Cassie Coppersmith Challenges Archaeological Timeline With Ancient Precision Stonework

PowerfulJRE

Global architectural anomalies and high-precision stone carving prove advanced pre-glacial civilizations were wiped out by cataclysmic events before recorded history.

AI-assisted summary of Joe Rogan Experience #2528 - Cassie Coppersmith — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2026-07-21

Detailed notes

## Background This video was published on YouTube by the PowerfulJRE channel on July 21, 2026. The page description outlines an interview with Cassie Coppersmith, an independent researcher studying ancient civilizations and archaeological mysteries who also hosts the "Secrets in Stone" podcast.

## TL;DR Host Joe Rogan and guest Cassie Coppersmith explore anomalies in ancient stonework, challenging traditional academic timelines across sites in India, Egypt, Peru, and Cambodia. They discuss high-precision artifacts, mysterious lathe-turned pillars, and evidence of lost ancient technologies alongside global flood mythologies. The conversation also examines anomalous elongated human skulls, institutional dogmatism in archaeology, and how cataclysmic events like the Younger Dryas wiped out pre-historic civilizations.

## Atmosphere & style The session carries an intellectually inquisitive, speculative, and deeply collaborative atmosphere, driven by mutual fascination with unexplained human history. Rogan brings his signature candor and conversational humor, acting as an energetic sounding board as Coppersmith presents detailed observations from her field research. The mood swings between critical skepticism of mainstream academic gatekeeping and a grounded, awe-inspired appreciation for the vastness of deep time and lost ancient engineering.

## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=0s) High-precision ancient stone artifacts, such as Liangzhu jade culture's cong tubes and bi discs, showcase advanced craftsmanship that challenges mainstream explanations of simple string-and-abrasive carving methods. - [05:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=353s) Many ancient monuments exhibit layers of usurpation and modification, where later rulers added crude inscriptions or face icons over far more sophisticated, pre-existing high-relief stone carvings. - [13:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=818s) Ancient sites across India, Peru, and Cambodia feature dark, hyper-precise, lathe-turned pillars and massive megalithic blocks that appear to have been repurposed into much cruder, newer stone settings. - [20:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1255s) Mainstream archaeological timelines heavily rely on inscriptional 'graffiti' left by kings, even though translated inscriptions often describe placing statues or lingams in pre-existing structures rather than building them. - [23:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1390s) Core architectural layers at global megalithic sites exhibit distinct regional styles—such as clinical in Egypt, pillowy in Peru, and heavily carved in India—and likely predate the Younger Dryas impact or global flood events. - [24:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1489s) The Kailasa Temple at Ellora was excavated top-down from a single basalt cliff face with millions of tons of stone removed without leaving local debris, making traditional construction timelines using basic tools mathematically improbable. - [26:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1591s) Institutional dogmatism and academic gatekeeping historically suppress alternative theories until overwhelming physical evidence—such as pre-Clovis footprints at White Sands or water erosion on the Sphinx—forces a paradigm shift. - [34:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2071s) Anomalous elongated skulls found worldwide, particularly from Paracas, display up to 30% larger brain capacity, distinct cranial anatomy lacking sagittal sutures, and differing eye socket placement compared to normal headboarding practices. - [59:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3550s) LiDAR and remote sensing technologies are drastically changing archaeology by uncovering massive hidden urban structures, mound grids, and ancient reservoirs beneath dense jungles in Cambodia and the Amazon. - [02:08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7705s) Cataclysmic events like the Toba supervolcano bottleneck and the Younger Dryas impact wiped out global populations and megafauna, leaving ancient stone architecture, geometry, and oral myths as the primary surviving records of lost advanced history.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=0s) Precision Artifacts of the Liangzhu Culture

Joe Rogan welcomes independent researcher Cassie Coppersmith, host of the *Secrets in Stone* podcast, after discovering her content through Derek's YouTube channel *Megalithic Marvels*. Their conversation zeroes in on mysterious ancient Chinese jade artifacts associated with the Liangzhu culture—dated securely by archaeologists to roughly 3,400 BC, putting them on a similar timeline to early Egyptian graves. Coppersmith recounts first encountering these artifacts on display at the British Museum, where an entire wall of nephrite jade pieces stood out for their impossible machine-like precision and geometric symmetry.

The two main forms discussed are **cong tubes** (cylindrical on the inside and square on the outside) and **bi discs** (large, circular, doughnut-like stone rings that are flat on top). While crude copies exist throughout history, the highly precise originals were found packed by the thousands inside Liangzhu tombs. Coppersmith theorizes that, much like the hard-stone diorite vases found in early Egyptian graves, these refined jade objects were either inherited or discovered by the Liangzhu culture, who treasured them as sacred grave goods.

* Nephrite jade is an extremely hard stone, ranking around 6 to 7 on the Mohs scale (similar to diorite, where diamond is a 10). * Mainstream archaeological explanations contend these artifacts were carved using strings coated in abrasives (like sand), along with copper tools, stone hammers, and bamboo drills. * A noted 1930s experiment showed that using string and abrasive media to cut through a basketball-sized piece of jade took an entire week of nonstop labor.

> "The explanation doesn't make a lot of sense... If you look at the lines as it's drilling down, they're thick and they don't look the same. If you look at the ones in the actual artifact, they're extremely tight... that looks like a machine."

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[05:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=353s) The "King of Jade" Cong and Erasure of Ancient High Relief

Examining high-resolution imagery of a 9-inch bi disc and various cong tubes, Rogan and Coppersmith point out clear drill marks indicating the central holes were bored from both sides until meeting in the middle. The most puzzling piece to Coppersmith is the famous **"King of Jade" Cong**—a massive 15-pound carved artifact from Liangzhu. She notes that the detailed face icon widely associated with the Liangzhu culture appears as fine, shallow scratches etched right over an earlier, highly sophisticated raised high-relief stone carving.

This leads to a discussion on the widespread historical practice of rulers usurping older monuments. Rogan compares it to Egyptian pharaohs like Ramesses II—whom he jokingly refers to as "King Selfie"—who routinely carved their own cartouches onto much older sarcophagi and structures to claim ultimate credit.

* The "King of Jade" cong features fine scratch marks laid directly over a distinct, pre-existing high-relief relief pattern. * Alternative historians argue that if the original artisans possessed the technology to shape hard nephrite jade into perfectly square 90-degree geometric tubes, they would not have settled for crude surface scratches to decorate them.

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[09:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=591s) "Secrets in Stone" and Evidence of Global High Technology

Coppersmith explains that her channel *Secrets in Stone* is built around the idea that ancient stonework speaks for itself if you look past surface-level assumptions. She emphasizes that archaeologists often stop digging or date entire sites based on shallow carbon testing or late-stage inscriptions left by subsequent kings. When examining megalithic structures globally, the lowest, oldest layers consistently display the highest level of craftsmanship, while the upper, newer layers look like crude attempts to copy what was underneath.

Rather than focusing solely on heavily studied locations like Egypt, Peru, or Turkey, Coppersmith travels to overlooked regions such as India, Cambodia, and Thailand. She argues that establishing a compelling case for a forgotten, technologically advanced era requires gathering thousands of comparative examples worldwide—such as identical megalithic wall styles and mystery stone "nubs"—rather than relying on a few isolated anomalies.

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[13:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=818s) Machined Pillars and Stone Lathes in Southern India

The conversation shifts to India's extraordinary ancient sites, beginning with the monolithic Kailasa Temple at Ellora. Rogan recalls how an invading army once spent years attempting to smash and destroy the temple, yet barely made a dent in its massive structure. He mentions a radical theory suggesting laser technology might have been involved, to which Coppersmith highlights physical evidence of advanced machinery she recently examined firsthand at the Hoysala temples and Hampi in southern India.

At the Hoysala sites, massive stone pillars measuring several feet across feature distinct lathe-turning grooves. While mainstream archaeologists concede that the pillars were turned on a lathe, they maintain these heavy stone columns were rotated using human or animal power. Coppersmith describes seeing heavy stone end-plates and mounting fixtures at Hampi that closely resemble the structural beds and chucks needed to hold and spin multi-ton stone pillars horizontally during high-speed precision lathing.

* The Hoysala temple pillars exhibit uniform circular lathe marks cut into hard stone across large multi-foot diameters. * Modern consensus accepts that the columns were turned on lathes, but attributes the mechanical force strictly to ancient human or draft-animal power. * Unlabeled stone artifacts at Hampi appear to represent the industrial end-plates and mounting rigs used for large-scale lathing operations.

[17:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1029s) Precision Stone Engineering and Lath-Turned Pillars

Joe Rogan and Cassie Coppersmith examine photos of the intricately carved, massive stone pillars at Indian temple sites such as the Kopeshwar Temple (Kopeshwar Mahadev) in Khidrapur. Rogan expresses awe at the sheer beauty and scale of the pillars, observing how immensely tall and heavy they are compared to a person. Coppersmith explains that many of these southern Indian pillars were carved from chlorite schist (commonly referred to as soapstone), which is softer when quarried and hardens after being exposed to the air, though some turned pillars are solid granite.

Rogan marvels at the extreme geometric precision, asking if anyone has thoroughly analyzed how uniform and tight the individual pieces are. Examining the lathe-turned pillars in the Sabha Mandapa (assembly hall), Jamie pulls up details showing that the pillars feature tight alignment and high geometric precision without the use of mortared joints. They note how the marks show where the lathe started at the bottom and stopped at the top, prompting Rogan to scoff at official summaries describing it merely as work that "resembles" machine-turned engineering.

* The pillars are carved from chlorite schist (soapstone) or granite, standing over twice human height. * Soapstone is quarried in a softer state and hardens over time once exposed to the air. * The Sabha Mandapa at Kopeshwar Temple features lathe-turned pillars with consistent spacing so that the open ceiling oculus remains perfectly centered. * The structure relies on interlocking stone and gravity for stability rather than mortar.

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[20:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1255s) Misattributed Timelines and Inscriptional "Graffiti"

Coppersmith highlights a striking anomaly found inside these temples: older, hyper-precise, dark lathe-turned pillars appear to have been moved into newer, much cruder stone settings. She points out that while the center core represents the original ancient megalithic work, the surrounding stonework above and below is crude and mismatched. When Rogan asks why mainstream historians attribute these structures to 1200–1500 AD, Coppersmith explains that dates are assigned almost entirely based on inscriptional evidence left by ruling kings.

Rogan dismisses these inscriptions as mere "graffiti," pointing out that placing a name on a pre-existing building does not prove you built it. Coppersmith shares her research on temple inscriptions in Cambodia, noting that when translated directly from Sanskrit and French, the kings rarely claimed to have built the temples; rather, they wrote about installing a lingam or bringing a statue to an existing site. She argues that archaeologists make an unjustified leap by attributing full construction to these later rulers, putting words in their mouths.

> "When you read what the kings actually wrote, very seldom do they say, 'I, king so-and-so, built this.' What they say is, 'I installed a lingam... I brought a statue to this temple.' And so the archaeologists make a fairly big jump..."

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[23:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1390s) Pre-Flood Civilizations and Global Architectural Styles

Coppersmith shares her belief that the oldest core layers of these sites are pre-flood, dating back more than 12,000 years, and that India, Egypt, and Peru represent some of the most ancient civilizations on Earth. She posits that while these distinct regions likely belonged to a global communication network—given shared global themes—their architecture reflected totally different localized styles.

She contrasts Egypt's clinical, minimalist block style (seen in structures like the Osireion) with Peru's playful, pillowy stone blocks and India's heavily carved, decorative surfaces. Coppersmith argues that specific geographic locations have served as sacred magnets for thousands of years, leading to generation after generation building on top of older megalithic foundations.

* **Egypt:** Clinical style featuring massive, plain stone blocks with minimal surface decoration (e.g., Osireion). * **Peru:** Playful, rounded, "pillowy" megalithic stonework. * **India:** Intricately carved, highly decorated stone surfaces from top to bottom. * **Timeline hypothesis:** Core megalithic sites predate 12,000 BP (pre-Younger Dryas/pre-flood).

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[24:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1489s) The Mystery of Kailasa Temple and Disappearing Rock

The conversation shifts to the Kailasa Temple at Ellora, a site Rogan admits to being obsessed with. Rogan points out that thousands of years after its supposed construction, the monolithic temple shows virtually zero erosion, meaning it will likely look identical thousands of years into the future. He argues that trying to reconstruct who built it based on later historical inscriptions is pure guesswork, and relying solely on a stray artifact found in the dirt does a deep disservice to the complexity of the site.

Rogan and Coppersmith discuss the immense physical feat of carving Kailasa top-down directly out of a basalt cliffside. They highlight the unexplained mystery of the missing spoil: millions of tons of excavated stone were removed from the mountain side, yet no massive debris piles or waste fields exist anywhere in the surrounding area.

* Kailasa Temple was excavated directly out of a single basalt rock cliff face from the top down. * Millions of tons of excavated rock were entirely moved away, leaving no local stone dump or debris piles behind.

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[26:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1591s) Institutional Dogma and Academic Gatekeeping

Rogan and Coppersmith unpack why mainstream academia resists alternative historical timelines. While Coppersmith expresses some sympathy for field archaeologists who can only rely on dated potsherds and cultural layers, Rogan highlights the rigid, career-destroying hierarchy of university gatekeepers. They discuss how senior academics defend their life's work and grants with vicious hostility against any findings that challenge their established narratives.

Rogan uses the "Clovis First" paradigm as a classic example of academic dogmatism. He recounts how early researchers who claimed humans arrived in the Americas before the Clovis culture were ridiculed and destroyed by their peers, only for modern discoveries—such as the 22,000+ year-old fossilized human footprints in White Sands, New Mexico—to prove them right by tens of thousands of years. Coppersmith adds that junior archaeologists working within this system face immense pressure to stay silent to protect their jobs and paychecks.

> "Imagine if you're a PhD student and you're like, 'I think you guys are wrong.' Well, you're fucked forever... Imagine the timeline of human history is so controversial that you're worried that it would ruin your career if you spoke accurately..."

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[30:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1810s) Gobekli Tepe, the Sphinx, and the Human Quest for Origins

Rogan notes how anomalous discoveries like Göbekli Tepe completely shatter the conventional timeline of human civilization. Göbekli Tepe features massive, concentrically arranged stone pillars with complex 3D relief carvings that were deliberately buried over 11,000 years ago—5,000 years before complex civilization was supposed to exist. He mocks the mainstream attempt to hand-wave this achievement by claiming hunter-gatherers built massive megaliths in their spare time between hunting antelopes. Coppersmith points out that despite Göbekli Tepe being accepted, institutions stubbornly refuse to re-evaluate or re-date other global sites like those in Egypt.

They discuss Dr. Robert Schoch's geological analysis of the Great Sphinx of Giza, which identifies heavy, vertical water erosion fissures caused by thousands of years of prolonged rainfall—placing its creation back to at least 9,000+ years ago during the Green Sahara period. Rogan emphasizes that because the Sphinx was buried under desert sand for much of its recent history, wind and sand could not have created those deep rainfall fissures. Coppersmith concludes that shutting down these open inquiries hurts humanity's deep-seated desire to know its true origins, comparing it to how people use services like 23andMe to find a sense of belonging and connection to their past.

* **Göbekli Tepe:** Confirmed to be at least 11,000+ years old with 3D relief carvings, built thousands of years prior to the accepted emergence of settled agrarian civilization. * **Sphinx Water Erosion:** Dr. Robert Schoch's geological evidence demonstrates heavy precipitation-induced erosion, dating the core excavation of the Sphinx enclosure to at least 7000–9000 BC.

[33:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1991s) The mainstream narrative and the mystery of Sacsayhuamán

Joe Rogan reflects on humanity's desire to enforce a specific narrative about history, even when faced with significant missing links. He finds it almost funny how stubborn mainstream academics can be when clinging to established timelines. Rather than stifling curiosity, Rogan argues this rigidness has only opened the door for independent researchers like Derek, Graham Hancock, Ben van Kerkwyk (UnchartedX), Jimmy Corsetti (Bright Insight), and Luke Caverns to produce detailed content uncovering archaeological enigmas.

He points specifically to Luke Caverns' work in South America, challenging anyone to explain away sites like Sacsayhuamán in Peru. Rogan highlights the baffling nature of the site's massive stone architecture, where 20-foot-tall stones fit together like intricate jigsaw puzzles. Built without known steel tools or heavy machinery, the stones appear as if they were melted directly into position. Cassie Coppersmith agrees, remarking that the stonework resembles "a melted marshmallow stacked on top of a melted marshmallow."

* **Key Independent Researchers Mentioned:** Graham Hancock, Ben van Kerkwyk, Jimmy Corsetti, Luke Caverns, and Derek. * **Architectural Features of Sacsayhuamán:** 20-foot-tall, massive interlocking stones cut without modern machinery or steel, giving the visual appearance of melted stone.

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[34:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2071s) Elongated skulls, brain volume, and head binding

The conversation shifts to the phenomenon of anomalous elongated skulls found in South America and across the globe. Rogan notes that these skulls are not simple hoaxes; they feature a brain capacity 20% to 30% larger than a standard human skull. Coppersmith adds that she has personally seen elongated skulls in four different countries.

They distinguish between true anomalous skulls and those created through artificial cranial deformation (cradle headboarding). While head binding using boards on infants' heads was a widespread historical practice, Rogan and Coppersmith question *why* ancient cultures did it. They argue that headboarding was likely an attempt to emulate an actual elite class or separate human species that naturally possessed these features. True anomalous skulls—particularly those found in Paracas, Peru—exhibit larger facial structures, increased brain volume, thicker bones, and lack the sagittal suture down the middle of the cranium.

> "It's clearly human or some form of human, but it has more brain volume and it's built different than us. And everybody's like, 'I don't see anything.'" — **Joe Rogan**

* **Key Biological Differences:** 20% to 30% larger brain capacity, absence of a sagittal suture, larger facial structure, and altered spinal attachment points. * **Cultural Context:** Cradle headboarding was practiced by elites, pharaohs, and kings to mimic the natural appearance of a distinct, high-status group. * **Recent Hominid Discoveries:** Rogan compares these findings to other recently acknowledged hominids like Denisovans, Neanderthals, and *Homo longi* ("Dragon Man" / "Dragon Man / big-headed man" found in China).

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[36:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2191s) Speculations on enhanced brain capacity and miniature English skeletons

Rogan and Coppersmith speculate on what an additional 20% to 30% brain capacity might allow a hominid species to achieve. Referencing films like *Limitless* (starring Bradley Cooper) and *Lucy* (starring Scarlett Johansson), they ponder whether these individuals possessed heightened cognitive capabilities, telepathy, or the ability to move heavy stones using sound or mind power.

Coppersmith shares details about small-bodied elongated skulls discovered in England, specifically at Avebury—one of the largest prehistoric stone circles. Researcher Maria Wheatley has documented these remains, which feature disproportionately large skulls on tiny bodies. Coppersmith suggests these physical remains may have directly inspired local folklore regarding fairies.

* **Avebury Discoveries:** Small skeletons with massive elongated skulls housed at the local museum in Avebury, England. * **Researcher Reference:** Maria Wheatley, who writes extensively about anomalous skull findings in Britain. * **Anatomy Notes:** Skulls exhibit altered ear positioning, unusually large eye sockets, and a flattened rear cranial structure where the spine connects differently to distribute the head's weight.

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[40:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2433s) Trepanation and the self-drilling case study

As Jamie pulls up images of ancient skulls, Coppersmith points out large, clean holes in the crania, identifying them as evidence of trepanation—an ancient surgical procedure where holes were drilled or scraped into the skull. She explains a theory suggesting that because these large-brained individuals lacked flexible cranial sutures, their skulls fused completely as they grew. Trepanation may have been performed to relieve intracranial pressure or restore lost cognitive/telepathic abilities caused by a fully closed skull.

This prompts Rogan to recall Amanda Feilding (the Countess of Wemyss and March), a prominent advocate for trepanation who famously performed the procedure on herself using a drill to increase cerebral blood flow and alter consciousness. Jamie confirms that Feilding passed away roughly a year prior, and the group reflects on her life and her glowing descriptions of the experience.

> "You're probably not going to get a doctor to sign up for that." — **Joe Rogan** (on performing self-trepanation to align chakras or alter consciousness)

* **Surgical Evidence:** Ancient trepanation holes often show bone healing, proving patients survived the procedure. * **Amanda Feilding:** Self-trepanation practitioner and consciousness researcher discussed by Rogan and Jamie; passed away around 2023/2024.

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[43:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2608s) Examining skull photos and online search frustrations

While attempting to pull up specific high-resolution images of Paracas skulls without sagittal sutures, Jamie expresses frustration with recent changes to Google's search interface, which pushes users toward AI-generated summaries rather than clean image results. Rogan jokes that Google is deliberately sabotaging the search to force AI adoption.

Once they navigate to the correct images, Rogan and Coppersmith analyze a striking skull featuring massive eye sockets and an enormous cranial vault. Rogan argues that mainstream media like *The New York Times* ignores these finds because acknowledging them would rewrite human evolutionary history. They review various facial reconstructions, noting how some portrayals minimize the dramatic, non-human proportions of the eye sockets and head shape.

* **Red Hair Artifacts:** Coppersmith notes that a significant number of the elongated mummies and skulls preserved in South America possess natural red hair. * **Image Analysis:** The group scrutinizes several museum samples, pointing out that true anomalous skulls feature eye sockets positioned significantly differently than modern humans, alongside a dramatic backward extension of the skull vault.

### [048:21] Elongated Skulls, Missing Skeletons, and the Black Market Joe Rogan and Cassie Coppersmith continue their discussion on anomalous human-like skulls with massive braincases, marveling at the reality of these physical specimens. Coppersmith points out that Malta is the only museum in the world she has visited with explicit displays suggesting an alien origin, featuring posters highlighting the absence of the sagittal suture alongside depicted alien images. In contrast, museums in southern Peru tend to tuck their elongated skulls away in darkened cases to prevent visitors from easily photographing them.

The conversation shifts to the broader issue of missing ancient artifacts and the lucrative black market catering to wealthy collectors. Rogan notes how government-salaried workers can easily profit by smuggling out vases or artifacts. Coppersmith highlights documented cases where whole human skeletons discovered in sarcophagi decades ago have suddenly disappeared from official records, leading to mainstream institutions claiming no such remains exist.

- Rogan points out that if the bodies belonging to these elongated skulls were proportionally sized, the individuals would have stood 7 to 8 feet tall. - Coppersmith notes that giant lore is present in nearly every ancient civilization across the world, including biblical texts, which she views as historical memory rather than mere myth.

### [050:56] The Imperfection of the Fossil Record and Academic Dogma Rogan emphasizes the extreme rarity of fossilization, explaining that human bones are almost guaranteed to be absorbed by the earth without leaving a trace after a few thousand years. Exceptional conditions—such as the deep permafrost at his friend John Reeves' "Boneyard" property in Alaska—are required to preserve organic remains over tens of thousands of years. Reeves continues to unearth unexpected ice-age fauna at his site, forcing researchers to reconsider which animals, such as unique bear and cat species, inhabited the region.

The discussion turns to mainstream academia's reluctance to reconsider historical timelines. While mainstream dogmatists reject non-traditional dates for ancient sites, Rogan praises a new generation of independent content creators and researchers—such as Michael Button and Jimmy Corsetti—who use platforms like YouTube to present balanced, thorough research. Rogan criticizes critics who attempt to dismiss alternative archaeological theories by labeling them as "racist," clarifying that acknowledging ancient engineering capabilities is a source of pride for those cultures' descendants rather than a denial of their heritage.

- Rogan mentions geologist Dr. Robert Schoch, whose tenured position and hard geological evidence regarding water erosion on the Great Sphinx provided a scientifically solid challenge to conventional Egyptology. - Independent researcher Ben van Kerkwyk's work on the bases of Egyptian pyramids demonstrates multiple distinct layers of construction, with the oldest layers showing immense, heavy erosion.

### [056:06] The Enigmas and Multi-Layered History of Angkor Wat Coppersmith shares her extensive field research in Cambodia, focusing on the massive pyramid temples in the immediate Angkor Wat area. Mainstream orthodoxy dates these structures to between 900 AD and 1300 AD, yet the physical stone exhibits severe, ancient weather patterns down their sides similar to those found in Egypt. She notes that the main core of Angkor Wat features three distinct structural layers, with the innermost section housing five central towers that appear almost melted.

As one moves outward from the center of the complex, the iconography transitions from religious deities to war scenes, elephants, and battles. This shift indicates that successive cultures expanded upon an exceptionally old core structure over time. Despite clear physical evidence of rebuilds and ancient weathering, traditional institutions remain unwilling to entertain dates prior to 800 AD.

- There are eight massive pyramid structures located within the immediate Angkor Wat complex. - The 218 giant carved faces at the Bayon Temple represent a completely distinct style of multi-stone block construction compared to other regional sites.

### [059:10] LiDAR Discoveries and the Scale of Cambodian Earthworks Coppersmith details the groundbreaking 2012 LiDAR survey conducted over the Angkor region, which unveiled massive hidden structures beneath the dense jungle canopy. The imagery revealed vast, hidden mound fields—including a 10-by-10 grid of 30-foot-wide mounds stretching a mile long—as well as mile-long spiral embankments south of the main moat, none of which have a clear academic explanation.

The survey also highlighted the immense scale of the region's artificial reservoirs, known as barays. The Western Baray is a hand-cut reservoir measuring 8 kilometers in length by 2 kilometers wide—large enough to be seen from space and easily visible alongside modern airport infrastructure.

- Excavating the Western Baray required moving approximately 138 million cubic meters of earth, the equivalent volume of 53 Great Pyramids of Giza. - Though officially dated to around 900 AD and attributed strictly to rice irrigation, the sheer scale and engineering required to dig and retain these barays remain largely unexplained.

### [01:02:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3771s) Mathematical Anomalies of the Kailasa Temple Rogan brings up calculations generated via Perplexity regarding the Kailasa Temple in Ellora, India. Traditional accounts claim that a workforce of 250 people carved the colossal monolith out of solid rock over a span of five and a half years. Rogan highlights the sheer mathematical improbability of removing that volume of solid basalt with basic hand tools within such a short timeframe.

The immense durability and scale of the structure is further underscored by historical accounts of later attempts to destroy it. A massive force spent three full years attempting to demolish the Kailasa Temple using period tools, only to give up after making virtually no progress against the rock structure.

[01:04:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3847s) Kings, Destruction, and the Mysteries of Cambodia

After briefly marveling at the destructive, spiteful impulses of historical monarchs who tried for years to tear down ancient monuments, Joe Rogan and Cassie Coppersmith shift focus to Cambodia. Coppersmith explains that Cambodia remains one of the most mysteriously underrated archaeological landscapes on Earth. Her personal interest began three years prior during a planned trek to Vietnam's Son Doong Cave—the largest cave in the world—when she decided to add a one-week stopover in Cambodia. Hiring local guides to hear the official historical narrative, she quickly realized the prevailing academic explanations failed to align with physical evidence on the ground.

Mainstream history claims early local populations first constructed structures out of brick before eventually developing the technology to build with massive stones. However, direct observation shows heavy stone pyramids forming the foundational base, with brick structures stacked on top. This stratigraphy indicates that the stone core is actually older, completely reversing the accepted chronological sequence.

* **Son Doong Cave:** Located in Vietnam; famous for being the largest cave in the world. * **Structural Anomaly:** Brickwork built directly on top of massive stone pyramids, contradicting mainstream claims of architectural evolution from brick to stone.

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[01:05:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3948s) LiDAR Discoveries on the Phnom Kulen Plateau

Coppersmith highlights how LiDAR technology revolutionized Cambodian archaeology around 2012 by exposing vast, hidden urban networks beneath the dense jungle canopy. On the Phnom Kulen plateau—the very site where sandstone was quarried to build Angkor Wat—LiDAR uncovered a massive, previously unknown city complete with pyramids, 2,000-acre reservoirs, mound fields, and expansive causeways. Despite these groundbreaking revelations, Coppersmith points out that major mainstream outlets largely overlooked the discovery.

Among the stranger features revealed by LiDAR are mile-long, perfectly symmetrical spiral embankments located on the south side of Angkor Wat. Archaeologists have offered tentative theories, suggesting they were decorative garden features or fishing structures, but Coppersmith finds these explanations inadequate. Instead, she hypothesizes that these massive earthworks were part of a sophisticated, region-wide water-management system. Water was channeled from the Phnom Kulen Mountains roughly 50 miles away through 16-kilometer diversion canals, passing through mound fields and giant reservoirs connected directly to central pyramids and temples. She believes this monumental industrial system was engineered either for energy generation or to structure water for agriculture, human consumption, and elevated states of consciousness.

* **Phnom Kulen Plateau:** Sandstone quarry source located approximately 50 miles from Angkor Wat; hidden city discovered atop it via LiDAR in 2012. * **Spiral Embankments:** Perfectly symmetrical earthen spirals measuring 1 mile long and 0.5 miles wide on Angkor Wat’s south side. * **Infrastructure Scale:** Features 16-kilometer diversion channels feeding into 2,000-acre reservoirs centered around central pyramids and temples.

---

[01:08:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4104s) Analyzing LiDAR Patterns and Ancient Engineering

Looking closely at LiDAR scans on-screen, Rogan and Coppersmith examine the massive, perfectly symmetrical geometric patterns surrounding Angkor Wat. Coppersmith points out that during the Khmer Empire—the civilization credited with building the entire complex—a wide moat was dug directly through the middle of these ancient spiral earthworks. This destructive overlap strongly suggests the Khmer did not even realize the structures existed beneath the soil and foliage, indicating the original earthworks belong to an far older, intensely sophisticated civilization.

Coppersmith shares her experience exploring the site alongside researcher Derek Olson. Walking the terrain on foot, the scale is so massive (with individual mounds spanning 30 feet across) that human eyes at ground level cannot perceive the artificial patterns—it simply feels like subtle variations in terrain. Only aerial LiDAR imaging reveals the staggering layout hidden beneath the jungle canopy. She contrasts the durability of these ancient structures with the later, inferior Khmer constructions. While newer temples like Ta Prohm (famous for appearing in *Lara Croft: Tomb Raider*) are being actively torn apart by massive tree roots, the ancient stone pyramids excavated in the 1920s remained fully intact.

> "Every inch of ancient Cambodia is engineered."

* **Koh Ker Site:** Located ~200 miles northeast of Angkor Wat; features a man-made 7-kilometer dam creating a 2,000-acre reservoir. * **Ta Prohm:** Known as the "Lara Croft Temple"; iconic for giant tree roots overgrowing and collapsing its comparatively fragile masonry. * **Excavation Contrast:** Ancient core pyramids excavated in the 1920s were found completely structurally intact despite centuries of jungle encroachment.

---

[01:12:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4330s) The De-evolution of Art and Flaws in Carbon Dating

Examining photos of Angkor Wat's innermost enclosures, Rogan and Coppersmith discuss the radical shift in artwork from the center of the complex out to its perimeter. The central towers showcase breathtakingly precise 3D stone carvings of spiritual deities, executed with such deep undercut relief that one can slide a paper wrapper entirely behind the sculpted stone. As one moves outward toward the newer, exterior layers, the iconography transitions entirely into violent battle scenes and warfare. Coppersmith notes that this exact artistic decline is seen in ancient Indian sites, serving as physical evidence for the Yuga cycles—the theory that human consciousness peaked around 12,000 years ago and has steadily devolved since.

When Rogan asks about official dating methods, Coppersmith details the deep flaws of relying on carbon dating for stone monuments. Because stone cannot be carbon-dated, researchers test organic material like wooden lintels or charcoal found in repair layers. In many instances, carbon-dated wood samples return dates significantly older than the academic consensus for the site itself. Furthermore, archaeologists frequently date un-inscribed temples purely through stylistic association with a single inscribed building, creating a fragile circular logic.

* **Angkor Wat Outer Limits:** Mainstream consensus claims construction began around 1113 CE, taking 300,000 workers roughly 30 years without reaching completion. * **Koh Ker (Prasat Prang):** Oldest accepted pyramid in Cambodia, officially dated to ~800 CE, yet wooden repair samples yield dates from the 600s CE. * **Artistic Shift:** High-relief spiritual imagery dominates the core towers, while outer walls feature flat, violent war motifs.

---

[01:16:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4600s) The 1,000-Ton Bahubali Statue of Shravanabelagola

Coppersmith shifts to her recent fieldwork in India, sharing photos of the most astonishing monolithic achievement she has personally inspected: the statue of Bahubali at Shravanabelagola. Weighing an estimated 1,000 tons and standing 60 feet tall atop a granite mountain, it is the largest standing ancient statue in the world. Carved out of pure white granite with absolute geometric perfection, its fine details include perfectly smooth lips, intricate fingernails, and ears measuring 5.5 feet in length.

While debate exists over whether the massive stone was transported or carved *in situ*, Coppersmith believes it was carved directly out of the mountain's summit peak ("living stone"). The statue depicts the Jain figure Bahubali, who attained enlightenment by standing completely motionless for an entire year until ant hills formed at his feet and climbing vines wrapped around his legs. Coppersmith emphasizes the profound contrast between ruined archeological sites and India's "living temples," which remain vibrant, active places of community worship cared for over millennia.

* **Statue Dimensions:** 60 feet tall, weighing approximately 1,000 tons; sculpted from solid white granite. * **Anatomical Scale:** Ears alone measure 5.5 feet long with zero visible tool marks or geometric flaws. * **Cultural Context:** Represents the Jain deity Bahubali; situated at the top of a granite hill in Karnataka, India.

[01:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4800s) Inscriptions on Ancient Monuments and the Claiming of Cambodian Temples

Cassie Coppersmith and Joe Rogan review imagery of a massive ancient standing statue. Cassie highlights that despite the statue appearing as though it were carved yesterday with incredible precision, mainstream archaeologists attribute it to around 980 AD. The main rationale behind this timeline is the presence of unsophisticated, rough inscriptions at its base. Cassie argues that these crude carvings contrast sharply with the actual craftsmanship of the monument, describing them as looking "really shitty" and "clunky" compared to the sheer grandness of the artwork itself.

To explain this disparity, Cassie presents text regarding Khmer kings and their temple-building habits at places like Angkor Wat. To establish legitimacy, secure political office, and claim divine protection, a Khmer king had to prove that the gods favored him over his predecessors and enemies. He achieved this by claiming or building the grandest temple possible. Cassie posits that early kings ventured into the region, found highly sophisticated, pre-existing ancient structures—including pyramids, reservoirs (*barays*), and sites like the red sandstone temple Banteay Srei—and simply carved their names onto them to claim ownership. Only after all the masterworks were claimed did later rulers begin constructing newer, less refined monuments like Bayon Temple using smaller stones.

- Mainstream attribution for the statue's date (~980 AD) relies almost entirely on crude base inscriptions. - Khmer political legitimacy required kings to control the grandest temple to prove divine favor. - Cassie's theory: Cambodian rulers first claimed pre-existing ancient pyramids and fine temples before building their own inferior structures.

---

[01:22:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4937s) Machine-Like Symmetry, Immense Scale, and the Mystery of Mount Rushmore

Examining the giant white granite statue in closer detail, Rogan points out how bad the base inscriptions look in comparison to the majestic scale of the figure. The statue features an ear larger than a full-grown human and a toe that measures three feet long. Cassie notes that the statue is almost perfectly symmetrical, suggesting it has the hallmarks of being machined—drawing a parallel to large, highly precise statues in Egypt. Rogan asks Jamie to zoom in on the neck of the statue, pointing out strange horizontal lines carved into it, which Cassie notes also appear on massive statues in both Cambodia and Egypt.

The discussion turns to how such monumental works could be created using only the iron chisels and hammers available in traditional historical timelines. Rogan brings up Mount Rushmore as the only modern equivalent in terms of sheer scale, though he and Cassie recognize Mount Rushmore was constructed in modern times using dynamite, jackhammers, and heavy machinery. Cassie emphasizes that this white granite statue sits atop a 650-foot mountain peak, making it visible from 50 miles away in every direction. Standing as the largest ancient standing statue in the world, its creation—whether carved from a giant pre-existing rock outcrop or transported up a mountain—remains a mind-boggling engineering achievement.

- **Scale**: Features a 3-foot-long toe and an ear larger than an adult human. - **Material**: Extremely hard white granite, carved in high symmetry. - **Location**: Situated on a 650-foot mountain peak, visible from up to 50 miles away. - **Parallels**: Distinctive neck lines and high precision match monolithic statues found in Egypt and Cambodia.

---

[01:26:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5177s) Spiritual Pilgrimages, Jain Mythology, and Ancient Cycles

Cassie shares her personal experience visiting the site, explaining that visitors must climb 650 steps barefoot because it remains an active, revered holy place. She jokes about needing "grippy socks" like those used in Pilates to navigate the hot, slippery stone steps on the way down. The statue continues to be a central site for Jain pilgrimages; every 12 years, major ceremonies are held where devotees build scaffolding around the head to pour libations like milk and honey over the monument. Cassie describes sitting in front of the statue with her brother for hours, feeling a palpable spiritual energy and feeling "healed" before having to leave for their flight.

This leads into a discussion about Jain cosmology and ancient human history. Cassie explains that Jain tradition speaks of vast half-cycles of time called *time-cycles* (and enlightened leaders known as *Tirthankaras*). According to these traditions, Bahubali (associated with the statue) was the son of the first enlightened being of this cycle, described in myth as being over a mile tall, millions of years old, and fully enlightened. Rogan and Cassie reflect on how ancient texts around the world—including Indian epics describing flying *vimanas* and weapons resembling nuclear bombs—frequently reference far-away golden ages and advanced concepts that blur the line between myth and lost history.

- **Rituals**: Every 12 years, devotees build scaffolding to pour milk and honey over the head of the statue. - **Pilgrimage**: Reaching the shrine requires a barefoot climb of 650 steps. - **Mythology**: Jain texts describe ancient half-cycles of time featuring giant, long-lived enlightened beings (*Tirthankaras*).

---

[01:29:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5350s) Massive Shiva Lingams, Energy Devices, and the Gatekeeping of History

Cassie brings up the concept of *Shiva lingams*, which are typically small stone structures representing combined male and female polarities found at the entrances of Indian temples. However, in places like Koh Ker and Phnom Bok in Cambodia, as well as Hampi in India, there are monumental lingams ranging from 20 to 40 feet high. She points out that these massive lingams are consistently situated in roofless shrines, face north, and are directly surrounded by water features. Pointing to ancient scripture that describes lingams as "infinite pillars of light and fire," Cassie speculates that these were not mere symbolic carvings, but functional devices—perhaps energy or power generators—that utilized water in a way modern history does not yet understand.

Rogan observes that modern humans tend to evaluate past technology solely through the lens of current developments, such as internal combustion engines and transistors. He argues that ancient civilizations might have pursued a completely different technological trajectory that yielded sophisticated results without being mechanical.

The conversation turns to why alternative historical timelines face intense pushback. Rogan and Cassie critique mainstream archaeologists for aggressively discrediting alternative researchers like Graham Hancock out of a desire to protect their own closely held beliefs and maintain an appeal to authority. They argue that humanity today is physically and mentally sicker than ever, and that admitting a superior, spiritually advanced "golden age" existed in the distant past contradicts the comforting modern narrative that society is at its historical peak.

> "If you can convince today's society that we are the best we've ever been, life is as good as it's ever been, that's much more palatable than 'we are as sick as we've ever been, we're as unhappy as we've ever been.'"

- **Structural Features**: Giant lingams (20–40 ft tall) face north, reside in roofless megalithic temples, and are always surrounded by water. - **Ancient Texts**: Describe Shiva lingams as "infinite pillars of light and fire." - **Critique of Archaeology**: Mainstream pushback against alternative history is driven by appeals to expertise and a bias toward the modern linear narrative of human progress.

[01:35:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5701s) Institutional Inertia and the Filippo Biondi Giza Discoveries

Joe Rogan and Cassie Coppersmith discuss the mainstream resistance to alternative archaeological theories. Coppersmith references Max Planck's famous adage about science progressing "one funeral at a time," applying it directly to archaeology, where an older generation of scholars must step aside before new paradigms can take hold. Rogan highlights how younger researchers and enthusiasts are using platforms like YouTube, reading new research papers, and examining radar scans—such as the subterranean work conducted under the pyramids by independent researcher Filippo Biondi—demanding real explanations. They emphasize that the satellite radar and scanning technologies used by researchers like Biondi are the exact same high-precision systems used to map deep underground infrastructure, such as particle colliders located 1.2 kilometers inside mountains. "If you trust the science, like, you've got to trust the science," Rogan notes, pointing out that if these readings are accurate, standard historical timelines will have to be completely rewritten.

``` GIZA PLATEAU LAYOUT (HYPOTHESIS) ================================

The conversation shifts to Biondi’s recent announcement regarding a potential second Sphinx on the Giza Plateau. Coppersmith explains that unlike proving subterranean voids beneath the Great Pyramids—which would require deep, complex excavation—testing the second Sphinx theory is comparatively straightforward because the target area is merely buried under a massive mound of sand.

* **The Italian Conference & AI Scans:** Biondi recently presented satellite and ground scans at a conference in Italy. He fed the spatial scan data into AI models, including Grok and Google Gemini, asking them to calculate the probability of the structure being an buried Sphinx; the models returned higher than an 80% probability. * **Origin of the Sand Mound:** When nearby tombs were excavated in the early 20th century, workers piled the displaced sand directly over the area west of the pyramids, unintentionally covering the site where Biondi believes the second Sphinx sits. * **Historical and Symbolic Context:** Historical traditions and texts like the Dream Stele mention paired Sphinxes. Geometrically, the proposed location on the west side of the Giza Plateau mirrors the existing Sphinx on the east side in relation to the main pyramids. * **Physical Voids:** Beyond the exterior shape, Biondi’s scans indicate internal cavities and chambers inside the proposed mound that match known structural chambers found within the primary Sphinx.

---

[01:39:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5970s) Historical Precedents and the Future of Archaeological Tech

Rogan and Coppersmith address mainstream media headlines dismissing the second Sphinx claims as "false viral rumors." Rogan pushes back, asking how critics can claim certainty without actually digging into the sand. He brings up historical photos showing how the known Sphinx was almost completely buried up to its neck in sand when Napoleon encountered it, demonstrating how easily massive stone monuments can be swallowed by the shifting desert landscape over thousands of years.

Coppersmith highlights how emerging technologies like satellite scanning, LiDAR, and AI data compilation will transform archaeology over the next decade. She shares her personal background working for a mining company, where LiDAR was routinely used alongside forestry and environmental surveying. By using AI to aggregate global earth-scanning data, researchers could automatically detect hidden ancient sites around the globe that were previously invisible under heavy vegetation or soil.

* **The Vesuvius Challenge:** Coppersmith and Rogan cite the Vesuvius Challenge, where high-resolution CT scans and AI algorithms read intact, charred scrolls from Herculaneum/Pompeii without unrolling them. * **Untranslated Heritage:** Vast collections of ancient texts remain untranslated—both lost scripts like Rongorongo from Easter Island and thousands of ignored, untranslated Sanskrit manuscripts.

> "I personally believe in the next 10 years there are going to be extraordinary discoveries that I think it's going to be very hard to argue that we need to at least reexamine our history."

---

[01:43:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6189s) Sacred Sites, Earth Energies, and the Wilderness Quest

Rogan and Coppersmith examine the "why" behind ancient construction, moving beyond simple engineering mechanics to discuss site selection. Coppersmith compares the Earth's key geological locations to human acupuncture points, suggesting ancient builders erected monuments on highly energetic spots where visitors report altered dream states, spontaneous healings, or immediate meditative states. Rogan agrees, noting that modern science often dismisses qualitative differences in geographic energy as mere variations in bedrock geology, while ignoring well-documented phenomena like forest bathing, grounding, and the psychological benefits of wilderness exposure.

Coppersmith shares a personal story about leaving her corporate career to embark on a four-day solo wilderness quest modeled after traditional Native American vision quests. She spent four days on a mountain with no food, no tent, no phone, and only three liters of water per day to recover from the burnout of corporate life.

* **Solitude and Silence:** Coppersmith explains that after three days without food, the mind becomes quiet, allowing a person to connect deeply with their inner self and nature. * **The All-Night Vigil:** On the final night, participants set up a ring of stones and keep an all-night vigil from sunset to sunrise, watching the constellations rotate overhead as a symbolic process of rebirth. * **Modern Distractions:** Rogan contrasts this experience with modern life, where daily mental capacity is constantly eroded by smartphones, TVs, and endless social media scrolling.

---

[01:48:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6485s) Archaeoastronomy and Archaic Precision

The discussion shifts to how ancient societies integrated celestial alignments directly into their stone architecture. Coppersmith points out that civilizations across the world—from the Aztecs to the Egyptians—encoded exact astronomical cycles into monumental stone. They constructed temples where sunlight penetrates narrow corridors or passes directly between massive stone pillars only on specific days, such as the summer or winter solstices.

Rogan expresses awe at the level of mathematical and observational discipline required to execute these alignments without modern tools, noting that hunter-gatherer or early agrarian societies managed to align massive multi-ton stones perfectly without missing by even a few inches. Coppersmith brings up Angkor Wat in Cambodia as a prime example, where on the spring equinox, the sun rises precisely over the tip of the central tower. They admire photos of crowd gatherings at these sites during equinox events, marveling at how ancient cultures embedded their deep understanding of the cosmos permanently in stone.

[01:50:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6608s) Human Disconnection, Chichén Itzá, and Misunderstood Ancient Timelines

The conversation opens with a reflection on what human life might look like if people weren't constantly inundated with modern noise—gaslighting, propaganda, invasive technology, materialism, and brand chasing. Cassie Coppersmith observes that people are deeply yearning for connection with each other, the Earth, and God. This lost connection is precisely why ancient sites around the globe hold such an alluring, awe-inspiring power over travelers today.

Joe Rogan and Coppersmith discuss the mysterious nature of ancient Mesoamerican sites, specifically Chichén Itzá. Both recall visiting the site in the late 1990s or early 2000s when tourists were still permitted to climb the central pyramid. The dialogue pivots to how modern societies regularly dismiss ancient claims. Modern historians attribute impressive monuments to the Aztecs, Incas, or Khmer, yet native traditions themselves often explicitly state that these structures were already built by earlier gods or predecessors.

They further explore ancient king lists across cultures—such as in Sumerian and Egyptian records—where early rulers were said to have reigned for thousands of years before lifespans abruptly dropped after a catastrophic flood. Coppersmith points out that while historians accept later figures on these lists as real historical figures, they casually dismiss earlier long-lived kings as pure mythology. A similar pattern appears in Jainism, where only the last two of the 24 Tirthankaras are officially recognized by modern archaeology because their lifespans fit standard history, while the earlier ones are said to have lived for millions of years and grown over a mile tall.

- Ancient Mexican mysteries mentioned include the Olmecs and the strange construction timelines of Mayan structures. - The Aztec and Inca traditions both explicitly claim that they inherited their most grand stone sites rather than building them from scratch. - Global traditions—including Sumerian, Egyptian, Hindu, Jain, and biblical accounts—consistently report ancient giants and extreme longevity before major societal resets.

---

[01:54:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6844s) The Book of Enoch, Nephilim, and Goliath's Real Height

The discussion shifts to apocryphal and extra-biblical texts, specifically the Book of Enoch. Rogan notes that Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna introduced him to the text, which details how the "Watchers" came down, mated with human women, and sired the Nephilim—a race of destructive giants who consumed everything before being wiped out in a global flood. Coppersmith notes that while canonical biblical texts only hint at these events, extra-biblical writings explore them in full detail.

Rogan and Coppersmith express amusement that rabbinical councils and church authorities excluded texts like the Book of Enoch, despite them being preserved alongside canonical works like the Book of Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran. They ponder how dramatically different modern religious instruction would feel if the Watchers and Nephilim were openly taught in Sunday school.

Turning to the famous story of David and Goliath, they look into textual variations surrounding Goliath's physical size. While later translations describe Goliath as being six cubits and a span (roughly 9 to 10 feet tall), earlier Greek translations and the Dead Sea Scrolls record him as four cubits and a span. This puts his height at approximately 6.5 to 7.5 feet—making him roughly the size of a modern elite basketball player rather than a mythical monster.

> "The Watchers came down and mated with the daughters of men and created the Nephilim... who were giants who destroyed and consumed everything and were wiped out by the flood."

- The Dead Sea Scrolls contained both canonical books like Isaiah and apocryphal works like the Book of Enoch together in the same Qumran caves. - Canonical Hebrew descriptions note that the Nephilim made regular humans feel "as if we are grasshoppers." - A modern contrast is noted: 20-year-old basketball player Olivier Rioux stands at 7'9", making him taller than the Dead Sea Scrolls' depiction of Goliath.

---

[01:57:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7041s) Biological Age Reversal, Immortal Kings, and Wise Elders

Rogan links ancient stories of extreme king lifespans to modern advancements in anti-aging and life-extension research. Scientists have already demonstrated techniques to reverse the age of skin cells, moving closer toward halting or reversing human biological aging. Rogan speculates that if an advanced civilization perfected life-extension technology in the past, rulers could easily have lived for hundreds or thousands of years, exactly as recorded on the Sumerian King List or Zep Tepi accounts.

The discussion touches on the philosophical implications of living for hundreds of years. Rogan suggests that extended lifespans could make humanity significantly wiser, provided people stay physically healthy. Most people waste their short lives on trivialities, only gaining real perspective as they age. If someone could retain the physical vitality of a 30-year-old while reaching 80 or 180 years of age, their accumulated life experience would offer unprecedented perspective.

Coppersmith raises the practical question of whether longer lifespans would simply mean working longer before retirement. Rogan counters that the concept of retirement stems primarily from people hating their jobs; those who love their work—such as comedian George Carlin, who toured until his death—have little desire to stop.

> "Back when I was 80, I thought I had it nailed. But now that I'm 180, now I see."

- Current longevity studies focus on cellular reprogramming and reversing the biological age of skin cells. - Ancient historical lists like the Sumerian King List feature reigns lasting thousands of years, which Rogan argues could reflect advanced biotech rather than pure allegory. - Sudden post-retirement mortality often stems from loss of purpose, existential dread, and psychological withdrawal.

---

[02:01:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7281s) Loneliness, Marriage Lifespans, and Tribal Belonging

The conversation turns to the emotional dynamics of aging, grief, and human survival. Rogan and Coppersmith talk about how elderly spouses frequently die shortly after losing their partner. Coppersmith shares that her grandfather passed away 15 years prior, whereas her grandmother is 93 and still thriving, noting that women often cope better with widowhood due to domestic independence and social resilience.

They discuss statistical findings showing that married men consistently live longer than unmarried men. Rogan jokingly remarks that single life often leads men toward unhealthy habits like "cocaine, hookers, burgers, and beer," but points out the deeper medical truth: chronic loneliness is measurably more damaging to health than cigarette smoking.

Finally, Rogan critiqued the modern romanticization of being a "loner." Humans are fundamentally pack animals, and solitary confinement remains the harshest punishment in prisons for a reason. Modern technology and mobility have disrupted traditional tribal structures, leaving people isolated on their phones with pseudo-communities that fail to satisfy the primal human need for real social cohesion.

- Studies indicate that chronic loneliness carries a mortality risk comparable to—or worse than—smoking cigarettes daily. - Statistical data confirms that married men enjoy a longer life expectancy compared to single or divorced men. - Modern lifestyle shifts mean people rarely live near their extended families, making true community building significantly harder than in past generations.

[02:04:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7457s) Spiritual Connection, Psychedelics, and the Eleusinian Mysteries

Joe Rogan and Cassie Coppersmith discuss the innate human drive to belong to tribes, whether political, ideological, or religious. Rogan notes that people willingly adopt specific clothing and behaviors to participate in shared community rituals, like kneeling in unison during worship. He argues that while this impulse can be destructive when misdirected, authentic sacred ceremony offers a profound connection to the cosmos. Coppersmith agrees "10,000%", attributing the modern resurgence of psychedelics to people attempting to unlock suppressed spiritual parts of themselves.

Rogan builds on this idea, referencing Brian Muraresku’s book *The Immortality Key* and recalling a personal trip to Greece where Muraresku guided his family through Eleusis. Rogan describes a surreal, grounding sensation while touching ancient stones where the Eleusinian Mysteries took place, lingering in quiet reflection while his teenage daughters—unimpressed by old rocks—wondered why their dad was holding a wall. He reflects on visiting the museum in Athens, marvelling at how ancient peoples lived two millennia ago and how difficult it is for modern humans to comprehend life in those distant eras.

Coppersmith shares her own experiences traveling to Easter Island and Cusco, Peru—both revered as "navels of the world" in local origin myths. She describes feeling intensely healed, energetic, and rested while visiting these locations:

> "When you're in these places, you have different dreams, you sleep really well, you feel just good... you feel like you're on peptides, you know? You just feel, 'Oh my gosh, I feel so healthy, I feel healed.'"

- **Key Locations:** Eleusis and Athens (Greece), Easter Island, Cusco (Peru). - **Key Concepts:** Eleusinian Mystery rites, ancient energy centers, psychedelic resurgence. - **Reference:** *The Immortality Key* by Brian Muraresku.

---

[02:08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7705s) The Deep Time Horizon and Lost Civilizations

The discussion shifts to why megalithic structures were constructed and how far back sophisticated human history extends. Coppersmith wonders if ancient monuments were intentionally designed to blow future minds and force modern humans to contemplate consciousness and species history. Rogan notes that modern infrastructure is superficial, ugly, and temporary—lacking the longevity of places like Angkor Wat—and would be entirely reclaimed by nature within 5,000 years if humans vanished.

Rogan ponders what human society looked like during earlier epochs, noting that while anatomically modern humans have existed for a long time, conventional history struggles to explain what humans were doing before the advent of known agriculture. Coppersmith points to the severe stone erosion highlighted by researcher Ben van Kerkwyk on older Egyptian structures as evidence of tens or hundreds of thousands of years of exposure. She argues that after cataclysms, only megaliths, myths, and oral traditions survive.

Rogan emphasizes how fragile humanity's survival has been, recalling how the Toba supervolcano bottlenecked the global human population down to under 100,000 people roughly 70,000 years ago.

> "Take that crowd. That's the entire population of Earth now... One packed UT game. That's everybody on Earth. And now we have to branch out and go to China and go to Africa and go everywhere. That's all the people on Earth."

- **Erosion Evidence:** Ben van Kerkwyk's research on pre-dynastic Egyptian stone erosion. - **Population Bottleneck:** The Toba supervolcano eruption (~70,000 years ago) reduced human populations down to under 100,000 individuals. - **Comparative Scale:** The entire surviving global population at that time could fit inside a single major college football stadium (e.g., UT Austin) or Eagles NFL game.

---

[02:12:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7944s) Archaeological Re-evaluation and Modern Discoveries

Rogan criticizes orthodox history for resisting narrative shifts despite emerging data, insisting that updating models in light of new evidence—such as 1.2-kilometer subsurface structures detected beneath the Great Pyramids—does not make past researchers foolish, but simply reflects ongoing discovery. He predicts that over the next few decades, advancements in LiDAR and radio tomography will revolutionize archaeology in unexamined regions like sub-Saharan Africa and the Amazon.

Coppersmith and Rogan express frustration over how major archaeological breakthroughs are routinely ignored by mainstream media. They cite LiDAR surveys uncovering vast engineered urban networks beneath the jungles of Cambodia and the Amazon basin, proving that millions of people once lived in structured societies rather than simple isolated tribes. Rogan laments that sensationalized internet content and AI-generated hoaxes make it difficult for the general public to discern real historical discoveries from fiction.

Coppersmith brings up North American geology during the Ice Age, theorizing that the Younger Dryas impacts and massive glacial sheets wiped North America clean, destroying any potential ancient structures in ways that arid regions like Egypt escaped.

- **Emerging Technologies:** LiDAR scanning, ground-penetrating radar, and radio tomography. - **Overlooked Discoveries:** Lost urban complexes revealed under rainforest canopies in Amazonia and Cambodia. - **Geological Anomalies:** Sage Wall in Montana as a debated megalithic vs. natural rock formation.

---

[02:16:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8165s) Desert Fortresses, Whales in the Sahara, and Dragon Myths

Examining images during the show, Rogan points out a remote desert fortress constructed purely from sand, straw, and clay. He marvels at its isolated position among the sand dunes, noting how easily sandstorms can bury or uncover entire historical structures. The conversation turns to the dramatic geological shifts of the Sahara, where lush ancient jungles and former oceans have transformed into arid deserts.

Coppersmith shares her firsthand experience visiting the Wadi el-Hitan ("Valley of the Whales") in the Egyptian desert. She recalls driving out with a multi-vehicle security escort due to regional safety concerns and walking directly up to complete prehistoric whale skeletons lying in the sand, marked out only by small surrounding rocks. She describes the fossilized remains as looking otherworldly, almost like dragon skeletons.

This prompts a conversation about dragon lore appearing across almost all ancient cultures. Coppersmith jokes about being publicly mocked on *The View* for open-mindedness regarding dragon myths, revealing she updated her social media bios to "Dragon believer" in response. Rogan and Coppersmith observe that ancient artistic depictions of real animals were often highly stylized or distorted—recalling an old Italian stone mosaic depiction of Jonah and the Whale where the creature looked completely unrecognizable.

- **Wadi el-Hitan (Valley of the Whales):** Egyptian desert site featuring exposed, fossilized Eocene whale skeletons. - **Travel Security:** Coppersmith describes traveling with front and rear security vehicles to reach the remote Egyptian fossil site. - **Media Banter:** Coppersmith's tongue-in-cheek response to media commentary by embracing the "Dragon believer" title online.

[02:19:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8347s) Dragons, Serpents, and Extinct Megafauna

Joe Rogan brings up an old Instagram post depicting a medieval or ancient rendering of a whale drawn by people who had never actually seen one. The result looks absurd—more like a griffin or an oceanic monster than a cetacean. This prompts Joe to question what ancient people were actually seeing when they described dragons and flying serpents. He ponders whether these myths stem from mistranslated encounters with real animals like crocodiles, or perhaps unknown reptilian species and extinct megafauna that survived late into the human timeline before dying out. He reminds Cassie that roughly 65% of all North American megafauna went extinct right after the Younger Dryas impact event.

Cassie Coppersmith highlights a fascinating cultural divergence: in almost all ancient global traditions, dragons and serpents were revered as positive, sacred guardians. She points to the giant *naga* (seven- or nine-headed serpents) standing guard in front of temples in Cambodia, marking the liminal boundary where a visitor enters the realm of the gods. In stark contrast, Judeo-Christian tradition framed the serpent as an evil trickster—such as in the story of Adam and Eve. Joe notes that in the King James Bible, terms like "dragon" often stem from Hebrew translations of words like *tannin*, which could denote sea monsters, jackals, or giant reptiles.

* **North American Megafauna:** 65% vanished following the Younger Dryas impact event. * **Biblical References:** The Bible references dragons or sea monsters roughly 34 times, predominantly translating terms like *tannin*. * **Symbolism:** Cambodian *naga* sculptures act as protective guardians of divine threshold spaces, whereas Christian depictions treat the serpent purely as a malevolent force.

---

[02:22:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8533s) Dinosaur Recreations and Sky-Predator Fears

The conversation shifts to the fossil record and the relatively recent discovery of dinosaurs in modern history. Joe chuckles about online conspiracy theories claiming dinosaurs are "fake," pointing out that skeptics actually have a valid point regarding museum displays: most skeletal setups in public exhibits are modern cast recreations rather than original bones, often constructed from incomplete specimens with heavy assumptions filling in the blanks. He shares a story about visiting the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Montana, where a raptor exhibit showed two wildly different interpretations side-by-side—one with green lizard-like skin, and the other covered in avian feathers.

Joe and Jamie pull up an article about "Gus," a 61% complete *T. rex* skeleton currently up for auction, with estimated bids climbing anywhere from $65 million to $80 million. Browsing the image, Joe laughs at its tiny arms and intact rib cage while noting fossilized bite marks on its side, likely left by scavengers millions of years ago. Joe recounts once touring a home in Malibu that came with a real raptor skeleton included for an extra million dollars. Marveling at ancient ecology, Joe muses on how terrifying it must have been for ancient creatures—or early humans—to be hunted from the sky by giant pterosaurs.

> "I think a lot of times about what it would feel like to be hunted from the sky... you'll be hiking in the desert and a hawk will fly over you and you'll get that shadow... imagine if it's just this massive hunter coming for you."

* **"Gus" the T. Rex:** Features 61% complete original bone structure and holds pre-sale estimates ranging between $20 million and $80 million. * **Bozeman Science Museum:** Displays dual-sided raptor models to highlight the evolutionary shift from scaly reptiles to feathered birds.

---

[02:25:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8714s) Ancient Artifacts: Jimmy Allen and Folsom Points

Cassie presents Joe with a special bring-and-tell item straight from her family's history in western Nebraska. She hands him a 9,500-year-old "Jimmy Allen" spear point—crafted around the exact same period that Göbekli Tepe was at its peak construction. She explains that her grandfather discovered it right in his yard after having river rock dredged from the Platte River delivered to their corn farm. Joe is visibly thrilled to hold the artifact, comparing it to an arrowhead he keeps on his desk.

Cassie then hands Joe a fragment of an even older artifact: a Folsom point dating back roughly 12,700 years. She points out the iconic central flute carved down the middle and the delicate pressure flaking along its edges, noting that this weapon was explicitly engineered to hunt now-extinct Pleistocene megafauna. Cassie mentions that seeing Joe discuss arrowheads with *Yellowstone* creator Taylor Sheridan inspired her to bring these ancient stone tools to the podcast so he could physically touch thousands of years of human craftsmanship.

* **Jimmy Allen Point:** 8,500–9,500 years old; found in dredged Platte River gravel on Cassie's family farm in Nebraska. * **Folsom Point Fragment:** 12,700 years old; exhibits a distinctive central fluting technique designed for hunting ice age megafauna.

---

[02:27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8850s) Ice Sheets, Cataclysms, and Encoded Stone

The two discuss how human society in North America remained hunter-gatherer focused for millennia while complex city-states were emerging across Eurasia, with notable exceptions like the massive 9,000-year-old earthwork mounds in places like Poverty Point, Louisiana. They review the pre-flood 23,000-year-old fossilized human footprints in White Sands, New Mexico, emphasizing that up until roughly 11,000 years ago, vast swathes of North America—including modern-day Chicago, Montana, and Colorado—were buried under a mile-thick ice sheet.

Joe praises independent researcher Randall Carlson for making the scale of these ancient glacial floods understandable. Jamie pulls up a visual diagram showing a two-mile-high ice sheet towering over a modern city skyline to illustrate the sheer volume of ice that melted almost instantaneously. Joe argues that iridium-rich soil layers, impact microdiamonds, and the distinct "black mat" geological layer prove massive cometary or asteroidal impacts occurred around 11,800 and 10,000 years ago. Cassie and Joe speculate that surviving societies recognized stone, geometry, and astronomical alignments as the only medium capable of surviving future cataclysms to pass knowledge down to posterity.

> "What is the one language that's going to survive? Geometry, math, right? Astrology... stones are the things that are going to survive. Myths... it's messages being passed down to us today."

* **White Sands Footprints:** Dated to ~23,000 years old, proving pre-glacial human presence in North America. * **Impact Proxies:** The Young Dryas boundary layer contains extraterrestrial markers including iridium, microdiamonds, and the soot-heavy "black mat."

---

[02:32:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=9155s) A New Era of Global Archaeology

Cassie reflects on how rapid technological progress is transforming our understanding of lost history. In the 1800s, early archaeologists worked in isolated academic silos; a researcher studying Egyptian monuments rarely had the opportunity to travel to Peru or India to compare architectural styles. Today, researchers can instantly cross-reference global anomalies—such as thousand-ton monolithic statues or identical polygonal megalithic stonework appearing in both India and South America.

Looking ahead to the next decade, Cassie predicts that merging space-based LiDAR scanning, satellite imagery, and artificial intelligence will revolutionize archaeological discovery by uncovering lost structures beneath dense jungles and desert sands. Joe expresses deep gratitude to Cassie for her research channel and passionate dedication to deciphering ancient history, concluding the episode with a promise to have her back on the show.

* **Global Parallels:** Similar megalithic architectural motifs and 1,000-ton carved monoliths appear independently in ancient Egypt, India, and Peru. * **Future Tech:** Cassie anticipates space-based scanning and AI analysis will uncover vast undiscovered ruins within the decade.

## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=0s) The explanation doesn't make a lot of sense... If you look at the lines as it's drilling down, they're thick and they don't look the same. If you look at the ones in the actual artifact, they're extremely tight... that looks like a machine. — Cassie Coppersmith

> [20:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1255s) When you read what the kings actually wrote, very seldom do they say, 'I, king so-and-so, built this.' What they say is, 'I installed a lingam... I brought a statue to this temple.' And so the archaeologists make a fairly big jump... — Cassie Coppersmith

> [26:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1591s) Imagine if you're a PhD student and you're like, 'I think you guys are wrong.' Well, you're fucked forever... Imagine the timeline of human history is so controversial that you're worried that it would ruin your career if you spoke accurately... — Joe Rogan

> [34:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2071s) It's clearly human or some form of human, but it has more brain volume and it's built different than us. And everybody's like, 'I don't see anything.' — Joe Rogan

> [40:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2433s) You're probably not going to get a doctor to sign up for that. — Joe Rogan

> When you're in these places, you have different dreams, you sleep really well, you feel just good... you feel like you're on peptides, you know? You just feel, 'Oh my gosh, I feel so healthy, I feel healed.' — Cassie Coppersmith

> [02:13:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8035s) Take that crowd. That's the entire population of Earth now... One packed UT game. That's everybody on Earth. And now we have to branch out and go to China and go to Africa and go everywhere. That's all the people on Earth. — Joe Rogan

> [02:23:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8630s) I think a lot of times about what it would feel like to be hunted from the sky... you'll be hiking in the desert and a hawk will fly over you and you'll get that shadow... imagine if it's just this massive hunter coming for you. — Joe Rogan

> [02:29:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8990s) What is the one language that's going to survive? Geometry, math, right? Astrology... stones are the things that are going to survive. Myths... it's messages being passed down to us today. — Joe Rogan

## Mentioned Joe Rogan, Cassie Coppersmith, Secrets in Stone, Derek, Megalithic Marvels, British Museum, Ramesses II, Kailasa Temple, Hoysala temples, Hampi, Kopeshwar Temple, Sabha Mandapa, Jamie, Osireion, Dr. Robert Schoch, Great Sphinx of Giza, 23andMe, Graham Hancock, Ben van Kerkwyk, UnchartedX, Jimmy Corsetti, Bright Insight, Luke Caverns, Sacsayhuamán, Denisovans, Neanderthals, Homo longi, Maria Wheatley, Amanda Feilding, Google, The New York Times, Michael Button, John Reeves, Angkor Wat, Bayon Temple, Perplexity, Son Doong Cave, Phnom Kulen, Brian Muraresku, Randall Carlson, Taylor Sheridan, The Immortality Key, The View, Museum of the Rockies, Eleusis, Athens, Easter Island, Cusco, Toba supervolcano, UT Austin, Sage Wall, Wadi el-Hitan, Platte River, Poverty Point, White Sands, Göbekli Tepe

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc)

中文简报

Cassie Coppersmith以古代精密石作挑战考古时间线全球建筑异常与高精度石雕证明，在有文字记载的历史之前，先进的冰期前文明曾因灾难性事件而覆灭。主持人Joe Rogan与嘉宾Cassie Coppersmith探讨了古代石作中的异常现象，对印度、埃及、秘鲁和柬埔寨等遗址的传统学术时间线提出了挑战。他们探讨了高精度文物、神秘的车床车削石柱、失落的古代技术证据以及全球大洪水神话。对话还分析了异常的拉长头骨、考古学体制内的教条主义，以及诸如新仙女木期等灾难性事件如何毁灭了史前文明。良渚文化的玉琮和玉璧等高精度古石器展现出机械般的工艺水平，挑战了主流学界关于仅靠线锯配合磨料手工琢玉的解释。 (0:00) 印度和柬埔寨等多处古代遗址中存在层层篡改痕迹，后世君主往往在已有高度精密石雕的古建筑上刻上粗糙铭文或安放神像，却被主流断代错误归功为全案建造者。 (20:55) 印度埃洛拉的凯拉萨神庙从玄武岩悬崖自上而下整体开凿，数百万吨巨石被移走且周边毫无废料碎石堆，传统简单工具建造的时间线在数学上几乎不可能成立。 (24:49) 全球多地出土的拉长头骨（如秘鲁帕拉卡斯）具有比常人大约20%至30%的脑容量、缺失矢状缝及不同的眼眶结构，与后天绑头习俗存在明显的解剖学差异。 (34:31) 柬埔寨吴哥地区的激光雷达（LiDAR）探测揭示出密林下庞大的古代城市网络与超大规模土木工程，其底层重型巨石金字塔年代可能远早于主流认定的时期。 (59:10)

Reading summary

Independent researcher Cassie Coppersmith and host Joe Rogan argue that anomalous precision stonework, large-scale subterranean earthworks, and misattributed monuments suggest ancient civilizations possessed advanced technologies and deeper timelines than acknowledged by mainstream archaeology. High Precision and Mechanical Stonework (0:00) Coppersmith highlights artifacts of the Chinese Liangzhu culture, dated to approximately 3,400 BC, noting that nephrite jade bi discs and cong tubes exhibit machine-like geometric symmetry despite measuring 6 to 7 on the Mohs hardness scale. She asserts that original cong tubes were drilled from both ends with extreme precision, positing that the Liangzhu culture inherited or salvaged these objects rather than manufacturing them with primitive string abrasives. In southern India, Coppersmith points to massive Hoysala temple pillars that exhibit uniform circular lathe cuts across multi-foot diameters, as well as unlabeled stone fixtures at Hampi that resemble industrial chucks and mounting rigs used to rotate multi-ton stones. Rogan and Coppersmith examine monolithic construction feats, emphasizing the excavation of the basalt Kailasa Temple at Ellora, carved top-down from a single cliffside with millions of tons of excavated stone unaccounted for in surrounding debris fields. Coppersmith also references the 60-foot-tall, 1,000-ton Bahubali statue at Shravanabelagola, carved from solid white granite with seamless geometry and without visible tool marks, suggesting these works reflect engineering sophistication that conventional tools cannot satisfactorily explain. Stratigraphic Contradictions and Usurped Inscriptions (20:55) A recurring critique raised by Coppersmith and Rogan is archaeology's reliance on royal inscriptions and organic surface materials to date stone architecture. Coppersmith points out that on the 15-pound "King of Jade" Cong, the incised iconography associated with Liangzhu consists of shallow scratches carved directly over older, sophisticated high relief. Rogan compares this to Egyptian pharaohs like Ramesses II carving cartouches onto pre-existing sarcophagi and structures, arguing that late-stage inscriptions represent political claiming rather than original construction. Coppersmith asserts that translated temple inscriptions in Cambodia reveal rulers recording the installation of statues or lingams into existing structures rather than claiming full construction. Examining regional stratigraphy, she notes that brick structures are frequently found stacked on top of massive stone pyramid foundations, contradicting orthodox models that posit an architectural progression from brick to megalithic stone. Across multiple global sites, the lowest and oldest structural layers consistently display superior craftsmanship relative to cruder subsequent repairs. Landscape-Scale Engineering and LiDAR Discoveries Coppersmith argues that emerging scanning technologies reveal ancient industrial-scale infrastructure that defies traditional hunter-gatherer or early agrarian classifications. Groundbreaking 2012 LiDAR surveys across the Angkor region exposed vast hidden urban networks beneath jungle canopies, including mile-long spiral embankments and a 10-by-10 grid of 30-foot-wide earth mounds. Coppersmith highlights that medieval Khmer moats were cut directly through these ancient spiral features, indicating that later builders were oblivious to the underlying layout. The scale of these works is exemplified by the Western Baray, an artificial reservoir measuring 8 kilometers by 2 kilometers that required the excavation of approximately 138 million cubic meters of earth—the volumetric equivalent of 53 Great Pyramids of Giza. Coppersmith hypothesizes that diversion canals from the Phnom Kulen plateau and massive 20-to-40-foot Shiva lingams surrounded by water functioned as complex water-management or energy-generation systems rather than purely ceremonial decorations. Institutional Dogma and the Pre-Cataclysmic Horizon (26:31) Rogan and Coppersmith criticize academic institutions for enforcing rigid historical dogmas, pointing to the prolonged academic defense of the "Clovis First" paradigm before 22,000-year-old fossilized human footprints were confirmed at White Sands, New Mexico. They contend that orthodox chronologies resist revising the ages of monuments despite evidence like Göbekli Tepe's deliberate burial over 11,000 years ago and Dr. Robert Schoch's geological documentation of heavy rainfall-erosion fissures on the Great Sphinx, which points to construction during the Green Sahara period. Coppersmith and Rogan hypothesize that core megalithic structures across Egypt, India, and Peru predate the Younger Dryas impacts and cataclysms around 12,000 years ago. Rogan suggests that cataclysmic ice melts and global floods erased organic and wood-based historical records, leaving only stone monuments, mathematical proportions, and celestial alignments—such as equinox solar alignments at Angkor Wat—as enduring records designed to survive planetary upheaval. Coppersmith forecasts that the integration of artificial intelligence, ground-penetrating radar, and satellite LiDAR will uncover extensive buried ruins across the Amazon, Africa, and Southeast Asia, inevitably forcing revisions to conventional historical timelines. However, establishing broader acceptance for advanced pre-Ice Age civilizations remains constrained by academic skepticism, disputed stratigraphy, and the difficulty of directly dating shaped stone.

精炼阅读摘要

独立研究员 Cassie Coppersmith 与 Joe Rogan 探讨了全球古代巨石建筑与高精度文物的谜题，认为良渚玉器、印度车床石柱与柬埔寨巨型土方体现了无法用主流考古学原理解释的工艺水平。他们主张，大量核心巨石遗址并非后期铭文记载的产物，而是源于一万两千年前灾变前期的失落文明，主流学界基于表层材料的断代体系存在重大缺陷。异常精度石工与远古加工技术假说 (0:00) 对话首先聚焦中国良渚文化玉器。Coppersmith 指出，距今约 3400 年前的良渚玉琮与玉璧硬度达莫氏 6 至 7 度，其规整的几何对称与内圆外方孔径显示出类似机器加工的精度；著名的“玉琮王”上粗糙的人面浅划痕，实为后来者叠刻在早期精密高浮雕之上的痕迹。Rogan 将此比作古埃及法老拉美西斯二世在更古老石棺上加盖自身印记的行为，认为拥有超高玉雕精度的原作者无需采用粗浅划痕装饰。此外，两人考察了印度与南美的巨石工艺。Coppersmith 指出印度南部霍萨拉（Hoysala）神庙的多根大型石柱带有均匀的车床旋削凹槽，汉皮（Hampi）遗址也发现了疑似横向固定并高速旋转多吨重石柱的工业级夹具，动摇了主流认为仅依赖人力或畜力旋削的定论。埃洛拉凯拉萨（Kailasa）神庙自玄武岩悬崖由上至下整体凿出，数百万吨被运走的弃石在周边毫无踪迹；秘鲁萨克塞华曼（Sacsayhuamán）20英尺高的巨石如同融化般拼合。Coppersmith 认为，全球古遗址底层往往工艺最为卓越，显示工艺水平在历史发展中反而出现了退化。建筑叠置、铭文归属与断代逻辑漏洞 (20:55) 针对主流将诸多巨石建筑断代在公元 1000 年前后的做法，Coppersmith 指出这些年代常基于后世国王留下的纪念铭文。但高棉语和梵文碑文的直译显示，历代国王鲜少声称建造了神庙，多为“安放林伽”或“引入雕像”；统治者为确立神圣王权，直接在前代遗存上刻名认领。Rogan 批评将此类“石碑涂鸦”当作建设证据是逻辑飞跃。在柬埔寨现场，巨石金字塔作为基底，砖结构却砌在上方，颠倒了主流所称“从砖到巨石”的演进序列。两人进一步质疑碳十四测年的局限性。石材本身无法测年，学界依赖木梁或木炭样本容易被后期修缮干扰。Rogan 指出学术建制派出于维护资助与终身教职而阻挠新范式，例如“克洛维斯第一”假说长期压制更早人类迁徙论，直至新墨西哥州白沙公园发现 2.2 万年前的人类足迹才被迫修正。哥贝克力石阵证明了一万一千年前成熟巨石工艺的存在，地质学家 Robert Schoch 关于狮身人面像遭受数千年降雨侵蚀的论断也表明，主流历史框架亟需系统性重估。柬埔寨巨型水利网络与功能装置猜想 2012 年柬埔寨激光雷达（LiDAR）探测彻底改变了对吴哥地区的认知。雷达透视密林，发现了荔枝山采石场高原的古城网络、大范围 30 英尺宽土丘阵列以及吴哥窟南侧绵延一英里的精密螺旋路堤。Coppersmith 指出，后世开掘的吴哥护城河直接切断了这批螺旋构造，证明高棉帝国建设时并未察觉其存在。此外，人工开凿的长 8 公里、宽 2 公里的西巴莱水库开挖量达 1.38 亿立方米，相当于 53 座吉萨大金字塔，单纯解释为水稻灌溉在工程体量上并不合理。 Coppersmith 推测，这套宏大网络原本是一套连通 50 英里外水源的巨型区域水管理工业系统，可能用于能源转化或水体活化。她还将柬埔寨与印度高达 20 至 40 英尺的巨型湿婆林伽（Shiva Lingams）纳入分析，指出这些北向且连接水道的无顶建筑可能并非纯粹宗教象征，而是结合水流运转的古代功能性设备。Rogan 补充指出，现代人倾向于以机械和内燃机定义技术，古文明可能采用了截然不同但高度复杂的自然力路径。冰期灾变、天文对齐与新技术勘测前景 (147:30) 在文明延续性上，两人探讨了新仙女木期灾变假说。约 1.18 万至 1 万年前，北美曾被厚达数千英尺的巨大冰盖覆盖，随后的快速融化伴随彗星撞击留下的铱元素和微钻石层，可能抹除了大量前冰期文明痕迹。Coppersmith 认为，幸存古人意识到只有巨石、数学与天文学对齐能抵御周期性灾难，因此全球多座神庙均精密锁定分至点，如吴哥窟在春分日出正对中央塔尖。展望考古学未来，两人强调航天雷达与人工智能带来的范式转移。研究者 Filippo Biondi 利用卫星雷达在吉萨金字塔下探查到深达 1.2 公里的地下结构，维苏威挑战赛则借助 CT 扫描和 AI 算法成功识读碳化卷轴。Coppersmith 预测，卫星 LiDAR 与透地雷达在亚马逊盆地、撒哈拉沙漠等未充分发掘区域的应用，将在未来十年内揭示更多淹没在密林与沙丘下的远古城市，彻底颠覆现有人类早期历史认知。本期访谈对正统考古断代与历史线性叙事提出了全面挑战，将良渚玉器、印度神庙与吴哥遗迹归结为潜在的史前全球性高科技网络残余。然而，将这些巨石遗址解读为“能源装置”或万年前失落文明的遗产，目前仍高度依赖形态类比与地质外推，面临缺乏连续物质文化序列支持的争议，其最终结论仍有待更深入的多学科实地勘测与无损透视技术检验。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 本期节目由 YouTube 频道 PowerfulJRE 于 2026 年 7 月 21 日发布，属于《Joe Rogan Experience》第 2528 期。嘉宾 Cassie Coppersmith 是一名独立研究员，长期致力于探索远古文明与考古谜团，同时也是播客《Secrets in Stone》的主持人。 ## TL;DR 节目围绕中国良渚玉器、印度高精度车床加工石柱、千吨巴胡巴利巨像以及柬埔寨吴哥窟的庞大水利系统展开，深入探讨了全球各地巨石遗迹所蕴含的超常工艺。对谈犀利指出了主流考古学界仅凭后世粗糙铭文定年、忽视地层倒挂与地质侵蚀证据的教条倾向，并探讨了异常细长头骨、新仙女木期彗星撞击灾变以及远古长寿神话的真实映射。两人认为随着卫星雷达与 AI 跨区域数据挖掘等新技术的介入，人类文明起源与技术的线性叙事必将迎来彻底颠覆。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话充满了解密般的智力兴奋与反叛学术教条的快意，Joe Rogan 标志性的追问与调侃与 Cassie 条理清晰的田野观察碰撞出极高密度的信息火花。当屏幕上不断调出真实头骨特写、卫星雷达结构与微观切削痕迹时，现场弥漫着对失落高级文明的深切敬畏与震撼。从对现代人精神异化与孤独感的哲思，到回溯史前大洪水泥沙俱下的沉思，整期节目在严密推理与开阔遐想之间自如穿梭，给听众带来强烈的思想冲击。 ## Bulletin - [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1s) 中国良渚遗址出土的透闪石软玉琮与玉璧展现出近乎现代机械车削的高精度同心痕迹，与主流考古学认定的绳索和竹管简易打磨存在巨大工艺反差。 - [01:00:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3627s) 柬埔寨激光雷达扫描揭示吴哥西池土方开挖量达1.38亿立方米（等同于53座吉萨金字塔），且丛林下潜藏着绵延一英里的几何螺旋堤与巨型古城网络。 - [17:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1029s) 印度柯普什瓦尔神庙的车削石柱及千吨级巴胡巴利巨像展现出分毫不差的对称性与机械级精密度，挑战了仅凭后世粗糙铭文断代的学术逻辑。 - [35:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2155s) 秘鲁及马耳他出土的部分拉长头骨不仅脑容量较常人扩容20%至30%，更呈现出缺失矢状缝与枕骨大孔移位的独特解剖异象，无法仅用人工束头解释。 - [01:43:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6188s) 卫星穿透雷达与AI概率分析指出吉萨高原西侧沙丘下方极可能深埋着第二座狮身人面像，预示太空遥感与算法正推动考古学范式转移。 ## Key takeaways - [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1s) 良渚文化的玉琮与玉璧展现出极高精度的对称几何与微小同心钻痕，其机械级工法与主流考古认定的原始工具产生无法自圆其说的矛盾。 - [05:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=356s) 古代统治者惯于在更古老的宏伟遗迹上雕刻拙劣铭文宣誓主权，导致仅凭后世铭文或地表碎屑进行碳测年常落入循环论证与断代倒挂。 - [13:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=836s) 印度霍萨拉神庙与柯普什瓦尔神庙的巨型立柱呈现出不可否认的车床车削加工特征与零公差咬合，远非人力或牲畜驱动的简易设备所能完成。 - [24:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1489s) 凯拉萨神庙完全由整块玄武岩山体自上而下开凿且容错率为零，被剥离的数百万吨巨量石料周边未留下任何废弃堆积，构成巨大的工程谜团。 - [30:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1806s) 哥贝克力石阵在11,000多年前被蓄意掩埋的事实，彻底打破了传统学术界关于文明始于6,000年前且由狩猎采集者建造巨石的线性叙事。 - [31:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1868s) 狮身人面像包围壁上深邃的垂直降雨侵蚀痕迹，从硬核地质学角度证明其年代至少在9,000年前的湿润时代，但屡遭传统历史学者压制。 - [33:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2035s) 秘鲁等地出土的部分奇异长头骨具备超常颅容量、巨大眼眶并天然缺失矢状缝，表明其可能源自未知的人类亚种而非单纯的人工夹板变形。 - [40:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2433s) 古代普遍存在的开颅环锯术不仅具有极高愈合率，还可能是针对无矢状缝骨骼因颅内高压压迫而采取的减压或唤醒意识尝试。 - [57:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3431s) 吴哥窟由内向外呈现出三层演变，核心区域为纯粹的神圣图腾与严重风化石料，外层加盖结构则骤变为血腥战争，映射出文明与意识的退化演变。 - [01:07:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4032s) 吴哥地区长达16公里的引水分流系统将荔枝山水系与水库、金字塔深度串联，暗示其不仅用于稻作，更可能是宏大的工业级水质调控装置。 - [01:16:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4577s) 矗立于花岗岩山顶的千吨巴胡巴利巨像展现出超凡的几何对称与机械加工感，其颈部环纹与埃及、柬埔寨巨像的同心纹理呈现跨文明呼应。 - [01:28:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5327s) 巨石湿婆林伽大多遵循露天无顶、朝向正北并环绕水利的严格建造范式，与其古籍中“光与火之柱”的描述相吻合，或为失落的能量利用装置。 - [01:36:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5788s) 菲利波·比翁迪利用太空卫星雷达扫描并在多款尖端AI系统中交叉运算，验证吉萨高原西侧沙丘下存在第二座狮身人面像的概率超过80%。 - [01:57:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7041s) 苏美尔王表与耆那教经典中记载的大洪水前以千年计的长寿神王，或可对应现代生物衰老逆转技术下统治精英垄断延寿的科学推演。 - [02:25:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8714s) 北美福尔瑟姆与詹姆斯·艾伦石镞见证了万年前古印第安人的纯熟石器技艺，而当时北美大半地表仍深埋在两英里厚的庞大冰盖之下。 - [02:29:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8946s) 新仙女木期的宇宙彗星撞击导致巨量冰盖融化引发全球洪流，将地球早期高等文明造物彻底抹平，唯有宇宙尺度编码的坚固巨石得以幸存。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1s) 缘起：神秘的中国良渚古玉与大英博物馆的震撼 Joe Rogan 热情欢迎独立研究员兼播客“Secrets in Stone”的主持人 Cassie Coppersmith。Joe 提到自己是在 YouTube 频道“Megalithic Marvels”（由 Derek 主持）看到她关于“不可思议的古代中国文物”的视频后大受震撼，当场便联系团队安排录制。Cassie 回忆，自己最早是在大英博物馆注意到这些文物的：整整一堵墙展出的全是透闪石软玉（nephrite jade）器物。软玉本身质地极硬，但这些展品边缘规整、对称严密，肉眼看去甚至具备“工业机械加工”般的超高精度，与主流考古学界所认定的原始生产工具形成了极其剧烈的反差。这些文物被主流考古界归属于中国新石器时代的良渚文化（Liangzhu culture）。其中最负盛名的两类典型器物是： - **玉琮（Cong tube）**：外方内圆的柱状筒形器，几何线条精准对称，工艺难度极高。 - **玉璧（Bi disc）**：形如巨型扁平甜甜圈的圆形玉盘，表面极为平整。 Cassie 提出了一个类比：良渚墓葬中出土成千上万件玉器的现象，与古埃及前王朝墓葬中大量发现高精度硬石花瓶（hard stone vases）如出一辙。良渚人很可能与古埃及人一样，是在地表发现了这些难以复制的史前遗存，抑或从某种高级文明手中获赠了这些物品，进而将其视作极其神圣贵重的随葬重器。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 古代高精度遗存的传承猜想 accDescr: 对比中国良渚玉器与埃及硬石花瓶的推论流向 subgraph Origin["失落的先进工艺源头"] A["高硬度材料加工\n（透闪石玉 / 闪长岩）"] B["机械级几何精度\n（外方内圆 / 镜面平整）"] end subgraph Successors["后继文明接纳与再利用"] C["良渚文化 (公元前3400年)"] D["古埃及前王朝"] end subgraph Usage["最终归宿"] E["大量作为王者陪葬品\n（王权与神圣象征）"] end Origin --> C Origin --> D C --> E D --> E ``` ### [02:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=141s) 竹管、麻绳与解玉砂：主流实验与实物的钻孔痕迹对撞当谈及这些器物的年代时，Cassie 解释道，良渚遗址的土方工程与聚集地年代被考古学家可靠地测定在约公元前 3400 年左右，其时间跨度与出土硬石花瓶的古埃及早期墓葬惊人一致。然而在生产工具层面，主流考古学界坚称这些玉器是用绳索蘸解玉砂（或某种研磨剂）拉锯切割，再配以竹管打孔、铜器与石锤修整而成。听到这里，Joe 看着 Cassie 满脸意味深长的笑容调侃道：“你脸上带着巨大的微笑呢。”Cassie 直言这种解释根本站不住脚。屏幕上放出了良渚玉璧中心孔的对比图。右下角的真实文物孔洞内部布满了致密、微小且间距极为均匀的同心钻痕，视觉上与现代精密机械加工痕迹高度一致；而左边则是现代考古学家尝试用竹管和研磨剂进行的复刻实验切痕，显得粗粝、杂乱且凹凸不平。此外，真实文物中心常有两端轻微错开的对接棱，表明当时是先从一面下钻，翻转后再从背面打孔并在中间贯通。针对主流考古界宣称的工具效率，Cassie 举例补充：1930 年代有学者用麻绳加研磨剂进行切割实验，仅切开一块篮球大小的软玉就耗费了整整一周的时间。 - **良渚文化测定年代**：约公元前 3400 年（距今 5400 多年）。 - **展示玉璧规格**：直径约 9 英寸（约 23 厘米），正圆形，表面平整度极高。 - **莫氏硬度等级参考**：透闪石软玉与闪长岩相当，硬度约在莫氏 6 到 7 度之间（金刚石为 10 度）。 ### [05:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=356s) “玉琮王”上的刻痕疑云：改写与挪用的王权惯例在所有良渚器物中，Cassie 认为最令人百思不得其解的是良渚“玉琮王”（King of Jade Cong）。这件器物重达约 15 磅（约 6.8 公斤），器身呈现规整的内圆外方结构，上大下小，带有完美的 90 度直角。更关键的矛盾在于其表面的纹饰分层：琮体四周先有极高水平的高浮雕神人兽面轮廓，随后其上又被覆盖刻划了极为纤细、略显凌乱的浅浮雕划痕。如今良渚博物馆内随处可见这种标志性的神人兽面图腾，但 Cassie 怀疑这些较粗浅的划痕是良渚部落后人后来刮刻上去的“统治印记”。这一观点立即引起了 Joe 的共鸣。Joe 指出，替代历史学界在研究古埃及巨型石棺时经常发现同样的矛盾现象：石棺本体切割工艺登峰造极、误差极小，但其外部雕刻的象形文字却常常显得边缘崩损、笨拙粗糙，明显不属于同一种工具体系。两人探讨了历史上的统治者规律： - **占有与冒领功劳**：历代掌权者一旦控制某地，惯常在原有的古老神迹上凿上自己的名字宣誓主权，例如法老拉美西斯二世（Ramesses II）被称为“自拍之王”（King Selfie），疯狂在各类建筑石雕上刻满自己的王名圈（Cartouche）。 - **逻辑悖论**：如果一个文明本身具备加工出如此完美几何体玉琮的顶级工法，绝无可能在雕刻表面象征王权的最高图腾时，只留下宛如刮擦一般的粗劣线痕。当 Joe 询问 Cassie 是如何踏上质疑传统历史编年史的探索之路时，Cassie 谈到了自己频道取名“Secrets in Stone”（石头中的秘密）的初衷，她坚信古老的石头遗迹中埋藏着失落文明不为人知的真实脉络。 ### [10:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=618s) 石头会说话：考古定年与地层堆叠的矛盾卡西·科普史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）指出，只要仔细观察那些硬石花瓶等文物，就会发现它们与主流叙事完全格格不入。尤其是亲临大英博物馆近距离观看这些石器时，对照馆方给出的工艺解释，会发现整套说辞根本自相矛盾。在世界各地的古遗址中，往往只要“往下挖一两层”，就会暴露出一大堆主流学术界无法自圆其说的断层与假设。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）顺着追问：“挖一两层的意思是，越古老的东西反而越复杂吗？”科普史密斯给出了肯定的回答，并进一步剖析了传统考古学的常见问题：碳十四测年往往只测到地层的一部分，只要挖出一块符合他们预期叙事的地层样本并完成测年，报告就此盖棺定论；在柬埔寨等地，只要某个石柱或墙面留有某位国王的铭文，考古学家便直接断定整座宏伟建筑都建于该国王统治时期，不再展开更深层的探究。这种断层在巨石建筑中表现得尤为明显。科普史密斯强调，只要受过眼力训练，就能在全球各地一眼看出最初的古老巨石地基与后世文明在其上层进行的粗糙模仿——后来的文化显然竭力模仿底层的工艺，却受限于技术能力，做出的东西相形见绌。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 巨石遗址建造层级与学术假设偏差 accDescr: 对比底层精密巨石与后世模仿建筑的真实地层，展现传统考古定年的局限。 subgraph SiteReality["遗址实际层级结构"] direction TB TopLayer["上层建筑：后世文明建造 （尝试模仿底层，工艺粗糙，易留铭文）"] BaseLayer["底层地基：未知远古文明建造 （高精度巨石结构，真正施工源头）"] TopLayer -->|直接叠建在| BaseLayer end subgraph ArcheoBias["传统考古断代逻辑"] direction TB SurfaceSample["采集上层铭文或浅层碳材料"] FormStory["套用既有线性文明时间线"] ReportDone["仓促出具断代报告，停止下掘"] SurfaceSample --> FormStory --> ReportDone end SiteReality -.->|被误读| ArcheoBias ``` --- ### [12:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=728s) 走出主流视线：从埃及启发到全球冷门遗址的跨区域求证谈及自己是如何走上这条研究道路的，科普史密斯回忆，大约四年前她前往埃及旅行，在途中观看了本·范·柯克维克（Ben van Kerkwyk，UnchartedX 频道的创办人）的视频。这一经历彻底点燃了她的探索欲，随后演变成一种执着。不过，她并没有局限在埃及、秘鲁或土耳其等已有顶尖学者（如埃及的本、秘鲁的布莱恩·福斯特 Brian Foerster）深耕的热门地区，而是转向鲜有人涉足的冷门遗址。过去几年，她频繁造访柬埔寨、泰国，且刚从印度考察归来。她认为，如果想要推翻或修正既定的人类文明时间线，仅靠两三个孤立的遗址案例毫无说服力。研究者必须把视野放大到全球：当你在全球成百上千个遗址中，同时发现几乎完全一致的巨石建筑风格、严丝合缝的石墙以及神秘的石制“凸台（nubs）”时，全球统一的失落技术网络或前代文明假说才会具备强大的证据力。罗根对此深表赞同，直言面对如此多惊人的一致性，“人类历史时间线被弄错了”的可能性，远比“主流历史学家完全正确、其他人全是阴谋论疯子”高得多。 --- ### [13:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=836s) 摧不垮的奇迹与印度的神秘车床加工石柱罗根顺势提到了印度著名的凯拉萨神庙（Kailasa Temple，埃洛拉石窟第16窟）。罗根提到助理杰米（Jamie）曾查证的一段历史：当年曾有一整支军队被派去摧毁这座神庙，士兵们连续砸了很长时间，最终却连整座建筑的皮毛都没能破坏，只留下几道微不足道的划痕。面对这种完全由整块巨岩从上往下凿刻而成的奇迹，甚至有网络观点提出过“高功率激光雕刻”的激进猜想。罗根感叹，即便激光假说听起来离奇，但也凸显出现代人对古人施工能力的难以置信。科普史密斯随即分享了她两周前在南印度霍萨拉（Hoysala）时期神庙群看到的惊人景象。神庙内部矗立着巨大的“车床加工石柱（lathe-turned pillars）”。这些石柱直径达数英尺，表面环绕着极其精细的同心圆环与多边形截面： - **考古界的妥协与回避**：主流考古学家在肉眼可见的车刀车削痕迹面前，不得不承认这些柱子确实经过车床加工，但他们顽固地拒绝承认存在任何“机械动力”，坚称这只是依靠“人力或牲畜驱动的简易车床”完成的。 - **庞大的工程要求**：若要把数吨重的巨型石柱横向架起，两端固定在车床上高速旋转并用刀具精准车削，所需的机械夹持力、底座稳定性和切削动力是人力或牲畜根本无法提供的。 - **散落的机械遗存线索**：在印度的亨比（Hampi）等遗址及其博物馆的偏僻角落里，可以见到一些带有凹槽与旋转卡盘痕迹的石制构件，极似车床机器上的固定端盖或安装底座，但这些部件长期被主流学界视而不见。 --- ### [17:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1029s) 柯普什瓦尔神庙的极致精度与几何声学猜想随着杰米在屏幕上调出南印度马哈拉施特拉邦柯普什瓦尔神庙（Kopeshwar Mahadev Temple）天花板与斯瓦尔加曼达帕（Swarga Mandap）柱厅的高清照片，现场被这些石柱的视觉美感彻底震撼。柱身通体采用绿泥片岩（即皂石 Soapstone，开采时相对软、出库氧化后极度坚硬）雕刻，但印度其他地区亦有使用高硬度花岗岩车削的同款石柱。科普史密斯提到，这些石柱不仅在现实中庞大非凡（高度是人身高的两倍以上），而且漫步其中能感受到非同寻常的场域能量，表面打磨得光滑温润，甚至能直接看出车刀从底部起刀、持续旋转切削直至顶端收刀的完整连续路径。面对柱身上复杂至极、层层推进的凹凸圆环，罗根急切地询问是否有现代几何精度测量的科学分析。关于石柱外形的讨论甚至延伸到了声学领域——不少独立学者指出，如果把这些石柱横过来看，整根柱子的轮廓起伏就像是一段实体化的“声音波形图”，似乎在通过几何频率记录或表达某种物理信息。杰米随即检索并朗读了关于柯普什瓦尔神庙柱子的学术描述数据： - **无砂浆高精密拼合**：柯普什瓦尔神庙柱厅内的石柱展现出极高几何精度的圆形与多边形轮廓，相邻石构件之间未采用任何砂浆粘合，仅靠极度严密的物理公差与对齐实现咬合。 - **机械车削特征**：官方文献也不得不承认，其表面加工痕迹“与现代机械车床车削加工高度相似（resembles machine turned work）”。罗根对此幽默地嘲讽道：“用‘相似’这个词可真巧妙（that's cute）”，讽刺学术界在面对板上钉钉的精密机械加工铁证时，依然试图用语意修辞来回避古代高度文明存在的真相。 ### [20:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1227s) 印度神庙的精工车削石柱与年代铭文争议在讨论印度中世纪神庙的建造细节时，两人探讨了神庙圆形大厅中柱子的精密布局。这些石柱不仅间距高度一致，而且使天花板顶部的采光天井（Oculus）保持绝对居中，体现出严密的径向规划与荷载分布计算。整座神庙完全依靠重力和互锁石块咬合，未曾使用任何砂浆，因此石柱与底座、横梁之间的精确契合直接决定了结构的稳固性，这常被视为印度中世纪石木工程的高峰。然而卡西·考珀史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）指出，现场最耐人寻味的是石柱被“二次搬运”的痕迹。许多神庙核心其实是原初的巨石基底，但后人将这些极度精密的深色石柱移入新神庙中，甚至有传闻称某些石柱曾具备旋转功能。最令人费解的对比在于，石柱上下衔接的石工作业极为粗糙原始，正中央却嵌着一根犹如现代车床加工般完美的抛光石柱。当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）询问官方将这些建筑断代为何时时，考珀史密斯表示学界通常将其定在公元 1200 年至 1500 年左右。这种断代的主要依据并非石块本身，而是柱子和神庙侧壁上历代统治者留下的铭文。罗根对此直言怀疑，认为仅凭刻字判定建造者并不充分，甚至更像是后来的“涂鸦”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 印度神庙石构年代与工艺错位分析 accDescr: 展示神庙中原始巨石与精工石柱在粗糙后期建筑中的嵌合与误判 subgraph 结构错位 A["粗糙顶梁石工"] --> B["极高精度车床加工石柱（黑石材质）"] B --> C["粗糙底座石工"] end subgraph 断代逻辑分歧 D["历代国王雕刻铭文（公元1200-1500年）"] --> E["学界认定：铭文即建造年代"] F["工艺断层与二次组装痕迹"] --> G["另类假说：后期统治者重用史前构件"] end ``` ### [22:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1335s) 铭文翻译的断章取义与跨越万年的史前遗址假设考珀史密斯以自己在柬埔寨吴哥窟等古迹的研究为例，揭示了铭文断代背后的逻辑漏洞。当地大量神庙铭文早年由法国殖民学者从梵文转译为法文，她利用 AI 将这些法文重新翻译为英文后发现，历代国王在铭文中几乎从不说“某某国王建造了这座神庙”，而通常写的是“我在此安放了林伽（Lingam）”或“我向此神庙奉纳了一尊神像”。考古学家却在这些供奉记录与建筑主体起源之间做出了巨大的主观跳跃，直接等同于该国王奠基了整座遗址，实质上是在“往古人嘴里塞话”。谈及自己认定的年代框架，考珀史密斯认为这些巨石建筑最古老的核心应当追溯至大洪水之前，即至少 12,000 年以前，甚至更为久远。她列举了不同文明遗址的独特风格： - **秘鲁巨石遗迹**：呈现出具有厚重感、枕头般鼓起的巨石（Pillowy Blocks），风格活泼且严密咬合，现代工艺难以解释。 - **古埃及建筑**：如阿比多斯的奥西里斯神庙（Osireion），线条笔直冷峻、极少雕琢修饰，整体呈现出一种现代仪器般的“冷酷临床感（Clinical）”。 - **印度古代神庙**：从基座到立柱表面遍布繁复精微的浮雕与几何对称构造。考珀史密斯认为，尽管这三个地区的建筑风格截然迥异，但其工程难度与全球分布暗示当时可能存在跨地域的沟通网络；数千年来，各代文明反复被这些充满能量的特定地理坐标所吸引，不断在更古老的巨石废墟上层层加盖、定居重建。 ### [24:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1489s) 凯拉萨神庙的绝壁雕凿与失踪的数百万吨石料话题随即转到印度埃洛拉石窟的凯拉萨神庙（Kailasa Temple）。罗根对这座神庙尤为痴迷，提到自己看了多部纪录片并曾在节目中与 Perplexity 首席执行官深入讨论过该奇迹。即便按照主流历史学界认定的一千多年前的建造时间来看，凯拉萨神庙至今保存极为完好，几乎看不出侵蚀痕迹，这意味着如果将其推向数千年前，其外观同样不会有太大改变；代代相传之下，关于“谁建造了它”的记忆早已沦为后人的盲目猜测。凯拉萨神庙最令人震撼之处在于其全实心玄武岩山体的“自上而下”单体开凿工法： - **零容错率设计**：在无法拼装修改的前提下自绝壁顶端向下切削，任何一处结构失误都会导致整座神庙彻底报废，但整座建筑却呈现出分毫不差的几何对称。 - **石料凭空消失之谜**：整座工程剥离了数百万吨玄武岩岩体。罗根指出，即便历经数千年风化或后人挪用，如此庞大体量的废石绝不可能完全不留痕迹，然而遗址周边从未发现任何开凿堆弃的废石场，“哪怕是一座留给后人免费取用的碎石堆都没留下”。面对这类无法解释的工程量，卡西指出，挖掘出几片陶片或发现一块后世石碑便断言“破案了”的做法，极大地矮化了上古遗迹所蕴含的复杂谜团。 ### [26:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1591s) 学术界的层级门阀与“克洛维斯第一”的打压启示考珀史密斯表示，自己其实十分理解一线年轻考古学家的两难处境：他们在现场挖掘时或许内心也察觉到建筑年代要久远得多，但受限于手中的陶片定年法和地层中后代文明的生活遗存，只能依此汇报。罗根则直斥学术界僵化的权力门阀体制是阻碍真相的最大元凶。大学体系、终身教职评审、课题资金拨款以及博士论文审核等权力完全由顶层学阀把持，这套体系充斥着学术自负与同行倾轧，任何离经叛道的观点都会遭到残酷围剿。罗根以美洲考古史上的“克洛维斯第一（Clovis First）”假说为例： - 当初提出美洲存在早于克洛维斯人遗存的资深学者遭遇同行声讨，学术声誉彻底被毁。 - 数十年后，新墨西哥州白沙国家公园（White Sands）发现的古人类足迹将美洲人类活动史确凿推前至 22,000 年前以上，才证明当年的异见者完全正确，且年代早了上万年。考珀史密斯结合自己早年在企业界打拼的经历指出，身处体制之内的年轻学者为了保住饭碗和科研经费，有着极强的“自我保全机制”，绝不敢公然站出来质疑权威叙事。罗根总结道，给糟糕的老板打工固然痛苦，但如果这个老板掌控着全人类历史叙事的最终解释权，并以学术虚荣排斥格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）等提出的颠覆性客观数据，这种学术霸权对人类认知历史真相构成了极大的危害。 ### [30:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1806s) 哥贝克力石阵对传统文明时间线的颠覆与学术界的固步自封乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出，哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）的发现彻底打乱了人类历史的时间线。这座巨型建筑被证实至少在11,000年前就已被蓄意掩埋，这意味着它的建造时间至少距今11,000年以上。然而，传统学术界一直坚持认为人类文明起源于大约6,000年前。面对哥贝克力石阵——一个拥有精美3D浮雕、同心圆布局的宏伟巨石结构——主流叙事不得不勉强解释为：一群狩猎采集者仅仅是“在捕杀羚羊的闲暇时间里，突发奇想在山顶上建造了这些巨大的石头建筑”。卡西·考珀史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）随即指出一个耐人寻味的现象：哥贝克力石阵的测年并未推动学界重新审视世界各地的其他遗址。例如在埃及，几乎没有主流学者愿意去探讨某些遗迹是否有10,000年的历史。这段历史似乎已经被主流学界画上了句号，不容翻案。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 文明时间线冲突与学术态度 accDescr: 对比传统文明起源模型与哥贝克力石阵等考古发现之间的矛盾，以及主流学界的应对。 subgraph TimelineConflict["文明时间线冲突"] A["传统主流模型： 文明始于约 6,000 年前"] B["哥贝克力石阵： 11,000+ 年前建造并被掩埋"] A -.->|"严重冲突"| B end subgraph MainstreamStance["学术体制反应"] C["将建造者强行归为'狩猎采集者'"] D["拒绝为埃及等其他遗址重新测年"] B --> C B --> D end ``` --- ### [31:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1868s) 狮身人面像的水蚀痕迹与被压制的地质证据罗根谈到了地质学家罗伯特·肖克（Robert Schoch）关于狮身人面像（Great Sphinx of Giza）及其神庙外围水蚀痕迹的研究。肖克曾拍摄下那些岩石侵蚀的照片，展示给其他地质学家看并询问侵蚀成因，同行们一眼便断定这是典型的水侵蚀。然而，一旦肖克透露这些照片拍摄自狮身人面像包围壁，地质学家们便立刻退避三舍，纷纷改口辩称“刚才只是开玩笑，其实是风沙侵蚀”。这种现象让罗根感到不可思议：学术界对人类历史时间线的捍卫竟然到了这种地步，以至于专家们唯恐依据专业的地质降雨侵蚀判断发声会断送自己的职业生涯。形成狮身人面像岩石上那些深邃沟壑，必须经历数千年的持续降雨冲刷。这就意味着狮身人面像的年龄至少在9,000年以上，甚至可能更为久远。而且狮身人面像在近代绝大部分时间里都被掩埋在黄沙之下，深埋期间根本不会发生这种水蚀，更彻底推翻了“完全是风沙造成”的托词。能够让尼罗河流域降下如此丰沛雨量的气候时期，正是至少9,000年前的湿润时代。考珀史密斯对此感到痛心，认为这种对讨论的压制剥夺了人类了解自身起源的权利。她以商业基因检测服务（如 23andMe）的流行举例：无数人热衷于通过追溯四代以上的祖先来寻找归属感和精神锚点。如果全人类能够真正弄清我们究竟从何而来，整个社会或许就不会感到如此迷茫。而罗根则调侃道，这虽然可悲，但同时也荒唐得滑稽——人类总是充斥着虚妄的自尊，为了捍卫所谓的“既定叙事”不惜违背客观事实。然而这种打压反而激发了反抗，为格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）、本·范·科克维克（Ben van Kerkwyk）、吉米·科塞蒂（Jimmy Corsetti）以及卢克·卡弗恩斯（Luke Caverns）等独立研究者开辟了广阔的探索天地。 --- ### [33:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2035s) 萨克赛瓦曼的巨石谜团与奇特的长头骨现象罗根提到了卢克·卡弗恩斯在美洲的研究，并直言主流学界根本无法合理解释秘鲁的萨克赛瓦曼（Sacsayhuamán）。在没有任何钢铁工具和重型机械的远古时代，古代工匠是如何搬运、拼装这些高逾20英尺的庞大巨石的？这些巨石严丝合缝地嵌套在一起，宛如拼图，边缘圆润光滑，在考珀史密斯看来“就像融化的棉花糖叠在另一块融化的棉花糖上”。更令人费解的是在当地出土的奇异长头骨（elongated skulls）。罗根强调，这些是真实存在的骨骼遗骸，绝非人工造假的骗局，它们的脑容量比正常现代人足足高出20%到30%。考珀史密斯表示，自己曾在四个不同的国家亲眼见过这类长头骨。罗根进一步澄清，这些并非只是后来通过人工颅骨变形（如用木板捆绑婴儿头部）挤压出来的畸形头骨： - **解剖学差异**：人工绑头仅能改变头骨形状，而无法改变脑容量；秘鲁等地发现的长头骨面部骨骼更大、脑容量显著扩容，而且普遍缺少正常人类头顶中间的矢状缝（sagittal suture）。 - **模仿原型之谜**：历史上普遍存在的使用夹板把婴儿头部绑长的人工颅骨变形习俗，很可能是古代人类为了模仿某群真实存在过的“神圣阶层”或异种人类。 - **未知人种的可能**：就像近年来不断被确认的丹尼索瓦人（Denisovans）、尼安德特人（Neanderthals）以及在中国发现的大头人（“朱利安人”/ 龙人）一样，地球上很可能曾共存过脑容量更大、骨骼结构完全不同的人类种群。 --- ### [36:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2191s) 大脑潜力猜想与英国埃夫伯里的小身躯巨头骨考珀史密斯和罗根展开了大胆的猜想：如果这些古老人类拥有多出30%的脑容量，他们具备怎样的能力？是否掌握了现代人无法理解的心灵感应，或者通过声波与意念移动巨石？考珀史密斯借用电影《永无止境》（Limitless，布莱德利·库珀主演）与《超体》（Lucy，斯嘉丽·约翰逊主演）的设定打比方——普通人仅仅开发一部分潜能就能产生惊人跃升，更不用说拥有多出近三分之一大脑容积的人类。也许正是因为这些高等人种掌握着超绝技艺并担任统治精英，后世的凡人法老与君王才会竞相通过束身绑头来模仿他们的外观。罗根自嘲道，如果外人刚打开这期节目，肯定会觉得“罗根又在节目里跟疯子胡扯了”，于是他让制作人杰米（Jamie）调出相关的头骨实物照片以正视听。考珀史密斯也分享了自己在英国收集的研究资料： - **埃夫伯里的异常骨骼**：在英国著名巨石圈埃夫伯里（Avebury）当地的博物馆中，藏有一些极其反常的骨骼。这些骨骼身材矮小得宛如传说中的“小仙子”（fairies），却顶着一颗异常巨大的长头骨。考珀史密斯推测，英国民间流传的仙精神话很可能就起源于这些古代遗骸。 - **解剖特征异样**：研究学者玛丽亚·惠特利（Maria Wheatley）曾详尽记录过遍布英国各地的这类头骨。这些长头骨的耳朵位置与常人截然不同，眼眶骨骼异常巨大。 - **排除普通婴儿的可能性**：面对屏幕上展示的一具连接在微小躯干上的巨大头骨照片，罗根直呼“这体型简直像自带了橄榄球头盔”。考珀史密斯和罗根一致认为，即便以大头婴儿的标准来看，其比例也完全脱离了正常人类幼童的生长曲线，呈现出极为怪异的生理结构。 ### [39:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2368s) 细长头骨的生理异象：枕骨位置与缺失的矢状缝乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）与卡西·科普史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）仔细审视着屏幕上展示的古代细长头骨（Elongated Skulls），感叹如果按这种生理结构，婴儿期几乎不可能稳稳把头抬起来，看起来就像脑袋晃荡的“摇头娃娃”。罗根注意到，这些头骨向脊柱后方延伸的距离极其夸张，而且后脑底部非常平坦。科普史密斯随即指出，这类细长头骨最离奇的生理特征之一，正是枕骨大孔（头骨与脊柱的连接点）的位置与普通人类截然不同；罗根附和道，这完全符合力学逻辑，否则重心失衡，脑袋肯定会直接向后翻倒。更为震撼的是颅骨的缝合线结构。在观察来自秘鲁的标本时，两人惊讶地发现，最前排的一个头骨竟然完全没有正常人都有的“矢状缝”（sagittal suture）。科普史密斯提到几个月前曾在秘鲁亲眼目睹过这一实物，它与后排的常规头骨完全不同，两侧虽有缝合线，正中央却浑然一体，根本看不出不同骨板愈合的痕迹。随后他们又对比了一具标注为马耳他（Malta）出土的头骨俯视图，其骨骼构造同样与常人有天壤之别，罗根不由得直言：“这简直就是另一种不同的人类。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 细长头骨异常生理结构与功能适应 accDescr: 展示细长头骨在颅缝、颅容积和脊柱连接点上的生理特异性及其力学适应。 subgraph SkullAnatomy["细长头骨异常生理特征"] A["缺失矢状缝 (无顶骨愈合缝)"] B["颅容量与后脑极度扩张"] C["巨大且倾斜的眼眶骨骼"] end subgraph BiomechanicalAdaptation["解剖适应与力学平衡"] D["枕骨大孔与脊柱连接点移位"] E["底部与后颈部扁平化"] end SkullAnatomy --> BiomechanicalAdaptation D --> F["避免重心后坠，维持头部平衡"] ``` ### [40:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2433s) 古代环锯术之谜：释放颅内压力与意识觉醒随后话题转向了古代头骨上普遍存在的穿孔现象——环锯术（Trepanation）。罗根看着头骨上的规则圆孔惊呼，这些痕迹看起来极具机械感，简直就像拿现代电钻在人的脑袋上生生打出一个规整的圆圈，甚至像要“舀出一勺脑浆”。科普史密斯解释称，考古证据表明许多经历此类开颅手术的古人甚至存活了相当长的时间，骨骼边缘出现了明显的愈合痕迹，核心疑问在于：他们究竟为何要承受如此极端的痛苦去钻孔？科普史密斯提出了一种大胆的假说：普通人的颅骨会随着年龄增长而骨缝闭合，但如果这些细长头骨本身就缺少矢状缝，随着脑部停止发育或骨骼固化，异常庞大的大脑可能承受了巨大的内压，甚至切断了他们与高维意识的连接。民间理论认为他们拥有巨大的脑容量和超常的心灵感应（Telepathy）能力，在闭合的头骨上凿孔，正是为了释放压力并开辟空间，重新恢复对意识层面的接入。谈到穿孔追求意识提升，罗根联想到了此前做客节目的知名女嘉宾阿曼达·菲尔丁（Amanda Feilding，曾亲自对自己实施环锯术）。罗根回忆她是一位非常慈祥但也极其特立独行、在意识维度“漫游过无数次”的女士（制作人杰米确认她已于大约一年前离世）。她曾以极度赞美的口吻描述过自己用钻头钻开前额后那种大脑终于摆脱骨骼束缚的释然感；罗根调侃道，如果你的目标是“打通脉轮”（chakras）或追求意识升华，绝不可能有正规医生愿意签字帮你动刀，唯一的方法只能是自己下手。 ### [43:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2608s) 无法用“人工束头”解释的巨大眼眶与颅容量为了深入探究，罗根让制作人杰米（Jamie）搜索更多在博物馆中展出的高清细长头骨照片。期间他们顺带吐槽了改版后的 Google 搜索界面充斥着 AI 生成内容，罗根痛骂 AI 汇总的解释纯粹是主流考古学界陈词滥调的掩饰。当一张高清晰度的真实头骨特写出现在屏幕上时，全场瞬间被其夸张的解剖结构震慑。罗根情绪激动地强调，这根本不是什么罕见病变或简单的基因突变，更绝无可能用传统的婴儿期夹板“人工束头”（headboarding/cradle-boarding）来解释。束头或许能改变骨骼生长的形状，但绝对无法无中生有地暴增颅内容量，更无法解释那双巨大得令人毛骨悚然的眼眶（eye sockets）。罗根比划着感叹，假如这样一个人顶着血肉之躯站在你面前，他的眼睛将大到超乎想象，其面部结构与常人相去甚远；如果这样的实物摆在博物馆里却连《纽约时报》头条都没上过，未引发全人类的彻底调查，简直不可思议。 - **颅容量异象**：人工束绑只能重塑形状，无法增加颅骨的实际内部容积，而部分秘鲁头骨的容积远超现代人。 - **眼窝与骨缝结构**：眼眶尺寸远大于普通人类，且位置与角度异化，缺失常规人体的额顶解剖标志。 - **主流考古争议**：主流学术界倾向于将其全部归因于人工颅骨变形术（Artificial Cranial Deformation），但二人认为这种解释在解剖学极端案例面前站不住脚。 ### [46:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2761s) 红色毛发、容貌复原与玛雅神庙的心灵感应遐想杰米调出了更多角度的头骨比对，甚至不小心点进了一个“大脚怪组织”（Sasquatch organization）的网页，引来罗根一通讽刺与幽默调侃，戏称大脚怪圈子内部也充斥着大量虚假信息。随后屏幕上显示出根据头骨进行的法医面部软组织复原图，画中人的双眼极其庞大，整个头颅斜向后方耸起。罗根笑称：“这幅复原画才算还原了神韵，你看着这家伙，你能说他不会读心术？” ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 古代原生细长头骨与后世模仿行为的假说演变 accDescr: 展示异形高阶人类存在导致普通人类进行束头模仿的推论脉络。 A["原始异常人种/群体 (超大颅容/红发/巨大眼眶)"] -->|"展现特殊精神感知与心灵感应能力"| B["被古人类崇拜为神明或统治阶层"] B -->|"后代人类试图复刻其尊贵外貌"| C["起源人工夹板束头习俗 (Cradle-Boarding)"] ``` 科普史密斯指出了另一个极为关键的考古实证：许多细长头骨出土时依然保留着残存毛发，而令人称奇的是，绝大多数毛发都呈现出纯正的红色（red hair）。罗根连连称奇，看着那张头戴珠饰、目光深邃且头颅巨大的复原形象，他感慨道：想象一下如果你身处数千年前，在玛雅神庙的台阶上迎面撞见这样一个顶着硕大脑袋和巨大双眼的红发怪人走下来，对你说“跟我走吧”，你当场就会缴械投降，心想“我的天，原来传说中的神是真的，我们现在大概得直接跟母舰通电话了”。两人一致认为，这种生物无论在生理构造还是感知潜能上，都极可能代表着一种迥异于普通人类的未知存在。 ### [48:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=2895s) 异常巨大的头骨、矢状缝缺失与黑市文物盗窃谈话从人类大脑的演化与古怪头盖骨的谜团切入。Joe Rogan 指出，大脑是人类与地球上其他智慧生物最根本的区别；如果存在一种外表看起来酷似人类，脑容量却远大于现代人的生物，那究竟会是什么？Cassie Coppersmith 强调这些并不是编造出来的地摊传说，那些头骨是实打实存在的。她提到，自己去过的全球博物馆中，唯一一处公开立牌提及该遗骸可能与“外星生命”相关的地方是马耳他（Malta）的国家博物馆。展厅入口的标牌不仅写明了头骨缺乏矢状缝（sagittal suture）的解剖学异常，甚至还印有外星人图像，并且将这些头骨公开展列。相比之下，秘鲁南部等地的博物馆则采取了截然相反的态度——他们把拉长头骨塞进昏暗的玻璃陈列柜，极力限制游客拍照，避免引人注目。两人随后谈到文物被藏匿乃至倒卖的深层原因：除了保密动机，还有对盗窃的担忧。Cassie 指出古董界存在一个庞大的地下黑市，腰缠万贯的富豪们热衷于私下收购埃及古物等珍稀文物。这直接导致管理文物的相关官员深陷丑闻：文物神秘失踪，某些学者拿着微薄的体制内薪水，写着无人问津的专著，转眼间却名下多出了豪宅。如果一个公职人员能顺手牵羊带走一件价值连城的古石瓶或遗骨并卖入黑市，其获利将远远超出在政府部门工作一辈子的薪水。更诡异的是骨骼的失踪事件——早期的官方发掘记录明确记载在石棺中发现了人类骨架，可几十年后官方却矢口否认，宣称“石棺里空无一物”，昔日的发掘记录被凭空抹去。 - 马耳他博物馆公开展示无矢状缝的古老头骨，并在标牌上探讨非寻常人类起源的可能。 - 秘鲁南部博物馆倾向于将异常头骨置于暗箱，限制公众拍照与扩散。 - 埃及文物管理体系中存在严重的黑市流出与腐败问题，珍贵文物及骨骼经常神秘失踪。 --- ### [50:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3012s) 巨人的全球传说与化石记录的严苛现实围绕那些巨大头骨的物理比例，Joe Rogan 推断：除非该物种拥有不成比例的畸形大头配侏儒身躯，否则按照正常的体型比例还原，头骨的主人生前身高极可能达到 7 到 8 英尺（约 2.1 至 2.4 米）。Cassie 附和道，全球几乎每一个古老文明的神话体系中，以及《圣经》的记载里，都充斥着关于“巨人”的传说。她坚信这些记载绝非古人的凭空臆造或纯粹神话，而是人类集体潜意识对遥远历史的真实“记忆”（remembering）。 Joe Rogan 赞同这一观点，认为过去极可能存在完全不同的人类物种或亚种。然而，现代人探寻真相的最大瓶颈在于残酷的化石记录机理。生物遗骸要变成化石，需要极度严苛、巧合的环境。对于普通的现代人而言，死亡一千年后尸骨早已被土壤完全降解吸收，后人绝不可能找到丁点痕迹。面对数千年前的骨骼尚有一丝侥幸存留，但如果溯源至一万、一万五千甚至五万年前，地表基本不可能保留骨骼。唯一的例外是阿拉斯加等地的永久冻土层。Joe 提到了他的朋友 John Reeves 在阿拉斯加经营的著名古生物挖掘点“白骨营地”（The Boneyard）。在那里，冻土中出土了大量匪夷所思的古生物骨骼，包括原本被学界认定绝不可能在该地区生活的猛兽、猫科动物与熊类，正在彻底重写冰川期的生物地理分布图。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 远古智慧物种遗骸消逝与化石缺失逻辑 accDescr: 说明生物死亡后因葬俗及自然降解导致无法留存化石，从而使传统考古陷入记录缺失的链条。 subgraph Burial["死亡与葬俗方式"] A["常规土葬或地表埋葬"] B["火葬焚化"] C["天葬（如藏地天葬，猛禽啄食）"] end subgraph Decay["地质与时间作用"] D["土壤微生物与酸碱度分解"] E["骨骼被完全吸收，无化石化条件"] end subgraph Result["现代考古现状"] F["一万至五万年前遗骸彻底湮灭"] G["化石记录仅占实际生物史极微小比例"] H["传统线性历史无法反映物种全貌"] end A --> D B --> E C --> E D --> E E --> F F --> G G --> H ``` - 恐龙在地球上漫游了数亿年，但今天人类发掘并记录的恐龙化石仅占实际存在总量的沧海一粟，无数物种早已彻底湮灭。 - 若远古智慧人类践行火葬或类似西藏天葬的习俗，或者仅仅是普通深埋，历经上万年后均不会留下任何可供现代人发掘的骨骼化石。 --- ### [53:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3191s) 学术界“种族主义”标签与地质侵蚀的铁证谈到探索远古文明的阻碍时，两人指出传统的学院派体系往往墨守成规。然而，互联网的信息平权打破了这一垄断，像 Michael Button（通过扎实考证梳理正统时间线盲点）和 Jimmy Corsetti 这类年轻的研究者与创作者，正借助 YouTube 等网络媒介为公众提供更为客观多元的视角。然而，这些体制外研究者往往会遭遇主流学术圈的猛烈攻击，其中最常见的扣帽子手段就是指责非主流历史假说涉嫌“种族主义”（Racism）。 Joe Rogan 极其敏锐地拆解了这一指控的荒谬逻辑：体制外学者主张印度神庙或秘鲁巨石遗迹年代远早于传统断代，并不是否认这些建筑出自当地先民之手；恰恰相反，他们强调的是印度的先祖或大洪水前的秘鲁人类，在数万年前就已经掌握了高度精密的工程技术。“如果将埃及文明的时间线推早到两万年前，这本该是让现代埃及人双倍自豪的辉煌历史，”Joe 强调，将古迹追溯至前洪水时期的本土高等文明，非但与种族主义无关，反而是对原住民先祖技术高度的极致推崇。主流考古学最大的软肋在于对硬核地质学证据的盲目排斥： - **降水侵蚀的物理铁证**：降雨经过数千年打磨会在岩石表面留下极具特征的垂直冲刷痕迹，这是无法造假的地质学物理铁证。主流考古学家咬定吉萨金字塔群建于公元前 2500 年，却对狮身人面像周围明显的垂直水力侵蚀视而不见。 - **波士顿大学地质学家 Robert Schoch 的贡献**：由于 Robert Schoch 拥有终身教职（tenure）且本职是硬科学领域的“地质学家”而非考古学家，主流学界无法从学术资历或地质测量方法上推翻他关于降水侵蚀的严谨结论。考古学本应以地质学发现为基石来修正历史假说，现实中却本末倒置。 - **Ben van Kerkwyk 的现场勘测**：独立研究员 Ben van Kerkwyk（UnchartedX 频道主理人）对金字塔群基底及周边结构进行了详尽的侵蚀模式分析，指出底层存在明显的叠代建造痕迹，最底部的古老核心层经历过令人匪夷所思的极重度物理与化学风化。 --- ### [56:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3363s) 柬埔寨吴哥窟的断代困境与地质风化层 Cassie 结合自己实地调研柬埔寨的经历，指出了东南亚文明断代中存在的类似顽疾。在吴哥窟（Angkor Wat）周边核心区域，矗立着 8 座极其庞大的石制金字塔形建筑。按照官方的正统历史编年，这些巨石建筑被草率地断代在公元 900 年至 1300 年之间，历史跨度非常短暂。然而，当研究者真正走近这些金字塔、亲眼审视那些巨石本体时，就会发现与埃及遗址完全相同的景象：石块表面布满了极尽沧桑的深层风化侵蚀沟槽，整个遗址明显经历过多轮跨越漫长时间维度的重构与叠代修缮。Cassie 批评道，主流历史学界完全排斥任何讨论吴哥古迹早于公元 800 年的可能性，而大众一旦戴上正统教科书的时间滤镜，虽然会赞叹吴哥窟的宏伟壮丽，却会彻底忽视石头本身所诉说的那段被强行截断的深邃古史。 ### [57:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3431s) 吴哥窟的多层演变与古老核心之谜卡西·考珀史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）与乔·罗根探讨了吴哥窟（Angkor Wat）真正的建造年代。坊间与学界许多人并不完全笃信主流历史叙事，卡西认为它存在始建于 11,000 年甚至 12,000 年前的可能性，甚至可能更为久远。在她看来，只要实地审视吴哥窟核心区域的建筑构造，这种超乎想象的年代假说便显得非常合情合理。吴哥窟的整体建筑呈现出鲜明的“三层结构”，最里面的核心部分年代极其古老，中心耸立着五座中央宝塔，其石料风化严重，外观甚至“看起来几乎呈现出熔融般的质感”。更引人注目的是整座建筑群的雕刻图像演化。吴哥窟最核心区域的石雕全部是纯粹的宗教图腾、神明与神圣象征；然而一旦从核心向外层移动，雕刻内容便陡然转向了凡俗的杀戮与征伐——到处是战象、战争场面以及血腥的军队搏杀。这种由内向外、从纯粹神性到世俗暴力的转变，清晰地证明了是后世不同的文明在极度古老的吴哥核心结构外层不断加盖与扩建。核心部分呈现出一种难以磨灭的高古岁月感，与外围的后期扩建形成了截然不同的对照。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 吴哥窟层级演进与雕刻主题变化 accDescr: 展示从吴哥窟远古核心向外层扩建演变的过程，内层为神明图腾，外层为战争与战象。 subgraph Core["内层核心结构（年代极古老）"] C1["五座中央宝塔（外观近乎熔融风化）"] C2["神明图腾与纯粹宗教符号"] end subgraph Outer["外层加盖结构（后世王朝扩建）"] O1["战象与宏大战争冲杀场景"] O2["外层回廊与世俗军事叙事"] end Core -->|后世文明在此基础上向外扩建| Outer ``` ### [58:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3493s) 2012 年激光雷达勘测与丛林下的几何奇观在乔·罗根和制作人杰米（Jamie）调阅照片时，他们先是惊叹于巴戎寺（Bayon Temple）由独立巨石砌成、雕有 218 张巨大神秘微笑面孔的震撼结构，随后卡西提到了 2012 年对柬埔寨进行的革命性激光雷达（LiDAR）航测。这项勘测彻底颠覆了全球考古界对吴哥遗址群规模的认知。在茂密的丛林树冠之下，激光雷达穿透林木，揭示了肉眼完全无法察觉的大规模地下与地表人工结构。在吴哥窟巨大的护城河内外，密密麻麻分布着规模极其庞大的规则土丘群（Moundfields）。特别是在吴哥窟的正南方，激光雷达拍摄到了连绵一英里（约 1.6 公里）长的大型几何螺旋状土方路堤。此前没有任何人知道这些结构的存在，哪怕当地土丘每座宽度可达 30 英尺（约 9 米），且以 10×10 的精确阵列工整排列。主流学界迄今为止完全拿不出合理解释，只能含糊地猜测它们可能是“花园景观”或“渔业设施”，但在茂密丛林中耗费举国之力堆筑一英里长的完美几何螺旋，显然背后有着更严密的工程目的。 - **巴戎寺面孔**：由一块块独立石材拼砌而成，共雕刻有 218 张巨大的神佛面容，建筑风格与一体雕凿的石窟大相径庭。 - **2012 激光雷达考古突破**：穿透柬埔寨热带雨林树冠，发现大片被丛林吞没的古城网络与几何工程。 - **土丘阵列与螺旋堤**：吴哥窟外围分布着 10×10 排列、单座宽达 30 英尺的土丘群，以及横跨一英里长的巨型完美螺旋形土堤。 ### [01:00:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3627s) 西池水利奇迹：53 座金字塔的惊人土方量卡西指着航拍图向罗根展示了吴哥古城最震撼的工程之一——西池（Western Baray）。这是地球上已知最大的人工开凿蓄水池，长达 8 公里、宽 2 公里，南邻旧暹粒国际机场（Siem Reap International Airport），其宏大体量在卫星图像上甚至能从太空中清晰俯瞰。官方考古学宣称，西池始建于公元 900 年左右，完全由人工用铁锹手工挖出，专门用于水稻灌溉。并且在遗址东侧，还存在着一个同样长 8 公里、宽 2 公里的东池（Eastern Baray）。为了让人们对西池的规模建立直观感受，卡西列举了惊人的工程数据：西池深度在 5 到 10 米左右，仅开挖西池所移走的泥土体量就高达 1.38 亿立方米，相当于把 53 座吉萨大金字塔（Giza Pyramids）的体积全部换成泥土搬运走。虽然工匠可能将挖掘出的泥土直接筑成了高耸的外部护堤，但主流历史学仅凭石碑上的铭文就将这些宏伟得不可思议的工程草草归功于某个特定的吴哥国王，却对如何组织这种神级体量的土方搬运、精确的水力力学测量闭口不谈，使得柬埔寨成为了全球最神秘的工程谜题聚集地。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 西池人工水利工程体量对照 accDescr: 展现西池长宽规模与挖掘出的泥土等效于53座吉萨金字塔的惊人工程量。 subgraph Dimensions["蓄水池几何尺寸"] D1["长 8 公里"] D2["宽 2 公里"] D3["深度 5-10 米"] end subgraph Volume["工程开挖总量"] V1["1.38 亿立方米土石"] V2["等同于 53 座吉萨大金字塔体量"] end Dimensions --> Volume ``` ### [01:02:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3771s) 凯拉萨神庙的开凿神话与统治者的毁灭狂怒西池不可思议的手工挖掘量让罗根联想到了印度埃洛拉的凯拉萨神庙（Kailasa Temple）。杰米调出利用 AI 引擎 Perplexity 检索出的工程数据：传统主流观点声称，凯拉萨神庙是由仅仅 250 名工人在短短五年半时间内，从坚硬的玄武岩山体自上而下手工开凿出来的。罗根打趣说“我真想把这群神人雇来干活”，因为只要动笔算一算每日必须敲凿与运走的石料吨位，这个官方数字在物理上就极其荒谬。更具讽刺意味的对照发生在后世的破坏行动中。历史记载，莫卧儿帝国皇帝奥朗则布曾极度仇视这座神庙，下令必须将其彻底摧毁。他派遣了整整 1,000 名配备铁制工具的壮汉前往破坏，人数是当初传说建造者的四倍之多。然而这支拆迁大军整整砸了三年，除了凿烂几尊雕像的表面之外，整座一体成型的巨石神庙几乎毫发无损，最终皇帝只能挫败地放弃。罗根感叹，面对无法征服的神迹，古代君王那种暴怒、任性又无能为力的姿态，正是“君主专制最令人厌恶的通病”。 ### [01:04:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3880s) 荔枝山顶被遗忘的古城与颠倒的地层逻辑在罗根给卡西递上一杯咖啡后，话题转到了卡西最初涉足柬埔寨研究的机缘。三年多前，卡西原本计划前往越南徒步世界最大的洞穴——韩松洞（Sơn Đoòng Cave），顺道拐到隔壁的柬埔寨待了一周。在聘请当地向导游览古迹时，她敏锐地察觉到了官方说辞与眼前实物之间的巨大矛盾。导游按照标准历史课本宣称，当地文明起初只会烧制红砖建造神庙，历经几个世纪发展后才掌握了开采与雕凿巨石的高级技术。然而卡西实地观察发现，在那些体量骇人的巨石金字塔顶端，竟然整整齐齐地叠压着简陋的红砖结构——如果砖石技术更古老，为何更古老的砖反而压在更先进、更庞大的巨石基座上方？这种地层逻辑的倒挂促使卡西深入挖掘 2012 年激光雷达测绘的原始报告。勘测数据显示，在吴哥窟砂岩石材的源头采石场——荔枝山（Phnom Kulen）高原顶部，竟然深埋着一整座完全不为人知的大型古城市。那座高原古城里不仅有金字塔、占地 2,000 英亩的巨型人工水库、绵延的土方堤道，还有庞大的几何土丘阵列，全部隐匿于遮天蔽日的原始雨林之下。卡西强调，这本应轰动全球，但主流舆论却对此轻描淡写。结合吴哥窟南方一英里长的巨大几何螺旋堤，卡西正在完善自己的新假说：这些精密的庞大阵列绝非无意义的景观，而是一整套从荔枝山向下导流、蓄水与分流的高度发达水力调控系统。 ### [01:07:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4032s) 庞大的古代水利系统与对“水处理”的猜想卡西·考珀史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）指出，古代工程师从距吴哥窟（Angkor Wat）约50英里外的库伦山（Phnom Kulen）引水，修建了长达16公里的引水分流渠。他们将水流引向极远的地方，穿过一片片土丘地带，汇入巨大的蓄水池中。引人注目的是，所有这些大型蓄水池都与金字塔结构紧密相连，形成了一套连续的水库系统——中心是神庙，外围连着金字塔。卡西感叹，这整体看起来就像是一项极其庞大的工业级工程。谈及建造目的，卡西表示自己曾反复权衡这是否与“能源生产”有关。不过，她个人更倾向于认为这与水质处理（water treatment）存在某种联系。她推测，古人可能试图让水形成特定的“结构化水”（structured water），从而对植物生长、人类与动物的健康乃至人类的意识状态产生积极影响。卡西批评道，主流考古界几乎完全忽略了这项浩大工程背后的深刻内涵，没有任何学者将这些分散的水利系统串联起来深入探究其宏大意图，官方叙事草草地将其一概归结为“只是为了水稻灌溉”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 古高棉水利工程布局推测 accDescr: 展示从库伦山引水到吴哥水库、金字塔及神庙的结构化水系推测 subgraph Source["水源地"] A["库伦山 (Phnom Kulen) 距吴哥窟约50英里"] end subgraph Conduit["引水网络"] B["16公里人工分流渠"] C["大面积人工土丘区 (Moundfields)"] end subgraph Complex["蓄水与建筑复合体"] D["巨型蓄水池 (Barays)"] E["中心神庙 (Central Temples)"] F["外围金字塔结构 (Pyramids)"] end A --> B B --> C C --> D D <--> E D <--> F ``` --- ### [01:08:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4102s) 激光雷达下的惊人结构与被挖穿的远古遗迹乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）请工作人员重新调出此前提到的激光雷达（LiDAR）扫描图像，希望看清隐藏在地表下的几何规律。屏幕上展现的图形让两人连连称奇：那些由激光雷达剥离丛林后显现的矩形结构长达一英里、宽达半英里，呈现出极其惊人且完美的对称性，而且这种构造在柬埔寨全境并不罕见。乔·罗根感叹，这背后必然存在一个技术高度成熟且精密的远古文明。卡西指着画面说明，在那个巨型结构正中央挖开的护城河，实际上建于高棉时期（Khmer Empire）——而官方往往将当地所有的远古奇迹通通归功于高棉人。她指出，高棉人当年很可能根本不知道脚下沉睡着什么，因为地表早已被泥土和丛林彻底覆盖，他们只是径直从那个古老构造的中心硬生生挖了过去。这也证明该结构极其古老，历经不同时代的族群在此重叠居住。为了说明古代柬埔寨几乎“每一寸土地都被工程化改造过”，卡西举了距离吴哥窟东北约200英里的贡开（Koh Ker）遗址为例：考古人员通过LiDAR在那里发现了一道长达7公里的人工大坝，蓄积出了占地2,000英亩的巨型水库。卡西还分享了自己去年11月与研究者德里克·奥尔森（Derek Olson）带团考察吴哥窟角落土丘的经历。她回忆说，站在地面上时，人们完全察觉不到土丘的存在，只有走上去后环顾四周，才会惊觉自己比周边地面高出了好几英尺；这些土丘横跨达30英尺宽，走着走着又不知不觉下到了谷底。正因为规模太庞大，如果没有航空激光雷达剥去丛林树冠的透视能力，普通人在地面上根本不可能识破这些绵延数公里的史前遗迹与堤坝。 --- ### [01:11:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4263s) 丛林的吞噬与古今建筑工艺的巨大落差两人随后观察到航拍图景中自然力量对人造建筑的蚕食。乔·罗根看到树木根系破石而出的画面，忍不住赞叹大自然与石雕交融的视觉冲击。卡西提到，画面中正是著名的塔普伦寺（Ta Prohm），也就是安吉丽娜·朱莉拍摄电影《古墓丽影》（Lara Croft: Tomb Raider）的取景地。谈到当地的文物保护现状，卡西表示柬埔寨文物部门面临着极其严峻的挑战，因为热带丛林正积极而暴力地摧毁这些建筑。参天大树的盘根错节不断将砖石撬碎，乔·罗根也指出，树根终究会压垮并粉碎下方的所有石块。不过卡西强调了一个显著的建筑差异：真正古老的建筑（例如金字塔）对于这种自然侵蚀具有更强的抵抗力；反而是较为后期的神庙（如高棉人后期加盖或仿造的庙宇）建筑工艺较差，树木很容易就将其撕裂扯垮。她指出，从20世纪20年代法国人最早发掘金字塔的照片来看，那些真正古老的核心阶梯金字塔历经千百年依然保存完好无损，足见不同历史阶段建造技艺的断层。 --- ### [01:12:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4330s) 吴哥窟核心神殿的浮雕艺术与意识退化论乔·罗根询问吴哥窟中心区域与外围结构在视觉和时代风格上的差异。卡西解释说，吴哥窟从外到内共有三层台基，越往中心地势越高。在最核心的中央塔楼区域，石雕工艺令人叹为观止，且所有的雕刻题材全都是纯粹的灵性神像与神明，完全没有任何世俗冲突。卡西提到，这种中心雕刻是全封闭的高浮雕三维立体艺术，石雕后方甚至留有空隙，薄薄的一张口香糖包装纸都能完整地从雕像石隙后方穿过去。卡西对比道，她在印度考察时也发现了完全相同的规律：在最古老的建筑核心，所有图像都在表达崇高的精神、冥想与神性境界；而随着年代向外推移、建筑越来越新，浮雕的主题却不可逆转地变成了残酷血腥的战争与杀戮场面。在卡西看来，这清晰地记录了“人类意识的退化”（the devolution of human consciousness）。乔·罗根随之联想到古代印度哲学中的“尤迦周期”（Yuga cycles）概念，即人类意识与文明在约12,000年前达到顶峰，随后陷入缓慢而长期的退化下行期。吴哥窟呈现出的艺术断层正是这一假说的写照：最早的原生建造者对外围描绘的世俗征战毫无兴趣，具备高度开悟的觉知，而外圈密密麻麻的战争壁画则是后世意识退化后的附庸产物。 --- ### [01:14:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4461s) 碳十四定年的漏洞与考古学的循环论证当乔·罗根问及目前学术界是否有任何具备坚实证据的学说来解释这些遗迹的真实建造年代时，卡西给出了否定的回答。她直言，官方现存的断代依据漏洞百出，因为石建筑本身无法直接进行放射性碳测年（carbon dating），学者只能采集夹杂在建筑中的木样或有机质进行测定。卡西列举了两个核心矛盾： - **修缮木材的年代倒挂**：以巴孔寺（Bakong）为例，它是主流考古界公认的柬埔寨最古老砂岩金字塔，官方通常断代在公元800年代左右。然而，考古团队在巴孔寺后期修复区域提取的木质门框样本，经碳十四测定却显示来自公元600年代。面对比既定建庙时间还早200年的结果，学者们却含糊其辞地声称“这大致处于同一历史时期”。卡西质问：如果高棉人在公元600年代使用的是木材与砖石对前代遗迹进行修缮，那么被他们修缮的核心金字塔本身究竟该有多古老？ - **碑文推论的循环逻辑**：主流考古学往往仅凭某处神庙里的一块刻石铭文来确定建造年份，随后如果发现另一座缺乏铭文的神庙外观或风格与前者相近，便立刻草率地将其划入同一个时代区间。乔·罗根与卡西一致认为，将修补材料的时间直接等同于原始核心结构的建造年代极其荒谬，这种生搬硬套以迎合既有历史框架的“循环论证”（circular logic），完全遮蔽了远古遗迹背后巨大的历史谜团。 ### [01:16:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4577s) 印度千吨花岗岩巴胡巴利巨像的视觉震撼在讨论完吴哥窟据称动用三十万劳工耗时三十年仍未彻底完工的官方记载后，卡西·科普史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）分享了她数周前在印度亲眼所见、也是她生平见过的最为震撼的古迹——巴胡巴利巨像（Bahubali / 戈默泰什瓦拉巨像）。这座雕像重达一千吨，高度约为六十英尺（约18米），不仅尺寸堪比埃及那些已被摧毁的庞大巨像，而且至今仍傲然矗立在一座花岗岩山顶之上。当杰米调出照片，展示雕像脚底站着一个渺小的人类对比时，乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）忍不住发出了惊叹。卡西指出，关于雕像是在别处雕刻后运上山顶，还是直接依托山顶天然基岩（活石，living stone）凿刻而成，学界一直存有争议，但她个人更倾向于是就地取材自山顶整块巨石。整座雕像采用硬度极高的白色花岗岩制成，其对称性与工艺精度令人难以置信，她直言“在我的认知里，这绝对是机械加工出来的”。雕像光是一只耳朵就有五点五英尺（约1.67米）长，嘴唇、指甲等每一处弧度都极为完美。雕像表现的是耆那教圣者巴胡巴利在冥想中伫立整整一年而悟道的场景，脚下爬满了蚁穴与眼镜蛇，藤蔓顺着他的手臂和身躯缠绕而上。卡西表示自己在雕像前足足入迷地静坐了两个小时；不同于湮没在雨林中风化坍塌的遗迹，印度这类神庙至今仍是社区信徒日常祈祷的“活庙宇”（living temples），使得这座庞然大物保存如新，看起来就像昨天才刚刚雕刻完成一样。 - **体量与规制**：雕像重达约 1,000 吨，高约 60 英尺，是全球现存体量最大的古代站立式整体石雕。 - **地理与材质**：位于印度卡纳塔克邦的什拉瓦那贝尔戈拉山顶，完全由极其坚硬的白色花岗岩雕成，雕像与周围寺庙相比高高耸立。 - **神话与宗教意象**：代表耆那教第一位达致解脱的圣者巴胡巴利，展现其纹丝不动伫立冥想一年、藤蔓与蛇虫附身的顿悟状态。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 古代巨石遗迹挪用与建造理论 accDescr: 解释卡西提出的后世统治者通过在精密古迹上刻写粗糙铭文来宣称合法性的演变过程。 subgraph Phase1["远古史前时期"] A["高超精密加工建造"] --> B["超大体量金字塔与巨石雕像 （如千吨巴胡巴利像、巨型金字塔）"] end subgraph Phase2["历史时期君王宣称权柄"] B --> C["后世国王发现宏伟古迹"] C --> D["在底座刻写粗糙铭文 ‘宣称归属’以借神权合法化统治"] end subgraph Phase3["资源枯竭与技艺退化"] D --> E["最宏伟古迹被瓜分殆尽"] E --> F["转向建造小型碎石结构 （如巴戎寺小石块拼接）"] end ``` --- ### [01:20:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4806s) 粗糙铭文的悬疑与高棉统治者的“借名”法则主流历史学界通常将巴胡巴利巨像的落成年份定在公元980年左右，但卡西和罗根随即对这一定论提出了犀利的质疑——因为断代的唯一依据，仅仅是刻在雕像基座边缘那几行极为拙劣、粗陋的后人题刻。罗根看着屏幕上那些歪歪扭扭、断续杂乱的刻痕，忍不住直言这些字迹看起来“极其粗糙劣质”（really shitty），与雕像本身精美绝伦的工艺形成了天壤之别的强烈反差。显然，后来的统治者只是随便挑了雕像底部的空隙刻上自己的名字，便单方面宣称“这是我造的”。为了解释这种现象，卡西援引了吴哥窟的一段文献记录进行类比：在高棉王朝时期，国王通过营建或供奉最宏伟的神庙来证明自己得到了神灵的青睐，从而合法化自身的王权。高棉王室的模式极为有趣——历代国王最先占有和据为己有的，无一例外是吴哥地区最精美、体量最大的梯形金字塔结构；当这些最顶级的金字塔被瓜分完毕后，后继的君王才退而求其次去认领大型巴莱蓄水池（Barays）和女王宫（Banteay Srei）这类华丽的红砂岩神庙。卡西认为，在柬埔寨乃至印度都发生过同样的情况：后世的统治者踏入这片土地，发现了前文明遗留下的超高水准奇迹，为了宣示统治权，他们最廉价的手段就是在上面刻下自己的名字占为己有；直到前代遗产被认领殆尽，他们才被迫动用碎石和低水准工艺建造像巴戎寺（Bayon）那样的建筑。 - **断代争议依据**：官方将其归属于公元 980 年左右，完全是依据雕像脚边雕工极差的文字题刻。 - **高棉王权神授模式**：古代君王必须证明神祇居住于其神庙内，以此压制政敌并建立威权。 - **建筑时间线倒挂反常**：在柬埔寨，最古老、被最先认领的遗迹往往工艺最高超（大型金字塔），而后代新建的建筑反而充斥着细碎小石块与较低的施工水准。 --- ### [01:22:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4937s) 极致对称度、神秘颈纹与远古机械论随着细节图像的放大，两人进一步观察巴胡巴利像不可思议的微观尺寸：它的单根脚趾长达三英尺（约0.9米），耳朵比一个成年人的整个身躯还要巨大。在公元十世纪前后，当地工匠所拥有的金属工具仅限于简单的铁制凿子与铁锤。罗根感叹，在那个部落与王国战火纷飞的年代，人们怎么可能仅凭铁凿和双手，耗费难以想象的时间在一整座坚硬的花岗岩山顶敲凿出如此绝对对称的旷世巨作。卡西特别提醒杰米将镜头对焦在雕像的颈部，展示其喉部雕刻的规则环状纹路。她强调，这种极其规律的颈部线条并非个例，在柬埔寨的大型古雕像以及埃及的法老巨像上，都能找到几乎一致的颈部环线设计。罗根开玩笑地联想起现代雕刻的拉什莫尔山（总统山），但随即清醒地意识到，美国人建造总统山时不仅晚了一千年，还大量使用了现代炸药、风钻与重型机械。巴胡巴利像矗立在开阔的高山之巅，其宁静祥和的面容甚至在方圆五十英里之外都能被肉眼清晰望见。卡西通过航拍视角的画面总结道，这种超自然般的精密度和对称性，无论怎么看都带着机械切削般的痕迹，完全颠覆了现代人对古代冶金与建筑工程能力的认知。 - **惊人尺寸比例**：雕像脚趾长 3 英尺，耳朵长达 5.5 英尺，整体比例保持了超乎寻常的严谨几何对称。 - **神秘的跨文明特征**：雕像颈部独特的同心环纹，与埃及巨型法老雕像、柬埔寨高棉巨像的颈部刻线惊人相似。 - **超远视距**：雕像位于山巅制高点，在晴好天气下，方圆 50 英里（约 80 公里）范围内的广袤平原均可远眺其身影。 ### [01:25:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5118s) 巨石雕刻的工程谜团与耆那教朝圣圣地乔·罗根对眼前展现的巨石雕像感到极度震撼，直言自己此前从未听说过这个遗迹。罗根推测这最初可能只是一块耸立在此的原生巨石，工匠们将其多余的部分一点点凿除才雕刻而成。卡西·考珀史密斯指出，目前存在两种可能性：第一，它确实可能是一整块原本就在这里的巨岩被削凿出来的，但若仔细观察雕像右侧的岩石，会发现那些未加工的石质与雕像本身的质感截然不同，且需要去除的废石量极其庞大；第二，这块巨石可能是从别处搬运至此的。如果它真的是被运上来的，那需要将一块极其庞大的巨石运上高达650英尺的山顶并将其竖立起来，以现代所知的技术根本无法解释。然而即使它原本就是山顶上独立存在的孤石，要在坚硬的花岗岩上凿出近乎完美对称、视觉上极具“机械加工感”（machined）的线条，本身也是一项不可思议的工程奇迹。卡西描述了亲自前往这一圣地的震撼经历。朝圣者必须徒步攀登大约650级台阶才能到达山顶。由于这是一座至今仍在运作的现役神庙，所有人进庙都必须赤脚。卡西回忆道，他们下山时地面被晒得滚烫，由于没有鞋底隔热，脚底几乎要被烫伤。当罗根调侃说“连袜子都不能穿吗”时，卡西解释其实可以穿袜子，但石阶极其光滑容易滑倒，罗根随即打趣说应该穿那种练普拉提专用的防滑点胶袜（grippy socks）。更令卡西动容的是，这里至今仍被耆那教徒奉为神圣之地。信徒们络绎不绝地前来朝圣，每隔12年还会举行一次盛大的灌顶仪式（Mahamastakabhisheka）。届时人们会搭建起巨大的脚手架，爬到巨像头顶，将牛奶、蜂蜜等圣物自上而下倾倒浇注。卡西分享了他在现场感受到的强烈精神能量：“坐在这个造像面前，你会感到一种被治愈的力量。”他和哥哥在赶飞机前的最后一刻，依依不舍地在雕像前静坐了数小时，根本不想离开。 - 雕像位于约650英尺高的山顶，需要赤脚攀爬约650级台阶到达。 - 雕刻工艺呈现出惊人的几何对称与光滑平整的机械加工质感。 - 每隔12年举行一次重大灌顶仪式，信徒从脚手架上向雕像倾倒牛奶和蜂蜜等供品。 --- ### [01:27:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5252s) 失落的远古文明与跨越纪元的宏大神话看着这些古老的痕迹，罗根提出了核心疑问：一万到一万两千年前的远古文明究竟达到了怎样的高度？大洪水究竟冲刷、吞噬了多少珍贵的知识与信息？卡西顺势谈到了耆那教的神话宇宙观。在耆那教的宇宙学中，时间被划分为无数个以不可估量的年岁计算的大周期与半周期。每个时期都会出现被称为“蒂尔丹嘉拉”（Tirthankara，即渡津者或开道者）的觉悟者。在这段远古传说中，第一位蒂尔丹嘉拉的儿子巴胡巴利（Bahubali）被描述为身高超过一英里的彻底开悟者，其寿命长达数百万年。卡西指出，山顶上雕刻的这些宏伟巨像，正是这些跨越久远纪元的觉悟者的形象。古老神话中漫长到近乎抽象的时间尺度，与这些至今耸立在山巅的神秘造像交织在一起，昭示着远古历史远比现代教科书所记录的更加漫长与深邃。 --- ### [01:28:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5327s) 湿婆林伽：从性力图腾到远古能量装置的猜想谈及古代经文中的超常现象，罗根提到了吠陀文献中记录的飞行器维摩那（Vimāna），以及古籍中那些极其酷似现代核武器的描写——其威力毁天灭地，使用时不仅有着严格的条件限制，还必须获得最高权限。卡西随后将话题引向另一个神秘的标志物——湿婆林伽（Shiva Lingam）。在印度常规神庙中，湿婆林伽通常被解释为男性生殖器置于代表女性的约尼（Yoni）之中，象征阴阳两极的结合，其尺寸通常较小，仅有两三英尺长。但在柬埔寨和印度的一些巨石遗址中，存在着规模极其惊人的巨型林伽。例如柬埔寨的贡开（Koh Ker）遗址，以及位于大水库（Baray）旁的巴肯山（Phnom Bakheng）顶，都能看到长达近20英尺的巨石林伽；在印度的亨比（Hampi）遗址，甚至留存着原本高达40英尺的庞然大物。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Shiva Lingam Architectural and Mythological Correlation accDescr: Diagram showing the physical site characteristics of megalithic Shiva Lingams and their description in ancient texts as energy structures. subgraph SiteCharacteristics["巨石林伽遗址物理特征"] A["巨型花岗岩柱 (高达20至40英尺)"] B["无顶露天神庙 (Roofless Shrines)"] C["朝向正北 (Aligned North)"] D["紧邻大型水体/水利系统 (Water Features)"] end subgraph AncientTexts["古代经文记述与能量假说"] E["经文描述: '无尽的光与火之柱'"] F["非单纯生殖崇拜，或为远古能量/动力装置"] end SiteCharacteristics --> AncientTexts ``` 卡西强调，如果翻阅古代原始文献，湿婆林伽最初被描绘为“无尽的光与火之柱”（infinite pillars of light and fire）。结合其实地考察所见的物理构造，这些巨型林伽几乎全都遵循着非常严苛的建造范式：它们无一例外地矗立在没有屋顶的露天神殿中央，始终朝向正北，并且周围一定环绕着大规模的水体或水渠。卡西直言，他不相信这仅仅是现代人所定义的生殖图腾或宗教雕刻，更可能是某种利用水能运作的强大远古能量发生装置。 - 亨比遗址的巨型林伽高达40英尺，置于无顶殿堂内，并非现代AI生成的虚构图像。 - 巨石林伽布局具备高度一致性：方位严格面北、露天无顶、与复杂的水体环绕系统深度绑定。 - 古籍将其记载为“光与火的无尽柱石”，暗示其潜在的非机械能源装置属性。 --- ### [01:32:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5532s) 技术演进的盲区与考古界的“权威门禁” 面对林伽可能是某种发电或动力装置的推测，罗根指出人类思考“科技”时，往往受限于现代既有的认知框架。现代人类是通过内燃机、电磁感应和半导体晶体管逐步建立起文明的，但远古文明完全可能走向了一条截然不同的技术演化路径，并以非机械、非现代电子学的形态实现了同样甚至更高的精密程度。将当下基于化石能源与机械结构的道路视为科技发展的“唯一可能”，本身就是一种思维狭隘。两人随后探讨了现代社会的精神病态与历史叙事的关联。卡西认为，现代人在心理和生理层面都饱受慢性病与痛苦的折磨，人均寿命的增长在很大程度上只是依赖医疗技术的强行维持。权力机构与主流话语体系之所以排斥“失落黄金时代”的假说，是因为让大众相信“我们正处于人类历史上最好、最辉煌的顶峰”，在政治和心理上都更容易维持现状。罗根对这种“刻意隐瞒”的阴谋论持更为谨慎的态度。他认为，主流学界的抵制未必源于高层的蓄意压制，更多是传统考古学家在维护自身的信念体系。很多抱残守缺的主流学者对反常证据视而不见，甚至对葛瑞姆·汉卡克（Graham Hancock）等学者发起近乎失智的人身攻击，其根源在于学术界的“门禁效应”（gatekeeping）与对“权威论证”（appeal to expertise）的病态依赖。罗根尖锐地指出，在面对根本无法通过常规碳-14手段测定建造年代的巨石建筑时，根本没有谁能真正自封为“专家”，坦白承认“我们目前其实一无所知”或对未知保持开放，才是一个诚实探索者应有的科学态度。 ### [01:34:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5694s) 考古学范式转移：伴随葬礼前进的科学与地底雷达扫描乔·罗根与卡西·科普史密斯探讨了主流学术界对史前“黄金时代”的抗拒态度。卡西指出，传统学者根本不愿去设想曾存在一个精神文明高度发达、拥有超越时代技术的辉煌古老时期。罗根对此援引了一句著名的科学界箴言——“科学是伴随着一次又一次的葬礼向前推进的”（science moves on and progresses one funeral at a time）。在他看来，传统考古学界也是如此，老一代抱残守缺的研究者必须逐渐退出舞台，而正在成长的新一代学者则在通过 YouTube 汲取知识、阅读突破性论文，并开始正视研究员菲利波·比翁迪（Filippo Biondi）在金字塔地底探测到的非凡结构，公开要求权威“给出合理解释”。主流学界试图对这些颠覆性证据置若罔闻，但探测所使用的遥感测绘技术早已在其他硬核科研领域得到证实。罗根强调，这套卫星雷达技术曾被用来精确测绘深埋于山体内部 1.2 公里处的粒子对撞机，其实际测量数据与已知结构的物理尺寸完全契合。“如果你相信科学，这项技术就摆在那里”，它能精准复现已知深埋地物的尺寸，就证明技术本身毫无问题。主流机构之所以拒绝讨论，是因为一旦比翁迪关于金字塔地底深层结构的发现属实，现有的整套人类历史时间线将彻底化为乌有，正如罗根感叹的那样：“我们对过去根本一无所知。” - **学术界代际更替**：老派学者回避远古先进文明论调，新一代研究者正通过互联网、开放论文与非主流遥感数据重新审视遗迹。 - **技术的可靠性验证**：用于扫描吉萨高原的遥感穿透技术，曾精准扫描位于山体地下 1.2 公里处的粒子对撞机，技术测量与工程图纸尺寸完全吻合。 - **历史时间线的颠覆**：若吉萨地下多层结构被实锤证实，现存古埃及文明的建造年代与技术演进史将被迫重写。 --- ### [01:36:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5788s) 吉萨高原的第二座狮身人面像：卫星扫描与AI模型验证卡西谈及菲利波·比翁迪刚公布的一项重磅研究：吉萨高原可能埋藏着“第二座狮身人面像”。从吉萨高原的对称布局来看，现有的狮身人面像位于东侧，两座大金字塔居中，如果在西侧对应位置存在第二座狮身人面像，在几何空间上完全说得通。相较于在胡夫金字塔下方开凿深层地下空腔所面临的重重审批与施工困难，挖掘这处疑似的第二座狮身人面像要简单得多——它仅被埋藏在一座巨大的沙丘之下，只要调动挖掘设备移走沙土，就能立刻验证比翁迪的技术是否准确。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 第二座狮身人面像探测与验证流程 accDescr: 菲利波·比翁迪通过卫星扫描、AI概率检验与现场发掘比对探索第二座狮身人面像的验证路径 subgraph ScanPhase ["遥感数据采集"] A["卫星穿透扫描数据 (SAR)"] --> B["三维地下地貌重建"] end subgraph AIPhase ["多模型概率交叉验证"] B --> C["提示词工程与输入数据"] C --> D["Grok 概率分析"] C --> E["Google Gemini 概率分析"] D --> F["结果：存在第二座雕像概率 > 80%"] E --> F end subgraph GroundPhase ["地面验证与历史对照"] F --> G["定位：吉萨高原西侧沙丘下方"] G --> H["历史文献比对 (如梦之石碑记录)"] G --> I["移除近代墓葬发掘堆积的覆沙"] end ``` 比翁迪在意大利举办的学术研讨会上展示了他从太空轨道采集的扫描图像，拼合后的地下构造轮廓与现存的狮身人面像惊人相似。为了排除主观偏差，比翁迪将扫描数据输入到 Grok、Google Gemini 等主流尖端大语言模型与人工智能系统中，询问根据雷达数据判断地下存在狮身人面像的概率有多大；各家 AI 经过运算后，几乎一致给出了超过 80% 的高置信度。此外，扫描还显示该地下结构内部同样存在空腔室，这与已知狮身人面像内部真实存在的空洞结构特征高度吻合。面对外界质疑的声音，罗根与卡西展开了针对性反驳： - **覆土来源争议**：质疑者称该沙丘只是 1930 年代考古发掘邻近墓葬时倾倒的近代废弃土堆；卡西指出比翁迪扫描到的实体轮廓位于这层近代人造堆土之下的更深基岩处。 - **文献与对称传统**：包括著名的“梦之石碑”（Dream Stele）在内的诸多古埃及传统文献与浮雕中，经常出现双狮身人面像并存的对称描绘。 - **历史埋没先例**：拿破仑于 18 世纪末远征埃及时，现有的狮身人面像整个躯干完全被黄沙淹没，仅有头部露在沙面之外。地貌与风沙堆积足以在数千年间将西侧的另一座巨像彻底掩埋。 --- ### [01:41:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6072s) 遥感技术与AI大模型交汇：古代文明解密黄金期卡西将目光投向未来五到十年，认为科技融合将彻底改写考古学范式。以柬埔寨利用机载激光雷达（LiDAR）穿透丛林发现庞大吴哥古城网络为开端，如今卫星轨道探测与人工智能正在引发深层质变。采矿公司、林业企业和环境科研机构多年来在全球积累了海量的 LiDAR 地表数据。如果能够利用人工智能将全球所有商业和科研扫描数据汇编整合、统一跑模型筛查，AI 将能在从未有人涉足的荒野中自动识别出前所未见的人工遗迹群，从根本上掀起考古认知风暴。罗根提到以技术攻克古籍文物的典型案例——维苏威挑战赛（Vesuvius Challenge）。在赫库兰尼姆和庞贝古城中被火山灰碳化、脆弱到一碰就碎的纸莎草卷轴，如今研究人员无需物理展开，通过高分辨率 CT 扫描与 AI 图像墨迹识别，就能直接穿透阅读里面的原始希腊与罗马文本。卡西补充道，世界上还有浩如烟海的文献未被释读，不仅包括像复活节岛“朗格朗格文”（Rongorongo）这种未破译的神秘符号，更有成千上万部无人有精力翻阅的古梵文泥板与手稿，其中隐藏的人类失落智慧无可限量。对谈尾声转向了这些古代巨石遗址的建造选址之谜。罗根感叹不仅现存建筑年代说不通，人类技术“线性发展”的假设也完全无法解释古人如何开采、搬运那些数百吨的巨石。卡西提出了一种古人看待世界的哲学视角：如果将地球比作人体，这些气势磅礴的古迹或许恰恰坐落在“地球的针灸穴位”上。古人刻意选择高能量地磁节点进行工程营建，使得任何人置身其间，身心都会感受到异乎寻常的磁场与精神共振。 - **维苏威挑战赛**：利用 X 射线层析扫描与 AI 算法，在完全不展开炭化卷轴的前提下逐层识别内部墨水笔迹。 - **未翻译文献蓝海**：涵盖复活节岛朗格朗格文字、大量未被学术界整理的印度古梵文文献等海量历史遗产。 - **非线性技术观**：主流历史无法合理解释万年前巨石移动技术与工艺断层，未来的十年技术爆发期将迫使学术界全盘重检人类早期文明史。 ### [01:43:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6230s) 远古遗址的特殊能量与四天荒野辟谷 Cassie Coppersmith 分享了自己在走访世界各地远古遗址时的亲身体验。每当她造访这些古老遗迹时，不仅常常会做各种极其特别的梦，更感受到一种难以言喻的能量共鸣。作为一个经常冥想的人，她发现在柬埔寨的金字塔顶端打坐时，意识会“瞬间入定”（drop in immediately），整个人与遗址的环境产生一种在普通场所绝不可能体验到的共振。因此，她坚信古代建造者绝非随意选址，而是出于极深的原因选择在特定地点筑造奇迹。 Joe Rogan 完全赞同这一点，并指出主流观念往往轻率地宣称“不同地点没有能量差异”，把一切归结为普通的地理构造，以为现代科学已经洞悉了一切。然而，大自然对人体的奇妙影响往往超越了现有的测量手段——例如森林浴（forest bathing）、拥抱树木以及赤脚接地气（grounding），已被证实对身心极有益处，但人类至今尚未完全理解其运作机制。随后，Cassie 讲述了自己在辞去企业白领工作后的疗愈经历：为了从高压的企业生活中彻底恢复，她模仿美洲原住民的“幻象探索”（Vision Quest），背着每天仅三升的饮用水，来到荒凉的山崖边进行了整整四天四夜的断食静修。没有任何食物，没有帐篷，身边除了一本笔记本日记外一无所有。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Vision Quest Stages accDescr: The four stages of Cassie Coppersmith's wilderness vision quest to heal from corporate life. subgraph S1["准备与断食"] A["断绝企业生活 每日仅带3升水"] --> B["前三天身体极度衰弱 杂念渐渐归于死寂"] end subgraph S2["蜕变与新生"] B --> C["第四夜：石头摆圈 整夜仰望星空守夜"] C --> D["黎明破晓 脱胎换骨的全新自我"] end ``` - **荒野静默的感悟**：随着断食进入第三天，肉体变得虚弱，脑海中纷繁杂乱的声音随之沉寂，“唯一能听见的就是自己的灵魂或神的声音”。 - **最后一夜的蜕变仪式**：按原住民传统，最后一天日落时用石头围成一个石圈，人坐在圈中通宵守夜仰望星座运转，竭尽全力熬到黎明红日升起，象征“以此人进入，化作彼人走出”。 --- ### [01:47:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6441s) 现代机器的异化与远古石刻的精准天象两人感叹现代人的专注与灵性已被手机、电视屏幕和无休止的 TikTok 算法刷屏严重钝化，丧失了在纯粹寂静中独处的能力。虽然工业与现代社会运转确实需要有人在企业中日复一日地制造 iPhone 和笔记本电脑，但远古文明在时间分配与世界理解上却走了一条截然不同的道路。古代文明将难以想象的时间与精力投入到宏大的仪式与宇宙连接中——无论是阿兹特克金字塔还是古埃及神庙，它们的建筑布局都严丝合缝地呼应着天上的星座。古代建造者对宇宙与天体运行有着极高精度的规划能力。他们设计神庙让夏至的阳光正巧穿过柱廊中央、照亮幽深的走廊，连半英尺或六英寸的偏差都没有。在狩猎采集向定居过渡的早期，古人竟能做到“分毫不差”。Cassie 特别提到，每逢春分时节，清晨的第一缕朝阳便会分毫不差地从柬埔寨吴哥窟（Angkor Wat）的正中央主塔上方冉冉升起。这种神乎其技的工程不仅让人惊叹“他们究竟是如何做到的”，更让人忍不住追问深层的动机：“他们为何要这样造？为何要选在这里？” - **天象对齐与神圣规划**：古建筑精准锚定了冬夏二至与春秋二分，证明古人不仅深知太阳在一年中最长的一天会出现在天空的哪个坐标，还能将其恒久编码于坚硬的花岗岩石之中。 - **与自然的深度连接**：在没有现代铺天盖地的政治宣传、心理操纵（gaslighting）、物质消费与名利追逐的远古时代，人类生活在与土地、同胞以及神明高度相连的状态中，而这正是现代人四处旅行朝圣时依然渴望找回的心灵敬畏感（awe and wonder）。 --- ### [01:51:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6660s) 玛雅文明与神明造访：那些并非由后人建造的神庙话题进一步转向中美洲与南美洲的古文明谜团。Joe Rogan 回忆起自己在 2000 年代初期到访墨西哥奇琴伊察（Chichen Itza）玛雅金字塔的震撼经历。当时游客还可以亲自攀登金字塔，置身于那片古老神秘的建筑群中，让人由衷感叹当地独特的能量场以及奥尔梅克（Olmec）与玛雅文化残留的不可思议之处。更为惊人的是关于建造者的传说。许多我们如今习惯性归于特定文明的巨石建筑，其真正的使用者却在历史上坚决予以否认： | 古代遗址/文明地区 | 主流历史归属 | 当地土著文明的实际自述 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **墨西哥特奥蒂瓦坎** | 阿兹特克文明（Aztecs） | 阿兹特克人明确表示：“这不是我们建的，这是**诸神诞生之所**，我们到达前它就已矗立于此。” | | **秘鲁巨石遗迹** | 印加帝国（Inca） | 印加人直截了当地告诉殖民者与后人：“这些巨石工程不是我们造的，它们早就在这里了。” | | **柬埔寨吴哥窟遗址** | 高棉帝国（Khmer） | 同样伴随着先祖由神明协助或承袭前人浩大工程的古老传说。 | 面对原住民如此直白的记载，现代主流学界却往往傲慢地置若罔闻，轻描淡写地斥之为“无知古代人编写的荒诞神话”。Joe Rogan 随即提到在世界多个独立文明中普遍存在的一个诡异现象——苏美尔王表等古代王权世系记录：大洪水之前，每一位远古君王的统治纪元都长达数千年甚至数万年；而一旦经历大洪水浩劫，随后君王的寿元与在位时间便断崖式暴跌，迅速恢复到与现代人类完全一致的自然寿命。现代历史学者对这类文献采取极其自相矛盾的双标态度：同一篇古老文本，只要记载的在位时间超自然就一概被贴上“荒诞神话”的标签，而一旦纪元数字跌至正常区间，后半段便立刻被奉为严肃的正史。 ### [01:53:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6780s) 全球神话中的长寿与巨人：耆那教、苏美尔与《以诺书》关于远古历史与神话的界限，主流学界往往存在一种双重标准：对于距今四五千年前、拥有常规寿命的古代君王，考古学家毫不犹豫地承认其真实存在；然而，对于统治长达数千年的统治者，则一概被斥为虚构神话。Cassie 提到了耆那教（Jainism）的例子：教义中记载了24位“福度尔”（Tirthankaras），信徒坚信他们全部真实存在，但现代考古学仅承认最后两位，纯粹是因为只有这两位的年代和寿命才符合现代科学认知。至于更古老的福度尔，神话描述其统治横跨数百万年，第一任甚至身高达一英里以上。令人深思的是，这种记载在全球古代文明中惊人地一致。无论是耆那教、印度教、古埃及、苏美尔文明，还是《圣经》，都普遍记录了极其漫长的寿命与巨人的存在。Joe 谈及众议员 Anna Paulina Luna 曾向他推荐《以诺书》（Book of Enoch），他读完两次后感慨这是“人类故事中最离奇的描绘”——守望者（The Watchers）从天而降，与人类女子交配生下拿非利人（Nephilim），这些巨人贪得无厌地吞噬世间万物，最终在史前大洪水中被毁灭。《圣经》正典对这些情节语焉不详，而拉比之所以将《以诺书》等文献从正典中剔除，正是因为其内容与妥拉（Torah）格格不入。讽刺的是，在昆兰洞穴（Qumran Caves）出土的死海古卷中，《以诺书》正是与《以赛亚书》一同被存放在同一个洞穴的卷轴里。 - 主流考古学仅承认耆那教24位福度尔中的最后两位，前22位因时间跨度和夸张体格被归为神话。 - 耆那教、印度神话、苏美尔王表以及《圣经》文本在长寿与巨人特征上表现出惊人的跨文化一致性。 - 《以诺书》详细描述了守望者堕落、诞下拿非利人并最终导致大洪水的传说，该书在昆兰洞穴中与正统希伯来卷轴一同被发现。 --- ### [01:55:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6919s) 大卫与歌利亚的真实身高辨析两人将话题转向家喻户晓的《大卫与歌利亚》（David and Goliath）故事。在希伯来圣经的叙述中，以色列人看见巨人时自比为“蚱蜢”，突显出其体型之庞大。关于歌利亚究竟有多高，古文献之间存在明显矛盾：古希伯来文马索拉文本记录其身高为“六肘零一拃”（six cubits and a span），换算后大约在9到10英尺（约2.7至3米）之间；而希腊文七十士译本与死海古卷却记载为“四肘零一拃”（four cubits and a span），即大约6.5到7.5英尺（约1.98至2.28米）。 Joe 调侃道，如果死海古卷的记载属实，歌利亚在现代不过就是一个普通篮球运动员的身材，甚至都不算顶尖巨人，完全可能是现实中类似《权力的游戏》中“魔山”那样的强壮常人。在流传过程中，古人为了戏剧效果往往将“遇到一个极度魁梧的战士”夸大为十英尺高的怪物。他们还提到了现实中极具反差的例子：现代有一位年仅20岁但身高已达7英尺9英寸（约2.36米）的篮球新星，若放在古代战场上，其体格足以远超歌利亚的原始记录。 | 文本来源 | 记载尺寸 | 换算现代身高 | 历史与现实参照 | |:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **古代希伯来文本（马索拉）** | 六肘零一拃 (6 cubits + 1 span) | 约 9 ~ 10 英尺 (2.7 ~ 3.0 米) | 传说中的超自然巨人形象 | | **死海古卷 / 希腊文七十士译本** | 四肘零一拃 (4 cubits + 1 span) | 约 6.5 ~ 7.5 英尺 (1.98 ~ 2.28 米) | 现代NBA前锋/中锋身材，《权力的游戏》魔山类型 | | **现代极端人类身高案例** | 现役年轻篮球球员 | 约 7 英尺 9 英寸 (2.36 米) | 实际体型已显著超越死海古卷中的歌利亚记录 | --- ### [01:57:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7041s) 生物延寿技术与古代长寿王表的科幻设想谈及古代帝王长寿的谜题，Joe 提出了一种基于未来科技的激进假设。目前人类已经在细胞重编程和逆转皮肤细胞年龄领域取得突破，科学界正迈向停止甚至逆转人体衰老的道路。随着寿命延长技术的逐步成熟，人类突破现有的寿命极限、活到数千岁并非绝对不可能。在等级森严的远古文明中，如果掌握了某种生命延长技术，最先享受并垄断这项特权的必然是统治者，再加上严密的王权守卫，他们完全可以摆脱寻常死亡的威胁。由此回看苏美尔王表（Sumerian King List）以及古埃及的“祖庇神灵年代记”（Zep Tepi），那些记载中统治数千年乃至数万年的君主，或许并非单纯的夸张修辞。一旦掌握了生物衰老控制技术，“统治一个国家三万年”便从不可思议的荒诞故事，变成了一个在科技逻辑上说得通的假说。虽然追求彻底的永生难以企及，但大幅度延长健康寿命的突破很可能就在当代发生。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 寿命延长技术与古代长寿王表假说 accDescr: 展示生物延寿技术如何由现代科学发展推演至远古极长统治年表的逻辑联系。 subgraph TechDev ["现代延寿科技突破"] A["细胞重编程 / 皮肤细胞年龄逆转"] B["终结生物自然衰老机制"] A --> B end subgraph SocialSpec ["垄断与统治假设"] C["统治阶层垄断长寿技术"] D["严密王权保护避免外力死亡"] B --> C C --> D end subgraph AncientRecords ["远古神话与文献映射"] E["苏美尔王表 （统治长达数千年甚至数万年）"] F["古埃及 Zep Tepi （远古黄金时代长寿神王）"] D --> E D --> F end ``` --- ### [01:59:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7140s) 寿命扩张的人生哲思：智慧累积、工作意义与退休综合征如果人类的生理寿命真的延长到两百岁甚至更久，这将彻底重构人类的心智与社会形态。Joe 感慨道，普通人的悲哀在于生命过于短暂，在年轻时深陷婚姻、家庭、房贷等责任之中，根本没有足够的时间看透生活中大量的愚蠢与虚妄；直到人逐渐衰老，才慢慢磨炼出清醒的智慧。如果一个80岁的老人能维持30岁时的体魄，那将是无与伦比的智慧体。生命的成倍延长也带来了新的社会学难题：人类是否需要工作到160岁？对此，Joe 认为这取决于工作的性质。如果是繁重的体力劳动，活到数百岁继续干屋顶修理工无疑是折磨；但若从事的是自己热爱的事业，退休这个概念本身就会失去意义。现实中许多人之所以盼望退休，是因为打心底厌恶自己的工作；甚至有无数人兢兢业业干了一辈子，退休后不到半年就突发心脏病离世。这种“退休猝死”现象往往是因为突然失去了生活的目标与支撑，对终点的隐秘恐惧和存在主义焦虑加速了身心的衰竭。就像很多相濡以沫的老夫老妻，一方离世后另一方往往在短时间内相继辞世，这种精神寄托的崩塌是加速衰老的重要心理推手。 ### [02:01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7290s) 伴侣离世对寿命的影响与老夫老妻的相处模式讨论始于一个沉重的家庭现象：当妻子先离世后，丈夫往往在短短一年内相继离去。这反映出男性在失去伴侣后极难独自生活。相反，现实中很多长寿的寡妇（例如祖父十五年前去世，而祖母如今已 93 岁高龄且依旧健康）展现出了完全不同的生存能力，因为她们懂得照顾自己、做饭、打扫家务；若是换作祖父独活，恐怕难以支撑那么久。这种差异很大程度上取决于婚姻关系中的分工模式。在许多老年夫妻关系中，妻子逐渐转变成全方位的照顾者角色。随着年龄增长，男性似乎在思维退化上表现得更早、更容易感到精疲力竭，到了八十岁左右，往往凡事都顺着妻子说“对，你是对的”，甘愿让妻子掌管家中一切。统计数据也印证了这一点：已婚男性的预期寿命显著长于未婚男性。当生活中失去女性的照料与约束，单身生活可能迅速被可卡因、应召女郎、汉堡与啤酒填满，再无人督促他们吃沙拉，生命年限也随之被无情剥夺。 --- ### [02:02:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7376s) 孤独的致命毒性与现代部落社群的瓦解科学研究表明，孤独对健康的危害甚至超过吸烟，是人类能遭遇的最糟糕体验之一。尽管现代社会里“灵性”（spirituality）这个词因部分装神弄鬼者的滥用而带有些许污名，但人与人之间那种深刻、深层的连接对生存而言是绝对必不可少的——这也是为何监狱中最严厉的惩罚莫过于“单独监禁”（solitary confinement）。人类本质上是群居动物（pack animals），追求独处绝非一种值得炫耀的坚强。那些自诩“我是独行侠”、故作神秘声称不需要任何人的人，若非自欺欺人，便是言不由衷。现代人陷入了一种生存困境：我们不再生活在父辈、祖辈曾经繁衍生息的故土，背井离乡独自打拼；每天沉溺于手机数小时，误以为网络上的虚构社群是真正的依靠，实际上早已失去了真实的“部落”（tribe）。为了填补这种归属感的真空，人们往往会转向意识形态、政治阵营或宗教团体以求合群。当成百上千的信徒穿着相同的服饰、在同一瞬间下跪并念诵相同的经文时，那种强烈的集体归属感极为震撼。这种力量若是被恶意引导，会带来毁天灭地的破坏；但如果导向真正的仪式、真正的敬畏，向宇宙、神明与深层灵性敞开胸怀，它将带来超越现代生活方式的精神治愈。 --- ### [02:05:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7514s) 迷幻体验与厄琉息斯秘仪的震撼迷幻药（psychedelics）在当代的强势复兴，正是因为现代人渴望唤醒内心深处被压抑了一生的灵性连接。这种体验在古代文明中极可能非常普遍，正如作家布莱恩·穆拉雷斯库（Brian Muraresku）在其著作《永生之钥》（*The Immortality Key*）中所探讨的那样。谈及此处，现场分享了一段亲身经历：在希腊期间，有幸由布莱恩·穆拉雷斯库亲自陪同，参观了古代举行厄琉息斯秘仪（Eleusinian Mysteries）的圣地厄琉息斯（Eleusis）。置身于数千年前古人举行神秘仪式的遗址，那种感觉奇异而深刻，令人忍不住用手抚摸古老的石墙久久沉浸其中，甚至让一旁的家人和年幼的孩子感到不解——在十二三岁的孩子眼中，那里不过是一堆无聊的破石头，心中只想着下一餐吃什么。而在雅典的博物馆面对两千年前人类留下的精致器物时，那种强烈的敬畏感同样扑面而来：古人究竟是如何做到的？那时的社会到底是怎样的形态？ ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代人寻找灵性连接的路径 accDescr: 描绘现代人因失去部落而走向意识形态或迷幻药与古老仪式的心理演变图 subgraph modernIsolation["现代孤立困境"] A["失去传统部落与血缘社群"] --> B["沉迷网络与虚假虚拟连接"] B --> C["孤独感剧增 （危害甚于吸烟）"] end subgraph searchBelonging["寻求归属与意义"] C --> D["倒向政治/意识形态阵营"] C --> E["宗教仪式与集体崇拜"] C --> F["迷幻体验复兴 （唤醒深层灵性感知）"] end subgraph ancientEcho["重回古老智慧"] F --> G["古希腊厄琉息斯秘仪等遗迹"] G --> H["体会大地能量与宇宙深层连接"] end style modernIsolation fill:#ffebee,stroke:#c62828,stroke-width:1px style searchBelonging fill:#e3f2fd,stroke:#1565c0,stroke-width:1px style ancientEcho fill:#e8f5e9,stroke:#2e7d32,stroke-width:1px ``` --- ### [02:07:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7657s) 大地能量与古老巨石建筑的真正意图走访复活节岛（Easter Island）和秘鲁库斯科（Cusco）的经历揭示了一个神秘的共性：两地在古老起源神话中都被视作“世界的肚脐”（the navels of the world）。置身于这些区域，人的身心状态会发生不可思议的转变——睡眠格外深沉，梦境变得奇特，整个人仿佛被注射了多肽（peptides）一般迅速修复与愈合。古人在复活节岛雕刻巨大的摩艾石像（Moai），在库斯科筑起精巧绝伦的巨石墙，绝非历史的偶然，而是因为那片土地本身就蕴藏着超乎寻常的能量场。这种古老奇迹引发了根本性的追问：高级文明究竟起源于何时？建造这些超越时空的巨石建筑，其根本目的或许正在于此——在漫长的岁月之后，启发后人提出深刻的疑问，震撼人类的心智，促使我们反思意识的本质和物种的过去。反观当代社会，繁华表象下尽显肤浅与脆弱。现代都市如曼哈顿的高楼大厦固然在工业设计上有些酷炫，但绝无吴哥窟（Angkor Wat）那般永恒的神韵。现代建筑本质上都是临时性的，若人类突然离去，只需数千年时间，所有现代钢筋混凝土都将被大自然彻底吞噬分解、夷为平地；而唯有大洪水之前（如一万一千至一万二千年前）乃至更早的远古巨石，依然在寂静中诉说着被遗忘的高度文明。 ### [02:10:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7802s) 人类起源时间线与巨灾幸存的遗迹对解剖学意义上的现代人类（anatomically modern humans）的起源推断，如今已被部分研究向前推到了100万年前。面对这一惊人的时间跨度，一个显而易见的逻辑漏洞浮现出来：既然与现代人类毫无二致的祖先在几十万乃至上百万年前就已经存在，为什么直到一万年前左右才突然“开窍”发明农业、建立城市和复杂文明？在漫长的数十万年里，人类究竟在做什么？ ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 远古时间线与文明遗存假说 accDescr: 展示人类起源时间推前、巨灾毁灭以及最终遗存的三阶段关系。 subgraph 人类时间尺度 A["解剖学现代人类 (推测达百万年)"] --> B["是否存在早期复杂文明？"] end subgraph 巨灾与人口瓶颈 B --> C["超级巨灾爆发 (如7万年前多巴火山)"] C --> D["全球人口锐减 (幸存不足10万人)"] end subgraph 遗存与线索 D --> E["易损造物彻底抹除"] D --> F["巨石建筑与深度侵蚀痕迹"] D --> G["口述神话与精神传统"] end ``` 这种断层更可能源于年代过于久远导致痕迹被彻底磨灭。正如独立研究员 Ben van Kerkwyk 指出的那样，埃及古老巨石上呈现出极度严重的侵蚀痕迹，且后人明显是在原有侵蚀结构之外重新建造。如果这种侵蚀代表了数万年甚至十万年、二十万年的岁月冲刷，那么文明中脆弱的部分根本不可能留存下来。历经终极灾难之后，真正能跨越时间长河幸存的，往往只有坚硬的巨石结构、口口相传的古老故事以及精神传统；而面对摧毁文明的灭顶之灾，能够活下来的学者和掌握完整文明记忆的人几乎屈指可数。 - 约7万年前印尼多巴超级火山（Toba volcano）喷发，曾导致严重的种群遗传瓶颈，全球幸存人类甚至可能不足10万人。 - 10万人仅相当于一场爆满的美国费城老鹰队（Eagles）橄榄球赛或德克萨斯大学（UT）主场比赛的观众总数；全人类当时站在灭绝边缘，展现出脆弱与顽强并存的生命力。 --- ### [02:12:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=7951s) 主流考古框架的局限与新兴探测技术当前的主流学术体系在面对越来越多新发现时显得固步自封。尽管早期学者基于当时的技术条件做出了卓越贡献，但在诸如吉萨大金字塔下方探出1.2公里地下结构等颠覆性证据涌现的当下，仍死守旧有时间表不仅显得荒谬，也会逐渐失去公众的信任。科学研究本应是一个持续更新的探索过程，承认存在未知绝不等于否定过去的成果。随着 LiDAR（激光雷达）、无线电断层扫描（radio tomography）等地下探测技术的飞跃，考古学正在迎来革命。以撒哈拉以南非洲为例，由于历史上探险与科考极度匮乏，其广阔的土地下方究竟埋藏着什么依然是未解之谜。 - 近年在亚马逊雨林以及柬埔寨茂密丛林中，LiDAR 扫描揭示了庞大的远古城市网络，证明当地曾有数以百万计的人口生活并改造生态，而非过去认为的原始狩猎部落。 - 如此重大的考古发现往往只在新闻中一闪而过，大众关注度低，使得播客与独立研究成为传播这些前沿发现的重要渠道。 - 网络上充斥着AI生成的虚假博眼球内容（如夸张字体的YouTube标题），给公众分辨真伪带来了干扰；北美蒙大拿州的“鼠尾草之墙”（Sage Wall）等争议构造，在外观上看似堆砌巨石，但也很可能是罕见的自然地质形态。 - 新仙女木事件（Younger Dryas）若伴随冰盖消融与滔天洪水，曾被巨型冰川覆盖的北美大陆很多早期人造结构极可能已被彻底夷为平地。 --- ### [02:16:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8165s) 沙漠深处的未知要塞与“鲸鱼谷”化石群一段航拍卫星影像展示了在茫茫沙海中央赫然伫立的巨大古老遗迹： ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 沙漠地貌与远古演变过程 accDescr: 展示地表环境从海洋到丛林再到沙漠的极端变迁，以及沙漠深处要塞与化石的存留状态。 A["远古古海洋 (史前鲸鱼繁衍)"] --> B["史前热带雨林"] B --> C["极端荒漠化 (沙丘吞噬掩埋)"] C --> D["地表露出奇观"] D --> D1["泥沙要塞遗存"] D --> D2["沙漠鲸鱼骨骼 (宛如巨龙化石)"] ``` 在荒无人烟的沙漠腹地，一座完全由沙土、稻草和黏土（sand, straw, and clay）构筑的远古要塞凸显于连绵沙丘之中。尽管有人推测这可能是历史上犹太人遭遇迫害流亡时的避难所，但学术界至今没有确切定论。这种脆弱的土坯结构不仅显示出相对较近的建造年代，更让人难以想象一旦遭遇极端沙尘暴便会被迅速深埋的严酷环境。更不可思议的是沙漠本身的地质沧桑——在变成沙漠之前，这里曾是繁茂的丛林，而更早之前则是一片汪洋。造访埃及“鲸鱼谷”（Wadi Al-Hitan）是一次极具超现实感的体验：在荒漠中驱车一整天、甚至需要安保车辆前后护送才能抵达，而在干涸的沙漠地表上，巨大的史前鲸鱼骨骼仅用一圈碎石简单围护，游人可直接走到跟前观察。 - 沙漠中蜿蜒散落的巨大鲸类脊椎骨化石，在视觉上极度酷似神话中的巨龙骨架。 - 鉴于世界各地许多古文明几乎无一例外都流传着古老巨蛇或恶龙的传说，巨型化石的出土很可能正是远古神话叙事的灵感来源之一。 - 古人对真实生物的艺术还原往往非常拙劣，例如意大利古老教堂的马赛克壁画在描绘圣经中“约拿与大鱼”（Jonah and the whale）时，画面中的水生巨兽与真实鲸鱼形态相去甚远。 ### [02:18:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8339s) 传闻中的海怪与各文明的“龙”之谜乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）回忆起自己大约十年前在 Instagram 上发过的一张古老插画。那幅画原本打算描绘一头鲸鱼，但画出来的形象却无比怪异，长得毫无现代所知鲸鱼的影子，反而像一只张牙舞爪的狮鹫或深海怪兽。罗根指出，古代创作者之所以画成这样，完全是因为他们从未亲眼目睹过活鲸鱼，只能凭借水手口口相传的故事在脑海中拼凑形象。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 从口述传闻到神话生物的演化链条 accDescr: 展示古代人类如何将未见生物或灭绝巨兽通过口述逐步附会为神话中的龙或怪兽。 subgraph S1["真实目击与古生物遗存"] A["罕见海洋巨兽 / 鳄鱼 / 冰期残存巨兽"] B["未知的庞大化石遗骸"] end subgraph S2["口头传播与信息失真"] C["水手与猎人口耳相传的故事"] D["缺乏直观图像记录的文化记忆"] end subgraph S3["神话原型诞生"] E["怪异的海兽插画（如似狮鹫的鲸）"] F["跨文化普及的“龙”与“巨蛇”传说"] end A --> C B --> C C --> D D --> E D --> F ``` 由这种“道听途说导致的艺术变形”，两人顺理成章地探讨起全球神话中无处不在的“龙”与“巨蛇”。罗根发出疑问：古代人在描绘龙的时候，到底是在记录某种能够飞行的生物、某种体型夸张的鳄鱼，还是在新仙女木期事件后残存了数千年才彻底消失的史前爬行动物？科学界已知新仙女木撞击事件导致北美约 65% 的巨型动物群（Megafauna）灭绝，但人类历史上是否曾与某些尚未记录的生物短暂共存？无论是在中国、日本、东欧还是美洲，甚至在圣经中提及多达 34 次的记载里，巨龙与海兽的身影从未缺席。 - **形象畸变**：古代由于目击者匮乏，口述转绘往往将普通大型生物（如鲸鱼）渲染为拥有兽爪、利齿与怪异背鳍的魔兽。 - **灭绝生物线索**：北美包括地懒等在内的大量巨型陆生动物在距今万余年前消失，古人类目睹残存个体的记忆极可能演变为神话原型。 - **跨文化共鸣**：龙与蛇的意象几乎跨越了所有孤立发展的古文明，成为全人类神话中共有的核心图腾。 --- ### [02:20:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8435s) 蛇与龙的象征演变：从神圣守护者到圣经中的诱惑者卡西·科普史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）指出，横向对比世界各地的古文明会发现一个极为耐人寻味的现象：在绝大多数传统中，龙与巨蛇都被奉为正面的守护力量，而非邪恶的怪物。以柬埔寨的高棉神庙为例，几乎所有寺庙门前都会矗立着巨大的多头那伽（Naga，拥有七个或九个头部的神蛇雕像），它们镇守在凡俗世界与神圣殿堂之间的阈限空间（Liminal Space），宣告来访者正迈入神明统治的圣域。反观古基督教传统，《圣经》中的蛇却成为了诱惑夏娃、破坏伊甸园的欺诈者（Trickster），是罕见明确将蛇定性为纯粹邪恶的古代文本。罗根随后探讨了语言翻译的问题，提到英王詹姆士钦定本（King James Version）之所以频繁出现“龙”（Dragon）的字眼，很大程度上源于古希伯来语单词“Tanin”的多义翻译。在现代圣经译本中，这个词有时被译为豺狼、海怪、大鱼或爬行动物，但在旧译本里统统被简单粗暴地翻译成了喷火飞龙。 | 文明 / 文本体系 | 蛇与龙的核心代表 | 象征属性 | 空间与社会功能 | |:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **高棉 / 东南亚文明** | 那伽（Naga，七头/九头蛇） | 神圣、守护、崇高 | 伫立于寺庙入口，把守凡界与神界的边界 | | **东亚传统文明** | 东方神龙 / 灵蛇 | 祥瑞、降雨、皇权象征 | 执掌自然秩序，庇护邦国与风调雨顺 | | **希伯来语原典文本** | *Tanin* 等海兽描述 | 深渊、混沌或神秘水生巨怪 | 彰显上帝创世造物的威能与深海的不可测 | | **古基督教传统 / KJV 译本** | 诱惑夏娃之蛇 / 恶龙 | 欺诈者（Trickster）、罪恶与堕落根源 | 道德诫命对立面，将古老图腾重构为邪恶反派 | --- ### [02:22:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8533s) 恐龙化石的还原假设与天价拍卖热潮随着化石记录的讨论深入，罗根笑谈现代许多阴谋论者甚至认为“恐龙根本是伪造的”。虽然这种论调极其荒谬，但他承认博物馆中绝大多数展出的恐龙骨架确实并非原始骨骼，而是出于保存目的制作的树脂复刻品；更重要的是，由于完整的骨骼化石凤毛麟角，古生物学家必须在零散碎骨的基础上结合大量假设来拼凑全貌。科普史密斯提到，蒙大拿州博兹曼（Bozeman）的落基山博物馆曾展出一具独特的迅猛龙复原模型：它的一半被做成《侏罗纪公园》式布满鳞片的冷酷蜥蜴形象，另一半却长满了如现代鸟类般色彩斑斓的羽毛，以此向公众展示科学假说的演化与未知。随后两人在屏幕上查看了一具正在拍卖、名为“格斯”（Gus）的霸王龙骨架。这具化石的完整度达到了惊人的 61%，预计拍卖价高达 6500 万至 8000 万美元，而其肋骨处甚至还带有清晰的史前咬痕化石，引发了究竟是捕食伤痕还是死后被食腐动物啃食的猜测。罗根分享了一桩趣事：他曾在马里布看中过一栋待售豪宅，屋主在室内布置了一具迅猛龙骨架，并声称只要多付 100 万美元就可以将恐龙留在屋里。科普史密斯还感叹，如果在史前荒原上被空中的翼龙俯击该是何等恐惧——就如同在沙漠徒步时被头顶盘旋的猎鹰阴影笼罩一样，面对巨型空中掠食者，人类根本无能为力。 - **拍卖骨架“格斯”**：完整度约 61%，官方初始估价在 2000 万至 3000 万美元之间，但实际竞拍预期被推高至 6500 万到 8000 万美元区间。 - **肋骨咬痕之谜**：骨架化石上保留的古老压痕证明该个体在生前或死后曾遭遇其他巨型食肉动物的撕咬。 - **马里布豪宅轶事**：豪宅卖家开出额外 100 万美元的附加包，让买家直接打包带走屋内的真实迅猛龙骨架。 --- ### [02:25:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8714s) 掌心中的上万年历史：北美古印第安石矛头实物展示科普史密斯为罗根带来了一份珍贵的“实物展示”（Show and Tell）。她幼时成长于内布拉斯加州西部的一个巨型玉米农场，她的祖父曾从普拉特河（Platte River）疏浚运来整车的河卵石铺设庭院，竟然在石堆中意外挑拣出了一枚保存极度完好的远古石质矛头。科普史密斯将它递给罗根，揭晓这是一枚距今 8,500 至 9,500 年历史的“詹姆斯·艾伦石镞”（James Allen point）。罗根手握这枚冰凉的石器赞叹不已，并指出它制作的年代恰好与远在中东的格贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）兴盛施工期重合。罗根随后拿出一枚本地发现的石箭头对比，指出科普史密斯的藏品制作工艺远为精湛，年代也更为古老。接着，科普史密斯又展示了一块带有精美凹槽的“福尔瑟姆石镞”（Folsom point）残件，其年代更是可以追溯到 12,700 年前的新仙女木期。那道贯穿器身中轴的典型凹槽（Flute）展现了令人叹为观止的敲砸修整工艺，是古印第安人专门为了猎杀现已灭绝的更新世大型野兽而制造的致命武器。 - **詹姆斯·艾伦石镞**：距今约 8,500 至 9,500 年，出土自内布拉斯加州普拉特河底的鹅卵石沉积层，工艺精湛且对称。 - **福尔瑟姆石镞残件**：距今约 12,700 年，属于北美晚更新世至早全新世的古印第安技术文化，标志性特征为中轴开槽，用于安装木柄以猎杀古代野牛等冰期物种。 - **文明的反差**：当旧大陆的欧亚与中国逐步迈向成熟的农业定居、金属机械与复杂城邦体系时，北美的古人类仍长期维持着精炼纯熟的石器时代游猎采集传统。 ### [02:27:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8874s) 北美古遗址、史前足迹与两英里厚的冰盖覆盖对话从北美古老的人造土堆遗迹切入。卡西·考珀史密斯（Cassie Coppersmith）提到，除了极少数例外，路易斯安那州的一些土丘遗址测年大约已有 9,000 年的历史，这些规模庞大的土方平台在当时建造的动机至今仍令人难以索解。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）询问这些建筑是否与大洪水有关，卡西指出目前这些土丘并没有被测定为“大洪水前（pre-flood）”的遗迹，它们更可能是大洪水之后的幸存者所建。而在新墨西哥州白沙国家公园（White Sands）发现的古人类足迹则可以明确追溯到 23,000 年前的大洪水之前。耐人寻味的是，留下这些足迹的人类全部是赤足行走的，这让两人不禁思考当时的北美大陆究竟存在着何种水准的文明。北美大陆在远古时期的地理环境极为严酷。直到大约 11,000 年前，大半个北美洲都深埋在厚达一至两英里的巨大冰盖之下。罗根感叹现代人很难真正想象出那种压迫感：芝加哥、蒙大拿、科罗拉多，所有如今繁华的城市与广袤的土地当年彻底被抹去，全部封冻在千米冰层之下。屏幕上随后展示了一幅两英里厚冰盖矗立在现代城市天际线旁的对比模拟图，令卡西惊呼不已。当人们如今驱车穿过堪萨斯、内布拉斯加和爱荷华州的平原时，很难想象眼前的这一切在万年前曾被深压在浩瀚的冰川之下。 - **路易斯安那土丘群（Louisiana Mounds）**：部分土方结构距今约 9,000 年，属于后洪水时代的庞大工程。 - **白沙足迹（White Sands Footprints）**：测定年代约 23,000 年前，证实早在末次盛冰期前北美就有人类活动，且留存者为赤足。 - **北美冰盖厚度**：厚度达 1 至 2 英里（约 1.6 至 3.2 公里），覆灭了如今美国中北部的所有地貌。 --- ### [02:29:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=8946s) 新仙女木撞击假说与兰德尔·卡尔森的浩劫洪流论卡西提到自己的丈夫来自北爱达荷州，在那里的地貌上至今仍能清晰看到远古冰坝决堤后留下的痕迹。她盛赞地质学者兰德尔·卡尔森（Randall Carlson）在描绘这些史前灾难性事件方面的非凡才华，认为他让那些抽象的地质剧变变得极其真实可感。罗根随即回忆起自己大约在 2005 年去亚特兰大做脱口秀演出时初次结识卡尔森的情景。当时卡尔森向他详细阐述了新仙女木撞击假说（Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis），罗根听后惊呼“什么？！”，那次交谈彻底颠覆了他的认知，并成为他将远古文明覆灭之谜拼凑完整的起点。现代地质学与冰芯样本研究如今已经证实了这场浩劫的真实性。科研人员在全球范围的地层中发现了富含外太空常见但地球极其稀缺的铱元素（Iridium）层，以及在超高温高压冲击下形成的微米级钻石（纳米金刚石），还有标志着大火与环境剧变的“黑垫层”（Black Mat Layer）。罗根指出，巨大的彗星或小行星可能在约 11,800 年前和 10,000 年前多次撞击冰盖，引发瞬时融化并释放出滔天洪流，这不仅造就了如今的北美五大湖区，也合理解释了人类文明为何在浩劫后经历了如此漫长的空白期才得以艰难重组。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 新仙女木期彗星撞击与文明重置机制 accDescr: 描述外天体撞击冰盖引发融水大洪水并导致文明技术倒退的过程 subgraph Cosmic_Impact["宇宙撞击事件"] A["彗星/小行星撞击事件 (~11,800 & 10,000年前)"] --> B["瞬时高温融化 数英里厚北美冰盖"] A --> C["地质印记 铱元素、纳米钻石与黑垫层"] end subgraph Cataclysm["地理灾变与洗礼"] B --> D["超级融水大洪流 冲刷大陆并形成五大湖区"] D --> E["史前海岸线与城市被抹去 生态环境剧烈恶化"] end subgraph Civilization_Reset["文明传承受阻"] E --> F["先进聚落与基础设施崩溃"] F --> G["文明陷入漫长休眠 数千年后方重新萌芽"] end ``` --- ### [02:31:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=9066s) 石头中编码的宇宙语言与全球巨石文明的统一图景面对这场突如其来的灭顶之灾，卡西提出了一个发人深省的问题：当时的史前文明是否提前预知了灾难的降临？他们如果预知了，又做出了怎样的准备？在席卷全球的狂澜之中，唯一能够跨越万年风雨留存下来的介质唯有巨石。这正是埃及大金字塔等古迹让人毛骨悚然的地方——金字塔的几何比例与地球的物理尺寸、月球的相对距离等宇宙常数存在着令人费解的精准呼应，这绝非随机构建的巧合。能够穿越文明断代保存至今的通用语言只有数学、几何、天文与神话，先民们正是将这些真理雕凿于巨石之中，留给后世去破译。卡西谈到自己对远古历史的彻底痴迷，甚至觉得“无法理解大家怎么还能有心思关注远古历史之外的事物”。她进一步指出，直到近代以前，人类学者受限于交通与语言隔阂，学术成果被禁锢在各自的大学象牙塔中，根本无法拼凑出全球维度的宏观图景。19 世纪在埃及考察的学者几乎不可能去过秘鲁，更无法将埃及数千吨的巨型雕像与印度同等规模的石雕并置审视，也无法对比各大陆之间近乎相同的高精度多边形巨石砌墙工艺。如今，人类正站在历史的关键转折点上，得益于全球互联，并在未来十年借助人工智能与卫星太空遥感测绘，人类对世界历史的认知必将被彻底重构。 - **石块中的编码**：巨石结构中融合了地球曲率、天体距离与高阶几何学，被视为文明在灾变前刻意留存的宇宙级档案。 - **全球跨区域一致性**：埃及、印度与秘鲁等地在超大吨位雕像建造与多边形接缝石墙技术上呈现出高度相似性。 - **科技赋能考古**：结合太空雷达扫描（如卫星 LiDAR）与 AI 跨区域大数据比对，未来十年全球考古学有望迎来颠覆性突破。 --- ### [02:33:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=9215s) 结语与致谢在对未来考古与技术融合的前瞻探讨中，对谈迎来了尾声。罗根衷心感谢卡西的到来，并赞扬了她的频道《Secrets in Stone》以及她对失落文明研究所展现出的热情。罗根坦言，如果没有像卡西这样执着的独立研究人员四处探寻并广泛传播，绝大多数大众将永远沉浸在对地球真实动荡历史一无所知的安逸之中。卡西对罗根的邀请表达了真挚的谢意，表示这次交流极其畅快有趣，双方约定未来再次聚首录制，随后在热烈轻松的告别声中结束了本期播客。 ## Notable quotes > [05:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=356s) 如果一个文明本身具备加工出如此完美几何体玉琮的顶级工法，绝无可能在雕刻表面象征王权的最高图腾时，只留下宛如刮擦一般的粗劣线痕。 — 乔·罗根 > [12:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=728s) 人类历史时间线被弄错了的可能性，远比主流历史学家完全正确、其他人全是阴谋论疯子高得多。 — 乔·罗根 > [17:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=1029s) 用‘相似’这个词可真巧妙。 — 乔·罗根 > [53:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=3191s) 如果将埃及文明的时间线推早到两万年前，这本该是让现代埃及人双倍自豪的辉煌历史。 — 乔·罗根 > [01:34:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5694s) 科学是伴随着一次又一次的葬礼向前推进的。 — 乔·罗根 > [01:43:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6230s) 唯一能听见的就是自己的灵魂或神的声音。 — 卡西·考珀史密斯 > [01:51:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6660s) 这不是我们建的，这是诸神诞生之所，我们到达前它就已矗立于此。 — 阿兹特克人 > [01:51:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=6660s) 这些巨石工程不是我们造的，它们早就在这里了。 — 印加人 > [01:25:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=5118s) 坐在这个造像面前，你会感到一种被治愈的力量。 — 卡西·考珀史密斯 > [01:16:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=4577s) 在我的认知里，这绝对是机械加工出来的。 — 卡西·考珀史密斯 > [02:31:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc&t=9066s) 无法理解大家怎么还能有心思关注远古历史之外的事物。 — 卡西·考珀史密斯 ## Mentioned Joe Rogan, Cassie Coppersmith, Secrets in Stone, Megalithic Marvels, Derek Olson, 大英博物馆, 良渚文化, 玉琮, 玉璧, 拉美西斯二世, Ben van Kerkwyk, UnchartedX, Brian Foerster, 凯拉萨神庙, 霍萨拉神庙群, 柯普什瓦尔神庙, 斯瓦尔加曼达帕, 亨比, 奥西里斯神庙, 吴哥窟, Graham Hancock, Jimmy Corsetti, Luke Caverns, Robert Schoch, 哥贝克力石阵, 萨克赛瓦曼, 狮身人面像, Maria Wheatley, Amanda Feilding, John Reeves, 白骨营地, Michael Button, 巴戎寺, 西池, 东池, 奥朗则布, 韩松洞, 荔枝山, 贡开, 塔普伦寺, 巴孔寺, 巴胡巴利巨像, 女王宫, 拉什莫尔山, 巴肯山, Filippo Biondi, Grok, Google Gemini, 梦之石碑, 维苏威挑战赛, 特奥蒂瓦坎, 奇琴伊察, 苏美尔王表, Anna Paulina Luna, 以诺书, 死海古卷, Brian Muraresku, 永生之钥, 厄琉息斯秘仪, 摩艾石像, 鲸鱼谷, 詹姆斯·艾伦石镞, 福尔瑟姆石镞, 白沙国家公园, Randall Carlson, Perplexity ## Video description Cassie Coppersmith is an independent researcher studying ancient civilizations and archaeological mysteries, and host of the “Secrets in Stone” podcast. https://www.youtube.com/@CassieCoppersmith Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get 30% off + 2 free gifts at https://ARMRA.com/rogan [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0o8pFz_gc)

Source quotes

[5:56] 乔·罗根: 如果一个文明本身具备加工出如此完美几何体玉琮的顶级工法，绝无可能在雕刻表面象征王权的最高图腾时，只留下宛如刮擦一般的粗劣线痕。 [12:08] 乔·罗根: 人类历史时间线被弄错了的可能性，远比主流历史学家完全正确、其他人全是阴谋论疯子高得多。 [17:09] 乔·罗根: 用‘相似’这个词可真巧妙。 [53:11] 乔·罗根: 如果将埃及文明的时间线推早到两万年前，这本该是让现代埃及人双倍自豪的辉煌历史。 [94:54] 乔·罗根: 科学是伴随着一次又一次的葬礼向前推进的。 [103:50] 卡西·考珀史密斯: 唯一能听见的就是自己的灵魂或神的声音。 [111:00] 阿兹特克人: 这不是我们建的，这是诸神诞生之所，我们到达前它就已矗立于此。 [111:00] 印加人: 这些巨石工程不是我们造的，它们早就在这里了。 [85:18] 卡西·考珀史密斯: 坐在这个造像面前，你会感到一种被治愈的力量。 [76:17] 卡西·考珀史密斯: 在我的认知里，这绝对是机械加工出来的。 [151:06] 卡西·考珀史密斯: 无法理解大家怎么还能有心思关注远古历史之外的事物。

Source quotes

[0:00] Cassie Coppersmith: The explanation doesn't make a lot of sense... If you look at the lines as it's drilling down, they're thick and they don't look the same. If you look at the ones in the actual artifact, they're extremely tight... that looks like a machine. [20:55] Cassie Coppersmith: When you read what the kings actually wrote, very seldom do they say, 'I, king so-and-so, built this.' What they say is, 'I installed a lingam... I brought a statue to this temple.' And so the archaeologists make a fairly big jump... [26:31] Joe Rogan: Imagine if you're a PhD student and you're like, 'I think you guys are wrong.' Well, you're fucked forever... Imagine the timeline of human history is so controversial that you're worried that it would ruin your career if you spoke accurately... [34:31] Joe Rogan: It's clearly human or some form of human, but it has more brain volume and it's built different than us. And everybody's like, 'I don't see anything.' [40:33] Joe Rogan: You're probably not going to get a doctor to sign up for that. Cassie Coppersmith: When you're in these places, you have different dreams, you sleep really well, you feel just good... you feel like you're on peptides, you know? You just feel, 'Oh my gosh, I feel so healthy, I feel healed.' [133:55] Joe Rogan: Take that crowd. That's the entire population of Earth now... One packed UT game. That's everybody on Earth. And now we have to branch out and go to China and go to Africa and go everywhere. That's all the people on Earth. [143:50] Joe Rogan: I think a lot of times about what it would feel like to be hunted from the sky... you'll be hiking in the desert and a hawk will fly over you and you'll get that shadow... imagine if it's just this massive hunter coming for you. [149:50] Joe Rogan: What is the one language that's going to survive? Geometry, math, right? Astrology... stones are the things that are going to survive. Myths... it's messages being passed down to us today.

Original transcript

[0:01] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. [0:04] >> The Joe Rogan Experience. [0:06] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY [0:08] NIGHT. All day. [0:12] >> How are you? [0:13] >> Great. How are you doing, John? [0:14] >> Very nice to meet you. [0:15] >> Nice to meet you. [0:15] >> I've enjoyed your content online. [0:17] >> Thank you. [0:18] >> I the first I got first introduced to [0:20] you by a video you did with uh his [0:24] channel's Megalithic Marvels. Yes. [0:26] >> Yeah. And it was about ancient Chinese [0:28] artifacts that don't make any sense. [0:31] >> Yes. [0:32] >> And uh it was so fascinating. The moment [0:34] I saw it, I reached out to my guy. I was [0:36] like, I got to talk to her because this [0:37] is crazy. [0:38] >> So, please explain to people what these [0:41] artifacts are and what's so bizarre [0:43] about them. [0:44] >> I I first saw these artifacts in uh the [0:48] British Museum. So, they have an entire [0:50] whole wall full of them, and they're [0:53] they're made of nefright jade, which is [0:55] an extremely hard stone. Um, and they [0:58] just look they look machined. They look [1:02] way too precise for the the tools that [1:05] they say built them. So, I started doing [1:07] some research. I haven't been to the [1:09] site in China. It's it was built by the [1:11] Langju culture, so archaeologists say. [1:14] Um, but it the it's a two different [1:18] kinds of artifacts that are really [1:20] famous. One is called a sung tube, which [1:23] is a tall tube that's circular in the [1:26] middle and square on the outside and [1:29] extremely precise geometry. The other [1:31] one are these big round B discs that [1:34] almost look like a giant flat doughut [1:36] that are perfectly flat on top. You [1:38] know, there's the precision versions of [1:40] these just like you see all over the [1:42] world and there are versions that are uh [1:45] much crudder. So, it almost seems like [1:47] the civilization had this my my theory [1:50] is that these were not unlike the [1:53] hardstone vases in Egypt. Um, so it was [1:57] something that this culture either was [2:00] gifted or found and it turned into a [2:04] very cherished object like a grave good [2:06] for them. So you find these tombs in [2:10] Langghu, China that have literally [2:12] thousands of these jade artifacts in [2:13] them. Um, and it's not unlike the hard [2:17] stone vases that you see in Egypt where [2:19] you find those in the grapes as well. [2:21] >> So what what's the timeline where these [2:24] pieces are attributed to? [2:25] >> So these are really old. I mean the the [2:28] earthworks and the um [2:32] the the community around the lean [2:35] culture is securely dated by [2:38] archaeologists to like 3,400 BC and then [2:41] you know just so it's about the same [2:43] actually as the graves that were in [2:46] Egypt um with the hardstone bases. So [2:49] it's very it's very very old. [2:51] >> And the the at the time of this culture, [2:55] what were their tools? Like do we know? [2:57] >> Well, the the archaeologists say that it [2:59] were that it was made with um strings. [3:03] So they would take strings with sand or [3:05] some sort of an abrasive and they would [3:07] cut the jade that way and then they [3:09] would uh they would use copper tools, [3:12] stone hammers, those kinds of things to [3:14] shape it. [3:16] So the the explanation with [3:17] >> a giant smile on your face. [3:18] >> The explanation doesn't make a lot of [3:20] sense. And even you know the hole down [3:21] the middle of the bisc is a perfect I [3:25] mean you can see the drill marks on the [3:27] inside of the bis. [3:28] >> Can we do we have some images of these [3:29] things? Let's take a look at them. [3:31] >> Jamie I have um a china [3:33] >> folder [3:34] >> cuz the images on uh and uh by the way [3:36] that channel megalithic marvels Derek's [3:38] channel. Excellent. Really fun. [3:40] >> So great. [3:40] >> Great stuff. [3:41] >> Yeah. Derek is the one that got me into [3:42] all this. [3:43] >> Shout out to Derek. Shout out to Derek. [3:45] >> So, this is How do you say it? How do [3:48] you pronounce that? B disc. B disc. B I [3:50] disc. [3:51] >> And um how big is this? [3:53] >> So, that thing's about 9 in across. [3:56] >> Perfectly perfectly circular, perfectly [3:59] flat surface on the top, [4:00] >> like measured to to what tolerance, [4:05] >> you know? I I don't know the answer to [4:06] that. And I don't know that there have [4:08] been a lot of deep scientific studies on [4:10] the precision of these. Right. Right. [4:12] The archaeologists assume that that this [4:14] culture made them with bamboo, you know, [4:16] bamboo and strings. [4:18] >> Okay. [4:19] >> So, yeah, there there that picture, [4:21] Jamie, you can see the inside of the [4:24] actual artifact in the bottom right. [4:26] That's drilled. [4:28] >> Yeah. [4:28] >> Right. And the one on the left is an [4:30] experiment these archaeologists ran with [4:33] a bamboo core down the middle of the [4:35] jade. And you can just you can see the [4:38] difference between the two. How far did [4:40] they get down with the bamboo [4:42] experiment? Oh, [4:43] >> all all the way through. [4:43] >> They got all the way through. How long [4:44] did that take? [4:46] >> I don't know the answer to that. There [4:47] was a an archaeologist that did an [4:50] experiment in the 1930s and they used [4:53] these strings with the abrasives to cut [4:55] off a piece of jade that was the size of [4:57] a basketball and it took them a week to [5:00] to cut the bamb or cut the string all [5:02] the way through that piece of jade. [5:04] >> So, it was a long time. [5:05] >> The difference in the people that are [5:06] listening. So, there's the bamboo [5:08] experiment where they drilled into [5:09] something with a bamboo and and cord and [5:13] some What else was did they use? They [5:15] like sand or something. [5:16] >> Yes. Abrasives of some sort. [5:18] >> Yeah. [5:18] >> And so, the difference is if you look at [5:20] the lines uh as it's drilling down, [5:23] they're thick and they don't look the [5:26] same. If you look at the ones in the [5:28] actual artifact, they're extremely [5:30] tight. They're they're way smaller and [5:33] they're they're tighter to each other [5:35] and it doesn't make sense. Like you look [5:37] at that, you're like that looks like a [5:39] machine. [5:40] >> It it does. And in this specific [5:42] instance, it looks to me like the drill [5:44] came from both directions. Like they [5:47] flipped it over and drilled from the top [5:49] and then flipped it over again and [5:50] drilled from the bottom and that's where [5:51] it met in the middle. [5:53] >> Wow. Um, [5:56] so when what is like what's out of all [6:00] these uh different artifacts, what's the [6:02] most puzzling one to you? [6:04] >> The sung tube, [6:05] >> which is the one on the left hand side [6:06] there. [6:07] >> Yep. So that you know that is a it's [6:10] larger on top, smaller on the bottom, [6:12] perfectly 90° corners. Um, it's got a [6:16] round tube in the middle, but the [6:18] artifact in general is square. So it's [6:20] just a very complex shape to create with [6:23] that level of precision. And Nefright [6:26] jade is a very a very hard stone. So it [6:28] would have taken you know this is a [6:30] people in my space talk about the mo [6:32] scale of hardness just as a way of [6:34] saying diamonds are a 10. You know [6:37] different different stone levels the the [6:39] um [6:41] the hard stone discs like diorite that [6:44] would be a six or seven. This is the [6:47] same. It's it's that hard. Wow. And [6:52] so [6:53] is the idea um well I'm just assuming [6:56] the idea is that there was a more [6:58] sophisticated culture that probably [7:00] existed predating that and these are [7:02] leftover artifacts. [7:04] >> It is only my opinion that that's the [7:07] case. I haven't seen a lot of people [7:09] talk about these artifacts at all. Um [7:12] Jamie, if you go back to the picture you [7:14] had just flashed on the screen, the [7:16] reason I've developed this theory, so [7:18] this is an image on the side of the [7:20] largest uh sung tube. It's called the [7:23] king of jade sung. It's a 15 uh pound [7:27] artifact that was found and you can see [7:30] the raised stone. So it's the high [7:33] relief carvings that were later etched [7:35] over. That etching is has become very [7:39] famous. If you look at photos of the [7:41] museum in Liangghu, this image is [7:44] everywhere. And I think that this was an [7:47] image that was used by uh the Leangju [7:50] tribe as like the the image of the king [7:52] basically. And so I but I do believe [7:55] that it was scratched over the top of an [7:59] original very uh interesting high relief [8:02] carving that you see in a lot of other [8:04] artifacts. Um so I think that he [8:07] basically found this. it looks um it's [8:11] something that they maybe could not [8:12] recreate and then they kind of stamped [8:14] their their kingly symbol over the top [8:18] of it. [8:18] >> So this is um it's common in Egypt as [8:21] well that and particularly this theory [8:23] among alternative historians because you [8:26] look at the complexity of some of the [8:28] sarcophaguses and some of the different [8:29] things that and then you see the writing [8:31] on the outside which looks like crudder. [8:34] The the the writing is not as precise. [8:36] The cutting is not as precise. There's a [8:38] lot of like chips to it. It doesn't look [8:40] >> like they use the same materials or the [8:42] same uh utensils you or tools. [8:46] >> Yeah. And you know the question is if [8:47] you had the ability there's the king of [8:50] jade sung. So if you had the ability to [8:53] make an artifact in that kind of a [8:55] shape, why would you not have also [8:58] created the scratching over the top in [9:00] that high that high quality version? So [9:03] why would you create the artifact like [9:05] that and then just scratch over the top [9:06] of it, right? It doesn't make sense. [9:08] >> It's there's always that's always been [9:10] the case that [9:12] history shows that people who are [9:14] controlling a region will take credit [9:16] for everything. They'll take credit for [9:17] all the ancient stuff, too. They'll put [9:19] their name on it. They own everything. [9:21] Yeah. [9:21] >> You know, and that's famous with [9:23] Pharaohs. They they did it with [9:25] everything. And this is documented. We [9:27] know that they wrote their name on [9:28] things that they didn't create. [9:29] >> Yeah. Ramsy's I was king Selfie. You [9:32] know, he he put his cart on everything. [9:35] >> Yeah. Which is I mean, it sounds like [9:38] what a dictator does. It sounds like [9:39] what a pharaoh would do. [9:40] >> Yeah. [9:41] >> You know, it doesn't mean that they made [9:42] it. And for us to just assume that they [9:44] did, knowing that people in great power [9:47] behave that way is kind of kind of [9:49] crazy. That's our map of history. So, [9:52] how did you get down this road where you [9:55] started looking at these objects and [9:57] looking at the the conventional [10:00] historical timeline and saying [10:01] something's wrong here [10:03] >> specific to the Chinese artifacts? [10:05] >> Yeah. Or or were you already on that [10:07] path when you found the Chinese [10:08] artifacts? [10:09] >> I've been on this path for a while and [10:11] you know my the name of my channel is [10:13] Secrets and Stone and the reason I named [10:16] it that is because I believe that the [10:18] stones speak to you. they will show you [10:20] exactly what the story is, right? Um, so [10:23] with these artifacts, just like the hard [10:25] stone de or hard stone bases, uh, it [10:28] just is out of place, you know, it [10:31] doesn't make any sense. And especially [10:32] in the British Museum, when you look at [10:34] these with your own eyes, um, and then [10:37] you read the story of how they believe [10:38] that they were made, you know, it's it [10:40] just doesn't it doesn't add up. And so [10:43] all you have to do, you know, in any of [10:45] these places is dig one or two levels [10:47] down and you start to start to see a lot [10:49] of inconsistencies. [10:51] >> One or two levels. So meaning that the [10:53] older stuff is the more complex. [10:55] >> Yeah. Or um with the way that the [10:59] archaeologists have interpreted a lot of [11:01] these sites, there's a whole lot of uh [11:05] assumptions that are made. You know, [11:07] there's there's carbon dating that only [11:09] goes partway down. uh you know they [11:12] they'll dig partway down, they'll date [11:13] it, it matches their story, and they [11:15] write the report. They'll take [11:17] inscriptions, you know, especially in [11:19] Cambodia, places like that, where a king [11:22] has written an inscription, and they'll [11:24] say, "Yep, well, that king wrote on [11:26] this, so this must have been made at [11:28] this time." And there's really no no [11:30] further investigation. Um, so it's it's [11:33] become a theme with my work um where [11:36] I'll go somewhere specifically with the [11:38] megalithic uh architecture. You can you [11:42] can see exactly where the old [11:45] architecture was built. Oftentimes it's [11:47] the lowest level and then you can see [11:49] where other cultures have come later and [11:51] built on top of it. And it just looks it [11:54] looks like a [11:56] just a copy of what's underneath. It's [11:58] like they were really trying to make [12:00] what they saw, but they just couldn't. [12:02] And so once you've kind of trained your [12:04] eye for that, you go anywhere in the [12:06] world and you see it. [12:08] >> How did you start looking at this stuff? [12:10] >> Um, I went to Well, I went to Egypt four [12:14] years ago and watched Ben Van Kirkwick's [12:16] videos. You know, Ben. [12:18] >> Sure. [12:18] >> Um, he's awesome. [12:19] >> So, I watched a couple of his videos on [12:21] the way to Egypt. That was my first kind [12:25] of introduction to this and then it just [12:27] became a bit of a obsession for me. Um I [12:31] like to go to the sites around the world [12:33] that other people don't really go to. So [12:36] um you know I think Egypt and Peru and [12:39] Turkey that's it's all in good hands, [12:42] right? Ben's Ben's watching over Egypt. [12:44] We've got Brian Forester down in Peru [12:46] doing amazing work. Um the sites I go to [12:49] are the sites that nobody else really [12:51] visits. Um, so I just got back from [12:53] India a couple weeks ago. I spent a lot [12:56] of time in Cambodia. I went to Thailand. [12:59] And these are the sites that I think if [13:01] you're trying to make a case or at least [13:04] a strong enough case that people will [13:06] consider, right, that there may be a [13:08] different history than what we're being [13:10] told. Um, I think you have to have more [13:14] than three examples. So if you can start [13:16] to to do a lot of research on these [13:18] sites all around the world, um you can [13:22] have thousands of examples of nubs for [13:25] example or megalithic architecture that [13:27] looks very similar. These walls that [13:29] look very similar all over the world [13:31] >> and it just make in my mind it makes a [13:33] much stronger case for it than just [13:35] continuing to look at the same sites [13:36] over and over again. It seems to me so [13:39] much more likely that the the timeline [13:43] is incorrect than the historians are [13:46] right and everyone else is just a [13:47] conspiracy theorist weirdo. The the more [13:50] you look at it, the more the more [13:52] questions I have like that Kyasa temple [13:56] in India. Yeah, [13:57] >> we've gone over that a few times, but [13:59] Jamie pointed out something that they [14:01] brought in about was it like an army to [14:03] try to destroy it. [14:04] >> Mhm. [14:05] >> And they barely put a dent in the damn [14:07] thing. [14:07] >> Yeah. [14:07] >> And they they stayed for a long time. [14:09] They tried to smash it up and they [14:11] couldn't do [ __ ] to it. [14:12] >> Yeah. [14:12] >> And then you go, "Okay, well, how did [14:14] they make this? What did they? And I saw [14:16] a a really wild uh YouTube video the [14:19] other day where this guy was proposing [14:20] that they used lasers and that it was [14:22] all laser carved and that they had some [14:25] sort of like super sophisticated laser [14:27] setup back then. That's why you're not [14:28] finding all the stone [14:30] >> that was [14:31] >> well you know it [14:32] >> like what? Wait a minute. [14:34] >> Look, I think that's absolutely [14:37] possible. It sounds but also so insane [14:40] that we're so wrong about the linear [14:42] timeline of human history that they had [14:45] [ __ ] lasers in India like how many [14:48] thousands of years ago [14:49] >> that they were using to carve an entire [14:52] massive perfect temple out of rock [14:56] >> you know I was just down at the Hoala [14:58] temples which are in southern India and [15:00] they have these lathes lathe turned [15:03] pillars the pillars are feet across [15:06] they're huge [15:07] and you walk up to them and you look at [15:09] them closely and you can see the lathe [15:11] marks on them and archaeologists concede [15:14] that they're lathe turned but they don't [15:16] concede that it's machined. So they [15:19] basically say well maybe they were [15:21] turned on a lathe. We'll give you that [15:22] but that was probably humanpowered or [15:24] animal powered. Yeah. So these are [15:27] >> god [15:27] >> these are the statue or the uh lathe [15:30] turn pillars in southern India. I was [15:31] just looking at these with my own eyes a [15:33] couple weeks ago. It's completely [15:36] unexplainable. And to think of the size [15:38] of the machine that would be required. [15:41] You say you turn that pillar sideways, [15:44] you connect it to a machine on each side [15:46] and you start lathing. Um Jamie, I have [15:49] a folder in my India [15:52] uh pictures that [15:54] >> God that's so pretty [15:55] >> that has lots of ev So what you can see [15:58] at sites like Hampy in India is you can [16:00] see the evidence of lathing. So, it [16:03] almost looks like the setup that they [16:06] would have used to carve these kinds of [16:08] pillars. And it's just sitting in kind [16:11] of far-flung corners of these sites. [16:14] Nobody addresses what they are. Um, and [16:17] and so the evidence is everywhere of [16:20] this. It's just not, you know, it's [16:22] written off. It's like, well, that must [16:24] have been an animal powered lathe, [16:27] you know. So, I I do think we have [16:29] strong evidence for machining in ancient [16:31] history. And in my mind, it doesn't have [16:33] to be machines. You know, there there [16:35] could have been other ways that they [16:37] were doing this that we don't even [16:38] recognize. [16:39] >> So, what is this that we're looking at? [16:40] >> So, this is in um this is at the museum [16:43] in Hampy in southern India. And that to [16:47] me looks like the L. So, it looks like [16:50] where a pillar might have been placed [16:53] and the machine was spinning um you [16:56] know, some sort of a lathe machine. So I [16:59] I think it's like the you know the other [17:01] side of these pillars basically [17:03] >> like the the end plates. [17:04] >> Yeah. Exactly. [17:05] >> Right. Okay. And so these pillars, how [17:09] large are they? Can you Jamie, could you [17:11] go to that image in the lower right hand [17:12] corner, please? That one right there. [17:14] That God, I can't get over how pretty [17:16] that is. [17:16] >> They're so incredible in real life, too. [17:18] >> How tall are they? [17:19] >> Way tall. I mean, I my head would [17:21] probably go halfway up that pillar. [17:23] They're twice as tall as me. [17:25] >> So immensely heavy. And what kind of [17:27] stone is it carved out of? [17:29] >> This is a chloritic shist. So it's a [17:32] it's called soap stone. [17:34] >> So pretty. [17:35] >> But there are lathed turn pillars that [17:37] are also granite. [17:38] >> In in southern India, it's a soap stone. [17:41] So when it's uh quarried, it's a little [17:43] bit softer and then it hardens once it's [17:45] out of the quarry. [17:46] >> Has anyone done an analysis of the [17:49] geometry in these things? Like how [17:52] precise it is and how like I'm I'm [17:55] looking at it. If you go to that the one [17:57] uh next to it, please. That one. The [17:59] Yeah, that one. When I'm looking at the [18:02] precision of that and how many different [18:05] pieces there are, I I would love to know [18:08] how uniform those are because it looks [18:11] insane. That looks so beautiful. [18:14] >> It's [18:15] >> We're looking at uh how do you say that [18:16] word? Copeswar. [18:18] >> Copwar. Madev. Is that how you say it? [18:20] Mahadev. [18:22] >> God, that's pretty. [18:23] >> It's incredible. And you know, these [18:25] sites have crazy energy, too. You walk [18:28] into them and you can tell that they [18:29] were they were made with a lot of love. [18:32] Um, these these pillars, you know, you [18:35] can't help but touch them. [18:37] >> You're allowed to touch them. [18:38] >> Yeah, absolutely. [18:40] >> Look at that. Like, I would love to know [18:42] what the precision of that is. [18:44] >> Yeah. [18:45] >> Because really, imagine if it's insanely [18:48] precise and then you have to explain [18:50] that, too. Not just stone chisels and [18:52] tools and stuff, but [18:54] >> when you can see in the pillars, you can [18:56] see where the lathe started at the [18:58] bottom and you can see where it stopped [18:59] at the top. It's just it's just running. [19:02] And you know, a lot of people are like, [19:03] "Well, turn it sideways. Is that some [19:06] sort of a a soundwave, right? Is it [19:09] mimicking? Is it telling us something?" [19:12] >> This episode is brought to you by Armra. [19:14] Every week there's some new wellness [19:16] hack that people swear by and after a [19:18] while you start thinking why do we think [19:20] we can just outsmart our bodies. That's [19:23] why arra colostrum caught my attention. [19:26] It's something the body already [19:28] recognizes and has hundreds of these [19:30] specialized nutrients for gut stuff, [19:33] immunity, metabolism, etc. I first [19:36] noticed it working around training, [19:38] especially workout recovery. Most stuff [19:40] falls off, but I am still taking this. [19:42] If you want to try, Armra is offering my [19:44] listeners 30% off plus two free gifts. [19:47] Go to armra.com/rogan. [19:51] I'm glad you point that out. I've seen [19:52] that, too. Does that make sense? [19:54] >> I think so. [19:55] >> Can I say that again, Jamie? [19:56] >> Yeah, I was just trying to find out your [19:58] question [20:00] >> of how precise they are. [20:02] >> Oh, here it goes. The pillars in how do [20:04] you say it? Suara Mandap of Copwar [20:08] Temple are lathe turned with extremely [20:10] uniform circular and poly polygonal [20:13] profiles [20:14] showing high geometric precision and [20:16] tight alignment despite being carved [20:18] from stone without mortared joints. [20:21] >> It says it resembles machine turned [20:23] work. [20:24] >> Resembles. [20:25] >> Yeah, [20:25] >> that's cute. [20:26] >> Mhm. [20:27] >> Isn't it more likely that it was machine [20:30] turned if it's exactly? Pillars are laid [20:33] out with consistent spacing in the [20:34] circular hall so that the open oculus in [20:36] the ceiling remains perfectly centered, [20:38] suggesting careful radial planning and [20:41] load distribution. The temple uses [20:42] interlocking stone and gravity rather [20:44] than mortar. So the precise fit of the [20:46] pillars into bases and beams is critical [20:49] to stability and is cited as an example [20:51] of advanced medieval Indian stone [20:53] engineering. [20:55] One thing that's interesting when you go [20:56] to these temples is you can see where [21:00] they have moved these pillars into the [21:02] temples. So the core of most of these [21:04] temples in my opinion is the original [21:07] megalithic part of these temples, the [21:09] oldest stuff. But you can see where [21:11] these pillars have been moved into new [21:13] temples. And so you'll see these crazy [21:16] precise dark stones. [21:18] >> Says this is a rotating pillar. [21:20] >> What? [21:21] >> I think it used to rotate. It does not [21:24] anymore. I actually saw that pillar. [21:26] >> When did it stop? [21:27] >> I don't know. And maybe that's just a [21:29] myth. I have no idea. But you can see [21:32] where they they moved these pillars from [21:35] original temples or maybe who knows? [21:36] Maybe they found a workshop somewhere [21:38] with these and they put them in the in [21:40] the center of the newer temples. So it's [21:43] it's not precise at all. Very crude [21:46] stonework above and below them. And then [21:48] they have this perfect lathe pillar [21:49] right in the middle. What? So what is [21:51] the timeline that they attribute to the [21:54] construction of these? [21:55] >> Oh, you know, 1,200 to,500 AD. [21:58] >> And why do they say that? [22:00] >> Because the kings that ruled during that [22:02] time period wrote inscriptions [22:04] >> on the pillars in a lot of instances on [22:07] the sides of the temples, things like [22:09] that. [22:09] >> Yeah. [22:10] >> It's it's all inscriptional evidence. [22:13] >> I would need more evidence, you know. [22:15] >> Right. Well, what's really interesting [22:17] I've done a lot [22:17] >> That's great. It's graffiti. [22:19] >> Yeah. I've done a lot of research in [22:20] Cambodia and they they date all of their [22:24] uh all of their temples based on [22:26] inscriptions and when you actually run [22:28] these inscriptions through AI and you [22:31] translate them, they've all been [22:32] translated from Sanskrit to French. I [22:35] then translated it from French to [22:36] English and when you read what the kings [22:38] actually wrote, very seldom do they say, [22:42] I king so and so built this. What they [22:44] say is I installed a lingum. I brought [22:48] a, you know, I brought a a statue to [22:50] this temple. And so the archaeologists [22:52] make a fairly big jump between what the [22:56] kings actually wrote and saying, well, [22:59] this king must have built this. So in a [23:01] lot of instances, they're actually [23:02] putting words into into their mouths. [23:05] >> Wow. Um, so what is your belief in terms [23:10] of the timeline of the construction of [23:11] these things? [23:13] I mean it in the oldest instances it I I [23:17] personally believe that it's pre flood [23:21] so you know more than 12,000 years ago. [23:23] I think there are some that are probably [23:26] older very you know [23:29] Peru is I just got back from Peru a [23:31] couple of months ago that's fully [23:33] unexplainable. You've talked about Peru [23:35] on your show many times. Egypt is [23:37] incredibly ancient. I actually believe [23:39] that India is one of the most ancient [23:41] places on earth. Um, and were they were [23:44] they different civilizations building [23:46] there? What they built suggests that it [23:48] probably was. Were they in contact with [23:51] each other? I believe they were. You [23:53] know, there's enough similarities around [23:55] the world that it feels like there was a [23:57] communication network between them. But [23:59] when you look at the actual building [24:01] styles between, take those three [24:03] examples, India, Egypt, and Peru, [24:06] they're completely different, right? E [24:08] Egypt is very just uh just blocks, very [24:12] few decorations, especially in places [24:14] like the Oyerion. It doesn't it's just [24:17] um it almost looks it's like clinical, [24:20] you know, but then you're in Peru and [24:22] it's playful there. There are these big [24:24] pillowy blocks and then you go to India [24:27] and there's carvings all over [24:28] everything, right? And so I do believe [24:31] that there are certain places in this [24:33] world that are substantially older and I [24:36] believe that for thousands of years [24:39] civilizations have been they're [24:41] attracted to these places and they build [24:43] on top of them and they settle there and [24:45] so you just see generation after [24:46] generation after generation of building [24:48] on top of them. [24:49] >> Well, it makes sense when you think [24:50] about Kyasa because look how perfect it [24:54] is now. And this is thousands of years [24:57] after they attribute it to being built [24:59] or at least a thousand years. [25:00] >> Yeah. [25:01] >> And it looks like there's been zero [25:03] erosion. [25:04] >> Yeah. [25:04] >> Now add a few thousand years to that, [25:07] it's going to look exactly the same. [25:09] >> Yeah. [25:09] >> And if you're just generation after [25:11] generation like not knowing who built it [25:14] and you get a version of uh you know [25:16] this king said he did it or this guy [25:18] said he did like how add a few thousand [25:21] years and it's [ __ ] guesswork. [25:23] >> 100%. And to have archaeologists shift [25:26] through dirt and find an inscription [25:28] somewhere and go, "Oh, we nailed it." [25:30] Like, [25:31] >> god, that's such a disservice to what [25:33] the complexity of the mystery of what [25:35] we're looking at is. Yeah. [25:37] >> Like just the Kyasa one is. I am [25:39] obsessed with that place. I've I've [25:41] watched like four or five documentaries [25:42] on it and see and we went over it on the [25:46] podcast the other day with the CEO of [25:47] Perplexity. It's like it's [ __ ] [25:50] bananas. [25:51] >> Yeah. It's so crazy how precise and one [25:54] mistake and you're [ __ ] Y [25:56] >> but yet it's all geometrically aligned. [25:59] There's they have no idea what they did [26:01] with all the stone. [26:02] >> Yeah, [26:03] >> that's the big question, right? [26:04] >> That seems so crazy. [26:05] >> They removed an entire cliffside [26:08] mountain and you know it was it was they [26:10] carved it from the top down. [26:11] >> Yeah. And put it where would you do it [26:13] at all? [26:13] >> Good question. [26:14] >> That's so much rock. That's not a little [26:16] bit of rock. You would think there'd be [26:17] some laying around. [26:18] >> Yeah. Even after thousands of years, [26:20] you'd have like a pile somewhere. Like, [26:22] [ __ ] it. Anybody want some free stone? [26:23] It's over there. No one's going to take [26:25] all the stone. You have [ __ ] millions [26:27] and millions of tons of stone. Like, [26:29] that's crazy. What' you do with it? [26:31] >> You know what I wonder? I wonder I do [26:34] feel for archaeologists, right? I mean, [26:36] they they go to a site and they're like, [26:38] gosh, maybe this feels a little older, [26:39] but the only evidence I have are [26:42] potshurds that I can date. I can dig [26:45] down and I can find cultural layers of [26:47] cultures that in my opinion lived there [26:50] afterwards. They're dating that and they [26:52] see inscriptions and that's the evidence [26:55] that they have to make their case. But I [26:57] do wonder how many of them are looking [26:59] at these sites and saying, "Yeah, this [27:01] actually doesn't make a whole lot of [27:02] sense." [27:03] >> A lot of the young ones, [27:04] >> I've talked to them. I've talked to [27:06] them. Um I think this the hierarchal the [27:09] hierarchal what's the word? hierarchy [27:12] the structure of academics and in terms [27:15] of these guys that are teaching [27:17] university courses and giving out PhDs [27:19] and writing books and they have a vast [27:22] body of work that's all about the [27:24] timeline and all about you know what [27:27] they know and they are the gatekeepers [27:29] of information [27:30] >> and there's a lot of ego involved with [27:32] academics I'm sure you know that [27:34] >> and they get really shitty with each [27:36] other and they're vicious they're [27:37] vicious when they attack each other even [27:39] if they're wrong like the the whole [27:41] Clovis first thing was the best example [27:44] of that. [27:45] >> The gentleman who proposed this theory [27:47] that there were people here older than [27:48] the Clovis people was destroyed [27:51] >> by by his own peers. [27:53] >> And it took years before it was proven [27:56] that he was correct. And not only was he [27:57] correct, but he was correct by like over [27:59] 10,000 years. Yeah. [28:01] >> Like now they're pushing it past 22,000 [28:03] years ago because of the footprints they [28:05] found in White Sands, New Mexico. [28:06] >> Right. The peopleing of the Americas. [28:08] >> Yes. Humans have been here a long long [28:11] long time. And this is just indicative [28:15] of this pattern that happens whenever [28:17] anybody comes up with any sort of an [28:18] alternative theory that doesn't come [28:20] from the gated halls of academia. [28:22] They're just dismissed. But but [28:25] academics have only been around for a [28:27] few hundred years. Like we have to stop [28:29] and think about how crazy it is that [28:31] we've put the power in these people that [28:33] we know are not always accurate nor are [28:35] they compromised and they have ego [28:36] problems and they have this structure of [28:39] the people at the top that are giving [28:43] out grants and giving out funding and [28:46] giving PhDs and reading people's [28:48] dissertations. It's like it's very [28:51] social and it's very complex and to [28:54] deviate from the narrative is [28:57] devastating for your career. Like if if [28:59] they can destroy the guy who proposed [29:02] that Clovis first was incorrect. That [29:03] guy was a an academic. He was [29:06] established. Yeah. [29:07] >> Imagine if you're a [ __ ] PhD student [29:09] and you're like, I think you guys are [29:11] wrong. Well, you're [ __ ] forever. You [29:13] know, I used to work in corporate [29:14] America and there were a lot of things [29:16] that I thought that I absolutely never [29:19] said. Right? So, if you think about [29:21] these young archaeologists, even if they [29:23] see something and they think, gosh, I [29:25] wish that I could dive into that and [29:27] really explore how old this is, they're [29:29] going to get shut down immediately and [29:31] their self-preservation mechanisms are [29:33] going to kick in because they've got a [29:34] paycheck. You know, you have to [29:36] sympathize with the situation that [29:38] they're in. [29:38] >> Oh, I do. I completely do. Look, we've [29:40] all worked for shitty bosses. It's a [29:42] terrible position to be in [29:44] >> and especially if your shitty boss is in [29:46] charge of the distribution of [29:49] >> information about the history of the [29:50] human race. That is crazy. That is crazy [29:53] to get ego involved in that. [29:54] >> I know [29:55] >> because when you see like the attacks on [29:57] guys like Graham Hancock and all these [29:59] people that propose that this data that [30:02] we should look at that just like there's [30:04] there's a bunch of data that confounds [30:06] the timeline like it it [ __ ] it [30:09] completely up. Yeah. when Gob Beckley [30:11] came along and then everybody was like, [30:13] "Okay, we're in a we have a problem. We [30:15] have an 11,000 plus year old structure [30:18] for sure. It was purposely buried 11,000 [30:21] plus years ago." So, how old is it? It's [30:24] at least 11,000 years old. That doesn't [30:26] make any sense cuz timeline of [30:27] civilization, it's supposed to be 6,000 [30:28] years ago. So, now we have immense stone [30:31] structures with 3D carvings that are in [30:33] concentric circles. That's 5,000 years [30:36] older than that. Okay, these are hunter [30:38] gatherers. They were just [ __ ] that [30:41] in their spare time from killing [30:43] antelopes, they decided they were going [30:45] to build immense structures on the top [30:47] of a hill. [30:48] >> Well, and don't you find it interesting [30:49] that the dating of Gobeclet has not [30:52] opened the door to redating other sites [30:55] around the world. So, when you talk [30:56] about the stuff in Egypt, nobody's [30:58] really open to saying maybe this is [31:00] 10,000 years old. Should we look again? [31:02] >> Right? [31:03] >> You know, that that story has been [31:04] written. There's been a period on it and [31:06] it's been put to bed. Not only that, [31:08] there's actual geological evidence. And [31:11] this is where Robert Shock came into [31:12] play. You know, I have had him on the [31:14] podcast before, and I remember watching [31:16] that documentary on the mysteries of the [31:18] Sphinx, and he proposed that there's [31:21] water erosion on the outside of the [31:22] Temple of the Sphinx. And he he's taken [31:26] photos of that erosion and brought it to [31:28] other geologists and said, "What do you [31:30] think this is?" And they said, "Well, [31:31] that's water erosion." And then he shows [31:33] them where it came from. They I don't [31:35] want to have nothing to do with this. [31:36] >> Yeah. [31:37] Just kidding. It's the wind. [31:38] >> Crazy. Which is crazy. Imagine the [31:41] timeline of human history is so [31:43] controversial that you're worried that [31:45] it would ruin your career if you spoke [31:47] accurately about your field of [31:49] expertise, which is erosion and geology [31:52] due to rainfall. Thousands of years of [31:55] rainfall. Well, thousands of years of [31:56] rainfall means at the very least the [31:59] Sphinx is 9,000 years old. [32:00] >> Yeah. [32:01] >> At the very least. But that's probably [32:03] way older than that because you have to [32:05] have thousands of years of rainfall from [32:06] the time that it was constructed [32:08] constructed to make these kind of deep [32:10] fissures into this stone [32:13] >> and it was buried for much of its recent [32:14] history which means there was not [32:16] erosion taking place the entire time it [32:18] was buried. [32:19] >> Yeah. It the whole thing's nuts and the [32:21] the wind and sand erosion that's an [32:23] argument against that right because it [32:24] was covered in sand. [32:25] >> Yeah. And it, you know, if there was [32:28] rain erosion like they're proposing, it [32:30] had to have been when there was [32:31] rainfall, significant rainfall in the [32:33] Nile Valley. And that's way back 9,000 [32:36] years ago. [32:37] >> A long time ago. Yep. And, you know, I [32:39] guess it just it breaks my heart a [32:41] little bit that this conversation gets [32:43] shut down because if you think about [32:46] think about 23 and me, right? the the [32:49] number of people that have subscriptions [32:51] to websites like that because they are [32:54] extremely interested in where they came [32:56] from and it opens up their world when [32:58] they can see four generations back. It [33:01] gives them you know people that that [33:03] belong to these subscription services [33:05] will say I finally have a sense of [33:06] belonging. I kind of feel like I know [33:08] where I came from. We as a humanity [33:11] imagine if we actually knew where we [33:13] came from. I think we would feel a lot [33:15] less lost. I don't think it's sad. I [33:19] think it's funny. I think it's just [33:21] another example of just how funny people [33:23] are, how we're so weird. We're so full [33:26] of [ __ ] and we're we're we're just so [33:28] filled with this desire to be correct [33:31] and to enforce our narrative that we do [33:34] it even with facts that are like [33:36] significantly important for the entire [33:37] world. And I think it's funny because it [33:40] doesn't work because it's only opened [33:42] the door to people like you and people [33:44] like Derek and people like Graham [33:46] Hancock and Ben Van Kirkwick and Jimmy [33:48] Corsetti and all these people that Luke [33:50] Caverns they just spend enormous amounts [33:52] of time making this incredible content. [33:55] >> Yeah. [33:55] >> Like all the stuff that Luke has done in [33:57] the Americas in South America like good [34:00] lord there's so many mysteries. Like [34:03] explain away Sakai Huan. Explain away [34:07] those stones. Help me out. Help me out. [34:10] Pe how people with no steel and no heavy [34:13] machinery move these things into [34:16] position. Move these 20 foot tall [34:19] immense stones that are cut like jigsaw [34:21] puzzles. It looks like they were melted [34:23] into place. [34:24] >> Yeah. It looks like a melted marshmallow [34:26] stacked on top of a melted marshmallow. [34:28] >> It's literally bananas. It makes no [34:31] sense. And then you have the weirdness [34:32] of these elongated heads that they find [34:35] down there. These skulls that are [34:37] absolutely real skulls. These are not [34:40] hoaxes. They have a 30 20 to 30% larger [34:44] brain capacity. [34:45] >> Yep. [34:46] >> In the skull. [34:47] >> I have personally seen elongated skulls [34:49] in four different countries. [34:51] >> And it's not the same as skulls that [34:54] were manipulated to be flattened. That's [34:56] what's different. So, what people think [34:58] about this, there's a a very well-known [35:01] practice where they would take boards [35:03] and put them on children's heads to [35:04] elongate their heads. The question is [35:06] why were they doing that? [35:08] And were they trying to emulate [35:10] something [35:10] >> That's right. [35:11] >> that existed, another type of person [35:14] that was here. Well, it seems like it. [35:17] And it seems like these skulls that they [35:19] find, particularly in Peru, the bones [35:22] are larger. It's a larger face and they [35:24] have a larger brain capacity. And they [35:27] don't have that sagittal ridge. [35:29] >> Yep. The sagittal suture. [35:31] >> Sagittal suture that's down the middle. [35:33] >> So, they're literally a different kind [35:35] of skull. It's clearly human or some [35:37] form of human, [35:39] >> but it has more brain volume and it's [35:42] built different than us. And everybody's [35:44] like, [35:46] >> I don't see anything. [35:47] >> Nope. They're not like, "Hey, maybe [35:49] there was a completely different species [35:52] of human that existed along with just [35:54] like Dennisovvens, just like Neanderls, [35:56] just like all these new ones that they [35:59] keep finding fairly recently." Like the [36:02] one they found in China, the big-headed [36:03] man. What was it? What was that one [36:05] called again? Julian's. Homo Julian's. [36:08] >> This is like really recent. Like a few [36:10] years ago, they found this. Like, [36:11] >> okay, we we don't have the picture, [36:13] guys. We just don't we don't have the [36:14] full We don't have all the data. And [36:16] when you have these [ __ ] big skulls [36:19] and you're not even bringing that up, it [36:20] makes me think like, are you afraid to [36:23] look at this? Because then you have to [36:25] admit that you really didn't know this [36:27] and you were walking around saying [36:29] you're an expert in the human timeline. [36:31] >> Imagine some of the capabilities of of [36:35] these people with that much more brain [36:37] volume. Could they speak telepathically? [36:40] Could they move stones with their minds, [36:43] with sound? Right? We don't know what [36:45] they were able to do. If you just unlock [36:48] an additional 10% of your brain [36:50] capacity, Joe Rogan's brain capacity. [36:52] Think of what? Think of all of the [36:55] connections you would make. Think about [36:56] all of the things you could do that you [36:58] can't do now. And now expand your brain [37:00] volume by 30%. Exactly like [37:02] >> the Bradley Cooper movie. Remember? [37:04] >> Yes. [37:04] >> Yeah. And he kept the same size head [37:06] >> or the movie Lucy with Scarlett [37:08] Johansson [37:09] just unlocking her full brain. And [37:11] suddenly she was moving things [37:13] >> with her mind. Right. So, were these [37:16] people able to do things that regular [37:18] humans couldn't? And that's why they [37:20] were emulated throughout history with [37:22] cradle headboarding. They were the [37:24] elite. They were maybe building some of [37:26] these structures. Who knows? And if you [37:28] are if you are just an average Joe in [37:31] that community, you want to look like [37:33] them, right? You all of us do it, right? [37:35] >> Especially the elites of the time. [37:38] >> Yeah. [37:39] >> Especially the humans that you know were [37:41] the kings and the pharaohs and all these [37:43] different people. They wanted to have [37:44] those heads. [37:45] >> Mhm. Yep. There were some really [37:47] interesting [37:48] >> It sounds like we're crazy people, [37:50] right? If I just tuned into this, it'd [37:52] be like, "Oh, great. Another one of [37:53] those [ __ ] Joe Rogan shows where [37:54] he's talking to crazy people." But then [37:56] you see, Jamie, pull up some of the [37:57] images of those skulls. I know we've [37:59] shown them a million times. [38:00] >> I have a folder with skulls. I can show [38:01] you some really interesting ones from [38:03] England. [38:04] >> Oh. [38:04] >> That are on small bodies. So, it they [38:08] almost look like fairies. And they have [38:10] these giant skulls on these very small [38:12] bodies. And it does make you think that [38:14] probably had something to do with the [38:16] mythology of fairies in in England. This [38:19] was at Aberry, which is one of the big [38:20] stone circles. When you walk into the [38:22] museum there, there are these amazing [38:24] anomalous elongated skulls on these very [38:27] tiny little bodies. [38:29] >> Wow. [38:30] >> The other interesting thing about [38:31] elongated skulls, [38:32] >> are they children? [38:33] >> Um, I don't think so. No. There's a [38:36] woman named Maria Whitley who writes all [38:38] about these skulls that she found that [38:40] have been found all over England. Um, [38:43] that's Egypt. Yeah, there it is. [38:46] >> Yeah. So, this is England. [38:49] This is one of the skulls, but this [38:50] skull is very small, but if you look at [38:53] the shape of it, you know, their their [38:56] ears are in a different spot. They have [38:58] huge eye sockets. Um, I have another [39:01] photo where it's there's one still [39:03] attached to a small body. Oh, [39:07] look at the size of that head. [39:08] >> Isn't that interesting? [39:09] >> That's crazy. [39:10] >> Now, this one may have been a child. I [39:12] don't remember specifically which of [39:13] these skulls. [39:14] >> Even as a kid, that kid's going to be a [39:15] football player. [39:16] >> He already has a helmet. [39:17] >> Kid has a giant head, [39:19] >> but it doesn't look right. It doesn't [39:21] look right. Even like I have babies, [39:23] >> they don't they don't have heads that [39:25] big. That's crazy. Even when a baby's [39:26] got a big head when they're little and [39:28] they're they can barely hold their head [39:29] up, it doesn't look like little [39:30] bobbleheads. [39:31] >> That's crazy. Another really interesting [39:33] >> Look how far we I'm sorry, but look how [39:34] far it goes behind the spine. [39:36] >> And look how flat it is at the bottom in [39:38] the back. Yes. [39:39] >> I mean, imagine holding that head up. [39:42] >> Well, that's the other weird thing about [39:44] these um elongated skulls. The the part [39:47] of the skull where it connects to the [39:50] spine is in a different place. [39:52] >> Yes. Which makes sense. Otherwise, you [39:54] know, you or I guess you'd probably your [39:57] head would fall backwards. [39:58] >> Like look at these. Look at these that [40:00] don't have that sagittal suture. That [40:02] one that's closest to us. That is crazy. [40:05] >> Yeah. So, that one's in Peru. I saw that [40:07] one a couple months ago. It looks [40:09] completely different than the skull [40:10] right behind it. [40:11] >> Right. It's like a different kind of [40:12] person. [40:13] >> Yes. Interestingly, in a lot of [40:16] >> they have one on the side and they don't [40:18] have the one down the middle. [40:20] >> Yeah. There's another one that's labeled [40:22] Malta and you can see the view of it [40:25] from the top and you can see how it [40:26] looks completely different than any of [40:28] the other. So here's an interesting [40:30] thing that I'm not sure you've talked [40:32] much about Joe. [40:33] >> Brain surgery. [40:34] >> The holes in the back of these skulls, [40:35] it's trepation. So it was a surgery that [40:38] they [40:39] >> that they see evidence of in lots and [40:41] lots of ancient skulls. And the question [40:44] becomes, so if you don't have a sagittal [40:47] suture and your brain, you know, we have [40:51] the our brain will fuse, right, as we [40:53] grow. [40:54] >> Sorry, but look at that. What it looks [40:56] like, it looks like they used drills. [40:58] >> Yeah. [40:59] >> Doesn't it? [41:00] >> Like they just drilled a circle around [41:01] that dude's head. [41:02] >> In a lot of instances, these people [41:04] survived these surgeries. [41:07] The question becomes, why were they [41:09] doing it? [41:09] >> Whoa, look at that top one. Scoop out [41:11] some brain, bro. That's crazy. Maybe [41:14] they were trying to relieve pressure. [41:16] >> Well, if your brain doesn't have all of [41:18] the sutures that ours does and and your [41:22] brain is fusing, there are some theories [41:24] that suggest that these people were [41:26] losing their uh connection with [41:29] consciousness. So, they because their [41:31] brains were so big, um they, you know, a [41:34] lot of telepathy and things like that. [41:36] So, if you if you cut a hole in a fused [41:39] skull, you still have access, right? It [41:42] it allows your allows you I guess more [41:46] space in your skull to access what you [41:48] use to access. [41:49] >> So it's like relieving pressure in some [41:51] way. This is the idea why they're doing [41:53] this trepation. [41:54] >> May I you know I think it's [41:55] >> we had a woman on who did trepidation to [41:56] herself. [41:57] >> Oh my gosh. I've read about her. [41:59] >> Yeah. Is she still alive? They were [42:01] doing labbotoies until pretty recently. [42:03] I know like what this is. [42:06] >> Yeah. Right. When [42:07] >> we knew better. [42:08] >> Is she still alive Jamie? I think she [42:10] might have passed recently. [42:11] >> And and her motivation for that, was it [42:14] not for consciousness? [42:16] >> Yes. [42:17] >> Yeah, [42:17] >> she was out there. [42:19] >> But isn't it interesting? [42:20] >> Lovely lady. Lovely lady, but she was [42:23] out there. [42:23] >> Yeah. [42:25] >> That lady had been on some trips. She [42:27] She had been to other dimensions many, [42:29] many, many, many times. [42:31] >> She passed away about a year ago. [42:32] >> Yeah. [42:32] >> Yeah. So, a sweet lady, too. She was so [42:34] kind. [42:35] >> It begs the question, what was the [42:36] motivation for doing that in these [42:38] ancient She described it in very glowing [42:41] terms. [42:42] >> The experience of trepation when she did [42:45] she did it to herself. So there's a [42:47] photo of her. Isn't there like a is [42:48] there a video of her doing it? [42:51] >> I know there's photos of the actual [42:53] procedure of her drilling a hole in her [42:54] head. Like yo, [42:57] >> it must be quite a sense of relief, [42:59] though. [43:00] >> I don't know. [43:00] >> Your brain's no longer locked in your [43:01] skull. [43:02] >> I mean, is that really what it is? I [43:03] don't want to find out. But I mean, I [43:05] know people that have had to have brain [43:07] surgery because they had brain bleeding. [43:09] Yeah, there it is. [43:09] >> Oh my gosh. [43:11] >> They just drilled a hole. Looks like [43:12] they use a stick. What the hell? [43:14] >> Okay. I think she did it. [43:15] >> What is she using? [43:17] >> Is she doing it to herself? [43:18] >> Yes. [43:19] >> No, [43:20] >> it's the only way. If you really want to [43:22] achieve one with chakras or some [ __ ] [43:26] >> you're probably not going to get a [43:27] doctor to sign up for that. [43:28] >> Jamie, can you find uh there's some [43:30] images of those elongated skulls. [43:31] There's a few really spectacular ones [43:33] that we pulled up the other day and one [43:35] of them is like the the sagittal suture [43:38] is completely missing and it's it's so [43:40] big and you're looking at it like, [43:42] "Okay, this is a real skull in a [43:43] museum." Like, help me out. Help me out, [43:47] anatomy experts. Why does it why does it [43:50] not have the features of a normal human [43:52] skull? And why is it so big? Like, [43:55] >> this seems completely insane. [43:57] >> The AI told me why, but I don't know if [43:58] that's [43:59] >> Yeah, shut it AI. [44:01] That's a That's a a bunch of [ __ ] [44:04] Archaeologists got an AI and wrote [44:06] >> I just thought bad articles [44:07] >> when I saw that one with the the little [44:08] kid or the small thing with the big back [44:11] of the dome. [44:12] >> Aren't there or could that be explained [44:14] by just like a a random [44:15] >> anomaly? Yeah, for sure. [44:17] >> Yeah, it depends on how many there are. [44:19] But go to the images of those uh those [44:21] skulls so we could see that crazy one. [44:23] >> I don't know why Google just changed and [44:25] there's no longer [44:25] >> they don't like you anymore. [44:26] >> No, like the whole website has changed. [44:27] They hate you. [44:28] >> I noticed it yesterday. You can't. [44:30] >> Oh, yeah. That is weird. You're being [44:31] sabotaged. [44:32] >> Oh, because they're trying to get you to [44:33] use AI. [44:33] >> Yeah, it's all gone. [44:34] >> Oh, that's so gross. Just write images. [44:39] >> Yeah. See, now now they'll show you. [44:40] Okay. So, it's the one on the far left [44:43] upper corner. It's right below it. [44:45] Sorry. There you go. That's it. That's [44:47] the one. [44:48] >> Look at the eyes. [44:49] >> Yeah. The whole thing is nuts. That the [44:51] fact that that is a real skull. It [44:53] should freak everyone out. That no one [44:56] is that this isn't in the front page of [44:57] the New York Times. that this isn't [44:59] something that everyone's investigating. [45:02] Like, this is not a physical anomaly. [45:05] This is a completely different skull. [45:07] That's not a regular human skull at all. [45:10] The capacity is so much larger. You [45:13] cannot explain that by headboarding. You [45:15] cannot explain the size of the [ __ ] [45:17] eye sockets is crazy. You imagine [45:20] looking into something. Who's that one [45:21] lady that has crazy big eyes? She's an [45:23] actress. Do you know what I'm talking [45:25] about, Jamie? She's really pretty. No, [45:26] but I've seen this big giant eyes pop [45:28] out of their head. [45:29] >> I I've seen that, too. But but that's [45:31] But they're not that big. The point is [45:33] like those eyes would be [ __ ] [45:35] enormous. Like if that person was in [45:38] front of you and they had skin on with [45:40] with those eye sockets and that head, [45:42] you'd be like, "Yo, [45:44] >> you know, I want you to meet my friend [45:46] Mike." They'd be like, "What the [ __ ] [45:47] That is not what it looks like. That [45:48] that drawing that drawing is way too [45:51] normal. [45:51] >> That head's way bigger than that, too, [45:53] by the way. [45:53] >> And the eyes are nothing [45:55] >> nothing like it. They're not even in the [45:56] same place. Like those eyes are in a [45:58] different place. Like those eyes those [45:59] eyes are in a nutty place. [46:01] >> I mean that that image on the right, the [46:03] the woman that could be what they looked [46:06] like if they were cradle head borders. [46:07] >> Yes. And her face looks flattened, too. [46:09] Like the whole thing looks which is such [46:11] a gross thing that they did to try to [46:13] emulate these people. [46:14] >> Imagine tying a baby up on a board and [46:16] telling it to stay. [46:17] >> Look at that. Skull was [46:18] >> Look at that one. Uh to the left, Jamie. [46:21] Left. Right below that. Yeah, that one. [46:23] Look at that one. What the hell is that? [46:25] with the trepation. [46:26] >> Yeah, but help me out. Tell me that's a [46:28] person. Help me out. That is not just an [46:32] elongated skull. That's crazy. That's [46:35] not [46:35] >> I wonder if that's a real photo. [46:37] >> I know. Well, almost a potential plaster [46:39] even [46:41] make this stuff. [46:42] >> That is true. That is true. People [46:44] >> that came out in Sasquatch organization. [46:46] >> Well, that's a reputable source. [46:47] >> I don't. [46:48] >> They are the best Sasquatch [46:49] organization. [46:49] >> I try not to judge all of those. I'm [46:50] just clicking the photo, but [46:52] >> they have all the real information. [46:53] There's a lot of misinformation in the [46:55] Sasquatch community. [46:56] >> Oh, yes. [46:57] >> Um, but that is the only place that [46:59] shows up. [47:01] >> Um, there's got to be other ones. Well, [47:03] that that one in the middle in the top [47:05] on the left. Yeah, right there. Click on [47:07] that. Look at those three. Like, come [47:09] on. [47:09] >> That almost Yeah, [47:10] >> it's still the same one. Those all the [47:11] same one or these [47:12] >> from different angles. [47:13] >> Well, the one in the middle looks [47:14] different than the one on the left. [47:16] >> Definitely. [47:17] >> Look at the recreation below, though. At [47:19] least his eyes are big. He looked [47:20] >> like Okay, that's a good one. That's a [47:23] good that's a good representation what [47:24] those people those people tell me that [47:26] dude can't read your mind [47:28] >> dude on the left he comes up to you with [47:29] those beads on like [47:31] >> I'll do whatever you say [47:32] >> you're like okay I guess we're [47:34] communicating with the mother ship [47:37] >> like look at the size of his head please [47:39] go back to that image again [47:41] >> hair [47:41] >> yeah that's is that real [47:43] >> yeah and most of the hair on these [47:45] elongated skulls is red [47:47] >> oh that's so wild that's so crazy um go [47:50] back to that last image please where she [47:52] you see the dude like that guy. Imagine [47:55] running into that guy at a at a Mayan [47:57] temple. You'd be like, "Oh, Christ, [47:59] they're real." [48:01] >> 100%. [48:02] >> Like that's a different kind of person. [48:05] >> Like that seems the eyes are [ __ ] [48:07] massive. That seems like a totally [48:10] different kind of person. [48:11] >> Yes. [48:12] >> You know, [48:12] >> who has very different abilities than [48:14] the average human. [48:15] >> Yes. I mean, if the brain is what [48:19] differentiates us from all the other [48:21] intelligent animals on this planet, and [48:22] a a human, it looks just like a human [48:25] but different, has a brain that much [48:27] bigger than ours. What is that? [48:30] >> That's a real thing, folks. This is [48:31] these We're not making this up. These [48:33] [ __ ] skulls are real. That's crazy. [48:37] >> Yep. [48:37] >> That is crazy that there was a person [48:39] like that. The only museum I've been to [48:41] in the world that has any sign that [48:44] indicates it may have been alien is [48:46] Malta. When you walk into the museum in [48:48] Malta, it actually has a poster that [48:51] talks about the the lack of the sagittal [48:53] suture. It has a picture of an alien on [48:55] it. [48:55] >> Really? [48:57] >> Wow. [48:57] >> And they leave their skulls out. A lot [48:59] of these museums, especially the ones in [49:01] southern Peru, they've sort of tucked [49:03] them away. They've put them in dark [49:04] cases so it's harder to take pictures of [49:06] them. You can't. They're not out there [49:08] in the open where it's easy to pop [49:10] around it. [49:11] >> They're probably worried about them [49:13] getting stolen, too. [49:15] >> That this There's an issue that I've [49:16] been informed about with uh ancient [49:19] artifacts that there's a whole [49:21] underground market where really wealthy [49:23] people like want to buy like Egyptian [49:26] artifacts. And there's a lot of scandals [49:29] involved with a lot of these people that [49:31] are in charge of these artifacts where [49:33] artifacts go missing and people get rich [49:37] and you know they sell books that nobody [49:39] buys and all a sudden they have a [49:40] mansion, you know. [49:41] >> Yep. Yep. [49:42] >> Yeah. And if you're if you're on a [49:44] government salary and you can slip one [49:45] of these voses away [49:47] >> and sell it, you're going to make a lot [49:48] more money than you're going to make in [49:49] the working for the government. [49:50] >> Not just voses, but even skeletons. [49:53] There's evidence of skeletons going [49:55] missing. Yep. skeletons they found in a [49:57] sarcophagus and then all of a sudden [49:59] they said, "Nope, there's no skeleton." [50:00] And then there's clearly documentation [50:02] that they found a skeleton that leads [50:05] back decades ago and then today they're [50:07] saying, "No, no skeletons." Like, [50:09] >> where's the skeleton? [50:11] >> Nothing to see here. [50:12] >> Yeah. And some of that that's the weird [50:14] thing is like some of these these skulls [50:17] that they find, if you could find the [50:19] entire skeleton, you would imagine that [50:21] is a very big person. These are not [50:24] normalsized people. Like whatever the [50:27] structure that's, unless they have an [50:30] enormous head and a little tiny body, if [50:32] they have a proportionate head to their [50:34] body, you're looking at a seven, eight [50:36] foot tall person. This is a huge head. [50:39] >> Yeah. And there's giant lore all over [50:40] the world in every ancient civilization. [50:42] >> And in the [ __ ] Bible, [50:44] >> I don't believe that that's imaginary. [50:46] And I don't believe it's myths. I think [50:48] that it's remembering. [50:50] >> Yeah, I think it is, too. I I think [50:52] there's probably a different version of [50:54] people that existed. [50:56] And uh I think the real problem is we'll [50:59] we're dealing with the fossil record. [51:01] And the reality of biological life is [51:04] neither you nor I is very likely to [51:06] leave behind a fossil. Yep. [51:07] >> So a thousand years from now, no one's [51:09] going to know who you were and no one's [51:11] going to know who I was. And they're [51:12] they're not going to be able to tell [51:13] from our bones. You're not going to find [51:15] them. Yeah. [51:16] >> They're going to be absorbed by the [51:17] ground and that's a wrap. And in order [51:20] to get a fossil, a very specific set of [51:23] circumstances has to take place. [51:24] >> Yeah. [51:25] >> And so, you know, we're lucky that we [51:26] have some skulls. We're lucky and [51:28] there's, you know, a thousand years old, [51:29] 2,000 years old, however old they are. [51:32] But you get back to 10, 11, 12,000 years [51:35] ago, 15,000 years ago, 50,000 years ago. [51:37] Good luck. [51:38] >> There's nothing left. [51:39] >> Good luck. Unless you're finding it in [51:41] the perafrost, like in Alaska, like my [51:44] friend John Reeves, he has that place, [51:45] the Boneyard in Alaska. He's the best. [51:48] That's so cool. [51:49] >> Love that. That place is crazy. [51:51] >> Have you been? [51:52] >> No. He keeps trying to get me to go out [51:53] there, and I I will eventually. I [51:54] promise. But, um, the spot is absolutely [51:58] bananas. He's finding all kinds of [52:00] insane things out there, including [52:01] animals that aren't even supposed to [52:02] have existed in that area. So, they're [52:04] rewriting the idea of like what was [52:07] alive, like what what animals were [52:09] alive, different cats and different [52:10] bears. [52:11] >> Yeah. [52:13] >> Like, we don't know that much. We're [52:15] we're basing like think about all we [52:17] know about the dinosaurs. It's amazing [52:18] how much work they've done. It's amazing [52:20] how many dinosaurs they've documented. [52:22] >> But if you look at the amount of [52:24] dinosaurs that actually lived over the [52:28] >> hundreds of millions of years, hundreds [52:29] of millions of years that dinosaurs roam [52:31] the earth, there's a tiny tiny tiny [52:33] fraction, a tiny fraction of these [52:36] dinosaurs that we find that are [52:38] fossilized. Yep. [52:39] >> Most of them are gone forever, including [52:41] who knows how many species that we're [52:42] completely unaware of. we have no [52:44] evidence of whatsoever. Now, think about [52:47] an intelligent species that probably [52:49] buried their dead like we do or maybe [52:51] even burned them. You know, we don't [52:53] know what they did. Or, you know, maybe [52:54] they were even more enlightened. They [52:56] did the Tibetan sky funeral where they [52:58] let themselves get eaten by vultures. [53:00] >> You're not going to find anything, [53:01] >> right? No, you're you're absolutely [53:04] right. I It feels like people should be [53:08] just maybe a little bit more open to our [53:10] past. [53:11] >> I think people are. I think the problem [53:13] is some of these, and I say some, it's [53:15] only some of these academics. [53:16] >> Yeah. [53:17] >> There's a lot of people that are [53:18] deviating from that now. And again, it's [53:19] a lot of young people, [53:20] >> you know, like guys like Michael Button, [53:22] do you know who he is? He's great. He [53:24] went to school, got a degree, and was [53:26] like, I think there's more to this, and [53:28] I think I could do a better job doing a [53:30] YouTube channel where I just research [53:32] these things thoroughly and provide you [53:34] with a very balanced perspective on how [53:37] crazy all this stuff is and how none of [53:39] this really makes sense if you use the [53:41] conventional timeline. [53:43] >> Yep. And people are hungry for that [53:45] information. [53:46] >> Yeah, I am. It's I'm obsessed. Thank [53:48] goodness that the internet has [53:49] democratized it so people people like me [53:52] can get on there and put a video on and [53:53] just see what people think. [53:55] >> And you really learn a lot when you see [53:57] people like you get attacked, you know, [53:59] and people like you Jimmy Corsetti and [54:01] all these people like they go after [54:03] people so hard [54:04] >> and they always take the same lot. They [54:06] always take [54:06] >> It's always racism. [54:07] >> It's racism. Exactly. That's what I was [54:08] going to say. Which is so crazy because [54:09] no one's attributing the Indian temples [54:11] to anything other than Indians, [54:13] >> right? [54:13] >> Like it's not racist. It's just saying [54:15] I'm saying Indians from like a long ass [54:17] time ago. It's the same people. They [54:19] >> It's something to be even more proud of. [54:20] >> Yes. Yeah. It's It's crazy. Like no one [54:23] is saying that the people in Peru, [54:26] humans in Peru, didn't make that stuff. [54:27] No one No one's saying that, right? [54:29] >> That's exactly what we're saying. Yep. [54:30] >> We're But what we're saying is probably [54:32] the people in Peru were incredibly [54:34] sophisticated before the flood. [54:36] >> Yeah. [54:36] >> That's probably what it was. [54:37] >> Egypt, it doesn't make any sense that [54:39] they're shutting that down. it to extend [54:41] your timeline if you're able to to [54:43] 20,000 years ago. That's twice as much [54:46] to be proud of. [54:47] >> Right. [54:48] >> Right. But it's it's just the academics [54:50] who have like firmly stamped 2500 BC. [54:53] Bam. This is this is what we know and [54:55] we're going to stick with it. Yeah. [54:57] >> Despite all the hard evidence, like the [54:59] geological evidence disputing that is [55:02] really weird [55:03] >> because like look guys, rain does a very [55:06] specific thing to stone over thousands [55:08] of years. This is hard evidence [55:09] >> right there. [55:10] >> Yeah, [55:10] >> that's right there. And you don't really [55:12] know when it was built. You're just [55:14] guessing. But this isn't really much of [55:16] a guess. This is actual evidence. [55:17] >> Yeah. [55:18] >> And for them to not even consider that [55:20] and to just dismiss them and just lucky [55:22] that guys like Robert Chuck had tenure. [55:24] >> And lucky that also that he wasn't an [55:26] archaeologist. He's a geologist. And [55:28] what are they going to fault him for his [55:29] methods, the way he did it, what he [55:31] said? No, you can't really because it's [55:33] pretty rock solid. We should be leaning [55:36] on these geologists and saying, "What do [55:38] you see?" and then informing our [55:40] theories based on what they're saying. [55:42] >> Yeah. [55:42] >> Not the other way around. [55:43] >> Ben Van Kirkwick has done amazing work [55:45] on some of the erosion that's around uh [55:48] some of the the the pyramids and some of [55:51] the bases of some of the structures [55:52] around the pyramid and that it seems [55:54] like there's many levels of construction [55:56] and that the oldest oldest stuff has a [55:58] preposterous amount of erosion. Like [56:00] insane amount of erosion. [56:02] >> Absolutely. [56:03] >> Yeah. [56:03] >> Yep. I mean even in so I've spent a lot [56:06] of time researching Cambodia. [56:09] If you look at the so there are eight [56:11] different pyramids in the immediate [56:14] anchor watt area and these pyramids are [56:17] massive and when you when you walk up to [56:19] them you can see how incredibly ancient [56:22] they are and the the dating on these [56:25] pyramids are you know 900 AD to 1300 AD. [56:29] So, not very old the official dating, [56:31] but when you stare at the stones, you [56:33] can see the same thing you see in Egypt. [56:35] You see just ancient weathering patterns [56:38] down the sides of them. You can see how [56:40] the whole site has been rebuilt and they [56:42] don't talk about it, right? So, the [56:44] entire history of Cambodia, nobody [56:47] nobody is open at all to exploring that [56:49] it might be older than 800 AD. [56:51] >> Let's look at some photos of Ankor Watt [56:54] because it's another incredibly bizarre [56:56] place. And um when people use the [56:59] conventional timeline to date it, it's [57:02] not it's amazing and it's beautiful, but [57:05] it's not as crazy when you really if if [57:08] if you take into consideration that no [57:11] one really knows when it was built and [57:15] the possibility that it's actually [57:16] 11,000 years old, 12,000 years old, [57:19] maybe even older, [57:21] >> it almost kind of makes sense. [57:24] Have you done [57:25] >> because it would look just like that? [57:27] >> Yeah. And the the temples or the towers [57:30] inside the core of Ankorwatt, in my [57:32] personal opinion, the core of Anchorwad, [57:35] it's got three different layers. The [57:37] core, I think, is extremely old. It's [57:39] got these five central towers. They look [57:42] almost melted. So, you can see the five [57:44] in the middle. As you move out by each [57:47] layer, all of the iconography in [57:50] Anchorwatt changes. So in the center [57:52] it's all um deities, it's religious [57:55] symbolism. As you move out it becomes [57:57] war scenes and elephants and battles, [58:00] right? So you can see where each [58:01] successive culture has built on to the [58:04] outside of Anchorwatt. [58:06] But the core of it, it it looks [58:08] enormously old. [58:10] >> And let's get some photos of the core of [58:12] it. [58:13] >> Have you ever have you ever discussed [58:16] the LAR findings around anchor watt? [58:19] >> I have not. [58:20] Jamie, I have some photos in my Cambodia [58:23] folder. [58:23] >> Trying to dance the line of looking at [58:25] these before I switch over to your [58:27] stuff. [58:27] >> God, look how beautiful that is. [58:30] >> Look how the the trees roots are growed [58:32] all around it. [58:33] >> Cambodia is one of the most special [58:35] places on this earth. [58:38] >> Imagine what that was like during its [58:40] prime. [58:40] >> Oh, [58:43] >> that's the Bon Temple. [58:45] >> The temple with 218 faces. [58:48] Wow. [58:50] >> Enormous faces. [58:51] >> So, uh, are those is that like those are [58:54] clearly different stones brought in. [58:55] >> Yeah, they're individual stones [58:57] >> to compare to the other stuff we've seen [58:58] where it's not that correct. [59:00] >> Yeah. Very different. Very different [59:02] kind of construction. Yeah. [59:03] >> I'll show you the light. [59:04] >> Spectacular, but maybe makes more sense [59:06] than like Kyasa. [59:08] >> In 2012, that's a great photo, Jamie. [59:10] >> In 2012, they did a LAR survey in [59:14] Cambodia. And what they discovered in [59:17] Cambodia [59:18] completely shocked the world. So you can [59:21] see Ankorwatt in this photo is right in [59:24] the middle of that giant moat. There [59:26] were huge moundfields all around [59:30] Ankorwatt inside this moat and outside [59:32] of Anchorwatt. And then if you go south [59:35] of it, you can see these giant spiral [59:37] embankments. If you just zoom out a tiny [59:40] bit, Jamie, do you see those spirals in [59:42] the bottom left side of the screen? [59:44] >> Mhm. Those are from one side to the [59:47] other. They're a mile long. [59:51] >> Yeah. So, these are the geometric [59:52] features at Anchor Watt. [59:54] >> And these are hidden from the nicot. [59:56] >> Yes. They're under the jungle canopy. [59:59] Nobody knew that these were there until [60:01] 2012 when the LAR results came out. [60:04] >> Holy [ __ ] [60:05] >> There are mound fields that are a mile. [60:08] This particular moundfield is a mile [60:10] long. It's got it's a 10x10 moundfield. [60:13] And these mounds are enormous. They're [60:15] like 30 feet across. And there's no [60:18] explanation at all for what these are. [60:23] >> And they didn't even know they existed. [60:24] >> They didn't even know they existed. So [60:27] this is Anchorwatt from the air. Very, [60:29] very interesting. That western beret [60:31] where you see, that's a man-made, it's [60:34] the largest hand cut reservoir on Earth. [60:37] It's 8 kilometers long and 2 km wide. So [60:41] you can see the old CMRE International [60:43] Airport just south of it. That's the [60:46] size of this thing. It is enormous. The [60:49] official archaeological story of these [60:52] berets is that they were uh hand dug and [60:56] that they were used to water rice. [61:00] There's one on the left side. That's a [61:02] western beret. There's an equally large [61:04] one on the east side. So there are two [61:06] of them that are 8 kilometers long on [61:09] each side. two kilometers wide. Just an [61:12] enormous volume of dirt would have had [61:14] to have been removed to create these. [61:17] And there's no discussion at all about [61:19] what they were for, how they were made. [61:22] They're just attributed to different [61:23] kings based on inscriptions found in the [61:25] corners of these sites. [61:27] So, if you want to talk about mysteries, [61:31] in my humble opinion, Cambodia is one of [61:34] the most mysterious places on Earth. [61:37] What did they how old do they think this [61:40] reservoir is? [61:41] >> Uh like 900 AD. So not old at all. And [61:46] there's no explanation for how it was [61:48] done. Just to excavate the western beret [61:51] is the equivalent of 53 Giza sized [61:54] pyramids of dirt moved out of it. So [61:58] this is it today. You can see there's a [62:00] temple in the middle of it. [62:02] >> That's so big. That's so crazy that they [62:05] they supposedly dug that out by hand. [62:07] >> You can see this from space. NASA's [62:09] taking photos of it before. [62:12] >> There's no explanation for for what they [62:14] were doing there. [62:15] >> What is the images of the pyramids up in [62:17] the corner? [62:18] >> That's the 50. Yeah, that's the [62:20] equivalent. So 138 million cubic meters [62:22] of dirt to dig that out. [62:24] >> How deep is it? [62:25] >> It's, you know, five or 10 meters deep. [62:29] Um, and I I believe that they, you know, [62:32] they dug out the inside and then they [62:33] built these large walls, you know, [62:35] retaining walls on the outside. So, I [62:37] don't think that there's huge piles of [62:38] dirt somewhere. I think that's, you [62:40] know, it was just deepened and then they [62:42] built the walls around them to retain [62:43] them. But there's a lot of really uh [62:46] interesting complex things going on with [62:48] these berets. [62:51] >> Uh, this reminds me of I'd had [62:53] Perplexity dig up something on the Kiosa [62:55] Temple. [62:56] >> Yeah. [62:57] >> Uh, let me find it here. it [63:00] >> I was it was just going into like um is [63:03] the ability of what do you know how many [63:05] people they thought made it I guess I'll [63:07] ask you that first do you know how they [63:09] the conventional method they said 250 [63:12] people made it over five and a half [63:14] years [63:18] >> the problem with that is uh it started [63:20] to [63:20] >> I like to hire those dudes [63:22] >> it started to tell me like that's kind [63:23] of like okay but then it started to get [63:26] I was like actually the hardest part [63:27] with this is going to be removing all of [63:29] that rock. [63:30] >> Yeah. [63:30] >> Like where not they couldn't didn't say [63:33] like where is it but it just was going [63:34] into the math. This is all the the [63:36] perplexity did. It's all this math on [63:40] um [63:40] >> this is Kyasa. [63:41] >> Yeah. [63:42] >> The amount of stone that can be removed [63:44] every day. [63:45] >> And it just it would have taken it is [63:46] even just the 250 people is a fourth of [63:51] the potential uh the number they tried [63:54] to destroy it with for three years. [63:58] And it has the same tools. I guess they [63:59] just said it had some sort of metal. [64:01] This says five and a half years. [64:02] >> They tried to destroy it for three [64:04] years. Just quit. [64:06] >> Really frustrating. Three years. [64:07] >> A thousand guys tried to destroy it for [64:10] 3 years. You imagine that. [64:13] >> That is crazy. [64:14] >> It was 100 and it's just exaggerated, [64:16] you know? They couldn't do anything. [64:18] >> That's really crazy. [64:19] >> Some you know how mad that king was. [64:21] He's like, just destroy it. [64:24] >> Imagine what a dick he must have been. [64:25] >> Oh, yeah. to want to destroy that. [64:27] That's the problem with kings. [64:29] >> It's the problem with kings. [64:30] >> Good lord, that's wild. [64:32] >> So, yeah, the c Cambodia is incredibly [64:36] mysterious and nobody talks about [64:38] Cambodia. [64:39] >> Would you like some coffee? [64:40] >> Um, sure. Thank you. You're [64:42] >> welcome. So, how did you get involved in [64:44] Cambodia? How did you uh What was the [64:47] first thing that you looked at? [64:48] >> I went there for the first time three [64:51] years ago. Um, it was a quick stopover. [64:53] We were getting ready to uh hike the [64:56] Sandong Cave in Vietnam, you know, the [64:58] largest cave in the world. [64:59] >> I saw that on 60 Minutes. [65:00] >> Yeah. So, we we had that trip planned [65:02] and I said, "Well, Cambodia is right [65:03] next door. Maybe we should just pop over [65:05] there for a week." So, we did. And, you [65:08] know, walking on these sites, it's the [65:10] same thing I was talking about earlier. [65:12] You I like to hire local guides just to [65:14] hear what's the story that that they're [65:17] telling you, what is the official [65:19] history? And the story that they told me [65:22] just it doesn't match what you see with [65:24] your own eyes. Right? So they say that [65:26] the earliest civilizations there built [65:28] in brick and then they built with stone. [65:31] Over time they developed the ability to [65:33] build with stone. But all of the brick [65:35] is on top of the stone. It's on top of [65:37] these massive pyramids, right? So it [65:39] doesn't it doesn't make sense that the [65:41] oldest stuff is at the top. So I started [65:44] sort of questioning the history of [65:46] Cambodia. I got into these LAR results [65:49] which are really fascinating. I mean [65:50] they discovered entire unknown cities in [65:54] Cambodia with LAR. So on top of the [65:57] Cooland Mountains which is the plateau [65:59] where they uh quarry all of the stone [66:02] for anchor wad all the sandstone there [66:04] was an entire massive city on top of [66:07] that plateau that they had no idea was [66:09] there. There were pyramids there were uh [66:13] 2,000 acre reservoirs. There were mound [66:16] fields, there were, you know, massive [66:19] causeways, and it was all just hidden [66:21] under the uh the trees, the jungle. So, [66:25] it's, you know, in 2012, sort of the cat [66:28] was out of the bag in Cambodia. And [66:30] what's interesting is it should have [66:32] made international headlines. You know, [66:34] these spiral embankments that are a mile [66:36] long on the south side of Ankorwatt, [66:38] nobody knows what they are. Nobody has a [66:41] good explanation for what they are. [66:42] archaeologists say, you know, maybe it [66:44] was a garden feature, maybe it was [66:48] fishing. And in my mind, you don't build [66:52] milelong earthn embankments in a shape [66:55] of a perfect spiral unless you have a [66:57] very specific reason for doing that. [67:00] >> What do you think that reason was? [67:02] >> I don't know. I, you know, I'm starting [67:04] to put together a theory about I I think [67:07] it all had to do with water. They were [67:10] channeling water down from the Cooland [67:12] Mountains, which is about 50 miles away [67:14] from Ankor Watt. They were channeling [67:16] water down, building 16 kilometer [67:19] diversion channels, taking the water way [67:22] out of the way, running them through [67:25] moundfields into these giant reservoirs. [67:28] All of these reservoirs have pyramids [67:30] connected to them. [67:32] And it's one system after another of [67:35] reservoirs with temples in the middle, [67:36] pyramids connected to the outside. It [67:39] feels like a massive industrial [67:42] undertaking and I've gone back and [67:44] forth. Does it have to do with energy? [67:47] Possibly. I personally think it had [67:50] something to do with [67:52] how they were treating the water. Like [67:54] if they could um if they could get it [67:58] structured maybe right so that it was [68:02] better for plants, better for people, [68:03] better for animals, better for [68:04] consciousness. There was a massive [68:07] undertaking happening there that um that [68:10] just isn't addressed at all by [68:11] archaeologists. Nobody's tying together [68:13] these different systems and saying, [68:15] "Gosh, that was a monumental [68:16] undertaking. I wonder what they were [68:18] doing that for. It's all just rice [68:20] farming is the official story." [68:22] >> Can you show me that lidar image again? [68:24] >> I'm looking for There's I'm looking for [68:26] more. I keep running into just the [68:27] scientific papers about it. [68:29] >> They have the LAR images locked away. [68:32] Yeah, they've done a bunch of studies on [68:34] this and there's some cool photos, but [68:35] I'm trying to find like, you know, [68:37] >> Can you go back to the ones that we were [68:38] just looking at though that she provided [68:40] because I want to see the um the the [68:43] patterns. [68:44] >> Yeah. [68:44] >> Yeah. That [68:45] >> Okay, that perfect. Like, so those [68:48] features are weird. [68:50] >> That's really weird. [68:51] >> They're huge. They're a mile long and [68:53] half a mile wide. Like that yellow [68:55] square. [68:56] >> And they're symmetrical. [68:57] >> And they're perfectly symmetrical. [69:00] And this isn't the only place in [69:01] Cambodia that has these. [69:03] >> And so we're probably looking at an [69:06] intensely sophisticated civilization. [69:10] >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, the the moat [69:13] you see dug in the middle of that [69:15] structure that was built built during [69:18] the Camar period, which is the [69:20] civilization that all of this is being [69:21] attributed to. They're the ones that dug [69:23] that through the middle. So, I don't [69:25] even think they knew that this was here. [69:28] It was just completely covered. [69:29] >> Yeah, they they just dug right through [69:31] the middle of it. [69:32] >> And so this is probably really really [69:34] old. And people have lived in that same [69:36] place. Look how crazy that looks. [69:40] >> That's almost crazy. [69:42] >> Every inch of ancient Cambodia is [69:44] engineered. [69:46] There's a there's a site called Karee. [69:48] It's about 200 miles northeast of [69:51] Ankorwat. [69:52] They discovered a 7 kilometer long [69:55] man-made dam that created a 2,000 acre [69:58] reservoir. [69:59] >> Look at that image. [70:00] >> That's hers. [70:01] >> Yeah. They they didn't know that this [70:03] was there. [70:04] >> That's crazy. [70:05] >> I was on a tour with Derek Olsen um last [70:09] last November and we actually took the [70:11] tour group out to the corner of [70:13] Ankorwatt and walked those mounds. And [70:16] what's interesting is when you're out [70:17] there, you actually can't tell that the [70:19] mounds are there until you're kind of on [70:21] top of them. And then you look around [70:22] and you're like, "Wow, I'm feet above [70:24] the rest of the landscape." And then you [70:26] kind of keep walking because these [70:27] things are 30 feet across. So you keep [70:29] walking and then suddenly you're at the [70:30] bottom of the landscape. So I don't [70:32] think that they knew it was there. [70:34] >> Wow. It's so big that without light art, [70:37] you're really not going to get an [70:38] understanding. [70:39] >> So what it is that picture um Yeah. [70:42] Yeah. So, there's a good example of the [70:44] jungle canopy being kind of stripped [70:45] away. This is what it looks like from [70:47] the air. [70:47] >> Wow. [70:48] >> Without light. [70:49] >> Wow. So, there's no way you would know. [70:50] >> No. [70:52] >> Wow. [70:53] >> Entire cities, 7 km long dams, huge [70:57] reservoirs. They didn't know about any [70:59] of this until LAR came out. [71:03] >> That's incredible. [71:04] >> Also, look how the trees are just [71:05] growing back in. [71:06] >> That's so dope. [71:07] >> Look how awesome those roots look. [71:09] >> Yeah, that's the Laura Croft Temple. [71:11] It's called Tapron. Oh, really? Yeah. [71:13] She filmed. Laura Croft was filmed at [71:15] this temple. [71:16] >> For real? For real? They actually let [71:18] her film there. That movie. Yeah. [71:19] >> Wow. [71:20] >> Pretty dope. [71:21] >> Yeah. [71:22] >> Tourists love it. [71:23] >> That tree just overcoming the building's [71:26] amazing. [71:27] >> They have their hands full in Cambodia [71:29] with preserving these temples because [71:30] the jungle's actively tearing it down. [71:33] >> Yeah. It looks like the jungle's trying [71:34] to consume it with that tree. [71:35] >> Absolutely. [71:36] >> Like eventually it will. Yep. [71:37] Eventually, if more trees grow like [71:39] that, it'll break down all the stone [71:40] underneath it. [71:42] >> The the structures I believe are older, [71:43] like the pyramids, they're a little bit [71:46] more impermeable to these kinds of [71:48] things. The newer temples, like the one [71:49] you see on the screen, they just get [71:51] ripped down. You know, it's it's a [71:54] little bit inferior construction. So, [71:56] it's newer. Obviously, I think the Camar [71:58] actually built those. And so, those just [72:00] get ripped down immediately by trees. [72:02] But the really old stuff, the the [72:04] pyramids, if you see photos when they [72:06] excavated it in like the 1920s, they [72:09] were fully intact. You [72:10] >> you were talking about the center of it [72:12] that it's different that it looks older. [72:14] Is there any clear images of like what [72:16] that looks like? [72:18] >> Um if you of the pyramids or of Ankor [72:21] Watt [72:21] >> Ankor Watt, [72:22] >> the center [72:24] >> I don't think I have photos in that [72:25] folder, but you can um if you [72:28] >> because you were talking about the [72:29] difference between the iconography. [72:31] Yeah, if you search the just the central [72:33] towers of Anchor Watt, you're probably [72:36] going to find images of that. The the [72:39] central it's so it's three layers that [72:41] get higher and higher as you get toward [72:43] the middle of Ankorwatt. And in the [72:46] middle of it, it's very it's just it's [72:49] carvings that just blow your mind. And [72:52] they're all um they're all spiritual in [72:55] nature, which is something you see all [72:57] over the world. So in India where I just [72:59] was it was the same thing. The older [73:01] structures it's spiritual imagery and [73:05] then as you move out to the newer [73:06] structures it's all war scenes you know [73:09] you can see the deevolution of human [73:11] consciousness. Yeah. So these are from [73:13] the center of anchor watt. It's deities [73:16] you know it's it's beautiful 3D [73:18] carvings. You can stick gum wrappers [73:21] through these. So they're they're fully [73:23] enclosed. You can stick a gum wrapper [73:25] behind these stones. [73:27] >> Whoa. [73:29] God, it's so pretty. [73:31] >> It's so beautiful. [73:34] >> And this is all this. So, it's that's so [73:36] interesting that [73:39] the people that probably built it first [73:42] had [73:43] >> no interest in war. [73:44] >> No interest in war or at least had a [73:46] very enlightened perspective. It does [73:49] support, you know, the idea of I know [73:52] you've talked about the Yuga cycles on [73:54] this show, but the idea of the of human [73:58] consciousness having reached its peak [73:59] 12,000 years ago and has just been [74:02] slowly devolving ever since. You can see [74:04] that in the imagery in some of these [74:06] temples, plain as day. So, yeah, there's [74:08] a lot of images of, you know, war scenes [74:11] on the outer [74:13] like all of the outer layers of Ankor [74:15] Wat, but in the middle it's totally [74:17] different. Same in India. [74:21] >> Now, does anybody have an an idea like [74:24] does anybody have a compelling theory as [74:26] to when these were made [74:29] that like is backed by any kind of [74:31] evidence or [74:32] >> No. No. I mean, you can look at carbon [74:36] dating um and you can poke holes in the [74:40] carbon dating all day long. So, they'll [74:43] carbonate wood samples. You know, these [74:45] are made of stone. You can't date stone. [74:47] Mhm. [74:47] >> There's there's reconstructions that [74:50] have happened on all these sites that [74:51] are brick and then there's going to be [74:53] there's wood um doorways that are put in [74:56] and they've carbonated the wood and the [74:58] wood in a lot of instances is coming [75:00] back older than the accepted date of the [75:02] temple construction in general which is [75:05] a little bit problematic. So like [75:06] there's a a pyramid called Bong which is [75:10] the oldest accepted pyramid in Cambodia. [75:13] That one's dated to um like 800 AD. the [75:17] wood samples in the repaired sections of [75:19] Bong are from the 600s. And they say, [75:23] well, that's generally the same, you [75:25] know, and and so you have to ask [75:26] yourself if they were reconstructing and [75:29] rebuilding these sites, say they were [75:30] doing that during the Cimera times, they [75:32] were using bricks and they were using [75:34] wood to repair these sites. They were [75:36] doing that in 600 AD. So, how old is the [75:40] pyramid itself that they, you know, they [75:42] came there and they repaired the [75:43] pyramid. How old is that core structure? [75:46] >> Yeah. And to assume that it's the same [75:47] age is crazy. [75:48] >> It's crazy. [75:49] >> Yeah. [75:50] >> And and it's a bit of a circular [75:51] argument because they they date a temple [75:53] based on an inscription and then they [75:55] look at other temples that don't have [75:56] inscriptions and they say, "Well, this [75:58] one looks a lot like this one." So they [75:59] they place it in the same time period. [76:02] So it just becomes this big circular [76:03] logic of all of it fits the story [76:05] neatly, you know, based on one [76:07] inscription. [76:08] >> That seems so silly. [76:10] >> Yeah, [76:11] >> it really it just doesn't make sense. It [76:12] seems much more likely that there's a [76:14] giant mystery. [76:15] >> Yes. [76:16] >> Yeah. And especially when you look at [76:17] the difference in the artwork and the [76:19] way it looks. Will you show me, Jamie? [76:21] >> Uh this they say they had this one took [76:23] 300,000 workers approximately 30 years [76:26] and they never finished. [76:27] >> Anchorwatt. [76:28] >> Yeah. [76:29] >> Yeah. [76:29] >> And this says they also started at [76:31] around 116 [76:32] 116 CE. [76:34] >> Yeah. [76:36] It doesn't make any sense. [76:40] So, I was I was recently in India a [76:43] couple weeks ago and I saw something [76:46] there that was the most impressive thing [76:49] I've seen with my own two two eyes. It's [76:51] called the Bahub Bali statue. I have [76:54] photos in the India folder. It's a [76:57] thousand tons. [76:58] So, it's as big as the biggest destroyed [77:02] structures or the biggest destroyed um [77:05] statues in Egypt, but it's still [77:07] standing. It's in India. It's on top of [77:10] a mountain. It's made of granite. That's [77:12] a person. [77:13] >> Whoa. [77:14] >> At the bottom of it. [77:17] >> Holy [ __ ] [77:22] >> It's made of white granite. There's, you [77:25] know, the jury's out on whether it was [77:28] moved there, built somewhere else and [77:30] moved there, or whether this was built [77:33] at the top of the hill from living [77:35] stone. But in my mind, this thing is [77:38] clearly machined. [77:40] It's absolutely perfect. Those ears are [77:44] five and a half ft long. [77:47] >> Wow. [77:49] Look at the lips and the fingernails and [77:51] everything. Look how crazy the precision [77:54] is. [77:55] >> It's perfect. [77:57] Look at the head. So, these are all [77:59] photos I took while I was there. It [78:01] stands, you know, it's 60 feet tall. [78:05] It's a thousand tons. So, it's the [78:08] largest standing statue on Earth [78:12] from ancient times. [78:14] >> And where's the stone supposedly coming [78:16] from? [78:16] >> Well, you know, this the story is and I [78:19] actually think I believe it. It the [78:21] whole mountain is granite. And so, in [78:24] order for this thing, so that's just it [78:26] poking out above the temple that's built [78:28] around it. [78:29] >> That's mad. [78:30] >> It's insane. that you know the story is [78:33] that basically it was [78:34] >> look at the leaves on his arm [78:36] >> that they built it out of living stone [78:39] that it's still connected to the [78:40] mountain and it kind of looks like that [78:42] when you walk around it. You can see [78:44] this rough stone at the bottom but it it [78:47] looks very different than the stone from [78:50] the mountain itself. So this is a white [78:52] granite. Yeah. So you can see how it [78:54] almost looks like living stone. [78:55] >> Mhm. And I can't imagine how you could [78:58] have erected that and moved it to the [79:00] top of this mountain. Um, so I [79:03] personally believe that it was it was [79:05] found, you know, it was built there and [79:07] a large stone that was there and they [79:09] just went in and chiseled the statue out [79:12] of it. [79:13] >> Yep. It represents Bahubali, which was [79:15] the it's a Jane statue. Um, and Bahubali [79:20] was a man who achieved enlightenment by [79:23] standing still for a full year. So the [79:26] ant in Cobra Hills at the bottom and [79:28] then the vines grew up around him. [79:31] >> Oh. [79:32] >> So he is the picture of enlightenment. [79:35] >> Whoa. [79:36] >> So just just look at that image. It [79:41] how was that built? I sat in front of [79:44] this thing for two hours [79:47] just entranced by it. And the beautiful [79:49] thing about this the temples in India is [79:52] they are all living temples. So, they're [79:54] actively being taken care of by the [79:56] community. They're active places of [79:57] worship. They're not off in the jungle [80:00] breaking down. They're being taken care [80:01] of. Um, and you know, this looks like it [80:04] was carved yesterday. [80:06] >> And what timeline is this attributed to? [80:09] >> About 980 AD. [80:11] >> And why do they think that? [80:12] >> Because of those very unsophisticated [80:15] inscriptions at the base of it. [80:17] >> Can I see those inscriptions? [80:20] >> Yeah. Right there. [80:21] >> Yeah. [80:22] >> Yeah. They're not so sophisticated. They [80:24] look really shitty. [80:25] >> So, they carved those around the base [80:26] and they said, "I built this." [80:28] >> Look how clunky those inscriptions are. [80:30] >> This paragraph here on this thing I [80:32] showed you about hangar watt. [80:34] >> Mhm. [80:35] >> Shines a little light onto that. [80:37] >> Yeah. [80:37] >> Yeah. It says like I'll let you read it. [80:40] >> Uh, building buildings of temples by the [80:42] Chimera kings was a means of [80:44] legitimizing their claim to political [80:45] office and also to lay claim to the [80:47] protection and powers of the gods. Hindu [80:49] temples are not a place of religious [80:50] congregation. instead their homes of the [80:52] god. In order for a king to lay claim to [80:55] his political office, he had to prove [80:57] that the gods did not support his [80:59] predecessors or his enemies. To this [81:01] end, the king had to build the grandest [81:03] temple palace for the gods, one that [81:05] proved to be more lavish than any [81:07] previous temples. In doing so, the king [81:09] could make his make visible his ability [81:11] to harness the energy and resources to [81:13] construct the temple and assert that his [81:15] temple was the only place that a god [81:17] would consider residing in on earth. [81:20] Interestingly, in Cambodia, all of the [81:23] pyramids were the first structures [81:26] claimed by the kings. [81:29] So, the first king built the first [81:30] pyramid, the second king built the [81:32] second pyramid. So, what I think they [81:34] were doing is they were going into this [81:35] landscape and they were finding these [81:37] incredibly sophisticated pyramids and [81:39] just like that paragraph suggests, they [81:41] said, "Well, this is the coolest thing I [81:43] can find around." and they wrote their [81:44] name on it, you know. And then once all [81:47] the pyramids were taken, then they [81:48] started claiming the berets. They [81:50] started claiming the really nice [81:51] temples. Like there's a temple called [81:54] Bantier S, which is a red sandstone [81:55] temple. It's beautiful. It's one of the [81:57] coolest places I've ever been. You know, [81:59] they they claimed all of these places [82:01] first. So all of the coolest stuff in [82:03] Cambodia is the oldest. And then once [82:06] everything was claimed, then they [82:08] started building new ones like that [82:10] Bayon temple that you saw with the faces [82:12] and the smaller stones. [82:14] Um, so that's what I think happened in [82:16] Cambodia. [82:17] >> Jamie, can you go back once again to [82:18] that giant statue and the inscriptions [82:21] on it? [82:23] Those inscriptions are weird cuz it's so [82:25] shitty. [82:26] >> Yeah. [82:26] >> Like look how bad the lines are, how [82:29] squiggly they are and broken up. [82:31] >> And there's another photo in there of [82:32] the rest of the inscriptions. They're [82:34] even worse. I mean, these are actually [82:35] very nice compared to the ones that are, [82:38] >> but not when you consider the grandness [82:40] of the actual statue itself. The statue [82:42] is so spectacular. [82:44] >> Yeah. I mean, look how they wrote it. [82:45] Just up any space that they could find, [82:47] they they wrote their name there, [82:49] >> but it looks entirely different than the [82:51] rest of the statue. [82:53] >> It looks super clunky. [82:54] >> Yeah. [82:56] >> Like, it really does. It It's It's a [82:58] stark contrast. [82:59] >> The toe on this statue is 3 feet long. [83:03] >> The ear is larger than most humans. [83:05] >> That's so crazy. Like, looking at it is [83:08] so It's so [83:08] >> Isn't it incredible? Imagine the time [83:11] that it would take to make something [83:13] like this with chisels. [83:14] >> Yes. And there was nothing else made [83:17] like it. [83:18] >> Not only that, like what are we talking [83:19] about in terms of metal urgy back then? [83:21] >> Oh, hammers and chisels. [83:23] >> Yeah. Well, did they even have iron? [83:24] >> Yeah, they did. [83:25] >> They they had iron. So, they had iron [83:26] chisels. [83:28] >> And this is again, was it 900? [83:30] >> 900 AD. [83:33] >> God. [83:33] >> And it's almost perfectly symmetrical. [83:36] >> And you think it looks machined? [83:38] >> I do. It looks very similar to the [83:40] Egyptian statues. I have some [83:41] sideby-side photos in the folder of [83:43] >> Can you focus on the neck, Jamie? Go [83:45] back to the neck because one of the [83:46] things that was crazy about when you saw [83:47] the image of the neck. Like look at the [83:49] lines. [83:50] >> I know. [83:50] >> Like what is that? [83:52] >> There's lines similar lines like that on [83:54] the large statues in Cambodia. And [83:56] there's similar lines like that on the [83:57] large statues in Egypt. [83:58] >> This only reminds me of Mount Rushmore. [84:00] Didn't we make that by hand or no? I [84:02] don't know. [84:02] >> I think they use dynamite. [84:04] >> I'm just kid that's the only thing in my [84:06] head I can think of. No, that's true. [84:08] Mount Rushmore is immense. [84:10] >> And this is white granite. So, this is [84:11] an extremely hard stone. [84:12] >> What was Mount Rushmore made? [84:13] >> I don't I don't have to look. I just was [84:15] thinking of it. It's like we made that, [84:17] you know, thousand years later. [84:18] >> That is true. That is true. [84:20] >> But we did that with machines. They had [84:21] machines back then. [84:22] >> Yeah. [84:23] >> I mean, they had jackhammers. They had [84:24] all kinds of stuff back then [84:25] >> when these were civilizations that were [84:27] at war, but somehow they found the time [84:29] to to carve this. [84:31] >> I just I'm I'm wondering what those [84:33] lines in the neck are supposed to [84:34] represent. But the statue is so [84:36] beautiful. [84:37] >> Isn't it amazing? [84:38] >> God, it's so incredible. [84:39] >> Maybe they were going to make something [84:40] and stopped. [84:41] >> You know how dope that would be if that [84:42] was in your backyard? I'd never get [84:44] anything done. [84:44] >> You can see this thing from 50 miles [84:45] away. [84:46] >> It's up on top of a mountain and it's at [84:50] the peak of the mountain. So from 50 [84:51] miles in each direction, you can see [84:53] this massive statue just staring [84:55] serenely. [84:56] >> So if you It's [84:58] >> It's a [85:00] Gowara Bali Bali statue of No. So [85:03] there's a couple of different ones. This [85:04] one's the best one. So that's the third [85:06] picture to the right. [85:06] >> The one in the middle. Yeah. [85:08] >> So yeah, that's a drone photo of it when [85:10] I was [85:13] crazy. [85:14] >> It's crazy. And it's the largest ancient [85:16] stat standing statue in the world and [85:18] very few people talk about this thing. [85:20] >> I've never even heard of it until today. [85:22] >> Yep. [85:23] >> Wow. So that was probably just a big ass [85:26] rock that was there and they chipped [85:28] away everything to make that. [85:30] >> I mean there's two there's two options. [85:32] One, maybe it was a big rock, but look [85:34] how much would have had to have been [85:36] reduced. And look at the stones to the [85:38] right. You can see how different they [85:40] look than the statue itself. [85:42] >> Do you think it's possible that stone [85:43] was moved there? [85:44] >> I think it's possible it was moved [85:45] there. Not with any technology we [85:47] recognize today. But I think it's [85:49] absolutely possible. It would have had [85:50] to have been taken to the top of this [85:52] mountain, which is like 650 ft high, and [85:55] stood up. [85:57] But even if it wasn't even if it wasn't [86:00] even it was a standalone boulder like [86:02] the ones you see below it [86:06] >> that's still an extraordinary feat [86:09] >> to carve that thing in almost perfect [86:11] symmetry in a way that looks very very [86:14] machined. [86:15] >> That is bananas. [86:17] >> Yeah. So you you climb the mountain. [86:19] It's like 650 steps. You have to do it [86:22] barefoot because it's a active temple. [86:25] On the way down it got real hot. [86:28] >> Oh, you can't even wear socks. [86:29] >> You can wear socks, but it's slippery. [86:31] >> Oh, so [86:32] >> gotta wear them grippy socks. [86:35] >> I didn't think of that. [86:36] >> Yeah. Well, like uh for Pilates. [86:41] >> Yeah. [86:42] >> Wow. [86:43] >> It's a It's an amazing place. And it's [86:46] still it the beautiful thing about it is [86:48] it's still just revered as a holy site. [86:50] So people the James take pilgrimages [86:52] there. Every 12 years they have these [86:55] major ceremonies where they uh they pour [86:58] milk and honey and things like that over [86:59] the top of it. They build a big [87:00] scaffolding. So they'll climb up to its [87:03] head and pour pour these libations over [87:06] the top of it. And it's it's just being [87:09] continuously worshiped. And when you sit [87:11] up there to get a little bit spiritual [87:13] for you, you feel different. You feel [87:16] like you're being healed. Like we had a [87:18] plane to catch and I didn't want to [87:20] leave. We sat in front of that. It was [87:22] my brother and I and we sat in front of [87:23] it for as many hours as we could before [87:26] we had to go catch our plane. [87:28] >> Wow. [87:29] Wow. [87:32] What was going on back then? That's [87:35] >> this is the real big question. Like [87:38] >> what was the height of sophisticated [87:41] civilization [87:43] 10,000 12,000 years ago? What was it [87:45] really like? And how much information [87:48] did we lose because of the flood? [87:50] >> Yeah. What what's interesting is if you [87:53] look at Jane mythology, so they talk [87:56] about these great half cycles that are [87:59] an incalculable number of years and [88:01] they're they're called turf and caras. [88:03] So they're like the kings the the um [88:06] they're not kings, they're like the [88:07] enlightened ones of the period. The [88:09] first turara was Bali was the son of [88:13] that uh enlightened being. He was [88:16] described as being over a mile tall, [88:20] fully enlightened, right? He was [88:22] described as millions of years old. And [88:25] these are their myths that go back to an [88:28] incalculable amount of time. And that's [88:29] just in this half cycle. So that they [88:31] just describe these major cycles of [88:34] time. And this the images that they're [88:36] building at the top of these mountains [88:38] are of these enlightened beings that are [88:40] part of these like ancient myths. [88:43] >> Geez. [88:47] you know, when you go into their ancient [88:51] uh scriptures and you you read about [88:53] things like vimmanas, like the flying [88:55] crafts and [88:57] >> you know, and [88:58] >> we were talking the other day about they [89:01] had some sort of a description that [89:03] seems to sound like a nuclear bomb [89:05] >> and you had to use it for very specific [89:07] reasons and you had to get authority to [89:09] use it and [89:10] >> Yeah. Even do you know what a Shiva [89:13] lingum is? No [89:15] >> um in my Cambodia f folder there's a [89:17] some photos of it. So in most of the [89:19] Indian temples there's a Shiva lingum [89:22] that's usually described as a uh you [89:26] know it's a it's a male component inside [89:28] a female component. So it's meant to [89:29] represent both sides of the polarities. [89:32] Um and they're they're at the entrance [89:34] of most of these temples and they're [89:36] small. They're maybe like two or three [89:37] feet long. But in Cambodia there are [89:40] giant Shiva lingums. There are ones that [89:43] are you know probably almost 20 feet [89:45] long and you can you can see those at [89:48] sites like Karee you can see them at the [89:50] top of Panbach mountain which is right [89:52] by one of the big berets. Um in India [89:54] the Shivalinghams are even bigger. If [89:57] you go to the ancient texts and they [89:59] talk about these things they describe [90:01] them as infinite pillars of light and [90:03] fire. [90:05] So are these Shivaingum these giant [90:07] Shivalingums [90:09] actually they're not? I don't believe [90:11] that they're what we say they are today. [90:13] I think that they were extremely [90:15] powerful. [90:18] Maybe a maybe a weapon. I don't think [90:20] so. Maybe an energy device. But if you [90:23] look at modernday stonework and then you [90:25] tie it into the old myths, you know, it [90:28] that's when it becomes really really [90:30] interesting to me. Yeah. So that [90:32] shaveingum that the the man is standing [90:34] on in the top right photo, that's at [90:36] Hampy in India. Um, these are always [90:40] surrounded by water. They're always in [90:42] roofless shrines. [90:44] This, you know, very megalithic temples. [90:46] The one in the bottom right, that's not [90:48] AI. That's a real photo of these [90:50] chivaling. [90:52] It's, that one's 40t high originally in [90:55] a roofless temple [90:58] by large bodies of water. Were these [91:00] actually I mean I think that these were [91:03] all something very different than what [91:05] we're being told today which is just you [91:07] know a a spiritual carving. [91:12] >> So you think this has something to do [91:14] with energy and that's why they're [91:15] surrounded by water? [91:17] >> Yeah. I mean in the ancient texts [91:18] they're described as an infinite [91:21] pillar of light and fire. That's what a [91:23] normal Shiva lingum looks like that you [91:25] see all over the temples [91:27] >> right which is just like a beautiful [91:28] fountain. a very small version of of [91:31] these monumental ones that you can find [91:33] in Cambodia and India. [91:36] >> Very phallic looking. [91:37] >> Yep. [91:38] >> Yes. [91:39] >> Yeah. Um so go back to the big ones. [91:45] >> An infinite source of light. [91:47] >> Infinite pillar of fire and light. [91:50] >> That's what they were described as. [91:51] >> Yes. [91:52] >> What the hell is that? [91:54] >> Like what [91:55] >> what were they doing with these things? [91:56] They always face north. They're always [91:58] in a roofless temple. They always have [92:00] major water features next to them. [92:02] >> Is that how they made power? Maybe if [92:03] powery [92:06] implying electricity or something [92:07] >> or something some kind of power. [92:09] >> The myth suggests that there was [92:11] something going on there. [92:12] >> Well, this is the the question that I [92:14] always have when you know we when we [92:16] think about technology we always think [92:19] about in the context of what we [92:21] understand currently. Yeah. And if you [92:23] think of human beings, the way we've [92:25] progressed to get to where we are now is [92:28] through internal combustion engines and [92:30] transistors and all these different [92:33] technologies that we're available that [92:35] that we that we have right now. We [92:38] there could have been completely [92:40] different direction that they went in [92:42] and achieved similar or more spectacular [92:46] sophistication in this different [92:48] direction. [92:48] >> Yes. And the idea that this is the only [92:50] way to go is kind of crazy. [92:52] >> Yeah. It doesn't have to be mechanical, [92:53] >> especially when this is a fairly sick [92:55] society in terms of our value system and [92:58] you know what we you know we're we're a [92:59] mess like objectively. [93:02] >> Yes. Mentally, physically we're as sick [93:04] as we've ever been. It's the only reason [93:06] our lifespan is increasing is because [93:07] we've overcome it with technology. [93:09] >> Yeah. [93:10] >> Right. Right. [93:10] >> We're as sick as we've ever been. As [93:12] unhappy as we've ever been. I think [93:14] that's part of the reason that [93:17] the powers that be don't want us talking [93:19] about golden ages, right? So if if you [93:23] can convince civilization that if you [93:26] can convince today's society that we are [93:28] the best we've ever been, life is as [93:30] good as it's ever been, [93:34] that's much more palatable than we are [93:35] as sick as we've ever been, we're as [93:37] unhappy as we've ever Do you think that [93:38] people are actively [93:40] trying to enforce that narrative because [93:42] of that or do you think they're just [93:44] reinforcing their own current beliefs? [93:48] >> I think a little of both. [93:50] >> I don't think they know. I I think [93:52] there's a lot of these people that are [93:54] these um [93:57] that are conventional archaeologists, [93:59] conventional timeline proponents. I [94:02] don't think they really study at all. I [94:05] don't think they do. I think they try to [94:06] discredit some things and they do it [94:08] very disingenuously. Like some of the [94:10] people that have gone after Graham [94:11] Hancock, they the things they say are [94:13] really kind of crazy, but I don't I [94:17] think they're doing it because they're [94:18] trying to reinforce their own closely [94:20] held beliefs and this gatekeeping of [94:23] information being the person that's the [94:24] expert. You know, this appeal to [94:27] expertise in an area where you have very [94:29] little data. Yeah. [94:30] >> It's like you really can't be an expert [94:31] in something that you, you know, [94:33] especially like timelines of stone. Like [94:36] how how do you know? You don't really [94:38] know, right? You don't know. Okay. So, [94:40] let's go from there. [94:41] >> We don't know. That's an okay thing to [94:43] say. Yeah. [94:43] >> Or I'm open to the possibilities. I [94:46] don't think they're trying to promote it [94:48] because they think that we want to [94:49] establish that, you know, human beings [94:52] today are sick and let's let's not pay [94:54] attention to an enlightened golden age [94:56] when people were different and they were [95:00] concentrating much more on the spiritual [95:01] aspects of human life and they they had [95:04] deities that were [95:06] >> spectacular and they had technology that [95:08] was above and beyond. I think I I think [95:10] they're just not willing to entertain [95:12] it, you know. You know, I think and I [95:13] again I think that's like what they say [95:16] about science that science moves on and [95:18] progresses one funeral at a time. [95:20] >> Yeah. [95:21] >> Yeah. I think that's the case with [95:23] archaeology as well. I think there's a [95:25] lot of these people that just they have [95:26] to go away. [95:27] >> And then the new people coming up, a lot [95:29] of them are watching YouTube, you know, [95:31] a lot of them are reading these papers. [95:33] A lot of them are looking at the work of [95:34] uh Fleo Beyond that's underneath the [95:37] pyramids and they're going, "Hey, [95:40] >> explain that." [95:41] >> Yeah. because you really can't, you [95:43] know, and they're try to dismiss it so [95:46] hard, but that technology is like if you [95:48] are trust the science like you got to [95:51] trust the science and that technology is [95:53] proven that not only that they use that [95:55] technology to accurately get the [95:58] dimensions of things like that particle [96:00] collider that's 1.2 kilometers into a [96:04] mountain. [96:04] >> Yeah. So if they have that and they can [96:07] use that on a known specific structure, [96:09] they know the dimensions of it and then [96:10] they get a reading that's the exact [96:12] dimensions of that specific structure. [96:13] It's because technology works. [96:15] >> Yeah. [96:15] >> Right. [96:16] >> But they don't want to even entertain it [96:18] because it's too crazy. Like if what [96:21] he's saying about what's underneath the [96:22] pyramids is correct, the whole [96:24] timeline's gone. Like everything's gone. [96:25] Like it's like, okay. [96:27] >> Yep. [96:28] >> We don't know [ __ ] [96:28] >> You know, he just basically announced [96:30] that he discovered a second sphinx. And [96:34] if you if you look at the layout of the [96:36] Giza plateau, it actually makes sense [96:38] that a second sphinx would be there. The [96:41] structures under the pyramid are very [96:43] difficult to prove out because you have [96:45] to dig or excavate under the pyramid to [96:47] do that. The second sphinx is if it's [96:50] there is simply buried by a pile of [96:53] sand. So that would be a very easy thing [96:55] to dig out and to prove yes, Filipo [96:58] Beyond is his technology is showing [97:01] something that's actually there. What [97:03] does the second sphinx look like in the [97:05] images? [97:06] >> He just had a a conference in Italy and [97:11] his translated version of his talk at [97:14] this conference just came out I think [97:16] yesterday or the day before and he shows [97:18] all of these all of these scans that [97:20] he's done from space. Um, and he he kind [97:24] of puts them together and shows the [97:26] shape of the structure that I'm seeing [97:28] under the ground looks a whole lot a [97:31] whole lot like the existing Sphinx. And [97:33] he actually used AI and ran [97:35] probabilities against his scans. And so [97:38] he went to Grock and Google Gemini and [97:41] all of the different AIs and and [97:42] effectively said, if you look at my [97:44] data, what do what do you think the odds [97:46] are of a sphinx being under the sand? [97:48] and AI came back in almost every [97:51] instance higher than 80% probability [97:53] that it is a sphinx based on the data [97:56] that he's showing. [97:58] >> Wow, [97:59] >> that would be incredible. [98:00] >> That seems easy. [98:00] >> And like I said, all you have to do is [98:03] so when they when they excavated the [98:05] tombs that are right next to where [98:07] Beyond believes the Sphinx is, they took [98:10] all of the sand from those and piled it [98:12] directly on top of the Sphinx, not [98:14] knowing it was there. And so you just [98:16] need to move this sand out of the way [98:19] and dig down and you can prove what he's [98:21] whether it's there or not. [98:23] >> Haven't people disputed that though? [98:25] Like aren't there some photos where that [98:27] mound didn't exist from like the 1930s [98:30] or something? [98:31] >> Yeah. So that's when they excavated [98:32] those tombs. They took that that sand [98:35] and they piled it there. So, initially [98:37] when Beyond talked about this, like on [98:39] Matt Bell's podcast, when he announced [98:41] this, people came out immediately and [98:43] said what he thinks he's seeing is [98:45] actually a modern pile of of soil. But [98:49] what he's showing is is below that in [98:52] his scans. So, I I think it's a big [98:55] opportunity for the people in Egypt to [98:58] go out, do a little mission, dig down, [99:01] see what's there, and you can prove, you [99:04] know. Yes. So the dream stella it all of [99:07] these a lot of these different [99:08] traditions talk about two sphinxes and [99:11] the geometry from the air you can see [99:14] where he believes he found the sphinx [99:16] you know geometrically it looks very [99:18] similar to where the first sphinx was [99:20] found in relation to the different [99:21] pyramids. [99:23] >> Whoa. [99:25] >> So yeah. So you know I think it's [99:26] >> go back to that [99:27] >> just just talking about it. [99:29] >> I know but they say it's false. Well, [99:30] >> I love how they say that viral claims of [99:33] second buried sphinx at Giza are false. [99:35] Archaeologists say it was [99:37] >> Well, how do you know if you didn't dig? [99:39] >> Yeah. [99:39] >> How do you know? [99:40] >> And again, [99:40] >> also the sphinx was buried. This is like [99:42] what's really important. Like when [99:45] Napoleon found it, it was burnt. Buried, [99:47] >> right? [99:47] >> So that was what year was that? [99:50] >> I don't know. [99:51] >> What year is Napoleon? 17s. [99:53] >> 1700s. [99:55] >> Was I could see the head though, right? [99:57] >> Yeah, that's it. Just the head. Yeah. So [100:00] if the entire sphinx Yeah. If the entire [100:02] sphinx is varied, I guess my point is [100:04] like [100:06] >> it's very hard to prove his claims of [100:08] what's under the pyramids because that's [100:10] a [100:10] >> look there's a picture of [100:11] >> that's a real excavation [100:12] >> in color. [100:15] >> So I mean you could easily see giving uh [100:18] a different geographic layout, you know, [100:21] different topographical layout that if [100:24] the whole body could be covered. Well, [100:26] if you're in a different place and the [100:28] sand comes in in a different way and it [100:29] piles up even higher. [100:30] >> It's on the west side of the Giza [100:32] Plateau, the current Sphinx is on the [100:34] east side and then you have the two [100:36] pyramids in the middle. [100:37] >> So, it is possible that sand could have [100:40] just covered that over thousands and [100:42] thousands of years. [100:43] >> Absolutely. And it would be easy to [100:45] prove that it's there [100:46] >> or that it's not [100:47] >> or that it's not [100:48] >> or that Beyond is full of [ __ ] [100:51] >> Yeah. [100:51] >> Or maybe he's not. [100:52] >> Right. He might not be. Well, they have [100:54] also found uh chambers inside the Sphinx [100:57] that they know are real. [100:58] >> Yeah. [100:58] >> So, cha chambers that are proven that [101:01] they know exist, this technology also [101:03] shows them. [101:04] >> And in Beyond these new scans, he also [101:06] shows cavities inside that sphinx [101:10] >> really [101:11] >> what he believes are. [101:12] >> Okay. So, it's it's really exciting and [101:15] I think, you know, if you think about [101:17] where this field is going in the next [101:20] five or 10 years and think about the [101:22] opportunities with AI and all of this [101:24] technology, look what was uncovered in [101:26] Cambodia with LAR. Look what's happening [101:28] in Egypt with scans from space. If you [101:31] take AI and you start to compile, you [101:34] know, I used to work for a mining [101:35] company and mining companies use lidar [101:38] or forestry companies or um [101:41] environmental companies. They all scan [101:43] the Earth, right, with LAR. If you could [101:47] use AI to compile all of the scans all [101:49] over the world, imagine what you could [101:52] start to identify that nobody's [101:54] identified before as an ancient [101:56] structures. Like, I think you could [101:58] fundamentally change this discussion in [102:00] the next 5 years just using AI and [102:02] different kinds of technology that we've [102:04] never been able to do in human history. [102:06] We can we can translate untransatable [102:08] texts. [102:10] >> Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen what's [102:12] really fascinating when they do these [102:13] scans of um scrolls from Pompei. Have [102:17] you seen that? [102:17] >> The Vuvius project. [102:20] >> Amazing. Like they're completely [102:22] wrapped. Yeah. [102:23] >> They're and they're covered with ash [102:25] like and there's like they're super [102:27] delicate, but they've been able to use [102:29] scans to actually read the text on those [102:31] scrolls. [102:31] >> It's amazing. [102:32] >> Incredible. [102:33] >> And there's an incredible amount of [102:35] ancient texts that have been [102:36] untransated. [102:38] What is hidden in there, [102:39] >> right? you know, not just the languages [102:41] that we don't know how to translate like [102:42] Rango Rango script in Easter Island, but [102:45] translatable script that nobody's paid [102:46] attention to, the thousands of Sanskrit [102:50] writings, what's hidden in there, [102:52] >> right? [102:52] >> You know, so I I think it's a really [102:54] exciting time to to do this work. And I [102:57] personally believe in the next 10 years [102:59] there are going to be extraordinary [103:01] discoveries that I think it's going to [103:03] be very hard to argue that we need to at [103:05] least reexamine our history. [103:07] >> Yeah, without a doubt. I I I think [103:09] that's already the case. I think there's [103:11] uh thanks to people like you and thanks [103:13] to people that are making these videos [103:14] where you could see this [103:17] just it's just so puzzling. I mean it it [103:20] doesn't make the timeline doesn't make [103:21] any sense. It also doesn't make any [103:23] sense in terms of like a linear timeline [103:25] of technology. It's like [103:26] >> what were they using? Like how did they [103:28] move this stuff? Like [103:30] >> and why [103:31] >> why Yeah. Why [103:32] >> why were they building these things? Why [103:34] were they building them where they were [103:36] building them? [103:36] >> Yeah. You know, if you think of the [103:38] earth like a a human body, were these [103:41] sites built on the acupuncture points of [103:44] earth? They were built in highly [103:46] energetic places. When you go to these [103:48] sites, you feel different. People [103:50] describe spontaneous healings. I have [103:53] different dreams when I visit these [103:55] ancient sites. You know, I I do a lot of [103:58] meditations. And when you meditate on [104:00] top of a pyramid in Cambodia, you drop [104:03] in immediately, you know. So you are as [104:06] a human, you're resonating with these [104:08] sites in a way that you don't when [104:10] you're not at them. And so I believe [104:12] personally that they were building these [104:14] sites in these places for a reason. [104:17] >> Well, it makes sense. Uh, and the idea [104:20] that different places don't have [104:22] different energy is just one of those [104:24] things that people like to say that [104:25] we've got a a clear understanding of [104:29] what energy is and what you know what [104:33] what is different about these different [104:35] places. It's just different geology. [104:36] It's just there's nothing special. [104:38] There's nothing but we don't really know [104:40] that. There's so many things that we [104:41] can't measure and we definitely don't [104:42] understand why certain places have a [104:44] different effect on human beings. I [104:47] mean, just wilderness has a different [104:48] effect on human beings. It's it's, you [104:50] know, like forest bathing, it's a real [104:52] thing. Like hugging trees actually is [104:54] good for you. Like grounding, walking [104:57] barefoot on ground is actually good for [104:59] you. And we don't truly understand why. [105:02] And there's something that in some way [105:06] that we're connected to the earth that [105:08] we don't quite understand. [105:10] >> Yep. Right after I left my corporate [105:12] life, I did a basically like a [105:15] wilderness quest. So, picture of like a [105:17] Native American vision quest where I [105:20] spent four days on the side of a [105:22] mountain with no food, no tent, nothing, [105:26] just a journal and myself for four days [105:28] with no food. [105:30] >> Why did you do that? [105:30] >> It was it was it was because I needed to [105:34] heal from the corporate life that I had [105:36] lived. that I needed to recover. And [105:38] >> how bad are jobs? [105:41] >> How bad are jobs that it's better to [105:43] have no food and be sitting on a [105:44] mountain for 4 days to get your head [105:46] straight? [105:46] >> What I'll say about that experience is I [105:49] think that humans don't let themselves [105:52] get completely silent any longer. So [105:55] what you're saying about nature healing [105:56] you, you know, over the course of three [105:58] days, your body gets very weak and the [106:01] voices get a lot quieter and suddenly [106:04] really the only thing you hear is your [106:07] soul or God or whatever word you have [106:10] for it and you watch the stars pass at [106:12] night and you're sitting there all day [106:14] and it's it was one of the most special [106:17] experiences I've ever had. [106:19] >> Did you bring water? What did you do? [106:21] You have basically like you have 3 lers [106:25] of water per day that you hike into this [106:27] area and you just sit with the water and [106:29] that's it. Um the last night of it was [106:32] really cool because what you're supposed [106:34] to do it's it's it's meant to be a a [106:37] healing and kind of rebirth, right? So [106:39] the last night you you set up rocks in a [106:42] circle and you at sunset you enter the [106:44] middle of the circle and you you're [106:47] keeping an all night vigil. So, you're [106:48] watching you literally watch the [106:50] constellations move all night and you're [106:54] supposed to try I I succeeded but barely [106:58] to stay awake until the sun comes up. [107:00] And so, the idea is that you're entering [107:02] as one person and you're leaving the [107:04] next morning as another person. And so, [107:06] the the Native Americans with their [107:08] vision quests, they're doing it right. I [107:11] think that we have completely lost uh [107:14] our connection and ability to tune into [107:16] ourselves and to tune into the earth and [107:18] you know quests like that are really [107:20] amazing. [107:21] >> Wow. And it's being blunted every day by [107:25] phones and TVs screens and [107:28] >> Yeah. [107:28] >> Yeah. [107:29] >> flipping through Tik Tok, [107:30] >> you know, it's it's different than [107:32] sitting with yourself [107:34] >> in complete silence. [107:35] >> What a complete polar opposite to [107:37] corporate life. [107:37] >> Yes. [107:38] >> Yeah. [107:38] >> Thank God. [107:42] Corporate life has its place, but Yeah. [107:44] >> Well, has its place. I'm on an iPhone. [107:46] >> Yeah. [107:46] >> Somebody's got to make a laptop. [107:47] >> Totally. And people need to make a [107:49] living, right? [107:50] >> Yeah. It's just there's other ways. [107:55] >> Not for everybody. I mean, we need [107:56] people to not get it so that they keep [107:58] working so we have stuff. [108:00] >> Yep. Exactly. Or, you know, at least to [108:02] spend a portion of their life doing [108:04] that. And then [108:05] >> when you think about ancient [108:06] civilizations and how much time they [108:08] spent in ritual and how how important [108:11] these things were to them and how they [108:14] had this very strange connection like [108:17] all a lot of these ancient structures [108:18] particularly like the Aztec structures [108:20] and Egyptian structures they mirror the [108:22] constellations. [108:23] >> Mhm. [108:23] >> And so they they had a a understanding [108:26] of their place in this universe. They [108:29] they knew how to make these temples so [108:31] that the pillars, the summer solstice, [108:33] the sun would part through the middle of [108:34] the pillars and light these corridors [108:36] like that. That's incredible [108:38] sophistication. That's incredible [108:40] planning. This understanding of when the [108:43] sun's coming up exactly at a specific [108:45] time of the year was the longest day of [108:47] the year to the knowledge that the sun's [108:49] moving in the sky, but it'll be back on [108:51] this day and this is where it's got to [108:53] be. So, this is where we have to build. [108:55] >> And they encoded that in stone [108:56] >> and they didn't miss. They didn't get it [108:58] off by a half a foot or 6 in. No, it's [109:01] like right there. Sun in the center, [109:03] right up the middle. Like, how did you [109:05] do that? [109:06] >> Yeah. [109:07] >> How did you do that? You did that while [109:08] you were hunter gathering. Like, what [109:10] are you talking about? This is bananas. [109:12] >> In the spring equinox, the sun rises [109:14] exactly over the center tower of [109:16] Ankorwatt. [109:17] >> Like, perfect. [109:20] >> They knew. They knew exactly what was [109:22] happening and they built their [109:23] structures around it. [109:25] >> God. Which gets back to the why, right? [109:27] Like, yes, how did they build this? It's [109:29] mindblowing, but why did they build it? [109:32] Why did they build it the way that they [109:34] did? Why did they build it where they [109:35] did? Look at that. [109:36] >> Isn't that incredible? [109:37] >> That is bananas. [109:38] >> Look at all the people. Just straight. [109:41] >> Wow. [109:43] >> Straight up the east side. [109:46] >> What are the odds? [109:48] I mean, the odds are pretty pretty small [109:51] that you would nail it like that. [109:55] You definitely get fired if you if you [109:57] were off a little bit. [109:58] >> That is crazy. It's so crazy. It's so [110:01] crazy. [110:02] >> Were really in tune. [110:05] >> What was it like? I mean, how much time [110:06] do you spend thinking about what society [110:08] must have been like then? Like [110:11] >> a lot almost every day. I wonder what [110:14] humans are like if we're not on this [110:17] path that we're on, you know, with uh [110:20] propaganda and gaslighting and [110:22] technology and being inundated with just [110:25] nonsense all the time and wrapped up in [110:29] materialism and brands and [ __ ] and [110:33] popularity. [110:34] >> I think we're in touch with each other. [110:36] I think we're in touch with the earth. I [110:38] think we have a deep relationship with [110:40] God. It's all of the things that people [110:43] are still searching for today. We just [110:45] feel fully disconnected from it. And I [110:47] think that's why these ancient sites are [110:49] so appealing to people. [110:51] >> You know, why people travel all over the [110:52] world to see them. It it creates a sense [110:55] of wonder and awe in us that very few [110:57] other things do. [110:58] >> Yeah. [110:59] >> You know, [111:00] >> um I'm really fascinated by the Mayan [111:04] civilization and the timeline of them [111:07] because that's another one that's really [111:08] weird. [111:09] >> Yeah. Like the the Mayan structures are [111:11] so strange. I've that's the only place [111:13] that I've been. The only ancient place [111:15] I've been is Chichinita. And when you're [111:18] walking around, you just go, "What were [111:20] these people like?" Like, "What was it [111:23] like living here?" [111:24] >> Were you there when you could still [111:25] climb it? [111:26] >> Yes. Me, too. [111:27] >> Yeah. [111:27] >> Yeah. We went in the 90s. [111:29] >> Yeah. [111:30] >> No, maybe early 2000s. Yeah. Early [111:31] 2000s. And uh it was stunning. It's [111:35] weird. It feels weird. There's a lot of [111:38] ancient stuff in Mexico. You know, the [111:40] Memech things are really mysterious. The [111:42] Mayan structures, their myths, they're, [111:45] you know, it's it's old in southern [111:47] Mexico. [111:48] >> Well, how about the Aztec stuff where [111:50] they didn't even make those temples. [111:52] That's what I didn't know. I didn't know [111:53] that until fairly recently. [111:54] >> I mean, it's no different than the [111:55] Chimera in Cambodia. [111:57] >> Yeah. But at least they said it. [111:58] >> Yeah. [111:59] >> They said these are the place where the [112:00] gods were born. That's how they [112:01] described it. So, we we attribute those [112:04] temples to the Aztecs. [112:05] >> Yeah. Yeah, [112:05] >> but they they were like, "Nope, they [112:07] were already here." [112:07] >> Yep. [112:08] >> Okay. Well, but then who? [112:09] >> The Inca say the same thing in Peru. We [112:12] didn't build these. These were already [112:15] here. [112:16] But we don't listen to them. [112:19] >> We're like, "You guys don't know what [112:20] you're talking about. People wrote [112:22] myths. Those are just stories. [112:23] >> Silly people." [112:24] >> Yeah. Um, one of the things we talked [112:26] about the other day was that there's a [112:28] bunch of different cultures that have um [112:32] a timeline of uh the kings where they [112:36] they ruled for thousands and thousands [112:39] of years. Yeah. Like one king ruled for [112:41] thousands of years and then you have the [112:42] flood and then you have the ages of [112:45] these people drops off pretty radically [112:47] and then becomes a normal age like human [112:50] beings. [112:50] >> Yeah. And we look at that and we go, [112:52] "Oh, that well that's just myth back [112:55] then." Yeah. Until it's history. And [112:57] it's the same texts like in the same [113:00] depictions of these kings. They have [113:03] accepted dates. You know, the 5,000 year [113:05] ago, 4,000 year ago kings. Well, yeah, [113:08] that guy was real. [113:09] >> Yeah. [113:09] >> But these other ones that lived for 3600 [113:12] years, no, that's not real. [113:14] >> Same with the Janes. Like I was talking [113:15] about earlier, there are 24 tthankaras. [113:18] All 24 have lived according to the [113:20] James, but archaeology has only [113:22] recognized the last two of them because [113:25] those were the only, you know, the [113:26] timelines and their lifespans that kind [113:29] of fits. But when you talk about the way [113:30] back days, that's just myth. [113:32] >> What do they say their timelines were? [113:35] >> Oh, that I mean millions of years. [113:39] And the, you know, the first earth car [113:41] was over a mile tall. [113:42] >> Oh my god. [113:43] >> You know, so that it's just but it's [113:45] consistent across the world. The James [113:48] talk about it, the Hindus, the [113:49] Egyptians, the Sumerianss, all the [113:51] Bible, all of them talk about very long [113:54] lifespans, giant statures, you know. Is [113:57] it is it coincidence that all of our [114:00] ancient myths talk about the same [114:01] things, [114:02] >> right? [114:02] >> Or might it have been true? [114:04] >> Yeah. Well, then there's the book of [114:06] Enoch, [114:08] which is um Anna Paulina Luna turned me [114:11] on to that. She's like, "You got to read [114:12] that." And I I I've read it twice now. [114:15] I'm like, this is the most bizarre [114:17] depiction of a human story. [114:21] >> Yep. [114:21] >> The watchers came down and mated with [114:24] the daughters of men and created the [114:26] Nephilim. Yep. [114:27] >> Who were giants who destroyed and [114:28] consumed everything [114:30] >> and were wiped out by the flood. [114:33] >> What? [114:33] >> And the the accepted biblical texts [114:36] barely hint at that. They still talk [114:38] about it. Yes. But the extra biblical [114:41] cannon talks it the stories are much [114:43] more like the book of Enoch. Yeah. You [114:46] know it there's a reason I think that [114:48] those were excluded from the Bible. [114:49] >> Well, they were excluded by rabbis. [114:51] >> I know [114:52] >> because they didn't jive with the Torah, [114:54] which is hilarious. Like you you get to [114:57] disco and they all were in the same uh [115:00] caves in Kuman. Like the version of uh [115:03] the book of Enoch was in the same as the [115:05] book of Isaiah. They were all in the [115:07] same scrolls. [115:09] >> Yeah. I [115:09] >> was just like, "What?" [115:11] >> Yep. [115:12] >> How do you guys leave this out? Like, [115:13] you imagine if they taught that at [115:15] church on Sunday. You'd be like, "What [115:17] are you saying?" [115:19] >> Yeah. You know, David and Goliath, [115:21] >> the Watchers. [115:22] >> It I think it's interesting that you can [115:24] totally accept that David and Goliath is [115:27] a real story. And Goliath was a giant in [115:29] the Bible. [115:30] >> Yeah. Right. [115:31] >> How How tall was he supposed to be, [115:32] though? Couldn't he be like a really big [115:33] guy from Iceland? [115:34] >> I think he was described They described [115:37] the way that the Hebrews described it is [115:39] that they made them feel like [115:40] grasshoppers. [115:42] >> The giants, the Nephilim made them feel, [115:45] you know, they were like, "We are as if [115:46] we are grasshoppers." So, I think that [115:48] they were meant to be very, very large. [115:52] >> Um, it would be really nice if they [115:54] found a Bigfoot somewhere. [115:55] >> Oh my. I love Bigfoot. [115:58] >> Not a Bigfoot, not the animal. I mean, [116:00] like a giant foot, like a sto Exactly. [116:04] Yeah. David and Goliath. So he was [116:07] supposed to be 10 feet tall. Often [116:08] calculated as roughly nine to 10 feet [116:10] tall. The thing about that is like you [116:13] know people are full of [ __ ] and they [116:15] can make up a story. The guy was so big [116:17] he was 10 feet tall. But meanwhile he [116:19] could have been like the mountain from [116:20] Game of Thrones like a real person. Yep. [116:23] >> Maybe 6 and 1/2 ft tall. [116:24] >> Any of our basketball players today. [116:26] >> Who says he was 6 and 1/2 ft tall? [116:27] Scholars. [116:28] >> The Dead Sea Scrolls. [116:29] >> The Dead Sea Scrolls. So six cubits in a [116:32] span often calculated as roughly 9 to 10 [116:34] feet tall in the ancient Hebrew text. [116:37] Greek and Dead Sea Scrolls uh texts say [116:39] four cubits in a span. So that's only 6 [116:42] and 1 half to 7 and 1/2 ft tall [116:43] depending on how the cubit was defined. [116:46] So that makes sense. So who knows? [116:49] >> 9 to 10 is pretty big. [116:50] >> Yeah, 910 is big. But if the Dead Sea [116:52] Scrolls are correct, then it's only 6 [116:54] and 1/2 ft. So he's a basketball player. [116:55] >> Yeah. [116:56] >> You know, that's [116:57] >> not even a really tall one. [116:58] >> Yeah. You know, there's Who's the [117:00] biggest basketball player now? How tall [117:02] are they? [117:04] >> There's there's a kid that's like 14 [117:06] that's almost 8 feet tall. [117:07] >> What? I don't know if it's going to make [117:09] it to the NBA or anything, but [117:12] >> just plop it in. [117:13] >> Oh my god, that's so crazy. That's so [117:16] big. So, you got to imagine [117:21] >> But you got to imagine with technology. [117:22] So, they're working right now on life [117:24] extension technology and they've already [117:26] figured out a way to reverse the age of [117:28] skin cells and they're on their path to [117:30] being able to stop human aging and maybe [117:33] potentially even reverse it. [117:34] >> If that technology becomes implemented, [117:36] >> this kid's 79 now. [117:38] >> Jeez, [117:39] >> 20 years old, though. He's actually [117:40] playing basketball, but [117:41] >> jeez, huge. [117:43] >> So, he's bigger than Goliath by a lot. [117:45] He Goliath would talk [ __ ] about him, [117:48] write a story about he got his ass [117:50] kicked by a basketball player. Uh but if [117:53] you can imagine this technology being [117:55] implemented in the future and then being [117:57] refined and then getting to a point [117:58] where they really have it mastered, you [118:00] know, like like we have with so many [118:03] medical interventions that we have [118:04] today. You you could get to a point [118:06] where someone could live to a thousand [118:07] years or several thousand years. And if [118:09] you're the king, of course you're going [118:11] to want that technology. And you're also [118:13] going to be very protected. So you're [118:15] you don't have to worry about dying in [118:16] other ways unless somebody usurps you. [118:19] >> Yeah. So you can like the Samrian kings [118:22] list and some of these like the Zeppy [118:24] list. You look at that and you go what [118:26] what are they saying? Like why why was [118:28] this guy 6,000 years old? How did he how [118:31] did he rule the country for 30,000 [118:33] years? That sounds insane. Yeah. [118:34] >> But it doesn't sound insane if they [118:35] master biological aging, which is not [118:38] impossible. [118:40] >> It's not impossible. Not only is it not [118:41] impossible, they're actively working on [118:44] technology that's going to allow that to [118:46] happen in our lifetime. You think it's [118:48] going to happen in our lives? [118:49] >> 100%. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. [118:52] >> Human quest for immortality. [118:54] >> Well, I don't think that's going to [118:55] happen, but I think you're going to [118:56] extend life. You're going to extend [118:58] biological life in a significant manner. [119:00] And maybe [119:02] for the sake of looking at things [119:04] through rosecolored glasses. Maybe [119:06] that's a good thing. Yes. [119:07] >> Because one of the things about humans [119:08] is we barely have enough time to figure [119:11] out how much of life is [ __ ] [119:15] >> Yeah. while you're wrapped up in it. And [119:17] then if you have responsibilities, you [119:19] get married, you have a family, you have [119:21] a mortgage, you have a bunch of there's [119:22] no time to recognize how fruitless a lot [119:26] of your thinking and behavior and how [119:28] stupid a lot of the things that people [119:30] concentrate on. But as you get older and [119:31] older, you get better at it. I'm way [119:33] better at it now than I was 20 years [119:34] ago. Way better. Way better at life. I [119:38] would imagine I'm going to be better [119:39] still 20 years from now, unless I'm [119:41] decrepit. So 20 years from now, I could [119:43] be all worn out and like, you know, my [119:45] back hurts and get off my lawn. You [119:48] know, you get stupid. [119:49] >> Not in my backyard, [119:50] >> right? You get goofy. You get goofy [119:52] because you get old and sad and, you [119:54] know, you're not healthy anymore. But if [119:56] you were 80 years old and healthy like a [119:59] healthy 30-year-old, [120:00] >> you're wise at that point. [120:01] >> Yeah. Well, then you have immense amount [120:03] of life experience. [120:04] >> Totally. [120:05] >> And then if you live under 100 years on [120:08] top of that, you Oh my god, I was so [120:09] stupid when I was 80. Back when I was [120:11] 80, I thought I had it nailed. But now [120:13] that I'm 180, now I see. [120:15] >> The question is, if your lifespan is [120:17] expected to be 200 years, then do you [120:19] work until you're 160? So, does it just [120:22] expand the stages that we're all going [120:24] through now and you just work longer? [120:26] >> Well, it depends on what work is. So, if [120:28] work is your love, why not, right? Like, [120:31] if Yeah, it really depends on what work [120:33] is. So, if it's hard labor, that doesn't [120:35] sound fun. I don't want to be an 800y [120:36] old roofer. That seems like, geez, my [120:39] hands would be so lived to,200 years, [120:41] you still got a long retirement. [120:44] >> Well, I think retirement's out the [120:45] window if you can stay healthy. Cuz the [120:47] whole idea of retirement is like, why [120:48] are we retiring? We're retiring because [120:50] we hate our jobs. [120:51] >> Okay. Well, maybe if you loved your job, [120:53] you wouldn't want to retire. [120:54] >> Totally. [120:55] >> You know, George Carlin died on the [120:56] road. He died in a hotel room, I think, [120:58] in Las Vegas. [120:59] >> You know, and you hear lots of stories [121:01] of people working their entire careers, [121:03] retiring, and then promptly dying. [121:05] >> Oh, yeah. [121:06] >> Within six months, they have a heart [121:08] attack and they die. And they had all [121:09] these big plans and they just never see [121:11] them through. [121:12] >> Yeah. And they just feel like the end is [121:14] near and that that the the creeping [121:16] doom, the existential angst in the back [121:18] of your head is probably contributing to [121:20] a lot of your decay. [121:21] >> Yeah. [121:21] >> Because you've kind of like checked out. [121:23] You know, that happens a lot with [121:24] spouses. You know, the husband dies and [121:27] the wife dies shortly thereafter. My [121:28] grandparents, my my grandmother died and [121:30] my grandfather died within a year. [121:32] >> Yeah. Yep. [121:34] >> That's what happens when the woman dies [121:35] first. [121:36] >> Yeah. [121:36] >> Yeah. It's so much harder for the man to [121:39] live without her. [121:40] >> Is it? Is it? [121:41] >> Yeah, I think so. [121:42] >> Why is that? [121:43] >> I mean, if you think of the all the old [121:44] widows, you know, the women live my [121:48] grandpa died 15 years ago and my [121:50] grandma's 93. [121:51] >> She's still living. She's still going. [121:53] >> That's interesting. [121:54] >> You know, she knew how to cook for [121:55] herself and clean and things like that. [121:57] But had it been reversed, I'm not sure [121:59] that he would have lived that long. [122:01] >> Maybe. [122:02] >> So, [122:03] >> depends on the relationship. So, I've [122:05] see a lot of relationships with older [122:07] couples where the woman becomes like the [122:09] caretaker. [122:10] >> Yeah. [122:11] >> I think dudes get dumber quicker when [122:13] they get older. So, [122:17] >> no comment. [122:17] >> They just worn out by the time they hit [122:19] 80. You know, a lot of times the wife [122:22] tells them like, "Okay, you got you're [122:23] right. You're right." And then they just [122:24] like fall into that role where the wife [122:26] is in charge of everything. [122:28] >> Have you seen the stats of um the the [122:31] expected lifespan of a man that's [122:33] married versus not married? No, [122:35] >> I Jamie, I don't know these off the top [122:36] of my head, but they've done studies [122:38] that talk about basically the lifespan [122:41] extension that happens with men when [122:42] they have a woman in their life. [122:44] >> Is it longer? [122:45] >> Yes. [122:45] >> Interesting. [122:46] >> Yeah. [122:46] >> Well, then when there's no woman, then [122:48] it's filled with cocaine and hookers. [122:50] So, that takes years off your life [122:51] >> and lots of burgers and beer, you know, [122:54] you're not eating a salad, [122:56] >> right? Well, it's it's loneliness is [122:58] worse than cigarette smoking. They found [122:59] that. [123:00] >> Totally. [123:00] >> Yeah. Loneliness is like one of the [123:02] worst things that can happen to people. [123:03] Yep. And it, you know, really the term [123:06] spirituality is is it's kind of tainted [123:09] in a lot of ways because there's a lot [123:11] of goofy people that use that. Like I'm [123:13] not religious, but I'm spiritual. Like [123:15] it's [123:16] >> the term unfortunately has like a stink [123:18] to it. [123:18] >> Yeah. [123:19] >> But there is a connection that we have [123:22] to each other that's not as simple as we [123:27] would like to think. Like we need each [123:29] other. We need each other in very [123:31] profound ways. And it's it's actually [123:34] important for our survival. [123:36] >> Yeah. [123:36] >> And what that's why the worst thing they [123:38] could do to you in prison is put you in [123:39] solitary confinement. [123:40] >> We are a pack animal. [123:41] >> Yeah. Yeah. We're we're supposed to be [123:44] connected to each other [123:45] >> and it's not a preference thing. That's [123:47] why when someone says like, "I'm a [123:48] loner." I'm like, "Okay, well either [123:50] you're the only one that's like that or [123:52] you're full of [ __ ] or you like you want [123:54] to pretend you're mysterious. You like [123:55] to be alone." Like we like we attribute [123:57] strength to that. Like oh, he doesn't [123:58] need anybody. And it's so hard now to to [124:01] build your tribe. You no longer live [124:03] where your grandparents and your parents [124:04] lived. You are out there on your own. [124:07] You're spending hours on your phone. You [124:10] have a community that you feel like is a [124:12] community, but it's not. You don't have [124:14] you don't have a tribe anymore. [124:16] >> Yeah. And then people find their own [124:17] tribes and usually they're political. [124:19] >> Yeah. [124:20] >> Yeah. They get ideological or religious, [124:22] you know. [124:23] >> You want to fit in. [124:24] >> Yeah. [124:25] >> Yeah. [124:25] >> Yeah. And that's what we do. I mean, [124:26] that's why when you see so many people [124:29] that are religious devotees, like, why [124:30] are why are they willing to do that? Why [124:32] are they willing to wear those clothes? [124:33] Why are they willing to act that way? [124:34] Well, it's because everyone's doing it [124:36] and you want to be a part of it. And [124:37] there's like some some good feeling of [124:39] community to where everyone's kneeling [124:41] at the same time and saying the same [124:43] things. There's something to that that [124:45] like is very profound totally with human [124:47] beings. And if it's directed in the [124:49] wrong way, it could be incredibly [124:51] destructive. But if it's directed in the [124:53] right way, if it w it's if it's real [124:57] ceremony and real worship and real [125:01] openness to the cosmos and to to God and [125:04] to spirituality, like real true [125:07] understanding, real connection with the [125:09] universe, then it's probably a lot [125:12] better than the way we're doing it. [125:14] >> 10,000%. I think that's why the [125:17] psychedelics are coming back in such a [125:19] huge way. It's people It's people [125:21] accessing that part of themselves that [125:23] have been shut down their whole lives. [125:25] >> Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up [125:26] because I think that's the missing [125:27] element and I think that's what probably [125:28] was very prevalent in the ancient times. [125:31] And um this is the work of Brian Mur [125:33] Rescue. I'm sure you do you know about [125:35] his stuff? The immortality key. Did you [125:37] read that book? [125:38] >> Yes, I did. [125:39] >> So he I actually got super fortunate [125:41] that um my family and I were in Greece [125:44] when he was going to be in Greece. And [125:46] so I got a tour of Illusis with him. He [125:49] took me there [125:50] >> and he showed me all the different [125:51] places and it feels so strange. It feels [125:54] so strange. Like you're you're standing [125:57] in the place where these people had [125:59] these Illusinian mystery ceremonies and [126:02] it just feels weird. Like my family got [126:05] a little weirded out cuz I was like [126:07] holding on to I was like standing. [126:08] >> Did it feel good? [126:09] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely good. [126:12] >> Like like a connection. [126:13] >> It felt [ __ ] strange. Like I was [126:15] holding on. I was I had my hand on this [126:16] wall and my daughter was like, "Are you [126:18] okay?" I'm like, "I'm fine. I'm fine. [126:19] I'm fine. I'm just I don't want to talk [126:20] right now. I just want to like [126:21] >> Yeah. [126:22] >> sit here and try to soak this in. [126:23] >> Like, is daddy upset? Like, no. No, no, [126:25] no. Not upset. No. Like, cuz your dad's [126:28] just like holding a rock. [126:30] >> It's a little destabilizing for a [126:32] child." [126:32] >> I know. Like, is daddy okay? [126:35] They thought it was cool, too. But, you [126:37] know, it's hard when you're 13 or 12. [126:40] It's hard to like go, "Oh my god, what a [126:43] special place." They're like, "Yep, old [126:45] old stuff. What are we eating?" [126:47] >> Rocks. Cool. Yeah. [126:49] >> Like we took him to the uh museum in [126:51] Athens and one of my daughters loves [126:54] museums. The other ones like couldn't be [126:56] bothered. She was like bored by it all. [126:58] But I was like this is crazy. Like these [127:00] people lived 2,000 years ago and they [127:03] made this stuff. Like you know how nuts [127:04] this is? Like how did they do this? Like [127:06] what were they doing? Like what was this [127:07] society like? Like this is to be able to [127:10] just see this the work of people that [127:13] they've left behind and to just imagine [127:16] the amount of time that's taken place [127:17] and then you put yourself back [127:19] >> into that timeline and like [127:22] >> we just assume that this way that we are [127:25] this is how people are because this is [127:27] how people are today. It's so hard to [127:30] put your mind into like what it's like [127:32] and what it must have been like to live [127:34] back then. If you go to places earlier [127:37] this year I went to Easter Island and [127:39] Peru and both of them are described as [127:42] the navls of the world you know so they [127:45] have these these origin myths in both of [127:47] these places and when you're in these [127:49] places you have different dreams you [127:52] sleep really well you feel just good you [127:56] feel like you're on peptides you know [127:58] you just feel you're like oh my gosh I [128:00] feel so healthy I feel healed and you it [128:04] so the The land itself where they built [128:06] a lot of these ancient places is [128:09] powerful. You know, I don't I don't [128:11] think it's a coincidence that we see the [128:13] Moai and Easter Island built around this [128:16] absolutely incredible place or Cusco, [128:18] which is such a beautiful place that you [128:20] see these stone walls. I think that they [128:22] built there because of the energy that [128:24] was there already. [128:25] >> What do you think was before that? [128:28] And like what is this timeline? How far [128:30] does it go back? Like what is the origin [128:33] of sophisticated civilization? Like what [128:35] is the year? When does it all start [128:38] happening? [128:39] >> I wonder sometimes if the purpose of [128:42] building structures like that is so [128:44] people like you ask those questions. [128:48] >> That's the whole point. [128:49] >> Well, maybe [128:50] >> is to is to blow our minds and get us to [128:54] think about consciousness and the [128:58] history of our species. The fact that [129:00] we're sitting there having this [129:01] conversation is because of the stones [129:03] that were built who knows how long ago. [129:06] >> Yeah. [129:06] >> And maybe that was the point. [129:09] >> It certainly could have been a part of [129:10] the point because what we're doing today [129:13] when we talk about our society being [129:15] sick and superficial and silly. All of [129:19] our structures are temporary [129:20] >> and they're ugly. [129:21] >> Well, some of them are cool looking. I [129:23] think some are cool. [129:25] >> Some of them. Yeah, [129:26] >> they're cool. They they're certainly not [129:28] anchor watt cool. [129:29] >> Yeah. [129:30] >> You know, they're cool, but the the [129:32] point is like they're all essentially [129:35] temporary. A thousand years from now, [129:37] none of them will exist. They will all [129:38] be absorbed by the earth. [129:40] >> And that's hard for people to [129:41] understand. If you're walking through [129:42] Manhattan, like this will always be [129:44] here. Nope. Nope. Nope. It won't. It [129:47] won't. If everybody just left [129:49] >> and you came back 5,000 years from now, [129:51] there wouldn't be [ __ ] here. Yeah. [129:52] >> So then it leads me to this question. [129:54] the timeline that we're looking at. If [129:56] you're looking at pre flood timeline, [129:58] you know, 11 12,000 years ago, things [129:59] were sophisticated, [130:02] >> maybe it's way longer than that. Because [130:04] if if you have a 100,000 years of super [130:07] sophisticated civilization, what what [130:09] does that look like? Yep. [130:10] >> What do people look like then? [130:12] >> And this is one of the things that [130:13] people are proposing when they [130:15] >> look at anatomically modern human [130:17] beings. So anatomically modern human [130:19] beings and then not these Peru skulls [130:22] but whatever just you and I are. [130:24] >> They've pushed that back now to 1 [130:26] million years. [130:28] >> So okay, why did it take so long before [130:31] people just like you and I figured out [130:34] agriculture, figured out civilization, [130:37] figured out cities? [130:39] >> What were we doing that whole time? [130:41] >> What What was going on? And is it [130:43] possible that it's just when you go back [130:46] that far, you don't find anything? Y, [130:49] >> you don't find anything. That seems more [130:52] likely to me. And when you look at the [130:54] immense [130:56] erosion that uh Ben Van Kirkwick has [130:59] pointed out to the really the older [131:01] stones in Egypt where you can clearly [131:03] see they've built on top of them on the [131:05] outside and you see this intense erosion [131:07] like this is tens of thousands of years [131:09] of erosion. Well, what if it's a hundred [131:11] thousand? What the [ __ ] is left? What if [131:13] it's 200,000? [131:14] >> What's left from a 100,000 years ago? [131:18] Maybe some stones, [131:20] myths, and spiritual traditions or [131:23] 10,000 years ago. The that's the only [131:25] thing that makes it through cataclysms, [131:27] the human stories, spiritual traditions, [131:30] and these megalithic stones. [131:32] >> And a real cataclysm. If you're talking [131:34] about the destruction of civilization [131:37] itself, [131:38] how many of those people even know the [131:40] stories? How many live? How many [131:41] scholars survive the apocalypse? How [131:44] many? I mean, we know that 70,000 years [131:48] ago, the Toba volcano, the super [131:50] volcano, wiped people out down to the [131:52] point of I less than 100,000 people on [131:55] Earth. [131:57] >> Just 70,000 years ago, [131:58] >> right? [131:59] >> 100,000 people. [132:00] >> We have been on the brink so many times. [132:02] >> Can you imagine like one Eagles football [132:04] game, [132:05] >> right? Take that crowd. That's the [132:07] entire population of Earth now. [132:09] >> Yeah. Right. One packed UT game. That's [132:14] everybody on Earth. And now we have to [132:16] branch out and go to China and go to [132:18] Africa and go everywhere. That's all the [132:21] people on Earth. [132:22] >> That just shows how amazing and [132:23] resilient we are. [132:24] >> Yeah. And also fragile. Yes. You know, [132:27] and and also it really [132:31] it really shines a light on the [132:32] preposterous nature of the conventional [132:35] timeline. It really does because it's [132:37] like look guys, there's so much evidence [132:40] that there's holes in the story. [132:41] >> Yeah. [132:42] >> At what point in time do you stop and [132:44] say, "Look, there a lot of these people [132:47] did great work and they made these [132:49] conclusions based on the understanding [132:51] that they had at the time. But as time [132:54] has gone on, there's come a point where [132:56] we have to reevaluate this. And if you [132:58] don't reevaluate it, you're going to [133:00] lose all the respect of the people that [133:01] are paying attention." Totally. because [133:02] there's too many people that are looking [133:04] at this and saying, "Hey, no one's [133:07] discounting or discrediting your work. [133:09] No one's saying you're a bad person." [133:11] You know, no one's saying you're an [133:12] idiot. It's like this is what we knew [133:14] back then. But to say that this is all [133:16] we know and any new information, as [133:18] profound as it might be, like 1.2 [133:21] kilometer structures underneath the [133:23] Great Pyramids, like that doesn't mean [133:25] that you're an idiot. It just means that [133:27] this is an ongoing thing. It's not done. [133:30] >> Yep. We haven't figured it out yet and [133:33] we're not going to for a long ass time. [133:35] This is a long trek and as LAR improves [133:38] and as the radio tomography and all [133:41] these different things that they come up [133:42] with and then imagine the advances 10, [133:45] 20, 30 years from now in their ability [133:47] to look like look at subsaharan Africa. [133:50] Very little expedition's been done there [133:52] and they're like what? [133:53] >> Let's light our subsaharan Africa. [133:55] >> There's whales there. [133:56] >> I've seen the whales. [133:57] >> Whales? Yeah. Okay, so [133:59] >> they're incredible. What the [ __ ] You [134:00] find whales in the desert. Okay, what [134:02] else is out there? Is there a city under [134:04] all that [ __ ] Like, what is that? Like, [134:06] what what is in there? [134:09] >> You know what's funny though? You can [134:11] reveal cities under the jungle and [134:13] nobody talks about it, [134:14] >> right? [134:15] >> You know, they they just did that in [134:17] Cambodia and it's not headline news [134:20] around the world that there are entire [134:21] cities being found in the Amazon jungle [134:24] or in Cambodia. It just is one quick [134:26] headline and then everybody ignores it. [134:28] Well, it's good for us because it it [134:30] gives us great podcast content. [134:32] >> You know what I mean? It's like it's the [134:33] only way people could find out about it. [134:35] And again, it's science. The LAR scans [134:38] of the Amazon are spectacular. [134:41] >> Incredible. [134:41] >> And you you look at it and you go, "Oh [134:42] my god, there was probably millions of [134:44] people living here. This is not like a [134:47] bunch of tribal people that are shooting [134:49] bows and arrows all the time. No, [134:50] >> they were engineering the rainforest." [134:52] >> Oh. Yeah. And it just the fact that more [134:57] people aren't talking about this is a [134:59] little stunning to me. But I just think [135:00] they don't get informed. And then they [135:03] also assume, you know, you see some [135:05] YouTube headline that's got big fancy [135:08] font and you know, people are older than [135:10] we think. Like, oh, go on. I went to [135:13] Cambridge. [ __ ] off. [135:14] >> And you have a lot of AI stuff out there [135:16] that's just complete bogus. [135:17] >> Yeah. [135:18] >> You know, so you it's hard to know what [135:21] uh what the truth is. [135:23] >> Sure. And then there's a lot of weird [135:24] stuff like the Sage Wall in Montana. [135:28] I've watched some videos on that. I'm [135:29] not convinced. I I think that might be a [135:32] a weird geological formation. [135:35] >> Yeah. [135:35] >> But it doesn't look like it. Parts of it [135:38] really look like it. Stack stones. [135:40] >> I think that, you know, during the ice [135:42] age in North America, it was an [135:44] extremely harsh time with walls of ice, [135:48] right? So if if the younger dus happened [135:50] the way that I believe it happened, [135:53] North America would have been just [135:55] almost wiped clean. You know, if so, if [135:57] there were ancient structures here, they [136:00] probably didn't survive the way that [136:01] they did in Egypt and other places like [136:03] that. [136:03] >> Certainly not under the glaciers, right? [136:05] >> Cool. I just found [136:06] >> what' you find. [136:07] >> I see the middle of the desert here. [136:09] >> Yeah. [136:09] >> I'm going to zoom in. Desert. Desert. [136:12] Desert. Desert. [136:14] Desert. Right. [136:15] >> Right. until [136:18] >> Whoa. [136:20] >> An ancient fortress. [136:22] >> How old is it [136:22] >> of draw? Why? [136:25] No one knows what it is. [136:27] >> What? [136:28] >> Yeah. They don't they they're assuming [136:30] that maybe uh as a hiding place for Jews [136:33] when they were being persecuted and and [136:34] taken out of there. But according to [136:36] this, [136:38] no explanation. It's just in the middle [136:40] of the desert. [136:42] >> Whoa. [136:42] >> Sand, straw, and clay. [136:44] >> Whoa. Oh, [136:46] >> just like look at the dunes. Imagine if [136:48] it didn't just I'm blown away. [136:50] >> Imagine deciding to build there. [136:52] >> No, nowhere. [136:53] >> Why did they build [136:53] >> or what else is around it? You know [136:55] what's hiding underneath next to it? [136:56] >> God, what did it look like when it was [136:59] first built? And what is it made out of? [137:01] Sand [137:02] >> stone. What is it made of? [137:03] >> It said sand and clay. [137:05] >> Wow. [137:05] >> Which means it's probably It probably is [137:07] newer. [137:08] >> Yeah, [137:08] >> sure. But I'm at my point is like it's [137:10] hiding under the desert and then just in [137:12] the middle of nowhere and no one I've [137:14] never heard of it being brought up on [137:15] here by anybody. [137:16] >> One big sandstorm and that thing's gone, [137:17] >> right? [137:18] >> Buried. [137:19] >> Look at all the sand. [137:21] >> Well, the crazy thing is think that that [137:22] sand was all jungle and before that it [137:24] was ocean. [137:25] >> I know. [137:26] >> This it's so insane. [137:28] >> Seeing the whales in the middle of the [137:29] desert is a surreal experience. [137:31] >> Surreal. Have you seen them in person? [137:33] >> Yeah. [137:33] >> Oh yeah. [137:34] >> What is that? Like how close they let [137:36] you get? [137:36] >> Oh, you just walk right up to them. [137:38] There's just like little rocks on the [137:40] ground outlining the skeletons. [137:42] >> Yeah. [137:43] >> Wow. [137:44] >> But it's, you know, when we were driving [137:45] out there, they were they had security's [137:47] concerns. So, we had a security car in [137:50] front of ours, then ours, and one behind [137:51] us. [137:52] >> Look how bonkers that is. [137:53] >> Yeah. It It looks like dragons. [137:57] It's just otherworldly. It's so neat. [138:00] >> That's so crazy. [138:01] >> It's a long drive, though. It's like a [138:02] whole day. [138:03] >> Well, the dragons thing is a weird one. [138:05] Yeah, [138:06] >> because there's uh this is one of the [138:08] things that the view made fun of me of. [138:09] He said he believes in dragons [138:13] was saying that. So I put I changed all [138:14] of the headings of my social media [138:16] account. Dragon believer. That's what [138:19] Cuz I'm like that's so funny. [138:20] >> Yeah. You and millions of other people [138:23] around the world and almost every [138:25] ancient civilization [138:26] >> Yeah. [138:26] >> believed in dragons. [138:28] >> It's very odd. It's very odd that they [138:30] all have this story of these ancient [138:31] serpents. Uh but but also they were [138:35] really bad at their depictions of actual [138:39] things. And um one of the things that I [138:41] pointed out to Jamie was when I visited [138:43] Italy a few years ago, I went to this [138:46] really old church and they had this uh [138:50] stone mosaic artwork that was of Noah [138:53] and uh was it Noah and the whale? [138:56] >> No, Jonah. [138:57] >> Jonah. Jonah and the whale. I think [138:59] that's what it was. But this whale does [139:01] not look like a whale. It looks really [139:03] weird. It's this really weird looking [139:06] thing that's supposed to represent a [139:07] whale. Why? Because they never saw a [139:09] whale. So like they're they're making [139:11] their own version of what a whale [139:13] stories, [139:14] >> right? [139:14] >> Yeah. [139:15] >> See if you can find that. I know it's on [139:17] my Instagram. Super old. I think it was [139:19] probably 10 years ago. [139:21] >> Um but whatever the [ __ ] that is like, [139:24] okay, that's how they That's it. Like [139:26] look at that thing. Ain't that dope? [139:28] >> That doesn't look like a whale, [139:29] >> right? at all. Right. [139:30] >> But [139:31] >> looks like a griffin. [139:32] >> Yeah. It looks like some kind of a [139:35] monster that lives in the ocean. So this [139:37] is like their version of describing what [139:40] a whale looks like. Right. [139:42] >> So when they're describing dragons, like [139:46] what are they really describing? Do they [139:48] actually fly or we or are we talking [139:49] about like crocodiles? Like what are we [139:51] talking about? Are we talking about like [139:53] some sort of extinct dinosaurs that [139:55] survived and then, you know, they only [139:58] made it for a few thousand years ago? [140:00] Because there's things that we know [140:01] existed during the human timeline that [140:04] they just don't exist anymore. They went [140:05] extinct. Yeah. You know, giant sloths, [140:07] for instance, is a bunch of North [140:09] American animals. 65% in fact, of all [140:12] North American megapa didn't make it [140:15] after the younger dus impact. [140:16] >> Yep. [140:17] >> So, what what is what is the serpent? [140:20] What is the dragon? Like what? Why is [140:22] why does China have one? Why does Japan [140:23] have one? Why does Eastern European have [140:25] one? Why why does so many ancient [140:27] cultures talk about this one specific [140:30] thing? [140:31] >> Yeah. [140:31] >> And the Bible references it like 34 [140:34] times. [140:35] >> What's interesting though is in most of [140:37] the ancient civilizations, the serpents [140:40] or the dragons are meant to be guardian [140:42] figures, right? So they were presented [140:44] in a positive light. They weren't evil, [140:46] right? [140:46] >> But in the Bible, the serpent is [140:48] actually the trickster, [140:50] >> you know? So it's it's one of the only [140:52] traditions in the ancient world where [140:55] the the serpent is s it's suggested that [140:58] the serpent is evil evil [141:00] >> in Adam and Eve in that depiction. [141:03] >> You know he tricked Eve. [141:04] >> Yeah. [141:04] >> But in front of all of the temples in [141:06] Cambodia there are giant naga which is [141:08] like the seven or nine headed snakes and [141:11] they guard the liinal space between the [141:13] outside world and the temples. So that [141:16] that's their purpose right? They're [141:18] there. When you see a naga, it means [141:20] you're entering um you're entering a [141:23] temple. You're entering the zone of the [141:25] gods. So, it was always positive except [141:28] for in ancient Christianity. [141:30] >> Yes. The King James version is the [141:32] version that says dragon, but it's uh [141:34] probably a translation issue maybe. [141:36] >> Ah, interesting. So, sea monster, [141:38] serpent translated in many modern [141:40] versions as jackal, sea creature, or [141:42] monster depending on the context. A [141:45] dragon often renders Hebrew terms like [141:48] tanin, which is a sea monster, a [141:51] serpent, interesting, [141:52] >> fire breathing reptiles. [141:54] >> But it's just like what were they? Like [141:57] why were there so many versions of this? [141:59] Was that a real thing? And is it a real [142:02] thing from 11,000 years ago? Is it a [142:04] real thing from 20,000 years ago, 50,000 [142:06] years ago? And again, when when it comes [142:09] to the fossil record, like how much [142:11] evidence would there be of that thing [142:12] existing, [142:13] >> right? They didn't even find dinosaurs [142:15] until like what the 1700s or something, [142:18] >> right? Yeah. [142:19] >> Whenever it was. And then there's a lot [142:21] of people that think dinosaurs are fake, [142:22] which is fun. [142:24] >> There's all sorts of rabbit holes you [142:25] can go down. [142:26] >> It's a flat fun. Well, they have a point [142:30] in that uh a lot of what you go to see [142:32] in the museum is not an actual dinosaur [142:34] skeleton. It's a recreation. [142:35] >> Totally. [142:36] >> Yeah. Because the actual skeletons are [142:38] probably somewhere else. That is a fact. [142:40] And then it's also the fact that they [142:42] take like portions of it and then they [142:44] recreate what's missing and then create [142:46] a skeleton. [142:47] >> Make a lot of assumptions. [142:48] >> Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions. [142:49] Yeah. [142:50] >> Well, this is why um in um the the [142:53] science museum in Bosezeman, Montana, we [142:56] talked about this before. I went there [142:58] with my kids once and they have a raptor [143:00] and on one side of the raptor it's what [143:02] we think of like from Jurassic Park that [143:05] it had like scaly skin like a lizard and [143:08] the other side it's covered in feathers. [143:09] the bird, [143:09] >> which is Yeah, this is the alternative [143:11] perspective. [143:12] >> This is Gus, the most complete uh [143:15] dinosaur type T-Rex skeleton. 61% [143:18] complete and it is for sale right now. [143:20] >> Oh, how much does that cost? [143:22] >> You want to guess? [143:22] >> 20 million. [143:23] >> Yeah. No, no. More. More. [143:24] >> You're taking It's the bids are going [143:26] up. [143:26] >> 80 million. [143:27] >> Yeah. I mean, that's the I think the [143:28] expected is somewhere in the 65 to 80 [143:30] million range. [143:31] >> Whoa. And 60% complete. [143:34] >> 61%. Yeah. [143:35] >> So, that means you're getting 39% [143:36] [ __ ] when you buy it. I don't I [143:38] think they've just left some of it out. [143:40] I don't know that they filled it in all. [143:42] >> Oh, okay. So, that's what's left. That's [143:44] actually what's So, there's some stuff [143:45] missing. Doesn't look like [143:46] >> his little arms. [143:48] >> He does. They're right there. [143:49] >> See, there's some [143:51] >> Okay. Some Some stuff ribs and [ __ ] [143:54] >> That looks pretty [143:55] >> I don't know. It looks pretty complete. [143:57] That looks pretty complete. That's sick. [143:59] There was a house that I looked at that [144:00] was for sale in uh Malibu once and um in [144:05] the house they it came with a dinosaur. [144:07] If you paid an extra million dollars, [144:08] you get to keep the dinosaur. [144:10] >> Really? [144:10] >> Yeah. They had a raptor skeleton. [144:12] >> That seems expensive. [144:13] >> It was a little high. A little high. [144:15] Well, the house was a little high. It [144:17] was It's probably worth 50 bucks now. [144:19] Nobody wants to live there. [144:20] >> I think a lot of times about what it [144:21] would feel like to be hunted from the [144:23] sky, [144:24] >> right? The pterodactyls. Sometimes [144:26] you'll be hiking in the desert and [144:27] you'll see a, you know, a hawk will fly [144:28] over you and you'll get that shadow. [144:30] >> Yeah. [144:31] >> And just imagine if it's just this [144:32] massive hunter just coming for you. [144:35] There's nothing you can do, [144:36] >> right? When did those die off, too? [144:39] >> Gus has some bite marks on his ribs. [144:41] >> Whoa, [144:43] that's crazy. I wonder if that's [144:45] postmortem. [144:46] >> Fossilized bite marks. [144:48] >> Yeah, that could have been somebody [144:49] scavenging them. [144:50] >> Yeah, could have been. So, Trinity. So [144:53] the So uh it's valued between 20 million [144:56] and 30 million. The highest pre-sale [144:58] estimate ever placed on a dinosaur at [145:00] auction. [145:01] >> Yeah. I think there's already some [145:02] higher bids than that though currently. [145:04] >> I bet there's a lot of dorks out there [145:05] with a lot of money. Want that [ __ ] in [145:08] their house next week. [145:09] >> People love to touch history. [145:10] >> Yeah. Elon's probably going to have that [145:12] [ __ ] at SpaceX. [145:14] >> Oh, do you do you want to touch some [145:16] history? [145:16] >> Yeah, sure. Yeah. [145:18] >> Okay. I brought you a little show and [145:21] tell. [145:22] >> Okay. [145:22] Oo, exciting. [145:25] >> So, I grew up in western Nebraska on a [145:28] giant corn farm. [145:31] This is called a Jimmy Allen point. [145:35] This is 9,500 years old. [145:38] >> Wow. [145:39] >> It's a spear point. So, it was being [145:41] chipped basically when Gobeclet was at [145:44] the height of its building. [145:48] >> Wow. [145:48] >> 8,500 to 9,500 years old. [145:51] My grandpa had a load of rock delivered [145:54] to his house and that was in it. So they [145:57] would dredge this this river rock from [146:00] the rivers, the Plat River, and deliver [146:02] it to your house. And he found that in [146:04] his yard. [146:05] >> Holy [ __ ] [146:07] >> Isn't that an incredible experience? [146:09] >> That's amazing. [146:10] >> To touch it. [146:11] >> That's amazing. I don't know how old [146:13] this one is, but this is from here. [146:17] >> Oh, yes. [146:19] That's a pretty good one. This is [146:20] actually better. This one's really good. [146:23] >> That one's substantially older than [146:24] this. [146:25] >> Yeah, [146:25] >> I bet this is 2,000 years old. That [146:28] one's almost 10. [146:29] >> That's crazy. [146:30] >> So, I'm going to show you something [146:31] else. It's just a part of one, but this [146:34] is part of a fulsome point. [146:37] >> Which is 12,700 years old. So, that was [146:41] >> definitely [146:43] created to hunt something that's [146:44] extinct. Now [146:47] >> you can see the flute up the middle and [146:49] the look at the work on the sides of it. [146:51] >> Wow. [146:54] That's crazy. [146:56] >> It's the most incredible stone work. And [146:59] you see that over time it went from [147:01] Clovis to Fulsome and then down the line [147:03] to to points like this and it just, you [147:06] know, became Yeah. So th those are This [147:09] would have looked like that if it was [147:11] full. [147:11] >> Wow. You're seeing the central flute on [147:14] this one. But both of these were found [147:17] out on my farm. [147:18] >> That's pretty amazing. [147:19] >> Yeah. I saw you talking to Taylor [147:21] Sheridan about arrowheads and I thought [147:23] to myself, I wonder if Joe would like to [147:25] hold a 9,500y old spear point. [147:28] >> I did love it. Thank you. Thank you for [147:30] letting me hold that. That's pretty [147:31] dope. It's pretty incredible too when [147:33] you think about the history of North [147:34] America that when Europe and China and [147:39] all these other parts of the world had [147:41] developed sophisticated [147:43] civilizations and machines and all these [147:46] different things. And these people were [147:47] living a very nomadic hunter gatherer [147:51] life [147:52] >> like essentially in the stone age all [147:54] the way up to the 16 1700s until [147:58] >> except for some of the mounts. So some [148:00] of the mound structures like in [148:02] Louisiana, I think those are about 9,000 [148:05] years old. Really, [148:06] >> I believe. And those are massive [148:07] platforms, right? Like earthworks that [148:10] are almost at least unexplainable for [148:12] why they would have built them. [148:14] >> Do you think flood? [148:16] >> I don't I don't think any of them have [148:17] been dated to pre flood. [148:19] >> So this is post flood, whoever was here. [148:23] >> So if people lived here, so the White [148:26] Sands, New Mexico footprints are all pre [148:28] flood. That's [148:29] >> 23,000. Yep. [148:30] >> Um, one thing that's interesting is [148:32] those people were barefoot, right? So, [148:35] the question is like what was [148:38] sophisticated civilization like in North [148:41] America then? Because it seems like [148:42] North America in particular because of [148:45] the fact that up until 11,000 years ago [148:48] was covered in ice. Most of North [148:50] America was covered in like a mile high [148:52] of ice. It's so hard for us to think. [148:55] >> Chicago gone. [148:56] >> Can you imagine? [148:57] >> Yeah. Gone. Montana gone. Yeah. [149:00] Everything's gone. Colorado gone. [149:02] Everything's completely covered in a [149:05] mile of ice. [149:06] >> And then 11,000 years ago, it all goes [149:08] away real quick. [149:09] >> And then you have the Great Lakes. [149:11] >> Yeah. Which is so strange. And then if [149:14] you look at Randall Carlson's done an [149:16] amazing job of like sort of illuminating [149:19] like what kind of a mass of water it [149:23] would have sent rushing through the [149:26] entire country. [149:27] >> Yeah. at the time that these things were [149:29] almost instantaneously melted. Like how [149:31] insane that must have been if huge [149:34] asteroidal impacts slammed into these [149:37] ice caps. [149:38] >> Here's what two miles of ice looks like [149:39] next to a city. [149:40] >> Oh my god, [149:46] that's so crazy that that everything [149:50] that we see when you drive through [149:51] Kansas and Nebraska and Iowa, all that [149:54] was under all that. [149:55] >> Yeah. My husband's from North Idaho and [149:57] you can see the all of the ancient [149:59] remains of these lakes, you know, these [150:01] ice dams that burst. [150:02] >> Yeah. [150:03] >> Just float over the landscape. And I [150:05] think Randall Carlson is especially [150:07] gifted in describing these events. Yeah. [150:10] >> Making it real for us. [150:11] >> Well, he's obsessed and he spent so much [150:14] when I met him. I met him in Georgia. I [150:17] did a show in Atlanta and I met him like [150:19] 2005 or something like that and he was [150:20] explaining it to me back then and I and [150:23] I had never heard that before. I was [150:24] like, "What?" Like that was my first [150:26] introduction to the younger d impact [150:29] theory and that's when it started [150:30] putting all the pieces together. Okay, [150:32] well that's what ended civilization. [150:34] That's and that and now that we know [150:37] that that's a real event because of core [150:40] samples because the you know they've [150:42] been find they find layers of vidium [150:44] which is very common in space very rare [150:46] on earth and these microdiamonds that [150:48] appear when you have impacts [150:50] >> the black mat. [150:51] >> Yeah. [150:52] >> They know that it happened. So, some big [150:54] events happened. I think they think [150:57] 11,800 years ago, and they think again [150:59] like 10,000 years ago. They think it [151:01] happened more than once. [151:02] >> Yeah. [151:02] >> Would kind of make sense that it took so [151:03] long for civilization to reemerge? [151:06] >> Yeah. And the question is, did that [151:09] civilization that was alive at the time [151:11] know that it was coming? [151:12] >> Right. [151:13] >> And what did they do to prepare? [151:15] >> Right. Or could they have even? [151:17] >> And did they know that probably the only [151:19] thing that was going to be left after [151:21] that is stone? M. [151:23] >> So what is encoded in that stone for us [151:25] to read today? [151:28] >> Yeah, that's the weirdness of um things [151:30] like Egypt when you look at the pyramids [151:33] and the dimensions and how the [151:35] dimensions align with the [151:37] >> you know the the dimensions of earth and [151:39] the distances to the moon and yeah it's [151:41] all the whole thing is very weird. [151:44] >> It's very weird. [151:45] >> It doesn't seem like coincidence. [151:46] >> No, [151:47] >> it seems like they knew exactly what [151:49] they were doing. And what is the you [151:51] know the one language that's going to [151:53] survive? Geometry, math, right? [151:56] Astrology, [151:57] >> right? It's universal [151:58] >> stones are the things that are going to [151:59] survive. Myths, [152:01] right? So that it's a it's messages [152:04] being passed down to us today and now [152:07] people are looking and paying attention [152:08] and it just it's it's a complete [152:11] obsession for me. I don't know how [152:13] anybody thinks of anything else besides [152:15] ancient history. [152:17] >> Once I get into it, I feel the same way. [152:19] >> Amazing. Yeah, I mean [152:20] >> it's too amazing. It [152:22] >> It's certainly a puzzle and uh if it [152:24] wasn't for people like you and other [152:26] people that are doing similar things, [152:28] most people would be very blissfully [152:30] unaware of how nuts the the actual [152:33] physical history of the earth is. [152:35] >> Yeah. Yep. And you know, until recently, [152:40] a lot of this, first of all, people [152:41] couldn't travel around the world. They [152:43] couldn't [152:45] they couldn't read scripts that weren't [152:47] in their language. Archaeologists were [152:49] exploring sites and their papers were [152:51] going to the universities. And so we [152:53] didn't have the opportunity to see these [152:56] global patterns the way that we do now. [152:58] To to link, okay, I see the same thing [153:00] in Egypt that I see in India. Like this [153:03] thousand ton statue is in India and it's [153:06] also in Egypt. What about these walls? [153:08] They're the same. I don't think it was [153:10] as easy to do that back in the day. you [153:12] know, even the people that were deep [153:13] into the research in Egypt in the 1800s, [153:16] they weren't traveling to Peru. So, we [153:19] are at a very unique time in history [153:21] where we can look across all of it, [153:23] especially in the next 10 years when [153:25] we're leveraging AI and other [153:27] technologies from space-based scanning [153:29] or whatever. I I think it's going to [153:31] fundamentally change the way that we [153:33] view the history of the world. [153:35] >> I think so, too. And so, thank you. [153:37] Thank you for being here. Thank you for [153:39] your channel. And uh thank you for all [153:41] your interest in this because it's uh [153:43] absolutely fascinating. [153:44] >> Thank you for having me on. This was so [153:45] fun. [153:46] >> My pleasure. Let's do it again. [153:47] >> Okay. Love that. [153:48] >> All right. Thank you. Bye everybody.