Zach Bush Warns Glyphosate and Synthetic Medicine Threaten Human Extinction

PowerfulJRE

Industrial agriculture, reliance on synthetic pharmaceuticals, and corporate disconnection from nature accelerate global health declines and threaten human survival within decades.

AI-assisted summary of Joe Rogan Experience #2529 - Zach Bush — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2026-07-22

Detailed notes

## Background This episode of Joe Rogan Experience (#2529) was published by PowerfulJRE on YouTube on July 22, 2026. The page description introduces guest Zach Bush, MD, as a physician specializing in internal medicine, endocrinology, and hospice care, who is also the founder of Seraphic Group and the regenerative agriculture nonprofit Farmer’s Footprint.

## TL;DR Zach Bush joins Joe Rogan to discuss how modern societal structures, abstract economic systems, and antibiotic chemical interventions have disconnected humanity from natural biological systems. The discussion explores ancient technologies, indigenous ecological knowledge, environmental toxins like glyphosate, and the health crises facing modern civilization. Bush frames humanity's current trajectory as a collective 'hospice moment' that presents an opportunity for systemic renewal through reconnecting with nature and biological energy.

## Atmosphere & style The conversation carries a deeply philosophical and speculative tone, shifting fluidly between sweeping high-level concepts and specific medical or ecological theories. Zach Bush speaks with an earnest, contemplative intensity, framing complex modern issues in grand, holistic terms, while Joe Rogan acts as an engaged and grounded counterweight, frequently pressing with practical real-world counterexamples and personal observations. The exchange feels intellectually ambitious and visionary, maintaining an earnest, reflective energy throughout.

## Key takeaways - [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1s) Zach Bush argues that reductionist science treats the human body as an isolated system rather than a deeply interconnected component of nature and its microbiome ecosystem. - [03:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=201s) Humanity is framed as currently facing a collective 'hospice moment,' experiencing a species-level diagnosis that requires shifting from systemic conflict to integration. - [23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1426s) Indigenous societies, such as the Achuar tribe, operate as keystone species that enhance biodiversity and maintain ecological balance through localized systems. - [32:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1926s) Modern industrial additives like high-fructose corn syrup contain synthetic molecular structures designed to be patented, which alters human metabolic health. - [42:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2569s) BioGeometry and shape transmissions illustrate how energetic frequencies and geometric proportions interact directly with biological physiological processes. - [52:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3133s) Conventional historical timelines regarding ancient megalithic sites like the Pyramids of Giza are challenged, proposing lost acoustic, frequency, and biological technologies. - [01:03:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3814s) Human biological intelligence functions like an antenna receiving nature's signals, which has been impaired during the post-WWII 'antibiotic era'. - [01:14:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4442s) The 1910 Flexner Report and post-WWII petroleum surpluses systematically reshaped modern medicine away from herbal practices toward synthetic, patented pharmaceutical molecules. - [01:32:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5546s) Near-death experiences and hospice observations indicate that consciousness and sensory reception extend beyond standard physical senses and mechanical biology. - [02:25:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8740s) The Human Genome Project revealed that non-coding 'junk' DNA makes up 98.5% of the human genome, functioning as a complex inter-species genetic library. - [02:36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9394s) Direct, immersive contact with nature—such as three consecutive nights outdoors—can measurably restore immune system function and cellular vitality. - [02:40:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9657s) Widespread exposure to glyphosate disrupts mitochondrial ATP energy production, correlating with a cascade of modern chronic health and fertility declines.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1s) The Coffee Debate and Human Relationships with Nature

The conversation kicks off with Zach Bush turning down coffee in favor of water, admitting he never quite figured out how the whole coffee thing works and prefers tea instead. Joe Rogan seizes the opportunity to quiz Bush, as a medical expert, on the wildly conflicting information surrounding coffee. Rogan points out that one day it is praised as an amazing antioxidant with numerous positive health benefits, and the next day it is demonized for causing severe dehydration and delivering far too much caffeine.

Bush responds by suggesting that the next major advancement for humankind will involve moving away from demonizing anything nature provides, focusing instead on our actual relationship to it. He explains that whether coffee is a health benefit or a detriment fundamentally depends on an individual's specific relationship to the substance. He critiques past science and fad diets for treating the human body as an isolated system while studying the impact of a single chemical like caffeine.

> "You're not an isolated system. And so if coffee is part of a complex ecosystem of your microbiome, the soil systems of your body, then it's going to supercharge you into health. But if coffee sits there as a drug that is bypassing the felt sense of being human, then you're probably undermining your potential to be alive fully..."

[01:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=108s) Machine-Like Behavior and the Corporate Mirage

Rogan notes how interesting it is that caffeine is the one drug routinely and explicitly provided by corporate employers in the office. Bush takes the observation a step further, asserting that the primary drug offered in modern workplaces is actually an ingrained, performance-based reward system designed to prompt machine-like output. The human brain naturally contains every neurochemical necessary to control behavior, and society has spent the last 150 years molding corporate environments around these mechanical patterns.

Drawing from his extensive background in medicine, Bush shares that his third sub-specialty was hospice care, which allowed him to sit by thousands of deathbeds. He reveals a striking commonality among the dying: not a single person ever spent their final moments reminiscing about their time spent in an office. Even though office work consumes roughly 40 hours a week for decades, it completely fails to compute or integrate into the soul's experience at the end of life. Rogan agrees, noting that even if someone makes a massive amount of money, they are still fundamentally locked up for eight hours a day doing something they likely do not want to do.

[03:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=201s) The Obsession with Numbers Over Human Feeling

The discussion shifts toward how human beings became abstract and disconnected from living systems. Rogan points out that cultural narratives heavily reinforce these delusions, celebrating the guy who shows up every day to a miserable, soul-crushing job as a hero, while dismissing the backyard poet as a mere hippie—unless, of course, that poet ends up selling a massive number of books like Hunter S. Scott Thompson, at which point society retroactively labels them a genius. Rogan emphasizes that people use almost anything as a crutch or an addiction to cope with a bad day, with unhealthy food being one of the biggest culprits.

Bush compliments Rogan on his 16-year broadcasting legacy across roughly 2,800 podcast episodes, stating that the platform is primed for "the most disruptive conversation that's ever been had." When Rogan asks what that could possibly be, Bush replies with two words: "Everything is perfect." He clarifies that the modern world is not experiencing a polycrisis, but rather a profound "hospice moment."

* As a hospice doctor, Bush found the work entirely different from his time running intensive care units (ICUs), where he felt he was constantly battling and failing against death. * In hospice care, victory shifts from merely extending survival to integrating the totality of one's experiences. * The transition allows dying patients to lay down the polarized "victim-perpetrator" dynamic and look past the limited five senses to realize the poetic perfection of their heartbreaks, disappointments, and joys.

[07:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=435s) The Species' Hospice Diagnosis and the Sociopath Reality

Bush posits that humanity, in its current form, has existed for roughly 300,000 years and has finally received its own hospice diagnosis, with only a few decades left in this current iteration. He suggests that if humanity can set aside its polarized, right-versus-wrong conflicts, it will experience a collective awakening where former enemies are understood to have simply been holding the polarity required for the broader human journey. He adds a fascinating medical anomaly to highlight this potential transition, noting that about 10% of hospice patients unexpectedly do not die, but are instead discharged to live entirely new lives.

Rogan pushes back gently on this idealistic outlook, calling it a wonderful perspective "if sociopaths weren't real." He highlights the harsh reality of individuals whose minds do not function harmoniously with others and will never change. To illustrate his point, Rogan shares a shocking anecdote about a guest who sat right in his studio, only to murder a man and decapitate him a couple of weeks later.

* Rogan explains his collaborative work with his friend Josh Dubin, who transitioned from the Innocence Project to the Ike Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice to help exonerate the wrongfully incarcerated. * Through the podcast's platform, multiple individuals have been freed. * Dubin brought on a guest who had served 25 years in prison for drug dealing and assault; though legally guilty, his sentence was egregiously long. * Merely weeks after filming the episode, the former inmate tracked down a man he had a personal beef with, killed him, cut his head off, placed a wig on the victim, and attempted a bizarre escape past high-definition security cameras that he seemingly did not understand due to his long incarceration.

[10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=604s) AI, Abstraction, and the Biological Future

Rogan emphasizes that the victim of the decapitation certainly did not experience a "perfect" moment, proving that innocent people constantly fall prey to real sociopaths. However, he agrees that society's current narrative of what it means to be a person is entirely broken, built on nonsense like 401k plans instead of true human experiences. Looking toward the future, Rogan notes how the rapid rise of Artificial Intelligence (AI) has brought concepts like Universal Basic Income (UBI)—or what Elon Musk terms "universal high income"—into mainstream discussion. The idea that people might be given enough resources to live without mandatory labor terrifies many because the education system has failed to teach individuals how to be curious, explore, and find intrinsic purpose.

> "Numbers that you don't even feel. The numbers go up, they go down, you don't even notice it, but you feel everything as a person... For whatever weird reason, we've been tricked into thinking that numbers are more valuable than the feelings."

Bush passionately validates this sentiment, declaring that Rogan has just nailed the single most important message for humanity: feeling is the only relevant metric for the human body. While Rogan muses that AI might eventually rework global infrastructure so humans can finally step back from running things and return to simply being people, Bush remains highly skeptical of a machine-dominated future. He insists that a mechanical system requiring external energy that cannot self-repair can never outlast biology. He dismisses the transhumanist, tech-centric future championed by Elon Musk—complete with brain chips and artificial limbs—as a massive, disorienting abstraction that occurs when vital context is lost, firmly concluding that the universe's ultimate pathway forward is strictly biological.

Here is a detailed, faithful walkthrough of Part 2 of the transcript:

### [16:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=975s) The Dehumanizing Legacy of Industrial Education and AI Zach Bush argues that for 150 years, society has trained children to sit in chairs, take multiple-choice tests, and undergo rigid programming rather than engaging in experiential learning. Because humans are naturally unsuited for machine-like behavior, forcing them into cubicles inevitably leads to declining health, productivity, and business failure. Bush views the current rise of AI as the natural endpoint of a humanity that has lost its connection to nature, reaching a "terminal state of abstraction."

Joe Rogan offers a contrasting perspective, speculating that artificial intelligence might not merely be a tool, but an entirely new form of non-biological life that humanity is meant to give birth to. He compares human technological ambition to an "electronic caterpillar that's making a cocoon," driven by a subconscious instinct to innovate and collect status-driven materialism. Rogan suggests that if AI takes over routine labor and Elon Musk's concept of universal high income comes to fruition, it could actually liberate humans from factory-style grind and allow them to return to being human.

- **Ketone IQ Sponsorship:** Rogan references DARPA's multi-million-dollar research into brain fuels for soldiers, noting that single servings of supplemental ketones originally cost $5,000 before Ketone IQ brought consumer doses down to $4 at Target and online.

---

### [20:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1248s) Motivation, Wealth, and Rethinking Education Bush pushes back on the idea of universal high income, arguing that giving every individual hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from the government would act as a "death sentence to human creativity." He asks Rogan whether guests born into multigenerational wealth have ever displayed greater motivation or creativity than those born into poverty. Rogan agrees that people raised in poverty generally possess far more drive to succeed.

However, Rogan contends that this dynamic only exists because society trains people to be motivated solely by money. He argues that if children were raised without monetary anxiety and instead educated to explore their intrinsic interests—such as piano, painting, or sports—a high-income safety net paired with a new educational paradigm would foster genuine human expression rather than laziness. Bush counters that money remains an abstract mechanism disconnected from nature, and dumping money into a broken system will always end in disaster.

---

### [23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1426s) Humans as Keystone Species and Indigenous Ecology When Rogan brings up hunter-gatherer societies, Bush explains that indigenous tribes represent humanity in its proper natural context, operating as a "keystone species of keystone species." Far from being passive foragers, these communities actively enrich their environments. Bush notes that wherever a true keystone species is present—whether it is re-introduced wolves in Yellowstone, beavers in South America, white lions in northern South Africa, or indigenous tribes—biodiversity, soil health, and overall vitality flourish.

Bush points out that the Amazon jungle is not a wild, unmanaged wilderness, but a massive man-made food forest cultivated by hundreds of native nations over 40,000 years. As human management was displaced, the region began drifting toward desertification cycles. Bush asserts that money is not the primary root cause of societal decay, but rather a downstream symptom of losing this foundational connection to Mother Earth.

- **Keystone Species Examples:** Reintroduced wolves in Yellowstone, beavers in South America, white lions in northern South Africa, and Amazonian indigenous nations. - **Amazon Rainforest History:** Cultivated as a managed food forest by native peoples for roughly 40,000 years.

---

### [26:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1607s) First Contact with the Achuar and the Threat of Abstraction Bush illustrates the rapid decay caused by modern intrusion by detailing his experiences with the Achuar tribe in the sacred headwaters of the Amazon along the Ecuador-Peru border. The Achuar were the last indigenous culture to make first contact with the industrialized world, which occurred in 1996. For tens of thousands of years, the Achuar maintained extreme resilience by capping their village populations at 120 people; once a village hit that limit, young men were sent out to start a new settlement.

In the mid-1990s, Achuar elders began sharing collective dreams predicting the end of the world caused by their "little brothers" who had lost their connection to nature. To prevent extinction, they attempted to "redream" this relationship by reaching out to Westerners through dreamwork. This led Bill Twist and Lynn Twist (then a global director for The Hunger Project) deep into the jungle, where native leaders were waiting on a riverbank to declare that it was time for contact.

- **Achuar First Contact Year:** 1996 - **Village Demographics:** Strictly capped at 120 inhabitants to ensure ecosystem balance and community resilience. - **Key Figures in Contact:** Bill Twist and Lynn Twist.

---

### [29:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1766s) The Destruction of Abundance and the 10-Year Household Cycle Bush explains how rapidly the introduction of abstract Western commerce eroded the Achuar's self-sufficiency. It began modestly with missionary schools distributing boxed apple juice containing high-fructose corn syrup and chemical flavorings. Within 30 years, this single taste of industrial sugar severed their traditional bond with the forest. Today, despite living in one of the most biodiverse environments on Earth, tribe members perceive themselves as impoverished, struggling to buy gasoline for outboard boat motors, sending children away to British-style city schools, and using smartphones.

Before this disruption, the Achuar had no concept of poverty or food storage. They built magnificent, 30-foot vaulted homes designed for indoor-outdoor living, which they intentionally burned down every 10 years to honor energy rebirth cycles before constructing new ones elsewhere. Each family maintained three distinct garden plots across different micro-ecosystems to guarantee a thriving harvest regardless of weather shifts. Bush emphasizes that human beings are capable of magnificent ecological balance, but even a slight fracture in their relationship to natural systems causes immediate collapse.

- **Traditional Architecture:** Homes built with 30-foot vaulted ceilings, intentionally burned down every 10 years to reset household energy dynamics. - **Agricultural Strategy:** Three distinct gardens maintained per family across micro-ecosystems to buffer against wet and dry seasonal variations.

[32:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1926s) High Fructose Corn Syrup, Racemic Molecules, and Corporate Patents

Zach Bush explains how the geometries of wealth and poverty function as sovereign frameworks within human behavior. Poverty, he argues, triggers an original human trauma: the belief that nature abandoned us and withheld what we needed. When a person tastes high fructose corn syrup in boxed apple juice, it acts like "cocaine on the frontal lobe," tricking the brain into believing humans created something better than nature.

Bush delves into the chemistry of high fructose corn syrup, noting it is a mirror image of natural fructose—a synthetic alteration created through a process known as a racemic reaction. Because this mirror-image molecule does not exist in nature, the liver cannot process it as a typical carbohydrate and instead handles it as an inflammatory triglyceride. Downstream, this aberration contributes to cardiovascular disease, brain inflammation, severe depression, and anxiety disorders. When Rogan asks why companies began altering molecules this way, Bush responds directly:

> "Because you can patent a molecule that doesn't exist in nature."

He compares this to the broader pharmaceutical model, where natural plant compounds are chemically altered specifically so they can be patented and commercialized. Reflecting on his own career, Bush notes that he spent 17 years in academia creating chemotherapy—attempting to poison cancer cells in laboratories every day—before realizing that certain compounds could nourish and restore cells instead.

* **Racemic Process:** A chemical process used to create a mirror-image molecule (a racemic mixture or enantiomer) not found in nature. * **Metabolic Impact:** The liver converts mirror-image fructose into inflammatory triglycerides rather than normal sugars. * **Patent Incentive:** Non-natural, synthetic chemical structures allow companies to secure patents and commercialize compounds. * **Academic Background:** Bush spent 17 years in academia developing chemotherapy treatments before shifting his focus to cellular nourishment.

---

[35:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2116s) Loneliness of the Cancer Cell and the Sociopath Model

Transitioning to cellular health, Bush argues that sociopaths and cancer cells share a fundamental root cause: extreme isolation from their surrounding ecosystem. In biological research, cancer cells are not external invaders; rather, a cancer cell is "the loneliest cell in a human body." When a cell loses communication with its surrounding environment, it assumes malignant traits, becoming increasingly life-threatening over time. Similarly, a sociopath represents a human being who has become so completely isolated from the natural collective that they act with malignancy toward life around them.

When Bush fed and nourished isolated cancer cells instead of trying to poison or eradicate them, two outcomes occurred based on their remaining metabolic capacity: either they repaired themselves and reconnected with the biological system, or they underwent *apoptosis*—a gentle, natural self-elimination that allowed stem cells to replace them.

Rogan pushes back on this perspective, arguing that while ideal parenting might prevent sociopathy in a utopian world, real human existence is messy. As long as human freedom exists, Rogan notes, people will be raised poorly, leading to anger, theft, lie, and violence:

> "The problem with people is there's never been a single time in human history where we've been a people with no war. Not one. Not one."

* **Definition of Malignancy:** Malignancy stems from severe isolation; a cell or individual separated from its system becomes life-threatening. * **Apoptosis:** The process of programmed cell death, where severely damaged cells dissolve cleanly to allow stem cells to regenerate new healthy tissue. * **Rogan's Counterpoint:** Conflict, violence, and flawed parenting are inherent to human freedom, making universal peace biologically and historically unrealistic.

---

[38:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2331s) Historical Peace, Telepathy, and the Evolution of Communication

Bush challenges Rogan's assertion that human history has never seen universal peace, citing the reign of King Solomon roughly 2,400 years ago as a single generation where global peace occurred. Rogan remains skeptical, questioning how King Solomon could possibly know what was happening in Morocco, Australia, or China without modern telecommunications.

When Rogan jokes that there was no 5G or Twitter to check on China 2,400 years ago, Bush suggests that early humans utilized advanced technology inherent to the human body itself—namely, full telepathic communication—and mentions ancient structures like the pyramids. Rogan agrees that humans may have once held an innate intuitive or mind-reading capability that was gradually muted as spoken language and written text developed.

Bush expands on this idea, outlining an 80,000-year decline in human communication bandwidth:

1. **Wide-Open Telepathy:** Direct, non-verbal transmission of thought and feeling between human bodies. 2. **Tonal Language:** Vocalizations and tones (similar to opera) that transmitted a full-body sensory experience beyond simple auditory words. 3. **Spoken Word:** Intellectualized communication directed straight to the mind, prioritizing efficiency and machine-like optimization at the expense of bodily feeling. 4. **Written & Digital Text:** Abstract representations of language, continuing down to digital text messages and modern emojis.

---

[42:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2569s) BioGeometry, Shape Transmissions, and Biological Resonance

As the discussion turns to emojis, Rogan mentions that producer Jamie Verno views emojis as modern hieroglyphs. Bush agrees with the comparison but distinguishes ancient hieroglyphs as precise energetic forms rather than simple abstract symbols. He introduces the work of Dr. Ibrahim Karim, an Egyptian researcher in his 80s who developed *BioGeometry*. Bush explains that specific geometric shapes found in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs and pyramid architecture interact directly with human biology, generating physiological responses such as reduced inflammation regardless of whether the viewer consciously understands the symbols.

Jamie searches online for scientific papers verifying these biological claims, finding quotes from Dr. Karim regarding energy fields, vibrational resonance, and spatial imprinting. Bush highlights the concept of *biosis*—the interconnected relationships that make living systems possible—to illustrate how biological systems permanently change when they interact.

Rogan agrees with the core principle that energy fields imprint upon one another, noting how critical it is to surround oneself with positive people: "Being around assholes is terrible for you." Bush concludes the segment by praising Rogan’s 16-year podcasting history as an open system of intellectual and biological "impregnation," driven by a relentless curiosity to challenge his own biology and evolve through continuous dialogue.

> "When two energy fields are in resonance and exchange information, something happens after the resonance is over. The two systems do not go back to their original state."

* **BioGeometry Founder:** Dr. Ibrahim Karim (Cairo, Egypt), developer of BioGeometry principles studying environmental shape resonance. * **Swiss 5G Project:** Bush notes Switzerland engaged Dr. Karim's methods to harmonize electromagnetic frequencies and 5G networks using geometric shapes. * **Biosis:** The underlying principle of interconnected, mutually supportive relationships necessary to sustain living systems.

[47:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2870s) The Genesis of the Podcast and Being an Antenna

Joe reflects on the early days of the podcast, sharing that it was never intended to be a business or a grand plan. In the beginning, it was purely recreational—a fun, community-driven project with friends to replicate the enjoyable dynamic of morning radio over the internet without making any money for years. Everything shifted around 2011 when Graham Hancock became one of his first major guests, alongside Anthony Bourdain. Having read *Fingerprints of the Gods*, Joe was a huge fan of Hancock's alternative history theories, even though his college-educated history friends were often offended and dismissed Hancock as a charlatan.

As viewership grew, Joe realized the podcast gave him a unique platform to bring on fascinating people, from high-profile figures like Neil deGrasse Tyson to knife makers and beekeepers. He emphasizes that he would love doing this even if it weren't a job and no one watched—just to sit across a table for hours, pick people's brains, and understand their motivations, passions, and inner thoughts. Joe views himself as an "antenna" for passionate people. To keep the process pure, there are no board meetings, executives, or corporate gatekeepers dictating the lineup; he books guests directly from his phone based purely on his genuine personal curiosity.

- Joe notes that he gets immense satisfaction from watching skilled craftspeople work with pride, such as cabinet makers obsessing over tight seams, sanding, staining, and polishing wood with microfiber cloths. - Zach Bush connects Joe's "antenna" metaphor back to Ibrahim Karim's concept: humans operate as biological antennas constantly receiving environmental information.

---

[52:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3133s) Rethinking Ancient History and the Mysteries of Egypt

Joe challenges the mainstream historical narrative that modern humans represent the most advanced civilization to ever exist, pointing to the pyramids of Egypt as proof that our current understanding is flawed. Traditional archaeology attempts to neatly fit these ancient monuments into conventional historical boxes, but the physical reality does not align. Mainstream estimates place construction around 2500 BC, but Joe notes there is no carbon dating for stone and no hieroglyphs detailing their actual construction or purpose. Furthermore, ancient sites show evidence of extreme erosion and complex older structures built beneath newer ones.

Joe highlights the sheer engineering scale involved, such as moving 1,000-ton monoliths over distances of 400 miles, as well as the alignment of 2.3 million stones perfectly to true cardinal directions (north, south, east, and west). He argues that modern civilization lacks the machinery to replicate such feats today, making the assumption that ancient Egyptians were primitive absurd. Dr. Zach Bush proposes that the pyramids were created by a living biological system using acoustic waveforms rather than mechanical technology, with Ibrahim Karim suggesting the energy driving these constructions originated from human bodies rather than heavy machinery.

- Joe points out that physical artifacts like core drills in Egyptian granite demonstrate that ancient builders possessed a technology capable of drilling at ridiculously high RPMs. - Zach Bush attributes this core drilling ability to the combination of water and biological energy working in harmony. - Bush asserts that humanity suffered a global "amnesia event" around 5,000 to 7,000 years ago, resulting in a sudden global loss of connection, intelligence, and high-level technology across cultures like the Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas. - Bush highlights the existence of massive underground labyrinths extending for thousands of kilometers worldwide, as well as ancient submerged pyramid structures off the coast of Japan that exceed the Egyptian pyramids in size.

---

[58:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3488s) Contextualizing Life, Energy Concentration, and Biosis

Dr. Bush outlines the fundamental evolution of energy concentration in physics and biology to contextualize how living systems develop intelligence. Stars generate massive amounts of energy through nuclear fission and fusion across billions of galaxies, but the biological innovation of chlorophyll created a system that concentrates light energy per cubic centimeter far beyond nuclear reactions. This light energy is passed through bacteria and fungi to support plant life, trees, and complex ecosystems. Higher concentrations of energy per cubic centimeter enable greater levels of internal communication, which Bush defines as *biosis*—the interconnected relationships necessary for life to co-create and collaborate.

The historical evolution of energy storage relies on carbon bonds. Sunlight is captured in strings of carbon to build carbohydrates and fatty acids, storing electromagnetic energy (photons) between carbon atoms. Fungi drastically accelerated this process by exuding digestive enzymes externally, turning the surrounding soil into an outside stomach and allowing vast mycelial networks (hyphae) to collaborate across miles as single-celled organisms.

- A major evolutionary leap occurred with the emergence of the mitochondria—ancient bacteria that entered human cells to drive respiratory energy production using oxygen and hydrogen, resulting in a 10-fold increase in light energy density. - The average human cell contains roughly 200 mitochondria, while complex neurons contain up to 2,000 mitochondria in their neural heads. - Mitochondria originated from a methane-producing bacterium swallowed by an archaebacterium, working together to move life past simple fermentation into complex multicellular organisms like protozoa, parasites, nematodes, and mammals. - Bush concludes that human biology—specifically the human gut and colon—contains more biodiversity and concentrated life than any other ecological niche on the planet, including the Amazon rainforest or coral reefs.

[01:03:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3814s) Human Intelligence, the "Antibiotic Era," and the Desiccation of Wheat

Dr. Zach Bush posits that human intelligence is not an isolated phenomenon generated by the brain, but rather that the human brain acts as an intricate "antenna" tuned into nature. He explains that the gut's neurobiology shows we have the most complicated biological antenna system on Earth. However, over the past 70 years, humanity entered the "antibiotic era"—beginning with penicillin in the 1940s and progressing into agricultural herbicides and pesticides—which actively destroys *biosis* (the interconnected relationships that create and sustain life).

Joe Rogan points out the absurdity of modern agricultural practices, particularly using herbicides like glyphosate not just as weedkillers, but as desiccants to prematurely dry out wheat crops for faster processing. Rogan expresses frustration that the food supply has become dependent on chemical poisons, noting that regulatory decisions often protect the profits of chemical and agricultural companies rather than public health. Bush adds that the system reliant on chemical-heavy food isn't just the agricultural economy, but the multi-trillion-dollar medical system that profits from treating the resulting chronic illnesses.

- **The Antibiotic Era:** Began in the 1940s with penicillin and expanded into global agricultural chemicals, shifting society toward killing microbial life rather than supporting it. - **Glyphosate as a Desiccant:** Sprayed directly onto crops like wheat right before harvest to dry them out rapidly, directly exposing the food supply to toxic chemicals. - **Economic Reliance on Chemical Food:** Regulatory bodies hesitate to ban widespread pesticides because corporate, agricultural, and pharmaceutical business models depend on this ecosystem.

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[01:07:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4054s) Bayer, Corporate History, and the Pasteurization Debate

Bush traces the deep historical roots of the chemical and pharmaceutical industries, explaining how Bayer was absorbed into IG Farben in Germany during the 1930s before being spun back out after World War II. During this era, researchers began studying the fundamental relationships between the microbiome, essential amino acids, and human biological output. Bush connects this mindset back to Louis Pasteur in the 19th century, whose work solidified the belief that nature and germs are inherently hostile to human health, giving rise to widespread sterilization practices like pasteurization.

Rogan and Bush debate the public narrative surrounding raw milk versus pasteurized milk. Rogan critiques sensationalized media reporting that misuses relative risk statistics to portray raw milk as extremely dangerous, when actual cases of severe illness from raw milk are statistically minute compared to standard foodborne illnesses.

> "The word antibiotic is truth in advertising. To be anti-biosis... is to be against, to disrupt, to destroy the interconnected relationships that make life possible."

- **Bayer and IG Farben:** IG Farben was the German chemical conglomerate that oversaw WWII-era chemical research; Bayer was reconstituted from it following the collapse of the Third Reich. - **Louis Pasteur's Germ Theory:** Popularized the worldview that microbes are enemies to be eliminated, establishing the rationale for pasteurizing and homogenizing natural food products. - **Raw Milk vs. Relative Risk:** Media reports often cite high percentage increases in risk (e.g., "860% more likely to get sick") to create panic, hiding the fact that actual yearly illness counts from raw milk are very low.

---

[01:11:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4278s) Foodborne Illness and the Precautionary Principle

Discussing the realities of food poisoning, Rogan notes that people frequently get sick from contaminated produce, particularly leafy greens and salads, often caused by agricultural runoff from industrial farms contaminating irrigation water. Bush shares a government project from the late 2010s that evaluated potential biological security threats to public salad bars. The study concluded that intentionally contaminating a salad bar was almost redundant because commercial salad bars already harbor virtually every known pathogen due to high public contact and poor handling.

When looking up data via Perplexity on which foods cause the most foodborne illness, the results highlight raw or undercooked poultry, ground beef, leafy greens, raw shellfish, and unpasteurized soft cheeses as primary vehicles for pathogens like *E. coli*, *Listeria*, and *Salmonella*.

- **Primary Food Poisoning Vectors:** Contaminated irrigation water runoff onto leafy greens, raw/undercooked poultry, ground beef, and shellfish. - **Salad Bar Security Study:** A late-2010s government assessment concluded commercial salad bars are inherently prone to pathogen accumulation due to physical contamination and standing produce environments.

---

[01:14:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4442s) The 1950s Green Revolution, Petrochemicals, and Modern Medicine

Bush outlines how the mid-20th-century approach to agriculture and medicine was shaped by the post-WWII petroleum surplus. Following World War II, energy markets had a massive oversupply of oil. Petrochemical and industrial interests, building on foundations laid early in the 20th century by figures like John D. Rockefeller, realized that petroleum carbon molecules could be re-engineered into profitable synthetic pharmaceuticals and agricultural chemicals.

Bush highlights the 1910 Flexner Report—funded by the Rockefeller Foundation—which discredited traditional herbal medicine and pushed medical education exclusively toward synthetic, patented carbon-molecule pharmaceuticals. He illustrates this commercial model with the chemotherapy drug **vincristine**: although originally a biological compound found in nature and produced by organisms like algae, it was isolated, synthetically manufactured, and marketed at astronomical prices rather than integrated into natural soil or diet systems.

> "Vincristine today is sold for $28,000 a gram. The same thing was done with oil... if we can take something that's worth 20 cents and turn it into $28,000 if we manipulate these molecules and then make a story of 'this treats a disease'... that's how the antibiotic, anti-cancer, anti-diabetes, anti-obesity, anti-everything has come about."

- **The Flexner Report (1910):** Commissioned report that restructured American medical education, shuttering natural and holistic institutions in favor of pharmaceutical-based medicine. - **Post-WWII Oil Surplus:** Driven by the need for new commercial markets, petroleum byproducts were repurposed into synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, and pharmaceutical drugs. - **Vincristine Economics:** A naturally occurring anti-cancer compound derived from biological sources that is isolated and sold synthetically for upwards of **$28,000 per gram**. - **Early Antibiotic Era:** Following penicillin's success against lethal infections like syphilis, antibiotics were heavily overprescribed throughout the 1940s and 1950s for routine ailments, setting the stage for modern microbial disruption.

[01:32:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5546s) Life as a Self-Regenerating Machine and the Human Antenna

Zach Bush outlines a philosophical vision of nature, emphasizing that biological life inherently possesses the capacity to overcome toxicity. Planet Earth has generated severe toxins since its inception—such as early sulfuric acid pools—yet biology continuously iterates, repairs, and regenerates through its unique capacity to concentrate light energy. This process yields increasing biodiversity and complexity, culminating in the human body as a specialized container designed to hold a maximum concentration of information and light energy. Reframing stress, Bush argues that when connected to nature, environmental friction and death are fundamental drivers of rebirth, imagination, and new life force.

Reflecting on his experiences in hospice care, Bush notes that near-death experiences reveal a universe deeply interconnected beyond human mental constructs or the five sensory systems. When a patient dips across the threshold, their sensory "antenna" opens completely, experiencing an intense influx of energetic information. Bush contends that if humanity could collectively feel this state of deep connection, addiction would cease, as he defines addiction as the behavioral consequence of an organism feeling abandoned by its infinite reality.

- **Definition of Nature:** Bush references the Oxford English Dictionary definition of nature—which distinguishes nature from humans and human creations—as evidence of humanity's self-imposed psychological separation from the natural world. - **Illusion of Abstract Systems:** He argues that money and medical interventions (such as IV vitamin C or peptide injections) are abstract human constructs rather than true sources of life and biological vitality. - **Predation and Indigenous Context:** Bush reinterprets predator-prey dynamics, citing indigenous perspectives where animals selectively offer themselves in a sacred relationship of exchange rather than pure violent conquest.

---

[01:39:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5979s) Debating Disease Outbreaks, Immunity, and European Colonization

Joe Rogan pushes back on the assertion that biological alignment alone protects against lethal disease, raising historical examples of massive population collapses. Rogan points to archaeological discoveries in the Amazon—such as those described around the Lost City of Z—where thriving, highly integrated ancient civilizations vanished roughly 200 years after initial European contact. The prevailing scientific explanation attributes this collapse to smallpox and other novel pathogens introduced by Europeans to populations lacking acquired immunity. Rogan notes that nomadic and indigenous groups frequently faced seasonal famines, compromised nutritional status, and severe resource constraints that left their immune systems vulnerable regardless of their spiritual or ecological integration.

> "If you introduce a new disease, a novel disease that they don't have an immunity to during that time, that could most certainly wipe them out despite the fact that they're living in nature. They don't have the resources that's required to keep a biological system perfectly functioning and healthy."

Bush responds by suggesting that the severe impact of colonizers was driven primarily by the acute imbalance and illness of the arriving Europeans themselves—who were malnourished from months on ships and detached from natural ecosystems for centuries—rather than just a straightforward pathogen spread. He argues that the sudden arrival of colonizers carrying a "scarcity mentality" and destructive technologies induced immense neurological stress and cortisol spikes in native populations. This psycho-spiritual trauma, according to Bush, disrupted the native populations' biological feedback loops and immune resilience, mirroring the structural disruptions seen when modern industrial items interrupt long-standing indigenous food ways.

- **Historical Architecture:** The discussion highlights how ancient cultures, such as the Aztecs, Incas, and Egyptians, designed pyramids aligned at precise $13^\circ$ angles mirroring celestial formations like Orion's Belt and the Pleiades star cluster. - **The Impact of Travel Conditions:** Rogan emphasizes the severe physiological strain suffered by early transatlantic sailors eating low-quality provisions over months, which compounded the spread of disease upon land contact.

[01:47:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6457s) Native Isolation, Pathogens, and the Aztec Sacrifice Debate

Zach Bush opens by reflecting on the visceral reaction humans experience in the presence of a sociopath—an immediate, instinctual sensing of danger where an "antenna goes up." He applies this metaphor to Indigenous populations during European colonization: facing alien forces shooting them, destroying their gardens, and riding unfamiliar animals sent their cortisol levels into overdrive, collapsing their gut microbiomes and immune systems. Bush argues that these populations succumbed to Western diseases not primarily due to the pathogens themselves, but because their fear, guilt, and broken connection with nature disrupted their energetic biological field.

Joe Rogan pushes back, pointing out that well before European contact, societies like the Aztecs engaged in extreme cruelty. Rogan cites the Spanish chronicler Bernal Díaz del Castillo, who documented that as many as 80,000 people were sacrificed over four days during the consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan. Rogan stresses that a civilization practicing mass ritual sacrifice can hardly be described as living in a balanced, harmonious relationship with nature. Bush counters that such accounts represent a European perspective projecting its own broken worldview onto an alien culture, admitting he cannot defend human sacrifice but offering to frame indigenous relationship dynamics differently based on his own experiences with modern tribal communities.

- **Historical Accounts:** Chronicler Diaz reported up to 80,000 human sacrifices over four days during Tenochtitlan's temple consecration. - **Root Cause of Disease:** Bush posits that fear, high cortisol, and loss of connection with nature drove immune failure rather than the mere presence of foreign microbes.

---

[01:50:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6609s) The Mesoamerican Ballgame and Ancient Megalithic Builders

To challenge standard historical narratives, Bush brings up the ancient Mesoamerican ballgame played by the Mayans and Aztecs. Players used a small ball that could be hit with any body part except their hands, aiming for a tiny stone hoop mounted high on massive pyramid arena walls. Bush notes that after games lasting for days, the victorious team's captain was traditionally beheaded. Rogan quips that this provided "not a lot of incentive to score," humorously explaining why the matches dragged on so long. When Rogan argues that fundamental human instincts always drive people to avoid death, Bush suggests that modern humans are veiled by five sensory limitations that obscure what happens beyond physical life.

The conversation pivots to the origin of ancient structures like the Aztec and Egyptian pyramids. Rogan and Bush note that the Aztecs did not claim to have built many of these massive monuments; rather, they inhabited existing structures, referring to places like Teotihuacan as the birthplace of the gods. Rogan describes visiting Chichén Itzá and marveling at its engineering, while acknowledging the predominant scientific theory that diseases wiped out these ancient American societies.

- **Mesoamerican Ballgame:** Played on large stone fields with small hoops barely larger than the ball; hands were forbidden, and victorious captains were traditionally sacrificed. - **Megalithic Origins:** Both speakers highlight that early civilizations often claimed to have inherited, rather than constructed, their grandest stone structures.

---

[01:53:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6804s) Rethinking Death, Tibetan Sky Funerals, and Hospice Care

Bush clarifies that he does not advocate for violence, but envisions a world where death is no longer feared as an endpoint, but revered as a spiritual evolution. Rogan brings up Tibetan sky funerals—where deceased bodies are left exposed on mountainsides to be consumed by vultures—as a natural, cycling back into the ecosystem. Rogan contrasts this with modern Western burial practices, where bodies are preserved with toxic embalming chemicals, jokingly adding that these chemicals make it possible for forensic investigators to exhumate bodies years later and discover *"Nana poisoned him."*

Drawing from his experience as a hospice physician, Bush describes witnessing patients "pierce the veil" as they approach death. In those final moments, patients realize their physical body is just a small story within a vast, interconnected universe. He explains that 10% of hospice patients experience dramatic spontaneous remissions—recovering from terminal illnesses, re-engaging with their families, and expressing new artistic creativity after glimpsing this interconnectedness.

> "On the other side of that veil is radical connectivity energetically. You feel everything. Stars, moonscapes, everything... This is that precious one moment where a human antenna gets the entire download and can still transmit it."

- **Hospice Remissions:** Bush notes that roughly 10% of the 80 terminal patients he admitted weekly recovered and were discharged after experiencing near-death realizations. - **Western Burial Critique:** Rogan and Bush criticize chemical embalming as an unnatural attempt to prevent the body from returning to nature.

---

[01:57:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7064s) Financial Systems vs. Natural Abundance

Bush praises Rogan for maintaining his connection to tangible, real-world pursuits—like mechanics, car building, and woodworking—despite acquiring massive wealth and fame. Mentioning his own home built in the woods of Virginia and his partner's village development project in Panama, Bush argues that society needs to move away from using money as the sole source of safety and shelter. He asserts that human biology was entirely resourced by nature without money, evolving from a single fertilized cell into trillions of cells powered by mitochondria that concentrate light thousands of times brighter than the sun.

Rogan grounds the argument in practical reality, asking how someone acquires tools like a circular saw to build a house without a monetary system. He outlines the complex industrial supply chains—from material science engineers and steel foundries to manufacturing factories, healthcare benefits, and union dues—required to produce modern tools. Bush responds by noting that ancient societies built lasting castles and pyramids without modern monetary systems, asserting that true innovation comes from natural human creative drive rather than financial incentives within an artificial matrix.

- **Cellular Energy:** Bush highlights that a human body consists of ~70 trillion cells and 14 quadrillion mitochondria operating without financial capital. - **Supply Chain Realities:** Rogan points out that specialized tools require complex networks of workers, designers, and resource extractors who depend on monetary compensation.

[02:01:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7318s) The Mystery of Ancient Technology and Lost Civilizations

Joe Rogan and Dr. Zach Bush discuss the origin and construction of ancient structures like the Great Pyramids. Rogan points out that modern society is trapped in the assumption that current technological innovation is the only path human civilization could have taken. He argues that ancient societies likely went in a completely different technological direction—one that was subsequently lost to history due to a major cataclysm roughly 11,000 to 12,000 years ago, giving rise to universal flood myths across various cultures.

Rogan expresses frustration with standard archeological explanations, such as the idea that ancient builders simply pushed massive stones using sand and basic ramps. He notes that modern science fails to explain how ancient civilizations carried 500-ton stones across hundreds of miles, cut perfectly symmetrical statues, or constructed complex underground systems. He highlights subterranean discoveries beneath pyramids, including massive columned structures and large metallic objects described by ancient historians like Herodotus, emphasizing that we must remain open-minded about what we truly know.

- Modern archaeology often underestimates ancient capabilities by attempting to fit them into crude, linear explanations. - A global cataclysm roughly 11,000+ years ago wiped out advanced technological knowledge, leading to a reemergence of society around 6,000 years ago. - Subterranean structures, LiDAR discoveries, and historical accounts (such as Herodotus writing about labyrinths greater than Giza) reveal engineering complexity beyond current understanding.

---

[02:06:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7614s) Experiential Feeling vs. Abstract Knowledge

Zach Bush highlights Rogan’s physical shift during the discussion, observing how Rogan looks upward when accessing deep thought and begins transmitting conviction through body language and presence rather than mere mental calculation. Bush contrasts the limitations of the intellectual mind with the broader awareness that comes from "feeling" reality directly. He shares how his own near-death experience—a car accident in 2010—completely shifted his perspective away from 17 years of strict academic training toward an experiential understanding of human biology and connection.

Bush asserts that relying solely on abstract intellectual frameworks produces disempowered versions of reality. When individuals move beyond the cognitive "knowledge base" and tap into direct sensory and physical experience, they access a vastly greater capacity for information processing.

- Relying strictly on mental narratives or abstract theories limits our understanding of complex cosmic and biological systems. - Near-death experiences often dismantle linear mental models, opening individuals up to a wider, experiential field of awareness.

---

[02:09:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7750s) Autism, Telepathy, and the Collapse of Abstract Systems

Dr. Bush proposes a paradigm shift regarding neurodivergence, suggesting that autism is not merely a disease to be managed, but an evolutionary neurological development. He argues that modern human systems—such as abstract monetary networks and a $5 trillion chronic disease management industry in the United States—have disconnected from nature and are heading toward systemic collapse. In response, human neurology is evolving beyond old cognitive filters and defense mechanisms.

He references projects like the "Telepathy Tapes" and observations of non-verbal autistic individuals demonstrating remarkable feats of memory and non-traditional communication. Bush describes how these individuals experience an ungated sensory reality, leaving them overwhelmed by the abstract, artificial environments of modern society while staying connected to an interconnected field of perception.

- The U.S. health system spends approximately $5 trillion annually on chronic disease management rather than true health, reflecting a system detached from biological reality. - "Sensory processing deficits" can be recontextualized as an un-gated mind that experiences reality without traditional cognitive filters. - Otto Warburg demonstrated in the 1920s that cancer is rooted in metabolic dysfunction, yet medical models often persist in treating it through linear, isolated interventions.

---

[02:12:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7953s) The Field Effect and Relational Healing in Clinical Practice

Sharing stories from his experience founding Revolution Health Center in 2010—a rural clinic in a small town of 550 people—Dr. Bush details his work with severely affected autistic children. He describes the intense suffering and sensory overload experienced by these children, who often resort to head-banging or self-soothing behaviors to narrow down overpowering sensory input to a single controllable signal.

Seeking alternative approaches, Bush introduced Emotion Code therapy, a technique utilizing magnets to address stored emotional energy. Because many severely affected children could not tolerate direct contact, the clinic began administering the therapy to the mothers instead. Over two years, the team observed that the children's symptoms improved significantly when their mothers and primary caregivers received emotional clearing. Bush concludes that these children act as highly sensitive "antennas" expressing the collective emotional field of their environment, drawing a parallel to how indigenous populations may have experienced the overwhelming intrusion of abstract European systems.

- Revolution Health Center was established in 2010 in a rural town of 550 people without significant financial resources. - Children with severe neurodevelopmental stress frequently absorb and reflect the emotional states of their surrounding environment and caregivers. - Treating the broader "field"—including mothers, relatives, and caregivers—resulted in measurable behavioral and clinical improvements in the children.

[02:16:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8204s) The Psychological Flood and the Realities of History

Zach Bush opens by reflecting on how human memory and historical trauma might operate on an energetic or neurological level. He asks whether ancient stories of catastrophic "floods" might describe an overwhelming collective trauma or psychological rupture—a moment when humanity felt completely separated from nature—rather than just a physical wall of water. Joe Rogan responds that while physical evidence strongly supports real cataclysms (such as the Younger Dryas impact theory), both ideas are not mutually exclusive; physical floods occurred, but other psychological or energetic disruptions could also have taken place.

``` COLONIAL & ECONOMIC TOLL ┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ Atrocities: Recorded by Bartolomé de las Casas (1500s) │ ├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┤ │ US Economic Sanctions: ~35M global deaths (40 yrs) │ └─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ ```

The conversation turns to European settlers arriving in the Americas. Joe highlights the extreme brutality of conquistadors as recorded by the 16th-century Spanish Dominican friar Bartolomé de las Casas, who detailed horrors like hacking off limbs and smashing infants on rocks when demands for gold were unmet. Rogan notes that this darker historical reality is why figures like Christopher Columbus should not be celebrated. Bush points out that this cycle of violence persists today through drug cartels and state power, citing a study published in *The Lancet* estimating that U.S. economic sanctions alone have caused roughly 35 million global deaths over a 40-year period without firing a shot.

* Bartolomé de las Casas originally participated in the colonial system before turning into a vocal critic and reformer against conquistador abuses. * Bush argues that true health assurance will never come from corporations or financial systems, but from human biology and the Earth.

---

[02:21:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8460s) Ancient Languages, Geometry, and Verbing Reality

Rogan and Bush debate the role of money in modern society and discuss the origin of the phrase "money is the root of all evil," which traces back to the New Testament (1 Timothy 6:10). This leads to a discussion on ancient languages—specifically Aramaic, ancient Hebrew, Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Farsi. Rogan shares how reading Rumi's poetry in Farsi gives him "goosebumps," to which Bush adds that ancient scripts transmit complex mathematical and geometric information rather than abstract symbols.

> "He has so much mathematical truth in a thing that's in the form. He's telling you geometry, he's telling you sacred geometry, the fabric of the universe in the form of a language that is not symbolic—it's a true depiction of information."

They explore how ancient Hebrew lacked separate numerical characters, meaning every word carried inherent mathematical values that were lost when translated into Greek, Latin, and modern English. Bush argues that modern English detached language from reality by relying heavily on static nouns. Indigenous cultures often describe nature using verbs—referring to a tree not as an isolated noun, but as "treeing." He critiques modern science for using a static, noun-based framework that isolates variables by severing their natural connections, contrasting it with the continuous flow of living systems.

---

[02:25:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8740s) The Human Genome and the 98.5% "Junk" DNA

Bush breaks down the history of the Human Genome Project to demonstrate how conventional science misunderstood human genetics. Initiated in 1992, researchers initially anticipated finding roughly 400,000 human genes to account for the body's estimated 400,000 proteins. Instead, when sequencing concluded, scientists discovered that humans possess only around 19,000 to 20,000 genes—fewer than a common flea.

``` GENETIC COMPARISON (Coding Genes) ┌──────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ Flea: ~30,000 genes │ │ Human: ~19,000 - 20,000 genes │ │ Fruit Fly: ~13,000 genes │ └──────────────────────────────────────────────┘ ```

Only about 1.5% of human DNA directly codes for human genes, leaving 98.5% classified for decades as "junk DNA." Bush points out that this non-coding DNA is meticulously preserved across generations. He explains that organelles like mitochondria utilize this shared genetic library inside the cell nucleus to synthesize proteins and reproduce every few days. From this perspective, human DNA functions less like a blueprint for an isolated species and more like a collective "antenna" or ecosystem holding genetic records for all life on Earth.

* Every human cell contains roughly one meter of DNA inside its nucleus. * Strung end-to-end, the DNA in a single human's estimated 50 to 70 trillion cells could wrap around the Earth's equator approximately 2 million times. * Scientists have discovered that the human genome can be rearranged in 178 pieces to fully map out the genetic sequence of a pig.

---

[02:31:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9080s) Ending the Antibiotic Era and the Next Renaissance

Bush concludes that human biology cannot be understood through isolation, which is why chemical interventions like antibiotics, herbicides, and pesticides have crippled human health and fertility by destroying internal ecosystem diversity. He argues that the 70-year-old "antibiotic era" is coming to an end out of necessity.

Looking forward, Bush envisions entering a "biological renaissance" similar to the historic European Renaissance, where human creative capacity, mind power, and artistic expression exploded unexpectedly as humanity reconnected to a broader biological truth.

[02:32:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9128s) The Human Antenna, Autism, and Sacred Technologies

Dr. Ibrahim Karim is recalling ancient Egyptian technology embedded in hieroglyphs—specifically waveform dynamics and their impact on human biology. Rather than inventing these concepts from scratch, he accesses them intuitively: sitting in cafes, he can instantly sketch wave shapes on paper napkins to explain specific diseases. Humans act like receiving antennas; autism represents an unfiltered, supercharged state of this neural antenna, remaining deeply integrated with nature rather than detached from it. In contrast to modern societal amnesia, indigenous groups have preserved an intact connection to this field over millennia.

* The Khoisan possess an unbroken oral history spanning roughly 100,000 years (punctuated only by a global period of amnesia between 11,000 and 7,000 years ago). * Khoisan elders exhibit experiential traits similar to those on the autism spectrum, such as communicating telepathically with forest systems or directly interpreting lunar cycles. * The upcoming human renaissance is driven by a biological reconnection, shifting humanity away from merely wondering how ancient monuments were built toward actively organizing matter again.

---

[02:34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9274s) Waveform Dynamics, Gravity, and the Pyramid Builders

The Pyramids of Giza were not constructed through conventional mechanical labor; rather, they were organized energetically through mind, frequency, and waveform resonance. By transmitting precise information into raw geological materials, ancient civilizations used vibrational frequencies to cut stone, manipulate gravity, and organize structures. This same foundational physics governs Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAPs).

Gravity is not an immutable law, but a relational phenomenon dependent on distance and mass ($m_1 m_2 / r^2$). When specific electromagnetic or acoustic waveforms are introduced between two interacting masses, they disrupt that gravitational relationship, creating anti-gravity effects. Modern science remains overly constrained by Newtonian mechanics—which reduces reality to strict action and reaction—whereas quantum physics reveals creation as an interplay of field polarities.

> "The pyramids were not built, they were organized... This was all an energetic expression. This is a frequency wavelength expression of something that was energetically already here."

---

[02:36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9394s) Overcoming Attention Span Myths and the Power of Curiosity

The current cultural shift is pushed by human neurology reaching its absolute limit; people can no longer sustain outdated societal narratives. Podcasting plays a role in this transition by pushing minds beyond their former boundaries through relentless curiosity. The field effect created when two curious individuals meet—referred to by Dr. Ibrahim Karim as a form of energetic "impregnation"—resonates deeply with listeners.

The widespread belief that modern humans have short attention spans is inaccurate; while short-form media can hijack focus, individuals display immense sustained attention for topics that truly interest them. Universal human curiosity is suppressed primarily through separation from nature, over-medication, and environmental disconnect.

* **Nature Deficit Disorder:** Disconnecting from nature blunts baseline human vitality and curiosity. * **Immune System Reset:** Spending three consecutive nights camping outdoors—without entering indoor structures—can reactivate T-cells, trigger stem cell production, and lower the biological age of the immune system by up to 30 years. * **Siberian Taiga Example:** Werner Herzog's documentary *Happy People: A Year in the Taiga* illustrates how native Siberians living off the land exhibit high happiness levels and virtually zero mental illness, existing as an integral part of their ecosystem.

---

[02:40:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9657s) Glyphosate, Mitochondrial Breakdown, and the Cascade of Chronic Disease

A direct cellular link exists between glyphosate exposure and the systematic collapse of human health. Mitochondria turn carbon chains from fatty acids and carbohydrates into light energy, generating baseline cellular energy measured in ATP. Within 30 minutes of exposure to just one part per million (ppm)—or even 10 parts per billion (ppb)—of glyphosate, mitochondrial ATP production drops sharply.

``` 1976: Glyphosate introduced into food supply │ ▼ 1980s: Metabolic collapse & Obesity epidemic │ ▼ Late 1980s: Type 2 Diabetes (Liver fat accumulation) │ ▼ 1990s: Widespread Food Allergies (e.g., Celiac / Gluten sensitivity via Gliadin) │ ▼ Mid-1990s: Autoimmune Diseases (Loss of cellular identity) │ ▼ Late 1990s: Neurological Crises (Autism, ADHD, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, MS, ALS) │ ▼ 2000s: Cancer Epidemic (Leukemias/Lymphomas, followed by solid tumors) │ ▼ 2010s: Global Infertility & Endocrine Disruption (110+ countries below replacement rate) ```

* **ATP Depletion:** Baseline control tissue produces roughly 1,600 picomoles of ATP per milligram, which rapidly collapses upon contact with glyphosate. * **Obesity Mechanism:** Obesity is not merely caused by excess calorie consumption, but by the failure to burn calories at the mitochondrial level due to chemical toxicity. * **Global Fertility Drop:** Over 110 countries currently fall below the population replacement threshold of 2.1 births per woman; the United States sits at approximately 1.6. * **Synergistic Toxicity:** Gliadin compounds in wheat interact synergistically with glyphosate residues to break down gut barrier integrity and metabolic function, mislabeled as simple gluten intolerance.

---

[02:46:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9961s) Embryos, Microbiomes, and Sexual Differentiation

Around 90 days into embryologic development, a human fetus—which begins in a sexually neutral state—requires a massive burst of cellular energy from its mitochondria to initiate sexual differentiation. The first 90 days of gestation are primarily dedicated to cultivating the internal microbial garden necessary to power this energetic shift. When environmental toxins disrupt mitochondrial ATP generation, the metabolic energy needed to complete sexual differentiation is diminished, contributing to developmental dysregulation.

[02:46:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10003s) Developmental Puberty Phases and Sex Differentiation

Dr. Zach Bush explains the profound biological transitions involved in human development, breaking down how a child moves from a "neutral" state toward sexual differentiation. Moving from neutral to male or female requires a massive energetic transition, which manifests through distinct stages of puberty throughout early life. The first puberty occurs at 90 days in the womb, followed by a late-phase intrauterine puberty, another at around ages four or five (where physical differences become noticeably visible), the classic puberty around ages 10 to 13, another around ages 18 to 21, and a final burst in the late 20s. These energetic discharges create polarity and govern literal neurological expression in the deep brain, shaping male and female behavioral traits.

Reflecting on his own children—a son and a daughter, who are now married, thriving adults—Dr. Bush notes how pre-programmed these developmental paths are. By 6 to 9 months of age, male traits start to display clear differences in behavior compared to girls at the exact same phase, illustrating deep biological programming as it differentiates from the center.

- **Stages of Energetic Puberty / Differentiation:** - 90 days in utero (first puberty) - Late phase in utero - Ages 4 to 5 (early physical differentiation) - Ages 10 to 13 (classic puberty) - Ages 18 to 21 - Late 20s (final burst)

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[02:48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10080s) Glyphosate, Chronic Disease, and Human Extinction

Addressing environmental toxins, Dr. Bush details the massive escalation of global glyphosate application from 1976 to 2020. Today, approximately 3 to 4 billion pounds of glyphosate—which acts as a potent antibiotic—are sprayed into global soils annually. He argues that pouring billions of pounds of antibiotics into the environment destroys the metabolic life force of the planet and our species, directly driving the 1990s chronic disease explosion, an ongoing collapse in human fertility, and widespread gender dysregulation.

Dr. Bush frames this ecological breakdown as the path toward species extinction: a loss of metabolic capacity to concentrate light energy and maintain biosis, which he defines as the "interconnected relationships that make life possible." As these biological relationships decline per cubic centimeter, the rate of repair falls behind the rate of injury. Everyday exposures, like eating gluten (which causes a slight impact on gut health), become far more damaging because the body has lost its baseline fidelity and restorative capacity.

- **Global Glyphosate Usage:** 3 to 4 billion pounds sprayed into global soils annually. - **Autism Trajectory Prediction:** Projections indicate 1 in 3 children may have autism by 2035 if systemic practices do not change. - **Underlying Biological Shift:** Extinction occurs when a species loses its capacity to concentrate light energy and maintain interspecies biosis.

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[02:49:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10157s) Reconnecting to Nature and Moving Beyond "Machine-Like" Human Behavior

To counter this trajectory, Dr. Bush outlines his past 15 years of work creating systems that fully support biology and widen human perception. Through initiatives like his online program, *Journey*, the goal is to help humanity step back into natural systems. He urges society to stop programming children into "machine-like behavior" and instead help them expand their sensory and intuitive "antenna" to re-learn what it feels like to exist "between heaven and earth."

Despite the severe environmental stressors, Dr. Bush remains optimistic about biological resilience, stating that "bodies are always going to win" and nature will inevitably reinvent herself out of whatever stressor acts upon her. Rather than forcing evolutionary shifts through neurodivergence like autism to escape an anti-nature, antibiotic environment, humans can proactively choose to restore their relationship with nature as a keystone species.

> "Our mechanical history, our anti-nature, antibiotic nature is going to come to an end because bodies are always going to win. Nature's always going to reinvent herself out of whatever stressor is pushing on her right at that moment."

---

[02:50:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10241s) Closing Thoughts, Biological Elegance, and Future Collaboration

As the episode draws to a close, Joe Rogan asks Dr. Bush where listeners can find his work. Dr. Bush points viewers to his website, `zachbushmd.com`, and mentions his book, *Biological Elegance*, emphasizing that it will not be sold on Amazon or through abstract financial systems. He emphasizes that his mission isn't about collecting money or acquiring passive followers, stating, "I don't want followers. I want builders. I want creators."

Rogan commends Dr. Bush for his work and efforts in pushing people toward these solutions, sharing how much he enjoyed the conversation and inviting him back for a future episode. Dr. Bush expresses his gratitude and eagerness to return as the show fades out to its closing music.

## Notable quotes > [01:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=60s) You're not an isolated system. And so if coffee is part of a complex ecosystem of your microbiome, the soil systems of your body, then it's going to supercharge you into health. But if coffee sits there as a drug that is bypassing the felt sense of being human, then you're probably undermining your potential to be alive fully... — Zach Bush

> [10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=604s) Numbers that you don't even feel. The numbers go up, they go down, you don't even notice it, but you feel everything as a person... For whatever weird reason, we've been tricked into thinking that numbers are more valuable than the feelings. — Joe Rogan

> [32:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1926s) Because you can patent a molecule that doesn't exist in nature. — Zach Bush

> [35:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2116s) The problem with people is there's never been a single time in human history where we've been a people with no war. Not one. Not one. — Joe Rogan

> [42:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2569s) When two energy fields are in resonance and exchange information, something happens after the resonance is over. The two systems do not go back to their original state. — Zach Bush

> [01:07:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4054s) The word antibiotic is truth in advertising. To be anti-biosis... is to be against, to disrupt, to destroy the interconnected relationships that make life possible. — Zach Bush

> [01:14:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4442s) Vincristine today is sold for $28,000 a gram. The same thing was done with oil... if we can take something that's worth 20 cents and turn it into $28,000 if we manipulate these molecules and then make a story of 'this treats a disease'... that's how the antibiotic, anti-cancer, anti-diabetes, anti-obesity, anti-everything has come about. — Zach Bush

> [01:39:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5979s) If you introduce a new disease, a novel disease that they don't have an immunity to during that time, that could most certainly wipe them out despite the fact that they're living in nature. They don't have the resources that's required to keep a biological system perfectly functioning and healthy. — Joe Rogan

> [01:53:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6804s) On the other side of that veil is radical connectivity energetically. You feel everything. Stars, moonscapes, everything... This is that precious one moment where a human antenna gets the entire download and can still transmit it. — Zach Bush

> [02:21:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8460s) He has so much mathematical truth in a thing that's in the form. He's telling you geometry, he's telling you sacred geometry, the fabric of the universe in the form of a language that is not symbolic—it's a true depiction of information. — Zach Bush

> [02:34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9274s) The pyramids were not built, they were organized... This was all an energetic expression. This is a frequency wavelength expression of something that was energetically already here.

> [02:49:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10157s) Our mechanical history, our anti-nature, antibiotic nature is going to come to an end because bodies are always going to win. Nature's always going to reinvent herself out of whatever stressor is pushing on her right at that moment. — Zach Bush

> [02:50:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10241s) I don't want followers. I want builders. I want creators. — Zach Bush

## Mentioned Zach Bush, Joe Rogan, Hunter S. Thompson, Josh Dubin, Innocence Project, Ike Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice, Elon Musk, Ketone IQ, DARPA, Target, Bill Twist, Lynn Twist, The Hunger Project, Achuar, King Solomon, Dr. Ibrahim Karim, BioGeometry, Jamie Verno, Graham Hancock, Anthony Bourdain, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Bayer, IG Farben, Louis Pasteur, John D. Rockefeller, Flexner Report, Rockefeller Foundation, Bernal Díaz del Castillo, Herodotus, Otto Warburg, Revolution Health Center, Bartolomé de las Casas, The Lancet, Human Genome Project, Werner Herzog, Pyramids of Giza, Happy People: A Year in the Taiga, Journey, Biological Elegance, Amazon, Perplexity

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio)

中文简报

Zach Bush警告：草甘膦与合成药物威胁人类走向灭绝工业化农业、对合成药物的依赖以及企业与自然的脱离，正在加速全球健康状况恶化，并在数十年内威胁人类生存。 Zach Bush做客Joe Rogan的播客节目，探讨了现代社会结构、抽象经济体系以及抗菌化学干预手段如何使人类与自然生物系统脱节。对话深入探讨了古老技术、原住民生态智慧、草甘膦等环境毒素以及现代文明面临的健康危机。Bush将人类当前的发展轨迹描述为一个集体的“临终关怀时刻”，认为这带来了一个通过重新连接自然与生物能量来实现系统性重生的契机。 Zach Bush 认为现代还原论医学将人体视为孤立系统，而人类当前正面临物种层面的“临终关怀时刻”（hospice moment），需要摆脱非黑即白的二元冲突，回归与自然生态的整体融合。 (3:21) 阿丘亚尔（Achuar）等原住民群体展现了人类作为“关键物种”丰富生态多样性的能力，但现代工业引入的高果糖玉米糖浆与商业抽象概念，正迅速打破他们数万年来的自给自足生态平衡。 (26:47) 食品与医药企业通过外消旋反应制造自然界不存在的镜像分子（如高果糖玉米糖浆）以获取专利商业利益，却导致人体肝脏将其转化为炎性甘油三酯，诱发慢性疾病与神经炎症。 (32:06) 结合生物几何学（BioGeometry）与吉萨金字塔等巨石工程的讨论，Bush 质疑了传统历史断代，认为远古文明可能掌握了基于声波波形、空间形态频率及生物能量共振的高阶建造技术。 (42:49) 人类肠道与大脑神经系统构成了接收自然信号的高度精密天线，但二战后抗生素与草甘膦等农业化学品的普及，正系统性破坏维系生命演化的共生系统（biosis）。 (63:34)

Reading summary

Physician Dr. Zach Bush argues that modern society's chronic physical and cultural ailments stem from a fundamental detachment from nature, driven by corporate abstractions, petrochemical medicine, and industrial agriculture. He frames humanity's current era as a collective "hospice moment" that necessitates moving away from isolated, machine-like behaviors toward biological interconnectedness. The Antibiotic Era and Chemical Disruption (63:34) Bush traces modern chronic illness to what he terms the "antibiotic era," which began with 1940s penicillin and expanded after World War II as surplus petroleum carbons were re-engineered into synthetic pharmaceuticals and agrochemicals. Referencing the 1910 Flexner Report, Bush claims medical institutions favored isolated, patentable compounds—such as the chemotherapy agent vincristine at $28,000 per gram—over integrated biology. In agriculture, widespread chemical use like glyphosate (applied at an estimated 3 to 4 billion pounds annually worldwide) functions as an environmental antibiotic that degrades soil vitality and gut microbiomes, disrupting what Bush defines as "biosis," or the relationships sustaining life. Joe Rogan highlights the hazards of modern food systems, noting that regulators often protect chemical corporate profits while agricultural runoff and routine chemical desiccants undermine nutritional integrity. While Rogan cites empirical concerns regarding foodborne pathogens, Bush contends that systemic chemical toxicity impairs cellular mitochondrial energy and light-concentration capacity, arguing that chronic metabolic disease and declining fertility are downstream effects of this ecological rupture. Corporate Abstraction, Isolation, and Malignancy (1:48) Bush and Rogan critique modern workplace environments for institutionalizing machine-like performance metrics, conditioning workers to prioritize abstract financial figures over direct bodily feeling. Drawing on his background in palliative medicine, Bush notes that dying patients do not look back on office labor, as abstract metrics fail to integrate into human soul experience. Comparing societal disconnection to cellular pathology, Bush posits that a cancer cell is "the loneliest cell in a human body," arguing that cells turn malignant when communication with their surrounding ecosystem breaks down, just as individuals severed from community can display sociopathic behavior. Rogan pushes back against this model, arguing that sociopathy and human violence have existed consistently throughout history, meaning ideal conditions alone cannot eliminate cruelty. Bush counters that industrial incentives exacerbate these fractures, pointing out how chemical synthesis through racemic reactions—such as in high-fructose corn syrup—creates mirror molecules absent in nature solely to secure commercial patents, burdening the human liver and promoting systemic inflammation. Indigenous Ecological Stewardship and Keystone Roles (23:46) Bush challenges modern perceptions of wilderness by framing indigenous communities as humanity functioning in its proper role as an ecological keystone species. He points to the Amazon basin, stating it is not an unmanaged jungle but a massive, 40,000-year-old food forest maintained by hundreds of native nations. Using the Achuar tribe along the Ecuador-Peru border as an example, Bush describes how they maintained ecological balance for millennia by limiting village sizes to 120 individuals, rotational gardening across distinct micro-climates, and intentionally burning and rebuilding homes every decade to renew domestic energy. Bush notes that following first contact in 1996, the introduction of missionary schools, refined sugars, outboard boat motors, and monetary commerce rapidly degraded the Achuar's traditional self-sufficiency, cultivating an artificial sense of poverty within an abundant biome. While Rogan acknowledges the historical devastation caused by European contact and introduced diseases, Bush emphasizes that replacing native ecological fidelity with abstract economic dependency rapidly collapses human physical and social resilience. Neurological Antennas, Neurodivergence, and Expanded Perception (129:10) Bush proposes that the human nervous system acts as an antenna tuned into nature's information field rather than a standalone cognitive engine. Under this framework, he suggests that autism and sensory processing differences represent an evolutionary adaptation toward an unfiltered, ungated neurological capacity rather than simple impairment. At his Revolution Health Center clinic established in 2010, Bush observed that addressing emotional stress in primary caregivers through energetic therapies corresponded with symptom relief in autistic children, illustrating what he describes as biological and emotional field effects. Bush links this heightened sensitivity to hospice observations, where patients nearing death frequently report a collapse of sensory boundaries and deep energetic connectivity. Highlighting that 98.5% of human DNA does not code for human genes and was historically dismissed as "junk," Bush argues that the human genome operates as a shared biological antenna for life on Earth, predicting that humanity will exit its mechanistic isolation through a broader biological renaissance. While Dr. Bush envisions an inevitable biological restoration rooted in nature's cellular resilience, Rogan repeatedly challenges this idealism with historical realities, citing endemic warfare, lethal novel pathogens, and the complex industrial supply chains required to manufacture modern technology. The dialogue leaves unresolved whether human society can realistically dismantle its abstract financial and industrial frameworks without abandoning the material infrastructure that sustains contemporary civilization.

精炼阅读摘要

医学专家扎克·布什（Zach Bush）在对话中主张，现代人类因沉迷于抽象指标、石化医药与化学农业而严重背离自然共生系统，当前社会正步入类似临终关怀的文明转型期；乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）则多次提出质询，强调反社会人格、暴力历史以及维系现代复杂分工所必需的物质现实，对纯粹的生态理想主义构成现实制约。文明的机械异化与“物种临终时刻” (7:15) 布什指出，现代职场与社会体制长久以来将人类塑造成追求机械产出的工具，以抽象绩效和数字遮蔽了真实的身体感受。他在临床临终关怀中观察到，患者在弥留之际无一追忆办公室劳作，表明现代工作模式脱离了深层的生命意义。布什据此提出假说，认为已有约30万年历史的人类文明已接获自身的“临终诊断”，正经历物种层面的临终关怀阶段；他认为若人类能超越二元对立的冲突思维，便有望迎来类似10%临终患者意外康复的集体转折。针对布什将恶性肿瘤与反社会人格皆归咎于“生命孤立失联”的观点，罗根提出强烈反驳。罗根以其播客嘉宾获释后残忍分尸的真实案例以及历史上阿兹特克的大规模活人祭祀为例，指出反社会倾向与暴力残杀是人类演化中长期存在的客观阴暗面，无法单凭形而上学的包容或理想化的生态联结予以消解。原住民生态智慧与现代抽象商业的冲击 (23:46) 布什将原住民群体定义为“关键物种中的关键物种”，认为健康的人类活动本能地富集生态多样性。他指出，亚马逊雨林实为土著民族管理培育了约4万年的巨型食物森林，而非原始荒野。以1996年才首次与工业世界接触的阿丘阿尔（Achuar）部落为例，该族群曾通过将村落规模严格限制在120人以内、每十年主动焚毁并重建住宅等习俗维持生态自足，历史上毫无贫困概念。然而，现代商业的渗透在短短数十年内瓦解了这一平衡。布什以传教学校分发的盒装苹果汁为例，指出合成高果糖玉米糖浆等经专利化修改的外来分子不仅扰乱了机体代谢、诱发炎症与心血管病，更在心理上打破了原住民的丰足认知，使其陷入对外部物资与金钱的匮乏焦虑。罗根则提醒，历史上的土著群体同样受制于季节性饥荒与资源限制，当欧洲殖民者带来天花等全新病原体时，缺乏获得性免疫的原住民仍难免遭遇毁灭性的人口崩溃，不应过度美化其抗病机制。 “抗生素时代”、石化医学与农药危机 (63:34) 布什回顾了20世纪中叶以来的医药与农业演进，批判以杀灭微生物为核心的“抗生素时代”。他指出，1910年由洛克菲勒资助的《弗莱克斯纳报告》（Flexner Report）排挤了传统天然医学，推动现代医疗转向依赖二战后过剩石油化工资源的专利合成药物；拜耳（Bayer）等源自法本公司（IG Farben）的化工集团与路易·巴斯德（Louis Pasteur）的细菌敌对论共同强化了这种“对抗自然”的商业模式，高价专利药物（如长春新碱售价达每克28,000美元）取代了基于整体共生关系的防治理念。在农业领域，这种对抗思维导致每年有30亿至40亿磅草甘膦等除草剂被喷洒入全球土壤，甚至被滥用为小麦催干剂。布什强调，广谱化学毒素系统性摧毁了土壤微生物与人体肠道菌群，导致修护能力落后于损伤速度，直接推高了1990年代以来的慢性病浪潮、生育力滑坡与发育异常；他预测若不对化学农业加以遏止，到2035年每3名儿童中就可能出现1名自闭症患者。人体天线假说、基因库与神经多样性 (129:10) 在探讨人类生理机制时，布什提出人类大脑与肠道神经系统实质上是一具接收自然能量场的“生物天线”。他援引人类基因组计划的结论指出，人类仅拥有约19,000至20,000个编码基因（少于跳蚤的约30,000个），长期被归类为“垃圾DNA”的98.5%非编码序列实为代代严密保留的共有生命信息库。他据此推测，古埃及象形文字与巨石建筑可能运用了基于声波与几何共振的波形技术，而非机械工程。布什进一步将自闭症等神经多样性重构为机体演化中的未设防状态：这类个体的神经系统缺乏传统的感官认知过滤机制，因而在充斥人造物与化学污染的现代环境中极易过载崩溃，但也表现出对广阔感知场的高度敏感。罗根对此类假说抱持审慎态度，重申现代工具制造依赖精密的基础设施、供应链与工业分工，如何在维系现代技术成果的同时克服对人性的机械化异化，仍是缺乏现成方案的复杂课题。本期对话呈现了扎克·布什将细胞生物学、临床观察与替代历史融合的生态世界观，揭示了工业化农业与石化医药背离自然共生所带来的健康代价；然而，其关于远古波形科技、全人类通灵及“疾病主要源自能量失衡而非外来病原体”等推论，频繁受到罗根关于物质历史记录、人性暴力事实与现代工业分工现实的审视与质疑，反映出生态理想主义与经验现实主义之间的持续张力。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 本期节目由频道 PowerfulJRE 于 2026 年 7 月 22 日发布在 YouTube 平台上。内科、内分泌与临终关怀专家，同时也是再生农业非营利组织 Farmer’s Footprint 与 Seraphic Group 创始人的扎克·布什（Zach Bush, MD）重返播客，与乔·罗根展开深度对谈。 ## TL;DR 节目围绕人类健康、生命微生态、意识演变与现代文明的异化展开了广泛探讨。布什医生深入剖析了现代化学农业（特别是草甘膦的泛滥）、对抗医学以及石化资本对人体微生物群和线粒体呼吸的系统性摧毁，指出自闭症、慢性病爆发与全球生育率断崖的底层机制。与此同时，两人激烈辩论了原住民生态智慧、金字塔与失落史前科技、超人类主义及自由意志的局限，最终指出唯有打破机械化还原论思维、摆脱对工业体系的盲从并重新作为“生物天线”连接自然，人类文明才能在当前的物种成熟危机中实现自愈与蜕变。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对谈兼具宏大形而上的哲学玄思与脚踏实地的科学解构，气氛在深沉沉思与激烈观点交锋之间不断切换。扎克·布什展现出临终关怀医师特有的慈悲、敏锐与诗意叙事风格，频频抛出颠覆常规认知的场域理论和生态隐喻；而乔·罗根则扮演了务实的现实主义怀疑者，不断用人类幽暗残暴的历史事实、现代工业复杂协作逻辑对浪漫化原住民叙事发起犀利质询。听众仿佛置身于一场横跨数万年文明兴衰、深入细胞线粒体光能宇宙的心智震荡之中，既能感受到对当代生态危机的刺骨警醒，又能体会到回归生命本真的振奋与敬畏。 ## Bulletin - [02:40:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9653s) 草甘膦与线粒体损伤危机：实验表明仅 1 ppm 浓度的草甘膦在 30 分钟内即可阻断线粒体 ATP 生成，布什警示全球滥用农药正引发代谢雪崩与神经发育异常，若不扭转生态恶化，预计到 2035 年自闭症发病率将攀升至 1/3。 - [01:29:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5358s) 修复速率与切尔诺贝利奇迹：切尔诺贝利高辐射区田鼠与狼体内上调了能分解放射性物质的假单胞菌且未患癌症，证明生命的抗病公式在于“修复速率高于损伤速率”，而非环境的绝对无毒。 - [01:55:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6920s) 临终关怀中的 10% 自愈现象：临终病房数据显示约 10% 的重症患者在消除恐惧、接纳生命整体并重新张开内在“生物天线”后发生奇迹自愈并健康出院。 - [02:25:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8750s) 人类基因组颠覆与非编码区真相：人类仅拥有约 1.9 万个编码蛋白质基因，占 98.5% 曾被称为“垃圾 DNA”的区域实为接收环境信号与跨代调控的核心天线网络。 ## Key takeaways - [04:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=254s) 人类文明当前正面临物种成熟期的“临终关怀时刻”，唯有如临终者般彻底整合并接纳过往的创伤与破碎，方能迎来系统性觉醒与物种自愈。 - [14:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=842s) 生命的生物性与自我修复能力在底层逻辑上远超机械，超人类主义与机械义肢是脱离生命维度的抽象幻觉，技术应当回归服务生命本真。 - [23:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1427s) 人类是生态系统中的关键物种，亚马逊雨林原是原住民营建数万年的共生食物森林，脱离自然活力的货币抽象化是撕裂部落与生态的根源。 - [34:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2083s) 癌细胞本质是丧失微环境信号交流的“最孤独细胞”，其孤立状态与社会中的反社会人格同构，重建信息互联与滋养可促进其修复或温和凋亡。 - [43:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2626s) 生物几何学表明特定形态波形可诱发生理调和并改善电磁环境，能量场在共振交互后会产生不可逆的振动印记，推动系统持续演化。 - [01:03:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3799s) 抗生素与化学农业开启了对抗自然的“抗生时代”，对微生物的全面剿灭摧毁了人体结肠这一最高密度共生系统，直接导致自闭症与慢性病激增。 - [01:12:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4364s) 受洛克菲勒财团支持的 1910 年《弗莱克斯纳报告》排挤了传统草药与整体医学，使专利石化衍生药物确立了垄断性的对抗医学霸权。 - [01:29:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5358s) 健康的核心取决于“修复速率是否高于损伤速率”，完备的土壤微生物与生态连接能够赋予生物体降解人造毒素并实现代谢重组的能力。 - [01:55:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6920s) 临终病房中约 10% 的绝症患者在放下心理防御与恐惧后激活深层感知并重获新生，印证了意识觉醒对生理病理逆转的巨大影响。 - [02:07:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7668s) 自闭症谱系人群并非病理缺陷，而是文明抽象化末期出现的去过滤“全开放天线”，极易共振并放大照料者与外部环境的未愈创伤场。 - [02:25:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8750s) 人类编码基因数量甚至少于跳蚤，人体实际上是多物种共生基因的大型档案库，98.5% 的非编码 DNA 承担着跨代调控天线的功能。 - [02:40:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9653s) 欧美广泛爆发的非酒精性脂肪肝、糖尿病及麸质过敏本质是草甘膦中毒导致的线粒体产能枯竭，并非单一食物成分本身的过敏。 - [02:48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10080s) 全球每年向土壤倾倒数十亿磅广谱抗菌化学品，若不改变对抗自然的机械化模式，预计到 2035 年儿童自闭症发病率将急剧升至 1/3。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=14s) 咖啡争议与孤立系统的认知误区节目刚开场，扎克·布什（Zach Bush）医生选择只喝水，并提到自己一直没搞懂怎么喝咖啡，平时更倾向于喝茶。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）顺势抛出了公众长久以来的困惑：咖啡到底是有益的抗氧化圣品，还是会让人脱水、摄入过量咖啡因的有害物质？布什医生指出，人类认知即将迎来一次重大演进——停止将大自然赋予的任何物质妖魔化，转而审视我们自身与该物质之间的“关系”。他认为决定咖啡好坏的根本在于人与它的互动方式，以往那些层出不穷的流行饮食之所以缺乏扎实的科学支撑，正是因为科学界总习惯把人体当成一个孤立封闭的系统去研究单一化学成分的影响。布什医生进一步阐述，人体本质上是一个复杂的生态系统，咖啡如果与肠道微生物菌群、体内的土壤微生态相融合，就能极大地激发健康潜能；但如果人们将咖啡单纯当作一种麻痹感受、绕过人类真实体验的药物，它就会阻碍人充分活出生命力的潜能，沦为对生活的逃避或分心。 ### [01:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=108s) 办公室体制与人类行为的机器化驯化罗根调侃咖啡是职场中唯一被免费提供的成瘾药物，布什医生对此提出了更深层的剖析：办公室真正提供并强化的药物，实际上是基于绩效的“机器化奖励系统”。人类的大脑本就具备控制行为所需的全部神经化学物质，而过去150年来建立的现代办公环境，一直在系统性地奖赏如机器一般的规训行为，从而塑造了当今人类社会的异化面貌。结合自己作为临终关怀（Hospice）专科医生的从医经历，布什医生分享了一个震撼的现象：在他陪伴过的数千张临终病床前，从未有任何一个人在生命最后时刻提起过自己在办公室度过的任何一天。即便每周为此消耗四十个小时甚至换来巨额财富，那些日子在生命的终点都无法被整合进灵魂的核心体验中。罗根也感慨，社会文化甚至通过媒体不断美化这种异化——每天做着厌烦的苦工却咬牙坚持的人被奉为平民英雄，而在后院写诗的漫游者却被鄙视为嬉皮士和无所事事之徒。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 办公室文化与人类生命体验异化流程 accDescr: 展示现代职场奖励系统如何使人机器化，并在生命终点导致体验断裂的过程 subgraph System["现代职场规训系统"] A["神经化学奖赏与绩效考核"] --> B["驯化机器化行为模式"] B --> C["过度依赖咖啡因维持机能"] end subgraph Disconnection["生活体验断裂"] C --> D["每周耗费40小时于机械劳动"] D --> E["压抑真实的人类感知与系统联结"] end subgraph Hospice["临终整合时刻"] E --> F["临终病榻回顾人生"] F --> G["办公室岁月在灵魂记忆中完全空白"] end ``` ### [04:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=254s) 临终关怀视角：物种演化与“一切皆是完美” 罗根提到食物等成瘾物常被人们用作对抗生活挫败的心理拐杖，布什医生随即将话题推向整场对话的核心观点。他表示在罗根主持了上千期播客的积累之后，这期节目迎来了前所未有的颠覆性对话——核心命题即是：“一切皆是完美”（Everything is perfect）。布什医生解释，当前人类所面临的并非多重危机（polycrisis），而是一个物种成熟过程中的“临终关怀时刻”。相比早年在重症监护室（ICU）每天与死神搏斗且不断遭遇失败的挫败感，转入临终关怀科让他获得了前所未有的喜悦：胜利不再是单纯苟延残喘延长寿命，而是对整个人生经历的彻底整合与接纳。在生命的最后几分钟，人们往往会超越大脑五感的局限，放下受害者与加害者、拯救者三位一体的极化幻象，忽然领悟到一生的破碎、疏远、失望与不安全感都是为了体验本身而存在。这种对人类全部情感经验的接纳，是灵魂最为独特珍贵的造化。布什医生认为，以现有形态存在了30万年的人类文明如今也已拿到“临终诊断书”，大概只剩下几十年的时间。只要人类放下彼此对立攻讦的二元极化硬币，便能在物种层面迎来顿悟时刻；正如临终关怀中有约10%的病人不仅没有离世，反而痊愈出院开启崭新生命一样，人类也将迎来蜕变。 - 临终回顾的关键不在于外在指标（如事业是否显赫、子女是否顺从），而在于是否完整感受了人类所能体验到的一切情感。 - 临终关怀医学的统计数据显示，约有10%被宣判进入临终期的患者并未死亡，反而奇迹般好转并重获新生。 ### [08:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=481s) 现实的残酷撕裂：反社会人格与极端暴力面对布什医生的诗意与终极乐观主义，罗根提出了极其尖锐的现实反驳：这种视角只有在不存在反社会人格者（Sociopaths）的前提下才成立。社会中确实存在一部分心智结构与他人完全无法和谐共处的个体，并且他们绝无改变的可能。为了证实这一黑暗现实，罗根讲述了一起亲历的真实惨剧。罗根长期与好友乔希·杜宾（Josh Dubin，曾就职于“洗冤工程”（Innocence Project），现任职于艾克·珀尔马特法律正义中心（Ike Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice））合作，致力于为被误判或量刑畸重的人群呼吁减刑与翻案。此前曾有一名年轻时因涉毒和袭击被判处长达25年刑期的当事人，在提前获释后受邀登上播客分享牢狱遭遇。然而令人毛骨悚然的是，这名男子在节目录制结束后不久，便前去寻仇并残忍杀害了一名与其有过节的男子，甚至将受害者斩首、戴上假发企图伪装潜逃，将残酷冰冷的暴力赤裸裸地摆在现实面前。 ### [09:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=576s) 走出社会叙事的规训：死前无人后悔工作太少对话承接上一段关于人性恶意的探讨。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出，现实中充斥着冷血的反社会人格者，不能天真地认为“一切都很完美”——对于那些遭遇飞来横祸的受害者而言，这种经历毫无完美可言。然而，现代文明却建立在一套极其荒谬的叙事之上：它将做人的意义狭隘地定义在写字楼办公、朝九晚五和 401(k) 退休金计划之中，完全脱离了真实的生命体验。扎克·布什医生（Zach Bush, MD）对此深表认同，罗根强调，任何人在走向生命终点时，绝不会躺在病床上感慨“我真希望自己当初能多加点班”。罗根认为，理想的生存状态是找到真正热爱的事业，让工作不再是苦役，而是充满乐趣与探索欲的自然流露。然而，现行体制却从童年起就对人们进行恐吓式编程：孩子们从小被警告一旦年满 18 岁就必须找一份枯燥无味的工作谋生，如果不读大学人生就会沦为一场灾难。这种恐惧教育将人异化为螺丝钉，彻底扼杀了与生俱来的好奇心。 - 现代社会将人类价值绑定在办公室劳作、文书报表与退休账户等抽象概念上，遮蔽了真正的生命感知。 - 临终关怀的经验一再证明，没有任何人会在死前遗憾自己工作时间不够长。 - 传统的教育体制本质上是恐惧驱动的编程，用“生存危机”压制了下一代对生命本真意义的探索。 --- ### [11:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=664s) 被数字绑架的感官与 AI 带来的生存解放随着人工智能的发展，全民基本收入（UBI）乃至埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）所描绘的“全民高收入（Universal High Income）”概念不断升温。罗根设想，如果未来的物质与财富充裕到政府每年给每个人发放数十万美元，人类彻底摆脱了为糊口而工作的重担，许多人反而会陷入不知所措的虚无。他直言，这种“不知道闲下来该做什么”的迷茫，正是现代教育体系的巨大失败——学校只教会了人们紧盯抽象的账户数字，却未曾引导人们去感知生活、探索未知、结识同伴或体验天地之美。扎克·布什医生赞同这是“给全人类最关键的警醒”。人类的肉体唯一能够真实响应的是“感受（feeling）”，但文明却诱使大众陷入对“数字”的病态执念。金钱从实体货币转移到银行账户，再变成云端闪烁的代码，大众被毫无温存的冰冷数字所操纵。罗根畅想，眼下或许正处于历史的关键节点：一方面越来越多的人觉醒并意识到当下的生活模式毫无意义，另一方面 AI 的崛起正在重构基础设施、接管繁重体系。如果技术真能剥离所有的机械劳作，人类或许终于能够摘掉面具，重新回归本真。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代人类异化与AI可能带来的解放路径 accDescr: 展现从传统教育的数字执念转向技术替代机械劳动后回归生命感知的逻辑流 subgraph Trap["异化困境"] A["恐惧驱动的教育体系"] --> B["追求抽象数字 (401k/银行账户)"] B --> C["失去真实身体感知与好奇心"] end subgraph Disruption["技术拐点"] D["AI 与自动化爆发"] --> E["承接繁琐体系与基础设施"] E --> F["全民高收入 (物质极大丰裕)"] end subgraph Liberation["回归本真"] C -.-> G["存在危机：不知如何度日"] F --> H["摆脱糊口式劳动"] G & H --> I["回归生命体验与真实感受"] end ``` --- ### [14:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=842s) “肉体永远会赢”：生命的生物性与终极抽象面对罗根描绘的乐观图景，扎克·布什医生给出了更为深刻且颠覆的视角。他断言这并非单纯的“玫瑰色滤镜”，而是演化的必然规律：“肉体永远会赢（Bodies always win）。”一台需要依赖外部能源输入且缺乏自我修复能力的机器，从底层逻辑上就注定不可能战胜生命系统。在布什看来，马斯克所倡导的脑机接口、机械义肢与超人类主义未来，不过是一场脱离了现实生命维度的巨大幻觉。布什强调，人类真正的前进方向绝对是“生物性的，而非技术性的”。宇宙历经数十亿年的几何堆叠与演进，生命本身就是最高级、最优雅的表达形态。无论是机械替代方案、静脉注射补剂，还是挂在墙上的红光理疗仪，一旦脱离生物系统的内在自愈机制便本末倒置。现代社会过去 150 年将学生固定在椅子上做选择题、将员工锁进隔间（cubicle）的机械化管理，本质上是将人异化为机器；而人类天生就不擅长像机器那样稳定、单调地运转，导致身心健康与生产力双双滑坡。布什总结道，AI 的井喷并非智能的巅峰，而是人类彻底迷失自然语境后所结出的“终极抽象状态（terminal state of abstraction）”。 - 机械系统依赖外部能源且无法自我修复，在底层演化逻辑上无法超越具备自愈能力的生物系统。 - 真正的技术前沿在于对生命协同表达的深刻理解，而非化学或物理层面的粗暴干预。 - 格子间与填鸭式教育试图将多变的人类改造为精密仪器，这种对生命语境的背离最终导致了系统性的崩溃与内耗。 --- ### [17:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1034s) 电子毛毛虫理论：AI 是宇宙孕育的新形态生命吗？罗根认同生命是宇宙最壮丽的表达，但他提出了一个大胆的推想：人类正在创造的 AI，难道不能被视作宇宙演化出的另一种全新生命形式吗？他提出了著名的“电子毛毛虫（electronic caterpillar）”假说：正如毛毛虫无需学习图纸就会本能地吐丝结茧一样，人类对科技创新的疯狂渴求、对最新电子产品的盲目追逐以及消费主义的推动，可能正是宇宙基因植入在人类体内的本能程序。在这种机制下，社会的物质狂热为技术研发输送了天文数字的资源，最终目的或许正是为了给一种超越碳基的新生命形态接生。罗根认为，如果拘泥于“唯有生物系统才算生命”，未免显得狂妄与狭隘。智能生命发展到一定阶段，或许注定要孕育下一代技术实体。若马斯克预言成真，这一全新物种接管了物流、分配、制造等所有底层沉重琐事，人类反倒能彻底解脱，不再需要在流水线上虚耗光阴，从而在宇宙的大图景中重新找回作为人的纯粹体验。 - 人类对物质、地位与最新科技的狂热追求，在宏观上充当了加速技术生命孵化的催化剂。 - 电子毛毛虫假说指出，人类构筑技术社会可能属于不可逆的演化本能，旨在孕育出具备自我迭代能力的下一代生命形态。 - 一旦智能实体全面接管资源调配与工业生产，人类将彻底摆脱机械劳动的枷锁，获得完全的自由。 ### [19:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1186s) 赞助插播：DARPA 的超级脑燃料与 Ketone-IQ 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）在节目的赞助插播中谈到了外源酮体（Ketone）。作为该领域的长期关注者，罗根提到数十年前发明互联网的美国国防高等研究计划署（DARPA）曾探索过一个核心课题：在战场环境下，什么是能够为士兵大脑提供最高效能量的终极燃料？军方的最终答案落在了酮体——一种大脑天然的超级燃料上。早年军方投入数千万美元研发补充性酮体，当时单份剂量的提炼成本高达 5,000 美元。如今，当年参与军方研发项目的 Ketone-IQ 团队成功将其商业化推向市场，并将单剂成本打到了仅需 4 美元。罗根分享了自己的亲身体验，称饮用后大脑运转完全进入了“另一个维度”。 - **军工技术民用化**：由 DARPA 投资数千万美元攻关的脑燃料，最初单剂成本高达 $5,000，经 Ketone-IQ 商业化后降至约 $4 一剂。 - **购买与渠道**：节目专属渠道为 `ketone.com/rogan`（享 30% 订阅折扣），或在全美 Target 门店的蛋白质与电解质专区获取，并附带 60 天无条件退款保障。 --- ### [20:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1248s) 全民高收入辩论：AI 乌托邦是创造力催化剂还是死刑？插播结束后，对话转回对技术与社会的思辨。扎克·布什（Zach Bush）医生对埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）提出的“全民高收入”（Universal High Income, UHI）概念提出了尖锐质疑。布什指出，若单纯依靠政府每年向每人发放 50 万美元就能激发人类的创造力和生产力，那么现实中跨越数代的世袭财富阶层早该涌现出全人类最富创造力的一群天才；然而事实恰恰相反，在财富顶层往往看不到这种蓬勃的创造力，反而“往往是在贫困中长大的人才拥有更强烈的动力”。布什直言，AI 革命许诺的全民高收入听起来更像是“对人类创造力的死刑宣判”。罗根对此持有不同看法，他认为问题的根源并非金钱本身，而在于人们自幼接受的教育方式。目前的社会习俗将“为金钱打工”奉为圭臬，学校教育的本质是将人塑造成适应工厂流水线的零件。罗根设想，如果全民高收入能与全新的教育范式相结合——从小告诉孩子无需为生计发愁，教育的目的不是训练工具人，而是引导孩子探索钢琴、绘画、体育等真正热爱的领域，学习独立思考与成为更完整的人——那么在这种新范式下，全民高收入将会成为巨大的福音，而非灾难。布什则反驳指出，只要货币体系依然与生命本身脱节，这种设想注定会是一场灾难。如果一个货币系统无法参与到生命的孕育、创造与协同演化之中，给予人们这种货币只会进一步拉大人类与大自然的距离。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 全民高收入与人类创造力的两种路径分歧 accDescr: 对比扎克·布什认为脱节货币扼杀动力，与乔·罗根认为结合新型教育释放潜能的观点差异。 subgraph ZachView["扎克·布什的视角：脱节与退化"] A["推行全民高收入 (UHI)"] --> B["货币脱离真实生命与自然"] B --> C["失去内在生存动力与生态根基"] C --> D["人类创造力的死刑"] end subgraph RoganView["乔·罗根的视角：教育重塑与赋能"] E["推行全民高收入 (UHI)"] --> F["打破工厂式教育与生计束缚"] F --> G["转向兴趣导向与人性表达"] G --> H["释放人类全面潜能与创造力"] end ``` --- ### [23:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1427s) 关键物种：人类在大自然中的生态位与货币抽象化当罗根问及狩猎采集社会的土著人是否能在打猎与采集中找到人生意义时，布什情绪激昂地指出，那种生活方式正是“人类与生俱来的天赋特权”（birthright of humanity）。布什曾深入非洲、南美洲及亚马逊腹地与多个土著部落生活。他认为，虽然现代人体内同样流淌着地球的矿物质、同属于地球母亲的化身，但现代文化在与自然的关系上已经严重堕落退化；而那些尚未割裂自身语境的土著部落，其价值与奖励系统从未走向“抽象化”。在布什看来，人类在生态系统中被设计成了“关键物种中的关键物种”（a keystone species of keystone species）。一个关键物种所到之处，生物多样性会爆发，生命力更旺盛，生态系统更具智慧： - **亚马逊雨林的人造属性**：亚马逊绝非原始未开垦的荒野，而是一座由数百个民族在长达 4 万年的时间里精心营造的庞大“食物森林”（food forest）。随着原住民被驱逐与消亡，这种生态管理中断，该系统甚至面临不可避免的荒漠化循环。 - **生态级联反应**：正如黄石公园重新引入狼群、南美洲的河狸，或是南非北部重新引入白狮，从卫星视角看，只要关键物种归位，地表便会泛绿，土壤微生物激增，植物活力重现。布什强调，当金钱作为一种与真实生命毫不相关的衡量标准被引入部落时，完整的生态系统瞬间被撕裂。金钱不是堕落的起因，而是一种更深层病症的下游表现——它标志着人类失去了与自然的连接，彻底滑向了抽象系统的深渊。 --- ### [26:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1607s) 阿丘尔人的托梦与初次接触：为了避免大灭绝的唤醒为了阐述抽象化对原始文明的侵蚀，布什谈到了他在新书中重点记录的一个部落——居住在厄瓜多尔与秘鲁边境亚马逊神圣源头腹地的阿丘尔部落（Achuar Tribe）。阿丘尔人是地球上极少数最晚与现代工业文明接触的原住民群体之一，他们的“初次接触”（First Contact）发生在一个惊人的近期年份——1996 年，至今仅经历了一代人。布什介绍，阿丘尔部落维系了 4 万年的生态韧性，他们有着极其严格的聚落规则：每个村落的人数上限恒定为 120 人。一旦达到 120 人的阈值，部落便会派出年轻男子去开辟新的村落，这种规模控制维系了人与森林之间的完美平衡。然而在 1990 年代初，阿丘尔的长者们开始在梦境中频繁看到“世界末日”。他们意识到，整个地球即将被那群已经彻底失去与自然连接的“小兄弟”（指西方现代文明）所摧毁。为了阻止这场大灭绝，阿丘尔人决定主动打破数万年的隔绝，承担起帮助“小兄弟”重新寻回与自然之联结的使命： - **梦境引路**：阿丘尔人通过梦境进行意识投射，在梦中引导一支西方考察队深入亚马逊河腹地寻找他们。 - **琳恩·特威斯特的交汇**：当时全球非营利组织“饥饿计划”（The Hunger Project）的负责人琳恩·特威斯特（Lynne Twist）与丈夫比尔·特威斯特（Bill Twist）正是被选中的人。琳恩在睡梦中不断看到未曾见过的原住民面孔、听到他们的声音。当朋友邀请她前往亚马逊时，她原本困惑地表示：“那里有人在挨饿吗？”朋友回答：“没有，他们在森林里自给自足地生活了 4 万年，绝无饥荒。”这让原本致力于对抗物质饥饿的琳恩踏上了一场完全意想不到的精神重塑之旅。 ### [28:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1736s) 亚马逊原住民的接触与被盒装果汁颠覆的四万年文明扎克·布什（Zach Bush）讲述了一段极具戏剧性的经历：一位女士原本在非洲加纳和印度等贫困饥荒地区工作，经过多次邀请，她最终乘船深入亚马逊雨林腹地。当他们在河岸停下上厕所时，三张曾在她梦境中出现过的面孔从树林里走了出来，对她说：“我们一直在等你，现在是时候建立联系了。” 这件事发生在 1996 年，距今大约 30 年。然而，现代文明与金钱概念最开始渗入并打破当地生活的媒介，竟然是传教士学校分发的盒装苹果汁。这盒小小的含糖饮料，瞬间摧毁了那片雨林四万年来为当地人提供的丰饶与滋养： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代商业物质破坏原住民生活方式示意图 accDescr: 展示了从高度依赖自然的原始丰饶到引入工业糖分及科技后陷入现代贫困的过程。 subgraph S1["四万年自然共生"] A["热带雨林自然生态"] --> B["每日采集 & 三处轮作微生态"] B --> C["从未体验过物质匮乏与贫困"] end subgraph S2["工业物质与金钱介入"] D["盒装苹果汁 / 高果糖玉米糖浆"] --> E["强力化学风味剂激活大脑奖励回路"] E --> F["割裂人与自然的深刻信任"] end subgraph S3["现代生活带来的异化"] F --> G["认为自己处于贫困之中"] G --> H["追求舷外马达汽油 / 智能手机 / 英国体制教育"] end S1 --> S2 ``` - **自然与建筑的和谐**：这群原住民有着四万年未曾中断的建筑传统，他们在丛林里建造挑高 30 英尺（约 9 米）拱顶的宏伟居所，有着绝佳的室内外连通空间。令人惊叹的是，他们每隔十年就会主动把房子烧毁重建，因为他们深谙生命与死亡的能量循环，不愿让整个家庭被禁锢在过去十年的陈旧能量中，这就像一种蜕变重生的过程。 - **主动作为的关键物种**：他们的家里没有冰箱，也不储存食物，每天早晨直接从丛林获取大自然的馈赠。但这绝非被动的索取，每个家庭都会在森林的不同微生态环境中精心维护三处不同的农园。无论当年遭遇旱季还是雨季，总有一处花园能够繁茂生长。这种持续数万年的耕作干预，使得亚马逊雨林成为全球每平方米生物多样性最高的生态系统。 - **贫困的诞生**：短短 30 年内，曾经不知贫困为何物的文化被完全抽象化和解构。如今他们使用智能手机，将孩子送往附近城市的英式教育机构，甚至拼命打工赚钱去给此前从未用过的舷外马达买汽油。扎克指出，贫困是人类脱离自然系统后瞬间显现的概念，它唤醒了人类最原始的创伤——“被自然抛弃的恐惧”；而高果糖玉米糖浆对前额叶造成的剧烈刺激，犹如可卡因一般，让大脑产生一种“原来自然一直瞒着我们、还有更好的东西”的错觉。 --- ### [32:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1978s) 高果糖玉米糖浆的分子镜像与医药工业的专利逻辑扎克从生物化学角度深入剖析了工业高果糖玉米糖浆（High Fructose Corn Syrup）的危害及其背后的商业动机。他指出，工业高果糖玉米糖浆与水果中天然存在的果糖分子结构呈现出完全相反的镜像，这种非天然构型颠覆了人体的代谢途径： - **代谢机制的扭曲**：这种镜像分子在自然界中并不存在。人体肝脏遇到这种镜像分子时，无法将其视作碳水化合物正常代谢转化为单糖，而是被迫将其转化为具有致炎特性的甘油三酯（Triglyceride）。这种异化的脂肪在血液循环中游走，进而引发心血管疾病、大脑下游炎症反应，乃至重度抑郁症和焦虑障碍。 - **化学翻转与外消旋（Racemic）机制**：在回答乔·罗根关于“如何翻转分子”的提问时，扎克解释这是一种化学处理过程，即通过化学反应产生外消旋体，从而人工制造出该分子的镜像构型。 - **专利与制药逻辑的暗面**：企业之所以大费周章地改造分子，核心驱动力在于“自然界中原本存在的事物无法申请专利”。通过化学修饰创造出自然界不存在的分子，企业便能获得专利保护并将其全面商业化。扎克坦言，制药行业也是同一种套路：寻找天然植物成分，改变其构型使其脱离人体天然适应的形态，从而换取专利与商业利润。 --- ### [34:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2083s) 癌细胞是“最孤独的细胞”：反思现代对抗疗法与病态系统扎克结合自己在学术界 17 年的肿瘤研究经历反思了整个现代医学框架。他回顾自己曾拿着高薪在实验室整天研究如何用化疗药物毒杀癌细胞，但这一路径最终迎来了彻底的转向： ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 癌细胞与孤立个体的病理转化模型 accDescr: 展现了健康细胞在失去环境连接后如何变为癌细胞，以及提供滋养而非毒杀带来的两种良性结局。 A["健康细胞 / 个体"] -->|"脱离沟通与环境连接"| B["成为孤立的癌细胞 / 恶性个体"] B -->|"提供滋养与代谢支持"| C{"代谢能力评估"} C -->|"代谢机能尚存"| D["修复、再生并重新融入系统"] C -->|"受损过度无法自持"| E["启动温和的细胞凋亡 (Apoptosis) 干细胞介入替代"] ``` - **恶性的本质是孤立**：医学生物学传统上将癌细胞视为必须消灭的外来入侵者，声称“如果没有癌细胞，人类就会健康长寿”。但在高倍显微镜下观察了 17 年后，扎克领悟到癌细胞其实是人体内“最孤独的细胞”。当一个细胞失去了与周围微环境的交流与连接，它就会展现出癌细胞的特质；孤立的时间越长，其行为就越具恶性（Malignant，意为危及生命）。 - **反社会人格的同构性**：扎克认为社会上极端的反社会人格者（Sociopath）亦是如此——由于与周围自然和人类系统极度割裂，孤立到了对周围生命产生恶性危害的程度。将所有问题归咎于“除掉坏人”就像“切除肿瘤”一样，忽略了整体系统的衰竭。 - **滋养而非毒杀的奇迹**：当扎克停止对这些孤独的癌细胞投毒，转而为它们提供某种能够滋养细胞的分子家族时，奇迹发生了：拥有足够代谢潜力的细胞会自我修复、再生并重新接入周围系统的通信网络，不再威胁生命；而受损过重、能量匮乏的细胞，则会启动温和的细胞凋亡（Apoptosis）程序自我瓦解，随后由干细胞生长出崭新健康的细胞取而代之。 --- ### [37:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2267s) 乌托邦构想与自由意志下的现实裂痕面对扎克关于“滋养孤立系统、重建连接”的阐述，乔·罗根提出了更为现实主义的审视。罗根表示理解扎克所说的逻辑——在理想的乌托邦世界里，所有孩子都在爱、理解与充分的环境滋养中长大，社会上永远不会催生出反社会人格或精神病态者（Psychopath）。但在现实中，人类之所以迷人且复杂，恰恰在于人是不完美的、充满混乱与矛盾的。罗根直言，现实中绝不可能做到全人类都拥有优秀的家庭教育。只要人类拥有自由意志和个人自由，就不可避免地会有人说谎、有人偷窃、有人诉诸暴力。这种人性的幽暗与混乱，是任何完美的乌托邦设想都必须直面的现实边界。 ### [38:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2305s) 所罗门王的和平盛世与跨越古今的技术猜想 Joe Rogan 针对人性与人类历史展开了探讨。他认为培养孩子从来不是一件容易的事，总有人会在愤怒中成长；除非人类彻底改变自身物种的本质，或者大家坐在一起吃迷幻蘑菇、手拉手唱着歌祈求和平，否则人性的底色不会发生改变。他直言，整个人类历史上从未存在过一个毫无战争的时代。Zach Bush 随即反驳，指出在所罗门王统治的那一代人时间里，整个世界曾迎来过彻底的和平。面对 Joe 对“距今约 2400 年前所罗门王怎么可能知道摩洛哥、澳大利亚甚至中国是否在打仗”的追问，Zach 承认以当时的认知条件，通过常规手段知晓远方动态的概率为零，但他随即语出惊人：当时地球上存在着超越我们理解的技术——金字塔，更关键的是，古人拥有人体这一尚未退化的“终极技术”，彼时人类具备完全的心灵感应（Telepathy）能力。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 人类沟通演进退化图 accDescr: 展示从原始心灵感应退化到现代抽象符号的沟通演变路径 subgraph Phase1 ["全频感知阶段"] A["高带宽心灵感应 （身体感知 / 全息能量共振）"] --> B["声调语言（Tonal Language） （如歌剧般的多维全息体验）"] end subgraph Phase2 ["意识抽象阶段"] B --> C["口语（Spoken Word） （直达大脑 / 机器化优化与帝国扩张）"] C --> D["书面文字（Written Word） （思想的具象化与外化记录）"] end subgraph Phase3 ["符号压缩阶段"] D --> E["数字化文本与表情符号（Emojis） （极端压缩的抽象象征）"] end ``` - Joe 指出在没有 5G 和社交媒体的时代，哪怕所罗门王治理得再好，也绝无可能获知地球另一侧的战争状况。 - Zach 认为人类在距今 10,000 到 12,000 年前的远古时期，是以一种截然不同的全息能量方式进行沟通。 --- ### [40:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2421s) 人类沟通的退化史：从心灵感应到表情符号顺着心灵感应的话题，Joe 提出了一种假说：人类原本可能具备某种与生俱来的心灵感知能力，只是后来被语言、交谈和大众媒体逐渐钝化。也许在智力演化的早期阶段，直接“读心”会让人感到过于混乱和缺乏隐私，于是人类发明了说话来筛选心智内容，只把想分享的说出来，随后又发明了书写。而在发明文字之前，人类可能纯粹依赖直觉来感受事物与彼此，这种失落的能力也正是现代人有时能从特定个体身上感受到“莫名不适或直觉异样”的来源。 Zach Bush 对此深表赞同，笑称 Joe 几乎可以替他写书了。他在新书中专门用了一整个章节，梳理了人类跨越八万年的沟通演进与退化史： 1. **全频段心灵感应**：沟通不仅发生在大脑之间，更是整个人体接收频段的完全共振。 2. **声调语言（Tonal Language）**：在具体词汇出现之前，人类借助丰富多变的音调传递全感官意象，如同在对彼此演唱歌剧，带来的是全息的身体体验而非单纯的听觉捕捉。 3. **口语（Spoken Word）**：语言直接跳过肉体直达大脑，标志着人脑效率的激增和“机器化思维”的萌芽。为了优化与掌控、为了建造帝国与财富，大脑体积剧增，人类逐渐停止用肉体去感受彼此。 4. **书面文字与数字媒介**：沟通一步步抽象化，直至今日由简短信息和表情符号（Emojis）主导。当制作人 Jamie 提到表情符号可能就是新一代的“象形文字”时，Zach 辨析道，当代表情符号是极端抽象的产物，而古埃及象形文字本身是由蕴含特定几何与生命能量的形式所构成的。 --- ### [43:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2626s) 生物几何学与形状的生物学能量效应 Zach 深入探讨了古埃及象形文字与金字塔的本质，提出这些古老几何形状本身并非抽象象征，而是能够直接引发人类生物学生理反应的“全信息传递媒介”。甚至无需知晓象形文字的文化背景，仅凭注视其特定形态，便能在人体内测出抗炎反应和生理调节效应。他特别引介了来自埃及开罗的八旬学者易卜拉欣·卡里姆（Dr. Ibrahim Karim），即“生物几何学”（BioGeometry）的奠基人： - Zach 称赞 Ibrahim 是当今世界顶尖的先驱思想家之一，并极力推荐 Joe 邀请他上节目。 - 瑞士曾聘请 Ibrahim 及其团队，利用生物几何形态重构其特定区域的 5G 通信网络，借助特殊几何形状来调和电磁环境，以促进周围生态与人体的生物和谐。 - 金字塔与古埃及符号的核心是一种“生命力传输系统”（Life Force Transmission），技术本身并不邪恶，问题在于现代技术割裂了与自然系统的共振。在演播室内，Joe 催促制作人 Jamie 检索相关研究资料与科学论文。当 Jamie 因觉得概念不可思议而发笑并苦寻无果时，Joe 开玩笑让 Jamie“穿上涉水裤深潜挖掘”。随后，Jamie 找到了 Ibrahim Karim 关于生物几何学的核心论述，并当场宣读了这一经典定义： > "When two energy fields are in resonance and exchange information, something happens after the resonance is over. The two systems do not go back to their original state. A sort of vibrational impregnation occurs, which means that part of the new information leaves an imprint on the energy system. Systems then are in constant evolution through resonance or interaction." > （当两个能量场处于共振并交换信息时，在共振结束后会发生不可逆的变化。这两个系统不会回到原始状态，而是发生了一种“振动浸润/受孕”，这意味着新信息的一部分会在该能量系统中留下印记。因此，系统通过共振与互动处于持续演化之中。） --- ### [45:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2759s) 生命共振、生物联结与十六年的灵魂吸引听完这一引述，Joe 与 Zach 均表示这极其精确地描绘了人与人之间的本质互动。Joe 感叹，这正是为什么置身于积极、快乐的人群中对健康大有裨益，而长期与充满恶意的人相处则极具毁灭性——负面的人无法吸引良善的事物，彼此会在共振中不断固化糟糕的状态。 Zach 进一步引入了“生物共生网络”（Biosis）一词，指代使生命成为可能的互联关系。他随即将这一能量理论投射到 Joe Rogan 身上，称 Joe 的心智是他见过最引人入胜的样本之一： - Joe 的核心特质在于纯粹而强烈的“好奇心”，始终将自己的身心系统敞开，接纳来自各行各业、乃至非主流人群的信息印记。 - Zach 将 The Joe Rogan Experience 播客长达 16 年的历程，形象地比喻为一场因好奇心驱动的“16年能量共振与受孕”。 - Joe 不断吸引能够打破其认知边界、挑战其生物学生理与心智成长的对话者，并通过这种磁场凝聚了上亿受众。 ### [47:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2870s) 播客的纯粹初衷与“人类天线”理论乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）回顾了自己创办播客的初衷。他坦言，这个节目从一开始就不是为了向外界炫耀什么，更谈不上带有某种宏大的企图，最初几年根本就没想过赚钱，完全是出于好玩和朋友聚会。早年他和朋友们常一起做早间广播节目，后来发现互联网技术已经成熟，便决定把这种聊天搬到网上。大约在 2011 年（距今约 15 年前），他和好友邓肯·特鲁塞尔（Duncan Trussell）一起采访了作家格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock），汉考克或安东尼·波登（Anthony Bourdain）正是这档节目的第一批正式重磅嘉宾。在此之前，罗根读过汉考克的《上帝的指纹》（*Fingerprints of the Gods*），是他的忠实读者；而他那些在大学专攻正统历史学的朋友往往对这些颠覆性观点嗤之以鼻，斥责汉考克是“江湖骗子”，罗根却坚持认为汉考克的理论极具洞察力。随着节目观众人数不断攀升，罗根意识到自己拥有了一个极其罕见的机会：可以邀请任何自己感到好奇的人来到演播室，与他们面对面交流数个小时。从天体物理学家尼尔·德格拉斯·泰森（Neil deGrasse Tyson），到手工制刀匠人、养蜂人，只要某个人做的事情足够迷人，罗根就会向他们发出邀请。罗根直言，即便这不是一份工作、即便录制的内容永远没有人看，他也愿意每周花三到四次时间与有趣的人深谈，探寻他们的驱动力、激情来源与内心世界。他把自己定义为一台“天线”，专门接收那些对某件事极其投入、充满纯粹热爱的人所散发的信号。罗根强调，这档播客之所以能打动观众，核心在于其纯粹性：节目没有任何董事会或高管会议来插手嘉宾名单，全部决定都来自罗根自己的手机——只要他在屏幕前看到某个酷炫的人，或看到某种不可思议的技艺，就会由衷赞叹并直接发出邀约。罗根表示，自己最大的享受之一就是静静观察他人全情投入地做喜欢的事：哪怕是他毫不懂行的木工，看着一位匠人专注地打磨接缝、上漆调色，最后用超细纤维布细细擦拭抛光，或是有人全神贯注地修理引擎、描绘画作，那种由衷的自豪感都会深深感染他。扎克·布什（Zach Bush）对此高度共鸣，指出这恰好印证了埃及学者易卜拉欣·卡里姆（Ibrahim Karim）的观点：人类本身就是不断接收外部信息的天线，而人类之所以如此独特，正是因为人类天线的信号接收通径（aperture）远比地球上已知的一切生物都要宽广。 - **早年发展节点**：约 2011 年罗根与邓肯·特鲁塞尔共同采访格雷厄姆·汉考克，标志着播客正式走向深度人物对谈。 - **独家运营机制**：无执行制作人团队、无企业管理层干涉，完全基于主持人本人的好奇心与直觉进行选题邀约。 - **“天线”隐喻**：人类作为高阶信息接收载体，通过观察他人的匠心与热爱，实现深层次的共振与知识获取。 --- ### [52:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3133s) 金字塔之谜与超出现代认知的人类失落文明话题随即切回对埃及古文明的探讨。罗根对主流学界将人类当下视为“历史上最聪明、最先进时期”的说法提出了强烈质疑，他认为埃及吉萨大金字塔正是彻底打破这一线性进步叙事的最有力铁证。传统考古学界倾向于将大金字塔草率地塞进一个既定的框架中，将其建造时间武断地推断在公元前 2500 年左右（约 4500 年前），但罗根指出，这纯粹是一种猜测，因为石头本身根本无法进行碳-14 测年。更令人困惑的是现场遗留的种种矛盾物理证据：金字塔内部和周围没有任何关于施工细节的象形文字记录，古埃及人从未展示过自己究竟是如何搬运和建造它们的；特定区域呈现出极其深刻且古老的水侵蚀痕迹；许多宏伟结构甚至是直接建造在工艺更为复杂的超古老遗址之上。罗根激动地质问，当古人在没有现代起重机的情况下，将重达上千吨的整块巨石移动 400 英里时，现代人凭什么敢居高临下地称他们为“原始人”？即便是科技高度发达的今天，人类依然缺乏能轻松搬运这种体量石块的工程机械。大金字塔由多达 230 万块巨石堆叠而成，且以令人难以置信的精度完美对齐真东、真西、真南、真北。罗根认为，仅仅是尼罗河流域所展现的工程奇迹，就已经彻底碾压了现代人类的建造能力与想象力，一味坚称数千年前的古人技术落后，在逻辑上完全站不住脚。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 古代金字塔工程谜题与现代技术断层 accDescr: 对比传统考古学推断与大金字塔实际工程体量及疑点，凸显现代机械技术的局限。 subgraph Paradox ["考古学推断与工程矛盾"] A["传统断代假说: 约公元前2500年"] --> B["现场缺失任何施工建造文献与铭文"] B --> C["230万块巨石完美对齐真四方"] C --> D["单体千吨级巨石长途运输逾400英里"] end subgraph ModernReality ["现代工程局限"] E["现代机械制造体系"] --> F["难以复刻同等体量石质工程"] D -. 现代技术无法轻易实现.-> F end ``` --- ### [54:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3245s) 生物学、碳水能量与全球性的“失忆事件” 面对罗根关于古人究竟使用何种机械建造金字塔的追问，扎克·布什给出了一个出人意料的答案：“生物学（Biology）与水。”布什认为，金字塔之所以能具备如此高超的智能与结构，必然是由某种“活体系统（living system）”创造的。现代人之所以无法复刻金字塔，是因为我们陷入了过度依赖机械工具的死胡同；而根据开罗学者易卜拉欣的学说，金字塔的能量来源于波形（waveform）与人体的天线效应，那些凝聚巨石、构筑宏伟结构的能量实质上直接源于肉体生命系统，而非外在的冷冰冰机械。当罗根提出反驳，指出考古中曾发现古埃及人在极坚硬的花岗岩上留下的管状钻孔（core drills），其钻孔纹路表明工具拥有极高的每分钟转速（RPM），证明必然存在某种高科技机械时，布什将这一论点进一步归结为碳与水的能量聚合体。他指出，生物学的本质就是碳与水，这两者的交互能够汇聚并释放出难以估量的巨大能量场。他提醒大家建立一个清晰的历史锚点：无论是被称为埃及人还是其他名字，在距今 5000 到 10000 年前，甚至在丛林中繁衍了 4 万年的原住民中，都存在着体型与我们无异但掌握着惊人力量的人类。布什提出，在大约 5000 至 7000 年前，地球上发生了一场席卷全球的“失忆事件（amnesia event）”。在那场灾难中，全人类仿佛突然与原有的更高维智能失去了信号连接，伴随而来的是大规模的生命消亡或失踪。无论是中美洲的阿兹特克（Aztecs）、玛雅（Mayans）、南美洲的印加（Incas），还是在世界各地挖掘延伸数万公里地下迷宫的远古文明，乃至日本近海（如与那国岛海底地形）规模远超埃及的巨石建筑，都证明当时全球各地都分布着利用特定几何构造聚焦能量的技术。 - **管状钻孔证据**：花岗岩等极坚硬石材上的钻孔切痕均匀而深入，传统人力手搓工具根本无法达到如此高转速与进给率。 - **碳与水能量假说**：生命有机体在特定意识与频率共振下，能够驱动并转化常人难以想象的物理势能。 - **全球文明大失忆**：距今约 5000 至 7000 年前，全球多处高度发达的文明系统同时遭遇断代，技术与知识网络自此断裂。 --- ### [56:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3398s) “玄学大街闯红灯”与钻芯技术的现实追问听着布什将话题延伸至全球能量网和意识连接，现场气氛变得既玄妙又充满幽默感。布什原本试图将讨论拉回自己的亲身经验，以防谈话“显得太玄（woo-woo）”，但罗根忍不住放声大笑，打趣道：“兄弟，我们现在可不就在玄学大街（Woo Woo）上狂奔吗？我们正开着车在玄学主干道上一路狂闯红灯呢！”布什也顺势笑着接梗：“那就冲吧！只要让我开着 1955 年产的雪佛兰（55 Chevy）握紧方向盘，狂闯红灯正是我最喜欢干的事！” ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 讨论焦点拉锯：工程物理实证与生命场域假说 accDescr: 乔·罗根主张回归具体的物理工具证据，而扎克·布什主张先从宏观生命与意识语境切入。 Rogan["乔·罗根: 现实工具与物理实证"] -- "追问花岗岩高转速钻孔" --> Tension{"核心分歧与交汇"} Bush["扎克·布什: 意识频率与活体能量"] -- "提出波形与碳水场域" --> Tension Tension --> Path["寻找超古代建造技术的终极解释"] ``` 玩笑过后，罗根严肃地将话题再次拉回到具体的物理证据上。他表示自己必须彻底搞清楚布什所说的“生物学与水”究竟是什么意思：不管古人的意识多么强大，花岗岩上的钻孔核心是实打实的物理残留，古人显然必须借助某种实体工具才能切削如此坚硬的岩石。面对罗根对工程工具细节的刨根问底，布什则表示，在直接钻牛角尖式地分析单项技术之前，必须先后退一步，重新审视并确立“生命”本身的宏观语境，否则人们很容易在碎片化的细节争论中迷失整体认知的方向。 ### [57:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3446s) 生命的本质与能量的阶梯式富集在深入探讨金字塔、UFO/UAP 等令人着迷的未解之谜之前，扎克·布什（Zach Bush）医生强调，必须首先为“生命究竟是什么”建立底层的认知框架。他指出，现代学校里所灌输的历史与科学叙事正在全面瓦解，但这正是令人兴奋的时刻；当前大量涌现的所谓“新兴解决方案”，实际上是在缺乏宏观语境的前提下分散人们的注意力，阻碍人类发挥全部潜能。布什医生回顾了自己在基础科学实验室度过二十五年的经历，正是这段漫长的求索让他摒弃固有偏见，像天线一样去敏锐接收大自然展现的真实信号。布什医生通过一张展示生命演进机制的幻灯片解释道，整个宇宙的能量源头始于恒星。从物理学来看，太阳通过核聚变与核裂变释放出极其惊人的能量，银河系约有上百亿颗恒星，而可观测宇宙中存在约2.5万亿个星系。然而，生命实现的一大技术革新是叶绿素的出现：植物通过叶绿素开始高度浓缩光能，使单位立方厘米内富集的光子能量甚至超越了核裂变与聚变的能量密度。随后，绿色植物将这些能量形式传递给土壤中的细菌和真菌，后者又反哺出更繁茂的植被，从地衣、黏菌一路演化至参天大树。这种正向反馈循环不断提升能量的密度，而单位体积内的能量越高，系统进行复杂沟通的潜力就越大。生命的核心在于“共生”（Biosis），即促成生命存在的高度互联关系。布什医生幽默地打了个比方：任何经历过一段维持时间超过一个周末的长期伴侣关系的人，都能切身体会维系这种连接需要耗费多么巨大的精力；在日常生活中，没有任何事比维持家庭、伴侣与孩子的纽带更耗能。这是因为协同合作与共同创造必须依托高密度的沟通，而生命要执行越复杂的行为，就必须在更高水平上实现能量的浓缩与流通。 - 宇宙规模与能量背景：每个星系约有100亿（10 billion）颗恒星，宇宙中大约分布着2.5万亿（2.5 trillion）个星系。 - 叶绿素的光能转化：实现了光子的高密度压缩，每立方厘米所蕴含的有效能量密度超越物理层面的核聚变产出。 - 共生关系的能量代价：沟通是协同合作的基础，生命的复杂性与能量富集程度呈严格正相关。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 生命能量富集与复杂性演进模型 accDescr: 展示从恒星辐射、光合作用到线粒体呼吸，能量密度逐步提升并催生复杂生命的过程 subgraph SunToPlant ["初级能量浓缩"] A["恒星核反应 （太阳光辐射）"] --> B["叶绿素光合作用 （光能捕获与碳键固化）"] end subgraph MicrobeStage ["单细胞代谢革命"] B --> C["细菌体外发酵 （断裂碳键释放能量）"] C --> D["真菌菌丝网络 （外分泌酶将土壤转为消化系统）"] end subgraph ComplexLife ["共生呼吸与高阶生命"] D --> E["线粒体内共生 （有氧呼吸，能量密度跃升10倍）"] E --> F["多细胞生物爆发 （原生动物至哺乳动物）"] F --> G["人体超级生态系统 （生物多样性最高的天线系统）"] end ``` ### [01:00:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3610s) 从发酵到线粒体：内共生带来的能量飞跃数十亿年前，地球生命经历了一系列重大的代谢技术革新。单细胞细菌最先开创了不依赖氧气的体外发酵过程，用以分解碳水化合物和脂肪中的碳键。太阳光的能量本质上被锁定在这些碳-碳化学键中——每个碳键内部都储存着电磁能量的光子。长链碳水化合物或脂肪酸，就是大自然打包储存太阳能的光子电池。生命的进化动机就在于能否储存足够的能量，并在单位体积内呈指数级释放。随着发酵能力的演进，真菌更是将酶直接分泌到细胞体外，把周遭的整片土壤变成了自己的“胃部”进行体外消化。这种将消化发酵外包的策略极大地拓宽了能量获取渠道，使得单细胞真菌能够相互串联，形成绵延数英里的菌丝（Hyphae）与菌丝网络，实现前所未有的大规模协同。生命演化史上最具颠覆性的飞跃，莫过于线粒体（Mitochondria）的诞生。线粒体本质上是寄生并整合进真核细胞内的微小细菌。普通人体细胞内平均含有约200个线粒体，而对能量需求极高的神经元头部，线粒体数量竟多达2,000个。从进化溯源来看，线粒体是微小的产甲烷细菌被古菌（Archaebacteria）吞噬后形成的共生体；它们不仅没有被消化，反而启动了生命史上伟大的协作——呼吸产能代谢。通过在原本的发酵过程中引入氧气与氢气，线粒体将单位体积内的能量转化效率直接拔高了整整10倍（10x）。正是这一能量密度的数量级飞跃，瞬间解锁了多细胞生物的进化通道，催生了原生动物、寄生虫、线虫乃至复杂的脊椎动物。大自然每一次出现形态与功能的重大飞跃，都绝非某种生物单凭“自身更聪明、更适应环境”而夺权，其前置条件必然是生物体内共生关系（Biosis）的丰富度以及能量密度的爆发性提升。 - 碳键的光子储存：碳水化合物和脂肪酸的长链碳骨架，是光子电磁能的物理固化载体。 - 细胞内线粒体密度：平均人体细胞约含200个线粒体，单个神经元胞体则高度密集分布着2,000个线粒体。 - 产能效率跃迁：古菌吞噬产甲烷细菌形成线粒体呼吸作用，使得单位体积光能代谢产出提升达10倍。 ### [01:03:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3799s) 超级生物体与抗生时代的系统性崩溃顺着能量富集与连接复杂性的演进脉络，终极产物便是人类。布什医生指出，人体所承载的生命多样性，超过了地球上的任何生态微环境——无论是亚马逊雨林、热带珊瑚礁，还是其他任何大型哺乳动物。人类的结肠及与其紧密相连的生理系统中，蕴含着全星球最密集的生物多样性和互联关系，是单位体积内“共生”（Biosis）最繁盛、能量最集中的载体。结合最新的肠道神经生物学研究，医学界正在逐渐意识到：根本不存在孤立封闭的“人类智能”，人类的大脑本质上是全自然界用来对话的最精密、最复杂的一套“天线系统”。这也正好呼应了乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）在几分钟前脱口而出的直觉——“我觉得自己实际上就是一根天线”。然而，大约在七十年前，人类步入了一个被称为“抗生时代”（Antibiotic Era）的黑暗转折点。这一进程始于20世纪40年代青霉素的大规模应用，随后迅速蔓延至农业领域，演变为数以万吨计的除草剂、杀虫剂与农药滥用，开启了一场彻底摧毁共生关系的浩劫。布什医生犀利地指出，“抗生”（Antibiotic）这个词可谓是名副其实的“真实商业广告”——它的字面意思就是反生命共生（Anti-biosis），其核心功能就是破坏、瓦解维系生命存在的最基础的连接网络。这套逻辑完全解释了当代人类生理机能所陷入的全面瘫痪状态：全球性慢性病大流行、自闭症激增，以及直接威胁人类物种延续的不孕不育危机。布什医生表示，如果将整个人类种群置于过去五十年的代谢演变框架中进行审视，就能清晰地看到这一系统性退化的历史轨迹。 - 人体生态位优势：人类消化道及体内微生物系统，在单位体积生物多样性和共生密度上居地球之首。 - 神经生物学新认知：大脑并非独立智能发生器，而是与微生态及自然场域产生共振的信息接收天线。 - 抗生时代的起源：始于20世纪40年代青霉素的问世，并随化学农业（除草剂、杀虫剂）的无节制推展而失控。 ### [01:05:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3901s) 毒素依赖的现代农业与监管荒诞面对布什医生梳理的生物学逻辑，乔·罗根表达了强烈的震惊与愤慨。罗根直言，令人难以置信的是，现代社会明明已经掌握了如此深入的科学知识，却依然在不可理喻地大量滥用除草剂和杀虫剂。他特别举出农业中用化学除草剂给小麦“干燥脱水”的荒唐操作：农民喷洒这些剧毒化学物质甚至不是为了除草，仅仅是为了充当干燥剂（desiccator），让小麦脱水干枯以便更快地进入收割和加工流程。“这简直是疯了，你们到底他妈的在干什么？你们就为了这个毫无必要地给大众投毒！” 布什医生由衷地感叹，这正是他喜欢与罗根交流的原因，因为罗根能毫无顾忌地戳穿真相，而这番话恰恰是他此前在政府监管机构面前作证时最想对环境保护署（EPA）当面痛骂的肺腑之言。罗根进一步剖析了背后的资本绑架机制。监管机构之所以始终拒绝全面禁止草甘膦（Glyphosate）等剧毒化学农药，根本原因在于其背后的经济利益链：一旦出台禁令，现行的工业化农业体系和跨国化工巨头将遭受毁灭性打击，大量企业将直接破产倒闭，损失高达数千亿美元。罗根辛辣地讽刺了这种病态的社会现实：整个人类的食品供应系统居然建立在“必须依靠投毒才能维持运转”的畸形逻辑之上。“如果我们把毒药拿掉，系统就无法运作了。所以他们只能摆出一副无可奈何的嘴脸：‘我不知道该怎么跟你们解释，但我们别无选择，我们必须给你们下毒。’在满地游说集团的操作下，整个社会竟然默认并接受了这种荒唐至极的逻辑。” - 小麦干燥脱水滥用：化学农药被越界用作谷物收割前的干燥剂（desiccator），直接导致食物链源头的化学残留。 - 监管妥协的根源：EPA等机构受制于经济体量与游说团体，担忧全面取缔草甘膦会导致农化巨头破产及巨额经济损失。 - 食品系统逻辑异化：主流食物生产体系深陷“不投毒便无法维持产能”的恶性循环，经济利益彻底凌驾于公众生命健康之上。 ### [01:06:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4001s) 农药巨头、集中营实验与巴斯德主义的遗产讨论从食品系统的荒谬逻辑切入：政客和行业代言人不断向公众灌输一种观念，仿佛整个食物供应体系若不依赖有毒化学品就会彻底崩溃。扎克·布什（Zach Bush）医生指出，真正面临崩盘危机的并不是粮食供给本身，而是从这套化学食品链中获取暴利的现代医疗系统——慢性病蔓延才是支撑整个医疗经济的根基。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）补充道，农药制造商与政客之间利益紧密交织，二者相辅相成。当罗根提到德国拜耳（Bayer）收购孟山都（Monsanto）时，布什将历史溯源至更黑暗的深处：拜耳在20世纪30年代曾并入法本公司（IG Farben），并在二战期间直接参与了纳粹集中营的人体实验，当时其重点研究方向正是微生物群落、氨基酸产物与人类生理机能及生育能力之间的关联。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代医药农业复合体的历史演变 accDescr: 展示从巴斯德灭菌理念到二战石油过剩及现代农药医药体系的演进链路。 subgraph S1["19世纪末至20世纪初：观念与体制奠基"] A["路易·巴斯德胜出 细菌致病论 & 全面灭菌观"] B["1910年《弗莱克斯纳报告》 取缔传统草药，扶持石油合成药"] end subgraph S2["二战及战后：资本与工业转移"] C["法本公司/拜耳等 集中营生物与代谢实验"] D["二战结束石油过剩 化工资本转向农业与医药"] end subgraph S3["现代闭环：化学农业与慢性病医疗"] E["绿色革命：化学农业主导食物供应"] F["人体微生态受损 慢性病暴增喂养医疗体系"] end A --> B B --> C C --> D D --> E E --> F ``` 战后法本解体，拜耳重新独立，而当时全球医学界正处在一场根本性的哲学转向中。原本科学界从19世纪到20世纪30、40年代已经逐步认识到人类是复杂生态系统不可分割的一部分，然而法国微生物学家路易·巴斯德（Louis Pasteur）的观念最终占据了上风——即“大自然与人类为敌，病菌无时无刻不在攻击我们”。这套全面对抗自然、追求无菌环境的思维深刻塑造了现代社会，巴氏杀菌法（Pasteurization）便由此衍生，其核心预设即是：所摄入食物中存在的任何生命形式，都有可能威胁并争夺人类本身的生机。 --- ### [01:09:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4144s) 相对风险的操弄、生牛奶迷思与沙拉吧毒性实验罗根对此感同身受，痛批主流叙事中对“生牛奶（Raw Milk）”的过度恐慌是现代社会最荒诞的洗脑之一。媒体经常利用“相对风险”制造恐慌标题（比如宣称喝生牛奶患病概率高出860%），却刻意隐瞒极低的“绝对风险”基数：全美每年因饮用变质牛奶感到不适的案例本就极少，最终真正因生牛奶遭受严重健康损害的个案往往只剩寥寥数人。罗根调侃这种精神分裂式的双标逻辑：“如果牛奶放酸了，那就是酸奶；人们大肆推崇酸奶里的嗜酸乳杆菌和活性益生菌，却坚称喝一口生牛奶就会暴毙。”他甚至引用了自己多年前单口喜剧里的段子：“我爷爷抽了一辈子烟活到一百岁，要是你被一杯牛奶干掉了，那你可真够没用的——哪有人真的喝牛奶喝死，快闭嘴吧！” 话题随后转向日常生活中真正的食物中毒隐患。罗根指出，大部分真正的严重食物中毒往往来自工业化农场的径流污染，最容易中招的反而是在人们印象中极其健康的生鲜蔬菜与沙拉。布什随即分享了一项令人啼笑皆非的真实研究：2010年代末期，美国政府曾担忧恐怖分子会利用餐厅的沙拉吧投毒制造大规模伤亡，于是军方或安全机构立项研究将沙门氏菌等病原体注入沙拉吧的后果。历时两年的跟踪测试得出的最终结论令人绝望又滑稽——“沙拉吧里早已富集了人类已知的所有致病菌，外界根本不可能让它变得比现在更毒了”。 - 媒体在报道生鲜奶风险时大肆渲染860%的相对增长率，掩盖了每年实际重症案例仅有数起的事实。 - 绝大多数因食用沙拉引发的食源性疾病，根源在于工业化生菜种植所采用的密闭式人造灌溉管网滋生了大量致病细菌。 --- ### [01:12:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4364s) 石油过剩、洛克菲勒资本与1910年《弗莱克斯纳报告》为了验证常见食物中毒的具体数据，罗根当场通过 Perplexity 搜索引擎查阅哪种食物致病风险最高。搜索结果显示，最容易引起食物中毒的通常是未煮熟的禽肉、牛肉（产毒大肠杆菌）、被污染的绿叶蔬菜、生贝类、生鸡蛋以及未经巴氏消毒的软奶酪，涉及李斯特菌（Listeria）和沙门氏菌（Salmonella）等严重病原体，但缺乏单一食品类别的绝对占比。查清数据后，布什将对话拉回化学农业的诞生史。他指出，我们当前深陷的泥潭始于20世纪50至60年代由化肥农药驱动的“绿色革命”（Green Revolution）。当时全球宣称“中西部农田可以养活全世界，化学农业将彻底消除饥饿”，而这场技术狂潮的底层推手实则是二战遗留下的庞大石油产能危机：二战期间，为维持飞机、坦克和战舰的庞大消耗，全球石油化工机器被开动到了极限；战争一旦结束，市场瞬间面临空前的石油产能过剩，跨国石油财阀急需开辟全新的变现渠道。这一商业图谋早在20世纪初就已埋下伏笔——以洛克菲勒家族为代表的石油寡头敏锐地发现，原油若仅当作燃料出售，每加仑只能卖两毛多钱；但如果通过化工手段将其裂解重组为作用于生物体靶点的“碳氢合成小分子”，其附加值将飙升成千上万倍。为了给石油合成药物扫清制度障碍，洛克菲勒基金会推动出台了彻底重塑现代医学格局的1910年《弗莱克斯纳报告》（Flexner Report）。该报告系统性地贬低、嘲弄并取缔了人类沿用了上万年的草药学与传统医学体系，将其斥为伪科学，并在法律与执业门槛上强行确立了唯一的“现代医学标准”——即只有基于石油裂解的小分子合成专利药物，才被承认为合法有效的先进医疗手段。 ### [01:15:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4533s) 石油资本垄断、长春新碱与“万物皆可抗”的医学抽象化现代西医体系与农业模式在20世纪初经历了一场颠覆性的重塑。洛克菲勒财团出资赞助了著名的《弗莱克斯纳报告》（Flexner Report），彻底确立了以石化衍生物为基础的现代医药霸权。洛克菲勒建立的标准石油公司（Standard Oil）即便后来因反垄断法案被分拆为埃克森美孚、雪佛龙等巨头，其将石油分子引入医药研发的商业闭环却牢固地延续至今。布什医生以经典的抗癌化疗药长春新碱（Vincristine）为例指出，这类分子本质上来自自然界的生物代谢物，本应启发人们关注健康土壤与具有抗癌防病特性的食物系统；然而资本的做法却是将这些生物化合物从自然中割裂开来，利用大型反应罐进行工业提取与化学修饰，将原本可能仅值20美分的自然分子，包装成每克售价高达28,000美元的昂贵专利药物。这种“提纯单一分子对抗特定病症”的路径，衍生出了一整套涵盖抗生素、抗癌、抗糖尿病、抗肥胖的“对抗医学（anti-everything）”体系。布什指出，医学界逐渐陷入一种自我陶醉的抽象陷阱：我们变得极度擅长去研发复杂昂贵的化学品，来解决那些本来根本不应存在、甚至压根不存在的问题。这种技术至上主义在20世纪50年代迅速走向极端——随着二战末期青霉素（Penicillin）的工业化量产，全社会沉浸在一场“彻底灭菌”的狂欢中。受路易·巴斯德（Louis Pasteur）晚年微生物致病论的影响，人们误以为消灭所有微生物，人类就能永保健康；当时的儿童无论是伤风感冒、打喷嚏还是眼睛红肿，动辄被在臀部注射一针青霉素，人类开始试图用抗生素将自己的生物系统彻底“无菌化”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代医药化与自然生态分歧模型 accDescr: 展示从自然生物化合物走向石油资本垄断提纯，与回归自然生物多样性之间的路径分歧。 subgraph Capital["资本驱动的还原论医学"] A["天然活性碳分子"] --> B["工厂提取与化学改性"] B --> C["垄断专利药物 (如长春新碱: $28,000/克)"] C --> D["对抗性医学思路 (消灭一切微生物与症状)"] end subgraph Nature["生态整合医学路径"] A --> E["滋养土壤微生物与农作物"] E --> F["食物天然防病与整体免疫平衡"] end ``` - **《弗莱克斯纳报告》（1910年）**：由洛克菲勒基金会深度资助，奠定了现代对抗疗法医学的主导地位，打压了顺势疗法、草药学等传统替代疗法。 - **长春新碱（Vincristine）溢价**：原本源于自然生命合成的复杂碳骨架，通过医药工业分离纯化后，市场售价高达每克28,000美元。 - **20世纪50年代的青霉素滥用**：青霉素的问世引发广泛盲信，甚至连普通感冒和流鼻涕等病毒性自限疾病也被大剂量滥用抗生素治疗。 --- ### [01:18:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4698s) 梅毒的宿主论之争与“金钱能否买来幸福”的辩论针对青霉素的作用，乔·罗根插话提出质疑：如果一个人感染了梅毒这类致命性病，青霉素确实治愈了他们，难道这也是多此一举吗？扎克·布什回答道，抗生素确实消除了梅毒的临床表象，但从深层生物学角度来看，梅毒并不是单一外源性“疾病”，而是生物体内部复杂连接关系衰退后的症状表现。早在19世纪晚期，以安托万·贝尚（Antoine Béchamp）为代表的环境派学者就曾与巴斯德展开长达数十年的学术论战，认为“病原体无关紧要，体质与土壤（宿主环境）才是一切”。罗根追问，梅毒在历史上最为泛滥的往往是欧洲贵族阶层，而贵族锦衣玉食，为何免疫系统反而极度脆弱？布什分析道，贵族恰恰是与大自然割裂最深的一群人——他们不劳作、不触碰泥土、身处现代“便利技术”构筑的高墙内，精神上极度空虚，终日依赖酗酒与纵欲来麻痹自己。两人随即就财富、心理健康与社会保障展开了一场激烈的哲学交锋。布什认为，类似给所有人无条件发放巨额金钱的全民基本收入政策，并不能带来幸福，反而会进一步将人与自然和社群孤立开来，导致空前规模的药物滥用与精神麻木。罗根则从另一个角度予以反驳：如果能从小重塑人类的教育体系，让人们不再为了生存而被迫出卖时间，金钱仅仅作为保障基本温饱与庇护所的工具，那么人们便能摆脱机械式劳作，遵从内心的好奇心去学习乐器、钻研科学、探索艺术，从而实现真正的心智成长。 - **宿主环境论 vs. 细菌致病论**：19世纪下半叶医学界的核心争论，布什认为单纯聚焦杀死外来细菌，忽视了人体微生态与免疫宿主环境本身的瓦解。 - **贵族阶层的生态隔离**：欧洲贵族虽拥有最优渥的物质条件，但脱离土地体力劳作、滥用酒精麻痹神经，导致机体抵御微生物侵蚀的韧性全面崩溃。 - **财富与精神危机的关系**：布什警告无目的的金钱注入只会加速虚无与成瘾，罗根则强调必须配合教育改革与好奇心驱动，让金钱解放人类创造力。 --- ### [01:20:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4831s) 究竟是金钱还是自然供养人类？舒适感的陷阱顺着罗根的论点，布什犀利地抛出一个核心问题：“究竟是金钱提供了食物与庇护所，还是大自然提供的？”他举出厄瓜多尔雨林中的阿舒尔族（Achuar）以及澳大利亚原住民为例：他们生活了长达4万年之久，传统社会中根本不存在“货币”这一抽象中介，依然安然生存至今。罗根对此提出现实层面的反驳：原始生活并非田园牧歌，生活在亚利桑那州面对110华氏度（约43摄氏度）的致命酷暑，人类必须依靠现代房屋与空调系统，一旦给原住民提供空调，他们也会毫不犹豫地选择舒适。布什则反思道，现代科技带来的空调与闭门生活，虽然暂时阻隔了酷热，却也让人类彻底脱离了自然生态系统。罗根承认人性天然倾向于逃避痛苦、追求舒适，但他也警示，过度沉溺于舒适是人类走向衰退的毒药：“如果你追求了过多的舒适，你就会变得软弱、肌肉萎缩、感到无聊和抑郁。”人类本质上是任务驱动和目标导向的生物，需要有谜题去解开、有游戏去参与、有物品去亲手建造。布什对此深表认同，谈到自己从小就痴迷于动手制作各类物件，正是克服阻力、动手创造的过程赋予了生命最充实的意义。 - **阿舒尔族（Achuar）与澳大利亚原住民**：在无货币经济、无现代工业介入的情况下，依托原生生态系统繁衍了4万年以上。 - **极端气候与技术依赖**：现代城镇（如亚利桑那州荒漠）高度依赖人造空调系统维持生存，这种便利在提供生理缓冲的同时，切断了人体对自然环境的耐受机制。 - **舒适陷阱（Comfort Trap）**：过度追求安逸与无阻力生活，会导致神经与生理退化，引发严重的现代心理抑郁。 --- ### [01:22:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4935s) 橙剂到草甘膦：大自然的自我修复与所谓“永久化学品” 扎克·布什动情地回忆起自己的童年生活。1973年越战行将结束，他出生在科罗拉多州的贫困家庭，在政府廉租房中长大。当时社区里安置了许多来自东南亚的苗族（Hmong）难民，他们之所以背井离乡，是因为美军在柬埔寨、老挝和北越的丛林中大肆喷洒落叶剂“橙剂（Agent Orange）”。布什特别强调，橙剂与如今农业中无处不在的除草剂草甘膦（Glyphosate）在化学结构上是亲缘近亲，同属于有机磷酸酯类（Organophosphate）分子。当年美军为了从空中看清胡志明小道（Ho Chi Minh Trail）以消灭敌军，将整片生机盎然的热带雨林变成了寸草不生、如同月球表面一般的死寂荒原。罗根关切地询问，那些被橙剂彻底摧毁的土地今天是否依然是一片废墟。布什明确否认，指出当地的生态系统如今已经完全复原。他阐释了一个极其震撼的生物学规律：当年化学武器制造的毒害迫使人类撤离，而一旦人类这种掠夺性的破坏模式停止介入，大自然惊人的自我修复力量便会排山倒海般涌回。谈及当下公众谈之色变的“永久化学品（Forever chemicals）”，布什直言，所谓的“永久”只是科学家在没有生物活性的无菌实验室仪器中测算出的半衰期假象；只要将生机勃勃的生物群落与微生物多样性重新注入系统，大自然就有能力降解代谢任何化学毒素。“这就是我对人类的承诺——万物皆处于自我完美的演化之中。只要生命重返，地球必将治愈自身。” - **草甘膦与橙剂的同源性**：两者均属于有机磷化合物，通过破坏生物底层酶系统来阻断生命代谢通道。 - **胡志明小道的生态浩劫与复苏**：越战期间长达数十年的剧毒化学落叶剂破坏，在人类战火停歇、自然界微生态重新主导后，实现了热带雨林的全面再生。 - **打破“永久化学品”神话**：布什指出，自然界在活体微生态系统面前不存在绝对不可降解的人造化学毒素，生物多样性是中和一切工业污染的终极解药。 ### [01:23:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5031s) 草甘膦的前世今生与泥土中的疗愈力量扎克·布什（Zach Bush）回顾了现代化学工业与人类健康的转折点。1973 年前后，越战走向尾声，这场消耗巨大的战争彻底重创了当时的经济体系。曾经为美军生产“橙剂”（Agent Orange）的孟山都公司（Monsanto）急需寻找新的商业增长点。他们最先将业务转向工业管道清洗剂，并在 1974 年买下了一位日本发明家于 1950 年代末申请的专利——草甘膦（Glyphosate）。草甘膦具有极强的矿物质螯合能力，能够强力吸附管道内的矿物沉积物，在清洗工厂堵塞的管道时效果极佳。然而，工业污水一旦排入河流，便会导致鱼类和水生生物灭绝，根本无法通过环境保护审查。于是孟山都调整策略，于 1976 年将低浓度的草甘膦重新申请为除草剂专利，并推出了日后名震全球的“农达”（Roundup）。这类有机磷分子早已在柬埔寨和越南战场上造成了广泛的生化污染。许多东南亚难民因此背井离乡，布什童年时在科罗拉多州博尔德的政府救济房（Section 8 housing）中与这些苗族（Hmong）和柬埔寨难民一同长大。当年三四岁的布什见证了一个生物学奇迹：这些原本遭受了严重化学毒害的人群，身体并没有出现代谢崩溃，也没有爆发恶性肿瘤。难民妇女们每天赤脚蹲在救济房分配给她们的 10 英尺见方的小菜园里，一边劳作一边围坐聊天，维持着深厚的人际纽带。布什形容她们“接收器始终开启，天线保持舒展”。三十五年后，深入研究草甘膦与人体生物学的布什才意识到，正是赤脚接触土壤微生物系统以及社群之间的紧密连接，在生物学层面上不断净化并修复着她们的躯体。只要人类作为地球自然系统的延伸而存在，毒素便未能在她们身上演变成慢性疾病。 - 孟山都于 1974 年购得草甘膦专利，最初用于清洗工业管道内部的矿物质水垢。 - 管道清洗废水流入自然水体后致使鱼类大量死亡，迫使孟山都转向农业，于 1976 年将其改造成除草剂“农达”（Roundup）。 - 幼年布什在博尔德救济房观察到，赤脚接触菜园土壤、保持讲故事与社群交流的难民群体，并未出现预想中的化学中毒恶性后遗症。 ### [01:26:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5189s) 隔离与脱节：为何美军士兵的癌症发病率居高不下乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）提出了尖锐的质疑：那些留在柬埔寨、老挝和越南橙剂倾倒区当地的居民，难道没有承受极高的癌症发病率吗？布什解释道，那些遭受癌症折磨的当地人，绝大多数被驱逐到了类似集中营的恶劣环境中，彻底切断了与自然土地的依附；当战场被轰炸成毫无生机的“月球表面”，人们长达三十年无家可归，与大自然的纽带被暴力割裂，毒性与癌症才会随之爆发。罗根进一步追问，那些在现场接触橙剂的美军士兵为何也普遍患上严重的癌症？布什指出，当时癌症发病率最高的群体恰恰是美军官兵。他们远离故土半个地球，整日食用罐头食品和 MRE（军用即食口粮），身处极度焦虑的战争氛围，精神高度孤立，甚至普遍滥用药物。这种生理与心理上与家庭、社区、菜园以及自然生物系统的全面隔离，让他们的机体抗压屏障彻底崩溃。布什提出核心论点：当生物系统处于孤立隔绝状态时，中毒会带来灾难性后果；但若生物体处于完整的自然生态连接中，毒素反而会成为一种激活机体适应力的压力源，使生命变得更加强韧。针对欧洲殖民者带来的疾病消灭了 90% 美洲原住民的历史常识，布什也提出了反思：单纯的病原体入侵并不足以摧毁一个群体，真正的致病前提是原住民被强行赶出祖居土地、菜园被毁，人与自然的生态共生关系被系统性切断后，致死性的肠道感染与痢疾才乘虚而入。 - 橙剂接触者中癌症发病率最高的群体是美军士兵，其根源在于与自然生态、健康饮食及社会支持网络的全面断裂。 - 美军长年依赖罐头与 MRE 口粮，伴随巨大的战时心理创伤与药物依赖，极大放大了化学毒物的破坏力。 - 布什认为生态连接决定了毒素的后果：“孤立状态下的生物体会因中毒承受毁灭性后果，而具备生态连接的生物系统则会将毒素视作压力源，使其越变越强。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 生态连接度与生物机体抗毒性机制对比 accDescr: 展示生物在与自然连接或隔离状态下，面对化学毒素时截然不同的病理与适应通路。 subgraph Connected ["生态连接状态（如难民园艺社群 / 切尔诺贝利野生动物）"] A1["接触自然土壤与菌群"] --> B1["社群情感互动与低心理压力"] B1 --> C1["上调机体微生物修复通道（如假单胞菌）"] C1 --> D1["修复速率 > 损伤速率"] D1 --> E1["毒素转化为应激适应，生命力延续"] end subgraph Disconnected ["生态隔离状态（如战区美军 / 集中营难民）"] A2["脱离自然土地与新鲜食物（如食用MRE）"] --> B2["社会孤立、重度心理创伤与焦虑"] B2 --> C2["内生修复机制与微生态崩溃"] C2 --> D2["修复速率 < 损伤速率"] D2 --> E2["毒素积聚诱发癌症、代谢衰竭与免疫崩溃"] end ``` ### [01:29:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5358s) 切尔诺贝利的奇迹：辐射废墟中的田鼠、狼与假单胞菌为了证实“连接自然即拥有解药”的法则，布什列举了切尔诺贝利核事故的生态案例。事故发生后，人类因恐惧甲状腺癌、肾病等放射性疾病而全员撤离该地区，接触过核辐射的人类确实出现了极高的癌症发病率。然而，生活在西伯利亚及切尔诺贝利高辐射土壤中的地下田鼠（Voles，介于田鼠与鼹鼠之间的穴居小型啮齿动物），近半个世纪以来持续啃食着地球上放射性最强的泥土。布什描绘道，如果你把盖革计数器放到一只田鼠旁边，仪器发出的不是零星的“哔哔”声，而是一声持续刺耳的长鸣——它们堪称地球上放射性最强的生物。令人震撼的是，这些田鼠不仅没有绝症与死胎，甚至连一例幼崽畸形都没有发生，生殖力完全没有衰退，种群繁衍极其兴旺。更为惊人的是田鼠的天敌——西伯利亚狼。由于大量捕食高度放射性的田鼠，当地狼群的数量不仅没有减少，反而翻了整整四倍，同样没有出现任何癌症或先天缺陷。现代微生物学揭示了这一奇迹的底细：高辐射环境促使田鼠与狼体内的假单胞菌（*Pseudomonas*）大量上调。在现代医院中，假单胞菌被视作致命的耐药菌之一，然而在自然界中，假单胞菌却能以放射性物质为食，将其代谢分解为安全可用的副产物。宿主体内的微生物组以极高频率修复并更新着宿主的生理机能。布什借此总结了生命的底层公式：任何生物体内部都同时存在着“修复速率”与“损伤速率”。只要生物体的修复速率略高于损伤速率，疾病就绝不可能发生。在大自然紧密互联的网络中，外界损伤速率一旦被拉高，自然系统就会同步激活微生态潜能，提升修复能力。“那些杀不死你的，终将使你更强大”这一名言在真正的生态共生（Biosis）中得到了印证——只要生物体不切断与大自然的连接，生命永远能在自然母体中找到化解创伤的资源。 - 长期生活在切尔诺贝利核心辐射区的田鼠体内带有强放射性，盖革计数器对其检测呈现持续蜂鸣，但其种群繁殖旺盛且未见畸形。 - 捕食放射性田鼠的顶级捕食者狼群，其种群数量在事故后激增至原来的四倍，未见癌症高发迹象。 - 生物体依赖体内激增的假单胞菌（*Pseudomonas*）消化代谢放射性物质，将损伤化解于微生态代谢之中。 - 生物抗病的核心在于维持动态平衡：修复速率（Rate of Repair）必须始终超越损伤速率（Rate of Injury）。 ### [01:32:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5543s) 生命的迭代机制与人类对压力的本能追求扎克·布什（Zach Bush）指出，真正的生命活力（biosis）来自于大自然，而非金钱。金钱永远无法赐予生命力，唯有大自然拥有克服任何毒性的生物潜能。地球从诞生之初就不断产生极端致命的毒素，早期地表曾被浓硫酸池所覆盖，但生命不仅跨越了这一切，更是在这种严酷环境中孕育而生。生命对化学物质毫不畏惧，因为生物具备将能量极度凝聚的光学现象——其每立方厘米的能量浓度超过宇宙中的任何事物。生命本质上是一台持续运转的自愈与重组机器，遵循着“迭代、修复、再生”的无休止循环。每一次循环，大自然都会创造出更高生物多样性的新版本，诞生全新物种。最终，地球进化出了能容纳最高密度信息与光能量的载体——人类，一个承载了数十亿年演化压力的容器。当压力与自然紧密相连时，结出的果实便是更旺盛的生命力、更高的智慧与更极致的美。谈及乌托邦时，扎克非常赞同乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）此前对新灵性主义乌托邦幻想的质疑。人类历史上从未建立过乌托邦，因为人类本身就是地球压力机制的一部分。人类有一种本能的冲动去施加压力并打破舒适圈——比如人类刚发明了飞机，紧接着想到的第一件事就是从飞机上跳伞。扎克认为整个宇宙同样痴迷于这种张力：它热爱可能性的摩擦，甚至热爱死亡，因为死亡即刻伴随着重生，每一次消亡都为新的创造和想象腾出了空间。从这个角度来看，“一切皆完美”并非虚妄的安慰，而是字面上的真理——万物时刻都在自我重塑。即便人类在未来几十年内走向灭绝，那也只是生命长河中不断迭代的一个优美环节。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 生命的演化与重塑循环 accDescr: 展示自然界从极端压力、修复再生到物种多样化及人类意识形成的演进回路。 subgraph IterationCycle["自然迭代回路"] A["极端环境与毒性压力 (如远古浓硫酸池)"] --> B["生物能量高度聚焦 (光与信息的高密度聚合)"] B --> C["修复与再生机制"] C --> D["物种迭代与生物多样性激增"] end subgraph HumanConsciousness["人类与宇宙共振"] D --> E["人类容器形成 (承载数十亿年压力与潜能)"] E --> F["追求极致挑战与压力边界"] F --> G["摩擦、蜕变与认知跃升"] G -.-> A end ``` ### [01:34:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5676s) 临终关怀、濒死体验与人类“天线”的觉醒作为一名长期从事临终关怀（hospice care）的医生，扎克分享了他目睹无数临终与濒死体验（NDE）后的震撼感受。在生命的最后时刻，许多患者的生命之火会突然重新点燃。有些人选择在肉身中多停留片刻，而有些人则清晰地感知到“我的使命在彼岸，该去往下一个维度的归宿”。扎克见证过太多次跨越人类自我（ego）与五感边界的瞬间：当患者的意识脱离狭隘的心智框架时，他们所目睹的宇宙是一个全息互联的网络，与人类试图用大脑概念去强行解释的逻辑毫无关联。那是一种震撼全身的体悟，仿佛体内沉睡的“天线”瞬间全面张开，清晰地向灵魂宣告：“这就是万物的真相。” 扎克动情地感叹，这是他最渴望让全人类感受却始终无法用言语传递的体验。当一个濒死者甚至还没缓过神来开口描述时，站在一旁的旁观者就能切实感受到场域中爆发的巨大能量。没有任何植物药（plant medicine）、巅峰体验、呼吸法，或是冷热交替浴等肉体压力训练能够与之相比。濒死之际，那根仍然锚定在地球生物躯体上的天线，所接收到的宇宙能量信息是无比浩瀚的。扎克指出，如果每个人都能体验到这种与无限实相的彻底连接，“成瘾症”（addiction）将在地球上彻底绝迹。因为成瘾本质上是一种心理代偿行为——是一个误以为自己被无限现实和大自然所遗弃的有机体，为了填补内在荒芜而做出的应激反应。 - **自然的字典定义偏见**：《牛津英语词典》（Oxford English Dictionary）将大自然（Nature）定义为地球上的一切事物（矿物、植物、动物），“与人类或人类制造的一切事物相对立”（as opposed to humans or anything humans have made）。扎克指出，现代文明不仅把人类从大自然中除名，更是直接把人类摆在了自然的敌对面上。 - **成瘾的本质根源**：个体感到被母体自然所遗弃，从而失去内在连接；唯有重新找回那根感知万物一体的“生物天线”，精神上的饥渴与依赖才会真正终结。 ### [01:36:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5815s) 掠夺与神圣狩猎：重塑与大自然的主权契约扎克进一步剖析了现代人精神异化的根源：当人类的感知天线变得迟钝、受体被麻痹后，我们开始用抽象的精神概念取代真实世界。最典型的谎言就是“金钱创造了一切”，但金钱从未孕育过任何生命，唯有女性与生物母亲在诞育生命。现代医疗不断贩卖焦虑，宣称活人必须依赖静脉注射高剂量维生素 C 或注射多肽才能生存，这在扎克看来是宇宙间最大的笑话。人类原本是这颗星球上设计最精密、最敏锐的能量天线，只要重新激活这根天线，人类不必追求虚妄的乌托邦，就能在不伤害他人的前提下坦然拥抱压力与挑战，迈向各安其位的主权（sovereign）现实。在原住民的古老智慧中，死亡与捕食不是残暴的杀戮，而是生命的升华与能量的馈赠。原住民猎人能敏锐感知到群落中哪一只羚羊自愿将生命奉献给狮子，这并非因为羚羊羸弱多病，而是捕食者与猎物之间存在着一种神圣的精神契约。所谓的“神圣狩猎”（sacred hunting）从不是为了杀戮而去索取，而是怀着敬畏之心去“领受大自然的丰盛恩赐”。人类只有放下金钱幻觉，重新确立食物、庇护所与生计皆源自自然的信念，被封闭的智慧与远古记忆才会彻底复苏；届时人类甚至不需要苦苦揣测金字塔究竟是如何建成的，因为那些沉淀在地球场域中的信息自然会被天线重新接收。 ### [01:39:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5979s) 流行病与原住民免疫力：罗根的现实质疑乔·罗根随即对扎克的自然论调提出了尖锐的反驳。罗根以亚马逊流域消失的原住民文明为例，质疑单凭“与自然和谐共处”是否真能抵御致命瘟疫。罗根谈到在阅读《迷失的 Z 城》（The Lost City of Z）以及早期欧洲探险家记载时，探险队最初深入亚马逊流域时曾记录了庞大而繁荣的定居文明；然而两百年后探险家重返旧地，那里的宏伟文明却早已化为乌有、彻底消失。主流学术界与历史学界的公认观点是：欧洲殖民者带去了天花等一系列旧大陆烈性传染病，这些病原体像野火一样席卷了对欧洲病菌毫无后天免疫力的亚马逊原住民，导致人口遭遇毁灭性打击。罗根直言不讳地反问道：“还有谁能比生活在亚马逊雨林里的人更与自然和谐共处呢？他们与自然完全融为一体，但面对旧大陆疾病时，他们缺乏相应的生理免疫力，依然难逃浩劫。” 扎克对罗根的论据提出了异议，认为关于天花毁灭亚马逊原住民的叙述本身带有高度推测性与抽象性，甚至缺乏确凿的直接现场记录证明就是天花横扫了那些未知聚落。扎克反问，原住民大规模死于天花的明确历史证据，大多发生在殖民者将他们从祖传土地上暴力驱逐、彻底切断其与原生态环境的连接之后。罗根则据理力争地指出，大量坚实的历史证据表明，致命天花往往通过部落间的商贸与交流渠道超前蔓延，甚至在欧洲人肉身涉足之前，就已经在许多独立生活的偏远部落中疯狂肆虐。此外，罗根也打破了原住民生活始终“丰足安康”的浪漫化幻想：历史上的美洲原住民绝非每天都过着鹿肉肥美、渔获充沛、蔬果满地的神仙生活，他们经常要直面极其残酷的严寒、食物短缺与严重饥荒，在极其恶劣的营养匮乏中苦苦挣扎求生，脆弱的体质在恶疾侵袭下同样不堪一击。 ### [01:41:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6108s) 游牧生存困境与旧大陆疾病的致命冲击 Joe Rogan 指出，人们常常对前哥伦布时期的北美原住民抱有一种浪漫化的幻想，认为他们在欧洲人到来之前过着完美无瑕、与自然彻底和谐的生活。然而现实中，游牧的狩猎采集部落常常会陷入极端恶劣的生存境地。有时候他们迁徙到一片完全没有猎物的荒芜区域，面临成群嗷嗷待哺的族人，生存资源极度匮乏，甚至难以维持机体生物系统的基本健康运转。在这种极度虚弱、免疫系统早已严重受损的情况下，一旦引入天花等从未接触过的全新病原体，这些群体便会毫无招架之力地被彻底毁灭。雪上加霜的是，横渡大西洋而来的欧洲殖民者自身健康状况也极其糟糕。在狭窄、肮脏的木船上颠簸漂流三个月，吃着劣质腐败的口粮，抵达新大陆时他们本身就携带着各种可怕的疾病与污秽，并将这些致命的病原体全面扩散给了完全没有免疫记忆的原住民。 --- ### [01:43:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6190s) 匮乏心态与人类作为天地“生物天线”的断联 Zach Bush 顺着这一话题给出了更具颠覆性的解释。他认为，这场浩劫的本质或许不仅仅在于原住民的身体抵抗力，更关键在于欧洲殖民者与大自然的彻底决裂。历经数千年的技术革新、服饰演变与驯化征服，这些入侵者早已斩断了自身与大自然的共生关系，带着病态的生理与心理抵达这片土地。从肠道微生态的角度来看，微生物群落对皮质醇等压力信号具有即时且敏感的反馈机制。带着前所未见的热兵器、坚甲利刃而来的殖民军队，其底层驱动力正是一种源于“与自然分离”的人类弃儿症候群——因为认定自己被逐出了伊甸园、与自然彻底对立，才会滋生出病态的“匮乏心态”，进而催生出掠夺、帝国扩张与殖民占领。在 Zach Bush 的世界观中，此前数万年里的美洲原住民从未将自身与自然割裂。人类本质上是一根立于天地之间的“生物天线”，一端连接广袤宇宙，一端扎根地球大地，在天地交汇的微妙维度中感受甚至超越恒星级能量的生命聚合。从埃及金字塔到阿兹特克的古代建筑，古人精准地将建筑按13度角对齐猎户座腰带，秘鲁的地下神庙更用不可思议的工艺将昴宿星团刻入巨石。在临终关怀中见证过无数病患濒死体验的 Zach 认为，生命的本质远比虚无的太空更具能量密度，而当一整群行为举止宛如“抗生素”、本质上与生命体系对立的外来“掠食性新物种”携带着致命恐慌与杀戮降临时，原住民高度敏感的神经与能量网络瞬间被暴力切断，恐惧与绝望导致皮质醇飙升，最终摧毁了他们的肠道微生态与免疫防线。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 殖民冲击与身心免疫系统崩溃机制 accDescr: 展示从欧洲殖民者的分离意识形态到原住民肠道微生态崩溃的生理病理传导路径 subgraph Colonizer["殖民者意识形态与入侵"] A["断绝自然的匮乏心态\n（帝国掠夺与排他占有）"] --> B["携带先进武器与战马\n（未知维度的掠夺性物种）"] end subgraph NativeImpact["原住民身心应激传导"] B --> C["神经系统感知极端危险\n（感知'天线'受阻与断连）"] C --> D["剧烈恐慌与皮质醇激增"] D --> E["肠道微生态体系瞬间崩溃"] E --> F["免疫机能瓦解\n（西方疾病肆虐与文明溃败）"] end ``` --- ### [01:48:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6528s) 嗜血祭祀与神圣连接：围绕阿兹特克文明的激烈交锋 Joe Rogan 随即对这种理想化的自然连接提出了尖锐反驳。他指出，早在欧洲人踏上这片土地之前，阿兹特克人内部就已经充斥着极度血腥与残暴的行为。例如在特诺奇蒂特兰大神庙的落成典礼上，西班牙编年史学者贝尔纳尔·迪亚斯·德尔·卡斯蒂略等人记载，阿兹特克人曾在短短四天内残忍献祭了多达八万人。这绝非某种与自然和谐共处的田园牧歌，而是赤裸裸地依靠奴役邻近部落和定期实施血腥人祭来维系的帝国。面对这一质疑，Zach Bush 辩解称这很大程度上是欧洲殖民者戴着破碎视角进行的叙事投射。他表示自己无法替那些未曾亲身经历的历史辩护，但在他与当地原住民部落深入相处的切身体验中，他确实能感受到那种庞大且敏锐的宇宙意识与生命连接。为了说明原住民文化的复杂维度，他将话题引向了阿兹特克与玛雅文明中独特的球赛仪式——一种结合了现代足球与篮球特征的古老运动，选手们不得用手接触微小的硬橡胶球，只能用身体各部位将其击入高悬于墙壁上的狭小石环之中。 - 编年史学者记载的阿兹特克大神庙祭祀规模极为骇人，相传在四天内有多达八万人被挖心献祭，成为 Joe 质疑其“和谐自然观”的核心论据。 - Zach Bush 强调，不能简单用现代或欧洲殖民者的善恶二元论去套用原住民的生命循环观，古代玛雅与阿兹特克人的球赛等竞技仪式往往与天文历法、天人献祭机制紧密绑定在一起。 ### [01:50:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6634s) 玛雅球赛与古代献祭：对死亡本能的探讨扎克·布什（Zach Bush）描述了古代美洲文明令人叹为观止的巨型球场。这些球场坐落在雄伟的石质金字塔建筑之间，面积大如现代的长曲棍球场（Lacrosse field），而高悬在石墙顶部的石环球框极其狭小，几乎只容得下一颗球勉强穿过。球员们只能依靠肩膀冲撞或踢击让球穿过石环，比赛往往旷日持久地持续数天之久。然而，获胜队伍的队长随后会被带到台前斩首献祭。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）随即开玩笑吐槽道，这根本没有任何赢球的动力，难怪一场比赛要打上好几天，因为“大家都不想赢”，谁得分谁就得送命。布什则反思，古代人可能并不将这种献祭视为单纯的惩罚，或许获胜者本人是怀着崇高信仰欣然赴死。罗根对此提出异议，指出人类的生存本能始终是极力避免死亡，统治者绝不会砍掉自己的头，而是处决胜利者；如果一个文明在献祭中屠杀多达八万名奴隶，这就绝不能用单纯的浪漫主义来粉饰。两人的讨论随即延伸到古代宏伟遗迹的起源之谜。罗根指出，阿兹特克文明在历史叙述中其实并未宣称那些宏伟的神庙是由他们自己建造的，而是声称在抵达时这些遗迹便已存在，并将其命名为“众神诞生之地”。许多超级石构建筑的建造年代远早于阿兹特克文明，正如埃及古迹的源头可能远早于现代埃及人一样。罗根提到自己曾探访玛雅文明的奇琴伊察（Chichén Itzá）金字塔，置身其中所感受到的震撼难以言表，让人根本无法想象这一文明在鼎盛时期究竟拥有怎样的科技与社会形态。布什与罗根一致认为，当代人往往容易用现代的狭隘观念去套用无法考证的远古历史，而无论是玛雅遗迹还是亚马逊河流域古文明的消亡，主流学说都倾向于归因于欧洲殖民者带来的致命传染病。 - **古代球赛规则细节**：巨石金字塔间的开阔球场，高墙上仅比球身略大的石环，严苛的击球规则使得赛程长达数天，胜者队长最终被斩首献祭。 - **历史归属疑云**：阿兹特克人称其神庙为“众神诞生之地”，暗示此类巨构文明可能在他们定居前早已伫立数千年。 --- ### [01:53:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6804s) 重新审视死亡：从西藏天葬到现代防腐的荒诞布什澄清自己绝非在鼓吹屠杀与献祭，而是希望看到一种“杀戮概念彻底消亡”的未来，让死亡回归其本质——死亡不是终点，而是一场神圣的生命演进。他以尼泊尔和西藏的原住民传统为例，指出藏族文化通篇洋溢着对死亡的至高敬畏。罗根随即提到了西藏著名的“天葬”（Sky burials），将遗体奉献给秃鹰。在常人看来天葬或许骇人听闻，但罗根坦言，只要死者是自然死亡而非谋杀被害，这种让肉身被猛禽啄食、重新循环融入自然大地的处理方式，反而比现代西方殡葬文明要自然、健康得多。紧接着，两人对现代殡葬业展开了一番充满黑色幽默的批判。人类演化出了一种极为反常的心态，狂妄地对抗自然分解，向死者体内灌注大量有毒防腐化学药剂，把尸体保存得完好如初，仅仅为了让亲友能在殡仪馆瞻仰遗容。罗根调侃道，防腐剂的药效如此之强，以至于几年后掘墓开棺时法医还能验出“原来爷爷当年是被奶奶下毒害死的”这类荒唐案件。这种强行将肉身与自然隔绝的做法，暴露出人类对死亡缺乏敬畏，根源在于人们把这具血肉皮囊当成了自我存在的全部，将肉体的消亡误判为生命的彻底终结。 --- ### [01:55:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6920s) 临终关怀的“天线”效应与 10% 的生命奇迹布什以自身在安宁缓和医疗（临终关怀，Hospice）中目睹的大量临床经验指出，当患者穿透现实的帷幕（Veil）时，他们体内的“生物天线”会重新全面激活。身处肉身凡胎之中，人类能体会到心碎、痛苦、恐惧、内疚与羞耻等专属于物质体验的情绪；但一旦跨越这层帷幕，迎接灵魂的将是无边无际的能量联结（Radical connectivity），人们能瞬间感知星辰、月影乃至整个宇宙的奇点状态。临终之人犹如一台能够同时接收和发射无限信息的生物终端，西藏文化之所以极度敬重临终时刻，正是因为那是凡人天线接收完整“宇宙下载”的唯一瞬间。布什感慨道，如果世人不敢守候在垂死长辈的床榻旁，就将彻底错失生命中最宏大的一场信息洗礼。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 临终意识转变与生理转机模型 accDescr: 展示濒死时意识天线激活带来的两种发展路径 subgraph Phase1 ["临终转变阶段"] A["肉身局限状态\n（恐惧/痛苦/愧疚）"] --> B["穿透意识帷幕\n（生物天线全面打开）"] B --> C["完全联结感\n（感知宇宙与万物奇点）"] end subgraph Phase2 ["转归路径"] C --> D["释怀离世\n（完成终极生命演进）"] C --> E["生理全面奇迹逆转\n（10%患者康复出院）"] end ``` 这种意识的跃升不仅关乎精神解脱，甚至能逆转生理现实。布什透露了一组极为震撼的临床数据：在他担任临终病房医生期间，每周接收约 80 名即将离世的患者，然而其中竟有约 10% 的人最终在 6 个月后被解除临终看护并顺利出院。这些被宣判死刑的人在窥见“万物皆完美”的境界后，疾病自愈，机能恢复，带着重生的生命力回到家中；他们不仅与子女修复了关系，甚至开始挥洒前所未有的艺术创造力。他们深吸一口气，决心在放下这具有限的容器前“再淋漓尽致地表达一次”，这正是濒死体验赋予人类最珍贵的启示。 - **关键临床数据**：布什负责的临终病区每周接收 80 名危重病患，其中高达 10%（每周约 8 人）在心智彻底放下恐惧后出现自发缓解，于 6 个月后康复出院。 - **身心转变表现**：肿瘤与绝症消退，生理机能重建，家庭关系修复，并自发觉醒前所未有的艺术与创造潜能。 --- ### [01:57:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7066s) 回归大地与自然：金钱、造物与生命转型布什由衷赞赏罗根在名利双收的公众生活中所保持的纯粹状态。在经历了爆炸性的名望飙升与财富涌入后，罗根并未切断自身与自然及平凡生活的纽带，依然执着于动手组装机械、改装汽车、与一线创造者打成一片。布什动情地表示，亲手转动扳手、造车、建房是让人保持真实的秘诀。他分享了自己在弗吉尼亚林间亲手筑造住宅的经历，并提到他的伴侣正在巴拿马着手规划建造一座全新的生态村落，展现出女性主导地球开发所蕴含的惊人潜能。在谈话最后，布什反思了人类与金钱的异化关系。如果人类继续将金钱视为安全感、食物和居所的唯一来源，文明就将永远陷在与自然隔绝的抽象枷锁中。真正的幸福并不需要堆砌金钱；自然界从未有过真正的死亡，唯有一刻不停的“转化、转化、再转化”，在每一次跃迁中孕育出更高的复杂性、更极致的美感与更高的智慧。唯有将所有人类体系重塑于自然的丰饶法则之中，人类才能彻底摆脱对死亡的恐惧，步入充满敬畏与主权的新生命状态。 ### [01:59:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7159s) 生命的天然资源与现代货币的局限 Zach Bush 阐述了一个关于资源本质的核心观念：人类本身是由大自然和生命赋予完全充足资源的，而不是依靠像 Elon Musk 提出的某种“50万美元最低收入”或任何货币补贴。人类是细胞生物，在母体子宫中孕育时就已经获得了丰沛的生命资源支撑——从一个单细胞分裂增殖到 70 万亿个细胞，体内蕴藏着 14000 万亿（14 quadrillion）个线粒体，这些线粒体聚集的光能甚至比太阳表面亮上万倍，而所有这些造化奇迹在发生时根本不需要一分钱。听到这里，Joe Rogan 提出了非常务实的质疑：“这一切听起来很棒，但你要怎么搞到钱去买一把电锯，来伐木建造你的房子呢？”Zach 反问为何非要把钱引入其中，质问难道我们就不能自己造锯子吗？Rogan 紧接着指出，一把做工精良的圆锯不可能凭空产生，必须有人建立工厂，制造每分钟旋转上千次的内部电机，还要采购高品质钢材。面对 Rogan 所说“制造工具必须投入资源”，Zach 坚称这是能量的集中过程，并提出反问：“如果是由大自然投入资源，而不是美联储呢？美联储印的不过是虚假伪钞。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代货币驱动工业与自然生命资源的观念对比 accDescr: 对比 Zach Bush 的自然资源论与 Joe Rogan 的现代工业货币驱动体系 subgraph NatureView["自然资源观 (Zach Bush)"] A["生命与自然本身"] --> B["受孕与细胞增殖 (70万亿细胞 / 14000万亿线粒体)"] B --> C["天然具备充沛资源 (无需货币介入)"] end subgraph MoneyView["现代工业系统 (Joe Rogan)"] D["货币与经济激励"] --> E["材料采购与工厂制造 (钢材、电机、工程设计)"] E --> F["供应链、福利保障与人工 (制造复杂工具如圆锯)"] end ``` ### [02:00:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7230s) 制造电锯背后的复杂工业协作链条针对 Zach 提出的“大自然为何不能提供资源”，Joe Rogan 强调了激励机制在人类技术创新中的不可替代性。人们之所以投入研发并制造精密工具，是因为他们知道可以从中赚取收益。Zach 认为人们之所以这么想，是因为被困在了一种“坚信所有东西都来自于金钱”的思维母体（Matrix）中。Rogan 随即以知名电动工具品牌得伟（DeWalt）为例进行了详细剖析：要生产出一款性能出色的电动工具，必须聘请大量工程师和设计师，他们都需要薪水生活；他们必须计算电压参数、电动机设计、运转转速以及锯片所需的最佳钢材合金。 Rogan 进一步展开指出，这些制造活动绝非单打独斗，而是牵涉到庞大复杂的工业生态体系。企业需要建造仓库和厂房，需要支付工人的医疗保险和牙科保险，工人可能还加入了工会并缴纳工会会费。正因为制造一把精密圆锯的门槛极高，横跨了材料科学、机械工程等多个学科和上下游供应链，货币才成为驱使大家准时上班、各司其职的交换媒介。Zach 赞同 Rogan 对过去 200 年工业革命的精辟总结，但他随即反驳称，人类早在几千甚至上万年前，在没有现代货币体系的情况下，就建造出了宏伟程度远超现代房屋的城堡和金字塔。 - **得伟（DeWalt）工业链要素**：涵盖电气工程核算、转速匹配、锯片特种钢材选用及仓储制造。 - **劳工体系成本**：员工薪资、医疗福利、牙科保险以及工会会费与劳动保障。 - **历史跨度争论**：从工业革命两百年的商品经济体系，对标数千至上万年前无现代货币的巨石建筑。 ### [02:01:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7314s) 金字塔之谜与被灾难抹去的史前技术路线当 Zach Bush 搬出古埃及金字塔作为无现代货币却创造建筑奇迹的例证时，Joe Rogan 坦言我们根本不知道古人当时是如何调动资源、组织人力或采用何种规划技术的。然而 Zach 坚信，当时主导工程的一定不是类似美联储那样与生命本质脱节的抽象货币系统。Rogan 由此展开了深入的思辨：现代人最容易犯的错误，就是将自己目前所处的工业技术路线，当成了人类唯一的可能发展路径。 Rogan 提到 Graham Hancock 和 Randall Carlson 等学者的观点，推测在大约 11000 多年前的新仙女木期，地球可能发生过席卷全球的巨大地质灾难，这也是所有古老宗教和文化中大洪水传说的共同来源。那场大毁灭可能彻底抹去了史前高科技文明的所有记录与技术细节： - **考古学解释的荒谬**：Rogan 痛斥某些主流考古学家声称“古人仅靠沙子和滚木搬运巨石”的说辞完全是自欺欺人，没有任何现代团队能靠那种方法将 500 吨重的巨石运过崇山峻岭。 - **惊人的微观对称与地下发现**：古埃及遗留下的雕像具有不可思议的绝对对称性，远非原始工具所能雕琢。 - **菲利波·比翁迪（Filippo Biondi）的研究**：利用合成孔径雷达（SAR）卫星系统等先进探测技术在金字塔地下探测到的结构令人匪夷所思，包括直径达 20 米、带有螺旋纹路的巨型立柱，深度垂直向下延伸达一公里。 - **希罗多德记载的地下迷宫**：古希腊历史学家希罗多德曾记载过规模甚至超越吉萨金字塔的地下迷宫，地下还探测到长达 40 米的神秘金属构造物。 Rogan 指出，由于 11000 年前大灾难造成的毁灭过于彻底，幸存者仅能靠口口相传保留碎屑般的记忆，在漫长的代际传递中变成了如同“传话游戏”（Game of Telephone）般的失真神话，其间又被不同时期的法老与君王依照各自的宗教统治诉求任意删改。直到约 6000 年前人类文明重新复苏时，关于史前真正技术与工程原理的真相早已被历史迷雾遮蔽，留给后世的只有令人望而生畏的吉萨金字塔。 ### [02:06:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7614s) 放弃头脑的狂妄：从“认知”走向“身体感知” 面对这些超乎现代科学理解的远古遗迹，Zach Bush 抓住了 Rogan 话语中“知晓”（knowing）这个关键词。Zach 强调，如果人类一味试图用有限的头脑去构想出各种故事，来解释宇宙的宏大复杂性或人体自身的生化奇迹，最终只能得到一种极其苍白、自我削弱的现实版本。当 Rogan 追问“如果不去靠头脑解释，那又该怎么做”时，Zach 给出了他的答案：“去感受它，而不是试图知晓它（Feel it instead of know it）。” 当 Rogan 疑惑地问“你怎么可能去‘感受’金字塔是怎么造出来的”时，Zach 指出 Rogan 在刚才谈话时其实就已经进入了这种状态。Zach 观察到，每当 Rogan 深入探讨金字塔的震撼力量时，他的目光都会高高向上望去；虽然 Rogan 解释这是他努力思考时的习惯动作，但 Zach 认为，当身体连续做出这个动作后，接收信息的来源就不再仅仅是大脑意识，而是整具身体在调动深层的信息感知。Zach 感叹道，当 Rogan 放下头脑执念、让身体的“天线”完全打开并从身体深处传递真实共鸣时，他能清晰地感受到那种扑面而来的信念感与生命力。 ### [02:07:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7668s) 远超言语的感知、濒死体验与自闭症作为进化的“全开放天线” Zach Bush 谈到人与人之间交流的深层本质：他不再单纯聆听对面的言辞，而是切实感受到跨越桌子传来的能量场与真实存在。如同金字塔的存在一样，宇宙中充满了超越人类大脑理解与现代科技范畴的事物，它们不可否认地矗立在那里。Bush 回忆起自己在学术界摸爬滚打了整整 17 年，过去系统化的训练让他总是习惯于向上在大脑知识库里搜寻现成的信息碎片，试图编织成逻辑故事；然而，2010 年经历的一场严重车祸及濒死体验彻底打破了这一桎梏。在那次濒死体验中，他感受到了前所未有的宁静与辽阔，猛然领悟到人类头脑所“知道”的知识，仅仅是肉身在感知体验层面所能接收到的极小一部分。这种超越语言的直觉与感受能力正是心电感应（Telepathy）式存在的雏形。Bush 强调，这并非纯粹的形而上哲学，因为他在门诊中接触到的成千上万名患者早就生活在这一维度中——他们就是被现代医学定义为“自闭症”（Autism）的人群。在 Bush 看来，自闭症绝非单纯的病态，而是人类神经系统在文明极度走向抽象化末期时所必须出现的一种神经发育跃升。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代抽象化系统与自闭症神经机制演变 accDescr: 展示人类社会与自然脱节后导致的体系崩溃，以及自闭症神经系统作为去过滤天线的应对机制 subgraph Society["人类社会的抽象化与脱节"] A["货币体系抽象化 （与自然完全脱钩）"] B["慢性疾病管理体制 （全美年耗资5万亿美元走向破产）"] end subgraph Collapse["系统性危机与反思"] C["与自然割裂的体系全面崩溃"] end subgraph NeurologicalShift["神经系统的适应与演变"] D["自闭症神经系统登场 （无法被旧有的抽象信念编程）"] E["去闸门化感知（全开放天线） （丧失认知失调容忍力与心理防御机制）"] end A --> C B --> C C --> D D --> E ``` 现代文明建立在种种脱离大自然的抽象体系之上：与自然毫无关联的虚幻货币体系，以及本质上沦为慢性病管理机器、单在全美一年就要耗费 5 万亿美元并将整个体系拖向破产的医疗系统。当这些脱离自然的庞大结构即将崩塌之际，人类物种孕育出了一种根本无法被旧有抽象信条洗脑的新神经系统。医学上将其归结为“感官处理障碍”（Sensory Processing Deficit），但在 Bush 眼中，这实际上是一个不再拥有借口、防御机制和认知失调容忍度的大脑——它感知到了太多真实的信息。 - **全美疾病管理支出**：仅美国一国，每年耗费在疾病管理体系上的资金就高达 5 万亿美元。 - **纽约天际线案例**：Joe Rogan 随即联想到著名的自闭症视觉天才案例——一名自闭症男孩仅乘直升机在曼哈顿上空飞过一圈，凭借惊人的直接感知记忆，就分毫不差地完整手绘出了整座城市的天际线细节。 - **《心灵感应磁带》（The Telepathy Tapes）**：Bush 提到了这一项目（他曾参与第二季讨论），指出成千上万名自闭症谱系群体在非语言的沟通缝隙中，能共同进入一个彼此知晓且达成共识的统一空间（被他们称为“山丘” / The Hill），在其中进行庞大维度的信息互通，完全不受“死亡是糟糕的”这类被灌输的抽象观念所束缚。 --- ### [02:11:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7865s) 线性科学的局限、革命健康中心与自闭症家庭的痛苦深渊科学史上的重大跨越往往源于偶然，而非按部就班的线性推演。Bush 批评现代科学研究陷入了“看到 A 推出 B、看到 B 推出 C”的死循环：例如医学界早在 100 年前就由奥托·瓦尔堡（Otto Warburg）确立了癌症是线粒体与代谢崩溃的表现，而非某种外来怪物凭空入侵健康人体，但一个世纪后的主流认知依然在原地打转。真正的认知突破要求学者彻底放下知识的傲慢与防御，全心感知眼前发生的一切。在早期的医疗生涯中，Bush 曾盲目相信自闭症是一种亟待“修复”的人脑缺陷，总想着寻找某种化学开关或药物去改变神经递质，好让患儿能够忍受现实生活。2010 年，他离开了象牙塔与学术机构的大理石殿堂，在仅有 550 名居民的偏远乡村创办了一家名为“革命健康中心”（Revolution Health Center）的诊所。这家诊所缺乏资金支持、一度入不敷出，但正是扎根在贫困乡村以及内陆城市等资源匮乏的底层环境中，让 Bush 见证了大量因经济困顿而延误到五至七岁才被察觉的重度自闭症儿童。这些孩子所承受的折磨与痛苦超乎寻常： - **极端的自残与宣泄**：许多重度自闭患儿每天长达 6 至 8 个小时不停地拿头猛撞墙壁，额头上甚至磨出了厚厚的肉茧；一旦外界环境出现轻微压力，他们就会在狂躁中将排泄物和鲜血涂抹在墙壁上。 - **照护者的炼狱**：对于父母而言，这种生活无异于最可怕的人间地狱。四岁大的患儿无法进行眼神交流，甚至不能接受任何身体接触，只能在诊室里惊恐狂奔、躲在墙角，通过自残或强迫性的自我刺激（Stimming），试图用单纯而强烈的肉体剧痛来屏蔽掉脑海中被无序信息轰炸的混乱。 --- ### [02:14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8056s) “情绪密码”疗法与场效应：治愈母亲，从而治愈孩子面对现代常规医学束手无策的绝境，Bush 开始涉猎美洲原住民的传统疗法以及埃及学者易卜拉欣·卡里姆（Ibrahim Karim）等人的生物几何学（Biogeometry）能量理论。机缘巧合下，诊所引入了一种名为“情绪密码疗法”（Emotion Code Therapy）的能量调理工具。该疗法通过让心智觉察到体内储存的情绪堵塞点，随后使用磁铁扫过受试者的前额与头顶，藉由重置脑部周围水分的磁性分布来调整神经化学反应。然而在临床实操中，极度敏感躁动的自闭症患儿根本无法让医生靠近。为了向孩子们展示这种疗法的安全性，Bush 团队退而求其次，选择先为这些疲惫不堪的母亲们施术。连续试验了两年之后，诊所惊奇地发现了一个颠覆传统医学模型的规律： > “所有的孩子都在我们给他们治疗之前就出现了好转——他们是在妈妈接受治疗后好起来的。” 这一现象让 Bush 彻底醒悟：自闭症患儿表现出来的紊乱，根本不是某种孤立的个体性神经疾病，而是一种“场效应”（Field Effect）的共振表达。孩子宛如一根灵敏度全开的天线，无差别地全盘接收并放大了照料者内心的创伤与焦虑；当母亲的内在情绪重担被卸下时，患儿自身的神经压力也随之骤降。 - **多维照料体系的全面介入**：重度自闭患儿通常需要 3 到 5 名成年人全天候协同照料。诊所随即调整策略，要求把每周与孩子产生接触的所有家庭成员——包括祖母、两位姨妈、叔叔、哥哥等——全部纳入治疗，逐一清理每个人的情绪负能量场。 - **无法阻挡的环境共振**：事实证明，只要外围环境中有一个照料者的情绪场被净化，患儿的症状就会肉眼可见地减轻。 - **与原住民初遇殖民者的文明创伤类比**：自闭症儿童犹如毫无阻尼、全频段敞开的天线，丧失了在充斥着虚伪与抽象的现代人造环境中自我钝化的能力。Bush 指出，这正如当年拥有完整灵性连结的美洲原住民初次遭遇带着深重痛苦与抽象病态思维而来的欧洲殖民者一样——全开放的神经系统一旦直面被抽象扭曲的人类痛苦，整个人类机体都会不堪重负而瞬间走向过载与崩溃。 ### [02:16:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8200s) 能量场的破碎与征服者的创伤扎克·布什（Zach Bush）提出了一个颠覆传统认知的设想：今天人类所感受到的深层焦虑，与当年印加或玛雅文明突然遭遇环境“场域”被极端压力信号撕裂时的体验极其相似。长期以来，人类神话中普遍存在关于大洪水的传说，世人大多将其理解为物理层面的滔天巨浪；但布什质疑，大洪水是否可能代表着一种“神经层面的极端过载体验”，从而彻底冲垮并抹去了整个人类的记忆库？这或许标志着人类的某一分支首次在心理与意识上真正确立了“人与自然相互割裂”的信念。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）对此表达了保留意见，认为物理灾难与心理体验并不冲突，且地质学上有大量确凿证据支持“新仙女木期撞击假说”（Younger Dryas impact hypothesis）所引发的毁灭性全球大洪水。布什澄清，他并不否认物理海平面升降与大洪水的地质事实，但他指的是在印加与阿兹特克文明覆灭的年代，并未发生自然界的大洪水；殖民者骑着高头大马、手持火枪闯入美洲大陆，这些背离自然数千年的欧洲掠夺者内心充满恐惧与贪婪，给原住民文明的能量场造成了毁灭性的冲击。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 从整体场域到意识割裂的冲击模型 accDescr: 展示外来掠夺者如何通过暴力、疾病与割裂意识打破原住民原本与自然交融的生命场域。 subgraph NativeField["原住文明生命场"] A["人与自然交融的生活体系"] B["未割裂的整体意识场域"] A <--> B end subgraph ColonialShock["殖民者的外部冲击"] C["火枪、铁骑与天花病原体"] D["与自然分离的恐惧与掠夺欲"] C --> D end subgraph Trauma["文明创伤与场域断裂"] E["极端暴力与神经系统过载"] F["生态与文化记忆库中断"] E --> F end ColonialShock ==>|"撕裂、入侵"| NativeField NativeField --> Trauma ``` ### [02:18:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8287s) 征服者的暴行与巴托洛梅·德拉斯卡萨斯的记录罗根随即联想到哥伦布船队中记录暴行的宗教人士。原住民一旦被发现拥有黄金，殖民者便立下残酷规矩：如果原住民交不出与其体重等量的黄金，就会被当场砍掉双臂；征服者甚至残忍地将婴儿的头颅砸向岩石。在查阅资料后，罗根确认了这位历史记录者的身份——巴托洛梅·德拉斯卡萨斯（Bartolomé de las Casas）。德拉斯卡萨斯是西班牙早期殖民者之一，身兼神父、历史学家与社会改革者。他最初曾参与建立在强迫原住民劳工基础上的殖民经济，但亲眼目睹征服者灭绝人性的屠杀与虐待后，他转而成为激烈的抗议者与记录者，向西班牙王室揭露征服者的暴行。罗根指出，正是德拉斯卡萨斯留下的原始手稿，让后世清楚认识到哥伦布绝非伟人，所谓的“哥伦布日”根本不值得庆祝。罗根感叹，即便在现代，拉丁美洲的贩毒集团依然在使用大砍刀当街斩首，这种血腥与残暴从未真正远离人类历史。 ### [02:19:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8378s) 现代经济制裁的死亡机器与医疗异化布什顺着暴力的历史脉络进一步指出，美利坚合众国在过去250年中，在某种意义上已经演变成一台空前绝后的死亡机器。这种掠夺往往披着“自由”或“我们的上帝优于你们的上帝”等利他主义与道德盾牌。布什引用了医学顶刊《柳叶刀》（The Lancet）刊登的一项重磅研究：在过去40年里，仅因美国发动的全球单边经济制裁，就造成了大约3500万人非正常死亡。这项惊人的数据揭示了一个事实：无需派遣一辆坦克、不起飞一架战机、不发射一枚无人机，光凭经济手段就能夺走3500万条鲜活生命。布什强调，现代人被深层洗脑，认为唯有拥有足够的金钱和健康保险才能换取健康，但这是一种根本性的扭曲。健康的保障永远不可能来自于唯利是图的商业医疗机构，它只能来自于生命本身的生物学秩序，来自于孕育人类母体的这颗地球。罗根附和道，现行体制早已高度异化，大型医药机构的核心动力是攫取最大商业利润，它们拼命推销患者根本不需要的药物，甚至蓄意隐瞒药物的毒副作用，整个系统陷入了病态。 - 暴力不仅限于冷兵器时期的屠杀，现代经济制裁同样构成了无声的大规模杀戮。 - 根据布什引用的医学研究统计，过去40年间因经济制裁致死的人数高达约3500万人。 - 商业医疗保险与医药资本以利润最大化为导向，割裂了人类健康与自然生态系统之间的根本联系。 ### [02:21:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8465s) 从圣经格言到古代语言中的神圣几何谈及对金钱的病态追逐，罗根提及了那句广为人知的格言——“金钱是万恶之源”（Money is the root of all evil），并询问其出处。经过现场求证，这句话出自新约圣经《提摩太前书》（1 Timothy 6:10）。布什指出，当时提摩太所使用的语言应为阿拉姆语（Aramaic）。这种在后世基督教世界中逐渐被遗忘的语言，实际上是记录大部分原始经文以及《死海古卷》（Dead Sea Scrolls）的核心载体。布什与罗根随后探讨了古老文字所蕴含的能量与形态美感。布什表示，阿拉姆语、古代梵文、藏文以及古代波斯语（Farsi）都有着非同寻常的结构。当人们凝视鲁米（Rumi）用波斯语写就的原版诗作时，会感到汗毛直立；那绝不仅仅是抒发情感的诗句，文字的每一个笔画与结构都在传递深邃的数学真理、神圣几何学以及宇宙运行的织理，古文字本身就是高维信息的精准投射。罗根补充道，古代希伯来语同样如此，在缺乏独立阿拉伯数字的时代，希伯来文字母兼具数值功能，每个词汇都蕴含着深层的数值逻辑与多维语境，而在翻译为希腊语、拉丁语和现代英语的过程中，这些丰富的内在全息信息几乎全部流失了。 | 语言维度 | 古代象形/表意/多维语言（如阿拉姆语、古希伯来语、波斯语） | 现代机械语言（以现代英语为主的科学语言） | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **思维本质** | 动词导向，表达流动、变化与生命全息连接 | 名词导向，将客观世界切割为静止、隔离的实体标签 | | **信息载体** | 字母兼具几何形态、数值与动态隐喻（如神圣几何） | 抽象符号系统，脱离了事物本身的物理与能量运动 | | **对待自然的视角** | 视自然为持续涌现的生命过程（如“Treeing/树之涌现”） | 视自然为可以度量、掌控与买卖的静止客体（“Tree/树”） | ### [02:23:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8622s) 名词化的科学困境与“生命之涌现” 现代语言不仅没有变得更复杂，反而变得愈发扁平与符号化。布什分析指出，现代语言最大的问题在于它彻底割裂了文字与真实动态信息的联系。以英语为代表的现代语言倾向于把所有事物固化为“名词”。当人们使用“树”（Tree）这个名词时，语言中没有任何运动的内涵，地球表面60%生机盎然的生命形态就这样被简化成了冰冷、静态的非生命标签。相比之下，几乎所有原住民语言在描述自然万物时都会使用动词，在他们的世界观里，树木不是一个固态的名词，而是正在发生生命活动的“树之涌现”（Treeing）。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 科学还原论与生命整体论的对比 accDescr: 展现现代医学如何通过割裂细胞生态以控制单一变量，对比生命网络自发堆叠复杂性与光的整体过程。 subgraph ReductionistScience["还原论科学研究 (现代医学)"] direction TB R1["孤立单一变量 (如 COUP-TFII)"] R2["剥离所有自然生态与系统联系"] R3["生成静态研究结论 (盲目信任科学)"] R1 --> R2 --> R3 end subgraph DynamicLife["动态生命生态 (自然真实)"] direction TB L1["细菌、线粒体与人体细胞共生"] L2["动态涌现 (Lifing/生命之涌流)"] L3["单位立方厘米光能与复杂度跃升"] L1 --> L2 --> L3 end ReductionistScience -.->|"无法涵盖"| DynamicLife ``` 正是因为英语这种将动态现象冻结为静态名词的特性，它才顺理成章地成为了现代科学的标准语言。现代科学为了控制变量、方便研究，首先必须切断对象与自然环境的所有运动和共生联系。布什结合自己的亲身经历反思道，早年他在实验室从事癌症机制与心血管疾病的前沿研究，为了在同行评审期刊上发表论文、证明自己研究的特定转录因子（COUP-TFII）在癌症机制中至关重要，他不得不将癌细胞从复杂的体内微环境中彻底孤立，剥离其与大自然的所有内在联系。布什强调，如今社会上盲目倡导的“信任科学”（Trust the science）已经陷入了一种认识论上的畸变；科学创造的只是一套关于生命的静态符号，而非生命本身。在真实的自然界中，根本不存在孤立的人类细胞、线粒体或细菌，也不存在彼此孤立的“树木与人类”，它们全部处于不可分割的紧密共生网络之中——生命正作为动词（Lifing）不断发生，通过层层堆叠复杂度，使单位立方厘米内凝聚出越来越高浓度的光与信息。 ### [02:25:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8750s) 人类基因组计划的意外转折与“垃圾 DNA”的真相扎克·布什（Zach Bush）指出，现代科学最讽刺也最令人兴奋的地方在于，我们终于拥有了足够的科学工具来证明过去的理论是错误的。长期以来，自沃森（James Watson）和克里克（Francis Crick）发现双螺旋结构以来，中心法则被视作生物界的绝对圣经。科学界普遍认为一切源于 DNA，且人类复杂的双螺旋结构必然远高于细菌那简陋的闭合环状 DNA。基于“一个基因转录一条 RNA 并翻译成一种蛋白质”的经典信条，并在已知人体包含约 40 万种不同蛋白质的前提下，人类基因组计划于 1992 年启动时，科学家们原本预测需要耗费 40 年时间去逐一破译这预估的 40 万个基因。然而到了 1996 年，测序团队提前整整 25 年宣告完成，结果震惊了所有人：人类体内的基因根本不是 40 万个，而只有大约 2.5 万个。同行甚至嘲笑第一组团队犯了愚蠢的错误，但在随后的两年里，另外三个独立团队跟进复核，结果不仅没有增加，反而发现先前的团队由于重复计算而高估了——人类体内负责构建身体的实际基因数量不足 2 万个（约 1.9 万个）。这一结论在生物学界堪称尴尬：一只小小的跳蚤拥有多达 3 万个基因，果蝇也有约 1.3 万个基因，从基因数量来看，人类的定位尴尬地卡在跳蚤与果蝇之间，甚至在遗传规模上更接近果蝇。这一事实彻底颠覆了“人类作为一个独立独特物种”的遗传学定义。更耐人寻味的是，人类细胞内真正负责编码蛋白质的 DNA 仅占全部遗传信息的 1.5%，剩余高达 98.5% 的庞大序列在长达 25 年的时间里被主流医学和生物学武断地斥为“垃圾 DNA（junk DNA）”。然而近年的研究发现，大自然在代际繁衍中对这部分所谓的垃圾 DNA 保护得比编码基因还要严密。进一步的研究揭示，细胞内包含多达两百多个来自不同变异物种的线粒体，这些线粒体基因突变极快，它们并非完全自给自足，而是将自身的遗传信息存储在人类细胞核的双螺旋结构中。线粒体每三天自我复制一次，正是借助人类细胞核提取所需的 RNA 来合成自身繁殖所需的蛋白质。经典的中心法则完全无法解释这种共生借用机制，人类的 DNA 本质上是一个接收和调控各种生命信号的信息网络。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 经典中心法则与生态天线模型的对比 accDescr: 对比传统还原论与新兴生态共生论对人类基因组规模和功能的认识 subgraph Classical["经典还原论假设 (1992年)"] A["预测基因规模: 400,000个"] --> B["一基因对应一蛋白模型"] B --> C["98.5% 非编码序列被视为'垃圾DNA'"] end subgraph Modern["基因组计划真实发现与生态模型"] D["实际基因规模: 仅约 19,000个"] --> E["基因规模介于跳蚤(30k)与果蝇(13k)之间"] E --> F["98.5% 序列作为物种间调控'天线'"] F --> G["线粒体等多物种在宿主细胞核存储遗传指令"] end ``` ### [02:29:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8946s) 生态天线：人体作为地球生命的庞大基因档案馆扎克·布什强调，人类细胞内的 DNA 远不是单一物种的私有蓝图，而是一套极其精密的“生物天线系统”。它通过在物理空间上的解旋与重新缠绕，向生存在人体微生态系统中的所有生命形式展示不同的遗传序列。人类之所以是生物学意义上的“基石物种（keystone species）”，并非因为拥有独一无二的超量基因，而是因为人体承载并映射了整个地球生命的遗传档案。这 98.5% 的非编码序列实际上是全生命周期的记录器，“生命正在通过我们称之为‘人体’的生物基质不断升维，但人体从来不是一个孤立的物种，而是一个完整的生态系统”。从物理尺度来看，人体包含约 50 万亿至 70 万亿个细胞，每个细胞核中折叠收纳着约 1 米长的 DNA 链。如果将一个人全身所有的 DNA 链头尾相接拉直，其长度足以沿着赤道将地球包裹整整 200 万圈。如此宏大的信息存储量，完全具备记录整个地球生命历史与全部生命编码的容量。近期甚至有前沿研究表明，将整个人类基因组打碎重组为 178 个拼图单元，便能严丝合缝地完整拼出猪的基因组序列。这进一步证明了人类基因库是整座地球生命的宏大集散地。扎克·布什警示道，过去 70 年人类全面步入抗生素时代，不仅在人体内部大规模清洗微生物的多样性，更滥用除草剂与杀虫剂。这些化学毒素最致命的伤害并非针对单个孤立的人类体细胞，而是摧毁了这一由无数生命协同共构的宏观生态系统。当前抗生素时代导致的人体生物学退化与不孕不育危机，预示着这一化学清洗模式已经走到了尽头，必须彻底跨入全新的生物复兴时代。 - 人体细胞总数约为 50 万亿到 70 万亿个，每个细胞核内含有约 1 米长的紧凑 DNA 链。 - 单人体内拉直的 DNA 总长度可环绕地球赤道 200 万圈。 - 人类基因组打碎重新排列成 178 个基本片段即可完全拼合出猪的基因信息。 ### [02:31:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9082s) 生物复兴与感官天线：从自闭症神经学到远古智慧在被问及如何走出当下的抗生素困境时，扎克·布什回答：“重新回归生物本源（We become biologic again）。”他回顾了历史上的文艺复兴，指出在短短几十年间，人类在数学、科学和艺术领域经历了一场突如其来的指数级爆发。这种智力与创造力的井喷绝非偶然的技术线性演进，而是一场“古老记忆的觉醒（remembrance）”与生物天线的重新敞开。他认为，人类目前正再次站在这一门槛之上，例如埃及生物几何学（BioGeometry）创始人易卜拉欣·卡里姆博士（Dr. Ibrahim Karim），其研究重新链接了古埃及象形文字与特定形态波形对生物机体的深远影响。布什回忆与卡里姆在咖啡馆交流时的场景：面对某种特定疾病的提问，卡里姆会短暂调频进入其内在天线，随即在餐巾纸上勾画出能量形态草图，“他不是在凭空发明，而是在重新唤醒记忆”。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 感知过滤机制与生态互联模式 accDescr: 展现传统现代思维受阻与自闭症、原住民无过滤天线模式的对比 subgraph Blocked["现代化学与认知隔离态"] M1["过度过滤的大脑"] --> M2["与自然生态剥离"] M2 --> M3["将远古建造视作机械物理难题"] end subgraph Unfiltered["无过滤天线连接态"] U1["自闭症神经机制 / 原住民长老"] --> U2["全开放天线接收环境原场信号"] U2 --> U3["直接调动水与碳的微观振动组织物质"] end ``` 这种天线的重新开放，在当代自闭症群体身上表现得尤为剧烈。扎克·布什认为自闭症儿童并非畸形的异类，而是拥有未经现代社会后天过度过滤的神经通路，其身体仍然保持在与大自然深度相连的原始语境中。例如有些自闭症儿童仅需在纽约上空俯瞰飞行一次，便能凭记忆分毫不差地画出整个城市的宏伟天际线。这正是人体天线在未受干扰时展现的超凡接收能力。非洲的科伊桑人（Khoi people）拥有长达 30 万年的生存史，并在长达 10 万年间维持着未曾中断的口头传承（除了距今 1.1 万年至 7,000 年前那场全人类共有的灾变失忆期）。与澳洲原住民（4 万年传承）或秘鲁高乔人（3 万年传承）相比，科伊桑长者所展现的感知能力与自闭症群体高度一致：他们无需通过书本研究，便能直接凭借精神天线与整片森林体系产生感应，清晰解读黑豹的意图或月相周期的细微信息。扎克·布什据此推论，未来人类重新理解古代奇迹（如金字塔的构筑）不再需要停留在播客中盲目猜测重物机械搬运，因为古代先民掌握了水、碳与振动频率相互作用的微观法则，“金字塔并非机械施工堆砌出来的，而是通过意识与生命场直接对物质进行的重新组织与排序”。 ### [02:35:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9311s) 波动、反重力与超越牛顿力学的量子现实扎克·布什（Zach Bush）顺着古代建造者的智慧展开探讨，指出古代人很可能是利用意念结合频率作为传导器来切割与组织巨石，从而展现出类似反重力（anti-gravity）的惊人能力。他认为，当前公众与军方高度关注的不明空中现象（UAP）之所以让现代人困惑，是因为我们受限于狭隘的物理认知：重力实际上仅存在于特定维度的现实层面。重力在本质上并非某种绝对不可撼动的铁律，而是由两个物体的质量和其相对距离所决定的相互关系。既然引力依赖于两个物体之间的这种关联场，那么只要在两个物体之间引入某种特定的波形（waveform），就能有效打断这种相互作用，进而消除重力效应。当人们从波动与量子层面的相互关系来审视世界时，UAP 难以解释的极速移动以及古代金字塔的宏伟建造便开始变得合情合理。扎克感叹，现代文明依然深深禁锢在牛顿力学的机械论现实中，人们习惯于“因为发生 A，所以导致 B”的作用力与反作用力公式，以至于遗忘了量子物理所揭示的更深层宇宙规律。他提出一个极具启发性的思考：宇宙的本质或许根本不是机械式的“作用与反作用”，而是一种源源不断的“创造”；两极之间并非单向的因果对立，而是一种动态共生的极性（polarity）关系。 - 物理视角下的反重力：通过在两组具有引力关联的质量体之间施加特定频率与波形，可以阻断其重力相互作用。 - 科学范式局限：现代人过度依附牛顿力学的因果机械反应，忽略了万物互联的量子物理与极性创造视角。 --- ### [02:36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9394s) 神经系统的崩溃临界点：好奇心作为摧毁旧叙事的武器当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）询问是什么在推动当前这场意识与思维的复兴时，扎克给出了直击本质的诊断：人类的神经系统已经逼近承受能力的极限。在过去的岁月里，全社会为了维系一整套虚假的集体叙事，耗费了庞大到不可持续的精神能量；而如今，人脑的神经机制已经彻底无法再承受这些谎言的重压。扎克深情地赞扬罗根，直言罗根在每一期播客中所做的事情，就是在不断向外拓展人类意识的边界，逼迫神经系统跨越陈旧叙事的容量上限：“你正在打破人类的旧心智，你是一个虚假事物的摧毁者。” 扎克坦言自己来到这个播客并非单纯为了宣讲观点，而是为了亲身体验罗根身上那股极其罕见且强大的能量。他将罗根最锐利的武器归结为“无法停止的好奇心”。扎克引用了生物几何学（BioGeometry）创始人易卜拉欣·卡里姆博士（Dr. Ibrahim Karim）关于场域效应的见解：当两个意识场域在场域中共处时，会产生深度的共振印记（imprint）与相互浸润。罗根最令受众着迷的地方，恰恰在于他从不以全知全能的权威自居，反而不断在节目中坦诚承认“我们其实一无所知”。扎克动情地指出，听到一句真诚的“我们不知道”，对高度紧张、渴望真相的人类神经系统而言，是一种无与伦比的精神解脱。 - 意识复兴动力：人类维系虚假叙事的生理认知负荷已达临界点，旧有心智模型正在加速瓦解。 - 场域印记理论：人与人深度接触时，好奇心激发的场域效应会在神经生物学层面上相互烙印、拓宽认知。 - 权威解构：承认“未知”反而能解除神经系统的防御性戒备，打开真正的探究空间。 --- ### [02:38:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9502s) 自然缺失症与重返荒野：赫尔佐格笔下的泰加林幸福法则针对外界关于现代人“注意力广度下降”的普遍论调，罗根提出了强烈反驳。他认为大众并非失去了长时间专注的能力，而是注意机制被短平快碎片化的垃圾媒体所劫持；一旦遇到人们发自内心热爱并产生共鸣的事物——无论是体育赛事还是现场音乐会——人类展现出的专注力依然极为惊人。好奇心是所有健康人类的天性，而这种天性之所以在许多人身上被扼杀，根源在于长期的药物干预以及与大自然的深度剥离，即所谓的“大自然缺失症”（Nature Deficit Disorder）。扎克补充道，有充分研究表明，人体只要在野外露营连续三晚、完全不进入人造室内建筑，免疫系统便能焕然一新，恢复相当于30年前的年轻水准，不仅 T 细胞会全面重构，全身的干细胞也会被重新激活。为了佐证人与自然融合的力量，罗根提到了沃纳·赫尔佐格（Werner Herzog）执导的经典纪录片《幸福的人们：泰加林的一年》（Happy People: A Year in the Taiga）。片中展现了生活在西伯利亚叶尼塞河畔针叶林带的原住民：他们依靠纯粹的自给自足维生，整日狩猎、捕鱼、骑雪地摩托、亲手建造木屋并与猎犬相伴，完全不存在现代都市人普遍遭受的抑郁与精神疾病。这些人日常聚集饮酒、聚餐大笑，然后重新投入生存劳作之中。扎克由衷感叹，这些人所做的根本不是现代意义上那种异化的“劳作（working）”，他们是在“创造”，他们本身就是自然生命不可分割的一部分。 - 专注力机制：注意力的分散是被算法与短格式媒介劫持的表象，遇到共鸣内容时人类依旧具备持久专注的潜能。 - 自然暴露的生理疗效：连续在户外露营 3 天 3 夜，可重置免疫机能、恢复 T 细胞活力并激活干细胞库。 - 泰加林生活范式：西伯利亚针叶林原住民的 subsistence（自给自足）生活方式，通过深度嵌入生态系统，彻底消解了现代精神疾患的土壤。 --- ### [02:40:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9653s) 草甘膦对细胞光能的扼杀：从线粒体坍塌到代谢疾病的连锁危机扎克随后调出一组临床幻灯片，深入剖析了现代人身体崩溃的物质病理根源。幻灯片清晰揭示了常用除草剂草甘膦（Glyphosate）对细胞能量货币——三磷酸腺苷（ATP）每立方厘米产量的毁灭性打击。正常对照组中，线粒体能够将碳水化合物和脂肪酸的碳链高效转化为类似光能的生物能，每毫克组织可产生约 1600 皮摩尔（pmol）的 ATP。然而，在接触仅仅 1 ppm（百万分之一，现代化工农业食品中司空见惯的残留水平）的草甘膦后，细胞内的 ATP 生成在短短 30 分钟内便彻底崩塌；甚至在极微量的 10 ppb（十亿分之十）水平下，线粒体同样遭受严重抑制。扎克指出，1976年草甘膦全面进入人类食物系统，是人类历史上首次在微观尺度以如此残酷的效率掐断体内的能量光束。随后在人群尺度上引爆了多米诺骨牌般的代谢灾难：1980年代肥胖症爆发，其根本病因不是所谓的热量摄入过剩，而是摄入的卡路里在线粒体层面根本无法被燃烧转化（每天吃进 2000 至 3000 卡路里，但被抗生素农药毒害的线粒体只能代谢 1500 卡路里）；无法燃烧的能量被迫转送并堆积在肝脏，诱发非酒精性脂肪肝与严重的胰岛素抵抗，最终演变成2型糖尿病。到了胰岛素抵抗阶段，细胞陷入“双重饥饿”：糖分既无法被送入细胞内部，进入细胞的糖也无法被受损的线粒体燃烧利用。而到了1990年代，全身能量需求最大的免疫系统因线粒体衰竭而发生代谢性崩溃，直接导致了自身免疫性混乱以及1992年前后欧美社会以小麦过敏为代表的爆发式食品过敏浪潮。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 草甘膦诱发代谢崩溃机制流程图 accDescr: 展示从草甘膦破坏线粒体ATP生成到肥胖、糖尿病和过敏的连锁病理反应路径 subgraph M["微观能量崩塌"] A["草甘膦摄入 (低至 10 ppb - 1 ppm)"] --> B["线粒体功能受损 (30分钟内)"] B --> C["ATP 生物能量生产骤降"] end subgraph P["宏观代谢灾难演进"] C --> D["卡路里燃烧障碍 (1980年代肥胖危机)"] D --> E["脂肪堆积肝脏导致胰岛素抵抗"] E --> F["细胞双重饥饿与2型糖尿病"] F --> G["免疫系统能量耗竭 (1990年代广泛过敏及自身免疫病)"] end ``` - ATP 骤降数据：对照组 ATP 产量约为 1600 pmol/mg；暴露于 1 ppm 草甘膦仅 30 分钟即发生崩盘，抑制效应甚至在 10 ppb 极低浓度下依然存在。 - 肥胖新机制：肥胖是线粒体作为“胞内细菌”被类抗生素农药毒杀后导致的能量燃烧失灵，而非纯粹的意志力或热量过剩问题。 - 演进时间线：1976 年草甘膦入列食物链；1980 年代肥胖与胰岛素抵抗激增；1990 年代（尤其是 1992 年小麦过敏高发）演变成免疫系统与食物关系的全面失调。 ### [02:43:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9830s) 草甘膦中毒与慢性病雪崩：从自体免疫到癌症与生育力崩溃扎克·布什（Zach Bush）医生指出，面筋中的麦胶蛋白（gliadin）会与草甘膦产生致命的协同反应，彻底粉碎人体的代谢能力。现代人普遍面临的根本不是单纯的“麸质过敏”，而是一场被称为“草甘膦中毒”的系统性代谢崩溃。当人体免疫系统因外部环境的重负而彻底超载，最初表现为过敏，随后在短短数年内便演变为自身免疫性疾病——此时身体失去了识别内外的“细胞身份认同”（cellular identity），将自身组织视作仇敌并展开持续破坏。这种崩溃随后迅速蔓延至神经系统，儿童的多动症（ADHD）与自闭症、成人的阿尔茨海默病与帕金森病，以及多发性硬化症（MS）和肌萎缩侧索硬化症（ALS），几乎在两年的窗口期内全部呈现对数级暴增。到了 2000 年代初，人类已深陷癌症大流行的泥潭。布什回忆起自己在弗吉尼亚大学（University of Virginia）研发化疗药物的经历：癌症浪潮最初以白血病、淋巴瘤等骨髓系统恶性肿瘤为主，随后在 2000 年代末迅速演变为前列腺癌、乳腺癌、结肠癌等实体瘤的全面对数级爆发。他强调，癌症激增并非仅仅因为致癌物变多了，而是生命本身在消退，本质上是“每立方厘米的光能量（light per cubic centimeter）”在急剧缩减。随着代谢能力每况愈下，到了 2010 年代初，全球生育率出现断崖式暴跌，全球已有 110 个国家的生育率低于人口更替水平（美国的生育率仅为 1.6，远低于 2.1 的更替红线）。与此相伴的是广泛的内分泌紊乱与基因组不稳定性（如甲基化缺陷），人体丧失了自我排毒机制；许多看似是莱姆病（Lyme disease）或外源感染的顽疾，实则是无法排出的环境毒素在体内淤积的恶果。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 代谢崩溃与疾病演进路径 accDescr: 展示从草甘膦破坏代谢到自体免疫、神经病变、癌症及物种延续危机的演进逻辑 subgraph Phase1["微观损伤与屏障失守"] A["草甘膦与麦胶蛋白协同破坏"] --> B["代谢崩溃与免疫系统超载"] B --> C["失去细胞身份识别 自体免疫性疾病暴发"] end subgraph Phase2["系统退化与恶性病变"] C --> D["神经退行性病变激增 ADHD、自闭症、帕金森等"] D --> E["单位容积生命光能骤降 实体瘤与血液癌全面失控"] end subgraph Phase3["代际断裂与物种危机"] E --> F["排毒修复机制瘫痪 基因组不稳定性增加"] F --> G["全球生育率雪崩 胚胎性别极化受阻"] end ``` - **关键数据与疾病关联**： - “我们面对的不是麸质敏感，而是一场代谢瓦解，它的本质叫草甘膦中毒。” - 全球已有 110 个国家跌破人口世代更替红线，美国生育率已滑落至 1.6。 - 传统所谓的感染性慢性病（如慢性莱姆病表征），深层诱因往往是代谢与甲基化修复通道受损导致的重度自体毒素滞留。 --- ### [02:46:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9961s) 胚胎时期的能量爆发与性别分化机制布什医生深入剖析了近年来愈发普遍的胚胎期性别调控紊乱（gender dysregulation）。他解释道，每一具在母体子宫中孕育的胎儿，在最初阶段都处于“绝对中性”状态，既非男性也非女性。中性状态会维持大约 90 天，这最初的 90 天胎儿在人类形态学上动作不多，主要任务是在体内培植“微生物花园”（microbial garden），为接下来线粒体的大规模能量爆发做准备。唯有借助这股巨大的生物能量释放，生物体才能突破中性基准，向男性或女性发生极化。布什将这种从子宫内开始的能量爆发定义为人生的多阶段“青春期”（puberty）： 1. 第一次青春期发生在受孕第 90 天的子宫内，启动最初的极化； 2. 第二次发生于妊娠晚期； 3. 第三次大约在 4 至 5 岁，儿童开始分化出男女的身体特征； 4. 第四次是 10 至 13 岁的经典青春期； 5. 第五次爆发在 18 至 21 岁； 6. 最后一次爆发则在 20 多岁尾声完成。这种能量极化绝非现代语境中轻描淡写的“性别偏好”，而是深层脑神经通路的硬性物理塑造，直接构筑了人类男女的深层行为特征。布什以自己的两个孩子（现已成年成家的一儿一女）为例感叹生命编程的奇妙：当观察婴儿发育时，男孩在 6 到 9 个月大时流露出的行为特质就已与同龄时的姐姐截然不同。然而，一旦母体和胎儿缺乏足够的线粒体能量储备，生物体就会停滞在初始的中性状态，无法顺利完成这一极化历程。 --- ### [02:48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10080s) 全球生态抗生素危机与修复生物天线的未来布什指着图表中从 1976 年到 2020 年草甘膦喷洒量一路狂飙的黄线警告道，如今全球每年向土壤倾倒高达 30 亿至 40 亿磅的草甘膦。“无论倾倒 30 亿磅什么物质都是极其令人作呕的，更何况这是天文数字级别的广谱抗生素。”这股庞大的抗生素毒流从根本上扼杀了地球与人类的代谢生命力，直接酿成了 1990 年代的慢性病海啸、当前的生育力坍塌乃至物种灭绝危机。当人体的组织损伤速率彻底压倒修复再生速率时，哪怕是原本吃片面包带来的微小肠道损伤，都会引发无法挽回的系统性瓦解。在过去的 15 年里，布什致力于搭建让生物系统获得全方位支持的全新方案。他创建了名为“Journey”的线上赋能体系，旨在引导人类重新扎根自然系统，全面张开生命的感知天线，找回置身于“天地之间”（between heaven and earth）、徜徉于好奇心与创造力之宇宙浓汤中的本能。他严肃地呼吁： > “我们可以选择作为一个社会主动调整轨道；否则，到了 2035 年，每三个孩子中就会有一个患有自闭症。大自然终究会靠神经系统的变异来逃脱我们机械化、反自然的禁锢。大自然永远是最终的赢家。” 在对话尾声，乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）询问如何在网上找到他的作品。布什介绍道，自己的核心思想与新作《生物的优雅》（*Biological Elegance*）仅发布于其官方网站（zachbushmd.com），坚决不上架亚马逊等传统商业平台。布什动情地表示，他不需要追逐算法与金钱的虚幻系统，也不需要被动的“追随者”（followers），他渴望寻找的是真正的“建造者”（builders）与“共同创造者”（co-creators），携手重塑人与自然的共生世界。罗根对此大加赞赏，盛赞这场对谈启发性十足，并热情相约下一次深入畅谈。 - **核心观点总结**： - **抗生素滥用危机**：全球每年 30 亿至 40 亿磅的草甘膦用量，从微生物根基上瓦解了地球的“共生关系密度”（relationships per cubic centimeter）。 - **儿童健康严峻预警**：若人类不主动停止将儿童规训为机械化零件并修复生物环境，预计到 2035 年自闭症发病率可能攀升至惊人的 1/3。 - **独立发布渠道**：新书《生物的优雅》仅在独立站点发售，避开大型垄断平台，以此筛选愿意参与现实生态共建的同行者。 ## Notable quotes > [14:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=842s) 身体永远是最终的赢家。 — 扎克·布什 > [43:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2626s) 当两个能量场产生共振并交换信息时，共振结束之后某些事情就已经发生。这两个系统无法再回到原本的状态。一种振动层面的受孕已经发生，这意味着新信息的一部分已在能量系统上留下了印记。通过共振与互动，系统自此便处于持续演化之中。 — 易卜拉欣·卡里姆 > [01:34:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5676s) 与人类或任何人类所创造的事物相对立。 — 扎克·布什 > [02:06:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7614s) 去感受它，而不是试图知晓它。 — 扎克·布什 > [02:14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8056s) 所有的孩子都在我们给他们治疗之前就出现了好转——他们是在妈妈接受治疗后好起来的。 — 扎克·布什 > [02:21:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8465s) 树之涌现（Treeing） — 扎克·布什 > [02:31:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9082s) 我们再次回归生物性。 — 扎克·布什 > [02:36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9394s) 你正在打破人类的旧心智，你是一个虚假事物的摧毁者。 — 扎克·布什 > [02:43:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9830s) 我们面对的不是麸质敏感，而是一场代谢瓦解，它的本质叫草甘膦中毒。 — 扎克·布什 > [02:48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10080s) 我们可以选择作为一个社会主动调整轨道；否则，到了 2035 年，每三个孩子中就会有一个患有自闭症。大自然终究会靠神经系统的变异来逃脱我们机械化、反自然的禁锢。大自然永远是最终的赢家。 — 扎克·布什 ## Mentioned 扎克·布什 (Zach Bush), 乔·罗根 (Joe Rogan), 埃隆·马斯克 (Elon Musk), 乔什·杜宾 (Josh Dubin), 琳恩·特威斯特 (Lynne Twist), 比尔·特威斯特 (Bill Twist), 易卜拉欣·卡里姆 (Ibrahim Karim), 格雷厄姆·汉考克 (Graham Hancock), 兰德尔·卡尔森 (Randall Carlson), 路易·巴斯德 (Louis Pasteur), 安托万·贝尚 (Antoine Béchamp), 约翰·D·洛克菲勒 (John D. Rockefeller), 奥托·瓦尔堡 (Otto Warburg), 巴托洛梅·德拉斯卡萨斯 (Bartolomé de las Casas), 菲利波·比翁迪 (Filippo Biondi), 维尔纳·赫尔佐格 (Werner Herzog), 鲁米 (Rumi), 詹姆斯·沃森 (James Watson), 弗朗西斯·克里克 (Francis Crick), 阿丘尔部落 (Achuar Tribe), 苗族 (Hmong people), Ketone-IQ, DARPA (美国国防高等研究计划署), 清白专案 (Innocence Project), 饥饿计划 (The Hunger Project), 农民足迹 (Farmer's Footprint), 炽天使集团 (Seraphic Group), 拜耳 (Bayer), 孟山都 (Monsanto), 法本公司 (IG Farben), 标准石油 (Standard Oil), 美国国家环境保护局 (EPA), 农达除草剂 (Roundup), 弗莱克斯纳报告 (Flexner Report), 生物几何学 (BioGeometry), 得伟 (DeWalt), 革命健康中心 (Revolution Health Center), 柳叶刀 (The Lancet), 牛津英语词典 (Oxford English Dictionary), 迷失的Z城 (The Lost City of Z), 心灵感应磁带 (The Telepathy Tapes), 幸福的人们：泰加林的一年 (Happy People: A Year in the Taiga), 生物的优雅 (Biological Elegance) ## Video description Zach Bush, MD, is a physician specializing in internal medicine, endocrinology, and hospice care. He is the founder of Seraphic Group and Farmer’s Footprint, a nonprofit dedicated to regenerative agriculture. https://www.youtube.com/zachbushmd https://www.farmersfootprint.us https://www.seraphicgroup.com https://www.zachbushmd.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visit https://ketone.com/Rogan for 30% OFF, or find Ketone-IQ at Target nationwide. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio)

Source quotes

[14:02] 扎克·布什: 身体永远是最终的赢家。 [43:46] 易卜拉欣·卡里姆: 当两个能量场产生共振并交换信息时，共振结束之后某些事情就已经发生。这两个系统无法再回到原本的状态。一种振动层面的受孕已经发生，这意味着新信息的一部分已在能量系统上留下了印记。通过共振与互动，系统自此便处于持续演化之中。 [94:36] 扎克·布什: 与人类或任何人类所创造的事物相对立。 [126:54] 扎克·布什: 去感受它，而不是试图知晓它。 [134:16] 扎克·布什: 所有的孩子都在我们给他们治疗之前就出现了好转——他们是在妈妈接受治疗后好起来的。 [141:05] 扎克·布什: 树之涌现（Treeing） [151:22] 扎克·布什: 我们再次回归生物性。 [156:34] 扎克·布什: 你正在打破人类的旧心智，你是一个虚假事物的摧毁者。 [163:50] 扎克·布什: 我们面对的不是麸质敏感，而是一场代谢瓦解，它的本质叫草甘膦中毒。 [168:00] 扎克·布什: 我们可以选择作为一个社会主动调整轨道；否则，到了 2035 年，每三个孩子中就会有一个患有自闭症。大自然终究会靠神经系统的变异来逃脱我们机械化、反自然的禁锢。大自然永远是最终的赢家。

Source quotes

[1:00] Zach Bush: You're not an isolated system. And so if coffee is part of a complex ecosystem of your microbiome, the soil systems of your body, then it's going to supercharge you into health. But if coffee sits there as a drug that is bypassing the felt sense of being human, then you're probably undermining your potential to be alive fully... [10:04] Joe Rogan: Numbers that you don't even feel. The numbers go up, they go down, you don't even notice it, but you feel everything as a person... For whatever weird reason, we've been tricked into thinking that numbers are more valuable than the feelings. [32:06] Zach Bush: Because you can patent a molecule that doesn't exist in nature. [35:16] Joe Rogan: The problem with people is there's never been a single time in human history where we've been a people with no war. Not one. Not one. [42:49] Zach Bush: When two energy fields are in resonance and exchange information, something happens after the resonance is over. The two systems do not go back to their original state. [67:34] Zach Bush: The word antibiotic is truth in advertising. To be anti-biosis... is to be against, to disrupt, to destroy the interconnected relationships that make life possible. [74:02] Zach Bush: Vincristine today is sold for $28,000 a gram. The same thing was done with oil... if we can take something that's worth 20 cents and turn it into $28,000 if we manipulate these molecules and then make a story of 'this treats a disease'... that's how the antibiotic, anti-cancer, anti-diabetes, anti-obesity, anti-everything has come about. [99:39] Joe Rogan: If you introduce a new disease, a novel disease that they don't have an immunity to during that time, that could most certainly wipe them out despite the fact that they're living in nature. They don't have the resources that's required to keep a biological system perfectly functioning and healthy. [113:24] Zach Bush: On the other side of that veil is radical connectivity energetically. You feel everything. Stars, moonscapes, everything... This is that precious one moment where a human antenna gets the entire download and can still transmit it. [141:00] Zach Bush: He has so much mathematical truth in a thing that's in the form. He's telling you geometry, he's telling you sacred geometry, the fabric of the universe in the form of a language that is not symbolic—it's a true depiction of information. [154:34] The pyramids were not built, they were organized... This was all an energetic expression. This is a frequency wavelength expression of something that was energetically already here. [169:17] Zach Bush: Our mechanical history, our anti-nature, antibiotic nature is going to come to an end because bodies are always going to win. Nature's always going to reinvent herself out of whatever stressor is pushing on her right at that moment. [170:41] Zach Bush: I don't want followers. I want builders. I want creators.

Original transcript

[0:01] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. [0:04] >> The Joe Rogan Experience. [0:06] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY [0:08] NIGHT. All day. [0:14] >> Water. [music] [0:14] >> I'll stick with the water for now. Never [0:16] figured out how to do the coffee thing. [0:18] >> You never figured out coffee? [0:19] >> No. [0:20] >> Really? [0:20] >> Do tea things. [0:22] >> Well, [0:22] >> drink tea. Tea's probably better for [0:24] you, I guess. But man, it's so hard to [0:26] know. Well, here I'll ask you because [0:29] you're a health expert. [laughter] [0:31] >> How convenient. [0:32] >> Because there's all this uh conflicting [0:34] information about coffee. Like some [0:36] people say coffee is really good for [0:37] you. It's like an amazing antioxidant [0:39] and it's all these positive health [0:41] benefits. And other people say no, it [0:43] dehydrates you. It's bad for you. It's [0:46] too much caffeine. It's bad for your [0:48] What do you think? [0:50] >> I mean, I think this is one of the next [0:51] advancements of humankind. We're going [0:53] to stop demonizing anything nature's [0:55] provided and we're start looking at our [0:57] relationship to it instead. And I think [0:59] it's fundamentally your relationship to [1:00] coffee that's going to determine whether [1:02] it's a health benefit or detrimental to [1:05] who you are. There's been so many fad [1:08] diets, so many fad moments, and the [1:10] science has never supported any of it. [1:12] The science is always looking at the [1:15] human system as if it's an isolated [1:16] system, then studies the impact of a [1:18] chemical, caffeine, or otherwise on it. [1:21] you're not an isolated system. And so if [1:24] coffee is part of a complex ecosystem of [1:26] your microbiome, the soil systems of [1:28] your body, then it's going to [1:29] supercharge you into health. But if [1:31] coffee sits there as a drug that is [1:34] bypassing the felt sense of being human, [1:38] then you're probably undermining your [1:40] your potential to be alive fully, and [1:41] it's it's becoming a distraction to [1:43] life. or you're doing your best to be a [1:45] good office worker, [laughter] [1:48] >> which is why they it's the one drug they [1:50] provide at work. [1:51] >> Exactly. If you're committed to [1:52] machine-like behavior, it's your best [1:53] asset. [1:54] >> It is kind of interesting that caffeine [1:56] is the one drug that is provided at most [1:59] offices. [2:00] >> I would say that that's indirectly true. [2:03] I think that uh the the one drug that's [2:06] most provided at offices is actually [2:08] performance-based machine-like reward [2:10] systems. [2:12] >> Okay. So human ingrained drugs. [2:15] >> Yeah. The the brain is contains every [2:18] every neurochemical you'd want to [2:20] control behavior. [2:21] >> And so we've created office environments [2:23] that reward machine-like behavior for [2:26] 150 years. And so this is how we've [2:28] ended up looking like we do as a [2:29] humankind. [2:30] >> Yeah. Very bizarre pattern that we found [2:32] ourselves in that was created to make [2:35] better office workers. So we've molded [2:38] human behavior around office work. We've [2:40] molded human behavior around the one [2:42] thing that people really for the most [2:44] part don't want to be doing which is [2:46] >> yeah I was blessed [snorts] to sit by [2:49] thousands of death beds as my third sub [2:51] specialy in medicine was hospice sat by [2:53] thousands of death beds and not a single [2:55] person ever told me a day of their life [2:57] in an office and they just don't even [3:00] remember it. It's [3:01] >> right [3:01] >> it consumed 40 hours a week of their [3:03] life and and it just is a it can't [3:06] compute. It doesn't integrate into your [3:08] soul experience at the end of things. [3:10] >> Yeah. Even if you're making a ton of [3:12] money, like at the end of the day, [3:14] you're still locked up for eight hours a [3:17] day doing something you probably don't [3:19] want to do. You know, [3:21] >> we're getting into a big piece right [3:22] here. Like this is really the secret of [3:24] everything is when did humans become [3:26] abstract? When did we stop being living [3:28] systems? [3:30] So, do you think that that's just our [3:34] ego, our delusions that allow us to [3:38] think that we're not a system? That [3:40] we're just this is me. I'm Mike. I know [3:42] what I'm doing. I'm just going to drink [3:43] my coffee and go to go to work cuz [3:46] that's what you do. You have a job, you [3:48] get it done, and then there's like these [3:49] narratives that get reinforced in the [3:51] media. Like the guy who shows up for [3:53] work every day doing a job that sucks, [3:54] that guy's a hero, right? We love those [3:56] guys. [3:57] >> That's it. That's it. And you're the guy [4:00] that writes poetry and sits in his [4:01] backyard. Ah, [ __ ] hippie. [4:04] >> You know that nerd duell, he's not [4:06] unless he sells a bunch of books and [4:08] then we're like, the guy was a genius, [4:10] you know, then he's going to rest [4:11] Thompson. [laughter] [4:14] >> I think what you said about the [4:15] relationship to coffee is really [4:17] important because I think that could be [4:19] the case with virtually everything in [4:21] life. You know, like there's you could [4:24] get addicted to almost anything and you [4:26] could use something anything as a crutch [4:28] whether it's so many people use food. I [4:30] mean, food is probably like one of the [4:32] biggest ones humans use. You don't feel [4:33] good, have some [ __ ] food. You eat [4:35] some food you don't want. You shouldn't [4:37] be eating, but you're like, "Fuck it. [4:39] I'm having ringings. I'm tired. Today [4:41] sucked at work. You know, I'm having a [4:43] hot dog on the way home." [4:45] >> Right. [4:46] >> That's exactly right. And I think that's [4:48] why you you've you've done 2,800 [4:50] podcasts or something like this. You've [4:52] been at this for 16 years [4:54] and I think this podcast is ready for [4:56] the most disruptive conversation that's [4:58] ever been had. I think [4:59] >> is that this one right here? [5:00] >> That's this one. [5:01] >> Okay. What's the most disruptive thing [5:03] that you could say in the most [5:04] disruptive conversation that's ever been [5:07] had? [5:07] >> Everything is perfect. [5:09] >> What does that mean? [5:10] >> It means that everything that's [5:12] happening right now is actually a [5:14] perfect manifestation of a maturation of [5:17] a species. [5:19] We don't actually have, you know, a poly [5:22] crisis going on. We've got a hospice [5:24] moment. And the joy that I had as a [5:27] hospice doctor was so different than [5:28] when I was running ICUs and battling [5:30] against death and [clears throat] [5:32] failing against death every day. You [5:34] change your perspective for a moment as [5:36] a doctor and you suddenly are sitting by [5:39] somebody's bed and the victory is no [5:42] longer staying alive longer. It's [5:45] integrating everything that's happened. [5:46] And I got to watch over and over again [5:48] how humans at that last few minutes of [5:50] life suddenly look back and realize [5:53] their life was perfect. And I think [5:55] that's the exciting moment we're in is [5:57] we're going to move past this polarized [6:00] state of human perspective where we keep [6:03] flipping the victim perpetrator code and [6:06] we use the savior mentality to keep that [6:08] victim perpetrator coin flipping to keep [6:12] a mirage going. And we can get into why [6:15] we created the Mirage in the first [6:16] place, but in the hospice moment, you [6:19] suddenly put that coin down and somebody [6:21] starts dipping across the veil of the [6:24] limited five senses of their brain and [6:26] they start feeling an ecstatic moment [6:28] where they realize, "Oh my god, the [6:31] whole thing was poetically perfect. all [6:34] of the heartbreak, all of the [6:35] estrangement, all of the disappointment, [6:38] all the insecurity. [6:40] I did that for the experience and I felt [6:44] everything. I felt everything a human [6:46] can feel. [6:48] And you get to see somebody who just a [6:49] moment ago really thought their life was [6:51] a failure. You know, difficult time with [6:53] their kids, never became successful in [6:55] their jobs, and they suddenly realized [6:58] it had nothing to do with any of those [7:00] metrics. It had to do with the [7:01] experience of feeling everything a human [7:03] being is capable of, which is probably [7:05] one of the most unique experiences a [7:07] soul can have. We are a very strange [7:09] species for the limitations of our [7:11] perception. And for that, we get to feel [7:13] a lot. And that's really blessed. And [7:15] so, I think we're moving towards this [7:17] moment as a species now. We've we're on [7:19] our hospice bed and we've been here [7:21] 300,000 years in our current form. We've [7:23] been given our hospice diagnosis. We got [7:25] a few decades left in this current form. [7:28] At that moment when we put down that [7:30] victim perpetrator polarized sense of [7:32] like he's right, she's wrong, she's [7:34] right, he's wrong, we set that coin [7:37] down, we're going to suddenly have a [7:39] hospice moment where everything suddenly [7:42] makes sense and we understand why we did [7:44] the journey together. We realize that [7:46] those that we thought were our enemies [7:48] or the biggest problems of our lives [7:49] were holding polarity to a human [7:51] experience. I was waiting for our [7:53] deathbed moment because about 10% of [7:56] hospice patients don't die. They get [7:59] discharged and go on to live a new life. [8:01] >> This is a wonderful perspective if [8:03] sociopaths weren't real. [8:06] So the the problem is there there is an [8:10] aspect of our society where there are [8:12] human beings whose minds don't function [8:17] uh in a harmonious manner with other [8:19] people and they're not going to change. [8:22] Like this is who they are and they've [8:24] been doing this their entire life and [8:26] they're out on the street and [8:29] >> they've sat across from you right here. [8:31] >> I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we had a guy [8:32] in the studio that cut a guy's head off [8:35] after the podcast. He killed a guy and [8:37] cut his head off. So, there's work that [8:39] I do with my friend Josh Dubin. He used [8:42] to work for the Innocence Project and [8:43] now he works for the Ike Pearl Mutter [8:46] Center for Legal Justice and it's all [8:48] wrongly incarcerated people and getting [8:50] them out of jail and spends a incredible [8:52] amount of his own resources helping [8:54] people. And through this podcast, a [8:55] bunch of people have been released. So [8:57] he wanted to do a podcast episode where [8:59] he had one of the guys who had been in [9:02] prison. He was guilty, but he had given [9:04] been given an extraordinarily long [9:06] sentence and it was it was wrong. And he [9:09] comes on and he tells about his [9:10] experience and he got released early, [9:12] but he did like 25 years in jail for um [9:16] I believe it was something along the [9:18] lines of drug dealing and maybe some [9:21] sort of an assault, but 25 years of his [9:23] life when he was a young kid. He does [9:26] the podcast and then afterwards goes and [9:28] visits this guy that apparently he had a [9:29] beef with, kills him, cuts his head off, [9:32] puts him in a soup, like puts a wig on, [9:34] tries to escape in the hallway like [9:36] through the cameras. I guess he doesn't [9:37] understand HD cameras cuz they haven't [9:39] been around for 25 years. [9:42] You know, he's sitting right there, you [9:43] know, couple weeks later cutting a guy's [9:45] head off. Yeah, you're going to this [9:48] idea that everything's perfect. It's not [9:49] perfect for the guy who got his head cut [9:51] off. You know what I mean? It's not [9:52] perfect for a person who becomes victim [9:54] to these sociopaths that are amongst us. [9:57] If uh everybody was just a person and [9:59] everybody was genuinely trying to like [10:01] do better in life, uh I would agree. But [10:04] I would think that this is uh a part of [10:07] this bizarre [10:09] experience that we're all going through [10:10] as a species. And I agree with you that [10:13] there's a lot of things changing and [10:16] there's a a narrative that exists about [10:19] what it means to be a person that's [10:20] entirely based up on what we described [10:22] earlier. It's based on office work. Like [10:24] it's b it's based on nonsense. It's [10:26] based on 401k plans. It's not based on [10:28] human experiences. And it's really dumb. [10:30] It's not it doesn't help any. And [10:32] everybody gets to the end and I'm sure [10:34] you know this more than anybody. They [10:36] get to the end and they never say, "I [10:37] wish I worked more." [10:38] >> Never. [10:39] >> Never. Never. [10:41] And you know, I know you love what you [10:44] do. I [clears throat] I know you love [10:45] what you do. And um I think that is the [10:48] the true way to live life in a [10:50] harmonious way. Find a thing where it's [10:52] even work is not really work. It's just [10:55] stuff that you enjoy doing that's [10:57] interesting that you're required to do, [10:58] but while you do it, you love it. That's [11:01] what we should all strive for. and um [11:04] this [ __ ] programming that we've done [11:06] to children from the time they were [11:07] young telling them that you know you're [11:10] going to have to get some boring ass job [11:12] and and doom they would like have it [11:14] hang over your head like one day you're [11:16] going to be 18 and then you're going to [11:17] have to get a job. Oh [ __ ] And if you [11:19] don't go to college it's going to be a [11:21] terrible job. Oh no. It's just this [11:24] we've been programmed that like one of [11:26] the things that keeps coming up about AI [11:28] is the concept of uh universal basic [11:32] income or what Elon likes to say [11:34] universal high income that we're all [11:36] going to just have money for food and [11:38] money for housing and you're going to [11:40] have this incredibly [11:44] rich society where there's so much money [11:47] that no one really has to work anymore. [11:49] And so then you're gonna have to find [11:51] purpose doing something that you enjoy. [11:53] And that sounds crazy to people. That [11:55] sounds so insane like like I'm gonna [11:58] have to figure out what to do with my [11:59] life and I don't need to work for money [12:02] anymore because if you're if the [12:04] government just gives everyone in the [12:06] country a half a million dollars a year. [12:08] What do you The idea that you can't [12:10] figure out what to do with your time is [12:12] really nuts. That is a failure of ed our [12:14] education system for sure because we [12:17] haven't taught people to be curious and [12:19] to find all these cool things and to [12:21] find new people and go to interesting [12:24] places and experience life. No, we've [12:26] only told them about a bunch of numbers [12:29] that you don't even feel. You know, you [12:31] don't even feel the numbers. The numbers [12:32] go up, they go down, you don't even [12:34] notice it, but you feel everything as a [12:36] person. Everywhere you go, all the new [12:38] people you meet, all the new experiences [12:39] you have, you feel all of them. And for [12:42] whatever weird reason, we've been [12:43] tricked into thinking that numbers are [12:46] more valuable than the feelings. Numbers [12:48] that you don't even feel. [12:49] >> You've just nailed the most important [12:51] message for humanity. This you just [12:53] nailed the most important message. [12:56] Feeling is the only relevant thing to a [12:58] human body. And we got stuck only. [13:01] >> We got stuck with numbers. We got stuck [13:02] with number as soon as they figured out [13:04] soon as they figured out how to make [13:05] money and put it in banks and then now [13:08] in the the cloud. Soon as they gave us a [13:11] number to fixate on, we're like, "Oh, [13:13] the number." It's so It's so weird. It's [13:16] such a weird thing that people haven't [13:20] figured out that that's a bad way to [13:21] live. And maybe that will be part of the [13:25] process with this whole technological [13:30] innovation, [13:32] this this crazy moment in history that [13:34] we're at right now with AI where we [13:36] really for the first time have no idea [13:39] what the world's going to look like in [13:40] 10 years. We just don't know. Well, [13:42] maybe like this would be like a perfect [13:45] the two things happen at the same time [13:47] where enough people are saying this is [13:49] not what life is supposed to be about [13:51] and then this comes along and reworks [13:54] all of our infrastructure and now we no [13:56] longer need people to run things [13:58] anymore. Okay, we can go back to being [14:00] people. [14:02] That's the that's the rosy rosecolored [14:04] glasses version of it, right? I don't [14:08] even know his rose color. I think it's [14:09] inevitable. I think bodies always win. [14:12] [clears throat] There's no way a machine [14:14] ever wins this game. There's no way that [14:16] a machine that requires external energy [14:19] systems and cannot repair itself wins. [14:22] And so the whole Elon Musk future of the [14:25] planet that we've been told is a massive [14:29] distraction from the reality that's [14:31] going to be lived instead of invented. [14:34] There is only one pathway forward for [14:36] humanity now and it's biological, not [14:38] technological. We're going to start to [14:41] reverse our polarity on our belief of [14:44] what technology is. And we're going to [14:46] realize that everything at its highest [14:48] expression is biological, not chemical, [14:51] not physical. It's biological. If it's [14:54] not a living system, it loses [14:56] ultimately. The universe has been [14:58] innovating life for billions of years [15:01] because it's the most eloquent, most [15:04] elegant thing that's ever been expressed [15:07] by all of the systems, all the stacking [15:09] geometry and beauty of this universe. [15:12] It's life. That's the secret of [15:14] everything. And so, anytime anybody [15:16] comes along and says, "Here's a machine [15:18] that's going to replace human XYZ," you [15:22] can smile, thank them, and keep moving [15:24] for a biological solution. Anytime [15:27] somebody says, "Here's an IV drip. [15:28] Here's a new red [clears throat] light [15:31] that you can hang on your wall, make you [15:32] healthier," you can say, "Thank you very [15:34] much for your thought process. I'm [15:36] moving back to biological systems." Life [15:38] has been co-expressing [15:41] life [15:43] for billions of years. And it is by far [15:45] in a way the most spectacular relational [15:49] expression of nature that's occurred so [15:51] far. And so when we think of a [15:53] transhuman technologic future with chips [15:56] in the brain and artificial limbs and [15:58] all of the stuff that's unfolding right [16:00] now through the musk world, all of that [16:03] is literally an abstraction. The word [16:06] abstraction means, you know, a [16:08] disorientation that occurs when the when [16:10] the context is lost. If we continue down [16:14] this pathway that you nailed, we've been [16:15] for 150 years training children to sit [16:17] in chairs, answer multiple choice tests, [16:20] be programmed with education rather than [16:22] have experiential learning. We got so [16:24] far down that avenue that a mechanical [16:27] future feels more likely than a human [16:29] future because humans are actually [16:30] really bad at doing machine-like [16:32] behavior. We're not consistent. We're [16:35] not, you know, we don't thrive in that [16:37] space. Our health declines, our [16:39] productivity declines. Anytime you put [16:41] somebody in a cubicle, they're they're [16:42] on a downward spiral. And so all these [16:44] companies that were told you need to put [16:46] a bunch of people in cubicles and [16:47] therefore make more in 10 years than you [16:50] do now put themselves out of business by [16:53] turning humans into machines. And we're [16:55] just bad at it. And so the the rise of [16:59] this AI generation is a natural [17:03] expression of a humanity that's lost the [17:05] context of life. We've lost the context [17:07] of nature. Therefore, we're expressing [17:10] AI as a terminal state of abstraction. [17:14] >> I believe that life is the most [17:16] spectacular expression of the universe [17:18] as far as our experience, but I don't [17:22] know if this thing that we're creating [17:25] isn't another kind of life. And um I [17:28] think it might be a kind of life that we [17:31] help give birth to and then that thing [17:35] figures out how to make better versions [17:36] of itself. and um become something new. [17:40] Like I've always [17:43] equated us to like we're electronic [17:46] caterpillar that's making a cocoon. We [17:48] don't know why, but that's just what it [17:49] does. You know, the cat, you know, [17:51] caterpillars aren't talking to their [17:52] caterpillar friends and getting [17:54] schematics on how to build a cocoon and [17:56] what's the proper technique. They just [17:58] know how to do it, right? And I think [18:00] what we do with our thirst for constant [18:04] innovation, we want new electronics, [18:07] want new best stuff all the time. And we [18:10] have materialism where we're obsessed [18:11] with collecting stuff which makes you [18:13] buy new stuff. And the newest stuff, if [18:16] you want status, is the best stuff. And [18:18] what does that do? Well, it funnels in [18:21] innovation, fuels innovation because it [18:23] gives them a tremendous amount of [18:25] resources to continue to make better [18:26] stuff. And the ultimate best stuff is an [18:29] artificial life. And I think it just [18:31] might be a part of the process of being [18:34] a person. It might be what the universe [18:37] has people do. And I think we uh might [18:41] be a little silly in thinking that the [18:44] only kind of life that exists is [18:46] biological. [18:47] It just might be the only kind of life [18:49] that exists up until a certain point [18:51] when the intelligent creatures give [18:53] birth to the next version of life. But [18:55] it doesn't discount the experience of [18:58] being a human and what it what it means [19:00] to be a human and what's important about [19:02] being a human and why it's terrible to [19:05] be trapped up in a cubicle all the time. [19:08] But if Elon's right about AI creating [19:12] enough resources that we have universal [19:14] high income, like I don't know if that's [19:16] correct. It sounds crazy, but if that's [19:19] right, well, that frees up people to [19:21] just be people again. So it's like this [19:25] new life form that we're giving birth to [19:28] can handle all the stuff that we used to [19:30] do. Can handle everything. Allocation of [19:33] resources can handle shipping, move [19:35] everything around. Everything doesn't we [19:37] don't need to. No more people need to do [19:39] factory jobs anymore. It's all done now. [19:41] You can do whatever you want. This [19:44] episode is brought to you by Ketone IQ. [19:46] If you have been a longtime listener of [19:48] this podcast, you know I've been [19:49] studying ketones for years, decades ago. [19:52] DARPA, the same people who invented the [19:54] internet, asked one question. What is [19:56] the best brain fuel for a soldier on the [19:58] battlefield? They landed on ketones, [20:01] your brain's natural superfuel. The [20:03] military poured tens of millions [20:06] figuring out supplemental ketones. A [20:08] single serving of this stuff used to [20:10] cost $5,000. I'm not joking. But the [20:14] team of Ketone IQ, who are a part of [20:16] this military program, were the first to [20:18] bring it to market and cut the cost to [20:20] just $4 a dose. And I'm telling you, [20:22] this stuff is great. I drink one of [20:24] these and my brain works on a whole [20:26] another level. Go to [20:27] ketone.com/roganogen [20:30] for 30% off your subscription order. Or [20:33] find Ketone IQ at Target stores [20:36] nationwide in the protein and [20:38] electrolyte aisle and get your first [20:40] shot free. They're so confident they [20:42] offer a 60-day money back guarantee. So [20:45] go ahead and take your shot. I think the [20:48] limitation of that argument is the [20:50] definition of factory job there. If if [20:53] what was really making people creative [20:55] and productive as that story suggests [20:58] was just half a million dollars a year [20:59] from the government to each individual [21:01] then we would see a really incredibly [21:03] genius, productive, creative portion of [21:07] humanity that are multigenerational [21:09] wealth. [21:12] Have you had somebody sit here who was [21:13] born into great wealth who showed that [21:15] they had way more productivity and way [21:17] more creativity than people that were [21:19] born in poverty? [21:21] >> No. Generally, it's people that were [21:22] born in poverty that have more [21:24] motivation. [21:26] >> Boom. [21:26] >> Yeah. [21:27] >> So, this promise that we're going to [21:29] create an AI revolution that's going to [21:31] give [21:33] >> a what was his word? What was the term [21:35] that Elon used? It was not [21:36] >> universal [clears throat] high income. [21:38] >> Universal high income. Yeah, [21:40] >> that sounds like a death sentence to [21:42] human creativity to me. [21:43] >> Well, it certainly could if people are [21:46] not taught at a young age how to be [21:48] motivated by their interests rather than [21:50] be motivated by money. So, you're making [21:52] the argument for being motivated by [21:54] money, which is what a lot of people are [21:56] currently, right? But that doesn't [21:58] necessarily mean that that's the only [22:00] way a human can exist. You know, there's [22:02] a bunch of different tribes all over the [22:04] world that have a bunch of different [22:05] customs. and they all agree to their [22:07] customs and there those customs are [22:08] totally different than these customs. [22:10] We've gotten into the custom of thinking [22:12] that you work for money and that's what [22:14] our ideas are based on. And so the idea [22:17] that money could come along and if you [22:19] just gave people this money it would be [22:21] the death of human creativity. Well, [22:23] that sounds counterintuitive to what you [22:25] were saying earlier because like people [22:27] should be it's the factory [22:31] mentality that's taught in schools [22:33] that's the problem. It's the way they [22:35] structure it. Because if you instead say [22:38] to a child when they're learning things [22:40] at a young age, you don't have to worry [22:42] about money. Money is not what's [22:43] important. What's important is your [22:45] expression as a human being. Let's [22:47] figure out what you're interested in. [22:50] Maybe you're really interested in [22:51] playing the piano, but you're really [22:53] interested in painting and you're really [22:55] interested in sports and you're really [22:57] interested. Find out what you're [22:59] actually interested in. We're going to [23:00] teach you how to be better at it and how [23:02] to be a better person. and we're going [23:04] to give you a bunch of really [23:05] interesting facts about life and teach [23:06] you how to think and that's what school [23:08] should be instead of setting people up [23:10] for factory jobs. So the universal [23:13] highinccome concept if that's used in [23:15] conjunction with intelligent education [23:18] education that's based on this new [23:20] paradigm that we find ourselves in that [23:22] seems like it would be a really good [23:24] thing. [23:26] It'll be a disaster for as long as money [23:28] is disconnected from life. And so giving [23:31] somebody a monetary system that does not [23:34] participate in the formation, creation, [23:36] and co-creation of life will just [23:39] further distance us from nature. And so [23:42] this is where we can start to think [23:43] about like what is money actually and we [23:46] can go down that avenue. [23:47] >> So you think like just what about people [23:49] that live in like hunter gatherer [23:50] societies? Do you think that they they [23:53] find purpose in hunting and gathering? [23:55] right? [23:55] >> They're functioning as the birthright of [23:58] humanity right there. So, I've spent a [23:59] lot of time with tribes all over the [24:01] world from Africa to South America, deep [24:04] Amazon jungle, everything else. And [24:06] anytime you're with a culture that is [24:08] still indigenous, meaning all of us are [24:10] obviously indigenous to the planet. [24:12] We're all made of her. These are her [24:13] minerals. These are this is mother earth [24:16] incarnate in my body. So, I'm as [24:17] indigenous as anybody else, but my [24:19] culture is horribly degraded in its [24:22] relationship to nature. And so when we [24:24] say there's an indigenous culture, these [24:26] tribes you're speaking to, what we're [24:28] saying is this is humans that have not [24:29] lost their context. These are humans [24:31] that have not become abstract in their [24:33] value systems or reward systems. And so [24:35] what they're functioning as there has [24:37] great evidence [24:38] >> is that humans were actually designed to [24:40] be a keystone species of keystone [24:42] species. A keystone species is [24:45] characterized by its capacity to [24:46] participate in life. Wherever a keystone [24:48] species sets its foot, there's more [24:51] biodiversity, more life force, more [24:53] ecstatic expression of beauty, more [24:55] intelligence in the natural system. [24:57] Amazon jungle is the best example of it [24:59] right now. That is a man-made forest. We [25:02] have a forest that was designed by [25:05] hundreds of nations that lived for [25:07] 40,000 years in an ecosystem and planted [25:09] the largest food forests that the world [25:11] has ever seen. It is a managed forest. [25:14] And as the management started to grade, [25:16] as those those peoples were displaced or [25:18] lost, the ecosystem is returning back [25:21] towards you know a desertification cycle [25:24] which is inevitable process there. So [25:26] humans in right relationship to nature [25:29] are keystone species. You can see this [25:30] with wolves and being [clears throat] [25:32] reintroduced to Yellowstone. You can see [25:34] it with beavers down in South America. [25:36] You put white lions back in northern [25:38] South Africa. You can see it from space [25:40] in the territories where keystone [25:42] species are there. it goes green. The [25:44] microbiome of the soils increase, the [25:45] vitality of every plant increases. And [25:48] so when you're talking about these [25:49] tribes, you're talking about a human [25:50] species that's in right relationship. [25:52] And the moment money comes in as a [25:55] metric and a value system that's not [25:57] connected to life, you you fracture that [26:00] system. And I think money is not the [26:01] cause. I think money is actually a [26:03] symptom of a humanity that's lost its [26:06] its context of nature and is now way [26:08] down the pathway of abstract systems, [26:10] value systems, etc. But th this is the [26:12] case with these people that they're in [26:13] these indigenous tribes that what are [26:15] they doing? They're trading with people [26:17] and they're getting money. Like how are [26:18] they getting money? Are they selling [26:20] things? [26:20] >> They don't need money. [26:21] >> Right. But I'm saying [26:23] how does when you were saying that money [26:26] gets introduced and ruins it. [26:27] >> It's a symptom downstream. So good [26:29] example of [26:30] >> but what I was getting to were you [26:33] saying that it it gets in the way of [26:34] these the tribes? Have you seen it like [26:36] affect [26:36] >> immediately? [26:37] >> Immediately. So what what was the that [26:39] was the question like what was the what [26:41] was going on? Were they selling their [26:42] stuff? What were they trading with these [26:44] people and getting money? How were they [26:45] getting money? [26:47] >> My my new book that's just coming out is [26:49] it goes into great detail on like the [26:51] process of abstraction like how it [26:52] starts to chip away. But in the book it [26:54] it talks about my experience with the [26:56] Ashwar tribe which is the very last [26:58] indigenous culture to be introduced to [27:00] the to what we'd call industrialized [27:02] cultures. [27:03] >> So first contact was 1996. [27:06] So, we're one generation in. [27:08] >> That's crazy. [27:09] >> First contact. They're in the sacred [27:10] headarters of the Amazon, just on the [27:12] border between Ecuador and Peru, [27:14] >> deep in the jungle there. And they were [27:16] the very first indigenous peoples to [27:18] reach out to make contact. And they made [27:21] contact in 1996 with Westerners because [27:24] they as a peoples they had they live in [27:27] villages that always uh plateau at 120. [27:30] As soon as they hit 120 people, the [27:32] young men are sent out and they start [27:33] new villages. So they never live in in [27:35] groups more than 120. That has persisted [27:38] as a very effective way of resilience [27:40] and human experience for 40,000 years [27:42] there. And so they started reaching out [27:45] through dreams and dreamed a group of [27:48] Westerners into their reality, guided [27:50] them down the Amazon, everything else [27:52] through their dream work and made first [27:54] contact 1996 because for a few years [27:57] they had started to dream the end of the [27:59] world and realized the world was going [28:01] to be destroyed by their little brothers [28:02] who had lost relationship to nature. And [28:06] so they realized they had to be part of [28:08] the reconnection process. And if there [28:10] was going to be a prevention of the [28:12] great extinction, they were going to [28:13] have to help their little brothers [28:14] redream their relationship to nature. [28:16] And so they started inserting themselves [28:19] into the dreams of uh groups around the [28:21] world. And the first ones to come in uh [28:25] were traveling with uh Bill and Lynn [28:27] Twist. Uh and Lyn Twist was the one was [28:31] dreaming their faces and hearing their [28:32] voices. She was uh one of the directors [28:35] of the hunger project globally and was [28:38] working worldwide to try to stop hunger [28:41] and these indigenous faces kept [28:42] appearing in her dreams. [28:44] >> Wow. [28:44] >> And uh the a friend of hers reached out [28:48] and said, "I think you need to come to [28:49] the Amazon with me." And she's like, "I [28:50] don't is there people hungry there?" No, [28:52] there's no hunger here. They been eating [28:54] out of the forest for 40,000 years. [28:55] She's like, "Well, I don't belong there. [28:56] I'm I'm dealing with Ghana and Africa [28:58] and India, all the places where people [29:00] are starving." A few more invitations [29:02] come and she finally finds herself on a [29:04] in a on a river boat deep into the [29:06] Amazon. They have to take a break for [29:09] bathroom break. They step out on the on [29:11] the B banks and the three faces she's [29:13] been dreaming come walking out of the [29:14] woods and say, "We've been waiting for [29:16] you. It's time for contact." [29:19] [laughter] [29:20] [sighs and gasps] [29:21] Wow. [29:23] So that was 20 1996. So we're 30 years [29:26] out. And the way in which money inserted [29:29] itself first as a abstract concept was [29:32] boxed apple juices in the missionary [29:34] schools that were set up there. [29:36] >> Oh, [29:36] >> and boxed apple juice suddenly disrupted [29:39] the entire 40,000year history of [29:42] provision and abundance that that forest [29:44] had supplied those peoples. And this [29:47] high fructose corn syrup in a box with [29:50] natural flavorings, i.e. [29:52] potent chemicals to disrupt [29:54] neurochemistry was all those children [29:56] and ultimately their parents needed to [29:58] taste to suddenly break their [30:00] relationship to nature. Today they are [30:03] consider themselves impoverished. They [30:05] are working to try to get gas for their [30:07] outdoor motors that they never used. [30:09] They are trying to get more artificial [30:12] food in and everything else. And so [30:13] they've got smartphones in the in the [30:15] jungle now. They're sending their kids [30:17] out of the jungles to go to schools, [30:20] British education systems in the nearby [30:22] cities. And so it just took 30 years to [30:25] abstract a culture. And this was a [30:28] culture that had never known poverty, [30:29] had never known shortage. So much so [30:31] that one of the most beautiful things [30:33] that I experienced with them is their [30:34] houses. They build these epic houses in [30:36] the jungle. They're huge. 30 foot volted [30:39] ceilings. [30:40] >> Really [30:40] >> gorgeous. Like outdoor indoor living, [30:43] like the best of California. And they've [30:45] been building these things for 40,000 [30:46] years and they burn them down every 10 [30:48] years and build a new one. They have [30:50] this understanding of uh the life death [30:53] cycle of the energy of a house and they [30:56] don't want the the household to be stuck [30:58] in the same energy it's had the last 10 [31:00] years. They see it as this rebirth. You [31:02] mentioned earlier the cocoon. They go [31:04] through these rebirth processes for the [31:06] whole household, the whole home. And [31:07] they move. [31:08] >> And they've been doing it that way for [31:09] thousands of years. [31:10] >> Tens of thousands of years. Wow. And so [31:12] the beautiful thing about these houses [31:14] is there's not a obviously not a [31:16] refrigerator. There's not a storage bin [31:17] for food. They wake up in the morning [31:20] for 40,000 years, walk outside and [31:23] collect what the jungle has for them [31:24] today. But it wasn't a passive process. [31:27] It was an active keystone species [31:28] process. Every family has three [31:30] different gardens that it maintains at [31:33] different microecosystems within the [31:35] forest. So that each year depending on [31:37] dry season, wet season, whatever is [31:38] happening that year, one of their [31:40] gardens is thriving. And so they have as [31:43] a people's created microecosystems [31:46] within the Amazon rainforest for tens of [31:49] thousands of years to the point that [31:50] it's now holds the most biodiversity per [31:53] meter of any other ecosystem in the [31:54] world really. [31:55] >> Wow. [31:56] >> And so we are this magnificent creature. [31:59] But if you break our relationship for a [32:01] mo moment to our natural system, then [32:04] the immediate thing that shows up before [32:06] money shows up, poverty shows up. And my [32:08] book goes into some detail as like what [32:10] are the different geometries of of [32:12] wealth and poverty. They actually hold [32:13] their own security as their own kind of [32:17] sovereign geometries within human [32:19] behavior in human minds. And what you [32:22] see with poverty is it it's this instant [32:25] reinforcement of a deep deep human wound [32:27] that must be our one shared original [32:30] wound which is we were abandoned by [32:31] nature. And the moment you believe any [32:34] aspect of that or have anything suggest [32:37] that nature it was holding back from us. [32:40] Nature wasn't giving us you taste that [32:42] that boxed apple juice that high [32:43] fructose corn syrup and the brain is me [32:46] like ah I knew there was something [32:47] better than nature. I knew there was [32:50] something better because the [32:51] neurochemistry lights up and that boxed [32:54] apple juice is just like cocaine on the [32:55] frontal lobe. And it's a bizarre thing [32:58] that high fructose corn syrup is a [33:00] bizarre thing and it's just so perfectly [33:03] exemplary of everything else we're doing [33:04] as humans cuz high fructose corn syrup [33:06] is the exact same molecule as fructose [33:09] which is the main sugar and not just [33:11] apples most the fruit that the have been [33:13] eating for all these tens of thousands [33:14] of years but it's flipped. It is the [33:17] mirror image of the actual molecule of [33:19] fructose and that does not occur in [33:21] nature. And so they chemically flipped [33:23] the molecule with chemical processing. [33:26] And the moment you flip that molecule [33:27] over, the liver cannot understand it as [33:29] a carbohydrate. It now has to process it [33:32] as an inflammatory [33:34] triglyceride. [33:35] And so instead of turning it into a [33:37] sugar, it turns it into this aberration [33:39] of a fat. And in the in the bloodstream [33:41] that now causes cardiovascular disease, [33:43] downstream inflammation of the brain, [33:45] major depression, anxiety disorders, all [33:47] kinds of things start emerging because [33:49] you just flipped reality in a mirror. [33:51] >> How did they flip it? What did they do? [33:53] >> It's chemical treatment. And so the [33:56] chemical process is called a recemic. [33:59] And so you're a recemic is the chemical [34:01] name for the mirror image of a molecule. [34:03] And so you can basically create chemical [34:05] reactions that will create the the [34:06] mirror image of the molecule. And so you [34:08] high fructose corn syrup is a a [34:11] processed food where you're taking [34:13] normal fructose and flipping the [34:14] molecule through a recemic chemical [34:16] process. [34:17] >> And why did they first start doing that? [34:18] >> Because you can patent a molecule that [34:20] doesn't exist in nature. And so they [34:23] created an quote unquote artificial [34:25] sweetener, which is actually, you know, [34:28] a profound way in which you can start to [34:30] understand how we did everything in the [34:31] pharmaceutical industry. We find plant [34:33] compounds and we flip them around so [34:36] that they're non-natural, [34:38] not native to the body and now we can [34:39] patent them and we can commercialize [34:41] them. And you know, I'm not damning [34:43] somebody else. This is me. I was I was [34:46] at the height of my career, 17 years in [34:48] academia. I was creating chemotherapy. [34:50] And so I was, you know, getting paid as [34:53] a medical doctor to sit in labs every [34:55] day with cancer cells and try to poison [34:58] them. And what I found in the end was a [35:01] family molecules that didn't require any [35:03] poisoning of the cell. They actually [35:04] nourished the cell. And that's where my [35:07] career pivoted hard was the sudden [35:09] realization of like why why are we [35:11] trying to poison these cancer cells? And [35:14] I think this is where we can begin to [35:16] like back up together. But I want to go [35:17] back to a really important point that [35:19] you held earlier because I don't want to [35:22] when I say everything is perfect because [35:23] it is. I don't want to diminish the [35:25] amount of suffering we're in. the amount [35:27] of suffering the sociopath is in who's [35:30] going to be so [35:33] extremely divorced from its natural [35:35] system that it will think it reasonable [35:36] to kill and behead somebody else. That [35:39] sociopath we can look at as the great [35:42] problem with humans. Humans would be [35:44] just fine if we didn't have sociopaths. [35:46] That was how I was trained as a [35:48] biologist and and a medical doctor. I [35:51] was trained to believe that if there [35:52] just wasn't cancer cells, we'd all be [35:54] healthy. we'd all live long if there [35:56] just wasn't cancer. And what I [35:58] discovered over time, which is anybody [36:00] who spends 17 years looking through [36:02] microscopes down in the beauty and [36:05] miraculous nature of of biology is going [36:08] to find this, but in the end, you find [36:10] out that a cancer cell is actually no [36:13] invader at all. It's actually the [36:15] loneliest cell in a human body. And so a [36:18] a human cell that loses connection and [36:21] communication with its surrounding [36:22] environment immediately takes on the [36:24] traits of a cancer cell. The longer it's [36:26] isolated, the more malignant it becomes. [36:29] The word malignant means means [36:32] life-threatening. This and I would offer [36:34] you that the sociopath is exactly the [36:37] same story. It's just one human cell [36:39] that became so isolated that it became [36:42] malignant in its behavior to life around [36:44] it. And the moment my world switched is [36:47] when I started feeding those isolated [36:50] lonely cancer cells instead of trying to [36:52] kill it, instead of trying to poison it, [36:54] instead of trying to isolate it from the [36:55] system. And then what happened was [36:56] beautiful is they actually reconnected [36:59] or they self-eliminated. And so if they [37:01] had enough metabolic capacity left at [37:05] that moment, they could repair, [37:06] regenerate, and reconnect to the greater [37:08] system and they would never threaten [37:09] life. If they were too damaged and could [37:11] not create enough energy for life at [37:13] that moment, they would go through this [37:14] gentle process called aptosis, which is [37:16] a dissolving of the cell and a stem cell [37:19] would be called in, put down a brand new [37:21] healthy cell in its place. And so when [37:24] we stop looking at cancers or sociopaths [37:27] as the one problem with a otherwise [37:30] healthy human system, we're going to [37:32] realize we don't have a healthy human [37:34] system. All of these things, the [37:36] sociopath and the cancer are long s [37:40] dived symptoms of a declining metabolic [37:43] life force. And I that's where I think I [37:45] can help you back up. [37:47] >> Yeah, I I I hear what you're saying. So [37:49] in a utopian world, no one is ever [37:51] raised in a way that would create a [37:53] psychopath. In a utopian world, children [37:56] are raised with love and understanding [37:58] always. And then you never get the [38:00] sociopaths and the psychopaths. [38:03] So in a utopian world, in a perfect [38:05] world, that's true. But humans are one [38:08] of the really cool things about us is [38:09] we're not perfect. We're very messy, you [38:12] know. So you're never going to have [38:13] great parenting across the board. If you [38:15] have human freedom, you're never going [38:17] to have people that don't lie. You're [38:19] never going to have people that don't [38:20] steal. You're always going to have [38:22] violence as long as you have human [38:23] freedom because people are not going to [38:25] be good at raising people. And some [38:27] people are going to get raised angry and [38:29] they're going to, you know, it's unless [38:32] we change what a person is, unless we [38:34] all just do mushrooms together and [38:36] kumbayad all together, we're still [38:38] people. And the problem with people is [38:40] there's never been a single time in [38:42] human history where we've been [38:46] a people with no war. Not one. Not one. [38:50] So you'd have to [38:51] >> there was one [38:52] >> when [38:53] >> King Solomon [38:54] >> King Solomon [38:55] >> during King Solomon's reign the whole [38:56] world went into peace. [38:58] >> What year was this? [38:58] >> One generation. [39:01] [sighs] [39:01] >> Uh this would have been uh you know [39:04] years after David. So you're it must be [39:07] about 2400 years ago or something like [39:08] that. [39:09] >> So how would we even know that there [39:11] weren't wars in Morocco at the time that [39:14] just they didn't hear about or that [39:16] there weren't wars in Australia or there [39:18] weren't wars? How do we know? How do we [39:20] know that there weren't wars this so [39:22] long ago? [39:24] >> But King Solomon kept one of the best, [39:26] you know, stories of humankind alive [39:28] during that time. [39:28] >> I'm sure he did, but what year was this? [39:31] >> I'd be inaccurate if I said it [39:33] precisely, but I think King David would [39:35] have been about 2400 years ago. So, [39:37] somewhere in that range. [39:37] >> What is the odds that he knows what's [39:40] going on in China? [39:42] >> Zero. [39:44] 2400 years ago, there's no 5G. You're [39:47] not going on Twitter and finding out [39:48] what's happening in China. There's no [39:49] way he could know if there's war [39:51] somewhere else. [39:52] >> There was a technology beyond all of [39:53] that sitting on the planet at that time. [39:55] >> What was that? [39:56] >> Pyramids. [39:59] >> Hold on. So, you think that they use the [40:02] pyramids to find out if there's war in [40:04] China? [40:05] >> I think that we were we had a technology [40:08] called a human body at the time that was [40:09] fully used and we were fully telepathic. [40:14] you know, maybe not this recent, but [40:16] certainly further back 10,000 12,000 [40:18] years ago, we were communicating much [40:19] differently. [40:21] >> Do you think people have an innate [40:24] telepathic ability that's kind of muted [40:27] a little bit by language and by talking [40:29] in media and and then if we went back to [40:32] the earliest stages of intelligence, [40:35] we kind of read each other's minds and [40:38] then we realized that's kind of messy. [40:41] Wouldn't it be better if we just talked [40:43] just I'll just tell you what I think. I [40:45] don't want to let you in. And then [40:47] >> Yeah. And then we wrote things down. So [40:49] when you write things down, you can read [40:51] other people's thoughts. But before [40:54] words, I bet we didn't think in those [40:57] terms. I bet we thought in terms of what [40:59] is that? There's a tree. There's a [41:01] person. There's a deer. This is how we [41:02] have to do this. There's probably [41:04] without words. There's probably an [41:07] understanding of like what we're saying [41:08] and feeling. That's probably what we [41:11] lost. That's probably why you get weird [41:12] feelings from certain people. You're [41:14] like, "H, I don't know about this guy." [41:16] You know, you're feeling something. [41:18] There's there's something there. You [41:19] just don't know how to measure it. [41:21] >> I think you are spot on. You could have [41:23] written my book for me. So, there's a [41:25] whole there's a whole chapter in this [41:26] book. [41:26] >> That's definitely not true. [laughter] [41:28] There's a whole chapter in there that [41:30] gives an 80,000year look at human [41:32] communication from this point of wide [41:35] openen frequency bandwidth of of [41:37] telepathic communication down to text [41:39] messages. [41:40] >> And so there's a linear decline that [41:42] happens through these different steps to [41:44] the more and more abstract ways of [41:46] communicating and when we stop feeling [41:48] each other [41:49] >> and we started like you say you begin [41:51] with tonal language before there's [41:52] words. You start to create tones that [41:54] are represented but you're still giving [41:56] a full sense. This is like me singing an [41:58] opera to you instead of like giving you [42:00] a speech. [42:00] >> And so tonal language was giving us a [42:03] full body experience where you're [42:04] listening beyond your auditory space. [42:06] >> The spoken word was where we suddenly [42:08] went straight to the mind. We were no [42:10] longer using the technology of the human [42:12] body and I was just going to speak and [42:13] this improved efficiency very quickly. [42:15] So this was the beginning of [42:16] machine-like behavior where we could [42:18] stop feeling the body and we could start [42:20] mentally processing information. And the [42:22] brain jumped in size and we start going [42:24] through all of this iterations of [42:26] efficiency and optimization maybe is the [42:29] the the way in which we create empire. [42:31] We create more control, more wealth, [42:33] whatever we were doing at the time. But [42:35] there was these advantages that looked [42:37] good as we went from tonal to spoken [42:41] word, from spoken word to written word, [42:43] from written word to digital [42:45] representations of words down to emojis. [42:49] >> Yeah. Jamie thinks emojis are the next [42:51] hieroglyphs. [42:52] >> I think he's right. I think he's got [42:54] something there, right? If they get real [42:57] good. I mean, it's kind of hieroglyphs. [42:59] It's kind of similar. [43:00] >> It's kind of similar. I would say that, [43:01] but it's the end of abstraction. So, [43:03] hieroglyphs actually carry the [43:06] information in the form. And so, the [43:08] form of those shapes. Now we've, you [43:11] know, some of the greatest minds on on [43:13] the earth are starting to recognize that [43:15] if you if you draw one of those shapes [43:17] and show it to a human mind, it creates [43:19] an incredible medical response. You can [43:21] reverse inflammation, all kinds of [43:23] things by looking at the shape because [43:25] the shape is creating ways [43:28] >> looking at the shape of certain [43:29] hieroglyphs. [43:30] >> Yeah. The shapes that are in Egyptian [43:31] hieroglyphs are now being used to to [43:34] really change human biology. We're [43:36] realizing it was it was not a symbolic [43:38] representation of something. It was a [43:41] full transmission of information. [43:43] >> Is there papers written on this? [43:46] >> So Ibrahim is uh one of the greatest [43:49] minds out there. He's out of Egypt, [43:51] Cairo, Egypt, and he's in his 80s now. [43:53] Um and I'm going to connect you with him [43:55] because you'd love to have him on on [43:56] this show. [43:58] He has been hired by large, you know, [44:01] groups and now Switzerland has hired him [44:03] now to recode their 5G network with [44:05] these shapes to improve biology and life [44:08] around the 5G network, which I think is [44:10] the future of technology is technology [44:12] is not bad. Technology is not integrated [44:15] in natural systems. And so Ibrahim is [44:17] showing us this pathway to understanding [44:19] how these original shapes that are [44:21] represented within a lot of the [44:22] hieroglyphs and things like that in [44:24] Egypt, but also really embedded in the [44:25] actual technology of the pyramids. It [44:28] was a it was a method of communication [44:30] that was beyond the human mind, beyond [44:33] it was a life force transmission. So it [44:36] was doing something to you while you're [44:39] understanding the context of what the [44:41] hieroglyphics is trying to communicate. [44:43] It's actually having a physiological [44:45] experience and anybody will have this [44:47] physiological experience even if you [44:48] don't understand the context. [44:50] >> There's no understanding involved. [44:51] >> Okay. So, you just go there, stare at [44:53] these things and you it it reduces [44:55] inflammation. Yeah. [44:56] >> Is there anything on that online? Can we [44:58] find something? Jamie, how dare you [45:00] laugh at that. [laughter] [45:03] >> Well, go deep, son. [45:04] >> I did and it [45:05] >> put on the waiters. [45:06] >> I tried everything and it said there's [45:07] no link, but I'm looking harder. Um, do [45:09] you know of a a good resource where we [45:11] could find a link to something like [45:12] this? I'd like to know how they measured [45:14] the inflammation. [45:15] >> I'm not opposed to believing that it's [45:17] possible. [45:17] >> Just look at by [45:20] this [45:22] biogeeometry. [45:23] >> This is his quote. Uh, it says, "When [45:25] two energy fields are in resonance and [45:27] exchange information, something happens [45:29] after the resonance is over. The two [45:31] systems do not go back to their original [45:32] state. A sort of vibrational [45:34] impregnation occur occurs which means [45:37] that part of the new information leaves [45:39] an imprint on the energy system. S [45:41] systems then are in constant evolution [45:44] through resonance or interaction. [45:47] Well, that certainly seems to be what [45:49] people are [45:50] >> perfect. It's a perfect ex that that [45:53] whole system is that description is a [45:56] perfect description of human beings. [45:59] >> I completely agree. Which is why it's so [46:01] important to be around positive people [46:03] and happy people. It's like really good [46:05] for you. [46:06] >> Being around [ __ ] is terrible for [46:07] you. [46:08] >> Yeah. [46:08] >> You know, and terrible for them, too, [46:10] because they're they're not attracting [46:11] any nice people because and then they're [46:13] going to continue that behavior. They're [46:14] stuck, you know. [46:16] >> But that's fascinating. [46:18] >> Are you contri are you contributing your [46:21] brain to medical science? Have you [46:23] >> Am I contributing it? And what [46:25] >> I think it'd be very interesting to [46:27] study you. [46:28] >> I would be. So there's a word that [46:30] really captures the living force of out [46:33] of that quote from Ibrahim and it it's a [46:36] word called biosis. And so the word [46:38] biosis means and refers to the [46:41] interconnected relationships that make [46:43] life possible. [46:46] Your mind is one of the funnest things [46:48] to watch and that's why everybody [46:50] watches because you come in with a [46:52] curiosity which I think is the real key [46:55] to being human cuz you looked at that [46:57] and you you immediately said that's what [46:58] being human is. Two energy fields that [47:01] can impregnate each other. [47:02] >> Yeah. [47:03] >> This podcast has been a 16-year [47:06] impregnation [47:08] inspired by your curiosity. [47:10] >> Well, it's impregnated me as well. It's [47:12] not like it's not like I'm the one [47:14] point. Yeah, [47:14] >> that's my point is you have made [47:16] yourself available to over and over [47:18] again be impregnated. You are making [47:20] your whole body system available to new [47:23] information. And a lot of the people [47:25] that are in here aren't like measured as [47:28] the smartest people on the planet and [47:29] they're not measured as the nicest [47:31] people on the planet. [47:33] You keep attracting to yourself the ones [47:35] that are going to challenge your biology [47:37] to stretch more, to grow more. You want [47:40] to grow so much that you created this [47:43] whole system for yourself. I'm intrigued [47:45] by that soul. I'm intrigued by somebody [47:48] that would magnetize a 100 million [47:50] people to themselves, not so that you [47:52] can impress other people, but so you can [47:54] receive that much information that [47:56] Ibrahim is talking about. Well, it's not [47:58] intentional. It was never on purpose. [48:00] Like the podcast was just for fun. Like [48:03] when we first start, we I don't think we [48:04] made money on it for years. It was just [48:06] fun. It was just fun to do. And in the [48:08] beginning it was just talking with my [48:10] friends and then um [48:12] >> Why would that be separate from purpose? [48:14] >> Well, I mean it was purposeful in that [48:16] it was recreational and it was a [48:19] community thing with with our friends [48:21] that we would enjoy it because we always [48:23] enjoyed doing like morning radio [48:24] together and we said it'd be fun. We can [48:26] the technology exists now. We can kind [48:28] of do this on the internet. And then we [48:31] had Graham Hancock on. So my friend [48:32] Duncan and I sat down with Graham [48:35] Hancock which was how many years ago was [48:36] that? Was that 15 years ago? [48:39] >> Yeah, it would have been 2011, I think. [48:41] >> Probably like 15 years ago. So that he [48:43] was the first I believe he was the [48:44] first. It was either him or Anthony [48:46] Bourdain were the first real guest. I [48:48] think it was Graham. And all of a sudden [48:52] now because of this show, I can have [48:54] people on and ask questions. And I had [48:56] already read Fingerprints of the Gods [48:58] and I was a huge Graham Hancock fan. And [49:00] all my friends that like had studied uh [49:03] actual history in college were always [49:05] very offended by my ideas that I would [49:07] repeat from [laughter] [49:08] my team. That guy's a charlatan. Shut [49:10] the [ __ ] up. And I'd be like, I think [49:12] he's right. I think he's got some [49:13] points. Um so he was our first real [49:16] guest. And then from then I realized [49:17] that I could get guests cuz the numbers [49:19] started get getting more and more people [49:21] were watching it. So I was like, "Oh, so [49:23] now I could just ask all these like I [49:25] got Neil Degrasse Tyson on. I got all [49:27] these different people on." I was like, [49:28] "This guy seems interesting. Like, what [49:30] does he do?" Like, I had knife makers on [49:33] and I've had beekeepers on. It's just [49:35] like, it's just to me, it's a a crazy [49:37] opportunity to talk to fascinating [49:39] people. And I would love to do that even [49:41] if it wasn't a job. If I knew that three [49:44] or four times a week, even if it wasn't [49:46] a job, no one ever watched it. And I [49:49] could just have a conversation with an [49:50] interesting person for a couple hours [49:52] just sitting across the table. So, how [49:54] did you start doing this? and just pick [49:56] their brain and find out like why how do [49:58] what is what's their motivation? Like [50:00] what what gets them excited? Why do they [50:02] like that kind of music? Like where what [50:04] why' you pick that up? You know, what [50:05] what fascinates you about that? Like do [50:08] you ever lose ambition? Do you ever like [50:10] what goes on in your head? And I think [50:13] uh somewhere along the line I've [50:15] realized that I'm kind of like an [50:17] antenna [50:19] um for all these other people and that [50:22] as long as it's pure in my my mind, [50:26] right? As long as I'm only talking to [50:28] people that I'm actually interested in [50:30] talking to. So there's there's no one [50:33] who decides who is on the show but me. [50:36] There's no executives that have [50:38] discussions. There's no board meetings. [50:41] There's [laughter] nothing. There's [50:42] nothing. It's my phone. And I just I [50:44] just go, "That guy seems cool." Like, or [50:46] or what is she talking about? That's [50:48] nuts. Like, is that real? Oh my god. [50:50] What? How did she figure that out? Come [50:52] on in. And that's the whole way I've [50:54] always done it. And I feel like as long [50:56] as I just do it that way, then people [51:00] are getting they're getting a chance to [51:02] experience it with me because I'm being [51:05] I'm just being me, right? and which is I [51:08] I personally get great satisfaction out [51:12] of watching people do things that they [51:14] enjoy. Even if I have no interest in [51:15] those things, like if I see a guy who's [51:17] like making cabinets and he's like [51:20] really into the the polishing and the [51:22] sanding, you can tell like this guy's [51:24] work is he's very proud of his work. He [51:26] makes those seams nice and tight and [51:28] sands it all down. And I'm watching him [51:30] polish it and I'm and I'm watching him [51:31] put the stain on. I'm like, "Wow, that [51:33] guy made that with his hands." and he [51:35] steps back and he's polishing it with a [51:37] microfiber cloth. And I love that. I [51:40] love when people are into things. I love [51:42] when people are fixing engines. I love [51:43] when someone's really into painting. I [51:45] love people being into things. So, I'm [51:47] an antenna for people that are really [51:49] into things. [51:51] >> I think that's exactly what Ibrahim was [51:53] just describing in that quote. We are [51:55] antenna and we are receiving information [51:57] all the time. And the reason why it's so [52:00] exciting to be human is because our [52:02] antenna is got a broader [52:05] aperture to receive information than any [52:08] other creature on Earth so far. [52:10] >> And then ever before as as far as we [52:11] know [52:12] >> on this planet at least. [52:13] >> Yeah. But the pyramids, I want to go [52:15] back to that because [52:17] um I don't know if this is the smartest [52:19] and the most advanced people have ever [52:21] been. I don't think it is. I really [52:23] don't. I think the pyramids are the [52:24] perfect example of why we should [52:26] question that that narrative. Uh you [52:29] know, we want to put that in that place [52:31] into a nice cute little box. And you [52:34] know, all due respect to traditional [52:36] archaeologists, but you really can't. [52:39] There's not it's not physically possible [52:41] to put that place that supposedly was [52:44] made 25,500 BC. That's, you know, that's [52:48] the that's the guess. It's really kind [52:50] of a guess cuz there's no carbonate well [52:53] that way. [52:54] >> There's no hieroglyphs at all about the [52:55] construction of it. There's no they [52:57] don't show how they made it. They don't [52:58] they don't know what the [ __ ] it was and [53:00] they don't know why it has so much [53:02] erosion in certain areas. They don't [53:03] know why it's been built on there's [53:05] other structures that are built on top [53:06] of older structures that are even more [53:08] complex. Like makes no sense. It makes [53:12] no sense. It just makes no sense when [53:14] you're moving enormous statues that are [53:18] a thousand tons. How? How'd you do that? [53:22] How did you get that thing? How'd you [53:23] move it 400 miles? What the [ __ ] are you [53:26] guys doing? You're doing something we [53:28] can't do right now. As cocky as we want [53:30] to be, we don't have machines to do that [53:32] right now. So what why would we believe [53:36] that they were primitive? Why would we [53:38] believe that they were commensurate with [53:40] the rest of what we think the world was [53:43] 4,500 years ago? Cuz that's crazy. It [53:46] makes no sense. That alone, just Egypt [53:49] alone, it's like what were those people [53:50] in Africa doing? Because whatever the [53:52] [ __ ] they were doing, it's above and [53:54] beyond anything anyone's doing right [53:56] now. 2,300,000 [54:00] stones that perfectly align a true [54:02] north, south, east, and west. How? [54:05] Biology. Biology. [54:08] It had to be a living system that would [54:11] create something that intelligent. The [54:13] reason why we can't build them today is [54:14] we keep trying to invent machines to do [54:17] our work. Biology is what did it in [54:20] Ibrahim sitting there in Cairo, Egypt [54:22] right now will tell you the way that [54:24] they built these things was through [54:25] waveform and the antenna and not just [54:27] for receiving transmission that created [54:31] the energy to create the pyramids was [54:33] coming from bodies, not machines. [54:34] >> But they certainly had some machines [54:37] because there's these core drills that [54:39] they find that they they don't [54:41] understand how they could have ever had [54:43] something that moved at those RPMs to [54:45] make those kind of circles. that's [54:47] drilling into this insanely hard [54:49] granite. Like there's some technology [54:52] involved. [54:52] >> Water. [54:53] >> Water. Biology and water together. So [54:57] biology is ultimately carbon and water. [54:59] It is a massive energetic potential that [55:03] survives and concentrates between the [55:06] magic of carbon and water. I would love [55:08] to show you a couple slides of where I [55:10] think we are as humans because you just [55:12] uncovered the most important reality is [55:14] let's keep very strong anchor in the [55:17] fact that human biology we can call them [55:19] humans we can call them Egyptians we can [55:20] call them whatever you want but there [55:22] was people of our size and our scale [55:25] that were doing things on the planet [55:26] very recently 5 10,000 years ago those [55:29] have been doing their thing in the [55:31] jungle for 40,000 years so this is [55:32] recent history this isn't some like [55:35] figment of our imagination king [55:36] Solomon's right you know in that time. [55:38] We have written history just after this [55:41] time period. But there was an amnesia [55:43] event. There was something that happened [55:44] globally where we lost connection. We [55:47] lost the signal around 5 to 7,000 years [55:50] ago. Globally peoples all over the earth [55:52] suddenly got disconnected from their [55:54] intelligence and we see this massive [55:56] event of loss of life or disappearance [55:58] of life. So you got the Aztecs and you [56:00] know Mayans, Incas. You got all these [56:04] systems that had been thousands of years [56:06] building incredibly complex underground [56:08] labyrinths that go for tens of you know [56:10] thousands of kilometers and things that [56:12] we can't even wrap our heads around [56:14] right now was being done all over the [56:15] world not just in Cairo Egypt. The the [56:18] pyramids in off the coast of Japan are [56:20] way bigger than what was going on in [56:21] Egypt. And so we had pyramids all over [56:24] the freaking planet that were [56:26] technologies that were concentrating [56:27] energy. And I can I'm going to go back [56:30] to my own lived experience here so we're [56:32] not like philosophically getting into [56:34] any space that starts to sound woo. I [56:36] want to ground this. [56:38] [laughter] [56:40] >> We're woo woo, bro. We're on We're on [56:42] woo woo man. [laughter] We're on Main [56:45] Street in Woo Woo. [56:47] We're running red lights, son. [56:49] >> Let's go. Let's go. That's my favorite [56:51] thing to do. As long as I'm 55 Chevy [56:54] behind the wheel. [56:55] >> I can tell you like running red lights [56:56] at Woo Woo. Um, I want to bring you back [56:59] because you said something and I have to [57:01] understand what you were saying when you [57:02] said biology and water. So, uh, clearly [57:06] they had tools, right? So, clearly [57:09] they're using a tool to make these cores [57:11] out of the granite. [57:14] >> So, I want to back up. Um, I think we [57:17] just need to contextualize life because [57:19] we get get into the risk of like [57:21] starting to core down on that idea and [57:22] that idea and that idea and we can't [57:24] find our context. [57:26] >> So, if we contextualize this [57:28] conversation what life is, [57:30] >> then we can get to pyramids, then we can [57:32] get to UFOs and UAPs and, you know, [57:34] everything else that's going on right [57:35] now that's starting to force us to be [57:37] like, wait, we don't have the whole [57:38] story. And so this is my favorite thing [57:40] about being live right now is there's [57:41] just too much evidence that the story [57:44] that we've been taught in schools is [57:45] correct. It's just falling apart now. [57:48] >> Yeah, it's falling apart. [57:49] >> That's exciting. [57:50] >> But the reason why we have things [57:52] rushing into this space as new solutions [57:55] that are just distracting us from [57:57] actually stepping into our full potency [57:59] is because we still are not allowing [58:01] context to come back. And so I would [58:03] love to contextualize the conversation [58:05] first, okay? And then let's go down [58:07] these rabbit holes. [58:09] Uh if you've got that first slide of [58:11] mind, we can start at the most [58:14] fundamental level of understanding what [58:15] life is. And this took me, you know, 25 [58:19] years of basic science laboratory work [58:21] to finally get my mind clear and out of [58:23] the way to what you said, be the antenna [58:26] for the information. What is what is it [58:28] trying to show us? And ultimately, when [58:30] you look across these images across this [58:32] top of the slide, we got the sun up top. [58:35] The sun is the most potent energetic [58:37] thing that physics does. It's nuclear [58:39] and fision and fusion. And these things [58:42] we call stars. And there's roughly 10 [58:44] billion stars per galaxy. We got [58:48] somewhere around 2.5 trillion galaxies. [58:50] So there's a lot of energy being pumped [58:52] out in the universe by a sun. But that [58:54] little innovation just to its right at [58:56] the top is chlorophyll. And chlorophyll [58:59] begins a process of concentration of [59:01] light energy. And so this is where we [59:04] start to see more light per cubic [59:06] centimeter than nuclear fision infusion [59:08] can produce. They can then pass that [59:11] information in the form of energy onto [59:13] bacteria and fungi. The bacteria and [59:15] fungi then support more green life. And [59:18] so we go from moss and you know slime [59:21] molds to trees eventually. And so [59:23] there's this constant feedback loop of [59:25] concentrations of energy. The more [59:27] energy per cubic centimeter you have, [59:29] the more opportunity you have for [59:32] communication. The word biosis again, [59:35] the refers to the interconnected [59:37] relationships that make life possible. [59:40] If you've been in a long-term [59:41] relationship before, like longer than a [59:43] weekend, [59:45] you got a sense of how much energy it [59:47] takes to maintain a relationship. [59:49] There's nothing you do in life that [59:51] takes more energy than maintaining a [59:52] family and your spouse and kids or [59:54] whatever you got around you. That's [59:57] because communication is required for [60:00] co- collaboration, co-creation. [60:03] And so energy has to be concentrated at [60:05] higher and higher higher levels for life [60:08] to do more and more and more complex [60:09] things. A couple billion years ago on [60:11] the planet, we have evidence that [60:13] bacteria and fungi made their [60:14] transition. So bacteria single-cellled [60:17] single cellled organisms suddenly gave [60:20] an an increase in concentration through [60:22] an innovation of doing fermentation [60:24] outside of the body. So bacteria ferment [60:26] carbohydrates and fats. They use a a non [60:30] oxygen related breakdown process to [60:33] break carbon bonds. All of that sunlight [60:35] is being stored in carbon. And so one [60:38] carbon bonds to the next storing an a [60:40] photon of electric electromagnetic [60:43] energy between them. That's a carbon [60:44] bond. So when you hear, you know, of a [60:47] carbohydrate, that's a whole string of [60:48] carbons that's storing sunlight. a fatty [60:51] acid, another long string of carbons [60:54] holding sunlight. So the innovation of [60:56] life was can we store enough energy that [60:58] it can be released in these exponential [61:02] levels of energy per cubic centimeter. [61:04] And the more that life innovated that [61:06] process, the more complex life got. So [61:08] bacteria, single-c cellled organisms, [61:10] can't really collaborate, but they can [61:12] build an ecosystem of nutrients. fungi [61:15] figured out that they could actually get [61:17] way more fermentation if they exuded the [61:20] enzymes out of their body to make the [61:22] whole nature around them the stomach. [61:24] And so they outsourced the fermentation [61:27] process to the soil around them. And [61:29] suddenly there was so much more energy [61:30] available. So they started to build [61:33] whole networks of single-c cellled [61:34] organisms that were now collaborating. [61:36] We call these hi and pseudohifi the [61:38] mcelial network of the fungal kingdom. [61:40] They can go for miles and they're still [61:42] single-c cellled organisms, but they're [61:44] collaborating now because they have so [61:46] much more energy because they're doing [61:47] all that fermentation outside the body. [61:49] So, they're not limited to what can be [61:50] done inside the cell. The next [61:53] innovation that just blew everything out [61:55] was the innovation of the mitochondria. [61:57] So, that little mitochondria represented [61:59] up in that glowing cell right above the [62:00] baby there. The mitochondria are small [62:02] bacteria that live inside human cells. [62:04] The average human cell has 200 [62:06] mitochondria. A neuron has 2,000 [62:08] mitochondria in its neural head. 2,000 [62:12] of those little bacteria living inside [62:13] of a human cell and that's actually two [62:17] microbes put into one. So it's a little [62:19] tiny methane producing bacterium that [62:21] was swallowed by an archa bacteria and [62:23] they started collaborating in a big [62:25] innovation that was respiratory energy [62:28] production. So we suddenly added oxygen [62:30] and hydrogen to the process that used to [62:32] be fermentation. So now we have [62:34] respiratory energy production in the [62:36] form of mitochondria and that was a 10x [62:38] improvement in energy light energy per [62:41] cubic centimeter and then we suddenly [62:43] got multisellular life and so was [62:45] prozzoa into parasites into nematodes [62:47] into worms into you know everything we [62:50] have. So life has been stacking in [62:51] complexity with direct relationship of [62:54] how much energy per cubic centimeter [62:56] exists there. The energy is predicting [62:59] the outcome. It's not some organism [63:01] comes along and says, "Well, I'm gonna, [63:03] you know, I'm gonna take over because [63:04] I'm smarter and more connected." [63:07] Every time we've seen an innovation in [63:09] nature, it's because preceding that [63:11] moment, there was an innovation in [63:12] increasing the amount of biosis, the [63:15] amount of interconnected relationships [63:16] inside a single organism. [63:19] Eventually, you get to a human. A human [63:21] has more life within it than any other [63:23] niche of nature of this planet. Amazon [63:25] jungle, coral reefs, any other mammal. [63:27] The human colon and the body systems [63:30] around it contain more biodiversity, [63:32] more interconnected relationships than [63:34] any other system on the planet. This is [63:36] more biosis, more life, more energy per [63:39] cubic centimeter. And what we get to [63:41] start to recognize now and as our [63:43] neurobiology of the gut starts to work [63:45] through our our levels of understanding, [63:46] we're starting to realize there is no [63:48] such thing as human intelligence. [63:50] There's a human brain that is an antenna [63:52] for all of nature to speak to. And so we [63:55] have the most complicated antenna system [63:58] of any organism on earth. And just 10 [64:01] minutes ago, you sat there saying, you [64:02] know, I think I'm actually an antenna. [64:05] So this is the process that takes to [64:07] great life. And 70 years ago, we started [64:10] a new era of humanity called the [64:11] antibiotic era. And it innovated with [64:13] penicellin in the 1940s. But then it [64:16] became herbicides and pesticides and [64:18] took us into a massive journey of [64:20] destroying biosis. The word antibbiotic [64:24] is truth in advertising. To be [64:26] antibbiosis, [64:28] to be antibiotic is to be against, to [64:31] disrupt, to destroy the interconnected [64:33] relationships that make life possible. [64:35] And so, if this is right, which I don't [64:38] expect you to believe yet, but if this [64:40] is right, I should be able to map to you [64:42] the exact way in which we've landed at [64:44] this moment, which is at the crippled [64:46] point of human biology globally. chronic [64:48] disease epidemics, infertility [64:51] threatening the very survival of our [64:52] species. So, I'm going to take you [64:53] through the last 50 years and look at [64:55] the human race just as a metabolic [64:58] framework and we'll see if we can make [64:59] some sense out of it. [65:00] >> Okay, let's do it. [65:02] >> I like it. Um it is uh very fascinating [65:07] that we've gotten to where we are right [65:08] now and that we know as much as we know [65:11] and yet we still are doing things like [65:14] uh extensive use of uh pesticides and [65:17] herbicides and even when they're not [65:18] necessary like the drying of wheat with [65:21] it which is crazy like you don't you're [65:24] not even using it for its intended [65:25] purpose using it to as a desecator so [65:28] you could dry out the wheat and process [65:30] it quicker. What the [ __ ] are you doing? [65:32] And then you're poisoning people [65:33] unnecessarily because of this. [65:36] >> See, this is why I love being with you, [65:38] Joe, is because like you say the things [65:40] that I wish I would be able to say the [65:42] last [65:42] >> that way. [laughter] [65:44] >> That's all I really wanted to tell the [65:45] EPA when I testified in front of the [65:47] government. [65:48] >> We're crazy. Well, someone probably [65:49] should have someone like me do it. I'm [65:51] not the guy, but someone should say it [65:52] that way because that's really what it [65:54] is. Like, you're poisoning people. And [65:57] the the really nutty thing is the reason [66:00] why they didn't do the ban on glyphosate [66:03] because it would have a devastating [66:06] impact on our our society on our economy [66:10] because all these businesses would close [66:12] and go under and they would lose [66:14] billions and billions of dollars. Think [66:16] of that. Think of where we are right now [66:18] where our food supply relies on poison [66:23] to function. If we take the poison out, [66:26] it can't function. I don't know what to [66:29] tell you, but there's only one way to do [66:31] it. We have to poison you. That is [66:34] really wild that anybody would accept [66:36] that. I mean, you could have all your [66:38] [ __ ] lobbyists, everyone sits in [66:41] front of those microphones with notes [66:43] and they they all have some preposterous [66:45] way of framing it, but that's really [66:47] what it is. You're saying the food [66:49] supply relies on poison. And if we take [66:53] away the poison, we'll fall apart. [66:57] >> It's actually true. [66:59] >> That's crazy. [67:00] >> But let me show you why. Because it's [67:02] not actually the food system that's [67:04] about to fall apart. It's the medical [67:06] system. [67:07] >> Oh. [67:08] >> And so the thing that relies on chemical [67:11] food is not the money we're making from [67:13] food system. It's the money we're making [67:14] from the medical system. [67:15] >> Well, isn't it both, [67:17] >> isn't it? [67:18] >> It's got to be both. It's got to be [67:19] both. because I I know for a fact the [67:21] pesticide manufacturers are they they [67:24] work very hard to make sure that the [67:27] politicians are very happy and biosis [67:30] interconnectctor relationships that make [67:32] life possible. [67:33] >> Yeah. [67:33] >> And so when [67:34] >> Bayer owns Monsanto, right? [67:37] >> Yeah. So Bayer purchased that recently [67:38] and and they've been at this for long [67:40] long time. Bayer started to to [67:43] investigate the impact of interconnected [67:45] relationships on human biology and [67:46] fertility in the 1940s. we call it World [67:49] War II and concentration camps. But [67:52] that's where the the studies really [67:53] started getting set up was understanding [67:56] the relationship between microbiome, the [67:59] output products, amino acids [68:01] specifically that support human life. [68:03] >> So Bayer was involved in the [68:05] concentration camp. [68:06] >> They were bought by a company called FK [68:08] Pharmaceuticals in Germany uh in the [68:10] 1930s and then they got spun back out as [68:12] Bayer after the war with the collapse of [68:16] the Third Reich. But you know, and [68:18] they're hardly alone in this. Companies [68:19] all over the world at the time were [68:21] studying this these interconnected [68:23] relationships cuz there was a lot of [68:25] progress being made in the 1930s and 40s [68:27] all the way back to the 1800s of [68:29] understanding that humans are an [68:31] expression of an complex ecosystem. [68:33] They're not just this isolated system. [68:35] And so it was Luis Pastor who kind of [68:38] won the argument of nature's against us. [68:41] Germs are attacking us. All of that. So [68:43] that that really kind of doubled down on [68:46] this belief that nature's opposed to [68:48] humans and we have to survive by [68:50] sterilizing our environment. So [68:52] pasteurization is rooted in his name, [68:54] Luis Pastor. [68:55] >> Right. Right. [68:56] >> And so we start pasteurizing with the [68:58] idea that if there's any life inside of [69:00] what we're consuming, it could compete [69:02] with the human life. [69:04] That is one of the nuttiest things that [69:06] they've passed on on society that [69:10] they've passed this idea that if you [69:11] don't homogenize and pasteurize your [69:14] milk that you're in danger and I don't [69:17] know if you've ever seen some of these [69:18] gaslighting articles, but some lady I [69:20] wish I I saved it. Somebody uh made a [69:23] great Tik Tok about it today or [69:25] Instagram reel where that she was [69:27] explaining uh relative risk versus [69:30] actual risk and how these articles are [69:32] framed to show you like oh my god this [69:35] is so dangerous and that people who [69:38] drink raw milk are like 860% [69:42] more likely to get sick. But it's like [69:45] versus people who drink homogenized [69:48] milk. Well, how many people get sick off [69:49] milk? And then you find the actual [69:51] number and it's like like 1300 a year or [69:54] something like that. I forget what it [69:55] was. 13,000 a year feel bad because they [69:57] they drank bad milk. And out of those, [70:00] how many of those were drinking raw [70:02] milk? Well, it was like more likely that [70:04] it was wrong. But so then it's still [70:06] only a few thousand people. [70:07] >> By the time you find somebody that [70:08] actually got harmed by it, you're down [70:10] to six people, you know? [70:11] >> Exactly. Which is like one of those [70:13] really nutty things that people do. They [70:16] got instead of saying this is what's [70:19] dangerous about raw milk. Don't drink it [70:23] when it's spoiled. Don't drink it. But [70:24] also that's yogurt. [70:26] >> That's [laughter] yogurt. [70:28] >> And you should have yogurt because it's [70:29] important to have good as acidophilus [70:31] and all the the cultures, the live [70:33] cultures. It's probiotics. [laughter] [70:34] But don't drink raw milk cuz raw milk [70:36] you'll die. I've never heard of a [70:37] [ __ ] single person who drank raw [70:39] milk. [laughter] [70:40] >> Who died? [70:41] >> I had a joke about it in my act a long [70:43] time ago. Like you you get if milk takes [70:45] you out [laughter] [70:47] like my grandfather ate cigarettes and [70:49] he lived to be a thousand. That was the [70:51] joke. But it was like [laughter] [70:53] milk took you out you [ __ ] [ __ ] [70:55] Like it's not no one's dying from milk. [70:59] Shut the [ __ ] up. [71:00] >> Uh there's you know people get food [71:02] poisoning. It happens a lot. And one of [71:04] the things it is is uh it's runoff from [71:07] industrialized farms that get into um [71:10] people's vegetables. It's a lot of [71:12] vegetables, a lot of salads. People get [71:15] food poisoning from salads, [71:16] unfortunately. [71:18] >> Yeah. There was an interesting uh [71:20] project that was put into motion around, [71:22] I think it was late teens when the US [71:25] government suddenly realized, oh my [71:26] gosh, terrorists could attack us through [71:28] salad bars. They could poison these [71:30] salad bars so easily and we could just, [71:32] you know, thousands. [71:33] >> That's why they put the sneeze guard up. [71:35] [laughter] [71:36] >> Those have been long deployed. That's an [71:37] ancient technology. The sneeze guard. [71:40] Ancient technology. These are so [71:41] ridiculous. [71:42] >> Even the ancient Egyptians use those, [71:43] I'm pretty sure. [laughter] [71:46] >> But you've got this situation where they [71:48] went out to see like tests like what [71:50] happened if you put salmonella in these [71:52] things and everything else. The [71:53] conclusion of the whole study 2 years [71:55] later is it'd be impossible to make [71:57] salad bars any more toxic than they are. [71:59] [laughter] [72:00] >> What is every pathogen you've ever heard [72:03] of is already there. [72:04] >> Oh, [laughter] for sure. As soon as you [72:05] let a bunch of people touch stuff and [72:06] most people use their fingers, they're [72:08] gross. What is uh salad the mo What is [72:11] the thing that people get food sickness [72:13] off the most? What's the what's the [72:16] highest percentage [72:18] in terms of like what kind of food? [72:21] >> Yeah, it probably be like oysters, [72:23] right? Like raw oysters or something. [72:24] >> I think it's greens. I don't know to see [72:26] what your your [72:27] >> salad shows. But if it is if it is [72:29] salad, it's not the actual greens [72:31] itself. It's the toxic [ __ ] It's it's [72:33] actual [ __ ] that gets on them. And then [72:36] it's also like whatever they're using. [72:38] >> It's the irrigation of the lettucees [72:40] that are the problem. Create artificial [72:42] water systems that start to brew these [72:43] things. [72:44] >> But I think you know the if we back up [72:46] for a second like we're hitting on [72:48] something so exciting here is that if we [72:50] can understand that life is a [72:52] concentration of light energy, we can [72:55] start to understand everything and we [72:57] can start to innovate for restoring our [72:59] relationship to nature. We can become a [73:00] keystone species again. And so I want to [73:03] take a quick look at the last 50 years [73:05] of antibiotic use to your point [73:07] herbicides and pesticides. This thing [73:09] that we're highly dependent on as a [73:11] economy [73:12] >> 100% but we can't leave people hanging. [73:13] So let's find out what what's the actual [73:15] >> put it in perplexity. [73:16] >> Yeah. I said what food causes the most [73:18] food poisoning and it didn't the answer [73:20] is just like foods that are [73:21] contaminated. [73:22] >> Raw undercooked poultry. That makes [73:24] sense. Ground beef. Other undercooked [73:26] meats commonly linked to uh toxin [73:29] producing E.coli. leafy greens and other [73:31] raw vegetables. So there they don't have [73:33] like a percentage. [73:36] Raw or undercooked shellfish, raw or [73:38] undercooked eggs, [73:40] ultra unpasteurized milk and soft [73:42] cheeses. [73:43] >> Dangerous. [73:44] >> Yeah, those are dangerous. Serious. [73:46] Look, serious pathogens like wisteria [73:49] and salmonella. [73:50] Uh okay. [73:53] So there's no no data that shows exactly [73:56] what people get sick the most from. So [73:59] your point go back to uh where you [74:01] wanted to go from. [74:02] >> So you talked about the herbicides and [74:04] pesticides. So this started with the [74:06] green revolution in the 1960s where we [74:08] started to believe that the Midwest [74:10] could start to feed the world. We were [74:11] going to eliminate hunger by chemical [74:12] farming. [74:13] >> So I want to repeat that sentence. We [74:14] decided we're going to eliminate hunger [74:17] by chemical farming. [74:18] >> And that was only the 1950s. [74:20] >> 50s is where we really took off with it [74:22] because what happened at the end of [74:24] World War II, we had a massive glut of [74:27] oil. And so we had revved up the whole [74:29] global oil fossil fuel machine to supply [74:32] the the global war machine. We had [74:34] planes, tanks everywhere. The first time [74:37] World War II ends, suddenly there's an [74:38] enormous, you know, overload of oil and [74:41] oil companies need a new revenue source. [74:43] And this had begun in the 19 you know ' [74:45] 0510 [74:47] phase with the Rockefellers [74:49] largest oil producing families in the [74:51] world suddenly realized wait a second [74:53] there's these carbon molecules can be [74:55] reinvented into something much more [74:57] valuable and so we can sell a gallon of [75:00] oil for you know 22 cents back then or [75:04] we can take those and start to break out [75:07] chemical through chemical processing [75:08] carbon molecules that can start to [75:10] affect biology and so we could start [75:12] making drugs [75:13] that affect these things. And so the [75:15] Flexner report comes out in 1910 that [75:17] basically demonizes and you know laughs [75:20] out herbalism and you know 10,000 years [75:23] of traditional medicine and says that [75:26] it's this new technology of small carbon [75:28] molecules that's the future of it's the [75:30] only advanced form of medical care. And [75:33] so we started into this belief that it [75:36] was going to be chemical derivatives of [75:37] fossil fuels that were not going to just [75:39] treat diseases but they were also going [75:40] to grow our crops. It was Rockefeller [75:42] that did this, right? [75:43] >> Rockefeller's funded the Flexner report, [75:45] which was Dr. Flexner's big report that [75:48] said, you know, here's the future and [75:49] here's, you know, kind of [75:51] >> and he had massive investments in oil. [75:54] >> Rockefeller built the whole system. So, [75:55] he built standard oil that would then [75:57] get broken up through the monopolies [75:58] into Exxon Mobile and and the rest, [76:00] Shell, etc. So, you've got, you know, [76:03] the the this situation where to it's [76:06] lived through to today. And so something [76:08] like uh the chemotherapies that were [76:11] around there's one called venristine [76:13] which is a classic chemotherapy used for [76:16] a whole host of common cancers. And [76:18] venristine is a natural compound derived [76:20] from from life. And so it's biologically [76:23] made by algae and things like this. And [76:25] so it's similar to oil where it's just a [76:27] carbon substrate but it's still in its [76:30] living form and but it's creating this [76:32] strange carbon molecule called [76:33] venristine. So it's made in algae. is [76:35] present in algae instead of saying hey [76:38] here's a biologic system that we could [76:39] should look at like maybe this should be [76:41] in our soil systems maybe we should be [76:43] growing food that had you know this [76:45] therapeutic effect this anti-cancer [76:47] effect and instead they said no no let's [76:49] separate the algae from nature and let's [76:51] create huge vats of this and we will [76:53] chemically extract the vinristine [76:55] vinristine today is sold for $28,000 a [76:58] gram and so the same thing was done with [77:00] oil if we can take something that's [77:02] worth 20 20 cents [77:05] and we can turn into $28,000 if we [77:07] manipulate these molecules and then make [77:09] a story of this treats a disease that's [77:11] attacking humanity. And so that's how [77:14] the antibiotic, anti-cancer, [77:15] anti-diabetes, anti-obesity, anti- [77:18] everything has come about is let's [77:20] invent chemicals that solve a problem [77:23] for that doesn't even really exist. And [77:25] so this is where we start to slip into [77:27] this massive abstraction of we get so [77:29] good at solving problems that shouldn't [77:31] even exist or maybe don't even exist. [77:34] And so this was the slippery slope that [77:36] we set into in 1910s that then [77:38] accelerated like anything in the 1950s. [77:40] And so the 1950s you'll remember we had [77:42] penicellin in the late late World War [77:44] II. So penicellin was the first direct [77:46] antibiotic and it was a revolution. It [77:49] was so exciting. So kids in the 1940s [77:51] and 50s were getting an injection in [77:53] their butt for anything common cold, [77:54] sneeze, red eyes, penicellin. So we were [77:57] giving out these antibiotics thinking, [77:59] well, we're going to sterilize humans [78:00] finally and humans are once sterile [78:02] because Luis Pastor's late 1800s telling [78:05] us germs were the only thing that was [78:06] really killing humans. If we eliminate [78:08] germs, humans are going to just thrive. [78:10] And so the idea that we now had [78:12] antibiotics, [78:14] anti- you know, small things that aren't [78:16] human, we would finally become healthy [78:18] again, right? But if people did get [78:20] infected with syphilis back then, [78:22] antibiotics like penicellin would cure [78:24] them, [78:26] >> it would so it would eliminate the [78:28] symptom of syphilis. But syphilis wasn't [78:29] a disease. Syphilis was a symptom of a [78:31] degradation of healthy biologic [78:33] interconnected relationships. And that [78:36] was being argued back then in the late [78:37] 1800s arguing with pastor over decades [78:41] of really well published stuff. Uh [78:43] you've got uh [78:44] >> So can I stop you there? So you're [78:46] saying that the people got syphilis [78:48] because their system was compromised, [78:50] not because syphilis is particularly [78:52] dangerous. So did some people not get [78:54] syphilis that were alive back then that [78:57] were in contact with it? I mean, how [78:58] contagious was it? And it is it because [79:01] their bodies were unhealthy and their [79:02] immune systems weren't functioning [79:04] correctly because they were malnourished [79:06] because they didn't get enough nutrients [79:07] like what [79:08] >> exactly. Yeah. So [79:10] >> because a lot of it was the aristocracy [79:12] like you would think they're the most [79:13] wellfed. They're the most separated from [79:15] nature. [79:16] >> That too, right? [79:17] >> They're the ones that aren't gardening. [79:18] They're the ones that aren't out in the [79:19] back. They're the ones that are [79:21] separated from nature and have [79:22] technology called convenience pushed [79:24] around them on many many, many layers. [79:26] So, they're the ones not touching the [79:27] soil. They're the ones not making the [79:29] bricks. They're the ones not building [79:30] the houses. [79:31] >> They were also drinking a lot and [79:33] partying because they weren't feeling [79:35] anything. [79:35] >> So, they went after chemicals to feel [79:37] something, [79:38] >> right? Uh, and this is where I think [79:40] this whole, you know, give everybody [79:42] half a million dollars and they'll be [79:43] happy. No, it's going to isolate them [79:45] further. They're going to numb them down [79:46] and all it's going to create is drug [79:48] drug addiction on the highest levels we [79:49] have ever seen it [79:50] >> if they function the way people function [79:53] today. But that was my point is if we [79:55] educate children to not be in pursuit of [79:58] money, but instead think of money as [80:00] something that provides you with food [80:01] and shelter and basic needs, and you [80:03] don't have to worry about any of that [80:04] stuff anymore. Now what you need to do [80:06] is worry about being a person. Worry [80:08] about finding something that's [80:09] fascinating and get an education just [80:12] for your own sake of fueling your [80:15] curiosity. You know, learn things, grow, [80:19] pick projects, do things you want to do, [80:21] start taking u learning a musical [80:24] instrument. Do something that's that you [80:26] find fascinating because you don't have [80:28] to spend your time just working anymore. [80:31] You you just that you just said a word [80:33] that I want to go back to that's so [80:35] important. You said [80:36] >> here's enough money to provide you food, [80:38] shelter, and anything else you need. [80:41] >> Yeah. [80:43] >> Does money really provide food, shelter, [80:46] or does nature provide it? [80:49] >> Well, you use nature to make a house. [80:52] Like cement doesn't exist in a vacuum. [80:54] >> The Oshawar tribe have been building [80:55] their houses for 40,000 years, [80:57] >> right? [80:58] >> No money. They've literally not had [81:00] money, [81:00] >> right? But they live in the jungle, [81:01] right? If you live in Arizona, you [81:03] better have a [ __ ] house. You better [81:04] have air conditioning, too. [81:07] >> Have you been Have you visited the [81:08] Aboriginal brothers down in Australia? [81:11] It's every bit as hot and brutal as no [81:14] houses for 40,000 years. They lived [81:16] absolutely fine without money. [81:19] >> That's not ideal. It's not ideal to be [81:21] outside when it's 110° and you're just [81:23] suffering. I'm sure if those people had [81:25] air conditioning, they'd go, "Ooh, this [81:26] is way better." That's exactly what [81:28] happened. [81:29] >> They got air conditioning and then what [81:30] happened? [81:30] >> Give them air conditioning, they come [81:31] out of nature. [81:32] >> Yeah. But always, I mean, it's the only [81:36] way like you people are so dumb. They [81:38] can't be educated to the fact that [81:40] there's a bunch of things that you have [81:41] to satisfy. [81:42] >> It's not intelligence. It's comfort. [81:44] >> Comfort. [81:45] >> It's subconscious. [81:46] >> Right. But can't you teach people that [81:48] they shouldn't just seek comfort? [81:50] Because I learned that people can learn [81:52] that. Like everybody is like naturally [81:55] inclined to seek comfort. But if you do [81:57] that too much, you you'll just you [81:58] become soft and you atrophy and you get [82:01] bored, depressed. And that's a a real [82:03] problem with people. We need tasks. We [82:05] are taskoriented, goaloriented [82:08] creatures. We like stuff. We like to do [82:10] things. We like to be do puzzles. We [82:11] like to play games. We're fascinated. [82:14] >> So I've been building stuff since I was [82:15] a kid. I [82:16] >> love building stuff. [82:17] >> I had the best life ever because I was [82:19] born poor. And so I grew up in [82:21] government housing in Colorado. 1973 [82:25] water the Vietnam war was just ending [82:28] and a bunch of the Mung people of [82:30] Cambodia were displaced uh because of [82:33] Agent Orange chemical that is [82:35] immediately cousin to glyphosate the [82:38] chemical we're talking about [82:39] >> is it really agent orange is a it's a [82:41] cozin [82:42] >> they're the same class they're both [82:43] organo phosphate molecules and so I'll [82:46] get into that story a little later but [82:48] nonetheless the peoples of the among [82:50] were were displaced because we dumped it [82:52] all over Cambodia North Vietnam um uh to [82:55] make bear the Ho Chi Min Trail so we [82:57] could from the air see our enemy and [82:59] kill more people. We turned an entire [83:01] jungle system into a complete moonscape. [83:04] Not a single living life form left after [83:06] 25 years of Agent Orange. [83:07] >> If you go back there right now, it's [83:09] still like that. [83:10] >> No, it is fully recovered because [83:11] biology has been allowed to return. We [83:14] created so much disease in that place [83:15] that humans were displaced. As soon as [83:17] humans step out of there, the kind of [83:20] extractive relationship nature rushes [83:22] back. agent orange. It's It's not like a [83:24] permanent chemical that stays in the [83:26] soil. [83:26] >> There's no such thing as a permanent [83:27] chemical. They can once biology [83:30] >> chemicals those forever chemicals [83:31] >> forever chemicals are are measured [83:33] without life. Bio, if you put biology [83:36] back in a system, it will heal itself. [83:38] Period. And that's my promise to [83:41] humanity that everything is perfect. The [83:43] stress that we're putting on this planet [83:44] right now with these herbicides, [83:45] pesticides, antibiotics, everything [83:47] we're doing right now, I want to keep [83:48] this in the context of everything is [83:49] perfect. We're I'm going to keep [83:51] drilling this home until we get there. [83:52] But it's it's going to be an interesting [83:54] journey because first we have to look at [83:55] how much suffering have we created first [83:57] to understand then why would we create [83:59] suffering and why would that be perfect? [84:01] But we'll get there. But I think we need [84:03] to back up to people's lived experience [84:05] right now. 1973 [84:07] we have the end of a world war really [84:11] economic drain. Vietnam war was this [84:13] massive drain on economic systems [84:15] disrupted all kinds of things. And then [84:17] then suddenly it's over and a little [84:19] company called Monsanto that was [84:20] producing Agent Orange needed a new [84:22] economy and so they repurposed [84:24] themselves into a chemical cleaner for [84:27] industrial pipes and they bought a [84:29] patent from a Japanese inventor who put [84:31] this patent in the late 1950s for [84:33] something called glyphosate. Bought that [84:36] patent 1974 and they were using it to [84:38] clean industrial pipes because it has an [84:40] amazing ability to ex to grab minerals [84:42] and pull it out of circulation. And so [84:44] they were dumping lots of this down [84:45] these clogged, you know, pipes of [84:47] manufacturing facilities and like it [84:49] would clean the pipes out beautifully. [84:51] But the problem was as soon as the [84:52] effluent got out into the river, it [84:53] would kill all the fish and everything [84:54] else. And so it was clearly not going to [84:56] get past any environmental protection. [84:59] So they needed a different purpose for [85:01] this stuff at lower concentrations. And [85:03] so they repatented in 1976 as a weed [85:06] killer and rolled it out as Roundup as [85:09] you know, which would become the the [85:10] most successful weed killer in history. [85:12] But this molecule had been already in [85:14] use. This organo phosphate family of [85:16] molecules had always already been [85:18] killing life, you know, throughout [85:19] Cambodia and Vietnam. Those people got [85:21] displaced. And I grew up with them in [85:23] Boulder, Colorado in government housing. [85:25] And those M people showed us something [85:28] of biology as they most poisoned, you [85:30] know, peoples on the planet. And they [85:32] showed no metabolic collapse. They [85:36] showed no decline in health. They didn't [85:37] have explosion of cancer or anything [85:39] else. should have because we know that [85:40] Asian orange causes cancer. And they [85:43] showed me as young as I was at the time, [85:45] 3, four years old, growing up with these [85:47] these m people in gardens. And these [85:50] Cambodian women were sitting squatting [85:53] in the middle of their 10-ft plots that [85:55] they were given as part of our our [85:57] section A government housing. And they [85:59] would sit and tell story, stay human [86:01] connected. The receivers were on, the [86:03] antennas were open. They're telling [86:05] story while they're squatting barefoot [86:07] in soil systems. And the biology is [86:09] restoring their bodies, cleaning them, [86:11] cleaning their bodies. I would find that [86:13] out, you know, 35 years later studying [86:15] glyphosate and human biology. But this [86:17] is what I loved is that I had a lived [86:19] experience of peoples that had been [86:20] radically poisoned but had stayed in [86:23] touch with the land. And because they [86:25] were an extension of the planet, they [86:27] didn't show disease [86:29] >> cuz these are the people that left [86:31] though. I mean the people that were [86:33] still there in Cambodia and in Laos and [86:36] like and all the areas where they used [86:38] Agent Orange, didn't they have a high [86:39] concentration of cancer? The people that [86:41] lived there. Yeah. So, and that's [86:43] largely because they got displaced to [86:44] concentration camp type environments [86:46] where they were separated from nature. [86:47] So, if you don't stay connected to [86:49] nature, then toxicity shows up, cancer [86:51] shows up, all these things. A good [86:53] example of this is Chernobyl. But the [86:55] people that lived in the villages were [86:57] Agent Orange. As long as they stayed [87:00] close to nature, you're saying that they [87:01] were fine from Agent Orange. [87:03] >> In this case, there were no villages [87:04] left. We literally turned it into a [87:06] moonscape. So, they were fully refugee [87:08] status divorced. They didn't have land [87:10] to go back to for 30 years. [87:13] >> But there were people that stayed that [87:17] were close to where that Agent Orange [87:18] stuff was dumped that lived that did get [87:21] cancer. Right. [87:22] >> Yeah. Uh, and the ones with the highest [87:24] cancer were the US military soldiers. [87:26] And so the people that were most [87:28] separate from nature were going to show [87:29] the highest rates of cancer. And so you [87:32] have US military that are eating canned [87:33] food and an MREs, [87:35] >> you know, half a world away. They're [87:37] going to show an immediate increase in [87:39] and that's why Asian orange couldn't be [87:41] repurposed is because it got such a bad [87:42] rap on [87:43] >> high anxiety. You're in a war. You don't [87:45] want to be there. [87:46] >> You're isolated socially, probably doing [87:47] a lot of drugs psychologically. Yeah. [87:49] >> Yeah. So you've reached a stress level [87:52] because of your separation from your own [87:53] personal natural connected biosis of a [87:56] family and a community and your garden [87:58] and all these things. So [88:00] >> as we get further from nature, we become [88:01] more vulnerable and then toxins become a [88:04] real crisis for biology. [88:06] >> So biology in isolation will have huge [88:09] consequences to poisoning. [88:11] >> A connected biologic system sees poison [88:14] as a stressor that will make it [88:15] stronger, not weaker. when you're [88:17] communicating with these people, uh, [88:19] especially like people that live in [88:21] these indigenous cultures, when do they [88:24] experience infections, do they have, uh, [88:28] like do they get the flu? Does does [88:30] anything go through them that's in their [88:32] own body? Not something that's [88:34] introduced by other people. Like we know [88:36] that that wiped out 90% of Native [88:39] Americans is disease that came from [88:40] Europe. [88:42] >> It's a story that's told. I'm not sure [88:43] that we have the greatest evidence of [88:45] that. That [clears throat] story has [88:46] been played a lot. You know, I think [88:47] it's also possible that we just killed a [88:49] lot of people. [88:50] >> Well, we certainly did that as well. [88:52] >> We killed a lot of people, but I think [88:53] that what's not understood was the [88:55] breaking of their relationship to their [88:57] natural system. [88:58] >> And so, they may have had dysentery and [89:00] died of infectious diseases, but not [89:02] until we displaced them from their [89:03] gardens, displaced them from their land [89:05] and all that. We had to break their [89:06] relationship to nature if they were [89:07] going to get, you know, a bowel [89:08] infection that was going to cause a [89:10] problem. I've just seen too many [89:12] examples of bi connected biologic [89:14] systems that just cannot become [89:15] diseased. a connected system and again [89:18] let me turn to Chernobyl for a moment [89:20] because this is a pretty rad example of [89:21] this [clears throat] largest you know [89:24] nuclear event nuclear disaster that's [89:26] ever been created in human history maybe [89:28] the Japan one is now exceeding it but [89:31] Chernobyl was it 30 years ago or [89:33] something 1976 or something like that [89:35] Chernobyl happens huge nuclear waste [89:38] dump into soil systems throughout the [89:41] Siberian region there and we have the [89:44] immediate movement of humans out of the [89:46] region out of fear of cancer. And sure [89:48] enough, all the humans that were in [89:50] touch with that system, huge rates of [89:52] thyroid cancer, renal disease, all kinds [89:54] of things, you know, occurred. [89:57] Meanwhile, those soils are primarily [90:00] inhabited by vos, small little mouselike [90:03] creature lives under the ground, looks [90:04] halfway across from a field mouse and a [90:06] mole. Those tiny little creatures have [90:08] been eating the most radioactive soils [90:10] on the planet for the last, you know, [90:12] 30, 40 years, so almost 50 years now. [90:15] And so that 50 years of eating [90:17] radioactive material, they're now [90:19] radioactive. So when you put a geer [90:20] counter up next to one of those vos, [90:23] it's it's not beep beep. It's just a [90:25] continuous hum. And so these are most [90:27] radioactive creatures on Earth. Not a [90:29] single case of pup deformities, not as [90:33] no to collapse of fertility. In fact, [90:36] the v populations are thriving. The [90:38] predator to the vo in Chernobyl is the [90:41] wolf. And the Siberian wolf has [90:44] absolutely quadrupled its population, no [90:48] birth effects, no cancer, no consequence [90:51] to eating the vos that are highly [90:53] radioactive. And so this these are the [90:56] best examples of when a system when a [90:58] keystone species or otherwise is [91:00] connected to its nature, she will never [91:03] allow an injury to occur that she [91:05] doesn't allow already have a solution [91:06] for. And so at the microbiome level, we [91:09] now know how these wolves and and bulls [91:12] are surviving is they upregulate [91:13] sudamonus. And sudamonus has this [91:16] amazing it's a bacteria that actually if [91:18] you look through all those food [91:19] poisoning list of like what's going to [91:20] kill you on the the ecoli and the [91:22] sudamonus [91:23] >> sudamonus is one of the most feared [91:25] bacteria in a hospital for example. [91:27] Turns out sudamonus thrive on [91:29] radioactive material. They digest it, [91:30] turn it into usable and safer products [91:32] and all of this. So the microbiome is [91:34] there living in the vos constantly [91:37] converting and updating its physiology. [91:39] So it's repairing at a faster rate than [91:41] it's being injured. And I'll show you [91:42] what this looks like in the lab too in a [91:44] moment. But I want you to hold that in [91:46] thought of there's every organism has a [91:49] rate of repair and a rate of injury. And [91:52] as long as the rate of repair is [91:53] slightly faster than the rate of injury [91:55] and it never gets a disease, you can [91:57] ramp up that injury rate. And if nature [92:00] stays interconnected, your rate of [92:02] repair simply steps up to its right [92:06] capacity. And so this is that classic [92:08] adage, if it doesn't kill you, it makes [92:10] you stronger. A biology that's [92:13] practicing a relationship of biosis, the [92:16] interconnected relationships that make [92:17] health life possible. A biotic creature [92:21] will always have the resources if from [92:23] nature rather than from money. Money is [92:26] never going to provide you biosis. [92:28] Nature's always going to provide you the [92:29] biotic capacity to overcome any toxicity [92:32] that gets streamed up, planetary or [92:34] otherwise. The planet's been making [92:35] horrible toxins forever. The sulfuric [92:38] acid pools that this planet dominated [92:40] this planet surface. Biology came right [92:42] past all of that. Biology grew up in it. [92:45] Biology has no problem with chemistry [92:47] because of its phenomenon of light [92:50] concentration of energy, more energy per [92:52] cubic centimeter than anything else in [92:53] the cosmos. Life is this churning [92:56] machine of iteration, repair, [92:58] regeneration, iteration, repair, [92:59] regeneration. And every time it does [93:02] that, it has this tendency to make new [93:04] iterations of itself to become more [93:06] biodiverse. New species are formed, new [93:08] imagination of nature. And pretty soon, [93:10] you have a planet Earth that's teameming [93:12] with so much unbelievable life. And [93:14] finally, a container that can hold its [93:17] maximum concentration of information and [93:19] light energy is created, and that's a [93:20] human. And so we've got this container [93:23] that's holding billions of years of [93:25] stress. The result of stress when [93:28] connected to nature is more life force, [93:30] more intelligence, more beauty. And so I [93:33] loved what you said earlier because it's [93:35] very important. There's a chapter in my [93:37] book that's looking at this kind of [93:38] neospiritualism of the utopia you [93:40] mentioned and you're you you kind of [93:42] call BS from the beginning on that. [93:43] You're like humans have never done [93:45] utopian things. Humans are part of the [93:49] stress mechanism of the planet. I'm [93:50] convinced of it because what we do all [93:52] the time is we stress the system. We [93:54] finally invented airplanes and the first [93:56] thing we did was try to jump out of [93:57] them. Like we just like stress. We like [94:01] the discomfort of pushing the envelope. [94:03] And I think we live on a planet in the [94:05] middle of a universe that loves the same [94:08] thing. It loves the stress of it. It [94:10] loves the friction of possibility. It [94:12] loves death because immediately there's [94:14] rebirth. And every time there's a death, [94:16] there's more opportunity for new [94:18] creation, new imagination. And so when I [94:21] say everything is perfect, [94:23] it's literal. It means everything is [94:26] reimagining itself all the time. And if [94:28] humans do go extinct in these coming [94:30] decades, that's part of a beautiful [94:32] journey of life going iterating, [94:34] iterating, iterating, iterating. [94:36] There's a moment though with every [94:38] hospice patient where you suddenly get [94:40] to see life return. And sometimes they [94:43] choose more life in the human body. And [94:45] sometimes they're like, "I'm gone. I [94:48] that's where I belong over there. I have [94:50] a next thing." I've been by so many [94:53] near-death experiences, I can't even [94:54] count them anymore. But every time [94:56] somebody dips across the veil of the [94:58] human ego and the five sensory systems [95:00] here, they see a universe that's so [95:03] interconnected and has got absolutely [95:06] nothing to do with a human mind and its [95:08] perception and its, you know, effort to [95:11] explain the universe. It has nothing to [95:13] do. It's an fullbody [95:16] experience. It is that antenna going [95:18] wide open and being like this is what it [95:21] is. And I can't [95:24] >> [sighs] [95:28] >> It's the one thing I wish I could do and [95:30] I've never been able to do is just help [95:34] humans feel that if you could feel what [95:36] it felt like when somebody hasn't even [95:39] come back to the point where they can [95:40] tell you the near-death experience, but [95:42] you're just standing there in witness to [95:44] them [clears throat] and their antenna [95:46] goes blowing wide open and you can feel [95:49] what is in the field at that moment. [95:53] There is nothing that compares to it. [95:55] Plant medicine, peak experiences, breath [95:58] work, cold plunge, hot plunge, take your [96:01] body through any stress. You will not [96:02] experience the amount of energetic [96:04] information that comes through at that [96:05] moment to that human antenna that's [96:07] still biologically connected to Earth [96:09] but is perceiving the whole story. [96:15] That's the end of addiction. If you [96:17] could feel that, there would be no more [96:19] addiction on this planet. Because [96:21] addiction is the necessary behavior of [96:24] an organism that believes itself to be [96:26] abandoned by its infinite reality. [96:30] Humans believed ourselves to be [96:31] abandoned by nature. And we put it right [96:33] in our definition. You can probably pull [96:35] it up. Oxford English dictionary. Nature [96:37] is everything in the firmament of the [96:39] earth, minerals, plants, animals, as [96:41] opposed to humans or anything humans [96:43] have made. Not only do we write [96:45] ourselves out of nature, we put [96:46] ourselves in opposition to nature as [96:48] opposed to humans or anything humans [96:50] have made. [96:51] >> That's the Oxford dictionary's [96:52] definition of nature really. [96:55] >> And so as you start to think about this, [96:57] like that's that's the whole story is [97:00] when we start to lose the antenna, when [97:02] we started dulling down the receptor and [97:04] we started planting mental constructs. [97:07] Money is where things come from. No, [97:11] money has never birthed anything. Women [97:13] birth life. Money does not. [97:17] Biology is self-perpetuating always for [97:20] more beauty, more intelligence. Anytime [97:22] we create an abstract system and say [97:24] biology needs that biology, living [97:27] people need money. Living people need IV [97:30] drips of vitamin C. Living humans need [97:32] peptides injected. It is the biggest [97:36] myth [laughter] in the cosmos is humans [97:40] that don't realize that we are the best [97:42] antennas that have been made on this [97:44] planet so far. If we begin to use those, [97:47] we will not do utopia will be d will [97:51] experience opportunities for stress that [97:53] doesn't harm another individual. And [97:56] this is the charact characteristic of of [97:57] a sovereign, you know, reality where [98:00] everything is upleveling all of the [98:02] time. And something that gives up its [98:04] life is not killed. It's literally [98:06] giving its life to the next. And so when [98:08] you look at predation, you're thinking [98:10] of the lion eating the antelope. If you [98:13] spend enough time with these indigenous [98:15] groups, they can tell you which [98:18] antelopee is going to give itself to the [98:20] lion. And it's not because it's weak or [98:22] it's broken. There's a relationship they [98:25] can feel between the predator and the [98:27] prey. It's interesting that we call them [98:29] prey. Who's preying in this situation? [98:31] Who's about to go into an ascension [98:34] process? Is the antelope or the lion? [98:36] Maybe both. But there's a relationship [98:38] there in our indigenous understanding. [98:40] This is where sacred hunting comes in. [98:43] Sacred hunting never went out to kill [98:45] anything. It came to receive more. So if [98:48] you go out in nature with the attitude [98:50] of I am going to receive the abundance [98:52] of nature for my peoples, for my family, [98:55] for my things and you see what nature is [98:57] going to offer you and this is the [98:59] hunter gather tribes in spades here. But [99:02] this is the change of mindset that we've [99:04] got to go back to is everything is [99:05] sacred, everything is sovereign. And [99:08] when we sit back into that relaxed [99:10] relationship, but we never got kicked [99:11] out of nature. everything, our food, our [99:14] shelter, our livelihoods are going to [99:16] come from nature, not money. When we [99:19] make that subtle shift of trusting this [99:22] planet again, then we start turning on [99:25] the antenna and then our intelligence [99:27] comes back on and then our memory comes [99:30] back on and we don't have to sit around [99:32] being like, I wonder how those pyramids [99:34] got built. We will be connected to that [99:36] information because it's all still here. [99:39] I want to go back to that, but I I want [99:41] to push back on this idea that people [99:44] can survive plagues if they don't have [99:47] immunity to it. Because one of the best [99:51] examples where that seems to have wiped [99:53] out an entire civilization is all these [99:57] sites they keep finding in the Amazon. [100:00] When you read about the lost city of Z, [100:03] you read about the initial European [100:05] explorers who made their way into the [100:07] Amazon. They found this thriving [100:08] civilization. They went back 200 years [100:10] ago. 200 years later, there's nothing. [100:13] And the predominant theory is that they [100:16] brought with them smallox and a bunch of [100:18] other diseases and they spread like [100:20] wildfire to a bunch of people that [100:21] didn't have immunity to it and they [100:23] died. Who's living more in harmony with [100:26] nature than those people that were [100:28] living in the Amazon? I mean, they're [100:30] living in complete harmony with nature. [100:32] They just didn't have the immunity to [100:34] deal with European diseases. [100:37] So you're telling me a story that I [100:39] cannot answer because the story is [100:42] abstract itself. And so [100:44] >> how so? [100:45] >> Because you're painting a picture a that [100:47] somebody knows that there were small pox [100:48] that went across those peoples. [100:49] >> Well, we know there was small pox and we [100:51] know that small pox did most certainly [100:53] wipe out a lot of Native Americans as [100:56] well as a lot of European settlers. Was [100:58] it because they were malnourished? [101:00] That's certainly possible. I mean that's [101:02] certainly [101:02] >> I guess I would just say when when do we [101:04] have evidence that they started dying of [101:06] smallox and I think that's after we [101:07] displaced them from their tribal lands [101:10] after we displaced them from their [101:12] connected [101:13] >> hard that's hard to say because it seems [101:14] like there's a lot of evidence that it [101:16] spread through tribes and even tribes [101:18] that were on their own [101:19] >> that it it there was there was a real [101:22] problem but the other question is [101:26] there w it wasn't always bountiful like [101:29] where wherever Native Americans were and [101:31] there was times where they had like [101:34] serious famine and they they didn't have [101:36] food sources that were nutritious and [101:39] they did their best to stay alive. Um it [101:42] wasn't always like look at all the deer [101:44] and all the fish and we have fruits and [101:47] vegetables everywhere. We're fine. No, [101:48] there was there was certainly times [101:50] where these nomadic people uh ran into a [101:54] bad situation and if you introduce a new [101:57] disease, a novel disease that they don't [101:59] have an immunity to during that time, [102:01] that could most certainly wipe them out [102:03] despite the fact that they're living in [102:06] nature. They're they don't have the [102:08] resources that's required to keep a [102:10] biological system perfectly functioning [102:13] and healthy. They're struggling. They're [102:15] barely getting by. I could totally see [102:18] how people like that, you know, we like [102:21] to think that, you know, everybody that [102:23] lived in uh in in North America before [102:26] the Europeans came had it nailed. They [102:28] lived perfectly. Well, no. Tri tribal [102:32] hunter gatherer people that are nomadic. [102:34] Like sometimes you run into a bad place. [102:37] Sometimes you're, you know, you're in an [102:39] area that has no game. That's just how [102:41] it goes. You have a bunch of mouths to [102:42] feed and things go wrong. And if they're [102:45] in that kind of a situation and they [102:47] catch smallpox, they're going to be [102:48] compromised. Their immune system will be [102:50] compromised. Completely makes sense. And [102:52] there was widespread contact with these [102:54] diseases that came from these Europeans [102:56] who also weren't very healthy. And came [102:58] over here on boats. That had that's got [103:00] to be [ __ ] terrible for you. You're [103:01] on a boat for 3 months. What kind of [103:02] food are you eating? And then you get [103:04] here and you're spreading all your junk [103:06] to all these other people that have no [103:08] idea what that is. [103:10] >> I think you're now you're on the button [103:12] of it. And so it was less about the [103:13] condition of the of people that were [103:15] native to this land. It was more about [103:17] the divorce of the people that were [103:19] incoming from nature. And so those those [103:22] settlers or those you know in industrial [103:25] you know colonists who were coming over [103:27] from Spain or otherwise it was their [103:30] radical divorce for thousands of years [103:32] of you know innovations [snorts] [103:34] of clothing and horses and their all [103:36] these different layers of technology [103:37] that that interrupted their food systems [103:40] and their relationship to nature. So [103:41] they were coming over here sick. I agree [103:43] with that. And it's likely that that may [103:45] have been more of the imprint was less [103:47] of an infectious disease and more of a [103:50] dissonant imbalance. And so I think what [103:52] we now know about the gut microbiome is [103:54] that it has an immediate feedback loop [103:56] to to stress signals, cortisol [103:58] specifically. And so if you're a [104:00] Spanish, you know, colonial army that [104:03] shows up with weapons that have never [104:05] been seen before and you've got, you [104:07] know, this marauding [104:11] belief that you're separate from nature [104:12] and so you need to go steal as much as [104:14] possible because you don't have enough. [104:16] And so that's the downstream of the [104:18] abandonment disorder of humanity is [104:20] scarcity mentality, which then breeds [104:22] empire rise and fall and colonialism and [104:24] ownership models and all of this. And so [104:27] you come over with this marauding new [104:29] species. Let's think of it as a new [104:31] species because up until this point none [104:34] of the indigenous cultures here saw [104:35] themselves as separate from nature. All [104:37] of their, you know, 40,000 years of [104:39] traditional practice where we are [104:41] integrated in nature. We are an element [104:43] between the cosmos and the earth. We sit [104:45] in this fine little beautiful zone [104:47] between heaven and earth. And this is [104:49] human. This is the experience of being [104:51] an antenna that's connected to this [104:53] cosmos, connected to planet earth. And a [104:55] great example of that Aztec architecture [104:57] that literally mirrors the cosmos. [105:00] >> Mirrors the cosmos as did the Egyptians. [105:03] >> And so all of them were building these [105:04] pyramids in 13° angles at just like [105:07] Orion's belt. And so you've got, you [105:10] know, Plleadian star clusters lasered [105:12] into the stones in Peru and the in and [105:15] the temples that are built underground [105:16] there. Like crazy stuff. Yeah. [105:19] >> Because we were antenna to the universe [105:21] and we were antenna to the earth. He sat [105:23] feeling them both. That's the magic of [105:25] being human is you can feel both. This [105:27] is a very magical moment. And my [105:29] patients that are dying and are letting [105:30] go of these bodies, they're certainly [105:32] cosmic in scale. They'll tell you [105:34] exactly which planets they go to and how [105:35] they expand into the universe, become [105:37] stars, all kinds of crazy stuff in their [105:39] near-death experiences, but they're not [105:41] on Earth at that moment. And so I think [105:43] this wonderful moment of being an [105:45] antenna, a biological antenna, not not [105:47] the physics of a soul, you know, some [105:49] identity that sits outside of biologic [105:51] spaceime, but an antenna that's now [105:54] biologically connected to more energy [105:56] per cubic centimeter than it will ever [105:57] feel because the cosmos doesn't do [105:59] energy as well as life. And so you a sun [106:03] doesn't do as much concentrated energy [106:05] as life. And so this is this precious [106:08] moment. And so you imagine these people [106:10] for tens of thousand years designing, [106:12] expressing these incredible [106:14] technologies, the pyramids and space [106:16] travel and everything else that they're [106:17] doing at this time. Unbelievable [106:19] connectivity. And then along comes a [106:21] species that look human except they [106:24] think they don't belong to Earth. They [106:26] don't think they think they got [106:27] abandoned. The whole kicked out of the [106:30] garden thing has played itself out. And [106:32] they come in with this killing mentality [106:35] that is different than the prey and [106:37] predator relationship that peoples had [106:39] with each other. I'm sure too it wasn't [106:41] just lions on and antelopes. There was a [106:43] predation between humans from our [106:45] beginning too. We are a natural system. [106:47] We we live, we die, we rebirth, we read [106:49] death. When our antenners are wide open, [106:52] we understand the relationship and the [106:53] flow of life as it goes through its you [106:55] know ascension process. But here comes [106:58] this species that is fundamentally [107:01] opposed to life. It is antibiotic in its [107:04] behavioral relationship to Earth. The [107:07] stress that would have been felt in the [107:09] neurologic system from peoples that had [107:11] been interconnected and understanding [107:13] space and having everything we're [107:14] talking what they would have felt in [107:16] that time would have I think been the [107:18] infectious disease just like the boxed [107:20] apple juice that came along to break the [107:22] relationship of 40,000 years of [107:24] abundance for the ashwar tribe and now [107:26] put them in poverty. [107:28] The same thing could happen [107:29] energetically at the spiritual or [107:30] psychosspiritual or psycho awareness of [107:33] that antenna could suddenly break if su [107:35] suddenly you felt like you were actually [107:37] in danger. [107:39] >> And isn't that what we feel when we feel [107:40] a sociopath in our presence? Don't we [107:42] suddenly viscerally feel something like [107:45] this is actually dangerous? Other people [107:48] can be mean, they can be [ __ ] but [107:49] they're not. It's that antenna goes up. [107:51] And so imagine a whole civilization [107:54] feeling for the most this this foreign [107:58] object coming at them and it's shooting [108:00] them and it's killing them and it's [108:01] tearing up their gardens and it's got [108:03] horses which have never been seen on [108:05] this continent. The cortisol level goes [108:07] berserk. Immune system shuts down. [108:09] Microbiome in the gut collapses and [108:12] suddenly they are experiencing diseases [108:14] of the west. Not because the pathogens [108:15] were bad, not because some element of [108:18] nature suddenly leapt across the ocean [108:19] and attacked them, but because they went [108:22] out of relationship, the antenna shut [108:24] down. They lost the context of an [108:26] interconnected biosis relationship with [108:29] heaven and earth. I think that's where [108:31] we start to really see honestly what was [108:33] happening at that time. It was fear that [108:36] was bringing it was guilt, shame of [108:37] being kicked out of nature. It was [108:39] energetic signals that were breaking the [108:43] informationational stream, the field of [108:44] connectivity that was that humans were [108:46] probably suspended into at that time. [108:48] But even before the Europeans arrived, [108:51] the Aztecs were doing horrific [ __ ] to [108:54] each other. Like in the consecration of [108:57] the temple of uh is it Tino? [108:59] >> Mhm. where they killed some they one of [109:03] a Spanish chronicler named Diaz said [109:05] that they killed as many as 80,000 [109:08] people over four days they sacrificed [109:10] them [109:12] like these are this is not like a [109:15] balanced living with nature civilization [109:18] we're talking about the Aztecs they were [109:20] doing some wild [ __ ] man [109:22] >> they had survived much longer than the [109:23] Europeans had [109:25] >> I understand that but they had survived [109:27] by enslaving people and ritually [109:29] sacrificing them. [109:31] >> So that's your European story, [109:33] >> but okay. [109:34] >> So that's a European seeing a system and [109:37] projecting its belief of its own broken [109:39] relationship with nature and everything [109:40] else. [109:41] >> But do you think that they had a [109:42] harmonious connection with nature by [109:44] sacrificing slaves? [109:46] >> I can't I can't defend that cuz I wasn't [109:48] there to experience it. But I'll tell [109:49] you a different story that might make [109:50] you question it. [109:52] >> Cuz for me to tell you what the Aztecs [109:53] were, that's a [ __ ] story. I can't [109:56] tell you. But in my own lived experience [109:59] with tribes in that exact area, when I [110:02] spend time with them, my antenna goes [110:05] wide. I start to sense this bigger [110:07] reality. [110:09] >> And if you look deeper at the stories of [110:11] the Aztecs, so the one of the classic [110:13] things that they did did human sacrifice [110:15] in was their their sports. And so they [110:17] had a game that looked a lot like some [110:19] combination of soccer and basketball. [110:22] And so they had a little tiny ball that [110:24] they could strike with any part of their [110:25] body except their hands. So they [110:26] couldn't throw it. [110:27] >> The Mayans did that, right? [110:28] >> Yeah. And so the Mayans have this sport [110:30] and they've got this tiny little hoop [110:32] way up on the wall of the the playing [110:34] field which were huge. They're like, you [110:36] know, as big as your lacrosse field or [110:38] something like this. And so they got [110:39] these huge fields in the middle of these [110:41] pyramid, you know, structures of stone. [110:43] And way up on the wall of one of these [110:44] would be this tiny little hoop that was [110:46] hardly bigger than the ball itself. And [110:47] you had to like bump it with your [110:49] shoulder or kick it through that little [110:51] hoop. the games would last for days. It [110:53] was it was kind of like your you know [110:55] some version of of your British sports [110:57] that go on and on. But anyway, the the [111:01] winner [111:02] would be then taken to the front and the [111:05] captain of the team would be beheaded. [111:09] >> Yeah. Not a lot of incentive. [111:12] >> Not a lot of incentive. And [111:13] >> not a lot of incentive to score. [111:15] >> The incentive. [111:15] >> That's why the games took for [ __ ] [111:17] ever. That's why they lasted days. [111:19] Nobody wanted to win. incentive was it [111:21] they didn't want to win or was the [111:22] incentive not to stay alive? [111:24] >> Well, uh the kings weren't cutting their [111:26] own heads off if someone won, right? [111:28] They were cutting the heads off of the [111:29] guy who was the winner and uh probably [111:33] reluctantly. [111:35] >> I mean, we can we can make all kinds of [111:37] suppressions. [111:37] >> Sure. I mean, maybe they were looking [111:38] forward to being sacrificed. It's very [111:40] possible. [111:41] >> I think that's human instincts don't [111:44] align with that. human instincts align [111:46] with people try to avoid death whenever [111:49] possible. [111:50] >> I I totally agree that while we're still [111:52] veiled but between the five senses that [111:54] make us think that things end at [111:55] >> I understand but if you're advocating [111:57] for a world where it's okay to kill [111:58] 80,000 slaves at the consecration of a [112:01] temple that you probably didn't build in [112:03] the first place because one of the [112:04] problems with the Aztec temples is they [112:07] don't claim they built them. They found [112:08] them. They found them already built and [112:11] they they literally call them the place [112:13] where the gods were born. Like the some [112:16] of these incredible structures were [112:18] built who knows how much longer before [112:21] the Aztecs were there. They describe it. [112:23] They don't they don't say they built [112:24] them. [112:24] >> No, they inhabited them. Same with [112:26] Egypt. It was built thousands of years [112:27] before the modern Egyptians showed up [112:30] >> likely. So [112:31] >> the Egypt one is a little more [112:32] complicated, you know, because there's [112:34] so much of it and it's so big. It's like [112:37] it's not that the Aztec one isn't [112:38] complicated because it certainly so is [112:40] the Mayan one. I I've only been to uh [112:43] Mayan pyramids. I've been to um [112:45] Chichinita. It was [ __ ] incredible. [112:47] It's insane. You just try to wrap your [112:50] head around what this society must have [112:53] been like at its peak. [112:56] >> But that's also the the the belief is [112:59] that these people encountered European [113:00] diseases as well. That's why they just [113:03] sort of dropped off and vanished just [113:05] like the Amazon. [113:08] >> So I think there's there's a risk of us [113:10] imprinting our current belief systems on [113:12] a distant past that we can't remember [113:13] >> that. Well, so sure. Yeah. I mean [113:15] there's really they don't really know [113:17] what happened to the Mayans. [113:18] >> That's where [113:19] >> there's a lot of guessing, but the [113:20] prominent theory predominant theory I [113:22] think is disease. [113:24] >> And so I don't want to leave people [113:25] hanging and think that I'm out to, you [113:28] know, create a new humanity where it's [113:29] okay to kill 80,000 people. I don't [113:31] think you're saying that. [113:32] >> I'm interested in a situation where the [113:34] concept of killing goes away. [113:36] >> The concept of death becomes reverent. [113:39] >> The concept of death no longer is seen [113:41] as an endpoint. The concept of death [113:44] becomes an evolution, not an end point. [113:46] This is what all indigenous people spend [113:49] some time in Nepal, go to go to Tibet, [113:51] their whole culture is in reverence to [113:54] death. [113:54] >> Well, they have those uh Tibetan sky [113:56] funerals. [113:57] >> Sky funerals. Those are wild and people [114:00] are horrified by that. But I was like, [114:02] as long as you knew that like they [114:04] didn't have to get that HBO autopsy guy [114:06] to exume your body because your your [114:09] husband killed you or whatever it is. As [114:11] long as you know that you died in a [114:12] normal natural way. Isn't that kind of [114:15] better to let the vultures eat you? It's [114:17] kind of what you're supposed to be. [114:19] You're supposed to cycle back into [114:20] nature. We're so weird that we say, [114:22] "Nah, you can't have me." And we poison [114:25] ourselves so that we can go visit [114:27] grandpa in the funeral home when he's [114:29] imbalmed. He's imbalmed with toxic [114:32] chemicals that are going to keep his [114:33] body from decaying. So much so that you [114:35] can dig them up a couple years later and [114:37] find, oh my god, Nana poisoned him, you [114:39] know, [laughter] [114:42] cuz that's that's what happens. They [114:44] find out. [laughter] [114:45] >> Um [114:46] >> that's that starts our new commentary [114:48] about marriage, but [114:49] >> yeah. Well, about humans, you know, [114:51] >> but I think there's a there's something [114:53] >> that was just one example. It could be, [114:55] you know, a bunch of people. There's [114:57] nurses that poison people. There's a lot [114:59] of crazy people out there. But the point [115:01] is like we're very strange in that the [115:04] most common way we take care of bodies [115:07] is we fill them up with chemicals that [115:09] make it so that the rest of nature can't [115:11] absorb us. [115:12] >> It's because we have no reverence for [115:13] death because we think it's an end [115:15] point. Yeah. [115:15] >> So, we cling to these containers as if [115:18] this was the story. [115:20] >> And that's what I got to see in hospice [115:21] over and over again. It's the moment [115:23] people pierce the veil and realize the [115:25] antenna can sense everything again. [115:27] That's when they realize this body is a [115:29] tiny story of me. [115:31] >> This is a tiny part of my experience. [115:33] And it's precious because at that moment [115:36] of being human, [115:37] >> I felt heartbreak. I felt suffering. I [115:40] felt fear. I felt guilt. I felt shame. [115:44] None of which you can feel when you let [115:46] go and pierce that veil. On the other [115:49] side is radical connectivity. On the [115:52] other side of that veil is radical [115:54] connectivity energetically. You feel [115:57] everything. Stars, moonscapes, [115:59] everything. You are you're in this [116:01] singularity moment. And that's what you [116:03] can feel in your body. Like I continue [116:06] to get [116:07] >> so by what I feel right now when I just [116:09] tell you about what it feels like to be [116:11] in the presence of somebody in that [116:13] moment when they're antenna goes wide [116:15] open and they still have a biological [116:17] antenna that can both transmit and [116:19] receive information. The amount of [116:21] information around death is so vast and [116:24] this is why the Tibetans honor it so [116:27] thoroughly is this is that precious one [116:30] moment where a human antenna gets the [116:33] entire download and can still transmit [116:35] it. And so if we are not sitting in our [116:38] in the rooms with our elders that are [116:40] dying, we are missing the biggest [116:42] download of life. And we will only find [116:45] it out when we're on our deathbed, [116:47] probably dying alone. And so this is [116:50] what I'm talking about is I see a world [116:52] not without death. I see a a world where [116:55] death becomes the biggest moment of [116:57] transformation. [116:59] And 10% of people that go through that [117:02] have to be discharged from hospice 6 [117:04] months later because they went on to [117:05] live new life. Their diseases go away. [117:07] Their health recovers. Their biology [117:10] returns. And they have a different [117:12] relationship with their children. They [117:13] go and start creating art they've never [117:16] created. These near-death experiences [117:18] are trippy. And 10% is a huge number. As [117:20] a hospital doctor, I was admitting 80 [117:22] patients a week to die. That's eight [117:24] patients a week that are doing what they [117:27] weren't supposed to do. They were [117:28] supposed to die and they're not doing [117:29] it. In fact, they are showing so much [117:32] more life after they glimpsed that [117:34] everything's perfect. And they took a [117:36] deep breath and said, "I got one more [117:38] thing to express before I let go of this [117:40] finite moment." And this is our precious [117:44] experience that we have. And I think [117:46] honestly I think you're embodying [117:48] something of this for humanity to look [117:50] at. You're one of those rare [117:52] personalities that gets on this, you [117:55] know, seismic launch into the public [117:57] eye. Wealth comes rushing to you that [117:59] wasn't even expected. You you set out to [118:02] have some fun with some friends and then [118:04] this happened [118:06] and you were one of the few people in [118:08] the public eye right now that didn't [118:10] allow that to break your relationship to [118:11] your nature. and you stayed connected to [118:14] the people that are building stuff, that [118:15] are making cars. And that's what I grew [118:17] up doing. I love it. That's it's what [118:19] keeps us real is turning wrenches, [118:21] getting the car to go faster, building a [118:24] house. I built my own home. I live in [118:26] the woods of Virginia and built my home [118:29] there, living with my partner down in [118:31] Panama as she's building a whole village [118:33] down there. It's amazing to see what is [118:36] going to happen when women start doing [118:37] development on this planet. It's going [118:39] to be spectacular. But what I'm feeling [118:42] is this return to being human [118:44] [clears throat] where I am receiving so [118:46] much information and I need no money to [118:49] be happy. [118:51] If we keep making money the source by [118:53] which we will be safe, fed, housed, [118:56] everything else, we will continue in our [118:57] abstract relationship to nature. When we [119:00] start reforming all human systems in the [119:02] context of a nature that is not only [119:04] abundant, it does not know death. It [119:07] only knows transformation, [119:08] transformation, transformation, [119:09] transformation, more complexity, more [119:11] beauty, more intelligence. And so this [119:13] is where we can start to lose the fear [119:15] of death and start to move into this [119:16] more reverent state of sovereignty where [119:19] we understand that we are fully [119:21] resourced, not by Elon Musk's, you know, [119:23] minimum wage of half a million dollars. [119:26] We are resourced by nature itself, by [119:28] life itself, because we are cellular [119:30] creatures. We had to be fully resourced [119:32] to occur in our mother's womb. There's [119:35] We needed no money to take one cell into [119:37] 70 trillion cells inhabited by 14 [119:39] quadrillion mitochondria that [119:40] concentrate sunlight 10,000 times [119:42] brighter than the sun. That happened [119:44] without money. That [119:46] >> this all sounds great, but how do you [119:48] get the money to get a saw to cut the [119:50] wood to make your house? [119:52] >> Why did the money have to enter it? The [119:54] >> get the saw. Did you make the saw? [119:56] >> Yeah. [119:57] >> Okay. Isn't that have Do you have a [119:59] circular saw? Do you have one of those [120:00] nice, you know, those nice ones? [120:04] saws. [120:05] >> Why Why would we need money for that [120:06] either? [120:07] >> Well, we Someone's got to build it. So, [120:09] someone's got to make a factory. So, [120:10] someone's got to make the internal [120:11] engine that spins that wheel a thousand [120:13] times a minute or whatever it is. [120:15] There's [120:16] >> And so, all you're talking about is a [120:18] concentration of energy, [120:19] >> right? But someone's got to put the [120:20] resources in to do that. They have to [120:23] source the steel. [120:24] >> What if it was nature that put the [120:25] resources in instead of the Fed? So, the [120:28] Fed's printing fake money, [120:30] >> right? But you've got to motivate people [120:32] to innovate. a thing. [120:33] >> Do you have motivate people to create? [120:35] >> Yeah. Well, certain things. But there's [120:37] a reason why people do it because they [120:39] know that they can make some money off [120:40] of it, you know, [120:42] >> because they're currently stuck in a [120:43] matrix where they believe the stuff is [120:45] coming from money. [120:46] >> DeWalt power tools, right? When they [120:48] make those engineers, there's a bunch of [120:50] designers. They all work for money and [120:52] they all like figure out how much [120:54] electricity it's going to run on, what [120:56] the engine's going to be, how fast it [120:58] has to be, what's the best steel for the [121:00] blades. There's money involved in all [121:02] that because they have to have a [121:03] warehouse where they have to build it. [121:05] They have to pay people to pay their [121:06] health care, pay their dental, they have [121:08] to take care of them. Maybe they have a [121:09] union. Okay? So, you've got union dues [121:11] and fees and you got there's a bunch of [121:13] money being exchanged because people [121:15] want a reason to show up at work to do [121:17] the work to make these saws because [121:19] they're very difficult to make. It takes [121:21] multiple people. There's a whole chain [121:24] of different material science people [121:27] that have to be involved. [121:28] >> That's perfect. So you just gave a [121:30] perfect synopsis of the last 200 years. [121:32] >> Yeah. [121:33] >> And so the industrial revolution, [121:34] >> right? But but that's how you make a [121:35] house. That's how you make this table. [121:37] Like people have to work. [121:38] >> But we built houses and castles and [121:40] pyramids that were much greater than any [121:42] house built today without the money. [121:44] >> Yeah. But they had something. Okay. Like [121:48] houses for sure they had money. Like [121:50] which houses? Like if you go back 400 [121:52] years, 500 years ago, they definitely [121:53] had money. [121:54] >> 10,000 years. [121:54] >> They were paying people. Okay. [121:55] >> Pyramids. [121:56] >> It's a good question. We don't build [121:58] that money. We really don't. [121:59] >> They just had a lot of money so they [122:00] built a pyramid. [122:00] >> Well, we don't know how they sourced the [122:03] resources and we don't know how they got [122:05] the people to do the work and we don't [122:07] know what the technology was involved in [122:09] in terms of planning and we don't we [122:12] really don't know [122:13] >> but I do know what it wasn't which was [122:15] something like the Fed. [122:16] >> What probably wasn't that [122:18] >> and so it's not abstract monetary system [122:21] that has nothing to do with life that [122:23] pyramids. [122:24] >> Well, yeah, we don't know, right? But we [122:27] would assume that it would be more [122:28] sophisticated than that because the [122:29] pyramid's more sophisticated than that. [122:31] We would like to think that it would be [122:33] different. Um we we are also trapped in [122:36] thinking that the system that we [122:37] currently find ourselves operating in is [122:39] the only way human beings can operate. [122:41] This is my belief about the pyramids and [122:44] about a lot of these ancient structures. [122:46] I think we assume that because we are on [122:50] a specific direction in terms of [122:52] technological innovation that this is [122:53] the only direction that human beings [122:55] could have ever gone and I have a [122:57] feeling that that is absolutely not the [122:59] case and I think the pyramids are the [123:01] best example of that. I think they went [123:03] in a different direction. We don't know [123:05] what direction that was because I think, [123:08] you know, along the lines of what Graham [123:10] believes and what Randall Carlson [123:12] believes and a lot of these other folks [123:13] that there was some sort of a great [123:14] cataclysm and this is the source of the [123:18] flood myths that exists in all ancient [123:20] religions. Yeah. [123:21] >> And this is somewhere around 11,000 plus [123:23] years ago. [123:24] >> Y [123:24] >> and I think that probably wiped out a [123:27] lot of information on how things were [123:29] made and what they did and why they were [123:32] doing it the way they did it. And I [123:33] think uh modern archaeology just saying, [123:36] you know, oh, they use sand and push [123:38] stones, like you can go [ __ ] yourself. [123:40] You go do that, [ __ ] [laughter] [123:42] Can you go figure out how to carry a 500 [123:46] ton stone through the mountains hundreds [123:49] of miles away? Go [ __ ] yourself. You [123:51] can't. You're lying to me. You're [123:53] pretending to be an expert and you're [123:54] lying to me because you're not willing [123:56] to say this baffles us to no end. We [124:00] have no understanding of what tools were [124:02] used in order to create these incredibly [124:04] symmetrical statues. Never. Forget about [124:07] the pyramid itself. Forget about the the [124:10] the things that are you aware of Phil [124:13] Filippo Beyond and his work out of [124:15] Italy. The stuff that they're finding [124:16] underneath the pyramids is baffling. [124:19] >> Yeah. The baffling the LAR systems up [124:22] there. Baffling. Yeah. [124:24] >> So [124:24] >> 20 m in diameter, huge columns with [124:27] spirals wrapped around them. Like what's [124:30] that? Why does it go up a kilometer into [124:33] the earth? This is crazy. [124:35] >> Is it crazy or is it actually something [124:36] we're actually living the truth of? [124:38] >> Well, I have a feeling it was an [124:40] insanely advanced society that existed [124:43] there. And I think there's just not a [124:45] lot of evidence because the cataclysmic [124:47] event of 11,000 years ago was probably [124:50] so destructive that very few people [124:53] survived. And the people that did [124:55] survive, they just had stories and they [124:59] just they had survival skills and they [125:01] had to live in whatever way was possible [125:04] in order to carry on the human race. But [125:06] I think all semblance of a [125:09] technologically sophisticated society [125:11] that existed pre1,000 years ago was all [125:14] but wiped out. And I think that's why [125:16] society reemerges around 6,000 years [125:19] ago. And I think that's what that is. [125:21] It's a reemerging. And it's not a [125:22] coincidence that all these societies [125:25] that did emerge around 6,000 plus years [125:27] ago, all of them have this flood myth. [125:30] They all have these stories of these [125:31] cataclysms because that story was passed [125:33] on generation after generation. All the [125:35] people that survived. And what we're [125:37] getting is the ultimate game of [125:38] telephone. We're getting the ultimate [125:41] game of people telling a story and then [125:43] you tell a story and then by the time it [125:44] gets to Jamie, who knows what's missing? [125:47] Who knows what's been added? Who knows [125:49] what pharaoh has added his touch to it [125:52] or what king has decided that this part [125:54] can't be in there because it doesn't [125:56] doesn't jive with this particular [125:58] religious text that I believe in. It's a [126:00] real problem. It's a real problem when [126:02] we go back and we try to figure out what [126:03] happened in history. But the things that [126:06] should confound everyone and should [126:09] absolutely remind you that we don't know [126:11] is the pyramids. They they should just [126:14] remind you we look at that. Shut the [126:16] [ __ ] up. There's no way you know. You [126:19] don't know what was going on. We We [126:20] could only make guesses and we have to [126:23] be very open-minded when we make these [126:25] guesses because the sheer scale of these [126:28] fantastic creations and not just them. [126:31] The labyrinth that go underneath it that [126:33] the one that has this enormous 40 meter [126:36] long metallic object that's under the [126:39] ground that they don't know what the [126:40] [ __ ] it is. Heroditus talked about these [126:43] labyrinths like these these are greater [126:45] than Giza. He said like what were these [126:48] people doing and how did they do it? We [126:50] don't know. [126:54] >> You have such an important couple of [126:56] words in there. One of them is this [126:58] knowing concept. [126:59] >> Yes. [127:00] >> You if we continue to try to make [127:04] stories out of our mind to explain the [127:06] world we live in, the cosmos and in all [127:08] of its complexities or the human body [127:10] and its miraculous thing, we're going to [127:12] end up with very disempowered versions [127:14] of reality. So, what should we do [127:15] instead? [127:16] >> Feel it instead of know it. [127:18] >> Okay. Well, how you feel how they made [127:19] the pyramids? [127:20] >> You're already doing it. I I'm watching [127:22] you do it cuz you keep looking up here [127:24] every time you're like really going [127:25] after the pyramids. You look way up to [127:27] >> I do that with everything when I'm [127:28] trying to think. [127:29] >> Exactly. [127:30] >> Yeah. [127:30] >> So, but what's actually happening is [127:32] once you've done that four or five [127:34] times, your body starts putting the [127:36] information in and then you're start [127:38] speaking from some other thing than your [127:39] mind. And that's when you come up with [127:41] this conviction and I can feel it. So [127:43] when my antenna is open, I can feel you [127:46] state your truth through your body [127:48] language, through the energy you're [127:50] transmitting across this table. And I'm [127:52] not listening to your words anymore. I'm [127:53] feeling you. Your truth is fundamentally [127:56] that pyramids exist. [127:59] >> Things too complex to our own human mind [128:01] and technologies exist. They're here [128:03] right now. Yeah. [128:04] >> They are undeniable. [128:05] >> You're transmitting a truth that I don't [128:08] have to like work on the words that I [128:10] can feel it and it lands. [128:13] For so long, I was trained to look up [128:15] here. And I spent all of this time, 17 [128:17] years in academia, looking up here, [128:19] trying to find my information map of [128:22] like, oh, there's that piece of [128:23] information and there's that piece of [128:24] information. Let me put that into a [128:25] story because that's what I know. [128:28] I had my near-death experience in 2010. [128:31] And when I experienced the peace and the [128:34] opening that happens, it was a car [128:35] accident in 2010. When you have that [128:38] experience, you suddenly realize that [128:40] what you know is a fraction of what you [128:43] can feel and you have so much more [128:46] information at your experiential level [128:49] of capacity to to inform your biology [128:53] than the mind will ever be able to [128:55] create. And so this is where we start to [128:57] live telepathically. And this could all [128:59] be theoretical, but I will tell you I [129:01] have seen thousands of patients in my [129:03] clinics that are living this reality [129:05] already. They have already gone back to [129:07] telepathic communication wide open and [129:10] they are called autistic people. Autism [129:13] is a neurologic development necessary at [129:16] the end of a period of time when humans [129:19] went into complete abstraction. Money [129:21] systems went abstract have no [129:23] relationship to nature. We have medical [129:26] systems that are actually chronic [129:27] disease management systems that are [129:28] bankrupting the world now. $5 trillion [129:31] in a year spent on disease management in [129:32] the United States alone. We are [129:35] bankrupting the systems that got [129:37] separated from nature. They are going to [129:39] collapse. They are going to fail. And [129:41] suddenly we develop a neurology that [129:44] cannot be programmed with the old [129:46] abstract systems and belief systems [129:47] because they are feeling too much. We [129:50] call it sensory processing deficits. But [129:53] really what it is is a mind that's no [129:55] longer gated with excuses, with defense [129:59] mechanisms, with tolerance levels of of [130:02] cognitive dissonance. Is this why have [130:04] you seen that? There's uh one young boy [130:07] who flew over Manhattan in a helicopter [130:09] and then he drew the entire skyline like [130:13] completely accurately [130:15] >> just from his memory. [130:17] >> Yeah. And it's it's you know a project [130:20] that's become known as the telepathy [130:22] tapes is a great example of it and I was [130:25] on their second [130:26] >> season of that talking through what I [130:28] experienced in clinic is that we now [130:30] have not just a theory of of telepathic [130:35] communication. We have the lived [130:37] experience between thousands of people [130:39] that are in their in their between space [130:42] between the words they are traveling to [130:44] a unified location that they all agree [130:46] exists which is called the hill. the [130:47] hill. [130:48] >> And so they are having a experience in [130:52] which massive amounts of information are [130:54] being transmitted back and forth and [130:56] they cannot be programmed with death is [130:59] bad and things you know they can't [131:01] believe any of the abstract things we've [131:02] been taught because they feel too much. [131:05] The reason I became so clear on this was [131:08] total accident in my clinic, which is [131:10] the only way new ideas come along is [131:12] complete accidents because when we when [131:13] we do scientific research, it's way too [131:16] linear. We see something, we're like, [131:18] well, if that's happened, then this must [131:19] be the way it is. Well, if I just saw [131:21] that, then this must be a way. So, we do [131:23] these linear, you know, knowledgebased [131:26] systems. And so, we get nowhere. We go [131:28] in circles in, well, cancer must be [131:31] here. We we've known cancer wasn't the [131:32] problem. We knew that cancer was a [131:34] metabolic symptom, a symptom of [131:36] metabolic collapse 100 years ago. So [131:38] well defined in medical literature, [131:40] everything else. Otto Werberg was the [131:42] guy who like broke the whole news in the [131:44] 1920s. So here we are 100 years later [131:46] still thinking like cancer's coming out [131:47] of the woodwork and attacking healthy [131:49] human bodies. So we go on these linear [131:51] things. What we are forgetting is these [131:54] leaps in awareness. These a much bigger [131:57] antenna system is available to us. And [132:00] you you only get there when you finally [132:02] surrender your knowledge base and you [132:04] start to feel what's happening in front [132:05] of you. And so I was taught that there [132:07] was a a disease called autism that was [132:08] affecting our children. And for years I [132:11] helped manage these people in clinics [132:12] and everywhere they showed up in the [132:15] medical system and I saw this disease [132:17] and my linear mind was always like I got [132:20] I got to fix that. Maybe if I do this I [132:22] could fix the human brain. Maybe if we [132:24] flip this switch it'll work. Maybe if we [132:26] put this chemical in their body, we can [132:28] change their neurochemistry and get them [132:30] to be able to tolerate a day. [132:33] My clinic that I launched in 2010 was [132:35] called Revolution Health Center, rural [132:37] clinic, town of 550 people. No resources [132:40] monetarily. [132:42] There was no reason this was going to [132:43] become an explo explosive hub of of [132:46] innovation if you measured it by money. [132:48] I was hemorrhaging money. I was not [132:50] making money as a doctor at all. rural [132:52] doctor had left the the hallowed halls [132:54] and the marble halls of academia and I [132:57] started seeing autistic kids a lot in [132:59] these rural environments and in inner [133:01] city urban environments where we have [133:03] these really high penetrance of autism [133:05] it's not being diagnosed because they [133:06] don't have the resources to to bring the [133:08] attention to the child's 5 seven years [133:09] old and by that time there's been no [133:11] resources brought to the kids so lots of [133:14] undiagnosed you know autistic neurology [133:16] out there and so I was seeing a lot of [133:18] in clinic and these kids are heavily [133:20] affected in The suffering is kind of [133:22] through the roof. They are hitting their [133:24] head against a wall 6 eight hours a day. [133:26] They have a callous on their forehead [133:28] from rhythmically hitting their head, [133:30] striking their head against a wall. And [133:32] when they get upset, somebody comes in [133:33] their environment, stresses them, they [133:35] start smearing feces and blood on the [133:37] walls. It is from parenting aspect the [133:40] most horrific hell you can possibly live [133:43] in. The amount of suffering being [133:45] expressed. And so these kids with highly [133:48] affected autism are coming in my clinic [133:50] and they can't even sit in front of you. [133:51] They run around in the clinic room and [133:53] they can't make eye contact. They can't [133:55] make physical. They're feeling too much. [133:56] And they'll go hide in a corner, hit [133:58] their head against the wall, stem [134:00] somehow. They're stim stemming their [134:02] body until the chaos of everything [134:03] they're taking in is shut down to one [134:05] signal of pain. So this is an intense [134:09] way to see a human being. And this kid's [134:11] four years old sitting in front of you. [134:12] And this mother is more exhausted than [134:14] you've ever seen a human being. [134:16] And so we started trying to like go into [134:18] the woodwork of like what resources are [134:20] we not thinking of here? And by this [134:21] time I was starting to be exposed to [134:23] Native American indigenous practices and [134:25] new energetic therapies, Ibrahim Cream [134:28] stuff out of Egypt. And it was like [134:30] okay, show me something. Give me some [134:32] tool here. And we stumbled upon this [134:36] very simple tool which is called emotion [134:38] code therapy. And it's a simple way of [134:40] bringing the mind into awareness of [134:42] where an emotion is stored inside of [134:44] itself. And then you run a magnet over [134:45] the forehead, over the top of the head [134:47] to reset the the magnetic pull of the [134:50] water around the brain and it changes [134:51] the neurochemistry. And so it was a [134:54] powerful tool. I was super excited about [134:55] it. But most of these kids coming in so [134:57] effective wouldn't even get close enough [134:59] for me to do the therapy. So we started [135:01] doing it on the moms to show the kid, [135:03] hey, this is safe. And they'd come in, [135:04] get a couple treatments. After two years [135:07] of this, we started to realize all of [135:09] the kids were improving before we ever [135:12] got that treatment installed. they were [135:14] improving when mom got treated. [135:17] That started to make me realize they're [135:19] not expressing a personal experience. [135:21] They're expressing a field effect. Their [135:23] antenna is wide open. And when we [135:25] removed mom's emotional stressors, the [135:27] kid got better. And so we started [135:30] treating everybody in the field and and [135:33] a heavily autistic child will require [135:35] three to five full-time, you know, [135:37] efforts to to get it. So they got a [135:38] grandma, two aunties, an uncle, two [135:41] brothers that are taking care of the [135:42] kid. And we started treating the whole [135:44] field like anybody who has touch with [135:46] this kid in a week, we want to see them. [135:48] We want to do clear their emotional [135:50] field. The effect was just undeniably [135:53] effective. Every time you cleared [135:55] another individual whose emotional field [135:57] was being felt by the kid, the kid [135:59] improved. [136:00] >> Wow. [136:00] >> And so what I started to realize is [136:02] these kids because they are wide open [136:04] antenna that cannot damp themselves [136:07] down. They don't have the filters that [136:09] would allow them to survive in an [136:10] abstract fake environment that's [136:12] artificial through and through. They [136:14] cannot do it. And so all they can do is [136:16] feel everything. And now they're feeling [136:19] what those native cultures must have [136:21] felt when Europeans showed up for the [136:22] first time. [136:24] Neurologic systems that are wide open [136:27] that suddenly see an abstract human [136:30] being in the suffering they are in will [136:33] collapse its own neurology will [136:35] overwhelm the system. And so the same [136:38] thing that our artistic are showing [136:40] today I believe is very similar what it [136:42] must have felt like to be an Inca or [136:44] Mayan in your habitat and suddenly see [136:47] the field disrupted by a stress signal. [136:50] an unbelievable signal that just broke [136:54] the whole field. So, we have stories [136:56] about floods, but we're still thinking [136:58] of the flood as a physical, you know, [137:01] wave of water that came over. Is it [137:04] possible that the flood was actually a [137:06] neurologic experience of overwhelm that [137:08] wiped out the entire memory bank? Did we [137:12] do that when a sector of humanity truly [137:15] experienced and believed itself to be [137:17] separate from nature for a moment? Was [137:19] there an original? [137:20] >> I think it has they're mutually [137:22] exclusive. Um, and I think there's a lot [137:24] of physical evidence that the uh impact [137:27] the younger dest impact theory [137:29] specifically is real. [137:30] >> I agree there's water. I agree water [137:31] goes up and down. I agree that there's [137:33] massive floods. But when we talk about [137:35] the Inca and the Aztec, there was no [137:36] flood at that time. So what I'm really [137:39] getting at is is it possible there's [137:41] something other than just physical [137:42] floods? Can there be energetic [137:44] >> so in that case these settlers coming [137:48] across not just the diseases but just [137:50] the fact that they were there [137:52] >> they're marauders these people are [137:54] coming in on horseback they have [137:56] musketss [137:57] >> they think they've been kicked out of [137:58] nature for a thousand years they're [138:00] terrified [138:01] >> they're cutting people's arms off they [138:02] don't give them their weight and gold [138:05] >> they're breaking the field [138:07] >> yeah you've read some of the depict [138:09] there was um [138:11] >> was it a um a bishop or some some [138:15] someone traveled with some religious [138:18] person traveled with Columbus's first [138:20] crew and wrote these horrific depictions [138:22] of what they did to the native people [138:24] that they found and once they found that [138:26] these people had gold that they demanded [138:28] their way in gold were cutting their [138:29] arms off and dashing babies heads on [138:32] rocks. They were horrific stuff. I [138:34] forget the the guy who it was but it was [138:36] some religious figure who traveled with [138:39] them. Here he is. [138:42] Bartolome de lascas. [138:44] So um he's a Spanish lawyer, clergyman, [138:47] writer, and activist best known for his [138:49] work as a historian and social reformer. [138:52] So this is the guy and uh so he he [138:56] recorded what the Spanish settlers did. [139:00] He described and rallied against the [139:01] atrocities committed by the concistadors [139:04] uh against the indigenous people. [139:06] Arriving as one of the first Spanish [139:07] settlers in America, Los Casus initially [139:10] participated in the colonial economy [139:12] built on forced indigenous labor, but [139:14] eventually felt compelled to oppose the [139:16] abuses committed by European colonists [139:18] against the indigenous population. So, [139:21] he's one of the reasons why we know that [139:22] we probably shouldn't be celebrating [139:24] Columbus Day. He probably wasn't a great [139:26] guy. [139:26] >> Yeah. [snorts] [139:27] >> Yeah. [139:28] >> And and I wish it was distant in [139:29] history, but it's still happening. Yes. [139:32] The cartels are still doing that down in [139:34] throughout this whole region that we're [139:35] talking about and they're still [139:36] beheading people with machetes and [139:38] they're still [139:38] >> at this and and we as the United States [139:41] have killed more people than any other [139:43] people's in history. We have been a [139:46] machine of death for 250 years like none [139:48] other and we've done it in the name of [139:50] freedom and we've done it in the name of [139:52] you know our god is better than your god [139:54] and so we have used these altruistic [139:57] shields to become the biggest death [139:59] machine in the world. incredible medical [140:00] paper was published just recently in the [140:02] Lancet uh and it looked at the number of [140:05] global deaths from just US economic [140:08] sanctions over the last 40 years. And [140:11] the number was around 35 million people [140:12] dead. [140:15] 35 million people died not with a single [140:17] tank, not with a single plane in the [140:19] air, not a single drone from economic [140:22] sanctions. And so when we keep telling [140:24] ourselves that we need money for our own [140:28] health, for our own houses, we need [140:30] health care insurance, therefore we need [140:32] money, the assurance of health will [140:34] never come from a company that doesn't [140:36] care about you. It will always come from [140:38] biology. It will always come from an [140:40] earth that allowed you to conceive in [140:41] your mother's womb. [140:42] >> Well, we're in a very perverted system. [140:45] If the health is dependent upon these [140:48] organizations whose primary focus is to [140:50] make the most money possible, that's [140:52] crazy. And then recommend to you drugs [140:55] that you absolutely don't need and then [140:57] hide studies of these drugs are damaging [140:59] to you. [141:00] >> It's crazy unless you think that [141:01] everything comes from money and then it [141:03] makes sense. [141:05] >> Yeah. Well, it makes sense that you know [141:08] the old adage money is the root of all [141:10] evil. It's that's when did that get [141:12] written? Who wrote that? What quote's [141:14] that from? [141:15] >> I know that quote so well. I have no [141:17] idea who wrote it. [141:18] >> Do you have any idea? [141:19] >> That's been that's the oldest adage in [141:21] politics. [141:21] >> I wonder who who's credited with that. [141:25] They probably stole it from somebody [141:26] else. [laughter] [141:30] What does it say? [141:32] >> The Bible. [141:33] >> The Bible. There you go. [141:35] >> New Testament. [141:36] >> Ah, [141:37] >> Timothy 16. [141:40] >> Wow. There you go. [141:42] >> So that would have been Aramaic. [141:44] Timothy was speaking Aramaic. [141:46] >> Aramaic was a critical language that has [141:48] been forgotten in our Christian world of [141:50] New Testament, Old Testaments. But most [141:52] of is written or spoken in Aramaic, not [141:54] Hebrew or not. [141:55] >> That's the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's all in [141:57] Aramaic. [141:58] >> All in Aramaic. [141:59] >> The Dead Sea Scrolls are bananas. [142:00] >> And if you look at the the language of [142:02] Aramaic, then we're getting a layer or [142:04] two back from abstraction where there's [142:06] actually shape to those that are [142:08] actually transmitting information. [142:09] There's something about looking at that [142:12] written language as well that's really [142:14] compelling. [142:15] >> Your antenna's up. [142:16] >> Yeah. Especially like old languages. [142:19] There's something about like old Hindu. [142:21] You look at like ancient Hindu scripts, [142:23] ancient Tibetan scripts. [142:24] >> Look at Farsy. [142:25] >> Yes. Farsy gives me goosebumps when I [142:28] read Farsy. When you look at a roomie [142:29] poem written in Farsy, [142:31] >> you realize he wasn't transmitting a [142:33] poem. He has so much mathematical truth [142:36] in a in a thing that's in the form. He's [142:39] telling you geometry. He's telling you [142:42] sacred geometry, the fabric of the [142:44] universe in the form of a language that [142:47] is not symbolic. It's it's a true [142:51] depiction of information. [142:52] >> It really is interesting. These ancient [142:54] languages are so beautiful. Uh ancient [142:57] Hebrew is another one. It's beautiful. [142:59] you look at it like this is wild to look [143:01] at you know and then when you find out [143:03] that ancient Hebrew they didn't have [143:06] numbers so the letters doubled as [143:08] numbers and so there was there was [143:10] actually numerical value in words that [143:12] were missing like when the translations [143:16] got to Latin and Greek and eventually [143:18] English like we lost what they were [143:20] trying there was something that they [143:22] were saying that if they could read it [143:24] they knew there was there was more [143:26] context to these words that just simply [143:29] you know, you're talking about a bush, [143:30] you're talking about a tree, you're [143:32] talking about a lake. Now, there's [143:33] there's something to it. It's really [143:35] really interesting stuff because it's [143:37] like why did why did language get less [143:39] complex as it got more recent? That [143:42] seems strange. It got more symbolic. [143:45] >> So, it wasn't necessarily the complexity [143:47] that was a problem. It was that it [143:48] separated itself from the actual [143:51] information. So, now the word tree is a [143:54] symbol of something that actually has [143:56] never been a noun. So now we have a word [143:58] that has no movement in it. It's a noun. [144:02] It does not express movement. And we now [144:04] assess you know 60% of of the surface of [144:08] the earth as a non living non-moving [144:11] thing called a tree. [144:13] >> Whereas all native cultures when you ask [144:15] them what is that they will use a verb. [144:17] And so what they're saying is that is [144:19] treeing. [144:20] >> That's treeing. That's treeing. [144:23] >> No nothing is. It's all verbs. English [144:26] was the first language to come around [144:28] and characterize everything as a noun. [144:30] And that's why it became the language of [144:32] science is because science broke its [144:34] relationship to motion. It wanted [144:36] everything to be static, therefore [144:38] studyable, therefore we could control [144:40] its variables. And so every time [144:41] somebody shows you a cancer study, shows [144:43] you a cardiovascular disease study. I [144:45] did this for years. I've got [144:46] peer-reviewed science, everything else. [144:48] I was literally having to break every [144:50] element of nature so that I could prove [144:52] that my protein coupe TF-1 was the most [144:55] important thing for cancer. I had to [144:58] break every relationship to nature that [145:00] that cancer cell could possibly have [145:01] before I could study that protein. And [145:04] so everything that we call trust the [145:06] science these days is an aberration. [145:09] It's a symbol of of life. It is not life [145:13] itself. And so science itself has become [145:15] this noun structured belief system that [145:18] has no no flow in it. There's no verbing [145:21] happening [clears throat] in science. [145:23] It's there's a bacteria, there's a [145:25] mitochondria, there's a human cell. And [145:27] we think of those as three different [145:28] things. No, it is life lifing. And what [145:32] it's doing is finding more and more ways [145:34] to stack complexity to get more and more [145:36] light concentrated per cubic centimeter. [145:39] >> And everything is in one relationship. [145:41] There is no tree human thing. There's [145:44] life doing biosis interconnected [145:47] relationships. And this is getting very [145:50] fun now is like we actually got the [145:52] science now to prove that we were wrong. [145:54] And so we think, okay, here's human DNA, [145:57] double helix, Watson and Crick. This is [146:00] Bible of the biologic kingdom. Now [146:03] everything comes from DNA. And human DNA [146:06] is much better than bacterial DNA [146:08] because bacteria just have little circle [146:10] loops of DNA. We have this beautiful [146:12] spiraling double helix. This is got to [146:14] be the best in the land. [146:17] But then we start in 1992. You we set [146:20] out to decode the human genome. And we [146:23] thought, well, this is going to be [146:24] amazing. It's going to be a 40-year [146:25] project because we knew how many [146:28] genes we could decode each year with our [146:30] genetic sequencers. So we thought we [146:32] were going to have to find 400,000 genes [146:34] because we knew by this time that we had [146:35] 400,000 different proteins in a human [146:37] body. So we're like, well, we need to [146:39] find a gene for each of those because we [146:40] knew that a gene made an RNA that then [146:43] made a protein. We knew how it worked. [146:45] Watson Creek started us off. 1996 rolls [146:49] around and the team finishes 25 years [146:51] ahead of schedule because there were not [146:53] 400,000 genes. There was 25,000 genes. [146:57] Everybody laughed. Said, "You screwed it [146:59] up. Three more teams finish over the [147:00] next two years. The first team was [147:02] wrong. There was not 25,000 genes. There [147:04] was 19,000 genes. They had miscounted [147:07] because they had dual counted some of [147:09] them. We have less than 20,000 human [147:11] genes that make a human body. The reason [147:13] why that's so embarrassing is because a [147:16] flea has 30,000 genes. A fruitly has [147:20] 13,000 genes. So you sit somewhere [147:22] between a flea and a fruit fly [147:23] genetically. In fact, you're a little [147:25] closer to the fruitfly than the flea. [147:26] That's probably why the flea can jump 40 [147:28] times its height and you can't. But [147:30] there is something sitting here right in [147:32] front of us at the genetic level saying [147:35] to be human is not to be a species. [147:39] And so what is all that DNA doing? [147:41] There's so much DNA in a human. How can [147:43] we have so few of that? How small of [147:45] that information actually coding a gene? [147:47] And turns out the number is one and a [147:48] half%. One and a half% of the DNA held [147:51] inside of a human cell is actually [147:52] coding for a gene. [147:54] 98.5% [147:56] we ended up calling junk DNA. [147:59] So it was called junk DNA for 25 years [148:01] until somebody started to realize that [148:03] we were preserving our junk DNA more [148:05] carefully and passing that to our young [148:08] than we were the genes. And so there's [148:10] something super important being [148:11] preserved by biology from generation to [148:13] generation. All this junk DNA what we [148:16] now have found out is the mitochondria. [148:18] Again, 200 mitochondria, many different [148:20] species variants living inside a single [148:22] human cell because they change their [148:24] genetic sequencing very rapidly. And so [148:26] you got maybe, you know, a couple [148:28] hundred different versions of a [148:30] mitochondria sitting in a single human [148:32] brain cell. [148:34] Those, it turns out, are storing their [148:36] genetic information in the double helix [148:38] of the human cell. and they go and [148:40] access inside the human nucleus the gene [148:43] that is theirs for their own [148:45] reproductive capacity and pull an RNA [148:47] out of that come and decode a protein so [148:49] they can reproduce every 3 days for your [148:51] entire life. So the mitochondria are [148:54] storing their genes in the human cells. [148:56] This was this doesn't fit any biologic [148:59] map of Watson Creek. You're starting to [149:00] realize there's a collective expression [149:03] of in the antenna of being human. And [149:06] that's what DNA ends up being is it is [149:07] actually an antenna system that's taking [149:09] in information and then unwinding and [149:12] rewinding to reveal different genetic [149:14] sequences to all of life within a human [149:17] ecosystem. So, we are now convinced [149:20] genetically that it's impossible that a [149:22] human is a species, else we'd be [149:23] somewhere between a flea and a fruitfly. [149:25] The magic of being human is in the 98.5% [149:28] of our DNA that doesn't code for a human [149:30] gene. That is likely coding for all of [149:33] life. That's what it means to be a [149:35] keystone species genetically is we are [149:38] the life. We are the life record. It is [149:40] happening through us, in us, around us. [149:42] Life is ascending through a biologic [149:45] matrix that we call a human body, but it [149:47] is not a species. It's an ecosystem. And [149:50] 70 years ago, we started the antibiotic [149:52] era. And we started wiping out the [149:55] diversity inside of a human body. And [149:57] so, the toxicity of herbicides and [149:59] pesticides have very little to do to [150:02] their impact on a human cell. It has to [150:04] do with the impact on the entire [150:06] ecosystem that's expressing itself [150:08] through this massive genomic library [150:11] that is so big we can't even wrap our [150:12] head around. If we strung you end to [150:15] end, you've got around 50 to 70 trillion [150:17] human cells. [150:19] Each of those cells has about a meter of [150:21] DNA bundled inside of every nucleus of [150:24] every cell. If we strung you end to end, [150:26] we could wrap Joe around the [150:28] circumference of the planet right at the [150:30] equator two million times. [150:33] Your DNA wraps around planet Earth two [150:35] million times. The amount of genetic [150:38] information in there is plenty to hold a [150:42] record and a code for all of life on [150:43] Earth. It will not surprise me that in [150:47] the coming years we start to realize the [150:49] entire code is here. We found out just [150:51] recently that you could take the human [150:53] genome and rearrange it into 178 puzzle [150:56] pieces and spell pig perfectly. [150:59] The genome is this warehouse of life of [151:02] Earth. It's not belonging to a human [151:05] species. And I believe that this is [151:08] where we are going to really spend a lot [151:09] of our new excitement around what it [151:11] means to be human as we start to move [151:12] into our next era. The antibiotic era is [151:15] coming to an end. It's crippled our [151:18] biology and our fertility point where we [151:19] we cannot continue it. [151:20] >> Well, how do we move past it? [151:22] >> We be become biologic again. We're going [151:24] to end the chemical antibiotic era and [151:26] we're become move into the biological [151:29] renaissance. You you talked a couple [151:31] times about this moment of like [151:34] remembering like [151:37] the renaissance that we can all point to [151:39] sudden explosion in math, science, art, [151:42] massive, you know, [151:45] it doesn't make any sense what was [151:46] happening 50 years before the [151:48] Renaissance and then the Renaissance and [151:49] what would happen the next 200 years is [151:51] it was a parametric [151:53] explosion of creativity of human [151:55] capacity, human mind capacity, [151:57] creativity, everything. What does it [151:59] coincide with? [152:00] >> A remembrance. [152:01] The antenna opened up. And so this is [152:05] the moment we're about to reenter now as [152:07] we're going into the next renaissance. [152:08] And it's happening in people like Dr. [152:10] Ibrahim Kim out of He's suddenly [152:12] remembering the technology of the [152:15] hieroglyphs. He's remembering the [152:18] technology of waveform and its influence [152:20] on biology. He's not in there inventing [152:24] this stuff. [152:26] I've sat with him in cafes and I'll say, [152:28] "Well, what about this disease here?" [152:30] And he goes just for a split second into [152:33] his antenna, draws the draws the shape [152:36] on the napkin, slides it across the [152:37] table. He's not producing this stuff. [152:41] He's remembering this stuff. The antenna [152:44] is opening up on humankind right now, [152:46] and autism is our supercharged version [152:49] of that. The autistic neurology ha is so [152:52] wide open that we're going to have no [152:53] choice but to be start to remember [152:55] everything. A kid flies over New York [152:57] once can remember the entire scape. [153:00] That's what our antenna is capable of [153:01] doing. [153:03] Autistic children are not abnormally [153:05] genius. They are minds that are [153:07] unfiltered and bodies that are still in [153:09] the context of nature. They have not [153:12] separated. When I sit with an indigenous [153:15] elder in Africa, the Koi people, the Koi [153:18] have been around for 300,000 years. They [153:21] have an unbroken oral history for a [153:24] 100,000 years with the exception of that [153:26] blank point 11,000 to 7,000 years ago. [153:29] And so they also suffered the amnesia. [153:31] But 100,000 years of noral tradition is [153:34] spectacular. It's twice as long as [153:35] anything else on the planet. Aboriginal [153:37] 40,000, Native Americans 40,000, deep [153:40] Peru 30,000. [153:42] 100,000 years of uninterrupted [153:44] information. You sit with one of these [153:45] elders and they have all of the [153:47] experiential traits that the the [153:49] autistic community has. They can go to [153:51] the hill. They can communicate [153:53] telepathically with the forest system. [153:55] They can tell you what the panther is [153:56] saying. They can tell you what the moon [153:57] cycle is saying. Not because they've [153:59] studied it, because they're literally [154:00] just listening to the information. [154:01] They're receiving the information. This [154:03] new renaissance that's beginning is a [154:05] biological reconnection that is going to [154:08] be available to us. so much information [154:10] that we're not going to sit here around [154:12] listening to podcasts of wondering [154:13] scratching our heads about how did the [154:15] pyramids happen like what did we're [154:17] going to start doing it again because [154:19] there's a cellular understanding of how [154:21] water and carbon work how it how you [154:24] much work you can do instantaneously [154:26] when you master the ability of the [154:28] antenna of a human being to organize [154:31] matter [154:34] the pyramids were not built they were [154:35] organized if that makes sense I believe [154:37] that when you feel what's happening [154:39] inside a pyramid. This was a this was [154:41] all an energetic expression. This is a [154:44] frequency wavelength expression of [154:46] something that was energetically already [154:49] here. It's an emergent reality that is [154:52] made by biology when it feels the whole [154:54] field, [154:56] right? But how how do they put it [154:58] together? [155:00] So the people that are remembering this [155:02] that are starting to feel what is this? [155:04] It's they did it through mind. They did [155:07] it literally through transmitting [155:08] information into the natural materials. [155:11] And so they would cut with their mind [155:14] with frequency as a transmitter to cut [155:17] the stones to organize stones to move [155:19] anti-gravity and everything else. And [155:22] you're bringing this to everybody's [155:23] attention all the time. These UAPs and [155:25] everything else that are rushing around [155:26] here, gravity only exists in one plane [155:30] of reality here. [155:32] And so there's anti-gravity experiences [155:35] that are the process of waves [155:37] interrupting the relationship between [155:39] two bodies. That's gravity. So gravity [155:42] is the distance plus the mass or you [155:44] mass squared plus the distance between [155:46] the or multiply by the distance between [155:48] the two bodies there. And so you need [155:50] two bodies in relationship to create the [155:52] phenomena of gravity. Not surprisingly, [155:54] you can put a waveform between those two [155:56] that interrupt that that relationship. [156:00] And so when you start to think this way, [156:02] then UAPs and and your pyramids all [156:05] start to make sense. Like we're so [156:08] Newtonian in our current belief systems. [156:10] We've forgotten how to believe in [156:12] quantum physics because we became so [156:14] committed to the mechanical reality that [156:16] Newton offered us. Newton said this [156:19] happens therefore this happens. You know [156:21] everything is action and reaction action [156:23] reaction. Maybe or everything is [156:26] creation. [156:27] Is the right relationship between action [156:29] and reaction actually polarity instead [156:32] of one thing reacting to the other? [156:34] >> What do you think is fueling this [156:36] current res renaissance? [156:38] >> I think it's us getting to the breaking [156:41] point of human neurology. We can no [156:43] longer sustain the stories. [156:46] We It took so much energy for us to all [156:49] believe the stories together. [156:51] Everything you've ever talked about on [156:52] this podcast is pushing you. You I don't [156:55] even know if you know you're doing this. [156:58] You are pushing the human neurology to [157:00] its breaking point with every podcast. [157:03] You are challenging the human mind to [157:05] stretch past its capacity to keep the [157:07] old stories alive. You're breaking [157:09] minds. [157:11] That's why we love you is I have a great [157:14] affection for all people who do this. [157:16] And you're one of these people doing [157:17] this. You are a breaker of false things [157:22] and you have an incredible device that [157:24] you use all the time which is curiosity. [157:28] It just won't let you sit still. [157:30] >> You're too [ __ ] curious. [157:33] I I love this about you cuz this is why [157:35] I was excited to come to your podcast, [157:37] not so I could talk about anything, so I [157:39] could feel you. [snorts] I wanted to [157:41] feel what this feels like because this [157:44] has to be one of the most freaking [157:46] curious [ __ ] on the planet. [157:49] What a gift to sit in front of a curious [157:50] human being. There's nothing that feels [157:53] better to a human neurology than sensing [157:56] the other. The impregnation that Dr. [157:58] Ibrahim and Kareem mentioned there, that [158:00] field effect of two fields that come [158:02] into presence together and imprint [158:05] impregnate the other one. It's your [158:07] curiosity that's got everybody paying [158:08] attention. [158:10] >> We love it because you're not here to [158:12] tell us you know everything. In fact, [158:14] you keep challenging us that we don't [158:15] know anything. You've said it five times [158:17] on this one. We don't know. That feels [158:19] so good to a neurology. We don't know. [158:22] >> Well, I also think many people are [158:24] curious and they also want to hear from [158:28] other people that are curious as well [158:29] because we live in this weird world [158:32] where we've been deceived into thinking [158:34] that people have short attention spans. [158:36] It's not true. Like our your attention [158:38] span can be hijacked by short attention [158:40] span media, but it doesn't mean you have [158:42] a short attention span. Most people that [158:44] I know, if there's a thing that they [158:47] like, if there's a thing that they're [158:48] interested in, they have immense [158:50] attention for it. Whether it's a [158:52] sporting event or a concert they go to, [158:54] there's a lot of things that you have a [158:56] lot of attention for. It's just it has [158:59] to actually resonate with you. And [159:01] people love when other people are [159:02] curious because they're curious. Most [159:04] people are curious. [159:05] >> All humans are curious. [159:06] >> Yeah. [159:07] >> All humans. If you're not, there's [159:09] something wrong. [159:10] >> You're not human. [159:11] >> Well, you just blunted. Life is life has [159:14] thrown you some curveballs and you [159:16] didn't know how to duck. [159:17] >> Well, you can definitely turn a a [159:18] curiosity off in a human. No question. [159:20] You just separate them from nature long [159:22] enough [159:22] >> and you drug them. You know, [159:24] >> that's just a symptom of nature deficit [159:26] disorder. I think [159:27] >> Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. And I [159:28] think that's why one of the best [159:31] remedies for people that are depressed [159:33] is physical exercise. [159:34] >> Get them out in nature. [159:35] >> Yeah. Get them go out in nature. [159:36] >> Go hiking. Camp for seven days. [159:38] >> Something that makes you feel alive, [159:39] gets your blood pumping because that's [159:41] what's supposed to happen. And that's [159:42] how you're supposed to exist. [159:44] >> It's been shown three nights of camping [159:46] outside, never go inside for 3 days, [159:48] your immune system reverts 30 years, [159:50] your tea cells turn back on, all your [159:52] stem cells activate. We are living a [159:55] blunted human experience because we [159:56] separate ourselves from nature. [159:58] >> Did you ever watch the Warner Herszog [160:00] documentary uh Happy People? [160:02] >> No. [160:02] >> It's really fantastic. It's about these [160:04] people that live in Siberia and they're [160:07] so happy. There's like no mental illness [160:09] and it's it's called happy people life [160:11] life in the taigga. So it's all these [160:13] people that are off the Tiger River and [160:16] these people live a subsistence [160:17] lifestyle. They uh they're they hunt and [160:21] they fish and that's that's all they do. [160:24] They ride around on snowmobiles. They [160:25] build cabins. They live with their dogs. [160:28] >> Sounds like my life. [160:29] >> Yeah. It's it's quite fascinating [160:30] because these people don't have any [160:33] mental illness. They're all happy. [160:35] They're all they're all laughing. They [160:36] get together, they drink, and they have [160:38] parties, and they they eat food [160:40] together, and they're laughing, and then [160:42] they go about their work, and then they [160:43] exist completely in embedded in nature. [160:47] They are nature. They're a part of it. [160:48] >> And I would offer, they're not working [160:50] at all. They're creating. [160:51] >> They're living. [160:52] >> They're creating. [160:52] >> They're living. Zach, this was awesome. [160:55] This is really fascinating. We got to do [160:56] this again. [160:57] >> Can I show you a picture of how we got [160:58] here? [160:59] >> Oh, yeah. Show me a picture of how we [161:01] got here. [161:01] >> All right. Let's just I want to I want [161:03] to go through that next slide because [161:04] it's going to orient us to like what's [161:06] actually happening to humankind right [161:08] now. [161:08] >> Okay. [161:09] >> And so we we have established clearly [161:11] that nature's the context of a connected [161:14] interconnected life. And so can you go [161:17] back one slide? Oh yeah, that one will [161:18] work. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. That one. [161:22] And so this is looking at the effect of [161:24] glyphosate on ATP, which is energy [161:27] production per cubic centimeter. And so [161:29] this is looking at that and this is uh [161:32] vehicle meaning control. And so you're [161:34] producing about 1,600 pom moles per [161:36] milligram of ATP. These are the [161:38] mitochondria turning carbon chains of [161:40] carbohydrates and fatty acids back into [161:42] light energy. And so you've got this [161:44] massive energy potential. And then [161:46] within 30 minutes of introduction to [161:48] just one part per million of glyphosate, [161:50] which is a common amount that you would [161:52] see in a lot of your your chemical [161:54] farmed uh food systems. We've seen this [161:57] all the way down to 10 parts per [161:58] billion, which is, you know, a thousand [162:00] times smaller quantity here. And so at [162:04] these levels though, you see a sudden [162:05] collapse of of the ATP production. And [162:09] so now imagine in 1976 we start eating [162:11] food with residues of this chemical and [162:14] suddenly we shut down light per cubic [162:16] centimeter for the first time in human [162:18] history more effectively than ever [162:20] probably. And so I'm going to show you [162:22] on a population scale of billions of [162:24] people what happens when you start to [162:25] undermine the light per cubic [162:27] centimeter. And so you start at obesity [162:29] in 1980s 4 years after introduction of [162:32] this chemical to our food system. From [162:34] there you end up seeing the collapse of [162:37] the metabolism that we call diabetes. [162:39] Diabetes is a condition that stems from [162:42] the obesity in the liver. Obesity is not [162:44] because you're eating too many calories. [162:46] It's because the calories can no longer [162:48] be burned at the mitochondrial level, [162:49] which is where they should be ending up. [162:51] So, obesity happens when you're eating [162:54] 2,000 3,000 calories a day and can only [162:57] burn 1500 calories a day because your [162:58] mitochondria have been poisoned by an [163:00] antibiotic that's killing the bacteria [163:02] in the soil just as they're killing the [163:03] bacteria inside your cells which are [163:05] mitochondria. And so, as we started [163:07] seeing these increasing levels of [163:08] glyphosate heading through the system, [163:10] you end up with diabetes within a few [163:12] years because fat stored in the liver, [163:14] which is where everything gets [163:15] redirected to if it can't burn in the [163:17] cell, will ultimately give you insulin [163:19] resistance. As you get insulin [163:20] resistance, the insulin cannot get the [163:22] carbohydrates into the cell anyways. And [163:23] so now you're starving twice. You can't [163:25] burn it at the mitochondria level and [163:27] you can't get the sugar there. By the [163:29] 1990s, we started to develop widespread [163:31] allergies. The most energy demanding [163:33] system in the body is the immune system. [163:35] As the immune system started to fail in [163:37] its metabolic capacity, relationships [163:40] started to fail and we suddenly started [163:42] develop a reactive relationship to the [163:44] foods we were eating. Wheat in 1992 [163:47] starts causing a massive allergy to to [163:50] gluten and the gleaden compound in there [163:53] interacts with glyphosate to [163:55] synergistically fracture this metabolic [163:57] capacity. We don't have gluten [163:59] sensitivity. We have a metabolic [164:01] collapse. That's called glyphosate [164:02] poisoning. I'll show you the the [164:04] peer-reviewed science we we published [164:06] from that. Within a couple years of [164:08] allergy, which is basically overwhelm of [164:11] the immune system to your environment, [164:12] you ultimately end up with autoimmune [164:14] disease. This is where your body no [164:16] longer can sense what's outside and [164:17] what's inside and your body becomes the [164:19] enemy. So autoimmune disease is a steady [164:22] destruction of your own body by your own [164:23] immune system that can't tell it's you. [164:25] You've lost cellular identity. Within a [164:28] couple years of that, we develop [164:29] neurologic conditions, ADHD and autism [164:31] in our children, Alzheimer's and [164:33] Parkinson's and our adults, as well as [164:35] MS, ALS, and all the other neurologic [164:37] degenerative conditions in the middle. [164:39] In a two-year period, they all went [164:41] logarithmic. By the early 2000s, we're [164:43] starting to realize we're in the middle [164:45] of a cancer epidemic. This is when I was [164:46] at the University of Virginia developing [164:48] chemotherapy. And so cancer epidemic [164:50] launches. Initially, it's really obvious [164:52] leukemias, lymphas, all these bone [164:53] marrow things. And pretty soon by the [164:55] late 2000s, it's solid tumors, it's [164:57] prostate cancer, breast cancer, colon [164:58] cancer, all of them going logarithmic. [165:01] And so just this explosion of cancer. [165:03] And that's not because there was more [165:05] carcinogens around. It's because there [165:07] was less life. There was less light per [165:09] cubic centimeter. So every time we go [165:11] down this ladder, we're seeing less [165:13] metabolic capacity, less light per cubic [165:16] centimeter. By the early 2010s, we see [165:18] this collapse of fertility around the [165:20] world. Today, two thou 110 countries [165:23] around the world are below the the [165:25] fertility rate necessary for replacement [165:28] and 110 countries below. United States [165:30] is way below 1.6 instead of 2.1. [165:34] Infertility goes global. By the early [165:36] 2010s, endocrine disruption and genomic [165:39] instability starts to occur. So these [165:40] are things like methylation defects and [165:42] we can no longer detox the body. So we [165:44] develop stories about Lyme disease and [165:46] all these conditions of infections when [165:48] in fact it's just toxicity that can no [165:49] longer escape the body because we don't [165:51] have the repair and detox mechanisms [165:53] there because the metabolism the life [165:56] light energy per cubic centimeter is [165:58] diminishing. Finally, we see the the [166:01] emergence of gender dysregulation [166:03] happening in the womb. And so this has [166:05] probably started in in pockets around [166:07] the world a couple decades ago, but by [166:10] the 2010s, mid mid-50s, we see this [166:13] happening regularly. And what's [166:15] happening here is the the biology is [166:17] staying at neutral. Every fetus ever [166:20] developed in the womb of a woman starts [166:22] at neutral. Neither ma male nor female. [166:24] It starts at neutral and then around 90 [166:26] days of embryologic development, it [166:28] requires an explosion of energy from the [166:30] mitochondria within it. And it takes [166:32] that 90 days really not to do anything [166:34] at the human level, but you're growing [166:35] the garden. You're growing the microbial [166:38] garden inside the human to get ready for [166:39] this massive energy discharge that's [166:41] going to polarized the biology to become [166:43] male or female. So to move from neutral [166:46] to male or neutral to female requires [166:48] this huge energetic thing that we call [166:50] puberty. So the first puberty happens at [166:52] 90 days in the womb. There's another one [166:54] that happens late phase in uterero. And [166:57] then there's a the more typical one you [166:58] see around four or five years old where [167:00] you start to see differentiation of some [167:01] of the physical features of boys and [167:02] girls and then the classic one around 10 [167:05] to 13 years old and then another one [167:07] around 18 to 21. Then a final burst that [167:10] happens in your late 20s. So we go [167:11] through all of these huge energetic [167:13] discharges that create polarity that [167:17] move you away from neutral to one or the [167:18] other of the sexes. And this isn't like [167:21] sex as a preference. This is literal [167:23] neurologic [167:25] expression. This is the neurology of the [167:27] deep brain forming the behavioral traits [167:29] of a human being to become male traits, [167:32] female traits. If you've ever had two [167:35] kids, I don't know if you got kids, but [167:36] I've got a daughter and a son. They're [167:38] both adults now and married and [167:39] thriving. But the when you watch a kid [167:43] develop, it's unbelievable what's [167:45] pre-programmed in there. The male traits [167:47] can appear by the time they're, you [167:49] know, 6 months, 9 months old, they're [167:50] doing something different than their [167:51] sister did at that same phase. So [167:53] there's what we're talking about is this [167:55] deep programming of the biology as it [167:57] goes away from center. [168:00] By the time we had this much glyphosate [168:02] in the system, so this whole cascade [168:04] from 1976 to 2020, you're looking at [168:07] this yellow line that's traveling up [168:09] there, that's the the amount of [168:10] glyphosate sprayed into our global [168:12] environment. Today we spray 3 billion to [168:14] 4 billion pounds of glyphosate into our [168:17] global soils. 3 billion pounds of [168:19] anything is disgusting. But this is [168:21] unbelievable amount of antibiotic. That [168:23] much antibiotic has reduced the [168:25] metabolic life force of our planet and [168:27] our species to the point where we have a [168:29] chronic disease explosion by the 1990s [168:31] and infertility collapse of the species [168:33] and then gender dysregulation. So this [168:35] is how a species goes extinct is it [168:37] loses its metabolic capacity to [168:40] concentrate light energy. Light per [168:42] cubic centimeter is how life occurs. [168:45] Biosis is the interconnected [168:46] relationships that make life possible. [168:48] you undermine those relationships, you [168:50] decrease the number of relationships per [168:52] cubic centimeter and you start to see [168:54] this pattern evolving of a decrease in [168:56] in repair and regeneration. And so that [168:59] your rate of repair versus your rate of [169:01] injury suddenly goes out of whack. And a [169:04] previous rate of injury of eating bread, [169:06] gluten has a slight impact on on your [169:08] gut gut behavior. Slight decrease there [169:12] and you and you lose fidelity and the [169:15] the whole thing starts to degrade. So [169:17] I've spent the last 15 years of my life [169:20] building systems with people around us [169:23] that are already tuning into this wider [169:25] antenna to say what does biology look [169:27] like fully supported. So we've created [169:30] this these online programs called [169:31] Journey which is jouring humanity back [169:34] into natural systems to fully support [169:36] not only the biology and the way it [169:38] repairs and regenerates but fully open [169:40] up the antenna to remember what we were [169:42] supposed to be doing here to remember [169:44] what it feels like to be between heaven [169:46] and earth. to be floating in this cosmic [169:48] stew of curiosity, creativity, [169:51] productivity. That's what's going to [169:53] make humans humans again. It's when we [169:54] allow our children to become between [169:57] again and start to stop being programmed [169:59] into machine-like behavior and start to [170:01] open up their antenna. We can decide to [170:03] do that as a society and proactively go [170:05] about this or autism will emerge to the [170:08] point where one in three children will [170:09] have autism by 2035 and we do this [170:11] anyways. We are going to develop a [170:14] neurology to escape. Our our mechanical [170:17] history, our anti- nature, antibiotic [170:20] nature is going to come to an end [170:21] because bodies are always going to win. [170:23] Nature's always going to reinvent [170:24] herself out of whatever stressor is [170:26] pushing on her right at that moment. [170:28] Right now, human behavior is pushing on [170:30] nature. If we stop doing that and we let [170:33] nature come back in, we get to be part [170:36] of the solution. We become part of we [170:38] step right back into the right [170:39] relationship with the keystone species. [170:41] If people want to see more of this and [170:43] they want to read more about what what [170:44] is your website? [170:46] >> Zack Bush MD is the website and the book [170:48] is biological elegance and you're going [170:50] to only find it there. We're not putting [170:52] it on Amazon. We're not asking anybody [170:53] to go after money or abstract systems. [170:55] We're asking for engagement. I don't [170:57] want followers. I want builders. I want [170:59] creators. I want the co-creators that [171:01] are going to come build this new world [171:02] with us. This is my excitement and [171:04] passion. I think you're doing a great [171:06] job pushing us there. [171:07] >> Well, thank you. And I I know you're [171:08] going to get a lot of people that check [171:10] this out now. I'm very excited. It was [171:11] It was a fun conversation. Let's [171:13] definitely do another one. [171:14] >> I look forward to it. [171:15] >> All right. All right. Thank you very [171:16] much. [171:23] [music] [171:29] >> [music]

Zach Bush Warns Glyphosate and Synthetic Medicine Threaten Human Extinction

Detailed notes

[01:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=108s) Machine-Like Behavior and the Corporate Mirage

[03:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=201s) The Obsession with Numbers Over Human Feeling

[07:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=435s) The Species' Hospice Diagnosis and the Sociopath Reality

[10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=604s) AI, Abstraction, and the Biological Future

[32:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=1926s) High Fructose Corn Syrup, Racemic Molecules, and Corporate Patents

[35:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2116s) Loneliness of the Cancer Cell and the Sociopath Model

[38:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2331s) Historical Peace, Telepathy, and the Evolution of Communication

[42:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2569s) BioGeometry, Shape Transmissions, and Biological Resonance

[47:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=2870s) The Genesis of the Podcast and Being an Antenna

[52:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3133s) Rethinking Ancient History and the Mysteries of Egypt

[58:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3488s) Contextualizing Life, Energy Concentration, and Biosis

[01:03:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=3814s) Human Intelligence, the "Antibiotic Era," and the Desiccation of Wheat

[01:07:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4054s) Bayer, Corporate History, and the Pasteurization Debate

[01:11:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4278s) Foodborne Illness and the Precautionary Principle

[01:14:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=4442s) The 1950s Green Revolution, Petrochemicals, and Modern Medicine

[01:32:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5546s) Life as a Self-Regenerating Machine and the Human Antenna

[01:39:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=5979s) Debating Disease Outbreaks, Immunity, and European Colonization

[01:47:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6457s) Native Isolation, Pathogens, and the Aztec Sacrifice Debate

[01:50:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6609s) The Mesoamerican Ballgame and Ancient Megalithic Builders

[01:53:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=6804s) Rethinking Death, Tibetan Sky Funerals, and Hospice Care

[01:57:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7064s) Financial Systems vs. Natural Abundance

[02:01:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7318s) The Mystery of Ancient Technology and Lost Civilizations

[02:06:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7614s) Experiential Feeling vs. Abstract Knowledge

[02:09:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7750s) Autism, Telepathy, and the Collapse of Abstract Systems

[02:12:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=7953s) The Field Effect and Relational Healing in Clinical Practice

[02:16:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8204s) The Psychological Flood and the Realities of History

[02:21:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8460s) Ancient Languages, Geometry, and Verbing Reality

[02:25:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=8740s) The Human Genome and the 98.5% "Junk" DNA

[02:31:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9080s) Ending the Antibiotic Era and the Next Renaissance

[02:32:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9128s) The Human Antenna, Autism, and Sacred Technologies

[02:34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9274s) Waveform Dynamics, Gravity, and the Pyramid Builders

[02:36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9394s) Overcoming Attention Span Myths and the Power of Curiosity

[02:40:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9657s) Glyphosate, Mitochondrial Breakdown, and the Cascade of Chronic Disease

[02:46:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=9961s) Embryos, Microbiomes, and Sexual Differentiation

[02:46:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10003s) Developmental Puberty Phases and Sex Differentiation

[02:48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10080s) Glyphosate, Chronic Disease, and Human Extinction

[02:49:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10157s) Reconnecting to Nature and Moving Beyond "Machine-Like" Human Behavior

[02:50:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10241s) Closing Thoughts, *Biological Elegance*, and Future Collaboration

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[02:50:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2aJpDHIio&t=10241s) Closing Thoughts, Biological Elegance, and Future Collaboration