Author Timothy Alberino Decries Nazca Tridactyl Mummies as Hoaxes

作家Timothy Alberino直斥纳斯卡三指木乃伊为骗局 Alberino认为古代巨石建筑与以诺文献证实，曾存在一个被全球大灾难毁灭的史前高度人类文明。 Joe Rogan与Timothy Alberino探讨了主流历史中的反常现象，讨论始于林肯关于巨人的言论、冰河时期巨型动物的瞬间冰冻，以及针对吉萨和秘鲁古代金字塔与巨石结构的最新年代测定研究。Alberino详细介绍了他利用无人机和雷达对帕拉卡斯地下居所与拉长头骨的探测发现，并揭露了纳斯卡三指“外星木乃伊”的骗局。对话最终深入探讨了以诺传统、守望者、大洪水前的杂交巨人、古代先进技术以及人类潜在的基因退化问题。 蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺披露了一名美军 C-130 货机飞行员的目击报告，称其于 2005 年在阿富汗运送了一具重约 1,100 磅、长有红发与六指特征的“坎大哈巨人”遗体；尽管五角大楼曾罕见发表官方声明予以否认，但多位军方高层对该事件仍保持高度保密与戒备。 (4:00) 阿尔贝里诺列举了多处异常遗骸记录，包括 17 世纪西班牙神职人员在秘鲁记载的包裹印加王室特权织物 kumbi 的巨型木乃伊，以及撒丁岛巨石建筑周边频繁出土十英尺长人形骨骼后被官方连夜收缴密封的证人证言。 (55:40) 亚伯拉罕·林肯在 1848 年关于尼亚加拉瀑布的手稿中，写到了“遗骨填满美洲土冢的灭绝巨人群体曾凝视瀑布”，这一表述与 19 世纪中叶美国报纸频繁报道挖掘出巨大人形骨骸的社会背景相呼应。 (68:40) 约翰·里夫斯在阿拉斯加费尔班克斯的冻土层中发掘出大量密集埋藏的冰河期巨型动物化石与下层黑色碳层，结合北极地区猛犸象口含未消化食物瞬间冻结的证据，为不到 11,000 年前新仙女木期彗星撞击等全球性突发灾变提供了有力线索。 (70:27)

Researcher Timothy Alberino argues that ancient mythologies and physical anomalies point to an advanced, antediluvian civilization influenced by non-human entities and physical giants, which was eradicated by global cataclysms. Challenging linear models of human progress, he contends that humanity has steadily devolved biologically from an ancient peak while mainstream institutions suppress evidence that threatens established historical paradigms. Military Accounts and Institutional Concealment Alberino asserts that physical evidence and military encounters involving giants are subject to strict institutional concealment. He details the account of an active-duty Air Force C-130 cargo pilot who claimed to have transported a dead, 1,100-pound, 10-to-12-foot humanoid with red hair and six digits on each limb from Bagram Airfield in 2005 under strict intelligence supervision. While the Pentagon issued an official statement denying that the Kandahar giant incident occurred, Alberino maintains that high-ranking commanders and officials react with intense secrecy whenever the subject is broached. Alberino and Joe Rogan highlight an academic double standard, questioning why mainstream anthropology embraces hominid discoveries like Homo floresiensis while sequestering alleged giant skeletons reported in American mounds and Sardinian excavations. Rejecting conventional biblical creationist theories that the cover-up exists merely to defend secular evolutionary models, Alberino argues the suppression is tied to ancient Near Eastern traditions, where the post-mortem spirits and physical remains of hybrid lineages were historically venerated and invoked for spiritual power. Megalithic Engineering and the Inverted Timeline (88:36) Alberino and Rogan challenge the conventional assumption that human history is a linear progression from primitive cave-dwellers to modern technological civilization, pointing instead to an "inverted timeline" where ancient societies tried to emulate superior antediluvian builders. Alberino highlights Sardinia as a primary hub of megalithic evidence, citing over 7,000 surviving Bronze Age stone towers (nuraghi) and roughly 800 "Tombs of the Giants" associated with local accounts of massive skeletal discoveries during mid-20th-century excavation projects. In Peru, Alberino contrasts the sophisticated cyclopean architecture of Saksaywaman and Ollantaytambo—featuring seamless mortarless joinery and massive stones curved around corners—with the cruder, lighter stone construction added later by the Inca. He notes that indigenous Quechua and Aymara oral traditions explicitly attribute these earthquake-resistant megalithic foundations to vanished mythical progenitors rather than their own ancestors, a technological distinction demonstrated when colonial Spanish cathedrals repeatedly collapsed while the underlying ancient foundations remained intact. Fossil Misidentifications Versus Genuine Skeletal Anomalies (52:18) Addressing historical giant lore, Alberino acknowledges that many reported accounts represent mistaken identifications of prehistoric megafauna. For example, Spanish conquistador records of giant bones in Ecuador actually stemmed from Ice Age ground sloth deposits rather than human skeletons. However, he differentiates these errors from documented administrative records, such as Jesuit priest Pablo José Arriaga's 1602 catalog in Peru, which documented cave tombs containing exceptionally tall mummies wrapped in Inca royal kumbi fabric. Alberino also points to genuine cranial anomalies, particularly among the Paracas culture of coastal Peru, where certain skulls exhibit 20% to 40% greater cranial volume than normal human heads, which cannot be explained by cranial cradleboard binding alone. In contrast to these genuine specimens, Alberino remains deeply skeptical of the widely publicized Nazca "tridactyl" mummies, reversing an earlier stance and concluding from anatomical irregularities and grave-robber origins that they are likely elaborate modern fabrications. Younger Dryas Cataclysms and Antiquity Timelines (74:16) Rogan and Alberino link worldwide cataclysm traditions to physical evidence of a massive cosmic disruption around 11,000 BC. Rogan rejects conventional overkill theories that early humans hunted 65% of North American megafauna to extinction using stone tools, citing evidence of rapid environmental collapse. Physical markers such as global soot, elevated iridium, impact glass, and flash-frozen Arctic megafauna with undigested food in their mouths—such as specimens uncovered at John Reeves' "Boneyard" in Alaska—point toward an abrupt, catastrophic event that reset human civilizations. Rogan suggests these cataclysmic cycles explain why academic timelines for monumental architecture remain heavily contested. He cites a January 2026 study by Italian engineer Alberto Donini, which used relative erosion metrics on the granite base of the Great Pyramid of Giza to calculate an arithmetic mean age of roughly 24,900 years before present (approximately 22,900 BC). Both speakers criticize institutional archaeologists like Zahi Hawass for resisting non-invasive investigations, including drone-mounted ground-penetrating radar scans, that could challenge established chronologies. Enochian Cosmology and Biological Devolution (133:43) Alberino argues that the apocryphal Book of Enoch provides the most coherent foundational account of the antediluvian era, mirroring traditions found across Hebrew, Egyptian, and Greek accounts like Plato's Atlantis. In this narrative, a faction of non-human celestial entities known as the "Watchers" descended at Mount Hermon, interbred with humans, and established a technologically advanced global hegemony led by hybrid offspring before catastrophic conflicts and floods destroyed their empire. Under this model, humanity did not evolve from primitive brutes, but instead devolved from an extraordinary biological state. Alberino asserts that early humans possessed robust physical frameworks, extended lifespans, and latent faculties like telepathy, which have deteriorated over millennia due to generational mutational load. Citing modern forecasts that male reproductive viability in the West could collapse significantly by 2045 and futurist predictions that biological humans may be supplanted by synthetic engineering within 130 years, Alberino warns that humanity's increasing reliance on external technology reflects an accelerating physical degeneration. Alberino constructs an alternative synthesis that weaves biblical apocrypha, megalithic architecture, and modern military lore into a unified antediluvian model, though his conclusions rely heavily on contested alternative datings, unverifiable whistleblower accounts, and physical anomalies that mainstream academia continues to reject or attribute to natural processes.

研究者 Timothy Alberino 与 Joe Rogan 探讨了全球古代神话、考古遗迹与目击记录中关于巨人的证据，主张人类历史并非由原始到高级的线性进化，而是经历了大灾变与退化，且史前遗存的异常证据长期受到学术界与官方机构的压制。 现代目击传闻与官方隐瞒疑云 Alberino 回顾了阿富汗“坎大哈巨人”传闻。一名退役 C-130 飞行员曾向其提供证词，称2005年在巴格拉姆空军基地目击一具重达1100磅、身高估计10至12英尺的巨型人形生物遗体，该生物长有红发与六指六趾，随后被空运转移。尽管五角大楼破例发表官方声明否认该事件，但 Alberino 称多位军方高层私下对此高度警惕并警告其勿深究此话题。 针对为何压制巨人存在的物理证据，Alberino 否定了维护单一进化论或宗教经文解释的推论，进而提出一种源于古代近东历史的超自然假说：黎凡特地区的迦南人与亚摩利人曾通过“kispum”死灵仪式召唤利乏音（Rephaim）等已死巨人的灵体以获取力量，《以诺书》亦认为巨人死后的游魂即为邪灵，他推测现代某些统治精英阶层可能仍延续着对巨人遗骨及其神秘能量的特定认知与利用。 撒丁岛与美洲的巨石墓葬及骨骸记录 (27:40) Alberino 将意大利撒丁岛视为全球寻找实体巨石证据的核心。岛上保存有约7000座青铜时代的巨石塔（nuraghi）与约800座被称为“巨人墓”（Tombs of the Giants）的建筑。他指出这些石墓呈子宫构造，青铜时代少年在此进行“孵化仪式”以承袭埋葬于地下的远古巨人力量；多位当地发掘工人与村民在受访时表示，20世纪中叶在建设工程中曾挖出10英尺长的人形骨骼与超大头骨，但随即被官方人员秘密移走并封存施工现场。 在美洲文献方面，Alberino 承认厄瓜多尔等地的部分“巨人骨”实为冰期大地懒等巨型动物化石的误认，但秘鲁1602年教会反偶像崇拜记录中曾详实记载发现身披印加王室精美织物的高大木乃伊。此外，亚伯拉罕·林肯在1848年关于尼亚加拉大瀑布的演讲草稿中，亦在圣经人类谱系的语境下明确提及“尸骨填满美洲土丘的灭绝巨人种族”。 史前巨石工程与新仙女木期灾变假说 (74:16) 对话转向了秘鲁萨克塞华曼、马丘比丘和奥扬泰坦博等地的巨石建筑。两人指出，遗址底层的巨石地基普遍采用了极其精密的抗震三维曲面转角雕琢与互锁技术，其建造水平远高于后期覆盖其上的印加与西班牙建筑，且石块表面独特的凸起石榫（nubs）在全球古代建筑中普遍存在，表明远古可能存在一种广泛流传的高超营造知识。 Alberino 认为这些宏伟工程的中断与史前文明的瓦解源于全球性宇宙浩劫，例如约公元前11,000年的新仙女木期彗星撞击事件。地层中的碳烟、冲击玻璃以及阿拉斯加“骨场”中急冻且夹杂未消化食物的猛犸象遗骸均印证了急速灾变的发生。Rogan 还援引2026年1月 Alberto Donini 团队的相对侵蚀研究指出，吉萨大金字塔底座花岗岩的风化年限计算显示其平均年代可能达公元前22,900年左右，对主流学术界认定的公元前2560年断代提出了挑战。 帕拉卡斯长头骨与纳斯卡木乃伊真伪 (122:34) 在解剖学异常领域，Alberino 介绍了秘鲁帕拉卡斯文化的考古发现。当地博物馆展出的人类头骨颅容量超出常人20%至40%、眼眶面积大约25%，单凭人工束头术无法解释总体积的大幅激增；Alberino 的团队通过探地雷达无人机，更在当地金字塔下方约100英尺处探测到了宽阔的人工交错隧道，印证了该族群独特的地下生活方式。 对于近年来引发国际关注的秘鲁纳斯卡“三指木乃伊”，Alberino 说明自己已改变最初认为其属实的立场。经与多位解剖学专家深入探讨后，他认为这些标本的手足骨骼不符合实际生物力学功能，极可能是盗墓团伙在巨额黑市利益驱动下制造的精巧仿造品；Rogan 亦持怀疑态度，但双方一致认为，若其为造假，其工艺复杂程度堪称考古史上规模罕见的骗局。 《以诺书》世界观与人类生物退化论 (133:43) Alberino 强调《以诺书》记录了前大洪水时代的历史图景，书中记载200名“守望者”（Watchers）降临黑门山并与人类繁衍混种巨人（拿非利人，Nephilim），柏拉图笔下波塞冬在亚特兰蒂斯建立王朝的叙事亦与之相符。Alberino 提出，古代高度技术并非普及全人类，而是被具有神圣血统的统治阶层垄断，圣经中描绘的“火焰战车”可能代指先进飞行载具。 基于此，Alberino 提出人类发展并非线性演化，而是从寿命近千岁、具备远距感知潜能的远古高峰逐步经历生理“退化”与突变累积。结合现代西方男性生殖力大幅衰退的现状，以及历史学者尤瓦尔·赫拉利关于未来自然人类可能被科技改造取代的预测，Alberino 警告称，人类试图通过神经接口与人工子宫弥补生物学衰退的趋势，可能正加速导向一种不可逆转的“后人类末日”。 本场对话展现了一种交织着伪经神学、边缘考古与巨灾假说的非主流历史修正叙事。尽管对话中涉及的目击证词、遗骸传闻与非传统地质断代大多缺乏主流学术界的同行评议或实物验证，纳斯卡木乃伊等个案亦显现出考古造假的巨大风险，但两人围绕远古巨石技术断层、建筑侵蚀测年以及人类长期生物学退化趋势的讨论，仍对传统的文明演进模型提出了直接质询。

## Background 本期节目由 YouTube 知名频道 PowerfulJRE（Joe Rogan Experience）于 2026 年 7 月 23 日发布。视频为第 2530 期对谈，嘉宾是作家、探险家与演说家 Timothy Alberino，节目主要围绕他关于古代文献《以诺书》的新版导读与评注，以及其多年来对巨人之谜、史前高度文明与古代遗迹的调查展开深入讨论。 ## TL;DR 在长达两个多小时的深度对谈中，Timothy Alberino 与 Joe Rogan 从美军在阿富汗遭遇坎大哈红发巨人的隐秘传闻切入，探讨了五角大楼的戒备反应与全球掩盖巨人骸骨的可能动机。两人结合撒丁岛巨石建筑“巨人墓”、秘鲁帕拉卡斯异常拉长头骨与地道系统、新仙女木期彗星撞击灾变，以及古埃及金字塔与狮身人面像的超古年代，系统性反思了主流线性演化史观的盲区。阿尔贝里诺进一步依托《以诺书》与古代近东宇宙观，论证了大洪水前的“众神帝国”、守望者杂交与科技战争假说，并提出人类并非处于进化顶峰，而是在经历突变负荷累积、生理机能衰退与走向后人类末日的退化过程。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场节目充斥着浓厚的神秘学探秘感、边缘考古的好奇心与令人脊背发凉的禁忌震慑力。阿尔贝里诺的叙述条理清晰且极具说服力，既有严谨审视化石误认与造假骗局的理性一面，又有直面未知超自然领域的敬畏与冷峻；罗根则始终保持敏锐追问与即时求证，两人在密集的思想碰撞中从扑朔迷离的军事传闻逐渐升华至全人类演化宿命的哲学沉思，给听众带来极具冲击力的智识冒险与末世宿命感。 ## Bulletin - [04:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=243s) Timothy Alberino 披露美军 C-130 飞行员与特种部队的一手证词，指称 2005 年美军曾在阿富汗坎大哈击毙并运走一具重达 1,100 磅、拥有六指六趾且长有红发的 10-12 英尺类人巨骨，官方高层对此类敏感话题极其忌惮与封口。 - [42:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2544s) 撒丁岛发掘亲历者与文献调查显示，包括圣阿纳斯塔西亚教堂在内的多处遗迹曾掘出伴随罗马钱币与巨大随葬品的 9-12 英尺完整骨骼，但多数被官方深夜收缴或以混凝土回填抹除。 - [01:38:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5914s) 全球巨石建筑存在明显的“技术倒挂”现象：马丘比丘与奥扬泰坦博等遗址底部由多边形抗震巨石严丝合缝筑成，上层反而是粗糙的晚期加盖，暗示巨石地基出自更古老且已遭灾难抹除的高技术前代文明。 - [01:48:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6505s) 针对秘鲁帕拉卡斯文化的奇异长头骨，实证勘测发现其并非身材高大而是偏好地下居所的小个子，眼眶比常人大约 25% 且部分缺失矢状缝，无法单纯用后天人工颅骨绑扎来解释。 - [02:34:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9293s) 探讨人类历史与未来演化时，Alberino 提出“退化论”：受突变负荷累积影响，人类身体机能与自然生育力正面临滑坡，外部科技的代偿或将在百余年内催生脱离自然智人形态的后人类未来。 ## Key takeaways - [04:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=243s) 坎大哈巨人运输事件：根据执飞 C-130 飞行员的第一手陈述，2005 年美军在巴格拉姆基地接收了一具重达 1,100 磅、长有红发及六指六趾的 10 至 12 英尺巨人遗体，据传后转运至赖特-帕特森空军基地的机密设施“蓝屋”。 - [12:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=727s) 官方对巨人的极端戒备：军政高层对 UFO 话题相对开放，却对阿富汗巨人话题讳莫如深；五角大楼罕见地特意发布声明公开辟谣，且内部接触证实军方知悉阿富汗境内存在不止一具巨型生物群落。 - [18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1086s) 巨人掩盖背后的古代降灵假说：根据《以诺书》与古代近东宇宙观，杂交巨人死后残魂化作世间游荡的邪灵，古代迦南与阿摩利列王通过“基斯普姆”仪式降灵利乏音巨人，揭示了掩盖巨人可能与神秘学渊源交织。 - [34:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2094s) 撒丁岛青铜时代巨石建筑与巨人墓：岛上现存数千座独眼巨人式无砂浆巨石塔与约 800 座巨人墓，其形制与空间象征着子宫，最初用于青少年在沉睡先祖巨骨上方静思蜕变的“孵化之礼”通灵成人仪式。 - [42:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2544s) 撒丁岛官方发掘与证据抹除：圣阿纳斯塔西亚教堂等地的官方挖掘工证实曾出土 9 至 12 英尺高的巨骨及超大陶盘首饰，但现场所有遗骸与遗物往往在深夜被车队秘密清空运走，暗道甚至被水泥彻底封死。 - [58:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3480s) 南美文献中无法归咎于化石的巨人木乃伊：虽然厄瓜多尔圣埃莱娜的巨骨多为史前地懒化石误判，但秘鲁档案记载巡查官阿里亚加神父曾查获两具被土著尊为先祖氏族始祖、身披印加王室专属“昆比布”礼服的巨人木乃伊并将其当众焚毁。 - [01:06:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3980s) 林肯手稿与北美土丘报道狂热：19 世纪美国各州报纸频繁报道在密西西比河流域土丘挖出逾 10 英尺骨骸，林肯在 1848 年尼亚加拉瀑布笔记中亦提及“骨骸充填美洲土丘的绝种巨人物种”。 - [01:14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4456s) 新仙女木期彗星撞击与极速速冻灭绝：阿拉斯加骨场中重叠堆积的大量猛犸与乳齿象遗骸呈现口含未嚼草料被瞬间冰冻的状态，结合地层中的高浓度铱与熔融玻璃，共同印证了约公元前 11,000 年曾爆发全球大灾难与剧烈融冰洪流。 - [01:21:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4872s) 正统埃及学年代学教条与深层勘测：狮身人面像水蚀测量平均暴露年代指向距今约 24,900 年，且雷达断层扫描显示吉萨金字塔下方可能存在深达 1.2 公里的巨型地下结构，但主流机构抗拒动用无损雷达等现代技术修正时间线。 - [01:25:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5140s) 古代文明倒错的“黄金时代”史观：与现代线性的进化论认知相反，所有古代文明均自认处于衰退期，将大洪水前的史前时代视为神明共处、技术卓越的辉煌期，后代文明不过是在其废墟上挣扎重建。 - [01:34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5674s) 巨石遗址的建筑断层与技术失传：奥扬泰坦博与马丘比丘底层抗震多边形巨石严密咬合甚至整石雕琢弯转，上层却是工艺粗陋的加盖；若印加人掌握该工艺，征服后的西班牙殖民者绝无理由不将其用于大教堂建造。 - [01:48:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6505s) 帕拉卡斯文化的解剖学谜团：长头骨人群身材娇小且居于鲸鱼骨搭建的地穴中，部分头骨眼眶骨骼大出 25% 且缺失矢状缝、脑容量剧增 20%-40%，显示出超越普通人工机械绑头所能解释的生理异征。 - [02:02:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=7355s) 纳斯卡三指外星木乃伊倾向于造假：围绕“玛丽亚”等标本的调查在解剖生物力学上破绽明显，且源于当地黑市盗墓产业链对古代古骨的拼接伪造，高额利益驱动催生了这场精巧的造假骗局。 - [02:17:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=8263s) 《以诺书》作为大洪水前世界的历史母本：以诺传统不仅与《苏美尔王表》高度映射，更真实记载了守望者降临赫尔蒙山传授科技、结合繁衍残暴巨人 Nephilim 并最终挑起高科技帝国兄弟内战的史前浩劫细节。 - [02:25:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=8716s) 亚特兰蒂斯神话与史前寡头技术模式：柏拉图对话录中诸神瓜分领地、繁衍半神征战并遭洪水吞没的叙事与《以诺书》高度重合；史前高等技术仅由极少数统治兄弟会垄断，而非普及至全社会。 - [02:34:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9293s) 突变负荷累积与后人类未来：基因组有害突变的世代叠加导致人类生理素质与男性生育力不可逆地下滑，随着人造子宫等技术的代偿，人类或将在技术高飞与肉体沉沦的剪刀差中被重构为非自然形态的存在。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1s) 坎大哈巨人与阿富汗的神秘传闻 节目伊始，Joe Rogan 与嘉宾 Timothy Alberino（蒂姆）互相致意。Rogan 提到自己看过许多 Alberino 的线上内容，但其中最让他震撼且挥之不去的，莫过于“阿富汗坎大哈巨人”（Kandahar Giant）的故事。Rogan 回忆道，著名扳手腕冠军德文·拉拉特（Devon Larratt）曾做客播客，提到他在加拿大军队服役并派驻阿富汗时的亲身经历：当时与拉拉特共事的一名军人必须与当地一位军阀交涉，回来说那名军阀足有 8 英尺（约 2.44 米）高，“不仅极高，而且极其魁梧宽壮”，是他这辈子见过最庞大的人类。 Alberino 表示，自己平时涉猎和讨论许多敏感领域，包括大量的 UFO 话题，哪怕明知有些言论可能惹上麻烦，他也毫不畏缩；然而，唯独谈到“巨人”——尤其是阿富汗坎大哈的巨人时，会让他感到前所未有的紧张与不安。 ### [01:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=86s) 巨人的禁忌与五角大楼的警告 当 Rogan 追问为何谈论巨人会如此令人胆战心惊时，Alberino 解释说，主要原因在于那些“知情人士”的极端反应。当 Alberino 与某些曾在五角大楼工作的高级别内部人士交谈时，这些人聊起 UFO 往往畅所欲言、毫无保留；可是一旦话题触及阿富汗巨人，他们就会变得极其紧张，有些人甚至断然拒绝讨论任何关于巨人的话题，并且会严肃地当面警告他：“在这个话题上一定要格外小心。” Rogan 对此感到不解：世上本就有身形极高的人，比如现实中有些篮球新秀身高接近 7 英尺 9 英寸（约 2.36 米），如果只是一个 8 英尺高的人，又何必引起如此巨大的恐慌？Alberino 澄清道： - 他所探讨的并非患有巨人症（Gigantism，一种伴随身体缺陷的病理性病症）的人类，而是身高达 9 到 12 英尺（约 2.7 至 3.6 米）的生物。 - Alberino 个人推测，巨人话题之所以成为禁忌，核心在于它与“神秘学”（the occult）紧密交织，否则根本无法解释官方知情者的极度戒备。 - Rogan 与 Alberino 一致认为，阿富汗地形极其偏远荒凉、群山环绕，长期被军阀割据，甚至留有亚历山大大帝时期宛如希腊神殿般的古老遗迹，由于环境极度危险，考古学家根本无法涉足，使得当地比南极洲更难以深入探访，自古便充斥着各种不可思议的奇闻异事。 ### [04:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=243s) C-130 飞行员与巴格拉姆基地的秘密货物 Alberino 讲述了坎大哈巨人传说最初浮出水面的真实来龙去脉。多年前，他与史蒂夫·奎尔（Steve Quayle）共同创立了影视制作公司 Gen 6 Productions，专注于制作关于古代文献（如圣经及史密森尼学会记录）中巨人的调查纪录片。奎尔接到一位老妇人的求助电话，称其服役于美军的儿子有一段至关重要的经历必须讲述。 经过母亲的劝导，这名现役的 C-130 运输机飞行员最终同意发声。他先是在《Coast to Coast AM》广播节目中与主持人 George Noory 及 Steve Quayle 连线口述，随后团队将他接到蒙大拿州的博兹曼（Bozeman）拍摄纪录片。尽管明知仅凭声音就可能被军方认出并遭到报复，飞行员出于极度恐惧，坚持只能以剪影形式出镜。在核对军人证件确凿无误后，飞行员详细叙述了他在 2005 年的遭遇： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 坎大哈巨人运输事件流程图 accDescr: 展示2005年C-130飞行员在巴格拉姆空军基地接收并运送神秘巨人物件的完整经过。 subgraph Ground["巴格拉姆空军基地停机坪"] A["2005年：C-130飞行员降落巴格拉姆"] --> B["遭情报人员拦截<br/>（下达保密令：禁止拍照/提及）"] B --> C["叉车送来 7×9 航空托盘<br/>散发强烈体臭与死亡恶臭"] end subgraph Inspection["现场目击与特征确认"] C --> D["死者呈胎儿蜷缩姿势<br/>手脚及头部悬空挂在托盘外"] D --> E["体征特征：<br/>1. 红发<br/>2. 每只手脚各有六指/趾<br/>3. 粗糙帆布裹足，身躯坚硬如石"] end subgraph Origin["押运陆战队透露的洞穴战斗"] E --> F["第一支巡逻小队追查洞穴失踪遭残杀"] F --> G["搜救增援部队击杀食人红发巨人"] G --> H["经称重达 1,100 磅（约 500 公斤）<br/>直升机吊运后装载至 C-130 运离"] end ``` - **严密监控与封口令**：该飞行员经常在阿富汗与伊拉克执行常规货运及运送高价值目标的绝密任务。但 2005 年降落在巴格拉姆空军基地（Bagram Airfield）时，刚下机便被一群被称为“保姆”（Babysitters，疑似陆军或空军情报部门人员）的人员堵截，并被当场警告“不准拍照，此后永远不准提起，此事从未发生”。 - **刺鼻恶臭与超大体型**：随后叉车运来一件置于 7×9 英尺航空托盘上的货物。未等靠近，一股混合着浓烈麝香体臭与腐尸恶臭的气味便扑面而来。托盘上赫然躺着一具呈胎儿姿势蜷缩的庞大类人尸体，由于身躯过大，其头部、手和脚全都垂出托盘边缘。 - **生理异征**：该生物长有一头红发，每只手各有六根手指，每只脚各有六根脚趾，双脚裹着粗糙的帆布裹布。虽然大部分身躯被防水布盖着，但其蜷缩的高度仍抵得上周围军人的腰腹部。现场的飞行员、装卸长（Loadmaster）以及押送的陆战队员惊骇地将自己的脚与之对比，并用拳头敲击其躯体，发现其肌肉组织硬如磐石。 ### [08:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=501s) 洞穴遭遇战与五角大楼的罕见辟谣 现场护送的士兵向飞行员私下透露了巨人的来源背景：此前美军一支巡逻分队在阿富汗偏远山区搜寻塔利班目标时，发现附近村落的村民频繁向一处幽深的山洞进贡食物与器物，怀疑村民在包庇塔利班分子。该小队进入山洞调查，未料遭遇了一个庞大无比的人形生物，全队惨遭团灭。军方随后派遣第二支搜救部队前往搜寻，在洞口发现了失踪队员的踪迹与装备残骸，此时该巨人甚至正在啃食遇害美军的尸体。早有戒备的增援部队经过激战终于击毙巨人，随后呼叫重型运输直升机将其吊运至巴格拉姆基地。 Rogan 询问 Alberino 是否曾尝试查找当时的伤亡记录或军方档案。Alberino 坦言调查极度困难，但最匪夷所思的是，五角大楼官方发言人多年前竟然公开专门发布了一份声明，特意出面辟谣称“阿富汗坎大哈巨人事件从未发生，也从未在阿富汗杀死过任何巨人”。Rogan 与 Alberino 均认为，军方最高机构竟大费周章去辟谣这样一个看似荒唐的都市传说，反而让整件事更加疑云重重。根据飞行员的证词，货物在装载进 C-130 前按规程进行了地秤称重，地勤装卸长记录下该巨人的体重整整达到了 1,100 磅（约 500 公斤）。 ### [10:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=642s) 运往赖特-帕特森空军基地与神秘的“蓝屋” 根据那位亲自执飞的 C-130 飞行员的第一手陈述，该生物的身高大约在 10 到 12 英尺（约 3 至 3.6 米）之间。美军将其装载上 C-130 运输机后，直接从阿富汗的巴格拉姆空军基地起飞，一路运抵卡塔尔。在卡塔尔卸下这批货物后，飞行员通过私下小道消息得知，这具遗体最终很可能被转运到了著名的赖特-帕特森空军基地（Wright-Patterson Air Force Base）。面对乔·罗根“为什么所有诡异透顶的破事最后都会去赖特-帕特森”的疑惑，答案不言自明——那里向来是美军收纳各种无法解释之物的终极归宿。 蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺提到，赖特-帕特森空军基地过去曾设有一个极为机密的设施，被称为“蓝屋”（Blue Room）。据传那里专门存放并研究所有回收到的外星遗物与非人类造物，除了极少数拥有绝密权限的人员外，对任何人都是绝对禁区。关于坎大哈巨人的遭遇，阿尔贝里诺的合作学者 L. A. 马祖利（L. A. Marzulli）后来还接触到了另一名特种部队退役人员，对方同样声称对当年的事件拥有第一手知情权。研究团队甚至无法确定这到底是同一起事件，还是美军在阿富汗荒僻山脉中曾多次遭遇过这类生物。 - 飞行员亲历航线：从阿富汗巴格拉姆空军基地（Bagram Airfield）直飞卡塔尔，随后货物被秘密移交。 - 终点传闻：遗体传言被运往俄亥俄州的赖特-帕特森空军基地（传说中的“蓝屋”所在地）。 - 证人线索：除了 C-130 飞行员，另一名特战队员亦向研究者独立透露过对该事件的第一手内情。 ### [12:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=727s) 噤若寒蝉的军方高层与“阿富汗的巨人们” 在阿尔贝里诺等人于 2016 年左右发布纪录片数年后，他又偶然结识了一位在伊拉克与阿富汗战争期间身居高位的空军指挥官。在一次原本十分随意的日常交谈中，当该军官准备转身离开时，阿尔贝里诺随口问了一句：“你以前在阿富汗执行过那么多飞行任务，有没有听说过坎大哈巨人的事？”听到这句话的瞬间，那名军官停下脚步回过头来，脸上的血色瞬间褪得一干二净。他甚至不敢出声，神色慌张地用手指着自己的手机示意监控风险，一旁的妻子则压低声音紧张地警告：“他绝不能谈论那件事。” 后来在极度受控、确保安全的私密环境下，这位指挥官向阿尔贝里诺透露了极为震撼的内幕。为了保护对方的人身安全，阿尔贝里诺无法公开细节，但他明确表示，那绝不仅仅是“坎大哈的一个巨人”，而是“坎大哈的巨人们”——军方对阿富汗境内存在不止一具巨型生物心知肚明。这种异常紧绷的反应在军政高层中屡见不鲜：阿尔贝里诺的一位朋友曾在怀俄明州与前五角大楼官员路易斯·埃利桑多（Lue Elizondo）小聚，这位朋友后来尝试向一位具有特种部队背景的美国参议员幕僚长提及坎大哈巨人，原本谈笑风生的幕僚长面部瞬间扭曲，神情极其严厉地质问：“你到底把自己卷进什么事情里去了？你到底在调查什么？你必须极其小心！”随后彻底闭口不谈。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Investigation of Military Knowledge of Giants accDescr: Flowchart showing military personnel reactions and revelations about multiple giants in Afghanistan. subgraph DirectWitnesses["第一手证人与线索"] A["C-130 运输机飞行员<br/>亲历巴格拉姆至卡塔尔转运"] B["特种部队退役人员<br/>独立向 L. A. Marzulli 证实"] end subgraph HighRankEncounter["军政高层接触"] C["美军战备指挥官<br/>面色惨白、示意手机监控"] D["参议员幕僚长/前特战人员<br/>严厉警告：'你卷入了什么，必须小心'"] end subgraph Conclusion["核心核心结论"] E["不仅是一个个体<br/>而是'坎大哈的巨人们' (群落存在)"] end A --> E B --> E C --> E D --> E ``` ### [15:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=943s) 为何隐瞒？全球泛滥的巨人神话与史密森尼谜团 乔·罗根对官方极力掩盖此类现象的动机深感困惑。如果是科学界发现了已灭绝的恐龙新物种，或者像在印尼发现被称为“霍比特人”的佛罗勒斯人（*Homo floresiensis*），主流学术界和官方机构都会大张旗鼓地向大众公开。但唯独面对巨人，官方的反应却如临大敌。罗根指出，美洲原住民文化中自古流传着身材高大、红发、拥有六指六趾的巨人传说；而中东文献与《以诺书》中的拿非利人（Nephilim）乃至《圣经》古卷里，同样记载着特征完全相同的生物，这种跨越地理隔绝的高密度巧合绝非偶然。 民间的传闻更是不绝于耳，最典型的便是关于史密森尼学会（Smithsonian Institution）的阴谋论：许多早期的考古发掘曾出土过巨大的人类股骨（起初常被误认为是猛犸象骨骼）以及长长的红发，但这些惊世发现最终都被迅速打包封存，悄悄藏进史密森尼学会的地下室或隐秘库房，永久对公众封锁。罗根直言不解：“如果远古时期真的存活过这样一个巨人种族，他们究竟为什么要竭尽全力向大众隐瞒？” - 跨文明特征吻合：北美原住民传说与古代中东文献皆记载了红发、六指（六趾）的庞大巨人。 - 主流科学双重标准：佛罗勒斯人（矮小人种）可公开展示，而一旦涉及巨人骨骼，往往被迅速隐匿。 - 史密森尼学会传闻：民间长期指控主流机构将出土的巨大人体骨骼秘密转移并深埋于地下库房。 ### [18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1086s) 远古近东的降灵术与阿摩利人的基斯普姆仪式 对于巨人之谜为何遭遇系统性掩盖，阿尔贝里诺表示自己百分之百确信巨人的真实存在，但他彻底推翻了以往常见的两种猜想。第一种来自基督教护教论者的观点，认为世俗无神论者掩盖巨人是为了防止《圣经》记载被证实；阿尔贝里诺反驳称，巨人的传说遍布全球所有文明的神话，绝非《圣经》所独有。第二种则是担心巨人会颠覆达尔文的自然选择演化论；阿尔贝里诺指出演化生物学大可将其解释为步氏巨猿（*Gigantopithecus*）的分支或直立人的一脉，理论上并不难自圆其说。 由此，阿尔贝里诺推导出唯一的可能性：掩盖巨人遗骸的背后隐藏着极其邪恶与阴暗的动机。根据《以诺书》以及古代近东的宇宙观，巨人并非纯粹的人类，而是一种超自然跨界结合所诞生的“混血种”（Hybrids）。这类生物死后，其灵魂无法进入正常的轮回或安息，而是化作在世间游荡的污鬼与恶魔——这也是希伯来宇宙观中附身于活人的“魔鬼（Demons）”的真正起源。在古代近东，尤其是迦南（Canaan）与阿摩利（Amorite）文化中，曾经盛行着专门召唤死者之灵、特别是死去的巨人神圣灵魂的通灵巫术——著名的“基斯普姆仪式”（Kispum rite）。正如德里克与沙伦·吉尔伯特夫妇（Derek & Sharon Gilbert）在其著作《崇拜》（*Veneration*）中所详述，古代权贵通过基斯普姆仪式与死去的巨人幽灵沟通并对其进行膜拜，暗示着这股源自远古异种的暗黑传承，在幕后或许从未真正断绝。 - 排除传统假说：不仅非《圣经》专属证据，亦不至于彻底推翻演化生物学框架。 - 恶魔起源神学：根据《以诺书》与希伯来宇宙观，肉身灭亡的杂交巨人，其不死的残魂即是新约圣经中所记载的附体邪灵（Demons）。 - 基斯普姆仪式（Kispum rite）：古代近东（尤见于阿摩利人与迦南人）用于召集、祭祀并沟通死世巨人英灵的通灵密仪。 ### [21:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1271s) 迦南通灵仪式与利乏音巨人幽灵 蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）深入剖析了古代迦南部落及亚摩利人（Amorites）独特的死者崇拜仪式。亚摩利人和其他迦南部族有一种通灵宴饮习俗：他们举行盛宴，邀请亡者前来共同进餐。更具体地说，亚摩利列王会举行一种名为“基斯普姆”（Kispum）的仪式，专门召唤古代的大能者、伟人与巨人的幽灵——即圣经中提到的“利乏音”（Rephaim）。根据《圣经》记载，在约书亚带领希伯来人征服迦南地期间及之后，黎凡特（Levant）地区分布着数个巨人部族，包括拿非利人（Nephilim）的后裔亚衲族（Anakim）、利乏音人（Rephaim）、散送瞑人（Zamzummim）和以米人（Emim）。虽然约书亚进入应许之地后消灭并驱逐了大量巨人部族，但仍有幸存者退守至非利士人的城邦，如迦萨（Gaza）、迦特（Gath）和亚实突（Ashdod），这也是后来大卫在迦特遇到巨人歌利亚（Goliath）的背景。 古代近东统治者之所以极力联系这些拿非利人的后嗣，是因为他们相信这些巨人的亡灵拥有超自然知识，并且是能够附身的灵体（possessing spirits）。在叙利亚北部地中海沿岸发掘的乌加里特（Ugarit）亚摩利城邦泥板文献中，考古学家发现了国王们直呼其名召唤已故利乏音巨人的咒文，目的正是通过降灵来借用他们的灵力强化自身。阿尔贝里诺指出，这与《以诺书》的传统完全吻合：巨人肉身死亡后，其灵魂并未消亡，而是处于一种类似假死休眠的状态，能够被重新唤醒乃至附身于活人肉体之中。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 迦南死者崇拜与利乏音降灵流程 accDescr: 展示古代亚摩利王如何通过基斯普姆仪式降灵利乏音巨人幽灵 subgraph S1["古代起源"] A["拿非利人 (Nephilim)"] --> B["迦南巨人部族<br/>(亚衲族/利乏音/以米人等)"] B --> C["肉身消亡但灵魂假死休眠"] end subgraph S2["降灵仪式 (Kispum)"] D["亚摩利列王举行通灵盛宴"] --> E["点名召唤利乏音 (Rephaim)"] C --> E E --> F["巨人之灵附身 / 赋予超自然力量"] end ``` ### [23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1426s) 巴力崇拜与现代爱泼斯坦阴谋论 巨人在古近东神话中常被视为暴风之神巴力（Baal）的战士，阿尔贝里诺随之将话题引向现代，直言巴力崇拜在当代精英阶层中并未断绝，甚至提到了“爱泼斯坦案卷”（Epstein files）。他认为新约圣经中耶稣已将巴力与撒旦等同，因而巴力崇拜本质上就是撒旦教，而西方部分精英对迦南古代邪教有着极度痴迷。他甚至推测，某些隐秘的黑暗仪式可能仍在使用巨人的骸骨，而这或许就是巨人存在真相被官方极力掩盖（cover-up）的深层原因之一。 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）对此表示怀疑，打断并追问爱泼斯坦文件中究竟有何根据。罗根认为，掩盖爱泼斯坦案的动机显而易见：一群极具权势的富豪绝不希望自己娈童、通奸或吸毒的丑行曝光，不需要用超自然仪式来解释。罗根还提到案情中那些充当暗号的怪异代号（如牛肉干与披萨），以及爱泼斯坦被起诉后运往私人岛屿的成桶浓硫酸——那显然是用来溶尸灭迹的。经过现场查证，爱泼斯坦文件中出现的所谓“Baal”仅仅是一家银行文件上的账户名称代码（B a L.name），很可能是阴谋论者的误读。尽管阿尔贝里诺承认目前实证可能仅止于诡异的银行户头名称，但他仍坚称统治精英对古代遗骸与降灵术的执念绝非空穴来风。 ### [27:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1636s) 全球巨人传说与“传闻即证据”的临界点 即便抛开仪式真伪，阿尔贝里诺强调巨人存在的传说在人类文明中具有难以忽视的普遍性。罗根询问古人是否有固定的骨骼通灵方法，阿尔贝里诺借此展开了全球范围内的巨人叙事梳理。他指出，除了美索不达米亚和《圣经》的记载，美洲大陆同样布满了巨人印记： - **北美洲史密森学会遮蔽论**：19世纪至20世纪初，美国各地土丘（Mounds）频繁出土异常巨大的骨骸，民间长期指控史密森学会（Smithsonian Institution）系统性收缴并掩盖了这些发现。 - **秘鲁与安第斯文明**：印加创世神话中，维拉科查（Viracocha）最初创造了一群心智愚钝、残暴邪恶的原初巨人，最终降下大洪水将其彻底毁灭。 - **中美洲与阿兹特克文明**：墨西哥及北美原住民部落流传着关于六指、红发巨人的详尽目击与交战传说。 面对主流学界将其归为“坊间传闻”的态度，阿尔贝里诺提出了一个认知层面的反问：当完全隔离的各大洲文明都拥有高度重合的巨人创世与灭绝叙事时，“在什么节点上，传闻证据因为其无处不在而实质上变成了确凿证据？” ### [29:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1749s) 撒丁岛努拉吉文明：巨石塔楼与巨石建筑之谜 在走访马耳他等拥有巨石遗迹与巨人传说的岛屿后，阿尔贝里诺来到了他心目中巨人研究的“归零地”（Ground Zero）——位于西地中海、罗马西侧的意大利撒丁岛（Sardinia）。撒丁岛拥有全球密度最高、数量最多的巨石遗迹群，其核心代表是青铜时代努拉吉文明（Nuragic civilization，约公元前3300年至公元前1200年）建造的环形巨石堡垒——努拉吉（Nuraghi）。 罗根在节目中调取了努拉吉塔楼的照片。阿尔贝里诺详细介绍了这些建筑震撼的考古数据： - **存世规模**：如今撒丁岛上依然屹立着至少 7,000 座努拉吉巨石塔，而在全盛时期，岛上据估计分布着 10,000 到 30,000 座。 - **建筑规制**：部分巨石塔高度超过 100 英尺（约 30 米），全部采用无砂浆堆砌的独眼巨人式（Cyclopean masonry）石构工艺。 - **考古学定义**：“独眼巨人式砌筑”是全球巨石遗迹的标志性技术术语，以未经规则打磨的巨型石块严丝合缝地堆叠而成，古希腊人曾因无法想象常人能搬动此类巨石而坚信其出自独眼巨人之手。这些由青铜时代文明遗留下的庞大塔楼，正是探寻地中海巨人谜团的物理基石。 ### [31:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1908s) 独眼巨人式砌筑法与撒丁岛的巨石塔及“巨人墓” 提摩西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）首先梳理了“独眼巨人式建筑”（Cyclopean architecture）的词源与技术特征。在希腊神话中，独眼巨人被视为筑塔技术的发明者，是拥有高超石工技艺的神之子嗣。从工程学角度来看，独眼巨人式砌筑的最显著标志便是：使用极为庞大的巨石，在完全不依赖灰浆或任何粘合剂的前提下严丝合缝地拼接在一起。阿尔贝里诺将秘鲁与撒丁岛进行了对比：秘鲁萨克赛瓦曼（Sacsayhuamán）的巨石墙展现出巧夺天工的多边形拟合技术，令人叹为观止；而撒丁岛的巨石则显得更为粗粝，采用玄武岩、花岗岩与石灰岩等粗加工石块干砌而成。撒丁岛的努拉吉塔（Nuraghe towers）部分曾高达100英尺，兼具防御功能，顶部甚至建有木质平台，并由精细切割的巨大玄武岩石条作为托壁支撑。 除了遍布全岛的努拉吉巨石塔，撒丁岛还散落着著名的巨石墓葬，至今仍被当地人称为“巨人墓”（Tombs of the Giants，意大利语：Tombe dei giganti）。如今岛上尚存约800座这类遗址，考古学家推断历史上的实际数量远多于此。在阿尔贝里诺看来，巨石塔与巨人墓在功能上紧密互联。针对当代许多“扶手椅考古学家”将巨人传说斥为荒谬神话、断言“墓穴根本装不下巨人骨架”的论调，阿尔贝里诺反驳称，这些学者从未亲自带着卷尺去过撒丁岛。他实地测量后指出，墓穴的体量容纳八九英尺乃至十英尺高的身躯绰绰有余。在结构上，这些巨人墓主要分为两类：一类是石碑型（Stele style），正面立有一块巨大的整石碑，底部开着一个仅容孩童或年轻人爬入的“狗洞”式小门；另一类是三石塔门型（Trilithon style），门洞稍大，但成年男子进入仍需弯腰俯身。 - **建筑技术对比**：秘鲁萨克赛瓦曼以精密的几何多边形巨石咬合著称；撒丁岛努拉吉文明则以未经精细打磨的玄武岩、花岗岩和石灰岩进行无灰浆干砌。 - **建筑规制**：部分努拉吉塔楼曾耸立至100英尺高，顶部设有由切割规整的玄武岩托起的木制防御平台。 - **现存遗址**：撒丁岛境内现存约800座巨人墓，历史总量更为庞大。 - **两种主要立面风格**： 1. **石碑型（Stele）**：中央为高耸的整石碑，底端留有狭窄的潜行小入口，顶部常开有透气小孔。 2. **三石柱门型（Trilithon）**：采用两立一横的三石门道结构，入口空间相对宽阔但仍需俯身。 --- ### [34:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2094s) “孵化之礼”：作为子宫意象的通灵成人仪式 对于巨人墓的用途，外界普遍存在严重误解。阿尔贝里诺澄清，这些巨石建筑最初并不是为了将巨人的尸骨收纳在内部走廊中，而是“直接建造在下葬的巨人身躯之上”。巨人先被深埋于地下，上方再垒砌巨石建筑。当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）追问这些说法的学术来源与专家背景时，阿尔贝里诺解释道，这些在撒丁岛本地早已是熟知的常识，不仅当地博物馆展有详尽的复原模型与文献，而且他曾跟随撒丁岛资深学者兼金牌向导保拉·洛伊（Paola Loy）深入走访研究。根据撒丁岛源远流长的传说，巨人墓的核心功能其实是服务于一种名为“孵化礼”（Right of Incubation，拉丁语：*Incubatio*）的古老招魂/通灵仪式。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 撒丁岛巨人墓孵化仪式流程 accDescr: 展现青铜时代少年进入子宫状巨人墓中完成通灵仪式并重获新生的全过程 subgraph Preparation["仪式准备"] A["12-14岁青铜时代少年"] --> B["从石碑底部门洞爬入内部长廊"] end subgraph Incubation["墓中孵化与通灵"] B --> C["墓穴封闭：仅留微型气孔保持呼吸"] C --> D["在地下沉睡巨人的气场上方静思独处数日"] D --> E["汲取先祖英雄/巨人的灵魄、力量与战力"] end subgraph Rebirth["破茧新生"] E --> F["墓门启封，少年爬出墓穴"] F --> G["象征从'巨石子宫'完成二次诞生：由少年蜕变为真正的勇士"] end ``` 这种仪式专为青铜时代的部族青少年（通常为12至14岁的少年）设计，属于一种残酷而庄严的成年礼。少年独自从狭窄的石碑门洞爬入墓室内幽长的巨石走廊中，随后墓门被彻底封闭，仅靠石块上方的小孔保持空气流通。少年必须在幽闭黑暗中独自度过数日，其目的正是“在长廊内完成孵化，借此获得埋葬在其下方的先祖巨灵所赋予的充沛神力”。从空中鸟瞰，整个巨人墓的轮廓精准地勾勒出一具女性子宫的形态——阿尔贝里诺曾一度怀疑它形似迦南异教中摩洛（Molech）的牛头图腾，但最终确信那是生命孕育的子宫结构。被困于其中的少年与地下埋葬的古代先烈交感共鸣，汲取其战技与英魄；当墓穴重新开启，少年自“子宫”爬出时，便完成了一场具有神秘死灵色彩的“精神新生”——“他进去时还是个男孩，出来时已是承袭先祖英魂的勇士”。 - **埋葬逻辑**：死去的古代英雄或巨人直接被土葬（inhumed）于地表之下，地上宏伟的巨石长廊仅作为神圣仪轨的附丽建筑。 - **孵化礼（Rite of Incubation）**：具有死灵通灵（Necromantic）性质的封闭式成年历练，旨在使活人与深埋地下的英雄亡灵形成感应。 - **空间几何象征**：俯瞰巨人墓，其圆弧形前庭与延展长廊形成一幅完整的“子宫与产道”构图，象征孕育生命与战魂的二次诞生。 --- ### [39:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2364s) 无法用“巨型动物化石”解释的巨人骨骸目击与萨尔达拉发掘 阿尔贝里诺强调，如果这仅仅停留在传说层面，或许可以被当作民间故事一笑置之，然而撒丁岛全境一直流传着大量由普通村民亲手挖出巨人骨骼的实证口述。在数次考察中，他曾访谈过数十位岛上老人，许多人在农田犁地或探查努拉吉塔周围的土地时，都曾亲手刨出过尺寸惊人的骨骼。主流学界往往轻率地将这些发现归咎于农民挖到了乳齿象、巨型树懒等更新世“巨型动物群”（Megafauna）的化石，但这一假设无法解释关键的随葬品细节——许多被掘出的巨人指骨上戴着戒指，颈项处悬有项链，有些甚至伴生有罗马时代的钱币与精致的首饰，显然属于拥有文明属性的高大人类个体。这类挖掘事件大多集中在二战后至上世纪五六十年代，当时撒丁岛正经历工业化建设，修路与打地基的工程极大地扰动了深层土方。 为了印证口述历史的真实性，阿尔贝里诺列举了萨尔达拉（Sardara）地区圣阿纳斯塔西娅教堂（Church of Santa Anastasia）的官方发掘个案。该教堂虽是一座寻常的天主教小教堂，但其地基正处于极为宏大的努拉吉文化遗址之上，留存有古代塔楼和定居点废墟。阿尔贝里诺亲自走访了曾受雇于萨尔达拉市政当局和撒丁岛首府卡利亚里大学（University of Cagliari）的两位官方挖掘工。其中一位名叫佩佩（Peppe），于1979至1981年间在此工作；另一位名为罗伯托（Roberto），工作期为1982至1984年。两人的正式职责是对圣阿纳斯塔西娅遗址进行正规考古清理，而根据工作规程，他们现场出土的所有文物和遗骸都必须依照严苛的标准送入教堂内部进行暂存与保管。 - **目击时代背景**：20世纪30年代至60年代，二战后的工业化浪潮掀起了开山铺路与深基坑开挖的高峰，大量古墓与努拉吉遗址遭到扰动。 - **反驳“巨型古生物化石”假说**：出土的大型人体骨架伴随有人类文明的随葬器物，包括手指上的戒指、颈部项饰以及罗马钱币。 - **关键考古现场**：撒丁岛萨尔达拉的圣阿纳斯塔西娅教堂遗址，原址直接坐落于努拉吉古塔和古代聚落之上。 - **官方聘用人员证言**： - **佩佩（Peppe）**：由萨尔达拉市政府与卡利亚里大学联合雇佣，参与1979年至1981年的现场挖掘。 - **罗伯托（Roberto）**：同样受雇于官方机构，于1982年至1984年间执行挖掘任务。 - **发掘程序**：所有挖掘工作受官方指令统领，要求将出土的一切重要遗存直接集中锁闭在教堂内保管。 ### [42:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2544s) 撒丁岛圣阿纳斯塔西亚教堂的隐秘挖掘与神秘失踪 蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）讲述了他们在意大利撒丁岛萨尔达拉（Sardara）圣阿纳斯塔西亚教堂（Church of Sant'Anastasia）的实地调查。当时所有出土的骸骨与文物都被集中堆放在这座教堂内。发掘出的不仅是普通古物，还有真正的巨人骨骼，而不是被误认的乳齿象骨骼。当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）询问是否有这些现场的照片时，阿尔贝里诺直言根本没有，而且当年的参与者对此极为忌惮。其中一位名叫罗伯托（Roberto）的现场发掘工人表现得异常紧张，他透露自己当年被三令五申“绝不能谈论此事，这事从未发生过”。那是在20世纪80年代，罗伯托最初只是受雇前往该遗址参与由当地市政当局和大学联合监督的正规考古发掘，并未预料会挖出巨骨。但他亲手挖出了两具长达10英尺（约3米）的完整人体骨架，并将它们整齐地平铺在教堂的中庭里。 罗伯托向撒丁岛首府卡利亚里（Cagliari）的有关部门上报了这一发现。然而随后发生的事情形成了一种诡异的固定模式：所有被收容进教堂内部或庭院的骨骼与文物，每到深夜都会有人开着车悄然将其全数运走。工人们第二天清晨上工时，现场早已空空如也，谁也不知道这些遗骸被运往了何处。另一位名叫佩佩（Giuseppe / "Peppe"）的发掘人员也在此地挖出过巨人的骨骸与各类超大号随葬品，包括体型惊人的巨型陶盘、硕大的高脚杯、圣餐杯、巨型戒指、耳环和项链等。 佩佩回忆起一段极其震撼的细节：某天他的妻子也来现场帮忙，两人在废墟中清理出了一颗极其庞大的头骨，其体积是正常人类头骨的三到四倍，后面甚至还连带着部分颈椎骨。某些遗骸甚至并非单纯的白骨化，而是呈现出类似天然木乃伊的状态。夫妻二人合力才将这颗沉重的头骨抬进了教堂。更不可思议的是，工人们在挖掘其中一座巨石塔楼时，凿开了一间因坍塌而处于完全密封状态的大型暗室。暗室打开后，里面赫然坐着一个身材极其高大（约9至12英尺高，即2.7至3.6米）的巨人遗体，正端坐在桌前；桌上摆着一个巨大的餐盘和一只硕大的高脚杯，盘中甚至还残留着保存完好的牡蛎、贻贝和蛤蜊残骸。由于该密室几乎处于完全密闭的绝氧状态，整具遗体与现场器物保存得极其完好。这些物品同样在被送进教堂后的隔天夜里不翼而飞。随着出土遗物越来越多，教堂几乎被彻底堆满，佩佩曾走去询问当地市长是否有其他地方可以存放这些骨骼和文物，不料市长厉声训斥道：“管好你自己的该死闲事，把东西扔进教堂，然后闭上你的臭嘴！” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 撒丁岛圣阿纳斯塔西亚遗址发掘与转移流程 accDescr: 展示巨型遗骸与文物在出土后被集中、深夜移走并掩盖痕迹的流程 subgraph 挖掘与发现 A["遗址清理挖掘 (1980年代)"] --> B["出土9-12英尺巨骨与超大器物"] B --> C["甚至发现密封密室中坐于桌前的木乃伊化遗体"] end subgraph 临时存放与封口 C --> D["按指令转移至圣阿纳斯塔西亚教堂"] D --> E["地方官员严厉封口：“管好闲事并闭嘴”"] end subgraph 官方转运与抹除 E --> F["通知卡利亚里等地上级部门"] F --> G["深夜神秘车队进驻教堂"] G --> H["清晨现场被清空，文物骨骼下落不明"] end ``` ### [46:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2778s) 百岁老人的亲历：葡萄园的交叉巨骨与被水泥封死的努拉吉 阿尔贝里诺表示，这类口述在撒丁岛绝非孤例。他在当地采访了一位名叫维尔吉利奥（Zio Virgilio）的百岁老人。维尔吉利奥年轻时曾在当地的一处葡萄园工作，工人们在翻耕土壤准备种植葡萄时，突然犁出了大量巨大的人类骨骼。翻开土壤后，赫然出现了大约20具巨大的遗骸，而且它们是以相互交叉的“十字形”排列重叠堆放的。葡萄园主见状立即惊恐地喊停，声称必须马上通知当局，并要求所有工人立刻离开现场。 其他工人听闻后纷纷作鸟兽散，但维尔吉利奥因为舍不得当天的工钱，便悄悄躲在附近的灌木丛中。等大伙走远后，他又独自溜回地里继续耕作。园主返回发现他还在干活，气急败坏地质问他为何不走，维尔吉利奥回答说自己需要这份工钱养家，园主立刻许诺：“我给你开双倍工钱，你现在立刻从这里滚出去！”就在两人交涉时，官方的几辆厢型车呼啸而至。从车上下来的官方人员立刻拿出相机对这些以交叉姿态摆放的巨大骨骼进行全方位拍照，随后将所有骸骨悉数搬上车打包运走。紧接着，这些人员走向旁边一座被称为“努拉吉”（Nuraghe，撒丁岛特有的青铜时代巨石圆塔建筑），钻进塔内勘查拍照，并最终使用水泥将巨石塔内部的一处通道或隐秘空间彻底封死，随后扬长而去。 罗伯托与维尔吉利奥等老一辈村民大多生活在极其淳朴封闭的乡村，既没有收受调查团队的金钱，也完全没有撒谎编造故事的动机。在阿尔贝里诺叙述时，罗根在电脑上搜索相关新闻，发现搜索结果中大量提到在撒丁岛发现的所谓“巨人遗骸”，但点进去往往指的是20世纪70年代出土的“蒙特普拉马巨人”（Giants of Mont'e Prama）。阿尔贝里诺澄清指出，蒙特普拉马巨人实际上是陈列在博物馆中的7英尺高古代砂岩雕像，虽然有人猜测这些石雕是根据真实巨人的身体比例雕刻的，但它们与目击者口中挖出的真实骨骼完全是两码事，真正的骨骼发掘几乎从未见诸主流报道。 - 维尔吉利奥目击的葡萄园埋葬地中，约有20具巨型骨架以交叉结构重叠下葬。 - 官方人员到达后不仅带走了全部骨骼，还特意调配水泥彻底封闭了相邻努拉吉巨石塔内部的暗道。 - 撒丁岛民间关于巨人的传说高度一致，遗骸往往伴随着青铜时代的超大生活器具或特殊葬式一同出土。 ### [50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3000s) 黑市迷局、罗马古币与神父的“打碎尸骨”命令 罗根对这些惊人发现的证据链缺失提出了尖锐质疑。他认为如此多的巨大骨骸被挖出，却没有留下一张流出的照片，这令人感到不可思议；甚至按常理推断，也该有挥金如土的疯狂富豪私下接触工人，开出上千万美元的高价去收购一只巨大的骨手装进家里的玻璃展示柜，正如埃及或秘鲁、南美洲古文物在黑市上被猖獗盗掘偷运一样。 阿尔贝里诺对此解释道，撒丁岛的很多骨骸在第一时间就遭到官方的严密封锁与没收，且当地的社会环境极其闭塞。维尔吉利奥老人向他讲述的另一桩亲身经历，便直观展现了当时的民间风气与证据毁灭的过程：几十年前，维尔吉利奥和一名工友在为一栋民房挖掘地基时，意外挖出了一具极其巨大的石棺。两人合力撬开石棺后，赫然发现里面躺着一具极高大的人体遗骸，身上裹着某种黑色的织物，身旁还散落着多枚古罗马时期的钱币。后经辨认，那是罗马帝国皇帝安敦宁·毕尤（Antoninus Pius）统治时期铸造的钱币。 惊慌失措的工人们以为挖出了凶杀案的死者，便跑去向村里的天主教神父报告。神父闻讯来到地基土坑边向下张望，随后做出了极具戏剧性的处置： - 神父首先对工人们命令道：“把那些古币交给我。” - 随后神父指示工人们：“把这具尸骨彻底砸碎，搅拌到盖房子的地基泥土和混凝土里去。” 阿尔贝里诺强调，如果亲自去到撒丁岛的乡村，就会明白这一切为何没有照片留存。那里的偏远乡村仿佛时间停滞在上古时代，特别是这些事件大都发生在20世纪40年代、50年代和60年代（圣阿纳斯塔西亚的发掘则发生在70年代末至80年代初），当时根本没有拍照的设备和留存意识。在他访谈的众多随机当地老人中，几乎人人都能轻描淡写地讲出一两段类似的故事，诸如多年前在自家后院挖地窖或翻修地下室时，无意中挖出一只大得吓人的巨手骨头，随后要么被勒令丢弃，要么在沉默中被掩埋遗忘。 ### [52:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3136s) 圣埃莱娜的巨骨与巨型动物群的混淆 在探讨关于巨人的手骨化石时，蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）坦言，很多流传的巨人传闻确实存在非常普通且符合常理的科学解释。除了那些伴随精美钱币和珠宝出土的特殊遗骸外，历史上许多所谓的“巨人骨骼”实际上是史前巨型动物群（Megafauna）的化石，尤其是已经灭绝的巨型地懒骨骼。比如在《秘鲁纪事》中记载的厄瓜多尔圣埃莱娜半岛（Santa Elena Peninsula）案例，弗朗西斯科·皮萨罗（Francisco Pizarro）时期的西班牙编年史家们便记录过一段当地印第安土著的传说：古代曾有一群身材极其庞大、长着红头发的巨人乘坐巨大的芦苇船漂洋过海，在圣埃莱娜海岸登陆并开始蹂躏当地居民。 土著人对这群巨人恨之入骨，因为巨人食量惊人，一个人一顿能吃掉相当于五十个正常成年人的食物。不仅如此，传说巨人还在当地挖掘了深井，并用巨大的石块和粗大的木梁建造了房屋——直到16至18世纪西班牙征服者撰写纪事时，那些深井和建筑构件依然清晰可辨。传说还提到这群巨人没有携带任何女性，彼此行同性之苟且，最终遭到了天谴被神明彻底诛灭。然而阿尔贝里诺指出，圣埃莱娜在古生物学上正是全南美乃至世界上最重要的巨型动物群化石埋藏地之一，尤其是地懒化石堆积极其丰富。征服印加帝国之后的人们挖出那些形状奇特、畸形的骨骼，误以为是巨人的残骸，而乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）也插话说，当时这片土地上早已经没有活着的巨地懒，土著自然会将其附会为神话。阿尔贝里诺承认自己早期做调查时也曾轻信这些故事，直到后来了解了地质真相，才意识到必须尊重现实。 ### [56:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3369s) 普诺的档案调查与《秘鲁纪事》中的记录 即便圣埃莱娜的骨骼可以归咎为古生物化石，阿尔贝里诺强调，秘鲁古籍编年史中依然存在大量无法用巨型动物来搪塞的巨人记载。更重要的是，写下这些记录的作者并非旁门左道，而是记录西班牙征服秘鲁正史的权威编年史学者，例如贝尔纳韦·科博（Bernabé Cobo）、安东尼奥·德·拉·卡兰查（Antonio de la Calancha）以及佩德罗·西埃萨·德·莱昂（Pedro Cieza de León）。 阿尔贝里诺曾在秘鲁生活过十年，后来在2015至2016年前后拍摄巨人主题纪录片时，重返秘鲁并前往普诺（Puno）。在普诺，他拜访了知名考古学家埃德蒙多·德拉加拉（Edmundo de la Gala）。当阿尔贝里诺向他询问历史文献中是否有关于巨人的记载时，这位学者起初半信半疑，认为可能只有零星一两处提及。不料次日清晨，德拉加拉满面笑容地来到酒店大堂，递给阿尔贝里诺一张光盘。原来德拉加拉前一晚利用权限进入了数字化历史档案库，以“巨人”为关键词进行检索，其结果之多让他大吃一惊。除了关于圣埃莱娜半岛的旧事外，光盘中还收录了大量极为不可思议的官方宗教巡查档案。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Historical Chronicle Investigation in Peru accDescr: Flowchart illustrating the investigation of giant accounts in Peruvian historical archives. subgraph S1["实地走访普诺"] A["阿尔贝里诺求证于考古学家德拉加拉"] --> B["检索秘鲁数字化历史档案"] end subgraph S2["历史文献来源"] B --> C["权威编年史家记录<br/>(西埃萨·德·莱昂 / 科博 / 卡兰查)"] C --> D["教会官方巡查记录<br/>(阿里亚加与巡查官档案)"] end subgraph S3["两类截然不同的巨人记录"] D --> E["古生物误判型<br/>(圣埃莱娜巨地懒化石)"] D --> F["贵族礼葬型遗骸<br/>(身着印加昆比布的木乃伊)"] end ``` ### [58:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3480s) 阿里亚加神父与身披昆比布的巨人木乃伊 在这些档案中，最引人注目的莫过于耶稣会神父巴勃罗·何塞·德·阿里亚加（Pablo José de Arriaga）的经历。阿里亚加在1621年前后出版了著名的《秘鲁偶像崇拜之铲除》（*The Extirpation of Idolatry in Peru*）。在那个时期，他伴随着一批被称为“巡查官”（Visitadores）的狂热神职官员在秘鲁各村落巡行。这群人被称为“官方偶像猎人”，手段极其严厉，负责查缴土著居民暗中祭拜的传统神圣物（安第斯土著统称为“瓦卡”/ Huaca，可以是山峦、石雕或祖先神像），将其砸毁焚烧并强行对村民进行洗礼，同时将全部细节作为官方政务如实抄录在案。后来奥古斯丁派修士安东尼奥·德·拉·卡兰查也结合更多文献扩充了这一记录。 根据档案记录，阿里亚加一行来到一座村庄，追问村民将他们崇拜的“瓦卡”藏在何处。村民无可奈何，带着神父和巡查官来到村子远端的一个大洞穴。进洞之后，神职人员发现了大量古代异教徒的干瘪死者，其中赫然陈列着两具身披“昆比布”（Cumbi）的巨人遗体，宛如神圣灵庙一般被供奉着。 - **昆比布的特殊意义**：昆比（Cumbi）是一种工艺极度精巧奢华的高级纺织面料，在印加帝国属于法律明文规定仅供印加王室贵族专用的礼服材料，普通平民私自穿戴属于违法重罪。 - **神庙中的巨人祖先**：这两具遗体虽然已经干瘪，但保存相当完好，宛如木乃伊，并且体态硕大无朋，被隆重地披上象征最高权贵的昆比布。 - **村民的供述与遗骸的命运**：村民向巡查官坦白，这两位被供奉的巨人并非外敌，而是他们整个氏族的始祖与先祖神灵。巡查官按照惯例，当场将这两具巨人遗体抬出洞穴，带回村中当众纵火化为灰烬。 阿尔贝里诺分析指出，这绝不可能是某种地懒或乳齿象的化石误认，因为化石不可能完好保留着人体轮廓的皮肉，更不可能有人给史前兽骨穿戴上印加最高等级的纺织服饰；这与安第斯山脉土著千百年来源流的“巨人先祖”传说完美咬合。 ### [01:01:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3718s) 历史遗产的毁灭冲动与凯拉萨神庙 对于巡查官将不可多得的巨人木乃伊当众焚毁的行径，罗根大为感慨，指出人类文明中始终存在着一种令人匪夷所思的狂热冲动——即狂暴地摧毁前人留下的历史遗迹与文化产物。罗根列举了塔利班炸毁巴米扬大佛等现代极端行径，并提到过去诸多帝国与文明对先前遗址的破坏。 罗根提到他们前几天在节目中才讨论过的印度凯拉萨神庙（Kailasa Temple）。那座由整座玄武岩山体直接垂直向下凿削而成的恢弘古迹，曾经让后来的统治者极度看不顺眼。据史料记载，莫卧儿帝国统治者曾派遣上千人带着工具前往埃洛拉，试图将其彻底移平。然而工人们耗费了整整三年时间日夜破坏，最终也仅仅只是损坏了部分雕像的面容和细节，对整座宏伟的山体建筑几乎毫发无损，最终只能悻悻罢手。两人就此感叹，盲目的宗教狂热和统治意志曾抹杀了无数足以解开上古谜团的关键物证。 ### [01:02:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3767s) 凯拉萨神庙的顽强与历史上的文化浩劫 乔·罗根与蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺探讨了古代建筑的鬼斧神工，以及人类文明中屡见不鲜的破坏冲动。罗根提到了印度著名的凯拉萨神庙（Kailasa Temple），这座令人叹为观止的建筑完全是由一整座火山岩巨山自顶向下凿刻雕琢出来的单体岩石巨构。两人打趣起莫卧儿帝国皇帝奥朗则布（Aurangzeb）那个难念的名字。史料记载，奥朗则布曾于 1682 年下令彻底摧毁凯拉萨神庙，然而他的军队面对这整座坚硬如铁的玄武岩山体束手无策，在长达数年的野蛮凿砸中，仅仅只能破坏掉几尊外表的雕像，最终不得不徒劳放弃。这种令人敬畏的古代工程奇迹，展现了远超后人破坏能力的建造韧性。 阿尔贝里诺由此感叹，人类历史上总有一种“毁灭古老迷人造物”的恶疾。最令人扼腕叹息的悲剧莫过于中美洲的遭遇：天主教会的各路神职人员与代理人，曾系统性、蓄意地焚毁了几乎所有阿兹特克与玛雅的珍贵手抄本（Codices），那些古卷中保存的原住民历史、天文历法与古老世界认知，在一把大火中灰飞烟灭。罗根随即附和并提到了多次被焚毁的亚历山大图书馆，人类历史上无数不可替代的智慧结晶就这样彻底湮灭在历史的灰烬里。 - 凯拉萨神庙位于印度埃洛拉石窟，是一座完全从上至下开凿的单体岩石结构殿堂。 - 莫卧儿皇帝奥朗则布在 1682 年曾派出军队企图彻底铲平该神庙，但因工程量超出人力破坏极限而宣告失败。 - 中美洲玛雅与阿兹特克的绝大多数图画手抄本在西班牙殖民扩张及宗教清洗期间被彻底焚毁。 --- ### [01:04:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3845s) 北美土丘与 19 世纪报刊中的“巨人遗骸”狂热 话题顺理成章地转向了北美大陆隐藏的未解历史之谜。阿尔贝里诺指出，从 19 世纪中叶一直到 20 世纪初，美国各地的报纸上频繁充斥着大量关于挖掘出“巨人骨骸”的惊人报道。在密西西比河以东的广袤土地上，曾经矗立着数以千计的史前土丘与巨型土方工程（Mounds and Earthworks），很多人至今都无法想象当年的规模有多么庞大。这些土丘形态各异，有模仿图腾的异形丘（Effigy mounds）、平台式土丘，以及为数众多的埋葬土丘。大多数墓穴里出土的仅仅是原住民的普通骸骨与日常用具，但在当时的诸多记录中，却频频出现令人难以置信的巨大骨架与奇特文物。 罗根让制作人杰米（Jamie）调出当时的报纸档案，屏幕上随即显示出 1872 年以及路易斯和理查德·柯林斯所著《肯塔基州历史》（History of Kentucky）中记载的“超过 10 英尺高（约 3 米多）的巨人骨架”。阿尔贝里诺客观地指出，当时的美国报业处于极度激烈的竞争环境，耸人听闻的标题和夸大其词是家常便饭，其中确实充斥着不少为了博人眼球而伪造的骗局（Hoaxes）。然而，也有一些展览过的遗骸引发了巨大争议，甚至衍生出了针对史密森尼学会（Smithsonian Institution）系统性收缴并掩盖异常考古证据的长期阴谋论。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 19 世纪北美土丘考古与巨人报道流程 accDescr: 展示北美土丘发掘出土巨大骨骸后引发的报刊报道与后续争议 subgraph Mounds["北美史前土丘"] A["数千座密西西比河流域土丘"] --> B["埋葬土丘与平台土丘开掘"] end subgraph Media["19 世纪报刊现象"] B --> C["频频报道发掘出8至10英尺巨人骸骨"] C --> D["报业商业竞争与耸人听闻夸张"] C --> E["部分真实未知考古遗存?"] end subgraph Controversy["归宿与争议"] D --> F["被指认为恶作剧与骗局"] E --> G["遗骸移交博物馆机构"] G --> H["引发史密森尼学会隐瞒证据的猜测"] end ``` --- ### [01:06:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3980s) 亚伯拉罕·林肯的尼亚加拉瀑布手稿：巨人还是史前巨兽？ 阿尔贝里诺抛出了一个极具震撼力的历史细节：就连美国总统亚伯拉罕·林肯（Abraham Lincoln），似乎也在其未经发表的演讲笔记中提及了这群神秘的“巨人”。在 1848 年前后林肯游览尼亚加拉瀑布所写下的散文手稿中，他以极其诗意且充满激情的笔调写道： > “那种已经绝迹的巨人物种，它们的眼眸曾凝视过尼亚加拉，一如我们此刻所见；而如今，它们的骨骸正充填着美洲的那些土丘。” 两人对林肯这段话的真实意图展开了激烈讨论。主流历史学界的反驳观点通常认为，林肯在这段话之后紧接着提到了猛犸象（Mammoth）和乳齿象（Mastodon），因此他所谓的“巨人”指的不过是史前巨型哺乳动物化石。但阿尔贝里诺反驳道，批评者往往选择性忽略了林肯行文的前后语境：在写下“骨骸充填土丘的绝迹巨人”之前，林肯正处于极其强烈的圣经神学叙事中，他先后列举了基督在十字架上的受难、摩西率领以色列人过红海、以及始祖亚当刚刚走出造物主之手。在圣经语境里，“巨人”本身就是一个具有明确物理形态的独立概念，而非代指野兽。 更关键的证据在于考古现实——美洲的土丘里绝非“充填着乳齿象和巨獭的骨头”。虽然偶有作为陪葬或仪式祭品的象牙、骨雕饰品出土，但土丘中从来没有成批埋葬的史前巨兽整具骨架。当时正值全美报纸疯狂报道土丘中挖出人形巨骨的时期，林肯显然耳闻了这些公共讨论。尽管罗根认为林肯的措辞略显含糊、如果真有确凿的巨人遗骸应该会有更详尽的记载，但双方都承认，在当时的时代文化背景下，这一引用显得扑朔迷离且极富戏剧性。 - 林肯手稿段落先溯及哥伦布、基督受难、摩西出埃及乃至亚当受造，随后引出凝视瀑布的“绝种巨人”。 - 美洲原住民土丘考古中，绝少发现完整的大型古生物化石骨架，这与“骨骸填满土丘”的表述并不吻合。 - 圣经文本中有多处关于巨人族（如拿非利人 Nephilim、利乏音人 Rephaim）的记载，林肯的文化背景对此极其熟悉。 --- ### [01:10:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4219s) 博物馆的隐瞒猜想与阿拉斯加“白骨矿场”的惊人发现 面对关于史密森尼学会压制非主流古人类学发现的传言，罗根半开玩笑地呼吁：“史密森尼学会里总该有个受够了这一切的深喉爆料人吧？带上你的智能手机，悄悄溜进地下仓库去拍点真家伙出来！” 谈到大型博物馆对待异常化石的态度，罗根聊起了自己的好友约翰·里夫斯（John Reeves）以及纽约美国自然历史博物馆之间的恩怨。约翰·里夫斯是阿拉斯加著名的采矿业主，拥有被称为“白骨矿场（The Boneyard）”的庞大土地。里夫斯在这片永久冻土带进行淘金作业时，利用高压水枪冲刷冻土泥炭层，结果意外冲刷出了数量极其惊人、堆积如山的更新世动物化石残骸——数以千计的猛犸象象牙、洞熊骨骼，以及各种在主流学术观点中原本“根本不可能在该时期生活在阿拉斯加”的古生物遗存。这些被冲刷出来的化石不仅直接迫使古生物学家重新审视北美极地当年的物种分布与气候生态，其泥层中更夹杂着一层显眼的黑色碳化沉积带，极其鲜明地暗示着远古时代曾有一场突如其来的剧烈灾难性事件，瞬间冰封并掩埋了这一切。 ### [01:11:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4312s) 阿拉斯加骨场：永久冻土中的巨型动物坟场与突发灾难 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）向提摩西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）生动描绘了阿拉斯加著名的“骨场”（The Boneyard，由约翰·里夫斯持有）中令人震撼的发现。里夫斯从自家的永久冻土层中挖掘出了堆满数座仓库的史前巨兽遗骸，其年代大多定格在距今一万年以内。罗根提到，美国自然历史博物馆曾从该地块的前任所有者手中获取了数以吨计的化石标本，即使如今产权明确属于里夫斯，博物馆仍拒绝归还任何一件，因此里夫斯严禁外人将新出土的骨骼带离现场。他在当地自建了一座科学研究设施，欢迎学者前来进行科研探讨——知名歌手波兹·马龙（Post Malone）也曾慕名造访。罗根展示了一块里夫斯赠送给他的猛犸象牙齿（化石化的象臼齿），上面甚至被雕刻了艺术纹样，尽管罗根觉得在珍贵的化石上雕花“有些诡异”，但标本本身的宏伟仍让阿尔贝里诺赞叹不已。 这处遗址最引人深思之处在于其极度反常的化石密集度：在仅有四到六英亩的核心区域内，竟然重叠堆积着数不清的完整乳齿象骨架与猛犸象牙。阿尔贝里诺探寻为何会有如此庞大且集中的巨型动物群骨骼埋藏于此。罗根解释道，里夫斯坚信这对应着新仙女木期撞击假说（Younger Dryas impact hypothesis）所描绘的全球性大灭绝事件，时间点约为公元前11,000年左右。经实测年代测定，许多出土骨骼的确处于该剧变窗口期。地形分析显示，这些动物并非自然死亡后慢慢被掩埋，而是几乎在同一时刻集体暴毙，随即被席卷而来的狂暴洪流冲刷席卷，顺着地表褶皱与谷地轮廓汇聚到了这一处狭小的低洼地带，并迅速被永久冻土深冻封存至今。 --- ### [01:14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4456s) 瞬间冰冻与全球大火：新仙女木期彗星撞击的痕迹 谈及巨兽的死亡状态，阿尔贝里诺指出最具震撼力的是那些口中仍含着未咀嚼完的食物就被“瞬间冻结”的猛犸象和乳齿象标本。许多遗骸的腿骨折断，呈现出遭受巨大冲击波横扫瞬间毙命的惨烈景象。两人探讨了关于这种极速速冻现象的假说：新仙女木期可能有彗星以超高速度撕裂地球大气层，其产生的巨大气压真空将外太空零下极低温的气流直接“吸入”并猛烈喷射到地表，超低温气浪瞬间冻结了沿途的所有活物。虽然这一物理机制仍有待证实，但常规气候变化很难解释这种数分钟内连同消化道内食物一起“速冻”的极端现象。 与此同时，地球其他区域呈现出截然不同却同样极端的毁灭景象——大范围的生物质焚烧（biomass burning）。在某些地区，动物被急冻封存；在另一些地区，巨型动物被大洪水冲散溺亡；而在更多地层中，古植物和动物残骸则与剧烈的全球野火炭化层混杂在一起。地质学界在地层中广泛检测到了极高浓度的铱元素（iridium）和深色碳层。铱在地球外壳极其稀少而在天体陨石中极度丰富，此外地质样本中还发现了微小的核玻璃球（熔融石英玻璃，与“三位一体”核试验爆炸现场形成的绿玻璃极其相似）。这些无可辩驳的物理物证共同指向约公元前11,000年发生过一场人类难以想象的全球性宇宙撞击浩劫。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 新仙女木期多重灾难链假说 accDescr: 展现彗星撞击地球后引发的超低温速冻、全球野火与剧烈融冰洪水三种并存的灾难现象 subgraph Impact["天体撞击事件 (约公元前 11,000 年)"] A["彗星高速撕裂大气层"] end subgraph Disasters["多维度极端浩劫"] B["高空真空卷吸太空超低温气流<br/>瞬间速冻巨型动物（口含咀嚼草料）"] C["撞击溅射物高速回落<br/>引发全球生物质焚烧与大火（铱层/碳层）"] D["撞击数英里厚北美冰盖<br/>巨量冰川瞬间融化爆发超大洪水"] end subgraph Consequences["地质沉积与灭绝结果"] E["阿拉斯加骨场：巨兽骨骸被洪流冲入洼地并永久冻存"] F["65% 北美巨型动物瞬间灭绝；沿海河岸人类文明抹除"] end A --> B A --> C A --> D B --> E C --> F D --> E D --> F ``` --- ### [01:16:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4571s) 冰盖融化、海岸文明湮灭与“过度狩猎说”的荒谬性 两人的话题延伸到地质学者兰德尔·卡尔森（Randall Carlson）的研究。卡尔森认为，这场撞击正发生在一至两英里厚（覆盖北美大陆四分之三区域）的劳伦泰德冰盖（Laurentide Ice Sheet）之上。当一颗城市大小的彗星以毁灭性动能砸入两英里厚的冰层，巨量的冰体被瞬间过热汽化与融化，激起滔天巨浪横扫大陆，塑造了如今五大湖的形态以及从卫星图像上清晰可见的大规模冲刷地貌。冰盖的高温喷射物更引燃了广袤的森林。如果当时存在高度发达的文明，尤其是沿河、沿海依水而居的人类聚落，在暴涨的海平面和内陆洪峰面前根本毫无还手之力，瞬间被彻底抹除殆尽。只有极少数幸存者流落荒野，人类文明不得不需要经历数千年漫长岁月才得以“重新发明”。 海平面急剧上升和北美大陆冰盖融化是现代地质学与考古学公认的历史事实，在距今仅一万一千至一万两千年前的极近地质年代，北美约65%的巨型哺乳动物几乎在同一时间走向灭绝。阿尔贝里诺与罗根对某些人类学家的主流解释嗤之以鼻——至今仍有学者固执地主张是古代原住民用原始的掷矛器（atlatls）和石尖长矛“过度狩猎”，导致了猛犸象、剑齿虎等庞然大物的整体灭绝。罗根直言这种观点“绝对是荒谬透顶”，当时的人类甚至连弓箭是否普及都无法确定，企图将大陆尺度的物种灭绝归咎于零星猎人的捕杀，完全无视了地质记录中无可辩驳的全球大灾变硬证据。 - **巨型动物灭绝比例**：新仙女木事件期导致北美约65%的巨型动物（megafauna）遭遇灭绝。 - **劳伦泰德冰盖规模**：厚度达1至2英里，一度覆盖了北美大陆近75%的土地。 - **狩猎工具与认知断层**：主流学派认为当时古印第安人仅凭投枪器（atlatl）与石矛就猎尽整个大陆的猛犸与乳齿象，阿尔贝里诺和罗根一致认为这在逻辑与生态学上完全站不住脚。 --- ### [01:18:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4710s) 相对侵蚀法测定金字塔年代与主流考古学的教条 阿尔贝里诺提到，全球古代神话中关于“巨人”的普遍记载与关于“全球浩劫”的记忆是高度同频共振的。罗根随即分享了一篇刚刚发表的重磅研究，让导播杰米（Young Jamie）调出题为《吉萨大金字塔是否远比我们想象的要古老？一项新研究给出了肯定答案》的文章。这篇发布于2026年1月的论文由意大利工程师阿尔贝托·多尼尼（Alberto Donini）撰写，提出了一种被称为“相对侵蚀法”（relative erosion method）的非传统测年方法。传统考古学界将胡夫金字塔的建造时间死死锁定在公元前2560年左右；然而多尼尼通过计算金字塔基部花岗岩的花岗岩侵蚀形态与风化时间轴，得出其建造时间可能比现有认知早数万年，甚至可以追溯到旧石器时代晚期。 这一观点与本·范·克尔克维克（Ben van Kerkwyk，UnchartedX频道创办者）的研究不谋而合。范·克尔克维克曾指出，埃及多处古遗址明显呈现出“在原本极古老的原始基石之上二次修筑”的分层现象。罗根对主流考古学界对这一发现的质疑态度发表了尖锐抨击。他认为考古学在很多层面并不能算作严谨的硬科学： > “我不认为考古学是一门严谨的科学。我认为考古学者往往是在看着残存碎片进行主观猜测，他们虽然借用科学工具，但一旦确立了自己的时间线，就死死抱守、极度抗拒任何修正。” 罗根列举了此前哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）的年代颠覆，以及狮身人面像及其周围神庙的水蚀痕迹研究所遭遇的学界阻力，直指学院派考古体系因维护既有学术权威而表现出的教条与保守。 ### [01:21:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4872s) 狮身人面像的侵蚀年代与金字塔地下结构 乔·罗根与蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）讨论了狮身人面像的水侵蚀测定数据。罗根指出，测量数据显示其侵蚀程度相当于暴露了 2 万至 4 万年以上，对全部 12 个测量点取算术平均值，得出的结论约为距今 24,900 年（约公元前 22,900 年）。如果这一数据属实，传统历史叙事将被彻底颠覆。此外，罗根还提及了菲利波·比昂迪（Filippo Biondi）等人利用合成孔径雷达断层扫描（radio tomography）在吉萨金字塔下方勘测到的异常现象，数据显示地下深达 1.2 公里处疑似存在巨型地下结构。 - 狮身人面像侵蚀测定：12 处测量点算术平均得出的年代约为公元前 22,900 年（距今约 24,900 年），部分点位测定出的暴露侵蚀时间高达 2 万到 4 万年以上。 - 比昂迪的雷达断层扫描研究：显示吉萨金字塔群下方可能存在延伸至地表以下 1.2 公里的深层结构。 --- ### [01:22:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4922s) 阿尔贝里诺与扎希·哈瓦斯在皮尔斯·摩根节目中的交锋 阿尔贝里诺分享了他受邀参加英国名嘴皮尔斯·摩根（Piers Morgan）访谈节目的经历。节目组原本只告诉他是去聊金字塔，到了现场才发现埃及考古学权威扎希·哈瓦斯（Zahi Hawass）以及研究者吉米·科塞蒂（Jimmy Corsetti）也在场。皮尔斯·摩根一贯喜欢制造针锋相对的交锋场面，当场把机会抛给阿尔贝里诺，让他向哈瓦斯提问。阿尔贝里诺表示，自己和团队在秘鲁实地考察中掌握了先进的无人机探地雷达（GPR）技术，这种设备完全挂载在无人机平台上，只需在金字塔上空飞行扫描，根本无需接触金字塔或挖掘地表，完全不会对任何历史文物造成丝毫损伤，就能探测验证金字塔下方是否存在异常地下结构。 面对提问，哈瓦斯在镜头前表现得非常开明和大度，当场交代皮尔斯·摩根的团队交换联络方式以便后续合作。然而节目结束后，哈瓦斯方面彻底石沉大海，从未真正推进此事。罗根对此大为不解，认为面对地球上人类建造的最壮丽、年代最具争议的奇迹，在完全不用开掘破坏的前提下，主流学界为何会拒绝动用现代无损技术去深入探索。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 无人机探地雷达验证地下结构流程 accDescr: 描述阿尔贝里诺向哈瓦斯提议的无损检测方案及后续结果 subgraph Proposal ["阿尔贝里诺的无损检测方案"] A["无人机平台搭载 GPR"] --> B["在金字塔周边空域巡检"] B --> C["无需挖掘且不接触文物"] C --> D["验证地下是否存在巨型空洞结构"] end subgraph Reaction ["官方反应与结果"] D --> E["哈瓦斯在电视镜头前公开表示欢迎"] E --> F["承诺交换联系方式并推进"] F --> G["节目结束后再无任何下文"] end ``` --- ### [01:24:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5056s) 正统年代学的执念与古代法老的“刻名”惯例 罗根与阿尔贝里诺深入剖析了主流埃及学为何顽固坚守“公元前 2500 年”这一正统时间线。罗根认为，即使按照传统观点认为金字塔建于公元前 2500 年，当时的人类究竟如何完成如此不可思议的工程依然争议巨大；若承认其年代更为古老，无非说明有更早的人类生活在那里。然而正统学术界长期以来始终以不容置疑的权威姿态宣称“胡夫建造了金字塔”，一旦承认错误，其学术权威性将荡然无存。 更为关键的是，古代统治者在掌权后有着极强的虚荣心，习惯在所有前代遗迹上刻下自己的名号据为己有，甚至直接重新雕刻狮身人面像的面部。关于狮身人面像面部未被严重侵蚀的争议，罗根反驳了主流学界所谓的“面部石质更坚硬”说：狮身人面像的身体部分在历史长河中绝大部分时间都被深埋在黄沙之下，理应受到保护免受风雨侵蚀，但出土后其身体躯干的风化侵蚀程度却远远超过暴露在外的头部，这充分证明它经历过一段极其漫长的暴雨侵蚀期。 --- ### [01:25:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5140s) 倒错的历史观：现代人的傲慢与古代的“黄金时代” 阿尔贝里诺指出，现代西方人审视历史时存在一个根本性的认知倒错（inversion of the timeline of history）。受进化论线性史观的影响，现代人往往将远古祖先视为刚从黑猩猩演化而来、智力低下的穴居野蛮人，认为人类沿着时间轴不断进步，现代人才是智慧与科技的顶峰。 然而，所有古代文明对历史的看法恰恰与现代人相反。在古人的宇宙观中，他们从不认为自己是文明巅峰，反而自认是后进的“蠢人”，终其一生都在试图恢复和重现前代文明的荣光与宏伟： - **前洪水时代（Antediluvian World）与黄金时代**：古希腊人称之为“黄金时代”（Golden Age），古埃及人称之为“第一时代”（Zep Tepi）。神明或高级存有曾降临大地与人类共存，传授先进知识并建造宏伟城市（如亚特兰蒂斯神话所描述）。 - **全球性突发大灾难**：那个辉煌的世界遭遇了突如其来的灭顶之灾并彻底覆灭，随后留存的人类文明不过是在灾难后的废墟中挣扎重建，试图发掘、拼凑并仿制远古祖先遗留下来的失落知识。 --- ### [01:28:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5316s) 秘鲁巨石遗迹与印加之前的“巨人传说” 阿尔贝里诺将视线转向秘鲁的巨石建筑。他提到萨克塞华曼（Sacsayhuamán）那令人震撼的独眼巨人式（cyclopean）巨石砌体，以及马丘比丘（Machu Picchu）和奥扬泰坦博（Ollantaytambo）。秘鲁官方考古学家千篇一律地将这些奇迹归功于印加人，但实际上印加人没有任何文献或工程记录表明这些巨石墙是他们建造的。 当向当地仍然穿着传统服饰、操着克丘亚语（Quechua）的原住民询问萨克塞华曼的缔造者时，他们会明确回答那是“巨人群体”（a race of giants）——也就是传说中的远古始祖所建。同样，如果前往玻利维亚境内的的喀喀湖（Lake Titicaca）畔向艾马拉人（Aymara）打听蒂亚瓦纳科（Tiwanaku）巨石建筑的来历，得到的回答完全一致：“那是巨人们建造的”。阿尔贝里诺澄清，这并不意味着这些建筑在物理意义上真的由神话巨人砌成，但它不可否认地证明了所有本土古老记忆都指向同一个核心事实：在已知历史之前，曾存在一个能力远超后人的宏伟时代，而遍布世界各地的真正巨石建筑上，从来没有留下后代文明惯有的原始建造铭文。 ### [01:30:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5441s) 马丘比丘的巨石地基与印加叠建之谜 蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）与乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）深入探讨了秘鲁古代遗址中的建筑断层现象。阿尔贝里诺指出，在奥扬泰坦博（Ollantaytambo）以及秘鲁的其他遗迹中，非常明显的一点是印加人确实是在前人留下的巨石地基上进行建造的。任何文明面对如此宏伟、巨大的抗震地基，都会顺理成章地加以利用并在此基础上筑造建筑。然而，现代人必须意识到，今天所见的马丘比丘大部分属于现代考古复原工程，只有那些底部的基石是最初完好留存下来的。从海勒姆·宾厄姆（Hiram Bingham）当年偶然发现该遗址时拍摄的黑白老照片中，就能清晰看到这些原生巨石地基的存在。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 马丘比丘建筑风格分层 accDescr: 展示马丘比丘从史前巨石地基到印加人建造，再到现代考古复原的建筑结构演变过程 subgraph Heritage ["历史遗存结构"] A["史前超精细巨石地基<br/>（严丝合缝的多边形抗震巨石）"] B["印加人上层建筑<br/>（尝试模仿但工艺较为粗糙）"] A --> B end subgraph ModernEra ["现代重构"] C["考古修复工程<br/>（依据印加残迹复原）"] B --> C end ``` 阿尔贝里诺回忆起自己曾多次前往马丘比丘拍摄。有一次，他和同事安塞尔姆·皮·兰布拉（Anselm Pi Rambla）同行，并由一位知识渊博的官方资深年长向导带领参观。那位向导不断向他们介绍印加人高超的营造技术，阿尔贝里诺也承认印加人确实建树颇丰。然而，建筑立面上两种风格的对比实在过于刺眼：底部是令人惊叹的多边形巨石，拼合紧密得连一把黄油刀都插不进去；而架设其上的，则是被部分学者戏称为“印加劣作”（Inca slop）的粗糙石墙——印加人试图模仿下方的风格，但工艺远不够精准。当阿尔贝里诺指着庭院对面的精美多边形墙基以及上面的粗劣加盖物询问向导“为什么会有两种截然不同的风格”时，向导竟回答：“因为他们喜欢那种外观。” 阿尔贝里诺对这种说辞感到不可思议，反驳道：“你又不傻，他们绝不是因为‘好看’才这么干的。”在无与伦比的顶级地基上加盖工艺低劣的建筑，唯一合理的解释就是后来的印加人根本没有掌握那种失落的巨石砌筑技术，只能尽其所能用粗浅的方式模仿。罗根随后补充道，仅仅是那些巨石的庞大体量和严密接缝，就引发了无尽的疑问：印加人当时的工具和技术根本无法搬运并安放这些仿佛被高温“熔接”在一起的庞然大物。 - 海勒姆·宾厄姆拍摄的最早一批黑白历史照片证实，印加遗址最原始的形态即由巨石基础构成。 - 巨石拼接的缝隙极为致密，连极薄的黄油刀都无法穿透。 - 下层精密多边形巨石与上层粗糙石材之间存在清晰分明的工艺断层界线。 --- ### [01:34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5674s) 奥扬泰坦博的弧形转角巨石与全球石匠印记 为了进一步证明这一观点，阿尔贝里诺极力推荐罗根去库斯科与马丘比丘之间的必经之地——奥扬泰坦博（Ollantaytambo）。那里拥有全地球最叹为观止的巨石建筑群，同时并存着两种史前风格：一种是类似萨克塞华曼（Sacsayhuamán）的多边形巨石墙，另一种则是类似于蒂亚瓦纳科（Tiwanaku）的互锁型石块。阿尔贝里诺特别提到奥扬泰坦博一处令他每次带队都惊叹不已的细节：在一段向上延伸的楼梯旁，整面石墙呈现弧形过渡。 通常情况下，哪怕是现代最顶尖的石匠为亿万富翁修建豪宅，遇到转角时也只会采用公母榫咬合或互锁砌块的方式，或者直接浇筑可塑的水泥。然而，奥扬泰坦博的建造者竟然直接将单块巨石雕琢出弧度，让整块巨大的坚石直接弯曲过渡进入墙角拐弯处。这种极其繁复、难度登天的工艺让人不禁发问：“究竟是借助了怎样的技术才能做到？” 更令人震撼的是，这种匪夷所思的建造指纹在全球多处巨石遗址中反复出现。在埃及的金字塔与神庙区域，同样可以发现转角处直接弯折雕琢的巨石，石块上甚至普遍留有至今无法解释的突起“凸台”（nubs）。对此，罗根与阿尔贝里诺感叹，这些惊人的巨石不仅单块重达数十吨，而且天然具备消散地震波能量的抗震几何结构。世界各地古代工匠之间似乎存在着一种无所不在、高度同源的超级石工知识体系。 --- ### [01:38:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5905s) 征服者的教堂与失落的古代技艺 话题转向16世纪西班牙征服时期的历史对照。阿尔贝里诺让罗根设想一个场景：如果身处1532至1534年间，跟随弗朗西斯科·皮萨罗（Francisco Pizarro）入侵秘鲁的西班牙征服者行列，目睹了眼前这些巧夺天工的巨石奇迹，并在推翻印加帝国、占领首都库斯科之后开始大兴土木。 西班牙人为了宣示统治权威，拆除了萨克塞华曼上层的巨石，运往库斯科市中心用来建造天主教大教堂和殖民总督宫殿。然而耐人寻味的是，欧洲建筑师完全没有沿用当地多边形互锁与无缝抗震技术，而是直接退回到欧洲传统做法——用砂浆和水泥把平整石块简单黏合堆砌在一起。阿尔贝里诺指出，这也是驳斥“印加人拥有巨石砌筑技术”的有力证据：如果当时的印加石工真的掌握着这套甚至能有效抵抗强烈地震的卓越建筑技术，西班牙建筑师为什么不用枪炮和奴役逼迫印加人按照这种精密的方式来建造大教堂呢？唯一的真相就是，彼时的印加人自己也早已遗失了这门神乎其神的远古建筑奥秘。 ### [01:39:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5974s) 奥扬泰坦博未完成的巨石与戛然而止的工程 乔·罗根与蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺探讨了一个核心逻辑矛盾：如果印加人掌握着建造这些巨石遗迹的惊人技术，为何征服秘鲁的西班牙人没有逼迫印加人交出这些技术？阿尔贝里诺指出，如果能掌握这种“独眼巨人式”（Cyclopean）巨石砌筑风格，任何人都能成为世界上最伟大的建筑师，并在欧洲造出最壮丽的大教堂。 屏幕上展示着奥扬泰坦博（Ollantaytambo）山顶太阳神庙的遗址照片。那里的石块表面平滑如镜，明显经过了精心打磨。令人震惊的是，现场许多数十吨重的巨石正处于被搬运与塑形的半途，原本正准备拼入墙体，却突然在某一时刻戛然而止。主流考古学通常将停工归咎于16世纪西班牙征服者的入侵，但阿尔贝里诺认为这完全站不住脚——真正让如此浩大工程在一瞬间彻底瘫痪的，是一场全球性的毁灭性灾难，比如新仙女木期的彗星撞击事件。罗根也仔细观察着遗址细节，注意到有些墙体外层是严丝合缝的精美巨石，内层则填充着碎石；尤其是一张照片中，一名男子身后的拐角巨石并不是两块石头拼接而成，而是整块石头直接沿着转角雕琢出弧度弯折过去，这种工艺在现代建筑师看来都极其不可思议。 ### [01:41:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6112s) 神秘石突、抗震技术与“越古老越先进”的颠倒悖论 两人将目光转向巨石上普遍存在的“石突”（nubs）——一种微微凸起于石块表面的小凸起。罗根感叹这种特征遍布全球各地的巨石建筑，有人猜测它们是起重、搬运时的着力点，或是加工过程中的浇铸痕迹，但至今考古界没有任何令人信服的解释。阿尔贝里诺则指向大石块之间嵌入的较小石片，指出这是一种精妙绝伦的“抗震技术”：它允许巨石在地震的剧烈摇晃中微幅位移、释放能量，而不会相互挤碎倒塌。在奥扬泰坦博，同一处遗址竟并存着两种截然不同的工艺风格：一种是多边形接缝风格，另一种则是源自玻利维亚蒂亚瓦纳科（Tiwanaku）的矩形联锁风格。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 巨石遗址的倒挂建造层级与技术谜团 accDescr: 展示全球巨石遗址普遍存在的底层先进巨石与顶层粗糙修补的反差架构 subgraph Anomaly["考古层级倒挂现象"] A["底层基座：数十吨精美多边形巨石\n（严丝合缝、内置抗震缓冲结构）"] B["上层建筑：粗糙碎石与泥浆堆砌\n（技术代际显著退化）"] B -->|坐落于| A end subgraph Hypotheses["两种历史解释模型"] C["主流考古观点：印加/晚期文明建造\n（无法解释为何早期最精、技术突然失传）"] D["灾变文明假说：史前高技术文明建造基底\n（大灾变灭绝后，原始后人仅在其上二次定居与修补）"] end Anomaly -.-> Hypotheses ``` 这引发了巨石考古中最棘手的颠倒悖论：为什么在全世界所有这些遗迹中，最古老、位于最底层的地基反而是工程规模最宏伟、技术最复杂、最严丝合缝的，而越往上层建造，工艺反而越显得原始粗糙？主流学术界不愿正视一个显而易见的可能性——即最古老的文明实际上更为发达复杂，而且拥有跨大洋航行的全球性互通知识网络。在传统的历史叙事中，公元前20000年的人类只被允许是“披着兽皮、手持木矛、大脑稍发达一点的黑猩猩式野蛮人”，而承认这些巨石的存在将彻底击垮这一历史线性进化模型。 - **多边形接缝（Polygonal）与矩形联锁（Rectangular interlocking）**：奥扬泰坦博同时呈现出印加传统与蒂亚瓦纳科风格的混合。 - **抗震缓冲机制**：大石之间填充较小石材，确保地震时受力滑动而不致崩解垮塌。 - **神秘凸起（Nubs）**：普遍存在于秘鲁、埃及等全球各地的巨石表面，至今用途成谜。 ### [01:44:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6248s) 库斯科大地震与失落的技术：文明为何会“遗忘”建造巨石？ 为了证明这种技术的优越性，阿尔贝里诺回顾了殖民时期的真实历史。16世纪末西班牙人征服库斯科后，拆毁了印加宫殿与神庙，利用原有的巨石地基在其上建造天主教大教堂。然而在此后的数次大地震中，西班牙人建造的宏伟大教堂全部震毁倒塌，而底部的印加巨石地基以及萨克塞瓦曼（Sacsayhuamán）的巨石城墙却纹丝不动、毫发无损。阿尔贝里诺反问道：“如果当时印加人真的掌握着这种防震建造秘诀，天底下有哪个建筑师在能够奴役印加人的情况下，会拒绝学习并将这种技术应用到自己的建筑中？” 即使有人辩解称印加的统治阶级秘而不宣——印加贵族由被称为“阿毛塔”（Amawtas）的大学士和贤者进行封闭式精英传授，且印加人没有书面文字，仅依靠由绳结组成的“奇普”（Quipu）记录信息——但这依然无法解释为何如此宝贵的工程智慧会突然彻底蒸发。罗根与阿尔贝里诺一致认为，人类绝不会平白无故遗忘如此关键的生存与建筑技术，正如现代人绝不会突然忘记如何制造计算机一样。唯一的合理解释，正如古代神话与不断被证实的新仙女木撞击假说所揭示的那样：一场毁灭全球的突发性大灾变直接抹去了建造这些巨石的母文明。 ### [01:47:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6422s) 神话的启示：阿兹特克与印加对“众神居所”的再定居 对话延伸到古代文明对待这些巨石遗迹的真实口述态度。罗根提到，许多人误以为阿兹特克人建造了特奥蒂瓦坎的巨大金字塔，但阿兹特克人自己其实从未声称那是他们的杰作；相反，阿兹特克人口耳相传的是，当他们到达那里时，那些宏伟的建筑就已经矗立在那里了，他们将其尊为“众神的诞生地”。 阿尔贝里诺顺势指出马丘比丘也是完全相同的性质。在克丘亚语（Quechua）中，那处遗址的原名根本不是马丘比丘，而是意为“众神的居所”。古代先民面对这些超乎人类能力的巨石遗迹时，本能的反应必然是认为这是“神明”留下的痕迹。大灾变过后的原始幸存者来到这些无法解释的宏伟废墟中，将它们奉为圣地，在其上进行修补并重新定居。罗根总结道，如果不被主流考古学画地为牢的时间线所绑架，结合已被地质学界广泛认可的大灾变证据，去认真倾听古代神话与传说，才是还原数万年前史前文明真相的真正逻辑通路。 ### [01:48:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6505s) 秘鲁的未解之谜与帕拉卡斯文化的奇异特征 两人从古老宏伟的贵族建筑与历史领地争夺切入，随即转向秘鲁这片土地上令人匪夷所思的古老谜团。乔·罗根提到了纳斯卡线条（Nazca Lines），直言这到底是怎么一回事；蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺也感叹这是个巨大的谜题，秘鲁充满了超乎常理的怪诞现象。罗根接着指出，那些拥有上千年历史的古代纺织毯上，普遍描绘着长着三根手指、三个脚趾、巨大脑袋和大眼睛的人形生物。阿尔贝里诺顺着话题谈到了著名的帕拉卡斯文化（Paracas culture）及其标志性的拉长头骨。很多人在网络上看到那些庞大而拉长的头骨，第一反应往往会认为这些人一定身材高大、体型魁梧。然而，阿尔贝里诺曾多次深入帕拉卡斯实地调研，动用无人机和探地雷达（GPR）展开勘测，他揭示了一个颠覆大众认知的真相：这些长头人非但不是巨人，反而是身材极其矮小的“小人”，其身体骨骼形态与现代人类有着显著差异。 阿尔贝里诺详细描述道，帕拉卡斯人不仅体型微小，而且偏好居住在地下隧道和半地下居所中。更为惊人的是，部分拉长头骨的眼眶（orbital sockets）尺寸比普通人足足大了约25%。罗根由此联想到关于尼安德特人的眼部理论——有假说认为尼安德特人拥有更大的眼眶，或许就像鹿、猫或其他夜行动物一样具备夜视能力，能够利用微弱光线在黑暗中视物。尽管学界通常不认为灵长类动物具有显著的夜视能力，且无法确定古人类眼睛软组织的具体构造，但更大的眼球自然能够汇聚更多光线，这在生物学上确实是典型的夜行性特征。 - **三指与三趾图案**：秘鲁出土的大量千年古毯上，反反复复出现长着三指、三趾与硕大眼睛的奇异人形。 - **帕拉卡斯体型真相**：虽然头骨硕大奇特，但帕拉卡斯人身材娇小，平均身高仅在 4 英尺到 4.5 英尺（约 1.2 至 1.4 米）左右，最多不超过 5 英尺。 - **眼眶尺寸变异**：部分头骨的眼眶骨骼比正常人类大出 25%，暗示其生前可能拥有极大的眼球和适应黑暗的夜行视觉。 --- ### [01:50:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6657s) 人工颅骨变形还是基因变异？带皮肉的奇异木乃伊 针对怀疑论者的观点，阿尔贝里诺坦诚承认，秘鲁以及世界各地发现的许多长头骨，确实属于人工颅骨变形（cranial deformation）的产物——古代人通过夹板（headboarding）和布条紧紧捆绑婴儿幼童的头部来改变头型，只要对骨骼结构有所了解，在现场就能清晰辨认出捆绑造成的痕迹。然而，他坚信人工绑头绝不能解释所有的拉长头骨，尤其是在秘鲁。某些标本展现出的构造完全像是某种“基因变异”（genetic alteration）。比如部分头骨竟然完全缺失人类典型的矢状缝（sagittal suture），其内部脑容量远超人类极限，骨骼发育结构也完全不同。 阿尔贝里诺让导播杰米（Jamie Vernon）在屏幕上调出藏于利马圣马科斯大学博物馆（Museum of San Marcos）的一具特殊木乃伊。这具木乃伊是秘鲁最著名、被誉为“秘鲁考古学之父”的胡利奥·C·特略（Julio C. Tello）当年发掘帕拉卡斯文化时出土的首批遗骸之一。阿尔贝里诺称这是他生平见过最诡异的木乃伊：与普通只剩白骨的头骨不同，这具木乃伊的面部虽有破损，但整个庞大拉长的头部至今仍完整覆盖着干燥的皮肤。屏幕上显示出研究员布莱恩·福斯特（Brien Foerster）正在观察该木乃伊的画面，其额头高耸得不可思议，后脑勺连接颈部的曲线更是极其扭曲奇特。罗根打趣说，要是走在奥斯汀街头碰到长着这种脑袋的人，绝对会让人吓得不轻，并感叹“那看起来根本不像颅骨变形，而是一种完全不同的人类头型”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 帕拉卡斯拉长头骨的形态成因对比 accDescr: 对比人工颅骨变形与疑似基因异常两种假说在生理特征与表现上的不同之处。 subgraph Artificial ["人工颅骨变形 (Cranial Deformation)"] A["婴儿期木板夹头与布条捆扎"] --> B["颅骨顺应外力向后向上塑形"] B --> C["保留人类正常矢状缝与脑容量上限"] end subgraph GeneticAnomaly ["疑似基因变异 / 异常形态"] D["先天或遗传性骨骼异常"] --> E["极高额头与巨大脑容量"] E --> F["缺少矢状缝 / 眼眶增大 25%"] E --> G["后颈骨骼与肌肉附着结构严重弯曲"] end ``` --- ### [01:54:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=6867s) 琼戈斯大墓地、红发干尸与金字塔下百英尺神秘地道 随着杰米在屏幕上翻找伊卡博物馆（Museo Regional de Ica）收藏的“琼戈斯头骨”（Chongos skull），两人对那惊人的脑容量惊叹不已。阿尔贝里诺回忆起自己团队前往琼戈斯大墓地（Chongos Necropolis）实地考察的震撼经历。那片位于沙漠深处的遗址极其荒僻，人迹罕至，风沙侵蚀的地表上甚至直接露出一具具古代干尸的残骸，头上依然顶着被沙漠风化的红褐色头发。当时阿尔贝里诺的团队正沿着道路更深处拍摄一部寻找宝藏的电视纪录片，附近的一处水塘还流传着十分诡异的幽浮（UFO）目击传说。 每天往返路途中，他们都会途经琼戈斯金字塔。这是一座由巨大泥砖（Adobe blocks）砌筑而成的巨型建筑，虽然在视觉上不如石造金字塔宏伟，但它曾是帕拉卡斯文化的核心城市中心兼大型墓地。贵族们被以蜷缩的胚胎姿势裹在层层叠叠的布包裹（burial bundles）中，浅埋在沙层之下，引得大量盗墓贼（huaqueros）前来洗劫文物。每次开车经过，阿尔贝里诺心中都涌起一股强烈的直觉：“那座金字塔下面绝对有地道系统”。 为了验证直觉，团队找了一天带着搭载探地雷达（GPR）的特制无人机前往该金字塔。他们操纵无人机以精准的十字交叉航线（cross configuration）对金字塔周边及地表展开全方位扫描，以确保雷达信号覆盖完整。扫描结果证实了他的直觉：在琼戈斯金字塔正下方深达 100 英尺（约 30 米）的地底，赫然埋藏着两条规模庞大、呈交叉分布的人工建造地下隧道。 - **琼戈斯沙漠墓葬**：由于地表干旱与沙层移动，大量数千年前的帕拉卡斯遗骸与标志性的红发直接裸露在沙漠地表。 - **胚胎式裹尸包**：帕拉卡斯贵族死后被捆绑成胎儿蜷缩姿态，裹以多层精美织物，浅埋于沙地中，常年沦为当地盗墓贼（huaqueros）的目标。 - **探地雷达重大发现**：团队使用 GPR 勘测无人机进行交叉航线扫描，成功穿透沙土层，探测到金字塔地下 100 英尺处存在两条巨大的人工开凿交叉隧道。 ### [01:57:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=7038s) 帕拉卡斯的地下居所与拉长头骨之谜 在秘鲁帕拉卡斯国家保护区（Paracas National Reserve）的地下，存在着规模庞大、甚至能容纳半挂卡车开过去的神秘洞穴网络。蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）回忆，他们曾花时间寻找深入其中的通道，但因时间耗尽未果。秘鲁考古学之父胡里奥·C·特略（Julio C. Tello）在关于帕拉卡斯文化的著作中曾明确指出，帕拉卡斯人似乎天生对地下生活情有独钟，建造了大量半地穴或全地下的居所。阿尔贝里诺曾亲自探索过这些遗址，从地表看去，它们就像被掩埋的长条形土丘，实际上这些穹顶是用巨大的鲸鱼脊椎骨架设作为梁柱，外层夯上厚土并掺入各类有机物，利用生物发酵与封闭隔热效应在寒冷的沙漠夜间维持内部温度。这些奇特的地穴居所与复杂的地下隧道相连，正是那群拥有极其怪异的“拉长头骨”（elongated skulls）古人类生活的地方。 针对帕拉卡斯木乃伊的年代，阿尔贝里诺推断该文化大致繁荣于公元前数百年至公元一世纪前后。当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）追问这群特征诡异的人后来究竟去了哪里时，阿尔贝里诺解释道，学界目前的主流假说认为他们并没有凭空消失，而是向内陆迁移演变为了后来的纳斯卡人（Nazca culture），二者之间存在文化承袭与血统融合；但在纳斯卡人遗骸中，这种极致的头骨特征出现的频率已经显著减少。另一种观点则认为帕拉卡斯人遭遇了灭绝或神秘消亡。与以往讨论巨人时仅停留在神话传说不同，帕拉卡斯的拉长头骨留下了大量无可辩驳的实物证据。虽然学术界普遍将其归咎于人工颅骨变形，但现场展示的某些头骨膨大得如同吹起的气球，甚至呈现出巨大的“心形”，完全颠覆了常人的解剖学生理认知。 - 帕拉卡斯地下建筑结构：以巨型鲸鱼肋骨与脊椎为横梁支架，表面覆盖泥土与有机保温隔热层。 - 历史去向假说：一部分学者认为帕拉卡斯人演变成了创造地画的纳斯卡文明，另一部分观点认为他们被外族灭绝或自然消亡。 - 物理遗存的真实性：与口头传闻的巨人不同，博物馆与遗址中保存着成百上千具具有异常颅骨解剖结构的实物标本。 --- ### [02:00:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=7254s) 全球缠头习俗与“双叶状”异常脑容量 人类历史上多大范围存在缠头风俗？阿尔贝里诺和罗根探讨了这一现象背后的动机：从非洲大陆各部族，到蒙大拿州的平头印第安人（Flathead tribe）使用摇篮板挤压幼童头部，再到古埃及第十八王朝的纳芙蒂蒂（Nefertiti）王后及其女儿们被壁画塑像描绘成长颅形象，人工颅骨挤压几乎遍布全球。两人探讨的核心疑问在于：“如果这纯粹是后天改造，各个独立的古代文明究竟是在模仿谁？”罗根指出一个更致命的解剖学疑点：普通的机械绑头只能改变头骨的几何形状，却不可能改变其内部容积；然而在秘鲁发现的部分头骨中，其脑腔容积竟然比正常现代人足足大了 20%、30% 甚至 40%，这意味着其脑组织容量远超普通人，这根本无法单用摇篮板绑头来解释。 在现场查阅学术资料后，他们解开了屏幕上形态奇特头骨的分类命名谜题。文献记载，这类颅骨变形主要分为两类：一类是男女皆最常见的“直立管状”（tubular erect）；另一类则是前排左侧那具极度夸张的心形头骨，被称为“双叶状”（bilobate）。研究发现，双叶状头骨在女性遗骸中出现的比例极高。这一性别特征在帕拉卡斯出土的陶器上得到了印证——陶绘中的男性通常被描绘为直立圆筒状头颅，而女性则显现出中央凹陷、向两侧膨出如双叶或心形的异常颅型。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 帕拉卡斯异常头骨分类与特征 accDescr: 展示直立管状与双叶状头骨的形态差异、性别关联以及超出人工绑头解释的脑容量异常。 subgraph Types["颅骨形态分类"] A["直立管状 (Tubular Erect)"] --> A1["男女普遍存在<br/>多见于陶器中的男性形象"] B["双叶状 / 心形 (Bilobate)"] --> B1["女性中出现率极高<br/>头部顶部凹陷向两侧膨胀"] end subgraph Mystery["解剖学矛盾"] C["传统绑头变形假说"] -.->|无法解释| D["颅腔容积暴增 20% - 40%"] E["全球普遍模仿现象"] -->|源头未解| F["究竟在崇拜/模仿何种生物？"] end ``` --- ### [02:02:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=7355s) 秘鲁“外星木乃伊”调查：从震惊到反转 话题随后转向近年来轰动全球的秘鲁“三指外星木乃伊”。罗根询问阿尔贝里诺对此类标本真伪的看法，因为外界越来越多的声音指责这是一场精心设计的跨国骗局。阿尔贝里诺透露，他曾受伊卡圣路易斯贡萨加国立大学（Universidad Nacional San Luis Gonzaga de Ica）罗赫尔·苏尼加教授（Professor Roger Zúñiga）的正式邀请，亲自飞往秘鲁伊卡博物馆实地检验这批标本。当时展出的包括四具标本：最著名、体型最大的成年呈蜷缩胚胎状的木乃伊“玛丽亚”（Maria）；墨西哥记者海梅·莫桑（Jaime Maussan）在国会听证会上展示的小型三指干尸；以及被称为“瓦维塔”（Huawita/Wawita）的幼年合成标本，还有一具名为“蒙塞拉特”（Montserrat）的标本。 阿尔贝里诺坦言，自己从未相信过那些身材矮小、外观僵硬干瘪的小型标本，因为它们的骨骼形态学在现实生物力学中根本无法成立；但在肉眼亲眼端详“玛丽亚”等大型标本时，其视觉冲击力和解剖细节确实非常惊人。苏尼加教授本人极其真诚，坚信这些标本百分之百是货真价实的未知生物遗骸，校方团队也是在善意且开放的前提下持续开展检测。然而阿尔贝里诺指出，核心问题在于后续的数据解读极不专业——虽然团队进行了基因测序等一系列科学实验，但对数据的分析能力欠缺说服力。 阿尔贝里诺坦承，自己最初曾受震撼，甚至在做客《迈克尔·诺尔斯秀》（The Michael Knowles Show）时公开表示“玛丽亚”大概率是真实生物。但经过进一步深入研究，他彻底推翻并反转了自己的立场，现在坚信整套事件极大概率是一场复杂的造假骗局。究其根源，整个风波最早是由秘鲁当地臭名昭著的盗墓贼（huaqueros）挑起的，最初流向市场和媒体的第一批标本已被实锤为由古代人类残骸拼接合成的伪造物。虽然支持者声称后续找到了“真品”，但在如此恶劣且充斥利益伪造的前提下，阿尔贝里诺与多位参与过闭门科研的保密学者沟通后，最终认定了其伪造骗局的本质。 - 调查现场核心标本： - “玛丽亚”（Maria）：体型最大、呈蜷缩姿态的三指木乃伊，曾最具迷惑性。 - 小型标本：海梅·莫桑在墨西哥听证会展示的微型干尸，骨骼僵直、解剖学上缺乏生理合理性。 - “瓦维塔”（Wawita）与“蒙塞拉特”（Montserrat）：涉及不同骨骼特征拼凑的可疑标本。 - 鉴定反转过程：阿尔贝里诺最初倾向于相信大型标本为真，随后因源头盗墓贼造假前科、缺乏严谨科学同行评议，转变为彻底怀疑。 ### [02:05:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=7558s) 秘鲁纳斯卡“三指木乃伊”与造假争议 谈话从对秘鲁纳斯卡（Nazca）三指木乃伊的审视展开。提摩西·阿尔伯里诺（Timothy Alberino）指出，科学界与许多机构对此多采取中立避嫌的态度，不愿被媒体大肆炒作，且普遍怀疑这些遗骸是非常精巧的伪造品。在这类物品背后，早已有巨额资金流转，其中被称为“玛丽亚”（Maria）的木乃伊一度被开价高达 100 万美元兜售。在阿尔伯里诺看来，对于底层的盗墓者（huaqueros）来说，100 万美元堪比 10 亿美元的横财，如此强烈的金钱驱动让整个事件蒙上了极大的阴影。即便不从 DNA 数据的争议下定论，人体解剖学专家的分析也指出了致命破绽：手脚骨骼的排列、尺寸与正常生物力学完全不符，根本无法构成合理运作的肢体结构。 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）调侃道，如果这真是一场骗局，那伪造者的手艺简直叹为观止，堪称“考古学史上最伟大的骗局”。制作人杰米（Young Jamie）在电脑上调出资料网站 tridactyls.org，上面展示了最新的 3D CT 扫描模型与研究报告，甚至有人幽默地指出“玛丽亚”可能其实是个男性，应该改叫“马里奥”（Mario）。面对屏幕上那些手指与脚趾极长的 3D 渲染图，罗根直呼诡异。杰米补充说，有人做过模拟测试，这些细长且缺乏正常关节弯曲功能的骨骼在物理上根本无法抓握任何东西。罗根则半开玩笑地提出另一种科幻视角的假设：也许高等文明驾驶飞船根本不需要抓握物体，他们或许用思想移动巨石，手部形态不能按人类常理来推断。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 纳斯卡木乃伊真伪争议核心逻辑 accDescr: 展示学术界造假指控与支持者反驳观点的对比 subgraph 怀疑与造假观点 A["高额经济诱惑<br/>（叫价曾高达 100 万美元）"] B["盗墓者拼接古骨<br/>（人骨与羊驼骨等混合）"] C["解剖学异常<br/>（骨骼错位、手指无弯曲抓握功能）"] end subgraph 支持与奇异现象 D["外覆皮肤与完整包裹物<br/>（制作极度精细）"] E["异物与植入物<br/>（前额、手部金属物及腹部胚胎）"] F["非典型骨骼形态<br/>（脊椎连接点位置与常人不同）"] end A --> B B --> C D --> E E --> F ``` - 争议木乃伊“玛丽亚”（Maria）在地下黑市的开价曾达 100 万美元，极大诱发了造假动机。 - 解剖学者指出其指骨缺乏可弯曲的生理关节，无法执行抓握等日常生物力学动作。 - 网站 tridactyls.org 汇总了大量 3D CT 扫描与放射成像切片，供正反两方研究者审视。 - 部分标本的前额与手掌中发现了金属植入物，甚至有报告称在体内扫描到了形态与成体一致的“胚胎”。 --- ### [02:09:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=7780s) 盗墓产业链、拼接疑云与畸变头骨 阿尔伯里诺坦言自己倾向于认为这是骗局。他熟识最初涉入此事的圈内人员，清楚整件事发端于秘鲁当地极其底层且声名狼藉的盗墓贼。面对罗根关于“如何做出逼真皮肤与千年以上古老材质”的疑问，阿尔伯里诺解释，指控方认为制作者直接从纳斯卡古墓中盗掘古代人体骨骼，甚至是古代羊驼（llama）等动物的残骸，再进行拼贴组合与翻新包裹。对于一个生活赤贫的盗墓贼而言，只要能卖出哪怕十万美元，他们就愿意投入数月乃至数年的时间去精心雕琢这样一件“杰作”。 但不可否认的是，秘鲁出土的头骨在物理结构上确实存在诸多难以解释的谜团。阿尔伯里诺提到，不仅是拉长头骨的眼眶（orbital sockets）明显大于常人，其脊椎骨与颅骨底部的连接位置（枕骨大孔等区域）也与现代人类存在形态差异。阿尔伯里诺感叹，暂且抛开各种互相掐架的学术报告不谈，“如果这样一具活生生的生物现在推门走进来，那绝对不是有点怪异，而是会彻底吓疯屋里的每一个人”。罗根也认同这种视觉与生理上的巨大冲击，并追问在那个久远的时代（如公元前 2500 年至公元 700 年左右的帕拉卡斯文明），是否真的存在一个完全独立的人类物种分支。 - 造假指控认为造假者利用了古代纳斯卡墓葬出土的真实古人骨与动物骨骼，因此能通过碳-14 测年检测。 - 帕拉卡斯（Paracas）及周边文化的拉长头骨不仅体积极大、眼眶宽大，其颈椎与头骨的连接点解剖学位置亦存在异象。 - 秘鲁沿海文明的跨度极为悠久，部分奇特文化遗存可追溯至公元前 2500 年左右并延续至公元数百年的后半期。 --- ### [02:12:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=7941s) 《苏美尔王表》、大洪水与《以诺书》之谜 两人的探讨从南美古迹自然延伸到了整个古代世界的神秘神话体系。罗根提到了古埃及的“初次之时”（Zep Tepi）以及《苏美尔王表》（Sumerian King List），在这些古老文献中，大洪水之前的早期君主在位统治时间往往长达数万年乃至数十万年。针对这种超长寿命的现象，阿尔伯里诺指出，若将《苏美尔王表》与《圣经·创世记》第 5 章中记载的“大洪水前先祖族谱”（从亚当到诺亚的诸位族长）进行并置比对，会发现两者在传承结构上几乎呈现出一对一的重合。 阿尔伯里诺认为，《苏美尔王表》中所记载的数万年统治时长带有浓厚的神话夸张色彩，他不相信那些君王真的能活几万年。当前网络上与播客界主流的论调往往将苏美尔史诗视为世界上最古老的大洪水与史前文明母本，但他持完全不同的独到观点：他坚信最原初的文本记忆实际上保存在《以诺书》（Book of Enoch）的传承之中。阿尔伯里诺强调，《创世记》的作者乃至《新约》的著作者们都深受以诺故事（Enochian tale）的影响并对此深信不疑。《以诺书》中关于史前大洪水、堕落看守者与巨人的惊人记载，极有可能是对大洪水前世界（antediluvian world）真实灾变历史的直接记录。无论是苏美尔、古埃及、希伯来、古希腊还是古罗马，全人类古代文明对那场“一夜之间毁灭辉煌史前文明”的大灾难都有着惊人相似的记忆细节；但阿尔伯里诺也提醒，即便当时存在高度发达的伟大文明，也并不意味着他们拥有的技术形态必须与现代人类的科技一模一样。 - 《苏美尔王表》中的史前君王序列与《创世记》第 5 章从亚当到诺亚的洪水前十位先祖名单具有高度的文献平行对应关系。 - 阿尔伯里诺反驳了“苏美尔史诗是人类一切洪水源头”的主流假设，主张《以诺书》代表了更古老且具核心历史写实性的史前记载。 - 世界各大古老文明（苏美尔、埃及、希伯来、希腊、罗马）在关于史前文明毁于突发全球大洪水的细节上保持着高度共识。 ### [02:15:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=8111s) 史前世界、大灾变与跨文明神话共性 很多人一提到大洪水前的史前世界（Antediluvian world）和失落文明，脑海中浮现的往往是摩天大楼、汽车和飞机这类现代工业景观，但这未必是古老文明的形态。在世界各地的创世神话与远古史诗中，存在着大量惊人一致的平行线：全球性的大灾变、巨人族的存在、兄弟相残的远古灭亡之战（例如古印度的《吠陀》文献及史诗）。更为普遍的核心元素是：天神降临人间，与人类女子交配结合，诞生了半神或巨人族，并由他们统治大地。依据不同文本的版本，这些存在的形象或善或恶，但最终都引向了摧毁一切的世界级大灾变。 随着新仙女木期彗星撞击假说（Younger Dryas impact hypothesis）等科学证据不断浮现，史前存在大灾变已是板上钉钉的事实。那么，这些神话核心叙事中的其他部分是否也是真实的？史前世界真的有天外来客降临并与人类结合繁衍吗？Timothy Alberino 认为，《以诺书》（The Book of Enoch）中最古老的部分——《守望者之书》（The Book of the Watchers），正是对前洪水时代最古老且详实的记录。即便不局限于流传至今的文本手稿，以诺这一人物的传统也极其古老。以诺是亚当之后的第七代子孙，在《苏美尔王表》中也能找到与其对应的先祖人物（如恩门杜兰纳 Enmeduranki）。这种跨文明的先祖对应与史前灾难遗存，暗示了这些文本并非纯粹的凭空虚构。 ### [02:17:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=8263s) 《以诺书》中的守望者与赫尔蒙山盟誓 根据《以诺一书》记载，史前事件的起点是 200 名被称为“守望者”（Watchers）的天界生命降临。这类存在并非仅见于伪经，在《圣经·但以理书》中同样记载了神圣守望者审判巴比伦傲慢君王尼布甲尼撒的场景，守望者夺去他的心智，使他沦为如野兽般长发丛生、在野地吃草的疯癫之人。然而在《以诺书》中，守望者的描绘更为具象：他们是拥有高维智慧的非人天体存在（完全可以称之为地外智慧生命/外星人），他们贪恋人间女子的美貌，并产生了繁衍家族的欲望。 面对 Joe Rogan 提出的疑问——这是否只是一种通过口口相传、类似于传话游戏（Game of telephone）而被严重扭曲的“古代基因工程”神话化表达？Alberino 坦言其中很可能包含基因改造技术，因为人类在生理结构上与地球其他物种差异极大。但《圣经·创世记》第六章以及《以诺书》均对此做出了更露骨的交待：《创世记》第 6 章记载“神的儿子们”见人的女子美貌，便娶来为妻，生下上古英武有名的 Nephilim（伟人/拿非利人）。而《以诺书》则记载这 200 名守望者降落在赫尔蒙山（Mount Hermon）山顶，因深知自己所为是极严重的重罪叛乱，便立下互相诅咒的血誓，赫尔蒙山也因此自古被称为“誓言之山”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 守望者降临与巨人生殖链条 accDescr: 描述守望者降临赫尔蒙山、传授科技换取人类女子、杂交诞生巨人以及最终自相残杀的逻辑链条 subgraph Descent ["守望者降临人间"] A["200 名天界守望者<br/>（非人地外存在）"] --> B["降临赫尔蒙山峰<br/>立下血誓结盟"] end subgraph Exchange ["知识与婚姻交易"] B --> C["向人类父辈传授<br/>禁忌知识与技术"] C --> D["迎娶人间女子为妻<br/>（基因交配结合）"] end subgraph Conflict ["混血异化与冲突"] D --> E["诞生混血种族：巨人 Nephilim<br/>（类狮虎兽杂交放大效应）"] E --> F["残暴食人与掠夺资源<br/>导致全地惨遭涂炭"] F --> G["天界干预：挑起兄弟残杀之战<br/>（高科技帝国争霸内战）"] end ``` - 守望者向人类部族索取少女为妻并非简单的掠夺，文本中暗示了一场交易：守望者传授了人类当时极度渴望掌握的深奥知识，进而带来了突飞猛进的技术，以此换取女子的婚配权。 - 人类女子受孕后生下了体型庞大的巨人种族。Joe Rogan 将其类比为雄狮与雌虎杂交生出的“狮虎兽”（Liger），因基因互补调控缺失而表现出巨大的身躯（且往往无法正常繁育）。 - 诞生的巨人们性情凶残，不仅消耗光了地上的粮食资源，随后更演化出食人习性，开始疯狂吞吃人类，导致世间充斥着血腥与暴行。 ### [02:22:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=8529s) 拿非利人的自残之战与前洪水时代的高科技帝国 关于守望者与巨人的叙事，绝非仅存在于《创世记》或《以诺书》的只言片语中，在昆兰洞穴出土的《死海古卷》中发现了完整的佐证文本，如《巨人书》（Book of Giants）、《禧年书》（Book of Jubilees）以及《创世记伪经》（Genesis Apocryphon）。这套体系是古代希伯来宇宙观的绝对基石，在古希伯来人的历史观中，这并非寓言，而是史前世界真真切切发生过的血泪历史。当人类在巨人的残暴统治下向天哭诉、哀告求援时，神派遣天使介入，首要策略便是挑拨巨人们彼此仇视，爆发了一场席卷全球的骨肉相残内战（Fratricidal war）。 Alberino 强调，不能用刻板印象去想象一群愚笨的原始巨人拿着木棒互敲脑袋，这场史前大战实际上是一场高度发达的“技术战”（Technological war）。守望者实际上是在史前世界划分领地、建立诸神帝国，他们的半神后代则充当各大帝国的君王与统治者。在《圣经》的历史叙事中，天使从来没有传统宗教绘画中象征性的羽毛翅膀（翅膀仅出现在象征性的先知异象中），他们出行所搭乘的是被称为“耶和华的战车”、“烈火战车”的先进空天飞行器。守望者当初降临地球便借助了这类载具，因此他们的后代拥有高度科技知识，其王权争夺必然演化为毁天灭地的科技战争。这一历史模板如果对照柏拉图笔下的亚特兰蒂斯（Atlantis）神话，诸神瓜分领地、半神血脉统治并走向科技堕落与内部战争的轨迹，两者几乎是一模一样的重叠叙事。 ### [02:25:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=8716s) 亚特兰蒂斯神话与《以诺书》叙事的惊人契合 Timothy Alberino 梳理了亚特兰蒂斯传说的源流。这个故事最早见于柏拉图的对话录《蒂迈欧篇》（*Timaeus*）和《克里提亚篇》（*Critias*）。雅典政治家梭伦（Solon）前往埃及塞易斯城（Sais），当地祭司指出希腊人缺乏古老的历史记忆，并向他讲述了亚特兰蒂斯的始末：古代雅典人的祖先曾是一群非凡的勇士，唯有他们成功抵御了极具侵略性的亚特兰蒂斯人。 柏拉图笔下的故事开篇即是诸神瓜分地球。他们划分势力范围，建立起 Alberino 所称的“众神帝国”（Empire of the Gods）。海神波塞冬（Poseidon）分得亚特兰蒂斯，随后迷恋上凡间女子克利托（Cleito，速记误作 Plato）并与她结合，诞下十个半神杂交的儿子，成为亚特兰蒂斯的十位统治者，其中长子阿特拉斯（Atlas）为最高领袖。神话中有充分理由表明这些统治者具备巨人的特征。类似地，其他神明也在世界各地迎娶凡间女子繁衍后代，形成了希腊神话中普遍的半神谱系。随后，好战的亚特兰蒂斯帝国发起对外征服，一路所向披靡，直到遭遇雅典人陷入恶战。就在冲突白热化之际，毁灭性的大灾难骤然降临，亚特兰蒂斯同其他地区一同被巨浪吞没。 埃及祭司向梭伦强调的核心观点在于：人类历史上曾多次遭遇灭世浩劫，每一次灾难过后，文明都被打回原形，像孩子一样从头再来。Alberino 认为亚特兰蒂斯实际上是大洪水前世界（Antediluvian world）的缩影寓言，《以诺书》与圣经记录了大洪水前世界的真实历史，“众神帝国”并非虚构，二者叙事惊人一致。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 柏拉图亚特兰蒂斯神话与大洪水叙事映射 accDescr: 展现诸神划分地盘、生下杂交后代、征战到突发大灾难的逻辑链条 subgraph Origin["众神分地与杂交后代"] A["诸神瓜分地球<br/>建立众神帝国"] --> B["波塞冬迎娶凡人克利托"] B --> C["诞生十位半人半神后代<br/>（巨人血脉/阿特拉斯为首）"] end subgraph Conflict["征服扩张与灾变"] C --> D["好战扩张，席卷各地"] D --> E["与古代雅典陷入决战"] E --> F["灭世大灾难突发<br/>文明被洪水吞没归零"] end ``` --- ### [02:28:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=8924s) 《以诺书》的留存与约柜的神秘辐射 Joe Rogan 提问，既然《以诺书》与圣经紧密相关且在正典中有被引用，为何最终被排除在正典之外，是否只是源于早期拉比的决定。Alberino 解释情况要复杂得多：《以诺书》实际上是一部成书跨度从公元前4世纪一直延续到公元1世纪的文献合集，但以诺的口述传统极为古老，很可能是人类一切传说故事的母体与源头。 今天世人之所以能读到完整的《以诺书》，完全归功于埃塞俄比亚的保存——当地古老的贝塔以色列犹太人（Beta Israel）和埃塞俄比亚正统台瓦西多教会（Tewahedo Orthodox Christians）将其完好保留在正统经卷之中。 这引发了 Rogan 对约柜（Ark of the Covenant）去向的追问。Alberino 认为格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）在其著作《符号与印记》（*The Sign and the Seal*）中给出了极具说服力的论证。Rogan 指出书中提到守护约柜的修士往往在几年内就会患上白内障，寿命极短，显示出明显的放射性损伤特征。Alberino 对此表示赞同，指出许多研究者都认为约柜内部很可能蕴含着某种超越时代的放射性科技装置。 - 《以诺书》文本成书于公元前4世纪至公元1世纪之间，但其背后的传说传统是人类最古老的叙事源头。 - 完整文本唯一幸存的来源是埃塞俄比亚传统，该地的犹太社群与正统教会皆将其列为圣经正典。 - 汉考克的调查显示，守护埃塞俄比亚约柜的修士上任后极少能活过几年，且普遍罹患严重白内障，极度疑似高能辐射所致。 --- ### [02:30:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9021s) 先进科技属于“封闭兄弟会”而非全民普及 对于大洪水前世界是否存在先进科技，Alberino 提出了一种不同于常规空想的视角。如果《以诺书》中守望者堕落凡间是真实的历史事件而非隐喻，他们乘坐类似飞碟的高级载具降临并带来了先进知识，这套技术也不会在大众中全面普及。 统治阶级与神血家族的动机是为了奴役和统治凡人，必然会将技术严密锁闭在核心血脉之内。因此，古代遗落文明可能并非一个全面高度发达的技术社会，而是一个由极少数“科技精英兄弟会”（Technologically advanced fraternity）掌控高级科技、普通大众仍处于青铜时代或铁器时代的严重分层社会。Rogan 对此表示认同，并补充说当今世界同样如此——现代社会既有航天科技，同时也存在过着几万年前原始生活且未被接触的隔绝部落，文明的发展水平在任何时代都不是均匀分布的。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 史前技术分层架构模式 accDescr: 对比科技精英统治阶层与底层大众的技术断层 subgraph Elite["核心统治精英（神血兄弟会）"] A["守望者及其血脉家族"] --> B["独占地外/高等先进技术"] B --> C["用于全面掌控与统治凡人"] end subgraph Masses["普通平民大众"] D["青铜/铁器时代生产力"] E["原始未接触部落状态"] end C -.->|"严格封锁技术"| Masses ``` --- ### [02:32:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9128s) 人类的退化历程与失落的心灵感应能力 Alberino 进一步反思了人类物种在漫长历史中的演变轨迹。他并不赞同单向进化的观点，反而认为人类正在经历“退化”（Devolution/Degeneration）。在他看来，大洪水前的先祖在生理机能、身体强壮程度以及智力维度上都远远胜过现代人类。 圣经记载大洪水前的人类寿命动辄接近千年，现代人在先祖眼中恐怕算不上健全的同类。从圣经创世视角来看，亚当受造肩负两大核心目的：治理大地，以及与造物主亲密交通（Fellowship with the maker）。能够直接与神明及未知存在沟通交流的生命体，其生物解剖构造中必然内置了极强的超感官潜能，例如遥视（Remote viewing）和心灵感应（Telepathy）。 Rogan 联想到秘鲁发现的奇异长头骨，猜测也许过去的人类曾拥有完全不同的脑部结构。Alberino 强调，人类如今依赖缓慢而笨拙的口语词汇进行交流，经常辞不达意；而如果拥有心灵感应，交流将以“思想的速度”瞬间完成，信息的传递密度、深度与精准度都将带来质的飞跃。这种被现代人遗忘的潜能，或许正是大洪水前人类先祖天然具备的生物本能。 ### [02:34:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9293s) 突变负荷与人类退化：技术飙升与生物滑坡的剪刀差 两人的对话从前沿通信技术的终极形态切入。乔·罗根提到，如果人类文明持续演化并开发出更先进的科技，沟通方式将迎来颠覆性的跨越——正如埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）曾预言的那样，人类未来或许将实现“无需语言即可直接交流”的意念直连。然而，蒂莫西·阿尔贝里诺（Timothy Alberino）对此展现出了截然不同的冷峻视角：科技固然在突飞猛进，但人类作为物种本身却在不可逆转地“变笨”，生物机能亦在全面衰退。面对罗根关于环境毒素与身体受害的补充，阿尔贝里诺强调这绝不仅是后天毒害的结果，而是源于更深层次、根本无法单靠健康饮食扭转的基因层面的退化。 阿尔贝里诺详细阐述了生物学上的“突变负荷”（mutational load）概念。在人类乃至所有物种的基因组中，代代相传的有害突变（deleterious mutations）在不断累积并演化成沉重的遗传包袱。随着繁殖链条的不断延伸，携带的有害突变愈演愈烈，直接导致人类随着时间推移变得越来越平庸软弱。阿尔贝里诺悲观地指出，这种趋势完全不可逆，“你不可能仅凭健康的饮食就重新赢回那些早已遗失的生理天赋”，其结果便是人类正在走向技术飞升与肉体沉沦的残酷剪刀差——人类将被迫通过技术手段将自身改造成“非人”的存在，脱离最初的亚当形态，跨入一个后人类未来。尽管阿尔贝里诺明确表态自己绝非超人类主义（Transhumanism）的支持者，但他不得不承认这一演化宿命正在逼近。 - **突变负荷的不可逆性**：基因组中有害突变的世代叠加构成了物种遗传衰退的硬伤，无法通过后天生活方式调整进行逆转。 - **演化剪刀差**：外部工具与科技力量呈指数级上升，而人类机体的内在智力与生理素质却在持续下滑。 --- ### [02:36:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9392s) 走向后人类末日：生育力崩溃、人造子宫与尤瓦尔·赫拉利的预言 阿尔贝里诺进一步列举了令人触目惊心的现实数据。他指出，除了广泛展现的智力滑坡之外，人类正在走向实质性的“生殖机能丧失”。尤其是西方男性的精子计数与身体素质呈现断崖式下跌，有严谨的研究预测指出，到大约 2045 年前后，人类可能在自然状态下失去基本的繁殖自持能力。与此形成耐人寻味对照的是，人类社会恰好在此节点上全力研发“人造子宫”（artificial wombs）等体外繁育介入技术。这种生物退化与技术替代的诡异同步，在阿尔贝里诺看来正是通向“后人类末日”（posthuman apocalypse）的鲜明征兆。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 生物退化与技术替代的并行演化图 accDescr: 展示人类自然机能衰退与技术介入同步推进，最终导向后人类状态的逻辑关系。 subgraph BIO["生物层面退化"] A["突变负荷代际累积"] --> B["精子质量与自然生育力暴跌"] B --> C["2045年预计出现自然繁衍瓶颈"] end subgraph TECH["技术介入演进"] D["认知与生理外包"] --> E["人造子宫与体外生殖研发"] E --> F["基因工程与技术干预"] end subgraph OUTCOME["终极走向"] C & F --> G["后人类未来 / 物种形态更迭"] end ``` 这种对物种前景的灰暗预测并非阿尔贝里诺一人的独见。他援引了历史学家尤瓦尔·诺亚·赫拉利（Yuval Noah Harari）的著名论断：在大约 120 至 130 年之后，地球上可能将不复存在今天意义上的“智人”（Homo sapiens）。阿尔贝里诺借此重申，技术的代偿虽然维系了文明运作，但物种退化的现实却愈发冰冷——人类正一步步被剥离自然属性，在人工科技的襁褓中蜕变为另一种未知的存在形式。 - **生殖悬崖预测**：相关统计模型预测，至 2045 年人类男性的生育健康可能跌破自然繁殖底线，生殖活动将全面依赖人工干预。 - **赫拉利的物种更迭论**：传统自然人类或在稍长于一个世纪的时间跨度内从地球上彻底淡出历史舞台。 --- ### [02:38:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9489s) 亚当原型与潜能遗失：超感官能力的退化遗迹与节目尾声 为了阐明退化论的核心逻辑，阿尔贝里诺转而依托自己的圣经世界观框架进行追溯。他提出，如果回到万物伊始的原初状态，最初的始祖亚当作为人类的原型样本，其身心系统内蕴含着超乎想象的充沛潜能——他能够直接与造物主沟通无碍，拥有治理大地的高维智慧与非凡机能。然而，漫长的人类繁衍过程本质上是一场“复印件复制复印件、再复制复印件”的质量递减过程，原初亚当所具备的卓越能力在代际损耗中逐渐被剥蚀殆尽。 阿尔贝里诺推测，诸如遥视（remote viewing）、心灵感应（telepathy）等偶尔闪现于少数人身上的超心理学现象，极有可能并非前沿的超进化产物，反而是远古完美机能残留至今的“潜在退化遗迹”。谈及此处，阿尔贝里诺不禁失笑，感叹自己不知不觉将话题引申得如此深远；罗根则由衷赞许这段阐述极具启发性与逻辑张力，并对整场对话的深度表达了高度赞赏。 在节目的最后收尾环节，罗根邀请阿尔贝里诺向听众介绍获取其作品的渠道。阿尔贝里诺分享了自己的各大社交平台账号（Instagram、X 以及同名 YouTube 频道），并着重提及了自己的著作《Birthright》（长子继承权），以及他最新主笔导言与长篇评注的远古文献版《以诺书》（The Book of Enoch）。听到《以诺书》这一重磅话题，罗根顿时兴致高涨，当即表示这本身就是一段足以单开一整期节目的庞大宏旨，两人当场拍板定下未来重返演播室深度详聊《以诺书》的约定，在热络默契的气氛与标志性的片尾音乐中正式道别结语。 - **复制衰减效应**：人类世代传承被形象比喻为“复印件的逐代翻印”，每一代都在递减丢失原型的遗传精度与潜在潜能。 - **超自然感官假说**：心灵感应与遥视等未解现象被阐释为原初完备机能的隐性残留碎片。 - **核心发布作品**：著作《Birthright》与新版《以诺书》（The Book of Enoch）导读评注本。 ## Notable quotes > [01:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=86s) 在这个话题上一定要格外小心。 — 五角大楼知情人士 > [04:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=243s) 不准拍照，此后永远不准提起，此事从未发生 — 美军情报人员 > [12:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=727s) 你到底把自己卷进什么事情里去了？你到底在调查什么？你必须极其小心！ — 参议员幕僚长 > [15:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=943s) 如果远古时期真的存活过这样一个巨人种族，他们究竟为什么要竭尽全力向大众隐瞒？ — Joe Rogan > [27:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=1636s) 在什么节点上，传闻证据因为其无处不在而实质上变成了确凿证据？ — Timothy Alberino > [42:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=2544s) 管好你自己的该死闲事，把东西扔进教堂，然后闭上你的臭嘴！ — 萨尔达拉市长 > [50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3000s) 把这具尸骨彻底砸碎，搅拌到盖房子的地基泥土和混凝土里去。 — 天主教神父 > [01:06:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=3980s) 那种已经绝迹的巨人物种，它们的眼眸曾凝视过尼亚加拉，一如我们此刻所见；而如今，它们的骨骸正充填着美洲的那些土丘。 — 亚伯拉罕·林肯 > [01:10:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4219s) 史密森尼学会里总该有个受够了这一切的深喉爆料人吧？带上你的智能手机，悄悄溜进地下仓库去拍点真家伙出来！ — Joe Rogan > [01:18:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=4710s) 我不认为考古学是一门严谨的科学。我认为考古学者往往是在看着残存碎片进行主观猜测，他们虽然借用科学工具，但一旦确立了自己的时间线，就死死抱守、极度抗拒任何修正。 — Joe Rogan > [01:30:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=5441s) 因为他们喜欢那种外观。 — 秘鲁官方向导 > [02:34:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo&t=9293s) 你不可能仅凭健康的饮食就重新赢回那些早已遗失的生理天赋 — Timothy Alberino ## Mentioned Joe Rogan, Timothy Alberino, Devon Larratt, Steve Quayle, George Noory, Coast to Coast AM, Gen 6 Productions, L. A. Marzulli, Lue Elizondo, Derek & Sharon Gilbert, 《崇拜》(Veneration), 《以诺书》(The Book of Enoch), 《秘鲁纪事》, 《肯塔基州历史》(History of Kentucky), 圣阿纳斯塔西娅教堂 (Church of Santa Anastasia), 卡利亚里大学 (University of Cagliari), 安敦宁·毕尤 (Antoninus Pius), 弗朗西斯科·皮萨罗 (Francisco Pizarro), 贝尔纳韦·科博 (Bernabé Cobo), 安东尼奥·德·拉·卡兰查 (Antonio de la Calancha), 佩德罗·西埃萨·德·莱昂 (Pedro Cieza de León), 埃德蒙多·德拉加拉 (Edmundo de la Gala), 巴勃罗·何塞·德·阿里亚加 (Pablo José de Arriaga), 《秘鲁偶像崇拜之铲除》(The Extirpation of Idolatry in Peru), 凯拉萨神庙 (Kailasa Temple), 奥朗则布 (Aurangzeb), 史密森尼学会 (Smithsonian Institution), 亚伯拉罕·林肯 (Abraham Lincoln), 约翰·里夫斯 (John Reeves), 美国自然历史博物馆 (American Museum of Natural History), 波兹·马龙 (Post Malone), 兰德尔·卡尔森 (Randall Carlson), 阿尔贝托·多尼尼 (Alberto Donini), 本·范·克尔克维克 (Ben van Kerkwyk / UnchartedX), 扎希·哈瓦斯 (Zahi Hawass), 皮尔斯·摩根 (Piers Morgan), 吉米·科塞蒂 (Jimmy Corsetti), 海勒姆·宾厄姆 (Hiram Bingham), 胡利奥·C·特略 (Julio C. Tello), 布莱恩·福斯特 (Brien Foerster), 罗赫尔·苏尼加 (Roger Zúñiga), 海梅·莫桑 (Jaime Maussan), tridactyls.org, 《死海古卷》, 柏拉图《蒂迈欧篇》与《克里提亚篇》, 格雷厄姆·汉考克 (Graham Hancock), 《符号与印记》(The Sign and the Seal), 埃隆·马斯克 (Elon Musk), 尤瓦尔·诺亚·赫拉利 (Yuval Noah Harari), 《Birthright》 ## Video description Timothy Alberino is an author, lecturer, and explorer. His latest release is a new edition of the ancient text “The Book of Enoch,” for which he wrote the introduction and commentary. https://www.youtube.com/@TimothyAlberino https://www.timothyalberino.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob3BtMixuo)

[1:26] 五角大楼知情人士: 在这个话题上一定要格外小心。 [4:03] 美军情报人员: 不准拍照，此后永远不准提起，此事从未发生 [12:07] 参议员幕僚长: 你到底把自己卷进什么事情里去了？你到底在调查什么？你必须极其小心！ [15:43] Joe Rogan: 如果远古时期真的存活过这样一个巨人种族，他们究竟为什么要竭尽全力向大众隐瞒？ [27:16] Timothy Alberino: 在什么节点上，传闻证据因为其无处不在而实质上变成了确凿证据？ [42:24] 萨尔达拉市长: 管好你自己的该死闲事，把东西扔进教堂，然后闭上你的臭嘴！ [50:00] 天主教神父: 把这具尸骨彻底砸碎，搅拌到盖房子的地基泥土和混凝土里去。 [66:20] 亚伯拉罕·林肯: 那种已经绝迹的巨人物种，它们的眼眸曾凝视过尼亚加拉，一如我们此刻所见；而如今，它们的骨骸正充填着美洲的那些土丘。 [70:19] Joe Rogan: 史密森尼学会里总该有个受够了这一切的深喉爆料人吧？带上你的智能手机，悄悄溜进地下仓库去拍点真家伙出来！ [78:30] Joe Rogan: 我不认为考古学是一门严谨的科学。我认为考古学者往往是在看着残存碎片进行主观猜测，他们虽然借用科学工具，但一旦确立了自己的时间线，就死死抱守、极度抗拒任何修正。 [90:41] 秘鲁官方向导: 因为他们喜欢那种外观。 [154:53] Timothy Alberino: 你不可能仅凭健康的饮食就重新赢回那些早已遗失的生理天赋

[68:00] Abraham Lincoln: the eyes of that species of extinct giants whose bones filled the mounds of America [94:03] Timothy Alberino: The reason why there's an inferior mode of building on top of those megalithic foundations is because they didn't know how to do that... The only reason you would put inferior architecture on top of superior foundations is because you don't know how to do that. [118:36] Joe Rogan: If you have 20%, 30%, even 40% more volume... 40% more brain is nuts, like what does that mean? [137:43] Timothy Alberino: mountain of oath [137:43] Timothy Alberino: mighty men of old, men of renown [141:49] Timothy Alberino: empire of the gods [141:49] Timothy Alberino: chariots of God [148:51] Timothy Alberino: technologically advanced fraternity within civilization [152:08] Timothy Alberino: mutational load [152:08] Timothy Alberino: conversation at the speed of thought [156:32] Timothy Alberino: posthuman apocalypse

[0:01] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. [0:04] >> The Joe Rogan Experience. [0:06] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY [0:08] NIGHT. All day. [0:12] Tim or Tim? [0:13] >> Tim is fine. [0:14] >> All right. What's up, Tim? What's going [0:16] on? [0:17] >> What's up, Joe? [0:17] >> Nice to meet you. [laughter] [0:19] >> Great to be with you. [0:20] >> Uh, I've seen a lot of your content [0:22] online, but the one that got me the most [0:24] was absolutely the giant in Afghanistan, [0:27] the Kandahar giant story. And I don't [0:29] know if you know, but um I had uh Devin [0:32] Lorat on the podcast, the arm wrestler, [0:35] and he told a story about how when he [0:37] was in the Canadian military, he was [0:39] deployed in Afghanistan. And um one of [0:43] >> the guys that he was working with over [0:45] there had to have a conversation with a [0:47] warlord, with a local warlord, and he [0:50] said this guy was eight feet tall. He [0:52] said this guy was [ __ ] huge. And and [0:54] not just tall, but wide. He said it was [0:56] the biggest man he's ever seen in his [0:58] life. [0:59] >> Well, I've heard a lot of things about [1:01] giants in in Afghanistan. And I find [1:04] that, you know, I I I talk about a lot [1:06] of different topics. I talk about a lot [1:08] of UFO stuff. Um, and I say some things [1:12] that I know are [1:15] that I know could get me in trouble, but [1:17] nothing makes me more nervous than [1:19] talking about Giants, specifically the [1:22] Kandahar giant and and the giants in [1:24] Kandahar in general. [1:26] >> Why? [1:28] >> You know, mainly because when I talk to [1:31] people who know things, [1:34] they're very, very nervous when we get [1:36] to this topic. And some of them will [1:39] just flat out will not talk about giants [1:41] in general, but specifically giants in [1:43] Afghanistan. [1:45] And some of these guys are high level [1:47] guys that worked at the Pentagon. [1:50] Um, and they'll talk rather freely with [1:54] me about UFOs, but as soon as we broach [1:57] this topic, it's it's like they they [2:00] warn they literally will warn me, be [2:02] careful with this topic. What [laughter] [2:04] >> What do you make of that? [2:06] Well, I think that uh the topic of [2:10] giants is intermeshed with the occult. [2:14] That's my personal theory because [2:16] nothing else makes sense. [2:19] Who cares if there's 8 foot tall guys, [2:21] right? Big deal. [2:22] >> Well, there's 8 foot tall humans, right? [2:24] There's We were just talking about that [2:25] young kid that's a basketball player [2:27] that's 7 foot n right? [2:28] >> There's a few of them now. I've seen [2:30] >> Yeah. So, there's actual giants that are [2:32] in public, [2:33] >> right? They're like play for the NBA and [2:36] they're out there. You could meet them. [2:38] >> Mhm. [2:39] >> But when I talk when I say giants, I'm [2:41] talking about 9 to 12 feet tall. [2:44] >> That's that's 8 to 12 feet tall would [2:46] would I would I would classify an 8 foot [2:48] tall person as a giant as well. As long [2:50] as they don't have gigantism, [2:52] >> right? [2:53] >> That's a completely different thing, [2:54] right? [2:55] >> Gigantism is a disability. This Kandahar [2:58] giant story is very crazy because um [3:00] what what's interesting about it is the [3:02] people that I've talked to that have [3:04] been in Afghanistan that were deployed [3:06] in Afghanistan, not just Devon but other [3:08] people, they don't dismiss it. They say [3:11] we've heard some weird [ __ ] about that [3:13] place. And the the thing that they [3:15] always say is you got to realize like [3:17] Afghanistan is an old country. It's old [3:21] and it's very remote. Like most of it is [3:25] very mountainous. It's controlled by [3:27] warlords. And you know, look, there's [3:30] these [3:31] what are those? Are they Greek or Roman? [3:33] Those uh structures that are there that [3:35] were that date Greek they look like [3:38] Greek temples that date back to [3:40] Alexander the Great. And archaeologists [3:42] can't study them. They can't go there [3:44] because it's too dangerous. [3:45] >> It's one of the most remote places on [3:47] the planet specifically because it's so [3:49] dangerous. You can't just go strolling [3:51] around Afghanistan. I mean, [3:53] >> you probably would it probably would be [3:54] easier to go to Antarctica than [3:56] Afghanistan. [3:58] >> And hilarious. [3:59] >> So, the story of the Kandahar giant. [4:02] >> Yeah. Let's tell the story. [4:03] >> This story has grown into a mythology [4:06] over the years. Um, [4:09] years ago, I was working with a [4:11] gentleman named Steve Quail, and we [4:13] started a production company called Gen [4:15] 6 Productions, and we were making [4:17] documentary films mainly about giants, [4:19] mainly on the topic of giants. [4:22] giants as like referred to in the Bible [4:24] in ancient history, the Smithsonian [4:27] giants. [4:27] >> That's right. Biblical and historical [4:29] accounts of giants. So, I was traveling [4:30] around the world investigating giants. [4:32] And Steve is known for his [4:34] investigations into giants. [4:36] And he got a phone call from an elderly [4:40] an elderly woman who told him, "You need [4:42] to talk to my son. My son has a story he [4:45] needs to tell you." And she had to [4:48] convince her son to talk to Steve. and [4:50] and ultimately he did and he was active [4:53] duty. He was a C130 pilot, active duty. [4:57] He actually went on coast to coast with [4:59] Steve. They went on coast to coast [5:01] together and he related his story, I [5:04] believe, with George Nory, him, Steve, [5:05] and George. And then later on, we we [5:08] flew him into Bzoon, Montana [5:10] to put him in our documentary film that [5:13] we were making. And he did not he wanted [5:17] to be filmed in silhouette. he did not [5:19] want his face out there even though he [5:20] knew that they're going to be able to [5:22] mark him just by his voice. [snorts] [5:25] So he flies into Bosezeman. Uh we meet [5:28] with him. He shows us his credentials. [5:30] He was active duty C130. And then he [5:33] told us the following story [5:35] among many other things that he told us. [5:38] He said back in 2005 [5:40] he was deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq [5:44] running missions as a C130 cargo pilot. [5:47] And oftent times they would have him fly [5:49] into Bram airfield. [5:52] And these were routine missions. And so [5:54] on one of these missions he's flying [5:56] into Bram. [5:58] But this time when he landed he was met [6:01] as soon as he deplaned he was met on the [6:03] tarmac by some individuals that he [6:05] describes as the babysitters. He calls [6:07] them the babysitters. He thinks they [6:09] were either army intelligence or air [6:11] force intelligence guys. And they didn't [6:13] tell him. But this was different because [6:16] when he disembarked, [6:18] they told him no photos, no mention of [6:21] this ever. This never happened. So he [6:23] knew that whatever was about to happen [6:26] was top secret. And he had flown uh [6:29] classified missions before, usually [6:31] retrieving Taliban guys, what what he [6:34] described as highvalued assets. [6:37] But this was different because these [6:39] there were intelligence guys on the [6:41] tarmac [6:42] waiting for something. And it turns out [6:45] what they were waiting for was the cargo [6:47] that was being delivered on a forklift [6:50] to the to the C130. [6:52] And the pilot says that the first thing [6:54] that struck him as this cargo is moving [6:56] toward him and [snorts] his crew was the [6:59] was the odor. He said it smelled like [7:02] this like musk b and death. And it was [7:06] extremely pungent. [7:08] And when the cargo arrived, it was on a [7:12] an air cargo pallet which is 7 by9. And [7:15] there was a he could see that there was [7:17] a person [7:19] on the pallet in the fetal position. [7:23] And this individual was so large that [7:26] his hands and his feet and part of his [7:28] head were were hanging off the pallet. [7:33] and [7:35] he and his load master and there were [7:37] some Marines who accompanied the pellet [7:39] who accompanied this cargo. [7:41] Uh they were actually putting their feet [7:44] up to this guy's feet, this dead giant's [7:46] feet and seeing how small their feet [7:49] were compared to his. Now the giant had [7:52] red hair. He had six fingers on each [7:55] hand, six toes on each foot. His feet [7:57] were wrapped in like a crude canvas foot [8:00] wrapping. [8:02] and he was solid as a rock. Again, most [8:06] of his body was covered by a tarp, but [8:07] the pilot and the guys around him were [8:09] were hitting him with their fists. And [8:12] he came up to about their their [8:13] midsection, laying in the fetal [8:15] position. And he and the pilot told me [8:17] he was solid as a rock, this guy. And he [8:21] asked the the Marines, [8:25] "What happened? Where did this guy come [8:26] from?" and they told him that they had [8:29] heard [8:31] that there was a team that was out in [8:32] Afghanistan [8:34] that was looking for Taliban or [8:36] something and they came upon a cave [8:39] because there was a nearby village and [8:41] the villagers were were bringing food [8:44] and other artifacts to the mouth of this [8:46] cave and so they thought that they're [8:47] aiding and abetting the Taliban. So they [8:50] went into the cave and rather than [8:51] encountering the Taliban, what they [8:53] found was this enormous humanoid [8:56] who killed them all. And then according [9:01] to these soldiers, they deployed another [9:03] team to go look for that team. And when [9:07] they found the cave, they found the [9:08] traces of that other team. They were [9:10] ready. They were prepared. And they were [9:13] able to kill the giant. In fact, the [9:15] soldiers told the pilot that the giant [9:17] was eating on members of the team who he [9:19] had who had killed previously. [9:22] But these new guys, they took him down [9:24] and then they had a a transport [9:26] helicopter come in and airlift him to [9:28] Bram. [9:29] >> Did you ever try to find records of who [9:33] was there and casualties that were [9:37] reported, deaths that were reported? [9:39] >> Um, it's very difficult. The Pentagon [9:42] actually released a statement some years [9:44] ago which is bizarre to me. [snorts] You [9:46] know, basically saying in paraphrasing, [9:49] the Kandahar giant incident never [9:51] happened. There was never a giant that [9:52] was killed in Afghanistan. [9:54] >> The Pentagon? [9:55] >> Yes. It was a represent It was like a [9:57] spokesman from the Pentagon or something [9:58] or a release from the Pentagon. [10:00] >> Is this available online? [10:01] >> Yeah. They actually felt the need to [10:03] debunk this. [10:04] >> That's hilarious. Now [10:05] >> that that gets me sketchy. Well, uh, I [10:09] believed the pilot because he was a very [10:10] credible guy. He didn't want his name [10:13] out there. He didn't want fame or [10:14] notoriety. He was very nervous. He [10:18] thought, "There's a good chance that [10:19] they're going to recognize me by my [10:21] voice." He was on Coast to Coast AM. And [10:23] then he's on in our documentary. There's [10:25] a good chance I'm going to get [10:26] recognized and there's going to be some [10:27] reprisal. He was nervous. Now, they [10:30] weighed the giant before they loaded him [10:32] on the C130 cuz they have to load [10:35] everything that goes on the C130. the [10:36] load master weighed him. He weighed [10:38] 1,100 lb. And they estimated his his [10:42] height at 10 to 12 feet tall. [10:45] And so they loaded him onto the C130 [10:49] and then they flew him to Qatar. [10:51] And then they they unloaded the cargo in [10:54] Qatar and the and our pilot told me he [10:57] heard through the grapevine [11:00] that the body ended up at Wright [11:02] Patterson Air Force Base. He said, "I [11:04] don't know. That's just what I heard. [11:07] So, this is a firsthand account from the [11:10] C130 pilot who flew the body himself [11:13] from Bram Airfield to Qatar. [11:16] >> Why does all the weird [ __ ] go to Wright [11:18] Patterson? [11:19] >> That's a good question. You know, [11:20] >> because that's where the weird [ __ ] [11:21] goes. [11:22] >> Wright Patterson used to have this the [11:23] blue room. I don't know if they still [11:25] have it, but they used to have a room [11:27] there called the blue room where they [11:28] had all of the alien artifacts that had [11:30] been recovered and that they were [11:31] studying. [11:33] And um it was completely off limits to [11:36] anybody except for people who had [11:37] access, the very few who had access. And [11:42] um but the Kandahar giant, you know, [11:45] that story, a colleague of mine, Ellie [11:47] Marculli, he had another guy come to [11:49] him, a different guy. We we interviewed [11:51] the pilot, Steve and I. LA had another [11:53] guy come to him that was I can't [11:56] remember the details. He was a special [11:57] forces guy. He had firsthand knowledge [11:59] of the event as well. And we're not sure [12:01] if it's the same one or a different one. [12:03] if it's were if there was just one [12:05] incident with the Giants or if there [12:07] were multiple incidents now years later [12:11] this would be just a couple of years ago [12:12] because we published that film I think [12:14] back in 2016 but just a couple of years [12:17] ago and I I do have to be very careful [12:20] here I I ran into a a gentleman who was [12:25] who was uh very high up let's say in the [12:28] operations happening out there during [12:30] the Iraq war and if and in Afghanist [12:34] And this individual [12:38] uh had um he he'd flown a lot of [12:42] missions [12:44] and and he was a commander [12:47] and I asked him, we were having a casual [12:50] conversation and he starts to walk away [12:52] and I said, "Hey, you were in flying [12:54] missions in Afghanistan." I said, "Did [12:55] you have you ever heard about the [12:58] Kandahar giant?" And his wife was [13:00] standing next to me and he's sort of [13:02] walking away. He turns around, the blood [13:04] rushes out of his face, and he literally [13:06] goes like this to me, [13:08] points to his phone, and his wife [13:10] whispers, "He can't talk about that." [13:14] [laughter] So later on, I was able to [13:17] [clears throat] we agreed to meet at [13:18] later on and and in a in a very [13:21] controlled environment. Um and and he [13:24] related a story to me that's the most [13:26] wild story I've I've ever heard in my [13:28] life. And I I'm sorry I can't relate [13:29] [laughter] it. Um I love this guy. I [13:32] want to protect him. But um [13:36] it's not the giant of Kandahar. It's the [13:38] giants of Kandahar. There's more than [13:41] one. The military has known about it. I [13:44] then and aside from him, I talked to [13:46] other soldiers who've also [13:49] um who've also had knowledge of that the [13:53] specific incident that I cited earlier, [13:55] but then also in general the giants in [13:58] Afghanistan. [14:00] And I have a friend of mine who [14:04] uh I met some years ago. Actually, I was [14:06] with Lou Alzando uh at LS Bar in [14:09] Wyoming. And uh there was a a friend of [14:13] LSE who's now a friend of mine there and [14:16] we were talking about the Kandahar [14:18] giant. I was just telling him the story [14:19] I told you and he just couldn't believe [14:21] it. He thought this is this is nuts. [14:23] This is crazy. And I said, "Okay, [14:26] do something for me. Next time you're [14:28] talking to somebody in government or in [14:29] the military who you think maybe might [14:31] know something about this, bring it up. [14:33] See what happens." So he called me one [14:35] day and he said, "Tim, you're not going [14:37] to believe it." He said, "I was talking [14:39] to [14:41] I have to be very careful here, too." He [14:42] said, "I was talking to a certain [14:44] individual who works for a senator. He's [14:46] a he's a a staffer. I think I believe [14:49] he's one of the a chief of staff for the [14:51] senator or at the very least an adviser. [14:54] And he's got a military background, [14:56] special forces." And he said, "I was [14:59] sitting there, we're really good [15:00] friends." He said, "We're having a [15:01] casual conversation as we always do. [15:05] And just in the midst of this [15:06] conversation, I said, "Hey, what what do [15:08] you know about [15:10] the Kandahar giant?" And he said his [15:13] face completely contorted [15:16] and he was no longer just they were no [15:19] longer just being happy and laughing. He [15:21] became very stern. [15:24] And he and he said, "What have you [15:27] gotten yourself into? [15:29] What what are you looking into?" He [15:31] said, 'You need to be really careful. [15:34] And he wouldn't tell him anything else. [15:37] That's the kind of reaction that that I [15:39] get and others get whenever we we try [15:41] and get information on this story. [15:43] >> It's a very fun story. I don't know why [15:44] it's so fun, but it's very fun. Um, but [15:46] the question is, what would be the [15:50] reason why they would want to keep [15:52] something like this a secret? [15:54] >> I don't I don't totally understand it. [15:56] >> I don't either. I mean, if there really [15:58] were [16:00] a race of giants that survive, let's [16:02] let's assume that what we're talking [16:04] about is what's referenced in the Bible, [16:06] right? Let's let's assume or at least [16:08] the book of Enoch, like the Nephilim, [16:11] right? If we're talking about giants, [16:13] >> like [16:14] >> the thing about giants is like [16:17] >> Native Americans have stories about [16:18] red-headed giants. They they talk about [16:21] the same thing about them having six [16:23] fingers and six toes. They have these [16:24] same myths. Like how is it that people [16:28] from the Middle East and people from [16:30] North America have this same ancient [16:33] story and what is it what is it in [16:36] reference to like why why does that [16:40] >> it's ubiquitous this I mean the legends [16:43] of giants are universal all over the [16:45] >> why hide that that's what I don't [16:46] understand like the stories about the [16:48] Smithsonian are always fascinating yeah [16:50] because the stories are [16:52] >> there have been archaeological digs and [16:54] they have discovered like enormous [16:56] femurss that they thought were like [16:57] woolly mammoths or something and then [16:58] they realize like well this is a giant [17:00] human [17:01] >> and they find hair and the hair is red [17:06] and that they and that they take these [17:07] bones and they tuck them away somewhere. [17:10] I mean this is always the myth. They [17:12] tuck them away in the basement of the [17:13] Smithsonian or somewhere else and for [17:17] whatever reason the general public is [17:19] not allowed to know about this. And I [17:21] don't totally understand what is it [17:24] about giants that they would try to key [17:26] from us. Like if they find a new species [17:28] of dinosaur that's extinct, they'll let [17:29] you know. Fascinating. Amazing. They [17:32] find um Homo Floresensis or however you [17:35] say it, the little hobbit people. Yeah. [17:37] Let you know. Look, we found little [17:39] hobbit people. Pretty cool. [17:41] Giants for whatever reason, [17:44] >> you know, it is a it's a conundrum. And [17:47] >> if it's real, [17:48] >> it it's [17:49] >> you think it's real. [17:50] >> I giants in general. [17:51] >> Yeah. [17:52] >> Oh, yeah. 100%. [17:53] >> What makes you think it's real? [17:55] >> Okay. So, um, [17:58] >> let me tell you why I think that this [17:59] thing's being covered up and then Okay. [18:01] And then I'll tell you why I think it's [18:03] real and we'll go to Sardinia for that. [18:06] So [18:08] I like you have been wondering for a [18:10] long time like what is the big deal and [18:12] initially people in my field especially [18:14] people who are coming from a biblical [18:15] perspective. [18:17] The common answer is well the existence [18:20] of giants would affirm the biblical [18:21] narrative right and [snorts] so the [18:22] secular atheist types don't want the [18:25] biblical narrative affirmed. [18:28] I that can't be that can't be right [18:30] because the existence of giants doesn't [18:32] just affirm the biblical narrative. It [18:34] affirms the myths and legends of every [18:36] ancient culture across the globe, [18:37] >> right? [18:38] >> Including the Bible. So, it's not [18:41] something that's specific exclusive to [18:43] the text of scripture. So, it would just [18:45] affirm all these legends in in general. [18:48] So the only thing that makes sense to me [18:51] at this point and the other line of [18:53] thinking by the way would be that it [18:54] would somehow conflict with the theory [18:56] of evolution by natural selection which [18:58] I don't really buy into that either [18:59] because they would just say that this [19:02] branch of humanoids [19:04] u they descended from gigantoopythecus [19:06] or something like that. I don't think it [19:08] would be that difficult of a problem for [19:10] the theory of evolution by natural [19:11] selection either. Um, I'm not myself an [19:15] evolutionist, but I don't I don't see [19:17] them having that difficult of a problem [19:19] here. So, the only thing left on the [19:21] table for me is that there's something [19:23] very sinister going on in regard to the [19:26] remains of giants. And [19:30] if you study the mythology of giants all [19:34] over the world, especially in the [19:36] ancient near east, you will discover [19:38] that there was in fact a cult of giants [19:40] that there that there were cultures that [19:42] venerated giants and that there was a [19:45] very particular belief about giants. And [19:48] this goes back into the book of Enoch. [19:51] And the idea is that this race of beings [19:54] who are not entirely human. They're [19:55] hybrids that when they die, you can [19:58] still make contact with their spirits, [20:01] with their souls. They can be summoned. [20:04] They in fact, these are the demons that [20:06] these are the in the New Testament of [20:07] the Bible. These are the demons that [20:09] possess people. This is the origin of [20:11] demons, by the way, in Hebrew cosmology. [20:14] So there's this pervasive idea again, [20:18] especially in the ancient near east, [20:20] that dead giants can be communicated [20:22] with and and can possess living human [20:26] beings. They're spirits. And so you have [20:28] a cult of giants of the ancient near [20:30] east, especially among the Canaanites. [20:32] And the Canaanites, [20:35] they had actually there's uh there's [20:40] various customs and and and rights [20:43] related to giants, but one of the [20:45] specific ones that we know about is [20:47] called Kispam, the right of Kispam. And [20:50] there's a fantastic book written by my [20:52] my friends Derek and Sharon Gilbert [20:54] called Veneration where they detail the [20:56] right of kispum and this idea of making [20:59] contact with the spirits of dead giants [21:02] and the veneration of giants. [21:04] And the right of kispam was it was [21:06] practiced broadly speaking in in the [21:08] ancient near east but specifically among [21:09] the Amorites [21:11] and other Canaanite clans as well. And [21:15] and what they would do is they would [21:17] hold a feast and then they would invite [21:19] the dead to come and join them at the [21:23] feast. So this was a necroantic right [21:26] and they would they would evoke the dead [21:30] and they believed that the dead would [21:31] come and and and eat with them. Now the [21:32] kings and specifically the Amorite [21:35] kings, they would invoke the spirits of [21:37] the mighty ones, the great ones, the [21:39] giants of old, the rephim. The biblical [21:43] account names various different clans of [21:45] giants that inhabited the Levant during [21:48] and after the conquest by Joshua and the [21:50] and the Hebrews. [21:52] And you you had the Anakim who descended [21:55] from the Nephilim. You had the Raphaim, [21:59] the Zamzumim, the Amime. These are [22:02] various clans of giants that are [22:03] specifically named in the Bible. Of [22:06] course, we get Goliath of Gath. Gath is [22:08] a Philistine city. after Joshua entered [22:12] the promised land, they drove out and [22:14] eradicated a lot of these giant clans, [22:17] but some of them remained. Some of the [22:19] individuals remained and they were [22:21] primarily went to the Philistine cities [22:23] of Gaza, Gath, and Ashdad. And so you [22:26] have Goliath of Gath who David [22:28] encounters later in the biblical text. [22:30] So, it's these heroes of old, these [22:33] these descendants of the Nephilim that [22:36] the Amorites and the ancient [22:38] Neareasterners are are attempting to [22:40] make contact with because they have [22:42] knowledge and they they these are [22:44] possessing spirits. And so, the right of [22:46] Kispum that the kings would summon the [22:49] Raphaim by name and you can find this in [22:51] the Ugaritic texts. Uh, Ugarit was a an [22:55] Amorite citystate located on uh on on [23:00] the shore of the Mediterranean in in [23:02] what is today northern Syria. [23:04] And they have uncovered documents where [23:07] the Amorite kings are summoning [23:09] specifically by name summoning dead [23:11] giants, the Raphaim. And the idea is to [23:15] summon them and then to become empowered [23:18] by their spirits, their possessing [23:19] spirits. Again, this goes back to the [23:21] tradition of Enoch that the giants when [23:24] they die, their spirits are in sort of a [23:27] state of suspended animation and they [23:30] can be revived. They can be resurrected [23:32] as it were and and can be made to [23:35] inhabit the bodies of human beings. So, [23:37] there's this ancient cult that existed [23:40] in the ancient near east and in other [23:41] parts of the world and it's associated [23:44] with the cult of Baal. [23:46] Um, so you have [23:50] Baal, the the the giants were thought of [23:52] as the warriors of Baal. So today we [23:55] know that the cult of Baal persists. I [23:58] mean the Epstein files. We know that the [24:00] cult of Baal is still being practiced. [24:02] >> What when you say the Epstein files, [24:04] what do you mean? What is the [24:05] >> There's references to Baal. And there's [24:08] there's the there's this recurrent theme [24:10] of Baal worship. [24:12] and Baal Jesus [24:15] Jesus refers to Baal as Satan in the New [24:17] Testament. So, it's basically Satanism. [24:19] It's it's a satanic cult. And [24:22] >> and how how is it referenced in the [24:23] Epstein files? [24:24] >> There's some there's some references to [24:26] Baal. I can't remember the exact [24:27] references, but there's there's a [24:29] there's apparently a cult of Baal. And [24:32] the elites are obsessed with some of the [24:34] elites. I don't know who or how many of [24:36] them, but it's becoming increasingly [24:38] apparent that there's a a [24:42] that there's an infatuation [24:44] with these ancient Neareastern cults, [24:46] specifically the Canaanitish cults. And [24:49] so, the reason why I'm going through all [24:51] of this is because I think it's still [24:52] alive and well today in society. And I [24:55] believe that they're using the bones, [24:57] the remains of giants in these [24:59] practices. I think it's extremely dark. [25:02] I think um this is part of the reason [25:05] why part of the reason why there may be [25:07] a cover up around it. [25:09] Um, nothing else makes sense to me. [25:11] Nothing else makes sense to me [25:13] >> in terms of the cover up. [25:14] >> In terms of the cover up, we were [25:15] talking about [25:15] >> the cover up. It makes sense to me that [25:17] you have incredibly powerful, wealthy [25:19] people that don't want to be exposed as [25:22] being perverts and yeah, [25:24] >> whatever the [ __ ] they were up to. [25:26] There's all the weird [ __ ] with beef [25:29] jerky and pizza. [25:31] You know, there's these very strange [25:33] references that seem to not be talking [25:35] about beef jerky and not It's some kind [25:37] of code. [25:38] >> Yeah. And there's also the fact that he [25:42] brought an enormous amount of sulfuric [25:44] acid like right after he was indicted to [25:47] the island like I I forget how many [25:50] gallons of it but barrels of sulfuric [25:52] acid [25:53] >> which is what you would use to dissolve [25:54] bodies. [25:55] >> So it's like it seems like there's a lot [25:57] of reasons for a cover up. If this guy [26:00] was running some sort of uh blackmail [26:02] operation and had information on [26:05] powerful people, you would that would [26:08] make sense that that's why they would [26:10] cover it up. [26:11] >> Well, that's the cover up the pedophilia [26:13] >> or just even if it's not pedophilia, [26:17] even just adultery or drug use or [26:21] whatever. The ball [clears throat] thing [26:23] apparently comes up on a bank [26:27] file and it may have been [26:29] misinterpreted. It does say B a L.name, [26:34] >> but people who are digging into this say [26:35] that it might have just been a [26:36] misinterpretation. That's the only [26:38] mention of it. [26:39] >> Misinterpretation. [26:41] >> Uh yeah, [clears throat] I mean it's [26:43] another page here shows it. Here's like [26:45] the document. [26:46] >> It might have just I don't I it doesn't [26:48] even say it there that I can see it. [26:51] >> Yeah. I'm not sure exactly. Here's where [26:53] it says it, you know, [26:53] >> exactly where Baal is referenced [26:55] specifically. There there for one place [26:58] for sure. [26:58] >> Bank document. I don't know if that has [26:59] anything to do with the occult [27:00] specifically. [27:02] >> Just imagine if it's the name of Satan [27:04] and this is the name of your bank [27:06] account. [laughter] [27:07] >> Yeah. [27:09] Yeah. That's quite odd. Yeah. [27:11] >> That's [27:13] at least creepy. [27:14] >> Yeah. For sure. [27:15] >> At least creepy. [27:16] >> Yeah. So, you have this this this [27:18] scenario in which let's just say for the [27:20] sake of argument that it's true. Okay. [27:21] >> Okay. That the legends are true, the [27:22] giants are real, that [27:26] you can make contact with their spirits [27:28] >> through their bones [27:29] >> through maybe through their remains. Um [27:33] that or at least people believe this. [27:36] And so [27:36] >> is there some sort of a method that they [27:38] use? [27:38] >> Yeah. Well, okay. So, this will get us [27:40] into Sardinia. So, whenever anyone asks [27:44] me what's the what's the best evidence [27:45] you've ever seen for the existence of [27:47] giants? Now you've already cited some [27:50] some his some historical context around [27:52] this. The legend of giants is [27:54] everywhere. It's in every continent and [27:57] you have giants aside from the biblical [27:59] account obviously all over the [28:00] Mesopotamia the cult of giants in the [28:03] United States during this the era of the [28:05] the Smithsonian gate the Smithsonian's [28:08] apparent the Smithsonian institutions [28:10] apparent cover up of giants especially [28:12] the ones that were being discovered in [28:13] the mountains here in the United States. [28:15] But it's pervasive. In Peru, there's [28:18] legends of giants. [28:20] And uh the natives, the indigenous [28:23] peoples absolutely believe there was a [28:25] primordial race of giants. The same [28:27] thing in Central America. They believed [28:28] there was a primordial race of giants [28:30] that was destroyed in the cataclysm, [28:31] specifically a flood. That's what the [28:34] Inca believed that Beakocha, the guy [28:36] created first a race of giants, but they [28:38] were they were they were stupid and evil [28:40] and so he destroyed them in a flood. [28:42] Same same story down in up in Mexico. [28:45] and among the Aztec and the Native [28:49] Americans, the six-finger redhaired [28:50] giants and so forth. So, there's a lot [28:52] of um historical context and I would and [28:56] of course it's anecdotal, but it's but [28:59] how much anecdotal evidence just at one [29:01] point does anecdotal evidence just [29:03] become evidence when there's when it's [29:04] so pervasive all over the world, [29:07] >> right? So, [29:09] um, as I was traveling around the world [29:12] studying giants and researching this [29:13] topic and investigating different [29:15] stories and legends, [29:17] um, I went to Malta, which is very [29:20] interesting. Obviously, lots of legends [29:21] of giants in Malta associated with the [29:23] megaliths. And then, and then I kind of [29:25] hit ground zero for giants, which is the [29:28] island of Sardinia. [29:30] And the island of Sardinia is located [29:32] west of of Rome. It's part of Italy. [29:35] It's in the western Mediterranean. below [29:37] below Corsica. [29:40] And many people don't realize this about [29:42] Sardinia, but Sardinia has the highest [29:46] um has the most megaliths anywhere on [29:51] Earth. It has the highest concentration [29:53] of megaliths anywhere that I've been as [29:56] far as I'm aware of. [29:59] There there are these massive megalithic [30:01] towers called Nuragi [30:04] that were constructed allegedly by the [30:08] uh or conventionally by the uh Nuragi [30:12] the neurogic civilization bronze age [30:14] civilization [30:16] and there are today still at least 7,000 [30:20] of these things standing you can go to [30:22] Sardinia and see 7,000 [30:24] new ragi towers there at one time 10 to [30:27] 30,000 [30:29] of these megalithic towers and some of [30:32] these towers stood over 100 ft tall. [30:35] >> Chammy, can we see some pictures of [30:37] these? [30:37] >> I'm trying to figure out [snorts] [30:39] >> Yeah. How would he look? [30:40] >> Nurogi. [30:41] >> Sardinia. [30:42] >> Nurrai. [30:42] >> Nurogi. Three different things. So I [30:44] don't I guess this is it. [30:47] Is that Yeah, that's what it is. [30:50] >> So what is the timeline of this neurogic [30:53] how do you say it? Neurogic. [30:54] >> The neurogic civilization. It's the [30:56] bronze age. [30:57] >> Yeah, the bronze age. So, what is that? [30:58] >> 3,300 to 3,300 BC to about 1,200 BC. [31:03] >> And that's what this stuff is from. [31:05] >> And um they say it was they say that [31:07] these were built in the bronze bronze [31:08] age. That's the the conventional idea. [31:11] And again, there's 7,000 of them on the [31:14] island today, [31:16] but there were up up to I've seen [31:17] estimates up to 30,000 including at the [31:19] museum in Sardinia. [31:23] And aside from these towers, they also [31:26] have these are, by the way, these are [31:28] megalithic. So these are these are [31:30] megalithic towers that are constructed [31:32] in the cyclopian style. And cyclopian [31:36] masonry, cyclopian architecture is the [31:38] trademark of megaliths worldwide. And [31:41] cyclopian this is the this is the the [31:45] archaeological term for the technique. [31:48] cyclopian referencing the great cyclopes [31:50] of of Greek mythology who were believed [31:52] to be the inventors of tower building [31:55] and you know the builders the offspring [31:57] of the gods who were the great builders [31:58] and masons [32:00] um that's the that's the mythology but [32:04] the trademark of cyclopian architecture [32:06] is that these these are large stones [32:08] that are fitted together without the use [32:10] of any binding agent like mortar without [32:11] any kind of mortar and you have you have [32:15] ex exquisite examples of cyclopian [32:17] masonry in different parts of the earth [32:19] like in Peru the walls of Sakaiwaman are [32:22] are absolutely amazing, breathtakingly [32:25] um [32:27] beautiful in regard to their design and [32:29] the the polygonal [32:31] um tightly fitting blocks, immense [32:33] blocks of stone. Whereas in Sardinia, [32:37] these are crude blocks. the crudely uh [32:40] worked blocks of of bassalt and granite [32:43] and limestone that are fitted together [32:46] but without the use of mortar. So they [32:47] are built in the cyclopian style. Again [32:49] some of them were 100 ft tall and they [32:52] had a some of them were for defensive [32:55] purposes and they some of them had a [32:57] wooden platform that crowned the top and [33:00] that platform was buttressed by other [33:02] very large stones that were that were [33:04] finally cut sometimes bassalt. I've I've [33:06] seen some of these stones in Sardinia [33:08] and I've been to the island a few times [33:09] researching the towers and giants [33:13] and um aside from the towers, these [33:16] megalithic towers, you also have [33:18] megalithic tombs which are called to [33:21] this day the tombs of the giants [33:25] and you can go and visit them. There [33:26] were um there's 800 of them extent today [33:30] and archaeologists believe there were [33:32] many more in the past. Someone knows [33:33] exactly how many, but often times it [33:35] seems to me that the towers and the [33:37] tombs are closely associated. They [33:39] fulfill a function I think that is um [33:43] that is inter interrelated [33:46] and the megalithic tombs of the giants, [33:50] the legends in according to legend in [33:52] Sardinia, [33:54] uh they were associated with the bodies [33:56] of giants. But of course today you have [33:58] armchair archaeologists who say that's [34:00] just a myth. There's you couldn't even [34:02] fit bodies inside of these tombs. Yes, [34:05] you could. I mean, none of these guys [34:06] have ever bothered to go to Sardinia [34:07] with a with a tape measure. I did. And [34:10] yes, you can. You can you can fit the [34:13] bodies of nine 8 n 10 foot tall guys in [34:15] these tombs without a problem. And [34:18] there's two different styles of [34:19] megalithic tombs in Sardinia. You have [34:21] the steelely style which it's um [34:27] it's there's a large steely stone, a [34:29] monolithic stone in the front with a [34:31] little doorway in it. And a doorway is [34:33] almost like a little doggy door at the [34:34] bottom, [34:36] but it's big enough. I mean, a a young [34:38] person could crawl through it. Uh and [34:41] then you have the triilathon doorway, [34:43] this style of megalithic tomb, which is [34:45] a larger doorway. You still have to, [34:47] like a guy my size would still have to [34:48] bend down to get inside. But the tombs [34:50] are configured the same. They're shaped [34:51] the same. These two different styles. [34:54] And what a lot of people misunderstand [34:58] about the tombs is the tombs were not [35:01] built to house the bodies of giants. [35:05] They were built on top of the interred [35:08] giant. [35:10] So the giant was inhumed beneath the [35:11] tomb. It was buried beneath the tomb and [35:14] then the edifice was built on top. So [35:16] that opening [35:17] >> where are you getting this information? [35:18] Oh, [35:19] >> this is known in Sardinia. Um I spent a [35:22] lot of time researching the the the [35:24] tombs of the giants in Sardinia and [35:26] talking to various experts. Um [35:28] >> and who are these experts like local [35:30] historians like what [35:31] >> some of them? Yeah. One there's there's [35:33] you can go to the um you can also go to [35:35] the museums in Sardinia and read a lot [35:37] of this stuff. Um, now the I have a [35:41] friend named Paula Loy who's uh she's a [35:46] she's a I think she's the best tour [35:47] guide in Sardinia and she's extremely [35:50] knowledgeable about all this stuff. She [35:51] take you to the museum and you walk [35:52] through all of this information with her [35:54] and they have little models in the [35:55] museum [35:57] of the the tombs of the giants. And [36:00] there's a legend in Sardinia that it's [36:04] that it's it's called the it's called [36:06] the right of incubation. [36:09] And this is a necroantic right that was [36:11] practiced by the Sardinians. And it [36:14] describes the purpose of the tombs. So [36:16] the tombs when you walk into the tombs, [36:17] again, they're megalithic. The walls are [36:19] megalithic. Some pretty large stones [36:21] incorporated in these tombs. When you [36:23] walk into the tombs, there's a gallery [36:25] inside and the the gallery is rather [36:28] large. You could fit a body vagina in [36:30] there, but that's beside the point [36:31] because that's not the purpose of the [36:32] tomb. The purpose of the tomb of the [36:36] gallery inside the tomb is to [36:40] uh is for the it's to accommodate a [36:45] young person during a right of passage. [36:49] And dur in during the bronze age, you're [36:51] talking about boys from 12 to 14 years [36:53] old, right? generally speaking. And they [36:56] would go into the tomb alone and they [36:59] would be sealed in the tomb. So that [37:01] little doggy door that's in the stelle, [37:04] the steely version of the tombs of the [37:07] giants, they would crawl in there and [37:08] then they would be sealed inside. And [37:10] there's a little um on most of those [37:12] steelely tombs, there's a little hole at [37:15] the top as well. So there's so it's not [37:17] like they're they're sealed in there and [37:19] they can't breathe or anything. No, they [37:21] they they would go in there and they [37:23] would spend some days in the tomb alone. [37:25] >> This is what it looks like. [37:26] >> That's one of the doors with the steely [37:29] monolithic stone. And they're all shaped [37:31] the same. It's hard to tell because [37:33] they've been disassembled. Many of them [37:34] have been disassembled. [37:37] But you can see they're the triilon. [37:39] That's a triilon tomb. [37:42] That's a that's something else. That's a [37:43] well. Um but the tombs are all sh you [37:46] can see down there. See right the [37:47] picture right below that one. There you [37:49] go. See how the tombs are shaped? [37:51] >> Yeah. [37:53] >> Now, that's how all these tombs are [37:54] shaped that way. This has to do with the [37:56] right of incubation. So, the young [37:58] person would go inside the gallery. [37:59] They'd be sealed inside that young boy, [38:01] and they would The purpose of this was [38:02] to incubate inside of the gallery in [38:06] order to be empowered and energized by [38:08] the spirit of the mighty one buried [38:11] beneath the tomb. And again, according [38:13] to legend, the mighty ones were giants. [38:16] So I don't think it's coincidental that [38:17] the tombs are actually shaped like a [38:20] womb. If you look at that the the the [38:23] view of the tomb from above. [38:26] Originally when I was um researching [38:28] this in Sardinia I thought it was shaped [38:30] like a bull's head which would be [38:33] something like uh the iconographic of [38:36] Molech or something like that [38:37] Canaanitish. [38:39] But I I realized that actually this is [38:41] shaped like a womb. The tomb looks like [38:43] a womb. If you pull up a womb, you'll [38:46] see what I mean. It looks it looks like [38:47] a womb, shaped like a womb. And and this [38:50] was to accommodate the right of [38:51] incubation. [38:53] And so these young people, the idea is [38:55] they're in there, they are communing, [38:59] incubating in the presence of the dead [39:01] hero buried beneath and they're [39:04] absorbing their spirit, their prowess. [39:08] And then the tomb is unsealed and the [39:10] young person emerges from the womb as it [39:12] were. [39:15] It's like a new birth. They're now they [39:16] went in a boy. They're now coming out a [39:18] man empowered by the spirit of the of [39:20] their ancestral heroes. So these are [39:24] these are called to this day the tombs [39:26] of the giants. Now you can say, well [39:29] that's just that's just mythology. [39:31] That's just Sardinian legend. The [39:33] problem is [39:35] you can interview people or at least you [39:37] could in times past interview Sardinians [39:41] all across the island who have [39:43] themselves dug up the bones of giants or [39:46] encountered the bones of giants in in in [39:49] some kind of a in some context usually [39:52] around the towers the Nuragi towers. I [39:56] interviewed dozens of people in [39:57] Sardinia, most of them elderly, [40:00] who had themselves encountered the bo [40:03] the bones of giants in in different [40:05] contexts while plowing in fields. They [40:07] they they pull up bones [snorts] or they [40:10] would find the bones in the tombs or [40:12] whatever. And it's very easy to dismiss [40:15] the whole thing as well, they were just [40:16] digging up megapona, right? The bones of [40:19] mastadons and giant sloths. The problem [40:21] is some of these bones had jewelry. Some [40:25] of them had had Roman coins associated [40:27] with them. Some of them had rings on the [40:29] fingers and necklaces around the the the [40:31] neck, the collar and and they would [40:36] actually the the the and the most of [40:37] these were old-timers because um [40:42] this doesn't it's not really happening [40:43] anymore in Sardinia. This is something [40:44] that was happening in the 60s, 50s, 40s, [40:46] 30s and and back. But especially between [40:49] like post World War II when the island [40:52] was undergoing a process of [40:54] industrialization and they were building [40:56] new roads and and and digging for [40:59] foundations and stuff. They were they [41:00] were digging up the bones of giants. And [41:02] there's a um there's a particular church [41:05] called Santa Anastasia in Sardinia. [41:09] Uh and it's in the region of Sada. And I [41:13] interviewed two gentlemen in in [41:15] Sardinia. Two guys who were officially [41:18] employed by the municipality and by the [41:20] university of Kajetti. Kajetti is the [41:22] capital city of Sardinia. They were [41:24] specifically employed to excavate the [41:26] ruins, the neurogic ruins on the [41:29] premises of the church of Santanastasia. [41:32] Santastasia is a small little Catholic [41:34] church. But if you go there, you'll see [41:36] that even today you can see the remains [41:38] of a neurogic settlement there. There's [41:42] a there there are Nuragi towers there. [41:44] It's just it's it's an archaeological [41:46] site. And these two individuals, one of [41:49] them, his name was Jeppe, the other's [41:50] name was Roberto. And Jeppe worked there [41:53] from um he worked there from I believe [41:57] it was uh 1979 to 1981. And then Roberto [42:02] worked there from 1982 to 1984. [42:06] Both of these guys employed officially [42:07] in an official capacity from the [42:09] municipality of Sada to do this [42:12] excavation. [42:13] And so they would be their the protocol [42:16] was you go and you excavate the ruins [42:19] and all the artifacts you find get put [42:22] into the church. So all the artifacts [42:24] went into the church of Santastasia. And [42:25] you can see this church by the way if [42:26] you pull it up it's called Sant [42:27] Anastasia in Sardinia. And all the bones [42:31] were put into the church. All the [42:33] artifacts were put into the church. [42:35] And among the artifacts that were being [42:37] collected were the skeletons of giants [42:41] and not mastadons, not giants. [42:44] >> Photographs of these things. [42:45] >> These guys they well of course not but [42:47] these guys were uh very reluctant to [42:50] talk to us. The one guy Roberto was very [42:53] nervous. He said we were told never to [42:56] talk about this. This never happened. [42:58] Again this was back in the 80s. He [43:00] didn't think anything of it. He wasn't [43:01] told go to Santa Anastasia and and look [43:04] for the bones of giants. He was just [43:05] told go excavate the site. He was one of [43:07] the excavators at Santastasia. And the [43:09] whole thing was being [43:12] um the whole thing was being supervised [43:13] by the municipality and the and the [43:15] university and and he dug up personally. [43:19] He said he dug up the bodies, two [43:21] bodies, 10 foot tall guys, full [43:23] skeletons, and he laid them out in the [43:26] these ones he laid out in the courtyard [43:28] of the church. And he said he he [43:31] notified the people in Kajetti of the [43:33] discovery. And what would happen is all [43:35] the artifacts that would go into the [43:36] church or in this case outside of the [43:38] church, somebody would come at night and [43:40] take them all away. So they get there in [43:43] the morning, all the artifacts are gone. [43:44] He didn't know where they went. Um the [43:47] other individual, Jeppe, he also [43:50] excavated giants from Santastasia. [43:53] various various uh artifacts related to [43:56] the giants, gigantic plates, gigantic [43:59] cups and goblets, chalicees. Um they [44:02] excavated they excavated a lot of [44:04] different artifacts, rings and and and [44:06] earrings and necklaces and all kinds of [44:09] all manner of artifacts. And he told me [44:13] that he remembers a particular case in [44:15] which he and his wife his wife was [44:16] helping on this particular day. They're [44:18] excavating in the ruins and they found a [44:21] skull that was so large. He said the [44:22] skulls were three to four times larger [44:24] than ours. He found this skull that was [44:26] very large and it had part of the [44:28] vertebrae attached. Some of these [44:29] remains were not just skeletal. There [44:31] was like almost like mummified. [44:34] And and he and his wife together carried [44:37] it into the church. He told me that [44:39] while they were digging, they they [44:41] unsealed a compartment [44:44] inside of one of the towers. There's [44:47] this large room that was sealed like the [44:51] it was just it had collapsed or whatever [44:52] it was sealed and they opened it up and [44:55] they went inside and there was a giant [44:58] this very large person sitting at a [45:00] table and and there were there's a [45:05] really large plate and a oversized [45:07] chalice there and and he even had he was [45:10] eating oysters and muscles and clams [45:13] that were still on the plate and he was [45:15] very large. I mean, these guys are [45:17] they're when I say large, they're 9 to [45:19] 12 feet tall. That's how tall these guys [45:21] are. And they were it was remarkable. He [45:24] was extremely well preserved and because [45:26] apparently he had been almost like [45:28] hermetically sealed in this thing. And [45:30] so they they took all the artifacts and [45:33] the bones and put them into the church [45:35] and the next day they were all gone. I [45:37] mean, this was the procedure. It was the [45:39] these guys uncovered a lot of [45:40] interesting stuff at those at that that [45:42] one particular [45:45] um that one particular excavation at the [45:47] church of Santastasia in Sard in Sarda [45:50] and he they were filling the church up [45:52] with so many artifacts that Jeppe told [45:54] me that he went over to the mayor and he [45:58] told the mayor is there anywhere else [45:59] that we can put these bones these [46:01] artifacts because we're running out of [46:02] space in the church [46:04] and he was surprised at the mayor's [46:07] response. The mayor looked at him and [46:08] said, "Mind your own effing business. [46:12] Put the artifacts in the church and shut [46:14] your mouth." So, um, these are the kind [46:18] of stories I would hear all the time in [46:20] Sardinia. I mean, I could go on and on [46:22] and on. I talked to one guy that was, [46:24] uh, Sai Vergilio was his name. He was [46:28] 100 years old. Very, um, very [46:31] interesting guy. And Sai had, uh, been [46:34] on a site when he was a young man. He he [46:36] he told me a couple of stories, but he [46:38] told me that he was he was he was [46:41] working in a vineyard one time and they [46:44] were excavating and this they weren't [46:46] excavating, they were they were tilling [46:47] the soil to plant a vineyard. And [46:51] [snorts] as they're tilling the soil, [46:52] they start to dig up bones and they [46:55] realize these are very large skeletal [46:57] remains. [46:59] And they were they found like 20 of them [47:02] and they were laying on top of each [47:03] other in a crisscross pattern. [47:06] And so as soon as they started to find [47:07] these bones, the owner of the vineyard [47:09] said, "Stop. Stop. I have to notify the [47:11] authorities." So he notifies the [47:13] authorities and he came back to the [47:14] workers and said, "You guys have to get [47:16] out of here. The authorities are coming. [47:17] You have to leave now." And Sai said [47:20] that everyone left, but he hid in the [47:23] bushes until everyone had left. And he [47:26] went back to work in the field because [47:28] he wanted he said, "I needed the money [47:29] and I wanted to actually get paid for [47:30] the day's wage." So I went back and I [47:32] worked and I kept tilling the field and [47:35] he said all of a sudden [47:37] well the the owner of the field came [47:39] back and he said, "What are you doing [47:40] here? I told you to leave." And he said, [47:42] "I needed the money, so I'm going to [47:44] keep working." And the guy said, "No, [47:45] no, I'll pay you double. Just get out of [47:46] here." And while they're talking, the [47:48] government guys pull up. And they they [47:50] pull up in some various vans and they [47:54] come out and they they start taking [47:56] pictures of all the bones [47:58] and they they take pictures of the bones [48:01] of these skele skeletal remains that are [48:04] laying in these cross configurations and [48:07] then they load them all into the vans [48:09] and then they went up into the nearby [48:10] nur. There was a uh a nur there, one of [48:12] these megalithic towers, and they were [48:15] inside the new ra looking at something, [48:17] taking pictures, and so I said that they [48:20] they sealed up like with cement, they [48:23] sealed up this this um tunnel, this this [48:27] something inside of it. [48:29] And then they and then they left. [48:32] And I heard dozens of these kind of [48:34] stories in Sardinia. Dozens. These [48:36] people have no reason to lie to me. I [48:38] mean, these are most of these are [48:39] old-timers. They we didn't pay them. Um, [48:43] they they you know, they live out in the [48:46] country. I don't know if you've ever [48:47] been ever been to Sardinia. It's it's [48:48] it's it's like going back in time in [48:50] Italy. These are very simple people that [48:52] live out in the country, but as I said [48:55] earlier, the bones, these giants are [48:56] being found with artifacts. [48:59] Sorry to interrupt, but I'm looking at a [49:00] story, but they're they're talking about [49:02] finding skeletons there. They're calling [49:04] them skeletons. They're calling them [49:06] giants, but they're referring to [49:07] statues. And they're [49:09] >> those are the the giants of Monte Prada. [49:12] Those are um [49:14] >> those different [49:15] >> those are statues. Those are giants of [49:17] Monte Pra. [49:18] >> I there's I mean there's news articles. [49:20] Goes back to the 70s. [49:21] >> Yeah, those are just statues. Yeah, [49:23] those are in a museum there. [49:24] >> But they call them skeletons is the only [49:26] thing I was saying. So there's like a [49:26] little [49:27] >> No, they're they're they're stone. [49:29] They're in the museum. I know [49:30] >> they're about seven feet tall, I think. [49:32] Um, some people wonder if those are [49:34] actually [49:35] >> uncovered skeletons. I saw another [49:37] article here where it said like they [49:38] found two giant skulls, but they're [49:41] talking about [49:43] >> the statues. [49:45] >> Yeah, those some people wonder if those [49:47] statues actually represented the, you [49:49] know, the the anatomical proportions of [49:52] the giants. I I don't know. I don't know [49:54] that that's the case, but yeah, that's [49:56] about all you're going to hear if you go [49:58] through. just seems insane that there's [50:01] not [snorts] a photo something of all [50:05] these things or that some wealthy crazy [50:09] person didn't get a hold of someone and [50:12] say, "Listen, I'll give you $10 million. [50:14] Get me a hand." You know, I want to put [50:17] it in a glass case in my house. We know [50:19] that they've done that with Egyptian [50:21] stuff. Like a lot of Egyptian artifacts [50:23] have been pilered. [50:24] >> Yep. Artifacts from Lot of artifacts [50:26] from Peru. [50:27] >> Yes. Central and South America. Yeah, [50:29] there's a there's a very robust black [50:30] market, [50:31] >> which is so wild. Like, who are these [50:33] people that have these things? [50:34] >> That's a good question. Well, I was told [50:36] in Sardinia, they told me that in some [50:38] cases they [50:40] the the bones were confiscated. [50:43] Um, they were gathered up and thrown [50:45] into into vehicles and carted away. Um, [50:49] Sai told me another story where he was [50:51] digging a foundation for a house. He and [50:53] he and an associate [snorts] and they [50:55] they came upon a very large sarcophagus [50:58] and they pried it open and he said there [51:00] was a body of a very large person [51:02] inside. And it had a black it was [51:04] wearing some sort of black fabric. And [51:05] there were coins uh that that were uh [51:10] that were minted from um Antoninus pious [51:14] the Roman emperor from that time. And [51:17] they reported there was a local priest [51:19] and they told the priest that they found [51:21] a body, right? Like we found a dead [51:22] body. What do we do? And so the priest [51:24] came over and he looked down in the pit. [51:26] He said, "Give me the coins." They gave [51:28] him the coins. He said, 'Break the bones [51:30] up and and and distribute them in the [51:31] foundation of the house. I mean, this [51:34] was, you know, if you went to Sardinia [51:36] today, I think you you you would think [51:37] to yourself, okay, yeah, I can see how [51:40] there's no one's taking pictures or [51:41] anything over here. This is like going [51:43] way back in time in Italy, especially [51:46] um especially back in the 40s, 50s, and [51:49] 60s when most of these things happened. [51:51] Now the the excavations at Santastasia [51:53] happened in the late '7s, early 80s, but [51:56] all these other stories are coming from [51:57] the you know 60s, '50s, 40s. So um I I [52:02] mean there was just so many people who I [52:05] talked to you know random people would [52:07] tell me as I interviewed them that oh [52:09] yeah yeah I was digging in my basement [52:11] one time and you know years ago and and [52:13] and I dug up a hand. It was it was a [52:16] hand five fingers and you know it was it [52:18] was three times the size of my hand. No, [52:20] that's [52:21] >> five fingers. [52:22] >> Yeah, that's random. That could just be, [52:24] you know, megapon or something. I don't [52:26] know how many what a giant sloth hand [52:28] looks like or whatever. And let me say [52:29] this, there is no question, none, no [52:32] question, [52:33] >> that a lot of the accounts that you hear [52:35] about giants, not the ones associated [52:37] with coins and jewelry, but a lot of the [52:39] accounts that you hear about giants and [52:41] the skeletons of giants, they do have [52:43] prosaic explanations. A lot of them do [52:46] end up being megapana bones, especially [52:49] giant sloths and stuff like that. There [52:50] was a case in Peru, actually was in [52:52] Ecuador. This is referenced in the [52:54] Chronicles of Peru that there's a place [52:56] called Santa Elena, and it's the p it's [52:58] a peninsula in in Ecuador. [53:01] And um there's various chronicers who [53:05] talk about this and these are the [53:07] chronicers who chronicle the the history [53:09] of the conquest of Peru. you know, the [53:11] the Piso and the and the Conquistadors [53:14] who defeated the Inca and and [53:18] they say that, you know, there was a [53:20] race of giants that there was giants [53:22] came the natives told the concistadors [53:24] and and the chronicers that according to [53:26] legend, giants came over the sea on [53:30] large reedboats. [53:31] And these giants were were they were [53:33] very very large and they had they had [53:35] red hair and uh some of them were naked [53:39] and some of them were dressed in in in [53:42] um very primitive clothing and they [53:45] landed on the shores of Santena, one of [53:47] the places they landed and they began to [53:49] terrorize the local population. The the [53:51] the indigenous people hated them because [53:53] they were they were eating all of the [53:56] food. I mean they they they the natives [53:57] said that they consumed 50 times um the [54:01] the amount of food is as a regular sized [54:03] person [snorts] [54:05] and and so the natives hated them. They [54:07] said that the giants built these deep [54:09] wells. They dug these really deep wells [54:11] which you could still see. The [54:12] concisador said we could still see them [54:13] today. They built these houses with very [54:15] large blocks and huge beams of wood [54:17] which were still there when the [54:19] concisadors were writing about this in [54:20] the in the 16th and or 17th and 18th [54:24] centuries. [54:26] And and according to legend, these [54:28] giants, they were sodomites and they [54:32] didn't have any women with them [54:33] [clears throat] and they were basically [54:35] struck down by God. And um the natives [54:39] have that and other legends regarding [54:42] giants being destroyed by God in various [54:44] ways. But it turns out that Santena [54:50] is [54:52] it's one of the the most um important [54:55] sites for megapona bones and there's [54:58] tons of megapon especially giant sloths. [55:01] So you have lots of megapona bones in [55:03] Santaena. [55:05] And I have no doubt that the the the the [55:10] natives and um [55:12] the people living during that time um in [55:16] the aftermath of the conquest of of the [55:18] Inca Empire thought that those were the [55:20] bones of giants. [55:21] >> Right. Because there was no giant sloths [55:23] alive at that time. [55:24] >> Exactly. and and and in some of the [55:27] accounts you can see where they're [55:28] saying in the giants and and you know we [55:30] we uncovered a giant that was had a [55:32] deformed body and I thought oh that's [55:35] probably a it's probably a giant sloth [55:37] or something right so yeah there's a lot [55:39] of that unquestionably and you have to [55:41] be very careful as a researcher and in [55:43] the beginning I when I when I I this was [55:45] years ago when I first started out [55:47] researching this stuff I made the [55:48] mistake of of of just taking that story [55:53] literally and believing oh yeah they [55:54] were digging up bones of giants Santaena [55:56] until I realized that that is like one [55:58] of the best places in the world to find [56:01] megapona bones. So obviously you have to [56:03] concede to the facts of reality. They're [56:05] digging up megapona there. However, [56:08] however, [56:09] there are other stories that come from [56:12] the chronicles in Peru where there's no [56:15] way they're talking about megapana. [56:17] And these stories come from the same [56:20] chronicers who from which we derive from [56:23] the same text from which we derive the [56:25] history of the conquest of Peru. The [56:26] same guys [56:28] like Bernab Kobo and Antonio de La [56:30] Kalancha and Pedro Sesa DeLeon all of [56:33] the you know the famous chroniclers. [56:36] And there's one case in particular I [56:38] find very intriguing. There's lots of [56:39] them. By the way, when I was in I was I [56:41] lived in Peru for 10 years at some point [56:43] and and then later on I went back to [56:45] Peru and doing various investigations [56:47] when I was looking into this, making [56:49] documentaries about giants. And when I [56:52] was in Peru, I was in Puno some years [56:54] ago, probably back in 2015, 2016, I was [56:57] in Puno and I met with an archaeologist [57:00] in Puno. His name was Edmundo de Laa, [57:04] very well-known archaeologist. [57:06] And um I asked him, "Hey, are there any [57:09] accounts of giants in the historical [57:11] records here?" And he said, "Yeah, I [57:15] think there's a there's a couple [57:16] accounts of giants." [57:18] And I said, "Okay." He said, "I I don't [57:20] think there's many, but I think there's [57:21] a couple." Okay. Well, the next morning, [57:23] he comes walking into my hotel in the [57:26] lobby, and he's got a big smile on his [57:27] face, and he hands me a disc [57:30] and he said, "I went after we talked, I [57:32] went into the archives." They have [57:34] access to the digital archives. and I [57:36] did a word search to try and see if I [57:38] could find some of these accounts of [57:39] giants. He said, "I cannot believe how [57:42] many references to giants there are in [57:44] the Chronicles." And he handed me the [57:46] disc and I I I opened the files and [57:49] indeed there were many. Now, some of [57:51] them were in reference to Santelena. [57:55] But some of them were much more [57:56] remarkable. For example, I'll give you [57:57] one example here. [58:00] There was a a Jesuit priest named Pablo [58:03] Jose Ariaga who was going around Peru [58:07] and he wrote a book called the [58:08] exterpation of idolatry in Peru. I think [58:11] it was 1602 [58:13] and he's he's going around Peru with the [58:17] what are called which were called the [58:18] BCadores who were the these were um [58:23] officials. There were clergymen that [58:26] were dispatched to Peru [58:29] who were extrepating idolatry. These [58:31] were the they were very fair at these [58:32] people, these BCor, these official um [58:36] idolatry hunters basically because they [58:39] were brutal. And what they would do is [58:41] they would go with the priests into the [58:43] villages. They would find out what are [58:45] the natives worshiping and then they [58:47] would destroy it and then force convert [58:49] the popula the population. [58:52] And they they chronicled everything. [58:53] They they everything they found because [58:55] they had to. This was an official [58:56] assignment, right? So they chronicle [58:58] everything that they find. This village, [59:00] they go to this village, they're [59:01] worshiping this. We we we broke it into [59:03] pieces or we burned it in the fire. And [59:07] these are official records. And among [59:09] these records, and this is this comes [59:11] from, as I said, Pablo Jose Ariaga, but [59:13] also later on Antonio de la Kalancha, [59:15] who is a austinian monk. Um it enlarges [59:19] the story. He expands on the story using [59:21] other documents including uh um [59:26] including um Kal um um Ariyaga's version [59:30] and the story goes that Ariyaga and [59:33] Bicadores they went into the village and [59:36] they were led they inquired what are [59:38] what are you worshiping where are your [59:39] gods and the indigenous people of Peru [59:44] they they worshiped wakas and the waka [59:47] could be anything it could be an idol it [59:49] could be a mountain, it could be a hill, [59:51] it was just wacas. Even to this day, [59:53] they call them wacas. And so they [59:55] inquired, "Where are your wacas?" And [59:57] they led them to the other side of the [59:58] village where there was a large cave. [60:01] And they go into the cave. And when they [60:04] went in there, they they record that [60:06] there were many dead Gentiles. [60:09] And among them were two giants [60:13] dressed in kumbi and they were [60:16] enshrined. [60:18] Now that's very interesting. Kumbi. [60:19] >> Kumbi is a very fine fabric [60:23] that is um it was it was used [60:26] exclusively by the Inca nobility. In [60:29] fact, it was illegal for any anyone else [60:32] to wear kumbi. Only the Inca nobility [60:34] could wear kumbi. This very fine fabric. [60:37] So, it's very ceremonial and it belongs [60:40] by law to the noble class. So, these [60:43] indigenous people, they can't wear [60:44] kumbi. But yet they dressed these two [60:48] uh and and it said that the bodies were [60:50] were well preserved almost like [60:51] mummified. They dressed these two giants [60:54] in kumbi [60:57] and they were enshrined in this tomb. [61:00] And so when they realized that they were [61:01] worshiping these giants, these dead [61:03] giants and the natives told them that [61:05] these were their ancestors, these were [61:07] their progenitors. That's what they told [61:09] the the bicadores of idolatry. They took [61:14] the bodies out of the tomb and they [61:16] burned them in the village. [61:18] Now, that's very interesting to me [61:21] because you have two [61:23] um bodies, not just skeletal remains, [61:27] bodies of giants decayed with time, but [61:30] still quite well preserved, dressed in [61:33] kumbi. This doesn't sound like a giant [61:35] sloth to me. This doesn't sound like a [61:38] mastadon. This is something else. And it [61:42] corresponds to all the legends among the [61:45] natives there in in Peru regarding the [61:48] existence of giants who were their [61:50] progenitors. [61:53] So those are just those are some [61:54] historical details, some historical [61:55] accounts that I find very intriguing. [61:58] >> Well, there's so many of them. That's [61:59] what's weird. And is there's also this [62:01] very bizarre desire that people have of [62:04] destroying things from the past. Yeah. [62:06] Uh we find that with uh I mean the [62:09] Taliban did that. You know, [62:11] >> there's there's a bunch of different [62:15] incredible archaeological sites that [62:16] were destroyed by past civilizations. We [62:19] we just talked the other day about um [62:21] the the Kyasa temple in India about how [62:25] they tried to destroy that for a couple [62:27] years. They sent a thousand people and [62:29] they could barely put a dent in it. [62:31] >> Who was trying to destroy that? [62:32] >> Oh, who was it, Jamie? Do we remember? [62:35] >> Didn't like it. I don't know [laughter] [62:37] >> some some uh [clears throat] [62:39] >> warlord or general or something. I I'll [62:41] find out [62:43] >> who they they came upon this temple that [62:45] they they didn't like that someone else [62:47] had built it and someone else owned it [62:48] and someone else had constructed it. [62:50] Yeah. You know the [clears throat] Kyasa [62:51] temple that was built entirely out of [62:53] stone. [62:53] >> Yeah. The one that was built like [62:54] literally carved into the ground [62:56] >> into the side of the mountain. [62:57] >> Yeah. [62:58] >> Emperor. Say that name. You could say [63:00] it. You're really good with words. [63:02] >> Mugal was what's his name? Looks like [63:04] Mughal to me. I've never heard of that. [63:06] >> What's the second word? Orang. [63:09] >> I don't know. [63:09] >> Orang. [63:10] >> Orang. [63:11] >> Historical figure widely reported to [63:13] have ordered the destruction of the [63:14] Kyasa temple in 1682. However, his [63:17] mission failed because the monolithic [63:19] temple was carved top down from a single [63:21] solid volcanic rock. His army could only [63:24] disfigure some sculptures before giving [63:26] up. [63:26] >> Oh, this was in 1682. Yeah. [63:28] >> Yeah. But it's just wild that people [63:30] have always had this inclination to [63:32] destroy old fascinating things. [63:35] >> Yeah, that's right. Especially you find [63:37] this. What's really sad is in Central [63:39] America among the Aztec, the Maya, there [63:42] were many codeexes of the Aztec and the [63:44] Maya that were intentionally destroyed [63:46] by by um by the the Catholic Church by [63:50] various agents of the Catholic Church [63:52] would intentionally destroy these [63:53] codeexes. Could you imagine the [63:55] information that was stored in those [63:57] things? Well, how about the Library of [63:58] Alexandria? [63:59] >> Yeah. [63:59] >> I mean, who knows what was in there and [64:01] and they burnt that several times, [64:03] right? [64:04] >> It's um [64:05] >> there's the historical accounts in North [64:08] America are are interesting because [64:10] there's actual newspaper stories from [64:14] God, was it like I believe it's the [64:16] 1800s. What do Do you know what I'm [64:19] talking about? [64:20] >> Yeah. [64:20] >> There are all kinds of newspaper stories [64:22] about giants in the 1800s. newspaper [64:23] stories about giant skeletons that have [64:25] been discovered and excavated. [64:27] >> Yes. From the mid 1800s to the early [64:29] 1900s. [64:30] >> And somehow or another, they all relate [64:32] to the Smithsonian. [64:34] >> Most of them are associated with the [64:35] mountains and the mound builders. There [64:37] were thousands of mounds east of the [64:39] Mississippi. I mean, uh, people don't [64:42] realize how many of these mounds there [64:44] were. And these are, you know, the [64:46] monumental mounds and earthwork. Some of [64:48] them still stand today. Not all of them [64:50] are burial mounds. You have different [64:52] kinds of mounds. Some of them are [64:53] effiges. Some of them are platform [64:55] mounds, but many of them are burial [64:57] mounds. And many of them contain contain [65:00] very prosaic things like the bones of [65:02] native people. But some of them were [65:05] said to have contained some very very [65:07] interesting artifacts. And among those [65:10] artifacts were the bones of giants [65:11] according to the newspaper reports. Now [65:13] >> see if you can find [65:15] >> there's a lot of them from the 1800s. [65:19] >> Yeah. I mean 10 ft high. 1872. [65:22] >> Yes. [65:22] >> Yeah. Especially in the in the latter [65:24] part of the 1800s. [65:25] >> How tall was it, Jimmy? [65:26] >> I mean, it's just it's a [65:27] >> giant over 10 feet high according to [65:29] Lewis and Richard Collins history [65:31] history of Kentucky. [65:34] >> Now, the the contention is, of course, [65:36] that that these are wildly exaggerated [65:39] and that the newspapers were engaging in [65:42] in hyperbole. [65:44] And that's true to some extent. I have [65:45] no problem with that. I think [65:47] >> hoaxes. I've brought this up. [65:48] >> Some of them were hoaxes. A whole lot of [65:50] hoaxes out there. [65:51] >> Sure. Some of them are hoaxes and they [65:52] and then you know these are the [65:53] periodicals of the United States at the [65:54] time were very competitive. [65:56] >> What is that photo? Is that [ __ ] [65:57] That far-left photo? [65:58] >> Yeah. [65:59] >> Now now that far left one [66:01] >> that one was actually that's a disputed [66:04] one. Um some people believe that that [66:06] one is in fact um was proven a hoax. [66:08] Other people think there might be a [66:09] conspiracy that in fact it wasn't a hoax [66:12] because it was actually on display for a [66:13] while. Um I don't I don't know. I don't [66:16] think there's any way to know but um so [66:20] many articles during that time were [66:23] discussing these astounding dis [66:26] discoveries of the bones of giants and [66:28] mountains. In fact, um I don't know if [66:31] you're aware, but even it it appears [66:33] that even Abraham Lincoln references [66:35] this in some lecture notes. He was [66:37] waxing poetically in some lecture notes [66:40] about Niagara Falls. And he says in [66:42] those notes, you can still read them [66:43] today. You can pull them up and read [66:44] them now. [66:45] He says, "The the eyes of that extinct [66:48] species of giants whose bones fill the [66:51] mounds of America have gazed upon [66:53] Niagara as ours do now." Those are from [66:56] Lincoln's lecture notes. [66:57] >> Really? [66:57] >> I believe it's 1845, the date of those [66:59] notes. [67:00] >> Oh, I got to read that. [67:01] >> And now, now here's the contention. [67:02] Okay, this is interesting because here's [67:04] the contention. [67:05] >> Okay, [67:05] >> the contention is that he was talking [67:06] about mastadons and and um mammoths [67:10] megapona, [67:11] >> right? Um, that's what people say [67:13] because he does mention Macedon and and [67:16] and the mammoth later on in in the in [67:19] the lecture in the speech. However, what [67:23] they won't tell you is before he [67:24] mentions that, he's talking he's in a [67:26] biblical context [67:28] and he's talking about he references [67:31] uh Jesus and Moses and Adam right before [67:35] he references the giants whose bones are [67:37] found in the mounds of America. See, so [67:41] the eyes of that species of extinct [67:43] giants whose bones filled the mounds of [67:45] America have gazed upon Niagara as ours [67:48] do now. Contemporary with the whole race [67:51] of men older than the first man. Niagara [67:56] as strong and fresh to today as 10,000 [67:59] years ago. The mammoth and Macedon now [68:02] so long dead that fragments of their [68:05] monstrous bones alone testify that they [68:08] ever lived have gazed upon gazed on [68:11] Niagara [68:12] in that long long time never still for a [68:15] single moment never dried never froze [68:17] never slept never rested that seems like [68:19] he's talking about mastadons it very [68:22] well he very well could be [68:23] >> talking about the thousands of miles of [68:25] water that they all would have seen [68:28] >> well he could be talking about mastadons [68:30] and mammoth. But look what he references [68:31] before he gets to the giants. Christ and [68:33] Moses. [68:34] >> Where's that? [68:34] >> And Adam. [68:35] >> He says there's still more. It calls up [68:37] an indefinite past. When Columbus first [68:39] sought this continent, when Christ [68:40] suffered on the cross, when Moses led [68:42] Israel through the Red Sea, nay, even [68:44] when Adam was made [68:46] >> and he's talking in a, you know, [68:48] >> right? So here he's invisible. [68:49] >> Came from the hand of his maker. And as [68:52] now Niagara was roaring here, the eyes [68:55] of that species of extinct giants whose [68:57] bones filled the mounds of America. [68:59] That's what's weird. Now listen, [69:01] >> the bones filled the mounds of America. [69:03] >> So here's the question. Did [69:06] were the mounds of America filled with [69:08] the bones of Macedons and and giant [69:10] sloths? And [69:11] >> no, [69:11] >> no, they weren't. Now, there have been [69:14] some fragments of bones from mammoths [69:16] and mastadons found in the mountains. [69:18] That's true. They were they looked to be [69:21] um ritual pieces that people were buried [69:24] with that were used for ceremonial [69:26] purposes or something like that. Maybe [69:28] some of them were carved ornately, but [69:30] like people weren't digging up the [69:32] skeletons of giant sloths and mastadons [69:34] and mammoths in the mounds routinely. [69:36] That was it was very rare, [69:37] >> right? But it seems like if you found [69:40] dead giants in the mounds that it would [69:43] be more specific, you would talk about [69:45] it more than just that. I don't know. [69:48] >> I don't know either. [69:49] >> The reference is is is ambiguous. So, [69:51] we're left to wonder, is he talking [69:53] about dead giants [69:55] >> in the biblical context, which he's [69:57] clearly in a biblical context before he [69:59] gets there, or is he talking about [70:01] Macedons? [70:02] >> And the issue is that there are giants [70:03] in the Bible. [70:04] >> And also that when he wrote when he [70:06] pinned this these lecture notes, there [70:08] were newspaper articles circulating in [70:10] the United States announcing the [70:12] discovery of the bones of giants in the [70:14] mountains. [70:14] >> Right. So, it's a it's a it's it's up [70:17] for debate. I don't know the answer. [70:19] >> There's got to be somebody who works at [70:21] the Smithsonian [70:22] that is sick of this. [70:25] >> Yeah. [70:25] >> There's got to be someone. We need that [70:27] guy. [70:27] >> There's got to be some whistleblower [70:29] >> that just take your [ __ ] camera [70:32] phone, [laughter] [70:34] >> get down there and film something, man. [70:37] It just it seems like if there really [70:40] are [70:41] some remnants of some of these things [70:46] and then the thing that's interesting is [70:48] you know what is the uh museum that John [70:53] Reeves has issue with [70:56] >> the National American History Museum. I [70:58] think I don't it's I know it's in [71:01] Manhattan. I don't [71:03] >> So my friend John Reeves are you aware [71:05] of him? He owns the the boneyard in [71:08] Alaska. [71:09] >> No. [71:09] >> Okay. [71:10] >> So, this this area of Ala John's a minor [71:13] and uh he Museum of Natural History. So, [71:17] he's a minor and he bought this land in [71:21] um Alaska and they're doing gold mining [71:23] and they're blasting into the perafrost [71:26] with hoses and they have found an [71:28] enormous amount of mammoths. [71:31] >> Yeah. [71:32] um cave bears, animals that weren't even [71:35] supposed to be living in Alaska at the [71:37] time. So now they have to like [71:38] reformulate their idea of what the [71:41] population of this this these lands were [71:44] at this time, but also a layer of like [71:48] dark carbon that indicates there there [71:50] was some sort of an event. All of this [71:52] is sub 10,000 years ago. So he's finding [71:55] I mean he has warehouses and this is [71:58] like fully go to the boneyard Instagram [72:01] please. [72:02] >> He he has warehouses of this stuff that [72:05] he's pulled out of the ground. He won't [72:07] let anyone take it because the Museum of [72:09] Natural History has some of this stuff [72:11] from the previous owners. They have tons [72:14] of it and they would not release it to [72:16] him even though it's his property. [72:18] >> So this is I mean he's finding enormous [72:22] mastadon skeletons. mammoth tusks. [72:25] >> I mean, they find tons of them. Tons. I [72:29] mean, he has warehouses. He built a [72:31] scientific research facility there, and [72:33] he's like, "People can come here and [72:35] study it, but I'm not letting any Post [72:36] Malone was there." Shout out to Post. [72:39] >> Uh, Mastadon teeth and bones. He [72:42] actually gave me this. This is a mammoth [72:45] tooth that they take some of these [72:47] things and they they carve artwork into [72:49] him, which to me, [72:50] >> very cool. [72:50] >> The artwork is kind of [ __ ] It's kind [72:52] of weird that they do that cuz it's [72:54] >> But this is a m This is like a petrified [72:56] mastadon tooth. [72:57] >> A mer rather. [72:59] >> Wow. That is really cool. [73:01] >> Yeah. Amazing. [73:03] Yeah. So this is all from his property. [73:06] So I mean [73:06] >> So why why is there such a distribution [73:08] of uh megapona bones there? His belief [73:12] is that there was some sort of a mass [73:14] extinction event that happened [73:17] whatever year it was, you know, that [73:19] that coincides with the younger dry [73:21] impact theory. And he and when 11,000 BC [73:25] >> Yeah. And when he's had some of these [73:26] things tested and dated, they do they're [73:28] they're post they're around this time. [73:32] And he thinks that there was some sort [73:34] of a mass extinction event and the [73:36] flooding led them all to be washed away [73:40] into this one very particular area [73:42] because it's a a deep concentration of [73:44] these bones. Too many that seem to have [73:47] died around the same time and all [73:49] preserved. So it seems like because [73:51] they're preserved in the perafrost that [73:53] this is something that happened this [73:56] enormous event. the bodies are washed [73:58] down into this one area and because of [74:00] the landscape because the contours of [74:02] the land they [74:04] >> they they're collected into this one [74:06] area. Yeah. And it's not a big place. I [74:08] think it's four to six acres that he's [74:10] pulling most of these things out of. And [74:11] there's several other places that he's [74:13] now finding things in as well. [74:16] >> You know, I find really fascinating are [74:18] the the specimens that they find of [74:20] mammoth and mastadon that are frozen [74:22] solid with chewing food. [74:25] >> Yeah. With broken legs. sometimes where [74:28] it's like there's some sort of an [74:29] impact, some massive shock wave that [74:32] kills them all instantly. [74:34] >> Yeah. [74:35] >> Instantly freezes them. [74:36] >> Yeah. [74:36] >> And I think one of the hypotheses that [74:38] I've heard is that, you know, you had [74:42] referencing the younger dus impact [74:44] event. You had a potentially a comet or [74:47] comets that were ripping through the [74:49] atmosphere at such high rates of speed [74:50] that they were pulling in the vacuum of [74:52] space that that sub-zero temperature air [74:55] and like blasting it down on the earth. [74:58] >> Yes. [74:58] >> And that that air was was was so cold it [75:00] would instantly freeze whatever was in [75:02] its path, you know, as these comets are [75:04] breaking through the atmosphere. I don't [75:06] know if that's true, but it's it's very [75:07] difficult to explain how you can how you [75:09] can flash freeze something like that, [75:11] right? And then in other parts of the [75:13] earth you have apparent biomass burning. [75:16] So you have you have mastadons over here [75:18] freezing right solid. You have other [75:20] megapon over here that were clearly [75:22] swept up in a flood. You have other [75:24] megapon and other kinds of extinct [75:26] plants and stuff that have evidence of [75:28] burning biomass burning. So it's like [75:31] some sort of um uh absolutely [75:34] unimaginable cataclysm. [75:37] >> Yes. that that struck planet earth at [75:39] some time circ 11,000 BC [75:42] >> and it seems like there's a lot of [75:44] physical evidence in terms of aridium [75:46] and soil samples and it seems it's very [75:49] common in space very rare on earth [75:51] layers of aridium and then the dark [75:54] carbon layers of burnt material it seems [75:56] there was incredible fire so we were [75:59] probably hit by asteroids they also find [76:02] that nuclear glass the same stuff that [76:04] they found during the Trinity explosion [76:06] they find little particle of that [76:08] everywhere. That seems to indicate a a [76:09] huge impact [76:11] >> that happened. And he, you know, this is [76:13] what Randall Carlson also believes the [76:15] same timeline was what caused the [76:18] melting of the ice layer over North [76:20] America and created the Great Lakes. [76:22] >> Yeah. [76:23] >> And caused the massive flooding and the [76:25] the the land features that you see from [76:28] space. If you look down from satellite [76:31] imagery, it clearly looks like there was [76:33] just immense amounts of water that [76:35] washed over the land. Mhm. Yeah. And [76:38] yeah, Randall talks a lot about the uh [76:40] the the the impact of those comets on [76:43] the ice sheets, the Laurentide ice [76:44] sheet, for example, 2 miles thick. What [76:46] happens when you slam a comet into a [76:48] two-m thick ice sheet, [76:50] >> right? A comet the size of a city. [76:52] >> Yeah. You you superheat it. Then you [76:53] have all the ejecta coming off of it [76:56] >> and and landing in force and igniting [76:58] the forest. And of course, if you have [77:00] advanced civilizations at the time, [77:02] which I believe they did, you have a [77:04] mass extinction event where everything [77:06] gets annihilated. [77:07] >> Nothing left. There a few people survive [77:10] >> somewhere in the world and it takes [77:12] thousands of years for them to reinvent [77:13] civilization, [77:14] >> especially the civilizations living on [77:16] the in the coastal areas on the banks of [77:18] rivers where a lot of civilizations are, [77:19] right? [77:20] >> They're gone, [77:20] >> right? [77:21] >> I mean, they're gone. [77:22] >> They're gone. And not only that, the the [77:24] level of the ocean rises significantly. [77:27] >> And that's all documented fact, [77:29] historically accepted. Everyone, you [77:31] know, geologists, archaeologist, [77:34] everyone accepts that that this is [77:36] something that happened. And then that [77:37] the ice sheets in North America were a [77:40] mile, two miles high, 3/4 of the entire [77:43] continent covered with ice. [77:45] >> Yeah. recently in terms of like the [77:48] earth when you're you're going back [77:50] 11,000 12,000 years ago that's not a [77:52] long time ago [77:53] >> and this whole thing covered in ice and [77:56] then you also have the almost [77:58] instantaneous extinction of 65% of all [78:00] North American megapana which is kind of [78:03] crazy kind of crazy like what caused [78:05] that [78:06] >> yeah which some anthropologists still [78:08] maintain today that that that that's [78:10] because the the indigenous people killed [78:12] them they hunted them into extinction [78:15] >> it's absolely absurd [78:16] >> with adelattles. [78:17] >> It's absolutely absurd. [78:19] >> Spears and adeladals. I mean, we don't [78:21] even know if they had bows and arrows [78:22] yet, [78:22] >> right? It's just [78:25] clearly something catastrophic [78:28] >> happened [78:28] >> in the in the relatively recent past. [78:30] >> Yes. And this is, as I said, it's the [78:32] same with giants. You know, you have [78:34] this [78:34] >> ubiquitous testimony about giants. Well, [78:37] concurrent with that, you have this [78:38] ubiquitous testimony about cataclysm. [78:40] Have you seen the work that there's this [78:42] Italian guy I'll send you the article [78:44] Jamie. There's this Italian guy that is [78:47] uh proposing that the um I'll send it to [78:51] you Jamie that there's uh a way of [78:55] measuring the erosion uh on the outside [78:59] of the pyramids that he believes [79:01] indicates they are at least 10,000 years [79:04] older than we believe so far. I'll send [79:07] this to you Jamie. [79:12] here. Um, but this is, you know, [79:15] obviously disputed because they're [79:17] 10,000 years older, [79:18] >> super controversial at least. He's he's [79:21] talking about the erosion on the granite [79:23] and that there's by studying erosion and [79:27] by studying the uh timeline of uh [79:31] erosion and this is something that uh [79:33] Ben Van Kirkwick has talked about when [79:35] you look at the older uh nonupdated [79:39] versions of some of the sites in Egypt [79:42] where it's clear that there was original [79:44] stone and then there was stone that was [79:45] built on top of that [79:46] >> article that shows some better. [79:48] >> Okay, here's so here's the article. So [79:49] the the heading of the article, please. [79:52] So it says, "Could the Great Pyramid be [79:53] far older than we thought? A new study [79:55] says yes." And if you go to it down [79:58] there, what he's saying is, so this is [80:00] from January of 2026. Go up a little [80:03] bit. Right there. Make it bigger. A [80:06] paper released in January 2026, Italian [80:08] engineer Alberto Donini presents an [80:11] unconvent unconventional dating approach [80:13] known as the relative erosion method, [80:15] which he argues may challenge the long [80:17] accepted chronology placed in the [80:19] construction of the pyramid of Kufu [80:21] around 2560 [80:22] BC. According to Donini's calculations, [80:26] erosion patterns at the pyramid's base [80:27] could suggest a construction date tens [80:29] of thousands of years earlier, [80:31] potentially as far back as the late [80:34] Paleolithic period. The claim, if [80:37] substantiated, would have farreaching [80:39] implications for the history of ancient [80:40] Egypt and early civilization. Yet, it [80:42] also raises immediate questions about [80:44] methodology, assumptions, and how such [80:46] results could be interpreted within [80:48] archaeological science. But I don't [80:50] think archaeology is a science. I I I [80:52] just I think what archaeology is is [80:54] they're looking at stuff and they're [80:56] guessing and they're using science and [80:58] then they're also they have timelines [81:00] that they establish that they're very [81:02] reluctant to let go of. [81:03] >> Yeah. [81:04] >> And we've seen this with the dating of [81:06] Gobecley. We've seen this with the [81:09] erosion around the the temple of the [81:12] Sphinx. They're very reluctant [81:14] >> while simultaneously disregarding the [81:18] ubiquitous testimony of our ancient [81:20] antecedants who say that their ancestors [81:23] were far greater than them. Look at this [81:25] right here. Other points yield far [81:27] higher values. Several measurements [81:29] suggest erosion equivalent to 20,000 to [81:32] more than 40,000 years of exposure. [81:35] While the arithmetic mean of all 12 [81:38] points produces a result of [81:40] approximately 24,900 [81:42] years before present corresponding to [81:45] roughly 22,900 [81:46] BC. I mean, holy [ __ ] if that's [81:50] accurate. [81:50] >> Yeah. [81:51] >> And then you have also Filipo Bjundi's [81:54] work where they're looking the radio [81:56] tomography below the pyramids and they [81:58] have these structures that go 1.2 [82:00] kilometers down into the earth. [82:02] >> Yeah. Did you see my uh I did an [82:04] interview on um I made an appearance on [82:07] Pierce Morgan's show and Pierce had on [82:11] uh Hawi Zawas [82:13] and I didn't know that I was going to be [82:15] interacting with Hawi Zawasi [82:17] >> or sorry Zahiwas [82:18] >> Zahi Awas the other way around. I didn't [82:22] know that uh I was going to be [82:23] interacting with him. I was just told [82:25] that they wanted me to come on and talk [82:26] about pyramids and stuff. But then [82:29] >> Pier Pierce loves a good scramble. He he [82:31] loves [laughter] he loves the squabble. [82:33] >> So So he set me up like here's your [82:34] opportunity to say whatever you want. [82:36] You know, it was me and Jimmy Corsetti [82:37] and some other people. [82:39] >> Here's your opportunity to ask Zahi [82:41] whatever you want. And I'm thinking to [82:43] myself, I don't I don't really have [82:45] anything to ask this guy. But then it [82:46] occurred to me, I actually have me and [82:49] my team are in possession of some [82:50] state-of-the-art ground penetrating [82:52] radar technology that we use to great [82:54] effect in Peru. And so I'm thinking [82:56] about this discovery, this alleged these [82:58] alleged uh mega structures under the [83:00] pyramids, and I'm thinking, you know, it [83:03] wouldn't be that difficult. You don't [83:04] have to you don't have to detect them [83:06] all the way down. You just have to [83:08] verify that there's something there, [83:10] right? And so I posited this to Zahi [83:16] and, you know, told him, look, I've got [83:19] this equipment. Would you facilitate us [83:21] coming down there? and and and it's it's [83:23] it operates off of a drone platform. So, [83:26] you don't you don't have to drag it. [83:27] It's it's uh fly you can fly it around [83:30] the the pyramid. You don't have to touch [83:31] the pyramid. You can just fly it in the [83:33] vicinity of the pyramids and see if you [83:35] can detect something. I mean, there's [83:39] there's no there's you know, you would [83:40] do no injury to any sort of any [83:43] artifacts there. [snorts] and he seemed [83:45] like he was very open to the idea, you [83:47] know, on camera and said that basically [83:50] told peers, get your people in contact [83:52] with him so that you know, give him my [83:54] information so I can reach out to him. [83:56] Of course, that never happened. So, it [83:59] would not be that difficult to verify [84:01] that. And that's why I'm wondering why [84:03] you don't have to dig, [84:04] >> right? Why wouldn't you want as much [84:06] exploration at the most spectacular site [84:10] Yeah. that human beings have ever [84:12] erected on the face of the earth that [84:14] has a very controversial timeline. [84:16] >> That's right. [84:17] >> I mean, even the conventional timeline's [84:19] super controversial because like how the [84:21] [ __ ] did they do it? [84:22] >> Mhm. [84:22] >> Even if you just accept that it's 2500 [84:25] BC. Okay, great. How [84:28] >> I mean I I mean I don't know why it [84:30] being older is more controversial cuz [84:33] it's still the same people, the same [84:35] >> it's human beings that lived a long time [84:38] ago. That's all we're talking about. But [84:40] why are they sticking to 2500 BC? It's [84:42] because that they've always said that [84:44] they know. They've always said with [84:46] great certainty and and from a position [84:49] of authority that this is what we know. [84:51] We know Kufu did this. We know this guy [84:53] did this. [84:54] >> But you don't really know. And there's [84:56] also incredible amount of evidence that [84:58] these guys wrote their name on [85:00] everything. When they were in power, [85:03] they like to put their names on [85:05] everything [85:05] >> or recarve the head of the Sphinx. [85:07] >> Yeah. Well, that's definitely true. [85:09] >> Yeah, [85:09] >> it's definitely different. There's some [85:11] controversy about that as well because [85:13] there's layers of stone that have [85:14] different gradients like different [85:15] hardness [85:16] >> and they're different types of stone and [85:19] the face there. What the the controversy [85:22] is that the face is like a harder stone [85:24] and it wouldn't erode as quickly. [85:27] Problem with that is like the stuff [85:28] that's eroded for a long period in [85:32] history was covered in sand. [85:33] >> Mh. [85:34] >> And we know that for a fact. show that [85:35] there was no erosion going on during [85:37] that period of time yet it's massively [85:39] more eroded than the face. [85:40] >> Well, I think that one of the [85:41] fundamental problems that we have as [85:44] wester as modern westerners looking at [85:46] this stuff is we have an inversion of [85:48] the timeline of history. [85:50] When we look at the timeline of history, [85:53] we generally view our antecedants as [85:56] like cavemen. [85:58] >> Yes. [85:58] >> These are are very ignorant people. [86:00] They're basically, you know, chimpanzees [86:02] with with better brains. And as we [86:05] progress through the timeline of [86:06] history, we're becoming increasingly [86:08] more intelligent, increasingly more [86:09] incap capable of building and and of of [86:13] building these monuments and technology [86:14] and so forth. So we see ourselves as the [86:16] pinnacle of the human species. Like [86:20] we're the smartest, we're the greatest. [86:22] That's not the way that the ancients [86:24] viewed the anti-dolivian world. That's [86:26] not the way that they viewed their their [86:27] antecedants. They see the for them it [86:30] was the inverse. For them, they were [86:33] always trying to recover the glory of [86:37] the people that had come before them, [86:38] the majesty of the civilization that had [86:41] come before them. Uh so when they look [86:43] back down the timeline of history, [86:47] they're the dummies. And the further you [86:49] go back, the more extraordinary people [86:51] are [86:52] >> cuz they were closer to it, right? And [86:54] they all have a they all have a myth of [86:56] the flood of the antibian world in [87:00] general, you know? and they they lived [87:01] in a timeline that was closer to that [87:03] and more accepted because they probably [87:06] had a knowledge an understanding at [87:08] least the earliest ones that they didn't [87:10] make this and so they probably passed [87:13] that down. [87:14] >> Yeah. Well, they I think they inherited [87:16] traditions from their ancestors about [87:18] these things. Um you know I mean you [87:20] have you have [snorts] this this idea of [87:23] a golden age [87:25] uh among the ancients. Golden age [87:27] meaning there was a time on earth. The [87:29] the the Greeks coined that particular [87:31] phrase the golden age. The Egyptians the [87:33] ancient Egyptians called it zeppy the [87:35] first time. There was a time on earth [87:37] when the gods descended to the earth and [87:40] cohabited with human species and to some [87:43] extent coingled with the human species [87:46] and that it was during this time that [87:49] that knowledge was transferred and that [87:52] great cities were built. This is of [87:54] course this is where the the myth of [87:55] Atlantis falls into this category. [87:58] And and then their world was suddenly [88:02] and catastrophically destroyed. [88:06] And what we've been doing since that [88:08] destruction, in the mind of the agents, [88:10] what they've been doing since that [88:11] destruction was attempting to rebuild, [88:13] to rediscover the lost knowledge from [88:15] that age, to recover it and to try and [88:21] try and emulate their their superior [88:25] ancestors. That's what you see [88:27] everywhere everywhere around the world. [88:29] Doesn't matter if you're in Egypt or if [88:31] you're in Peru, you see the same sort of [88:32] thing. Um, same thing applies by the way [88:36] for the megaliths in Peru. I don't know [88:39] if you have you been to Peru. [88:40] >> No. [88:41] >> Some of the most astounding megaliths [88:43] that you'll see anywhere in the world. [88:44] Um, [88:46] I referenced earlier the walls of [88:47] Sakaiwan. Absolutely phenomenal [88:51] cyclopian architecture. And of course, [88:53] the construction of those of those walls [88:55] is attributed to the Inca. [88:58] So if you ask archaeologists in Peru who [89:01] built Sakaiwaman, who built Machu [89:04] Picchu, who built Ojantai Tambbo, it's [89:06] always going to be the same answer. The [89:07] Inca, the Inca built it. Now the problem [89:11] is there's no record of the Inca [89:13] building those walls. And if you ask the [89:16] the the ancient Ketchra people, uh if [89:20] you ask the actually the Ketra people, [89:22] the the Ketra people who continue in [89:23] their ancient traditions, the ones who [89:25] are there today, and they still wear [89:27] their um their typical [89:31] uh vestments and and they still speak [89:33] Ketwa. If you talk to them and you ask [89:36] them who built the walls of Sakaiwan, [89:41] specifically Sakaiwan, they'll tell you [89:42] a race of giants. This goes back to [89:44] those, you know, our progenitors, the [89:46] giants. The giants built Sakaiwam. But [89:48] if you go up to um if you go up to Titti [89:52] Titikaka, Lake Tikaka, and you you ask [89:55] the imata people who built Tiwanaku, [89:58] which is on the other side of Lake [90:00] Tittikaka in Bolivia, who built those [90:02] megalithic edififices? The giants are [90:05] progenitors. That's what they'll tell [90:07] you. So, and I don't necessarily think [90:09] that giants built all this stuff. I [90:11] don't necessarily think that at all. I [90:12] just think that there's everyone is [90:15] acknowledging that that something [90:16] extraordinary happened in the past that [90:20] that the our anticedants were much more [90:23] impressive than we've given them credit [90:24] for. I mean our anti-dolivian [90:26] anticcedants [90:27] and that um that in many cases [90:32] like you said there's no inscriptions on [90:33] megalithic stuff anywhere. You go to [90:36] Machu Machu Picchu and it's apparent [90:39] that in Sakaiwama, Machu Picchu, Jante [90:41] Tambbo and other places in Peru, it's [90:43] apparent that the Inca certainly built [90:46] on top. I mean, they took advantage of [90:48] these megalithic foundations, right? [90:49] Anyone would. I mean, if you're going to [90:50] build a edifice, you would you would use [90:53] the superior foundations here, massive [90:55] stones, and you'd build on top. And you [90:57] try to you try to emulate that style of [90:59] building because it's anti-seismic for [91:00] one thing. So in Machu Picchu, it's [91:04] evident to me and I think anybody who [91:06] walks walks around that complex [91:10] you can see and and we have to keep in [91:12] mind that much of Machu Picchu today is [91:14] a reconstruction. It's an archaeological [91:16] reconstruction except for the [91:17] foundations. We have pictures from Hyram [91:19] Bingum, [91:21] original pictures in black and white of [91:22] what Machu Picchu looked like when he [91:24] discovered it accidentally. [91:27] And what's there? The megalithic [91:30] foundations are there. That's what's [91:31] there, the megalithic foundations and [91:34] and you see and the the Inca built on [91:37] top of those foundations and that's what [91:39] a lot of the archaeological [91:40] reconstruction today reflects. So if you [91:44] walk around in Machu Picchu, I remember [91:46] I've been there several times filming [91:47] and doing different things and and I [91:49] remember one time I was I was with my [91:50] colleague Anel P. Rambla, we had a we [91:52] had a a guide with us and um he was an [91:56] older gentleman, very very knowledgeable [91:58] and um he was one of their official [91:59] guides in Machu Picchu and we're walking [92:03] around and he's telling us different [92:04] things about the Inca and how they did [92:06] certain things and certainly the Inca [92:07] built a lot up there. There's no [92:08] question about it. The Inca were [92:09] impressive. Don't not taking anything [92:11] away from the Inca. But if you you look [92:14] at some of the edififices at Machu [92:16] Picchu, you can see these magnificent [92:18] megalithic foundations, big stones, [92:20] polygonal, fit together so tightly you [92:23] couldn't pass a butter knife between the [92:24] joints. And then you have on top what [92:27] sometimes people describe as Inca slop [92:29] on top where it's like they kind of [92:31] they're kind of trying to match the [92:33] style of below, but it's it's not as [92:35] precise. It's not as fine. And you can [92:37] see the clear delineation clear [92:39] delineation between the megalithic and [92:42] then what the incor are doing and then [92:43] also the archaeological reconstruction. [92:46] And I remember asking this guide of [92:48] ours. [snorts] We I pointed across the [92:50] courtyard to some this beautiful this [92:53] exquisite polygonal found foundational [92:55] wall with just sort of crude inca stuff [92:58] on top. And I said, "Why are there two [93:02] different styles [93:04] here? Why do you see this this these [93:07] large megalithic blocks fit together so [93:09] precisely and then you have this other [93:11] style [93:12] and you know keeping in mind the [93:15] archaeological reconstruction but there [93:16] there was there there was enough of the [93:18] site there that they could model what [93:20] they did based on what the Inca had done [93:22] and he said [93:24] because they like the way it looked [93:27] that was the answer they liked the way [93:30] it looked and I said you you can't [93:33] really believe that I [93:34] You're not an idiot, right? They didn't [93:37] do that because they liked the way it [93:39] looked. The reason why there's an [93:40] inferior mode of building on top of [93:43] those megalith megalithic foundations is [93:45] because they didn't know how to do that. [93:47] They did the best they could. And they [93:49] were very good, right? Attempting to [93:50] adopt the cyclopian style. They were [93:52] good, the Inca, [93:54] but the only reason you would do that, [93:57] the only reason you would put inferior [93:59] architecture on top of s superior [94:01] foundations is because you don't know [94:02] how to do that. Yeah. Well, it's also [94:05] the just the sheer size of these blocks. [94:09] It it just gives you so many questions [94:13] because it's it's not like you could [94:16] recreate that with whatever the Inca [94:18] had. That's what's confusing. In order [94:21] to move those stones into position and [94:23] then put them and construct them in a [94:26] way that it appears like they've been [94:28] melted into place. [94:29] >> Yeah. You're you're like how how are you [94:32] moving them? How are you placing them? [94:34] What are you using? [94:34] >> You should go to Ojante Tambbo. Okay, so [94:36] you go to Ojanti Tambbo which is in [94:38] between Cusco and Machu Picchu. You have [94:41] to go to Ojante Tomo to get on the train [94:43] to go up to Machu Picchu. It's the only [94:44] way to get there. And Ojanta Tambbo has [94:48] some of the most exquisite megalithic [94:50] architecture on planet Earth. It is so [94:53] beautiful the way that they were able to [94:55] and it's it's large megalithic blocks [94:57] and there's two different styles [94:58] represented there. You have the [95:00] polygonal like at the walls of Saka [95:01] Woman in Peru and then you have the [95:04] interlocking blocks like at Tiwanaku. [95:07] Both of those styles are there and and [95:09] there's this one spot at at Ojanta Tamo [95:12] that I love to take people to because [95:13] you're going up the stairs and and the [95:17] wall curves. As you're going up the [95:19] stairs, the wall curves. Now, if you and [95:21] I were building a wall today, even if we [95:24] were like the best, we were the best [95:26] masons in the world and we're building a [95:27] wall for, I don't know, for for some [95:30] billionaire in his house, we would we [95:33] would interlock the blocks in the corner [95:35] like everyone does everywhere, right? Or [95:37] if it's cement, you could take cement [95:39] because it's cement is pliable and you [95:41] could make whatever shape you want. But [95:42] if it's blocks, you're going to [95:43] interlock the blocks into that corner or [95:45] do something like that. You know what [95:46] they did at Ojante Tambbo? They they [95:49] curved the stone into the wall. They [95:53] curved the stone. So they took the [95:54] stone. [95:54] >> There images of that that we can look [95:55] at. [95:55] >> Yeah, you can pull up stones like that. [95:57] And and they they cut the stone so that [95:59] it curved into the corner. Like who [96:02] would do that? That is so intricate. [96:04] That is so difficult. [96:06] >> And by what technology? [96:08] >> By what technology? But here's the [96:09] interesting thing. You find that same [96:11] the same fingerprints of these builders [96:13] all over the world. You find the same [96:15] thing in in Egypt. They curved stones. [96:18] Some of those stones are curved into the [96:20] corners and other places where there's [96:22] megalithic constructions. I mean, these [96:24] guys there is a there is like a [96:26] ubiquitous knowledge of masonry in the [96:29] world. The fingerprint is everywhere. [96:32] Everywhere you go. And it's interesting [96:33] because one of the things I was [96:37] trying to [96:39] trying to to to convince this this guide [96:41] of ours at Machu Picchu this one time of [96:43] was look, here's a problem. You guys [96:45] come over to Machu Picchu. [96:46] >> So, here it is. So yeah, that's that's [96:48] Sakaiwan. [96:49] >> Is that what you're talking about [96:50] though? No, [96:50] >> curved stone. [96:51] >> No, I'm talking about a stone that's [96:52] curved. See that there where it says [96:54] Inca stonework? [96:57] >> Uh in the middle. Yeah. [96:58] >> Yeah. Sakaiwaman. They'll take a a large [97:00] stone. That one looks like it's curved [97:02] too in the wall, but that's not a very [97:03] large stone. Sakai will take a large [97:04] stone and they'll curve it into the [97:06] wall. Um [97:09] it's I don't see Sakai in any of those. [97:11] You have to type I'm I'm sorry, not [97:12] Sakai. Oji Tambbo. Ojantai Tambbo. [97:15] >> How do you spell it? O L A N T. O L L A [97:19] N T. [97:20] >> A Y. [97:22] >> Say again. [97:22] >> T A M B O. [97:23] >> O L [97:24] >> O L L A N T. [97:26] >> Yeah, it's not [97:27] >> a Y [97:28] >> A N T [97:29] >> A Y [97:30] >> A Y [97:31] >> T A M B O. [97:34] >> Never going to guess that. [97:35] >> Whoa. [97:35] >> That's [laughter] That's Ojante Tambbo. [97:37] [sighs] [97:38] >> I'm looking for that curved uh [97:40] >> What is the nubs? What are the nubs? [97:43] >> I don't know. There's another [97:44] fingerprint of this. all over the world [97:46] everywhere. [97:48] >> No one really knows. I mean, there's a [97:49] lot of interesting theories out there, [97:50] but I think at the end of the day, [97:52] nobody has any idea what the heck those [97:54] nubs are. [97:55] >> Those things are so spectacular. Look at [97:57] that. [97:57] >> Look at the wall. Look at the Look at [97:58] the wall right there at Ojante Tambbo. [98:02] >> Make that look. [98:03] >> Look how exquisite that is. [98:04] >> That's nuts. [98:05] >> I mean, it is just absolutely [98:07] astonishing. [98:08] >> And the weight. [98:10] weight of these things and the fact that [98:12] they're they're carved and placed in a [98:15] way that would absorb the energy of [98:17] earthquakes. [98:18] >> Yes, they're anti-seismic. [98:20] >> Yeah, [98:20] >> they're anti-seismic. That's why they do [98:22] it that way, [98:23] >> which is [98:24] >> now I want you technology. [98:25] >> Think about this. Okay, so you are you [98:28] are with Francisco Pisaro. You're a [98:32] concistador [98:33] in the 1533 [98:35] or 1532 or 1534. I can't remember [98:38] exactly when he landed. and you're [98:40] walking through Peru [98:42] and you you you see this you see this [98:45] kind of architecture as you're [98:47] conquering Peru and you overthrow the [98:49] Inca and then you go to build which they [98:52] did they overthrow the Inca the capital [98:54] city of Cusco they go to build their [98:56] cathedrals [98:58] they built lots of cathedrals and [98:59] palaces for themselves right so you have [99:01] the Inca palaces and cathedrals [99:04] um they took the blocks from Sakaiwaman [99:07] they took the upper layer blocks and [99:09] they use them to build their cathedral. [99:11] Okay, there's a couple cathedrals [99:13] downtown Cusco that were built with the [99:14] blocks from Sakaiwan. [99:16] They didn't build it like that. They [99:18] didn't build their cathedrals like that. [99:20] They took those blocks and they just put [99:21] them together with mortar like they do [99:23] in Europe. So, here's a question that I [99:25] always ask people who think that, you [99:26] know, the Inca were were doing that. If [99:29] you were an architect at that time, why [99:31] in the world wouldn't you have forced [99:34] the Inca to teach you that style [99:36] >> so that you could build your cathe? I [99:38] mean, you would be the greatest [99:39] architect in the world, right? [99:41] >> Right. [99:41] >> You could build you could build the most [99:43] magnificent cathedrals in the world in [99:46] the cyclopian style if you understood [99:49] how they did it. So, if the Inca were [99:51] the ones who built it, why didn't they [99:53] force the Inca to teach them how to [99:55] build it? [99:55] >> Just look at just look at that. That is [99:57] so crazy. [99:58] >> That's clearly sanded down, right? [100:02] >> Well, those are in the process. That's [100:03] Ojante Tombo. That's the temple of the [100:05] sun at the summit. I'm just looks the [100:08] faces of it look so smooth. [100:10] >> That's Ojonti. That's Ojantei Tambbo. [100:12] And this was in the process of being [100:14] constructed at the top when it halted. [100:17] You can see the blocks there. Those [100:19] blocks that you were just looking at [100:20] were something happened. [100:22] >> Yes. Those blocks were in the process of [100:24] being transported [100:25] and they were being they were being [100:27] worked right there. They were being [100:30] prepped to be incorporated into the [100:31] walls. Um, [100:34] and it just halted. [100:37] And the conventional explanation is that [100:39] it halted because the Spanish arrived. [100:40] That's what halted the work. But, but I [100:44] think what halted the work was [100:45] cataclysm. [100:47] Personally, I think that's what halted [100:49] the work. Something like a Younger D's [100:51] impact. [100:52] >> What's that, Jimmy? [100:53] >> Is that See, right here, it looks like [100:54] the face of the wall, you know, like it [100:56] looks like it's all uniform and fits [100:58] together, right? But if that right here [101:00] is part of [101:01] >> Yeah. filler in the backing. [101:02] >> Then that's like [101:03] >> Yeah, they have filler in the backing. [101:04] Some of them facade. [101:05] >> Yeah, some of them the blocks are it's [101:07] just gigantic blocks. Others it's like [101:09] the facade is exquisite and [101:11] >> like what we have here that brick. You [101:12] know that brick in the back the [101:14] background used to just be brick at the [101:15] other studio. [101:16] >> Uhhuh. [101:16] >> Kind of like that. [101:18] >> Right. Right. I know what you're saying. [101:19] Yeah. But except these are enormous. [101:21] >> Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Or I don't [101:24] know. [101:24] >> Yeah. I mean [101:25] >> hardened in place and sanded down or [101:27] >> Oh, there was a point of the guy [101:28] standing. There was a picture of the guy [101:29] standing in the corner. There was a guy [101:31] standing in the corner that I was [101:32] referencing earlier. [101:34] >> You just had There it is. Right there. [101:35] That guy. [101:35] >> No, the one below it. [101:37] >> I don't think you can see the corner [101:38] very well. [101:38] >> That right there. The middle. [101:39] >> You see the guy in the blue standing [101:40] there? [101:41] >> Yeah. Yeah. Right there. [101:43] >> Behind him. There's a You can see how [101:44] the stone below him. It's curved into [101:46] the corner. That's not a separate stone. [101:48] That's It's literally curved into that [101:50] corner. [101:52] >> It's It's just so weird. The nubs are [101:56] weird. [101:56] >> They are weird. [101:57] >> And it's weird that they occur all over [101:58] the world. And it's like it speaks [102:00] almost to like is that how they carried [102:03] them and placed them? Is that a part of [102:06] the construction? Is that something [102:09] about how they made them that they left [102:11] these nubs? Like what is what are the [102:13] nubs? [102:13] >> No one has any idea what the nubs are. [102:15] >> That seems so weird that we have no [102:17] answer to a feature that occurs over and [102:20] over again in all this magic [102:22] architecture [102:23] >> all over the world. [102:26] Yeah, [102:27] >> they keep showing these three. Those [102:29] they kind of look like the nubs, but [102:30] they look way different than [102:32] >> Yeah, they're a lot rougher. See those? [102:33] See those smaller pieces of stone there [102:35] in between the large blocks. [102:37] >> That's an anti-seismic property. That's [102:39] a technology that they use so that the [102:40] rocks can shift and move and the and and [102:43] >> not crumble. That's [102:45] >> it's ingenious. And like I said, you [102:48] have two different styles here. at [102:49] Ojante Tambbo you have you have the [102:51] polygonal [102:52] and then you have the the interlocking [102:54] rectangular those are two different [102:56] styles in the same site that's one of [102:58] the things that makes Ojante Tambbo [102:59] fascinating and that rectangular [103:02] interlocking style comes from Tiwanaku [103:04] which is another [103:07] amazing megalithic site in Bolivia [103:09] what's interesting is when you combine [103:10] all these sites all over the world and [103:13] you have all these questions that are [103:15] very similar like how how did they do [103:18] this? Why? Why is this stuff the oldest [103:21] stuff? Why is this stuff the bottom [103:23] stuff? Why is the base of it the most [103:25] spectacular construction? And why does [103:27] it seem like more primitive stuff is on [103:29] top of that? [103:30] >> Cuz they like the way it looked, [103:31] [laughter] [103:31] >> right? Yeah. But it's [103:33] >> it's the same question over and over [103:35] again. And the the reluctance to propose [103:39] that perhaps the oldest stuff is more [103:42] complicated because the civilization was [103:44] more complex. [103:45] >> That's it. That's what they're unwilling [103:47] to they're unwilling to open up that [103:49] door. But that door is the only door [103:51] that makes any sense. [103:51] >> Yeah. Not only was the civilization [103:53] complex, the knowledge was universal. [103:56] That's a problem. [103:57] >> It is a problem. [103:58] >> The knowledge was universal [103:59] >> cuz that means you're talking about a [104:01] seafaring traveling civilization. [104:04] >> You're talking about something that's a [104:06] lot more impressive than cavemen. Right. [104:08] >> Right. So, [104:09] >> especially if this guy, this Italian guy [104:11] is right in terms of his because [104:14] >> 20,000 BC, we're we're supposed to be [104:18] just brutes. [104:18] >> Mhm. [104:19] >> Oh, yeah. Caveman [104:20] >> skinw wearing Yeah. We're wearing animal [104:23] skins and we have spears. [104:25] >> You're you're a chimpanzeee with a [104:27] better brain. Yeah. back then. Yeah. [104:28] >> And and and as I said before, you know, [104:31] you look at that kind of [104:33] >> um architecture and you and I were we to [104:37] encounter the Inca. Go back in time the [104:41] in the late 1500s. The Inca are still [104:45] around. The builders, the the alleged [104:46] builders of these monuments. I mean, [104:48] they were building Ojante Tambbo, right? [104:50] When you arrived, they quit building. [104:53] Why did the Spanish architects not [104:56] incorporate any of that right [104:58] >> into their buildings? [104:59] >> Why did they not learn the techniques? [105:01] >> That's superior technology. That's [105:02] anti-seismic. And the point is [105:04] illustrated because in Cusco they built [105:06] their cathedrals, right? They they [105:08] knocked down the the the the palaces of [105:10] the Inca and they they raised the [105:13] cathedrals in uh in Cusco. And guess [105:17] what happens? You get a big earthquake? [105:20] The cathedrals crumble to the ground [105:23] except for their megalithic foundations [105:25] which remain unmoved. Earthquake comes, [105:27] cathedrals fall, the walls of Sakaiwaman [105:30] stand. And it's happened various times [105:32] throughout history. [105:34] Who, what architect [105:37] would not have taken advantage of that [105:39] knowledge had it been available to them [105:41] during the time of the Inca? [105:43] >> Yeah. I mean, like I said, you could [105:45] build the most magnificent cathedrals on [105:47] planet Earth and you could make the Inca [105:48] build it for you. And now you can say [105:51] that the the Inca refused would have [105:54] refused to to to pass this knowledge on. [105:56] Okay, maybe. I mean, there was a there [105:58] was a society within the Inca, you know, [106:01] they were taught by the Grandes [106:02] Almaltas, they called them, who were the [106:05] the great teachers of the Inca nobility [106:06] and the keepers of the secrets and so [106:08] forth. They had the Inca didn't even [106:09] have a written language. They used [106:11] Kipus. Kipus was a it's a system of [106:14] ropes and knots of string and knots. [106:16] They didn't even have language. So [106:19] absolutely extraordinary and there is [106:21] nobody can give me an an adequate [106:23] explanation as to why such amazing [106:26] knowledge is just forgotten. [106:30] I mean would we forget how to build [106:32] computers? No. So so why would we just [106:36] forget how to build megaliths? [106:38] Why? That's not something you forget. [106:41] These things don't fall down in [106:42] earthquakes. That's something you pass [106:44] on carefully from one generation to the [106:46] next. Unless, like our ancient [106:48] antecedants tell us, there was a [106:50] cataclysm that rocked the earth and [106:54] eliminated the civilizations that were [106:56] inhabiting the earth. [106:58] That's to me that that that's the best [107:01] explanation. [107:02] >> Well, it's certainly the most logical [107:04] explanation if you weren't attached to a [107:06] timeline. If you didn't have this [107:08] timeline that these archaeologists [107:10] insist upon, then you would say, okay, [107:13] clearly we know that a cataclysm [107:15] occurred. Clearly, we know the young [107:17] impact theory is accepted. [107:19] >> And especially now, [107:21] >> so [107:22] >> becoming more so over time, [107:23] >> more likely [107:24] >> much more likely that there was [107:26] something going on that we don't totally [107:29] understand tens of thousands of years [107:31] ago. [107:33] >> Yeah. I mean, I think we would do very [107:35] well to listen to take serious the myths [107:39] and legends. [107:40] >> Well, it's also weird that like the [107:42] Aztecs, like I used to think that the [107:45] Aztecs created those temples and those [107:48] pyramids and then I found out fairly [107:51] recently that they never even claimed to [107:54] have [107:54] >> No, they say they found them and that [107:56] these were the birthplace of the gods. [107:59] >> Yes. See, that's what I was going to say [108:01] about uh Machu Picchu. So mach you know [108:03] what the name of Machu Picchu is not [108:04] Machu Picchu in Ketwo it's umpu andju [108:08] means the abode of the gods or the [108:10] dwelling of the gods this is how they [108:12] viewed the megaliths I mean this is how [108:15] if we were primitive people coming upon [108:17] these megalithic structures what would [108:18] we think the gods must have done this [108:20] the gods lived here and so then we would [108:22] rebuild we would reinhabit the [108:24] habitation of the gods [108:25] >> yeah why would you live anywhere else if [108:27] you could live there [108:28] >> right and it would be the nobility [108:30] >> architecture you've ever imagined And [108:32] >> exactly. [108:32] >> That's right. Why would you let some [108:33] idiots take it over? He wouldn't [108:35] >> give me that. That's mine. [108:36] >> He wouldn't. [108:37] >> Yeah, of course. [108:38] >> You know, there's also the the weirdness [108:40] of Peru, like the Nazka lines. Like, [108:42] what the what the hell is all that [108:44] about? [108:45] >> I don't know. I don't know. That's a [108:47] great mystery. [108:47] >> There's a lot of weirdness to Peru. [108:49] >> There's a lot of weirdness in Peru. [108:50] >> And how about those uh the ancient [108:53] tapestries that show those [108:55] three-fingered, three-toed, big-headed [108:57] people with big eyes. And it's [108:59] ubiquitous. And these are a thousand [109:02] years old. [109:03] >> Yeah. You then you have the Paracus [109:05] culture with those massive [109:07] >> elongated skulls, [109:08] >> right? [109:09] >> In the in the Procus culture, by the [109:10] way, you know, people see these [109:12] elongated skulls online. I I was in I've [109:14] been in Procus a lot. They've done a lot [109:16] of research down there on the Proacus [109:18] culture and other things. Made some [109:20] interesting discoveries, by the way, [109:21] with our drone, with our GPR unit. Um, [109:24] but you see these images online, you [109:26] think that the the Paracas people, their [109:28] their skulls are so large and elongated, [109:31] you think they're these must have been [109:32] big people, right? That's what it looks [109:34] like. No, the they were tiny. They were [109:37] really little. They were bizarre. [109:40] Their their mor the morphology of their [109:43] body was different than ours. Um, [109:46] >> tiny with big heads. Yes, the Baracas [109:48] people were very small and they had a [109:50] proclivity to live in in underground. [109:54] They had subterranean dwellings and [109:56] their eye sockets of some of these [109:57] elongated skulls. The eye sockets are [109:59] like 25% larger the orbital socket. So [110:02] they big eyes, elongated skull, very [110:05] dimminionative people in some cases [110:07] living underground. Well, I've heard [110:09] people [110:11] have theories about Neanderthalss that [110:13] Neanderthalss with larger eye sockets as [110:16] well might have been able to see at [110:18] night like the way deer can and [110:20] >> y [110:21] >> the way, you know, other animals that [110:24] are nocturnal can see at night that they [110:26] have a different kind of eye structure. [110:27] Obviously, we don't know what the eye [110:29] structure was, but if you have a [110:31] significantly larger eye socket, [110:34] >> significantly larger eyeball, [110:37] >> it seem I mean, we know that nocturnal [110:39] vision exists in cats and exists in a [110:42] bunch of different animals, but the idea [110:44] of it existing in primates, we've, you [110:47] know, we kind of dismissed that. [110:48] >> Mhm. Yeah. I mean, a bigger eye gathers [110:50] more light. [110:51] >> Yeah. [110:51] >> So, it's a it's it's a nocturnal [110:53] feature. [110:54] >> Not only that, we have no idea what the [110:55] soft tissue structure of their eyes was [110:57] like. No, no. Now granted, for all the [111:01] skeptics out there, yes, many of the [111:03] elongated skulls in Peru and other [111:05] places around the world are the result [111:07] of cranial deformation. So yes, they [111:10] were deforming their skulls with [111:11] headboarding, cradle headboarding and [111:13] binding and so forth. Um, there's [111:16] evidence of that and you can see the [111:17] evidence when you're there if you know [111:18] what you're looking for on the skulls, [111:20] but I don't believe that that explains [111:23] all of the elongated skulls. Not just in [111:26] Peru, other parts of the world, but [111:27] especially in Peru. There are some [111:29] examples of elongated skulls that I mean [111:32] look like a look like a a genetic [111:38] um [111:40] alteration is the best way I can say it. [111:42] So, there's this there's a and you you [111:45] can pull this up, Jamie, if you can find [111:46] it. There's a there's a mummy. I'm [111:49] trying to think of the name of the of [111:52] the um museum where it's housed. There's [111:54] a I think it's the San Marcos Museum in [111:58] Lima. There's a mummy, one the first [112:00] mummy that was discovered by Julio Tejo. [112:02] Julio Tejo or one of the first, if not [112:04] the first. Julio Tejo was the eminent [112:06] archaeologist that discovered the prais [112:08] culture and he's like their greatest [112:10] archaeologist in Peru. was a phenomenal [112:12] archaeologist and he he discovered all [112:14] kinds of things about the Procus [112:15] culture. Uh, and he dug up this mummy [112:20] and it is the it is it is the most [112:22] bizarre mummy I've ever seen in my life. [112:24] It has a massive elongated skull. [112:27] Massive. And [112:28] >> we showed a few of those the other day [112:30] when Cassie Coppersmith was on. We [112:32] showed a few of these uh ones that don't [112:34] have the sagittal suture. Yeah, [112:36] >> they're they're weird. like the just the [112:38] actual structure of the skull is [112:39] different, [112:40] >> but this one has the skin on it [112:43] >> except for part of the face is gone, but [112:44] it's got the skin on it. So, you can [112:45] actually see what what this skull looked [112:48] like with the skin on it. And then the [112:50] morphology of the body is just weird. I [112:52] mean, I I think it's in the museum of if [112:55] I recall, the museum of San Marcos and [112:58] Lima. Um, so these are [113:01] >> How tall were these things? [113:02] >> Oh, they were small. I mean, we're [113:04] talking four foot tall. [113:05] >> What? These guys were little. [113:07] >> Giant heads and four feet tall. [113:08] >> Yeah, they were little. Everyone thinks [113:09] they were big. No, no, no. They were [113:11] little. Some of them. I mean, I think [113:12] they were 4 and 1/2 maybe averaged four [113:15] to four and 1/2 ft tall somewhere in [113:16] there. They were very small. Um maybe [113:19] from four to 5t tall. I don't remember, [113:21] but they're significantly they're [113:22] they're very small. They're [113:23] dimminionative people. [113:24] >> You also tell me which one it is. I [113:25] don't know. [113:27] >> I've never seen one with skin on it. [113:29] It's not really popping. [113:30] >> That one's nuts. [113:30] >> There. The one that uh Brian Forester's [113:32] looking at right here. [113:33] >> Right there. Yeah. [113:35] That run right right there is just [113:37] absolutely bizarre when you look at take [113:39] a look at the look at how tall that [113:41] forehead is on that. There's skin on [113:42] there. Very well preserved. And if you [113:46] look around the back, you can't see it [113:47] here in this image, but if you look [113:48] around the back side of it, the neck is [113:50] very bizarre. It's sort of it's a [113:53] curved. [113:53] >> That is so weird. [113:55] >> I mean, imagine coming upon somebody [113:58] here [113:59] >> weird [113:59] >> in Austin that has a a skull like that. [114:02] >> There might be a few of them here, [114:04] >> right? And that [114:06] [laughter] [114:07] >> I mean that does not look like cranial [114:10] deformation. That looks like a totally [114:11] different kind of head. [114:12] >> Looks like a genetic anomaly. Uh [114:16] it what is that one in the middle? Yeah. [114:20] What is that one? Jeez. [114:22] >> Yeah. There's all kinds of very [114:24] interesting specimens like that. And as [114:25] you said, Peru is a very very strange [114:27] place. [114:27] >> The one on the far left is the craziest [114:29] one to me. [114:30] >> That one. [114:30] >> That one. [114:31] >> It's a Chongo skull. That one was [114:32] discovered at the the Chongo's [114:34] necropolis. [114:35] >> Like what the hell is that? I mean just [114:36] the volume of the brain is so much [114:39] larger than a human being. [114:40] >> That picture might be elongated. You [114:42] know, someone might have altered that [114:44] picture. It is very impressive. That one [114:46] might be elongated. Um the picture I [114:48] mean [114:48] >> right that's more like it. [114:50] >> But the skull [114:52] the these skulls many of these skulls [114:54] that's in the Museum of EA and the city [114:57] of Ein Peru. [114:58] >> That's absolutely insane. These skulls, [114:59] the the Chungo skull was taken from the [115:01] Chongo's necropolis. If you go over to [115:03] the Chongo's necropolis today, which is [115:04] on the desert, you see these things [115:06] sticking out of the ground and they got [115:08] red hair all burned here. And we were we [115:12] were over there with our um with our [115:14] crew and there's a pyramid there, but [115:17] it's a it's an Adobe pyramid, and it's [115:21] called the uh the Jungles pyramid. And [115:26] no, nobody really goes to this area cuz [115:27] it's sort of off the beaten path. It's [115:29] not not wellnown. Um, we were actually [115:32] working in an area further down the road [115:35] because at the time we were looking for [115:38] treasure. We were filming a like a for [115:40] like a TV show looking for for treasure. [115:42] And there was this um there's this pond [115:45] that has a very interesting UFO story [115:47] attached to it further up the road. And [115:50] uh so we were working up there. But [115:52] every day when we we drive by the the [115:54] pyramid, the Trongos pyramid, and it's [115:57] an adobe pyramid, so it's not super [115:59] impressive. It's made of large adobe [116:01] blocks, but it was a large uh urban [116:03] center. It was some people think it was [116:05] the capital of the Proacus culture, very [116:07] large urban center, and it was a [116:09] necropolis. There's tons of of remains. [116:13] and the the elongated skull. Some of [116:16] these Paracus people, the the nobility [116:19] for sure, they were buried in in burial [116:21] bundles and they're in the fetal [116:23] position. And these burial bundles are [116:25] are they're usually layers of fabric and [116:29] there's various items in there and [116:31] they're just under the surface of the [116:33] sand. They're right there and you get a [116:35] lot of grave robbers, waos, who go in [116:37] there and and you know, steal all kinds [116:39] of artifacts and stuff. But we're [116:41] driving by. I looked at the pyramid and [116:43] I thought I had this intuition. [116:47] There's there's a there's there's a [116:49] tunnel under that pyramid. There's [116:51] there's there's a tunnel system under [116:52] that period. I don't know why. I just [116:53] had this intuition. So, we decided to go [116:55] over there one day and fly our our GPR [117:00] drone around the pyramid. And we did a [117:04] we we we did an extensive run around [117:06] that pyramid. We did like a cross [117:07] configuration with the drone to make [117:09] sure that we get a good reading. And we [117:11] found two massive artificial tunnels [117:14] under the pyramid that intersect a 100 [117:16] feet below that pyramid. M you could [117:18] drive a semi-truck through them. And we [117:20] don't know how far they go, but they go [117:22] and we actually spent some time trying [117:24] to find a way into him. We couldn't. We [117:26] ran out of time. Um, but it's it's [117:29] remarkable because Julio Tejo remarks [117:34] in his writing about the Paracus culture [117:36] that the Paracas people seem to have a [117:39] affinity [117:41] for living under the ground. They had [117:43] subterranean dwellings. And I've [117:46] explored some of these subterranean [117:48] dwellings out in the out in the Procus [117:50] Reserve. And what's they're really cool [117:52] because [117:54] they you'll see like these these hills. [117:56] They look like um they look like long [117:59] houses that are built that are that are [118:00] buried in the ground. So you see like [118:02] this this this elongated hill. And [118:04] really what it is is it's whale bones. [118:07] They use like the vertebrae of a whale. [118:10] So you got whale bones and then they [118:11] would pack on top all kinds of they [118:13] would pack on earth but then they would [118:15] also add in organic material and it [118:18] would create like an insulating effect [118:20] and heat the interior. But they were [118:22] subterranean. So what you see are the [118:24] roofs of the of the dwellings and then [118:26] they went down into the ground and there [118:28] were tunnels and there was all kinds of [118:29] stuff. This is where these weird people [118:31] with the elongated skulls were living. [118:34] >> Absolutely. [118:36] >> Absolutely bizarre. [118:37] >> How old are these uh mummies? [118:39] >> I think the Procus culture Oh jeez. It [118:42] goes back maybe to [118:46] I don't remember 200 BC or something [118:47] like that. I can't remember. Maybe not [118:48] that far back. Um I really don't [118:51] remember. They're they're that's that [118:52] can't be accurate. I think it goes back [118:54] to [118:56] definitely to the first century AD. I [118:58] don't remember off the top of my head. [119:00] >> What happened? Where did those people [119:01] go? [119:02] >> That's that's the question. I mean the [119:04] the the I think that the prevailing [119:06] theory is that they became the Nazca [119:08] people that they didn't go anywhere. [119:11] That that essentially the the Nazca [119:13] people were the Paracas people [119:15] >> like they interbred. know that the [119:17] culture just sort of migrated and and [119:19] and became the Nazca people. [119:21] >> So what happened to those genetic [119:22] features [119:23] >> that well there are some among the Nazca [119:25] but not as much as among the Paracas. [119:27] Others think that the Paracus they just [119:30] disappeared like they were either [119:31] exterminated or there's you know there's [119:34] multiple theories but there's no [119:36] question that they were bizarre [119:39] bizarre and of course [119:41] >> and there's physical evidence of this [119:42] like we're talking about the the mummies [119:44] before excuse me the giants before and [119:47] we you know we're like it's just stories [119:49] this is actual physical evidence [119:51] >> you mean the elongated skulls [119:52] >> oh yeah they're everywhere down there [119:53] now granted as I said before many of [119:56] them are the result Oh, [119:57] >> many of them are the result of cranial [119:59] deformation. [119:59] >> But what about these [ __ ] [120:01] >> I don't know. [120:01] >> They're not all elongated. [120:02] >> I mean, yeah. How do you elongate that? [120:04] You got a balloon in someone's head. [120:05] >> I've seen some really big heart-shaped [120:07] heads. [120:07] >> That is so in Peru. [120:09] >> Meeting that guy. I just [120:11] >> small compared to some ones I've seen [120:13] like some of the ones I've seen like [120:14] look like a heart. Really big. [120:17] >> And um actually that particular skull [120:19] was was exceptionally large. The one I [120:21] saw that looked like a heart. [120:22] >> Um [120:23] >> yeah. So, just keep in mind cranial [120:26] deformation is what? [120:27] >> It says that these two in the front left [120:29] row are from the billow bait. [120:32] >> And now I don't know what the hell that [120:33] means. [120:34] >> Billow bait. [120:35] >> Yeah, that's what the picture says. [120:36] >> What does that mean? [120:37] >> Do you know what that means? [120:38] >> No. [120:38] >> Yeah. Two scrolls from the front are [120:40] from the billow bait and italicized. [120:43] >> They are billow bait. I don't know the [120:44] name. [120:44] >> Look at that one on the left in the [120:46] middle. Those are nuts. That is just [120:49] Imagine meeting that cat. [120:51] >> And here's the other question. the size [120:53] of his eyes. [120:54] >> Here's the other question, though. Why [120:55] bind the head, [120:57] >> right? [120:58] >> And and this is all over, as you know, [120:59] all over the world. It's they do it in [121:01] Africa. They do it all the Native [121:02] Americans, the flathead tribe up in [121:04] Montana. They're called the flathead [121:06] because they would cradle board. They're [121:08] young and they get these flat [121:10] >> um [121:11] >> um they [clears throat] they would have [121:12] these very distinct skulls. So, um why [121:17] >> are these cultures doing they're [121:18] emulating something? [121:20] >> Yeah. Who or what are they emulating? [121:22] That's the question. And of course, you [121:24] have in ancient Egypt, you have, you [121:26] know, figures with elongated skulls like [121:28] Nefertiti and her daughters [121:31] um who are depicted with very pronounced [121:33] elongated skulls. Now, is that the is [121:36] that just the result of cradle head [121:38] headboarding? Probably. I don't know. [121:40] But why do that? [121:41] >> Well, the problem is some of these [121:42] skulls have actual larger volume than a [121:45] human skull. [121:45] >> That's true. Some of them do. [121:47] >> That's that's where it gets really [121:48] weird. [121:48] >> That's true. So if you have 20% 30% even [121:51] 40% more volume [121:53] >> which is like okay [121:55] >> 40% more brain is nuts like what does [121:58] that mean? [121:58] >> There's a slight explanation for what we [122:00] were just looking up and that also what [122:02] you [122:02] >> what is the [122:04] >> something to do with male and female. [122:06] >> So it says blobate [122:09] that thing you were talking about [122:11] tubular erect was the most common among [122:13] both sexes. Boate skulls were observed [122:14] at a much higher rate in female skulls. [122:18] This association with sex has evidence [122:20] in some paraca ceramics where men and [122:22] women are depicted with distinctly [122:24] tubular erect or biobait heads [122:27] respectively. [122:28] >> And then it even goes into this. [122:29] >> So the bio bait is then the the [122:30] heart-shaped [122:32] >> [ __ ] weird bending. [122:34] >> It is weird. It is extremely weird. And [122:35] then of course you have those, you know, [122:37] the alleged alien mummies down there. [122:38] >> Yeah. What do you think about those? [122:39] Because there's a lot of people now that [122:40] are saying that those are elaborate [122:41] hoaxes. [122:42] >> I went down to Peru. I was invited to go [122:44] down there um by uh Dr. Roger Zunya or [122:48] Professor Roger Zunya to go down and and [122:51] look at the specimens that they have at [122:53] the Eco Museum. Uh they have four [122:55] specimens at the Eco Museum. The most [122:57] impressive specimen that they have there [122:58] is called Maria and Maria's in the fetal [123:01] position. She's a large one of the [123:02] larger mummies. Um then they have a few [123:05] other ones. They have two of the of the [123:07] the small ones, the ones that Haime [123:09] Assan famously un, you know, revealed [123:12] over there in Mexico during that thing [123:14] that he did over there, that press [123:15] thing. And and then you have one that's [123:18] called Wawita, [123:20] which seems to be like uh some kind of a [123:23] combination of of different things. And [123:25] um so I went down there to the [123:27] university and uh walked up to these [123:31] things and and at first I have to say my [123:34] first impression of Maria, I didn't [123:36] really care about the little ones. I [123:37] never believed that the little ones [123:38] ever. [123:39] >> The little ones look squirly. [123:40] >> Yeah. I never believed that they were [123:41] living organic beings. They're very [123:43] rigid. [123:43] >> Yeah, [123:44] >> they're very rigid. I don't think that, [123:46] you know, like their morphology really [123:47] could have worked in the real world. [123:48] >> Like Monat, like that one. [123:50] >> Monerat and and Maria and um there's a [123:53] bunch of them. the those are very [123:56] compelling when you when you're standing [123:57] next to them looking at them. [124:00] The they were compelling. So I looked at [124:04] the mummies and then I interviewed um [124:06] Roger Zunya and he's very very convinced [124:09] that they're 100% real. Sincerely, I [124:13] mean I I like um Professor Zunya and he [124:17] really is convinced. I don't think he's [124:19] not trying to perpetrate some kind of a [124:20] hoax. Neither is anybody at the [124:22] University of Eeka. There's a good faith [124:23] effort going on there to try and [124:26] investigate this and and and and [124:28] continually do testing and there it's [124:30] it's an open field. They're [124:31] >> Have they done genetic testing? [124:33] >> Yeah, they've done all kinds of testing. [124:34] So, [124:34] >> what do they find? [124:36] >> Here's the problem. There's been a lot [124:37] of testing done, but but I don't think [124:39] the interpretation of the data has been [124:41] competent. [124:43] Um, and so initially I was pretty [124:47] impressed. I thought it was more likely [124:49] than not. I even said this on the [124:50] Michael Null show that it was more [124:51] likely than not in my mind that the the [124:54] the larger mummies like Maria were real, [124:56] but I've since reversed that position. I [124:58] think it's more likely than not that all [125:00] of them are a hoax. [125:02] That's my personal opinion. And this is [125:05] a hot topic, you know, like on X and [125:07] stuff. There's a lot of people who are [125:09] absolutely sincerely convinced that [125:11] these things are real. The problem is [125:14] that this entire thing started with a [125:16] with a grave robber, [125:19] a very shady individual. [125:22] And the very first mummies that were [125:23] brought forward were were were hoaxes, [125:25] were fake. That's how it started. [125:29] And you know, this is a whole it's a [125:31] whole saga we don't have to get into, [125:32] but it started with fakes. It started [125:35] with a hoax. [125:37] And then they alle, you know, then [125:39] allegedly they started to produce the [125:40] real the real ones. And I I just have a [125:43] hard time believing that that this is an [125:47] elaborate hoax. Now, I've talked to some [125:48] of the individuals who've [125:51] um who've done some of the scientific [125:54] work on these. They don't want me to [125:56] mention their names or anything. Um [125:58] they're trying to just sort of stay [125:59] neutral. They don't want the press and [126:03] they [126:05] they also doubt that they're they're [126:06] real. They think they're really really [126:09] elaborate hoaxes [126:11] and um I know that a lot of money has [126:14] exchanged hands regard to these things. [126:16] Maria was on up for sale for a million [126:19] dollars at one point and if I mean if [126:21] you're a proven grave robber a million [126:23] dollars is like a billion dollars. I [126:25] mean um so that's to me that's uh [126:29] >> Can we see what the Maria one looks [126:30] like? [126:31] >> That's not [126:33] that cast a lot of shade on the whole [126:34] thing for me. Now I can't say [126:36] scientifically the DNA data this that [126:39] the other but there's a lot of debate [126:41] going back and forth on this thing. [126:42] Well, I think one of the problems is [126:44] anatomists uh experts in anatomy have [126:48] looked at the structure of the feet. [126:49] Yes. In the hands and they they it [126:51] doesn't seem to jive with what they [126:54] understand about the structure of feet. [126:56] >> That's true. [126:56] >> That the bones are not in the proper [126:59] position. They're not the proper size. [127:01] They don't It doesn't look like it makes [127:04] sense. But damn, that's amazing. [127:06] >> Thanks, Maria. [127:07] >> Like, here's the thing. If it is a hoax, [127:09] like what an amazing job they did. [127:11] >> Yeah. Maybe maybe the greatest hoax ever [127:13] perpetrated in the history of [127:15] archaeology. [127:15] >> Like who did it and like what what [127:18] talent this person has. [127:20] >> There's a new note because this this [127:22] website was the tridactyls.org. [127:24] It [clears throat] got up there. There's [127:25] a little note that popped up. It says [127:26] they have ongoing research that just got [127:28] updated. [127:29] >> This is a great website. Uh what is the [127:31] ongoing research? [127:32] >> They're just there's more here than [127:35] Maria might be Mario. [127:36] >> Yeah, Mario. They call him Mario Mario [127:37] now. It's a dude. [127:39] >> Maybe he's nonbinary. Bunch more [127:40] [laughter] data down here. I don't know [127:42] what all this stuff is. [127:43] >> Interesting. [127:44] >> Bunch more data that people [127:45] >> That's a great resource there. Um, [127:48] >> so it's tridactyls.org. [127:50] >> Um, go to the uh images of it again. Go [127:53] down like right there. So this uh [127:58] Okay, this is a 3D scan. [128:00] >> Yeah, these are all scans. These are [128:01] videos of the scans. [128:03] >> [ __ ] weird, man. Look at the length [128:06] also of the fingers and the toes. [128:11] Well, you think that's a hoax? [128:12] >> People said it wouldn't work that way. [128:13] >> You know, [sighs] [128:15] I [128:15] >> What' you say, Jamie? [128:16] >> People said that like the you can't grab [128:18] stuff. There's pictures down here they [128:20] have of people trying where was it? [128:22] Trying to like grab stuff with uh I [128:25] might have been looking at a different [128:27] Yeah, I was looking at this. These are [128:29] the fingers that you couldn't bend. They [128:32] wouldn't bend or something like that. [128:33] It's hard to like this person trying to [128:34] grab stuff with long fingers without [128:37] bendable, you know? uh appendages, I [128:40] guess. [128:40] >> Well, we're assuming that they had to [128:42] grab things. [128:43] >> Well, what would you have fingers for? [128:45] >> Well, maybe they put them on a [128:47] spaceship. That's how they pilot it. [128:50] Maybe they've gone past the idea of [128:51] picking things up. Maybe they lift [128:53] things with their mind. Maybe that's how [128:55] they move the blocks into place. [128:58] >> I don't know. [128:58] >> I'm more convinced than that that [128:59] they're that they're a hoax. I don't I [129:01] can't say definitively. [129:02] >> Yeah, I would lean in that direction [129:03] because I want them to be real. And the [129:05] problem, but also whoever did hoax them, [129:08] like Monster, whoever hoax that, like [129:10] what an amazing job you guys did, [129:12] >> and also there's some of them that have [129:14] weird implants in their heads. [129:16] >> They have metal implants in the one a [129:18] couple of them have them in the hand, [129:18] others have them in the forehead. [129:20] >> Very weird stuff. [129:20] >> Some of them have fetuses apparently, [129:22] although that's there's some dispute [129:23] about that. They say the fetuses look [129:25] like, you know, that they look the same [129:26] as the adults, which would be remarkable [129:28] if true, but that's disputed. [129:30] Everything's disputed, [129:31] >> right? There's I mean there's there's [129:34] there's there's a factional battle here [129:37] between the the the believers and the [129:39] naysayers, right? [129:40] >> And they're both looking at the same [129:42] data, interpret interpreting it [129:43] differently. So that's why I just sort [129:46] of stand back and say I don't know. I [129:47] mean, I can tell you how it started. It [129:49] started with grave robbers, very um very [129:53] seedy people, [129:54] >> and it started the initial ones were not [129:57] real. I know that because I know um the [130:00] individuals who were involved in that [130:02] whole thing. So [130:04] >> just that alone. [130:06] >> Yeah. [130:06] >> Just that alone. I mean, [130:07] >> but then how did they make the skin? How [130:09] did they cover it? How did they make it [130:11] look like? They're really good. [130:13] >> I mean, you know, if you were selling [130:15] these things for hundreds of thou if you [130:16] were making $100,000 on just $100,000 on [130:18] one of these [130:20] >> mummies and you're a poor grave robber, [130:23] you would do anything. and take whatever [130:25] time it what whatever it took to produce [130:27] one of these to sell it to make [130:28] $100,000. [130:30] >> But haven't they aged them like and [130:32] they're really old? [130:34] >> They harvest the pieces from the graves. [130:38] >> Okay. [130:39] >> From from the Nazca graves. [130:41] >> They construct this somehow from really [130:44] old skeletons pieced it together. [130:46] >> That's the allegation. And also from old [130:48] llamas and stuff like that. [130:50] >> Yeah. Um, [130:51] >> one of the other weird things about [130:53] these elongated heads is that they have [130:55] where it connects to the spine is in a [130:58] different position than a human skull. [131:00] >> Yes, there is some indication of that. [131:02] Um, that's why I was pointing out on [131:04] that the one that with the skin on it. [131:07] There is a very interesting morphology [131:10] with the where the of the neck where it [131:11] connects into the spinal cord. Now, I'm [131:14] not an expert on anatomy. I don't know. [131:16] All I can look at it and say is that's [131:18] freaking weird. I mean, really, really [131:20] weird. [131:20] >> It is weird. And all I and and I mean I [131:23] always just remind people just you can [131:25] argue about all the dad all day long, [131:26] but if one of those people walked into [131:28] this room right now, [131:29] >> right, [131:31] >> it wouldn't just be a little weird, [131:33] >> right? [131:33] >> It would be it would be utterly bizarre. [131:36] >> Yeah. [131:37] >> And [131:38] >> an actual real human mummy or whatever [131:41] it is, mummy, if that was alive today, [131:44] it would freak you out. [131:44] >> Yeah. Larger orbital sockets, very [131:46] small, extremely elongated head. [131:49] >> Yeah. It freak you out. [131:51] >> It just makes you wonder like what was [131:53] the world like back then? What what were [131:57] these people like? Was there a separate [132:00] branch of the human species? [132:02] >> I don't know. I think I'm pretty sure [132:03] now I'm I'm recalling the date 2,00 2500 [132:07] BC somewhere around there is where the [132:08] process culture goes back to and then it [132:11] I think it existed until 700 AD. I'm I'm [132:15] not sure that those numbers are accurate [132:16] but that's what I remember. Yeah, [132:19] there's a lot of weird stuff in Peru. [132:21] >> Well, a lot of weird stuff in just [132:23] ancient history in particular. What do [132:25] you make of like things like Zepte and [132:28] the Sumerian kings list where you you go [132:32] back in time and you have these [132:35] incredible ages of some of these rulers [132:37] that ruled for thousands of years. [132:40] Um, well, what's in what's really [132:42] interesting is that if you overlay the [132:45] Samrian kings list with the with the [132:47] list of patriarchs, pre-flood patriarchs [132:49] in Genesis 5, it's like a onetoone [132:50] match. [132:52] So, um, I'm not convinced that I think [132:56] that the the Sumerian kings list is is [132:59] the ages is mythological. [133:01] Um, I don't think that they were ruling [133:04] for thousands and thousands of years. Um [133:08] uh I like I said I see this very [133:11] interesting overlay over the over the [133:12] Genesis 6 genealogy. These are the [133:14] patriarchs from Adam to Noah. And [133:17] specifically I mean these are the [133:18] patriarchs who live before the flood. [133:20] The flood came in the time of Noah. And [133:24] you know, there's a lot of debate right [133:26] now, especially online, and I think [133:29] you've had people here on your show as [133:30] well, that talk about the Sumerian story [133:36] being the oldest story and being our [133:38] sort of the the original story of the [133:41] flood and and of the anti-dolivian [133:43] world. But I actually I have a different [133:45] view of that. I think actually the [133:47] oldest story is the story of Enoch. It's [133:50] the Enochian story. I think that's the [133:52] original story. And maybe some of this [133:56] strangeness, maybe some of the bizarre [133:58] things that we see and the the stories [134:00] of the flood and of the giants and all [134:03] of that, maybe something like the book [134:06] of Enoch is a is a actually an accurate [134:08] account of affairs of things that happen [134:10] in the anti-dolivian world. And [134:13] certainly the writers of the biblical [134:15] narrative believe that. I mean the [134:17] writer of Genesis and then obvious in [134:18] the New Testament you have references to [134:20] to what I call the Anakian tale. And so [134:24] when you think about this the [134:25] anti-delivian world the cataclysm that [134:29] that [134:31] destroyed it seemingly overnight the [134:34] great civilizations that existed back [134:35] then. Um, [134:39] you see a you see a series of of [134:42] parallels in all the stories, all the [134:45] ancient stories. Uh, whether it be the [134:47] the the Sumerianss, whether it be the [134:49] the ancient Egyptians, the um the [134:53] Hebrews, [134:55] the Greeks, the Romans, there are [134:57] parallels in certain details. Great [135:00] civilizations inhabited the earth, or at [135:02] least a great civilization. And that [135:03] doesn't necessarily mean that that they [135:06] had the kind of technology that we have [135:08] today. I think that's a mistake that [135:10] some people make when they're thinking [135:11] about the anti-livvian world and a lost [135:14] civilization. They think, well, that [135:15] means that there were skyscrapers and [135:17] and automobiles and aircraft and things [135:19] like that. That's not necessarily what [135:21] it means. Um and so [135:26] I think it's very very interesting that [135:28] you have all of these parallels a [135:29] cataclysm giants [135:32] um you have a fratricidal war that's [135:36] discussed for example in in you have the [135:38] the vet and and some of the ancient [135:41] Indian origin stories and another [135:44] component that you find everywhere is [135:46] this idea that the gods descended to the [135:48] earth comingled with human species [135:52] progenerated a race of demigods, in many [135:55] accounts, giants, who then governed the [135:57] earth. And depending on what [136:01] version of the story you're reading, [136:02] they were either good guys or bad guys [136:06] leading up to the cataclysm that [136:07] destroyed everything. You know, the [136:09] biblical account, the great flood, and [136:11] other accounts record various kinds of [136:15] cataclysm, right, all over the world. So [136:18] the question is I think an intriguing [136:22] question is is it true? I mean are these [136:25] basic um constituents of these stories [136:30] is it true? [136:32] And and I happen to believe that [136:35] I happen to believe that that the book [136:37] of Enoch is the beginning of the book of [136:39] Enoch. The oldest portion of the book of [136:42] Enoch called the book of the watchers [136:44] is [136:46] the earliest account of the [136:49] anti-dolivian world. And I don't mean [136:50] necessarily the book of Enoch that we [136:52] have today. I mean the tradition of [136:55] Enoch. [136:56] Was there a manuscript that Enoch wrote [136:58] himself? Enoch was the seventh from [136:59] Adam. So he's one of those individuals [137:02] on the Sumerian kings list. [137:04] I believe he corresponds to Endem and [137:06] Demaranki. I can't remember how to [137:08] pronounce the name in the Sumerian name. [137:11] But again, you have this overlay with [137:13] the pre- flood patriarchs. You have all [137:15] of these details that correspond. [137:17] Now, we have evidence of cataclysm. [137:19] We're finding evidence of cataclysm, [137:21] right? We talked about the younger D [137:23] impact hypothesis. [137:25] So, are some of the other details true [137:27] as well? Were there giants? [137:31] Were there beings who descended to the [137:33] earth in the anti-dolivian world? Did [137:37] they populate with human women? I mean, [137:40] that's [137:41] that's essentially the story of Enoch. [137:43] Enoch begins with [137:46] um this is first Enoch. Enoch begins [137:49] with a company of 200 watchers. These [137:52] beings that are designated as watchers [137:54] and they are they're heavenly beings. [137:58] And the the the watcher designation is [138:00] not exclusively extra biblical. You find [138:02] it in the book of Daniel in a very [138:03] interesting scene in which holy watchers [138:08] are judging Nebuchadnezzar, the [138:10] Babylonian king, and they sentence him [138:13] to a period of time of madness where [138:15] he's given the mind of a beast, and he's [138:16] eating grass. And this is a judgment [138:19] from the watchers. He's eating grass [138:21] like an animal, and his hair grows long, [138:24] and he's basically like a beast out in [138:26] the field. The the the hotty king of [138:28] Babylon, humbled in that way. And so the [138:32] watcher designation is you find it in [138:34] Daniel. But then in the book of Enoch, [138:36] it's much more specific. These were 200 [138:37] of these watchers. These are nonhuman [138:42] celestial entities. You could describe [138:44] them as extraterrestrial entities. [138:47] And [138:48] they [138:51] they begin to lust after the daughters [138:54] of men [138:56] and they desire to uh to progenerate [138:59] families. They want to have families. [139:01] >> Do you think that this is a [139:03] simplification of genetic engineering [139:06] and that this depiction of it is just, [139:10] you know, like the game of telephone, [139:11] you're telling the old story [139:14] through oral tradition for a long period [139:17] of time as it gets relayed over time [139:20] post flood. So you get this sort of [139:22] distorted version of what the actual [139:25] event was. [139:26] >> I think it's possible there was genetic [139:28] engineering involved. because we [139:30] certainly look different than everything [139:31] else on the planet. [139:33] >> Well, the the book of Enoch, the the at [139:36] least the Hebrew account both in the [139:38] book of Genesis because the the there's [139:39] a there's a verse Genesis 6 [139:42] um that says, "Now it came to pass that [139:44] when men began to multiply on the face [139:46] of the earth and daughters were born to [139:47] them that the sons of God saw the [139:49] daughters of men that they were [139:50] beautiful and they took wives of all [139:52] whom they chose. There were giants or [139:54] nephilim in the earth in those days and [139:56] also afterward when the sons of God came [139:57] into the daughters of men and they bore [140:00] children to them. These were the mighty [140:01] men of old, the men of renown. That's [140:04] the reference to the to the origin of [140:06] giants and Nephilim in the book of [140:09] Genesis. [140:10] And so in the Bible, you have these [140:13] angelic beings, the sons of God, who are [140:16] lusting. They're looking down at the [140:17] daughters of men. They see that they're [140:19] beautiful. The book of Enoch is even [140:21] more explicit. The book of Enoch says [140:23] that the that the angels of heaven, the [140:24] watchers lusted [140:27] after the daughters of men and they [140:29] desired to progenerate families. So they [140:34] descended they descended to the earth on [140:36] the summit of Mount Hermon and they [140:38] bound themselves by a pact of mutual [140:40] impreations. [140:42] In other words, we're all in this [140:43] together. They knew what they were about [140:44] to do was going to be very grave sin. So [140:47] they bind themselves with an oath. [140:49] That's why Mount Hermon has been known [140:51] since time immemorial as the mountain of [140:53] oath. Then they descended into the [140:55] plains and they began to choose wives [140:56] from among the daughters of men uh with [140:59] whom to copulate. But first these were [141:03] maidens that they intended to marry and [141:05] there was a transaction that happened [141:08] because in exchange for the for the [141:11] maiden's hands in marriage [141:14] the their fathers were given technology. [141:18] So the watchers taught men the knowledge [141:21] that they were already striving to [141:23] learn. So there's and that's and it [141:25] that's that's implied in the text. It's [141:27] not explicit, but it's implied because [141:28] the watchers give technology. They give [141:30] knowledge which results in technology [141:32] and they get an exchange the maidens [141:35] that they desired to marry. And then [141:37] they they copulate with them. They have [141:38] sexual intercourse with them. The women [141:40] conceive and give birth to giants. And [141:43] then these giants begin to terrorize the [141:44] earth. They're cannibalistic. They begin [141:48] to devour men. [141:49] >> So maybe a hybrid sort of like a liger. [141:53] You know how a liger is a combination of [141:56] a tiger and a lion? It's much larger. [141:58] Large. Yeah. [141:59] >> But they can't reproduce, [142:00] >> right? [142:01] >> Yeah. So the so the result is you have [142:03] these watchers. Yeah. Their DNA mixed [142:06] with the DNA of human women produces [142:07] giants. [142:09] And and you know this story by the way [142:12] is attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not [142:13] just in the Bible, not just in the book [142:15] of Enoch. the book of Enoch. Of course, [142:16] fragments of it were discovered among [142:18] the Dead Sea Scrolls. But you find you [142:20] find this story in, for example, you [142:22] find it in the book of giants, the book [142:26] of Jubilees, the Genesis Apocryphan, and [142:29] other texts as well. And so this is this [142:32] story, as bizarre as it is, is [142:34] foundational to Hebrew cosmology. [142:37] This is what the ancient Hebrews [142:39] believed literally happened. Like this [142:41] was a in their minds, this was a [142:42] historical event. You go back in time, [142:45] you go to the anti-olivian world, the [142:46] world before the flood. What do they [142:47] envision? They envision the watchers, [142:50] these gods living among men, populating [142:53] with human women, giants who were who [142:57] who were cannibalistic. And then [143:01] God decides intervene because the giants [143:04] are there's it's a very bad scene on [143:06] planet Earth. And people begin to cry [143:08] out, petition heaven. God decides to [143:10] intervene according to Enoch and he's he [143:14] dispatches some angels and they one of [143:16] the things that they do is they set the [143:19] giants against each other in a [143:20] fratricidal war. [143:23] So they make the giants go to war with [143:25] each other. Now [143:27] when I envision this scenario playing [143:30] with the idea here that this actually [143:32] happened right in the anti-dolivian [143:33] world I don't imagine big dumb giants [143:36] you know bopping each other over the [143:38] heads with clubs I imagine a [143:40] technological war [143:42] because what I see unfolding here and I [143:45] think again this is implicit in the [143:46] inkian story is that [143:51] the watchers are essentially creating a [143:53] dynasty. They are building an empire [143:56] called the empire of the gods in the [143:57] anti-dolivian world there. They are each [144:00] portioning the earth among themselves [144:02] and their hybrids are ruling each of [144:04] these kingdoms and then they go to war [144:08] with each other. And again, I see this [144:10] as a technological war because I don't [144:11] believe that in the biblical account, [144:15] angels never have wings. Only in [144:18] prophetic icon iconography, but in the [144:20] historical narrative of the Bible, [144:22] angels are never depicted with wings. [144:24] They are depicted as [144:27] uh operating what what I would describe [144:30] as advanced aerospace vehicles, the [144:31] chariots of God, the chariots of Yahweh, [144:33] the chariots of fire, variously [144:35] denominated. And I think that these are [144:38] vehicles of conveyance [144:41] and and so the watchers when they [144:43] descended to the earth I think they [144:44] descended to the earth in some kind of a [144:46] vehicle you know like that right so they [144:51] would have the knowledge and there would [144:52] be some technology and so when these [144:55] when their offspring the giants went to [144:57] war with each other in this fractalidal [144:59] war it would have been a technological [145:01] war [145:03] now the reason why I say that is Because [145:06] you have the story of the watchers [145:09] as as chronicled in the book of Enoch, [145:11] but then overlay the story of Atlantis. [145:14] You have the same story. So of course [145:16] the story of Atlantis comes to us from [145:18] Plato's Tmus and Citrius dialogue and he [145:22] has Solen of Athens traveling to Egypt [145:25] and and and [145:27] interfacing with the priests of SC and [145:30] they tell him you know you don't have [145:32] any history that's horriy with age and [145:34] so forth and then they begin to relate [145:36] to him the story of Atlantis because [145:38] they told him that his ancestors were [145:39] remarkable people. They were the they [145:41] were the Athenians and only they could [145:43] resist the warlike Atlantanss, right? [145:46] And then we get the story of Atlantis. [145:47] How does the story of Atlantis begin in [145:50] uh in Plato's dialogue? Well, it begins [145:54] with the gods aortioning the earth [145:56] amongst themselves. That's how it [145:58] begins. So, here are the gods dividing, [146:00] divvying up the earth. They're going to [146:02] create what I again describe as an [146:03] empire of the gods. They're divvying up [146:06] the earth and each one is going to take [146:10] an a portion of the earth for himself. [146:12] Poseidon, Plato tells us, gets the area [146:14] of Atlantis. And what does Poseidon do? [146:18] Well, he becomes enamored of a human [146:20] woman named Plato. He takes her to wife. [146:24] He copulates with her. She gives birth [146:27] to 10 hybrid sons who become the kings [146:31] of Atlantis. And I think there's reason [146:33] to believe that they were giants in the [146:35] myths. [146:36] Atlas, for example, was chief among [146:38] them. So you have these 10 hybrid sons [146:41] ruling over Atlantis. [146:43] Then what happens? Then you have and [146:46] presumably the other gods did the same [146:47] thing in other parts of the world, [146:50] right? They went out and and married [146:52] human women and gave birth to hybrid [146:55] offspring, which is of course what [146:56] happens in Greek mythology with a lot of [146:58] these gods. They progenerate hybrid [146:59] offspring. Then you have [147:03] a war that breaks out. The Atlantanss [147:05] become very warlike. They go on a a [147:08] campaign and [147:11] they they're steamrolling everybody in [147:13] their way until they get to the [147:16] Athenians [147:18] and they're locked in this conflict. So [147:22] I'm hoping people are picking up the [147:23] parallels here with the book of Enoch [147:24] with this with the story of Enoch. And [147:26] in the midst of this conflict, what [147:28] happens? Cataclysm ensues. [147:32] Atlantis, but not just Atlantis. [147:35] Atlantis in the insinuation is everybody [147:39] gets destroyed in a cataclysm that [147:43] erupts suddenly [147:45] and Atlantis is consumed in in the waves [147:48] and and is no more. Well, the whole [147:52] point of the Egyptians when they're [147:54] telling this story to Solon, one of the [147:56] one of the points that they're trying to [147:58] convey to Solon is there have been many [148:00] cataclysms, world ending cataclysms. And [148:03] every time a cataclysm happens, we have [148:06] to start over like children, right? So [148:10] the parallels between the book of Enoch [148:12] and I think it, by the way, I think [148:14] Atlantis [148:16] that Atlantis is an allegory of the [148:18] anti-dolivian world in general. [148:21] I think that there was something like an [148:22] empire of the gods in the anti-dolivian [148:24] world and I personally believe that um [148:28] that the biblical record is the is the [148:30] faithful account of what happened in the [148:31] anti-dolivian world and with the [148:33] addition of the book of Enoch um because [148:35] you cannot separate you cannot separate [148:39] the Enochian narrative the Enochic [148:42] traditions from the Bible. Well, Enoch [148:44] is referenced in the Bible, and the only [148:46] reason why the book of Enoch is not in [148:48] the cannon of the Bible is because of [148:49] some rabbis, right? [148:51] >> Well, it's it's complicated. So, the [148:53] book of Enoch [148:55] is a compilation of texts [148:58] and ranging from the 4th century BC to [149:01] probably the 1st century AD. [149:04] The tradition of Enoch, I think, is very [149:07] old. I think the tradition of Enoch, [149:10] this that that story I just outlined, [149:13] that tradition of Enoch is the oldest [149:14] story we have, [149:17] the one upon which all the other stories [149:18] are based. That's my personal opinion. [149:21] Now, the actual book of Enoch that we [149:23] have today, the only reason we have it [149:25] is because it was preserved in Ethiopia. [149:28] That's the only reason we have the book [149:29] of Enoch today. [149:30] >> The Ethiopian Bible, [149:31] >> the Ethiopians preserved it. both the [149:33] the uh the the beta Israel Jews, very [149:37] very ancient Jewish community and the [149:39] Tawahedo Orthodox Christians. [149:41] >> Do you think they have the Ark of the [149:43] Covenant? [149:45] >> I think, let's put it this way. I think [149:46] Graham Hancock makes a very compelling [149:48] case that they do. Have you read his [149:50] book, The Sign in the Seal? [149:51] >> Yeah. It's the whole depiction of these [149:54] people that are the watchers of this [149:56] thing get cataracts because it has some [149:58] radiation properties. [149:59] >> Yeah. Very compelling narrative. [150:00] >> Yeah. None of them live more than a [150:02] couple years after they get the [150:03] assignment. [150:04] >> Yeah, it's I think it's a it's a very [150:06] strong possibility that they do. [150:09] >> That's crazy. [150:10] >> It would be crazy. Yeah. And I think [150:12] that um many people including Graham [150:14] think that the Ark of the Covenant was [150:15] there's something technological about [150:17] it, something radioactive about it. [150:19] Um, [150:21] but it it is it's interesting though [150:24] because you have [150:27] the idea at the very least the potential [150:30] for technology in the anti-dolivian [150:33] world, right? Advanced technology. So [150:34] what what do I mean? Well, what if [150:37] we're talking about the watchers who [150:38] descended the earth, like I said, the [150:40] Hebrews believe that that actually [150:41] happened, that that was historical. That [150:43] wasn't mythological to them. That was [150:44] historical, that event. Well, what if [150:46] they did arrive in something like like [150:48] that? like like a like a flying saucer, [150:50] right? What if there was some level of [150:52] of technology introduced? [150:55] But I don't believe that it would have [150:56] been distributed, broadly distributed, [150:59] you know, [151:01] talking about like an like an advanced [151:03] lost civilization. I don't think that [151:05] technology would be broadly distributed. [151:07] I think that the technology would remain [151:08] in these family lines in these dynasties [151:11] because their desire was to govern [151:12] everyone. So I think what we might be [151:14] looking for instead of a technologically [151:16] advanced civilization, maybe a [151:18] technologically advanced fraternity [151:20] within civilization. You see what I [151:21] mean? [151:22] >> Like a group that was in that was in [151:24] control of something advanced, but the [151:28] rest of the people maybe were Iron Age [151:30] or something like that or whatever [151:31] bronze age level, which is kind of a [151:34] different perspective. [151:35] >> Well, we see that today, right? I mean [151:36] there's plenty of people today that are [151:39] uncontacted tribes [151:40] >> that are living like people lived tens [151:42] of thousands of years ago. [151:44] >> That's exactly right. Yeah. So [151:46] >> yeah, it's not uniform even today. [151:48] >> Right. So we may So I think that's why [151:51] when we think about was there a [151:53] technologically advanced civilization in [151:54] the anti-living world in the world [151:55] before the great cataclysm. I think [151:58] really what we're looking what I'm [151:59] looking for is a is a is a fraternity [152:03] who were in possession of technology [152:05] that the rest of everyone didn't have. [152:08] Maybe something like that. Although I [152:09] will say that I believe that the [152:11] antilovians were much more remarkable [152:13] than we are in every way. I think they [152:15] were physically more robust than we are. [152:17] I think that they were intellectually [152:19] much more they were intellectually [152:20] superior to us. Uh as I was saying [152:23] before this how the ancients thought of [152:24] their anticedants. And so when I look [152:26] back on the timeline of history, the [152:29] further you go back all the way to those [152:32] pre flood patriarchs, you're looking at [152:35] human beings who [152:38] who were so superior to us. I mean [152:42] certainly according to the biblical [152:43] account, they were living much much [152:44] longer, almost a thousand years. You're [152:46] looking at human beings who who we would [152:50] scarcely be regarded as as as human like [152:53] them because they would have been more [152:55] human than we are because we've [152:56] degenerated. So I see a degeneration I [153:01] see a devolution in the human species. [153:03] We started as something really really [153:05] remarkable and we've been gradually [153:08] devolving over time so to speak. We've [153:10] been degenerating. I think that our [153:13] anticedants, our anti-delivian [153:14] anticcedants, I [snorts] think they were [153:16] telepathic. [153:18] I think that they had these incredible [153:21] abilities, capabilities that that that [153:23] are perhaps latent in the human species [153:26] today. [153:26] >> Well, that might have been why these [153:27] people had such large heads in Peru, [153:29] too. [153:29] >> Maybe. [153:30] >> Right. [153:30] >> Maybe everybody had elongated skulls at [153:32] one time. I don't know. [153:33] >> But I mean, think about that, though. I [153:35] mean, if if you were see from a biblical [153:37] perspective, Adam was created for two [153:41] for two fundamental reasons. He was [153:43] created to govern the earth, but more [153:47] than that, he was created [153:51] to fellowship with the maker, to commune [153:56] with the maker. He was created for [153:58] fellowship. So, think about that. If you [154:00] were created to fellowship with the [154:03] maker, with God, you would have some [154:05] extraordinary capabilities built into [154:08] your anatomy, into your biology. You [154:10] would be given the ability to interface [154:12] with the maker. And not just with the [154:14] maker, but with with whatever whatever [154:17] else is out there as well. So from the [154:20] very beginning I think that [154:23] mankind was was imbued was it was [154:27] intrinsic in our design that we had all [154:30] of these these incredible capabilities. [154:32] Maybe remote viewing, maybe certainly I [154:34] would say telepathy because telepathy is [154:36] conversation at the speed of thought, [154:39] right? I mean, we fumble around with [154:40] words. We we it takes us kind of a long [154:42] time to try and say what we mean. But [154:44] but what if what you wanted to convey to [154:47] me was done so instantaneously. [154:50] How much more could you convey? How much [154:51] more information? How much more [154:53] efficient would that mode of [154:55] conversation be? [154:56] >> It certainly seems like if we keep [154:58] evolving, that's the future. [155:01] or if we keep developing better and [155:03] better versions of technology. One of [155:06] the things that the gaps that we would [155:08] bridge is Elon said that he said we're [155:11] going to be able to talk without words. [155:13] >> Well, the problem is that our technology [155:16] is getting better, but our species is [155:18] getting dumber [155:19] >> and our biology is getting weaker and [155:21] we're poisoner. [155:23] >> But it's not just because of poison. [155:24] Yes, we poison our environment. We [155:26] poison our bodies certainly but I [155:28] believe that there it's clear to me that [155:31] there that we have degenerating and we [155:33] are degenerating. We are degenerating. [155:36] So um and this is genetic degeneration. [155:40] So we have what's called mutational [155:42] load. Human beings all creatures we have [155:44] mutational load. And mutational load is [155:48] all of the delletterious mutations all [155:50] of the negative mutations that happen in [155:51] our genome. [155:53] they compile [155:56] and it becomes this it becomes this [155:59] burden this genetic burden. We have all [156:01] of these mutations that we're carrying [156:02] mutational load and the further we go [156:05] down the line the more mutational load [156:07] we have and again these are [156:08] delletterious mutations. So you [snorts] [156:12] get all kinds of problems from that. I [156:14] mean we we basically what it amounts to [156:16] is we become less and less and less [156:18] impressive over time [156:19] >> and there's nothing we can do. You can't [156:22] reverse that. You can't just have a good [156:23] diet and and get and regain the [156:27] capabilities that were lost. That's [156:28] impossible. So, we're declining. [156:32] Our technology is ascending. We're [156:34] declining. So, what we're headed for [156:37] essentially is a posthuman future. [156:40] A future in which we have to we have to [156:43] evolve ourselves out of this condition. [156:46] I would say out of Adam, into something [156:49] else. And I'm not in favor of that, by [156:52] the way. I'm not a transhumanist. But [156:54] clearly, [156:56] you have this you have this conundrum [156:59] where we are clearly getting dumber as a [157:02] species. There's no doubt about it. I [157:03] mean, I saw I can't reference it here, [157:05] but I saw some data on this the other [157:07] day. Um, and it's astounding. It's it's [157:11] it's kind of alarming. And not only [157:13] that, [157:16] we've realized and I try and remember [157:18] the reference to this this book that's [157:21] um that details this, but the human [157:24] species is essentially becoming [157:27] reproductively inviable. [157:29] The sperm count of males in the west is [157:31] declining precipitously [157:34] as is our fitness. So that is on the [157:37] decline such that I think the projection [157:40] is in 2045 or something like that we're [157:42] going to basically be reproductively [157:43] inviable. We're going to need a [157:46] technological intervention like [157:48] artificial wombs. Well, what's happening [157:51] right now? We're developing things like [157:53] artificial wombs. [157:55] So it's it's very interesting that these [157:57] two things are running in parallel. [158:00] We're degenerating, but our technology [158:02] is increasingly getting better. So the [158:06] the result of this is going to be what I [158:08] describe as posthuman apocalypse. I mean [158:10] we're we're headed for a future that's [158:12] not human. That's what um the [158:17] you all know her is out there [158:20] prognosticating that in I think he says [158:22] in 120 to 130 years from now there will [158:25] be no more human beings left on planet [158:27] earth. So why am I saying this? Because [158:30] I'm illustrating that you go back in [158:33] time. [clears throat] You go all the way [158:34] back to the beginning. If you come from [158:35] a biblical par paradigm like I do, [158:37] you're you're in the first man, Adam, [158:40] the prototypical man. He has all of the [158:42] incredible capabilities that are innate [158:44] built into his system. He he can he he's [158:47] communing with his maker. He's governing [158:49] the earth. He's have he he can do all of [158:52] these amazing things. And then as we [158:54] become copies of copies of copies of [158:56] copies of copies of Adam all the way [158:57] down, we're we're gradually losing these [159:00] abilities. But I think that some of them [159:02] are still, you know, latent in the human [159:04] species. And I think that explains [159:05] remote remote viewing and telepathy and [159:08] things like that. [159:10] >> I don't know how I got on that. Uh [159:11] >> listen, it makes a lot of sense and it's [159:13] a fascinating conversation and uh [159:17] >> I enjoyed this very much. [159:18] >> I did as well. [159:19] >> Fun. Thank you very much for being here. [159:21] Uh, tell everybody if they want to get a [159:22] hold of your stuff, they want to find [159:23] you, where they could find you on social [159:25] media, where they could find your [159:26] website. [159:27] >> Um, Timothy Alberino on social media, on [159:29] Instagram, on X. Uh, I have a YouTube [159:33] channel, Timothy Alberino. So, I have a [159:35] book called Birthright. Uh, and I also [159:39] published commentary on commentary and [159:43] introduction of the book of Enoch with [159:45] my friends. [159:47] We're gonna have to get to that. That's [159:48] a whole another conversation. I'm [159:50] >> Next time [159:50] >> we're going to have to have that [159:51] conversation. [159:52] >> I would love to. I would love to. Thank [159:53] you very much. [music] My pleasure. [159:55] >> Bye everybody. [159:59] [music]