Apple Lisa UI Diverges From Xerox Star to Disprove Copying Myth

VCF East: Xerox Star vs. Apple Lisa — Vintage Computer Federation

Vintage Computer Federation

While the Apple Lisa drew inspiration from Xerox PARC, its shift to a mouse-driven direct-manipulation interface represents a fundamental engineering divergence rather than a direct copy of the Xerox Star.

AI-assisted summary of VCF East: Xerox Star vs. Apple Lisa — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published:

Key ideas

  • The Xerox Star 8010 and Apple Lisa adopted fundamentally opposing UI paradigms: the Star relied on a two-handed noun-verb model with dedicated physical keyboard command keys, while the Lisa pioneered direct mouse manipulation and pull-down menus. (4:36)
  • Internal computing architectures diverged sharply, as the 1981 Star utilized a custom 16-bit processor built from four 4-bit AMD 2900-series bit-slice chips executing microcode, whereas the 1983 Lisa ran an off-the-shelf Motorola 68000 CPU throttled to 5 MHz. (22:17)
  • Apple transformed experimental mouse engineering into a consumer-viable peripheral, replacing Xerox's costly machined-aluminum, bearing-driven mechanism with an inexpensive injection-molded chassis and optical interrupters costing roughly $40. (31:46)
  • Both machines targeted high-level 'knowledge workers' rather than typists, but the Lisa achieved superior intuitive usability, allowing untrained users to construct integrated text-and-graphics documents in around ten minutes. (15:25)

Detailed notes

## Background Presented by Jason Perkins at the virtual Vintage Computer Festival East 2020 and published to YouTube by the Vintage Computer Federation on December 30, 2020, this presentation compares the graphical user interfaces of the Xerox Star 8010 and the Apple Lisa. Filmed live at the InfoAge Technology Center in Wall, New Jersey, the talk demonstrates live original hardware to examine the design philosophies and functional differences between the two landmark systems.

## TL;DR Presenter Jason Perkins delivers an in-depth hardware and software comparison between the Xerox 8010 Star (running Viewpoint) and the Apple Lisa (running the Lisa Office System) to challenge the persistent myth that Apple simply copied Xerox. Demonstrating live document creation, document editing, and graphic manipulation on both machines, Perkins highlights how the Star uses a two-handed, noun-then-verb paradigm driven by dedicated keyboard keys and microcode, whereas the Lisa champions direct mouse manipulation, pull-down menus, and real-time screen repainting. During a detailed audience Q&A, Perkins explores the internal architectures, including the Star's custom AMD 2900 bit-slice processor and delicate Alps mechanical mouse versus the Lisa's Motorola 68000 and cost-engineered optical mouse. Ultimately, Perkins argues that while both workstations targeted professional 'knowledge workers,' each possesses a fundamentally distinct engineering depth, proving the Lisa was heavily inspired by Xerox rather than an exact copy.

## Atmosphere & style The presentation carries the warm, conversational authenticity of a passionate computer historian delivering a hands-on workshop to a dedicated community of enthusiasts. Viewers experience real-time engineering quirks as they happen—such as adjusting camera settings to tame the Star's flicker-prone 38.5 Hz CRT, diagnosing delayed screen repaints, and chuckling over missing font licenses. The tone is relaxed yet deeply technical, balancing self-deprecating humor and relatable anecdotes with insightful architectural breakdowns of microcode and hardware bus timings.

## Bulletin - [04:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=276s) The Xerox Star 8010 and Apple Lisa adopted fundamentally opposing UI paradigms: the Star relied on a two-handed noun-verb model with dedicated physical keyboard command keys, while the Lisa pioneered direct mouse manipulation and pull-down menus. - [22:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1337s) Internal computing architectures diverged sharply, as the 1981 Star utilized a custom 16-bit processor built from four 4-bit AMD 2900-series bit-slice chips executing microcode, whereas the 1983 Lisa ran an off-the-shelf Motorola 68000 CPU throttled to 5 MHz. - [31:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1906s) Apple transformed experimental mouse engineering into a consumer-viable peripheral, replacing Xerox's costly machined-aluminum, bearing-driven mechanism with an inexpensive injection-molded chassis and optical interrupters costing roughly $40. - [15:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=925s) Both machines targeted high-level 'knowledge workers' rather than typists, but the Lisa achieved superior intuitive usability, allowing untrained users to construct integrated text-and-graphics documents in around ten minutes.

## Key takeaways - [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=2s) The Xerox Star 8010 was housed in a massive, caster-mounted pedestal cabinet featuring seven-segment diagnostic displays and an internal 600 KB 8-inch Shugart floppy drive. - [01:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=75s) The common narrative that Apple simply cloned Xerox's GUI overlooks deep architectural, operational, and hardware differences between the two systems. - [02:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=177s) The Star's monochrome CRT used a 38.5 Hz interlaced refresh rate with dual long-persistence phosphors to produce a high-contrast 'paper white' image. - [04:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=276s) Interactions in Xerox Viewpoint operated on a strict select-key-click sequence using dedicated physical keyboard keys (such as Copy, Move, and Properties) rather than click-and-drag mouse actions. - [08:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=501s) Viewpoint documents required illustrations to sit inside isolated graphics frames populated by copying shapes from digital 'transfer sheet' palettes inspired by rub-on dry transfers. - [08:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=501s) Hardware performance limitations on the Star often required manual 'repaginate' or redisplay commands to force the frame buffer to redraw moved elements. - [12:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=734s) The Apple Lisa eliminated dedicated task keys in favor of single-button mouse manipulation, drag-and-drop tool palettes, pull-down menus, and real-time screen redrawing. - [12:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=734s) Both platforms abandoned traditional application launchers in favor of document stationery templates, but the Lisa automated creation via menu commands and double-clicking. - [15:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=925s) Lisa's integrated Office System enabled seamless cross-application clipboard sharing across LisaDraw, LisaCalc, and charting tools without file conversions. - [17:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1049s) Apple originally conceived the Lisa as a character-based text system in 1979 before pivoting to a bitmapped GUI after viewing Xerox PARC Smalltalk demonstrations. - [19:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1179s) The Xerox Star was the first commercial workstation engineered with built-in 10 Mbps Ethernet via an AUI port, while Apple's early Lisa Ethernet hardware was canceled before release. - [22:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1337s) Extreme hardware costs in the early 1980s were driven primarily by RAM, with the Lisa's 1 MB memory configuration representing roughly $5,000 in raw parts. - [25:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1554s) Xerox enforced strict per-workstation software licensing, actively disabling standard capabilities like bold text formatting if the machine lacked the appropriate license key. - [29:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1744s) The Xerox Star executed its graphics rendering, video scanning, and Mesa runtime directly through loadable microcode rather than discrete blitter chips or static ROM routines. - [35:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=2101s) Neither machine's CPU can be easily overclocked because internal clock rates are rigidly tied to peripheral timing loops, floppy drive signaling, and CRT scan-line drawing. - [38:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=2322s) Both systems were created specifically for high-level knowledge workers dealing with business analysis, presentations, and process problems rather than clerical data entry.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=2s) Physical Hardware of the Xerox Star 8010

Presenter Jason Perkins introduces the Xerox 8010 Star workstation, providing immediate perspective on the sheer physical scale of the machine. Positioned alongside everyday items, the Star's floor-standing main processor cabinet dwarfs contemporary desktop hardware. Perkins holds up a modern 3.5-inch floppy diskette, an 8-inch floppy disk, and a standard Sharpie marker against the massive chassis to emphasize that it is anything but a compact setup.

The front of the cabinet houses the essential user controls and diagnostic readouts. A dedicated maintenance panel features multi-digit seven-segment LED displays that report real-time system status codes and hardware diagnostics during initialization. Flanking these indicators are the system power switch, a hardware reset button, and an alternate boot toggle. Removable storage is handled directly by an internal Shugart 8-inch floppy disk drive capable of storing 600 kilobytes of data per diskette. After showcasing the chassis features, Perkins wheels the heavy enclosure back under the presentation counter to clear workspace for the display, mouse, and keyboard.

- **Storage Media:** Shugart 8-inch floppy disk drive holding 600 KB. - **Diagnostics and Controls:** Front maintenance panel equipped with seven-segment status displays, power switch, hardware reset, and alternate boot selectors. - **Form Factor:** Heavy floor-standing pedestal cabinet mounted on casters.

---

[01:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=75s) Xerox Viewpoint GUI and the Apple Lisa Connection

Perkins moves to the desktop environment, explaining that the graphical operating system running on the 8010 is Xerox Viewpoint (the evolution of the original Star software). While experimental graphical interfaces existed earlier within research laboratories like Xerox PARC, Star Viewpoint was arguably the first commercial graphical user interface engineered and sold for public office use.

Addressing historical debates surrounding Apple's relationship with Xerox, Perkins addresses the common narrative that Apple flatly copied Xerox's work when creating the Lisa. While several software engineers from Xerox famously migrated to Cupertino to develop the Lisa platform, Perkins argues that reducing the relationship to outright copying ignores substantial engineering divergence. Jason Perkins states: “I don't think that's entirely fair to say because while certainly there are concepts in both that were invented on this system that the Lisa implemented, there are enough differences and innovations between these two systems that they each stand on their own.” To illustrate these distinctions, Perkins prepares to walk through retrieving, creating, and editing a visual document on the Star before contrasting the same tasks on the Apple Lisa.

---

[02:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=177s) Display Oddities and Dedicated Keyboard Workflow

Before demonstrating the graphical environment, Perkins and the production team address the visual artifacts appearing on the camera recording. The production team intentionally slows down and adjusts camera playback while zooming in because the Xerox monitor relies on a non-standard 38.5 Hz interlaced refresh rate that causes severe banding and flicker on video. Perkins clarifies that the physical CRT screen utilizes dual phosphors, including a long-persistence phosphor; while the monitor appears noticeably green on video, to an in-person operator it renders a crisp, high-contrast "paper white" image designed to simulate an actual printed sheet.

Turning attention to the physical user interface, Perkins emphasizes that understanding the Xerox Star requires understanding its keyboard. Unlike later desktop computers that delegated nearly all operational commands to on-screen pull-down menus, the Star relies on a distinct two-handed paradigm. The keyboard pairs a standard typewriter core with dedicated clusters of labeled operational keys arranged along the sides and top. Jason Perkins explains: “When you're using the computer, you'll select an object, a file, text, and then operate on it with these function keys, which are you know, like delete, copy, move, properties, skip next, font, margin, stop.” Rather than searching through on-screen menus, the operator indicates an item with the mouse cursor and then dispatches the action with a dedicated hardware key.

- **Display Specifications:** 38.5 Hz interlaced monochrome cathode-ray tube with dual phosphors, presenting a simulated paper-white image. - **Dedicated Function Keys:** Hardware keys including `Delete`, `Copy`, `Move`, `Show Properties`, `Skip`, `Next`, `Font`, `Margin`, and `Stop`. - **Interaction Architecture:** Two-handed noun-then-verb model; objects on screen are highlighted with the mouse, then acted upon via dedicated hardware keystrokes.

---

[04:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=276s) Working with Files and Documents in Viewpoint

To edit a document stored on an 8-inch disk, the operator must first bring the peripheral into the desktop environment. In Viewpoint, all application binaries, file systems, and hardware peripherals reside within a system hierarchical Directory. Perkins navigates into the Directory, opens the "workstation node," drills down into "local devices," and locates the floppy drive icon.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Command Paradigm Comparison between Xerox Star and Apple Lisa accDescr: Flowchart illustrating the contrasting operational steps for manipulating objects on the Xerox Star Viewpoint versus the Apple Lisa.

subgraph Star["Xerox Star (Noun-Verb via Hardware)"] S1["Select Target Object with Mouse"] --> S2["Press Dedicated Key (Copy / Move)"] S2 --> S3["Top Info Bar Prompts for Target"] S3 --> S4["Click Final Desktop Destination"] end

subgraph Lisa["Apple Lisa (Direct Manipulation)"] L1["Click and Hold Object with Mouse"] --> L2["Drag Object Across Screen"] L2 --> L3["Release at Desired Location"] end ```

Moving and manipulating objects in Viewpoint differs fundamentally from modern window managers. Highlighting the floppy drive icon, Perkins taps the physical `Copy` key on the keyboard. The persistent black strip spanning the very top of the screen is not an Apple-style pull-down menu bar; it functions strictly as an information and dialogue prompt area. Upon pressing `Copy`, the message prompt updates to *"Please select a destination,"* and the cursor shifts to an angled transfer arrow. Perkins clicks an open space on the desktop canvas, instantiating the floppy drive shortcut.

Perkins notes that intuitive modern mouse behaviors do not exist here: “There is no click and drag. I can't click and drag this.” Relocating an icon requires selecting it, hitting the physical `Move` key, watching for the information bar prompt, and clicking the final destination coordinate.

Opening the floppy disk reveals its directory listing. Perkins observes a system constraint: files cannot be opened and edited directly from the floppy media; documents must first be copied onto the local desktop workspace using the `Copy` key sequence. Once duplicated onto the desktop, document metadata is altered via the physical `Show Properties` key. Pressing this button spawns a dedicated properties sheet window where parameters such as document titles can be entered and committed with an `Apply` button. Windows support overlapping arrangements and can be dragged by holding the mouse until the info bar confirms destination positioning, while right-clicking allows dynamic window resizing.

- **Top Screen Banner:** Serves as a persistent status, prompt, and error bar rather than an interactive pull-down menu bar. - **Relocation Mechanism:** Strict select-key-click sequence (`Move` key followed by destination click) rather than continuous mouse dragging. - **Storage Constraints:** Documents stored on floppy diskettes are read-only until copied into the local workstation environment.

---

[08:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=501s) Document Editing and the Transfer Sheet Paradigm

Opening a document places it into read-only viewing mode by default until the user explicitly toggles it into edit mode. Within Viewpoint documents, graphic elements cannot simply be drawn anywhere; they must reside inside an explicit bounding box termed a "graphics frame."

To populate artwork into a graphics frame, the Star relies on an intentional skeuomorphic metaphor derived from traditional graphic arts: rub-on carbon transfer sheets. Historically, draftspeople and office workers purchased plastic carrier sheets preprinted with dry-transfer shapes, lettering, and symbols, burnishing them onto paper with a stylus. Viewpoint recreates this exact process digitally through a built-in "basic transfer sheet" palette populated with geometric primitives. Perkins selects a rectangular box from the digital transfer sheet, pushes the physical `Copy` key, and pastes it directly into the document's graphics frame.

Fine-tuning the placed box requires interacting with dynamic "soft keys." When graphics are selected, the row of function keys along the top edge of the physical keyboard correspond to labels rendered dynamically along the top margin of the display. Perkins hits the soft key mapped to "stretch" to pull the rectangle horizontally and vertically, then depresses the `Properties` key to adjust line weight, stroke style, and interior fill patterns. Text frames are handled identically: Perkins copies a text container from the transfer palette, moves it into the box, and types the pangram *"the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"*.

When Perkins attempts to reposition the completed illustration to the bottom of the document layout, the screen fails to refresh, revealing a known hardware performance bottleneck. Perkins remarks that during his initial testing, diagnosing why elements did not move took an hour and a half because the operations had succeeded internally without updating the frame buffer. Jason Perkins explains: “Unfortunately, the system is slow enough they can't always update in real time, so you have to go to one of these little menus at the top and choose to redisplay.” Triggering a manual "repaginating" or redisplay command forces the monitor to blank momentarily while recalculating the visual layout before drawing the shifted graphic in its new location.

- **Graphics Frame Architecture:** Freeform illustrations cannot exist in loose margins; they require an isolated graphics frame container. - **Transfer Sheet Metaphor:** Digital reproduction of commercial rub-on dry-transfer sheets supplying basic shapes, lines, and text frames. - **Soft Keys:** Physical function keys mapped to contextual on-screen actions (such as stretch, shrink, and orientation controls). - **Repagination/Redisplay:** Manual redraw routines required to force the display hardware to refresh complex visual document adjustments.

---

[12:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=734s) Apple Lisa Workflow: Direct Manipulation and LisaDraw

Transitioning across the desk to the Apple Lisa, Perkins turns on the workstation and inserts a floppy diskette. The Lisa immediately demonstrates a stark philosophical divergence: upon insertion, the operating system automatically mounts the disk media and immediately resumes the exact document state left open during the prior session.

Perkins highlights how both systems handle document creation without traditional application launching: “In both of these systems, there is no file new.” Instead of opening an application and selecting an empty file, both systems rely on stationery templates. However, their execution differs completely. On the Star, creating a new document requires finding a template, hitting the physical `Copy` key, and designating a destination coordinate. On the Lisa, an operator simply double-clicks a pad of stationery or uses the mouse to select "Tear off stationery" directly from the pull-down menu.

This operational contrast defines the entire user experience. Jason Perkins observes: “It's it's a very different interaction where and the Xerox it's almost like right hand left hand is each one is doing a um different parts of the operation. And on the Lisa everything is done simply with the mouse and the keyboard has no function keys on it.” The Lisa's keyboard eliminates dedicated action keys in favor of a single Command key modifier, shifting nearly all command issuing, positioning, and window manipulation to the single-button mouse.

Launching LisaDraw, Perkins demonstrates direct manipulation. Tools are chosen directly from an on-screen visual palette, shapes are drawn and dragged across the canvas fluidly with mouse clicks, and pattern fills are applied from pull-down menus without touching the physical keyboard. Perkins creates a box, fills it, layers text inside, drags a selection marquee around both elements, and selects `Group` to combine them into an indivisible graphical object. Copying the graphic, he switches open documents seamlessly using the system Desk menu, pulls down the Edit menu to choose `Paste`, and inserts the illustration into the target document, which automatically redraws its layout in real time.

| Feature / Workflow | Xerox 8010 Star (Viewpoint) | Apple Lisa (Lisa Office System) | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **Primary Input Paradigm** | Two-handed coordination: mouse coordinates target, dedicated keyboard keys execute actions. | Direct manipulation: single-button mouse drives commands, dragging, and tool selection. | | **Keyboard Design** | Complex layout with dedicated clusters (`Copy`, `Move`, `Properties`, `Delete`, soft keys). | Streamlined typewriter keyboard with Command modifier key; no dedicated task function keys. | | **Document Creation** | Target stationery template on desktop, press `Copy` key, click destination point. | Tear off stationery pad via mouse pull-down menu or double-click gesture. | | **Graphics Workflow** | Copy shapes out of a digital "transfer sheet" into an isolated graphics frame container. | Dedicated vector drawing application (LisaDraw) utilizing a persistent visual tool palette. | | **Display Repainting** | Often requires explicit manual "redisplay" or "repaginate" calls to update the frame buffer. | Automatic real-time layout recalculation and screen repainting upon pasting or resizing. |

[15:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=925s) Business Graphics and Document Assembly on the Lisa

Demonstrating the integrated office capabilities of the Apple Lisa, Jason shows how easily different media types combine into a single document. He displays vector-based illustrations, noting that while the graphics redraw cleanly during navigation, scrolling through complex vector images is definitely sluggish on the hardware. To illustrate the seamless workflow, he explains how he created a composite chart: he generated a basic pie chart in the dedicated charting tool, pasted it into LisaDraw to pull out an individual wedge for emphasis, and brought in tabular data directly from LisaCalc. Every element was transferred with standard copy-and-paste commands without needing to issue cumbersome conversion instructions.

To test just how intuitive this workflow was, Jason conducted an informal usability experiment prior to the festival. He sat several newcomers down in front of the Lisa—people who had never touched the machine before—and asked them to produce a finished page containing both formatted text and an illustration, offering them virtually no guidance. Every participant succeeded without trouble. Jason shares with a laugh that even their roommate, who was about six beers in at the time, managed to figure it out and produce a complete document in around ten minutes. Reflecting on how Apple adapted Xerox’s initial breakthroughs, Jason observes: “So the refinements that Apple did building upon concepts started with the Star really makes this software I think, a a big iteration compared to this earlier system.”

- Complex vector illustrations redraw on the fly during document scrolling, though performance slows noticeably on intricate graphics. - Applications featured include the dedicated business charting tool, the drawing program (LisaDraw), and the spreadsheet (LisaCalc), all sharing a unified clipboard. - Novice users given minimal instruction were able to assemble mixed-media documents in roughly ten minutes.

---

[17:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1049s) Display Resolution and System Lineage

Opening the presentation to the Vintage Computer Festival Discord Q&A, Jason addresses an attendee's question regarding the Xerox Star’s crisp monochrome display. The Star features a resolution of 1024 by 809 pixels. Its video subsystem drives an illuminated, borderless CRT canvas where an active bitmap region displays application data while an outer border texture fills the remainder of the viewable raster area.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Evolution of GUI Systems from Alto to Lisa accDescr: Diagram tracing Xerox Alto research to Xerox Star and Apple Lisa development milestones.

subgraph XeroxPath["Xerox PARC Lineage"] Alto["1972: Xerox Alto<br>(PARC Research Platform)"] Star["1981: Xerox Star 8010<br>(Commercial Workstation)"] Alto -->|"Engineers & concepts"| Star end

subgraph ApplePath["Apple Computer Lineage"] LisaText["1979: Apple Lisa Project<br>(Originally text-based UI)"] LisaGUI["1979–1980: GUI Pivot<br>(Inspired by Smalltalk demo)"] LisaShip["1983: Apple Lisa Ships<br>(Modern desktop filer UI)"] LisaText -->|"Xerox demo visit"| LisaGUI LisaGUI -->|"UI overhaul 6 mos before ship"| LisaShip end

Alto -.->|"Smalltalk GUI demo"| LisaGUI ```

The discussion turns to the development timelines and shared heritage of both platforms. Jason explains that the Star was developed by the same engineering talent responsible for the groundbreaking Xerox Alto of 1972, culminating in the commercial launch of the Star 8010 in 1981. Meanwhile, Apple began developing the Lisa in 1979. The Lisa was initially conceived with an entirely character-based text interface. That trajectory changed fundamentally after Apple executives and engineers were invited to Xerox PARC to view Smalltalk demonstrations showcasing overlapping windows and mouse-driven interaction. Apple immediately pivoted the project toward a bitmapped GUI, later overhauling the desktop filer interface roughly six months before the Lisa’s commercial release in 1983 into the desktop metaphor that remains standard today.

---

[19:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1179s) Networking Architecture and File Servers

Fielding questions on connectivity, Jason highlights that the Xerox Star holds a historic milestone as the first commercial computer engineered from the ground up with 10 Mbps Ethernet support. The back of the chassis features a standard Attachment Unit Interface (AUI) port, allowing users to attach an external transceiver and connect the vintage workstation directly to modern twisted-pair Ethernet switches with standard cabling modules.

Inside Apple, engineers developed an Ethernet-like network architecture alongside proprietary network cards for the Lisa. Although the hardware was completed and deployed internally throughout Apple’s offices and manufacturing facilities, it was ultimately canceled before shipping to consumers. The networking software stack survived, however, evolving into AppleTalk and rolling out over the RS-422 serial ports of the Lisa and subsequent Macintosh computers. When asked if either workstation could operate as an ad-hoc local file server, Jason points out key software boundaries:

- **Apple Lisa:** Shipped strictly as a standalone workstation under the Lisa Office System; networking was limited to serial terminal emulation for mainframe text transfer, with planned local file sharing never reaching release. - **Xerox Star:** In its standard workstation configuration running Xerox ViewPoint (or Star office software), the machine operates as a network client; running file-server tasks required distinct Xerox server operating software and dedicated mass-storage configurations.

---

[22:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1337s) Processing Architecture, RAM Costs, and the Learning Curve

Responding to an audience comment comparing the systems' visual pacing to modern electronic paper screens, Jason contrasts their internal hardware architectures. The Lisa relies on an off-the-shelf Motorola 68000 CPU clocked at 5 MHz. The Xerox Star, having been architected years earlier when commercial 16-bit microprocessors were either nonexistent or inadequate for bitmapped computing, contains no monolithic microprocessor. Instead, Xerox built a custom CPU out of four 4-bit AMD 2900-series bit-slice chips coupled with proprietary microcode to execute 16-bit operations, yielding overall performance roughly comparable to a Macintosh Plus.

| Machine | CPU Architecture | RAM Capacity | Era Context / Cost | |:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **Xerox Star** (1981) | Custom 16-bit CPU via four 4-bit AMD bit-slice processors running microcode | 768 KB (standard/max configuration shown) | Equivalent compute power to a Mac Plus; predecessor to off-the-shelf 16-bit chips | | **Apple Lisa** (1983) | Motorola 68000 @ 5 MHz | 1 MB (1,024 KB) standard | RAM alone cost Apple ~$5,000 per machine in raw parts; contemporary home PCs had 64 KB |

Both platforms were extraordinarily expensive, with RAM chips accounting for a huge percentage of their manufacturing bill of materials. When asked about his personal experience mastering each interface, Jason explains that anyone familiar with System 7, Mac OS 8, or Mac OS 9 will feel right at home on the Lisa. “The Lisa, if—uh I'll quote the comment of my husband, the if you've used a classic Mac OS, uh you know, system 7 8 9, the Lisa is very familiar,” Jason notes, explaining that the primary conceptual hurdle is the Lisa's stationery-pad, document-centric metaphor rather than opening an application directly. The Xerox Star, by contrast, proved far more challenging. Jason spent many hours training on the Living Computer Museum’s software emulator and studying vintage video demonstrations from the original engineering team just to grasp core interactions, remarking that it took him an hour and a half simply to figure out how to transfer graphics into a text frame.

---

[25:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1554s) Software Licensing and Hard Drives

Turning back to the Discord feed, Jason addresses whether the Star supported peer-to-peer sharing. While recalling that Xerox showcased distributed networking, central print spoolers, and remote file servers at events like the 1998 ACM SIGCHI conference—where users printed simply by selecting a document, pressing the `Copy` key, and clicking a network printer icon—he notes that Xerox enforced tight commercial control over individual workstations. Xerox aimed to collect recurring fees on every workstation feature, requiring unique software license keys to unlock basic capabilities. Demonstrating this live, Jason highlights a block of text using the Star's two-button mouse convention (left-click to anchor the start, right-click to define the end) and presses the `Properties` key to display the formatting sheet:

> “Corey, if you could pull in on this line when I click apply, you'll see what happens. Uh if I click apply, oops. We're not licensed for bold. So, uh there is a lot more functionality in this system that this particular instance doesn't have right now.”

The segment concludes with a discussion of storage hardware. Jason explains that the Star workstation uses an 8-inch hard drive based on the Shugart Associates SA1000 interface, which originally came in capacities such as 10 megabytes to store the microcode, operating software, and local desktop files.

[29:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1744s) Storage Hardware and the Role of Microcode

Jason Perkins discusses the storage configurations of both machines on display. Originally, the Xerox Star system came with either a 60 MB (or 63 MB) or an 83 MB hard drive, but it no longer uses the original spinning disk. Instead, it relies on an MFM emulator board designed by David Gesswein, built around a BeagleBone single-board computer using solid-state storage. Jason emphasizes the importance of this modern preservation effort: “We would not I would not be able to get this demo without the work that he did.” The Apple Lisa demonstrated is also fitted with a modern replacement hard drive; while not solid-state, it is significantly faster and far quieter than the original Apple 10 MB drive. The hosts joke that if the Lisa were running its factory drive, the roar would drown out everyone in the room—an amusing irony given that the machine was marketed for quiet corporate offices.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Drive and Microcode Architecture accDescr: Diagram showing how modern storage emulation feeds the Xerox Star's microcode-driven graphics pipeline versus the Lisa's ROM toolbox.

subgraph StarStorage["Xerox Star Setup"] BB["BeagleBone MFM Emulator<br/>(David Gesswein)"] --> MBR["Minimal Boot ROM"] MBR --> MC["Loadable Microcode<br/>(Drives logic, CRT scan lines)"] MC --> Mesa["Mesa Language Runtime"] end

subgraph LisaStorage["Apple Lisa Setup"] HD["Modern Hard Disk<br/>(Replaces 10 MB Drive)"] --> LisaROM["Lisa ROM Toolbox /<br/>MacWorks in RAM"] LisaROM --> Pascal["Pascal & 68000 Assembly"] end ```

When asked whether the Star utilizes dedicated hardware blitter circuitry for graphics manipulation, Jason clarifies that the machine relies on custom microcode rather than discrete TTL graphics hardware like the Lisa. The Xerox architecture features a minimal boot ROM that quickly hands off control to loadable microcode: “Loadable Yeah, it's everything on the Star is in microcode.” Unlike the Lisa—which relies heavily on its built-in ROM toolbox or loads Mac system ROM into RAM when running MacWorks—the Star executes its core graphics operations, screen refresh, and operating environment straight out of microcode.

- The Xerox Star originally came with a 60/63 MB or 83 MB hard drive; it currently boots from David Gesswein’s BeagleBone-based MFM emulator. - The Lisa on stage uses an upgraded, quieter hard drive rather than the notoriously loud original Apple 10 MB drive. - Xerox Star graphics and logic are driven by downloadable microcode rather than dedicated blitter chips.

---

[31:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=1906s) Museum Status and the Tale of Two Mice

Addressing viewer questions about hardware upgrade plans, the hosts clarify that the Xerox Star belongs to the Vintage Computer Federation (VCF) Museum at InfoAge. Outside of pandemic-related capacity restrictions, visitors can see and actually interact with the machine. Jason and his co-host note that this machine is likely the only working Xerox Star currently on public display in the world that members of the public are permitted to touch.

This discussion prompts Jason to highlight the radical engineering contrast between the Xerox mouse and the Apple Lisa mouse:

| Component | Xerox Star Mouse (Alps Electric) | Apple Lisa Mouse | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **Housing & Frame** | Machined aluminum clamped together | Injection-molded plastic frame | | **Ball & Tracking** | Heavy steel ball bearing on steel-caged ball bearings | Removable rubberized ball held by a twist-lock plastic ring | | **Rollers & Encoders** | Steel rollers; encoder drums with delicate contacting wire fingers | Plastic rollers on metal shafts (no bearings); optical LED interrupter wheels | | **Manufacturing** | Intricate, likely hand-soldered, delicate, costly | Mass-manufactured, simplified, cost Apple around $40 | | **Maintenance** | Fragile; requires complete, risky disassembly to clean | Easily twisted open by the user to dump and clean the ball |

Jason describes the Xerox mouse as “a beautiful piece of mechanical engineering inside” that was generously donated to VCF, but warns of its real-world shortcomings: “This is an amazing bit of machining and craftsmanship that is very delicate, sensitive to dirt, and difficult to clean.” In contrast, the Lisa mouse stripped out luxury materials in favor of inexpensive opto-interrupters and injection molding: “This was something that was cheap enough to put on everyone's desk.”

---

[35:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=2101s) Architecture: Daybreak, Mesa vs. Pascal, and Timing Loops

Jason confirms that the museum's Xerox Star is effectively at its maximum configuration, leaving no further hardware upgrades to perform. He mentions that Xerox later released the Daybreak (Xerox 6085), which condensed the Star's multi-board architecture into a smaller enclosure with fewer chips and faster peripheral processors. At its heart, however, the Daybreak still executed microcode to interpret Mesa, Xerox’s proprietary object-oriented programming language. In comparison, the Lisa's software was authored predominantly in Pascal alongside Motorola 68000 assembly language. While Pascal was less CPU-efficient than the tight, hand-crafted machine code later required by the memory-starved 128K Macintosh, it granted Lisa engineers an exceptionally productive and flexible high-level development environment.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: System Bottlenecks and Timing Interlocking accDescr: Comparison of how CPU speed in both systems is locked directly to peripherals and CRT refresh rates.

subgraph LisaTiming["Apple Lisa Interlocking"] LCPU["Motorola 68000<br/>(Rated 8 MHz, run at 5 MHz)"] LCPU --- LVideo["Drives Video Clock"] LCPU --- LFloppy["Controls Floppy Timing"] end

subgraph StarTiming["Xerox Star Interlocking"] SCPU["Microcoded Processor Tasks"] SCPU --- T1["Task: Background Logic"] SCPU --- T2["Task: Bit-banging Graphics"] SCPU --- T3["Task: Draw CRT Scan Line"] Emu["Dark Star Emulator"] -.->|"Requires Clock Limiter"| SCPU end ```

When a viewer asks whether modern optimizing compilers or faster CPUs could dramatically speed up redraws and system operations, Jason explains why the hardware cannot simply be overclocked. Both systems run software intimately intertwined with the bare metal: - **Lisa clock lock:** The Lisa’s 68000 processor is rated for 8 MHz but is throttled to 5 MHz because that exact clock also drives the video display timing and floppy disk controller. Increasing CPU frequency disrupts peripheral timing and breaks the Lisa Office System. - **Xerox bit-banged video:** The Xerox processor acts much like the Apollo Guidance Computer featured on CuriousMarc's channel, cycling through scheduled micro-tasks. One mandatory task is manually bit-banging and drawing individual CRT scan lines: “You can't speed up the processor without it throwing everything else off.” - **Emulator clock limiting:** Jason notes that the Dark Star emulator software includes an explicit clock-speed limiter because running the emulated Star microcode too fast causes the operating system to crash.

---

[38:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=2322s) The Xerox PARC Legacy and the Knowledge Worker

In the final question of the session, an audience member asks which division within Xerox developed and sold the Star, and who the intended customer was. Jason explains that while he is primarily an Apple Lisa specialist, the technology originated at Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center) under what he recalls as the Advanced Products team.

Jason stresses that both Xerox and Apple aimed their systems at an identical demographic: “The intended audience for this, actually the intended audience for both of these systems is the same. It was the knowledge worker, the person who is not a typist, who is not clerical, but is someone who is dealing with ideas and preparing presentations and charts and solving business process issues.” Rather than replacing pool typists, these machines were intended as high-level professional workstations. The host concludes by expressing gratitude for the live demonstration, noting how rare it is to see a real Xerox Star operational and observing that having both computers running side-by-side finally cuts through the simplistic pop-history myth that “Apple stole from Xerox.”

[40:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk&t=2451s) Inspiration Versus Duplication and Final Wrap-up

Jason Perkins addresses the enduring pop-culture myth—frequently dramatized in movies and popular histories—that Apple simply stole its graphical user interface wholesale from Xerox. While acknowledging that core paradigms and visual elements pioneered by Xerox undeniably made their way into the Apple Lisa, he stresses that the relationship between the two environments is far more nuanced than simple duplication. He recalls a comparison video he previously produced for his YouTube channel, which prompted Andy to invite him to present at VCF East, where he compared the Lisa Office System to Digital Research's GEM (DRI GEM). In that scenario, DRI GEM replicated the outward look and feel of the Apple desktop environment without capturing the genuine architectural depth of functionality running underneath.

By contrast, the dynamic between the Xerox Star and the Apple Lisa is fundamentally different. While both platforms share visual motifs and foundational desktop concepts, each system engineered its own deep, highly distinct functionality and operational model behind the screen. Jason concludes that while the Lisa was undeniably inspired by Xerox's groundbreaking work, it was by no means a clone, delivering a fitting pun to summarize his verdict: “Inspired by yes, copied exactly. This is not a Xerox of this.” Wrapping up his presentation, Jason thanks the audience and introduces the next Vintage Computer Festival East session, welcoming Ian Primus to present on CRT monitor repair.

- **Look-and-feel comparisons**: Jason contrasts Apple's relationship with Xerox against Digital Research's GEM, noting that DRI GEM mimicked Apple's surface aesthetics without implementing the deep underlying functionality. - **Independent depth**: Both the Xerox Star and Apple Lisa feature rich, highly evolved functional architectures that diverge significantly in how actions, document models, and desktop metaphors actually operate. - **Next up on the schedule**: Jason transitions the stream over to Ian Primus for a technical presentation on CRT repair.

## Mentioned Xerox Star 8010, Apple Lisa, Jason Perkins, Xerox Viewpoint, Xerox PARC, Shugart Associates, LisaDraw, LisaCalc, Motorola 68000, AMD 2900, Mesa, David Gesswein, BeagleBone, Alps Electric, Xerox Daybreak, Dark Star, AppleTalk, Vintage Computer Federation, Digital Research GEM, Ian Primus

## Video description 0:00 Start of Video 1:43 First Commercial GUI 8:06 Editing Document 12:30 Apple Lisa 17:43 Q & A 33:18 Star Mouse Detail 42:20 Wrap up

A Live presentation by Jason Perkins at Vintage Computer Festival East 2020, a virtual event held October 10th & 11th, 2020.

Jason compares the UI from the Xerox Star to the UI in the Apple Lisa.

Filmed at the Vintage Computer Festival East 2020 at InfoAge Technology Center, Camp Evans, in Wall New Jersey.

Vintage Computer Federation: https://vcfed.org VCF Discord: https://discord.gg/u4ybsBK

#vcfeast #vintagecomputerfestival #vintagecomputers #vintagecomputerfederation

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiWtJJN5zk)

中文简报

Apple Lisa用户界面与施乐Star大相径庭，打破抄袭传闻 尽管Apple Lisa曾从施乐PARC汲取灵感，但其转向以鼠标驱动的直接操作界面代表了根本性的工程分歧，而非对施乐Star的直接抄袭。 主讲人Jason Perkins对施乐8010 Star（运行Viewpoint）与Apple Lisa（运行Lisa Office System）进行了深入的软硬件对比，以反驳有关苹果单纯抄袭施乐的长期传言。Perkins现场演示了两台设备上的文档创建、编辑及图形操作，强调了Star采用依赖专用键盘按键和微码的双手机制与“先名词后动词”范式，而Lisa则主打鼠标直接操作、下拉菜单以及实时屏幕重绘。在详尽的现场问答环节中，Perkins探讨了内部架构，包括Star定制的AMD 2900位片处理器及精密的Alps机械鼠标，对比Lisa采用的摩托罗拉68000处理器及经过成本优化的光电鼠标。Perkins最终指出，尽管两款工作站都面向专业的“知识工作者”，但各自具有截然不同的工程深度，这证明Lisa深受施乐启发，但绝非完全照抄。 施乐Star 8010与Apple Lisa采用了根本对立的用户界面范式：Star依赖基于物理键盘专用命令键的双手机制与“名词-动词”模型，而Lisa则开创了鼠标直接操作和下拉菜单的先河。 (4:36) 两者的内部计算架构截然不同：1981年的Star采用由四颗4位AMD 2900系列位片芯片构建、用于执行微码的定制16位处理器；而1983年的Lisa则采用了降频至5 MHz的现成摩托罗拉68000 CPU。 (22:17) 苹果将实验性的鼠标工程设计转化为面向消费者的实用外设，用成本约40美元的廉价注塑底盘和光电遮断器，取代了施乐成本高昂的机加工铝制轴承驱动机构。 (31:46) 两台机器都面向高端“知识工作者”而非打字员，但Lisa实现了更出色的直观易用性，使未经培训的用户也能在约十分钟内制作出图文混排的文档。 (15:25)

Reading summary

Presenting at Vintage Computer Festival East, Jason Perkins demonstrates that while the Apple Lisa drew profound inspiration from Xerox PARC's pioneering work, the Xerox Star 8010 and Apple Lisa implemented fundamentally distinct interaction models and hardware architectures. Two-Handed Hardware Commands Versus Direct Manipulation (2:57) The Xerox Star relies on a two-handed noun-verb operational model rather than modern continuous mouse gestures. Users designate an on-screen object with the mouse and execute operations using dedicated physical function keys—such as Delete, Copy, Move, and Show Properties—alongside contextual soft keys mapped dynamically along the display. Relocating an item requires pressing Move and clicking the target destination, as Viewpoint lacks click-and-drag capabilities, and its persistent top banner acts as a status and prompt line rather than an interactive menu bar. In contrast, the Apple Lisa standardizes single-button direct manipulation. The Lisa's keyboard eliminates dedicated action keys in favor of a Command modifier, shifting window handling, command execution, and tool selection to the mouse and top pull-down menus. Moving items occurs via continuous mouse dragging, and document generation uses a virtual tear-off stationery pad rather than the Star's multi-step sequence of finding a template, hitting the physical Copy key, and designating destination coordinates. Document Architecture and Graphical Editing Models (8:21) In Xerox Viewpoint, graphics must reside inside discrete graphics frames and are constructed using a skeuomorphic metaphor based on commercial rub-on dry-transfer sheets. Users copy primitive geometric shapes and text frames from a basic transfer sheet palette into the container, adjusting properties via soft keys and metadata sheets. Because complex adjustments often fail to update the display frame buffer in real time, operators must trigger manual redisplay or repagination routines to force visual recalculation. Conversely, the Lisa handles business graphics through integrated, dedicated applications like LisaDraw and LisaCalc connected by a unified system clipboard. Users draw and modify vector artwork directly with visual tool palettes, group visual components, and transfer data seamlessly across applications without manual format conversions. The Lisa redraws layout adjustments automatically, and Perkins notes that novice users in an informal trial produced integrated text-and-graphics documents with minimal instruction in roughly ten minutes. Microcoded Bit-Slice Processing Versus Monolithic Hardware (22:17) Behind the display, the systems reflect different eras of microcomputing. Architected before commercial 16-bit microprocessors were viable for bitmapped displays, the 1981 Xerox Star utilizes a custom 16-bit CPU constructed from four 4-bit AMD 2900-series bit-slice chips executing downloadable microcode. This microcode directly handles background logic, CRT scan-line drawing, and runtime interpretation of the Mesa programming language. The Star was also engineered from the outset with 10 Mbps Ethernet networking via an Attachment Unit Interface (AUI). The 1983 Apple Lisa employs an off-the-shelf Motorola 68000 CPU paired with 1 MB of RAM, with system software authored in Pascal and assembly. Neither workstation permits standard CPU overclocking due to strict hardware timing interlocks: the Star's processor manually bit-bangs display scan lines within scheduled micro-tasks, while the Lisa throttles its 8 MHz-rated 68000 to 5 MHz because that shared clock directly drives video raster timing and the floppy disk controller. Divergent Manufacturing and Commercial Strategies (31:46) The physical mice of both computers reflect contrasting manufacturing philosophies. The Xerox mouse features a clamped, machined aluminum housing, a heavy steel ball resting on steel-caged ball bearings, and steel rollers with delicate contacting wire fingers—an intricate, expensive mechanism that is difficult to clean. Apple redesigned the peripheral for affordable mass manufacturing, utilizing an injection-molded plastic frame, optical LED interrupter wheels, and an easily removable rubberized ball with a twist-lock ring that cost Apple roughly $40 to produce. Commercial software deployment also differed substantially. Xerox enforced fine-grained licensing restrictions on workstations, requiring specific license keys even for standard typographical controls like bold text. In contrast, the Lisa Office System shipped as a self-contained productivity bundle, though it functioned strictly as an isolated desktop environment; Apple's internal Ethernet-style office networking hardware was canceled before release, leaving local connectivity to serial-based AppleTalk protocols on later machines. Perkins concludes that while Apple adopted core graphical concepts after seeing Xerox PARC demonstrations, the Lisa was not a mere clone of the Star. Both platforms targeted the non-clerical knowledge worker, but each engineered an independent, deeply developed operational architecture behind the graphical interface.

精炼阅读摘要

主讲人 Jason Perkins 在复古计算机节（VCF East）的演示中指出，尽管流行文化常将苹果 Lisa 视作对施乐（Xerox）技术的直接抄袭，但两款系统在交互范式、底层架构与工程路线上存在本质分歧。Lisa 虽然继承了施乐 PARC 开创的图形界面概念，但苹果团队进行了大幅重构与深度工程迭代，使两台面向知识工作者的设备各自具备独立的系统价值。 交互范式：双键硬件驱动与直接操纵 (2:57) 施乐 8010 Star 运行的 Viewpoint 系统采用了高度依赖双手的“名词-动词”交互模型。操作者需要右手操纵鼠标选定目标对象（名词），再通过左手按压物理键盘周围的专用任务按键（动词，如 Delete、Copy、Move、Show Properties、Font 等）来派发命令。屏幕顶部的黑色长条并非现代意义的下拉菜单栏，而仅作为操作引导与错误提示区域。在 Star 的文件系统与桌面上，完全不存在现代鼠标的点击拖拽（click and drag）行为；移动图标必须先选中、按下物理 Move 键，等待顶部状态栏提示目标位置后，再点击最终坐标落点。此外，软盘中的文档默认只读，必须经由物理按键完整复制到本地桌面空间后方可调用属性表修改与编辑。 与之形成鲜明对比的是，1983 年推出的 Apple Lisa 确立了现代图形界面的“直接操纵”（Direct Manipulation）范式。Lisa 精简了键盘结构，彻底去除了专用的物理功能按键，仅保留单一 Command 修饰键，将所有窗口管理、文件拖放与命令执行全部转交给单键鼠标。在 Lisa Office System 中，用户无需经由多步骤的按键确认，即可通过鼠标长按直接拖动文件与图形，并利用屏幕顶部的下拉菜单完成全局交互。Perkins 强调，这种从“双手分工按键驱动”向“单键鼠标全图形拖拽”的转变，构成了两个系统最根本的体验分水岭。 文档隐喻与图形工作流：转印纸与集成绘图 (8:21) 在文档创建逻辑上，两款机器均摒弃了传统的“新建空文件”概念，改为基于信纸（Stationery）模板展开，但具体实现路径迥异。在 Xerox Star 中，排版图形具有严格的边界容器限制，所有矢量插图必须局限在特定的“图形框”内，不能在页边空白处任意涂绘。为了在框内绘制元素，Viewpoint 采用了源自传统绘图室的“干印转印纸”（transfer sheet）拟物化隐喻：用户需从预置的数字转印面板中选中几何图元，按下 Copy 物理键粘贴至图形框，再配合键盘顶部的动态可变“软按键”（soft keys）进行拉伸变形。受制于硬件性能，Star 在完成排版位移后往往无法即时刷新帧缓冲区，操作者必须手动从顶部菜单选择重新分页（repaginate）或重新显示，强行触发屏幕消隐以重绘版面。 Apple Lisa 则通过内置的 LisaDraw 绘图应用展示了更为现代的图形处理流。Lisa 提供了常驻屏幕左侧的可视化绘图工具箱，用户可以使用鼠标直接圈选矩形、填充网格图案，并通过鼠标拉出选框将文字与形状一键编组为不可分割的复合对象。得益于系统级的通用剪贴板，Lisa 能够将来自 LisaCalc 的表格数据、商业图表工具生成的饼图与 LisaDraw 的图形无缝交叉粘贴，文档排版在黏贴后会自动执行实时重新渲染。Perkins 在演示前针对毫无操作经验的初学者进行了可用性测试，受试者在没有指导的情况下仅用约十分钟便掌握了多媒体混排流程，证明了 Lisa 工作流在直觉化上的显著突破。 硬件架构与时钟锁定：位片微码与商用芯片 (22:17) 两款设备的内部计算核心反映了各自诞生年代的工程妥协。1981 年发布的 Xerox Star 由于缺乏满足位图运算要求的商用 16 位微处理器，完全没有采用单片式 CPU，而是利用四颗 4 位 AMD 2900 系列位片（bit-slice）芯片配合专用微码构建了自定义 16 位处理引擎。Star 配备 768 KB 内存与 1024×809 高分辨率单色显示器（采用 38.5 Hz 隔行扫描双荧光粉 CRT 以呈现纸质白质感）。其硬件仅内置微型引导 ROM，随后将逻辑控制、窗口运算乃至阴极射线管光栅扫描线的逐行生成任务全数交由可加载微码驱动。由于处理器微任务与视频信号生成直接耦合，任何对硬件时钟的擅自超频都会破坏光栅同步，连现代的 Dark Star 仿真器都必须强制内建降速时钟限制器以防系统崩溃。 相比之下，Apple Lisa 采用了主频 5 MHz 的摩托罗拉 68000 商用 CPU，并标配了在当时造价高昂的 1 MB 内存（仅 RAM 芯片成本在当时就高达约 5,000 美元）。Lisa 的软件由高层级的 Pascal 语言与部分汇编语言编写，尽管运行效率略低，但极大提升了开发灵活性。然而，Lisa 同样存在严密的硬件时序互锁限制：虽然机内的 68000 芯片额定主频为 8 MHz，但苹果为了使其精确驱动视频显示时钟与软驱控制器，将其降频至 5 MHz 运行，导致整个系统同样无法脱离底层物理时钟单独进行超频加速。 工业设计与商业落地：精工原型与量产办公机 (31:46) 在周边硬件与商业化设计上，两家企业展现出全然不同的工业理念。Xerox Star 的鼠标由 Alps Electric 制造，内部采用精密的机械加工铝制框架、高重量钢制滚珠轴承、钢质传动滚轴以及极其脆弱的金属触须接触式编码器。Perkins 评价其为工艺卓越但极其脆弱的机械奢侈品，日常使用中微小的灰尘即可导致失灵，且必须经历高风险的完全拆解方能清理。相反，苹果为 Lisa 开发的鼠标改用注塑塑料骨架、表面包胶的橡胶球体与无接触的光电编码轮，用户旋转底圈即可取出滚珠除尘；苹果成功将单个鼠标的制造成本压缩至约 40 美元，奠定了大规模消费级量产的基础。 在系统互联与商业模式层面，Xerox Star 是历史上首款原生搭载 10 Mbps 以太网（AUI 接口）的商用计算机，支持连接网络打印机与远程文件服务器，但施乐推行了极为苛刻的按功能计费策略——每台工作站的基础文字排版功能（例如给文本加粗）都需要购买独立的软件许可证密钥方能解锁。而苹果虽然为 Lisa 研发了专用局域网硬件并在公司内部进行了部署，但最终取消了网络硬件的公开发售，转而专注于单机环境下的 Lisa Office System 办公套件。尽管两台设备都将目标受众精准锁定为处理商业决策与报告图表的“知识工作者”（knowledge worker），但施乐倾向于将 Star 打造为受中心管控的昂贵网络终端，而苹果则着眼于交付功能自足、即买即用的个人工作站。 Jason Perkins 总结认为，施乐 Star 与苹果 Lisa 之间的联系绝非外界流传的“苹果偷窃施乐创意”那般简单。施乐 PARC 确实构筑了图形用户界面、以太网与桌面出版的理论先河与原型，但 Apple Lisa 在人机工程学、单键直接操纵模型、低成本外设制造以及多应用数据互通上实现了脱胎换骨的自主重构。两者是同一种技术愿景在不同工程约束与商业哲学下的独立分支，Lisa 绝非施乐系统的廉价复印品。

Original transcript

[0:02] Hi, I'm Jason Perkins and today I'm [0:04] going to be giving a demo of VCS Xerox [0:08] 8010 Star. [0:10] Uh first of all, I wanted to show [0:13] the actual size of this thing. So, this [0:15] is the main cabinet of the [0:17] Star 8010 workstation. [0:20] For reference, this is a 3 and 1/2 in [0:22] disk. [0:24] This is an 8 in disk and then, you know, [0:25] regular Sharpie. So, it's [0:27] It is not a a small system. [0:32] The front [0:35] of the machine [0:37] there is a [0:39] a maintenance panel with uh [0:42] some seven-segment displays that give a [0:44] the current status of the machine, [0:47] a reset, alternate boot, and your power [0:49] switch. [0:51] It has a Shugart [0:53] 8 in floppy drive. [0:59] Which holds 600 kilobytes. [1:03] I'm just going to wheel this [1:05] back under here [1:08] so that it's out of the way. All right. [1:15] The [1:17] graphical interface that the Star uses [1:19] is called Viewpoint and is [1:24] arguably the first commercial graphical [1:27] user interface. Certainly, there were [1:28] ones that existed before this. [1:31] This was really the first one meant for [1:35] public consumption. [1:39] It's often been said that [1:43] Apple copied Xerox [1:46] and the ideas that the Star had with the [1:49] Lisa and certainly a lot of people who [1:52] worked on the software on this [1:55] moved to Apple and developed the [1:59] software for the Lisa. [2:01] But, [2:03] I don't think that's entirely fair to [2:05] say because [2:07] while certainly there are concepts in [2:09] both that were invented on this system [2:11] that the Lisa implemented, there are [2:14] enough differences and innovations [2:16] between these two systems that they each [2:19] stand on their own. [2:22] So, [2:24] first thing I'd like to show you on the [2:26] Star is uh [2:29] on that diskette, I have a document and [2:32] I want to edit it. [2:35] So, [2:39] I need to retrieve the file from the [2:40] disk. [2:42] Before I go into [2:44] the graphical user interface, the first [2:46] thing I need to show you is the keyboard [2:49] of the Xerox 8010 [2:52] uh because it's very integral to how [2:54] this system works. [2:57] So, we should mention everyone you might [2:58] see us slowing the video down and [3:01] speeding up. The um the Xerox system [3:04] used a very very very strange refresh [3:08] rate. [3:09] So, we are slowing the video down [3:11] intentionally as we zoom in so that you [3:13] don't have as many artifacts. So, uh it [3:16] may seem a little weird while you're [3:18] watching his hands move, but trust me it [3:21] makes it a lot easier to see. We'll [3:22] switch it back when we when we zoom out. [3:25] Yeah, it's a it's a 38.5 [3:29] Hz interlaced display. [3:32] Um [3:35] with a with a long with a two phosphors, [3:37] one of which is long persistent. So, in [3:38] in person, [3:40] the screen does not look this green. Um [3:43] it's it's a paper white screen. [3:46] Uh so, on the keyboard, [3:48] you see we have the normal typewriter [3:50] keys and then off to the side, there are [3:53] these uh clusters of function keys. [4:00] And [4:01] these are critical for the operation of [4:03] the system. [4:06] The [4:08] When you're using the computer, you'll [4:09] select an object, a file, text, and then [4:13] operate on it with these function keys, [4:16] which are you know, like delete, copy, [4:18] move, properties, skip next, [4:23] font, margin, stop. So, [4:27] um [4:29] a lot of the functions to make the [4:31] computer work are on the keyboard. [4:33] They're not on the screen. [4:36] So, [4:38] we need to get our floppy drive. [4:40] On the Star [4:43] Viewpoint operating system, all of your [4:46] software and [4:48] system utilities live inside the [4:51] directory. So, I'm going to go ahead and [4:54] open that up [4:57] and go into the [4:59] workstation node. [5:03] Go into my local devices, [5:06] and then [5:08] here is my floppy drive. [5:11] So, I'm going to click on that. [5:13] I'm going to push the copy key on the [5:16] keyboard. [5:18] And then [5:21] this bar at the top of the screen is not [5:24] a menu bar. It is an information bar and [5:28] occasionally has error dialogues in it. [5:32] So, if you see [5:35] Hopefully, you can read that. It says, [5:36] "Please select a destination." [5:39] And my mouse cursor [5:42] is this is changed to this arrow. [5:45] So, if I move over here [5:48] and click, [5:51] I now have a floppy drive icon on my [5:53] desktop. [5:56] But, I don't want it there, so I want to [5:57] move it. Uh [5:59] there is [6:00] no click and drag. I can't click and [6:02] drag this. So, to move the icon, [6:05] I have to press on it, [6:08] push the move key on the keyboard, [6:13] which is here on the side, and then [6:14] again my cursor changes. [6:17] Please select a destination. [6:20] And then I can move the [6:22] floppy disk icon where I want it. [6:25] So, I'm going to close this window out, [6:28] open my floppy drive, [6:35] and here is the list of files that are [6:38] on that disk. [6:40] Someone will probably tell me that I'm [6:42] doing this wrong, but as far as I can [6:43] tell, you can't edit documents that are [6:46] on a floppy disk. You have to copy them [6:48] off to the desktop first. So, [6:51] uh [6:52] I'll do the same thing again. Click on [6:53] the file, copy, select destination, [6:58] point. [7:01] The system is now copying the [7:04] file off of the diskette. [7:08] And there it is. [7:10] So, I will close my floppy. [7:14] Uh [7:15] the show properties key on the keyboard [7:16] is one that you'll use a lot. So, I'm [7:18] going to push that, [7:20] and that will bring up [7:22] the properties window. [7:24] And in this case, this is how we would [7:28] rename this document. [7:31] If I wanted to call it uh [7:33] demo document [7:37] Y, [7:38] I could do so. [7:40] And then hit apply, and you'll see the [7:42] name [7:44] change. [7:45] Well, no, it didn't because it cut off. [7:47] It's too long. But, anyway, let's open [7:49] this up [7:53] to [7:54] You can [7:55] have overlapping windows in viewpoint, [7:58] and you can drag them around. So, I'm [8:00] going to drag this just up here to the [8:03] corner. Notice in the information bar [8:05] I've got the helpful button up on [8:08] destination. [8:09] So, if I release that, my window will [8:11] move. [8:12] If I right click, I can resize the [8:15] window to make it a different size, [8:18] and that's all well and good. [8:21] Inside of this document, this [8:24] black rectangle is a graphics frame. [8:28] Graphics have to go in a graphics frame. [8:30] You can't just put them into a document. [8:34] And you might say, "Great. How do I put [8:36] the graphics frame in the document?" [8:39] It used to be [8:42] that [8:43] you could go to the office supply store, [8:45] and they had these like carbon transfer [8:47] sheets with like shapes and stuff, and [8:50] you'd rub on it on on your paper, and it [8:52] would transfer that onto the other [8:55] paper. And they used that paradigm [8:58] on the star, [9:00] where in this basic transfer sheet I've [9:02] got all these various shapes. [9:05] So, if I want to add a box into this, [9:10] I can grab this box shape. [9:14] I can choose copy on the keyboard. [9:19] Oops. Oh, I didn't open this document [9:22] for editing. Let me do that. [9:24] When you open a document, first of all, [9:26] it's in read-only mode. So, [9:28] copy, [9:29] paste. [9:32] Uh I don't like where that is, so I'm [9:34] going to press move. [9:36] I can move it around. [9:39] Now I want to resize it. [9:42] So the function keys that are on the top [9:44] of the keyboard are also [9:47] uh labeled [9:49] on the screen now as soft keys. [9:52] So I want to stretch this this [9:57] direction. [9:59] And then [10:01] click there, stretch, go down a little [10:04] bit. [10:06] Move it. Okay, good. [10:08] So there's a little box. If I want to [10:11] change the [10:13] line style or fill, I can do that. [10:16] Properties key, this property sheet now [10:19] has [10:21] things related to [10:23] uh that box, so I can do that. [10:27] Click done. [10:29] And if I wanted to add some text inside [10:31] the box, [10:34] I [10:35] I You have to click on the corner of a [10:37] window to activate it. [10:39] Which is kind of interesting. I can copy [10:41] this text frame. [10:43] Paste that in. [10:49] Oops, I'm not typing. [10:55] Click on this. Move. [10:58] Get my destination. [11:03] There we go. [11:04] So now we have the [11:06] fox going over the lazy dog. [11:12] Let's say I wanted to take this [11:15] and move it to the bottom of the [11:17] document. I select it. [11:20] I push move key. [11:22] And I click where I want it. [11:25] And it actually did it. Sometimes it [11:27] doesn't actually [11:30] repaint this screen when you do that, [11:32] which that took me about an hour and a [11:34] half [11:36] to figure out why it wasn't working. [11:39] Because it was working. Yeah, so [11:41] I moved it, but it doesn't show it. [11:44] Unfortunately, the system is slow enough [11:45] they can't always update in real time, [11:47] so you have to go to one of these little [11:50] menus at the top [11:52] and choose to redisplay. [11:57] A repaginating, as they call it. [12:02] If I release that, [12:04] it will [12:06] go blank for a moment while it figures [12:07] out what it wants to do. [12:10] And we've moved our graphic. [12:14] So, now I'd like to show you a similar [12:17] operation on the Lisa. [12:22] Let me wake her up. [12:25] I've got a document on this disk. [12:31] If I put it in, the system will [12:33] automatically mount the disk [12:36] and resume the uh the document that I [12:39] had open at the time. [12:41] I'm not going to worry about that right [12:42] now, though. I'll just set that aside. [12:47] So, here's [12:50] another little sample document. [12:54] So, if I want to insert a graphic [12:58] here, I need to copy paste it in. [13:01] So, I need to create it in the drawing [13:03] package. [13:05] Um [13:08] In both of these systems, there is no [13:10] file new. [13:12] You take a blank empty document template [13:16] and make a copy of it. Uh [13:18] on the Xerox, you have to click on it, [13:20] use the copy key on the keyboard. [13:23] On the Lisa, you can click on it [13:26] and say tear off stationery or just [13:30] double click. [13:31] It's it's a very different interaction [13:32] where and the Xerox it's almost like [13:34] right hand left hand is each one is [13:36] doing [13:37] a um [13:38] different parts of the operation. And on [13:41] the Lisa [13:43] everything is done simply with the mouse [13:45] and the keyboard [13:48] has no function keys on it. [13:50] Um well, I I guess it's got it's got um [13:53] a command key. [13:55] But there are no [13:57] there are no predefined [14:00] uh [14:01] function keys on the Lisa keyboard. [14:04] So, we tore off a copy of our [14:07] Lisa Draw document. [14:10] I had started to prepare this earlier. [14:16] And [14:18] inside of Lisa Draw, we get kind of a [14:20] familiar palette of tools. So, we can [14:22] draw a [14:25] box. Again, not touching the keyboard to [14:28] move it around. [14:32] Fill maybe. Let's make it look like [14:35] that. [14:37] And then [14:38] we can add some text. [14:46] Click and [14:48] move it there. [14:50] That's good. [14:52] I can select all. [14:54] I can group all of these things together [14:57] as one object. [15:00] I can take my object, copy it, [15:06] switch back to the other document I was [15:10] working on with the desk menu. [15:17] Edit. [15:19] Paste. [15:23] And you see that it also redrew the [15:25] whole the whole document right away. I [15:27] didn't need to [15:29] issue any any specific command. [15:33] Um [15:35] I've also created a few other little [15:37] business graphics type things in this [15:39] with the uh [15:41] Lisa software. You can see [15:44] all these all these vector-based images [15:47] will redraw as you scroll. This [15:49] Scrolling [15:50] complicated pictures is definitely not [15:52] fast on Lisa. [15:54] But uh there's a a a pie chart [15:56] uh generating application which actually [16:01] Oops. [16:05] Uh [16:05] to create that I used the [16:09] pie chart application and then pasted it [16:12] into the drawing program to like to pull [16:15] this [16:16] particular wedge out. Um [16:20] And then this was done in the [16:23] in the spreadsheet. [16:25] And that was the all [16:28] all that was easily copy-pasted into a [16:30] document. [16:32] So [16:34] in the lead-up to this event, I had [16:38] a number of uh people who were [16:41] new to the Lisa. They'd never used one [16:43] before. [16:44] And I was I asked them to sit down at [16:47] the machine [16:48] and create a document with text and an [16:51] illustration and gave very little other [16:54] instruction. And [16:56] everyone was able to do it including our [16:58] roommate who I think was six beers in at [17:00] the time and it took him about 10 [17:02] minutes. Um [17:04] So [17:06] the refinements that Apple did [17:11] building upon concepts started with the [17:14] Star [17:15] really makes this software I think, a a [17:19] big iteration compared to this earlier [17:22] system. [17:24] Want to move to Q&A? [17:29] See here. [17:29] Sure, we can uh [17:30] Yeah, I've got the Discord up here. [17:32] got we got some uh questions coming in. [17:34] Oh, cool. So, uh [17:37] So, first of all, we have a question, [17:38] what is the resolution uh of the Xerox? [17:41] It looks surprisingly high resolution. [17:43] The Xerox is 10 um [17:48] It is 1024 [17:52] by [17:56] 1024 by 809. [17:58] And [17:59] it's the screen is set up such that [18:02] there's the kind of [18:05] the viewable area of the screen. [18:08] And then beyond that, there is a border [18:10] texture which can be defined so that the [18:13] screen is borderless. The whole the [18:14] whole screen is is illuminated, but [18:16] there's only a [18:17] tiny section that is actually able to [18:19] display data. [18:22] Okay. Um we have another question. Um [18:24] what year again was the Xerox Star from, [18:27] and what year was the uh Lisa from? So, [18:30] how long from that to that? [18:32] The [18:34] the Xerox Star [18:37] is built upon [18:39] concepts and done by the same team that [18:41] did the Xerox Alto of 1972. [18:45] The Star shipped in 1981. [18:49] Um [18:49] I'm I'm sure development started at some [18:51] point uh prior to that. I don't know [18:53] exactly when. [18:55] Development on the Lisa started in 1979. [19:00] And it was originally going to be a [19:03] text-based interface. [19:05] But when Apple [19:08] was invited to view um [19:11] uh the Smalltalk system at Xerox and see [19:15] the concept of, of windows and the mouse [19:19] pointer. [19:21] Lisa was changed to a graphical [19:24] interface [19:25] and then, um, [19:27] actually, but I think it was like 6 [19:29] months before the Lisa shipped, the [19:30] interface, the filer interface was [19:32] changed to this one that we're now [19:34] familiar with that is not is still kind [19:37] of common today. So. [19:39] Okay. Um, there's a question about [19:41] networking. [19:43] Um, basically, I guess the Xerox has [19:45] Ethernet. Yes. Um, what kind of [19:47] networking was available for the Apple? [19:50] Uh, did it have, you know, for the Lisa, [19:52] did it have Ethernet? Uh, what did it [19:54] have and and [19:55] So, the That's actually important thing. [19:57] The Star was the first computer to have [19:59] 10 megabit Ethernet. [20:01] Um, you with on the back there's a, an [20:04] AUI port. So, you can, you know, you [20:07] could plug this standard, um, [20:11] transceiver into the back of this system [20:13] and cable it into a modern twisted pair [20:15] Ethernet switch. [20:17] Um, [20:19] you know, it's, uh, [20:20] it's called, uh, AUI module, I believe. [20:24] Um, [20:25] there were very there were various types [20:27] of this depending on the, the physical [20:29] cabling that you would use. [20:30] Um, [20:32] the Lisa [20:33] internally to Apple had an Ethernet-like [20:36] network and network cards, [20:39] uh, that [20:41] never shipped. Um, they were I think [20:43] that I believe they were very close. [20:44] They had, um, the hardware was done and [20:47] they used it internally at Apple and at [20:50] the factory where they produced the [20:51] systems. [20:53] The hardware project was scrapped. The [20:56] software side of that became, uh, [20:59] AppleTalk [21:01] and then was implemented over the serial [21:02] port of the Lisa and sub- and [21:05] Macintoshes. [21:06] Yeah, okay. The second part of that [21:08] question was uh, can either of them be [21:10] used as a file server for other systems? [21:12] Yes, the so [21:17] running the Lisa Office System [21:20] No, this [21:22] as it shipped, the Lisa is is a [21:25] standalone system. It has a terminal [21:27] application. You can do text, you know, [21:30] copy paste text and whatnot. [21:32] But there is no like file server or [21:34] networking. That was planned but never [21:37] actually released. [21:39] Um [21:43] I [21:45] don't believe that in this configuration [21:50] the the the Xerox would be a file [21:53] server. It would be a client. [21:56] The same hardware running different [21:58] software, connected and maybe connected [22:00] to additional disks, could be used as a [22:03] file server. But if you're running [22:05] viewpoint [22:06] um [22:08] I don't believe that this will act as a [22:12] file server, although someone might [22:13] correct me. I'm I'm not 100% sure on [22:15] that. [22:17] So, uh someone just had a comment. They [22:19] said uh can't help the feeling if you [22:21] had an e-paper computer screen, it [22:23] wouldn't look too dissimilar, about the [22:25] same speed about the slow updates [22:27] instead of slow uh screen refresh. [22:30] Yeah, the um [22:33] the Lisa is a 5 MHz 68000. [22:36] The Star [22:38] does not have a microprocessor. [22:41] Um [22:41] it [22:43] because it [22:44] because Xerox was so far ahead of [22:47] everyone else with what they were trying [22:49] to do [22:51] powerful microprocessors hadn't been [22:52] invented yet. And so this has [22:56] four [22:58] four-bit AMD processors in it [23:01] running microcode to stitch them [23:03] together into a 16-bit processor. [23:07] And [23:09] amongst that and all other things, this [23:12] has about the processing power of a Mac [23:15] Plus. [23:16] Um [23:18] the uh [23:20] Yeah, it's a it's about a Mac Plus, [23:22] which is more than more processing power [23:25] than a Lisa. [23:25] Now, how much memory uh did it have in [23:28] M's? How much memory did the Lisa have? [23:30] What's the CPU of the Lisa? [23:32] So, the the the Star has uh 768K [23:37] of of RAM. This particular one I think [23:39] you could order it in 1981. In 1981, I [23:42] think you could order it with with less. [23:44] This particular one is fully optioned. [23:47] Um the Lisa in 1983 [23:50] with the 5 MHz 68000 shipped with 1 MB [23:54] of RAM. [23:55] Uh which again, think some of the other [23:58] presentations we had people showing [24:00] Commodore 64s from this time period, [24:02] which had 64 KB of RAM. [24:06] The [24:07] Both of these systems were hugely [24:09] expensive and the RAM was a significant [24:13] portion of that. Uh in 1983, [24:17] the RAM alone in a Lisa cost Apple about [24:20] $5,000, just the parts. [24:24] So, another question is more I guess [24:26] personal to you. How long did it take [24:28] for you to get proficiency in using the [24:30] GUI on each of them? [24:31] So, the Lisa [24:34] if [24:35] uh I'll quote the comment of my husband, [24:39] the if you've used a classic Mac OS, [24:43] uh you know, system 7 8 9, the Lisa is [24:46] very familiar. The real really the only [24:49] uh difference is that it's [24:51] document-centric, so you're tearing off [24:53] copies of stationery instead of opening [24:55] an application and choosing file menu. [24:58] Um [25:00] the Star [25:02] uh [25:04] took me a little while. Uh fortunately, [25:08] our friends at the Living Computer [25:09] Museum developed an excellent Star [25:13] emulator, and I was able to spend um [25:16] a fair bit of time with that using using [25:19] the interface and also watching some of [25:21] the demos that uh the Star team has [25:24] given that are available on YouTube. I [25:26] am [25:27] So, I am by no means an expert on the [25:29] Star interface. Uh [25:32] today. Uh [25:34] I know enough to to to work my way [25:36] around. Um [25:40] It's been It's been quite a few hours to [25:41] get to this point. Uh like even [25:45] move It took me about an hour and a half [25:47] to figure out how to move the text or [25:50] the graphic screen from here to here. [25:54] Okay, well, we have a lot of questions [25:55] coming in. Um first question is did the [25:58] Star have peer-to-peer networking? [26:04] I honestly can't answer that. I [26:08] I [26:09] think it [26:10] I might have to backtrack what I said [26:12] earlier. I'm I'm thinking back to the [26:13] demo that Xerox gave at the uh computer [26:17] human interface conference in 1998. [26:21] I [26:25] I don't know. I know that they had um [26:28] Xerox had extensive networking [26:31] uh set up, file servers, print servers. [26:34] It was very easy to send a It like you [26:38] could take your to So, to to print a [26:40] file on the on the Xerox, [26:43] um [26:45] you would take your document, you'd [26:47] choose copy, and then the destination is [26:49] you click on the printer icon. [26:52] Um, unfortunately, so Xerox [26:55] Xerox uh likes to carefully control [26:59] their assets [27:01] and hopefully have monthly recurring [27:03] costs on them. And the star is no [27:05] exception. [27:06] Everything on the star is licensed with [27:09] specific license keys, [27:11] and I don't know if we're missing the [27:13] software or I haven't been entering the [27:15] license key properly. So, uh [27:19] like if I select this text, [27:24] so you left left click at the beginning [27:26] of where you want to select, and then [27:28] right click at the end. I'm going to [27:30] choose properties, [27:32] and this is the um [27:35] the property sheet for that text. [27:39] Um, let's say I wanted to make that text [27:42] bold, right? That's pretty easy. I would [27:44] click on bold here, and uh Corey, if you [27:47] could pull in on this line [27:50] when I click apply, you'll see what [27:53] happens. [28:02] Uh if I click apply, [28:05] oops. [28:07] We're not licensed for bold. [28:10] So, [28:12] uh there is a lot more functionality in [28:14] this system that this particular [28:16] instance doesn't have right now. [28:21] Okay, well, we've got a few more [28:22] questions. Let me just pull out here. [28:24] Sure. [28:25] So, um let me read these off. So, we've [28:27] got uh what kind of uh hard drive is in [28:30] the Xerox? Capacity? Is the whole OS on [28:34] a disk or how is the Where's the OS [28:36] stored? And I guess uh one more question [28:38] to that. Um I guess I'm going to combine [28:41] two questions. [28:42] Mhm. [28:42] Um [28:43] are we running a flash drive or a real [28:45] hard drive? And do know who supplied it? [28:48] Yeah. [28:48] So [28:49] So yeah, those are those are very [28:50] related questions. Um [28:52] this the system had an SA1000 [28:56] interface 8-in hard drive in it. I [28:59] believe you could order a order a 10 [29:03] meg, [29:04] a 60 meg, or an 83 megabyte drive. Um [29:08] this system had [29:12] I want to say it was a 63 meg drive in [29:14] it when we got it. It might have been [29:15] the 83. Um [29:19] it does not have that currently. [29:21] Uh we are using one of David Guessline's [29:23] MFM emulator emulator boards, uh which [29:26] is based on the BeagleBone computer. Um [29:30] which has a solid state storage on it. [29:32] So we are we are using an emulated uh [29:35] hard disk on this system. And I also [29:37] need to mention that David has been [29:40] extremely important in getting this [29:42] system going. We would not I would not [29:44] be able to get this demo without the [29:45] work that he did. So [29:47] um [29:49] And I guess for clarity's sake, the Lisa [29:53] this Lisa is also running a more modern [29:55] hard disk. It's not solid state, but it [29:57] is it is uh noticeably faster than uh [30:01] the Apple 10 megabyte. [30:03] And quieter. [30:03] And and quite a bit quieter. Yes, you [30:04] can hear me clearly. [30:06] If we actually had the Lisa with the [30:09] original drive, um the noise that would [30:11] be created by that drive, you probably [30:14] wouldn't uh wouldn't hear anything in [30:16] the room. It's rather loud. Uh and it's [30:19] interesting that that was intended for [30:20] an office environment. [30:21] Yeah. [30:21] Um someone did have a question about the [30:24] hardware on the Star. Did it have uh [30:27] blitter circuitry, do you know? Uh or is [30:30] or did it not do that in hardware to do [30:32] the software? [30:33] Blitter. [30:33] Blitter circuitry. I am not familiar [30:35] with what that is. [30:37] Um [30:39] I do so this the the all of this Does it [30:42] have glitter circuitry? The [30:48] Loadable Yeah, it's everything on the [30:50] Star is in microcode. So, [30:53] one of the first things that there's a [30:54] minimal boot ROM [30:56] and then the actual [31:01] I don't know exactly where the [31:02] delineation is and I don't want to [31:03] misspeak, but uh [31:06] all of the code that make or all the [31:08] things that make this work are [31:09] microcode. It's not so much hardware and [31:13] TTL logic like the Lisa. Um [31:17] I don't know if that code comes from [31:19] disk or from [31:22] ROM more on the [31:26] on the on the Star 10. [31:28] On the Lisa, it would have been in ROM [31:29] cuz they had a toolbox. [31:31] Yes. [31:31] Yeah. Well, it Some of it's in ROM. Some [31:34] of it is also loaded from disk. Like, if [31:36] you boot a Lisa into MacWorks, it loads [31:38] the Macintosh ROMs into RAM memory and [31:42] then executes it. So, [31:44] essentially. [31:46] So, I have a couple of questions that [31:47] have came in. Number one, do we have any [31:49] hardware upgrade plans for the system? [31:52] Someone said his system, but this system [31:54] actually is the system from the VCF [31:56] Museum. So, you can come in during [31:59] obviously [32:01] more normal times. [32:02] With with this with the COVID [32:03] restrictions of how many people can be [32:05] in the museum and you know, come in and [32:08] actually [32:09] work on this system if you wanted to. [32:12] Um so, you can I believe and correct me [32:15] if I'm wrong, we have the only one of [32:17] these that is currently on public [32:19] display that works. [32:21] I believe that is correct and that the [32:23] public can touch. Obviously, [32:25] we'll give you some assistance. We'll [32:27] turn it on and everything. [32:28] Yes. [32:28] Um [32:30] so, I can tell you I don't think we have [32:31] any upgrade plans as from what I [32:33] understand. [32:34] I don't I don't really [32:35] Other than a mouse pad? [32:37] Yeah. [32:38] Yeah, the Oh, so um [32:41] the the I That's actually another [32:43] important distinction. I'm glad you [32:45] brought that up. So, [32:49] I wish I could insert some pictures I [32:51] took of this. The I I'll I'll pop them [32:53] in the Discord. The the Xerox mouse [32:57] uh [32:58] this particular one was made by um by [33:01] Alps Electric. [33:03] And [33:05] it is a beautiful piece of mechanical [33:09] engineering inside. It's machined [33:11] aluminum. [33:12] It has a a steel ball bearing. [33:16] And it's all it's all machined aluminum [33:19] clamped together. [33:21] Steel rollers supported on steel caged [33:24] ball bearings. Um it has these encoder [33:27] drums with the finest little wires that [33:30] that touch the drum to sense as it [33:33] rotates. [33:34] And it looks like it might have been [33:36] hand soldered. [33:37] Um [33:40] A very [33:41] an amazing bit of craftsmanship in this [33:44] mouse. You'll also notice [33:46] you can't like to to take this apart to [33:49] clean it, you have to completely [33:51] disassemble it. And I would do that, but [33:54] it is very fragile and I don't want to [33:56] risk damaging it. Uh VCF was [33:58] when we got this system, we didn't have [34:00] a mouse and we were fortunate that [34:01] someone donated one to us and we [34:04] we greatly appreciate that. [34:06] Uh these were quite expensive to make. [34:09] The Apple mouse [34:11] is made out of injection molded plastic. [34:15] Has a the the ring that you can rotate [34:18] to dump the ball out. Has rollers that [34:21] are plastic on metal shafts with no [34:24] bearing [34:25] that go into an injection molded plastic [34:27] frame and have um [34:30] LED opto-interrupters. Little the the uh [34:33] interrupter wheels. [34:35] Uh this cost Apple I think about $40 to [34:37] make. I [34:39] I could be misremembering, but [34:41] the um oops [34:43] uh [34:46] This was something that was cheap enough [34:48] to put on everyone's desk. [34:50] This is [34:53] an amazing bit of machining and [34:55] craftsmanship [34:56] that is very delicate, sensitive to [34:58] dirt, and difficult to clean. [35:01] So, [35:02] um [35:04] Yeah, I [35:05] uh forget exactly how I got on that [35:07] tangent, but uh oh hardware upgrades. I [35:09] don't think there really are any more [35:11] any hardware upgrades to do to this [35:14] system. I think it's about at its [35:15] maximum configuration now. Um [35:18] There was a later version of this system [35:21] called the Daybreak, which [35:23] was this it was this it's essentially [35:25] the same computer shrunken down into [35:28] fewer chips [35:29] uh [35:31] in a smaller cabinet, but [35:33] with some other various peripheral [35:35] upgrades it's got some additional [35:36] processing for peripherals, [35:37] but it at its core it's still the same [35:40] microcoded CPU interpreting the Mesa [35:45] object-oriented programming language, [35:47] which is what this is written in. Which [35:48] is that's the language that Xerox [35:50] developed. [35:51] The Lisa software is I think a mix of [35:54] Pascal and 68000 assembly. [35:57] Mostly Pascal. That was a big change I [35:59] think with [35:59] That's the with the Mac. [36:01] That's how it was faster. [36:02] Right. [36:02] Um was because the Macintosh was RAM [36:05] restricted, [36:07] um [36:08] the Macintosh they wrote everything in [36:09] machine code as best as they could [36:11] Yeah. [36:12] um to be a lot smaller. [36:14] They could [36:15] The Lisa had [36:16] level language and the amount of RAM [36:18] they could do a lot of work in Pascal, [36:20] Mhm. [36:20] um which wasn't as efficient from a a [36:23] code perspective, but it was a way more [36:25] efficient for the developers themselves. [36:26] Very very flexible. [36:28] Um okay, so we are we have a question [36:31] about [36:33] um I guess this is more Someone was [36:34] wondering in 2020 Science Advance is [36:37] optimizing compilers, it would be [36:39] possible to do the same thing as it does [36:40] right now with faster redraws and [36:42] operations in general. [36:44] Um I would say the emulator, right? [36:46] Uh [36:48] so, I mean yes. [36:50] The [36:52] the issue is that with with both of [36:55] these systems that the the software is [36:59] still pretty close to the metal, right? [37:04] And [37:05] for example, this machine the Lisa has a [37:09] an 8 MHz rated chip in it. The 68000 [37:13] rated 8 MHz, but it only runs at five [37:16] for various reasons during development, [37:18] but you can't [37:20] easily speed that up in the Lisa Office [37:23] system because that 5 MHz clock is also [37:26] what drives the video and the floppy [37:28] access. So, all these things are [37:29] interrelated. So, you can't you can't [37:32] speed up one part of it and not have it [37:35] uh have issues. The same way on the [37:38] Xerox um [37:41] the [37:42] uh like the the this the graphics on [37:46] this is bit banged out by the processor. [37:49] Uh and so [37:51] the microcoded processor has like a list [37:53] of [37:54] um [37:56] Hopefully you have watched the Apollo [37:58] Guidance Computer videos uh from Curious [38:01] Mark on YouTube and seen how the Apollo [38:03] Guidance Computer had a number of tasks [38:05] that it would run and spend so much time [38:07] on each task. [38:09] The Xerox does that, too, and one of [38:11] those tasks is draw a scan line on the [38:14] CRT. [38:16] So, you can't speed up the processor [38:19] without it throwing everything else off. [38:22] And in fact, the Dark Star emulator [38:25] has an option where if you have a very [38:26] fast computer, a limit clock speed [38:28] option because if it runs too fast, the [38:30] system will crash. [38:34] Wonderful. So, I guess you tried that. [38:37] Um [38:37] I have not, but that's what the the the [38:39] very helpful help file said that. [38:42] So, I guess one final question we have, [38:44] as will be our last question, is someone [38:46] really wants to know because Xerox was [38:48] kind of a big company. [38:49] Yes. [38:50] Um what division or what part of Xerox, [38:53] because you know, there's software and [38:54] hardware and there's the interface, what [38:57] division actually produced this and sold [38:59] it and who was the real intended [39:01] audience or the real intended you know, [39:03] purchaser of the product? [39:05] So, [39:06] the the Xerox [39:09] all the as far as I know, and I am [39:14] uh as Corvus tell you, I'm more of an [39:16] more of an expert on the Lisa system and [39:18] I know some things about the Xerox. So, [39:20] as I recall, all of this was done at the [39:23] Palo Alto Research Center by the [39:28] I think the team had a name, it might [39:30] have been Advanced Products team. I I I [39:32] could be misremembering that. [39:34] Um [39:36] the intended audience for this, actually [39:39] the intended audience for both of these [39:40] systems is the same. [39:42] It was the knowledge worker, the person [39:45] who is not a typist, who is not [39:51] clerical, but is someone who is dealing [39:54] with ideas and preparing [39:57] presentations and charts [40:00] and [40:02] solving business process issues. [40:06] Um so, both both of these systems were [40:07] targeted at that knowledge worker um [40:11] worker uh [40:13] segment. And Xerox actually, uh if you [40:16] search on YouTube, has a really [40:18] excellent presentation about about the [40:22] star [40:23] and how they targeted at knowledge [40:26] workers. [40:28] Well, thank you. This has been really, [40:30] really great and very informative. And [40:32] then we're getting things for people [40:33] like this is the first thing that I've [40:34] actually ever seen one of these working. [40:36] So, I think that that's amazing that, [40:38] you know, you're able to share it and [40:40] and really just show the the difference [40:42] cuz I really I'm I'm with you. People [40:44] ask me all the time, you know, did Apple [40:46] steal from Xerox? [40:47] Yeah. [40:47] And you know, they [40:48] And everyone's oh, yeah, yeah, Apple [40:50] stole from Xerox, blah, blah, blah. I [40:51] mean, that it's in movies and whatnot [40:53] and yes, there are elements and [40:56] paradigms that are implemented in the [40:58] Lisa that are present on the Xerox, but [41:02] to [41:03] um [41:04] I did a a demo uh [41:07] earlier for my YouTube channel and Andy [41:09] then asked me, "Hey, can you can you do [41:10] this?" where I compared the Lisa office [41:13] system to [41:15] uh DRI's GEM. [41:17] And in that instance, DRI GEM kind of [41:21] copied some of the look and feel of the [41:24] Apple [41:25] system, but without the depth of [41:29] functionality that was behind that look [41:32] and feel. [41:33] In this case, we have some similar [41:35] paradigms, some similar graphic stuff, [41:38] but the depth of functionality behind it [41:41] is different on the two systems. So, I [41:44] guess that that's my point is that [41:47] inspired by yes, copied exactly. [41:50] This is not a Xerox of this. [41:52] Thank you very much. It's not a Xerox of [41:54] that. Um [41:55] so, thank you. [41:57] And uh you know, we're going to move on [41:59] to our next, which uh [42:01] which is really something I always love [42:03] love watching, Ian Primus repairing [42:05] CRTs. So, he's going to talk uh CRT [42:08] repair. So, thank you very much and [42:11] we're done.