Tether Withholds Debt Counterparties, Pledges Audit Within Months

Tether拒绝披露商业票据交易对手，承诺数月内完成审计 Tether高管坚称，持续的交易量和无瑕疵的赎回记录证明了市场信任，从而为其稳定币逾半数储备交易对手保密进行辩护，而相关审计仍需数月时间。 在一次罕见的主流媒体亮相中，Tether高管Paolo Ardoino和Stuart Hoegner就CNBC记者Deirdre Bosa提出的尖锐质询，对该稳定币的储备结构进行了辩护。Bosa对Tether将其逾50%的储备支持用于未披露的商业票据、而实体现金占比不足3%提出质疑，并就交易对手风险以及缺乏完整的财务审计施压要求提高透明度。高管们辩称，Tether达到620亿美元的市值、在重大市场崩盘期间保持挂钩稳定以及全额兑付赎回的历史记录证明了市场信心，同时承诺一项独立的多年度追溯审计正在进行中，预计将在数月内完成。 Tether高管为其储备支持辩护，指出虽然美元现金占比不足3%，超过50%为商业票据，但绝大部分债务获得了标普和惠誉等评级机构A-2或以上的评级。 (5:00) 总法律顾问Stuart Hoegner透露，Tether正在接受一项多年度追溯财务审计，预计将在“数月而非数年内”完成。 (24:43) 尽管Tether跻身全球前十大商业票据持有者之列，但高管以银行保密协议和商业机密为由，拒绝透露具体发行人或地域分布。 (15:42) Tether的市值从2019年2月的大约20亿美元激增超过3,000%，到2021年7月突破620亿美元，日交易量在450亿美元至500亿美元之间。 (0:00)

Tether executives Paolo Ardoino and Stuart Hoegner defend the stablecoin issuer's reserve backing and market dominance, arguing that widespread trading volume and resilience across market downturns demonstrate user trust despite persistent regulatory questions about reserve composition. Market Adoption Versus Regulatory Scrutiny (0:00) Host Deirdre Bosa challenged Tether's claim of being pegged 1:1 with the U.S. dollar, pointing out that hard cash accounts for under 3% of reserves while commercial paper makes up more than 50%. In response, General Counsel Stuart Hoegner maintained that the market has validated Tether through organic adoption, emphasizing that supply surged over 3,000% from $2 billion in February 2019 to north of $62 billion in July 2021, backed by $45 billion to $50 billion in daily trading volume. Bosa pushed back against equating high transaction volume with institutional trust, citing regulatory warnings from Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren, and SEC Chair Gary Gensler. Tether executives countered that market participants demonstrate confidence by holding the $1.00 peg during extreme stress, such as Bitcoin's March 2020 collapse and a recent 30% multi-day decline, without Tether ever denying a customer redemption. Counterparty Secrecy and Commercial Paper Reserves (5:00) Tether's commercial paper holdings—estimated to place the company among the top ten holders globally—faced skepticism after CNBC sources on major commercial paper trading desks reported having no dealings with the firm. Hoegner clarified that Tether does not purchase paper directly under its own name; instead, it executes orders through accounts at partner banks and intermediaries, specifically confirming Deltec Bank & Trust in the Bahamas as a primary banking partner. Both executives declined to reveal the specific corporate issuers of the commercial paper or confirm exposure to Chinese firms, citing banking confidentiality and commercial discretion. Hoegner asserted that the portfolio is international, managed conservatively, and overwhelmingly carries investment-grade ratings of A-2 or higher from agencies like S&P and Fitch. Minting Deceleration and Stablecoin Competition (10:00) Addressing reports that Tether's token minting ground to a near-halt in June 2021 while competitor USD Coin expanded from $23 billion to $27 billion, CTO Paolo Ardoino attributed the slowdown to broad market cooling after Bitcoin dropped from its $65,000 peak. He argued that smaller rivals find it mathematically easier to display higher percentage growth from lower baseline caps than a $63 billion incumbent. When questioned about Circle releasing more detailed disclosures showing higher cash allocations, Hoegner framed Circle's move as following Tether's lead. He maintained that Tether's cash reserves alone exceed its single largest redemption and its largest 24-hour redemption run by multiple times, showing that users continue to favor Tether's liquidity and utility. Assurance Attestations and the Audit Pathway (12:35) Challenged on using quarterly attestations from Moore Cayman rather than a complete audit from a major American accounting firm, Hoegner defended Moore Cayman's digital asset expertise and its connection to the global Moore network of 30,000 personnel. Dismissing an earlier, abandoned relationship with Friedman LLP as outdated, he argued that no stablecoin issuer had completed a full financial audit due to the historical lack of crypto familiarity among major auditing firms. Hoegner stated that Tether is currently undergoing a comprehensive, multi-year lookback audit, expecting its completion in "months, not years." Addressing the past New York Attorney General settlement, Hoegner characterized the findings as historical disclosure mistakes regarding 1:1 dollar backing that were resolved within months, adding that Tether no longer operates in New York. While Tether executives maintain that their operational survival, unrefused redemptions, and dominant market scale prove the safety of their reserves, critical questions remain unresolved regarding the specific issuers, geography, and liquidity profiles of their massive commercial paper holdings.

在接受CNBC采访时，Tether首席技术官Paolo Ardoino与总法律顾问Stuart Hoegner坚称其稳定币完全受储备金支持且经受住了市场赎回考验，但面对储备中逾50%商业票据的具体构成及发行方身份的质询，高管以保护商业伙伴隐私为由拒绝披露。 商业票据透明度缺失与柜台交易疑云 (5:00) Tether此前公布的储备金明细显示，其实物美元现金占比不足3%，而超过50%的资产为商业票据。CNBC主持人Deirdre Bosa提出，美国财政部长Janet Yellen及波士顿联储主席Eric Rosengren均对稳定币储备资产发出预警，且华尔街主要商业票据交易柜台均表示从未与Tether直接交割。当被问及是否持有风险特征迥异的中国企业商业票据时，Hoegner与Ardoino均拒绝回答具体发行方名单，仅表示这些票据属于“国际化”资产，绝大多数获得标普（S&P）和惠誉（Fitch）等评级机构的A-2或以上评级。 针对交易市场的质疑，Hoegner解释称Tether并不以自身名义在公开市场直接交易商业票据，而是通过在多家银行开立账户，由合作银行向经纪商及二级市场交易对手询价并执行订单。尽管Hoegner确认巴哈马的Deltec Bank & Trust为其核心合作银行之一，但他坚持严格遵守商业保密原则，拒绝公开完整的经纪商与合作银行名单。 市场规模与赎回记录能否直接等同于信任 (0:00) 面对透明度不足的指责，Tether管理层主要将市场规模作为获得信任的证据。Hoegner指出，Tether的发行规模自2019年2月的约20亿美元飙升至2021年7月的620亿美元以上，增幅超过3000%，全球交易所日交易量稳定在450亿至500亿美元之间。他强调，Tether历史上从未拒绝过任何合规客户的赎回申请，且当前持有的现金储备足以覆盖数倍于公司历史上单笔最高及24小时内最大的赎回峰值。 Bosa反驳称流行度并不等同于可信度，并提及纽约州总检察长办公室（NYAG）曾查明Tether在过去并未实现全天候100%全额储备支持。Hoegner对此回应称，NYAG认定的仅是早期披露中的表述问题，Tether在约三个月内便已修正，且目前已完全停止在纽约州的业务运营。Ardoino补充指出，无论是在2020年3月加密市场暴跌、比特币价格数天内腰斩，还是近期比特币下跌30%的极端行情中，USDT均牢固维持了1美元的锚定汇率。 第三方季度鉴证与全面财务审计的延宕 (12:35) 关于外界持续呼吁的独立财务审计，Hoegner辩称现阶段的季度第三方独立鉴证与审计均属于专业鉴证服务范畴。针对为何选择开曼群岛的Moore Cayman而非美国主流会计师事务所的质疑，Hoegner反驳了地域偏见，指出Moore Cayman在数字资产领域具备深厚专业能力，且属于拥有逾3万名员工的Moore Global国际会计网络。对于此前与纽约Friedman LLP终止合作的历史，Hoegner称其为多年前的旧事，不影响当前鉴证的有效性。 Hoegner进一步披露，Tether目前正在接受一项涵盖过去数年的追溯性财务审计。尽管主流审计机构此前对加密货币业务持谨慎学习态度导致全行业审计服务稀缺，但Tether希望成为稳定币行业首家完成全面财务审计的公司。Hoegner预计该审计报告将在“数月内而非数年内”完成，但未给出具体承诺截止日期。 代币铸造停滞、竞品扩张与高管缺席争议 (10:00) 自2021年6月初以来，Tether的新币铸造速度几近停滞，而同期竞争对手Circle发行的USDC规模则从230亿美元稳步上升至270亿美元，并公布了现金及现金等价物占比较高的储备报告。Ardoino将Tether发行放缓归因于比特币从6.5万美元历史高点回调引发的宏观加密市场降温；针对USDC的逆势增长，他解释称较小基数的资产更容易实现较高的百分比增幅，而市场整体增速实际均在放缓。 针对Tether首席执行官J.L. van der Velde与首席财务官Giancarlo Devasini长期回避媒体露面的现象，Ardoino解释两位高管属于专注日常运营与客户服务的务实型管理者，不追求聚光灯关注。他认为由首席技术官负责技术阐述、总法律顾问负责合规监管沟通，是符合金融科技企业运作逻辑的合理分工。 本次专访揭示了Tether管理层与外部监管视角之间的根本分歧：Tether将庞大的交易量、持续的锚定稳定性和历史赎回履约记录视作市场信任的终极证据，而媒体与监管机构则聚焦于其50%以上商业票据的具体风险敞口、离岸鉴证局限性以及迟迟未落地的独立审计。在美联储及SEC持续加大稳定币系统性风险审查的背景下，Tether在合规透明度方面的未解疑问仍将是市场关注的核心焦点。

## Background 该视频由 CNBC 官方频道（CNBC Television）于 2021 年 7 月 21 日在 YouTube 平台发布。节目中，CNBC TechCheck 记者 Deirdre Bosa 独家专访了 Tether 的首席技术官 Paolo Ardoino 与总法律顾问 Stuart Hoegner，共同探讨 Tether 在加密货币领域的核心角色以及稳定币市场的监管与发展未来。 ## TL;DR 专访围绕 Tether 储备金真实性与透明度展开激烈交锋。CNBC 记者针对 Tether 储备中美元现金不足 3% 且半数以上为商业票据、拒绝透露具体发行机构与国别细节、发行量陷入停滞以及 CEO 长期避世等疑点发起尖锐质询。Tether 高管反驳了无储备支撑的指控，坚称所有代币均为全额背书且公司从未拒绝过任何客户的赎回申请，并将 620 亿美元的发行规模视作市场对其流动性的信任投票。此外，法务总管承诺公司正在全力推进全面财务审计，并透露报告将在数月内而非数年后出具。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场访谈充斥着高压交锋与审讯式的张力，主持人 Deirdre Bosa 步步紧逼、毫不妥协，接连用香烟与快餐的类比、华尔街交易圈无人听闻的调研结果来戳破高管的话术。面对持续施压，Tether 两位高管表现出高度谨慎与严密的合规防御姿态，在商业机密防线与赢回公众信任之间艰难拉扯。观看过程宛如一场紧绷的法庭质询，冷静克制的行业辩白与媒体直击痛点的犀利追问构成了鲜明对照。 ## Bulletin - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=0s) Tether 发行规模自 2019 年 2 月的刚逾 20 亿美元飙升至超 620 亿美元，增幅逾 3,000%，全网 24 小时交易量维持在 450 亿至 500 亿美元区间。 - [05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=300s) 针对储备金构成争议，Tether 披露其美元现金占比不足 3%，超过 50% 资产配置于商业票据，并坚决拒绝透露其交易对手名单或国别明细（包括是否持有中国票据）。 - [24:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1490s) Tether 总法律顾问 Stuart Hoegner 表示，全面财务审计报告正在全力推进中，预计将在“数月而非数年（Months, not years）”内对外正式发布。 - [05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=300s) 针对 6 月初新增发行放缓现象，高管解释称主要系比特币自 6.5 万美元高位回落引发的宏观加密市场需求冷却，并非资金出现信任危机。 ## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=0s) Tether 高管主张代币系区块链上的美元基础设施，发行的 USDT 与储备资产保持 1:1 完全对应且随时可赎回，历史上未曾拒绝过任何客户的资金赎回申请。 - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=0s) Tether 将 620 亿美元流通盘与压倒性的日交易量视为市场投下的信任票，反驳外界对“高交易量不等于高信用”的质疑。 - [05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=300s) 官方确认其持有的商业票据绝大部分获得标普（S&P）和惠誉（Fitch）等权威机构 A2 及以上评级，但出于商业审慎与保密义务坚拒透露具体发行方和国别。 - [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=600s) 对于竞品 USDC 规模在 Tether 停滞期间逆势增长，CTO Paolo Ardoino 解释称体量基数差异显著，且整个主要稳定币行业都在随加密行情冷却而放缓扩张。 - [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=600s) Tether 强调其现金储备远超历史上遭遇过的单日或单笔最大赎回额，并在比特币腰斩等极端行情抗压测试中成功维持了 1 美元锚定。 - [13:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=780s) 针对未出具正式财务审计（Audit）的质疑，Tether 解释称目前全行业均采用会计师季度鉴证（Attestations），公司已聘请开曼群岛的 Moore Cayman 提供定期资产鉴证。 - [16:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=960s) 华尔街交易圈未直接捕获 Tether 的交易踪迹，系因其采购商业票据采用“合作银行（如巴哈马 Deltec Bank）- 投资银行 - 一二级市场经纪商”的间接委托模式。 - [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1200s) Tether 表态将全面遵守全球监管要求，认为适度监管能保护稳定币发行方与消费者，并不会重蹈 Diem 陷入阻碍的覆辙。 - [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1200s) 法币赎回操作需用户在官网完成完整 KYC/AML 身份验证并存入 USDT，随后由官方通过银行电汇（Wire Transfer）打款出金；2017 年官网故障时曾无缝切换由 Bitfinex 承接兑现。 - [22:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1335s) 对于此前纽约州总检察长办公室（NYAG）的调查争议，法务主管澄清公司早已修正信息披露口径并达成和解，目前不在纽约州开展任何业务。 - [24:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1490s) 针对 CEO JL 避开公众媒体的疑问，管理层解释称 CEO 与 CFO 专注于日常运营与大客户对接，由技术与法务负责人出面担任公开沟通代表是务实的团队分工。 - [24:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1490s) Tether 明确承诺追溯过去数年账目的深度独立财务审计正加速落地，正式报告面世的时间窗口在“数月而非数年”之内。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=0s) 接受主流媒体采访的初衷与“一比一锚定”的定义交锋 访谈伊始，CNBC 主持人 Deirdre Bosa 指出 Tether 高管极少甚至可能从未接受过主流财经媒体的专访，而当前稳定币特别是 Tether 正在面临前所未有的严格审视，因此她单刀直入询问两人此次公开亮相的真实意图。Tether 首席技术官（CTO）Paolo Ardoino 在解开静音后率先回应，表示本次参会最核心的目标是让公众真正理解 Tether 的角色。他阐述道，Tether 是一项伟大的金融创新，其使命是作为“区块链上的美元”，使整个加密经济以及未来的全数字化在线经济运行得更加高效、快捷。Paolo 强调，Tether 与美元保持一比一挂钩且随时可兑换，在数字商业与各大加密交易所的出入金（进出头寸）中扮演着不可或缺的流动性枢纽。 随后，Deirdre Bosa 转向总法律顾问 Stuart Hoegner，追问他们是否希望借此消除外界的误解并重塑信任。Deirdre 随即抓住 Paolo 刚才的表述发起质疑，指出 Paolo 声称 Tether 与美元一比一挂钩，但外界已知其储备金并不全都是美元，因此这在事实上“并非完全如此”。Stuart 当即坚决反驳了主持人的定性，强调发行的代币与储备资产之间确实是一比一完全对应的。他坦承储备金并非纯粹由美元现金构成，但明确指出其资产组合是“全额储备且有背书的（fully reserved and backed）”，并且公司通过独立会计师事务所提供季度鉴证报告予以证实，今年已发布两份，第三份正在筹备中。Stuart 语气强硬地强调公司的兑付信用记录，表示：“最重要的是，我们从未拒绝过任何一位客户的赎回请求，一次都没有（Most importantly we have never refused a redemption to a customer, not one time）。” 面对主持人关于“是否希望通过 CNBC 赢回公众信任”的追问，Stuart 表示市场早已用真金白银投出了信任票。他摆出具体数据作为论据：自 2019 年 2 月以来，Tether 发行规模已从略高于 20 亿美元一路狂飙至超过 620 亿美元，增长率突破 3,000%；此外，Tether 在各交易所的 24 小时交易量近期维持在 450 亿至 500 亿美元之间，将所有竞争对手远远甩在身后。Stuart 坚称，这种压倒性的流动性和规模，正是市场对 Tether 产品投下信任与信心票的明证。 - 增长规模：Tether 发行量自 2019 年 2 月的刚逾 20 亿美元增至逾 620 亿美元，增幅超 3,000%。 - 交易体量：全网各大交易所 24 小时交易量维持在 450 亿至 500 亿美元区间。 - 兑付记录：历史上未曾拒绝过任何一次客户的资金赎回申请。 - 鉴证进展：由独立会计师执行季度资产鉴证，年内已发布两份，第三份正在推进中。 ### [05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=300s) 商业票据透明度争议与发行停滞的市场解释 Deirdre Bosa 迅速反驳了“高交易量等于信任”的逻辑，她搬出 Tether 此前官方披露的储备金饼状图展开质询：数据显示其实际美元现金储备不足 3%，而超过 50% 都是商业票据（Commercial Paper）。尽管 Tether 曾宣称其评级多在 A2 或以上，但 Deirdre 追问这些商业票据背后的具体标的究竟是什么。Paolo 对此设定了防线，明确表示公司绝不会披露具体的商业伙伴名单，因为必须恪守商业审慎并尊重合作银行及机构的隐私。Paolo 补充道，在金融市场上，缺乏信任的资产会被不计代价地抛售，而 Tether 至今在各大主流交易所完美维持了 1 美元的锚定价格，这足以证明广大社区对 Tether 的坚决信任。 Deirdre 随即提及监管高层的强力施压——美国财长珍妮特·耶伦（Janet Yellen）公开警示稳定币系统性风险，波士顿联储主席埃里克·罗森格伦（Eric Rosengren）更直接点名 Tether 带来的金融危险。她追问 Tether 的商业票据是否包含中国企业发行的票据（由于市场对中国商业票据与加拿大商业票据的风险认知截然不同）。Stuart 接过话茬，确认其持仓属于“国际商业票据”，且绝大部分持有标普（S&P）和惠誉（Fitch）等权威机构 A2 及以上的评级。面对追问，Stuart 坚持拒绝透露国别与具体发行方细节：“正如 Paolo 所提到的，我们以极大的审慎来保护我们交易对手的关系（As Paolo mentioned, we guard our counterparties relationships with great discretion）。”他强调 Tether 作为行业先驱，不仅在积极配合全球执法机构与监管部门，而且在透明度层面已经提供了充分信息。 访谈最后探讨了市场扩展动能放缓的现象。Deirdre 指出，有观察显示 Tether 的新币发行在 6 月初几乎陷入停滞，要求 Paolo 解释背后的原因。Paolo 回应称，这主要是宏观加密市场情绪冷却的自然结果——比特币等主流币种从 6.5 万美元的历史高点大幅回撤，导致大量投资者持币观望，需求随之收缩，整个稳定币板块的扩张速度都普遍放缓。但 Deirdre 立即援引链上数据反驳，指出竞争对手 USD Coin (USDC) 在同一时期内发行量从 230 亿美元稳步爬升至 270 亿美元，与 Tether 的停滞形成鲜明对比；Paolo 则回应称，评估这种趋势应拉长时间跨度至过去数月的前期高基数对比，两者的放缓本质上都是由整体市场周期所决定的。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Tether 资产储备质疑与回应逻辑 accDescr: 展示 CNBC 主持人针对 Tether 储备透明度提出的质疑以及 Tether 两位高管各自的抗辩与回应逻辑。 subgraph Host["CNBC 质疑焦点"] Q1["储备构成比例：\n现金不足 3%，商业票据超 50%"] Q2["信用穿透问题：\n是否持有中国企业发行的商业票据？"] Q3["市场走势分化：\n6 月初发行停滞，而 USDC 仍持续扩张"] end subgraph Tether["Tether 高管抗辩与回应"] A1["Stuart Hoegner:\n标普/惠誉等机构 A2 或以上评级；全额储备，从未拒绝赎回"] A2["Paolo Ardoino / Stuart:\n恪守保密原则与商业审慎，拒公开交易对手与国别细节"] A3["Paolo Ardoino:\n比特币自 6.5 万美元高位回落引发观望，整体行业需求放缓"] end Q1 --> A1 Q2 --> A2 Q3 --> A3 ``` - 储备结构特征：官方饼图显示美元现金占比低于 3%，商业票据占比高于 50%。 - 评级构成：官方声称涵盖的国际商业票据绝大部分获得标普（S&P）、惠誉（Fitch）等机构 A2 或以上评级。 - 监管点名：美国财政部长珍妮特·耶伦和波士顿联储主席埃里克·罗森格伦等高级官员均曾对稳定币及 Tether 的风险发出警告。 - 竞品数据对比：在 Tether 增速放缓的同期，竞品 USDC 的流通规模从约 230 亿美元攀升到了 270 亿美元。 ### [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=600s) 稳定币增速放缓与对 Circle 披露的交锋 关于稳定币供应量增速放缓的原因，主持人和 Tether 团队之间出现了一段激烈的讨论。主持本质疑，Paolo 前面提到是整体需求下降导致发行量减少，转头又称体量较小的稳定币更容易实现高百分比增长，这听起来前后矛盾。Paolo 澄清解释称这并不矛盾：如果一个稳定币只有 10 美元，翻倍到 20 美元非常容易；但要从 630 亿美元增长到 700 亿美元，体量基数完全不同。他强调，当前整个主要稳定币市场的整体增速都已大幅放缓，Tether 的总发行量固然进入了横盘停滞阶段，但其他竞品同样在减速，这归根结底是由当前整体加密货币市场的需求变化引起的。 随后，主持人引入了与竞争对手 Circle（USDC 发行方）的对比。Circle 刚刚公布了其资产储备细节，许多业内人士认为 Circle 的披露远比 Tether 更加透明详尽。Tether 总法律顾问 Stuart Hoegner 对此回应道，他们很高兴看到 Circle 追随 Tether 的步伐，并试图达到 Tether 率先建立的市场透明度与披露水平。针对主持人关于 Circle 拥有更高比例的现金及现金等价物、是否会分流 Tether 用户的质疑，Stuart 态度坚决地表示毫无担忧： > “我们维护的现金储备，比我们迄今为止遭遇过的单笔最大赎回额要高出数倍，同时也远高于我们单日 24 小时内的最大赎回总量；因此，无论是对我们整体的投资组合，还是具体的现金分配比例，我们都感到非常安心。”（Stuart Hoegner） Stuart 还进一步列举了历史极端行情作为抗压测试的例证：在 2020 年 3 月比特币价格几天内遭遇腰斩，以及采访前几周比特币单周暴跌 30% 时，Tether 的 1 美元锚定始终稳固，所有赎回均全额履约，各交易所价格平稳。市场数据也证明，无论是从市值规模还是 24 小时交易量来看，Tether 依然是市场上最受欢迎的稳定币。 --- ### [13:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=780s) 储备金审计与鉴证报告的争议：开曼摩尔与弗里德曼 主持人随后切入核心的信任争议：为什么 Tether 只能提供季度独立会计师鉴证报告（attestations），而不是正式的财务审计（audit）？Stuart 解释道，鉴证与审计同属于独立会计师提供的鉴证服务，目前整个稳定币行业中还没有任何一家公司完成过全面的财务审计。整个加密生态中针对此类资产的审计服务仍处于早期探索阶段，Tether 正在积极推进正规审计，并希望成为“加密行业中第一家完成正式审计的机构”。 在会计师事务所的选择上，主持人指出 Tether 目前使用的是位于开曼群岛的 Moore Cayman，质疑为何不采用具有更高公信力的美国本土知名事务所。Stuart 反驳称信任并不局限于特定的国家和地域，Moore Cayman 在该领域经验极深，且隶属于全球排名前十、拥有超 3 万名员工的 Moore Global 会计网络。主持人随即追问其过往历史：Tether 几年前曾聘请过总部位于纽约的 Friedman LLP，但最终分道扬镳，Tether 当时曾声明称“鉴于 Friedman 针对 Tether 相对简单的资产负债表采取了极其冗长的繁琐程序，在合理时间内完成审计已变得不可能”。 > “正如你所指出的，我们过去确实与 Friedman LLP 保持过合作关系，事实上 Friedman 很久之前还为我们出具过一份咨询报告。但那已经是相当陈旧的信息了，这几年里发生了很多变化。”（Stuart Hoegner） Stuart 强调，Tether 对当前与 Moore Cayman 的合作非常满意，市场已经通过鉴证报告获得了做出投资决策所需的透明度和信息。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Tether 储备金鉴证流程与审计推进 accDescr: 展示 Tether 历史上与会计事务所的合作变更以及当前的储备鉴证机制 subgraph Past["历史合作"] A["Friedman LLP（纽约）"] -->|"因流程冗长无法在合理时间内完成审计"| B["合作终止（出具过早期咨询报告）"] end subgraph Present["当前模式"] C["独立第三方会计事务所<br/>Moore Cayman"] -->|"定期资产核查"| D["季度鉴证报告<br/>(Quarterly Assurance Attestation)"] D -->|"向市场证明"| E["Tether 储备金全额支撑且具流动性"] end subgraph Future["长期目标"] F["推进全面财务审计<br/>(Financial Audit)"] E -.->|"逐步过渡"| F end ``` --- ### [16:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=960s) 商业票据运作方式与做市中介 面对主持人提问“到底是谁觉得当前的透明度已经足够了，因为外界记者和分析师普遍在呼吁更多公开”，Stuart 明确表示，这一反馈来自其核心客户群——即比特币和加密市场中最主要的专业交易员和机构参与者，这些人或许在网络上声音没有批评者那么大，但资金和交易量做出了真实的选择。 期间，CTO Paolo Ardoino 因技术故障暂时掉线，采访由 Stuart 继续作答。主持人转述了 CNBC 同事 Jim Cramer 的调查：Cramer 询问了大量商业票据（CP）行业的核心头部人士，然而作为号称全球前十大商业票据持有者之一的 Tether，整个华尔街商业票据圈竟无人知晓其交易踪迹。对此，Stuart 详细拆解了 Tether 采购商业票据的后端运作机制： - **采购渠道与银行中介**：Tether 并非直接派人去华尔街交易台敲门买票据，而是在多家银行和正规金融机构开设账户。 - **两层委托采购**：Tether 账户所在的银行会向其合作的投资银行询价商业票据，后者再进一步向经纪商及一级发行市场或二级市场的交易对手方发出需求。 - **评级标准**：Stuart 再次明确指出，Tether 持有的商业票据绝大多数评级均在 A-2 或以上。 对于主持人追问具体的金融中介与交易行名单，Stuart 表达了审慎态度。他证实巴哈马的 Deltec Bank & Trust 是 Tether 的主要合作银行之一，此外还有若干家其他银行伙伴。出于对交易对手方信息的敏感性和商业保密要求，Tether 选择保持低调谨慎，但会持续以稳健、高流动性的方式管理投资组合。在节目的尾声，主持人将话题引向了监管风暴，援引美 SEC 主席 Gary Gensler 当天早晨关于锚定证券的代币必须遵守证券法的重要表态，探讨 Tether 未来如何面对更严格的合规挑战。 ### [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1200s) 储备披露态度、监管博弈与法定货币赎回全流程 Deirdre Bosa 首先向 Tether 总法律顾问 Stuart Hoegner 提问：如果未来监管机构强制要求 Tether 披露更多储备金细节，尤其是其持有的商业票据（Commercial Paper）具体构成，公司是否已经准备好完全公开。Stuart 斩钉截铁地表示 Tether 绝对会遵守所有法律义务，并宣称公司不仅是在跟随规则，更在协助全球执法部门与监管者共同制定规则。当被追问更严厉的监管是否会削弱 Tether 的实用性（如同 Meta 旗下的 Libra/Diem 因过度质询而陷入泥潭）时，Stuart 反驳了这种二元对立的观点：“I don't see it as quite that binary, Deirdre. I think that the right kind of regulation helps everyone in the sector, stablecoin issuers and redeemers, consumers, traders, everyone in the space.” 他强调，适度的监管平衡将不可避免且有益于整个行业。 随后首席技术官 Paolo Ardoino 重新连线加入，Deirdre 转向技术与运营实务，询问普通客户如何将 USDT 赎回为法币美元。Paolo 详细拆解了赎回的标准操作路径： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Tether 法币赎回流程 accDescr: 展示用户在 Tether 官方平台将 USDT 赎回为法币美元的端到端操作步骤 subgraph 账户设立与认证 A["访问 tether.to 注册账户"] --> B["完成严格的 KYC 与反洗钱 (AML) 审查"] B --> C["账户审核通过"] end subgraph 赎回与电汇 C --> D["将 USDT 代币存入官方分配的充值地址"] D --> E["发起赎回请求并提交接收银行账户信息"] E --> F["Tether 执行法币电汇出金"] end ``` - **合规前置条件**：用户必须在官网 `tether.to` 完成完整的 KYC（了解你的客户）与 AML（反洗钱）身份验证。 - **资金划转与交付**：审核通过后，用户把 USDT 发送至指定充值地址，并在赎回页面输入个人银行账户及银行机构信息，随后系统通过银行电汇（Wire Transfer）完成法币打款。 ### [22:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1335s) 驳斥纽约州总检察长指控、历史兑付记录与 Bitfinex 渠道 针对 Stuart 声称“Tether 从未拒绝过任何客户的赎回申请”，Deirdre 拿出早前收到的官方声明进行质询。声明曾写道纽约州总检察长办公室（NYAG）未发现任何 Tether 储备不足或恶意操纵市场的负面证据，但 Deirdre 直言 NYAG 确实指控过 Tether 存在未获全额储备支持的时段。对此，Stuart 作出法律层面的辩解，称 NYAG 的实际结论是公司在“1:1 美元储备背书”的信息披露上犯了错误，而 Tether 在三个多月内便迅速修正了披露口径。 Stuart 进一步列举商业规模证明市场信任已经盖过当年的争议：“Within slightly more than three months, those disclosures were amended. And since then, as I noted earlier, Tether has grown from about $2 billion in market cap and issued Tethers to over 62 billion now with the velocity and the volume, excuse me, the 24 hour volume that we're seeing across exchanges.” 他强调 Tether 已经彻底告别并达成了与 NYAG 的和解，目前不在纽约州开展任何业务。针对 2017 年 Tether 官网瘫痪时用户能否兑现的问题，Paolo 澄清当时所有的赎回通道均无缝切换到了关联交易所 Bitfinex：Bitfinex 平台内部严格维持 USDT 与美元 1:1 的兑付比例，用户充入 USDT 即可获得等额美元入账并直接发起电汇提取。 - **市场规模跃升**：自 NYAG 披露争议修正以来，Tether 的市值与发行量从约 20 亿美元暴增至超过 620 亿美元。 - **业务属地限制**：Tether 严格履行协议，不在纽约地区开展任何运营与业务。 - **2017 年应急兑付机制**：官网不可用期间，交易者通过 Bitfinex 账户充值 USDT，换取等额实际美元并通过银行电汇出金。 ### [24:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1490s) 神秘的管理高层、公众沟通分工与全面审计时间表 Deirdre 抛出了外界与节目制作团队长期以来的核心疑虑：Tether 的首席执行官（CEO）JL（Jean-Louis van der Velde）极度避世，为何从不公开接受媒体采访？Paolo 与 Stuart 对此为管理层作了辩护。Paolo 介绍，CEO JL 与首席财务官（CFO）Giancarlo Devasini 是极其勤奋务实的幕后企业家，亲自抓日常运营，甚至深度参与解决基础的客户支持疑问。Paolo 与 Stuart 指出，作为底层技术公司与金融科技实体，由主管产品架构的 CTO（Paolo）和拥有丰富合规经验的总法律顾问（Stuart）担任面对公众的发言代表是最理想的分工。Stuart 坦言这纯属个人管理风格：“They don't need the limelight. It is really just a matter of style, Deirdre.” 他强调客户拥有直通最高层的沟通渠道，CEO 也曾接受过《金融时报》（Financial Times）的交流。 Deirdre 随即提出尖锐质疑：仅凭巨大的交易量是否真能代表信誉？就像垃圾食品或香烟同样销量巨大且流行，但并不意味着它们值得信任。接着她追问了市场翘首以盼的独立第三方全面财务审计（Financial Audit）进程。Stuart 透露，这项追溯过去数年账目的深度审计正在全速推进中。当 Deirdre 追问确切的时间窗口是“几年”还是“几个月”时，Stuart 斩钉截铁地回应道：“Months, not years.” 确认只需数月即可对外发布，Deirdre 亦笑称期待届时能邀请到神龙见首不见尾的 CEO JL 亲自做客节目。 - **管理团队分工**：CEO JL 与 CFO Giancarlo 主导后台运营与大客户对接；CTO Paolo Ardoino 与总法律顾问 Stuart Hoegner 全面负责对外公共事务与监管合规。 - **审计追溯范围**：当前进行的全面财务审计向前追溯涵盖了数年的历史财务数据。 - **审计发布周期**：明确表态距离正式出具报告仅剩“数月（Months, not years）”，而非遥遥无期的数年。 ### [28:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1680s) 行业开拓者地位与商业票据隐忧的最后交锋 在节目的总结陈词阶段，Paolo 重申了 Tether 在加密货币领域的基石地位。他指出 Tether 创立于 2014 年，不仅开辟了整个稳定币行业，目前更跨出加密原生圈层，深入渗透至普通在线电子商务领域。尽管 USDC 等新兴稳定币不断崛起，Paolo 表示 Tether 乐见生态的多元化发展，因为多方参与能让整个行业在面对监管时拥有更大的话语权。过去六个月内，Tether 完成了与 NYAG 的和解、拿下了第三方合规鉴证（Attestation），并率先公布了细分储备资产明细，Paolo 坚信这证明了 Tether 一直在引领透明化标准。 然而 Deirdre 对此并不完全买账，她在最后关头再次发起质询，对 Tether 始终不愿拆解其商业票据的具体构成（例如是否包含中国商业票据及具体的国际发行机构）表达了公开失望。面对 Deirdre 提出的“先发优势与 620 亿规模不代表能永远保住王座”的警告，Stuart 坚持了公司的防御立场，认为外界应当认可 Tether 在透明度上迈出的历史性步伐。 | 核心辩论议题 | 记者 Deirdre Bosa 的质疑观点 | Tether 官方（Stuart & Paolo）的回应立场 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **交易规模与信任关联** | 高交易量不能等同于高信任度（类比香烟与快餐的广泛流行并不代表健康可靠）。 | 客户与交易者用真金白银投票；从 20 亿做到 620 亿美元证明了市场的绝对信任与产品流动性。 | | **商业票据（CP）透明度** | 拒绝透露商业票据评级、国别（是否存在中国票据）和机构明细，违背加密圈透明原则。 | 属于行业内首家主动拆解公布储备大类的发行方，未来会寻找更多合规方式逐步加大披露力度。 | | **高管公开问责性** | CEO 长期隐匿避开媒体公众，使外界难以评估实体控制人的决策与真实意图。 | 纯属个人务实风格，高管直接服务核心客户；CTO 和法务主管出面代表科技金融公司完全合理。 | Stuart 在结束前再次强调：“We're laser focused on our customers, we are laser focused on innovation, and Tether fundamentally is more popular because it's transparent, it's trusted, it's liquid, and it's useful.” 最终，Deirdre 对两人的到场受访表示感谢，并表示将持续追踪后续几个月内即将落地的独立财务审计报告。 ## Notable quotes > [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=600s) 我们维护的现金储备，比我们迄今为止遭遇过的单笔最大赎回额要高出数倍，同时也远高于我们单日 24 小时内的最大赎回总量；因此，无论是对我们整体的投资组合，还是具体的现金分配比例，我们都感到非常安心。 — Stuart Hoegner > [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ&t=1200s) I think that the right kind of regulation helps everyone in the sector, stablecoin issuers and redeemers, consumers, traders, everyone in the space. — Stuart Hoegner ## Mentioned CNBC, Deirdre Bosa, Tether, Paolo Ardoino, Stuart Hoegner, USDT, Circle, USD Coin, Janet Yellen, Eric Rosengren, Standard & Poor's, Fitch Ratings, Moore Cayman, Moore Global, Friedman LLP, Jim Cramer, Deltec Bank & Trust, Gary Gensler, SEC, Bitfinex, New York Attorney General, Jean-Louis van der Velde, Giancarlo Devasini, Financial Times, Meta, Diem ## Video description CNBC TechCheck’s Deirdre Bosa chats with Tether’s CTO Paolo Ardoino and General Counsel Stuart Hoegner about the company role in crypto and the future of stablecoins. » Subscribe to CNBC TV: https://cnb.cx/SubscribeCNBCtelevision » Subscribe to CNBC: https://cnb.cx/SubscribeCNBC » Subscribe to CNBC Classic: https://cnb.cx/SubscribeCNBCclassic Turn to CNBC TV for the latest stock market news and analysis. From market futures to live price updates CNBC is the leader in business news worldwide. Connect with CNBC News Online Get the latest news: http://www.cnbc.com/ Follow CNBC on LinkedIn: https://cnb.cx/LinkedInCNBC Follow CNBC News on Facebook: https://cnb.cx/LikeCNBC Follow CNBC News on Twitter: https://cnb.cx/FollowCNBC Follow CNBC News on Instagram: https://cnb.cx/InstagramCNBC #CNBC #CNBCTV CNBC TechCheck with Tether's CTO and general counsel — 7/21/21 [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBEqyiO35cQ)

[10:00] Stuart Hoegner: 我们维护的现金储备，比我们迄今为止遭遇过的单笔最大赎回额要高出数倍，同时也远高于我们单日 24 小时内的最大赎回总量；因此，无论是对我们整体的投资组合，还是具体的现金分配比例，我们都感到非常安心。 [20:00] Stuart Hoegner: I think that the right kind of regulation helps everyone in the sector, stablecoin issuers and redeemers, consumers, traders, everyone in the space.

[28:38] Stuart Hoegner: Tether fundamentally is more popular because it's transparent, it's trusted, it's liquid, and it's useful. [20:00] Stuart Hoegner: I think that the right kind of regulation helps everyone in the sector, stablecoin issuers and redeemers, consumers, traders, everyone in the space. [0:00] Stuart Hoegner: We think the market has spoken. We believe the market has voted with its feet. The market has shown its trust and confidence in tether and its products.

[0:00] Hello, good morning, good afternoon, everyone. Paulo and Stuart, welcome. You guys made it. Glad to have you here. Thanks for having us, Deirdre. So I have to start. You guys rarely do interviews with mainstream media. I'm not sure if you ever have. I couldn't find any. And there has just been so much scrutiny of stable coins and Tether in particular. What do you want to get out of this? Paulo? I think Paulo is muted. It happens. I bet. So I think one of the most important things to get out of this show is ensuring that the public understand the role of Tether Tether is a great innovation Its main role is to make the entire crypto economy but in general in the future possibly the entire digital online economy much faster, much more efficient than being basically dollar on a blockchain. Blockchain is a brilliant innovation that has been created with Bitcoin and is securing hundreds of billions of dollars. And Tether is a stable coin so that it basically is packed one to one with the dollar, is always redeemable with the dollar and is the perfect use case for digital commerce. And as you rightfully pointed out in your last episode, Deirdre, Tether is being widely used across crypto exchanges as a way to get in and out of positions. So it's important that people understand the role of Tether as an innovation in the crypto industry, but also outside as the future of the digital commerce. OK, thank you. I think that's a good explainer of Tether's use case in the crypto economy. But Stuart, I want to ask you as well, what do you want to get out of this? I know that you guys have talked in the past about trust Is that part of it Do you want people to understand your story better Trust what actually backing Tether As Paula just said something right away that it pegged one to one to the U dollar That not exactly the case though is it That's well, it is. It is the case, Deirdre. We are backed one to one to our reserves. And reserves are not the U.S. dollar. No, they're not completely U.S. dollars, but they are fully reserved and backed. and we provide quarterly assurance attestations from independent accountants proving that all issues, all tethers issued are fully reserved and backed. We've produced two of those so far this year with the third on the way. We hold a strong conservative and liquid portfolio to your point Deirdre about the composition of our reserves with an emphasis on safeguarding them. Most importantly we have never refused a redemption to a customer, not one time. That's very important for the public to understand I think so is this about trust as well Stuart then are you hoping that by coming on an outlet like CNBC you're hoping to clarify some of the information out there whether you think that's misinformation misperception but you guys are sort of ready to answer those questions and maybe talk a little bit more about those reserves do you hope to gain trust from your community out of this Well that a great question and we delighted to be here Deirdre so thanks again We believe that the community has already vested its trust and confidence in tether. Since February of 2019, we've grown from just over $2 billion worth of issued tethers to our our current market cap of in excess of $62 billion in issued tethers, a growth rate of more than 3,000%. And more importantly, our 24-hour volume across exchanges lately is $45 to $50 billion, which dwarfs the competition. So we think the market has spoken. We believe the market has voted with its feet. The market has shown its trust and confidence in tether and its products. But Paulo, volume, popularity does not necessarily equal trust. Yes, you guys have grown immensely. You're now the third most popular cryptocurrency in terms of market cap. So let's get into some of the details. Stuart just said that you guys are backed by reserves. You guys published a pie chart that showed less than 3% of that actually was US dollars. More than 50% of that is commercial paper. I know you guys have said [5:00] that it's rated A2 or above. Can you give us any more details about what exactly that commercial paper is? So we don't disclose our commercial partners, so that is quite important. We want to, given our portfolio composition in commercial papers, we believe that is quite important to respect the privacy of the banking partners that we work with. Thank you. when an asset is not trusted and Tether is trusted when an asset is not trusted, it get sold at any price and yet Tether holds perfectly. the one dollar price on all the crypto exchanges. So I believe that it's important to underline how the broader community trust us so i wouldn't rely on That's fair, but isn't that trust a little bit fragile? You have major people, regulators, such as Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen talking about the risks of stablecoin. You've got another Fed President, Rosengren, talking about the dangers of tether. So is this not an opportunity to come on? I'm not going to ask for names who exactly is in your reserves of commercial paper, but could you tell us a little bit more information, for example, Is any commercial paper held in Chinese companies? Thank you. Stu, you want to take this one? Yeah, absolutely. Girdro, our portfolio contains international commercial paper. As you noted from our public disclosures, it is overwhelmingly rated A2 or better. And we think that's the key thing here. And we think that transparency with the market and how the market has spoken and decided here is what's really important and what's important for your viewers to understand. Thank you. We believe we are pioneers in this industry, which is all very new. Regulations, rules, laws are being made by the day. We are leaders in transparency and in getting information to the community and to our stakeholders, demonstrating that our issue tokens, our issue tokens are fully backed and reserved. And we want to preserve that position. We are not just keeping up with rules, but we are helping to shape them and we're helping law enforcement and regulators globally. We're committed to being a positive force in this ecosystem. Two follow ups to that. When you say international commercial paper, are you willing to give us any more details? Chinese commercial papers thought of very differently as Canadian commercial paper. As Paolo mentioned, we guard our counterparties relationships with great discretion. We have a lot of sensitive information inside our companies as retail facing entrepreneurs. And we believe we've given sufficient transparency into that. And again, the market has spoken. We're the most popular stable coin with an excess of $62 billion worth of tethers issued not standing in the marketplace. And when you say that it's rated A2 or above, whose rating is that? S&P? That's S&P, Fitch, that's across multiple But we've rated that across multiple rating agencies. Okay, and I know that you guys, as you've mentioned, both of you have mentioned, you're the most popular stablecoin by volume. There are other ones though, and many people have noted how Tether issuance has really come to a standstill as of early June. Can you explain what's behind that? Sure. So actually, if you look at the charts, it's not just Tether that stopped growing as it was growing before. So sure, the second and third stablecoin by market cap grew just a little bit in the last month, but really nothing compared to the previous month. So that is just due to the changed market conditions and change demand and offer. So you can see the crypto markets went down significantly from the top 65K for Bitcoin, for example. So it's clear that investors are waiting on the sidelines and that reflects also on the issuances of stablecoins. So it's a broader is something that we have all in common. - Paulo, I am looking at the charts, and I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Let's take USD coin, for example. It has actually risen steadily in that timeframe from about $23 billion to $27 billion, so I have a hard time understanding that argument. Well, you can should compare it with how it grew in the past three months, right? You can see that [10:00] growth from 23 to 26 and a half is nothing compared to the group from three to 2023 in just a few months. So it's of course tether, there are many more tethers in circulation so there is less need of new tethers but if you are smaller it's easier to grow faster. I believe that is, you know, we are seeing a different answer than what you just said. you said that demand has actually led to less issuance, but now you're saying that if you're smaller, you can issue more, it's easier. So I'm hearing two different things there. I don't think it's correct. So if you have, you know, let's say you have $10 of a stablecoin, arriving to $20 is easier than going from $63 to $70, right? So I think that what I'm basically saying is that the growth of the general growth of among all the major stable coins has shrinked. So Tether definitely is flatlining, but the others are shrinking as lowering down as well. That is due to a different market demand that we are seeing this moment Well there also another difference between Tether and some of the other stable coins Let take Circle again as an example They came out with their own disclosure. I believe it was yesterday over the last few days. And many are looking at it and saying that it was a better disclosure than Tether's. And if we talk about volume and we talk about its relation or correlation to trust, what does that say? What did you make of Circles disclosures? Well, we're happy to see them follow in our footsteps and try to approach our level of transparency and disclosure that we've been putting out there into the marketplace. Again, we have quarterly assurance attestations that show from independent accountants that show that all of our tethers issued are fully backed. We have a strong, conservative and liquid portfolio. And, you know, this stress testing, Deirdre, from a security standpoint, is very important. We've seen major downturns in the crypto economy before. In March of 2020, the Bitcoin price was cut in half over a couple of days. A few weeks ago, the price of Bitcoin fell by 30% over just a few days. And during that time the tether peg remained solid All redemptions were honored and the price across exchanges remained stable So that is our offering We glad to see Circle following in our footsteps, but we stand on the strength of our disclosures and our transparency thus far, and we think the market is with us. And you're not worried that their higher percentage of cash and cash equivalents could draw users away from tethering towards them? Not at all. That has been that has been public for some time we maintain cash for example that is many multiples above our single uh biggest redemption thus far as well as above our 20 our biggest 24-hour period of redemptions so we're quite comfortable with our portfolio as a whole and with our allocation of cash specifically and we think the market again with that knowledge uh has decided that tether again is the most popular stable point when you look at 24-hour volume when you look at market cap. So you've talked a little bit about these attestations which kind of like an audit but it's not an audit. What's the holdup? Why can't you guys have a proper audit of Tether reserves So the attestations are part of assurance services offered by independent accountants Audits are another form of assurance services Deirdre For now we are providing those quarterly attestations those assurance attestations, showing that Tether is, in fact, fully backed and reserved. We are working towards getting financial audits, which, by the way, no one else in the stablecoin sector has done yet. We are seeing who will get there first, But we are in process. We are getting that done. Audit services have not been widely available inside the crypto economy as a whole. Everyone is still learning about this, but we are working towards getting those audits now. And in the meantime, we are providing the assurance attestations. Would you like to be the first in the crypto community to get that? We would love to be the first. We will see. We will see what happens. So for your attestation, you're using a Cayman Island accountant, Moore Cayman. And if you're aiming to build trust, though, and there are all of these questions swirling, why not use an American firm? We don't think that trust is necessarily vested in one country or another, Deirdre. Moore Cayman has a tremendous amount of experience in this sector, and they have been excellent by [15:00] partners for us. Furthermore, they are part of Moore Global, which is one of the 10 largest accounting networks in the world with more than 30,000 employees worldwide. So we think they offer a highly trusted and an authoritative view on the accounting field and on our test stations. At the same time, they weren't your first pick. You guys were working with a New York-based accountant, Friedman LLP. What happened there? Why did you move away from them? And your statement, you said that given the excruciatingly detailed procedures Friedman was undertaking for the relatively simple balance sheet of Tether, it became clear that an audit would be unattainable in a reasonable time frame. A lot has changed in a few years. That information is a few years old, Deidre. You're exactly right. You've hit it square in terms of the fact that we had a relationship with Friedman LLP. And in fact, Friedman offered a consulting report for us some time ago. But again, That's quite dated information. We're happy now with our relationship with more Cayman by extension more global and We are getting the tests and the market is getting the information and the Transparency that it needs to make good efficient decisions about what to hold So we happy to continue along that path Who are you hearing from when you say that the market is getting enough transparency, enough information? Because it feels like the people I talk to are asking for more. So where's the disconnect here? That's a good question. I think you might have to ask the people that you're talking to about that but what we're hearing is from our customers who are important traders and players in the Bitcoin and wider crypto spaces and more important again dear girl we are seeing that we think the facts show that we are the most popular stable point in terms of market cap and 24-hour volume so we're basing it on our feedback from our customers you can see these people online. They may not be as loud as some of our opponents, but that's what we're looking at and that's what we're seeing and that's who we're hearing from. Okay. And by the way, I just want to let the audience know that we just lost Paulo. He's had some technical difficulties, but Stuart, you and I can continue the conversation and he can join back in when he gets here. So we do talk to lots of people One of my colleagues Jim Cramer he knows lots of major players in the commercial paper industry And you know lots of other folks say that they ask whether they doing business with you guys especially because you want to now one of the top ten commercial paper holders in the world how is it though that none of the people we talked to a CNBC have heard of you guys well Deirdre I can't speak to how to what someone else knows or doesn't know or sees or isn't seeing. Well, how much understands that? Are you guys buying through an intermediary? Right. That's exactly right. We maintain accounts in a number of banks, financial institutions. They request quotes for commercial paper offerings from their banks who in turn request those from brokers and other counterparties, both direct from issuers and on secondary markets. So I can't speak to, I'd be speculating if I talk about how people see that or aren't seeing that in the CP markets. But that is how we are operating. That's how we're buying our commercial paper, which again is rated overwhelmingly A2 or better. Can you give us the names of the intermediaries that you're, again, all of this in the spirit of sort of just alleviating and I just the journalist here I just bringing the questions And I know we talked before and that Tether has been an extremely useful tool in terms of liquidity and velocity where others have not been but can you tell us sort of give us any of the names of the intermediaries that you are using so we can at least understand how it works a little better and you made that point very well in a previous segment a few weeks ago so thank you for that and we appreciate you recognizing the value that Tether brings to the ecosystem. One of our banks is Dell Tech Bank and Trust in the Bahamas. We have a number of other banking partners that we work with. As Paolo mentioned, we are very discreet and we're very sensitive to revealing information about our counterparties, but we are out there managing our portfolio in a conservative and a highly liquid and a strong way, and we will continue to do so. Okay, so right now a lot of lawmakers and regulators are talking about more regulation in this industry, specifically stablecoins. Gary Gensler, the SEC Chair, said this morning that crypto tokens priced off securities must adhere to securities laws even if on decentralized platforms. Are you guys prepared to... I know you said that you've sort of kept your cards close and there's a reason for [20:00] but if you're required to tell us more about your reserves, and particularly what kind of commercial paper you hold, are you guys prepared to do that? Absolutely, Deirdre. We comply with all of our legal obligations and absolutely will continue to do so. As I may have mentioned before, we are not just keeping up with the new rules, but we are helping to shape them, and we are actively helping law enforcement and regulators globally. We're committed to being a positive force in this industry. And our actions, I believe, speak to that. Does less regulation help you guys? And I know I talked about this on a previous segment as well, is that tether doesn't become as useful if you are more heavily regulated. We saw what happened with some of the other stable coins like Libra which became DM right it got caught up in and too many questions. So I wonder, does more regulation hurt you guys in the long term? I don't see it as quite that binary, Deirdre. I think that the right kind of regulation helps everyone in the sector, stablecoin issuers and redeemers, consumers, traders, everyone in the space. So it's a question of getting that regulatory balance right. And again, we're working with global see about getting the right mix for regulation, which is invariably coming to this sector. It's going to be more heavily regulated. Paula, I see you've rejoined us. Great to have you back. Let me ask this next question for you. Could you tell us what's the process for a customer getting paid in fiat when redeeming tethers? So the process is quite simple. So first of all, you have to, as a customer, you have to open an account at tether.co, that is the main website. Then once you have the account open, you have to go through a thorough KYC and ML process. and after that you get approved. At that point, if you have Tether tokens, you can send the Tether tokens to the deposit address that you have on your tether.to account and you can initiate a redemption. The redemption will just specify, will ask you to specify the bank account and banking, the bank where you want to receive the funds and a wire is going to be sent. - And Stuart, did you say that no one has ever had any issue redeeming? Tether for US dollars? That's exact. Well, we have never refused a redemption by a Tether customer. That's what I said. Okay. But also, I remember I got a statement from you guys not too long ago that said that, let me just pull it up here. that said, "The New York AG's office made no negative findings whatsoever that tethers were not fully backed, nor were ever issued without backing for the purpose of manipulating crypto markets." That's not true, though. They specifically did find that tethers were not fully backed. No, the New York Attorney General's Office found that we made mistakes in our disclosures about the one-to-one backing with dollars. Within slightly more than three months, those disclosures were amended. And since then, as I noted earlier, Tether has grown from about $2 billion in market cap and issued Tethers to over 62 billion now with the velocity and the volume, excuse me, the 24 hour volume that we're seeing across exchanges. So we think the market has decided that it trusts Tether. And we've moved on from the New York AG's matter. We were happy to put it behind us and happy to reach a settlement with that. And you're not doing any business in New York now, is that correct? That is correct. Okay, and then even when the website was not functional for 2017, People were able to redeem They're tethers for US dollars, is that correct? Paolo, do you want to jump in on that one or... Sure, so that's correct. So the way Tether in 2017 could be redeemed was through Bitfinex. Bitfinex was holding one-to-one relationship with dollars and tethers on the Bitfinex platform. So you as a as a trader, as a customer, as a crypto user, you could send your tether to Bitfinex, you were credited actual dollars, and you could request a wire out of Bitfinex. Okay, let's move on because I know we've gone longer than we intended to, but this is a great conversation. And again, I appreciate you guys being here. A lot of folks have wondered, myself included, my producers included, who said, often say, we need a CEO to do an interview. Your CEO has proved extremely elusive. Where is he and why doesn't he talk to media? So our CEO, [25:00] JL Jean-Louis and our CFO Giancarlo are two great businessmen. They are working as hard as they can. They are super hard workers. They are really deeply involved with our businesses and they handle day-to-day operations. And they also are extremely available to our customers. Carlo is extremely, extremely available to everyone in the industry to help with even basic simple customer support questions because this is what we are, right? So, and in the end, both Bitfinex and Tether are two fintech companies, right? So I'm the CTO, I build all these products with, of course, with the help of teams. And at the same time, you have Stu that is our general counsel, has a huge experience in, um, in the, in the, also on regulatory matters and is the person that really helps us navigate this new industry. you have the CTO and you have the general counsel. I believe that is the right choice for the public facing discussions. Okay. Well, I mean, you guys, you guys, we do appreciate you having you here. But again, Stuart, it just comes back to this question of trust, which is to me sort of why we're doing this in the first place. You guys have been forthcoming, which I do appreciate. I know you don't talk to media often. Is there a way to gauge trust that isn't just on volume? I mean, you could make the argument that something can be popular that isn't good for you, like fast food or cigarettes. It doesn't mean that you should necessarily trust it. out there, is that something that you can imagine doing in the future? - Sorry, is that for me or for Paolo? - Go ahead, Stuart. Well, look, as Paolo said, JL and Giancarlo work very hard as part of the team behind the scenes. They don't need the limelight. It is really just a matter of style, Theodra. They don't need the limelight, but what about the people that they're trying to serve? What if they want to hear from them? Well, they do hear from them. As Paolo mentioned, our customers have a line straight to the top. They interface and deal with JL and Giancarlo all the time, and they make a point of referencing that when they talk to the media. with that in when he talked to the Financial Times. So they're talking to the people that matter, not say you don't matter, we are happy to be here. And as the head of, as the, how is the CTO gives media interference all the time. We are a tech company fundamentally, and the chief technology officer is front and center. And we're both delighted to be here and talk to you. Okay, quick question just to follow up on the audit to go back a tiny little bit. I know that you said you would be thrilled to be the first sort of crypto company and stablecoin to go through an audit. Do you have a date in mind? We don't at this time, no. But we are reaching back a couple of years for the financial audit, and that is in process. - Okay, do you think that's years away, months away? Any clues? - Months, not years. - Only months away. Yes, we think so. Okay, great. Well, I hope you'll bring it to us and we'd love to see it. I'm sure you'll hear about it. I'm sure we will. Maybe, who knows, we'll even get JL, your CEO, on to talk to us about it at that time. I'll keep trying to convince you guys. As we wrap up, is there any last word? I know that I've been asking you sort of a lot of questions that are out there. Is there anything that you guys want to say before we wrap it up? Paula, maybe I'll go to you first. Sure. So I think that I want to start on back on the topic that I touched at the beginning. So Tether is considered by many the backbone of the crypto industry, is going even outside of the crypto industry as of now, is reaching online commerce. is the biggest one. It was the first. Let's do something that is really important for me, but also to everyone that works at Tether, is that Tether was formed in 2014, and actually created the entire space of stablecoins And, um... is driving the innovation since many, many years. Sure, there are new stablecoins that are great for diversification. We don't mind. We think that with more stablecoins, with more diversity, our voices will be heard louder because, again, this is a new industry. And, you know, although sometimes it might not seem like that, we are part of the same group, the same industry, and we should work together to be fairly regulated, to push forward innovation and so on. So, but, you know, Tether in the end is the biggest one, has proved extremely useful. Also, Never Failed to Perform Redemption is [30:00] an attestation look at what we did in the last six months right we settled with an eye we went we we were able to successfully get an attestation and also we went one step further with the breakdown reserves and now you are seeing the others that are following our steps so this is the beauty of this industry we are creating this industry on the go and I believe that Tether deserves that recognition. Okay, and Stuart, you know, part of the crypto community, a key part of that is transparency. And I have to say I'm a little disappointed we didn't get any answers to one of the biggest questions that are out there. And that is just the makeup of the commercial paper. I'll ask you one more time. Is there any more information, whether that be what kind of international commercial paper, is there any Chinese commercial paper? And, Are you willing to give us any of that? I guess that was sort of my biggest question, a lot of folks' biggest question coming to this. And how do you feel if we don't answer that in terms of trust going forward? As we talked about volume does not necessarily equal trust. And you do have competitors that are issuing more coins and perhaps See more volume than Tether, just because you guys have led the way and grown to a $62 billion market cap doesn't mean it'll always be that way, right? Well, that's true. Things may change as they move forward, but we have been leaders in transparency. We were the first to disclose anything about our reserves. So we're happy to see others following in our footsteps. and we will look for more ways to be transparent and more ways to push information out to our users, to our stakeholders, to the public, as we go forward. But as Paolo mentioned, I think Tether deserves a lot of credit for bringing this market forward, for pushing the market to be more transparent, for pushing the market to do innovative things. And that's the key to Tether's success. We're laser focused on our customers, we are laser focused on innovation, and Tether fundamentally is more popular because it's transparent, it's trusted, it's liquid, and it's useful. Well, I hope, guys, that this is just a first step. I know I still have lots of questions, but I also appreciate you being here. And I'm sure the crypto community will look over some of the things you guys said, and hopefully that will add to the picture. And again, thank you so much for being here. We hope to talk to you again soon. Please let us know when that audit happens. We'd love to report on it and continue to report on you guys. So thanks for being with us. Thanks very much, Deirdre. Thank you very much, Dira. And thanks to everyone for tuning in.