Joe Rogan Clashes With Primatologist Over Congo Bondo Ape Evidence

Comedians 'R' Go

Rogan argues that credentialed academics dismiss legitimate primate field discoveries without reviewing documented physical and genetic evidence.

AI-assisted summary of Joe Rogan vs Ape Expert Caller (w/ Bill Burr) — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2018-04-23

Key ideas

Joe Rogan details reports of the Bondo (Bili) ape in the Congo, characterizing them as upright-walking, 400-pound chimpanzees capable of killing lions and nesting on the ground. (0:00)
Rogan asserts the Congo underwent a rapid 2,000-year transition from grassland to dense rainforest that forced extreme evolutionary adaptations, a claim met with mockery from the studio hosts. (2:27)
Rogan attributes his deep dive into biology and anthropology to his relaxed, part-time schedule hosting Fear Factor, which allowed ample time to smoke cannabis and study science programming. (4:28)
A primatologist with a PhD earned in 2000 clashes heatedly with Rogan, dismissing evidence and mainstream coverage of the Bondo ape as fringe science. (5:39)

Detailed notes

## Background Published on YouTube by the channel Comedians 'R' Go on April 23, 2018, this radio clip originates from an Opie and Anthony broadcast. According to the show description, the video features Joe Rogan and Bill Burr engaging with a calling primatologist regarding the bonobo and Bili apes.

## TL;DR Joe Rogan presents theories about the discovery of the giant, upright-walking Bili ape in the Congo, attributing its unique predatory traits to rapid environmental evolution in the region. The studio hosts and comedian Bill Burr relentlessly tease Rogan, joking that his weed-fueled downtime as host of Fear Factor has warped his understanding of science documentaries. The segment reaches a boiling point when Allison, a caller with a PhD in primatology, calls the claims fringe science, triggering a furious debate where Rogan attacks her outdated credentials and refusal to consult recent field evidence. After Rogan rants about academic close-mindedness, the radio hosts quickly puncture the tension with absurd non sequiturs.

## Atmosphere & style The segment carries the rowdy, chaotic energy of classic shock-jock radio, characterized by rapid shifts between stoned pseudo-intellectual banter, sarcastic mockery, and raw confrontation. Joe Rogan speaks with intense, obsessive conviction, creating a sharp contrast against Bill Burr and the hosts, who constantly lob dry, sarcastic barbs from the peanut gallery. The emotional arc escalates into a genuine, white-hot shouting match with an academic caller before immediately collapsing into deadpan, juvenile radio absurdity.

## Bulletin - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) Joe Rogan details reports of the Bondo (Bili) ape in the Congo, characterizing them as upright-walking, 400-pound chimpanzees capable of killing lions and nesting on the ground. - [02:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=147s) Rogan asserts the Congo underwent a rapid 2,000-year transition from grassland to dense rainforest that forced extreme evolutionary adaptations, a claim met with mockery from the studio hosts. - [04:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=268s) Rogan attributes his deep dive into biology and anthropology to his relaxed, part-time schedule hosting Fear Factor, which allowed ample time to smoke cannabis and study science programming. - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) A primatologist with a PhD earned in 2000 clashes heatedly with Rogan, dismissing evidence and mainstream coverage of the Bondo ape as fringe science.

## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) Rogan describes the Bondo ape as a distinct Congo chimpanzee variant standing six feet tall, weighing up to 400 pounds, and building nests on the ground due to a lack of predators. - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) Rogan draws a parallel between human upstairs bedrooms and ancestral primate tree-nesting behavior meant to avoid predators. - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) Photographic camera traps by Swiss photographer Karl Ammann and a circa-1920 safari photo are cited as photographic backing for giant upright chimps. - [02:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=147s) Rogan claims the Congo basin transformed into a dense rainforest only about 2,000 years ago, trapping savannah fauna into rapid evolutionary changes. - [02:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=147s) As an example of accelerated adaptation, Rogan mentions duikers swimming 100 yards underwater to hunt fish. - [02:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=147s) Studio hosts mock Rogan's theories, joking that consuming pot lollipops caused him to blend separate documentaries into revisionist history. - [04:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=268s) Rogan explains that his light Fear Factor work schedule—working under eight hours a day three days a week—gives him vast free time to read and watch science shows. - [04:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=268s) Highlighting a 99% genetic overlap with chimps, Rogan argues that humans are fundamentally animalistic despite cultural conventions. - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) A caller named Allison introduces herself as a primatologist to dispute Rogan's claims regarding an unclassified hominoid chimp. - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) Rogan attacks the caller's credentials, arguing her 2000 PhD left her out of touch with modern field research and DNA mapping. - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) The caller labels reports by National Geographic and CNN as fringe science, arguing researchers are pursuing fictitious chimps for fame. - [08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=505s) Rogan condemns educated professionals who express rigid certainty and dismiss claims without conducting any preliminary research. - [08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=505s) The hosts abruptly diffuse the tension of the primate argument with deadpan non sequiturs and mock radio fanfare.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) Joe Rogan on the Discovery of the Bili Ape

Joe Rogan begins discussing the unknown creatures of the world, highlighting a newly discovered species of giant ape in the Bili region of the Congo known as the Bondo ape (or Bili ape). Rogan explains that local populations distinguish between two types of chimps: the standard "tree beaters" and the terrifying "lion killers." These lion killers are reported to be over six feet tall, weigh around 400 pounds, and nest directly on the ground rather than up in trees because they have no natural predators to fear. Rogan draws a comparison to human domestic habits, claiming that humans naturally place their master bedrooms on the upper floors of houses as an evolutionary remnant of chimpanzees nesting in trees for predator safety.

The conversation turns to the creature's unusual posture and documentation. Rogan describes how the Bondo ape walks upright rather than hunched with a flat back or with feet turned outward like ordinary chimpanzees. Bill Burr and the hosts joke about trying to imagine such a beast wearing coveralls and smoking a cigarette, or posing in vintage colonial photography. Rogan points to photographic evidence gathered by Swiss wildlife photographer Karl Ammann, who spent years tracking the ape. Rogan also references an archival photograph from around 1920 of a hunter in a safari pith helmet holding a massive shot primate—originally dismissed as an unusual gorilla, but now believed by some to be an early record of this giant chimp.

- **Bondo Ape Traits**: Reported by locals to stand roughly 6 feet tall, weigh up to 400 pounds, kill lions, walk upright, and build ground nests. - **Karl Ammann's Documentation**: Swiss wildlife photographer who tracked the animal in the Bili area of the Congo, capturing camera-trap photos of upright-standing specimens. - **Historical Evidence**: A circa-1920 photograph depicting two men displaying a shot specimen originally assumed to be a gorilla.

> “Could you imagine a chimp that's not 4 ft tall but a chimp that's 6 ft tall, 400 lb, just a giant and they walk upright.” — Joe Rogan

---

[02:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=147s) Rapid Evolution in the Congo and Studio Ribbing

When asked why this creature took so long to be discovered, Rogan claims the Congo environment is completely unique and asserts it has only existed in its current state for about 2,000 years. He describes it as an active hotspot where one can watch evolution happening in real time. As an example, he mentions the duiker, describing an antelope species that dives and swims underwater for 100 yards to catch and eat fish. According to Rogan, climate shifts transformed the Congo from open grasslands into dense rainforest, trapping savannah animals like rhinos and elephants and forcing rapid physical adaptations, similar to mudskippers or walking fish coming ashore.

The studio erupts in skepticism and teasing over Rogan's rapid-evolution timeline and television viewing habits. The hosts mockingly invoke Adam and Eve and joke that Rogan's consumption of weed lollipops has blended disparate nature documentaries into a single bizarre alternate reality. They laugh that Rogan is watching "revisionist broken history," joking that his basic cable feed features Wilbur and Orville Wright strapping themselves to pterodactyls and flying snakes coiling into helicopter blades before dropping on victims.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Rogan's Congo Rapid Evolution Theory accDescr: Flowchart illustrating Joe Rogan's explanation of how climate change forced plains animals to rapidly evolve in the Congo basin.

subgraph Environment["Environmental Shift"] A["Original Congo Grasslands"] -->|"Rapid climate change (asserted ~2,000 yrs)"| B["Dense Rainforest Basin"] end

subgraph TrappedFauna["Trapped Savannah Species"] B --> C["Plains Animals Enclosed (Rhinos, Elephants, Antelope)"] end

subgraph Adaptations["Forced Evolutionary Adaptations"] C --> D["Duiker / Antelope dives & swims 100 yds for fish"] C --> E["Giant Bondo Chimps adapt to ground nesting & lion hunting"] C --> F["Walking fish transition between water sources"] end ```

> “Joe's half asleep. He's watching one show on the Congo and then it switched into a show on evolution. He put them both together with a pot lollipop and now he's like revisionist broken history.” — Studio Host

---

[04:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=268s) Weed, TV Time, and Human Genetics

A caller named Josh from Washington, D.C., rings in to ask how Rogan manages to accumulate so much obscure knowledge. Rogan bluntly credits his relaxed work schedule as host of *Fear Factor*, explaining that it is essentially a part-time gig where he works roughly three days a week for fewer than eight hours a day, leaving him endless free time to smoke massive amounts of weed, watch science programming, and read.

Rogan elaborates that his fascination stems from anthropology and animal biology, arguing that society refuses to accept how closely humans resemble other primates. He highlights human genome sequencing showing humans share roughly 99% of their DNA with chimpanzees. To make his point, he poses an analogy: if someone offered you a sandwich that was 99% feces and 1% ham, no one would call it a ham sandwich. Rogan asserts that underneath cultural rituals, language, and social conventions, human beings are simply a more complex form of bacteria and no different from the rest of the animal kingdom.

> “I mean, if you ate a sandwich which was 99% shit and 1% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?” — Joe Rogan

---

[05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) On-Air Clash with a Calling Primatologist

The debate reaches a boiling point when a caller named Allison from Florida phones in, stating she is a primatologist and attempting to challenge Rogan's claims by questioning the idea of an unclassified hominoid chimp species. Rogan immediately goes on the offensive, labeling her out-of-date and aggressively interrogating her credentials. When Allison reveals that she earned her PhD in 2000, Rogan berates her for failing to stay current on modern primate fieldwork, asking if she has followed recent discoveries or Karl Ammann's work in the Congo.

When Allison scoffs and laughs at the claim, Rogan explodes, accusing her of relying on a decade-old degree while ignoring field evidence. He points out that coverage has appeared on major scientific and journalistic outlets like *National Geographic* and CNN, and emphasizes that researchers have recovered skulls, hair samples, tissue, and fecal matter, and have mapped the DNA of the Bondo ape. Allison dismisses these reports as "fringe science" and "fringe sites," suggesting people are chasing fake chimpanzees for notoriety. An enraged Rogan cuts her off, slamming educated professionals who dismiss new discoveries without conducting basic research, while Bill Burr quips that anyone who chooses to live in Florida where hurricanes strike has questionable judgment anyway. The segment heads to a commercial break as Rogan continues to fume over an academic writing off *National Geographic* and CNN as fringe.

- **Caller Credentials**: Allison, calling from Florida, holds a PhD in primatology earned in 2000. - **Physical Evidence Cited**: Skulls, photographic camera traps, fecal samples, hair, deceased specimens, and DNA sequencing. - **Media Outlets Debated**: Rogan cites *National Geographic* and CNN as mainstream documentation; the caller dismisses them as fringe science.

> “These are legitimate scientists and primatologists that are in the Congo studying this thing, and you don't know. Yet, you're calling up. You've done zero research on this.” — Joe Rogan

[08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=505s) Wrapping Up on Close-Mindedness and Comic Interjections

Joe Rogan finishes expressing his sheer bewilderment at the way people dismiss ideas or claims out of hand without taking the time to investigate them. He emphasizes how baffling it is that people form rigid conclusions about topics they have never actually researched, stating emphatically, “They think that they know without even looking into it.” To him, that knee-jerk certainty without curiosity or research is utterly unhinged, summing it up flatly: “That is insane.”

As Rogan concludes his rant, the studio hosts waste no time puncturing the intensity of the debate with deadpan comedic relief. One of the hosts smoothly bridges out with, “And with that, we'll continue,” immediately answered by an absurd non sequitur from the room: “I have a vagina.” This triggers an exaggerated radio-host fanfare, mocked up as an urgent bulletin: “Breaking news across the XM nation,” shifting the tone instantly from a heated argument about primate biology and fringe theories right back into typical radio banter.

## Mentioned Joe Rogan, Bill Burr, Karl Ammann, Bili ape, Fear Factor, National Geographic, CNN, Allison, Josh, XM

## Video description opie and anthony, Joe Rogan, Bill Burr, Primatologist, bonobo ape

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E)

中文简报

乔·罗根就刚果邦多猿证据与灵长类动物学家激烈交锋罗根认为，有资历的学者在未审查有记录的实物和基因证据的情况下，就否定了合法的灵长类野外发现。乔·罗根提出了关于刚果发现体型巨大、能直立行走的比利猿（邦多猿）的相关理论，将其独特的捕食特征归因于该地区迅速的环境演变。演播室主持人和喜剧演员比尔·伯尔对罗根进行了无情调侃，开玩笑称他在主持《极度恐惧》期间吸大麻打发闲暇时光，扭曲了他对科学纪录片的理解。当拥有灵长类动物学博士学位的打进电话者艾莉森指责这些说法属于边缘科学时，节目达到了白热化阶段，引发了一场激烈的辩论；罗根抨击她的资质已经过时，并指责她拒绝参考最新的实地证据。在罗根痛斥学术界的狭隘思维后，电台主持人迅速用荒诞离奇的闲扯打破了紧张气氛。乔·罗根详细介绍了有关刚果邦多（比利）猿的报告，将其描述为重达400磅、能直立行走、能够猎杀狮子并在地面筑巢的黑猩猩。 (0:00) 罗根断言刚果在2000年的时间里迅速由草原转变为茂密的热带雨林，从而迫使物种发生了极端的进化适应，这一说法遭到了演播室主持人的嘲笑。 (2:27) 罗根将自己深入研究生物学和人类学归功于主持《极度恐惧》时轻松的兼职日程，这让他有充足的时间吸食大麻并研究科学节目。 (4:28) 一位在2000年获得博士学位的灵长类动物学家与罗根发生了激烈冲突，将有关邦多猿的证据和主流报道斥为边缘科学。 (5:39)

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 该视频由 YouTube 频道 Comedians 'R' Go 于 2018 年 4 月 23 日发布。视频内容选自经典电台节目《欧皮与安东尼》（Opie and Anthony），主要记录了常驻嘉宾乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）与比尔·伯尔（Bill Burr）在演播室中探讨刚果巨型黑猩猩，并与一位打进热线的灵长类学者展开激烈辩论的精彩片段。 ## TL;DR 在节目中，乔·罗根兴致勃勃地向现场众人科普刚果新发现的巨型黑猩猩——比利猿（Bili ape），并结合刚果雨林的极端演化现象，探讨了人类未脱离动物本能的本质。面对比尔·伯尔等人的调侃，罗根坦言自己因工作清闲而大量阅读冷门科学奇闻。随后，一位自称拥有博士学位的女灵长类学者打进热线，斥责比利猿是毫无依据的“边缘科学”，随即引发罗根情绪失控般连珠炮式的猛烈反击，双方就学术盲区与实物证据展开了火药味十足的交锋，最后在电台标志性的荒诞音效中草草收场。 ## Atmosphere & style 整段音频呈现出极具《欧皮与安东尼》电台特色的喧闹与混乱感，前期充斥着喜剧演员们无底线的插科打诨与荒诞调侃，比尔·伯尔的毒舌吐槽让现场笑声不断。但随着学者热线的接通，气氛瞬间急转直下，演变为火星四溅的正面言语交火，罗根激昂且具侵略性的辩驳充满了难以置信的愤怒与紧绷感。最终，电台标志性的无厘头恶搞音效突兀切入，将剑拔弩张的学术对线瞬间拉回荒唐滑稽的日常混战，给听众带来大起大落的情绪反差。 ## Bulletin - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) Joe Rogan 在节目中详细介绍了刚果的比利猿（Bili ape），称其身高超 6 英尺、重达 400 磅且能直立行走，当地传闻该巨型黑猩猩甚至能捕杀狮子。 - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) 针对巨猿传闻，一位 2000 年获得博士学位的灵长类学者打进热线斥其为欺骗性的“边缘科学”，随即引发 Joe Rogan 的激烈反驳与质问。 - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) Joe Rogan 列举了头骨、组织毛发、粪便样本及 DNA 测序等实体科学证据，反击学术界闭门造车、不愿承认广袤热带雨林中存在未知物种的傲慢态度。 - [08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=505s) 现场嘉宾 Bill Burr 与主持团队在激烈交锋与生物学奇谈之余，通过无厘头的电台恶搞音效与插科打诨迅速化解了演播室的火药味。 ## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) 刚果当地人将黑猩猩分为两类：普通的“树木拍打者”与体型巨大、在地面筑巢的“狮子杀手”（比利猿）。 - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) 瑞士摄影师 Karl Ammann 拍摄的红外相机陷阱与实体照片证实比利猿能够直立行走，其体型远超普通黑猩猩并完全压制成年男子。 - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) 刚果雨林展现了奇特的实时演化现象，例如为了适应环境而能在水下潜水 100 码捕鱼的麂羚，以及能在陆地上爬行的鱼类。 - [03:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=222s) Bill Burr 调侃 Joe Rogan 是因吸食大麻而将探索频道的纪录片混淆成一锅荒谬的“历史修正主义”大乱炖。 - [03:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=222s) Joe Rogan 透露自己主持《Fear Factor》属于兼职工作，每周仅需工作三天，因而有大量闲暇时间阅读偏门知识与看纪录片。 - [03:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=222s) 人类与黑猩猩基因重合度高达约 99%，人类所依赖的文化与语言本质上只是为了掩盖自身的动物属性。 - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) 自称 2000 年毕业的灵长类学者 Allison 认为比利猿报道属于无稽之谈和“边缘科学”，并在通话中质疑其真实性。 - [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) Joe Rogan 情绪激动地反驳 Allison，强调该物种不仅被主流媒体报道，更已有头骨、毛发、粪便及 DNA 测序等多重实证支撑。 - [08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=505s) Joe Rogan 批评部分专业学者缺乏探索未知的好奇心，在未经任何实地调研的情况下就武断否定事实的态度极其荒谬。 - [08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=505s) 电台主持人通过经典的恶搞音效片花打圆场，迅速将节目的学术争论氛围拉回欧皮与安东尼标志性的日常插科打诨中。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=0s) 刚果的比利猿与演化奇观 Joe Rogan 兴致勃勃地向现场主持人和嘉宾 Bill Burr 介绍在刚果新发现的巨型黑猩猩物种——比利猿（Bondo ape / Bili ape）。他描述这种黑猩猩身高超过 6 英尺（约 1.83 米），体重可达 400 磅。当地人将黑猩猩分为两类：一种是普通的“树木拍打者”（tree beaters），另一种则是令人闻风丧胆的“狮子杀手”（lion killers）。与普通黑猩猩为了防备捕食者而睡在树上不同，这些体型巨大的“狮子杀手”直接在地面筑巢，甚至传闻它们能够猎杀狮子。Joe 还顺带借题发挥，笑称人类的主卧总喜欢设在二楼，其实正是遗传自黑猩猩为了防范捕食者而爬到树上睡觉的本能。 Joe 提到瑞士野生动物摄影师 Karl Ammann 耗费了大量生命去追踪拍摄这种巨猿。照片显示比利猿不仅体格庞大，而且能够直立行走，不像普通猩猩那样双脚外撇或背部与地面平行。节目现场还调出了红外相机陷阱拍摄到的站立画面，以及一张当地人猎杀巨猿后将其吊起合影的照片，巨猿的体型完全将身旁的成年男子压制下去。随后 Joe 将话题引向刚果生态系统的演化奇观。他声称刚果雨林形成时间并不算长（甚至脱口说出“刚果只有两千年历史”），由于气候从草原骤变为雨林，犀牛、大象等平原动物被迫困在森林中加速适应环境。他列举了能在水下潜水 100 码捕鱼的羚羊（潜水羚/麂羚，duiker），以及能离开水面在陆地上爬行前往下一片水域的鱼类，感叹演化过程如今就在刚果实时上演。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 比利猿与普通黑猩猩对比及演化环境 accDescr: 展示Joe Rogan描述的比利猿特征与刚果演化环境背景 subgraph Chimps["刚果黑猩猩分类（当地称呼）"] TB["树木拍打者 (Tree Beaters) • 普通体型 (~4英尺) • 树上筑巢防捕食"] BA["狮子杀手: 比利猿 (Bili/Bondo Ape) • 身高6英尺+，重约400磅 • 直立行走、长臂 • 地面筑巢，传闻可杀狮"] end subgraph CongoEnv["刚果环境剧变与演化"] Grass["原始草原气候"] -->|"气候骤变"| Forest["密集热带雨林"] Forest --> Adap1["平原动物被迫困入雨林适应"] Forest --> Adap2["会潜水吃鱼的羚羊 (Duiker)"] Forest --> Adap3["离开水面在陆地爬行的鱼类"] end ``` - 当地人称呼：树木拍打者（tree beaters）与狮子杀手（lion killers）。 - 比利猿形体特征：直立行走、身高 6 英尺以上、体重约 400 磅、长臂。 - 刚果奇特物种：会潜水 100 码吃鱼的潜水羚（duiker）、能在陆地上行走的鱼。 --- ### [03:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=222s) 演播室调侃与人类的动物本质面对 Joe 滔滔不绝的生物学奇谈，现场主持人和 Bill Burr 开始无情吐槽。Bill 调侃 Joe 是不是又吃大麻棒棒糖（pot lollipops）吃高了，把探索频道（Discovery Channel）的纪录片看串了味，把刚果雨林和演化历史炖成了一锅“历史修正主义”大乱炖。他们开玩笑说 Joe 脑海里大概还演着“莱特兄弟把自己绑在翼龙身上起飞”，或者“长得像直升机一样盘旋并砸在人身上的飞蛇”，戏称这简直是专属的“Rogan 有线电视频道”。随后，听众 Josh 从华盛顿特区打进热线，惊叹 Joe 为何懂得这么多冷门知识。Joe 坦然承认自己的生活状态极其惬意，称自己主持《行运超人》（Fear Factor）完全是兼职，一周只用工作三天，每天连八小时都不到，平时有大把时间一边大量抽大麻，一边看探索频道和广泛阅读各种怪异主题的书籍。谈到人类本质时，Joe 指出人类通过基因组测序证明与黑猩猩的基因重合度高达 99% 左右，但很多人却拒绝承认自己来自猿类。Joe 用了一个生动的比喻反问：“如果你吃了一个 99% 是排泄物、只有 1% 是火腿的三明治，你会管它叫火腿三明治吗？”（“I mean, if you ate a sandwich which was 99% shit and 1% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?”）他认为，人类本质上与动物毫无区别，只是用文化传统和语言为自己披上了伪装，剥开表面来看，人类终究不过是一种复杂的细菌形态。 - 工作日常：主持《Fear Factor》每周工作 3 天，每天不足 8 小时。 - 演化观点：人类与黑猩猩基因高度重合，文化与语言只是对动物本质的掩盖。 --- ### [05:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=339s) 灵长类学者来电：激烈交锋与“边缘科学”之争争论在来自佛罗里达州的女性听众 Allison 打进电话后达到顶点。Allison 一接通便试图以专业身份反驳，然而 Joe 立刻发起猛烈反攻，质问她的专业背景和学位。Allison 表示自己在 2000 年获得了博士学位，Joe 随即尖锐质问她毕业后是否跟进过最新科学发现，以及是否了解相关研究。在通话过程中，Allison 认为比利猿是无稽之谈甚至带有欺骗性质，直言这些报道是“边缘科学”（Fringe Science）。 Allison 的质疑彻底点燃了 Joe 的怒火，他情绪激动地连续反驳： > “There is bones, there's tissue samples, there's hair, there's fecal matter, there's all sorts of different things. Now, they've mapped the DNA of this animal already.” Joe 斥责她作为灵长类学者在毫无调查的情况下就断定是假的，并指出《国家地理》（National Geographic）和 CNN 等主流媒体早有报道，现场存在头骨、毛发、粪便样本、实体死尸以及 DNA 数据。他愤怒地质问对方怎么可能认定人类已经完全探明了数千英里广袤雨林里的所有生物。Allison 嘲讽 Joe 只是想把名字登在《国家地理》上，随后通话被切断。挂断后，Joe 依然余怒未消，难以置信对方作为专业学者居然对未知物种毫无好奇心，还把权威学术与主流媒体蔑称为“边缘科学”，现场主持人也借机调侃佛罗里达经常遭遇飓风的地理环境来缓和紧绷的气氛。 - 学者论据：来电者 Allison 自称 2000 年毕业的博士，指责巨猿报道属于“边缘科学”（Fringe Science）。 - Joe 的反驳证据：具备头骨（skulls）、身体组织、毛发（hair）、粪便样本（fecal matter）、尸体照片及 DNA 测序结果。 - 报道来源争议：National Geographic 与 CNN 等平台对刚果巨猿的报道被学者斥为边缘信息，引发激烈争执。 ### [08:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E&t=505s) 盲目自信的荒谬与电台过场在与那位自称灵长类动物专家的听众激烈交锋后，乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）依旧难掩心中的匪夷所思，对那些不加考证便自以为掌握真理的人做出了最后的辛辣抨击。罗根极其直白地指出，许多人甚至根本懒得去查阅任何事实依据，就想当然地认为自己全懂，他在节目中斥责道：“They think that they know without even looking into it.” 紧接着他又大声强调其荒谬程度：“That is insane.” 这种完全不愿深入了解真相便妄下断言的态度，令他感到不可理喻。随着罗根情绪激昂的收尾，电台主持人顺势接过话茬打圆场，宣布将话题翻篇：“And with that, we'll continue.” 话音刚落，演播室便切入了无厘头的电台恶搞音效，背景中突然冒出一句无厘头的电台垫话：“I have a vagina.” 紧接着响起了经典的广播快讯片头：“Breaking news across the XM nation.” 伴随着标志性的XM卫星电台包装声效，刚才紧张激烈的学术争辩瞬间被打破，节目迅速滑向了欧皮与安东尼（Opie and Anthony）标志性的荒诞调侃与日常混战之中。 - 争论总结：乔·罗根认为人们在未做任何背景调研前就自以为懂行是一种极其疯狂的心态（“That is insane.”）。 - 环节过渡：节目组通过突兀滑稽的电台音效片花（“I have a vagina.” 与 “Breaking news across the XM nation.”）迅速化解了演播室内的严肃火药味，平滑切入下一个广播环节。 ## Mentioned Joe Rogan, Bill Burr, Karl Ammann, 比利猿, 黑猩猩, 潜水羚, 探索频道, Fear Factor, Allison, 国家地理, CNN, XM卫星电台, Opie and Anthony ## Video description opie and anthony, Joe Rogan, Bill Burr, Primatologist, bonobo ape [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CvmS6uw7E)

Original transcript

[0:00] alien creature [0:00] There's some crazy [ __ ] that they [0:02] haven't even discovered yet. You know, [0:03] just recently they found a new species [0:05] of chimpanzee in the Congo. A gigantic [0:07] chimpanzee that's over 6 ft tall. It's [0:09] called the Bondo ape. The locals have [0:11] two different names for chimpanzees. [0:12] They have what they call the tree [0:13] beaters and the lion killers. And the [0:15] lion killers are these gigantic [0:17] chimpanzees. They're like 6 ft tall. [0:19] They get to be like 400 lb. They sleep [0:22] on the ground. Because they don't give a [0:24] [ __ ] They don't have to sleep in trees. [0:26] You know, people like your buildings [0:27] like when you we we we we all come from [0:29] chimpanzees obviously. When and we [0:31] people we always have our master bedroom [0:33] upstairs. And that's from our chimpanzee [0:35] heritage. That's what that's from. We we [0:37] stay upstairs to protect ourselves just [0:39] like yeah, just like chimps do. They [0:41] sleep in trees to protect themselves [0:42] from predators. These other chimps are [0:44] so bad ass they nest on the ground. [0:46] They're [ __ ] loc'd. They kill lions. [0:49] Like the locals that live in the Congo [0:50] say these things kill [ __ ] lions. [0:53] Could you imagine a chimp a chimp that's [0:55] not not 4 ft tall but a chimp that's 6 [0:57] ft tall, 400 lb, just a giant and they [1:00] walk upright. That's the crazy thing. If [1:02] you look it online, look up giant [1:04] mystery ape. It's called the Bondo ape. [1:06] It's in a part of the Congo called Bili. [1:08] Kind of hard to get him into those [1:09] coveralls and smoking a cigarette. [1:11] Yeah, that's not happening. [1:17] I mean there's a there's a photo. [1:19] There's a guy named Karl Ammann who's a [1:20] wildlife photographer from from [1:22] Switzerland who's dedicated a huge chunk [1:24] of his life tracking down this gigantic [1:26] chimpanzee. And he's got all these [1:28] photographs of it. And one of the crazy [1:29] things about it is the thing stands [1:30] upright. It doesn't walk with its feet [1:32] outward and it doesn't walk with its [1:34] like its back parallel to the ground. It [1:36] walks upright. And it's like got long [1:39] arms and it's it's a [ __ ] freaky [1:40] looking giant chimp. They have a a [1:42] photograph of one that they shot and [1:44] killed too. And it's like next to these [1:46] two guys and they're standing next to [1:47] them and it just dwarfs them. It's [1:48] [ __ ] enormous. [1:49] Is it a new picture of one of those old [1:51] time adventure helmet guys? [1:53] They have one of those too. [1:54] That one they have those old guy. Here's [1:55] what I bagged a dinosaur. [1:58] It's like this guy in a pith helmet and [1:59] a black and white picture of him holding [2:02] something up. [2:03] helmet. [2:04] Yeah, safari helmet. Could be a monkey, [2:05] could be a fish. [2:06] They do have an old photograph. [2:08] Some huge [ __ ] elephant gun he shot [2:10] him with. [2:11] They have an old photograph of one that [2:12] they believe is a Bondo ape that was [2:14] from like 1920. They always thought it [2:16] was just some freaky gorilla that [2:17] someone killed. [2:18] Yeah. [2:18] But now they believe it's this this this [2:20] gigantic chimpanzee. [2:22] And they have they like they're holding [2:23] it. Two guys are holding it up and it's [2:24] bigger than both of them and it's a [2:25] chimp. It's a huge chimp. [2:27] it take so long to discover this? [2:28] Congo is insane. The Congo is like first [2:31] of all the Congo's only been around for [2:32] 2,000 years. I mean the Congo is one of [2:34] the weirdest parts of the world because [2:35] it's one of the the one the rare places [2:37] where you can see evolution happening [2:39] right now. There's a an animal called [2:41] the diker that's an antelope that swims [2:43] underwater. Oh, that's the chimp. You [2:44] got a picture of [2:45] See how it's standing up this [2:46] [ __ ] [2:47] Yeah. See how the [ __ ] thing is [2:48] standing up? No, that's real, bro. It's [2:50] a camera trap. [2:51] Wow. [2:52] See the other one? That's the the other [2:53] one is the one that they killed. [2:55] Yeah. [2:55] But in the Congo, there's an animal [2:57] called a diker which is an antelope that [2:59] swims underwater for 100 yards. It can [3:01] swim underwater and it eats fish. It's a [3:03] [ __ ] antelope. Because what happened [3:05] was the Congo used to be grasslands, but [3:07] the climate changed and all of a sudden [3:09] it became a rainforest and all these [3:10] plains animals like rhinos and [3:12] elephants, they all got trapped in this [3:13] [ __ ] forest and they had to adapt. [3:15] And they're adapting right now and you [3:17] can see it. There's all kinds of crazy [3:19] [ __ ] Like well like there's fish that [3:20] come out of [ __ ] water and walk on [3:23] land to the next water. That's [3:25] evolution. That's what we supposedly [3:27] did, right? People came out of the [3:29] ocean, they walked on land. You can [3:30] [ __ ] see that in the Congo. It's [3:32] happening right now. [3:33] Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve. [3:35] And it's only happening over the last [3:36] 2,000 years. [3:38] Eve made Adam eat the apple. I ain't no [3:41] thing in evolution. [3:42] pot again, man. I thought it was a [3:43] lollipops. [3:44] I'm convinced. [3:45] Maybe you're watching Discovery Channel [3:46] with the lollipops and getting a little [3:48] twisted view of things. [3:49] Oh dude, I it's it's a cocktail of pot [3:52] things. [3:52] He's having too much fun with his [3:54] Joe's half asleep. He's watching one [3:55] show on the Congo and then it switched [3:57] into a show on evolution. He put them [3:59] both together with a pot lollipop and [4:01] now he's like revisionist broken [4:03] history. [4:05] Dude, I swear to god. A [ __ ] [4:08] pterodactyl and Orville and Wilbur [4:10] Wright strapped themselves to this [4:11] [ __ ] thing. [4:13] I want to get Joe Rogan basic cable. [4:15] Whatever channel he's watching. [4:17] Dude, they got these [ __ ] snakes, [4:18] right? And they can fly. [4:21] THEY [ __ ] THEY COIL UP AND IT'S LIKE [4:22] A helicopter and they [ __ ] land on [4:25] you. Back. [4:26] On Rogan cable. [4:28] Uh we got to go to Josh in DC. Josh, [4:30] what's up? [4:31] What's up, guys? Yo, with all due [4:32] respect, Joe, how the [ __ ] do you know [4:34] all this stuff? I swear I [4:36] I watched this on Discovery Channel 20 [4:38] years ago when I was [4:38] Dude, I got the cushiest job ever. Fear [4:41] Factor is a part-time job, literally. I [4:43] work 3 days a week. I don't even work 8 [4:45] hours a day and I smoke pounds of weed. [4:49] Dude, seriously, I smoke the [ __ ] that [4:50] the government drops off in the ghetto [4:51] to keep the black man down. [4:53] I don't know if you're eating, but you [4:54] watch the TV and you learn all this. [4:55] You watch a lot of Discovery [4:56] Yeah, I watch a lot of a lot but I also [4:59] read a lot. I just I get fascinated by [5:02] weird subjects like a lot of animal [ __ ] [5:04] because I'm just fascinated by humans in [5:06] general and the fact that humans are [5:07] mostly animals. It's like people don't [5:09] want to admit that people came from [5:10] monkeys but meanwhile they've mapped the [5:11] human genome. We're 99% [ __ ] [5:14] chimpanzee. Like at what percentage do [5:16] we have to admit we're a [ __ ] monkey? [5:17] Does it have to be 100? I mean, if you [5:19] ate a sandwich which was 99% [ __ ] and 1% [5:22] ham, would you call it a ham sandwich? [5:24] You know? [5:27] We're [ __ ] monkeys, man, and it's [5:29] just fascinating that we we color [5:31] ourselves with with cultural traditions [5:33] and language and all this [ __ ] when [5:35] at the bottom line we're really just a [5:36] complicated form of bacteria. [5:38] You're no different than any other [5:39] animal. [5:39] Allison from Florida is going to [5:40] challenge you. Allison, go ahead. [5:43] Yeah, I'm not a primatologist. There's [5:44] no such thing as a as a hominoid. [5:47] You're a [ __ ] idiot. Go online and [5:48] look it up. You're a what? What do you [5:50] do? It's a new discovery. You're a [5:51] primatologist. Go look it up. You're not [5:53] current. Pay attention. Go online and [5:55] look it up. [5:56] Um yeah, this is new to [5:57] Yeah, you've learned some [ __ ] from [5:58] college. When did you graduate? [6:00] I have PhD from the [6:02] When did you graduate? When? [6:05] It's in 2000. [6:06] Yeah, when was the last time you got [6:07] online and researched primates? Have you [6:09] ever looked at any of the new [6:10] discoveries? Have you looked at any of [6:12] the Carl Akeley's work? [6:14] Yeah, I've been [6:15] What are you laughing at? Why are you [6:16] laughing? Why are you laughing? I'll [6:17] tell you why you're laughing cuz you [6:18] don't have a point. So, you're trying to [6:20] Oh, you're ridiculous. That's I have a [6:23] PhD. Meanwhile, there's all sorts of [6:25] photographs of this this primate, this [6:27] gigantic chimpanzee. Not only that, it's [6:29] on National Geographic, stupid. [6:31] nationalgeographic.com, [6:33] cnn.com, stupid. No, NO, NO, NO, NO. [6:36] THERE IS BONES, there's tissue samples, [6:38] there's hair, there's fecal matter, [6:40] there's all sorts of different things. [6:41] Now, they've mapped the DNA of this [6:43] animal already. [6:45] Oh, please. [6:45] We need Oh, please, stupid. You haven't [6:48] paid attention to it at all. These are [6:50] legitimate scientists and primatologists [6:52] that are in the Congo studying this [6:53] thing, and you don't know. Yet, you're [6:55] calling up. You've done zero research on [6:58] this. You haven't looked into it at all. [6:59] YOU'RE TELLING ME WE KNOW all the [7:00] animals that are in the world? Are you [7:02] telling me we know all the animals in [7:04] THIS GIGANTIC SEVERAL THOUSAND mile long [7:07] intense rain forest? We've mapped that [7:10] out. [7:10] fake chimpanzee out there. [7:12] No, it's not a fake, stupid. It's [7:14] It's not a fake. Listen, they have [7:16] skulls. Listen to me. They have skulls, [7:20] they have hair, they have fecal samples, [7:22] they have photographs, they have a dead [7:24] one. [7:25] Okay? Yeah. Bye. [7:27] Fringe Science. [7:29] Not Fringe. CNN, okay? National [7:32] Geographic. [7:33] All these different legitimate [7:35] scientific resources. Go look it up. [7:38] Bye. [7:39] You'd like to prove that, wouldn't you? [7:40] Get your name in the National [7:42] Geographic? [7:42] Silly, LISTEN TO HER. [7:44] I have a PhD. [7:46] I mean, why do people argue about [7:47] something they haven't looked into AT [7:48] ALL? WHY WOULDN'T she as a primatologist [7:50] go, "Whoa, for real? Let me look into [7:52] that. Holy [ __ ] Well, well, that makes [7:54] sense. I mean, how could they possibly [7:55] know all the primates? I mean, couldn't [7:57] there possibly be another one?" But no. [8:00] Where was she from? [8:01] Uh Florida. Florida? Somewhere in [8:03] Florida there. [8:03] She's dumb enough to live where [8:04] hurricanes hit her. [8:05] All right, listen. We're going to We're [8:06] going to take another break. Right. [8:08] We're going to play the uh [8:11] the tribute song for the victims of [8:12] Hurricane Katrina when we get back. [8:14] I am a primatologist. Those are fringe [8:17] sites. Like National Geographic is a [8:19] [ __ ] fringe site. CNN is a [ __ ] [8:22] fringe site. [8:24] She That's what It angers me about [8:25] people. They think that they know [8:27] without even looking into it. That is [8:28] insane. [8:31] And with that, we'll continue. [8:33] I have a vagina. [8:35] Breaking news across the XM nation.