Sixth Street's Waxman Sees Private Capital Owning U.S. Sports Teams

Sixth Street首席执行官Waxman：私募资本终将控股美国体育球队 球队估值与基础设施成本的飙升终将超出个人亿万富翁的财力，迫使美国各大体育联盟接受机构掌握控股权。 Sixth Street首席执行官Alan Waxman深入探讨了公司在全球体育领域的战略投资，详细介绍了收购新英格兰爱国者队（New England Patriots）少数股权的缘起，以及早先入股NBA圣安东尼奥马刺队（San Antonio Spurs）的举措。他阐述了Sixth Street向Bay FC投资5300万美元背后的财务逻辑，并预测随着需求超过供给，女子体育领域将迎来估值的大幅增长。此外，Waxman还预测机构私募股权最终将获得美国“三大”体育联盟球队的控股权，并与Alex Rodriguez一同提出了通过整合媒体版权、设立工资帽和指定球员规则推动美国职业棒球大联盟（MLB）现代化的蓝图。 Sixth Street 联合创始人兼 CEO Alan Waxman 预测，随着球队估值攀升以及围绕场馆和不动产的基础设施投资需求达到数百亿美元，机构私募资本最终将获得美国三大主要体育联盟（MLB、NBA、NFL）特许经营权的控股权。 (0:02) 在通过 NFL 极其严格的机构投资者审查后，NFL 首席财务官 Joe Siclare 牵线搭桥，促成了 Sixth Street 迅速入股 Robert 和 Jonathan Kraft 旗下的新英格兰爱国者队（New England Patriots）。 (1:16) Waxman 指出，传统 PE 基金 5 至 7 年的退出周期根本不适合体育投资；而像 Sixth Street 这样更具耐心的多资产资本结构，能够与特许经营权持有家族长期并肩协同。 (5:48) Sixth Street 曾在疫情初期球队收入骤降时通过冷启动电话入股圣安东尼奥马刺队，目前篮球运动正受益于非美籍球星爆发以及全新国家级媒体版权交易带来的估值重估。 (12:48) Sixth Street 斥资 5300 万美元获得 NWSL 扩军球队 Bay FC 的控股权，成为首个控股美国主要职业球队的机构投资者，这一被视作非对称收益的押注迅速拉动了女子足球联盟后续更高的估值重估。 (15:48)

Sixth Street Partners co-founder and CEO Alan Waxman argues that soaring valuations and immense capital requirements will inevitably force major sports leagues to accept institutional majority ownership, requiring long-duration investment structures rather than traditional private equity models. Capital Architecture and Cultural Alignment in Team Stakes (1:16) Waxman states that standard private equity fund structures—which require asset liquidations every five to seven years—are fundamentally unsuited for sports investing. Instead, patient private capital allows funds to partner with legacy owners over long horizons. Sixth Street applied this framework when acquiring a minority stake in the New England Patriots after NFL Chief Financial Officer Joe Siclare suggested Waxman meet Robert and Jonathan Kraft based on shared organizational culture. Waxman notes that negotiations avoided contentious valuation disputes, resulting in a swift agreement on price. Underwriting International Demand and League Scarcity (5:48) Waxman and co-host Alex Rodriguez identify extreme asset scarcity—such as the 32-team cap in the NFL—and locked-in media rights as key supports for team valuations and cash flows. Both investors view international market expansion as the primary engine for future growth. Waxman points to an NBA game in Paris featuring San Antonio Spurs star Victor Wembanyama that drew an atmosphere rivaling the NBA Finals, showing how individual foreign players can unlock entire national audiences. Rodriguez notes that international players won the previous eight NBA MVP awards, signaling a structural globalization of the sport's talent and audience. Early-Mover Bets and Re-Ratings Across Basketball and Soccer (12:48) Sixth Street capitalized on valuation dislocations by acquiring an initial stake in the San Antonio Spurs during the COVID-19 pandemic, initiating discussions through an unsolicited call from partner Austin Bowers to Spurs CEO RC Buford. In women's sports, the firm paid a record $53 million expansion fee to secure majority control of Bay FC in the National Women's Soccer League, up from historical league fees of $3 million to $4 million. Waxman's thesis targeted commercialization beyond corporate "impact" budgets toward chief marketing officer budgets. The valuation environment shifted quickly thereafter, marked by Willow Bay and Bob Iger's $250 million valuation acquisition of Angel City FC and Mellody Hobson paying roughly four times Bay FC's entry fee for a Denver franchise. The Inevitability of Institutional Control and MLB Reform (19:53) Waxman forecasts that institutional capital will inevitably acquire full control of franchises across MLB, the NBA, and the NFL within his lifetime. He argues that maintaining and expanding franchises now demands hundreds of billions in real estate and infrastructure, ultimately exceeding the net worth of individual billionaires. To sustain future values, Waxman contends teams must develop substantial adjacent real estate. In Major League Baseball, Waxman proposes introducing higher minimum salaries, a hard salary cap, and a soccer-style Designated Player rule so teams can sign marquee stars without cap penalties. Rodriguez views current labor and regional sports network disruptions as an attractive entry point, forecasting consolidated national broadcasts similar to the NFL model. While Waxman foresees institutional control becoming a structural necessity as franchise assets outgrow individual wealth, current league rules still bar majority private equity ownership in the Big Three leagues, leaving the timing of regulatory change uncertain.

Sixth Street Partners 联合创始人兼首席执行官 Alan Waxman 指出，随着特许经营权估值飙升以及周边巨额地产与基础设施开发的需求激增，机构资本未来在北美主要职业体育联盟中获得绝对控制权将不可避免。他认为，体育资产投资的核心支撑力来自稀缺性供需、全球化扩张空间，以及抛弃传统私募股权快速退出周期的耐心资本架构。 估值扩张推动机构资本走向控股 (0:02) 在对谈中，Alex Rodriguez 提出机构资本是否能在有生之年彻底控股 MLB、NBA 或 NFL 旗下 92 支核心特许经营权之一。Waxman 明确预测这一局面终将发生，但他也提醒，当前的球队估值若要合理化，必须依靠周边庞大的附属基础设施与地产开发项目来提供底层现金流支撑。然而，随着维持与发展单支球队所需的资本规模达到数千亿美元量级，这些资产的净值体量终将超出单个超级富豪的个人承受能力。这种资本供需的失衡，将迫使历来对私募基金控制权持审慎态度的联盟总裁们不得不放开机构控股权限。 针对传统私募股权投资的缺陷，Waxman 强调，强制在 5 至 7 年内出售资产的传统基金架构与职业体育投资在本质上并不兼容。Sixth Street 的投资模式偏向建立灵活且长期的私募资本平台，通过筹集匹配特定市场机会的专项基金而非为了赚取管理费而追求巨型基金规模。这种长期资本使得他们能够与球队所有者家族平稳共处，而不必为了基金清算时间表而被迫过早寻求退出。 NFL稀缺价值与爱国者队的入股逻辑 (1:16) 在谈及 Sixth Street 收购 New England Patriots 少数股权的交易时，Waxman 披露了幕后细节：在 NFL 完成针对私募资本极其严苛的资格审查流程后，NFL 首席财务官 Joe Siclare 主动联系了他，认为 Sixth Street 与 Robert Kraft 和 Jonathan Kraft 家族在组织文化上高度契合。双方在首次会面中就确立了对团队价值观和发展目标的共识，且在简短沟通后迅速就合理价格达成一致，避免了破坏长期合作关系的激进压价谈判。 在分析少数股权投资的财务承保逻辑时，Waxman 指出 NFL 具备持久的商业稳定性与卓越的管理层治理。Alex Rodriguez 将持有 NFL 球队比作持有全球仅有 32 块的顶尖海滨稀缺房产，兼具资产升值潜力与罕见的现金流稳定性。此外，联盟锁定的全美转播合同以及巨大的海外市场扩张空间构成了核心支撑。Waxman 结合自身在巴黎观看 Victor Wembanyama 代表圣安东尼奥马刺队比赛的经历，指出超级国际球星能够单枪匹马为球队打开一整个国家的粉丝市场，印证了美国职业体育在海外尚未被完全挖掘的巨大商业潜力。 NBA早期卡位与女足的不对称投资机遇 (12:48) Sixth Street 进入 NBA 的时机发生在约五到六年前的新冠疫情低谷期。当时球队营收骤降至接近零水平，但联盟放宽了所有权规则，Sixth Street 投资人 Austin Bowers 通过冷电联系马刺队首席执行官 RC Buford 促成了对圣安东尼奥马刺队的股权投资。Waxman 指出，随着新的全国媒体版权协议落地及大量机构资本涌入，NBA 估值已在 2026 年迎来了系统性重估。Rodriguez 补充称，过去连续八座 MVP 奖杯均由非美籍球员摘得，证明篮球运动的人才储备与观众基础已发生不可逆的全球化倾斜。 在女子体育领域，Sixth Street 成为首个对美国主流体育俱乐部实现控股的机构基金，以 5300 万美元的特许经营费建立了女足俱乐部 Bay FC，而此前 NWSL 的扩军费仅为 300 万至 400 万美元。Waxman 解释其承保逻辑在于发现 NWSL 赞助收入此前大多被归入企业“社会影响力”预算，而非真正的首席营销官（CMO）商业预算，存在巨大的商业化套利空间。随后的市场验证极其迅速：Mellody Hobson 支付了约四倍的价格获取丹佛扩军资格，Willow Bay 和 Bob Iger 则以 2.5 亿美元估值收购 Angel City FC 控股权。Waxman 预测，未来 3 到 4 年内后续买家支付的溢价将进一步证明早期进入者的价格优势。 MLB商业化整合与薪资结构重构方案 (21:22) 针对 Major League Baseball（MLB）的发展瓶颈，Rodriguez 提出了逆向投资观点。他认为，当前劳资协议（CBA）不确定性与潜在罢工阴影笼罩的市场环境反而是过去 15 年来投资 MLB 的最佳窗口期。他预计联盟主席 Rob Manfred 最终将整合目前分散的区域体育网络（RSN）媒体版权，效仿 NFL 模式打造统一的全国性转播产品。结合全美、日本及加拿大的跨国收视，世界大赛第七场能够吸引高达 5300 万观众，证明优质对决依然具备巨大的全球流量变现能力。 Waxman 则提出了激进的赛制与薪酬设计方案：MLB 应当引入更高的最低薪资标准以及硬性工资帽，同时设立类似于 MLS 的“指定球员”（Designated Player）规则。该规则允许每支球队指定 1 至 3 名像大谷翔平这样的超级巨星，球队可支付巨额薪酬而不计入受竞争平衡限制的工资帽内。拥有近 25 年球员工会（MLBPA）资历的 Rodriguez 对此表示赞同，指出必须改变当前 10% 顶层球员拿走全联盟 70% 至 80% 薪资总额的极度不均衡现状，实现劳资利益与整体利益的更广泛再分配。 Waxman 认为机构资本入主北美主流联赛是经济规律驱动的必然结果，但这一进程能否在保障投资者回报的同时维持竞技生态健康，仍取决于转播版权的全国性整合、海外市场的实质性变现以及新型劳资利益分配机制的落地。

## Background 该视频由彭博旗下频道 Bloomberg Originals 于 2026 年 5 月 21 日在 YouTube 平台发布。节目中，Alex Rodriguez 与 Jason Kelly 深度对话 Sixth Street 联合创始人兼首席执行官 Alan Waxman，探讨入股新英格兰爱国者队、NBA 的国际化增长契机，以及在女子职业足球（NWSL）创纪录支付加盟费背后的商业逻辑。 ## TL;DR Sixth Street 首席执行官 Alan Waxman 在访谈中详述了其横跨 NFL、NBA 及女子体育的“耐心私募资本”投资哲学。他指出顶尖球队估值的合理化离不开周边基础设施与地产资产的协同，并回顾了与新英格兰爱国者队 Kraft 家族的文化契合以及早期逆势入局 NBA 圣安东尼奥马刺队的经历。此外，Waxman 深度解析了以创纪录加盟费打造 Bay FC、押注女子体育赞助由社会责任转向 CMO 商业预算的高赔率逻辑，并预言机构资本终将完全控股北美三大职业联盟。节目最后，嘉宾与主持人们还就统一转播权、引入硬工资帽及指定球员机制等重塑 MLB 棒球格局的方案展开了头脑风暴。 ## Atmosphere & style 对谈在 Bloomberg Invest 的舞台上展开，整体基调专业犀利又兼具老友相聚般的轻松幽默。A-Rod 凭借其顶尖职业运动员兼资深投资人的双重视角频频抛出关键发问，与 Waxman 沉稳务实、反教条的华尔街大将风范碰撞出强烈火花。现场在剖析“直肠镜式尽调”与分享退休冲浪调侃时笑声不断，但在推演未来数千亿美元体育基建和所有权格局变迁时又极具前瞻穿透力，带给观众一种在资本顶峰洞悉体育帝国运作内幕的沉浸体验。 ## Bulletin - [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=2s) Sixth Street 首席执行官 Alan Waxman 预测，机构资本在有生之年必将完全控股北美三大职业体育联盟（MLB、NBA、NFL）的球队，推动力来自高额基础设施与地产投资导致的超级富豪个人承接力瓶颈。 - [07:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=478s) Waxman 强调传统 5 至 7 年必须退出的私募股权（PE）并不适合投资职业体育，唯有无固定退出期限、耐心的私募资本（Private Capital）才能与不急于变现的球队所有者家族达成长期共赢。 - [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=949s) 在女子体育领域，Sixth Street 曾以创纪录的 5300 万美元加盟费创立 NWSL 球队 Bay FC，背后看中的是赞助预算正加速从公益性质的“企业社会责任资金池”质变转向追求回报的“CMO 市场营销资金池”。 - [21:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1282s) 面对大联盟（MLB）的制度困境，Waxman 提出“提升底薪保障 + 硬工资帽 + 1 至 2 名指定球员特例”的薪酬重构方案，以兼顾联盟竞争均势与超级巨星的顶额市场变现。 ## Key takeaways - [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=2s) 机构资本完全控股三大联盟球队在未来不可避免，因为高企的球队估值与数千亿美元周边基建投资将超出单一个人或家族的承受上限。 - [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=2s) 要支撑并证明当前球队的天价估值合理，必须深度布局周边大型基础设施和地产相邻资产，单靠转播与门票收入无法长期维持高估值。 - [01:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=76s) Sixth Street 坚持“投资者至上架构”，不盲目追求巨型母基金，而是按赛道机会规模精准募集小型基金，打破资产品类与地域的教条划分。 - [02:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=142s) 入股新英格兰爱国者队源自 NFL 首席财务官牵线的文化契合，谈判中摒弃了反复拉锯的博弈，双方基于公允价值极速达成共识。 - [05:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=348s) 顶级体育 IP 正从本土向全球市场裂变，外籍球星与海外常规赛正极大释放像马刺与 NFL 这样顶尖品牌的跨国变现红利。 - [07:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=478s) 传统 PE 强制 5 到 7 年退出的资金属性与体育资产天然冲突，职业体育投资需要的是没有套现倒计时的耐心资本。 - [09:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=587s) NFL 凭借全美仅 32 席的绝对垄断稀缺性、强劲转播现金流与海外城市超额承办需求，被视作顶级“A 类信用资产”。 - [12:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=769s) 新冠疫情造成的球场停摆反而打破了壁垒，使原本高不可攀的顶级体育资产向机构资本开放准入，加速了资产类别的机构化升级。 - [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=949s) Sixth Street 斥资 5300 万美元重金创立 Bay FC 成为首家控股主流职业球队的机构，精准捕捉了女子体育赞助转向 CMO 商业预算的范式转移。 - [19:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1149s) 优质体育特许席位属于供给极其受限的稀缺资产，后续入场的女足投资者估值在三到四年内预计将被后来者衬托得格外精明。 - [21:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1282s) 针对棒球改革，Alex Rodriguez 提议效仿 NFL 将割裂的地方转播版权收归联盟集中运营，并借世界大赛的高收视证明其深厚底蕴。 - [21:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1282s) 棒球劳工制度面临严峻失衡，70% 到 80% 收益流向顶层 10% 球员，工会需改革分配机制以保障广大基层球员的基础权益。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=2s) 机构资本进入职业体育与估值的未来 在节目的开场，Alex Rodriguez、Jason Kelly 与 Sixth Street 联合创始人兼首席执行官 Alan Waxman 探讨了一个直击行业核心的问题：在我们有生之年，机构资本是否会真正完全控股北美三大职业体育联盟（MLB、NBA、NFL）共 92 支球队中的任何一支？Waxman 笃定地给出了肯定回答：“这在我们有生之年一定会发生。”但他随即提出了一个关键的前提警示：要想支撑并证伪目前水涨船高的估值，球队必须在周边配套的大型基础设施和地产相邻资产（Real Estate Adjacency）上进行实质性布局，否则从长远来看，这些天价估值很可能会被证明过高。 随后现场切换至 Bloomberg Invest 的录制舞台，主持人 Jason Kelly 隆重介绍了 Alan Waxman 和他的 Sixth Street。Alex Rodriguez 则对 Waxman 拿下新英格兰爱国者队（New England Patriots）的少数股权交易尤为痴迷。在 A-Rod 眼中，爱国者队的老板 Robert Kraft 与 Jonathan Kraft 毫无疑问稳居他个人心目中“所有权团队的总统山（Mount Rushmore）”之巅。同时，Sixth Street 的投资触角早已横跨足球、篮球与棒球，甚至引得 A-Rod 半开玩笑地预言：“你们迟早会把棒球行业也修好。” ### [01:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=76s) Sixth Street 的投资哲学：反教条与投资者至上架构 面对 Jason Kelly 提出用“大约 30 秒概括投资理念”的挑战，Alan Waxman 提炼出的核心词汇是“极致的灵活性（Complete flexibility）”。Sixth Street 从创立的第一天起，就没有按照传统私募机构按资产品类或地理区域划分阵营的刻板模式来搭建，而是跨资产类别、跨地域、跨行业寻找最具相对风险收益比（Risk-Reward）的优质标的。支撑这种灵活性的内核，是一种摒弃个人英雄主义的企业文化——用 Waxman 的原话来说，团队里全是一群“已经看淡自我的人（People who are over themselves）”，坚决杜绝膨胀的自负、虚伪的说辞、内部政治以及各自为政的小王国（Fiefdoms）。 为了确保投资行为不走样，Sixth Street 特别设计了一套“投资者至上架构（Investor-first architecture）”。他们并不盲目追求募集规模庞大到不可驾驭的巨型母基金，而是针对特定策略设立规模适度的小型基金，让资金体量严格匹配市场机会本身的大小。这种组织结构让公司能够从全局生态的视角俯瞰市场，敏锐捕捉最顶级的投资主题。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Sixth Street 投资架构与核心理念 accDescr: 展示 Sixth Street 从文化基石到投资架构，再到策略落地的逻辑流程。 subgraph Culture["文化与组织基因"] C1["摈弃自负与内部政治<br/>(No egos, no bs, no fiefdoms)"] C2["看淡个人英雄主义<br/>(People over themselves)"] end subgraph Architecture["投资者至上架构"] A1["按赛道机会规模募资<br/>(Size funds to opportunity)"] A2["跨资产类别与跨地域灵活配置"] end subgraph Execution["投资落地与赋能"] E1["全球生态系统顶级主题捕捉"] E2["耐心的长期资本运作"] end Culture --> Architecture Architecture --> Execution ``` ### [02:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=142s) 撬动爱国者队：一封邮件背后的文化契合 Alex Rodriguez 紧接着追问 Waxman 是如何攻克爱国者队的 Robert Kraft 和 Jonathan Kraft 父子的。Waxman 首次公开披露了这笔交易背后的始末。当时 NFL 刚刚完成针对准入机构投资者的严格背景调查与准入审批，这一漫长而细致的过程被戏称为一场极其痛苦的“直肠镜式体检（Proctology exam）”，联盟最终只挑选并向极少数几家机构发放了准入的“金钥匙”。在 Sixth Street 获得批准后，主导全联盟尽职调查防线的 NFL 首席财务官 Joe Siclare 主动给 Waxman 发来一封电子邮件，写道：“你见过 Robert 和 Jonathan Kraft 吗？我觉得你们在文化上会非常合得来，你应该去见见他们。” 彼时 Kraft 家族根本没有对外出售少数股权的计划，但双方初次会面后便迅速建立起深刻的认同感。Waxman 回忆道，现场的感觉“就像一家人一样”，双方在球队价值观、组织文化以及目标的清晰度（Clarity of purpose）上达到了罕见的绝对共识。爱国者队在赛场上的辉煌战绩世人皆知，但外界往往忽视了 Kraft 家族在日常管理机构时所倾注的大量极其微小、极其细腻的基础工作。这种即刻的共鸣不仅促成了这笔交易，也贯穿了 Sixth Street 投资的所有全球冠军品牌——包括皇家马德里（Real Madrid）、巴塞罗那（FC Barcelona）、旧金山巨人（San Francisco Giants）、圣安东尼奥马刺（San Antonio Spurs）以及波士顿凯尔特人（Boston Celtics）。 当 A-Rod 追问双方在确定估值时是否经历过“一方喊 90 亿、另一方还 60 亿”的激烈拉锯时，Waxman 坦言，这绝非那种讨价还价的传统交易：“这是一段长期合作关系，在寻找合伙人时，你最不想做的事情就是反复拉锯。大家心里都清楚什么是公允的，彼此只是在寻求公平。”双方的商业谈判极短时间内就达成了一致，握手成交。 - **文化一致性的考察标准**：Waxman 强调，评估无论是体育球队还是任何一家被投企业，关键是观察管理层如何对待基层普通员工、不同层级的人眼中的战略方向是否统一，而非“一个人看出一套蓝图，其他人各执一词”。 ### [05:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=348s) 为什么投资 NFL：持久生命力与超级国际化 针对 Jason Kelly 关于“身为没有任何运营话语权的少数股东，为何依然重金押注 NFL”的提问，Waxman 详细拆解了底层承销逻辑。首要因素在于联赛本身的超强韧性（Durability）以及顶级管理层。Waxman 对联盟总裁 Roger Goodell 及其管理团队给予了极高的“A+”评价，称其为世界级的专业组织；其次则是波士顿得天独厚的体育市场深度与极其忠诚的球迷群体。 更深层的增长逻辑，在于现代体育 IP 从本地向全球裂变的潜力。Waxman 指出，二十年前的职业球队本质上是区域性品牌，做好本土运营是生存的前提；但如今，只要立足于优质的本地根基，顶级球队就拥有了向全球市场无限渗透的机会。他以 Sixth Street 投资的圣安东尼奥马刺队以及新星 Victor Wembanyama 为例：去年马刺队赴法国巴黎打常规赛时，现场的火爆程度和狂热氛围“简直就像 NBA 总决赛一样”，瞬间点燃了整个国家的市场，而 NFL 正在经历完全相同的全球扩张红利。 - **巨头朋友圈的趣味交集**：当提到波士顿与纽约的体育竞争时，现场互动笑声不断。Waxman 笑着提及他们同时也是波士顿凯尔特人的投资人，并且在商业版图上与纽约洋基队（New York Yankees）保持着紧密的合作伙伴关系，展现了超越单一地域体育宿怨的投资广度。 ### [07:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=478s) 私募股权 vs 私募资本：赛跑机制与地产基础设施红利 讨论延伸至外部资本在体育领域的实际成效时，Waxman 做出了一个极具行业洞察力的重要概念区隔：**传统私募股权（Private Equity）**与**真正的私募资本（Private Capital）**存在本质区别。许多传统 PE 基金的资金期限与负债结构极其脆弱，受限于固定的生命周期，往往被强制要求在五到七年内必须退出套现。Waxman 毫不留情地直言：“无论你拥有的是控股权还是少数股权，用这种 5 到 7 年必须退出的资金去投职业体育球队，都是一个极其糟糕的主意（A terrible idea）。” 很多掌握顶尖球队的家族掌门人根本没有变现套现的迫切需求，他们需要的不是带着倒计时的投机客，而是能够长期同舟共济的良性合伙人。因此，Sixth Street 依靠极其耐心的长期资本（Patient capital）构建投资载体。展望未来，Waxman 强调，单纯依靠门票与转播合同将无法持续支撑当前高企的估值，体育投资的下一波巨大浪潮，必须落实在围绕球场周边的重大基础设施建设与综合地产开发上；唯有依靠这些相邻资产产生的复合现金流与协同效应，现有以及未来的顶峰估值才能真正被合理化。 ### [09:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=587s) 审视 NFL 投资逻辑：不可替代的稀缺性、国际化与家族合伙 谈及评估一支国家美式橄榄球联盟（NFL）球队的价值时，投资者看重的是市场容量、资产稀缺性、资本增值还是稳定的现金流？第六街（Sixth Street）首席执行官艾伦·瓦克斯曼（Alan Waxman）认为这些要素缺一不可，同时更关键的在于球队所有者的企业文化、价值观以及明确的使命感。他特别提到，全球年轻一代沉迷于智能手机，AI 也在不断吞食大众的注意力，但高辨识度的全球体育品牌在向海外市场输出时，展现出了无可比拟的吸引力与增长空间，这正是 NFL 面临的巨大机遇。瓦克斯曼随即反客为主，向两位主持人发问：“如果是你们，你们会如何做 NFL 的投资底线评估（Underwrite）？” 杰森·凯利（Jason Kelly）坦言这是一道难题，但他强调国际化战略长期以来被严重低估，甚至连 NFL 自身过去也未充分意识到海外市场的潜能。他举例谈到自己数年前对杰克逊维尔美洲虎（Jacksonville Jaguars）及富勒姆足球俱乐部（Fulham F.C.）老板沙德·汗（Shad Khan）的报道，汗正是推动 NFL 举办伦敦赛的先驱之一。瓦克斯曼赞同地证实，国际市场对 NFL 的需求已处于“超额供给状态”，大量海外城市极度渴望承办比赛。 亚历克斯·罗德里格斯（Alex Rodriguez）则从房地产和治理角度给出了形象的剖析：他将 NFL 球队比喻为“全天下仅有 32 栋的海景顶豪房产，而你恰好拥有其中一栋”。这种同时兼具资产大幅升值与强劲现金流的商业护城河在体育界极为罕见，再加上国家级巨额转播版权协议的背书，资产质量堪称顶级的“A 类信用资产（A paper）”。此外，罗德里格斯极为看重领导力，盛赞联盟总裁罗杰·古德尔（Roger Goodell）业内顶尖，同时指出与新英格兰爱国者队的罗伯特·卡夫（Robert Kraft）及乔纳森·卡夫（Jonathan Kraft）家族合作，“就像结为连理的婚姻一样”，撇开财务数字不谈，找到靠谱的家族合伙人才是投资的核心。 - **国际市场缺口**：海外各大核心城市对引入 NFL 正式赛事的渴求程度远超目前的场次供给。 - **32 支特许席位护城河**：极高的准入门槛赋予 NFL 类似顶级海滨地产的垄断稀缺性。 - **全美转播合同驱动**：持续上涨的全国媒体版权费用为各队提供了极高的确定性与现金流托底。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: NFL Investment Evaluation Pillars accDescr: The four core pillars of Sixth Street's NFL investment thesis. subgraph Macro ["宏观价值与护城河"] A["稀缺性与垄断壁垒<br>（全美仅32个席位）"] B["双轮驱动财务回报<br>（强劲现金流 + 资产增值）"] end subgraph Growth ["增长杠杆与治理"] C["全球化海外扩张<br>（国际赛事超额需求）"] D["一流领导力与家族伙伴<br>（古德尔管理层 + 卡夫家族）"] end A --> E["NFL 投资底层逻辑"] B --> E C --> E D --> E ``` --- ### [12:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=769s) NBA 的演进之路：从疫情期的冷门致电到全球化浪潮 第六街在 NBA 领域的布局极具先见之明。五六年前，他们投资了圣安东尼奥马刺（San Antonio Spurs），成为 NBA 批准机构资本准入后第一批吃螃蟹的机构投资者之一；数年后，他们又参与入股了估值已大幅攀升的波士顿凯尔特人（Boston Celtics）。瓦克斯曼回顾道，当时正值联盟规则刚放宽，第六街的合伙人奥斯汀·鲍尔斯（Austin Bowers）甚至直接给马刺队管理层打去了“陌生拜访电话（Cold call）”。瓦克斯曼风趣地向现场观众分享心得：“不要害怕陌生拜访，保持真诚、多问好问题，你就会做得很好。” 当时正值新冠疫情肆虐的至暗时刻，迪士尼园区封闭比赛，现场门票收入归零或急剧下滑。罗德里格斯也回忆起自己在 2021 年入局森林狼时的情景，母亲甚至惊呼“你疯了吗？空荡荡的球场你千万别碰！”然而，正是这场危机让原本高不可攀的优质体育资产变得“可投资（Investible）”。瓦克斯曼指出，在私募市场中，再好的投资主题如果无法实操落地也是徒劳，而疫情倒逼了规则松绑与资本准入，促成了这一资产类别的“机构化升级（Gentrification）”。 时至今日，NBA 的竞争格局与资本充裕度已完全不同：巨额的新媒体转播协议正在重新定价球队估值，而联盟的国际化潜力更是不可限量。瓦克斯曼强调，只要一支球队拥有一名来自特定国家的明星球员，就能瞬间叩开该国庞大粉丝群体与商业赞助的大门。罗德里格斯补充指出，放眼当下的联盟，最近连续八届常规赛最有价值球员（MVP）均由非美国本土球员斩获，这充分证明 NBA 真正的全球化航海时代才刚刚拉开序幕。 - **率先入局马刺**：第六街是首批试水 NBA 的机构投资者，靠主动的 Cold call 开启了与马刺队的合作。 - **危机孕育转机**：疫情导致的收入骤降促使联盟允许机构资本进场，打通了私募股权入驻顶级体育 IP 的通道。 - **国际球员破圈效应**：外籍球星直接拉动海外本土市场的转播收视与商业变现，构建起 NBA 区别于其他北美联盟的全球化护城河。 --- ### [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=949s) 破局女子体育：对 Bay FC 与 NWSL 的不对称赔率豪赌 第六街在体育投资史上最具突破性的一役，是以控股股东身份创建美国国家女子足球联赛（NWSL）扩张球队 Bay FC。凯利提到，以往没有任何机构基金被允许成为美国主流职业体育球队的“控股所有者（Control owner）”，这一举动打破了行业惯例。瓦克斯曼直言：“从没有任何一笔投资像这笔交易一样，让外界所有人都觉得我们疯了；但在我们看来，这是我们做过赔率最诱人、最不对称的投资之一（Most asymmetric investments）。” 这笔交易的背景对比极其震撼：在 Bay FC 之前，NWSL 上一次的球队扩军加盟费仅为 300 万到 400 万美元，而第六街在两三年后直接掏出了 5300 万美元的创纪录加盟费。最初触动瓦克斯曼调研该领域的契机非常生活化——他看到自己当时年仅 9 岁的女儿正捧着 iPad 全神贯注地观看 NWSL 比赛；同时，拥有应用数学背景、“比我聪明得多”的妻子也敏锐觉察到其中的巨大商业前景，极力促使他推进调研。 第六街深入研究后发现了一个巨大的商业错配：当时女子体育赛事的绝大部分企业赞助费均来自“企业社会责任或社会影响力预算（Impact bucket）”，而非真正由市场驱动的“首席营销官预算（CMO bucket）”。只要受众收视率真实存在，赞助费用全面流向 CMO 商业预算将是必然趋势。这一逻辑促使瓦克斯曼打破自身从不在社交媒体发声的惯例，在职业生涯中首次将完整的投资立项报告公开于 LinkedIn。后续的市场走势彻底印证了其前瞻性：不久后，麦乐迪·霍布森（Mellody Hobson）组建丹佛扩军球队支付的加盟费据称是第六街的近四倍，而柳林（Willow Bay）牵头收购天使城 FC（Angel City FC）时，球队估值更已飙升至 2.5 亿美元。瓦克斯曼总结道，所有投资归根到底都是“供求关系”，即使是最优秀的投资主题，也必须时刻警惕资本过度过剩的风险。 - **创纪录的加盟门槛**：Bay FC 的 5300 万美元加盟费相较前期的 300 万至 400 万美元实现了数十倍的跳升，彻底重构了女子职业联盟的估值体系。 - **赞助资金池的范式转移**：促成投资的核心逻辑是赞助预算从公益性质的“企业影响力资金池”向追求商业回报的“CMO 市场营销资金池”质变。 - **后续估值爆发**：天使城 FC 估值达 2.5 亿美元，丹佛新军的准入门槛更是较 Bay FC 翻了数倍，验证了女子体育版权的高爆发力。 ### [19:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1149s) 稀缺资产与女子体育的估值爆发潜力 谈及资本供需与球队扩张，Alan Waxman 指出，如果市场上出现资本过剩而需求不足的情况，结果通常不会理想；然而顶尖体育资产的本质是“极度稀缺的资产”，就像核心地段不可再生的宝贵房地产一样，随着新扩张球队不断被售出，剩余的优质席位只会越来越少。Waxman 甚至在镜头前公开立下预测：无论是 Mellody Hobson 还是 Willow Bay（注：二人近期分别在女子体育与 NWSL 球队投资中担任领衔投资人），她们如今所支付的估值，在未来三到四年内看起来都会显得极其精明。 Waxman 笃定地表示，过不了几年人们就会对她们说，后来者的入场价格已经翻了整整四倍。主持人随之打趣道，大家最喜欢嘉宾在镜头前留下白纸黑字的预言，Waxman 笑着回应：“反正是电视直播，我们早就记录在案了。” - **稀缺性逻辑**：职业体育特许经营权属于典型的供给受限型资产，每增加一支扩张球队，未来可供入局的席位与核心市场就减少一份。 - **估值预测**：Waxman 明确预判，以 Mellody Hobson 和 Willow Bay 为代表的女子体育新资方所支付的估值，在 3 至 4 年内将被后续高出 4 倍（"four times more"）的成交价衬托得格外划算。 --- ### [19:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1193s) 机构资本未来能否完全控股“三大联盟”？ 话题随后延伸到更深层的资本架构问题。Sixth Street 是美国首家、也是目前唯一一家在职业体育俱乐部中担任控股合伙人（Control Partner）的私募股权投资机构。Alex Rodriguez 借此抛出一个极具前瞻性的宏大问题：在美国职业体育的“三大联盟”（MLB、NBA、NFL，共计 92 支球队）中，三位对话者有生之年是否会看到机构资本完全控股其中的某支球队？ Waxman 谨慎权衡后给出了肯定答复。他分析道，这一趋势的驱动力完全来自数学概率与经济现实：如果球队估值继续以现有轨道攀升，其背后必须依托数千亿美元的基础设施与周边地产投资；当单支球队的资产体量达到天文数字时，全球有能力独立出资全盘买下的超级富豪人数将极其有限。因此，联盟管理层最终将不得不向机构资本彻底打开大门。不过 Waxman 也不忘风趣地自我解嘲：虽然这在大家的有生之年必然发生，但在那一天真正到来之前还有很长的路要走；届时他自己恐怕早已从投资一线退休，正坐在哥斯达黎加的海滩上悠闲冲浪了。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 机构资本控股三大联盟球队的推演路径 accDescr: 展示基础设施投资推动估值攀升，最终迫使联盟向机构资本开放控股权的逻辑演进。 subgraph CapitalDrivers["驱动要素"] A["球队及周边地产需数千亿美元基建投资"] --> B["特许经营权估值突破天花板"] end subgraph OwnershipLimits["个人财力瓶颈"] B --> C["具备全额收购财力的超级富豪数量极度有限"] end subgraph InstitutionalShift["最终格局变迁"] C --> D["联盟规则逐步放宽"] D --> E["机构资本（如PE）在三大联盟取得完全控股权"] end ``` - **92 支核心资产**：北美三大联盟（MLB、NBA、NFL）合计由 92 支特许经营权球队构成，目前各大联盟对控股股东仍设有极严苛的个人出资比例限制。 - **估值推演**：支持数千亿美元的场馆与综合体开发，客观上导致资产体量超越单一家族或个人的承受上限，概率上必然导向完全机构化控股。 --- ### [21:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1282s) 30秒头脑风暴：如何拯救与重塑棒球？ 节目尾声，主持人 Jason Kelly 给 Alex Rodriguez 和 Alan Waxman 各留出 30 秒时间，让他们提出各自“拯救与重塑棒球”的核心方案： ``` 拯救棒球的两个维度：商业整合 vs. 薪酬制度重塑 ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── A-Rod (投资与媒体视角) Alan Waxman (资方与制度视角) • 逆向投资周期 (CBA谈判期入局) • 设立全联盟最低薪资保障底线 • 整合区域转播权 (模仿NFL模式) • 硬工资帽 + 1-2个“指定球员”特例 • 扩大工会内部普惠分配机制 • 媒体利益深度捆绑，挖掘海外市场 ``` Rodriguez 首先以反向投资人的视角切入。他认为，当前正是过去 15 年来投资棒球的最佳时机，因为劳资协议（CBA）谈判与潜在罢工阴云带来了巨大的不确定性，而“不确定性正是投资人最好的朋友”，目前的资产定价偏紧、下行风险已被充分消化。在商业运营上，他呼吁大联盟主席 Rob Manfred 效仿 NFL 总裁 Roger Goodell 的集权路径，将各个球队割裂的地方区域体育网络（RSN）转播版权收归联盟统一运营。他特别援引了当季世界大赛第七场的收视数据，证明只要拥有优质的对决、标志性球星与恰当的转播战略，包含美国、日本和加拿大在内的全球收视人数高达 5300 万人，充分展现了棒球的深厚底蕴。 Alan Waxman 则从制度设计角度抛出了一套大胆且颇具争议的方案。他主张引入硬工资帽（Salary Cap），但同时设定两个关键机制：第一，大幅提升全联盟底层球员的最低薪酬标准；第二，借鉴足球等赛事的“指定球员”（Designated Player）规则，允许每支球队拥有 1 到 2 名不受工资帽限制的超级巨星。这样一来，像大谷翔平（Shohei Ohtani）这样价值连城的顶尖球星可以拿到与其市场价值相符的天价薪酬（哪怕是一亿美元甚至十亿美元），既不打破联盟整体的竞技平衡，又能让巨星充分变现。此外，Waxman 强调必须在媒体版权上将各方利益紧密捆绑，告别内耗的零和博弈，共同把蛋糕做大并开拓尚未完全开发的广阔国际市场。 在节目收尾前，拥有近 25 年工会成员经历的 Rodriguez 迅速补充了劳工端的关键诉求：球员工会自身也必须推行更公平的分配模式，彻底改变目前“70% 到 80% 的收入流向顶层 10% 球员”的失衡现状，让联盟中广大普通球员都能获得应有的生活保障。三人随后在轻松融洽的气氛中结束了本次对话。 - **收视号召力证明**：包含美、日、加市场在内的世界大赛第七战收视人数达到 5300 万，凸显出国际化球星与优质赛事的变现潜能。 - **薪酬结构提案**：Waxman 建议引入“最低工资托底 + 工资帽 + 1至2个无限额指定球员”的混合薪酬架构，平衡竞争均势与巨星溢价。 - **工会利益失衡现状**：Rodriguez 强调棒球工会目前 70% 至 80% 的资金分配集中于顶层 10% 的大牌球员，必须推进“更具包容性、人人有饭吃”的分配机制改革。 ## Notable quotes > [00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=2s) 这在我们有生之年一定会发生。 — Alan Waxman > [02:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=142s) 你见过 Robert 和 Jonathan Kraft 吗？我觉得你们在文化上会非常合得来，你应该去见见他们。 — Joe Siclare > [02:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=142s) 这是一段长期合作关系，在寻找合伙人时，你最不想做的事情就是反复拉锯。大家心里都清楚什么是公允的，彼此只是在寻求公平。 — Alan Waxman > [07:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=478s) 无论你拥有的是控股权还是少数股权，用这种 5 到 7 年必须退出的资金去投职业体育球队，都是一个极其糟糕的主意（A terrible idea）。 — Alan Waxman > [09:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=587s) 全天下仅有 32 栋的海景顶豪房产，而你恰好拥有其中一栋 — Alex Rodriguez > [12:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=769s) 不要害怕陌生拜访，保持真诚、多问好问题，你就会做得很好。 — Alan Waxman > [12:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=769s) 你疯了吗？空荡荡的球场你千万别碰！ — Alex Rodriguez 的母亲 > [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=949s) 从没有任何一笔投资像这笔交易一样，让外界所有人都觉得我们疯了；但在我们看来，这是我们做过赔率最诱人、最不对称的投资之一（Most asymmetric investments）。 — Alan Waxman > [19:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1149s) 反正是电视直播，我们早就记录在案了。 — Alan Waxman > [21:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0&t=1282s) 不确定性正是投资人最好的朋友 — Alex Rodriguez ## Mentioned Sixth Street, Alan Waxman (艾伦·瓦克斯曼), Alex Rodriguez (亚历克斯·罗德里格斯 / A-Rod), Jason Kelly (杰森·凯利), New England Patriots (新英格兰爱国者队), Robert Kraft (罗伯特·卡夫), Jonathan Kraft (乔纳森·卡夫), Joe Siclare, Roger Goodell (罗杰·古德尔), Rob Manfred, Victor Wembanyama, Austin Bowers (奥斯汀·鲍尔斯), Mellody Hobson (麦乐迪·霍布森), Willow Bay (柳林), Shohei Ohtani (大谷翔平), Shad Khan (沙德·汗), NFL, NBA, MLB, NWSL, Bay FC, Angel City FC (天使城 FC), Real Madrid (皇家马德里), FC Barcelona (巴塞罗那), San Francisco Giants (旧金山巨人), San Antonio Spurs (圣安东尼奥马刺), Boston Celtics (波士顿凯尔特人), New York Yankees (纽约洋基队), Jacksonville Jaguars (杰克逊维尔美洲虎), Fulham F.C. (富勒姆足球俱乐部) ## Video description Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly talk with Sixth Street’s Alan Waxman about taking a stake in the New England Patriots, international growth opportunities in the NBA and why a historic NWSL expansion fee paid off. #Sports #Business #Podcast -------- Like this video? Subscribe: http://www.youtube.com/Bloomberg?sub_confirmation=1 Get unlimited access to Bloomberg.com for just $1.99 your first month: https://www.bloomberg.com/subscriptions?in_source=YoutubeOriginals Bloomberg Originals offers bold takes for curious minds on today’s biggest topics. Hosted by experts covering stories you haven’t seen and viewpoints you haven’t heard, you’ll discover cinematic, data-led shows that investigate the intersection of business and culture. Exploring every angle of climate change, technology, finance, sports and beyond, Bloomberg Originals is business as you’ve never seen it. Subscribe for business news, but not as you've known it: exclusive interviews, fascinating profiles, data-driven analysis, and the latest in tech innovation from around the world. Visit our partner channel Bloomberg News for global news and insight in an instant. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LfgJq-1j0)

[0:02] Alan Waxman: 这在我们有生之年一定会发生。 [2:22] Joe Siclare: 你见过 Robert 和 Jonathan Kraft 吗？我觉得你们在文化上会非常合得来，你应该去见见他们。 [2:22] Alan Waxman: 这是一段长期合作关系，在寻找合伙人时，你最不想做的事情就是反复拉锯。大家心里都清楚什么是公允的，彼此只是在寻求公平。 [7:58] Alan Waxman: 无论你拥有的是控股权还是少数股权，用这种 5 到 7 年必须退出的资金去投职业体育球队，都是一个极其糟糕的主意（A terrible idea）。 [9:47] Alex Rodriguez: 全天下仅有 32 栋的海景顶豪房产，而你恰好拥有其中一栋 [12:49] Alan Waxman: 不要害怕陌生拜访，保持真诚、多问好问题，你就会做得很好。 [12:49] Alex Rodriguez 的母亲: 你疯了吗？空荡荡的球场你千万别碰！ [15:49] Alan Waxman: 从没有任何一笔投资像这笔交易一样，让外界所有人都觉得我们疯了；但在我们看来，这是我们做过赔率最诱人、最不对称的投资之一（Most asymmetric investments）。 [19:09] Alan Waxman: 反正是电视直播，我们早就记录在案了。 [21:22] Alex Rodriguez: 不确定性正是投资人最好的朋友

[5:48] Alex Rodriguez: Think about if you're in real estate and there's only 32 beachfront properties and you own one of 'em... The combination of appreciation and cash flow is very rare in sports. [1:16] Alan Waxman: The NFL ran this big process. Some might say it was a proctology exam... After we got approved, the CFO of the NFL, Joe Siclare... sent me an email: 'Hey, have you ever met Robert or Jonathan Kraft? I think you culturally would get along with them.'

[0:02] MLB, NBA, NFL. [0:04] Do you think in our lifetime, the three of us, [0:07] there will ever be institutional capital [0:09] that takes full control of one of those 92 teams [0:12] Within those three leagues? [0:14] It will happen in our lifetime, [0:15] but there needs to be substantial infrastructure [0:18] and real estate adjacency to justify these valuations. [0:22] Otherwise, these valuations are gonna turn out [0:24] to be probably too high. [0:32] Alright, Alex, we're back at Bloomberg Invest, [0:34] massive conversation on stage, live taping of The Deal [0:37] with Alan Waxman, co-founder, CEO of Sixth Street Partners. [0:41] They own across lots of sports, [0:43] but I know there's one deal you're especially interested in. [0:46] I am, and that's his acquisition of a minority stake [0:49] of the New England Patriots. [0:50] And I wanna know how he cracked a code with Robert [0:54] and Jonathan Kraft, who are in Mount [0:55] Rushmore of my ownership groups. [0:57] He's also done deals across soccer, basketball, [1:01] and baseball. [1:02] So I have a prediction. You guys are gonna fix baseball. [1:05] - Okay, let's go. - All right, let's do it. [1:08] Please welcome to the stage Alan Waxman for a live taping [1:12] of The Deal with Bloomberg's Jason Kelly [1:14] and Alex Rodriguez. [1:16] Alan Waxman, great to see you. [1:18] I wanna set the table a little bit [1:20] and talk about sixth Street, your firm, [1:22] because I think it's hard to understand, Alex, the context [1:27] of what you're doing in sports without understanding the [1:29] context of the firm and, [1:31] and even some of what's going on in the world right now. [1:33] So, 30 seconds, give [1:36] or take, what's the sixth street investing ethos? [1:41] - Complete flexibility. [1:43] We invest across, from day one, built the firm [1:46] to invest across asset classes, geographies, sectors. [1:50] Where's the best relative risk-reward? [1:52] And we do that by having a team [1:55] and a culture of people who that are over themselves. [1:58] No egos, no bs, no politics, no fiefdoms. [2:02] We built our architecture [2:03] to be an investor first architecture. [2:05] So we didn't build it to raise the bigger and biggest funds. [2:08] We raised smaller strategy funds so [2:10] that we raise those funds to the size of the opportunity. [2:13] And then we have extensive capabilities [2:15] and that's how we built our firm from day one. [2:17] That allows us to look across ecosystems [2:19] and to find the best themes and the best opportunities. [2:22] - Wax, you were one of the early, early movers in sports [2:24] and you saw this early, you made [2:26] that early acquisition getting into San Antonio Spurs [2:29] right after COVID. [2:31] But as a co-owner today, I have my Mount Rushmore of owners [2:36] and two that sit right on top of that list are Robert [2:39] and Jonathan Kraft. [2:40] I am fascinated by this deal. How did it start? [2:43] Do you call Robert? Does Jonathan call [2:44] you? Walk us through it. [2:46] - First of all, I, I spoke to Robert and Jonathan [2:49] before this and they speak so highly of Alex, [2:53] so you've got some big fans there. Thank you. [2:55] - My name didn't come up just for the record, but go on. [2:59] - So, by the way, Jason's super talented too. Yeah, [3:02] - Thank you. I really [3:02] - Appreciate that. [3:03] I talked to a lot of people before this, so they, [3:04] they said we're super talented too. [3:06] Look, this all starts. So we went through just context. [3:09] The NFL didn't allow private equity or private capital [3:14] 'cause we don't really think of ourself [3:15] as a private equity firm, [3:17] but they didn't allow institutional investors. [3:19] So the NFL ran this big process. [3:21] Some might say it was a proctology exam, [3:24] and you go through a process where they're trying to select, [3:27] you know, 2, 3, 4 people that have sort of a golden key [3:31] to invest in the NFL. [3:32] But coming outta that process, the CFO, [3:35] I don't think I've ever told this story publicly, [3:37] but the CFO of the NFL Joe Siclare is, [3:40] after we got approved, basically sent me an email. [3:43] He said, Hey, you know, [3:44] and he was kind of the front lines [3:46] of their due diligence on us and others. [3:48] And he said, Hey, have you ever met Robert or Jonathan Kraft? [3:51] I think you culturally would get along [3:54] with him, you should meet them. [3:56] And they weren't, you know, looking to do, you know, [3:58] minority equity investment. [4:00] So he connected us. [4:02] We got together, and I'm summarizing this, [4:05] but literally instantaneously it almost felt like family [4:10] where we had alignment on team values, team culture [4:14] and clarity of purpose, which obviously you see the results [4:17] of what the New England Patriots have done, [4:19] but what you don't see is all the little things, [4:21] those micro things they did in terms [4:22] of running the organization. [4:24] And we just clicked right away. [4:26] And that's by the way, consistent. [4:28] When you look at all the other sports teams we've invested [4:31] in, they're all global champions, [4:32] Real Madrid, Barcelona, [4:35] San Francisco Giants, San Antonio Spurs, Boston Celtics. [4:39] Like there's a, there's a, there's a theme here, [4:41] but the one common denominator between all [4:44] of 'em is alignment on culture, [4:46] values and clarity of purpose. I [4:48] - Have a quick follow up on that for you Wax. [4:50] So once you get through all the hugging and family [4:52] and alignment, alignment [4:54] and pricing, does that, do they say nine? [4:56] Do you say six? Do they, does it go back and forth [4:58] or is that more, here's what we're looking [5:00] for. You. You agree [5:02] - The, the way that we do business [5:04] and the way that I, [5:05] I think the Krafts do business both Robert Jonathan, [5:08] is this is a long-term relationship [5:10] and the last thing you wanna do in getting a [5:12] partner is a back and forth. [5:13] It's, it's, you kind of know what's fair [5:16] and you're just trying to solve for fairness. [5:19] And it was a very short conversation and we agreed on it [5:23] and we got in business together. [5:24] But you can just tell, by the way, it's not just sports. [5:26] It's any company we invest in. [5:28] You can get a sense when you're in the meeting, [5:30] you're watching the way they treat their employees, [5:32] the way they treat junior people. [5:34] You know, you talk to different people in the company [5:36] or the teams, are they all seeing the same things? [5:38] Are they seeing seven different things? [5:40] And you can tell by just meeting everyone [5:42] what those culture, what that culture is, [5:44] what the values are, [5:46] and obviously do they have clarity of purpose. [5:48] - And so let's talk about investing in the NFL [5:50] because you, [5:52] you rightly pointed out this was a long process. [5:54] The NFL was really the last of the, [5:57] the major North American leagues and, [6:00] and almost any league in the world [6:01] to really embrace institutional capital. [6:04] But what was it about this particular [6:07] deal financially? [6:09] And, and as you figured out how to underwrite this [6:14] and did the diligence, what was it about this franchise [6:17] and this sport that made it a compelling investment [6:19] as a minority shareholder? [6:23] No rights. I mean, this, this is, you're, you're in it, [6:26] but they're running it. [6:28] - Look, the first thing is like, [6:29] what's the durability of the league? [6:31] What's the leadership of the league? They're A plus. [6:33] Like, all you have to do is spend time with Roger. [6:35] - Roger - Goodell. Yeah, I mean he, sorry, Roger Goodell. [6:38] I mean he's, and the people below him, the owner there, [6:41] it's, it's a world class organization. [6:44] Then you get into sort of the market, you know, the, [6:47] the Boston sports market. [6:48] We're also the Boston Celtics. [6:50] Like, it's a great sports market. It's a great fan base. [6:53] And look, I think with all these you [6:55] - Are in New York, just, just as a reminder, [6:57] New York's a great.. [6:58] - Red Sox Are next. By the way, [6:59] - We're, by the way, we're partners [7:01] with the New York Yankees [7:02] and they're, they're great fan base too. [7:03] It's not exclusive. Everyone's got their own cultures. [7:06] But look, I think at the end of the day, like for us, like [7:11] the league itself, the durability of the league, [7:15] the international expansion opportunities, the fact [7:18] that just all these brands historically, [7:21] if you go back 20 years ago, [7:22] these brands were a local brands, you have [7:25] to get the local right? [7:26] But once you have the local, right, the global opportunity [7:30] for all these brands, like take Wemby, [7:32] like we're investing in the San Antonio Spurs. [7:34] I went last year when they were playing in Paris, [7:36] it was literally like an NBA Finals game. [7:38] So you just turned on an entire country [7:41] and that's happening all over the place [7:43] and the NFL, those opportunities, [7:45] the international opportunities of the same. [7:47] So look, for us it was pretty easy. [7:50] But again, this wasn't a competitive process. [7:52] It was a handshake, it was a set of relationships. [7:54] And that's how almost all [7:55] of our deals have happened in the sports ecosystem. [7:58] - How do you think private equity, private capital [8:01] has performed so far? [8:03] What has it been about what you thought it would be in terms [8:06] of the uptake from the teams, the uptake from the funds? [8:10] Like where is it now? Where does it go next? [8:13] - I think it's happened about kind of [8:15] what we'd expect. [8:17] - Because it's been fairly minimal. [8:19] - Yeah, I, I think about what, what we, [8:21] what we would expect. [8:22] I think the challenge is, [8:23] and this is why I think there's an important delineation [8:27] between private equity and private capital. [8:30] - Yeah. - Because a lot of private equity capital, [8:33] the liability [8:35] or the fund structures, you have [8:36] to sell the asset in five to seven years. [8:39] That is a terrible, that is a terrible idea [8:43] for investing in sports team. [8:45] Whether it's a control or minority. [8:47] So our, our vehicle, we have very patient capital, [8:50] which is why I think there's a, that really matters. [8:53] You know, a lot of these guys own these teams. [8:54] They don't, they don't, they don't have to sell, like, [8:57] they don't have to do anything. [8:58] And some of them just want good, good partners. [9:00] So it's kind of happened what I expect, [9:02] I would expect over time, if valuations continue to increase, [9:07] it's just gonna continue to grow. [9:09] But, and this is really, I think the next wave [9:11] of sports is there needs to be a substantial infrastructure [9:16] and real estate adjacency investment [9:19] to justify these valuations. [9:20] Otherwise these valuations are gonna turn out to be in a lot [9:23] of cases, not all cases, probably too high. [9:27] - I got one more on the NFL just [9:28] 'cause it's such a juggernaut. Do you wanna go first? [9:30] - No. - Okay. [9:31] - I, I wouldn't. - I love when you guys flow. [9:33] Yeah. I love when you guys flow. [9:35] - We're like a married couple. Okay. Anyways, Wax. [9:37] When you think about the NFL as such a juggernaut [9:41] and when you look at just P and L [9:43] and you dig down into just the thesis [9:45] of an investment, right? [9:47] Is it, when you look at an NFL team, is it the market? [9:50] Is it scarcity, appreciation, cash flow? [9:53] What are the things that excites you on sixth Street [9:54] about deploying capital in [9:55] - Football? [9:56] I think it's, it's all those things. There's, it's scarcity. [9:59] Obviously different markets matter. [10:02] Ownership, culture values, clarity of purpose that matters. [10:06] But again, you know, it doesn't take a long time. [10:09] If you look at every youth in the world, [10:12] everyone's picking up their phone all the time. [10:13] AI is just gonna continue to consume people's time. [10:17] And I think the other thing is that the sort of exporting [10:22] of sports, particularly global brands into other markets is [10:26] gonna continue to increase. [10:27] And I think, again, I think that's an [10:28] opportunity for the NFL. [10:30] - It's interesting to, to think about your.. [10:32] - Can I ask you guys [10:33] a question? - Sure. [10:34] What do you guys think? - Jason will take any question. [10:36] - Flip, flip that question, flip that question around. [10:38] What, how would you guys, [10:39] you guys talked to a lot of smart people. [10:41] How would you guys answer that [10:42] - Underwriting the NFL? [10:43] - Yeah, - I, I mean it, I'll answer [10:46] because you prodded me into it. [10:49] It's really hard to do. I mean, I think the, [10:52] the point you made about the international opportunity, [10:55] I think is one that was underappreciated for a long time [10:58] with the NFL and I think even the NFL didn't quite fully [11:02] appreciate what the market was. [11:04] And I think as it's invested more [11:07] and more, you know, I did a piece about Shad Khan [11:10] of the Jaguars and, and Fulham F.C. a few years ago. [11:15] And understanding through his eyes, [11:17] he was obviously a pioneer with the London based games. [11:21] I think that international piece, [11:23] I mean I know you've spent a lot of time [11:25] with Roger Goodell and others. [11:26] I mean that, that seems [11:27] to be the real growth market in terms of both fans and, [11:31] and really the technology as such. [11:34] And I think you, and we'll talk about this I think in the [11:36] NBA section too, the, [11:39] if you can truly globalize American football, [11:44] I mean, good lord, [11:46] - Here's what I can tell you with fact. [11:49] There's excess demand [11:51] for sports teams internationally in sports in cities that [11:56] want to bring NFL games to their markets. [11:59] - Yeah. So not to dodge your question. [12:01] So it's kind of the things that I talked about [12:03] that I really like about the NFL is the market's very [12:05] important, the scarcity. [12:07] Now think about if you're in real estate [12:08] and there's only 32 beachfront [12:10] properties and you own one of 'em. [12:11] So I would think about that. The combination [12:13] of appreciation and cash flow. [12:16] It's very rare in sports. [12:18] And to have that like a moat [12:19] that you can actually underwrite it [12:20] and it's like A paper as A paper can get. [12:23] 'cause obviously the national TV deal, [12:24] that's gonna get probably richer here. [12:26] And then I would say I would over index in leadership [12:28] and I think Roger Goodell is best in class, as good [12:30] as they get, as far as commissioner. [12:32] And then when you have a guy like Robert Kraft [12:34] and Jonathan that makes it, [12:36] 'cause at the end of the days, forget what the numbers say, [12:38] you still have to be in partners [12:40] with families like a marriage. [12:41] And that's how I look at it. [12:43] - A hundred, a hundred percent. And I'd say across the NFL, [12:45] there's some great owners across the NFL. [12:48] - All right. You wanna talk some hoop? [12:49] - Sure. - All right. The, the NBA is interesting [12:52] and you have such a fascinating lens here, Wax, [12:54] because you went into the Spurs six years ago. [12:57] 5, 5, 6 years, five and change, yeah. Five and change. [13:00] And then you go into the Celtics, you know, a number [13:02] of years later, the valuation differential alone [13:05] is massive. [13:06] How did the opportunity evolve? [13:08] How did it change, as you've sort [13:10] of seen the NBA five six years ago [13:12] and the NBA today from a business perspective? [13:15] - From an institutional investor standpoint? Yeah. [13:17] Well first of all, we were one of the first, [13:19] I think we're the first or the second institutional investor [13:21] in the NBA where, you know, the San Antonio Spurs, [13:24] we just literally, they changed rules [13:26] and we cold, cold called the San Antonio Spurs. [13:28] So it was, you literally [13:29] - Just picked up the phone, and you're like RC Buford, like, [13:31] you know, like what's up [13:32] bro? [13:33] To be fair, it's my colleague Austin Bowers picked up the [13:35] phone and that's what we do. [13:37] Like we just picked up the phone, I grew up in Austin, [13:39] so we had a view on Austin, San Antonio view, [13:41] but that was different. [13:43] - All these people are like, Ooh, [13:44] cold calling, okay, I'm gonna do that. Go ahead. [13:46] - Don't be afraid. Just be really a real person [13:49] and just ask good questions. [13:51] You'll be fine. [13:53] Sorry that, that was unsolicited advice. [13:56] So whoever was talking in the audience. [13:59] So look, I think back then, I mean [14:00] that was the middle of COVID. [14:01] So very different environment. [14:03] I mean these, you know, revenue had gone to a zero for a lot [14:06] of, for a lot of these teams were significantly reduced. [14:08] So very different environment. [14:10] It's, I would say it's maturing. [14:11] There's more people that are obviously getting into it. [14:13] So it's, I'd say that the competitive landscape is different [14:18] so that that's different. But on the other hand, [14:20] - Competitive landscape from an investor perspective, [14:22] - From there's just more capital, which is a good thing. [14:24] This, there's the gentrification of the asset class. [14:26] Like we, we were always interested in investing in sports. [14:28] It's themes are only as good if it's investible. [14:31] Maybe in public market, [14:32] in public markets you can express a theme, [14:34] but private markets, [14:35] you could have the best theme in the world, [14:37] but if it's not investible then it's a waste of time. [14:39] And COVID made it investible. [14:41] So that really opened it up and started to gentrify. [14:44] Today it's very different. [14:46] First of all, we're at the beginning of a new media deal, [14:48] so there's massive reraise so that's different. [14:51] There's also a lot more capital. [14:53] But again, [14:54] the international opportunity in the NBA, it's massive. [14:57] You look at the demographics, you look at the number [15:00] of NBA players that are from different countries [15:03] and again, it takes one player on one team from one country [15:06] to come open up that country and open up that country. [15:10] In terms of possible engagement of new, you know, fans. [15:14] - Was that similar to you? [15:16] Is that what you guys saw in 21? [15:19] - Yeah, we we came in around the same time. [15:20] Right after COVID, which was [15:21] a very scary time. [15:22] I remember my mom saying, what are you doing? [15:25] Like you have the Disney bubble, these stadiums are, [15:26] you're gonna go crazy, you shouldn't uh do this. [15:29] I said, mom, I think I'm okay. [15:30] She made me think a little bit. But what's exciting about [15:32] the NBA as we saw it, like as you look at [15:34] where we are today in 2026, [15:36] the last eight MVPs have been non-Americans. [15:38] And then when you think about the global footprint [15:40] that Wax is talking about and the opportunity, [15:42] I think we're really in the early innings of what, [15:44] what we're gonna go as the NBA. [15:46] So it's very exciting. [15:48] - It's interesting as we think back over the, [15:50] let's just make it about us for a second. [15:52] As we think back over the course of this show's history, one [15:55] of our earliest guests was Brandi Chastain, you know, one [15:57] of your co-owners in Bay F.C. [16:01] And what was so interesting for us who followed this [16:04] so closely as a business, your investment in Bay F.C. [16:08] an expansion team at the time, was radical and new [16:12] because you were the first institutional fund [16:15] that was allowed to become a control owner [16:18] of a major US sports team. [16:20] Tell us a little bit about that deal [16:22] from your point of view, we sort of heard [16:23] the Brandi perspective, you know, sort of coming in [16:25] as a player, but this is, this is new territory at [16:28] that time for a fund. [16:31] - Never have we made an investment [16:33] where people thought we were crazy, [16:35] but from our standpoint, it was one [16:37] of the most asymmetric investments we've ever made. [16:40] So just for context, the original, the last expansion fee [16:44] before we bought Bay F.C. was I think 3 or $4 million. [16:49] And we paid $53 million, two or three years later. [16:53] So people thought we were crazy. [16:55] But what got us on the NWSL initially is my, [16:59] at the time nine-year-old daughter, she was on her iPad [17:02] and she, she was watching an NWSL game [17:05] and I was like, huh, that's, that's kind of interesting. [17:09] So look through prodding, you know, through [17:14] a number of people around the ecosystem, [17:15] like you should take a look at this. [17:16] So, and I'm summarizing, there's a lot, there's a lot. [17:20] My wife was involved so she was prodding me [17:23] 'cause she thought this was a great investment opportunity. [17:25] She's much smarter than I am, by the way, [17:26] applied mathematics major. [17:27] But we started studying it and we looked at the market [17:31] and at the time, like a lot of the, a lot of the, [17:35] the sponsorship revenue was in sort of the impact bucket. [17:38] It wasn't in the CMO bucket, [17:40] so the chief marketing officer versus the impact bucket. [17:43] And that was just a major, major opportunity for us [17:47] because we knew people were watching. [17:50] And it's actually the only time in my entire investment [17:53] career where I actually printed our investment thesis. [17:56] I put it out there publicly, it's the first time [17:58] and only time we've ever done that [18:00] because I thought it was so asymmetric. [18:02] - You can find it on LinkedIn. I mean it [18:03] was a very popular LinkedIn post. [18:05] And I'm not a big social media, [18:07] I don't even have social media, but we put it out there [18:09] because we thought just for people to understand. [18:12] And sure enough, you know, now everyone's talking about it [18:15] and we're, we're still at the early stages, [18:17] but again, it's not gonna be linear, the growth, [18:20] but it's, it's been a good investment for us. [18:22] - Well, and and to be clear, I mean if you think about [18:26] where the valuations have gone, [18:28] where the expansion fees have gone, you know, [18:30] literally a year ago we were sitting on the equivalent [18:33] of the stage, I think we were actually downstairs [18:35] with Mellody Hobson. [18:36] She paid substantially more [18:38] for the Denver expansion franchise, I think four times more [18:44] than you did to build in Denver. [18:46] And obviously Willow Bay, who's been a guest on the show [18:49] as well, you know, [18:51] she bought Angel City at a valuation of $250 million. [18:54] So clearly it's going up. [18:57] - It goes to anything ultimately investing is about [19:00] supply and demand. [19:02] Like it could be the best theme in the world. [19:04] But if there's excess supply of capital, by the way, [19:08] this might rhyme with private credit, [19:09] excess supply capital and low demand, [19:12] low demand, that's not gonna work out well. The thing, [19:15] going back to what you said Alex, [19:17] is these are scarce assets. [19:19] So there's valuable pieces of real estate [19:22] and as you start to sell expansion teams, there's less [19:24] and less valuable real estate. [19:26] And what I can tell you, and I'm go on the record here, is [19:29] that what Mellody [19:31] and Willow who are both two incredibly talented people, [19:35] they're gonna look very smart in about three [19:37] or four years and what they paid. [19:39] And you'll be having the same conversation to them people [19:41] to Mellody and Willow [19:43] and you're gonna be saying people paid four times more, [19:45] - Right? [19:46] - That's my predict, I'm going on the record on that. [19:48] - Oh, I like when you're on the record. Yeah, now we got it. [19:49] - I guess we're live [19:50] TV so I guess we're already on the record. So there you go. [19:53] - I'm following up a little bit on what Jason said, [19:54] which I'm fascinated by this. [19:57] Like you, like Jason said, you're the first [19:59] private institution called it private [20:01] equity institution of money. There's a control partner. [20:03] - I think we're the only one, the only one in the US. [20:05] - My question is on the big three. [20:07] - Yeah. - MLB, NBA, NFL, do you think in our lifetime, [20:12] the three of us, there will ever be institutional capital [20:15] that takes full control of one of those 92 teams? [20:18] - I gotta be careful here, [20:19] but I, I'm gonna say within those three leagues, [20:24] it will happen in our lifetime for the simple reason [20:27] that if valuations continue to go up. [20:30] Which in order for that to happen, there needs [20:32] to be hundreds of billions of dollars of infrastructure [20:36] and real estate investment to make that happen. [20:39] Just the size of these valuations is gonna get to a point [20:43] where it's, there's only gonna be a finite [20:44] number of individuals. [20:46] So again, there's no certainties [20:48] but probabilistically, if you sort of play that through, [20:51] you know, I think the leagues will look at it, [20:53] will it happen in our lifetime? [20:55] I think anything can happen in our lifetime. [20:57] So I'm gonna say especially we're gonna live a long time, [20:59] hopefully knock on wood or something. [21:01] But no, we're, I think it'll happen in our lifetime. [21:05] But yet just if any of the commissioners [21:07] of those three leagues are looking for, [21:09] I don't think it'll be probably why I'm, you know, [21:12] probably a long time from from [21:13] now. That's what I would say. You'll [21:14] - Be mostly surfing and not investing. [21:17] I'm hoping I'm just surfing and not that, yeah, exactly. [21:20] - Costa Rica. - Yeah, there you go. All right. [21:22] You each have 30 seconds to tell me [21:24] how we're gonna fix baseball. Go Alex. [21:26] - Oh boy, we're here 30 seconds. It's a lot of pressure. [21:29] So I would say I'm a contrarian. [21:30] So I think the best time that I've seen in the last 15 years [21:33] to invest in baseball is today [21:34] because the amount of uncertainty, uncertainty [21:37] around the CBA, are they gonna strike or not? [21:39] I love that for an investor, [21:41] the bet you're gonna make is gonna get better, not worse [21:43] because right now it's pretty, you know, tight. [21:45] And then the other one is that Rob Manfred is gonna [21:48] integrate all the regional rights into one [21:50] and try to copy what Roger Goodell's done with the NFL [21:53] because the World Series showed us [21:54] that if you have the right product, [21:56] you have the right teams, you have the right stars, [21:58] the right strategy, and good baseball. [21:59] We had 53 million people watch the World Series Game seven [22:02] when you include the US market, Japan and Canada. [22:05] And it was one of the best I've ever seen. [22:08] - 30 seconds. I'll throw it out there. [22:10] I'm probably gonna get some slack for this, [22:12] but I'm gonna throw out a straw man on just real quick. [22:14] Okay, so first of all, [22:17] you gotta get the minimum standards up, [22:18] minimum salary across the league. [22:20] I think you gotta do that. [22:21] And this is gonna be a little controversial, [22:24] but I think that each team, [22:26] I think you should have a salary cap [22:28] that each team should have one [22:31] or two designated players that can pay whatever they want. [22:34] So if you wanna pay someone a billion [22:35] dollars, they're worth a billion. [22:36] Shohei Ohtani worth a billion dollars, you can pay 'em. [22:38] So you get 1, 2, 3, something that doesn't upset [22:42] the competitive balance [22:44] but allows teams for these superstars [22:47] to make what they earn. [22:48] And you put all that together [22:50] and then you get people like on the TV deal [22:53] and media rights aligning interest. [22:55] So they're trying to grow the pie together [22:57] because again, there's a, [22:59] another an international investment opportunity in baseball [23:03] and they've done a good job, but there's, [23:04] there's a lot more fruit out there. [23:06] So I think getting away from the zero sum game [23:08] and trying to align interest, that would be, [23:11] that would be my controversial what's, I'll have 20 [23:13] - And I, I jump on one 'cause we run outta [23:15] time really quickly. [23:16] I would say that from a union perspective, being a member of [23:19] that union for almost 25 years, I think you want a union [23:22] that, you know, 70%, 80% of the revenue doesn't go [23:26] to 10% of the players. [23:27] But having a more democratic [23:28] where everybody gets gets to eat a little bit. [23:31] - Totally. All right. It's all happening. Baseball's packed. [23:33] Thank you Alan Waxman. This is really fun. [23:35] Thank you so much. Thank you everyone. Thanks.