Trinny Woodall Builds $63 Million Beauty Brand After Rejection

屡遭拒绝后，Trinny Woodall打造出6300万美元美妆品牌 Trinny London拒绝了风投机构对快速获客的要求，转而专注于60%客户留存率的模式，实现了超5000万英镑的营收。 Trinny Woodall回顾了自己的人生历程：从16岁沾染毒品、深陷重度成瘾，到通过康复戒毒彻底清醒，再到在电视和媒体界开创辉煌的事业。她坦诚倾诉了经历的个人悲剧，包括痛失三位挚友以及前夫自杀身亡的痛楚，这使她在着手创业的同时成为了一名单亲母亲。Trinny详细讲述了自己如何顶住投资人的年龄歧视与屡屡拒绝，卖掉房产来资助自己的愿景，并依托客户留存和个性化配方，将Trinny London打造成营收超5000万英镑的全球美妆品牌。对话还深入探讨了野心的心理机制、“金牌抑郁”的陷阱以及实用的护肤理念。 Trinny Woodall 在26岁左右彻底戒毒，成为她人生的关键转折点。她曾通过变卖个人财产支付了5个月的戒毒康复期，并在中途宿舍生活7个月，而当年与她一同约定戒毒的三位好友则在两年内不幸全部离世。 (3:44) 直面患有严重止痛药成瘾并在其50岁时自杀身亡的前夫，Trinny 深刻体会到沉溺于内疚或“如果当初”的假设会阻碍真正的疗愈，唯有停止与既成创伤抗争才能逐步走出悲痛。 (18:26) Trinny 在53岁时顶住外界对年龄与女性电商的偏见创立 Trinny London，在历经48次路演拒绝并发送300封冷邮件后才获得首笔投资；为了不留后路地践行愿景，她甚至变卖个人衣物筹集6万英镑种子资金，并最终卖掉了精心翻修的住宅。 (32:32) Trinny 坚决抵制风投机构盲目追求高获客的激进建议，坚持建立以60%客户留存率和有机口碑为核心的可持续模式；面对资方习惯质问女性创始人“如何防范下行风险”的偏见，她主动将沟通转向如何系统性捕捉巨大的市场增长空间。 (39:09)

In an interview with Steven Bartlett, entrepreneur and presenter Trinny Woodall details how surviving personal crises, addiction, and late-career investor rejection shaped her approach to building her cosmetics enterprise, Trinny London. Woodall contends that long-term commercial success stems from deep consumer empathy, high customer retention, and continuous forward momentum rather than chasing rapid, advertising-fueled growth. Surviving Addiction, Loss, and Forging Identity (3:44) Woodall attributes her personal resilience to overcoming severe substance addiction in her twenties. Following a relapse after an initial, punitive rehab experience, she entered a five-month treatment program funded by selling personal belongings, followed by seven months in a halfway house living on £8 to £10 a week. A mutual pact with three friends led her to commit to sobriety, but within two years all three friends had died, cementing Woodall's permanent commitment to recovery. Personal tragedy recurred at age 50 when her former husband Johnny—who struggled with painkiller addiction and undiagnosed PTSD—died by suicide. Woodall spent years operating on autopilot to manage the resulting financial and administrative fallout while raising her daughter. She emphasizes that moving through grief required abandoning counterfactual 'what-ifs' and conspiracy theories, noting that true healing demands confronting painful realities directly. Overcoming Institutional Skepticism and Gender Bias (32:32) Launching Trinny London at age 53 challenged prevailing industry assumptions regarding age and gender. Potential investors repeatedly rejected her portable, cream-based makeup concept for women over 35, sending 48 direct pitch rejections across 300 cold emails. Investors questioned her social media follower count—then around 50,000—and claimed older demographics would not purchase beauty products online, despite data indicating 26% of people were already buying beauty items digitally. Woodall also encountered systematic gender biases in investor meetings. She observed that male panels frequently grilled female founders on downside risk mitigation, while prompting male founders to highlight upside potential. To bypass skepticism, Woodall shifted her presentations to structured, sequential arguments emphasizing upside capture. To finance initial operations, she liquidated her personal wardrobe across two sales to generate £60,000 and ultimately sold her renovated family home to ensure sufficient seed capital. Prioritizing Retention Over Acquisition in E-Commerce (39:09) Woodall resisted venture capital pressures to follow standard direct-to-consumer playbooks that prioritized high-churn customer acquisition—often structured around 70% new customers and 30% retention. Drawing comparisons to fragile hyper-growth models, she argued that businesses relying on paid ad spend over genuine customer love are built on 'quicksand.' Instead, she anchored Trinny London to a model targeting 60% retention and 40% growth, leveraging proprietary diagnostic tools (Match2Me) and organic word-of-mouth. This operational strategy generated over 100% year-over-year revenue growth across a five-year span, culminating in over £50 million in annual revenue distributed across 180 countries. A major growth catalyst was the introduction of an in-house formulated skincare line, which grew to account for 38% of overall sales and delivered the company's highest customer retention rates. The UK represents roughly 50% of the brand's market, with Australia and the United States accounting for 23% and 10%, respectively. Scaling Operations and Redefining Personal Success (49:48) Woodall rejects conventional notions of retirement, setting an explicit target to expand her core community from 1 million to 15 million women globally. However, maintaining continuous growth required restructuring her workload. After discovering her annual operational, board, and investor commitments totaled more than 365 working days, she initiated steps to delegate operational duties to corporate leadership, freeing mental capacity for creative innovation and guided meditation. Both Woodall and Bartlett explore the psychology of high achievement, drawing parallels to 'gold medal depression,' wherein reaching a terminal goal triggers psychological decline. For Woodall, personal equilibrium is maintained not through static comfort, but through constant forward progression, creative autonomy, and authentic engagement with her community. While Woodall demonstrates how personal hardship and customer-centric retention can build a highly profitable global brand in midlife, she acknowledges that maintaining high operational intensity complicates peer relationships and personal balance as she approaches 60, necessitating deliberate delegation to sustain the enterprise's long-term targets.

时尚美妆企业家Trinny Woodall在专访中讲述了自己从重度药物成瘾与家庭变故中复原，并在53岁打破年龄与性别偏见、打造年营收超5000万英镑商业帝国的历程。她认为企业的长青基石在于极高的客户留存率与真诚的社群信任，而非依赖烧钱买量催生的短期增长泡沫。 早期成瘾戒断与内在认同的重构 (3:44) Trinny回顾了自己从16岁尝试毒品到22岁陷入重度成瘾的堕落轨迹。为支付五个月的全封闭戒毒治疗，她变卖了全部个人物品；完成治疗后，她在韦斯顿萨珀迈尔的过渡救济所生活了七个月，每周仅靠8至10英镑维生并在养老院看护老人。当初与她在深夜一同立誓戒毒的三位密友在随后的两年内相继离世，这一惨痛代价彻底坚定了她终身不再沾染毒品的意志。在此期间，她曾在伦敦金融城从事大宗商品交易，作为交易大厅64名男性中唯一的女性，她通过穿着宽大男士西装和刻意压低声音来伪装自己。她认为所谓的“冒充者综合征”本质上是内心极度迷失与外在光鲜人设产生巨大裂痕时的撕裂感。对此，她的建议是通过持续学习专业知识来填补不安全感，并在发现职业环境不适合自己时尽早制定退出路线。 亲属危机、创伤处理与哀伤疗愈 (18:26) 在经历长达15年、平均每年飞行55次的高强度电视节目录制生涯后，Trinny不得不面对前夫Johnny因严重摩托车事故引发的处方止痛药成瘾危机。虽然两人最终协议离婚，但依然保持着每日通话的密切关系。在Trinny 50岁时，饱受抑郁症和未确诊创伤后应激障碍折磨的前夫不幸自杀身亡，使她瞬间陷入独自抚养女儿并应对巨额遗留债务与行政烂摊子的绝境。Trinny指出，自杀事件发生后，家属极易陷入反复推演“假如当初”或追查责任的内耗中，而这类执念往往阻碍了真正的哀伤疗愈。为了支撑女儿并创立公司，她将自身悲伤压抑在机械运转的生活中长达八年，直到后来独自生活才真正释放深层哀痛。这段经历让她体悟到心理创伤与成瘾机制的破坏力，以及如实接纳悲剧、停止自责对走出阴影的重要性。 53岁逆境创业与颠覆风投获客神话 (32:32) 53岁启动Trinny London项目时，Trinny遭遇了来自风险投资领域的普遍冷眼与年龄偏见。她经历了48次直接融资拒绝并发送了约300封引荐邮件，常被投资人以社交媒体粉丝不足或年龄过大为由断然拒绝。为筹备启动资金，她出租并最终卖掉了自己翻修的自住住宅，并通过两次家庭衣物清仓义卖筹集到6万英镑种子资金。在与资本方的交涉中，她坚决反对当时风投机构推崇的“70%新客获取、30%复购留存”的烧钱获客模式，执意践行“60%留存率、40%新客拓展”的稳健路径，直言缺乏口碑认同的买量增长无异于将企业建立在流沙之上。此外，她敏锐指出了风投领域的性别偏见——男性投资人往往习惯盘问女性创始人“如何防范下行风险”，而对待男性创始人却鼓励探讨“如何最大化上行空间”，因此创业者必须具备主动引导叙事、强行将沟通重心转向企业扩展潜力的心力。 品牌规模化、护肤理念与放权转型 (45:38) Trinny London连续五年实现超过100%的年均复合增长率，上一财年营收突破5000万英镑，业务覆盖全球180个国家，其中英国占50%、澳大利亚占23%、美国占10%。其自主研发的护肤产品线在推出一年半内便贡献了38%的总营收，成为全品牌客户留存率最高的核心引擎。Trinny强调护肤品绝不能依赖代工厂现成配方，必须依托独立实验室针对皮肤堵塞与暗沉进行靶向配方研发。在产品哲学上，她倡导涵盖清洁、日常广谱防晒、细胞更新成分以及维生素C的极简核心框架，并建议入门者通过洁面啫喱、酸类焕肤液与烟酰胺面霜配合面部淋巴按摩建立起易于坚持的日常习惯。为了实现未来十年服务1500万女性的愿景，面对此前年工作量透支到365天以上的过度负荷，Trinny开始积极向专业管理层放权，并通过正念冥想为大脑留出空间，以保障持续的战略创造力。 Trinny Woodall的创业旅程体现了个体经历与商业愿景的深度绑定，打破了高龄与性别在初创领域的认知壁垒。然而，随着社群目标计划从100万人大规模拓展至1500万人，以及创始人在逐步放权运营与维持个人IP高频互动之间的平衡，品牌能否在激进的国际化扩张中持续维持核心受众的极高复购粘性，依然面临长期的运营考验。

## Background 本视频由知名商业访谈栏目《The Diary Of A CEO》的主持人 Steven Bartlett 于 2023 年 9 月 11 日在 YouTube 平台发布。节目简介重点介绍了时尚权威兼 Trinny London 创始人 Trinny Woodall 的人生传奇，探讨她如何从早年深陷毒瘾的低谷彻底蜕变，并在 53 岁逆势创业打造估值数亿美元的商业帝国。 ## TL;DR Trinny Woodall 坦诚回顾了自己二十多岁与严重毒瘾搏斗并目睹挚友相继离世的惨痛过往，以及前夫因严重心理创伤自杀给她带来的漫长情感封冻与迟来哀伤。面对年龄偏见与风险投资圈对女性创始人的刻板印象，她在 53 岁卖掉房产背水一战，历经 48 次路演拒绝后坚持以高留存为核心，成功将 Trinny London 打造成年营收超五千万英镑、业务遍布全球的现象级美妆护肤品牌。访谈中她还深入剖析了冒充者综合征的本质、创业者“混乱即稳定”的内在心理驱动力，并现场示范了其极简护肤哲学与面部淋巴引流技巧。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话呈现出一种罕见的毫无矫饰的真挚与雷厉风行的强大气场，在触碰自杀、成瘾与丧亲之痛等沉重创伤时情感极具穿透力，而在探讨商业操盘与打破年龄天花板时又充满幽默、锋芒与不可阻挡的充沛活力。Steven 与 Trinny 展现了极高默契的深度共鸣，从对创始人心理机制的尖锐拷问，无缝切换到现场闭眼触诊与面部按摩的生动互动，既有直击心灵的脆弱释怀，又有令人热血沸腾的实干力量。 ## Bulletin - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=0s) Trinny Woodall 从二十多岁深陷严重毒瘾到53岁毅然创业，成功打造出估值超2.5亿美元且年复合增长率超100%的美妆护肤品牌 Trinny London，上一财年营收已突破5000万英镑。 - [38:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2320s) 在早期融资阶段遭遇48次正式路演全被拒绝后，Trinny 坚决摒弃当时风投狂热推崇的“70%获客拉新”模式，转而以“60%留存率”为水泥地基打造自然复购与口碑裂变。 - [41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2460s) Trinny 敏锐揭露了风投对女性创始人的隐性偏见：针对男性聚焦于“最大化上行收益”，对女性则纠缠于“防范下行风险”；她通过精准风控三部曲强势夺回了谈判主导权。 - [25:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1501s) 前夫因未确诊的 PTSD 与处方药成瘾不幸自杀后，Trinny 在高强度生存与创业重压下情感封冻数年，最终在获得独处空间后才完成与创伤的内心和解。 ## Key takeaways - [04:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=246s) 毒瘾与迷茫往往源于内在认同的缺失，而戒毒初期必须彻底切断旧有社交圈；当年与 Trinny 一同立誓戒毒的三位好友在两年内相继丧命，展现了成瘾的残酷代价。 - [08:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=485s) 真正的冒充者综合征并非能力不足，而是内心自我认知与对外展现的职业假象产生了严重割裂；长期戴面具伪装必将导致神经和精力的彻底崩溃。 - [12:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=766s) 早期英国戒毒所流行的当众批判和羞辱式治疗文化极具毁灭性，不仅未能提供科学引导，反而加深了成瘾者的绝望与疏离感。 - [18:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1083s) 与药物成瘾复发的伴侣共同生活极具精神消耗，清醒的一方往往像是在“捡拾面包屑”，因过度贪恋短暂的温情瞬间而刻意无视家庭瓦解的现实。 - [25:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1501s) 自杀丧亲往往伴随着极度的自责与外部猜测；Johnny 因服役经历患有长达20年未被确诊的 PTSD，其严重的过度警觉最终扭曲了认知走向悲剧。 - [23:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1385s) 人在遭受巨大创伤后往往会本能地将情感“归类封存”以应付生存危机，只有在具备安全感与充分独处的空间时，迟来的哀伤才能真正宣泄愈合。 - [32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1952s) 年龄纯粹只是借口，创业的核心在于是否有足够的精力清晨一跃而起进入战斗；53岁不能创业的社会偏见是彻头彻尾的谬论。 - [35:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2157s) 为了给初创企业筹集资金，Trinny 忍痛卖掉了为女儿精心打造的梦想之屋，并通过举办私人旧衣清仓售卖筹得6万英镑启动资金背水一战。 - [38:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2320s) Trinny 坚守“60%留存、40%增长”的商业模型，拒绝把企业建立在砸钱获客的流沙之上，认为极致产品力和高复购才是消费品品牌最坚固的水泥地基。 - [41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2460s) 在路演中通过清晰模块化的线性叙事降低男投资人的理解门槛，并主动识破以“下行风险”打压女性创业者的偏见，强行将议题拉回盈利与上行空间。 - [43:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2610s) 投资人断言成熟女性不会在线上购买美妆，Trinny 则通过自研算法诊断系统 Match2ME 击碎了这一偏见，并开始反向审视和挑选能提供战略价值的投资人。 - [45:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2735s) Trinny London 的护肤品业务仅推出一年半就贡献了38%的总营收，凭借超高复购率与留存率成为核心驱动力，公司整体保持年均超100%的高速增长。 - [47:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2828s) 践行从奥普拉处学到的“三次重复沟通法则”，用直白且符合受众语境的方式输出认知，坚持全自研实验室拒绝贴牌生产。 - [49:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2988s) 高成就创业者往往陷入“混乱即稳定，稳定即混乱”的心理悖论与“金牌抑郁症”，停留在成就中会滋生不安，永不停歇的前进才是维持生存的呼吸。 - [01:00:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3656s) 未来十年的成功不在于退隐享乐，而在于将社群从100万拓展至1500万，并通过有效的放权和时间梳理，把自身精力解放给唯有自己才能做的事。 - [01:04:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3845s) 新书《Fearless》刻意摒弃了个人面部肖像封面，以去个人偏见的极简高级设计聚焦内容本身，传递纯粹的自我赋能与生活哲学。 - [01:06:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3976s) 护肤底层遵循彻底清洁、防晒、促细胞再生与抗氧四大基石，面部淋巴引流能够显著改善皮下堵塞与浮肿，男士极简三步法即可满足日常需求。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=0s) 开场预告与频道呼吁 访谈在一场轻松又略带自嘲的互动中拉开序幕。Trinny Woodall 打趣要检查主持人 Steven Bartlett 的皮肤，随后画面切入本期节目的高光剪辑：作为屏幕上的时尚美妆标杆，以及欧洲增长最快的品牌之一——Trinny London 的创始人兼 CEO，Trinny 分享了她从人生低谷走向估值2.5亿美元商业帝国的传奇历程。她在二十岁出头时极度迷失并深陷毒瘾，甚至首次进戒毒所就因恶作剧播放色情录像而被开除。历经二十年媒体生涯后，她在53岁毅然转型创业，卖掉房产、在毫无薪水的情况下逆流而上，用行动击碎了“53岁不能创业”的社会偏见。此外，她还触及了生命中最沉重的阴影：前夫因心理疾病最终选择自杀，这一悲剧留下了无尽的痛苦与追问。随后，主持人 Steven 穿插了一段对观众的诚恳呼吁，指出后台数据显示有高达 69.9% 的常客尚未订阅频道，并承诺只要大家点击订阅，团队将不断提升节目品质作为回报。 - Trinny London 估值超过2.5亿美元，是欧洲成长最迅猛的美妆品牌之一。 - 面对“53岁能否开启新事业”的质疑，Trinny 直言年龄只是数字，核心在于是否具备充沛的精力、激情以及不屈的毅力。 - 频道后台统计显示，多达 69.9% 的长期观众尚未点击订阅按钮。 --- ### [02:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=135s) 迷失的二十岁与毒瘾的开端 Steven 观察到 Trinny 拥有极为鲜明、坦率的性格，并探寻这种性格究竟何时成型。Trinny 坦言，性格是在人生的锤炼中逐渐明晰的。在十几岁末期到二十岁出头时，她经历了一段极度迷失的阶段。外界常常认为她魅力非凡、引人注目，但只有她自己清楚内心深处极度缺乏自信。许多人接触毒品正是因为迷茫与不安全感，试图借此掩盖内在的自我认同缺失。早在16岁时，她便出于年轻人的猎奇心理开始偶尔吸毒，但这逐渐演变成无法自拔的成瘾。直到26、27岁彻底戒毒并告别混乱的二十岁时，她才长舒一口气，真正开启了寻找自我的漫长旅途。 --- ### [04:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=246s) 戒毒反复、午夜盟约与残酷的生死代价 到了22岁左右，Trinny 感到生活彻底失去了方向。家人虽然不懂成瘾的复杂机理，但能明显察觉到她的异样与退化。当她向父亲坦白自己吸毒时，父亲天真地以为“既然说了，那你现在就能戒掉”，而哥哥则清醒地指出戒瘾远比想象中艰难。她最初进入戒毒所后因违规被赶出，随后尝试参加互助戒毒会议。然而康复初期的最大挑战在于必须切断旧有社交圈，在孤独感的驱使下，大约六个月后她重新联络旧友并导致复吸。 Trinny 描述了一种极其折磨的“中间状态”：在未接触戒毒前，无知尚能带来短暂的麻木；而一旦理解了康复之路却依然复吸，每一次摄入都会伴随着巨大的自责与内疚。一个深夜，她与三位同样深陷毒瘾的挚友共同吸毒，情绪激动之下彼此许下盟约：“我们明天一起去戒毒所，我们要去征服世界！”次日清晨醒来，她罕见地发现自己内心的坚定并未消退。深知犹豫就会丧失勇气的 Trinny，立刻拨通了心理咨询师的电话，强调自己只有不到两个小时的心理窗口期，必须立刻被送进戒毒所。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 康复历程与朋友命运对比 accDescr: 展现 Trinny 在戒毒中的选择与三位好友最终走向死亡的残酷对比。 subgraph Pact ["午夜盟约"] A["4人深夜相聚吸毒<br/>立约明早戒毒"] end subgraph Divergence ["清晨抉择"] B["Trinny Woodall<br/>抓住2小时心理窗口期"] C["3位挚友<br/>未能跟进彻底戒断"] end subgraph TrinnyPath ["Trinny 的重生之路"] D["变卖家产自费戒毒5个月"] E["转入中途宿舍生活7个月<br/>（每周8-10英镑，养老院看护工）"] F["终身不再碰毒品<br/>迎来人生二次重生"] end subgraph FriendsFate ["朋友们的残酷结局"] G["第1位朋友在戒毒期离世"] H["第2位朋友次年离世"] I["2年内3位朋友相继丧命"] end Pact --> B Pact --> C B --> D D --> E E --> F C --> G G --> H H --> I ``` Trinny 变卖了名下所有资产，支付了长达五个月的戒毒费用。在这期间，当年一同立下盟约的一位朋友不幸离世。随后，她转入位于滨海韦斯顿（Weston-super-Mare）的中途宿舍（halfway house）生活了七个月。在那段日子里，她每周仅靠八到十英镑维持生活与买烟，并在一家养老院做基础护工。当她重返伦敦时，整个人已脱胎换骨。然而毒瘾的代价极其残忍：次年第二位好友离世，短短两年内，当初同桌立誓的三位挚友全部因毒品丧命。身边的惨剧让她彻底清醒，她依靠“过好每一天”（one day at a time）的康复原则，自此终身不再碰毒品，并开始认真思考属于自己的第二次人生。 - 戒毒所治疗历时5个月，资金完全依靠变卖个人私人物品筹集。 - 中途宿舍生活持续7个月，每周生活费仅8至10英镑，兼职担任养老院护工。 - 当年一同立誓戒毒的3名核心好友，在短短2年内全部相继离世。 --- ### [08:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=485s) “冒充者综合征”的本质：内在与外在的割裂 当 Steven 问及在她成瘾最严重的时期，旁观者会看到什么场景时，Trinny 直言外人根本看不出异样。她并不是流落街头无法自理的瘾君子；相反，她在伦敦金融城（the City）做大宗商品交易，表面上打扮得体、步履匆匆、工作光鲜，甚至在简历上过度夸大工作成就，以完美掩盖内部的崩塌。 这种表里不一的状态让她对现今流行的“冒充者综合征”（Impostor Syndrome）标签提出了截然不同的深刻见解。她极其讨厌这个被泛化的标签。通常人们用它形容“能力尚未匹配目标、还需学习更多”，但在 Trinny 眼中，真正的冒充者综合征是一种深层的心理割裂——你的内心认知与你向外界投射的形象完全脱节，以至于你感觉自己成了“寄居在自己躯壳里的冒充者”。长期戴着面具生活必将付出代价，因为人的神经与精力终有承受的极限，“有些东西迟早会崩溃”。她提醒那些在工作中感到错位、因社会评价或家庭期望而勉强支撑的人们，去诚实地自省：你是否真的热爱自己的事业与环境？如果不能把内在的真实与外在的表象调和一致，虚饰的生活终将走向崩溃。 ### [11:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=673s) 走出讨厌的工作：伦敦金融城的男装伪装与知识力量 如果发现自己在工作会议上面对未知领域，Trinny 的建议非常简单直接：那就去把它学透。听播客、阅读书籍、主动求知，因为知识就是底气和力量；当你掌握了知识再走进会议室，自然会感到自己能做出实质贡献。同样地，若是深刻反思后确认自己痛恨当前的工作——比如在伦敦金融城当一名大宗商品交易员，那就必须果断离开。她指出，人每天算上通勤以及高管层面的思考时间，往往长达16个小时扑在工作上，醒着工作的时间远多于睡眠，因此绝不能忍受一份毫无热爱的工作。 回想起自己20岁出头的经历，Trinny 曾在伦敦金融城的交易大厅工作，那里是整整64个男人和她唯一一个女性的极端环境。为了生存与适应，她不仅讨厌透了那份工作，更被迫将自己全副武装成男性：去 Rosetti 买男鞋、找裁缝定制男士西装，甚至在大厅里的男人们嬉笑胡闹、当众扯裤子时，她只能躲进女洗手间，压低嗓音练习粗沉的声线，以便在电话里向客户推销英美资源（Anglo American）基金时让对方误以为自己是个男人。每天乘坐地铁去往靠近塔丘（Tower Hill）和伦敦世界贸易中心的办公室时，她总会在外面套上一份《金融时报》（Financial Times），里面却夹着《每日邮报》（Daily Mail）——这种巨大的虚荣伪装与内心撕裂，正是她当时全部生活的写照，最终促使她下定决心彻底离开金融圈。 ### [12:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=766s) 戒毒所的耻辱文化与放色情片的闹剧 提到早年被第一家戒毒所开除的往事，Steven 提及是因为放映色情录像带。Trinny 回忆道，那段经历看似荒诞滑稽，实则是一场痛苦的灾难。她前一晚在纽约参加一位保持43年清醒状态的老朋友的葬礼时，偶然发现对方也曾去过同一家戒毒所。两人一致认为，那是当年全英国最令人感到羞耻和践踏尊严的地方。不同于现代戒毒机构注重引导与疏导病因，当时的英国戒毒模式极端扭曲：机构要求患者写下自己的整个人生经历，然后让屋里的20个人当面轮流批判、羞辱和评判你的人生有多么糟糕。 在那种压抑、残酷且人人自危的冰冷氛围中，Trinny 试图做点什么让大家发笑以苦中作乐，便恶作剧般地播放了色情录像带。然而这种在极度恶劣环境下的幽默尝试彻底弄巧成拙，她随即被直接驱逐出院。 当 Steven 问及她似乎从未像 Macklemore、Russell Brand 或 Steve-O 那样经历过连续数天吸食海洛因、驾车撞穿民宅或扬言跳楼等极端惨烈崩溃，究竟是什么驱动她下定决心戒毒时，Trinny 剖析了成瘾背后的心理机制： - **吸毒者与酗酒者的心理差异**：成瘾群体中往往流传着一种现象——吸毒者倾向于夸大自己的用药量以寻求极端的认同（"Maximize their using"），而酗酒者则常常隐瞒、缩小自己的饮酒量（"Minimize their drinking"）。这导致酗酒者往往需要更长的时间才能认清现实并走向戒断，而毒品因为致命速度更快，往往更早把人逼入绝境。 - **保护女儿的底线**：Trinny 坦承每个人都有疯狂荒唐的过往，但她并不想在镜头前大谈那些疯狂行径，最核心的原因是她有一个19岁的女儿 Lyla，她不希望自己的言论对女儿造成负面影响。 ### [16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=990s) 电视生涯的黄金时代与身心透支的抉择 走入媒体行业的十余年间，Trinny 与 Susannah Constantine 共同主持的时尚改造节目《What Not to Wear》（时尚改造家）取得了巨大成功。尽管以现在的眼光看，当年的节目形式存在一些争议，但在当时却给无数女性带来了全新的视角和深远的启发。Trinny 发自内心地热爱这个过程：她们走遍全英各地，见证女性在一周之内脱胎换骨式的蜕变，并在节目结束后长期保持联络，见证她们结婚、生子、重获新生。那种在他人心中“拨动开关”、赋予他人信心的成就感无可替代。 然而，这种光鲜的媒体生涯最终变得不可持续： - **高强度的空中飞人生活**：从最初单纯制作单季节目和每年写一本书，发展到同时录制三四档节目，Trinny 每年平均要乘坐约 55 次航班。 - **家庭角色的剥离**：她总是在周日深夜告别伦敦的家，直到周五才能赶回，而当时她还有一个年仅7岁的幼女。 - **家庭后方的危机**：与此同时，她的伴侣身体状况极不稳定，长期深陷严重的健康与成瘾泥潭。面对这种极度割裂的状态，Trinny 意识到必须停下脚步，重新规划个人生活。 ### [18:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1083s) 伴侣的处方药成瘾与“捡拾面包屑”的婚姻 Trinny 与前夫 Johnny Elichaoff 相识于她27岁刚戒毒成功之际，两人于她35岁时正式结婚。Johnny 当时同样处于戒断康复期，但后来经历了一场严重的摩托车事故。车祸导致他身受重伤，在医疗过程中接触了强效止痛药，从而不幸引发了严重的阿片类止痛药成瘾复发。面对很多普通人对“止痛药”只是扑热息痛的误解，Trinny 深刻剖析了与成瘾者共同生活的绝望心境。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 伴侣成瘾带来的心理消耗循环 accDescr: 展示面对复发性成瘾伴侣时，家庭成员经历的不确定性、自我欺骗与心理消耗 subgraph AddictionCycle["成瘾者的不稳定循环"] A["突发事故/严重创伤"] --> B["医疗使用强效止痛药"] B --> C["药物成瘾复发"] C --> D["状态好转期<br/>展现正常温情"] D --> E["复发低谷期<br/>喜怒无常与失控"] E --> D end subgraph PartnerState["伴侣的心理困境"] F["每日无法预知的提心吊胆"] G["紧抓好转瞬间不放<br/>'捡拾桌底的面包屑'"] H["刻意回避与无视致命裂痕"] end E -.-> F D -.-> G G -.-> H ``` 与成瘾者生活在一起，最折磨人的是每日行为模式的极度不可预测性与反复无常。在关系亮起红灯的漫长岁月里，清醒的一方往往就像是在“捡拾餐桌上掉下的面包屑”——因为太留恋对方状态良好、温情脉脉的短暂时刻，宁愿选择性无视整个家庭正在分崩离析的严酷现实。尽管在创办早期科技公司和结婚的时期，Johnny 曾有过十分健康的阶段，但成瘾的幽灵始终笼罩着这段婚姻。 ### [20:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1233s) 离婚、离世噩耗与迟到多年的悲伤 两人最终结束了婚姻选择离婚，但彼此并未反目，而是始终保持着异常亲密的联系，甚至每天都会通电话。在 Trinny 50岁左右、正逐步结束国外电视拍摄并筹备创立 Trinny London 品牌的阶段，Johnny 不幸离世。曾经 Johnny 常常对女儿 Lyla 说起一句话：“我们担忧的事情99%都不会发生”；然而 Trinny 痛心地感慨，那致命的1%最终却实实在在地降临在了他们头上。 前夫的骤然离世彻底颠覆了她的世界，将她瞬间推入单亲母亲的现实。然而在那一刻，Trinny 甚至没有资格停下来痛哭一场： - **创伤后的情感封冻**：Johnny 离世后留下了一团极其棘手的烂摊子，尤其是庞大而复杂的财务危机，迫使她必须立刻开启“自动驾驶模式”，以理性和麻木去处理眼前的现实危机。 - **迟到多年的痛哭**：长期的责任压迫让她将真实的悲恸深深封存。直到多年后（某个三月），当她搬进新居、女儿 Lyla 暂时外出，迎来了整整35年来第一次真正完全属于自己的独处空间时，压抑已久的情感防线才轰然崩塌，为当年离去的 Johnny 痛痛快快地宣泄了一场迟到多年的悲伤。 ### [23:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1385s) 迟来的哀伤：在重压与火海后给自己喘息的空间 在前夫 Johnny Elichaoff 去世后，Trinny 的生活瞬间陷入混乱。她当时住在一处自己已经无力负担的房子里，出于生计与现实的重重考量，她不得不变卖房产。那是一段漫长而焦头烂额的岁月，她一边要想方设法扑灭生活中接踵而至的“各种火灾”，一边在艰难筹备自己的新事业，同时还要竭尽全力引导并保护女儿 Lila，确保女儿能平稳度过创伤。在长达数年的时间里，她的大脑几乎完全被生存与责任填满，根本没有余力去停下来直面内心的痛苦。 直到多年后，生活再次发生转变，Trinny 决定搬出来独自生活。当 Lila 出门离家整整一周、屋子里只剩下她一个人时，那种被压抑了许久的巨大情感才骤然翻涌上来。Trinny 坦言，人在很多时候其实深知自己还不够坚强，无法在承受现实重压的同时去彻底体会悲伤并继续前行；人必须在特定的时刻、在给自己留出足够呼吸空间的安全境地里，才能毫无评判、毫无负罪感与悔恨地去完整感受这份悲痛。当一切外界干扰终于褪去，被问及那一刻情感的全部重量是什么时，Trinny 沉默片刻后动情地表示：“在其他人身上，都找不到比最好的 Johnny 更好的特质了（there was nothing better in anyone else than the bestness of Johnny），我真的非常想念他。” ### [25:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1501s) 面对自杀的真相与心理挣扎 Johnny 的离世极其复杂且残酷，因为他并非死于自然原因，而是死于自杀。Steven 指出，面对伴侣或前伴侣以这种方式离去，留给生者的痛苦往往比普通丧亲更加错综复杂。Trinny 坦言，任何意料之外的死亡都会让人猝不及防，但自杀的特殊环境会彻底打乱每个人面对死亡的方式。在 Johnny 死后，各种猜测甚至家庭内部的阴谋论层出不穷，出现了一百零一种混乱的说法，而这些繁杂的噪音反而掩盖了那个最残酷的基本事实——这个人已经不在了，没有任何事情能让他重返人世。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 应对自杀丧亲的心理应对与走出困境流程 accDescr: 展示面对至亲由于创伤和自杀离世后，家属从自责与外在纠结转向专业求助和接纳哀伤的过程 subgraph TraumaBackground["创伤根源与自杀悲剧"] A["服役与急救员经历带来的未确诊 PTSD"] --> B["对子女的过度警觉与心理扭曲"] B --> C["错误认定'离开孩子才是对他们最好的选择'"] C --> D["走向不可挽回的自杀结局"] end subgraph GriefStruggle["丧亲者的心理泥潭"] D --> E["无休止自责：'我是不是本可以阻止他？'"] D --> F["外界干扰：警方疏漏与家庭阴谋论纠纷"] E -.-> G["陷入执念与时间停滞，阻碍哀伤愈合"] F -.-> G end subgraph HealingProcess["心理干预与接纳释怀"] H["专业悲伤辅导<br/>（Julia Samuel 介入引导）"] --> I["寻找正确言语向孩子坦白事实"] I --> J["放下外界执念，直面各阶段真实情绪"] J --> K["经历数年时间沉淀，最终达成内心和解"] end G -.->|"必须学会放手"| J D --> H ``` 每一个经历过亲人自杀的人，第一反应无一例外都是拷问自己：“我是不是本可以做点什么来阻止这一切？”随着 Trinny 对自杀行为了解得越深，她越发意识到，当一个人真正下定决心结束生命时，他们往往不再对外倾诉，所有的痛苦都转入了极度的内化，旁人极难察觉。Johnny 曾在以色列军队服役并担任急救护理人员，那段经历极其艰难残酷，导致他患上了创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）。令人唏嘘的是，这种病症在长达二十年的时间里从未得到确诊。PTSD 让 Johnny 对自己的孩子们产生了严重的“过度警觉”（hypervigilance），时刻为孩子的安危焦虑发疯。Trinny 痛心地反思，一个深爱孩子的父亲，究竟在大脑里陷入了怎样绝望的深渊，才会彻底说服自己“离开孩子们的人生，才是对他们最好的保护”。 Trinny 强调，在自杀事件发生后，周围会有太多程序上的瑕疵（例如警方的办案疏漏）和让人愤慨的细节，如果死死抓住这些不放，人就会被困在原地，被怨恨彻底吞噬，从而无法真正走过哀伤的各个阶段。为了保护女儿，她在得知噩耗后立刻联系了英国著名的悲伤辅导专家 Julia Samuel（著有《This Too Shall Pass》与《Grief Works》）。Julia 是 Trinny 姐姐的朋友，她第一时间赶到家中，在 Trinny 还没告诉女儿之前，教会了她该如何用恰当的语言向孩子解释这一残酷事实。Steven 总结道，许多人在遭遇重大创伤或丧亲之痛的前几年里，都会本能地将情感“归类封存”（compartmentalize），以为自己已经挺过去了，但未处理的创伤往往在暗中改变着一个人的性格与状态；直到八年之后当空间与独处降临时，那份迟来的哀伤才真正找到了宣泄与愈合的出口。 ### [32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1952s) 53岁创业纯属扯淡？用不可阻挡的精力打破年龄偏见 谈到八年后的新生，Trinny 迎来了她人生中至关重要的转折点——在 53 岁时创立自己的美妆品牌 Trinny London。当 Steven 提及外界对于“人到中年不该再冒险创业、中年人不可能融到资金”的刻板印象与偏见时，Trinny 毫不客气地连续爆粗痛斥这是“彻头彻尾的屁话”（crap, absolute crap）。 Trinny 直言，自己在 16 岁上学时就创立了人生中第一个小生意——卖发饰的“Bows Unlimited”，而如今她在 53 岁再次创业。在她看来，年龄纯粹就只是一个该死的数字： - 人可以选择喋喋不休地拿这个数字当借口，也可以将目光聚焦于当下你究竟拥有多少能量去践行自己的梦想。 - 创业当然需要无休止的毅力（perseverance）、韧性（resilience）、动力和受挫后拍拍灰尘继续大步向前的狠劲。 - 但这一切的前提，是你必须拥有那种能让你清晨从床上一跃而起、立刻进入战斗状态的充沛精力（energy）。 面对 Steven 询问这种劲头是否是在前夫去世后才慢慢培养起来的，Trinny 回应称，自己早在成名节目《What Not to Wear》时期就已经连续两年半每天高负荷工作 18 个小时，骨子里一直就是一个极具韧劲的实干苦干者（grafter）。这个美妆品牌的设想实际上已经在她脑海中酝酿打磨了许多年。 ### [34:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2064s) 48次拒绝与300封邮件：打造 Trinny London 的艰难起点 Trinny 透露，自己早在 2013 至 2014 年前后就开始四处寻求投资，整整耗费了三年时间才让品牌正式面世。她当时向投资人推介的电梯游说（elevator pitch）极其精准且聚焦： - **核心定位**：专为 35 岁以上女性打造的便携式、膏霜基底、高度个性化的美妆产品（portable, cream-based, personalized makeup for women 35+）。 | 投资人质疑与负面反馈 | Trinny 的实际情况与内心回应 | |:--- |:--- | | **“你的社交平台粉丝太少了”** | 当时只有约 5 万粉丝，但她清楚这些是高粘性目标用户。 | | **“你的年纪太大了，不适合创业”** | 坚信年龄只是借口，执行力与精力才是关键。 | | **“你只是个台前名人，背后到底由谁来管公司？”** | 蔑视这种把女性创始人视为花瓶的傲慢偏见。 | 在跑通第一笔融资之前，Trinny 疯狂发出了 300 多封引荐邮件，足足做了 48 次正式路演（pitch），结果无一例外全遭到了拒绝。在漫长的被拒岁月里，投资人给出的理由五花八门，甚至有人质疑她活在不切实际的“梦幻岛”（Neverland）。尽管一次次面对“这绝不可能成功”的冷水，Trinny 却始终没有放弃。她坦言，当时内心的焦虑与永不言弃的执念是并存的，而支持她死磕到底的唯一信念在于，她发自内心地确信这是一个绝妙的商业构想，它必定能够成功，自己唯一需要做的，就是一直找下去，直到撞见那个拥有同样远见、能真正理解这个构想的合伙人。 ### [35:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2157s) 卖掉梦想之屋与变卖一切筹资 Trinny 决定创立美妆品牌，根源于她数十年来对女性真实痛点的透彻洞察。在职业生涯中，她曾亲自为超过 5,000 名女性进行过造型改造，深知普通女性在美妆柜台前感受到的挫败感：她们不知道如何画烟熏眼妆却羞于启齿，想改变却不知所措，更害怕在朋友面前显得无知可笑。然而，要将这份理解转化为一家企业，代价极其高昂。当 Steven 问及她付出了哪些个人牺牲时，Trinny 直言除了失去部分友谊，经济上的代价更是近乎倾家荡产。在与 Johnny 分居后，她曾咬牙背负巨额抵押贷款买下一栋房子，只为了能每天步行送女儿去学校。那是她一砖一瓦、倾注全部心血打造的“梦想之屋”。 随着创业资金吃紧与债务压顶，她整整纠结了六个月，每天都在苦思保住房子的办法。但当真正做出放手的决断时，她猛然惊醒：“这不过就是一栋该死的房子（It's just a fucking house）。”她意识到自己肩负着更宏大的使命，没有回头路，必须全力以赴。受到商业博主 Gary Vaynerchuk “变卖身边一切不必要物品换取启动资金”理念的影响，Trinny 索性在准备出租的房子里举办了两次大规模的私人衣物清仓义卖。通过邮件网络引流，上千人涌入她的家中淘衣服，这两场义卖为她筹集了整整 6 万英镑的急需资金，彻底将她推上了背水一战的创业道路。 - **深层痛点认知**：亲自改造过 5,000 多名女性，深谙她们在传统美妆柜台前的尴尬、自卑与真实需求。 - **重大财产割舍**：卖掉了为女儿上学和个人梦想而倾尽全力建造的住宅，摆脱高额房贷与债务包袱。 - **清仓筹集资金**：效仿 Gary Vaynerchuk 的理念，举办两次旧衣清仓售卖，吸引上千人到场，变现 6 万英镑作为启动资金。 --- ### [38:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2320s) 消除自我怀疑与留存基石之争 Steven 回忆起自己初创企业时的经历：为了生存甚至偷过超市披萨，拖欠着每月仅 150 镑的房租，即便对外展现出毫不动摇的笃定，但在当年的日记里依然能翻出动摇与自我怀疑的片刻。Trinny 对此深有共鸣。她指出，“没有退路”是大方向上的绝对信念，但这并不代表内心不会产生怀疑；尤其是当你接连拜访了十家投资机构却全部碰壁时，自我拷问在所难免。更令她痛苦的是，许多投资人往往把上一个会议里听来的流行概念盲目套用在她的项目上。 当时正值 Casper 等床垫 DTC 品牌风头正劲的时期，投资圈普遍狂热信奉“70% 新客增长，30% 用户留存”的激进获客神话。但 Trinny 始终坚信必须反过来——做到“60% 留存，40% 增长”。她认为没有极高的留存作为压舱石，光靠砸钱拉新无异于把高楼建在流沙之上。就像 Five Guys 等极少依赖大规模硬广的品牌一样，最坚固的商业模式必须依靠极致的产品体验和用户口碑驱动。尽管因为坚持这一理念被许多追逐短期风口的风投拒绝，但她始终坚守这块“水泥地基”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: D2C商业模式理念对比 accDescr: 对比当时主流投资机构推崇的拉新至上模式与 Trinny 坚守的以留存为水泥地基的稳健模式。 subgraph VC["主流投资机构视角（流沙模式）"] V1["激进拉新：70% 新客增长"] --> V2["忽视留存：30% 留存率"] V2 --> V3["极高获客成本，商业模式建在流沙之上"] end subgraph Trinny["Trinny 的商业构想（水泥地基）"] T1["极致产品力与个性化诊断"] --> T2["极高黏性：60% 用户留存"] T2 --> T3["自然复购与口碑裂变（如 Five Guys 模式）"] T3 --> T4["健康扩张：40% 新客稳健增长"] end ``` --- ### [41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2460s) 改变路演策略与化解“下行风险”性别偏见 在经历了一轮又一轮的闭门羹后，Trinny 开始向内审视，反思自己的路演沟通方式。她发现自己最初习惯展现一个宏大、全方位的商业全景，试图把投资人立刻拽入她构建的美妆宇宙中。但对于以男性为主的投资人群体来说，信息量过载反而让他们找不到抓手。于是她调整了策略，采用清晰、模块化的线性递进逻辑：“我们首先从这里切入，完成这步后我会交付第二阶段，接着我们再推进到第三目标。”这种条理分明的信息分块让投资人能够逐项验证、打钩，极大提升了沟通效率。 同时，Trinny 敏锐捕捉到了风险投资圈针对女性创业者普遍存在的潜意识偏见。正如商业研究所揭示的经典现象：面对男性创业者，投资人多半会问“你如何最大化上行收益（Maximize the upside）”，关注规模化与未来潜力；而面对女性创业者，问题往往集中在“你如何防范下行风险（Protect the downside）”，不断拷问产品出问题或找不到客户该怎么办。意识到这一点后，Trinny 不再被动防御。当对方刚有引向风险防范的苗头时，她便以轻描淡写却极其干脆的语气直接破解：“这三条措施就是我们的风控方案，和任何成熟企业一样；现在，让我们把重点放在如何最大化上行收益上。”她化被动为主动，强行将主导权扭转到企业的扩张潜力上。 - **沟通风格迭代**：放弃铺陈宏大宇宙的叙事，转为“第一步、第二步、第三步”的渐进式闭环汇报，降低男投资人的理解门槛。 - **识破性别偏见**： - 针对男性创业者：关注“最大化上行空间（Upside）”与规模化前景。 - 针对女性创业者：纠缠于“防范下行风险（Downside）”与试错补救。 - **强势化解策略**：用三点精炼风控回答迅速封死质疑，立刻将话题转回核心盈利与扩张蓝图。 --- ### [43:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2610s) 击碎线上美妆偏见与反选投资人 在路演过程中，Trinny 还遭遇了极其傲慢的客群年龄偏见。曾有一位风险投资人当面轻视她的项目，声称：“这个点子不错，但你必须做千禧一代或 Z 世代的市场才能成功，因为只有他们会在网上买美妆。像你这个年龄段的成熟女性，根本不可能在网上买化妆品。”当时整个行业的数据显示线上美妆渗透率仅为 26%，成熟群体更是少数。但 Trinny 坚信，这并非因为中年女性抗拒网购，而是市面上缺乏懂她们的个性化工具。她坚持打造算法诊断系统（Match2ME），用真实贴心的语言指导熟龄女性，让她们意识到在线上能获得比在 Peter Jones 等高档百货柜台更精准的肤色与产品匹配。品牌上线后，那些从未在网上买过彩妆的成熟女性一旦尝试，口碑迅速爆炸式蔓延，彻底推翻了投资人的武断定论。 这场经历也让 Trinny 的创业心态发生了深刻蜕变。创业者在缺乏资金时往往觉得自己处于弱势，容易把权力拱手让给资本方。但在走出那间风投办公室的瞬间，她意识到：“我根本不希望这种人成为我公司的股东。”她开始反向考察投资机构，主动在谈判中反客为主，质问投资人：“除了资金，你们还能给我的企业带来什么实际价值？你们宣称能组织行业首席营销官（CMO）资源互通，到底落没落实过？在你们眼里，这家企业真正的估值逻辑是什么？”她彻底从一个被动的求资者，转变为审慎挑选战略合伙人的企业掌控者。 ### [45:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2735s) Trinny London 的爆炸式增长与全球业务版图 当史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）试图求证网上流传的 1.8 亿英镑估值时，特里尼·伍德尔（Trinny Woodall）笑着回避了具体估值数字，但坦言公司发展势头极其强劲。在过去五年里，Trinny London 保持着年均超过 100% 的惊人复合增长率，上一财年的营收已突破 5000 多万英镑，产品销往全球 180 个国家。 在品牌产品线中，仅推出一年半的护肤品系列表现尤为亮眼，目前已占到公司总营收的 38%。特里尼指出，护肤品拥有整个业务板块中最高的用户留存率和复购率。对她而言，评估一家消费品公司的底层价值，核心就在于其产品基底与用户黏性。与此同时，品牌正积极在各海外市场推进本地化运营——从单纯的跨境发货跨越到深度本地化服务需要极高维度的个性化能力。目前，英国本土市场约占其总业务的 50%，澳大利亚市场贡献了约 23%，美国市场则占约 10%。面对如此强劲的财务与留存数据，史蒂文忍不住由衷赞叹：“这是一门非常了不起的生意，我都想投资了。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Trinny London 业务与市场构成 accDescr: 展示 Trinny London 的营收品类占比与主要区域市场分布情况 subgraph RevenueMix ["营收品类占比"] direction TB Skin["护肤品系列: 38%<br/>(高复购/最高留存率)"] MakeUp["彩妆及其他系列: 62%"] end subgraph GeoMarkets ["主要区域市场占比"] direction TB UK["英国本土: ~50%"] AU["澳大利亚: ~23%"] US["美国市场: ~10%"] Other["其他国际市场: ~17%"] end RevenueMix --> GeoMarkets ``` - **复合增速**：创业五年多以来，年均业务增长率保持在 100% 以上。 - **营收规模**：上一财年营收达到 5000 多万英镑（50-something million）。 - **全球渗透**：产品已销往全球 180 个国家，并在核心英语国家建立深度本地化运营。 --- ### [47:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2828s) 沟通的魔力：奥普拉的三次重复法则与自研护肤的执念 探讨到创始人特质时，史蒂文询问特里尼在业务中最不可替代的核心优势是什么。特里尼给出的答案是：**洞悉女性的真实反应与内心诉求，并懂得如何用对方真正能听得懂的方式说话**。这种沟通技巧在很大程度上归功于多年前她做客奥普拉·温弗瑞（Oprah Winfrey）脱口秀时的亲身体验。当时她们的书登上了全美畅销榜榜首，特里尼发现奥普拉会在半小时的访谈中，用不同方式把一个核心观点反复重复三遍。事后奥普拉向她点破其中的传播心智秘诀：“反复强调才能被大脑接收（register），被不断提醒（reminded），最终被牢牢记住（remember）。”特里尼将这种“在对话中用三种方式输出同一思想、促使听众带走全新认知”的技巧内化为了日常直觉。 在 Trinny London 的社交媒体内容中，特里尼面对的是跨度极大的女性受众群体——从年收入仅 1.8 万英镑、每月省吃俭用只为买一件单品的护士，到随手就能买下十件产品的高净值女性。她始终坚持向所有人传达不盲从、不浪费的理念：“适合你闺蜜的产品，绝不等于适合你。” 这份对护肤的近乎偏执的理解，源于她 18 岁时极为痛苦的重度囊肿性痤疮经历。当年她甚至会根据餐厅的灯光来决定进不进门——如果顶灯直射会暴露出脸上的脓疱和凸起，她会要求换一家餐厅，或者在整顿晚餐期间用手托着下巴遮挡脸部。正因为深刻体会过皮肤问题对个人自信的毁灭性打击，Trinny London 坚持在英格兰自建专属实验室，所有配方全部从零研发，坚决不做直接贴牌（white-label）的敷衍产品。 --- ### [49:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2988s) 面对赞美的防御姿态与“混乱即稳定”的心理机制 当史蒂文追问“你为这家企业感到骄傲吗？你为自己感到骄傲吗？”时，特里尼下意识地双手交叉抱在胸前，身体语言瞬间进入防御状态。她坦言，虽然理性上知道该为成就感到自豪，但她极度反感自我膨胀，当身边的老朋友真诚赞扬她取得的商业成就时，她往往会感到极不自在，甚至本能地想立刻把话题岔开。 这一反应引起了史蒂文的强烈共鸣。史蒂文坦陈，每当有人给予他巨大的赞美时，他的第一反应并不是享受，而是感到一种巨大的危机感——赞美在提醒他“所有这些成就随时都可能失去”。史蒂文由此提出了一个深刻的心理学悖论：“**混乱即稳定，稳定即混乱（Chaos is stability and stability is chaos）**。” 对于具有高成就动机的创业者而言，停留在功劳簿上的“停顿与成就感”反而会引发内心深处的焦虑与不安，因为这意味着停滞；相反，在充满未知、持续往前冲的“混乱与动态前行”中，他们才能获得心理上的安全与踏实。 --- ### [51:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3103s) “金牌抑郁症”与永不停歇的追寻：当工作成为生命的呼吸 史蒂文用“金牌抑郁症”（Gold Medal Depression）进一步阐释这种心理机制：多达 80% 的奥运选手在夺得金牌后会陷入严重的抑郁状态。人类天生需要一种持续前进的驱动感，最令人绝望的反而是目标完全达成、资源应有尽有、却失去了奋斗目标的空虚。史蒂文分享道，或许是因为童年时期的极度不安全感，他的自我价值感完全建立在“前进与实现”的过程上；一旦剥夺了他前行去追求的目标，所谓的“稳定”在心理上就演变成了无目的性的混乱。 两人的工作与底层的自我认同已经形成了深度绑定。特里尼犀利地向史蒂文发问：“那么，对你而言什么时候才算足够？（When will enough be enough?）”史蒂文坚定地回答：“永远不会足够。因为在我的认知里，成功从来不是一个终点线，成功本身就是前进、挑战、高度自主权，以及与所爱之人一起向有意义的目标奋斗的过程。”特里尼对此深表认同，并将其精辟地总结为：这种永不停息的前进正是创业者维持生存的“生命呼吸（life breath）”。 --- ### [54:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3267s) 中场播客赞助：Zoe 营养科技与能量管理 在探讨成功的意义间隙，史蒂文插入了本期播客赞助商 Zoe 的个人体验分享。作为一名需要频繁往返于投资会议和节目录制、几乎片刻不停的创始人，史蒂文特别注重保持高能的身体状态。 在邀请了 Zoe 的科学联合创始人蒂姆·斯佩克特教授（Professor Tim Spector）做客节目后，史蒂文成为了 Zoe 的深度会员。这项个性化营养科技服务帮助他精准识别了哪些食物契合自己的代谢特征、哪些食物会导致能量波动，从而彻底告别了下午会议期间经常出现的精力崩溃现象，为高强度的日常运转提供了坚实的生理支撑。随后，史蒂文将话题重新拉回对特里尼人生的深度拷问：“在当下这个阶段，对你而言成功究竟意味着什么？” ### [55:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3341s) 未来十年的成功定义与人际联结的取舍 当 Steven 问起“成功对你而言意味着什么”时，Trinny 坦言这是个让人一听就忍不住想说粗话的泛泛之谈。Steven 随即换了个更具体的方式切入：如果十年后再见面，回顾这过去的十年，什么样的状态才算作“成功的十年”？Trinny 认为唯有在这件事上她必须正视年龄——她现在 59 岁，到了 69 岁的时候，她是否还想工作得如此拼命，以至于错过朋友的生日，甚至无法参与工作之外的生活？ Trinny 解释道，在二三十岁的时候，身边的同龄人大多都在同一条奋斗轨道上，“就算推迟一个月说‘我们下个月找个周末一起出去’也没关系，因为大家都在拼”。但到了她现在的岁数，大约 80% 的朋友生活节奏都与她截然不同。然而，深厚的朋友情谊与人际联结是内心养分不可或缺的基石。虽然常有那种“墓碑上不会写着你工作有多努力”的陈词滥调，但 Trinny 强调，那通常针对的是做朝九晚五打卡上班的人，而她所做的事全然出于热爱（passion）。如果仅仅是一份工作，她早就放慢节奏了；如今她周游世界，去各个城市与女性交流，这份使命早超越了普通差事的范畴。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 友谊联结与年龄阶段的对比 accDescr: 对比20至30岁与近60岁时，个人生活节奏与社交圈同频程度的巨大差异 subgraph Young ["二三十岁的社交状态"] Y1["同龄朋友步调一致"] --> Y2["全心投入工作打拼"] Y2 --> Y3["容易相互理解，随时约周末相聚"] end subgraph Mature ["近六十岁的社交现实"] M1["约 80% 的朋友步调放缓"] --> M2["Trinny 依然全速高强度运转"] M2 --> M3["极易错过朋友生日与工作外的生活"] end ``` ### [57:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3462s) 重新审视工作生活平衡与忠实社群“Trinny Tribe” 谈到“工作与生活平衡”（work-life balance），Trinny 认为两者在自己这里很难割裂，因为她的日常工作本身就充满了真实的社交。她的社交媒体如今拥有数百万受众，其中形成了一个名为“Trinny Tribe”的紧密女性群体。这些女性即便与她素未谋面，却对她了解极深：有时 Trinny 开直播，她们敏锐察觉到异样便会发私信关切：“Trinny，我今早感觉到了你的情绪，你还好吗？要不要停下来深呼吸一下？”当年 Trinny 的前夫 John 离世时，她收到了数千条慰问留言。尽管公司有 11 人的团队每周处理约 12,000 条社媒评论，但她坚持亲自回复个人 Instagram 上的每一条互动，因为那是她生命中与女性连接的“跳动脉搏”。 深入理解受众的真实感受不仅是情感慰藉，也是商业的核心敏锐度。在英国面临生活成本危机的背景下，Trinny 时刻思索如何在保持高品质产品定位的同时，调整对话语境，确保与她们的生活产生共鸣。几天前，一位陌生女性给她发私信说：“Trinny，你必须记住去感受你现在正在经历的一切，你平时总是急匆匆地冲过去，但这次你必须停下来感受。”正是这样由衷的支持，构成了她创业的原动力。 - **社群运营规模**：团队由 11 人组成，每周处理约 12,000 条互动留言，但 Trinny 本人仍亲自管理并回复其个人 Instagram 账号。 - **核心品牌使命**：公司的终极使命是让女性在与 Trinny 本人、新书《Fearless》、播客或 Trinny London 接触后，离开时都能比接触前感觉更自信、更美好。 - **疫情期间的情感共鸣**：在疫情封锁期间，许多身处大家庭中的女性内心极度孤独，Trinny 每天通过视频和直播与她们面对面聊天，分享内心的痛苦脆弱，让大家意识到彼此并不孤单。 ### [01:00:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3656s) 十年目标：从百万走向 1500 万与学会放权 对于未来十年的成功标准，Steven 以为她 69 岁时打算退隐去海滩喝皮纳科拉达（Piña Colada）鸡尾酒，Trinny 当即反驳：“我什么时候说过这话？”她心目中未来的成功，是社群的进一步壮大——目前社群规模约有一百万人，她正式立下目标：在接下来的十年里，将这一数字拓展到 1500 万人。 然而，面对更宏大的规模与腾出时间维系社交的矛盾，Trinny 指出唯一的路径是机制迭代与有效放权：物色更优秀的人才来接替她目前所做的工作，从而把自己的精力解放出来，专注于“唯有她自己才能做的事情”。前阵子她与公司的 COO（首席运营官）以及一位董事会成员梳理了一整年 365 天的时间分配： | 工作事项类别 | 每年占用时间 | 现存问题与调整方向 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **董事会会议** | 每年 6 个完整工作日 | 必须出席，高度集中决策 | | **投资者相关事务** | 每年 12 个完整工作日 | 涉及大量沟通，消耗日程 | | **日常运营与会议** | 挤占剩余几乎所有时间 | 导致每年总工作天数核算下来竟然超过了 365 天 | | **休假与调整** | 过去 5 年来几乎从未休假 | 必须通过剥离非核心职责，为深度思考留出空白 | 董事会成员 Jane 直言不讳地提醒她必须做出改变，逐步梳理出哪些事情不必亲力亲为。Trinny 意识到，最卓越的商业灵感往往不是在日复一日的运营琐事中产生的，而是在抽离混乱、留出喘息空间的时刻才会涌现。为了给大脑留白，她每天早晨坚持使用 Calm 进行正念练习，最近又开始跟练 David G 基于麻省总医院（Massachusetts General Hospital）研究所开发的冥想音频（研究表明坚持 59 天冥想能像氯胺酮般重塑神经通路，她已坚持到了第 43 天）。她强调，到了 69 岁自己不会彻底停止工作，而是会以“不同的方式”工作——留出更多空间去迸发创意，并能心安理得地在周五请假过周末。就在两周前，她五年来首次休假出游五天，期间仅处理了大约 8 封邮件，这是极大的突破。 ### [01:04:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3845s) 新书《Fearless》的初衷：抛弃个人肖像，专注实战力量 谈话转向了 Trinny 的新书《Fearless》。Steven 称赞这是一本令人惊喜的作品，他在通读了其中的人生篇章后深受触动，汲取了许多关于冒充者综合征（Impostor Syndrome）与自我信念的洞见。虽然书中也涵盖了美妆和穿搭指导，但它本质上是一本融汇了生活哲学、美妆与风格的精美大型咖啡桌书（coffee table book）。 Trinny 拿起样书展示，指出了一个反常规的设计细节：封面上完全没有放她自己的大头肖像照，而是采用了极具张力的设计与纯粹的态度宣言。她幽默地解释说：“因为我真的一点都不喜欢看自己的照片，我真的烦透了看自己的脸！”更重要的是，如果封面放上自己的大脸，会带有强烈的个人偏见，让人产生距离感；而现在的极简高级质感，不仅能让读者更愿意把它摆在咖啡桌上随时翻阅，也更能让读者把注意力放在书中所传递的自我赋能信息上。Steven 感慨道，每当有嘉宾带产品上节目，他通常会客观介绍，但正是因为读懂了 Trinny 的为人、驱动力以及她那份毫无伪饰的炽热初心，才更能体会到这本书的分量。 ### [01:05:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3924s) 护肤品牌的使命感与新书《Fearless》 Steven 坦言，当听到 Trinny 对她所称的“使命”展现出如此深沉的执念与热情时，人们对她旗下产品的信任便油然而生。这份事业并非单纯的商业运作，而是植根于她青少年时期与严重痤疮斗争的真实经历，Trinny London 那些席卷全球的产品，正是这一纯粹使命感的产物。面对摆在眼前的护肤品，Trinny 幽默地表示要给 Steven 划划重点，让他能在女友面前展现专业护肤知识。在正式展开护肤指导前，Steven 特别提醒大家，Trinny 的新书《Fearless》即将在 9 月正式发售，强烈建议所有听众立即预订这本精美之作。 ### [01:06:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3976s) 护肤四大基石与现场“闭眼触诊” 谈及护肤的核心原则，Trinny 指出无论年龄、肤色或黑色素水平如何，基础护理始终遵循四大关键支柱：首先是彻底清洁肌肤；其次是全年无休地涂抹 SPF 防晒霜，这既是预防皮肤癌的头等大事，也是为了抗光老化的美观需求；第三是通过类视黄醇（Retinoids）或去角质成分（Exfoliants）促进细胞再生；第四则是使用维生素 C（Vitamin C）来维持肤色匀净。当 Steven 自嘲平日里疏于护肤“罪证确凿”时，Trinny 径直走到他身边，开启了一场生动的现场触诊。 为了排除视觉偏差带来的主观臆断，Trinny 闭上双眼，纯粹通过指腹触感来探查 Steven 的皮下状态。她立刻指出了 Steven 面部中心区域的皮下堵塞，并幽默地向大家科普：许多女性往往因为洗脸时不想弄湿发丝，而导致发际线周围堵塞，但 Steven 是典型的油性肌肤，皮脂腺常在皮下积聚阻塞。当 Steven 半开玩笑地反问那是不是肌肉时，Trinny 风趣地回击：“亲爱的，这根本不是肌肉，我分得清肌肉和堵塞！”她敏锐地指出，这种未发炎成痘的皮下油脂积聚，正是他额头频繁冒痘的根源。 ### [01:07:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=4074s) 淋巴排毒面部按摩与唤醒肌肤秘诀 诊断完堵塞后，Trinny 开始沿着 Steven 的耳周和颈部推压，带领他体验面部淋巴引流手法。Steven 对着收音麦克风直呼“感觉太舒服了”，Trinny 则解释道，耳后顺着颈部延伸至锁骨（Clavicle）是面部淋巴回流的生命线。面部浮肿或眼周黑眼圈往往是因为淋巴堵塞无法排出，Steven 恍然大悟：“难怪 Instagram 上的女人们总喜欢用刮痧板做这个动作！”针对 Steven 油脂分泌旺盛、偶有黑眼圈但水分充足的肌肤，Trinny 建议他使用液体去角质产品剥脱老废角质、疏通毛孔，并大量补充水分。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 面部淋巴引流与提拉手法 accDescr: 展示从耳周到锁骨的淋巴排毒路径以及面部摩擦提拉动作 subgraph 淋巴排毒路径 A["耳前及耳后淋巴结"] --> B["颈部侧面引流通道"] B --> C["锁骨处终点（释放毒素）"] end subgraph 面部唤醒提拉 D["剪刀手局部高频摩擦（上下/左右）"] --> E["双手托住面颊快速上推"] E --> F["促进血液充氧与淋巴流动"] end ``` Trinny 强调，大多数人平时极少主动触碰或按摩自己的脸，身体能通过健身获得充足氧气和淋巴循环，面部却往往被忽视。她把淋巴系统比喻为盘绕在面部的“花园水管”——如果水管被踩住，水流停滞，毒素就会滞留在皮下。随后她亲自示范了剪刀手摩擦动作（上下快速拉动再左右横向推按），并带动 Steven 双手紧贴脸颊快速上提苹果肌。在短暂停手后，Steven 明晰地感受到了面部血液与淋巴涌动的温热感，整张脸仿佛瞬间被唤醒。 - **去角质方案**：鉴于 Steven 并非敏感肌，Trinny 推荐他使用液体去角质产品 *Find Your Balance* 剥脱老废死皮。 - **细胞级焕活**：推荐使用含有烟酰胺（Niacinamide）与琥珀酸（Succinic Acid）的 *Energise Me* 保湿乳，琥珀酸能够直达细胞唤醒沉睡状态，即使长途飞行落地后肌肤也不会显露疲态。 ### [01:10:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=4230s) 专为男士打造的极简三步护肤法 面对繁琐的护肤步骤，Steven 请求一套最简洁的方案。Trinny 为他量身定制了极简“三步曲”： 1. **洗脸清洁**：淋浴时使用洁面乳 *Better Off*，其蕴含温和的果酸（AHA）与多羟基酸（PHA），在洗脸过程中同步温和剥脱角质； 2. **调理角质**：使用 *Find Your Balance* 液体去角质水深入清理毛孔油脂堵塞； 3. **补水唤醒**：涂抹富含琥珀酸与烟酰胺的 *Energise Me* 保湿霜。 Trinny 调侃道，女生的护肤流程通常会更长，可能包含视黄醇、维生素 C 等多种精华，但男士入门只要坚持这三样即可。而在生活作息方面，她给出的底层建议同样简单明确：“多喝水、充足睡眠，外加每天坚持按摩面部。”听到这里，长期对复杂护肤拖延懈怠的 Steven 笑着表示，如果步骤如此简单，甚至可以用蓝丁胶（Blu Tack）把这三瓶产品固定在洗手台上，自己一定会严格执行。 ### [01:11:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=4295s) 传统终极提问：时速83公里的滑雪与生命掌控感 访谈进入尾声，Steven 抛出了播客每期的固定保留环节——上一位嘉宾为未知的下一位嘉宾留下的神秘提问：“在生活中，带给你最健康快感的一件事是什么？你又将如何承诺让自己体验更多这种快乐？” Trinny 毫不犹豫地给出了一个惊险的答案：以每小时 83 公里的极速从雪坡上飞驰而下。但她紧接着苦笑表示，如今自己身上背负着沉甸甸的商业和团队责任，已经不能任性地去冒险了。尽管如此，那种全神贯注掌控一切、疾风穿过发丝的极速刺激，是她心中无法替代的狂热，这也是她唯一精通的体育运动。Steven 一针见血地点破：“这就像你对待生活的方式——高速飞驰、绝对掌控、疾风拂面。” 节目最后，Steven 送上了对 Trinny 极具分量的赞扬。他直言要让习惯了拼搏的 Trinny“难为情”一次，要求她必须停下脚步，为自己从药物成瘾的泥潭中走出来并打造出现象级品牌的旅程感到骄傲：“你创造了一家鼓舞无数人的真正企业，帮助他们通过优秀的产品重拾自信。花点时间深呼吸，好好享受这份成就吧。” ### [01:13:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=4391s) 播客赞助：Huel 畅销体验套组 节目尾声切入本期播客赞助商 Huel 的推广信息。Steven 向观众介绍了汇聚品牌最受欢迎单品的 Huel 畅销体验套组（Best Seller Bundle）。该套组包含了各类代餐食品、代餐棒、标志性摇摇杯、冲泡碗，并附赠一件版型极其出色的免费品牌 T 恤。Steven 表示自己无论是坐在董事会会议室、研发实验室还是在家里，都深度体验过 Huel 的每一款产品，对于想初次尝试、寻找最适合自身需求代餐方案的人群而言，该套组是绝佳的切入选择。 ### [01:13:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=4439s) 赞助商寄语与节目尾声 在访谈收尾之际，主持人 Steven 谈及赞助品牌 Huel 对他个人日常生活带来的颠覆性改变。他坦言，这类产品完全契合了他对于便捷、高效营养的日常诉求。对于那些初次尝试代餐营养品、希望探索健康饮食方式并加入“Hueligans”（Huel 忠实拥趸大家庭）的观众，Steven 给予了真诚的推荐，随后播客在舒缓的片尾音乐中圆满落幕。 - **品牌推荐要点**：Steven 强调 Huel 完美满足了他高强度快节奏生活下的营养标准与日常需求，并热情号召新听众尝试加入其品牌社群。 ## Notable quotes > [32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1952s) crap, absolute crap — Trinny Woodall > [34:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2064s) portable, cream-based, personalized makeup for women 35+ — Trinny Woodall > [35:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2157s) It's just a fucking house — Trinny Woodall > [23:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=1385s) there was nothing better in anyone else than the bestness of Johnny — Trinny Woodall > [12:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=766s) Maximize their using — Trinny Woodall > [12:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=766s) Minimize their drinking — Trinny Woodall > [49:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2988s) Chaos is stability and stability is chaos — Steven Bartlett > [51:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=3103s) When will enough be enough? — Trinny Woodall > [41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2460s) Protect the downside — Trinny Woodall > [41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs&t=2460s) Maximize the upside — Trinny Woodall ## Mentioned Trinny Woodall, Steven Bartlett, Trinny London, What Not to Wear, Susannah Constantine, Johnny Elichaoff, Lyla Elichaoff, Julia Samuel, Gary Vaynerchuk, Oprah Winfrey, Professor Tim Spector, Zoe, Huel, Fearless, Match2ME, Energise Me, Better Off, Find Your Balance, Calm, David G, Casper, Five Guys ## Video description If you enjoyed this episode you'll definitely enjoy our chat with Karren Brady https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwPKlERwcGk&t=21s&pp=ygUMa2FycmVuIGJyYWR5 In this new episode, Steven sits down with fashion guru and CEO, Trinny Woodall. 00:00 Intro 01:58 What Made Trinny Woodall 03:44 Starting Drugs at 16, My Addiction, and Going to Rehab 09:01 Impostor Syndrome: Projecting a Wrong Self to the World 12:37 Got Kicked Out of Rehab 16:19 Your Media Career 18:03 Dealing with My Husband's Addiction 25:01 Losing Him to Suicide 32:32 Starting a Business at 53 & Its Struggles 38:30 Overcoming Doubts When Starting a Business 42:00 Using Investor Prejudice to Your Advantage 45:23 Your Incredible Business Success 46:45 What Are Your Character Traits That Made Your Business Successful? 49:39 Are You Proud of What You’ve Achieved? 55:31 What Does a Successful Decade Look Like for You? 01:03:57 Fearless: Your Book 01:06:08 Your Skincare Range & Top Tips 01:10:18 The Starter Skincare Routine 01:11:25 Last Guest’s Question You can purchase Trinny's new book, 'Fearless' here: https://amzn.to/40ENwSn You can purchase all of Trinny London’s products here: https://bit.ly/3LhIc0G Follow Trinny: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3PtZ1rY Twitter: https://bit.ly/3PwB6YX YouTube: https://bit.ly/3RcvF2o My new book! 'The 33 Laws Of Business & Life' is out now: https://smarturl.it/DOACbook Join this channel to get access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Dpmgx5 Follow me: Instagram: http://bit.ly/3nIkGAZ Twitter: http://bit.ly/3ztHuHm Linkedin: https://bit.ly/41Fl95Q Telegram: http://bit.ly/3nJYxST Sponsors: Huel: https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb Zoe - http://joinzoe.com with an exclusive code CEO10 for 10% off [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUpZsEl5Rs)

[32:32] Trinny Woodall: crap, absolute crap [34:24] Trinny Woodall: portable, cream-based, personalized makeup for women 35+ [35:57] Trinny Woodall: It's just a fucking house [23:05] Trinny Woodall: there was nothing better in anyone else than the bestness of Johnny [12:46] Trinny Woodall: Maximize their using [12:46] Trinny Woodall: Minimize their drinking [49:48] Steven Bartlett: Chaos is stability and stability is chaos [51:43] Trinny Woodall: When will enough be enough? [41:00] Trinny Woodall: Protect the downside [41:00] Trinny Woodall: Maximize the upside

[18:03] Trinny Woodall's ex-husband: 99% of the things we worry about don't happen, but that 1% happened to us. [55:44] Trinny Woodall: When you're in your 20s and 30s... all your friends are doing that too... But when you're me, probably of my friends, maybe 80% of them, their life is slightly different from what I'm doing right now. [59:55] Trinny Woodall: I did 365 days a year... and then add up to more than the days of the year... Jane says to me, 'Trinny, we have to change. What do you not have to do?' [64:05] Steven Bartlett: Having got to understand you and what drives you... all the products are just a byproduct of exactly that... It's coming from a deep sense of mission that is so unbelievably authentic. [66:08] Trinny Woodall: I close my eyes because I need to feel your skin without judging you by looking at you... First thing I feel immediately is the congestion you have here right in the center. [70:18] Trinny Woodall: You just need three things... Better Off, Find Your Balance, and Energise Me. Those three things is what you're going to use.

[0:00] I look at your skin and I'm going to [0:01] come over now oh no then I go around [0:04] here turning Woodall beauty queen of the [0:07] screen founder and CEO of Trini London [0:09] one of the fastest growing companies in [0:11] Europe have a great day I went two [0:14] phases in my early 20s of not knowing [0:16] who I was and turning to drugs I went to [0:18] rehab I hope that you'd been kicked out [0:20] the first time for playing a porn video [0:21] Yeah it backfired we had was a huge [0:24] beginning of the change in my life and I [0:27] went into a whole new world following a [0:29] 20-year career in media Tony took a left [0:31] turn in the makeup industry here we are [0:33] 250 million dollars later welcome to [0:36] Trinity London a lot of people have this [0:38] stigma that you can't start a business [0:40] at 53 crap are you just just [0:43] number but you need energy passion [0:46] perseverance I sold my house hardly [0:48] earning any money but I thought I'm [0:49] never going to give up ask yourself how [0:51] much do you want to be successful what [0:53] are you prepared to give up you strike [0:54] me some that's incredibly driven what's [0:56] the cost very big question probably [0:58] oddly [1:01] you had a partner who was unwell yeah [1:03] and the thing you think will never [1:05] happen happens he died by Suicide yeah [1:09] yeah where do you get to in your brain [1:11] when you are so worried about your [1:13] children that you can convince yourself [1:14] that the best thing is that you're not [1:16] in their life anymore [1:21] was there anything I could have done [1:23] stop it [1:33] I think this is fascinating I looked at [1:36] the back end of our YouTube channel and [1:38] it says that since this channel started [1:40] 69.9 percent of you that watch it [1:43] frequently haven't yet hit the Subscribe [1:45] button so I have a favor to ask you if [1:48] you've ever watched this Channel and [1:49] enjoyed the content if you're enjoying [1:50] this episode right now please can I ask [1:52] a small favor please hit the Subscribe [1:53] button helps this channel more than I [1:55] can explain and I promise if you do that [1:57] to return the favor we will make this [2:00] show better and better and better and [2:02] better and better that's the promise I'm [2:04] willing to make you if you hit the [2:05] Subscribe button do we have a deal [2:06] [Music] [2:11] pretty [2:12] [Music] [2:15] you've got a very um [2:17] distinct Personality yeah [2:19] you and you know that you're well aware [2:21] of that right [2:23] I know who I am [2:26] but your personality is very [2:29] you're very straightforward yeah [2:32] um and all of these sort of defining [2:33] traits of your personality and I'm [2:35] wondering if that was when that [2:37] personality was formed or when it [2:39] started to emerge [2:41] things happen in your life that that [2:44] begin to you know fine-tune and Define [2:47] who you're going to be and I went [2:49] definitely through phases you know I [2:50] went through phases in my late teens [2:53] early 20s of of turning to drugs just to [2:56] not being happy with who I was not not [2:59] feeling not knowing who I was sometimes [3:01] people turned to drugs because they just [3:03] don't know who they are and they want to [3:06] you know they have an inner lack of [3:07] confidence and I definitely had an inner [3:09] lack of confidence and outwardly [3:11] when I talk to people and I look back at [3:14] the time they might say [3:15] you just were this very mesmerizing [3:18] person and I just remember that internal [3:20] sense of feeling [3:22] so lost so profoundly lost and [3:28] so when I got clean at 26 27 [3:33] that was a huge beginning of the change [3:35] in my life I was so relieved that my 20s [3:38] were over so relieved because it you [3:40] know it was like that was the beginning [3:41] of that that's wash that away [3:45] and that was a big moment for me to [3:48] begin to [3:50] work out who I was that was the first [3:52] moment probably you're [3:53] um using drugs at 16 I presume was quite [3:55] a recreational thing yeah I think we all [3:58] dabbled yeah at that age [4:00] um when did it when did you realize that [4:02] it wasn't a recreational thing anymore [4:03] and that it was an addiction [4:06] I think [4:09] I was about 22 and [4:14] I felt my life didn't have Direction and [4:16] my my family were very frustrated with [4:19] me they felt I changed and like any [4:21] family where they have a child who has [4:23] addiction they they can if they don't [4:27] know they just see change and they think [4:28] why is my child changing [4:30] you know so [4:32] I think they saw that and it was a [4:35] relief [4:36] to say you know I I use drugs and I [4:39] remember my dad said well now you've [4:41] told me you can stop and I remember my [4:43] brother saying I think it might be [4:44] harder than that [4:46] so [4:47] I went to rehab and [4:50] I then left the rehab after a period of [4:53] time and [4:55] you left the rehab yeah no I was kicked [4:58] out the First Rehab but I then [5:00] went to meetings [5:02] and there's one thing about recovery is [5:05] that [5:06] when you first get in recovery you [5:09] you need to let go of your old friends [5:11] who you've been with who are using and [5:14] you're about to make new friends so that [5:16] moment is [5:19] loneliness can take you back to Old [5:21] habit after about I don't know maybe six [5:24] months [5:25] I missed my old friends and I hadn't [5:28] made enough new ones and I saw them and [5:29] then you know I [5:32] relapsed [5:34] and then I went back to meetings and [5:37] then you're in this horrible little [5:38] in-between place [5:40] when you know about recovery [5:43] and you continue to use [5:46] it's not so there's something about an [5:49] ignorance of recovery you know there's a [5:51] kind of sense that [5:53] you don't know there's another way so [5:55] you don't feel guilty every time you do [5:58] and so what it brings is it brings guilt [6:00] every single time [6:01] I had three really really good friends [6:04] and we were all using one night and we I [6:07] said [6:08] let's all [6:10] make a pack we'll go to rehab tomorrow [6:11] and two of them had been and one of them [6:14] had never been but we made this Pact [6:16] late night you know that thing we're [6:19] going to do this we're going to conquer [6:20] the world and we're going to go to rehab [6:21] so then the next morning [6:24] I woke up and I still had that feeling [6:27] which is rare [6:29] so I called a therapist that I knew and [6:32] I said I need to go but I have a window [6:34] of opportunity which is so small [6:36] I need to go literally in the next two [6:38] hours because I am scared of myself that [6:39] I'll change my mind [6:41] so he got me in somewhere and stayed [6:45] there for five months and I sold [6:48] what I had to pay for it some very [6:51] tragic thing happens in that time and [6:53] one of the people died and then [6:56] one of the people that said they're [6:58] going to go to rehab with you yeah and [7:00] then [7:01] I went to a halfway house in Western [7:02] supermarket [7:04] seven months where you kind of live off [7:07] eight to ten pounds a week which pays [7:09] for your [ __ ] and I worked in old [7:11] people's home [7:13] and I came back to London [7:15] a very different person and then in that [7:18] following year [7:20] another one and died and then by the end [7:22] of two years they'd all died [7:25] so [7:27] I think I always had [7:29] this feeling [7:32] whatever I might do [7:34] you know I might do many things again [7:36] but I will not take drugs again and you [7:38] do that in recovery you do it a day at a [7:39] time and since that day I have never [7:41] taken a drug again and [7:44] that was that that's probably that [7:46] biggest shift I had at that age to [7:49] really think now I have the second [7:50] chance [7:52] what do I actually want to do with my [7:53] life [7:54] you know what not what I feel other [7:56] people expect me to do [7:58] if I was a flower on the wall in your [7:59] life at at your when the addiction had [8:02] you the most what would I have seen [8:05] you wouldn't have seen anything that I [8:07] was feeling inside [8:09] because that's what I was very good at [8:12] so outwardly [8:13] you would kind of think you know I [8:15] worked in the city I was trading [8:17] Commodities I was I held down a job you [8:20] know you would see this person who [8:22] seemed to be running around doing a lot [8:24] of stuff you would see that [8:28] yeah so mine wasn't [8:31] jacking up in the streets not being able [8:33] to function on a daily basis [8:38] um [8:38] but it was one where [8:42] appearances were so important compared [8:44] to you know so that matching your [8:46] Insight to your outside is probably my [8:49] biggest Journey you know of how can I [8:52] what I feel inside is how I share with [8:55] you now and you know I am 59 and that's [8:58] where I've got to I have a lot more to [9:00] do but I it took me a journey to get to [9:03] a place where I feel [9:06] very comfortable in that feeling and in [9:08] that belief [9:10] matching the inside with the outside so [9:12] the outside I would have seen someone [9:13] who was very busy and apparently you [9:16] know professionally successful in the [9:17] city not feeling it but sort of acting [9:20] it you know that I mean oh my God we [9:21] know that one and then make the CV acted [9:24] you know be kind of big up the job that [9:27] was actually smaller than it was all of [9:29] that [ __ ] and then on the inside [9:31] feeling [9:33] feeling [9:36] you know I hate to say the word because [9:39] I hate I hate labels imposter syndrome [9:41] is the worst can I just say it's the [9:43] worst label it's the worst label ever [9:44] because it what it denotes is that you [9:46] are an imposter [9:48] um for how it's used for now so to me [9:51] imposter syndrome is more that you [9:53] haven't yet learned enough and if you [9:54] learn something you won't feel so much [9:56] of an imposter this [9:59] is what imposter syndrome is [10:02] what I'm referring to it's that feeling [10:04] where [10:05] you are so different on the inside from [10:08] what you project on the outside that you [10:11] are an imposter inside your own body [10:13] and that to me is what I think imposter [10:15] syndrome is what's the what's the cost [10:17] of that [10:19] that at some stage [10:21] you can't keep doing it and you have [10:24] something has to give [10:26] and something always has to give and and [10:28] it's whether it's which path you're [10:30] going to take you know [10:32] because there'll be a lot of people [10:33] listening now that are in a job or a [10:35] situation where they they have that [10:37] feeling that niggling feeling that we're [10:39] in the wrong place yeah [10:41] they might be held there by social [10:44] groups or expectation from their parents [10:47] or whatever it might be but something's [10:48] holding them there yeah maybe fear of [10:50] uncertainty I would say if somebody is [10:52] listening to this and they're thinking [10:54] do I have little bits just ask yourself [10:57] you know do you love what you do it's a [10:59] job you're in if we're talking about [11:00] work do you love what you do do you like [11:02] this environment of where you work [11:04] do you feel people make a better [11:07] contribution than you you know [11:09] because that's what's making you feel [11:11] insecure if so [11:13] what do you feel when people have [11:15] meetings that you don't know [11:17] go and [ __ ] learn it Go and learn it [11:19] Go and listen to podcasts go read some [11:22] books just learn it because knowledge [11:25] is is powerful and when you have [11:27] knowledge and you walk in a room you [11:30] automatically think I have so much more [11:31] to contribute [11:33] if I answer one of those that I [11:35] challenge myself and I go I don't like [11:36] where I'm working and I don't like it [11:38] yeah and I'm you know a Commodities [11:40] Trader in the city for example and I [11:41] just I hate it yeah [11:43] leave it but have a plan but leave it [11:47] like if you hate what you do we spent 16 [11:50] hours a day between commuting or if [11:53] you're in a higher position thinking [11:54] about the company working we spend much [11:57] more of a day working than sleeping [11:59] so you gotta love it you've got to love [12:02] it you know I was like in my early 20s I [12:04] was one woman 64 men on a trading four [12:08] and I hated it and I dressed in men's [12:10] clothing and I went to Rosetti and got [12:12] the men's shoes and I got the tailor to [12:14] make me a suit or the man would drop [12:16] their trousers in the on the training [12:17] floor but I'd go in the ladies room and [12:19] get you know I'd pretend to have a deep [12:21] voice I was on the phone selling [12:22] anglo-american fun so my client thought [12:24] I was a man I mean you know I did all [12:27] this stuff I haste it so much Stephen [12:29] and I would go I would take the tube to [12:32] Tower Hill we would the World Trade [12:34] Center in London [12:35] it has Financial Times on the outside [12:37] and the Daily Mail on the inside that [12:40] was my full extent of who I was [12:42] and you know I left it were you an [12:46] attention seeker more generally in life [12:49] because when I heard that you'd been [12:51] kicked out of rehab the first time for [12:52] playing a porn video yeah I thought [12:56] that that was that was a a funny one [13:01] but not funny in the end [13:03] um [13:04] it was a terrible rehab I was with [13:06] somebody [13:08] um uh [13:10] to [13:12] last night in New York [13:14] and we were going to this funeral as [13:16] this friend of mine who was like 43 [13:18] years sober and um [13:21] I discovered I've been to the same place [13:22] with her and um same rehab yeah but at [13:27] different times and she just said you [13:29] know [13:31] it was the most fundamentally shaming [13:33] place ever [13:34] in rehab now are very different but it [13:36] was a very very shaming place [13:39] and [13:42] it will be closed down now it wasn't it [13:45] didn't have a good way of dealing with [13:46] things so in that whole scenario [13:51] there was definitely that feeling that [13:53] you're you're you're thrown in with [13:55] people you don't know and you reveal [13:57] your life and it was a time when [14:01] you would write down your life story and [14:04] then [14:04] in rehabs nowadays because I visit [14:07] friends in them or whatever you would [14:09] kind of people [14:11] help you navigate why you did things in [14:13] your life but in this one they did the [14:15] stuff where they would get 20 people to [14:18] critique how bad your life had been in a [14:21] room [14:22] and and judge you for it and it was I [14:25] mean just like looking back on it now at [14:27] the time that was the only way recovery [14:28] worked in rehabs in the UK but it was [14:31] just it was kind of [ __ ] appalling [14:33] and she reminded me last night so when [14:36] you bring up this thing of that of that [14:38] um [14:38] porno film and I think it was that sense [14:41] of let me just do something that people [14:43] will find funny because we're having [14:44] such a shitty time here and it backfired [14:46] and it was just you know I was tucked [14:48] out what I have been able to pinpoint is [14:50] the because at least from the outside [14:53] looking in your life was you know you [14:54] had a great job you had this um [14:56] addiction which didn't seem to interfere [14:58] with your work so you know when I sit [15:00] here with someone like Macklemore or [15:01] Russell Brand or even I remember [15:03] speaking to Stevo they talk about their [15:05] addictions and you know he was he was on [15:08] a I don't know four or five day heroin [15:10] binge and he drove a car he said he's [15:12] gonna I think he drove a car through a [15:13] house and then yeah he was threatening [15:15] to jump out the window yeah when you [15:16] know he ultimately ended up in rehab but [15:19] it didn't seem I can't identify the [15:21] symptoms that drove you to go I can't do [15:23] this anymore [15:25] I think we have [15:28] everyone has a different story [15:31] externally of I did this and I did this [15:35] and there's a bit of [15:36] I did even more than you you know [15:38] there's this whole thing in that you [15:42] know addicts maximize their using and [15:44] alcoholics minimize their drinking [15:46] all right and that's why [15:49] our colleagues can take longer to get [15:51] into sobriety and and addicts can take [15:53] shorter because also drugs can kill you [15:55] quicker [15:57] um so there are there's that kind of you [15:59] know and I think also [16:02] I don't know it's it's different but um [16:06] maybe I don't talk so much about the [16:08] crazy things I did [16:10] oh okay yeah [16:13] because I think we all do crazy things [16:15] yeah yeah and [16:18] um but I [16:20] I feel that I have a daughter who's 19. [16:24] sure and I wouldn't talk about crazy [16:26] things I did yeah okay so we move on [16:29] from there and then the next sort of 10 [16:30] 15 years of your life you have this [16:31] media career how aligned were you of [16:33] this chapter of your life um so when I [16:35] did TV and writing [16:38] I really love that I think what was very [16:40] nice is we developed this these women [16:43] who found us a breath pressure I love [16:46] the fact that [16:48] people would say oh you know I read your [16:52] book and it's changed how I think about [16:53] myself or you know and at the time when [16:55] we look back at What Not to Wear it's a [16:56] very divisive show at the time [17:00] it made a lot of women and women that I [17:03] meet now who watch the show at the time [17:06] tell me the impact it had on them to [17:09] think about themselves differently but I [17:11] enjoyed it I enjoyed traveling around [17:13] England and making over women and having [17:16] that journey and over you know over a [17:18] week you saw the metamorphosis of a [17:20] person you work with and you saw them at [17:22] the beginning and at the end and then we [17:23] kept in touch with many of the women and [17:25] then you would hear about their [17:27] marriages and their babies and they're [17:28] life-changing and and that you knew [17:30] there was a tiny contribution you'd made [17:32] to that switch in them turning the [17:35] switch on to feel different why did it [17:38] end at the show we'd gone from doing [17:41] series of thought I see with icba yeah [17:43] and writing a book a year to doing three [17:46] or four shows I took on average about 55 [17:49] flights a year I left London on a Sunday [17:51] night I came back on a Friday I had a [17:53] seven-year-old daughter [17:55] and I had a partner who wasn't always [17:59] well [18:00] so it was just at a stage where I [18:03] thought I need to readjust how my [18:06] personal life is and I need to think [18:08] what can I do now because this doesn't [18:11] work I had a partner that wasn't always [18:13] well I remember reading a line in your [18:15] book where you said 99 of the things we [18:17] worry about don't happen but that one [18:19] percent happened to us and he said it to [18:22] me is that what he said to you yeah [18:24] he would always say it I mean I always [18:26] remind Lila what did Dada say when she's [18:28] worried about stuff [18:31] and he said he's the one that said the [18:32] 99 of things we were about don't [18:34] actually happen yeah [18:36] I had a partner who was unwell unwell in [18:38] what way addiction [18:39] he was addicted to yeah [18:43] yeah and you you met him when you were [18:46] 35 no no I met him when I got clean I [18:51] met him when I was 27. oh you got [18:53] married when you were 35 yeah [18:55] and he was in recovery [18:56] oh okay [18:59] so okay when you're younger you [19:02] um went through recovery he went through [19:04] recovery as well but then relapsed he [19:07] had a motorbike accident [19:09] and he was very badly hurt and he took [19:11] painkillers [19:14] and got addicted to the painkillers [19:18] what is what is what is that like [19:19] because people think of painkillers that [19:22] don't know addiction to painkillers and [19:23] they think of paracetamol or something [19:25] my only experience with painkillers is [19:27] taking a paracetamol maybe four years [19:28] ago [19:29] I think when you're in a relationship [19:31] with somebody [19:33] who has a form of addiction [19:36] there's an unpredictability and an [19:38] inconsistency [19:39] in how they turn off every day [19:47] and I think in any [19:50] times when it's not great [19:54] you end up [19:57] to an extent having the crumbs off the [19:59] table it's like you're so holding on to [20:01] those moments when everything's good [20:04] that you try and ignore [20:06] what isn't working [20:10] and at the same time I was thinking [20:11] about well you got married in the year [20:13] that you were starting your business [20:14] your tech company it's a lot to deal [20:16] with if you've got a partner at home [20:18] that you're married to that is [20:19] struggling with addiction you're [20:20] starting a business yeah but they were [20:22] well at that time okay yeah they were [20:24] well at that time they had periods [20:26] definitely through our through our [20:28] marriage where they were well [20:29] really well [20:31] the relationship breaks down [20:33] yeah you get divorced yeah [20:36] you go your Separate Ways you remain [20:39] close yeah [20:41] and then [20:42] Johnny ultimately passes away around the [20:45] time when you finish before you start [20:47] Trini London but around the time when [20:49] you finish What Not to Wear and you [20:51] separate from Susan yeah I separate from [20:53] Susanna and I started working on I'd [20:57] started working on Trinity London yeah [21:00] but I was still filming abroad I was [21:02] still doing Telly shows abroad but I was [21:04] also working on the business [21:06] and you were close to him yeah still [21:08] even though you had separated yeah [21:10] yeah we spoke every day on the phone [21:12] every day yeah [21:16] he passes away when you're 50. [21:19] yeah [21:21] how does that change things in your life [21:28] um [21:30] strangers you become a single parent [21:34] um [21:37] the thing you think will never happen [21:39] happens [21:41] so it's a wake-up call just for [21:45] life [21:46] and how you see life [21:56] it took me a long time to grieve because [21:59] he left a mess [22:01] when he died which I had to kind of deal [22:04] with it yeah Financial mess just yeah [22:08] just a mess and so [22:11] it preoccupies you to not then actually [22:14] just think about what you miss in [22:16] somebody [22:18] you know it just you focus on what [22:20] you've got to do you go on to autopilot [22:22] you think of the kind of things you've [22:25] got to deal with [22:27] and [22:32] probably oddly [22:36] I moved in March and that was the first [22:39] time I remember [22:42] Lila went away [22:44] and it was first time in [22:46] 35 years I'd been on my own in-house [22:52] and I grieved for Johnny [22:56] all those years later [23:03] did something trigger that no I think [23:05] it's just you need [23:06] as long as you need space you need to [23:10] you know he died there was a mass I then [23:13] starting the business [23:15] I was living in a house I couldn't [23:16] afford to live in I had to sell it for [23:18] lots of reasons one of them [23:21] you know for that reason and [23:24] there was so much I was so many sort of [23:26] fires I was dealing with [23:28] and [23:31] and then I was you know trying to start [23:33] the business [23:35] trying to guide Lila to you know be okay [23:40] so there was a lot of years of that and [23:43] then another life change of just [23:45] deciding I want to live on my own [23:47] then brought up in a way [23:51] to be able to just [23:53] feel some things that I hadn't really [23:55] let myself feel and I think sometimes in [23:57] life [23:58] we know we're not [24:00] in that part of that strong enough to [24:03] feel that feeling and move forward and [24:06] we have to be in the right situation and [24:07] give ourselves that right breathing [24:09] space to be able to feel the fullness of [24:11] that feeling without judgment or guilt [24:15] or remorse you know because all the [24:18] other ones are so connected to [24:22] situations externally and it's very [24:25] difficult to get to a situation where [24:26] you're not bringing all the external [24:29] factors in and you're just feeling how [24:32] you feel about somebody [24:34] what was the fullness of that feeling in [24:36] that moment [24:42] I think [24:43] um [24:51] there was nothing there's nothing better [24:55] in anyone else than the bestness of [24:57] Johnny [25:00] if that makes sense [25:02] and I missed it [25:10] the circumstances of his death are [25:13] particularly complicated because he he [25:17] didn't die by natural causes he died by [25:19] Suicide [25:21] and having sat here and spoken to people [25:24] who've lost a partner or an ex in such a [25:27] way [25:29] um the feelings uh from what I've seen [25:32] are much more complicated [25:36] I think anyone dying [25:38] who dies unexpectedly [25:40] whether from illness or anything it's [25:47] somebody is gone you know that's that's [25:49] the biggest fundamental of anything the [25:52] circumstances [25:56] Drive how differently people deal with [25:58] death so you know some [26:02] members of his family wanted to believe [26:04] there was a conspiracy theory some you [26:06] know you you suddenly have [26:09] 101 kind of [26:12] views on things and stuff that really [26:16] confuses and complicates the fact that [26:19] somebody has gone you know they've gone [26:21] nothing is going to bring them back they [26:22] have gone [26:25] but it leaves more questions [26:27] and then you look at [26:31] your part in something [26:33] you know and that's [26:36] every person who has had somebody commit [26:40] suicide at some stage will say [26:43] was anything I could have done stop it [26:45] you know that's the first thing [26:47] for sure [26:48] if you love somebody [26:50] um [26:52] and the more I have learned about [26:55] suicide the more that [26:58] you know that when people [27:01] when people will talk about wanting to [27:04] kill themselves [27:08] I'm not saying it happens less [27:09] frequently than people who don't but [27:11] once somebody makes a decision [27:14] that that's what they're going to do [27:15] they don't talk about it [27:18] you know [27:21] and you'd like to feel you'd pick up on [27:23] it [27:25] but [27:26] I think it's the hardest lesson to learn [27:29] but when you [27:30] then come across people where you feel [27:34] that you now pick up on [27:36] those [27:38] not saying things that [27:41] there's a lot of internalizing going on [27:43] and should you be reaching out and just [27:47] talking getting them to talk because [27:51] people get themselves to a stage where [27:53] they feel it's the only solution [27:56] and [27:57] what's staggering is [27:59] Johnny had hyper vigilance around his [28:02] children because he'd been in the [28:04] Israeli Army and he was paramedic and he [28:06] had a really it was really tough [28:09] the situation [28:11] and he he had from it post traumatic [28:14] stress disorder [28:15] which wasn't [28:17] um acknowledged you know it wasn't [28:18] diagnosed until about 20 years later but [28:21] one of the things was hyper vigilance [28:23] around his children so he had he was [28:24] always so you know worried for their [28:27] welfare [28:29] so you kind of have this thing of [28:32] where do you get to in your brain [28:35] when you are so worried about your [28:37] children [28:39] that you can convince yourself the best [28:41] thing for your children who you love [28:43] profoundly [28:45] is that you're not in their life anymore [28:50] and that [29:03] is something that [29:07] is so important that we can help people [29:10] who get to that situation that they [29:12] don't get to that final part of that [29:13] situation [29:18] and it's understanding what to recognize [29:20] is understanding you know [29:22] and it's very hard to recognize you know [29:25] I didn't recognize [29:27] and there were lots of [29:35] details of it which [29:40] could have really upset me you know of [29:42] things that [29:44] were done wrong just were just like [29:47] police stuff that was done you know lots [29:49] of things which you could hold on you [29:50] can hold on to lots of things [29:56] but you kind of have to let go when I [29:58] see people who have family who have died [30:00] and they want to hold on to things [30:03] or get this thing you know and it's like [30:08] all those things you might hold on to [30:10] will prevent you to go through the [30:12] process of grieving [30:14] because it will hold you in this place [30:16] and time and you won't just be sitting [30:19] with that you know and you won't be able [30:21] to work through and you know when [30:22] somebody dies you need to work through [30:25] these stages [30:27] and acknowledge these stages but not get [30:29] stuck in something which eats you up [30:32] so even though there were all these [30:34] things [30:35] that kind of could have eaten me up [30:39] sort of new and I had a very good [30:41] there's a wonderful one called Julia [30:43] Samuel and she wrote this too shall pass [30:47] and another book called grief works I [30:49] don't know if you've ever had her on [30:49] your podcast she's an incredible [30:51] um [30:52] grief counselor [30:54] and [30:55] I saw her straight away she came to my [30:58] house when [31:02] when I knew and I hadn't yet told Lila [31:11] the first thing is you need to find the [31:13] words of what to say [31:18] gee [31:19] um was a friend of my sister and she [31:21] gave me words it's like you just feel so [31:25] like this [31:29] I'm at a good place with it now and I [31:31] think that final thing was [31:34] this the moment I by myself when Lila [31:36] went off and [31:38] for a week and I just I thought it came [31:41] very [31:42] I'm totally you know this is eight years [31:45] later [31:46] but things take time [31:50] so interesting how the the process of [31:52] grief that those first sort of eight [31:54] years where you kind of compartmentalize [31:56] or it's not the right time to address it [31:58] yet because there's other things going [31:59] on and then eight years later how it can [32:01] show up in a moment of like Solitude and [32:04] yeah in a moment of space and come out [32:07] it's interesting because I think there's [32:08] so many of us whether it's the grief of [32:10] losing someone or the grief of some [32:12] other form of trauma that we have it [32:14] compartmentalized and it might be [32:17] um impacting our lives in ways we don't [32:18] we don't understand I hear this a lot [32:21] when I speak to people about you know [32:22] their mood or you know they're a [32:25] slightly different person through that [32:26] period but until they were able to kind [32:28] of sit down and confront it and and go [32:30] through the process of grief they they [32:31] didn't realize that they'd it changed [32:33] them in some way [32:35] eight years later you have your moment [32:40] 53 years old you start [32:43] Trini yeah [32:46] big smile on your face [32:50] you know starting a business like that [32:52] at 53 a lot of people have a like a [32:55] stigma or a stereotype that you can't [32:57] start a business in midlife you know you [33:00] shouldn't be doing that at that point or [33:01] that you know you won't be able to raise [33:03] you know all of those kind of stigmas [33:04] around starting a business in midlife [33:05] crap crap yeah Turtle crap [33:09] I started a business at 16 called what's [33:12] my first business Bose unlimited when I [33:14] was at school I sold hair bows I know [33:16] um and then I started business at 53 so [33:18] it's like there's no other way to put it [33:20] that that age is is a number [33:23] it is just a [ __ ] number and you can [33:26] either mention that number endlessly or [33:29] you can look at [33:31] what energy do you have at that moment [33:33] in time to execute on your dream [33:37] that's all that's that's all you need [33:39] energy [33:41] all you need well you need a lot but you [33:43] know you need to feel that you need [33:45] energy passion Drive relentlessness [33:48] perseverance resilience [33:51] put yourself off and just get [ __ ] on [33:52] with it you need all of those things but [33:54] you need [33:56] the energy so that you jump out of bed [33:58] in the morning and you are on it [34:01] did it take time for you to cultivate [34:03] that in the process after after Johnny [34:05] passed was there like a do you know what [34:07] I mean because I did I did uh ready to [34:10] before and for that I was you know it [34:12] did 18-hour days for two and a half [34:15] years it's like it you know it's it's in [34:17] me that I've I've been a grafter for [34:19] quite a long time so you've been mulling [34:21] this idea for many many many years yeah [34:22] then [34:24] um [34:24] and then you finally put it into action [34:26] I I heard you say I started pitching in [34:28] 2014 and it took me three years to [34:30] launch yeah [34:31] I started pitching in 2013 I think [34:34] and what were you pitching I was [34:36] pitching what was the elevator pitch the [34:38] elevator pitch was [34:40] um to create portable [34:45] cream based [34:46] personalized makeup [34:48] for women [34:50] 35 Plus [34:52] and how was that pitch received [34:54] I did 48 pitches before one person fit I [34:58] must have sent 300 emails [35:00] what kind of uh negative feedback did [35:02] you get oh I had lots I had [35:04] um [35:05] I had you don't have enough followers [35:09] fine I had like I think 50 000 followers [35:11] then [35:12] um I had your two old starter business [35:15] I had who's going to really run the [35:17] business [35:18] come on oh that's a nice list I love [35:21] that one you live in this Neverland it's [35:23] not like it's never going to happen but [35:24] it's never going to happen but you don't [35:26] put words to either you sit like this [35:27] place and I had that feeling I thought [35:31] are people ever going to get it but I [35:33] thought I'm never going to give up so [35:34] they were both sat side by side really [35:36] starting why didn't you give up [35:37] because I knew it was a [ __ ] good [35:39] idea and I knew it would work I just had [35:41] to find the right people who would get [35:42] it but even selling you know everyone's [35:44] telling you to I don't care everyone's [35:45] telling me no I know and I know enough [35:47] and I believe in myself enough to know I [35:49] know it's a good idea I just know it I [35:53] just gotta find somebody who has the [35:54] vision to understand it how did you know [35:56] it though [35:57] because I know women [36:00] because I've made over 5 000 women in my [36:03] life because I know what women Miss I [36:05] know the frustration they feel at the [36:07] beauty counter I know that some of them [36:09] don't want to admit they don't know how [36:10] to do a smokey eye I know that some [36:12] women feel stuck but they don't know how [36:13] to articulate how do I do it again [36:15] because I don't want to seem silly in [36:17] front of my friends I know that some [36:19] women feel just [36:22] they could never do that was it [36:25] expensive to start the business yes what [36:26] were the personal sacrifices [36:28] there are phys there are Financial ones [36:31] and there are friendship ones did you [36:34] have to sell any tables let's start with [36:35] the finances no but I sold my house you [36:37] sold your house yeah I sold my house and [36:39] I'd kind of why because I couldn't [36:41] afford to stay in it [36:43] I had debt I had a big mortgage I had [36:46] kind of when I separated with Johnny I'd [36:48] wanted to get this house that I bought [36:50] that would enable me to walk my daughter [36:52] to school I just wanted this thing okay [36:54] like desperately so I bought this house [36:57] with a really big mortgage and I did [37:00] alone and I did it from scratch and it [37:04] was my dream every single little element [37:06] of this house I built did that make you [37:09] sad that realization because it seems [37:10] like the idea that I would have to leave [37:12] the house was something I thought about [37:15] every single day for six months and [37:16] thought what can I do to prevent it [37:18] because I've worked this hard for so [37:20] long to have this house I've always [37:23] wanted to own a house you know [37:27] but once you let go of it it's just a [37:31] [ __ ] house [37:35] and you think there's a bigger picture [37:37] and the bigger picture [37:39] maybe you could buy me five houses but [37:41] the bigger picture is [37:42] that there is a bigger picture not even [37:44] to look to the stage where you might be [37:46] able to buy a nicer house but it's like [37:48] I was on a mission Stephen I was on a [37:50] mission I thought I've got to make it [37:53] happen I can't not do this there was no [37:55] turning back I couldn't not start the [37:58] business so then it was what did I have [37:59] to do start the business because first [38:01] of all I sold all my clothes I did the [38:04] sale and I went on to Emily's List and I [38:06] EMILY's List is this and I was renting [38:08] out the house so I didn't care who came [38:10] my house I had like a thousand people [38:12] coming in my house buying clothes so I [38:15] raised in two sales 60 Grand because I [38:17] used to borrow I used to follow Gary [38:19] vaynerchuk and Gary was always like what [38:21] the [ __ ] can you sell in your house you [38:22] know you can sell your trainers you [38:23] won't spend a fortune on those people [38:25] who are saying oh whinging to Gary and [38:27] Gary saying sell something everyone has [38:29] something they can sell well how much do [38:32] you want the business how much do you [38:34] want to be successful and start the [38:35] business what are you prepare to give up [38:37] look at the long-term game was there any [38:40] doubt even a whisper of doubt I say this [38:42] in part because I look back on when I [38:44] started my business I was keeping diary [38:45] entries yeah um and I was I feel the [38:48] same as you there was no going back [38:50] there was definitely not plan B my [38:51] parents went there's no plan B yeah I'm [38:52] shoplifting pizzas at this point to pick [38:54] myself I'm like I can only go forward [38:56] right yeah I haven't paid my rent in [38:58] three months my rent is only 150 pounds [39:00] in rush home yeah um but then I and so I [39:02] will recount that moment of my life is I [39:05] I zoom in on the tenacity and the [39:07] certainty and this conviction yeah but [39:09] then I look at these diary entries and [39:10] on this day [39:12] I'm like doubting myself a little bit it [39:14] didn't last yeah but there was a there [39:15] was a day where it was like a rocky for [39:17] sure you know it's not all like the [39:20] thing is the overarching theme is I [39:23] can't go back yeah it shouldn't negate [39:25] the fact you're going to have doubt [39:27] you're going to question you know it's [39:29] like [39:30] doesn't think somebody will believe in [39:32] it but there was like another 10 [39:34] meetings and nobody has you know you [39:35] think yeah yeah and also at the end of [39:38] an investor present you when you present [39:39] to investors [39:41] the real questioning of your integrity [39:44] over your idea [39:46] is how much you decide what was [39:50] the last meeting they had in the room [39:52] which they brought that advice to your [39:54] meeting on a totally different business [39:56] to kind of talk about the market or I [39:58] mean the amount of times I've talked [40:00] about like you know it's about growth [40:02] it's not about retention it's about 70 [40:05] new customers 30 retention and I was [40:07] always saying no it's 60 retention 40 [40:10] growth but saying this when Casper [40:12] mattresses was going high-fly was like [40:14] nobody wants listen I know how then why [40:17] they didn't invest because their whole [40:18] thing was growth retention [ __ ] you [40:20] know and it's like retention is [40:22] everything you've got to download grow [40:23] you've got to have new customers but if [40:24] you don't have the Bedrock of retention [40:26] the kind of classic you know like [40:29] companies that don't do any publicity [40:31] like [40:33] um Five Guys or some companies that [40:35] haven't done much publicity they're [40:38] relying on the customer loving it [40:39] they're relying on getting new customers [40:41] from their customers you know they're [40:43] relying on the most classic Word of [40:45] Mouth moment but you've got to [40:48] build a company on cement and I felt at [40:51] the time these guys looking around [40:53] they're building it on quicksand you've [40:55] got to then leave that investor meeting [40:57] and think what do I take away [41:00] that's good advice so the advice I took [41:03] away to myself was if I'm in a room of [41:05] predominantly man [41:07] I want to go in and a female trait to me [41:10] as you want to paint the entire picture [41:11] you want to bring somebody into your [41:13] universe and you want to show them [41:15] everything [41:16] so they don't have one thing they can [41:18] hone in on to make sense of your [41:21] business and join the dots you don't [41:23] give them the dot Joiner so therefore [41:26] the thing I learned was to go in and say [41:28] look [41:29] we're starting with this [41:31] and from this I'm going to give you this [41:34] and then we'll get to that [41:36] and they're like okay and it's not many [41:39] slow and women are faster it's like [41:40] there is a fundamental difference in how [41:43] people need information delivered to [41:45] them so they can absorb it go yeah that [41:47] ticks my box and then be ready to listen [41:49] to the next bit of information and that [41:50] I didn't know I didn't know into the [41:52] 10th pitch and then in the 10th pitch or [41:54] whatever halfway through my pitching I [41:57] kind of thought actually what am I not [41:59] doing right here to convey because if I [42:01] believe this is a good idea if I believe [42:02] it has legs [42:04] what am I not getting through to them [42:06] that I need to and that's the vision of [42:09] the future kind of it's a bit the vision [42:10] of the future it's like there's a real [42:12] classic that if you are a woman [42:15] generally men if it's predominantly [42:18] males they will ask how do you protect [42:19] your downside and if I'm a man sitting [42:21] here they will say how do you maximize [42:22] your upside [42:24] it's a classic all right so when then so [42:27] just to explain for people that don't [42:28] understand [42:29] um downside is basically like how do you [42:31] how do you negate your risk yeah so so [42:33] you know how do you protect your risk [42:36] you know what happens if you have a [42:37] problem with the product what happens if [42:38] you can't find a customer what happens [42:39] if blah blah blah and maximizing the [42:42] upside is how you're going to scale how [42:44] you're going to make that business [42:45] bigger so [42:47] I thought I was like okay [42:49] so then when they would start to get to [42:52] that little thing I would say you know [42:54] what [42:54] these three ways like any business is [42:57] what I'll be doing now let us focus on [42:59] how I'm going to maximize the upside [43:02] and just kind of gently not insultingly [43:04] sometimes I was a little bit you know so [43:07] you became aware of their Prejudice and [43:10] would counteract it before they kind of [43:12] had a chance to use that as a way to [43:14] yeah you kind of want to bring in [43:16] conversation well but it took me a while [43:17] Stephen it took me because I had never [43:19] gone to you know when I did investor [43:21] presentations in 99 [43:23] I did five and I got it you know in [43:25] those two of them invested it was a very [43:27] different time and pitching a concept [43:30] how did you counteract the prejudice [43:33] that you knew was existing in those [43:35] pitch boardrooms [43:38] or did you how did you deal with it [43:40] because there's a part of me that [43:41] thought [43:43] like I went to one and he said I love [43:46] the idea but it will only be successful [43:48] if you do it for Millennials or gen Z [43:51] because they're the only people who are [43:53] going to buy like that because women of [43:55] of your age don't know how to buy makeup [43:57] online okay and at the time 26 of people [44:01] bought Beauty Online all right and of [44:03] that 26 maybe 15 were in the demographic [44:07] that I said [44:08] but I said I'm providing personalization [44:12] that will make a woman and I will talk [44:14] to women in a way of a language they [44:16] understand to think actually maybe if I [44:19] went online I'd be better diagnosed than [44:21] if I went in store because she has this [44:23] personalization and and then when it [44:26] launched and those very first few people [44:27] who had never shopped for makeup online [44:30] did it and thought this is better than [44:33] me going to Peach Jones [44:34] it was like [44:36] spread the word spread the word and it [44:38] built on itself but at that time when [44:39] the man from this uh VC was saying that [44:43] and I was like I left the room and I [44:46] thought I actually would not want this [44:47] person to invest in my business anyway [44:49] so there is that maturity you can get of [44:51] thinking because you've got to also you [44:54] know when you're going for money you [44:55] very much feel the powers in their hands [44:57] and there's got to be something you're [44:58] bringing through and where you think do [44:59] I want these people to invest in my [45:02] business and to get to a stage where [45:04] you're the one in a way on the back foot [45:05] because you're wanting the cash how can [45:07] you then say to yourself turn it around [45:10] you know do I want [45:13] these people in the business have they [45:15] got something to contribute and asking [45:18] them questions like what will you [45:20] contribute what do you do for your other [45:22] VCS I've spoken to a few you know you [45:24] have this big thing saying that you get [45:26] the CMOS together and whatever but do [45:28] you actually do that and how does that [45:30] happen to you and [45:31] how much is this business worth in your [45:34] perspective [45:35] don't give out valuations oh I read 180 [45:38] million online [45:40] it's [45:41] doing well though yeah what can you tell [45:44] me about the scale of the business to [45:45] give just to give us an inclination [45:47] we've you know grown [45:51] over 100 a year probably over five years [45:54] yeah we did [45:57] 50 something Million last year [46:00] um we uh we sell 180 countries [46:04] we started skincare year and a half [46:06] goats now [46:08] 38 of my Revenue [46:11] so it's growing quite quickly it has the [46:12] highest retention so when I look at the [46:15] business and I look at retention of [46:16] product [46:17] for me the value of the business [46:20] and look at what product bases there are [46:22] so that to me is an exciting place a [46:26] business is going to [46:28] um we're localizing in different [46:30] countries so there's one thing to be [46:32] sold internationally but then when you [46:35] localize it takes a lot of [46:38] um [46:40] personalization across yeah it does and [46:42] so we we did it when we're about 50 in [46:45] the UK and then we're about 23 in [46:48] Australia with 10 in America that is a [46:51] fantastic business yeah and I would like [46:53] to invest well when you think about your [46:55] character traits and what you bring to [46:57] the business what what is that and how [46:59] has that led the business to become [47:01] successful because I think in Founders [47:02] we talked earlier about focusing on the [47:03] thing you're good at yeah what is the [47:05] thing that Trinny is good at in this [47:07] business [47:08] I think I'm good at understanding how [47:11] women react to things and what they want [47:13] and how you speak to somebody so they [47:15] can hear it I think that's probably what [47:18] I know [47:20] better than anyone else in the company [47:21] how do you speak to someone so that they [47:23] hear it [47:25] well years ago I did Oprah an Oprah [47:27] taught me a lot and she was she is an [47:30] amazing woman but when I used to do her [47:32] shows [47:33] we would tell her stuff because we'd [47:34] just done a book and it'll become a [47:36] number one time bestseller in America [47:38] and it was like she helped us do that [47:39] but she would tell them stuff I'd said [47:42] and then she would repeat it three times [47:44] within that half an hour you just repeat [47:46] it repeat it and I said afterwards over [47:49] you you always repeat she said because [47:51] it registers [47:53] they get reminded [47:55] they remember [47:57] so that sense of [48:00] you say something [48:02] and you say it three times in maybe [48:04] three different ways so that by the end [48:07] of that conversation somebody walks away [48:09] with a new thought in their head so [48:11] there is that and I don't [48:13] consciously do that anymore I think at [48:15] the beginning I probably did because I [48:17] remember what she said and then it got [48:19] into a habit [48:20] but [48:21] and it's also remembering who you speak [48:23] to [48:24] because when you speak when I do [48:27] my contribution to to Trinity London of [48:30] on social [48:31] I could be speaking to many different [48:33] women I could be speaking to a nurse on [48:35] 18 Grand a year who saves up every month [48:37] to buy one thing [48:39] and I could be speaking to somebody who [48:41] could buy 10 things and choose to spy us [48:43] okay so it's quite a broad remit but [48:46] they all realize [48:49] because of what I was talking about the [48:51] importance of actually buying things [48:53] that really work for your skin and not [48:54] wasting your money and and not putting [48:57] things on that are bad for your skin I [48:59] don't mean bad like green I mean like [49:01] don't do anything for your skin or just [49:03] understanding what you should use is not [49:05] what your best friend should use [49:07] and because I've I had very bad acne I [49:10] mean like when you talked about your [49:11] turning off the light okay I used to [49:14] decide what restaurant do I go into like [49:15] if I was going out and as an 18 year old [49:18] and I had this lighting I would [49:20] literally say can we go to another [49:21] restaurant because you would see my acne [49:23] postures [49:25] um coming down and I would go like I'd [49:26] literally I'd be like this for dinner so [49:29] that obsession with my skin and the [49:32] effect it gave all my confidence and put [49:35] was a lot of what I put into when we [49:37] look at what ingredients are we going to [49:39] use and how are we going to use them and [49:40] we have a lab in England you know I'm [49:41] proud the fact we have a lab we make [49:43] things from scratch we're not like hey [49:45] let's put a label on here and say Trini [49:47] London you know are you proud of the [49:48] business very [49:50] are you proud of yourself [49:54] um [49:56] yes I am when I remembered I mean I get [49:59] when I remember to be no like you've [50:01] crossed your arms look at the body [50:02] language no [50:04] I am I don't [50:07] it's very easy to well I never get to a [50:09] place conceit [50:11] um many people are proud for me [50:14] and I sometimes find that challenging [50:18] it's like I want to move the [50:19] conversation on why I don't know I don't [50:22] I can't answer it and it's just a thing [50:24] you know but I'll have good friends of [50:26] mine who've known me a long time who [50:28] will [50:30] just say you know [50:32] very lovely things about having grown [50:35] the business I I often I'm gonna happen [50:37] how do you feel and so on because we got [50:39] it together because we must go through [50:40] it I'm asking questions but I I but you [50:43] also okay so give me your feedback well [50:45] when someone gives me a big compliment [50:47] at the same time they're also reminding [50:49] me of everything I could lose and so I [50:51] think my natural way of dealing with [50:53] things is as you've kind of described is [50:55] that forward motion that void Motion [50:57] makes me feel stable yeah so whenever [50:59] someone comes to me gives me a [51:00] compliment about something I've achieved [51:01] it's it's um I always say like [51:04] Chaos's stability and stability is chaos [51:06] it's a moment of stability that I don't [51:08] like like just the idea of of [51:10] accomplishment yeah creates a stability [51:13] that I don't like I want chaos I need [51:14] that forward motion to feel stable it's [51:17] a weird one because it's like a lot of [51:19] people would disagree with what you're [51:21] saying in terms in terms of you know [51:23] sort of a self-worth guru who's saying [51:25] you've got to you've got to you know [51:27] take a step to [51:29] a lot of friends who Satan you need to [51:31] take a moment to acknowledge how far [51:33] you've come [51:34] and I think what you're saying [51:37] is I'm just trying to grasp exactly your [51:40] thing of the chaos and stability and I [51:41] think I can explain it better yeah okay [51:44] so when when Olympians go to the [51:46] Olympics they come back even if they've [51:47] won a gold medal and they fall into a [51:49] depression I think they call it gold [51:50] medal depression the stats around that [51:51] are alarming I've read one article [51:53] that's where it said up to 80 of [51:54] Olympians post [51:56] um the Olympics feel that way [51:58] um I think that humans most of us anyway [52:00] maybe that's why we're in these [52:02] buildings with these amazing technology [52:04] have it within us to need to to it goes [52:07] back to what I said before we start [52:07] recording about progress yeah we need a [52:09] sense of Forward Motion we don't the [52:11] opposite of um what we don't want is [52:13] completed goals abundant resources and [52:15] nothing to strive for so maybe because [52:18] I'm particularly I was particularly [52:19] insecure as a child I need I get my [52:22] worth from the sense of forward motion [52:23] and accomplishment the thought of [52:25] stopping yeah and being done is a form [52:29] of psychological chaos it's a form of [52:31] purposelessness and so I think stability [52:34] is actually the forward motion the chaos [52:37] uncompleted goals the striving that's [52:39] one I feel most stable okay and when you [52:42] remove that something to strive for I [52:44] feel I feel which people would call [52:45] stability I feel chaos yeah [52:47] um but also I think for me and you there [52:50] is something [52:51] um [52:52] where our work is I know it for me [52:54] anyway is inherently linked at deep deep [52:56] level to our sense of self-worth yeah [52:58] and so [53:00] um [53:01] yeah it's quite I feel deeply [53:03] uncomfortable when I get a compliment [53:04] about [53:06] um the work we do or [53:08] um when people say that to me I'll use [53:09] your pause for a second and just think [53:11] about how far you've come yeah it's [53:12] robbing me of something yeah it's like [53:16] it is um [53:19] when will enough be enough [53:24] I don't know if enough should never ever [53:25] be enough [53:27] you should always have a little bit [53:30] because you see you live in chaos so I [53:32] ask you that question when will enough [53:34] be enough when will enough I will never [53:37] be sad as far I always think about that [53:40] um well I go back to what I said as I I [53:42] hope I hope there's no such thing as [53:43] enough in my mind yeah because so when [53:46] well enough answer your question when [53:47] will enough be enough it will never be [53:49] because enough is always going to mean [53:51] forward motion [53:53] so and progress enough I know because [53:57] success to me is forward motion and [53:59] progress so success can't therefore [54:02] possibly be any destination it is [54:05] it is challenge it is autonomy it is a [54:09] meaningful goal to strive towards and [54:11] it's doing it with people I love yeah [54:12] that's success for me okay and and so I [54:15] need challenge I need forward motion [54:16] with people I love High degree of [54:18] self-control yeah it's your life breath [54:20] yeah [54:21] as I'm doing it yeah yeah it is life [54:24] breath yeah it really is [54:27] as you know Zoe are a sponsor of this [54:30] podcast and I'm a big investor in the [54:31] company you guys know I'm really sitting [54:33] still because that's just the nature of [54:34] my life so whether I'm in a business [54:36] meeting with my investments or I'm [54:37] recording this podcast I'm always [54:39] running from A to B but the one promise [54:41] that I made to myself is to fuel my body [54:43] sufficiently and Zoe has been really the [54:46] key part of me succeeding in that [54:48] mission for those of you that don't know [54:49] I've been a Zoe member for about a few [54:51] months now ever since I had Zoe's [54:53] scientific co-founder Professor Tim [54:54] Spector on this podcast Zoe helps me to [54:56] understand how to make better food [54:58] choices for my long-term health and it's [55:00] all personalized to me eating the right [55:03] food is essential for me to keep me [55:04] going because some of my meetings are [55:05] often later in the day and so I need to [55:07] ensure that I keep my energy levels up [55:09] and Zoe allows me to understand which [55:10] foods work for me and which foods don't [55:12] eating the Zoe way I don't get that [55:14] dreaded afternoon crash and I feel great [55:17] so to get started with Zoe go to zoe.com [55:19] Steven and use my exclusive code [55:23] ceo10 for 10 off so many of you have [55:26] been asking me for a discount code here [55:27] it is [55:28] ceo10 go to zoe.com [55:31] Steven and use my exclusive code ceo10 [55:35] for 10 off and if you already use Zoe [55:37] send me a DM and let me know how you're [55:38] getting on what is success to you these [55:41] days like what is [55:42] what does success mean for you people [55:44] ask me that all the time as well but I [55:46] mean it's such a you know when you hear [55:47] that question I think oh [ __ ] so make it [55:50] specific like it's too generalistic so [55:52] what's if if I let's look look at the [55:56] next decade of your life okay if I say [55:58] if we meet again in 10 years time and I [55:59] say and you say to me that was a [56:01] successful decade all right well that's [56:02] a good way okay next 10 years success [56:04] Rebecca [56:06] um the one thing this is the only thing [56:09] where I will bring age into it right is [56:12] I am [56:14] 59. so when I'm 69 do I want to be [56:19] working so hard that I sort of Miss [56:22] friends birthdays and don't get to [56:25] you know take part in life of things [56:28] outside my work because that's a big one [56:30] like when you're in your 20s and 30s you [56:32] can kind of like all your friends are [56:34] doing that too you know and in that same [56:37] space so it doesn't matter if you say [56:40] look in a month we'll get together we'll [56:42] all go for a weekend somewhere because [56:43] you're all doing it so it's like you're [56:44] on this thing together but when you're [56:46] me probably of my friends maybe 80 of [56:50] them their life is slightly different [56:52] from what I'm doing right now [56:54] so [56:56] and that element of that friendship and [56:59] this connection with people is [57:01] fundamentally crucial to our feeding [57:04] ourselves you know and there's always [57:07] that you know guy who not had American [57:10] Express but he's like you know will I be [57:12] remembered for how hard I worked you [57:13] know on the grapes and there's that [57:15] classic corny thing of like well they [57:16] remember how hard you know it's like [57:17] they won't but whenever I read that I [57:21] think but they just had a nine-to-five [57:22] job and this is a passion you know I [57:24] always say that I think this is so [57:25] different because this is [57:27] because if I [57:29] if it was just a job [57:31] I'd probably say you know I should slow [57:32] down a bit whatever but I travel the [57:34] world [57:35] I help a lot of people around the world [57:37] I meet a lot I was in Birmingham [57:40] um what about work-life balance yes but [57:42] this is the thing [57:43] it's like [57:45] I don't see my job as a job and then [57:47] there's work-life balance because [57:49] there's areas of my job which should be [57:51] sociable things so I I meet people I [57:53] have conversations women every day you [57:56] know on this you know social media thing [57:59] which is now a few few million people [58:01] I have [58:03] these women who know me really well it's [58:07] so interesting how you think oh but I [58:09] haven't seen you know I have my friends [58:10] who have known me since I've been my [58:12] teens but I have these women who are [58:14] part of the Trinity tribe they could be [58:16] anywhere in the world but [58:18] they know me so well that like I might [58:20] do a little live and they'll DM me say [58:22] Trinny sense this this morning are you [58:24] okay do you need to take a breath you [58:26] know and then when I sh I shared this [58:29] you know that John had died and [58:32] um and so you know they were you know [58:34] they sent [58:36] thousands of messages and I read I read [58:39] everything people sent because if people [58:41] make the effort to write a message and [58:43] on my Instagram I respond to everything [58:45] you know I we have a team of 11 people [58:47] who we had like 12 000 comments a week [58:49] between London stuff but I do all my [58:51] Instagram because that's the Beating [58:53] Heart of the women in my life [58:56] and [58:58] the feeling people are feeling you know [59:00] whenever you have a business you need to [59:02] understand what is the feeling people [59:04] are feeling so in England we have a big [59:07] cost of living crisis I still want to [59:09] give people quality products that are [59:11] premium so with all these things going [59:14] on how do I [59:16] sense check [59:18] this thing how do I adapt the [59:21] conversation so that [59:23] it still is relevant to their life and [59:28] they're just so going back to work like [59:30] balance like they [59:33] helped me to sit for a second and like [59:36] one of them sent this message three days [59:39] I said Trini [59:40] you have to remember [59:42] to feel what you're going through right [59:44] now because you don't usually you just [59:46] rusher it and you need to do it this [59:48] woman I've never met before ever okay [59:52] but they're just incredible women and so [59:55] my when you when you talk about a [59:57] business all right and you talk about [59:58] starting a business [60:01] my business [60:03] is this passion for these women [60:06] to feel great and and are sort of you [60:09] know you always have these what's your [60:11] vision board and what's your mission of [60:12] the company but it's literally to leave [60:13] a woman feeling better about herself [60:16] than before she came into contact with [60:18] me with Fearless with the podcast with [60:20] Trinity London with whatever so that's [60:22] my mission I am here for a mission I [60:24] know that sounds like whatever but I am [60:27] I know I am you know I know I am I know [60:30] that when like I know that during covert [60:33] when there were people feeling in a full [60:36] family of people fundamentally so alone [60:39] as women [60:41] I knew how important it was that we [60:43] should get up and we should chat to each [60:45] other I knew it was just to like really [60:48] chat really like share the [ __ ] share [60:51] the feelings so they could go [60:52] me too me too you know so it's 69 then [60:56] you're saying that you're going to slow [60:57] down and retire and have pina coladas on [60:59] the beach no I didn't say that at all [61:02] did I ever say that so 69. no so you [61:05] just said to me in the next 10 years so [61:06] the next thing what's success look like [61:07] it's that this community grows because [61:09] the more women who feel like this would [61:11] tell more women and I would like at the [61:13] moment maybe we have a million women and [61:15] I would like that to be in the next 10 [61:17] years 15 million women actually so that [61:19] I'm going to put that number out there [61:20] I'm going to now remember it I'd like [61:22] that many women because if you can get [61:23] to that many women but then how are you [61:26] gonna I said that because you talked [61:28] about changing the balance a little bit [61:30] so you could be there for your social [61:31] connections a bit more yeah your friends [61:33] yeah if you've got a goal of 15 million [61:35] women so how am I growing this business [61:38] where I have people in place who can do [61:42] things that I can do better than me so [61:44] that you can go and do so I can do even [61:47] more of what only I can do yeah in the [61:49] business [61:50] because at the moment I did this thing [61:52] the other day and I [61:54] did this thing with my co and a board [61:56] member and I did like 365 days a year [61:58] all right and we divided up because we [62:01] need to like see because people it's [62:03] very difficult to get meetings in with [62:04] it so he's like okay [62:06] there are six full days a year I do [62:09] board meetings there are 12 days a year [62:11] I do investor stuff so we had a little [62:13] laugh or whatever and then add up to [62:15] more more than the days of the year okay [62:17] because I haven't taken that much [62:18] holiday so Jane says to me lovely Jane [62:22] she goes Trini this we have to change so [62:25] she said okay what do you not have to do [62:28] you know how could we move to a place [62:30] slowly where [62:32] you don't do this you do this and you do [62:35] this so much about it's like [62:36] you must talk to tons of people about [62:38] when you have your best ideas all right [62:40] we have our best ideas when we are [62:43] not further removed from the chaos [62:44] because you love this chaos but we're [62:46] we're removed enough that things have [62:48] the room to Bubble to the top so I do [62:51] Michael's car map every morning all [62:54] right and I just started doing this [62:55] other one on the the one with the half [62:57] Bowl in or something you know that [62:59] really good one and there's this guy [63:00] David G and it was discussed at [63:03] Massachusetts state hospital they did [63:05] some research that you listen to his [63:07] meditation for 59 days and it changes [63:10] your neural Pathways like ketamine might [63:12] okay it's really I'm anywhere I'm day 43 [63:15] okay quite into it but [63:17] when I give myself that little space [63:22] the really good ideas for the business [63:23] come up and the more I'm just doing [63:26] running the business running the [63:27] business [63:28] the less we're going to have of those [63:31] and I need to give the business the best [63:33] of me so it's 69 do you think you're [63:35] gonna be working less [63:36] differently differently more space for [63:39] more creativity yeah and you know [63:41] traditional just saying yeah I'll take a [63:43] Friday off and go and go for a weekend [63:46] somewhere and things like that yeah [63:48] because you know do you be able to go [63:49] for a weekend without thinking about the [63:51] business yeah I did actually can I just [63:52] tell you for the first time in five [63:54] years I went away for five days [63:57] two weeks ago and I only did like eight [64:00] emails which was just [64:02] great [64:05] you wrote this wonderful book Fearless [64:07] it's really really surprising [64:09] it's surprising [64:11] did you read any of it yet yes I went [64:13] through it but you did and I read the [64:14] entire section on life the other [64:15] sections about beauty and star were a [64:16] little bit more tricky but I read [64:18] everything in the live section about [64:19] that's where I got some of those quotes [64:20] from and uh the stuff about imposter [64:22] syndrome and self-belief and all of [64:23] those things it is a a life advice book [64:26] it is a beauty advice book it is a style [64:28] advice book [64:30] um and it's just a gorgeous coffee table [64:32] style the thing is this is me okay yeah [64:35] because I [64:38] hate looking at pictures of myself so [64:40] the whole point of doing this book was [64:41] to say you hate looking at pictures of [64:43] yourself I hate [ __ ] hungry is I just [64:45] do so this is the book you'll have on [64:47] your coffee table [64:49] can you see so nice like just it will [64:52] make you pick it up more [64:54] because it's biased to have my face on [64:56] the front this is not bias [64:59] ah no that is beautiful and it's a nice [65:01] little message as well yeah to have a [65:03] statement about yourself like yeah [65:06] you know what's funny when I'm when [65:08] people come on the show and they have a [65:09] product I I often try and spend some [65:11] time [65:12] um talking about their products and [65:13] stuff but the thing the thing in this [65:15] case is [65:16] having got to understand you yeah and [65:19] what drives you and having felt how [65:21] authentic and deep your passion is [65:24] there is no need that all the products [65:26] are just a byproduct of exactly that [65:27] what we've just experienced so it's [65:29] funny because I hear you how deeply [65:31] passionate and obsessed you are about [65:33] your mission as you call it [65:35] and I just believe the product because I [65:39] know where it's coming from and that's [65:40] the most important thing it's coming [65:42] from a deep sense of mission that is so [65:43] unbelievably authentic that starts [65:46] sounds like in your childhood with a [65:47] battle with your own skin issues and [65:49] acne [65:50] um in the byproduct of that authentic [65:52] mission is these wonderful products [65:53] which are taking the World by storm what [65:55] what have I got in front of me here okay [65:57] so [65:58] every part to say I'm just giving you [66:00] I'm going to give you the quick [66:01] headlight so you can go back to your [66:02] girlfriend and and you can have [66:03] knowledge let's just close off on this [66:05] the book is available in September yes [66:07] Fab so everyone can go pre-order that [66:09] now yeah wonderful now right so highly [66:13] recommend everybody goes in pre-orders [66:14] it because it's a beautiful book thank [66:15] you very much [66:16] so fundamental skincare whatever age you [66:20] are or skin color you are or anything is [66:23] you should clean your skin properly okay [66:25] you should wear SPF okay every day [66:28] whatever your melanin levels yep cancer [66:31] being the primary cause but other [66:34] ascetics as well [66:36] um you should do something that [66:37] regenerates your skin and retinoids can [66:40] do that and exfoliants can exfoliate [66:43] your skin [66:44] and you should keep your skin even so [66:46] vitamin C okay so those kind of me are [66:49] the showstoppers in a routine well what [66:52] if I don't because I'm guilty as charged [66:54] to all of us if you don't genes might [66:56] make you think [66:57] I don't need to I'm fine but I look at [67:00] your skin and I'm going to come over now [67:01] oh no don't call me oh [ __ ] [67:04] do this look at me and I close my eyes [67:06] because I need to feel your skin without [67:10] judging you by looking at you okay so [67:13] what I do is I just have a feel and I [67:15] feel so first thing I feel immediately [67:17] is the congestion you have here right in [67:19] the center a lot of people like women [67:20] will have congestion here because they [67:22] don't like to get their hair wet when [67:25] they wash their face you have congestion [67:26] here sure it's not muscle or something [67:28] it's not muscle at all I know the [67:30] difference darling [67:31] um and this is not like that's beer you [67:34] see but this is congestion under the [67:36] skin because you have an oily skin so [67:37] you have a sebaceous gland that can [67:38] sometimes get blocked Under the Skin it [67:40] doesn't become a spot but it's congested [67:42] so that's there all right so exfoliant [67:45] you're going to use I do get a lot of [67:46] spots there okay well then you're going [67:48] to use find your balance in fact we've [67:49] got to get your final Advance then I go [67:51] around here [67:54] then I feel your lymph whenever you're [67:57] feeling [67:58] blocked doing this tiny movement here [68:01] releases your lymph nodes and you go [68:03] around the back she's massaging my face [68:05] for anyone that's listening on audio it [68:07] feels really good round your ears agree [68:09] to disagree okay and then you go down [68:12] and you want to kind of go down to your [68:14] clavicum release this is all like a [68:15] channel for all your lymph so if you [68:17] ever get a blocked face or you get dark [68:18] circles you do this kind of getting it [68:20] down like Ah that's why women always do [68:23] that thing on Instagram with the yeah [68:25] with the stone so your oilier here thank [68:28] you you've got a slight Dark Circle yeah [68:31] it's unslapped yeah and you've got [68:34] hydrated skin but block Skin So for me [68:36] the best thing you would do for your [68:38] skin is you exfoliate your skin because [68:40] you need to slosh off dead skin cells [68:42] and you need to clarify your skin you [68:45] need to get your pores get the [68:48] congestion out [68:49] so that means drinking water it means [68:52] having an exfoliant a liquid exfoliant [68:54] so that's exfoliant we sell tiptoe in [68:57] though you don't have sensitive skin so [68:59] you would use one called find your [69:00] balance which I'm going to give you okay [69:02] okay and then afterwards use a [69:04] moisturizer called niacinamide it's [69:06] called energize me it has something [69:08] called sacinic acid in it sacinic acid [69:10] is like [69:11] it's an ingredient that goes into your [69:13] cell and goes like this so when you put [69:16] that on your skin will wake up you'll [69:18] feel an alertness to your skin and then [69:21] you'll feel you get off a flight and [69:22] you'd feel I don't look tired because [69:24] you haven't looked you need to touch [69:25] your face a lot of people just don't [69:27] touch their face enough you need to get [69:29] the oxygen to your face you know you go [69:31] to the gym and the oxygen goes around [69:32] your body and your lymph system works [69:34] and you get this feeling of aliveness [69:36] but we just leave our face alone [69:39] so you do this you don't do it with me [69:42] just do it with me get yourself get your [69:43] fingers like this yeah like that so it's [69:45] like you've got a scissor and do [69:47] friction like this up down up down then [69:50] go left [69:51] and right [69:53] up down like that okay and then you want [69:56] to get your hands here yeah and you want [69:58] to lift your cheekbones like this fast [69:59] one two three [70:02] feel the energy [70:07] okay just let go now do you feel this [70:10] movement or rush in your face yeah [70:11] that's your lymph your lymph is like [70:14] your [70:15] hose pipe around your face and if you [70:18] put a sort of foot on the houseplate it [70:20] stops you need this to move around if [70:21] it's moving around it's releasing the [70:23] talks and taking them down here at the [70:24] moment it's leaving them on your skin [70:26] under your skin so it's Cleaning Out My [70:28] Face yes you want it to be moving so [70:30] there's just three things then so tell [70:32] me tell me this so if you had three [70:34] things you would use yeah three products [70:35] I would use and then sort of three [70:37] principles towards skin good skin care [70:39] okay you use [70:40] better off which is a cleansing one you [70:42] go in the shower yeah and you put this [70:43] on your face yeah it's on Aha and PHA [70:47] it's got gentle exfoliating acids okay [70:49] okay then [70:50] find your balance which is an exfoliant [70:53] which is not there what are you going to [70:54] get for you I don't know we'll get out [70:55] for you and energize me which you don't [70:58] have those three things is what you're [70:59] going to use okay your girlfriend [71:01] we're using longer routine I don't know [71:03] what she looks like on skin tone but [71:05] she'll probably have the retinols and [71:07] she'll have the vitamin C's and a few [71:09] other things but you just need three [71:10] things so that's the products and then [71:12] in terms of the personal routines you [71:13] said drink water sleep sleep and then [71:17] like massage my face yeah [71:19] got it okay [71:21] I'm looking forward to I'm looking [71:22] forward to it I I've always kind of [71:24] procrastinated on like skincare routine [71:26] I know but if it's easy if it's really [71:28] easy if it's by this thing called pick [71:30] it up yeah okay well you would just like [71:31] we'll cement it down with blue tag cool [71:33] okay okay so we have a tradition where [71:35] the last guest leaves a question for the [71:36] next guest and not knowing who they're [71:37] going to be leaving it for yeah the [71:39] question left for you is what's the one [71:42] thing that gives you the most healthy [71:44] pleasure in life and how can you commit [71:46] to [71:49] harness more of it going down a skinny [71:53] slope at 83 kilometers an hour but the [71:55] thing is I just feel a responsibility [71:57] now that I can't do that anymore why [71:59] because it's very dangerous you know [72:03] it's like a [72:05] but it is it's a guilty plan because I [72:07] love it I love the speed I love the like [72:09] I'm just in control [72:11] went through my hair [72:13] you know it's the only sport I know how [72:15] to do I'm [ __ ] every other sport [72:16] sounds like the way you live life yeah [72:19] probably in control high speed yeah win [72:22] through your arm probably because I [72:25] can't leave one somebody else now yeah [72:26] thank you thank you so much thank you [72:28] for the inspiration you truly are an [72:30] inspiration uh tremendously tremendously [72:32] so and I'm gonna make you feel [72:33] uncomfortable you should be so proud of [72:35] how far you've come [72:39] you must be so proud take some time to [72:41] just breathe it in and enjoy it training [72:43] you're gonna regret it shout out now I [72:45] appreciate you so much thank you for [72:47] being here thank you for coming and [72:48] doing this and thank you for creating a [72:49] real business that's um inspiring so [72:51] many people just through its existence [72:52] but also inspiring them to be better and [72:54] to feel better about themselves through [72:56] the wonderful products that you've made [72:57] and I highly recommend that everyone [72:58] goes and gets this book it's more of [73:00] Trinity the Trinity that I'm sure you've [73:02] loved in this conversation and these [73:03] products I mean they speak from [73:04] themselves because as I said you know [73:05] exactly where they've come from so thank [73:07] you [73:10] oh [73:11] as you may know this podcast is [73:13] sponsored by huel if you're living under [73:14] a rock you might have missed that and he [73:16] all has such a wide range of products [73:18] now but there is a great way to try all [73:21] of them this is the huel best seller [73:23] bundle perfectly curated so that you can [73:26] try all 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