## Background
Published on YouTube by The Diary Of A CEO on September 25, 2023, this episode features neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart. According to the page description, the discussion focuses on how the brain influences health, relationships, and well-being, covering topics like neuroplasticity, stress management, memory improvement, and habit change.
## TL;DR
Dr. Tara Swart explores the deep connection between brain health, environmental stressors, and human behavior. She explains how neuroplasticity enables lifelong learning and habit modification through a four-step process of awareness, focused attention, deliberate practice, and accountability. Additionally, the conversation highlights the biological impacts of generational trauma, the importance of nutrition and somatic practices for stress regulation, and how language, visualization, and mindset directly shape physical and psychological reality.
## Atmosphere & style
The conversation carries an insightful, grounded, and empowering tone as Steven Bartlett and Dr. Tara Swart blend rigorous neuroscience with actionable personal growth strategies. The host's curious and reflective questioning creates an intimate, engaging atmosphere that invites deep exploration. Listening feels like an intellectual yet accessible masterclass, shifting smoothly from serious scientific discussions on trauma and stress to inspiring insights on agency, relationships, and human potential.
## Key takeaways
- [47:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2833s) Human psychological drives, such as the need to belong and avoid exile, are rooted in prehistoric tribal survival dynamics.
- [47:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2833s) Neuroaesthetics—engaging with art, nature, and sensory beauty—signals safety to the brain and cultivates positive neural pathways.
- [01:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3600s) Emotions, behaviors, and health outcomes like divorce or obesity spread contagiously within social networks.
- [01:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3600s) The brain maintains neuroplasticity well past age 65, enabling new learning and executive function upgrades throughout life.
- [01:04:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3854s) Changing unhelpful behaviors involves a 4-step process: raised awareness, focused attention, deliberate practice, and accountability.
- [01:11:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4272s) Childhood environments create default neural pathways and soft-wiring that can be systematically retrained through self-work.
- [01:13:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4388s) Severe environmental stress causes biological changes in gene expression that can be passed down to subsequent generations via epigenetics.
- [01:16:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4562s) Maternal stress during pregnancy releases high cortisol levels that cross the placenta, altering fetal stress resilience and mood vulnerability.
- [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4686s) Healing from acute grief and heartbreak requires fully processing emotional depth rather than suppressing pain or leaning on intellectual advice.
- [01:23:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5020s) Neuroplasticity occurs through myelination, synaptic connection, and hippocampal neurogenesis, which is driven by aerobic exercise and dark-skinned foods.
- [01:26:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5161s) Focused mental rehearsal and motor visualization can yield measurable physical strength gains without actual physical movement.
- [01:37:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5825s) Effective manifestation and action boards work by altering internal belief structures and focusing brain attention on goal-oriented opportunities.
- [01:39:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5952s) Shifting from a demand-driven approach to an offer-driven approach in relationships increases oxytocin, trust, and mutual attraction.
- [01:47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6450s) Somatic practices like humming and vocalization stimulate the vagus nerve to transition the nervous system into a parasympathetic state.
- [01:48:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6530s) Psychological priming and deep-seated beliefs about aging directly influence physical body capabilities and appearance.
- [01:54:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6840s) Subconscious language and subtle reframing alter physical behavior, personal accountability, and internal agency.
- [01:57:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7032s) Daily sensory-focused visualization combined with gratitude shifts the brain from a cortisol-driven fear state to a trust state.
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=0s) The Power of Visualization and the Science of Brain Potential
Dr. Tara Swart highlights the vast untapped potential within the human brain, illustrating this with a fascinating study conducted on weightlifters. In the experiment, athletes completely stopped lifting heavy weights for two weeks and instead sat still, purely visualizing themselves going through their lifting routines. By the end of the two-week period, the participants experienced an impressive 13% increase in muscle mass purely through mental imagery.
Steven Bartlett introduces Dr. Swart as a neuroscientist, medical doctor, executive advisor, and best-selling author dedicated to teaching actionable strategies for building mental resilience. In a rapid sequence of introductory teasers, Dr. Swart previews critical insights covered throughout the conversation:
- **Stress Contagion:** Cortisol leaks out through sweat, radiating roughly an arm's length around an individual, absorbing into the skin of nearby people and elevating their stress levels.
- **Abdominal Fat Storage:** Chronic stress triggers survival mechanisms that cause the body to stubbornly hold onto visceral belly fat.
- **Social Dynamics & Life Decisions:** Psychological states and major life changes exhibit social contagion; for example, statistically, if a close peer gets divorced, an individual's own probability of divorcing within the next year increases.
- **Lifelong Neuroplasticity:** While the brain undergoes active organic development until around age 25, individuals aged 25 to 65 can deliberately engage in intense cognitive challenges to physically reshape their brain architecture, enhancing emotional regulation, complex problem-solving, cognitive flexibility, and the ability to override unconscious biases.
---
[01:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=98s) Confronting Executive Misconceptions: The Brain-Body Connection
Dr. Swart reflects on the early days of her advisory career around the 2008 financial crisis, when she frequently encountered corporate environments that severely misunderstood the relationship between physical health and cognitive output. High-performing corporate executives treated their physical bodies as mere transportation vehicles carrying their brains from one boardroom meeting to another.
Executives routinely ignored basic biological needs—adequate sleep, proper nutrition, optimal hydration, and movement—despite the fact that their primary commercial value stemmed directly from their brain power. This systemic neglect culminated in a crisis at a major investment bank where traders were literally dropping dead of heart attacks on the trading floor. When the bank requested her medical assistance strictly to fix their physical health, Dr. Swart refused to treat the physical symptoms in isolation, insisting that the underlying mental and emotional stress had to be addressed first.
- **Cortisol & Inflammation:** Prolonged high cortisol levels signal an imminent survival threat to brain receptors, triggering a cascade of inflammatory responses throughout the vascular system, heart, and digestive tract.
- **Non-Traditional Heart Attack Drivers:** The fatal heart attacks observed on the trading floor occurred in individuals lacking typical cardiovascular risk factors such as high blood pressure, elevated cholesterol, or a history of smoking—stress alone was the driving catalyst.
---
[04:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=290s) The Subjectivity of Stress and Adaptive Responses
Steven brings up a famous TED Talk and scientific literature suggesting that stress is largely subjective and that its harmful physiological effects—such as cardiovascular disease and systemic inflammation—might only manifest if an individual firmly believes that stress is inherently harmful.
"I would define stress as when the load that you perceive on you physically, mentally, emotionally, or spiritually is too much for you to bear."
Dr. Swart reconciles her psychiatric background with modern performance terminology, emphasizing that while short-term stress spikes are natural and adaptive, long-term elevations are unequivocally destructive:
- **Adaptive Stress (Short-Term Spikes):** A temporary surge in stress hormones is a healthy biological response designed to help an individual rise to meet an immediate challenge. Crucially, the physiological levels must return to baseline once the challenge passes.
- **Maladaptive Stress (Chronic Elevation):** When stress levels remain perpetually elevated without recovery periods, the body remains in a continuous state of inflammation, leading to long-term health degradation regardless of mindsets.
---
[06:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=378s) Physiological Mechanisms of Bonding and Interpersonal Dynamics
Transitioning into the biological mechanics of how humans connect, Steven asks how stress and emotional states transfer between people. Dr. Swart illustrates invisible biological communication by pointing to menstrual synchronization: women who live or work closely together frequently align their menstrual cycles within two to three months due to airborne sex steroid hormones (estrogen and progesterone) evaporating through sweat. In ancient hunter-gatherer tribes, this mechanism ensured that multiple women were fertile simultaneously when nomadic alpha males returned, maximizing the probability of offspring survival during harsh conditions like ice ages or famines. Within groups, this cycle alignment is typically led by the alpha female, whose baseline hormone levels influence the group.
To demonstrate how non-verbal cues build trust and psychological safety, Dr. Swart outlines specific behaviors that trigger the release of **oxytocin** (the bonding hormone):
```
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| OXYTOCIN-TRIGGERING BEHAVIORS |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| [ Right-to-Left Eye Contact ] -> Mimics primary maternal bonding gaze |
| [ Two-Handed Handshakes ] -> Encloses the partner's hand to foster warmth |
| [ Physical Touch & Hugs ] -> Drops psychological guards and builds trust |
| [ Shared Laughter & Hardship] -> Deepens emotional resonance and social bonds |
| [ Warm Water Immersion ] -> Warm baths simulate the physical sensation of a |
| hug, elevating baseline oxytocin self-soothing |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
```
- **Right-to-Left Eye Gaze:** Because most mothers are right-handed, they hold infants in their left arm, placing their right eye in direct line with the baby's left eye. The optical nerve routes this visual input directly to the amygdala, establishing a deep emotional resonance loop. Utilizing a right-eye-to-left-eye gaze in adult interactions subconsciously activates this primal bonding pathway.
- **Physical Contact:** Deep handshakes, two-handed holds, warm hugs, and shared high-emotion experiences (such as skydiving or overcoming intense challenges) significantly lower psychological defenses and accelerate interpersonal trust.
---
<ElicitationsGroup message="Where would you like to go next in this transcript walkthrough?">
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Here is a detailed, faithful walkthrough covering this part of the conversation.
---
[16:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=963s) Gorillas, Social Hierarchies, and How Leader Stress Leaks Downward
Dr. Tara Swart and Steven Bartlett continue discussing social hierarchies and stress contagion, pointing out that in gorilla troops, the stress levels of a silverback gorilla affect the rest of the group far more than stress between peers. They reason that this hierarchy is deeply tied to evolutionary survival; for example, the alpha female needs others to fall in line and maintain optimal timing and resilience when mating occurs. Returning to human dynamics, Dr. Swart emphasizes that cortisol—the primary stress hormone—functions identically across both men and women, but its impact depends heavily on where an individual sits within an organizational hierarchy.
When people leave a meeting feeling utterly drained, Dr. Swart notes that the depleted person is almost always lower in seniority than the individual who projected the stress. This renders stress management a paramount responsibility for CEOs and leaders. She shares that when advising corporate executives, many CEOs and CFOs naively claim they can manage the issue by hiding their emotions or withholding bad financial news. Dr. Swart always corrects them: team members still absorb the stress on a subtle, physiological level regardless of whether it is explicitly spoken aloud.
- **Gorilla Troop Dynamics:** Silverback stress impacts the entire troop hierarchically, driven by evolutionary survival and genetic resilience.
- **Corporate Hierarchy Impact:** A leader’s cortisol levels impact subordinates far more than peer-to-peer stress combined.
- **The "Drained Meeting" Phenomenon:** Exhaustion after an interaction typically flows downward from higher-seniority figures.
- **The Myth of Hiding Stress:** Executives cannot simply mask bad numbers or suppressed emotions; employees physically register the leader's stress anyway.
---
[18:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1081s) Cortisol, the "Stress Belly," and Executive Performance
Dr. Swart explains a specific evolutionary side effect of cortisol: it signals the body to store abdominal fat as a survival mechanism against potential starvation. In ancient environments, storing visceral fat meant surviving month-long food shortages. In modern financial services, however, chronic workplace stress leads to persistent belly fat that is exceptionally resistant to diet and exercise. She recounts a lighthearted trend with her banking clients, who would walk into her office and immediately lift their shirts to demonstrate how stressful their past month had been.
She shares a striking anecdote from a keynote address at a major bank. While she was explaining how executive stress trickles down and creates unshiftable stomach fat in subordinates, the CEO’s personal assistant shouted out from the audience, "So, he's the reason that I'm fat!" Rather than erupting in laughter, the room fell dead silent. Dr. Swart realized then that it was not a joke to the staff; it was a tense, accurate reflection of how deeply the CEO's stress was impacting his entire team.
- **Evolutionary Mechanism:** Cortisol stores abdominal fat to ensure survival during prolonged famines.
- **Unshiftable Weight:** Caloric restriction and increased exercise fail to eliminate cortisol-induced belly fat unless the root-cause stress is reduced.
- **The PA Anecdote:** A CEO's assistant publicly blamed her boss's stress for her weight gain, and the dead silence from the audience confirmed the toxic reality of the environment.
- **Promotion Pitfalls:** Promoting a highly stressed, "cortisol-leaking" individual into senior leadership risks contaminating the physical and mental health of everyone underneath them.
---
[20:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1251s) Physical Symptoms of High Cortisol and How to Flush It Out
For individuals who suspect they are leaking cortisol, Dr. Swart notes that self-awareness is half the battle. High cortisol manifests across multiple physiological systems. Because cortisol works inversely with melatonin on the 24-hour circadian clock—melatonin helps us fall asleep, while cortisol wakes us up—elevated cortisol severely disrupts sleep patterns. Additionally, due to the direct connection between the brain and the gut, high cortisol frequently causes acid reflux, indigestion, and mood volatility. She notes that stressed individuals often "keep it together" at work only to snap at home over minor inconveniences, signaling they are on the verge of a workplace breakdown.
Because cortisol is pro-inflammatory and physically drying, it frequently breaks down both the physical and psychological barrier of the skin, resulting in dry skin, eczema, or inflammation. To combat high cortisol, Dr. Swart highlights two primary, evidence-based methods for getting the hormone out of the brain-body system:
1. **Aerobic Exercise:** Physically sweating out excess cortisol through intense cardio.
2. **Externalizing Thoughts:** Journaling thoughts onto paper, or speaking them out loud with a therapist or trusted friend to stop destructive rumination.
---
[23:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1399s) Sleep Optimization, the Glymphatic System, and Brain Cleansing
Steven reflects on a major personal revelation over the past six months regarding his sleep routine. He avoids scheduling meetings before 11:00 a.m., wears an eye mask, and allows his body to wake up naturally without an alarm. Dr. Swart validates this approach, emphasizing that while shift workers or parents with young children face unavoidable disruptions, those with a choice must prioritize sleep as non-negotiable for brain health.
While driven executives historically bragged about surviving on 4 to 5 hours of sleep, population norm studies demonstrate that the ideal sleep duration for most adults is **8 hours and 15 minutes** (requiring roughly 9 hours in bed). Research conducted between 2012 and 2014 uncovered the **glymphatic system**—a specialized fluid pathway run by glial cells that actively flushes toxins out of the brain during sleep. Rather than passive dripping, the brain utilizes active jets of fluid to clear away neurotoxic waste products linked to neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
- **Toxins Flushed During Sleep:** Tau proteins, amyloid plaques, and neurofibrillary tangles.
- **Cleansing Duration:** The full glymphatic cleansing cycle requires **7 to 8 hours** of continuous, quality sleep to complete.
- **Optimal Sleep Position:** Sleeping on your side (left or right) optimizes neck vein alignment and maximizes glymphatic fluid flow compared to sleeping on your back or stomach.
- **Oversleeping Risk:** Sleeping consistently over 9 hours can have a depressogenic effect, lowering overall mood.
- **Dr. Swart’s Side-Sleeping Pillow:** She uses a specialized memory foam pillow from Tempur UK to maintain proper side-sleeping posture.
---
[28:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1698s) Evolutionary Co-Sleeping, "Sleep Divorce," and the Power of Proximity
Steven asks how early human ancestors and tribal communities slept. Dr. Swart explains that co-sleeping in groups was essential for evolutionary survival. Beyond providing physical warmth inside caves, close proximity triggered the release of **oxytocin**—the bonding hormone—reinforcing the emotional warmth and security of belonging to a tribe. Ancestors likely slept on their left side to protect their heart and keep their dominant right arm free to defend against predators.
This leads into a discussion about the modern trend of "sleep divorce," where couples sleep in separate bedrooms due to conflicting work schedules or early parenting demands. Steven asks if room separation erodes relationship intimacy. Dr. Swart takes a firm stance, stating, "I would never do it," reserving separate sleeping strictly for temporary, extreme circumstances like caring for a newborn.
Dr. Swart explains that co-sleeping remains fundamental to human emotional and spiritual survival. Tracking her own physiological data using Finnish Heart Rate Variability (HRV) chest-monitor technology, she discovered that even when her husband woke up at 5:00 a.m. and gave her a kiss goodbye while she slept, her chest monitor recorded a distinct **spike in physiological resilience** rather than a stress response. Continuous physical contact, skin-to-skin touch, and nighttime proximity build deep trust and love that outweigh minor sleep interruptions.
[31:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1907s) Physical Connection, HRV, and Physiological Resilience
Dr. Tara Swart discusses how resilience can be replenished throughout the day, whether by relaxing quietly with a partner, spending time with a sibling, or engaging in work that one loves. Despite being self-admittedly "obsessed" with her sleep and usually resistant to overnight interruptions, Dr. Swart emphasizes that co-sleeping and spooning with a partner are intensely neuroprotective. While some individuals claim to sleep better alone, humans are evolutionary wired to thrive as part of a tribe rather than in isolation—a reality underscored by the heightened feelings of loneliness and disconnect following the pandemic.
When Steven Bartlett questions the relationship between Heart Rate Variability (HRV) and resilience, Dr. Swart clarifies the distinction between psychological and physiological resilience. HRV monitors calculate the time intervals between successive heartbeats while simultaneously tracking overall heart rate. When heart rate remains low—such as during sleep—fluctuations in HRV reflect psychological recovery and nervous system restoration. Dr. Swart shares a personal observation from her own tracking data: at the exact 15-minute window when her husband gave her a kiss good morning, her device registered its highest spike in recovery.
Steven responds with a personal anecdote about leaving early one morning at 6:00 a.m. and showering his girlfriend with kisses before taking a taxi. Later, his girlfriend remarked that the gesture "unlocked something" in her, shortly after which her delayed menstrual cycle resumed. Though Steven admits his typical skepticism toward non-science explanations, Dr. Swart notes that subtle biological interactions between touch and the endocrine system are increasingly supported by physiological mechanisms.
* **Neuroprotective Benefits:** Overnight physical proximity and intimacy reduce physiological stress markers and build nervous system resilience.
* **HRV vs. Heart Rate:** HRV devices differentiate physical exertion from emotional recovery by comparing beat-to-beat variability against baseline heart rate.
* **Recouping Resilience:** High HRV during resting periods indicates parasympathetic activation and psychological restorative states.
---
[35:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2155s) Intuition, Gender Differences, and the Science of "Gut Feelings"
Steven asks whether men and women differ in their capacity for intuition and their willingness to trust intangible emotional forces. Dr. Swart uses a height analogy—explaining that if 50 men and 50 women were lined up by height, the middle would feature overlap rather than an absolute split. Similarly, while women are often culturally or emotionally more open to accepting intuition, it is not an absolute divide. She observes that men frequently require a scientific foundation before accepting intuition as a valid decision-making tool.
> "Intuition is the lessons that you picked up along the way that you're not conscious of, but they're still stored in your nervous system."
Dr. Swart recalls her time teaching executive education at MIT roughly seven years prior. During a lecture on the science of intuition, a young male executive objected, asking if anyone would truly make major hiring or firing decisions based on a "gut feeling." To his surprise, several senior executives in the room confirmed that their most critical strategic decisions relied heavily on intuition. Dr. Swart explains that wisdom and age refine intuition into a premier decision-making modality.
Scientifically, intuition operates through **Hebbian learning**—the neurological principle that "neurons that fire together, wire together." While recent daily experiences remain at the surface of the outer cerebral cortex, long-standing life experiences and pattern recognition are pushed deeper into the nervous system. Over time, these learned patterns cascade from the conscious cortex down through the limbic system, brainstem, spinal cord, and directly into the enteric nervous system (the gut neurons).
* **Hebbian Learning:** Neural pathways solidify through repeated firing, transferring complex situational patterns into subconscious responses.
* **Anatomical Distribution:** Memory and IQ reside in the brain, but subconscious experience and intuitive wisdom are embodied across the central and enteric nervous systems.
* **Enteric Innervation:** Organs such as the stomach, intestines, heart, and skin are densely innervated, providing constant bidirectional feedback to the brain.
---
[41:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2466s) The Brain-Body Connection and Cortisol Suppression
Dr. Swart explains that every organ—including the heart, liver, kidneys, and skin—is directly connected to the brain via nerve pathways originating from the spinal cord. Because of this continuous bidirectional signaling, the body frequently registers physical strain or incoming illness days before the conscious mind becomes aware of it. Steven acknowledges that his girlfriend often predicts impending colds days in advance, whereas his corporate clients regularly push through work only to collapse with illness the moment their vacations begin.
```
CHRONIC HIGH STRESS (Elevated Cortisol)
│
▼
IMMUNE SYSTEM SUPPRESSION
(Symptoms hidden by stress)
│
▼
STRESS REMOVED (Vacation)
│
▼
IMMUNE SYSTEM REMAINS DOWNSHIFTED
──► Immediate Illness / Collapse
```
Dr. Swart explains that high levels of cortisol temporarily mask illness by suppressing immune responses to keep the body functioning during periods of high pressure. Once stress subsides and the individual relaxes on holiday, the immune system remains downshifted, allowing dormant infections to manifest. She recalls the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, when overworked professionals routinely accepted lingering 6-week colds as normal due to collective "groupthink," failing to realize their immune systems were severely compromised by chronic stress.
* **Bidirectional Feedback:** Real-time feedback between organ systems and the central nervous system signals physical depletion long before symptoms become conscious.
* **Cortisol Masking:** Sustained stress hormones temporarily hold physiological breakdown at bay, leading to "post-stress collapse" when taking time off.
* **Groupthink Norms:** High-stress workplace cultures often normalize chronic physical symptoms, preventing individuals from identifying underlying health issues.
---
[43:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2591s) The Post-Pandemic Mental Health and Purpose Crisis
Addressing the broader societal landscape, Dr. Swart states that humanity is no longer facing a "looming" mental health crisis, but is actively living through one. The prolonged uncertainty, isolation, and health anxiety experienced during the COVID-19 pandemic created a tier of chronic stress unprecedented in modern history. She notes how different demographics were uniquely impacted: while infant socialization was restricted, teenage boys maintained social ties through online gaming, leaving teenage girls comparatively more isolated.
Dr. Swart draws inspiration from indigenous wisdom—specifically First Nations principles where major community decisions are evaluated based on their impact seven generations into the future. Modern society, by contrast, rarely plans even one generation ahead. Reflecting on her transition from corporate consulting for global firms like Lonza toward holistic neurobiology, Dr. Swart emphasizes that recovering from this collective stress requires two key pillars: reconnection with nature and cultivating a transcendent purpose.
Studies demonstrate that immersive time in natural environments directly lowers systemic inflammation, reduces stress markers, and promotes longevity. Furthermore, mental well-being requires a sense of purpose that transcends individual gratification. While professional accomplishments or personal media channels offer self-satisfaction, true psychological resilience stems from altruistic actions—such as volunteering or sharing unrequited support—that connect the individual to a broader social ecosystem.
* **Multi-Generational Thinking:** Modern culture's short-term focus contrasts with long-term decision-making models like the Seven Generations principle.
* **Nature Exposure:** Green spaces and natural audio cues (such as birdsong) lower autonomic stress and enhance long-term health outcomes.
* **Transcendent Purpose:** Engaging in service or community-oriented actions beyond self-interest provides vital protective buffers against depression and burnout.
The Evolutionary Roots of Serving Others and Feeling "Enough"
Dr. Tara Swart and Steven unpack the deep psychological discomfort of feeling like you are "different" or "not enough," tracing these anxieties straight back to our tribal history. In a prehistoric tribe, being perceived as different or as dead weight—due to being injured, immobile, or elderly—posed a fatal risk of being cast out. Serving the greater good and helping others, whether volunteering or simply helping an elderly neighbor with groceries, taps into this ancient survival instinct of adding value to the tribe. Dr. Swart notes that Steven brilliantly anticipated her go-to therapeutic reflex: whenever she is unsure of an answer, she looks back to human evolution.
Neuroaesthetics and Finding Safety in Beauty
Dr. Swart introduces "neuroaesthetics" or "neuroarts," which involves incorporating regular creative activities—such as dance, music, painting, drawing, reading novels, or theater—into your life. Surprisingly, spending time in nature is also a core part of neuroaesthetics because nature is a universal palette that all humans inherently love. Simple morning rituals like smelling lemon zest from previous cooking, placing fresh flowers on a bedside table, or listening to birdsong cultivate an aesthetically pleasing environment for the brain. Steven accurately guesses the evolutionary purpose behind this: appreciating beauty signals safety to the brain, letting it know you have the luxury of spare mental resources rather than just fighting for survival.
* **The Evolution of Aesthetics:** Ancient humans engaged in neuroaesthetic rituals long before modern times, such as looking at stars at night, dancing around fires, creating cave paintings, and adorning themselves.
* **Brain-Body Associations:** Through neuroplasticity and the rule that "pathways that fire together wire together," repeatedly experiencing safety around nature creates a neurological association where being near trees signals physiological and psychological safety to the body.
The Modern Spiritual Crisis vs. Ancient Wisdom
Reflecting on modern society, Dr. Swart laments how far we have drifted from our roots, living isolated in white-walled city apartments, ordering food through glass screens, and replacing real intimacy with pornography and social media networks. Steven questions if society would need a complete redesign. Dr. Swart counters that true change starts with the individual, noting her own intentional lifestyle choices: spending time surrounded by plants, cultivating deep spiritual relationships, and completely avoiding pornography and dating apps.
* **The Impact of Pornography:** Dr. Swart explains that sex and food are the two most basic drives in the brain. Pornography heavily distorts the ideal of what women should look and act like, creates a massive disconnect and lack of empathy between men and women, and accelerates a transactional approach to modern dating.
* **The Screen Time Trap:** While screens are necessary for work and communication, studies show that preferring online communication over face-to-face interaction reduces social comfort and empathy, and drives body dysmorphism in teenagers.
Social Contagion and Curating Your Tribe
Transitioning back to a question Steven previously Googled—whether stress is contagious—Dr. Swart dives into the concept of **social contagion**. Statistics show that if someone in your social circle gets a divorce or becomes obese, you are statistically more likely to experience the same outcome within the next year. Dr. Swart clarifies that this applies strongly to attitudes, behavior, and psychological levels.
* **The Circle of Trust:** Because people naturally gravitate toward others at a similar psychological level, Dr. Swart emphasizes the importance of curating your tribe. You want to surround yourself with people who are growing, open to challenge, learning, and caring about mental health and spirituality.
The Revelation of Neuroplasticity and Executive Functions
Reflecting on her medical training and PhD in neuroscience, Dr. Swart shares how neuroplasticity was completely unknown at the time; scientists firmly believed the brain stopped changing once physical growth ended. Today, we know the brain actively grows and changes until around age 25, and continues to be malleable past 65 if stimulated by intense experiences. If left unprompted in a stagnant routine, the brain simply plateaus.
* **Global Brain Benefits:** Engaging in intensive learning—such as picking up a new language like French or Portuguese—does more than just teach vocabulary. It triggers global brain benefits that upgrade **executive functions**, which are the highest functions of the brain.
* **Executive Function Perks:** These upgraded abilities include better emotional regulation, complex problem solving, flexible and creative thinking, and the capacity to override conscious or unconscious biases. Smaller lifestyle shifts like travel, cooking new recipes, taking different routes to work, or reading diverse viewpoints also contribute.
Overcoming Habits, Procrastination, and Self-Perception
Steven lightheartedly points out that when people learn about neuroplasticity, they typically want to completely overhaul their identity—stopping being negative thinkers, overthinkers, or procrastinators. Steven jokingly confesses to procrastinating on certain things, leading into a playful back-and-forth about whether hosting a daily podcast counts as true neuroplasticity. Dr. Swart clarifies that while interviewing different guests every day introduces new facts, the conversational framework is already a well-worn, natural neural pathway for Steven, meaning it doesn't force the massive structural shifts required to rewire deep-seated habits.
By the way, to unlock the full functionality of all Apps, enable [Gemini Apps Activity](https://myactivity.google.com/product/gemini).
[01:04:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3854s) The 4-Step Process for Changing Unhelpful Behaviors
Steven Bartlett and Dr. Tara Swart transition from discussing abstract brain pathways to addressing the practical ways people can unlearn unhelpful behaviors—such as lack of motivation, overthinking, negative thinking, short tempers, feeling stuck, people-pleasing, and explosive emotional reactivity. Dr. Swart outlines a four-step framework grounded in neuroplasticity to reshape these patterns.
The first step is **raised awareness**, which Dr. Swart notes is "50% of the battle." This involves identifying the recurring pattern and looking beneath the surface thought to expose the root underlying belief. To demonstrate, Steven shares an example of a friend who repeatedly dates people who are already married or in relationships, only to end up heartbroken every time. Dr. Swart explains that behind such a pattern often lies low self-worth or childhood wounds—a deep-seated belief that one does not deserve a partner of their own.
```
Four-Step Neuroplasticity Framework:
1. Raised Awareness ➜ Spot the pattern and unearth the root belief.
2. Focused Attention ➜ Map past triggers and connect decisions to consequences.
3. Deliberate Practice ➜ Actively practice the new behavior in real scenarios.
4. Accountability ➜ Use external checks (journaling, vision boards, mentors).
```
The second step is **focused attention**, where a person systematically reviews their past, work life, personal relationships, and triggers to connect their specific choices directly with their negative consequences. As Dr. Swart puts it, "You are basically the sum of every decision that you've made in your life."
The third step is **deliberate practice**, which requires actively choosing a new behavior in real-life scenarios. Using the example of an overthinker on a podcast who worries about hidden motives, Dr. Swart illustrates how consciously hushing that inner voice—even if only successful 50% or 75% of the time at first—eventually builds a new neural pathway that becomes stronger than the old one. Because the brain is an energy-hungry organ, it naturally favors the path of least resistance; deliberate practice rewires that default path over time.
Finally, while not a structural step of neuroplasticity itself, the fourth critical element is **accountability**. Because most people quit at step three when practice gets uncomfortable, external support—such as a friend, a mentor, or a tangible action board with visual goals—is vital to keep the process on track.
* **Step 1: Raised Awareness** — Spotting the pattern accounts for half the effort; true progress requires digging below the conscious thought into the core self-belief.
* **Step 2: Focused Attention** — Journaling and tracking past triggers to link specific decision-making moments directly to their painful outcomes.
* **Step 3: Deliberate Practice** — Actively seeking out scenarios to practice the new desired response until the new pathway overrides the old default.
* **Step 4: Accountability** — Using external structures like friends, coaches, or action/vision boards to prevent giving up when building new habits feels difficult.
---
[01:11:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4272s) Breaking Childhood Pathways and Curing Trauma
Steven lightheartedly jokes about editing out Dr. Swart's repeated pushes for action boards before turning to a deeper question: if a neural pathway was formed in early childhood, is it so deeply ingrained that it becomes practically immovable? He shares his own personal struggle with disorganization, having grown up in a home that looked like an "atomic bomb had hit it," and wonders if trauma-induced beliefs—like feeling unlovable or inadequate—can ever be truly rewired.
Dr. Swart resists labeling any behavior as completely permanent. She points out that modern neuroscience has largely discarded the rigid term "hardwired" in favor of **soft-wiring**, directly because of neuroplasticity. While severe trauma can dominate someone's life if left unaddressed, significant healing and rewiring are entirely possible through deliberate self-work, resilience, and education.
* **Soft-Wiring vs. Hardwiring** — Neuroscience now emphasizes "soft-wiring" over "hardwired," acknowledging that even deeply entrenched childhood patterns retain brain plasticity.
* **Impact of Early Environments** — Childhood environments establish strong default pathways (e.g., chronic messiness or feeling unlovable), but these defaults can still be systematically retrained.
---
[01:13:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4388s) Generational Trauma and Epigenetics
Steven admits that when he first encountered the idea of generational trauma, he dismissed it as "woo-woo, fluffy... a nice way to blame your ancestors for the way that you are." Dr. Swart clarifies the science, separating the psychological and genetic mechanisms through which historical events ripple across generations.
She distinguishes between **generational trauma** and **intergenerational epigenetic trauma**:
```
Trauma Mechanisms:
• Generational Trauma ➜ Psychological spillover across generations (e.g., feeling isolated/marginalized due to group history).
• Epigenetic Trauma ➜ Environmental events alter gene expression (phenotype) without changing DNA sequence (genotype).
```
To explain epigenetics, Dr. Swart differentiates between our **genotype** (our static DNA sequence) and our **phenotype** (which specific genes get turned on or off by environmental factors). Landmark studies on historical crises like the Holocaust and the Dutch Hunger Winter demonstrate that extreme environmental stress alters stress responses across three or more subsequent generations.
Dr. Swart emphasizes a striking biological insight: "You aren't born with the genes that your parents had when they were born. You're born with the expression of the genes that your parents had around the time of conception." However, she stresses that this knowledge should never be used to induce guilt or blame; rather, understanding these mechanisms empowers people to use neuroplasticity and lifestyle changes to promote healthier gene expression for their children.
* **Generational Trauma** — The psychological spillover (feelings of isolation, exclusion, or fear) passed down socially within marginalized or historically persecuted groups (e.g., Native Americans, descendants of enslaved people).
* **Intergenerational Epigenetic Trauma** — Biological changes in gene expression triggered by severe environmental stressors (e.g., the Holocaust, Dutch famine) passed down to descendants.
* **Genotype vs. Phenotype** — Genotype is the inherited genetic code; phenotype refers to which specific genes are switched on or off by environmental inputs.
* **Conception-State Gene Expression** — Children inherit the gene expression profile their parents possessed at the time of conception, along with the influence of maternal stress during gestation.
---
[01:16:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4562s) How Maternal Stress Affects Pregnancy
Steven asks how acute stress experienced by a pregnant woman—such as being severely stressed at eight months—directly impacts her developing unborn baby. Dr. Swart provides a direct physical analogy: just as a drug like heroin passes from an addicted mother to her baby through their shared blood supply, high levels of the stress hormone cortisol cross the placenta directly into the fetus's bloodstream.
This exposure to in-utero stress can activate genes that reduce stress resilience or raise the child's later vulnerability to anxiety, mood disorders, and systemic inflammation before they are even born.
While Dr. Swart acknowledges how daunting this sounds, she strongly cautions against making mothers feel like they must be "completely zen and never get stressed," noting that is entirely unrealistic. Instead, if a child later shows signs of emotional dysregulation or anxiety, parents can actively use neuroplastic tools—such as teaching meditation, engaging in open emotional discussions, and utilizing educational books—to build resilience and rewrite those pathways.
* **Placental Cortisol Transfer** — Cortisol freely crosses the placenta, exposing the fetus to maternal stress levels through their shared circulatory system.
* **Pre-natal Genetic Priming** — High gestational stress can turn on genetic markers linked to heightened anxiety, lower stress tolerance, and early systemic inflammation.
* **Post-natal Neuroplastic Interventions** — Parents can counteract early stress exposure by teaching kids emotional regulation, mindfulness, and structured breathing as they grow.
---
[01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4686s) Grief, Heartbreak, and Loss in the Brain
Moving to the topic of profound emotional pain, Steven reflects on two of his close friends—one going through a devastating relationship breakup and another grieving the death of a loved one. He notes how grief and heartbreak act as all-consuming forces that seem utterly "resistant to advice."
Dr. Swart validates this observation, noting that the past few years have brought widespread forms of grief—including the loss of loved ones to death, the dissolution of relationships, and even the loss of one's sense of self. She shares a core therapeutic insight regarding how humans process severe emotional loss: "To ever heal from grief, you have to go to the bottom of the hole."
* **Forms of Grief** — Grief manifests not only through bereavement after a death, but also through relationship breakups and the loss of personal identity or life direction.
* **Resistance to Rational Advice** — Acute grief temporarily overrides logical reasoning, making intellectual advice ineffective until the emotional depth of the pain is fully experienced and processed.
<FollowUp label="Want to continue to Part 6 of the transcript?" query="Please provide the detailed walkthrough for Part 6 of this transcript video."/>
[01:19:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4751s) Emotional Processing, Surrendering to Grief, and Facing Mortality
Dr. Tara Swart discusses the intricate, often painful process of working through deep emotional trauma and grief. Addressing the tendency people have to run away from painful feelings—whether by throwing themselves relentlessly into work or overindulging in partying—she emphasizes that true healing requires going all the way to the bottom of the emotional hole and fully processing the experience. Reflecting on her own life, Dr. Swart recalls the painful period when her first marriage ended while she was simultaneously transitioning careers. She notes that without her psychiatric training and deep understanding of the mind, the sheer weight of that life crisis could have easily landed her in a psychiatric ward.
She stresses that attempting to gloss over grief or divert attention by showering care on others or immediately attempting to transform the pain into outward accomplishments (like writing a book) without processing the underlying emotional turmoil is dangerous. Deep grief forces individuals to confront their own mortality; failing to surrender to these feelings causes them to resurfare and cause harm later in life. Supporting someone through grief requires allowing them the space to go where they need to emotionally, followed by gentle check-ins to gauge whether they are reaching acceptance and resolution.
- Suppressing or avoiding grief leads to delayed psychological consequences later in life.
- Facing loss involves confronting fundamental existential fears and human mortality.
- Supporting others through grief requires patience and gentle inquiries into their internal healing rather than pushing immediate positivity.
---
[01:21:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4879s) Optimization of Sleep and Temperature Regulation
Steven Bartlett takes a brief break from the main discussion to share an insight regarding sleep hygiene and physiological regulation, highlighting his partnership with Eight Sleep. Citing discussions with sleep experts such as Matthew Walker, Bartlett details how crucial bed and ambient room temperature are for achieving optimal, restorative sleep cycles.
Proper sleep physiology mimics natural environmental changes: the bed surface should start out cool upon entering, drop to a lower temperature during early deep sleep stages, and gradually warm up toward the morning to signal waking. Bartlett highlights how aligning sleeping conditions with evolutionary thermal patterns dramatically improves sleep quality and overall physiological well-being.
- Ambient and bed temperatures need to fluctuate across sleep cycles to match natural evolutionary rhythms.
- Initial cool conditions promote rapid sleep onset, lower temperatures sustain deep sleep, and gradual warming facilitates awakening.
- Discount offered via `[eightsleep.com/steven](https://eightsleep.com/steven)` ($150 off the Pod Cover).
---
[01:22:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4956s) Complete Nutritional Support with Huel
Continuing the contextual pause, Bartlett shares his experience with nutritional habits and his involvement with Huel as an early investor and board member. He addresses the challenge of maintaining balanced nutrition amidst a demanding schedule and highlights how various product formats meet different daily needs.
While Bartlett relies heavily on ready-to-drink options during busy days, he points out alternative solutions like complete meal ranges designed to provide essential vitamins and minerals in minutes. For those seeking balanced nutrition without complex meal planning, starting with curated bundles helps identify habits that fit individual routines.
- Balanced nutrition relies on a consistent mix of essential vitamins, minerals, protein, and complex carbohydrates.
- A recommended starting point for finding the right fit is the best-seller bundle via the link in the video description.
---
[01:23:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5020s) Mechanisms of Neuroplasticity: Myelination, Synaptic Connection, and Neurogenesis
Returning to neuroscience, Dr. Swart outlines the three core mechanisms that drive structural and functional neuroplasticity in the human brain. The first mechanism is **myelination**, the process by which a fatty sheath coats frequently used neural pathways to convert them into high-speed circuits. Dr. Swart compares this to repetitive weight training or Bartlett’s daily interview practice; repeating a skill reinforces the pathway into a functional "superpower." From an evolutionary perspective, fast pathways govern survival instincts (like snatching a hand back from fire), while slower pathways process pain to prevent immediate physical incapacitation.
The second and most common mechanism is **synaptic connection**, where existing neurons form new links and pathways. This process requires conscious mental effort and often feels like hard work, but it allows the brain to acquire complex new competencies over time.
The third mechanism—and the rarest in the adult brain—is **neurogenesis**, the growth of new fully formed neurons from embryonic precursor cells. Occurring primarily in the hippocampus where memories are formed, neurogenesis relies heavily on **Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF)**. BDNF production is driven primarily by two lifestyle habits: regular aerobic exercise and consuming dark-skinned foods.
- **Myelination:** Fatty insulation wraps active neural circuits, speeding up signal transmission for honed skills and survival reflexes.
- **Synaptic Connection:** Existing neurons construct new bridge pathways, requiring focused cognitive effort and practice.
- **Neurogenesis:** Unspecialized embryonic nerve cells mature into functional neurons via BDNF, predominantly in the memory-center hippocampus.
---
[01:26:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5161s) Exercise Dynamics, BDNF, and the Power of Motor Visualization
Dr. Swart reveals a fascinating insight into how exercise habits influence neural cell turnover. For individuals who engage in regular aerobic exercise, the rate at which embryonic cells transition into fully mature, connected neurons sits around 13% to 14%. However, when someone transitions from a sedentary lifestyle back into aerobic training, that cell turnover rate surges to roughly 30%. This sharp spike in neurogenesis acts as an adaptive response, accelerating the brain's capacity to absorb new information and form memories.
Dr. Swart then shares a classic motor-visualization study that demonstrates how thoughts directly influence physical physiology. In the study, researchers tracked two groups performing weight training on finger and elbow muscles over two weeks:
- **Physical Exercise Group:** Lifted weights physically over two weeks and gained roughly a **40% increase in muscle mass**.
- **Visualization Group:** Performed no physical exercise, instead spending two weeks purely *visualizing* lifting the weights with focused intention. This group achieved an astounding **13% increase in muscle mass**.
This striking result illustrates how focused mental rehearsal activates neuromuscular pathways, stimulating physical adaptations in the body without physical strain.
- Transitioning from sedentary activity to aerobic exercise boosts neurogenesis turnover from ~13–14% up to 30%.
- Mental imagery triggers neural firing patterns that drive physical muscular adaptation.
- Aerobic exercise directly enhances cognitive flexibility, memory retention, and learning capacity.
---
[01:29:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5395s) Nutritional Neuroscience: Anthocyanins and Dark-Skinned Foods
Dr. Swart explains how dietary choices directly influence brain function and neuroplasticity. While maintaining a balanced, plant-focused diet is foundational, selecting darker-pigmented variations of foods provides higher concentrations of powerful antioxidants known as **anthocyanins**, which actively promote neurogenesis.
```
┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
│ ANTHOCYAIN-RICH DIETARY SWAPS │
├───────────────────────────────┬─────────────────────────────────┤
│ Standard / Light Option │ High-Anthocyanin Dark Option │
├───────────────────────────────┼─────────────────────────────────┤
│ White Beans │ Black Beans │
│ Strawberries │ Blueberries │
│ Milk Chocolate │ Dark Chocolate │
│ Green Broccoli │ Purple Sprouting Broccoli │
│ Regular Tea │ High-Quality Black Coffee │
└───────────────────────────────┴─────────────────────────────────┘
```
By substituting standard ingredients with dark-skinned alternatives, individuals supply their brains with the precise chemical compounds needed to protect cellular structures and support BDNF-driven neural growth.
- **Anthocyanins:** Dark pigments in plant skins that cross the blood-brain barrier to combat oxidative stress and stimulate BDNF production.
- Choosing deep purple, black, or dark red foods maximizes nutritional support for structural brain changes.
---
[01:30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5444s) The Foundations of Brain Health and Advanced Neuroplastic Strategies
To create optimal biological conditions for neuroplasticity, Dr. Swart outlines fundamental baseline health habits before attempting advanced optimization protocols:
1. **Sleep Regularity:** Aim for roughly eight hours of sleep nightly while maintaining consistent sleep and wake times within a one-hour window (e.g., going to bed between 10:00 PM and 11:00 PM).
2. **Moderate Movement:** Engage in regular, gentle physical activity. Excessive high-intensity training can spike cortisol levels, which inhibits brain plasticity.
3. **Dietary Diversity:** Consume at least 30 different plant foods per week, prioritizing varied colors and dark pigments.
4. **Hydration and Stress Management:** Keep stress levels low through meditation or removing stressors, as elevated cortisol disrupts learning pathways.
Only after establishing these foundational habits should one move to **Level 2** strategies like **time-restricted eating** (e.g., fasting within a 12:4 or 16:8 window, such as eating between 12:00 PM and 8:00 PM). Fasting helps stabilize blood sugar and induces mild cellular stress that builds neural resilience. However, if applied to an already exhausted or highly stressed body, fasting adds undue strain rather than benefit.
Finally, driving structural neuroplasticity requires taking on significant cognitive challenges that break existing neural pathways—such as learning a complex new skill like DJing or mastering a new language.
- Fasting regulates blood glucose and promotes cellular resilience, but only when foundational sleep and stress levels are managed.
- High-intensity workouts spike cortisol; moderate, steady movement is more effective for sustaining neuroplasticity.
- Learning complex motor-auditory skills (like DJing or playing an instrument) challenges and restructures adult neural architecture.
<FollowUp label="Want to continue with Part 7 of the transcript?" query="Please provide the detailed, faithful walkthrough for Part 7 of this transcript."/>
[01:33:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5621s) Harnessing Metacognition and the Science of Affirmations
Addressing self-esteem and confidence requires disrupting entrenched internal narratives. Many individuals struggle with a recurring negative thought loop—often rooted in perfectionism—that fuels self-doubt. By using metacognition to observe and understand one's own thinking patterns, individuals can actively reframe negative self-talk into realistic, empowering statements. Consistently repeating a counter-affirmation physically rewires neural pathways, gradually weakening the old, negative brain circuitry through neuroplasticity.
Dr. Swart emphasizes that affirmations must remain grounded in personal truth to be effective. Overly superficial or outlandish claims fail because the subconscious brain rejects them as inauthentic. Instead of adopting exaggerated claims, focusing on core emotional needs—such as repeating simple, stabilizing phrases like "I'm safe" or "I'm okay"—calms the nervous system without triggering cognitive dissonance.
- **Metacognition in practice:** Identifying negative inner dialogue and intentionally substituting it with supportive, plausible framing (e.g., changing "It's not going to be perfect" to "It doesn't have to be perfect, but it's going to be great").
- **Subconscious rejection:** Exaggerated mantras like "I am rich" or "Everyone loves me" fail because they lack authentic alignment and require actionable effort rather than passive thought.
- **Root emotional grounding:** Grounding phrases like "I'm safe" directly counteract baseline stress and anxiety.
---
[01:37:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5825s) Science-Based Manifestation and Action Boards
Manifestation is often dismissed as pseudo-scientific, but cognitive science offers a clear explanation for how it functions. True manifestation relies on changing internal belief structures, which in turn alters external behavior and decision-making. Vision boards—more accurately described as "action boards"—serve as visual representations of desired goals, but they require intentional effort and action to bring about real-world results.
> "Your brain is the source of you being able to attract everything that you want into your life... It's to do with the changes that you make based on your thought process."
Far from relying on external atmospheric forces, successful manifestation aligns subconscious focus with daily habits. Action boards keep long-term priorities top-of-mind, enabling the brain to recognize subtle opportunities and make choices that move an individual toward their goals.
- **Cognitive framework:** Grounding the law of attraction in psychology and neuroscience rather than mystical forces.
- **Action over wishful thinking:** Visual tools must be paired with clear, deliberate behavior to yield results.
- **Self-agency:** Recognizing the brain as the primary driver of life outcomes increases personal empowerment and accountability.
---
[01:39:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5952s) Romantic Attraction, Psychological Alignment, and Hormones
When seeking a partner, people often compile extensive lists of desired traits without considering whether they embody those same qualities themselves. Healthy relationships require psychological alignment; individuals attract partners who match both their level of personal growth and their unresolved emotional wounds. Sustainable attraction relies on cultivating the value one brings to a relationship rather than fixating solely on personal demands.
| Orientation | Primary Focus | Hormonal State | Relational Outcome |
|:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- |
| **Demand-Driven** | "What can I get?" | Elevated **Cortisol** (Stress) | Friction, insecurity, and dynamic imbalance |
| **Offer-Driven** | "What can I give?" | Elevated **Oxytocin** (Bonding) | Trust, authentic connection, and mutual attraction |
Shifting focus from selfish demands to genuine contribution alters baseline physiology. Approachability and warmth are driven by oxytocin, making an offer-minded mindset far more naturally attractive than a needy, stress-induced state.
- **Value reflection:** Attracting a partner with traits like discipline, honesty, and health requires cultivating those exact characteristics in oneself.
- **The mirror principle:** Relationships naturally reflect an individual's current level of emotional maturity and unresolved psychological wounds.
- **Long-term equilibrium:** Over extended periods, career advancement and personal relationships align closely with the genuine value an individual delivers to others.
---
[01:43:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6222s) Neurodivergence, Diagnosis Trends, and Ancient Wisdom
Rising diagnoses of neurodivergent conditions like ADHD and autism stem from a combination of heightened clinical awareness and modern environmental stressors. Advanced diagnostic tools allow clinicians to identify traits that were previously overlooked or misattributed to personal shortcomings. Furthermore, the rapid pace of modern technology and constant sensory input place unprecedented demands on the human brain, making neurodivergent traits far more noticeable within traditional academic and professional environments.
Dr. Swart suggests that certain variations in neural processing may represent natural adaptive responses to an increasingly complex world. Drawing parallels to indigenous cultures, she notes that historical societies often integrated diverse cognitive styles and identities directly into the community without stigmatization.
- **Diagnostic precision:** Increased rates of ADHD and autism reflect better diagnostic frameworks rather than purely modern pathology.
- **Hereditary patterns:** Clinical histories frequently reveal undiagnosed neurodivergent traits across earlier generations.
- **Ancient cultural integration:** Many historical and indigenous societies accommodated diverse personal identities and cognitive differences seamlessly within their social structures.
---
[01:47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6450s) Somatic Practices and Calming the Nervous System
Ancient traditions often incorporate physical practices that directly benefit brain health and nervous system regulation. Practices such as humming, chanting, and rhythmic vocalization—found across traditions from Ayurveda to Native American cultures—stimulate the vagus nerve, reducing physiological stress and supporting emotional balance.
- **Vagal stimulation:** Humming and chanting physically stimulate the vagus nerve, helping transition the body from a sympathetic ("fight-or-flight") state to a parasympathetic ("rest-and-digest") state.
- **Creative expression:** Rhythmic vocal practices offer an accessible method for lowering stress markers and increasing cognitive clarity.
- **Cross-cultural validity:** The persistent use of vocal practices across diverse ancient cultures aligns directly with modern neurological understandings of stress management.
<ElicitationsGroup message="Explore related insights from Dr. Tara Swart's research:">
<Elicitation label="How neuroplasticity rewires habit loops" query="How does neuroplasticity allow us to break bad habits according to neuroscience?"/>
<Elicitation label="The physiological impact of stress on the body" query="What happens to the body and brain during chronic stress and high cortisol levels?"/>
</ElicitationsGroup>
[01:48:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6486s) Parasympathetic Regulation and Indigenous Breathwork
The conversation touches on how ancient wisdom and indigenous traditions utilized vocalizations and breathing techniques to regulate the nervous system. Dr. Tara Swart highlights methods such as hums directed toward the back of the throat or felt directly between the lips. When Steven Bartlett jokingly reacts to the sound effects and predicts they will end up in the episode's promotional trailer, Dr. Swart laughs it off and explains the underlying mechanism: these simple, accessible practices—which anyone can easily do anywhere, even on public transit like the London Underground—actively stimulate and regulate the parasympathetic nervous system, inducing a state of calm and bodily balance.
[01:48:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6532s) The Counterclockwise Study: Mindset and Physical Aging
Turning to the subject of longevity and longevity mindsets, Steven brings up Dr. Swart's writings on "psychological priming" and how beliefs regarding aging directly affect physical capabilities. Dr. Swart shares one of her favorite scientific studies, Ellen Langer's famous 1979 "Counterclockwise" experiment involving octogenarians split into three distinct groups over a one-week trial.
* **The Control Group:** Lived normally for a week with no environmental or psychological interventions.
* **The Reminiscing Group:** Spent time throughout the week actively discussing and reminiscing about their lives when they were in their 60s.
* **The Reliving Group:** Were driven to retrofitted homes decorated to match how their environments looked 20 years prior. They read newspapers dated from two decades earlier, looked at photographs of their younger selves, and were treated as fully autonomous adults—forced to carry their own suitcases upstairs without assistance.
The physiological results following just one week were remarkable. The individuals in the third group displayed improved posture, actually standing measurably taller. Their musculoskeletal coordination improved, and unbiased observers rating before-and-after photographs judged them to look noticeably younger in the photos taken after the experiment than in those taken upon arrival. While the reminiscing group saw slight improvements, environmental and behavioral immersion created the most dramatic physical transformation.
[01:51:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6680s) Mind Over Presbyopia: Changing Vision Through Refusal
Dr. Swart illustrates how internal expectations dictate physical decline by recalling a personal experience with her optician. Of similar age and Indian heritage, her optician cautioned her that she would likely need reading glasses the following year due to natural ocular aging. Dr. Swart firmly rejected the premise, stating her eyes would not decline simply because of her age. When she returned a year later for her annual eye exam, the optician tested her vision, spun around in his chair in disbelief, and revealed that her eyesight had not merely stabilized—it had actually improved.
She explains that when reading print or looking at her phone, she consciously resisted the temptation to hold items further away, refusing to adapt her behavior to an assumed physical limitation. By maintaining her behavioral standards rather than surrendering to social norms about getting older, she avoided forcing her brain and eyes into typical age-related decline patterns.
[01:53:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6788s) The Priming Effect of Language on Action
To demonstrate the unconscious control language exerts over behavior, Dr. Swart details a psychological experiment conducted on medical students in Florida. Participants were instructed to walk between five rooms and construct sentences from five words placed on a desk in each room, believing the test evaluated cognitive sentence construction.
In one specific room, the word choices subtly revolved around retirement themes: *Florida*, *beach*, *sunshine*, *walk*, and *bungalow*. Upon exiting that particular room, the students unconsciously walked at a significantly slower pace compared to when leaving the other rooms. The mere subconscious association with retirement-related words primed their physical bodies to slow down, proving how profoundly language shapes behavior.
[01:54:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6840s) Empowering Language and Reframing Priorities
Steven reflects on his own linguistic habits, citing episodes from his YouTube vlog, *Behind The Diary*, where he caught himself using disempowering phrasing. He recalls catching himself saying, "I really need a coffee this morning," while filming on set for *Dragons' Den*, only to pause and correct himself. He realized that casually claiming to "need" something makes a person a slave to that habit, instilling an internal sense of lack. Dr. Swart agrees, noting that shifting one's vocabulary to "I am choosing to treat myself to a coffee" restores agency and personal authority.
"There's something about this casual use of the word need throughout our lives that is disempowering me. It's making me a slave to the coffee."
This principle extends directly to personal accountability and lifestyle habits. When individuals say, "I don't have time to exercise," they attribute their choices to external forces. Reframing the sentence to "Exercise is not my priority right now" acknowledges personal choice—whether that priority is taking care of a child or working a job to pay a mortgage—replacing victimhood with empowerment.
[01:57:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7032s) The Power of Visualization and Gratitude
As the discussion draws toward a close, Steven asks for a practical first step for anyone feeling stuck in rigid habits—such as cab drivers he frequently meets who dream of starting businesses but feel trapped by routine. Dr. Swart delivers a simple yet transformative daily protocol:
1. **Clarify the Goal:** Sit down and clearly define the precise outcome desired.
2. **Sensory Visualization:** Spend 5 minutes fully immersing the senses in that reality—seeing it, feeling it in the body, hearing it, and tasting it as if it has already occurred.
3. **Give Thanks:** Offer deep gratitude for those accomplishments as existing truths.
This practice transitions the brain out of a survival-driven fear state (dominated by cortisol and threat detection) and into a trust state, creating the neurobiological foundation required to adopt new habits and make meaningful life changes.
[01:59:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7192s) Closing Tradition: Confronting Internal Ambition and Past Expectations
In keeping with the podcast's tradition, Steven reads a question left by the previous guest: "What could you choose to change and choose to feel great about?"
Dr. Swart answers that she wants to fully embrace her identity as a truly creative person. She reveals a deeply personal story about growing up in an immigrant household: as a young student, her English teacher recognized her exceptional talent in drama, suggesting she read English at Oxford and attend the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art (RADA). However, when she shared this dream at home, her father adamantly refused, declaring, "Over my dead body. You'll go to medical school, and then after that, you can do whatever you want."
Dr. Swart explains that her parents believed financial stability and regular paychecks were the ultimate keys to happiness, especially given the lack of South Asian representation on television at the time. Her family viewed her academic achievements—earning both an MD and a PhD—as an attempt to fulfill the unachieved educational potential of her grandmother, who grew up in an Indian village without access to schooling. Breaking away from clinical medicine to become an entrepreneur was frightening, but her perspective shifted completely when she realized her earning potential was uncapped—marked by a pivotal moment when she invoiced in a single month what she previously earned in an entire year as a medical doctor.
[02:03:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7394s) Reinvent Yourself Podcast and Closing Thoughts
Steven Bartlett expresses his excitement for Dr. Tara Swart’s upcoming podcast release, emphasizing that if it is anything like their present discussion, it will deliver "tremendous, tremendous value." Dr. Tara confirms that Season 2 of her podcast, *Reinvent Yourself with Dr. Tara*, is set to launch on October 4th, while noting that Season 1 is already available for listeners who want to catch up. She shares that the second season will delve deeply into combining neuroscience with "ancient wisdom stuff," a direction Steven finds particularly thrilling.
As the conversation wraps up, Steven makes a playful observation about Dr. Tara’s last name, pointing out that "there's actually the word art in your name." Dr. Tara, surprised and delighted, responds, "Oh, that's so cute," admitting she had never noticed that before. Steven uses this moment to express his enthusiasm for their next conversation and to see how she continues to pursue that creative spark, adding that it has been a "wonderful honor to have met you today and to learn from you" before concluding the interview.
- **Upcoming Release Date:** October 4th for Season 2 of *Reinvent Yourself with Dr. Tara*.
- **Podcast Focus:** Combining ancient wisdom with neuroscience and personal transformation.
## Notable quotes
> [01:04:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3854s) You are basically the sum of every decision that you've made in your life. — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:13:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4388s) You aren't born with the genes that your parents had when they were born. You're born with the expression of the genes that your parents had around the time of conception. — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4686s) To ever heal from grief, you have to go to the bottom of the hole. — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:37:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5825s) Your brain is the source of you being able to attract everything that you want into your life... It's to do with the changes that you make based on your thought process. — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:54:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6840s) There's something about this casual use of the word need throughout our lives that is disempowering me. It's making me a slave to the coffee. — Steven Bartlett
> [01:59:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7192s) Over my dead body. You'll go to medical school, and then after that, you can do whatever you want. — Dr. Tara Swart's father
> [01:59:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7192s) What could you choose to change and choose to feel great about? — Previous guest
## Mentioned
Dr. Tara Swart, Steven Bartlett, Matthew Walker, Eight Sleep, Huel, Ellen Langer, RADA (Royal Academy of Dramatic Art), University of Oxford, The Source, Behind The Diary, Dragons' Den, Reinvent Yourself with Dr. Tara, The Diary Of A CEO
Neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart argues that mental states directly drive physical biology, showing how chronic stress chemically spreads across social environments, while intentional sleep, nutrition, and neuroplastic practices can physically reshape the brain and body.
Stress Contagion and the Cortisol Cascade (16:03)
According to Dr. Swart, stress is not purely psychological; it operates as a chemical reality that communicates interpersonally. Cortisol evaporates through sweat and radiates roughly an arm's length, allowing nearby individuals to absorb the hormone through their skin and experience involuntary stress spikes. This contagion functions hierarchically: just as stress in a silverback gorilla cascades downward through a troop, an executive or senior leader's unmanaged stress reliably depletes subordinate team members, even if bad news or negative emotions are concealed.
Physiologically, prolonged cortisol elevation keeps the autonomic nervous system in an inflammatory survival state. This chronic activation prompts the body to store visceral abdominal fat, disrupts the brain-gut axis to produce acid reflux and indigestion, and suppresses the immune system until a high-pressure cycle ends—often triggering sudden illness when individuals finally relax. Swart notes that because cortisol dries physical tissue and degrades the skin barrier, chronic stress frequently surfaces as eczema or inflammation. She identifies intense aerobic exercise (sweating out cortisol) and cognitive externalization (journaling or therapy) as key mechanisms to clear excess circulating hormones.
Glymphatic Cleansing, Sleep Duration, and Proximity (23:19)
Swart emphasizes that the brain relies on non-negotiable biological maintenance windows, citing population studies showing that the average adult requires approximately eight hours and fifteen minutes of sleep (roughly nine hours in bed). Research identifies the glymphatic system as a glial-cell-driven network that deploys fluid pulses during deep sleep to wash away neurotoxic waste products, including amyloid plaques, tau proteins, and neurofibrillary tangles linked to neurodegenerative conditions. Completing this cellular detox requires seven to eight continuous hours, with side sleeping providing optimal neck vein alignment for fluid drainage.
Swart also challenges the practice of 'sleep divorce' (spouses sleeping separately for convenience). From an evolutionary perspective, co-sleeping provided thermal warmth and triggered oxytocin release to foster group security. Referencing heart rate variability (HRV) tracking, Swart observes that nocturnal proximity and touch, such as skin-to-skin contact, measurably heighten physiological resilience and activate the parasympathetic nervous system, countering the isolation common in post-pandemic work environments.
Neuroplasticity, Behavioral Rewiring, and Visualization (64:14)
Modern neuroscience disproves the notion that the adult brain is rigidly hardwired, showing instead that neural pathways remain soft-wired and malleable past age 65 if provided sufficient stimulation. Intensive cognitive learning—such as acquiring a second language—upgrades executive functions like emotional regulation, problem-solving, and bias suppression. To rewire maladaptive habits, Swart outlines a four-step framework: raising awareness of underlying beliefs, focusing attention on past triggers, engaging in deliberate practice of alternate behaviors, and maintaining structured accountability.
Physical biology also responds directly to focused thought and metabolic inputs. Swart cites research where individuals who solely visualized weightlifting routines for two weeks gained 13% in muscle mass, while another group performing physical training gained 40%. Neurogenesis is further modulated by lifestyle transitions: moving from a sedentary state to regular aerobic exercise can raise neural cell turnover from baseline levels of 13–14% up to 30%, driven by brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). Dietary support, specifically consuming anthocyanin-dense, dark-pigmented foods (such as black beans, blueberries, and dark chocolate), provides antioxidant compounds capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier to reinforce cellular plasticity.
Epigenetic Trauma, Priming, and Somatic Regulation (73:08)
Swart distinguishes between psychological generational trauma and intergenerational epigenetic inheritance. Citing historical crises like the Dutch Hunger Winter and the Holocaust, she explains that severe environmental stress alters phenotypic gene expression without modifying the underlying DNA sequence. These altered stress responses can transmit across three or more generations. In utero, maternal cortisol crosses the placenta directly into fetal circulation, potentially priming developing nervous systems for heightened vulnerability to anxiety and mood disorders.
Conversely, physiological and linguistic priming can improve regulation. In Ellen Langer’s 1979 'Counterclockwise' study, elderly men placed in an environment mimicking their past displayed measurable improvements in posture, manual dexterity, and perceived youth after one week. Linguistic priming similarly steers performance: exposure to retirement-themed vocabulary unconsciously slowed student walking speeds. To counter sympathetic nervous system overdrive, Swart recommends ancient somatic techniques, such as rhythmic humming or chanting, which mechanically stimulate the vagus nerve to restore autonomic equilibrium.
Dr. Swart balances evolutionary biology and laboratory findings to demonstrate that cognitive patterns, emotional boundaries, and physical health are fundamentally interdependent. While recognizing that early conditioning and epigenetic vulnerabilities establish strong behavioral defaults, she maintains that targeted neuroplastic interventions, sleep discipline, and somatic practices offer reliable pathways to systematically rebuild physiological resilience.
## Background
该视频由知名访谈频道 The Diary Of A CEO（主持人为史蒂芬·巴特利特，Steven Bartlett）于 2023 年 9 月 25 日发布在 YouTube 平台上。页面简介指出，本次对谈邀请了神经科学家、医学博士塔拉·斯瓦特（Dr Tara Swart），深入探讨大脑如何深远影响个体的身体健康、人际关系与整体福祉，内容涵盖压力传播、腹部脂肪消除、记忆力提升、神经可塑性以及愿景具象化（显化）的科学原理。
## TL;DR
塔拉·斯瓦特博士在访谈中揭示了身心连接的神经生理机制，指出长期压力分泌的皮质醇不仅会随汗液渗出并在社交场域中物理传染他人，更会促使身体囤积难以消除的顽固腹部脂肪。她从脑科学角度解析了深度侧卧睡眠中胶质淋巴系统排毒预防阿尔茨海默病的机理，以及脑肠轴将隐性生活经验转化为具身直觉的底层逻辑。斯瓦特博士打破了大脑成年后即定型的认知误区，详述了利用髓鞘化、突触连接与神经发生等神经可塑性机制，指导大众如何通过提高觉察、刻意练习、调整内在语言和科学具象化冥想来走出代际创伤并彻底重塑不良习惯。
## Atmosphere & style
整场对话兼具前沿认知神经科学的严谨锋芒与深入潜意识的情感温热。史蒂芬·巴特利特务实、敏锐且不乏风趣的追问，与斯瓦特博士从容优雅、条理分明的专业解答形成了高度共振的对谈张力。叙事节奏从金融危机下身心割裂的沉重现实，平稳过渡到亲密触碰中的激素涌流，并在末尾嘉宾坦陈未竟戏剧梦想与移民家庭创伤的独白中推向温情高潮；听众既能收获颠覆认知的高密度科学干货，亦能切实感受到被科学理解、接纳与赋能的释然力量。
## Bulletin
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=0s) 神经科学家指出压力荷尔蒙皮质醇具备物理传染性，不仅通过汗液挥发渗透给他人，还会诱发生存机制引发顽固腹部脂肪堆积。
- [25:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1538s) 睡眠期间的脑部胶质淋巴系统需要连续7至8小时深度睡眠才能彻底冲刷Tau蛋白和β-淀粉样蛋白斑块，且侧卧是最佳冲洗体位。
- [59:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3576s) 神经可塑性在25岁至65岁之间依然活跃，通过高注意力强度的认知挑战、有氧运动及深色表皮食物（花青素）可显著促进神经发生与脑源性神经营养因子分泌。
- [01:27:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5257s) 科学实验证明纯心智观想两周可使举重肌群质量提升13%，潜意识心态与语言启动效应更可直接影响人体的生理协调性、步速乃至视力衰退进程。
## Key takeaways
- [59:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3576s) 成人的神经系统并非终身定型，在25岁至65岁及以上仍可通过打破固有自动化回路、接受高强度认知挑战激活神经可塑性并提升执行功能。
- [16:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1005s) 皮质醇会随汗液向外散发并穿透周围人的皮肤，领导者的压力会沿组织层级单向外溢并对下属产生严重的生理毒害。
- [19:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1165s) 压力导致的腹部内脏脂肪是机体应对远古饥荒的本能机制，单纯节食与加大运动无法解决，必须首先降低皮质醇水平。
- [25:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1538s) 理想睡眠时长为8小时15分钟，连续7至8小时的睡眠配合侧卧姿势，可激活胶质淋巴系统强力冲洗阿兹海默症与帕金森病的致病蛋白斑块。
- [07:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=466s) 人际互动中的身体接触、共同大笑以及右眼对左眼的眼神注视，能迅速刺激催产素分泌，降低心理戒备并重建身心韧性。
- [38:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2284s) 直觉并非虚构预感，而是大脑将海量潜意识生活经验逐层下沉至边缘系统、脑干乃至肠道神经元后形成的具身化智慧反馈。
- [40:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2419s) 长期处于工作重压下的人皮质醇会强行压制免疫系统，导致免疫防线在休假松懈时出现窗口期并集中爆发疾病。
- [01:24:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5074s) 神经可塑性依托于髓鞘化、突触重连和神经发生三大机制，其中有氧运动与富含花青素的深色食材是提升BDNF的核心动力。
- [01:07:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4029s) 重塑不良行为习惯需遵循三步法：看清底层核心信念、将选择与现实后果强绑定、在具体情境中进行刻意练习并配合外部问责机制。
- [01:13:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4387s) 代际创伤能够通过表观遗传学在不改变DNA序列的前提下调控基因开关，但后天教育、冥想与安全关怀能再次重塑这些神经回路。
- [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4686s) 面对悲伤与重大心碎必须经历“坠入谷底”并彻底消化情绪，任何借工作麻痹或粉饰太平的逃避行为都将导致情绪在未来加倍反扑。
- [01:35:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5728s) 真正的自我确认语应当通过元认知击穿深层生存不安全感，而非对着镜子高喊浮夸虚假的财富与美貌鸡汤。
- [01:37:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5825s) “显化法则”的本质是认知科学而非玄学磁场，将愿景板转化为行动板能促使大脑对目标保持高度警觉并落实于现实行动。
- [01:42:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6124s) 亲密关系中存在心理发展水平与创伤维度的对等吸引，摆脱索取心态转为给予心态能促使体内由皮质醇主导转向催产素主导。
- [01:51:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6668s) 语言启动效应能在无意识间左右身体机能，将“我需要”改为“我选择”、拒绝顺从预设的老化标签，可实际改善身体机能甚至逆转视力老化。
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=0s) 意念增肌与大脑的可塑潜力
在这段充满冲击力的开场中，塔拉·斯瓦特博士（Dr. Tara Swart）——兼具神经科学家、医学博士、高管顾问及畅销书作者多重身份——分享了一项关于举重运动员的惊人实验：在一项为期两周的研究中，运动员们完全不碰哑铃或杠铃，仅仅坐着在脑海中生动地“视觉化”自己正在举重，最终肌肉量竟然增加了 13%。这个实验揭示了人类大脑潜藏着远未被挖掘的巨大潜能。
随后，对话迅速切入压力对人体的深层影响。压力并不仅停留在情绪层面，它具有物理传染性：主要压力荷尔蒙皮质醇（Cortisol）会随着汗液渗出体表并扩散到身体周围，甚至能穿透周围人的皮肤，直接对他人产生生理影响。更为残酷的是，作为一种原始的生存适应机制，皮质醇会促使脂肪顽固地堆积在腹部，形成极难消除的“内脏脂肪”。
除了生理上的相互渗透，人类在心理上同样存在强大的社会传染效应。统计数据显示，人会不自觉地与心理状态相似的人靠近；如果身边的朋友发生婚变，你在接下来一年内离婚的概率也会显著上升。斯瓦特博士指出，人类大脑虽然在 25 岁左右停止主动发育，但在 25 岁至 65 岁之间，只要施加足够强烈的刺激去迫使大脑重组，我们依然能持续提升最高阶的脑功能——包括更出色的情绪调节、复杂问题解决能力、灵活思维以及克服无意识偏见的能力。
- **意念增肌实验**：举重受试者两周内不进行任何实际举重训练，仅靠坐着想象（视觉化），肌肉量实现了 13% 的增长。
- **压力的生理传播**：皮质醇通过汗液向体外散发，能穿透近距离接触者的皮肤产生连锁反应。
- **腹部脂肪与生存机制**：压力诱发的皮质醇高企，会直接导致极难减掉的腹部脂肪囤积。
- **大脑可塑性黄金期**：25 岁之后的大脑并未定型，在 25 至 65 岁之间通过高强度学习和挑战，依然能够重塑大脑结构与高阶认知功能。
---
### [01:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=98s) 身心割裂的盲区：金融危机与交易大厅的猝死悲剧
史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）向斯瓦特博士提问：在她的研究和演讲中，究竟在正面挑战哪些根深蒂固且有害的传统偏见？斯瓦特博士回忆起自己在 2008 年全球金融危机期间与金融机构打交道的经历。当时她面临的最大阻力，是精英群体对“身心连接”（Brain-body connection）的极度无知与漠视。那些顶尖高管们在行为上宛如一群“断头生物”，把身体仅仅当成把大脑从一场会议搬运到另一场会议的交通工具。他们既严重糟蹋自己的身体健康，又完全没有意识到：公司支付巨额薪酬雇佣的是他们的大脑，而他们却连睡眠、健康饮食、水分补给、避免久坐以及压力管理等最基础的大脑运行环境都无法保障。
这种身心割裂导致了致命的灾难。斯瓦特博士提到，当年她与一家大银行发生激烈冲突的导火索，是交易大厅里不断有交易员突发心肌梗死猝死。银行高层希望斯瓦特博士以退役医学博士的身份介入，去解决那些“生理层面的毛病”。然而斯瓦特博士态度坚决地回绝并指出：如果不解决造成这些生理崩溃的心理与情绪诱因，纯粹的生理干预根本无济于事，而银行高管层当时完全无法理解这层因果关系。
---
### [03:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=212s) 皮质醇的毒性侵蚀：没有三高的心肌梗死
当史蒂芬追问，如果当时全权由她负责阻止交易员猝死，她会从何处着手时，斯瓦特博士详细拆解了压力在体内的生理级联反应。无论是繁重的心理情感重负，还是高强度的差旅奔波，都会直接刺激肾上腺分泌皮质醇。皮质醇随着血液奔流穿透整个身体和大脑，而大脑中遍布着监测生存威胁的受体。
在正常的 24 小时昼夜节律中，不同年龄和性别的皮质醇都有特定的基准波动区间。遭遇急性挑战时，皮质醇快速飙升以调动身心潜能应对挑战，随后回落，这是完全健康的适应性机制。然而，如果长期处于超负荷运转，皮质醇常年盘踞在警戒线之上，大脑中的受体就会误以为个体正面临迫在眉睫的生死存亡威胁，进而触发一系列激素级联反应。皮质醇会引发体内全面的慢性炎症，包括血管系统和心脏周围组织的严重炎症。斯瓦特博士强调，当年在交易大厅倒下的那些猝死者，很多人根本没有吸烟习惯，也没有高血压或高胆固醇病史，夺走他们生命的纯粹就是无休止的压力。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 慢性压力引发心血管炎症的生理级联路径
accDescr: 展示心理情绪负荷如何通过肾上腺分泌皮质醇并最终引发全身及血管炎症
subgraph Trigger["压力源触发"]
A["心理与情绪超负荷 / 高频差旅"] --> B["肾上腺过度激活"]
end
subgraph Hormone["激素失衡"]
B --> C["皮质醇持续超标分泌"]
C --> D["大脑受体误判为持续生存威胁"]
end
subgraph Pathology["病理后果"]
D --> E["全身慢性炎症反应"]
E --> F["血管系统与心脏周围炎症"]
F --> G["无传统心血管病史下的猝死"]
end
```
---
### [04:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=290s) 压力的主观感知与“好压力”的谬误
史蒂芬提出了一个认知冲突：他在著名的 TED 演讲和学术研究中看到，压力似乎具有高度的主观性，取决于个人对事件的解释。同一种处境，有人痛苦不堪，有人却甘之如饴；甚至有理论声称，只有当你“相信压力有害”时，压力才会引发心血管疾病和炎症反应。
斯瓦特博士给出了自己的医学定义：压力，本质上是你主观感受到的身心、情绪或精神负荷超过了自身的承受极限。因此在感知层面上，它确实是主观的。但针对商业管理界常说的“好压力”（Good stress）与“坏压力”（Bad stress），作为曾经目睹大量患者彻底精神崩溃的专业精神科医生，斯瓦特博士最初非常反感将压力浪漫化为“好压力”。经过十余年的观察与修正，她将所谓的好压力精准重新定义为“适应性反应”（Adaptive response）。人体需要这种机制来调动能量迎战困难，但它必须是一次短暂的“尖峰脉冲”——迅速冲高，随后完全回落平复；如果演变成持续高悬的平台期，身体必将崩溃。
---
### [06:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=378s) 无形的生物连接：从经期同步到能量消耗
谈及压力的物理传染性，史蒂芬分享了自己过去的经历：因为曾有这一假说，他在搜索引擎检索“压力会传染吗”，得到的答案是肯定的，这让他极其渴望从生理机制上探究“如何传染”与“为何传染”。斯瓦特博士没有直接罗列枯燥参数，而是反问史蒂芬：“你是否曾走进过一个房间与某人开会，等走出会客室时整个人感觉被彻底吸干榨尽（Drained）？”史蒂芬对此表示强烈共鸣。
为了说明这种看似玄妙的互动，斯瓦特博士抛出了一个经典的生理学现象：住在一起或紧密共事的女性，通常会在两到三个月内出现月经周期同步（Menstrual synchrony）。史蒂芬坦言自己在多年前得知此事时，认知受到了巨大的震撼——作为凡事依赖逻辑与可见实证的人，他过去信奉“看不见即不存在”的物理信条；而经期同步的事实彻底打破了他的认知框架，让他意识到人与人之间存在着看不见的生物场域互动。紧接着，斯瓦特博士语出惊人，透露自己从落座起就已经在对史蒂芬使用一种特定的眼神接触方式来建立情绪共鸣。
---
### [07:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=466s) 婴儿印刻、右眼对左眼注视与催产素循环
面对史蒂芬半开玩笑的“控诉”（“你对我做了什么？你到底用了哪种眼神接触？”），斯瓦特博士揭开了人际深度共鸣背后的神经生物学机制。这一机制源于人类最初的生命体验——母婴互动。婴儿降生之初视力极度模糊，只能看到两团光影，随后通过捕捉母亲微表情的变化来学习情绪认知，进而发展出亲社会行为，而这一切的核心纽带就是母婴间的眼神对视。
由于绝大多数人是右撇子，母亲通常习惯用左臂抱住婴儿，腾出优势右手处理事务。这就造就了一种天然的注视角度：母亲的右眼恰好正对着婴儿的左眼。视神经接收到的信号传入大脑，直接激活负责情绪加工的杏仁核（Amygdala），从而在母婴之间形成一个强大的“情绪共鸣回路”（Emotional resonance loop）。
斯瓦特博士指出，从统计学角度来看，与他人交流时保持“右眼对左眼”的注视，是建立信任与情感连接最强有力的凝视方式。在节目录制前，两人一见面就进行了拥抱，落座交谈中伴随着欢笑，配合这种精准的眼神共鸣，能够促使大脑迅速释放大量的“结合荷尔蒙”催产素（Oxytocin）。催产素水平的激增会让人自然放下心理戒备、建立深度信任，并愿意在对话中敞开心扉，承担健康的沟通风险。
### [09:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=591s) 眼神与肢体接触：催产素激发的社交联结秘密
史蒂文（Steven Bartlett）回顾起上一段讨论的“凝视左眼”技巧，坦言自己正试图将这个原理在脑海中梳理清楚，以便日后向他人转述，甚至开玩笑说这在约会场景中肯定大有用武之地。塔拉·斯沃特博士（Dr Tara Swart）解释道，凝视他人的左眼之所以有效，是因为人类大脑存在一种根深蒂固的联结机制，当对方直视你的左眼时，会触发一种极其本能的亲近感与信任感。史蒂文半开玩笑地表示，从现在起在整个对话中他要只用右眼盯着塔拉的左眼看；塔拉则笑着提醒，刚开始尝试时虽然感觉有些别扭，但一旦留心去实践，立刻就能察觉到人际互动中的奇妙变化。
谈到如何促成更深层的人际羁绊，塔拉指出身体接触（physical interaction）是催产素（oxytocin）分泌的核心催化剂。在社交礼仪允许的前提下，最起码是一次握手，或是拥抱与贴面礼。史蒂文随即分享了自己保持了十年的“双手握手”习惯：他曾在一篇文章中读到，在与人握手时，用另一只手覆在对方手背上方，能迅速传递出非同寻常的温暖与信赖感。塔拉证实了这一点，指出在许多古老文明中，握手礼仪往往比现代人那种单手、仓促的握法丰富得多。她自己当天早上一进演播室，就对遇到的每一个人要么握手、要么拥抱，“我绝不可能不这么做”。
除了眼神接触和肢体触碰，塔拉还列举了其他几种促使大脑释放催产素的日常行为与情境：
- **共同大笑（Laughing together）**：笑声能迅速拉近人与人之间的心理距离并分泌催产素。
- **泡温水澡（Warm Bath）**：塔拉提到，即使没有他人在场，选择泡澡而非淋浴也能显著增加催产素，因为温水包裹全身的感觉在神经层面上极其贴近一个温暖的拥抱，泡完澡后人会变得更温和、更有联结欲望。
- **按摩（Massage）**：被动接受舒缓的身体触碰同样能有效促进催产素循环。
- **共同经历极度情绪化或艰巨的挑战（Shared struggle）**：真人秀节目中参赛者常说“我们要成为一辈子的好友”，或者群体参与蹦极、跳伞等极限运动后产生牢不可破的友谊，正是因为高度情绪化的共患难体验释放了海量催产素；不过塔拉强调，这类事件不如日常生活中的微小举动实用。
---
### [13:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=780s) 激素的生理传染：远古生存机制与经期同步
话题重回核心议题——压力的生理传染性。塔拉首先用一个广为人知的生理现象作为铺垫：长期生活或密切接触的女性之间会出现月经周期同步（menstrual synchrony）的现象。每当遇到复杂的现代神经科学或者尚未完全明晰的机制时，塔拉总习惯回到远古洞穴时代寻找演化解释。在原始狩猎采集时期，男性常常过着游牧式的狩猎生活，外出离家数周甚至数月，甚至可能因为走得太远而就近留在了同一部落的另一个洞穴。
在当时的恶劣环境下，人类物种繁衍的第一要务就是确保部落中的“阿尔法雄性（alpha male）”能将自身基因传递下去。面对掠食者威胁、冰川期严寒或突如其来的饥荒，首领男性离开前必须确保同时让至少五名女性受孕，这样即使面临死产、流产或食物匮乏，也能确保至少有一名后代存活。这就倒逼部落女性必须在同一时期具备生育能力，经期同步的生理适应机制由此应运而生。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 激素空气扩散与生理同步机制
accDescr: 展示类固醇性激素通过汗液微粒挥发并在密闭空间女性之间引发经期同步的过程
subgraph Emission["激素释放源（阿尔法女性）"]
A["高睾酮水平与强韧生存基因"] --> B["雌激素与孕酮等性类固醇激素"]
B --> C["通过汗液微粒挥发到周围空气"]
end
subgraph Transmission["物理空间传播"]
C --> D["同居生活或密集办公环境（如同屋/六人小办公室）"]
end
subgraph Absorption["受体吸收与同步"]
D --> E["穿透同空间其他女性的皮肤"]
E --> F["其他女性月经周期被迫向阿尔法女性看齐"]
end
```
现代人类虽然已不需要这种极端繁衍策略，但这套生理线路依旧在运转。雌激素（estrogen）和孕酮（progesterone）等性类固醇激素会随着人体汗液微粒挥发到身体周遭的空气中，并能够穿透同处一室的其他女性的皮肤。只要长期共同居住，或者每天在小办公室内近距离并排办公（例如六名女性的紧凑办公室），经期同步就会不可避免地发生。
更有趣的是，经期同步始终是由“阿尔法女性（alpha female）”主导的。塔拉风趣地指出，如果一个女性发现身边所有人都在抱怨“我月经提前了”或“本来推迟了但突然来了”，而她自己的周期纹丝不动，那她很可能就是那个圈子里的阿尔法女性。这种主导权在生理上与较高的睾酮水平密切相关，且与群落中的最强生存适应基因紧密相连。
---
### [16:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1005s) 领导者压力下渗与难以摆脱的皮质醇“压力腹部脂肪”
月经周期的化学传染直接印证了压力的传播路径：人体最主要的压力激素——皮质醇（cortisol），正是通过完全相同的微粒挥发与物理渗透机制在人群中传播的。皮质醇的传染不分男女，但受到社会等级（hierarchy）的强烈主导。塔拉以大猩猩族群做类比：银背大猩猩（silverback gorilla）的压力水平对整个群体的震荡影响，远远超过普通平级个体之间的影响。
在现代职场中，许多人走出会议室后感到整个人被“彻底榨干”，被吸走能量的一方通常职级更低。这就是为什么管理压力对企业高管至关重要——CEO 或高层领导者的压力，对下属造成的生理冲击比其他所有人加起来还要严重。塔拉透露，她经常遇到一些 CEO 或 CFO 自欺欺人地表示：“我不会让团队看出我焦虑，我不告诉他们财报数据出了问题，我也绝不在他们面前表露情绪。”塔拉会毫不客气地当场戳穿他们：“下属的身体在生理层面依然能清清楚楚地接收到，这照样会破坏他们的健康，你必须真正去解决自己的压力源。”
更具讽刺意味的是长期高皮质醇对体型的残酷影响：在远古生存机制中，为了抵御可能长达一个月的饥荒，皮质醇会指令身体优先将脂肪囤积在腹部（belly fat），以便随时分解供能维持生命。然而在现代社会，这演变成了顽固难减的“压力肚”。塔拉提到，当她为金融服务业的高管提供咨询时，压力爆棚的客户们一进门甚至会直接掀起 T 恤指着自己的肚子苦笑：“看看我这肚子，你就知道我上个月过得有多惨了。”
塔拉还分享了一段令全场石化的真实经历：她曾在一座大型投资银行发表演讲，阐述领导层压力如何像毒气一样向下渗透、并最终转化为员工腰腹部难以消除的顽固脂肪。话音刚落，坐在台下的 CEO 私人助理（PA）突然当众大喊：“原来他才是我长胖的罪魁祸首！”令人窒息的是，全场观众竟然一片死寂，没有任何一个人敢笑出声。史蒂文追问是不是因为大家害怕被报复，塔拉严肃地回答道：“不是因为恐惧，而是因为所有人都在那一刻意识到，她说的是赤裸裸的事实——那位 CEO 确实快把所有人都逼疯了。”
- **等级制压力不对称**：职场中高层管理者的生理压力会单向“下渗（leak down）”给基层员工，且危害被层级杠杆无限放大。
- **皮质醇导致腹部顽固脂肪（Belly Fat）**：由长期压力引发的内脏与腹部脂肪堆积属于远古抗饥荒机制，极难通过常规减重手段消除。
### [19:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1165s) 腹部顽固脂肪与压力泄漏的职场连锁反应
塔拉·斯沃特博士（Dr Tara Swart）指出，许多人常向她抱怨腰围渐粗、皮带不得不松上一格，即便立刻控制饮食并加大运动量，赘肉依然纹丝不动。她解释道，这正是皮质醇（Cortisol）在作祟：只要体内还在持续“渗漏”过量的皮质醇，身体状况就不会发生改变。单纯靠少吃、换种方式吃或疯狂运动根本无法动摇这种脂肪，唯一的途径是找到根源——把皮质醇降下来。
主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）由此联想到企业管理：如果在组织中提拔一个长期处于高压、不断外溢皮质醇的领导者，势必会对整个下属团队造成极大的负面波及。斯沃特博士对此深表赞同，并引用了管理学名言“成也萧何，败也萧何”（"What got you here won't get you there"）。很多员工升职纯粹是因为业务能力过硬，却并未掌握管理与领导力的精髓。如果这类高管自身压力过载且习惯压抑负面情绪，这种“有毒的渗漏”就会沿着职级层层向下渗透，污染整个团队的心理氛围。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 压力荷尔蒙对生理与团队的级联反应
accDescr: 展示长期皮质醇积累如何引发顽固腹部脂肪，并在职场中通过情绪外溢影响整个团队机制。
subgraph Physiology["生理层：皮质醇恶性循环"]
C1["慢性压力积蓄"] --> C2["皮质醇持续过量渗漏"]
C2 --> C3["顽固腹部脂肪堆积"]
C3 -->|少吃多动无法根除| C2
end
subgraph Workplace["职场层：压力下沉外溢"]
L1["高压管理层压抑自身情绪"] --> L2["皮质醇与负面情绪外溢"]
L2 --> L3["团队下属承受级联压力"]
end
Physiology -.-> Workplace
```
---
### [20:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1251s) 高皮质醇的身体警讯与两项排毒自救法
如果一个人意识到自己正在向外“渗漏皮质醇”并殃及周边人群，斯沃特博士认为这说明“战斗已经胜利了一半”，最危险的反而是毫无知觉的状态。高皮质醇在生理和行为上有着清晰的征兆：
- **昼夜节律紊乱**：皮质醇与褪黑素共同调控24小时生理钟；褪黑素负责助眠，皮质醇负责唤醒。一旦皮质醇失调，首当其冲的就是睡眠破碎。
- **脑肠轴消化异常**：基于强大的“脑-肠轴”（Brain-Gut Connection），胃酸倒流或消化不良往往是皮质醇居高不下的直接信号。
- **情绪断崖式失控**：很多人在职场中尚能勉强维持体面，但一回到家面对孩子的吵闹或伴侣的要求便会彻底“炸毛”（snap），这其实意味着其情绪弹性已逼近极限，距离在职场爆发仅一步之遥。
- **皮肤干燥与炎症**：皮质醇具有促炎性（pro-inflammatory），同时会抽干机体水分。皮肤不仅是人体的物理屏障，更是心理边界，因此压力往往最先在皮肤问题上暴露出来。
针对皮质醇过载，斯沃特博士给出了两剂核心“解药”：
1. **有氧运动流汗**：皮质醇确实能够通过汗液排出体外，高强度的有氧运动能帮身体机械性地排出多余的皮质醇。
2. **心理外化排毒**：通过日记（Journaling）把思绪落于纸面，切断大脑里反刍的负向循环；或者向心理治疗师、信得过的朋友大声倾诉，将皮质醇及随之而来的负面思维彻底清出“脑-身系统”。
---
### [23:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1399s) 8小时15分钟：睡眠为何是脑健康的头等大事
史蒂芬分享了自己近六个月来的生活顿悟：他不再安排早晨11点之前的任何会议，戴着眼罩睡到自然醒。斯沃特博士对此极为共鸣，笑称自己也是如此。尽管她坦言对许多因轮班工作（如她当年在 NHS 担任初级住院医生）或家有幼儿而被迫牺牲睡眠的人而言，随意入睡是一种特权，但对具备自主权的人来说，睡眠必须放在第一位。
过去大众所理解的“睡眠能巩固记忆、整理情绪、更新细胞”，往往打动不了那些每天只肯睡四五个小时的野心勃勃的 C-Level 高管。然而最新的人群常模研究给出了严谨数据：人体的理想睡眠时长是**8小时15分钟**。如果睡眠时间超过9小时，反而可能诱发抑郁情绪（depressogenic）；但为了真正睡足8小时15分钟，一个人需要在床上预留整整9小时的时间。
---
### [25:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1538s) 胶质淋巴系统：清除阿兹海默毒素的侧卧“脑部大冲洗”
2012年至2014年间的一项神经科学突破彻底颠覆了人类对睡眠的认知——科学家发现了“胶质淋巴系统”（Glymphatic System）。该系统得名于胶质细胞（Glial cells），类似于身体的淋巴循环系统，但专属于大脑。
以往人们以为脑脊液只是在脑室（Ventricles）与缝隙间被动、缓慢地渗透滴流；但科学实验惊讶地观测到，在深度睡眠状态下，脑内实际上会喷射出强劲的“液体激流”，极其主动地冲刷毒素。在阿兹海默病和帕金森病中出现的核心病理标志物——包括 Tau 蛋白（Tau proteins）、β-淀粉样蛋白斑块（Amyloid plaques）以及神经纤维原纤维缠结（Neurofibrillary tangles），都会在夜间被这股激流彻底清洗排出。
- **清洗耗时**：脑部完成一次完整的排毒大扫除需要 **7到8小时的真实睡眠**，而非单纯在床上躺着醒着；该过程独立于每90分钟一次的常规睡眠周期。
- **最佳体位建议**：颈部静脉的血液回流动力学决定了，**侧卧睡姿**是脑部胶质淋巴系统冲洗毒素的最佳体位（无论左侧还是右侧，均显著优于仰卧或趴睡）。斯沃特博士提到，自己原本不是侧卧习惯者，为此特意使用了 Tempur UK 赠送的慢回弹记忆棉枕头来辅助侧睡。
- **演化根源**：针对史蒂芬关于人类远古睡眠形态的好奇，斯沃特博士确认，从演化史来看，早期人类祖先是以群居部落“共同睡眠”（Co-sleeping）的形式度过夜晚的。
### [28:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1714s) 远古洞穴中的同睡本能与现代“睡眠离婚”的隐患
人类在远古洞穴时期之所以紧紧挤在一起入睡，起初是为了获取物理上的温暖，但这种肢体接触与亲密互动同时触发了体内“亲密荷尔蒙”催产素（Oxytocin）的分泌，让人体验到归属于部落的情感暖意。早期人类大多选择侧卧睡眠，一方面是为了防范捕食者的突袭，随时腾出优势手抓取武器或反击；另一方面，大多习惯朝左侧侧卧，以此本能地护住身体最重要的核心器官——心脏。
现代社会中，许多伴侣因作息差异或育儿压力选择了分房睡（即所谓的“睡眠离婚”）。Steven 提到，自己有时因为工作需要早起，就会睡到客房；身边的许多年轻父母在新生儿降生初期也会分床而睡。然而，Dr. Tara Swart 对“分房睡”持绝对坚决的否定态度，坦言自己“永远不会和伴侣分房睡”。她认为，除了极少数婴儿刚出生且一方必须早起谋生、另一方照顾孩子的短暂特殊阶段外，任何理由都不足以成为分房睡的借口。即使在产后阶段，母亲与新生儿之间的催产素也会形成天然的“爱意气泡”，具有强大的神经保护作用。
在 Dr. Tara 看来，共同入睡（Co-sleeping）是人类生存的核心基石：在远古时代，它关乎肉体的生死存亡；而在当下，它在情感与精神层面对人类的维系同样不可或缺。全球许多文化至今保留着全家人同塌而眠的传统。共同入睡带来的皮肤触碰、体温传递、爱意与信任感，其神经层面的保护机制远胜于免受微小作息打扰带来的好处。即使伴侣早起动身会带来些许动静，她也宁可承受轻微的睡眠打扰，因为整夜相拥入眠对身心的滋养与修复是单人独睡无法比拟的。
### [31:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1862s) 心率变异性监测与晨间吻带来的“心理韧性峰值”
为了验证肢体接触对神经系统的具体影响，Dr. Tara 曾使用芬兰研发的胸口凝胶贴片式心率变异性（HRV, Heart Rate Variability）监测仪进行全天候生理数据追踪。该设备不仅监测心跳间距（HRV），还会结合基础心率（Heart Rate）将身体状态划分为不同颜色区域：剧烈运动、轻度活动、压力状态以及“恢复心理韧性”（Recouping Resilience）。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: HRV and Heart Rate State Detection
accDescr: A flowchart showing how the Finnish HRV monitor calculates physical stress, psychological resilience, and recovery states based on heart rate and variability.
subgraph DataCollection["生理信号输入"]
HR["实时心率 (Heart Rate)"]
HRV["心率变异性 (HRV 间距)"]
end
subgraph StateLogic["状态判定逻辑"]
HighHR{"心率是否处于基线以上？"}
HRVState{"心率变异性波形特征"}
end
subgraph OutputZones["监测仪彩色状态区"]
Exercise["高心率区：体能消耗 / 运动"]
Stress["红黄区：生理或心理压力"]
Turquoise["绿松石区：心理韧性快速恢复与重聚"]
end
HR --> HighHR
HRV --> HRVState
HighHR -- 是 --> Exercise
HighHR -- 否 (处于静息基线) --> HRVState
HRVState -- 变异性受压 --> Stress
HRVState -- 变异性升高舒缓 --> Turquoise
```
通常情况下，人体大部分的韧性恢复发生在夜间睡眠阶段。Dr. Tara 极度珍视自己的睡眠质量，按常理绝不希望睡眠受到任何干扰。然而监测数据显示，某天清晨 5:00，她的丈夫起床准备出门，并在离开前俯身给了她一个告别吻（而她一直睡到 8:00 才醒）。在这长达 15 分钟的数据区间内，监测仪记录到了代表心理韧性恢复的“绿松石色”（Turquoise）出现了一次极其罕见的巨大峰值。这表明，伴侣清晨的一个吻不但没有破坏睡眠结构，反而瞬间激发了强大的生理与心理修复力。
听到这里，Steven 分享了一段自己此前难以理解的亲身经历。大约一两个月前，他在清晨 6:00 左右出门前，来到仍在熟睡的女友床边，有些笨拙又热烈地吻遍了她的全脸和鼻尖，给了她一个大大的拥抱后赶出租车离去。当天晚些时候，女友告诉他：“不知道为什么，今早那个吻彻底解开了我体内的某种束缚。”此前她的经期受压力影响已经推迟了很久，而在那个早晨之后，月经居然如期而至。Steven 坦言自己是个坚定的唯物科学主义者，对女友偏向直觉和灵性的解释向来持怀疑态度，但结合神经科学的催产素与神经调节作用，他意识到人体对温情触摸的生理反应远比想象中深邃。
- **芬兰 HRV 监测技术**：通过胸前贴片每 15 分钟生成周期分析，利用静息心率与心跳变异性的比率，精准识别人体何时处于红色的压力消耗状态或绿松石色的韧性蓄能状态。
- **肌肤触碰对内分泌的级联效应**：清晨的亲吻与抚触能瞬间下调交感神经警报系统，上调副交感神经活性，促使催产素激增，甚至直接调控自主神经支配下的生殖内分泌周期。
### [35:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2155s) 男女直觉差异与MIT课堂上的“直觉决策论”
当 Steven 问及男女在直觉敏感度上是否存在先天神经学差异时，Dr. Tara 用“百人身高分布”做了一个生动的类比：如果将 50 名男性和 50 名女性按身高排列，并不是所有男性都比所有女性高，中间必然存在大量重叠区域。大脑的直觉功能同样如此——虽然普遍体感上女性似乎更愿意倾听内心的直觉，但这绝非绝对的性别两极化。两者的核心区别在于：女性通常更坦然地接受直觉的存在并顺从它，而男性往往需要坚实的科学依据作为解释支撑，才敢放心地相信直觉。
关于直觉在现实中的地位，Dr. Tara 回忆起约七年前在麻省理工学院（MIT）为高管教育项目授课时的场景。当时她正在讲授“直觉背后的神经科学”，一位年轻气盛的高管当场站起来质疑：“我总不可能在面对招聘或解雇这种极其重大的商业决策时，仅仅依赖直觉去决定吧？”然而话音刚落，班上几位年长、阅历深厚的高管立刻反驳道：“这正是我们在做出人生最关键决策时所用的方式，完全依靠直觉。”
随着年龄、阅历与生活智慧的增长，人们会逐渐领悟到，直觉绝非无稽的玄学预感，而应当成为人类最强大、最高阶的决策模式。大脑在人的一生中记录的海量潜意识信息，无法全部调入显意识的记忆库，而直觉正是大脑对这笔巨大隐性经验的瞬时提取机制。
### [38:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2284s) 直觉的神经机制与“肠道智慧”
Dr. Tara Swart 深入剖析了直觉（Intuition）与智慧（Wisdom）在神经生物学层面的本质差异。她指出，智慧与生活经验通常源于我们在生活中重复观察到、并被意识察觉到的模式；而直觉则是我们在人生道路上吸纳并储存进神经系统，但**意识尚未明确察觉**的经验总结。根据神经科学家唐纳德·赫布（Donald Hebb）提出的赫布学习理论（Hebbian learning）——即“同频共振的神经元会紧密连接”（Neurons that fire together wire together），当天学到的新知识（比如当下访谈中的对话）尚处于大脑最表层，仅形成初步连接的小通路；而幼儿时期学到的经验（例如五岁时把手伸入火堆被烫伤，从此终生不再犯），其印记则深深烙印在神经系统底部，虽然日常中不一定会主动想起，却时刻在起作用。
随着经验的沉淀，大脑中的智慧信息会经历一条从外到内的下行通路：从外层大脑皮层（outer cortex）被逐步推向主管情绪的边缘系统（limbic system），再向下进入脑干（brainstem）、脊髓（spinal cord），最终延伸并储存在肠道神经元（gut neurons）之中。这就是为什么人们常将直觉称为“直觉/肠道本能（Gut Instinct）”——它代表一种“明确知晓答案却说不清由何而知”的奇妙感觉，其生理实质正是身体内化、具身化（embodied）但尚未被意识化的智慧和经验。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 智慧与直觉在大脑和神经系统中的沉淀路径
accDescr: 展示信息从外层大脑皮层逐级下沉至边缘系统、脑干、脊髓及肠道神经元的过程。
A["新习得的表层经验<br/>（外层大脑皮层 Outer Cortex）"] --> B["情绪处理系统<br/>（边缘系统 Limbic System）"]
B --> C["基础反射与控制中枢<br/>（脑干 Brainstem）"]
C --> D["身体传输中枢<br/>（脊髓 Spinal Cord）"]
D --> E["具身化智慧与直觉<br/>（肠道神经元 Gut Neurons）"]
```
- 认知、记忆和智商（IQ）主要归属于大脑；但深层的具身直觉与智慧则分布于大脑和肠道神经系统共同构成的网络中。
- 直觉并非玄学虚构，而是神经系统将过往无数微小经验深层编码后、在大脑意识到之前所产生的身心生理反馈。
---
### [40:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2419s) 脑肠连接与压力对免疫系统的抑制
当主持人 Steven 坦言自嘲“这听起来可能很傻，但肠道不就是我吃东西的胃吗？记忆到底储存在哪里”时，Dr. Tara 解释道，人体从胃、小肠、大肠到肝脏、脾脏、肾脏以及心脏，全部布满了密集的自主神经（innervated）。心脏之所以能跳动，正是因为神经的穿透分布；而从颅脑延伸出的脊髓沿着背部中央下行，分支神经覆盖至四肢、所有内脏器官以及人体最大的器官——皮肤。大脑与身体之间每时每刻都在进行着紧密、不可分割的双向信息反馈（bidirectional feedback）。
深入理解并感知这种脑肠连接与身体反馈，能让人在生病前数天就提前察觉到异样。Dr. Tara 提到，很多女性（例如 Steven 的伴侣）往往能在感冒或流感爆发前几天就敏锐察觉，而许多高管客户对身体信号极端迟钝，往往“一去度假休假就立刻生病整整一周”。这背后的机制是：在持续的高压工作期间，长期分泌的皮质醇（Cortisol）一直在损耗并透支免疫系统，而身体为了应付高负荷工作不断强行压制不适；一旦度假松懈下来，皮质醇骤降、免疫防线出现窗口期，潜伏的疾病便全盘爆发。
Dr. Tara 还特别警示了职场与社交圈中的群体思维（Group Think）。在金融危机之后，她曾遇到多位职员说“我这感冒已经拖了四周甚至六周了，但大家好像都这样”。Dr. Tara 直言反驳：“你真的觉得感冒持续超过一周是正常的吗？”人们往往在同伴抱怨生病时只表达“好可怜啊”，却缺乏理性的追问与挑战。感冒迁延不愈绝非正常现象，其核心根源很大程度指向长期压力造成的皮质醇紊乱与免疫功能衰竭。
---
### [43:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2586s) 疫情后遗症：不只是健康风险，更是精神危机
谈及她多次预警的危机，Dr. Tara 直言：“这已经不是‘隐约浮现（looming）’的危机了，我们现在就身处于这场危机之中。”她指出，新冠疫情期间所经历的健康焦虑、不确定性、恐惧与生离死别，带来了当今健在人类前所未有的压力水平。然而随着社会重新开放，无论人们是“重返正常”还是进入所谓的“新常态”，全社会几乎没有对疫情给全人类心理造成的深远后果给予足够的正视与反思：
- **新生儿群体**：疫情期间出生的婴儿，早期生命里除了直系亲属外从未见过外界其他人。
- **青少年群体**：在社交隔离中受到严重冲击；有趣的是，男孩因习惯在互联网上联机打电子游戏而保持了一定社交联系，表现反而优于女孩。
- **老年人与失亲群体**：长期与世隔绝或承受丧亲之痛的人们，至今心理创伤未愈。
Dr. Tara 对比了美洲原住民（First Americans）的古老智慧：原住民在为社群做重大决策时，会深谋远虑地评估该决定对“未来七代人（Seven Generations）”的影响；而现代社会不仅连未来一代都懒得考虑，甚至连个体自身几周、几个月后的未来都漠不关心。早在 2020 年 3 月，她就断言无论身体层面的疫情如何演变，这必然会演变成一场全人类层面的精神健康危机（mental health crisis）。
---
### [45:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2721s) 从精神革命到大自然疗愈与超脱自我的目标感
在居家隔离期间，Dr. Tara 深入研究了灵性修养与古代文化，她意识到这场考验不仅是心理危机，更有可能催生一场“精神革命（Spiritual Revolution）”。回顾现代人的生活轨迹：
1. **生理层面**：现代人曾饱受急性高压与心脏病等躯体问题困扰；
2. **心理韧性与情绪调节**：随后大家开始关注心理韧性，而疫情期间在狭小空间内同住、同时兼顾远程办公与居家育儿（homeschooling），更是把情绪调节推到了风口浪尖；
3. **灵性回归与大自然**：疫情迫使人们停下脚步，在没有飞机轰鸣和地面拥堵的静止环境中重新仰望星空、欣赏日落并倾听鸟鸣，重新唤醒了人们对大自然（Nature）的敬畏与渴望。
多项科学研究已经明确证实，**置身于大自然中对个体的身体健康、心理健康以及寿命（longevity）均具有显著的正面促进作用**。但问题在于，随着生活恢复快节奏，人们是否还在刻意为亲近自然留出时间，抑或是重蹈覆辙陷入旧习。
最后，Dr. Tara 强调了建立“超脱自我（Transcends Yourself）的目标感”对心理健康的决定性意义。许多人追求的目标（例如做一档自己热爱的播客、访谈名流并分享知识）虽然有价值，但本质上很大一部分仍属于“自我满足（Self-satisfaction）”。真正对心理长久健康产生深远滋养的，是去从事那些**“不为你自己谋求实质好处、却赋予你人生崇高意义”**的事物，例如投身志愿服务，或是无偿、无私地向公众分享知识与价值。
### [47:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2879s) 部落归属感与服务他人的进化本能
利他与志愿服务并不一定需要做出惊天动地的壮举，它可以小到在去超市时顺便帮年迈的邻居代购杂货，或者只是给朋友打个电话问候一句“你最近还好吗”。这些微小的善举能让人真切感受到“活着是有价值的”，哪怕它既不能带来金钱回报，也不会直接改善自己的物质生活。
很多心理治疗师常提到人类内心最恐惧的两件事：第一是“感到自己与众不同（异类）”，第二是“感到自己不够好”。从原始部落的角度来看，这种恐惧植根于生存危机：如果一个人表现得异类或不够好，就意味着他对部落没有价值，而远古时期的部落无法承受“累赘”（如伤残、无法行动、年迈或无法做出贡献的人），从而面临被驱逐或抛弃的死亡风险。因此，通过服务他人为部落的整体利益贡献价值，本质上是一种深植于人类基因的史前本能。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 部落淘汰机制与利他本能
accDescr: 展现从生存威胁到服务他人寻求安全感的心理进化路径。
subgraph Survival_Threat ["生存威胁"]
A["感到自己异类 / 不够好"] --> B["成为部落累赘"]
B --> C["被部落驱逐与遗弃"]
end
subgraph Evolutionary_Response ["进化应对策略"]
C --> D["利他与志愿服务"]
D --> E["为部落贡献价值"]
E --> F["获得归属感与心理安全"]
end
```
### [49:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2969s) 神经美学：美感与安全感的神经联结
“神经美学”（Neuroaesthetics / Neuroarts）是一门新兴的研究领域，强调在日常生活中引入创造性活动的重要性。研究表明，如果人们每周至少进行一次创造性活动——如舞蹈、音乐、绘画、看戏剧、读小说，甚至只是置身于大自然中——对心理健康、身体健康和长寿都会产生巨大的积极影响。
审美不仅限于艺术殿堂，也可以融入早晨的生活细节：
- 闻到冰箱里前一天晚上做饭时刨下的柠檬皮清香；
- 在床头柜上放一束散发香气的鲜花，作为清晨醒来第一眼看到和闻到的美好事物；
- 在家中摆放具有美感的物件，或者在清晨聆听鸟鸣。
从进化心理学解释，当人有闲暇的心理资源去欣赏美时，大脑接收到的深层信号是“我是安全的”，因为一个时刻为生存而疲于奔命的个体是没有余力去感受美的。类似地，基于“同时激活的神经元会连接在一起”（Pathways that fire together wire together）的原理，人类在自然中往往处于心理和生理双重安全的状态，久而久之，“置身于树木与自然”便通过神经可塑性形成了等同于“安全”的神经通路。这种对美的欣赏、对夜空繁星的仰望、围着篝火跳舞或岩洞壁画的创作，自穴居人时代起就已刻在人类的灵魂与仪式之中。应对现代人的精神危机，并不需要发明多么繁复的新方法，而是重新唤醒祖先在平静状态下所拥有的古老智慧。
### [53:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3230s) 现代社会的脱节与个人生活方式的重构
现代社会正陷入一种吊诡的困境：人们独自生活在四面白墙的城市公寓里，面临前所未有的孤独；隔着冰冷的玻璃屏幕点外卖，用色情片替代亲密感与真实连接，用社交网络取代面对面的社交。面对这种异化，Dr. Tara Swart 指出，我们不必等待整个社会完成重构，完全可以先从改变自身开始。
Dr. Tara Swart 分享了她践行的生活原则：
- 尽可能多花时间走入大自然，并在居所周围摆满绿植与鲜花；
- 对自己的社交圈（“部落”）进行极度严格的筛选，只维系积极、有意义、深层次和具有精神共鸣的关系；
- 坚决不使用色情内容和约会软件（Dating apps），且睡眠时绝不把手机带进卧室。
在谈到色情内容对大脑的负面影响时，她指出性和食物是大脑最原始的本能驱动。色情内容在现实中撕裂了男女之间的真实联结：它严重扭曲了对女性的物化认知，诱发了对整容和特定性行为的过度期望，更让男女交往沦为缺乏同理心的冷漠交易。此外，过度依赖线上沟通不仅削弱了个体的社交自适度和共情能力，还加剧了青少年的身体畸形恐惧（Body dysmorphism）。尽管在现代工作生活中无法完全避免屏幕，但关键在于必须保持足够高比例的“面对面”（Face-to-face）深度接触。
### [57:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3475s) 审慎筛选圈子与压力传染机制
针对“为什么要严格限制谁留在自己的部落中”，Dr. Tara Swart 准备从神经科学和神经可塑性的视角展开深层剖析。周围人不仅深刻塑造着个人的健康状态、认知格局和人生走向，更与先前探讨的核心机制紧密相连——正如人们在搜索引擎上高频提问的那样：“压力是会传染的吗？”周围人的情绪状态会通过具体的生理和神经机制直接渗透并影响我们自身。
### [58:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3499s) 社交传染与“信任圈”的心理共振
人际关系中存在着一种深刻的“社交传染”（Social Contagion）现象。统计数据表明，如果你身处的社交圈子里有人离婚，你在接下来一年内离婚的概率就会显著上升；同样，如果社交圈中有人变胖，你变胖的几率也会相应增加。塔拉·斯瓦特博士（Dr Tara Swart）明确表示，这并不意味着朋友一旦发胖或离婚就该与其断交，核心在于观察人际关系中的“态度传染”——你如何对待他人、是否心怀善意与慷慨，以及对直觉或精神层面的探讨持有多大的开放度。人在本质上总会与自身心理发展水平相仿的人走到一起。
人在一生中理应不断向内探索并提升自我。当你处于持续成长的状态时，你会渴望与同样积极成长、勇于接受挑战、热衷学习并关照彼此心理健康的人为伍。这就构筑起一个高质量的“信任圈”（Circle of Trust）。在这样的圈子中，你不仅能获得坚实的情感支撑，更重要的是，一旦你做出了逾矩或不当的举动，身边会有真正关心你的人直言不讳地指出，而不是盲目迎合。
- **社交传染的统计现实**：密友圈内的行为模式（如离异、体态与健康习惯）会在无形中对个体产生潜移默化的心理暗示与行为趋同。
- **态度共鸣法则**：人倾向于结识并吸纳与自己心理成熟度、精神追求相匹配的伙伴。
- **信任圈的双重价值**：既提供无条件的成长支撑，又具备健康的人际纠错机制。
---
### [59:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3576s) 神经可塑性的觉醒：打破大脑定型的传统神话
谈及神经可塑性（Neuroplasticity），史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）提到许多人普遍认为成年后人的心智与习惯便“彻底定型”，而斯瓦特博士早年在科研生涯中也经历过一次重大的认知觉醒。斯瓦特博士回忆道，当年她在医学院就读并攻读神经科学博士学位时，科学界根本还不知道神经可塑性的存在。当时的医学界坚信，一旦身体停止物理生长，大脑的一切结构与功能便终生固定；人的智商无法改变，调节情绪的能力无法重塑，步入成年后学习新事物更是难上加难。
然而现代神经科学彻底颠覆了旧认知：大脑的主动生长发育与可塑性会一直持续到大约 25 岁。面对史蒂芬打趣自己“虽然看起来只有 24 岁但已经错过了黄金期”，斯瓦特博士澄清道，25 岁到 65 岁乃至更年长的阶段，大脑依然具备改变的潜质。如果成年后日复一日做着轻车熟路的工作，不主动给大脑施加刺激，神经系统确实会陷入停滞的平台期（Plateau）；但只要给予大脑足够高强度的刺激，强迫它走出舒适区，大脑依然能够建立全新的神经连接。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 成人神经可塑性机制与效益
accDescr: 展示高强度学习刺激如何激活大脑神经可塑性，并最终全面提升执行功能
subgraph Stimulus["高强度认知刺激"]
A["学习全新外语 / 乐器"]
B["打破固有认知路径与习惯"]
end
subgraph BrainResponse["神经可塑性重塑"]
C["建立高强度神经通路"]
D["神经连接空间重组与迁移"]
end
subgraph ExecutiveFunctions["全局执行功能提升"]
E["更强的情绪调节能力"]
F["复杂问题解决与创造力"]
G["抑制潜意识偏见与思维弹性"]
end
Stimulus --> BrainResponse
BrainResponse --> ExecutiveFunctions
```
- **传统神经学误区**：曾认为成年即大脑结构终点，智力、情绪管理能力终生不可逆。
- **现代科学界定**：25 岁前大脑处于自然生长期；25 岁至 65 岁及以上则遵循“不用则废”的平台期规律，唯有高强度输入能强行诱发结构重塑。
---
### [01:01:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3672s) 全局效益与“注意力密集度”的界限
斯瓦特博士以学习外语为例，指出高强度的认知训练不仅能让人掌握一门具体技能，还会带来大脑的“全局效益”（Global Benefits）。当她随口举例“比如你可以去学葡萄牙语或法语”时，史蒂芬大吃一惊，怀疑她是不是私下和自己的伴侣串通好了。史蒂芬坦言，自己年初曾向伴侣许诺要在年底前学会葡萄牙语，结果到了 9 月份自己满打满算总共只记住了 6 个单词，这种精准的“巧合”让他直呼戳中痛处。
斯瓦特博士指出，一旦真正投入去攻克一门外语或学习一种乐器，大脑获得的好处远不止会说几句外语，而是会全方位强化大脑的“执行功能”（Executive Functions）。这涵盖了情绪调节、复杂问题解决、灵活且具创造性的思考，以及克服自身意识与潜意识偏见的能力。哪怕是较小的刺激——去没去过的地方旅行、接触生活背景迥异的人、烹饪新菜谱、换一条通勤路线、阅读平时从不翻阅的报刊杂志，都能为大脑带来新鲜体验。
当史蒂芬询问每天主持播客、采访不同嘉宾是否也在诱发神经可塑性时，斯瓦特博士给出了出人意料的冷静剖析：尽管播客让史蒂芬积累了大量具体事实与新知识，但“搜集背景、制定采访提纲、与人会面交谈、抛出精准问题”这一整套流程对他而言早已成为自动化、极其熟练的本能通路。因为缺乏足够的“注意力密集度”（Attention-Intense），这种常规工作并不足以迫使大脑底层的神经回路发生根本性重构。
- **语言学习带来的执行功能升级**：
- 增强高级前额叶皮层对情绪冲动的自上而下抑制能力；
- 提升应对不确定情境的认知弹性与跳跃性思维；
- 弱化固有思维定势，主动纠正认知偏差。
- **知识获取 vs. 神经重构**：获取零散信息（如做播客积累素材）并不等同于重塑神经回路，唯有打破既有自动化技能模式、要求高度专注的非熟练任务，才能触发真正的神经可塑性。
---
### [01:03:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=3801s) 重塑不良习惯：提高觉察与锁定专注的两步法
史蒂芬指出，大众了解神经可塑性后，最迫切的诉求往往不是学外语，而是彻底改变那些阻碍自身发展的糟糕模式，例如拖延、情绪化、过度思考（Overthinking）、消极思维模式或是习惯性讨好他人（People-Pleasing）。很多人常年被某种行为模式困扰，甚至认命地觉得“这就是我的本性”。
斯瓦特博士强调，基于神经可塑性的行为重塑并非一蹴而就，其底层生理机制遵循严格的步骤：
1. **提高觉察（Raised Awareness / Spotting the Pattern）**：这是整个改变过程中最艰难的一环，占据了“整场战役的 50%”。个体必须跳出无意识的机械反应，清晰识别出自己反复陷入的死循环。例如在感情中多次因相似原因分手，不再像过去那样麻木地换下一个人，而是清醒意识到“这是一个反复出现的模式，我必须做出改变”。
2. **聚焦专注（Focused Attention）**：在识别出问题后，绝不能急于立刻强行纠错，而是要退后一步进行全景式的自我审视。观察这种模式在职场、人际、个人生活或过去经历中是如何被激发的，究竟是什么诱发因素（Triggers）在背后将自己推向了该行为。
史蒂芬随即分享了身边一个真实案例：一位女性朋友总是反复爱上已婚或已有伴侣的人，每次都以心碎和情感崩溃收场，深陷这一痛苦循环却无法自拔。针对这个典型案例，斯瓦特博士指出，在表面上“明知对方有伴侣还介入”的行为模式背后，第 1 步的觉察不仅是看清事实，更要直击核心信念——“她内心深处究竟抱有怎样的自我认知，才会觉得自己只配得到这种关系？”这种模式往往源于支离破碎的自我价值感（Self-Worth），其根源可能深埋在童年创伤中；一个人唯有在潜意识里认定自己“不配拥有一段完全属于自己的健康亲密关系”时，才会屡屡做出这种自我破坏的毁灭性选择。要真正驱动神经与心理的蜕变，必须穿透当事人意识层面的说辞，深挖那层埋藏在潜意识之下的核心信念。
### [01:07:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4029s) 改变行为习惯的核心三步法与刻意练习
改变顽固思维模式的第一步是“提高意识”，也就是穿透表层的念头，挖掘潜意识底层的深层信念。塔拉·斯沃特博士以经常卷入不伦关系的女性为例：如果一位女性有与有妇之夫纠缠的过往，她需要借助日记等方式写下具体细节，梳理做出选择的心理节点，以及最终招致的后果。这种将“决定”与“代价”紧密绑定的过程，就是“聚焦注意力”。斯沃特博士直言：“从根本上说，你就是一生中所有选择的总和，这就是你之所以成为你的原因。”
随后的关键阶段是“刻意练习”。真正的考验出现在现实诱惑再次降临的那一刻——面对一个已有家室的男性，当事人可能无法立即拒绝，或许还会重蹈覆辙，但此时她已经掌握了认知工具，能够看清模式的本质。所谓刻意练习，就是在脑海中勾勒一个“理想的新自我”（例如彻底对有家室者说“不”的人），并积极寻找场景反复锤炼新行为。由于大脑是极度耗能的器官，本能上总会遵循阻力最小的既定神经回路，特别是在童年期就已固化的路径，因此初期会非常艰难。斯沃特博士分享了自身的应对策略：当她在播客录制中冒出过度思虑的声音（“他为什么问这个？他是不是想给我设套？”）时，她会刻意压制这种杂音，专注于斯蒂芬的提问本身，仅从自己的专业角度回答。从最初只能做到 50%，到后来达成 75%，随着新神经回路逐渐强于旧回路，最终这种专注与当下感便会沉淀为自然而然的全新自我。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 行为重构的三步机制与问责保障
accDescr: 展示从意识觉醒到最终固化新习惯的四个阶段过程
subgraph Phase1 ["认知与注意阶段"]
A["1. 意识觉醒<br/>(挖掘表层想法背后的潜意识信念)"] --> B["2. 聚焦注意力<br/>(将决策选择与实际后果深度绑定)"]
end
subgraph Phase2 ["行动与固化阶段"]
B --> C["3. 刻意练习<br/>(设定新自我目标，在具体情境中克服阻力反复训练)"]
C --> D["神经回路重构<br/>(新路径强化，旧回路逐渐弱化)"]
end
E["关键保障因素：外部问责<br/>(行动愿景板、好友监督、专业导师)"] -.-> C
```
- **三步核心机制**：
1. 觉察生活中的恶性循环与底层信念（Raised Awareness）。
2. 深刻认识到该模式带来的后果与痛楚（Focused Attention）。
3. 设定新自我的意图，并在生活情境中持续进行刻意练习（Deliberate Practice）。
- **第四要素——外部问责机制（Accountability）**：绝大多数人在走到第三步感到困难时都会选择放弃。斯沃特博士指出，除个人记日记自省外，更需要外部监督，例如让朋友督促、聘请专业导师，或者制作极具视觉冲击力的“行动愿景板”（Action Board），让目标公开可见、无法抵赖。斯蒂芬此时打趣道，塔拉频繁提及语言老师就是在暗戳戳夹带私货推动议程。
---
### [01:11:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4272s) 创伤的神经回路：“硬连线”到“软连线”的转变
谈及旧回路的顽固性，斯蒂芬坦承自己从小在宛如“被原子弹炸过”般极度凌乱的家庭环境中长大，因此邋遢、无序的行为回路在脑海中根深蒂固。他进一步追问：那些在童年经历重大创伤、深信自己“不配被爱”或“天生有缺陷”的人，其神经通路往往坚不可摧，这是否意味着某些行为与创伤在现实中几乎是“无法改变、无法动摇”的？
斯沃特博士并不认同这种宿命论。神经科学如今已经淘汰了“硬连线”（Hardwired）这一暗示终身无法更改的陈旧概念，取而代之的是强调大脑可塑性的“软连线”（Soft-wiring）。她分享身边一位经历过巨大童年创伤的朋友，凭借强大的韧性与系统学习，不仅完成了自我疗愈，如今还成为一名出色的心理学家和吠陀占星师，引导他人走出创伤阴影。斯沃特博士坦言，并非每个人都能彻底根除创伤的所有后遗症，许多人确实一生都在承受创伤的折磨，但这并不代表我们无能为力——无论起点多难，大脑都具备借助神经可塑性发生深刻积极转变的潜力。
---
### [01:13:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4387s) 代际创伤与表观遗传学：基因表达的代际传递
斯蒂芬提起自己初次接触“代际创伤”（Generational Trauma）的概念时，一度认为这是种神秘主义的无稽之谈（Woo-woo），不过是后人把自身缺陷甩锅给祖辈的借口。斯沃特博士纠正了这一认知，并从科学层面上将其拆解为两个截然不同但紧密相连的研究维度：
首先是群体层面的**代际创伤（Generational Trauma）**。它通常与特定历史时期遭受严重迫害或边缘化的群体有关，如美洲原住民、经历奴隶制时期的非裔，以及亚洲特定遭受苦难的族群。这种创伤会在心理层面上代代外溢，导致后代长期怀有一种莫名的被排斥感、边缘感与深层孤立。
其次是细胞与分子层面的**代际表观遗传创伤（Intergenerational Epigenetic Trauma）**。外部创伤事件不会更改人体的基因型（Genotype，即 DNA 序列本身），但会改变表型（Phenotype），即决定基因片段的开启与关闭状态。
- **历史经典范例**：大屠杀（Holocaust）幸存者以及荷兰饥荒（Dutch Famine）经历者的后代研究表明，这种生理压力反应机制的改变可以延续跨越三代以上。
- **双向适应性表现**：祖辈承受的创伤并不总是带来纯粹的负面影响，有些后代因此发展出了超乎常人的心理韧性，而另一些后代则表现出更高的焦虑倾向。
- **受孕与宫内环境的关键窗口**：人类出生时所继承的并不是父母出生时的基因表达状态，而是父母在“受孕那一刻”的基因表达状态，外加母亲在孕期各个阶段承受的压力水平。
斯沃特博士强调，阐明这一科学事实绝非为了让孕妇或家族产生愧疚感，而是要唤醒大家的自主意识：即便家族历史存在创伤，或者母亲经历过充满压力的孕期，后天依然能够通过神经可塑性重塑大脑，主动促使有益于身心健康的基因表达，为自己和下一代争取更好的生命状态。
### [01:16:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4571s) 孕期压力如何通过母体影响胎儿发育
Steven Bartlett 提出了一个极为具体的现实假设：如果一位母亲在怀孕八个月时承受着巨大的压力，这究竟会给肚子里即将出生的婴儿带来怎样的实质性影响？孩子未来是否会出现原本不会发生的症状？Dr. Tara Swart 给出了一个虽然尖锐却极易理解的类比——想象一位吸毒成瘾的海洛因母亲，外界毫不怀疑毒品会伤害胎儿，因为母婴之间共享着同一套血液循环系统。同样的生理机制也适用于压力：当母亲处于高度压力状态时，体内激增的皮质醇（Cortisol）会毫不留情地穿透胎盘屏障，直接涌入胎儿的血液之中。
这种在子宫内（in utero）就遭受的高压力环境，会在基因层面产生深远影响。皮质醇的浸泡可能会启动某些特定的表观遗传开关，使胎儿在基因表达上变得更缺乏抗压韧性，或者在未来更容易患上焦虑症和情绪障碍。更严重的是，这种生化环境会在尚未出生的胎儿体内早早诱发炎症反应。虽然这个科学事实听起来令人焦虑甚至残酷，但 Dr. Tara Swart 明确强调，这绝不意味着所有孕妇都必须做到“完全心如止水、永远不产生负面压力”——这在现实生活中根本不切实际。重点在于孕期要尽可能去管理压力，而更关键的在于产后的科学干预。
父母应当充分理解这些早期机制。如果孩子在成长到理应具备一定情绪管理能力的年龄后，依然表现出明显的焦虑症状或难以调节情绪，父母完全可以通过后天教育去重塑他们的大脑。例如，可以及早引导孩子接触冥想、耐心地坐下来与他们倾听并拆解情绪感受，或者利用优秀的儿童情绪认知书籍与视频进行系统引导。Dr. Tara Swart 总结道：“知识就是力量（Knowledge is power）。”生活中固然会发生很多难以掌控的困境，但每次面对危机，更积极的做法是深入探寻解决问题的知识与途径，通过后天的关怀与训练弥补先天压力的烙印。
- **母婴血液传递**：母体高浓度的皮质醇会直接通过胎盘进入胎儿血液系统，在发育早期产生系统性炎症。
- **表观遗传风险**：宫内高压力刺激可能激活某些基因，使孩子在长大后情绪调节能力偏弱，更易产生焦虑或心境障碍。
- **后天干预途径**：通过冥想训练、情绪对话、针对性的教育绘本和视频，能够有效帮助孩子建立情绪复原力。
---
### [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4686s) 悲伤与心碎：为何必须“坠入谷底”才能真正疗愈
谈话转入人类最沉重的情感体验之一——悲伤（Grief）与心碎（Heartbreak）。Steven 分享了身边挚友的真实经历：一位好友正在经历痛苦的失恋分手，另一位则在承受亲人离世的巨痛。Steven 观察到，这种巨大的悲痛像是一股吞噬一切的旋风，而且似乎对任何理性的安慰和建议都完全“免疫”，他向 Tara 探寻大脑在面对悲痛与心碎时的神经机制与应对之法。Tara 指出，近几年人们经历了形态多样的悲伤，其中包括自我认同感的丧失、亲密关系的破裂，以及直面死亡的永诀。
对于旁观者觉得悲伤“难以劝解”，Tara 提出了一个至关重要的心理学观点：要想从悲伤中彻底痊愈，你必须“坠入谷底”（go to the bottom of the hole）。如何经历这个低谷完全属于当事人自己的节奏，外人无法也无权横加指责或干涉。她明确反对某些看似积极的回避机制，比如在遭受重大变故后立刻疯狂投入工作，或者用纵情派对狂欢来麻痹自己。当一个人在情感上需要潜入黑暗深处去面对痛苦时，身边人唯一能做的就是提供无条件的支持与接纳，并在适当时机温柔地探问一句：“你现在感觉如何？是否体会到哪怕一丝的疗愈、释怀、理解或接纳？”因为未经他人苦，旁人很难真正感同身受。
面对 Steven 关于“为什么非得坠入谷底”的追问，Tara 分享了自己当年的亲身经历。当她的第一段婚姻宣告破裂且正面临职业转型时，内心的煎熬让她清晰地意识到：如果自己不是一位精神科医生、不懂得人类心理与大脑的运作方式，那种婚姻破裂的绝望感足以把一个人直接摧毁并送进精神科病房。Tara 解释说，所谓“坠入谷底”绝不是追求自我折磨，而是必须“完全消化并处理所有真实的情绪（process all the emotions）”，甚至需要主动向这些痛苦臣服。
如果选择掩饰、粉饰太平或强行假装坚强，这些被压抑的情绪未来必将加倍反扑。她见过很多人在经历伤痛后，选择做出很多看似非常伟大的举动——例如立刻撰写一本励志新书，或者把所有的爱心与精力全部倾泻给外界他人——直到多年后才猛然发现，自己内心深处未被解决的创伤从未愈合。只有彻底面对这股深层情绪，直面生命的无常与脆弱，人才能真正放下并继续前行；这并不意味着遗忘逝去的人或事，而是避免将致命的情感隐患埋在潜意识中。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 面对悲伤的心理应对路径与后果对比
accDescr: 流程图展示了面对悲伤时，逃避压抑导致情绪反扑与完全接纳坠入谷底实现真正愈合的两种路径
A["遭遇严重创伤 / 悲伤<br/>（失恋、丧亲、失去自我）"] --> B{"应对路径选择"}
subgraph 情感逃避模式
B -- "逃避 / 压抑情绪" --> C["用工作麻痹、疯狂派对、<br/>强行粉饰太平、过度付出"]
C --> D["深层情绪未被消化"]
D --> E["情绪未来加倍反扑<br/>（心理崩溃、精神危机）"]
end
subgraph 臣服与疗愈模式
B -- "坠入谷底 / 允许悲伤" --> F["臣服于当下痛苦<br/>获得外界安全支持"]
F --> G["完全消化并处理所有情感细节"]
G --> H["走向内心和解、理解与真正愈合"]
end
```
---
### [01:21:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4879s) 优质睡眠控温机制与日常营养补给方案
随后，Steven 切入播客的常规赞助与生活习惯分享。他首先介绍了改变自己睡眠质量的智能床垫罩产品 Eight Sleep。在与加利福尼亚大学伯克利分校的睡眠专家 Matthew Walker 等学者多次深入对谈后，Steven 深刻体会到温度对深度睡眠的核心调控作用。人体的核心体温在整夜需要随着不同睡眠阶段发生动态波动：在刚入睡时，床铺需要维持相对较低的凉爽温度以加速入睡；随后在深睡阶段温度需进一步降低；而在清晨临近醒来之前，温度则应逐渐回升。这种动态调温精确复刻了人类祖先在自然界昼夜交替中的温差节律。Steven 为听众争取到了使用特定优惠码立减 150 美元的专属福利。
接着，Steven 提到了长期合作的代餐品牌 Huel。作为该公司的早期投资者与董事会成员，他坦言并非旗下所有产品都适合每一个人，但某些单品彻底颠覆了他的日常作息。对于他而言，开盖即饮的瓶装代餐（ready-to-drink）多年来一直是他的日常刚需口粮；而对于另一些生活场景，5 分钟即可冲泡完成的热食简餐（Hot & Savory）则提供了兼顾 23 种必需维生素与矿物质的完整营养平衡。他建议新尝试者可以从包含各类明星产品的热销组合包（best-seller bundle）入手，探索最符合个人生活节奏的营养搭配。
- **睡眠节律温控**：Eight Sleep Pod 模拟自然降温规律，通过初睡凉爽、深睡微冷、临醒回温的动态控温支持睡眠阶段切换。
- **便携营养补充**：Huel 即饮代餐与热食系列提供包含 23 种微量营养素的全营养方案，兼顾工作效率与营养摄入。
---
### [01:23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5016s) 神经可塑性核心机制：髓鞘化与超级大脑通道
话题重新回归到脑科学的核心命题。Steven 提到 Tara 在其著作《The Source》中详细拆解了“神经可塑性”（Neuroplasticity）的生理机制，并提问究竟是哪三大核心机制与关键因素对大脑结构的重塑产生了决定性影响。Dr. Tara Swart 首先揭晓了第一个、也是极为关键的物理机制——**髓鞘化（Myelination）**。
为了让非专业听众快速理解，Tara 以高强度体育训练与举重健身打比方：运动员在不断重复特定负重动作时肌肉纤维会发生适应性变化；大脑神经也是如此。她指着 Steven 赞赏道：“你几乎每天都坐在这里采访杰出嘉宾，你极其擅长提出精妙的问题。正是因为你日复一日地高度重复这项行为，提问就变成了你的‘超级超能力’。”这种重复动作在大脑中所引发的实质生理改变正是髓鞘化。
髓鞘（Myelin）是一种包裹在神经纤维（轴突）外部的富含脂质的保护鞘，其结构就像电线外层的绝缘绝缘皮。当大脑中的某条特定神经回路被反复激活、持续调用时，神经胶质细胞就会在这些神经通路上包裹一层又一层的髓鞘。经过髓鞘化包裹的神经通路，其电信号传导速度会成倍提升，从而彻底演变为大脑中的“高速公路”。
Dr. Tara Swart 从人类进化生物学的角度解释了大脑为何会分化出“快速通路”与“慢速通路”。这种生理设计对人类生存至关重要：
- **快速反射通路**：如果人类不慎把手伸进了熊熊烈火中，大脑指令肌肉猛然缩手以避免组织被烧毁的神经冲动，依赖的是高度髓鞘化的极速神经通路，确保身体在微秒级时间内本能抽离；
- **慢速痛觉通路**：相比之下，灼伤后的疼痛信号在神经系统中传导得相对较慢，因为身体若在遭遇危险的瞬间先沉浸在剧烈痛苦中，反而会阻碍迅速逃生的本能反应。通过反复的主动刻意练习，人类能够将特定的思维、技能和习惯转化为高度髓鞘化的高速通路，这构成了神经可塑性最底层的物理基石。
### [01:24:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5074s) 神经可塑性的三种核心机制与 BDNF
Tara Swart 博士深入拆解了大脑神经可塑性（Neuroplasticity）的底层生物学机制。神经可塑性主要通过三种机制运作：
1. **髓鞘化（Myelination）**：当你想要在某项已经非常擅长的事情上变得更加精进时，大脑会通过给神经纤维包裹髓鞘来实现，从而加快神经电信号的传导速度。
2. **突触连接（Synaptic Connection）**：这是最常见、也最费力的一种形式。适用于你本身掌握得还不错、但如果投入大量时间可以做得极好的技能。通过持续努力，大脑中现存的神经元彼此重新连结，开辟出全新的神经网络回路。
3. **神经发生（Neurogenesis）**：在成年人大脑中，神经发生并不会普遍发生，但仍会集中出现在负责形成与巩固新记忆的海马体（Hippocampus）区域；而在儿童大脑中，这一现象尤为活跃。神经发生是指脑内原本漂浮的原始胚胎神经细胞，逐步发育分化为完全成熟的神经元，并与现有神经元建立突触连接，甚至进一步髓鞘化。
促使胚胎细胞成长为成熟神经细胞的关键物质是“脑源性神经营养因子”（BDNF, Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor）。“Trophic”意为生长，因此神经营养因子就是促进神经元生长的催化剂。促进 BDNF 分泌的最强驱动力是**有氧运动（Aerobic Exercise）**和食用**深色表皮食物（Dark-skinned foods）**。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 神经可塑性的三种主要机制
accDescr: 结构图展示了髓鞘化、突触连接和神经发生三种神经可塑性机制及其特点。
subgraph Mechanisms["神经可塑性机制"]
A["髓鞘化 (Myelination)<br/>精进既有优势技能"]
B["突触连接 (Synaptic Connection)<br/>既有神经元互联并建立新回路"]
C["神经发生 (Neurogenesis)<br/>未分化细胞成长为成熟神经元"]
end
BDNF["脑源性神经营养因子 (BDNF)<br/>促使胚胎神经细胞成熟"] --> C
Aerobic["有氧运动"] --> BDNF
DarkFood["深色表皮食物"] --> BDNF
```
---
### [01:26:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5161s) 有氧运动与神经细胞更替率
Tara 分享了一个关于运动与大脑细胞更新的“趣味科学事实”：
- 长期保持规律有氧运动的人，大脑中未成熟神经细胞向成年细胞转变的更替率（Turnover rate）约为 **13% 至 14%**。
- 如果此前有一段时间缺乏运动，随后重新开启有氧运动，其神经细胞转化率会激增到约 **30%**。
Tara 开玩笑说，这就是她平时给自己当“沙发土豆（Couch potato）”找的借口——歇一阵再重新开始，反而能刺激爆发性的神经发生。Steven Bartlett 顺着逻辑推导：如果一个人正在学习一门全新的外语，配合有氧运动能够大幅加速神经可塑性、记忆形成与保留。力量训练（如举重）虽然对大脑有其他益处，但对于直接刺激神经发生的效应远不如有氧运动显著。
---
### [01:27:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5257s) 意念的力量：仅凭想象如何实现肌肉增长 13%
在探讨意念对肉体的影响（Mind over matter）时，Tara 引用了一项针对两组举重者的对比实验。实验聚焦于手指和肘部的负重训练，持续时间为两周：
- **第一组（实际训练组）**：在两周内进行实际的手指或肘部力量训练，目标肌群的肌肉质量增长了约 **40%**。
- **第二组（纯心智想象组）**：两周内完全不触碰任何器械，仅仅静坐并全神贯注地在脑海中**观想（Visualize）**自己正在举重。结果显示，他们的目标肌群肌肉质量增长了 **13%**。
Steven 听到这里忍不住打趣：“所以我们可以用大脑向肌肉发指令让它生长？那我何必去健身房，坐在沙发上一边看足球一边想象自己在举重不就行了！”Tara 笑着纠正，看足球时三心二意是不管用的，观想训练的核心在于极高的注意力、意图聚焦与心智投入。这正解释了为什么顶级运动员都普遍将心智观想作为正式训练的一部分。在规律睡眠和健康饮食的基础上，借助积极的意念观想去塑造身材或追求目标，具备切实可循的神经科学依据。
---
### [01:29:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5395s) 花青素与大脑饮食：选择深色食材
在健康均衡的植物性饮食基础之上，Tara 强烈建议优先挑选表皮颜色更深的食材版本：
- **作用机制**：深色植物表皮中的天然色素富含名为“花青素（Anthocyanins）”的高活性抗氧化成分，能直接促进神经发生。
- **具体替换建议**：
- 用黑豆代替白芸豆
- 用蓝莓代替草莓
- 用黑巧克力代替牛奶巧克力
- 用紫发芽西兰花（Purple sprouting broccoli）代替普通绿西兰花
- 优质黑咖啡同样富含有益的多酚与抗氧化物
---
### [01:30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5444s) 重塑大脑的基础条件与“进阶二阶玩法”
Steven 梳理了神经可塑性的执行要领：觉察固有行为模式、理解其后果，并借助持续重复来建立新回路。但他追问，想要彻底重塑大脑还需要满足哪些身体前提？Tara 强调，大脑需要适宜的生理环境才能支撑高强度的认知转变。
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 促进神经可塑性的生理条件分级
accDescr: 流程图展示从一级基础生理条件到二级进阶断食策略的层级递进关系。
subgraph Level1["一级基石 (Level 1 Foundations)"]
L1_Sleep["每晚规律睡眠约8小时<br/>固定就寝时间窗口"]
L1_Exercise["温和运动/避免过度高强度<br/>防止皮质醇骤升"]
L1_Diet["每周摄入30种不同植物<br/>多样化食物色彩"]
L1_Stress["有效减压与充足水分"]
end
subgraph Level2["二级进阶 (Level 2 Advanced)"]
L2_IF["间歇性断食 / 限时进食<br/>(如 12:00-20:00 进食)"]
L2_StressRelief["平稳血糖与提升适应性韧性"]
end
Level1 -->|仅在基石稳固后开启| Level2
```
- **睡眠规律性**：每晚保证约 8 小时睡眠，且入睡和起床时间最好相对固定（波动在 1 小时以内，例如每晚 10:00 到 11:00 间入睡）。
- **拒绝久坐但避免过度剧烈**：保持身体活动，但针对神经可塑性而言，不宜过度进行极高强度的力量或力竭训练，因为那会导致压力激素皮质醇（Cortisol）飙升，反而损害神经元；适度而温和的有氧运动效果最佳。
- **植物多样性**：每周摄入至少 30 种不同的植物性食材，并尽可能丰富色彩。
- **进阶限时进食（Time-Restricted Eating）**：在打好上述基础后，可开启轻断食（例如在 12:00 至 20:00 的 8 小时窗口内进食，Tara 本人便保持此习惯，或采取 8:00 至 20:00 的 12 小时窗口）。断食能够平稳血糖、延缓大脑衰老并促进长寿。但 Tara 严正警告：断食对机体而言本质上也是一种压力源，唯有基石稳固的人才能将其转化为构建韧性的“良性压力”；若是长期缺觉、压力过大且饮食不良的人贸然断食，只会适得其反。
在生理条件完备后，驱动神经可塑性还需要主动承担**高负荷的认知挑战（Cognitive Challenges）**——那些能够强行打破既有神经回路的新技能。例如 Steven 提到自己过去一年里一直在从零学习当 DJ，Tara 对此高度认可，确认这正是大脑开拓全新通路所必需的典型挑战。随后对话转向探讨如何利用脑科学原理来重建个人的自信与自尊心。
### [01:33:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5619s) 元认知与内在对话：用神经可塑性重塑自我认知
针对建立自信与自尊的过程，塔拉·斯瓦特（Dr. Tara Swart）指出，设定目标、重复练习与问责机制固然重要，但还有一个能迅速见效的“启动捷径”：大多数缺乏自信的人，内心深处往往固化了一条反复出现的消极思维。只要能精准识别出这句消极自白，并创造一条反向的积极确认语（affirmation）去对冲它，就能打开局面。斯瓦特博士以自己过去的思维模式为例，她以往脑海中最常响起的警报是：“这件事必须尽善尽美，但它肯定做不到完美（It has to be perfect and it's not going to be perfect）。”若在去年，她还无法从容转换心态，而现在她已能坚定地对自己说：“这不仅会很完美，而且会超越完美，绝对会无比惊艳。”而在过渡阶段，也可以使用更温和的缓冲话术，例如“不一定要完美，但一定会非常棒”，或者反问自己：“这里可能发生的最佳结果是什么？”
这种觉察并修正脑内语言的机制，正是认知科学中所说的“元认知”（metacognition）——即对自己思维过程的审视与理解。即便最初某些积极自白听起来并不完全可信，只要态度坚决地反转叙事并不断重复，就能借助神经可塑性（neuroplasticity），逐步磨损甚至替代旧有的消极神经通路。斯瓦特博士强调，语言至关重要，无论是在心里默念还是大声对自己及他人说出来，大脑最终都会选择相信那句重复频率更高、刺激更强烈的表述。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 元认知重塑神经通路机制
accDescr: 展示消极思维如何通过元认知觉察转化为积极自白，并通过高频重复利用神经可塑性重构信念
subgraph OLD["旧有消极回路"]
A["识别核心负面信念<br/>（例：必须完美但注定失败）"]
B["自尊挫败与焦虑循环"]
A --> B
end
subgraph META["元认知干预与重塑"]
C["启动元认知觉察<br/>审视内在对话"]
D["构建积极确认话术<br/>（例：可能发生的最好结果是什么）"]
C --> D
end
subgraph NEW["神经可塑性巩固"]
E["高频度复述与思维置换"]
F["旧通路磨损，建立新信念基准"]
E --> F
end
B -.-> C
D --> E
```
### [01:35:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5728s) 识破“虚假自白”：大脑为何拒绝浮夸的镜前鸡汤
斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）对此提出了个人发展领域常见的现象：许多人倡导每天对着镜子对自己喊口号，比如“我很美、我很有魅力、大家都会爱我、我要发大财了”。斯蒂芬坦言自己完全无法认同这种做法，因为潜意识十分精明，立刻就会意识到自己在“胡说八道（bullshitting myself）”，大脑根本不可能被如此脱离现实的话所欺骗。
斯瓦特博士对此深表赞同，并剖析了其中的深层心理机制：
- **浮于表面与逃避根源**：“我很美”、“我是万人迷”等陈词滥调非常肤浅，并没有触及内心真正的匮乏与创伤；而像“我要发大财”这类口号更是适得其反，因为财富必须依赖切实的行为落地，绝不可能靠空喊口号实现。
- **直击底层的真实确认语**：斯瓦特博士分享了自己从刘易斯·豪斯（Lewis Howes）的播客中获得的启发。豪斯提到自己有时只需要简单地对自己重复一句话：“我很安全，我很安全，我很平安（I'm safe. I'm safe. I'm okay.）。”斯瓦特发现，相比于“我很美”、“我很厉害”这种浮夸的赞美，这种确认基本生存安全感的话语，才是心灵深处真正渴望听到的声音。
- **剥离外在期望的内在诉求**：真正有效的自我确认语，应当剥离社会标准、家庭期望以及同龄人群体的比较压力，回归自己内心真正需要相信的底气，从而赋能个人走向真实世界去采取行动。
### [01:37:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5825s) “显化法则”的科学真相：源于大脑而非宇宙魔法
谈及将信念转化为现实，斯蒂芬提到了饱受争议的“显化”（manifestation）。在很多大众认知中，显化被等同于玄学巫术（woo-woo），仿佛只要坐在家里冥想、在愿景板上贴上豪宅跑车，宇宙就会自动把一切吸过来。斯蒂芬分享了一段多年前在纽约约会的真实趣事：女方坚称只要心里极度渴望成为百万富翁，哪怕什么都不做，宇宙也会把财富显化到生命中。斯蒂芬当场反问“连实际行动都不需要吗？”，对方依然斩钉截铁地说“不需要”。这场观念冲突最终导致两人不欢而散，该女子甚至直接在纽约繁华的街头愤然跳下出租车扬长而去。
斯瓦特博士明确指出，她所坚信并倡导的显化，有着严谨的认知科学（心理学与神经科学）支撑：
- **大脑即是一切的源头（The Source）**：她在撰写《源泉》（*The Source*）一书时，曾用整整一个夏天研究吸引力法则，发现其背后的所有有效机制都能用认知科学完美诠释。显化并非靠所谓的“大气层神秘磁场”，而是由思维方式改变触发的感知转变与实际行动。
- **从愿景板（Vision Board）到行动板（Action Board）**：斯瓦特博士将传统的“愿景板”重新定义为“行动板”。图像板的作用并非向宇宙下订单，而是让大脑对目标保持高度警觉与具象认知，主体依然必须亲自走入真实世界去争取和实现。
- **夺回掌控权的赋能感**：相信是自己的大脑与行动达成了目标，远比寄托于某种虚无缥缈的外在未知力量更具掌控感与力量感。
### [01:39:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5952s) 亲密关系中的镜像法则：以自身的成熟度显化理想伴侣
当斯蒂芬询问如何用基于大脑的科学显化方法去吸引理想的人生伴侣时，斯瓦特博士提出了一个极具颠覆性的法则：列出自己希望伴侣拥有的所有特质与品质清单，但在此之后，必须审视自己，确保自己也完整具备清单上的每一项品质。斯蒂芬幽默地打趣道：“那如果我想找个金发女郎，我还得去把自己的头发染成金色吗？”两人随即会心大笑，斯蒂芬迅速回归正题，指出这里指的是底层的核心价值观。
斯瓦特博士深入阐述了亲密关系中的心理镜像效应：
- **心理发展水平的对等吸引**：在心理学层面，一个人所吸引和建立关系的伴侣，往往与自己处于相同的“心理演化水平（level of psychological evolution）”。
- **创伤维度的对等共振**：一枚硬币的另一面是，人们也会在彼此“心理创伤（psychological wound）”相同深度的层面上相遇并纠缠在一起。
- **自我贡献与关系的平衡**：一段健康的优质关系要求双方都具备充足的心理资本。斯瓦特博士直言：“如果对方各方面都极度优秀，而你本身就是个拖油瓶（drag），没有人愿意跟你在一起。”
- **告别“拖油瓶陷阱（Dragsville）”**：斯蒂芬坦承，在自己人生中最处于“拖油瓶”状态的低谷期，虽然内心渴望优秀的人，但吸引来的全都是同质的拖油瓶。斯瓦特博士点出，斯蒂芬之所以能走出那个泥潭并最终与如今优秀的伴侣相遇，核心在于他坚信自己能蜕变，并通过自我提升彻底走出了“拖油瓶之城（Dragsville）”。
- 斯蒂芬对此深表赞同，并高度概括了这一智慧：“我们因共同的价值观而比翼齐飞，也会因未愈的创伤而跌入深渊（We'll rise to the level of our values, and we'll fall to the level of our wounds）。”现代社会往往只关注从伴侣身上索取什么，却很少有人真正反思自己能为一段关系奉献出怎样的价值。
### [01:42:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6124s) 给予心态与索取心态的神经生物学差异
斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）回顾了自己在商业管理和人际关系中的核心观察：那些只关注自己“想要得到什么”的人，往往得不到想要的结果；相反，那些专注于自己“能提供什么价值”的人，最终通常能如愿以偿。斯蒂芬提到自己曾在 Instagram 上分享过这个感悟：在职场中，那些整天追着老板问“我能不能加薪”的员工通常得不到晋升；而那些埋头专注于创造价值、思考能为公司贡献什么的员工，老板会主动给予升职和加薪。虽然短期内或极少数情况下可能有人“钻空子”暂时跑在才华或价值前面，但从长远来看，生活总会有一种奇妙的力量，把人重新拉回与自身价值相匹配的高度，正如塔拉·斯瓦特（Dr Tara Swart）此前所言——生活要么将你拉低到伤痛的深谷，要么将你托举到价值观的高处。
塔拉·斯瓦特从神经生物学角度对这一现象进行了解析。她指出，当一个人整天处于匮乏与索取的状态（“我想要加薪、我想要那个男人”）时，身体内会持续分泌压力荷尔蒙——皮质醇（Cortisol），使人陷入焦虑和紧绷的应激状态；相反，如果一个人的心态转变为“我能为对方做些什么”、“我有充沛的爱可以给予”，大脑就会分泌催产素（Oxytocin）。催产素不仅带来温暖与连接感，还会散发出全然不同的个人气场。在人际交往中，人们天然会被散发着催产素状态的人所吸引，而非浑身散发皮质醇压力的人。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 索取心态与给予心态的生理机制对比
accDescr: 对比了专注索取导致皮质醇与排斥，与专注给予带来催产素与吸引力两种路径。
subgraph 索取路径 ["索取心态 (Taking Mindset)"]
A["聚焦于自身索取<br/>'我想要加薪 / 伴侣'"] --> B["诱发高压应激<br/>皮质醇 (Cortisol) 飙升"]
B --> C["焦虑紧绷状态<br/>人际排斥 / 结果落空"]
end
subgraph 给予路径 ["给予心态 (Giving Mindset)"]
D["聚焦于创造价值<br/>'我能为你提供什么 / 给予爱'"] --> E["激活联结激素<br/>催产素 (Oxytocin) 释放"]
E --> F["温暖从容状态<br/>吸引力倍增 / 长期回馈"]
end
```
### [01:43:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6221s) 神经多样性：自闭症与 ADHD 的诊断激增与演化视角
斯蒂芬提起当前文化中备受关注的议题——神经多样性（Neurodiversity），特别是自闭症（Autism）和注意力缺陷多动障碍（ADHD）。他分享道，最近有一位母亲发语音向他倾诉，其孩子刚被确诊自闭症，这位母亲感到极度迷茫与痛苦，急切想知道这种病症到底因何而起、是否遗传。同时许多播客嘉宾也频繁讨论 ADHD 诊断率的激增，让人不禁怀疑这是否是现代生活方式导致的。斯蒂芬向曾做过儿童精神科医生的塔拉请教：在神经科学看来，神经多样性到底是什么？其根源何在？
塔拉解释称，神经多样性本质上涵盖了所有不属于“典型大脑”（Neurotypical brain）认知与运作模式的情况，包括读写障碍（Dyslexia）、计算障碍（Dyscalculia）、ADD、ADHD 以及自闭症/阿斯伯格综合征（Asperger's spectrum）等。针对近年来诊断数量的暴增，塔拉给出了双重分析：
- **诊断水平的显著提升**：塔拉回忆自己过去诊治患有 ADHD 的小男孩时，在调取完整家族病史时，往往会发现他们的父亲长期缺席、经历过多段失败的人际关系、无法保住一份稳定的工作。在那个时代，这些父亲只是被称为“不稳定”，但实际上他们极大概率也患有 ADHD，只是从未得到诊断。
- **环境剧变下的适应与演化**：现代社会节奏极快、科技无处不在，大脑处于一种“永远在线”（Always-on）的高负荷环境。一些研究观点甚至认为，自闭症可能是人类大脑为了跟上急速变化的世界而出现的一种进化适应形式。
- **社会建构带来的挑战**：以读写障碍为例，人类可能一直都存在不同程度的读写困难特质，但在现代标准化学校教育、书面阅读和考试制度建立之前，这种特质并不会成为一种障碍；正是因为现代社会的构造，才让这类特质显现为严重的问题。
- **原住民智慧的包容性**：塔拉对比了原住民古老智慧对性别认同（Gender identity）和性取向（Sexual orientation）的理解。在古老文明中，性少数群体早已被完全理解并接纳，甚至在部落社会中拥有崇高的精神地位，而现代文明反而还在为这些议题困惑和争论。
### [01:47:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6436s) 原住民智慧中的调节法：哼鸣与副交感神经系统
斯蒂芬问及塔拉在第二季播客中探索的原住民古老智慧，好奇除了“学习葡萄牙语”这种外语认知训练之外，有哪些对日常生活影响深远的古老智慧实践。塔拉指出，古老智慧中一个非常明确的主题与创造力及神经调节有关，那就是“哼鸣”（Humming）和诵经（Chanting）。这种练习在阿育吠陀（Ayurveda）以及美洲原住民（First Americans）文化中流传已久。
尽管古人可能并不明白其背后的生化机制，但神经科学研究发现，哼鸣具有强大的平复神经系统功效。斯蒂芬随即想起畅销书作家詹姆斯·内斯特（James Nestor）在节目中也提过同样的观点，指出通过鼻腔哼鸣对身体健康和免疫系统大有裨益。
- **多部位哼鸣技巧**：哼鸣可以通过闭口鼻腔发声、喉咙后部共鸣（Throat humming），或是双唇之间震动发声。
- **生理调控机制**：哼鸣的核心机制在于刺激迷走神经，迅速调节并激活副交感神经系统（Parasympathetic Nervous System），帮助身体从紧张对抗的“交感神经状态”平复下来，而这种练习随时随地都可以在日常通勤（如坐地铁时）悄悄进行。
### [01:49:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6542s) 逆转衰老的心理启动效应：著名的“时钟倒转”实验
斯蒂芬引出了衰老与长寿的话题，重点探讨了塔拉在书中所写的“心理启动效应”（Psychological Priming）对衰老过程的影响——即一个人对衰老的心态不仅影响其心理，还会真真切切地反映在生理机能上。对此，塔拉详细分享了心理学与衰老研究史上极具震撼力的经典实验（即埃伦·兰格 Ellen Langer 著名的逆时针实验）：
研究人员将一群 80 多岁的老人（Octogenarians）分为三组进行为期一周的对比观察：
| 实验组别 | 实验环境与干预措施 | 一周后的生理与外观改变 |
|:--- |:--- |:--- |
| **第一组：对照组** | 保持平时的日常生活方式，持续一周。 | 各项生理指标与外观无显著变化。 |
| **第二组：回忆组** | 尽可能频繁地在日常交谈与思考中回忆自己 60 岁时的生活细节。 | 身体机能与精神状态出现了一定程度的改善，但效果不如浸润组。 |
| **第三组：情境浸润组（重活 60 岁）** | 被送到完全改装为 20 年前样貌的房子里生活。屋内摆放 20 年前的旧报纸、当年的老照片，且从踏入大门起就被告知“你们现在是 60 岁，必须自己拎行李上楼”。 | **身姿挺拔**：不良体态改善，身高实际变高；<br/>**协调性提高**：骨骼肌肉协调能力显著强于一周前；<br/>**面容逆龄**：不知情的第三方评审一致认为他们一周后的照片比刚到达时显著年轻。 |
塔拉强调，当这些 80 多岁的老人刚到实验场地询问“谁来帮我们提行李”时，工作人员直接拒绝并提醒他们“你们现在是 60 岁，必须自己搬”。从思维信念到周围环境的完全重置，仅仅经过短短一周，老人们不仅肌肉协调性明显恢复，而且因为体态舒展使得身高测量值变高，外貌呈现出可测量的年轻化逆转，证明了潜意识心态对肉体衰老机制具有惊人的塑造力。
### [01:51:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6668s) 拒绝预设的衰老：Dr Tara Swart 的视力逆转经历
Dr Tara Swart 分享了一个极具震撼力的亲身故事，说明心态和自我暗示如何直接对身体产生生理影响。她的验光师是一位与她同龄的印度裔医生。在一次常规检查中，验光师对她说：“我想你明年大概就需要戴老花镜（reading glasses）了。”Tara 当场表示强烈拒绝：“不，我绝不戴老花镜，那会让人看起来非常苍老。”尽管验光师笑着解释说，虽然他们两人看起来都比实际年龄年轻，但眼睛的生理衰老是人人平等的，Tara 依然坚定地回应：“我的眼睛绝不会衰老。”
一年后，Tara 再次回去复查。验光师随口问她阅读情况如何，她说一切正常。验光师转过身开始做视力测试，测试进行到一半，他突然在转椅上猛地转过身，震惊地看着她：“你的视力不但没有恶化，甚至没有维持原样——你的视力变好了！”当被追问做了什么时，Tara 坦言，自己根本没做特殊治疗，唯一做的就是从心理上“对老花镜说不”；平时看手机或书本如果觉得拿远一点会更轻松，她故意不拿远，强迫眼睛维持原本的肌肉调节机能。她解释道，这种做法的本质就是**拒绝接受外界强加的限制**（not accepting the limitation），并且不轻易改变自己的行为模式，正如逆龄实验中被要求像年轻时那样自理起居的老人一样，打破了“到了某个岁数就必须戴老花镜或拄拐杖”的心智枷锁。
- **视力复查的反转**：验光师通过仪器检测发现 Tara 的屈光和视力指标不仅没有随年龄衰退，反而出现了生理性提升。
- **行为不退让原则**：当视觉产生轻微疲劳感时，不顺从本能将物体拉远，而是维持原有的认知与视觉挑战，避免大脑形成“视力已衰退”的神经通路。
---
### [01:53:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6788s) 语言对身体的瞬时操控：佛罗里达“退休词汇”实验
Tara 接着引入了一项著名的心理学实验（约翰·巴奇的佛罗里达启动实验），用以证明语言对生理行为的控制有多么迅捷和深远。在佛罗里达州的一群年轻医学生被要求完成一项测试：他们在五个房间之间穿行，每个房间的桌上摆放着写有单词的纸条，受试者需要用这些词组成一个完整的句子。学生们以为这只是一个单纯的造句语言测试。
然而真正的实验在于其中一个房间摆放的词汇暗藏玄机——桌上的单词是“佛罗里达（Florida）”、“沙滩（beach）”、“阳光（sunshine）”、“散步（walk）”和“平房（bungalow）”。结果显示，**所有医学生从这个房间走出来时的步伐，明显比从其他任何房间走出来时都要缓慢**。这些词汇在潜意识中激活了与“退休（retirement）”和“衰老”相关的概念，大脑在毫无察觉的情况下直接向身体肌肉下达了放慢速度的指令。这个实验生动地证明：语言对大脑以及后续生理行为的影响是即时且极为强大的。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 佛罗里达词汇启动实验机制
accDescr: 展示环境词汇如何无意识激活大脑潜意识联想，并最终导致外在行走步速放缓的生理反应。
subgraph Input ["外部环境刺激"]
Words["退休相关词汇<br/>(佛罗里达 / 沙滩 / 散步 / 平房)"]
end
subgraph Brain ["大脑认知处理"]
Subconscious["激活潜意识联想<br/>(衰老、退休、缓慢)"]
end
subgraph Action ["生理行为输出"]
SlowWalk["肌肉与运动系统协同减速<br/>(学生走出房间的步速明显放缓)"]
end
Words --> Subconscious
Subconscious --> SlowWalk
```
---
### [01:54:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6840s) 夺回语言的主导权：“需要”与“选择”的心理分野
Steven 对此深有共鸣，并分享了自己在拍摄 YouTube Vlog《Behind the Diary》时的真实体会。在录制英国商业投资真人秀《龙穴》（Dragon's Den）的幕后花絮时，他脱口而出一句：“今天早上我真的很需要（need）一杯咖啡。”但他立刻在镜头前纠正了自己，意识到随意使用“需要”这个词是在剥夺自己的掌控感（disempowering），将自己置于被咖啡奴役的被动地位。
Steven 强调，频繁在生活中说“我需要某物”，不仅会诱发心理上的依赖，甚至会逐渐固化成身体层面的生理瘾头，暗示自己处于匮乏状态。Tara 完全赞同，并建议将表述改为：“今天我要犒劳自己（treat myself to）一杯咖啡。”这种微小的用词转变，将无能为力的依赖变成了自我主导的主动抉择（choice）。两人由此延伸到个人责任（personal responsibility）的讨论：许多人习惯说“我没时间健身（I don't have time）”，这是一种受害者视角的外部归因；而更客观、更具赋能感的表述应当是“我目前有其他优先级（I've got other priorities）”。无论是为了陪伴孩子还是为了赚钱还房贷，承认这是自己的主动选择，能彻底重塑人的内心格局；相反，如果整天对自己念叨“我很邋遢、我毫无条理”，大脑就会顺应这套语言系统，让人真的变成那样的人。
- **“我需要（I need）” vs. “我选择 / 我犒赏自己（I choose / I treat myself）”**：前者强化匮乏与被动受控感，后者建立自主掌控权。
- **“我没时间（I don't have time）” vs. “我有其他优先级（My priorities are elsewhere）”**：打破推诿于外在不可抗力的借口，直面个人责任。
---
### [01:56:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6973s) 改变生命的起点：5分钟具象化显化与感恩实践
在对话接近尾声时，Steven 询问，对于那些渴望改变但已被生活模式深深固化的人——比如他在路上遇到的那位渴望创业、却被日复一日开出租车的固定习惯牢牢困住的出租车司机——迈向理想自我的“第一步”究竟该做什么？Tara 指出，虽然改变的旅程需要后续大量的艰苦努力，但第一步其实非常清晰而纯粹：**极度明确自己到底想要什么，然后每天坐下来进行 5 分钟的沉浸式具象化冥想（Visualisation），并在其中融入感恩**。
Tara 详细拆解了这 5 分钟的实操法：
1. **明确目标**：在脑海中清晰勾勒你想成为的人（例如一个情绪稳定体贴的伴侣、井井有条的人、拥有高收听率播客的成功企业家）。
2. **全感官沉浸**：不要只在脑海中放幻灯片，而是要“在身体中感受它、在口中品尝它、在耳边听见它”，调动所有感官全面沉浸在那个已经成真的现实中至少 5 分钟。
3. **由衷感恩（Give gratitude）**：为这些已经成为现实的愿景生出深切的感恩之情。
Tara 总结道，这一练习的核心神经学机制在于：**它将大脑从长期的“恐惧与匮乏状态”（fear state）切换到“信任与充裕状态”（trust state）**。只有当大脑进入信任状态时，神经重塑的大门才会真正敞开，进而支撑后续的实质性行动转变。Steven 感慨表示，这次长谈让他彻底打破了自己是“不可改变的僵化细胞团”的认知，不仅在科学层面上理解了神经可塑性，也终于通过现代脑科学的视角，看清了“显化（manifestation）”背后严谨的心理学与生理学逻辑。
### [01:59:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7196s) 扉页提问：释放未竟的创造力与年少梦想
在节目惯例的“前一位嘉宾留下的提问”环节中，史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）翻开了日记本，念出了留给塔拉·斯瓦特博士（Dr. Tara Swart）的问题：“有什么事情是你既可以选择去改变，又可以选择为此感到无比自豪与快乐的？”塔拉略作沉吟后表示，自己最渴望去实现并为此感到欢欣的，是终于能够真正觉得自己是一个“富有创造力的人”（a creative person）。虽然她坦言目前尚无法具体勾勒出那究竟会以何种艺术形式呈现，但她深信自己已经走在了这条探索的道路上，只要方向日益明晰并付诸实践，那将带来巨大的成就感与愉悦。
面对史蒂文“你现在明明已经是一个极富创造力的人”的肯定与赞誉，塔拉深表感激，但解释称自己内心深处始终觉得还差关键的一步。这背后隐藏着一段深埋已久的成长创伤与过往故事：当年她的高中英语老师曾极力赞扬她的戏剧天赋，甚至力劝她：“你的戏剧天赋太出众了，你应该去牛津大学读英国文学，然后考入英国皇家戏剧艺术学院（RADA）。”然而，当她满心欢喜地回家向父母转述老师的高度评价时，父亲却断然拒绝，毫不留情地撂下狠话：“除非我死了（Over my dead body）。你必须先去读医学院，毕业之后你想做什么就随你便。”
- **年少时的艺术期许**：高中英语教师曾建议塔拉考取牛津大学攻读英语专业，并进入殿堂级的戏剧学府英国皇家戏剧艺术学院（RADA）深造。
- **家庭的严苛阻力**：在传统印度家庭观念下，父亲勒令她必须先完成医学院的学业取得医生资格，艺术梦想因此被彻底搁置。
---
### [02:01:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7295s) 代际创伤、移民家庭的执念与商业突围
谈及父亲当年的强烈反对，塔拉客观剖析了当时的社会环境与移民家庭的生存心态。在那个年代的英国电视荧幕上，几乎看不到任何南亚裔面孔，投身演艺界被视为风险极高且不可思议的举动；如今每当她在荧幕上看到与自己肤色相同的女演员大放异彩时，内心都会涌起无尽的欣慰与喜悦。她进一步指出，印度裔父母普遍将“职业稳定性”视为子女幸福的基石，极其看重稳定的工作与旱涝保收的薪水。由于家族里毫无经商传统，当年她毅然辞去体制内医生职务选择自主创业时，亲友们都觉得不可理喻。
创业之初，塔拉同样饱受失去固定月薪的恐惧折磨，但她很快意识到自主创业虽然可能在某个月毫无收入，却彻底打破了收入的天花板。当她创下“单月开票收入等同于过去做全职医生一整年薪资”的纪录时，内心的疑虑与恐惧彻底消散。此外，史蒂文提到了她家族的一个特殊背景——家人一直坚信她是未受过教育的祖母转世。正因祖母当年在印度乡村长大、终其一生未能读书识字并抱憾终身，整个家族便在塔拉身上倾注了全力，用金钱能买到的最优渥教育资源对她进行“过度补偿”（overcompensation），直接促成了她先后攻读了医学士学位（MD）与神经科学博士学位（PhD），但这却未必是她最初发自内心向往的人生轨迹。
- **阶层安全感与文化焦虑**：早期少数族裔在主流媒体中缺乏代表性，移民家长视医学为通往阶层跃迁与经济安全唯一的稳定坦途。
- **创业的收入突破**：脱离医疗体制后，她曾在一个月内开出发票赚取了相当于过去做全职医生整整一年的薪酬。
- **隔代补偿机制**：因祖母一生未受教育的遗憾，家庭将这种缺憾转化为执念，推动塔拉一路攻读并拿下了医学士与神经科学博士双学位。
---
### [02:03:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7380s) 告别寄语与播客新作展望
对谈接近尾声，史蒂文向塔拉表达了由衷的敬佩与感谢，称赞她不仅分享了深邃的科学洞见，整个人更如同散发着光芒与温暖的阳光（a ray of sunshine and light），用知识启迪并影响着大众。两人随后谈及了塔拉即将推出的全新音频项目。塔拉透露，她的个人播客节目《与塔拉博士一起重塑自我》（*Reinvent Yourself with Dr. Tara*）第一季已全网上线供听众收听，而紧接着的第二季定于10月4日正式开播，该季将深度探讨神经科学与古老东方智慧（ancient wisdom）的交汇融合。
在最后的幽默互动中，史蒂文巧妙地指出，塔拉的姓氏“Swart”中恰好内嵌了艺术一词（Art），这正是她命中注定蕴含创造力的绝佳印证。史蒂文热切期待下一次相聚时能见证她在艺术与创造性领域的进一步突破，并再次致谢这场兼具学术深度与情感温度的对话。塔拉亦满怀感激地向史蒂文致谢，访谈在温馨融洽的气氛中圆满落幕。
- **播客发布资讯**：《与塔拉博士一起重塑自我》（*Reinvent Yourself with Dr. Tara*）第二季定于10月4日开播，内容主打神经科学结合古老智慧。
- **名字的双关巧合**：史蒂文调侃塔拉的姓氏 Swart 中天生包含“Art”（艺术），预示着其创造力本质的觉醒。
## Notable quotes
> [19:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=1165s) 成也萧何，败也萧何（What got you here won't get you there） — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:07:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4029s) 从根本上说，你就是一生中所有选择的总和，这就是你之所以成为你的原因。 — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:16:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4571s) 知识就是力量（Knowledge is power） — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=4686s) 要想从悲伤中彻底痊愈，你必须坠入谷底（go to the bottom of the hole） — Dr Tara Swart
> [38:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=2284s) 同频共振的神经元会紧密连接（Neurons that fire together wire together） — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:39:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5952s) 如果对方各方面都极度优秀，而你本身就是个拖油瓶（drag），没有人愿意跟你在一起。 — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:39:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=5952s) 我们因共同的价值观而比翼齐飞，也会因未愈的创伤而跌入深渊（We'll rise to the level of our values, and we'll fall to the level of our wounds） — Steven Bartlett
> [01:51:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=6668s) 拒绝接受外界强加的限制（not accepting the limitation） — Dr Tara Swart
> [01:59:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA&t=7196s) 除非我死了（Over my dead body）。你必须先去读医学院，毕业之后你想做什么就随你便。 — Dr Tara Swart 的父亲
## Mentioned
Dr Tara Swart, Steven Bartlett, 《The Source》, 《The 33 Laws Of Business & Life》, 《Reinvent Yourself with Dr. Tara》, Eight Sleep, Huel, Tempur UK, NHS, 麻省理工学院 (MIT), 牛津大学, 英国皇家戏剧艺术学院 (RADA), 《龙穴》(Dragon's Den), Matthew Walker, Donald Hebb, Lewis Howes, James Nestor, Ellen Langer
## Video description
If you enjoy hearing about neuroscience and the power of the brain, I recommend listening to my conversation with Dr. Tali Sharot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DZK1nawEXQ
0:00 Dr Tara Swart - Neuroscientist on how your brain influences your health, relationships and well-being.
02:06 💼 How to improve my brain health?
13:04 🩸 How to lose stomach fat
16:03 👥 The affect stress has on women
24:00 🛌 How to improve memory
25:52 🧠 How to prevent Alzheimer's and Parkinson’s
30:28 👩❤️👨 Key things for a better relationship
38:04 🧠 How does intuition works & why you should always follow it
44:11 🧠 How did the pandemic affect our stress levels & mental health?
46:32 🌿 Why nature is really important for your health
47:13 🤝 How to find your purpose & why its vital for your mental health
01:00:01 🧠 What is neuroplasticity & why you should learn everything about it
01:07:04 🧠 How to stop my bad habits
01:10:11 🧬 How do I cope with trauma?
01:16:02 🤰 Can stress affect pregnancy?
01:23:45 🧠 How does neuroplasticity works?
01:27:12 🏋️♂️ How do I improve my memory?
01:30:01 🍇 What is the best diet?
01:30:55 🧠 What is the importance of neuroplasticity?
01:34:15 💬 How does what I say affect my brain?
01:39:12 👫 Qualities to look for in a partner
01:44:23 🧠 How is ADHD and autism diagnosed?
01:53:20 🗣️ How does what I say affect my behaviour?
01:58:32 🙏 How does visualisation work?
You can purchase Tara’s book, ‘The Source’, here: https://amzn.to/461TDRS
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[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCW2NHbWNwA)
Source quotes
[19:25] Dr Tara Swart: 成也萧何，败也萧何（What got you here won't get you there）
[67:09] Dr Tara Swart: 从根本上说，你就是一生中所有选择的总和，这就是你之所以成为你的原因。
[76:11] Dr Tara Swart: 知识就是力量（Knowledge is power）
[78:06] Dr Tara Swart: 要想从悲伤中彻底痊愈，你必须坠入谷底（go to the bottom of the hole）
[38:04] Dr Tara Swart: 同频共振的神经元会紧密连接（Neurons that fire together wire together）
[99:12] Dr Tara Swart: 如果对方各方面都极度优秀，而你本身就是个拖油瓶（drag），没有人愿意跟你在一起。
[99:12] Steven Bartlett: 我们因共同的价值观而比翼齐飞，也会因未愈的创伤而跌入深渊（We'll rise to the level of our values, and we'll fall to the level of our wounds）
[111:08] Dr Tara Swart: 拒绝接受外界强加的限制（not accepting the limitation）
[119:56] Dr Tara Swart 的父亲: 除非我死了（Over my dead body）。你必须先去读医学院，毕业之后你想做什么就随你便。
Source quotes
[64:14] Dr Tara Swart: You are basically the sum of every decision that you've made in your life.
[73:08] Dr Tara Swart: You aren't born with the genes that your parents had when they were born. You're born with the expression of the genes that your parents had around the time of conception.
[78:06] Dr Tara Swart: To ever heal from grief, you have to go to the bottom of the hole.
[97:05] Dr Tara Swart: Your brain is the source of you being able to attract everything that you want into your life... It's to do with the changes that you make based on your thought process.
[114:00] Steven Bartlett: There's something about this casual use of the word need throughout our lives that is disempowering me. It's making me a slave to the coffee.
[119:52] Dr. Tara Swart's father: Over my dead body. You'll go to medical school, and then after that, you can do whatever you want.
[119:52] Previous guest: What could you choose to change and choose to feel great about?
Original transcript
[0:00] Did you know there's a really
[0:01] fascinating experiment done on
[0:02] weightlifters? They lifted no weights
[0:04] for 2 weeks. They just sat there and
[0:06] they visualized themselves lifting
[0:07] weights.
[0:08] They had a 13% increase in muscle mass.
[0:12] People should realize how much potential
[0:14] they have in their brains. Dr. Tara
[0:16] Swart. She's a neuroscientist, medical
[0:18] doctor, executive advisor, and
[0:20] best-selling author. She's here to teach
[0:22] us on how to build mental resilience to
[0:24] overcome our biggest challenges.
[0:26] Is stress contagious?
[0:28] Mhm. So, cortisol is the main stress
[0:30] hormone and it will leak out of our
[0:32] sweat about this far around us, go into
[0:34] the skin of everybody else, and it's
[0:36] going to impact them.
[0:39] And as a survival mechanism, it will
[0:42] help you to store fat around your
[0:44] abdomen. So, stress causes belly fat?
[0:46] Belly fat that's really hard to shift.
[0:48] There's another rabbit hole you could go
[0:49] down about social contagion. So, there
[0:51] are statistics that show that you meet
[0:53] people who are to similar psychological
[0:55] level to you. For example, if someone
[0:57] gets divorced, you're more likely to get
[0:59] divorced in the next year. Your brain
[1:00] brain can play tricks on you. So, what
[1:03] can I do about that?
[1:04] The brain is actively growing and
[1:06] changing till we're about 25.
[1:08] But from 25 to 65, if you do things that
[1:12] are intense enough to force your brain
[1:14] to change, you will actually improve the
[1:16] highest functions of the brain. Things
[1:18] like regulate your emotions better,
[1:20] solve complex problems, think flexibly,
[1:23] override any unconscious biases that you
[1:25] may have. It begs the question then,
[1:27] where do I start?
[1:38] Dr. Tara Swart.
[1:40] What are the
[1:42] sort of existing ideas that your work
[1:46] and what you speak about
[1:48] is confronting, the like unhelpful
[1:50] existing preconceptions
[1:52] about the brain, human potential that
[1:55] your work is confronting head-on? So,
[1:58] the first thing I came up against, cuz
[1:59] this was around the time of the
[2:01] financial crisis,
[2:03] was the lack of understanding of the
[2:04] brain-body connection.
[2:06] So,
[2:07] these high-performing executives were
[2:09] kind of acting like
[2:12] their body was just the vehicle that was
[2:15] moving their brain around from meeting
[2:16] to meeting.
[2:18] And both
[2:20] disrespecting their
[2:21] their physical health, but also not
[2:24] understanding that what they were
[2:25] actually really being paid for was to
[2:27] use their brain, and they weren't
[2:29] creating the best conditions for that
[2:31] brain to operate in.
[2:32] Um and I'm talking about really basic
[2:34] things like sleep and a good diet and
[2:36] hydration and not being sedentary,
[2:39] managing your stress, etc.
[2:42] So, you know, this tiny organ,
[2:44] if it's not in an environment that is
[2:47] giving it the best chance of doing its
[2:49] job, it's not going to and a crack's
[2:51] going to appear somewhere.
[2:53] Um
[2:54] and the first time I really
[2:56] kind of
[2:57] had a big confrontation with a bank was
[2:59] when
[3:01] people were dropping dead on the trading
[3:02] floor of heart attacks.
[3:04] And they
[3:06] asked me to work more in my capacity as
[3:08] a former medical doctor to help with the
[3:10] physical stuff.
[3:12] And I said I can't do that if we don't
[3:13] address the mental and emotional piece
[3:16] because that's what's causing this.
[3:19] And they just could could not get that.
[3:21] What did you want to do with those
[3:23] people in a specific and practical
[3:24] sense? What if you could have,
[3:26] you know, been in charge of
[3:28] preventing them from dropping dead on
[3:29] the trading floor,
[3:30] Mhm. where would you have started?
[3:32] The understanding that stress,
[3:34] so everything that you're experiencing
[3:37] mentally and emotionally that's
[3:38] challenging, and things like a lot of
[3:41] travel, which is challenging for your
[3:42] body,
[3:43] that that raises levels of the hormone
[3:46] cortisol, which comes from your adrenal
[3:48] glands.
[3:49] And that cortisol courses around your
[3:51] blood through your entire body and
[3:54] brain.
[3:55] And the brain has receptors
[3:57] for understanding what's going on in
[3:59] terms of threat to your survival.
[4:02] So, in a 24-hour cycle, depending on
[4:04] your age and your gender, there's a
[4:06] normal range for cortisol. So, it can go
[4:08] up and down like this. You know, if
[4:09] something challenging happens, we need
[4:12] to adapt and rise to meet that
[4:13] challenge. But when that level is above
[4:16] the top range all the time, these
[4:19] receptors in your brain
[4:20] basically think that there's an imminent
[4:22] threat to your survival.
[4:24] So, there's this whole cascade of
[4:26] hormones,
[4:27] and they basically cortisol causes
[4:30] inflammation in the body. Mhm. So,
[4:32] inflammation of your vascular system,
[4:34] inflammation around your heart,
[4:36] and everything else, gut and, you know,
[4:38] other things. But
[4:39] particularly around that time we were
[4:41] seeing a lot of heart attacks caused by
[4:43] stress. This was in the absence of high
[4:45] blood pressure, high cholesterol,
[4:47] smoking. It was all stress.
[4:50] I read a I read a study and I was
[4:52] watching a TED Talk that seemed to make
[4:54] the case that stress was
[4:56] somewhat subjective. I It's an
[4:59] interpretation of of events. Mhm. So,
[5:01] one can be in a situation where they
[5:03] feel very stressed. You can put a
[5:05] different person in that situation and
[5:06] they wouldn't experience it as stress.
[5:08] Also, there is I think there's quite a
[5:09] famous TED Talk that makes the case that
[5:12] stress only has physiological
[5:14] consequences in the form of disease and
[5:17] inflammation and the heart attacks
[5:18] you're describing,
[5:20] if we believe
[5:22] that stress is going to have that effect
[5:24] on us. If we believe stress is bad.
[5:25] yeah. I get that.
[5:27] Is that true? Um
[5:29] So, I would define stress as when the
[5:33] load that you perceive on you
[5:36] physically, mentally, emotionally, or
[5:37] spiritually is too much for you to bear.
[5:41] So, yes, it is subjective.
[5:43] Um when I moved into business and
[5:45] leadership, people would use the terms
[5:47] good stress and bad stress, and I found
[5:49] that really difficult having been a
[5:50] psychiatrist and seeing people actually
[5:53] break down
[5:55] to think that there's any such thing as
[5:56] good stress. But what I have, you know,
[5:59] the way that I've adapted that over the
[6:00] last 10 or 15 years is that there's an
[6:03] adaptive response, which is a healthy
[6:04] response to a challenge, and we have
[6:07] that for a reason. We need that, and
[6:08] that can be a good thing, but that
[6:10] should be a spike. It should go up, and
[6:12] it should go back down again. If it
[6:13] stays high all the time,
[6:16] that's not good.
[6:18] My second question now is about the
[6:20] contagion of stress. Once upon a time I
[6:22] Googled, um cuz I had a thesis, I
[6:25] Googled is stress contagious?
[6:27] Mhm.
[6:28] And it came up, and it said it was
[6:30] contagious.
[6:32] Is it contagious? In what circumstances
[6:34] do we need to be aware of that
[6:35] contagion? And more importantly, how and
[6:37] why is it contagious? Okay, I will tell
[6:40] you the answer to that, but I'm going to
[6:41] ask you a question first.
[6:43] Have you ever walked into a room with
[6:44] someone, and by the time you've left
[6:47] that meeting with them, you just feel so
[6:49] drained?
[6:51] Okay, so you
[6:52] yeah. Yeah, you know so you know the
[6:53] feeling. So, I'll tell I'll tell you how
[6:54] it works physiologically.
[6:56] Um I'm going to start with something
[6:58] else to like build you up to this story.
[7:00] So, did you know that women who live
[7:03] together or work closely together will
[7:05] synchronize their menstrual periods
[7:07] within two or three months?
[7:08] Yeah, I found this out many years ago,
[7:10] and it has completely changed my
[7:12] perception on so many things.
[7:14] So many things because
[7:16] I have to be honest, I'm I'm a very sort
[7:18] of logical, I need like science and
[7:20] evidence, and so I always thought about
[7:24] I don't know, physical physical things.
[7:26] Like, if I can't see it, it doesn't
[7:27] exist. Yeah. It's kind of been my my
[7:28] like framework for thinking about life.
[7:30] And when I heard about that, I checked
[7:32] it was true, found out it was true, and
[7:34] it broke the frame in which I think,
[7:37] because if if there are invi- if if it's
[7:39] possible that invisible forces now
[7:41] between me and you are interacting with
[7:43] our bodies. Okay, what what else is
[7:44] possible?
[7:46] I'm already using a certain form of eye
[7:48] contact with you to create emotional
[7:50] resonance. Uh-oh. What have you done to
[7:51] me?
[7:51] We're going to get sidetracked. Do you
[7:52] want to go back to the whole thing?
[7:54] of eye contact are you using with me?
[7:58] Tell me. So, basically
[8:00] We'll go back to the whole money thing.
[8:00] We'll just park that.
[8:01] park that. It's it's related. Um
[8:04] so,
[8:05] when a baby is born,
[8:07] one of the ways that it learns what
[8:10] emotion the mom's experiencing, how it
[8:12] understands its own emotions, and you
[8:13] everything that grows over childhood and
[8:16] teenage and to,
[8:17] you know, prosocial behavior,
[8:20] starts off mostly with eye contact with
[8:23] the mom.
[8:24] So, at first they can hardly see
[8:25] anything. They can just kind of see two
[8:26] blobs, and then they start to understand
[8:28] more about like micro facial expression
[8:30] changes and stuff. But, eye contact with
[8:32] the mom is hugely important.
[8:34] So, most people are right-handed. So,
[8:36] they'll be holding their baby in their
[8:37] left arm, so they can still use their
[8:39] dominant hand do stuff.
[8:41] And that means that when you gaze at
[8:43] your baby,
[8:44] your right eye is looking into their
[8:46] left eye.
[8:48] And then that interaction that from the
[8:50] optic nerve
[8:51] is
[8:52] going around the brain. It's impacting
[8:55] the um amygdala, where emotions come
[8:58] from.
[8:59] And it's creating this emotional
[9:01] resonance loop that's part of how the
[9:02] mother and the baby bond.
[9:05] So, that right eye to left eye eye
[9:06] contact is the most bonding eye contact
[9:09] that you can have with someone. Now, you
[9:10] could say, "Oh, but my mom was
[9:12] left-handed." Or you could be
[9:13] left-handed, but, you know, if I'm
[9:15] taking a chance on trying to build that
[9:17] bond with someone, that's the
[9:19] statistically most likely one to create
[9:22] good resonance between you. So, you
[9:24] walked in here and you started looking
[9:25] in my left eye. I waited till we sat
[9:28] down.
[9:30] I gave you a hug. You gave me a hug, you
[9:32] know. So, all of these little things,
[9:34] they start to
[9:35] And, you know, we've laughed about a few
[9:36] things before we've come on air. Those
[9:38] are the sorts of things that create like
[9:41] um
[9:42] higher levels of the bonding hormone
[9:44] oxytocin. So, you're more likely to
[9:45] lower your guard, trust the person, take
[9:48] a healthy risk. Um
[9:51] So, yeah. I mean,
[9:52] like I said, I know that stuff. So, I
[9:54] live my life like that.
[9:56] Just want to get get make sure I've got
[9:57] that clearly in my mind so I could
[9:59] repeat that to someone else
[10:01] later. Good for dating. Yeah, of course
[10:04] it is. I think we might go down that
[10:06] that down that path a little bit, but
[10:07] the reason that works is because there's
[10:09] an association in our brains that if
[10:12] someone is looking into your left eye,
[10:13] it kind of triggers something a bonding
[10:15] response that is quite innate in us.
[10:18] Yeah. Is that the TLDR of it? Okay.
[10:20] Super interesting. What else?
[10:23] What else? If I'm trying to bond with
[10:25] someone. So, everybody listening to this
[10:26] right now, whether they're in work,
[10:27] they're in sales, they they're looking
[10:29] for a partner, whatever. It's a nice
[10:31] little trick
[10:31] Mhm. to look into someone's left eye.
[10:33] I'm going to only look into your left
[10:34] eye for the rest with your right eye.
[10:36] How do I I'm just looking with both.
[10:39] Yeah, you feel like that, but once you
[10:40] start doing this, I promise you, you
[10:42] will notice a difference. Okay.
[10:45] Um what else? What are the tricks to
[10:46] make to encourage bonding?
[10:48] Encourage bonding. So, physical
[10:50] interaction. So, um
[10:52] you know, depending on the
[10:53] appropriateness of it, minimum
[10:55] handshake,
[10:57] maybe a hug, maybe a kiss on the cheek,
[10:59] you know, depending on what um situation
[11:01] you're in. I do this handshake where I
[11:04] we hug so we don't handshake. I many
[11:06] many years ago I read an article that if
[11:08] when you
[11:09] shake someone's hand, you put the other
[11:11] hand over the top of it, it creates a
[11:13] sense of warmth and trust. So, I've been
[11:16] doing that for 10 years now. Give them
[11:18] my left hand or my right hand, and then
[11:19] the other hand goes over the top of it.
[11:21] Yeah. It's definitely extra, and you see
[11:23] this in a lot of um kind of more ancient
[11:25] cultures that there is like more of a
[11:28] handshake than what we do, which seems
[11:29] it's just one hand, and it's quite brief
[11:31] and stuff. So, yeah, the more of that
[11:33] kind of physical touch that you can get,
[11:36] the the better. So, you know, everyone
[11:37] that I've met since I've come in this
[11:39] morning, I've either shaken hands with
[11:41] them or hugged them, and I would not not
[11:43] do that. Mhm.
[11:46] Is there anything else in terms of
[11:47] encouraging the release of oxytocin
[11:50] that you're aware of? What are the
[11:51] behaviors that increase that bonding
[11:54] chemical in our brains?
[11:55] Um eye contact and touch are the main
[11:57] ones. Okay. Laughing together is another
[12:00] one. Um
[12:02] and then
[12:03] not to do with another person, but if
[12:05] you take a bath rather than a shower,
[12:06] then you'll release more oxytocin.
[12:09] Massage helps. Well, you're immersed in
[12:12] warm water, so it feels like a hug.
[12:17] So, you you'd theoretically get out of
[12:18] the bath and be kinder and happier and
[12:22] more people would want to bond with you
[12:24] more. Well, you'll be more in the mode
[12:26] of bonding. doing that, yeah.
[12:28] So interesting. What about um
[12:29] vulnerability?
[12:31] Cuz I I I heard shared struggle is one
[12:33] of the things that releases oxytocin.
[12:36] Yeah, so um yeah, going through
[12:38] something not necessarily traumatic, but
[12:41] that's highly emotional, that is very
[12:42] bonding as well.
[12:44] So, we see this a lot on the reality
[12:46] shows where people are like, "Oh, we're
[12:47] going to be friends for life." You know,
[12:49] if you do something like a skydive or a
[12:51] bungee jump in a group, then you know,
[12:53] you do feel more bonded to those people.
[12:55] Um but they're not as practical as the
[12:58] just the little things that you can do
[12:59] every day.
[13:00] Okay, so let's go back to this hormone
[13:02] conversation. We'll take that off the
[13:03] shelf. So, we're talking about stress
[13:04] and the contagion of stress.
[13:06] So, you started by setting the scene
[13:08] with the fact that women who interact
[13:10] with each other physically closely, they
[13:12] synchronize their menstrual cycles.
[13:14] And so, whenever I
[13:16] want to explain something that's complex
[13:19] or I don't actually know the current
[13:21] neuroscience, I always take it back to
[13:25] what happened in ancient times.
[13:27] So, when we were living in the cave,
[13:29] the men hunted and gathered and lived
[13:31] quite nomadically. So, sometimes they
[13:34] would go away for months at a time. And
[13:37] actually, if they went far enough away
[13:39] and were closer to another cave of the
[13:41] same tribe, they would actually just
[13:42] stay there and never return to the
[13:44] original tribe original cave. But
[13:46] mostly, they would leave for weeks or
[13:49] months and then return to the original
[13:50] cave.
[13:51] And in those days, the most fundamental
[13:55] important thing for the survival of the
[13:56] human species was that the alpha male
[13:58] must pass on his genes.
[14:01] So, if he was going to be away for
[14:02] months and he couldn't, you know, that
[14:05] there weren't men there to defend the
[14:06] women from predators, maybe there was
[14:08] going to be a spell of the ice age and
[14:10] they would all freeze to death or
[14:12] they wouldn't have food.
[14:14] Um
[14:15] he needed to make sure that at least
[14:18] five women were impregnated with his
[14:21] sperm at the same time. So, that if
[14:23] there was a food shortage or there was
[14:24] like stillbirth or miscarriage or
[14:26] whatever, at least one out of five would
[14:28] survive.
[14:30] So, to be able to do that, they had to
[14:32] be fertile at the same time. So, that's
[14:34] why that mechanism exists.
[14:36] Now, we don't need that mechanism now,
[14:39] but it's still wired into the way that
[14:41] we operate. So, those sex steroid
[14:45] hormones like estrogen and progesterone,
[14:48] they leak out of our sweat about this
[14:50] far around us. And that's why if you're
[14:52] living with another woman or if, you
[14:53] know, you're sitting across the desk
[14:54] every day,
[14:56] then particles of hormone from my sweat
[14:59] would go into the
[15:01] through the skin of the other woman. If
[15:03] she's within what distance? I mean, it's
[15:05] not you wouldn't have to be sitting next
[15:07] to each other. If you live together,
[15:08] then that means you're interacting
[15:09] enough that it would happen.
[15:10] Okay.
[15:12] So, particles
[15:13] not if you work together. If you work
[15:15] together and you sit right next to each
[15:16] other every day, then it does happen,
[15:18] too. So, you know, in a a small office
[15:20] that's got like six girls in it, that
[15:22] that the menstrual synchronization will
[15:24] happen.
[15:25] Interestingly, it's led by the alpha
[15:27] female. So, yeah.
[15:30] So, you can you can work out if you
[15:32] don't know already who the alpha female
[15:33] it well, if you you know, basically,
[15:36] let's say my cycles don't change and
[15:37] everyone says, "Oh, I got my period
[15:39] early or I haven't had my period yet,
[15:40] but now it's started." Then that would
[15:42] mean that I probably I was the alpha
[15:44] female.
[15:46] How does the body know who the alpha
[15:47] female is?
[15:48] That will be to do with levels of
[15:49] testosterone. Why why did the body Why
[15:52] does that matter who the alpha female
[15:53] is? Why does it matter that they sync up
[15:55] with her? I I don't I don't know if it
[15:57] really matters. I think it's just a case
[15:59] of physiology. So, it's a little bit
[16:00] like in the um
[16:03] troops of gorillas,
[16:06] the
[16:07] stress levels of the silverback gorilla
[16:10] affect the other gorillas more than
[16:12] gorillas who are peers to each other.
[16:14] So, there is we have a natural
[16:15] hierarchy. I mean, it must be related to
[16:18] survival as well.
[16:19] So, she was
[16:21] probably the person who the alpha male
[16:24] was going to impregnate first.
[16:26] Probably. So, everyone needs to kind of
[16:28] fall in line cuz when she starts having
[16:30] sex, they need to be ready.
[16:31] Yeah. Okay. And also, it'll probably be
[16:33] to do with things like, you know,
[16:35] survival genes. So, it'll be the people
[16:37] with the hardiest genes cuz that's what
[16:39] you'll want to pass on as well. Mhm.
[16:41] Okay, makes sense. Most resilient. Okay.
[16:44] Okay, so where were we?
[16:45] Stress and contagion.
[16:46] We've done all the hormones and the
[16:47] menstrual cycle stuff.
[16:48] So, basically, cortisol is the hormone
[16:50] that works in that same way. So,
[16:52] cortisol is the main stress hormone.
[16:54] And this one doesn't matter if you're
[16:56] male or female, but it does matter where
[16:57] you are in the hierarchy of the
[16:59] organization as I just mentioned.
[17:01] So,
[17:04] usually in that conversation I mentioned
[17:06] to you where you go into a room and you
[17:07] just feel completely drained afterwards,
[17:10] usually the person that comes out
[17:11] feeling drained is less senior than the
[17:13] person that's had that effect on them.
[17:15] And that's why this is so crucial to
[17:18] leadership.
[17:19] Because your stress levels as a leader,
[17:21] as a CEO, are going to have more impact
[17:24] on everybody else
[17:26] than the rest of the people um put
[17:29] together, basically. So, managing your
[17:31] stress is obviously important for you,
[17:33] but it's important in terms of what
[17:36] happens to other people. And the first
[17:37] issue I came up against was
[17:40] CEOs and CFOs that said, "Well,
[17:43] I won't show them that I'm stressed.
[17:46] I won't I won't tell them what's
[17:47] happening with the numbers. I won't
[17:50] display emotions in front of them." And
[17:51] I said, "They're still going to know
[17:53] physiologically. It's going to impact
[17:55] them."
[17:56] So, now you really have to do something
[17:57] about it.
[17:59] Um
[18:01] and the other thing about cortisol,
[18:03] which is quite funny,
[18:05] well,
[18:06] one of the side effects is quite funny,
[18:08] is that as a survival mechanism, it will
[18:12] help you to store fat around your
[18:14] abdomen.
[18:15] So, you know, again in the cave, if you
[18:17] were potentially going to like not find
[18:19] food for a month, then if you had extra
[18:21] fat around your abdomen, you could
[18:22] digest that and survive till you could
[18:24] find food.
[18:26] So, with my clients in financial
[18:28] services, it got to a point where as
[18:30] soon as I walked into the room, they'd
[18:31] just lift their t-shirts up and say,
[18:33] "Now you know how I've been in the last
[18:34] month."
[18:36] And then I had a really, really funny
[18:38] incident when I was speaking at a bank,
[18:41] and the CEO's
[18:43] PA was there in the audience.
[18:46] And I was explaining that, you know,
[18:47] leadership stress leaks down, that that
[18:50] stress can lead to abdominal fat that
[18:52] you can't shift. And she shouted out,
[18:56] "So, he's the reason that I'm fat."
[19:00] But, Steve, no one laughed.
[19:03] Really?
[19:03] Yeah.
[19:04] And that's when I knew that, okay, he
[19:06] obviously is like really stressing
[19:08] everyone out.
[19:10] Oh gosh, no one laughed.
[19:12] No.
[19:14] Through fear or something or just cuz
[19:16] they all just thought it was true? It
[19:17] wasn't funny. It was the truth. Jesus.
[19:21] So, stress causes belly fat? Mhm. Mhm.
[19:23] Belly fat that's really hard to shift.
[19:25] So, again, what I would see with people
[19:27] is that they would say, "Oh, I put on a
[19:28] bit of weight around the middle, you
[19:29] know, had to loosen the belt a bit. So,
[19:31] I've started eating less. I've started
[19:33] like exercising more and I still can't
[19:35] shift it." And again, that's when I
[19:36] would explain this is the impact of
[19:38] cortisol. As long as you're still
[19:40] leaking out extra cortisol, nothing's
[19:42] going to change. So,
[19:45] uh uh and like I said, even exercising
[19:47] more or eating better,
[19:49] less or differently, whatever it is,
[19:52] wouldn't shift that fat. You had to get
[19:54] to the root cause. You had to reduce the
[19:56] cortisol.
[19:58] It also made me think about when you
[20:00] consider promoting someone in your
[20:01] organization, Mhm. you have to be very
[20:03] careful that if you put a
[20:05] particularly stressed
[20:07] cortisol leaking individual high in the
[20:09] organization, there's going to be
[20:11] a significant impact for everyone below
[20:13] them. Yeah.
[20:14] Is that accurate? Is that an accurate
[20:15] observation?
[20:16] no, that's a really good way of putting
[20:17] it. I mean, I always think of that
[20:19] phrase, "What got you here won't get you
[20:20] there," which is more about the fact
[20:22] that people get promoted cuz they're
[20:23] good at what they do, but they don't
[20:24] really get taught all the, you know,
[20:26] best management and leadership skills.
[20:28] But that's a really pertinent point. If
[20:29] there are
[20:31] a person who is stressed particularly,
[20:33] who suppresses stress,
[20:35] um which some of these, you know,
[20:37] successful people do,
[20:39] then it would have an impact down the
[20:40] organization. It begs the question then.
[20:42] So, if if someone's listening to this
[20:44] and they go, "Do you know what? I'm a
[20:45] leaky cortisol person. I'm highly
[20:46] stressed and it's probably getting to
[20:49] people around me.
[20:51] What can I do about that?" So, first of
[20:53] all, if someone's saying that, half the
[20:54] battle is won. The problem is when
[20:56] people are not aware of that.
[20:58] Um but let's say you are. So, let's say
[21:00] that
[21:01] I give you that list of signs and
[21:03] symptoms that you've got high levels of
[21:05] cortisol, which include things like
[21:07] sleep disruption because cortisol's part
[21:09] of the 24-hour clock.
[21:10] Melatonin helps us to wake up. Cortisol
[21:12] helps
[21:14] Melatonin helps us to fall asleep.
[21:15] Cortisol helps us to wake up.
[21:17] Um maybe you've noticed the belly fat.
[21:20] Um because of the really strong
[21:22] connection between the brain and the
[21:23] gut, any sort of reflux or indigestion
[21:26] symptoms are often signs that you've got
[21:28] high levels of cortisol, too. And of
[21:30] course, things like irritability and
[21:31] mood changes.
[21:33] What I mostly would hear people say is
[21:34] that I can just about keep it together
[21:36] when I'm at work, but when I get home,
[21:38] if my kids are, you know, annoying or my
[21:41] partner's asking for too much, I just
[21:42] snap. So, that means you're like one
[21:45] step away from snapping at work if
[21:47] somebody like pushes you too far. So,
[21:49] that's not good. Because cortisol is
[21:51] pro-inflammatory, it's very drying of
[21:54] the system, as well. So, you might
[21:55] notice
[21:56] that your skin's really dry or you've
[21:57] got skin problems. Your skin isn't just
[22:00] the physical border of your body, it's
[22:02] the psychological boundary of your body,
[22:04] too. So, often stress shows up in the
[22:06] skin.
[22:08] Then
[22:09] there are two main things that you can
[22:11] do.
[22:13] One is physical exercise cuz you can
[22:15] literally sweat cortisol out of your
[22:16] body. So, you can sweat excel excess
[22:19] cortisol out of your body by doing
[22:21] aerobic exercise.
[22:23] Um the other one is journaling, so
[22:25] writing out what's on your mind rather
[22:27] than just let it be in there and keep
[22:29] going round and round.
[22:31] Or if you've got a therapist or a
[22:32] trusted friend, speaking it out loud.
[22:34] So, it's
[22:36] getting cortisol
[22:38] and or
[22:40] the negative thoughts that are
[22:41] associated with your stress out of your
[22:43] brain body system.
[22:45] I think this is fascinating. I looked at
[22:48] the back end of our YouTube channel, and
[22:50] it says that since this channel started,
[22:52] 69.9%
[22:54] of you that watch it frequently haven't
[22:56] yet hit the subscribe button. So, I have
[22:58] a favor to ask you. If you've ever
[23:00] watched this channel and enjoyed the
[23:01] content, if you're enjoying this episode
[23:02] right now, please can I ask a small
[23:04] favor? Please hit the subscribe button.
[23:05] Helps this channel more than I can
[23:06] explain and I promise if you do that to
[23:09] return the favor, we will make the show
[23:12] better and better and better and better
[23:14] and better. That's a promise I'm willing
[23:16] to make you if you hit the subscribe
[23:17] button. Do we have a deal?
[23:19] I've had a real revelation in my life
[23:20] over the last um
[23:22] hm
[23:23] maybe 6 months about sleep. Mhm. Again,
[23:27] it's why I said I think before we start
[23:28] recording that I don't have any meetings
[23:30] scheduled before 11:00 a.m. and I sleep
[23:32] with my eye mask on and I just wake up
[23:34] when I wake up.
[23:35] Yeah, me too. Oh, really?
[23:36] Yeah.
[23:37] I've never really met anybody that has
[23:39] that. It's It is a privilege. I have to
[23:40] acknowledge that that not everyone can
[23:42] do because of work circumstances or
[23:43] whatever else, but um the importance of
[23:46] sleep
[23:47] You're a neuroscientist.
[23:49] Yeah.
[23:50] Um there's a lot of people who have
[23:51] dysfunctional sleep. We live in a world
[23:52] where it's I feel like it's increasingly
[23:54] difficult to have
[23:56] you know, great sleep. Mhm. Um how
[23:59] important is that for the brain and also
[24:01] you know, you know, we were talking
[24:02] about stress there, but for Yeah.
[24:04] con- containing our stress levels?
[24:06] It's so important. I can't stop going on
[24:08] about it and I do understand that for
[24:11] some people it's not a choice that they
[24:12] just don't sleep well or they their
[24:14] sleep gets interrupted cuz they've got
[24:16] young kids
[24:17] or they do shift work. So,
[24:19] I'm not particularly talking about the
[24:22] people where
[24:23] there's a reason that you can't sleep in
[24:26] this way. I I'm mostly directing it this
[24:29] out if you have a choice,
[24:30] this is the way that you need to sleep
[24:32] and this is why. If you don't have a
[24:34] choice, there are some things that you
[24:35] can do to mitigate it as well. I mean,
[24:37] obviously I
[24:39] have done shift work as a junior doctor
[24:40] in the NHS and I travel a lot, so I'm
[24:42] like jet lagged half the time, Mhm. but
[24:45] I try to do everything I can
[24:47] to make that as as good as possible and
[24:50] the reason is
[24:51] we've always known that when you sleep,
[24:54] you lay down your memories and new
[24:56] learning, you process your emotions. The
[24:58] cells in the body regenerate themselves.
[25:00] We've We've known that for a long time.
[25:01] That's never really been enough for
[25:04] these very driven C level people to want
[25:08] to give up 8 hours a night to sleep, you
[25:10] know, it's
[25:11] if they feel they can get by on 4 or 5
[25:13] then they'll rather do that because
[25:14] they've got so much to do.
[25:16] The ideal is 8 hours and 15 minutes in
[25:18] population norm studies. So, that
[25:20] doesn't mean it's for everyone, but for
[25:22] most people that's the ideal. Actually,
[25:24] sleeping more than that can be
[25:25] depressogenic, so it can start to lower
[25:27] your mood. So, you don't want to really
[25:29] be sleeping for 9 plus hours, but you
[25:31] ideally need to be in bed for 9 hours to
[25:33] get that amount of sleep.
[25:36] And so, there was some
[25:38] award-winning research around 2012 to
[25:40] 2014 when we were beginning to
[25:42] understand how important the cleaning of
[25:45] the brain is overnight.
[25:47] So, this entirely new system that we
[25:48] didn't know existed, which is called the
[25:50] glymphatic system, it's like the
[25:52] lymphatic system in your body, but it's
[25:54] to do with glial cells, so it was named
[25:56] the glymphatic system.
[25:58] That system
[26:00] is a very active
[26:03] kind of waterway channel cleansing
[26:06] system of the brain. We used to think
[26:08] that the fluid around the brain and
[26:10] there's ventricles, which are like
[26:12] lakes, and then there's just like
[26:13] trickling areas that
[26:15] that sort of passively drip through the
[26:18] brain overnight.
[26:19] We did not expect to see like jets of
[26:22] fluid
[26:23] flushing out toxins from the brain.
[26:26] So, the exact things that we see in the
[26:28] pathology of dementing diseases, like
[26:30] Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, like tau
[26:32] proteins and amyloid plaques and
[26:35] neurofibrillary tangles.
[26:38] Um How do you say that in English?
[26:41] Those things are being
[26:43] flushed out of the brain very actively
[26:45] overnight. And that process takes 7 to 8
[26:48] hours to complete the cleaning.
[26:50] That's why you need to be in bed for 8
[26:52] to 9 hours.
[26:54] So, it takes 7 or 8 hours to of
[26:55] restorative sleep or just being in bed?
[26:58] Just sleep. Not in bed. If you're in bed
[27:00] awake,
[27:02] you're not asleep. You know, you have to
[27:03] be asleep, but you'll go through the
[27:04] different sleep cycles every 90 minutes.
[27:07] This isn't in time with that. This is
[27:09] just taking 7 or 8 hours to flush the
[27:11] stuff out of your brain. So, one of the
[27:12] things I do say to people who who don't
[27:14] sleep well is if you find yourself awake
[27:16] at night and you're not lying on your
[27:17] side, turn yourself onto your side cuz
[27:20] that's the best position for this
[27:21] cleansing process.
[27:23] I actually have a special pillow that
[27:24] makes me sleep on my side
[27:27] cuz I wasn't naturally a side sleeper.
[27:29] So, doesn't matter if it's the left or
[27:31] the right, but that is a better position
[27:33] in terms of the veins in your neck um
[27:36] than sleeping on your back or your
[27:37] front. So, that's one thing you can do.
[27:39] Oh, you woke up, you know, your sleep
[27:41] was disturbed, at least turn yourself
[27:42] onto your side.
[27:44] What is the special pillow?
[27:46] Just you just bragged about it then
[27:47] moved on, I feel like. It's it's a
[27:49] memory foam pillow. Am I allowed to
[27:51] mention the brand?
[27:52] yeah, yeah. We'll we'll make sure they
[27:53] sponsor it before we
[27:55] It's a memory foam pillow. This my one
[27:57] is by Tempur UK.
[27:59] Um
[27:59] and they actually they gifted it to me
[28:01] because I was talking about side
[28:03] sleeping. Yeah, it's great. Okay. I'm a
[28:05] side sleeper. My girlfriend's a back
[28:07] sleeper,
[28:08] but I can't sleep on my back. It's funny
[28:10] cuz I started on my front. That lasts
[28:12] for 15 minutes cuz I get bad back at the
[28:13] bottom of my back. I roll onto my side.
[28:16] But I I've always wondered if there was
[28:17] um
[28:18] when you look at tribes and our
[28:19] ancestors, how they would sleep. Would
[28:21] they sleep in groups? Would they sleep
[28:22] alone? Would they sleep on their side,
[28:23] their back?
[28:25] Do you know the answers to any of that?
[28:26] Um I know that co-sleeping is definitely
[28:28] how we evolved from co-sleeping, so in
[28:31] groups.
[28:32] And
[28:34] what was what I find interesting is that
[28:36] you needed to huddle together like that
[28:38] for physical warmth in the cave,
[28:40] but it also because of that proximity
[28:43] and and and interaction, you got more of
[28:46] the bonding hormone oxytocin, so you
[28:48] also experience the warmth of being part
[28:50] of a tribe. Um and I think they slept on
[28:53] their side because they would have to be
[28:55] ready for an attack
[28:57] from a predator, so you'd need to keep
[28:59] your dominant arm um
[29:01] ready to, you know, grab something. And
[29:04] most likely they slept on their left
[29:06] because they would have been protecting
[29:07] their most vital organs, the heart.
[29:09] Um
[29:10] Just thinking then about this bonding
[29:12] chemical and how it comes out when we're
[29:14] in close proximity. A lot of couples,
[29:16] lot of people, me sometimes as well,
[29:19] sleep in the spare room
[29:21] because
[29:22] I have work commitments, but that'll
[29:23] mean that I'm up early or my partner has
[29:25] work commitments that means she's up
[29:26] early, but even some of my friends who
[29:28] are in the early stages of parenthood
[29:31] Mhm. have separated and have a sleep
[29:34] divorce situation.
[29:36] When you talked about the bonding in the
[29:38] oxytocin being released when we're in
[29:40] closer proximity, and obviously at night
[29:41] time is when we're literally touching
[29:43] each other.
[29:44] Is it conceivable that by separating
[29:46] rooms and by doing a sleep divorce,
[29:48] we're actually eroding our bonding?
[29:51] I would never do it. You would never
[29:52] sleep in a different room from your
[29:53] partner?
[29:53] Never.
[29:54] Apart from maybe if there was a young
[29:56] baby and one person had to go to work
[29:59] and one person didn't.
[30:00] That I get,
[30:02] but that's temporary.
[30:04] And
[30:06] ideally people would find ways to make
[30:08] up for that. I mean, I guess you're in a
[30:09] bit of a love bubble with the oxytocin
[30:11] from the baby at that time, so that is
[30:13] quite neuroprotective.
[30:15] But
[30:17] co-sleeping is it's it's fundamental to
[30:20] our survival. It was physically when we
[30:23] were in the cave, but now I would say
[30:25] emotionally, spiritually, it's
[30:27] fundamental to our survival. I mean What
[30:29] do you mean by co-sleeping? Just to
[30:30] clarify.
[30:31] Sleeping together.
[30:32] So, mostly in, you know, in our society
[30:35] that's as a couple, but a lot of
[30:38] other cultures, the whole family sleeps
[30:40] together. Why would you never do it? You
[30:42] seemed quite passionate about that.
[30:44] Because I it's so good for you.
[30:47] The bonding, the physical warmth, the
[30:49] skin-to-skin contact, the
[30:52] love, the trust, you know. I mean, I'll
[30:53] put up if some if somebody's waking up
[30:55] early and I don't have to wake up at
[30:57] that time, I'll I'll even put up with
[30:58] that.
[31:00] So, you'll have less quality sleep. It
[31:02] won't be less quality sleep. I've worn
[31:04] HRV monitors and shown that even at the
[31:06] time
[31:08] if
[31:10] my husband woke up at 5:00 and I
[31:11] wouldn't wake up any at all before 8:00,
[31:14] and he gave me a kiss goodbye, I got a
[31:16] spike of resilience at that time.
[31:18] Resilience? Yeah.
[31:19] How How do you measure that? So, I was
[31:21] using that Finnish technology, um where
[31:24] you wear the
[31:25] HRV monitor with a gel pad on your
[31:27] chest. Um and so, it's color-coded for
[31:30] whether you're doing light exercise,
[31:33] heavy exercise, whether you're stressed,
[31:35] or whether you're recouping resilience.
[31:37] And mostly people recoup resilience
[31:39] overnight.
[31:40] But, um you know, you could clearly see
[31:43] with people with young children, you
[31:44] could see when they were woken up
[31:45] overnight cuz it would go into stress.
[31:47] Some people recoup resilience during the
[31:49] day
[31:50] if, you know, let's say you're like with
[31:52] your partner or your sibling and you're
[31:54] just sitting together and it's super
[31:55] relaxed. Or if you love your job, you
[31:57] know, that you can see that happening
[31:58] during the day as well.
[32:00] But, because I am so
[32:04] obsessed with my sleep,
[32:06] I wouldn't normally welcome any sleep
[32:08] disturbance.
[32:10] But, the power of sleeping together and
[32:12] cuddling all night
[32:15] is so neuroprotective
[32:17] that
[32:19] I would encourage everybody to do it if
[32:21] they can. I also know some people who
[32:22] say, "Oh, I sleep better if I sleep on
[32:24] my own."
[32:25] Um
[32:26] but we we're not meant to survive on our
[32:29] own. We are meant to survive as part of
[32:31] a tribe. And
[32:34] I think now, you know, since the
[32:36] pandemic,
[32:38] people are more lost and lonely and
[32:40] disconnected than ever. If you've got
[32:41] somebody that you can actually sleep
[32:43] with overnight, I strongly suggest that
[32:46] you do it.
[32:48] So, I want to go in that direction
[32:49] because I'm super compelled by that. The
[32:50] the change in the world and the lost,
[32:52] the lonely, the disconnected. But, just
[32:54] to pause for a second on this word
[32:55] resilience you're using linked to heart
[32:57] rate variability. You're You're talking
[32:59] about like a physiological resilience,
[33:01] like a the body being more resilient
[33:04] versus the kind of When we talk about
[33:05] resilience, we we we say it in more of a
[33:08] psychological context of like I can
[33:10] withstand
[33:12] greater stress or pressure. But, you're
[33:14] You used a heart rate variability
[33:16] monitor that measures the
[33:18] distance between heartbeats
[33:21] and saw that when your husband gave you
[33:22] a kiss, your heart rate variability
[33:25] increased,
[33:26] which means that your body was more
[33:28] physiologically resilient. It actually
[33:30] measures both because it compares your
[33:32] heart rate variability to your heart
[33:34] rate. Okay. So, it knows if you're
[33:36] exercising because your heart rate has
[33:37] gone up. But, if your heart rate is at
[33:40] like base level,
[33:42] then
[33:43] the So, the then then the very the
[33:45] change in variability can either mean
[33:46] that you're stressed or you're recouping
[33:48] resilience. If your heart rate is high,
[33:50] then it's obviously
[33:51] physical. Um
[33:53] but
[33:55] it
[33:56] it's a it's a factor of both. So, it's
[33:58] not just looking at
[34:01] physical resilience. It is looking When
[34:03] When it's in this turquoise zone,
[34:05] that is actually more about recouping
[34:07] psychological resilience. But, those two
[34:10] things, you know, they feed into each
[34:11] other, but it can tell the difference
[34:12] because of your heart rate. So,
[34:13] obviously I was asleep, so my heart rate
[34:15] was low. And you saw what on the monitor
[34:17] when he gave you a kiss?
[34:18] saw it, but cuz it can does it by every
[34:19] 15 minutes as well. And I saw the
[34:21] highest spike of turquoise at that exact
[34:24] time.
[34:26] It's funny cuz my girlfriend a couple
[34:28] about a month ago or 2 months ago, I
[34:30] left the house quite early in the
[34:31] morning, maybe about the similar time
[34:33] 6:00 a.m. in the morning when she was
[34:35] still in bed and I came up to her and
[34:37] gave her like a big kiss. I basically
[34:39] kissed all around her. This is so
[34:40] sloppy.
[34:41] I kissed all around her face and on her
[34:42] nose and just gave her a big big hug and
[34:44] stuff and I walked away, like got in the
[34:46] got in the got in the taxi and left,
[34:47] whatever.
[34:49] And she said to me the same day or the
[34:51] day after she went "I don't know what
[34:53] happened there, but it unlocked
[34:55] something in me." And
[34:56] you know, then my girlfriend went on to
[34:58] say she had um had some challenges with
[35:00] her menstrual cycle and it and she
[35:03] came on her period.
[35:05] That's amazing. I love that.
[35:07] right. Like when she says things to me
[35:09] and she knows this, but I give her a
[35:11] credit. I'm always skeptical cuz we
[35:13] think differently. She's quite
[35:14] spiritual. I'm very like I need some
[35:15] science.
[35:16] Mhm. And um
[35:18] she said that to me and I just thought a
[35:20] kiss and a hug in the morning it hasn't
[35:21] couldn't have had any physiological
[35:22] impact on her.
[35:24] But um now I'm starting to question
[35:27] whether once again I was wrong.
[35:31] That's amazing. I mean, you know,
[35:33] some of these things can't necessarily
[35:35] immediately be explained by science, but
[35:38] if you use your intuition, then
[35:40] you have to ask yourself and I feel like
[35:42] you are coming around to thinking that
[35:43] could be true. When I'm when I'm given a
[35:45] reason, I accept things. If you know, if
[35:48] there's even
[35:49] even a slither of science that could
[35:51] justify it, then I I come around to
[35:53] ideas, but I do need the science. Do you
[35:55] think that men and women are different
[35:56] in terms of their intuition and their
[35:59] their ability to want you to smile.
[36:00] Their ability to kind of understand some
[36:02] of these forces that exist in the air.
[36:06] Because my girlfriend it seems to be so
[36:07] attuned to feelings and intuition and
[36:11] and I'm less so.
[36:13] Yeah, so if let's let's put it like
[36:15] this. If you had a hundred people in a
[36:17] room, 50 men and 50 women,
[36:19] and you asked them to line up in order
[36:21] of height,
[36:22] not all the men would be taller than all
[36:24] the women. In the middle there'd be a
[36:25] bit of a mixture.
[36:27] And it's like that with the brain and
[36:28] intuition and everything else. So,
[36:31] yeah, there are
[36:32] some
[36:34] there's some disparity. So, I think most
[36:36] people would agree that it feels like
[36:38] more women are in touch with their
[36:39] intuition than men, but it's absolutely
[36:41] not all women
[36:43] versus all men.
[36:45] Do you believe women are more in touch
[36:46] with their intuition?
[36:47] I think they're more open to accepting
[36:49] that it's a thing. And
[36:52] I believe that the more men need the
[36:54] science to explain how intuition works.
[36:57] Interesting. I wondered if there was
[36:58] like a brain
[37:00] neurological reason for that.
[37:02] I think there'd be more women and men
[37:03] that believed in
[37:05] intuition and those like
[37:07] feelings that are hard to explain and
[37:08] the you know.
[37:09] That's changed a lot. I mean, I remember
[37:11] when I was teaching at MIT about 7 years
[37:13] ago and I was teaching the science of
[37:15] intuition. Someone actually stood that
[37:17] you know, it's all senior leaders in the
[37:18] classroom. It's executive education.
[37:21] Um someone stood up and said, "Well, I'm
[37:23] not going to make a really important
[37:24] decision like hire or fire based on my
[37:27] gut feeling, am I?"
[37:29] And
[37:30] he was quite young and quite a few of
[37:31] the older guys turned around and were
[37:32] like, "That's absolutely how I would
[37:34] make my decision and my most important
[37:36] decisions." But at that time, it was
[37:39] still kind of like
[37:41] not everybody was really sure that
[37:42] that's like your superpower, but I think
[37:44] people are beginning to understand more
[37:46] that with age and experience and wisdom,
[37:49] you do understand that intuition is
[37:51] actually your strongest should be your
[37:54] strongest decision-making modality. What
[37:57] is intuition?
[37:59] So,
[38:00] because you can't remember everything
[38:01] that you've experienced in your whole
[38:03] life,
[38:04] but you know, somewhere in the neural
[38:06] architecture and and you know,
[38:09] in the gut neurons as well,
[38:11] that information is stored cuz you have
[38:13] experienced it.
[38:14] So,
[38:15] maybe you would say that you understand
[38:17] that wisdom and experience is the
[38:19] product of patterns that you've seen
[38:21] repeating in your life that are
[38:22] conscious to you.
[38:24] Intuition is
[38:26] the lessons that you picked up along the
[38:27] way that you're not conscious of, but
[38:29] they're still stored in your nervous
[38:31] system.
[38:33] And so, the less conscious you are of
[38:36] them, the deeper they're pushed into the
[38:38] nervous system. So, there's a process
[38:41] called Hebbian learning, named after the
[38:43] neuroscientist Donald Hebb,
[38:46] and that is
[38:48] is basically, you know, neurons that
[38:49] fire together wire together, but it's
[38:50] that the things that you've learned
[38:52] today, like things that you've learned
[38:54] by speaking with me, that's going to be
[38:56] very front of mind and kind of just in
[38:58] like little pathways that are just kind
[39:00] of connecting up with each other. But
[39:02] stuff that you learned when you were
[39:03] five, like when you put your hand in a
[39:06] fire and it burnt you and you never ever
[39:08] want to do that again, that's deep down.
[39:10] You're not really conscious of that, but
[39:12] you know, and and other things maybe
[39:13] that you don't recall.
[39:15] So, we believe that your
[39:18] that wisdom
[39:19] gets pushed from the outer cortex
[39:24] into the limbic system, which is the
[39:26] emotional system of the brain, into the
[39:28] brainstem, into the spinal cord,
[39:31] and into the gut neurons.
[39:32] And that's why they sometimes call it
[39:34] gut instinct because it's that feeling
[39:36] of knowing something but not knowing why
[39:37] you know it.
[39:38] Um but it's actually to do with the fact
[39:40] that you have wisdom and experience
[39:43] that is
[39:45] it's in it's it's embodied in you,
[39:47] but you're not conscious of it
[39:48] necessarily.
[39:50] It's quite surprising to hear that
[39:52] those memories, that wisdom could be
[39:55] in the gut.
[39:56] People think of
[39:58] you know, I think I'm certainly someone
[39:59] who always thought that my cognition, my
[40:01] memories, and my all of the intelligence
[40:04] exists just in my brain.
[40:07] Your memories and your cognition
[40:09] and your IQ
[40:12] are in your brain,
[40:14] but your Your
[40:15] is in your brain and your gut.
[40:19] This sounds super stupid, but I don't
[40:21] care. I should just be I should just be
[40:22] honest about my stupidity.
[40:24] Where in my gut? I'm like
[40:26] I thought that was like my stomach.
[40:28] It's where I put the food.
[40:29] Yeah. So, you know, you've got your
[40:31] stomach, you've got your small
[40:32] intestine, you've got your large
[40:33] intestine. You have other organs, your
[40:35] liver, your spleen,
[40:37] your kidneys. And they're all
[40:39] innervated, which means they've all got
[40:40] nerves going into them. So does your
[40:42] heart.
[40:43] So, you know, we could we could have a
[40:44] similar conversation like this about
[40:46] your heart as well, because your heart
[40:48] only knows how to be because of the
[40:50] nerves that that penetrate it.
[40:52] So,
[40:53] you know, this round brain in here in
[40:55] the spinal cord that goes down the
[40:57] center of your back, that gives rise to
[40:59] all of the neurons that go out to your
[41:01] arms, your legs, all of your organs,
[41:03] your skin, which is your largest organ.
[41:06] And
[41:08] so that's that's how that works because
[41:10] every single part of your body has nerve
[41:14] nerve cells or, you know, nerve
[41:17] pathways in them. So, that's the
[41:18] connection.
[41:19] That's brings us back to what, you know,
[41:21] what what I was saying about the
[41:22] brain-body connection. They're they're
[41:24] intimately connected and it's a
[41:26] bidirectional thing. It's they can't
[41:28] exist without each other.
[41:31] And the more you understand that there's
[41:33] that constant feedback going back and
[41:34] forth, the more you can tap into that
[41:37] kind of thing. The more you can
[41:39] know days before you're going to get
[41:40] sick. I bet your girlfriend knows days
[41:42] before she's going to get a cold or flu.
[41:44] Yes, she does.
[41:45] Yeah. All the time. And my clients
[41:48] never know. And as soon as they go on
[41:50] holiday, they're sick the whole week.
[41:53] Why Why when they go on holiday?
[41:55] Because they suppress it to be able to
[41:57] do their job.
[41:58] And you can suppress illness or you can
[42:00] just not not not acknowledge it.
[42:01] It's not it's it's not necessarily that
[42:03] they had a cold virus that they
[42:05] suppressed, but it's that their body is,
[42:07] you know, the immune system is being run
[42:09] down by the cortisol. And so as soon as
[42:11] it gets a break,
[42:13] that's when it kind of succumbs. Um
[42:16] and there was a time after the financial
[42:18] crisis when
[42:20] I had people saying, "I've had the you
[42:22] know, I've had this cold for like 4
[42:23] weeks now or 6 weeks, but everybody's
[42:26] got it." And I was like,
[42:29] "I'm sorry, but do you actually think
[42:30] that's normal? Do you think it's normal
[42:32] to have a cold for more than a week?"
[42:34] And you know, then it it's takes a
[42:37] challenge like that because also the
[42:39] other thing that happens in you know,
[42:40] with group think whether it's at work or
[42:42] in your social circle is
[42:44] that we don't challenge each other
[42:45] enough on those sort of things. So,
[42:47] if a friend said, "Oh, I've had this
[42:48] cold for 6 weeks."
[42:50] I might say, "Oh, poor you." But
[42:53] if I I wouldn't, but someone might. But
[42:56] um
[42:57] you know, it's also about saying, "Is
[42:59] there something else wrong?" cuz that's
[43:00] not that's not usual. Um and for me,
[43:03] that would absolutely lead back to
[43:04] cortisol.
[43:06] Second ago, we were going to go down the
[43:07] pathway of the looming crisis
[43:10] that you speak about.
[43:11] What is the looming crisis that you're
[43:14] concerned about?
[43:15] Stephen, I
[43:17] I saw this looming at the beginning of
[43:18] the pandemic. It's not looming anymore.
[43:21] It is We are in crisis.
[43:23] So,
[43:24] you know, all of the
[43:26] health anxiety and the uncertainty and
[43:28] the fear
[43:29] and the loss that we experienced
[43:32] um during the pandemic
[43:34] was bad enough, you know, it caused a a
[43:36] level of stress that no one who's alive
[43:38] today has experienced before.
[43:40] Um
[43:42] but we've come out of it,
[43:44] you know, we're relatively
[43:47] I don't know if I could say back to
[43:48] normal or in the new normal.
[43:51] And we have not paid any attention to
[43:54] the consequences of what happened to us.
[43:57] And when I say us, I mean everyone from
[44:00] the babies that were born at that time
[44:01] that never saw anyone but their
[44:02] immediate family,
[44:04] the teenagers that interestingly boys
[44:06] did better than girls because they play
[44:08] video games on the internet, so they
[44:10] stayed connected.
[44:11] You know, the older people, the isolated
[44:14] the people that like lost loved ones,
[44:15] etc. Like there's so many things. I
[44:17] could say more things than that.
[44:19] We we haven't really acknowledged that
[44:22] that's what happened and what we went
[44:24] through.
[44:25] We
[44:27] most people are not really
[44:30] understanding what's changed for them or
[44:32] what's going on for them at the moment
[44:33] as a result of that and we certainly
[44:35] haven't made any plan for the future.
[44:38] Um
[44:39] you know, I'm really into like
[44:41] indigenous wisdom at the moment and one
[44:43] of the things I've learned about the
[44:44] first Americans is that when they make a
[44:46] big decision for their community, they
[44:48] imagine the impact of that decision
[44:50] seven generations into the future. We
[44:53] don't even think about one generation
[44:55] into the future.
[44:59] We just think about
[45:00] like what's going on right now. We We We
[45:03] don't even really think about our own
[45:04] future like some of the time.
[45:07] I remember thinking like literally in
[45:09] March of 2020,
[45:10] this is going to be a mental health
[45:12] crisis. Like whatever happens
[45:13] physically,
[45:15] and as time went on, more so I thought,
[45:18] mental health crisis, mental health
[45:19] crisis.
[45:21] And then I started to think, okay,
[45:25] what else could it be?
[45:27] And
[45:28] I had time, of course, to
[45:31] indulge in some of the other areas of
[45:32] interest that I couldn't when I was like
[45:34] traveling and working for Lonza. So I
[45:35] you know, started reading more about
[45:37] spirituality and ancient cultures and
[45:39] stuff.
[45:40] And I thought this could be a spiritual
[45:42] revolution. When you say spiritual
[45:44] revolution,
[45:46] it's a very big, broad
[45:48] term. Mhm.
[45:50] What do you mean?
[45:52] If I look back and and you've you know,
[45:54] you've led a very nice story of of my my
[45:57] journey since I changed career is that
[45:59] it started off with that physical piece,
[46:01] you know, for me where I was working,
[46:02] there was stress, but people were having
[46:04] heart attacks.
[46:06] Then, I spent many years working on
[46:07] mental resilience with people.
[46:10] Um
[46:12] and emotional regulation was part of
[46:13] that, and that became important again in
[46:15] the pandemic because we were in like
[46:17] close quarters with people and
[46:19] you know, and it was just very
[46:20] different, and it was hard, and there
[46:21] was homeschooling and working and
[46:23] everything.
[46:25] Um what I've seen as a some of the good
[46:27] things I've seen as a result of the
[46:28] pandemic is that we've definitely
[46:30] appreciated again the importance of our
[46:32] time in nature.
[46:34] Um so, I think most of us felt that,
[46:36] that, you know, being able to get out
[46:38] and be somewhere green was really
[46:39] important. And because there was like no
[46:43] planes and no traffic, you know, we
[46:44] could see the stars in the sky again. We
[46:46] saw amazing sunsets. We people began to
[46:48] appreciate birdsong.
[46:50] And now the studies are showing that
[46:53] time spent in nature actually has a
[46:55] really positive impact on your physical
[46:57] health, your mental health, and your
[46:59] longevity.
[47:00] So, you know, that's one good thing
[47:02] that's come out of it, but
[47:04] are we all still, you know, making time
[47:06] for that, or are we just going back to
[47:07] kind of our old ways? The other thing
[47:10] things of interest that have come out is
[47:11] that having a purpose that transcends
[47:13] yourself
[47:14] is really important
[47:16] to your
[47:18] um mental health particularly, but it
[47:20] will have knock-on effects. So,
[47:22] you know, you could say
[47:25] well, I do my podcast, and I love doing
[47:26] my podcast, and I get to meet
[47:27] interesting people, and I you know, I
[47:30] share that knowledge with others.
[47:32] A lot of that is still to do with
[47:34] self-satisfaction.
[47:36] So, having something that doesn't
[47:38] necessarily do anything for you,
[47:40] but gives you purpose in life is really
[47:43] important. And what could that be? That
[47:45] could be
[47:47] That could be volunteering. It could be
[47:50] um
[47:53] you know, for you know, for me, like I I
[47:54] give out a lot of free information on
[47:56] Instagram that and and not for to try to
[47:59] get work or anything like that.
[48:01] Um
[48:02] it could be so, you know, when I say
[48:04] volunteering that sounds quite big, but
[48:05] it could be like asking your elderly
[48:07] neighbor if you can do their groceries
[48:09] for them when you go to the supermarket.
[48:12] Um it could be
[48:13] calling up a friend and checking that
[48:15] they're okay.
[48:16] Just something that makes you feel like
[48:18] life is worth living.
[48:21] But it doesn't necessarily earn you
[48:22] money or directly improve your life.
[48:25] I've spoken to a lot of therapists who
[48:26] talk about
[48:28] the fact that we two of the things we
[48:30] never want to feel is like we're A
[48:31] different and B we're not enough.
[48:34] And I was thinking about that through
[48:35] the lens of our tribes. In a In the
[48:37] context of a tribe, if I was different,
[48:39] there was a risk of me being kicked off
[48:40] the tribe. And if I would didn't feel
[48:42] like I was enough, I I
[48:43] again would have a risk of being kicked
[48:45] out of the tribe because I'm not
[48:46] valuable to the tribe. And in the
[48:47] context of what you were saying about
[48:49] serving others, is that again sort of
[48:50] like a prehistoric desire to
[48:53] um feel like we're adding value and we
[48:56] are of use to the tribe by serving
[48:58] the greater good of the of our tribe. Is
[49:01] that where that instinct comes from in
[49:02] us? I love what you've done, which is
[49:03] exactly what I said, which is when I
[49:05] when I'm not sure of the answer, I'll go
[49:07] back to evolution. Mhm. I always do that
[49:09] in therapy, yeah. I love that. I think
[49:11] I hadn't thought of it like that exactly
[49:13] like that before, but I think it's true.
[49:14] You know, a tribe sadly could not afford
[49:16] to carry dead weight.
[49:18] So, if you weren't enough, you know, if
[49:20] you were injured, if you were
[49:23] immobile, if you were elderly,
[49:25] if you weren't contributing,
[49:27] then you might get left behind.
[49:29] And then there's this um really
[49:31] interesting new area of research called
[49:33] neuroaesthetics or neuroarts,
[49:35] which is about having some kind of
[49:37] creative activity in your regular
[49:39] schedule.
[49:41] So, um there's there's lots of research
[49:43] that shows that if you're not doing
[49:45] something creative once a week,
[49:47] and that could be dance, music,
[49:50] painting, drawing, going to the theater,
[49:52] reading a novel. So, really quite broad.
[49:54] Time in nature actually is included in
[49:56] it.
[49:57] Then, because nature is the palette that
[49:59] we all love. You know, you could have
[50:01] different taste in art or music to me,
[50:05] but all humans love nature cuz we've
[50:06] always been in that that beauty. So, the
[50:09] impact of that on your mental health and
[50:11] your physical health and your longevity
[50:12] is huge as well.
[50:14] But, even just like every morning, I
[50:16] actually thought of this this morning
[50:17] cuz I I wanted to mention this, but I
[50:20] had zested a lemon last night when I was
[50:22] cooking.
[50:23] And so, this morning when I went to get
[50:24] the milk out of the fridge, I I smelled
[50:26] it cuz it was in the fridge and I just
[50:27] thought that is so beautiful.
[50:30] And so, they say things like, you know,
[50:32] if you've put like
[50:34] a bunch of flowers on your bedside table
[50:36] and it smells nice and that's the first
[50:37] thing you smell in the morning and then
[50:38] you like look at the beautiful flowers.
[50:40] If you've
[50:41] got objects of beauty in your house, if
[50:43] you listen to birdsong in the morning,
[50:45] that that's all neuroesthetics. It's
[50:46] living a life that is aesthetically
[50:50] pleasing to your brain.
[50:51] And that's good for your health. Why?
[50:54] Um
[50:57] Should we go back to evolution? Should I
[50:59] make a guess with Please, that's my
[51:01] favorite thing to do.
[51:03] I think it's to do with safety. So,
[51:06] if you were able to spare your mental
[51:08] resources to appreciate beauty,
[51:11] that must mean that you're safe. That
[51:13] must mean that you're not just trying to
[51:14] survive.
[51:15] So, it's actually
[51:17] I mean, we do appreciate beauty. So,
[51:20] seeing, smelling, you know, hearing,
[51:21] tasting nice things, it's going to make
[51:23] us feel better. But, also,
[51:26] we're only going to be doing that if
[51:29] we have the luxury of being able to do
[51:31] that. Then, it can be such small things.
[51:33] But, also, what it signals to your brain
[51:35] is I'm safe
[51:37] because I have time to read a novel or
[51:41] I have time to crank the music up and
[51:44] dance around my living room.
[51:45] Through the frame of this idea that
[51:48] pathways that fire together wire
[51:50] together,
[51:52] I was also thinking about every time
[51:53] I've seen a tree, I've been safe. So, is
[51:56] there an association that trees are
[51:58] safety? You know what I mean? Every time
[51:59] I've been out in nature, I've been
[52:01] physiologically, psychologically safe.
[52:03] So, is it now the case that because
[52:04] there's that neurological association,
[52:06] the pathways have widened fired
[52:08] together, if I, you know, do you talk
[52:09] about the brain-body response, if I put
[52:11] myself in that situation again, it will
[52:13] signal to my body that I'm safe. Yeah,
[52:15] it will that's neuroplasticity. It's the
[52:17] It's repeating that and giving yourself
[52:19] the message that every time I'm around
[52:21] trees, I'm safe. I feel safe. It won't
[52:24] be the same for everyone. I would
[52:25] imagine that again, when we lived in the
[52:27] cave, that
[52:30] we naturally did things like looked at
[52:32] the stars in the sky at night, danced
[52:34] around the fire, did cave paintings.
[52:37] Um so, that's very wired into our our
[52:40] psyche as well. Um
[52:42] you know, they would adorn themselves a
[52:44] lot more than we do.
[52:46] So, that appreciation of aesthetics
[52:49] has always been there not and not just
[52:51] from nature, from some of our rituals
[52:53] and ceremonies as well. And really the
[52:56] conclusion that I've come to with this
[52:58] whole spiritual crisis and and then the
[53:00] potential revolution is that
[53:03] all the things that we need
[53:06] to go through that revolution have
[53:08] always been in the world as long as
[53:10] we've existed.
[53:12] And that to me is beautiful because
[53:15] it's not like we have to do some crazy
[53:17] new different things that we've never
[53:19] thought of before.
[53:20] We can
[53:23] The way that I put it is we know about
[53:26] generational trauma and
[53:28] intergenerational trauma and epigenetics
[53:30] and how all these bad things can like
[53:32] come down the line, but there's also a
[53:34] lot of beauty and wisdom that's there
[53:38] that we can have access to. It's it's
[53:41] don't have to like reinvent the wheel at
[53:43] all. We can just go back to doing the
[53:45] things that we did
[53:47] when
[53:48] we were at peace.
[53:50] It's interesting, but it but that's not
[53:52] going to that's not easy to do in the
[53:54] world we live in cuz we've built a
[53:55] society in a world where
[53:56] Yeah.
[53:58] We live in these like white four white
[54:00] walls in cities alone. We're more lonely
[54:02] than ever before. We order our food
[54:04] using glass screens. We use pornography
[54:08] as a replacement for intimacy and and
[54:11] connection.
[54:12] We use social networks instead of
[54:14] socializing.
[54:15] Internet connection has reduced real
[54:17] connection.
[54:19] How you'd have to like completely
[54:21] redesign society, it seems.
[54:23] You can start with yourself.
[54:27] So,
[54:29] I completely agree with what all those
[54:31] things that you've just said. It's how
[54:32] most people live.
[54:33] But I don't live like that.
[54:36] How do you live, doctor?
[54:39] Um
[54:40] I I actively try to spend as much time
[54:42] in nature as I can, and I have like
[54:45] a lot of like plants and flowers in and
[54:48] around my house.
[54:50] I am very very careful about who's in my
[54:53] tribe. So, it's positive, meaningful,
[54:58] deep, spiritual relationships.
[55:02] Um
[55:04] I
[55:08] don't use pornography or dating apps.
[55:12] I just go through your legs.
[55:15] Um
[55:17] Yeah, and I you know, I try What do you
[55:18] think of pornography on the brain?
[55:21] I mean,
[55:23] the two most basic drives in the brain
[55:25] are sex and food.
[55:26] So,
[55:27] the potential impact is is huge.
[55:31] Um
[55:32] I agree with you that increasingly it
[55:34] has created a big disconnect between men
[55:37] and women in real life, which is really
[55:39] sad.
[55:42] What What is that disconnect?
[55:44] Um I think that
[55:47] the ideal of what a woman has to be or
[55:50] can be is very distorted by pornography.
[55:53] Mhm.
[55:54] Um
[55:56] I think, if I put together, you know,
[55:59] what I hear from my friends about dating
[56:01] apps with that, that
[56:02] the way that people feel they can treat
[56:04] others has really, really changed. And I
[56:06] think this has accelerated since the
[56:07] pandemic as well.
[56:09] Um
[56:10] so this real lack of empathy for
[56:14] the consequences of your actions and
[56:15] comments on other people.
[56:17] And I think pornography contributes to
[56:20] that because it
[56:21] changes the way that men view women. Um
[56:26] I think the impact on women in terms of
[56:28] what you have to look like, like how
[56:29] much plastic surgery you have to have,
[56:31] what you've got to be prepared to, like,
[56:33] do in an intimate relationship, or or
[56:35] actually
[56:36] the biggest issue I would have is what
[56:38] you're expected to do when you're not
[56:40] even in an intimate relationship, you
[56:41] know, just when it becomes more of a
[56:43] transaction, when the rules have changed
[56:46] about
[56:47] you know, again, what I hear now very
[56:49] commonly is oh, we've been on three or
[56:51] four or five dates or whatever it is,
[56:53] that must mean,
[56:55] you know,
[56:56] move to the next level kind of thing.
[56:58] So, I think that going back to
[57:01] having like really respectful
[57:03] relationships, having a lot of empathy
[57:05] for other people, looking out for the
[57:08] people in your life that might be
[57:09] lonelier than you.
[57:11] Um
[57:13] when I say, you know, I I mean, I
[57:14] absolutely do not have my phone in my
[57:16] bedroom, but when I say limit screen
[57:18] time, that is a difficult one because we
[57:20] all use our screens for work and to
[57:22] communicate with our friends, but there
[57:25] are studies that show the amount of time
[57:26] you spend
[57:28] even communicating with friends online
[57:31] versus face-to-face has all sorts of
[57:33] impacts in terms of like
[57:36] how
[57:37] like socially comfortable you are, how
[57:40] empathetic you are. It can even have on
[57:43] teenagers a really big impact on body
[57:46] dysmorphism.
[57:47] So, it's fine to actually spend quite a
[57:49] lot of time online as long as you are
[57:51] also spending a lot of time with people
[57:53] face-to-face.
[57:55] One of the things you said there was
[57:56] about limiting who's in your tribe. Mhm.
[57:59] W-
[57:59] Why is that important?
[58:02] Why is it important to not hang around
[58:04] with certain people and spend more time
[58:06] with other people from like a
[58:08] neurological perspective in terms of our
[58:10] health and our outlooks and our outcomes
[58:11] and neuroplasticity?
[58:13] So, if we just like link this back a
[58:15] little bit to the question that you
[58:16] Googled, which is is stress contagious,
[58:19] then there's another rabbit hole you
[58:21] could go down, which would be about
[58:23] social contagion.
[58:25] So, there are statistics that show that
[58:27] in your social group, if someone gets
[58:30] divorced, you're more likely to get
[58:31] divorced in the next year.
[58:33] If someone in your social group is
[58:35] obese, you're more likely to become
[58:37] obese.
[58:38] Now, I'm not absolutely not saying don't
[58:40] be friends with someone cuz they got
[58:41] divorced or they put on weight, but I'm
[58:43] I'm talking more about the
[58:46] attitudinal stuff.
[58:48] So, the
[58:51] you know, how you treat other people,
[58:52] how kind you are, how generous you are,
[58:55] how open you are to conversations about
[58:56] intuition or spirituality. Basically,
[58:59] you meet people who are at a similar
[59:01] psychological level to you.
[59:03] And
[59:04] so,
[59:06] we're always working on ourselves,
[59:08] hopefully, and you want to be with
[59:10] people if if you are, then you want to
[59:12] be with people who are growing, too, who
[59:13] are open to challenge, who are learning,
[59:15] who
[59:16] are interested in exploring
[59:17] spirituality,
[59:19] um who care about their mental health
[59:21] and other people's mental health. So,
[59:23] it's really
[59:24] about, you know, having this this circle
[59:26] of trust.
[59:28] And knowing that you've got support, but
[59:31] equally that if you do something that's
[59:33] really not okay, that somebody's going
[59:34] to tell you.
[59:36] You mentioned the word earlier
[59:37] neuroplasticity.
[59:41] What is it? Why did it matter and
[59:44] I think from looking at your work
[59:45] previously, you had a bit of an epiphany
[59:47] on this subject matter in your career.
[59:49] Where you realized that, you know, I you
[59:50] probably like most most people don't
[59:52] even think it's a thing. They don't
[59:53] think it's
[59:55] They think that once you grow up, you're
[59:57] set in your ways, but it sounds like
[59:59] there was an epiphany at some point in
[60:00] your career where you realize the
[60:01] importance and the possibilities that
[60:03] neuroplasticity presented. Well, we have
[60:05] to start by saying that when I was at
[60:06] medical school and doing my PhD in
[60:08] neuroscience, we did not know about
[60:10] neuroplasticity.
[60:11] So, we absolutely thought that when you
[60:14] physically stopped growing,
[60:16] that everything in your brain was set
[60:18] for the rest of your life. That you
[60:19] couldn't change your intelligence, you
[60:21] couldn't learn to manage your emotions
[60:23] differently.
[60:24] Um that it would be much harder to learn
[60:26] new things.
[60:28] What we know now is that the brain is
[60:30] actively growing and changing till we're
[60:32] about 25.
[60:34] Oh,
[60:35] I missed it.
[60:37] No, you didn't you didn't miss it. You
[60:39] didn't miss it.
[60:39] I know I look 24, but
[60:41] You didn't you didn't miss it. So, from
[60:42] 25 to 65 and I would say even beyond
[60:45] now,
[60:47] if you don't do anything to change your
[60:48] brain, it will tend to plateau. So, you
[60:50] know, if you're in a job where you do
[60:51] the same thing every day and you're
[60:52] pretty good at it,
[60:54] you could stay like that for the rest of
[60:55] your life. And that is fine for some
[60:57] people.
[60:59] If you do things to that are intense
[61:01] enough
[61:03] to force your brain to change, then you
[61:06] can basically, you know, learn lots of
[61:08] new things, but also get what we call
[61:10] global benefits in your brain. So,
[61:12] let's say you decided to learn a new
[61:14] language.
[61:15] Maybe you'd learn Portuguese or French.
[61:17] Have you spoken to her?
[61:20] Have you spoken to her? No.
[61:23] That just felt very feels like you know
[61:26] when someone says something to you and
[61:27] it feels like they've already had a
[61:28] conversation behind your back cuz it's
[61:29] so
[61:30] on the money. No, I actually have a deal
[61:31] with her this year that I'd learn
[61:33] Portuguese by the end of the year and
[61:34] we're in September now. And I know six
[61:37] words. So, that just felt a little bit
[61:39] close to home. So,
[61:41] let's move on. So, so that's great. So,
[61:43] you have actually a reason to learn one
[61:45] or two languages. If you do that
[61:49] your brain will not only get the
[61:51] benefits of being able to speak French
[61:53] or Portuguese, but you will actually
[61:55] improve your executive functions. Now,
[61:57] these are the highest functions of the
[61:58] brain. Things like um being able to
[62:03] regulate your emotions better, solve
[62:05] complex problems, think flexibly, think
[62:07] creatively, override any conscious or
[62:10] unconscious biases that you may have.
[62:13] These are great benefits to get from
[62:14] actually just doing something like
[62:15] learning a language or a musical
[62:17] instrument. Um and it can be smaller
[62:20] things like
[62:21] travel, interacting with people who've
[62:23] had a different life to you, cooking
[62:25] something new, taking a different route
[62:27] to work, reading a
[62:29] newspaper or a magazine that's very
[62:30] different to what you normally read.
[62:32] Doing a podcast. Well, you do this every
[62:35] day. Yeah, exactly.
[62:36] Yeah, so it's not inducing
[62:37] neuroplasticity in your brain. Although
[62:39] you're learning new things.
[62:40] people.
[62:40] Yeah, you're meeting different people.
[62:41] You're learning new things.
[62:43] But it's probably not what we would call
[62:45] attention intense enough
[62:48] to actually be shifting pathways in your
[62:50] brain.
[62:51] Wow.
[62:52] So, having all these conversations isn't
[62:54] like expanding my It is in terms of your
[62:57] like the facts that you're learning.
[62:58] Yeah. But your actual process of you
[63:01] know, finding a person, doing a bit of
[63:03] research into them, meeting them, having
[63:05] a conversation with them, being good at
[63:07] asking them certain questions.
[63:10] That's a very natural pathway for you.
[63:12] So,
[63:13] you you know, you're getting better and
[63:15] and at it. But that's not a new big
[63:19] change in your brain.
[63:21] So what Okay, right. So I think when
[63:23] people hear about neuroplasticity, when
[63:25] I first heard about that that it was
[63:27] even a thing, it was a revelation that
[63:28] we could do things to change our brains.
[63:31] What is What is it that people typically
[63:33] want from neuroplasticity? They want to
[63:34] be someone else in other ways. They want
[63:36] new habits. They want new ways of
[63:38] thinking. They want to stop being a
[63:39] negative thinker or an overthinker in
[63:41] certain situations.
[63:43] If I wanted to to to stop being an
[63:45] overthinker or a negative thinker,
[63:47] or if I wanted to um
[63:51] you know, there's certain habits we all
[63:52] have in that I have in my life that I'm
[63:53] like
[63:54] I just feel like it's me now.
[63:57] Yeah, like procrastination.
[63:59] Procrastination shows up sometimes.
[64:01] I'm just saying that because I'm not
[64:03] learning this.
[64:03] to. I'm joking.
[64:04] No, I don't I don't procrastinate too
[64:06] much cuz I don't really have a choice
[64:07] these days. I procrastinate on some
[64:09] things. I think we all do. Things that I
[64:10] find
[64:11] yeah, we all do. Um No, I'm really glad
[64:13] you've taken this into the intention
[64:14] people cuz obviously I use
[64:16] the analogy of language as a great one
[64:18] to help people understand that you
[64:20] you learn something new, it builds up
[64:22] that pathway in your brain, it shifts
[64:23] your brain around, it has other
[64:24] benefits. But what people are really
[64:26] looking for is changing habits and
[64:29] behaviors that are not serving them in
[64:30] life. Yeah. So whether it's lack of
[64:33] motivation
[64:34] Yeah, lack of motivation, overthinker,
[64:36] negative thinker,
[64:38] lose your lose your temper, um
[64:42] uh you know, sort of feel very stuck.
[64:47] People pleasing, you know, like so many
[64:48] things.
[64:49] Mood, reactions, and reactivities.
[64:52] So the process for that, which is
[64:54] underpinned by neuroplasticity, like the
[64:56] physiology of what happens in the brain,
[64:58] is raised awareness. So let's say that
[65:01] you've, you know, you've had a
[65:03] relationship breakup again for the
[65:05] similar reasons and, you know, whatever
[65:06] happened before.
[65:08] So then you get to a point you're like,
[65:09] "Okay,
[65:10] last time I just kind of
[65:12] didn't really deal with that and just
[65:13] moved on to the next relationship. Now
[65:15] I'm beginning to see there's a pattern.
[65:17] I think I need to do something
[65:18] different. Step one is spot the pattern.
[65:20] And step one is 50% of the battle.
[65:24] So, you know, once you know, okay, this
[65:26] is a thing that I think or I believe or
[65:28] I do
[65:30] that comes out with a result that I
[65:31] don't want. That is half the battle. So,
[65:33] once you've done that,
[65:35] you don't try to change anything
[65:36] straight away. The next stage is called
[65:38] focused attention.
[65:40] So, you look around in your life, at
[65:41] work, in your personal life, in like,
[65:44] you know, sports, if you play sports,
[65:47] um with different types of people, and
[65:49] through your past, where are the times
[65:52] I've done that? What what what triggers
[65:54] me into doing that or what pushes me
[65:55] into doing that? Let me give you an
[65:57] example Mhm. so we can work through this
[66:00] these steps with an example. Got a
[66:01] friend in my life that repeatedly
[66:05] dates people who are married or in a
[66:07] relationship.
[66:08] Oh.
[66:09] And ends how you'd expect it to end, in
[66:12] her heartbreak. Yeah. But it's this
[66:13] spiral she's on. Yeah. So,
[66:16] step one would be becoming aware of this
[66:18] pattern. You're dating people that are
[66:19] in this For some reason you're
[66:21] So, in this case, that is obvious. If
[66:24] you're if you're
[66:25] getting into relationships with people
[66:27] who are already attached, you know
[66:28] you're aware of that. What I would want
[66:30] to dig into with her
[66:32] is what it is that she believes about
[66:34] herself
[66:36] that makes her think that that's okay.
[66:38] And I'm imagining already that there
[66:40] must be a
[66:42] a level of self-worth that is
[66:46] has struggled, you know, and maybe
[66:47] there's something in her childhood
[66:48] that's caused that, but
[66:50] you'd only do that if you didn't believe
[66:52] that you deserved someone of your own.
[66:55] So, that's the kind of conversation I
[66:56] would have with someone like that. I
[66:57] would
[66:58] I would probably ask her like, you know,
[67:00] what what goes through your mind when
[67:01] you decide to do that again? And she
[67:04] would say something that she's conscious
[67:05] of thinking. I would want to dig below
[67:08] that and and ask what it is that she
[67:09] believes about herself that makes her
[67:11] think that. So, that's quite an
[67:13] important part of the raised awareness
[67:15] is getting below the thought into the
[67:16] belief. Next step is or certainly if if
[67:20] she's got a history of this is, you
[67:21] know, maybe in journaling acknowledging,
[67:23] writing down, okay, this time that I
[67:25] went out with someone that was
[67:27] you know, kind of
[67:29] engaged in a relationship with someone
[67:31] else or this time I had an affair with a
[67:32] married man. What happened? Like that
[67:35] decision-making process, the point from
[67:37] which you agreed to get into that, what
[67:39] was the consequence? So, really
[67:42] that's the focused attention marrying
[67:44] together that decision with the
[67:46] consequence. You know, one of the things
[67:48] I say is you are basically the sum of
[67:50] every decision that you've made in your
[67:51] life. That's who you are.
[67:53] So, once there's a bit more
[67:56] understanding and attention around like
[67:58] what causes that and how it happens, the
[68:00] next stage is deliberate practice. So,
[68:02] the first challenge is going to be the
[68:04] next time she meets a man
[68:06] who's not available.
[68:08] And she may not yet be able to say no to
[68:11] that. She may have to make another
[68:13] mistake, but she'll make it armed with
[68:14] all the knowledge that she's got now.
[68:17] And she'll see it for what it is.
[68:19] Or she will be able to say no to that
[68:22] man this time.
[68:23] So, the next step is deliberate
[68:24] practice, which is where you say, okay,
[68:26] I used to behave like this. Uh this is
[68:29] the the new me that I want to be as
[68:30] somebody who says no to every man that's
[68:32] married, who um you know,
[68:36] replaces every negative thought with a
[68:37] positive thought or whatever it is that
[68:38] you're working on.
[68:40] You then look for scenarios to practice
[68:41] this new behavior. And at first it will
[68:43] be hard because you have a pathway there
[68:46] that may have been set since childhood
[68:48] that is used to doing a certain thing
[68:50] and the brain is a very energy-hungry
[68:52] organ, so it's it's always trying to use
[68:54] the path of least resistance. Let's say
[68:56] I'm an over-thinker, okay? And you're
[68:58] asking me these questions and I've got
[68:59] this voice in the back of my head
[69:00] saying, why is she even asking me that?
[69:02] What's he trying to get to? Is he trying
[69:03] to trick me?"
[69:04] What I would What I would try to do is
[69:06] silence that voice in my head and say,
[69:08] "Okay, in this podcast with Stephen, I'm
[69:11] going to focus on him. I'm going to take
[69:13] his questions for what they are, and I'm
[69:15] going to speak from my area of
[69:17] expertise. I'm not going to worry about
[69:18] that other stuff that, you know, can go
[69:20] on in my head."
[69:22] And
[69:23] let's say this time I managed to do that
[69:25] 50% of the time, and then I go and do
[69:27] another podcast next week, and I manage
[69:29] to do it 75% of the time, and you know,
[69:31] and so on. Eventually,
[69:34] this new pathway that I've been building
[69:37] will become stronger than the one that I
[69:38] had before, and then every time I turn
[69:41] up for a podcast, I'll just be
[69:43] completely present and attentive, and
[69:45] I'll get to the end of it, and
[69:47] that's the new me, now.
[69:49] So, behaviors that we repeat, so let's
[69:51] start starting at the beginning of those
[69:53] three steps. The first step is becoming
[69:54] aware of the
[69:56] pattern in our lives. The second step is
[69:58] becoming really cognizant of the pain or
[70:01] the consequences of that
[70:04] pattern. Mhm. And the third step is kind
[70:06] of like setting an an intention for who
[70:08] we want to become, Mhm. and the goals we
[70:10] have, and then practicing it as much as
[70:13] possible.
[70:13] Yeah. And that is the three steps to The
[70:16] fourth It's not a step, but the fourth
[70:18] factor is accountability. Okay. Because
[70:20] most people left to their own devices
[70:23] will give up on that process when it get
[70:25] feels too hard. At step three. Yeah.
[70:28] Um so,
[70:31] you know, with years of practice and
[70:34] journaling, I have become better at
[70:36] holding myself accountable,
[70:38] but for most people, there's got to be
[70:41] some external. So, it could be a friend.
[70:43] Um one of the reasons I'm a big fan of
[70:45] doing these action boards is that
[70:47] there's a very tangible thing in front
[70:48] of you that with images of what you said
[70:50] you wanted to achieve this year, which
[70:52] you can clearly and your friends and
[70:53] family can see at the end of the year
[70:55] whether you did or you didn't.
[70:57] Um and you know, of course, you can have
[71:00] an actual like professional person that
[71:02] is there like your language teacher to
[71:04] hold you accountable.
[71:06] to
[71:07] We're going to have to edit this out cuz
[71:08] you really are pushing this.
[71:10] You've got an agenda here.
[71:12] I I've been really You spoke earlier
[71:14] about just a second ago about how
[71:17] when you're trying to create a new
[71:18] pathway, if there's an existing one Mhm.
[71:21] that is very well established from your
[71:23] childhood,
[71:24] Mhm.
[71:25] it's increasingly harder. So, I've
[71:27] always been unorganized. I lived I grew
[71:29] up in a home that was looked like atomic
[71:31] bomb had hit it.
[71:32] Yeah. It was just a show inside. It
[71:34] was an absolute mess. So, that habit of
[71:37] just being messy is quite well
[71:39] established. The pathway in my brain of
[71:41] being messy is well established. And
[71:42] more broadly, I'm thinking here about
[71:44] trauma and how trauma looks in the
[71:46] brain.
[71:46] Mhm. When we've had really traumatic
[71:48] early experiences in our life or in the
[71:50] context of my friend, we might have
[71:51] learned that we're not deserving of
[71:53] someone or we we're not worthy or we you
[71:55] know, we're not enough or we're
[71:56] different. That might be a really well
[71:58] established pathway.
[72:00] Does doesn't that
[72:03] suggest that there are some behavior
[72:04] patterns that are just
[72:07] practically immovable, practically
[72:09] unchangeable? Mhm. Um I don't want to
[72:12] say yes to that, but what I am going to
[72:13] say is we've moved away from using this
[72:15] term hardwired, which kind of means like
[72:18] it's there forever.
[72:19] And we talk about soft-wiring now
[72:20] because of neuroplasticity.
[72:23] I know people who have been through
[72:24] incredible amounts of trauma. There's
[72:26] going to be an example coming up on my
[72:28] podcast soon
[72:29] who has done so much work on herself
[72:33] that she's really in a beautiful place
[72:35] as a psychologist and a Vedic astrologer
[72:37] helping other people learn to deal with
[72:39] that trauma.
[72:40] So,
[72:41] there's a lot that can happen.
[72:43] She was clearly a very resilient person
[72:45] and got herself educated.
[72:49] Some people deal with the consequences
[72:50] of trauma for the rest of their life.
[72:52] And you know, it runs their life and
[72:53] it's it's sad.
[72:55] Um
[72:56] you may not be able to
[72:59] deal with every single thing that you've
[73:01] experienced or the full extent of what
[73:03] you've experienced, but I do believe
[73:04] that there's a lot that everybody can
[73:06] do.
[73:07] Earlier you talked about generational
[73:08] trauma
[73:10] um and epigenetics, so you said.
[73:13] What are What are both of those things?
[73:15] The first time I heard about
[73:16] generational trauma, I thought it was
[73:17] like woo-woo
[73:19] uh fluffy
[73:22] hopeful like wishful think like
[73:24] a nice way to blame your ancestors for
[73:27] the way that you are.
[73:29] As if when I first heard about this
[73:30] concept that you you could be passed
[73:32] down trauma from your parents or your
[73:35] grandparents, it just seemed like it
[73:36] couldn't possibly be true. Yeah, I know.
[73:39] I mean, it's relatively new area of
[73:40] research. So
[73:42] I'm actually going to separate this into
[73:43] a few things. So generational trauma
[73:46] um and you can look this up is related
[73:50] to specific
[73:51] times of acts that were
[73:55] um
[73:56] placed onto particular marginalized
[73:59] groups.
[74:00] So like First Americans, slavery
[74:04] um
[74:05] there's in in Asia there are some
[74:07] particular groups that were um
[74:10] treated in a certain way.
[74:12] And that is the
[74:14] So the impact of generational trauma is
[74:16] when something happened to one
[74:17] generation
[74:19] there's a psychological spillover and it
[74:21] can be something to do with you always
[74:23] feel isolated or you always feel lonely
[74:25] or you always feel at the margin or you
[74:27] always feel left out. That's because
[74:30] a whole generation were treated in a
[74:31] certain way and that has an impact.
[74:34] Intergenerational epigenetic trauma is
[74:37] about how
[74:38] some external
[74:41] event
[74:43] actually changes the expression of your
[74:45] genes.
[74:46] So we have a genotype and a phenotype.
[74:48] Genotype is your DNA. It doesn't change,
[74:51] but the phenotype is which bits get
[74:53] switched on and switched off.
[74:55] The most famous examples of this are the
[74:57] Holocaust and the Dutch famine.
[75:00] But, there are other examples.
[75:01] And we are sufficient generations away
[75:04] from that now to have seen like
[75:06] three plus generations changes in the
[75:09] stress responses.
[75:11] And so and it's not always bad. So,
[75:14] sometimes people are more resilient
[75:15] because their grandparents or
[75:16] great-grandparents went through
[75:18] something terrible. Sometimes people are
[75:19] more anxious.
[75:21] And it's hard to know necessarily why
[75:23] things might go one way or another.
[75:25] I always say to people that
[75:28] you aren't born with the genes that your
[75:30] parents had when they were born.
[75:32] You're born with the expression of the
[75:34] genes that your parents had around the
[75:35] time of conception.
[75:38] And then, of course, your mother's
[75:39] stress levels through through the
[75:41] trimesters of pregnancy.
[75:43] And this isn't meant to blame anyone for
[75:45] what happened in the past or how
[75:47] stressed they feel when they're
[75:48] pregnant. It's meant to raise awareness
[75:50] of the fact that if you have something
[75:52] in your family's history or you did have
[75:54] a particular stress particularly
[75:56] stressful pregnancy, you can use
[75:59] neuroplasticity
[76:00] to improve the chances of your baby
[76:03] expressing genes that will be more
[76:05] helpful for them in life than if you
[76:07] didn't know about all of this stuff.
[76:09] So, if you had a particularly stressful
[76:11] pregnancy, let's say, you're a woman who
[76:13] was really under stress when you were
[76:16] um
[76:18] eight months pregnant.
[76:20] How does that impact the baby? And what
[76:22] what what symptoms are you like to
[76:24] likely to see in that baby that it
[76:25] wouldn't have had otherwise?
[76:28] Okay, so I'm going to give you a really
[76:29] like tangible answer before I take it
[76:31] back to the um
[76:33] something we were talking about before.
[76:34] Imagine the mother's a heroin addict.
[76:36] Mhm. That is affecting the baby, right?
[76:38] Yeah, yeah. And that's because they
[76:40] share the same blood supply. Yeah.
[76:42] So, if the mother is stressed and she's
[76:44] got high levels of cortisol, then that
[76:46] cortisol is going through the placenta
[76:48] into the baby's blood supply.
[76:51] And basically
[76:53] being stressed from in utero
[76:55] could switch on genes for
[76:59] not being resilient to stress or being
[77:00] more
[77:01] um liable to anxiety or mood disorder.
[77:05] Um and it's already starting off, you
[77:06] know, inflammation in this like tiny
[77:08] baby that hasn't even been born yet. I
[77:10] know that sounds terrible and I really
[77:12] don't want this to come across like all
[77:14] moms have to be completely zen and never
[77:16] get stressed cuz that's just not
[77:17] reality. But, you know, everything that
[77:20] you can do, of course, to manage your
[77:21] stress during pregnancy is helpful. But,
[77:24] then completely understanding that if
[77:26] your child then starts to show any like
[77:28] symptoms of anxiety or
[77:30] you know, in in inability to manage
[77:32] their emotions after an age where they
[77:33] should be kind of able to do that, you
[77:35] can introduce them to meditation. You
[77:37] can sit with them and talk to them about
[77:39] their emotions and how they're feeling.
[77:41] There are lots of really like great
[77:42] books and videos that you can use to
[77:44] like educate children about that kind of
[77:46] thing. Um
[77:48] I always say knowledge is power and
[77:52] unfortunately
[77:54] difficult things can happen to people in
[77:56] life, but
[77:57] every time something like that's
[77:58] happened to me, I've gone down a rabbit
[78:01] hole of, okay, what can I find that can
[78:03] help me to overcome this and and be
[78:05] better.
[78:06] I was just thinking about as you were
[78:07] talking about grief and the brain.
[78:10] The relationship between, you know, what
[78:12] happens in the brain when we're
[78:13] experiencing grief and stuff. I think
[78:15] about grief and heartbreak as strong
[78:17] emotions. So many of us, including one
[78:19] of my best friends, is recent is
[78:20] recently grieving a relationship he's
[78:22] lost and I've got another friend that's
[78:24] lost someone in their life Mhm. who's
[78:25] passed away. And it's such an
[78:27] all-consuming force Mhm. that seems to
[78:30] be resistant to advice.
[78:32] I just wondered if through your work
[78:34] you'd learn anything about grief in the
[78:35] brain and heartbreak in the brain. Yeah,
[78:37] so I think there's so many uh versions
[78:40] of grief that we've seen particularly in
[78:42] the last few years, which is loss of
[78:44] sense of self,
[78:45] loss of someone through a relationship
[78:47] breakdown, and loss of someone through
[78:49] actual death.
[78:51] Um
[78:52] and
[78:53] it's interesting
[78:55] to hear you say
[78:57] as a, you know, caring onlooker that
[78:59] it's something that's so overwhelming
[79:00] and resistant to advice. I strongly
[79:02] believe that
[79:05] to ever heal from grief,
[79:07] you have to go to the bottom of the
[79:09] hole, and however you do that
[79:11] is not something that anyone else can
[79:13] comment on. I think if you are
[79:16] doing things like throwing yourself back
[79:17] into work, or like partying too much to
[79:20] avoid it, that's not right. But if
[79:22] somebody has to go somewhere emotionally
[79:24] to deal with grief,
[79:27] they've got to be supported and allowed
[79:28] to do that. And
[79:31] and then maybe at times
[79:33] gently nudged in terms of like, how you
[79:35] doing? You know, is it kind of are you
[79:37] feeling
[79:39] any sort of like healing or resolution
[79:41] or understanding or acceptance?
[79:43] I do think particularly with grief that
[79:45] if we haven't been through something
[79:47] ourselves, it's it's it's really hard to
[79:49] imagine how bad it is, even though you
[79:51] might, you know, care very deeply.
[79:53] What makes you think that? What makes
[79:55] you think that you have to go to the
[79:56] bottom of the hole?
[79:57] Because I think we are very avoidant
[80:00] emotionally. Um I think that's part of
[80:02] the
[80:02] you know, greater issue that I was
[80:04] talking about, which is
[80:05] being lost and disconnected. And I
[80:07] remember
[80:08] when my first marriage broke up and I
[80:11] was changing career,
[80:13] thinking if I hadn't been a psychiatrist
[80:14] and know the things that I know, I can
[80:16] see how you could end up on a
[80:17] psychiatric ward going through, you
[80:19] know, the breakup at breakdown of a
[80:20] marriage.
[80:21] Um
[80:22] so what all I'm trying to say, I'm not
[80:24] trying to say you have to feel terrible.
[80:25] What I'm trying to say is you have to
[80:27] process all the emotions.
[80:29] And you kind of have to surrender to it
[80:31] a bit, because
[80:32] if you try to gloss over that, it will
[80:34] come back and bite you
[80:36] later.
[80:37] And I've seen many stories of that
[80:38] happening where people
[80:41] you know, did really great things like
[80:42] write a book about it or, you know,
[80:44] shower all of their care and love and
[80:45] attention onto other people
[80:48] and then eventually found that they
[80:49] hadn't actually dealt with their inner
[80:50] emotions. So,
[80:52] when I say go to the the bottom of it, I
[80:54] don't necessarily mean
[80:56] feel really terrible. I mean, process
[80:59] all of the emotions fully because then
[81:01] you can actually heal and at some stage
[81:03] move forward. It doesn't mean you
[81:04] forget, you know, the person or what
[81:06] happened, but
[81:09] if you try to gloss over it, I think
[81:11] this
[81:12] it's
[81:13] it's dangerous cuz it's such a deep
[81:15] it's such a deep emotion. It's such a
[81:17] facing of your own mortality.
[81:19] Quick one, I discovered a product which
[81:21] has changed my life called Eight Sleep.
[81:23] And I'm so proud to say today that I had
[81:25] a chat with the founder of the brand and
[81:26] they are now a podcast sponsor. And one
[81:28] of the things I've come to learn on this
[81:29] podcast from speaking with sleep experts
[81:31] like Matthew Walker, is how important
[81:33] temperature is when it comes to sleep.
[81:35] The temperature of your room, the
[81:37] temperature of your bed. And also one of
[81:39] the big insights I had from speaking to
[81:41] some experts was that the temperature of
[81:44] the room should fluctuate throughout the
[81:46] night as you move through different
[81:48] stages of sleep. So, when you first get
[81:50] into bed, it should be quite cool in
[81:52] bed. It should then get a little bit
[81:54] cooler and then the temperature should
[81:56] increase near the end. And that is a
[81:57] reflection of what would have happened
[82:00] in nature once upon a time. You've
[82:02] probably come to learn that I have
[82:03] sponsors on this podcast that I use and
[82:06] products that I love. My sponsors should
[82:08] be a reflection of the conversations I'm
[82:10] having, but also a reflection of what
[82:12] I'm using in my life. So, to celebrate
[82:14] them being a new podcast sponsor, I
[82:15] always want to get a discount for you
[82:17] guys and I've got one. Go to
[82:18] eightsleep.com, which is e i g h t
[82:22] sleep.com/steven
[82:25] and if you do that, you'll save $150
[82:28] on the pod cover that I have on my bed,
[82:30] the one I'm talking about. Grab your pod
[82:32] cover, send me a DM, and let me know how
[82:35] you get on. As you may know, this
[82:36] podcast is sponsored by Huel. If you're
[82:38] living under a rock, you might have
[82:39] missed that. I've come to learn over
[82:40] time not all of the products they have
[82:42] are for me, but the ones that are for me
[82:44] have really, really changed my life in a
[82:46] profound way. All of the products are
[82:47] designed for different use cases and
[82:49] different people. For me, as you'll
[82:50] probably know, the ready-to-drink
[82:52] bottles are a staple of my life at the
[82:54] moment. Um and they have been for many,
[82:55] many years. But for a lot of other
[82:57] people, they have the hot and savory,
[82:59] which is a 5-minute hot meal that's
[83:00] nutritionally complete. It contains all
[83:02] the good stuff that all Huel products
[83:03] contain, which is the 23 vitamins and
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[83:07] wonderful balance of sort of nutritional
[83:09] completeness. And then you have the bars
[83:10] as well. If you've heard about Huel on
[83:12] this podcast, you've heard me talking
[83:13] about it a lot. You're aware that I'm an
[83:14] investor in the company. You're aware
[83:16] that I'm on the board of the company.
[83:17] And you're not sure where to start, I
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[83:34] bundle.
[83:36] In your book, you talk about the
[83:37] mechanisms of neuroplasticity.
[83:40] What are the mechanisms of
[83:41] neuroplasticity and the three factors
[83:43] that have the biggest impact on changes
[83:45] in the brain?
[83:46] So, the first one is myelination. And
[83:48] anyone who does a lot of sport, who
[83:50] repeats a certain, um
[83:51] you know, weight training, will
[83:52] understand that that's what's happening
[83:54] to my muscles.
[83:56] You know when I said, you know, you come
[83:58] here pretty much every day and you sit
[83:59] with someone and you interview them and
[84:00] you're really great at asking questions.
[84:02] That's like something you're super good
[84:04] at. That, because you repeat it, it
[84:06] becomes like a superpower. And that
[84:09] means that that what's happening there
[84:10] is myelination. So, myelin is a fatty
[84:13] substance that coats some neural
[84:15] pathways. And those pathways become fast
[84:18] pathways.
[84:20] Now, there's a reason from evolution why
[84:21] we have some fast pathways and some slow
[84:23] pathways. And the reason is that if you
[84:27] put your hand in the fire, your reflex
[84:29] to snatch your hand out is a fast
[84:30] pathway, but your pain reflex is a slow
[84:33] pathway because if you were
[84:34] incapacitated by pain, the minute you
[84:36] put your hand in the fire, you wouldn't
[84:37] be able to get away from it.
[84:39] One of the mechanisms of neuroplasticity
[84:41] is becoming even better at something
[84:43] that you're really good at, and that's
[84:45] happens through myelination.
[84:46] The most common one, which is something
[84:48] that you're quite good at, but if you
[84:51] had loads of time, you could become
[84:53] really good at it, but you maybe don't
[84:55] have loads of time,
[84:56] happens through synaptic connection. So,
[84:58] that's the one that can feel like quite
[85:00] hard work.
[85:01] But, if you put in the effort, then you
[85:04] can change your brain. So, that means
[85:05] that neurons that already exist in the
[85:07] brain connect up with each other and
[85:09] start to form new pathways.
[85:11] And the third mechanism,
[85:13] which doesn't happen a lot in the adult
[85:15] brain, but it does happen around the
[85:16] hippocampus cuz we do lay down new
[85:18] memories in life,
[85:20] happens a lot in children's brains, is
[85:22] called neurogenesis.
[85:24] And that is um little embryonic nerve
[85:26] cells that float around in the brain
[85:28] actually becoming fully formed nerve
[85:30] cells, neurons, and connecting up
[85:32] through synaptic connection, and maybe
[85:34] getting myelinated.
[85:36] And there's a factor, a growth factor
[85:38] that's involved in that, the embryonic
[85:40] cell becoming an adult cell,
[85:42] which is called BDNF, or brain-derived
[85:45] neurotrophic factor. And trophic means
[85:48] growth, so neurotrophic is growth of
[85:50] neurons.
[85:51] And the things that contribute mostly to
[85:53] that are aerobic exercise and eating
[85:56] dark-skinned foods.
[85:59] Yeah.
[86:01] Dark-skinned foods?
[86:02] Yeah. So, let me just cover the exercise
[86:05] one first cuz this is one of my fun
[86:07] facts, which is that if you are
[86:08] regularly doing aerobic exercise,
[86:11] the turnover of those cells in your
[86:12] brain is about 13, 14%.
[86:15] So, like the the amount in the speed in
[86:17] which they like die die off. No, the
[86:19] speed in which they go from embryonic to
[86:21] full-grown cells.
[86:22] Oh, okay.
[86:22] Yeah.
[86:23] Okay. So, cuz we want neurogenesis to
[86:25] happen. Okay.
[86:27] If you haven't been doing exercise for a
[86:29] while and then you start,
[86:31] the rate of cell turnover is like 30%.
[86:34] So, it it increases
[86:36] after a period of inactivity with new
[86:38] aerobic exercise. So, that's my excuse
[86:40] for like being a couch potato half the
[86:42] time and then starting up again.
[86:45] Oh, oh, yeah.
[86:46] Who you kidding?
[86:49] Okay, so it will it will accelerate the
[86:50] speed in which you'll make you're making
[86:52] those connections.
[86:53] Yeah, making the
[86:54] embryonic cells grow into new cells and
[86:56] then connect up with existing ones.
[87:00] In So, I want to make sure I'm super
[87:01] clear on this. So, if I'm trying to
[87:03] develop if I'm trying to speak a
[87:04] different language,
[87:05] Mhm.
[87:06] by doing exercise that has an impact on
[87:09] Oh, it'll help you learn and retain
[87:10] memories, yeah.
[87:12] So, in
[87:15] in in simple language, if I'm doing
[87:16] aerobic exercise, my ability to
[87:18] accelerate my neuroplasticity
[87:21] will increase. Yeah.
[87:23] Oh.
[87:25] What if it's like
[87:26] not aerobic exercise? What if I'm just
[87:28] like lifting big weights? Um there are
[87:29] benefits to your brain of other types of
[87:31] exercise, but weight training doesn't
[87:34] relate to neurogenesis as much. Okay.
[87:37] This isn't so much about language, but
[87:39] it's another example of mind over
[87:42] matter.
[87:43] So, this was an experiment done on two
[87:45] groups of weightlifters.
[87:48] Thought you might like this one.
[87:50] That's a big compliment. Thank you so
[87:51] much. You think I'm a weightlifter? You
[87:54] think I identify as a weightlifter? You
[87:55] looked at me and thought weightlifter.
[87:57] Totally. Thank you so much. Um this was
[88:00] finger and elbow weights, so so maybe
[88:01] not so glamorous in this experiment.
[88:04] Okay. So, one group
[88:06] lifted finger or elbow weights. I think
[88:09] this This a 2-week study
[88:11] and they showed I think it was about a
[88:13] 40% increase in in muscle mass of the
[88:17] targeted muscle group for those weights.
[88:20] Their counterparts
[88:22] only imagined lifting weights for 2
[88:25] weeks. They lifted no weights for 2
[88:27] weeks. They just sat there and they
[88:28] visualized themselves lifting weights.
[88:31] And they had a 13% increase in muscle
[88:34] mass.
[88:36] Interesting.
[88:38] So, we can tell our brain to grow
[88:39] muscle?
[88:42] Have you been secretly doing that?
[88:44] I could be doing that instead. I've been
[88:45] going to the gym.
[88:47] It'd be much easier if I could just
[88:48] watch the football and tell myself that
[88:50] I'm lifting weights.
[88:51] Well, I don't think you can watch the
[88:52] football. I think the whole like
[88:54] visualization and you know, intention
[88:56] and attention stuff was important part
[88:57] of it. I mean, that's that speaks to the
[88:59] the power of our thoughts again, doesn't
[89:01] it really? If if our thoughts can tell
[89:04] our brain to grow muscles.
[89:07] Has that been Is that
[89:08] It's in the book.
[89:10] But it But is it like Is it
[89:12] Is that widely accepted as the truth?
[89:14] I'm surprised there's not like personal
[89:16] trainers that just sit you down in an
[89:17] empty room and just go, "Right." Well,
[89:19] think about the number of athletes that
[89:21] use visualization as part of their
[89:22] training.
[89:24] Of course they do the exercise and the
[89:26] practice and everything, but
[89:27] they That's hugely used in sports.
[89:31] Interesting. It's obviously not a case
[89:33] that I would just then go home and start
[89:34] imagining working out, but it does it
[89:36] does again remind me of the importance
[89:38] of just thinking about
[89:40] um positive things that are in line with
[89:42] my goals. Yeah. I mean, what's the harm
[89:45] in
[89:46] imagining yourself more muscular or more
[89:48] youthful alongside eating the dark foods
[89:51] and getting enough sleep, you know? It's
[89:53] like it's part of the package. Do you
[89:55] want to know what you should eat so that
[89:56] you can
[89:57] Please. What is What is this
[89:58] dark-skinned foods? So, basically, you
[90:00] know, at the basic level, we want people
[90:02] to have a a healthy balanced diet,
[90:04] mostly plant-based.
[90:06] But where you can choose
[90:08] a darker version of a food,
[90:10] the um pigment in the skin of that food
[90:13] has higher levels of antioxidants called
[90:15] anthocyanins, and they also contribute
[90:18] to neurogenesis.
[90:19] So, it's basically like eating black
[90:21] beans instead of white beans, or eating
[90:22] blueberries instead of strawberries.
[90:24] Dark chocolate instead of milk
[90:26] chocolate. Purple sprouting broccoli
[90:28] instead of green broccoli. Um
[90:31] and good quality coffee counts as well.
[90:36] Yeah, so I you know, I try to
[90:38] vary what I eat, but also always choose
[90:40] the darker option if I can.
[90:44] Okay, so is there anything else that
[90:46] one needs to know about the process of
[90:48] neuroplasticity? So, from what I've
[90:49] ascertained so far, it's about
[90:51] understanding um the patterns we have in
[90:53] our brain, understanding the
[90:54] consequences of them. Repetition is key
[90:57] to establishing new pathways.
[90:59] Um is there anything else that I need to
[91:00] be really aware of? Cuz I do want to
[91:03] grow my brain and change my brain.
[91:05] Yeah. So, the accountability piece,
[91:07] which we've discussed. But, also
[91:08] creating the conditions in your body for
[91:11] your brain to be able to do all of that
[91:12] stuff. And so, you know, this is a bit
[91:14] of repetition, but sleeping roughly 8
[91:17] hours a night, having regular sleep and
[91:19] wake times seems to have an additional
[91:21] benefit. We don't know why.
[91:22] So, within an hour. So, go to sleep
[91:24] between 10:00 and 11:00, wake up
[91:26] whenever. Um
[91:28] not being sedentary. So, being
[91:30] physically active doesn't necessarily
[91:31] mean you have to pound it at the gym.
[91:33] To be honest, in terms of
[91:34] neuroplasticity,
[91:36] you don't want to do too much high
[91:37] intensity exercise because it spikes
[91:39] your cortisol levels. So, it's better to
[91:41] do kind of quite gentle exercise.
[91:44] Eating 30 different plant products a
[91:47] week, and varying the color as much as
[91:49] possible.
[91:51] You know, managing your stress, the
[91:52] whether it's through meditation or just
[91:54] like removing the causes of stress.
[91:56] If you're doing and being hydrated.
[91:59] If you are doing all of those things,
[92:00] and you want to play at level two of the
[92:02] game,
[92:03] you could start doing time-restricted
[92:04] eating.
[92:06] So, only eating between
[92:08] I only eat between 12:00 noon and 8:00
[92:09] p.m.
[92:10] But, you could do 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.
[92:12] So, that kind of fasting is very
[92:14] beneficial for your brain as well, but
[92:15] only if you've got the foundations
[92:17] right. It's not going to help you if you
[92:18] don't.
[92:19] What does it do for the brain, fasting?
[92:21] Intermittent fasting? Um well, it helps
[92:23] to regulate your blood sugar levels.
[92:26] So, you know, spiking blood sugar levels
[92:29] aren't good for your body or your brain.
[92:32] Um and fasting and calorie restriction,
[92:35] they do have like
[92:36] brain health and longevity benefits, but
[92:40] that, you know,
[92:42] only if your foundations are right. You
[92:45] know, somebody who's stressed or
[92:47] eats badly or doesn't sleep enough will
[92:49] not benefit from time-restricted eating
[92:51] or intermittent fasting. Um
[92:54] because it is a form of stress on your
[92:56] body, but it's a form of stress that
[92:57] your body can take
[92:59] and use to build resilience if the
[93:02] baseline level of stuff is good.
[93:04] And for neuroplasticity to happen, we
[93:05] need to be taking on
[93:08] big cognitive challenges, challenges
[93:10] that kind of break existing pathways.
[93:12] Yeah. So, I want to learn to DJ. I've
[93:15] been learning for about 12 months now.
[93:16] Mhm. Um that feels like a
[93:19] big cognitive challenge for me.
[93:21] Yeah, that's great. Um
[93:24] that's the type of thing that would
[93:25] establish a new pathway in my brain.
[93:26] Absolutely. Someone's just looking to
[93:28] build their self-esteem and their
[93:30] confidence. What does the brain tell us
[93:32] about the process of doing that? Is it
[93:34] Is it Does it go back again to what we
[93:36] said about awareness, about
[93:37] understanding the feelings and the
[93:39] consequences, and about setting goals
[93:41] and repetition and accountability?
[93:44] It will get to that, but there's
[93:45] actually a little bit of a jump-start to
[93:47] that, which is really helpful,
[93:48] particularly in terms of confidence and
[93:50] self-esteem, which is that usually
[93:53] there's a particular recurring negative
[93:55] thought that's associated with feelings
[93:57] of lack of confidence.
[93:59] Um
[94:00] so, if you can identify what that is
[94:04] and
[94:05] create a positive affirmation that's
[94:08] like the opposite of it or something
[94:10] that counteracts it,
[94:11] then that can be a great way to get
[94:13] started. My phrase would have been, "It
[94:15] has to be perfect and it's not going to
[94:17] be perfect."
[94:18] I wouldn't have been able to say this
[94:19] last year, but now I would I would
[94:21] probably be able to say, "It is going to
[94:23] be better than perfect. It is going to
[94:24] be amazing. Like, I know it." Um but to
[94:27] get myself there, I could have said,
[94:30] "It doesn't have to be perfect, but it's
[94:31] going to be great." Or I could have
[94:32] said,
[94:33] "Maybe it will be perfect." Sometimes
[94:35] the question I ask myself is, "What's
[94:37] the best possible outcome that could
[94:39] happen here?" So, it's changing your
[94:41] language in your mind about the things
[94:43] that you think. So, that's basically
[94:46] metacognition, which is that you can you
[94:48] you can understand your own thinking.
[94:50] And then,
[94:52] reversing that narrative quite strongly,
[94:54] even if it doesn't feel like it's
[94:55] totally true, and just repeating that so
[94:58] much that you start to wear down that
[95:00] other pathway. Does language really
[95:02] matter? The language we say to ourselves
[95:04] and to others.
[95:05] Yeah, yeah, it really matters. Yeah, how
[95:07] we speak about ourselves. How do we know
[95:09] that matters?
[95:10] I mean, it's it's neuroplasticity. If
[95:11] you're repeating something
[95:13] in your mind or out loud,
[95:16] then if that's being repeated more than
[95:20] another statement, it's the one that
[95:21] your brain's going to believe.
[95:24] So, we can trick our brains effectively
[95:26] by saying something else to ourselves
[95:28] repeatedly. Cuz there's this whole
[95:30] movement in, you know, the personal
[95:31] development community which says you
[95:32] just kind of look in the mirror
[95:34] and you say to yourself like, "I'm
[95:35] beautiful. I'm attractive. Everyone's
[95:37] going to love me. I'm going to be rich."
[95:39] Mhm.
[95:40] And I
[95:40] found it hard to get on board with that
[95:42] train. Yeah.
[95:44] That one Cuz I know I'm bullshitting
[95:45] myself.
[95:46] I you know, in my like subconscious or
[95:48] whatever, I just know if I said those
[95:50] things, I'm not saying about myself, but
[95:52] saying those very, very far away things.
[95:54] I just think my brain is smart enough to
[95:55] know that I'm bullshitting myself. Yeah,
[95:57] I think there's an element of reality to
[95:58] it. So So, there's a few things there,
[96:00] which is
[96:01] those particular things that you said
[96:03] are very shallow.
[96:04] They are not really the things that
[96:06] people should need, you know, need to be
[96:07] saying to themselves. Um
[96:10] what I find,
[96:12] and I picked this up from podcast with
[96:14] Lewis, is
[96:15] he said that sometimes he would just say
[96:17] to himself, "I'm safe. I'm safe. I'm
[96:19] okay." And actually just sometimes
[96:20] saying to myself, "I'm safe."
[96:22] is that's what I need to hear, not I'm
[96:25] beautiful and I'm amazing. That That
[96:27] does feel like
[96:29] A, it's kind of thing that everybody
[96:31] probably wants to say. B,
[96:33] It's not addressing the underlying
[96:34] issues, is it?
[96:35] Yeah, it's not addressing. And And I'm
[96:36] going to be rich. I mean, that's the
[96:38] worst one because you actually have to
[96:40] do stuff to make that happen, you know?
[96:41] You can't just say say that.
[96:43] So, I think finding the stuff that you
[96:45] need to say to yourself that is not to
[96:47] do with social expectation or parental
[96:49] expectation or, you know, social group.
[96:53] Um what everybody else is doing. Like,
[96:55] what you really want to know of yourself
[96:58] that's going to set you up to be able to
[96:59] go out into the real world and do the
[97:01] stuff that you need to do to get the
[97:03] other things that you want.
[97:05] There you said, you can't just say it,
[97:07] you have to go out and do it.
[97:08] Mhm. Now, when people hear this term
[97:10] manifestation, Mhm.
[97:12] it's highly associated with just kind of
[97:14] saying stuff or thinking stuff.
[97:16] And it's less associated with actually
[97:18] going out and doing it. So,
[97:19] Yeah. a lot of people just turn off when
[97:21] someone talks about manifestation
[97:23] Mhm. because it sounds kind of woo-woo,
[97:25] put it on the vision board, and it will
[97:27] happen. And in fact, I think I've said
[97:28] this a few times, but I had
[97:30] I wouldn't say it was an argument, but a
[97:31] disagreement which resulted in the
[97:33] person I was speaking to literally
[97:34] getting out of a taxi in the middle of
[97:36] New York City and walking off. I was on
[97:37] a date many years ago. And the girl was
[97:39] saying to me that she goes, "You can
[97:40] just manifest anything in your life. So,
[97:42] you can just think about it, and then it
[97:44] will happen." So, I said to her, I was
[97:44] like, "You think you could just like
[97:46] think about becoming a millionaire, and
[97:47] then it will happen. And she goes,
[97:48] "Yeah." And I go, "And you wouldn't even
[97:50] have to like
[97:51] do all the stuff?" And she was like,
[97:52] "No, you could just like think about it
[97:54] and the universe will attract it into
[97:55] your life."
[97:57] Do you believe in manifestation?
[97:59] And if so, what form of manifestation?
[98:01] And how is that supported with
[98:03] neuroscience?
[98:03] Mhm.
[98:05] So, I believe in manifestation based on
[98:10] your brain. So, your thoughts, your
[98:13] beliefs, your actions.
[98:15] So, where I've called my book The
[98:16] Source, I have said your brain is the
[98:19] source of you being able to attract
[98:21] everything that you want into your life.
[98:23] So, I sat down one summer and I like
[98:27] researched the laws of attraction and
[98:28] and just looked at whether I could
[98:30] explain them through cognitive science,
[98:32] which is psychology and neuroscience.
[98:34] And I could.
[98:35] So, so I was kind of like, "Oh, I'm onto
[98:36] something here." And the first stage for
[98:38] me was
[98:40] understanding that it is absolutely to
[98:42] do with the way that you think, but then
[98:44] it's not magically like attracting
[98:45] something in the atmosphere. It's to do
[98:47] with the changes that you make based on
[98:49] your thought process.
[98:51] I do I do believe in vision boards, but
[98:53] I call them action boards because I see
[98:55] them as a representation of what I want,
[98:57] but I still have to go out there and
[98:58] make those things happen. Mhm.
[99:00] I think it's also much more empowering
[99:03] to believe that it's your brain that's
[99:05] making that stuff happen and not some
[99:07] external
[99:08] force that you're not really sure what
[99:10] it is. So, how would I manifest
[99:12] something into my life? Say I want to
[99:13] manifest a great relationship.
[99:16] Mhm. I'm in a great relationship, but
[99:17] say I was single and I wanted to
[99:19] manifest the perfect partner. Mhm. How
[99:21] would I manifest the perfect partner
[99:23] into my life
[99:24] using the brain as the source? Yeah, so
[99:27] with that one
[99:29] I I think the preferred method is to
[99:32] create a list of the attributes that you
[99:34] want in that person.
[99:36] But you
[99:37] then have to make sure that you are
[99:40] everything that is on that list. Ooh.
[99:44] So, if I want a blonde, I've got to dye
[99:45] my hair.
[99:47] I'm joking.
[99:48] I'm joking.
[99:50] Um okay, I get I get what you mean. So,
[99:51] you you're talking about fundamental
[99:53] qualities and values. Yeah. And then
[99:55] making sure that you represent those
[99:56] qualities and values. That's I've never
[99:58] heard anyone say that, but that is so
[99:59] important because
[100:02] I know so many people who would write a
[100:04] list that they couldn't meet themselves
[100:06] in terms of fundamental values. They
[100:07] probably want their partner to be
[100:08] disciplined, to care about their health,
[100:10] to be honest.
[100:12] Mhm.
[100:13] And if they ask themselves are those are
[100:15] they those things, they'd probably fail
[100:16] at that. Mhm. To be fair, my partner is
[100:19] so much better than me in so many ways,
[100:20] nearly every way.
[100:22] Um I'd probably fail at that list, too.
[100:24] Why is that important?
[100:26] I think that you you hear a lot people
[100:28] saying this is what I really want in
[100:29] someone,
[100:30] but you never really hear
[100:33] people saying I've really worked on
[100:34] myself and this is what I believe I have
[100:35] to offer.
[100:37] And so, psychologically,
[100:40] you you meet people at the level of
[100:42] psychological evolution that you're at,
[100:45] but equally on the sort of flip side of
[100:47] the coin, you meet people at the level
[100:48] of psychological wound that you have.
[100:51] So,
[100:52] to be in a balanced relationship
[100:55] with someone that's really great,
[100:57] you got to be bringing something to the
[100:59] party. I mean, no one's going to go out
[101:00] with you if they're really amazing and
[101:03] you're a drag. But, drags want amazing
[101:05] people.
[101:06] This is the problem, right?
[101:09] It's true, right? I guess so. Are you
[101:11] scared to say it? Like
[101:13] When I was at When I was at optimal drag
[101:15] in my life, when I was the most a drag
[101:16] in my life, I attracted drag people, but
[101:19] I wanted amazing people and I could
[101:20] never get them.
[101:21] Yeah, but I feel like with you, that was
[101:24] part of your journey of
[101:26] knowing that you could become an amazing
[101:27] person.
[101:28] I believed I could. Yeah. Exactly. So,
[101:31] you got an amazing person once you did
[101:33] the work that took you out of
[101:35] dragsville. Amen. Okay, so that's super
[101:37] interesting. So, make sure you are the
[101:39] things on that list because we'll rise
[101:41] to the level of our um our values and
[101:43] we'll fall to the level of our wounds.
[101:46] Yeah, I love the way you put that, but
[101:47] also that
[101:51] you know, what you have to offer in a
[101:52] relationship is just as important as
[101:54] what you want out of it. And I don't
[101:56] know, as a society we just don't really
[101:58] seem to think about it like that.
[102:00] There's actually a note in my diary
[102:01] where I wrote
[102:04] people who focus on what they want don't
[102:06] typically get what they want. People who
[102:08] focus on what they have to offer
[102:09] typically get what they want.
[102:11] That's amazing. That's like basically
[102:13] the same thing. Yeah, I literally just
[102:14] parroted it off you. Day drives to No,
[102:16] but it is in my diary and I posted on
[102:17] Instagram story a while ago that it was
[102:19] just an observation to me in in business
[102:21] when you hire people, the people that
[102:23] are focused on like can I get a pay
[102:25] rise? Can I get a pay rise? Don't
[102:26] typically get the pay rise, but the
[102:27] people that focus on what they have to
[102:29] offer
[102:29] Yeah. they're the ones that you you give
[102:31] all the you promote and you give the pay
[102:33] rise to you because they're focusing on
[102:35] the most important thing, which is I
[102:37] think over prolonged periods of time,
[102:38] not always in the short term
[102:40] and not always in every case, but life
[102:42] will eventually give you roughly what
[102:44] you deserve over a long term generally
[102:46] for most people, not always.
[102:47] Yeah.
[102:47] Cuz there's going to be someone that
[102:48] says I don't know I don't know I don't
[102:49] know. So,
[102:50] you can't what about me because
[102:52] uh I've pre presented a caveat, but
[102:54] generally that's what I've observed. And
[102:55] I've seen people cheat the system. I've
[102:57] seen people get a little bit further
[102:58] ahead than their talent or their value.
[103:01] Mhm. But life has a wonderful way of
[103:03] bringing us back to the level of our
[103:04] values. And you said it in
[103:05] relationships, life will drop you to the
[103:08] depth of your wounds or to the height of
[103:10] your values. So, really if you want to
[103:13] find a sustainable way to get what you
[103:14] want in life is to do that, work on what
[103:16] you can offer other people. Yeah. And as
[103:19] you were speaking, it made me think that
[103:20] actually if let's say if I was
[103:21] constantly like oh, you know, I want I
[103:24] want this pay rise, I want that man.
[103:26] That's going to be a cortisol inducing
[103:28] state in your body. But if instead of
[103:30] that, I'm like, what can I do for
[103:31] Stephen?
[103:32] Um, I have so much love to give. That's
[103:34] going to be oxytocin. And who's someone
[103:36] going to be more attracted to?
[103:38] Interesting.
[103:40] Oh, that's so true.
[103:41] One of the things I want to talk to you
[103:42] about that has been risen in culture
[103:45] recently is neurodivergence.
[103:48] Mhm.
[103:50] Big topic. Mhm.
[103:52] Autism, ADHD. Mhm. Um, so much there. I
[103:57] had a mother send me a voice note the
[103:58] other day, her child has just been um
[104:02] diagnosed with autism. She's really
[104:03] struggling with it and trying to
[104:04] understand uh what it means and where it
[104:07] came from and was it hereditary? And
[104:10] there's so many guests that on my
[104:11] podcast have talked about the rise in
[104:13] diagnosis of ADHD and um is it something
[104:16] that we are
[104:18] causing by the way that we choose to
[104:19] live our lives?
[104:21] When you And from an understanding of
[104:23] neuroscience, what is neurodiversity and
[104:26] what are causing it and what is curing
[104:29] it?
[104:30] Yeah, so this would come more from my
[104:32] experience as a psychiatrist when I did
[104:34] do some work with children as well. Um
[104:37] So, neurodiversity is basically anything
[104:39] that doesn't fall into the
[104:42] category of a typical brain. So, you
[104:45] know, the way that most of the
[104:46] population think and how their brain
[104:48] works. So, that could would include
[104:50] things like dyslexia and dyscalculia and
[104:54] ADD, ADHD
[104:56] and autism {slash} Asperger's spectrum
[104:59] and other things.
[105:01] Um
[105:03] I think that a lot of it is to do with
[105:05] better diagnosis.
[105:07] So,
[105:09] I'm not saying it isn't that it it isn't
[105:11] the case that these things have risen,
[105:14] but I think we're also much better at
[105:15] diagnosing them. So, for example, when I
[105:17] worked with mostly little boys with
[105:19] ADHD,
[105:21] when I saw them for the first time and I
[105:22] took the full family history,
[105:24] there was quite often an absent father
[105:26] who'd actually been like several
[105:27] different relationships and like
[105:29] couldn't hold down a job and you kind of
[105:31] thought, yeah, he probably had it but
[105:33] was undiagnosed.
[105:35] So, there is an element of that.
[105:37] I do think that it is an adaptation to
[105:40] the world which is changing at such a
[105:42] rapid pace which is, you know, always
[105:44] switched on, so much technology. And
[105:46] some people would say that autism is
[105:49] even like a form of evolution in a way
[105:52] to like help us
[105:54] keep up with the changing pace of the
[105:56] world.
[105:59] So, you don't necessarily think we know
[106:00] if it's increasing in prevalence?
[106:03] I think it is but it's partly naturally
[106:06] increasing and partly because we're
[106:07] better at diagnosing it.
[106:10] Okay.
[106:11] I do wonder as as well sometimes things
[106:13] like dyslexia whether
[106:15] humans have always had an element of
[106:17] dyslexia um
[106:18] but it's more
[106:20] it's more obvious and more of a
[106:24] more of a challenge in the world we live
[106:26] in. Um
[106:27] Think about the schooling system and
[106:28] writing and education is a fairly new
[106:30] construct.
[106:31] Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, this isn't
[106:33] to do with neurodivergence but to do
[106:36] with things like gender identity and um
[106:39] sexual orientation, what I found in my
[106:42] research with the um indigenous wisdom
[106:46] is that those things were understood
[106:48] long ago. There was a place for people
[106:50] um and an understanding of
[106:53] you know, their their role in in society
[106:56] and sometimes even an elevated role.
[106:59] So, it's really interesting that we're
[107:01] grappling with things now like
[107:03] you know, what gender does your child
[107:04] want to be and what life, you know, is
[107:07] your child going to have if they're gay
[107:09] or whatever. And like apparently these
[107:10] these ancient cultures were dealing with
[107:12] this like
[107:14] all the time, no problem. Your second
[107:16] series of your podcast is going to focus
[107:17] on some of this work that you learned.
[107:20] Yeah. What are some of the interesting
[107:22] things that if you could only tell me a
[107:23] few that you think would have the most
[107:25] significant impact on my life and you
[107:26] can't mention learning Portuguese,
[107:28] um what would you tell me about?
[107:30] Um so one theme that's come through
[107:32] quite strongly is related to creativity,
[107:35] which was kind of mentioned, but that
[107:37] doing things like humming and chanting
[107:39] are actually like really beneficial.
[107:42] Um and they've obviously been around
[107:43] forever and we don't really know why
[107:45] people did them in the first place,
[107:47] but in terms of expressing creativity
[107:50] and like calming down the nervous
[107:52] system,
[107:53] that's one thing that seems to have come
[107:55] through from kind of like Ayurveda, but
[107:57] also from the um first Americans as
[108:01] well.
[108:02] James Nestor said that to me. Did he?
[108:04] That humming was Yeah.
[108:06] was good for your health and immune
[108:08] system, I think he said. Um
[108:10] Like through your nose, like
[108:13] There's different, you know, there's
[108:14] different types. You can do um
[108:17] even just like
[108:19] um Come on.
[108:21] I can see you.
[108:21] I was going to say that.
[108:23] You were avoiding it.
[108:26] That'll be in the trailer.
[108:29] There's also humming like at the back of
[108:30] your throat.
[108:32] Humming like between your lips. So like
[108:35] Oh, it's such basic stuff. I mean, you
[108:36] can do that on the tube, you know, you
[108:37] can do it when
[108:40] That was going in the trailer.
[108:41] No, it's not.
[108:43] Why would that help? Why would that help
[108:45] us? I don't really actually like know
[108:47] the answer. I'm just pick I'm just
[108:49] thinking of the What can we get from
[108:51] indigenous wisdom that could help us
[108:52] now? But I guess it's something to do
[108:54] with regulating your parasympathetic
[108:56] nervous system. Ah, okay. That's
[108:58] actually what he said, yeah. Yeah.
[109:00] Yeah, now I've remembered.
[109:02] This point about um aging generally,
[109:03] longevity and aging. One of the really
[109:05] interesting things you talk about in the
[109:06] book is this idea of sort of
[109:07] psychological priming and
[109:10] psychological priming of aging.
[109:13] And that psychological priming is the
[109:15] effect that the mindset of aging has on
[109:17] our physical body. How our thoughts
[109:20] about aging affect our physical
[109:21] abilities. What I interpreted from that
[109:23] is our thoughts about aging
[109:26] have an impact on our aging.
[109:28] Yeah, so actually there's a really
[109:29] fascinating study. It's one of my
[109:31] favorite ones to talk about, which was
[109:33] um three groups of octogenarians.
[109:36] What's an octogenarian?
[109:37] People in their 80s. Okay. And one group
[109:39] was the control group, so they just
[109:41] lived like normal for a week.
[109:44] One group um had to reminisce about
[109:46] being in their 60s for most of the week
[109:49] whenever they had an opportunity to.
[109:52] And one group were actually driven to
[109:54] retrofitted versions of their homes
[109:57] that looked like what their house looked
[109:59] like 20 years ago.
[110:01] They were given newspapers dated from 20
[110:03] years ago.
[110:04] They had photos of themselves in that
[110:06] house when they were in their 60s.
[110:09] And and one of the things was they got
[110:11] there and they were they were sort of
[110:12] like, "Okay, you know, who's going to
[110:14] carry our suitcase up
[110:15] to the bedroom or whatever?" And they
[110:17] were like, "No, you're 60 now. You carry
[110:18] your own suitcase." So it literally
[110:20] started from the minute they got there
[110:22] and these little old ladies had to
[110:24] and and gentlemen had to carry their
[110:26] cases up.
[110:27] Um after 1 week
[110:31] the people in that group
[110:33] were taller
[110:35] because their their posture improved.
[110:38] They were they had better
[110:39] musculoskeletal coordination than they
[110:41] had a week before.
[110:43] In before and after photos that were
[110:45] shown to people that didn't know them,
[110:47] they were rated as younger in the 1 week
[110:49] after photos than the
[110:51] photos from arriving at that place.
[110:55] Um
[110:56] and the reminiscing group also had some
[110:59] improvements, but not as much as the
[111:00] group that lived like they were in their
[111:02] 60s.
[111:04] And so there was three groups. Yeah.
[111:06] The ones that went back and relived
[111:07] their life, the ones that reminisced,
[111:08] and the ones that did nothing at all.
[111:09] Yeah.
[111:10] Wow.
[111:11] And that really goes to show the impact
[111:12] of
[111:14] what we think about ourselves and then
[111:16] all of the physic physiological
[111:18] consequences of that. You talk about
[111:20] this
[111:21] your eyes as well. Mhm.
[111:24] About you going to get Was it like laser
[111:25] laser eye surgery or something?
[111:26] No, no. It's just like People told you
[111:28] you needed glasses or
[111:29] Well, my optician told me. So, he's um
[111:32] of Indian origin, same age as me, and he
[111:35] said, "Oh, I think you know, you're
[111:36] probably going to need reading glasses
[111:37] next year." And I was like, "No, I do
[111:39] not want reading glasses. That makes you
[111:41] look really old." And he was like,
[111:42] "Yeah, I know I know we both look
[111:44] younger than we are, but you know, your
[111:46] eyes are going to age just like anybody
[111:48] else's." And I was like, "No, they are
[111:51] not." So, I left, came back a year
[111:53] later. He said, "How's it going with the
[111:55] reading?" I said, "It's fine."
[111:57] And he sort of went, "Okay, Tara." So,
[112:00] he's doing my eye test. He spins around
[112:03] on his little chair halfway through and
[112:04] says,
[112:06] "Your eyes haven't got worse. They
[112:08] haven't even stayed the same. They've
[112:09] got better."
[112:11] And I said, "I know." And he said, "What
[112:12] have you What have you been doing?" And
[112:13] I said, "Well, I just said no to you
[112:15] when you said I'm going to have to get
[112:17] reading glasses."
[112:18] And when I'm like looking at my phone or
[112:20] a book and it feels like it would be a
[112:21] bit easier if I moved it further away, I
[112:23] just don't.
[112:26] And what what's that doing in the brain?
[112:28] Why is that Why did that improve your
[112:29] reading? Um
[112:32] Well, I hadn't experienced a problem
[112:34] with my reading, but he was obviously
[112:35] seeing the numbers slightly change. Um
[112:38] I really didn't do much more than what
[112:40] I've just said. So, it was like not
[112:41] accepting the the limitation and then
[112:43] not changing my behavior. And I think
[112:44] that's what you see from the third group
[112:46] of people, which is that
[112:49] they they had to change their behavior
[112:51] to to live like
[112:53] without any help and in a way that they
[112:56] had to when they were younger. So, that
[112:58] essentially removed the limitations that
[113:00] we impose on ourselves, which is that if
[113:02] I'm X age, it must mean that I need
[113:04] reading glasses or I need a walking
[113:06] stick or whatever it is.
[113:08] There's a kind of opposite experiment to
[113:09] that, too, which was done with
[113:11] um young medical students in Florida.
[113:15] And they had to walk between five rooms.
[113:17] And on the table were five pieces of
[113:20] paper with a word on it, and you had to
[113:21] string a sentence out of it.
[113:23] And but that wasn't the real experiment.
[113:25] They thought that was the experiment.
[113:27] The real experiment was that in one of
[113:29] the rooms, the words that were on the
[113:30] table were Florida, beach, sunshine,
[113:34] walk,
[113:36] bungalow.
[113:37] And
[113:38] all of them walked more slowly out of
[113:41] that room than any of the other rooms,
[113:43] because those words are associated with
[113:45] retirement.
[113:48] And that made them slow down. That You
[113:50] asked me, is language important in our
[113:52] to our brain? That's how important it
[113:54] is.
[113:57] So, you're saying words can change our
[113:59] behavior so quickly.
[114:00] That's what the experiment showed. I've
[114:02] been thinking a lot, you know, I said,
[114:04] I've got this vlog on YouTube called
[114:05] Behind the Diary. And in two of the
[114:07] episodes, um I've caught myself out
[114:09] while I'm filming, because I said words
[114:11] that I thought would be unhelpful. And I
[114:13] think people Someone in the comments
[114:16] actually challenged me, because there's
[114:17] one day when I'm filming Dragon's Den,
[114:19] and I'm filming myself, I'm just talking
[114:20] about what's going on, and I go, "Oh, I
[114:21] really need a coffee this morning." And
[114:22] I stop myself and say, "Mhm, I shouldn't
[114:24] say need." Mhm. And then I go, "There's
[114:26] something about this casual use of the
[114:28] word need throughout our lives that is
[114:30] disempowering me. It's making me a slave
[114:32] to the coffee." So, I make this point,
[114:34] which I'm sure people think I'm a little
[114:35] bit bit weird for making, but I should I
[114:37] really need to not say the word need
[114:38] associated to the things, because I will
[114:40] then probably develop a psychological
[114:43] um and maybe a physic like a somewhat of
[114:45] a physical need for that for that thing.
[114:47] And it just it's it's also just bringing
[114:49] that word need need into your life, like
[114:52] you don't have enough, like that you
[114:53] need something. Mhm. Um I'm constantly
[114:57] changing my words, like little you know,
[114:58] tweaking them like that. So,
[115:00] I would say,
[115:02] "Oh, I'm going to treat myself to a
[115:03] coffee." And that was your decision. You
[115:05] were powerful there. Yeah. That's a
[115:07] choice you made.
[115:08] Yeah. Is there a overarching point here
[115:10] about personal responsibility as well?
[115:12] When people talk about um
[115:14] I can't exercise um
[115:16] "I don't have any time." Mhm. It feels
[115:18] like a really disempowering
[115:21] frame versus
[115:23] "I've got other priorities." Mhm.
[115:26] Which feels empowering. And I think
[115:27] about this all the time because if you
[115:28] ask someone why they don't exercise,
[115:29] they'll typically blame on some force.
[115:32] The frame makes it seem like there's a
[115:34] force that's controlling their life for
[115:35] them that has not given them the time or
[115:38] that they could not. Whereas really it's
[115:40] just a typically case of priorities. And
[115:41] your your child or your your
[115:44] job that pays your mortgage can be your
[115:46] priority. But I think it's important
[115:48] I've always felt it's important to
[115:49] acknowledge the fact that
[115:51] you made the choice Mhm. to take care of
[115:53] your child or to go to your
[115:54] mortgage-paying job versus I didn't you
[115:57] know I didn't have any time. Yeah. This
[115:59] is why I think about language so much
[116:01] and the language that I use and how
[116:02] that's dominating my life. Even
[116:03] constantly telling myself that I'm
[116:05] unorganized. Like messy. Mhm. So,
[116:08] how that's probably making me a messy
[116:09] person.
[116:13] What have we talked about that that we
[116:15] probably should have talked about? Is
[116:16] there anything at all? Any studies or
[116:18] any insights into the brain and how we
[116:20] change habits that are stubborn?
[116:23] Um or anything else at all that you've
[116:25] learned from
[116:26] the ancient wisdom? Mhm.
[116:30] The you know I know that we've talked
[116:31] like very broadly on lots of different
[116:33] things, but I hope that with for me my
[116:36] intention with every sentence that I've
[116:38] said to you
[116:40] is that people should realize how much
[116:42] potential they have in their brains.
[116:44] Like how
[116:45] capable they are of having
[116:49] an even more amazing life than they have
[116:50] already.
[116:53] I think I accept that now more than I
[116:56] ever have before
[116:57] because I've had this conversation with
[116:59] you. I think I accept that there's so
[117:01] much untapped potential in me and that
[117:03] I'm not this kind of
[117:05] fully formed
[117:06] um rigid lump of cells. I can change
[117:10] fundamentally.
[117:12] Um I think a lot of people probably are
[117:14] if they've gotten to this point in the
[117:15] conversation will also accept that.
[117:17] If you were to close with
[117:21] I guess the step one, like the the thing
[117:24] that I should immediately do as I move
[117:25] forward in my life from here
[117:27] that would help me to start moving
[117:29] towards that person that I want to
[117:31] become
[117:32] the
[117:34] organized, great partner
[117:38] successful in his business, great with
[117:39] his podcast all of those things.
[117:42] What is that first step? And you know
[117:43] what's funny is cuz my brain keeps
[117:45] thinking about the taxi driver that I
[117:46] that I met on the way here who said he'd
[117:48] listened to the podcast and he told gave
[117:49] me a little bit of a window into his
[117:51] world. So he's driving the cab every day
[117:53] and I meet a lot of cab drivers that
[117:54] listen to the podcast and we chat. And
[117:56] often times they sometimes they they
[117:58] have dreams of doing other things. So
[118:00] they they might say to me, "You know, I
[118:01] want to start my own business one day
[118:03] and I'm just looking
[118:06] I'm looking for the first couple of
[118:07] steps. But I I reflect on what you said
[118:10] and go they're going to be so hardwired
[118:11] into their patterns
[118:13] in their jobs, in their habits, in their
[118:14] routines that it's very hard to make
[118:15] that jump. Yeah.
[118:18] So if I could give people a takeaway to
[118:20] start with that's really simple
[118:22] but it doesn't mean there isn't a lot of
[118:24] hard work at the other end of it
[118:26] it would be be very clear on what it is
[118:29] that you want.
[118:30] So you've mentioned a few things.
[118:32] Spend 5 minutes sitting down
[118:35] and visualizing those things being true
[118:39] and then give gratitude for that.
[118:41] That would be my first step.
[118:44] Give gratitude for those things being
[118:46] true.
[118:48] Just 5 minutes. I'm a great partner. I'm
[118:50] not messy. My podcast is super
[118:52] successful.
[118:54] Like see it, feel it in your body,
[118:57] taste it in your mouth, hear it in your
[118:59] ears.
[119:01] Completely immerse yourself in that for
[119:02] 5 minutes, longer if you can.
[119:05] And then just
[119:07] be so grateful for all of that.
[119:10] Essentially, what you're doing is moving
[119:12] your brain from a fear state to a trust
[119:14] state, and that is the gateway to making
[119:16] these changes.
[119:21] Thank you so much. Thank you.
[119:23] Really a thought-provoking, wonderful
[119:25] conversation, and I've learned so much,
[119:26] and you've given me so much food for
[119:28] thought.
[119:28] Thank you. And you've changed my mind on
[119:30] a lot of things in my life.
[119:31] That's a great compliment.
[119:33] and I've
[119:34] I know a few things about
[119:35] neuroplasticity because I've had guests
[119:36] here that have spoken to me about it,
[119:38] but I have a better understanding of it
[119:39] now, and I also understand, I think most
[119:41] importantly,
[119:43] the part of manifestation
[119:45] that is
[119:49] understandable through the lens of
[119:50] science, yeah, I guess.
[119:52] We have a closing tradition on this
[119:53] podcast where the last guest leaves a
[119:54] question for the next guest, not knowing
[119:56] who they're going to leave it for. Oh.
[119:59] This question
[120:02] is
[120:05] what could you choose to change
[120:09] and choose to feel great about?
[120:12] The same thing. That's what the question
[120:14] question says, what could you choose to
[120:15] change and choose to feel great about?
[120:18] Um
[120:19] I assume it's the same thing.
[120:20] Mhm.
[120:22] I could finally realize my dream of
[120:24] feeling like I am truly a creative
[120:27] person,
[120:28] and
[120:30] I'm not exactly sure what that would
[120:32] look how that would look yet, but I'm on
[120:35] the path to it, so I think getting
[120:38] clearer on that
[120:39] um
[120:41] would feel great, and actually doing it
[120:43] would also feel great.
[120:45] You are already a creative person,
[120:46] though.
[120:48] Thank you so much for saying that. I
[120:50] feel like I have one more step to go
[120:52] before I
[120:53] really feel that I've done that because
[120:54] that was such a
[120:56] a deep-seated thing for me. I mean,
[120:58] there's a bit more of a backstory to it,
[121:00] which I didn't give you, but my English
[121:02] teacher said to me, "You are so good at
[121:05] drama.
[121:06] You should read English at Oxford and go
[121:08] to Rada."
[121:10] And I came home and told my parents, and
[121:13] they literally said,
[121:14] "Over over my dad said, "Over my dead
[121:16] dead body.
[121:17] You'll go to medical school, and then
[121:19] after that, you can do whatever you
[121:20] want."
[121:21] And so,
[121:23] I think there is that frustration in
[121:25] there that's been in there for a long
[121:26] time. Like, these days, you can't
[121:28] imagine anything better than your kid
[121:30] coming home and one of the teachers
[121:32] having picked them out as exceptional.
[121:34] Um
[121:35] But, of course, at that time, there were
[121:37] no brown people on TV.
[121:39] So, it was seen as an even bigger risk
[121:41] than than it would be now. And
[121:43] I have to say, you know, every time I
[121:45] see
[121:46] someone that looks like me who's like
[121:48] made it as an actress, I just I it makes
[121:50] me so happy. Um
[121:53] So,
[121:55] Why did your father say that?
[121:57] I think that Indian parents, you know,
[121:59] they they think that stability is the
[122:01] key to happiness for their children. So,
[122:03] having a stable career,
[122:05] having a regular salary. I don't really
[122:07] come from a family of entrepreneurs,
[122:09] which is why it was so crazy when I gave
[122:10] up my job and started up a business. No
[122:12] one could understand it.
[122:14] Um And I was afraid of not having a
[122:17] regular paycheck.
[122:19] And then at some point, I realized
[122:22] I could earn zero in any one month, but
[122:24] I could also, well,
[122:26] you know, I could There's no There's no
[122:27] limit to what I could earn. And I think
[122:29] this realization came when in one month,
[122:31] I invoiced what I was earning in a year
[122:32] as a doctor.
[122:36] Didn't they think you were your
[122:37] grandmother reincarnated?
[122:39] Mhm.
[122:40] And she grew up in a village in India
[122:42] and didn't have access to education, and
[122:44] that was a big regret of hers.
[122:46] So, I was given, you know,
[122:48] the best education that money could buy.
[122:52] Got an MD and a PhD. It's like it's
[122:54] overcompensation, and it wasn't really
[122:56] necessarily what I ever wanted.
[123:00] Thank you so much. You've given me so
[123:01] much to think about. What a wonderful
[123:02] conversation, what a wonderful ray of
[123:04] sunshine and light you are in the world.
[123:06] I'm so excited to see your your career
[123:08] continue to evolve and touch so many
[123:10] more people. Um all of your work is
[123:12] incredible. You've got your podcast
[123:14] coming up as well, which I think
[123:15] everyone's going to be super excited to
[123:16] hear about, because if it's anything
[123:18] like this conversation, it's going to be
[123:19] of tremendous tremendous value.
[123:21] Um when is that when is that going to be
[123:23] out?
[123:23] It's launching on October 4th, but
[123:25] season 1 is already available to listen
[123:26] to if people haven't
[123:28] listened to it already. Reinvent
[123:29] yourself with Dr. Tara. Yeah.
[123:33] Which is the second season, which is in
[123:35] that second season you're aiming to do a
[123:36] lot of the ancient wisdom
[123:38] stuff. So exciting. Really really
[123:40] excited to hear that. So, October 4th,
[123:42] we'll look out for that. Thank you so
[123:43] much for your time. Um Thank you.
[123:46] Dr. Tara
[123:48] Swart.
[123:50] There's actually the word art in your
[123:51] name. Oh, that's so cute.
[123:54] But there is. Have you ever noticed
[123:55] that?
[123:55] No.
[123:57] Okay. Well, I'm I'm excited for our next
[123:59] conversation and to hear about how
[124:00] you've pursued that creativity, because
[124:02] it's certainly within you. Um and it's
[124:04] such a wonderful honor to have met you
[124:06] today and to learn from you. Thank you.
[124:07] much. Thank you.
