Michigan and the American Civil War: A Conversation with Historian Jack Dempsey

密歇根州与美国内战：对话历史学家杰克·登普西 历史学家杰克·登普西探讨了密歇根州在维护联邦统一和废除奴隶制方面发挥的关键作用，回顾了该州从在杰克逊建立共和党，到在内战各大主要战区浴血奋战的历程。他重点强调了多支部队的重要贡献，例如美国第102有色人种步兵团、乔治·阿姆斯特朗·卡斯特麾下的密歇根骑兵旅，以及俘获杰斐逊·戴维斯的密歇根第四骑兵团。登普西还审视了大后方不可或缺的付出、战时州长奥斯汀·布莱尔的激进政治主张，以及战后纪念碑和退伍军人权益倡导在塑造现代密歇根州中所留下的深远遗产。 密歇根州在1860年拥有75万人口，期间动员了约9万名士兵，其中1.4万至1.5万人阵亡——相当于每六名入伍士兵中就有一人牺牲。 (31:32) 该州构成了反奴隶制政治的基石，其基础包括1787年的《西北法令》、1854年7月共和党在杰克逊的成立，以及州长奥斯汀·布莱尔在战时推行的进步政策。 (8:41) 密歇根州军队参战足迹遍及所有主要战区，其中突出的战绩包括乔治·阿姆斯特朗·卡斯特率领的密歇根骑兵旅在葛底斯堡的战斗，以及密歇根第四骑兵团于1865年5月俘获邦联总统杰斐逊·戴维斯。 (44:49) 美国第102有色人种步兵团曾深入美国深南部参与激烈战斗（包括霍尼希尔战役），由于邦联拒绝向黑人士兵提供战俘保护待遇，他们承受了极大的危险。 (78:03)

Historian Jack Dempsey argues that Michigan's political, ideological, and military contributions to the American Civil War proved essential to preserving the Union and reshaping national ideals of equality. Rooted in the Northwest Ordinance and anti-slavery politics, the state mobilized massive volunteer regiments and critical resources that altered the course and meaning of the conflict. Political Foundations and the Antislavery Vanguard (8:41) Michigan's stance during the Civil War reflected its foundational prohibition of involuntary servitude under the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. Although the state had previously leaned Democratic under Lewis Cass and his popular sovereignty doctrine, the passage of the Kansas-Nebraska Act in 1854 disrupted the national balance of power. In response, a coalition of Whigs, Free Soilers, and independent anti-slavery factions convened in Jackson, Michigan, in July 1854 to establish the Republican Party. By 1860, the state transitioned into a solid Republican stronghold, electing Lincoln with 57% of the vote and repeating its support with 56.6% in 1864. This political resolve was mirrored by wartime leaders such as Governor Austin Blair, dubbed Michigan's 'War Governor' and a self-described radical. Blair exhausted personal resources while advocating for total abolition, Black suffrage, women's voting rights, and the abolition of capital punishment, framing the conflict not merely as a fight to restore national borders, but to fulfill the Declaration of Independence's promise of equal human rights. Military Mobilization and Battlefield Impact (31:32) When hostilities erupted at Fort Sumter in April 1861, initial domestic ambivalence dissolved into an overwhelming volunteer response. Out of a population of roughly 750,000, approximately 90,000 Michiganders served across every theater of the war, fielding 30 infantry and 13 cavalry regiments. The human toll was severe: an estimated 14,000 to 15,000 soldiers died from combat and camp diseases, representing approximately one out of every six who served. Michigan units played key operational roles across both theaters. Under Brigadier General George Armstrong Custer, the Michigan Cavalry Brigade turned back Confederate cavalry at Gettysburg and fought through the Appomattox campaign. In the West, the 4th Michigan Cavalry captured fleeing Confederate President Jefferson Davis in Georgia in May 1865. Specialized outfits such as the 17th Michigan Infantry—dubbed the 'Stonewall Regiment' at South Mountain—and the Michigan Engineers and Mechanics provided critical combat power and logistics, while University of Michigan alumni and faculty took up commands and militia roles. Black Soldiers and Diverse Wartime Mobilization (21:56) Before the war, Michigan served as a critical terminal for the Underground Railroad, ferrying self-emancipated individuals across the Detroit River into Canadian safety, illustrated by figures like William Dollarson. Despite facing local racial hostility—including a violent anti-Black riot in Detroit in 1863—Michigan’s African American population mobilized over 1,400 men to form the 1st Michigan Colored Infantry, later designated the 102nd United States Colored Troops (USCT). Deploying directly into combat in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, the 102nd USCT faced intense combat at engagements like the Battle of Honey Hill under the threat of Confederate non-POW retaliation. Michigan's diversity in uniform also extended to Company K of the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters, composed of Native Americans who served despite lacking recognized citizenship, as well as several women who secretly enlisted in uniform to take up arms. The Home Front and Waterway Logistics (48:20) With a large share of the eligible male population deployed, Michigan women stepped into essential roles managing farms, family finances, and municipal work, challenging traditional domestic restrictions and providing reporting from Washington. Michigan’s agrarian output functioned as a vital breadbasket sustaining Union field armies, while its Upper Peninsula supplied essential iron and copper deposits mined for ordnance and armaments. Because the state lacked adequate road networks and bridges in the 1860s, Great Lakes waterways served as vital transit corridors to transport troops and raw materials toward Buffalo and eastern rail systems. The northern border also drew Confederate covert operations, culminating in an 1864 hijack plot on Lake Erie designed to raid the Union military prison camp at Johnson's Island off Sandusky, Ohio, which Union authorities thwarted before prisoners could be liberated. Commemoration and Postwar Impact (2:58) Following the surrender at Appomattox and Abraham Lincoln's assassination, returning Union veterans emerged as a powerful, organized voting constituency that successfully lobbied for comprehensive disability and service pensions. This political energy was matched by public memorialization, including the Michigan Soldiers' and Sailors' Monument in Detroit, statues dedicated to leaders like Governor Blair and General Alpheus S. Williams, and the monument at the Andersonville prison stockade honoring troops who starved in captivity. Dempsey notes that while battles such as Gettysburg capture popular attention, the tactical victory at Antietam served as the critical turning point that enabled Lincoln's preliminary Emancipation Proclamation. This led the Michigan Civil War Association to rectify historic omissions by funding and erecting a permanent state monument at the Antietam battlefield, cementing Michigan's legacy in transforming the war into an enduring fight for universal liberty. Dempsey concludes that Michigan's Civil War sacrifices established the foundational strength and democratic precedent of the modern United States, preventing fragmentation and establishing that minority factions cannot dissolve democratic governance after losing an election.

历史学家杰克·登普西指出，密歇根州在美国内战中发挥了兼具意识形态堡垒与军事支柱的关键作用；联邦的存续不仅确立了现代美国民主的基石，其战时动员与战后纪念也深刻重塑了该州的政治与社会面貌。 内战的核心意义与密歇根的反奴隶制政治根基 (5:22) 登普西认为，内战维系了国家统一并兑现了《独立宣言》关于人人平等的承诺，避免了北美大陆分裂为相互争斗的割裂国家或建立种族隔离制度。他同时指出，若允许南部脱离，将形成国家不断分裂的危险先例；而一个统一且工业化的合众国，后来成为赢得二战的关键力量。早在建州之前，1787年的《西北土地法令》即明确禁止强迫劳役，奠定了密歇根的自由土壤。1854年领地“人民主权”原则打破了长期维持的南北参议院势力平衡，激发了反扩张力量的强烈反弹。同年7月，各路反奴隶制团体在密歇根州杰克逊集会创建了共和党，迅速扭转了由刘易斯·卡斯主导的民主党政治基本盘。在1860年与1864年的总统大选中，密歇根州分别以57%和56.6%的选票坚定支持林肯，确立了其支持联邦统一与废除奴隶制的政治立场。 全州军事动员规模与惨重的生命代价 (31:32) 在南方军队炮轰萨姆特堡后，林肯号召各州组织志愿兵。密歇根州当时总人口约75万，但在四年战争期间动员了约9万名士兵参军，占符合条件适龄男性的极大比例。登普西根据统计指出，约有1.4万至1.5万名密歇根士兵未能归乡，相当于每六名参战者中就有一人因战死、伤重或军营疾病丧生。考虑到19世纪军中失踪、逃脱后归队及战地医院转运缺乏精准记录，官方数字很可能低估了实际伤亡。为直观呈现这场损耗，登普西将其比作现代可容纳约10万人的密歇根体育场清空了整整六分之一的座席；若按该州现代1000万人口等比例推算，动员规模将达100万人，死亡人数将达14万至15万人。该州战时州长奥斯汀·布莱尔展现了极高的道德操守，不仅在任内倾尽个人家产支持战争开支，还长期主张黑人选举权、女性参政权并推动废除死刑，战后离任时个人财务状况甚至比当选前更为困窘。 关键战役建树与多元作战群体的殊死奋战 (41:41) 密歇根部队在东西两大战场均担任前锋。密歇根第1步兵团历经了从第一次公牛河战役至阿波马托克斯受降的全程战事；由乔治·阿姆斯特朗·卡斯特率领的密歇根骑兵旅在葛底斯堡挫败了南军骑兵将领斯图尔特的突袭；密歇根第4骑兵团则在战争尾声的佐治亚州成功追捕了企图潜逃的联盟国总统杰斐逊·戴维斯。工兵与机械兵团则成为二战工程兵的早期雏形。在安提坦战役中，密歇根部队的浴血奋战促成了战术胜利，直接为林肯发布《解放黑人奴隶初步宣言》提供了政治合法性。此外，密歇根第17步兵团在南山战役中因强攻石墙防线而赢得“石墙团”的美誉。在非传统战斗人员方面，由未享有公民权的美国原住民组成的密歇根第1神枪手团K连表现英勇；密歇根有色人种第1步兵团（后编为第102联邦有色人种步兵团）开赴深南部，在霍尼希尔战役等残酷战斗中面对被俘即遭处决或重新奴役的极端威胁，依然顽强作战。 地下铁道网络、本土危机与后方女性角色的转变 (19:20) 在内战爆发前，密歇根州就是地下铁道通往加拿大的关键通道，逃亡黑人威廉·道勒森在成功抵达成先后，在底特律担任向导护送他人越境。尽管本土远离南方主战场，密歇根仍遭遇了复杂的内部与边境挑战：1863年底特律发生反黑人暴乱；1864年，联盟国同谋者在伊利湖劫持客轮，企图袭击桑达斯基外海约翰逊岛的联邦战俘营以解救被俘军官，最终被当局挫败。在战争期间，由于大量男性劳动力奔赴前线，妇女全面接管了农场耕作、家庭开支管理、商业机构与文职岗位，部分女性甚至伪装性别直接入伍参战，另有女性担任战地记者或出版回忆录，永久性地打破了女性仅局限于家庭私人领域的传统社会结构。 战后老兵政治影响力、创伤纪念与工业化飞跃 (57:15) 林肯遇刺后，曾于葛底斯堡遭受惨重伤亡的密歇根第24步兵团被选为林肯斯普林菲尔德葬礼的官方军事仪仗队。战后数万名复员士兵联合组成以共和党为核心的政治同盟，推动了庞大的退役军人抚恤金法案。密歇根士兵的战俘苦难不仅体现在安德森维尔恶劣战俘营中的高死亡率，还在战后遣返途中因“苏丹娜号”蒸汽船锅炉爆炸事故而加剧。遍布底特律战友纪念碑、安德森维尔阵亡士兵雕像以及各城镇缴获火炮的公共纪念设施，持续警示着和平的代价。战伤救治需求客观上推动了战地外科学与正规医学标准的快速建立，并深化了以密歇根大学为代表的现代医疗科研体系。依托丰富的铁铜矿水运网络及《莫里尔土地法案》等联邦政策的推动，密歇根州在战后数十年内完成了由农业边疆向现代化工业重镇的飞速转型。 本场讲座通过对密歇根州内战经历的系统考察，强调了该州在维护国家统一和消灭奴隶制中所承担的巨大牺牲与制度贡献。主讲人指出，尽管当前各地围绕内战人物塑像与纪念形式存在语境争议，但正视这一历史遗产对于理解当代美国民主制度的存续与宪法公民权利的扩展仍具有不可或缺的现实意义。

[26:00] Jack Dempsey: When there's a vote in a democracy, the majority wins. The minority doesn't get to take their ball and go home. [2:58] Jack Dempsey: Gettysburg gets all the attention, but Antietam is the battle that really changed the course of the war, because five days after the battle, President Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation.

[0:00] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Welcome to "Making Michigan," [0:02] the Bentley Historical Library series on the history [0:05] of the University of Michigan. [0:07] I'm Andrew Rutledge, the Bentley's in-house historian, [0:10] and I'm very pleased to welcome you all this evening, either [0:13] in person or virtually, to the historic Judy and Stanley [0:16] Frankel Detroit Observatory, a division of the Bentley. [0:20] I'd also like to extend a special welcome this evening [0:22] to all of the U of M alumni who have joined us [0:25] and want to thank the Alumni Association of the University [0:27] of Michigan's Lifelong Learning program [0:29] for co-sponsoring this program. [0:32] I'd also like to thank the University [0:33] of Michigan's US at 250 initiative [0:39] for also supporting tonight's event. [0:41] Thank you all for joining us on what's really not [0:43] the nicest Thursday evening. [0:46] But this evening, I think we really have a very interesting [0:48] and exciting conversation, because this year, [0:51] the United States is celebrating 2 and 1/2 centuries since it [0:55] declared its independence and became an independent new [0:57] nation. [0:59] But that nature of that nation, and in particular, [1:01] that vital question, to steal directly [1:03] from Abraham Lincoln, of whether such a nation could [1:06] endure permanently half-slave and half-free, [1:09] remained undecided. [1:11] And the answer to that question, thankfully, [1:13] was definitively no, it could not long remain. [1:16] But it required four years of terrible bloodshed [1:19] to decide just what sort of nation [1:21] the United States would be. [1:23] And that Civil War not only ended slavery [1:25] in the United States, but fundamentally changed [1:28] America in innumerable ways that still echo today socially, [1:32] politically, economically, culturally, and probably [1:35] a bunch of other ways. [1:37] And the young state of Michigan played a vital role [1:40] in the Union's victory in that war, [1:42] both on and off the battlefield. [1:44] And the memories of that conflict [1:45] echoed long after the guns fell silent. [1:49] Here this evening to talk with us [1:50] about that conflict and its many legacies in Michigan [1:53] is historian Jack Dempsey. [1:55] Jack is an award-winning author who [1:56] has written 11 books, uncountable articles, [2:00] and innumerable talks to academic and general audiences, [2:03] as well as serving as president of the Michigan Historical [2:06] Commission and the Michigan Civil War Association. [2:08] He has a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science [2:10] from Michigan State University, which is OK, [2:13] we'll allow that, and a law degree from George Washington [2:16] University. [2:17] Please join me in welcoming Jack Dempsey. [2:20] JACK DEMPSEY: Thanks. [2:21] [APPLAUSE] [2:24] Thanks for that introduction, I think. [2:27] [LAUGHTER] [2:28] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: We don't play Michigan State in football [2:30] for a month or something, so it's fine. [2:32] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, I have to answer this because my parents, [2:35] as you know, both graduated from Michigan, one with a PhD [2:39] and the other one with a degree that she then forfeited [2:42] when I was born. [2:45] And then my son graduated from here with two degrees. [2:48] So actually, I say I spent more money here [2:50] in Ann Arbor for college tuition than I did at Michigan State. [2:55] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Well, welcome back. [2:57] JACK DEMPSEY: Thank you. [2:58] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So I want to just open [2:59] asking, what is the Michigan Civil War Association? [3:05] JACK DEMPSEY: It is a nonprofit, 501(c)3 founded in 2013, [3:11] so in the middle of the sesquicentennial of the Civil [3:15] War, to do further work to establish, [3:21] educate people about the legacy of Michigan in the Civil War [3:25] and around the Civil War. [3:27] It originated from us being asked at the Michigan Historical [3:32] Commission to do a commemoration of Michigan's role [3:36] at the Battle of Antietam in September of 1862, [3:42] a battle that for many years has been overlooked. [3:45] Gettysburg gets all the attention, [3:48] but Antietam is the battle that really changed [3:52] the course of the war, because five days after the battle, [3:56] President Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation [3:59] Proclamation, and that declared that people who [4:04] were enslaved on and after January 1 [4:08] would be thence forever freed. [4:14] And so without that proclamation, [4:16] we wouldn't have had emancipation on January 1. [4:19] Without the victory of the Union forces at Antietam on September [4:23] 17 of 1862, there would not have been a reason to issue it [4:28] or a basis for its issuance. [4:30] So you can draw a direct line from the battle, the outcome, [4:34] to emancipation. [4:36] And Michigan played a key role there. [4:38] But unlike Gettysburg and other battlefields [4:41] and other locations, there's nothing that commemorates [4:45] Michigan's role there. [4:46] There's no monument. [4:48] So several of us Civil War nut cases decided, [4:55] let's see if we can try to rectify that. [4:58] And so it's been a long effort, and we're still [5:00] working on erecting a monument to Michigan's role [5:04] there in Sharpsburg, Maryland, Western Maryland, [5:07] to this really seminal victory on the part of Union forces [5:11] that changed the war from merely one [5:13] to restore the Union, which was a great purpose, [5:16] but also to end slavery in America. [5:22] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So I want to talk a little more [5:24] about Antietam later. [5:24] But the question I have is, you talked about the 150th [5:29] anniversary, creating a Memorial at Antietam, [5:32] but that leads to a larger question-- [5:36] why study, why commemorate the Civil War now? [5:40] JACK DEMPSEY: So I understood your question, Andrew, [5:43] because you asked it to me in English. [5:46] But for an America that emerged from the Civil War [5:50] and became an industrial powerhouse, [5:53] became an international force that [5:56] was the real winner of the two-ocean war between 1941 [6:01] and 1945, without America's role in World War II, [6:06] we'd probably be speaking a romance language [6:08] or some other language because it was that united nation that [6:14] then emerged as, as I said, the powerhouse that [6:18] was able to effectuate victory in World War II. [6:22] If we ended up with two different nations [6:25] at the end of the Civil War, and perhaps more after that-- [6:28] because if you validate the ability of one [6:32] part of the country to partition itself, secede from the Union, [6:36] why can't others? [6:38] Here in Michigan, people up in the UP [6:39] have talked about seceding for many years-- with justification, [6:44] I might add. [6:44] [LAUGHTER] [6:46] But I don't want them to secede succeed. [6:48] I want this to be one Michigan. [6:50] And also this idea about liberation and emancipation [6:55] and fulfilling the great language, the great message, [7:02] the great theme of the Declaration of Independence-- [7:04] all men, all people are created equal, endowed by their creator [7:08] with inalienable rights. [7:11] These are rights that cannot be taken away. [7:13] They're not given to you by a king. [7:15] They're not given to you by a government. [7:17] It's just the other way around. [7:18] Government is created to protect those rights. [7:21] So that's what the Union, the United States of America, [7:24] the Constitution was all about. [7:27] And so if that had been jettisoned [7:31] as a result of the outcome of the war, [7:33] what would America be like today? [7:35] Would there be one America? [7:36] Would there be multiple Americas? [7:38] Or would there be a society that still had many parts of it, [7:44] like South Africa had just in the near past with apartheid, [7:49] and so forth? [7:50] So I think without the Civil War, [7:52] the second American Revolution, so to speak, [7:55] we would not be sitting here today talking like we are. [7:59] And that's why we have to venerate, I believe, [8:03] those who made those sacrifices for us so that we could [8:06] sit here, we could talk about this in freedom, with liberty. [8:10] And that's why I've been interested in this whole thing [8:13] since I was a wee lad, literally, [8:18] before, certainly in the third grade. [8:21] I've been interested in it ever since. [8:25] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: It's really hard to argue with any of that. [8:28] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] See, I was a lawyer once, [8:30] and I have conclusive arguments. [8:32] Thank you for coming. [8:33] [LAUGHTER] [8:34] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I've been very much told no lawyer questions, [8:37] so we'll not talk about legal issues during the war too much. [8:41] But understanding the Civil War you [8:45] have to understand how it came about. [8:47] And so I want to talk about, it did not just start in 1861. [8:52] It was very clearly being built up [8:55] since the Declaration of Independence, if not before. [8:58] But events really seemed to escalate in the 1850s. [9:02] Could you talk a little about what happened in that decade, [9:05] and then maybe we could turn to Michigan in that period? [9:09] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [9:09] So there was the issue of when a community, a potential state, [9:17] applied for admission into the Union, [9:19] would that state come into the Union [9:21] as a free state or a slave state? [9:25] And because there was a balance of power dating back [9:28] to the origin of the country, it became the practice, really, [9:32] to admit a duality so that there would not be an imbalance, so [9:37] that the free states could not overpower the slave states [9:40] and vice versa. [9:42] But in 1854, a proposal was offered [9:47] to allow each territory to decide that, [9:50] and that would be conclusive on Congress. [9:52] So no more would there be this duality. [9:56] Plus, there was kind of an unspoken principle [10:01] that a state above a certain latitude or longitude [10:05] would not be amenable to slavery. [10:08] So that threw everything out the window. [10:10] And those who were against slavery but were tolerating it, [10:15] really got angry and swung into action. [10:21] So in 1854, here in Jackson, a group [10:26] of people from different political parties [10:29] got together and formed a fusion party, [10:32] and they called it the Republican Party. [10:35] So Wisconsin claims that it was the birthplace, [10:37] but we know what cheeseheads are all about, [10:41] so we clearly know it originated here. [10:44] We have markers, and if you see a state historical marker, [10:47] you know it must be true. [10:48] But that's really what happened, is it was a quiescent issue, [10:52] it was tolerated more or less. [10:55] But in the middle of the 1850s it came to the fore. [10:58] And now you had a party dedicated to the proposition [11:01] that slavery should not be extended, [11:04] it should not go into the territories west of Mississippi, [11:08] like Kansas. [11:10] Kansas should be a free state. [11:12] Well, that resulted in violence because pro-slavery advocates [11:16] went into that state to try to control [11:18] the outcome of its admission. [11:20] And then violence broke out. [11:22] And so things really went downhill. [11:25] There was violence in Congress between members [11:27] who disagreed on this. [11:29] And then John Brown famously led a revolt or insurrection [11:34] that captured a federal property in Harper's Ferry, Virginia, [11:38] to try to motivate those who were enslaved [11:42] to fight for their freedom. [11:44] It didn't go anywhere. [11:45] He was captured with his followers right away [11:48] and executed for treason to Virginia, which is interesting. [11:52] I don't think he was a citizen. [11:53] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: He was not a citizen from there. [11:54] JACK DEMPSEY: No, he was not a citizen of Virginia, [11:56] but he was convicted of that. [11:58] So that was kind of a rallying cry. [12:00] And out of that came the presidential contest in 1860, [12:05] where you had the first real, I would [12:07] say, viable Republican candidate for president-- [12:10] Abraham Lincoln. [12:12] And the Democrats split. [12:14] They had three different candidates. [12:15] So they split their own supporters into groups, [12:19] and Lincoln won. [12:21] So what had happened ever since the founding of the country [12:24] was-- the election happens, the electoral college meets, there's [12:29] a tally, and then the president gets sworn in, right? [12:35] Well, as soon as the election results were announced, [12:38] South Carolina held a convention, [12:41] and a number of leaders there decided [12:44] we're not going to be part of the Union anymore. [12:46] We know what's going to happen. [12:47] Lincoln's going to come into office, [12:49] slavery is going to be done, which was a huge jump, [12:53] because it's not clear how he could do that [12:55] under the Constitution. [12:57] But they seceded. [12:59] Other states followed. [13:00] And so by the inauguration of Lincoln in March of '61, [13:04] you have a number of states forming [13:07] a Confederacy of slave states designed [13:10] to protect slavery and have their own nation. [13:14] That's where Michigan is on the other side of the fence. [13:19] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I read somewhere-- [13:20] and I really feel bad I can't remember who said it-- [13:22] who described South Carolina as too small to be a nation, too [13:26] large to be an insane asylum. [13:27] [LAUGHTER] [13:28] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [13:29] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: But if we can backtrack [13:31] just a little chronologically. [13:33] So you said the Republican Party was founded here [13:36] in Michigan in Jackson in 1854. [13:39] Why Michigan? [13:40] Why did they meet here? [13:41] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, that's a good question, [13:43] because historically it was more or less a Democratic Party [13:48] state. [13:48] And the leader of that was Lewis Cass. [13:52] He was the most-- [13:53] there you go-- the most famous Michigander, really. [13:56] In fact, "Michigander" was a term that Abraham Lincoln coined [14:00] with regard to Cass kind of to denigrate him as some [14:03] goose/gander figure. [14:07] I love that term though, because it's Lincolnian. [14:09] So I am a Michigander. [14:11] And Cass also really was the founder [14:13] of this popular sovereignty doctrine, [14:16] that let's let the territories decide if they [14:18] want to be slave or free. [14:19] So, Cass, the Democrats really run Michigan up [14:22] until about 1850 or so, and then you [14:26] have this disaffection with him, the idea [14:31] that slavery is permissible in this country, this nation. [14:35] And so people from different groups, Free Soilers, [14:39] Whigs come together and they found this new party. [14:44] And that is related to the Underground [14:46] Railroad and this whole heritage of freedom in Michigan. [14:50] Because of the 1787 Northwest Ordinance [14:54] under which Michigan got organized [14:56] as a territory, as did Ohio and so forth, [15:00] there was a prohibition on involuntary servitude [15:03] in our founding and then in our original Constitution. [15:08] So from the start, even though we [15:10] did have slavery in Michigan because [15:12] of French and British antecedents, [15:16] this was a state founded on the principle [15:19] that there will not be slavery authorized in this state. [15:24] So that Free Soil heritage really grew and grew. [15:27] And as more people came into Michigan in the 1830s, [15:32] '40s, and '50s from other free states, [15:35] that heritage grew and blossomed. [15:38] The Erie Canal had a lot to do with that, [15:40] so that's something we might mention. [15:42] The population of Michigan in 1830, I believe it was 30,000. [15:48] And by 1860, it's 750,000. [15:53] So that's not all generated out of natural birth. [15:55] That's a lot of immigration, [LAUGHS] [15:58] and that whole heritage. [15:59] And people and leaders came from other states [16:02] to Michigan, because this was a place [16:04] they could be assured to announce [16:06] their views against slavery and to help escapees [16:10] from slavery through the Underground Railroad. [16:12] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: OK, well, you gave me a great opening [16:15] to my next question, then. [16:16] So what was Michigan socially, economically in the 1850s? [16:22] So it sounds like it's really growing. [16:24] But this is, of course, way before the automobile Industrial [16:27] Revolution. [16:28] So what was Michigan like in that period? [16:30] JACK DEMPSEY: It was very rural mostly, very farm agrarian, [16:34] mostly, population, mostly down here in the southern tier [16:38] of counties. [16:39] If you went north to, say, Lansing-- very sparsely [16:43] populated. [16:44] The Upper Peninsula not yet really widely known [16:48] for its natural resources, but that's [16:51] something that's developed during the war, [16:53] as copper and iron become very important to a war effort. [16:58] So you could almost look to the Civil War [17:01] as the reason why the UP first gains its economic strength, [17:07] such as it has been. [17:08] So it's agrarian. [17:10] It's split pretty equally between men and women. [17:14] We do have some institutions like the university here. [17:17] But by and large, it's still in development. [17:20] And Detroit itself is a very small city. [17:24] By 1860, I believe it's less than 50,000, [17:29] or 50,000 approximately, if I remember right. [17:31] And then most of the people that end up enlisting in the war [17:36] are not autoworkers. [17:39] They're not working on a line. [17:41] They're from farms. [17:42] They're from occupations that are not urban, so to speak. [17:50] There are office workers and so forth, [17:51] but it's mostly an agrarian place. [17:54] And Michigan does become part of the feeding apparatus [17:59] to sustain the armies by growing crops [18:02] and sending them to soldiers at the front. [18:06] I hope that helps. [18:07] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: No, it does. [18:08] And I always find myself when anybody's [18:10] talking about populations, comparing that [18:12] to Michigan Stadium. [18:14] So it's kind of crazy to think that the entire population [18:17] of Detroit would barely fill half of Michigan's football [18:20] stadium. [18:22] It's not a big place. [18:23] JACK DEMPSEY: It's not a big place. [18:25] And in 1860, if I recall correctly, [18:29] it's been moving from 20th of the 26 or 27 states, [18:35] up to 16th to 13th. [18:36] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: In population? [18:38] JACK DEMPSEY: Population of the states. [18:40] And so it's growing, and growing a little faster [18:43] than some other states, which is understandable. [18:45] Delaware-- obviously a very geographically limited state. [18:49] But it continues to grow. [18:50] And I think by 1900, it's in the top 10 states in the Union. [18:55] And this is because, I would argue, this heritage of freedom, [19:00] of liberty. [19:01] You can come here, you can buy land, you can launch a career, [19:07] you can find opportunities. [19:10] And it's all because of this heritage of liberty [19:13] that dates way back to the same year [19:16] that the Constitution is being drafted in Philadelphia. [19:18] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Building on that theme, [19:20] you mentioned the Underground Railroad in Michigan. [19:24] Can you talk a little more about that? [19:26] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [19:28] We are an Underground Railroad heritage state. [19:31] We've had a commission to try to commemorate [19:34] that for a number of years. [19:37] We have sites. [19:37] There's a site here in Ann Arbor. [19:39] And it's hard to document these sites because these [19:41] are where people who were helping the self-emancipated who [19:48] were putting themselves at risk. [19:50] This is a crime, federal crime, typically. [19:54] And so you didn't really want to hang a shingle out front saying, [19:58] "Underground Railroad haven." [20:01] And it also would, I suppose, lead slave catchers [20:04] right to the door of where someone's trying to escape. [20:08] So there were routes through Michigan, [20:10] and largely because of Detroit being on the border with Canada, [20:13] with the river. [20:14] All you have to do is cross that river, [20:16] if you can figure out how to do it, [20:17] and you're in another country. [20:19] And Canada did not extradite previously enslaved people back [20:24] to the US. [20:25] So great opportunity to make your way to freedom [20:29] through Michigan with people helping [20:31] all along the southern tier of counties [20:33] and here in Washtenaw County as well, and all [20:36] the way to Plymouth, where I live, and then to Detroit. [20:39] And one of the people I've written about [20:41] is an amazing individual. [20:42] His name is William Dollarson. [20:44] He was a slave in Virginia. [20:47] He was sold down to New Orleans, then put [20:50] on a horrendous plantation in Natchez, Mississippi, [20:54] escaped up the Mississippi River, ended up in Detroit, [20:58] and became a conductor on the Underground Railroad, [21:01] helping people who got to his locale [21:06] to escape over to Windsor. [21:09] And he's an individual who served [21:12] in the military in the Civil War, not in a uniform, [21:16] but as part of a general's staff. [21:19] And so he came full circle, through Michigan, [21:22] to the battlefront, until some of his comrades said, [21:27] "What are you doing? [21:29] You're here in Virginia. [21:30] If you're captured in the next battle, [21:33] you won't go to a prison camp. [21:35] You'll either be enslaved again or--" so he came back [21:38] to Detroit. [21:39] And it's a great story. [21:41] And it kind of, I think, typifies [21:42] the environment, the locale that Detroit [21:47] was, that Michigan was in terms of helping people [21:50] to the same level of liberty that the rest of us [21:53] had who were not enslaved at that time. [21:56] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Was there much of [21:57] an African-American population in the state in that period? [22:00] JACK DEMPSEY: No, there wasn't. [22:03] And there were some who were born free, [22:06] and some who had escaped here, and some communities that [22:09] were harmonious, and then in Detroit, just [22:13] like for many years afterwards, an enclave of African heritage [22:19] folks who ended up in the middle of the war [22:22] in the midst of a riot because of people who blamed them [22:26] for the war. [22:28] Well, they then were allowed to actually serve [22:31] for the first time officially in a US Army uniform. [22:36] And so we did have a large regiment of Black troops [22:41] that were recruited here in Michigan [22:43] that went off to the front. [22:45] In fact, they went to the Deep South. [22:47] And if that isn't bravery, I don't know [22:49] what is, because that's the-- [22:53] I don't know-- the breadbasket of slavery or something, [22:56] where it's so far away, it's hard to make your way back [22:58] to freedom. [23:00] And they fought in actions against Confederates. [23:03] And some were killed in battle. [23:05] Many died of disease, sacrificed just like other Americans. [23:11] And it's quite an experience to go to a national battlefield [23:15] cemetery in, say Beaufort, South Carolina, [23:19] and walk among the tombstones, and see people, men, [23:25] from Michigan, who are buried there under a United States [23:29] Colored Troops marker. [23:32] And to think that these men fought, [23:38] died for me, for me today, for me born in 1952, [23:43] so that I could have the same freedom. [23:46] I mean, it just sends tingles up the back of my spine [23:49] just talking about it right now. [23:51] So this heritage of Blacks fighting for freedom [23:55] is part of Michigan's history, and one that really we [23:58] should appreciate, just like any other aspect of the Civil War [24:02] story. [24:03] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: OK. [24:04] Well, I definitely want to come back to that. [24:06] But I'm just trying to think of this chronologically. [24:09] So the election of 1860 is the big sort of tipping point, [24:13] it seems like. [24:14] Let me ask you this. [24:15] Who did Michigan vote for? [24:17] JACK DEMPSEY: Michigan voted for Abraham Lincoln, [24:20] and I have the statistics, 57% to 42%. [24:24] So that's a pretty significant margin of victory. [24:27] And the 42% went to Stephen A. Douglas, [24:31] who was a very prominent Democrat from Illinois, [24:34] "The Little Giant," so-called, his nickname. [24:37] And so he was the Democratic candidate for the North. [24:41] There were others for other aspects of the election. [24:45] So that's a very significant vote. [24:47] And Michigan had become a Republican state [24:51] at the state level for governor and state legislature. [24:54] But this is the second time it went for a Republican candidate, [24:57] but overwhelmingly, and therefore cast [25:00] its electoral votes for Lincoln to enable [25:03] him to become president. [25:06] Four years later, he also was voted-- [25:08] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I was going to ask. [25:09] JACK DEMPSEY: --in the majority. [25:11] Less so-- it was 56.6%. [25:14] But still, you see despite the war and all of the casualties [25:18] and all of the trauma, Michigan continued [25:21] to be a state that voted for union, [25:26] and in 1864 had a choice-- do I vote for emancipation [25:30] or do I vote for the old way? [25:33] Do I vote for the opponent of Lincoln, whose campaign [25:36] platform really was-- [25:38] let's restore the Union as it was? [25:41] And Michigan cast their electoral votes [25:45] for Lincoln and the Republican emancipation program. [25:51] So something also to think of as, I think, [25:54] as a matter of pride. [25:55] We didn't vote for secession, dissolution of the Union. [26:00] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Well, we didn't vote for it. [26:02] But how did Michiganders react when [26:05] South Carolina sort of stomped their feet and stormed out? [26:10] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, there was initially [26:12] a difference of opinion. [26:13] Some said, let's let them go in peace, our errant sister states. [26:19] Others said, no, this is a national issue. [26:24] When there's a vote in a democracy, the majority wins. [26:28] The minority doesn't get to take their ball and go home. [26:33] But everything was changed when there [26:36] was an assault, an attack on a federal fort in Charleston [26:40] Harbor, South Carolina, in April of '61, when Americans shoot [26:49] at the American flag to capture a fort that that banner is [26:55] flying over. [26:56] For most Michiganders, regardless of their views [26:59] on slavery, that was the end. [27:00] That was the tipping point. [27:03] And so the response to the call for volunteers [27:06] to put down this rebellion was very enthusiastic [27:09] on the part of many Michiganders. [27:10] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Called in from Lincoln? [27:11] JACK DEMPSEY: Lincoln called right [27:13] after the surrender of Fort Sumter in April, [27:16] called for volunteers. [27:18] And Michigan overwhelmingly supported that effort. [27:22] We were only asked to raise one regiment, [27:26] and there was a surplus of people that [27:28] wanted to volunteer right away. [27:30] So additional regiments were raised, [27:33] hoping that they might be accepted into federal service. [27:36] And other people didn't wait. [27:38] They went to Illinois, or they went to New York, [27:40] or they went to some other place to enlist. [27:43] And so what you see up there on the screen on the left-hand side [27:48] is Austin Blair, the monument to him in front of the state [27:51] capital in Lansing. [27:53] He was the governor at that point. [27:55] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Republican? [27:56] JACK DEMPSEY: Republican Governor. [27:57] And he was nicknamed ever after as the War Governor of Michigan. [28:03] Because his activity was 100% for union, [28:08] for preservation of the Constitution, [28:10] for putting down the secession, keeping the country united, [28:15] and as a part of that, then, to eliminate slavery. [28:18] This was the opportunity once and for all [28:21] to put to rest this issue of whether involuntary servitude [28:26] could be maintained as an American institution. [28:30] And the war answered that question emphatically no. [28:33] So Blair was an instrumental person, great leader, orator. [28:38] And the association that you asked me about earlier, [28:41] we've published five books. [28:44] It's an annual series, comes out every September coincident [28:47] with Antietam. [28:48] And the last two have been Blair's speeches, remarks, [28:52] letters, public statements. [28:55] And they show the depth of his leadership, [28:59] his courage, his willingness to sacrifice his own fortune. [29:04] He left office in 1865 less well-off [29:07] financially than he was when he got elected. [29:10] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I'm not going to comment on that. [29:12] JACK DEMPSEY: Yeah. [29:13] Wow, what a concept. [29:14] [LAUGHTER] [29:16] So he gave everything for the cause, [29:18] for Michigan, for the Union, and hence his statue [29:22] is appropriate for right in front of the capital, [29:25] looking down Michigan Avenue towards Ann Arbor, [29:29] and is a great individual that I think in this election year, [29:32] we can look to as a model of the kind of leader [29:35] that we hopefully could elect this fall [29:40] and in future elections. [29:42] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So thinking about Austin Blair, [29:45] you mentioned that the Republican platform of the 1860 [29:49] election, it was not to abolish slavery. [29:52] JACK DEMPSEY: Right. [29:53] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Was Blair an abolitionist-- [29:54] JACK DEMPSEY: He was. [29:55] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: --going into the conflict? [29:57] JACK DEMPSEY: He was most definitely an abolitionist. [29:59] He was a human rights advocate. [30:02] He was helpful, a leader in the elimination of capital [30:07] punishment in Michigan. [30:09] So you could say he was a advocate of eliminating [30:18] every kind of ultimate punishment, [30:23] whether that be death, whether that [30:25] be incarceration in the form of enslavement, slavery. [30:31] He was for equal rights, voting rights for Blacks, for women. [30:35] He was for public education. [30:37] He was really a radical individual, radical statesman. [30:41] And that's, in fact, the name of the first book [30:43] that we came out with about him, Radical of Radicals. [30:47] He's kind of the epitome of a radical politician, [30:51] because he's so far out on the equal rights spectrum [30:55] that many thought he was too far out. [30:58] But when he was done with his career, [31:00] he saw many of these things come into being-- not necessarily [31:04] the national vote for women, which is hard to believe. [31:07] We were talking about this earlier. [31:08] It was only in 1920. [31:11] It seems crazy that it was just almost a century ago [31:14] that women got that vote. [31:15] But he advocated for these things [31:17] as part of his liberty-advocating mindset. [31:25] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Interesting. [31:26] I have to read that book. [31:27] I haven't read that one. [31:28] JACK DEMPSEY: Yeah, you should get that book. [31:30] So should everybody. [31:31] [LAUGHTER] [31:32] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So he was obviously very-- [31:34] maybe enthusiastic is the wrong word-- but strongly in support [31:37] of putting down the war that began. [31:38] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [31:39] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: And it sounds like a lot of Michiganders were. [31:41] How many Michiganders enlisted or served during the conflict? [31:45] JACK DEMPSEY: We had approximately 90,000 soldiers. [31:47] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Out of, what did you say it was, 750,000? [31:50] JACK DEMPSEY: 750,000 population, [31:53] so a large proportion of the military-age, eligible people, [31:58] males. [31:59] There were a few women who managed to get into uniform. [32:02] They weren't allowed to, but they managed to do that, [32:05] and documented their service such [32:07] that they ended up getting a pension after the war. [32:11] So that was amazing. [32:12] Black troops, as I said. [32:15] And of the 90,000, it's interesting to think how many [32:20] would come home. [32:22] A full 1/6th of those never came back. [32:26] So roughly 14,000 to 15,000 individuals died from disease [32:33] or from being killed outright in battle or from wounds [32:36] afterwards. [32:37] So one way of thinking of that is, [32:39] back to the Michigan Stadium idea, [32:42] so let's just round up to 100,000. [32:45] Michigan Stadium is full, and you section off 1/6th of it [32:51] and empty that. [32:53] That's the number of people that did not come back [32:56] from military service. [32:58] Another way to look at it is, if we have 10 million Michiganders [33:01] today and 90,000 to 750,000 served, that's about 1/9th. [33:11] But let's round it off again. [33:13] Let's say a million Michiganders are in uniform today. [33:17] That would be astonishing to think what it would do [33:19] to our society, our population. [33:22] And of those million, a 1/6th or a 1/7th would not come home. [33:27] 140,000, 150,000 people would die fighting for their country, [33:32] for their state. [33:34] As you said earlier, it's a bloody war. [33:36] It's a costly war. [33:38] And these numbers are approximate because we did not [33:42] have the same kind of accurate tracking system [33:45] then that we do today. [33:47] So soldiers are recorded as missing. [33:51] They may just be not there the next morning [33:54] when roll is called. [33:56] Maybe they're off in another part of the battlefield. [33:59] Maybe they're hiding from the enemy. [34:00] Maybe they're captured. [34:02] Captured soldiers escaped right away sometimes, [34:07] or within a few days, and came back to the unit. [34:09] And then what about the soldier who's wounded? [34:11] He's in a hospital. [34:13] He's in a hospital for days and then dies. [34:16] Is he counted in these figures? [34:18] So at Antietam, there was a Major General from Michigan, [34:23] Israel Richardson, he was wounded on September 17 [34:28] in the battle by an artillery round. [34:32] He's taken to a house. [34:33] He recuperates. [34:34] His wife comes from Michigan to help him recuperate, [34:38] but he ends up dying weeks later. [34:41] So is he counted in this total number of dead from Michigan [34:45] of 14,000 or so? [34:47] It's difficult to track. [34:49] So we always have to understand that the numbers we're [34:52] working with are approximate and probably understate the cost, [34:56] even as horrendous as these numbers are. [34:59] So it's a war that is very costly to Michigan. [35:05] And that is something that I think [35:07] forms the basis for the memory afterwards, as we look back, [35:12] as Michiganders look back. [35:13] It's not just a few of us went, a few of us [35:16] died, but every community is affected [35:19] by what happens during these four years in the war. [35:23] So I think also up there is another monument. [35:27] We've seen three monuments to Lewis Cass, which, by the way, [35:30] that's in the US Capitol, Statuary Hall. [35:35] Blair in front of the Capitol in Lansing, [35:37] and then Alpheus Williams riding a horse. [35:42] One of his horses was named Plug Ugly. [35:45] [LAUGHTER] [35:46] But that horse looks pretty nice. [35:48] So it's probably not Plug Ugly. [35:50] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Or artistic license. [35:51] JACK DEMPSEY: Or artistic license, yes. [35:54] Williams served through the four years of the war [36:00] and was the preeminent leader, from a military standpoint, [36:06] going into the war. [36:08] But he's pretty old. [36:09] He still volunteers. [36:11] He becomes a general. [36:12] He fights at battles like Antietam and Gettysburg [36:16] in the West, all the way with Sherman in the march [36:19] through Georgia to Savannah and then up through the Carolinas. [36:23] So his service is amazing. [36:25] By the way, I also wrote a book about him, [36:28] so you might want to pick that up. [36:30] I'm full of shameless self promotion moments. [36:33] But he's someone that again, we should look to. [36:36] His statue is on Belle Isle in the Detroit River, Alpheus [36:40] Williams. [36:42] And it's amazing to think that to this day, this date 105 [36:48] years ago, October 15, that statue was dedicated. [36:51] That's the unveiling of that statue to Alpheus Williams. [36:55] So again, memory-- why in 1921, would Michigan [37:03] be erecting statues to Civil War figures? [37:06] Because we had just fought World War I. [37:09] We're still thinking about what this state's all about. [37:13] It's about these principles that date [37:17] from the Declaration of Independence and the Northwest [37:19] Ordinance. [37:20] So we venerate people like Alpheus Williams-- by the way, [37:25] a Democrat, a former Whig who ran for Congress as a Democrat, [37:30] served in the Congress, and died, [37:35] was stricken in the halls of Congress, [37:38] just like John Quincy Adams was stricken. [37:41] So these are stories that I think, I don't know, [37:43] I like them. [37:45] That's why I like talking about them. [37:46] But they're meaningful, they're not just fun to talk about. [37:49] These are people that we, today, our lives [37:53] have been built on their service, their sacrifice, [37:56] that foundation. [37:58] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: And were these 90,000, [38:01] were they all volunteers? [38:03] JACK DEMPSEY: Not all. [38:04] No, there was a draft. [38:07] And to offset that draft, bounties [38:09] were offered both at the state and local level. [38:12] But by and large, most of the 90,000 were volunteers. [38:17] And people volunteered even in late '64 and early '65, [38:22] as the war was maybe coming to a close as it did. [38:25] So even in the last days of the war, [38:27] people were still volunteering to try [38:30] to go fight to be part of this effort [38:34] to unite the country on the basis of liberty and rights [38:40] for all. [38:40] So there was a draft. [38:42] There were riots because people didn't want to be drafted. [38:48] That's part of the story and needs to be told just as well. [38:51] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Speaking of riots, [38:52] you said there was violence aimed at African-Americans [38:57] in Detroit during the war. [38:58] Could you tell us a little more about that? [39:00] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, there was a riot on the East side of Detroit [39:05] in early '63 after the Emancipation Proclamation [39:11] was issued by the president. [39:14] And there was an idea that something unfortunate had [39:20] happened on the part of a Black person against a white woman-- [39:23] typical-- [39:24] which was not true. [39:25] And so this riot occurred and Blacks suffered. [39:32] We've also published that story in our third book. [39:36] So we're trying to tell all aspects of the Civil War story, [39:39] not just, say, the "salute the flag" kind of stories. [39:44] But that did not demotivate Blacks in Detroit. [39:47] It motivated them to want to serve. [39:49] And then there was a recruitment drive all the way [39:52] through the southern tier of counties. [39:55] The Michigan Central Railroad took this regiment [40:01] on a recruiting drive down into the southwestern part [40:05] of the state, and they ended up raising over 1,400 men to serve [40:10] in that unit-- some from other states, [40:12] but mostly from Michigan. [40:13] So that's two sides of the coin, I [40:16] think, tell a great story for how Michigan reacted. [40:23] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: And that, from my understanding, [40:25] is the 102nd Regiment? [40:27] They were called United States Colored Troops, is that right? [40:29] JACK DEMPSEY: Right. [40:30] So they were raised as the first Michigan Colored Infantry [40:33] Regiment. [40:34] But then these regiments were drawn into federal service [40:39] directly. [40:40] They were federalized, I guess you would say. [40:42] So they were part of the United States Colored Troops regiments. [40:47] They were given the number 102nd. [40:50] The most famous Black regiment is the 54th Massachusetts. [40:56] And we had Michiganders who volunteered [40:59] to be part of that regiment, which was featured in the movie [41:01] Glory. [41:03] So you had state designations and federal designations, [41:07] and we have markers to both here in Michigan, [41:10] and we have soldiers in national cemeteries [41:13] in other states from that regiment, as well as in Detroit [41:17] and other cemeteries, Historic Elmwood. [41:21] And I need to mention that because in Elmwood, there's [41:23] a non-segregated section of Civil War graves. [41:27] And I think that epitomizes what the outcome of the war was. [41:31] It's not going to end up with two separate societies, at least [41:34] that was the idea. [41:38] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That was the idea. [41:39] JACK DEMPSEY: That was the idea. [41:41] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Well, I'm also curious. [41:44] You talked about how these African-American troops [41:47] went to the Deep South. [41:49] You mentioned Michiganders played a key role at Antietam [41:52] in Maryland. [41:54] Did Michigan troops end up all over the place, it sounds like? [41:58] Or can you tell a little about where [42:00] they ended up during the war? [42:02] JACK DEMPSEY: Yeah, so how much time do we have? [42:04] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: We got plenty of time. [42:05] JACK DEMPSEY: OK. [42:06] It's hard to do a fair job, but I'll try. [42:11] So the first regiment is raised for 90 days. [42:14] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: This is the 1861? [42:16] JACK DEMPSEY: 1861. [42:17] They go down and fight at the first battle of Bull Run, [42:22] and then their term of enlistment ends. [42:26] So many of them reenlist in the First Michigan infantry [42:30] three-year regiment. [42:32] And that regiment goes all the way [42:35] through the war, all the way to the surrender at Appomattox. [42:40] So kind of from Genesis to Revelation, or soup to nuts, [42:46] or whatever analogy you want. [42:49] You have 30 infantry regiments. [42:53] A regiment's about 1,000 nominally. [42:56] We have, I believe it's 13 cavalry regiments. [43:00] So this goes back to your question-- [43:02] what is Michigan like? [43:03] Do people ride horses in Michigan [43:05] or are they riding horseless carriages? [43:08] It's a very agrarian state with people riding horses. [43:12] Even in Detroit, you have cities, you have buggies. [43:17] People are familiar with horses. [43:18] And Michigan furnishes horses to the Union Army [43:21] as well as cavalry soldiers. [43:25] So we have very famous cavalry units, four of which [43:29] came together into a brigade. [43:32] And a brigade is a collection of regiments. [43:35] The Michigan Cavalry Brigade consisted of four Michigan horse [43:40] soldier regiments. [43:41] And they really, I would argue, and I [43:44] think other historians have said this, [43:46] is the preeminent Union cavalry force in the war. [43:52] They fight at Gettysburg under somebody-- [43:55] I don't know if you've ever heard of George Armstrong [43:57] Custer. [43:58] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: The name rings a bell. [43:59] JACK DEMPSEY: It does? [44:00] OK, that's good. [44:01] His Civil War service is not equaled by any cavalry officer. [44:07] He has this thing after the war out there in the Great Plains. [44:11] But we don't have to talk about that because this [44:13] is about Civil War. [44:14] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That's not in Michigan. [44:14] JACK DEMPSEY: That's not in Michigan or about the Civil War. [44:17] But he's a fearless leader. [44:19] He becomes a boy general. [44:20] He's elevated from captain to general [44:23] on the eve of Gettysburg. [44:24] And he leads this brigade into action against J.E.B. Stuart, [44:29] the Cavalier of the South, and Wade Hampton, who's [44:33] equally famous, and defeats them, [44:36] is part of defeating them at Gettysburg, [44:38] and goes on all the way again to Appomattox, both Custer, [44:43] his brother Tom, and this brigade. [44:46] And so that's part of our heritage. [44:49] The Fourth Michigan Cavalry Regiment fights in the West. [44:55] So you have the Eastern theater, which is really East [44:57] of the Appalachians, and the so-called Western theater, [45:01] which is really between, say, the Mississippi [45:03] and the Appalachians. [45:06] Then you have the trans-Mississippi theater, [45:08] which is the other side of the Mississippi River. [45:10] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: It was a big country. [45:11] JACK DEMPSEY: It was a big country. [45:12] And we had units out there as well. [45:14] But the Fourth is very interesting [45:16] because they're the unit that captures Confederate President [45:22] Jefferson Davis when he's fleeing at the end of the war. [45:28] Lee surrenders at Appomattox in Virginia. [45:31] But Davis, who flees the Confederate capital in Richmond, [45:35] makes it all the way to Georgia to try [45:38] to keep the Confederate government going. [45:41] He's not going to give up. [45:43] Lee recognizes it's over, but Davis does not. [45:49] And maybe he's the opposite of Blair. [45:52] He's the Confederate of Confederates. [45:56] So during his flight, his whereabouts are made known by-- [46:05] I think the story is-- by former slaves telling Union troops [46:11] where his party is. [46:12] And so the Fourth Michigan, along with another regiment, [46:16] captures Davis, making sure there's [46:18] not going to be like Napoleon coming back for a second time [46:23] to be emperor of France. [46:26] They get a reward from the federal government for capturing [46:30] Davis, and their leader is actually [46:33] a U of M student, former student, Benjamin Pritchard, [46:36] if I remember correctly. [46:37] So there's a direct connection here, [46:40] all you alums, to the capture of Jefferson Davis. [46:44] Good job, you all. [46:46] [LAUGHTER] [46:48] And really that's the end of the Confederacy. [46:52] Once the head is gone, he's in federal custody, [46:57] there's not going to be any way that you can resurrect this. [47:01] So that's another aspect of it. [47:03] We had artillery units. [47:05] We had specialized units. [47:06] And one was the Michigan Regiment [47:08] of Engineers and Mechanics, the forerunner to the construction [47:13] battalion units that were in World War II, [47:18] and a regiment of sharpshooters who were raised really [47:23] to try to do that, be marksmen in battle, [47:27] but ended up kind of becoming more or less a regular service [47:32] unit and were in on the final days of Lee's army in Virginia. [47:38] And that's, by the way, what our next book's going to be about. [47:41] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I swear, I'm not asking these questions [47:44] on purpose. [47:44] JACK DEMPSEY: No, but I figured out how I could weave them in. [47:47] Thank you. [47:48] [LAUGHTER] [47:48] Anyway, it's going to be about the Michigan role [47:51] in that final campaign in Virginia [47:53] leading up to the surrender at Appomattox. [47:56] And really, when we're compiling these, [47:58] we don't really know the dimensions. [48:00] I mean, we're learning these stories as well as everybody. [48:05] Our goal is to educate, is to surface [48:07] these untold or little-known stories, like, [48:10] did Michigan play a role in Lee's surrender [48:13] in the end of the Confederacy? [48:15] Yes, it did, a major role, and we [48:17] outlined that in the book that will come out next September. [48:20] So, yeah, a preview of coming attractions. [48:22] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I really appreciate that. [48:24] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] [48:25] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: But leaving the battlefields [48:27] and coming back to the state itself, [48:31] can you talk a little about what the impact of the war was? [48:34] You talked earlier about the UP being developed, starting [48:36] to be developed, and just the sheer absence [48:39] of such a huge fraction of the population. [48:42] What was life like in the state during the conflict? [48:45] JACK DEMPSEY: During the conflict? [48:47] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Yeah. [48:49] JACK DEMPSEY: So with so many soldiers [48:51] gone, who picks up the burden? [48:55] Who picks up the reins of the horse or the mule plowing? [49:00] Who takes control of the family fortune, [49:03] ensuring that the budgets met, kids are fed and taken care of? [49:10] It's women, by and large. [49:12] And so one way of looking at it is, without women, there [49:18] would have been no Civil War. [49:20] That's not really the right way to say it. [49:22] [LAUGHTER] [49:25] But women played a key role. [49:27] A few, as I said, went off to fight. [49:29] Others went to the front to support their husband, [49:32] to be close by. [49:34] Wives of officers sometimes were in camp with them [49:38] during non-battle times. [49:43] But for those who stayed behind, they [49:45] ended up serving in the man's role, who [49:50] was the father, the husband, whatever, but also [49:53] in occupations that were not typically female. [49:57] So maybe they supplied some kind of labor in an office [50:04] or in a shop or something. [50:05] So I think that's the first real taste of how the role of women [50:12] should not be just limited to the kitchen or the farm, [50:17] but they play an important role in sustaining this effort [50:21] to sustain the Union. [50:24] And so there is a societal change. [50:26] And when soldiers come back, there's [50:28] kind of a period of adjustment of things going back [50:32] to so-called normalcy. [50:34] And we have women who played other roles. [50:36] We have a woman who became a reporter in Washington [50:41] and sent dispatches back, talking about what was happening [50:44] in Washington and with the war. [50:47] And there's a book that's been accumulated of her columns. [50:50] And there were memoirs written by some of the women [50:54] who fought at the front, or said they did, or served [50:57] in some other capacity. [50:59] So there's a rich heritage there to be further looked at. [51:03] And letters back and forth between soldiers and the home [51:09] front are a real treasure trove. [51:13] I was privileged to be an editor for some correspondence [51:17] between a soldier who was in this Engineers and Mechanics [51:21] Regiment, and his wife. [51:23] And it's really interesting counterplay [51:27] between the two of them. [51:30] She ends up with more money than he does with his soldier's [51:36] salary, because she's so capable of managing things, including [51:40] buying a house and renting out a piece of property. [51:44] And he's writing her saying, I don't think you should do that. [51:47] She's already done it. [51:48] Then he has to write and say, that was a really good idea. [51:52] So we see some things that maybe are more modern, in a sense, [51:57] in the 1860s, as people have to adjust to these different roles. [52:02] And that's another aspect of this heritage [52:05] that I think is fascinating. [52:08] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Now, the war starts in 1861. [52:12] You have multiple bloody years. [52:14] But there is a presidential election in 1864. [52:18] Michigan still goes for Lincoln and the continuation of the war, [52:22] though in slightly smaller numbers, it sounds like. [52:25] And then you have April 1865, Robert E. Lee surrenders, [52:30] the war seems to be coming to an end, [52:32] and Abraham Lincoln is shot. [52:34] What was the reaction in Michigan to the news of that? [52:38] JACK DEMPSEY: Horror, horrified, deep grief and lamentation. [52:44] And there were events coincident with the funeral train that [52:52] brought his remains back to Springfield, Illinois, [52:54] here in Michigan. [52:54] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Did that go through Michigan? [52:55] JACK DEMPSEY: It did not go through Michigan. [52:58] We were not on the main railroad route. [53:01] But coincident with that, there were events held in, I believe, [53:06] in Ann Arbor and Detroit and other places, [53:09] and the 24th Michigan Regiment of Infantry, [53:13] which had fought at Gettysburg and was decimated [53:18] because of that, they formed an honor guard for Lincoln at his [53:23] burial in Springfield. [53:24] So in a way, Michigan was part of this funeral effort. [53:30] I ought to mention, put in a plug for the fact [53:32] that just recently, a group of people in Kalamazoo [53:36] have formed an enterprise to commemorate [53:40] the memory of Lincoln in Michigan-- his one appearance [53:44] during the campaign of 1856, I believe, [53:49] the John C. Fremont candidacy for president as a Republican. [53:53] So there's a statue of Lincoln that's [53:55] been erected in Kalamazoo within the last decade. [53:59] Monuments are going down in some places in America, [54:02] and we won't necessarily say why or whether that's good or bad. [54:07] That could be a whole other hour and a half talk. [54:10] But here in Michigan, we've just recently raised [54:15] a monument to Lincoln in Kalamazoo [54:18] because that's where he spoke. [54:20] So we do have a Lincoln heritage here that's still being boosted, [54:27] I guess you would say. [54:28] So Lincoln's killed, and things changed dramatically [54:32] because his successor, Andrew Johnson, [54:34] is nothing like Lincoln. [54:36] He is not an abolitionist, and he's a racist, pure and simple. [54:42] So we get into a political problem [54:44] because we have a Congress that's Republican. [54:47] We have a president who doesn't agree with their viewpoint, who [54:51] wants the nation to be put back together quickly, even [54:54] if the South doesn't recognize the rights of the formerly [54:58] enslaved. [54:59] So we have a constitutional struggle in which Michigan [55:04] leaders in Congress play a big role in terms of propounding [55:09] the 13th Amendment against eliminating slavery, the 14th, [55:13] equal rights, and the 15th, voting rights for Black men. [55:17] So Michiganders in Congress play a key role [55:20] in doing that, including Austin Blair, who [55:21] becomes a Congressman. [55:22] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: He stepped down as governor, I assume. [55:25] JACK DEMPSEY: He stepped down as governor in January of '65, [55:30] would like to have become senator, [55:32] but he was not of that group of people who [55:37] supported the existing senator. [55:38] So he ran for Congress from Jackson and won and was part [55:42] of propounding the 15th Amendment. [55:44] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: What was the crisis you mentioned? [55:48] Was it just those amendments that Michiganders [55:50] were playing a key part of? [55:52] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, Johnson wanted [55:55] to restore the states of the Confederacy back [55:58] into full participation in political affairs. [56:03] Lincoln wanted to do that rapidly as well, as rapidly as [56:07] made sense. [56:08] But he still was not going to tolerate [56:12] the reinstitution of slavery. [56:14] He was an equal rights advocate, more than Johnson, for sure. [56:20] So Johnson attempts through executive action [56:23] and through vetoes of congressional bills to Institute [56:26] his program. [56:28] The Republicans, radical Republicans, [56:31] want to reconstruct the country in a different way. [56:35] And Michigan comes down on the side of the Congressional form [56:41] of reconstruction, not the Johnsonian form [56:45] of reconstruction. [56:46] So there's the first impeachment of a president in national [56:51] history in the 1860s. [56:54] And Austin Blair votes for impeachment. [56:58] So it's interesting to think about how [57:01] he had that decision to make. [57:03] And he believed that Johnson was on the wrong side of history. [57:10] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Probably a lot of people would agree with that. [57:13] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] [57:15] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So leaving Washington [57:17] with its crises and important issues, [57:20] coming back to Michigan yet again, [57:23] what was the aftermath of the war, [57:26] when you have tens of thousands of soldiers [57:30] returning to the state? [57:32] You mentioned the roles of women during the conflict and then [57:38] quote/unquote, "going back to normal" afterwards. [57:41] Can you tell us a little more about that? [57:44] JACK DEMPSEY: Michigan does become a growing state, [57:46] as we said. [57:48] It rises in terms of the ranking among the states. [57:51] The veterans become a very powerful political force. [57:55] They want to see pensions for those who were wounded or maimed [58:04] or who served, because there's a sense [58:08] that their service impacted them, whether you could see it [58:12] or not. [58:13] And what we have here is, on the left, the Soldiers' [58:19] and Sailors' Monument in Detroit, [58:22] which is in Campus Martius. [58:23] It's been moved around a little bit, but it's still there. [58:26] And that's dedicated to the memory [58:28] of those who fought on land and sea [58:31] to preserve the Union, a magnificent monument, and still [58:36] a place where people gather to I think, remember what happened [58:40] and why we're still able to be the country we are. [58:45] And on the right-hand side is one of the Michigan monuments [58:51] that were erected after the war-- [58:53] and this is at Andersonville Prison site in Georgia-- [58:57] a beautiful, evocative monument representing Michigan lamenting [59:03] the loss of those who were in the stockade, [59:07] inside the stockade who died. [59:09] And there was many thousands who suffered and died there, [59:13] and some who were released and then [59:16] boarded a steamship on the Mississippi River, which blew up [59:21] when its boiler exploded because it was overloaded [59:24] and were drowned in the Mississippi River. [59:27] Some Michigan veterans died there. [59:30] So again, there's another monument to that sacrifice. [59:34] So veterans become a powerful force. [59:37] They are predominantly Republican, [59:39] and so they support that agenda. [59:41] And it's not until later in the 1800s that there's more [59:45] of an equilibrium between the two parties. [59:48] And Michigan grows in terms of its industrial [59:51] and manufacturing prowess. [59:55] And it's no secret that at the turn of the century, [59:59] we've got people like Henry Ford developing products that [60:03] put Michigan really on the map. [60:05] Detroit's a stove manufacturing hub. [60:08] It's a ferry. [60:09] It's a seed headquarters, ferry seeds, [60:15] but becomes an auto capital in the early 20th century. [60:19] But in that interim, it's growing [60:21] in power, might, economy, and strength politically. [60:26] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: We only have a few minutes before I want [60:28] to open it up to the audience. [60:29] But I do want to talk, not for an hour and a half [60:33] because unfortunately, I don't have it, but a little [60:35] about monuments and memorials. [60:37] We have the images, we've got all of these memorials. [60:44] Why were these being built in Michigan? [60:48] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, to commemorate, to honor, [60:54] to help people remember what happened. [60:58] You'll find in many small towns and villages a monument to Civil [61:03] War service. [61:06] There was a standard monument that [61:07] was sold that was affordable for many small communities. [61:11] So you'll find those in, say, Williamston, [61:16] or other cities and small towns like that. [61:18] Detroit has this magnificent monument. [61:23] It wasn't just veterans who supported that. [61:25] It was leadership. [61:26] And Austin Blair was a great advocate for veterans' rights [61:31] and memory. [61:32] He spoke at many dedications. [61:34] And he and they had a bond because he gave everything [61:38] just as they did. [61:39] So it's a patriotic thing to remember what your neighbor did [61:48] for you in a military uniform. [61:52] And unless you've been part of a military family, [61:55] maybe you don't quite have that familiarity, [61:57] but you can imagine it. [61:59] You can imagine what it's like for someone's husband to go off [62:03] or someone's wife to go off and serve, maybe lose a limb, [62:08] maybe come back with the emotional trauma from warfare. [62:14] And this warfare was traumatic. [62:16] I mean, these were weapons that killed and maimed, [62:20] that left men disfigured, soldiers disfigured. [62:25] And it was a time when medical knowledge was advanced [62:33] by surgeons, by doctors. [62:36] I think that helped carry forward [62:39] a better standard of care after the war, [62:41] in terms of, it's not just patent medicine that's [62:44] going to service the population, but scientific, [62:49] well-studied, well-learned, well-taught medical practice [62:53] here. [62:54] Ann Arbor is obviously a great model of that. [62:57] So you had medical doctors who were not just hack and whack [63:01] sawbones, but actually looked for the welfare [63:04] of their patients. [63:06] So these monuments, there are Civil War cannons in Michigan [63:11] that were actually on famous ships [63:14] that you walk through a little town square like Petoskey, [63:18] and here's a cannon and you think, well, I [63:20] wonder what that's from? [63:21] Well, it's from the vessel that passed the batteries [63:28] at New Orleans and Mobile. [63:30] "Damn the torpedoes!" [63:31] That's one of those cannons. [63:33] So these help us remember. [63:36] And unless we remember the past, the famous statement [63:41] is, we're doomed to repeat it. [63:42] But it's not just that negative sort of connotation. [63:47] This is really part of the fabric of our life, our society, [63:54] what people have done, how they've [63:56] fought for these great principles-- life, liberty, [63:59] and the pursuit of happiness. [64:01] And so if you take that for granted-- [64:04] and we have a lot to take for granted, because we have so much [64:07] to be grateful for. [64:08] And so I think every time you see one of these, [64:11] maybe you don't have to go up and worship at it [64:15] or even read the plaque, but it can cause you to think about, [64:19] hmm, today I'm able to do this because they did that. [64:23] So these are things not to be torn down here in Michigan. [64:27] We don't have any monuments to Confederates. [64:29] We don't have any monuments, that I'm aware of, [64:31] to the pro-slavery viewpoint. [64:35] There's this whole lost cause idea, [64:40] which I don't want to necessarily get [64:42] too much into the weeds, but because we fought for the Union, [64:46] we don't have to deal with that issue. [64:48] We don't have to worry about certain monuments. [64:51] Now, there is a monument to Custer in Monroe, [64:54] and there are people who say, well, look [64:57] what he did in the Indian Wars. [64:59] So maybe that monument should not exist. [65:02] But it doesn't commemorate his service in 1876. [65:08] It commemorates what he did as the leader of the Michigan [65:11] Cavalry Brigade. [65:12] And those veterans of that brigade [65:15] were instrumental in getting it funded [65:18] and erected to his memory, because he [65:22] was instrumental in winning this war to put the Union back [65:26] together and eliminate slavery. [65:29] So from that perspective, if you want [65:32] to put up another plaque that talks about his post-Civil War [65:35] service, that's good because that would educate people, [65:39] but to tear it down because of something that he did later [65:43] as an instrument of federal policy? [65:45] Well, let's tear down other monuments, [65:48] like to General Grant, President Grant, [65:52] because he was the president when the Battle of Little [65:54] Bighorn went down. [65:56] So let's tear his monuments down. [65:58] Pretty soon, what have we got left? [66:00] Just a bunch of feet, stumps, where the monuments were. [66:04] Because no one's perfect. [66:07] But let's educate. [66:08] Let's use them to teach and teach the whole story. [66:11] That's my humble opinion. [66:15] [LAUGHS] And you agree with it. [66:20] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I think I do. [66:21] I think I do. [66:22] JACK DEMPSEY: Again, that lawyer persuasion power. [66:24] Thank you. [66:25] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I mean, it's that Michigan State education. [66:28] JACK DEMPSEY: Right. [66:28] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: But I think on that note, [66:30] we'll open it up to questions from the audience. [66:32] Please raise your hand and give one of our docents [66:35] a chance to bring you a microphone. [66:37] So that way our online audience will [66:38] be able to hear what you say. [66:40] Thank you. [66:43] AUDIENCE: Jack, thanks very much. [66:45] Could you talk a little bit about military awards [66:51] in the Civil War? [66:52] I bring this up because you mentioned George Armstrong [66:57] Custer's younger brother, Tom. [67:00] And people perhaps aren't aware of medals that could be received [67:07] or that hadn't even existed during the Civil War [67:10] for military and naval service. [67:14] JACK DEMPSEY: There were several awards. [67:16] One was the Kearny Cross early in the war. [67:19] But this is the first war, really, where the Medal of Honor [67:23] is instituted. [67:25] That's different from the Congressional Medal of Honor, [67:28] but it is the same lineage for an extraordinary feat, something [67:35] done in a battle, in an armed conflict. [67:39] And George Armstrong's younger brother, Tom, [67:43] is awarded two, I believe, for the same-- [67:46] AUDIENCE: Three days apart. [67:48] JACK DEMPSEY: Three days apart. [67:49] So something ran in that Custer family in terms of cowardice [67:54] under fire-- or cowardice-- courage under fire. [67:56] [LAUGHTER] [67:57] Boy, that was a mental slip. [68:00] Courage under fire. [68:01] By the way, I love that movie, Courage Under Fire. [68:03] So it was awarded a lot for people, soldiers [68:08] who captured an enemy flag. [68:12] That was something that's tangible. [68:15] You can come back to your side, your unit [68:20] with a flag of the enemy. [68:23] And at the end of the war, Michigan troops [68:26] were capturing many Confederate flags. [68:28] And that was a great part of their heroism. [68:34] So the Medal of Honor was given to a number of soldiers all up [68:37] and down the line for some kind of heroic deed [68:41] and became really the foundation for the Congressional Medal [68:45] of Honor. [68:45] AUDIENCE: And there was no Purple Heart. [68:48] There was no Good Conduct Medal. [68:51] There was no Silver Star, Bronze star. [68:54] It was the Medal of Honor. [68:56] Or as you mentioned, there were individual unit medals [69:00] that a commander might construct himself [69:04] but were not given on behalf of the army or the navy. [69:07] JACK DEMPSEY: That's right. [69:08] And to some extent, this idea of giving someone [69:11] an honorary promotion, so-called brevet commission, [69:19] was a way of honoring their service. [69:22] So frequently, someone who was, say, a colonel was [69:25] made a brevet general for either consistently honorable service [69:33] during the war or because of something [69:35] that he did in a battle. [69:37] So in a way, that was also, I guess [69:39] you'd say, a commendation that forms the basis for today's [69:43] military honors. [69:45] Thanks. [69:45] Good question. [69:56] AUDIENCE: Were there any individuals specifically [69:58] from the University of Michigan that played significant roles [70:02] in the Civil War? [70:04] JACK DEMPSEY: There were. [70:05] And maybe this should be answered by Andrew, [70:08] but there's a great exhibit here that's just been opened-- [70:10] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That's great. [70:12] You're plugging the exhibit now, not just the books. [70:15] JACK DEMPSEY: --that tells the story of the university [70:18] and its response. [70:19] The president, President Tappen, was [70:21] very much in favor of fighting for the Union. [70:25] And he helped I think, motivate students [70:28] to go into military service. [70:31] So there's even an image here of three students who, [70:37] as soon as I think there's a threat of war, [70:41] are volunteering to serve in militia, [70:44] forming companies of militia here on campus or in Ann Arbor [70:48] to begin to prepare for war. [70:50] So students, they were ready, willing, and able [70:55] to fight for their country, the United States of America. [70:58] There were some significant people [71:00] affiliated like Pritchard, as I mentioned, [71:02] the Fourth Michigan, and also a guy [71:04] whose name is James Kidd, who was a student when [71:10] the war began, left the university, I think, in 1862, [71:15] and became a brevet brigadier general, fought with Custer [71:21] and idolized Custer. [71:22] He may be the number-one member of the Custer fan [71:26] club in the Civil War. [71:29] Because he watched Custer, he followed him. [71:33] He saw him in action. [71:34] He saw his courage. [71:35] He saw his bravery. [71:37] He saw his willingness to lead, not just order troops [71:40] into battle. [71:41] And Kidd wrote about this. [71:43] And so he's a great example, I think, [71:45] of someone who was there, who carried those memories with him, [71:51] who wrote about it, and University [71:54] of Michigan, a Wolverine. [71:55] So yes, there were a number of Michigan soldiers, [72:01] students who became prominent, and a number who died in action. [72:06] So that's all laid out here in this great exhibit, [72:09] which I was absolutely mesmerized by. [72:12] So I encourage you to look at those and other people [72:15] to come see it. [72:16] This is a magnificent place, this observatory. [72:18] So it's really something to be proud of whether you're [72:22] a Michigan grad or not. [72:23] [LAUGHS] [72:31] AUDIENCE: I was wondering if there [72:33] were any battles or skirmishes in Michigan [72:36] or on the border of Ohio? [72:39] JACK DEMPSEY: There were-- well, in the Civil War? [72:42] No. [72:43] No, we had the Toledo War, as you well know, [72:46] where there was all kinds of bloodletting. [72:49] [LAUGHTER] [72:51] I think somebody got cut by a knife. [72:52] I think that's what happened. [72:53] But no, there were no battles in Michigan [72:56] because we were so far from the front. [72:59] But there was a vessel on the Great Lakes in the Detroit [73:07] area that was captured by Confederate sympathizers [73:14] and was going to be taken down to the Cedar Point area, [73:19] not to ride rides, but to free prisoners who [73:22] were in a prison camp there. [73:24] And that was interrupted and it was unsuccessful. [73:27] But in a sense, that's really, the war came very close to here [73:32] in Southeast Michigan. [73:34] There were Confederate prisoners who were on Mackinac Island, [73:37] just a handful, but prisoners put there. [73:41] So the war came here in a way, but there were no actions, [73:45] no battles, no skirmishes. [73:48] Too far from the front, thankfully. [73:51] And there was some thought that maybe people would come over [73:53] from Windsor and do something, but that [73:55] never happened violently. [74:01] In the back. [74:04] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Mackinac Island is a long way from Mississippi. [74:06] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] [74:07] AUDIENCE: Thank you so much for this talk. [74:09] It's just been really wonderful. [74:11] I've been so glad to learn about Austin Blair. [74:15] I recently moved to Depot Town in Ypsilanti, [74:18] and I was just really struck by the number of Civil War [74:24] monuments and just history in terms of the Norris Block, [74:28] where I understand that folks camped, including [74:31] the Black Michigan regiment that you mentioned, Elijah McCoy. [74:35] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [74:36] AUDIENCE: Harriet Tubman statue downtown. [74:38] And so I was just wondering-- and also [74:40] the Underground Railroad history there as well, too. [74:42] I live in a house that's from that era, [74:45] so I'm curious if you have any history about Ypsilanti [74:48] in particular or Depot Town in relation to the Civil War? [74:52] And then also, if there's not much to dig with that, [74:54] I was also just really curious about the role of Michigan's [74:57] waterways, the lakes in general as well, during the Civil War. [75:00] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [75:01] AUDIENCE: Thanks. [75:02] JACK DEMPSEY: So let me answer that second part first. [75:05] So the Lincoln funeral train did not [75:07] come through Michigan because we were on the Great Lakes. [75:11] We weren't down in Indiana, Ohio, Illinois. [75:15] But interesting that from say, Buffalo to Detroit [75:21] was an easier ride on Lake Erie and quicker [75:25] than using a railroad. [75:27] So many troops went to the front from Detroit to Buffalo [75:32] or vice versa when they came back. [75:33] So it's very interesting to think about that about that. [75:35] And of course, when iron and copper was extracted in the UP, [75:40] it made its way over water. [75:42] There weren't roads. [75:44] There was no Mackinac Bridge in 1860. [75:48] It came by waterway. [75:50] So that's part of the Great Lakes maritime heritage. [75:54] Ypsilanti, right across from Depot Town, [75:58] there's a building that was almost going to be torn down. [76:03] It's been rescued. [76:04] It's on the northeast corner, I believe it is. [76:06] And that's got a monument, a state historical marker, [76:10] to the 17th Michigan Regiment, which was nicknamed [76:14] the Stonewall Regiment. [76:16] Now, we've all heard of Stonewall Jackson. [76:19] In fact, I have a photograph of myself [76:23] when I was on that statue sitting at his feet [76:27] as a two-year-old. [76:29] I don't know how I climbed up there. [76:32] Actually, I don't know why my parents would risk my safety [76:35] by putting me up there. [76:36] [LAUGHTER] [76:37] But anyway, back to the point. [76:39] So the Stonewall Regiment got its nickname at a battle right [76:44] before Antietam, when they climbed up [76:47] a hillside, a mountainside, and attacked a Confederate force [76:52] that was on the other side of a stone wall, [76:55] so going uphill in the face of hostile fire [77:00] and captured that position-- [77:02] again, great heroism on September 14, 1862. [77:07] So without that action, perhaps we [77:11] would not have had Antietam the same way or Antietam at all. [77:14] So right across from Depot Town is where this regiment mustered, [77:19] organized, and is another example of how [77:23] right around the corner from many of us [77:25] is something that should electrify us. [77:29] Because we think about these people who, even though they [77:34] knew how awful this was going to be, [77:37] how dangerous-- they'd seen soldiers come back maimed, [77:41] they'd heard about they read about people dying, [77:43] yet they went off. [77:45] And those 1,000, 800 men of that regiment went into the teeth [77:49] of fire on September 14, '62, and got this immortal nickname. [77:55] And I like that one a lot better than the other guy who [77:58] fought for the wrong side. [78:03] GREGORY PARKER: We have a question [78:05] from the online audience, but I also [78:07] wanted to put in a plug for a November 22 event we're [78:11] doing here, in conjunction with the African-American Cultural [78:15] and Historical Museum of Washtenaw County, which [78:17] is a motor coach or bus and walking tour of back Washtenaw [78:22] County in the Civil War, which will go to various sites [78:26] in Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti. [78:28] And we'll explore that history. [78:29] So in again, reference to the last question, [78:33] I wanted to mention that. [78:34] I also wanted to ask an online question [78:35] from one of our online guests. [78:41] The questioner asked, what is the relationship [78:44] to Michigan and the US Colored Troops, [78:45] which we've kind of talked about a bit? [78:47] But also, did any of the US Colored Troops [78:50] regiments participate in the Battle of Gettysburg? [78:54] JACK DEMPSEY: The answer to that question is no, [78:56] because they weren't even organized and mustered [78:59] into service in July of 1863. [79:02] They were still being recruited. [79:05] And I have to say that at that point in the war, [79:08] there's still a question in the minds of some-- [79:11] are these men actually going to perform like white troops? [79:20] And so in some cases, they only do guard duty or they do "away [79:25] from the front lines" duty. [79:27] But the First Michigan Colored Regiment [79:30] is sent down to South Carolina, and they [79:34] do fight some battles, including the Battle of Honey Hill, which [79:39] is a site that has been off limits, private property, that [79:43] now is coming, I believe, into public access. [79:48] So if any of you drive down or fly down [79:51] or get in the neighborhood of Hilton Head, you can, I think, [79:55] go see this spot. [79:57] And it's a great story of them fighting, [80:01] again heroically, like the Stonewall Regiment troops, [80:04] hostile fire, in the open, exposed, demonstrating [80:09] their personal courage. [80:11] And just the fact, again, that these soldiers [80:14] went down to South Carolina and Georgia and Florida. [80:19] This unit, this regiment put their necks [80:22] on the line in an area that was extremely hostile, [80:27] just looking at their physical appearance, [80:32] and did not recognize them as soldiers, as regular soldiers. [80:39] The Confederate policy was-- we don't have to treat them as POWs [80:42] and treat them like we would other soldiers in blue uniforms. [80:47] So they did a lot. [80:48] They risked a lot. [80:49] And that extent of heroism is something [80:52] that really distinguishes them uniquely from other soldiers. [80:56] So no, not at Gettysburg, but other battles. [80:59] And you can again, it's exciting that these things [81:03] are being developed in the sense of access is being provided. [81:08] You can go see the ground, the holy ground, the sacred ground, [81:12] the hallowed ground where they fought for us. [81:14] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Is there a monument to the regiment [81:16] anywhere that you know of? [81:18] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, there's a state historical marker [81:21] on a school property in Detroit where they trained. [81:27] Unfortunately, that marker has been in bad condition. [81:31] I don't know its current condition. [81:34] But as part of the state, you can go look at all the state [81:38] historical markers online. [81:40] There's also a database of historical markers online [81:45] that you can go look up those kinds of markers. [81:47] So there are a few and it'd be great [81:49] if there were more to tell that story. [81:56] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Any other questions? [81:57] We have time for maybe one more. [82:02] AUDIENCE: This isn't specifically about Michigan, [82:04] but you keep talking about the front. [82:09] I have difficulty conceiving of where the front was. [82:13] Because I grew up in Europe, as you could tell by my accent. [82:17] And when we had a front in the First World War, [82:20] it sat there for four years and moved [82:22] about 100 yards either way, but you could define it. [82:26] I've never seen a defined front for the Civil War. [82:29] It strikes me that the place was so huge, [82:31] you couldn't really have just one. [82:34] What defined the front? [82:36] JACK DEMPSEY: That's a really good question. [82:40] So let me try to answer it this way. [82:42] In the eastern theater, there was [82:45] a front between Washington, DC, and Richmond, Virginia. [82:52] And that front kind of moved up and back and forth from 1861 [82:58] into the spring of 1864. [83:01] So, in a way, three years, there was this moveable front. [83:06] When Grant, U.S. Grant came east after he [83:10] was very successful in the western theater, [83:12] he changed that dynamic. [83:14] The front moved around Richmond and Petersburg, [83:17] and Lee was trapped in those trenches. [83:21] And so there was kind of a World War I trench line on both sides. [83:27] And Grant kept extending that line to the southwest. [83:31] And Lee had to keep extending his. [83:33] And finally, there was a breakthrough [83:36] that both sides wanted in World War I. And the end of the war [83:42] came within a matter of days. [83:44] So there was some similarity, I guess. [83:47] Out west it was quite different-- [83:49] a vast territory and rivers that were alleyways, I guess, [83:57] for Union forces to move South. [84:01] But as they move South, their supply lines, of course [84:03] got longer and longer. [84:05] And ultimately the Union captured New Orleans [84:11] in 1862, Mobile in '64. [84:15] Kentucky stayed in the Union. [84:17] Tennessee became mostly Union occupied by '64. [84:22] And then when Sherman captured Atlanta and moved down [84:27] to Savannah, in a way, the front moved all the way [84:30] to the Atlantic Coast. [84:32] So that's a very good question. [84:34] And I think in the west it was very different. [84:36] You had this vast territory of land that, how do you occupy it [84:44] and how do you prevent Confederate interests [84:47] from resurrecting themselves? [84:50] Well, ultimately, through what happened in World War [84:54] I, at some point, on some basis-- morale, the morale [85:00] of people in the South. [85:03] And this has been admitted by people like Davis, flagged. [85:10] And so they did not support the war like they had in '61. [85:14] That's an interesting parallel, so I appreciate [85:16] you bringing that up. [85:18] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: OK, we have time [85:20] for maybe one more question. [85:28] AUDIENCE: Could you say a little more about the conditions [85:32] in Michigan that led to people supporting [85:36] expanding suffrage, tolerating a huge influx of out-of-staters, [85:44] and supporting putting their lives on the line for the cause [85:49] of keeping the Union together? [85:51] It seems like it's a fertile ground, [85:56] like there must have been something going on that [86:02] put people in this mindset. [86:05] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes, it's a complicated answer, I think. [86:09] So part of it is, Michigan qualifies to be a state in 1835. [86:15] Our first Constitution was approved in 1835. [86:20] But if you look at our state flag [86:22] and you look at when we were admitted, it was in 1837. [86:25] So what happened in those two years? [86:27] The Toledo War. [86:28] We wanted Toledo bad. [86:31] And so we were not going to accept statehood until Congress [86:35] drew the boundary, the Michigan boundary, south of Toledo. [86:39] So we'd have Toledo, Michigan, and the Toledo Mud Cats [86:42] would be another Michigan baseball team-- [86:45] Mud Hens. [86:48] But Ohio was already in the Congress. [86:52] It was able to say, we're going to keep our boundary north. [86:56] So we ended up taking the UP in return, which was [87:00] really a good deal, actually. [87:02] But I think there's that heritage of, boy, we [87:05] had to fight our way into the Union. [87:08] We weren't just granted admission. [87:11] And then that kind of is also based on the fact [87:14] that Michigan was painted as a bad place to live. [87:19] The southern tier of counties were swamp land. [87:23] So you really didn't want to go to Michigan. [87:25] But as people came here and they found that's not true [87:28] and then were denied admission initially, [87:31] I think we get a chip on our shoulder. [87:33] And so we have this sort of perverse pride [87:36] that, fine, it's us against everybody. [87:41] Oh, boy, I should have-- [87:42] [LAUGHTER] [87:44] I should have patented that idea. [87:48] So, and a lot of easterners come, [87:49] and they come with the ideas of the town hall [87:54] meeting, democracy. [87:57] They aren't able to buy property because 200 years of society [88:03] has already taken up all the land. [88:05] Well, here in Michigan, there's a lot of land. [88:07] It used to be occupied by the inhabitants who [88:10] have been here for many years. [88:12] By the way, I should mention that's another part [88:15] of the story. [88:16] We have non-citizen people, Native Americans, [88:22] who fought for the United States of America in the Civil War [88:26] from Michigan. [88:27] A very famous Company K of Native Americans, [88:33] not citizens, who fought for us, those who were citizens. [88:37] So it's another amazing story. [88:39] But I think that's part of the aspect, [88:41] is this sort of influx from New England, this chip [88:43] on our shoulder, this great natural resources, [88:46] farmland is rich. [88:48] The Land Grant Act forms new colleges. [88:54] The Homestead Act enables people to buy property cheaply. [88:59] And so this is a fertile place to begin a new life, [89:04] begin a new future. [89:06] And then you go out to a place like Covert, Michigan [89:09] on the west side of the state. [89:11] And you've got a community of whites and Blacks [89:14] who have lived together in harmony for 150 years, [89:18] and that's bred into their DNA. [89:21] And if that were only the case statewide, nationwide. [89:27] But that's a great story to think about. [89:29] So bad answer to a great question, [89:33] but maybe I've touched the hem of the garment there. [89:37] Thanks. [89:38] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I think on that note, we're just about [89:40] out of time. [89:41] So let me say, thank you all for joining us this evening. [89:44] Thanks as well to Greg Parker, who's [89:46] hiding in the corner over there, the Director of the Detroit [89:49] observatory for monitoring our live stream, [89:51] and also the wonderful Michigan Media [89:53] Team who's recording and broadcasting this talk. [89:57] Tonight's session will be available online on YouTube [90:00] in about a week. [90:01] It will be shared through email with everybody who registered, [90:04] both virtually and in person. [90:06] And we will be back here at "Making Michigan" [90:09] on November 12, when Greg Dooley will be joining us to discuss [90:12] the history of a very different organization than the Union [90:15] Army-- [90:15] the National Collegiate Athletic Association-- [90:18] [LAUGHTER] [90:19] --better known as the NCAA, and the University of Michigan's [90:22] long and shall we say, tangled history with them. [90:25] But for those of you who are here [90:26] in the observatory this evening, the original observatory [90:30] upstairs and the exhibit, which we absolutely [90:32] did not ask him to plug, are both available [90:35] and will be open until about 8 o'clock this evening. [90:38] The exhibit is called "Fill the Ranks-- [90:40] the Civil War and the University of Michigan." [90:42] And I will also agree, it's really cool. [90:44] So if you have a chance, please visit it. [90:48] We have an incredible set of student docents [90:50] who can lead tours, who can answer all the questions I [90:52] would just be lying about. [90:54] It's really great. [90:55] And if you're not with us in person, [90:56] I hope you can join us in person sometime soon. [91:00] Otherwise, have a wonderful evening. [91:01] Thank you so much. [91:02] [APPLAUSE] [91:03] JACK DEMPSEY: Thanks, Andrew. [91:04] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That was amazing. [91:05] You did a great job. [91:06] JACK DEMPSEY: Thank you.