Michigan and the American Civil War (with audio descriptions)

密歇根州与美国内战（含音频解说） 历史学家杰克·登普西（Jack Dempsey）全面审视了密歇根州在内战前、内战期间及战后的广泛政治、经济和军事影响。他记述了该州的反奴隶制渊源——从共和党在杰克逊的建立到“地下铁路”的秘密路线——以及其大规模的军队动员（向各大战区输送了约9万名士兵）。登普西重点提及了多元群体的重大贡献，包括美国第102有色人种步兵团、美洲原住民神枪手以及守卫大后方的女性，同时还记述了密歇根第4骑兵团俘获美利坚联盟国总统杰斐逊·戴维斯等著名战绩。此外，他还探讨了战时经济动员、“战时州长”奥斯汀·布莱尔（Austin Blair）治下的政治斗争，以及内战公共纪念与纪念碑的深远遗产。 在1860年密歇根州75万总人口中，南北战争期间约有9万名士兵参军入伍，其中约1.4万至1.5万人因战斗负伤或军营疾病在服役中身亡。 (33:36) 1865年5月，由前密歇根大学学生本杰明·普里查德（Benjamin Pritchard）中校率领的密歇根第4骑兵团在佐治亚州俘获了逃亡的联盟国总统杰斐逊·戴维斯。 (47:09) 密歇根州沿密歇根中央铁路动员了1400多名黑人志愿者，组建了密歇根第1有色人种步兵团（后被指定为美国第102有色人种部队/USCT），该团曾在深南部参与实战。 (40:03) 战前不久开发的密歇根上半岛铜矿和铁矿为联邦军械及战时制造业提供了关键的原生金属，主要通过五大湖水路运输。 (17:28)

Historian Jack Dempsey argues that Michigan played a pivotal ideological, economic, and military role in the American Civil War, viewing the conflict as a defining test of national unity and universal human rights. Political Realignment and Radical Anti-Slavery Origins (9:40) Michigan’s commitment against involuntary servitude was rooted in the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 and reinforced in its initial state constitution. The political landscape was long led by Lewis Cass, the Democratic architect of territorial popular sovereignty. However, federal compromises permitting local expansion of slavery fractured the state's traditional parties, leading anti-slavery Whigs, Free Soilers, and former Democrats to establish the Republican Party in Jackson, Michigan, in 1854. In the 1860 and 1864 presidential elections, Michigan backed Abraham Lincoln with 57% and 56.6% of the vote respectively, rejecting secession. Mobilization, Combat Roles, and Specialized Units (44:17) Following the attack on Fort Sumter in April 1861, Michigan exceeded Lincoln’s initial request for a single regiment, ultimately deploying roughly 90,000 soldiers out of an antebellum population of 750,000 across every major theater. These forces included approximately 30 infantry regiments, 13 cavalry regiments, and specialized units like the Michigan Engineers and Mechanics and the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters. Notably, the 4th Michigan Cavalry captured Confederate President Jefferson Davis in Georgia in May 1865, ending hopes of organized Confederate revival. African American Service and Homefront Realities (20:47) Before the war, Michigan served as a critical corridor on the Underground Railroad, guiding escapees like William Dollarson to Detroit and across the river into Windsor, Ontario. Even while enduring racial hostility at home—including an 1863 draft riot on Detroit's East Side sparked by false allegations against a Black man—over 1,400 Black men enlisted. They formed the 1st Michigan Colored Infantry (later federalized as the 102nd United States Colored Troops) and fought in coastal campaigns across South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, facing extreme dangers such as summary execution or re-enslavement if captured. Agrarian Logistics and Wartime Sacrifice (17:28) Antebellum Michigan functioned primarily as an agricultural breadbasket, but the conflict also accelerated the industrial extraction of Upper Peninsula copper and iron, which were ferried along Great Lakes waterways to Union foundries. On the home front, women sustained daily survival by managing family finances, operating farms, working in offices, and even serving as war correspondents or soldiers in disguise. The human toll was severe, with an estimated 14,000 to 15,000 Michiganders succumbing to wounds and disease, prompting the spread of local town monuments and transforming postwar medical standards. Postwar Politics and Debates Over Commemoration (67:35) Returning veterans organized into an influential Republican voting bloc that shaped state politics for decades while demanding institutional support for combat trauma and physical injuries. Addressing modern commemoration controversies, Dempsey distinguishes Michigan's lack of Lost Cause monuments from debates over Union statues, specifically the George Armstrong Custer monument in Monroe. Dempsey cautions against the removal of monuments based on subsequent federal Indian Wars policies, recommending instead that communities preserve historical memorials while adding contextual educational plaques. Dempsey concludes that Michigan’s intense Union allegiance was shaped by its early struggle to secure statehood during the Toledo War and by leaders like Governor Austin Blair, though fully accounting for the war's casualties and preserving neglected minority monuments remain active historical challenges.

历史学者 Jack Dempsey 指出，密歇根州凭借其根深蒂固的反奴隶制传统、农业与矿业资源，以及在共和党诞生过程中的关键政治角色，成为支撑联邦赢得南北战争并在战后重塑国家制度的重要支柱。 反奴隶制传统与共和党的诞生 (9:40) 密歇根州对奴隶制的抵制根植于其宪政起源。根据1787年《西北土地法令》，该地区严禁非自愿劳役，这一禁令随后被直接写入该州宪法。19世纪50年代，由密歇根州民主党领袖 Lewis Cass 推动的“人民主权”原则破坏了联邦对奴隶制扩张的地理限制，激化了全国与地方矛盾。Dempsey 阐明，为了对抗奴隶制的扩张，前民主党人、自由土地党人和辉格党人于1854年在密歇根州杰克逊（Jackson）集会，正式组建了共和党。 这一政治重组让密歇根州迅速转变为共和党的坚固阵营。在1860年和1864年的总统选举中，密歇根州选民分别以57%和56.6%的得票率支持 Abraham Lincoln。Dempsey 认为，该州民众在战时维持对 Lincoln 和废奴主张的高度支持，证明其始终拒绝妥协或接受国家分裂，在政治上奠定了坚定维护联邦的基调。 前线军事动员与重大战役贡献 (27:31) 1861年萨姆特堡事件爆发后，密歇根州的政治分歧迅速转变为捍卫联邦的压倒性共识。尽管联邦政府最初仅要求该州动员一个团，但志愿者的报名人数远超预期。全州人口约75万，战争期间共有约9万人服役，组建了约30个步兵团和13个骑兵团。然而，惨烈的战争夺去了1.4万至1.5万名密歇根士兵的生命，伤亡率极其沉重，但 Dempsey 指出，由于19世纪战地医疗统计和失踪人员记录的不完备，实际牺牲人数可能更高。 在军事指挥与重大战役方面，密歇根部队活跃于东部、西部及跨密西西比各大战场。第17密歇根步兵团在1862年南山战役中因强攻石墙阵地而获称“石墙团”，为安提坦战役奠定基础；由密歇根大学前学生 Benjamin Pritchard 中校指挥的第4密歇根骑兵团，于1865年在佐治亚州成功捕获逃亡的联盟国总统 Jefferson Davis，彻底瓦解了叛军重组政权的企图。战时州长 Austin Blair 则因倾注个人资产、极力支持战备并坚定主张普遍人权与废奴，被誉为“战时州长”。 地下铁道与非裔官兵的严峻历练 (20:47) 战前，密歇根州依托与加拿大仅隔底特律河的地缘优势，成为地下铁道逃亡路线上的枢纽终点。例如摆脱奴役的 William Dollarson 在抵达底特律后成为“向导”，协助逃奴穿越边境进入英国管辖的加拿大避难。尽管联邦《逃奴追缉法》规定严苛惩罚，南密歇根各县依然形成了深入社区的秘密救援网络。 战时密歇根州的非裔社区不仅要在后方承受种族敌意——包括1863年因征兵引发的底特律种族暴动——还积极投身前线。当地组建的密歇根第1有色人种步兵团随后改编为联邦正规军第102美国有色人种步兵团（USCT），动员超过1400人。该团被派往南卡罗来纳州等地作战，并在霍尼希尔战役（Honey Hill）中表现英勇。Dempsey 强调，非裔士兵在深南部作战面临被俘即遭处决或重沦为奴的致命危险，其牺牲体现了对平等自由的深切追求。 后方生产、大湖物流与女性力量 (50:52) 内战期间的密歇根州仍以农业经济为主，广袤的乡村扮演了联邦军队后勤粮仓的角色。随着前线对军工制造需求激增，该州上半岛蕴藏的铜矿和铁矿被深度发掘。由于当时缺乏跨陆路交通和麦基诺大桥，这些关键矿产完全经由五大湖水路运输至东部工厂；底特律至布法罗的伊利湖航线，也成为远比早期铁路更为高效的军队调度走廊。 大批青壮年男性奔赴战场，促使留守家庭的女性全面接管社会运转。密歇根妇女不仅操持繁重的农耕劳作与财务管理，还大量进入商店、办公室填补劳动缺口，甚至担任战地记者和随军护士。Dempsey 指出，后方女性展现出的独立管理与经济决策能力，深刻打破了19世纪对女性角色的传统认知限制。 战后政治重建与公共记忆的争议 (60:00) 内战结束后，数万名复员老兵组成了极具影响力的政治团体，使密歇根州在19世纪后半叶长期成为共和党的基本盘。同时，退伍军人救济与伤残照料的需求推动了医学发展，密歇根大学和安阿伯市借此确立了科学化的临床诊疗标准，淘汰了早期的粗糙疗法。此外，工业重心开始成形，底特律在汽车工业崛起前就已成为全国领先的火炉制造与种子生产基地。 围绕战争记忆的纪念物遍布全州，但也引发了关于历史人物评价的讨论。针对门罗市（Monroe）乔治·阿姆斯特朗·卡斯特（George Armstrong Custer）骑马雕像的拆除争议，Dempsey 解释称，该雕像最初由密歇根骑兵旅老兵出资设立，旨在纪念其在击败邦联、终结奴隶制中的战功。他认为，处理具有历史争议的联邦将领纪念碑时，应当通过补充历史背景标牌而非直接拆除，以完整保留后人汲取历史教训的物质载体。 Dempsey 总结强调，南北战争是美国的“第二次革命”，验证了建国宣言中人人平等的原则。密歇根州早年在托莱多战争（Toledo War）中的受挫经历与艰苦建州历程，塑造了其顽强的政治韧性，使该州在挽救联邦分裂的历史关头发挥了不可替代的作用。

[27:31] Jack Dempsey: The minority doesn't get to take their ball and go home. [46:35] Jack Dempsey: The Michigan Cavalry Brigade consisted of four Michigan horse soldier regiments, and they really, I would argue, and I think other historians have said this, is the preeminent Union cavalry force in the war.

[0:15] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Welcome to "Making Michigan," [0:17] the Bentley Historical Library series on the history [0:20] of the University of Michigan. [0:26] I'm Andrew Rutledge, the Bentley's in-house historian, [0:29] and I'm very pleased to welcome you all this evening, either [0:31] in person or virtually, to the historic Judy and Stanley [0:35] Frankel Detroit Observatory, a division of the Bentley. [0:38] I'd also like to extend a special welcome this evening [0:41] to all of the U of M alumni who have joined us [0:43] and want to thank the Alumni Association of the University [0:46] of Michigan's Lifelong Learning program [0:48] for co-sponsoring this program. [0:50] I'd also like to thank the University [0:52] of Michigan's US at 250 initiative [0:57] for also supporting tonight's event. [0:59] Thank you all for joining us on what's really not [1:02] the nicest Thursday evening. [1:04] But this evening, I think we really have a very interesting [1:07] and exciting conversation, because this year, [1:10] the United States is celebrating 2 and 1/2 centuries since it [1:13] declared its independence and became an independent new [1:16] nation. [1:17] But that nature of that nation, and in particular, [1:20] that vital question, to steal directly [1:22] from Abraham Lincoln, of whether such a nation could [1:24] endure permanently half-slave and half-free, [1:28] remained undecided. [1:30] And the answer to that question, thankfully, [1:31] was definitively no, it could not long remain. [1:35] But it required four years of terrible bloodshed [1:38] to decide just what sort of nation [1:39] the United States would be. [1:41] And that Civil War not only ended slavery [1:44] in the United States, but fundamentally changed [1:46] America in innumerable ways that still echo today socially, [1:50] politically, economically, culturally, and probably [1:53] a bunch of other ways. [1:55] And the young state of Michigan played a vital role [1:58] in the Union's victory in that war, [2:00] both on and off the battlefield. [2:02] And the memories of that conflict [2:04] echoed long after the guns fell silent. [2:07] Here this evening to talk with us [2:09] about that conflict and its many legacies in Michigan [2:11] is historian Jack Dempsey. [2:25] Jack is an award-winning author who [2:26] has written 11 books, uncountable articles, [2:29] and innumerable talks to academic and general audiences, [2:33] as well as serving as president of the Michigan Historical [2:35] Commission and the Michigan Civil War Association. [2:38] He has a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science [2:40] from Michigan State University, which is OK, [2:43] we'll allow that, and a law degree from George Washington [2:46] University. [2:47] Please join me in welcoming Jack Dempsey. [2:52] JACK DEMPSEY: Thanks. [2:52] [APPLAUSE] [2:56] Thanks for that introduction, I think. [2:58] [LAUGHTER] [3:00] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: We don't play Michigan State in football [3:02] for a month or something, so it's fine. [3:04] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, I have to answer this because my parents, [3:06] as you know, both graduated from Michigan, one with a PhD [3:11] and the other one with a degree that she then forfeited [3:14] when I was born. [3:17] And then my son graduated from here with two degrees. [3:19] So actually, I say I spent more money here [3:22] in Ann Arbor for college tuition than I did at Michigan State. [3:27] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Well, welcome back. [3:29] JACK DEMPSEY: Thank you. [3:46] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So I want to just open [3:47] asking, what is the Michigan Civil War Association? [3:57] JACK DEMPSEY: It is a nonprofit, 501(c)3 founded in 2013, [4:03] so in the middle of the sesquicentennial of the Civil [4:07] War, to do further work to establish, [4:13] educate people about the legacy of Michigan in the Civil War [4:17] and around the Civil War. [4:19] It originated from us being asked at the Michigan Historical [4:23] Commission to do a commemoration of Michigan's role [4:28] at the Battle of Antietam in September of 1862, [4:33] a battle that for many years has been overlooked. [4:37] Gettysburg gets all the attention, [4:39] but Antietam is the battle that really changed [4:43] the course of the war, because five days after the battle, [4:48] President Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation [4:51] Proclamation, and that declared that people who [4:56] were enslaved on and after January 1 [5:00] would be thence forever freed. [5:10] And so without that proclamation, [5:12] we wouldn't have had emancipation on January 1. [5:15] Without the victory of the Union forces at Antietam on September [5:19] 17 of 1862, there would not have been a reason to issue it [5:24] or a basis for its issuance. [5:26] So you can draw a direct line from the battle, the outcome, [5:30] to emancipation. [5:32] And Michigan played a key role there. [5:34] But unlike Gettysburg and other battlefields [5:37] and other locations, there's nothing that commemorates [5:41] Michigan's role there. [5:42] There's no monument. [5:44] So several of us Civil War nut cases decided, [5:51] let's see if we can try to rectify that. [5:54] And so it's been a long effort, and we're still [5:56] working on erecting a monument to Michigan's role [6:00] there in Sharpsburg, Maryland, Western Maryland, [6:03] to this really seminal victory on the part of Union forces [6:07] that changed the war from merely one [6:09] to restore the Union, which was a great purpose, [6:12] but also to end slavery in America. [6:18] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So I want to talk a little more [6:20] about Antietam later. [6:20] But the question I have is, you talked about the 150th [6:25] anniversary, creating a Memorial at Antietam, [6:28] but that leads to a larger question-- [6:35] why study, why commemorate the Civil War now? [6:39] JACK DEMPSEY: So I understood your question, Andrew, [6:41] because you asked it to me in English. [6:45] But for an America that emerged from the Civil War [6:49] and became an industrial powerhouse, [6:51] became an international force that [6:54] was the real winner of the two-ocean war between 1941 [7:00] and 1945, without America's role in World War II, [7:05] we'd probably be speaking a romance language [7:07] or some other language because it was that united nation that [7:13] then emerged as, as I said, the powerhouse that [7:17] was able to effectuate victory in World War II. [7:21] If we ended up with two different nations [7:24] at the end of the Civil War, and perhaps more after that-- [7:27] because if you validate the ability of one [7:30] part of the country to partition itself, secede from the Union, [7:35] why can't others? [7:37] Here in Michigan, people up in the UP [7:38] have talked about seceding for many years-- with justification, [7:42] I might add. [7:43] [LAUGHTER] [7:44] But I don't want them to secede succeed. [7:46] I want this to be one Michigan. [7:49] And also this idea about liberation and emancipation [7:54] and fulfilling the great language, the great message, [8:00] the great theme of the Declaration of Independence-- [8:03] all men, all people are created equal, endowed by their creator [8:07] with inalienable rights. [8:10] These are rights that cannot be taken away. [8:12] They're not given to you by a king. [8:14] They're not given to you by a government. [8:16] It's just the other way around. [8:17] Government is created to protect those rights. [8:20] So that's what the Union, the United States of America, [8:23] the Constitution was all about. [8:26] And so if that had been jettisoned [8:30] as a result of the outcome of the war, [8:32] what would America be like today? [8:33] Would there be one America? [8:35] Would there be multiple Americas? [8:37] Or would there be a society that still had many parts of it, [8:43] like South Africa had just in the near past with apartheid, [8:48] and so forth? [8:48] So I think without the Civil War, [8:51] the second American Revolution, so to speak, [8:54] we would not be sitting here today talking like we are. [8:58] And that's why we have to venerate, I believe, [9:02] those who made those sacrifices for us so that we could [9:05] sit here, we could talk about this in freedom, with liberty. [9:09] And that's why I've been interested in this whole thing [9:12] since I was a wee lad, literally, [9:17] before, certainly in the third grade. [9:20] I've been interested in it ever since. [9:24] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: It's really hard to argue with any of that. [9:27] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] See, I was a lawyer once, [9:29] and I have conclusive arguments. [9:31] Thank you for coming. [9:32] [LAUGHTER] [9:33] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I've been very much told no lawyer questions, [9:36] so we'll not talk about legal issues during the war too much. [9:40] But understanding the Civil War you [9:43] have to understand how it came about. [9:46] And so I want to talk about, it did not just start in 1861. [9:51] It was very clearly being built up [9:53] since the Declaration of Independence, if not before. [9:57] But events really seemed to escalate in the 1850s. [10:01] Could you talk a little about what happened in that decade, [10:04] and then maybe we could turn to Michigan in that period? [10:16] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [10:16] So there was the issue of when a community, a potential state, [10:24] applied for admission into the Union, [10:26] would that state come into the Union [10:28] as a free state or a slave state? [10:32] And because there was a balance of power dating back [10:35] to the origin of the country, it became the practice, really, [10:39] to admit a duality so that there would not be an imbalance, so [10:44] that the free states could not overpower the slave states [10:47] and vice versa. [10:49] But in 1854, a proposal was offered [10:54] to allow each territory to decide that, [10:57] and that would be conclusive on Congress. [10:59] So no more would there be this duality. [11:03] Plus, there was kind of an unspoken principle [11:08] that a state above a certain latitude or longitude [11:12] would not be amenable to slavery. [11:15] So that threw everything out the window. [11:17] And those who were against slavery but were tolerating it, [11:22] really got angry and swung into action. [11:28] So in 1854, here in Jackson, a group [11:33] of people from different political parties [11:36] got together and formed a fusion party, [11:39] and they called it the Republican Party. [11:42] So Wisconsin claims that it was the birthplace, [11:44] but we know what cheeseheads are all about, [11:48] so we clearly know it originated here. [11:51] We have markers, and if you see a state historical marker, [11:54] you know it must be true. [11:55] But that's really what happened, is it was a quiescent issue, [11:59] it was tolerated more or less. [12:02] But in the middle of the 1850s it came to the fore. [12:05] And now you had a party dedicated to the proposition [12:08] that slavery should not be extended, [12:11] it should not go into the territories west of Mississippi, [12:15] like Kansas. [12:17] Kansas should be a free state. [12:19] Well, that resulted in violence because pro-slavery advocates [12:23] went into that state to try to control [12:25] the outcome of its admission. [12:27] And then violence broke out. [12:29] And so things really went downhill. [12:32] There was violence in Congress between members [12:34] who disagreed on this. [12:36] And then John Brown famously led a revolt or insurrection [12:41] that captured a federal property in Harper's Ferry, Virginia, [12:45] to try to motivate those who were enslaved [12:49] to fight for their freedom. [12:51] It didn't go anywhere. [12:52] He was captured with his followers right away [12:55] and executed for treason to Virginia, which is interesting. [12:59] I don't think he was a citizen. [13:00] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: He was not a citizen from there. [13:01] JACK DEMPSEY: No, he was not a citizen of Virginia, [13:03] but he was convicted of that. [13:05] So that was kind of a rallying cry. [13:07] And out of that came the presidential contest in 1860, [13:12] where you had the first real, I would [13:14] say, viable Republican candidate for president-- [13:17] Abraham Lincoln. [13:19] And the Democrats split. [13:21] They had three different candidates. [13:22] So they split their own supporters into groups, [13:26] and Lincoln won. [13:28] So what had happened ever since the founding of the country [13:31] was-- the election happens, the electoral college meets, there's [13:36] a tally, and then the president gets sworn in, right? [13:42] Well, as soon as the election results were announced, [13:45] South Carolina held a convention, [13:48] and a number of leaders there decided [13:51] we're not going to be part of the Union anymore. [13:53] We know what's going to happen. [13:54] Lincoln's going to come into office, [13:56] slavery is going to be done, which was a huge jump, [14:00] because it's not clear how he could do that [14:02] under the Constitution. [14:04] But they seceded. [14:06] Other states followed. [14:07] And so by the inauguration of Lincoln in March of '61, [14:11] you have a number of states forming [14:14] a Confederacy of slave states designed [14:17] to protect slavery and have their own nation. [14:21] That's where Michigan is on the other side of the fence. [14:26] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I read somewhere-- [14:27] and I really feel bad I can't remember who said it-- [14:29] who described South Carolina as too small to be a nation, too [14:33] large to be an insane asylum. [14:37] [LAUGHTER] [14:37] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [14:39] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: But if we can backtrack [14:40] just a little chronologically. [14:43] So you said the Republican Party was founded here [14:46] in Michigan in Jackson in 1854. [14:48] Why Michigan? [14:49] Why did they meet here? [14:51] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, that's a good question, [14:53] because historically it was more or less a Democratic Party [14:57] state. [14:58] And the leader of that was Lewis Cass. [15:01] He was the most-- [15:03] there you go-- the most famous Michigander, really. [15:05] In fact, "Michigander" was a term that Abraham Lincoln coined [15:09] with regard to Cass kind of to denigrate him as some [15:12] goose/gander figure. [15:19] I love that term though, because it's Lincolnian. [15:21] So I am a Michigander. [15:23] And Cass also really was the founder [15:26] of this popular sovereignty doctrine, [15:28] that let's let the territories decide if they [15:30] want to be slave or free. [15:31] So, Cass, the Democrats really run Michigan up [15:34] until about 1850 or so, and then you [15:38] have this disaffection with him, the idea [15:43] that slavery is permissible in this country, this nation. [15:47] And so people from different groups, Free Soilers, [15:51] Whigs come together and they found this new party. [15:56] And that is related to the Underground [15:58] Railroad and this whole heritage of freedom in Michigan. [16:02] Because of the 1787 Northwest Ordinance [16:06] under which Michigan got organized [16:08] as a territory, as did Ohio and so forth, [16:12] there was a prohibition on involuntary servitude [16:15] in our founding and then in our original Constitution. [16:20] So from the start, even though we [16:22] did have slavery in Michigan because [16:24] of French and British antecedents, [16:28] this was a state founded on the principle [16:31] that there will not be slavery authorized in this state. [16:36] So that Free Soil heritage really grew and grew. [16:39] And as more people came into Michigan in the 1830s, [16:44] '40s, and '50s from other free states, [16:47] that heritage grew and blossomed. [16:50] The Erie Canal had a lot to do with that, [16:52] so that's something we might mention. [16:54] The population of Michigan in 1830, I believe it was 30,000. [17:00] And by 1860, it's 750,000. [17:05] So that's not all generated out of natural birth. [17:08] That's a lot of immigration, [LAUGHS] [17:10] and that whole heritage. [17:12] And people and leaders came from other states [17:14] to Michigan, because this was a place [17:16] they could be assured to announce [17:18] their views against slavery and to help escapees [17:22] from slavery through the Underground Railroad. [17:24] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: OK, well, you gave me a great opening [17:27] to my next question, then. [17:28] So what was Michigan socially, economically in the 1850s? [17:34] So it sounds like it's really growing. [17:36] But this is, of course, way before the automobile Industrial [17:39] Revolution. [17:40] So what was Michigan like in that period? [17:42] JACK DEMPSEY: It was very rural mostly, very farm agrarian, [17:46] mostly, population, mostly down here in the southern tier [17:50] of counties. [17:52] If you went north to, say, Lansing-- very sparsely [17:55] populated. [17:56] The Upper Peninsula not yet really widely known [18:00] for its natural resources, but that's [18:03] something that's developed during the war, [18:05] as copper and iron become very important to a war effort. [18:10] So you could almost look to the Civil War [18:13] as the reason why the UP first gains its economic strength, [18:19] such as it has been. [18:21] So it's agrarian. [18:22] It's split pretty equally between men and women. [18:26] We do have some institutions like the university here. [18:29] But by and large, it's still in development. [18:32] And Detroit itself is a very small city. [18:36] By 1860, I believe it's less than 50,000, [18:41] or 50,000 approximately, if I remember right. [18:48] And then most of the people that end up enlisting in the war [18:52] are not autoworkers. [18:55] They're not working on a line. [18:57] They're from farms. [18:58] They're from occupations that are not urban, so to speak. [19:06] There are office workers and so forth, [19:08] but it's mostly an agrarian place. [19:10] And Michigan does become part of the feeding apparatus [19:16] to sustain the armies by growing crops [19:18] and sending them to soldiers at the front. [19:22] I hope that helps. [19:23] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: No, it does. [19:24] And I always find myself when anybody's [19:26] talking about populations, comparing that [19:28] to Michigan Stadium. [19:37] So it's kind of crazy to think that the entire population [19:40] of Detroit would barely fill half of Michigan's football [19:44] stadium. [19:45] It's not a big place. [19:46] JACK DEMPSEY: It's not a big place. [19:48] And in 1860, if I recall correctly, [19:53] it's been moving from 20th of the 26 or 27 states, [19:58] up to 16th to 13th. [20:00] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: In population? [20:01] JACK DEMPSEY: Population of the states. [20:03] And so it's growing, and growing a little faster [20:06] than some other states, which is understandable. [20:09] Delaware-- obviously a very geographically limited state. [20:13] But it continues to grow. [20:14] And I think by 1900, it's in the top 10 states in the Union. [20:19] And this is because, I would argue, this heritage of freedom, [20:24] of liberty. [20:24] You can come here, you can buy land, you can launch a career, [20:31] you can find opportunities. [20:33] And it's all because of this heritage of liberty [20:36] that dates way back to the same year [20:39] that the Constitution is being drafted in Philadelphia. [20:42] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Building on that theme, [20:47] you mentioned the Underground Railroad in Michigan. [20:51] Can you talk a little more about that? [20:54] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [20:55] We are an Underground Railroad heritage state. [20:58] We've had a commission to try to commemorate [21:01] that for a number of years. [21:04] We have sites. [21:05] There's a site here in Ann Arbor. [21:06] And it's hard to document these sites because these [21:08] are where people who were helping the self-emancipated who [21:16] were putting themselves at risk. [21:17] This is a crime, federal crime, typically. [21:21] And so you didn't really want to hang a shingle out front saying, [21:26] "Underground Railroad haven." [21:28] And it also would, I suppose, lead slave catchers [21:32] right to the door of where someone's trying to escape. [21:35] So there were routes through Michigan, [21:37] and largely because of Detroit being on the border with Canada, [21:41] with the river. [21:41] All you have to do is cross that river, [21:43] if you can figure out how to do it, [21:45] and you're in another country. [21:46] And Canada did not extradite previously enslaved people back [21:52] to the US. [21:52] So great opportunity to make your way to freedom [21:57] through Michigan with people helping [21:59] all along the southern tier of counties [22:00] and here in Washtenaw County as well, and all [22:03] the way to Plymouth, where I live, and then to Detroit. [22:06] And one of the people I've written about [22:08] is an amazing individual. [22:10] His name is William Dollarson. [22:12] He was a slave in Virginia. [22:14] He was sold down to New Orleans, then put [22:18] on a horrendous plantation in Natchez, Mississippi, [22:22] escaped up the Mississippi River, ended up in Detroit, [22:26] and became a conductor on the Underground Railroad, [22:29] helping people who got to his locale [22:33] to escape over to Windsor. [22:37] And he's an individual who served [22:40] in the military in the Civil War, not in a uniform, [22:43] but as part of a general's staff. [22:46] And so he came full circle, through Michigan, [22:49] to the battlefront, until some of his comrades said, [22:54] "What are you doing? [22:56] You're here in Virginia. [22:58] If you're captured in the next battle, [23:01] you won't go to a prison camp. [23:03] You'll either be enslaved again or--" so he came back [23:06] to Detroit. [23:07] And it's a great story. [23:08] And it kind of, I think, typifies [23:10] the environment, the locale that Detroit [23:14] was, that Michigan was in terms of helping people [23:17] to the same level of liberty that the rest of us [23:21] had who were not enslaved at that time. [23:23] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Was there much of [23:25] an African-American population in the state in that period? [23:28] JACK DEMPSEY: No, there wasn't. [23:30] And there were some who were born free, [23:34] and some who had escaped here, and some communities that [23:37] were harmonious, and then in Detroit, just [23:41] like for many years afterwards, an enclave of African heritage [23:47] folks who ended up in the middle of the war [23:49] in the midst of a riot because of people who blamed them [23:53] for the war. [23:55] Well, they then were allowed to actually serve [23:58] for the first time officially in a US Army uniform. [24:04] And so we did have a large regiment of Black troops [24:08] that were recruited here in Michigan [24:11] that went off to the front. [24:12] In fact, they went to the Deep South. [24:14] And if that isn't bravery, I don't know [24:16] what is, because that's the-- [24:20] I don't know-- the breadbasket of slavery or something, [24:23] where it's so far away, it's hard to make your way back [24:26] to freedom. [24:27] And they fought in actions against Confederates. [24:30] And some were killed in battle. [24:32] Many died of disease, sacrificed just like other Americans. [24:41] And it's quite an experience to go to a national battlefield [24:45] cemetery in, say Beaufort, South Carolina, [24:49] and walk among the tombstones, and see people, men, [24:55] from Michigan, who are buried there under a United States [24:59] Colored Troops marker. [25:02] And to think that these men fought, [25:08] died for me, for me today, for me born in 1952, [25:13] so that I could have the same freedom. [25:17] I mean, it just sends tingles up the back of my spine [25:20] just talking about it right now. [25:22] So this heritage of Blacks fighting for freedom [25:26] is part of Michigan's history, and one that really we [25:29] should appreciate, just like any other aspect of the Civil War [25:33] story. [25:34] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: OK. [25:35] Well, I definitely want to come back to that. [25:37] But I'm just trying to think of this chronologically. [25:40] So the election of 1860 is the big sort of tipping point, [25:44] it seems like. [25:45] Let me ask you this. [25:46] Who did Michigan vote for? [25:48] JACK DEMPSEY: Michigan voted for Abraham Lincoln, [25:51] and I have the statistics, 57% to 42%. [25:55] So that's a pretty significant margin of victory. [25:58] And the 42% went to Stephen A. Douglas, [26:02] who was a very prominent Democrat from Illinois, [26:05] "The Little Giant," so-called, his nickname. [26:08] And so he was the Democratic candidate for the North. [26:12] There were others for other aspects of the election. [26:16] So that's a very significant vote. [26:18] And Michigan had become a Republican state [26:22] at the state level for governor and state legislature. [26:25] But this is the second time it went for a Republican candidate, [26:28] but overwhelmingly, and therefore cast [26:31] its electoral votes for Lincoln to enable [26:34] him to become president. [26:37] Four years later, he also was voted-- [26:39] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I was going to ask. [26:40] JACK DEMPSEY: --in the majority. [26:41] Less so-- it was 56.6%. [26:45] But still, you see despite the war and all of the casualties [26:49] and all of the trauma, Michigan continued [26:52] to be a state that voted for union, [26:57] and in 1864 had a choice-- do I vote for emancipation [27:01] or do I vote for the old way? [27:04] Do I vote for the opponent of Lincoln, whose campaign [27:07] platform really was-- [27:09] let's restore the Union as it was? [27:12] And Michigan cast their electoral votes [27:16] for Lincoln and the Republican emancipation program. [27:21] So something also to think of as, I think, [27:25] as a matter of pride. [27:26] We didn't vote for secession, dissolution of the Union. [27:31] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Well, we didn't vote for it. [27:33] But how did Michiganders react when [27:36] South Carolina sort of stomped their feet and stormed out? [27:41] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, there was initially [27:43] a difference of opinion. [27:44] Some said, let's let them go in peace, our errant sister states. [27:54] Others said, no, this is a national issue. [27:59] When there's a vote in a democracy, the majority wins. [28:03] The minority doesn't get to take their ball and go home. [28:08] But everything was changed when there [28:11] was an assault, an attack on a federal fort in Charleston [28:15] Harbor, South Carolina, in April of '61, when Americans shoot [28:24] at the American flag to capture a fort that that banner is [28:30] flying over. [28:31] For most Michiganders, regardless of their views [28:34] on slavery, that was the end. [28:36] That was the tipping point. [28:38] And so the response to the call for volunteers [28:41] to put down this rebellion was very enthusiastic [28:44] on the part of many Michiganders. [28:45] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Called in from Lincoln? [28:46] JACK DEMPSEY: Lincoln called right [28:48] after the surrender of Fort Sumter in April, [28:51] called for volunteers. [28:53] And Michigan overwhelmingly supported that effort. [28:57] We were only asked to raise one regiment, [29:01] and there was a surplus of people that [29:03] wanted to volunteer right away. [29:05] So additional regiments were raised, [29:08] hoping that they might be accepted into federal service. [29:12] And other people didn't wait. [29:13] They went to Illinois, or they went to New York, [29:15] or they went to some other place to enlist. [29:18] And so what you see up there on the screen on the left-hand side [29:23] is Austin Blair, the monument to him in front of the state [29:26] capital in Lansing. [29:37] He was the governor at that point. [29:39] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Republican? [29:40] JACK DEMPSEY: Republican Governor. [29:41] And he was nicknamed ever after as the War Governor of Michigan. [29:47] Because his activity was 100% for union, [29:52] for preservation of the Constitution, [29:54] for putting down the secession, keeping the country united, [29:59] and as a part of that, then, to eliminate slavery. [30:02] This was the opportunity once and for all [30:04] to put to rest this issue of whether involuntary servitude [30:10] could be maintained as an American institution. [30:14] And the war answered that question emphatically no. [30:17] So Blair was an instrumental person, great leader, orator. [30:21] And the association that you asked me about earlier, [30:25] we've published five books. [30:27] It's an annual series, comes out every September coincident [30:31] with Antietam. [30:32] And the last two have been Blair's speeches, remarks, [30:36] letters, public statements. [30:38] And they show the depth of his leadership, [30:42] his courage, his willingness to sacrifice his own fortune. [30:47] He left office in 1865 less well-off [30:51] financially than he was when he got elected. [30:53] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I'm not going to comment on that. [30:55] JACK DEMPSEY: Yeah. [30:56] Wow, what a concept. [30:58] [LAUGHTER] [30:59] So he gave everything for the cause, [31:02] for Michigan, for the Union, and hence his statue [31:06] is appropriate for right in front of the capital, [31:09] looking down Michigan Avenue towards Ann Arbor, [31:13] and is a great individual that I think in this election year, [31:16] we can look to as a model of the kind of leader [31:19] that we hopefully could elect this fall [31:24] and in future elections. [31:26] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So thinking about Austin Blair, [31:29] you mentioned that the Republican platform of the 1860 [31:33] election, it was not to abolish slavery. [31:36] JACK DEMPSEY: Right. [31:37] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Was Blair an abolitionist-- [31:38] JACK DEMPSEY: He was. [31:38] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: --going into the conflict? [31:48] JACK DEMPSEY: He was most definitely an abolitionist. [31:50] He was a human rights advocate. [31:53] He was helpful, a leader in the elimination of capital [31:58] punishment in Michigan. [32:01] So you could say he was a advocate of eliminating [32:09] every kind of ultimate punishment, [32:14] whether that be death, whether that [32:16] be incarceration in the form of enslavement, slavery. [32:22] He was for equal rights, voting rights for Blacks, for women. [32:26] He was for public education. [32:28] He was really a radical individual, radical statesman. [32:32] And that's, in fact, the name of the first book [32:34] that we came out with about him, Radical of Radicals. [32:38] He's kind of the epitome of a radical politician, [32:42] because he's so far out on the equal rights spectrum [32:46] that many thought he was too far out. [32:49] But when he was done with his career, [32:51] he saw many of these things come into being-- not necessarily [32:55] the national vote for women, which is hard to believe. [32:58] We were talking about this earlier. [33:00] It was only in 1920. [33:02] It seems crazy that it was just almost a century ago [33:05] that women got that vote. [33:06] But he advocated for these things [33:08] as part of his liberty-advocating mindset. [33:16] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Interesting. [33:18] I have to read that book. [33:19] I haven't read that one. [33:20] JACK DEMPSEY: Yeah, you should get that book. [33:22] So should everybody. [33:23] [LAUGHTER] [33:23] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So he was obviously very-- [33:27] maybe enthusiastic is the wrong word-- but strongly in support [33:30] of putting down the war that began. [33:31] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [33:33] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: And it sounds like a lot of Michiganders were. [33:36] How many Michiganders enlisted or served during the conflict? [33:39] JACK DEMPSEY: We had approximately 90,000 soldiers. [33:42] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Out of, what did you say it was, 750,000? [33:44] JACK DEMPSEY: 750,000 population, [33:47] so a large proportion of the military-age, eligible people, [33:52] males. [33:53] There were a few women who managed to get into uniform. [33:57] They weren't allowed to, but they managed to do that, [34:00] and documented their service such [34:02] that they ended up getting a pension after the war. [34:08] So that was amazing. [34:10] Black troops, as I said. [34:12] And of the 90,000, it's interesting to think how many [34:17] would come home. [34:20] A full 1/6th of those never came back. [34:24] So roughly 14,000 to 15,000 individuals died from disease [34:30] or from being killed outright in battle or from wounds [34:33] afterwards. [34:35] So one way of thinking of that is, [34:37] back to the Michigan Stadium idea, [34:40] so let's just round up to 100,000. [34:43] Michigan Stadium is full, and you section off 1/6th of it [34:48] and empty that. [34:50] That's the number of people that did not come back [34:53] from military service. [34:56] Another way to look at it is, if we have 10 million Michiganders [34:59] today and 90,000 to 750,000 served, that's about 1/9th. [35:09] But let's round it off again. [35:10] Let's say a million Michiganders are in uniform today. [35:15] That would be astonishing to think what it would do [35:17] to our society, our population. [35:20] And of those million, a 1/6th or a 1/7th would not come home. [35:24] 140,000, 150,000 people would die fighting for their country, [35:30] for their state. [35:31] As you said earlier, it's a bloody war. [35:34] It's a costly war. [35:36] And these numbers are approximate because we did not [35:40] have the same kind of accurate tracking system [35:43] then that we do today. [35:45] So soldiers are recorded as missing. [35:48] They may just be not there the next morning [35:52] when roll is called. [35:54] Maybe they're off in another part of the battlefield. [35:56] Maybe they're hiding from the enemy. [35:58] Maybe they're captured. [36:00] Captured soldiers escaped right away sometimes, [36:04] or within a few days, and came back to the unit. [36:07] And then what about the soldier who's wounded? [36:09] He's in a hospital. [36:10] He's in a hospital for days and then dies. [36:13] Is he counted in these figures? [36:16] So at Antietam, there was a Major General from Michigan, [36:21] Israel Richardson, he was wounded on September 17 [36:26] in the battle by an artillery round. [36:30] He's taken to a house. [36:31] He recuperates. [36:32] His wife comes from Michigan to help him recuperate, [36:36] but he ends up dying weeks later. [36:38] So is he counted in this total number of dead from Michigan [36:43] of 14,000 or so? [36:45] It's difficult to track. [36:46] So we always have to understand that the numbers we're [36:49] working with are approximate and probably understate the cost, [36:54] even as horrendous as these numbers are. [36:57] So it's a war that is very costly to Michigan. [37:03] And that is something that I think [37:05] forms the basis for the memory afterwards, as we look back, [37:09] as Michiganders look back. [37:11] It's not just a few of us went, a few of us [37:13] died, but every community is affected [37:17] by what happens during these four years in the war. [37:21] So I think also up there is another monument. [37:24] We've seen three monuments to Lewis Cass, which, by the way, [37:28] that's in the US Capitol, Statuary Hall. [37:32] Blair in front of the Capitol in Lansing, [37:35] and then Alpheus Williams riding a horse. [37:40] One of his horses was named Plug Ugly. [37:42] [LAUGHTER] [37:44] But that horse looks pretty nice. [37:45] So it's probably not Plug Ugly. [37:47] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Or artistic license. [37:49] JACK DEMPSEY: Or artistic license, yes. [37:51] Williams served through the four years of the war [38:01] and was the preeminent leader, from a military standpoint, [38:07] going into the war. [38:09] But he's pretty old. [38:10] He still volunteers. [38:12] He becomes a general. [38:13] He fights at battles like Antietam and Gettysburg [38:17] in the West, all the way with Sherman in the march [38:20] through Georgia to Savannah and then up through the Carolinas. [38:24] So his service is amazing. [38:26] By the way, I also wrote a book about him, [38:29] so you might want to pick that up. [38:35] I'm full of shameless self promotion moments. [38:38] But he's someone that again, we should look to. [38:41] His statue is on Belle Isle in the Detroit River, Alpheus [38:45] Williams. [38:47] And it's amazing to think that to this day, this date 105 [38:53] years ago, October 15, that statue was dedicated. [38:56] That's the unveiling of that statue to Alpheus Williams. [39:00] So again, memory-- why in 1921, would Michigan [39:07] be erecting statues to Civil War figures? [39:11] Because we had just fought World War I. [39:14] We're still thinking about what this state's all about. [39:18] It's about these principles that date [39:22] from the Declaration of Independence and the Northwest [39:24] Ordinance. [39:25] So we venerate people like Alpheus Williams-- by the way, [39:30] a Democrat, a former Whig who ran for Congress as a Democrat, [39:35] served in the Congress, and died, [39:40] was stricken in the halls of Congress, [39:43] just like John Quincy Adams was stricken. [39:46] So these are stories that I think, I don't know, [39:48] I like them. [39:49] That's why I like talking about them. [39:51] But they're meaningful, they're not just fun to talk about. [39:54] These are people that we, today, our lives [39:57] have been built on their service, their sacrifice, [40:00] that foundation. [40:03] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: And were these 90,000, [40:06] were they all volunteers? [40:08] JACK DEMPSEY: Not all. [40:09] No, there was a draft. [40:17] And to offset that draft, bounties [40:20] were offered both at the state and local level. [40:23] But by and large, most of the 90,000 were volunteers. [40:27] And people volunteered even in late '64 and early '65, [40:32] as the war was maybe coming to a close as it did. [40:36] So even in the last days of the war, [40:38] people were still volunteering to try [40:41] to go fight to be part of this effort [40:44] to unite the country on the basis of liberty and rights [40:50] for all. [40:51] So there was a draft. [40:53] There were riots because people didn't want to be drafted. [40:58] That's part of the story and needs to be told just as well. [41:02] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Speaking of riots, [41:03] you said there was violence aimed at African-Americans [41:07] in Detroit during the war. [41:09] Could you tell us a little more about that? [41:11] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, there was a riot on the East side of Detroit [41:16] in early '63 after the Emancipation Proclamation [41:22] was issued by the president. [41:25] And there was an idea that something unfortunate had [41:30] happened on the part of a Black person against a white woman-- [41:33] typical-- [41:35] which was not true. [41:36] And so this riot occurred and Blacks suffered. [41:42] We've also published that story in our third book. [41:47] So we're trying to tell all aspects of the Civil War story, [41:50] not just, say, the "salute the flag" kind of stories. [41:54] But that did not demotivate Blacks in Detroit. [41:58] It motivated them to want to serve. [42:00] And then there was a recruitment drive all the way [42:02] through the southern tier of counties. [42:06] The Michigan Central Railroad took this regiment [42:12] on a recruiting drive down into the southwestern part [42:16] of the state, and they ended up raising over 1,400 men to serve [42:20] in that unit-- some from other states, [42:22] but mostly from Michigan. [42:24] So that's two sides of the coin, I [42:27] think, tell a great story for how Michigan reacted. [42:34] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: And that, from my understanding, [42:36] is the 102nd Regiment? [42:38] They were called United States Colored Troops, is that right? [42:40] JACK DEMPSEY: Right. [42:41] So they were raised as the first Michigan Colored Infantry [42:44] Regiment. [42:45] But then these regiments were drawn into federal service [42:50] directly. [42:50] They were federalized, I guess you would say. [42:53] So they were part of the United States Colored Troops regiments. [42:58] They were given the number 102nd. [43:01] The most famous Black regiment is the 54th Massachusetts. [43:07] And we had Michiganders who volunteered [43:09] to be part of that regiment, which was featured in the movie [43:12] Glory. [43:13] So you had state designations and federal designations, [43:18] and we have markers to both here in Michigan, [43:20] and we have soldiers in national cemeteries [43:24] in other states from that regiment, as well as in Detroit [43:28] and other cemeteries, Historic Elmwood. [43:31] And I need to mention that because in Elmwood, there's [43:34] a non-segregated section of Civil War graves. [43:37] And I think that epitomizes what the outcome of the war was. [43:41] It's not going to end up with two separate societies, at least [43:45] that was the idea. [43:49] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That was the idea. [43:50] JACK DEMPSEY: That was the idea. [43:56] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Well, I'm also curious. [44:00] You talked about how these African-American troops [44:02] went to the Deep South. [44:04] You mentioned Michiganders played a key role at Antietam [44:07] in Maryland. [44:09] Did Michigan troops end up all over the place, it sounds like? [44:13] Or can you tell a little about where [44:15] they ended up during the war? [44:17] JACK DEMPSEY: Yeah, so how much time do we have? [44:19] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: We got plenty of time. [44:21] JACK DEMPSEY: OK. [44:23] It's hard to do a fair job, but I'll try. [44:28] So the first regiment is raised for 90 days. [44:31] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: This is the 1861? [44:33] JACK DEMPSEY: 1861. [44:34] They go down and fight at the first battle of Bull Run, [44:39] and then their term of enlistment ends. [44:43] So many of them reenlist in the First Michigan infantry [44:47] three-year regiment. [44:49] And that regiment goes all the way [44:52] through the war, all the way to the surrender at Appomattox. [44:57] So kind of from Genesis to Revelation, or soup to nuts, [45:03] or whatever analogy you want. [45:06] You have 30 infantry regiments. [45:10] A regiment's about 1,000 nominally. [45:13] We have, I believe it's 13 cavalry regiments. [45:17] So this goes back to your question-- [45:19] what is Michigan like? [45:20] Do people ride horses in Michigan [45:22] or are they riding horseless carriages? [45:25] It's a very agrarian state with people riding horses. [45:29] Even in Detroit, you have cities, you have buggies. [45:37] People are familiar with horses. [45:38] And Michigan furnishes horses to the Union Army [45:41] as well as cavalry soldiers. [45:44] So we have very famous cavalry units, four of which [45:49] came together into a brigade. [45:52] And a brigade is a collection of regiments. [45:55] The Michigan Cavalry Brigade consisted of four Michigan horse [45:59] soldier regiments. [46:01] And they really, I would argue, and I [46:04] think other historians have said this, [46:06] is the preeminent Union cavalry force in the war. [46:12] They fight at Gettysburg under somebody-- [46:15] I don't know if you've ever heard of George Armstrong [46:17] Custer. [46:18] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: The name rings a bell. [46:19] JACK DEMPSEY: It does? [46:20] OK, that's good. [46:21] His Civil War service is not equaled by any cavalry officer. [46:27] He has this thing after the war out there in the Great Plains. [46:30] But we don't have to talk about that because this [46:32] is about Civil War. [46:34] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That's not in Michigan. [46:34] JACK DEMPSEY: That's not in Michigan or about the Civil War. [46:37] But he's a fearless leader. [46:38] He becomes a boy general. [46:40] He's elevated from captain to general [46:42] on the eve of Gettysburg. [46:44] And he leads this brigade into action against J.E.B. Stuart, [46:49] the Cavalier of the South, and Wade Hampton, who's [46:53] equally famous, and defeats them, [46:56] is part of defeating them at Gettysburg, [46:58] and goes on all the way again to Appomattox, both Custer, [47:03] his brother Tom, and this brigade. [47:06] And so that's part of our heritage. [47:09] The Fourth Michigan Cavalry Regiment fights in the West. [47:15] So you have the Eastern theater, which is really East [47:17] of the Appalachians, and the so-called Western theater, [47:21] which is really between, say, the Mississippi [47:23] and the Appalachians. [47:25] Then you have the trans-Mississippi theater, [47:28] which is the other side of the Mississippi River. [47:30] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: It was a big country. [47:31] JACK DEMPSEY: It was a big country. [47:31] And we had units out there as well. [47:34] But the Fourth is very interesting [47:36] because they're the unit that captures Confederate President [47:42] Jefferson Davis when he's fleeing at the end of the war. [47:47] Lee surrenders at Appomattox in Virginia. [47:50] But Davis, who flees the Confederate capital in Richmond, [47:55] makes it all the way to Georgia to try [47:58] to keep the Confederate government going. [48:00] He's not going to give up. [48:03] Lee recognizes it's over, but Davis does not. [48:08] And maybe he's the opposite of Blair. [48:12] He's the Confederate of Confederates. [48:16] So during his flight, his whereabouts are made known by-- [48:30] I think the story is-- by former slaves telling Union troops [48:36] where his party is. [48:37] And so the Fourth Michigan, along with another regiment, [48:41] captures Davis, making sure there's [48:43] not going to be like Napoleon coming back for a second time [48:49] to be emperor of France. [48:51] They get a reward from the federal government for capturing [48:55] Davis, and their leader is actually [48:58] a U of M student, former student, Benjamin Pritchard, [49:01] if I remember correctly. [49:02] So there's a direct connection here, [49:05] all you alums, to the capture of Jefferson Davis. [49:09] Good job, you all. [49:11] [LAUGHTER] [49:13] And really that's the end of the Confederacy. [49:17] Once the head is gone, he's in federal custody, [49:22] there's not going to be any way that you can resurrect this. [49:26] So that's another aspect of it. [49:28] We had artillery units. [49:30] We had specialized units. [49:31] And one was the Michigan Regiment [49:34] of Engineers and Mechanics, the forerunner to the construction [49:38] battalion units that were in World War II, [49:43] and a regiment of sharpshooters who were raised really [49:48] to try to do that, be marksmen in battle, [49:52] but ended up kind of becoming more or less a regular service [49:57] unit and were in on the final days of Lee's army in Virginia. [50:03] And that's, by the way, what our next book's going to be about. [50:06] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I swear, I'm not asking these questions [50:09] on purpose. [50:09] JACK DEMPSEY: No, but I figured out how I could weave them in. [50:12] Thank you. [50:20] [LAUGHTER] [50:20] Anyway, it's going to be about the Michigan role [50:23] in that final campaign in Virginia [50:25] leading up to the surrender at Appomattox. [50:28] And really, when we're compiling these, [50:31] we don't really know the dimensions. [50:33] I mean, we're learning these stories as well as everybody. [50:37] Our goal is to educate, is to surface [50:40] these untold or little-known stories, like, [50:43] did Michigan play a role in Lee's surrender [50:45] in the end of the Confederacy? [50:47] Yes, it did, a major role, and we [50:49] outlined that in the book that will come out next September. [50:52] So, yeah, a preview of coming attractions. [50:54] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I really appreciate that. [50:56] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] [50:57] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: But leaving the battlefields [50:59] and coming back to the state itself, [51:03] can you talk a little about what the impact of the war was? [51:06] You talked earlier about the UP being developed, starting [51:08] to be developed, and just the sheer absence [51:11] of such a huge fraction of the population. [51:14] What was life like in the state during the conflict? [51:18] JACK DEMPSEY: During the conflict? [51:19] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Yeah. [51:21] JACK DEMPSEY: So with so many soldiers [51:23] gone, who picks up the burden? [51:27] Who picks up the reins of the horse or the mule plowing? [51:32] Who takes control of the family fortune, [51:35] ensuring that the budgets met, kids are fed and taken care of? [51:42] It's women, by and large. [51:45] And so one way of looking at it is, without women, there [51:50] would have been no Civil War. [51:52] That's not really the right way to say it. [51:54] [LAUGHTER] [51:57] But women played a key role. [52:00] A few, as I said, went off to fight. [52:02] Others went to the front to support their husband, [52:05] to be close by. [52:07] Wives of officers sometimes were in camp with them [52:10] during non-battle times. [52:15] But for those who stayed behind, they [52:17] ended up serving in the man's role, who [52:22] was the father, the husband, whatever, but also [52:25] in occupations that were not typically female. [52:29] So maybe they supplied some kind of labor in an office [52:36] or in a shop or something. [52:38] So I think that's the first real taste of how the role of women [52:44] should not be just limited to the kitchen or the farm, [52:49] but they play an important role in sustaining this effort [52:54] to sustain the Union. [52:56] And so there is a societal change. [52:58] And when soldiers come back, there's [53:00] kind of a period of adjustment of things going back [53:04] to so-called normalcy. [53:06] And we have women who played other roles. [53:08] We have a woman who became a reporter in Washington [53:13] and sent dispatches back, talking about what was happening [53:17] in Washington and with the war. [53:19] And there's a book that's been accumulated of her columns. [53:22] And there were memoirs written by some of the women [53:26] who fought at the front, or said they did, or served [53:29] in some other capacity. [53:31] So there's a rich heritage there to be further looked at. [53:36] And letters back and forth between soldiers and the home [53:41] front are a real treasure trove. [53:45] I was privileged to be an editor for some correspondence [53:49] between a soldier who was in this Engineers and Mechanics [53:53] Regiment, and his wife. [53:56] And it's really interesting counterplay [53:59] between the two of them. [54:03] She ends up with more money than he does with his soldier's [54:08] salary, because she's so capable of managing things, including [54:12] buying a house and renting out a piece of property. [54:16] And he's writing her saying, I don't think you should do that. [54:19] She's already done it. [54:20] Then he has to write and say, that was a really good idea. [54:24] So we see some things that maybe are more modern, in a sense, [54:30] in the 1860s, as people have to adjust to these different roles. [54:35] And that's another aspect of this heritage [54:37] that I think is fascinating. [54:41] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Now, the war starts in 1861. [54:44] You have multiple bloody years. [54:46] But there is a presidential election in 1864. [54:50] Michigan still goes for Lincoln and the continuation of the war, [54:55] though in slightly smaller numbers, it sounds like. [54:58] And then you have April 1865, Robert E. Lee surrenders, [55:02] the war seems to be coming to an end, [55:04] and Abraham Lincoln is shot. [55:07] What was the reaction in Michigan to the news of that? [55:10] JACK DEMPSEY: Horror, horrified, deep grief and lamentation. [55:17] And there were events coincident with the funeral train that [55:24] brought his remains back to Springfield, Illinois, [55:26] here in Michigan. [55:27] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Did that go through Michigan? [55:28] JACK DEMPSEY: It did not go through Michigan. [55:30] We were not on the main railroad route. [55:33] But coincident with that, there were events held in, I believe, [55:38] in Ann Arbor and Detroit and other places, [55:41] and the 24th Michigan Regiment of Infantry, [55:46] which had fought at Gettysburg and was decimated [55:50] because of that, they formed an honor guard for Lincoln at his [55:55] burial in Springfield. [55:56] So in a way, Michigan was part of this funeral effort. [56:02] I ought to mention, put in a plug for the fact [56:04] that just recently, a group of people in Kalamazoo [56:09] have formed an enterprise to commemorate [56:13] the memory of Lincoln in Michigan-- his one appearance [56:17] during the campaign of 1856, I believe, [56:21] the John C. Fremont candidacy for president as a Republican. [56:25] So there's a statue of Lincoln that's [56:27] been erected in Kalamazoo within the last decade. [56:31] Monuments are going down in some places in America, [56:35] and we won't necessarily say why or whether that's good or bad. [56:39] That could be a whole other hour and a half talk. [56:43] But here in Michigan, we've just recently raised [56:47] a monument to Lincoln in Kalamazoo [56:50] because that's where he spoke. [56:52] So we do have a Lincoln heritage here that's still being boosted, [56:59] I guess you would say. [57:00] So Lincoln's killed, and things changed dramatically [57:04] because his successor, Andrew Johnson, [57:06] is nothing like Lincoln. [57:08] He is not an abolitionist, and he's a racist, pure and simple. [57:14] So we get into a political problem [57:16] because we have a Congress that's Republican. [57:19] We have a president who doesn't agree with their viewpoint, who [57:23] wants the nation to be put back together quickly, even [57:26] if the South doesn't recognize the rights of the formerly [57:30] enslaved. [57:31] So we have a constitutional struggle in which Michigan [57:36] leaders in Congress play a big role in terms of propounding [57:41] the 13th Amendment against eliminating slavery, the 14th, [57:45] equal rights, and the 15th, voting rights for Black men. [57:49] So Michiganders in Congress play a key role [57:52] in doing that, including Austin Blair, who [57:54] becomes a Congressman. [57:55] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: He stepped down as governor, I assume. [57:57] JACK DEMPSEY: He stepped down as governor in January of '65, [58:02] would like to have become senator, [58:04] but he was not of that group of people who [58:09] supported the existing senator. [58:11] So he ran for Congress from Jackson and won and was part [58:14] of propounding the 15th Amendment. [58:17] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: What was the crisis you mentioned? [58:20] Was it just those amendments that Michiganders [58:23] were playing a key part of? [58:24] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, Johnson wanted [58:27] to restore the states of the Confederacy back [58:31] into full participation in political affairs. [58:36] Lincoln wanted to do that rapidly as well, as rapidly as [58:39] made sense. [58:40] But he still was not going to tolerate [58:44] the reinstitution of slavery. [58:46] He was an equal rights advocate, more than Johnson, for sure. [58:57] So Johnson attempts through executive action [59:00] and through vetoes of congressional bills to Institute [59:04] his program. [59:06] The Republicans, radical Republicans, [59:09] want to reconstruct the country in a different way. [59:12] And Michigan comes down on the side of the Congressional form [59:19] of reconstruction, not the Johnsonian form [59:22] of reconstruction. [59:24] So there's the first impeachment of a president in national [59:29] history in the 1860s. [59:31] And Austin Blair votes for impeachment. [59:36] So it's interesting to think about how [59:39] he had that decision to make. [59:41] And he believed that Johnson was on the wrong side of history. [59:47] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Probably a lot of people would agree with that. [59:56] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] [59:58] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: So leaving Washington [60:00] with its crises and important issues, [60:03] coming back to Michigan yet again, [60:06] what was the aftermath of the war, [60:09] when you have tens of thousands of soldiers [60:13] returning to the state? [60:15] You mentioned the roles of women during the conflict and then [60:21] quote/unquote, "going back to normal" afterwards. [60:24] Can you tell us a little more about that? [60:27] JACK DEMPSEY: Michigan does become a growing state, [60:29] as we said. [60:31] It rises in terms of the ranking among the states. [60:34] The veterans become a very powerful political force. [60:38] They want to see pensions for those who were wounded or maimed [60:47] or who served, because there's a sense [60:51] that their service impacted them, whether you could see it [60:55] or not. [61:13] And what we have here is, on the left, the Soldiers' [61:19] and Sailors' Monument in Detroit, [61:21] which is in Campus Martius. [61:30] It's been moved around a little bit, but it's still there. [61:33] And that's dedicated to the memory [61:35] of those who fought on land and sea [61:38] to preserve the Union, a magnificent monument, and still [61:42] a place where people gather to I think, remember what happened [61:47] and why we're still able to be the country we are. [61:52] And on the right-hand side is one of the Michigan monuments [61:58] that were erected after the war-- [62:00] and this is at Andersonville Prison site in Georgia-- [62:04] a beautiful, evocative monument representing Michigan lamenting [62:10] the loss of those who were in the stockade, [62:14] inside the stockade who died. [62:15] And there was many thousands who suffered and died there, [62:20] and some who were released and then [62:23] boarded a steamship on the Mississippi River, which blew up [62:28] when its boiler exploded because it was overloaded [62:31] and were drowned in the Mississippi River. [62:33] Some Michigan veterans died there. [62:37] So again, there's another monument to that sacrifice. [62:40] So veterans become a powerful force. [62:43] They are predominantly Republican, [62:46] and so they support that agenda. [62:48] And it's not until later in the 1800s that there's more [62:52] of an equilibrium between the two parties. [62:55] And Michigan grows in terms of its industrial [62:58] and manufacturing prowess. [63:02] And it's no secret that at the turn of the century, [63:06] we've got people like Henry Ford developing products that [63:10] put Michigan really on the map. [63:12] Detroit's a stove manufacturing hub. [63:15] It's a ferry. [63:15] It's a seed headquarters, ferry seeds, [63:22] but becomes an auto capital in the early 20th century. [63:26] But in that interim, it's growing [63:28] in power, might, economy, and strength politically. [63:33] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: We only have a few minutes before I want [63:35] to open it up to the audience. [63:36] But I do want to talk, not for an hour and a half [63:40] because unfortunately, I don't have it, but a little [63:42] about monuments and memorials. [63:44] We have the images, we've got all of these memorials. [63:51] Why were these being built in Michigan? [63:54] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, to commemorate, to honor, [64:00] to help people remember what happened. [64:05] You'll find in many small towns and villages a monument to Civil [64:10] War service. [64:12] There was a standard monument that [64:14] was sold that was affordable for many small communities. [64:18] So you'll find those in, say, Williamston, [64:23] or other cities and small towns like that. [64:25] Detroit has this magnificent monument. [64:30] It wasn't just veterans who supported that. [64:32] It was leadership. [64:33] And Austin Blair was a great advocate for veterans' rights [64:37] and memory. [64:39] He spoke at many dedications. [64:41] And he and they had a bond because he gave everything [64:45] just as they did. [64:46] So it's a patriotic thing to remember what your neighbor did [64:55] for you in a military uniform. [64:58] And unless you've been part of a military family, [65:02] maybe you don't quite have that familiarity, [65:04] but you can imagine it. [65:06] You can imagine what it's like for someone's husband to go off [65:10] or someone's wife to go off and serve, maybe lose a limb, [65:14] maybe come back with the emotional trauma from warfare. [65:21] And this warfare was traumatic. [65:23] I mean, these were weapons that killed and maimed, [65:27] that left men disfigured, soldiers disfigured. [65:32] And it was a time when medical knowledge was advanced [65:40] by surgeons, by doctors. [65:43] I think that helped carry forward [65:46] a better standard of care after the war, [65:48] in terms of, it's not just patent medicine that's [65:51] going to service the population, but scientific, [65:56] well-studied, well-learned, well-taught medical practice [66:00] here. [66:05] Ann Arbor is obviously a great model of that. [66:09] So you had medical doctors who were not just hack and whack [66:13] sawbones, but actually looked for the welfare [66:15] of their patients. [66:17] So these monuments, there are Civil War cannons in Michigan [66:22] that were actually on famous ships [66:25] that you walk through a little town square like Petoskey, [66:29] and here's a cannon and you think, well, I [66:31] wonder what that's from? [66:32] Well, it's from the vessel that passed the batteries [66:39] at New Orleans and Mobile. [66:41] "Damn the torpedoes!" [66:42] That's one of those cannons. [66:44] So these help us remember. [66:47] And unless we remember the past, the famous statement [66:52] is, we're doomed to repeat it. [66:53] But it's not just that negative sort of connotation. [66:59] This is really part of the fabric of our life, our society, [67:05] what people have done, how they've [67:07] fought for these great principles-- life, liberty, [67:11] and the pursuit of happiness. [67:12] And so if you take that for granted-- [67:15] and we have a lot to take for granted, because we have so much [67:18] to be grateful for. [67:20] And so I think every time you see one of these, [67:22] maybe you don't have to go up and worship at it [67:26] or even read the plaque, but it can cause you to think about, [67:31] hmm, today I'm able to do this because they did that. [67:35] So these are things not to be torn down here in Michigan. [67:38] We don't have any monuments to Confederates. [67:41] We don't have any monuments, that I'm aware of, [67:42] to the pro-slavery viewpoint. [67:47] There's this whole lost cause idea, [67:51] which I don't want to necessarily get [67:53] too much into the weeds, but because we fought for the Union, [67:57] we don't have to deal with that issue. [67:59] We don't have to worry about certain monuments. [68:02] Now, there is a monument to Custer in Monroe, [68:05] and there are people who say, well, look [68:08] what he did in the Indian Wars. [68:11] So maybe that monument should not exist. [68:13] But it doesn't commemorate his service in 1876. [68:19] It commemorates what he did as the leader of the Michigan [68:22] Cavalry Brigade. [68:23] And those veterans of that brigade [68:26] were instrumental in getting it funded [68:29] and erected to his memory, because he [68:33] was instrumental in winning this war to put the Union back [68:37] together and eliminate slavery. [68:40] So from that perspective, if you want [68:43] to put up another plaque that talks about his post-Civil War [68:47] service, that's good because that would educate people, [68:50] but to tear it down because of something that he did later [68:54] as an instrument of federal policy? [68:57] Well, let's tear down other monuments, [68:59] like to General Grant, President Grant, [69:03] because he was the president when the Battle of Little [69:05] Bighorn went down. [69:07] So let's tear his monuments down. [69:09] Pretty soon, what have we got left? [69:11] Just a bunch of feet, stumps, where the monuments were. [69:16] Because no one's perfect. [69:18] But let's educate. [69:19] Let's use them to teach and teach the whole story. [69:22] That's my humble opinion. [69:34] [LAUGHS] And you agree with it. [69:38] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I think I do. [69:39] I think I do. [69:41] JACK DEMPSEY: Again, that lawyer persuasion power. [69:43] Thank you. [69:44] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I mean, it's that Michigan State education. [69:46] JACK DEMPSEY: Right. [69:47] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: But I think on that note, [69:48] we'll open it up to questions from the audience. [69:51] Please raise your hand and give one of our docents [69:54] a chance to bring you a microphone. [69:55] So that way our online audience will [69:57] be able to hear what you say. [69:59] Thank you. [70:01] AUDIENCE: Jack, thanks very much. [70:04] Could you talk a little bit about military awards [70:09] in the Civil War? [70:11] I bring this up because you mentioned George Armstrong [70:15] Custer's younger brother, Tom. [70:19] And people perhaps aren't aware of medals that could be received [70:27] or that hadn't even existed during the Civil War [70:30] for military and naval service. [70:37] JACK DEMPSEY: There were several awards. [70:46] One was the Kearny Cross early in the war. [70:50] But this is the first war, really, where the Medal of Honor [70:54] is instituted. [70:55] That's different from the Congressional Medal of Honor, [70:59] but it is the same lineage for an extraordinary feat, something [71:06] done in a battle, in an armed conflict. [71:09] And George Armstrong's younger brother, Tom, [71:13] is awarded two, I believe, for the same-- [71:16] AUDIENCE: Three days apart. [71:18] JACK DEMPSEY: Three days apart. [71:21] So something ran in that Custer family in terms of cowardice [71:25] under fire-- or cowardice-- courage under fire. [71:27] [LAUGHTER] [71:29] Boy, that was a mental slip. [71:32] Courage under fire. [71:33] By the way, I love that movie, Courage Under Fire. [71:35] So it was awarded a lot for people, soldiers [71:40] who captured an enemy flag. [71:44] That was something that's tangible. [71:47] You can come back to your side, your unit [71:52] with a flag of the enemy. [71:55] And at the end of the war, Michigan troops [71:58] were capturing many Confederate flags. [72:00] And that was a great part of their heroism. [72:06] So the Medal of Honor was given to a number of soldiers all up [72:09] and down the line for some kind of heroic deed [72:13] and became really the foundation for the Congressional Medal [72:17] of Honor. [72:17] AUDIENCE: And there was no Purple Heart. [72:25] There was no Good Conduct Medal. [72:27] There was no Silver Star, Bronze star. [72:31] It was the Medal of Honor. [72:32] Or as you mentioned, there were individual unit medals [72:37] that a commander might construct himself [72:40] but were not given on behalf of the army or the navy. [72:43] JACK DEMPSEY: That's right. [72:45] And to some extent, this idea of giving someone [72:48] an honorary promotion, so-called brevet commission, [72:55] was a way of honoring their service. [72:59] So frequently, someone who was, say, a colonel was [73:02] made a brevet general for either consistently honorable service [73:10] during the war or because of something [73:11] that he did in a battle. [73:13] So in a way, that was also, I guess [73:15] you'd say, a commendation that forms the basis for today's [73:20] military honors. [73:21] Thanks. [73:22] Good question. [73:37] AUDIENCE: Were there any individuals specifically [73:39] from the University of Michigan that played significant roles [73:43] in the Civil War? [73:45] JACK DEMPSEY: There were. [73:46] And maybe this should be answered by Andrew, [73:49] but there's a great exhibit here that's just been opened-- [73:52] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That's great. [73:53] You're plugging the exhibit now, not just the books. [73:56] JACK DEMPSEY: --that tells the story of the university [73:59] and its response. [74:00] The president, President Tappen, was [74:02] very much in favor of fighting for the Union. [74:06] And he helped I think, motivate students [74:09] to go into military service. [74:12] So there's even an image here of three students who, [74:18] as soon as I think there's a threat of war, [74:23] are volunteering to serve in militia, [74:25] forming companies of militia here on campus or in Ann Arbor [74:30] to begin to prepare for war. [74:32] So students, they were ready, willing, and able [74:37] to fight for their country, the United States of America. [74:40] There were some significant people [74:42] affiliated like Pritchard, as I mentioned, [74:44] the Fourth Michigan, and also a guy [74:46] whose name is James Kidd, who was a student when [74:51] the war began, left the university, I think, in 1862, [74:56] and became a brevet brigadier general, fought with Custer [75:02] and idolized Custer. [75:04] He may be the number-one member of the Custer fan [75:08] club in the Civil War. [75:11] Because he watched Custer, he followed him. [75:15] He saw him in action. [75:16] He saw his courage. [75:17] He saw his bravery. [75:18] He saw his willingness to lead, not just order troops [75:21] into battle. [75:23] And Kidd wrote about this. [75:24] And so he's a great example, I think, [75:26] of someone who was there, who carried those memories with him, [75:32] who wrote about it, and University [75:35] of Michigan, a Wolverine. [75:37] So yes, there were a number of Michigan soldiers, [75:43] students who became prominent, and a number who died in action. [75:47] So that's all laid out here in this great exhibit, [75:50] which I was absolutely mesmerized by. [75:54] So I encourage you to look at those and other people [75:56] to come see it. [75:57] This is a magnificent place, this observatory. [76:00] So it's really something to be proud of whether you're [76:03] a Michigan grad or not. [76:05] [LAUGHS] [76:12] AUDIENCE: I was wondering if there [76:14] were any battles or skirmishes in Michigan [76:17] or on the border of Ohio? [76:21] JACK DEMPSEY: There were-- well, in the Civil War? [76:24] No. [76:25] No, we had the Toledo War, as you well know, [76:28] where there was all kinds of bloodletting. [76:31] [LAUGHTER] [76:32] I think somebody got cut by a knife. [76:34] I think that's what happened. [76:35] But no, there were no battles in Michigan [76:37] because we were so far from the front. [76:40] But there was a vessel on the Great Lakes in the Detroit [76:49] area that was captured by Confederate sympathizers [76:55] and was going to be taken down to the Cedar Point area, [77:00] not to ride rides, but to free prisoners who [77:04] were in a prison camp there. [77:06] And that was interrupted and it was unsuccessful. [77:09] But in a sense, that's really, the war came very close to here [77:13] in Southeast Michigan. [77:15] There were Confederate prisoners who were on Mackinac Island, [77:18] just a handful, but prisoners put there. [77:23] So the war came here in a way, but there were no actions, [77:26] no battles, no skirmishes. [77:29] Too far from the front, thankfully. [77:32] And there was some thought that maybe people would come over [77:35] from Windsor and do something, but that [77:37] never happened violently. [77:42] In the back. [77:48] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Mackinac Island is a long way from Mississippi. [77:50] JACK DEMPSEY: [LAUGHS] [77:51] AUDIENCE: Thank you so much for this talk. [77:53] It's just been really wonderful. [77:55] I've been so glad to learn about Austin Blair. [78:00] I recently moved to Depot Town in Ypsilanti, [78:03] and I was just really struck by the number of Civil War [78:08] monuments and just history in terms of the Norris Block, [78:12] where I understand that folks camped, including [78:16] the Black Michigan regiment that you mentioned, Elijah McCoy. [78:22] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [78:22] AUDIENCE: Harriet Tubman statue downtown. [78:27] And so I was just wondering-- and also [78:29] the Underground Railroad history there as well, too. [78:32] I live in a house that's from that era, [78:34] so I'm curious if you have any history about Ypsilanti [78:37] in particular or Depot Town in relation to the Civil War? [78:41] And then also, if there's not much to dig with that, [78:44] I was also just really curious about the role of Michigan's [78:46] waterways, the lakes in general as well, during the Civil War. [78:49] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes. [78:50] AUDIENCE: Thanks. [78:51] JACK DEMPSEY: So let me answer that second part first. [78:54] So the Lincoln funeral train did not [78:56] come through Michigan because we were on the Great Lakes. [79:00] We weren't down in Indiana, Ohio, Illinois. [79:05] But interesting that from say, Buffalo to Detroit [79:10] was an easier ride on Lake Erie and quicker [79:14] than using a railroad. [79:16] So many troops went to the front from Detroit to Buffalo [79:21] or vice versa when they came back. [79:22] So it's very interesting to think about that about that. [79:25] And of course, when iron and copper was extracted in the UP, [79:29] it made its way over water. [79:31] There weren't roads. [79:33] There was no Mackinac Bridge in 1860. [79:37] It came by waterway. [79:39] So that's part of the Great Lakes maritime heritage. [79:43] Ypsilanti, right across from Depot Town, [79:47] there's a building that was almost going to be torn down. [79:52] It's been rescued. [79:53] It's on the northeast corner, I believe it is. [79:56] And that's got a monument, a state historical marker, [79:59] to the 17th Michigan Regiment, which was nicknamed [80:04] the Stonewall Regiment. [80:06] Now, we've all heard of Stonewall Jackson. [80:09] In fact, I have a photograph of myself [80:12] when I was on that statue sitting at his feet [80:16] as a two-year-old. [80:18] I don't know how I climbed up there. [80:21] Actually, I don't know why my parents would risk my safety [80:24] by putting me up there. [80:26] [LAUGHTER] [80:27] But anyway, back to the point. [80:28] So the Stonewall Regiment got its nickname at a battle right [80:33] before Antietam, when they climbed up [80:36] a hillside, a mountainside, and attacked a Confederate force [80:41] that was on the other side of a stone wall, [80:44] so going uphill in the face of hostile fire [80:49] and captured that position-- [80:52] again, great heroism on September 14, 1862. [80:56] So without that action, perhaps we [81:00] would not have had Antietam the same way or Antietam at all. [81:03] So right across from Depot Town is where this regiment mustered, [81:08] organized, and is another example of how [81:12] right around the corner from many of us [81:15] is something that should electrify us. [81:18] Because we think about these people who, even though they [81:23] knew how awful this was going to be, [81:26] how dangerous-- they'd seen soldiers come back maimed, [81:31] they'd heard about they read about people dying, [81:33] yet they went off. [81:34] And those 1,000, 800 men of that regiment went into the teeth [81:39] of fire on September 14, '62, and got this immortal nickname. [81:44] And I like that one a lot better than the other guy who [81:48] fought for the wrong side. [81:53] GREGORY PARKER: We have a question [81:54] from the online audience, but I also [81:56] wanted to put in a plug for a November 22 event we're [82:00] doing here, in conjunction with the African-American Cultural [82:04] and Historical Museum of Washtenaw County, which [82:06] is a motor coach or bus and walking tour of back Washtenaw [82:12] County in the Civil War, which will go to various sites [82:15] in Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti. [82:18] And we'll explore that history. [82:19] So in again, reference to the last question, [82:23] I wanted to mention that. [82:24] I also wanted to ask an online question [82:25] from one of our online guests. [82:31] The questioner asked, what is the relationship [82:34] to Michigan and the US Colored Troops, [82:35] which we've kind of talked about a bit? [82:37] But also, did any of the US Colored Troops [82:40] regiments participate in the Battle of Gettysburg? [82:44] JACK DEMPSEY: The answer to that question is no, [82:46] because they weren't even organized and mustered [82:49] into service in July of 1863. [82:52] They were still being recruited. [82:54] And I have to say that at that point in the war, [82:58] there's still a question in the minds of some-- [83:01] are these men actually going to perform like white troops? [83:12] And so in some cases, they only do guard duty or they do "away [83:18] from the front lines" duty. [83:19] But the First Michigan Colored Regiment [83:22] is sent down to South Carolina, and they [83:26] do fight some battles, including the Battle of Honey Hill, which [83:31] is a site that has been off limits, private property, that [83:35] now is coming, I believe, into public access. [83:40] So if any of you drive down or fly down [83:43] or get in the neighborhood of Hilton Head, you can, I think, [83:47] go see this spot. [83:49] And it's a great story of them fighting, [83:53] again heroically, like the Stonewall Regiment troops, [83:56] hostile fire, in the open, exposed, demonstrating [84:01] their personal courage. [84:03] And just the fact, again, that these soldiers [84:06] went down to South Carolina and Georgia and Florida. [84:11] This unit, this regiment put their necks [84:14] on the line in an area that was extremely hostile, [84:19] just looking at their physical appearance, [84:24] and did not recognize them as soldiers, as regular soldiers. [84:31] The Confederate policy was-- we don't have to treat them as POWs [84:35] and treat them like we would other soldiers in blue uniforms. [84:39] So they did a lot. [84:40] They risked a lot. [84:41] And that extent of heroism is something [84:44] that really distinguishes them uniquely from other soldiers. [84:48] So no, not at Gettysburg, but other battles. [84:51] And you can again, it's exciting that these things [84:55] are being developed in the sense of access is being provided. [85:00] You can go see the ground, the holy ground, the sacred ground, [85:04] the hallowed ground where they fought for us. [85:06] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Is there a monument to the regiment [85:08] anywhere that you know of? [85:10] JACK DEMPSEY: Well, there's a state historical marker [85:13] on a school property in Detroit where they trained. [85:20] Unfortunately, that marker has been in bad condition. [85:23] I don't know its current condition. [85:26] But as part of the state, you can go look at all the state [85:30] historical markers online. [85:32] There's also a database of historical markers online [85:37] that you can go look up those kinds of markers. [85:39] So there are a few and it'd be great [85:41] if there were more to tell that story. [85:48] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: Any other questions? [85:50] We have time for maybe one more. [85:54] AUDIENCE: This isn't specifically about Michigan, [85:56] but you keep talking about the front. [86:06] I have difficulty conceiving of where the front was. [86:16] Because I grew up in Europe, as you could tell by my accent. [86:20] And when we had a front in the First World War, [86:23] it sat there for four years and moved [86:25] about 100 yards either way, but you could define it. [86:30] I've never seen a defined front for the Civil War. [86:34] It strikes me that the place was so huge, [86:36] you couldn't really have just one. [86:38] What defined the front? [86:40] JACK DEMPSEY: That's a really good question. [86:49] So let me try to answer it this way. [86:52] In the eastern theater, there was [86:55] a front between Washington, DC, and Richmond, Virginia. [87:01] And that front kind of moved up and back and forth from 1861 [87:08] into the spring of 1864. [87:10] So, in a way, three years, there was this moveable front. [87:15] When Grant, U.S. Grant came east after he [87:19] was very successful in the western theater, [87:22] he changed that dynamic. [87:23] The front moved around Richmond and Petersburg, [87:27] and Lee was trapped in those trenches. [87:31] And so there was kind of a World War I trench line on both sides. [87:37] And Grant kept extending that line to the southwest. [87:41] And Lee had to keep extending his. [87:42] And finally, there was a breakthrough [87:46] that both sides wanted in World War I. And the end of the war [87:51] came within a matter of days. [87:53] So there was some similarity, I guess. [87:56] Out west it was quite different-- [87:59] a vast territory and rivers that were alleyways, I guess, [88:07] for Union forces to move South. [88:10] But as they move South, their supply lines, of course [88:13] got longer and longer. [88:15] And ultimately the Union captured New Orleans [88:20] in 1862, Mobile in '64. [88:25] Kentucky stayed in the Union. [88:26] Tennessee became mostly Union occupied by '64. [88:32] And then when Sherman captured Atlanta and moved down [88:36] to Savannah, in a way, the front moved all the way [88:40] to the Atlantic Coast. [88:41] So that's a very good question. [88:43] And I think in the west it was very different. [88:45] You had this vast territory of land that, how do you occupy it [88:53] and how do you prevent Confederate interests [88:57] from resurrecting themselves? [88:59] Well, ultimately, through what happened in World War [89:03] I, at some point, on some basis-- morale, the morale [89:10] of people in the South. [89:12] And this has been admitted by people like Davis, flagged. [89:19] And so they did not support the war like they had in '61. [89:23] That's an interesting parallel, so I appreciate [89:25] you bringing that up. [89:28] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: OK, we have time [89:29] for maybe one more question. [89:37] AUDIENCE: Could you say a little more about the conditions [89:42] in Michigan that led to people supporting [89:45] expanding suffrage, tolerating a huge influx of out-of-staters, [89:54] and supporting putting their lives on the line for the cause [89:58] of keeping the Union together? [90:00] It seems like it's a fertile ground, [90:05] like there must have been something going on that [90:11] put people in this mindset. [90:14] JACK DEMPSEY: Yes, it's a complicated answer, I think. [90:19] So part of it is, Michigan qualifies to be a state in 1835. [90:26] Our first Constitution was approved in 1835. [90:30] But if you look at our state flag [90:32] and you look at when we were admitted, it was in 1837. [90:36] So what happened in those two years? [90:38] The Toledo War. [90:39] We wanted Toledo bad. [90:41] And so we were not going to accept statehood until Congress [90:45] drew the boundary, the Michigan boundary, south of Toledo. [90:50] So we'd have Toledo, Michigan, and the Toledo Mud Cats [90:53] would be another Michigan baseball team-- [90:56] Mud Hens. [90:59] But Ohio was already in the Congress. [91:03] It was able to say, we're going to keep our boundary north. [91:06] So we ended up taking the UP in return, which was [91:11] really a good deal, actually. [91:12] But I think there's that heritage of, boy, we [91:16] had to fight our way into the Union. [91:19] We weren't just granted admission. [91:21] And then that kind of is also based on the fact [91:25] that Michigan was painted as a bad place to live. [91:30] The southern tier of counties were swamp land. [91:36] So you really didn't want to go to Michigan. [91:39] But as people came here and they found that's not true [91:41] and then were denied admission initially, [91:44] I think we get a chip on our shoulder. [91:46] And so we have this sort of perverse pride [91:50] that, fine, it's us against everybody. [91:55] Oh, boy, I should have-- [91:56] [LAUGHTER] [91:59] I should have patented that idea. [92:02] So, and a lot of easterners come, [92:04] and they come with the ideas of the town hall [92:09] meeting, democracy. [92:12] They aren't able to buy property because 200 years of society [92:17] has already taken up all the land. [92:19] Well, here in Michigan, there's a lot of land. [92:21] It used to be occupied by the inhabitants who [92:25] have been here for many years. [92:27] By the way, I should mention that's another part [92:29] of the story. [92:31] We have non-citizen people, Native Americans, [92:37] who fought for the United States of America in the Civil War [92:41] from Michigan. [92:42] A very famous Company K of Native Americans, [92:47] not citizens, who fought for us, those who were citizens. [92:52] So it's another amazing story. [92:54] But I think that's part of the aspect, [92:55] is this sort of influx from New England, this chip [92:58] on our shoulder, this great natural resources, [93:01] farmland is rich. [93:03] The Land Grant Act forms new colleges. [93:09] The Homestead Act enables people to buy property cheaply. [93:13] And so this is a fertile place to begin a new life, [93:19] begin a new future. [93:20] And then you go out to a place like Covert, Michigan [93:23] on the west side of the state. [93:25] And you've got a community of whites and Blacks [93:28] who have lived together in harmony for 150 years, [93:33] and that's bred into their DNA. [93:36] And if that were only the case statewide, nationwide. [93:41] But that's a great story to think about. [93:44] So bad answer to a great question, [93:48] but maybe I've touched the hem of the garment there. [93:51] Thanks. [93:53] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: I think on that note, we're just about [93:55] out of time. [93:56] So let me say, thank you all for joining us this evening. [93:59] Thanks as well to Greg Parker, who's [94:01] hiding in the corner over there, the Director of the Detroit [94:03] observatory for monitoring our live stream, [94:06] and also the wonderful Michigan Media [94:08] Team who's recording and broadcasting this talk. [94:12] Tonight's session will be available online on YouTube [94:14] in about a week. [94:15] It will be shared through email with everybody who registered, [94:18] both virtually and in person. [94:23] And we will be back here at "Making Michigan" [94:25] on November 12, when Greg Dooley will be joining us to discuss [94:29] the history of a very different organization than the Union [94:31] Army-- [94:33] the National Collegiate Athletic Association-- [94:36] [LAUGHTER] [94:36] --better known as the NCAA, and the University of Michigan's [94:40] long and shall we say, tangled history with them. [94:43] But for those of you who are here [94:44] in the observatory this evening, the original observatory [94:47] upstairs and the exhibit, which we absolutely [94:50] did not ask him to plug, are both available [94:53] and will be open until about 8 o'clock this evening. [94:56] The exhibit is called "Fill the Ranks-- [94:57] the Civil War and the University of Michigan." [94:59] And I will also agree, it's really cool. [95:02] So if you have a chance, please visit it. [95:05] We have an incredible set of student docents [95:07] who can lead tours, who can answer all the questions I [95:10] would just be lying about. [95:12] It's really great. [95:13] And if you're not with us in person, [95:14] I hope you can join us in person sometime soon. [95:18] Otherwise, have a wonderful evening. [95:19] Thank you so much. [95:20] [APPLAUSE] [95:23] JACK DEMPSEY: Thanks, Andrew. [95:23] ANDREW RUTLEDGE: That was amazing. [95:25] You did a great job. [95:26] JACK DEMPSEY: Thank you.