Mel Robbins Rejects Motivation in Favor of Behavior-First Action

梅尔·罗宾斯摒弃动力说，倡导行为在先 持久的个人改变需要我们在思想和情绪跟上之前就付诸实际行动，因为人类的生理机制使得动力在最关键的时刻往往并不可靠。 Mel Robbins 与 Steven Bartlett 探讨了个体如何通过运用如“由他们去”（Let Them）理论等行为框架，打破自我设限的模式并掌控自己的生活。Mel 分享了自己应对成人 ADHD、童年创伤和更年期的切身经历，阐释了潜意识的自我对话以及神经系统的高度警觉如何让人们深陷恐惧之中。他们探讨了内在驱动力与外在压力的差异，强调有意义的改变依赖于立即采取行动而非等待动力的降临。最后，对话强调了调节神经系统、设立清晰界限，以及将内心的平静与真实的人际联结置于首位的重要性。 依靠动力是一个陷阱，因为动力是短暂的，且往往在最需要的时候消失；实现真正改变需要采取以行动为先的策略。 (0:00) 梅尔·罗宾斯（Mel Robbins）提出的“随他们去”（Let Them）理论指出，重新掌控自己生活最快的方法就是停止试图控制周围的人，并在面对他人情绪时划清界限。 (40:05) 无论处于何种年龄或人生阶段，每个人都可以随时调整方向；嫉妒、愤怒等负面情绪往往是指引做出转变的内在指南针。 (3:14) 与自身内在潜能契合的决定会在身体上带来“扩张感”，而违背直觉的决定则会引发耗竭或退缩感。 (6:44) 成年人的持续焦虑和过度警觉通常源自童年创伤形成的生存机制；真正的转变往往发生于维持现状的痛苦超过做出改变的恐惧之时。 (13:20)

Mel Robbins argues that personal transformation and emotional stability require abandoning passive motivation in favor of behavioral action, unhooking from the need to control others through the 'Let Them' mindset, and addressing underlying nervous system dysregulation. Releasing Control via the 'Let Them' Theory (40:05) Robbins outlines the 'Let Them' framework—a behavioral rule coined by her daughter Kendall during a chaotic junior prom—as a mechanism to stop micromanaging others. Controlling tendencies typically stem from personal anxiety and insecurity, which drain energy and damage relationships. Adopting 'Let Them' cuts the emotional cord of rigid expectations, allowing others to behave as they are without energetic interference, which forces individuals to take responsibility for their own reactions and choices. Robbins emphasizes that the theory is neither passive apathy nor a license to enable danger. Clear exceptions apply when safety is compromised, such as in cases of severe addiction, drunk driving, or discrimination. In these scenarios, boundaries and interventions must be established, but individuals must ultimately allow others the space to experience their own consequences and breakdowns. Disrupting the Biological Sensation-to-Action Autopilot (23:54) Robbins rejects reliance on motivation, characterizing it as unreliable when friction occurs. She explains that human behavior follows a rapid biological sequence: sensation, perception, feeling, thought, and action. For individuals dealing with chronic stress or trauma, bodily sensations trigger automatic negative feelings and thoughts that prompt avoidance, freezing, or procrastination. To break this cycle, Robbins advocates for a behavior-first model that reverses the chain. Mimicking the actions of a healthy, focused person before thoughts catch up bypasses subconscious resistance. Drawing on her own daily routine and struggles with menopause at age 55, she emphasizes that taking action despite physical and mental reluctance—such as getting out of bed or sticking to health protocols—is the foundational skill for lasting behavioral change. Trauma, Nervous System Regulation, and Driven Behavior (34:41) Steven Bartlett and Robbins analyze whether intense achievement is propelled by authentic intrinsic drive or 'dragged' by unresolved shame and external conditioning. Bartlett notes that achieving his early material goals—such as a million pounds and a Range Rover—triggered an existential crisis after failing to provide internal satisfaction. Robbins reflects that her own constant productivity was rooted in survival: a fourth-grade childhood violation and an unpredictable caregiver left her nervous system locked in chronic hypervigilance, making stillness feel inherently unsafe. Overcoming this survival state required actively smoothing her nervous system through multiple therapeutic modalities, including talk therapy, behavioral activation, EMDR, and guided MDMA therapy with her husband. Robbins highlights that true personal agency begins only when individuals calm their hyperactive nervous system and decouple self-worth from frantic overachievement. Misdiagnosed ADHD and the Gender Research Gap (67:12) Robbins recounts receiving an ADHD diagnosis at age 47 after her son Oakley underwent neuropsychological evaluation for dyslexia and dysgraphia. Her family pediatrician noted that she displayed identical executive dysfunction, which had previously been treated for decades as generalized anxiety. Robbins attributes this widespread misdiagnosis to a historical research bias: initial ADHD studies in the 1960s and 1970s focused on young boys exhibiting overt hyperactivity, leaving a 'lost generation' of women whose symptoms—such as daydreaming and internal disorganization—emerged around puberty and were internalized as chronic anxiety. Robbins describes the prefrontal cortex in an ADHD brain as an orchestra conductor failing to dampen background noise, leaving the individual overwhelmed by ambient sensory inputs. Bartlett connects this phenomenon to Dr. Gabor Maté’s framework, suggesting that hyper-attunement often develops in childhood as an adaptive survival mechanism to monitor instability in chaotic household environments. Robbins concludes that long-term fulfillment requires rewiring the nervous system away from automatic trauma responses toward presence and connection. A persistent systemic challenge raised is the historical exclusion of women from medical research, which leaves mid-life women navigating complex issues like menopause and neurodivergence with insufficient clinical guidance.

Mel Robbins与Steven Bartlett在对话中指出，持久的人生转变不能寄托于不可靠的情绪动机，而取决于以行动优先重塑神经反应链条、以“由他们去”（Let Them）理论抽离对他人的控制执念，并主动调节受创伤与注意力缺陷影响的神经系统。 行为倒置与动机祛魅：逆转行动链条 (23:54) Robbins直言“动机就是垃圾”，因为人类大脑天然倾向于重复既有模式，在最需要做出改变的关头，动机往往瞬间消失。她将生物反应链条拆解为即刻发生的顺序：身体感觉（Sensation）先产生知觉（Perception），继而催生情绪感受（Feeling/Emotion）和想法（Thought），最后才落实为行动（Action）。长久以来，人们因晨起等生理阻力而产生消极念头，从而放任行为退缩。Bartlett亦指出，绝大多数人在逻辑上明确知道应当健康作息，却屡屡败在依凭即刻的身体感觉来做决策。 为打破这一回避恶性循环，Robbins主张采取“行为优先”的倒置策略，在负面情绪与拖延念头滋生之前，直接模拟目标状态下的具体行为。以其55岁应对绝经期的生理失控感为例，她通过强制执行两到三项生活习惯来维持秩序，而不等待心态就绪。她强调，改变并不是要消灭对洗碗、早起或锻炼的抗拒心理，而是学会在抗拒感存在的同时，依然执行符合长期自我认同的行为选择。 “由他们去”理论：放下控制与重建边界 (40:05) Robbins提出的“由他们去”（Let Them）理论，主张夺回自我生活控制权的最快途径是停止试图控制周遭的人。试图微观管理他人的行为，通常根源于个体自身的焦虑、不安全感以及对外部失控的恐慌。该法则源自她儿子高中舞会遇上冰雹时的经历，当面对没有雨伞与订餐的混乱局面时，女儿一句“由他们去”让她瞬间卸下了插手干预的冲动。Bartlett评价这一机制从根本上降低了僵化的预期，切断了不必要的内耗与失望。 Robbins进一步厘清，“由他们去”绝非被动冷漠或虚伪的不在乎，而是一种主动的能量解绑：它承认外界事件确实令人困扰，但允许他人呈现其真实状态，从而将关注点彻底拉回自身，追问自己应承担何种应对责任。该法则同时存在严格的现实边界——当涉及酒驾、自毁成瘾或歧视等严重危机时必须果断介入；但在设定健康边界后，仍须让对方承担属于自己的后果，允许他人经历必要的挫折也是一种成熟的放手。 神经系统过度警觉与女性成人ADHD (67:12) Robbins回顾了许多高成就者表面极具“驱动力”（Driven）实则被内在创伤“拖拽”（Dragged）的心理机制。由于四年级遭遇的突发创伤与童年不稳定的养育环境，她的中枢神经系统长期被困在高度警觉状态，使得“不停奔波”沦为避免遭受伤害的生存策略。Bartlett援引Gabor Maté博士的观点说明，成长于动荡家庭的儿童常以内在抽离或过度警觉作为保护机制，导致注意力系统在成年后依然难以恢复平静基准。 此外，Robbins在47岁时因儿子就医而确诊成人ADHD。她指出，20世纪六七十年代的医学研究样本几乎完全基于男童（约7岁常表现为外显多动），致使在青春期（约12岁）以走神、内在混乱与内化焦虑为主要表现的女孩群体被长期漏诊，形成了“失落的一代”女性。前额叶皮层如同乐队指挥，ADHD大脑无法压低背景噪音与躯体杂音，导致注意力难以锚定。Robbins通过谈话治疗、伴侣辅助的MDMA疗法、眼动脱敏再加工（EMDR）和行为激活疗法，才逐步完成对神经系统的解绑与重塑。 内在罗盘与嫉妒导向的人生基准审计 (57:34) Robbins将人生形容为一场公路旅行，认为年龄绝不是转向的阻碍，并举出自己在54岁才创立播客业务的实例。在辨识抉择方向时，她提出关注身体的即时能量反馈：契合内在潜能的选择会带来开阔、充满可能性的“舒展感”（Expansive），而偏离轨道的选择则会引发收紧与被掏空的“萎缩感”（Shrinking）。针对负面情绪，她提出“嫉妒本质上是受阻的渴望”，嫉妒对象往往比崇高愿景更迅速地揭示个体潜意识中真实想要却认定自己无法企及的生活品质。 在目标落地层面，Robbins批评盲目确立终点往往导致失败，因为导航的前提是掌握现实起点。她提倡利用周一或新年等“时间地标”进行纸笔审计：在关系、健康、财务等维度按1至10分打分并写下依据，目标仅设定为将各维度务实提升2至3分。Bartlett对此回应称，自己在达成百万英镑、豪车等外部地位标签后曾陷入存在主义危机，这也佐证了将目标重心从外部认可转向内在充实、家庭联结与生活当下的必要性。 本期对话表明，个人转变的核心不在于等待外在激励，而在于识别生理信号、划清人际控制界限并落实具体的行为执行。然而，对于由早年创伤深塑的神经反应机制，个体究竟需要多少多模态专业心理治疗才能有效重建基准线，依然存在门槛与不确定性；同时，针对绝经期激素波动等长期被医学研究边缘化的女性生理健康问题，社会与科研界如何提供系统性、个体化的支持方案，仍是有待解答的现实挑战。

## Background 该视频由 YouTube 频道 The Diary Of A CEO（主持人为 Steven Bartlett）于 2023 年 12 月 4 日发布。节目简介推荐了主持人与畅销书作家、动力专家 Mel Robbins 的首次对话，并附上了本期探讨如何随时开启人生新方向、克服焦虑以及破除动力迷思等话题的时间轴和播客收听链接。 ## TL;DR 本期访谈围绕 Mel Robbins 的核心认知工具展开，重点阐述了颠覆性的“由他们去”法则（Let Them Theory）——即通过停止控制他人和放弃情绪过度卷入，来重新夺回个人生活的掌控权与内心平静。Mel 深入剖析了“动力是垃圾”的生物学链条，主张以“行动优先”逆转由恐惧、创伤和身体抗拒主导的下行循环，并强调嫉妒与愤怒其实是指引人生转向的罗盘。对话还坦诚触及了她在 47 岁确诊成人女性 ADHD 的心路历程、童年创伤对神经系统的长期影响，以及 50 多岁面对围绝经期身心失控时的真实挣扎。最终，两人探讨了超越世俗目标后的生命追求：重塑受创的神经系统，享受当下，并让那些深陷停滞与隐形痛苦中的人们被真正看见。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话极具张力与感染力，兼具直截了当的顿悟感与毫不掩饰的脆弱与真实。Mel Robbins 展现出极具说服力的接地气风格，毫无说教感，而是像一位历经沧桑却充满生命力的挚友，以幽默自嘲的方式倾倒出自己面对更年期燥热、早晨赖床和中年危机的狼狈与挣扎；Steven Bartlett 的提问则敏锐且充满同理心，适时将话题推向更深层的心理内核。现场的情感弧线从早期破除思维陷阱的清脆果决，逐渐过渡到剖析创伤和家庭关系时的眼泛泪光，整体氛围温暖、治愈且充满力量，给身处迷茫中的听众带来一种被深深理解并被赋予行动勇气的解脱感。 ## Bulletin - [40:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2401s) 梅尔·罗宾斯提出“随他们去”（Let Them Theory）法则，指出掌控自身生活最快的方式就是停止控制他人，通过切断期望与情绪投射，将精力重新聚焦于自身责任。 - [25:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1541s) 动力是不可靠的虚幻产物，打破停滞必须采取“行动优先”策略，绕过身体本能的感觉与情绪链条，直接以微小具体行动倒逼自我认知重塑。 - [01:07:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4037s) 梅尔在47岁时因儿子就诊意外确诊成人ADHD，揭示出由于早期医学只聚焦男孩外化多动，导致整整一代内化型女性ADHD患者被误诊为长期慢性焦虑症。 - [06:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=360s) 嫉妒的心理本质是被阻断的渴望（blocked desire），它与极度挫败感和愤怒一样，是内心导航系统中最具指引价值的转向指针，能帮人厘清真正的核心需求与目标。 ## Key takeaways - [03:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=211s) 人生是一场随时可以靠边停车并调头的公路旅行，任何年龄都有权启动全新的人生方向。 - [06:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=360s) 嫉妒、挫败感和愤怒是强烈的航向修正信号，提醒你当前轨迹出现偏差，必须立即调整节奏或转向。 - [11:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=660s) 通过倾听身体的“扩张感”或“萎缩感”，能够绕过表层恐惧，准确识别某个选择是否符合深层内在智慧。 - [13:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=793s) 真正的改变需要“巨大的痛苦”或“一丝希望（万一呢）”作为引擎，它是一场需要一寸一寸推进的孤独马拉松。 - [19:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1152s) 深陷泥潭的人往往被无意识的童年创伤与内心苛责者所绑架，误将负面的自我叙事当成无法打破的客观现实。 - [22:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1349s) 改变必须始于“行动优先”，不能等待感觉就绪，通过日复一日强制执行正确行为反向重构自我身份认同。 - [25:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1541s) 人类默认的“感觉-感知-情绪-思维-行为”链条极易被创伤劫持，破局关键在于绕开情绪、以行动直接截断下行回路。 - [33:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1999s) 即便极其讨厌要做的事，你依然拥有付诸行动的能力，真正的自律是在抗拒情绪中主动选择与内在价值对齐。 - [34:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2081s) 极度的进取心背后常常是被耻辱感、不安全感与过度警觉所“拖拽”的创伤代偿，而非纯粹的内在驱动。 - [40:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2401s) “随他们去”（Let Them Theory）通过解除挂在他者身上的能量钩子，帮助个体从无谓的焦虑与控制欲中彻底解脱。 - [49:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2960s) 允许他人产生自己的情绪反应并不等于放任冷漠，而是尊重其作为独立个体的成长权利，并对自己的生命负起全责。 - [57:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3459s) 制定有效目标必须先客观评估当前各维度所处的坐标，利用增量微步演进，并通过解读嫉妒心确立远期梦想灯塔。 - [01:11:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4292s) 未确诊的女性ADHD常表现为注意力涣散与生活混乱，极易在青春期后演变为被过度开药但未触及根源的慢性焦虑症。 - [01:18:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4693s) 童年混乱高压环境迫使孩子进入过度警觉状态，这种早期的生存保护机制容易烧毁大脑执行功能的神经控制中枢。 - [01:20:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4811s) 现代女性面临围绝经期雌激素断崖式下跌与长寿周期的脱节，而医学系统长期缺乏系统、个体化的应对方案。 - [01:28:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5324s) 人生登顶后最深层的满足感来自全心体验当下的平和，以及与成年子女维系发自内心、主动选择的亲密羁绊。 - [01:30:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5435s) 长期重塑被创伤与焦虑绑架的神经系统，是人生最艰巨但也最具力量的蜕变。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=0s) 破局的秘密：走出停滞、打破思维陷阱与“随他们去”法则 最令人心碎的莫过于看到人们深陷生活的泥潭无法自拔。Mel Robbins 指出，想要让生活变得更好，其实有一套明确可行的方法。作为备受信任的自信与动力专家，她以直率、接地气的风格闻名全球。她首先击破了一个核心迷思：“不要依赖动力，动力纯粹是垃圾（motivation is garbage）”，因为在你真正需要它的时候，它永远不会出现。改变之所以极度困难，是因为人类的大脑天生就被设定为去识别相似的模式并不断重复；更糟糕的是，脑海中总有一个苛刻的声音在不断贬低自己：“你太差劲了”、“你把事情搞砸了”、“你这辈子注定一事无成”。这种根深蒂固的自我认知直接决定了行为，形成恶性循环。 幸运的是，有两条绕过这种限制的途径。其中最关键、最具颠覆性的法则就是“随他们去”（Let Them Theory）。这一法则基于一个朴素的真理：掌控自己生活最快的方式，就是停止控制身边的每一个人。强加给别人的意见和控制欲，本质上源于你自身的脆弱、不安全感与焦虑，而且这正在毁掉你的人际关系。当你学会退一步说出“随他们去”时，惊人的转变便会发生，它能从根本上重塑一个人的生活轨迹。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 突破停滞状态的认知路径 accDescr: 展示从自我批判的恶性循环转向通过随他们去理论掌控生活的思维路径 subgraph Trap["困境与陷阱"] A["内部苛责声音<br/>'你太差劲了/一事无成'"] --> B["负面自我认知"] B --> C["被动重复旧习惯与行为"] C --> D["深陷停滞状态"] end subgraph Solution["破局之道"] E["放弃依赖虚幻动力"] --> F["践行'随他们去'法则 (Let Them)"] F --> G["停止控制他人与外部环境"] G --> H["消除不安全感与焦虑消耗"] H --> I["重新夺回个人生活掌控权"] end D -.->|打破恶性循环| E ``` ### [01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=90s) 闭合潜力鸿沟与主持人的订阅之约 时值岁末年初，所有人都在盘算着新年改变，但当外部客观环境一成不变时，要脱胎换骨成为全新的人极其艰难。主持人 Steven Bartlett 阐述了本期节目的核心主旨：与 Mel 展开一场深度探索，帮助听众通过科学依据、经过实证的策略以及认知视角的转换，在来年缩小现实与潜在自我之间的鸿沟。这里的“潜力”指的绝非单纯的世俗成功，而是关乎每个人最为在意的幸福感与身心健康。Steven 坦言，“随他们去”这一理论看似平平无奇，却实实在在地彻底改变了他的生活——无论是在人际交往、职场沟通、伴侣相处中，还是在日常驾车被人加塞插队的瞬间。 在谈话正式切入前，Steven 诚恳地与受众定下一个约定：后台数据显示，大约有 58% 的忠实观众至今仍未点击订阅。他承诺，只要大家动动手指点击订阅，团队将全力以赴持续提升节目品质，计划将其打造成纪录片级别的深度访谈，融入更多真实走访的影像素材，为讨论的内容赋予更广阔的语境和更深刻的意涵。 - 频道忠实观众中约有 58% 尚未点击订阅按钮。 - 节目规划引入纪录片式呈现手法，用影像素材丰富论题背景。 - 本次讨论聚焦科学策略与思维重塑，目标是实现身心健康与幸福层面的潜能闭环。 ### [03:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=211s) 人生是一场公路旅行：任何年龄都可以调头 Steven 抛出了现实中极具代表性的困境样本：一位 45 岁开出租车的父亲，56 岁萌生了创办手袋品牌想法却被社会观念规训“年纪太大无法转型”的 Judith，以及那位 27 岁遵从移民母亲期望考取牙医学位、却从未倾听过内心呼唤的医学毕业生。对于这些已经在既定轨道上走了太远的人来说，究竟该如何回头或前行？ Mel 直截了当地回应：“你根本不需要回头（You don't turn back）。”她以自身经历作为最有力的佐证：她现年 55 岁，而真正涉足播客行业并打造自己的事业版图是在 54 岁那年。她的存在本身就是证据，证明一个人无论处于什么年纪，都有权决定调头并驶向全新的方向。Mel 分享了一个深刻影响她的人格隐喻——把人生想象成一场漫长的公路旅行： - 每一个岁数都只是旅程中的一块里程碑（mile marker）。 - 所有人的人生起点都是 0，也终将在某处迎来终点。 - 身为驾驶座上的唯一司机，你的核心任务是把握接下来的航向。 如果在旅途中感到迷失、打转或者撞上了死胡同，最愚蠢的做法就是继续在原地绕圈。正确的做法是立刻靠边停车（pull over, stop the damn car），承认自己当前的处境，重新校准内心自带的导航系统，然后从容转向。 ### [06:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=360s) 倾听负面信号：嫉妒与愤怒是最好的转向指针 谈及如何感知前行的方向，Steven 展现出的是天生的商业直觉与好奇心，只要本能驱使便会果断迈进。但现实中绝大多数普通人根本感受不到“直觉在召唤自己前往某处”。对此，Mel 给出了一个极具颠覆性的底层秘诀：“去关注你生活中那些糟糕透顶的事情（Pay attention to what sucks in your life）。” 导航信号分为积极与消极两种。积极的激情固然美好，但 Mel 坦言自己与那些“负面感受”有着更深层次的链接。嫉妒、挫败感、出离的愤怒——每当这些激烈的情绪在肉体中翻涌升腾时，绝非单纯的负能量，而是来自生命底层最强烈的航向指引。它们在严厉地警告你：当下的方向彻底错了，立刻停止以当前的速度盲目奔跑，你必须马上做出改变、转向新途。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 内在导航系统的双轨信号机制 accDescr: 对比积极信号与消极信号如何共同引导人生做出转向决定 subgraph Positive["正向导航信号"] P1["天然好奇心"] P2["本能直觉驱动"] P3["指向向往的目标"] end subgraph Negative["负向导航信号"] N1["嫉妒心理"] N2["极度挫败感"] N3["身体本能的愤怒"] end P1 & P2 & P3 --> Action["指引前进方向"] N1 & N2 & N3 --> Alert["拉响警报：必须调头 (Pivot)"] Alert --> Action ``` ### [07:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=420s) 并非指南针失灵，而是缺乏践行的勇气 针对 Mel 的“停车论”，Steven 提出了普通人最真实的心理顾虑：绝大多数人背负着房贷、账单与家庭重任，根本没有奢侈的停顿时间；更有甚者，身体的每一个细胞都清楚当下的工作、伴侣或社交圈完全是错的，却依然无法迈进未知的领域。Steven 认为这并非大家感知不到信号，而是无法根据信号付诸行动。 Mel 对此深表赞同，并深入剖析了内在智慧的运作机制。她认为每个人从降生的那一刻起，体内就预装了一套由经验与 DNA 共同编织的“内在罗盘（inner compass）”。作为充满能量的生命体，我们能敏锐感知环境的气场——比如走进一家商店瞬间感到的异样不适，就是罗盘在发出警示。 人们常抱怨自己“在感情中总是不走运”、“再也无法相信自己的直觉”，Mel 总会毫不留情地打断他们。直觉从来没有欺骗过你：如果翻看过去五六段失败感情的照片记录，凝视当时的表情，诚实自省，几乎每个人都会承认——早在一场离婚前 7 年、正式分手前 1 年，甚至在第一次与对方亲密接触之前，内心深处早就察觉到异样。即便那时被荷尔蒙与多巴胺的狂热所掩盖，静下心来时真相早已昭然若揭。 问题的核心从来不是内在直觉的精准度，而在于你是否拥有追随它的“勇气”。倾听内在呼唤并做出真正符合天命的决定，必然要求你打破现状、尝试未知；而直面全新事物的一刹那，大脑必然会诱发剧烈的恐惧防御机制。绝大多数人，正是把改变所需的脆弱与冒险，误读成了不可逾越的阻碍。 ### [11:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=660s) 扩张感与萎缩感：直觉与决定的身体信号 Mel Robbins 指出，人们常常将面对改变时产生的自然生理警觉反应误以为是“直觉在警告我选错了”。其实区分真实直觉与虚假恐惧的方法，在于觉察做决定那一刻身体传来的真实感觉。如果一个决定是正确的、与你的灵魂、DNA 及内在深层智慧完全契合的，即便那件事令人感到恐惧或紧张，你依然会在身体内部感受到一种“扩张感（expansion）”——仿佛有什么东西正在茁壮成长，充满了未来可能性的辽阔感；相反，如果这个决定从根本上是错的，一旦你安静下来、沉入内心，便会感受到一种明显的“萎缩感（shrinking）”、窒息约束感以及能量的流失。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 身体内在感觉与决策评估机制 accDescr: 展示当面临艰难抉择时，如何通过安静自省辨别身体是处于扩张还是萎缩状态以做出正确抉择。 A["面临选择或改变"] --> B["觉察身体内在反应"] B --> C{"安静自省 (Drop in)"} C -->|"感受：能量扩张、充满可能性"| D["契合内在智慧的正确选择<br/>(即便伴随紧张或未知)"] C -->|"感受：身心萎缩、逼仄与能量流失"| E["背离初心的错误选择<br/>(消耗与内耗的信号)"] ``` 在日常生活中，人们很容易在做出关键决定前被紧张情绪所蒙蔽。例如，当你下定决心要整顿个人财务，不再在周末去酒吧烂醉，而是承诺每周末花两小时收听播客学习技能、把自己的目标摆在首位。然而周五晚上朋友打电话喊你去酒吧喝酒时，拒绝的冲动会带来巨大的阻力和恐惧，因为你从未拒绝过他们，而且知道拒绝会招致调侃和非议。Mel 强调，此时只要深吸一口气彻底静下心来问自己：“今晚去酒吧，是让我感到向外扩张，还是让我感到在向内萎缩？”身体会立刻给出答案。这种直觉判断法虽然无法回答“何时做”或“怎么做”，但它能毫不含糊地指出“该做什么”。 --- ### [13:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=793s) 改变的双重引擎：触底的痛苦与一线希望 Steven Bartlett 引用了一句影响他近十年的名言：“只有当维持现状的痛苦大于做出改变的痛苦时，改变才会真正发生（Change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making a change）。”他观察到，很多人在要不要去健身房、是否打破恶性循环中反复纠结，仿佛必须经历更深层次的痛苦才肯行动。Mel 赞同并指出这是一项残酷的基本事实：你永远无法改变别人，人只有在自己准备好时才会改变。无论是跌入谷底，还是面对自我毁灭的代价飙升到无法承受，这种极端痛苦往往是有些人唯一能看清现状的时刻。 改变从来都不是一件容易的事。Mel 坦言，大脑生来就善于识别旧模式并重复它们，如果改变心态和习惯易如反掌，每个人早就拥有六块腹肌、名下有四家公司、拥有热门播客并实现一切梦想了。当你对自己深恶痛绝、厌倦了种种借口时，必须明白这是人类共有的挣扎。打破僵局的通常只有两样东西：足够巨大的痛苦，或者在某处听到另一个人的真实故事从而被重新点燃的那束光——“希望（hope）”。当人陷入恶性循环时，最匮乏的正是希望。只要有一丝光亮透过门缝照进来，引发内心的“万一呢？（what if）”——“万一这次我真的戒酒成功呢？”“万一接受心理咨询真能改变我呢？”“万一我能从自恋型人格的虐待创伤中复原呢？”“万一我能像那个人一样还清债务呢？”这种对可能性的惊鸿一瞥，正是推动改变的真正火种。 - **不能替代他人成长**：你对他人戒瘾、疗愈或财务自由的渴望，绝不能超过他们自身的渴望。 - **谷底的双重收益**：身处谷底时，继续堕落的成本与向上攀登的回报同时达到了最大值。 - **希望与“万一”效应**：绝望让人寸步难行，而一句“万一真的能成”的闪念，足以撕开生活停滞的裂口。 --- ### [17:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1036s) 谁能真正走出困境：行动的代价与孤独的马拉松 对于如何判断一个人是否真的会去改变，Mel 直言“语言是廉价的（talk is cheap）”。很多人会发来感谢信，宣称自己下定决心要创业、彻底蜕变，但往往停留在口头表达上。真正会付诸行动的人，在获得建议和希望后，会以极快的速度离开对话去投入实干。因为他们明白，改变绝不是灵光一闪的顿悟，也不是一夜之间的奇迹，而是一场极其乏味、痛苦、孤独的马拉松。 真正的蜕变就像在泥泞的球场上一寸一寸地向前推进推进球（moving the ball down the field inch by inch）。在这个过程中毫无光鲜可言，甚至充满阵痛：当你开始改变时，你周围的一切都在改变，身边原有的社交圈和人际关系也会随之动摇甚至剥离，起步阶段毫无乐趣可言。一个人要熬过这个阶段，要么具备极度超常的希望与甚至带点狂妄的灵感，要么就是被逼入绝境，体会到了“去他妈的，反正现状已经烂透了，不如豁出去试试（fuck it, let's try something else）”的临界点。 --- ### [19:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1152s) 困于创伤叙事：无意识的内心批判声音 被问及工作中有什么最让她心碎时，Mel 动情地表示，最让她难过的莫过于看到那么多人深陷困境、停滞不前，却不知道自己完全有能力改变现状。太多人到了40岁、50岁甚至60岁，整个人生依然被童年时期的创伤所牢牢定义。虽然童年创伤的影响深远且真实存在（Mel 自己也是到了中年才开始正视并处理自身经历的童年创伤），但真正令人痛心的是，许多人根本意识不到自己正深陷在受虐或扭曲的思维模式之中，无法自拔。 Steven 探讨道，这种困境本质上是人给自己编写的“身份叙事（identity）”——将过去发生的事件解释为自我认定手册，随后按此剧本指导所有行为。Mel 对此表示认同，并提及斯坦福大学相关专家关于潜意识与内在声音的研究（如探讨内心批判者 Inner Critic 的学者）：人们的头脑中时刻盘旋着连自己都未察觉的消极叙事。如果把这个声音外化，就如同整天有一个人跟在身后不断对你说：“你真差劲、你搞砸了、你一事无成、你注定孤身一人。”人们在无意识中把这种毁灭性的自我批判当成了现实，从而彻底困在认命（resignation）的泥潭里，失去了体验生命原本应有的喜悦与当下的能力。 ### [22:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1349s) 改变的起点：从“想要”与“行动优先”开始 梅尔·罗宾斯（Mel Robbins）探讨了自我认知与行为之间的驱动机制——究竟是思想决定行为，还是神经系统和潜意识在先驱动？她明确指出，改变必须始于一个决定：你不再想维持现状，不想再忍受低落的情绪、自我怀疑和停滞不前的生活。即便过去的创伤、遗憾让你觉得自己“配不上”美好的生活，你依然可以先产生“想要”的愿望：“去他的，在剩下的岁月里，我真的想开始享受生活、善待自己、感到快乐。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 行为优先改变模型 accDescr: 展示从下定决心到以行动重塑自我认知的转化路径 subgraph DecisionStage ["第一阶段：心理破局"] A["做出决定：不再接受现状"] --> B["树立渴望：想要变得更好<br/>(无需预先相信自己配得上)"] end subgraph ActionStage ["第二阶段：行动落地"] B --> C["设定2-3项具体行动"] C --> D["不顾负面感受与消极自白<br/>每日强制执行行动"] end subgraph IdentityStage ["第三阶段：身份重塑"] D --> E["亲眼见证自己的积极行为"] E --> F["从根本上重塑自我认知与身份"] end ``` 在做出决定之后，最核心的策略是“行动优先”（Action-first approach），即直接开始模仿那些已经拥有你所期望状态的人的行为，即便你此刻“根本不想做”。梅尔以自己55岁正经历更年期的困境为例：身体激素失衡、不可控的感觉如同当年怀孕，面对海量的女性健康与肠道调节资讯，感到沮丧与迷茫。她应对的方法是：先做决定要好起来，研究专家建议后挑出两三件具体可执行的事情，每天早起硬着头皮去做。当她亲眼看到自己做出锻炼、戒酒或写作的行动时，她对自己的认知才会发生质的改变。 - **更年期身体困境**：55岁经历更年期，身体激素发生剧烈变化，失控感堪比怀三个孩子时的孕期体验。 - **行动优先机制**：通过外部行为的改变反向塑造自我评价；看到自己持续做某类人的事，大脑才会认可自己就是那类人。 --- ### [25:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1541s) “动力就是垃圾”：身体的生物链反应 针对大众普遍认为自律者是靠“动机强烈”的误解，梅尔断言“动力就是垃圾”（Motivation is garbage）。曾经长期作为演说家的她直言，人在最需要动力的时候往往最缺乏动力。她从不指望自己能“感到有动力”或“想去做某事”，这并不代表她拥有钢铁般的意志力，而是因为她深刻理解人类运作的生物学链条。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 人类生物学反应链条 accDescr: 展示从身体感觉出发，经由知觉、情绪、思维，最终导致行动的默认链条 A["1. 身体感觉<br/>(Sensation)"] --> B["2. 感知环境<br/>(Perception)"] B --> C["3. 情绪产生<br/>(Feeling / Emotion)"] C --> D["4. 认知念头<br/>(Thinking)"] D --> E["5. 最终行为/逃避<br/>(Action)"] ``` 以早晨起床关闹钟为例，前一晚定闹钟是对未来自我的承诺，但次日闹钟响起的瞬间，纳秒级内会爆发一系列连锁反应： 1. **感觉（Sensation）**：皮质醇波动、更年期不适、贪恋被窝的温暖或佛蒙特州寒冷的体感； 2. **知觉（Perception）**：睁眼看到四周漆黑，丈夫克里斯（Chris）还在身旁熟睡； 3. **情绪（Feeling/Emotion）**：产生被压垮、沮丧等负面情绪； 4. **思维（Thinking）**：脑中冒出念头——“我不想起床”； 5. **行为（Action）**：选择赖床或拖延。 在过去，这套由感觉、感知、情绪到思维的链条牢牢主宰了她的行动。特别是有童年创伤或焦虑症的人群，身体一旦察觉到警报感觉，就会自动化触发逃避（Avoidance）或僵死（Freezing）反应，导致人们在日常生活中陷入深深的失控感。 --- ### [30:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1841s) 逆转生物链：行为决定一切 要打破这种被本能与创伤情绪劫持的死循环，梅尔指出了两条路径：一是寻求专业持牌心理咨询师的帮助，花几个月时间深挖自我的默认思维模式并对其进行重构；二是直接在日常中“倒转顺序”（Reverse the chain），采取行为优先的法则。 史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）补充道，99%的人其实都心知肚明自己该做什么——比如凌晨两点不该吃冰淇淋、早晨应该出门跑5公里、应该主动联系朋友家人，但绝大多数人依然无法付诸实践。梅尔对此解释称，决定人类行为的从来不是理性大脑，而是身体深处的“感觉”。只要“感觉不想做”，人就会放弃。 - **情绪驱动生活的陷阱**：人们可以滔滔不绝地讨论自己“应该”做什么，但一到关键时刻，恐惧、抵触或习惯性的防御机制就会全面接管身体。 - **行为打破循环**：即便完全理解了这套生物学链条，梅尔坦言自己每天醒来依然要经历本能的抗拒；唯一破局的办法就是绕过“感觉”，直接用行动截断默认的下行链条。 ### [33:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1999s) 即使讨厌某些事，你依然可以去做：学会与内在情绪共舞 梅尔·罗宾斯（Mel Robbins）直接对着镜头向所有观众和听众强调了一个核心观点：**你可能永远都不会喜欢那些你必须去做的事情，但你依然有能力去完成它们。** 她坦承自己每天都面临无数抗拒感——她极度讨厌早起，但闹钟一响还是会爬起来；她讨厌清理洗碗机，但依旧动手收拾；她讨厌锻炼，很多时候甚至讨厌吃健康食品，可她依然选择去做。更难的是在情绪失控的关头，比如想对丈夫大吼大叫时，让自己深呼吸、平复心绪，这同样是她抗拒却选择坚持做的事。 之所以逼自己做到这些，是因为梅尔在过去太长的人生中，完全被情绪、焦虑、创伤反应和恐惧牵着鼻子走。她形容自己现在的生活是一种“日常的舞蹈（daily dance）”——她不断拉扯自己回到平和与一致性的状态，立志展现为自己内心真正渴望成为的人，而不是沦为当下即时感受的奴隶。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 情绪驱动与行为驱动的对比 accDescr: 对比由创伤和即时情绪主导的被动反应生活与基于对齐感和自主选择的行动方式 subgraph Reactive["受困模式：情绪支配"] R1["即时情绪 / 焦虑 / 恐惧"] --> R2["被动行为与创伤反应"] R2 --> R3["深陷失控与内耗"] end subgraph Aligned["觉醒模式：自主对齐"] A1["承认抗拒情绪（即便不喜欢）"] --> A2["主动选择行为（对齐内在标准）"] A2 --> A3["重获内心掌控感与平静"] end ``` ### [34:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2081s) “内在驱动”还是“被生活拖拽”：成就背后的隐秘伤痕 史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）将话题引向了年底人们最普遍的困惑：当我们到了30岁左右，怎么知道自己到底真正想要什么？该设定什么样的目标？史蒂芬提出了一个困扰他已久的问题：“我到底是被内在抱负驱动着前进（driven），还是被某些东西强行拖拽着往前跑（dragged）？”梅尔立刻反驳说史蒂芬是她所认识的最具自驱力的人，但史蒂芬直言不讳地指出，很多时候所谓极度的进取心，本质上不过是在逃避某些东西：“每当有人跟我解释他们的动力来源时，听起来全像是被耻辱感、父亲的评价、深层的不安全感给生生拖拽着走。” 梅尔深表赞同，并坦言只要承认这种被拖拽的状态，人才能夺回力量，坐回驾驶座。回顾自己的成长，她分享了曾被精神科医生点破的深刻创伤：四年级时，曾有个孩子趁她熟睡时爬到她身上，睡眠本应是人最安全的时刻，但那一刻彻底摧毁了她的安全基线，导致她的自主神经系统从未真正重置回安全状态。加上抚养人喜怒无常的个性，梅尔从小便陷入极度警觉（hypervigilance），永远在奔跑忙碌。“因为只要你跑得够快，就没人能抓得住你；在这个语境下，放慢脚步反而意味着危险。” 成年后的高成就往往也来自这种补偿心理： - **童年的正向强化机制**：大多数人在成长过程中只有在取得成就时才能获得关注与认可，因此将自我价值牢牢捆绑在外界掌声上。 - **追逐外物的幻灭感**：史蒂芬分享自己在年轻时被欲望拖拽着拼命赚取“一百万英镑、六块腹肌、漂亮女友和路虎揽胜运动版（Range Rover Sport）”，但当全部得手后却迎来了存在主义危机，意识到这些物质完全无法弥补内心的缺口。 - **无意识的逃避手段**：人们往往通过过度忙碌、酗酒、无休止地追名逐利来对抗深层的自我厌恶，所做的大多是应激反应而非清醒选择。 - **抚平神经系统**：梅尔表示，直到通过传统谈话疗法、与丈夫共同进行的引导式 MDMA 疗法、EMDR（眼动脱敏再加工）以及行为激活疗法，她才把紧绷的“体内引擎”抚平，真正学会落回身体之中。 ### [40:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2401s) “让他们去吧”理论（Let Them Theory）的诞生 当史蒂芬提及梅尔近来广受关注的“让他们去吧”理论（Let Them Theory）时，梅尔强调这不仅仅是一项行为技巧，而是一个极度深刻的生活真理：**掌控自己人生最快的方式，就是停止去控制身边的每一个人。** 大多数人根本没有意识到，自己把多少精力、时间和注意力浪费在为别人的所作所为抓狂上，对那些自己根本无法控制的事情患得患失。 梅尔透露，这个让她重获心灵平静的理论，其实是她女儿教给她的。当时梅尔的儿子奥克（Oak）正准备参加高三的返校舞会（Junior Prom）。因为儿子性格寡言，一切都拖到最后一刻才手忙脚乱地准备——加急隔夜寄送特定的阿迪达斯 Stan Smith 球鞋、租礼服、临时找舞伴、买胸花等等，梅尔的脑中不断涌现各种评判与控制欲。 在舞会前的拍照派对上，天空中突然下起了倾盆冰雹，雨水横着砸下来，孩子们都没带伞。梅尔得知儿子和同伴们居然完全没订晚宴餐厅，便忍不住当场焦虑爆发，甚至引发其他家长的恐慌，准备打电话叫披萨或订酒店。就在控制欲的“火山”即将喷发时，刚从大学回家的女儿肯德尔（Kendall）一把抓住了梅尔的手臂，平静地对她说：“让他们去吧（Let them）。” - **现场的反差冲突**：20个衣着华丽、盛装出席的高中生，顶着狂风冰雹，居然提议去一家只有一张桌子大小的路边墨西哥卷饼摊（Taco stand）吃晚餐。 - **女儿的当头棒喝**：女儿提醒梅尔：“如果他们想顶着倾盆大雨去卷饼摊，把礼服和新球鞋全毁了，那就让他们去吧！这是他们自己的问题，不是你的问题。” - **立竿见影的解脱感**：梅尔在心中默念“让他们去吧”，内心的控制欲瞬间松绑——儿子的鞋毁不毁有什么要紧？为什么不去操心自己今晚去哪吃晚餐，反而为别人瞎操心？这一刻彻底改变了她与周围世界的关系。 ### [44:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2689s) “由他们去”（Let Them）理论与放下控制欲 Mel Robbins 指出，生活中充斥着各种让人焦虑和急躁的细小场景：比如晚上坐在餐厅里，服务员忙得团团转没空理睬你的餐桌；或者在排队时，周围的人焦躁不安、不停扭动，队伍管理人员先放行另一列队伍而不是你所在的这列。面对这些日常挫折，最好的应对方式就是默念两个字：“由他们去”（Let them）——让他们去忙，让他们先照顾别的桌子，让他们去排他们的队。 这种心态同样适用于人生中重大得多的议题。例如当你的孩子想要退学时，作为父母，你可以表达你的观点和建议，但归根结底那是他们自己的人生，最终只能“由他们去”。Steven Bartlett 提问，这种心态的核心究竟是什么？这仅仅是通过降低自身期望来消除失望、从而保护幸福感，还是在心理学层面有更深层的机制，让人彻底从无谓的压力和控制欲中解脱出来？ Steven 分析道，当我们替别人承担问题时，我们实际上是将自己的期待强加在他人身上。就像 Mel 之前对待儿子的舞会一样：她对儿子的着装、鞋子放在哪里、晚上的行程应该是什么样抱有强烈的预设，而当现实未达预期时，便催生了不必要的痛苦、控制欲、焦虑和高度警觉。只要说一句“由他们去”，就等于斩断了那根不必要的期望绳索，无需自找麻烦地把别人的课题揽在自己身上。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 控制心理与由他们去思维模式对比 accDescr: 对比强加控制导致的负面循环与由他们去心态带来的自我觉察与解脱路径。 subgraph Trap["强加控制的负面循环"] A["他人行为未达预期"] --> B["强加个人意志与期望"] B --> C["情绪挂钩产生焦虑与执念"] C --> D["过度补偿/讨好或爆发冲突"] end subgraph Freedom["'由他们去' 解脱路径"] E["遭遇不满状况"] --> F["默念 '由他们去' (Let Them)"] F --> G["斩断能量纠缠与控制欲"] G --> H["退回内心：审视自身真实责任与需求"] end ``` --- ### [46:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2802s) 斩断能量挂钩与找回内在责任 Mel 强调，践行“由他们去”存在必要的界限与例外：作为父母，绝不能对孩子放任不管，设置保护边界（guardrails）依然是家长的职责。然而在绝大多数人际关系中，我们都在过度试图控制他人，这恰恰在毁掉彼此的关系。例如，周末你看到朋友们聚在一起吃早午餐却没有邀请你，这时候最好的态度依然是“由他们去”。 当你的情绪被他人牵动时，本质上是你把自己的“能量钩子”（energetic hook）挂到了别人身上。你对别人的行为该怎样、不该怎样产生评判，这种评判通常源自你内在的不安全感、控制欲或焦虑。一旦你将能量钩挂在他人身上，你就丧失了对自己的控制权，因为你试图通过聚焦他人来获得对外部生活的掌控。 Mel 指出，“由他们去”绝不等同于强行自我麻痹说“我不在乎”、“我无所谓”。如果你内心泛起了情绪波澜，就证明你其实很在乎，情绪就是受影响的铁证。大多数人知道应该“放下”，却不知道具体该怎么做。而说出“由他们去”会带来两个心理转变： - **承认现实与允许发生**：不仅坦然承认“朋友去聚餐没叫我”这个客观事实，也正视“这确实让我不爽”的内在情绪，并以一种居高临下的从容姿态允许这件事发生。 - **将焦点强制拉回自身**：不再对别人的所作所为抓狂，而是逼迫自己反求诸己：“既然这让我这么难受，我究竟需要承担什么责任？” 这种内省会迫使你面对真实的自我：是因为自己平时性格有毒？是因为自己从不主动组织聚会、邀请他人？还是自己需要明白朋友聚会不必每次都有我，甚至意识到自己需要去看看心理医生？通过降低对外在的妄求，你停止把目光锁定在别人身上，转而为自己想要的人生负起全部责任。 --- ### [49:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2960s) 守住内心的平静与力量 谈到备受大众喜爱的金句——“守住你的平静，守住你的力量”（Stay in your peace, stay in your power），Mel 解释这与上述逻辑完全相通。一旦你开始觉察，就会发现自己有多么容易被别人的举动激怒，无论是咖啡馆里的陌生人还是家里的亲戚。 Mel 分享了刚刚过去的感恩节经历：他们一家回老家探望父母，由于父母住处较小，Mel 一家在不远处租了房子。每次商量是在父母家聚还是在出租屋聚时，大家都会对“谁应该在哪里”产生各种心理预期。换作以前的 Mel，情绪早就被对方的预期牢牢钩住、陷入纠结和争执；而现在的她只是平静地选择“由他们去”。 每个人都有权产生属于他们自己的情绪反应，管理他人的情绪绝不是你的责任。很多人之所以反复陷入有毒的关系动态中，正是因为自己主动参与了这种互动——别人触发了你，你立刻改变自己的应对方式，开始过度补偿、讨好他人，或者大发雷霆，最终导致矛盾爆发。对方永远不会改变，你无法控制他人，但你绝对能够改变自己投入到这段关系中的能量。 --- ### [51:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3060s) 破除“别人能让你幸福”的谎言与健康界限 Steven 提到 Mel 曾被问及“听过最糟糕的建议是什么”，Mel 当时的回答是：“最糟糕的建议，莫过于‘别人能够让你幸福’。”Mel 极其赞同这一观点：金钱买不到幸福，其他人也无法给你带来幸福。许多人把毕生精力都浪费在试图推动、强迫他人按照某种特定模式生活，而如果你把这些能量全收回来、留给自己，你就会拥有充沛的精力去采取行动、改变思维，去创造自己真正渴望的生活。 在确立界限方面，Mel 明确指出了介入的原则： - **必须干预的底线**：涉及危险（如醉酒驾车）、自我毁灭或歧视等严重恶行时，必须坚决干预。 - **干预后的放手哲学**：如果朋友深陷成瘾泥潭，你可以为他组织戒瘾干预，在经济允许的情况下帮他支付康复中心的费用；但在这之后，你必须“由他们去”——他最终如何抉择是他自己的课题。 这种做法将行动的立足点完全放在了你自身：你展现出的行为完全源自你的个人价值观、你渴望成为的人，而不是出于义务、操纵或斤斤计较的人际利益交换。 --- ### [52:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3179s) 真正的慷慨与看清自我的试金石 对于这种态度是“自私”还是“无私”的探讨，Mel 直言不讳地反驳了“自私”的说法，认为这是人际交往中最慷慨的举动之一：不去控制他人并不代表漠不关心，而是清醒地认识到对方是一个拥有独立情感、人生轨迹、价值观和期望的完整生命。当你横加干涉、试图为对方搞定一切、甚至强行改变对方的情绪时，你实际上剥夺了对方经历必要挫折的权利，剥夺了对方承担人生责任的机会。 每一段人际关系都是一场能量交换。解除能量挂钩在长远来看既是对自我的保护，也是一种充满好奇心的自我探索。过去你习惯借由对他人生气来转移对自身问题的注意力；而当你把能量收回时，那些真正困扰你的事情就会水落石出。例如，如果你对嫂子从不主动来探望你感到愤怒，说明你其实很在乎这段姑嫂关系；此时你需要问自己：我到底是在乎“谁对谁错”、非要针锋相对争个高低，还是真正在乎与对方建立一段良好的关系？ 面对具有毒性倾向或自恋特质（narcissistic traits）的人群时，“由他们去”同样展现出极强的心理防御效果。心理学研究表明，自恋人格大多是后天形成的，并且为了满足其源源不断的心理供给（narcissistic supply），他们几乎绝无可能为你而改变。与其卷入对方的情感泥潭，不如退后一步默念“由他们去”，冷静看清局势，不再随之起舞。 ### [55:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3315s) 构建情绪防护罩与 Chris 的重生之路 在人际互动中，Mel Robbins 阐述了如何运用心理预期来建立一道坚不可摧的“情绪力场”（Emotional force field）。当你清楚对方的为人、深谙你们之间长达数年的互动模式，并能准确预判对方即将发脾气（Tantrum）时，最好的办法不是迎头硬撞或让自己被情绪激怒，而是全然开放地“任由他们去”（Let them do what they do）。这种预先接受的态度，会自然在身心周围筑起一道屏障，让你不再轻易被卷入无谓的内耗。 当 Steven Bartlett 好奇地追问这种模式是否也适用于她的丈夫 Chris 时，Mel 毫不犹豫地回答：“绝对适用！”随后她深情地分享了 Chris 近年来的蜕变。Chris 目前正在攻读超个人心理学（Transpersonal Psychology）的硕士学位，这让 Mel 感到由衷的骄傲。然而，这段旅程始于一段极其黑暗的挫败。六年前，Chris 的餐饮创业项目以失败告终，这让他整个人彻底破碎。在社会对男性普遍施加的“养家糊口”文化压力下，Chris 深感自己彻底辜负了妻子、三个孩子以及所有出资支持的亲朋好友。 雪上加霜的是，当时 Mel 拼尽全力四处奔波支撑家庭，随着她自己的事业突然爆发、声名鹊起，她所投下的巨大光环反而在无形中投射出巨大的阴影，令 Chris 感到更加渺小与不堪。为了寻找一条与自我深度连接、并与其他男性建立真诚羁绊的自救之路，Chris 创办了一个名为“Soul Degree”的男性身心静修营（Men's Retreats）。这个充满热忱的项目每年仅举办两到三次，刚开放下一年度的报名名额就在 24 小时内售罄，足见当代人对深层体验与真实连结的渴望有多么迫切。 - **Chris 当前学术追求**：攻读超个人心理学硕士学位。 - **心理低谷的起因**：餐饮创业失败导致经济重创，无法承担传统男性“养家者”的心理重负，愧对家人与亲友投资人。 - **夫妻关系的张力**：Mel 事业的迅速崛起形成了强烈的对比，加深了 Chris 挫败时的阴影感。 - **Soul Degree 项目**：历经六年的男性静修营，专注于深层连结与内心疗愈，年开营 2 至 3 次，席位在 24 小时内被抢购一空。 --- ### [57:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3459s) 目标制定的真相：从“时间地标”到自我盘点 话题顺势转入关于人生方向与目标设定的探讨。Mel 提到每年的 1 月 1 日是一个极其重大的“时间地标”（Temporal Landmark）。所谓时间地标，是指生命中那些具有特殊象征意义的时刻，它们在心理上明确划分出“之前”与“之后”，比如 30 岁或特定生日、每季度初，亦或是每月的第一天（这也是为什么很多人选择在月初去健身房办卡）。然而，绝大多数人在 1 月 1 日坐下来列新年目标清单时，都犯了一个致命的错误：忽略了当前所处的位置。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 目标设定与梦想导航机制 accDescr: 展示从现实盘点到目标增量演进，再到借由嫉妒激活梦想的逻辑闭环。 subgraph Current["1. 现状盘点与目标演进"] A["评估生命各维度<br/>（健康 / 金钱 / 关系）"] --> B["客观打分 1-10 分<br/>阐明背后原因"] B --> C["设定下一步目标<br/>（从 2 分提升至 5 分）"] end subgraph Beacon["2. 远方灯塔与梦想雷达"] D["觉察情绪触发：嫉妒心<br/>（潜意识阻断的真实渴望）"] --> E["向内解码核心价值<br/>（内心宁静 / 活力充沛 / 深度连结）"] E --> F["确立 5-10 年梦想指南针<br/>（将头抬出沙子，指引人生方向）"] end C -.->|"提供扎实行动步调"| F ``` Mel 打了个生动的比方：如果不知道你现在站在哪里，数学上是根本无法规划导航路线的；而大部分人只是猛地抬头指着远方说“我要去那里”，却对当下的坐标一无所知。她推荐了一个极其简单的纸笔练习： 1. **维度列举**：拿出一张白纸，写下人生的各个领域（如金钱、健康、人际关系、快乐指数等，列 5 个或 10 个都可以，没有固定公式）。 2. **现状打分**：用 1 到 10 分（或 1 到 5 分）给每个维度打分，并如实写下原因。 3. **微步增量**：一个务实的目标不是幻想一步登天，而是问自己：“如果我的健康现在只有 2 分，那么 5 分看起来会是什么样？我如何能把它提升两到三分？” 在 Mel 看来，**目标**是地图上的下一个落脚点，是眼前的几步台阶；而**梦想**则是另一回事。梦想需要你彻底安静下来，调动身心与灵魂的“内在指南针”，去遥望 5 年或 10 年后的远景。如果不知道自己到底梦想什么，最快速的路径不是问“谁激励了我”，而是去诚实地追问：“**我正在嫉妒谁？**” Mel 直言不讳地指出：“嫉妒，本质上就是被阻断的渴望（Jealousy is just blocked desire）。”只有当你发自内心地极度渴望某种东西，且深信对方拥有而自己的潜意识却认定“我无法拥有”时，嫉妒才会以负面情绪的形式爆发。与其压抑它，不如借此深入探索：你嫉妒的往往不是豪车名表等外在物质，而是别人身上的平静从容、融洽的家庭关系，或是那股充满生命力的能量。梦想不等于未来一定会原样兑现，它的真正使命是“把你的头从沙子里拔出来”，像灯塔一样为你指引全然不同的人生航向。 --- ### [01:02:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3739s) 面对创伤与恐惧：“由他们去”夺回人生主导权 Steven 深有感触地读了一封上一期节目观众留下的真实留言。这位 71 岁的老人写道，自己幼年曾遭受猥亵虐待，但在漫长的岁月中一直不敢告诉父母，因为母亲总是将问题归咎于自己；整整 71 年来，老人一直生活在巨大的“恐惧”（FEAR）掌控之中，直到在 Mel 的播客中看到了同理与指引，才终于找到面对自我、在余生中追求更好生活的勇气。 听到这段留言，Mel 动情地重申了“任由他们论”（Let Them Theory）在应对恐惧时的深层力量。当你因为极度害怕对方的反应而不敢开口时，唯一能打破僵局的方式就是提前告诉自己：“让他们去吧，让他们给出他们想给的反应。” - **允许他人展现人性弱点**：预料到父母或他人可能会有糟糕甚至愤怒的反应，并允许他们作为一个普通人去宣泄。 - **把焦点放回自身**：说出真相的核心不是为了操纵或乞求对方的善意反应，而是为了让你自己鼓起勇气，打破长期的沉默与自我否认，大声承认“这件事确实发生过”。 - **恐惧的本质与代价**：恐惧会驱使人逃避、退缩、掩盖感受，让人将掌控权拱手让给他人潜在的审判。 - **边界与自我疗愈**：放手“让他们去”绝非容忍他人虐待或践踏自己的底线，而是主动承担起属于自己的三份责任——**表达真相的责任**、**捍卫界限的责任**与**走向愈合的责任**。唯有这样，人才能真正掌控余生。 --- ### [01:06:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3960s) 赞助商与特别通道 本段结尾插播了两则推广信息： - **Whoop 智能健康手环**：Steven 分享了作为忠实用户的使用体验，称其为睡眠、身体恢复与全面健康的“游戏规则颠覆者”，能够 24 小时监测生理指标并提供改善指导。在节日季期间，通过专属链接 `join.whoop.com/ceo` 为节目社群提供专属折扣。 - **The Conversation Cards（对话卡牌）**：针对粉丝热烈反响常年售罄的情况，Steven 提供了描述栏中的候补通道，加入候补名单（Waiting list）的用户将获得提前 1 小时优先购买的特权。 ### [01:07:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4037s) 47岁确诊ADHD：一段始于儿子的意外发现 当 Steven Bartlett 问及 Mel Robbins 是何时被确诊患有注意缺陷多动障碍（ADHD）时，Mel 回忆道，那大约是在她 47 岁的时候。这一诊断彻底改变了她的人生。长达 47 年里，她的大脑运转方式以及内在感受始终让她觉得自己“身上有某种缺陷”，却始终找不到答案；而这一纸诊断终于给出了合理解释。 Mel 提到，她确诊的途径与绝大多数成年女性如出一辙——都是通过自己的孩子。她与丈夫 Chris 育有三个孩子，最小的儿子 Oakley 聪明活泼，但学业上却遇到了巨大困难。直到 Oakley 读四年级，夫妻俩才震惊地发现孩子竟然不会阅读。作为父母，Mel 感到自责与不可思议，但之所以连学校都没察觉，是因为 Oakley 发展出了一套极强的“过度补偿机制”：他在课堂上极其擅长口头表达，总是第一个举手发言、高谈阔论，从而掩盖了他完全读不懂文字的真相。 随着年级升高，数学题变成了长文本应用题，需要真正的阅读理解能力，加上 Oakley 还患有严重的书写障碍（Dysgraphia，写字歪扭得“就像用脚在写字”一样），问题彻底暴露。此前，Mel 感到十分困惑：儿子坐在电视机前打几小时电子游戏时能表现出不可思议的“过度专注”（Hyperfocus）和极高的手指敏捷度，因此她一度以为儿子只是单纯讨厌学校、在故意叛逆。幸好公立学校的一位优秀老师敏锐地建议他们带孩子去做专业评估。 在神经心理学专家的全面测试后，报告显示 Oakley 患有严重的阅读障碍（Dyslexia）、严重书写障碍、执行功能障碍（Executive Functioning Issues，即大脑中负责统筹规划、条理性与前瞻性思考的“指挥官”角色受损），以及 ADHD。 坐在儿科医生办公室拿到这份评估报告时，Mel 看着上面的描述，突然抬头问他们熟识的儿科医生 Mark：“Mark，你觉得我……会不会也有 ADHD？” Mark 放下手中的文件，直截了当地说：“我觉不觉得？你当然有！你是我整个诊所里见过的最具 ADHD 症状的家长！” 医生随即列举了她的日常表现：虽然极为聪明聪慧，却从来言而无信；每次离开诊所都答应会回电话，却一次都没打过；带孩子漏掉所有的定期体检，甚至几年都不来一次；每年开学需要健康体检表时，总是火急火燎地赶在最后一刻求医生通融加急。面对 Mel “为什么从不告诉我”的追问，医生坦诚回答：“因为我是你孩子的医生，不是你的医生。” 随后，Mel 亲自去做了专业测试，结果证实她拥有与儿子完全相同的神经特质图谱：确诊 ADHD 及阅读障碍。 --- ### [01:11:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4292s) 被忽视的“迷失的一代”：女性 ADHD 与焦虑症的恶性循环 Mel 坦言，在确诊之前，她和 Steven 一样对 ADHD 存在严重误解，以为它仅仅代表“无法集中注意力”，但事实远非如此。深入了解后，她意识到男孩与女孩在 ADHD 症状上的表现完全不同，这一认知盲区导致了整整一代被医学界遗漏的女性——所谓的“迷失的一代”（The Lost Generation）。 在 20 世纪 60 年代末至 70 年代初医学界研究 ADHD 时，所有的样本和观察对象几乎都是男孩。男孩通常在 7 岁左右发病，主要外化为身体多动、无法安静坐着或难以控制肢体行为。然而，女孩的症状通常要到 12 岁左右才开始显现，且表现为截然相反的内化形式： - 不会表现出剧烈的外在多动，而是陷入“白日梦”式的注意力涣散； - 生活与学习节奏混乱、丢三落四、缺乏条理； - 最关键的是，女孩倾向于把所有的问题向内归咎于自己，陷入自我怀疑与自责中。 此时正值女孩青春期发育与激素剧烈波动的阶段，如果在这一关键时期缺乏系统性的干预（无论是药物支持，还是养成支持性的生活习惯与外在系统），首当其冲的后遗症就是产生严重的焦虑症。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 女性ADHD演变为慢性焦虑的机制路径 accDescr: 展示青春期未确诊女性ADHD从注意力涣散演变为长期焦虑被错误治疗的因果链条 subgraph Trigger["青春期生理与环境变化 (约12岁)"] A["神经发育特质：内化型ADHD"] --> C["注意力涣散、丢三落四、思维混乱"] B["青春期荷尔蒙剧烈波动"] --> C end subgraph Internalization["心理内化与代偿失控"] C --> D["过度自我归咎：'是不是我有毛病？'"] D --> E["持续警觉恐惧：怕考试砸锅、怕置物柜爆炸、怕遗忘事件"] end subgraph ClinicalMisstep["医学误诊与代偿性后果"] E --> F["严重焦虑症爆发 (高中至大学期)"] F --> G["医学界只对焦虑症对症开药，忽略底层根源"] G --> H["未确诊的底层核心：成人女性ADHD"] end ``` 女孩坐在教室里，无法强迫自己专注，生活一团混乱，随之而来的是铺天盖地的惊恐警报：害怕走进考场一无所知，害怕打开置物柜东西又散落一地，害怕又忘记好友的生日或重要的代办事项。这种如影随形的恐惧催生了高度焦虑。Mel 表示自己正是这一模式的典型范本：在 70 年代末上小学的她们这代女性，高中和大学期间普遍爆发严重焦虑症，医学系统却只给她们针对焦虑进行治疗和开药，从未触及潜藏在底层的真正根源——未被诊断的 ADHD。 --- ### [01:15:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4520s) 大脑里的交响乐团：执行功能受损与注意力困境 Mel 解释道，理解 ADHD 的核心在于认识到专注力并非单一功能，它需要大脑前额叶皮层（Prefrontal Cortex）中两套不同的神经网络协同运转，就像一位交响乐团的指挥家： 1. **抑制降噪功能**：能够压低次要乐器的音量（例如让弦乐声部降低声响）； 2. **放大聚焦功能**：能够集中并强化关键声部的专注（例如凸显打击乐器的节奏）。 健康的执行功能可以迅速让背景声沉寂下来；但对于 ADHD 大脑而言，这位“乐团指挥”失去了控场与切换频道的能力。 Mel 生动回忆起自己在达特茅斯学院（Dartmouth College）贝克图书馆（Baker Library）书库自习时的场景：她原本带着书本端坐下来打算认真复习，但这套神经开关根本无法压低环境噪点。她无法将注意力集中在书本上，因为她的感官正在无差别地接收所有信号——肚子咕噜作响的生理感觉、走廊上细微的脚步声、周围人的动向，以及突然意识到自己想上厕所的冲动。指挥家无法让任何杂音安静下来，导致她只能起身四处游荡，无法进入深度学习。这种在纷乱感官信号中挣扎的状态，贯穿了她大半辈子的日常。 对此，Steven 提出了一个深刻的疑问：这种对周遭环境极度敏锐、无法关闭感官天线的状态，是否本质上是一种生存反应（Survival Response）？是否曾有研究探讨过创伤（Trauma）与 ADHD 之间的直接联系？Mel 随即给出了肯定的回答，并指出著名心理医生与成瘾/创伤专家加博尔·马特（Gabor Maté）博士正是提出这一前沿观点的重要代表，他提供了令人信服的研究证据，表明 ADHD 症状与童年早期创伤之间存在深刻且高度相关的神经生理纽带。 ### [01:18:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4693s) 童年创伤、过度警觉与 ADHD 的深层关联 斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）向梅尔·罗宾斯（Mel Robbins）分享了他与专家（指著名心理与成瘾创伤学者加博尔·马泰，Gabor Maté）对话时学到的核心观点：在充满混乱、高压或创伤的环境中长大的孩子，为了在心理上生存下去，本能地学会了“将注意力切断”（tune out）。例如，当父母经常在家中爆发激烈争吵时，孩子为了自我保护会关闭对外界的感知，或者在必要时极度专注地捕捉风吹草动——这种机制正是 ADHD 中“走神”与“过度专注”（hyperfocus）的神经保护雏形。在充满压力的成长环境下，这种策略起初是自救，但长期下来却重塑了大脑应对刺激的方式。 梅尔深表赞同并补充道，如果家庭环境极不稳定，孩子甚至根本无法真正“切断”感知，而是被迫陷入一种时刻紧绷的过度警觉状态（hypervigilant mode）。这种长期共存的状态——一方面身体要处理内在的求生应激警报，另一方面还要监控房间里争吵是否会升级——最终会彻底“烧毁大脑的指挥神经中枢”（fry the conductor in your brain）。梅尔感叹，理解童年创伤与注意力的这种机制是一个重大突破，特别是对于许多成年后才确诊 ADHD 的女性而言：她们几十年间一直在接受焦虑症治疗，直到追根溯源才发现底层的核心其实是注意力调节障碍，而最深处的根源往往正是童年创伤在大脑神经回路上留下的那道“扭结”（kink in the wires）。 ### [01:20:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4811s) 围绝经期的身心失控：健康习惯失效与被忽视的生理巨变 当话题转向更年期/围绝经期（menopause）时，梅尔忍不住脱口而出：“我们一定要聊这个吗？天啊！”这种下意识的抵触源于她当前正在经历的巨大困惑与无力感。梅尔坦言，同龄女性都在讨论围绝经期，因为这种生理变化让人感到身体彻底脱离了自己的掌控。尽管梅尔一直保持着极其规律且严格的健康生活方式——通过强制自己做不想做的事来坚持了至少八年的自律习惯——但如今这些方法在体内雌激素水平断崖式下跌面前全部失效。 她的身体正在不受控制地发胖膨胀，脑雾（brain fog）愈发频繁，到了夜里整个人更像是一个“滚烫的熔炉”（furnace），散发的燥热让同床共枕的丈夫难以安睡。梅尔指出，人体从大脑到全身各处的神经网络都在依赖雌激素运转。面对雌激素的流失，市面上的应对方案极其混乱：究竟是口服药片、涂抹药膏，还是贴雌激素贴片？是否需要购买降温床垫或换用竹纤维床单来缓解夜间盗汗？为了搞清楚体内真实的激素波动，女性往往需要频繁抽血化验，这不仅耗时费力，更是一笔普通人难以承担的巨额开销。更令人沮丧的是，主流医学界似乎对这一影响半数人类的重大生理过渡阶段缺乏真正清晰、系统的应对方案。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 围绝经期激素波动与身心失调链路 accDescr: 展示体内雌激素下降如何导致身体变化、传统生活方式失效以及医学应对困境的完整流程。 subgraph Hormonal_Decline["激素基础衰退"] A["围绝经期到来<br/>（雌激素水平断崖式波动）"] end subgraph Physical_Impacts["生理与日常失控表征"] B["代谢失调<br/>（既有自律习惯失效、体型膨胀）"] C["认知与神经症状<br/>（脑雾加剧、专注力受损）"] D["血管舒缩症状<br/>（夜间盗汗、严重潮热）"] end subgraph Diagnostic_Dilemma["应对与医疗困境"] E["高昂监测成本<br/>（频繁抽血检查各项指标）"] F["缺乏统一定论<br/>（口服、贴片与生活方式意见冲突）"] end A --> B A --> C A --> D B & C & D --> E E --> F ``` ### [01:23:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5022s) 寿命延长与医疗研究盲区：被漠视的女性半边天 梅尔深入探讨了更年期危机背后的历史与制度原因。直到 1980 年代后期，女性才被正式纳入广泛的临床医学研究；在此之前，甚至在现代实验中，科研人员为了避免女性经期激素波动干扰药物测试结果，往往只选取绝经后的女性作为受试群体。这直接导致全球超过半数的人口在最关键的激素生理过渡期遭遇了长期的医学空白。妇产科教育体系甚至一度仅用极短的篇幅轻描淡写地带过更年期，主流医学给女性的建议往往只是冷漠的“大概熬过十年，你就会恢复过来”，梅尔直斥这种态度对于理应受到呵护的女性而言是“不可接受的”。 斯蒂芬惊讶地承认，自己直到大约一年前在节目中采访专家时才首次了解更年期。梅尔调侃他身为三十出头的男性不知情很正常，但也提醒他男人同样会经历睾酮下降的“男性更年期”（manopause）。现代人类的预期寿命已经大幅跨越了女性的生育周期，女性在绝经后往往还有三四十年的充沛生命需要度过。如今医学界甚至开始探讨如何通过推迟甚至阻止更年期、维持自然月经来保持雌激素自生分泌。但梅尔也强调，激素替代疗法（HRT）具有高度个体化特征，如果家族有乳腺癌病史，盲目补充激素可能带来致命危险。这种“置身其中却知之甚少”的状态，构成了现代女性普遍面对的恐惧。 - **医学研究历史空白**：女性直到 20 世纪 80 年代末才被系统纳入医学临床试验，此前大量药物测试排斥具有自然经期激素波动的女性。 - **寿命与生育周期脱节**：人类当前预期寿命相比传统生育年龄延长了 30 至 40 年，女性需在低雌激素状态下度过近半生。 - **缺乏标准化方案**：针对更年期的肠道健康论、激素贴片与抽血检测众说纷纭，且对有乳腺癌遗传风险的人群存在明确禁忌。 ### [01:28:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5283s) 难以回答的追问：“究竟是什么在驱动着你？” 在进入节目的下一阶段前，斯蒂芬向梅尔提出了一个长期困扰他自己的深刻困惑。他坦承，外界常常问他两个问题——“究竟是什么在驱动你前行？”以及“你的终极目标是什么？”每当遇到这些提问时，斯蒂芬都会陷入停顿，因为他不想给出一个随口编造的敷衍答案。 斯蒂芬反思道，正如梅尔之前所讨论的，人类许多核心驱动力深藏在潜意识之中，自己其实很难彻底厘清底层动力究竟是什么。更重要的是，在完成了许多原本设定的人生目标之后，他逐渐意识到“达成目标”本身并不能带来持久的满足，因而开始怀疑所谓预设的具体“目标”是否存在；相比之下，他现在更在乎的是每天自己能够处于怎样的一种内在存在状态（state of being）和情绪体验之中。 ### [01:28:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5324s) 登顶之后的目标：享受当下与成年子女的亲密联结 面对刚刚读过的那段改变他人命运的深刻留言，史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）坦言自己对于设定目标持有审慎态度，随后将这个问题抛给了梅尔·罗宾斯（Mel Robbins）：在已经登上人生巅峰、拥有数以百万计的追随者、稳定的财务积蓄、体面的物质生活以及幸福美满的家庭之后，她现在的人生目标究竟是什么？梅尔坦率地回答，她当前最重要的目标就是尽可能地去尽情享受这一切，同时与丈夫及孩子们保持极佳的关系。谈及如今已经成年的孩子们能够彼此成为无话不谈的挚友，甚至主动选择与父母共度时光时，梅尔忍不住眼泛泪光。 在史蒂文追问她为何对此如此动情时，梅尔感慨地解释道，孩子们不仅个性鲜明且充满魅力，更关键的是他们是出于自主意愿选择陪伴父母。她在网络上曾看到过一项令人触目惊心的统计数据：一个人一生中与父母相处的时间，在成年离家之后会呈现悬崖式的暴跌（"literally goes off a cliff"）。因此，当成年的孩子们依然愿意花大量时间围绕在身边时，这种被主动选择的亲情联结带给了她莫大的慰藉与幸福感。 - **享受既有成果**：经历多年的打拼后，学会停下脚步、全心全意地体验与享受当下的丰盈生活。 - **维系亲子纽带**：见证子女成年后形成独立、独特的个性，并发展出像挚友般的深度家庭关系。 - **陪伴时间的断崖效应**：深刻体会到成年子女与父母相处时光的珍贵，珍惜每一次主动选择的家庭团聚。 --- ### [01:30:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5435s) 上位嘉宾的提问：重塑神经系统与战胜内在阻力 节目进入了《CEO日记》（The Diary Of A CEO）的传统收尾环节——由上一位不知名的做客嘉宾为下一位嘉宾留下一个盲盒式问题。这道被史蒂文戏称为“最刁钻难答”的问题是：“你所克服过的最艰难的挑战是什么？”梅尔沉思片刻后给出了两个维度的答案：如果从日常微观层面来看，是“每天早晨在完全不想动弹时克服阻力从床上爬起来”。她强调，感受身体内部产生的巨大阻力，却依然能够逼迫自己掀开被子去直面全新的一天，这正是人生启动任何改变所必须掌握的核心技能。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 神经系统重塑与应对阻力的机制 accDescr: 展示从克服日常阻力到深层重塑默认神经反应的转变过程 subgraph DailyAction["日常微观技能"] A["感受身体阻力与抗拒"] --> B["克服迟滞：按时起床直面一天"] B --> C["沉淀为促成改变的核心行动力"] end subgraph DeepRewiring["长期系统重塑"] D["创伤、恐惧与焦虑驱动的旧回路"] --> E["建立即时自我觉察（跳出'灰熊模式'）"] E --> F["重塑神经反射：以行动与内心平和为默认导向"] end DailyAction -.->|"日积月累驱动"| DeepRewiring ``` 而若从漫长时间跨度的宏观层面衡量，梅尔认为自己战胜的最艰巨挑战是“重塑自己的神经系统”（rewiring the nervous system）。她花费了数年甚至数十年的时间，努力去清除和解除过往深植于体内的负面印记；虽然无法彻底抹除过往，但她成功打破了原本由童年创伤、恐惧和慢性焦虑所牢固绑架的自动化默认反应回路。如今的她具备了敏锐的自我觉察工具，一旦觉察到情绪即将失控便能瞬间自省制止（例如提醒自己“绝不能在此刻变成暴躁咆哮的灰熊”），从而将生活重心稳稳锚定在行动导向与内心平和之上。 --- ### [01:32:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5548s) 真实的责任感与让“隐形者”被看见的使命 面对梅尔的诚挚剖析，史蒂文表达了极高的敬意与由衷赞赏。他盛赞梅尔拥有一种极为罕见的天赋与智慧，能够以毫不做作的真实感与极致的脆弱姿态，把复杂的心理机制进行抽丝剥茧般的剖析并清晰表达出来。在史蒂文看来，当一个人拥有能够促使一位71岁的老妇人毅然扭转生活轨迹的巨大影响力时，这份天赋便转化为了沉甸甸的使命与责任。虽然梅尔幽默地调侃展现真实“可比戴着面具装模作样轻松多了”，但史蒂文坚持认为，这种能赋予他人生活转机的非凡能力，正是世间最宝贵且富有深远意义的责任。 在对话临近尾声时，梅尔动情地补充了支撑她不知疲倦前行的真正动力源泉。她指出，自己之所以怀有如此强烈的驱动力，是因为她深知世上有太多人每天都在以“隐形、停滞且不被看见”（invisible and stuck and not seen）的状态痛苦度日。 > “如果我分享自己用过的任何微小方法，或是分享我所面临挑战的任何细节——哪怕只是公开抱怨更年期的潮热与腹胀——能够让这个世界上任何角落里的某一个人突然意识到：‘原来我不是唯一一个在受苦的人’，那我所做的一切就有了意义。” 梅尔坦言自己在身体和大脑中被困了太多个十年，曾深陷于孤立无援的自我怀疑中，以为自己坏掉了且无可救药；而她想向全世界证明这绝非事实，既然有人能从同样的泥潭中走出来并逆转人生，那么任何一个人也同样能够做到。 --- ### [01:35:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5736s) 节目结语与赞助赞誉 在饱含深情的告别之后，节目进入尾声赞助口播。史蒂文·巴特利特向观众介绍了长期赞助商代餐饮品品牌 Huel。他分享道，在自己生活极度繁忙、需要频繁往返于大西洋两岸、在英国和美国之间穿梭录制电视节目和播客的高压时期，Huel 成为了他维持健康不可或缺的营养保障。无论外部环境如何变幻或职业要求多么严苛，他都始终坚持维持全面而均衡的营养摄入。史蒂文热情呼吁想要尝试健康生活方式的听众加入“Huel 家族”（Hueligan family），并在视频描述栏中点击收听团队精心推荐的往期精彩剧集。 ## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=0s) 不要依赖动力，动力纯粹是垃圾（motivation is garbage） — Mel Robbins > [03:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=211s) 你根本不需要回头（You don't turn back） — Mel Robbins > [06:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=360s) 去关注你生活中那些糟糕透顶的事情（Pay attention to what sucks in your life） — Mel Robbins > [13:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=793s) Change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making a change — Steven Bartlett > [17:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1036s) 语言是廉价的（talk is cheap） — Mel Robbins > [33:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=1999s) 你可能永远都不会喜欢那些你必须去做的事情，但你依然有能力去完成它们。 — Mel Robbins > [40:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2401s) 掌控自己人生最快的方式，就是停止去控制身边的每一个人。 — Mel Robbins > [40:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2401s) 让他们去吧（Let them） — Kendall > [49:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=2960s) 守住你的平静，守住你的力量（Stay in your peace, stay in your power） — Mel Robbins > [51:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3060s) 最糟糕的建议，莫过于‘别人能够让你幸福’。 — Mel Robbins > [57:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=3459s) 嫉妒，本质上就是被阻断的渴望（Jealousy is just blocked desire） — Mel Robbins > [01:07:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=4037s) Mark，你觉得我……会不会也有 ADHD？ — Mel Robbins > [01:30:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5435s) 重塑自己的神经系统（rewiring the nervous system） — Mel Robbins > [01:32:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w&t=5548s) 如果我分享自己用过的任何微小方法，或是分享我所面临挑战的任何细节——哪怕只是公开抱怨更年期的潮热与腹胀——能够让这个世界上任何角落里的某一个人突然意识到：‘原来我不是唯一一个在受苦的人’，那我所做的一切就有了意义。 — Mel Robbins ## Mentioned Mel Robbins, Steven Bartlett, Chris Robbins, Kendall, Oakley, Mark 医生, Gabor Maté, The Diary Of A CEO, The Mel Robbins Podcast, Soul Degree, Whoop, The Conversation Cards, Huel, 达特茅斯学院 (Dartmouth College), 贝克图书馆 (Baker Library), Adidas Stan Smith, Range Rover Sport, EMDR, MDMA 辅助疗法 ## Video description If you enjoyed this video, I recommend you check out my first conversation with Mel, which you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kOtvoX88J0 00:00 Intro 03:14 Why you can take your life in a new direction whenever you want 06:44 How to ACTUALLY act on what you know you should do 14:20 The 'what if' moment that will change your life 18:52 It breaks my heart how stuck people feel 20:49 Why you need to WANT change to actually change 25:41 Why motivation is garbage 31:41 Why people don't change even when they say they want to 34:24 How do we know what we really want? 39:57 The fastest way to take control of your life 45:18 What not caring what others think REALLY does for you 49:20 "Stay in your peace, stay in your power" 51:00 The best advice I ever received 55:35 Your partner Chris 57:14 Setting goals that align with you 01:02:19 Why you need to stop letting people's reactions affect you 01:05:47 Ads 01:07:12 Your ADHD diagnosis 01:15:29 Finally understanding myself 01:17:34 The link between trauma and ADHD 01:19:56 Menopause, it's all so confusing 01:25:49 Menopause struggles 01:27:46 What's your goal? 01:30:19 The last guest's question You can listen to ‘The Mel Robbins Podcast’, here: https://apple.co/3R5qJLg Follow Mel: Instagram: https://bit.ly/47WT0ub Twitter: https://bit.ly/482JWUO YouTube: https://bit.ly/4a784XW Join the waitlist for The Conversation Cards: http://theconversationcards.com/ Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-by-steven-bartlett/id1291423644 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGq-a57w-aPwyi3pW7XLiHw/join FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://x.com/StevenBartlett?s=20 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Sponsors: Uber One: https://www.uber.com/gb/en/u/uber-one/ Huel: https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb Conversation Cards: https://thediary.com/products/the-cards [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEo48f_Rs4w)

[0:00] Mel Robbins: 不要依赖动力，动力纯粹是垃圾（motivation is garbage） [3:31] Mel Robbins: 你根本不需要回头（You don't turn back） [6:00] Mel Robbins: 去关注你生活中那些糟糕透顶的事情（Pay attention to what sucks in your life） [13:13] Steven Bartlett: Change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making a change [17:16] Mel Robbins: 语言是廉价的（talk is cheap） [33:19] Mel Robbins: 你可能永远都不会喜欢那些你必须去做的事情，但你依然有能力去完成它们。 [40:01] Mel Robbins: 掌控自己人生最快的方式，就是停止去控制身边的每一个人。 [40:01] Kendall: 让他们去吧（Let them） [49:20] Mel Robbins: 守住你的平静，守住你的力量（Stay in your peace, stay in your power） [51:00] Mel Robbins: 最糟糕的建议，莫过于‘别人能够让你幸福’。 [57:39] Mel Robbins: 嫉妒，本质上就是被阻断的渴望（Jealousy is just blocked desire） [67:17] Mel Robbins: Mark，你觉得我……会不会也有 ADHD？ [90:35] Mel Robbins: 重塑自己的神经系统（rewiring the nervous system） [92:28] Mel Robbins: 如果我分享自己用过的任何微小方法，或是分享我所面临挑战的任何细节——哪怕只是公开抱怨更年期的潮热与腹胀——能够让这个世界上任何角落里的某一个人突然意识到：‘原来我不是唯一一个在受苦的人’，那我所做的一切就有了意义。

[3:14] Mel Robbins: If you think about every single year of your life as a mile marker, and the fact that we all start at zero, we all end at some point... at any single moment you can pull over, stop the damn car... tune back into the navigation system that is inside you, and you can turn your life in a new direction. [13:20] Steven Bartlett: Change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making a change. [13:20] Mel Robbins: What if this is the time it works? [23:54] Mel Robbins: I think motivation is garbage. [30:36] Mel Robbins: I will never like getting out of bed, and I still get out of bed when the alarm rings [34:41] Mel Robbins: If you're on the move, nobody can catch you [45:34] Mel Robbins: Once you get your energetic hook into somebody else, you've now just lost control, because you are now trying to gain control of anything in your life... by focusing on them. [49:37] Mel Robbins: Stay in your peace, stay in your power [60:08] Mel Robbins: Jealousy is just blocked desire [62:38] Mel Robbins: Fear is something that runs people's lives—it makes you avoid, it makes you shrink, it makes you live in silence, it makes you deny what you're feeling... Take responsibility for your truth, take responsibility for expressing it, and then take responsibility for your boundaries and your healing. [67:12] Mel Robbins: Mark, do you think maybe... I have ADHD? [67:12] Dr. Mark: Do I think you have ADHD? Of course you have ADHD! You are the most ADHD parent in my entire practice... Mel, you're brilliant, and yet you never do what you say you're going to do. [96:00] Mel Robbins: I lived inside a body and a brain for too many decades going, 'I think I'm the only one who feels this way... I don't think I'm ever going to be able to fix this.' And it's simply not true.

[0:00] what really breaks my heart is how stuck [0:02] people are there are things you can do [0:06] to change your life for the better and [0:08] so let me give you the secret Mel [0:11] Robbins one of the most trusted experts [0:13] on confidence and motivation her unique [0:16] brand of raw and relatable advice has [0:18] made her one of the most sought after [0:19] speakers in the world don't rely on [0:22] motivation motivation garbage because [0:24] it's not there when you need it and the [0:26] fact is if it were easy to develop great [0:27] habits or change your mindset everybody [0:30] would have their dreams come true it is [0:32] very difficult to change because we are [0:35] hardwired to spot patterns that seem [0:37] similar and to repeat them there's also [0:40] this C voice that is talking to you all [0:42] the time going boy you really suck and [0:44] you blew that and my God you're never [0:46] going to amount to anything constantly [0:47] telling you what you think about [0:49] yourself and of course what you think [0:50] about yourself then drives the things [0:52] that you do but luckily there's two ways [0:55] around it one is to that absolutely [0:58] works [1:00] let them let them let them let them the [1:03] let them theory is based on a simple [1:05] truth the fastest way to take control of [1:08] your life is to stop controlling [1:10] everyone around you that opinion is [1:12] usually driven by your insecurity [1:14] controlling nature your anxiety and it [1:16] is ruining your relationships but when [1:18] you say let them something really [1:20] interesting happens you will [1:23] notice it it's absolutely [1:26] life-changing you will [1:30] at this time of year everybody is [1:32] thinking about changes that they want to [1:34] make in their life but it's incredibly [1:37] hard to become a new person when your [1:39] circumstances stay the same in this [1:43] episode me and Mel go on a journey to [1:46] figure out how you listening to this at [1:48] home can change your life we go through [1:52] the science we go through the proven [1:53] strategies and we go through some of the [1:55] mindset alterations we all need to make [1:58] going into next year if we want to stand [2:01] the chance of closing the gap on our [2:03] potential and when I say potential I'm [2:05] not talking about success alone I'm [2:06] talking about happiness and I'm talking [2:09] about health things that I think [2:11] everybody that listens to this podcast [2:13] cares so deeply about and there's one [2:15] thing that Mel says this idea of the let [2:18] them Theory which sounds so [2:22] simple but I honestly think could change [2:24] your life whether it's in your [2:26] relationships at work with your partner [2:28] or when someone cuts you off in traffic [2:30] this let them theory for me since Mel [2:35] told me about it has significantly [2:37] improved my life I can't wait for you to [2:39] listen to this episode Mel is just the [2:41] best and before this episode starts I [2:44] want to make a deal with you about 58% [2:47] of you that watch this podcast [2:48] frequently haven't yet hit the Subscribe [2:50] button if you enjoy what we do here [2:51] here's the deal that I want to make with [2:53] you if you hit that subscribe button I [2:56] promise you that we will keep making the [2:59] show better in every single way and we [3:01] have huge plans to turn this into more [3:03] of a documentary style conversation [3:06] where we work incredibly hard to bring [3:07] in footage of the things we're talking [3:10] about to give you greater context and [3:11] greater meaning so if you hit the [3:13] Subscribe button I promise you that we [3:16] will deliver an even greater version of [3:19] this show I hope you choose to come [3:21] along on this journey enjoy this episode [3:24] [Music] [3:31] Mel I'm thinking about the 45-year-old [3:34] Taxi Driver that's her dad I'm thinking [3:36] about Judith who has an idea for a [3:39] handbag business she wants to start but [3:41] she's 56 years old and maybe Society has [3:44] convinced her that she can't change now [3:47] she can't pivot away from where she is [3:49] I'm also thinking about the 27 year-old [3:52] medical graduate who became a dentist [3:54] because their immigrant mother told them [3:58] that was success and happiness and they [3:59] never listen to the voice inside of them [4:02] those people that are in those [4:03] situations where they feel like they've [4:04] gone so far down a [4:07] path how does one turn back move forward [4:12] I mean I don't even know what Direction [4:13] You Don't Turn back okay well because [4:15] here's the thing first of all I'm 55 and [4:18] I did not even get started in the [4:22] podcast business until I was 54 years [4:24] old and so I personally feel that my [4:29] life and the business that I've built [4:31] and the example that I set every single [4:33] day is evidence that you can decide at [4:36] any age that you are going to Pivot and [4:40] turn in a New Direction and One metaphor [4:43] that has helped me Stephen A Lot in my [4:44] life is I think [4:47] about life as one long road trip and [4:51] that that I know it sounds super cheesy [4:53] but just bear with me for a minute if [4:55] you think about every single year of [4:57] your life as a mile marker [5:00] and the fact that we all start at zero [5:03] we all end at some [5:05] point when you think about your life as [5:08] a road trip and you're the driver that [5:10] means it's about navigating where you go [5:12] next and at any single moment you can [5:16] pull over stop the damn car like if you [5:20] feel lost if you feel turned around if [5:22] you have hit a dead end do not find your [5:25] way by continuing to drive in circles [5:27] stop for a second a that's where you are [5:31] tune back into the navigation system [5:35] that is inside you and you can turn your [5:37] life in a New Direction you do it over [5:40] and over and over again in business you [5:43] have this Natural Curiosity this natural [5:45] drive if your instincts tell you to go [5:48] you point towards it I have [5:52] that but for everybody that's listening [5:56] or watching us who feels like you don't [6:01] ever have that moment where your [6:05] intuition tells you it's that way let me [6:09] give you the secret to how to make your [6:12] next big move and the secret is [6:15] this pay attention to what sucks in your [6:19] life because there are positive [6:22] navigational signals and there are [6:24] negative ones and when it comes to my [6:27] life Stephen you seem to have been able [6:29] to tap into the positive I have a much [6:34] greater like I don't know I'm I'm more [6:37] deeply connected to the negative [ __ ] [6:39] the jealousy [6:41] frustration um feeling anger anytime [6:44] those emotions come up in my body it's [6:48] just a directional signal from deep [6:51] inside of you telling you you're about [6:53] you're you're supposed to Pivot like do [6:54] not head in the same direction do not do [6:56] not keep going the same speed make a [6:58] change [7:00] so I hear you say that we can pull over [7:02] on the side of the road at any moment in [7:03] our life but I guess some people who are [7:05] listening to that will think well I [7:07] can't stop because I've got a mortgage [7:08] to pay I've got bills to pay I've got [7:10] responsibilities I I have no time to [7:12] even think about that and also there's [7:14] this other group of people who maybe [7:15] feel the frustration and the jealousy [7:18] and the the rage that kind of drives you [7:20] and me to some [7:21] degree but for some reason even though [7:24] they know every fiber in their body [7:25] knows that this is not the situation for [7:27] them this is the wrong relationship [7:28] wrong job wrong C wrong friendship group [7:31] they still for some reason just can't [7:33] take that step into [7:35] uncertainty uhhuh which is I think most [7:37] people probably yes I I I almost believe [7:41] that people don't [7:42] have a signal problem I they we all feel [7:46] the same signal but they have a problem [7:48] with acting on the signal because [7:50] correct so I personally believe that we [7:54] are all born the second you come out and [7:57] into this world you are hard hardwired [8:00] with this natural intelligence that is [8:02] your own personal inner compass and that [8:05] it is tuned into what is unique to you [8:09] it is constantly programmed by the [8:11] experiences of your life but it is [8:13] always signaling toward what is uniquely [8:17] aligned for you if you just accept the [8:20] premise that we are energetic human [8:23] beings that we give off energy we [8:26] receive energy we've all had the [8:28] experience where you walk into a like a [8:31] retail store and all of a sudden [8:33] something feels off that is the compass [8:36] I'm talking about signaling to you based [8:39] on your experience based on your DNA [8:41] based on the generational wisdom that is [8:44] passed down through your ancestors that [8:46] there is something there for you to pay [8:47] attention to the problem is not what [8:51] your inner Compass is telling you and [8:56] the problem is that you won't listen to [8:59] it and I can prove it because if you [9:03] have somebody that comes up to you and [9:04] says oh man I've been in this [9:06] relationship and that relationship and [9:08] the other thing and I'm just unlucky and [9:09] love and I can't trust myself and I [9:11] don't da da da da da da da da I always [9:13] say to somebody [9:15] stop it's not that you can't trust [9:19] yourself because your instincts have [9:21] always been right I want you to go back [9:24] through the five or six horrible [9:26] relationships that you just had and I [9:29] want you to look backwards and the [9:31] fastest way to do this is look back [9:32] through your photos and that'll take you [9:34] back on the timeline and that'll remind [9:36] you of all this stuff and I want you to [9:38] look at your face and I want you to just [9:40] be honest with yourself when did you [9:41] know this wasn't working and you will [9:44] always have somebody admit that they [9:47] knew seven years before the divorce they [9:49] knew a year before the breakup they knew [9:51] before they even hooked up with the [9:53] person the first time that this was [9:54] probably not the right thing because it [9:56] felt a little off but it was confusing [9:58] because you know you've got all the [9:59] like Rush of the adrenaline and the [10:01] attraction and all the hormones and all [10:02] that stuff but deep down inside if you [10:04] got really quiet you knew that this was [10:07] not the right decision for you and so [10:10] the issue isn't the accuracy of your [10:13] inner wisdom the issue is your courage [10:17] and following it because following your [10:21] inner wisdom and making decisions that [10:23] are aligned with what you are meant to [10:26] do in your life the kind of people [10:27] you're supposed to be with right now [10:29] the kind of support that you need the [10:31] things that are interesting to you it [10:34] always requires you to do something [10:36] different than what you're doing now the [10:39] problem is if it requires you to do [10:41] something new what's also going to [10:44] happen is you're going to have a fear [10:46] response and we mistake those moments of [10:50] change or those moments where you're [10:52] going to try something new the moments [10:54] of vulnerability the moments where [10:56] you're going to risk a little the [10:57] moments that require courage [11:00] we mistake the very natural response to [11:02] change which is a little moment of [11:04] feeling alarmed with your intuition [11:07] being wrong and so one way that you can [11:11] tell the difference is the feeling of [11:13] the decision if the decision is the [11:16] right decision in terms of a decision [11:19] that is aligned with who you are and [11:22] your soul and your DNA and just this [11:25] deep wisdom inside you even if it's [11:28] scary you will feel a sense of [11:31] expansion you will feel like something [11:34] is growing that there is [11:36] possibility even though you're nervous [11:39] about it even though you're not quite [11:41] sure where you're going to go if the [11:44] decision is wrong when you get quiet and [11:48] you drop in you will feel a sense of [11:51] shrinking you'll feel constrained you'll [11:55] feel a little depleted in your energy [11:58] and we often mistake that kind of [12:01] nervousness that you feel before you [12:04] make a decision to quit your job or a [12:06] decision you know what I'm gonna get Ser [12:08] about serious about my finances I'm [12:09] gonna stop going out to the bar on the [12:11] weekends and and I'm gonna commit to [12:14] listening to this podcast two hours [12:16] every weekend to start learning and [12:18] start mastering skills and to literally [12:20] put these things that I want first now [12:22] on Friday night when your buddies [12:23] calling like Hey we're going down to the [12:24] pub you want to [12:27] come when you are about to say [12:30] no you're going to feel that rise up [12:33] because you've never done this before [12:35] you always go and you know you're going [12:36] to get blowback but if you get really [12:38] quiet and you drop in and you ask [12:40] yourself [12:41] okay if I were to go to the bar tonight [12:44] does that feel like something [12:47] expansive or does that feel like [12:49] something that's shrinking me a little [12:52] bit and you'll know the right answer for [12:54] you and that's a tool that I have used [12:58] over and over and over again in my life [13:01] to know what to do it doesn't answer [13:06] how it doesn't answer when it answers [13:11] what there's a quote I heard many years [13:13] ago I think almost a decade ago which [13:15] stayed with me because I tried to [13:17] understand why sometimes it seems like [13:20] people need a little bit more pain [13:22] before they make a change and the quote [13:23] is change happens when the pain of [13:26] staying the same becomes greater than [13:27] the pain of making a change and I [13:30] sometimes this sounds like a crazy thing [13:31] to say but I sometimes see people in [13:32] certain situations where they're [13:33] debating making a change or getting that [13:35] gym membership or breaking out of a [13:38] cycle that they've has kept them trapped [13:40] in a situation which has made made them [13:41] unhappy and it appears that they just [13:44] need a little bit more pain what you're [13:46] talking about is a fundamental fact and [13:50] that is you cannot change another person [13:54] people only change when they're ready to [13:56] change and if what it requires is more [13:59] pain or hitting a rock bottom or the [14:02] stakes becoming so [14:05] high that somebody sees the cost of [14:09] continuing to self-sabotage or to go on [14:13] the path that they're going [14:15] down that for some people is the only [14:18] moment in time where they [14:23] see that they want things to be [14:26] different and you can't want somebody's [14:31] sobriety or their healing or their [14:34] Financial Freedom more than they do [14:37] because at the very bottom we learn I [14:38] guess we learned two things as you said [14:39] there the cost of continuing but also [14:41] the reward of change has is never [14:43] greater when you're at the very bottom [14:45] of the mountain it's like the cost of [14:47] continuing down here plus also the [14:49] reward of me climbing that mountain are [14:51] at maximum yeah and look you know we're [14:54] having an intellectual conversation and [14:56] you know the fact is it's really hard to [14:58] change yeah if it were easy to develop [15:01] great habits or change your mindset and [15:03] it could happen like that everybody [15:05] would have six-pack abs everybody would [15:07] have four companies like you do [15:08] everybody would have a hit podcast [15:11] everybody would have their dreams come [15:13] true and it is very difficult to change [15:17] because we are hardwired to spot [15:20] patterns that seem similar and to repeat [15:22] them and so I do think it's important to [15:25] say that if you're struggling if you're [15:28] frustrated with yourself if you're at [15:30] that point where you're so sick of [15:34] yourself and your excuses I've been [15:37] there Steven's been there this is a [15:39] normal part of the human experience and [15:43] at some point either the pain is going [15:46] to get big enough or you're going to [15:50] bump into somebody's story somewhere on [15:52] this planet who has been in the position [15:55] that you're in right now facing the [15:57] stuff that you're facing right now and [15:59] there is something about their story at [16:01] this exact moment in time that will [16:04] ignite something in you that is missing [16:06] and what is missing in you right now is [16:08] Hope because when you're stuck and when [16:11] you are on a Down Road spiral whether [16:13] it's just in your own head or it's in [16:15] self-destructive Behavior the thing [16:18] that's missing in your life is hope you [16:20] don't believe right now that anything is [16:22] going to make a difference and so until [16:25] you get to the point where you just hate [16:27] what you're doing so much that it's [16:29] worth [16:30] trying or you have somebody crack open a [16:34] door and just a little light comes in [16:37] and you have this moment where you go [16:39] well what [16:41] if what if this is the time sobriety [16:44] sticks what if I go to therapy and I [16:48] actually do change the way that I think [16:52] what if I could recover from this [16:54] narcissistic abuse that I've you know [16:58] been kind struggling with after that [17:00] relationship or that marriage what if I [17:03] could get out of debt if that person did [17:06] maybe I could do it and without either [17:10] hope or that kind of rock bottom moment [17:14] I don't think you're going to change can [17:16] you tell the difference between someone [17:18] who is likely to change and someone who [17:20] isn't because there must be so many [17:21] people that message you and they present [17:22] a facade as if they have had that [17:24] realization and they're about to change [17:26] Mel I'm about to start that business [17:28] thank you so much for everything you've [17:29] done and you look in their eyes and you [17:30] go and you go I don't believe a word he [17:32] was saying and then I'll tell you it's [17:35] it's that's a that's an energy thing I [17:37] mean you're somebody who invests in a [17:38] lot of people and I would imagine that [17:40] in addition to looking at the business [17:42] model you're actually looking at the [17:44] person and talk is [17:48] cheap like the kind of people that are [17:50] actually going to change will thank you [17:52] for the hope and thank you for a [17:55] specific piece of advice and then they [17:58] are mov moving so fast out that door [18:00] because they realize that change doesn't [18:03] happen overnight it doesn't happen with [18:05] one Insight it is tedious it is painful [18:10] it is lonely because it is a game of [18:13] just moving the ball down the field Inch [18:18] by Inch by Inch it's not glamorous it's [18:22] lonely as you start changing everything [18:25] around you starts changing people around [18:28] you like it just it's not even fun in [18:31] the beginning and so you'd either have [18:34] to have an incredible amount of Hope or [18:36] a ridiculous amount of inspiration and [18:39] delusion or you have to be in so much [18:42] pain that the alternative to continuing [18:45] this pain that you're in is to try [18:48] something different because it's the [18:49] only thing that might be slightly less [18:51] painful than what you're doing you get [18:53] to that point where you know I call it [18:54] the [ __ ] it like this is bad so [ __ ] it [18:58] let's try something else like I you know [19:01] and so I I I really believe that and I I [19:06] think people you can't tell who's going [19:08] to change because it's a it's a long [19:11] game is there anything that breaks your [19:12] heart about what you do for all the [19:15] upsides of it for oh my God yes [19:19] yeah what really breaks my heart is how [19:21] stuck people [19:23] are and that there are things you can do [19:28] do to change your life for the better [19:32] and if you don't have [19:35] hope and you don't have this [19:39] breakthrough where you have for just a [19:41] millisecond this Insight where you go [19:43] well what if things did work [19:46] out if you don't have that moment most [19:50] people stay so stuck in [19:53] resignation and actually that's one of [19:55] the things that really um I'm so curious [19:58] about with you because I like you talk [20:02] to so many people and have so many [20:04] people writing in and um the number of [20:08] people that are living their life at 40 [20:12] or 50 or 60 and they are defined by the [20:17] trauma that happened in their childhood [20:19] and that's not to say that the trauma [20:21] wasn't profound or wasn't impactful and [20:23] having experienced childhood trauma of [20:26] my own that I didn't discover until [20:28] later in life I I I I find it so [20:33] sad that so many people just don't [20:38] know that they're stuck in patterns of [20:41] abuse or patterns of thinking that they [20:44] can change and if you're not aware that [20:48] you're stuck in something there's no way [20:49] you can change it and so it makes me [20:52] extremely sad that there are um so many [20:57] people that are not not aware of how [21:00] much better and how much more present [21:02] and how much more joy they could [21:03] experience in their life is much of that [21:07] identity like the identity the stories [21:10] the stories we tell ourselves about [21:11] oursel sort of circulates around us it [21:14] becomes this instruction manual for [21:15] everything we do believe and think of [21:17] ourselves and that is ultimately like [21:18] the story of Steven Bartlett that I have [21:20] authored based on everything I [21:21] interpreted that happened in my life [21:23] things happen I write a new line into [21:25] myself story about who Steve B is [21:27] because of that and then I use as my [21:28] instruction manual for forward sort of [21:30] facing Behavior I think one of the most [21:32] interesting experts to talk to about [21:34] that topic is I think his first name is [21:35] Paul Dr Paul Ki from Stanford I know his [21:39] his last name is Dr Ki um but I just [21:42] interviewed him for our podcast and his [21:45] work is all on the inner voice and the [21:48] subconscious and that there is [21:51] this narrative that you have that you [21:55] may not even be aware is talking to you [21:58] all the time and when you start to turn [22:01] toward what that self-critic is saying [22:05] you know you're never good enough why'd [22:07] you screw that up and you start to [22:09] examine what it's telling you it would [22:12] be as if I was walking behind you [22:16] Stephen all day long going boy you [22:18] really suck and you blew that and my God [22:20] you're never going to amount to anything [22:21] and you're going to be alone and you're [22:22] going to do this and it's not and and we [22:25] do it to ourselves and so yes your selft [22:29] talk which is probably buried somewhere [22:31] very deep this is not my area of [22:33] expertise in terms of Psychiatry or [22:35] Neuroscience but we just interviewed [22:36] them and it was fascinating is informing [22:41] what you think about yourself and of [22:42] course what you think about yourself [22:44] then drives the things that you do is it [22:46] thought driven or behavior driven is it [22:48] nervous system driven first is it [22:50] subconscious driven first here's what I [22:53] know I know that [22:56] until you make a decision [22:59] that you no longer want to feel how you [23:00] feel or you no longer want to think the [23:03] way that you think or you no longer want [23:05] to have the kind of results or no [23:08] results that you have until you make [23:10] that decision that you know what I know [23:13] I don't feel great I know I doubt myself [23:15] I know I've had a lot of bad things [23:16] happen I know there's a lot that I [23:18] regret but damn it with the time that I [23:20] have left in my [23:22] life I really want to start to enjoy [23:26] myself I want to take better care care [23:28] of myself I want to feel happy you don't [23:31] even have to believe you deserve it yet [23:33] you can just want it you've got to start [23:36] there you've got to start with wanting [23:40] something better for yourself and then I [23:43] personally think the most important [23:44] thing is to start [23:47] acting like the person who has the [23:50] things that you want right now even [23:52] though you don't feel like it and the [23:54] reason why I personally prefer to [23:59] hack this change of going okay I want to [24:04] um like here's here's something that I [24:06] am working on right now so I'm 55 years [24:08] old I'm in the middle of menopause it's [24:11] a complete Nightmare and uh I feel as [24:14] out of control with my body as I did [24:16] when I was pregnant with one of our [24:18] three kids like everything's changing [24:20] it's really confusing to figure out [24:22] what's going on the um I could go on and [24:26] on and on about this as as somebody in [24:28] the middle of it trying to figure out [24:30] what to do around my changing hormones [24:34] and how to get better control of my [24:37] health and so what do I do I feel a [24:38] little discouraged right now I don't [24:40] really know what to do I just know I [24:42] don't like how my body is feeling and [24:44] how it's changing and so I make a [24:47] decision and a commitment to myself that [24:49] I want to feel better I want to [24:51] understand this and so that decision is [24:53] super important because without deciding [24:55] that I want to do something I'm not [24:56] doing anything and then I start to study [25:01] all of the experts and what people have [25:03] to say about this topic of hormone [25:05] balance and gut health and Women's [25:07] Health and how to uh regulate your [25:12] hormones naturally and what to like [25:14] there's just so much information out [25:16] there and then I make a decision okay [25:17] well what are the two or three things [25:19] that I'm going to do and then I start [25:21] doing it and I wake up every day and I [25:24] do those things even if I don't feel [25:26] like it even if my self self talk is [25:28] pretty poor and here's what happens over [25:31] time for me personally is if I see [25:34] myself taking actions consistent with [25:36] somebody who exercises or somebody who [25:38] is taking care of her Hormone Health or [25:40] somebody who uh is not drinking or [25:43] somebody who is writing a book if I see [25:45] myself taking those actions it changes [25:48] the way that I look at myself the action [25:52] first approach is what I personally [25:54] believe in because I think it works [25:56] faster every everybody that hears you [25:58] saying that and everybody who sees [26:00] people be disciplined in that way the [26:03] illusion is that they're just profoundly [26:05] motivated oh my God no no I I think [26:09] motivation is garbage I mean I um and I [26:12] always thought that was funny given that [26:15] I was a motivational speaker for a long [26:18] time and here I think it's garbage and [26:19] the reason why I think motivation is [26:21] garbage is because it's not there when [26:22] you need [26:23] it and I don't rely on [26:29] motivation I do not expect to feel [26:31] motivated I do not expect to feel like [26:34] doing things and I make myself do them [26:39] that does not mean by the way that I [26:40] have great willpower that does not mean [26:43] that I consider myself to be a [26:45] disciplined person that means that I [26:49] understand the [26:51] biology of how most human beings work [26:55] and the biology of how most human beings [26:58] work is that you feel a sensation in [27:01] your body so let's just take an example [27:03] like getting out of bed okay the you set [27:05] the alarm the night before I know you [27:07] don't but most normal human beings set [27:10] the alarm the night before and when the [27:12] alarm goes [27:14] off you're going to get out of bed right [27:16] I mean that's how it's supposed to work [27:18] because when you set the alarm the night [27:20] before you're setting it for a time [27:22] where you're basically supposed to get [27:24] up so you are making a promise to your [27:26] future self in the morning that you're [27:28] going to get out of bed well what [27:30] happens all kinds of things happen you [27:32] go to bed the alarm rings and the first [27:35] thing that you feel is a sensation and [27:37] for me the Sensation that I always feel [27:40] in my body is something that I would [27:42] call I don't know if it's the cortisol I [27:45] I don't know if it's partying I don't [27:47] know if it's menopause I don't know if [27:49] it's the fact that I have a fabulous bed [27:51] and my husband's next to me and I don't [27:53] want to get out of it I don't know if [27:55] it's the fact that it I live in southern [27:57] Vermont and it's free like I don't know [27:59] but the first sensation [28:01] is then perception so sensation [28:05] perception then feeling then thought [28:08] then action that is the biological chain [28:10] of events that happens in a [28:13] nanc and I know that this is what's [28:16] happening so I have the [28:19] feeling I then have the perception [28:22] happen which is I look around it's dark [28:25] Chris is next to me I then have an [28:27] emotion about it overwhelm frustration [28:30] like you know usually something negative [28:33] then I have a thought which is I don't [28:35] want to get out of [28:37] bed and that for years would trigger the [28:40] action I would take and what most of us [28:42] I certainly didn't understand that [28:44] sensation perception feeling or emotion [28:47] thinking and then action is the chain of [28:52] events that is how you're [28:54] hardwired this is how it works body keep [28:57] like this is how it works it wasn't [29:00] until I understood that holy cow if I [29:03] don't reverse the [29:06] chain my sensation my perception my [29:09] emotions about things and my thinking [29:11] all four or five of those things [29:13] actually precede what action I take and [29:16] I'm not in control of what I'm doing my [29:18] emotions and my Sensations and my trauma [29:22] and like all of the stuff that has been [29:25] running on like autopilot forever that [29:28] is controlling who Mel Robbins is and at [29:30] some point if that's working for you [29:33] fantastic if there's an area of your [29:35] life that you're not happy in then you [29:38] got to reverse the order or I guess or [29:42] and you can go to therapy for months and [29:44] months and months and do the work and [29:46] slowly but surely you will change the [29:49] way that you think which also helps but [29:51] I find that understanding that that is [29:53] the chain of events and for those of us [29:56] that have any kind of of childhood [29:59] trauma where sensation is the first [30:01] thing that you feel that then triggers [30:04] that whole pathway or you have any kind [30:06] of anxiety again sensation of the alarm [30:10] that then triggers a whole pathway of [30:12] action and [30:13] reaction this is one of the reasons why [30:16] you feel out of control it's because the [30:18] sensation and the wiring in your body is [30:21] actually triggering this chain reaction [30:23] and you don't even realize it it's why [30:26] avoiding things or freezing has become [30:28] your default response to everything [30:30] because every sensation triggers the [30:32] exact same thing which leads to an [30:34] action of avoidance and the way around [30:36] that is to flip that and start with [30:37] making taking better actions regardless [30:39] there's two ways around it one is to [30:41] work with a licensed therapist who can [30:46] help you do the deeper work [30:49] of understanding yourself and [30:53] understanding your default thinking [30:56] patterns and doing the work to challenge [30:58] those assumptions and change the way [31:01] that you [31:01] think that absolutely works if you will [31:05] commit to the process of doing [31:07] it the second way and you can do these [31:11] together certainly how I did it is to [31:13] look at your behaviors and understand [31:16] that there is this chain of this there [31:18] is this order that happens in your body [31:21] and reverse it take a behavior first [31:24] approach what if if you want to get in [31:26] better shape what is somebody do who is [31:30] in the kind of shape that you want to be [31:32] in ask yourself what the behavior is [31:34] because I'll tell you the reason why [31:36] you're not taking those behaviors is [31:38] because this chain of events in your [31:40] body from Sensation to perception to [31:43] feeling and emotion to thinking is [31:46] constantly telling you I don't feel like [31:48] it I don't want to it's not going to [31:49] work anyway I'm gonna eat that thing [31:51] yeah I'm gonna eat that thing I'll do it [31:53] tomorrow and you can reverse it it's [31:56] funny because everyone [31:58] knows how I well I believe I believe 99% [32:01] of people know how they should behave to [32:04] become the person they want to become [32:05] they know they probably shouldn't have [32:06] that I don't know bowl of ice cream at 2 [32:09] a.m. in the morning right they know that [32:11] they probably should get up in the [32:12] morning and run for 5 kilometers they [32:14] know they probably should check in with [32:15] their friends and family they probably [32:16] etc etc etc um but here's the thing [32:20] you're not making your behavior [32:22] decisions with your brain you're making [32:25] them with the sensation in your body if [32:26] you don't feel like doing it you don't [32:28] do it see before it even gets up here [32:30] you feel it in here and this was the [32:32] thing that was revelatory for me it's [32:35] like oh my God like my emotions drive my [32:38] entire life and that's why I feel out of [32:40] control and that's why I'm frustrated [32:42] with myself and that's why I can talk [32:43] till I'm bleue in the face about what I [32:45] need to do and what I should do and what [32:46] this and what that but when push comes [32:48] to shove if I don't feel like doing it [32:50] or I'm scared or I'm this or I'm that I [32:52] don't do it that means my emotions and [32:56] the sensations in my body and and the [32:58] patterns that have been hardwired for a [33:00] long time and the coping mechanisms that [33:02] just run on autopilot that's what's [33:05] driving you it's not up here so we've [33:08] broken our cycle who has well I don't [33:11] know I I I dude I wake up every I still [33:14] I know all this and this is the other [33:17] like I think is a really important thing [33:19] for you to hear not you Stephen but [33:21] everybody watching and listening to us [33:23] and that is that I I personally feel [33:27] like it's important understand that you [33:28] may never like the things you need to do [33:31] and you can still do [33:33] them like I I I will never like getting [33:37] out of [33:38] bed and I still get out of bed when the [33:40] alarm rings I don't like emptying the [33:43] dishwasher and I still do it I don't [33:45] like exercising I still do it I don't [33:48] like eating healthy a lot of the times I [33:50] still do it I don't [33:52] like taking a breath and centering [33:56] myself [33:58] when I really when I just scream at my [34:02] husband and I still do it because I let [34:07] my [34:08] emotions and my anxiety and my trauma [34:11] responses and my fears run my life for [34:15] far too long and I would rather be in [34:20] the [34:21] daily I don't know if you call it a [34:23] battle or you just call it I'm just in a [34:25] daily dance with myself to to constantly [34:28] come back [34:29] to alignment and peace and showing up as [34:34] the kind of person that I want to be [34:37] rather than how I may feel in the [34:41] moment one of the things I did want to [34:43] speak to you about is about how we know [34:45] what we want and how we set set goals [34:47] again we're we're in that part of the [34:49] year now where everybody's thinking you [34:50] know we've talked a little bit about how [34:52] one changes themselves but then even [34:54] knowing what direction to aim at is a [34:55] whole challenge in and of itself how do [34:57] one know at 30 years old in my [35:00] life what [35:02] real goals I should be aiming at because [35:04] part of the concern I've had is I wonder [35:06] if I'm driven or being dragged and what [35:10] do you think don't know I don't really [35:11] know the difference [ __ ] you know no [35:13] I don't you are the most driven person I [35:17] know why why I don't know I'm gonna ask [35:20] you just give me this part for my [35:23] interview well this is something why why [35:26] are you the most driven person I know [35:27] why are you me yeah um well I think I [35:31] was out running something for a very [35:33] long time sounds like being dragged is [35:35] it I I genuinely have sat here with [35:38] hundreds of people and every single time [35:39] they explain their motivation to me I go [35:41] sounds like you're being dragged by [35:42] shame your father's opinion of you [35:45] insecurity whatever like the AR that's a [35:48] negative way to say it I mean I feel [35:50] like that's why people don't like it [35:53] they sound powerless they sound like [35:55] they're attached to the back of the Lor [35:56] and it's flying down the motorway well [35:58] if you recognize that's what it is you [36:01] suddenly become powerful yeah and you [36:03] can drive yes yeah so for me if I put it [36:08] through the lens of like the bad things [36:10] that happened it would probably be [36:14] um uh just like outrunning like a [36:16] psychiatrist once said to me it's very [36:19] interesting to me that when this you [36:22] know incident happened in the fourth [36:24] grade and this kid climbed on top of you [36:25] while you were sleeping you are in a [36:28] state when you're sleeping where you are [36:31] completely supposedly safe and so I'm [36:36] not sure Mel your nervous system ever [36:38] reset back to a place of feeling safe [36:40] and then the hypervigilance of having [36:42] you know care caregiver who was always [36:45] kind of very erratic with their [36:47] personality also made me feel always on [36:51] the Move always on the Move always on [36:53] the move you know if you're on the move [36:55] nobody can catch you and so slow down if [36:58] you put it in that context becomes [37:00] unsafe [37:02] right however if you look at a lot of [37:05] our experiences growing up most of us [37:08] get a lot of positive attention when we [37:09] achieve and so we become whether you [37:12] want to say driven or dragged it's [37:14] probably just a matter of whether or not [37:17] you're in control of it a lot of us are [37:20] driven by the desire to want to feel [37:23] seen the desire to feel loved the desire [37:26] to get get the accolades which is why so [37:29] many of us feel driven to achieve [37:33] because it's tied into a sense of [37:35] selfworth it's tied into a sense of uh [37:38] being loved being [37:40] seen for me um I think I was probably to [37:45] use your words dragged since I wasn't in [37:48] control of it um but more and more I [37:52] feel profoundly driven I often think [37:54] people need to be dragged to a place [37:57] where they realized that it's failed [37:58] them that something has failed them for [38:00] them to then take stock and decide to [38:02] become a little bit more intentional and [38:04] to take hold of the steering wheel cuz [38:05] in my situation I was 100% dragged to [38:08] thinking that I needed a million pounds [38:09] a six-pack a girlfriend and a range over [38:11] Sport and then upon getting those things [38:13] it was like almost a bit of an [38:14] existential crisis like what the [ __ ] am [38:15] I doing here right what failed me and [38:17] why did I come to this part and then in [38:18] that moment I could really take stock of [38:20] what my own intrinsic drivers were and [38:23] then do things a little bit more [38:24] intentionally um and aligned with [38:27] disassociated from the thought that any [38:30] of these things would validate me at [38:31] some deeper level I think a lot of [38:34] this that we're talking about isn't [38:37] conscious decisions that anybody's [38:39] making that there is so much [38:43] conditioning and programming that [38:45] happens that we are unaware of as we're [38:47] growing up and as we're moving through [38:50] young adulthood that you don't even [38:52] realize how much you avoid stuff or how [38:54] much you're coping by being busy or [38:57] you're coping by drinking too much or [38:59] you're chasing stuff because you feel a [39:02] deep sense of self-loathing and that [39:05] most of the decisions at least this is [39:07] for me were all reactions just again [39:11] like just trying to do the best that I [39:13] can but not really in control of [39:15] anything and [39:17] until I really believe this until you [39:20] can drop into your [39:22] body [39:24] and just calm down your nervous system [39:28] and not be revving that internal engine [39:31] so much but to be able to just I I this [39:34] is not a technical term I feel like I've [39:37] smoothed out my nervous [39:39] system by doing traditional talk therapy [39:43] guided MDMA therapy with my husband um [39:48] EMDR uh all of the behavioral activation [39:52] therapy which is kind of leading with a [39:55] behavior first approach and start acting [39:57] like the person you want to be let them [40:01] let them okay well I was so fascinated [40:05] by this Theory this let them Theory [40:07] which is kind of a behavioral technique [40:09] I guess would you describe it as a [40:11] behavioral Technique No what is it so [40:14] the let them [40:15] theory is based on a simple [40:19] truth the fastest [40:22] way to take control of your life is to [40:27] stop stop controlling everyone around [40:31] you you have no idea how much time and [40:35] energy and [40:37] attention you are [40:39] wasting trying to control other people [40:43] you have no idea how much energy you are [40:46] burning through thinking about worrying [40:49] about obsessing about what other people [40:52] are doing what they're not doing what [40:56] they're feel feeling all of which you [40:59] have zero control [41:01] over and so the let them theory is this [41:05] simple theory that I credit my daughter [41:08] with teaching [41:09] me uh that has created so much peace in [41:14] my life because like every other human [41:18] being on the planet I had no idea how [41:22] many [41:23] opinions how much frustration and [41:26] expectation [41:27] I had about what other people were doing [41:29] or what they should be doing like it's [41:32] just [41:33] unreal how obsessed we all are with [41:36] everybody else and what they should be [41:38] doing and what they're not doing and [41:40] when you start to use the let them [41:43] Theory you will [41:46] notice it's just [41:49] unbelievable how much you need to use it [41:52] there are exceptions I mean I can [41:53] explain a lot about this I'll I'll give [41:56] you the quick story about how I learned [41:57] it because I think it's very helpful so [41:59] it was our son's um Junior Prom so he's [42:02] a 11th grader in the states [42:06] and like most moms you know completely [42:09] obsessed about everything it's also my [42:12] son and this is his first prom and I had [42:14] had daughters so it was a totally [42:16] different circus with our daughters and [42:19] I thought that his would be drama free [42:21] because he's a guy but it actually [42:23] became more dramatic because he doesn't [42:25] say anything and so everything think [42:27] Steven was a last minute scramble right [42:29] like from getting the tux to he needed [42:31] to have these certain Stan Smith Adidas [42:33] sneakers and we had to overnight those [42:35] to the fact that he was just going to go [42:37] with his friends and then all of a [42:38] sudden he asked a date and then she [42:39] wants a butiner she doesn't want a bout [42:41] iner and then we're going to the pre and [42:43] every step of the way I had internal [42:47] opinion why does [42:49] he so we get to the pre-prom photo party [42:53] that's a lot of peas and our daughter [42:55] happened to be uh home from college and [42:59] so she was there for the [43:00] weekend and all of a sudden it starts to [43:04] rain out of nowhere and by rain I mean a [43:07] hail storm it is raining sideways and I [43:11] realize none of these kids have [43:12] umbrellas none of these kids are [43:14] prepared for this and so I turned to our [43:16] son and I'm like Oak where are you guys [43:18] going for dinner and he's like well I [43:20] don't know and I turned towards my [43:22] husband I'm like they don't have plans [43:23] for dinner what do you mean they didn't [43:25] make a reservation for the prom and so I [43:27] start to get all worked up and now all [43:29] the other parents are like wait you [43:30] didn't make do you want me to call the [43:32] in would you guys want us to order [43:33] pizzas and the ramp up is happening and [43:37] I start to jump in and my daughter grabs [43:40] my arm and she says let them just let [43:44] them do what they want and Oak yells [43:47] over and says hey Mom I think we're [43:48] going to go to this uh Taco thing now [43:50] the taco place that they were going to [43:52] Stephen is like the size of this table [43:56] there are 20 kids it is hailing outside [43:59] they are dressed to the nines and I [44:01] could feel that volcano of control [44:04] coming up like you can't go to the taco [44:06] place you're in a tux and you got the [44:07] new sneakers and she her dress is going [44:09] to get ruined and you don't even have an [44:10] umbrella what are you thinking and [44:12] Kendall has my arm she's like let them [44:14] if they want to go to a taco stand in [44:16] the pouring rain and ruin their dress [44:18] let them it's their problem not [44:22] yours and as she said it I started just [44:25] repeating those words even let them let [44:28] them go to the Taco Stand let them let [44:30] him ruin his shoes who [44:32] cares let let him do what he wants to do [44:35] why am I worried about what he's doing [44:37] why am I not worried about where I'm [44:38] going to have dinner and so it was just [44:41] this moment and it immediately kind of [44:45] unhooked me and then from that point [44:49] forward I just noticed a million [44:51] situations sitting at the restaurant [44:53] that night and the waiter is busy with [44:55] other stuff and they're not coming to [44:56] the table how does everybody feel when [44:58] that [44:59] happens let them let them be [45:02] busy let them take care of the other [45:04] table standing in line and people I [45:07] don't know what it is about the world [45:09] today but people cannot stand in lines [45:11] fidgeting and this and that and the [45:13] other thing and the person is letting in [45:15] people from that line and they're not [45:16] letting in people from this line let [45:18] them let [45:20] them and some of the like really [45:23] important topics too like if your kid [45:27] wants to drop out of school you can say [45:30] what you need to say ultimately it's [45:32] their life let them what's going on [45:34] there at the heart of that is that just [45:36] a lowering of one's expectations so that [45:39] going back to the point we said about [45:40] expectations and happiness [45:42] we alleviate the chance of [45:44] disappointment and because we're just [45:47] let we're saying fine Let It Go like [45:50] what is that the very Crux of that on a [45:51] psychological level that's allowing us [45:53] to feel liberated from that stress and [45:54] need for control [45:57] what do you think it [45:58] is I think when we take on other [46:03] people's [46:05] problems um we create [46:09] expectation for them like in the case of [46:11] your son you had an expectation of what [46:13] his night would look like and where his [46:15] trainers and Tuck were going to go and [46:18] that unmet expectation is causing you [46:20] unnecessary suffering control stress [46:22] angst Vig V vigilance and just by saying [46:26] do you know what like I wish well you're [46:28] just cutting the cord of a whole another [46:31] stream of expectation that you [46:32] absolutely do not need you didn't need [46:34] to volunteer to make your yours and look [46:38] how much stress it created yeah and look [46:40] how much agit it created yeah so there's [46:42] so many things going on Stephen and [46:44] first of all I should also say there are [46:46] exceptions first of all you're not just [46:48] going to let your kids do whatever [46:49] they're going to do if you're a parent [46:51] because you're supposed to put the guard [46:53] rails up right but there is so much [46:57] controlling that we do in our lives of [47:00] other people and it is ruining your [47:03] relationships and a great example of a [47:04] way to use this is let's say that you [47:06] see that your friends are going out for [47:07] brunch this weekend they didn't invite [47:09] you happens all the time with my team [47:11] let them yeah let them yeah because [47:14] here's the thing that's really important [47:16] is it's really not about other people [47:18] see energetically you're hooking [47:20] yourself into other people because you [47:22] have an opinion about what they should [47:23] or shouldn't be doing and that opinion [47:25] is usually driven by your in security or [47:27] it's driven by your controlling nature [47:29] or it's driven by your anxiety or it's [47:31] driven by whatever it is that you may [47:33] have but once you get your energetic [47:35] hook into somebody else you've now just [47:37] lost control because you are now trying [47:40] to gain control of anything in your life [47:42] what your friends are doing for brunch [47:44] this weekend by focusing on them when [47:47] you say let them this is what's very [47:49] interesting it's very different than [47:51] saying I'm just going to let go I don't [47:52] give a hoot I don't care I baloney if [47:55] you're feeling a wave of energy about it [47:58] or emotion about it you do care because [48:00] the emotion is evidence that it is [48:03] impacting you and so most people [48:06] understand that you should just let it [48:07] go or you shouldn't care but they don't [48:08] know how when you say let them a couple [48:11] really interesting things happen number [48:13] one you acknowledge what's happening [48:15] which both acknowledges that your [48:16] friends are out to lunch without you and [48:18] it also acknowledges that it bothers you [48:21] and when you say let them you're [48:23] acknowledging the situation and you're [48:25] almost saying I'm above it and I'm [48:28] permitting this because I see it [48:31] happening and then something really [48:33] interesting happens because you're no [48:36] longer all worked up about what they're [48:39] doing you are forced to look back at [48:41] yourself let them if if my friends are [48:44] going out to brunch and they didn't [48:46] invite me and it bothers me that much [48:49] and I'm just going to let them do it [48:52] instead of sitting here stewing about [48:55] it what do I need to take responsibility [48:57] for you're toxic yes probably or I [49:01] didn't I don't ever invite anybody [49:03] out or if I want more experiences with [49:06] my friends I should be the one [49:08] organizing everybody to go out to brunch [49:11] or [49:12] maybe my friends can just go out and I [49:15] don't have to always be included and it [49:17] doesn't have to mean anything and maybe [49:19] I've got work to do with therapy and so [49:22] what happens is as you start to use let [49:24] them to lower your expectations to stop [49:29] focusing on other people and what [49:31] they're doing it forces you to take [49:34] responsibility for what you want in your [49:35] life linked to that was this thing that [49:37] I found which people just loved when you [49:41] said it which was you should stay in [49:42] your peace and stay in your power yes [49:44] and it sounds somewhat correlated to [49:46] that very much so so when you start [49:50] using it you will notice how often you [49:53] get agitated or frustrated by what other [49:58] people are [49:59] doing and it's strangers in a coffee [50:02] shop it's your [50:05] relatives it's like I we were just in a [50:07] situation this uh here here in the [50:10] states for Thanksgiving where we were [50:11] down visiting my parents and they're in [50:14] a place that's small so we had a place [50:16] that we had to rent so that we could all [50:18] kind of be together but it wasn't that [50:20] close and every time it was a moment [50:23] where it was are we going to their house [50:24] we going to our house and [50:27] somebody had an expectation about where [50:30] we should be normally the old Mel would [50:33] get hooked right into that person i' [50:36] just be like let [50:37] him that per the people in your life are [50:40] allowed to have their emotional [50:41] reactions and it's not your [50:43] responsibility to manage their emotional [50:45] reactions part of the reason why we get [50:48] hooked into these toxic Dynamics with [50:49] people because you're part of the [50:51] dynamic somebody does something that [50:53] triggers you you go right in you start [50:56] to change how you show up you start to [50:58] compensate you start to people please or [51:00] you get all mad and angry and next thing [51:01] you know it erupts and it's the same [51:03] thing over and over and over again and [51:06] you wonder why it never changes well [51:07] part of the reason why is that person's [51:09] never going to change you cannot control [51:12] that but you can change the energy [51:15] you're putting into the dynamic when you [51:17] were asked what was the worst advice you [51:18] ever given do you remember what you said [51:20] I do not what is it you said the worst [51:22] advice I was I've ever received is that [51:24] someone else can make you happy oh it's [51:27] so true it's so true money can't make [51:30] you happy someone else can't make you [51:32] happy and it's correlated to what you [51:35] were just saying there in a way it's [51:36] very correlated because a lot of us are [51:41] putting our energy into trying to push [51:44] other people to show up a certain [51:46] way when if you were to pull all that [51:49] energy [51:50] back and conserve it for [51:53] yourself you suddenly start taking [51:56] respons responsibility and you have more [51:57] energy to take the steps and to change [52:00] the way that you think so that you can [52:02] have what you want in your life and [52:03] there are exceptions look you're not [52:04] just going to let somebody get behind [52:06] the wheel of a car if they've been [52:08] drinking so if it's dangerous if it's [52:11] self-destructive it's if it's [52:12] discriminatory you have to step in in my [52:15] opinion and do something but here's the [52:18] rub hold the intervention with your [52:20] friend who is an addict offer to pay for [52:24] the treatment center if you can afford [52:26] to to do so but then you have to let [52:29] them do what they're going to [52:31] do it makes the responsibility of how [52:34] you show up entirely on you which means [52:37] you are now operating based on your [52:39] values and based on what you want in [52:42] your life and based on the kind of [52:44] person that you want to be not because [52:47] you're doing it out of obligation or [52:49] manipulation or that sort of [52:51] transactional nature that we get into [52:54] with people it seems to be both self and [52:57] selfless at the same time in a way I [52:59] don't think it's selfish at all really I [53:01] actually think it's one of the most [53:03] generous things you could [53:05] do how is not controlling other people a [53:09] selfish thing to do I'm not saying I [53:12] don't [53:12] care I'm saying I'm aware that you are a [53:17] independent human being with his own [53:19] feelings and his own life path and his [53:22] own values and [53:24] expectations and when I step in and try [53:27] to fix everything for you or change how [53:29] you feel I actually rob you of both the [53:32] breakdowns that you need I rob you of [53:34] the responsibility that you need to take [53:37] and I don't own the part of the equation [53:41] in every relationship every relationship [53:44] has an energetic exchange I do [53:46] something and now you are going to react [53:50] and are you going to react based on [53:52] what's align for you are you going to [53:54] react as a way to try to [53:56] change how I am taking that hook out [53:59] though feels like it serves you in a [54:01] profound way as well which is the self [54:03] selfish part of the equation doesn't [54:05] feel selfish but over the long term it's [54:07] going to serve you so it's it is a an AC [54:09] of self-preservation or taking care of [54:11] oneself yeah and I also feel like [54:13] there's a healthy dose of curiosity in [54:15] this because it's going to reveal all [54:16] the things in your life that really [54:18] bother you because right now you're [54:20] distracting Yourself by being upset [54:22] about other [54:24] people instead of pulling that energy [54:27] back in and going oh well if it really [54:29] bothers me that my sister-in-law never [54:32] comes to visit me then I clearly care [54:34] about this [54:35] relationship and so do I care about the [54:39] the them be me being right and them [54:41] always coming to me do I care about Tit [54:44] for Tat or do I actually just care about [54:47] building a good relationship with [54:49] somebody this is also extraordinarily [54:51] effective if you're dealing with [54:52] somebody that has any toxic Tendencies [54:55] any narcissistic trait like when you [54:57] look at the research around especially [54:59] narcissism and the fact that people are [55:01] not born that way they're made that way [55:03] and it's highly unlikely that they're [55:05] changing based on the supply that they [55:08] constantly need when you go let them I'm [55:12] going to see what's coming I'm going to [55:15] anticipate what's coming I'm going to [55:18] let them have their tantrum which is [55:20] what typically happens and [55:23] I'm going to go into this wide open I'm [55:26] not going to allow myself to get [55:29] triggered by it because I am saying I [55:31] know who this person is I know what's [55:33] going to happen I've been in this [55:35] Dynamic for years and I'm going to let [55:37] them do what they do and when that [55:39] happens you also kind of pres it's [55:42] almost like a a emotional force field [55:45] that goes up does this apply to Chris [55:46] too oh hell yes I mean I um I'm trying [55:50] to think of um how is Chris we talked [55:52] about him a bit last time um Chris is [55:54] fantastic he's getting a master in [55:56] transpersonal Psychology oh wow and uh [56:01] he I'm really really really proud of him [56:04] he has started the he he's been doing [56:07] men's Retreats uh for six years and um [56:11] why why was there a catalyst yes um he [56:15] came out of his uh restaurant business a [56:20] broken human uh because the venture did [56:24] not succeed and he felt like an abject [56:28] failure and based on you know all the [56:32] messaging that men in particular get [56:34] about providing he felt like he had [56:38] completely failed his wife and his three [56:40] children and all the friends and [56:41] families that had [56:43] invested and as I [56:46] scrambled and did whatever I could to [56:49] start try to keep us afloat when things [56:52] started to take off for me the shadow [56:55] that I cast just made him feel even [56:58] worse and so he was looking for [57:01] something that would allow him to really [57:04] reconnect with himself to connect with [57:07] other men and so he created something [57:09] called Soul degree and um it's been a [57:12] real passion project of his he just does [57:14] two or three Retreats a year he just [57:17] opened up next year's registration and [57:19] sold it out in 24 hours which tells you [57:22] a little bit about the demand and the [57:25] desire for people to have deeper [57:29] experiences and deeper connection and [57:32] you know to kind of circle back on that [57:34] topic about goals if you want to go [57:37] there [57:39] um I think it's very important you know [57:42] every this time of [57:44] year when January 1 rolls around January [57:48] 1 is what's called a temporal landmark [57:51] and a temporal Landmark I I'm not going [57:54] to get the definition right but it is [57:55] this term used for moments of [57:58] significance moments that create a [58:00] before and an after and we've all had [58:03] experiences on birthdays ten 30y was one [58:05] of them yes of course right a before and [58:08] an after the reason why there are more [58:11] people that go to a gym on the first of [58:13] a month is not only because of the uh [58:15] incentive with pricing but it's because [58:17] it's a temporal Landmark quarters in a [58:20] business temporal Landmark but January 1 [58:22] is a really huge temporal landmark [58:26] I think it's very important to do an [58:31] assessment or an audit of where you are [58:34] before you jump into what's next and I [58:36] think this is the piece that everybody [58:38] misses when they sit down and they write [58:42] out a list of goals the most important [58:45] part of setting goals for yourself I [58:49] believe is first understanding where you [58:51] are and there's a simple exercise that [58:54] you can do [58:56] it's sort of like um if you think about [58:59] directions it's mathematically [59:00] impossible to give somebody a set of [59:02] directions unless we know you're [59:03] starting point and where you want to go [59:05] and most people pick their head up and [59:07] go I want to go there without going well [59:08] where am I right now and so just take [59:12] out a blank piece of paper and write out [59:15] all the categories of your life it [59:17] there's no formula for this literally [59:19] you could do 10 different categories you [59:22] could do five you could do relationships [59:24] money my health my happiness [59:27] and just rank them where are you 1 to 10 [59:31] 1 to 5 whatever you want and explain [59:35] why and I think a really good goal is to [59:38] Simply say to [59:40] yourself how do I make this number two [59:43] or three points [59:44] higher that right there changes your [59:48] direction you know where you're starting [59:50] from and you ask yourself well if my [59:54] health is a two what would a five look [59:56] look like and can I work towards that [59:58] and to me that's what goals are goals [60:02] are that sort of point on a map that are [60:06] your next couple steps dreams are [60:08] something else and dreams are just as [60:10] important because dreams [60:13] are that moment where you pick your head [60:16] up and you get really [60:20] quiet and you tune in to what your mind [60:25] body and spirit is telling you kind of [60:27] aim that inner [60:30] Compass out into the distance and you [60:33] ask yourself where do I want to [60:36] go like if you think about five or 10 [60:39] years from now and and the easiest way [60:41] for me to figure out that is who am I [60:45] jealous of that usually shows up a lot [60:48] faster than who am I inspired by because [60:51] jealousy is just blocked desire you [60:54] can't feel jealous [60:56] of somebody unless you [60:59] authentically want something for real [61:03] that you think that they [61:05] have and the jealousy happens because [61:09] you have somewhere in your psyche told [61:12] yourself you can't have [61:14] it and that's why it comes up as [61:16] negative but I want you to consider if [61:18] you were to allow [61:20] yourself at this time of year or right [61:23] now after this podcast to just [61:27] span the world and ask yourself who am I [61:31] either inspired by or who am I jealous [61:34] of give yourself permission to do that [61:38] and then get curious well what is it [61:40] exactly because it might not be the [61:43] fancy cars or the things that you see it [61:46] might be a sense of Peace it might be [61:49] that they seem to have a great uh family [61:53] life it might be that they [61:56] uh have a very vibrant energy to them [61:59] that there's something behind the stuff [62:01] on the surface that really is aligned [62:04] with what is hardwired in you and pay [62:08] attention to that because those dreams [62:10] are there for a reason see I think that [62:12] they are the beacons out in the future [62:15] that are directional [62:18] signals just because you have this dream [62:21] doesn't mean you're going to get it the [62:23] dream's purpose in your life is is to [62:26] get your head out of the sand and to [62:29] look out ahead and to point you in a [62:33] different [62:34] direction dreams dreams and [62:38] goals it's funny because as you were [62:40] saying that I was wondering what your [62:41] dreams and goals must be and it made me [62:43] think of this comment that I saw on our [62:47] last conversation last time you came on [62:48] the podcast it said dear Mel you've [62:52] touched me I've had a similar molest [62:56] experience I came out after the [62:59] experience and I told my parents about [63:04] it but I didn't tell them for many many [63:08] many years because I thought I would be [63:11] blamed for it because that is how my [63:14] mother always treated me I can finally [63:18] totally relate to somebody in you I've [63:20] been living in fear all of my 71 years [63:25] of life [63:26] fear Capital words controls me to this [63:30] day now thanks to you I have the answers [63:34] I can now live the rest of my days [63:36] better I've spent my life trying to fix [63:39] me with you I have directions to follow [63:42] now so thank you [63:45] Mel thank you for sharing that [63:49] um I um you know one of the things that [63:53] is profound about the let them Theory [63:56] is that if you're in a situation where [63:58] you're terrified of somebody's [64:01] reaction just tell yourself let [64:04] them let them have the reaction that [64:07] they're going to [64:08] have because if you allow the space for [64:13] your parents in that situation to have a [64:16] really horrible reaction you've [64:19] anticipated that it's coming and you've [64:22] also allowed them to be [64:24] human and you to empower yourself to [64:28] then do what you need to do for [64:32] yourself which is to say it out [64:35] loud and to tell the truth about what [64:39] happened to you because it's not about [64:43] your parents reaction it's about you [64:46] finding the courage and making the [64:47] decision and taking the action to say [64:52] this [64:52] happened and that's the beginning of of [64:56] your life moving in a completely [64:58] different [64:59] direction because you know [65:03] fear is something that runs people's [65:07] lives it makes you avoid it makes you [65:09] shrink it makes you live in silence it [65:11] makes you deny what you're [65:13] feeling and too often the fear that we [65:17] feel the most is we're afraid of what [65:19] other people are going to say we're [65:20] afraid of other people's reactions let [65:22] them have it let them be human let them [65:26] do and I'm not saying let people treat [65:29] you [65:31] poorly what I'm here to tell you is that [65:34] when you take responsibility for your [65:38] truth and you take responsibility for [65:40] expressing it and then you take [65:43] responsibility for your [65:45] boundaries and you take responsibility [65:48] for your [65:49] healing you do have the possibility of [65:55] living the rest of your life in a [65:58] completely different [66:00] way as you know whoop are a sponsor of [66:03] this podcast which came about from me [66:04] being the biggest fan of their product [66:06] it's been an absolute game changer for [66:07] my sleep for my recovery and for my [66:09] overall well-being whoop is a wearable [66:11] device this thing on my wrist right here [66:13] if you're watching me that not only [66:14] tracks your health 247 but also guides [66:17] you to improve 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you if you join the waiting list which [67:04] is in the description below you will get [67:06] sent access to buy these conversation [67:09] cards 1 hour before anybody else they're [67:13] in limited Supply so if you really do [67:15] want to get your hands on them please do [67:17] add your name to the waiting list in the [67:18] description below and you can find that [67:20] waiting list at theconversation [67:22] cards.com but I'll also include it in [67:25] the description below wherever you're [67:26] listening to this episode when did you [67:28] receive your diagnosis of ADHD uh I was [67:32] I think like [67:33] 47 how did it change things well it was [67:39] amazing I I absolutely amazing you were [67:41] recently diagnosed right yeah um so it [67:47] changed everything because um I [67:50] finally had an explanation [67:55] for something about the way that my mind [67:58] worked and the way that I felt that made [68:02] me for 47 years feel like there was [68:08] something defective about me and I [68:12] couldn't figure out what it [68:14] was and I was diagnosed the way that [68:17] most women that are adults are diagnosed [68:20] and it goes a little something like this [68:23] you have a kid so my husband and I have [68:25] three children and um our youngest [68:29] Oakley was this just amazing kind of [68:32] casseroll of things and one of the [68:36] things that he was is that he had a lot [68:39] of trouble in school he just we didn't [68:42] even know that he couldn't read I mean [68:44] talk about being a parent that asleep at [68:46] the wheel we didn't find out that he [68:48] couldn't read Stephen until he was in [68:50] the fourth grade and the reason why we [68:53] didn't know and the school didn't know [68:55] is is because he had so [68:58] overcompensated in the classroom by [69:00] being so verbal first kid with the hand [69:03] up blah blah blah blah blah like talking [69:04] talking talking that [69:06] nobody knew that he was having trouble [69:11] and all of a sudden the math problems [69:13] get harder because they become word [69:15] problems all of a sudden reading [69:17] comprehension and you know not not to [69:19] mention the fact that he also had dis [69:20] graphia which basically means that it [69:23] looked like he was writing with his feet [69:24] I mean his handwriting was so bad and I [69:27] was befuddled by this because he could [69:30] literally sit in front of the TV and [69:33] play video games for hours and have [69:35] hyperfocus and all this dexterity and so [69:38] I just thought oh he's acting out he [69:39] can't stand school so we have this great [69:42] teacher in the public school system who [69:44] says you really need to get him tested [69:46] and I wouldn't test him in the school [69:48] and luckily we were at a point where we [69:50] could afford to go get I think it's [69:52] called a uh psychographic [69:55] something something it's like a long [69:57] word and sure enough the testing comes [70:00] back and the uh PhD neuros pych guy is [70:04] like yeah well he has profound dyslexia [70:06] he has profound disg graphia he has [70:09] executive functioning issues which is [70:11] basically the conductor or the secretary [70:13] in the brain sort of helping you stay [70:16] organized and a couple steps ahead he [70:18] has [70:19] ADHD and as I'm reading through this [70:21] report I'm sitting in the pediatrician's [70:23] office Stephen and I'm looking at this [70:26] report and I'm reading it and I look up [70:28] at his pediatrician who I had become [70:31] good friends with because we had three [70:33] kids in the practice at this point I'm [70:34] like [70:37] Mark do you [70:39] think maybe have I I have [70:42] ADHD and he puts his paper down Stephen [70:46] and he goes do I think you have ADHD of [70:49] course you have ADHD you are the most [70:51] ADHD person parent in my entire practice [70:55] I'm like what do you mean he's like Mel [70:57] you're brilliant and yet you never do [71:00] what you say you're going to do you will [71:02] leave here and tell me you're going to [71:03] call you never call back your kids go [71:05] years without coming in because you miss [71:07] all their Wellness appointments you [71:08] scramble every single year for the uh [71:12] physicals that your kids need and you [71:13] beg us to it is Clockwork of course you [71:15] have ADHD and I look at him Stephen and [71:18] I'm like why didn't you tell me he said [71:20] because I'm not your doctor and so I [71:22] went and I got the testing Stephen and [71:25] and turns out yes ADHD dyslexia same [71:29] profile as my son [71:32] and what was interesting about getting [71:35] the diagnosis because I didn't [71:37] understand what ADHD was I always [71:40] thought that ADHD is that you can't pay [71:43] attention same that's not what it is at [71:46] all and so [71:48] learning about what it is and learning [71:52] that boys and girls present completely [71:55] differently so there's an entire [71:57] generation of women I don't know if you [71:58] know this but there's an entire [72:00] generation of women called The Lost [72:02] Generation and what happened is when [72:04] they were studying ADHD I guess in the [72:07] late 60s and early 70s they only looked [72:09] at boys and so boys tend to show the [72:15] symptoms of ADHD around the age of seven [72:18] and it typically is around um the [72:22] hyperactivity or the inability to kind [72:25] of like focus and and control their body [72:28] movements girls on the other hand don't [72:31] sh start displaying symptoms until about [72:33] the age of 12 and the symptoms are very [72:35] different girls become um inattentive [72:38] but in a kind of daydreaming fashion [72:41] they become a little bit more [72:43] disorganized and they aim all of this [72:47] back at themselves and so as you become [72:50] kind of more Inward and you are [72:53] inattentive and you're disorg Oran and [72:55] you start to wonder what's wrong with [72:57] you and now plus the average age of [72:59] girls for puberty is right around then [73:01] too so all this other stuff is starting [73:02] to happen and hormones are starting to [73:04] change if you [73:06] don't get properly diagnosed and treated [73:10] and by treated I mean the whole array of [73:13] things that you can do whether you're [73:15] talking about medication or just the [73:17] different habits that you can have or [73:19] systems that you can develop to support [73:20] yourself if you don't get properly [73:25] tested and you don't address it do you [73:28] know what the number one thing that [73:30] happens you develop anxiety oh really [73:33] well of course because you're sitting in [73:34] a classroom and you can't get yourself [73:37] to focus and you're disorganized and you [73:41] start to feel this sense of alarm that [73:44] you're going to walk into a test and [73:45] you're not going to be able to do it [73:47] that you're going to yet again open your [73:50] locker and the stuff's going to fly [73:52] everywhere that yet again you're going [73:54] to forget your friend's birthday or [73:55] you're going to forget to do this thing [73:57] and so all of this anxiety Rises to the [74:00] surface so get this so they call us The [74:04] Lost Generation of women because what do [74:07] you suppose if we were not diagnosed so [74:10] I'm 55 if I'm in elementary school in [74:13] the late 70s and the you know and and [74:16] they've only studied boys and so none of [74:19] this is on anybody's radar screen you [74:22] now have a generation of women who are [74:24] developing anxiety at Big levels in high [74:27] school and college I was textbook and so [74:30] we get treated for the [74:32] anxiety and medicated for it without [74:35] addressing the underlying issue all [74:38] along which was undiagnosed ADHD so for [74:42] me it was [74:44] absolutely lifechanging and it was [74:47] life-changing to understand that ADHD is [74:51] not about your inability to focus it is [74:55] about the fact and I'm sure you probably [74:57] have dug into this and you know this but [74:59] for you know anybody anytime I talk [75:01] about this the number of women that are [75:03] going to write in the number of dads [75:05] that will write in about their daughters [75:07] the number of people that say oh my God [75:09] I had anxiety in high school too and now [75:10] now I've been uh diagnosed with ADHD and [75:13] it was because of my kid going through [75:15] this and this is exactly my story it is [75:18] happening over and over and over again [75:20] and so here's what really also helped me [75:23] Stephen and it's this [75:26] understanding that focus and the ability [75:30] to focus in appropriate ways requires [75:34] two different neural networks in your [75:39] brain and you can think about it this [75:41] way if you think about you know the [75:43] prefrontal cortex this kind of part of [75:45] your brain really has the job of almost [75:48] being like a conductor of an orchestra [75:51] this is the best um example that I've [75:54] heard in terms of what's happening if [75:56] you have [75:57] ADHD and what's happening is if you [76:00] think about an orchestra and and the [76:03] orchestra's warming up right it's [76:06] like and the drums are Ting ding ding [76:09] ding ding and people are shuffling in [76:11] their seats we know that sound right and [76:13] then all of a sudden the conductor's [76:15] like [76:17] TI and everybody silent [76:20] right in order to conduct an orchestra [76:23] you got to be able to do two things at [76:24] once you got to be able [76:28] to lower the volume on the strings over [76:31] here and then you got to be able [76:34] to [76:36] amplify the focus on the percussion over [76:40] here and what happens when this part of [76:43] your brain is not switching properly is [76:46] you are like Mel Robbins in college and [76:50] I would be with my books and I would be [76:54] in the Stacks at Baker Library at [76:56] Dartmouth College and I'd be there [76:58] because I'm going to study [77:01] right and my Orchestra conductor cannot [77:05] shush anything so the second I sit down [77:09] if I'm G to study I have to do two [77:11] things I have to be able to quiet all [77:13] the ambient noise I have to be able to [77:16] quiet all the signaling in my body so [77:19] that what I can amplify my attention on [77:23] what I'm reading when this part of your [77:25] brain doesn't work what ends up [77:27] happening or at least this is the way [77:29] that it's been explained to me is that I [77:31] can't focus on my books because I'm [77:35] paying attention to the fact that my [77:36] stomach is grumbling and I hear people [77:38] walking and then I'm looking around and [77:40] then I'm paying attention to the fact [77:41] that I have to go to the bathroom so [77:43] then I'm up then I'm walking around and [77:46] that is how I lived for a very very long [77:49] time do you think that's a survival [77:50] response what do you mean becoming very [77:53] aware of your [77:56] surroundings you know what I mean has [77:59] anyone ever researched whether or not [78:00] there is a link between trauma and ADHD [78:03] yes and Gabel mate I believe is the is [78:06] the one that's made a pretty pretty [78:07] compelling case to me that ADHD appears [78:10] to be linked to Childhood trauma which [78:13] is you I'm going to butcher this so [78:16] please forgive me everybody the case he [78:18] made to me was that when you have a [78:21] chaotic or traumatic or stressful [78:23] childhood as a survival mechanism you [78:26] learn to tune out and that's that's [78:28] that's protective so if your parents are [78:31] always screaming in the house for [78:32] example it makes a lot of sense for you [78:34] to learn to tune out in that moment but [78:36] also to know when to tune in obsessively [78:38] and maybe that's the hyperfocus bit the [78:40] bit that he really stressed to me was [78:41] that kids that go through some kind of [78:45] interpretation of a stressful [78:46] environment at a young age or a [78:47] traumatic environment are more likely to [78:48] have ADHD because they've learned to [78:51] tune out in order to sort of conserve [78:53] and survive it's like my rough [78:55] understanding of it well it makes a lot [78:57] of sense right because um if you also [79:01] have a really chaotic environment it [79:04] might not be safe for you to tune out [79:06] yeah and so you've got to stay in that [79:08] hypervigilant mode which I think would [79:10] fry the conductor in your brain it does [79:12] yeah because you're both paying [79:13] attention to the the survival signals in [79:15] your body at the same time as the chaos [79:17] in your house and even if you're tuning [79:20] out the parents who are screaming at [79:21] each other you are still tuned into it [79:23] because heaven forbid B it escalates [79:26] yeah you got to know yeah and so I think [79:28] it makes perfect sense honestly but it [79:30] was just a GameChanger and it was a [79:33] GameChanger to know kind of the [79:35] distinction between boys and girls and [79:38] the link with anxiety uh in terms of it [79:41] developing uh in a pronounced way for [79:44] those of us that have had this [79:46] experience of having this as a diagnosis [79:50] learning it late in life and then [79:52] tracing it back and going oh my god I've [79:54] been treated for anxiety for all these [79:56] years when the real issue was this [79:59] attention issue and if you take gabber [80:02] mate's Theory which I think is probably [80:04] accurate dial it back even further and [80:07] it's probably some form of childhood [80:08] trauma that put a kink in the [80:11] wires menopause you talked about [80:13] menopause earlier yes do we have to I [80:15] mean Jesus okay why what do you want to [80:19] know wh why did you respond like that [80:22] you know because it's um um it's really [80:28] confounding and it's confounding because [80:31] there's I don't even know if that's the [80:33] right word it's overwhelming everybody [80:35] my age is talking about it because what [80:37] happens is you start to lose control of [80:41] your body and um you're going through [80:46] all of these changes that you feel like [80:49] you are not in control of and so you [80:53] know I realize I look like a very lean [80:55] person and so the truth is that I am a [80:58] very lean person I have not changed my [81:01] habits in I don't know eight years I [81:03] have very very healthy habits because I [81:05] force myself to do things I don't feel [81:07] like doing [81:09] um and yet they're not working and my [81:15] body is expanding and brain fog is [81:19] increasing and I am like a furnace to [81:23] sleep next to at night [81:25] and um all of which is a function of the [81:31] changing levels of estrogen in my body [81:35] and what's very challenging about um [81:39] dealing with kind of hormone changes is [81:41] that there's so much conflicting advice [81:43] out there and to truly know what's going [81:46] on in your body you have to be drawing [81:49] blood you have to be looking at what's [81:51] going on in the inside that is extremely [81:54] expensive for most people it also is a [81:57] big maintenance issue it's a gigantic [81:59] pain in the ass and it doesn't feel like [82:02] anybody really has a good handle on this [82:06] and I think as a woman it's very [82:08] frustrating to know that women were not [82:10] even involved in uh medical research [82:13] until the late 80s and it's even more [82:16] frustrating to know and look I could be [82:19] wrong on this but we had an expert on [82:20] our show explain that they only use [82:22] postmenopausal women because they don't [82:24] want women women's hormones to throw off [82:27] the results of the testing that they're [82:30] going through with medication and so it [82:33] just feels like a massive gray area for [82:36] more than half the population our entire [82:39] network from the brain through the [82:41] entire body is running on estrogen [82:43] there's new research around like just [82:45] stopping menopause altogether because [82:50] women's uh Health out women's um I'm I'm [82:54] you know I'm not a medical expert so I'm [82:56] trying to learn all this stuff to [82:59] educate myself do I take a pill do I put [83:01] a cream on do I have this little patch [83:03] do I sleep on a pad that makes me cold [83:04] so my husband won't like complain that [83:06] I'm sweating like through the sheets do [83:08] I do on bamboo like it is [83:11] so overwhelming and then and you know [83:14] and I even feel my cheeks getting hot so [83:16] it could be a hot flash coming on I [83:18] don't know all I know is I'm drinking my [83:21] water and I'm taking my progesterone and [83:22] I'm doing my estrogen patch and now I've [83:24] tried the blood draws and everybody has [83:26] a different opinion is it your gut [83:28] health is it your estrogen health I [83:30] don't know I just know my body is [83:32] changing and some days I feel like a uh [83:35] a a a p a a mayor that's being put out [83:38] to pasture and part of the issue is the [83:42] lifespan we have if you think about it [83:46] like our our life expectancy has way [83:50] eclipsed the fertility cycle of women [83:55] and so we now for most of us will have [83:59] another 30 or 40 years if we take care [84:02] of ourselves and that's a long time to [84:07] live a very vibrant and amazing life [84:10] which I believe that we can and to have [84:14] a body where your entire system needs [84:18] estrogen and yet your body is starting [84:20] to lose it and so that's part of the [84:22] reason why there's so much interesting [84:25] research going on around whether or not [84:28] the answer is to just keep us [84:31] menstrating so that we're naturally [84:34] producing this in our bodies so [84:37] interesting it's funny because I'm I'm [84:39] not going to go through menopause myself [84:42] well that would be interesting but [84:43] obviously you'll do manopause though [84:45] because you'll probably have a drop in [84:47] testosterone uhuh but but on the subject [84:49] of menopause I'm going to be surrounded [84:52] by women that are going to go through it [84:55] and blo and all the bees so get ready [84:58] and I want I want to make sure I [84:59] understand that's why I'm so curious [85:00] about it but it's I crazy thing is I [85:02] only learned about it like a year ago on [85:04] this book wait you didn't know no about [85:06] menopause no well that that's true [85:09] you're a 30-year-old man why or 31 why [85:11] would you know about menopause I learned [85:13] from interviewing people on this podcast [85:15] and i' I became so fascinated by it [85:16] because people aren't talking about it [85:18] enough or at least they haven't [85:19] historically the conversation has has in [85:22] my view has risen in cultural [85:25] um popularity over the last couple of [85:27] years but Well here here's my take on it [85:30] stepen thank God it has yeah because if [85:33] you look at the fact that women were not [85:35] included in you know the medical [85:37] research until the late [85:39] 80s and you realize that more than half [85:42] the [85:43] population are women and that menopause [85:48] and women's hormone Health was a chapter [85:52] in the OBG [85:56] uh [85:57] schooling and it is an enormous part of [86:02] how a woman woman's body function like [86:05] if we pull away all the skin and what [86:07] you see is all the wiring the fuel that [86:11] is really circulating through a woman's [86:14] body is estrogen and other hormones this [86:17] is again I am not a medical expert I am [86:20] just a woman who is trying desperately [86:23] to figure out how to make sense of an [86:27] extraordinarily important topic that [86:30] until recent years has not been looked [86:33] at with the scientific rigor that it [86:35] deserves and demands and that women [86:39] around the planet need and it has just [86:42] been kind of like an afterthought that [86:44] okay you're going to take some hormones [86:46] and then that'll be that you'll be [86:47] through it I mean most of the advice [86:48] that I got when I started to get the [86:50] thickening and the hot flashes started [86:52] to come and it's too much information [86:54] for me to talk about all the other uh [86:57] symptoms that you may feel when you go [86:59] through menopause is basically like well [87:02] you know it'll take about 10 years and [87:04] then you'll bounce back that is not [87:07] acceptable when it comes to how we can [87:11] care for and [87:14] Empower more than half of the people on [87:17] this planet and there it is exciting [87:20] though because I do believe that [87:22] somebody will figure this out out soon [87:24] that there will be more research there [87:27] already are companies popping up all [87:29] over the place that are doing really [87:32] exciting stuff it's just kind of one of [87:34] these issues that's really confusing [87:36] because if you Google it or you listen [87:39] to an expert on the topic it really does [87:43] depend on your personal history because [87:45] if you've had any form of breast cancer [87:48] or or history of that in your family it [87:51] can be very dangerous or [87:53] life-threatening for you to hormones and [87:55] so again I'm I I have a lot to say about [87:58] this because I'm in the middle of it but [88:00] I don't know a lot and I think that's [88:01] the thing that's [88:03] scary my last question before I go to [88:05] the book the hardest question that [88:07] people ask me and I've struggled with it [88:09] for couple of years and I still struggle [88:10] with it now to be honest is they ask me [88:12] what's driving me and I always I I pause [88:15] because I don't want to give a [ __ ] [88:16] answer like what I do I really know at [88:19] the core of me what's driving me you [88:20] talked about a lot of it being [88:21] subconscious I don't really know and the [88:23] other thing that people people ask me is [88:24] what's your goal and because I think [88:26] I've got this sort [88:28] of predisposition now or this [88:31] perspective that I don't know I don't [88:33] know if there is a goal I I know that [88:36] you know there's this state of being [88:37] that I want to arrive in every day this [88:39] feeling I want but is there a goal [88:40] because I've completed loads of my goals [88:42] and it wasn't [88:44] that so so I'm cautious about setting [88:47] any goals so I'm going to throw the [88:47] question at you what is your thanks a [88:50] lot what is your goal is there a goal is [88:54] that a [ __ ] [88:56] question um because I've read that quote [88:58] to you that's I mean someone can't have [89:00] more profound impact on another person's [89:01] life than that so I'm like you know you [89:05] did it you have the gazillion followers [89:07] you've climbed the mountain you've got [89:10] the car the money savings the kids are [89:12] good relationships in a great [89:15] place uh my goal is to enjoy it as much [89:20] as I can it's a good goal another goal [89:24] is to um to have a great relationship [89:28] with my kids and my [89:35] husband yeah I think um [89:38] having it's very fulfilling to have [89:44] um our adult [89:46] kids uh be such good friends I really [89:51] love [89:53] that why does that make you emotional um [89:57] because they're cool I mean I just you [90:00] know why it makes me emotional is [90:01] because [90:04] um I know they're choosing to spend time [90:07] with us and um I saw this thing on um I [90:13] it's it's floating around I'm sure you [90:14] saw it too about how um the amount of [90:17] time you spent with your parents just [90:18] declines over time it like literally [90:20] goes off a cliff and so I um just love [90:25] the time that I have with them because I [90:26] think they're all really interesting and [90:28] unique and [90:30] um I love that they choose to spend a [90:34] lot of time with [90:35] this we have a closing tradition on this [90:37] podcast where the last guest leaves a [90:38] question for the next guest not knowing [90:40] who they're GNA leave it for this is it [90:42] about menopause can you imagine well it [90:45] might be it depend on your [90:46] answer the question left for you I love [90:48] how these are always the most difficult [90:49] questions my questions are a walk in the [90:51] park um what is the most difficult [90:53] challenge that you have [90:57] overcome i' I'd say [91:00] um there's some I I have a bazillion [91:03] answers to this like I wanted to say [91:05] getting out of bed every morning when I [91:07] don't feel like it because that ability [91:12] to feel resistance in your body and get [91:16] out of bed and face the day is [91:20] the skill that you need for any change [91:25] and I over and I I face it every day and [91:28] every way I think the most difficult if [91:32] you were to measure it in [91:33] time challenge would [91:36] be rewiring my nervous system if that's [91:39] even possible technically that's [91:41] probably not a thing that you do but to [91:46] deprogram all of the [91:48] crap that was there and you can't get [91:52] rid of it entirely but to make the [91:56] Pathways in my body that used to be [91:58] driven by either trauma or fear or [92:02] anxiety that were so hardwired to make [92:05] those not be the default and [92:09] to gain a level of [92:12] self-awareness and have the tools to be [92:14] able to catch myself and and be like Oh [92:17] not going to be the grizzly bear right [92:19] now and focusing on being action [92:21] orientated as you said yeah and just [92:24] prioritizing [92:26] peace well thank you thank you so much [92:29] for your um for your Brilliance oh I [92:33] could I could talk about so many [92:34] specific things that I think are so [92:36] exceptional about you but that we' [92:38] probably be here for another two hours [92:39] or so so um thank you so much because [92:42] you you know you [92:43] um you have a wonderfully unique talent [92:48] wisdom ability to dissect understand [92:52] reflect Express [92:54] be authentic vulnerable in a way that [92:57] the world so desperately needs it needs [93:00] someone with that talent for [93:03] understanding introspection processing [93:05] communication and that's what you have [93:07] and I don't I it's hard to think of many [93:10] examples where I've seen that like you [93:11] are very much oneof a kind and it's a [93:14] and it's a responsibility unfortunately [93:16] it's a great responsibility I don't feel [93:18] that way I feel like it's so much easier [93:20] than faking it dude I look at you and I [93:22] go you've got so much talent that it's a [93:24] responsibility because you can impact [93:26] 71y old you know lady here to Pivot her [93:30] life I give that's a responsibility and [93:31] do you know what I think is a great [93:32] thing in life meaningful [93:35] responsibilities I think we're all [93:37] trying to find it and I think that's [93:38] what you have the gift of so um you know [93:41] I'm always going to be your number one [93:43] fan and gosh I actually just think [93:45] you're at the beginning of your journey [93:46] so I'm excited to see all of it play out [93:49] thank you Mom thank you can I say one [93:51] more thing no I'm joking of course [93:56] that comment by what was her name I [93:59] don't think she left her name she didn't [94:00] okay so that comment name that that [94:03] comment makes [94:07] me one of the reasons [94:11] why I think I'm so driven is [94:17] because I know how many [94:20] people go through life day-to-day [94:22] feeling in visible and stuck and not [94:29] seen and so if I can [94:34] share any small thing that I've done [94:37] that has made a difference or any [94:41] detail about a challenge that I'm facing [94:44] even if it's [94:46] complaining about menopause and hot [94:49] flashes and [94:51] bloating if that means one human being [94:55] out there somewhere across the world [94:59] goes I'm not the only [95:01] one that's why I do what I do because [95:06] I lived inside a body and a brain for [95:10] too many decades going I think I'm the [95:13] only one who feels this way I think [95:15] there's something wrong with me I don't [95:17] think I'm ever going to be able to fix [95:20] this and it's simply not true you're not [95:23] the only one there's somebody on this [95:24] planet going through it and has changed [95:27] your life the better and if they've done [95:29] it so can [95:31] you thank you you're [95:35] [Music] [95:36] welcome as you'll know this podcast is [95:38] sponsored by [95:41] H and I have to say it's moments like [95:44] this in my life where I'm extremely busy [95:46] and I'm flying all over the place and [95:47] I'm recording TV shows and I'm recording [95:49] shows in America and here in the UK that [95:52] hu is a [95:54] necessity in my life I'm someone that [95:56] regardless of external circumstances or [95:58] professional demands wants to stay [96:01] healthy and nutritionally complete and [96:02] that's exactly where heel fits in my [96:04] life so if you're looking to try heel [96:05] for the first time and to get into it [96:07] and to join the huigan family I'd highly [96:09] recommend you try this [96:11] out do you need a podcast to listen to [96:14] next we've discovered that people who [96:15] liked this episode also tend to [96:18] absolutely love another recent episode [96:20] we've done so I've linked that episode [96:22] in the description below I know you'll [96:24] enjoy it [96:30] [Music]