Casey Neistat Takes Blame for $36 Million CNN Startup Failure

Casey Neistat为其3600万美元CNN初创公司的失败承担责任 这位YouTube创作者认为早年的贫困与缺乏退路迫使他长期坚持，同时也将科技公司Beme的倒闭归咎于自己在企业管理上的傲慢。 在这场坦诚的访谈中，电影制作人兼YouTube先驱Casey Neistat回顾了他的人生历程：从缺乏管教的混乱童年、少年为人父，一路走到爆红网络并收获数百万订阅者。他深入剖析了自己关于耐心、高度行动力以及失败之馈赠的核心理念，回顾了早期的艰辛打拼、Beme的推出及以3600万美元被收购的经过，以及他最终在CNN感到的职业倦怠。Neistat还谈及骤然成名的阴暗面，解释了他举家迁往洛杉矶以逃离公众关注压力、重新过上更有目标感且在创作上更充实生活的原因。 Casey Neistat在16岁成为年轻父亲后依靠政府救济券生活，这种一无所有且毫无退路的处境，迫使他形成了生存驱动的极致工作伦理与抗逆力。 (14:09) Casey直言缺乏实操牺牲的励志金句毫无意义，人们对失败的恐惧本质上源自对外界评判的焦虑，而漫长、不体面且长达数年的耐心才是跨越失败的关键。 (28:42) 9/11袭击摧毁住所且身无分文时，Casey仍拒绝接受父亲让他回家的提议；心理学研究与他的经历均表明，缺乏退路（Plan B）反而会激发无可替代的专注度与生存动力。 (33:25) 面对YouTube生态中盲目模仿顶流的“MrBeast化”倾向，Casey指出视频创作应是挖掘自我真实与个人表达的载体，单纯追逐播放量只会陷入空虚的恶性循环。 (45:58)

Casey Neistat argues that enduring creative accomplishment and fulfillment stem from an obsessive commitment to the daily process and authenticity, rather than chasing algorithmic metrics, external validation, or corporate scale. Reflecting on his trajectory from an impoverished teen father to a YouTube pioneer, Neistat contends that operating without a safety net enforced an extreme personal agency that corporate structures and view-chasing platforms actively dilute. High Agency and Survival Without Plan B Neistat attributes his persistence not to romanticized inspiration, but to an absolute absence of alternatives. Becoming a father at 16 while scrubbing kitchen pots for $7.25 to $8.00 an hour, he approached life with youthful naivety and what host Steven Bartlett describes as a "Plan A mindset." Moving to New York City at 19 with only an iMac, clothes, and a bicycle, Neistat financed his start with an $1,800 borrowed sublet, slept on a friend's couch until 9/11 displaced him, and bribed a halfway-house guard with $100 and cigarettes to secure a $450-a-month room. Rather than looking to external authorities, Neistat developed a high-agency ethos—fixing his own crashed Volvo with $150 replacement parts rather than hiring a mechanic. He compares his survival drive to sprinting from starving wolves, arguing that unglamorous patience—enduring public indifference and zero views for up to 20 years—is the only bridge to real creative longevity. The 15-Year Runway to Daily Vlogging (61:45) Before his channel exploded from 280,000 to 10 million subscribers in 18 months, Neistat had labored through 15 years in traditional media and video. He sold an eight-episode series to HBO for $2 million in 2008, screened two indie films at Cannes, directed Nike commercials, and won an Independent Spirit Award. Yet these achievements did not guarantee solvency: after taxes, repaying investors, and splitting proceeds with his brother Van, the HBO payout dwindled to $200,000. Following an MIT fellowship that inspired him to launch a tech startup, Neistat accumulated $200,000 in debt. Committing to an 800-day daily vlogging streak in 2015 was where preparation finally met opportunity. For Neistat, publishing hundreds of consecutive videos forged an authentic bond with audiences that traditional television could never replicate. Corporate Friction and Managerial Burnout at Beme (75:54) Neistat’s tech venture Beme culminated in a $36 million acquisition by CNN, but he views it as an operational failure. Leading up to the sale, Beme was out of capital; Neistat and co-founder Matt Hackett cut their salaries to zero, and Neistat funded paychecks out of pocket. The exit brought unexpected guilt when employees who had declined lucrative offers at Facebook felt trapped in corporate bureaucracy. The venture unraveled quickly when CNN terminated the co-founders' contracts after 11 months of a three-year deal. Neistat takes full accountability, citing his own hubris and failure to lead corporate initiatives. The psychological toll of managing 35 employees prompted him to abandon staff entirely; today, he employs zero assistants, ignores schedules, and mops his own studio floors to maintain absolute operational control. Authenticity Versus the MrBeastification of Content (45:58) While Neistat respects Jimmy Donaldson (MrBeast) as an empire builder whose business model will be studied at universities, he strongly critiques the "MrBeastification" of YouTube. He rejects view count as a proxy for artistic value, describing algorithmic optimization and copying top creators as a soul-crushing "race to the bottom." Citing cinema history, where Best Picture winners rarely match top-grossing blockbusters, Neistat maintains that enduring art requires personal truth rather than viral junk food. This philosophy guides his household rules: he shields his eight-year-old daughter Francine from digital metrics, encouraging private stop-motion animation while banning public accounts, subscriber chasing, and identifiable imagery. In his own career, Neistat deleted the YouTube Studio app and aspires to a Quentin Tarantino-like model—releasing high-impact, standalone work while preserving total personal anonymity. Financial Comfort and the Guilt of Inaction (90:09) Generating 3 billion views brought intrusive public scrutiny and domestic strain, eventually prompting Neistat's relocation to Los Angeles. Comparing his current phase to the unstructured experimental film Koyaanisqatsi, Neistat describes a relaxed lifestyle of family dinners, gym workouts, and studio woodworking. Neistat candidly rejects framing this lull as necessary creative recharging, calling it "pure indulgence" enabled by accumulated financial runway. With 25 unproduced video concepts in his phone, he admits that financial comfort has temporarily blunted the urgency that once compelled him to produce. To overcome creative paralysis, he advises emerging artists to realize "nobody cares about you," explaining that shedding the fear of external judgment is what unlocks genuine originality. Neistat acknowledges that coasting on past momentum is economically and artistically unsustainable, leaving open the central question of whether a creator whose signature style was forged by raw poverty and existential desperation can rediscover peak creative urgency without the pressure of having to survive.

YouTube 先驱 Casey Neistat 在访谈中回顾其职业生涯时指出，创作成功的核心在于对制作过程本身的耐受与热爱，而非对流量、外部认可或终点结果的盲目追逐。他认为真正的持久影响力来自表达个人真实的艺术追求，以及在缺乏备用退路时展现出的极度主动性。 缺乏退路的底层生存与长期耐心 (28:42) Neistat 认为公众对野心存在浪漫化误解，将真正拉开差距的因素归结为枯燥而不体面的“耐心”，即愿意承受长达二十年面对数据惨淡和冷落的反馈循环。他在 15 岁离家、16 岁成为年轻父亲，早年靠在餐馆洗碗、拿最低时薪（约 7.25 至 8 美元）和依靠政府 WIC 救济券换取牛奶尿布勉强糊口。这种一无所有的境地剥夺了他拥有“备选方案”（Plan B）的可能，反而促使他产生如被野狼追赶般的生存紧迫感，并推动他毅然移居纽约。 在长达约十五年的传统影视创作尝试中，他虽曾以 200 万美元向 HBO 出售节目、作品入围戛纳电影节并获得独立精神奖，但扣除分成、税款与投资款后生活依然拮据，甚至在 2015 年开启每日 Vlog（日更博客）前负债达 20 万美元。他表示自己花了约八年时间才达到数十万订阅量，随后的流量爆发正是此前十余年扎实准备撞上平台成熟机遇的结果。 高自主性与亲历亲为的问题解决能力 (72:03) 回顾技术转型的尝试，Neistat 在担任 MIT 媒体实验室研究员期间受《Hatching Twitter》启发创立了软件公司 Beme。尽管没有任何计算机编程基础，他仍通过刷爆信用卡与银行信用额度强行切入科技行业。他将这种心态定义为“高自主性”（high agency）——一种类似于航天工程师“绝不会因我而失败”的责任意识，坚信无论面临汽车受损还是紧急寻人危机，均应由自己承担解决责任而非等待权威介入。 然而，这种缺乏资质的鲁莽行动也伴随着巨大代价。虽然 Beme 最终以 3600 万美元被 CNN/Turner 收购，但公司在出售前一年已资金链断裂，创始人零薪工作且自掏腰包垫付薪酬。收购后团队对转为大企业员工感到失落，且 Neistat 与 CNN 的 3 年期合约仅维持 11 个月便因管理摩擦与个人傲慢遭解雇告终。这段经历使他深刻意识到管理 35 名员工带来的心理创伤，促使他如今选择彻底独立作业，连日常扫地或日程安排都拒绝雇佣助理介入。 追逐流量与追求艺术真实的哲学分歧 (45:58) Neistat 严厉批评了当前 YouTube 生态中的“MrBeast 化”倾向，即数以百万计的创作者机械模仿 Jimmy Donaldson（MrBeast）以数据为导向的成功范式。虽然他高度肯定 Donaldson 建立商业帝国的商业天才，但他强调单纯追求播放量是一种令人沮丧的“竞次”游戏。他援引奥斯卡历史说明，过去 80 年间获最佳影片奖的作品与当年票房冠军重合仅三四次，证明能长期留在观众心中的往往是具备真诚情感与个人表达的作品，而非转瞬即逝的“垃圾快餐”内容。 这一理念同样延伸至他的家庭教育。为了防止数字指标对未成年人心理健康造成负面影响，他和妻子虽然全力支持 8 岁女儿制作定格动画并提供器材，但严格禁止女儿露脸、公开账号或在社交媒体上追逐点赞与订阅数，坚决隔离将成名视作目标的虚荣心态。 名气反噬与从日更走向隐退的反思 在连续 800 天每日更新 Vlog、两年内斩获约 30 亿次播放后，极度的个人曝光严重侵蚀了 Neistat 与妻子 Candice 的个人隐私，逼迫他们不得不搬入高安保大楼并迁往洛杉矶。日更 Vlog 最初旨在剔除传统真人秀的虚假剧本、呈现真实生活，但该流派后续逐渐被噱头和标题党同化。Neistat 坦言失去持续追逐的工作节奏曾让他陷入长达数月的迷茫期，如今他将自己的生活比作实验电影《Koyaanisqatsi》，享受陪伴家庭与在工作室做木工的无结构状态。 面对手机备忘录中积攒的约 25 个未拍摄影片构想，他删除了手机上的 YouTube Studio 软件并停止关注广告收益与评论，渴望像导演 Quentin Tarantino 一样保持现实匿名性，仅在推出重磅作品时露面。他建议新一代创作者认清“根本没人在意你”的客观现实，从而卸下假想的外界评判包袱，勇敢追求未经抄袭的独创性表达。 Neistat 坦承自己当前安逸的生活状态是基于过去积累的财务缓冲，若长期不投入实质创作在实践与心理上都不可持续。如何平衡个人隐退的渴望与对纯粹艺术表达的内在驱动，是他仍未完全解决的核心课题。

## Background 本期内容由知名播客频道 The Diary Of A CEO（主持人 Steven Bartlett）于 2023 年 12 月 11 日在 YouTube 平台发布。节目简介重点推介了这期与“Vlog 之王”Casey Neistat 的深度长谈，聚焦于创作者在光环背后所承受的挑战、离开高频更新背后的真实原因以及他当下的生活与未来规划。 ## TL;DR 在长达近两小时的对谈中，Casey Neistat 深入回顾了自己从未成年早育、靠救济金打拼到成为全球现象级内容创作者的逆袭人生，撕下了世人对成功的浪漫化外衣。他坦诚剖析了连续 800 天日更 Vlog 与创办科技公司 Beme 的疯狂与煎熬，以及被 CNN 收购后因理念冲突心力交瘁出局的阵痛。登顶后巨大的名利并未带来持久幸福，反而带来了失去个人隐私的恐惧与空虚；如今的他逐渐放缓节奏、回归家庭，在自责与松弛感中重新探寻真正经得起时间考验的纯粹艺术表达。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话诚挚而极具张力，Casey 带着纽约客特有的粗粝、幽默与毫无粉饰的坦率，彻底打破了励志毒鸡汤的虚假光环。Steven 的提问深刻且富有共情，让谈话在底层挣扎的残酷现实、创业受挫的羞愧与为人父母的心理防线之间自如切换。听众能真切感受到一位站在流量顶峰的先锋在经历精神虚无与放逐后，对名气毒性的清醒反思，以及那种剥离算法束缚、渴望重新用双手触摸真实创作的赤诚与厚重感。 ## Bulletin - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=0s) Casey Neistat 揭示了每日更新 Vlog 爆发背后的真实代价：在 18 个月暴增千万订阅前，他经历长达 8 年的停滞与 20 万美元巨额债务，且功成名就后成名带来的安全隐患与深层虚无感远超外界想象。 - [44:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2650s) 针对当前视频创作环境，Casey 警告警惕“野兽先生化”（Mr. Beastification），批评盲目跟风、唯播放量论是“竞相逐底”，并强调唯有经得起时间考验的真实表达与艺术创作才具备长久生命力。 - [01:15:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4535s) Beme 以约 3600 万美元被 CNN 收购后，创始人与技术团队的初创预期出现严重断裂，Casey 在入驻 CNN 仅 11 个月后便因理念冲突与管理困境黯然出局，留下了深重的管理创伤。 - [01:39:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5974s) Casey 剖析了传统日更 Vlog 模式的衰落，指出追逐流量和哗众取宠导致了其生态崩塌，而未来最具生命力的新形态正转向垂直细分、不靠出卖私人生活的利基（niche）专业内容。 ## Key takeaways - [04:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=293s) 无监管散养的童年与极端逆境迫使 Casey 极早掌握生存技能并展现出商业敏锐度，但也让如今生活优渥的他陷入如何育儿的矛盾中。 - [12:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=723s) 童年的动荡与贫困让 Casey 确立了一生的终极使命：逐一兑现年少时对自己许下的每一个承诺。 - [14:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=849s) 15 岁离家出走与 17 岁初为人父的绝境，反而造就了“一无所有便无所畏惧”的孤注一掷与生存莽撞。 - [18:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1125s) 痛恨廉价的励志毒鸡汤，Casey 强调生活在现代西方社会的人客观上手握巨大特权，挫折在这一前提下完全可以硬顶过去。 - [22:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1332s) 人生的终极目标是快乐与内心满足，而非为了赢而赢；大多数人不敢冒险往往是因为他们并未打心底里真正渴望那种生活。 - [25:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1502s) 从重金属乐队 Anvil 的苦熬到内容创作，耐心的底色是年复一年承受被冷落与羞辱的痛苦，而非浪漫化的坚持。 - [34:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2079s) 没有退路（无 Plan B）是前行的核心燃料；一旦潜意识意识到备选方案的存在，执行主方案的专注力与动力便会大幅削弱。 - [42:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2572s) 野生的电影语言源于未经科班规训的摸索，以及早期数码设备极其有限的硬件瓶颈所倒逼出的快节奏剪辑风格。 - [45:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2756s) MrBeast 坦荡追求商业帝国的模式值得尊重，但全网机械复制这种唯播放量论的套路正在扼杀创作的多样性与艺术真实。 - [55:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3327s) 极力保护孩子免受社交媒体虚荣指标的侵害，切断以点赞和播放量换取外部认可的恶性心理反馈回路。 - [58:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3518s) 历经 15 年的视听手艺磨砺与高额负债，耐心最终与 YouTube 生态成熟的时代风口猛烈碰撞，引爆了每日 Vlog 的指数级复利增长。 - [01:07:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4073s) 通过亲手造工具、干苦工积累出“能有多难”的极强主动性（High Agency），但也因自负与天真在软件创业管理上付出了沉重代价。 - [01:18:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4695s) CNN 收购 Beme 并未带来长久胜利，管理团队的失望与企业体系内的傲慢冲突导致他在 11 个月后黯然出局。 - [01:22:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4946s) 登顶与财务自由随之带来的是巨大的精神虚无，以及生活被全方位曝光、无处遁形的成名恐惧。 - [01:33:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5588s) 拒绝将目前的闲散美化为“创作者的冬眠积蓄期”，清醒承认这是一种因为衣食无忧而拥有的特权与放纵。 - [01:37:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5828s) 给年轻创作者的核心忠告是“根本没人在意你”，尽早卸下被他人眼光绑架的心理包袱才能换来彻底的创作自由与原创突破。 - [01:41:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=6090s) 传统 Vlog 因追逐博眼球和流量游戏走向衰落，小众硬核垂直内容成为健康的新生态，而昆汀式“作品说话、个人隐形”才是最理想的艺术状态。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=0s) 聚光灯背后的暗面与成名的代价 在谈及成名带来的巨大冲击时，Casey Neistat 坦言一切曾变得令人恐惧。当时名声带来的压力与安全隐患将他推向了黑暗边缘，逼得他们不得不举家搬进洛杉矶的一栋高安保大楼，他甚至一度感到手足无措。作为 YouTube 平台上的传奇人物与“Vlog 之王”，Casey 被公认为内容创作史上最高产的创作者之一。然而，外界眼中看似浪漫、辉煌的成功背后，却是一段长年累月、近乎偏执的隐忍。 Casey 强调，人们习惯将成功浪漫化，但现实绝非如此。他曾连续 800 天每天更新一部视频，但在此之前，他花了整整 8 年时间才将粉丝量从零做到几十万，期间年复一年地遭遇挫折，个人负债一度高达 20 万美元。“那时感觉糟糕透了，你就像个彻底的失败者。”然而，正如他所言，“耐心终将与机遇猛烈相撞”，随后的 18 个月里，他的频道如同坐上火箭一般蹿升到了 1000 万订阅。但真正达到巅峰、卖掉公司并功成名就之后，挑战才真正降临。Casey 认为人生的终极目标应当是快乐与内心的充实，而非为了赢而赢；他跑马拉松不是为了冲过终点线的那一瞬间，而是源于对奔跑本身纯粹的热爱。 ### [01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=90s) 传奇背后的草根底色：从逆境到顶峰 主持人 Steven Bartlett 在开场白中将 Casey 视作创意、视频及整个 YouTube 生态中无可替代的传奇与先驱。虽然全球有数以千万计的观众熟悉 Casey 的镜头语言，但鲜少有人真正了解他作为草根逆袭者的完整底层故事，以及驱使他一步步成为全球最知名、最受赞誉创作者的深层动机。 这不仅是一个底层青年的翻身史，更是一个关于如何将微小的爱好和不可名状的热情一路生拉硬拽搬上高山、最终变成庞大事业的行动指南。如今的 Casey 已经逐步退出了每日高强度上传的聚光灯中心，他在本期节目中罕见地坦露了自己目前的真实生活状态，并分享了在全世界仿佛都与你为敌时，如何做到行业第一的底层逻辑。 ### [03:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=203s) 铁轨上的硬币：完全无管教的童年探索 当被问及童年有哪些“最先倒下的多米诺骨牌”塑造了今天的自己时，Casey 笑着反问：“你有多少时间聊这个？”他回忆起自己的整个童年基本处于彻底的“散养”状态，父母几乎完全不插手他的生活。没有“今晚作业写完了吗”的查问，也没有“六点准时开饭”的规矩，家里唯一的指令就是含糊不清的一句“天黑前回家，不然有你好看”，但究竟什么才算犯错、什么时候才算天黑，从来没有人定义过。这种自由甚至略显荒唐的松散环境，变成了一场充满冒险与试探的童年漫游。 他分享了一个极其生动的童年缩影：他家后院紧挨着一条铁路线，小时候几个孩子最热衷的游戏就是收集一分钱硬币压在铁轨上，等火车呼啸而过将其压成扁平的金属片。然而，疾驰而来的货运列车会提前引发铁轨剧烈震动，把硬币直接震落。为了能成功把硬币压扁，十来岁、刚上六年级的 Casey 摸索出的唯一解决办法，就是在笨重巨大的货运列车几乎已经逼近眼前的极短距离内，冒着危险飞身冲上前把硬币迅速摆到铁轨上。这种游走在危险边缘、全凭本能即兴摸索的举动，恰恰是他幼年生活的真实写照。 ### [04:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=293s) 匮乏与独立：逆境带给创业者的残酷馈赠 Steven Bartlett 对此深有共鸣，指出这种极度缺乏监管的环境虽然看似放任，却为独立探索与自主实验提供了广阔真空。Casey 赞同“需要乃发明之母”的说法，认为十岁左右的孩子一旦发现父母无法依靠，唯一的出路就是自己把生存技能给彻底“琢磨明白”。但作为如今拥有自己家庭的父亲，Casey 陷入了一种无法调和的深刻矛盾中：一方面，他本能地想要竭尽全力保护自己的孩子免受自己当年经历过的任何风霜；但另一方面，他又深知正是当年的那些艰难困苦才塑造了现在的自己。 这种认知让他在为人父母时时常感到纠结与自我怀疑。由于目前经济条件优渥，他选择将孩子送入昂贵温馨的私立学校接受最优质的教育，但潜意识深处他总有一个声音在提醒：或许把他们扔进纽约市公立学校去靠自己摸爬滚打，反而对成长更有益。Casey 坦言自己年少时对公立学校深恶痛绝，因而本能地想替孩子挡掉这些痛苦，可他又无法确认这种保护究竟是在帮他们还是在害他们。 回忆起童年的生存摸索，Casey 展现出了惊人的商业敏锐度： - **报童时期**：年纪很小的时候就开始靠送报纸赚钱，每周能赚大约 30 美元。 - **初中生意经**：八年级开始接触大麻后，他迅速算清了分销当中的巨额利润差价：如果买入四分之一盎司打包装成 10 美分一包的零售小袋（dime bags），能获得 4 倍（400%）的回报；但要是能凑齐 250 美元直接批发四分之一磅（quarter pound），再按八分之一盎司（eighths）分销，回报率将高达惊人的 16 倍（1600%）。 - **丛林生存法则**：为了在这场充满暴力的危险买卖中活下来，尚未发育的幼年 Casey 还必须想办法拉拢能够充当保护伞的大块头朋友，以防自己被黑吃黑毒打。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Casey童年自发商业模式与生存逻辑 accDescr: 展示Casey在缺乏管教的环境下，从做报童到计算街头分销利润并寻求力量保护的自立过程。 subgraph SurvivalTrigger["生存驱动机制"] A["家庭监管与经济缺位"] --> B["被迫自力更生"] end subgraph EarlyVentures["早期生存实验"] B --> C["基础劳动：做报童<br/>(每周约$30)"] B --> D["街头交易：利差计算"] end subgraph BusinessLogic["街头分销与安全杠杆"] D --> E["小规模：1/4盎司分装为Dime Bags<br/>(400% 收益回报)"] D --> F["大规模：筹集$250批发1/4磅拆售<br/>(1600% 收益回报)"] F --> G["结交保护者防范暴力欺凌<br/>(构建原始安全生态)"] end ``` ### [07:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=449s) 挣扎的中产之家：过度疲惫的父亲与游离的母亲 谈到父母缺席的原因，Casey 解释说父母其实是“无意中做得很棒”，他们当时确实已经倾尽了全力。父亲为了养家糊口每周必须疯狂工作无数个小时，整个人完全处于手停口停、“过一天算一天”的工薪族状态。全家维持着一种看似体面但极其紧绷的中产阶层生活：父母开的虽然是沃尔沃，但永远是买二手开了五年的老车；家里的房子住着还算舒服，但橱柜里常常空空如也，连食物都不充裕；一家人偶尔去度假，也只是几个人挤在老式旅行车后座开两个小时车，去邻近小镇破旧廉价的汽车旅馆住上两三个晚上。 至于母亲，Casey 直言自己至今都无法完全读懂她。母亲生长在一个有八个孩子的大家庭，属于旧日贵族血脉的末端。Casey 将母亲家族形容为“拥有贵族的一切特权感与傲气，却唯独没有贵族的财富”。这使得母亲在家庭中始终像一个难以捉摸的谜，精神上长期处于游离和缺席的状态。 在这样的家庭格局中，共有四个孩子，彼此的存在感争夺十分激烈： - **哥哥 Van**：作为长子，魅力非凡、光彩照人，天生具有强大的领袖气场。 - **姐姐**：家中唯一的女孩，地位独特。 - **弟弟 Dean**：家里最小的宝贝，受尽宠爱。 - **夹在中间的 Casey**：出生时间尴尬，仅比姐姐小 13 个月，又比弟弟大 2 岁，宛如一个“意外降临的产物”。 为了在资源有限且父母注意力稀缺的家庭里争得一席之地，童年的 Casey 只能逼迫自己变成叫得最响、最爱折腾的那个孩子。然而，家庭内部日积月累的动荡与摩擦终究无法遏止，如同雪球般不断滚大，最终以父母走向决裂、彻底离婚而告终，将 Casey 的少年生活推向了更为严酷的境地。 ### [09:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=589s) 破碎的家庭与对父亲的坦白 在探讨童年时，Casey 谈到了家庭破裂带来的沉重影响。家庭中充满了争吵、混乱以及将错误归咎于无辜孩子的荒唐局面。尽管成年后的他能够客观地理解父母当时已经拼尽全力，但在当时看来，那种境况依然糟糕得令人难以接受。 更令人震惊的是，在 Casey 年仅 14 岁的时候，他就已经敏锐地发现了母亲出轨的事实。他至今能清晰地回忆起当时的情景——他和父亲面对面坐在一张桌子旁，父亲的坐姿以及听到真相时的神态反应。对于一个 14 岁的孩子来说，母亲的不忠是显而易见且无可辩驳的。但在当时，父亲每周超时工作数百万个小时，仅仅为了勉强维持生计；面对冰冷而痛苦的现实，父亲本能地选择像鸵鸟一样把头埋进沙子里避而不见。 那时的 Casey 正值青春期，常因为在学校惹祸而与母亲发生激烈冲突。怀着对母亲的愤怒，他径直走到父亲面前质问：“关于这个女人，你到底打算怎么办？”多年后回望，Casey 坦言母亲本身是个好人，也有常人的缺点，但在当时的生活重压与人生至暗时刻，那些糟糕的出轨行为或许更像是一种无声的“呼救（cry for help）”或是寻求关注的极端扭曲方式。 --- ### [12:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=723s) 《飞越未来》、纽约梦与对自我的终身承诺 尽管 15 岁之前的人生动荡不安，但 Casey 并没有被动地被生活打磨出难以愈合的创伤，相反，他很早就对自己的未来有了异常清晰的蓝图。虽然他并不知道实现目标的具体途径到底是什么，但他无比笃定自己的终点就是纽约。 这一执念在童年时期有着极具画面感的具象体现： - 他小学社会研究课本第 41 页上是一张跨越两页的纽约市天际线全景图。他平时甚至不敢轻易翻开那页，因为每一次看到都会引发强烈的内心震颤与情感共鸣。 - 汤姆·汉克斯（Tom Hanks）主演的经典电影《飞越未来》（*Big*）被他反复播放了无数遍。Casey 至今能背诵片中的每一句台词，这部电影在他心中就像是人生圣经和行动路线图。电影中主角独自前往纽约、按照自己的方式体验生活的过程，正是他内心极度渴望成为的那个“真正的小孩”。 Casey 在 YouTube 上制作过数百个视频反复提及一个核心母题：**他一生的终极使命，就是去兑现自己童年时对自己许下的每一个承诺。** 无论是小男孩幻想着“有朝一日要成为宇航员”、在被母亲责骂时发誓“以后我有孩子绝不对他们大喊大叫”、在挨饿且通心粉吃光时咬牙默念“总有一天我要让家里的冰箱永远塞满食物”，还是面对混蛋老板时暗自下定决心“将来我绝不要有任何老板”。这些在贫困与委屈中许下的诺言多得可以写满整本电话簿，而他的人生信条就是必须将清单上的每一项逐一勾选完成。对于能否做到，他的内心从未有过半点迟疑。 --- ### [14:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=849s) 15 岁离家出走与 17 岁初为人父 在 15 岁那年的一个周一晚上，由于父母分分合合引发的家庭矛盾达到顶峰，Casey 与母亲爆发了一场空前激烈的争吵。母亲直接下了最后通牒，要求他必须照做，否则就滚出这个家。年轻气盛的 Casey 回应了一句“行，那我走”，随即便摔门而去。 所谓的“搬出去”没有任何家具搬家车，仅仅是一个背着背包的少年，像极了流浪汉用一根木棍挑着红手帕包裹离家。他起初借宿在街角一位朋友家，那对父母信仰虔诚但基本不管事，接着他又在其他朋友家辗转借住。不久后，15 岁的 Casey 与两位分别为 17 和 18 岁的女孩合租生活，并很快与其中一位女孩走入亲密关系。 很快女方怀了孕，并在 Casey 刚满 17 岁左右生下了他们的儿子 Owen。面对即将到来的婴儿，周遭的一切都陷入了混乱： - 女方在怀孕八个月时曾在车里痛哭失控，崩溃地质问他：“我们没钱，你甚至连份正式工作都没有，我们到底该怎么办？！” - 少年 Casey 把车停在路边，毫无惧色地安抚对方：“一切都会好起来的，我们要有孩子了，这会很棒的，没问题的。” 回想当时那种不知天高地厚的从容，Casey 称那是纯粹的“天真（naivety）”。年少时的他一无所有，没有声誉（朋友的父母甚至都把他当成无可救药的堕落分子，禁止自己的孩子与他来往），没有金钱，没有资源，也没有任何人脉。正如一只被逼入绝境的困兽，“一无所有的人就无所畏惧，就像被逼到墙角的老鼠，唯一的出路就是咬碎一切冲出去。”相比之下，如今功成名就、家庭美满的 Casey 反而会因为害怕失去眼前的幸福而变得如履薄冰。 --- ### [17:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1029s) 告别后厨洗碗工与义无反顾的纽约之行 与 Owen 的母亲分开后（Casey 承认当时自己一身毛病、极难相处，对方甩掉他是完全合情合理的），他坐在原地制定了一个宏大的计划：“好，五年之内我要搬去纽约，把一切搞定。” 在离开家乡之前，Casey 唯一的生存技能就是在餐馆后厨打杂。由于父亲从事二手餐馆设备翻新与销售（如烤箱、步入式冷库），父亲总能帮他在各类餐厅谋到一份差事。在餐饮业的最底层，Casey 干遍了所有脏活累活： - 在后厨洗碗 - 担任备菜切配工 - 倒垃圾、清洗垃圾桶、拖地等底层杂务 因此，他对去纽约最初的规划极其朴素：**只要别让我在餐馆洗碗打杂，干什么都行。** 原本规划需要筹备五年的搬迁计划，在现实中仅仅维系了六个月，年仅 19 岁的 Casey 便毅然决然辞掉了餐厅的工作，带着孤注一掷的莽撞与无畏，踏上了前往纽约的列车。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Casey 少年时期的重大转折与生存逃脱 accDescr: 描述 Casey Neistat 从 14 岁洞察家庭危机、15 岁离家出走、初为人父到最终决意奔赴纽约的经历过程。 subgraph HomeCrisis ["家庭震荡 (14-15岁)"] A["目睹母亲出轨并向父亲揭露"] --> B["家庭争吵爆发<br/>15岁背着背包离家出走"] end subgraph Survival ["早育与底层生存 (16-17岁)"] B --> C["借宿漂泊与租房<br/>女友怀孕并生下儿子 Owen"] C --> D["餐馆底层打工<br/>洗碗、切配、倒垃圾"] end subgraph TheLeap ["奔赴梦想 (19岁)"] D --> E["立志不当后厨杂工<br/>立下5年纽约目标"] E --> F["仅仅6个月后辞职<br/>孤注一掷搬往纽约"] end ``` ### [18:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1125s) 厌恶“励志毒鸡汤”与正视客观特权 Casey 坦言自己极其厌恶诸如“人生只有一次，去追寻你的梦想吧”之类的陈词滥调和“励志春药”（inspo porn），尽管他承认自己过去也在某种程度上助长了这种网络鸡汤的泛滥。他之所以反感，是因为如果你必须依靠一条 Instagram 动态的口号来提醒自己去行动，那往往为时已晚，这种内容对人毫无实际意义，纯粹是自我安慰式的“精神自慰”。然而讽刺的是，这些俗套的话背后往往蕴含着真实的道理。Casey 指出，现年 42 岁的自己绝不可能再做出 19 岁时的抉择——当时他只有初三（10年级）学历，没有高中文凭，毫无工作和生活经验，身边还有一个两岁的儿子，却毅然在毫无计划的情况下搬去了全世界生活成本最高、最残酷的城市纽约。他认为，如果在年轻时没有那一股冲动，后来可能永远也做不到了；人的一生中似乎有一种责任，一旦内心深处感受到某种强烈无比的召唤，就必须去兑现它。 谈及当年的孤注一掷，Casey 强调现在自己能更清醒地理解这一切背后的“特权”（Privilege）。虽然他不是含着金汤匙出生的富家子弟，年轻时靠着政府救济粮、领免费尿布和牛奶才勉强养活儿子，每周在厨房洗碗打工 60 个小时，起始时薪只有 7.25 美元（后来涨到 8 美元），但他依然认为自己是“全世界最幸运的人”。面对南苏丹那些挣扎求生的孩子，一个出生在美国、身体健全、大脑正常的人，本身就已经抽中了生命的头等彩票。未成年意外有子固然是人生的一记磕绊，但在手握这张“人生大奖”的前提下，这点挫折完全可以硬顶过去。当主持人 Steven 试图将其归结为“心态上的特权”（privilege of mindset）而非单纯的客观特权时，Casey 直接爆粗反驳，坚持认为这就是纯粹的客观现实：纵观自 5000 年前苏美尔人发明文字以来的整部人类历史，生活在当今西方社会的人所拥有的生存条件和发展机会，在人类历史上从未有过。 - **早年起步条件**：10 年级学历、无文凭、无经验，带着两岁幼子；在餐馆后厨打工，初始时薪 7.25 美元，每周工作 60 小时，依赖政府救济生存。 - **历史对比**：Casey 举例提到网络上曾热传的一份 1892 年伦敦死因统计，当时因牙齿感染（bad teeth）致死的人竟然高居死因第四位；现代人所承受的挫折与苦难，与一两百年前相比根本微不足道。 --- ### [22:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1332s) 为什么许多人不敢跨出那一步？欲望与真正的幸福 Steven 提问：如今肯定也有许多人在海鲜餐馆后厨拿着 7 美元时薪洗碗，客观上他们一无所有、几乎没有任何可以失去的东西，那为什么大多数人无法迈出豪赌未来的关键一步？Casey 引用了老电影《球童也疯狂》（Caddyshack）中的名句“这世界也需要挖沟工人”，并给出了非常务实的剖析：并不是每个人都渴望那样的生活，这完全没有问题。人一生中或许能争取到自己想要的东西，但你无法勉强自己去“渴望”那些你其实并不真正想要的目标。许多人只是“想要去想要”（want to want it），却并非打心底里渴望；如果一个人骨子里真的想做某件事，他根本不需要听励志播客来下定决心，早就已经在埋头去做了。 Casey 进一步强调，人生的终极目标应当是追求“幸福与满足感”，那种“只有成为赢家才能幸福”的观念大错特错。演艺界和摇滚圈充斥着站在行业顶峰的名人因酗酒、吸毒自毁甚至自杀的黑暗悲剧，正是因为所谓的顶峰成就根本不等于幸福。他以自己发小为例：当年 Casey 离开家乡去纽约、辞掉洗碗工工作时，正是这位好友接替了他的后厨工作。25 年过去了，发小依然留在老家，从事着类似的工作，过着典型的美国中产生活，拥有美满的婚姻、三个可爱的孩子和一条一起晨跑的宠物狗，每天亲自接送孩子上下学。Casey 直言，年轻时的自己或许无法理解，但现在看来，发小的人生才是“幸福与满足感的具象化”。发小从未想过要逃离家乡或“飞上月球”，他找到了属于自己的定义。幸福的天空到底有多大，完全由个人自己界定。 --- ### [25:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1502s) 失败是最大的礼物：重金属乐队 Anvil 的启示 针对 Steven 提到的澳大利亚姑息治疗护士 Bronnie Ware 的调研——临终病人生命最后一天最大的遗憾普遍是“没有过上忠于自己内心的生活”，Casey 探讨了该如何鼓励那些被恐惧困住、不敢迈出第一步的人。Casey 给出的回答是：必须把失败视作人生中“最大的礼物”。失败固然痛苦难忍，但它就是生活的一部分；如果不愿意接受失败，就无法前进。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Anvil 乐队的三十年坚持与最终逆袭 accDescr: 展示 Anvil 从 80 年代风光配角到数十年底层挣扎，再因真实记录片最终爆红的历程。 subgraph S1["80 年代巅峰起点"] A["为 Def Leppard 等大牌暖场<br/>（5 万人场馆）"] --> B["从未成为领衔主角<br/>（永远的伴娘）"] end subgraph S2["长达数十年的惨淡坚守"] B --> C["50 岁在加拿大开小货车<br/>送老人送餐 / 最低工资"] C --> D["穿皮衣在酒吧为 6 个人演出<br/>借妹妹的钱录唱片无人问津"] end subgraph S3["最终的逆转与爆发"] D --> E["真实经历被打动作成纪录片<br/>《Anvil! The Story of Anvil》"] E --> F["震撼全球观众<br/>在日本体育馆演出售罄"] end ``` 为了具象化这种对梦想的死磕，Casey 讲述了加拿大重金属乐队 Anvil 及其纪录片《金属精神》（*Anvil! The Story of Anvil*）的传奇故事： - **永远的伴娘**：Anvil 在 20 世纪 80 年代曾是火热的长发金属乐队，曾为 Def Leppard 等巨星在 5 万人体育场同台暖场，但他们自身从未真正大红大紫，始终只是暖场嘉宾。 - **数十年的至暗现实**：纪录片镜头猛然切到数十年后，主唱已步入 50 岁，生活在加拿大，开着破旧小货车给老人送餐，领着微薄的最低时薪勉强度日。即使台下只有 6 个喝着啤酒的闲散酒客，他依然穿戴着当年的皮衣铆钉行头，在台上全力嘶吼。为了录制新专辑，他甚至向还要抚养孩子的亲妹妹借钱，结果唱片根本卖不出去，生活陷入极度窘迫。 - **因坚持而迎来的奇迹**：正是因为他经历了整整三四十年的彻底失败却绝不放弃，导演才发掘了这段极具张力的故事并拍成纪录片。电影上映后引起巨大轰动，Anvil 最终一炮而红，完成了在日本大型场馆门票售罄的世界巡演。 Casey 感慨道，如果在漫长的失败岁月中这位主唱哪怕有一次妥协放弃，纪录片便会沦为普通失败者的平庸叹息，再无任何惊艳之处。正是因为他甘愿吞下数十年如一日的失败苦果，才最终迎来了属于自己的成功。 ### [27:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1674s) 从《金属大军》到“耐心”：剥离成功的浪漫化外衣 凯西·奈斯塔特（Casey Neistat）意犹未尽地补充了关于加拿大重金属乐队 Anvil（金属大军）的故事后续。他曾专门就这部纪录片制作过一期 YouTube 视频，讲述其坚守梦想的纯粹；不久后该片导演竟然主动联系他，转达了乐队主唱“Lips”（史蒂夫·库德洛）的原话：“哥们儿，他超喜欢你的视频！”这让凯西瞬间化身追星成功的小迷弟。借此契机，凯西谈到大众对失败的认知误区：人们往往把失败看得太重，而这种恐惧的本质无非是“害怕别人会怎么看自己”。 主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）指出，无论是 Anvil 还是凯西自己的生涯轨迹，最打动人的特质在于一种旁人看来“近乎妄想的坚持（persistence）”。在凯西开启每日 Vlog（Daily Vlog）之前，他默默耕耘了整整五年才积累到约 40 万订阅者，这种坚持显然不是为了某个具体的功利节点。对此，凯西直言他如今更倾向于使用“耐心（patience）”这个词。因为在励志鸡汤中，“坚持”被包装得过于性感浪漫——就像那张经典海报上一只爪子死死抓住树枝的悬挂小猫，底下印着“坚持”两个大字；而“耐心”一词听起来毫无吸引力、毫无光环。 当被有志于从事内容创作的新人问及最重要的建议时，凯西的回答永远只有“耐心”二字。他强调必须剥离一切被媒体扭曲、美化了的感召力，因为真实的奋斗过程不是美丽的诗篇，而是“烂透了（fucking awful）”的现实折磨。如果一个人没有做好咬牙坚持到底的准备，要么在痛苦中找到成功，要么至死方休；至少当生命走到尽头身处临终关怀病房时，不会后悔自己中途放弃，而是能豪迈地想：“我哪怕只剩最后一天，也还能把这事办成。” ### [30:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1818s) 持续失败的屈辱感与 MrBeast 的往事 凯西尖锐地指出，年复一年地经历失败、承受身边所有人的白眼是极其屈辱的。无论是做音乐在商场中庭卖力弹唱却无人驻足，还是作为视频创作者上传作品后播放量为零，都会让人觉得自己是个不折不扣的窝囊废（loser）。他提到了好友 Jimmy Donaldson（即全球顶级 YouTuber “MrBeast”）早期那些鲜为人知的惨痛经历。 Jimmy 刚起步时用的是母亲那台破烂不堪、自带摄像头的康柏（Compaq）电脑录制视频，作品粗糙拙劣，如今早已从互联网上被清理得一干二净。第二天去学校，仅有的两个看过视频的同学当面嘲讽他拍得有多烂。凯西感叹，被一次又一次告知“你不行、你很差劲”，并且这种失败还会被冷冰冰的数据具象化： - **零播放量**的视频后台数据； - 乐队演出时**空无一人**的台下坐席； - 脱口秀演员在台上抛梗却**毫无笑声**的尴尬冷场； - 厨师开张新餐馆却**门可罗雀**； - 创业搭建网店却**一件T恤都卖不出去**。 这种持续被现实打脸的滋味糟糕透顶。凯西质问：“面对这种糟糕透顶的煎熬，你做好持续忍受 20 年的准备了吗？如果你做不到，那就趁早别掺和，根本不值得。” Persistence 听起来像是在马拉松第 22 英里时为你加油：“坚持住，再跑 4 英里就冲线了！”轻松又硬核；而单纯的 Patience 则是毫无掩饰的枯燥等待与日复一日的承受。 ### [31:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1916s) 没有退路：从 WIC 救济卡到“9·11”被炸毁的公寓 史蒂芬问了一个核心问题：面对身败名裂的羞辱、父母催促去“找份正经工作”的压力，任何理性权衡利弊的人都会选择放弃，那么凯西和 MrBeast 身上这股近乎病态的耐心究竟从何而来？ 凯西坦言，答案简单而残酷：“因为根本没有 B 计划（Plan B）。”对于没有大学文凭的他而言，压根不存在任何退路。他不可能像精英阶层那样扭头去广告公司入职、拿 8 万美元年薪、租舒适公寓过安逸日子。如果拍片这条路走不通，他的唯一退路就是滚回餐馆后厨，拿着每小时 7.25 美元的最低时薪洗碗刷盘子，或者依赖政府针对贫困家庭的“妇幼营养补助计划”（WIC，Women, Infants, and Children）。他清晰地记得那张补助卡，只能在超市刷卡购买婴儿奶粉和尿布，哪怕想多买一台任天堂游戏机都会直接被拒。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 凯西的无退路生存压力链 accDescr: 展示凯西在没有备选方案的极端生存压力下，如何将所有精力倾注在唯一出路上。 subgraph S1["生存现实（无退路）"] A["无大学文凭 / 无正规公司背书"] --> B["最低时薪 $7.25 洗碗工"] B --> C["WIC 救济卡：仅限尿布与牛奶"] end subgraph S2["纽约漂泊危机"] D["$1800 借款转租到期"] --> E["$300/月 借宿他人客厅沙发"] E --> F["2001年 9·11 事件公寓被毁"] end subgraph S3["唯一抉择"] G["拒绝父亲回乡劝告：'我会搞定的'"] H[" Plan A 成为唯一出路：死磕到底"] end S1 --> S2 --> S3 ``` 凯西回忆起初闯纽约的窘迫生活。最初靠着哥哥前女友父母的信用卡垫付了 1800 美元，合租了三个月的房子（每月 400 至 600 美元）。租约到期后流落街头，他遇到一个人愿意以每月 300 美元把自家的沙发租给他蹭睡。凯西从 2001 年 9 月 1 日开始睡在那张沙发上，仅仅睡了 11 晚——到了 9 月 11 日早晨，震惊世界的“9·11”恐怖袭击爆发，整栋公寓受损严重，浓烟与火光漫天。 当天晚些时候，双子塔残骸仍在燃烧，凯西在废墟般的城市里接通了父亲的电话。父亲在电话那头严肃地劝诫他：“我想你该回家了。恐怖分子把你的公寓炸了，你没有工作，没有前途，没有钱，现在连个睡觉的地方都没了。”然而凯西的回答平静而坚定：“你在说什么？我为什么要回去？我会搞定的，我没事的。再见，老爸。”正是这种将自己逼入绝境的“妄想级耐心”，构成了他前行的全部燃料。 ### [34:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2079s) “B 计划”心理陷阱与被饿狼追赶的生存动力 史蒂芬引用了一项行为心理学经典实验印证凯西的境遇： - 研究人员将受试者分为两组完成复杂的益智拼图，只要正确拼完即可获得一份零食作为奖励； - 实验组被额外告知：“如果拼不出来也没关系，走廊尽头的自动贩卖机里也有同样的零食可以拿”； - 实验结果显示，只要得知存在“备选方案（Plan B）”，该组受试者的专注力、积极性以及拼图完成率就会出现断崖式下跌。 这充分证明，哪怕只是意识到替代方案的存在，都会在潜意识中削弱人们执行主方案的动力。凯西对这个实验拍手称赞，这生动诠释了什么叫“刀架在脖子上”的决绝。他回忆起自己初获成功前常挂在嘴边的一句话：“**我的生活就像是在被一群饥肠辘辘的恶狼追赶。只要我的脚步稍微慢下来一点点，就会被它们活生生吃掉。我只有一个选择，那就是拼尽全力往前跑，否则就会被撕成碎片。**”这种残酷而黑暗的危机感，是他最强大的力量源泉。 初到纽约的那个夏天，凯西曾机缘巧合地混进了一群富家子弟的圈子。大家同为十九、二十岁的青年，但这群年轻人出入挥金如土，随手买单就是几百美元的酒吧账单，出门永远打出租车——在当时的凯西眼里，坐出租车奢侈得如同乘坐私人飞机。凯西曾受邀去一位女孩的公寓，她独自居住在 26 层宽敞的两居室高档公寓里，拥有额度无限的副卡；而凯西只能在 Craigslist 上寻找陌生人，挤在 300 平方英尺（约 28 平方米）暗无天日的小开间里。这种强烈的阶层落差并未化作嫉恨，反而彻底击碎了他对轻松人生的幻想，让他清醒地意识到自己必须不顾一切地狂奔。 ### [37:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2225s) 穷困带来的羞耻感与育儿的“百万美元难题” 回忆起成长过程中的拮据，凯西·奈斯塔特（Casey Neistat）谈到了那种无论如何也不希望下一代承受的心理负担。尽管贫困塑造了他清晰的人生轨迹并让他把吃苦视为一种美德，但他坦言，绝不希望自己的孩子体验他曾经历过的屈辱感——比如在餐厅用餐、账单送来时不得不躲进卫生间。他并不是故意吃白食，只是囊中羞涩导致无法像他人那样体面地分摊开支，这种无力感让人自惭形秽。年轻时约会遇到心仪的女孩问“能不能去你家坐坐”时，他也总是绞尽脑汁编造各种借口，因为他当时住的是单间廉租房（SRO），甚至是靠行贿才混进去的刑释人员中途宿舍（halfway house）。 ### [38:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2289s) 用一条烟与百元美钞“贿赂”进中途宿舍 凯西详细讲述了他住进纽约中途宿舍的荒唐经历。所谓中途宿舍，原本是专门安置刚出狱、尚不能完全自由回归社会的受监管人员的居所。凯西从朋友的表兄那里听说了门路，直接跑到大楼的值班窗口碰运气。面对隔着玻璃、态度冷淡的看门大爷，被拒绝后的凯西立刻买来一整条香烟，并在里面夹了一张 100 美元的钞票递了过去。对方随即松口，给他安排了 531 号房间，每月收取 450 美元现金。整栋楼里鱼龙混杂，住着刚出狱的罪犯、无证移民以及无家可归者，房间里既没有独立卫生间也没有厨房，但凯西当时却兴奋不已。主持人史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）感叹，客观上令人同情的悲惨境地，在特定心态和视角下却能把“地狱变成天堂”。 - **中途宿舍居住条件**：月租 450 美元现金，房号 531，无独立卫生间与厨房。 - **入住“潜规则”**：朋友告诫他“绝对不要和楼里任何人搭话”。 - **心态反差**：外人眼中的流落底层，在年轻的凯西看来却是一个能在纽约立足的难得机会。 ### [39:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2385s) 蓝色初代 iMac、剪辑狗洗澡与闯荡纽约 凯西涉足视频领域的契机发生在他正式搬去纽约之前。当时孩子的母亲与他分手，心灰意冷的凯西前往纽约投奔他无比崇拜的哥哥范·奈斯塔特（Van Neistat）。当时在布鲁克林做临时工的哥哥刚买了一台外形酷似蓝色大电视的苹果初代 iMac，电脑里自带一段小狗在儿童塑料泳池里洗澡的示例素材。两兄弟在电脑前反复剪辑这段小狗洗澡的视频自娱自乐，越玩越上瘾。随后凯西刷爆信用卡买了一台摄像机，哥哥提供电脑，兄弟俩开始拍摄并胡乱剪辑一些粗糙的视频。那一刻凯西下定决心要成为一名独立电影创作者。年仅 19 岁的他搬到纽约时，全副身家只有三样东西：那台笨重的 iMac、一书包衣物，以及一辆在第二天就被偷走的 BMX 小轮车。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 凯西·奈斯塔特的影像启蒙与迁徙路径 accDescr: 展示凯西从情感变故、接触初代iMac示例素材到刷爆信用卡买设备并迁往纽约的整个过程。 subgraph Catalyst["人生转折与启蒙"] A["感情破裂<br/>被伴侣分手"] --> B["投奔哥哥 Van<br/>抵达纽约布鲁克林"] B --> C["初代蓝色 iMac<br/>反复剪辑'狗洗澡'素材"] end subgraph Action["起步与闯荡"] C --> D["刷爆信用卡<br/>购入人生首台摄像机"] D --> E["立志成为电影人<br/>带上iMac与单车闯纽约"] end ``` ### [40:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2448s) 寻找话语权与录像带租赁店的“完美工作” 谈及被视频和叙事深度吸引的深层心理机制，凯西分析这很大程度上源于童年长期被忽视的失语感。在家里的四个孩子中他排行第三，在学校成绩垫底、频繁惹祸，不仅老师不听他申辩，连朋友的父母也对他避之唯恐不及。他在生活中从未感到自己的声音被认真倾听，直到开始制作视频，他发现自己终于能把复杂的想法和观点凝练地表达出来，并获得他人的认可与反馈。不过，他小时候并不是传统意义上的影迷（除了非常喜欢电影《飞越未来》（*Big*）以外）。在初一（七年级）的职业体验日中，其他孩子选择去附近的辉瑞制药总部见习科学家，或者去潜艇军事基地参观海军，而凯西的志愿是去录像带租赁店当学徒，原因仅仅是“想坐在那里看一整天电影还能拿工资”。他当时花三分钟把归还的录像带上架，剩下的八小时全在跟店员看电视，这段经历纯粹出于享乐，绝非昆汀·塔伦蒂诺那种苦行僧式的电影拉片研究。 ### [42:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2572s) 野生风格的诞生：技术普及与硬件限制的双重塑造 史蒂文指出，凯西之所以取得巨大成功，很大程度上得益于那种未经过电影学院规训的原始独创性。凯西对此完全赞同，他坦言自己的电影语言之所以与众不同，是因为“从未有人教过我所谓正确的方法”，他被迫摸索出自己的野路子。这一野心恰好与人类历史上首次消费级数字视频（DV）设备与桌面剪辑软件普及的浪潮完美重合。2000年代初，普通人第一次可以买到数码摄像机和电脑独立剪辑。当时凯西的电脑硬盘只有区区 10 GB，素材存上 12 到 16 分钟就会把硬盘完全塞满。这种极度严苛的硬件瓶颈直接逼迫他必须制作节奏飞快、篇幅极短的微型视频。未经正规教育的野生视角加上设备极限的倒逼，最终孕育出他标志性的快节奏剪辑风格。 ### [44:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2650s) 警惕“野兽先生化”：原创的困境与平台的流水线模仿 当讨论转向原创性的价值与被模仿的宿命时，凯西表达了对当下视频创作环境的深切忧虑。原创者往往凭借冒着风险的突破性风格吸引大批拥趸，然而许多追随者却把对先锋的崇拜误当作自己的抱负，陷入了“只要复制凯西就能成功”的逻辑陷阱。凯西直言他极其厌恶当今 YouTube 上的“野兽先生化”（Mr. Beastification）风气。他特别强调，吉米（Jimmy Donaldson，即 MrBeast）本人是一个不折不扣的天才，创造了了不起的成就，但他无法控制成千上万创作者对他的机械复制。凯西对比了两人的核心驱动力：凯西将视频视为一种高度克制的思想表达工具，旨在把思考浓缩进 6 到 8 分钟的作品中与世界交流；而吉米从一开始就毫无保留地直奔“数据和商业成功”而去，将视频作为一无所有的年轻人逆风翻盘的终极杠杆。平台千篇一律地复制这种以算计流量为核心的模型，彻底抹杀了视频创作应有的独特性与多样性。 ### [45:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2756s) 追逐播放量的“竞相逐底”与 MrBeast 的帝国追求 凯西·奈斯塔特（Casey Neistat）探讨了顶流创作者吉米·唐纳森（Jimmy Donaldson，即 MrBeast）与普通模仿者之间的本质差异。吉米对自己的巧克力品牌 Feastables、慈善事业以及制作“住进百万豪宅是什么体验”的视频都怀有同等巨大的热情，因为吉米骨子里真正热爱的是“赢得胜利”与打造商业帝国。对吉米而言，这种目标极其纯粹而美丽。然而，公众却往往做出最粗暴、最片面的归纳，将当 YouTuber 简单等同于“播放量就是一切”。凯西直言，自己对这种唯播放量论“几乎不赋予任何价值，一点都不在乎”。 在凯西看来，很多人仅仅为了把播放量刷高而盲目跟风，这完全是一场“竞相逐底”（a race to the bottom），他甚至情绪激动地爆粗表示自己极其厌恶这种现象。人们之所以陷入这种怪圈，是因为他们不知道自己真正想做什么，于是便四处张望，寻找现成的成功模版并生搬硬套。凯西断言“这种模仿永远不会奏效”，真正的创作需要深度的自我内省：“不，我到底为什么要做这件事？什么对我来说是真实的？”无论随之而来的是成功还是失败，至少它是真实的。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 创作动机与成果对比 accDescr: 对比商业帝国驱动、真诚自我驱动以及盲目模仿刷数据三种创作者路径 subgraph TrueDrive["真实动机驱动"] direction TB A["MrBeast 模式<br/>骨子里热爱商业与扩张"] --> B["建立商业帝国<br/>Feastables / 慈善 / 现象级视频"] C["艺术表达模式<br/>追求内在真实与改变人心"] --> D["具有持久生命力的传世作品<br/>深远文化与精神影响力"] end subgraph HollowDrive["盲目模仿驱动"] direction TB E["迷失自我<br/>仅仅盯着播放量与点赞"] --> F["复制爆款套路<br/>低质快餐内容"] F --> G["竞相逐底<br/>泡沫破裂与内在空虚"] end ``` ### [47:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2826s) 为什么真实与艺术能经得起时间考验：从赫尔佐格到斯派克·琼斯 主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）顺势发问：如果一边是山寨他人套路、轻轻松松就能获取百万订阅的现成捷径，另一边则是毫无蓝图、无人做过、可能没人喜欢甚至连账单都付不起的“真实之路”，为何还要选择后者？凯西回答得斩钉截铁：“因为真实能够经受时间的考验，真实才真正重要。”他援引影史数据指出，过去 80 年间荣获奥斯卡最佳影片的电影与全球票房冠军几乎毫无关联，两者重合的情况在历史上仅发生过三四次，比如《乱世佳人》（Gone with the Wind）。这意味着人类文明与世界公认的最具质量、最有意义的伟大杰作，几乎从来不是最赚钱的商业大片。 凯西打趣道，《变形金刚 9》（Transformers 9）固然视觉震撼，但他根本不记得里面演了什么，“只依稀记得里面好像有一只恐龙”；相反，那些真正触动灵魂的作品——无论是维尔纳·赫尔佐格（Werner Herzog）执导的纪录片《小小迪特想要飞》（Little Dieter Needs to Fly），还是纪录片《金属精神》（Anvil: The Story of Anvil），哪怕过去五年没重温，他每天脑海里依然会回想起那些片段，这就是能长久流传的力量。他以一个 42 岁成年人的视角总结道，世上永远有垃圾食品，永远有人追逐狗血真人秀或转瞬即逝的当红流行歌手，但只有那些能把人唱哭、重塑灵魂的音乐家才会被永恒铭记。如果一个人自称是艺术家，“怎么可能还有其他目标？” 不仅如此，凯西再次重申了他对 MrBeast 的敬重，正是因为吉米从未伪装自己想当艺术家，吉米坦诚自己就是个用视频构建帝国的企业家，这份坦荡令人尊重。凯西随后深情回忆了导演斯派克·琼斯（Spike Jonze）早期为说唱歌手 Fatlip 拍摄的经典 MV《What's Up, Fatlip?》：当时穷困潦倒的 Fatlip 找到斯派克说自己没钱拍视频，两人便穿上小丑服、拿着一台老旧的 VHS 摄像机上街开拍。凯西童年时无数次反复观看这个古怪的录像带，正是那种纯粹为了做出一件杰作的赤诚，深深震撼了他，并彻底点燃了他的导演梦。凯西以此告诫后辈：如果你只想在社交平台上发那些陈词滥调的心灵鸡汤，不如退后一步，拿出真正能改变世界、震撼心灵的作品，而不是只做那些赚取点击率的“米老鼠式的垃圾玩意儿”。 - 过去 80 年奥斯卡最佳影片与最高票房重合次数极少，艺术高度与票房吸金能力在历史上长期脱节。 - 真正伟大的作品拥有穿透岁月的影响力，如同《金属精神》与斯派克·琼斯的 VHS 录像带 MV，具有改变人一生的力量。 ### [50:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3032s) 两种原创性先驱：MrBeast 的历史地位与不看数据的特权 史蒂芬指出，凯西和吉米两人都是先驱，但驱动力截然不同：凯西醉心于艺术形式与故事叙述的创作过程，而吉米则完全建立在数据洞察的基础之上，不过两人最终都创造出了无可比拟的独创性。凯西对此高度认同，并给出了极高的评价：他认为吉米不仅是“YouTube 历史上最重要的创作者”，甚至毫无疑问是“整个娱乐产业历史上最重要的人物之一”。吉米建立的帝国受众规模空前绝后，未来甚至会被写入哈佛商学院的经典教学案例中。 当被问及“你现在还在乎播放量吗”时，凯西坦承自己已经不在意了，但他随即清醒地补充道，能说出这句话本身就是一种巨大的特权。现在的他不再需要为下个月的房租发愁，去餐厅点餐也早已无需先看菜单价格，处于极高的财务安全感之中。他坦白承认，在自己年轻、尚未立足的时期，播放量和数据确实曾无比重要；但随着年龄的增长和经济条件的独立，他终于能够把全部重心转移到“打磨真正优秀的作品”上。 ### [52:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3120s) 当女儿说想当 YouTuber：名气毒性、内在动机与家庭定格动画 这种关于名利与创作的思考也深刻投射到了凯西的家庭育儿中。当他年仅 8 岁的小女儿弗朗辛（Francine，昵称 Frannie）兴致勃勃地表示也想当一名 YouTuber 并渴望获得订阅与播放量时，凯西立刻陷入了深思与警惕。凯西告诉女儿：“弗朗妮，你想做什么内容都可以，但你绝对不能公开发布出去。”面对女儿的不解，凯西试图向一个 8 岁孩子解释：创作必须出于自我内心的渴望，而不是为了追逐外界的虚荣认可（external validation）。妻子坎迪斯（Candice）常常在一旁提醒凯西别过度理性化、小题大做：“放轻松点，凯西，她才 8 岁，让她安安静静吃完通心粉吧。” 但凯西严肃地剖析了背后的担忧：如果女儿是因为热爱艺术创作，他愿意放下手头的一切全力支持；但如果只是因为学校里的小伙伴发了视频拿到 35 个赞、她想比别人拿更多赞，那就必须立刻踩刹车。甚至如果女儿说出“我想超越 MrBeast”，他同样会感到紧张并追问其初衷。凯西警告道，名气（fame）是一种极其诡异的东西，未曾体验过名利场的人永远无法理解身处其中的危险。如果名气只是专注做事的副产品，那无可厚非；但如果将成名本身当成终极目标，人就会沦为那种因过度整容而面目全非的劣质真人秀明星，纯粹陷入自恋与虚荣的泥潭，对世界毫无实质贡献。 在现实生活中，凯西对女儿真正纯粹的创造力给予了悉心保护与全力支持： - 弗朗辛其实极具创意天赋，自己用毛绒玩具制作了一整套精彩幽默的定格动画（Stop-motion animation）。 - 凯西与女儿严格约定了隐私与安全红线：视频中绝对不允许出现女儿本人的声音、正脸或双手，拍摄背景也严禁透露出他们公寓的具体环境。 - 夫妻俩为女儿购买了全套制作设备，并把整个家庭作为专属观众，拍摄好的短片仅在内部的家庭 iMessage 群组里分享播放，让孩子在不受互联网流量算法侵蚀的环境下，纯粹享受创作本身的乐趣。 ### [55:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3327s) 保护孩子远离社交媒体的虚荣指标 Casey 谈及如何保护自己的孩子远离社交网络的侵害。他的小女儿 Francine 有一个关注者数量为零的私密 Instagram 账号，连他和妻子 Candice 都没有关注。夫妻俩如果想看女儿发的内容，只会把手机递来递去互相翻看，绝不点关注或点赞。Casey 解释道，他们根本不希望女儿把“收获点赞”当成创作或分享的动机，哪怕那个赞来自亲生父母也不行。有一次他的姐姐发信息说：“你发了 Francine 的 TikTok 视频录屏，能把她的账号推给我吗？” Casey 和妻子当场拒绝。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 社交媒体对青少年心理健康的冲击 accDescr: 社交平台的点赞与数据指标导致心理健康危机，促使父母构建保护屏障隔离外部评价。 subgraph Trap["外界数字陷阱"] A["点赞与播放量指标"] --> B["心理健康危机 / 进食障碍"] B --> C["外界评价主导自我价值"] end subgraph Defense["Casey 的育儿防御策略"] D["设立 0 关注者账号"] --> E["父母拒绝关注与点赞"] E --> F["切断正反馈回路，远离虚荣指标"] end Defense -.->|阻隔| Trap ``` Steven 询问 Casey 自己是否也曾深陷这种“寻求外界认可”的泥潭。Casey 坦言确实有过，但他指出自己与当今年轻人有一个本质区别：他在接触 Instagram 时已经是心智完全成熟的成年人了。如今成千上万的八岁儿童正成长在算法与点赞织就的世界里，社交媒体直接引发了青少年的心理危机、进食障碍与严重的焦虑问题。保护孩子免受虚荣指标的侵蚀，不单是一个深谙网络机制的创作者的本能，也是每一位父母都应筑起的防线。Casey 庆幸自己在踏入社交平台之前，已经在传统媒体领域摸爬滚打了 15 年，这种成熟与阅历让他在面对流量时保持了难得的清醒。 ### [57:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3434s) 从传统电视到 YouTube：寻找真正的表达媒介 回顾职业生涯的转折点，Casey 毫无保留地承认：Daily Vlog（每日生活记录视频）正是他实现爆发式增长的绝对催化剂。早在此之前，他和哥哥 Van Neistat 曾制作过一部电视连续剧，并在 2008 年以 200 万美元的高价卖给了 HBO。那部电视剧共 8 集，每集约 22 到 24 分钟。Casey 指出，如果现在回去看那部 HBO 剧集，其剪辑节奏、叙事语言和内核与后来的 Daily Vlog 完全是一模一样的产物。然而在 2008 年，YouTube 刚成立不久（2006 年前后上线），当时人们只把它当做看“查理咬我手指”或篮球集锦的地方，主流视频平台根本不存在。HBO 虽然给出了极高的专业评价，但播出时间被安排在周五深夜零点，几乎没有引发任何大众反响。 兄弟俩分道扬镳后，Van 去了加州，独自留在纽约的 Casey 仍想延续这种叙事方式。他带着样片去跟 MTV 的高层开会，MTV 的多位高管看后叹为观止，直言“这是我们见过的最具开创性的东西，太棒了”，但紧接着给出的结论却是：“我们不确定这东西能在电视机上播。”面对传统电视网络的闭门羹，Casey 决定将内容直接搬到 YouTube 上去，亲自验证这种新形式的生命力。 ### [58:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3518s) 八年积累与 18 个月爆发：复利效应与日更的力量 在开启每日 Vlog 之前，Casey 按常规标准已经算是一名非常成功的 YouTuber。从 2007 年入驻到 2014/2015 年前后，他花费了将近八年时间积累了 28 万订阅者，期间有过几部播放量突破五百万甚至上千万的全网爆款，常规视频也能轻松获得五六万次观看，甚至《纽约时报》也主动找他合作拍摄视频短片。然而，当他在 2015 年正式启动 Daily Vlog 之后，奇迹发生了：他仅用了约 18 个月的时间，订阅量就从不足 30 万飙升到了 1000 万。 | 发展阶段 | 耗费时间 | 订阅规模 / 播放表现 | 外部合作与平台环境 | |:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **早期传统探索期**（2007–2015） | 约 8 年 | 约 28 万订阅者；偶尔出现 500 万–1000 万爆款，常规 5–6 万 | 卖剧给 HBO、为《纽约时报》和 Nike 拍摄视频 | | **Daily Vlog 爆发期**（2015–2016） | 约 18 个月 | 订阅数从 28 万激增至 1000 万；月播放量破亿 | 每日更新的高制作规格建立极强粉丝黏性，商业价值全面井喷 | 面对这种指数级爆发，Casey 总结道，这并非因为他在技巧上突飞猛进，而是“持续的耐心”终于遇上了风口。在此前的 15 年里，他就像是在拿着一根“方榫”试图硬塞进几千个“圆孔”中，屡屡碰壁；直到 2015 年，属于 YouTube 的时代终于全面成熟——第一代伴随视频网站长大的年轻观众已经形成习惯，但平台上依然充斥着粗制滥造的内容，没有任何人能拿出专业水准的高规格短视频。Casey 带着 15 年来千锤百炼的电影制作与短片技巧降临 YouTube，并且以“日更”这种不可思议的频率轰炸市场： - **第 1 天**：观众看到一个长相奇特的人在纽约滑板穿行、和妻子共进午餐，只觉得挺新奇； - **第 7 天**：观众开始习惯这个人的生活陪伴； - **第 300 天**：Casey 已经彻底融入了观众的日常生活，形成了无与伦比的情感羁绊。 这种飞轮效应在各个层面引发滚雪球式的连锁反应：算法持续狂推带来流量激增；按千次播放收益计费的广告分成在月播放量破亿后变成了庞大的巨款；以前百家广告代理商里可能只有一位创意总监看过他的作品，如今每位高管都成为了他的忠实观众，全球顶级品牌的商业合作纷至沓来。 ### [01:02:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3734s) 欠债二十万刀的成功者：前往麻省理工学院 很多人将这种转折轻描淡写地归结为“运气”，Casey 坦然接受这个说法，但引用了那句经典名言：“所谓运气，就是充分的准备遇到了恰逢其时的机会（Luck is where preparation meets opportunity）。”在风口到来之前的整整 15 年里，他一直在磨砺手艺。 Casey 揭露了一个极具戏剧性的事实：在 2015 年开启 Vlog 事业的当下，从履历上看他早已功成名就——HBO 曾斥资 200 万美元收购他的作品，他参与制作的两部电影入围过戛纳电影节（Cannes Film Festival），他斩获过独立精神奖（Independent Spirit Awards）的约翰·卡萨维蒂奖（Cassavetes Award），为 Nike 制作广告，拥有独立工作室并自主创业 12 年。然而，正是这样一位在外界看来光鲜亮丽的导演，当时却背负着整整 **20 万美元的巨额债务**，财务状况甚至比当年领政府救济金抚养儿子时更加拮据惨淡。 正是为了寻求破局，在前一年，没有高中文凭的 Casey 获邀成为麻省理工学院（MIT）媒体实验室（Media Lab）的访问研究员（Fellow）。对一个高中辍学生而言，被全球顶尖学府接纳是莫大的殊荣。在那个由 8 到 10 名技术专家、1 位画家组成的“社会计算小组（Social Computing Group）”中，Casey 始终觉得自己是个格格不入的旁观者，甚至至今都说不清自己当时为何会被选上。但正是在 MIT 的那段沉淀与观察期，让他下定决心彻底告别过去靠给品牌拍商业广告的营生，酝酿一场彻底重塑自己人生的全新冒险。 ### [01:04:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3883s) 《孵化推特》、MIT 之行与创立科技公司的冲动 在麻省理工学院（MIT）媒体实验室期间，凯西没有被布置任何硬性任务，整天只是在一旁观察。当时他在波士顿独自生活，没有朋友，而怀着孕的妻子坎迪斯（Candice）孤身留在纽约，心里埋怨凯西抛下她跑去外地。凯西当时满脑子都在思考下一步该做什么，就在那时，他读到了尼克·比尔顿（Nick Bilton，后来成为了他的好友）写的《孵化推特》（*Hatching Twitter*）。这本书向他揭开了科技初创公司内部的混乱与疯狂。凯西发现，虽然推特的几位创始人都非常聪明，但他们并不是遥不可及的天才；世上有普通人，有聪明人，也有无法产生共鸣的绝顶天才，而凯西觉得自己介于普通人和聪明人之间。在他看来，推特的创始人们不过是一群怀抱野心、坚持不懈的聪明人罢了，他忍不住想：“他们能做到的事，我也一样能做。” 离开 MIT 后，凯西下定决心要创办一家科技公司，尽管他当时根本不知道那具体意味着什么。在 MIT 的整个期间，他没有任何收入，全靠刷信用卡和背负债务度日，公司在大通银行（Chase Bank）的循环信用额度也被彻底刷爆。他所谓的“开公司”，最初不过是四处找人开会，到处宣称自己要创业。仅仅六个月后，凯西就背上了 20 万美元的巨额债务，甚至连向怀孕妻子分摊的一半房租都掏不出来。正是在这种极端窘境下，他不仅创立了科技公司（Beme），还开启了每日更新的 Vlog（Daily Vlog）。 - **债务危机**：全靠信用卡维持生活，大通银行循环信用额度透支，六个月内负债高达 20 万美元。 - **家庭压力**：妻子坎迪斯处于孕期，独自在纽约生活，凯西甚至无法支付自己那部分房租。 - **《孵化推特》的启示**：打破了对硅谷创业的神话崇拜，让凯西意识到初创企业内部也是混乱不堪，普通人通过毅力与执行力也能做到。 --- ### [01:06:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=3986s) 归零重来的执念与亿万富翁的梦想 凯西回顾了自己为何总在看似功成名就时选择彻底推倒重来。他之前已经在影视制作和商业领域取得了巨大成功，知道如果不想继续解眼前的难题，走廊尽头随时有现成的“零食”可吃。然而他骨子里的性格却是“去他的，让我把它烧成灰烬吧”——宁愿背负 20 万美元债务，也要扎进一个自己从未涉足过的软件开发领域，哪怕他这辈子从来没有写过一行代码。史蒂文问他当时究竟在想什么，凯西坦言自己也不确定，只是当时觉得这主意棒极了。 当时凯西大约 30 到 35 岁，硅谷的创业领袖在他眼中宛如超级巨星。电影《社交网络》（*The Social Network*）中有一个镜头深深震撼了他：一边是马克·扎克伯格（Mark Zuckerberg）独自坐在哈佛宿舍里专注地敲代码，另一边是学校里最酷的学生坐上大巴去参加满是漂亮女孩的狂欢派对——凯西心里渴望成为扎克伯格那样的人。此外，金钱也是直接的驱动力。虽然当年 HBO 买下他和哥哥范（Van Neistat）的节目支付了 200 万美元，但这笔钱交完税只剩 100 万美元，还掉投资人的钱后剩 40 万美元，两兄弟平分，凯西到手仅剩 20 万美元。分摊到耗费的三年时间里，收入仅仅相当于普通中产阶层，根本算不上富有。凯西毫不掩饰当年的野心：“我想变富有，我想成为亿万富翁，创立一家科技公司就是我的实现路径。” --- ### [01:07:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4073s) 何谓“不合格”：在动手实践中弥补差距 史蒂文指出，纵观凯西的整个人生履历，他似乎总在做着从客观标准来看自己“完全不合格”的事情：没有受过正规高等教育却闯入电影行业，从没写过一行代码却去创办科技公司。大多数人习惯在心理上先给自己贴标签，从而劝退自己、取消自己的资格；凯西却截然相反，总是认为自己能够胜任看似毫无资格做的事。凯西分享了他前一晚与妻子坎迪斯的探讨：他们该如何教育两个年幼的女儿，让她们相信自己能做成任何事？凯西感叹，如果孩子是儿子，他很清楚该怎么做——逼他们用双手劳动。这是他对大儿子的一大遗憾；如今 25 岁的大儿子非常优秀，但由于热爱学术，凯西当时便由着他深造，凯西现在回想，真希望当年能更强硬地推儿子一把，逼他学会用双手干体力活。 凯西提到了《南方公园》（*South Park*）的一集特别篇：未来世界里，能修理抽水马桶的蓝领修理工都成了亿万富翁，而高学历的知识分子却只能站在家得宝（Home Depot）门外举牌求职，哀叹为什么当年没人告诉自己去学门手艺。在凯西看来，亲手创造和修理东西能让人领悟到世界与人性的普遍规律。这也契合他的人生信条：“如果你不知道自己一生想做什么，就先去做一件你讨厌的事；在这个过程中，你自然会明白自己热爱什么。”凯西就是在康涅狄格州那家糟糕的海鲜餐厅里，在夏季高达 90 华氏度（约 32 摄氏度）、臭气熏天的后厨连续洗了 40 到 50 个小时的海鲜浓汤锅，极度厌恶这份苦役的同时，才无比清晰地意识到自己渴望成为一名电影制作人。 史蒂文进一步剖析，这种通过双手解决现实问题的经历，其实塑造了凯西的核心超能力。凯西小时候自行车坏了，家里没有现成的维修工具，他必须先亲手造出一件工具，再用它修好车子。他本没有资格，但他创造了资格。这种童年体验让凯西在极早的时候就建立了一种不可动摇的信念：无论现状与目标之间有多大差距（the gap），凯西都有能力靠自己缩短并跨越这个差距。多数人一生都未能建立这种“证据”，总觉得自己缺乏技能、缺乏资金而画地为牢；但凯西通过一次次修好自行车、洗净汤锅，积累了跨越鸿沟的强大行动力。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 弥合差距的认知形成路径 accDescr: 展示凯西通过童年修车和后厨苦工建立起极高主动性，并迁移至创业实践的心理逻辑 subgraph EarlyExperience["早期现实经验"] A["缺少修车工具"] --> B["亲手打造工具并修好自行车"] C["后厨刷洗浓汤锅的厌恶感"] --> D["明确真正热爱电影制作"] end subgraph MentalShift["心智模式沉淀"] B & D --> E["形成事实证据：<br/>我能亲手解决问题并弥合差距"] E --> F["打破资质限制<br/>（拒绝自我否定）"] end subgraph Action["后续跨界行动"] F --> G["无科班背景进入影视制作"] F --> H["零代码基础创办科技公司 Beme"] end ``` --- ### [01:11:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4311s) 高主动性人格（High Agency）与突发危机考验 谈到解决问题的能力，史蒂文提到他的前员工、著名内容创作者乔治·马克（George Mack）近期发布的一条热门推文，主题是“如何识别高主动性人格（High Agency Individual）”。推文里提出了一个经典的“黄金问题”：“如果你被关在泰国监狱里，你会打电话给谁来救你越狱？”这种特质指的就是面对棘手困境时，不被规则束缚、千方百计寻找破局办法的人。 凯西对此深有感触，并分享了一件亲身经历。最近，一位与他关系极其亲近的密友遭遇了极度恐慌的突发状况：这位朋友在距离凯西数千英里外的地方突然找不到自己的妻子，极度惊慌之下，他坚信妻子被绑架了。在不知所措的绝境中，朋友在第一时间拨通了凯西的电话，带着哭腔求助：“我该怎么办？”凯西立刻进入危机应对状态，沉着地要求对方：“把你知道的所有信息全部告诉我。”在听完初步叙述后，凯西认为细节远远不够，开始像侦探一样连珠炮般抛出关键问题并迅速用笔记录。当问到朋友当前在做什么时，朋友慌乱地回答自己正开车前往警察局；凯西立刻严厉制止了他：“绝对不要去警察局，听我说，警方遇到这种情况会怎么处理……”他随即开始为这位朋友全面接管并拆解这场危机。 ### [01:13:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4382s) “这绝不会因我而失败”：极端的主人翁精神 面对突如其来的危机，Casey Neistat 展现出一种高度自决的行动逻辑。在指导对方排查线索时，他有条不紊地给出一连串极具执行力的指令：“查银行账单，看她最后一笔消费是在什么时候；弄清楚她 iCloud 账户的密码是什么。”在挂断电话后，他脑海中根本没有“找别人来解决”的念头。他想到了洛克希德·马丁（Lockheed Martin）或 NASA 墙上写着的那句足有百英尺高的警示语——“这绝不会因我而失败”（It won't fail because of me）。在那一刻，他坚信自己是唯一能摆平这件事的人。 果不其然，短短 11 分钟后，犹如电影《谍影重重》（Jason Bourne）里的特工一般，Casey 再次打去电话，准确告知：“她在网球俱乐部，正躺在沙发上睡着了。”这次迅速破局得益于他当美国空军喷气式战机飞行员的弟弟 Dean 的协助。但整件事最触动 Casey 的，是对方在电话中流露出的全盘迷茫与无助——本能地认为必须依赖某种“更高权威”才能解决问题。而在 Casey 的世界观里，压根不存在什么更高权威：“没有人能比此刻的我解决得更好。”这种根深蒂固的心态，贯穿了他的一生。 随后，Casey 回忆起年轻拮据时的一段往事。当时他开着一辆 1986 年产的沃尔沃 240（Volvo 240），那款车配有经典的双卤素大灯。车头被撞坏后，保险公司定损赔了大约 2200 美元现金。孩子的母亲质疑他根本不懂修车，他却反问：“这到底能有多难？”他毅然拆下整个车头，花 150 美元买来车灯配件，硬生生把车装了回去。虽然修得谈不上完美，但“足够能开”，还省下了一大笔钱。包括在录制播客前，被问及最近在忙什么，他回答正在工作室里给女儿们亲手搭树屋——他从未想过去雇木匠，因为他始终信奉同一种态度：“只要给我足够多的巴尔沙木（轻木）和足够的时间，我连宇宙飞船都能造出来。” --- ### [01:15:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4535s) 3600 万美元收购背后的百万次失败与创伤 这种“能有多难”的无畏信念虽然推动了许多创举，却也夹杂着盲目的天真。谈到创办科技软件公司 Beme 时，Casey 直言：“如果我当时知道现在所了解的一切，我绝对不会去碰软件开发公司，绝无可能。”尽管 Beme 最终以约 3600 万美元的价格被收购，在外界看来是不可思议的商业胜利，但 Casey 坦言，这唯一的成功背后是上百万次的失败，而正是这些失败常常让他夜不能寐。 当时公司资金早已耗尽，他和联合创始人 Matt 在最后一年双双停发薪水，最后几笔员工工资甚至是他自掏腰包垫付的。在收购协议中，Casey 极力争取到了一项条款：所有持有股权的员工都能在交易完成时立即获得全额现金变现，并且所有人都能保留工作。Casey 原以为宣布这一消息时全员会欢呼雀跃，现实却泼了一盆冷水——员工们感到极其失望。他们加入初创公司是为了与 Casey 一起开拓未知的酷事业，为此甚至放弃了去 Facebook 拿双倍薪资的机会，而现在他们却不得不转头去大体制内打工。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Beme 收购后的期望与现实冲突 accDescr: 展现 Casey Neistat 将 Beme 卖给 CNN 时，创始人预期与团队实际感受之间的巨大落差。 subgraph FounderIntent["创始人的预期"] A["公司资金耗尽 / 垫付工资"] --> B["达成 3600 万美元收购协议"] B --> C["全员留用 + 股权即刻全额现金套现"] C --> D["预期：团队欢呼、皆大欢喜"] end subgraph RealityGap["现实的冲突与创伤"] D -.->|现实残酷反差| E["员工感受：倍感失望"] E --> F["放弃大厂高薪是为了与 Casey 一起创业"] F --> G["最终却沦为大型传媒公司的螺丝钉"] G --> H["Casey 心理创伤：自责辜负托举自己登顶的伙伴"] end ``` 这种心理落差给 Casey 留下了深重的管理创伤。他觉得自己背叛了那些一路托举他走向成功的伙伴：“我拿到了巨额支票，变成了百万富翁，但我辜负了把我和公司托举起来的人。”时至今日，他彻底走向了另一个极端： - **零员工状态**：不招任何助理，没有日程管理员，完全一个人打理日常。 - **失联与亲力亲为**：不查邮件，甚至需要制片人辗转联系共同朋友确认他是否会如约出席播客录制；他选择“自己拖地”，哪怕可能错过预约，也不愿再次承担管理 35 名员工并让他们失望的精神压力。 --- ### [01:18:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4695s) 入驻 CNN：从狂妄自大到黯然出局 公司被 CNN（Turner）收购当天，Casey 兴奋地向包括 Gary Vaynerchuk 在内的投资人们报喜，沉浸在冲过终点线的狂喜中。他和合伙人 Matt 签署了一份为期三年的任职合同，然而仅仅过了 11 个月，他们就被 CNN 解雇。 回头审视那段历程，Casey 承认被收购一个月后的自己正处于“傲慢的顶峰”（peak hubris），自以为无所不知。当时 CNN 表现出很大的策略开放度，Casey 误将其理解为“大公司的战略模糊”，而实际上是管理层在期待他站出来领航，但他缺乏这种大企业体系内的领导意识。CNN 斥巨资收购，既看中团队的工程技术与技术合伙人的才华，更看重 Casey 个人的庞大影响力。然而双方的冲突很快显现：CNN 试图以传统商业套路变现他的影响力，比如塞给他一份价值百万美元的手表广告代言，被 Casey 果断拒绝，他怒斥这是“米老鼠式的狗屁玩意儿”（stupid Mickey Mouse shit），根本不是他合作的初衷。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Casey Neistat 在 CNN 的 11 个月演变历程 accDescr: 展现 Casey Neistat 从收购之初的极度膨胀到最终心力交瘁出局的心态演变。 A["收购完成<br>（第 1 天）<br>跨过终点线的高光与狂喜"] --> B["入驻初期<br>（第 1 个月）<br>傲慢顶峰：自认全能、无所不能"] B --> C["理念冲突与认知脱节<br>抵制商业变现 / 未能承担引领责任"] C --> D["解雇出局<br>（第 11 个月）<br>心力交瘁、只想彻底逃离"] ``` 当主持人 Steven Bartlett 提出“像你这样的人本来就不属于 CNN”时，Casey 并不认同这种开脱之词。他反驳道，当年自己怀揣着“既然我能修好沃尔沃，我就能在 CNN 搞成一家牛逼公司”的蛮劲，而且 CNN 给出的激励机制无比丰厚，共事的人也极其优秀。他直面自己的不足，拒绝将失败甩锅给“大企业官僚扼杀初创文化”： > “我们在 CNN 旗帜下没有取得成功的真正原因，是因为我，完全是因为我……是我没能看清机会并在体系内把它做出来。我把这归咎于我自己的虚荣自负与天真幼稚。” 从最初跨过终点线时的自命不凡，到 11 个月后被解聘，Casey 剩下的只有无尽的精疲力竭，只想尽快从这种消耗中彻底抽身。 ### [01:21:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4901s) Beme的终局与CNN的解约会面 当CNN最终决定关停Beme时，整个过程显得格外微妙而荒诞。当时Casey正陪家人在南非度假，管理层此前承诺会在年底前给出明确答复。12月31日当天，Casey主动致电他在CNN的直属上级询问进展：“这家公司到底怎么样了？你们是要关停我们，还是让我们继续做下去？”对方给出的答复是：“等你们回纽约再当面谈。” 回到纽约后，管理层提出在一个“中立地点”会面，而不是在双方任何一方的办公室里。在人力资源负责人的陪同下，管理层正式通知他们：公司决定终止项目并解除双方的雇佣协议。出乎意料的是，Casey面对这一决定表现得异常平静，甚至长舒了一口气。他内心早有预感，这件事对他而言没有引起剧烈的波澜，反而像卸下了一副重担。 ### [01:22:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4946s) 登顶后的至暗时刻：成名带来的恐惧与虚无 随着CNN的退场与日常Vlog的停更，Casey不仅没有迎来解脱，反而坠入了一段意想不到的至暗时光。在外界看来，他已经彻底登顶：他实现了儿时所有的愿望清单，卖掉了科技公司，坐拥两年来累计超过30亿次的视频播放量，在影视创作领域名声大噪。然而，正是在走出那场中立地点的HR会面后，内心的深渊开始显现。 这种痛苦并非源于外部受挫，而是对爆炸性名声的极度不适。Casey强调，他的成名与其他好莱坞明星截然不同： - **无法剥离的真实自我**：演员布拉德·皮特（Brad Pitt）在《搏击俱乐部》（*Fight Club*）中饰演泰勒·德顿（Tyler Durden），但现实中的他并不是泰勒；而Casey在镜头前没有戴面具、没有穿超人戏服，他展现的就是纯粹的自己。粉丝在街头偶遇他时，认定自己了解的就是真实的他。 - **失控的日常安全感**：名声的狂暴程度令人窒息，他与家人不得不搬进纽约安保更严格的公寓大楼。即使在街头，他也会像贾斯汀·比伯（Justin Bieber）一样被人群围堵得水泄不通，连工作室都不敢涉足。 更深层的虚无感来自于对“胜利”的认知崩塌。Casey过去一直坚信“胜利等于幸福与满足感”。作为一个曾经连婴儿尿布都买不起的穷小子，他如今靠视频与创业换来了只要合理规划就能维持一生的财务自由；作为一个当年开着破车到处分发录像带的独立创作者，他坐拥海量受众。但他发现站在山顶上并没有欣喜，只有无尽的茫然：“难道这就是全部？接下来该做什么？”他比喻自己像跑完了24场马拉松，却根本不知道奖牌被随手丢在哪里，因为他真正享受的是奔跑本身，而当比赛被宣告终结，内心的支柱轰然倒塌。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Casey登顶后的心理反差与虚无路径 accDescr: 展示Casey从实现财务自由与巨大名声到陷入精神虚无的过程 subgraph Achievements ["世俗意义的终极成功"] A["卖掉Beme / 获得终生财务安全"] B["2年内斩获30亿播放量"] end subgraph Crisis ["现实困境与心理落差"] C["失去隐私：像贾斯汀·比伯般被围堵"] D["奔跑终止：日常Vlog停更，CNN项目终止"] end subgraph Collapse ["心理反转与迷茫"] E["认知错位：原以为胜利等于幸福"] F["至暗虚无：'站在山顶，但这不是我想要的'"] end Achievements --> Crisis Crisis --> Collapse ``` ### [01:25:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5143s) 躲避与逃离：移居洛杉矶与对婚姻的冲击 在那段迷茫的日子里，Casey的大部分时间都在家中消磨度日。CNN收购Beme带来的财富让他住进了豪华漂亮的居所，妻子Candice还给家里选购了昂贵考究的壁纸。但在那扇精致的大门内，Casey只是守着襁褓中的小婴儿和三岁的大女儿，过着隐蔽甚至接近“藏匿”的生活。期间他虽然与合伙人Paul尝试推进创意空间368（Broadway 368），并与好友Dan（Dan Mace）启动过新的日更节目，但内心始终无法摆脱失重感。 为了彻底摆脱纽约无孔不入的关注，他和妻子仓促决定举家迁往洛杉矶： - **不切实际的幻想**：Casey在脑海中将洛杉矶想象成了遥远无人问津的“月球”，幻想着搬过去后可以每天去海边散步放空，再也没有人认识自己。 - **现实的落差**：从做出决定到真正启程的7个月里，他一直处于躲避外界的等待状态。事实证明，为期三年的洛杉矶定居经历是一场不折不扣的灾难，最终一家人还是搬回了纽约。 与此同时，这种窒息的名气对婚姻造成了巨大冲击。Casey的日常Vlog创作逻辑就像一台吸尘器，距离他生活最近的事物都会被无情地卷入镜头之中。Candice作为伴侣和挚友，不可避免地频繁暴露在聚光灯下。虽然这种曝光让Candice作为独立珠宝设计师的才华得到了认可、助力了她的商业品牌，但在多数未做充分准备的情况下被推至公众面前，让夫妻关系承受了极其严峻的心理重压。 ### [01:28:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5288s) 赞助播报与未来十年的电影意象 在探讨人生的下一章节之前，节目插播了由Steven Bartlett呈现的商业赞助内容： - **Whoop**：Steven介绍了他手腕上全天候佩戴的健康追踪设备，强调其在睡眠优化、身体恢复与整体健康指导方面的突破性帮助，并为播客社区提供了专属优惠链接（`join.whoop.com/ceo`）。 - **Huel**：针对在英国与美国之间高频跨国出差、电视节目录制等极端忙碌的生活节奏，Steven分享了他作为投资人与重度用户如何通过Huel保证营养摄入的完整性与健康。 当话题回到Casey的未来规划时，Steven提问：“如果将你接下来的十年人生比作一部电影，它的叙事主线会是什么？” Casey坦言自己给不出传统的剧情大纲，反而联想到了1982年的经典实验纪录片《机械生活》（*Koyaanisqatsi*）。他笑着解释道，那部电影根本没有任何传统故事脉络或戏剧冲突，通篇由宏伟震撼的城市空镜头配上奇异深邃的极简音乐构成，从叙事角度看“什么都没发生”。 “这就是我对自己目前生活的感受，”Casey说道。摆脱了日更奔命与创业泥潭后，人生不再需要急于冲过终点线去证明什么，虽然表面看似“什么都没做”，但这种平静、开阔的状态本身就极其美丽与美妙。 ### [01:30:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5405s) 放缓脚步的生活节奏与内心的自责 Casey 坦诚地描述了他目前的生活状态，这种状态伴随着一种内疚感。虽然他偶尔还会接一些商业拍摄项目，并且每次都全力以赴、交出出色的成果，但他内心总觉得自己是在“出卖原则（selling out）”。尽管他依然需要赚钱养家，也能赚到钱，但他清楚自己目前很大程度上只是在消耗并依赖多年前积累起来的势头与影响力。如今，他的日常生活重心完全转移到了家庭上：每天下午四点半左右，他便会急匆匆地从工作室赶回家，只为了能在孩子们放学进门时守候在家中。对他而言，陪伴孩子就是他最喜欢的事情，哪怕有人邀请他去参加昂贵的晚宴甚至 Met Gala（纽约大都会艺术博物馆慈善晚宴），他都会毫不犹豫地拒绝。 他的日常作息简单得令人难以置信：傍晚陪孩子们玩耍，等孩子们七点半或八点上床睡觉后，他去健身房锻炼一小时，回家跟妻子 Candice 打闹闲聊一会儿，看会儿电视然后睡觉。白天在工作室里，他把那里当成自己的“俱乐部”，做做木工、摆弄摆弄工具、随意做些手工，然后回家告诉妻子自己今天工作很辛苦。从圣诞节走亲访友，到夏天带全家去海边度假，Casey 形容自己现在纯粹是在“漫无目的地享受生活（coasting through life）”，这种状态虽然让他感到平静且棒极了，但他也清醒地意识到这种生活绝不可持续。如果继续这样下去，他开玩笑说自己三年内就会破产；更重要的是，作为一名创作者，只有亲手做出自认为优秀的作品，才能带给他生命中最核心的充实感。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Casey 当前日常生活的循环模式 accDescr: 展示 Casey 从白天工作室闲逛、下午陪伴家人，到夜晚家庭时光与自责心理的循环。 subgraph DayTime["白天：低压与放纵"] Studio["工作室消磨时间<br/>（做木工、整理工具）"] HomeEarly["下午 4:30 准时回家"] end subgraph Evening["傍晚与夜晚：家庭重心"] FamilyTime["陪伴孩子玩耍<br/>（推掉所有社交晚宴）"] Bedtime["孩子入睡后<br/>健身、陪伴妻子、看电视"] end subgraph Mental["内心冲突"] Guilt["内疚与反思<br/>（依赖过去势头，不可持续）"] end Studio --> HomeEarly HomeEarly --> FamilyTime FamilyTime --> Bedtime Bedtime -.-> Guilt Guilt -.-> Studio ``` - **家庭与健康支柱**：Casey 将人生比作一个饼图，他认为自己是个好父亲、好丈夫，并且极其重视身体健康和体能锻炼；但饼图最大的那块依然是他的职业与创作生涯。 - **创作带来的满足感**：他提到最近为岳母 70 岁大寿制作视频的经历。岳母原本只想要一个用简易软件把照片拼在一起的幻灯片，但他精心剪辑成了一部极具水准的片子，并在生日聚会上放给老太太们看。尽管这支视频没有任何公开播放量，却带给他久违的内心满足。 - **对比与现状**：Casey 自嘲现在的创作状态就如同本该去健身房却在吃垃圾食品、本该去慢跑却窝在沙发上一样，来到工作室后不是埋头创作，而是整天摆弄整理工具。 --- ### [01:33:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5588s) 拒绝借口：不是创作者的冬眠，而是纯粹的放纵 Steven Bartlett 提出了许多创意工作者常有的观点：创作往往需要经历不同的“季节”与“章节”，偶尔的无所事事或“无聊”其实是在为下一个伟大项目积蓄能量，让人能退后一步看清全貌，甚至从孩子的童言稚语中汲取灵感。Casey 曾经连续 800 天每天更新一期 Vlog，同时还要管理一家拥有 38 名员工的科技公司，家里还有刚出生的婴儿，长达三年几乎没有睡过好觉，时时刻刻暴露在数百万观众的目光之下。从常理来看，天平从极度紧绷摆向如今的极度放松、给自己一段减压时间是完全合情合理的。 然而，Casey 极为严厉地拒绝了这种看似合理的安慰。他直言，如果接受这种说法，就是在为自己当下的懒惰和散漫寻找借口。他清醒地指出，自己现在之所以能这样闲散，不是因为生理或心理上“需要”，纯粹是因为他现在“负担得起”。如果他现在身无分文，或者孩子们在挨饿，他绝对会拼了命去工作。他用了一个生动的比喻：自己之所以不再努力解开人生的拼图谜题，只是因为走廊尽头摆满了触手可及的零食。他承认这种生活是“彻底的放纵（pure indulgence）”，并且直面这种特权，毫无粉饰。 --- ### [01:34:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5688s) 创作特权与未来的计划 当被问及无数狂热粉丝最关心的“Casey 下一步究竟要做什么”时，Casey 给出了非常明确却又充满自我拉扯的回答。他在手机备忘录里写满了大大小小 25 部自编的“电影”（对他而言即高水准的 YouTube 视频），有的深刻、有的轻快，有的只需拍摄一天，有的需要打磨剧本三周。他内心真正想做的事极其单纯：每天独自去工作室，把这些片子制作出来并上传到 YouTube，完全不理会任何外部反馈。 为了回归纯粹的创作状态，他已经删除了手机上的 YouTube Studio 应用程序，不再查看评论、播放量或 AdSense 广告收入，只想体验点下“上传”按钮后立刻转身投入下一部作品的感觉。Steven 指出，能够毫无生存压力、完全随心所欲地创作且不在乎播放量，这本身就是“终极的特权”。Casey 苦笑着承认，自己之所以一再拖延、迟迟没有动手，最尴尬也最真实的理由正是因为他“没有非做不可的生存压力”。 - **粉丝的期待与动摇**：Steven 提到播客的联合制作人兼导演 Jack Sylvester 正是因为看了 Casey 的视频才入行，视 Casey 为梦想嘉宾。Casey 开玩笑承认，自己今天来录播客前甚至动过爽约的念头，想着还不如在办公室里发呆闲坐，但最终还是庆幸自己来了。 - **重新燃起的创作欲望**：得知自己的作品曾激励了像 Jack 这样的年轻人，Casey 联想到导演斯派克·琼斯（Spike Jonze）为 Fat Lip 拍摄的经典音乐录影带。如果当年斯派克·琼斯选择在工作室做木架吃点心而不拍那支 MV，自己可能永远不会受到启发走上视频之路。这种责任感让他重新感受到了创作的驱动力。 --- ### [01:37:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5828s) 送给 19 岁创作者的建议：“根本没人在乎你” 面对“想给刚到纽约、一无所有的 19 岁自己（以及千千万万像当年一样迷茫的年轻人）什么建议”这一问题时，Casey 给出了一个看似刺耳却无比赋能的核心领悟：从最积极、最乐观、最鼓舞人心的角度来看，“根本没有人在意你（Nobody cares about you）”。 Casey 解释道，年轻的创意工作者——无论是想成为 YouTuber、电影制作人、音乐家还是画家——往往会产生一种自负的错觉，认为所有人都在注视着自己的一举一动，从而被他人的潜在评价绑架了思维。即便是当年年轻气盛、觉得自己一无所失的 Casey，也会时刻顾虑“大家会怎么看这个”、“怎样做才最稳妥”。但世界的残酷与美妙之处恰恰在于，每个人都只专注于自己的生活与烦恼，根本没有人有多余的时间和精力去评判你。Casey 强调，创作者越早接受“根本没人在乎你”这个事实，就能越早获得真正的自由，彻底卸下包袱，毫无顾忌地去追随内心认为正确的事情。 ### [01:38:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5930s) 拒绝平庸复制：耐心与准备终将引爆机遇 在总结给创作者的核心建议时，Casey Neistat 再次强调了保持原创性与独特性的重要性。他告诫大家绝对不要做别人的“复印件”（photocopy），因为如果你只是一张复印件，就永远不可能成为无可替代的原创者。他指出，创作者必须及早接受一个虽然残酷却让人彻底解脱的事实——“根本没人在意你，放手去做你自己的事就好”（"Nobody cares. Do your thing. Nobody cares."）。一旦摆脱了外界眼光的束缚，专注于自己的道路，你的技艺和表达就会越来越精进。 在此基础上，Casey 强调了“耐心”与“执着”所产生的化学反应。日复一日的持续耕耘看似枯燥，但正是在这种日积月累中，扎实的准备与不懈的坚持才得以慢慢沉淀。当准备与坚持最终与突如其来的机遇正面撞击时，属于你的“爆发时刻”（detonation）就会必然降临。Casey 笑着自嘲自己这番话有些啰嗦，但 Steven Bartlett 则由衷感谢他为这个宏大问题给出的深刻解答。 ### [01:39:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=5974s) VLOG 的黄金时代与幻灭：从真人秀的进化到追逐流量的崩塌 在进入节目收尾的保留环节之前，Steven Bartlett 提出了一个他非常渴望得到答案的问题。作为公认的“Vlog 之王”，Casey 曾彻底定义了这种视频叙事形式。Steven 提到，自己的团队近期也开始尝试发布周更 Vlog，目前已经发布了大约八期，反响非常热烈。然而纵观整个平台，过去风靡一时的日更 Vlog（如 Shaytards 以及 Casey 当年的日常更新）似乎已经退潮，那种让观众感觉“仿佛成为创作者的朋友、一同体验人生”的内容形式在平台算法的演进中逐渐式微。Steven 很好奇 Casey 如今如何审视 Vlog 这一媒介形态的兴衰起伏。 Casey 坦诚地回顾道，在他当年全力以赴做每日更新时，他坚信 Vlog 代表着“真人秀”（reality television）进化的终极成熟形态。传统的真人秀（例如金·卡戴珊的节目）在真实人物与最终成片之间，充斥着层层叠叠的制片人、导演、编剧以及人为虚构的情节；而 Vlog 的革命性在于彻底剔除了所有中间环节，只剩下一个人直接向观众分享自己的真实世界。这是他对该类型最乐观、最浪漫的预想。 然而，这一理想最终并未真正实现。Casey 认为，整个 Vlog 生态最终被对“博眼球”（sensationalism）和播放量数据的病态追求所腐蚀。他并不责怪任何人，甚至承认自己当年也难免受到播放量诱惑的影响。原本可能演变成某种崇高真诚的创作形式，最终演化成了一种愈发无趣、粗俗的流量游戏，并最终走向了全面崩溃。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Vlog 生态的演变历程 accDescr: 展示 Vlog 从传统真人秀的进化、被流量腐蚀崩塌，到最终在小众垂直领域涅槃重生的流程图。 subgraph Evolution ["理想与现实的演变"] A["传统真人秀<br/>(大量制作人/编剧/虚构成分)"] --> B["早期 Vlog 设想<br/>(剔除中介，直连真实世界)"] B --> C["流量数据与哗众取宠的腐蚀<br/>(Sensationalism & Views)"] C --> D["传统 Vlog 泡沫破裂与崩塌"] end subgraph Rebirth ["灰烬中的重生"] D --> E["小众垂直领域崛起<br/>(Niche & Micro-creators)"] E --> F1["鱼缸养护频道"] E --> F2["Retro Dodo<br/>(复古掌机与专属出版物)"] E --> F3["专注专业领域的深度叙事"] end ``` ### [01:41:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=6090s) 利基内容的涅槃重生与昆汀式的终极艺术家理想 在传统 Vlog 大潮退去的废墟之中，Casey 欣喜地看到了令人振奋的新生力量——小众垂直领域（niche）的蓬勃发展。在 YouTube 的早期时代，创作者必须扮演刻板印象里的“YouTuber”才能生存，所有人都在努力融入同一种风格模板；而如今，微型创作者们能够凭借极其细分的狂热爱好聚集起忠实的社群。Casey 举例称，他的一位好友频道完全只做“鱼缸”（fish tanks），内容极其硬核，却做成了体量巨大的热门频道；还有他的朋友团队 Retro Dodo，全网内容只专注于复古游戏掌机，不仅频道极其成功，甚至出版了自己的实体书。这种不再被迫出卖私人生活、而是深挖专业热爱的创作模式，在 Casey 看来正是平台最美妙的进化方向。 当 Steven 询问 Casey 是否还会动心重新开启每日 Vlog 时，Casey 给出了非常耐人寻味的答案：“如果我能做这件事却不获得任何名气或关注，我会立刻去做。”他内心深处最向往的创作范式其实是电影导演昆汀·塔伦蒂诺（Quentin Tarantino）： - **从人间蒸发**：昆汀可以在大众视野中彻底消失五六年，就像回到了自己的洞穴； - **纯粹的作品发声**：当他重新现身宣布“六个月后我的新片上映”，全世界讨论的唯独只有这部艺术作品； - **绝对的个人隐私**：没人知道昆汀结没结婚、有没有小孩、住在哪里、开什么车，但影迷却能背出他电影里的每一句台词。 Casey 渴望的是人们仅仅因为艺术贡献本身而认可一位创作者。而在每日 Vlog 中，Casey 感到自己无法将“贩卖个人生活与性格”与“纯粹的电影艺术”清晰割裂开来。两者在现实生活中的混杂常常让他心智受到困扰，尤其是走在街头被陌生路人随时围拢互动的现实压力，始终让他感到不安和神经紧绷。 ### [01:44:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=6249s) 最后一问与录影棚吐槽：真诚的告别与犀利反馈 在节目的尾声，Steven 打开了由上一位造访嘉宾留下来的神秘信封。信中提出的问题是：“你有什么想要给主持人 Steven、但可能平时不太敢当面直说的反馈意见？” Casey 听到题目后毫不犹豫地开启了纽约客式的幽默吐槽，脱口而出：“下次你在纽约市搭录影棚，千万别选在距离曼哈顿核心区开车整整 40 分钟的布鲁克林偏远角落！”他直言，必须把演播室建在曼哈顿下城，这样受邀嘉宾过来录制只需要 5 分钟车程，而不是痛苦地穿城奔波 40 分钟。Steven 笑着追问他今天是不是行程特别紧，Casey 展现了标志性的冷幽默：“完全不忙，我今天一整天都在家里装搁板和看电视，闲得要命。”Steven 赶忙解释这是他们第一次借用这个布鲁克林场地，之前一直都在下曼哈顿，Casey 笑着补刀：“千万别再来这儿了。”当 Steven 问他今天是否是踩着招牌电动滑板过来时，Casey 叹气表示滑板的电池续航根本撑不到布鲁克林这么远的距离。 在一阵欢笑之后，Steven 表达了对 Casey 的由衷敬意。他坦言自己多年来一直将 Casey 视作人生与艺术创作上的灯塔，Casey 对真实与真诚的坚守启发了整整一代创作者。在攀登创作阶梯的过程中，Casey 如同走在最前面的先驱者，从上方指引方向，让后来的创作者不必在迷茫与黑暗中反复跌撞。Steven 特别敦促 Casey 务必将手机备忘录里记下的那 25 个疯狂视频点子拍出来，Casey 则欣然答应，温暖致谢，在真诚与惺惺相惜中为这场长达近两个小时的深度对谈画上了圆满的句号。 ## Notable quotes > [14:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=849s) 一无所有的人就无所畏惧，就像被逼到墙角的老鼠，唯一的出路就是咬碎一切冲出去。 — Casey Neistat > [17:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1029s) 只要别让我在餐馆洗碗打杂，干什么都行。 — Casey Neistat > [22:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1332s) 人一生中或许能争取到自己想要的东西，但你无法勉强自己去‘渴望’那些你其实并不真正想要的目标。 — Casey Neistat > [31:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=1916s) 你在说什么？我为什么要回去？我会搞定的，我没事的。再见，老爸。 — Casey Neistat > [34:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2079s) 我的生活就像是在被一群饥肠辘辘的恶狼追赶。只要我的脚步稍微慢下来一点点，就会被它们活生生吃掉。我只有一个选择，那就是拼尽全力往前跑，否则就会被撕成碎片。 — Casey Neistat > [47:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=2826s) 真实能够经受时间的考验，真实才真正重要。 — Casey Neistat > [01:07:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4073s) 如果你不知道自己一生想做什么，就先去做一件你讨厌的事；在这个过程中，你自然会明白自己热爱什么。 — Casey Neistat > [01:13:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4382s) 只要给我足够多的巴尔沙木（轻木）和足够的时间，我连宇宙飞船都能造出来。 — Casey Neistat > [01:18:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=4695s) 我们在 CNN 旗帜下没有取得成功的真正原因，是因为我，完全是因为我……是我没能看清机会并在体系内把它做出来。我把这归咎于我自己的虚荣自负与天真幼稚。 — Casey Neistat > [01:41:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=6110s) 根本没有人在意你，放手去做你自己的事就好。 — Casey Neistat > [01:41:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs&t=6090s) 如果我能做这件事却不获得任何名气或关注，我会立刻去做。 — Casey Neistat ## Mentioned Casey Neistat, Steven Bartlett, The Diary Of A CEO, Alex Cooper, Call Her Daddy, Tom Hanks, 飞越未来 (Big), Owen Neistat, Van Neistat, Dean Neistat, Bronnie Ware, Anvil, 金属精神 (Anvil! The Story of Anvil), Def Leppard, Lips (Steve Kudlow), MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson), Compaq, WIC (妇幼营养补助计划), Craigslist, Apple iMac, 辉瑞制药 (Pfizer), 昆汀·塔伦蒂诺 (Quentin Tarantino), Feastables, 维尔纳·赫尔佐格 (Werner Herzog), 小小迪特想要飞 (Little Dieter Needs to Fly), 乱世佳人 (Gone with the Wind), 变形金刚 (Transformers), 斯派克·琼斯 (Spike Jonze), Fatlip, What's Up, Fatlip?, Francine Neistat, Candice Pool, HBO, MTV, Nike, 纽约时报 (The New York Times), 麻省理工学院媒体实验室 (MIT Media Lab), Nick Bilton, 孵化推特 (Hatching Twitter), Twitter, Beme, Chase Bank, Mark Zuckerberg, 社交网络 (The Social Network), 南方公园 (South Park), Home Depot, George Mack, Lockheed Martin, NASA, Volvo 240, Matt Hackett, Facebook, CNN, Turner, Gary Vaynerchuk, Brad Pitt, 搏击俱乐部 (Fight Club), Justin Bieber, 368 (Broadway 368), Dan Mace, Whoop, Huel, 机械生活 (Koyaanisqatsi), Met Gala, YouTube Studio, Jack Sylvester, Shaytards, Retro Dodo ## Video description If you enjoy hearing about the challenges of being a creator, I recommend you check out my conversation with the creator of ‘Call Her Daddy, Alex Cooper, which you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knPqBc2qJ8E 0:00 Intro 03:23 The Early Years That Made You Who You Are Today 07:29 Your Parents 08:51 Your Parents Divorce 12:03 Your Plan In The Early Years 14:09 Having A Child At 16 Years Old 18:10 What Do Now Know About 'Brilliant Accidental' Decisions 22:12 Why Don't People Make The Leap Into The Changes They Want? 25:02 The Gift Of Failure 28:42 The Role Of Persistence & Patience In Your Story 31:56 Where Does Your Patience Come From? 40:47 What Was It That Got You Into Video? 44:10 How Do We Create Originality? 54:02 Warning For Anyone Wanting To Get Famous 57:14 Finding Your Success 59:21 Starting Your Daily Vlog 01:03:59 Launching A Tech Company 01:07:53 You Were "Unqualified" To Do All Of These Things...What Does That Mean 01:15:50 A Million Failure For One Success 01:18:15 How You Were Feeling During Your Exist From Beam 01:22:26 Dealing With Fam 01:26:43 Your Wife Candice 01:28:08 Ads 01:29:35 What Does The Next 10 Years Look Like? 01:34:48 Whats Next For Casey? 01:36:53 What Advice Do You Wish You Had But Never Received? 01:39:34 The Current Landscape Of Vlogging 01:44:04 The Last Guest's Question Follow Casey: Instagram: https://bit.ly/47NRUB8 Twitter: https://bit.ly/3RcoHZD YouTube: @casey My new book! 'The 33 Laws Of Business & Life' is out now: https://smarturl.it/DOACbook Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-by-steven-bartlett/id1291423644 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGq-a57w-aPwyi3pW7XLiHw/join FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://x.com/StevenBartlett?s=20 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Sponsors: Whoop: https://join.whoop.com/en-uk/CEO Huel: https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuyiCnROzs)

[14:09] Casey Neistat: 一无所有的人就无所畏惧，就像被逼到墙角的老鼠，唯一的出路就是咬碎一切冲出去。 [17:09] Casey Neistat: 只要别让我在餐馆洗碗打杂，干什么都行。 [22:12] Casey Neistat: 人一生中或许能争取到自己想要的东西，但你无法勉强自己去‘渴望’那些你其实并不真正想要的目标。 [31:56] Casey Neistat: 你在说什么？我为什么要回去？我会搞定的，我没事的。再见，老爸。 [34:39] Casey Neistat: 我的生活就像是在被一群饥肠辘辘的恶狼追赶。只要我的脚步稍微慢下来一点点，就会被它们活生生吃掉。我只有一个选择，那就是拼尽全力往前跑，否则就会被撕成碎片。 [47:06] Casey Neistat: 真实能够经受时间的考验，真实才真正重要。 [67:53] Casey Neistat: 如果你不知道自己一生想做什么，就先去做一件你讨厌的事；在这个过程中，你自然会明白自己热爱什么。 [73:02] Casey Neistat: 只要给我足够多的巴尔沙木（轻木）和足够的时间，我连宇宙飞船都能造出来。 [78:15] Casey Neistat: 我们在 CNN 旗帜下没有取得成功的真正原因，是因为我，完全是因为我……是我没能看清机会并在体系内把它做出来。我把这归咎于我自己的虚荣自负与天真幼稚。 [101:50] Casey Neistat: 根本没有人在意你，放手去做你自己的事就好。 [101:30] Casey Neistat: 如果我能做这件事却不获得任何名气或关注，我会立刻去做。

[0:00] Casey Neistat: Patience will smash into opportunity... In life you can get whatever you want, but are you willing to do that for 20 years? If you're not, don't bother, man. [12:03] Casey Neistat: The sole mission of my life is to realize all the promises I made to myself as a kid... The how was always gray, but the 'to do it' was always vivid. [18:10] Casey Neistat: If you have to be told that... if you're going to learn that from an Instagram post, it means nothing to you. It's just masturbation... doing nothing for anyone. [22:12] Casey Neistat: You can get whatever you want, but you can't want whatever you want. If you don't want it, there's no creating that. [25:02] Casey Neistat: Failure hurts so bad, but failure is a part of life... I think people are so scared of failure, and the fear of failure is the fear of what other people are going to think about you. [28:42] Casey Neistat: Patience above everything... If you're willing to stick with it, you will find success or you'll die trying, in which case, fuck it. [40:48] Casey Neistat: Video for me has always been a way of a refined self-expression for me to take my thoughts and force them into this sort of articulate six, eight-minute compartmentalized little video... Jimmy's from day one has just been find success. [63:50] Casey Neistat: I think I live somewhere between regular and close to smart, but not fully smart... I was like, 'I can do what they did. I can do that.' [67:53] Casey Neistat: My rule of mine is: if you don't know what you want to do in life, do something you hate. Through that process, you'll figure out what it is that you love. [72:03] Casey Neistat: It won't fail because of me. [72:03] Casey Neistat: Give me a big enough pile of balsa wood and enough time, and I will build you a spaceship. [78:15] Casey Neistat: The reason why we didn't succeed under CNN is because of me and only because of me. [82:26] Casey Neistat: I wasn't running the marathon because I wanted to get across the finish line... I was running it because I loved the running. [94:57] Casey Neistat: nobody cares about you [104:04] Casey Neistat: When you set up a studio in New York City, don't do it 40 minutes out into Brooklyn.

[0:00] It got scary. We had to move into a high [0:03] security building and I didn't know what [0:05] to do. [0:06] That's when it got dark. Casey Neistat [0:10] of YouTube, the king of vlogging. [0:11] One of the most prolific creators in [0:14] history. [0:16] Throughout your story there's this [0:18] objectively delusional persistence [0:19] towards a goal. [0:20] The word I've been using is patience [0:22] because patience is so unattractive and [0:24] I think you need to remove this idea of [0:26] success being this romantic, beautiful [0:28] thing. It's not. When I started my daily [0:30] vlog, making a video a day 800 days in a [0:32] row, it took eight years to go from zero [0:34] to a couple hundred thousand [0:36] subscribers, failing year in and year [0:38] out, and I was $200,000 [0:40] in debt. Awful. You're a loser. But [0:44] patience will smash into opportunity and [0:46] then it went to 10 million subscribers [0:48] in like 18 months. So in life you can [0:51] get whatever you want, but are you [0:52] willing to do that for 20 years? If [0:54] you're not, don't bother, man. You've [0:56] sold the company, you've built the [0:57] channels, you've made a huge name for [0:59] yourself. At that point [1:01] That's when it got hard because the only [1:03] goal that anyone should have in life is [1:05] one of happiness and fulfillment. And [1:06] like this idea that you have to win to [1:07] be happy could not be further from the [1:09] truth. I had by every definition [1:11] achieved success, but I wasn't running [1:13] the marathon because I wanted to get [1:15] across the finish line. I was running it [1:16] because I loved the running and the fame [1:19] was insane. Like we had to move to LA [1:22] and I didn't know what to do. Until now. [1:25] Is this a new Casey? What can we expect? [1:30] Casey is a legend. He's a legend to so [1:33] many people. He's one of the originals [1:35] as it relates to creativity, content, [1:38] video, and YouTube. And although most of [1:41] us know Casey, what most of us don't [1:43] know is the underdog story, the true, [1:47] deep, uncovered motivations that drove [1:50] him to become arguably one of the [1:53] world's most famous, most acclaimed, [1:55] most celebrated online creators ever. [2:00] And it's a story that you'll relate to. [2:03] It's a story of a completely normal dude [2:06] that was down and out, that had a very [2:08] big, indistinguishable passion. [2:11] And more interesting, maybe for me as [2:13] someone that's watched Casey's journey [2:14] from afar, is what he's doing now. [2:19] For the first time ever, he talks about [2:21] what his life is right now. Now that [2:25] he's not uploading videos every day. [2:27] Now that he's a little bit further out [2:29] of the spotlight. [2:30] And Casey gives us this blueprint for [2:32] how we can take that thing that we enjoy [2:35] doing, that thing we consider a passion [2:36] or a hobby, and drag it up the mountain [2:39] and make it an incredibly lucrative job. [2:42] How do we turn our passion [2:45] into a career? And how do we become [2:47] number one at the thing we do when [2:50] everything everything seems to be [2:53] against us? That is the story of Casey [2:56] Neistat and that's the story you're [2:57] going to enjoy today. Before this [2:59] episode starts, the one favor I'll ask, [3:01] if you enjoy what we do here and you [3:03] enjoy the guests that we bring, please [3:05] join the Diary of a CEO journey by [3:06] hitting the subscribe button. And if you [3:08] do, I'll make you a deal. I'll do [3:10] everything in my power to make this show [3:12] bigger and better for you. Do we have a [3:14] deal? [3:15] Enjoy this episode. [3:23] Casey, [3:25] what do I need to know about your [3:27] earliest years to understand the man [3:30] that sits before me today? I I almost [3:32] think of people's lives, like a set of [3:33] dominoes that have fallen. [3:35] What are those first dominoes that fell [3:37] to create the man that sits here today? [3:39] Oh, man. How much time you got? [3:42] Plenty. So my whole childhood was just [3:44] completely unsupervised. [3:47] Like there was no did you do your [3:49] homework tonight? There was no like [3:50] dinner at 6:00. It was like be home [3:52] before dark or you're going to be in [3:54] trouble. Trouble never being defined and [3:56] like dark never being defined. And it [3:58] was just kind of like a very loose, [4:01] kind of [ __ ] up, wandering childhood [4:03] of exploration. [4:05] You know, like I was telling this story [4:07] recently, but we there were railroad [4:09] tracks behind our house. And one of the [4:11] things we used to do for fun when we [4:13] were little kids is we collect pennies [4:15] and change and we'd lay them on the [4:17] railroad tracks and the train would go [4:18] over them and flatten them. Very cool. [4:21] But the train would vibrate the tracks [4:23] as it approached and the coins would [4:25] fall off of it. So what the only way to [4:27] to to address that is you'd put the [4:29] coins on the train tracks when the train [4:31] was really close. [4:34] So I you know, I don't know. I was in [4:36] grammar school, which is sixth grade. [4:37] Like how old are you then? I was like 10 [4:39] years old. It's a little kid. [4:42] And like, you know, train tracks, huge [4:44] freight train coming and me putting [4:45] nickels on the train tracks to try to [4:47] get a flattened coin. That's kind of [4:49] what my childhood was like. [4:52] As you look back, what is the power and [4:54] the [4:55] the gift that that unsupervised gives [4:57] you cuz I resonate with that so much. I [4:59] think the reason I became an [5:00] entrepreneur was because I I've always [5:02] said this, when I was 10 years old my [5:03] parents weren't there when I went to bed [5:04] and they weren't there when I woke up. [5:06] And being the youngest of four, it was [5:08] like they'd assumed I'd also been [5:09] parented already. So they just [5:11] they like gave up or something. They [5:12] just got busy. So in that void of [5:15] independence I conducted a lot of [5:17] experiments and I almost hear that in [5:19] what you're saying as well. That [5:20] unsupervised allowed for exploration [5:23] that allowed for something. Yeah, I [5:25] think it's um [5:27] or like necessity is the mother of [5:29] invention and I think, you know, if [5:32] you're 10 and your parents all of a [5:33] sudden are absent, you're just forced to [5:36] figure [ __ ] out. It's funny because like [5:40] all I want to do as a parent now is [5:41] protect my children from the hardships I [5:43] had when I was little. But it is those [5:46] hardships I had that made me who I am. [5:48] And it is like this impossible dichotomy [5:51] to address. It's impossible as a parent. [5:53] Like I constantly think I'm [ __ ] up [5:55] my kids. Like we send them to a private [5:57] school because we can. Like if you can [5:59] afford it, which we can, [6:01] we're fortunate. Like why would I not [6:03] send my kids to the best school? [6:05] But in the back of my brain, I think [6:06] what's best for them is to be in some [6:09] New York City public school figuring it [6:10] out. [6:11] Like I think that's what's best, but I [6:12] don't do that. [6:14] Um because I had a terrible time at [6:16] public school. I hated it. So I want to [6:18] protect them from that. So I send them [6:19] to a really fancy school that's lovely [6:21] and warm and cozy. And like am I helping [6:23] them? I don't know. [6:24] But no, I think that exactly what you [6:26] were saying, like [6:27] I had no choice but to figure it out [6:29] when I was little. [6:31] Like I worked from like when I was super [6:33] young I figured out how to make a [6:34] dollar. Like I was a [6:35] paper boy when I was really, really [6:38] young delivering newspapers and I'd make [6:40] like 30 bucks a week and then, you know, [6:42] when I got to [6:43] um eighth grade and I started smoking [6:46] pot and I realized like the math behind [6:49] weed sales. [6:50] I was like, okay, there's like a there's [6:52] a 400% a 4x return if you buy quarter [6:57] ounces and you break them down and you [6:59] sell them as dime bags, but if you buy a [7:02] quarter pound and you sell them as [7:04] eighths, you're looking at a 1600% [7:06] return. [7:07] I was like, okay, so how do I come up [7:09] with 250 bucks to buy the to buy the QP [7:13] and then let me break that down and then [7:15] like I haven't hit puberty yet. I'm a [7:17] little kid. Like these guys are going to [7:18] beat the [ __ ] out of me if I mess with [7:20] the wrong people. So I need to befriend [7:22] the guys that can protect me and like [7:23] figure out that business. [7:25] Um all of that was because I had like I [7:27] had no choice. [7:29] Why were you unsupervised? Where were [7:31] your parents? [7:32] Um and this is what I mean when I say my [7:34] parents were accidentally um great and I [7:37] do think they tried their best. You [7:38] know, like my dad worked a zillion hours [7:41] a week. He had no choice. Um I think we [7:44] lived like a very middle class [7:47] livelihood. You know, like my parents [7:48] had like nice cars. They had Volvos, but [7:51] they always bought like five-year-old [7:52] Volvos, not never new cars. And like we [7:54] lived in a house that was like [7:56] comfortable, but like, you know, there's [7:58] never any food in our house. It was like [8:00] it was fine. We always made it by. Like [8:02] we'd go on vacation, but it was always [8:04] like in the back of the station wagon [8:05] and we'd go to like a town two hours [8:07] away and stay in a shitty motel for two [8:09] or three nights. But my dad worked all [8:12] the time and I only understood later [8:14] that it was very like hand to mouth. You [8:16] know, he's paycheck to paycheck kind of [8:18] guy. [8:19] And my mother, you know, I don't I still [8:21] don't understand my mom. I think she she [8:22] was one of eight kids. My mother is the [8:25] tail end of an aristocracy. So it's like [8:29] I would describe her side of the family [8:30] as like all the privilege and [8:32] entitlement of an aristocrat with none [8:36] of the money. [8:37] So I you know, I don't my mother was [8:40] just always kind of an enigma, always [8:41] kind of absent. Um [8:44] and I think that they were just they [8:46] tried the best they could and we were [8:48] just kind of left wandering as kids. [8:50] They divorced at some point. Yeah, [8:52] that's when things got really hard. [8:54] In what way? I think that childhood [8:57] always felt like you were sort of [8:58] hanging on by a thread. It was like one [9:00] of four. [9:01] My older brother Van was the firstborn [9:04] and he's such a Van is such an [9:05] incredible guy and he's so magnetic. And [9:07] then there's my sister who's the only [9:09] girl. [9:10] And then there's my little baby brother [9:12] Dean who was the baby. And then I was [9:14] just kind of this like accident that [9:16] happened 13 months after my sister and [9:18] two years before my brother. Like it was [9:19] this [9:20] So it was like I I was always the [9:22] loudest and the squeakiest to get the [9:24] most attention. [9:25] And [9:28] you know, that was [9:31] I kind of think that like characterized [9:33] what my [9:34] the challenges was were for me as a kid [9:36] growing up. And then it just got, you [9:40] know, the the the [9:42] the tumult of living in that house just [9:45] kind of precipitated until my parents [9:46] split up, which happened under very like [9:49] auspicious, shitty, [ __ ] up [9:51] circumstances and [9:52] kids being blamed when the kids [9:54] shouldn't have been blamed and um I say [9:56] all that without faulting my parents. [9:58] again I think they were trying their [9:59] best but looking back at it it's like [10:01] what the [ __ ] guys. [10:03] I I had you say previously that you you [10:06] had to tell your father that your mother [10:07] had been had cheated on him. Yeah I [10:09] remember that vividly and I can picture [10:11] the table we were sitting at I can [10:13] remember his posture I can remember his [10:14] response to it but yeah you know my [10:17] mother you know she's a [10:19] she's a you know she's a good woman she [10:21] has faults like all of us humans have [10:23] faults but I think she let those [10:25] manifest in a way [10:27] that were really dark at that time in [10:29] her life and it was apparent to me as a [10:32] 14 year old exactly what was going on. [10:35] Exactly what was going on it was so [10:37] [ __ ] crystal clear. As a 14 year old? [10:39] Yeah like abundantly clear. [10:42] And I never really understood my own [10:43] father's perspective on that. [10:46] But I understand that his perspective [10:48] now it's like you know he's working a [10:49] million hours a week to keep his head [10:50] above water [10:52] and also like you don't want to see that [10:54] you don't like the truth sucks so just [10:56] like put your head in the sand and [10:58] ignore it is a very natural response to [11:00] it but I was like fighting with my [11:02] mother at the time [11:04] about you know all kinds of [ __ ] that a [11:06] teenager fights with their parents about [11:08] getting in trouble at school and [11:10] all of that so I I was mad at her [11:12] and I think I you know part of part of [11:15] me addressing that was just sort of [11:16] confronting my dad like what are you [11:18] going to do about this woman? [11:20] At 14 years old you knew your mother was [11:21] cheating on your father and and you told [11:23] him? Yeah. [11:24] How does one know that? [11:28] I mean it's it it was [11:31] it was super apparent I mean there were [11:32] very there was a handful of very [11:34] specific [11:35] situations that just made it abundantly [11:39] clear um [11:41] and you know I think that's why I like [11:42] you know at the time obviously I fault [11:43] my mom through and through but looking [11:45] back at it it was you know it was [11:46] probably something closer to like a cry [11:48] for help or a cry for attention or oh [11:51] but just a way of her [11:53] you know her letting the struggles she [11:55] was facing in their totality of her life [11:57] manifest like this is the only way I can [11:59] express it is by doing this kind of [12:01] [ __ ] up awful thing. As you step out [12:03] of that chapter of your your childhood [12:05] what are the [12:07] fingerprints the character fingerprints [12:09] that are left on you that still are with [12:12] you today? What did that chapter of your [12:13] life those first sort of 15 years [12:15] do you think [12:16] think anything has changed I don't think [12:18] it's even fingerprints there was so like [12:20] acute the way that I had that I saw my [12:23] future when I was that young. [12:25] Like I knew exactly my plan. Really? And [12:28] exactly my plan and then look the [12:30] specifics of how that plan was going to [12:31] come together were [12:33] ambiguous at best but like I had I knew [12:35] exactly my plan. [12:37] Like New York City was always the plan [12:39] and I remember it was like page 41 in my [12:41] social studies book was a two page [12:43] spread of the New York City skyline and [12:45] I wouldn't let myself look at that page [12:47] cuz it would I would have such an [12:48] emotional response to it like Tom Hanks [12:51] in the movie Big I would play that movie [12:53] on repeat cuz I was like that's me like [12:55] that's me I'm going to move to New York [12:56] City and get to be the kid that I wish I [12:57] could be like that's me to this day like [13:00] I know every word of that movie that [13:02] movie is like a bible for me it is a [13:04] road map for me but you know like I've [13:07] I've [13:07] made 500 YouTube videos about this [13:09] single idea but like the mission of my [13:11] life and this was defined then when I [13:13] was a little kid the sole mission of my [13:15] life is to realize all the promises I [13:17] made to myself as a kid. Like when [13:19] you're a little kid and you're like [13:20] someday I'm going to be an astronaut and [13:21] like your mom yells at you and it's like [13:23] well someday I'm going to have kids and [13:24] I'm not going to yell at them or like [13:26] you're [ __ ] hungry and you're all out [13:27] of mac and cheese and you're like [13:28] someday I'm going to have a refrigerator [13:29] that's always filled up with food like [13:31] whatever it is. [13:32] You know you have a boss that's an [13:33] [ __ ] and it's like someday I'm not [13:35] going to have any boss and like all of [13:37] those promises like my promises could [13:40] you know they could fill up a phone book [13:42] and my sole mission was always like you [13:43] know I have to check every single one of [13:45] these off. [13:47] Um the how was always gray but the the [13:51] to do it was always vivid and there was [13:53] never even a doubt that it was going to [13:56] happen like there was never an if never [13:59] there's nothing even close to that. But [14:01] life throws at you at that age things [14:03] that you could never have predicted and [14:05] those things don't seem to have deterred [14:07] your pursuit of that mission. You have a [14:10] child that's what 16 17 years old? [14:12] Yeah that was it yeah so I moved out [14:15] moved out is such a funny way of [14:16] characterizing I say moved out and I [14:17] picture like a moving truck pull up I [14:19] got in a fight with my mom at age 15 on [14:22] a Monday night [14:24] um school night [14:25] and she gave me this ultimatum this is [14:27] when she and my father were like you [14:28] know really [14:29] they they were splitting up and getting [14:31] back together it was like a really [14:32] gnarly time in the family but we got [14:34] into this fight and I just remember [14:35] thinking like I was so mad at her at the [14:37] time I was like you can't tell me what [14:38] to do [14:40] and she was like you need to do this [14:41] this and this or get out of this house [14:42] and I was like all right I'm going to [14:43] go. [14:44] And I just like left. Where where did [14:46] you go? I like that I just stayed at a [14:48] friend's house down the street cuz his [14:50] parents were like [14:51] weirdly religious but also kind of [14:53] absent they were always like really warm [14:55] to me so I was like can I sleep here and [14:56] he's like yeah sure. [14:58] And I slept in another friend's house [14:59] and then So you ran away from home? [15:01] Yeah so I say moved out it wasn't like [15:04] you know put the couch over there and it [15:06] was like I just took a backpack and it [15:07] was as close to like a stick with a red [15:09] handkerchief on the back [15:11] um but I eventually moved in with these [15:13] two girls they were great they were [15:14] super fun um [15:17] and you know they were like let's see I [15:19] was 15 I think they were 17 or 18 [15:22] and then yeah I started you know one of [15:23] them [15:24] she and I kind of got close and then [15:26] like immediately she was pregnant and a [15:28] year later we had yeah we had a kid. [15:30] And that was challenging but even so [15:33] like I never [15:34] I remember one moment where like she [15:35] started freaking out in the car [15:38] cuz she was like you know eight months [15:39] pregnant and she's like crying and just [15:42] like you know [15:44] dealing with it and I pulled over and I [15:45] was like what are you upset about and [15:47] she was like [15:49] what are we going to do? We don't have [15:51] any money like you don't even have a job [15:52] like what are we going to do? [15:54] And I was like it's going to be fine [15:55] what do you mean what are we going to do [15:56] it's going to be fine we're going to [15:57] have a kid it's going to be great it's [15:59] going to be fine. [16:01] Were you not scared? [16:02] Then no it just everything made sense I [16:05] was like oh this is great. [16:07] There's a naivety to there's beautiful [16:10] Now I'm scared I always say that like I [16:13] had nothing to lose then I had nothing [16:16] and nothing like I had I had no [16:18] reputation [16:20] you know like my friends parents all [16:22] thought I was a [ __ ] degenerate they [16:23] wouldn't let me hang out with their [16:24] friends cuz I was such a bad influence [16:26] so it wasn't like I had like a [16:27] reputation nobody knew me I had nothing [16:30] I had no money I had no resources I knew [16:32] no one [16:34] and when you have nothing to lose you're [16:35] just like a [16:36] you're like a rat that's cornered and it [16:38] was like all right I'm going to chew my [16:39] way out of this one [16:41] um and now I'm like so scared of [16:44] everything I do in life cuz I'm like [16:45] it's so good right now I don't want to [16:47] [ __ ] anything up take it really easy [16:51] like I'm really happy right now like [16:53] this is I want to protect what I've got. [16:55] But no there was a naivety then that was [16:57] just uh [16:59] that was it's hard for me to empathize [17:01] with how [17:02] like bright eyed bushy tailed naive I [17:04] was I remember like my son Owen when his [17:07] mother when she and I split up [17:10] um [17:11] you know she dumped me cuz I was just [17:13] such a pain in the ass and God bless her [17:15] for doing so but I remember it was like [17:18] then I was like okay I've got a plan in [17:20] five years I'm going to move to New York [17:22] City and I'm going to figure this out [17:23] and I'm going to do this and I'm going [17:24] to do that. What were you going to do in [17:25] New York? [17:26] know I had some cockamamie plan there's [17:28] always a plan. Um [17:31] I don't know what this is but I knew [17:32] that like up until that point in my life [17:34] I'd only ever worked in the back of [17:36] restaurants [17:37] washing dishes or like being like a prep [17:39] cook or just being like the low man in [17:42] the totem pole takes out the trash and [17:43] scrubs out the garbage cans and like [17:45] does all the [ __ ] work mop um is the [17:47] only job I'd ever done. [17:49] My my father sold used restaurant [17:51] supplies so like if you needed a new [17:52] oven or walk in fridge so he could [17:54] always get me jobs in restaurants [17:57] and I remember like moving to New York [17:58] City my only plan was like I'm just not [18:00] going to work in a restaurant that's my [18:02] plan I'm going to do anything that's not [18:03] work but I had this five year plan to [18:05] move to New York City and like six [18:08] months later I quit my job and moved to [18:09] New York. When you look back at that [18:11] sort of like 19 year old kid that quits [18:13] his job and moves to New York so up [18:15] until that point what do you now know as [18:17] a guy that's in their 40s about the [18:21] brilliant accidental decisions you were [18:23] making at the time? [18:25] Like what are the brilliant you know [18:26] like the accidental brilliance that is [18:27] probably objectively stupidity like [18:30] that's a stupid decision but in [18:31] hindsight you go I was a genius. You [18:34] know it's I never would say in hindsight [18:36] I was a genius it's just be it was raw [18:38] stupidity and fearlessness but [18:41] it's like all those stupid [ __ ] [18:43] quotes that everybody posts on Instagram [18:45] that like I hate about like you know you [18:49] only live once follow your dreams pursue [18:51] this like [ __ ] you [ __ ] every one of you [18:55] I hate that [ __ ] I hate inspo porn even [18:57] though I'm very guilty of [19:00] fanning the flames of inspo porn but [19:02] like there's so much truth to all of [19:04] that [19:05] and the reason why I hate that [ __ ] is [19:07] like if you have to be told that too [19:09] late if you're going to learn that from [19:11] an Instagram post it means nothing [19:12] nothing to you it's just masturbation [19:15] like it's it's doing nothing for anyone [19:17] people just put it up there to feel good [19:18] about themselves [19:20] but [19:21] all of it is true [19:23] and what I mean by that is like I could [19:26] never do at age 42 what I could do at [19:29] age 19 which is just say [ __ ] it I've [19:32] got a 10th grade education [19:34] no high school diploma no work [19:36] experience no life experience and a two [19:38] year old [19:39] what's the best thing I can do right now [19:41] I know let me move to the most expensive [19:42] challenging city in the world with no [19:45] plan. [19:46] If I hadn't done it then I don't I don't [19:47] know if you could ever do that and I [19:49] think that like when I say those cheesy [19:51] quotes are true, it's like [19:53] you kind of have an obligation in in [19:56] life that if you feel something that is [19:57] so powerful to you, like follow through [19:59] with that. [20:00] And I'm not naive to that [20:02] now. I wasn't naive to it then, but I [20:05] think now I can articulate it, which is [20:06] like [20:07] this idea of privilege. [20:09] Like if you're like born in the United [20:11] States of America, if you like get to [20:13] sit at a table and do this, like no, I [20:15] wasn't a rich kid and like yeah, I was [20:16] like on welfare and got free diapers and [20:18] milk from the state, otherwise I [20:19] wouldn't be able to [20:21] feed my child and like I work 60 hours a [20:23] week in a kitchen making eight bucks an [20:25] hour. I think I got 7.25 an hour was my [20:27] starting [20:29] um salary. And like I that was like I'm [20:32] like the luckiest person in the world to [20:33] get to do that. Are you crazy? [20:35] Like do you know what some kid in South [20:37] Sudan would do for that opportunity? And [20:41] I just walked into it. I'm like a [20:43] healthy guy. I've got two legs that work [20:45] and like like I got a brain like I'm [20:47] like I'm the lucky the lotto on life. [20:50] So like if you start life with this [20:52] winning lotto ticket and it's like a [20:54] little hiccup. Accidentally had a baby [20:56] when I was [ __ ] teenager. It's like [20:58] oh, no big deal. Like they'll just push [20:59] through this. This is going to be great. [21:01] And it's like I want to live in New York [21:02] City. It's like let's go for it. Let's [21:04] do it. The privilege that sounds like a [21:06] privilege of mindset. [21:08] Not this objective privilege I guess [21:09] from being a Yeah, like I push back and [21:11] when people say that, my response is [21:12] like [ __ ] you. Privilege of mindset. No, [21:14] that's an objective privilege. Name one [21:17] time in the history of humanity Like [21:20] where the Sumerians invented the written [21:21] word 5,000 years ago. Name one time when [21:25] people had the kind of opportunity that [21:26] like people like us born in the West [21:28] have. Like there's never existed before. [21:32] Never. Ever. Maybe it was a little bit [21:34] easier for our parents. [21:36] You know what I mean? Like maybe like [21:37] post-war [21:39] USA was like a little bit easier than it [21:41] is now. Maybe now is a little bit harder [21:43] than it was for me 20 years ago, but [21:44] like still, give me a [ __ ] break. [21:48] Like this life is like it's it's the [21:50] hardships we face now are so menial [21:52] compared to what they were 100 years [21:54] ago. Objectively, 200 years ago. You [21:57] ever see that thing that went viral and [21:58] it was like the reasons why people died [22:01] in London in the year 1892 and like the [22:04] fourth most popular cause of death was [22:06] teeth. [22:08] Like it was like if 60% of the [22:09] population are dying cuz their teeth are [22:10] [ __ ] up. Like we have it pretty easy. [22:13] What Why don't people So there's going [22:16] to be another guy right now that's like [22:17] washing pots in the back room at the [22:18] seafood restaurant on the $7 an hour. [22:22] And he might be listening to this right [22:23] now and he hears you say that, but why [22:26] why don't people take action beyond that [22:28] point and take the big bet when they [22:30] have objectively potentially nothing to [22:32] lose? Oh, what's that line from [22:35] is it Caddyshack or Fletch when he's [22:36] like the world needs ditch diggers, too? [22:39] That's a very cynical take on it, but I [22:41] think a very practical take is like not [22:43] everybody wants it and I think that's [22:45] okay. I think it's a wonderful thing. I [22:47] never understood that. [22:49] I think like in life you can get [22:50] whatever you want, but you can't want [22:52] whatever you want. If you don't want it, [22:54] there's no creating that. But do you [22:56] think think sometimes people want to [22:57] want it, but they don't really want it? [22:59] course. Of course. [23:01] And I think that's okay. Like if you [23:03] really [ __ ] wanted it, [23:05] you wouldn't need this like [23:06] inspirational podcast to make you make [23:08] that decision. You'd already be [ __ ] [23:10] doing it. [23:11] Um and that's not it to be defeatist. It [23:13] just means that like [23:15] the only goal that anyone should have in [23:16] life is one of happiness and [23:18] fulfillment. [23:19] And like this idea that you have to win [23:20] to be happy could not be further from [23:22] the truth. Like why do we hear about [23:24] rock stars and famous actors and these [23:27] people that we see as sort of like the [23:28] the absolute apex of success in the [23:30] industry, why are they all [ __ ] [23:31] killing themselves and dying of [23:32] alcoholism and like all that darkness [23:34] happening at the highest level? It's [23:37] like cuz that doesn't equal happiness. [23:38] Like what is happiness for you? [23:41] And the example I like to point to is [23:42] like my best friend in the whole world, [23:44] we grew up together like [23:46] um I like ran away from home. I stayed [23:48] with them for a little while. Like we've [23:49] been together since we were kids. You [23:51] know, like when I moved to New York, he [23:53] stayed in the hometown. And like when I [23:56] quit my job washing dishes, I gave him [23:57] that job. He literally took over that [23:59] job. And now, you know, here we are 25 [24:03] years later. He still lives in that [24:04] town. [24:05] Um you know, he still has a a job very [24:07] similar to what he had 25 years ago. [24:09] He's got three amazing kids. He lives [24:11] like a very what I would say is like [24:13] very classic archetypal middle class [24:17] American life. And like I look at him [24:19] and I'm like that is the embodiment [24:21] of like happiness and fulfillment. He [24:23] has this amazing relationship with his [24:25] amazing wife. He has these three [24:26] brilliant little kids that he gets to, [24:28] you know, make sure you get they get to [24:30] school every single day. He's got like a [24:31] cute dog that he goes on runs with. He [24:33] has this amazing life and no part of [24:36] that life was being like [ __ ] this. I [24:39] want to like live on the moon someday. I [24:41] need to run away from all this. Like his [24:43] his focus in life was something [24:45] completely different. [24:46] And I think that I didn't understand I I [24:49] struggled to appreciate that when I was [24:50] younger, but now I see like so much to [24:53] that and that's why I think like [24:55] adjusting the pie in the sky is just one [24:58] of happiness and fulfillment and [24:59] defining those [25:01] it is up to you. Bronnie Ware meant was [25:03] talking about the other day. She's a I [25:05] think it's called palliative care nurse [25:07] in Australia who interviewed people with [25:09] one day left to live and she asked them [25:11] what their biggest regret in their life [25:12] was. The number one regret of the dying [25:14] was not living a life true to myself. [25:16] Mhm. [25:17] And for those people, [25:19] those that do have this aspiration to [25:21] start that business or I don't know, [25:23] become a ballet dancer in Europe or [25:25] whatever that are [25:26] held back by potentially some form of [25:29] fear, [25:30] you know, is there is there anything [25:32] that one can offer them to get them just [25:34] to take [25:36] that that first initial step, which [25:37] seems to be the hardest, like getting [25:39] off the couch or getting out of quitting [25:40] the job [25:41] that you you you might offer to your [25:43] children if they came to you. [25:44] Yeah, yeah. I just think that failure is [25:47] um [25:48] I think failure is like the greatest [25:49] gift. I think failure is like it hurts [25:52] so bad, but failure is like is a part of [25:55] life and if you're not willing to accept [25:56] that, like failure is part of it. You've [25:58] got to keep failing. [26:00] Um [26:01] Anvil. The story of Anvil. You know, [26:04] this I made a whole video about this. I [26:05] made a YouTube video about this. [26:08] Um [26:09] and then the leads the there's a movie [26:11] called Anvil. [26:12] I think it's called The Story of Anvil [26:13] or something like that. Anvil was this [26:15] like big hair rock band in the '80s. [26:19] And they opened for like Def Leppard. [26:21] You know, like 50,000 people kind of [26:23] thing, but they never headlined. They [26:25] never broke through. [26:27] They were the always the opening act. [26:29] They were always like the bridesmaid, [26:30] never the bride. [26:31] And the movie opens showing these huge [26:33] concerts in the '80s and Anvil just [26:35] rocking out and then it cuts and it [26:37] shows the lead singer. [26:39] And he lives in Canada and he drives a [26:40] little van. He delivers food to old [26:43] people making minimum wage, like barely [26:45] able to keep his head above water. And [26:47] he performs still in his leather outfits [26:49] as like this middle-aged 50-year-old guy [26:52] to like six people and they'll be just [26:53] drinking beer and he's there giving it [26:55] his all. And the movie is about how [26:57] relentless this guy like he's just not [26:59] willing borrows money from his sister to [27:01] record an album. Nobody buys it. Can't [27:02] pay her back. She had kids and [ __ ] [27:04] Like it is the most devastating story [27:07] you've ever seen because he's unwilling [27:10] to give up that dream. Like he just [27:11] wouldn't let it go. It was his whole [27:13] life. [27:14] And then this documentary comes out and [27:15] it's [ __ ] fantastic. And because of [27:18] the documentary, [27:19] Anvil blows up. [27:21] And all of a sudden he is that [27:23] superstar. Like on tour selling out [27:25] arenas in Japan and [ __ ] Like he did [27:27] it. [27:28] Had he given up at any point in time, [27:31] the the documentary wouldn't have been [27:33] interesting. It would have just been [27:34] another person who threw in the towel. [27:35] But they made the like a filmmaker saw [27:37] this story and was like that's crazy. I [27:40] need to tell that story and it yielded [27:42] that success. Had he not been willing to [27:44] take on 40 years of failure, 30 years of [27:46] failure, [27:47] um he would have never found success. [27:50] And I think that's the most extreme [27:52] version of that. The reason why I was [27:54] interrupting myself is because I made [27:56] that YouTube video about that's [27:58] basically the story I just told you. And [28:00] like the director reached out and was [28:02] like whatever the little guy's name, the [28:03] lead singer of Anvil. He's like, "Dude, [28:05] he loved your YouTube video." And I was [28:06] like, "Yes!" I was like starstruck. You [28:09] know what I mean?" [28:10] Um but I think failure is overrated. I [28:12] think failure people are so scared of [28:14] failure and I think the fear of failure [28:16] is that it's the fear of what other [28:18] people are going to think about you. [28:20] Persistence. [28:22] That's what I heard through that story [28:23] as well. Just this almost [28:26] objectively delusional persistence [28:28] towards a goal. And I don't know if [28:29] those words are correct because in that [28:31] situation I [28:33] I question whether Anvil's success was [28:34] ever really making it or the journey [28:36] itself was the success. But in your [28:38] story I see the same level of like [28:41] persistence that a bystander would go [28:43] that guy's crazy. Because there was [28:46] various stats I saw about how long it [28:48] took you to get to various success [28:49] milestones. Even when you started daily [28:51] vlogging, I think it took you five years [28:53] to get to like 400,000 subscribers. [28:55] Yeah. Throughout your story there's this [28:58] there's this persistence where I go [29:00] this guy would have carried on doing [29:02] this because he wasn't doing this for [29:04] any particular milestone. [29:06] What role does persistence play? [29:08] It's funny cuz persistence is such a [29:10] it's a more accurate word, but the word [29:13] I've been using lately is patience [29:15] because I think it's so much less sexy. [29:17] Mhm. I think persistence is like [29:19] like under the picture of the like [29:21] little kitten hanging off the branch, [29:22] it's like persistence. [29:24] You know what I mean? But they'll never [29:25] say patience. Patience is so [29:26] unattractive. [29:28] And when people say to me like what's [29:29] the one piece of advice you give to an [29:31] aspiring creator and you know, [29:34] patience. Like patience above every [29:36] because like if you're not willing to [29:38] give up, if you're willing to stick with [29:39] it for you will find success or you'll [29:41] die trying, which case [ __ ] it. Like [29:43] whatever. You know, you're not going to [29:45] be that [29:46] person in the palliative care saying, I [29:49] wish I had hadn't given up cuz you [29:51] didn't give up. You just kept going. [29:53] You're going to be that person that's [29:53] like, I've got one day left. I can still [29:56] pull this [ __ ] off. [29:57] But patience is a really unsexy way [30:01] of saying it and I think you need to [30:02] remove the sexiness. You need to remove [30:04] the sensationalism that has that has [30:07] that inspiration has [30:10] been perverted with. [30:12] Is this idea of like it's this romantic [30:14] beautiful thing. It's not. It's [ __ ] [30:16] awful. [30:18] Like failing year in and year out and [30:20] having everybody roll their eyes at you [30:22] and like [30:23] you know, whether you're a musician [30:24] who's performing at the mall and no [30:26] one's paying attention to you or you're [30:28] that YouTuber uploads and you get zero [30:29] views. Like it's [ __ ] awful. It's [30:31] embarrassing. You're a loser. [30:34] Like I talked to to Mr. Beast Jimmy and [30:37] it's like his war stories [30:40] from when he started YouTube and he was [30:41] using his like mom's busted compact [30:43] computer with the built-in webcam making [30:46] these videos that no one watched. [30:48] They're all deleted scrubbed from the [30:49] internet now. They're terrible. And just [30:51] like him going to school the next day [30:53] and it's like two of his friends from [30:54] school saw him [30:56] and both acknowledge how terrible they [30:57] were. Like that kind of like [31:01] being told you're that's that's failure. [31:02] Being told you suck over and over and [31:05] over and over and then seeing how much [31:08] you suck be quantified [31:11] by a lack of views or no one showing up [31:13] to your concert or no one laughing at [31:15] your jokes cuz you're a stand-up [31:16] comedian or no one showing up to your [31:18] restaurant cuz you're a chef. Like that [31:21] sucks. Starting an online store no one [31:23] buys your [ __ ] t-shirts. That sucks. [31:26] Failure sucks. [31:28] So like combine that with patience. Like [31:31] that suck? Are you willing to do that [31:32] for 20 years? If you're not, don't [31:34] [ __ ] bother, man. [31:36] Don't bother. [31:37] And that's why I like the [31:39] the plainness of the word patience is [31:43] cuz it's it that is what it is. [31:46] Persistence. Persistence is like, oh, [31:48] you're at mile 22. Persist, man. You'll [31:50] get across the finish line in four short [31:52] miles. That's beautiful and fun and [31:53] hardcore. That patience that you and Mr. [31:57] Beast have both shown and many others, [32:00] where does it come from? Because [32:01] objectively any any sane person, if [32:03] everyone's telling them they're a loser [32:04] and they suck and their parents are [32:05] saying you better go get a real job. [32:07] Anyone [32:08] who's acting in line with their [32:10] their apparent incentives in that moment [32:12] would quit. [32:13] I think very simply it comes for for me [32:17] and I think probably for Jimmy, too. [32:18] We've talked about it. He and I have [32:19] talked about it, but there was no [32:22] plan B. There was no other option. You [32:24] know, like I [32:25] I had no backup plan. There was nothing [32:27] else I could do. It wasn't like I had a [32:30] college education and there was like a [32:31] job in [32:32] an ad agency waiting for me where I [32:34] could just say [ __ ] you'll make 80k a [32:36] year and get a nicer apartment and relax [32:38] and have a nice go of it. It was like if [32:40] this doesn't work, I'm back in the [32:41] kitchen making 725 an hour. Like you [32:44] know getting money from the state so I [32:46] can pay for [32:48] like groceries on a [ __ ] wick. I was [32:51] on wick. Women, infants, and children. [32:52] It was a card. You'd swipe it and you [32:54] would pay for your diapers and milk and [32:55] that's it. If you tried to buy like a [32:57] Nintendo with it, it wouldn't work. Like [32:58] that I remember that. That's was the [33:01] fallback. That was the alternative. [33:03] Um every single turn that was the [33:05] alternative. Like I moved to New York [33:07] City [33:08] and I was here for 3 months. I had a [33:09] 3-month sublet that my brother's [33:11] ex-girlfriend paid for. [33:14] She was like, I'll loan you the money. I [33:15] was like, cool. [33:17] It was her parents' credit card that [33:18] paid for it. And it was like 1,800 [33:20] bucks. 600 bucks a month. 400 bucks a [33:22] month for 3 months. I shared a In any [33:24] event. [33:25] That lease was up. I had nowhere to live [33:27] in New York. I was like, [ __ ] what do I [33:28] do now? I moved in with some This this [33:31] guy was like, hey man, I need extra [33:32] money. If you want to sleep on my couch, [33:34] my dad pays my rent so you can sleep on [33:36] my couch and just give me like 300 bucks [33:38] a month and that way the money goes to [33:40] me. I was like, deal. [33:42] And I slept on his couch for exactly 11 [33:44] nights from September 1st to September [33:47] 11th, 2001. And then the morning of [33:50] September 11th, the entire apartment [33:52] blew up [33:54] with me in it and him in it. And I [33:56] remember like later that day like [33:58] getting on the phone with my dad [34:00] and like the towers are still on fire [34:02] and my dad being like [34:04] I think it's time for you to come come [34:06] home now. Come back. And I was like, [34:08] what are you talking about? Like what [34:11] what are you talking? What do you mean? [34:12] Why would I come back? [34:13] And he was like, terrorists blew up your [34:15] apartment. You have no job. You have no [34:17] prospects. You have no money and now you [34:19] have nowhere to sleep. I'm I'll figure [34:23] that out. I'll be fine. [34:24] Later, Dad. [34:26] Um like that's that that's patience. [34:29] That's delusional patience. [34:31] But you asked why. Like what fuels that [34:33] patience? The plan B was literally [34:35] moving back to southeastern Connecticut [34:37] and getting a job in a restaurant. [34:39] I read a study once about this whole [34:41] idea of plan A thinking and they take a [34:43] group of people and they tell them to do [34:45] a puzzle and it and in exchange for [34:47] doing the puzzle um correctly, they'll [34:49] get a a snack. [34:50] So they take two groups and they say, [34:52] okay, do this puzzle. If you do it [34:53] correctly, you'll get a snack. Then they [34:54] take another group and they say, do the [34:55] same puzzle. If you do it correctly, [34:57] you'll get a snack. But then they say to [34:58] the group, you can also get the same [35:00] snack just down the hall in the vending [35:02] machine. [35:04] And in the second group where they're [35:05] given a plan B to get the snack, [35:08] motivation level levels drop. They spend [35:10] less time trying to do the puzzle um and [35:12] their performance towards doing the [35:14] puzzle comments as well. Just by being [35:16] aware that they can get the same reward [35:18] down this down the hall, [35:21] performance drops. And if there was ever [35:22] a case for this psychology and they've [35:24] done this multiple times in multiple [35:26] studies, but it is pretty solid evidence [35:28] that even the presence of a plan B can [35:30] reduce motivation towards your plan A. [35:32] Completely. [35:34] Completely. I mean I wish I knew that [35:36] study cuz that's such a beautiful [35:39] beautiful illustration of what it is and [35:41] also what it means to have a a knife at [35:43] your back. Mhm. Do you remember the [35:45] thing I used to say back then when I [35:47] first started to find success [35:49] and I would always be like [35:52] my life is like I'm running from a pack [35:54] of starving wolves. If I slow down at [35:58] all, I will be eaten alive. Like I have [36:01] one choice and it's to keep going as [36:03] fast as I can or I'll be torn to pieces. [36:06] And that's what it felt like and I love [36:08] that. Like that sounds so like negative [36:10] and dark, but like I love that. It was [36:11] such like a motivation. [36:13] And I pitied the friends. Like I [36:15] remember I first moved to New York City, [36:16] my first summer here. [36:19] I don't know how, but I like fell in [36:20] with this like [36:21] clique of because I thought the girls [36:23] were pretty, but like these rich kids. [36:25] And I'd go out with them. And I just [36:26] remember like the way they would pick up [36:27] the tab. And they're my age. We're all [36:30] like 19, 20 years old and they're [36:31] picking up like, you know, hundreds of [36:33] dollar bar tabs and like always had [36:35] taxis. Like a taxi to me was like [36:38] you know, it's like a private jet. Like [36:39] you They were like I had all this money [36:41] and I would always kind of look at them [36:43] with this kind of like [36:44] jealously and like it was less of a [36:46] jealousy and more just fantasizing. Like [36:48] imagine [36:50] if I was the same age I am now, but I [36:52] had a credit card with an unlimited [36:53] amount of money. Like I went to her [36:55] apartment. She lives on like the 26th [36:57] floor. She has a two-bedroom apartment [36:59] and she lives alone. [37:00] I'm sharing a 300 square foot studio [37:02] with strangers I met on Craigslist. We [37:05] have to wait in line to use the bathroom [37:07] in the morning. [37:08] And I fantasized about what that would [37:10] be like. And then [37:12] seeing as they got older and as I got [37:14] older and them sort of them sort of [37:16] wandering and not sure where they want [37:18] to go in life and all of that whereas [37:20] for me it was such a you know, there was [37:22] such a defined path. [37:24] Cuz I didn't have any of those luxuries [37:26] or any of those benefits that I now look [37:29] at back at that as like being virtuous. [37:31] So how do you do that for your kids? [37:33] Well, that's the million-dollar question [37:34] cuz it's like I never want my kids to [37:36] feel the [37:38] that [ __ ] that I had to feel. Like [37:39] the shame of like always hiding in the [37:42] bathroom when the bill came. [37:45] I was like I would always you know, like [37:46] I would always do something. I wasn't [37:48] just like a total take, but like [37:51] I just you know, like I always kind of [37:53] felt like a scumbag cuz I was never able [37:54] to contribute the way that other people [37:56] were and like that's a really shameful [37:57] thing and [37:58] like I can remember so many times like [38:01] when I would meet a young lady [38:03] and she'd be like, can we go back to [38:04] your place? And the excuses that I would [38:06] come up with [38:07] cuz I like lived in an SRO for a while. [38:09] I lived in a halfway house that I bribed [38:11] my way into. A halfway house for anyone [38:13] that doesn't know in Europe is a It's [38:15] where you get out of jail and you're not [38:17] allowed to live normally yet in in the [38:20] public. That's right. So they put you [38:22] into a building where they can monitor [38:24] you. [38:25] How did you get in there? [38:26] I bribed the guy at the door. [38:29] Um there was like a guy behind glass [38:31] with like a little slot. [38:33] And you'd have to check in and check [38:34] out. And I went there and I was like, [38:36] hey, [38:37] do you have any open rooms? And he was [38:38] like, no, get out of here. And I came [38:39] back with a carton of cigarettes with a [38:41] hundred-dollar bill in it and I was [38:42] like, I need a room. [38:44] And he was like, all right. He was like, [38:45] 531 is yours, right? Your name there. [38:47] And he was like, it's $450 a month cash [38:49] or whatever it was. Interestingly, when [38:51] you tell that story of being in a [38:53] halfway house and having no money and [38:54] all these things, uh objectively someone [38:56] who looks at that situation and goes, oh [38:57] man, I feel so sorry for you. Like I was [38:59] so psyched. But this speaks to how [39:01] perspect like [39:03] a mindset and a perspective can turn [39:05] hell into heaven or heaven into hell. [39:07] Yeah, I mean like I I've That's some The [39:09] reason why I learned about that is it [39:11] was my I had a friend her cousin lived [39:15] there. And he was like, here's how I got [39:17] in. I bribed the door guy. And he's [39:19] like, it's cool. It's like, don't talk [39:20] to anybody in the building. And he's [39:22] like, you know, some of the people in [39:23] here are undocumented immigrants and a [39:25] lot of them are like they just got out [39:27] of jail. [39:28] I was like, all right. That's cool. And [39:30] he's like, some of them are homeless [39:31] people that were given these rooms. I'm [39:32] like, okay. I can handle all that. And [39:34] they like told me the whole thing of how [39:35] to get in there. And you had no bathroom [39:38] and no kitchen. [39:40] How did this change, Casey? I know video [39:43] had come into your life around [39:45] Video came into my life before I moved [39:46] to New York City. That was the catalyst [39:48] is [39:49] um [39:50] my baby mama dumped me. I came into New [39:53] York to hang around my brother Van, who [39:55] I like worshipped, and he had just [39:58] bought He was doing like temp work. [39:59] Right. He lived in Brooklyn. He had [40:01] bought the first iMac, like that the one [40:03] that was like shaped like a big [40:05] blue TV, [40:07] and it came with like footage of like a [40:09] dog in a um plastic like kitty pool, a [40:14] pool for children to play in, and the [40:15] dog was getting a bath. So, you could [40:17] play edit with the footage that came [40:19] with it. [40:20] And he and I would just kind of edit [40:21] that footage over and over. So, we [40:22] didn't have a camera. So, I bought a [40:24] camera, and he had a computer, and I [40:26] came in and we'd like film stuff and [40:27] edit videos of it. [40:29] And I was like, I can figure this out. [40:30] And I like maxed out a credit card and [40:31] started making terrible videos. Then I [40:33] was like, that's it. I'll become a [40:34] filmmaker. And then I moved to New York. [40:36] Like it was one of the three things I [40:37] brought to New York when I moved here [40:39] was this huge iMac and like a backpack [40:42] full of clothes and then like my BMX [40:43] bike, which was stolen the next day. And [40:45] you're like 19 at this time. [40:48] Yeah. What was it Do you ever think [40:49] about the psychological reasons why you [40:51] were so drawn to video and storytelling [40:54] generally? [40:55] I don't know I I have an answer to that, [40:57] but I don't know if this is the why I [40:58] was drawn to it or maybe I've just said [41:00] this so many times it's become [41:02] my default response, but I definitely [41:05] felt like I never had a voice. You know, [41:07] I think it's because I was like [41:09] a third out of four kids or like I never [41:12] did well in school. I was always in [41:13] trouble, so the teachers never listened [41:15] to me. I was always in trouble and [41:17] getting in fights and stuff, so my [41:18] friends' parents never liked me. [41:20] Um [41:21] and I just felt like I I was never [41:23] heard. [41:24] And then I started to make videos, I was [41:26] able to kind of articulate my thoughts [41:28] or an idea in the form of a video, and [41:30] people would respond to that. So, I [41:32] think that was part of it, but [41:35] I don't know. I think I also just [41:36] liked it. Like there was something about [41:38] it that felt so fun. [41:40] And there was something in the end that [41:41] you would have that was like this [41:42] finished fun thing. Did you like movies? [41:46] Yeah, but I was never like a cinephile [41:48] as a kid. You know, like I had my [41:49] favorites. You know, like I loved the [41:51] movie Big. And I do remember in seventh [41:54] grade we got to do um this program where [41:57] you could like choose a profession and [41:59] then you got to go do that job. [42:02] And like there's a Pfizer pharmaceutical [42:05] had like its headquarters in nearby [42:07] town. So, like a lot of the kids went [42:09] there to be chemists or scientists and [42:11] like they got to go spend like two hours [42:12] at Pfizer. There's a submarine military [42:15] base, a lot of kids got to go onto the [42:16] base and see what it's like to be in the [42:17] Navy. [42:19] Um and mine was, I want to work at a [42:21] video rental store [42:23] because I want to get paid just sit and [42:25] watch movies all day. [42:26] And they're like, all right, I guess we [42:27] can organize that for you. And I [42:29] remember going there and it was like [42:30] this kid and he was like, yeah, I work [42:32] the day shift, nobody ever comes by. And [42:33] I was like, what are we doing? And he's [42:34] like, you have to put away those movies. [42:36] It took like three minutes. And I was [42:37] like, now what are we doing? And he's [42:38] like, just wait for customers. So, we [42:40] just sat there and watched TV for like [42:42] eight hours. I was like, this is a job I [42:43] could get into. [42:45] But I don't think it was like the you [42:47] know, like the Quentin Tarantino where [42:48] he worked in a video store and studied [42:50] film. I never had that. [42:52] Do you think that's part of the reason [42:53] you were successful at it though? [42:54] Because your style has always been so [42:58] clearly original in so many ways. That's [43:00] how it feels. It feels like you are in [43:02] fact someone that didn't go to movie [43:04] school, and that's why people resonate [43:05] with it. Yeah, and I I [43:08] I always say that like my filmmaking [43:09] style is because I was never taught the [43:11] right way to do it. So, I was forced to [43:13] find my own way to do it. And I think [43:15] that kind of thinking is at the same [43:18] time as [43:20] sort of like consumer grade video [43:22] creation became this ubiquitous thing [43:24] with computers and editing software and [43:26] cameras for the first time ever in the [43:28] history of humanity, [43:30] you could like the early 2000s, you [43:31] could buy like a DV digital video camera [43:34] and you could buy a computer and plug it [43:35] in and you could edit your own videos. [43:36] So, my aspiration to make videos and [43:40] this machine that let you do it, those [43:43] happened at the exact same time. And [43:44] because of that I was forced to create [43:47] my own style. Like my hard drive was 10 [43:50] GB, so I could edit like [43:52] it was like 12 or 16 minutes of video [43:53] before the hard drive was full. So, no, [43:55] I made really short videos, and that's [43:57] why. Cuz like I didn't have a choice. It [43:58] had to be a short video. [44:00] Um but I do think, yeah, like the lack [44:02] of formal education in that capacity [44:05] forced me to be [44:07] uh a different kind of filmmaker or [44:09] approach it differently anyway. [44:10] Do you look back at [44:11] I'm so compelled by [44:13] originality [44:15] as like a subject and the power of [44:17] originality because when you when a [44:20] couple of people in society or the world [44:22] or business or creativity or movies [44:24] take the risk of being original, [44:27] the issue is [44:29] they draw in a and that originality is [44:31] resonant, they draw in a big audience [44:33] who then look up to them and almost [44:34] confuse that admiration for that person [44:36] with their aspirations for themselves [44:38] and go, I will create like Casey. [44:40] And that is the way to be successful. [44:43] It's a very logical deduction, but it [44:44] seem but it's clearly flawed. [44:46] Because there can be no other Casey. [44:47] It is tremendously flawed. It's what I [44:50] [ __ ] hate about YouTube. Um I call [44:54] this like the the Mr. Beastification of [44:57] YouTube. [44:58] And I have to be very careful here. [45:00] Jimmy's a genius. What Mr. Beast has [45:02] done on YouTube is brilliant, and it's [45:04] because of his brilliance. [45:07] So, [45:08] if this is not to take away from him at [45:10] all, I think he has incredible what he's [45:12] done. [45:13] And he has no control over the fact that [45:16] millions of people are trying to copy [45:17] him. But the fact that millions of [45:19] people are trying to emulate what he's [45:21] doing, that is the Mr. Beastification of [45:23] the platform that I hate. Because [45:25] Jimmy's always been very honest. His [45:27] goal has never been like Ask me my goal [45:29] and now, in the most sort of [45:32] intellectual of terms, I'll look back at [45:34] it and I'll be like, video for me has [45:35] always been a way of [45:36] um a refined self-expression for me to [45:39] take my thoughts and force them into [45:41] this sort of articulate six, [45:43] eight-minute compartmentalized little [45:44] video and share it with the world. Like [45:46] that's been my motivation. [45:48] Jimmy's from day one has just been find [45:50] success. He was a kid who had no money, [45:52] had no resources, had no friends, he had [45:54] nothing. And he's like, this is a tool I [45:56] can use to take me to the highest planes [45:58] of of business and all of that. Jimmy is [46:00] just as passionate about his chocolate [46:02] company, Feastables, as he is about his [46:04] his video creation company, you know, [46:06] Mr. Beast Enterprise. He's just as [46:08] passionate about his philanthropy [46:10] um being successful and helping as many [46:12] people as possible as he is about making [46:14] a video about what it means to live in a [46:16] million-dollar house. Like his passion [46:18] is about that winning. So, for him it's [46:21] beautiful. But in the most reductive [46:23] sense, when people look at that, they're [46:24] like, okay, that's what it means to be a [46:26] YouTuber. All that matters is views. [46:29] And I put next to no value on that. [46:31] None. [46:32] Again, this isn't to take away from [46:34] Jimmy cuz what he's done is incredible, [46:35] but when people aspire [46:37] just to get that view count up, to me [46:40] it's a race to the bottom. I [ __ ] [46:42] hate it. I hate it. And I do think it's [46:44] because of [46:46] people not knowing what to do, so they [46:49] look to see, well, who's successful? [46:50] That's how I'm successful, let me be [46:52] that. And it will never work. It will [46:54] never work. Um it requires [46:57] sort of an introspection of like, no, [46:59] why do I want to do this? What is true [47:01] to me? And then you go and do that. And [47:03] maybe you'll find success, and maybe you [47:04] won't, but at least it'll be true. [47:06] Why does truth end up mattering more in [47:08] that case than [47:10] views? So, if there's one path here and [47:11] I can get a million subscribers by just [47:13] doing a Jimmy uh or Casey knockoff [47:16] channel, or there's this other path [47:18] which I go, oh, there's no blueprint [47:19] here and [47:20] it's never been done before, and I don't [47:22] think anyone's going to like this stuff, [47:23] and it's probably not going to pay my [47:24] bills. [47:25] Why what's the case for pursuing the [47:28] latter, the true path? I I think that [47:30] truth lasts. Truth matters. Like there's [47:34] a direct There's uh no correlation [47:37] rather between the movies that have won [47:39] Best Picture the Academy Award for Best [47:41] Picture over the last 80 years and the [47:43] highest-grossing movies. Those two [47:45] things have been the same like three [47:47] times, four times. Like [47:49] one of them I think was Gone with the [47:51] Wind. [47:52] Meaning that the movies that that [47:55] the movies that the world determines are [47:56] the most quality, most important, [47:59] greatest films, the greatest [48:01] contribution to culture and humanity are [48:04] almost never the same movies that make [48:05] the most money. [48:07] Transformers 9 was a really cool movie. [48:09] I don't [ __ ] remember what happened. [48:11] I think there was a dinosaur in it. [48:13] But like [48:14] you see a movie that affects you. You [48:16] see a movie that that matters to you. [48:19] You see it, Little Dieter Needs to Fly, [48:20] this documentary by Werner Herzog. You [48:22] see The Anvil Story. [48:24] And you're thinking about it. I haven't [48:26] seen The Anvil Story in five years. I [48:27] think about that movie every day. That [48:30] lasts. So, that matters. [48:32] And me as a 42-year-old grown adult, [48:35] like I know in life that's what matters. [48:38] There's always There was always going to [48:40] be junk food, there'll always [48:41] for it. There'll always be an appetite [48:43] for [ __ ] reality TV and [ __ ] and [48:47] you know, like whatever pop stars are [48:49] popular this week and will disappear [48:50] next week. But the musicians that like [48:52] change you, [48:54] the ones that write that song that like [48:56] uh makes you cry, like you'll never [48:58] forget that. So, for me, like if if you [49:02] if you want to be an artist or you say [49:04] you want to be an artist, [49:06] how could there be any other goal but [49:08] that? [49:09] And just to bring this full circle, I [49:10] think the magic of Mr. Beast or Jimmy in [49:12] particular, I don't think he's ever [49:13] wanted to be an artist. And that honesty [49:16] is why I have so much respect for him. [49:18] He's a He's a He's an empire builder, [49:20] and that's what he's wanted to do, and [49:21] he's done that through video creation. [49:24] But um again, not neither here nor [49:25] there, not to digress. For me, it's like [49:28] great work matters. And it does. It [49:31] changes people. Changes me. [49:34] Look at the work that like Spike Jonze [49:35] did. Not his Oscar award-winning movies, [49:38] but like I look at his little weirdo [49:40] music videos that I used to watch when I [49:42] was a kid. And I watched those music [49:44] videos over and over. What's up Fat Lip? [49:47] The music video that he made with Fat [49:49] Lip who was like a kind of a popular [49:51] hip-hop artist who didn't have any money [49:53] and he was like I got this new song [49:54] Spike, but I don't have any money to [49:55] make the video. So they went out and [49:57] they like put Fat Lip in a clown costume [49:59] and they filmed it on a VHS camera. [50:01] It's like one of the my favorite music [50:03] videos ever. [50:04] But I saw that and I was like I can be a [50:06] filmmaker. [50:08] Now if you had made a video just trying [50:09] to get the most views or whatever it was [50:11] instead of just him and his friend Fat [50:12] Lip trying to make something great, it [50:14] might not have done that for me. And [50:16] that changed my world. [50:18] So like if you're going to share your [50:20] [ __ ] inspirational quotes on [50:22] Instagram, then step up. Like make the [50:25] thing that could change the world. Make [50:26] the thing that could affect someone. [50:28] Don't just give me Mickey Mouse [ __ ] [50:30] that's going to get views. [50:32] I I look at both you and Jimmy as [50:34] pioneers, but for very different reasons [50:35] and seemingly for with very different [50:37] motivations. You strike me as someone [50:40] that was really inspired by the art form [50:42] and the storytelling side of like the [50:45] the creative production process. And [50:47] Jimmy took this seems like he took this [50:49] other approach where it was much more [50:51] about what the data was telling him to [50:53] make. Yeah. Both of them created [50:55] originality though. Completely. You [50:57] know? Completely. I think Jimmy is [51:00] in the history of I think Jimmy is the [51:03] most important YouTuber in the history [51:05] of YouTube. And I think that arguably I [51:08] think he's one of the most important [51:10] people in the history of entertainment. [51:12] Full stop. [51:14] I don't know that anyone has built an [51:16] empire that reaches as many people as [51:17] what he's doing. I think like there will [51:20] be case studies taught about him at [51:21] Harvard. [51:23] Um [51:23] I think what he he is a true pioneer in [51:26] every sense of the word. [51:29] Do you care about the views? [51:31] No, but that's easy to say. I'm like you [51:34] know, I don't worry about paying rent [51:36] anymore and like I don't usually don't [51:38] check the prices at restaurants before I [51:40] order dinner. So [51:42] it's easy for me to say. Um [51:44] Obviously like it's it's there was a [51:47] time when that really mattered to me and [51:49] was super super important to me. [51:51] But I've grown up and I've you know, a [51:54] level of financial security which is [51:55] super real. So it's it's less about that [51:58] and more about doing good work. If one [52:00] of your kids came to you and they said [52:02] dad I want to be a YouTuber. [52:05] And what would be the what would be your [52:07] response to just that first surface [52:08] level I mean it's happened. Little [52:10] Francine is like she's so good, too. [52:14] But [52:15] Candace always gets not mad, but she's [52:17] always like take it easy Casey cuz I [52:18] have a tendency to over intellectualize [52:20] it, but I'm like [52:22] Frannie, you can make whatever you want, [52:24] um but you're not allowed to share it. [52:26] And she's like why? I want to get [52:27] subscribers and views. [52:29] And I'm like well if you make it, like I [52:31] want I just want to make sure you're [52:32] making it for you cuz you want to make [52:34] something not because you're looking for [52:36] that [52:37] I don't know words I use with her, but [52:39] like that validation. I don't know if [52:41] she would know that word, but [52:43] And that's when Candace is like take it [52:45] easy Casey. She's eight. And I'm like [52:47] okay. All right, just do your thing [52:49] kiddo. But um [52:52] Yeah, I think like the concern What is [52:54] the concern? Is why? Like if she wants [52:57] to do it cuz she wants to be an artist, [52:59] [ __ ] yes. I will drop everything to help [53:02] you on this mission. If you want to do [53:04] it cuz your little girlfriend at school [53:06] did it and she got 35 likes and you want [53:08] to get more likes than her, then like [53:10] pump the brakes kid. Like that's you [53:13] know, like that's What if she says I [53:14] want to be bigger than Mr. Beast? [53:16] The same thing. [53:18] Then you know, it's like why? Like why? [53:20] Why do you want to do that? [53:22] You know, and also like [53:24] I have fame is a very weird [53:28] very strange thing. Um [53:30] And I think the what the most strange [53:32] thing about fame is [53:34] it's not [53:36] what you think like [53:39] There are people who have achieved and [53:40] felt some degree of fame and there are [53:42] people who haven't. And if you're in the [53:44] haven't camp, there's no way to [53:46] understand the have camp. There's no [53:49] way. [53:50] There's no way. [53:52] And um [53:54] having been over here [53:56] you know, like to see someone aspire for [53:59] that is like you know, I like no way. [54:01] What's the warning? [54:04] The warning is just like if if [54:06] if fame is a byproduct of what you're [54:08] doing, then it is what it is. But if [54:10] fame is the [54:12] end game [54:14] then you're just like one of those [54:15] [ __ ] reality stars with the [ __ ] up [54:16] faces cuz you've had so much plastic [54:18] surgery and like what are you doing? [54:20] What are you offering the world? Like [54:22] why are you here? [54:24] Like you're give you're you're [54:25] benefiting the world in no way [54:27] whatsoever. You're elevating the world [54:29] zero. [54:30] This is pure like narcissism. [54:33] This is just just just for some weird [54:35] ego journey that you're on. [54:38] Um again, this is one of those moments [54:40] where my wife would be like [54:42] back off Casey. She's eight. Let her [54:45] finish her mac and cheese. I wouldn't [54:47] say that to the kid, but like yeah, if [54:48] she says I want to be bigger than Mr. [54:49] Beast, like then yeah, I get nervous. [54:52] What if she I say she says okay, I want [54:53] to do I want to make YouTube videos cuz [54:54] I love creating videos, but I would like [54:56] some advice dad on how to be a [54:58] successful YouTuber. Yeah, you should [55:00] see her. She has a whole channel that is [55:02] stop frame animations of her stuffed [55:04] animals. You're not allowed to have her [55:05] voice in it or her hands in it. You're [55:07] not allowed to identify that it's in our [55:08] apartment. But she makes those and [55:10] they're [ __ ] great and they're funny [55:12] and they're really good. So that like [55:15] yeah, we support we support her so much. [55:17] We buy her the equipment. We help her [55:18] make it. We're part of the audience. We [55:20] have like a family I message thread that [55:23] we distribute the videos on. [55:25] Um she even has her own [55:27] Instagram handle that has zero [55:30] followers. Candace and I don't follow [55:32] it. We pass the phone around to watch [55:34] her Instagram because we don't want her [55:35] to even [55:37] associate one like with why she's doing [55:40] it. [55:40] Even if that like is from us. My sister [55:43] texted me and was like hey, [55:44] you you sent me a screen capture of [55:47] Francine's Tik Tok or whatever. Can you [55:50] send me her account? We're like no. [55:52] This is clearly coming from your [55:54] experience, right? [55:55] Protect them as long as you can, man. [55:58] Keep the kids so far away from that. [56:00] Keep them far away from views and likes. [56:02] Yeah, for from seeking validation. Did [56:04] you ever fall prey to that? [56:07] Uh [56:10] Did I ever fall prey to that? [56:11] Uh [56:12] yeah, but I'm I'm different because I'm [56:14] I was old. [56:16] Like I was literally your age that you [56:18] are right now sitting across from me [56:20] before I had an Instagram account. [56:23] Think about how much more you know than [56:24] an eight-year-old. Yeah. Like for an [56:27] eight-year-old to that's the world that [56:28] she's growing up in, it's a really scary [56:29] place. Like social media we're seeing [56:31] social [ __ ] kids up. We're seeing the [56:34] mental health crisis. We're seeing how [56:35] it's manifesting. We're seeing eating [56:37] disorders because of Instagram. We're [56:39] seeing like all of these social issues [56:41] because of social media. [56:43] And I think wanting to protect your kids [56:45] from that is sort of a universal thing, [56:47] not just someone who has lived in that [56:49] space. [56:50] Um you know, I think about I've had a [56:52] unique experience with it because I was [56:55] I had achieved some level of success [56:57] outside of social media in the world of [57:00] regular old media. Um and then it was on [57:02] social media that I found real success. [57:05] Uh but I was able to do that with that [57:06] kind of hindsight and with that kind of [57:08] clarity of being an adult, being [57:10] pursuing this career for 15 years [57:12] before. [57:14] On social media you found real success. [57:16] Yeah. Was that due to your daily vlog [57:19] predominantly? Is that the was that the [57:21] real catalyst moment to the growth? [57:23] yeah, 100%. You know, like I I [57:26] Van and I my brother Van and I had a [57:27] television show on HBO that we sold to [57:30] HBO in 2008. And that television show [57:33] was exactly my daily vlog. Full stop. [57:36] Only eight episodes or something, wasn't [57:37] Eight episodes. 22 minutes 22 to 24 [57:39] minute episodes. But if you watch that [57:41] daily show, it looks like an early [57:42] version of my vlog. It's identical. It's [57:45] the same exact [ __ ] But that was before [57:47] YouTube was really a thing. YouTube was [57:49] invented in 2000 or launched in 2006 and [57:52] it was really just a place for watching [57:53] like basketball highlight reels and like [57:55] Charlie bit my finger. So you know, we [57:58] put that show on HBO. [58:01] Very highly reviewed, but nobody watched [58:03] it. It was on at midnight on Friday [58:04] nights. Like it wasn't a breakout [58:05] success. [58:07] Um and then Van moved to California. So [58:10] I was kind of on my own and I was like I [58:11] just want to do that. [58:13] So I I tried to sell it to [58:16] MTV. [58:17] And they didn't get it. They're like we [58:18] know this is great. Like I showed it to [58:21] someone there and they brought me in and [58:22] I met with the heads of MTV. Like met [58:24] with some really powerful people. [58:26] They're like this is unlike anything [58:27] we've ever seen. This is fantastic, but [58:29] we're not sure this works on TV. [58:31] I was like okay, cool. [58:33] And then yeah, and then I put it on [58:35] YouTube. And how did that go? [58:38] Well you you know, you talked about the [58:39] numbers before. Like so before my daily [58:40] vlog I was considered like a successful [58:42] YouTuber. Like a celebrated YouTuber. I [58:44] had [58:45] I think it was 280,000 subscribers. And [58:48] it had taken me almost a decade to get [58:50] there. I started in my YouTube channel [58:51] in 2007 maybe and by 2014, [58:54] 2015 [58:56] I had 280,000 subscribers. I had a [58:59] couple movies that went truly viral that [59:00] had like [59:01] 5 10 million views. [59:04] Um [59:04] all of my movies did more than like 50 [59:06] 60,000 views which is amazing. [59:09] Uh and people liked my videos. Like the [59:12] New York Times saw my YouTube videos and [59:14] like make videos for us. [59:16] I was doing that back then. So I by all [59:18] definition very successful on YouTube. [59:21] But then I started my daily vlog. [59:23] And it took whatever that was eight [59:25] years to go from zero to [59:28] couple hundred thousand subscribers and [59:29] my daily vlog went from couple hundred [59:31] thousand subscribers to 10 million [59:33] subscribers in like 18 months. [59:35] It was a kind of like explosion that I [59:37] had never felt in any other capacity in [59:40] my my [59:41] career, my life. What's the lesson that [59:43] you take away from that about [59:45] consistency or compounding or [59:47] you know? Yeah, yeah, that's that thing, [59:49] patience. I wasn't really doing anything [59:51] different. I mean, certainly I was [59:52] working much harder to create a video [59:54] every day. [59:55] Um it was hard work. But really it was [59:58] just like [60:00] I had this square peg [60:02] and I tried to knock it through [60:04] thousands of [60:06] uh [60:07] round holes for [60:09] 15 years. And like sometimes I was able [60:11] to jam it through and sometimes it would [60:12] kind of fall through and I wasn't able [60:14] to duplicate it. And then all of a [60:15] sudden, like the moons aligned. [60:18] Like the [ __ ] planets aligned, Pluto [60:20] was lined up, the sun the sun shined [60:22] through like right as the locked ark, [60:24] the light came through, the city [60:25] illuminated. And like 2015, [60:29] YouTube was just becoming something [60:31] more. It's the first generation that [60:33] grew up on YouTube. Like it'd been [60:35] around for, you know, nine years and [60:37] people had a relationship with this [60:38] platform. [60:40] And no one was doing anything of any [60:42] significant production quality. [60:44] And I had 15 years of experience in [60:46] making short videos. I brought all of [60:48] that to YouTube. [60:50] And then just the episodic aspect of it. [60:52] So it was like, you know, [60:54] make one video of me running around New [60:55] York City, hanging out with my wife, [60:57] having lunch, doing something else and [60:59] then the video is over and it's like, [61:00] oh, who's this [61:01] funny looking guy in New York? Whatever. [61:04] Do that seven days in a row and you're [61:06] like, oh, this is kind of fun. I get to [61:07] hang out with this guy. [61:09] Do it 300 days in a row and it's like [61:11] I've become part of your life. [61:13] And that just snowballs. Like it [61:15] snowballs in every way. It snowballs [61:17] algorithmically. And that's what those [61:19] that quantitative explosion was. It [61:21] snowballs financially. Cuz you get paid [61:23] whatever, call it a tenth of a cent per [61:25] view and that doesn't mean much if [61:27] you're getting 10 views. But if you're [61:29] getting a hundred million views, the [61:31] money starts to become substantive. [61:33] Um brands, the kinds of companies you [61:36] always wanted to work with. Maybe one [61:38] out of every hundred creative directors [61:39] at an agency has seen your videos, but [61:42] all of a sudden you go from getting a [61:44] hundred thousand a month to a hundred [61:45] million a month. And now every creative [61:47] director has seen your videos and like, [61:49] we want to work with that guy. [61:51] And it just it just was, you know, just [61:53] it happened so quick and was so [61:55] explosive and so exciting and so fun. [61:58] Sounds like that was your anvil moment [62:00] in some respects. Like the you'd put in [62:02] 15 years of work and then your [62:05] craft and patience had met opportunity [62:07] in a way. And people might look at those [62:09] moments and go, oh, that was, you know, [62:10] that's luck because, you know, you just [62:12] But what is the rebuttal to that? What's [62:14] the like [62:14] right. It was luck. [62:16] But like luck is What is it? Luck is [62:18] where [62:19] preparation meets opportunity. [62:21] I'd just been preparing myself for that [62:23] moment for 15 years, you know? And then [62:26] the opportunity opened up and I was [62:27] right there. [62:28] And the truth is like most of us, yeah, [62:29] opportunity just flies by us all day [62:31] every day when we're not ready for it. [62:33] Um I was seeking it for that long. [62:36] And you know, there's some other [62:37] circumstances too. My friend Max pointed [62:39] this out to me when he and I were having [62:40] a meeting last week, which was like [62:42] when I launched that YouTube channel [62:45] um the the daily vlog rather, when I [62:47] launched that in 2015 [62:49] I had had a show on HBO that they bought [62:52] for $2 million. I had had movies that I [62:55] produced, two of them, in the Cannes [62:57] Film Festival. I won the Cassavetes [63:00] Award at the Independent Spirit Awards, [63:02] which was like the Academy Awards for [63:04] indie films. Like [63:06] I had a I worked at the New York Times. [63:08] I made movies for Nike. I had by every I [63:11] had worked for myself at that point in [63:13] time for 12 years in my own studio. [63:16] I had by every definition achieved [63:18] success. [63:19] But at the exact time I launched that [63:21] YouTube channel I was $200,000 [63:24] in debt. [63:26] Meaning I was more broke than than when [63:28] I was on welfare getting checks for my [63:30] kid because I was so deep in debt [63:34] because, you know, the the year [63:35] preceding that I was invited to MIT um [63:39] as a fellow. And as a high school [63:42] dropout, it was like no greater honor [63:44] than to get to go to one of the most [63:46] prestigious academic institutions on the [63:48] planet and be invited there. [63:50] Um and I remember going there and being [63:52] like, whatever I do on the other side of [63:53] this is going to be different from what [63:54] I'm doing now. [63:55] And what I was doing then was making TV [63:57] commercials and doing fun stuff like [63:59] that at a good career. Around that time [64:01] you read [64:02] this book. Yeah. [64:04] What was um [64:05] what was so [64:07] inspiring or perspective shifting about [64:09] that book, Hatching Twitter? [64:11] It wasn't around that time. So I went to [64:13] MIT as a fellow. Mhm. I worked out of [64:16] the MIT Media Lab. [64:18] And my lab group was called the Social [64:20] Computing group. [64:21] Mhm. And it was, you know, eight or 10 [64:23] technologists, one artist who was a [64:25] painter, and then me. [64:27] And I never and still to this day I [64:30] don't know what I was doing there. [64:31] I'm incredibly close to the professor. I [64:33] talk to him all the time. He's since [64:35] left there and he is a mentor of mine, [64:37] somebody I speak to regularly. I still [64:39] don't know what I was doing there. [64:41] So mostly I just observed. Like I was [64:43] given no assignment. I just observed. [64:46] And I didn't have any friends. I was [64:48] living in Boston. My pregnant wife was [64:50] alone in New York City hating me cuz I [64:51] abandoned her. [64:53] And I read this book. [64:55] And all I knew is that when I was there [64:57] I wanted to figure out what to do next. [65:00] And the magic of Hatching Twitter [65:02] By the way, Nick Bilton has since become [65:04] a good friend. But the magic of this [65:06] amazing book is it reveals [65:09] the madness that was a technology [65:11] startup. Like the chaos. Like, you know, [65:15] these guys are all very smart, all the [65:17] guys that started Twitter. But like I [65:20] don't think they're smarter than me. [65:22] Like I think that like there's like you [65:24] have like regular people and like smart [65:27] people and then like these geniuses that [65:29] you just can't relate to. And I think [65:31] that like I live somewhere between like [65:34] regular and close to smart but not fully [65:36] smart. And I think these guys were like [65:39] they're just smart, persistent people [65:40] that wanted to do something. I was like, [65:41] I can do what they did. I can do that. [65:44] And when I left MIT I was like, I'm [65:47] going to start a technology company. [65:50] And I didn't know what that meant, but [65:51] it just sounded like a great idea. [65:53] Um but the whole time I was at MIT I [65:55] wasn't making any money. So I was living [65:57] off my credit cards and off my debt. My [65:59] business had a revolving line of credit [66:01] at Chase Bank that was maxed out. [66:04] And then I started this company, which [66:05] was basically just meeting with people [66:07] and telling them I wanted to start a [66:08] company. [66:09] And yeah, and so six months later I was [66:12] $200,000 in debt. I couldn't afford my [66:13] half of rent that I owed to my wife [66:16] who was pregnant. Um and that's when I [66:19] started a daily vlog and started a [66:21] technology company. [66:23] And it made sense. [66:26] But the reason why I give that long [66:27] preface about like I had found all this [66:28] success is it was like I found all that [66:30] success. I knew there was snack down the [66:32] hall if I didn't want to do the puzzle. [66:34] And I was like, [ __ ] that. Let me burn [66:36] it to the ground. [66:37] Like let me go $200,000 in debt and do [66:40] something that I have no idea I've never [66:42] written a line of code in my life. Let [66:43] me start a technology Let me start a [66:45] software development company. [66:47] I've still never written a line of code [66:48] in my life, but let me do that. That's a [66:49] good pursuit for me. [66:51] Um and that's what I did. [66:53] I don't know what I'm not sure what I [66:54] was thinking. [66:56] What were you thinking? [66:57] I don't know. [66:58] It felt like a great idea. [67:01] It also like How old are you at this [67:02] point? You're what, 30? 35? Yeah, and I [67:05] also like those guys were such [67:06] superstars to me. Like Mark Zuckerberg, [67:08] like that in The Social Network, the [67:10] movie The Social Network, that scene [67:12] that juxtaposes him just sitting in his [67:14] dorm room writing code with all the cool [67:16] kids getting on that bus, going to the [67:17] party with all the hot girls and he's [67:19] just [67:20] I was like, I want to be that guy. [67:22] And also like I didn't think of anything [67:23] more explosive. It was like I was still, [67:26] you know, I'd had financial success, but [67:28] like the $2 million from the HBO thing [67:30] didn't make me a millionaire. It's like [67:32] cut in half from taxes, you're at a [67:34] million, pay back our investor, you're [67:35] 400,000 left over, there's two of us, [67:37] give half that to Van, it's $200,000. [67:39] And then three years goes by and it's [67:41] like you're making like middle class [67:43] income for three years. You know, we're [67:44] not rich. [67:46] And I was like, I want to be rich. Like [67:47] I want to be a billionaire. [67:49] Let me start a tech company. That's how [67:51] I'll get there. Unqualified. [67:53] I mean, when I look through your story I [67:55] see someone who was seemingly [67:56] unqualified to pursue the things that he [67:59] pursued over and over again. You weren't [68:01] qualified to get into movies. There was [68:02] no formal education by any objective [68:05] standards. You weren't qualified to be [68:06] starting a tech company. [68:08] Um What was I thinking? What is [68:10] unqualified and like cuz I think most [68:12] people would say, well, I I'm not a tech [68:14] entrepreneur. They would like self-label [68:16] and then disqualify themselves from [68:19] doing that. And I think in most people's [68:20] lives they're actually spending more [68:21] time disqualifying themselves [68:23] psychologically, but you seem to be [68:25] taking the opposite approach, which is [68:26] you seem to be qualifying yourself for [68:28] things that you're objectively [68:30] unqualified to be pursuing. I I had this [68:32] conversation with Candace, my wife, last [68:33] night because it was like [68:35] what do we do with these little girls, [68:37] our daughters, to show them they can do [68:39] anything? [68:41] And if they were boys, I knew what to [68:44] do. If they were boys, force them to [68:46] work with their hands. [68:47] Like it's one of my regrets with my son. [68:49] My son is 25 now and he's a superstar. [68:52] He's fantastic. But, you know, he is he [68:54] loved academia and I I indulged him in [68:57] that. [68:58] And I wish I'd been more forceful in [69:02] encouraging him to learn to work with [69:04] his hands. [69:05] Why? [69:05] Because I think you learn something [69:08] about life [69:09] by learning how to build and do things. [69:11] There's this great South Park special [69:13] that's on TV right now and like [69:17] the handymen who like fix your broken [69:19] toilet become the billionaires and all [69:21] the intellects are standing outside of [69:23] Home Depot like holding up signs that [69:25] are like, I'm a I'm a biologist. Please [69:28] hire me." Like we'll trade for the [69:29] because it's like and they're sitting [69:31] around like, "I wish I just learned to [69:33] work with my hands. Why didn't anybody [69:34] tell me?" [69:35] And I think what they're saying with [69:37] that or what I feel what I was able to [69:39] deduce from that is it's just like there [69:41] are universal [69:43] aspects of life and humanity and the [69:45] world that you learn from working with [69:48] your hands. [69:50] And like this rule of mine which is that [69:52] if you don't know what you want to do in [69:53] life, do something you hate. [69:56] And through that process you'll figure [69:58] out what it is that you love. Like I [70:00] learned that I wanted to be a filmmaker [70:01] by scrubbing out chowder pots in that [70:03] [ __ ] seafood restaurant in [70:04] Connecticut. [70:06] 40 50 hours a week just hating it. 90° [70:08] back there in the summer. Stinks. [70:11] Scrubbing that pot. Hated it. It's a lot [70:14] of time thinking about what do I wish I [70:16] was doing. So for like kids, [70:19] it's like, "Yeah, no no no. You know, [70:20] you don't get to go to college. Instead [70:22] I'm sending you to this school where [70:23] you're going to learn how to rebuild [70:24] diesel engines. [70:26] Enjoy it." [70:28] I don't know that I can do that to my [70:29] little blonde-haired, blue-eyed [70:31] daughters. [70:32] Um [70:33] so you asked me about what it means to [70:34] be unqualified. [70:36] I don't know. But I think like, [70:39] you know, when my bicycle was broken at [70:41] home when I was a little kid like I [70:43] didn't have the tool to fix it. I first [70:45] had to build the tool that I could then [70:46] fix my bike with. Like I wasn't [70:48] qualified. I had to find that [70:50] qualification. And everything that I did [70:52] it was the same kind of thing. So why [70:54] wouldn't I think that I'm qualified to [70:56] do anything? Is part of that I say you [70:58] say that and thinking about this idea of [71:00] doing stuff with your hands. Is part of [71:01] that because like the what it teaches [71:02] you and I'm thinking about your bike [71:03] example there is that when something is [71:06] broken or when there is a challenge, [71:08] you're learning you learn at that very [71:10] young age that Casey can solve that [71:13] problem himself. And that lesson of I [71:15] can close the gap between what I want [71:18] and where I am is like an overarching [71:20] superpower for the rest of your life [71:22] where [71:23] it's you know, the gap. The gap between [71:25] where you are and where you want to be. [71:27] The gap between Casey being a guy that's [71:29] you know, making videos to the tech [71:31] entrepreneur. You learned very early on [71:33] in your life that Casey can close the [71:35] gap. [71:36] And a lot of people never learn that. [71:37] They think, "Oh, I'm unqualified to [71:39] close the gap or I don't have the skills [71:40] to close the gap or the money or I'm [71:42] scrubbing pots in the back room. I can't [71:44] close the gap." But that's evidence and [71:46] evidence comes from [71:48] you know, [71:49] closing the gap a couple of times with a [71:51] bike and I had a friend DM me uh [71:56] this week and it was something like I [71:58] don't know what it was but it was this [71:59] thing that was like how to figure out [72:01] who high agency individuals are or [72:03] something like that. And like there was [72:04] like five bullet points and number five [72:05] was like the goals in question. [72:07] Who would you call? George Mack, friend [72:09] of mine, former Is that what it was or [72:10] it was like who would you call if you're [72:11] stuck in a Thai prison to break you out? [72:14] Yeah, so that's George Mack who's a [72:15] former employee of one of my former [72:17] companies. He's a superstar. He's an [72:18] incredible guy. He does tweet threads [72:20] and he did one like last week which is [72:21] how to [72:22] how to spot a high agency individual. [72:24] I think about that a lot because someone [72:26] very close to me [72:28] uh couldn't couldn't find his partner. [72:30] He couldn't find his wife. [72:32] And [72:34] in a moment of panic he thought she had [72:37] been kidnapped. [72:38] Um [72:40] and he's thousands of miles away from me [72:43] and he didn't know what to do. And he [72:45] called me in that moment. He was like, [72:47] "What do I do?" And I was like, "Give me [72:48] all of the information." [72:50] And he gave me all the information and [72:51] he said I was like, "I need more." And [72:52] I'm like asking him all these questions [72:54] and I'm writing it all down. [72:56] And then I'm like, "What are you doing [72:57] right now?" He's like, "I'm going to the [72:58] police station." I was like, "Do not go [73:00] to the police station. Here's what [73:01] they're going to do." And I was like, [73:02] "This is why you don't do that. Here are [73:03] the things you can do to be effective. [73:05] Call the Call the bank. Find out when [73:06] her last transaction was. Figure out [73:07] what her password is on her iCloud [73:09] account." And like going through all [73:11] these facts. I was like, "Do all that [73:12] and call me back." [73:14] And then I hung up with him and I'm [73:15] like, "How do I solve this problem?" [73:17] And it wasn't [73:19] there was never a moment of is there [73:21] someone that can solve this problem [73:23] that's not me. [73:25] It was that thing that's like says [73:27] either in Lockheed Martin or at NASA [73:29] where it says in like 100 ft letters, [73:31] "It won't fail because of me." [73:33] Like that's what that moment was. I was [73:35] like, "No, I'm the only person who can [73:37] solve this right now." [73:39] And like sure enough the next phone call [73:41] that I called him it was very Jason [73:42] Bourne. I called him like [73:44] 11 minutes later. I was like, "She's at [73:46] the tennis club. She's asleep on the [73:47] couch." [73:50] And like it was much credit to my [73:51] younger brother Dean who is a um [73:55] who is an actual like jet pilot in the [73:58] Air Force for helping me figure that [73:59] out. But like [74:01] it it was interesting like I was there [74:02] was something about the fact that he [74:04] called me. There's something about the [74:05] fact that I could hear in his voice a [74:07] total uncertainty. And his instinct was [74:11] there has to be a higher authority that [74:12] can solve this problem. And how [74:14] antithetical that was to my own thinking [74:16] which is there's no higher authority. [74:17] There's no one that can solve this [74:20] better than I can solve this right now. [74:22] And I think I applied that to most of [74:24] what I've done throughout my whole life. [74:26] Um [74:27] I remember like when I was really broke [74:29] way back in the day I had a 1986 [74:33] I think Volvo 240. [74:35] Whatever the one that had the dual [74:36] halogen headlight was great year. [74:39] And somebody crashed into the front of [74:41] the car. [74:42] And the estimate to fix it was like 2200 [74:45] bucks. [74:46] And the insurance company just gave me [74:48] that money. [74:49] And I was like, [74:51] "Fuck this." I was like, "I can fix this [74:52] car myself." I remember like but my baby [74:56] mama being like, "What do you know about [74:57] fixing cars?" I'm like, "How hard could [74:58] it possibly be?" And like in that moment [75:01] I took the whole front of the car apart. [75:02] I did not do a good job. I did a good [75:04] enough job. And I pocketed like all of [75:06] it like 150 bucks to replace those [75:08] halogen headlights. Like screwed all [75:10] back together. Um I mean before we [75:12] started this podcast you're like, [75:13] "Casey, what are you doing with your [75:14] time?" I'm like, "Just building out my [75:15] studio. I wanted to build my girls a [75:17] tree fort in there." There was never of [75:18] like who what carpenter do I hire to [75:20] build a tree fort. I was like, "No no [75:22] no. I'm going to do this." How hard can [75:25] it be? [75:26] How hard can Yeah, how hard can any of [75:28] it be? Like give me a big enough pile of [75:30] balsa wood and enough time I will build [75:32] you a spaceship. As a mantra for life, [75:35] how hard can it be? It There's an air of [75:37] naivety which And once you realize how [75:39] hard it can be it's like [75:41] Like I will never do a software [75:43] development company again. If I knew now [75:47] if I knew then what I know now about [75:49] building that company, no [ __ ] way. [75:51] No chance. There's no chance. It sold [75:54] for what? 36 million dollars though [75:56] which is a a success. It was a success. [76:00] A million failures though for that one [76:02] success. [76:03] And the failures keep me up way more [76:05] than the [76:06] success puts me to sleep. What are those [76:09] failures? [76:10] Um [76:12] You know, like some of the really [76:13] key failures were like [76:16] the naivety that an exit is the holy [76:19] grail. Like for me like we were all out [76:21] of money. Like my partner Matt and I cut [76:23] our salaries and the last year and I [76:25] think the last couple paychecks was [76:27] paying out of my pocket. Um so when we [76:29] sold the company and everybody got to [76:30] have a job and everybody got paid out. [76:32] One of the [76:33] one of the aspects of the sale was that [76:36] every employee that had equity would get [76:37] a full cash payout immediately upon the [76:40] sale. [76:41] Um I thought everybody would be psyched. [76:43] But when I told everybody [76:45] they weren't. [76:47] Because for them it was like, "No no, we [76:48] signed up to [76:50] build this company with you. This is [76:52] fun. This is a startup. This is why we [76:53] didn't take twice the salary from [76:54] Facebook. We wanted to do something [76:56] novel with you. [76:57] And now we just get to go work for a big [76:59] company." [77:00] In that moment I feel like I was letting [77:02] down all of these people that helped me [77:05] get there. [77:06] It was like, "Yeah, I got to get this [77:07] fat check. It made me a millionaire." It [77:09] was like, "I got to be a millionaire but [77:10] I I feel like [77:12] I disappointed the people [77:14] who got me there. Like the people who [77:16] like held me up so I could reach the [77:18] top. I let all of them down." And maybe [77:21] that's unfair but that's how it felt. [77:25] That's how it still feels. [77:27] Um feels weird. [77:29] I have zero employees right now. I don't [77:30] have an assistant. [77:32] Your producer had to call a friend of [77:34] ours last night to be like, "I haven't [77:36] heard from Casey in 3 weeks. Is he going [77:38] to show up tomorrow?" Because I don't [77:39] check my email. I don't have an [77:41] assistant. I don't have a schedule. I [77:42] have no one. I mop my own floors. [77:45] And I think a lot of that is like the [77:47] the post-traumatic stress of having 35 [77:50] employees at my tech company and feeling [77:52] like I let a lot of them down and never [77:54] want to feel that way again. [77:56] So I'll just like, "Fuck it. I'll just [77:57] mop my own floors. I might make I might [77:59] miss an appointment. But [78:02] there's a million failures that fall [78:04] underneath that umbrella [78:06] of being a manager, being a terrible [78:08] manager that um I think about way more [78:11] than the moments of elation that were [78:14] you know, selling that company. What was [78:15] that moment like then? If I zoom in on [78:17] your psychology throughout that period, [78:19] you you go on this incredible journey to [78:20] build this business, twists, turns. And [78:22] I mean that's the story of most tech [78:24] startups. Most of them fail. Most of [78:25] them run out of cash. And then you get [78:28] this exit. Um [78:30] objectively people look at that and go, [78:32] "Oh, congratulations. Amazing. You you [78:34] know, smashed it. You're rich. You know, [78:35] you got money now." [78:37] What's going on in your psychology? The [78:38] day you get the call, you call your [78:39] investors. One of your investors I think [78:41] is a good friend of mine and an investor [78:42] in one of my companies, Gary Vaynerchuk. [78:44] Um and then it's done. [78:47] How are you feeling? [78:49] If I was a fly inside your head. [78:51] Eh. [78:53] I mean good. It was like super thrilling [78:55] to get across that finish line. A month [78:57] after then? [78:58] So a month after that, you know, like to [79:00] get specific like the company CNN Turner [79:03] bought our company and [79:06] you know, Matt, my business partner and [79:07] I signed a three-year deal with them to [79:09] stay on and work with them for 3 years. [79:11] And [79:13] Just to [79:14] tell the finish line, they fired us 11 [79:15] months later. 11 months later. So for [79:18] the a month into that it was about how [79:20] How we build this business into a [79:21] success underneath [79:23] this bigger company? [79:26] And it was exciting, but I also think [79:27] there was a huge amount of naivety on my [79:29] part about what the realities of that [79:32] looked like. [79:33] The what I interpreted as ambiguity from [79:36] CNN about what to do wasn't at all [79:38] ambiguity. It was them looking to me to [79:41] lead. And my lack of awareness of that [79:46] um is something I look back at now and [79:48] just sort of shake my head like this is [79:50] what I mean by like a thousand failures. [79:51] Like [79:53] I can tell you and I don't think this is [79:54] an unfair characterization that like [79:57] I think they bought my company because [79:59] they're like this kid is a star and we [80:01] want to we want his reach alone is worth [80:04] this amount of money and as a bonus [80:06] we're getting all of this technical [80:08] know-how and skill and we're getting the [80:09] brilliance of his partner and like this [80:11] is a great deal for us, but we want that [80:13] influence and then he'll use all of [80:15] these brilliant people that he has [80:16] around him to help promote that [80:17] influence. Like that's what they wanted. [80:19] Um I can say that. Uh they also wanted [80:22] to exploit my reach doing stupid Mickey [80:24] Mouse [ __ ] like they had some [80:26] million-dollar deal for me like do [80:27] commercials for a watch company and I [80:29] was like guys this isn't why [80:31] I want to work with you. And I said no [80:33] to that and it was a huge [80:34] Um I can point to all these things like [80:36] them being a big corporation and us [80:38] being a small nimble startup and them [80:40] wrecking that culture. But the reality [80:42] is the reason why we didn't succeed [80:44] under CNN is because of me and only [80:46] because of me. [80:47] It was my failure [80:50] to recognize the opportunity and build [80:51] within that. [80:53] Um and I attribute that to ego. I [80:55] attribute that to naivety. Someone like [80:57] you doesn't belong at CNN, mate. Sure, [80:59] easy to say now, but like [ __ ] you, man. [81:03] I can build a spaceship. I can do [81:04] whatever I want. I'll fix that Volvo. I [81:06] can build a [ __ ] company for CNN. You [81:08] know how incentivized I was? Like if I [81:10] built that company it'd be a success. [81:11] Like the incentives that they gave me [81:13] were out of this world. The people I was [81:15] working with at CNN [81:17] were incredible. They're brilliant [81:19] people. But the only reason it didn't [81:22] succeed was because of me. [81:24] And um I don't know. You asked how I [81:26] felt a month later. [81:27] When I look back at it it's like a month [81:29] later is when I was probably at like [81:30] peak hubris. [81:32] Like I know it all. [81:33] Look what I did. [81:35] I know everything. What about 11 months [81:37] later? 11 months later I was just [81:38] exhaustion. I wanted to get out. [81:41] Just let me let me like when they said [81:42] we're shutting down the company [81:44] I remember it was like super weird. Like [81:46] I was in South Africa with my family and [81:48] they're like we're going to let you know [81:49] before the end of the year and like [81:51] December 31st I like called my kind of [81:53] boss at CNN. I'm like what's going on [81:55] with the company? Are you guys shutting [81:56] us down or are we going to keep going? [81:58] They're like we're going to talk when [81:59] you get back. And we got back and we're [82:00] like we're going to meet here and I'm [82:01] like why don't we just meet at our [82:02] offices or your offices? They wanted to [82:04] meet in like a neutral location. And [82:06] there was like a head of HR or something [82:07] in the meeting. And they're like we want [82:09] to let you both know we've decided to [82:12] shut down the company and release you [82:15] from your or whatever they said. And I [82:17] was kind of like okay, cool. [82:18] Like it like it it was not a big thing. [82:21] It was kind of what I expected. Um but [82:23] it was like a sigh of relief weirdly. [82:26] What what what's your what's your plan [82:27] become for your life? After that? [82:29] Yeah. You know you're this you're this [82:31] guy that's checking off your bucket [82:32] list, the bucket list you had as a [82:33] child. [82:34] You've sold the company, you've built [82:35] the channels, you've you know you've [82:37] made a huge name for yourself in movie [82:39] making. [82:41] At that point 11 months later after [82:43] leaving the HR meeting with the at the [82:45] neutral location [82:47] what is what's the what's the future? [82:48] That's when it got hard. [82:50] Um [82:51] dark. [82:53] That was like a moment of real darkness [82:54] in my life because [82:56] not because of those external factors, [82:58] but just internally. Like the fame that [83:01] was something that I just did not [83:03] understand. Like the only way to [83:04] quantify it was [83:05] I had done like 3 billion views [83:09] in 2 years. Something like that. [83:12] And the content was all me. It was the [83:15] real version of me. I wasn't playing a [83:16] character. I wasn't acting. I didn't [83:18] have on a Superman costume. I wasn't [83:21] like I always say like I love Tyler [83:23] Durden, Brad Pitt's character in Fight [83:25] Club, but if I met Brad Pitt, he's not [83:28] that person. [83:29] You meet me, I am the person you think [83:31] you know. [83:33] And the fame was [ __ ] insane. Like we [83:36] had to move into a higher security [83:38] building in New York City. Like it was [83:39] it got scary. [83:41] That kind of fame. [83:43] And [83:44] when I was winning like putting a video [83:46] out every day and I had this company I [83:47] was cool [ __ ] to talk about. It was it [83:49] was like you know you're like coasting [83:52] on that. But I felt like I wasn't [83:54] winning. Like I didn't want to do my [83:55] daily show anymore. I was exhausted from [83:57] it. CNN had just kind of fired me so I [83:59] wasn't building anything with them. I [84:01] wasn't sure what to do, but I still [84:03] couldn't step outside without like [84:05] being like like Justin Bieber kind of [84:07] swarmed. [84:09] And I didn't know what to do and I kind [84:11] of like started the solar company called [84:13] 368 with my partner at the time Paul. [84:15] That was a cool project. I started up a [84:17] new daily show with my other friend Dan. [84:20] That was kind of exciting. [84:22] Um but basically it just felt like a [84:23] bunch of sort of slow Why'd you say [84:25] dark? [84:27] It's a very interesting Because because [84:28] it was the first time like it was that [84:30] thing that I [84:31] I I I referred to before which is like [84:33] you attribute happiness and fulfillment [84:35] with winning. [84:37] And I had won. Like this was the first [84:39] time in my life where I achieved like a [84:40] level of financial security that [84:44] you know like if I played my cards right [84:46] could have meant financial security for [84:48] the rest of my life. Like for guy who [84:49] couldn't afford diapers, that's a [84:52] [ __ ] journey. That is a big box on [84:54] the list to check off. [84:56] Um you know like for a guy who like made [84:59] would drive around in my car giving [85:00] people VHS copies of my videos. I had 3 [85:03] billion views in 2 years. Like [85:05] that's a big box to check off. Like I'd [85:06] done those things. And instead of [85:08] feeling like I was like [85:11] you know I I had done it and I'd earned [85:13] it. Instead of feeling like I was [85:14] standing on the top of the mountain I [85:15] just kind of was like what what [85:17] what now? Like this isn't [85:20] this isn't it. It wasn't like [85:22] I wasn't running the marathon because I [85:24] wanted to get across the finish line. [85:26] Like I don't know where I've run 24 [85:27] marathons. I don't know where any of my [85:28] medals are. [85:30] I was running it because I loved the [85:31] running. Like I loved it and it kind of [85:33] felt like that was over and I didn't [85:34] know what to do. [85:36] And it kind of yeah got weird. [85:38] Got dark for a little bit. That's when [85:39] we decided like leave New York and move [85:40] to LA and [85:43] If I was a fly on the wall then in that [85:44] moment in your life where it's dark and [85:45] weird, what what do I see in in the [85:48] walls of your home? [85:50] Well, first of all the house is really [85:52] nice cuz CNN had just bought my company. [85:55] So it was a really nice house. Candace [85:57] bought the fancy wallpaper. [85:59] Um but no, it was mostly like I had a [86:01] little baby at the time and then uh um [86:05] like a three-year-old. [86:07] So I was kind of at home chilling [86:10] hiding. I didn't want to go to my [86:11] studio. There'd be too many people [86:12] outside. [86:14] Uh [86:15] and yeah, I'm just unsure, uncertain. [86:18] Like I think so much of our decision to [86:20] move We moved to LA for like 3 years. It [86:21] was a disaster. We moved back to New [86:23] York, but so much of my enthusiasm to [86:25] leave New York was it was just like I [86:26] need to get away from all of this. [86:28] And I pictured like LA like I was moving [86:30] to the moon. Like nobody would know me [86:31] there and I could just go to the beach [86:33] every day and chill out. [86:35] Couldn't have been further from the [86:35] truth, but that's [86:37] so there was like we decided to move to [86:39] LA and we didn't move for another 7 [86:40] months or whatever and those 7 months [86:42] were just kind of me hiding and waiting. [86:44] And Candace, she you've kind of [86:46] indirectly made her famous as well [86:48] because of that whole you know [86:49] everything that happened in that chapter [86:50] of your life, which means that both of [86:53] you can't just like leave live a normal [86:55] life, can't just walk down the street [86:56] together. [86:57] Um how is she feeling in that moment and [86:59] does that [87:00] add strain to the relationship? [87:02] Yeah. I mean it was always the the whole [87:06] that's a whole 'nother podcast, but like [87:08] you know my daily show was effectively [87:11] uh uh [87:12] I was just pulling stories from my life, [87:14] my own real life experiences. Let me [87:16] figure out how to make turn that into a [87:17] narrative. I'm coming on your podcast [87:19] and let me film my journey here and then [87:21] talk about what this is about and then [87:22] my journey home and let me make that [87:25] today's video. And so it was just this [87:28] vacuum. And whatever was closest would [87:30] get sucked in. So she's my wife. She's [87:32] my partner. [87:33] She's my best friend. So she would get [87:34] sucked into the content all the time. [87:37] Mostly she's willing and supportive, but [87:39] not all the time. But I still had to [87:41] make my videos. [87:42] So it had this you know this burden on [87:44] her, this stress on her. Some of it was [87:46] positive, you know she's building her [87:47] own company then and it brought enough [87:49] exposure to her that people were like oh [87:51] I love what she's doing and it yielded a [87:55] a kind of it shined a light on her [87:57] brilliance as a designer and a jewelry [88:00] designer and an entrepreneur herself and [88:03] she embraced all that, but ultimately [88:05] yeah, it was it was a big stress on our [88:07] relationship. [88:08] As you know, Whoop are a sponsor of this [88:10] podcast, which came about from me being [88:12] the biggest fan of their product. It's [88:14] been an absolute game-changer for my [88:15] sleep, for my recovery and for my [88:16] overall well-being. Whoop is a wearable [88:19] device, this thing on my wrist right [88:20] here if you're watching me, that not [88:21] only tracks your health 24/7, but also [88:24] guides you to improve it. It's probably [88:26] the perfect gift for the person who has [88:29] everything or is impossible to buy for, [88:31] which is what my friends say to me, [88:33] because it's the kind of gift that keeps [88:35] on giving offering real-time benefits [88:37] for their health and their wellness [88:39] forever. So if you're on the hunt for [88:41] the perfect present for a loved one or a [88:43] team member or even for you this festive [88:45] season, I would highly highly recommend [88:47] checking out Whoop and they've very [88:49] kindly offered our community here on The [88:51] Diary Of A CEO a special discount just [88:53] for you, but keep this to yourself. If [88:55] you head over to join.whoop.com/ceo, [88:58] you can get that discount. Let me know [89:00] who you get one for and how they get on. [89:03] A quick word on Huel. As you know, [89:05] they're a sponsor of this podcast and [89:06] I'm an investor in the company. It's [89:07] moments like this in my life where I'm [89:09] extremely busy and I'm flying all over [89:11] the place and I'm recording TV shows and [89:13] I'm recording shows in America and here [89:15] in the UK that Huel is a necessity in my [89:19] life. I'm someone that regardless of [89:21] external circumstances or professional [89:23] demands wants to stay healthy and [89:26] nutritionally complete, and that's [89:27] exactly where Huel fits in my life. So, [89:29] if you're looking to try Huel for the [89:30] first time and to get into it and to [89:32] join the Hooligan family, I'd highly [89:33] recommend you try this out. If this next [89:35] 10 years of your life is a movie, [89:38] what is the narrative of this [89:40] this movie? [89:41] I don't know. You ever seen [89:42] Koyaanisqatsi? No. [89:45] It's this amazing movie. There's no [89:47] story at all. It's just beautiful [89:50] establishing shots of cities with weird [89:52] music and nothing happens. [89:54] I was like, that's it. That's what I [89:56] feel like my life is right now. It's [89:58] just like [89:59] it's so beautiful and wonderful. I'm [90:02] doing [ __ ] all right now. I'm doing [90:05] nothing. And I feel guilty cuz I still [90:07] like I get paid jobs and I take those [90:09] paid jobs. I do them as best as I can [90:10] and I think I do a good job with them. [90:12] But I feel a little bit like a um [90:15] a little bit like I'm I'm selling out or [90:17] something cuz I you know I still need to [90:18] make a living and I still can. But I'm [90:20] mostly just riding the momentum that I [90:22] created years ago. And then just like [90:25] like I race home from work every day [90:27] like 4:30 in the afternoon so I can be [90:29] home when my kids get home. And I just [90:31] like sit around like you can ask me out [90:33] to dinner, you can invite me to go to [90:34] the Met Gala. I'm like, ah I can't, man. [90:37] I just go home and play with my kids [90:39] every day. It's my favorite thing. Like [90:41] kids go to bed at 7:30, 8, whatever. Go [90:43] to the gym for an hour. Come home like [90:46] bother Candace for an hour. Watch TV, go [90:48] to bed. Like that's my life and it's fan [90:51] And then during the day like go hang out [90:53] in my studio. It's just this clubhouse. [90:55] Like fun [ __ ] in it. Like build stuff. [90:58] Make things out of wood. Go home. Tell [91:01] Candace I worked a lot today. Play with [91:03] the kids. I just do that over and over [91:05] and over. [91:07] And then it's like Christmas and we go [91:08] visit our family or it's like summertime [91:10] and we like go to the beach. I'm just [91:12] coasting through life right now and it's [91:14] fantastic. Is this a new Casey? [91:18] Because the other Casey seemed to really [91:19] like [91:20] as if they were striving towards some [91:22] bucket list thing that they'd written [91:23] when they were a kid. This Casey seems [91:25] to be Yeah, I mean look, I'm at peace [91:27] right now, but this is not a sustainable [91:30] I'm at peace right now, but I'm hyper [91:32] cognizant that this is not sustainable. [91:34] Why? [91:35] I mean cuz I'll just be broke in like 3 [91:37] years, but um [91:39] moreover like the only thing that brings [91:42] me a sense of true like fulfillment in [91:46] what is a big part of my life is when I [91:48] make something that I think is good. [91:51] Um [91:52] creatively. [91:54] So, like I think I'm a good dad, that's [91:56] that part of my life and I think I'm a [91:57] good husband, that's that part of the [91:58] life and [92:00] I'm super fitness focused and I care a [92:02] lot about my my physical [92:04] um [92:05] existence of it's a part of my life, but [92:07] then there's [92:09] the majority of the pie chart is like my [92:11] professional life. [92:13] And if I'm not making something even if [92:15] I make something that's good and I don't [92:17] share or post it, that checks that that [92:20] does that. I made something great. [92:22] Um [92:23] What did I do recently? Like I made my [92:24] mother-in-law's for 70th birthday. [92:27] And she was like, will you make me one [92:28] of those slideshows? And I know she was [92:30] picturing like, you know, you drop all [92:31] the photos into like Windows slideshow [92:33] maker and push a button. But I made it [92:35] like this great video. We like played it [92:36] at her 70th birthday to all of her old [92:38] lady friends. Nobody saw that video. [92:40] Like that did it for me. [92:42] And I don't feel like I'm like cashing [92:44] that check right now. I don't feel like [92:46] I'm [92:47] if if if I'm looking at that as like a [92:49] staying healthy, it's like instead of [92:51] going to the gym, I'm like eating junk [92:53] food. Instead of going for a jog, I'm [92:55] like sitting on the couch. Like when I [92:57] get to the office, instead of like [92:58] putting my head down and just making [92:59] something great, which I can do, [93:02] I just kind of [93:03] putz around and [93:05] like reorganize my tools every day. Do [93:08] you know what I said earlier this before [93:09] we started recording about this word [93:10] boredom? [93:11] I I used the word boredom not because [93:13] I'm implying that nothing is happening, [93:14] but so many of the creatives I've spoken [93:16] to tell me that you need to have [93:18] chapters and seasons in your life of [93:20] like basically where you're just [93:22] chilling. [93:23] Because those they kind of cultivate an [93:26] energy towards the new thing. Maybe [93:28] maybe it gives you enough time and space [93:29] to stand back from the picture to see [93:31] the whole painting or to I don't know, [93:33] get some inspiration from something your [93:34] kid says to you one day or Yeah, you [93:36] yes. Look, absolutely. Like there's a [93:38] pendulum and my pendulum swung so far [93:41] when I'm making a video a day 800 days [93:43] in a row while running a company with 38 [93:45] employees, while having a wife and a [93:47] brand new baby at home. Like [93:49] you know, I didn't sleep for 3 years. [93:51] Like I was running at full speed and [93:53] millions of people with their eyes on me [93:55] every day. [93:56] And like you could definitely justify as [93:58] like the pendulum swinging in the other [93:59] direction now like I just need this time [94:01] to decompress. [94:02] But I don't accept that cuz to accept [94:05] that is to sort of justify my current [94:07] laziness and general sort of [94:09] laissez-faire attitude towards life. [94:11] Like I recognize how indulgent it is [94:14] right now and I'm not doing this cuz I [94:16] need it. I'm doing this cuz I can. If I [94:19] was broke right now, I'd be [ __ ] [94:20] busting my ass every day. If my kids [94:23] were hungry right now, I'd be busting my [94:24] ass. I'm doing this cuz I can. I'm not [94:27] solving the puzzle cuz right down the [94:30] hallway are all the snacks I could ever [94:32] want and I'm very aware of that. So, I [94:35] hear you, but I do not accept that [94:37] justification. This is just pure [94:39] indulgence. [94:41] And that's all it is. [94:43] It's great. [94:45] Go do what have some snacks and build a [94:46] shelf this afternoon. It's very honest [94:48] of you. I don't think anyone's ever said [94:50] that to me because people do justify [94:52] justify [94:54] their indulgence. It's very interesting. [94:57] What can we expect from you? [95:00] Like can we expect anything? Do you know [95:02] the answer to that? Cuz so many people [95:04] are like ultra fans of you. I think [95:06] there's a anticipation of what's Casey [95:08] what's the next big thing Casey's going [95:09] to do. [95:11] I you know, I don't [95:13] the the short answer like what I've been [95:14] saying this for a while and I haven't [95:15] done it is like [95:16] this version of my life right now that I [95:18] do love, I really just I have all these [95:21] movies written. When I say movies, I [95:23] mean YouTube videos. Written, they're [95:24] like really meaningful and awesome and [95:26] some are deep and some are shallow and [95:29] some are one-day shoots and some are 3 [95:31] weeks of of writing. [95:33] I just want to make those. I just want [95:35] to go to my office every day alone and [95:37] make these videos and put them out on [95:39] YouTube. [95:40] And like I deleted the YouTube Studio [95:42] app from my phone. I don't look at [95:43] comments or views anymore. I don't check [95:46] AdSense. I don't do it. I just click [95:47] upload and then go back to work. [95:50] That's what I want to do right now. [95:52] And when I'm beating myself up about my [95:53] laziness, it's cuz there's no there's [95:55] nothing stopping me from doing that. [95:58] I just I keep kicking the can. But like [96:01] that's what I want to do right now. Like [96:03] that's it. I just want to [96:05] put my head down and make the things [96:07] that I think are great. Give a [ __ ] if [96:09] anybody watches them. You talked about [96:11] privilege earlier and acting on your [96:12] privilege. Yeah, that is the that to do [96:15] that is the ultimate privilege. Like [96:17] there is nothing more. [96:19] And there there's nothing more. That's [96:21] like the most privileged existence. So, [96:24] why aren't you acting on your privilege? [96:25] You've got the lottery ticket. Uh you [96:27] know, I I I think if like just to go [96:30] back and be as [96:32] honest as I is because I don't I don't I [96:35] don't have to. [96:36] And I'm embarrassed to say that, but [96:38] that's the truth. Jack over there, Jack [96:40] Sylvester, he's a produced this podcast [96:42] and directed it with me since the very [96:44] beginning. And you're the reason why he [96:46] got into video. [96:47] He told me many years ago, I think he [96:48] told me 2 years ago when we first [96:49] started this, he says he said Casey is [96:52] his dream guest. Um Jack, I'm glad I uh [96:55] didn't cancel today. [96:57] Thought about it. It's like, you know, [96:59] instead of doing that podcast, sure it'd [97:01] be cool just to sit in my office and do [97:02] nothing again. [97:04] I'm glad I'm here. [97:08] But my my question really is about [97:10] 19-year-old Casey when he first arrived [97:12] into New York City. [97:13] What is the advice that Casey needed to [97:16] hear at that point that he did he just [97:17] didn't get? And I'm speaking to all the [97:19] Jacks out there that are 19. [97:20] [ __ ] that's tough. [97:22] Um a quick digression. [97:25] Like [97:26] hearing that and then knowing that I'm [97:28] like my notes app I have 25 great movies [97:32] that I wrote that I really care about. [97:34] It makes me feel like [97:37] Spike Jonze has this great idea for a [97:39] music video to make with Fat Lip. [97:41] And if he just decided to go make [97:43] shelves and have lunch and not make that [97:45] video, it might not have [97:46] made me get off my Like that's a [ __ ] [97:48] motivator. Like that makes me want to [97:50] create stuff. [97:51] But what's the one piece of advice? [97:56] I think that like nobody cares about you [97:59] is something that was never made clear [98:01] to me. And I mean that in the most [98:02] positive, optimistic, inspiring, [98:05] motivating way. [98:06] Like I think that especially if you see [98:08] yourself as a creative or you want to [98:09] exist on YouTube or as a filmmaker or as [98:11] a musician or as an artist or a painter [98:13] any of those things like [98:15] you think that everybody's paying [98:16] attention. And because of that, it kind [98:18] of controls how you think. And even when [98:20] I was young and fearless and nothing to [98:22] lose, I was still so cognizant of like [98:24] how are people going to react to this [98:25] and what's the best way to do like [98:28] I was so aware. And the reality is [98:30] nobody gives a [ __ ] Everybody is so [98:33] focused on themselves in this world. [98:35] Nobody has time for you. [98:37] And the sooner you accept that as a [98:39] creative person, the sooner you're free. [98:42] Like you're totally free. Like do [98:44] exactly what feels right to you. [98:46] And if you can get yourself on that [98:48] trajectory, then it goes back to what we [98:50] were talking about before about being [98:51] novel, about being an original, about [98:53] not being a photocopy of somebody who [98:55] did something. If you're that photocopy, [98:57] you will never be the original. But the [98:59] moment you accept the fact that [99:01] you know, nobody cares. Do your thing. [99:03] Nobody cares. [99:04] And then you start to go down that path, [99:06] you will just get better and better and [99:07] better. Then you sprinkle on that [99:09] patience I I talking about, you just [99:10] keep going. You keep going. And [99:13] eventually, like that persistence will [99:16] just smash into like opportunity with [99:19] the [99:20] preparation will smash into opportunity, [99:22] persistence will smash into opportunity, [99:24] and like your moment of explosion [99:27] your your detonation will happen. [99:31] I was verbose, [99:32] but you asked a big question. Thank you [99:34] so much, Casey. We have [99:37] We have a closing tradition on this [99:38] podcast, where the last guest leaves a [99:39] question for the next guest, not knowing [99:40] who they're going to be leaving it for. [99:43] But I I did have a question, because you [99:44] are I mean, many people consider you to [99:46] be the very king of vlogging. [99:49] And we've started a a weekly vlog, where [99:51] which is going really well. We've [99:53] uploaded I don't know eight eight or so [99:54] videos, and we've got got a engaged [99:57] audience. I Cuz you are the king of [99:59] vlogging in my eyes, [100:01] I The question I want to ask you [100:03] selfishly is [100:05] what do you make of that whole medium? [100:08] It It's got It's been on a journey. [100:10] There was a lot of daily vloggers back [100:11] in the day. I used to watch the [100:13] Shaytards, and I used to watch you, and [100:15] and then, you know, doing these daily [100:16] vlogs. And as you said, I felt like I [100:18] was your friend, living your life with [100:19] you. [100:20] The algorithms changed, things changed. [100:22] It doesn't seem to be the case that [100:23] there's daily vloggers anymore. Even [100:24] like vlogging on the platform seems to [100:25] have kind of fallen down a little bit. [100:28] What do you think of [100:30] I mean, I Well, at the time, like when I [100:31] was doing my daily vlog, I really [100:33] thought that it was like the ultimate [100:37] like um [100:38] maturation, if that's a word, like [100:41] of reality television. Because you've [100:43] got Kim Kardashian, and then you have [100:46] her TV show, [100:47] and in between those two things are all [100:49] these producers and directors and [100:51] writers and all of this fabrication. So, [100:54] what happens if you remove the middle [100:55] part, [100:56] and it's just the sharing your world? [100:58] Like that was the That was the most sort [101:01] of optimistic, [101:03] whimsical trajectory that I saw the [101:06] genre taking. [101:08] And I think it just never happened. It [101:09] never manifested Instead, it was a [101:11] pursuit of sensationalism and views. I [101:14] think it was corrupted by the view [101:15] count. I don't fault anyone. I was [101:18] susceptible to that, too. It was [101:19] corrupted by the view count. So, what [101:21] could have been something virtuous [101:22] turned into something [101:24] I think much less interesting. [101:28] And that crashed and burned. And now, in [101:30] the ashes of that, I think we're seeing [101:31] really, really interesting things. I [101:33] think we're seeing niche succeed, which [101:36] is so [ __ ] wonderful to see. You had [101:39] to be a YouTuber to succeed back in the [101:41] day. Like one of those. [101:43] You had to fit in. So, you had to be one [101:44] of those. And now, it's like, we have [101:46] these micro creators that are finding [101:49] their audiences. Like friend of mine, [101:51] all he's into is like fish tanks. It's [101:55] all he does [101:57] is fish tanks. His channel's huge. He's [102:00] so good. [102:01] Like [102:02] these guys, Retro Dodo, they're friends [102:04] of mine. Like I was on They came to New [102:06] York to film with me. Their whole [102:07] channel is just retro video gaming [102:11] devices. They're so wildly successful. [102:13] They've released books. [102:15] And that is so amazing. Like you have [102:17] eight episodes of your vlog out now. [102:20] I haven't seen any, but like I'm sure [102:23] they're much more about this than they [102:24] are the intimacies of your life and how [102:26] you got You know, like you're able to [102:28] lean into that niche. So, I think like [102:30] this thing had all this potential, and [102:32] it crashed and burned. And now, out of [102:33] those ashes, we're seeing these sort of [102:35] beautiful little things sprout up. And I [102:38] I hope that that's the trajectory it [102:39] continues. And you're not tempted to [102:41] vlog again [102:43] on a daily basis? [102:44] If I could do it without having any [102:46] notoriety or attention from it, I would [102:48] do it. That's the only reason you don't [102:49] do it? Um it's a big part of the reason. [102:52] So interesting. [102:54] But like the thing that I fantasize is [102:56] about is like [102:58] um [102:59] Quentin Tarantino just disappears off [103:01] the face of the earth for like six [103:03] years. [103:04] And then it's like, "Hey guys, I have a [103:06] new movie coming out in six months." And [103:07] he is the only thing [103:10] anyone talks about is that movie. [103:12] And then he goes and disappears, crawls [103:13] back into his cave. [103:15] And it's like, that is the ultimate. I [103:17] don't [ __ ] know anything about that [103:18] guy. Is he married? I don't know. Does [103:19] he have kids? [103:20] Like where does he live? I don't know. [103:22] What is he doing right now? I have no [103:23] idea. Kind of car does he drive? Don't [103:24] know. What are his hobbies? No idea. I [103:26] know nothing about him. [103:28] But his work, I know every word to every [103:31] movie he has ever made. I appreciate [103:34] that man for one reason, and that is his [103:36] artistic contribution to the world. Like [103:39] that is the ultimate. So, for me, with [103:41] like daily vlogging, it's like [103:43] I don't know how to separate the like [103:45] selling of me and my personality with [103:47] the art, and that [103:50] uh conflation starts to [ __ ] with my [103:52] head. And then, when people in the [103:53] street come up to me and [103:56] engage me, yeah, it it's it's that [103:58] turning into something in the real world [103:59] that just freaks me out. [104:03] How long have we been talking? We're [104:05] we're done. [104:07] A while. [104:09] The question that he asked is, "What is [104:10] one piece of feedback you want to give [104:13] to me?" Oh gosh, [ __ ] [104:15] "What is one piece of feedback you want [104:16] to give to me? Yes, me, Steven, [104:20] but might be nervous to tell me." [104:23] When you set up a studio in New York [104:26] City, [104:27] don't do it 40 minutes out into [ __ ] [104:30] Brooklyn. [104:32] You figure out how to build this studio [104:34] in downtown Manhattan, so all of your [104:36] guests are 5 minutes away, instead of 40 [104:39] minutes away. [104:40] You were really busy today? [104:42] No, putting up shelves and watching TV. [104:44] Doing nothing. Our Our studio was in low [104:47] low Manhattan until [104:49] This is the first time we've ever done [104:50] it here, but that is great feedback. [104:51] Don't do it again. [104:53] Did you get come here on your [104:53] skateboard? I thought about it, but it [104:55] doesn't have the range. Oh, [ __ ] I [104:57] appreciate that. Casey, thank you so [104:58] much for the inspiration. [104:59] is fantastic. I've talked about you for [105:01] many, many years, and it's really about [105:02] the principles of towards life, but also [105:04] creation and the artistic side of your [105:07] work that have inspired me so [105:09] profoundly. And even hearing the import [105:11] You speak so [105:12] clearly on the importance of truth and [105:13] authenticity in what you produce [105:16] has [105:17] has made me rethink a lot of things that [105:18] I do, and I think in a really important [105:20] way. And you're someone that is further [105:23] further up the ladder that I think [105:25] creators like myself are climbing. So, [105:27] if you to shout down these messages [105:29] mean that I don't have to go through the [105:32] darkness or the confusion or all of [105:34] those things that you've been through. [105:35] So, I thank you for that. [105:37] And I'm very excited to see what you do, [105:38] because you're a pioneer. And people [105:40] that are creating for their own [105:41] authentic reasons always make the most [105:43] interesting [ __ ] And so, that's going [105:46] to be a source of inspiration for me, if [105:48] you do make those 25 videos in your in [105:49] the notes of your phone. So, please do. [105:51] I appreciate that. I will. [105:54] I'll do it for you. [105:56] Thank you, Casey. Yeah, thanks for [105:57] having me. [105:59] Do you need a podcast to listen to next? [106:01] We've discovered that people who liked [106:03] this episode also tend absolutely love [106:06] another recent episode we've done. So, [106:08] I've linked that episode in the [106:09] description below. I know you'll enjoy [106:11] it.