Whoop's Kristen Holmes Links Sleep Debt to Executive Failure, Injury Risks

Whoop的Kristen Holmes：睡眠负债关乎高管失误与受伤风险 固定的起床时间、日光照射和提早吃晚餐可最大程度提高心率变异性，从而预防认知衰退与身体损伤。 Kristen Holmes阐释了基本生物学机制——特别是昼夜节律光照同步、睡眠一致性以及通过HRV实现的自主神经恢复——如何直接决定认知功能、领导能力和长期健康。她详细说明了饮酒、不良睡眠时机和久坐习惯对肌肉恢复与受伤风险造成的严重生理代价，同时提出了优化人体机能的实用方案。在生理指标之外，Holmes还强调，保持高水平恢复和成长型思维需要将日常习惯与明确的核心价值观及心理安全感紧密相连。 早晨接触高达100,000勒克斯（lux）的自然阳光，在通过大脑视交叉上核（SCN）激活日间清醒通路方面，效果显著优于室内人造光。 (34:09) 日落后限制光源暴露并维持黑暗的就寝环境，能有效保护褪黑素的分泌，避免深度恢复性睡眠受到微弱人造光的破坏。 (34:50) 成长于饱受成瘾与心理疾病困扰的家庭促使个体建立高度的独立性，这也直接启发了对人体机能调控及昼夜节律健康的科学探索。 (43:03) 根据“非中性原则”（Principle of Non-Neutrality），任何生活习惯或物质摄入都不存在真正的中立状态，每项选择都在将机体推向或拉离预期的健康目标。 (51:54)

Kristen Holmes, Vice President of Performance Science at Whoop, argues that biological resilience, mental health, and longevity are fundamentally anchored by circadian alignment rather than total sleep duration alone. She contends that strict sleep-wake consistency, morning daylight exposure, and the elimination of circadian disruptors like late eating and alcohol form the essential foundation for physiological performance. The Primacy of Sleep-Wake Consistency (5:03) Holmes identifies sleep-wake timing consistency as the single most critical behavioral predictor of physiological and psychological health across Whoop datasets, military cohorts, and athletic teams. In a study of 1,000 paratroopers in Army Alaska, regular sleep timing proved to be the strongest predictor of workplace resilience, homesickness reduction, and personal control. This mirrors a 2017 four-year Harvard study led by Dr. Andrew Phillips, which demonstrated that sleep-wake regularity predicted student GPA more effectively than total sleep duration. Additionally, an analysis of 60,000 UK Biobank participants showed that sleep regularity predicts all-cause mortality independently of total hours slept. Preliminary Whoop data reveals that exceeding 70 minutes of sleep onset and offset variability triggers measurable declines in resting heart rate and Heart Rate Variability (HRV) among elite young athletes. Holmes stresses that circadian disruption carries severe clinical risks: being awake for two hours between 10:00 p.m. and 4:00 a.m. just twice weekly for 25 days a year matches shift-worker risk thresholds, an occupational status associated with a 15-year reduction in average life expectancy. Environmental Light and Melatonin Regulation (10:16) The body's central pacemaker, the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) in the hypothalamus, coordinates millions of cellular peripheral clocks through natural light and darkness cues. Holmes notes an evolutionary mismatch: human physiology has not adapted to post-sunset artificial light. Exposure to artificial illumination between 10:00 p.m. and 4:00 a.m. actively disrupts dopamine pathways, induces pro-depressive neurological states, and suppresses melatonin release—a biochemical cascade critical for suppressing systemic inflammation. To synchronize the master clock, Holmes recommends exposing the eyes to high-intensity outdoor sunlight (up to 100,000 lux) within 5 to 20 minutes of waking. This stimulus anchors cortisol rhythms and starts a biological countdown for nighttime melatonin production roughly 14 to 16 hours later. In the evening, dimming domestic light and eliminating bedroom light pollution, including small LED displays, protects deep sleep stages and restorative cellular repair. The Physiological Costs of Alcohol and Digestion (25:23) Applying what she terms the "principle of non-neutrality"—the concept that every habit either advances or degrades physiological function—Holmes refutes claims that moderate alcohol intake supports health. She references a 2007 study showing moderate alcohol consumed an hour before bed slashes melatonin by nearly 20%, alongside a 2018 Finnish study of 4,908 participants where sleep quality fell by 9.3% after one drink, 24% after two, and 39.2% after three or more. Whoop platform analytics reflect a linear 6% average drop in physiological recovery per consumed drink. Nutritional timing operates as another potent circadian signal. Consolidating caloric intake into an 8- to 10-hour daytime window delivers an estimated 60% of possible metabolic health benefits, even without changing food quality. Consuming meals within three hours of sleep creates an autonomic conflict: digestion forces the body to allocate parasympathetic resources away from cellular restoration toward gastrointestinal processing, keeping resting heart rates elevated by up to 20 beats per minute during early sleep cycles. Autonomic Recovery, Sleep Debt, and Leadership (71:24) Heart Rate Variability (HRV) serves as a primary marker of the dynamic balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. A varied, responsive interval between heartbeats signals physiological adaptability, whereas a rigid, metronomic rhythm indicates systemic stress. To elevate HRV, Holmes advocates for consistent wake anchors, avoiding prolonged sedentary periods over four hours, and adopting polarized cardiovascular training—specifically 200 to 300 minutes of weekly Zone 2 endurance alongside two to three Zone 5 high-intensity sessions. Failing to meet biological sleep requirements accumulates sleep debt, which rapidly erodes cognitive and social capacities. Whoop data indicates that every 45 minutes of accumulated sleep debt reduces next-day executive mental control by 5% to 10%. In a study evaluating roughly 70 business executives, a leader's sleep debt showed a direct linear correlation with reduced psychological safety among their direct reports, demonstrating that sleep deficits impair emotional tolerance, facial cues, and workplace trust. While Holmes demonstrates that circadian timing, light, and meal boundaries substantially influence recovery and performance data, practical challenges remain for parents, caregivers, and mandatory shift workers who cannot maintain standard hours. Further research is necessary to quantify the degree to which secondary circadian zeitgebers—such as daytime-restricted eating and strategic breathwork—can offset the established long-term mortality and cardiometabolic risks associated with chronic nocturnal wakefulness.

Whoop表现科学副总裁Kristen Holmes指出，人类的生理机能与心理韧性高度依赖昼夜节律的同步性，其中就寝与起床时间的规律性对全因死亡率和健康恢复的预测力甚至超过睡眠时长。研究与大数据同时证实，即便少量饮酒、深夜进食或打破作息也会严重抑制褪黑素释放、拉低心率变异性（HRV），唯有围绕生物钟进行行为校准才能维持长期的身心适应力。 睡眠规律性对生理韧性的决定性作用 (5:03) Holmes强调，人体受下丘脑视交叉上核（SCN）主生物钟与全身外周钟的共同调控。在针对阿拉斯加陆军空降兵的1,000人研究中，“入睡与醒来时间的一致性”被证实是心理韧性、工作掌控感与社交网络健康的最强预测指标，Holmes称其为“所有表现优化行为之母”。类似地，哈佛大学2017年由Andrew Phillips主导的一项历时四年的研究表明，预测学生平均绩点（GPA）的最强变量同样是作息规律性，而非睡眠总时长。 英国生物样本库（UK Biobank）对6万名个体及1000万个睡眠夜晚的数据分析显示，睡眠规律性对全因死亡率的预测独立于总睡眠时间。Whoop针对18至23岁精英运动员的未发表数据显示，入睡与醒来时间的波动一旦超过70分钟，便会引发心率变异性（HRV）与静息心率的显著恶化。此外，深度睡眠期是生长激素（HGH）释放与肌肉修复的关键窗口，舍弃睡眠去健身反而会抵消运动收益；而年轻群体在工作日与周末之间的“社交时差”每增加1小时，非自杀性自残意念风险便增加17%。 光照信号与限时进食的节律调控 (10:16) 光照是校准中央生物钟的首要授时信号（Zeitgeber）。人类大脑演化并未适应日落后的人工蓝光，在夜间10:00至凌晨4:00之间暴露于蓝光会直接抑制多巴胺奖赏回路，产生促抑郁效应。Holmes指出，所谓的“天生夜猫子”多数是行为选择与光照暴露的结果，遗传差异在时型上仅造成约60至90分钟的偏移。为锚定节律，晨起后5至20分钟内应接受自然光（户外可达100,000勒克斯）照射，为14至16小时后的褪黑素释放开启倒计时；日落后则应彻底调暗室内环境以保护褪黑素产生。 进食时机是另一个关键的节律调节杠杆。Holmes提倡将营养摄入限制在8至10小时的白昼窗口内（限时进食TRE）。根据研究，仅调整进食窗口而无需改变食物成分或总热量，即可获取约60%的代谢健康收益。睡前至少3小时应彻底停止进食，否则进食引发的胃肠消化会强行分流副交感神经资源，导致睡眠前半程静息心率升高20次/分以上，破坏深睡眠恢复。深夜剧烈运动同样会诱发皮质醇与肾上腺素飙升，延缓神经系统回归稳态。 行为非中立原则与酒精咖啡因的损害 (51:54) Holmes提出“非中立原则”（Principle of Non-Neutrality），即没有任何生活习惯或摄入物在生理上是真正中立的，它们要么增进健康表现，要么造成损害。针对“适度饮酒有益”的传统观点，Holmes明确反驳称，红酒中白藜芦醇等有益物质需要喝下数瓶才能产生临床效果，而多项文献表明每周仅饮用1至2杯酒也会对身体造成明确伤害。 酒精会严重破坏睡眠结构和夜间恢复。Sleep Foundation引用的2007年研究表明，睡前1小时中度饮酒会导致褪黑素生成量减少近20%；2018年芬兰一项涉及4,908名受试者的研究证实，睡前饮用1杯葡萄酒会使睡眠质量下降9.3%，2杯下降24%，3杯或以上则暴跌39.2%。Whoop平台的大数据进一步表明，每摄入一杯酒就会导致次日生理恢复评分平均下降6%，酗酒更会导致评分暴跌30%至40%。此外，在就寝前8至12小时内摄入咖啡因也会严重撕裂睡眠结构，阻止深度恢复阶段的正常展开。 睡眠债与心率变异性的生理及组织代价 (73:10) 睡眠债务的积累具有高度隐蔽性，个体会适应机能低下的基线而误以为自身运转正常。针对企业高管的研究显示，每累积45分钟睡眠债，次日的执行功能和抑制控制力（如Stroop测试）就会下降5%至10%，且直接下属在会议中的心理安全感亦呈线性下降，而谷歌“亚里士多德计划”早已证实心理安全感是团队业绩最核心的驱动力。在安全领域，AAA交通安全基金会2016年数据显示，每晚睡眠4至5小时的司机遭遇车祸的风险是睡满7小时者的5.4倍；连续14天睡眠不足7小时，肌肉和骨骼损伤风险增加1.7倍。 作为评估自主神经平衡（交感神经与副交感神经张力）的关键指标，心率变异性（HRV）随年龄每年自然衰减约3%至4%。Holmes指出，固定早起时间、晨间光照、每周累计200至300分钟的2区低强度有氧及2至3次5区高强度间歇、睡前3小时禁食与戒酒是提升HRV的生理基石。此外，避免连续久坐超4小时、伴侣间的性亲密行为（Whoop数据显示伴侣性行为可促进恢复，而单独手淫无显著益处），以及“接收他人感谢”等积极心理反馈，均能直接改善心率变异性与抗压表现。 Holmes的研究确立了以生物钟同步为核心的高效恢复框架，强调睡眠一致性与日间光照是所有心理韧性与生理机能的前提。然而，部分关键结论（如70分钟作息波动阈值、伴侣性行为对恢复指标的具体改善）仍依赖于Whoop平台的内部观测数据，尚待同行评审与进一步验证；且对于频繁轮班的医护、急救人员或新生儿看护者而言，严格维持作息规律仍存在现实阻碍，需结合限时进食与分段光照等替代手段进行风险缓冲。

## Background 该视频由知名播客频道《The Diary Of A CEO》（主持人 Steven Bartlett）于 2024 年 1 月 4 日发布在 YouTube 平台上。视频简介指出，本期节目邀请了 WHOOP 表现科学副总裁兼首席科学家克里斯汀·霍姆斯（Kristen Holmes），聚焦睡眠生理学、昼夜节律及生活习惯调控，并揭示了哪怕微量饮酒也会对人体机能与睡眠恢复造成严重隐性伤害的科学机理。 ## TL;DR WHOOP 表现科学首席科学家克里斯汀·霍姆斯在访谈中指出，入睡与起床时间的昼夜节律规律性，比单纯追求睡眠时长更能决定人的健康寿命与认知表现。她基于海量生理监测数据，深入阐释了夜间人造蓝光、睡前进食及哪怕单次微量饮酒如何严重抑制褪黑素释放、摧毁自主神经平衡（导致 HRV 暴跌）并削弱白天的执行决策能力。霍姆斯结合自身研究与成长背景，提出了通过晨起自然强光照射、限时进食（TRE）与情绪呼吸法调控身心的实操路径，并强调唯有将微观行为与内在核心价值观深度锚定，才能建立起真正可持续的自律与卓越表现。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话在严谨硬核的生理大数据拆解与极具穿透力的人性底色之间自如流转。史蒂文·巴特利特的提问直击现代人的自律痛点与认知盲区，而克里斯汀在展现顶尖科学家专业锐度的同时，首次在镜头前坦承母亲酗酒早逝带来的童年创伤并动情哽咽，形成了极具冲击力的情绪弧线。倾听过程既充满被颠覆性科学真相震撼的顿悟感，又流淌着一种将痛苦转化为救赎公众健康使命的深沉与温暖。 ## Bulletin - [15:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=907s) 基于英国生物样本库（UK Biobank）6万人的大规模研究证实，睡眠规律性独立于睡眠时长显著预测全因死亡率；即使顶尖运动员对就寝与起床时间的波动耐受上限也仅有70分钟，超出后身体恢复指标将急剧恶化。 - [08:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=498s) 医学上只要一年中有25天、每周有2天在晚上10点至凌晨4点之间清醒达2小时，即达到“轮班工作者”的生理危害判定标准；该人群的平均预期寿命相比正常作息人群缩短整整15年。 - [56:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3390s) “适量饮酒有益健康”属于误导：睡前饮用1杯红酒会使睡眠质量下降9.3%，2杯下降24%，3杯或以上断崖式下跌近40%，WHOOP大数据显示身体恢复指标与饮酒量呈极其显著的线性负相关。 - [28:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1714s) 在入睡前至少3小时停止进食可避免副交感神经系统在“胃肠消化”与“细胞睡眠修复”之间竞争资源，从而防止前半夜静息心率异常飙升并显著增加深度慢波睡眠时长。 - [01:10:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4219s) 领导者每累积45分钟的睡眠负债，其自身的认知决策与执行功能不仅下滑5%至10%，团队下属在会议中所感受到的“心理安全感”也会出现显著线性暴跌。 ## Key takeaways - [04:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=240s) 针对阿拉斯加驻军的实战科研表明，入睡与醒来时间的稳定性（Sleep-Wake Timing）是预测心理韧性、情绪掌控与避免心理崩溃的最底层决定性行为基石。 - [10:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=655s) 夜间22点至凌晨4点暴露于手机及屏幕的人造蓝光具有直接的神经致抑郁效应（Pro-depressive effect），会严重干扰多巴胺奖赏回路与褪黑素分泌。 - [11:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=719s) 所谓“夜猫子基因”在很大程度上是生活恶习的借口；在无人工光源的原始自然实验中，所有受试者的入睡与醒来时间差在48小时内均被同步锁定在30分钟之内。 - [17:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1066s) 睡眠质量直接决定体能修复与组织再生；作息不规律会阻碍深睡眠中人类生长激素（HGH）的脉冲式释放，连续14天睡眠不足7小时将使运动受伤风险激增1.7倍。 - [34:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=2049s) 清晨醒后5至20分钟内到户外接受约10万勒克斯的自然强光是校准体内主时钟视交叉上核（SCN）的关键杠杆，能确保当晚按时分泌褪黑素产生自然困意。 - [31:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1894s) 热量摄入的时钟效应至关重要：在相同热量和宏量营养素摄入前提下，将进食重心放在下午3点前的人群，其代谢指标和减重成效显著优于下午3点后进食的人群。 - [32:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1946s) 深夜进行剧烈运动会刺激肾上腺素和皮质醇大量充斥血液，加上公共健身房的高照度强光刺激，身体需要极长时间才能代谢应激激素，严重破坏入睡节律。 - [51:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3114s) 任何生理与生活行为均遵循“非中性原则”：世上不存在零代价的行为，微量饮酒或不良习惯要么在支持人生的核心价值观，要么就是在对其进行持续损耗。 - [01:06:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3986s) 应对突发急性压力的最快生理开关是“生理学叹息”（两次快速吸气伴随一次深长呼气），仅需重复30秒即可强力唤醒副交感神经系统并拉低心率。 - [01:15:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4543s) 睡前数小时内与固定伴侣发生性行为可促使催产素（Oxytocin）释放并建立深度心理安全感，显著提升后续的深睡与恢复指标，但自慰无法带来同等的恢复红利。 - [01:24:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5066s) 心率变异性（HRV）是评估自主神经弹性的黄金标尺，成年后平均每年下降3%-4%；因受到先天气质与心脏解剖结构影响，管理HRV应追踪自身基线的动态波动而非与他人攀比绝对数值。 - [01:25:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5126s) 单次连续静坐超4小时会推高全因死亡率且无法被单次剧烈健身抵消；提升长期HRV需要结合每周200-300分钟的Zone 2低强度耐力训练与2-3次Zone 5极限间歇冲刺。 - [01:34:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5651s) 动机的底层本质是“生理能量生成”；如果缺乏稳定的昼夜节律、充足睡眠与营养底座，单纯依靠意志力进行心理喊话或追求成长型思维无异于空中楼阁。 - [01:43:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=6225s) 追求孤立的外部目标容易引发心理倦怠或表现失常；唯有将每日微观行为与个人的核心价值观对齐，以“今天是否极致践行价值观”作为唯一计分板，才能维持可持续的卓越水准。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=0s) 序言与关键洞察 本期节目开篇抛出了一项极具震撼力的科学研究：在睡前数小时内进行性生活的人群，其后续的睡眠质量与身体恢复指标表现得更为优异。这一引人入胜的切入点引出了本期嘉宾——Whoop 表现科学副总裁兼首席科学家克里斯汀·霍姆斯（Kristen Holmes）。她依托能够调取数十万人健康生理大数据的科研平台，揭示了关于健康与终极表现的深层规律。 霍姆斯指出，决定人体健康最根本的支柱正是**昼夜节律（Circadian Rhythm）**——即在24小时周期内发生的生理、心理和行为变化。其中最为人所熟知的节律就是在夜间入睡。如果这一节律被打乱，后果将是毁灭性的。例如，轮班工作者的平均预期寿命要缩短整整15年；更令人警惕的是，现代人往往在不知不觉中就达到了医学上认定的“轮班工作者”标准：只要一年中有25天、每周有2天在晚上10点至凌晨4点之间清醒达2小时，就会使自己面临癌症、心血管疾病、代谢功能障碍及心理健康问题的剧增风险。此外，人类生理机制根本没有适应屏幕散发的蓝光，深夜暴露在光线下具有直接诱发抑郁的生物效应。许多人标榜自己是“夜猫子”所以必须凌晨1点入睡，这在科学上纯属自欺欺人的“彻头彻尾的谬论（total BS）”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 昼夜节律紊乱的传导路径 accDescr: 展示环境光信号如何通过下丘脑视交叉上核干扰外周组织，从而导致慢性健康风险。 subgraph S1["节律驱动与信号接收"] A["视交叉上核 (SCN)<br/>下丘脑主生物钟"] -->|光照与黑暗信号| B["释放神经递质与激素"] end subgraph S2["外周器官响应"] B --> C["外周时钟同步<br/>细胞/组织/器官"] D["深夜异常光照暴露<br/>(22:00 - 04:00)"] -.->|节律打乱| A end subgraph S3["长期健康危害"] C -.->|失步与功能受损| E["系统性压力累积"] E --> F["心血管疾病 / 癌症"] E --> G["抑郁与心理障碍"] E --> H["代谢与生育问题"] end ``` --- ### [02:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=134s) 投身人类繁荣科学与 Whoop 的核心使命 当主持人史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）问及为何选择这一领域时，霍姆斯表示自己对“人类繁荣（Human Flourishing）”及其背后的决定机制抱有近乎痴迷的热情。她将毕生精力投入到研究身心生理机制如何协同运作，帮助人们重新掌控自己的身心健康，进而把有限的体能与注意力投入到真正有回报的事情上。 作为 Whoop 的表现科学副总裁兼首席科学家，她的核心工作是让公司始终处于人类体能表现研究的最前沿。她不仅要带领团队追踪关键生理指标、明确促进健康的行为模式，还深入极限高压环境展开实地研究——包括职业运动员、抗疫一线医疗医护人员以及特种部队作战人员。通过解码这些极端专业人群在高负荷环境下的心理与生理反应，研究团队能够提炼出普遍适用的健康法则，进而下沉并赋能给日常生活压力相对较小、但同样面临时间与认知带宽挑战的普通大众。 --- ### [04:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=240s) 阿拉斯加伞兵研究与“表现终极基石”的发现 霍姆斯不仅负责前瞻性战略，还作为首席研究员（PI）亲自操盘各类前沿科研课题。2023年5月，她的团队发表了一项极具代表性的重大研究，对象是驻扎在极端严寒气候下的阿拉斯加陆军基地的1000名空降伞兵。阿拉斯加由于特殊的地理与极昼极夜环境，自杀率居高不下；而位于埃尔森（Eielson）周边的军事基地更是被严重的心理障碍与自杀问题困扰，军方为此专门求助于 Whoop 寻找生理与行为层面的根源。 经过周密的数据分析，霍姆斯的团队从纷繁复杂的变量中筛查出了一项对士兵心理积极机能（如职场韧性、克服思乡之情、掌握掌控感及建立健康的社交网络）最具决定性预测力的关键行为——**睡眠-觉醒时间规律性（Sleep-Wake Timing）**。士兵入睡（Sleep onset）与醒来（Sleep offset）的时间越固定、越稳定，其各项积极心理指标就越高。霍姆斯据此将这一行为提炼为 Whoop 所有研究中最核心的发现：睡眠-觉醒时间规律性正是“所有优化人类表现行为中的终极基石（the mother of all performance optimization behaviors）”。 - **极端试验样本**：1000 名驻阿拉斯加美军空降伞兵。 - **环境背景**：长夜极寒、高自杀率与高发心理创伤。 - **核心结论**：入睡与起床时刻的稳定性是预测积极心理韧性与情绪控制的最关键指标。 --- ### [05:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=334s) 猴子水平的科普：视交叉上核如何主导身体百万时钟 为了让大众以通俗的方式理解深奥的生物钟机理，史蒂文要求霍姆斯用“给10岁孩子或猴子讲课”的浅显语言来拆解。昼夜节律本质上是指生命体在24小时周期内呈现的生理、心理和行为变化，而其主指挥中心正是位于下丘脑的**视交叉上核（Suprachiasmatic Nucleus，简称 SCN）**。 视交叉上核相当于身体内部的“主时钟（Master Clock）”，它通过神经与体液信号调控全身数以百万计的细胞、组织与外周器官时钟。主时钟最主要、最敏感的校准信号就是光照与黑暗（Light and Darkness）。当光线进入眼部，主时钟便向全身组织发布指令，告知各个器官在有光或无光环境下应执行何种代谢任务。如果我们在生理预期应当休眠的阶段强行保持清醒、接受光照，全身系统便会承受巨大的生物应激压力。偶然发生一两次身体尚可耐受，但一旦形成常态，节律彻底失调，就会诱发癌症、代谢综合征、心血管病变等各种器质性疾病，霍姆斯强调：“在临床上，几乎没有任何心理健康障碍不存在某种程度的昼夜节律失调。” - **主生物钟位置**：脑内下丘脑的视交叉上核（SCN）。 - **最强授时因子（Zeitgeber）**：自然光照与黑暗交替。 - **生理后果**：非规律的光照输入会引发外周时钟与主时钟脱节，导致激素紊乱与慢性细胞炎症。 --- ### [08:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=498s) 隐形“轮班工”危机与人造光的生理陷阱 霍姆斯在对谈中抛出了一组令人震惊的判定数据，说明现代社会的照明习惯正在无形中摧毁大众的生理健康： | 评判维度 | 隐形“轮班工作者”认定门槛 | 长期生理危害与影响 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **清醒时间段** | 夜间 22:00 至次日凌晨 04:00 | 神经内分泌系统紊乱、褪黑素分泌被抑制 | | **夜间清醒时长** | 单次清醒达 2 小时以上 | 全身多器官“外周时钟”产生严重信号脱节 | | **发生频率** | 每周发生 2 天，且全年累计满 25 天 | 患心血管疾病、癌症、不孕不育及抑郁的风险呈几何级数激增 | 现代人普遍误以为只要睡眠总时长足够，无论何时入睡都无关紧要。霍姆斯对此驳斥道，人体系统对“节律的一致性”有着极度苛刻的需求。然而，人类社会关于昼夜节律的绝大多数现代医学研究，几乎都是在电灯发明、人造光普及之后才展开的。我们现在的生物进化机制根本没有准备好应对日落后的持续强光，特别是手机、电脑和电视屏幕产生的蓝光。在夜间10点到凌晨4点之间暴露于人造光源，会直接在大脑通路中引发致抑郁效应（pro-depressive effect），从而在不知不觉中彻底侵蚀人体的心理与生理底线。 ### [10:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=655s) 夜间人造光与心理健康危机 克里斯汀·霍姆斯（Kristen Holmes）指出，人类的生理机制根本没有进化出适应蓝光（特别是手机、电脑等电子屏幕发出的蓝光）的能力。研究表明，在特定的“魔幻窗口期”——即晚上 10 点至凌晨 4 点之间接触人造光线，会对大脑回路产生直接的“致抑郁效应”（pro-depressive effect），扰乱多巴胺系统、奖赏回路与行为动机机制。 当现代社会困惑于当下严峻的“心理健康危机”从何而来时，霍姆斯强调必须首先审视人们对光线的接触习惯。虽然睡前放下手机非常困难，因为手机使用本身就带有成瘾机制，但个体与光线的交互方式，正从根本上左右着健康的发展轨迹。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 夜间光线暴露对身心机制的影响 accDescr: 展示从夜间接触蓝光到破坏多巴胺及加剧心理健康危机的生理过程 subgraph NightLight["夜间光线暴露 (22:00 - 04:00)"] A["电子屏幕与蓝光刺激"] end subgraph NeuralDisruption["神经与内分泌干扰"] B["抑制褪黑素释放"] C["干扰多巴胺与奖赏系统"] end subgraph Consequences["健康后果"] D["致抑郁效应 (Pro-depressive Effect)"] E["动机下降与心理健康恶化"] end A --> B A --> C C --> D D --> E ``` ### [11:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=719s) 进化失调与“夜猫子”睡眠类型的真相 史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）从远古祖先的生存环境切入探讨：数万年前，祖先们遵循严格的自然日照进食与作息，完全没有人工光源；而在高度发达的现代社会，人们在凌晨 3 点不仅能随手下单外卖饼干，还能通宵观看 YouTube 视频。霍姆斯证实，人类的身体结构从未进化出在半夜消化食物、接收强光或进行剧烈活动的功能，现代生活方式与远古基因之间产生了严重的生理失调（circadian misalignment）。 为了打破关于“睡眠时型（chronotypes）”的常见认知偏差，霍姆斯列举了多项对照研究： - **无电原始部落观察**：在没有电力供应的狩猎采集社会中，所有人入睡和醒来的时间相差不超过 15 至 30 分钟。 - **野外断电实验**：研究人员将现代受试者带到科罗拉多州的山区露营，完全剥夺人工光源与电力。仅仅 48 小时后，所有人的入睡时间差就被重置并同步到 30 分钟之内。 霍姆斯直言，很多人声称“我必须凌晨 1 点睡，因为我是夜猫子”，这在很大程度上只是给不良生活习惯找借口，而非不可抗拒的基因决定。在健康人群中，真实的遗传睡眠时型差异最多只有 1 到 1.5 小时（且受年龄影响），绝不可能出现一个人基因上必须凌晨 1 点入睡、另一个人必须晚上 9 点入睡的极端鸿沟。 ### [15:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=907s) 睡眠规律性比睡眠时长更能预测寿命 传统观念往往只关注每晚睡足了多少小时，但最新科学数据表明，单纯追求“睡眠时长”是不全面的建议。近期基于英国生物样本库（UK Biobank）的一项大规模研究（追踪了 60,000 名参与者、记录了超过 1,000 万次客观睡眠数据）显示：**睡眠规律性（Sleep Regularity）独立于睡眠时长，能够显著预测全因死亡率**。决定人寿命长度的关键，不是你在床上躺了多久，而是就寝与起床时间的稳定程度。 霍姆斯的科研团队正在对不同年龄群体展开更精密的临界值研究，其初步未发表数据显示： - 即使是世界上体魄最强健、适应力最强的前 0.001% 顶尖精英运动员（18–23 岁），其就寝与起床时间的容忍波动上限也仅为 **70 分钟**。 - 一旦作息波动超过 70 分钟，受试者次日的生理恢复指标（心率变异性 HRV 和静息心率）就会发生急剧恶化，直接削弱身体承受训练负荷与日常压力的适应能力。 - 对于普通人或身心状态较为脆弱的群体，身体能够承受的作息波动时间窗口甚至远比 70 分钟更窄。 ### [17:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1066s) 作息不规律如何破坏褪黑素与生长激素 作息不稳定会在生化层面对人体造成破坏性打击： 1. **褪黑素（Melatonin）严重受抑**：睡眠节律紊乱会导致体内循环的褪黑素骤减。褪黑素是控制体内炎症反应的核心要素，循环褪黑素的匮乏已被医学界证实与人体的各类系统性疾病和功能障碍直接相关。 2. **人类生长激素（HGH）释放受阻**：生长激素通常在深睡眠阶段呈脉冲式释放（bolus release），负责组织修复与机能再生。若入睡过晚或节律紊乱，生长激素的分泌量会大幅减少。 史蒂文提到，自己在忙碌时曾面临“去健身房锻炼还是保证优质睡眠”的取舍，最终他选择优先保证睡眠，因为缺乏睡眠会导致身体无法分泌生长激素来修复肌肉，去健身房只会适得其反。霍姆斯对此表示认同：虽然偶尔在睡眠良好时可以把运动排在前面，但从长期来看，**睡眠必须永远是健康管理的第一优先级**。 ### [20:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1209s) 严格规律作息带来的惊人回报 霍姆斯分享了自己践行规律作息的亲身经历。自 2017 年夏天起，她开始坚持将每天的入睡和起床时间锁定在 25 到 30 分钟的固定窗口内。 促使她做出这一改变的是安德鲁·菲利普斯（Andrew Phillips）发表于 2017 年的一篇哈佛大学为期四年的跟踪研究。该研究发现，能够最强有力预测大学生学术表现（GPA，即平均绩点）的睡眠指标并非时长，而是**入睡与醒来时间的规律性**——作息是否稳定，直接决定了学生拿 A 还是拿 B。正是看到这一坚实的研究成果，当时正与大量 NCAA 大学运动员、以及英超（EPL）、NBA、NFL、MLB 等世界顶级职业运动员紧密合作的霍姆斯，坚决将“作息规律性”确立为指导高绩效人群的核心基石。 ### [21:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1283s) 锁定就寝与起床时间：六年不生病的健康基石 Kristen Holmes 回忆起最初在 WHOOP 探索睡眠规律时的情景。当时系统尚未实现自动化监测，她只能通过 Excel 手动输入并分析数据。然而分析结果令人震惊：稳定的“入睡与起床时间”（Sleep-Wake Time）几乎能够精准预测后续所有的关键运动表现指标。随着团队逐步将内部负荷、外部负荷等客观生理数据与主观感知指标相结合，这一规律越发清晰——作息的一致性是决定身心状态的最底层支柱。 看到这些详实的数据后，Kristen 决定以身作则。自 2017 年夏天起，稳定作息成了她生活中“不可妥协的底线”（non-negotiable）。这一改变带来了惊人的身体反馈：从 2017 年至今，除了某次仅持续了 48 小时的轻微感冒外，她再也没有生过病，既没有流鼻涕、胃痛，甚至在整个疫情期间也从未感染过新冠（COVID-19）。尽管她平时保持着许多健康的作息与饮食习惯，但她坚信，固定作息时间是带来质变的最关键因素。 为了保证作息稳定，Kristen 遵循一套极其严格的执行策略： - **以起床时间为锚点**：无论因出差前往美国西海岸还是跨国飞行，只要工作与社交允许，她都尽可能紧跟家庭所在地的时间线。即便前一晚因故晚睡，次日早晨也绝对按时起床，用晨光准时校准生物钟（Circadian Rhythm），从而促使大脑在当晚同一时间正常分泌褪黑素、产生困意。 - **应对睡眠不足的短睡策略**：若某晚睡眠时间被压缩，她绝不在早晨赖床，而是在当天下午 1:30 之前安排 30 至 60 分钟的小憩，以防累积“睡眠债”（Sleep Debt）。她特别强调，睡眠债与个体的心理安全感、执行功能受损存在极高的关联。 - **晚间睡前例行程序**：每晚 9:15 至 9:30 左右上床，在柔和的微光下阅读纸质书籍 30 到 45 分钟，通常在晚上 10:00 左右入睡；次日早晨 6:00 准时起床，迎着晨光开启新的一天。 ### [24:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1450s) 针对轮班者与新手父母的生物钟破局点 Steven Bartlett 提出了许多人常有的疑问：对于家中有新生儿的父母或工作性质特殊的轮班人群，稳定作息往往身不由己。Kristen 对此深有共鸣，作为两个孩子的母亲，她直言“照顾生病的亲人、幼童或上夜班的人，在生理本质上都是轮班工作者（Shift Workers）”。在这个阶段，要求他们每天按时就寝确实脱离实际。 然而，生物节律并不单纯由睡眠时间决定。Kristen 指出，当人们因不可抗力无法掌控入睡时刻时，完全可以通过其他行为杠杆来挽救代谢与生理节律，其中最重要的工具就是**进食窗口（Feeding Window）**的控制。即便睡眠被打乱，只要精确管理每天第一口与最后一口食物的时间，依然能显著减轻代谢紊乱对心血管系统和免疫力造成的冲击。 ### [25:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1524s) 限时进食（TRE）与代谢健康的科学机制 谈到进食时间，Kristen 澄清了学术界与大众媒体在概念上的混淆： - **限时喂食（Time-Restricted Feeding, TRF）**：通常专指在小鼠等动物模型中开展的控制进食周期实验。 - **限时进食（Time-Restricted Eating, TRE）**：专指针对人类的研究，其核心是**将进食时间与昼夜光暗周期（Light-Dark Cycle）对齐**，重点在于进食的时序而非热量多寡。 - **间歇性断食（Intermittent Fasting, IF）**：大众常讨论的断食主要关注在特定周期内减少热量摄入，与生物钟节奏并不完全挂钩。 科学文献与大量研究表明，将每日进食时间压缩在 8 至 12 小时以内，能带来极为优异的代谢改善。人类在早晨刚醒来的一段时间内，消化系统对营养成分的代谢和利用效率处于全天峰值。WHOOP 的海量人群监测数据显示：**只要在入睡前至少 3 小时停止进食，用户的深度睡眠时长与次日生理恢复（Recovery）评分就会呈现指数级改善**。 Steven 提到了硅谷抗衰先锋 Bryan Johnson 每天早上 11:00 就结束全天进食的极端做法。Kristen 坦言这种方式对普通人来说过于严苛且不切实际。更为务实的目标是**在太阳落山前后结束晚餐**。她强调，现实中有很多人受限于经济条件，无法保证每餐都吃昂贵的优质有机食材，导致心脏代谢紊乱的高发；但即便食物质量暂时无法改变，仅凭将每日进食窗口压缩至 8 到 10 个小时，就能帮助人们达成约 60% 的代谢健康目标。 ### [28:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1714s) 为什么深夜进食会摧毁夜间修复？ Kristen 透露自己的日常进食窗口大约维持在 10 小时左右（例如早上 7:00 至下午 4:00 或 5:00），基本坚持在日落后不再摄入热量，确保就寝前留出充裕的消化缓冲区。 从神经生物学角度来看，消化与深度修复之间存在着天然的资源竞争冲突： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Late Night Eating vs Sleep Recovery Conflict accDescr: Diagram showing how eating late forces the parasympathetic nervous system to divert resources to digestion rather than cellular sleep repair, leading to elevated heart rate and poor recovery. subgraph ParasympatheticSystem["副交感神经系统（Rest and Digest）"] Resource["有限的神经调控与血流资源"] end subgraph DigestPathway["夜间进食（睡前 < 3小时）"] Digestion["肠胃持续消化与营养吸收"] BadResult["心率攀升 (如达到 70 bpm) / 压力分数升高 / 深度睡眠受阻"] end subgraph SleepPathway["空腹入眠（睡前 ≥ 3小时断食）"] Restoration["组织再生、大脑排毒与免疫修复"] GoodResult["静息心率下降 / HRV 上升 / 次日体能恢复良好"] end Resource -- 深夜进食抢占资源 --> Digestion --> BadResult Resource -- 消化完毕全力修复 --> Restoration --> GoodResult ``` 人体的自主神经系统包含交感神经（战斗或逃跑）和副交感神经（休息与消化）。睡眠需要身体全面进入副交感状态以进行组织再生、免疫修复和细胞更新；然而，消化食物同样是一个重度依赖副交感系统的生理过程。如果带着满腹食物入睡，机体便会面临资源分配的混乱，被迫将本应投入睡眠修复的血流和能量调拨给胃肠道。 这种资源分流在生理监测指标上表现得极为直接： - **心率（Heart Rate）居高不下**：未完成消化的机体在前半夜处于紧绷状态。 - **压力指数飙升，HRV（心率变异性）受抑**：身体无法顺利进入深睡阶段，深慢波睡眠被打断。 - **破坏力等同于饮酒**：Kristen 直言，在 WHOOP 全球用户的大数据中，**进食时机不当与摄入酒精**，是破坏夜间睡眠质量的两大最严重诱因。 Steven Bartlett 对此深有感触。他分享了自己过去的亲身经历：年轻时白天工作节奏极快经常忘记吃东西，深夜 9 点或 10 点回到家才点外卖，往往在夜里 11 点甚至午夜才吃完。每当这样吃完入睡，次日清晨醒来时整个人精疲力竭，“感觉自己像完全没睡过一样”。直到查看监测手环的数据，他才证实了自己的直觉猜测——在午夜摄入食物后，身体在睡眠前半段处于“持续待机开机”状态，前几个小时的心率竟始终维持在 70 bpm 的高位，彻底丧失了睡眠修复的价值。 ### [31:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1894s) 进食时间对代谢与心率的影响：下午3点前的热量窗口 史蒂芬提到自己此前经历的一个典型现象：在深夜大吃一顿后入睡，身体在长达三四个小时里就像仍然在四处走动一样，心率一直居高不下，直到三四个小时后才逐渐回落到正常的每分钟45次左右。克里斯汀对此深表赞同，指出这完全是食物代谢造成的生理反应。 克里斯汀引用了一项设计精妙的研究：该研究严格控制了变量，所有受试者的年龄相仿，进食完全相同的食物、相同的热量总量以及相同的宏量营养素配比，而且实验中没有任何热量限制（calorie restriction）。研究人员仅仅对比了两组人群——一组在下午3点之前摄入一天中大部分的热量，另一组则在下午3点之后进食。结果显示，在下午3点之前摄入大部分热量的受试者，其代谢指标显著更优，并且减重幅度明显更大。这一事实有力证明了不仅“吃什么”重要，“何时吃”对代谢与身体机能同样具有决定性作用。 ### [32:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1946s) 深夜锻炼的误区：激素激发与健身房强光的双重干扰 史蒂芬坦言自己日常生活中经常面临时间冲突：当早起未能按计划去健身房时，白天在演播室和办公室连续工作，到晚上7、8点甚至更晚回家，此时既饥肠辘辘又面临锻炼需求。他常常选择先锻炼再吃饭，导致吃夜宵时间被推迟到极晚；更有甚者，他常在夜间11点或午夜12点去健身。过去有一种传统观念认为，深夜精疲力竭地锻炼能让人上床后更容易入睡，但史蒂芬自身的体会却截然相反——锻炼后他反而感觉神采奕奕、异常兴奋。 克里斯汀解释，这种兴奋感完全符合人体生理学原理。高强度运动会触发肾上腺素（adrenaline）和皮质醇（cortisol）等应激激素的释放，这些激素充斥在循环系统中以支持机体输出能量，而在运动结束后，身体需要相当长的时间才能代谢这些生化物质并重回内环境稳态（homeostasis）。此外，克里斯汀指出，深夜锻炼影响睡眠的另一个往往被忽视的核心因素是“光线”：公共健身房通常灯火通明、光照充足，这种强光暴露向大脑主时钟传递了极其强烈的错误信号，告诉大脑此时是清醒和警觉的白天，从而彻底打乱了入睡准备节律。 ### [34:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=2049s) 早晚光照管理法则：清晨阳光充能与睡前褪黑素保护 谈到光照对生物钟的调控，史蒂芬分享了他伴侣晨起后的日常习惯：她每天醒来后都会主动走到阳台，在自然光下静坐10到20分钟。史蒂芬打趣道，伴侣在生活细节上几乎无可挑剔，有时候甚至优秀得让人“有点抓狂”。克里斯汀对这一做法给予了极高的赞誉，称其完美契合了神经生物学方案。她指出，人在醒来后的5到20分钟内，应当尽可能吸收高强度的光子能量（理想目标是接触约10万勒克斯的环境光），以此向体内的主时钟宣告一天的开始。普通的室内灯具光强远远达不到自然阳光的水平，因此唯有直接暴露于户外自然光下，才能迅速而彻底地启动昼夜节律。 与清晨的光照需求相反，夜间的管理逻辑则是严格限制光源。克里斯汀强调，太阳下山后，人们应当尽可能调暗室内环境光，并在睡前最大限度减少人造光暴露。其核心目的是保护体内褪黑素（melatonin）的自然分泌。当褪黑素分泌被抑制时，会与多种系统性慢性疾病及代谢紊乱直接相关。而促使下丘脑视交叉上核发出褪黑素释放指令的唯一生理开关就是“黑暗”。无论是手机和平板电脑上的滤光模式、防蓝光眼镜，还是降低环境照度，都是为了营造一个低刺激的暗光环境，让身体器官和细胞明确接收到“准备休眠”的信号。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 昼夜光照与生物钟调节机制 accDescr: 展示早晨自然强光与夜晚黑暗环境如何分别调控神经内分泌与睡眠状态 subgraph Morning["清晨唤醒阶段 (醒后5-20分钟)"] A["户外自然强光<br/>(约100,000 Lux)"] --> B["视网膜接收光子能量"] B --> C["刺激大脑主时钟 (视交叉上核)"] C --> D["抑制褪黑素 / 提升警觉与活力"] end subgraph Night["睡前准备阶段 (日落及睡前数小时)"] E["昏暗光照环境 / 消除人造光源"] --> F["黑暗信号传入中枢"] F --> G["松果体顺利释放褪黑素"] G --> H["驱动深度修复与组织再生"] end ``` ### [36:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=2192s) 睡眠环境与睡前刺激：眼罩、纯粹黑暗与白天的压力管理 史蒂芬回忆起早前参观 WHOOP 波士顿总部时的经历：当时团队正在研发睡眠眼罩，而他过去一直对眼罩抱有偏见，觉得飞机上那些戴着眼罩的人滑稽又尴尬，如今自己却也成了离不开眼罩的“怪人”之一。克里斯汀解释道，人类的大脑和感光受体对哪怕极微弱的人工光源都异乎寻常地敏感——闹钟屏幕的微光或电视指示灯的红点，都足以干扰脑电波平稳过渡到深层修复和再生睡眠阶段（月光等柔和自然光则无碍）。 随后史蒂芬半开玩笑地询问，深夜听连环杀手纪录片或惊悚悬疑类音频是否利于睡眠，并笑称自己这类人不在少数。克里斯汀回应道，理论上任何带来认知兴奋、心理刺激或情绪激活的内容都应该避免；但如果一个人主观上觉得这有助于转移注意力，且客观生理监测数据（如 WHOOP 的深睡阶段时长）证实其睡眠结构并未受损，那便无可厚非。 对于优质睡眠的底层法则，克里斯汀归纳了关键的环境要素与白天习惯： - **卧室物理环境三要素**：寒冷（Cold）、黑暗（Dark）、安静（Quiet）。 - **生理行为配合**：睡前数小时禁食，保持固定规律的作息时间。 - **全天候压力管理**：睡眠问题往往是日间清醒状态的镜像投射。若白天能主动梳理情绪、有效维系人际关系，并让行为与个人核心价值观保持一致，负面压力就不会在夜间反噬睡眠。 ### [39:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=2360s) 认知与执行脱节：如何通过底层价值观驱动行为改变 在讨论的尾声，史蒂芬触及了一个极其普遍的人性痛点：许多人听完了无数期顶尖健康专家的播客，甚至工工整整记下了笔记，但现实生活中依然深陷沮丧与自责之中。他们内心深知这是自律的缺失——他们完全有能力在晚上9点放下手机、完全可以不点开视频或拒绝深夜那块饼干，却总是在有清晰选择权的情况下一次又一次做出破坏健康的坏决策。史蒂芬向克里斯汀请教，面对这群“懂却做不到”的人，什么才是最有说服力的当头棒喝与破局之道。 克里斯汀指出，单纯依靠意志力去建立新习惯注定难以持久，破局的核心在于将新习惯牢牢绑定到个体内在的“核心价值观”（Core Values）上。她以自身为例，说明如果一个人认定“个人成长”（Growth）、“社会影响力”（Impact）和“当下专注力”（Presence）是生命中最重要的价值，那么他就必须倒推每天所需践行的具体微观行为。许多人之所以在深夜无意识地消耗自己、陷入拖延与恶习，本质上是因为对自己想成为什么样的人认知模糊，缺乏明确清晰的人生追求与价值观底线。这种内心的混沌必然导致个人在身体、精神与情绪层面无向乱撞，唯有先彻底想清楚自己真正珍视什么，才能赋予日常行为以持久的执行力。 ### [41:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=2495s) 审视社交圈与远离负面行为 克里斯汀·霍姆斯（Kristen Holmes）谈到，为了践行自己认可的健康习惯，人们必须建立日常行为的宣泄出口，而这往往意味着需要做出艰难的选择——疏远甚至告别那些不支持这些价值观的人。她指出，许多人在社交圈上往往过于纵容和妥协，身边留着很多无法促使自己变成“更好版本”的人。当斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）问她自己是否也曾主动割舍过某些人时，克里斯汀毫不犹豫地给出了肯定的回答。 她解释自己割舍这些人的原因十分纯粹：因为他们的行为模式阻碍了她想成为的人。她希望自己每天清晨醒来时能够充满喜悦与充沛的精力，能够全心全意地陪伴孩子。克里斯汀坦言，自己这辈子几乎滴酒不沾，正是因为亲眼目睹了酒精对家庭的摧毁。然而在过去的一段时间里，她却依然身处一个周围充斥着这类行为的环境中。特别是在大学这类教育机构中，过度酗酒（binge drinking）竟然被高度正常化，这种普遍的风气对她的核心价值观造成了巨大冲击。即便她深爱着那些朋友且自己并不饮酒，长期待在这种氛围中依然让她感到无法成为理想中的自己，最终她不得不做出艰难抉择，清理环境以建立支持自我成长的外部支撑。 - 人际关系的割舍标准在于对方是否支持你的核心价值观以及你想成为的人。 - 许多大学等高等教育机构将严重酗酒文化视为“常态”，这种环境具有隐性破坏力。 - 建立能支撑良好习惯与目标的外部环境（infrastructure），往往需要经历令人痛苦的关系断舍离。 --- ### [45:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=2714s) 成瘾家庭的童年阴影与情感疏离 斯蒂芬指出，普通的改变习惯和对抗成瘾（addiction）完全是两个不同层面的问题，并借此问及克里斯汀在成瘾母亲身边成长的真实经历。克里斯汀透露，这种痛苦伴随了她的整个童年生活，她的母亲最终死于严重的肝硬化（cirrhosis）。在这样的家庭中长大，最底层的感受就是“被剥夺优先权”（deprioritized）与极度的缺乏看护。 克里斯汀回忆，由于母亲沉溺于酒精，父亲又是个将工作作为逃避手段的“工作狂”（尽管他是一位非常有正直品格的好人），幼小的她必须学会自己觅食、独立处理日常琐事。这种童年虽然逼迫她养成了极强的独立生存能力，但也带来了难以磨灭的心灵创伤——成年后很难与他人建立深度的情感依恋（emotional attachments），因为内心深处始终存在一种“不会有人真正照顾自己”的深层恐惧。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 成瘾家庭童年经历对个人成长的双重影响 accDescr: 展示母亲酒精成瘾如何导致缺乏照料与情感疏离，并转化为对健康科学的研究动力 subgraph 家庭环境 A["母亲酒精成瘾与抑郁"] --> B["家庭监护缺失 / 被忽视"] C["父亲以工作狂方式逃避"] --> B end subgraph 心理与行为后果 B --> D["极早被迫独立生存"] B --> E["成年后形成情感依恋障碍"] end subgraph 人生动机转化 D --> F["竞技体育高水平自我探索"] E --> G["投身生理节律与健康科学研究"] F --> G end ``` - 幼年面对父母成瘾最核心的感受是被冷落忽视与缺乏看管。 - 严苛孤独的环境造就了过早的独立，但代价是成年后难以建立安全的情感依恋。 - 母亲同时深受季节性情绪失调（Seasonal Affective Disorder, SAD）和重度抑郁症（Major Depressive Disorder）困扰，这直接激发了克里斯汀日后对光照疗法与昼夜节律健康潜力的深入研究。 --- ### [48:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=2900s) 痛苦的转化：从未公开的使命感 谈及对母亲挣扎的理解，克里斯汀动情地反思，那个时代对抑郁症与成瘾的关联缺乏正确认知，相关行为甚至被社会常态化，母亲从未得到恰当的医疗诊断与干预。克里斯汀强调，虽然大脑构造表明部分人在生理上确实存在成瘾易感性，但人类依然可以通过很多后天可控的生活方式来降低患病脆弱性。作为曾代表美国出战的高水平竞技运动员，她最初钻研身心机制是为了发挥运动极限，但整个职业生涯最深层的底色，其实是目睹母亲未能发挥自身潜力而产生的巨大心碎。 讲到母亲拥有如此惊人的潜力却被病痛摧毁时，克里斯汀在镜头前忍不住哽咽落泪，坦言这是自己第一次在公众面前袒露这段往事。斯蒂芬递上纸巾并由衷赞叹，正是这种将不可想象的剧痛转化为拯救数十万人生命动力的过程，赋予了她无与伦比的驱动力与使命感。克里斯汀表示，她担任教练多年正是热衷于看到人们实现潜能；如果能用科学的“非妥协健康基准”（non-negotiables）加速世人的领悟，避免更多人经历她曾承受的痛苦，这一切付出就都具有非凡的价值。 - 神经科学显示成瘾存在先天遗传易感性，但通过后天行为控制可以有效降低脆弱风险。 - 克里斯汀的底层研究驱动力，源自对母亲一生未能实现自我潜能（self-actualize）的深切遗憾。 - 长期从事教练与健康科学工作的核心目的，是帮助公众跨越认知盲区，守护基本生理底线。 --- ### [51:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3114s) 告别非黑即白：行为的“非中性原则” 话题转向酒精对睡眠与生理的深远危害。斯蒂芬分享了自己的转变：他在大约三四个月前彻底戒酒。他提到，自己曾与戒酒成功并出书的前酗酒者好友聚餐，席间其他朋友都只是偶尔喝一杯的“社交轻度饮酒者”（casual drinkers），每周最多喝一杯红酒甚至数月不沾。斯蒂芬当时发现，市面上绝大多数讲戒酒的书都是针对重度成瘾者的，并没有一本书告诉那些饮酒量极少、处于摇摆边缘的普通人为什么要迈出彻底戒酒的最后一步。 克里斯汀随即引入了她审视所有生活习惯的核心框架——“非中性原则”（principle of non-neutrality）。她强调，世界上没有任何一种行为在生理或心理上是绝对“中性”的：无论是睡眠、日常生理习惯还是心理状态，某项具体行为要么是在支持你的人生核心价值观（如追求成长、产生积极影响、全然活在当下），要么就是在对其造成阻碍。如果用这个镜头来审视酒精，答案就会变得无比清晰：即便微量饮酒，也绝非毫无代价的“无害消遣”。 - 斯蒂芬指出市面上缺乏针对“轻度/社交饮酒者”戒酒价值的深度科学解释。 - “非中性原则”（The Principle of Non-Neutrality）：任何生理或心理行为对健康与目标的影响都不是零，它要么带来增益，要么造成损耗。 - 重新审视酒精的视角不应局限于“是否成瘾”，而在于它是否契合个人对活力、专注与自我实现的核心追求。 ### [53:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3237s) 自我认知与微小抉择：酒精真的能帮助社交吗？ Kristen Holmes 深入探讨了个人价值观对日常微小决策的指导作用。她认为，同理心和宽容度构成了她立足于世的核心准则。当一个人真正对自己坦诚、具备高度的自我觉察并明确自身在乎的事情时，生活中的各种选择就会变得无比清晰。日常生活中充斥着成百上千个微小的抉择：这个决定是否支持你想成为的那个人？在 Kristen 看来，这里面几乎没有任何灰色地带，所谓的“灰色”本质上只是借口和自我合理化的说辞，用来让自己心里舒服罢了。一旦人们跳出主观情绪，客观审视自身行为，类似“要不要喝酒”这样的抉择就会一目了然。 面对 Steven 提出的经典反驳——“但酒精能帮我更好地社交”，Kristen 一针见血地指出：如果你需要依赖酒精才能与他人建立纽带或连接，那么背后往往隐藏着更深层且未被解决的心理议题。至于是否存在所谓的“无害微量饮酒”，Kristen 坦言尽管个体存在差异，但市面上流传的“红酒抗氧化”说辞站不住脚。人们常提红酒和葡萄中富含白藜芦醇（Resveratrol），并将其与增进健康挂钩，但事实上一天可能得喝下 10 瓶红酒才能摄入足以产生显著生理效果的剂量。现有科学文献明确表明，哪怕每周仅摄入 1 至 2 杯酒，也会对健康产生负面影响，所谓的“适度饮酒有益健康”在很大程度上并不成立。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 饮酒对生理与睡眠的多重连锁破坏机制 accDescr: 展示饮酒如何通过行为改变、激素抑制和自主神经紊乱导致睡眠质量断崖式下跌。 subgraph Behaviors["伴随行为与节律紊乱"] A["晚间社交饮酒"] --> B["推迟就寝与接触人造强光"] A --> C["深夜进食与消化负担"] end subgraph Hormones["内分泌与神经系统反应"] B --> D["褪黑素分泌被抑制约 20%"] C --> E["自主神经失衡：交感神经过载"] end subgraph Impact["生理恢复受损"] D --> F["深睡眠缺失与睡眠片段化"] E --> G["心率升高 / HRV 呈线性骤降"] F --> H["次日恢复评分显著下滑（低至红区）"] G --> H end ``` --- ### [56:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3390s) 饮酒对昼夜节律与睡眠质量的毁灭性打击 从昼夜节律的角度来看，酒精之所以极具破坏性，首要原因在于它彻底打乱了睡眠的起始与觉醒时间。饮酒往往伴随着一整套破坏生物钟的行为模式：在酒吧或派对玩到深夜、暴露在强烈的人造光线下、深夜大量进餐，这些连锁反应将酒精的负面效应成倍放大。而从内分泌机制来看，酒精严重干扰了褪黑素的分泌节律。 Steven 援引了睡眠基金会（Sleep Foundation）的数据来佐证这一观点： - **2007 年针对 29 名年轻成人的研究**：睡前 1 小时内摄入适量酒精，会使体内的褪黑素分泌量骤降近 **20%**。 - **2018 年涵盖 4,908 名芬兰受试者的大规模研究**： - 仅喝 **1 杯红酒**，睡眠质量下降 **9.3%**； - 喝 **2 杯红酒**，睡眠质量下降 **24%**； - 喝 **3 杯或更多红酒**（或等量酒精），睡眠质量断崖式暴跌 **39.2%**（接近 **40%**）。 Kristen 对此表示完全吻合实验室与临床数据。WHOOP 刚刚完成的一项针对酒精与恢复指标（心率变异性 HRV 和静息心率）的大数据分析显示，饮酒量与身体恢复指标之间存在着极度显著的**线性负相关**——哪怕仅仅摄入一杯酒精饮料，都会在临床层面上造成自主神经系统的显著受损，引起心率升高和 HRV 锐减。 --- ### [58:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3507s) WHOOP 闪烁的红灯：从个人顿悟到用户大数据 谈到这里，Steven 分享了他彻底戒酒的转折点。在他第一次戴上 WHOOP 智能手环后不久，恰逢朋友过生日，他当晚只喝了一杯红酒。然而第二天清晨醒来查看手环时，原本代表身体应对压力与负荷能力的指标——心率变异性（HRV）——直接跌到了象征严重警告的“红区”闪烁不停。应用界面甚至直接弹出提示：“你昨天经历了巨大压力、生病了，还是昨晚喝了酒？” Steven 当时感到被“精准命中”甚至有些被冒犯：“这东西怎么知道我昨晚和朋友喝了一杯红酒？为什么我体内会有个指标在疯狂闪红灯？”正是这种即时可视化的生理创伤，成为了他戒除酒精的最强驱动力。 Kristen 指出，WHOOP 日记（WHOOP Journal）积累了海量真实生活数据。分析显示，用户在饮酒后的次日，身体恢复度（Recovery Score）**平均下降 6%**。需要指出的是，该数据跨越了从 1 杯到 10 杯的不同摄入量并排除了极端酗酒样本，受试中位数大约在每晚 5 杯左右。尽管这项数据依赖于用户自主填报，可能存在“喝了 10 杯的人自以为只喝了 4 杯”的认知偏差或记忆模糊，但酒精对机体次日机能与抗压能力的普遍剥夺是毋庸置疑的客观事实。 --- ### [01:00:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3615s) 咖啡因的时间窗口与倒班工人的寿命代价 除了酒精，日常生活中最常见的另一大精神活性物质是咖啡因。Kristen 强调，咖啡因是强效的昼夜节律破坏源。如果为了保证高质量的睡眠，摄入咖啡因的时间应当距离计划就寝时间至少保持 **8 到 12 个小时**的间隔。即便一个人极度缺乏睡眠、积聚了足够高的睡眠压力能够强行入睡，血液中残留的咖啡因仍会不可避免地导致睡眠片段化，剥夺深睡眠阶段，让人在次日醒来时依然感到疲惫不堪，无法获得真正的身心修复。 这种对生物节律的探讨让 Steven 和 Kristen 对“轮班/倒班工作者”（Shift Workers）产生了极大的敬畏与同情。这里的倒班工人不仅指仓库搬运工，更包括医生、护士、消防员、警察、卡车司机和面包烘焙师等维持社会运转的关键人群。从生理学定义上讲，**任何在晚上 10 点至凌晨 4 点之间清醒超过 2 小时的人，都属于倒班工作者**。这意味着无数人在违背自然的“生物学黑夜”中强行工作。世界卫生组织（WHO）早已将倒班工作列为致癌因素，而统计数据更为残酷：**倒班工作者的平均预期寿命比正常作息人群缩短整整 15 年**。 - **寿命代价**：长期打破昼夜节律的倒班人员，平均寿命减少约 15 岁。 - **应对策略与瓶颈**：Kristen 正在深入研究如何通过“限时进食”（Time-restricted eating）、精准控制蛋白质摄入时机、科学的光照管理，以及优化轮班间隔来减轻倒班对身体的摧残。然而现实中医院等机构的人员编制严重不足，根本无法排布出符合人体昼夜节律的理想班表。 --- ### [01:03:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3817s) 节律失调与心理健康：“社交时差”的潜在隐患 作息长期逆自然昼夜节律而行，不仅摧毁身体寿命，更对心理健康、抑郁倾向和自杀风险产生深远的负面影响。Kristen 将话题从倒班人群延伸到普通大众身上，指出绝大多数年轻人正普遍遭受“社交时差”（Social Jet Lag）的折磨。 所谓的社交时差，是指工作日（周一至周五）与周末（周六、周日）之间就寝和起床时间的剧烈波动，这种情况在 20 至 30 岁的人群中极为普遍。周末熬夜狂欢、白天补觉，实质上等同于每周都在人为制造跨时区的时差反应。Kristen 提到一项专门针对大学生社交时差的最新科研成果：工作日与周末作息时间之间每增加 1 个小时的波动差异，都会对神经心理状态产生极其显著的负面连锁反应。 ### [01:04:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3873s) 昼夜节律紊乱与心理健康及轮班人群的脆弱性 Kristen Holmes 谈到了昼夜节律失调与心理健康之间的触目惊心的联系。研究数据显示，在这种紊乱状态下，非自杀性意念（non-suicidal ideation）增加了 17%——这些人虽然并未真正实施自杀，但脑海中却不断幻想、盘旋着自杀念头，而且这种现象在本身就处于脆弱状态的个体中表现得更为剧烈。Kristen 指出，昼夜节律紊乱几乎存在于 100% 的心理健康问题当中，这让轮班工作者（shift workers）成为了心理疾病的极高危人群。从 WHOOP 的海量监测数据来看，轮班人员的睡眠与觉醒时间在图表上呈现出来的状态几乎是“纯随机”的，甚至根本看不出任何规律性模式。这种随机性是极其可怕的，因为作息波动越大，人体在生理和心理上承受的负面后果就越严重。 面对主持人的提问，Kristen 强调了日常压力管理对于提升心理耐受力的关键作用。对于处于高风险、高压力环境下的倒班人员而言，人体在生理黑夜保持清醒，内部系统就已经在远超正常水平的压力负荷下持续运转，机体为了维持内稳态（homeostasis）必须付出成倍的努力，因为这完全是在逆着生理偏好行事。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 轮班工作与昼夜节律紊乱对身心的负面影响链路 accDescr: 展示轮班打乱节律、增加压力并引发心理问题的恶性循环过程 subgraph Rhythms["节律失调与负荷"] A["轮班工作 / 生理黑夜清醒"] --> B["昼夜节律完全随机紊乱"] B --> C["打破身体内稳态 (Homeostasis)"] end subgraph Impacts["身心负面后果"] C --> D["慢性压力负荷大幅增加"] D --> E["非自杀性意念增加 17%"] D --> F["心理健康问题极度易感"] end subgraph Intervention["即时干预手段"] G["微减压时刻: 生理学叹息"] -.->|对冲激活副交感神经| D end ``` --- ### [01:06:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3986s) 应对即时压力：生理学叹息（Physiological Sigh） 为了打破这种高压负荷，Kristen 极力提倡建立“微减压时刻”（mini moments of deactivation）。她指出，利用呼吸法作为一种随取随用的自我调节工具，可以在短时间内迅速激活副交感神经系统（parasympathetic branch），从而对冲即时压力。在所有呼吸技巧中，经过科学验证最为有效的就是“生理学叹息”（physiological sigh）。 - **生理学叹息的操作方式**：连续进行两次快速吸气（double inhale），随后紧接着一次深长而缓慢的呼气（extended exhale）。这就像婴儿或人在哭泣啜泣时不由自主出现的呼吸模式。 - **生理机制与收益**：哪怕只花 30 秒重复 5 到 10 次，就能有力地降低心率、唤醒副交感神经，不仅能即刻缓解当前的焦虑与紧张感，还能重塑未来个体对压力的主观感知，有效阻止负面压力的滚雪球式累积。 --- ### [01:07:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4074s) 睡眠负债（Sleep Debt）对决策与执行功能的严重削弱 主持人 Steven Bartlett 提出了一个令人痛心的悖论：社会中最需要注意力高度集中、绝不能出错的岗位（例如急诊医生和倒班护士），恰恰是昼夜节律被破坏得最严重、最容易出现睡眠剥夺的群体。Kristen 证实了这一点，并引用了 WHOOP 平台的一项量化发现：在数据模型中，用户每累积 45 分钟的“睡眠负债”（Sleep Debt，即身体实际需要的睡眠量与实际获得的睡眠量之间的差值），次日的执行功能（executive function）及心理控制力就会出现 5% 到 10% 的断崖式下滑。 在针对企业高管（CEO群体）的一项为期六个月的研究中，研究团队利用多任务控制（MC）和斯特鲁普测试（Stroop test）等认知测评工具来衡量决策能力。结果显示，不论男女高管，执行功能下降与睡眠负债直接挂钩——高管背负的睡眠债越多，他们在处理复杂问题和作出关键决策时的表现就越糟糕。 --- ### [01:10:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4219s) 领导者睡眠负债如何摧毁团队的“心理安全感”与企业绩效 随后进行的一项跟踪研究揭示了一个更具震撼力的现象：研究人员对约 70 位企业高管的客观指标（包括睡眠负债）与其直属下属在团队会议中的“心理安全感”（psychological safety）进行了交叉分析。心理安全感被定义为：员工在工作环境中是否能自在、安全地展现出最真实的自我。研究发现，领导者每背负 45 分钟的睡眠负债，下属感受到的团队心理安全感就会显著暴跌，两者之间呈现出明显的线性负相关。 最耐人寻味也是最隐蔽的一点在于，**这些领导者自身对此毫无察觉**。他们主观上根本感知不到自己的认知、体能和情绪表达已经大幅衰退，而是默默“适应”了这种低水平的运转状态。然而，周围的所有人却能通过细枝末节清晰地感受到： - 领导者脸上僵硬的面部表情与情绪流露 - 眼神交流的方式与专注度 - 领导者在交流过程中展现出的耐心与容忍度 Kristen 指出，睡眠剥夺从来不是一个孤立的个人问题，它会波及你身边的每一个人。她援引了谷歌著名的“亚里士多德项目”（Project Aristotle），该项目在探究高效团队的核心特质时发现，团队绩效最核心的预测因子正是“心理安全感”。在具备高心理安全感的环境下，团队的营收表现比缺乏安全感的团队高出了 450 万美元。因此，从“非中立原则”（即任何行为都有其代价或助益）来看，尽最大可能减少睡眠负债，是维持高水准团队领导力和生活自洽的首要前提。 --- ### [01:13:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4390s) 认知盲区、交通事故与睡眠质量的本质 对话随后延伸到了意外事故和身体损伤的层面。睡眠负债与个人受伤概率及引发外部事故的风险具有极其明确的正相关性，这种现象在医疗行业和交通驾驶领域尤为普遍。 - **车祸风险数据**：根据美国交通安全基金会（Foundation for Traffic Safety）2016 年的一项权威研究，每天平均睡眠仅有 4 至 5 小时的驾驶员，其发生撞车事故的概率是每天睡眠 7 小时及以上司机的 **5.4 倍**。 Kristen 总结道，现代社会在面对睡眠危机时往往走入了误区：大家只是简单粗暴地劝说人们“在床上多躺一会儿”，但如果根本不从行为习惯和昼夜节律的角度去调整那些真正影响“能否入睡”和“维持睡眠”的生理底层机制，那么光靠延长卧床时间根本无法解决问题。 ### [01:14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4483s) 睡眠不足与运动损伤风险 尽管改善睡眠环境（如保持卧室凉爽、黑暗、安静）确实有帮助，但 Kristen Holmes 指出，在最基础的层面，大多数人并未真正采取能够“还清睡眠债”的核心行为。讨论中提到了一项 2021 年的研究：如果每晚睡眠少于 7 小时，人体的受伤风险会显著增加；若这种缺觉状态持续 14 天以上，肌肉和骨骼受伤的风险将高达正常状态的近 2 倍（1.7 倍）。 Steven Bartlett 结合自身经历表示，对于像他这样经常去健身房锻炼的人而言，长期积累的睡眠债意味着极高的受伤概率。Kristen 强调，睡眠是地球上人类拥有的最强大且最天然的运动表现增强剂（natural performance enhancer），这一点在其团队进行的所有生理研究中都得到了极为明确的验证。 - 持续 14 天以上睡眠不足 7 小时，骨骼与肌肉损伤风险增加 1.7 倍（近两倍）。 - 充足睡眠是任何体能表现与身体恢复不可或缺的基础底线。 --- ### [01:15:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4543s) 性生活、伴侣联结与睡眠恢复 谈及性生活对睡眠的影响时，Kristen 透露了 Whoop 尚未正式发表的初步研究数据：在睡前几小时内与固定伴侣（如配偶、长期男女朋友）发生性关系，是一种能够促进健康的积极行为，受试者的多项睡眠与身体恢复指标均表现得更好。Kristen 特别强调了“伴侣”（with a partner）这一前提，因为数据并未在自慰（masturbation）或没有情感连接的行为中观察到同样显著的积极恢复效益。 Steven 追问为什么自慰没有相同效果，以及睡前长时间的性行为是否会因肾上腺素飙升反而让人保持清醒。Kristen 解释道，男性在高潮射精后会释放催产素（Oxytocin），这是一种能带来平静、放松与安全感的化学物质。而这种神经内分泌反应在与固定伴侣亲密接触时会伴随深刻的心理联结（connection），从而使身心进入易于入睡并维持深度睡眠的状态。两人还风趣地聊到男女在性行为后的生理差异：男性往往在射精后由于催产素分泌迅速困意袭来并呼呼大睡，而女性则通常更倾向于依偎在伴侣怀里聊天。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 伴侣亲密行为对睡眠恢复的生理机制 accDescr: 展示睡前与伴侣性生活如何通过催产素释放与心理安全感促进深度睡眠与身体恢复 subgraph Interaction ["睡前亲密互动"] A["与固定伴侣发生性行为"] --> B["达到高潮 / 射精"] A --> C["建立情感联结与安全感"] end subgraph BiologicalResponse ["神经内分泌反应"] B --> D["催产素 (Oxytocin) 大量释放"] C --> E["副交感神经激活 / 镇静状态"] end subgraph Outcome ["睡眠与恢复"] D --> F["产生困意与镇静效应"] E --> F F --> G["优化睡眠质量与身体恢复指标"] end ``` - Whoop 平台的日记追踪（Journal tracking）完全由用户自主匿名选择填报，数据脱敏处理以保护隐私。 - 伴侣间的信任与情感连接是促使催产素发挥最大镇静、促眠效应的关键催化剂。 --- ### [01:19:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4740s) 赞助商插播：Whoop 与 Shopify Steven Bartlett 在中插广告中分享了他长期选用 Whoop 作为主力健康穿戴设备的核心原因：非侵入式设计、独特深入的生理数据分析、与产品共同迭代的会员机制，以及最重要的一点——驱动深度的行为改变。通过新推出的 Whoop Coach、行为日记（Journal）和每周计划等功能，他能够直观量化白天活动对夜间睡眠与压力水平的直接影响。随后，Steven 还介绍了其团队用于销售商品（如播客对话卡片）的全球电商平台 Shopify，并为听众提供了首月 1 美元的专属试用福利。 --- ### [01:20:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4853s) 心率变异性（HRV）的科学本质与个体基线 Steven 坦言自己每天早晨醒来第一件事就是查看自己的心率变异性（HRV, Heart Rate Variability），甚至到了略显“痴迷”的地步，以此了解身体从前一晚中恢复了多少。Kristen 为此通俗解释了 HRV 的生理原理：它本质上是连续心跳之间微小时间间隔的波动幅度。HRV 虽然由心脏搏动体现，但其根源在于自主神经系统（Autonomic Nervous System）中两大分支的动态抗衡——负责“战斗或逃跑”的交感神经，与负责“休息和消化”的副交感神经都在不断向心脏发送调节信号。 当身体处于充分恢复的高机能状态时，心脏能够对来自两大系统的指令做出极其灵敏、动态的响应，从而更好、更灵活地适应外部环境的压力。因此，HRV 越高代表身体的适应性与弹性越好，而心跳过于机械化、一成不变（如同节拍器般规律）反而意味着处于高压或恢复不良状态。Kristen 强调，HRV 是一个极度个性化的指标，受先天气质、心脏大小、生理性别、过往生活行为（如酗酒、药物滥用）以及童年创伤等复杂因素共同影响，因此盲目与他人攀比绝对数值毫无意义，建立并观察自己的“个人健康基线”（Personal Baseline）才是科学管理恢复的核心。 - **HRV 生理本质**：心跳间距的细微差异，反映自主神经系统（交感与副交感）对心脏的动态平衡掌控力。 - **高 HRV vs 低 HRV**： - 高 HRV（心跳间歇参差有致）：代表自主神经系统极具弹性，环境压力适应能力与身体恢复度高。 - 低 HRV（心跳间歇过于机械均等）：代表交感神经占主导或神经系统迟钝，身体处于疲劳或高压状态。 - **基线因人而异**：基线水平由遗传基因、心脏结构、性别以及人生过往健康史共同铸就，应关注自身基线的相对涨跌而非他人绝对数值。 ### [01:24:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5066s) HRV 的基准、年龄衰退与性别差异 在探讨心率变异性（HRV）的标准时，克里斯汀·霍姆斯指出，尽管总体而言“数值越高越好”，但并不存在一个绝对的“理想数字”，因为 HRV 与年龄密切相关。人体随着衰老，心率变异性平均每年会下降约 3% 到 4%，斯蒂芬·巴特利特听到这一比例时不禁惊呼“这太吓人了”。根据 WHOOP 平台的海量监测数据，20 至 30 岁人群的基准 HRV 大致在 65 到 70 毫秒之间，30 至 40 岁人群略有回落，而 40 至 50 岁人群则普遍降至 50 毫秒左右。大众之所以对这项指标高度痴迷，是因为它极其敏锐地反映了一个人身体、心理和情绪状态的综合健康水平。 男女之间在 HRV 基准上也存在生理差异。通常情况下，男性的 HRV 基础水平往往略高于女性，这在很大程度上与男性平均拥有更大的心脏体积和心肌结构有关。无论起点如何，HRV 都是衡量自主神经系统动态平衡的黄金标尺。 - **年龄衰退率**：成年后 HRV 每年自然下降约 3% 至 4%。 - **各年龄段 WHOOP 基准区间**：20-30 岁约为 65-70 ms；30-40 岁小幅走低；40-50 岁通常处于 50-60 ms 范围。 - **性别生理差异**：男性由于平均心脏容积与肌肉质量较大，基准 HRV 略高于女性。 --- ### [01:25:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5126s) 提升心率变异性的全方位行为与训练方案 当斯蒂芬询问如何提高自己那项“看似充满谜团”的 HRV 时，克里斯汀给出了极具实操性的生活方式处方。核心首要原则是固定昼夜节律，“早晨醒来的时间点是第一优先级”，每天必须在固定时刻起床，并在醒来后立即接受大量光照（bolus of light），全天也要充分接触自然光，以平抑炎症因子并校准皮质醇分泌。此外，日常压力管理不可或缺；压力本身并不可怕，关键在于主动构建“压力-休息周期”（stress-rest cycles），切忌长期处于紧绷奔波的耗竭状态。在饮食方面，她建议将一天的能量摄入重心前移到早晨，补充充足的优质蛋白质，并在睡前三小时彻底停止进食。 在运动干预上，克里斯汀提倡心血管系统与神经系统的“极化训练”（polarized training）： 1. **高强度区间（Zone 5）**：每周进行 2 至 3 次竭尽全力、呼吸急促的极限冲刺训练。 2. **低强度耐力（Zone 2）**：保持在最大心率 60% 左右的轻松状态，她认为官方推荐的每周 150 分钟远远不够，若想显著拉升 HRV，应达到每周 200 至 300 分钟。 3. **抗阻力量训练**：每周进行数次，强化心血管与自主神经系统的协同适应能力。 在恢复端，彻底远离酒精是提高神经系统适应外界压力能力的关键底线，同时必须保证充足的在床时间以避免累积睡眠债。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 提升 HRV 的核心支柱 accDescr: 展示提升心率变异性的四大行为体系，包括节律控制、主动恢复、饮食管理与极化运动。 subgraph RHYTHM["昼夜节律与环境"] A["固定晨起时间点"] --> B["晨间与日间强光照射"] end subgraph LIFESTYLE["生活与饮食节律"] C["蛋白质前置 + 睡前3小时禁食"] D["严格戒酒 + 清偿睡眠债"] end subgraph TRAINING["极化运动方案"] E["Zone 2 低强耐力<br>(200-300 分钟/周)"] F["Zone 5 极限间歇<br>(2-3 次/周)"] G["抗阻力量训练<br>(每周数次)"] end subgraph RECOVERY["自主神经调控"] H["交感与副交感平衡<br>(压力-休息微循环)"] end RHYTHM --> H LIFESTYLE --> H TRAINING --> H ``` --- ### [01:28:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5306s) 社交连接与久坐危机：单次健身无法抵消连续静坐 除了严谨的生理作息，高质量的人际互动同样是滋养神经系统的重要一环。克里斯汀强调，置身于认同并支持自身价值观的社交圈层中，对机体减压和自主神经调节具有不可替代的价值。斯蒂芬随后谈到现代生活方式中普遍存在的“久坐危机”：随着网约车、办公室电脑以及居家办公的普及，整个西方社会每年的身体活动量正呈断崖式下跌，人类正在主动将肢体动作从生活中“优化”出去。 克里斯汀指出，很多人存在认知误区，以为早晨在健身房猛练一小时，就等于拿到了“在工位上连坐一整天的许可证”。研究数据表明，连续静坐超过 4 小时与全因死亡率的上升显著相关。为了保护心血管健康并维系理想的 HRV，最佳策略是将久坐时间碎片化：每专注工作 30 至 60 分钟，就必须站起来走动 5 分钟左右，打断连续的久坐状态后再返回工作。 - **连续久坐的致病性**：单次连续静坐达 4 小时以上，会直接抵消日常运动带来的代谢与心血管保护，推高全因死亡风险。 - **最佳微活动干预**：每隔半小时至一小时，进行约 5 分钟的起身轻度活动。 - **社交环境的生理投射**：身边拥有支持个人核心价值观的伴侣或伙伴，能显著缓冲慢性环境压力对 HRV 的侵蚀。 --- ### [01:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5400s) 心理与生理的互通：感恩机制与成长型思维 斯蒂芬提及克里斯汀在 2020 年发表过一篇关于改善 HRV 的文章，其中提出了诸如“实践感恩”这样出人意料的心理干预项。正在攻读心理学博士学位的克里斯汀解释道，科学文献显示，相比于单向表达感谢，“接收并内化他人的感恩”（receiving gratitude）——例如认真阅读并体会一封真挚的感谢信——对机体情绪调节和长期幸福感的提升效果最为深远；当然，主动表达感恩同样能为心理运作带来诸多正面效益。 这种现象将讨论引向了健康管理中的认知层面。关于文章中提到的“成长型思维”（growth mindset），克里斯汀指出其本质在于“个体是否坚信未来具备成长与进化的可能”。如果一个人认为未来充满潜力和学习空间，抱持乐观预期，自主神经系统就会处于更具弹性的应激模式；相反，一旦陷入悲观宿命论，深感能力受限、幸福无望，这种受限的认知就会直接转化为自主神经张力失衡，并在生理层面直观地投射为更低、更僵化的心率变异性。 --- ### [01:32:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5540s) 积极心态的生产力红利：生理基础决定认知上限 斯蒂芬援引哈佛大学知名学者肖恩·埃科尔（Shawn Achor）的研究，佐证积极心态不仅关乎主观感受，更是硬核的生产力杠杆：处于积极心态下的医生，其诊断速度与准确率比中性心态的医生高出 19%；而积极的职场员工，其工作效率比消极员工高出 31%。克里斯汀认同环境和部分遗传因素会影响一个人倾向于“半杯水满还是半杯水空”的悲观或乐观底色，但她犀利地指出，现代心理学界往往过度孤立地探讨认知。 现实中，人们很难凭空通过“自我喊话”将自己说服进一个美好的未来。如果一个人的底层生理架构——昼夜节律紊乱、睡眠不足、营养失调、缺乏体能活动——彻底崩塌，大脑就会深感缺乏应对现实挑战的资源与力量，此时谈论成长型思维无异于空中楼阁。只有把光照、睡眠、压力管理和极化训练等生理基础打牢，神经系统才能提供稳定的能量底座，个体才能真正掌握并重构自己的思维模式，撬动高效的工作与生活状态。 ### [01:34:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5651s) 动机的根源：评价、感知与能量生成 日常生活中许多人常常抱怨自己“缺乏动机”，看到凌晨三点还在吃垃圾食品、刷无聊电视的人，往往会觉得像 Kristen Holmes 这样高度自律的人天生就拥有某种超常的天赋。然而，Kristen 指出，动机的核心本质实际上是“能量生成”（energy production），而决定一个人潜在动机上限的，是心理学与生理学中两个关键维度的相互作用： 1. **评价（Appraisal）**：这项任务与我个人的相关性有多高？它为什么重要（即个人的“Why”）？ 2. **感知（Perception）**：这项任务在主观感受中是简单、困难还是具有挑战性？ Steven Bartlett 提到，这与他在自己书中所提出的“自律方程式”高度契合。Kristen 对此深表赞同，并分享了她过往执教常春藤盟校球队的成功秘诀：团队之所以能表现优异，正是因为她让每位运动员都找到属于他们自己的个人价值与追求目标（而非强行灌输球队的宏大口号），并将日常训练环境设计得富有挑战性。许多领导者和团队之所以表现不佳，恰恰是因为不懂得调和个体评价与挑战感知之间的平衡。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 动机与自律的双驱动机制 accDescr: 展示评价与感知如何影响能量释放，以及与自律方程式的对应关系。 subgraph Evaluation["认知驱动因素"] A["评价 Appraisal<br/>（个人的 Why 与相关性）"] B["感知 Perception<br/>（难度与挑战性）"] end subgraph Formula["Steven 的自律方程式"] C["自律 = 核心动力(Why) + 追求的回报 - 付出的成本"] end subgraph Outcome["生理与行为输出"] D["决定潜在动机上限"] E["驱动生理能量释放 (Energy Production)"] end A --> D B --> D Formula -.-> Evaluation D --> E ``` - **Steven 的自律方程式**：自律 = 核心动力的强度（Strength of one's Why） + 追求的回报（Reward of the pursuit） - 付出的代价（Cost of the pursuit）。 - **领导力洞察**：调动个人价值远比单纯强调集体目标更有效；当个体的内在动机与具有挑战性的任务对齐时，动机潜能的上限才会被真正激发。 --- ### [01:38:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=5919s) 打破下行螺旋：微小改变与两个低门槛习惯 人们的生活状态往往处于一种自我强化的螺旋中：良好的作息与行为释放充沛能量，带来积极情绪，促使人进一步做出健康行动，形成“上行螺旋”；反之，昼夜节律紊乱、低能量、情绪低落则会导致逃避与不良习惯，陷入恶性“下行螺旋”。如果一个人深陷下行泥潭，单靠听一期播客绝不可能扭转人生，唯有从做出一个微小的不同决定开始。 面对想要改变却无从下手的人，Kristen 提出了两个启动门槛极低、但能产生深远代谢与情绪连锁反应的基石习惯： 1. **固定作息与早晨光照**：每天在同一固定时间起床，并在醒来后尽快接受尽可能多的自然光照。这不仅能奠定一整天的生理节律基调，还能确保当晚在固定时间产生睡意。 2. **限制进食时间窗（限时进食）**：将一天的热量摄入严格控制在 10 小时的进食窗口内，并且在入睡前至少空出 2 到 3 小时的缓冲期，不再摄入任何热量。 这两个简单的物理锚点不仅能改善情绪和身体成分，还能从根本上稳定心血管与代谢机能，为大脑构建稳定的神经生理基础。 --- ### [01:41:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=6061s) 确立自我认同：用五大核心价值指导人生 除了生理节律的调整，Kristen 强调必须同步厘清内在认知——“你究竟想在这个世界上成为一个怎样的人？”当今世界充满了无穷无尽的信息轰炸与数字干扰，许多人从未训练过聚焦注意力的心理肌肉，也缺乏辨别真正重要事物的能力。 Kristen 分享了自己践行多年的个人管理系统：她从不依靠复杂的愿景板，而是使用极简的 Evernote 笔记，并在每季度重新审视一次自己的核心价值观。她的决策系统完全建立在五个核心价值之上： - **成长（Growth）** - **影响力（Impact）** - **包容（Tolerance）** - **同理心（Compassion）** - **专注当下（Presence）** 她通过阅读深度作者的作品来反复琢磨这些理念（例如阅读 James Baldwin 理解同理与包容，研读 Ayn Rand 思考影响力与成长）。在笔记中，她明确写下这些抽象价值在日常行动中到底长什么样、该如何练习落地。Kristen 甚至直言：“目标纯粹是胡扯（Goals are total BS）。”对她而言，连攻读博士学位都并非一个所谓的功利目标，而是为了践行自身核心价值观所自然延伸出的行动出口。 ### [01:43:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=6225s) 践行价值观与摆脱竞争心：打造可持续的卓越表现 克里斯汀·霍姆斯（Kristen Holmes）深入探讨了“践行个人价值观”与“追求孤立目标”之间的本质区别。她以自己攻读博士学位（PhD）为例解释道，读博本身并不是终极目的，而是为了让她能够践行“成长”与“影响力”这两大核心价值观。如果想要在大规模人群层面上改善人类健康，就必须具备学术公信力、掌握设计与开展严谨科学实验的能力，成为一名真正的科学家。许多人常常误入歧途，将目标设定为“跑完一次 10 公里”，但往往在跑完之后陷入茫然。克里斯汀则始终遵循价值观主导的原则：她的计分板（Scorecard）从不建立在“完成某项成就”之上，唯一的衡量标准是“我今天是否将自己的价值观践行到了极致”。 这种以价值观为核心的思维方式，直接改变了她过去在大学执教期间对竞争与团队建设的理解。克里斯汀透露，早在十五年前，她就彻底停止了“与他人竞争”。当她在普林斯顿大学（Princeton University）担任教练时，球队甚至不会列出对手的名字。她不希望队员根据本周的比赛对手去调整行为、训练质量或心理状态。在她看来，表现不稳定和团队失常的根源，往往就在于人们执着于某个任意设定的外部指标，或者把注意力完全放在“击败对手”或“成为某个人”上。真正的卓越需要日复一日以最高质量呈现自我，专注于学习、持续进步与内部标准；只要团队将行为与底层价值观深度对齐，胜利自然会随之而来。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 目标驱动与价值观驱动的表现模式对比 accDescr: 对比外部目标导向与价值观导向在行为、心理和长期表现上的差异 subgraph External["外部目标导向（脆弱模式）"] A["设定外部指标<br/>（如击败特定对手/跑完10公里）"] --> B["行为随外部对手而波动<br/>缺乏一致的训练质量"] B --> C["达成后陷入迷茫<br/>或因外部压力导致失常"] end subgraph Values["价值观驱动（稳定模式）"] D["锚定核心价值观<br/>（如持续成长与深远影响）"] --> E["搭建行为支撑体系<br/>日复一日保持高品质投入"] E --> F["可持续且可复现的卓越表现<br/>计分板：是否全心践行价值观"] end ``` - **读博的深层逻辑**：攻读博士不仅是获得学位，更是为了获取科学实验能力与学术公信力，从而在宏观尺度上改善公众健康。 - **普林斯顿执教哲学**：赛程表上不突出对手名字，彻底剔除外部干扰，确保训练态度与生活习惯不随对手强弱而动摇。 - **避免表现失常的根本**：放弃对外部任意指标或假想敌的执念，将衡量标准完全转回“自己是否在最高水准上践行了核心价值观”。 --- ### [01:46:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=6389s) 最终提问：找准你想成为的人，并为此搭建整个人生 节目进入《CEO日记》（The Diary Of A CEO）的传统收尾环节：由上一位未曾谋面的嘉宾为克里斯汀留下一道未知的难题。史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）翻开问题：“如果你只能留下最后一句话，你会说什么？”克里斯汀思索后给出了充满力量的回答：“弄清楚在这个世界上你到底想成为什么样的人，然后全力搭建你的生活体系，去成为那个人（Figure out who you want to be in the world, and then set up your life so you can be that person）。”这番话精准呼应了整场对话的核心——行为、作息、环境以及身心健康，都应当作为基础设施，服务于你最真实的自我实现。 史蒂文由衷表达了对克里斯汀的敬意与感谢。他动情地指出，克里斯汀不仅通过自己的智慧、叙事能力和内在驱动力，让 WHOOP 的理念生动呈现，更以其深厚的科学洞察指引了成千上万人的健康习惯。随着现代社会健康危机的加剧，这种能够连接尖端生理科学与大众日常行为的智慧，正成为人类社会不可或缺的重要服务。史蒂文感慨道，尽管克里斯汀已经在这项事业中深耕了数十年，但这依然只是一个伟大旅程的全新起点，未来她将持续影响数以亿计的生命。 - **前任嘉宾的留题**：“如果这是你能对世界说的最后一句话，你会说什么？” - **克里斯汀的终极建议**：先认清自己的存在形态与人生定位，再主动重构周遭的生活与行为环境，确保每一步都在支撑那个理想自我。 - **史蒂文的赞誉**：克里斯汀将深奥的生理科学转化为直观生活智慧的叙事能力，是对人类健康事业的长远奉献。 --- ### [01:48:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=6508s) 节目尾声与生活推荐 对话圆满落幕后，主持人史蒂文在尾声中分享了自己的生活习惯与日常补给方案。作为代餐品牌 Huel 的投资者与长期倡导者，他向听众介绍了自己专门整理的“Steven Bundle”精选套装。该组合包含他最钟爱的高蛋白黑金版海盐焦糖味粉剂（每桶 17 份），以及在日程极其紧凑繁忙时充当快速营养补给的即饮（Ready-to-drink）饮品；此外还囊括了代餐蛋白棒、特制摇摇杯以及一件深受朋友好评的定制修身 T 恤。最后，史蒂文邀请大家通过简介链接探索该组合，并推荐了频道内与本期健康科学主题高度相关的往期深度对谈。 ## Notable quotes > [04:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=240s) Sleep-wake timing is the mother of all performance optimization behaviors. — Kristen Holmes > [05:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=334s) In clinical settings, it is almost impossible to find a mental health disorder where circadian disruption is not present. — Kristen Holmes > [15:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=907s) Sleep regularity predicts all-cause mortality, independent of sleep duration. — Kristen Holmes > [17:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=1066s) Sleep has to be your number one priority. — Kristen Holmes > [01:00:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=3615s) Shift workers have an average life expectancy that is 15 years shorter. — Kristen Holmes > [01:10:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4219s) Sleep debt is never just an individual issue; it degrades the psychological safety of the people around you. — Kristen Holmes > [01:14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=4483s) Sleep is the most potent, natural performance enhancer available to human beings. — Kristen Holmes > [01:41:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=6061s) Goals are total BS. Focus on whether you lived your values to the fullest today. — Kristen Holmes > [01:46:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698&t=6389s) Figure out who you want to be in the world, and then set up your life so you can be that person. — Kristen Holmes ## Mentioned Kristen Holmes, Steven Bartlett, Matthew Walker, Andrew Phillips, Bryan Johnson, James Baldwin, Ayn Rand, Shawn Achor, WHOOP, Shopify, Huel, UK Biobank, Sleep Foundation, Foundation for Traffic Safety, Google, Project Aristotle, Princeton University, Evernote, YouTube ## Video description If you enjoy hearing about the transformative power of sleep, I recommend you check out my conversation with Dr Matthew Walker, which you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us8n8VBQn_c 00:00 Intro 02:13 Why do you do the work you do? 02:48 What your work is and involves 05:03 The Importance Of Sleep Wake Timing - circadian rhythm 10:16 Humans Haven't Adapted For Artificial Light 15:07 The Myths Around The Hours Of Sleep You Get 18:43 A Lack Of Sleep Is Hurting Muscle Growth 20:08 A Solid Sleeping Pattern Can Prevent Sickness 25:23 The Best Times To Eat For The Perfect Sleep 32:26 The Positive and Negative Effect Of Exercise On Our Sleep 34:09 The Importance Of Getting Sunlight When We Wake Up 36:32 Things To Do For A Perfect Night's Sleep 39:20 A Message For People That Aren’t Taking This Information Seriously 45:14 Growing Up With Addiction 51:54 What Alcohol Is REALLY Doing To Our Sleep 01:00:15 The Effects Of Coffee On Our Sleep 01:01:01 Shift Workers Have A Lower Life Expectancy 01:03:37 Mental Health 01:06:26 How To Reduce Stress In The Moment 01:07:54 Sleep Deprivation & How It Affects Our Actions 01:15:43 The Relationship Between Sex & Sleep 01:19:00 Ads 01:20:53 What Is HRV & Why Is It So Important? 01:30:01 Why The Relationship We Have With Ourselves Is So Important To Our Sleep - The Psychological Effects 01:32:21 The Importance Of A Growth Mindset & Positivity 01:35:39 What To Do If You Have A Motivation Problem 01:41:57 Writing Down Your Values 01:46:29 The Last Guest's Question Follow Kristen: Instagram: https://bit.ly/47oC8fh Get tickets to The Business & Life Speaking Tour: https://stevenbartlett.com/tour/ FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://x.com/StevenBartlett?s=20 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-bartlett-56986834/ Sponsors: Whoop: https://join.whoop.com/en-uk/CEO Shopify: http://shopify.com/bartlett Huel: https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hwlvkfp698)

[4:00] Kristen Holmes: Sleep-wake timing is the mother of all performance optimization behaviors. [5:34] Kristen Holmes: In clinical settings, it is almost impossible to find a mental health disorder where circadian disruption is not present. [15:07] Kristen Holmes: Sleep regularity predicts all-cause mortality, independent of sleep duration. [17:46] Kristen Holmes: Sleep has to be your number one priority. [60:15] Kristen Holmes: Shift workers have an average life expectancy that is 15 years shorter. [70:19] Kristen Holmes: Sleep debt is never just an individual issue; it degrades the psychological safety of the people around you. [74:43] Kristen Holmes: Sleep is the most potent, natural performance enhancer available to human beings. [101:01] Kristen Holmes: Goals are total BS. Focus on whether you lived your values to the fullest today. [106:29] Kristen Holmes: Figure out who you want to be in the world, and then set up your life so you can be that person.

[39:20] Kristen Holmes: I think when folks are struggling, they don't really know who they want to be in the world, and they don't maybe understand exactly what it is that they value. They're fuzzy about their desires... and you end up flinging yourself in all sorts of directions. Kristen Holmes: if you need alcohol to bond or to form a connection there's probably something else going on that is unaddressed. [106:29] Steven Bartlett: What is the last thing that you would say? [106:29] Kristen Holmes: Figure out who you want to be in the world, and then set up your life so you can be that person.

[0:00] what the research says is that people [0:01] who are having sex within a few hours [0:03] when they sleep have better markers of [0:05] sleep and recovery so does masturbation [0:08] not have the same implications well what [0:10] was so interesting about this research [0:12] is that Kristen Holmes is the vice [0:14] president of performance science at wo [0:16] who has access to health data from [0:17] hundreds of thousands of people and her [0:19] groundbreaking research will tell you [0:21] the secrets of achieving perfect health [0:23] and performance the key to your health [0:25] is your tradan Rhythm which are physical [0:27] mental and behavioral changes that [0:30] happen in a 24-hour cycle one of the [0:32] most known circadian rhythms is being [0:34] asleep during the night and it has [0:37] massive Health consequences for example [0:40] we know their shift workers on average [0:41] are going to die 15 years sooner but if [0:44] you're awake for 2 hours between 10: [0:46] p.m. and 4:00 a.m. 2 days per week for [0:48] 25 days of the year you qualify as a [0:52] shift worker you are putting yourself at [0:54] increased risk for cancer cardiovascular [0:57] disease mental health issues you can [0:58] have trouble having children I mean [1:00] that's terrifying we know that we [1:02] haven't adapted to Blue Light the light [1:04] we get from screens yes if you're [1:06] viewing light between the hours of 10 [1:07] p.m. and 4:00 a.m. it actually has a pro [1:10] depressive effect it this goes on and on [1:12] and a lot of people are like I have to [1:13] go to bed at 1:00 a.m. because I'm a [1:14] night owl total BS you're making a [1:17] choice and if you want to perform [1:18] consistently increase your tolerance for [1:20] stress and take control of your life you [1:23] need to we want to eat and most [1:26] importantly we need [1:28] to quick one this is really really [1:31] fascinating to me on the back end of our [1:33] YouTube channel it says that [1:35] 69.9% of you that watch this channel [1:37] frequently over the lifetime of this [1:39] channel haven't yet hit the Subscribe [1:41] button I just wanted to ask you a favor [1:43] it helps this channel so much if you [1:45] choose to subscribe helps us scale the [1:47] guest helps us scale the production and [1:49] it makes this show bigger so if I could [1:50] ask you for one favor if you've watched [1:52] the show before and you've enjoyed it [1:53] and you like this episode that you're [1:54] currently watching could you please hit [1:56] the Subscribe button thank you so much [1:58] and I will repay that gesture by making [2:01] sure that everything we do here gets [2:02] better and better and better and better [2:03] that is a promise I'm willing to make [2:05] you do we have a [2:06] [Music] [2:12] deal [2:14] Kristen why do you do the work that you [2:17] do I am uh irrationally passionate about [2:22] human flourishing and the Frameworks [2:26] policies basically determinants of of [2:28] human flourishing and um yeah I've kind [2:31] of dedicated my life [2:32] to understanding um how the physiology [2:36] and and psychology work together to help [2:40] people take control of their health um [2:42] so they can understand how to apply [2:45] their energy and and attention in a way [2:47] that's truly rewarding what is your job [2:49] title I'm the vice president of [2:50] performance science principal scientist [2:53] at uh whoop which is a technology a [2:55] physiological monitoring technology [2:57] company and what does that mean so I'm [2:59] trying to make sure uh whoop is a [3:02] thought leader in human performance so [3:03] trying to see around the bend to [3:06] understand you know what's going to be [3:07] important for tomorrow in terms of [3:10] understanding uh how we can take control [3:13] of the directory of our health you know [3:14] what are the markers that are important [3:15] that we need to be tracking um what are [3:17] the behaviors that we need to be [3:18] engaging in in order to move those [3:21] metrics around in a way that is Health [3:23] promoting I look at a lot of the high [3:25] stakes high stress environments so [3:27] professional athletes um Frontline [3:29] Healthcare CL Ians um and uh you know [3:33] military operators so kind of [3:35] understanding some of these extreme [3:38] professions and and crafts and and what [3:40] the physiology and the psychology looks [3:42] like we can then kind of abstract and [3:45] and and I think in some ways generalize [3:49] what that means for the regular [3:51] population um who are experiencing less [3:53] extreme demands on on their time and [3:55] their energy and and their cognitive [3:57] bandwidth and you conduct um your own [4:00] studies yes yeah so I'm a principal [4:03] investigator on um on many studies um [4:06] which means that I'm kind of leading [4:08] those experiments from kind of A to Z [4:09] and I have a team that is you know kind [4:12] of supporting that research um and from [4:15] various aspects of of expertise um but [4:17] yeah I mean one of the studies that we [4:19] published in in May was looking at uh a [4:21] thousand paratroopers in Army Alaska so [4:23] super extreme you know environment you [4:25] know harsh but the the Army came to us [4:29] they were you know if if you you know [4:32] Alaska in general has a very high [4:33] suicide rate um this base in elor Alaska [4:37] has a lot of mental health issues a lot [4:40] of suicide and um they're trying to [4:42] understand you know what is actually [4:43] going on here and we were able to run a [4:46] study where we showed that there's [4:48] actually one [4:49] Behavior one behavior that was surfaced [4:52] that was the most predictive of positive [4:56] psychological functioning in these um in [4:58] these soldiers and that one Behavior was [5:00] sleep wake [5:02] timing so the more consistent and more [5:05] stable the sleep wake the Sleep onset [5:08] and offset of these soldiers um the [5:11] higher levels of positive psychological [5:14] functioning so work place resilience um [5:18] uh less homesickness more feelings of [5:20] control more positive social networks it [5:24] bubbles up in every single piece of of [5:26] research that we do at whoop sleep wake [5:29] timing I think is the mother of all [5:31] performance optimization behaviors sleep [5:34] wake timing so is this the same thing as [5:37] your Cadian Rhythm or yeah so this is [5:39] one of the most I think when we think [5:41] about circadian rhythms which is just [5:42] physical mental and behavioral changes [5:45] that happen in a 24-hour cycle um and [5:48] your biological clock is kind of [5:51] orchestrating these rhythms right and [5:54] okay so I'm going to have to pause and [5:55] take this right back to Monkey level [5:57] stuff yeah what is a Arcadian Rhythm as [6:00] if you're expending it to a 10-year-old [6:02] yeah so it's basically physical mental [6:05] and behavioral [6:07] changes that happen over a 24-hour cycle [6:12] okay so here's my read on it and correct [6:14] me if I'm [6:16] wrong there's a clock in my head yes the [6:22] the the supermatic nucleus yeah is a is [6:26] the Master Clock okay which is somewhere [6:28] in my body it's in the it's in the [6:30] hypothalamus so it's in my brain and [6:32] this clock regulates every cell in my [6:34] body cell tissue organ okay and it [6:40] releases it controls the release of a [6:42] chemical which makes those cells organs [6:45] every part of my body do stuff yeah so [6:48] it is your hypothalamus so the superism [6:51] nucleus it responds to light and it [6:54] responds to Darkness okay okay so that's [6:57] like the most pronounced entrainment cue [7:01] for this master clock and it then tells [7:04] it sends signals to every cell tissue in [7:06] your body as to what it needs to be [7:08] doing in the presence of light in the [7:10] presence of darkness and when we are [7:13] viewing light at a phase of the natural [7:17] light dark cycle that is if I am awake [7:21] when I should be sleeping or I am [7:23] sleeping when I should be awake when my [7:25] body anticipates that it causes huge [7:28] amounts of stress in the system if we do [7:31] this once or twice not a big deal but if [7:34] we're doing this [7:36] chronically okay it has massive Health [7:41] consequences you know cancer um [7:44] metabolic disease um you know [7:46] cardiovascular disease 100% of mental [7:50] health issues there will be some level [7:53] of circadian disruption okay so when [7:56] this inform this light information comes [7:58] in [8:00] and tells these clocks to what to do if [8:03] I am going outside of my natural [8:05] biological [8:07] preferences that is circadian [8:09] disruption and if and if you think about [8:13] how many folks are walking around [8:15] circadian disruption it is mind-blowing [8:18] I mean basically the the kind of the [8:21] definition that's been thrown out there [8:22] is if you are awake from the hours of 10 [8:27] p.m. to 4 a.m. if you're awake for 2 [8:30] hours between 10: p.m. and 4:00 a.m. for [8:35] 2 days per week for 25 days of the year [8:40] you qualify as a kind of card carrying [8:44] shift worker and you likely have [8:48] significant circadian disruption which [8:50] means that I have you are at risk for [8:53] some of the and it you know it's not [8:55] going to happen tomorrow but if you [8:57] continue on that pattern that I just [8:58] described red you are putting yourself [9:01] at increased risk [9:03] for cancer and cardiovascular disease [9:06] metabolis dysfunction um you know you [9:09] can have trouble having children it [9:11] impacts fertility mental health [9:14] psychiatric disorders there isn't [9:15] disease or disorder that circadian [9:17] disruption doesn't [9:19] touch so a way of thinking about this um [9:22] so that I and everyone else can [9:24] understand is there's this master clock [9:25] in our um hypothalamus look at me um [9:29] hypothalamus and this Master Clock [9:31] regulates all of the other clocks [9:32] throughout our entire body and there's [9:34] millions of them right basically yes and [9:36] the thing that's the Master Clock is [9:38] using as a signal the clock in our brain [9:41] is light and darkness that's its most [9:44] reliable yes that's the signal it cares [9:47] about it listens to the most but there's [9:48] other signals as well and if that Master [9:51] Clock if so if I'm if I'm up at 4:00 [9:53] a.m. and I'm looking at a a light at [9:56] 4:00 a.m. that Master Clock is going to [9:58] start firing off chemicals to all the [9:59] other clocks um and then all the clocks [10:02] are going to be out of sync because then [10:03] when I wake up it's light and then you [10:05] know you're confusing I'm confusing my [10:07] body and it's firing off in all kinds of [10:08] different ways so I need to form an [10:10] alignment which means basically sleeping [10:13] at the right time exposing myself to [10:15] Darkness at the right time etc etc your [10:17] body loves regularity and and that's and [10:19] the problem is modity is not set up for [10:22] that you know we have access you know I [10:24] think all the Circadian research um [10:26] unfortunately was done after the Advent [10:29] of electri electricity so so we're kind [10:32] of fighting you know this access to [10:36] constant light um and you know we're [10:39] starting to see the the I think dilar [10:43] effects or the the negative consequences [10:45] of exposure to light really after the [10:49] sun goes down we haven't adapted to blue [10:52] light after dark right after the sun [10:55] goes down we have not adapted to blue [10:56] light blue light being the light we get [10:58] from screens yes there was a study that [11:01] looked at the timing of light and its [11:03] impact on um mood and and brain circuit [11:07] circuits and they saw that if you're [11:09] viewing light between the hours of again [11:12] this is kind of this magic window of [11:13] time 10 p.m. and 4: a.m. it actually has [11:16] a pro depressive [11:18] effect so it impacts your dopamine [11:20] system reward motivation right so when [11:24] we wonder you know oh why are why what [11:26] is this Mental Health crisis I mean we [11:29] have to look at light first and I and I [11:32] just don't know and and I think what's [11:34] hard about the discussion and hard about [11:36] this behavior is [11:37] that you know it it's really hard for [11:41] people to not engage with their phones [11:45] you know before bed um that has its own [11:47] addictive properties right but we just [11:49] have to understand that these our our [11:51] relationship to light will directly [11:54] influence the trajectory of our health [11:57] there's just no question about that [11:59] to understand this from a more sort of [12:01] prehistoric ancestoral lens if we go [12:05] back I don't know tens of thousands of [12:07] years to how maybe some of our ancestors [12:10] used to live they would have food at [12:13] certain times and they would have light [12:15] exposure at certain times they didn't [12:16] have artificial light right they had [12:17] invented that yet the modern world is [12:19] very much the antithesis of that it is [12:21] we have food whenever we want it we can [12:23] order I can order a cookie at 3:00 a.m. [12:25] if I want to eat cookie at 3 a.m. and I [12:27] can watch YouTube video the D CEO for [12:30] example like And subscribe at any hour [12:32] of the day um so is this kind of like a [12:36] misalignment issue with our the way our [12:38] body was designed by nature and the [12:41] world we now live in yeah we have not [12:42] evolved to to to digest food in the [12:46] middle of the night or or to view light [12:48] in the middle of the night um or to be [12:50] super active in the middle of the night [12:52] which just happen and it does it creates [12:54] this it creates this misalignment and [12:57] you know I think what's interesting if [12:58] we are to kind of look at individuals [13:01] you know or societies currently that [13:03] don't have [13:04] electricity it's it's really interesting [13:07] to to I think see some of their [13:10] behaviors some of their sleep wake [13:12] behaviors and this is fascinating there [13:14] is a study done looking at um kind of a [13:17] hunter gatherer type of society who [13:19] don't have access to any electricity and [13:21] when you observe their sleep wake times [13:22] they all fall asleep within 15 to 30 [13:24] minutes of each other and they all wake [13:26] up between 15 and 30 minutes of each [13:28] other so this whole notion of [13:30] chronotypes is like kind of like total [13:32] BS It's like because I think that's you [13:35] know I think that's the reason a lot of [13:37] people are like oh I I I have to go to [13:39] bed at 1: a.m. because I'm a night owl [13:41] no you're you're making a choice [13:43] generally speaking now this is in [13:45] healthy populations not people who have [13:46] circadian you know disorders and and [13:48] things like that um generally speaking [13:51] like if you were to throw everyone in [13:53] this building on a mountain in Colorado [13:55] and this experiment has actually been [13:56] done with no electricity we will [13:58] literally all fall asleep within 30 [14:00] minutes of each other after 48 Hours [14:02] like that is how powerful these light [14:05] dark signals are to our body and I I [14:09] think that just those two examples are [14:11] really compelling in that you know we're [14:14] we have evolved to kind of wake up and [14:16] fall asleep in relation to This Light [14:19] Dark cycle so what are this stuff we say [14:20] to ourselves because I say that to [14:21] myself all the time I told I've told [14:23] myself I'm a nightow yeah and I've given [14:25] myself the whole chronotype Spiel yeah [14:28] that's be [14:29] yeah in my opinion the way I interpret [14:31] the [14:32] literature it it seems that you know the [14:35] the variability that I think is talked [14:37] about or how we think about it in as a [14:39] as a society in terms of there's [14:41] chronotypes that are you know very you [14:43] know you're you fall asleep you want to [14:46] you you're genetically predisposed to [14:48] fall asleep at 1:00 am and I'm [14:49] genetically predisposed to to fall [14:51] asleep at 9:00 P p.m. yeah I I don't [14:53] think it's that kind of variability I [14:54] think the variability maybe is an hour [14:56] at the most maybe an hour and a half [14:58] obviously it's age related as well um [15:00] but for the most part I don't I don't [15:02] think this variability is is as [15:03] pronounced as as as what um what we say [15:06] it is sleep yeah so conventional wisdom [15:10] says it's all about how many hours you [15:12] spend [15:14] sleeping we already this has already [15:16] been shown to be not true sleep [15:20] duration is is important right we can [15:23] put a pin in that um but sleep [15:25] regularity predicts all cause mortality [15:28] and this is just recently published [15:30] actually um not by my team but um [15:33] looking at it was actually UK uh uh [15:37] biobank 60,000 people 10 million sleeps [15:41] objective measure of sleep and they [15:44] found that sleep regularity predicted uh [15:47] mortality and independent of sleep [15:49] duration so it it's not to say that [15:52] sleep duration doesn't matter but that [15:54] is absolutely incomplete advice how much [15:56] time you spend in bed does doesn't [15:59] necessarily predict how long you live it [16:01] is the degree to which you stabilize [16:03] when you go to bed and when you wake up [16:04] that predicts mortality what did they [16:06] find what what was the conclusion of [16:08] that was there a sort of a percentage [16:10] variance in those that have irregular [16:11] and regular sleep yeah so the Sleep [16:13] onset offset times I'm I'm not sure but [16:16] actually this is research that my team [16:17] is doing and that we have not published [16:20] yet so this is preliminary data but we [16:22] are we're actually able to determine [16:25] down to the [16:27] minute what is a tolerable level of [16:31] variability so for the most elite [16:33] athletes on the planet the [16:36] 0.001% 18 to 23 year olds we know that [16:41] um 70 minutes of onset offset [16:45] variability at 70 minutes we will see a [16:49] sharp decline in markers of recovery [16:52] heartly variability resting heart rate [16:55] which is a indicator of how you will [16:58] adapt to load the next day to stress the [17:01] next day to stress the next day so life [17:03] load so sleep awake time is really [17:06] important and we're we're we're doing [17:07] research across across every age bucket [17:09] and and but you can imagine that if [17:12] these are the most robust humans on the [17:14] planet and they have 70 minutes of of [17:18] variability that is tolerable within [17:21] that population some are a little bit [17:24] sooner um in terms of the or uh can deal [17:27] with less variability others can deal [17:28] with slightly more variability but the [17:30] mean is 70 70 minutes so you can imagine [17:34] for individuals who are more vulnerable [17:36] who have less are less robust physically [17:39] mentally emotionally their tolerable [17:42] level is going to be much [17:44] narrower what's going on inside of the [17:46] body when we increase the variability or [17:50] that we don't have a regular sleep and a [17:53] regular wake up time what's actually [17:55] going on from like a chemical [17:56] physiological perspective yeah so one of [17:58] the things that's suppressed is [18:01] melatonin [18:03] and circulating reductions in [18:05] circulating melatonin have been shown to [18:08] be linked to every disorder and [18:11] disease in the [18:13] body every disorder and disease in the [18:17] body when we have suppressed or reduced [18:19] circulating melatonin that is going to [18:22] impact us on every level and make us [18:25] more vulnerable to disease and and [18:26] disorders so that is probably one of the [18:30] most important thing when we have super [18:32] unstable sleep awake time we are going [18:34] to uh have cell suppressed melatonin [18:37] production um which leads to [18:39] inflammation in the body it's melatonin [18:41] I think is is one of the big players in [18:43] the story growth hormones yes yes and uh [18:48] typically you know if you're not going [18:50] to sleep uh if you're going to sleep [18:52] late you will not release a human growth [18:55] hormone um as uh you'll get less of a [18:57] Bolis of of release and why does that [19:00] matter that's when all the physical [19:02] restoration happens so all the [19:04] Regeneration physically so for bypassing [19:06] that we're basically all the work that [19:08] we did in the gym or you know everything [19:10] that we did during the day um we're just [19:12] not going to recover um from that in in [19:14] the same way that we would if we were [19:15] getting that sleep is growth hormone [19:17] essentially the thing that causes our [19:19] sort of muscles to grow and repair [19:20] essentially so I sometimes think this [19:22] because I think if I'm sometimes in my [19:25] life because I'm quite busy I have to [19:26] make the decision whether to go to the [19:28] gym or get a great night's sleep yeah [19:31] and the more I've learned about growth [19:32] hormone in the body and whoop and all [19:34] those things I've started to make the [19:36] decision towards sleep versus going to [19:38] the gym because my brain now goes well [19:40] you're not going to get the recovery and [19:42] sort of restoration anyway benefits yeah [19:44] the benefits of going to the gym if [19:46] you're poorly slept that night yep I [19:48] think if it's um if you're consistently [19:51] getting you know decent sleep and [19:53] consistently getting you know going to [19:55] bed and wake up some more times um you [19:58] know I would say it's okay to prioritize [20:00] exercise sometimes um but sleep is is [20:04] very important um and is probably the [20:07] thing that needs to be prioritized [20:09] first how consistent are you with your [20:11] sleep I'm very consistent I heard that [20:14] in 2017 you started trying to sleep [20:17] within sort of 25 to 30 [20:19] minutes um every single day y the same [20:22] sleeping window that's right yeah and [20:24] yeah it was a it was a paper that came [20:26] out uh by Andrew Phillips actually in in [20:28] the summer of 2017 and it basically was [20:31] a four-year study um that was conducted [20:34] at Harvard University looking at [20:36] students and they were basically [20:37] students sleep and they're trying to see [20:39] okay you know what aspect of of sleep is [20:42] is predictive of things like GPA and um [20:44] other uh you know measures of of kind of [20:47] uh flourishing and uh what they found is [20:51] that basically sleep weight time [20:52] predicted [20:54] GPA what's GPA for people oh sorry grade [20:57] point average yes so it's the difference [20:58] you know they more regular you know it's [21:00] the difference between getting an A and [21:01] A B um by just stabilizing sleep awake [21:03] time and so at that time I was working [21:07] with you know tons of Collegiate [21:09] athletes so nc2a athletes professional [21:11] athletes so eppl um you know NBA NFL [21:16] MLB you name it like the biggest high [21:19] performers like in the world and and I [21:23] started tracking this you know just [21:24] manually at the time at whoop we didn't [21:26] actually track this uh this wasn't [21:29] automated I had to like you know kind of [21:31] do this in Excel and then sure enough [21:33] you know sleep wake time started [21:35] predicting all these performance metrics [21:37] that people care about and um we started [21:39] rolling in some subjective measures um [21:42] we had internal load we had external [21:43] load of course so all the objective [21:45] measures but I started rolling in some [21:46] subjective measures and sure enough [21:49] sleep awake time just continued to to to [21:51] ladder up to all these performance [21:53] variables that people care about so I [21:55] started of course you know because I [21:57] have access to all these these data I [21:59] start I'm like I need to I need to [22:01] like start stabilizing my sleep wake [22:02] time and sure enough summer 2017 I just [22:05] like that's basically like my [22:07] non-negotiable and yeah I mean I I [22:09] haven't I haven't been sick since [22:13] 2017 I had a little tiny head cold that [22:16] lasted 48 hours but since then I [22:19] literally have not had a sniffle a [22:22] stomach ache I didn't get covid like I [22:26] literally have not been sick and you [22:28] know there I do a lot of other things [22:31] well but that has been the single [22:33] biggest change just sleeping and waking [22:36] up at the same time that's it what is [22:38] your routine there how do you ensure [22:39] that happens because yeah so the the key [22:42] to that is stabilizing when I wake up so [22:44] even when I travel and I do travel and I [22:46] I travel internationally I travel to the [22:47] West Coast um I try to maintain my home [22:50] time zone as much as I can as long as I [22:52] can fulfill my business commitments and [22:54] and social you know there might be a [22:55] social element as well but for the most [22:58] part um I stabilize when I wake up so I [23:01] keep that consistent even if I can't go [23:04] to bed at the same time I ensure that I [23:07] wake up at the same time and that [23:09] basically sets my circadian rhythm so I [23:11] will then feel sleepy at the right time [23:14] and I can kind of keep that virtuous [23:15] cycle going if I um have short sleep I [23:20] just basically try to build in a nap [23:22] prior to 1:30 for 30 minutes to an hour [23:26] so I don't accumulate sleep debt is [23:28] another thing that we can talk about [23:29] sleep DT is wild in some of its [23:31] correlations like psychological safety [23:33] and executive function and um but but [23:36] yeah so I kind of that's how I manage [23:38] short sleep um but I I always try to [23:40] wake up at the same time so I'm getting [23:41] that Bolis of light at the same time [23:43] every single day and what time do you [23:44] wake up and go to sleep so I go to bed [23:47] um around I kind of get into bed usually [23:51] around [23:52] 9915 9:30 I read for a half an hour 45 [23:57] minutes [23:58] a book um printed page dim light um and [24:02] then I fall asleep usually around 10 and [24:04] then I wake up um like at 6 uh 14 no I'm [24:08] just kidding like around six around 6 [24:10] you know whenever I talk about these [24:12] subjects the rebuttal I get is one you [24:15] might be able to predict it's from a [24:17] group of people that I can't yet relate [24:20] to yeah do you know who I'm talking [24:22] about um parents oh yeah yeah well [24:26] I've had I have two kids so I totally [24:28] understand the whole parenting thing so [24:30] yeah I mean there's no question there [24:31] are going to be times in your life where [24:33] you're literally a shift worker because [24:34] you're caring for a sick parent or a [24:37] sick child or you just literally have [24:39] kids and they're young um you're a shift [24:42] worker I mean there there are things um [24:44] you're making decisions to go out and [24:47] and and socialize in in times that maybe [24:50] maybe aren't optimal for kind of human [24:52] functioning but yes there's there's no [24:53] question that there are periods in your [24:55] life where it's going to be harder um [24:57] that said there are some things that you [24:59] can do to mitigate some of the negative [25:02] effects of both Direction and timing and [25:06] one of those those things is um is [25:08] dialing in your feeding window which is [25:10] another kind of circadian Behavior so [25:12] the timing of when you eat is is pretty [25:15] important um and can at least check some [25:18] of the boxes in terms of its impact on [25:21] uh metabolic functioning and and her [25:23] health and things like that so let's [25:24] talk about that then meal timing mhm [25:28] what is the what do I need to know about [25:30] when I should be eating what I should be [25:31] eating um and the implications that has [25:33] on yeah my circadian rhythm my body [25:35] yeah so it's it's in the [25:37] literature there's time restricted [25:39] eating and there's time restricted [25:40] feeding um and time restricted feeding [25:42] generally if you're reading the [25:43] literature is going to refer to Mouse [25:45] models time to eating will refer to [25:47] human uh studies Mouse models being [25:50] studies they yes sorry um yeah mice the [25:53] studies done with with mice are just [25:55] time restricted feeding and and [25:58] uh humans would be time restrict to [25:59] eating and not to confuse this with [26:01] intermittent fasting which I know is a [26:04] Hot Topic and people love talking about [26:05] it um Tim restricted eating basically [26:08] has a cading component so it's really [26:10] about the timing of when you're eating [26:11] your food in relation to the light dark [26:13] cycle intermittent fasting is basically [26:15] just reducing calories and so tempting [26:17] does not have a calorie um uh component [26:22] to it it's more about the the timing and [26:25] there's been some a lot of interesting [26:27] studies um that have been done that show [26:30] if you eat you know within uh you know [26:33] kind of 8 to 12h hour window uh you will [26:37] have uh much better metabolic outcomes [26:41] and this is pretty this is well [26:42] established um and I and if we see in [26:45] the whoop data that if you're um if you [26:47] stop eating three hours prior to when [26:51] you sleep to when you fall asleep [26:54] markers of sleep and Recovery are are uh [26:59] exponentially better um so timing of [27:02] meals really really does matter and [27:04] there's no question that uh and we we [27:08] know this from from other research [27:09] you're more primed to metabolize food um [27:13] closer to when you wake up in the [27:14] morning so earlier in the day you're [27:17] going to be much more primed to utilize [27:20] the the nutrients that you're um that [27:22] you've digested so does that mean we [27:24] should be eating we should have sort of [27:27] an earlier EA window yes yes you know [27:29] Brian Johnson of course yeah I know he [27:31] stops eating at 11:00 a.m. which is [27:32] crazy so which is insane and not super [27:34] practical but I think if you can stop [27:36] eating around when the sun sets you'll [27:40] position yourself to improve your [27:42] metabolic health and I and I would go so [27:43] far to say that you know regardless of [27:46] what it is you're eating because a lot [27:47] of folks cannot afford to you know eat [27:51] high quality food that's just a reality [27:53] and a lot of those folks do suffer from [27:55] you know at higher rates of C CIO [27:58] metabolic dysfunction but if if we can [28:01] just consolidate our eating window to 8 [28:03] to 10 hours we get ourselves like 60% of [28:07] the way to our our kind of metabolic [28:09] goals again it's not to say that content [28:12] and quality does not matter it [28:13] absolutely does but if we aren't going [28:17] to if if we if we can't focus on that [28:20] for whatever it might be consolidating [28:23] our eating window so eating every single [28:25] one of our calories between you know an [28:27] 8 to 12 hour window we will improve our [28:31] health and what's your eating window so [28:34] I do about 10 hours okay yeah so I I [28:37] definitely I pretty much don't eat after [28:39] the sun goes down when you say the sun [28:41] goes down sun sets yeah is that like [28:44] 5:00 p.m. I mean now it's early yeah so [28:47] I give myself like an hour window yeah [28:49] like four right now it's it's definitely [28:51] early but um but for the most part I can [28:54] kind of get away with it based on my [28:56] lifestyle so ideally between sort of 7: [28:58] a.m. and 4 p.m. and then to make sure [29:02] you're not eating you know two to three [29:04] hours before you fall asleep yes that's [29:06] the big key I think um is is you want a [29:09] nice big buffer [29:12] between uh yeah when you when you have [29:14] your L calorie and and when you go to [29:16] sleep because [29:17] that they're both so digestion is a [29:21] parasympathetic activity what does that [29:24] right so that means so your autonomic [29:26] nervous system has two brand is your [29:27] parasynthetic and and your sympathetic [29:29] your parasynthetic is your rest and [29:31] digest right um we also want to be in a [29:34] parasynthetic state when we're sleeping [29:36] so when we are digesting food we're [29:40] basically kind of confusing our system [29:42] in terms of where it should apply its [29:44] resources right so it basically diverts [29:46] resources away from you know the sleep [29:48] and the restoration and and that's what [29:50] you know if you have a big meal you'll [29:51] notice your heart rate is really is a [29:53] lot higher right and your stress score [29:55] is higher right some of the features on [29:57] on the whoop app and when you are not [29:59] having to digest you'll see your stress [30:00] score is lower you'll see your heart [30:02] your your heart rate is lower your heart [30:04] rate variability would be higher in [30:06] those situations we want to make sure [30:08] that when we're sleeping we are not [30:10] diverting any resources away from sleep [30:13] I mean alcohol is another one right like [30:14] you just to metabolize alcohol you're [30:16] diverting all you know significant [30:18] resources away from the Regeneration and [30:20] the recovery that needs to happen during [30:22] sleep um by bouncing you out of deeper [30:24] stages of sleep so same sort of effect [30:27] happens with food and we see this you [30:29] know at population levels on the app [30:31] it's just very apparent that meal timing [30:34] and alcohol are are really the two [30:36] biggest disruptors to a good night's [30:38] sleep so interesting because I've always [30:39] wondered there was a time in my life [30:41] where I routinely ate super late at [30:43] night because I would work very very [30:45] hard during the day I would basically [30:47] forget to eat I'd get home [30:50] maybe 9 or 10 at night I would then [30:53] order the food yeah at 9 or 10 which [30:56] means it comes at 11 12 and then I'd eat [30:59] at 11 or 12 yeah it's very stressful for [31:02] your system yeah tell me about it the [31:04] interesting thing that I started to [31:06] notice was when when I did that I woke [31:08] up feeling like I hadn't slept yeah and [31:11] I've always wondered why so I arrived at [31:13] this own sort of self self constructed [31:16] conclusion that if I put food into my [31:19] body at midnight it basically keeps my [31:22] body on for a couple of hours yeah [31:23] that's exactly right that's a perfect [31:24] way to describe it I would see the the [31:27] exactly that in the loop data which is I [31:30] would see that my heart rate went up to [31:32] about 70 beats per minute for the first [31:34] 3 hours it was almost like my body was [31:36] was still walking around or something [31:37] still and then 3 or 4 hours in it would [31:39] start to fall again back to I don't know [31:41] 45 the food yeah and we know you know [31:44] there's there's a really nice study that [31:46] looked at basically everyone is eating [31:48] the exact same meals and they're [31:50] relatively the same age like it was a [31:52] really beautiful design um and they [31:55] basically looked at folks who are eating [31:56] after after 3 p.m. and folks who are [31:58] eating before 3 p.m. and the folks who [32:01] ate a bulk of their calories before 3 [32:04] p.m. had um significantly better [32:07] metabolic outcomes and lost more weight [32:10] um so again there's no calorie [32:12] restriction component here you know [32:14] they're all kind of eating similar diet [32:16] similar macronutrient distribution [32:19] similar calorie content and um and it's [32:22] the folks who were eating bulk calories [32:24] prior to 3 P.M who had the best outcomes [32:26] exercise [32:27] one of the issues that I have sometimes [32:29] in my life today is one of those days [32:31] where because I was up very early this [32:33] morning it meant that I didn't go to the [32:35] gym this morning which means I'm [32:37] probably going to get home after being [32:39] in the studio being at the office today [32:41] at maybe 78 p.m. and I'm super hungry [32:45] then usually right and I also need to [32:47] work out so sometimes what happens is I [32:50] choose to work out first and then [32:51] obviously it makes the meal late at [32:52] night but there's also days in my life [32:55] where I end up working out and I'm known [32:56] for this at like 11: or 12: p.m. at [32:58] night wow [33:01] and there was this old train of thought [33:04] that that was a good thing to do because [33:06] people would say oh you're going to be [33:07] tired when you get in bed but that's [33:09] doesn't seem to be what happens yeah [33:11] does it do you feel more energized I [33:13] feel more energized yeah well not [33:15] surprising right you know adrenaline [33:17] cortisol like all of the kind of [33:19] hormones and chemicals that you need to [33:22] kind of get to a place where you can [33:24] exert that energy are are kind of [33:27] flowing through the system and it takes [33:29] time for them to go back to to normal [33:31] levels so to kind of get back to [33:32] homeostasis is going to take some time [33:34] and and so yeah I mean it would make [33:36] sense that you're um you know kind of [33:39] activated um after exercise so for some [33:44] folks there is a lot of individual [33:46] variability I think with exercise timing [33:48] some people are impacted more but I [33:50] honestly think that it has more to do [33:52] with the light you know usually if we're [33:54] in a gym it's generally well lit right [33:57] you're not in a dark gym so you're [34:00] getting exposure to um to light which is [34:03] going to make you feel like more [34:05] activated and it's again telling your [34:07] body that it's time to be awake and [34:09] alert on that point of light there's a [34:12] school of thought that says you should [34:14] look at lights when you wake up in the [34:16] morning my my partner always gets up in [34:18] the morning walks out into the balcony [34:19] and sits out there for 10 or 20 minutes [34:20] in morning I love that yes I love to [34:22] hear that yeah she's the best so [34:24] annoying she gets everything right oh I [34:27] love it um yeah but but for sure that [34:29] you want to get Light Within you know [34:31] 100,000 lucks is is pretty much what you [34:34] want to get within you know 5 to 20 [34:36] minutes of waking up to tell your body [34:39] like it's time to go 100,000 more oh Lux [34:42] so just like Photon energy so pretty [34:45] much if you're outside for five to to 20 [34:49] minutes it sounds like your girlfriend [34:50] is like nailing this protocol you'll get [34:53] all of the photon energy that you need [34:55] to tell your system that it is time to [34:57] be awake can't you just go look into a [34:59] lamp or something um it will just take [35:01] longer because it doesn't have the same [35:03] light intensity but if you're waking up [35:05] you know prior to when the sun gets up [35:08] yeah Turn All the Lights you know you [35:09] want to try to mimic day as much as [35:11] possible and then once the sun does come [35:12] up it's good to get outside and before [35:14] you get in bed you referenced that you [35:16] read books versus being on an iPad or [35:19] screens Etc [35:22] um does the same philosophy and [35:25] principle apply to light exposure before [35:27] sleep as to food exposure before sleep [35:31] oh no question right absolutely um we [35:33] want to try to restrict light basically [35:35] after the sun goes down we want to dim [35:38] our home environment to the degree that [35:39] we can um we want to try to minimize all [35:43] artificial light in the lead up to bed [35:45] all artificial light yes yeah you want [35:48] to make it as dim as possible so you [35:50] know they're a lot of night like blue [35:51] light blocking glasses the filters that [35:53] you can put on your iPad and your phone [35:55] activate all of those um but but again [35:58] like we don't we want to protect our [36:00] melatone release right and for all the [36:03] reasons I kind of have explained when we [36:05] don't have it is linked to every disease [36:08] and disorder right so we we know this so [36:11] we want to protect our melatonin release [36:13] and the only way we can Rel [36:14] melatonin is by Darkness we we need to [36:19] be exposed to to Darkness in order for [36:22] that Master Clock in our brain to know [36:24] that it's time to go to sleep um and [36:27] again be able to tell our body our [36:29] tissues and organs and cells and our and [36:31] our body what it needs to do at that [36:32] moment when I was at the [36:34] headquarters in Boston um not so long [36:36] ago I saw them working on sleep masks [36:39] and I think I've always been quite [36:41] dubious about sleep masks you know you [36:42] get on those planes and they hand you a [36:44] sleep mask in the little bag I always [36:45] what a bunch of weirdos you know like [36:47] putting that strapping that thing to [36:48] your face how embarrassing I'm one of [36:51] those weirdos now yeah I mean it's hard [36:54] even the Little Dot on your you know [36:56] from your alarm clock or your TV is [36:59] going to emit enough light we're so [37:02] sensitive to [37:04] light artificial light so natural light [37:07] like the moon totally fine but any other [37:10] type of light is really going to impair [37:12] our ability to get into these deeper [37:14] stages of sleep where all the restor [37:15] restoration and regeneration happens do [37:18] you use a sleep mask I do yes what's [37:21] your sort of routine there um yeah just [37:24] when I start to feel sleepy I just put [37:26] it on and go to bed do you listen to [37:29] anything when you go to sleep no I don't [37:32] is there are you aware of any research [37:34] that might indicate that listening to [37:36] serial killer documentaries at 3:00 [37:39] a.m. I think in principle anything that [37:42] activates you uh stimulates [37:45] you cognitively or um makes you energize [37:49] you probably want to avoid reading yeah [37:52] interesting I think there's a group of [37:54] us out there I'm yet to meet them but I [37:56] but I know that I'm not alone that I [37:57] like to listen to Horror and Thriller [38:00] and serial killer stuff at um you know [38:04] very late at night and it helps us to [38:06] sleep or at least that's what we tell [38:07] ourselves I think if you perceive it as [38:10] helpful it probably is you know and I [38:13] think that's where and if your objective [38:14] data shows that you're getting you know [38:17] the requisite time in these deeper [38:18] stages of sleep then go with it I think [38:22] I think what is actually there's [38:24] definitely the cold dark quiet right you [38:26] need your room to be cold you need to be [38:28] dark you need to be quiet so there's [38:29] environmental stuff you need to um you [38:32] know stop eating a few hours before bed [38:34] ideally um you need to have stable sleep [38:36] wake time ideally these are all things [38:38] that are going to drive getting into [38:39] these deeper stages of sleep but the [38:41] other thing that you probably do really [38:43] well is you manage stress throughout the [38:45] day you know like you I think that's [38:48] another like the things that we do [38:51] during the day how we you know whether [38:54] or not we're living our values right do [38:55] our behaviors align with with things [38:56] that we care about are we thinking about [38:58] the things that we want to be thinking [38:59] about are we managing our relationships [39:01] effectively so all the things that can [39:03] manifest as stress negative stress um [39:08] will invariably rear its head during our [39:11] sleep but if we're managing those things [39:13] during the day proactively and [39:14] relatively well generally speaking like [39:17] sleep should happen you know pretty [39:19] naturally there's a huge group of people [39:22] who listen to podcasts like this and as [39:25] they listen to these podcasts they just [39:26] feel more depressed about their [39:28] situation you know because they've they [39:30] believe they're trying their very best [39:33] and they're still struggling especially [39:34] as it relates to sleep and I think I've [39:37] always wondered what the message one can [39:39] send to them and also you know I think [39:42] there is a huge component of sort of [39:44] personal responsibility and choice that [39:46] you speak about as well and that I [39:47] believe in as [39:48] well but what is the most compelling [39:51] message for those people that do have a [39:54] choice they they know deep and side much [39:57] of it is a lack of discipline they know [39:59] they could not watch YouTube they know [40:01] they could put their phone away at 9:00 [40:02] p.m. they know they could not eat the [40:04] cookie super late at night they know [40:06] they could deep down they know they [40:07] could make a different set of choices [40:09] but they listen to these podcasts over [40:10] and over again whenever I have the [40:11] health experts on maybe they even take [40:14] notes but they just don't do it yeah [40:17] what is the most [40:18] compelling thing you can say to those [40:20] people that do have a choice but [40:23] continually choose a bad option to get [40:26] them pushed over the fence to [40:29] the positive circadian rhythm body clock [40:33] loving side yeah so if people are trying [40:36] to [40:37] develop new habits you have to [40:41] understand how that new habit links to [40:44] your values so the things that you [40:46] believe in the things that you say you [40:47] care about right if I know growth and [40:49] impact are my two most important values [40:52] presence is another one how what do I [40:55] need to do every single day to back into [40:57] that so I can align my behaviors with [41:01] the things I say I care [41:03] about and I think when folks are [41:06] struggling um they don't really know who [41:10] they want to be in the world and they [41:12] don't maybe understand exactly what it [41:14] is that they value they're fuzzy about [41:18] their desires about their values and I [41:21] think you end up when you're fuzzy about [41:22] your desires and things you value end up [41:24] you're flinging yourself in all sorts of [41:25] directions emotionally physically [41:28] mentally right and and I think that's [41:30] kind of the project is figure out what [41:32] you care about and then align your [41:35] behaviors and create outlets in your [41:38] life and that frankly might [41:40] mean getting rid of people you know who [41:44] don't support those values and and I [41:46] think we're way too lenient on our [41:51] circle of friends um and in the sense of [41:56] you you know I think [41:57] we we keep people around in our life who [42:00] don't NE necessarily help us become a [42:03] better version of ourselves have you had [42:06] to shed some people yes [42:10] absolutely why did you shed them because [42:13] it it didn't really support who I wanted [42:16] to be who did you want to be um I wanted [42:19] to be able to wake up at a very simple [42:22] level with as much joy and energy as I [42:25] as I could and I I want to be present [42:27] for my kids and [42:29] um yeah [42:33] so and and and so I think and and I [42:38] think folks are [42:39] engaging in behaviors that [42:48] um I think you know create um a [42:52] situation [42:55] where [42:57] yeah I don't know how to say this that [42:58] like just say [43:00] it yeah I [43:03] mean I think you know for me um you know [43:07] I I grew up in a in a household where [43:10] you know my mom was an [43:12] alcoholic um you it was a tough [43:14] environment and um you know she ended up [43:18] you know dying of therosis and um you [43:21] know it's not easy you know [43:24] so being in that kind of environment so [43:27] I think for me you know you end up [43:32] um it's it's crazy how when you when you [43:36] live that life you end up repeating [43:39] those patterns and and I [43:43] think you know I had I had [43:46] to you know even though for me [43:49] personally I made choices where you know [43:52] I I I really have never drank alcohol [43:54] right because I saw how it destroyed my [43:57] family [43:59] and but yet I was still hanging around [44:02] with people who were engaging these [44:03] behaviors and and it just was impacting [44:06] me at my core and um it didn't mean that [44:09] I didn't love those folks but I had to [44:12] get away um you know and a lot of this [44:15] was you know related to you know I was [44:17] an environment at at a university where [44:20] you know that was just like the norm [44:23] like it is just wild to me how [44:26] educational institutions normalize binge [44:28] drinking at a level that is just so [44:33] destructive and you know and just to be [44:38] I suppose to just be around that all the [44:40] time like was just really not allowing [44:43] me to to show up daily as the person [44:46] that I wanted to be even though I wasn't [44:48] engaging in that behavior like it's [44:50] still like it just yeah it just made me [44:55] feel um um like I couldn't be the [44:57] version of myself that I wanted to be so [45:01] yeah just it's a lot of hard decisions [45:03] you know but um but I let go of a lot [45:06] you know to to be able to create an [45:09] Environ and infrastructure that [45:11] supported who I wanted to be in this [45:13] world when I talk about being able [45:16] to change your behavior and break a [45:20] habit it is nothing in the context of [45:24] someone who is INS snared by an [45:25] addiction of sorts it is nothing it's a [45:29] completely different conversation yeah [45:31] what is it like growing up with a mother [45:33] who You observe at a very young age you [45:37] how old I mean my whole life your whole [45:40] life yeah like [45:41] she as a child when you when you see a [45:46] parent someone you [45:47] love that is in that is sort of grip by [45:50] addiction what is that [45:52] like yeah I mean I think at a at a [45:55] fundamental level [45:58] um you just feel deprioritized I think [46:02] generally you know like you you know I [46:04] think you [46:05] feel [46:08] um you know you're you're you're [46:10] unsupervised number [46:12] one there isn't a lot of supervision you [46:15] know so you end up like really having to [46:18] to offend for yourself um my dad worked [46:21] a lot you know he was definitely [46:22] workolic um such a good man um so much [46:26] integrity and and but I think that was [46:29] his form of Escape but it kind of leads [46:31] you know you got to figure out how to [46:33] eat you got to you know you got to [46:34] figure out how to do a lot of the basic [46:36] stuff on your own so you develop a lot [46:40] of Independence I think but it it's hard [46:44] to um you know form emotional [46:47] attachments I think um as an adult [46:50] unless you really work through that you [46:52] know because you're you're afraid that [46:55] you're not going to be taken care [46:57] of what did you come to understand about [46:59] your mother's addiction and what she was [47:02] struggling with if anything at [47:04] all yeah I mean I think what was so sad [47:08] about that time period is is you know I [47:12] think it was well understood you know I [47:14] think um a lot of those behaviors I [47:19] think to degree are normalized and I [47:21] don't know that there the connection [47:22] between depression you know she was no [47:26] she she had massive seasonal effect [47:28] disorder which one of the reasons why [47:30] I'm so interested in you know um kind of [47:32] everything related to to light and and [47:34] just the opportunity there for for for [47:37] health but um you know she had major [47:40] depressive disorder and you know was not [47:43] diagnosed Pro properly I don't even [47:45] remember I have no idea if she ever even [47:47] went to the doctor to you know to try to [47:49] get treated um so you know I I think the [47:55] the biggest [47:57] thing that I learned is that we can [48:00] actually make choices um and and I know [48:03] that there are you know when you look at [48:04] regions of the brain we understand that [48:07] people are predisposed but I think [48:09] there's a lot of things that we can we [48:11] can actually control to reduce our [48:14] vulnerability to um to some of these [48:17] diseases how has that experience defined [48:20] and shaped you when you look back and [48:22] connect [48:23] dots yeah I mean I just always you I was [48:27] very competitive high level a athlete [48:30] representing um the US and and so [48:32] there's definitely trying to understand [48:34] my own body and my psychology so I could [48:36] perform my potential but there's no [48:38] question that like this whole everything [48:40] that like underpins the work that I do [48:42] is is trying to to understand you know [48:46] how we [48:47] can improve our own situation so we can [48:52] um you know self actualize and and live [48:55] our potential and um so that was I [49:00] always you know [49:03] felt um so bad you know for my [49:09] mom [49:11] why you know that she wasn't able to [49:14] become the [49:17] version of [49:19] herself like I wasn't able to realize [49:21] her [49:22] potential and she had so [49:24] much [49:29] I can't believe you did this to [49:30] [Laughter] [49:34] me would you like a tissue [49:42] thanks you're very um you're a very [49:44] special person and it all makes makes [49:46] ton of sense why you've got such an [49:48] incredible incredible drive and Mission [49:51] to you I didn't I didn't know any of [49:52] those what You' just said but I've never [49:54] talked about that public so I'm just [49:57] yeah what a what a wonderful way to have [50:00] channeled such a [50:02] unimaginable pain to then sort of fix [50:07] you know hundreds of thousands of [50:08] people's other lives and help them get [50:10] closer towards their own potential yeah [50:16] I and I I never want to like project my [50:20] values onto other folks [50:22] but but I think that's always been like [50:25] a the core of like why I do what I I do [50:28] is and the reason why I coached for so [50:30] long is I just love seeing people like [50:34] realize their potential or understand [50:36] their potential knowing that we're [50:37] always of course a work in progress but [50:41] I just like I want like everyone to be [50:44] able to wake up and [50:46] feel you know be energetic and and be [50:49] able to like really really live the [50:52] things that you you care about you know [50:54] and and just and understanding I think [50:56] the path to that you know requires some [51:00] work you know in terms of making sure [51:02] that you're attending to some of these [51:04] non-negotiables that we're talking about [51:06] and I think sometimes it takes folks [51:09] time to connect those dots and there's a [51:10] lot of wonderful learning that comes [51:13] with that but I think if I can kind of [51:15] help accelerate some of that wisdom and [51:18] keep people from experiencing I think [51:21] some of the pain that I felt you know [51:23] it's worth it to me it's the most incred [51:25] incredible incredible thing that you've [51:27] committed your life to because me and [51:30] you are both aware that there's going to [51:31] be a ton of people who are either on a [51:34] path towards such an addiction or are [51:36] currently enthralled by such an [51:38] addiction and the work that you're doing [51:40] the message you're spreading is going to [51:43] prevent and lift some of those people [51:44] out of that situation which has has a [51:47] wonderful karmic effect on the world and [51:48] I think if there's anything that we can [51:50] convert our pain into it is it is [51:53] exactly that I want to talk about [51:56] alcohol I've recently quit drinking [51:58] alcohol I think it was about 3 to four [52:00] months ago now um it was so interesting [52:03] I had a conversation with some of my [52:04] best friends I said this on a podcast a [52:06] couple of couple of months ago and one [52:09] of my friends was an alcoholic so he [52:13] managed to um quit alcohol and he's [52:15] writing a book about it and then as I [52:16] look across the group of my other [52:17] friends none of them are alcoholics but [52:19] they're all sort of casual Drinkers and [52:21] we were sat there together around this [52:22] table having dinner and he was telling [52:24] us about this he's writing about [52:26] quitting alcohol and I was at there [52:28] thinking that book that he's writing [52:31] doesn't necessarily resonate with me [52:34] because I've never had I've never felt [52:36] like I've had an addiction or really to [52:37] be honest any problem with it yeah I am [52:40] such I was such a casual drinker I would [52:42] have maybe one glass of wine a week if [52:45] that there's probably months I've gone [52:47] without any alcohol at all so I couldn't [52:49] think of a reason to quit so really I [52:52] was saying to him is there another book [52:54] that someone else could write for me [52:56] that just takes those people that are [52:58] those casual drinkers that are right on [52:59] the fence and just gives us a reason to [53:02] nudge over the other side and because I [53:04] have this podcast I thought you know [53:05] I'll just try and quit and see if see [53:06] what the implications are for my [53:09] life alcohol Health circadian [53:14] rhythms what are you what's your [53:15] perspective on all of this well I I like [53:18] to think about it I love this the the [53:21] principle of non-neutrality [53:23] right and and this is [53:26] is how I like to think about behaviors [53:29] and and how I've kind of always thought [53:31] about it is if you've got a series of [53:34] behaviors we talked a lot about about [53:36] sleep um and and you know physiological [53:39] things and you've got the psychological [53:40] things and they're either going to [53:43] support your your values kind of who you [53:45] want to be in this world or they're not [53:47] and and I think that's the lens with [53:49] which I look at alcohol you know in what [53:51] way is this supporting my values of [53:54] growth and impact and and presence and [53:57] compassion and um tolerance you know the [54:00] the things that are like core to who I [54:02] want to be in this world and and I think [54:04] when you look at it through that lens [54:06] the choices become really clear to me um [54:09] if you're honest with yourself and you [54:10] have some degree of [54:12] self-awareness understand what you care [54:14] about I think choices become a lot [54:18] clearer like there's way way more [54:21] clarity about how to live your life um [54:25] in in the micro which is really what [54:27] we're talking about these just many [54:28] choices throughout the day does it does [54:31] it does it support who you want to be in [54:32] the world or does it not and and there's [54:34] very little gray actually and the gray [54:37] are excuses in in my view and and we can [54:40] rationalize and make stuff all you know [54:44] all day long right to to to make [54:46] ourselves feel better but when you can [54:48] step back from all of that and look at [54:51] it really you know taking yourself kind [54:54] of out of the equation and look at it [54:56] from a a very objective standpoint um [55:00] you know I think a choice like alcohol [55:02] becomes very [55:04] clear but it helps me to socialize [55:08] Kristen yeah if if you need alcohol to [55:12] bond or [55:13] to you know form a [55:16] connection there's probably something [55:19] else going on that is unaddressed in [55:22] from my perspective is that such a thing [55:27] as such a small dose of alcohol that it [55:31] doesn't [55:31] matter in your opinion yeah I mean I [55:34] think it depends on who you are um and I [55:39] I think there's a lot of individual [55:40] variability there as as well I know R [55:43] Resveratrol is is something that's [55:45] talked about a lot and there's [55:48] uh you know suppose there's in wine and [55:51] grapes there's ratol and that's been [55:53] linked to um enhanced uh health and [55:57] well-being but I think you'd have to [55:58] drink like 10 b or something to get the [56:00] amount of resp respirol to actually make [56:03] a um uh to to make a dent I don't think [56:07] that's the argument um so yeah I don't [56:10] know that really any amount of alcohol [56:12] is is going to be is going to be helpful [56:14] and we know from the literature that [56:15] just one to two drinks per week uh will [56:18] can have you know negative implications [56:21] um on on health so um it's actually I [56:24] don't know that any like even in a [56:26] moderate amount of alcohol is good for [56:28] you what's the implications for our [56:30] Cadian rhythms that we've been talking [56:31] about yeah it's mainly because it [56:33] impacts sleep it's going to impact when [56:35] you go to bed and when you wake up um so [56:38] I think that's the biggest the biggest [56:39] impact and I think again when we go back [56:41] to [56:42] melatonin um you know it's when you're [56:47] disrupting that that sleep onet offset [56:49] um that's going to uh obviously have all [56:53] the downstream negative effects that we [56:55] we've already spoken about so I suppose [56:57] if we're drinking we're staying out [56:59] later so we're exposing ourselves to to [57:01] light um so yeah there's lots of uh [57:03] we're going to be eating later uh [57:05] there's other um behaviors that [57:08] accompany drinking that kind of you know [57:11] pile on the the negative effects I was [57:14] reading some research from the Sleep [57:16] foundation and it says that a 2007 study [57:18] with 29 young adults found that moderate [57:21] doses of alcohol up to 1 hour before [57:23] bedtime reduced Mel Onin production by [57:25] nearly [57:26] 20% that's the study on alcohol and [57:29] melatonin in young adults a 2018 study [57:32] of [57:33] 4,908 Finnish participants found that [57:36] Sleep Quality was was reduced by [57:39] 99.3% after one glass of wine and by 24% [57:44] after two glasses of wine and by almost [57:47] 40% 39.2% after three or more glasses of [57:51] wine or an equivalent amount of alcohol [57:54] yeah which is is really really [57:55] staggering that your Sleep Quality will [57:57] could di 40% after three glasses of wine [58:01] oh yeah it's I mean we see it is we just [58:04] finished this analysis actually looking [58:06] at alcohol and markers of recovery so [58:08] heart rate variability and heart rate [58:10] and literally with every drink it is [58:12] just there's a linear relationship in [58:13] the decline like and it is significant [58:16] um so I mean yeah it's we're talking [58:19] even one drink um will produce [58:22] clinically significant reduction in [58:25] heart rate and heart R variability this [58:27] was maybe the most [58:29] compelling motivator for me to quit [58:32] alcohol was when I got my whoop the [58:34] first time and then I think it was [58:36] someone's birthday or something so we [58:37] went out and I had a glass of wine or [58:38] something I woke I woke up the next day [58:41] looked at my heart rate variability [58:42] which is the a measure of how well I'm [58:44] going to be able to deal with stress and [58:45] load and all those things the next day [58:47] how well my body's going to be able to [58:48] deal with life and it was flashing red [58:51] which is like a warning and and it says [58:52] on there when I clicked on the flashing [58:53] red thing it was like like did you have [58:56] a really stressful day are you sick or [59:00] did you drink alcohol last night and I [59:01] felt so targeted I was like how does [59:05] this thing know that I had one glass of [59:07] wine last night with my friends why is [59:09] something flashing red with inside of me [59:11] people keep Diaries on whoop don't they [59:13] they keep like the whoop Journal I it's [59:14] called yeah so it's a go mine of [59:17] information actually really yeah what [59:18] have you learned from that in terms of [59:20] alcohol I imagine that's where a lot of [59:21] the conclusions yeah mean we see a six [59:24] per reduction in next day recovery after [59:28] alcohol on average so this is you know [59:31] one drink to 10 drink you know it's just [59:32] basically looking at the the average is [59:35] 6% okay so theage of okay recovery so if [59:39] someone's having if someone was B Bing [59:41] drinking it they could have a 30 or 40% [59:43] reduction yeah but it kind of and we we [59:46] might and and that specific data point [59:49] might we might have controlled for you [59:52] know the the 30 drinks or you know it's [59:55] it's probably somewhere in the range of [59:56] five drinks you know per night and and [59:59] the average recovery reduction is six 6% [60:01] and that's relying on self-reporting [60:03] right so I wonder if there's biases in [60:05] what there might there might be yeah [60:07] people that had 10 drinks think they had [60:08] four but I think yeah exactly I don't [60:11] really remember how many drinks I had so [60:13] yeah any drinks I had interesting super [60:16] interesting the other thing we obviously [60:17] drink is coffee yes caffeine surely [60:20] there's a correlation between circadian [60:23] disruption and CA that's definitely one [60:24] of the Circadian kind it definitely can [60:27] disrupt circadian rhythms if we're [60:28] having caffeine you know [60:31] within eight to 12 hours I would say of [60:34] when we intend to sleep um it's going to [60:36] impact our sleep onset of course um and [60:38] even if we're you know tired enough [60:40] where we have you know we're sleep [60:42] deprived um we might might fall asleep [60:47] but it will invariably end up disrupting [60:49] or fragmenting our sleep so we're not [60:51] kind of getting into that deeper stages [60:52] of sleep we're not achieving the sleep [60:54] quality that um that is going to Le you [60:57] know allow us to wake up feeling [60:58] restored and refreshed so timing of [61:00] caffeine is really important what of [61:02] this conversation makes me have a huge [61:04] amount of empathy for shift workers oh [61:07] and when I say shift workers I don't I [61:08] don't mean people working you know [61:10] warehouses I mean doctors nurses [61:13] firefight [61:15] firefighters the police um truck [61:18] drivers people that are baking yeah [61:22] anyone who's up between the hours of you [61:24] know for more than two hours between the [61:26] hours of 10 P p.m. and 4 a. is [61:27] considered a shift worker so it's yes [61:30] there's a lot of a lot of individuals [61:32] walking around who are shift workers but [61:34] people who are you know literally up [61:36] during the biological night um you know [61:39] it's it's a huge sacrifice we know those [61:40] folks on average are going to die 15 [61:44] years sooner it is you know shift work [61:47] is considered a carcinogen by the World [61:50] Health Organization it's you know shift [61:52] work is um those folks make an enormous [61:55] sacrifice they're going to die 15 years [61:57] sooner on [61:59] average I mean that's terrifying I [62:04] know is anybody is anybody trying to Sol [62:07] for that yeah I mean that's a lot of the [62:09] work that I do is is looking at shift [62:12] work you know and trying to understand [62:14] you know what other levers you know can [62:16] we deploy to offset some of the the the [62:20] impact of of being awake during the the [62:22] biological night and you know time [62:25] eating as a lever you know really [62:26] thinking about when we're eating protein [62:29] um you know when we're viewing light [62:33] um you know what what do the what's the [62:36] Cadence of of of you know on off um so [62:41] we minimize the disruption dadian [62:43] rhythms I mean the fact is like the [62:45] roster size at these hospitals are just [62:47] simply not big enough to be able to uh I [62:51] think deploy schedules that mitigate [62:54] some of the the risk associated with [62:57] this disrupted circadian rhythm but it [63:00] is frightening and um you know there is [63:02] a lot of work to try to understand how [63:04] we can mitigate some of the the negative [63:06] effects but it's it's it's it's a tough [63:09] problem to solve it's not just I guess [63:12] it's not just that those individuals [63:14] will die you know on average 15 years [63:17] earlier but their quality of life I [63:19] imagine won't be as good because if [63:21] they're not sleeping yeah consistently [63:28] it'ser [63:30] fol these profs you know who are having [63:33] to operate counter to the Natural Light [63:36] Dark cycle so let's talk about that then [63:38] mental health depression [63:41] suicidality what's the correlation there [63:43] between yeah so there's a lot of [63:44] interesting research I mean you know one [63:47] is just you know we talk about just the [63:49] lay person so getting outside of shift [63:50] work we come back to shift work you know [63:52] if you look at um this most folks [63:55] experience social jet lag right which is [63:58] basically characterized as um you know a [64:02] a big a difference between our weekday [64:06] sleep schedule and our weekend sleep [64:08] schedule right so pretty much anyone you [64:11] know between 20 20 to 30 probably is you [64:15] know kind of falls into this bucket of [64:17] of having social jet lag but one of the [64:19] things that we one a research study we [64:21] saw looking at specifically a social jet [64:23] lag in and college students they saw [64:26] that for every hour of variability [64:30] between week day and weekend schedules [64:33] they saw a 177% increase in non-suicidal [64:36] ideation so these folks aren't [64:38] committing suicide but they're [64:42] fantasizing about committing suicide and [64:44] that increases 17% and this was more [64:47] pronounced than individuals who were [64:49] already [64:49] vulnerable so kind of coming back to [64:53] circadian disrup ion being present in [64:55] 100% of mental health issues we can see [64:58] where shift workers would be extremely [65:00] vulnerable right to mental health issues [65:03] given that their variability and we look [65:06] at the whoop data it's basically random [65:09] in terms of looking at their sleep wake [65:10] time it's so variable that it it's like [65:13] we can't even see a patter it's [65:15] random which is frightening why is that [65:18] frightening because you know the more [65:21] variability you have like the more [65:25] psychological and [65:27] physiological uh you know negative [65:29] consequences there'll be is there a [65:32] correlation here between how we deal [65:34] with stressful events in our lives as [65:36] well because I'm assuming there must be [65:38] absolutely managing stress throughout [65:40] the the day uh and and the degree or [65:43] even during the night um can uh [65:47] definitely increase your tolerance for [65:49] stress so you know deploying breath work [65:53] for example um as you know on demand [65:57] self-regulation tool to pay down in the- [66:00] moment stress can be and to activate the [66:03] parastic branch of the nervous system [66:04] can be really powerful so you know I [66:07] kind of call these mini moments of [66:08] deactivation so doing that proactively [66:10] for folks who are in these high St [66:12] Stakes high stress environments is an [66:15] amazing strategy um because lots of [66:18] those folks again if you think about [66:20] just Baseline when you are engaging in [66:23] shift work and you're awake during the [66:25] night your system is humming at a uh a a [66:29] kind of a stress level that is above [66:31] what would be normal right like your [66:33] your system is having to work so much [66:35] harder to maintain homeostasis because [66:38] you're doing exactly the opposite of [66:40] what your body wants to do so all the [66:42] kind of biological preferences are being [66:45] um bypassed right when you're up during [66:47] the the biological night so to pay down [66:50] some of that stress you know these many [66:53] moments of deactivation are absolutely [66:55] critical for that [66:56] population so that means uh just [66:59] literally taking 30 seconds where you're [67:00] doing the physiological sigh for example [67:03] which we know has emerged as being the [67:04] most efficacious breath work technique [67:06] in the moment to reduce not only in the [67:09] moment anxiety and stress but actually [67:12] you know your perception of anxiety and [67:14] stress like in the future what is that [67:16] sign the physiological sigh it's [67:18] basically a double inhale followed by an [67:20] extended [67:22] exhale perfect it's exactly [67:25] right so basically like when you're [67:28] crying um it it you know you kind of do [67:30] that double double inhale all B extended [67:33] exhale but that like reduces stress in [67:36] the moment in a really powerful way and [67:37] if you do that you know five 10 times um [67:42] you're end up activating the parastic [67:44] branch so you're reducing your heart [67:46] rate um and uh and and you know kind of [67:50] doing that throughout the day is is a [67:51] great way to um mitigate Nega negative [67:54] stress accumulation there's a pretty [67:56] unfortunate Paradox a pretty tragic [67:58] Paradox in the fact that our shift [68:00] workers some of them like doctors [68:02] especially are the people that we need [68:04] to be most focused firing on our [68:06] cylinders exactly yeah but those are the [68:08] people that are from what I've learned [68:11] today about the Circadian rhythm most [68:12] likely to suffer with things like focus [68:15] and sleep and all of those things that [68:17] are imperative to showing up well yeah I [68:19] mean there's a relationship you know we [68:21] know that with every 45 minutes of sleep [68:24] deprivation acur on the W platform we [68:27] see a 5 to 10% next day decrease in [68:29] mental control mental control executive [68:32] function so we we measure this um with [68:35] an MC and a Stroop so these kind of uh [68:38] performance tests to measure executive [68:41] function and we see for every 45 minutes [68:44] of sleep dat AC crude we see up to 10% [68:47] decrease or decline in next day [68:50] executive function and what does [68:51] executive function mean for people that [68:53] are our ability to make [68:55] decisions okay use the word there sleep [68:58] debt what is sleep debt so that's [69:00] basically what you need versus what you [69:03] actually got and that's highly [69:05] individual right and and that's one of [69:07] the kind of beautiful things on the wo [69:09] platform is that we learn your your body [69:12] we learn how efficient sleeper you are [69:14] we learn what your optimal sleep wake [69:16] time should be and we basically tell you [69:19] how much time you need to spend in bed [69:21] so a lot of the work that my my team has [69:23] done specifically at whoop is to try to [69:26] understand you know what is this [69:28] relationship to of sleep debt to other [69:31] performance metrics that we care about [69:32] right that tell us a story about [69:35] someone's ability to kind of function in [69:36] their environment and one of the studies [69:39] that we did um was looking specifically [69:41] at business Executives so CEO types um [69:46] and we we basically looked at um it was [69:48] this this one was a six-month study um [69:51] looking at two different cohorts uh [69:54] both you know I think equal distribution [69:56] between men and men and women and and [69:58] what we saw was for every 45 minutes of [70:00] sleep debt acred in these Business [70:02] Leaders we saw a 5 to 10% decrease in [70:06] next day executive function so the [70:09] leader's ability to make decisions in [70:11] the presence of sleep debt um you know [70:14] gets gets worse the more sleep debt you [70:17] acrew we did a follow-up study and this [70:19] one was wild so we basically looked at [70:23] um it was roughly it was about 70 uh [70:26] business executive CEO types and we [70:29] looked at um all of their objective [70:31] markers sleep at being one of them and [70:33] we look at the psychological safety of [70:36] their direct reports during team [70:38] meetings and Define psychological safety [70:41] you're how um how safe you feel to show [70:45] up in your environment as your true most [70:48] authentic [70:50] self and what we saw is again for every [70:54] 45 minutes of sleep that the leader had [70:57] there was a significant decrease in [71:00] psychological safety of the direct [71:02] reports so they felt less safe in their [71:05] environment to show up as their true [71:07] self when their leader had 45 minutes of [71:10] sleep debt acred and and some of these [71:13] folks were carrying a couple hours of [71:15] sleep debt so and there was a linear [71:17] relationship between the amount of [71:18] psychological safety and the amount of [71:20] of sleep that the leader had so and what [71:22] was so interesting and compelling about [71:24] this research is that the leader had no [71:27] idea they couldn't perceive their own [71:29] cognitive physical and emotional [71:31] declines right but that's what's so [71:33] Insidious about sleep deprivation is [71:36] that you can't really tell when you're [71:39] operating at a lower [71:41] level you just adapt to that lower level [71:44] of [71:45] functioning but everyone around you can [71:47] feel it right just with how you hold [71:49] hold your face how you emote um the kind [71:53] of eye contact you make how tolerant you [71:55] are um and you you think about how sleep [71:59] deprivation you know it and I think this [72:03] is really what this research surfaces [72:04] it's just it's not just sleep [72:07] deprivation just doesn't impact me right [72:10] it's going to impact every single person [72:11] I come in contact with and from a [72:14] business perspective just from a sheer [72:16] like numbers perspective Google um did a [72:20] study called Aristotle and they looked [72:22] at psych they looked at a bunch of [72:24] different metrics related to team [72:25] performance and what emerged in that [72:28] study is being most predictive of team [72:30] performance was the degree to which the [72:32] team had psychological safety felt safe [72:34] in their environment to kind of show up [72:36] as their as their true self and they [72:38] brought in to the tune of $4.5 million [72:41] more than teams who are lacking [72:44] psychological [72:45] safety so this is like a really [72:48] important concept that I don't think a [72:49] lot of people talk about but when we go [72:52] back to this concept of the principle of [72:53] non-neutrality right and what are [72:56] behaviors that promote enable you to [72:59] live your values and and kind of show up [73:01] as as your your best self as [73:03] consistently as possible minimizing [73:06] sleep debt is right there at the top of [73:07] the list it's fascinating and as it [73:10] relates to sort of accident and injury [73:12] is there a correlation between sort of [73:15] injury of oneself and accidents you [73:17] commit on others correlation between [73:19] that and sleep debt it's very well [73:21] established that um the more sleep that [73:24] you're you're carrying you know the more [73:26] accident prone you are um you know the [73:29] the the the more risk you're going to [73:31] take um and uh yeah we see this in in [73:34] the medical field we see this um you [73:37] know in in you know just car accidents [73:39] and yeah it the list goes on and on car [73:42] accidents a 2016 study by the foundation [73:45] for Traffic Safety found that drivers [73:46] who reported that they usually sleep [73:48] four to 5 hours per day had [73:51] 5.4 times the crash rate of drivers who [73:56] usually sleep for seven hours or more a [73:58] day which is horrifying yeah I know it's [74:02] it's uh yeah I mean we look when we [74:05] think [74:06] about you know sleep it's it's we're not [74:10] getting better at it as a society and I [74:13] and I think we're we're kind of coming [74:15] at this conversation from the long the [74:16] wrong lens you know we're telling folks [74:18] just to spend more time in bed without [74:20] addressing the behaviors that are [74:22] actually enabling us to fall asleep and [74:24] stay asleep you know that's to me that's [74:27] that's the conversation and and it's not [74:29] about spending more time in bed and yeah [74:31] that might be what needs to happen but [74:33] it's it's about you're not going to get [74:35] there for folks who who are not thinking [74:40] about all the Circadian things that [74:41] we're talking about and um you know some [74:43] of the environmental stuff the cold dark [74:45] the quiet yes that matters but um but at [74:47] a foundational level I think folks are [74:50] not engaging in the behaviors that are [74:51] going to enable us to pay down the sleep [74:55] deprivation the other study that I found [74:56] that was super interesting um was that a [74:59] 2021 study found that less than seven [75:01] hours of [75:02] sleep is associated with increased risk [75:05] of injury and if this is sustained for [75:07] at least 14 days the risk of muscle and [75:09] bone injury is 1.7 times almost two [75:12] times higher yeah so as someone that [75:14] goes to the gym a lot and likes to work [75:16] out if I have a high sleep debt then I'm [75:20] much more likely to get an injury almost [75:22] two times more likely get injury if [75:23] that's sustained that's right which is [75:25] crazy yeah it is yeah and you know I'm [75:29] so grateful that I think folks are [75:32] finally realizing that sleep is the [75:34] greatest natural performance enhancer [75:37] that we have on this planet um yeah it's [75:41] and that is certainly super evident in [75:43] all the research that we're doing what [75:45] about sleep and [75:47] sex sex with a partner is a health [75:50] promoting behavior and we have found [75:52] that in our in our [75:53] research when what research have you [75:56] done yeah I we just we actually haven't [75:58] published it yet so this is preliminary [76:00] preliminary data but um but we people [76:03] who um are reporting that they're having [76:05] sex uh before bed so within a few hours [76:09] of of when they intend to sleep with a [76:11] partner have um better markers of sleep [76:14] and Recovery you said with a partner [76:15] very intentionally there I did yeah we [76:18] don't we don't see the same effect um [76:21] when folks are are having sex with [76:23] without a partner in reporting it how do [76:24] you have sex without a partner I mean [76:27] that all right I should say a partner [76:28] like a spouse or a boyfriend or you know [76:31] someone who you're consistently with so [76:33] we're not we're talking about I guess [76:34] not one night stance sorry I should have [76:36] clarified it I thought you meant with [76:38] without a human at tool oh God yeah [76:40] we're I'm talking about human sex here [76:41] yeah does masturbation have the same [76:44] implications do I um we didn't we didn't [76:46] see big effects with masturbation are [76:48] people reporting that they're onop they [76:50] sure are they are I should say that it [76:52] is complet completely optional to track [76:54] so people can opt into tracking these [76:56] things again it is completely [76:57] deidentified we have no ability to to [77:01] know who's doing what in terms of [77:02] Journal tracking and behaviors um but uh [77:06] yeah so we don't actually see uh any big [77:08] effects with with masturbation and any [77:10] markers of sleep and recovery so no no [77:13] strong no strong effects there we said [77:15] something earlier about exercising [77:16] before bed now if I have sex before bed [77:20] and you [77:21] know it lasts a long time time [77:24] yeah is that not then going to produce a [77:28] ton of adrenaline and wake me up again [77:31] so after so it depends if you [77:33] ejaculate then um you will then release [77:38] oxytocin which is kind of a [77:41] calming chemical so guys typically after [77:45] they ejaculate feel sleepy because of [77:48] the release of of oxytocin but then that [77:51] goes back to my point about masturbation [77:52] don't you really oxytocin when you [77:53] masturbate yeah I think I think the [77:55] oxytocin is about connection okay right [77:59] so it's it's that's I think that's and [78:01] that might be why we see these strong [78:04] effects when you're having sex with a [78:07] partner or a spouse [78:10] um is is that you're you're getting this [78:12] benefit of this this beautiful [78:14] connection with your partner and and [78:15] spouse provided it goes well um and then [78:18] you release this oxytocin which is you [78:21] know kind of makes you feel uh connected [78:23] and safe and um so all of those I think [78:27] those that kind of condition uh helps I [78:30] think you fall asleep and and [78:32] potentially stay asleep it does make [78:33] sense because I do get very very tired [78:35] after I've had sex with my partner and [78:38] I've always wondered why that is I don't [78:40] know that women uh it seems to have [78:43] women want to maybe stay up and snuggle [78:46] and talk a little bit more after sex [78:49] so but but guys it seems get sleepy and [78:52] want to fall asleep [78:54] and all want to run off a bit of a [78:57] stereotype that goes back quite far [78:59] prehistorically as you know this podcast [79:01] is sponsored by whoop and people often [79:02] ask me why I chose whoop over all of the [79:05] possible wearable options and I've tried [79:07] many of them but whoop for me stands out [79:09] for several reasons a because of its [79:11] noninvasive design B Because of its [79:14] unique analytics and C a membership [79:17] model that continually evolves with the [79:19] product but the biggest GameChanger for [79:21] me which is reason d is wop's ability to [79:24] Foster meaningful Behavior change for me [79:26] with whoop I've been more attuned than [79:28] ever before on how my daily activities [79:30] can impact my sleep and stress levels [79:33] and their features like the whoop coach [79:35] feature which they recently announced [79:36] and the journal and the weekly planner [79:38] Have Been instrumental in helping me to [79:40] maintain health and fitness habits that [79:42] I previously struggled to achieve [79:44] consistency with if you're looking to [79:46] improve your health and fitness this [79:47] year Beyond January then you've got to [79:49] give whoop a try go to join. whoop.com / [79:53] CEO and you'll be able to get whooped [79:55] for 30 days risk-free with zero [79:57] commitment and let me know how you get [79:59] on quick one we are working with an [80:02] exciting new sponsor on this podcast [80:03] Shopify I'm sure you guys have heard of [80:06] Shopify if you haven't been living under [80:07] a rock but for those that don't know [80:09] Shopify is a Commerce platform [80:11] revolutionizing millions of businesses [80:13] worldwide it is pretty incredible they [80:15] provide everything you need to start [80:17] your business and it's super simple to [80:18] get started and to get your business out [80:20] there here at the D SEO we've used [80:22] Shopify for a variety of our different [80:24] product drops the latest being the [80:26] conversation cards and without the help [80:27] of Shopify that wouldn't have been [80:29] possible it's mine and my team's goto [80:32] website for all things Commerce related [80:35] so I'm giving you guys the chance to [80:37] trial Shopify for $1 that's right $1 [80:42] sign up for a $1 trial for a month by [80:45] searching shopify.com [80:48] Bartlet all lowercase keep it to [80:51] yourself and let me know how you get on [80:54] the other thing I I would love to talk [80:55] to you about because it's become a huge [80:56] Obsession in my life is this word guess [80:59] it's not a word it's an acronym HRV [81:01] heart rate variability been become [81:03] absolutely obsessed with it maybe a [81:05] little bit too obsessed with it one [81:07] might argue I just check it every day so [81:09] the first thing I do when I wake up in [81:10] the morning is I look at it yeah um just [81:12] to understand how my body has recovered [81:15] from the night before right um what is [81:18] HRV it's most simply the time interval [81:21] between Heartbeats [81:23] and um it's a function of the heart but [81:26] it uh originates in the autonomic [81:28] nervous system and as we talked about [81:30] the autonomic nervous system has two [81:32] branches the parasympathetic and the [81:34] sympathetic Paras sympatic thr and [81:36] digest sympathetic is you know fight or [81:38] flight and they're both competing to [81:40] send signals to the heart when you are [81:42] super recovered your your heart is going [81:45] to be responsive to both branches of [81:47] that autonomic nervous system in a very [81:49] kind of um Dynamic way so so whatever [81:53] you want to do and what's happening in [81:57] your environment you're able to [81:58] basically make a match the more [82:00] recovered you are that makes sense so um [82:03] you're be able to respond and react to [82:05] environmental stress and in kind of a a [82:08] more High performing way I suppose is [82:10] the best way to say it so um heart [82:13] variability is is kind of a measure of [82:16] that ability to adapt to your [82:19] environment in a functional way and a [82:22] high har variability which is more [82:24] varying beats [82:27] heartbeats is is better yeah more [82:30] variability the better so higher hearty [82:32] variability should be correlated with uh [82:35] a better adaptation to environmental [82:37] stress so a low heart rate variability [82:39] would sound something like this boom [82:41] boom boom that's exactly right very very [82:44] consistent not good right a high heart [82:47] rate variability will sound like bum bum [82:50] bum bum boom so really varied perfect [82:55] beautiful paral that variation is is [82:59] better yeah You' think that if something [83:01] was consistent yeah it would be better I [83:04] know in all other cases it is but in the [83:06] case of heart R variability it's very [83:08] counterintuitive and what's great is [83:09] hearty variability is is modifiable to a [83:13] degree um you know what's what's a good [83:16] what's an average heart rate variability [83:18] so it's all based on genetics it's [83:20] really tough right cuz I don't know what [83:21] your heart rate ability was when you [83:23] were born right so I don't I don't know [83:24] like what your [83:27] potential for heart R variability is and [83:30] and I think [83:31] that's the only thing that I think we [83:33] can say and I think how people need to [83:35] think about it is when you come on to a [83:38] you know the woot platform for example [83:39] you're going to get your your hearty [83:42] variability you're going to develop a [83:43] baseline And I think what people need to [83:45] understand is that every Behavior you've [83:48] every choice you've kind of made leading [83:51] up to that moment is going to determine [83:54] like your Baseline hearty variability so [83:56] if you you know drink and take drugs and [84:00] have a lot of childhood trauma um that [84:02] might actually yield a lower Baseline [84:05] heart variability relative to your own [84:08] potential right um so it's it's it's [84:11] very hard to compare because of all of [84:14] that um but then just genetics heart [84:16] size um gender like all those things a [84:19] biological sex all those things have an [84:21] impact on [84:23] um on your heart variability on your [84:24] Baseline so you don't want to compare [84:26] there's no good um that said I think the [84:29] higher the better generally what what's [84:31] the average well it depends on age so it [84:34] decreases you know every year your heart [84:36] variability is going to decrease um much [84:39] a bit I think it's like 3 to four% or [84:41] something that's terrifying I really [84:43] which is kind of a lotas the average on [84:45] Theo platform you know from the 20 to 30 [84:47] year olds is somewhere in the tune of of [84:51] kind of 65 70 [84:53] 30 to 40 year olds a little bit lower 40 [84:56] to 50s you it's kind of in the 50s range [84:59] I think so definitely gets worse as you [85:02] age but I think why people are obsessed [85:04] about it is it's just it is a really [85:06] good marker of just the overall state of [85:10] your mental physical and emotional [85:12] health do women and men have variance in [85:14] their heart they do yeah so generally [85:15] men would have um uh higher heart R [85:19] variability than women I think at [85:21] Baseline your heart size I'm trying to [85:24] get my heart rate variability [85:26] up what what are the most important [85:28] things for me to be thinking about CU [85:30] I've it seems to be a bit of a mystery [85:32] this heart rate variability thing so [85:34] there's definitely some things that will [85:35] directly impact your heart rate [85:36] variability sleep wake time so [85:38] stabilizing when you go a to wake up [85:40] yeah um wake wake onset being kind of [85:42] the number one priority you want to wake [85:44] up at a regular time every single day [85:46] you want to get a huge ballus of light [85:48] as soon as you wake up you want to get a [85:49] lot of natural light during the day okay [85:52] all these things are going to impact [85:53] inflammation and cortisol like all the [85:56] the things that are kind of circulating [85:58] in our body that um we need to be [86:00] circulating and we're not doing some of [86:02] these behaviors they're not circulating [86:04] in our body which have negative [86:05] Downstream effects um you want to [86:08] mitigate stress throughout the day so um [86:10] you know stress is not bad um but we [86:14] need to proactively uh manage bouts of [86:18] stress with appropriate levels of rest [86:21] right when we are [86:22] going going going and um we can only [86:26] sustain that for so long so just being [86:28] proactive with stress rest Cycles [86:30] throughout the day really important as [86:32] we go we want to eat a bulk of our [86:34] calories in the morning you know lots [86:36] and lots of protein um we want to make [86:39] sure that we get lots of protein I think [86:41] folks don't probably get enough protein [86:44] um want to get lots of protein um bias [86:47] early in the day um stop eating a few [86:50] hours before bedtime make sure you're [86:53] hydrated throughout the day um yes [86:56] absolutely so I can go down a very deep [86:58] Rabbit Hole in terms of optimal training [87:01] protocols but but in some um we want to [87:05] make sure that we're uh polarizing our [87:07] training in that we're doing you know [87:09] zone five which is you know kind of Max [87:13] effort where we're out of breath a [87:15] couple times a week okay two to three [87:18] times a week and then we want to do zone [87:20] two which is kind of um um you know just [87:23] a a lowlevel you know 60% of our max [87:26] heart rate we want to do that for you [87:28] know 200 to 300 minutes per week which I [87:31] know sounds like a lot the the [87:33] recommendations 150 minutes I think it's [87:35] a little I don't think that's enough [87:37] frankly but um if we're talking about [87:39] optimizing heart variability that would [87:41] be the protocol we want to strength [87:44] train a few times a week that would be a [87:47] way to maximize interplay between the [87:49] cardiovascular and the nervous system [87:51] right there is definitely way to train [87:52] to do that and what I just described [87:54] will kind of get you there roughly so we [87:56] talked about time restricted eating or [87:59] stopping our feeding with know three [88:00] times before uh three hours before we [88:02] intend to sleep huge um no alcohol [88:05] obviously again if we're interested in [88:07] optimizing our ability to adapt to [88:10] environmental stress that is and improve [88:11] our Harry variability um really [88:14] important we we we obstain um for [88:16] alcohol and then I would say you know [88:19] spending sufficient time in bed is be [88:22] really important that is not [88:23] accumulating uh sleep [88:25] debt what about having friends yes [88:28] connection you know folks being around [88:30] individuals who support your values um [88:34] is absolutely essential we talked a [88:37] little about exercise there but there's [88:39] also just like the general sedentary of [88:42] Our Lives I I I was looking at some [88:44] research a couple of years ago which I [88:46] included in my first book which shows [88:49] that we're get in the Western World [88:50] we're getting increasingly more sedent [88:52] it's kind of like this downward graph [88:54] that just shows every year people move [88:57] less because we've got Ubers now and we [88:59] have we're working more in offices and [89:01] we're working even more from home now [89:04] and we're optimizing activity out of our [89:07] lives and surely that has an implication [89:10] for heart variability as well there's no [89:12] question that sedentary Behavior you [89:14] know I think where we go wrong is we [89:15] think I can wake up and work out for an [89:18] hour and then that gives me license to [89:20] sit for the rest of the day but but we [89:22] know that for individuals who are [89:23] sitting for more than 4 hours in a row [89:27] so Consolidated sitting for 4our [89:31] blocks um is associated with increased [89:34] mortality rates so four hours of [89:37] sedentary Behavior which you know [89:39] Consolidated right so the ideal protocol [89:42] if we want to um you know basically uh [89:46] improve all these parameters of Health [89:48] that we're talking about specifically [89:49] card variability you want to break up [89:51] your sedentary time so every you know [89:54] half an hour to an hour you'd want to [89:56] get up move around for 5 minutes or so [89:59] and then get back to your [90:00] work in 2020 you wrote an article where [90:04] you offered five ways to improve our HRV [90:06] and HRV as I say is super important [90:08] because it's linked to all of these [90:09] Health markers it's linked to immunity [90:11] it's linked to all of these things that [90:12] really really matter um and one of the [90:15] there was a couple of sort of surprising [90:16] suggestions you made in that article one [90:18] of them was about practicing [90:20] gratitude yeah I mean I think I think [90:23] what the research says is that [90:26] actually receiving gratitude um has the [90:31] most uh powerful effect on our on our [90:35] mood and our feelings of well-being so [90:39] if I were to receive a thank you letter [90:40] for example and really internalize that [90:43] like that's going to have the biggest [90:45] long-term effect on my feelings of of of [90:48] well-being um but there's also great [90:51] resarch that shows giving um thanks as [90:54] well and expressing gratitude um also [90:56] has you know lots of positive [90:59] implications for our psychological [91:00] functioning and I guess this brings into [91:02] Focus the psychological element of [91:05] health and HRV and all and sleep and all [91:08] these things that we've talked about [91:09] like Stress and Anxiety you're currently [91:12] finishing a PhD in Psychology right [91:14] that's right [91:15] yes and again it links to something that [91:18] was written in that article as well [91:19] where you talk about a growth mindset [91:21] again that's psychology yes why does [91:25] this matter this growth mindset thing [91:27] this you know gratitude psychology why [91:29] does that matter yeah I mean it I think [91:31] it relates to just our you know whether [91:34] or not we feel that growth in the future [91:38] is [91:39] possible you know do we do we feel like [91:41] we have the potential to grow and to [91:45] learn and do we feel optimistic about [91:48] the future I mean that's really what [91:50] growth mindset is right right and and [91:52] you can imagine if you don't feel [91:54] optimistic about the future you don't [91:55] feel like growth is possible you feel [91:58] really Limited in your capabilities [92:00] right and you feel Limited in your your [92:02] happiness so I think that yeah there's I [92:06] think a really strong connection between [92:09] you know believing that the the future [92:11] is is positive and and that is going to [92:14] manifest in in in a measure like heart [92:17] variability you know it's going to it's [92:18] going to manifest [92:20] physiologically I there's this um author [92:23] called sha Anker oh Shan Aker yeah from [92:26] Harvard his name yeah AER he does a lot [92:29] of work on this idea of growth mindset [92:31] as a way to sort of counteract stress [92:33] which I find fascinating he does yeah he [92:35] found that doctors in a positive State [92:36] of Mind perform diagnoses 19% faster and [92:40] more accurately than doctors that are [92:42] neutral and he also found that positive [92:44] employees are 31% more [92:47] productive than negative [92:50] employees [92:52] yeah and I and I and I think our life [92:55] circumstance you know kind of certainly [92:58] can tilt us in one direction or another [93:01] but I I do think that we have a a [93:03] genetic predisposition to you know the [93:06] cup is uh half empty versus half full [93:08] you know I think there's something to to [93:10] that to that research and that [93:11] literature but all the things that we're [93:13] talking [93:15] about I think provide a foundation right [93:19] so a lot of the physiological stuff that [93:20] we're talking about this Cadian stuff [93:22] the sleep stuff the recovery stuff right [93:24] the Stress Management you know when [93:25] we're eating our food the how we're [93:27] training right all of these things kind [93:29] of position us to I think [93:34] leverage our our mindset um in in a way [93:39] that is the most productive right when [93:42] we're not kind of taking care of these [93:43] physiological things you know we don't [93:45] feel like we have purpose talked about [93:46] this we don't feel the skills and [93:47] resources to do the things that we want [93:49] to do in our life um it's really hard to [93:51] talk ourselves into a better future [93:53] right um and and and it's it's hard to [93:56] kind of move around our our mindset but [93:58] if we can just kind of attend to some of [93:59] these physiological and psychological [94:01] things we can actually start to take [94:02] more control of our mindset so I think a [94:05] lot of times this is I think frustrating [94:07] in the field of psychology we we talk [94:09] about how we talk about grow mindset [94:11] without actually talking about the [94:13] behaviors that actually underpin that [94:16] you know and and and that's I think a [94:18] lot of the work that I'm trying to do is [94:19] is that you know there's there's these [94:22] core influences physiological and [94:24] psychological that if we can understand [94:28] and build an infrastructure to allow [94:32] those those kind of behaviors to come to [94:35] life in our every day we're in a [94:37] position then to have like a growth [94:40] mindset right but without that that that [94:43] Foundation of good habits and good [94:45] behaviors good habits and behaviors it's [94:48] hard to believe that the the future is [94:50] is bright brings into question something [94:52] that I know a lot of people think when [94:53] they hear conversations like this they [94:55] think oh but I just don't have the [94:56] motivation Christen you know and there's [94:58] this ongoing conversation about which [95:01] comes first is it the action or is it [95:03] the motivation there's clearly in my [95:06] life I've seen this clear two-way link [95:08] by through what I do and how I feel and [95:10] how I feel and what I do yeah so if I [95:12] want to influence the other I do the [95:14] other I if I want to feel great I have [95:16] to focus on my actions and if I want to [95:19] act great I have I focus on how I feel [95:21] for example you know what I mean [95:23] um cuz people hear you know the [95:25] discipline that you practice in your [95:26] life and they go God you must have so [95:28] much motivation you know the people that [95:31] are watching junk TV at 3:00 a.m. in the [95:34] morning and eating junk food at 3: a. in [95:35] the morning they look at you and go just [95:37] got just she just got something I just [95:39] haven't got so I can't relate you know I [95:42] can't become a [95:44] Christian what is the message those [95:46] people need to hear the ones that feel [95:48] like motivation is their problem m [95:52] I mean I think it's [95:54] understanding how do we actually produce [95:58] energy right because that's [96:02] really at the core of what motivation is [96:04] right it's it's it's it's the energy [96:07] right and and a couple things influence [96:11] our energy production or put a ceiling [96:13] on [96:14] motivation it's called um well it's [96:17] appraisal so how we um how relevant we [96:21] think a task [96:23] is [96:25] and and then how we are perceiving the [96:28] task is it hard is it easy is it [96:31] challenging right so appraisal and [96:35] perception are going to work together to [96:37] put a ceiling on your potential for [96:40] motivation okay so appraisal I hear is [96:43] being like the why like why this matters [96:46] totally that's how relevant is it to me [96:48] so interesting because in my book I [96:49] wrote this thing called the discipline [96:50] equation and I think [96:52] you know I think you've kind of [96:53] summarized it a little bit there yeah [96:55] yeah yeah definitely I mean this is well [96:56] understood right in the field of of [96:57] psychology and and Physiology that yeah [97:00] you you we all have potential motivation [97:03] and the and the two things that move [97:04] around is how we appraise a situation [97:06] and how we perceive it so in my [97:08] discipline equation this is the equation [97:09] discipline equals the strength of one's [97:12] y plus the reward of the pursuit minus [97:15] the cost of the pursuit perfect I love [97:18] that yeah that's beautiful um and and I [97:20] think that would hold that holds up [97:22] clearly um book yeah than glad [97:26] you said that yeah no it for sure but I [97:30] I think and I I I would I say you know [97:33] one of the reasons why I think my teams [97:35] were always so successful is I just [97:37] deployed that principle over and over [97:39] again in my environment how I helped my [97:41] my athletes understand the why their [97:43] personal why like why were they showing [97:45] up every single day to the field how is [97:49] that attached to their individual values [97:51] not my team values to their personal [97:54] values right and then I made the [97:57] environment challenging right so they [97:59] get get excited about the work that [98:01] they're doing every day right and I try [98:03] to do that on an individual level and [98:06] that's why a lot of teams underperform [98:08] frankly is that they don't leaders don't [98:11] understand the relationship between um [98:13] appraisal and perception like I [98:15] literally think if you can understand [98:16] that and you've written a book about it [98:18] right so people can read this book and [98:19] if leaders can adopt that and understand [98:23] the importance of setting of creating an [98:25] infrastructure where you tap into the [98:28] person's individual values and how that [98:31] relates to the task you have motivation [98:34] like you will you will increase the [98:36] ceiling for potential motivation it [98:39] makes me think in some ways that people [98:41] listening to this right now are without [98:43] knowing it in a upward [98:46] reinforcing spiral towards the person [98:49] they want to be or in a downward [98:52] reinforcing spiral away from the person [98:54] they want to be because if if you're [98:56] showing up and acting in the right way [98:58] then you're going to release energy [98:59] you're going to feel good which means [99:00] you have a better chance of showing up [99:02] and acting in the right way and that [99:03] Spiral goes upwards but if you're [99:05] showing up in the wrong way it means [99:07] you're probably going to be a little bit [99:08] depressed you're you're going to be have [99:10] a lot of circadian disruption you're not [99:11] going to feel great which means you have [99:13] less chance of showing up in the right [99:14] way the energy low energy all of those [99:17] things it's a downward spiral so if [99:19] you're in that downward spiral I would I [99:21] would guess the way the only way to [99:24] break out of it I mean is you listen to [99:26] a podcast but that's not going to help [99:27] you break out of it alone it's gonna [99:29] start with you T making one different [99:32] decision yeah at one point and that can [99:34] be a tiny tiny tiny decision yeah and [99:37] and I think that's like a lot of the [99:38] work I I'm doing right now is trying to [99:40] figure out what is that actual taxonomy [99:41] though if someone really wants to make [99:43] change where do they start where did [99:46] they start you know I'm going to say it [99:48] sleep wake time like wake up at the same [99:51] time every day and get as much as light [99:53] as humanly possible within that will set [99:57] the tone for the rest of the day and put [100:00] you in a position where you can fall [100:01] asleep at a regular time night after [100:04] night like you have to address that the [100:06] second thing is I would consolidate your [100:09] eating window you know keep it within a [100:11] 10-hour time frame eat all of your [100:13] calories within a 10-hour time frame and [100:15] try to leave a couple hour buffer [100:17] between when you attend to sleep and [100:18] your last calorie like just those two [100:20] things things are pretty low barrier to [100:23] entry right and that will increase mood [100:27] you'll improve your body composition [100:29] right just by naring that window you [100:31] will you know all the effects that we [100:34] talked about in terms of the cardio [100:36] metabolic effects from just stabilizing [100:38] sleep wake time the mood effects from [100:39] stabilizing sleep awake time that will [100:41] back you into having a better [100:43] relationship with light right which we [100:45] know light is at the core of human [100:48] health and [100:49] functioning so those two things I would [100:51] I would say is the place to start um and [100:53] there and I think the downstream effect [100:56] of just those two things is is is pretty [100:59] profound and then I you know I think in [101:01] in parallel just figuring out who who do [101:04] you actually want to be in the [101:05] world like what is your what do you want [101:07] your identity to be you know and I and I [101:10] don't know that [101:12] people actually think enough about that [101:14] you there's so many distractions in this [101:17] world I mean we can just drown ourselves [101:20] with just stuff that's is just coming at [101:23] us content all the time and we we can't [101:26] discern we haven't done the work to be [101:29] able to discern what what is what is [101:32] actually important to us like we don't [101:33] have the capacity to direct our thoughts [101:35] and our attention in a way that's [101:37] rewarding right because we we haven't [101:39] built that skill or that muscle so I [101:43] think like getting that under control is [101:44] another way is is like really figuring [101:46] out what is my relationship with [101:49] technology like what do I want that to [101:51] be you know how do I actually want to [101:52] spend [101:54] my my my [101:56] time have you written that down for sure [102:00] absolutely and what format does that [102:02] take or what medium did you use is that [102:04] a vision board or something oh just like [102:06] yeah pen and paper I mean I have yeah I [102:08] mean I Evernote you know I I I revisit [102:11] this quarterly um you know what do I [102:14] value what do I care about how do I want [102:16] to spend my time and that has been the [102:19] basis for which I make all my decisions [102:21] what does your Evan note say oh I mean [102:23] in terms of like my how I think well I [102:26] have my list of of values right that it [102:29] always starts there right is what are [102:30] your values so growth impact tolerance [102:34] compassion and presence um those are my [102:37] top five values and I and I I meditate [102:40] on those I whenever I you know I'll look [102:42] for I have some of my favorite authors [102:45] that have written extensively about all [102:47] those different things like you know [102:49] James Baldwin on compassion and [102:50] tolerance and um um Ein ran on on impact [102:55] and and growth I I love her work but [102:57] yeah I mean I think really connecting to [103:00] what do those beliefs and values [103:04] actually look like in action right if I [103:06] don't know what what what growth looks [103:10] like if I don't know what tolerance [103:11] looks like in action how do I actually [103:14] play that out in my in in my in my [103:16] day-to-day right so you have to you have [103:18] to write about it you have to [103:19] internalize it and then have to practice [103:21] that behavior right so in in my Evernote [103:24] is it's I have a kind of like what does [103:26] this look like in action like what are [103:28] the things that I can do that I can [103:30] practice to live these values and then [103:33] it's having an outlet for those things [103:35] what what kind of things do I need to do [103:37] you know like my PhD that's not a goal I [103:40] don't have any goals like goals are [103:42] total BS in my view it's it's like [103:45] living your values like the P my PhD [103:47] allows me to live my values of of growth [103:50] and impact right if if I want to be if I [103:52] want to impact Health at scale I need to [103:55] have the credibility I need to know how [103:56] to run experiments I need to be a [103:59] scientist right and and so it's not yeah [104:04] the I'm reaching this goal of getting a [104:06] PhD but it's allowing me to live my [104:08] values of growth and [104:09] impact and and I think that's where [104:12] folks kind of get it wrong is they're [104:14] like I want to run a 10K and then what [104:16] happens after you run the 10K and and I [104:19] use that principle in in my life like [104:21] I'm not it's it's like I'm always just [104:24] trying to live my values and I and I and [104:26] I don't evaluate success on like [104:29] achieving something it it's all about my [104:33] scorecard is am I living my values to my [104:36] fullest like that to me is a win and [104:40] that's how I evaluated my environment [104:42] when I was coaching collegiately it was [104:44] like are we living our [104:47] values and when you do that you you kind [104:49] of always you always win you [104:53] know and I it has a you know kind of [104:56] second order effect in terms of how you [104:57] think about competition right like [104:59] that's another area where like I don't [105:03] compete I stopped competing a decade and [105:06] a half ago like we wouldn't even like [105:08] our when you know my team at Princeton [105:11] like these are just little things but [105:12] when we talk about going back to like in [105:15] infrastructure to support your values [105:17] like we didn't even list our opponents [105:19] like I didn't want want them thinking [105:21] about how I don't want them like [105:24] changing how they acted throughout the [105:26] week how they trained the quality what [105:29] they did behaviorally based on our [105:31] opponent that didn't matter right if you [105:33] want to perform [105:35] consistently you need to you know show [105:38] up every single day with quality right [105:41] and and being willing to apply yourself [105:44] in a way that um is going to you know [105:50] create the output um that leads to the [105:54] kind of quality that allows you to [105:55] replicate you know performance levels [105:58] and it's it's about Learning and [106:00] Development and it wasn't about an [106:02] opponent right and that's why that's why [106:03] teams [106:04] underperform right that's why [106:06] individuals underperform is they've got [106:08] this arbitrary kind of metric that [106:10] they're or like team that they want to [106:12] beat that they're focused on right or [106:14] person that they want to be that they're [106:15] focused on instead of looking okay what [106:17] is my bar like and and going back to [106:20] question am I actually living my [106:22] values I think everything kind of works [106:24] itself out if you can just do [106:28] that Kristen we have a closing tradition [106:30] on this podcast where the last guest [106:31] leaves a question for the next guest not [106:32] knowing who they're going to be leaving [106:33] it for the question that has been left [106:37] for [106:38] you what is the last thing that you [106:42] would say and I imagine the context [106:45] there and this is just me taking a guess [106:47] is that if there was a last thing that [106:49] you had to say what is the last thing [106:51] that you would say I think figure out [106:53] who you want to be in the [106:54] world and [106:57] then set up your life so you can be that [107:01] person Kristen thank you so incredibly [107:04] inspiring in so many ways I you know I [107:06] would I would promote whoop but I feel [107:09] like you already have um just by being [107:11] so inspiring so smart so wise and that's [107:15] I mean everything that whoop is in a [107:16] nutshell [107:19] um there's so many thank yous that I [107:21] want to give you for so many different [107:23] reasons but I think the most important [107:25] thank you that I'll give you is for both [107:28] the hundreds and thousands of lives that [107:31] your work has nudged in a better [107:33] Direction and transformed in many cases [107:35] but also for the millions and millions [107:39] and hundreds of millions of lives that [107:41] you're going to nudge in a much better [107:43] Direction over the course of the next [107:45] decade and decade and decade and decade [107:48] um it's a a tremendous service to [107:51] humanity having the potential service to [107:55] humanity having the skills the [107:56] storytelling abilities the wisdom and [107:59] that deep innate sense of drive that you [108:01] have and it is a service to humanity [108:04] that Humanity increasingly unfortunately [108:06] needs um and I'm so excited to to watch [108:09] that play out for you I I deeply believe [108:11] this is the very start of your journey [108:12] in many respects even though you're [108:14] several decades into the work that you [108:16] do but there something tells me that [108:18] this is just the beginning so Kristen [108:19] thank you for your generosity thank you [108:20] for your wisdom and thank you for your [108:21] time appreciate you I appreciate you so [108:23] much Stephen thank you for all your good [108:27] [Music] [108:28] work as you guys know I'm a big fan of [108:31] hu I'm an investor in the company and [108:32] they sponsor this podcast and what I've [108:34] done for you is I've put together for [108:36] those people especially that haven't yet [108:37] tried H but for all of those also that [108:40] have but haven't tried my favorite [108:42] products I put together what I call the [108:44] hu Steven bundle which is a selection of [108:47] my favorite products from hu including [108:49] the Black Edition salted caramel flavor [108:51] which is super high in protein and has [108:53] 17 servings per container the bundle [108:55] also comes with their ready to drink [108:57] product which is one of my all-time [108:59] favorite products from hu it is [109:00] convenient it is nutritionally complete [109:02] and on those days when my life just gets [109:04] very very busy it is my go-to product [109:06] you've got your hu bars which are [109:08] absolutely gorgeous and in there you [109:09] also get this incredible t-shirt which [109:11] is apparently according to lots of my [109:13] friends the best quality t-shirt they've [109:15] ever had and I don't really know why but [109:16] there's something about this t-shirt [109:17] that's incredibly flattering this hule [109:19] shaker the link is in the description [109:21] below in this podcast episode wherever [109:23] you're listening to it there'll be a [109:25] Stevens bundle link and check it [109:27] out do you need a podcast to listen to [109:30] next we've discovered that people who [109:31] liked this episode also tend to [109:34] absolutely love another recent episode [109:36] we've done so I've linked that episode [109:38] in the description below I know you'll [109:40] enjoy [109:47] [Music] [109:49] it m