Adam Grant Rejects Brainstorming and Perfectionism to Drive Potential
The Diary Of A CEO
Sustained performance requires challenging defaults, forming challenge networks, and shifting from group brainstorming to independent idea generation.
AI-assisted summary of Adam Grant: 10 CRAZY Stats About Why Only 2% of the People Becomes Successful! — original source. Check the original for full context.
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## Background This episode was published on YouTube by the channel The Diary Of A CEO on February 12, 2024. Hosted by Steven Bartlett, the episode features organizational psychologist Adam Grant discussing strategies for rethinking work, productivity, success, and unlocking hidden potential. The description highlights Grant's book 'Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things' and references related conversations on work and productivity.
## TL;DR Adam Grant explores the psychological mechanisms behind success, creative originality, and human potential, debunking common myths surrounding perfectionism, child prodigies, and group brainstorming. He highlights how moderate procrastination can enhance creative problem-solving and explains how questioning default settings—such as choosing alternative web browsers—signals proactivity. Furthermore, Grant emphasizes the importance of building 'challenge networks' of disagreeable givers, thinking like a scientist to keep beliefs flexible, and taking action before feeling confident to overcome self-doubt.
## Atmosphere & style The conversation carries an intellectually stimulating, candid, and deeply reflective atmosphere, seamlessly blending rigorous scientific data with personal anecdotes. Steven Bartlett and Adam Grant engage in a dynamic, mutually curious dialogue where complex organizational research is unpacked with wit, clarity, and practical insights. Listeners experience a grounded yet inspiring journey that continuously challenges conventional wisdom about achievement, mindset, and personal growth.
## Key takeaways - [24:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1444s) Perfectionism is a major risk factor for burnout and hinders real-world performance, while true excellence relies on calibrated target scores rather than flawless execution. - [16:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=964s) Procrastination is often an emotional regulation issue caused by avoiding negative feelings like fear, boredom, or confusion, rather than sheer laziness. - [19:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1143s) Questioning defaults—such as actively downloading alternative browsers like Chrome or Firefox over default options—signals higher proactivity, resourcefulness, and performance. - [24:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1444s) Child prodigies rarely become adult geniuses because their rapid mastery of existing rules deter them from taking the creative risks required to redefine fields. - [38:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=2317s) Birth order shapes behavioral tendencies, with firstborns scoring slightly higher on standard IQ tests while later-born siblings exhibit a greater willingness to take risks. - [47:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=2821s) Successful entrepreneurs are not reckless thrill-seekers; they systematically focus on mitigating downside risk while taking calculated moonshots. - [51:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=3084s) Groups frequently fall victim to the 'Babble Effect,' selecting leaders based on talking volume and surface confidence rather than actual competence. - [58:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=3518s) High familiarity and early success can cause cognitive entrenchment; leaders must intentionally bring in 'disagreeable givers' and challenge networks to prevent complacency. - [01:09:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4156s) Traditional group brainstorming yields fewer and lower-quality ideas than individual work due to production blocking and conformity pressure; 'brainwriting' eliminates these barriers. - [01:13:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4411s) Early talent is a poor predictor of long-term achievement compared to character skills, intrinsic drive, and learning to take action before feeling fully confident. - [01:20:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4842s) To receive actionable constructive guidance rather than superficial praise or empty criticism, individuals should ask for 'advice' rather than 'feedback.' - [01:30:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=5440s) Adopting a scientific mindset—treating beliefs as hypotheses and decisions as experiments—helps separate identity from opinions and enables continuous learning.
## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=0s) Rethinking Success and Hidden Potential
The episode opens with high-energy highlights re-examining deeply ingrained beliefs about performance, teamwork, and personal achievement. Adam Grant, organizational psychologist and bestselling author, emphasizes that his core mission is studying "how to make work not suck" while guiding individuals to unlock their true potential. Through a series of quick, provocative research teasers, Grant dispels common workplace myths:
* **Perfectionism** is not a prerequisite for greatness, but rather a major risk factor for burnout. * **Birth order dynamics** show that while firstborns tend to score higher on IQ tests, later-born siblings demonstrate a significantly higher willingness to take risks. * **Procrastination** is rarely driven by an avoidance of hard work; instead, it is rooted in emotional regulation and problem-framing dynamics. * **Brainstorming groups** routinely underperform compared to individuals working independently. Research demonstrates that solitary idea generation yields both a higher volume and superior quality of ideas before group collaboration occurs. * **Imposter syndrome** as a persistent identity is surprisingly rare; most people experience transient "imposter thoughts," which can actually yield distinct performance advantages. * **Tech habits and persistence:** Data from over 50,000 individuals reveals that employees using alternative browsers like Chrome or Firefox consistently outperform and outlast those who stick with default browsers like Safari or Internet Explorer, reflecting a willingness to challenge default choices.
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[02:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=136s) Finding Happiness, Meaning, and Success
Adam Grant defines his broader academic and professional purpose as translating complex social science into actionable insights that cultivate clarity, critical thinking, meaning, and true success. Having earned tenure as a professor at a young age, Grant was challenged by his students to move beyond academic journals and share his ideas through books.
When reflecting on his childhood, Grant recalls being an intensely focused seven-year-old completely immersed in video games. After a marathon eight-hour Nintendo session left him visibly frustrated, his mother called the local newspaper to warn parents about the perceived dangers of video games, leading to a featured article with a photo of a young Grant. Looking back through a scientific lens, Grant notes that modern research refutes the belief that video games "fry kids' brains." Instead, moderate gaming is associated with improved self-control, enhanced working memory, grit, and emotional resilience built through overcoming repeated challenges.
- **Research Finding:** Moderate video game play in children is correlated with stronger executive functioning, working memory, and resilience against failure. - **Career Catalyst:** Grant’s career shifted toward writing for broader audiences in 2011 after his students urged him to publish accessible work following his tenure milestone at the Wharton School.
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[05:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=306s) Redefining the Rules of Success
Discussing his early career trajectory, Grant reflects on how his mindset evolved from simply "beating the game" within existing systems to fundamentally changing the rules of how work and success are defined. His foundational work aimed to dismantle the traditional view that self-serving, hyper-competitive behavior is required to reach the top. Instead, his research proved that generous "givers"—those who help others without demanding immediate returns—often outperform selfish "takers" in the long run.
Rather than waiting to achieve monumental success before giving back, individuals who share knowledge, make valuable connections, offer honest feedback, and solve problems for peers build resilient, highly supportive networks that accelerate long-term achievement.
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[07:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=456s) Givers vs. Takers: The Cristiano Ronaldo Debates
The conversation transitions into sports and team dynamics, framing a debate between the host and his friends regarding football icon Cristiano Ronaldo. While acknowledging Ronaldo's extraordinary individual talent, Grant and the host discuss how self-centered superstars can ultimately create a net negative impact on collective team success.
Grant points to empirical studies on NBA basketball teams to illustrate high-interdependence dynamics. The data demonstrates that teams with a higher density of self-centered or narcissistic players fail to improve over the course of a season. A single "ball hog" or dominant individual who prioritizes personal stats over team performance prevents the collective group from flourishing—a stark contrast to leaders like Lionel Messi, who focus on elevating everyone around them.
- **NBA Team Study:** High concentrations of narcissistic or self-centered players correlate with a failure to improve over the course of a sports season due to disrupted collaboration. - **The "Ronaldo Effect":** Data tracking Ronaldo's career post-Real Madrid suggests that several teams experienced a statistical decline in overall collective performance relative to their pre-existing standings after his arrival.
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[10:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=641s) Defining "Originals" and the Execution Gap
Grant defines an "Original" as someone who goes beyond merely questioning the status quo; they take proactive initiative to build a viable, better alternative. Ideation without execution is described as mere "hallucination."
To illustrate how easy it is to miss transformative ideas, Grant shares personal anecdotes from his college years:
* **1999 E-Group:** Grant co-founded an early online group connecting an eighth of his incoming college freshman class before arriving on campus. Upon arriving at university, the group shut down the platform, reasoning that since everyone lived near each other physically, an online social network was redundant. * **2000 Dorm-Room Platform:** Grant's college roommate spent an entire night coding an online yearbook platform designed for university students to share profiles and organize events—only to abandon the project days later. A few years later, Mark Zuckerberg launched Facebook in an adjacent house.
Grant notes that the primary differentiator between casual dreamers and true originals lies not in generating the initial idea, but in sustained iteration, testing, and execution.
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[14:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=877s) Procrastination, Creativity, and the "Precrastinator" Trap
Revisiting common assumptions about productivity, Grant shares how his former PhD student, Jihae Shin, challenged his worldview on procrastination. As a self-described "precrastinator"—someone compelled to tackle tasks immediately upon assignment—Grant initially scoffed at the idea that delaying work could yield better results.
Subsequent surveys and controlled laboratory experiments revealed an inverted U-shaped relationship between procrastination and creativity:
* **Extreme Precrastinators:** Suffer from reduced creativity because they rush to execute the very first idea that comes to mind rather than considering alternative approaches. * **Extreme Procrastinators:** Suffer from poor performance due to inadequate time and effort invested in execution. * **Moderate Procrastinators:** Demonstrate the highest levels of creative problem-solving.
Grant explains the underlying psychological mechanisms: moderate delay allows ideas to incubate in the subconscious mind, giving the brain time to connect disparate concepts and reframe problems. However, this incubation effect only occurs when individuals are **intrinsically motivated** by the problem at hand; procrastinating out of sheer boredom or apathy yields no creative benefit.
- **Precrastination Definition:** The psychological urge to complete tasks as quickly as possible, often at the expense of thorough consideration or creative refinement. - **Key Condition for Creative Incubation:** Procrastination enhances creative problem-solving only when the person genuinely cares about the task and keeps it active in the back of their mind while stepping away.
[16:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=964s) Procrastination as Emotional Avoidance and a Tool for Creativity
Steve Bartlett kicks off this segment by sharing his own personal struggle with procrastination. He notices two distinct modes in his own life: either he hits a wall on a piece of work and finds himself blindly grabbing his phone to scroll Instagram because the task has become psychologically intimidating, or he paces around the house doing dishes and chores while mulling over a complex problem. He admits that despite these habits, he treats procrastination as a tool rather than a pure defect.
Adam Grant responds by normalizing procrastination, clarifying that the goal isn't to encourage people to slack off, but to recognize that delaying work can be a natural component of the creative process that occasionally yields superior ideas. Citing research led by Fuchsius Sirois, Grant busts the common myth that procrastination is caused by laziness or a refusal to exert effort. Instead, procrastination is an emotional regulation problem. People avoid tasks that trigger negative, unpleasant feelings like frustration, confusion, boredom, or anxiety, often rooted in a fear of failure or inadequacy. Grant recommends auditing the specific tasks we habitually put off to pinpoint and address the underlying negative emotions behind them.
Grant reveals that his own major struggle is with editing and revising his writing. While he loves drafting rough ideas and framing evidence into stories, tweaking individual sentences bores him. To overcome this, he turned editing into an engaging creative game: he began rewriting dull paragraphs in the distinct stylistic voices of his favorite authors, such as Stephen King or the poet Maggie Smith, to force the process to become concrete and fun again.
* **Fuchsius Sirois's Research:** Demonstrates that procrastination stems from avoiding negative emotions (fear, boredom, anxiety, confusion) rather than an aversion to hard work. * **Adam's Writing Trick:** Rewriting paragraphs in the stylistic voices of Stephen King or Maggie Smith to make the tedious process of editing engaging again.
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[19:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1143s) Questioning the Defaults: What Your Web Browser Says About You
Steve shifts the conversation to an insightful takeaway from one of Adam’s famous TED Talks regarding internet browsers. Surprised to realize during the talk that he was using Google Chrome, Steve asks Adam to explain the underlying science behind what a person's choice of web browser reveals about their proactivity and workplace performance.
Adam recounts attending a conference where researcher Michael Housman presented data collected from over 50,000 workers across various industries. Housman tracked employee performance alongside automatically recorded background data and discovered a surprising correlation: employees who used Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox performed better on the job and stayed with their companies significantly longer than those using Safari or Internet Explorer.
Adam explains that the browser itself is not a magic performance enhancer; rather, it serves as a signal of a person's underlying initiative. Because Safari and Internet Explorer come pre-installed as the default software on Apple and Microsoft machines, using Chrome or Firefox requires a user to reject the status quo, ask if a better option exists, and take the initiative to download an alternative. In the workplace, employees who question defaults in small ways tend to be the same people who craft better ways to do their jobs, innovate workflows, and actively create work environments they enjoy staying in.
> "It's not about the browser, it's about the resourcefulness to say you want to be the kind of person who questions the default and asks if there's a better way."
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[21:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1312s) Characteristics of "Originals" and the Myth of Child Prodigies
When Steve asks Adam to identify prominent "Originals" of our time in the tech and business space, Grant highlights Elon Musk. Despite acknowledging valid criticisms regarding Musk's leadership, communication on Twitter/X, and decision-making, Grant points out that Musk exemplifies an Original: he relentlessly challenges the status quo, takes massive initiative, and pursues radical visions—such as building reusable rockets at SpaceX (a concept NASA had previously overlooked) and driving the transition toward electric vehicles.
This leads to a discussion on whether groundbreaking innovators are simply born as child prodigies. Grant disputes this notion based on extensive social science evidence. While society romanticizes child prodigies, empirical research shows that most child prodigies do not go on to become adult geniuses or revolutionary innovators.
Grant explains that child prodigies excel at rapid learning and mastering established rules through repetition—such as a four-year-old playing a Mozart sonata perfectly. However, practice produces perfection, not originality. Prodigies often fail to develop creative muscles because they receive continuous reinforcement for conforming to existing blueprints. Consequently, they avoid trial and error, rarely experience early failure, and lack the willingness to take the risks necessary to invent something entirely new.
* **Definition of an Original:** Someone who actively challenges the status quo and is relentless in executing a novel vision. * **The Prodigy Trap:** Mastery of existing rules through practice yields speed and precision, but deters individuals from embracing the failure required to create original work.
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[24:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1444s) Character Skills, Imperfectionism, and the Fallacy of Perfectionism
Grant explains that true adult geniuses and late bloomers succeed not through raw innate talent, but through crucial "character skills"—a set of capabilities that put principles into practice. High achievers act like sponges by absorbing information while filtering out harmful distractions, and they deliberately lean into discomfort rather than relying strictly on their strengths. Crucially, they operate as "imperfectionists" who strategically determine when high standards are required and when "good enough" is sufficient.
Steve and Adam explore why perfectionism is widely misused as a fake weakness in job interviews—much like Michael Scott’s famous quote from *The Office* ("I work too hard and care too much"). People treat perfectionism as a badge of honor, assuming it signifies high output and standards. However, research led by Thomas Curran in the UK demonstrates that perfectionism is primarily a major risk factor for burnout and does not translate into better real-world job performance.
While perfectionists often excel in school because exams have clear guidelines and predictable content that can be memorized, they struggle in the ambiguous real world. Driven by an intense fear of failure and mistake-making, perfectionists stick strictly to tasks where they know they can excel, avoiding the calculated risks required for real growth, adaptation, and career breakthroughs.
> "Perfectionists are good at school because they know exactly what's going to be on the test... The real world is much more ambiguous... perfectionists are terrified of failure... so they don't take enough risks."
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[27:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1648s) Urgency, Iteration, and Calibrating Target Scores
Steve brings up the element of urgency and speed in success, noting that perfectionism prevents people from launching products. He contrasts a perfectionist who stays stuck in their bedroom refining an idea with Mark Zuckerberg, who shipped a "good enough" early version of Facebook and iterated based on real-world market feedback. Adam agrees, citing Eric Ries's *The Lean Startup* principles and experiments showing that founders who run rapid experiments and pivot quickly achieve far greater success.
To illustrate how to break free from perfectionism, Grant shares his personal journey as an athlete. Standing too short for basketball and too slow for football, he took up springboard diving despite a fear of heights and a stiff posture that earned him the nickname "Frankenstein." Early on, his perfectionism stalled his progress: he spent entire practices obsessing over tiny adjustments to basic dives (trying to push a front dive pike from a 6.5 to a 7) instead of attempting higher degree-of-difficulty Dives.
Everything changed when his coach, Eric Best, informed him that a score of 10 in the rulebook does not stand for "perfection," but for "excellence." Realizing perfection was an illusion, Grant learned to establish explicit target scores calibrated to the importance of each goal. Today, Grant applies this framework directly to his work:
* **Target Score Framework:** * **Book Project (Target: 9/10):** Worth two years of intense effort and research, requiring maximum quality and polish. * **Instagram Post (Target: 6.5/10):** Requires just enough effort to be valuable and stay above the threshold of getting canceled, without burning precious time that yields diminishing returns. * **Eric Best's Diving Rule:** Olympic 10s signify "excellence," not flawless "perfection."
[31:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1894s) Investment, Impact, and Long-Term Value
Steven and Adam begin by comparing the reach and long-term impact of different content formats. While viral Instagram quotes offer immediate, fleeting bursts of dopamine and praise, they rarely create lasting personal value or lasting impact because others simply copy and repost them. In contrast, Adam notes that a standout TED Talk or an exceptional book creates enduring value: people still ask him questions about books he published a decade ago, whereas nobody remembers a social media post from a few years back. Podcasting sits somewhere in the middle—it offers intimacy and memorability through audio, but can still feel slightly more temporary than a book that fundamentally reshapes a person's worldview. Adam emphasizes evaluating effort based on maximum long-term impact rather than immediate reward, which is why he puts significantly more focus into writing.
[33:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=2007s) Leaning into Difficulty: Skill Power vs. Willpower
The discussion shifts to what enables certain individuals to lean into difficulty and embrace discomfort—a trait closely tied to long-term success. Adam stresses that choosing discomfort is not merely an innate personality trait, but a learnable skill. To illustrate this, he revisits Walter Mischel's famous "marshmallow test," noting that recent controversies and replications highlight how children from lower socioeconomic backgrounds often ate the marshmallow early because growing up in scarcity taught them that promises of future rewards could not be trusted. Crucially, the children who successfully delayed gratification didn't rely solely on sheer willpower; they used strategic "skill power"—such as sitting on their hands, covering their eyes, or squishing the marshmallow to make it unappealing.
Adam shares his own experience of overcoming a crippling fear of public speaking through gradual, repeated exposure after an early teaching feedback form noted his nervousness made students physically shake in their seats. Responding to Steven's curiosity about extreme figures like David Goggins or ultra-marathoner Russ Cook (who ran the entire length of Africa), Adam explains the psychology behind "learned industriousness": when hard effort and discomfort are consistently rewarded, being in uncomfortable situations takes on secondary reward properties through classical conditioning, making pushing past comfort self-reinforcing.
[38:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=2317s) Trauma, Resilience, and Scaffolding
Addressing the common perception that adversity and trauma drive people to become successful or unconventional, Adam cautions against falling for survivorship bias. While society observes successful individuals who overcame hardship, it often ignores those who were broken by it. However, psychological data shows that resilience is generally underestimated: rates of post-traumatic growth—where individuals report becoming stronger or better as a result of adversity—are actually more common than persistent post-traumatic stress disorder. Furthermore, resilience is not an isolated individual muscle, but depends heavily on "scaffolding"—a supportive network of parents, mentors, or coaches who believe in a person's potential and equip them with the tools to bounce forward.
[41:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=2472s) Sibling Dynamics, IQ, and Risk-Taking
When Steven asks how birth order influences personality and success, Adam opens with a strong disclaimer: birth order research contains many conflicting findings and overall small effect sizes across large samples. However, two consistent patterns emerge across rigorous studies: * **The Tutor Effect:** Firstborns score slightly higher on average in standard IQ tests than younger siblings. This is largely explained by the firstborns explaining and teaching concepts to their younger siblings, which deepens their own understanding. * **Risk-Taking in Laterborns:** Laterborns are statistically more willing to take risks and pursue unconventional paths. Frank Sulloway’s research on Major League Baseball brothers demonstrated that laterborn siblings were significantly more likely to attempt—and successfully execute—base steals compared to their older brothers.
Steven strongly resonates with these findings, sharing that his parents gave him far more freedom and fewer consequences by the time he was ten years old compared to his older sister, enabling him to experiment, start businesses young, and drop out of school. He jokes that his older brother Jason—an actuary who attended the London School of Economics—is a true genius compared to him, but Jason personally credited Steven's relaxed attitude toward risk with inspiring him to leave his corporate city job. Adam highlights two complementary reasons why laterborns lean into risk: the parental freedom that comes with experience, and the drive to carve out a unique niche when the "conventional achiever" role in the family has already been filled by an older sibling.
- Frank Sulloway’s study analyzed every pair of brothers in Major League Baseball, finding laterborns were much more likely to attempt and succeed at stealing bases. - Steven dropped out of university and slept on his brother Jason's sofa in London at age 18, which later inspired Jason to quit his actuary career and embrace risk.
[48:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=2921s) Debunking the Myth of the Risk-Taking Entrepreneur
The conversation transitions into how risk-taking is perceived in business. While popular culture depicts successful entrepreneurs as reckless thrill-seekers, Adam points out that his research in *Originals* debunks this assumption. Although risk-takers may be more likely to start companies, the most successful entrepreneurs do not actually love risk—they actively work to mitigate it.
[047:01] Calculated Risk-Taking and the Portfolio of Life
Original thinkers and successful entrepreneurs do not take reckless gambles; rather, they manage cautious risks by constantly figuring out how to reduce the downside while maximizing the upside. Living a life where you never take a risk is actually a fundamentally risky way to live. It is analogous to building an investment portfolio filled exclusively with safe, predictable mutual funds—you are actually safer when you maintain a balanced portfolio that combines cautious investments with a few risky ones. However, taking risks does not mean throwing caution to the wind or making foolish bets. Instead, it involves calculating the probability of an unproven idea succeeding and actively taking steps to raise those odds.
The popular narrative in movies and media often obscures this reality because people naturally want to frame themselves as courageous heroes when telling their own stories. Zooming in on the most successful entrepreneurs reveals that they carefully protect their downside before taking a leap.
* **Balancing upside and downside:** Successful innovators manage risk like a stock portfolio, blending safe anchors with high-upside ventures. * **The hero's journey fallacy:** Storytellers emphasize heroic, all-or-nothing risks, obscuring the meticulous risk-mitigation strategies behind real success.
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[048:14] Elon Musk, SpaceX, and the Trojan Horse Strategy
A personal dinner conversation with Elon Musk illustrates how extreme risk is actually managed through practical "side bets." When asked how he could gamble on the seemingly impossible goal of putting the first humans on Mars, Musk explained that he knew the initial probability was extremely low. Because of those dismal odds, reaching Mars was not the original operational mission for SpaceX; instead, the immediate goal was building a reusable rocket—a realistic objective that could secure government contracts and get people on board.
When pressed to quantify the odds of reaching Mars in his lifetime, Musk admitted that years prior he would have put the chances at around 7% or 8%. When he updated that figure to an 11% chance, he was genuinely energized by hitting "double digits." The core lesson is that Musk had a viable side business (reusable rockets) that sustained the company, making SpaceX work rather than relying solely on the ultimate moonshot.
"I'd probably say 11% chance now... Come on, that's double digits, like we're close to reality."
This tactic mirrors how messaging evolves for radical ventures like Neuralink. Early on, Neuralink was framed around the sci-fi concept of interfacing with AI to turn humans into cyborgs—a concept most people either did not understand or did not want. Over time, the messaging shifted toward helping individuals with disabilities regain mobility in their limbs, a mission that commands public support and funding.
* **Tempered Radicalism:** Coined by Deborah Meyerson and Maureen Scully, this term describes the practice of moderating an extreme, radical vision to make it familiar, plausible, and desirable to others. * **The Trojan Horse:** By packaging a radical long-term vision inside a practical, palatable application, innovators can bring skeptical stakeholders along for the journey.
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[051:24] Debunking Leadership Myths: The Babble Effect and Servant Leadership
In organizational psychology, one of the most persistent failures in building great team cultures is elevating the wrong people into leadership roles. This phenomenon is heavily influenced by the **Babble Effect**—the psychological finding that the person who talks the most in a meeting is the most likely to be selected as the leader. Organizations consistently mistake confidence for competence, rewarding individuals who dominate conversations even though they are often worse leaders who fail to include or learn from others.
"They're so obsessed with being the smartest person in the room that they fail to make the room smarter."
To build effective teams, organizations must instead elevate leaders who bring **generosity** and **humility** to the table:
* **Generosity (Servant Leadership):** Putting the collective mission above one's personal ego and actively working to make everyone else in the room better. * **Humility and Lifelong Learning:** Recognizing that every collaborator is a potential teacher who possesses lived experiences and expertise that the leader lacks.
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[053:38] Commitment Cultures, Culture Fit, and the Stagnation Trap
Research by James Baron and Michael Hannan tracking hundreds of startups over 15 years evaluated different organizational blueprints, comparing "Star Cultures" (hiring top individual geniuses) with "Commitment Cultures" (hiring primarily for mission alignment and cultural fit).
In the early stages, Commitment Cultures dominate: they are dramatically less likely to fail and significantly more likely to reach an IPO. However, a major paradox emerges after these companies go public—they tend to grow at much slower rates than their peers.
``` Startup Phase Post-IPO Phase [Commitment Culture] ---> [Homogeneity & Groupthink] • Low failure rate • Stagnant growth rates • High rate of IPO • Cognitive entrenchment ```
This deceleration occurs because hiring strictly for "culture fit" gradually weeds out diversity of thought, background, and perspective. When a company only hires people with similar personality traits, academic backgrounds, or skill sets, the team ends up looking at the exact same painting. Over-indexing on similarity creates groupthink, causing the organization to replicate past successes rather than innovating for the future.
* **Value alignment vs. Homogeneity:** Alignment on 3–5 core values is crucial, but demanding uniform personalities or backgrounds leads to creative stagnation.
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[055:45] How Team Culture Impacts Individual Performance
An individual's success is deeply tethered to their surrounding team culture and history. Research by Boris Groysberg on Wall Street security analysts revealed that when a top-performing "star" analyst leaves for a new firm, it takes them an average of **5 years** to recover their star-level performance. However, if the star analyst moves to the new firm alongside their existing team, they maintain their top performance from day one.
This interdependence appears across numerous fields:
* **Cardiac Surgeons:** A surgeon's patient mortality rate drops at Hospital A as they gain experience there. However, when that same surgeon operates at Hospital B later in the week, their performance resets as if they haven't practiced, because the new team doesn't know their routines, strengths, or weaknesses. * **Professional Basketball:** It takes 3 to 4 years of shared experience for NBA teams to maximize their chances of winning a championship, regardless of individual talent levels. * **NASA Flight Simulations:** In a study on flight crews, fatigued and sleep-deprived crews who had a shared history of flying together made fewer catastrophic errors than well-rested crews composed of strangers.
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[058:38] Overcoming Cognitive Entrenchment and Successful Complacency
While shared team history builds seamless execution, too much familiarity leads to predictability and **cognitive entrenchment**—a state where team members take foundational assumptions for granted and stop questioning outdated practices. Opponents or market competitors learn to predict their moves, which is why major disruptions frequently come from outsiders.
This poses a unique challenge for highly successful organizations (like top-ranked podcasts or industry leaders) that fall into a defensive posture, assuming that what got them to the top will keep them there. The best historical example of self-disruption occurred at Pixar around the year 2000 under Steve Jobs and Ed Catmull.
Despite riding high on the success of *Toy Story*, *A Bug's Life*, and *Monsters, Inc.*, Pixar recognized that periods of peak success provide the most slack capacity to disrupt oneself. To shake up their process, they brought in Brad Bird—an unproven director coming off the commercial box-office flop of *The Iron Giant*.
Bird pitched a radical, seemingly impossible animated concept (*The Incredibles*) that studio executives claimed would take 10 years and $500 million to produce. Frustrated by the resistance, Bird asked for the "pirates, black sheep, and disgruntled Misfits" within Pixar—the staff who were dissatisfied with the status quo. By assembling this group of Misfits, Bird completely overhauled Pixar's animation pipeline, completing the film in just three years and delivering a massive critical and commercial triumph.
* **Combatting Entrenchment:** Leaders must actively invite outside perspectives, rotate roles, or empower internal Misfits to challenge core assumptions before success breeds complacency.
[01:03:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=3782s) Disagreeable Givers and the Challenge Network
Adam Grant continues highlighting how Brad Bird brought *The Incredibles* to life at Pixar—a project that came in under budget, became the studio's most successful film to date, and won major awards. Grant finds two aspects of this story particularly extraordinary: first, the deliberate willingness to "break something that's not broken" to innovate; second, Bird's recognition that a specific form of disagreeableness is invaluable. Bird wasn't looking for cranky complainers, but rather people who felt like "racing cars stuck in a garage"—talented individuals being stifled and shot down, waiting for someone to open the garage door.
In Grant’s organizational framework, these people are classified as "disagreeable givers." Though they appear gruff, tough, and critical on the surface, their friction stems from deep care and a drive to improve the status quo rather than self-interest. Research shows that disagreeable givers who challenge others out of genuine care drive significantly more innovation. Grant advises leaders to complement their supportive mentors with a dedicated "challenge network"—a team of thoughtful, trusted critics who hold up a mirror to reveal blind spots. High-status leaders especially need this, as power naturally discourages honest feedback and leaves executives surrounded by agreeable "yes-people."
To cultivate a challenge network, leaders must explicitly acknowledge the people who push them and invite them to play that role. Grant shares how he approached his own harsh critics—people who tore apart his book drafts or told him to re-work TED Talks—to name them as founding members of his challenge network. He reassured them that honesty is the highest expression of loyalty and urged them never to hold back out of fear of hurting his feelings. Additionally, leaders can break down hesitation by criticizing themselves out loud first. Citing research co-authored with Constantinos Coutifaris and referencing Amy Edmondson’s work on psychological safety, Grant notes that when leaders publicly admit their weaknesses, their teams become significantly more willing to speak up with constructive feedback over time.
- **The Pixar Success Story**: *The Incredibles* came in under budget, won major awards, and became Pixar's highest-grossing film at the time. - **Support Network vs. Challenge Network**: While a support network offers encouragement, a challenge network provides thoughtful critique to expose blind spots. - **Honesty as Loyalty**: Re-framing candid critique as an act of loyalty eliminates the perceived trade-off between being supportive and being truthful. - **Research on Self-Criticism**: Studies by Grant and Constantinos Coutifaris demonstrate that leaders who publicly share their own flaws foster greater team candor a year later. - **Muppet Feedback**: Grant humorously recalls receiving student feedback comparing him to a Muppet (without specifying which one) and a military leader stating, *"I gained nothing from this session but I trust the instructor got useful insight."*
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[01:09:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4156s) Rethinking Brainstorming: Why Independent "Brainwriting" Wins
Shifting to group dynamics, host Steven Bartlett brings up Grant’s counterintuitive research regarding traditional brainstorming. Grant explains that decades of research consistently prove that bringing a group together to verbally brainstorm yields fewer and lower-quality ideas than if those same individuals had generated ideas alone in separate rooms.
Grant details the three primary psychological barriers that ruin group brainstorming:
1. **Production Blocking**: People cannot all talk simultaneously, causing valuable ideas to be forgotten or brushed aside while waiting for a turn. 2. **Ego Threat**: Individuals hold back their most unconventional thoughts out of fear of looking foolish in front of peers. 3. **Conformity Pressure (The HiPPO Effect)**: Group members quickly coalesce around the "Highest Paid Person's Opinion," abandoning divergent thinking in favor of agreement.
To overcome these barriers, psychologists advocate for "brainwriting" over traditional brainstorming. Writing serves as an active thinking tool rather than just a communication medium, forcing creators to test the logical rigor of their concepts rather than relying on raw charisma. While individuals produce broader variety—including both brilliant and terrible ideas—brainwriting leverages the wisdom of crowds to evaluate those ideas objectively. Everyone writes down their thoughts independently, submits them, and rates them anonymously or individually before group discussion begins. Bartlett and Grant explore practical ways to implement this, such as pairing team members up to pitch each other's written ideas to separate the creator's identity from the concept itself.
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[01:13:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4411s) Unlocking Hidden Potential and Overcoming Fear
Discussing the core thesis of his book, *Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things*, Grant explains why he was driven to write it. Research on world-class musicians, athletes, scientists, and artists demonstrates that early talent is a poor predictor of ultimate achievement; early teachers, coaches, and parents rarely foresaw their future greatness. What set these achievers apart early on was not innate skill, but unusual motivation, passion, and drive.
Grant’s perspective is deeply personal. He recounts his own history of starting from behind: he was a clumsy novice diver who eventually became a Junior Olympic National qualifier, a nervous public speaker who struggled to present, and a student who failed his university writing entrance exam only to become a bestselling author. Reflecting on Bartlett's question—whether potential is something discovered or actively created—Grant argues it is both. Capabilities can be expanded through deliberate effort, even when hard limits exist.
To illustrate how to unlock latent growth, Grant shares a story from his diving career. Terrified of both heights and extreme pain, he used to freeze at the end of the 3-meter springboard when attempting new, complex dives. During one painful practice, he stood frozen on the board for 45 minutes, wasting his own time, his teammates' time, and his coach's time. Finally, his coach, Eric, walked over and asked:
> "Adam, are you going to do this dive?"
Grant replied, "Eventually, yes." Coach Eric simply looked up and said:
> "Great. Then what are you waiting for?"
That simple question shattered Grant's paralysis. Ever since, whenever fear or hesitation threatens to stall his progress, Grant hears that voice in his head pushing him to step forward and unlock his hidden potential.
[01:17:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4653s) Building Confidence Through Action and Overcoming Impostor Thoughts
Adam Grant reflects on key moments in his life when he hesitated to step outside his comfort zone—such as when he was afraid to write his first book or when he was considering giving his first TED Talk. He notes that many people make the mistake of waiting for confidence before taking a leap. The reality, he explains, is that confidence is built *by* taking the leap and placing yourself in situations where you do not feel fully capable yet.
Addressing why some people remain hesitant even after hearing this advice, Grant highlights the pervasive nature of impostor thoughts. Citing research by Basima Tewfik, he points out that true "impostor syndrome"—the crippling belief that one is an absolute fraud about to be exposed—is relatively rare. Instead, everyday "impostor thoughts" about whether one is as competent as others believe are extremely common across medical professionals, investment bankers, military cadets, and students. Surprisingly, Tewfik's research shows that these thoughts can serve as useful motivation to work harder, listen better, and close the gap between current abilities and high expectations.
* **Building Confidence:** Waiting to feel ready is backward; readiness comes from entering challenging situations before feeling completely equipped. * **Research on Impostor Thoughts:** Basima Tewfik’s studies demonstrate that frequent impostor thoughts can act as fuel for persistence and continuous learning. * **Overcoming Self-Doubt:** Because individuals are inherently biased and know too much about their own flaws to compare themselves accurately to others, Grant advises trusting the objective judgment of trusted peers who believe in your potential.
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[01:20:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4842s) The Role of Unlocking Potential in Life Satisfaction
Steven Bartlett shares that helping people realize and pursue their hidden potential is one of the primary goals of *The Diary Of A CEO*. He suggests that much of human fulfillment and health stems from pursuing potential, whereas dissatisfaction often arises from regret over untaken risks. He references Bronnie Ware’s famous study on the regrets of the dying, noting that most palliative care patients wished they had lived a life true to themselves rather than living up to others' expectations.
Grant concurs, explaining that psychological research consistently shows long-term regret stems from failures to try rather than failures themselves. It is the actions not taken that haunt people over time.
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[01:22:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4932s) Seeking Advice Over Feedback: Turning Critics into Coaches
Grant discusses how individuals can cultivate the courage and support necessary to unlock their hidden potential. While people often ask for "feedback," doing so usually produces two unhelpful groups: cheerleaders (who offer rose-colored praise) and critics (who tear down weaknesses). To unlock real growth, people need *coaches*—individuals who see their hidden potential and help them bridge the gap.
To transform cheerleaders and critics into coaches, Grant advises asking for **advice** instead of **feedback**. Asking for feedback forces people to evaluate past performance, whereas asking for advice prompts them to look to the future and offer specific, actionable steps.
Grant illustrates this with a personal story from early in his career: * At age 25, he taught a leadership session to seasoned military officers with multi-billion-pound budgets, thousands of flying hours, and "Top Gun"-style nicknames. * After receiving brutal reviews—with leaders claiming they learned nothing—Grant had to teach the same group a week later. * Instead of hiding, he sought advice from his critics on how to improve. One officer advised him to address the elephant in the room and display vulnerability rather than trying to impress them with credentials. * In the next session, Grant opened by saying, "I know what you're all thinking right now: what could I possibly learn from a professor who's 12 years old?" After a beat of silence, an officer nicknamed "Sand Dune" joked back, "That's ridiculous! You've got to be at least 13!" * Breaking the ice transformed the dynamic; the session was a success, demonstrating how asking for advice can convert harsh critics into helpful coaches.
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[01:25:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=5123s) Self-Promotion vs. Idea Promotion and the Trap of "Personal Branding"
Grant and Bartlett discuss the crucial distinction between self-promotion and idea promotion. Self-promotion centers on highlighting achievements ("Look at me") to impress others, which comes across as narcissistic. Idea promotion, on the other hand, centers on sharing valuable insights, services, or products ("Look at this") to elevate others, which is viewed as an act of generosity.
Bartlett shares his own experience when he first began posting quotes and ideas online nine years ago. He felt intense anxiety that school friends would think "Who the [__] does he think he is?", and even learned that a mutual friend was mocking him behind his back. Overcoming that fear was life-changing, leading him to encourage others not to withhold their ideas out of fear of judgment.
* **Rejection of "Personal Branding":** Grant expresses an unpopular opinion against the concept of personal branding. A brand implies a packaged, static product with slogans, which limits authentic growth. Instead, individuals should strive to build a **reputation** rooted in core values. * **The Freedom to Evolve:** To stay true to continuous learning, Grant stresses that one must be willing to contradict past work. After publishing *Give and Take*, he was labeled the "nice guys finish first" guy, which frustrated him because many effective "givers" are disagreeable. He argues that maintaining a rigid brand prevents intellectual evolution. * **The Feynman Technique & Teaching:** Bartlett references Richard Feynman and James Clear, noting that the person who learns the most in any classroom is the teacher, making idea sharing a powerful engine for personal learning.
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[01:30:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=5440s) Thinking Like a Scientist: Avoiding Preachers, Prosecutors, and Politicians
Delving into core concepts from his book *Think Again*, Grant introduces Phil Tetlock's framework describing three common mindsets that hinder learning and truth-seeking: 1. **Preacher Mode:** Defending and proselytizing one's own ideas as absolute truth. 2. **Prosecutor Mode:** Attacking and attempting to disprove other people's arguments. 3. **Politician Mode:** Campaigning for approval and only listening to people who already agree with you.
Grant confesses that his dominant flaw is slipping into prosecutor mode when he believes someone is wrong. His wife, Allison, once labeled him a "logic bully"—a term he initially mistook for a compliment. Bartlett admits to having similar tendencies, explaining that he often tries to learn by aggressively stress-testing people's ideas through logic and research.
Grant emphasizes that one does not need to prosecute or argue with an idea to understand it. True open-mindedness requires thinking like a scientist: treating opinions as hypotheses, testing them with data, and remaining eager to prove oneself wrong in the pursuit of truth.
Here is a detailed, faithful walkthrough of the provided transcript segment:
[01:32:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=5544s) Thinking Like a Scientist vs. Being Attached to Being Right
Adam Grant warns against falling into "prosecutor mode"—where you have already decided everyone else is wrong and you are right—as well as "preaching" or "politicking." In these states, people drink their own Kool-Aid, listen exclusively to their own tribe, and become trapped inside an echo chamber. To break free from these mental traps, Grant advocates "thinking like a scientist." This mindset does not require a microscope or telescope; rather, it means decoupling your identity from your ideas. Under this framework, every opinion is merely a testable hypothesis, and every decision is just an experiment that might succeed or fail. Grant notes that when people are taught to view their thoughts this way, they become more flexible, recognize their mistakes faster, and ultimately make better choices.
The host, Steven Bartlett, observes how deeply challenging it is for individuals to disassociate their self-worth from being right. If a person receives continuous validation for every idea they voice, their ego swells, making it painful to accept being wrong later on. Grant agrees, quoting a colleague who once remarked that humanity's worst addiction is the "addiction to being right." Grant emphasizes that it is far more important to focus on *getting* it right than *being* right, which requires keeping beliefs separate from one's self-concept.
- **Beliefs vs. Values:** Grant makes a crucial distinction: beliefs are what you think is *true*, whereas values are what you think is *important*. - **Identity Shift:** If identity is tied to beliefs, admitting an error feels like a existential threat. If identity is anchored in values like curiosity or lifelong learning, changing your mind becomes a moment of growth. - **Historical Example:** Before evidence-based medicine, doctors practiced frontal lobotomies for anxiety. A practitioner whose identity was "a lobotomist" would ignore evidence of harm, while a doctor whose core value was "treating anxiety" would readily abandon the practice upon seeing scientific proof. - **Core Rule:** Maintain firm core principles, but remain highly flexible regarding specific practices and policies.
[01:36:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=5766s) Reflecting on Adam Grant's Work and Books
Steven expresses deep appreciation for Adam's contributions, noting how Grant's writing continually forces him to question the status quo, embrace a student mindset, and remain humble to new facts. Steven shares that maintaining this openness has profoundly benefited his own personal relationships and inspired his entrepreneurial work. Looking at copies of Grant's books on the table—*The Originals*, *Think Again*, and *Hidden Potential*—Steven encourages the audience to purchase all three as a package deal on Amazon, highlighting *Hidden Potential* as the newest release from October.
Adam expresses genuine gratitude for the compliment, returning the praise by telling Steven that he embodies the very principles studied on *The Diary Of A CEO*. Adam jokingly points out that not just anyone can make public intellectual Malcolm Gladwell cry on air, adding that despite knowing Gladwell for over a decade, he had never seen him break down in tears before or since.
- **Featured Books:** *The Originals*, *Think Again*, and *Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things*. - **Podcast Praise:** Adam notes that *The Diary Of A CEO* excels at challenging guests to rethink their ideas and unlock hidden potential.
[01:38:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=5900s) Turning the Tables: Adam Grant Questions Steven Bartlett
Before wrapping up, Adam turns the tables on the host, asking if he can ask Steven a few questions. Steven admits to feeling nervous as the guest role reverses. Adam introduces a brief promo for *The Conversation Cards* (Version 2)—a game based on questions written by previous podcast guests—before moving into his personal questions for Steven.
Adam asks Steven where his own "hidden potential" lies. Steven admits that his hidden potential resides in creative mediums like music and theater. He explains that he has avoided pursuing them due to a limiting belief that he lacks the right or talent because his identity is tied to being an "entrepreneur." Adam steps in to reframe his perspective, pointing out that Steven is simply adopting a fixed mindset: "You're not good enough *yet*." Steven agrees, acknowledging that while he isn't Beyoncé today, committing time to bridge the gap could unlock that potential.
- **Identity Trap:** Steven notes that past success reinforces a specific identity, which can trap a person inside a box and prevent them from trying new things.
[01:41:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=6088s) What Makes a Great Podcast Guest and Creating "Curiosity Gaps"
Adam asks Steven what he could do better as a podcast guest, thinker, or writer. Steven candidly shares his observation of what makes guests truly exceptional on his show: top-tier guests lead with an engaging story, hit the audience with a compelling statistic, fact, or study, and then conclude with a clear takeaway. Steven notes that Adam occasionally leads with data first because that is where his personal energy sits, rather than starting with a narrative.
Steven cites Dr. Tara Swart as an example of a guest who mastered opening with obscure, provocative statements that immediately make listeners "lean in"—an approach that helped her episode achieve 9 million views on YouTube. Adam connects this concept to what the Heath brothers call a "curiosity gap"—a mental puzzle or "itch" that social scientists say the human brain feels compelled to scratch. Adam reflects that he often worries podcast stories might go on too long or disrupt a conversational flow, but acknowledges he needs to let go of that fear, as short stories or brief narratives often make the material far more compelling.
- **The Guest Formula:** Story $\rightarrow$ Data/Fact $\rightarrow$ Conclusion. - **Curiosity Gap:** Creating an intriguing open loop or puzzle that forces the listener to lean in and want more context.
[01:44:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=6252s) The Final Question: Billy Joel and the First Historical Memory
Following the show's tradition, Steven asks Adam the question left behind by the previous guest: *"What is your first historical rather than personal memory—the first time you realized there is a big world out there unrelated to you, your friends, and family?"*
Adam recalls a vivid memory from 1989 when he was eight years old and heard Billy Joel's song *We Didn't Start the Fire*. He realized he did not recognize most of the historical references in the lyrics, wondering about Studebakers, television's history, and the Korean War. Driven by curiosity, the young Adam launched a personal research project to uncover the story behind every single reference in the track. Looking back, Adam realizes that child research project was the very first research endeavor he ever conducted—a clear foreshadowing of his future career as an organizational psychologist and author.
- **Year & Age:** 1989, age 8. - **The Catalyst:** Billy Joel's song *We Didn't Start the Fire*. - **The Project:** Investigating every historical term and event named in the song.
[01:45:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=6324s) Closing Remarks and Sponsor Note
Steven wraps up the interview by thanking Adam for a joyful and insightful conversation. Following the episode, Steven shares a short sponsor message regarding Huel, explaining how the meal product helps him maintain consistent, healthy nutrition on the go rather than resorting to junk food snacks during busy work schedules. He invites viewers to try Huel Ready-To-Drink (RTD) options in retail stores or online, and notes a recommended follow-up episode linked in the video description.
## Notable quotes > [19:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1143s) It's not about the browser, it's about the resourcefulness to say you want to be the kind of person who questions the default and asks if there's a better way. — Adam Grant
> [24:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=1444s) Perfectionists are good at school because they know exactly what's going to be on the test... The real world is much more ambiguous... perfectionists are terrified of failure... so they don't take enough risks. — Adam Grant
> [48:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=2894s) I'd probably say 11% chance now... Come on, that's double digits, like we're close to reality. — Elon Musk
> [51:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=3084s) They're so obsessed with being the smartest person in the room that they fail to make the room smarter. — Adam Grant
> [01:13:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4411s) Adam, are you going to do this dive? — Eric
> [01:13:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4411s) Great. Then what are you waiting for? — Eric
> [01:20:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4842s) I know what you're all thinking right now: what could I possibly learn from a professor who's 12 years old? — Adam Grant
> [01:20:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=4842s) That's ridiculous! You've got to be at least 13! — Sand Dune
> [01:44:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg&t=6252s) What is your first historical rather than personal memory—the first time you realized there is a big world out there unrelated to you, your friends, and family? — Steven Bartlett
## Mentioned Adam Grant, Steven Bartlett, The Diary Of A CEO, Nir Eyal, Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi, Jihae Shin, Fuchsius Sirois, Stephen King, Maggie Smith, Michael Housman, Elon Musk, Thomas Curran, Eric Ries, Eric Best, Walter Mischel, David Goggins, Russ Cook, Frank Sulloway, Deborah Meyerson, Maureen Scully, James Baron, Michael Hannan, Boris Groysberg, Wharton School, SpaceX, Neuralink, Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, Safari, Internet Explorer, Facebook, NBA, Steve Jobs, Ed Catmull, Brad Bird, Constantinos Coutifaris, Amy Edmondson, Basima Tewfik, Bronnie Ware, Richard Feynman, James Clear, Phil Tetlock, Dr. Tara Swart, Malcolm Gladwell, Billy Joel, Pixar, The Incredibles, The Iron Giant, Toy Story, A Bug's Life, Monsters, Inc., NASA, Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things, Think Again, The Originals, Give and Take, The Conversation Cards, Huel, LinkedIn Jobs
[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPXjt6beYbg)