Rebel Wilson Trades Multi-Million Hollywood Niche to Pursue Weight Loss

Rebel Wilson: I Used My Weight To My Advantage! — The Diary Of A CEO

The Diary Of A CEO

The Australian actress sacrificed lucrative comedy roles and overcame severe childhood trauma to prioritize her long-term health and fertility goals.

AI-assisted summary of Rebel Wilson: I Used My Weight To My Advantage! — original source. Check the original for full context.

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## Background This episode of The Diary Of A CEO, hosted by Steven Bartlett, was published on YouTube on May 6, 2024. According to the page description, Australian actress and producer Rebel Wilson—known for her roles in Bridesmaids, Pitch Perfect, and Jojo Rabbit—shares the story of her life, career, and personal evolution.

## TL;DR Rebel Wilson reflects on her journey from a painfully shy childhood plagued by family dysfunction and physical insecurities to building a lucrative Hollywood career playing comedic roles. She details how she strategically leveraged her body image for comedy, the health and personal costs of her intense career focus, and her decision to address her emotional eating and prioritize starting a family. Wilson also opens up about late-in-life personal milestones, her experience with weight-loss medication, and processing past trauma through her memoir Rebel Rising.

## Atmosphere & style The conversation carries a deeply candid, intimate, and introspective vibe, balancing lighthearted humor with vulnerable reflection. Host Steven Bartlett guides the discussion with empathetic curiosity, creating a safe space for Wilson to pivot effortlessly between discussing intense childhood trauma and recounting hilarious career anecdotes. The emotional arc transitions smoothly from early isolation and self-doubt to personal empowerment, delivering a grounded and inspiring listening experience.

## Key takeaways - [02:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=134s) Rebel Wilson's childhood was marked by extreme social shyness, family financial instability, and emotional and physical abuse from her volatile father. - [17:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1028s) Driven by feelings of unworthiness, early academic pressure, and childhood trauma, Rebel channeled her insecurities into an intense drive for external achievement. - [22:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1320s) At age 14, Rebel systematically transformed herself into an extrovert by studying self-help books and forcing herself to talk to five new people every day. - [32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1952s) While hospitalized with a severe case of malaria in South Africa, Rebel had a life-changing hallucination of herself winning an Oscar, prompting her to pursue an acting career. - [39:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2394s) Diagnosed with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS) in her early twenties, Rebel intentionally used her weight gain as a unique comedic asset to carve out a multi-million-dollar niche in Hollywood. - [47:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2854s) Despite achieving massive global career success with roles like 'Fat Amy' in Pitch Perfect, Rebel struggled with low self-esteem, emotional eating, and stayed single and a virgin until age 35. - [50:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3007s) For her breakout role in Bridesmaids, Rebel was paid only $3,500—which went directly to union dues—forcing her to live on $60 a week before securing major film deals. - [54:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3246s) A blunt reality check from a fertility doctor at age 39 pushed Rebel to embark on a 'Year of Health' to improve her chances of becoming a mother, despite pushback from her team who warned it would ruin her career niche. - [01:02:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3733s) Through intensive emotional therapy, Rebel realized she used her weight as a protective shield against personal intimacy and childhood trauma. - [01:06:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4014s) To catch up on missed personal milestones, Rebel went on a 'Year of Love' where she dated roughly 50 people, and later experimented with Ozempic for weight management. - [01:13:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4415s) Losing 35 kg transformed her career opportunities by opening doors to serious dramatic roles, while revealing a stark shift in how society treats women based on physical appearance. - [01:20:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4828s) Rebel published accounts of abusive work conditions in her memoir, Rebel Rising, to release lingering personal shame and demonstrate her growth in self-worth. - [01:29:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5351s) By sharing her experience as a 'late bloomer', Rebel aims to destigmatize delayed romantic and personal timelines for others.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=0s) Intro & Context The episode opens with a dramatic sequence of excerpts highlighting key themes from Rebel Wilson's life story. Rebel addresses her worst professional experience prior to the #MeToo movement, describing feelings of humiliation and degradation. She candidly recounts growing up alongside family dysfunction—including her father's harsh verbal abuse toward her mother—and how low self-worth led her to emotional eating and trashing her body. Her trajectory shifted after discovering motivational tapes that urged her to move forward despite fear. After realizing audience dynamics—specifically that people laughed at larger actors—she strategically used her weight to build a multi-million-dollar career playing "the fat funny girl" in Hollywood.

Despite achieving immense public success, Rebel discloses the hidden personal costs: remaining a virgin into her thirties, never dating properly, and eventually confronting a fertility doctor who bluntly warned her that her weight was putting her health and future family goals at risk. When she expressed a desire to get healthy, members of her professional team discouraged her, warning that losing weight would sabotage her lucrative niche.

---

### [02:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=134s) Being a Very Shy Kid Host Steven Bartlett asks Rebel about her earliest context to better understand the person behind the public image. Rebel explains that while people often view her on screen as an extraordinarily confident, sexually brazen, or brash persona, her true nature as a child was the exact opposite.

She grew up in a standard suburban Australian household, but suffered from extreme social shyness bordering on a disorder. For anyone who knew her back then, a career in entertainment would have seemed completely unimaginable. Her family ran an unconventional business: selling pet accessories out of a yellow caravan at dog shows across Australia.

- Her family traveled around selling pooper scoopers, brushes, and dog leashes. - Ironically, Rebel was severely allergic to dogs during these years—a fact she only discovered after being tested as an adult, which explained her constant childhood physical discomfort. - Writing her memoir, *Rebel Rising*, served as a way to expose this lesser-known dimension of her personality and explain how her childhood shaped her adult self.

---

### [04:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=246s) My Family and Their Struggles Rebel shifts to discussing her parents' backgrounds and personalities. Her mother was a dedicated state school kindergarten teacher who worked with many refugee children who spoke no English. Rebel describes her mother as a warm, bright light who helped countless young people, though she also spent periods as a stay-at-home mom—a role Rebel now views as extremely demanding after becoming a mother herself.

In contrast, her father experienced severe emotional trauma early in life when his own father died suddenly during his final year of high school at age 18. This tragedy threw his life off course and left him with unaddressed emotional wounds that prevented him from achieving his full potential as an aspiring businessman.

- Her mother taught primary school kindergarten in low-income Australian state schools. - Her father lost his father unexpectedly at age 18, altering his life trajectory. - Her father struggled to build a successful career despite his ambitions, leaving him feeling unfulfilled.

---

### [05:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=319s) My Dad's Anger Issues Rebel explains how her father's frustration manifested at home, primarily through chronic anger and financial stress. She recalls visiting race tracks where her father owned tiny shares—such as a 1/12th syndicate share—in racehorses. He would look envy-filled at the wealthy, high-flying owners whose names were known, desiring that level of status and recognition for himself.

``` "I think cause he was so angry all the time and money was a source of fighting in the household... he'd look at the other High Flyers, rich people who had a lot of money... and I definitely saw that he wanted to be that, but he wasn't that." ```

Rebel details discovering a gym bag in the back of her father's car packed with self-improvement and motivational cassettes, including Dale Carnegie’s *How to Win Friends and Influence People*. She realized these tapes were his private effort to learn sales skills and better himself, though he lacked the emotional tools to overcome his grief. In mid-20th-century Australia, therapy was not normalized, leaving his trauma to erupt in sudden, explosive fits where his face would turn bright red like an expanding balloon.

---

### [08:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=521s) Doing "Weird" Things as a Child To illustrate her father's volatile temper, Rebel recounts an incident from when she was roughly eight years old and her sister Liberty was six. Returning home from a dog show on an intensely hot Australian summer day (around 36°C / 97°F), the children poured water directly onto their mattress so they could lie down in the damp coolness.

When her father walked in and saw the soaked bed, he assumed they had wet the mattress out of deliberate misbehavior. Without asking questions, his anger instantly triggered.

- He flew into a rage and began physically hitting them. - Rebel describes herself and her siblings as exceptionally well-behaved children who lived in fear of setting him off. - The experience left her with intense guilt, internalizing the idea that she was a "terrible person" for attempting to stay cool. - Though physical punishment with belts or hands was relatively normalized in her community at the time, the unpredictability made her childhood home feel unsafe.

---

### [10:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=629s) Emotional Abuse and Her Parents' Divorce The abuse extended directly to Rebel's mother in the form of relentless verbal and financial toxicity. Her father routinely hurled insulting remarks at her mother, calling her a "fat lazy cow" and telling her that no one would ever love her. He also maintained tight control over the family’s finances, only to gamble away their money and leave the family financially strapped.

These dynamics fundamentally damaged Rebel's perspective on romantic relationships. Witnessing her mother become a "shell of a woman" made Rebel resolve never to marry or form a partnership.

``` "I saw my mom kind of became a shell of a woman and had to have every ounce of strength in order to get out of that relationship... and that left me thinking I will never get married." ```

Her parents eventually separated when Rebel was around 16 or 17, but the divorce dragged on for seven excruciating years. The lengthy legal battle wiped out her mother's savings, leaving all the money in the hands of lawyers. After a brief teenage romance ended in her boyfriend cheating on her, Rebel avoided dating throughout her entire teens and twenties, believing romance would only drag her down and prevent her from achieving independent success. (She notes happily that her mother later remarried a kind, loving man).

---

### [14:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=846s) How Her Dad's Trauma Impacted Her Steven and Rebel discuss the relationship between childhood darkness and adult drive, citing performance coach Tim Grover's work with athletes like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Rebel notes that many colleagues in the entertainment industry who grew up in stable, loving homes often produce work that feels somewhat "vanilla."

Rebel views her own personality as a blend of two distinct family lines: - **Her Mother's Side:** Bright, warm, comedic, and lighthearted. - **Her Father's Side:** Dodgy, marked by a history of convict heritage, addiction, alcoholism, and a combative, dark edge.

She credits this darker lineage with giving her comedy an extra edge and intensity. While she does not experience clinical depression, she acknowledges occasionally feeling an aggressive, "mafia-like" impulse to seek revenge against those who slight her—a dark trait inherited from her father's side that fuels her artistic voice.

---

### [17:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1028s) Where Her Darkness and Drive Come From Steven shares his own experience of being driven by childhood shame as the only Black child from a poor family in his neighborhood, prompting a discussion about whether high achievers are driven or "dragged" by their unresolved insecurities. Rebel agrees that she falls into the "dragged" category, identifying as a workaholic who ties her core self-worth directly to external achievement.

``` "I definitely get self-esteem and self-worth from achievements." ```

She reflects on how her early feelings of inadequacies drove her to constantly prove herself, seeking validation through awards, academic success, and career milestones to compensate for the instability and emotional trauma of her home life.

[18:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1103s) Feeling Not "Good Enough" and the Roots of Low Self-Worth

Rebel Wilson reflects deeply on the underlying reasons for her complex relationship with food and self-worth. She explains that during her school years, anything less than a 100% score on an exam made her feel like trash. This deep-seated belief—that she wasn't inherently good enough—translated into treating her body poorly, as if she didn't deserve proper care. Searching for the origin of these feelings, she traces them to both subtle cultural dynamics and her family environment. Growing up in a conservative household where emotions were rarely discussed or expressed, Wilson felt that love and validation were conditional, tied directly to achieving top marks, winning prizes, or receiving academic trophies.

``` ┌──────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ ROOTS OF LOW SELF-WORTH │ └──────────────────────┬───────────────────────┘ │ ┌────────────────────────────────┼────────────────────────────────┐ ▼ ▼ ▼ ┌──────────────┐ ┌──────────────┐ ┌──────────────┐ │ Gender Norms │ │ Family Dynamics│ │ School Environment│ │ & Culture │ │ & Validation │ │ & Comparison │ ├──────────────┤ ├──────────────┤ ├──────────────┤ │ Boys praised │ │ Conservative │ │ Academic │ │ over girls; │ │ family home; │ │ success tied │ │ better │ │ emotions not │ │ directly to │ │ facilities │ │ discussed │ │ self-worth │ └──────────────┘ └──────────────┘ └──────────────┘ ```

She also recalls how gender expectations in her community quietly reinforced her sense of inferiority. Even in dog shows during her childhood, the "Junior Handling" events routinely awarded wins to boys simply because it was unusual to see a boy competing, whereas girls were largely overlooked. Furthermore, while she attended an all-girls high school, the neighboring boys' school was regarded as far more prestigious and boasted a multi-million dollar theater. These accumulated micro-experiences left her with a persistent sense of being sidelined and invisible.

- **Academic Pressure:** Believed achieving anything less than a 100% exam score meant failure. - **Dog Show Handling:** Competed in "Junior Handling" dog shows where boys were routinely favored over girls. - **School Disparity:** Attended an all-girls high school adjacent to a more prestigious boys' school equipped with a multi-million dollar theater.

> "I felt like I was not good enough—I was like trash, and that's why I would trash my body, because I just felt like, well, I don't deserve anything different."

---

[22:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1320s) Shy Years, the Snaggletooth, and the 15-Year-Old Turning Point

Describing her early teenage years as one of her darkest periods, Wilson paints a vivid picture of a painfully introverted 13- and 14-year-old. She remembers being average-looking and self-conscious about a "snaggletooth"—a single deformed fang-like tooth that made her feel unattractive—and experiencing intense physical anxiety, such as blushing bright red whenever a teacher called on her. Convinced no one would want to be her friend, she spent her lunch breaks sitting entirely alone in the school library.

``` ┌────────────────────────┐ │ SHY & ISOLATED ERA │ │ (Ages 13–14) │ └───────────┬────────────┘ │ ▼ ┌──────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ Reads article in library: │ │ "Your personality at 15 will be yours for life." │ └────────────────────────┬─────────────────────────┘ │ ▼ ┌────────────────────────┐ │ DECISION TO ACT │ │ Forced transformation │ └────────────────────────┘ ```

The turning point came while reading an article in the library asserting that a person's personality at age 15 becomes their personality for life. Fearing she would remain isolated and emotionally unexpressed forever, she resolved to radically transform herself before turning 15. Realizing she couldn't wait for friends to find her, she sought out self-help and motivational tapes, including Dale Carnegie’s *How to Win Friends and Influence People*, to map out a clear strategy for becoming extroverted and popular.

- **Physical Insecurity:** Struggled with a single "snaggletooth" before eventually getting it fixed later in life. - **Library Article Catalyst:** Read that personality freezes at age 15, sparking her urgency to break out of her shell. - **Motivational Reading:** Adopted strategies from self-help sources and Dale Carnegie's *How to Win Friends and Influence People*.

> "I read this article in the library that said that what your personality is at 15 will be your personality for life... I went, 'I'm so close to 15—if I don't change, this is going to be me forever.'"

---

[24:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1479s) Executing the Popularity Plan and Getting Dragged to Drama Class

To overcome her extreme shyness, Wilson executed a deliberate daily routine inspired by her reading: she forced herself to speak to five new people every single day. She would initiate conversations with girls on the bus, approach peers at the school gates, and join various sports teams and extracurricular clubs. Realizing that negative attention could also establish a reputation quickly, she intentionally engaged in outrageous, "naughty" behaviors at school—a sharp departure from her naturally good-mannered personality—to build visibility, comparing the tactic to rapper Eminem's early controversial persona.

``` ┌─────────────────────────────────┐ │ TRANSFORMATION STRATEGY │ └────────────────┬────────────────┘ │ ┌──────────────────────────────┼──────────────────────────────┐ ▼ ▼ ▼ ┌──────────────┐ ┌──────────────┐ ┌──────────────┐ │ The 5-Person│ │ Outrageous │ │ Drama Class │ │ Rule │ │ Behaviour │ │ Intervention│ ├──────────────┤ ├──────────────┤ ├──────────────┤ │ Talk to 5 │ │ Act out to │ │ Forced by │ │ new people │ │ gain initial │ │ mother to │ │ daily │ │ attention │ │ build confidence│ └──────────────┘ └──────────────┘ └──────────────┘ ```

Noticing her social isolation, her mother stepped in to help by forcing her to attend community drama classes. Wilson vividly recalls clinging to the car door with her fingernails, crying and protesting as her mother literally dragged her out of the vehicle. Although her family had no background in professional entertainment, the creative arts provided an unexpected escape: stepping into a character's shoes allowed her to act confidently without feeling exposed as herself, eventually building genuine self-esteem that bled back into her real life.

- **Daily Goal:** Committed to speaking to 5 new people every day (on the bus, at school gates, in class). - **Behavioral Shift:** Intentionally acted out to gain attention and build a public persona, taking inspiration from controversial artists like Eminem. - **Drama Class Intervention:** Her mother physically dragged her to local community drama classes to help build her self-esteem.

---

[28:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1709s) The South Africa Rotary Trip, Safety Hazards, and Contracting Malaria

Driven to achieve and escape her turbulent home dynamics, Wilson excelled academically, attended boarding school at age 16, and eventually entered a prestigious Rotary Youth Ambassador program after high school. Selected after serving as a witness in a major crime squad investigation—where authorities were impressed by her public speaking under pressure—she was assigned to South Africa just a few years post-apartheid. The transition from safe, suburban Australia to Johannesburg was an enormous culture shock.

``` ┌───────────────────────┐ │ GAP YEAR TRAJECTORY │ └───────────┬───────────┘ │ ▼ ┌───────────────────────┐ │ Witness in Major │ │ Crime Squad Case │ └───────────┬───────────┘ │ ▼ ┌───────────────────────┐ │ Rotary Youth │ │ Ambassador Program │ └───────────┬───────────┘ │ ▼ ┌───────────────────────┐ │ Assigned to │ │ South Africa │ └───────────────────────┘ ```

At the time, Johannesburg had among the highest murder and rape rates in the world. Wilson was confronted daily with razor-wire fences, attack dogs, and widespread firearms, forcing her to carry a wooden baton for personal safety. Host Steven Bartlett shares a parallel personal anecdote about catching malaria in Africa as a young boy and seeing a hallucinated "shadow man" by his bed—a vision his parents believed acted as a guardian angel that alerted them in time to save his life.

- **Program Selection:** Chosen for the Rotary Youth Ambassador program due to her debating skills and composure as a crime witness. - **Safety Precautions:** Carried a wooden baton daily for self-defense while navigating late 1990s Johannesburg. - **Host's Parallel Story:** Steven Bartlett recounts his own childhood malaria hallucination of a "shadow man" behind his father's shoulder.

> "Johannesburg had the highest rape and murder rate in the world at that time, and there were guns everywhere and barbed wire fences and attack dogs... I had to carry a little wooden baton."

---

[32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1952s) The Life-Changing Malaria Vision: From Law School to Acting

While in South Africa, Wilson contracted a severe, life-threatening strain of malaria that required a two-week hospital stay. Drugged and delirious, she experienced an extraordinarily vivid, life-altering vision: she saw herself as an accomplished actress walking down a red carpet and accepting an Academy Award, complete with the details of the crowd's attire. Rather than giving a traditional Oscar speech in her vision, she delivered an acceptance rap—a nod to a short-lived rap group she had formed with her sister during a phase when she admired the swagger of hip-hop artists.

``` ┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ MALARIA HOSPITALIZATION (2 Weeks) │ └────────────────────────┬────────────────────────┘ │ ▼ ┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ HALLUCINATED OSCAR VISION │ │ - Walking red carpet as a famous actress │ │ - Winning an Academy Award │ │ - Delivering an acceptance RAP on stage │ └────────────────────────┬────────────────────────┘ │ ▼ ┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ CAREER DIRECTION CHANGE │ │ Leaves South Africa 1 month early to audition │ │ for Australian drama school. │ └─────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ ```

The hallucination was so intense that upon leaving the hospital, Wilson announced she was cutting her stay short by a month to return to Australia and audition for drama school. Everyone around her assumed the malaria had damaged her brain, urging her to stick with her prestigious spot in law school instead. Undeterred, she auditioned for drama school (and was promptly rejected), embarking on what would be a five-year journey to turn acting into a viable career. She often questioned whether the vision was a fever-induced delusion, a manifestation of her suppressed childhood dreams, or divine intervention guiding her toward her life's true purpose.

- **Hospital Stay:** Spent 2 full weeks hospitalized treating a severe strain of malaria. - **Vision Details:** Saw herself winning an Oscar and delivering an acceptance rap on stage. - **Initial Rejection:** Cut her African trip short by 1 month to audition for an Australian drama school, where she was initially turned down. - **Timeline to Success:** Took 5 years from the initial vision until she began making a living as an actress.

> "People go, 'No, the malaria has affected your brain.' They thought I was nuts... I go, 'No, I've seen it, and I think I need to be an actress now.'"

[36:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2174s) Pursuing Law and the Burden of Parental Expectations

Rebel Wilson reflects on her choice to study law at the University of New South Wales alongside a business and arts degree. Because entry into law school required near-perfect exam scores, she felt that since she was smart enough to qualify, she ought to do it. Steven Bartlett asks whether she was trying to impress one of her parents more than the other. Wilson shares that her mother’s primary wish for her was simply to be "normal"—to have friends, enjoy relationships, and avoid the public eye. Bartlett suggests that as the eldest of four siblings, Wilson may have carried her parents' unfulfilled desires, acting as a vessel for their ambitions.

Wilson agrees that her parents viewed a law degree as the ultimate validation for their hard work and financial sacrifices. To afford her elite high school education and uniforms, her father worked grueling hours at a gas station overnight in addition to selling dog grooming products. Getting into a top law school meant that their sacrifices had paid off.

Despite pursuing acting simultaneously, Wilson eventually qualified as a lawyer, though the double degree took her 10 years instead of the standard five. The law school strictly enforced an 80% in-person attendance rule. When filming schedules conflicted with classes, she was forced to repeat entire subjects. She recalls a grueling schedule where she would wake up at 4:00 AM in another Australian state where she was filming, fly to Sydney to attend classes, and fly back the same evening to resume shooting.

- **Law degree duration:** 10 years (combined Law/Arts degree). - **Mandatory class attendance:** 80% in-person attendance required by UNSW Law School. - **Father's extra hustle:** Worked overnight gas station shifts alongside his dog-product business to afford high school tuition.

---

[38:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2319s) Late Start in Acting and Writing Her Own Roles

Wilson began her acting journey around age 18 or 19, which she considers quite late compared to peers who started as child actors. By age 21, she wrote her very first play over two nights. The play won a playwriting competition, and a television network unexpectedly granted her $90,000 to stage it professionally.

This initial success brought a stark realization: the industry did not view her as a conventional leading lady like Nicole Kidman. To create a career for herself, she needed to write her own material. Despite early recognition, she did not earn a full-time living from acting until she was cast as a regular on an Australian television series at age 23.

- **Age at acting debut:** 18–19 years old. - **First play grant:** Received $90,000 from a TV network after winning a playwriting contest at age 21. - **First regular TV gig:** Age 23.

---

[39:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2394s) PCOS, Weight Gain, and the "Science" of Comedy

Around age 21 or 22, Wilson was diagnosed with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS). While she had previously been athletic and average-sized, the condition triggered rapid weight gain, causing her to put on 30 kilograms (around 66 pounds) alongside other physical symptoms such as body hair.

While staging her first play, Wilson observed that an actress on stage who was larger than her consistently got bigger laughs, even though the dialogue had been written evenly. This sparked an epiphany, which was later reinforced when she studied a university course titled *Comedy and Power*. The academic concept posited that romantic attraction and comedic laughter stem from different psychological impulses: people generally do not want to laugh at someone they find sexually attractive. Conversely, audiences laugh more readily at individuals with distinctive or irregular physical traits—whether tall, short, possessing a large nose, or carrying extra weight.

Recognizing this dynamic, Wilson strategically chose to lean into her weight as a "tool" in her comedy toolbox rather than viewing it as a handicap. Leaning into comedic roles yielded bigger laughs, better casting opportunities, and higher pay. During this period, she earned a scholarship funded by Nicole Kidman to study at The Second City comedy theatre in New York City.

> "Normally if you want to sleep with somebody you're not wanting to laugh at them... the science of it is more people want to be your friend rather than they don't want to be your lover."

- **Weight gain from PCOS:** 30 kg (~66 lbs). - **University course:** *Comedy and Power*. - **Scholarship:** Funded by Nicole Kidman to study at The Second City in New York.

---

[43:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2597s) Internal Conflict and the Demeanor of "Fat" Characters

Looking back through her teenage diaries while researching her memoir *Rebel Rising*, Wilson was surprised to find that even at age 16—when she was athletic and played sports—her primary goal was already to lose two kilograms. This obsession stemmed from offhand comments made by her mother, who struggled with her own weight issues.

As her professional career took off, a deep internal conflict developed. On one hand, her weight served as a career catalyst, landing her roles on popular Australian television shows like *Fat Pizza*, where she played "Toula," the obese girlfriend whose partner was embarrassed to be seen with her. On the other hand, she knew her eating habits were deeply unhealthy. While attending comedy school in New York, she frequently ate a whole pint of ice cream or a large bag of chips for dinner.

Playing characters defined by their physical appearance created a divide between her professional persona and her personal feelings. Off-camera, her co-stars were respectful, but interactions with the public proved hurtful. She recalls an instance at a post office where a fan of *Fat Pizza* recognized her and began making derogatory, in-character jokes directly to her face in real life, unable to separate the actress from the role.

---

[47:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2854s) Professional Triumph vs. Personal Stagnation

As Wilson’s career exploded globally with her role as "Fat Amy" in *Pitch Perfect*, she began making millions of dollars playing the "fat funny girl." However, this career success masked severe deficits in her personal life. She compares her singular focus to that of an Olympic athlete: achieving extraordinary, million-to-one professional success left other aspects of her life severely stunted.

While she could sit courtside at LA Lakers games and attend prestigious industry events, her emotional and romantic development lagged far behind. She had not gone on a single date or experienced physical intimacy until her early 30s.

- **Milestone delayed:** Did not go on her first date or experience physical intimacy until her early 30s. - **Career vs. Health:** Prized professional success and financial security over health and personal relationships throughout her 20s.

---

[50:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3007s) The "Bridesmaids" Gamble and Surviving on $60 a Week

Wilson details the financial realities of her breakout Hollywood role in *Bridesmaids* (2011). Despite the film's massive success, she was paid just $3,500 for her role. That entire paycheck immediately went toward paying dues to join the SAG-AFTRA union. After buying a dress and paying for transport to attend the movie's red carpet premiere, she actually lost money on the job.

Because feature films typically take a full year from production to theatrical release, the period following *Bridesmaids* was financially desperate. Living in Los Angeles, she had to survive on a strict budget of just $60 a week for groceries and personal expenses after paying rent and car rental fees. Once *Bridesmaids* premiered and became a smash hit, her trajectory changed overnight: she booked six feature films in rapid succession, including *Pitch Perfect*, which went on to become the highest-grossing musical comedy franchise of all time.

- **Pay for *Bridesmaids*:** $3,500 (completely offset by union dues and premiere expenses). - **Weekly living budget in LA:** $60 per week during the year waiting for *Bridesmaids* to release. - **Post-*Bridesmaids* boom:** Booked 6 movies off its success.

---

[53:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3190s) The Ticking Clock and the Desire for a Family

In her late 30s, despite having built a lucrative Hollywood career, Wilson experienced a sudden and intense shift in priorities. Having spent her 20s and early 30s entirely focused on work, she had never envisioned herself having a family or finding a long-term partner.

However, as she approached her late 30s, her biological clock began ticking loudly—a feeling she describes as akin to the ticking clock inside the crocodile from *Peter Pan*. Seeing friends with children and encountering families made her realize that if she wanted to become a mother, she needed to take action before it was too late.

<ElicitationsGroup message="Explore more from this interview:"> <Elicitation label="Read about Rebel Wilson's weight loss journey" query="Summarize the next section of Rebel Wilson's interview covering her health transformation and weight loss journey."/> <Elicitation label="Learn about her experiences in Hollywood" query="What details does Rebel Wilson share about her contract restrictions and career after losing weight?"/> </ElicitationsGroup>

[54:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3246s) "You're Not Healthy": The Blunt Wake-Up Call From a Fertility Doctor

Around age 39, Rebel Wilson felt a deep, undeniable urge to become a mother, despite not having a partner at the time. She visited a fertility doctor to check her egg reserve, at a point when she was medically obese but living what felt like an incredible life—traveling the world, earning success, and singing along to Lizzo's *"It's Bad O'Clock"* with complete self-confidence. During the consultation, however, the physician looked her up and down and delivered a unfiltered assessment: *"Yeah, but you're not healthy."* He bluntly informed her that her chances of conceiving would improve dramatically if she lost weight.

Coming from a total stranger who resembled "Doc Brown from *Back to the Future*" and clearly wasn't part of the *Pitch Perfect* fanbase, the comment hit Wilson with unexpected force. In Hollywood, people constantly praised her success and celebrated her character "Fat Amy," never calling out her eating habits. While she had long considered herself a beacon of body positivity who truly believed beauty exists at any size, the doctor's blunt delivery pierced through her denial. She realized that while she lacked chronic medical conditions, she was engaging in deeply unhealthy behaviors that she could no longer ignore.

- **Age at fertility consultation:** 39 years old. - **Initial reaction to the doctor's tone:** Surprised by his disdain, yet instantly aware that his critique was accurate. - **Decisive pivot:** Planned to take the entire year of 2020 off from acting—unaware a global pandemic was imminent—to dedicate herself entirely to her health.

---

[57:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3432s) Breaking the Weight-Loss Plateau and Facing Team Pushback

Reflecting on her past, Wilson noted how difficult it is to transition from knowing you are obese to taking permanent action. Over the years, she had tried numerous quick-fix diets and health retreats—losing 5 to 7 pounds in a week only to regain it immediately. She had come to accept that her body's natural "set point" or homeostasis was around 102 kilograms (approx. 225 lbs). It frustrated her that she could earn two university degrees and become an international film star, yet felt powerless to change her physical weight.

When Wilson shared her plan to get healthy with her professional team, she met immediate resistance. They cautioned her against altering the very image that made her famous, warning that she was throwing away her lucrative niche.

> "They're like, 'Oh no, no, no, why would you want to lose weight?... You lose your multi-million dollar pigeonhole that you've so successfully created.'"

Faced with a stark choice between protecting her Hollywood career or prioritizing her health and potential future child, Wilson chose her health. Her acting contracts—including those for *Pitch Perfect*—frequently contained standard appearance clauses prohibiting cast members from losing or gaining more than 10 pounds (or altering their hair color/style) so they remained identical for potential reshoots or sequels. The pandemic's arrival in 2020 ultimately proved to be a blessing, giving her the quiet, non-work environment necessary to focus entirely on her physical transformation.

- **Weight set point before transformation:** Approximately 102 kg. - **Hollywood contracts constraint:** Could not change her physical appearance by more than 10 lbs while under contract. - **Estimated earnings sacrificed/risked:** Over $20 million in film offers to pursue her health goal.

---

[01:02:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3733s) Processing Emotional Baggage and Unpacking Weight as a Shield

Wilson's path to lasting change required going far beyond diet and exercise. Introduced by Anne Hathaway—who noticed Wilson struggling during the filming of *The Hustle*—to a doctor specializing in the link between emotions and physical health, Wilson began biweekly therapy calls. At first, opening up about her private life felt uncomfortable, but she soon recognized that she was an emotional eater holding onto a "bag of groceries" filled with childhood traumas, including the complicated relationship with her late father who had passed away shortly after the release of *Pitch Perfect*.

Through this work, Wilson realized her weight had served as a protective barrier against emotional and physical intimacy. Adopting the role of the "fat funny friend" kept people at a distance so they wouldn't discover her true vulnerabilities or see how she really lived. Host Steven Bartlett referenced a study cited by author Johann Hari (*Lost Connections*), which noted that some women who lose weight regain it after receiving romantic advances because the excess weight previously shielded them from unwanted attention or trauma responses—a dynamic Wilson strongly related to.

- **Key professional introduction:** Anne Hathaway connected her with the emotional health specialist. - **Therapy structure:** Biweekly phone sessions aimed at processing emotional triggers and past trauma. - **Daily health routine in 2020:** 2 to 2.5 hours of daily workouts, self-cooked high-protein meals, and processing internal stress.

---

[01:06:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3997s) Navigating Late-in-Life Dating and Losing Her Virginity at 35

Before her focus on physical health, Wilson undertook a self-described "Year of Love" to push herself out of her comfort zone regarding dating. Having been extremely shy and feeling "invisible" in terms of romantic attractiveness throughout her twenties, she experienced almost no romantic attention until she became famous. She recalled a moment at the Château Marmont after *Pitch Perfect* when a waiter slipped her his phone number—a gesture that left her completely shocked while her friend and roommate Matt Lucas urged her to pursue it.

Host Steven Bartlett candidly brought up that Wilson was a virgin until age 35, asking if that created anxiety when going on dates. Wilson explained that she lost her virginity to an amazing guy she was set up with at 35, someone she genuinely liked and saw as potential marriage material.

> "I'd waited so long at that point, I really wanted to lose my virginity to someone who I was really, really into... I don't think I could have done [the year of dating] if I was still a virgin going on all those dates."

After that milestone, Wilson felt far more confident putting herself out there. She joined exclusive dating apps like Raya—joking with Bartlett, who recalled being left on Raya's waitlist as a teenager, that it was the platform's loss—and went on numerous dates to catch up on the relationship experience she had missed in her youth.

- **First major romantic attention:** A Château Marmont waiter slipping her his number while hanging out with Matt Lucas. - **Virginity milestone:** Lost her virginity at age 35 to a man she genuinely liked and respected. - **Dating approach:** Used Raya and mutual setups during her "Year of Love" to overcome decades of romantic anxiety.

[01:11:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4294s) Dating Experiments and Using Ozempic for Weight Management

Rebel Wilson candidly breaks down her path toward romantic and physical health, revealing that by 2019 she had made a conscious push to catch up on personal relationship experiences. Feeling "behind the eight ball" because she had never dated properly in her youth, she embarked on a self-imposed challenge and dated around 50 people in a single year to acquire dating experience and search for "the one." Switching topics to physical health, host Steven Bartlett asks about her experience with Ozempic. Wilson openly admits that she experimented with the GLP-1 weight-loss medication for a few months for weight maintenance after shedding approximately 35 kilograms (77 lbs).

She reflects that she wishes she had known about Ozempic during her dedicated "Year of Health" in 2020, stating she would have tried it without hesitation. After losing significant weight through intense physical activity, she found it impossible to sustain that extreme level of workout focus indefinitely, especially after welcoming her baby daughter and spending long, sedentary days on set directing her film. The physical toll and stress caused her to regain about 10 kilograms. For her, Ozempic served as a useful tool against her "unlimited ability to eat sweets and chocolate and ice cream," helping her brain register fullness in a way it never had naturally. While she is not currently taking it, she defends its utility for people facing similar emotional and physical eating struggles, stating she would gladly use it again under a doctor’s prescription.

- **Dating Push:** Dated roughly 50 people in 2019 to overcome feeling inexperienced in relationships. - **Weight Loss & Regain:** Lost around 35 kg during her health drive, but regained about 10 kg due to lifestyle shifts, parenting, and directed movie stress. - **Ozempic Trial:** Used Ozempic for several months specifically to curb an "unlimited ability" to overindulge in sweets and regulate satiety.

---

[01:13:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4415s) Fan Backlash, Public Bias, and Evolving Acting Roles

Addressing the public reaction to her physical transformation, Wilson addresses the audience backlash that often accompanies dramatic weight loss in famous figures, comparing her experience to singer Adele's. When fans expressed concern that shedding weight would ruin her comedic identity, Wilson proved skeptics wrong with her hit Netflix comedy *Senior Year*, which garnered 89 million unique views in its first 10 days. She analyzes the psychological reaction of disgruntled fans through an astute family metaphor: when a person makes a self-improvement breakthrough, it can act as a mirror that makes others feel bad about their own lack of progress, causing them to lash out.

Wilson poses a provocative question to those critics: would they prefer she follow the tragic path of late comedians like John Candy, who died prematurely from health complications? She references her own father, who died from a heart attack tied to diabetes complications, emphasizing that she was heading down a dangerous medical path herself. She asserts that comedy rests on a performer's personality and toolkit rather than a single physical trait. Losing weight transformed her career options, opening doors to serious dramatic roles—such as starring in *The Almond and the Seahorse* and playing Lady Capulet in a feature film—allowing her to return to her classical Shakespearean roots. On a societal level, she notes the stark shift in how the world treated her: going from feeling virtually invisible to receiving overwhelming positive bias, door-opening chivalry, and superficial validation.

- **Netflix Success:** *Senior Year* achieved 89 million unique views in its first 10 days, disproving claims that she wouldn't be funny after losing weight. - **Health Realities:** Pointed to her father's fatal heart attack from diabetes complications as the scary trajectory she was actively avoiding. - **Dramatic Roles:** Expanded into dramatic acting with *The Almond and the Seahorse* and playing Lady Capulet. - **Societal Treatment:** Experienced "pretty privilege" firsthand, noticing a jarring contrast in how attentive and helpful strangers became once she lost weight.

---

[01:17:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4678s) The Driven Workaholic and Balancing Motherhood

Despite reaching immense financial security, owning luxury homes worldwide, and finding deep personal contentment with her partner Ramona Agruma, Wilson admits that she remains an admitted workaholic. Bartlett notes that at age 42, after going through IVF and welcoming her daughter Royce, she spent a grueling nine months working seven days a week—filming the action movie *Bride Hard*, directing her directorial debut *The Deb*, and writing her memoir *Rebel Rising*. When asked what still drives her to push so hard, Wilson traces her unyielding work ethic back to her childhood.

As a young girl at dog shows, she used to forage inside garbage bins for aluminum cans to recycle for spare cash because her family was broke. That primal fear of scarcity implanted an enduring motivation to earn money and conquer ambitious targets. However, achieving initial targets—like breaking into Hollywood—simply shifted the goalposts to larger ones, such as winning an Academy Award. Bartlett questions whether pursuing an Oscar will bring actual fulfillment or if she risks regretting her priorities later in life. Wilson acknowledges this danger, revealing that her daughter Royce has completely shifted her center of gravity. Being a mother makes her want to pull back from the relentless hustle, embrace family time, and relinquish her lifelong need to constantly strive.

- **Non-Stop Workload:** Completed a 9-month marathon of working 7 days a week across *Bride Hard*, directing *The Deb*, and publishing her book. - **Root Motivation:** Traces her intense money drive to collecting cans from trash bins as a poor child at dog shows. - **Shifting Priorities:** Credits her daughter Royce with inspiring her to break the workaholic cycle and choose family life over relentless career expansion.

---

[01:20:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4828s) Redacted Pages, Defamation Laws, and the Sacha Baron Cohen Chapter

Bartlett pulls out a physical copy of Wilson's memoir, *Rebel Rising*, highlighting pages heavily redacted with thick black ink lines. Wilson clarifies that the UK publisher enforced these blackouts due to strict British defamation laws, which impose a significantly higher legal burden than the First Amendment protections in the United States. As a qualified lawyer herself, Wilson understood the publisher's desire to avoid litigious battles over the chapter titled "Sacha Baron Cohen and Other A**holes," which recounts what she describes as the worst professional experience of her career on the set of the 2016 film *Grimsby*.

Wilson elaborates on why she felt compelled to write about the experience, which left her feeling deeply humiliated and degraded. Clarifying that it was not an allegation of sexual assault, she describes it as an abusive work situation where she lacked the self-esteem to walk away. At the time—prior to the #MeToo movement—she felt bound by professionalism to stay, do re-shoots, and keep quiet, especially since both she and Cohen shared the same talent agency. She explains that publishing the chapter was not about "canceling" anyone, but rather about releasing the internalized shame she harbored for going along with scenes that crossed the line from character comedy into personal humiliation. Writing it was an act of personal processing, illustrating how far her self-worth has come from the person she was a decade ago.

- **Legal Redactions:** UK publishers redacted text in her memoir due to strict local libel laws, whereas the US edition contained the full chapter. - **The *Grimsby* Incident:** Details her degrading experience working with Sacha Baron Cohen 10 years prior, explaining how a lack of self-worth kept her on set. - **Motivation:** Published the account to shed years of personal shame, raise standards for workplace treatment, and show her growth into a woman who now stands up for herself.

---

[01:25:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5115s) Darkest Childhood Memories and Advice to Her 13-Year-Old Self

Reflecting on the toughest chapters of her life, Wilson pinpoints her early adolescence around age 13 as her absolute darkest era. Hitting puberty while living isolated out in the Australian bush—surrounded by snakes on the back porch and bush rats—left her feeling utterly unlovable, unworthy, and invisible. Though she was academically intelligent, she felt average, lonely, and convinced that her life would never amount to anything meaningful.

When Bartlett asks what advice she would offer to her 13-year-old self—or to any young person currently feeling isolated and invisible—Wilson emphasizes the power of personal agency and creative expression. She insists that no one is trapped in their current circumstances and that active steps can alter one's life path. She passionately advocates for the creative arts—whether acting, writing, painting, or simply journaling in a bedroom notebook—as the ultimate tool for finding one's voice. Creative outlets provide a safe harbor for self-expression when a person feels unheard by the world, serving as the bridge that allowed her to transform from a deeply shy child into an empowered creator.

- **Darkest Phase:** Age 13, living in isolation in the Australian bush, struggling with deep feelings of unworthiness and loneliness. - **Core Advice:** Message to young people that they have the agency to actively change their lives and build a better reality. - **Creative Outlets:** Highlights writing, music, and art as crucial tools for isolated youth to discover their identity and voice.

Here is the detailed walkthrough covering the final portion of the interview.

[01:29:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5351s) Being a "Late Bloomer" and Destigmatizing Personal Timelines

Rebel and Steven reflect on how personal choices and delayed milestones affect life trajectories, particularly for those who prioritize their careers early on. Steven notes that many people reach their late 30s, hear their biological clock ticking, and begin to re-evaluate two decades of choices. He praises Rebel’s memoir, *Rebel Rising*, for its raw honesty regarding her internal realization that significant life changes were required to pursue new priorities, proving that it is never too late to change. Rebel shares that she included her vulnerable virginity story—losing her virginity at age 35—specifically to remove the shame for other "late bloomers." While sharing it felt initially embarrassing, she hopes it reassures others that timing doesn't dictate a successful or fulfilling life.

- Rebel admits she was clearly avoidant toward romantic relationships in her earlier years and acknowledges a slight regret, though she maintains her career success stemmed from that intense singular focus. - She emphasizes that there should be no shame in blooming later in life, stating that all that truly matters is that happiness and fulfillment eventually arrived. - A slight lighthearted moment occurs when Rebel laughs at herself for repeatedly using the word "come" while explaining her point.

[01:31:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5484s) The Last Guest Question: Balancing Career Success and Family

Steven introduces the podcast’s signature closing tradition, reading a prompt left by the previous guest without knowing who would receive it: "Those people that you love the most, what is preventing you from spending enough time hugging them? Are you able to change this?" Rebel answers immediately, pointing to her immediate family—her partner, Ramona Agruma, and her young daughter. She explains that the main barrier is physically being separated across different cities or countries due to demanding work schedules, book promotion tours, or filming sets unsuitable for a baby.

- Rebel recognizes that she has full power to change this imbalance by refusing to take on excessive work commitments and intentionally prioritizing her family time.

[01:32:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5555s) Life Trade-offs, New Projects, and Final Words

Steven commends the memoir for authentically addressing core life questions around romance, fertility, self-worth, and the heavy trade-offs required of workaholics and high achievers. While discussing these trade-offs, Rebel agrees with the sentiment that while you might be able to have everything, "you can't have it all at the same time." Steven highlights her effortless humor and mentions her upcoming film, *The Almond and the Seahorse*, a drama focused on traumatic brain injury releasing in UK cinemas on May 10th. Rebel mentions that this movie marked a pivotal moment in her personal life, as kissing her co-star Charlotte Gainsbourg on set served as the catalyst for exploring her sexuality and ultimately meeting her partner. Rebel concludes by sharing that putting her most intimate, vulnerable thoughts into the world is nerve-wracking, but knowing it could positively impact even a handful of readers makes it completely worth it.

- *The Almond and the Seahorse* features her first onscreen and real-life romantic kiss with a woman, co-star Charlotte Gainsbourg. - Rebel reiterates that if even ten people relate to her story and take away something positive, publishing her memoir fulfills its purpose.

## Notable quotes > [05:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=319s) I think cause he was so angry all the time and money was a source of fighting in the household... he'd look at the other High Flyers, rich people who had a lot of money... and I definitely saw that he wanted to be that, but he wasn't that. — Rebel Wilson

> [10:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=629s) I saw my mom kind of became a shell of a woman and had to have every ounce of strength in order to get out of that relationship... and that left me thinking I will never get married. — Rebel Wilson

> [17:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1028s) I definitely get self-esteem and self-worth from achievements. — Rebel Wilson

> [18:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1103s) I felt like I was not good enough—I was like trash, and that's why I would trash my body, because I just felt like, well, I don't deserve anything different. — Rebel Wilson

> [22:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1320s) I read this article in the library that said that what your personality is at 15 will be your personality for life... I went, 'I'm so close to 15—if I don't change, this is going to be me forever.' — Rebel Wilson

> [28:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1709s) Johannesburg had the highest rape and murder rate in the world at that time, and there were guns everywhere and barbed wire fences and attack dogs... I had to carry a little wooden baton. — Rebel Wilson

> [32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1952s) People go, 'No, the malaria has affected your brain.' They thought I was nuts... I go, 'No, I've seen it, and I think I need to be an actress now.' — Rebel Wilson

> [39:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2394s) Normally if you want to sleep with somebody you're not wanting to laugh at them... the science of it is more people want to be your friend rather than they don't want to be your lover. — Rebel Wilson

> [54:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3246s) Yeah, but you're not healthy. — Fertility Doctor

> [59:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3564s) They're like, 'Oh no, no, no, why would you want to lose weight?... You lose your multi-million dollar pigeonhole that you've so successfully created.' — Rebel Wilson

> [01:06:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3997s) I'd waited so long at that point, I really wanted to lose my virginity to someone who I was really, really into... I don't think I could have done [the year of dating] if I was still a virgin going on all those dates. — Rebel Wilson

## Mentioned Rebel Wilson, Steven Bartlett, Rebel Rising, Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People, Tim Grover, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Eminem, Rotary Youth Ambassador program, University of New South Wales, Nicole Kidman, The Second City, Fat Pizza, Pitch Perfect, Bridesmaids, SAG-AFTRA, Lizzo, Anne Hathaway, The Hustle, Johann Hari, Lost Connections, Matt Lucas, Raya, Ozempic, Adele, Senior Year, John Candy, The Almond and the Seahorse, Ramona Agruma, Royce, Bride Hard, The Deb, Sacha Baron Cohen, Grimsby, Charlotte Gainsbourg

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs)

中文简报

Rebel Wilson放弃数百万好莱坞戏路专注减肥 这位澳大利亚女演员牺牲了高报酬喜剧角色并克服严重童年创伤,以优先实现长期健康与生育目标。 Rebel Wilson回顾了自己从受家庭功能失调和身材自卑困扰的极度害羞童年,到通过喜剧角色打造收益丰厚的好莱坞事业的历程。她详细讲述了自己如何有策略地将体型转化为喜剧资本、高度专注事业所付出的健康与个人代价,以及解决情绪化进食并优先考虑组建家庭的决定。Wilson还坦诚分享了较晚达成的个人生活里程碑、使用减肥药物的经历,以及通过回忆录《Rebel Rising》消化过往创伤的过程。 Rebel Wilson 回忆童年因家庭动荡与父亲的暴躁虐待而极度内向自卑,14岁时她通过自制社交训练、强迫自己每天主动与5个陌生人交谈,成功重塑了外向性格。 (24:39) 在南非期间,她因患重度疟疾住院并产生自己荣获奥斯卡奖的逼真幻觉,这一转折点促使她毅然放弃原本的法律道路,转向追求演艺生涯。 (32:32) 20岁出头确诊多囊卵巢综合征(PCOS)导致体重激增30公斤后,Wilson 巧妙将体型转化为独特的喜剧武器,凭借《伴娘》和《完美音调》中的“胖艾米”等角色开辟出利润丰厚的好莱坞戏路。 (39:54) 虽然事业大获成功,但她长期受困于低自尊与情绪性进食,直到39岁受到生育医生的严肃健康警示,才不顾团队可能丧失角色的反对,决心开启减重与生活转型。 (54:06)

Reading summary

In an interview on The Diary Of A CEO, actress and author Rebel Wilson explains how childhood instability and severe low self-worth fueled an obsessive drive that led her to strategically monetize her weight in Hollywood, while simultaneously delaying her personal and romantic life. Childhood Trauma and Compensatory Ambition (4:06) Wilson traces her adult workaholism to a turbulent childhood marked by financial stress, social isolation, and an unpredictable, angry father whose verbal abuse left her mother a 'shell of a woman.' Growing up in a household where emotions were suppressed and validation was tied exclusively to top marks, Wilson internalized the belief that she was unworthy unless achieving perfection. Viewing her self-worth as conditional, she neglected her body and drove herself relentlessly through academic milestones, eventually completing a 10-year joint law degree while pursuing acting. Monetizing Weight as a Hollywood Strategy (39:54) After gaining 30 kilograms due to Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, Wilson noticed that heavier performers drew larger comedic reactions. Drawing on an academic theory from a university course titled 'Comedy and Power'—which argued that audiences laugh more freely at non-traditionally attractive figures—she deliberately leaned into playing larger comedic roles. While this strategy established a multi-million-dollar niche through breakthrough parts in 'Bridesmaids' and 'Pitch Perfect', it also trapped her professionally: studio contracts limited weight fluctuations to under 10 pounds, and her team actively warned that losing weight would destroy her brand. The Personal Cost of Delayed Adulthood (47:34) Wilson's singular career focus produced profound emotional stagnation. Fearing relationships after witnessing her parents' fraught marriage and painful seven-year divorce, she completely avoided romantic intimacy, remaining a virgin until age 35. Her weight functioned partly as an emotional shield against vulnerability and physical intimacy. It was only after reaching age 35 that she embarked on an intentional effort to date, using platforms like Raya to catch up on the relationship experience she had bypassed throughout her twenties. Health Wake-Up Call and Holistic Transformation (54:06) At age 39, a fertility specialist delivered an unvarnished assessment of her health, prompting Wilson to pivot away from acting offers worth an estimated $20 million to undertake a dedicated 'Year of Health' in 2020. Working with a specialist introduced by Anne Hathaway, she unpacked the emotional eating tied to childhood grief. She shed approximately 35 kilograms through rigorous exercise and diet, later trying Ozempic for several months to regulate satiety after regaining 10 kilograms amid directing and motherhood. Despite public pushback from fans fearing she would lose her comedic charm, she leveraged her transformation into dramatic roles and disproved critics with the success of 'Senior Year'. Reclaiming Boundaries and Prioritizing Family (80:28) With the release of her memoir 'Rebel Rising', Wilson addressed previously concealed workplace challenges, including a degrading experience on the set of the 2016 film 'Grimsby' with Sacha Baron Cohen that UK publishers heavily redacted under domestic defamation laws. Wilson framed publishing the account as releasing lingering shame over not standing up for herself earlier in her career. Following the birth of her daughter Royce with partner Ramona Agruma, she acknowledges that while scarcity fears once drove her seven-day workweeks, motherhood has finally compelled her to step back from non-stop professional pursuit. Wilson concludes that while intense professional ambition enabled immense commercial success, it forced severe trade-offs across health and relationships. Having achieved financial security and started a family, her ongoing challenge is resisting the ingrained urge to overwork and actively choosing presence over endless achievement.

精炼阅读摘要

演员兼编剧Rebel Wilson在访谈中阐述了她如何将早年的自卑心理与特殊体型转化为好莱坞的喜剧资本,以及在取得商业成功后,为解决健康危机与情感缺失所付出的重塑代价。她指出,职业上的极度专注曾是其逃避家庭创伤与亲密关系的防御机制,而真正的成长始于直面身心健康并打破对外部成就的单一依赖。 童年创伤与刻意重塑自我的原动力 (18:23) Wilson回忆自己童年时患有严重的社交害羞,家庭生活长期笼罩在父亲情绪失控与家庭暴力的阴影下。由于父亲常因经济压力爆发怒火并对其母亲施加言语侮辱,加之保守家庭缺乏情感沟通,Wilson自幼将自我价值完全绑定于学业成绩与外部认可,若考不到100分便自视为“垃圾”。14岁时,她在图书馆读到“15岁的性格将决定一生”的文章,出于对终生孤僻的恐惧,她制定了严格的行动计划——强迫自己每天主动与5名陌生人交谈,并通过参与戏剧班克服自卑。在南非担任扶轮青年大使期间,Wilson感染了重症疟疾并经历了两周昏迷,期间她幻象自己在奥斯卡领奖台上表演说唱,这一经历促使她放弃原本稳妥的法律职业道路,转而全力投身演艺事业。 “肥胖喜剧女孩”的商业变现与隐性代价 (39:54) 21岁左右确诊多囊卵巢综合征(PCOS)后,Wilson体重增加了约30公斤。在此期间,她通过大学课程《喜剧与权力》以及舞台观察意识到,观众通常不愿嘲笑具有性吸引力的角色,反而更容易被外形特殊或较胖的演员逗笑。她随即决定将体重作为职业工具,通过在《Fat Pizza》及《歌喉赞》(Pitch Perfect)中塑造“胖艾米”(Fat Amy)等标志性角色,建立起利润丰厚的喜剧利基市场。早期参演《伴娘》(Bridesmaids)时,她的片酬仅为3500美元,甚至不足以支付演员工会会费,曾一度靠每周60美元维持生计,但随后的全球爆红让她赚取了数百万美元。然而,这种将体型商业化的策略也锁定了她的生活:好莱坞合同严禁其体重增减超过10磅,而超负荷的工作与情感暴食使她在整个二十几岁乃至三十岁出头都未能恋爱,直到35岁才失去童贞并经历初吻。 生育警钟与破除情绪防线的“健康之年” (54:06) 39岁时,Wilson在咨询生育医生评估卵巢储备时,遭遇医生对其健康状况的直接批评,指出其过重体型严重降低了受孕概率。面对职业团队对破坏“肥胖吸金标签”的阻拦,以及可能损失超过2000万美元潜在片约的风险,她仍选择在2020年启动“健康之年”。在安妮·海瑟薇(Anne Hathaway)引荐的专科医生指导下,Wilson通过每周两次的情绪疗愈,逐渐意识到自己的体重实则是防御亲密关系和隔绝外界伤害的“情绪盾牌”。通过高强度锻炼与饮食调整,她成功减重约35公斤;后来在经历高压导演工作与育儿期间体重反弹约10公斤时,她也在医生指导下短期使用了GLP-1药物Ozempic来调节大脑饱腹感,帮助控制对甜食的无节制渴望。 解构耻感、职场维权与生活重心的转移 (77:58) 减重成功后,Wilson不仅以主演电影《毕业年》(Senior Year)在Netflix前10天突破8900万独立观看量的成绩反驳了“瘦下来就不搞笑”的质疑,还拓宽戏路出演了《杏仁与海马》等正剧角色。在回忆录《Rebel Rising》中,她坦诚公开自己在2019年一年内约会约50人的经历以祛除“大器晚成”的羞耻感,并揭露了2016年拍摄电影《特务贱谍》(Grimsby)期间遭受萨莎·拜伦·科恩(Sacha Baron Cohen)职场羞辱与恶劣对待的细节,强调公开并非为了抵制他人,而是为了彻底释放自己长达十年的内化耻感。Wilson坦承,童年在狗展垃圾桶捡易拉罐换钱的贫困记忆曾让她成为停不下来的工作狂,但伴侣Ramona以及通过代孕迎来的女儿Royce彻底改变了她的生活重心,使她决心减少过度的工作排期以陪伴家人。 Wilson认为高成就者固然可以通过高度聚焦达成罕见成就,但人生无法在同一时间拥有一切。尽管她已组建幸福家庭并尝试放慢生活节奏,但童年创伤残留的工作狂倾向与对艺术认可(如角逐奥斯卡)的野心,仍是她在平衡职业与母亲身份时持续面对的未解课题。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 该视频由 YouTube 知名商业与访谈频道《The Diary Of A CEO》(主持人为 Steven Bartlett)于 2024 年 5 月 6 日发布。视频简介介绍了嘉宾为澳大利亚著名女演员兼制片人瑞贝尔·威尔森(Rebel Wilson,代表作包括《伴娘》《完美音调》《乔乔的异想世界》等),本期节目深入探讨了其回忆录《Rebel Rising》背后的心路历程,涵盖童年创伤、利用体型在好莱坞突围、健康抉择与亲密关系等核心议题。 ## TL;DR 在本次对谈中,瑞贝尔·威尔森详尽回顾了自己从生活拮据、极度自闭害羞的原生家庭,到一场疟疾濒死幻觉后毅然转向演艺事业的戏剧性蜕变。确诊多囊卵巢综合征(PCOS)后,她敏锐地将体重激增转化为喜剧王牌,在好莱坞一炮而红并斩获千万报酬,却也因此付出了长期情感荒芜与健康透支的沉重代价。39岁时因强烈的生育渴望与医生的直言警醒,她顶住团队阻力推行“2020健康年”,通过清理童年情绪创伤成功减重35公斤。如今她直面职场霸凌与公众偏见,跨界担任导演并迎来女儿,用自身35岁才经历初恋的“大器晚成”故事鼓励更多人勇敢打破人生的预设框架。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话呈现出一种极为难得的真实、克制而又充满力量感的叙事基调,主持人温和深度的心理探寻与瑞贝尔毫无偶像包袱的坦诚剖白达成了高度共鸣。在触及家庭暴力、自尊匮乏和职场屈辱等至暗时刻时,现场弥漫着令人屏息的沉重与脆弱,但瑞贝尔骨子里的幽默机智与顽强生命力总能适时化解沉郁。听众仿佛跟随着她剥落一层层用体型与人设筑起的防御铠甲,见证了一个被创伤推着走的女性最终与自我全面和解的释然旅程。 ## Bulletin - [41:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2474s) Rebel Wilson 披露早年因多囊卵巢综合征(PCOS)骤增30公斤体重后,反向将其作为喜剧优势打入好莱坞,凭借《完美音调》中的“胖艾米”等角色建立起数千万美元价值的专属戏路。 - [54:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3243s) 39岁时强烈的生育愿望与医生的健康警示成为人生转折点,促使她在2020年顶着团队反对与合约限制开启“健康年”,通过处理童年创伤与心理咨询成功减重约35公斤。 - [01:09:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4158s) 在回忆录《Rebel Rising》中,Rebel 坦诚自身情感严重滞后,直到35岁才经历初夜,借此呼吁打破年龄与大器晚成的社会容貌焦虑,强调“何时盛开并不重要,重要的是终究迎来绽放”。 - [01:20:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4828s) 新书中因英国严苛诽谤法而涂黑的章节,记录了她十年前与萨莎·拜伦·科恩合作时遭受的职场霸凌与尊严践踏,以此反思好莱坞权力失衡与年轻演员为保住工作所做的妥协。 ## Key takeaways - [08:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=521s) 原生家庭充斥着父亲的情绪失控与家庭暴力,父母长达七年的离婚诉讼令 Rebel 幼年对亲密关系产生极度恐惧与防御心理。 - [14:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=851s) 家庭黑暗血脉赋予了她喜剧表演独特的锋芒与危险张力,而内心的低配得感则促使她通过追求满分与极端成就来换取自我价值。 - [22:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1322s) 青少年时期极度害羞甚至自我封闭,受“15岁性格定终生”警示的启发,她通过主动社交与母亲引导的戏剧课程逐步打破心理外壳。 - [31:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1878s) 在南非感染凶险疟疾期间,濒死幻象中看到自己获得奥斯卡并表演获奖说唱,成为她放弃法学生涯、毅然转行表演的命运转折点。 - [41:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2474s) 大学课程“喜剧与权力”让她领悟到体型带来的亲和力与笑点机制,成功将 PCOS 导致的暴肥转变为不可替代的喜剧演艺资产。 - [47:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2854s) 好莱坞极度聚焦的事业追求带来了巨大名利,但代价是情感与个人生活的发育停滞,直到30岁出头她才迎来人生首次约会。 - [50:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3007s) 拍摄《伴娘》片酬扣除工会费和礼服后倒贴入不敷出,经历了每周仅60美元的窘迫等待期后,才凭借《完美音调》实现全球性爆发。 - [57:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3432s) 生育医生直言其体态背后的不健康状态打破了她的心理防线,为了孕育未来新生命,她推掉全年工作开启“健康年”。 - [59:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3564s) 团队曾极力反对其减重,担心失去价值数千万美元的商业人设,且制片合同严苛限制演员大幅改变外貌与体重浮动。 - [01:02:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3733s) 身体转变的核心在于心理层面的创伤疗愈,剖析童年压抑与“情绪暴食”根源后,才真正打破了以往屡次反弹的恶性循环。 - [01:04:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3894s) 体重长期被她用作阻隔情感侵扰与性关注的心理铠甲,通过躲进“胖胖的搞笑好友”角色来避免暴露脆弱的真实自我。 - [01:15:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4540s) 瘦身后经历了从“透明人”到全社会主动献殷勤的极端外貌偏见反差,但戏路也随之大幅拓宽至严肃正剧与导演领域。 - [01:17:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4654s) 童年捡废品换钱的经历植根了深层的匮乏感,驱使她成为连轴转的工作狂,而女儿的诞生促使她重新校准家庭与陪伴的比重。 - [01:28:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5337s) 公开35岁破处等隐秘过往旨在给大器晚成者以宽容与安慰,人生虽有不同阶段的选择取舍,但终究能够迎来绽放。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=0s) 精彩片花与童年创伤预告 访谈伊始,一段快速剪辑呈现了 Rebel Wilson 人生中最黑暗与最戏剧化的碎片。她谈到职业生涯中最糟糕的一段经历,那发生在“Me Too”运动之前,让她深感屈辱与尊严受损。镜头随后切入她原生家庭的痛苦阴影:父亲曾毫无顾忌地辱骂母亲是“又肥又懒的母牛,没人会爱你”,家庭的创伤让她产生极度低下的自我价值感,进而通过暴饮暴食来糟蹋自己的身体。在觉得人生无望时,她偶然听到了励志磁带中的一句话——“勇敢的人会放下恐惧,勇往直前”,从此决心走向世界闯出一片天地。 在舞台表演中,Rebel 敏锐地发现观众特别喜欢嘲笑体型偏胖的人,于是她顺水推舟,将自己的体重转化为事业的跳板,体重一度飙升至 102 公斤。来到美国好莱坞后,她靠饰演“搞笑胖女孩”赚取了数百万美元,过上了看似光鲜亮丽的生活。然而,功成名就并未带来内心的充实:年过三十仍是处女、从未正经谈过恋爱,生理时钟的滴答声让她焦虑不已。当生育医生上下打量她并直言“你很不健康”时,她下定决心减重。然而,身边团队的第一反应却是极力阻拦,担心这会毁掉她价值数百万美元的演艺事业。可当被问及这是否是人生最艰难的时刻时,Rebel 坦言并非如此,她生命中最黑暗的深渊其实始于 13 岁那年。 ### [02:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=120s) 屏幕背后的内向童年与流动商贩家庭 主持人 Steven Bartlett 提到 Rebel Wilson 刚出版的回忆录《Rebel Rising》(反叛崛起),指出要理解一个人必须追溯其最初的成长背景。大众在荧幕上看到的 Rebel 往往是一个过度自信、性张扬、大胆粗鲁且无所顾忌的喜剧明星,但她直言现实中的自己恰恰相反。她在一个非常普通的澳大利亚郊区家庭长大,童年时期极度内向害羞,这种性格甚至接近某种社交障碍,以至于任何人都不可能预料到她未来会选择演艺事业。 她的家庭依靠在全澳各地的巡回狗展上做小买卖维生。一家人挤在一辆黄色大篷车里,四处奔波售卖宠物用品,包括捡狗屎的便携铲子、宠物毛刷以及狗链等。讽刺的是,Rebel 对狗严重过敏,但在当时她并不知情,直到成年后接受过敏源检测才恍然大悟,这也导致她的整个童年始终笼罩在一种莫名身体不适的阴影中。通过在回忆录中剖开这些早年记忆,她希望读者能看到一个与银幕形象截然不同的、更真实立体的自己。 ### [04:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=246s) 父亲的未竟梦想与失控暴怒 谈到父母,Rebel 的母亲是一位公立小学的优秀教师,主要负责幼儿园学前班,耐心帮助了大量难民儿童和非英语母语的学生;在部分时期,母亲也是全职家庭主妇。而她的父亲则有着深深的心理创伤:在高中最后一年、年仅 18 岁时,他的父亲突然且悲剧性地离世,彻底改变了他的人生轨迹。父亲原本一心想成为成功的商人,却因无法处理丧亲的心理创伤,一生都未能施展自己的抱负。 这种抱负未竟的挫败感转化为了常态化的暴怒。父亲偶尔会通过财团参股拥有赛马的 1/10 或 1/12 股份,当他带着家人去赛马场时,看着那些众星捧月、受人景仰的真正富豪,内心极度渴望成为其中一员,现实中却无人问津。Rebel 后来在父亲车后座的健身包里发现了一堆励志磁带(包括《人性的弱点》等关于销售和经商的技巧),父亲虽从未提起,但他内心其实极度渴望改变自我,只是缺乏必要的情感技能与心理支持。在当时的澳洲社会,心理咨询与创伤治疗并不普遍,压抑的痛苦最终化为了不可理喻的家庭暴怒:父亲常常在正常交谈中毫无预兆地满脸涨红,“就像一个瞬间膨胀的红气球”,随即爆发可怕的言语与肢体攻击。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 父亲情绪创伤恶性循环图 accDescr: 展示父亲自18岁丧父后的心理创伤演变为暴怒与家庭虐待的循环过程 subgraph 创伤根源 A["18岁突然丧父<br>人生轨道偏离"] --> B["情绪创伤未获救治<br>缺乏心理疏导"] end subgraph 现实挫败 B --> C["渴望商业成功<br>现实屡屡受挫"] C --> D["赛马场阶层落差<br>暗中听励志磁带求变"] end subgraph 创伤外化 D --> E["极端暴怒与失控<br>面色涨红如红气球"] E --> F["对妻子:言语羞辱与经济剥削"] E --> G["对孩子:突发性肢体暴力打骂"] end ``` ### [08:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=521s) 泼水降温事件与持续的家庭虐待 为了具象化父亲的失控暴力,Rebel 讲述了大约 8 岁时发生的一场噩梦。那是一个典型的澳洲炎夏,气温高达 36 摄氏度,全家刚跑完狗展回家,闷热难耐。年幼的 Rebel 和 6 岁的妹妹 Liberty 想出一个降温的法子——把水倒在床垫和床单上,试图躺在湿润的凉意中避暑。然而,父亲推门进来后误以为她们是在故意尿床,瞬间像被触发了机关一样暴跳如雷,对两个年幼的孩子实施了残酷的拳打脚踢。 Rebel 清晰地记得自己当时深陷极度的自责与罪恶感中,不断质问自己为什么要想出弄湿床单这种“调皮”的蠢办法来惹父亲生气。多年后与妹妹对质这段往事时,妹妹虽记不清这一特定事件,却对多次类似的毒打记忆犹新。这种家庭暴力不仅限于对孩子们的拳脚相向,更延伸为对母亲持久的言语羞辱与经济虐待: - **言语与情感虐待**:父亲每天回家都会对母亲恶语相向,咒骂她是“又肥又懒的母牛,一天到晚什么都不干”、“这辈子绝不会有人爱你”。 - **经济控制与嗜赌**:父亲强行掌控家里的财政大权,随后将维持生计的钱拿去赌博输光,使整个家庭频繁陷入揭不开锅的财务困境。 - **家暴的常态化**:对年幼的孩子施加毫无道理的肢体殴打,在当时的家庭环境中几乎成了无法逃避的家常便饭。 ### [11:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=679s) 原生家庭的阴影与对亲密关系的抗拒 Rebel Wilson 谈到在她成长的环境中,体罚孩子十分普遍,甚至有朋友的父亲会用皮带来抽打孩子,相比之下自家的处境在当时似乎并不算特例。如今作为母亲,她完全无法想象对孩子动手的场景,但在那个年代,大家对这种暴力习以为常。主持人 Steven 提及其中的心理投射:父母的相处往往构成了孩子对爱与亲密关系的最初模板,看到父母的互动模式,往往会让人下意识产生“我绝对不要步入恋爱”的防御心理。Rebel 对此深有共鸣,直言正是因为目睹了母亲在婚姻中逐渐被消磨成一个“空壳般的女人”,必须拼尽全身力气才在 Rebel 十六七岁时逃离那段婚姻,才让她彻底对亲密关系产生恐惧。父亲的失控与暴怒从来不会在公众场合或外人面前表露,永远只发生在紧闭的家门之内。这种虚伪与压抑让她认定婚姻毫无爱意可言,发誓这辈子绝不踏入婚姻殿堂。 她在十六岁时曾谈过一个男朋友,然而对方却出轨了她的朋友。这一背叛让她彻底关上了情感的大门,在整个青春期直至二十多岁的岁月中,她没有和任何人约会过。母亲的经历始终是一记警钟——父母离婚官司整整拉扯了七年,所有的积蓄全被高昂的诉讼费掏空,最终让母亲几乎身无分文(尽管母亲如今已重新订婚,找到了非常体贴善良的伴侣)。在 Rebel 当时的认知里,浪漫关系只会带来痛苦、将人拖入深渊,并剥夺展现真实自我的机会。她暗下决心要独自走向世界,闯出一番事业并赢得成功。这种抗拒亲密关系的念头一直根深蒂固,直到多年后她真正功成名就,在空旷的高处体会到彻骨的孤独时,才开始反思自己是否该重新接纳改变。 - **父亲的暴怒隐蔽性**:暴力与情绪失控仅发生在家中,对外维持正常表象,这种割裂感加深了家庭环境的窒息感。 - **长达七年的离婚官司**:父母分离过程漫长痛苦,律师费耗尽家庭资产,给年轻的 Rebel 留下了“亲密关系即灾难”的极深负面印象。 - **长达十余年的情感封锁**:从十六岁遭遇背叛后,整个二十多岁期间未与任何人约会,全力扑在事业追求上。 --- ### [14:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=851s) 家族的“黑暗面”与喜剧灵感的来源 Steven 引用了 Rebel 自传中的一句话:“我认为我身上的某些黑暗面源自我的父亲,那一边的家族绝对有着流放犯的历史,充满了各种见不得光的事情。”Steven 借此提起他曾采访过的著名训练师 Tim Grover(曾长期执教迈克尔·乔丹和科比·布莱恩特),指出每个人都有自己的黑暗面,且光明的一面往往是由黑暗面锤炼而成的。当被问及这股黑暗力量究竟代表什么时,Rebel 坦言,好莱坞许多同行成长于父母恩爱、一帆风顺的优渥家庭,但这些演员的作品有时显得过于平淡无奇("very vanilla")。虽然他们很有才华,但缺乏一种令人着迷的层次与张力。 Rebel 认为自己的幽默感与个性是由两种截然相反的血脉杂交而成的:母亲那一侧的亲戚带来了明朗、轻快的特质;而父亲那一侧则深陷于酗酒、成瘾和底层边缘的混乱泥潭。这种复杂的血统让她有时会产生一种近乎“黑手党式的复仇快感”,脑海中偶尔会冒出想要报复某些人的狠戾念头,连她自己都会为这种黑暗冲动的强烈程度感到心惊。然而,正是这种游走在边缘的粗粝质感,赋予了她的喜剧表演一种独特的锐利锋芒(edginess)与不可预测性。她既能展现纯粹的喜感,又隐隐带着一丝近乎残酷的狠劲,正是这种光明与黑暗的交织,让她作为表演者变得独树一帜。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Rebel Wilson 的性格构成与艺术张力来源 accDescr: 展示母亲家族的光明面与父亲家族的黑暗面如何交融形成其独特的喜剧风格与性格。 subgraph Heritage ["家族源流"] direction LR MomSide["母亲家族:光明特质<br/>(积极、温和、轻快)"] DadSide["父亲家族:流放犯与边缘背景<br/>(成瘾、酗酒、暗黑、复仇欲)"] end subgraph InternalDynamics ["内在融合"] direction LR DualNature["双重人格特质<br/>(既有明朗亲和,又有黑帮般的狠劲)"] end subgraph ArtisticImpact ["艺术表达"] ComedyStyle["喜剧风格打破平庸<br/>(拒绝单薄乏味,充满锋芒与危险张力)"] end MomSide --> DualNature DadSide --> DualNature DualNature --> ComedyStyle ``` --- ### [17:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1034s) “我不够好”的执念与成就驱动 自传封面上醒目地写着 Rebel 内心长期盘旋的疑问:“我真的足够好吗?”Steven 对这种深刻的不配得感感同身受,并探讨这种心态究竟是让人拥有了“自我驱动力”(driven),还是实际上被某种创伤“强行拖拽着前进”(dragged)——表面看起来都在拼命工作,但被拖拽的人往往无法自我掌控,停不下来,最终沦为工作狂。Rebel 坦承自己确实是将自我价值完全建立在成就之上:学生时代每门考试都必须争取拿到满分 100 分,只有不断赢取奖项和奖杯,才能短暂获得良好感觉;一旦失败,便会陷入强烈的自厌。她更深层地剖析道,自己长期的暴饮暴食与糟蹋身体,本质上正是低自尊的投射——因为潜意识里觉得自己像“垃圾”,所以觉得自己的身体只配被垃圾食物填满。 追溯这种自卑感的起源是一个复杂的心理过程。Rebel 提到了一些极为细微却影响深远的社会与家庭因素: - **重男轻女的地域文化**:在她成长的地区,男孩总能轻易获得更多赞誉。甚至在犬展的青少年训犬比赛(Junior handling)中,只要有男孩参赛,评委往往就会把冠军直接判给男孩;邻近的男校设施豪华,拥有数百万美元的专业剧院,而她所在的女校却备受冷落。 - **保守家庭的情感失语**:尽管她确信父母在心底是爱她的,但家庭氛围极度保守,从不公开表达爱意与情绪。她无法从言语互动中确认被爱,唯有考到年级第一、赢得奖杯时,才能换来父母的赞扬与关注。 - **成长过程中的微创伤累积**:自尊心并非与生俱来,而是需要被持续浇灌与确认。从未被选为主角、永远站在队伍边缘或背景板中、旁人不经意的轻视评价,这些微小的冷落日积月累,最终在十三四岁的敏感年纪,铸成了一座“我不够好”的心灵牢笼。 ### [22:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1322s) 青春期的极端害羞与图书馆的顿悟 Rebel Wilson 谈及自己青少年时期极度缺乏安全感的模样。除了非常普通的外貌,她当时还长着一颗歪斜畸形的虎牙(snaggle tooth):“就像单边长了颗獠牙,甚至算不上什么很酷的吸血鬼造型。”那时的她害羞到痛苦的程度,哪怕老师提问的问题她心里完全知道答案,只要被点名站起来,整张脸就会瞬间涨得通红,这让她感到无比窘迫。更艰难的是,她几乎没有任何朋友,内心常常自我否定,觉得自己既不好看也不酷,别人凭什么愿意和自己交朋友。 十三四岁是 Rebel 人生中最灰暗的阶段之一。当时大部分同龄人都在开始建立自我认同,而她每天午餐时间都独自躲在图书馆里默默看书吃便当。某天,她在图书馆读到一篇文章,上面写道:“一个人在 15 岁时形成的性格,将伴随其一生。”这个观点如同一记重锤击中了即将年满 15 岁的 Rebel。她意识到自己绝不能在沉默、孤立和自我封闭中度过余生。尽管害羞有时可以转化为善于察言观色的超能力,但她渴望拥有朋友、享受生活并融入人群。这个顿悟迫使她下定决心:必须找到策略,打破这层厚厚的外壳。 ### [24:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1479s) 走出舒适圈的“蜕变策略”与反叛标签 为了彻底改变自己毫无表情、如同茧一样的状态,Rebel 开始借助励志录音带和戴尔·卡耐基(Dale Carnegie)《人性的弱点》(*How to Win Friends and Influence People*)中的方法制定实践计划: - **每天与五位陌生人交谈**:她强迫自己在公交车上或走入校门时,主动向身边的同学打招呼。在这个过程中,她意识到原来许多人同样孤单,主动的一句问候甚至可能成为对方当天最开心的时刻。 - **主动参与集体**:不再被动地坐在图书馆等待朋友出现,而是积极报名参加学校的各类运动队和社团俱乐部。 - **通过出格行为树立人设**:就像说唱歌手 Eminem 早期通过极具争议和惊世骇俗的作品迅速打响知名度一样,生性乖巧的 Rebel 决定通过故意在学校做一些违规出格的淘气举动来吸引注意。她认为必须先让人记住名字、建立名声,才能进一步获得关注和欢迎;而一旦建立了地位,便不再需要维持那种叛逆手段。 这种对同龄人认可的渴望最初只是想交朋友、受邀参加派对,但随后演变成了对尊重与存在感的追求。 ### [27:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1628s) 戏剧课的救赎与表演的面具 察觉到女儿孤立无援的困境,Rebel 的母亲决定通过艺术来挽救她的自尊心与自信心。母亲带她去社区中心报了戏剧班。当时性格封闭的 Rebel 对此抗拒到极点,在车上用手指死死抠住车门不肯下来,几乎是被母亲强行拖出车厢,场面十分痛苦而具有戏剧性。母亲此举并非期盼家里出一个职业演员——毕竟整个家族毫无演艺界背景——纯粹是希望戏剧能治愈她的自闭倾向。 出乎意料的是,表演确实为极度害羞的她打开了一扇逃生门。在舞台上扮演他人成为一种绝佳的隐蔽:“因为那不是我,那是另一个人。”借由角色的掩护,Rebel 能够毫无心理负担地释放自我,而角色身上的自信也逐渐反哺到了现实生活中的她。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 害羞少女的蜕变与自我重塑路径 accDescr: 展示 Rebel Wilson 从极端害羞通过主动社交、出格行为与戏剧治疗逐步建立自信并走向世界的过程。 subgraph Phase1["自我孤立阶段"] A["长相自卑与社交恐惧"] --> B["图书馆午餐与自我封闭"] B --> C["读到'15岁性格定终生'警示"] end subgraph Phase2["系统性突破行动"] C --> D["每天与5位陌生人交谈"] C --> E["加入社团 & 制造出格事件破圈"] C --> F["被母亲强拉参加社区戏剧课"] end subgraph Phase3["自信建立与外向扩展"] D & E --> G["摆脱孤立并赢得同龄人关注"] F --> H["借由扮演角色获得自信反哺"] G & H --> I["参加辩论与公开演讲"] end ``` ### [28:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1710s) 逃离家庭阴影与远赴南非的文化冲击 主持人在对话中指出,Rebel 骨子里存在着两股核心驱动力:一是对外界认可的渴求,二是贫困家庭背景下对学术和物质成功的执念。Rebel 自小就通过倒卖物品展现经商头脑,学业成绩也名列前茅。16 岁时,为了逃离父母冲突不断的家庭环境,她考入寄宿学校并继续保持顶尖成绩。 高中最后一年,Rebel 偶然成为一起重案调查组(Major Crime Squad)刑事案件的目击证人,并在法庭上出庭作证。她冷静出色的庭审表现给相关人员留下了深刻印象,随后她被引荐参加了国际扶轮社(Rotary)的“青年大使计划”(Youth Ambassador Program)。凭借此前为了克服害羞而苦练的辩论与公开演讲技巧,她顺利通过选拔。 该项目在每个选区仅挑选一男一女派往未知国家,Rebel 被分配到了南非。起初,酷爱电影《狮子王》(*The Lion King*)的她对非洲大陆充满了浪漫想象,但真正抵达后,迎接她的却是种族隔离制度结束不久后的严峻现实: - **极度严峻的社会治安**:与高度安全的澳大利亚截然不同,当年的约翰内斯堡面临着全球最高的强奸与谋杀率,四处是枪支、铁丝网与凶猛的防暴犬。 - **随身携带防身警棍**:Rebel 必须随身携带一根如同老式卡通片里警察使用的木质短警棍(wooden baton),以防遭遇不测时自卫击打袭击者的头部。 ### [31:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1878s) 疟疾幻觉与改变一生的天职预言 在南非期间,Rebel 感染了极为凶险的恶性疟疾(malaria),高烧不退被紧急送医。主持人此时分享了自己在非洲同样因疟疾产生幻觉的奇特共鸣——幼年时因发烧看见床边站着一个“影子人”(Shadow Man),父母甚至以为那是救了他的“守护天使”。 Rebel 则回忆,自己在病房里经历了神志不清的致命高烧与幻觉。正是这场濒死的疟疾幻象,彻底颠覆了她的整个人生规划:她在幻象中无比清晰地看见自己未来成为了一名优秀的专业演员,甚至在好莱坞斩获奥斯卡奖。Rebel 坦言,如果没有经历非洲的这场重病,她永远不会拥有这股转行的冲动与幻象,而是会老老实实回澳大利亚读完法学院,度过平凡的律师人生。 ### [32:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1961s) 疟疾幻觉中的奥斯卡与“说唱致辞” 在南非感染严重疟疾住院期间,大剂量的药物治疗让瑞贝尔·威尔森(Rebel Wilson)产生了一种灵魂脱壳般的强烈幻觉。在幻觉中,她不仅成了一名演技精湛的女演员,甚至站在了奥斯卡金像奖的领奖台上。由于以前只在电视上看颁奖典礼,这幅画面在脑海中格外真实:两侧是盛装出席的电影人,而她沿着红毯走上舞台,发表的不是传统的获奖感言,而是一段“硬核”的获奖说唱(acceptance rap)。在此之前,她一直因为觉得说唱歌手帅气、自信而梦想成为一名说唱歌手,甚至还和妹妹组过一个业余说唱组合。 在医院足足躺了两周康复出院后,瑞贝尔坚信这个梦境是指引自己命运的神圣启示,并向周围人宣布自己要成为一名演员。身边所有人都觉得她疯了,断定是疟疾烧坏了大脑,纷纷劝阻她:“你刚刚考上了全澳洲最好的法学院,应该去读法律,过体面而成功的职业生活。”但瑞贝尔意志坚决,她甚至提前一个月结束了原本为期一年的南非项目,赶回澳洲报考一所戏剧学院。不出所料,毫无表演底子的她直接被拒之门外,在当时的世俗眼光里,根本没人会把她和“女演员”画上等号。 从这次幻觉到她真正能靠演戏维持生计,中间整整隔了五年。瑞贝尔年轻时深受奥普拉(Oprah Winfrey)节目的启发,坚信“宇宙的提示最初是耳语,接着便会像砖块砸向你”。多年后再回看,她也不确定这究竟是药物引发的狂想、神圣的命运指引,还是长期深埋于潜意识中、从未敢对任何人言说的渴望。她在高中曾热衷于舞台剧和音乐剧,虽然从未演过主角,却极其享受其中,只是在传统观念里,她从不认为像自己这样普通的外貌能在演艺圈拥有一席之地。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 瑞贝尔从疟疾幻觉到确立演员职业的心理转变路径 accDescr: 展现瑞贝尔在南非感染疟疾、产生奥斯卡幻觉、回国追逐表演并最终转向喜剧的决策过程 subgraph SG1["南非经历与觉醒"] A["南非感染重度疟疾"] --> B["药物引发真实幻觉<br/>获得奥斯卡并表演获奖说唱"] B --> C["认定演戏是人生天命<br/>提前回国报考戏剧学校遭拒"] end subgraph SG2["现实平衡与突破"] C --> D["坚持攻读法学以报答父母"] D --> E["耗时十年半工半读<br/>奔波于法学院考勤与片场之间"] E --> F["21岁自编剧本获奖<br/>获得9万澳元资助公演"] end subgraph SG3["身体转变与喜剧定位"] F --> G["确诊PCOS导致体重骤增30公斤"] G --> H["大学选修课程启发:喜剧与权力"] H --> I["将体型劣势转为核心优势<br/>获得妮可·基德曼奖学金深造喜剧"] end ``` ### [36:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2160s) 耗时十年的法学学位与双面人生 回到澳洲后,瑞贝尔并未立刻放弃学业,而是开始了法学与文学双学位的漫长征程。坚持读完大学在很大程度上是为了满足父亲的心结:她的父亲当年从大学商学院辍学,一生最大的遗憾就是没有拿到学位。而在澳洲,法学和医学是公认顶尖聪颖的孩子才会选择的专业。父母为了供她读名校付出了巨大的经济牺牲,父亲除了经营宠物用品生意,甚至长年在加油站值大夜班来为她挣校服费。考入顶尖法学院并在知名律所任职,对她的父母而言是证明一切学费付出都值得的唯一成功标志;相比之下,母亲对她最奢侈的期望仅仅是过上“普通人的生活”,交到朋友、建立恋爱关系,绝不希望她成为抛头露面的公众人物。 这门原本五年制的基础双学位,瑞贝尔整整念了十年才毕业。延毕的主要原因在于她早已一脚踏入了演艺圈,先是演舞台剧,随后进入电视剧剧组。当时所在的法学院设有严苛的“80%出勤率规则”,只要缺席超过两成,无论成绩如何都必须重修整门课程。为了不挂科,她过着极其煎熬的生活:常常因为在其他州拍戏,清晨4点就要爬起来赶飞机飞回悉尼去法学院打卡上课,当天傍晚再搭飞机赶回拍摄地,在片场和讲堂之间疯狂折返。 ### [38:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2319s) 自编自演与多囊卵巢综合征(PCOS)带来的骤变 在追求表演的道路上,瑞贝尔自认起步很晚,大约十八九岁才开始上正规的表演课程,而身边许多演员早在十二三岁就已入行。二十一岁那年,她仅用了两个晚上写出了生平第一部剧本,意外在一项剧作比赛中夺冠并成功搬上舞台。随后,一家电视台向她提供了9万澳元的资金赞助,让她得以将该剧进行专业的商业演出。这次经历让她清醒地意识到一个现实:主流影视圈里没有人会把自己视作妮可·基德曼(Nicole Kidman)那种传统意义上的女主角,如果想在行业内出头,就必须自己创作剧本、为自己定制角色。到了23岁,她终于成为一部电视剧的常驻演员,拿到了第一份能够自给自足的全职演员薪资。 也正是在21到22岁之间,瑞贝尔的身体发生了剧烈转变。她被确诊患有多囊卵巢综合征(PCOS),该疾病最显著的症状之一就是体重的迅猛飙升。在此之前,她的体型非常标准且带有一点运动线条,但由于激素失调,她的体重在短时间内暴增了30公斤,手臂上也开始出现深色体毛等其他雄激素过高的病理表征。 ### [41:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2474s) “喜剧与权力”:将体重转化为喜剧利器 体重暴增对绝大多数年轻女演员而言几乎是职业生涯的毁灭性打击,但瑞贝尔却敏锐地捕捉到了它背后的另一种力量。早在她21岁排演自编的第一部舞台剧时,剧组里有一位体型偏胖的女演员。尽管瑞贝尔给每个角色平均分配了笑点,但那位大码女演员一上台,观众席上的笑声总是远远盖过其他所有人。瑞贝尔当时便隐约察觉到:“人们天生更喜欢嘲笑体型偏胖的人。” 在大学选修了一门名为“喜剧与权力”(Comedy and Power)的课程后,她从心理学与社会学层面彻底弄懂了幽默的机制: - **吸引力与笑声的对立**:当一个人对某人产生性吸引力、想要与其发展亲密关系时,通常不会倾向于去嘲弄或大笑对方; - **身体特征与喜剧亲和力**:能引发哄堂大笑的角色,往往拥有鲜明的外貌特征或某种生理异质性(例如极高、极矮、硕大的鼻子或丰满庞大的体型); - **朋友心态取代情人视角**:在喜剧语境中,观众并不想成为大码角色的“情人”,而是本能地想成为其“朋友”,觉得他们随和、有趣、适合在一起打趣玩闹。 意识到这点后,瑞贝尔做出了一个颠覆常规的职业决定:她不再强行追求严肃的正剧女演员路线,而是彻底拥抱喜剧。她没有自怨自艾地把急速发胖视作灾难,反而将其视作“喜剧工具箱里最趁手的一件工具”。市场的反馈立竿见影:台下的笑声变得更加狂热,她的片酬和演出机会水涨船高。此后,她甚至赢得了由妮可·基德曼资助的奖学金,得以前往纽约知名的第二城即兴喜剧学院(The Second City)深造,彻底确立了自己在喜剧领域的非凡优势。 ### [43:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2601s) 体重带来的职业红利与健康代价的内心矛盾 Rebel Wilson 在为撰写回忆录翻阅过往日记时发现,自己对体重的执念早在16岁时便已萌芽。当时的她身材并不胖,热爱多项体育运动,身体非常健康,但日记里的第一个目标居然是“减掉两公斤”。这源于母亲无意间的一句话——母亲自身饱受体重问题困扰,随口觉得如果女儿减掉两公斤或许自我感觉会更好。然而,当她后来真正大幅发胖后,内心产生了一种强烈的割裂感。一方面,她意识到在喜剧行业中,较胖的女性往往更容易脱颖而出,丰满的身材能为自己精准定位一个生态位,成为通往成功的敲门砖;23岁那年,她正是凭借这一特质出演了澳大利亚热门喜剧《Fat Pizza》(胖子披萨)。剧中她被戏称为“鲸鱼角色”,扮演男主角极力隐藏的肥胖女友,整个剧集的笑点就建立在男方因为她太胖而羞于公开恋情上。 但硬币的另一面是她对自我健康的极度漠视与摧残。她深知自己的饮食习惯糟糕透顶,日常几乎全靠碳水化合物维生。在纽约进修喜剧学校期间,她的晚饭常常仅是一整桶冰淇淋或一大整袋薯片。她的内心时刻进行着激烈的拉扯:一边告诉自己要保持自信,这种外形对职业发展大有裨益;另一边却清醒地意识到自己根本没有善待身体,正在走向严重的不健康。 - **早年身体状态**:16岁时运动机能极佳、积极参与各类体育运动,却因母亲的一句话定下了减重2公斤的最初目标。 - **早期荧幕角色**:23岁出演澳大利亚喜剧《Fat Pizza》中的 Toula,角色设定为男主角因其肥胖而羞于承认的“鲸鱼女友”。 - **极端饮食模式**:在纽约学习喜剧期间,晚餐常以一整品脱冰淇淋或一整大包薯片充饥,营养摄入几乎全为碳水化合物。 ### [45:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2726s) 扮演“胖女孩”的尊严代价与现实中的冒犯 主持人提出疑问:在影视作品中饰演一个让别人感到丢脸、避之不及的角色,究竟会不会在潜意识中侵蚀演员的自尊心?Rebel 解释道,作为演员,她通常能在表演与现实自我之间设立防火墙,戏里的搭档私下里也都非常尊重她,她很庆幸能获得演出机会并以此赚钱。然而,现实中的界限并不总是泾渭分明。有一次她在邮局寄信,一名剧迷当场认出了她,并直接用剧中的角色名大喊:“噢,Toula!他真有趣!”该路人甚至在现实生活中公然复述剧中那些贬损她的台词。那一刻,Rebel 感受到了切实的刺痛。她没有回击,只是默默走出邮局,心里暗想对方是个分不清虚构喜剧与真实人类的蠢货。 然而,当她转战好莱坞,凭借《Pitch Perfect》(完美音调)中极具代表性的“胖艾米”(Fat Amy)一角爆红并赚得数百万美元时,她发现自己很难去同情曾经受挫的自己。好莱坞将“胖而幽默的女孩”变现成真金白银,她当时的想法非常简单:只要能取得世俗意义上的成功,付出任何代价似乎都是值得的。直到多年之后,她才将重心从金钱与名气转移到真正的身心健康上。 ### [47:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2854s) 像奥运选手般极度专注背后的生活“停滞” 谈及成功与个人成长的失衡,主持人与 Rebel 产生了强烈共鸣:人们往往在世俗眼光中达到了巅峰,却在作为完整人类所需的其他诸多维度上严重残缺。Rebel 直言,作为一个澳大利亚演员,先在本土成名再闯荡好莱坞并跻身一线的概率只有几百万分之一。为了击败这种极端的概率,她必须拿出如同奥运体操运动员般的严苛专注与牺牲精神。但正如许多顶尖运动员一样,由于将整个人生押注在单一技能上,离开赛场后在人际交往与个人生活上往往呈现出一种“心理发育停滞”(Stunted)的状态。 在外人看来,Rebel 是母校有史以来最成功的风云人物,名利双收,甚至能坐在洛杉矶湖人队主场的场边第一排观赛;但剥开这层光环,她的私人生活却一片荒芜。由于对事业近乎偏执的聚焦,她直到30岁出头才迎来人生中的第一次约会,在此之前完全没有任何亲密关系与恋爱经历。她在一个领域登峰造极,却在社交、情感与身体健康这三大板块严重缺席,付出了惨痛的代际代价。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 职业成功与个人生活失衡结构图 accDescr: 展示了极端聚焦带来的事业成就与个人生活各维度的代价 subgraph Cost["付出的代价(发育停滞)"] C1["情感空白:30岁前无恋爱经历"] C2["健康透支:极端饮食与体重失控"] C3["社交孤立:缺乏真实亲密关系"] end subgraph Career["极致聚焦(百万分之一的概率)"] A["奥运选手般的专注投入"] --> B["好莱坞一线喜剧演员地位"] end Career -.->|"严重挤压与代价"| Cost ``` ### [50:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3007s) 倒贴钱拍《伴娘》到凭借《完美音调》实现逆袭 回顾初抵美国的好莱坞闯荡史,Rebel 披露了鲜为人知的艰难起步。她在美国获得的第一份工作是出演经典喜剧电影《Bridesmaids》(伴娘)。尽管这部电影口碑票房双丰收,但她拿到的片酬仅有可怜的 3,500 美元。这笔微薄的收入扣除上交演员工会(SAG-AFTRA)的入会费后所剩无几,加上她必须自费购买参加电影首映礼的礼服等开销,拍完这部戏不仅分文未赚,反而倒贴了钱。 好莱坞电影制作周期漫长,从拍摄完毕到正式上映通常需要整整一年时间。在等待《伴娘》公映的那一年里,Rebel 陷入了极其穷困潦倒的境地。在扣除房租和租车费用后,她在洛杉矶每周仅剩 60 美元用于一切生活开支。她没有任何社交娱乐或派对生活,所有的精力都用来闭门写剧本和四处试镜。直到一年后《伴娘》上映引发轰动,她的事业迎来了爆发式转机,一口气拿下了六部电影的片约,其中就包括彻底改变她命运的“黄金门票”——《Pitch Perfect》(完美音调)。该系列最终成为影史票房最高的音乐喜剧电影系列,将她推向了全球顶级巨星的行列。 - **《伴娘》片酬账单**:税前片酬仅 3,500 美元,全额用于支付演员工会入会费,因自费购置首映礼服而整体亏损。 - **贫困守候期**:电影上映前整整一年处于极度拮据状态,扣除刚性居住与交通开销后,每周生活费仅 60 美元。 - **事业大爆发**:凭借《伴娘》上映后的巨大反响,连续锁定6部好莱坞电影合约,直接奠定了《完美音调》现象级IP的诞生。 ### [53:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3190s) 渴望成为母亲:体内如鳄鱼吞表般响起的生理时钟 当事业达到巅峰后,常人往往认为可以放松享受生活,但 Rebel 却迎来了人生的另一个重大拐点:她渴望成为一名母亲。过去的她一心扑在演艺事业上,加之影视行业极度以自我为中心(egocentric),她从未设想过自己能拥有家庭,甚至一度悲观地认定自己永远不可能找到人生伴侣。 然而,在30岁末期,她身体内部的生理时钟突然被彻底唤醒。她形象地将这种心理剧变比喻为童话《小飞侠》(Peter Pan)中那只吞了钟表的鳄鱼——肚子里清晰地传出巨大而急促的“滴答、滴答”声。这个声音强有力地催促着她,提醒她如果现在不立刻行动,一切就将永远来不及。这一本能的觉醒,促使她走进了生殖科医生的诊室,彻底拉开了她人生与健康转型的新篇章。 ### [54:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3243s) 生育医生的当头棒喝:“你并不健康” Rebel Wilson 谈到自己在 39 岁时突然萌生了强烈的当母亲的冲动。走在街上,每当看到推着婴儿车的妈妈,她都会忍不住盯着那些小婴儿出神,内心深处的母性渴望被彻底唤醒。即使当时她没有伴侣,甚至不知道自己是否还有健康的卵子、医学上能做些什么,她依然决定去咨询生育医生。在当时,Rebel 处于一种身体肥胖但在生活上极度丰盛的矛盾状态:她满世界环游,摆脱了过去工作狂的状态,甚至像歌手 Lizzo 歌里唱的那样自信满满,自豪于自己的成功与快乐。 然而,第一次见面的生育医生上下打量了她一番,毫不留情且带着明显轻蔑的语气对她说:“但是你并不健康。如果你身体健康,你怀上孩子的几率会大得多。”这记直击要害的话语让她震惊。在好莱坞,几乎每个人都在恭维她,祝贺她演的《完美音调》(Pitch Perfect)大获成功、称赞“胖艾米”(Fat Amy)的角色多么精彩,从没有人会当面直指她糟糕的饮食生活习惯。这位医生满头白发、长得颇像《回到未来》(Back to the Future)里的布朗博士(Doc Brown),显然不属于《完美音调》的粉丝群体,他的冷酷直言打破了 Rebel 的自我防线。 Rebel 坦承,尽管她一直倡导身体包容(Body Positivity)、坚信“美不受体型限制”,并且并未患上严重的器质性疾病,但她内心深处一直清楚自己的暴饮暴食行为是不健康的。这记无法回避的批评深深刺痛了她,让她终于直面现实,并下定决心把即将到来的 2020 年完全留给自己的健康——甚至在完全无法预料到疫情暴发的情况下,提前推掉了那一整年的工作。 - 触发健康转折的契机:39 岁时强烈的当母亲愿望。 - 医生的形象与态度:像《回到未来》中的科学家 Doc,用直白且带有一丝鄙夷的语气指出其体态背后的健康缺陷。 - 心理认知冲突:对外作为“大码自信”与身体包容的标杆,对内深知自身饮食行为极不健康。 ### [57:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3432s) 从自我否定到为了未出生的孩子而战 回到车里后,Rebel 陷入了深思。她指出,许多医学上处于肥胖状态的人心里其实都明白自己的处境,但要真正跨出行动并改变习惯却极度艰难。此前她至少尝试过 20 次节食,去过各种健康疗养农场,虽然能在短时间内减掉 5 到 7 磅,但从来无法维持,体重最终总是反弹回 102 公斤(约 225 磅)的原点。这种长期的身体“稳态”(Homeostasis)让她一度产生习得性无助:她可以攻读两个大学学位,可以成为国际一线影星,却唯独认为自己永远无法在体重和健康方面取得成功。 然而,那位陌生医生的话彻底击碎了她的侥幸心理。与过去为了迎合外界审美或单纯减重不同,这一次的驱动力不再仅仅是为自己,而是为了“一个未来的孩子”。为了能拥有孕育新生命的机会,她找到了前所未有的根本动力,决定不惜一切代价彻底打破反弹的循环。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 减重动机的转变历程 accDescr: 展示 Rebel Wilson 从过去的无效循环到以生育为契机发生根本转变的过程。 subgraph PastCycle ["过往的无效循环"] A["短期节食 / 疗养院减重 5-7 磅"] --> B["无法维持并迅速反弹"] B --> C["回到 102 公斤稳态,陷入自我怀疑"] end subgraph TurningPoint ["认知觉醒与转折"] D["生育医生的直白当头棒喝"] --> E["动机升级:为了未来孩子的降生"] end subgraph Action ["根本性行动"] E --> F["定为 2020 健康年,投入全面重塑"] end C -. 击破旧模式.-> D ``` ### [59:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3564s) 商业人设的绑架与团队的强烈反对 当 Rebel 将自己减重的打算告诉身边的工作团队时,迎来的却是铺天盖地的阻力。就在那一年,Rebel 凭借电影获得了约 2000 万美元的高额报酬,整个好莱坞商业体系都在为她的“胖女孩”人设立项买单。团队成员纷纷劝阻:“天哪,你疯了吗?为什么要减肥?你一旦瘦下来,就会失去辛辛苦苦建立的价值数千万美元的专属戏路(pigeonhole)!你付出了一切才走到今天,现在要把这一切扔掉吗?” 此时的 Rebel 面临着极其严苛的人生二选一:是保住年入数千万的顶级好莱坞喜剧事业、继续维持不健康的生活方式并可能永远无法拥有孩子;还是冒着葬送演艺生涯的风险去改善健康、争取成为母亲。尽管身边的每一个人都在劝她维持原样,甚至她自己当时也天真地以为减重后事业可能会彻底完蛋,但她内心认定,健康和拥有自己的孩子远比好莱坞的虚名和金钱重要得多。 此外,好莱坞的演员合同也对身材有着极其严苛的法律限制。例如在《完美音调》系列等拍摄合同中,明文规定演员不得大幅度改变外貌,包括体重浮动不得超过特定限制(如不能减掉 10 磅以上)、甚至更换发型发色都需要提前报备批准。这是因为制片方需要应对随时可能发生的补拍需求或续集拍摄,演员的外貌连贯性被严格锁定在法律条款之中。 - 事业抉择危机:2000 万美元年收入的喜剧专属戏路与未来孩子健康之间的终极权衡。 - 团队反馈:几乎全员反对,认为减重是亲手毁掉商业价值。 - 演艺合同限制:演员合同严禁在拍摄期及潜在补拍期剧烈改变外形与体重。 ### [01:02:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3733s) 2020“健康年”:清理情绪行李与身心重塑 踏入 2020 年,Rebel 正式将其定为自己的“健康年”(Year of Health),并特意公开发布在 Instagram 上,借助公众监督来促使自己履行承诺。在这一过程中,演员安妮·海瑟薇(Anne Hathaway)扮演了关键推手——两人此前合作电影《偷心女盗》(The Hustle)时,海瑟薇注意到了 Rebel 承受的身体与心理压力,于是将一位专注研究情绪与身体健康关联的医生推荐给了她。 这次咨询彻底刷新了 Rebel 的认知。过去她盲目认为减肥仅仅是“少吃多动”,却从未意识到自己本质上是一个“情绪暴食者”(Emotional Eater)。由于成长于缺乏情绪疏导技能的家庭环境,她多年来将受到的童年创伤和委屈像一袋袋重物一样死死攥在心里,最终全借由食物来发泄和掩盖。 为了清理这些“情绪行李”,Rebel 开始与该医生保持每两周一次的深度长途电话咨询。刚开始时,剖析自己最隐秘脆弱的内心感受让她痛苦不堪,但随着压抑在心底的创伤被逐一正视和释放,她的心理结痂逐渐脱落,体重也随之自然下降。借由疫情导致的行业停工,Rebel 获得了前所未有的专注空间: - 坚持每天进行 2 到 2.5 小时的高强度运动以加速燃脂。 - 亲自下厨做饭,严格执行高蛋白饮食结构。 - 规律开展每两周一次的情绪健康咨询,深度剖析并释放童年期因父亲带来的压抑与复杂创伤。 Rebel 坦言,如果没有经历那段深刻的情绪清理过程,她甚至不可能有勇气和心力写下后来的这本回忆录。情绪层面的释怀,才是她真正实现身体转变的最底层根基。 ### [01:04:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3894s) 父亲离世与用体重筑起的心理屏障 Rebel Wilson 谈及父亲突发心脏病去世的往事,这场悲剧发生在电影《完美音调》(Pitch Perfect)第一部上映后不久。这段复杂且伴随悲伤的关系,以及童年留下的种种阴影,过去她从未将其与自己的体重问题联系起来。直到后来她才恍然大悟:正是因为内心长期积压、未能妥善消化这些心理创伤,脂肪与体重成了她防御外界的“护城河”。其中最明显的一点就是对亲密关系的抗拒——她害怕展示真实的自我,因而借由体重充当屏障,主动躲进“胖胖的搞笑好友”(fat funny friend)这一无论在银幕上还是现实中都让她如鱼得水的安全角色里。 主持人在对话中引用了作家 Johann Hari(著有《迷失的纽带》/ *Lost Connections*)提到的心理学研究:许多重度肥胖女性在减重后,一旦遇到他人搭讪或示好,反倒容易出现体重反弹。研究发现,这些女性早年大多经历过创伤或虐待,潜意识里常将多余的体重当成抵御性骚扰和情感侵扰的物理铠甲。Rebel 对此深感共鸣,坦言自己过去极力避免带人回家,既不想让别人窥探到自己真实的生活状态,也对展露脆弱深感羞耻。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 体重作为心理防御机制的循环 accDescr: 展示早年创伤如何通过体重转化为防御屏障,最终阻隔亲密关系的循环机制。 subgraph Trauma["心理根源"] A["童年创伤与家庭关系紧张"] --> B["父亲突发心脏病离世"] B --> C["情感未被消化与处理"] end subgraph Defense["防御机制"] C --> D["将体重作为保护性铠甲"] D --> E["扮演'胖胖的搞笑好友'"] end subgraph Outcome["关系阻隔"] E --> F["阻挡浪漫追求与性吸引关注"] F --> G["避免暴露真实脆弱的自我"] end ``` ### [01:06:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3997s) 隐形的青春与成名后的异性关注 在 20 多岁的人生阶段,Rebel 的情感世界几乎是一片空白。除了 16 岁时一段仅止于牵手和一次接吻的懵懂校园恋情外,她在成名前几乎从未察觉到任何来自异性或同性的搭讪与追求。她形容自己在那段岁月里仿佛在“性吸引力上处于完全隐形的状态”。 直到凭借《完美音调》走红好莱坞后,外界的注意力才扑面而来。她生动地回忆起在西好莱坞著名的马尔蒙庄园酒店(Chateau Marmont)时,一位男服务员大胆递来电话号码,甚至直言“今晚把我带回家”。当时与好友兼喜剧演员马特·卢卡斯(Matt Lucas)同行的 Rebel 被吓得手足无措,不知该如何应对;而卢卡斯则在一旁起哄催促她“快上”。面对这种突如其来的桃花,生性害羞的 Rebel 最终没有联络对方。不仅如此,成名后她甚至还收到过许多来自服刑人员的私信求婚。 - 长期以来由于内心关闭了情感雷达,她几乎无法辨识或接收外界对她的好感信号。 - 父亲在世时偶尔通电话总会追问她“有没有在交往”,这反而会瞬间点燃她的怒火,因为在她眼里,父母那段千疮百孔的婚姻完全是反面教材。 ### [01:09:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4158s) 30岁后的相亲APP与“恋爱之年” 迈入 30 岁后,尤其是 30 多岁后半程,Rebel 愈发体会到单身女性面临的社会与同龄压力。为了打破情感僵局,她决定主动迈出舒适圈,甚至注册了针对名流与精英的专属约会软件 Raya。不过,线上约会并不容易,每次梳妆打扮去赴约,面对陌生的相亲对象摸索彼此是否有火花,都是极耗精力的心理挑战。 Rebel 坦率承认自己直到 35 岁时才打破处女之身。对方是朋友介绍的一位风趣、可爱的优秀男士,当时她正处于事业巅峰,主演的电影登顶票房榜首。她曾固执地坚持要把初夜留给一个自己真心喜欢且具备结婚潜质的人。在有了这段情感经历后,自认在谈恋爱方面“起步太晚”(behind the eight ball)的 Rebel 在 2019 年发起了一场大胆的“恋爱之年”(Year of Love)实验——在短短一年内密集与大约 50 个人约会,以此补上落下的恋爱课,探索真爱的可能。这段经历也为她随后在 2020 年展开著名的“健康之年”(Year of Health)打下了坚实的心理基础。 ### [01:11:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4318s) 尝试 Ozempic 与身材管理现实 聊到近年风靡的减肥针 Ozempic(司美格鲁肽),Rebel 毫不避讳地分享了自己的使用经历。她感慨如果自己在 2020 年就知道这个药物,一定会尝试。事实上,在通过高强度运动和严格自律成功减重约 35 公斤(77 磅)后,她意识到自己不可能一辈子维持那种近乎极限的专注与健身强度,同时极其恐惧体重反弹。 后来由于迎来女儿的诞生,加上自己转型做导演,每天必须坐在导演椅上十几个小时,承受着连轴转的高压,压力性暴食卷土重来,导致体重回弹了约 10 公斤。为了进行体重管理,她曾在医生监督下短暂使用过几个月 Ozempic。Rebel 坦言自己天生对甜食、巧克力和冰淇淋毫无抵抗力且缺乏饱腹感,而这类药物确实有效抑制了食欲,帮她体会到了“吃饱即止”的感觉。她认为这类药物对于受肥胖困扰的人群确实是一个行之有效的辅助工具,虽然目前已停用,但未来若有医疗需求,并不排斥再次使用。 ### [01:13:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4415s) 减肥引发的粉丝反弹与健康底线 当身材发生翻天覆地的变化后,Rebel 面对的不仅是赞美,还有来自部分受众的失望与抵触情绪。这种舆论反弹正如当年歌手阿黛尔(Adele)大幅减重时所遭遇的情形如出一辙,许多观众担忧变瘦后的她“不再搞笑了”。对此,Rebel 用强劲的事实给出了回击:减重后由她主演的青春喜剧电影《我要回高三》(Senior Year)上线 Netflix 仅前 10 天,就斩获了全球约 8,900 万独立观看账户的惊人纪录,证明了幽默感并不依附于体重。 深入探讨部分粉丝的负面心态时,Rebel 做了一个形象的家族比喻:就像一个家庭里某个兄弟姐妹突然变得自律上进、过得更好,留在原地的人往往会产生自惭形秽的挫败感,进而转化为怨恨:“你怎么敢改变?你怎么敢走出低谷?”但 Rebel 清醒地指出,难道为了迎合大众的期待,自己就该像喜剧演员约翰·坎迪(John Candy)那样英年早逝于心脏病吗?考虑到父亲因糖尿病并发症突发心脏病去世的家族病史,当年已站在糖尿病边缘的她深知,做出改变是关乎生死存亡的必然选择。 ### [01:15:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4540s) 减重后的角色转型与社会偏见的双重体验 谈及外界对她减肥的质疑,Rebel Wilson 反驳了那种“为了取悦观众就该保持不健康甚至早逝”的荒谬逻辑。她指出,喜剧演员的工具箱里有太多武器,最核心的是个性本身,而非单纯依赖某种外貌上的“异常特征”。瘦身之后,她的职业道路发生了明显转变,戏路大幅拓宽:除了继续涉足喜剧并首次担任导演之外,她开始接拍严肃的正剧,例如在英国上映的严肃题材电影《The Almond and the Seahorse》(杏仁与海马),甚至出演了莎士比亚戏剧改编电影中的凯普莱特夫人(Lady Capulet)——这恰恰呼应了她在身形变胖之前以莎翁剧起步的演艺生涯早期阶段。 除了事业层面的转变,更令她深感震撼的是现实生活中人际待遇的巨大反差。Rebel 坦言,在以前身材丰满时,自己走在街上就像一个外貌上的“隐形人”,几乎得不到任何额外的关注。然而,在成功甩掉大批体重后,外界给予了她铺天盖地的正面肯定与狂热反馈。人们突然开始主动为她开门、帮她把杂物拎到车上,处处献殷勤。亲身经历过两种截然相反的社会待遇后,她由衷感叹道:“难道那些长相出众的人平日里享受的就是这种待遇吗?”这种整个社会长期对容貌倾斜的“积极偏见”(positive bias)和媒体的狂热赞美,让人极难抗拒并很容易沉溺其中。不过,她也坦承近期因为首次执导电影压力巨大,生活方式稍稍脱离了健康轨道,体重有些许回升,但她表示自己一定会重新调整回归。 - **严肃戏剧回归**:不仅尝试更多正剧角色,还参演了《The Almond and the Seahorse》以及出演经典角色凯普莱特夫人(Lady Capulet)。 - **容貌偏见的直观对比**:从昔日被忽视的“隐形”状态,瞬间转变为走到哪里都有人主动开门、拎包的“被优待”状态。 --- ### [01:17:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4654s) 停不下来的工作狂:从翻垃圾桶的女童到奥斯卡野心 主持人指出,Rebel 在42岁时通过代孕/试管婴儿(IVF)迎来了女儿 Royce,同时在世界各地购置了多处豪宅,与伴侣 Ramona 拥有极其幸福美满的感情生活,完全功成名就,但她骨子里依然是一个高强度运转的工作狂。刚刚过去的9个月里,她如同跑了一场马拉松,每周连轴转工作7天:不仅主演了动作电影《Bride Hard》,执导了自己的导演处女作电影《The Deb》,还撰写出版了个人自传回忆录《Rebel Rising》。虽然她经常对身边的人嚷嚷着“我要退休了”,但往往休息不到两天,脑海中就会冒出全新的电影点子,又忍不住投身其中。 探寻这股永不停歇的内在驱动力时,Rebel 将根源追溯到了童年时期在犬展上的贫困经历。那时家境拮据,年幼的她必须伸着小手探进垃圾桶里捡铝制易拉罐去换零钱,那种“一无所有”的匮乏感深深烙印在她的潜意识中,驱使她成年后始终保持着疯狂赚钱的紧迫感。此外,她的野心总是在目标达成后不断自我膨胀:最初来好莱坞只是希望能演上一部美国电影,可一旦达成,内心的空虚又渴望更多,如今她甚至梦想着能斩获一座奥斯卡奖。尽管她也开玩笑提到坊间流传的“奥斯卡魔咒”(许多女演员获奖后感情破裂或两年接不到戏),但那个 malaria 幻象中手捧奖杯的场景始终激励着她。不过,女儿的降生正在悄然重塑她的世界观:每当看着可爱的女儿,她内心深处开始渴望减少工作量、不再以自我为中心,学着把人生的优先项真正留给家庭与至亲。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Rebel Wilson 工作驱动力与心态演变 accDescr: 展示 Rebel 从童年匮乏感到好莱坞野心膨胀,再到为人母后心态转变的过程 subgraph 童年创伤与动力源泉 A["犬展翻垃圾桶捡易拉罐换钱"] --> B["植根心底的匮乏感与赚钱渴望"] end subgraph 好莱坞事业与目标升级 B --> C["最初目标:参演一部好莱坞电影"] C --> D["目标达成后依然不满足"] D --> E["更高野心:执导电影、渴望斩获奥斯卡"] end subgraph 人生重心的重新权衡 E --> F["女儿 Royce 诞生与伴侣陪伴"] F --> G["反思工作狂模式,学会享受休假"] G --> H["逐渐将重心向家庭与陪伴转移"] end ``` --- ### [01:20:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4828s) 自传中的涂黑章节:揭露与萨莎·拜伦·科恩的屈辱过往 访谈随后聚焦于 Rebel 新书《Rebel Rising》中引发舆论轩然大波的被涂黑页面(redacted pages)。在英国发售的版本中,整段文字被一道道刺眼的黑杠覆盖。拥有法律专业学位的 Rebel 解释道,这并非她本人的意愿,而是英国出版商面对英国极其严苛的诽谤法(Defamation laws)所采取的法律避险手段——相比美国对言论自由更宽泛的保护,英国和澳大利亚对名誉侵权的追责门槛极高,出版商为了避免卷入与极为热衷诉讼的当事人之间的官司,才不得不采取涂黑处理。这一章节题为《萨莎·拜伦·科恩及其他混蛋》(Sacha Baron Cohen and Other...),讲述了她十年前与男喜剧演员萨莎·拜伦·科恩合作拍摄电影《Grimsby》(特工贱谍)期间经历的至暗时刻。 Rebel 强调,书中记录的是她整个职业生涯中最糟糕、最屈辱的经历,曾让她的人格与尊严荡然无存。面对科恩公开的否认,她坚决澄清自己写出这一切既非指控性侵犯,也绝非为了在舆论场上“取消”(cancel)任何人。她真正想要剖析的是职场权力霸凌与当年极度匮乏的自尊心: - **自我怀疑与隐忍妥协**:当时“Me Too”运动尚未兴起,两人还隶属于同一家经纪公司。即便遭受了极其不堪的对待,年轻的她为了避免被好莱坞贴上“不专业”的标签,依然强忍屈辱完成了补拍。 - **喜剧艺术与个人羞辱的界限**:她在书中反思了何为喜剧表演的角色需要,何为越界的人格践踏。更让她多年来背负深重羞耻感的是,自己当年竟然为了保住工作而主动选择了配合。 如今已44岁的 Rebel 明确表示,将这些尘封的伤痛写进书里是一种情感的彻底释放。如果是今天的自己,早已具备足够强大的自我价值感,必定会当场甩下一句“去你的”然后头也不回地愤然离场,绝不再容忍任何践踏尊严的霸凌行为。 ### [01:25:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5135s) 青春期的孤独深渊与眼前的导演新篇章 Rebel Wilson 回忆起自己大约 13 岁时的暗淡时光。那正值青春期发育,情绪剧烈翻涌,内心里充满了深深的不配得感与自卑,觉得自己既不可爱,人生也注定一事无成。当时全家住在偏远的丛林荒野(the bush)中,生活环境十分荒凉恶劣,后廊上甚至经常有蛇爬过,灌木鼠窜来窜去。那种深陷于与世隔绝、前路茫茫的状态,成了她人生中最灰暗、最难捱的时期之一。 谈及当下正在推进的事业,Rebel 表示自己正在全力进行其导演处女作的后期制作,处理所有繁琐复杂的视听技术细节,这是一项全新的庞大挑战。她执导的是一部非常赋能、极其欢快且充满爆笑笑点的歌舞片,她对此感到无比自豪。而谈到长远的目标时,她笑着承认,自己内心深处依然惦记着当年那个获得奥斯卡小金人的愿景,至今尚未实现,因此未来仍想去争取。但在事业之外,她如今最大的渴望其实是转变生活方式——做一名能够全心陪伴家庭、享受天伦之乐的母亲,而不是永远停不下来地往前拼搏。尽管骨子里那种与生俱来的好胜与拼劲依然存在,但她希望能学着慢慢放下这种过度紧绷的状态。 ### [01:27:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5220s) 给年轻人的寄语:主动打破平庸,用艺术表达找到自我 当被问及若能回到过去对当年那个迷茫痛苦的 13 岁自己说些什么、从而给现在的年轻人一些启发时,Rebel 坦言她太懂那种“透明人”的感受了——孤独、被孤立,觉得自己身上毫无闪光点。当时除了学业成绩不错以外,她外貌普通、个性内向,走在路上几乎没人会回头看她第二眼。但她用自身经历证明,只要有足够的决心想要改变命运,就完全可以做到,绝不需要被困在糟糕的现状中,而是可以通过实际行动让生活变成自己想要的模样。 对于同样陷入迷茫与无力感的年轻人,Rebel 强烈建议去接触和探索创意艺术(creative arts)。这不仅限于上台表演或演戏,还可以是写作、绘画,甚至是坐在卧室里用笔记本写日记或写歌词。许多人在成长中并不知道自己的声音是什么、该如何表达内心的真实情绪,而各种形式的艺术创作正是帮人宣泄情感、寻找个人声音与力量的最强大载体。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 突破自我孤立的成长路径 accDescr: 展示从被动边缘化到主动利用艺术表达实现自我重塑的阶段转变。 subgraph Phase1 ["童年与青春期困境"] A["边缘化与透明感<br/>(孤独、自卑、环境受限)"] B["缺乏自我表达渠道<br/>(压抑与回避情绪)"] A --> B end subgraph Phase2 ["破局之法:创意艺术"] C["创意表达探索<br/>(写作、绘本日记、创作)"] D["找到自我声音<br/>(宣泄情感与确立认知)"] B --> C C --> D end subgraph Phase3 ["主动掌控人生"] E["积极做出行动改变"] F["实现人生重塑与赋能"] D --> E E --> F end ``` ### [01:28:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5337s) 大器晚成不可耻:给“迟开的花朵”以宽容 主持人梳理了 Rebel 的非凡蜕变:早年极度害羞到被误认为患有社交障碍,后来却成为了好莱坞顶流巨星;在感情上,她曾是一个逃避型依恋者,直到 35 岁才献出初夜,而如今则收获了自己的伴侣与孩子。Rebel 坦承,自己偶尔确实会闪过一丝遗憾,心想如果早点开始恋爱会不会不同;但转念一想,如果年轻时把重心全部分给恋爱和健康,她很可能就无法取得在好莱坞拼下来的事业版图。 针对现实中许多人到了三十多岁听到“生物钟滴答作响”、因错过年轻时的规划而懊悔焦虑的现象,Rebel 坚信大器晚成(Late Bloomer)完全没有任何可耻之处。她之所以在自传《Rebel Rising》中毫不避讳地写下自己 35 岁破处等极其尴尬甚至隐秘的经历,就是为了打破大众的容貌与年龄焦虑——如果别人看到连好莱坞明星 Rebel Wilson 都是如此晚熟、却依然能在日后建立美好的生活,他们也能卸下心中的自责与包袱。她幽默地调侃自己采访中不断提到“晚熟与到来”,但由衷地强调:“什么时候盛开并不重要,重要的是你终究迎来了绽放。” - 35 岁才经历初夜并开始真正谈恋爱,早期在亲密关系中带有明显的逃避倾向。 - 坦然接纳人生选择的代价(trade-offs):专注于事业奠定了影视成就,虽使情感起步滞后,但“你可以在人生中拥有一切,只是无法在同一时间全部拥有”。 ### [01:31:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5484s) 压轴提问:放下过量工作,重新校准家庭天平 按照播客的传统,上一位嘉宾留下了一个未拆封的问题:“在那些你最深爱的人当中,是什么阻止了你花足够的时间去拥抱他们?你能够改变这种现状吗?”面对这个直击心底的问题,Rebel 沉思片刻后回答,除原生家庭外,她生命中最爱的人就是她的女儿和伴侣 Ramona。而唯一阻碍她去拥抱她们的,纯粹是物理空间的距离。 因为需要满世界飞去宣传新书,或是进组拍摄一些不适宜带婴儿前往的戏份,她经常不得不与妻女分隔两地或身处不同国家。造成这一切的根源,就是自己依然接了太多的工作。在谈到能否改变时,Rebel 明确表示自己“完全能够改变,也必须改变”:未来的解决方法就是学会有所取舍,不再接下过量的工作负荷,真正把家庭与陪伴置于首要位置。 ### [01:32:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5558s) 幽默与真实的力量:《The Almond and the Seahorse》与真情告白 主持人对 Rebel 的新书《Rebel Rising》给予了高度评价,称赞书中不仅诚实探讨了现代人在事业成瘾、浪漫关系、生育焦虑与自我认同上的矛盾交织,更揭开了她童年鲜为人知的艰难底层起点与不可思议的抗争历程。同时,她的幽默从不刻意做作,而是一种骨子里的机智与从容。 两人还聊到了 Rebel 主演的严肃剧情电影《The Almond and the Seahorse》(杏仁与海马,英国于 5 月 10 日院线公映)。这部作品探讨了创伤性脑损伤(TBI)对患者及家庭的残酷冲击。Rebel 特别提到,正是在这部戏里,她与法国传奇女演员夏洛特·甘斯布(Charlotte Gainsbourg)拍摄了对手戏,并在银幕上献出了自己的“同性初吻”——这段戏在现实中成为了她自我性取向探索的关键转折点,自此开启了人生崭新的感情篇章。 在对谈结尾,Rebel 对主持人表达了由衷的感谢。她感慨道,将自己一生中最脆弱、最隐秘的心思毫无保留地公布于世,固然令人心惊胆战;但只要这本书能让哪怕十个人产生共鸣、汲取到面对生活的力量与希望,那么承受这一切暴露隐私的惶恐便拥有了无比崇高的意义。 ## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=0s) 勇敢的人会放下恐惧,勇往直前 — Rebel Wilson > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=0s) 又肥又懒的母牛,没人会爱你 — Rebel Wilson 的父亲 > [22:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1322s) 一个人在 15 岁时形成的性格,将伴随其一生。 — Rebel Wilson > [32:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=1961s) 宇宙的提示最初是耳语,接着便会像砖块砸向你 — Rebel Wilson > [41:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=2474s) 人们天生更喜欢嘲笑体型偏胖的人。 — Rebel Wilson > [54:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3243s) 但是你并不健康。如果你身体健康,你怀上孩子的几率会大得多。 — 生育医生 > [59:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=3564s) 天哪,你疯了吗?为什么要减肥?你一旦瘦下来,就会失去辛辛苦苦建立的价值数千万美元的专属戏路! — Rebel Wilson 的团队成员 > [01:13:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4415s) 你怎么敢改变?你怎么敢走出低谷? — Rebel Wilson > [01:15:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=4540s) 难道那些长相出众的人平日里享受的就是这种待遇吗? — Rebel Wilson > [01:28:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5337s) 什么时候盛开并不重要,重要的是你终究迎来了绽放。 — Rebel Wilson > [01:31:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs&t=5484s) 在那些你最深爱的人当中,是什么阻止了你花足够的时间去拥抱他们?你能够改变这种现状吗? — Steven Bartlett ## Mentioned Rebel Wilson, Steven Bartlett, The Diary Of A CEO, Rebel Rising, Bridesmaids, Pitch Perfect, Jojo Rabbit, Fat Pizza, Senior Year, The Almond and the Seahorse, The Deb, Bride Hard, Grimsby, The Hustle, Tim Grover, Dale Carnegie, Eminem, Oprah Winfrey, Nicole Kidman, Anne Hathaway, Matt Lucas, Adele, John Candy, Sacha Baron Cohen, Charlotte Gainsbourg, Lizzo, Johann Hari, SAG-AFTRA, The Second City, Raya, Ozempic, Netflix ## Video description Rebel Wilson is an Australian actress and producer best known for her roles in films such as, ‘Bridesmaids’, ‘Pitch Perfect’ and ‘Jojo Rabbit’. 00:00 Intro 02:14 Being A Very Shy Kid 04:06 My Family And Their Struggles 05:19 My Dad's Angry Issues 08:41 Doing Weird Things As A Child 10:29 Emotional Abuse 11:40 My Parents Divorce 14:06 How Your Dad's Trauma Impacted You 17:08 Where Does Your Darkness Come From? 20:36 Feeling Like Not Being Good Enough 23:56 The Steps I Took To Become A New Person 26:21 How I Became More Extroverted 28:29 I Had To Carry A Weapon With Me To Protect Myself 31:38 The Hallucination That Changed My Life 36:45 Becoming A Lawyer To Then Pursue Acting Career 38:39 How Many Years Until You Made It In Hollywood? 39:54 My Weight Defined The Roles I Got 42:44 I Used My Weight To My Advantage 45:26 Did Your Roles Impact Your Self Esteem? 47:34 Wanting To Become Successful Despite Hurting Myself 50:07 I Lost Money Playing In Bridesmaids! 51:49 Having No Money To Doing 6 Hollywood Films 52:13 Ads 53:10 I Wasn’t Healthy Enough To Have A Child 57:12 The Comment From One Stranger That Changed My Entire Health Trajectory 59:24 “People Didn't Want Me To Lose Weight” 01:01:25 Your Film Contract Wouldn’t Let You Lose Weight 01:02:13 Your Journey Of Losing Weight 01:04:37 Letting Go Of My Emotional Baggage 01:06:37 I Started Dating People At 30 Years Old 01:10:34 Losing My Virginity 01:11:58 Experimenting With Ozempic 01:13:35 Backslash From Fans For Your Weight Loss 01:15:40 How Have Your Acting Roles Changed Since You Lost Weight? 01:17:58 What Are You After Now? 01:20:28 Why Did You Remove Sections From The Book? 01:25:15 Advice To Your Younger Self 01:26:59 I Hope My Stories Help Other People 01:28:57 Last Guest Question You purchase Rebel’s memoir, ‘Rebel Rising’, here: https://amzn.to/3WrOMZ8 Follow Rebel: Instagram - https://bit.ly/3JIZ1R6 TikTok - https://bit.ly/4dzvl6O Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGq-a57w-aPwyi3pW7XLiHw/join Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Shop the Conversation Cards: https://thediary.com/products/the-cards Sponsors: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/doac [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xjneW1XZBs)

Source quotes

[0:00] Rebel Wilson: 勇敢的人会放下恐惧,勇往直前 [0:00] Rebel Wilson 的父亲: 又肥又懒的母牛,没人会爱你 [22:02] Rebel Wilson: 一个人在 15 岁时形成的性格,将伴随其一生。 [32:41] Rebel Wilson: 宇宙的提示最初是耳语,接着便会像砖块砸向你 [41:14] Rebel Wilson: 人们天生更喜欢嘲笑体型偏胖的人。 [54:03] 生育医生: 但是你并不健康。如果你身体健康,你怀上孩子的几率会大得多。 [59:24] Rebel Wilson 的团队成员: 天哪,你疯了吗?为什么要减肥?你一旦瘦下来,就会失去辛辛苦苦建立的价值数千万美元的专属戏路! [73:35] Rebel Wilson: 你怎么敢改变?你怎么敢走出低谷? [75:40] Rebel Wilson: 难道那些长相出众的人平日里享受的就是这种待遇吗? [88:57] Rebel Wilson: 什么时候盛开并不重要,重要的是你终究迎来了绽放。 [91:24] Steven Bartlett: 在那些你最深爱的人当中,是什么阻止了你花足够的时间去拥抱他们?你能够改变这种现状吗?

Source quotes

[5:19] Rebel Wilson: I think cause he was so angry all the time and money was a source of fighting in the household... he'd look at the other High Flyers, rich people who had a lot of money... and I definitely saw that he wanted to be that, but he wasn't that. [10:29] Rebel Wilson: I saw my mom kind of became a shell of a woman and had to have every ounce of strength in order to get out of that relationship... and that left me thinking I will never get married. [17:08] Rebel Wilson: I definitely get self-esteem and self-worth from achievements. [18:23] Rebel Wilson: I felt like I was not good enough—I was like trash, and that's why I would trash my body, because I just felt like, well, I don't deserve anything different. [22:00] Rebel Wilson: I read this article in the library that said that what your personality is at 15 will be your personality for life... I went, 'I'm so close to 15—if I don't change, this is going to be me forever.' [28:29] Rebel Wilson: Johannesburg had the highest rape and murder rate in the world at that time, and there were guns everywhere and barbed wire fences and attack dogs... I had to carry a little wooden baton. [32:32] Rebel Wilson: People go, 'No, the malaria has affected your brain.' They thought I was nuts... I go, 'No, I've seen it, and I think I need to be an actress now.' [39:54] Rebel Wilson: Normally if you want to sleep with somebody you're not wanting to laugh at them... the science of it is more people want to be your friend rather than they don't want to be your lover. [54:06] Fertility Doctor: Yeah, but you're not healthy. [59:24] Rebel Wilson: They're like, 'Oh no, no, no, why would you want to lose weight?... You lose your multi-million dollar pigeonhole that you've so successfully created.' [66:37] Rebel Wilson: I'd waited so long at that point, I really wanted to lose my virginity to someone who I was really, really into... I don't think I could have done [the year of dating] if I was still a virgin going on all those dates.

Original transcript

[0:00] it was the worst professional experience [0:02] of my career and this was before the me [0:04] too movement I felt humiliated and [0:07] degraded what can you say about that [0:10] experience Rebel Wilson an awardwinning [0:14] Hollywood Superstar okay here we go my [0:17] dad would say horrible things to my mom [0:19] fat lazy cow no one will ever love you [0:22] and I had issues with food cuz I had low [0:25] self-worth and that's why I would trash [0:26] my body I felt my life wasn't going to [0:28] be anything but then I found [0:31] motivational tapes that said the brave [0:33] put down their fears and go forward and [0:36] so I decided to go out into the world [0:37] and make a name for myself and then I [0:39] noticed on stage that people like [0:41] laughing at bigger people I thought I [0:43] could use this to my advantage I gained [0:45] all this weight my body was like at 102 [0:48] kilos and then I came to America now I'm [0:50] making millions of dollars from playing [0:52] the fat funny girl I'm living this [0:54] amazing life but you achieve it and then [0:57] it's not enough and there was still a [0:59] virgin never dated properly and this [1:01] biological clock you could hear it [1:04] going I went to the fertility doctor and [1:07] the doctor looks me up and down and goes [1:08] you're not healthy and it like really [1:11] sunk in I've got to fix this but as soon [1:14] as I started telling people in my team [1:16] they're like oh no no no why would you [1:17] want to lose weight cuz then you lose [1:19] your multi-million dollar career you're [1:21] just going to throw it away was that [1:22] your hardest moment no the darkest point [1:26] in my life was when I was 13 and [1:31] congratulations Dio gang we've made some [1:33] progress 63% of you that listen to this [1:35] podcast regularly don't subscribe which [1:38] is down from [1:40] 69% our goal is 50% so if you've ever [1:44] liked any of the videos we've posted if [1:46] you like this channel can you do me a [1:47] quick favor and hit the Subscribe button [1:49] it helps this channel more than you know [1:51] and the bigger the channel gets as [1:52] you've seen the bigger the guest get [1:54] thank you and enjoy this episode [1:57] [Music] [2:00] rebel I I think to understand somebody [2:03] you have to understand their earliest [2:06] context and as I read through your book [2:09] Rebel Rising which is out now I was [2:12] surprised in many ways but also the [2:14] person that I'd seen on a screen made [2:16] sense in a bunch of different ways so [2:18] let me throw that question to you as the [2:20] first question which is if I if I was to [2:22] Endeavor to understand you what do I [2:24] need to know about your earliest [2:27] context yeah I guess some people say on [2:30] screen and they have this image of what [2:32] you are like um and often I guess people [2:35] would think some overly [2:37] confident uh very confident in her [2:41] sexuality and uh you know just a kind of [2:45] brash ballsy person but uh from my [2:51] upbringing I mean I think I couldn't be [2:53] more the opposite I mean I grew up in a [2:57] pretty regular Suburban Australian up [2:59] springing but was extremely shy to the [3:02] point where like you'd never think that [3:04] I would choose entertainment for a [3:06] career like that would just be [3:09] unimaginable uh for this ex like [3:11] bordering on some kind of social [3:13] disorder [3:14] shyness and and then coming from quite a [3:18] humble beginning of being in a family [3:20] where we made money selling pet products [3:23] out of a yellow Caravan at dog shows and [3:25] so driving around the country to these [3:28] dog shows and selling like pooper [3:30] scoopers to pick up the poop for the [3:32] dogs and uh brushes and leads for the [3:35] dogs and and all these things and so it [3:37] wasn't also I was allergic to dogs so [3:39] that's why my uh my childhood always [3:43] felt a little bit uncomfortable which I [3:45] never realize why until later when I got [3:47] tested as an adult um that I was [3:49] allergic and H and so I think by by [3:54] writing the book uh people can see this [3:57] whole other dimension of me and kind of [4:00] maybe why I have the [4:02] personality that that I have now what [4:06] about your parents so my mom was a [4:09] school teacher in in state schools um so [4:12] had a lot of like Refugee students and [4:15] students that came in not knowing [4:16] English and and she mainly taught [4:18] kindergarten so like all these kids so [4:20] she's just like a light you know light [4:23] of a woman like just a brilliant teacher [4:27] helped so many young people and some [4:30] parts of my childhood she was just a [4:31] stay-at-home um Mom which I shouldn't [4:33] say just cuz now I'm realizing uh being [4:37] a mom is like the hardest thing ever and [4:39] then my dad was someone who his his [4:42] father died uh suddenly when he was 18 [4:45] in his final year of high school uh [4:48] so uh I think that through his life what [4:52] was supposed to be his life off course [4:55] and he kind of had emotional issues from [4:58] from losing his dad suddenly that young [5:01] um and in a tragic way so he um he had I [5:06] believe you know wanted to be a [5:07] businessman and wanted to be successful [5:10] but I guess because of his own emotional [5:13] issues and stuff didn't quite fully [5:16] achieve his his [5:18] potential how do [5:20] you know that your father didn't quite [5:24] achieve his potential what were like the [5:25] symptoms of that CU you seem to be quite [5:27] sure that that that was um in something [5:30] I think cuz he was so angry all the time [5:32] and money was a source of um uh fighting [5:37] in the in the household [5:39] so H and I just like so for example we'd [5:43] go to the racetrack with the horses and [5:45] my dad sometimes would own like a oneth [5:48] or 12th of a racehorse in a Syndicate um [5:52] and he'd look at the other High Flyers [5:55] rich people who had had a lot of money [5:58] and were successful and people people [5:59] knew their names and stuff and I [6:01] definitely saw that he wanted to be that [6:05] but he wasn't that nobody was coming up [6:08] to him and shaking his hand or admiring [6:10] him and then in in one of the um [6:13] chapters of the book I write about I [6:15] found this gym bag in the back of his [6:17] car and I was full of all these [6:20] cassettes and I just took them nobody [6:23] ever said anything uh why they were [6:25] there or what and I noticed they were [6:27] all motivational tapes um and the one [6:31] that I clearly remember was one called [6:33] How to Win Friends and Influence People [6:35] and I think this was my father's way of [6:40] trying to improve himself and trying to [6:42] be better and a lot of the tapes were [6:43] about business about selling and um how [6:47] to be better in in business and and so I [6:51] feel like what even though we never [6:53] openly discussed it I feel like why [6:56] would he have those kind of things cuz [6:58] he wanted to better himself just don't [6:59] think he had the the ability to and then [7:03] his life just didn't go in the way that [7:05] he wanted to and I think uh because of [7:08] the death of his father he just never [7:10] seemed to be able to process [7:12] emotions properly um that was the best [7:15] way probably nowadays you would go to [7:18] someone and get diagnosed with what kind [7:21] of issues you had or seek therapy or or [7:24] something like that to get over the [7:25] trauma but I guess back in Australia in [7:28] those days that wasn't thing um and so [7:31] he was a man who just you know wanted to [7:34] be better but then just couldn't like uh [7:37] just didn't have the skills the [7:39] emotional skills that trauma eventually [7:41] finds an outlet either way if you don't [7:43] address it through like therapy it finds [7:45] other ways to manifest itself and what [7:47] were those ways and I think with him it [7:49] was being H angry and he would just turn [7:52] from all of a sudden talking normally to [7:57] he would go really red in the face like [7:58] just like like uh just it was almost [8:02] like a red balloon suddenly like his [8:04] face would almost expand and he go [8:05] really red and he'd just have these [8:08] absolutely like Angry outbursts where [8:10] he' do and say horrible things and and I [8:14] think that that was probably stemming [8:16] from when he lost his father in an [8:18] unfair way um and and he just didn't [8:22] know how to deal with it so probably [8:25] like you know if he was now and if you [8:28] know I would be like oh you know you [8:30] should talk to someone a professional [8:33] and process your emotions properly and [8:35] but but then back then I guess we didn't [8:38] we didn't really know what to do or say [8:39] that was just his personality to bring [8:42] this into into light I guess the the [8:44] example you given in the book is when [8:45] you I think you were 12 or something [8:47] years old and you decide you were young [8:49] it was the summer it was hot and you [8:51] decided to wet the bed to cool yourself [8:53] down mhm yeah we got back from a dog [8:55] show and it was really hot sometimes in [8:59] Australia we have like these really hot [9:01] like 36° days and so we thought well [9:04] we'll pour water all over the mattress [9:07] to like wet it down so we'd kind of be [9:08] lying in [9:09] coolness um and then my father came in [9:12] and just he thought I think we'd [9:14] literally wet the bed you know like gone [9:16] to the toilet on the bed which we never [9:18] would have done we were like looking [9:20] back we were like the most well- behaved [9:23] children you could imagine um and he [9:27] just like he just it was like a flick [9:30] switch would flick you know and he'd [9:32] just go really angry and would just [9:35] start whacking us and it was just [9:39] um it was I don't know it just seemed to [9:43] it just something would tick him off or [9:45] something and he'd Just Lose It um and [9:48] that was one of the incidents but I was [9:50] really young I think I was about eight [9:53] okay and my sister was Six Liberty and [9:55] when I spoke to her about writing the [9:57] book and she was like she doesn't [9:59] totally remember that exact instance but [10:01] she remembers several others that are [10:03] very similar MH um things but that one I [10:06] just remembered really clearly and then [10:09] I felt like a terrible person cuz I [10:11] thought oh well why did I wet the sheets [10:14] and the mattress and I was trying to [10:15] cool down but that was wrong and I [10:17] should never been naughty like that um [10:21] and it just kind of um yeah really stuck [10:25] to me that that particular time but that [10:27] was something that would happen you know [10:28] quite a bit [10:29] and this sort [10:31] of physical aggression and emotional [10:35] abuse would continue to your mother as [10:38] well it would extend to your mother as [10:39] well yeah more with my mom it was more [10:42] emotional abuse like um come home and [10:46] say oh fat lazy cow what have you done [10:48] all day um stuff like oh you know when [10:53] to over love you um just like these [10:56] comments that would just come constantly [10:58] and also more financial abuse like he'd [11:01] take control of the finances but then go [11:04] and gamble with the money and then we'd [11:07] have no money and um so so more with [11:11] that um but with the kids it was more [11:14] the you know the physical hitting which [11:16] was not was not that uncommon in the [11:19] area I grew up in I mean I know now like [11:21] I could never think of hitting my child [11:24] now I just would never but back then it [11:28] it was quite common and we did have [11:30] family friends that their dad would hit [11:31] them with a belt which was kind of a bit [11:33] even worse um so we kind of felt like [11:36] like we didn't know anything that [11:38] different it was quite common I I ask [11:41] those particular questions because it I [11:43] often think that we learn our first [11:45] model of what love is and what a [11:46] relationship is by what we observe with [11:48] our parents and for me I know for sure [11:51] that watching my parents how they [11:53] interacted left me with a message that I [11:55] absolutely do not want to be in a [11:56] romantic relationship and I avoided that [11:58] for my whole life yeah that's probably [12:00] why I never dated anybody ever um [12:05] because I saw my parents my mom kind of [12:08] became a shell of a woman and had to [12:11] have every ounce of strength in order to [12:13] get out of that relationship eventually [12:15] when I was like 16 17 and that left me [12:18] thinking I will never get [12:20] married um I I don't want to be in a [12:24] partnership with somebody like this is [12:27] terrible uh because often when my dad [12:29] would have his Outburst or whatever it [12:30] was always at home it was not in public [12:33] it was not around other people it was [12:34] like just just when we were at home and [12:37] I went who would want that like there [12:39] was nothing loving about it and and I [12:44] think even though I had one boyfriend [12:46] when I was 16 and and then he uh cheated [12:49] on me with a friend and and then I was [12:51] like that's it and and then from then [12:54] throughout the whole of my teenage and [12:56] 20s like did not date one person [13:00] because I guess I I didn't want to be [13:03] like my mother and and have this like [13:07] awful thing happen that you know [13:08] obviously now the story is great for my [13:11] mom she's now um engaged to a great man [13:14] and who's awesome and so kind and loving [13:17] but uh my only representation I guess [13:21] was their marriage and it was awful like [13:24] it was just even when they separated it [13:26] took seven years to uh where and [13:29] basically left them my mom with nothing [13:31] because all the money went to the [13:33] lawyers um from the separation costs and [13:36] I was just like oh like why would I want [13:39] that I go no I would like to be [13:42] successful and go out into the world and [13:43] make a name for myself and a romantic [13:46] relationship would only cause me pain [13:50] only drag me down uh not allow me to be [13:53] my true [13:54] self um so I thought yeah I just thought [13:58] I would never never i' never wanted one [14:02] until you get real lonely when you [14:04] become successful and then you're like [14:05] oh maybe maybe things can change what am [14:08] I going to do with all this stuff yeah I [14:11] think some of my darkness comes this is [14:12] a quote from your book I think some of [14:14] my darkness comes from my dad there is [14:16] definitely convict history on that side [14:18] of my family a lot of dodginess when you [14:20] say a lot of my darkness it's it's [14:23] interesting because I remember sitting [14:24] with Tim Grover who I reference a lot [14:25] and Tim Grover was the guy who coached [14:27] Michael Jordan and um [14:29] Kobe Bryant for pretty much you know the [14:32] most significant parts of their career [14:33] yeah I think I've listened to that epod [14:35] yeah yeah amazing biger basketball fan [14:38] yeah yeah yeah he's it was incredible [14:39] and one of the things you said to me [14:40] earlier was that everyone has their dark [14:42] side and then which is often from their [14:46] early experiences and all those kinds of [14:48] things and then it's often our light [14:50] side is often created by our dark side [14:51] in many respects yeah so I see shades of [14:55] what I would guess was your dark side in [14:57] in those early years of of your um story [15:00] but when you say that your dark side [15:01] probably came from your father what are [15:02] you referring to so I kind of feel like [15:08] um that I have friends in the industry [15:11] right who have had like quite awesome [15:13] childhoods and you know and and to me [15:17] sometimes in their work they come across [15:20] as very [15:21] vanilla and and then I was thinking [15:24] about I go why aren't they as [15:25] interesting or something and they're [15:27] great and they're talented but it's not [15:29] as interesting and I normally when I you [15:31] chat to them you find out oh they have [15:33] two loving parents and they had a great [15:35] childhood um and so for me I think why I [15:39] have certain parts of my personality and [15:41] like to do comedy and stuff is because I [15:44] have this I have a lightness which [15:46] definitely comes from my mom and my [15:47] mom's side of the family that are all [15:49] like that and then on my dad's side it's [15:52] just like dodginess everywhere and like [15:56] like I don't you know alcoholism and [16:00] like addictions and um and and just also [16:05] a mentality of just I don't know how to [16:08] explain it best apart from saying it's a [16:10] bit dodgy but in a way and then [16:13] sometimes when uh I mean I don't suffer [16:16] from like actual depression or whatever [16:18] but then sometimes if you're feeling [16:21] like you're a you know uh sometimes I [16:25] it's feels like a mafia sensation when [16:27] you're like oh I want to get revenge on [16:30] those people or something you know uh [16:33] I'm like shocked of where these feelings [16:35] come from and they're normally from the [16:38] Dark Side um but if I didn't have that I [16:43] don't think I'd be as interesting as a [16:45] as a person or as a performer um and I [16:48] definitely like have sometimes have an [16:50] edginess to jokes and stuff which I [16:53] guess I wouldn't have had if I if I [16:56] didn't have you know one side of the [16:58] family be be a bit dodgy um and the [17:02] other side be light so I knew I knew the [17:05] difference and I knew I kind of had both [17:08] you embody both and that's quite [17:09] interesting yeah when someone can [17:11] present us both at the same time a [17:12] little bit sadistic as well [17:14] but in the in the in the cover of your [17:17] book it says um that you're always [17:19] questioning am I good enough I can [17:21] relate for many reasons of my own to do [17:23] with like coming here when I was do you [17:25] think Steven that's why you're [17:26] successful because you're asking [17:28] yourself that [17:30] question I think it's intrinsically [17:32] linked to why I was apparently so driven [17:35] MH yeah which I I've come to I've come [17:37] to ask myself in recent years am I [17:38] actually driven or am I being dragged by [17:40] something they both look the same yeah [17:43] but when you're dragged it's more it's [17:45] there's it's there's less control yeah [17:47] less ability to stop and slow down and [17:50] are you workoholic I read that the P [17:52] definitely so I think maybe you're also [17:53] in the dragged category to some degree [17:55] and my dragging came from being not [17:58] enough in the context I was you only [18:00] black kid poorest family in the area so [18:03] you're there's a deep sort of sense of [18:05] Shame and insecurity that you're trying [18:06] to fill prove to others and yourself [18:08] that you're you're not my question was [18:10] about when that started in you what made [18:12] you can you look back and find out what [18:14] made you feel like you weren enough I [18:17] think I definitely get self-esteem and [18:19] self-worth from [18:21] achievements um and so when it was in [18:23] school it would be getting 100% in every [18:26] exam and that would be good if I didn't [18:29] I'd feel bad about myself and then I [18:32] don't know just generally being [18:33] successful in things gives me makes me [18:36] feel good about myself but then I was [18:38] thinking about one of the reasons why I [18:40] had uh issues with food and because I [18:44] had low self-worth and and then I felt [18:47] like I was not good enough I was like [18:48] trash and that's why I would trash my [18:50] body cuz I just felt like well I don't [18:52] deserve anything different and then [18:55] that's a really complicated question to [18:57] work out why don't I feel good enough um [19:02] and and I've thought about of a lot and [19:05] and some things I know but then some [19:06] things I think I I don't know why some [19:09] things are as simple as like for example [19:12] being born a girl in the area where I [19:14] was from and boys were more praised like [19:17] even at the dog [19:19] shows did something called Junior [19:21] handling and then if a boy ever entered [19:24] he'd normally win cuz it was like oh boy [19:26] doing it uh whereas girls just just [19:28] weren't [19:29] seen as being as good um the boys school [19:33] I went to an all girls high school but [19:35] the boys school next door was seen as [19:37] more prestigious and better um and um [19:42] and they had the multi-million dollar [19:43] theater at their school and you know it [19:45] was just [19:47] um and so I think some of it is just as [19:50] simple as like being born a girl in in [19:52] the area and I was like God that's so [19:54] dumb though why didn't I um like [19:57] transcend that [19:59] and then some of it must have been from [20:03] not feeling love although obviously I [20:05] know my parents love me very very much [20:09] but um because of I came from a very [20:12] conservative family we didn't really [20:14] talk about emotions and feelings and so [20:17] it wasn't expressed in the way that I [20:19] probably needed it to so I I didn't feel [20:23] good enough unless I was getting first [20:26] in my grade in a subject or something [20:28] and then and then I was congratulated [20:31] and so then I felt good um or winning a [20:34] prize or a trophy and and that's when [20:37] you would get the praise from the people [20:38] you came about yeah and so I just kind [20:40] of went with that um uh but it's just [20:45] but then it's like I like there was [20:47] nothing wrong with me I go why did I not [20:49] feel good enough but I guess I've [20:52] always felt that [20:55] um and it's kind of sad when you think [20:58] about it cuz you're like why would [21:00] somebody it's not like I did anything [21:02] bad or you know should have felt ashamed [21:04] about something I just always felt like [21:07] that I guess it proves that kids they [21:11] don't they're not born with perfect [21:12] self-esteem they do need that to be [21:15] fostered and poured into and nourished [21:18] or else there can be an ABS so what I'm [21:20] saying is there doesn't have to be [21:20] something that happened that proved you [21:22] weren't good enough but there could just [21:23] be maybe something that didn't happen [21:25] that proved you were and I think there's [21:27] all these little micro things that can [21:30] happen um you know you're not chosen for [21:33] something or you're not uh you're always [21:36] at the back at the side or you know [21:38] you're not ever the star or just all [21:41] these little things or no one ever [21:42] thought you'd make it or be anything MH [21:46] um and just like little things that [21:47] little comments people would say or [21:49] something and then um yeah and then that [21:52] all just adds up and you you're 13 14 [21:55] you're in school you're shy this point [21:57] I'm guessing you you have that struggle [21:59] with feeling like you're good enough I [22:00] think that's maybe a symptom of the [22:02] shyness yeah and also like I was just [22:05] very average looking I had like a [22:07] snaggle tooth what's a snagle tooth it's [22:10] like a basically a deformity like a [22:12] deformed tooth like on one side which [22:14] I've had fix now but kind of like a Fang [22:17] I guess but only on one side so it [22:19] wasn't like some cool vampire thing I um [22:23] and then I had that and I was so [22:26] painfully shy where I'd go red in the [22:28] face if a teacher asked me to answer a [22:30] question in class even though I knew the [22:32] answer it was just it was so [22:35] embarrassing and I didn't have any [22:37] friends um and I guess because I thought [22:39] why would people want to be friends with [22:41] me I'm not good-looking or popular or [22:44] cool in any way and and so I just yeah [22:48] it was it was really that was like one [22:50] of the darkest times like when I like 13 [22:53] 14 and and like you know people are kind [22:57] of becoming the M themselves at that [22:59] point and then I read this article in [23:01] the library that said that what your [23:04] personality is at 15 will be your [23:06] personality for Life uh because I used [23:09] to eat my lunches in the library just by [23:10] myself so I was reading stuff all the [23:12] time and then I read this and I went [23:14] like I'm so close to 15 if I don't [23:17] change this is going to be me forever [23:19] and can I imagine my life like not [23:22] expressing anything to anybody just like [23:25] being just shy and introverted and isol [23:28] at ated and I just knew I didn't want [23:31] that that that wouldn't have been the [23:32] happy life for me and not that there's [23:35] anything wrong with being shy like the [23:36] sh sometimes can be like a superpower [23:38] You observe people and you um you know [23:42] you learn a lot by by [23:44] observing but then I just was like no I [23:47] want to have friends and I want to have [23:48] fun and be popular and and so I was like [23:52] oh well I better get a move on and [23:54] luckily I found those motivational tapes [23:56] and then and then they helped me um [24:01] because I thought I want to be somebody [24:03] that expresses myself like literally [24:05] you'd look at me uh and I sometimes see [24:08] it in my niece now I think she has a [24:09] similar thing like it's almost like you [24:11] wouldn't be able to register anything [24:13] that's going on you wouldn't know if I'd [24:14] had a good day or a bad day I just it [24:17] just be like no no expression or [24:20] anything um and then I I was like okay [24:24] I'm going to force myself to like come [24:26] out of my little cocoon or my shell or [24:29] um whatever the metaphor is and just [24:32] break out and with the help of those [24:34] tapes and like it having a strategy and [24:36] how to do it what was the strategy uh [24:39] well there were all sorts of things but [24:40] I remember from that how to win friends [24:42] and influence people there was something [24:45] about talking to five new people every [24:47] day and so that was one of the first [24:49] things I did and like talking to girls [24:51] on the bus or just you know walking up [24:54] through the school Gates and talking [24:56] just talking to the person next to me [24:57] and saying high and what you realize is [25:00] that there's other people as lonely and [25:02] as isolated as what you are and that [25:05] might have been the highlight of their [25:06] day to speak to somebody new and you [25:10] know instead of just sitting in the [25:11] library all day waiting for friends to [25:13] find me which they never would why don't [25:15] I actively go out and join like SP other [25:19] sport teams or other clubs at the school [25:22] and like actively try to make friends [25:25] like it's not just going to happen if [25:26] you're just doing nothing um so there [25:29] were these little tips and [25:32] strategies um but one of which was to [25:35] get [25:36] attention which was to be essentially to [25:39] be naughty to get attention it's kind of [25:42] like that uh you know Eminem the rapper [25:45] if he hadn't put out all these songs [25:47] that were like really controversial and [25:49] had you know outrageous things in them [25:52] would he have been a successful rapper [25:54] probably not and so it was kind of like [25:57] I then to do some dodgy things at school [26:00] to get known to get like a reputation [26:03] which was against my natural personality [26:05] cuz I was such a good little girl um but [26:08] I had to do things outrageous things to [26:12] get attention and then that led to [26:15] popularity then once you have the [26:17] popularity you don't need to do that [26:20] stuff but yeah is there some kind of a [26:22] link there between you the career you [26:25] would then pursue as an actress as a [26:27] performer [26:29] um a comedian all of those things and [26:32] this sort of early desire to have [26:34] attention and validation from you know [26:37] your PE I think it started from just [26:41] like a more normal thing about wanting [26:42] to have friends M and wanting to be [26:45] invited to some parties and um so it it [26:49] started it started from that and and [26:52] like and then you wanted to be respected [26:54] but then to be respected people first [26:56] have to know who you are and so [26:59] sometimes you have to do that [27:00] attention-seeking behavior to get that [27:03] um but but the how I got into like [27:08] acting was really well my mom dragged me [27:11] into it because um I mean the studies on [27:15] that creative arts can really help your [27:17] self-esteem and self-confidence it's [27:19] like insane like it's really good for [27:21] young people who are struggling and my [27:24] mom could see me like struggling and [27:26] having no friends and so mom takes me to [27:29] these drama classes at this community [27:30] center and literally has to drag me out [27:33] of the car I'm holding on to the car [27:34] door with my fingernails like going no [27:36] no no I don't want to go it was so [27:39] traumatic but she was doing it not [27:41] because she wanted me to become an actor [27:43] like we don't have any professional [27:45] entertainers in the family like you know [27:48] uh nobody I know was in the business or [27:50] whatever at that point it was more to [27:52] help my self-confidence and [27:55] self-esteem through the creative arts [27:58] and weirdly it really did because when [28:01] you're shy like I was to play different [28:05] characters it's like an escape because [28:07] it's not really me it's a different [28:09] character and and then you can perform [28:12] as that person and then eventually some [28:15] of that confidence starts coming to you [28:17] the real you um uh from from doing that [28:21] but obviously at the time nobody thought [28:23] I would become a professional actress or [28:25] they would have laughed about that [28:28] scenario it's it's interesting because [28:30] you can see these different drives [28:31] forming within you you've got this drive [28:33] for um I don't know you might say for [28:37] validation externally but then because [28:39] you come from a family that didn't have [28:40] money there's also where you were [28:43] rewarded for academic success or being [28:46] successful at something there's also [28:47] this drive to be successful which shows [28:49] up in early in your story when you start [28:51] selling things and buying things and [28:52] then you do exceptionally well in school [28:55] um you go off to board boarding school [28:56] it's what a 16 years old I think in part [28:58] it sounds like to escape from the [29:00] childhood the household dynamics of your [29:02] father and your mother yeah um you do [29:05] exceptionally well there as well [29:07] exceptionally well and then you end [29:10] up in Africa South Africa I know which [29:14] is random uh so you know a lot of people [29:17] do the Gap here thing and I mean it's [29:21] random but basically as a witness in a [29:23] major crime Squad investigation when I [29:25] was in my final year of school i' [29:28] witnessed something and had to testify [29:31] and then uh through that some people [29:34] were very impressed with my ability to [29:36] go and do that in a case and so I was [29:40] like and and they told me about this [29:42] program that was uh it's a rotary [29:44] program and it was called a youth [29:46] Ambassador um program and basically they [29:49] wanted young people who were very good [29:51] at public speaking and by this point I'd [29:54] done I'd forced myself to do debating [29:56] and public speaking and to get over my [29:58] shyness and so I was quite a good [30:02] speaker and and I got recommended into [30:05] this program and got selected and you [30:07] don't get to choose what country you go [30:09] to they they just select for you so and [30:13] they sent one boy and one girl from our [30:15] district over um to different countries [30:17] and I got given South Africa and I was [30:20] like Co cuz I thought it was going to be [30:22] like The Lion King at first which was [30:24] one of my favorite movies and then I go [30:26] rock up to South Africa a few years post [30:29] apartheid and it was so different to [30:33] Australia like Australia's very safe [30:36] Johannesburg had the highest rape and [30:38] murder rate in the world at that time [30:41] and there were guns everywhere and [30:43] bobbed wir fences and you know attack [30:46] dogs and it was like it was so eye [30:49] openening but then to [30:52] also uh be constantly aware of the [30:55] violence and like I had to carry a [30:57] little like a wooden baton like what you [31:00] see like an old you know policeman in a [31:02] cartoon would would carry because I [31:05] literally if somebody attack me I'd have [31:06] to hit them on the head with it and it [31:08] was like I was like this is crazy like [31:11] there was there was so much going on [31:13] that year um and but that's how I got [31:18] the malaria uh which forced me to have [31:21] this Vision that I was to become an [31:23] actress and I think if I'd never ever [31:26] gone to Africa I never would have had [31:28] that life-changing vision and I probably [31:31] just would have gone back to law school [31:33] and and being being a lawyer in in [31:37] Australia me and you both share that in [31:39] common we both were in Africa and got [31:41] bitten by mosquito you have a vision I [31:43] had a vision what was your vision so I [31:45] my dad was holding so we're in our house [31:47] and they didn't know that I had malaria [31:49] this is what my dad and my mom tell me I [31:50] was very young they were holding me here [31:52] and I was I'd woken up in the night [31:53] because I said there was a man by my bed [31:55] so they' picked me up thinking oh my God [31:58] there's this man in his bedroom and that [32:00] when my dad was holding me like this so [32:02] I can see over his shoulder the man [32:03] would be behind him and I was freaking [32:05] out that there's a man behind him um [32:08] which I was later would call the shadow [32:09] man and wrote a little novel about when [32:10] I was about 14 and this this shadow man [32:14] um because I was losing my mind they [32:15] took me to a hospital and at hospital [32:17] they found out that I had malaria but in [32:19] hindsight they tell the story that [32:20] that's that man saved my life oh you [32:23] know what I mean so I grew up very I [32:25] grew up with this idea that I had a [32:26] guardian angel [32:28] the shadow man but it was just malaran [32:30] hallucinations yeah well like tell about [32:32] your hallucinations I had a n nasty [32:35] strain of malaria and um it was put in [32:38] hospital and you know malaria is so diff [32:41] I don't know whether you remember [32:42] because how old you but it's it felt [32:44] like just felt like I was not in my body [32:47] and and then they take me into hospital [32:49] and give me these drugs and then I then [32:50] I just started hallucinating and I [32:52] hallucinated that I was an actress that [32:54] I was so good that I win an Academy [32:56] Award and I must have I mean I'd seen [32:58] the Oscars on TV I'd obviously never [33:00] been and um and then I just walked down [33:03] the and it was so real like I could see [33:06] all the people with the dresses and I [33:07] get up on stage and then I give an [33:09] acceptance rap rather than an acceptance [33:12] speech because I thought oh yeah that's [33:14] hardcore and at one point I had want I [33:16] had wanted to be a rapper because of [33:18] their coolness and Swagger um didn't [33:21] work out for me Lu but my little rap [33:24] group with my sister yeah didn't work [33:26] out but [33:28] and it was so vivid and real like I [33:31] could like I can still remember [33:34] it and then I came out of hospital I was [33:37] in hospital for two weeks I came out and [33:39] I was like I think I've got to become an [33:41] actress now i' had this vision and [33:44] people go a no like the malaria has [33:47] affected your brain they they're just [33:49] like they thought I was nuts like they [33:51] thought I was crazy and I go no I've [33:54] seen it and they're like no no no like [33:56] you've you've got into the best law [33:58] school in Australia like maybe go to law [34:00] school and have a great career and I'm [34:03] like no I've seen it and I and I think I [34:06] need to be an actress now and then I [34:08] left South Africa a month earlier I was [34:10] supposed to be there a full 12 months I [34:12] left one month earlier uh to audition [34:15] for a drama school in Australia which I [34:16] got rejected because obviously I was [34:18] terrible um and and nobody looked at me [34:22] and go actress nobody so [34:25] um yeah and [34:28] and it still took I think from that [34:30] Vision five years until I really got it [34:34] you could make money from acting H but I [34:37] it was like the vision came to me and I [34:40] watched a lot of Oprah and Oprah was [34:41] like well the universe will tell you [34:44] like first it'll come in little Whispers [34:46] And then it'll be like bricks falling on [34:47] you and I was like but see I've I've had [34:50] the vision I have to I have to do acting [34:53] now um in hindsight yeah was that a [34:58] malaria hallucination or was it divine [35:02] intervention I don't know I think is was [35:04] that some subconscious desire that I was [35:08] never brave enough to say to [35:10] anybody um because I was in the high [35:13] school musicals and plays um you know in [35:17] the musical I was like never cast as the [35:19] lead or whatever but I really enjoyed it [35:22] like I I really did enjoy it and so but [35:25] I just never thought someone like me [35:26] could have a career in that area so I [35:28] was like was that just a subconscious [35:30] desire that just decided to come out [35:32] when I was deathly ill or was it some [35:35] kind of I don't know some higher power [35:38] or something showing me that this was [35:40] more my purpose um cuz I remember a lot [35:44] thinking that time like what is my [35:45] purpose like what am I supposed to be [35:47] doing in the world and I'd write in my [35:49] little diary you know like but again I [35:52] watched a lot of Oprah so I was like you [35:54] know what's my purpose how can I give [35:56] back to people those tapes as well yeah [35:59] probably so you go back to Australia you [36:01] pursue law I guess for the money you [36:03] just thought that was a good well [36:05] because my father had dropped out okay I [36:08] definitely wanted to have a college [36:10] degree and he always said that was his [36:12] biggest regret that he never got his [36:14] business degree and because i' got I was [36:17] so hard to get into this law school you [36:19] almost had to be near perfect in all [36:21] your exams so I just thought I may as [36:24] well just do it as well will you ever [36:26] trying to impress either one of them [36:28] more than the other oh my mom just [36:29] wanted her dream for me was to be normal [36:32] I guess like you know to have friends to [36:35] kind of have a you know relationship and [36:37] be kind of normal so it's not like she [36:39] definitely didn't want me to be some [36:41] kind of a known public person sometimes [36:45] the oldest sibling you're the oldest of [36:46] four right is a bit of a reflection of [36:49] more so of a reflection I think of what [36:51] the parents wanted for themselves I tend [36:53] to think that's a bit of a so I'm [36:55] wondering if your like desire for [36:56] success and valid if it was something [36:58] that you felt from your father like you [36:59] know him he couldn't be that himself so [37:02] maybe he reflected that more praise on [37:04] you when you were objectively successful [37:07] in the things that you did um why would [37:10] you want to be a lawyer is yeah I just [37:13] because if you were smart you'd go into [37:15] Laural medicine um and and so you know [37:19] and they would have loved to have gone [37:20] around and said you know oh my [37:21] daughter's a lawyer at this firm and [37:24] that would have been a great you know [37:26] great career that they would have [37:28] thought that my parents had to work [37:29] really hard to send me to the school [37:31] that I did like at one point apart from [37:33] selling all the dog products my dad was [37:35] also working at the gas station [37:37] overnight and you know just to afford my [37:39] school uniforms and stuff like that so [37:43] so for them a successful outcome would [37:45] have been okay she got into the top law [37:47] school and now she's going to be a [37:48] lawyer and therefore all that money [37:50] spent on education was worth it and you [37:53] go back you do end up qualifying as a [37:55] lawyer yeah um you become a lawyer [37:58] it did take me 10 years though it's [37:59] normally a 5year double degree and I did [38:01] Arts as well um why did it take so long [38:04] cuz you're acting so basically yeah so I [38:06] would I'd be in theater shows at first [38:08] and then it would be TV shows and my law [38:11] school had an 80% attendance rule so [38:13] basically if I started in a semester and [38:17] then for some reason my filming schedule [38:19] or whatever I'd have to repeat the [38:21] subject because if I didn't attend in [38:23] person 80% of the time so it was [38:26] exhausting um often I was would fly have [38:29] to fly into State I'd be filming in [38:31] another state I have to get up at 4:00 [38:33] a.m. in the morning and fly to Sydney to [38:36] law school and then fly all the way back [38:38] that night from the from the first time [38:40] you did whatever you class as like an [38:42] acting gig or tried to be an actress to [38:46] the moment when you feel like you had [38:48] made it how many years is that so I [38:51] started quite late I guess I started [38:54] like 18 turning 19 which is quite late I [38:57] think I think a lot of people start kids [38:59] yeah 12 13 I guess um and then that was [39:03] like proper acting classes like proper [39:06] like with people wanting to do it as a [39:08] career and then I had I wrote my first [39:11] play at 21 I just wrote it in two nights [39:14] and then it won this playwriting [39:16] competition and got put on um and I was [39:19] like holy crap um and then a television [39:22] station gave me $90,000 to put it on [39:24] professionally which was like kind of [39:26] insane [39:27] great luck for the first thing I'd ever [39:30] written um and I realized from that [39:33] point nobody saw me as an actor I wasn't [39:36] like Nicole Kidman or that you know in [39:39] that vein so I realized pretty quick I [39:41] had to write myself my own material if I [39:44] was going to make it but I didn't start [39:47] earning a professional like a full-time [39:49] wage um until I was a regular on a TV [39:52] show at [39:53] 23 at what point in this journey towards [39:56] being an act do you realize that your [39:59] weight is influencing how people see you [40:04] and the way that they're casting you so [40:07] when I was like uh about 21 into like [40:12] 22 uh I had something called PCOS [40:15] polycystic aarian syndrome and one of [40:17] the key signifiers of that was like [40:21] rapid weight gain so all of a sudden I [40:24] mean when I first started acting I was [40:26] just a regular side was a bit athletic [40:28] looking but you know pretty regular um [40:32] and and then all of a sudden I gained 30 [40:34] kilos and was like and I had some other [40:37] symptoms as well I had like some dark [40:39] hair on my arms and there there's a [40:41] couple of key signifiers to it and then [40:44] I went to the doctors and they said oh [40:45] yeah you've got PCOS and in that first [40:48] play that I'd written when I was 21 I'd [40:51] cast a girl who was bigger than you know [40:53] quite a large girl and then I noticed on [40:56] stage like did get way more laughs than [40:58] me and I kind of wrote all the roles [41:01] quite evenly and I was like why is that [41:04] girl getting getting more laughs and I [41:06] honestly thought I mean one she's [41:09] hilarious but it's cuz she's bigger and [41:11] people like laughing at bigger people [41:14] and then there I did this subject at [41:17] University called comedy and power and [41:21] basically you know there is a science to [41:25] if you normally if you want to sleep [41:26] with somebody you're not nor wanting to [41:28] laugh at them so you know if you want to [41:31] sleep with someone you're into them [41:33] attracted to them but normally the [41:35] people that you want to laugh at are [41:37] people that have some kind of immediate [41:39] physical irregularity like you know [41:42] bigger women do do well in comedy um you [41:46] might be really tall really short you [41:48] might have a really big nose something [41:50] something about you that's quite [41:52] distinctive um that people can instantly [41:54] go aha you know and they in more in [41:57] comedy the science of it is more people [41:59] want to be your friend rather than they [42:01] don't want to be your lover they they [42:02] want to be your friend and they think [42:04] you know you'd be good to hang out with [42:06] and have a laugh with and so it was [42:09] really interesting when I gained all [42:11] this weight I was like ah I think I'm [42:13] going to lean into comedy because um [42:18] even though I tried to be a serious [42:20] actress at first I was like hang on this [42:23] which could be seen as a huge negative a [42:26] lot of people would be going oh no you [42:28] know I put on all this weight instead I [42:30] went the opposite way and was like you [42:32] know what I could use this to my [42:33] advantage I like comedy I I I think I [42:37] should go into comedy and use being [42:39] bigger as just what you know a good tool [42:42] in my comedy toolbox and then that was [42:44] kind of reinforced I guess because then [42:46] you people laugh harder and then they [42:47] pay you more and and it is true it is is [42:50] true people like laughed laughed more [42:53] and I lent into comedy and then I got a [42:55] scholarship from Nicole Kidman [42:57] uh to go to New York and I went to a [43:00] second City Comedy School in New York at [43:02] the time um and yeah and then I just [43:07] realized I had a quite a good knack for [43:09] it and that was taking off more than the [43:11] dramatic acting how did you feel about [43:13] yourself at that [43:14] time [43:17] well I guess uh I was quite shocked in [43:21] my Diaries when I looked back at them [43:23] for research for the book even when I [43:25] was 16 and I wasn't big at all I was [43:27] very athletic played lots of different [43:29] sports and and my first goal was like to [43:32] lose two kilos I guess cuz my mom had [43:36] made a comment at some point not not for [43:39] any bad reasons she just you know [43:42] thought she had weight issues herself [43:44] and just thought you know if I lost [43:46] those two kilos I might feel better in [43:48] myself or something like that and so I [43:51] just when I gained all that weight there [43:55] there's kind of a dichotomy cuz at one [43:57] point I'm like this could help me [43:59] professionally in comedy and you know [44:02] big girls do do better in comedy I can [44:05] see a pigeon hole for myself in that [44:08] area and you can be successful and I'd [44:10] just gotten on a television show when I [44:12] was 23 playing kind of the I guess the [44:15] whale character is what they sometimes [44:17] refer to me as and they refer to you as [44:19] the whale character yeah well like I was [44:21] the obese girlfriend of one of the guys [44:24] who he was embarrassed to go out with me [44:28] so the whole joke was like he was trying [44:29] to hide me because he didn't want people [44:32] to know I was in a relationship cuz I [44:34] was obese and that was the whole it was [44:37] very popular show in Australia it's [44:39] called fat pizza and and so on the one [44:42] hand there's that but then on the other [44:46] hand I felt [44:49] like I knew I was eating very badly I [44:52] mean my diet at that point was just [44:55] carbs pretty much I remember coming to [44:57] New York and going to Comedy school and [44:59] you know just eating a pint of ice cream [45:01] for dinner or a whole big bag of chips [45:04] or something and and then and I so on [45:07] the one hand I could be confident and [45:10] know that this could be good for me [45:12] careerwise but on the other hand I [45:14] knew I'm not treating myself right this [45:17] is not good you know I'm not being [45:21] healthy um and so I had both going on in [45:24] my mind at the same time how do you play [45:27] a role in a movie that fat Pizza movie [45:30] where you're basically [45:34] a someone something's somebody that [45:37] somebody else is embarrassed [45:39] about and how does that not impact your [45:41] self-esteem at some level cuz I'm [45:42] thinking if I was playing in a movie [45:44] someone an individual that someone was [45:46] trying to hide the thing is like cuz [45:48] when it's acting it's not quite you and [45:52] only on a rare occasion would people [45:56] confuse [45:57] like cuz obviously the guys on the show [45:59] were pretty great and respectful off off [46:01] camera and everything um it was that was [46:03] just the character I was playing and I [46:06] was lucky to be on a comedy show and uh [46:09] to be earning money that way but then I [46:11] remember going to a post office and just [46:13] like mailing a letter and the guy was [46:16] obviously a fan of the show and started [46:18] saying oh Tula that was my character oh [46:21] he's so fun you know and like he in real [46:24] life was saying stuff like the guy on [46:27] the show but this is now real life yeah [46:29] yeah yeah and it was very hurtful in in [46:32] real life whereas for acting it's you [46:34] know kind of can separate it a little [46:36] bit what did you say to him that day [46:37] that post post office I didn't say [46:38] anything I just kind of walked out and [46:41] thought Oh that guy's an idiot he [46:43] doesn't understand the distinction [46:45] between a comedy show and you know a [46:48] real person and and so that was just a [46:51] bit hurtful um but it but I guess it [46:55] must but then on the other hand it it's [46:58] hard to [47:00] feel sorry for myself because then [47:03] obviously not in Australia but then when [47:04] I came to America and played like Fat [47:06] Amy which [47:07] is probably my most famous character I [47:11] mean now I'm making millions of dollars [47:12] from playing the the fat funny girl and [47:15] really leaning into that and [47:18] so and what do you care about more than [47:20] millions of dollars or the you know what [47:23] I mean and that's well now I care about [47:25] my health and wellbeing but but back [47:27] then I guess I thought oh well I'm [47:30] becoming successful and this is helping [47:32] me become successful I think this is [47:35] really at the heart of what your book [47:37] takes on is the idea [47:39] that you know we can become quote [47:42] unquote [47:45] successful in the eyes of the world but [47:47] that doesn't necessarily mean we're [47:49] successful holistically in all the [47:52] things that we need to to be successful [47:54] and I I I relate to that so much because [47:57] because of the things we've described [47:58] about being driven and dragged and all [47:59] that stuff I think I became successful [48:01] in one of maybe the 10 things that I [48:03] needed to be to be like rounded as a [48:05] person yeah and anomalies like you that [48:08] achieve such great success often there's [48:11] a trade-off yeah so I felt like I needed [48:14] like Olympic Athlete dedication to make [48:17] it in the entertainment business I mean [48:18] the odds of making it are so small one [48:21] to make it in my home country and then [48:22] to come to Hollywood and to make it um [48:26] the odds are you know Millions to one [48:28] really of having the career that I've [48:30] had um so you know like an Olympic [48:33] gymnast if you meet people and they're [48:36] like incredible at [48:38] gymnastics but then you talk to them um [48:42] about their personal life or their their [48:45] skills and uh and then [48:49] basically you can tell they're like [48:51] stunted I guess is the is the right word [48:54] um so they've had this drive and this [48:55] focus and they've achieved and they if [48:58] you're an athlete you know like get to [49:00] the Olympics or or to me like being in [49:03] an Oscar nominated movie um I haven't [49:05] won obviously the vision hasn't come [49:07] true um but but was I stunted I was like [49:12] if you really knew me you'd know that [49:14] yeah I hadn't been on out on a date um [49:18] until my early 30s I hadn't had that in [49:21] Intimate experiences [49:23] and uh and relationships and so all that [49:27] area of my life like wasn't great but I [49:31] was like the most successful person to [49:33] ever come out of my high school or you [49:35] know so like there were great things I [49:38] could go courtside at the LA Lakers [49:41] games or you know like they awesome [49:43] stuff but then there was [49:46] like yeah on a personal side I wasn't [49:50] the the best person and then I then I [49:52] knew that I knew oh God okay so I've [49:56] excelled in one area but now there's [49:58] others that I'm like quite lacking in [50:01] and the other area was apart from love [50:03] life and kind of social life was also um [50:06] Health you have you move to America um [50:10] you get um you work very hard for the [50:14] next couple of years you get this you [50:15] know this opportunity in bridesmaid [50:16] which then takes some time for it to [50:18] come out I read in your book that you [50:21] got paid $3,500 for your role in [50:23] bridesmaid which is quite shocking um [50:26] yeah that my first job in America and I [50:29] mean I was very lucky to to get it I [50:31] mean what an awesome cracker over a [50:33] movie to get that but to be paid that [50:36] little and basically that $3,500 I then [50:39] had to pay to the union to join the [50:40] union so I basically I made no money I [50:42] lost money because I had to pay to go to [50:44] the premere like to buy my dress and [50:46] everything so I lost money doing [50:48] bridesmaids but and then you have to [50:51] wait it normally takes a whole year when [50:52] you film a movie for the movie to be [50:54] released so that was a really skint year [50:57] where I was living on $60 a week in La [50:59] once I'd paid my rent and my car hire [51:02] and that's not a lot of money so like I [51:05] wasn't partying or living living this [51:08] life it was [51:10] basically just having that Focus trying [51:13] to write for myself like going to [51:15] auditions and um and I had to wait a [51:17] whole year till bridesmaids came out and [51:19] then suddenly it comes out there this [51:20] big hit and I book six movies off the [51:23] back of it one of which was Pitch [51:24] Perfect uh which was kind of my real [51:26] golden ticket um that movie and became [51:30] the highest grossing musical comedy [51:32] franchise of all time yes and there was [51:34] very very very successful and very very [51:37] awesome fun movies to be a part of so [51:40] they're they're like such a gift those [51:42] movies your life changes at that point [51:44] because you you're sort of globally [51:46] internationally famous now and surely [51:50] that means job done we can we can chill [51:53] we can go look at other things and I say [51:55] this because there so many people me [51:56] being probably one of them that maybe [51:58] told ourselves in the past that once we [52:00] hit the Pitch Perfect the global Smash [52:02] Hit success then we'll chill then you'll [52:05] be happy and then it'll be fine and then [52:07] uh but then of course then you come up [52:09] with some different goals that I'm like [52:11] is even harder you guys may have heard [52:14] our most recent news the launch of [52:15] flight Studio which is our brand new [52:17] podcast and media technology company as [52:19] we scale this new company we also need [52:21] to scale our team and my first Port of [52:23] Call for hiring across flight Studio has [52:25] been link LinkedIn jobs who are a [52:27] sponsor of this podcast we're hiring for [52:30] around 30 to 60 roles right now and [52:33] Linkedin has been me and my teams goto [52:35] their platform makes the hiring process [52:37] intuitive smooth and super efficient [52:40] LinkedIn has helped me and my team [52:41] Source professionals we can't get [52:43] anywhere else even those who aren't [52:46] actually searching for jobs right now [52:47] but might be open to the perfect role [52:49] with us in a given month over 70% of [52:52] LinkedIn users don't visit other leading [52:54] job websites they visit LinkedIn so if [52:56] you're not not looking on LinkedIn [52:57] you're looking in the wrong place so [53:00] today I'm giving the dire of coo [53:01] Community a free LinkedIn job post head [53:03] to linkedin.com [53:05] doac now and let me know how you get on [53:08] terms and conditions apply a real P [53:11] pivotal moment and turning point in your [53:13] life is clearly when you went to that [53:15] doctor that day after deciding that you [53:17] wanted to have a child mhm yeah why did [53:22] you decide you wanted to have a child [53:24] was there an influence something you'd [53:25] seen or something I yes I never thought [53:27] cuz I was so career driven I thought uh [53:30] you know I'd never thought I would want [53:32] to have a family um and also being in my [53:34] business it was so so egocentric the [53:37] business um and so I just didn't think [53:40] that was in the cards for me and I also [53:42] thought oh well I'm probably never going [53:44] to find a partner or whatever and then [53:48] it was just like this biological clock [53:49] inside me when in my late 30s just [53:52] started like ticking really loudly and I [53:54] kind of say it's like imp Peter Pan and [53:56] that crocodile that has the clock inside [53:58] it it was just like like you could hear [53:59] it going tick tick tick I was like do it [54:02] now like it'll otherwise it'll be too [54:03] late and I would see babies on the [54:06] street with their moms and be like a and [54:09] I just like keep staring at all the [54:11] babies and and just like like I just [54:14] really felt this urge in inside me to be [54:17] a mother and even though I didn't have a [54:19] partner at that point and I just was [54:23] like uh I think I should uh try [54:27] and and but I was getting I was like 39 [54:29] years old and I didn't even know that I [54:32] had eggs or what could be done and um [54:35] and then I went to the fertility doctor [54:38] and and by this point like I'm living [54:40] this really large like you know I am [54:43] medically obese but I'm living this kind [54:46] of amazing life I traveled the world I [54:49] learned how to have fun and uh not be so [54:52] much of a workaholic and I was like you [54:54] know like that lizo song like it's bad [54:57] o' like that was like my life like [54:59] I'm walking around just loving it I've [55:02] been successful now and then the doctor [55:04] looks me up and down and [55:06] goes yeah but you're not healthy and he [55:10] said you have a much better chance of [55:12] having a baby if you were healthy and [55:14] the way he said it with like kind of [55:17] quite a lot of disdain in his voice I [55:19] was like huh cuz that's that was a [55:23] stranger most people you know in [55:26] Hollywood they're not going to come up [55:27] to you and go oh you're engaging in bad [55:31] you know eating habits obviously like um [55:34] they're just like oh congratulations on [55:35] your new movie and yay it's great um you [55:38] play Fat Amy and that's awesome and how [55:41] successful it's been uh I don't think so [55:44] he wasn't in my [55:46] demographic he looked a bit like the [55:48] doctor from Doc from um Back to the [55:52] Future okay yeah older guy with white [55:54] wiry hair so yeah I don't think he was [55:57] in the pit perfect fan base and he just [56:00] he just said it straight to my face and [56:02] then I go oh I'm not healthy cuz and I [56:06] knew deep down I just suppressed those [56:08] feelings but I knew deep down I wasn't [56:11] healthy but I didn't have any serious [56:13] diseases I was doing incredible things [56:16] all around the world so I just didn't [56:19] and then he said that and it like it [56:20] really sunk in it was like this [56:22] criticism that was I couldn't ignore and [56:26] I is like oh God okay yeah he is right [56:30] and I'm not healthy um because on the [56:33] one hand I'm like a beacon of body [56:36] positivity and that CU I really do think [56:38] beauty is at any size and um and and had [56:43] and had grown you know so much [56:45] self-confidence um by that point but [56:48] then on the other hand I knew I was [56:50] engaging in unhealthy eating behaviors [56:52] and that was something I wanted to [56:54] improve in myself and then I I thought [56:56] well the next year 2020 I'll make the [56:59] whole year about getting healthy like I [57:01] said I'm not going to work weirdly I [57:03] couldn't have predicted that a pandemic [57:04] was going to happen uh I'd already [57:07] planned not to work that year and to [57:09] take a whole year to do Health stuff you [57:13] you get back in the car after that [57:14] doctor visit and you describe kind of [57:16] your what's going on in your brain but [57:18] you you've as you said you know at that [57:21] point you knew you weren't healthy deep [57:23] down deep down yeah um every one kind of [57:26] knows you know if you if you are [57:29] medically obese you kind of know that [57:31] yeah but to get from there to taking any [57:35] action it's really hard to to change [57:38] behavior in such a way yes especially [57:39] because I yes had I tried to go on diets [57:43] before had I gone on diets had I gone to [57:46] like a little health farm and you know [57:48] lost 5 seven pounds in a week and and [57:51] then you never sustain it and then it [57:53] goes back up so I'd like it's not like [57:56] never tried I just never thought because [57:59] always the weight would come back on and [58:01] that was just my homeostasis or whatever [58:04] from my body was like at 102 kilos and [58:07] that's kind of just how it was and I was [58:10] like oh well I could never permanently [58:13] change that I just thought no I can get [58:16] two degrees from University and become [58:18] an international movie star but I just [58:21] can't like with the weight I was like I [58:22] can't like just you know I don't know [58:26] I'm just not right in that area I never [58:28] I'll never be healthy in that [58:31] way and that one comment from that [58:34] stranger yeah it was something in the [58:37] way he said it I was like sugar I'm not [58:40] like I'm not healthy [58:43] like and that must be what a lot of [58:46] people thought they just never said it [58:48] to my face um and then it was kind of [58:52] the motivation almost not really for [58:55] myself and my health but for a future [58:59] child that I thought well now I've got [59:01] to fix this um and work really hard um [59:05] to do it because if I I I tried so many [59:08] time I don't know 20 times or whatever [59:10] in the past to but it always only lasted [59:13] a short term and then I was like well [59:16] okay but this is different cuz now the [59:18] motivation is to have a child so that's [59:21] like a different motivating factor you [59:24] want to have a child this doctor says [59:25] you'll have a a chance if you're healthy [59:27] you leave there that day you must also [59:29] have it in the back of your mind that [59:31] people are paying you millions and [59:33] millions and millions of dollars I think [59:34] around that time that year You' made [59:35] like $20 million in movies or whatever [59:37] um they're paying you because you fit [59:39] this [59:40] Persona that they want yeah so as soon [59:43] as I started telling people in my team [59:45] about this they're like oh no no no why [59:48] would you want to lose weight like that [59:50] no I wouldn't if I was you I wouldn't do [59:52] that cuz then you lose your [59:54] multi-million dollar pigeon hole that [59:55] you've so so successfully created and [59:57] look at all the work you've done to get [59:59] that and now you're just going to throw [60:01] it [60:02] away so I was then literally like okay [60:06] what do I do with my life am I get [60:09] healthy but I lose my career or do I [60:13] just stay the way I am and maybe never [60:15] have a [60:16] child and like that was literally kind [60:18] of how it was positioned to me and so [60:23] even though literally everyone around me [60:25] pretty much said as you are I just felt [60:28] like nah I got to I think I know deep [60:32] down that I'm engaging in unhealthy [60:34] behaviors and I'm going to I'm going to [60:36] work on my health and try to have a [60:39] child thinking at that point I know it [60:42] sounds simplistic but thinking that my [60:43] career could be over [60:45] then but I was like no it's too that's [60:48] too [60:50] important going on that Journey losing [60:52] the weight and all those kinds of things [60:54] is never a straight line yeah know it's [60:56] it was the I mean the pandemic helped a [60:59] lot cuz literally everything stopped um [61:03] and and I could just focus focus on [61:06] being healthy was that became a big [61:09] blessing um to me and when I really [61:13] focused and did the emotional work [61:16] because there's things like that I write [61:17] about in the book that I just never [61:20] thought about until I started [61:22] emotionally processing things did one of [61:25] your contract say I think it was Pitch [61:27] Perfect say that you couldn't lose 10B [61:30] of weight contractually yeah so that's [61:32] like quite common you can't drastically [61:33] change your appearance so that's pretty [61:35] much in all acting contracts um it's not [61:39] just about weight it's about your hair [61:41] you know what you look like um and you [61:44] can't go you know too much either side [61:48] um that's basically because sometimes in [61:50] films you have to do re- shoots or [61:53] sometimes you know they might want to do [61:54] a sequel or something and so you kind of [61:57] have to stay the same so literally like [61:58] I have to ask somebody if I'd want to [62:00] cut my hair right now uh to a different [62:03] color or style or whatever it's just [62:06] it's just a thing in the business [62:07] because you could be asked to do a [62:08] re-shoot on a film a year later you have [62:12] to kind of look the same so this journey [62:14] of losing [62:15] weight tell me about this process what [62:18] helped you so I was like as you can [62:20] probably tell like I'm quite goal [62:21] orientated and uh and so I was like okay [62:25] 2020 is be my year of health I'm themed [62:27] it I'm going to put it on Instagram so [62:29] I'm like held responsible yeah H you [62:32] know the other times it would be a bit [62:33] more private like okay I'm going to go [62:35] to this health farm or whatever and I'm [62:37] like okay it's going to be my year of [62:39] health and I'm just going to focus on [62:41] being healthy and um the the thing Anne [62:45] haway introduced me to this doctor who [62:47] was um great cuz I guess she saw me on a [62:50] film we did together called the hustle [62:52] and she kind of saw me struggling and [62:54] his specialty was kind of dwelling into [62:58] emotional emotions and how they can [63:00] affect your physical health and I never [63:03] even thought about that like I just [63:04] thought you know going on a diet is [63:06] about eating less and exercising more [63:09] and um I just never thought but to me [63:13] because I was an emotional eater really [63:15] the kicker was to process emotions and [63:18] to learn how to process emotions and [63:20] obviously from my family environment I [63:22] had definitely not learned um any skills [63:26] in that area and was kind of holding on [63:29] to everything like a so like a bag of [63:31] groceries of this little trauma and this [63:34] and and they are holding on to it m um [63:37] and so I had to start processing that um [63:41] with the doctor like we did a phone call [63:43] every two weeks and and at first it's [63:46] awful you're like oh my God what do I [63:48] talk you know and talk about my personal [63:50] things and it felt awful to do it at [63:53] first um and then I did it and [63:56] then gradually it kind of I started [64:00] processing things and then I could [64:02] release them the emotions and and then [64:06] and then the weight loss kind of came [64:08] but because I wasn't working I I did do [64:11] crazy workouts like I was working out [64:13] like 2 hours 2 and 1 half hours a day um [64:17] to help you know to help accelerated I [64:20] was cooking my own meals I was you know [64:22] concentrating on eating high protein [64:24] meals and like I was just doing all the [64:27] right things because I didn't have any [64:28] stress of work and um and I was just [64:31] like okay this is going to be it but the [64:34] real thing was the emotional what what [64:37] are those bags that you let go of [64:39] emotionally I think a lot of it like I [64:42] don't think I would have been able to [64:43] write this book if I hadn't have done [64:44] that uh emotional work with the doctor [64:47] because um there was just stuff that I [64:50] suppressed you know a lot of stuff about [64:52] my father and my complicated [64:54] relationship with him and and the [64:56] sadness of him dying um uh he suddenly [65:00] had a heart attack and and died right [65:03] you know close after Pitch Perfect one [65:05] came out um and I think just all these [65:10] little things in my [65:12] childhood [65:14] um that you know I just I guess I [65:19] never thought that that was associated [65:21] with my weight but it obviously was and [65:24] because I hadn't processed things it was [65:26] was like I was holding on to barriers it [65:28] was like the weight was a barrier one [65:31] for like intimacy for example you know I [65:34] never wanted a relationship or wanted to [65:37] be attractive or whatever and the weight [65:39] was kind of a barrier because that kept [65:41] all the people is do you believe that [65:43] I've heard that from psychologists a few [65:45] times even on this podcast before I've [65:47] heard one particular guy called Johan [65:49] har who wrote a book called Lost [65:50] connections tell me that in a study [65:51] where they looked at um women who who [65:55] were clinically obese and then they put [65:58] them through a weight loss program they [66:00] found that some of the women would then [66:01] re regain weight and the Catalyst for [66:04] that was them being hit on they [66:05] discovered in those women that there was [66:07] early sort of abuse or there was issues [66:10] so they made this link that sometimes we [66:12] use weight as a defense from sort of [66:14] sexual advances or and I definitely was [66:16] because I wanted to be in the fat funny [66:18] friend role which I played quite well in [66:21] real life and on screen because I didn't [66:25] you know I didn't want somebody to be [66:27] coming home with me and then seeing how [66:29] I really lived or felt you know why I [66:32] don't know I guess I just was [66:35] embarrassed or do you remember men or [66:38] women hitting on you at any point in [66:40] your 20s and then actively rejecting [66:43] them off so I literally was like for [66:45] some people like um but didn't anybody [66:48] come up to you whatever I was like no [66:50] like I honestly don't remember one [66:51] person um apart from the little [66:53] boyfriend I had when I was 16 which was [66:55] the most innocent thing ever where we [66:57] just held hands and maybe kissed once [67:00] but [67:00] anyways uh when I got famous from Pitch [67:04] Perfect there was like a waiter at chat [67:07] Marmont that like gave me his number and [67:10] like you know basically said you [67:12] know take me home with you tonight kind [67:15] of thing and I was shocked and I was [67:17] there with my buddy Matt Lucas and I was [67:19] like what do I do with this like it was [67:22] kind of like the first attention so only [67:25] when I [67:27] started like noticing any attention was [67:29] when I became very successful so that [67:33] did I almost felt like I was in [67:35] invisible attractiveness wise until that [67:39] point did you text the waiter no I [67:41] didn't but Matt goes you should have [67:43] what are you doing go go for it and I go [67:45] Matt no like I well I was so shy in that [67:48] area I was like I'm not just going to [67:50] bring a waiter home from the chatow [67:52] Marmont um we get a lot of people from [67:55] prison as well when I became famous they [67:57] like DM you and like go oh be my wife [68:00] and all this stuff like oh my God like [68:04] but no like I just unless I was just so [68:06] blocked off to that I didn't notice [68:09] anything you know I when a woman in [68:12] particular gets over 30 what I've heard [68:15] and especially considering some of my [68:16] friends who are women over 30 is people [68:18] around them sometimes start getting a [68:20] bit pushy like their friends start you [68:23] know come on re come on go for him I'll [68:26] give him a chance yeah did you feel that [68:28] sort of external pressure at all from [68:29] people my father would always say oh on [68:32] The Limited times we talk oh are you [68:35] seeing anybody i' always get so angry at [68:38] that question i' like why is he asking [68:40] me that as if I'd want to get married [68:43] like him and my mom were and how [68:45] terrible that was and I'd always just [68:48] get angry at it and just be like no and [68:50] just like I don't know it just shut down [68:54] about that issue is it because it came [68:56] from him who was yeah in particular and [68:59] I was like oh God what like out of all [69:01] the people to say something most people [69:04] didn't didn't say anything but I know [69:07] there is that pressure like uh for [69:10] single women over 30 you just get like a [69:14] little bit and but I felt it more in my [69:17] later [69:18] 30s um and I I went on a dating app at [69:22] one point to like try to meet people did [69:25] that go cuz I was like well I actually [69:27] met some good people in real life yeah [69:30] it was like dating at um Rya that has [69:32] some celebrities on it they would let me [69:34] on it I tried when I was I tried when I [69:35] was 18 I didn't have anything going on [69:37] in my life but I tried and the problem [69:38] is you would have been great I think now [69:40] I think they give me a shot now but back [69:43] then I submitted my application when I [69:44] was like 19 so they're still looking at [69:46] the same application and I'm still in [69:47] the waiting list so but now I'm in a [69:48] relationship and I don't need that so [69:50] yeah you don't need it now so it's their [69:52] loss um but I was yeah no went on and I [69:56] you know dated a few great guys and [69:58] actually had had fun and it was good but [70:01] I had to because I was so behind the [70:03] eightball on dating and love and [70:05] relationships like I had to almost like [70:08] in my year of health I had to do like a [70:10] year of Love experiment before I did [70:12] that before year of health um to like [70:15] kind [70:17] of put myself out there which was hard [70:19] and challenging like it's a going on [70:21] dates and you got to get all dressed up [70:24] and you know and then go and have it [70:26] lunch or dinner with someone that you [70:28] might not know whether there's any [70:29] chemistry and and you were a virgin at [70:31] to 35 yes yeah that's right yeah so [70:34] going on those dates is there is there [70:36] anxiety in your brain because you know [70:37] if this date goes well there might be an [70:39] expectation that I go to the bedroom [70:41] with this individual yeah well that was [70:43] all later I mean weirdly the the guy I [70:46] lost my virginity to at 35 I was I was [70:49] set up with and and I [70:52] think part of why I think I might have [70:55] been attractive was because I was in [70:57] like a number one movie at the time and [70:59] whatever and that guy was like an [71:02] awesome guy and I'd met him and I'd [71:04] waited so long at that point I really [71:06] wanted to lose my virginity to someone [71:08] who I was really really into and I and I [71:11] just I really like this guy I thought he [71:13] was so funny and cute and um and [71:16] potentially like marriage material at [71:18] the time I met him and so and so when I [71:21] did my year of Love experiment that was [71:23] like a few years later so obviously I I [71:27] mean I don't think I could have done it [71:29] if I was still a virgin and going on all [71:31] these dates because um at least I had [71:34] some experience by that point but I [71:36] dated like 50 people in the one year in [71:39] 2019 um to just get some I don't know [71:43] like to find like cuz I just was behind [71:45] the eightball I'd never dated properly [71:48] um so I needed to get some experience in [71:50] that area and and legitimately trying to [71:53] find the one but um yeah it didn't [71:57] didn't quite work out you mentioned that [71:59] you experimented with a zmek oh I did [72:02] but I wish I'd known about it in 2020 it [72:05] wasn't big then no I didn't even if I [72:07] had known about it I would have tried it [72:09] 100% um but more for uh once I'd lost [72:14] like 35 kilos I was like I can't [72:19] continue working out and having this [72:21] level of focus like I can't and I was [72:23] very worried that the weight would come [72:25] back on and then now like I mean now I [72:27] have gained back um 10 kilos or so [72:31] because of um I guess having a baby I I [72:34] just can't work out in the level that I [72:37] used to and then I directed a movie [72:39] which was a lot of sitting on a chair [72:41] all day long and being stress still [72:43] stress heaing and which I'll get under [72:45] control when I'm you know not working 7 [72:48] days a week um uh and so I've tried it [72:53] for a few months for like weight [72:55] management I guess you guess you'd call [72:57] it um I definitely noticed that it it [73:01] did I have like an unlimited ability to [73:04] eat sweets and chocolate and ice cream [73:06] and stuff and that drug helped um for me [73:09] not to feel full MH whereas I wouldn't [73:12] feel like that before I would just could [73:14] eat a ton of it like you know um so so I [73:19] actually actually liked it but um yeah I [73:23] know I think I actually think for people [73:25] like me those drugs can be really [73:28] effective but obviously I'm not on it [73:29] right now but maybe if I you know [73:33] prescribed it by a doctor I'd go back on [73:35] it when you lose weight your resonance [73:38] with your audience changes as well [73:41] because to I I think Adele spoke to it [73:43] as well and when she lost a lot of [73:45] weight she there was a [73:47] backlash yeah I mean I think there was [73:50] some people going oh she won't be funny [73:52] anymore but then I had this movie come [73:53] out senior year play a cheerleader who [73:56] went into a coma and then wakes up 20 [73:58] years later and uh that was my first big [74:01] comedy and it got something like 89 [74:03] million unique Netflix accounts watch it [74:06] in the first 10 days around the world [74:08] which was huge huge huge number so I was [74:10] like oh well I think they're probably [74:12] the people are wrong about that I won't [74:15] be funny anymore or but did they feel [74:17] let down people I think some people did [74:19] it's like say if you're in a family and [74:22] your sibling makes a change for the [74:24] better and then you feel like ah well it [74:27] makes me feel bad because I didn't make [74:29] the change and it makes me feel not as [74:32] good about myself so therefore I'm going [74:34] to hate them for for changing how dare [74:36] they change how dare they try to rise [74:39] above um and I think there is some [74:44] attitude but then you think to those [74:46] people what would make them happy you go [74:48] like the John Candy way and you die of a [74:51] heart attack or you know something [74:53] happens to you like [74:55] you get some serious uh I mean my father [74:58] died of a heart attack with [74:59] complications with diabetes so I was [75:02] like I was heading towards the diabetes [75:05] route if I kept going and I was like [75:08] well does that make those people happy [75:10] what you just say as you are and be [75:12] unhealthy and then you die prematurely [75:15] that's not a great outcome like what do [75:16] those people want but I think as a [75:20] comedian you have so many different [75:22] things in your toolkit uh and mainly [75:25] your personality and so even though it's [75:29] easy to go oh you have that physical [75:31] irregularity and that's why people love [75:33] there are so many other elements it's [75:35] not as simplistic as that and so I just [75:38] utilize slightly different things have [75:40] you noticed any change in the way that [75:42] people book you professionally or or [75:44] respond to you professional or the roles [75:45] you're given based on your well now I do [75:47] a lot more dramatic stuff I mean I'm [75:49] still obviously doing the comedy stuff I [75:51] mean I've just directed a movie which is [75:53] a big huge new career step but yeah I've [75:57] got a movie coming out the arm and the [75:58] seahorse here in the UK which is totally [76:01] serious and I just played Lady Capulet [76:04] in a film which is totally not what you [76:06] think I would I would do uh and it's [76:09] awesome but it's kind of how I started [76:11] my career doing Shakespeare and stuff um [76:14] before I was bigger and so it's kind of [76:16] coming back now to to doing that kind of [76:19] thing but more I noticed um I mean now [76:22] I'm kind of in the middle because I'm [76:24] like I've gained back some weight it was [76:27] so weird to be to be someone who walks [76:30] around the world kind of feeling a bit [76:32] invisible um attractiveness wise and [76:36] then suddenly I lost all this weight and [76:37] got so much positive validation like it [76:40] was insane like people would open doors [76:43] for you or carry your groceries to the [76:44] car for you or offer to do something for [76:47] you or whatever and I just it was so [76:50] weird to experience that and I've [76:53] experienced both sides of the coin like [76:55] to be kind of being invisible in that [76:56] area and then to be visible and it was [76:58] it was bizarre it was like the attention [77:01] and I was like oh is this what hot [77:02] people feel get all the time um and they [77:06] get this kind of positive bias in [77:08] society all the time um and I got such [77:13] positive reinforcement for losing weight [77:16] um from the press and from people like [77:18] every single person would make some [77:20] comment about it and and it's hard not [77:23] to fall into liking that and you know [77:27] now I've just been too stressed being a [77:29] director that I've kind of gone off the [77:31] band Health bandwagon but you've got I [77:34] will get back on it 42 years old you [77:36] underwent IVF and you had your daughter [77:38] Roy um but it appears you're still a [77:41] workaholic you just said earlier about [77:43] working seven days a week I know I've [77:45] I've come off a 9mon marathon of seven [77:48] days a week I did an action film um [77:51] called bride hard directed my movie The [77:53] Deb written the book and yeah so I'm [77:57] about to have a holiday what are you [77:58] doing it for um cuz you could you know [78:02] you've got multiple houses all over the [78:04] world you've got huge success you've [78:07] you've you've done it rebel I know and I [78:09] and my love life there is a happy story [78:11] to everyone listening I I have an [78:14] amazing partner Ramona who's absolutely [78:17] an incredible partner um and so that [78:20] story had had a happy ending as well I [78:23] keep saying to people I'm going to [78:24] retire now you know and then they're [78:26] like yeah you'll have like 2 days off [78:28] and then you'll have some idea for a [78:30] movie and then you'll want to do it um [78:33] so I think I'm always that little girl [78:36] who at the dog shows was like reaching [78:37] into bins to collect the aluminum cans [78:40] to earn money because I felt like I [78:42] didn't have anything cuz I didn't have [78:43] any money and so so part of me is always [78:47] that I have just have this drive to earn [78:49] money um and and that that motivates me [78:54] and it's weird like I achieve a goal [78:57] like coming to America was just to be in [78:59] one Hollywood movie but then you achieve [79:02] it and then it's not enough and then you [79:04] want you know and now like you know I'd [79:06] like to win an Oscar or you know um have [79:10] that level of success you know winning [79:12] the Oscars is going to change Zill I [79:13] know probably not probably like there's [79:15] a curse on some women that win the [79:17] Oscars uh then they sometimes their love [79:20] life crumbles and they they get no jobs [79:23] for 2 years when after they win the [79:25] Oscar sometimes it's like a curse see [79:27] you didn't see that in the hallucination [79:28] what happened after no I didn't see that [79:29] I just saw winning and feeling great [79:31] about it I mean I definitely know I need [79:33] a break over the summer and I will have [79:35] have fun times and I've learned how to [79:37] have fun now cuz before like in my 20s I [79:39] didn't even do that I wouldn't even go [79:41] on a holiday i' be like no I have to [79:43] keep working hard are you are you [79:45] concerned and I'm asking this really for [79:47] myself here because I think I am are you [79:48] concerned that you're going to look back [79:51] later in life and go you know what I [79:54] didn't have my priorities in [79:56] order yeah maybe and so I think having [79:59] my gorgeous daughter and looking at at [80:02] her she makes me want to like not work [80:05] as much and I think I didn't know how [80:08] she was going to affect my life um and [80:11] then now just knowing how much joy it is [80:14] just to be around her and it makes me [80:17] think less about myself and more about [80:19] her and my family um and so from that [80:22] level I want to um not not work as much [80:26] and I have to be a bit more selective [80:28] you one of the things that I [80:30] found I have to say awesome I'm just [80:32] going to be honest with you in your book [80:34] was um well there's so many things I [80:35] love the pictures and the whole design [80:37] of the book and how you weave humor into [80:40] what I consider to be pretty important [80:41] lessons of life [80:44] but oh you're holding up the redacted [80:48] Pages pages that that just have black [80:50] lines through them which means that [80:51] you've basically removed those sections [80:53] now you well I didn't remove them okay [80:55] the publisher the UK publisher did [80:57] because in the in the UK the laws are [80:59] different here around what you can say [81:01] about instances in your life yeah and [81:02] being a qualified lawyer I know you know [81:05] all about defamation laws um and it's a [81:09] bit um the the US is a bit more free [81:13] speech in in terms of defamation laws [81:16] and the UK and Australia have higher [81:18] standards this chapter is called Sasha [81:21] Barone and other other now [81:23] obviously I'm just going to take your [81:25] lead on this yeah but um this has been a [81:28] huge story and I saw on your Instagram [81:30] some Instagram it's weird because the [81:32] book is about my whole life you know and [81:35] yet this particular chapter has gotten [81:37] the most attention I guess because I'm [81:39] saying something negative about a male [81:43] comedian Sasha Baron Cohen um and in it [81:46] describing like the worst professional [81:48] experience of my career which was 10 [81:50] years ago now on a movie called Grimsby [81:54] and working with him and it was an [81:56] experience that left me [81:59] feeling humiliated and degraded as a [82:02] person and and [82:05] so that chapter I guess because he's [82:09] come out and uh denied it it became a a [82:12] big [82:13] story what can you say about that [82:17] experience I can say why I wrote it um [82:22] and purely why it's reductive is um [82:26] because it's the publisher that gets [82:28] sued and obviously they they wouldn't [82:30] want to get um get sued by somebody [82:33] who's quite litigious so so that's why [82:36] they did that but the story is pretty [82:38] much out there um so you could easily [82:40] kind of work out uh what I'm talking [82:42] about in the book but I wanted to write [82:47] it because uh my story is not one of um [82:51] you hear stories terrible stories of [82:53] assault and you know [82:55] um thing things in Hollywood mine is not [82:58] that uh it's more [83:00] just kind of a situation at work [83:04] that the 44y old version of me would [83:08] have left and would have said H screw [83:11] you I'm out of here I'm you know got [83:15] enough self-esteem to leave and know [83:17] this isn't a good situation for me and [83:20] then back then I stayed in it and and I [83:23] did re-shoot on on the film because I [83:26] didn't want to be seen as [83:28] unprofessional and this was before the [83:30] me to movement and even though I wasn't [83:33] being treated great I just I thought oh [83:37] well I have to be professional um and [83:40] and I have to stay and and finish it uh [83:43] and it was a complicated situation we [83:45] were both represented by the same agent [83:46] at the time and um there are a few [83:49] things going on and and I guess I wrote [83:52] it so that people the more people talk [83:55] about stuff like this hopefully the less [83:57] it happens and then also [84:01] um just I think I held shame because I [84:05] went along with it and it's such a fine [84:07] line [84:08] between comb what's comedy and what's [84:11] playing a character and then really [84:13] crossing the line into personal [84:16] humiliation um and I think on that [84:20] project it did it did cross the line and [84:22] I felt shame that I actively went along [84:25] with it and so I guess writing it is [84:29] kind of releasing the emotions I was [84:33] holding on to for that and I have no [84:36] motivation I mean I write in the chapter [84:38] it's not about canceling somebody it's [84:40] just about um it kind of goes to show [84:44] why my self worth wasn't um wasn't where [84:49] where it should have been and I should [84:51] have stood up for myself and that's [84:54] that's and now the 44y old version of me [84:57] would uh handle things much much [85:01] differently and it's just it was 10 [85:03] years ago and it was hard to know what [85:06] to do even though I'm a lawyer and I [85:08] made the complaints and did what I could [85:10] do at the time I now would act very [85:14] differently this is your life story this [85:16] is your Memoir of all the experiences [85:19] you've had Rebel when you look back [85:21] through all of these pages and all of [85:22] these days and all of these sort of [85:23] seasons of your life was there a hardest [85:27] moment oh God there's been so many hard [85:31] hard moment I think well probably the [85:34] darkest point in my life was when I was [85:35] about 13 and you know you hit puberty [85:39] and you feel all these emotions [85:42] and I felt you know unlovable unworthy [85:46] my life wasn't going to be anything um [85:49] and I was just isolated we were living [85:51] out in the bush at that that point where [85:53] we had like snakes come crawling on the [85:56] back porch and Bush rats and like I was [85:58] just Liv like it just was such a dark [86:02] time um and that was probably the hard [86:05] one of the hardest things what's what's [86:07] next for Rebel what's well I'm still [86:10] directing the movie because I've got all [86:12] the technical elements to do now so [86:14] that's a big new challenge and I've [86:16] directed this very empowering musical [86:19] that's very very joyful and and very [86:21] it's hilarious so I'm very proud of that [86:25] um and then I think I don't know I still [86:29] have because that Vision was I won an [86:31] Oscar and I haven't won one so I'd like [86:33] to do that but then you know I would [86:36] just like to be more of a mom who has [86:40] spends that quality time with her family [86:43] and is yeah is that kind of uh person [86:48] and not so striving but I don't know I [86:51] always have this thing in me that I'm [86:53] very driven and working hard and just [86:55] always had that but I would like to [86:58] maybe let go of that if you were to um [87:00] go back now to that 13-year-old Rebel [87:02] that was going through all of those sort [87:03] of challenges in her mind and you could [87:06] tell something say something to her that [87:08] would better equipped her [87:10] to um for the next sort of 20 years to [87:13] come because there's going to be lots of [87:15] you know young women that are struggling [87:17] with all the things you described and [87:18] young men oh yeah and I know what it's [87:20] like to feel invisible to be so lonely [87:23] isolated to just not feel like you have [87:26] anything going for you like I just a [87:29] pretty average I mean I was smart I [87:31] always had being smart but like it's [87:34] average no one really looked twice or [87:36] thought twice about me and and and I [87:39] know what it's like but it's if you want [87:42] to be determined and you want to change [87:44] your life like you can and you don't [87:46] have to stay in that situation like you [87:49] can actively do things to make your life [87:52] better and to make it more how you want [87:55] and I mean at the time I just had to [87:58] tell myself that there was nobody around [88:00] to to tell me that but to those young [88:03] people out there I just think [88:06] um you you can like you can actively [88:09] take steps to do it and a great thing is [88:13] the creative arts because which can be [88:16] so many different things like writing or [88:18] painting or uh not not just acting and [88:22] being on a stage all those things cuz [88:25] you might not know what your voice is or [88:27] how to express yourself and those kind [88:30] of areas are so important because it can [88:33] help you find your voice MH um and so I [88:37] would say to like to try to encourage [88:40] you to go into that those kind of [88:42] Pursuits even if it's just something you [88:44] do in your bedroom with a notebook and [88:46] you're writing song lyrics or you're [88:48] yeah writing a diary or something um [88:52] that form of creative expression can be [88:54] really really useful and you're the [88:57] prime example of that in many respects [88:58] you went from being that extremely shy [89:00] individual to the point as you say that [89:02] people thought it was some kind of [89:03] social disorder um to being a Hollywood [89:06] Mega star you also went in the personal [89:09] context you went from being someone who [89:11] lost their virginity at 35 years old and [89:13] wasn't in a relationship and was very [89:14] sort of clearly avoidant yeah to being [89:17] which I do slightly regret now like I [89:19] was like oh maybe but then yeah I again [89:22] I do believe that I wouldn't have the [89:24] career that I had if I'd focused more on [89:26] relationships and and health before that [89:30] there's a lot of people out there that [89:31] are arriving maybe in their late 30s and [89:35] that maybe have hear that clock ticking [89:38] yeah and then they reflect on the [89:39] decisions they've made over the last 20 [89:41] years and they say you know what [89:42] actually I hear the clock ticking and I [89:45] do want a family a lot of people also [89:47] say I hear the clock ticking I don't [89:48] some people just don't hear the clock [89:49] ticking at all yeah um but there's a lot [89:51] of people that are arriving at that age [89:54] and going okay the priorities I had in [89:58] hindsight now maybe I maybe I got [90:02] something wrong here earlier and it's [90:04] difficult and I think that's really what [90:05] your your book does so well is it's so [90:07] honest about that sort of internal [90:09] conversation you had with yourself about [90:11] okay there are changes I need to be made [90:13] made if I want to achieve something else [90:15] and I've decided I want something else [90:16] and throughout your whole story it's so [90:18] clear that you can change yeah and it's [90:21] never too late to change and it's yeah [90:23] and I really if anybody listening is [90:26] like a late bloomer like like me I mean [90:29] I don't think there's any shame in that [90:30] and that's one of the reasons why I put [90:32] that virginity story in the book because [90:34] like on the one hand it's very [90:36] embarrassing for me to say that but then [90:39] if that helps other people out there [90:40] feel like oh you know okay well Rebel [90:45] was like that and look at the life she [90:47] has now and um so I would want them to [90:50] not feel embarrassed about that because [90:52] doesn't really matter when you Bloom [90:54] like what age or um you know things have [90:58] come to me later in life but I think all [91:00] that matters is that it it has come to [91:03] me um now why am I saying the word come [91:07] so much talkity I don't know um but I [91:12] yeah I just I'm glad that my life turned [91:16] out you know I didn't get all these [91:17] awesome things in my 20s it it happened [91:20] later and um and and that's okay we have [91:24] a closing tradition on this podcast [91:25] where the last guest leaves a question [91:26] for the next guest not knowing who [91:27] they're going to be leaving it for MH [91:28] and the question that's been left for [91:30] you [91:32] is those people that you love the most [91:37] what is preventing you from spending [91:39] enough time hugging them are you able to [91:42] change [91:43] this okay so what's so the people I love [91:48] the most obviously apart from my family [91:51] is like my you know my my immediate [91:53] family is my daughter and my partner and [91:56] what's preventing me from hugging them [91:58] the most is literally physically not [92:00] being with them because I'm like out out [92:04] promoting the book and um uh or if I'm [92:08] shooting something and it's not [92:09] appropriate for the baby to come um so [92:13] so not physically being in the same [92:15] country or or city as them because I'm [92:18] working too much and it says are you [92:20] able to change this and I and I am able [92:23] to change it by uh not just [92:27] accepting too much work [92:30] and um you know prioritizing the family [92:35] more Rebel your book is incredible it's [92:38] incredible for so many reasons because [92:39] it seeks to answer those really critical [92:41] questions that I think a lot of people [92:42] are struggling with which is about [92:44] romance it's about fertility it's about [92:46] am I good enough it's about finding love [92:47] it's about it's an honest reflection of [92:50] what I think a lot of Workaholics go [92:52] through in the modern era while also [92:53] weaving in a story which I don't think [92:55] many people know about your early [92:56] childhood and where you've really come [92:57] from and all the odds you've had to [92:58] fight against coming from where you've [93:00] come from to get to where you ended up [93:03] really remarkable in every sense of the [93:05] word but you confront the trade-offs [93:07] which a lot of people don't always talk [93:08] about those trade-offs we all have to [93:09] make because as you said in this [93:10] conversation you can't have it all in [93:12] life and so you know you can't have it [93:15] all at the same time yeah for sure you [93:17] can probably have it all just not at the [93:19] same time yes anything yeah and life [93:21] just presents these tra especially for [93:23] people that are anomalies they have to [93:24] make even bigger trade-offs than others [93:26] it's a remarkably funny book um in such [93:29] a subtle untry hard way which is 100% [93:34] but even you in conversation are the [93:35] same you're funny without even trying [93:37] which is remarkable and the almond and [93:39] the Sea Horse I I was told it was coming [93:41] out on the 10th of May yeah in cinemas [93:43] here in the UK yeah so it's out now and [93:45] everyone can go and watch it yeah um and [93:47] that's about traumatic brain injury it's [93:49] very serious uh movie and that was where [93:52] I kissed my first woman in that movie [93:54] The French actress Charlotte gainsburg [93:56] and the rest is history yeah that's yeah [93:59] part of my big part of my life on screen [94:02] Rebel thank you thank you stepen I [94:04] really appreciate it and it is my most [94:06] vulnerable intimate thoughts put out [94:09] there um but yeah even if like 10 people [94:13] relate to it and get something positive [94:15] out of it that's like that means the [94:17] world to me and um so even why it's [94:20] nerve-wracking having the book out there [94:23] it's it's awesome at the same time [94:28] [Music]