Dr Wendy Suzuki Maps Neurological Shields Against Dementia Risk

Wendy Suzuki 博士详解抵御痴呆症的神经防护屏障 有氧运动可立即促发生长因子释放，刺激海马体神经发生，为抵御认知衰退构建结构性缓冲。 Wendy Suzuki 博士阐释了针对性锻炼、良好睡眠和丰富环境如何促进神经可塑性，并在前额叶皮质与海马体等大脑关键区域构建结构韧性。她详细说明了散步、正念及地中海饮食等生活习惯如何预防认知衰退和阿尔茨海默病。讨论还涵盖了记忆技巧、社交联结与浪漫爱情的神经科学机制。最后，Suzuki 博士将日常焦虑和悲痛重塑为体现人类价值与爱的重要信号，并强调同理心是人类最宝贵的品质。 研究显示，65岁以上老年人每周步行3次或以上，可将未来5年内患痴呆症的风险降低30%；体育锻炼释放的生长因子能刺激海马体新生脑细胞，为延缓阿尔茨海默病症状提供结构性缓冲。 (18:43) 高效构建长期记忆依赖四大核心支柱：重复以强化神经通路、与已知概念建立关联（如记忆宫殿技术）、新奇刺激激活注意力，以及杏仁核介导的情感共鸣。 (27:35) 每周进行2至3次、每次45分钟能提高心率的有氧运动，足以显著改善注意力与记忆表现；单次锻炼也能迅速释放多巴胺与血清素，即时提升前额叶执行功能与专注力。 (37:19) 深度睡眠在神经系统维护中不可替代，海马体借此固化日间形成的长期记忆，脑脊液循环系统也会在此期间高效冲刷并清除代谢废物。 (45:09) 哈佛大学成人发展研究证实，稳固的社交纽带是预测健康衰老与终生幸福的最关键指标；相反，长期社交孤立与高压状态会释放大量应激激素，加速神经元连接退化与脑萎缩。 (47:48)

Neuroscientist Dr. Wendy Suzuki argues that targeted lifestyle interventions—most notably aerobic exercise, restorative sleep, and social connection—physically alter brain anatomy through neuroplasticity and adult neurogenesis, creating a structural buffer against dementia and chronic anxiety. Exercise, Neurogenesis, and Dementia Defense (18:43) Dr. Suzuki posits that maintaining regular physical activity builds a "big, fat, fluffy brain" capable of delaying the symptoms of neurodegenerative disease. Rooted in research tracing back to Dr. Marian Diamond's enriched-environment rat experiments, physical movement stimulates the release of neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, and endorphins) and neurotrophic growth factors. These growth factors target the hippocampus—one of only two brain regions capable of generating brand-new neurons—while stimulating new synaptic connections within the prefrontal cortex. Because Alzheimer's disease attacks the hippocampus first, increasing structural tissue creates a larger physiological buffer. Although Dr. Suzuki notes exercise cannot eliminate the underlying disease state, the additional volume forces the pathology to destroy significantly more tissue before visible memory impairments emerge. In public health research cited by Suzuki, adults aged 65 and older who walked three or more times per week reduced their five-year probability of developing dementia by 30%. Furthermore, in her laboratory's trials, previously sedentary individuals assigned to 45-minute spin classes two to three times weekly exhibited measurable gains in hippocampal memory recall, attention-shifting, and baseline mood. Memory Systems and Optimal Cognitive Processing (16:01) The brain relies on anatomically distinct structures to manage different forms of memory: the striatum governs motor skills, the prefrontal cortex manages short-term working memory, and the hippocampus coordinates declarative facts and events. Dr. Suzuki cites Eleanor Maguire’s study of London taxi driver trainees navigating "The Knowledge" as proof that intense learning reshapes anatomy: trainees who successfully passed the examination demonstrated selective volume growth in the posterior hippocampus compared to those who failed. Long-term memory retention depends on four primary pillars: repetition, association, novelty, and emotional resonance. During emotional events, the adjacent amygdala stimulates the hippocampus to reinforce consolidation. Beyond long-term adaptations, Suzuki highlights that a single acute aerobic session immediately floods the prefrontal cortex with dopamine, transiently sharpening focus, reaction time, and verbal articulation. Conversely, sleep deprivation degrades these networks by halting hippocampal memory consolidation and blocking the cerebrospinal fluid flush required to clear toxic metabolic debris. The Neurological Cost of Digital Overstimulation (52:35) Dr. Suzuki warns that pervasive digital media consumption acts as a severe neurobiological disruptor. Young individuals frequently log up to seven hours of daily screen time, engaging with variable-reward mechanics that mimic slot machines by triggering addictive dopamine feedback loops. Persistent exposure elevates chronic stress responses; sustained high levels of stress hormones physically degrade synaptic connections and destroy brain cells. Modern digital lifestyles also displace the core structural pillars of brain health: physical activity, restorative sleep, and in-person interaction. Suzuki notes that everyday anxiety surged by approximately 20% globally during the pandemic, driven by continuous global crisis exposure, workplace micro-stressors, and hyper-quantified social comparison. When denied stimulation, many individuals struggle to sit alone with their thoughts, depriving the hippocampus of the quiet, internally directed cognitive downtime necessary for creative synthesis. Physiological Stress Regulation and Social Connection (66:22) Human biology lacks an evolutionary mechanism to differentiate between physical predators and modern social stressors, causing minor digital hostility or fear of failure to activate the full sympathetic fight-or-flight cascade. To counterbalance this response, Suzuki outlines methods to consciously activate the parasympathetic "rest-and-digest" system: taking as few as three slow, deep breaths manually drops the heart rate and redirects blood flow away from large muscles back to core systems, while a ten-minute walk rapidly decreases circulating anxiety. In her volume *Good Anxiety*, Suzuki reframes anxiety and grief not as pathology to be suppressed, but as informational radar pointing toward core personal values and deep attachment. Long-term neural health remains fundamentally tied to interpersonal relationships; citing the Harvard Study of Adult Development, Suzuki notes that strong social bonds serve as the single most powerful predictor of longevity and healthy aging, whereas chronic loneliness sustains toxic systemic stress that accelerates brain atrophy. Because the fundamental root cause of Alzheimer's disease remains unknown and pharmacological solutions remain limited, Dr. Suzuki frames proactive lifestyle modification as humanity's most potent neuroprotective defense. However, the transcript leaves open the practical challenge of reversing population-wide digital addictions and sedentariness in societies increasingly structured around continuous screen engagement.

纽约大学神经科学与心理学教授 Wendy Suzuki 博士指出，人脑具备终身可塑性，通过规律运动、充足睡眠与真实社交等生活方式干预能够构建“丰满强韧的大脑”（big, fat, fluffy brain）。她强调，尽管目前科学界仍未阐明阿尔茨海默病的根本病因且药物干预有限，但主动的生活习惯能为海马体与前额叶提供神经保护缓冲，显著推迟认知退化症状的显现。 神经可塑性与认知结构的经验重塑 (12:37) Suzuki 博士指出，20世纪60年代前科学界普遍认为成年人脑结构固定不可逆，而 Marian Diamond 博士针对成年大鼠的环境丰富化实验颠覆了该假说：生活在配有频繁更换玩具与多个同伴环境中的大鼠，其大脑皮层显著增厚且突触连接增多，后续研究证实仅提供奔跑轮便能诱发相似的皮层生长。人类大脑同样展现出强烈的经验依赖性可塑性，在 Eleanor Maguire 博士对伦敦出租车司机进行的四年追踪研究中，成功通过极严苛空间路线测试“The Knowledge”的候选人，其负责空间导航与陈述性记忆的后海马体体积出现显著扩张，而中途放弃或未通过者则无此变化。 前额叶皮层（位于前额后方，掌管执行控制、决策与工作记忆）与海马体（位于颞叶深处，负责事实和事件的长时记忆）构成了高阶日常认知的中枢。记忆的长期固化主要依赖四大支柱：通过重复强化神经通路、借助既有认知网络建立关联（如记忆宫殿法）、利用新奇刺激激活注意力系统，以及依托紧邻海马体的杏仁核在发生强烈情绪时释放信号以深度巩固记忆印迹。 运动刺激神经发生与阿尔茨海默病防御 (18:43) 运动是提升大脑结构与功能韧性最直接的干预手段。有氧运动不仅促使大脑释放多巴胺、血清素、去甲肾上腺素和内啡肽，还会向海马体释放关键生长因子，直接刺激成年神经发生（促成全新神经元生长），并促进前额叶皮层形成新的突触连接。Suzuki 强调，阿尔茨海默病通常最先侵袭海马体，通过长期锻炼储备更大体积的海马体虽不能消除底层病理，但能提供结构缓冲，使病理必须破坏远超常态的组织量后才会暴露出临床记忆损伤。针对65岁以上老年人的研究表明，每周散步3次或以上者在未来5年内罹患痴呆的风险降低了30%。 在运动剂量方面，Suzuki 实验室的受控试验证实，此前三周内运动不足30分钟的低体能受试者，在接受每周2至3次、每次45分钟的动感单车训练后，其海马体记忆表现、注意力切换能力与基线情绪均显著改善；高频锻炼者的认知收益更随运动量增加而持续扩大。除长期结构适应外，单次运动即可诱发急性神经效益，在公开演讲或重要工作前进行锻炼能即时向运动与前额叶皮层灌注神经递质，显著提升专注力、加快运动反应速度并改善情绪。 现代损耗因素与神经保护日常协议 (45:09) 现代生活习惯中存在多项损害神经韧性的风险因素。慢性睡眠剥夺不仅阻碍海马体对日间记忆的重播与巩固，还会削弱脑脊液对代谢废物的夜间清除功能，导致毒性代谢杂质在脑内堆积。此外，久坐、酗酒（严重破坏慢波睡眠与快速眼动睡眠周期）以及超加工饮食都会加速大脑衰老；相比之下，富含未加工全食与健康脂肪的地中海饮食具备充分的护脑证据支持。 针对青少年每日长达约7小时的屏幕与社交媒体暴露，Suzuki 指出其刷屏机制构成了类似老虎机的可变奖励循环，持续引发应激激素激增并导致神经连接断裂与脑细胞死亡，同时严重挤占运动、睡眠与真实交往。为打破多巴胺成瘾循环，她建议进行为期两周的手机断联重置。Suzuki 个人遵循的晨间优化程序包含：约45分钟聚焦于水流与动作细节的茶道冥想（强化前额叶第10区调控）、约30分钟有氧与抗阻训练、以冷水结束的冷热交替淋浴以激发天然肾上腺素激增，随后摄入均衡营养早餐。 压力调控、焦虑价值与人际社群力量 (64:02) 日常焦虑源自交感神经系统自动激活的“战或逃”反应，然而进化系统无法区分致命猛兽威胁与社交媒体侮辱，导致心率上升、瞳孔散大及消化系统受抑的生理级联反应频繁因微小社交刺激而被触发。Suzuki 说明，通过3次深长缓慢的呼吸可以直接激活副交感神经系统，手动降低心率以打破应激闭环；10分钟的短途散步同样能即刻降低循环焦虑水平。焦虑情绪不应被完全视作病态，其本质是指向核心关切的预警雷达——例如社交讨好往往折射出对深度人际关系的珍视。 真实的社会纽带是延缓大脑衰老的重要保障。哈佛成人发展研究跨越数十年的追踪表明，人际关系的深度是预测健康衰老与幸福感的最关键指标，而慢性孤独则会加速脑萎缩与认知衰退。在经历三个月内相继失去患阿尔茨海默病的父亲与突发心脏病的弟弟后，Suzuki 认识到悲伤是此前深厚爱意的真实投射；直面情绪痛苦所带来的情感对比，不仅赋予了幸福感更深的基础，更从神经与心理层面上塑造了深刻的共情能力。 Suzuki 博士总结认为，每个人一生只有一颗大脑，且鉴于神经退行性疾病目前缺乏逆转性疗法，将神经科学转化为日常的身体锻炼、深度睡眠、情绪认知与线下社群联结，是维护长期认知寿命的核心防线。面对数字化带来的注意力分散与孤独危机，主动重建现实互动与神经保护习惯是抵抗脑衰退的关键。

## Background 本期节目由播客频道《The Diary Of A CEO》（主持人为 Steven Bartlett）于 2024 年 5 月 23 日发布在 YouTube 平台。节目特邀纽约大学神经科学与心理学教授、《Good Anxiety》与《Healthy Brain, Happy Life》畅销书作者温迪·铃木博士（Dr. Wendy Suzuki），深入探讨体育运动重塑大脑可塑性、预防阿尔茨海默病与失智症的惊人神经机制，以及如何通过生活习惯打造巅峰脑健康。 ## TL;DR 铃木教授结合尖端科研实证与自身经历，系统阐述了规律有氧运动与步行如何通过神经递质和生长因子滋养海马体与前额叶皮层，从而延缓认知衰退并强化注意力与记忆。节目拆解了大脑记忆系统的运作法则，指明重复、联想、新奇感与情绪共鸣是深植记忆的核心要素。同时，访谈深刻揭示了慢性失眠、久坐不动以及社交媒体沉迷对神经元连接造成的器质性破坏，警示数字化孤立带来的心理与生理危机。最后，铃木教授结合丧亲之痛重新诠释了焦虑与悲伤的积极价值，强调终身守护不可替代的大脑，并通过真实的人际连接与慈悲同理重获生命意义。 ## Atmosphere & style 现场以亲手托起真实人脑标本“贝蒂”的震撼开场，迅速将观众带入存在主义层面的哲学沉思与敬畏感之中。主持人史蒂文敏锐真诚的追问与铃木教授热情且极富感染力的解说相得益彰，不仅用“老豆腐”等生动比喻化解了晦涩的脑解剖知识，更直击现代人普遍的焦虑与手机依赖痛点。整场对话的情感弧线在谈及至亲离世与科学探索的局限时达到高潮，严谨的科研理性与深沉的人文关怀交融，给听众带来既醍醐灌顶又温润治愈的深度聆听体验。 ## Bulletin - [18:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1123s) 温迪·铃木教授指出，体育运动能即刻为大脑带来多巴胺、血清素等神经化学洗礼；临床研究证实，65岁以上老年人每周规律散步3次以上，未来5年内罹患失智症的风险可直接降低30%。 - [52:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3153s) 社交媒体界面的“老虎机式”随机奖励机制会引发多巴胺依赖，其伴随的慢性心理压力导致皮质醇持续过载，进而侵蚀神经突触甚至造成脑细胞凋亡。 - [01:06:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3982s) 对抗日常焦虑无需剧烈干预，有意识的3次深呼吸能直接激活负责“休息与消化”的副交感神经系统，迅速下调心率并平息交感神经引发的应激风暴。 - [01:11:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4282s) 脑部扫描证实，热恋初期会强烈激活大脑多巴胺奖赏回路与脑岛，而在长期稳定的亲密关系中，该神经模式会自然演变为更具韧性、类似深层亲情的依恋结构。 ## Key takeaways - [12:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=757s) 成年大脑具备高度的可塑性，戴蒙德教授的经典动物实验证明，规律运动（如奔跑轮）能直接促使大脑皮层增厚并激增突触连接。 - [16:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=961s) 伦敦出租车司机通过高强度路线考核后海马体后部显著增大的研究，直接印证了成年人高强度认知训练在物理层面重塑大脑结构的能力。 - [18:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1123s) 无论从30岁还是65岁开始注重脑健康都绝不晚，持久的体育锻炼能建立深厚的“脑储备”（Brain Reserve），通过促进海马体神经新生延缓神经退行性疾病的发病进程。 - [22:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1348s) 规律步行是防御阿尔茨海默病最简便且成本最低的生活方式武器，它能有效保护前额叶皮层，改善注意力的聚焦与敏捷切换能力。 - [26:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1595s) 大脑拥有三大分工明确的记忆系统：依托海马体的陈述性记忆、依托纹状体的运动反射记忆，以及由前额叶皮层掌管的工作记忆（大脑临时草稿纸）。 - [27:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1655s) 强化记忆的关键四大法则是重复、联想（如记忆宫殿）、新奇性以及情感共鸣；其中情绪刺激会激活杏仁核，向海马体注入强烈信号以巩固长期记忆。 - [41:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2516s) 单次有氧运动可在几分钟内提升情绪、缩短反应时间，并通过向依赖多巴胺的前额叶皮层供给递质，立竿见影地优化公开发言时的专注度与语言组织力。 - [45:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2709s) 深度睡眠不可替代的两大神经功能在于：驱动海马体巩固白天吸收的事实记忆，以及通过脑脊液循环冲刷清除脑内代谢废物与毒素。 - [46:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2818s) 孤独对神经具有实质性器质损伤，长期的慢性社交隔离会诱发压力性脑萎缩，而地中海饮食与日常轻量级社交连接是延寿与护脑的关键支柱。 - [52:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3153s) 社交媒体引发的病态比较与信息过载，通过持续释放过量压力激素破坏突触连接，挤占了睡眠、面对面社交与体育锻炼等维系大脑健康的核心基石。 - [01:04:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3862s) 人类的压力应激系统无法区分致命猛兽突袭与恶评私信，呼吸作为极少数受自主意识控制的入口，能通过缓慢深呼吸快速撬动副交感神经平复危机反应。 - [01:08:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4098s) 焦虑和悲伤并非需要彻底切除的病态缺陷，而是反映内心价值观的罗盘；深刻的悲痛往往正是过往深沉爱意的明证，接纳痛苦能转化为宝贵的同理心与生命智慧。 - [01:22:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4960s) 科学理性存在认知边界，将严格的科学求证与社群归属、信仰精神及慈悲心相结合，能够为对抗现代孤独危机提供更为充盈的心灵解药。 - [01:27:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=5243s) 每个人一生中仅拥有一颗无法替换的大脑，在日常生活的每一个当下通过运动、睡眠、学习与真实的人际连接来滋养它，是终身最重要的投资。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=0s) 人脑标本“贝蒂”与节目序幕 在演播室中，纽约大学神经科学与心理学教授温迪·铃木（Dr. Wendy Suzuki）带来了一个装着真实人类大脑标本的箱子。这个浸泡保存的大脑被起名为“贝蒂”（Betty），当主持人史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）依言亲手托起它时，忍不住惊叹它的触感居然是湿漉漉的。以这个震撼的开场为起点，两人迅速切入本次对话的核心——如何利用神经科学的工具和技巧，将人类大脑调整到最健康、最巅峰的状态。 在随后的精华片段中，铃木教授抛出了一连串颠覆认知的研究结论：不仅运动中的每一滴汗水都在重塑大脑，饮食（如地中海饮食与咖啡的利弊）、人际连接（孤独感对脑组织的真实损伤）、乃至恋爱状态下大脑奖赏区域的神经激活，都直接决定着认知功能的盛衰。面对现代人普遍抱怨的“记性差”，她指出人类完全可以通过特定技巧让记忆牢固扎根；而对抗衰老与神经退行性疾病最强效的防御武器，正藏在每个人日常的习惯之中。 紧接着，主持人史蒂文·巴特利特向观众宣布了一个喜讯：《CEO日记》（The Diary Of A CEO）的订阅量正式突破了600万大关。为了答谢受众，团队推出了频道历史上前所未有的“订阅者抽奖”活动（Subscriber Raffle）。在接下来的一个月里，每期节目都将随机抽取三位订阅者，分别送出价值1000英镑的代金券、亲临现场观看幕后录制的机会，以及一次与史蒂文进行10分钟一对一畅聊的专属电话通话。 ### [02:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=138s) 为什么我们需要一个“丰盈饱满”的大脑 节目正式开始后，史蒂文提到铃木教授的工作重点之一是帮助人们打造一个“又大、又胖、又蓬松”（big, fat, fluffy）的大脑。铃木教授笑着确认了这一说法，并解释道，“丰盈饱满”在神经解剖学上意味着神经元突触丰富、血流供应充足、神经新生处于活跃状态，这正是健康大脑的物理表征。她的第一本畅销书《健康大脑，快乐生活》（Healthy Brain, Happy Life）便系统阐述了如何运用神经科学与心理学的智慧让大脑更好地运转，而这种生理层面的改善最终直接转化为了生活的幸福感。 铃木教授指出，现实中绝大多数人都忽视了自己大脑的价值。现代人愿意花海量的时间和金钱去健身房雕刻腹肌、锻炼手臂线条，却对颅骨之内的器官漠不关心。然而，每个人头颅中装载的这个大脑，并非只有爱因斯坦或居里夫人的才算杰作，普通人脑也同样是“人类已知宇宙中最复杂的结构”。仅仅是看清眼前的面孔、在脑海中辨认轮廓、并在下一次收听播客选集时准确检索出这张脸，背后都需要数以亿计极其繁复的神经计算支持。她希望通过科普改变公众的视角，让人们从盲目执着于外在身体部位，转向关注并滋养大脑。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 运动与环境刺激对大脑结构及功能的改善路径 accDescr: 展现生活方式干预如何通过影响前额叶皮层与海马体，进而全面提升认知表现与情绪状态。 subgraph Input["生活方式干预"] EX["规律体育锻炼"] MD["冥想与专注训练"] end subgraph Brain["核心大脑结构"] PFC["前额叶皮层 (PFC)<br/>包含第10区 (Area 10)"] HPC["海马体 (Hippocampus)<br/>颞叶深处双侧结构"] end subgraph Benefits["认知与情绪输出"] C1["专注力聚焦与转移<br/>执行决策与情绪调节"] C2["长效事实与事件记忆<br/>信息检索与整合"] end EX --> PFC EX --> HPC MD --> PFC PFC --> C1 HPC --> C2 ``` ### [04:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=263s) 核心脑区解析：前额叶皮层与海马体 当史蒂文追问，如果像他这样身兼创业者、播客主理人并拥有多重社交与亲密关系的人，拥有了一个“丰盈饱满”的大脑，生活会出现怎样的质变时，铃木教授拿出了随身携带的人脑解剖模型，重点标明了两个对锻炼和冥想反应最为剧烈的脑区： * **前额叶皮层（Prefrontal Cortex）：** 位于额头正后方，是人类高级认知功能的中枢，掌管着注意力分配、注意力转移、高阶决策以及个性特征。铃木教授指出，科学证实冥想对前额叶皮层最前端的“第10区”（Area 10）有着极佳的强化效果，而日常体育运动也能显著增进该区域的功能。 * **海马体（Hippocampus）：** 位于大脑深层的颞叶内部，左右半脑各有一个，其名称源自希腊语的“海马”（因形态酷似海马而得名）。海马体是形成并巩固关于事实和事件的新长期记忆的关键引擎。 铃木教授用史蒂文的工作现场举例：在主持高质量访谈时，主持人必须实时调用前额叶皮层来深度聚焦于嘉宾所说的一言一语，快速决断下一个追问切入点，同时还要调动海马体精确检索有关嘉宾背景资料的每一个细节。不论是播客主播、大学院长、授课教授还是各行各业的普通人，只要通过科学方式让前额叶皮层和海马体变得健康饱满，工作表现与日常沟通都会迎来质的飞跃。 ### [07:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=429s) 秘鲁漂流与改变一生的“科研顿悟” 在谈到自己为何对运动与大脑的关联产生如此炽热的研究激情时，铃木教授回忆起了一段十分私密而深刻的人生转折点。当时她在纽约大学正处于争夺终身教职（Tenure）的关键期。在学术界，助理教授只有短短六年的时间来证明自己能做出开创性的研究成果，一旦失败就会面临被解聘的残酷现实。在“不发表就出局”的巨大高压下，她切断了几乎所有的社交生活，陷入了日以继夜、孤独无休的工作狂模式。 五年过去，她感到身心俱疲、彻底陷入职业倦竭（Burnout）。为了喘一口气，毫无朋友社交圈的她孤身一人报名前往秘鲁，参加为期两周的激流皮划艇漂流之旅。在秘鲁，一行人穿行于湍急河谷、宿营在古老印加遗址之上，风景壮美绝伦，但铃木教授却惊愕地发现自己竟然是整个旅行团里身体素质最差、最虚弱的人。结束旅程返回纽约后，她暗下决心“再也不要在任何旅途中成为最弱的那个人”，并破天荒地走进健身房开始定期锻炼。 起初，运动只是为了恢复体能，但她很快发现去秘鲁漂流时的愉悦情绪被完整延续到了日常生活中，甚至连实验室的同事都明显感觉到她去健身房后整个人心情大好。更为震撼的转折发生在她坐回办公室撰写科研基金申请（Grant Writing）的某一天。撰写基金历来是极其痛苦、竞争极其惨烈的差事，申请者需要与包括诺贝尔奖得主在内的顶尖学者争夺同一笔经费。然而那天写完后，脑海中突然划过一个她五年来从未有过的念头：“天哪，今天写得居然这么顺畅！” 她意识到自己的写作状态与思维敏捷度在过去一段时间里悄然提升。经过仔细排查，她发现生活中唯一的变量就是那次秘鲁之行后养成的规律运动习惯。作为一名神经科学家，她立刻翻阅了当时（约十至十五年前）的科学文献，惊喜地发现前沿文献已经证实：规律的体育锻炼能够直接改善情绪状态、显著提高海马体的记忆功能，并全方位增强前额叶皮层的认知调控能力。这一亲身体验彻底改变了她的科研轨迹，驱使她全身心投入到运动神经科学的开创性研究之中。 ### [10:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=623s) 父亲的认知急剧衰退与研究重心的彻底转向 就在 Wendy 博士察觉到运动让自己的写作状态、专注力和记忆力显著改善的同时，家庭中却突然发生了一场变故。某天，她接到了母亲打来的电话，母亲焦急地告诉她，父亲感觉不太舒服，并且在开车从一家常去的咖啡店回家的路上迷路了——那是他过去整整二十年里，每天下午都会雷打不动开车前往的路线。 作为一名专门研究海马体（Hippocampus）的神经科学家，Wendy 博士立刻意识到问题的严重性。海马体不仅是大脑形成新记忆的核心中枢，对空间导航和空间记忆（Spatial Memory）更是至关重要。一个在熟悉了二十年的日常路线上彻底迷失的老人，传递出的是阿尔茨海默病或失智症极为典型的危险信号。家人迅速带父亲去看了神经科医生，确诊的结果证实了她的担忧：父亲患上了阿尔茨海默型失智症（Alzheimer's dementia）。残酷的反差在同一个家庭中上演——正当 Wendy 博士因规律运动感受到大脑记忆与专注力节节攀升之时，父亲的认知能力却出现了极其迅猛、令人心碎的断崖式下滑。不仅记忆力严重受损、无法集中注意力，父亲还因为清晰地意识到自己记忆的残缺而陷入极度的抑郁。 亲身经历自身状态的提升与父亲病情的骤变，让 Wendy 博士下定决心重新规划自己的科研生涯。她每天早晨醒来都在思考：体育活动究竟具备怎样强大的神经保护力量？它能否帮助学生更高效地学习、更好地应对考试？它能否成为抵御衰老、延缓认知退化的利器？这一系列顿悟促使她彻底转变了实验室的研究方向，从纯粹的传统记忆机制探索，全面转向深入研究“体育运动对大脑结构与功能的积极重塑”。 --- ### [12:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=757s) 颠覆常识的脑可塑性：从“老鼠乐园”到运动轮的启示 主持人提到，很多人过去都误以为大脑在成年后就像固定不变的机械结构，直到近些年才逐渐了解到大脑具有类似肌肉一般的“可塑性”（Brain Plasticity），其形态和神经连接会因我们所做的事情和环境输入而改变。针对这方面的实证科学依据，Wendy 博士深情地回忆起了自己在加州大学伯克利分校（UC Berkeley）读大学一年级的第一天。 那时，年轻的 Wendy 走进了一间神经解剖学教室，讲台上正是现代神经科学史上提出“脑可塑性”概念的先驱——玛丽安·戴蒙德教授（Dr. Marian Diamond），她也是伯克利历史上首位获得神经解剖学博士学位的女性。在 20 世纪 60 年代末，整个科学界的正统教条都坚信：成年期哺乳动物的大脑结构是绝对固化的，不可能再发生解剖学上的改变。戴蒙德教授打破了这一偏见，设计了一个极富代表性的对比实验： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 玛丽安·戴蒙德的大脑可塑性对照实验 accDescr: 对比丰富刺激环境与贫乏笼养环境对成年大鼠大脑皮层厚度影响的实验流程 subgraph EXP["实验分组对比"] A["成年大鼠随机分组"] --> B["丰富刺激环境<br/>（老鼠版迪士尼乐园）<br/>• 充足玩伴与社交<br/>• 频繁更换的丰富玩具<br/>• 广阔探索与攀爬空间"] A --> C["贫困受限环境<br/>（鞋盒式极简笼舍）<br/>• 仅一只同伴<br/>• 充足无限量水与食物<br/>• 毫无玩具与外界刺激"] end subgraph RES["脑解剖分析与机制发现"] B --> D["大脑皮层结构性增厚<br/>• 视觉皮层增厚<br/>• 运动与躯体感觉区增厚<br/>• 突触连接密度显著提升"] C --> E["大脑皮层无结构增长<br/>突触连接维持基础水平"] end D --> F["后续关键突破：<br/>仅需在笼中配置跑步轮（运动），<br/>即可复现几乎全部的脑重塑效果"] ``` 戴蒙德教授解剖发现，生活在“老鼠迪士尼乐园”的大鼠，其大脑外层的大脑皮层（Cortex）厚度显著增加，这代表着该区域长出了更多密集的突触连接（Synaptic Connections）。尤其是在视觉皮层、运动皮层和躯体感觉（触摸）皮层，结构性增长最为明显。更令人震撼的后续研究表明，促成这种大脑重塑的最核心驱动力甚至不是那些复杂的玩具，而是只要给大鼠笼子里装上一个简单的“滚轮”（Running Wheel），让它们奔跑运动，就能复现绝大部分皮层增厚和神经突触激增的效应。 - **突触生长机制**：外界丰富的感知和物理活动能直接促进皮层特定脑区的神经连接增殖，颠覆了“成年大脑一成不变”的假说。 - **运动的关键替代作用**：后续动物试验证实，单纯的规律体育活动（如踩轮跑动）就是驱动大脑神经解剖学发生可塑性重构的最强刺激源之一。 --- ### [16:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=961s) 伦敦出租车司机的海马体：高强度学习对脑结构的雕刻 随后主持人提起一个流传甚广的经典轶事：伦敦出租车司机的大脑是否真的会变大？Wendy 博士明确确认这绝非都市传说，而是一项严谨而经典的真实神经科学研究，由伦敦大学学院（UCL）的埃莉诺·马奎尔（Eleanor Maguire）教授主持完成，揭示了“人类大脑在后天高强度学习训练下发生物理重塑”的铁证。 伦敦标志性的黑色出租车司机必须通过极其严苛的考核——“伦敦路线知识测试”（The Knowledge）。考生必须将伦敦数万条街道、每一个地标建筑以及所有合法的最短行车路径在脑中绘制成一张完整的全景地图，通常需要潜心背诵、实地骑摩托车勘察整整四年之久，且中途淘汰率高达 50%。 - **测试前基线一致**：马奎尔教授在学员长达 4 年的备考初期，运用结构性磁共振成像（MRI）扫描了所有学员的大脑，并做了详尽的行为记忆测试，所有候选人初始的海马体体积和空间记忆水平毫无统计学差异。 - **最终测试与分流结果**：四年后，一半的学员成功通过考核成为正式司机，而另一半不幸失败退学。 - **后海马体的显著膨胀**：再次扫描发现，顺利通关的司机的海马体后部（Posterior Hippocampus——主要负责空间信息编码与导航的区域）体积相比未通过者发生了肉眼可见的物理性显著增大。 - **认知功能伴随跃升**：成功司机的空间和路线记忆能力全面碾压未通过测试的对照组，直接确立了“高强度持续认知训练能物理重塑特定大脑结构与功能”的里程碑事实。 --- ### [18:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1123s) 30岁开始关注脑健康有用吗？预防失智与神经递质激荡 当主持人提出一个直击人心的切身问题：“我现在 31 岁了，如果我现在开始认真对待大脑健康，未来真的能看到实质性的改变吗？在科学文献中有没有证据证明，在 30 岁或 31 岁这个年纪开始重视大脑，会深刻改变我未来的生命质量？” Wendy 博士给出了一个坚定而明确的回答：“绝对会（Absolutely yes）。”她首先列举了一项针对 65 岁及以上老年群体的硬核临床研究： - **老年期干预的惊人回报**：研究追踪了 65 岁以上老人当下的活动水平，结果显示，即便到了这个年龄段，只要**每周进行 3 次或以上的规律散步**，未来 5 年内患上失智症的风险就能**直接下降 30%**。 - **终身积累的“脑储备”（Brain Reserve）**：博士指出，这说明改善大脑“永远不会太晚”。但更重要的是，对于 31 岁的中青年群体而言，更长维度的流行病学关联研究表明：人生中保持规律体育锻炼的跨度越长，推迟失智症发病时间的能力就越强。持续一生的运动习惯会让大脑变得“更强健、更饱满、更具缓冲弹性”（Bigger, fatter and fluffier）。 - **即刻释放的神经递质风暴**：更为微观的机制在于，身体的每一次活动都在给大脑洗一个富含益处的“神经化学浴”（Neurochemical Bath）。每次活动，多巴胺（Dopamine）、血清素（Serotonin）、去甲肾上腺素（Noradrenaline）以及内啡肽（Endorphins）都会瞬间充盈大脑，不仅即时驱散阴霾、改善情绪与专注度，更在无形中为数十年后的大脑健康储备抵御退行性病变的核心资产。 ### [21:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1267s) 神经化学“泡泡浴”：运动如何锻造蓬松的海马体与前额叶 每次身体动起来时，大脑中都会迎来一场神经生长因子的洗礼——温迪·铃木（Dr. Wendy Suzuki）将其生动地形容为给大脑泡了一场“神经化学物质的泡泡浴”（a bubble bath of neurochemicals）。这些生长因子直接注入海马体，促进崭新脑细胞的萌发。海马体是整个人脑中仅有的两个能够终生诞生全新神经元的区域之一，这与仅仅增强已有细胞间连接的“突触”（synapses）截然不同。 这一生理机制至关重要，因为阿尔茨海默病在发起攻击时，首当其冲的正是海马体。尽管体育锻炼无法在源头上彻底消除神经退行性疾病的发生机制，但它能为你构建一个“巨大且蓬松的海马体”（a huge, fluffy hippocampus）。储备的脑细胞越多、神经元网络越厚实，病魔就需要消耗更多年限才能破坏掉足够多的脑组织，进而大大延缓阿尔茨海默病标志性的记忆衰退与失智症状的显现。与此同时，前额叶皮层也会在运动中获益：虽然它无法像海马体那样长出新神经元，但它能长出密集的全新突触。衰老和退行性病变不仅会损害细胞，还会剥夺突触，而运动恰恰在为这两大关键脑区注入强大的抗病储备。 --- ### [22:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1348s) 阿尔茨海默病的迷思与最简单的解药：从步行开始 当被问及“我们现在是否弄清了阿尔茨海默病和痴呆症的成因”时，铃木教授的回答斩截而坦诚：“没有，我们依然不知道，而且目前市面上缺乏行之有效的良药。”面对这一残酷现实，生活方式的选择就成了最核心的防线。在铃木教授看来，抵御大脑衰老与神经退行性病变的第一利器极其朴素，那就是“迈开双腿去走路”。 许多人以为保护大脑必须变成马拉松跑者，但步行之所以无与伦比，是因为它几乎零门槛，任何人都不需要购置昂贵的健身装备就能立刻行动。正如研究所证实的，哪怕仅仅是保持规律散步，65 岁人群罹患阿尔茨海默病的概率就能显著降低 30%。 针对久坐不动是否会导致决策能力受损的疑问，铃木教授用“神经可塑性”（brain plasticity）给出了肯定答复：缺乏运动确实可能让前额叶皮层的功能处于次优状态。更具体地说，长期运动最直接滋养的前额叶功能是“注意力的转移与聚焦”（shifting and focusing attention）——比如在专心倾听对话的同时，还能敏锐兼顾周边导播工作人员的技术指令，这种高效调动和分配认知资源的能力，正是规律身体活动赋予大脑的馈赠。 - **极低门槛的神经防护**：无需特殊器械或高强度训练，日常步行即可对神经系统产生实质性保护。 - **阿尔茨海默病发病率下降**：针对 65 岁老人的长期跟踪表明，规律步行可将患病概率拉低 30%。 - **注意力核心受惠**：运动改善前额叶皮层并非玄学，最敏感的功能指标是专注力与注意力的敏捷切换。 --- ### [24:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1467s) 迷路少年与故事大师：为什么每个人的记忆各不相同？ 在日常生活中，许多人都饱受“我的记忆力是不是很糟糕”的自我怀疑。主持人史蒂文（Steven Bartlett）分享了一段亲身经历：他 21 岁时与好友去泰国旅行，两人骑着轻便摩托在陌生地形里穿梭一小时，朋友无需导航或谷歌地图就能轻而易举原路返回，而他自己走出街角三分钟就会彻底迷路；后来两人合伙创业七八年，朋友能丝毫不差地记住每个客户与伙伴的名字，而他总是只能尴尬地转头向朋友求助。史蒂文一直困惑，为什么别人的记忆力如此惊人，自己的记忆却这般笨拙简陋？ 铃木教授宽慰道，几乎每个人都会觉得自己某些方面的记忆力不尽人意，但这并不代表整体认知水平落后。记忆就像个性或幽默感一样，因人而异，由先天基因（nature）与后天环境（nurture）共同塑造。例如，尽管史蒂文缺乏空间导航和人名检索的敏感度，但他作为顶尖访谈主持人和创业者，在对“故事情节的推进、叙事架构与情感走向”的记忆上必定极其出色，这甚至可能是那位认路高手无法比拟的。人的大脑布线各有侧重，各维度的记忆能力自然千差万别。 --- ### [26:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1595s) 大脑中的记忆版图：陈述性、运动与工作记忆 记忆在大脑中并不是铁板一块，而是由完全不同的神经回路分工管理的精细系统。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 大脑记忆类型与对应脑区 accDescr: 展示三种主要记忆形式及其依托的脑解剖结构与功能特点 subgraph MemoryTypes["大脑的三大记忆系统"] direction TB subgraph HippocampusBlock["海马体 (Hippocampus)"] A["陈述性记忆 / 认知记忆\n(Declarative / Cognitive Memory)"] A1["事实、事件、人名、经历\n能用语言清晰表述"] end subgraph StriatumBlock["纹状体及运动结构 (Striatum)"] B["运动记忆\n(Motor Memory)"] B1["网球反手、匹克球、骑车\n无法用言语拆解，刻入肌肉反射"] end subgraph PrefrontalBlock["前额叶皮层 (Prefrontal Cortex)"] C["工作记忆\n(Working Memory)"] C1["大脑临时草稿纸 (Scratchpad)\n暂存电话号码、衔接当下对话"] end end A --- A1 B --- B1 C --- C1 ``` 1. **陈述性记忆（Declarative Memory / Cognitive Memory）**：主要由海马体负责。用于记录生活事件与事实知识，比如谁是谁的伴侣、曾经去过的地方。这是能够被意识提取并用语言清晰“陈述”的记忆。 2. **运动记忆（Motor Memory）**：完全脱离海马体，依赖纹状体（striatum）等运动相关中枢。例如网球反手发球或匹克球击球步法，你很难在挥拍瞬间用语言向他人一步步陈述动作机理，身体却早已精准掌握。 3. **工作记忆（Working Memory）**：依托前额叶皮层，宛如大脑的临时“草稿纸”（scratchpad memory）。过去人们用来默记一串 7 位数的电话号码，或在访谈中牢记彼此刚刚抛出的论点以便无缝衔接下一个话题，依靠的都是工作记忆。 --- ### [27:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1655s) 让记忆深深刻入脑海的四大法则：从记忆宫殿到情感共鸣 作为内容创作者和营销人，史蒂文敏锐地察觉到“注意力”与“记忆”之间高度重合的神经机制。在探究海马体运作规律近 30 年后，铃木教授总结出让信息在脑海中持久扎根的四大终极法则： 第一法则是最为直观的**重复（Repetition）**。高频次的接触能不断强化神经回路的放电通路。 第二法则是**联想（Association）**。海马体本质上就是一个建立连接的器官，它负责把两件原本独立的事物编织在一起，例如把新面孔与姓名挂钩，或把某位丈夫与其妻子联系起来。人类沿用数千年的“记忆宫殿”（Memory Palace）正是这一机制的巅峰应用：受试者在脑海中勾勒一个极其熟悉的场所（如童年老宅，每一处门廊和拐角都烂熟于胸），然后想象漫步其中，把需要死记硬背的清单物品逐一放置在特定角落。记忆大师们正是通过将陌生信息与极其稳固的旧空间强行联想，实现了近乎魔术的记忆容量。 第三法则是**新奇性（Novelty）**。人类的大脑注意力网络时刻对“新奇”保持警惕，这是进化赋予的生存本能——熟悉的事物已被验证是安全的，因而会自动沦为背景音；而未知的变量往往潜藏危险。史蒂文感叹道，这也正是为什么“老套陈腐的陈词滥调（cliché）在营销中必然失败”。铃木教授在大学课堂上也深度践行这一法则：想要学生牢牢记住难点，就必须在传授过程中引入出其不意的惊奇元素，瞬间激活他们的注意力开关。 第四法则也是最为强大、直击本能的一环——**情感共鸣（Emotional Resonance）**。无论悲伤还是狂喜，凡是能够掀起内心惊涛骇浪的时刻，都会被情感的强烈震颤深深刻印在神经网络中，化为终生不灭的记忆烙印。 ### [30:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1854s) 杏仁核与海马体的共振：情绪如何雕刻记忆 情绪饱满的记忆往往刻骨铭心，其生理机制源于颞叶前部紧密相连的两个脑区：杏仁核（Amygdala）与海马体（Hippocampus）。Wendy Suzuki 博士形象地解释，“Amygdala”一词在希腊语中意为“杏仁”，它正是这样一个杏仁状的核团，坐落在管状海马体的正前方。当个体经历极度快乐或极度悲伤等情绪震荡时，杏仁核便会被强烈激活，向后方的海马体注入一股强烈的神经冲动与神经化学信号（"giving it a little jolt"）。正是这种来自杏仁核的情绪浸润，为记忆打上了深刻的烙印，使其历久弥新。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 情绪刺激与记忆巩固机制 accDescr: 展示情绪刺激经由杏仁核激活后，如何促进海马体形成长期记忆 subgraph TemporalLobe["大脑颞叶 (Temporal Lobe)"] A["强烈情绪刺激\n(极度悲伤/极度快乐)"] --> B["杏仁核 (Amygdala)\n(杏仁状结构/情绪中枢)"] B -- "情绪电冲动与神经化学信号" --> C["海马体 (Hippocampus)\n(管状结构/记忆形成)"] C --> D["刻骨铭心的长期记忆"] end ``` ### [31:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1888s) 帽子盒里的真实人类大脑：“贝蒂”的登场 现场迎来了全场最具震撼力的一刻：Wendy 博士带来了一颗真实的人类大脑标本。由于两人方才正在探讨“新奇刺激、意外惊喜与难以磨灭的记忆”，这颗静置在录音室角落的标本成为了最佳的现实教具。面对主持人 Steven Bartlett 带有怀疑与敬畏的询问，Wendy 澄清这是纽约大学神经科学中心（Center for Neural Science at NYU）通过合法程序购入的教学标本，已在系里保存了至少 26 年。 Wendy 博士为这颗大脑取名为“贝蒂”（Betty）。她解释道，从标本外观上并不能看出原主人的具体姓名，甚至无法辨别男女——尽管男女大脑存在结构上的差异，但那极其微妙，肉眼难以直接察觉。当 Wendy 戴上手套打开圆形的帽子盒（hat box）并取重大脑时，Steven 被眼前真实的景象彻底震慑。 - **解剖结构**：标本清晰展示了额叶（Frontal lobe）、枕叶（Occipital lobe，负责视觉处理）以及大脑纵裂两旁的大脑半球。 - **脑沟与脑回（Sulci and Gyri）**：扒开两侧大脑半球，可以看到皮层表面向内折叠得极深。Wendy 指出，大鼠的皮层完全光滑平坦，而人类、大象和海豚等高智慧生物拥有极其丰富的皮层褶皱，这成倍扩展了大面积的皮质表面积，赋予了人类惊人的计算与认知能力。 - **体积与外观**：Steven 惊讶于大脑比想象中更为紧凑。Wendy 解释，人群对其体积的感受往往是对半开；由于浸泡在防腐剂福尔马林（Formaldehyde）中超过 26 年，其颜色比颅内活体状态明显更暗淡。 ### [34:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2080s) 掌中托起的整个人生与“老豆腐”质感 Steven 戴上手套，小心翼翼地从 Wendy 手中接过这颗沉甸甸且带着湿润防腐液的器官。当他将这颗大脑托在右手掌心时，产生了一种难以言喻的存在主义震撼。Wendy 指出他手指触摸的后下方正是小脑（Cerebellum），它主导精细运动协调，一旦受损便无法平稳行走；紧邻其下的则是脊髓（Spinal cord）的起点。 这一刻引发了两人极具哲思的感悟：眼前的这团组织，承载了原主人完整的一生。从看到、闻到、听到、思考过的一切，到他们的童年学校、人际关系、创伤、焦虑乃至重度抑郁，甚至是临终前的最后时光，全部被凝聚在掌心这块仅如“一块老豆腐”（a ball of tofu）大小的组织之中。Wendy 补充道，在现实生理状态下，活体大脑的质地触感确实与一块老豆腐（firm tofu）无异；她平时为学生做示教时，往往会随身携带一块真正的老豆腐来辅助演示。Wendy 回忆起大学时初次目睹人脑解剖标本的瞬间，正是那股极致的新奇与震撼彻底改变了她的人生轨迹，促使她立志成为神经科学家。 ### [37:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2259s) 重塑大脑的最佳运动方式与运动剂量 对话随后转向核心命题：如何通过运动将颅内这块“老豆腐”锻造成健康、健壮的大脑。针对运动的分类，Wendy 博士明确指出，所有的科学证据均指向**有氧运动（Aerobic exercise）**。其核心衡量标准非常直接——只要该项运动能显著拉高心率（Get your heart rate up），无论是健步走（Power walking）、英式足球（Soccer）还是室内动感单车，都能最大程度促进生长因子（如 BDNF）的释放，滋养海马体并促进新生神经元萌发。 关于“究竟需要多少运动量”的问题，Wendy 的实验室设计并执行了两项严谨的对照试验： 1. **针对低体能人群（Low-fit people）的研究**： - **受试对象**：此前极度缺乏运动（过去三周内运动时间不足 30 分钟）的人群。 - **干预方案**：联合动感单车房（Spin class），要求受试者每周进行 2 至 3 次、每次 45 分钟的中高强度有氧运动。 - **研究结论**：受试者在海马体主导的记忆功能、前额叶皮层主导的注意力聚焦与快速切换能力上均取得了显著提升，同时整体心境（Mood）显著改善。这为缺乏运动基础的普通人提供了明确的起始门槛。 2. **针对常态运动人群的研究**： - **受试对象与方案**：针对原本每周就保持 2 次动感单车锻炼的人群，提供免费课程额度，鼓励其将训练频率阶梯式增加，最高可达每周 7 次，并设立维持原频次（每周 2 次）的对照组。 - **研究结论**：“每一滴汗水都有意义”（Every drop of sweat counted）。数据显示运动频率与认知获益呈现正相关——运动量越大，海马体功能、前额叶皮质活性以及情绪状态的正面改变越显著。 在现实生活中，理解这一神经生物学机制将从根本上重塑个体的行为心态。早起 30 分钟去快走、或是陪邻居遛狗，不再是一项令人厌烦的日程负担或道德绑架，而是一种对自己大脑最直接的滋养投资——让颅内那块小小的“老豆腐”变得更加饱满蓬松（"big fat fluffy brain"），运转得更加敏捷高效。 ### [41:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2516s) 运动对表达能力、专注力与即时反应的神经学助益 主持人谈到自己的播客工作高度依赖“大脑与嘴巴的顺畅连接”，但有时也会感到思维卡顿、词不达意，因此他一直在探寻表现好坏与当天行为之间的关联。他联想到励志演说家托尼·罗宾斯（Tony Robbins）每次登台演讲前都会在后台蹦床上跳跃热身，便询问温迪·铃木（Wendy Suzuki）教授：在进行重要演讲或录音前，在休息室做一次快速运动是否真有神经科学依据？ 温迪·铃木给出了极其坚决的肯定回答，并指出身体只要活动起来，大脑就会产生三大立竿见影的即时神经生物学效益： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 单次运动对大脑功能的即时神经机制影响 accDescr: 运动后通过神经递质释放与皮层激活，直接提升情绪、专注力和反应速度三大维度。 A["单次身体运动"] --> B["神经化学物质释放<br/>(多巴胺、血清素、去甲肾上腺素)"] A --> C["前额叶皮层激活<br/>(利用多巴胺调节机制)"] A --> D["运动皮层高频调用"] B --> E["即刻情绪提振 (Mood Boost)"] C --> F["专注力与注意力聚焦 (Focus & Attention)"] D --> G["反应时间显著缩短 (Faster Reaction Time)"] ``` - **即时情绪提升**：运动会立刻促使多巴胺（Dopamine）、血清素（Serotonin）和去甲肾上腺素（Norepinephrine）的释放，快速改善心境。 - **强化专注与注意力**：虽然单次锻炼无法立刻在前额叶皮层（Prefrontal Cortex）中生成新的突触结构，但前额叶皮层极度依赖多巴胺进行神经信号传导。运动注入的多巴胺能瞬间提高注意力和思维组织效率，这对于公开发言至关重要。 - **缩短反应时间**：运动直接激活并调动运动皮层（Motor Cortex）。研究表明，哪怕仅仅是一次短暂运动，人体的感知与反应耗时都会比久坐不动时显著缩短。 --- ### [43:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2617s) 咖啡因刺激、个体自我实验与冷热交替淋浴 针对主持人关于咖啡因对大脑究竟是有益还是有害的困惑，温迪·铃木解释道，咖啡因本质上是一种中枢神经兴奋剂，而不同个体的神经系统对它的代谢和敏感程度差异极大。一旦咖啡因摄入过量导致神经系统“过度兴奋（Overstimulation）”，反而会破坏语言组织能力与思维清晰度。因此，她在著作《健康大脑，快乐生活》（*Healthy Brain, Happy Life*）中极力推崇“自我实验（Self-experimentation）”的方法：每个人都应自主微调并测定（Titrate）最适合自己录音或公开演讲的咖啡因剂量。 此外，铃木教授分享了自己用来替代或辅助咖啡因的早晨提神习惯——冷热交替淋浴（Hot-cold contrast showers）。在热水淋浴后突然切换至冷水，能刺激体内自然分泌大量肾上腺素（Adrenaline）。尽管最初尝试时感到刺痛难耐，但适应后会体会到强烈的身心唤醒与愉悦感；她甚至提到，有时自己洗完澡忘了冲冷水，还会特意重新走回喷头下补冲一次冷水，以获取清醒充沛的神经能量。 --- ### [45:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2709s) 睡眠剥夺对神经元的破坏：记忆巩固与代谢废物清除机制 谈到现代人摧毁大脑健康的核心不良习惯，铃木教授将“久坐”和“缺乏睡眠”列为首要元凶。她常在课堂上告诫学生：在极端剥夺睡眠的酷刑下，受害者最终会直接死亡，然而现实中许多人却为了刷剧娱乐毫无顾忌地熬夜，将原本需要的8小时睡眠压缩至5小时。 从脑神经机制来看，深度睡眠扮演着两项不可替代的核心生理功能： - **海马体记忆巩固（Consolidation）**：在规律健康的睡眠周期中，海马体会重新激活并整合白天形成的信息碎片，将其固化为长期记忆。剥夺睡眠会直接中断该神经巩固过程。 - **清除神经代谢“垃圾”**：大脑细胞在日常生化活动中会不断产生代谢产物。进入睡眠状态后，脑脊液（Cerebrospinal Fluid）会在脑实质中高效循环冲刷，将有害代谢废物彻底排出。睡眠不足会导致这些代谢毒素在大脑内不断滞留积聚，造成人们在主观感受上极其明显的“大脑黏稠糊滞感（Gunky brain）”。 --- ### [46:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2818s) 地中海饮食与社交联系对脑健康及长寿的深远影响 在营养摄入方面，铃木教授明确表示，目前医学证据最确凿、最推荐的护脑饮食模式是地中海饮食（Mediterranean diet）。其精髓在于摄入富含抗氧化剂的多样化、色彩鲜艳的原态食物，坚决剔除深加工食品（Ultra-processed foods）。 针对主持人提出的“缺乏朋友和长期孤独是否会导致大脑萎缩并诱发认知障碍症”的疑问，铃木教授给予了肯定的科学佐证： - **人类作为社交动物的生理需求**：有力的科研证据表明，个体的社会连接数量与寿命之间存在强相关性。这种社交并不局限于长达数十年之久的亲密知己，哪怕只是每天在星巴克买咖啡时真诚地与咖啡师打个招呼、互相问候，这种轻量级的日常社交互动同样能显著增进寿命与脑健康。 - **哈佛成人发展研究的佐证**：她的好友兼同事罗伯特·瓦丁格（Robert Waldinger）主持了始于20世纪20年代的哈佛幸福感长期追踪研究，历经数十年跨度，最终得出的核心结论是：“带给人类真正幸福感的是强大的社会连接（Strength of your social connections）”。 - **慢性孤独的神经破坏性**：相反，孤立与孤独感会在体内引发长期的慢性压力应激反应，持续损伤神经元连接，长此以往不仅削弱大脑机能，还会直接导致特定脑区体积萎缩。 --- ### [49:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2955s) 神经科学家的晨间身心例行程序与正念冥想机制 铃木教授详细拆解了自己每天早晨为维持最优大脑状态而践行的固定作息例程： | 时间/环节 | 具体活动与流程 | 神经机制与身心益处 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **第一阶段** | 约45分钟的“茶道冥想”（Tea meditation） | 专注冲泡、出汤、品饮的仪轨与感官循环，促使思维进入心流（Flow），激活前额叶专注力 | | **第二阶段** | 约30分钟的体育锻炼 | 组合进行有氧运动（Cardio）、抗阻力量（Strength）、瑜伽或身体活动度（Mobility）训练 | | **第三阶段** | 沐浴与冷热交替冲水 | 承受冷水刺激，触发自体肾上腺素释放，达到全天能量充沛的清醒状态 | | **第四阶段** | 营养早餐与正式开展工作 | 补充能量，带着高多巴胺与敏锐注意力投入学术和科研工作 | 在谈及冥想时，铃木提到自己早年经历过反复中断的“溜溜球式冥想（Yo-yo meditating）”，直到一位僧侣邀请她在静谧优美的户外进行茶道冥想，那种沉浸于冲水、闻香、饮茶的物理仪式才真正让她彻底进入状态。针对主持人的追问，她强调大量神经影像学研究证明，长期正念冥想具有显著的大脑可塑性（Brain plasticity）效应，能明显加厚并丰富前额叶皮层的神经回路，不仅强化专注力，还能通过慈悲冥想（Loving-kindness meditation）全面提升情绪调节能力。 --- ### [50:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3031s) 摧毁大脑的“全套清单”与对社交媒体的尖锐质疑 为了彻底厘清危害脑健康的因素，主持人与铃木教授以反面推导的方式，系统总结了能够“摧毁大脑”的整套极端恶习： - **严重剥夺睡眠**：阻断代谢垃圾排出与记忆巩固。 - **长期极度久坐**：剥夺神经递质刺激与神经新生条件。 - **断绝社交与陷入孤立**：诱发慢性皮质醇压力损伤。 - **吸烟与过量酗酒**：吸烟直接损伤脑血管；而酒精则会引发明确的器质性脑病变。即使是适度饮酒，也会严重打碎深度睡眠架构，使睡眠浮于表面，彻底丧失神经修复效能。 - **大量摄入高度加工食品**与**拒绝接纳新认知、丧失生活的新鲜感（Novelty）**。 - **缺乏当下觉知与正念能力**。 当主持人辩解“如果我每天在社交媒体上刷屏7个小时，频繁接触各种海量资讯，这难道不算是一种接纳新事物、有益大脑的学习方式吗”时，对话切入了对数字屏幕沉迷本质的深刻探讨。 ### [52:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3153s) 社交媒体对大脑的真实影响与生理损伤 当主持人询问社交媒体是否对大脑有益、以及它是否剥夺了与真人互动的机会时，温迪·铃木博士（Dr. Wendy Suzuki）给出了极其明确的肯定的回答。人类的大脑完全能分辨出线上虚拟互动与面对面真实社交的区别。海量的科学证据表明，社交媒体使用率的激增——尤其是青少年群体——与抑郁和焦虑水平的剧烈攀升直接相关，这种负面影响在年轻女孩身上尤为显著。当孩子们开始普遍拥有智能手机，甚至每天在社交媒体上耗费长达7个小时时，焦虑和抑郁的爆发便随之而来。尽管成年人（包括铃木博士和主持人）常将社交媒体作为商业和工作工具，但这绝不等同于心智尚未成熟的13岁青少年的使用场景。面对面的真实人际交往，其神经生物学效应是任何虚拟屏幕都无法比拟或替代的。 关于社交媒体造成的伤害，许多人习惯从心理学角度去归因，比如“社会比较”（总是觉得自己不如别人好看、过得好）以及平台充斥的毒性言论。但主持人更深入地追问其背后的“生理与神经化学损伤”究竟是什么。铃木博士一针见血地指出：心理伤害与生理损伤本质上密不可分。社交媒体诱发的心理压力会直接触发机体释放压力激素（如皮质醇）；当压力激素持续处于过高水平、日夜冲刷大脑时，首先会侵蚀并破坏神经元之间的突触连接，进而逐步杀死脑细胞。这种由心理压力转化为神经器质性损害的链式反应，正是社交媒体潜在危害的核心所在。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 社交媒体对大脑的损伤机制 accDescr: 社交媒体引发心理压力与神经化学损伤的连锁流程图 subgraph Psychological ["心理与行为刺激"] A["高频使用社交媒体<br/>（每日多达7小时）"] --> B["负面比较与有毒信息"] B --> C["慢性心理压力与焦虑"] end subgraph Physiological ["生理与神经损伤"] C --> D["持续释放高浓度压力激素<br/>（皮质醇等）"] D --> E["破坏神经突触连接"] E --> F["脑细胞损伤与凋亡"] end Psychological --> Physiological ``` - 关键数据与现象：青少年（特别是年轻女孩）在每天使用社交媒体长达7小时后，抑郁和焦虑发病率出现断崖式攀升。 - 神经病理机制：长期的慢性心理压力会使压力激素在脑内蓄积，先损伤神经元连接，最终导致神经细胞坏死。 --- ### [54:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3281s) “老虎机”式的多巴胺成瘾与牺牲的健康基石 社交媒体的界面交互设计本质上就是一台数字化的“老虎机”——用户只要手指往下一拉刷新信息流，就会“叮”的一声弹出一张精美图片、一条新评论或一个通知，这种不确定性的即时奖励带来了持续不断的“多巴胺冲击”（dopamine hit）。当主持人提问整天频繁获取多巴胺是否有危害时，铃木博士直言：“我绝对不想对赌博成瘾，而赌博具有极强的成瘾性。”这种数字成瘾最致命的地方，在于它蚕食并挤占了人类大脑保持健康所不可或缺的一切基石。 当一个人深陷手机与社交媒体的即时刺激中时，被牺牲掉的是充足的高质量睡眠、深度的真实社交纽带以及日常体育锻炼。对于正在发育的孩子来说，他们不再像过去那样组队去户外运动、打球，或者通过传统但极其有效的方式与同龄人展开现实互动。这种童年生活方式的剥夺，对大脑的可塑性与健康发育造成了不可逆转的深远伤害。 --- ### [55:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3346s) 手机依赖症、电击实验与两周“数字排毒”挑战 主持人坦白自己似乎患有严重的手机成瘾，并请铃木博士“狠狠吓吓自己”，好让自己彻底下定决心戒除手机瘾。他承认自己虽然每天坚持健身，但手机几乎剥夺了他所有的真实连接。铃木博士警告称，沉迷于屏幕会严重限制大脑可塑性（brain plasticity）和神经生长潜能，更会剥夺生活中深层次的快乐——尽管在社交媒体上收获成百上千的点赞确实能带来短暂的快感，但那种肤浅的满足感与面对面人际交流带来的深层喜悦有着本质差别。为了打破这种恶性循环，铃木博士向他发起挑战：“咬紧牙关，去尝试一次为期两周的手机排毒（2-week phone detox）。” 面对两周不碰手机的提议，主持人坦言自己“完全无法想象”，甚至当手机电量耗尽关机时，他就会陷入极度焦虑，死死盯着黑屏等待开机，内心抓狂地想：“我接下来该干什么？”他提到了心理学界著名的实验研究：研究人员让受试者在“独自安静地面对自己的思绪坐着”与“给自己施加痛苦的电击”之间进行选择，结果惊人比例的人宁愿忍受电击，也不愿独自坐着胡思乱想，只因为他们无法忍受缺乏任何外部刺激的状态。主持人无奈地感叹，现代人为了逃避无聊和真实体验，正在付出牺牲生活、喜悦与专注力的沉重代价。 - 经典心理学实验印证：许多人宁愿选择承受电击刺激，也无法忍受在没有任何干扰的房间里与自己的思绪独处数分钟。 - 铃木博士的处方建议：尝试咬紧牙关进行整整两周的手机数字排毒（phone detox），以重启大脑对现实快乐的感知力。 --- ### [58:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3497s) 独处、冥想与海马体激发想象力的机制 针对主持人提到的“不敢与自身思绪独处”，铃木博士指出了极其深刻的神经哲学洞见：不愿面对自己的内心，恰恰揭示了为什么正念冥想如此重要又如此困难。冥想的核心就是学着“与自己的思绪独处”，并将注意力平稳地聚焦在某种内生有机的事物上，比如呼吸，或是“慈悲观”（loving kindness）的心念。铃木博士承认自己也经常觉得冥想很难，尤其是在手机和社交媒体使用频繁的时期，内心的浮躁感会显著加剧。 然而，神经科学研究表明，唯有在屏蔽外界碎片化噪音、完全与自己的思想独处时，人类的大脑才能迸发出最强大的创造力与想象力。这种高级认知过程极度依赖海马体（hippocampus）： > “海马体以对你或对我来说独一无二的崭新且有趣的方式，将记忆中所有的元素重新拼接组合起来。” 如果大脑整天都在被社交媒体单向、机械且无休止地灌输碎片信息，这种依靠海马体编织记忆、孕育原创想法与想象力的神经机制就会受到抑制，无法正常运转。 --- ### [59:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3561s) 普遍蔓延的“日常焦虑”与现代社会的独特重压 谈话转向了铃木博士于2021年出版的著作《良好的焦虑》（Good Anxiety）。主持人询问她撰写此书的初衷。铃木博士回忆道，早在新冠疫情暴发前的2018至2019年间，作为大学教授的她便敏锐察觉到了异常——纽约大学的学生们在期末考试前表现出了前所未有的恐慌和极度焦虑，要求特殊照顾和延期的请求数量剧增，这是她过去教学几十年来从未见过的景象。随后她意识到，不仅是学生，包括她自己和身边的朋友们，也都深陷在更高的焦虑中。她曾自嘲“我只是个典型的纽约客，纽约客不都是天天神经紧绷吗？”，但数据和现实提醒她：大环境真的变了。 铃木博士澄清说，她和绝大多数学生经历的并非病理性的临床焦虑症（clinical anxiety），而是所谓的“日常焦虑”（everyday anxiety）。即便在疫情之前，全球气候变暖、冰川融化、海洋塑料污染、极端的政治分裂与地缘战争，就已经像阴云一样笼罩在年轻一代的心头。主持人提出疑问：现代人的焦虑感是否违背了人类进化常态？他开玩笑说祖先们好像经常“无所事事地闲坐着”。铃木博士回应指出，虽然祖先们历经过两次世界大战等极为严峻的生存挑战，但他们从未面对过像如今这样密集的全球性危机叙事、海啸般的即时信息冲击（从工作邮件到即时通讯工具WhatsApp无死角的催逼），以及现代青少年群体中居高不下的焦虑与自杀危机。现代生活正在以前所未有的密度和广度向人类大脑灌输焦虑源。 ### [01:02:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3733s) 社交媒体的恶性攀比与年轻一代焦虑症的激增 史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）与温迪·铃木博士（Dr. Wendy Suzuki）深入探讨了现代人焦虑情绪爆发的现状。温迪回忆，自己在 2018 年着手撰写《积极焦虑》（*Good Anxiety*）一书，并在 2021 年疫情最严峻的时期正式出版。统计数据显示，仅在疫情期间，全球的平均焦虑水平就激增了约 20%。而更为刺眼的是，年轻女孩因社交媒体引发的焦虑水平上升幅度甚至远超 20%，两者的增长趋势高度重合且愈演愈烈。 谈及年轻女性群体中焦虑乃至自杀倾向急剧上升的根本诱因，温迪指出，关键在于社交媒体极大地放大了“病态比较”。温迪以大学校园的现状为例：在她自己上大学的年代，学生在申请时根本不知道自己具体排在第几名；而今天的学生却暴露在极其残忍的数据透明度中——在高中班级里的精确位次、所选修的每一门单科排名、在申请的 5 所、10 所甚至 15 所高校候选池中的实时名次全都一览无余。史蒂文随之补充，现代青年看似拥有了更多“社交连接”，但这绝非真实的现实人际交往，取而代之的是数字指标、粉丝数量、点赞、私信与恶评构成的“巨大噪音”，极高的信息过载不断推高群体的精神焦虑。 - 全球总体焦虑水平在疫情期间跃升约 20%，而年轻女性因社交媒体导致的心理危机增幅更甚。 - 排名机制与透明数据的泛滥剥夺了学生的心理安全感，将竞争与比较推向极致。 ### [01:04:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3862s) 焦虑的生理机制：当原始威胁反应遇上现代社交网络 史蒂文询问，人在感到焦虑时胸口往往会有明显的窒息感，那么从生理学角度来看，焦虑究竟发生在大脑和身体的哪个位置？温迪解释道，焦虑是一种“全身性体验”，它与人类古老的压力应激系统紧密绑定。当遭遇可能诱发焦虑的情境（例如偶遇曾大吵一架的冤家），大脑会瞬间启动交感神经系统主导的“战斗或逃跑”（Fight or Flight）机制。 一旦该系统被点燃，心率急剧攀升，呼吸变得短促急促，瞳孔散大以便观察周围的一举一动；与此同时，机体为了保命，会主动将流经消化系统和生殖系统的血液抽调分流，全力供给四肢骨骼肌，为战斗或狂奔逃跑做好准备。这套机制在数百万年的漫长进化中极度高效，其目的是帮祖先从致命的狮子或猛虎口中生还。然而，现代人面临的生理悲剧在于：人类的压力威胁检测系统“并不怎么聪明”，它无法区分一头能取人性命的恶兽与一条攻击你心爱之物、刺伤自尊心的恶意私信（DM）。面对网络攻击，身体同样拉响最高级别的生理警报，从而引发排山倒海的焦虑与躯体反应。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 压力与焦虑应激反应回路 accDescr: 展示远古与现代不同触发源如何激活相同的交感神经系统，以及深呼吸与运动如何激活副交感神经恢复平静 subgraph Triggers ["刺激来源"] A["远古威胁：猛兽突袭"] B["现代威胁：恶意私信 / 排名压力"] end subgraph StressSystem ["交感神经系统：战斗或逃跑"] C["心率上升 / 呼吸加快"] D["瞳孔放大 / 视野聚焦"] E["血液撤离消化与生殖系统，涌向肌肉"] end subgraph ResetTools ["副交感神经系统：休息与消化"] F["10 分钟散步"] G["3 次意识性深度呼吸"] H["心率与呼吸放缓，血流重回内脏"] end A --> StressSystem B --> StressSystem F -.-> ResetTools G -.-> ResetTools ResetTools -->|制动与抑制| StressSystem ``` ### [01:06:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3982s) 调低焦虑的“音量”：10分钟散步与激活副交感神经的三次深呼吸 面对无处不在的焦虑刺激，温迪指出，解决之道并非彻底逃避社交网络，而是学会主动“调低焦虑的音量”。她介绍了两套立竿见影且人人可用的生理调节工具： 1. **温和运动**：运动能在短时间内直接削减焦虑与抑郁水平。这甚至不需要进行高强度的有氧训练，哪怕仅仅在户外进行 10 分钟的散步，就能显著下调大脑的压力状态。 2. **意识性深呼吸**：作为交感神经系统的对立平衡力量，人体内置了负责“休息与消化”（Rest and Digest）的副交感神经系统。它能减缓心率与呼吸节律，将血液送回消化器官。 温迪强调，呼吸冥想是人类历史上最古老的冥想形式，古代僧侣早在数千年前就参透了其玄机。这是因为**呼吸是人类唯一能够进行意识主观控制的自主神经入口**。我们无法单凭意念命令心脏“跳得慢一点”，但任何人都可以在当下立刻完成三次深长、缓慢的深呼吸；正是这三次呼吸动作，能像一把物理钥匙，瞬间撬动副交感神经系统接管机体，平息暴冲的应激风暴。 - 仅需 10 分钟步行即可发挥显著的精神解压效果，无需严苛的运动门槛。 - 三次有意识的深长呼吸是激活副交感神经系统、降低心率最直接的生理杠杆。 ### [01:08:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4098s) 重新审视悲伤与焦虑：负面情绪是指引价值观的指南针 话题转向悲伤与难过，史蒂文感慨，许多人巴不得把悲伤和焦虑彻底从生命中剔除，认为只要没有这些负面体验，自己就会成为世界上最快乐的人。但温迪提出了截然不同的观点：在《积极焦虑》中，她论证了焦虑和悲伤这些“刺手的情绪”（prickly emotions）实际上具备不可替代的进化价值。 焦虑本质上是机体的警报雷达，它提醒我们注意某些异常的人际冲突或潜在危机；更重要的是，焦虑具有极强的投射作用——**你的焦虑在聚焦什么，恰恰揭示了你在生命中最珍视什么**。温迪坦诚剖析自己就是一个典型的“讨好型人格”（People Pleaser），早年常因过度迎合他人而备受焦虑折磨；但当她转换视角后意识到，讨好倾向与随之而来的焦虑，实际上是在强烈提醒她：“我极其在乎真诚的人际连结，人与人之间的温暖互动对我而言无比重要。”认清这一点后，情绪便从心理内耗转化为一种认清自我价值的超能力。 > “当你知道自己的焦虑在聚焦哪些担忧与恐惧时，它其实正在向你揭示：在你的生命里，你究竟将什么视若至宝。” ### [01:10:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4221s) 中场插播：主持人的全天专注力秘密 在访谈间隙，史蒂文揭晓了摆在录播桌前、陪伴他完成长达 3 小时高强度对谈或一天三场专访的专属马克杯秘密。杯中盛装的是他在《龙穴之创业投资》（*Dragons' Den*）节目中投资的 PerfectTed 抹茶能量饮料。 史蒂文透露，这款产品如今已成长为英国增速最迅猛的抹茶能量饮品，而他选择在播客录制期间全程饮用，是因为它能带来持久而平稳的“全天能量”（all-day energy），完全避免了传统能量饮料带来的突发性能量崩溃（crash）与心悸抖动（jitters）。在面对舞台演讲、高管董事会或深度播客对话时，持久的专注力是不可或缺的竞争优势。 - 合作产品：PerfectTed 抹茶能量饮料（节目赞助商）。 - 购买渠道与权益：可在 Tesco、Waitrose 或线上购买，结账输入折扣码 `diary10` 享 10% 优惠。 ### [01:11:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4282s) 脑扫描下的人类爱情：热恋时点亮的奖赏回路 回到神经科学话题，史蒂文好奇地发问：“我们能否在大脑中‘看到’爱情？如果对热恋中的人进行脑部扫描，他们与伴侣互动时我们能捕捉到信号吗？” 温迪给出了极其肯定的回答。神经科学界不仅扫描过处于多年稳定深厚伴侣关系中的大脑，也详细扫描过那些正处于狂热“浪漫之爱”（romantic love）旋涡中的大脑。在陷入热恋的头几周内，个体表现出“怎么也看不够对方、时时刻刻都想黏在一起”的状态，在功能性核磁共振成像下，大脑中与多巴胺相关的奖赏中枢（reward areas）会被异常强烈地激活，展现出爱情在大脑皮层与皮层下结构留下的深刻印记。 ### [01:11:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4319s) 爱的神经回路与演变：从热恋到细水长流 大脑在坠入爱河时会发生剧烈的神经化学变化，不仅激活奖赏回路，还会点亮包括脑岛（insula，位于耳侧大脑皮层深处）在内的诸多社交互动区域。面对这种神经机制，主持人提出疑问：倘若长期缺乏恋爱与情感联结，遵循“用进废退”（use it or lose it）和“同步激活即同步连接”（neurons that fire together, wire together）的神经可塑性原则，负责爱的大脑区域是否会萎缩并让人丧失爱人的能力？Dr. Wendy Suzuki 指出，虽然目前尚未有严格对照的长期神经学实验直接证实萎缩现象，但在功能层面上，弃用相关脑区绝对无法增强其对应机能，因此她绝不建议任何人关闭爱的能力。 针对现实中有人难以寻觅浪漫爱情的困境，Dr. Wendy Suzuki 澄清道，人类的情感连接远不止于好莱坞或迪士尼式狭隘的罗曼蒂克。神经科学对比浪漫之爱与母爱、父爱时发现，长久维系的伴侣或婚姻关系在经历最初炽热的“蜜月期”后，大脑的激活模式会自然过渡为类似慈爱、亲情般的深层依恋。这种转变不仅不是大脑机能的衰退，反而是进化上的成熟胜果，印证了深厚的友谊和各类真挚联结同样能滋养负责爱的大脑。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 爱的脑区激活与阶段演变 accDescr: 展示从恋爱初期到长久依恋的大脑激活演化过程 subgraph Phase1 ["恋爱初期（蜜月期）"] A["高强度奖赏回路激活"] B["脑岛 (Insula) 强烈唤醒"] A --- B end subgraph Phase2 ["长期关系（成熟期）"] C["深层伴侣依恋"] D["类似母爱/父爱的神经连接模式"] C --- D end Phase1 -->|"时间演进与情感深化"| Phase2 ``` ### [01:14:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4461s) 至亲相继离世与不可思议的悲痛 当话题由爱转向其对立面——心碎、拒斥与丧失时，主持人引出了 Dr. Wendy Suzuki 人生中一段极其艰难的经历。她的父亲在饱受阿尔茨海默病折磨后因突发心脏病离世；而仅仅三个月后，她年仅50岁的弟弟也遭遇意外心脏病骤然猝死。她在《善用焦虑》（Good Anxiety）第四章中，用“无法想象、难以捉摸”（unfathomable）来形容这两场几乎同时降临的毁灭性打击。 作为一名深谙大脑运作机制与情绪生理学的神经科学家，她在面对这股剧痛时依然无法免除普通人的脆弱与煎熬。她描述那种丧亲之痛并非平铺直叙的沉闷，而是像汹涌莫测的海浪一般，“一波袭来，随后稍微退去片刻，让人稍有喘息，却又在最猝不及防的瞬间卷土重来”。当时她不得不暂停手中《善用焦虑》的写作工作，因为剧烈的悲恸让她根本无法动笔，更要命的是，她不得不面对一生中最避之不及的梦魇——在公众面前发表悼词并陷入无法抑制的痛哭。 ### [01:17:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4631s) 痛楚中的智慧：从悲伤的另一面挖掘“超能力” 在为弟弟主持葬礼的过程中，Dr. Wendy Suzuki 尝试通过运动来缓解精神的撕裂。健身教练在课上随口说出的一句话击中了她：“极度的痛苦孕育非凡的智慧”（"with great pain comes great wisdom"）。身处巨大痛楚中的她苦苦思索，这份智慧到底藏在何处？为了写好给弟弟的悼词，她终于领悟到一个颠扑不破的真理： > “我之所以承受着如此深不见底的悲痛，唯一的根源在于起初我对他们怀有的深爱。如果我不曾那样深切地爱过他们，就不会遭受如此沉重的痛苦。这漫无边际的悲伤，正是真挚爱意的明证。” 这一领悟不仅成为她在追悼会上宽慰自己与亲友的支柱，更彻底改写了她随后的学术与写作方向。她开始执迷于探究每一种恶劣情绪背后的正面意义——如果连绝望的丧亲之痛背面都沉淀着爱的印记，那么“焦虑”的另一面又蕴含着什么礼物？由此，她重新完成了《善用焦虑》，在书中系统性地梳理出如何将焦虑转化为专注、同理心等人生“超能力”，这一过程也成为了她疗愈自身创伤的心灵解药。 ### [01:19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4766s) 情绪的价值与拒绝“无痛药丸” 接连痛失至亲彻底重塑了 Dr. Wendy Suzuki 的人格特质。过去的她面对遭遇变故的朋友总是手足无措、因担心说错话而退避三舍；经历过这一遭后，她获得了更深沉的同理心与慈悲心，深刻领悟到每个人在漫长的一生中都终将走过这条伤痛的窄谷。当被问及“如果有一颗可以瞬间抹除悲伤的药丸，你当初或现在是否愿意服下”时，她毫不犹豫地给出了否定的回答。 她认为，尽管悲伤在生理上令人备受折磨，但她并未陷入完全失能的病理状态。真正的情绪健康不是去切除痛苦，因为焦虑、悲伤和愤怒对于人类具有不可替代的进化价值： - **反衬生命的欢愉**：没有低谷的至暗，生活只会沦为毫无生气的平庸；正是低谷的存在，才让人生巅峰的喜悦被格外放大。 - **深化人际同理心**：切身体会过无助的煎熬，才能在他人落难时给予真正有温度的接纳与理解。 - **珍惜当下的拥有**：痛失所爱的经验反向催化了对现有生活和美好时光更深刻的感激与珍视。 ### [01:21:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4916s) 神经科学与灵性的交界 在对话尾声，主持人将议题引向科学与形而上的哲学张力：一个整日剖析神经回路、突触连接与生化递质的脑科学家，心中是否还容得下“灵性”（spirituality）的存在？世人往往习惯于将二者割裂——极端的唯物还原论者把所有人类体验全盘归结为颅骨内那一团“豆腐脑”般的脑组织电化学反应；而灵性信仰者则坚信意识与能量游离于肉身之外。 当被问及自己是否属于有灵性信仰的人时，Dr. Wendy Suzuki 明确给出了肯定的回答。面对这一科学探索与主观体验之间的经典交汇点，她开始进一步阐述自己在这两极认知之间的独特坐标。 ### [01:22:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4960s) 从纯粹的科学理性走向精神与信仰 温迪·铃木（Wendy Suzuki）坦言，自己的认知随着岁月发生了深刻的转变。年轻时作为一名初出茅庐的神经科学家，她曾是个彻底的唯科学主义者，对任何宗教与灵性世界嗤之以鼻，坚定地认为“世间万物皆可用科学来解释，一切都必须用数据说话，拿出实验证明给我看”。这种对严密实验和数据铁证的坚执伴随了她很多年，直到生命中的某个时刻，她感到生活深处需要某种超越数据的东西。她开始反思：难道唯有经典科学方法能证实的东西才是真实存在的吗？如果存在某些超验的、科学实验无法测量的精神与宗教维度，它们难道就不可能是真实的吗？如果现有的科学工具无法触及这些领域，“也许问题不在于这些维度的存在，而在于我们的科学方法本身具有局限性”。 主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）追问，神经科学家受过的严苛训练要求他们能解释所有信念的逻辑成因，那么支持她相信这种超验维度的到底是什么？温迪解释道，这种信念一部分源于内心的直观感受，但更关键的是学术训练带来的哲学自省——科学方法绝非年轻时自以为的“终极全能真理”。在成长背景中，她来自一个半基督教、半佛教的家庭，但核心底色倾向于基督教。如今，她依然保留着以学术精神研读《圣经》等人类古老典籍的习惯，并且坚持去教堂做礼拜。她深刻体会到宗教信仰带给心灵的笃定力量，这种精神寄托不仅切实平复了她内心的焦虑，也填补了单纯依靠实证科学所无法企及的生命向度。 - **科学观念的转变**：从早期“非黑即白、必须有实验证明”的硬核实证观，转向承认科学方法存在局限，认识到人类经验中存在超越经典科学验证范畴的精神现实。 - **信仰与心理效应**：温迪表示去教堂和持有宗教信念能够显著减轻个人的焦虑感，但她强调自己并非带着“寻找抗焦虑工具”的功利心态走入信仰，而是为了探求超越冷冰冰科研范式的更丰盈的生命意义。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 认知进化与世界观转变 accDescr: 展示温迪·铃木从早期的绝对科学主义向容纳灵性与社群共鸣的思维转变路径。 subgraph Phase1["青年科学家时期"] A["唯科学主义与数据至上<br/>'一切皆可用科学解释'"] --> B["排斥灵性与宗教<br/>要求绝对实验证据"] end subgraph Phase2["生命反思与顿悟"] B --> C["察觉生命深层的虚空与诉求"] C --> D["反思科学局限：<br/>科学无法证伪的领域依然可能真实存在"] end subgraph Phase3["整合与精神支柱"] D --> E["拥抱信仰与神圣文本<br/>（基督教与佛教背景）"] E --> F["获得内心平静、显著降低焦虑"] F --> G["转向人际连接、关怀社群与慈悲"] end ``` --- ### [01:26:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=5170s) 现代社会的孤独危机与重构社群的良药 史蒂芬感叹，当代社会正朝着一个极其危险的方向疾驰——人手一部智能手机、屏幕依赖严重，换来的却是普遍的孤独、疏离，以及关键时刻可以求助的知心好友越来越少。沿着这条路一直走到黑，人们深切体会到了它对人性深处带来的剥夺感。史蒂芬提到，自己随着年龄增长愈发渴望拥有孩子，正是为了在赚钱等浅层世俗追求之外，寻找一种更深层的生命归宿与目的感。这与温迪在录音前跟他聊起的话题不谋而合——她近来一直在深刻思考“社群”（Community）的价值。 温迪将真正的人际社群形容为现代人“心灵的香精香膏”（balm）。在她所任教的纽约大学，许多年轻人长期陷在虚拟数字网络里，对面对面的真实社交感到陌生甚至局促。然而，一旦学校创造出让大家聚在一起面对面交流、倾听彼此故事的线下场合，那种快乐与融洽具有立竿见影的治愈力量。温迪无论是在自己身上，还是在那些参与活动的学生眼中，都能瞬间看到生命力与愉悦感的重新点燃。 --- ### [01:27:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=5243s) 你只有这一个大脑：终身养护的紧迫性 当被问及“关于桌上的大脑模型和我们每个人颅内的大脑，这期节目还有什么最重要的一点未曾提及”时，温迪给出了一个掷地有声的回答：“你一生只有一个大脑（You only have one）。” 温迪谈起了自己的家庭创伤：她曾亲眼目睹患有阿尔茨海默病（Alzheimer's dementia）的父亲在认知退化中离世，家族中亦有其他年迈长辈。这残酷的现实化作了她日常生活中最强烈的行动力——促使她不遗余力地坚持健康生活方式、广交朋友、维系深厚的情感连接。她微笑着说道，自己的目标是在余生尽可能快乐，并守护一个“又大又饱满、毛茸茸般健康坚韧的大脑（a big fat fluffy brain）”。正因为大脑独一无二、无法替换，人们必须时刻谨记：不必等待未来，就在今天、在当下，你所做的每一个微小抉择，都有能力让你的大脑变得更加强健。 - **核心警示**：大脑是一次性不可替代的器官，保护大脑健康的黄金期就是当下。 - **终身预防策略**：通过规律运动、持续学习、保持优质睡眠以及建立真挚的人际互动网络，来对抗神经退行性疾病，打造强大的认知储备。 --- ### [01:28:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=5310s) 人性最美好的品质：慈悲与同理 在访谈尾声，史蒂芬对温迪致以深切的谢意。他高度赞扬温迪在传递脑科学知识时展现出的无与伦比的热忱，称赞她的工作不仅是学术科普，更是一场以改善他人生命质量为己任的宏大“使命”（mission）。史蒂芬特别推荐了温迪的两部代表作：2015年出版的《健康大脑，快乐生活》（*Healthy Brain, Happy Life*），以及重新诠释焦虑价值的著作《积极焦虑》（*Good Anxiety*）。史蒂芬感慨道，将焦虑重新认知为身体传递警告与教诲的信号，能让人学会对这些情绪心怀感激，并从中汲取生存的智慧。 随后，史蒂芬翻开了节目传统的“嘉宾留言册”——上一位嘉宾在不知晓下一位是谁的情况下留下了一道问题：“你认为人性中最美好的品质是什么？（What is the best quality of humanity?）” 温迪沉思片刻后给出了回答：“慈悲与同理心（Compassion）。”她解释道，所谓的慈悲，就是能够真正感同身受他人的处境与际遇——既能真挚地为他人的快乐而欢喜，也能在他人陷入悲伤与苦痛时，以深切的同理心去分担那份哀伤。在当下这个充满割裂与孤独的时代，由于她始终在探索人与人之间的联结与社群，这种跨越个体的共情之光，成了她心中衡量人性光辉的最高标尺。 ## Notable quotes > [37:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=2259s) Every drop of sweat counted — Dr. Wendy Suzuki > [21:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=1267s) a bubble bath of neurochemicals — Dr. Wendy Suzuki > [58:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=3497s) 海马体以对你或对我来说独一无二的崭新且有趣的方式，将记忆中所有的元素重新拼接组合起来。 — 温迪·铃木博士 > [01:08:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4098s) 当你知道自己的焦虑在聚焦哪些担忧与恐惧时，它其实正在向你揭示：在你的生命里，你究竟将什么视若至宝。 — 温迪·铃木博士 > [01:17:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4631s) with great pain comes great wisdom — 健身教练 > [01:17:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4631s) 我之所以承受着如此深不见底的悲痛，唯一的根源在于起初我对他们怀有的深爱。如果我不曾那样深切地爱过他们，就不会遭受如此沉重的痛苦。这漫无边际的悲伤，正是真挚爱意的明证。 — Dr. Wendy Suzuki > [01:22:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=4960s) 也许问题不在于这些维度的存在，而在于我们的科学方法本身具有局限性 — 温迪·铃木 > [01:27:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=5243s) You only have one — 温迪·铃木 > [01:28:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ&t=5310s) Compassion — 温迪·铃木 ## Mentioned Wendy Suzuki（温迪·铃木）, Steven Bartlett（史蒂文·巴特利特）, 《CEO日记》（The Diary Of A CEO）, 《健康大脑，快乐生活》（Healthy Brain, Happy Life）, 《积极焦虑》（Good Anxiety）, 纽约大学（New York University）, 加州大学伯克利分校（UC Berkeley）, Marian Diamond（玛丽安·戴蒙德）, Eleanor Maguire（埃莉诺·马奎尔）, 伦敦大学学院（UCL）, Robert Waldinger（罗伯特·瓦丁格）, Tony Robbins（托尼·罗宾斯）, PerfectTed, 《龙穴之创业投资》（Dragons' Den）, 阿尔茨海默病（Alzheimer's disease）, 脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）, 多巴胺（Dopamine）, 血清素（Serotonin）, 去甲肾上腺素（Norepinephrine / Noradrenaline）, 皮质醇（Cortisol）, 前额叶皮层（Prefrontal Cortex）, 海马体（Hippocampus）, 杏仁核（Amygdala） ## Video description Dr Wendy Suzuki is a Professor of Neural Science and Psychology at New York University and the bestselling author of books such as, ‘Good Anxiety’ and ‘Healthy Brain, Happy Life’. 00:00 Intro 02:18 The Importance of Healthy Brain 02:58 Why People Need To Look After Their Brains 04:23 How To Keep Your Brain Healthy 07:09 Learning This About The Brain Changed My Life 10:37 My Father's Dementia Journey 12:37 You Can Grow New Brain Cells 16:01 How Learning Changes The Structure Of Your Brain 18:43 You Can Improve Your Brain Health At Any Point - Here's How 22:28 What's Causing Dementia & Alzheimer's 24:24 How Does Memory Work? 24:53 How To Improve Your Bad Memory 26:35 The Different Types Of Memory 27:35 How To Remember Things Better 28:49 The Memory Palace Technique 33:04 Holding a Real Human Brain 37:19 The Best Exercise For Your Brain 42:04 How To Be Better At Speaking And Memory 43:37 The Effects Of Coffee On Our Brains 45:09 What Lack Of Sleep Is Doing To Your Neurons 46:58 The Best Diets For An Optimal Brain 47:48 The Shocking Benefits Of Human Connections 49:15 Neuroscientist Recommends This Morning Routine For Optimal Brain Function 50:31 What Are The Worst Habits For Your Brain? 51:41 Does Mindfulness Help The Brain? 52:21 What Social Media Is Doing To Your Brain 55:46 What To Do About Social Media And Phone Addiction 59:21 Anxiety Levels Are Increasing 01:04:02 Where Do We Experience Anxiety In The Brain? 01:06:22 How To Turn Down Our Stress Levels 01:08:18 What Do Emotions Do To Our Brain And Body? 01:10:21 Ads 01:11:22 Does The Brain Change When We're In Love? 01:14:13 What You Learn From Going Through Grief 01:29:26 What Is The Best Quality Of Humanity You can purchase Wendy’s book, ‘Good Anxiety’, here: https://amzn.to/3wPFoDZ Follow Wendy: Instagram - https://bit.ly/3wIeNZw Twitter - https://bit.ly/3V3gHNL Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Sponsors: PerfectTed: https://bit.ly/PerfectTed-DOAC with an exclusive code DIARY10 for 10% off [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-tRub-0pQ)

[37:39] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: Every drop of sweat counted [21:07] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: a bubble bath of neurochemicals [58:17] 温迪·铃木博士: 海马体以对你或对我来说独一无二的崭新且有趣的方式，将记忆中所有的元素重新拼接组合起来。 [68:18] 温迪·铃木博士: 当你知道自己的焦虑在聚焦哪些担忧与恐惧时，它其实正在向你揭示：在你的生命里，你究竟将什么视若至宝。 [77:11] 健身教练: with great pain comes great wisdom [77:11] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: 我之所以承受着如此深不见底的悲痛，唯一的根源在于起初我对他们怀有的深爱。如果我不曾那样深切地爱过他们，就不会遭受如此沉重的痛苦。这漫无边际的悲伤，正是真挚爱意的明证。 [82:40] 温迪·铃木: 也许问题不在于这些维度的存在，而在于我们的科学方法本身具有局限性 [87:23] 温迪·铃木: You only have one [88:30] 温迪·铃木: Compassion

[18:43] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: Exercise is not going to eliminate that disease state, but if you start with a huge, fluffy hippocampus, it's going to take that disease that much longer to actually damage enough of your hippocampus so that you start seeing those telltale signs. [27:35] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: The amygdala is kind of infusing the hippocampus and giving it a little jolt when it's emotionally resonant, either really happy or really sad. [57:12] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: The not wanting to be alone with your thoughts is the core of meditation. Can you be alone with your thoughts and focus on something organic, usually the breath, but also a thought like loving kindness? [64:02] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: Our stress and our threat system is not very smart. It isn't differentiating between the lion that could physically kill us and the DM that might wound our pride... but will not kill us. [74:13] With great pain comes great wisdom. [74:13] Dr. Wendy Suzuki: On the other side of that unfathomable grief that I was feeling, the only reason why I was feeling that unfathomable grief is because of the deep love that I had that it started with... The grief and the depth of it was a sign of the love that I had for them.

[0:00] In this box is a real preserved human [0:03] brain named Betty. And I think you [0:05] should hold it. [0:07] Oh my god, it's wet. [0:09] And now we're going to go through all [0:11] the tools and tricks to make your brain [0:13] as healthy as it can be. Are you ready? [0:16] Wendy Suzuki, the neuroscientist and [0:18] professor at New York University. [0:20] Her first-hand research on the brain is [0:22] helping to improve memory, learning, and [0:24] higher cognitive abilities in humans. [0:27] Let me start with exercise. [0:28] All the research shows the more you [0:31] exercise, the more change in your brain [0:34] we notice. Every drop of sweat counted. [0:36] And the best kind of exercise that you [0:39] can do is [0:40] What about things that we consume? Food, [0:42] drink, and alcohol. [0:43] It's all the Mediterranean diet. Go [0:45] ahead. [0:45] Coffee. [0:49] And then my memory's not great. [0:50] Most people feel that. But there's four [0:52] things that you can do to make memories [0:54] stick. Number one is [0:56] Is it true that if we have less friends, [0:58] then our brain will shrink? [1:00] Yes, loneliness damages the brain. [1:02] Can you see if someone's in love in the [1:03] brain? [1:04] Yes, in the side here. A lot of the [1:06] reward areas are activated. [1:08] Doesn't that mean then that if we don't [1:09] fall in love, the love part of my brain [1:11] gets smaller? And would that make it [1:12] more difficult to love in the future? [1:14] That's a great question. So [1:16] Wendy, do you have any brain routines? [1:19] Absolutely. So every morning I like to [1:22] Oh, and then I do the most powerful tool [1:24] that you can do to protect your brain [1:26] from aging and neurodegenerative disease [1:28] states, which is [1:31] We've just hit 6 million subscribers on [1:33] the Diary of a CEO. Um, so me and my [1:35] team would like to do something we've [1:36] never done before as a little thank you. [1:38] And we're calling it the Diary of a CEO [1:39] subscriber raffle. And here is how it [1:41] works. Every episode this month, we're [1:43] going to pick three current subscribers [1:45] at random, and we'll send one of you a [1:47] £1,000 voucher, one of you tickets to [1:49] come and watch the Diary of a CEO behind [1:50] the scenes live with our team, and one [1:52] of you will have a 10-minute phone call [1:54] with me to discuss whatever you want to [1:55] talk about. If you're a subscriber, [1:58] you're in the raffle. [1:59] Thank you from the bottom of my heart [2:01] for allowing me to do something that me [2:03] and my team love doing so much. It is [2:05] the greatest honor of my lifetime, and I [2:06] hope that I hope it continues off into [2:09] the future. Let's get to the episode. [2:18] You just said to me that much of your [2:20] work is focused on making sure people [2:21] have big, fat, fluffy brains. [2:24] Yes. [2:25] Why does that matter? [2:26] It matters because a big, fat, fluffy [2:29] brain is a healthy brain, and [2:33] my whole first book, Healthy Brain, [2:35] Happy Life, was about how I learned to [2:37] use all the tools and tricks and magic [2:41] of neuroscience and psychology to make [2:44] my brain work better, and I so needed it [2:47] at that moment. My life got better. I [2:50] got happier. It is a pathway to a happy [2:53] life, I think. [2:54] Having a very healthy, big, fat, fluffy [2:57] brain. [2:58] Do you think people appreciate the [2:59] importance of their brain? [3:00] No. I think they ignore it all the time. [3:04] And I think that is part of my part of [3:07] my message to everybody that that the [3:10] human brain, that is the one in your [3:12] head right now, is the most complex [3:14] structure known to humankind. Not [3:16] Einstein's brain, not Marie Curie's [3:19] brain, but the one in your head. And [3:22] when you think about that, it gives you [3:25] more of a self-appreciation [3:27] of all of the computations that is [3:30] taking for me to see you and appreciate [3:33] your face and be able to remember your [3:35] face next time I see you when I go to my [3:38] Diary of a CEO podcast and and choose an [3:41] episode, all of that is is such a [3:45] complex structure. Um you start to [3:47] appreciate your own kind of brain [3:49] functioning more. I think that's a very [3:50] important thing to do. [3:52] Why don't we appreciate our brains? Cuz [3:54] we appreciate a lot of other things. [3:55] Yeah. [3:56] We spend a lot of time on our like our [3:57] muscles. [3:58] Yeah, our abs. [3:59] Yeah. [4:00] I think that that's a great analogy and [4:03] part of my goal is to kind of shift the [4:06] focus from focusing on certain body [4:09] parts to focusing on what our brain is [4:12] doing for us, what it can do for us, and [4:15] what we can do to change our [4:17] environments to get to that big fat [4:19] fluffy brain, to get it healthy, to get [4:21] it happy, to get it growing. [4:23] If I achieve a big fat fluffy brain, [4:27] how would my life be different? I'm [4:29] saying me, Steve Bartlett. I'm a [4:30] podcaster, I'm an I'm an entrepreneur, [4:32] I'm [4:32] relationships, I've got friends, [4:34] girlfriend, family. How would I show up [4:36] differently if I was able to make my [4:39] brain big, fat, fluffy? [4:40] Yeah. So, uh let me start with the two [4:42] areas that we know respond really, [4:45] really well to things like meditation [4:48] and exercise. Those two brain areas are [4:50] the hippocampus, critical for long-term [4:53] memory, your ability to form and retain [4:55] new long-term memories and for facts and [4:57] events. And the second brain area is [4:59] your prefrontal cortex, right behind [5:01] your forehead, critical for your ability [5:03] to shift and focus attention. Um it's [5:05] important for your personality, for [5:07] decision-making. [5:08] Can you show me on there? Is it you [5:09] brought [5:10] Absolutely. I brought a human brain. [5:11] You You have [5:12] that. [5:13] a model of a brain as well. [5:14] a model of the brain. Okay, let's start [5:15] with the model of the brain. [5:20] So, here is a model of the human brain. [5:23] So, there's a front part and a back [5:25] part. This front part is right behind [5:28] our forehead. That's the prefrontal [5:29] cortex, critical for the ability to [5:32] shift and focus attention. Also, a part [5:35] of the brain that is very responsive to [5:38] what you bring into your life. Exercise [5:41] actually really helps the prefrontal [5:42] cortex. Meditation [5:44] helps area 10 of the prefrontal cortex, [5:46] which is right in the very front, right [5:49] here. The second brain area that you [5:51] will benefit from when you make your [5:54] brain big and fat and fluffy is a [5:56] structure called the hippocampus, which [5:57] is which is very deep in this lobe, [6:01] deep in this lobe right here, which is [6:03] the temporal lobe. The hippocampus [6:07] Hippocampus means seahorse, and the [6:09] hippocampus is critical for your ability [6:12] to to form and retain new long-term [6:15] memories for facts and events. You have [6:16] one on the right and you have one on the [6:17] left. So, for you, [6:20] superstar podcaster, what do you need to [6:23] do? You need to remember all the details [6:25] of that guest that you're sitting in [6:27] front of. You need to be able to focus. [6:29] What did they say? What do I want to ask [6:31] next? And how do I want to come back to [6:33] those things? That is a combination of [6:35] what your prefrontal cortex is doing for [6:36] you and your hippocampus is doing for [6:39] you. So, I submit that you, when you do [6:43] these things that we know from [6:44] neuroscience, are going to make your [6:47] prefrontal cortex and your hippocampus [6:48] big and fat and fluffy, you will be [6:51] better at doing your job as a podcaster. [6:54] I am better as a dean and a professor of [6:57] neuroscience and and teaching in class, [7:00] for example, is where I'm using my [7:01] prefrontal cortex and my hippocampus the [7:03] most. Most of us would benefit from [7:06] these things that make our brains big [7:08] and fat and fluffy. [7:09] Was there a point in your life where you [7:11] had a personal epiphany or revelation [7:14] about the brain that made you so [7:16] passionate about the subject? [7:17] Absolutely. Absolutely. So, this story [7:21] starts when I was in the middle of [7:24] getting tenure um at New York [7:26] University. So, it takes six years. Uh [7:28] you have six years to prove yourself as [7:31] a scientist and do something [7:32] groundbreaking. And if you don't, you're [7:35] fired. So, no big deal. No pressure [7:37] there. And I decided to only just work. [7:41] Work, work, work. I didn't have a lot of [7:43] social interactions. I was just working [7:45] and I just just threw myself into work. [7:48] And I was getting burnt out. And [7:51] I decided to go on a river rafting trip [7:54] to Peru [7:55] by myself cuz I had no friends. So I go [7:57] on the river rafting trip and it's [7:59] great. It's beautiful. We're river [8:01] rafting. We're we're camping on Aztec [8:04] burial sites and it is just spectacular. [8:08] But I realized that I'm the weakest [8:10] person on this trip. And when I got back [8:13] after this wonderful, you know, two [8:15] weeks in Peru, [8:17] I said I never want to feel like the [8:18] weakest person on a trip like that [8:20] again. And it was so great to to be [8:23] moving and to be exercising. So I [8:25] decided I'm going to go to the gym and [8:27] I'm going to continue this [8:29] physical activity at the gym. And [8:31] somehow it stuck. I had I had let myself [8:34] go, not no exercise at all. And when I [8:38] started going to the gym regularly, I [8:40] noticed that that great mood that I [8:43] found in Peru every day during the river [8:45] rafting trip stayed with me. I think [8:48] everybody in my lab loved it when I was [8:50] going to the gym. And I started to [8:52] notice not only I got stronger, I was [8:54] feeling better, [8:56] that mood boost that I got from physical [8:58] activity was so powerful. But then one [9:02] day this you asked me about this [9:04] revelation I had. It was one day I was [9:06] sitting in my office [9:08] writing a grant, [9:09] which is usually something that I have [9:12] to do very regularly, but usually [9:13] something that I'm pulling my hair out. [9:15] It's so hard. It's very competitive. I'm [9:17] competing against Nobel laureates for [9:19] the same pot of money. [9:22] And I had this thought that went through [9:23] my mind, which was [9:25] gosh, writing [9:27] went well today. I I'd never had that [9:30] thought before ever in my I had been [9:32] there for five years at at NYU writing [9:34] grants. And so um, I um, I thought, "Oh, [9:39] maybe maybe I'm just having a good day. [9:41] I'm feeling good." [9:42] But I realized that the um, [9:45] the writing seemed to have been getting [9:47] a little bit better over time. I had [9:49] noticed it a little bit if I think about [9:50] it. And the only thing I had changed in [9:53] my life was regular physical activity [9:56] inspired by that trip to Peru. [9:59] And so, I'm a neuroscientist. I went to [10:02] the literature and I asked, "Well, what [10:03] do we know right now about what exactly [10:05] exercise is doing?" [10:07] And it showed at that moment in time, [10:09] about 10 15 years ago, [10:13] that exercise can improve your mood, [10:16] exercise actually makes your memory work [10:19] better, and exercise improves the [10:21] function of your prefrontal cortex. And [10:23] I thought, "Wow, that that is amazing." [10:27] But the last part of the story was that [10:30] when all of this was going on, this was [10:32] after this day of realizing, "Gosh, [10:34] something's you know, my writing is [10:36] better and um, maybe it's exercise." Um, [10:39] I got a call from my mom who said that [10:42] my father wasn't feeling well and that [10:45] he had gotten lost driving back from the [10:48] coffee shop that he drove to every day, [10:51] every afternoon for the last 20 years. [10:54] And the hippocampus, that structure [10:56] critical for memory, is particularly [10:58] important for spatial memory. And as an [11:02] expert in the hippocampus, as I am, I [11:04] knew that that was a telltale sign of [11:07] dementia and maybe Alzheimer's dementia. [11:11] But as I talked to my father and of [11:13] course we went and got him uh, neurology [11:15] appointment, I saw that everything that [11:18] seemed to be improving in me, that is [11:20] memory, focus, [11:23] completely and very very suddenly uh, [11:26] diminished in him. His memory was [11:28] terrible. He couldn't focus. He was also [11:31] very depressed because he could notice [11:33] how poor his memory was. [11:36] And I think those things together, what [11:39] I was noticing in myself about the [11:41] physical effects of the effects of [11:43] physical activity on my own brain [11:45] function, and seeing my father go [11:47] through which what was a really [11:50] precipitous loss of his cognitive [11:52] functions, that turned out to be [11:54] Alzheimer's dementia. [11:56] Made me think that the power of physical [12:01] activity needed to be explored more [12:03] deeply. [12:04] And by me. I I was waking up in the [12:07] morning thinking about what can we what [12:09] can I do to better understand how [12:11] physical activity could be used not just [12:13] for me, for my students? Can they study [12:15] better? Can they learn better? Can it [12:17] help maybe not my father, I wasn't sure [12:20] whether exercise could help my father at [12:21] that point, but as people age, that was [12:25] the revelation that I had that made me [12:28] actually switch my research focus from [12:31] memory function to understanding the [12:34] effects of physical activity on the [12:36] brain. [12:37] All of this is rooted in a [12:41] fact that was once not considered a [12:43] fact, which is the idea that our brains [12:45] can change shape. [12:46] Yes. Yeah. [12:47] Which is this idea of brain plasticity. [12:48] I mean, I really learned about this a [12:49] couple of years ago cuz I think I, like [12:51] many people, didn't realize that like [12:53] muscles, my brain changes shape based on [12:55] what I do. [12:56] Yes. [12:57] And also what I consume. [12:59] Yes. [12:59] I guess. [13:00] Yes. [13:00] What is the evidence for the studies [13:02] that we have that proves our brains do [13:03] change shape? [13:04] Yeah, that's such a great question and [13:06] uh it takes me back to the first day of [13:08] my freshman year at UC Berkeley. When I [13:11] walked into the classroom, I didn't know [13:13] at the time, but the classroom of the [13:15] professor that discovered brain [13:17] plasticity. Her name is Marian Diamond [13:20] and she was the very first female PhD in [13:23] neuroanatomy that UC Berkeley ever gave. [13:26] Um I walked into her classroom in the [13:29] '80s when I went to college, but she [13:31] discovered this in the late 1960s. [13:35] Um, when it was thought, as you said, [13:37] that the adult brain can't change at [13:39] all. There's absolutely no evidence for [13:41] it. And that was true at the time. She [13:43] thought, "Hmm, I don't think that's [13:45] true. Let's Let's do a simple [13:47] experiment. Let's try and um [13:50] uh look at the effects in two randomly [13:53] grouped set of rats. One that lives in [13:56] what they would consider an enriched [13:58] environment. What would be an enriched [14:00] environment? Well, for her, it was a rat [14:03] cage full of toys that got changed out [14:05] all the time, lots of other rats to play [14:07] with, and um lots of lots of activity. I [14:11] think of it as the Disney World of rat [14:13] cages. And she compared the brains of [14:16] those rats to rats that she raised in [14:18] kind of a shoebox, a smaller [14:20] environment. They got free food and [14:21] water, all the food and water they could [14:23] eat and drink, but maybe only one other [14:25] rat and no toys. [14:27] Now, if the adult brain They were all [14:28] the same age, they were adults. If the [14:31] If the adult brain didn't change, then [14:32] there should be absolutely no difference [14:34] between the brains raised in Disney [14:36] World and the brains raised in the [14:38] shoebox. But she found that the [14:41] the brains of those rats raised in the [14:43] Disney World of rat cages, the outer [14:46] covering of the brain, the outside of [14:48] the brain here, I'm pointing to the [14:50] outside of this brain model here, called [14:53] the cortex, it was actually thicker. She [14:56] was She was a neuroanatomist, and she [14:58] showed that the thickness of this outer [15:00] covering actually grew. What does that [15:02] mean? There were more synaptic [15:04] connections there. In Not in the whole [15:07] brain, in certain brain areas. That made [15:09] sense. The visual cortical area. There [15:12] was much more visual stimulation in the [15:14] Disney World of rat cages. The motor [15:16] areas were thicker. The somatosensory, [15:18] the touch areas were thicker because [15:20] they were interacting in a much more [15:21] complex way with their touch system. [15:26] And that was the first demonstration the [15:28] adult brain could change, and that it [15:31] would actually make the cortex of the [15:34] brain grow. [15:36] And now we know, what is it about the [15:38] Disney world of rat cages, you know? Um, [15:41] is it the toys? Should we all be playing [15:43] with toys? Later studies showed that you [15:46] get almost identical effects just by [15:49] giving rats a running wheel. [15:52] Physical activity is doing all of that, [15:55] has the potential to change all of that [15:58] in the rodent brain, and now in the [16:00] human brain. [16:01] Didn't they find something similar with [16:02] um, London taxi drivers? I always hear [16:05] this. I I thought it was like a wasn't [16:07] sure if it was true or like a rumor, but [16:09] no. It's absolutely true. That is a [16:11] different form of brain plasticity, [16:14] which is something that we all do, and [16:15] my students do hopefully very well, [16:17] which is learning. [16:18] So, can learning the streets of London, [16:22] which are I can't remember the the the [16:24] number of different streets that London [16:27] taxicab drivers have to learn to pass [16:30] the famous test called the knowledge, [16:33] but I do remember that it takes them 4 [16:35] years to study for this test. It is [16:39] intense [16:40] uh knowledge. You have to learn all the [16:43] lawful ways to get from all the big [16:45] landmarks to be a certified London [16:48] taxicab driver. And what uh my colleague [16:51] Eleanor Maguire, uh professor of [16:53] neuroscience at University College [16:55] London, did is she followed wanna-be [16:59] London taxicab drivers during their 4 [17:02] years of the knowledge, this test for [17:05] London taxicab drivers, knowing that [17:07] half of them were going to fail. They're [17:09] they're they were not going to make it. [17:11] And so, she tested them at the beginning [17:13] and asked, "How is your memory?" Uh, and [17:16] how big is your hippocampus? [17:18] Identical for all all of the wannabe [17:21] London taxi cab drivers before they [17:23] started. [17:23] She scanned their brains. [17:24] Yeah, she scanned their brains and she [17:26] tested their memory. [17:27] Okay. [17:28] Behaviorally. [17:29] Then they go through, half of them drop [17:31] out, they don't become London taxi cab [17:33] drivers and half of them become [17:35] certified London taxi cab drivers after [17:38] successfully learning all of this. Now [17:41] let's see, how big is your hippocampus [17:43] and how good is your memory? The people [17:45] that passed the test and became London [17:48] taxi cab drivers, the posterior part of [17:50] their hippocampus, which is the part we [17:52] know is important for it with posterior [17:54] is back towards the back of the head, [17:57] the posterior part of the hippocampus, [17:58] which is kind of a cigar-shaped [18:00] structure that goes from the front part [18:02] of the brain to the back part of the [18:03] brain, that back part of the brain was [18:06] significantly bigger in those London [18:10] successful London taxi cab drivers [18:12] compared to the failed London taxi cab [18:16] drivers. And the memory of the [18:19] successful London taxi cab drivers were [18:21] now superior to the memory of the [18:24] wannabe London taxi cab drivers that [18:27] failed. So that is an example of how [18:30] intense learning in a particular part of [18:33] the brain, [18:35] we know the posterior hippocampus is [18:36] absolutely involved in spatial learning, [18:39] that can change the actual structure and [18:42] the function. [18:43] How much of a difference can we make? [18:45] I'm 31 years old now. [18:47] Yeah. [18:47] So if I got serious about my brain [18:50] health, [18:50] Yeah. [18:51] how much of a difference can I [18:53] realistically see? [18:55] You know, I'm trying to figure out if [18:56] it's worth it. [18:57] Yeah. [18:57] If it's worth caring about my brain. [18:59] Mhm. [19:00] Is Is there any evidence within the [19:02] literature, within studies that have [19:03] been done that show if I start now, even [19:06] though I'm like 30 31 years old, [19:08] my life will be different in the future [19:10] in the areas that I care about [19:12] profoundly if I start caring about my [19:14] brain. [19:16] Let me be very very um [19:19] um concrete here. The answer is [19:21] absolutely yes. First, I'm going to give [19:23] you results of a study in people that [19:25] are 65 and older. So, study people that [19:28] are 65 and older [19:30] and asked, "What is the probability of [19:33] getting dementia in the next 6 years [19:36] depending on the level of activity that [19:38] you have just right now?" [19:40] Physical activity. [19:42] And they measured it in how many walks [19:43] you take per week. [19:45] And if you took three walks a week or [19:48] more, [19:50] you were 30% less likely to develop [19:53] dementia in the next 5 years. [19:57] So, ooh, 30% [19:59] uh less likely to develop dementia. My [20:02] father passed away of Alzheimer's [20:04] dementia. That makes me sit up and take [20:07] notice. But the But the thing that [20:09] should make you as a 31-year-old uh [20:12] really sit up and take notice is the [20:14] larger correlations that show that the [20:17] longer you have regular physical [20:19] activity in your life, the longer you're [20:22] able to stave off dementia. The more [20:25] active you are over your lifetime, um [20:29] that first study shows that it's never [20:30] too late to start. You can start walking [20:32] regularly, which is doable when you're [20:35] uh perhaps at that age. But the longer [20:38] you stay active, the bigger and fatter [20:41] and fluffier your brain will be. Why [20:44] does that make sense? So, [20:46] one key piece of information that I [20:47] haven't told you yet [20:49] is that we know that physical activity [20:53] is releasing a whole Every single time [20:55] you move your body, you're releasing a [20:57] whole bunch of neurochemicals in your [20:59] brain. Some of them make you just feel [21:01] good. Serotonin, dopamine, [21:04] noradrenaline, endorphins. Yeah, I feel [21:06] good. If I go out for a walk, I feel [21:07] better than if I had been sitting here [21:09] for 8 hours. But, the other thing that [21:11] gets released every single time is [21:13] growth factors. I like to call it a [21:15] bubble bath of neurochemicals that [21:17] happens every time you move your body. [21:21] What that [21:22] growth factor does is it goes directly [21:25] into your hippocampus, and it helps [21:27] brand new cells grow in your [21:29] hippocampus. The hippocampus is only one [21:31] of two total brain areas where new cells [21:35] can grow. That's not the same as [21:36] synapses, which are connections in the [21:38] cells that are already there. But, the [21:40] hippocampus can grow new cells, and this [21:43] is really important because many people [21:46] know that the hippocampus is attacked [21:48] first in Alzheimer's dementia. [21:51] And so, exercise is not going to [21:54] eliminate that disease state, but if you [21:57] start with a huge, fluffy hippocampus, [21:59] it's going to take that disease that [22:01] much longer to actually damage enough of [22:04] your hippocampus so that you start [22:06] seeing those telltale signs of memory [22:08] impairment that comes with Alzheimer's [22:11] disease and and dementia in general. [22:13] Same thing with the prefrontal cortex. [22:15] Your prefrontal cortex can grow with [22:18] physical activity. That's not neurons, [22:20] but new synapses can grow. [22:23] Age and neurodegenerative disease states [22:25] can damage cells, but also take away [22:27] synapses. [22:28] I got two questions on that. So, the [22:30] first is about dementia and Alzheimer's. [22:32] Do we know what's causing it? [22:33] No. [22:34] We still don't know. [22:35] No. [22:36] And there's not [22:38] good drugs, unfortunately, right now. [22:42] There's a lot of links to lifestyle [22:43] choices there, right? [22:44] Yes, absolutely. [22:46] And so, of course, from based on what I [22:48] just said, my number one most powerful [22:52] tool that you can do to protect your [22:54] brain from aging and neurodegenerative [22:57] disease states is start walking. [23:00] Why do I start with that? Because [23:01] everybody can walk. You don't need to [23:03] buy any new fitness outfits. Just go out [23:07] and walk more. And then they say, "Oh, [23:09] well, do I have to become a marathon [23:10] runner?" That could help, too. [23:12] But everybody can walk. And from that [23:15] study that I mentioned in the [23:16] 65-year-old, si- 30% reduction in um the [23:21] probability of getting Alzheimer's with [23:23] just walking. [23:24] You said that if I go and start walking [23:27] and I do exercise, my prefrontal cortex [23:29] will grow. [23:30] Which is the decision-making center, [23:32] right? [23:32] Yes. [23:33] So, does that mean then that if I am [23:36] somebody who is very sedentary, I don't [23:38] do much physical activity, [23:39] Mhm. [23:40] that my decision-making will be worse [23:42] compared to what it could be with the [23:44] same person if they were active? [23:45] Yes. I mean, that there is that [23:48] potential. Brain plasticity and the [23:50] neuroscience of brain plasticity tells [23:52] us that absolutely with physical [23:54] activity, uh you have great potential to [23:57] improve the function of your prefrontal [23:59] cortex. And I must specify a little bit. [24:02] Uh the main function that is um that has [24:05] been shown to be particularly sensitive [24:07] to regular physical activity is um [24:10] shifting and focusing your attention. [24:12] So, being able to um listen to me while [24:15] you might be paying attention to uh the [24:17] AV guy that might be telling you [24:18] something right now. So, to be able to [24:20] do that effectively, uh that that is one [24:23] of the things that we know is helped [24:25] with regular physical activity. [24:26] Focus and attention, that kind of thing. [24:27] Okay. You talked about memory as well. [24:29] Does that Does that exist in the [24:30] prefrontal cortex as well? [24:31] Uh there's a form of memory, working [24:33] memory, uh which is kind of scratchpad [24:35] memory. It's a memory that um when we [24:37] used to have to remember telephone [24:39] numbers, that that the ability to [24:40] remember a seven-digit, at least in the [24:42] United States, telephone number. It's [24:45] different from long-term memory [24:46] formation, which is memory for facts and [24:49] events uh that is dependent on the [24:51] hippocampus. [24:53] I feel like my memory is not great. [24:55] Most people feel that. [24:57] Why is my memory not as good as other [25:00] people? [25:02] Because I I noticed this when I I was [25:04] with my friend in um Thailand many years [25:05] ago. I think I was 21 years old and we [25:08] could like leave the house and go on our [25:10] little mopeds for about an hour and he [25:13] could navigate us back home without [25:15] needing sat nav or Google Maps. And if I [25:17] go 3 minutes down the street, I'm lost. [25:20] Mhm. [25:20] And I always wondered why that was. Is [25:21] it because And then even with names and [25:23] stuff, I would always He's my best [25:24] friend. He's He's one of my best friends [25:26] for for 7 8 years. We ran a business [25:28] together and he would remember every [25:30] name of every person [25:32] and I couldn't. I wouldn't. And so I'd [25:34] always turn to him and say, "What was [25:35] that person's name again? What's that [25:36] you know?" [25:37] And I always wondered why my memory He [25:39] seemed to have this incredible memory [25:40] and mine seems to be pretty rudimentary. [25:43] I would argue that um yeah, everybody [25:46] has parts of their memory that aren't as [25:49] good as they want, but also other forms [25:52] of memory that they're very good at. So, [25:54] I would guess, I've only just met you [25:56] today, that your memory for stories and [26:00] storytelling and story progress is [26:03] excellent because it has to be for the [26:05] job that you do. I bet you it's much [26:07] better than your friend that can [26:09] navigate back. Not everybody has a [26:11] perfect memory in all the different [26:12] dimensions and and it's like our [26:14] personality. Some people have a [26:16] wonderful sense of humor and others [26:18] don't. Um It is about how our brains are [26:21] wired, which is defined both by nature [26:23] and nurture, our genes and you know, if [26:26] I if I went to uh stand-up comedy class, [26:29] I would probably get funnier, but um uh [26:32] but there's probably a limit to my [26:33] funniness compared to other people. [26:35] So, there's different types of memory. [26:37] Yes. [26:38] In your book, you talk about there being [26:40] I think it's like three different types [26:41] of memory in total. [26:43] That are formed in the hippocampus. [26:44] Uh there's lots of different names for [26:46] forms of memory in the hippocampus. Um [26:49] but I like to describe it as The [26:51] hippocampus is critical for our memory [26:53] for facts and and events. Um also called [26:56] declarative memory or cognitive memory. [26:59] Uh another form of memory that's [27:00] dependent on a completely different [27:02] structure is motor memory, like the [27:04] memory that you uh use to learn how to [27:07] play tennis or pickleball or whatever [27:09] you're playing. And it's not [27:10] declarative. I can't declare how I do a [27:13] backhand in in in tennis, but it is in [27:16] your motor functions. And and this is [27:18] dependent on the striatum and a a [27:20] motor-related structure. And then [27:21] there's the prefrontal cortex dependent [27:23] on that working memory or scratchpad [27:26] memory, keeping things in mind. So um [27:29] you and I are both trying to remember [27:31] what we've just said so we can we can [27:33] link it to things that we might say in [27:34] the future. [27:35] Uh uh one of the things I found really [27:36] interesting, both as a marketer but also [27:38] as a podcaster and as someone that's [27:40] making a lot of [27:41] content and trying to get people's [27:43] attention, was as I was reading through [27:45] your work it became quite clear to me [27:46] that there's an a bit of an overlap [27:49] between memory and attention in in many [27:51] respects because you were talking about [27:52] these four things that make facts or [27:53] events memorable. And many of those [27:53] things are things that I think about as [27:53] a marketer when I'm trying to get [27:53] someone [27:54] that make facts or events memorable. [27:56] Yes. [27:56] And many of those things [27:58] are things that I think about as a [27:59] marketer when I'm trying to get someone [28:01] to, you know, engage with something, [28:03] click on something, buy something. What [28:05] are those four things? [28:06] Okay. [28:06] Can we go through them? [28:07] Absolutely. So I like to say there are [28:10] four things that make memory stick. [28:14] And this is after 25 or 30 years [28:16] studying the hippocampus and and how [28:18] memories work. Number one is obvious [28:20] repetition. [28:21] Okay. [28:21] You you remember things with repetition. [28:23] Number two, not as obvious, association. [28:27] The hippocampus is an associative [28:30] structure. It associates one thing with [28:32] the other. Uh for example, your name and [28:34] your face. So I'm you know, I've just [28:36] met you and I mean I I I will remember [28:38] your name and your face now, but it also [28:41] helps you remember things like who's [28:43] married to each other, associating the [28:44] husband with the wife. Uh have you heard [28:47] of the memory palace? [28:49] Uh yes. [28:50] Yes. So, this is a technique that has [28:52] been used for many, many [28:54] ages uh to help remember things. And it [28:57] is a strategy where you picture a [29:01] special location [29:03] that's very familiar to you, like your [29:04] childhood home. And when you need to [29:07] remember a list of items, you take an [29:10] imaginative walk through that very [29:12] familiar environment and place those [29:14] items in particular locations in the [29:18] environment. That is associating [29:21] something really familiar, your [29:22] childhood home, you know every corner of [29:24] it, with the new thing you need to [29:26] remember. And that works uh and has [29:29] worked for memory champions for many [29:31] years because the hippocampus associates [29:34] things together. [29:36] That's number two, association. Number [29:37] three is novelty. We remember novel [29:41] things. I've never been to this [29:43] particular studio ever before in my 26 [29:46] years in New York and Brooklyn. So, this [29:48] is a novel thing and I remember I will [29:50] remember coming here uh to do this [29:52] podcast with you. Our brains, and this [29:55] is where it interacts with the attention [29:57] system. Our attention system focuses on [30:01] things that are novel. Why? Because it [30:02] could be dangerous. If I've seen it [30:05] things over and over and over again, I [30:07] don't notice them. They go into the [30:09] background. It's not going to hurt me [30:11] any, you know, it's not it's not going [30:13] to cause me any danger. [30:15] Cliché. That's why cliché doesn't work [30:16] in marketing. [30:17] Exactly. Yeah. And so, but something [30:20] novel, ooh, that really uh perks people [30:23] up. I use that in my teaching all the [30:25] time. Surprise students uh with uh an [30:29] element of what you want them to learn, [30:31] and they will remember it better. [30:33] But the fourth one, which is so [30:35] powerful, and we know it intuitively, we [30:38] understand this intuitively, is [30:40] emotional resonance makes things more [30:44] memorable. [30:45] We remember the happiest and the saddest [30:48] things in our lives because that [30:51] emotional resonance is solidifies those [30:54] memories. Where does that come from? It [30:56] comes from a structure called the [30:57] amygdala that sits right in front of the [30:59] hippocampus, right in the front of the [31:01] temporal lobe, right here. And the [31:03] hippocampus is right behind it. Amygdala [31:05] means almond. It's an almond-shaped [31:08] structure and it sits right in front of [31:11] um the kind of tube-shaped structure [31:12] that is the hippocampus behind it. And [31:15] the amygdala is kind of infusing uh the [31:18] hippocampus and kind of getting a giving [31:20] it a little jolt when it's emotionally [31:23] resonant, either really happy or really [31:26] sad. [31:28] You brought with you what you've told me [31:31] is a real human brain. [31:33] Yes, I did. [31:34] Now, I'm not sure if you're just winding [31:35] me up, but we're talking here about [31:37] novelty and surprise and [31:39] That's right. [31:40] things you'll never forget and emotional [31:41] resonance. [31:42] Correct. [31:42] And while you're saying that, I was [31:43] conscious that over in the corner of the [31:44] room it appears that there's a human [31:46] brain in a box. So, Jack is just [31:48] bringing the human brain in. [31:50] Yes. [31:51] I've never seen a human brain before. [31:53] You've never seen That's why I brought [31:54] you gloves so that you can hold it if [31:56] you like. [31:57] If you like. [31:59] Do you have permission [32:00] to If there is a human brain in this box [32:02] and you're not winding me up, did you [32:04] have to get permission from the [32:06] owner of that brain? [32:07] So, um this was [32:10] purchased uh lawfully um by my [32:14] department, the Center for Neural [32:15] Science at New York University. So, it [32:17] is lawfully ours to use as a teaching [32:21] tool. [32:22] And it does bring enormous novelty to [32:25] any situation that I go into and makes [32:28] people really think about their brain in [32:30] a new way, which is why I bring it. [32:32] What is in that box? [32:34] In this box is a real preserved human [32:38] brain named Betty. [32:41] Was the person [32:43] who used to own that brain called Betty? [32:46] No, we don't know the name of the [32:48] person. I named this brain Betty, so [32:51] Can you Can you tell if it's a man or a [32:52] woman? [32:52] No, I can't. [32:54] Huh. Man Men and women brains not [32:55] different at all? [32:56] They are, but in very, very subtle ways [32:59] that we wouldn't be able to tell just [33:00] looking at the the outside of the brain [33:02] like this. [33:03] Okay, I'm ready. [33:04] Are you ready? [33:05] I think so. [33:07] Okay. So, I'm going to open [33:11] the hat box. [33:13] No way is that a real [33:15] out [33:16] Are you joking? Is that really a brain? [33:18] It is [33:19] a real preserved human brain. [33:23] There it is. [33:25] Frontal lobe. [33:27] Frontal lobe. [33:28] Occipital lobe for vision. [33:31] Occipital lobe back there. [33:33] And in this brain, I don't know if you [33:35] can see it from over there, if I pull [33:37] apart [33:39] the two hemispheres, you can see how [33:40] deep [33:42] the the folds of the brain [33:45] the surface is folded in that deep into [33:49] the brain, which expands the surface [33:52] area of the outside of the cortex. The [33:54] rat cortex is flat. There's no folds. [33:59] Humans and elephants and dolphins have [34:03] lots of folds. They have much higher [34:06] capacity for computation because of the [34:09] folds that you see in this brain. [34:12] It's smaller than I was expecting. [34:13] Really? Half the people say it's [34:15] smaller, half the people say, "Wow, [34:16] that's that's enormous." [34:17] Interesting. Is that the the color of a [34:20] brain? [34:21] The color of the brain is darker than [34:23] the real brain if we opened up my head [34:26] right now, um, because of the [34:28] formaldehyde, the the preservative [34:30] chemical that this has been sitting in [34:32] for at least 26 years. This brain has [34:34] been in my department for [34:37] ever since I got here 26 years ago. [34:40] I feel like I probably should hold it. [34:42] I think you should hold it. [34:49] Oh my god. [34:51] It's wet. [34:52] Yes. [34:55] So, I mean that that has that defined [34:59] this person's whole life. [35:02] How they saw, felt, smelled, [35:05] heard, and thought about the world. [35:09] Just right there in your one hand, in [35:11] your right hand. [35:12] It's crazy to think that this little [35:14] thing is Oh, it's different underneath. [35:16] Yes. [35:18] It's crazy to think that this little [35:19] thing this little [35:22] That's the start of the spinal cord [35:23] right there that you're pointing at. [35:25] And this stuff at the underneath at the [35:27] back this [35:28] That is the cerebellum. [35:30] A brain structure critical for fine [35:32] motor movement. Um so, we wouldn't be [35:35] able to walk smoothly if you have damage [35:37] in your cerebellum. [35:39] Isn't it interesting that like [35:41] everything, as you say, everything this [35:43] person worried about, every thought, [35:45] every memory, every relationship, [35:48] all of their education, the school they [35:50] went to, the university, everything they [35:52] saw and remembered, and all of their [35:55] trauma, [35:56] Yep. [35:57] and their [35:58] anxiety, and maybe their depression, [36:02] everything they went through, even their [36:04] last days before they died, is like [36:06] captured in this little ball of like [36:09] tofu [36:10] Yep. [36:10] that sits in my hand. An entire human [36:12] being's existence. [36:14] It's true. [36:15] What they watched on TV, their favorite [36:16] movie, their favorite number, color, [36:18] everything is in this tiny little ball [36:20] of tofu. [36:23] It's true. [36:27] Oh gosh. [36:28] It is amazing and actually in real life [36:31] firm tofu is the consistency of of the [36:35] brain. I often bring in a [36:38] you know a block of of firm tofu [36:41] when I demo this for students in [36:43] addition to Betty. [36:45] Do you remember the first time you saw a [36:47] human brain? [36:48] I do. [36:49] Did it change how you think about your [36:50] own brain? [36:52] It changed my life because I was like I [36:57] want to study that. That is the coolest [36:59] thing that I've ever seen in my whole [37:02] life and I want to study that and I want [37:05] to be just like her and um [37:08] and so it it really like okay now I I [37:11] decided this is what I want to do. [37:14] And it was it was [37:17] it was life-changing. [37:19] I say that because we you know at the [37:20] start of this conversation we said that [37:21] most of us don't appreciate our brain. A [37:23] lot of people don't even realize it's [37:24] there. [37:25] Yeah. [37:25] The minute I had a brain scan one day [37:27] and that brain scan [37:29] really changed my life because seeing my [37:31] own brain for the first time [37:32] Yeah. [37:33] it was the push that I needed to start [37:35] caring more about how my decisions and [37:37] behaviors are impacting it. So let's [37:39] talk about how I can make that ball of [37:40] tofu in my head super healthy [37:42] Yeah. [37:43] Right. [37:43] You talked about exercise earlier on but [37:45] we didn't really dig dig into exactly [37:47] what you mean by exercise cuz exercise I [37:50] think is multifaceted in its definition. [37:52] What kind of exercise should I be doing [37:55] to make my ball of tofu in my head [37:58] great [37:59] Yeah. [37:59] optimal. [38:00] Mhm. Well, all the research shows that [38:03] the best kind of exercise that you can [38:05] do is anything that gives you aerobic [38:09] activity that is getting your heart rate [38:11] up. So that that goes for you know power [38:14] walking will get your heart rate up [38:16] soccer so many different things name [38:19] your activity. So many people want to [38:21] say oh [38:22] my favorite activity, will that work?" [38:23] And I always just say, "Is it Is your [38:25] heart rate up when you're doing it?" If [38:27] the answer is yes, then yeah, that that [38:29] works great. We know that that level of [38:31] aerobic activity is critical cuz that's [38:34] going to release that growth factor [38:36] maximally to get into your hippocampus [38:39] that will grow those new brain cells. [38:41] How much? [38:42] So, um I have an answer to that. So, um [38:46] we did two different experiments in my [38:48] lab. One in um low-fit people, people [38:51] that are really not exercising very much [38:53] at all, less than 30 minutes um [38:56] um in the last three three weeks you [38:58] you've moved your body. And um we asked [39:02] what could we see any behavioral [39:05] improvement in your memory function from [39:07] your hippocampus or your uh ability to [39:09] shift and focus attention if we ask you [39:12] to move your body in aerobic way for two [39:15] to three times a week. And we [39:17] collaborated with a spin class, so [39:19] clearly very aerobic. And what we found [39:22] was [39:23] in those people that did successfully do [39:26] two to three times a week of 45-minute [39:28] aerobic activity, [39:30] their mood got significantly better, [39:33] their memory function got better, and [39:36] their ability to shift and focus [39:37] attention got significantly better. So, [39:40] that gives a little bit of a guideline [39:42] for low-fit people, two to three times a [39:44] week can start to give you some of those [39:47] some of those cognitive changes. But, [39:50] you don't look low-fit. So, let me let [39:52] me answer the question you're about to [39:53] ask me. You're like, "What about me? I I [39:55] exercise pretty regularly." And um how [39:58] much how much do I need? So, to answer [40:01] that question, we went to another spin [40:03] studio, and we said, "Look, we're going [40:04] to give you free classes. You could [40:07] exercise as much as you want in this in [40:09] this um [40:10] at this studio, and uh um go up to seven [40:14] times a week." And the control was just [40:17] stay the same. You know, you they were [40:18] they were working out twice a week at at [40:20] the studio. [40:21] Control was the other group that were [40:22] you testing them against? [40:23] Yes, exactly. [40:25] And so what we found was [40:28] basically every drop of sweat counted. [40:31] The more you exercise, the more change [40:34] in your brain we noted. Both your [40:36] hippocampal function, prefrontal cortex [40:37] function, and mood. [40:40] If you you you were already getting [40:41] benefit, you know, you're already going [40:43] twice a week. But the more you did, the [40:46] more brain changes you got. So, that [40:49] that doesn't give the formula that I [40:51] would like, but we were heading in that [40:53] direction, which is part of one of the [40:55] questions that I want to answer. But I [40:57] love to leave people with the idea that [41:00] every drop of sweat counts for building [41:03] your brain into the big fat fluffy brain [41:05] that you really want. [41:08] And then in the real world, [41:10] again making it super um [41:12] real for people. [41:13] Yeah. [41:14] How how does that change how I show up? [41:16] Yeah. [41:17] If you allow it to, should have a [41:20] beautiful effect on your mindset. [41:22] Um that your mindset around um [41:27] how often should I take wake up [41:30] 30 minutes early and do that walk before [41:33] I start my day or accept the the [41:36] invitation to go walk the dog with with [41:39] a neighbor. It's not an obligation. It [41:42] is something that you're doing for [41:44] yourself. It is going to have direct [41:46] benefits on that ball of tofu as you [41:48] call it in your head. It's going to make [41:51] it work better. And and I mean, I think [41:54] the most immediate thing that I benefit [41:56] from every single day is the mood boost [41:59] that you get from that serotonin, [42:01] dopamine, norepinephrine that gets [42:02] released every time you move your body. [42:04] I always think that cuz obviously I do a [42:05] little podcasting and it's I'm super [42:07] reliant on my brain being attached to my [42:09] mouth and sometimes I notice that it's [42:11] not. You know what I mean? Like [42:12] sometimes I'm not articulate, I can't [42:13] get my thoughts together, whatever. [42:14] Yes. And I always try I've tried to [42:16] figure out the correlation between what [42:17] I did that day when I have a good day [42:19] versus a bad day. And I've from from [42:22] your And also I speak on stage [42:23] sometimes, so I've often asked myself [42:25] cuz I saw Tony Robbins, the speaker, one [42:28] day on a trampoline before he goes up on [42:30] stage. I asked myself, okay, should I be [42:33] doing a workout in my green room before [42:35] I go up on stage for a big talk or [42:37] presentation? [42:38] You think I should? [42:38] Oh yeah, absolutely. [42:40] What's the basis of that in science and [42:41] neuroscience? [42:42] Uh it's the basis is that immediate So [42:45] there's three key effects that we know [42:47] happen every time you move your body. [42:49] First one is mood, you're going to get [42:51] your dopamine, your serotonin up. Um [42:53] second is focus and attention. So So a [42:57] single workout isn't going to make more [42:59] synapses in your prefrontal cortex, but [43:01] the prefrontal cortex uses dopamine. And [43:04] so um it's clear that even a single [43:07] workout can make your prefrontal cortex [43:09] work better in terms of focus, [43:10] attention. Also very important anytime [43:12] you're speaking. And the third is [43:14] reaction time. Your reaction time it you [43:16] know, motor your your your working your [43:18] motor cortex when you move your body and [43:21] your response and reaction time is [43:24] significantly shorter after a even a [43:27] single workout compared to if you just [43:29] don't work out and sit sit um alone. So [43:33] great great things to do. A great thing [43:35] to do before you you stand up and speak. [43:37] What about [43:39] coffee? [43:42] I I I'm trying to figure out if coffee [43:44] is good for my brain, bad for my brain. [43:46] I've had a couple of mixed messages [43:48] around [43:49] the impact it might be having. [43:51] Yeah. [43:52] You know, caffeine is a stimulant and uh [43:55] people respond to that kind of stimulant [43:57] uh in different ways. Overstimulation [44:00] with caffeine is is not good for your [44:02] your ability to put words together. You [44:05] know, this is where I turn to uh [44:08] a main theme in in my book Healthy Brain [44:11] Happy Life with this which is [44:12] self-experimentation. [44:14] For you, how what can you titrate your [44:18] coffee to see what level of coffee is [44:21] best for whatever your podcast or you're [44:24] giving a talk. The other thing that can [44:26] work similarly to coffee that that I've [44:30] started and that I do every morning is [44:33] hot cold contrast showers because that [44:36] cold that you [44:38] shower on yourself after the heat [44:41] stimulates adrenaline in you. A natural [44:44] adrenaline. [44:45] It wakes you up and okay, it was painful [44:48] the first kind of few times I tried it, [44:51] but then you get addicted to it and I [44:53] have forgotten to do it and gotten back [44:56] in the shower just to douse myself with [44:59] cold water because I feel better when I [45:02] do that for for you know, first thing in [45:04] the morning. So, lots of different [45:06] things that one can explore with. [45:09] Okay, on the other side of the coin [45:10] then, what are some of the central [45:12] behaviors that people do that destroy [45:14] their brain? [45:17] Well, sedentary behavior is one of them. [45:21] Um, not getting enough sleep [45:23] is critical. We haven't talked about [45:25] sleep yet. Sleep is so important for [45:28] normal functioning of the brain. I like [45:31] to scare my students by saying that um, [45:34] you know, in torture situations, if you [45:36] deprive a person of sleep for too long, [45:39] they literally die. They they they die. [45:41] You cannot function if you are deprived [45:44] of sleep for too many hours in a row. [45:47] It's that critical. Yet, we don't we we [45:49] happily you know, watch too much Netflix [45:51] at night and and and and get only 5 [45:53] hours of sleep when we could have had [45:55] eight. So, what's happening exactly? Why [45:58] is it so important? Well, there's [46:01] there's so many different things. I'm [46:02] going to I'm going to say two. One is [46:04] that we know that in regular [46:08] um healthy sleep there is activity in [46:11] the hippocampus that helps you [46:13] strengthen the memories that you have [46:15] formed in that previous day. It's called [46:17] consolidation and it's so important. If [46:20] you shorten that, if you don't get [46:21] enough, you are not consolidating your [46:24] normal everyday memories. And second, it [46:27] is the time during sleep when all the [46:31] metabolites, all that garbage that your [46:33] brain is producing because all [46:35] biological cells produce garbage, it [46:38] gets kind of cleaned up through the [46:41] cerebral spinal fluid that that is [46:42] flowing through your brain. And if you [46:45] do not get enough sleep, you build up [46:47] garbage metabolites in your brain. It's [46:49] like you have a gunky brain. And do you [46:51] feel like I feel like I have gunk in my [46:53] brain when I don't sleep enough. That is [46:55] exactly what is what is happening. [46:58] Well, when you think about things that [46:59] we consume, you know, like food and [47:02] drink and alcohol and all these kinds of [47:04] things. Is there is there anything that [47:06] if I'm trying to have an optimal brain, [47:07] I should be [47:08] Yeah. [47:08] having or not having? [47:10] Yeah. Well, so um [47:12] I think the most evidence is around the [47:16] benefit of the Mediterranean diet, which [47:20] is basically all healthy [47:23] kind of organ not organic, but [47:25] non-processed is the word I was trying [47:27] to think of things to eat that are very, [47:30] very colorful. [47:31] There is so much evidence about how good [47:34] that is generally for the brain. That [47:37] that is my go-to. Like what what should [47:40] I eat? Well, is it on the Mediterranean [47:42] diet? If it is, then go ahead. If it's [47:44] too processed, [47:45] only do it. Just a little bit. [47:48] Is it true that if we have less friends, [47:50] if we have less strong relationships, if [47:52] we're lonely, then our brain will shrink [47:55] and is more prone to dementia and [47:58] Alzheimer's and things like that. [47:59] Yes, we are social creatures and um [48:03] there are uh really powerful studies [48:06] that have shown the correlation between [48:08] the number of social connections that we [48:10] have, including just saying hello to the [48:12] barista at Starbucks. It's not a close [48:16] friendship that you develop over 30 [48:18] years. It's It's just how many people [48:20] you interact with and greet and [48:22] longevity. The more people you are [48:25] regularly interacting with, the longer [48:28] you are living. Overall longevity. But [48:31] if you go into brain health, absolutely [48:33] it's also very very healthy for you. It [48:36] also brings happiness. So uh friend and [48:40] colleague of mine um Robert Waldinger uh [48:42] studied um what makes people happy. The [48:45] study started in the '20s, the 1920s at [48:48] in in Harvard. And after all of those [48:51] many many many decades, the answer is [48:55] what brings happiness is the strength of [48:57] your social connections. So, it makes [48:59] you happier, it makes you live longer, [49:01] and and uh yes, loneliness on the on the [49:04] um flip side [49:05] causes stress, uh long-term stress that [49:08] that damages the brain and uh yeah, in [49:11] the long term can can make it smaller [49:13] and uh less healthy. [49:15] Do you have any brain routines? Like any [49:17] like a morning routine for your brain? [49:19] Absolutely. So, every morning I like to [49:21] wake up and I do a um [49:24] tea meditation, which is a meditation [49:27] over the brewing and drinking of tea. [49:29] And this is after many years of yo-yo [49:31] meditating. I knew meditation was good, [49:34] but I just couldn't really get into it [49:36] and um [49:37] I was introduced to this form of [49:39] meditation um from uh by a monk who who [49:43] invited me to tea and and just did this [49:46] silent meditation outside in a beautiful [49:49] location. And the ritual and the um [49:53] um the sequence of brewing, drinking, [49:56] seeping, [49:58] re- starting over again kind of kept me [50:01] in kept me in the flow. And so I start [50:03] with about a 45-minute tea meditation. [50:06] Then I do about a 30-minute workout. I [50:08] try and do cardio strength. Sometimes I [50:10] do yoga. Sometimes I just do mobility. [50:13] And then I have breakfast and then I go [50:15] to work. [50:16] Oh, and then I I do that heart hot cold [50:18] contrast shower is also something very [50:21] helpful for my brain health because it [50:23] it really does in me that adrenaline [50:26] boost that I get just energizes me and I [50:28] love that feeling at the beginning of [50:30] the day. [50:31] Just going back to that question cuz I [50:31] want to close off on it as well. The the [50:33] idea of what would I have to do to [50:34] destroy my brain. So, no sleep. [50:37] Yeah. [50:37] I'm going to be sedentary. [50:39] Yeah. [50:39] I'm going to have no friends. [50:41] Yeah. [50:42] And smoking? [50:44] Smoking is very bad for your health and [50:46] and your brain. [50:47] Okay. [50:48] Alcohol? [50:50] Alcohol, I mean, yes, long-term alcohol [50:52] can cause significant and named brain [50:56] diseases. [50:58] Moderation even moderation now as [51:00] studies have shown it is not very good. [51:01] And the reason why it's not good is that [51:04] alcohol disrupts your sleep. Even though [51:07] people drink it to to go to sleep [51:09] faster, the sleep is much more [51:12] superficial and is not deep and it's not [51:14] the healthy sleep. So, that is not good [51:18] overall for your for the for sleep depth [51:21] and and health and therefore brain [51:24] health. [51:25] I'm going to eat a processed diet to [51:27] hurt my brain. [51:28] And I'm not going to have a lifestyle [51:30] that is [51:32] novel. Because we talked about learning. [51:34] Right. [51:34] Yes. [51:35] not going to learn anything new. [51:36] All of these things should shrink that [51:38] little [51:40] You're not going to be mindful also. [51:42] Does mind Is that Is that evidence that [51:44] being mindful, which is like meditation [51:46] and being in the moment helps the brain. [51:48] It does. There's beautiful studies [51:51] showing brain plasticity [51:54] in the areas that are important for [51:57] focused attention. Meditation, the [51:59] practice of meditation is basically a [52:01] practice of [52:02] enriching the function of your [52:04] prefrontal cortex. So you can focus on [52:06] that object, either the breath or or [52:10] loving kindness is is a form of [52:12] meditation. So yes, there there's been [52:14] studies that brain changes occur in [52:18] long-term meditators that are that are [52:20] absolutely beneficial. [52:21] What if I'm on social media all the [52:22] time? [52:23] Because isn't that good for me because [52:25] I'm going to be seeing lots of new [52:26] things all the time and I'll be learning [52:27] lots of new things. So isn't if I sat on [52:29] a on a screen for 7 hours a day [52:33] is that good for my brain, social media? [52:35] Does that take you away from real people [52:37] and interacting with real people? [52:39] Yes. [52:40] Okay. Then then it's modulated by that. [52:43] There [52:43] the same thing? [52:44] There's a difference and I think your [52:45] brain knows it and [52:48] look, there's there's enormous amounts [52:50] of evidence showing that the increase in [52:53] use of social media [52:56] especially in young kids correlate with [52:59] huge increases in depression and anxiety [53:02] levels particularly in young girls. So [53:04] when [53:06] when kids started getting the [53:07] smartphones and started to spend more [53:10] and more 7 hours a day on social media, [53:13] that's when the anxiety and depression [53:15] went up. That's for young kids. I use [53:18] social media as well as a tool for [53:20] business. That is a little bit [53:22] different. I'm not 13 years old and [53:24] you're not 13 years old. So so you know, [53:26] there there's some warnings I think that [53:28] need to go into into that. But but let [53:31] me let me be clear. No, it's not the [53:33] same. Social media is not the same as [53:36] social interaction face-to-face with [53:39] people. [53:39] Are Are are you concerned about what [53:41] social media is doing to our brains? [53:43] Yes. [53:43] Cuz you know we I hear we hear those [53:45] stats around, you know, young young [53:46] girls are struggling most with social [53:48] media and we think to ourselves, well, [53:49] that's because there's a lot of like [53:50] comparison and all these kinds of things [53:53] and there's a lot of like toxic [53:54] messaging and such, but [53:57] if we think about the physiological [53:58] consequences of social media, what it's [54:00] actually doing to our brains at a [54:02] chemical level. [54:03] Yeah. [54:04] What what would you as a neuroscientist [54:06] guess is like is the physiological harm [54:09] to the brain? Not the sort of psycholo- [54:10] I'm thinking about like not the [54:11] psychological like, okay, oh my god, [54:12] she's more this than me, but like the [54:15] physiological harm. [54:16] But the psychological harm causes [54:19] stress. Stress releases stress hormone [54:22] that goes into the brain that at too [54:24] high and too constant a level can start [54:27] to first damage connections and then [54:29] kill cells. So it's it's intertwined [54:33] um there and that that is part of of [54:35] what is happening. Um you can't, you [54:38] know, pull one [54:39] one away from the other. [54:41] Cuz you know, we're social media is [54:43] designed to kind of It's like pulling [54:44] the slot machine handle. I pull down on [54:46] the feed and I get ping, oh look, [54:47] there's a nice picture and oh ping, [54:49] there's notifications and comments, etc. [54:51] It's that con- You know, I think about [54:53] the constant [54:54] They they say there's constant dopamine [54:56] hit. [54:56] Yeah. [54:57] to it. Is it a dopamine hit? Is that's [54:58] what's happening when we're being [54:59] stimulated by social media or a slot [55:01] machine? [55:01] Yes. [55:02] And is there Is there any harm in just a [55:04] constant dopamine hit all day every day? [55:06] Well, I would not I'm going to answer [55:08] that question by saying I would not want [55:11] to be addicted to gambling. [55:14] That gambling is addictive. It It's hard [55:16] to get away. You You You lose all these [55:19] other things that we just decided were [55:20] all good for you, including sleep, [55:22] including social connections, um [55:25] including exercise, and I think that's [55:27] part of what social media is doing for [55:29] our young kids is not good that they're [55:30] not [55:32] joining teams outside to be social and [55:35] interactive in uh in that [55:38] kind of now it seems like an [55:40] old-fashioned way, but it's very very [55:42] powerful way for development um and [55:45] brain health. [55:46] I think I'm addicted to my phone. [55:47] Mhm. [55:48] And I I often ask myself, is that is [55:51] that a problem? And from what you've [55:52] said, it sounds like the problem is what [55:54] I sacrifice [55:55] Yeah. [55:56] through that like addiction to that [55:57] device. [55:58] Yes. [55:58] Is that that the issue? The issue is I [56:00] sacrifice social connections, maybe [56:02] movement. [56:03] Yeah. [56:04] You know. Although I do work out every [56:05] day. [56:06] But the brain is smart enough to know [56:08] that there's no substitute for real [56:10] human connections. [56:11] Absolutely. [56:13] Absolutely. [56:14] And that's going to make me what? I'm [56:16] trying to I I need you to help me [56:20] Yeah. [56:20] scare me out of this [56:22] phone addiction that I think I have, but [56:23] I know many other people have as well. [56:26] So, that is going to limit your [56:29] potential for brain growth for for brain [56:32] plasticity. It is going to limit your [56:36] possibility for for, you know, [56:40] not to be dramatic, but joy in in your [56:42] life. There's different kinds of joy [56:43] that you have in in real [56:46] person-to-person social interactions [56:49] that it feels pretty good on social [56:51] media if you get lots of likes and, you [56:53] know, um but it's not the same. And um [56:57] I would I would say that to scare [57:00] yourself out you're going to have to [57:03] bite the bullet and do a 2-week phone [57:07] detox. [57:08] What would that do to you? How would you [57:10] feel? [57:12] I just could never imagine such a thing. [57:14] Well. [57:15] Which is a real shame, isn't it, really? [57:16] Cuz I just think about like my ancestors [57:18] and my parents, they must [57:19] they must think I'm so strange, but it's [57:21] just the just the way that like when my [57:23] phone dies, I'm like there's like [57:26] I'm like nervously waiting for it to [57:27] come back on. I'm like staring at it [57:29] like, "Oh my god, like Like, am I going [57:30] to do with myself?" Like, [57:32] uh [57:33] and I remember those studies they did on [57:34] people where they gave them the choice [57:37] of either sitting alone with their own [57:39] thoughts or giving themselves an [57:40] electric shock, and a huge amount of [57:42] people in that study actually would [57:43] rather give themselves an electric shock [57:46] than just sit alone with their thoughts [57:47] because it's some kind of stimulation. [57:49] That's kind of how I think I am now. [57:51] Like, I don't know what I'd do without [57:52] my phone. It's really sad. I know [57:54] there's people listening to me now that [57:55] think I'm an absolute like I'm really [57:57] sad, but it's just the naked It's the [57:58] truth, you know? And [58:01] um I do wonder what it's doing to my [58:02] brain, but I think you're right. I think [58:03] it's actually what it's doing to my like [58:05] my life. [58:06] Yeah. [58:07] The joy, the connections, the [58:09] being being there to experience things, [58:11] and um [58:12] I mean, that point that you made is a [58:15] very profound one. [58:17] Um the the not wanting to be alone with [58:21] your thoughts [58:22] is the core of meditation. Can you be [58:26] alone with your thoughts and focus on [58:28] something [58:30] something organic, usually the breath, [58:32] but also a thought like loving kindness. [58:35] Um that is a very powerful practice to [58:38] do, and it and it's hard. I find it [58:39] hard, too. Um [58:41] and I actually I notice I find it harder [58:43] when I'm [58:45] when I'm using social media and when I'm [58:47] using my phone more. Um [58:50] but I feel most creative [58:52] and most imaginative when I do practice [58:56] that. That is, being alone with my [58:58] thoughts. What comes into mind? Um how [59:02] how does my own imagination work, which [59:05] is very much dependent on the [59:07] hippocampus as well. It's putting [59:08] together all these things in your memory [59:11] in new and interesting ways that are [59:13] unique for you or unique for me. And it [59:16] doesn't work the same if you are [59:18] stimulating your brain with social media [59:20] all the time. [59:21] You um I mean, you wrote a book that [59:23] kind of speaks to some what we're [59:23] talking about here. You wrote a book [59:24] about anxiety. [59:25] Yes, I did. [59:26] In 2021. Yeah, I think the the US [59:29] version's called Good Anxiety, isn't it? [59:31] Slightly different title in the US in [59:32] the UK. [59:33] Yeah. [59:34] Why did you write a book about anxiety? [59:36] I wrote a book about anxiety because I [59:38] started to notice my students [59:42] getting much more anxious than they ever [59:43] used to be. [59:44] And this was before the pandemic. I [59:47] mean, I I I had the idea to write this [59:49] book in [59:51] 2018, 2019. [59:53] And [59:55] so first I noticed it in the students. [59:56] They were getting so stressed out before [59:58] finals. They never did that before. So [60:00] so many accommodations they were asking [60:02] for. [60:03] And I'm like, "What's going on here?" [60:05] But then I realized it wasn't just them. [60:07] Like I'm getting more anxious as well. [60:09] My friends are more anxious. And I [60:11] really wanted to dive into that. I [60:13] didn't want to be anxious in that way. [60:16] Uh cuz part of me was like, "Oh, I'm [60:18] just a New Yorker. I'm I'm just anxious [60:19] all the time, right?" Cuz that's what [60:20] New Yorkers are. No, [60:23] this has changed. And we forget that [60:25] before the pandemic, there was there was [60:27] still global warming warming. There was [60:29] still political issues that that lots of [60:30] people, including me and all of my [60:32] students, were worried about. [60:35] And that was the impetus for for trying [60:38] to dive in and ask, "Well, [60:40] I made my life happier with exercise. [60:43] What What is the approach when it's [60:45] anxiety? And not clinical anxiety. I did [60:48] not have clinical anxiety. And the vast [60:49] majority of my students didn't have [60:51] clinical anxiety. They had what I called [60:53] everyday anxiety. Just worried about the [60:56] things that are going on in the world. [60:58] And there were just more things to be [60:59] worried about." [61:00] Is that normal? Is that human? [61:02] That is human, absolutely. [61:03] But is it human in the [61:06] in is the quantity in which we [61:07] experience it human? [61:10] Uh I think it is. I mean [61:12] Cuz I think about my ancestors. I go, [61:13] they they probably I don't know. I [61:15] always imagine my ancestors kind of I [61:16] don't know, just chilling. [61:18] Do you know like I've got [61:18] But they didn't have they didn't have [61:20] global warming where the ocean is about [61:22] to, you know, get sucked up in plastic [61:25] and and the the ozone is going to come [61:27] come down. No worries like that at all. [61:30] But but the everyday anxiety for me is [61:32] like emails. [61:34] And WhatsApp. [61:35] Well, by everyday anxiety I mean the [61:38] anxiety that people are feeling today [61:41] that is not at the clinical level. So, [61:43] all the things that we just men- [61:45] mentioned, global warming and wars in [61:47] multiple places in the world, all of [61:49] that contributes to the higher level of [61:52] anxiety. And your ancestors and mine [61:55] went through two world wars. [61:57] But and that was anxiety provoking, no [61:59] question about it. But they weren't also [62:02] all the other things that were um [62:05] you know, contributing to it including [62:07] the higher than, you know, extremely [62:10] high anxiety and suicide levels of our [62:13] young people [62:14] that are, you know, that strongly linked [62:17] to social media. So, that's that's [62:19] another element. [62:20] What did you find then when you started [62:21] uncovering and trying to go on this [62:23] search of figuring out, you know, the [62:25] the nature of anxiety and what we can do [62:27] about it? Did you first find that your [62:29] writing your hypothesis that it is [62:31] increasing? [62:32] Yeah. [62:32] Yeah, that was [62:34] Do you know how much? [62:36] Um you know, it it shifted over the time [62:38] that I wrote and published the book [62:40] because I started in 2018 and then it [62:42] was published in the middle of the [62:44] pandemic in 2021 where anxiety levels [62:47] went up approximately 20% [62:50] worldwide. [62:51] So, um [62:53] but the social media anxiety, um that is [62:56] going up in girls even more than 20%. Um [62:59] that's kind of in parallel. So, I I I [63:01] actually don't know how to um integrate [63:03] those two levels, but they're both going [63:06] in the same direction. [63:06] Why are women, young women, becoming [63:11] more anxious and suicidality amongst [63:13] that age group is [63:15] rapidly increased. [63:17] You know, I think that um it's it's that [63:21] comparison that that is so easy to do [63:24] and I see it in my own work at the [63:27] university that [63:29] when I was going to college, I had no [63:30] idea what rank I was in in number in the [63:34] application, but they could see that [63:36] immediately. They know exactly what [63:38] number they are in each and every class [63:39] they take in their whole high school [63:41] class in the in their application to to [63:45] the five schools that they applied to or [63:47] 10 or 15 now that they're applying to. [63:50] That gives a much higher level of stress [63:53] when you know those numbers immediately. [63:56] Um that we never had. So so there are [63:58] stresses like that that that um they're [64:01] they're experiencing. [64:02] More information. [64:03] Yeah. [64:03] More [64:05] It's funny cuz more social connection, [64:07] but it's I want to say social [64:08] connection, I don't mean real world [64:10] social connection. I mean more followers [64:11] and likes and [64:13] Yes. [64:13] that can message me and tell me [64:14] something and DM me or comment on my [64:16] thing. [64:17] Right. [64:17] More noise. [64:18] Yeah. [64:19] The volume has increased, which is seems [64:20] to be driving more anxiety. Where do we [64:22] experience anxiety? Where from a [64:24] physiological standpoint, where is [64:26] anxiety? Cuz it feels like it's in your [64:28] chest. [64:28] Yeah. [64:29] So anxiety is kind of a full body [64:32] experience and um anxiety is um [64:37] strongly linked with the stress [64:39] response. So um an anxiety-provoking [64:42] situation, you you um [64:45] meet somebody that you uh you know, had [64:47] a big fight with before. Oh, I'm [64:49] anxious. I might have to speak to that [64:51] person before. Uh that [64:54] launches that launches the stress [64:56] response [64:58] um that is um dependent on what's called [65:01] the sympathetic nervous system. And so [65:03] this is where it becomes full body. So [65:05] what happens when your fight or flight [65:08] system is activated? Your heart rate [65:09] goes up. Your respiration goes up. Your [65:12] um irises get get bigger so you can see [65:14] everything and look out for that that [65:16] annoying person that you're worried [65:17] about. And blood is shunted from your [65:20] digestion and reproduc- reproductive [65:22] organs towards your muscles so you can [65:24] fight or run away. That's what all of [65:26] our ancestors evolved to protect us from [65:30] not [65:31] not the social media post, but [65:34] the lion or the tiger that could come [65:36] and attack us. So it made sense for that [65:39] kind of stressor or that kind of threat. [65:42] Unfortunately, our bodies do the same [65:45] exact thing when the nasty DM comes in [65:49] from somebody I wasn't sure who it is, [65:50] but they're saying something really bad [65:52] about something I care about a lot. And [65:54] we get this stress response, we get [65:56] anxious because of that. And somebody [65:59] asked me, "Does that mean our brain is [66:00] not very smart?" And the answer is our [66:03] our our stress and our threat system is [66:05] not very smart. It isn't differentiating [66:07] between the lion that could physically [66:09] kill us and the DM that might wound our [66:13] pride, [66:14] but but will not kill us. But it causes [66:17] the same kind of [66:19] stress response and anxiety response. [66:22] What do I do about that? [66:23] You have to learn how to turn the volume [66:26] of your own anxiety down. And part of [66:29] that is I'm not saying you have to not [66:31] look at your DMs and not look at or not [66:33] look at social social media. There's [66:35] lots of ways to turn your anxiety down. [66:38] We've already talked about some of those [66:41] approaches. Exercise immediately [66:44] decreases anxiety and depression levels. [66:46] And there, you don't even have to get [66:48] aerobic. 10 minutes of walking can [66:51] significantly decrease your anxiety and [66:53] depression levels. That is a powerful [66:55] tool that everybody can use right right [66:58] here right now. [66:59] Breath meditation. Did you know that [67:02] breath meditation, that is deep [67:04] breathing, [67:05] um [67:06] is the oldest form of meditation. Why? [67:10] Because equal and opposite to that fight [67:12] or flight response that everybody seems [67:14] to know about is the rest and digest [67:17] part of your nervous system called the [67:19] parasympathetic nervous system that [67:21] calms you down. It slows your heart rate [67:24] down, slows your respiration rate down, [67:26] and shuts blood from your muscles [67:28] towards your digestion and reproductive [67:30] organs so that you can do those weekend [67:33] rest and digest kinds of things. [67:35] Well, [67:37] everybody should be asking, "Well, do I [67:39] have that system?" Yes, everybody has [67:41] that system. Everybody has a [67:42] parasympathetic nervous system. How do I [67:44] activate that? The best and most [67:46] effective way that you can activate that [67:48] right now is take three deep breaths [67:51] because that's the only thing you have [67:53] conscious control over that can launch [67:56] all the rest of that parasympathetic [67:58] activity slowing your heart rate. I [67:59] can't slow my heart rate by thinking [68:01] about it. Can I take three deep, slow [68:04] breaths right now? Absolutely. And monks [68:07] hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago [68:09] realized that. That is the thing that I [68:11] can do immediately to slow my slow my [68:15] stress response down. It's very, very [68:17] powerful. [68:18] Sadness. [68:19] Sadness. [68:21] Sadness is um [68:23] can be linked with anxiety and um [68:28] you know, sadness like anxiety is [68:30] something that people [68:31] I think would like to kick out of their [68:33] lives and just never have any more [68:37] at all. If I could get rid of sadness [68:39] and anxiety, I would be the happiest [68:40] person alive. [68:42] But would you? [68:44] Because my argument in good anxiety, my [68:46] book Good Anxiety, is that [68:49] these prickly emotions, these difficult [68:51] emotions, like anxiety, like sadness, [68:56] are really, really valuable because [68:57] they're they're focusing us on things [69:00] that we should be paying attention to. [69:02] Specifically, anxiety. It is a warning [69:04] system. Oh, there's that person. Oh, you [69:06] didn't have a good interaction. You you [69:08] need to pay attention. Now, should it [69:11] throw you into a an anxiety attack? [69:14] Perhaps not. Use some of these [69:15] techniques. Um like like deep breathing [69:18] and and going for a walk. But it is a [69:20] warning system. And [69:23] why is this valuable? Here's why it's [69:25] valuable. It's valuable because when you [69:28] know what [69:30] you are worried about, your fears that [69:33] your anxiety focuses you on, it actually [69:36] tells you about what you hold most dear [69:40] in your life. And that is something that [69:42] we should all [69:44] really want to know. So, if you're a [69:46] people pleaser, [69:47] um you are doing lots of things to maybe [69:50] too many things to please people, but [69:53] that means that you care about [69:57] personal interaction. And I start with [69:58] this one because I'm a people pleaser. [70:00] And I realized that people-pleasing [70:03] response and the anxiety that it does [70:06] evoke is reminding me that what's very [70:10] very valuable to me is that interaction [70:12] with people. I care about that. That's a [70:15] beautiful thing. I value that in my [70:18] life, in my personality. [70:21] I'm going to let you in on a little [70:22] secret. What is in The Diary of a CEO [70:25] cup? This cup that sits in front of me [70:27] when I interview these people, sometimes [70:29] for 3 hours, and sometimes three people [70:31] a day. And the answer is this, Huel. I [70:33] invested in the company on Dragon's Den, [70:36] and since then they've gone from an idea [70:38] to the fastest-growing energy drink in [70:41] the UK. It is a matcha energy drink, and [70:44] it is absolutely delicious. But that's [70:46] not why I choose to drink it on this [70:47] podcast. The reason I choose to drink it [70:49] is because it gives me what I call [70:51] all-day energy. I don't get the same [70:53] crashes that I used to get with other [70:54] energy drinks. If you're in the middle [70:56] of a conversation, or you're in the [70:57] middle of a talk on stage, or in the [70:58] board room, the last thing you want to [71:00] do is have a crash. You don't want [71:02] jitters, and you need focus. And that is [71:05] why they now sponsor this podcast. Not [71:07] only is it delicious, but it gives me a [71:09] significant competitive advantage. If [71:11] you haven't tried it, go down to a [71:12] Tesco, go to a Waitrose, or go online [71:15] and use the code diary10 at checkout, [71:18] and you'll get 10% off. And when you do [71:19] try it, let me know how you get on. [71:22] Do you think we could see love in the [71:24] brain? Can you see if someone's in love [71:25] in the brain? [71:26] If we scan the brain of someone that's [71:28] in love when they're interacting with [71:29] their partner, could we see that? [71:31] Um yes, in fact, they have scanned [71:33] people who are in the throws of of uh um [71:37] romantic love, and people that are in um [71:41] you know, many years into a loving [71:44] relationship. [71:45] And there are uh lots of reward areas [71:49] that get activated when you're scanning [71:50] the brain um of somebody that that, you [71:53] know, is in the throws of deep romantic [71:55] love, that is in the first few weeks. [71:57] You can't get enough of the person, [71:58] you're with them all the time, you can't [71:59] stop thinking about them. A lot of the [72:02] reward areas are are activated. Uh a lot [72:05] of the social interaction areas, [72:08] including the insula, uh a part of the [72:10] brain right in the side here, just just [72:13] uh [72:13] in the uh area near the ear, deep into [72:16] the cortex, get gets activated. [72:19] Doesn't that mean then that if we don't [72:21] fall in love, if we don't have those [72:22] feelings, [72:23] that that part of our brain might [72:24] shrink? Because if, you know, they say [72:26] often things like [72:28] you you use it or you lose it. They say [72:30] neurons that fire together, wire [72:32] together. If I'm not in love, if I'm not [72:33] if I don't have those social [72:34] connections, will the love part of my [72:36] brain get smaller? [72:37] And would that make it more difficult to [72:39] love in the future? [72:41] That's a great question. I think that um [72:44] that study has not been done, but [72:46] absolutely, if uh [72:48] uh if you don't use that part of the [72:50] brain, um you will not, you know, gain [72:53] the function. And so, yeah, not not [72:56] using your love part of your brain is is [72:58] not a nothing that I would ever [73:00] recommend. [73:01] Some people, I guess, don't have a [73:02] choice. Well, [73:04] I guess they have a [73:07] choice [73:08] in the sense that they can do things. [73:09] They have optionality, but [73:12] for whatever reason, some people don't [73:13] find love. It's just an interesting [73:14] observation because in all other parts [73:15] of the brain, you have to like [73:16] Do you mean romantic love? [73:18] Romantic love, yeah. [73:19] But but you know, there's all sorts of [73:21] different kinds of love. Deep [73:23] friendship, um, it's actually what I was [73:26] going to say is that, um, [73:28] they tried to look at the difference [73:30] between romantic love and maternal love [73:34] or paternal love. And it turns out that [73:37] long-term relationships, like [73:39] romantic relationships of marriages that [73:41] last for many years, start out, of [73:43] course, in this romantic phase. But it [73:46] turns into more of a maternal, paternal, [73:51] um, pattern [73:53] when you go farther and farther along. [73:56] That that is a win. That is not [73:58] something wrong with your brain. Um, I [74:00] think love does evolve over time, and [74:03] there's many different kinds of love [74:05] beyond the romantic Hollywood [74:09] you know, uh, and Disney kind of, uh, [74:11] uh, form of love. [74:13] So, you can see the honeymoon phase in [74:14] the brain. [74:15] Yes. [74:15] And then you can see the more [74:17] mature love, I guess. [74:18] Yes. [74:19] In the brain. Interesting. [74:21] Oh, the I guess the the opposite of love [74:25] I guess might be hate, but I think when [74:28] another sort of thing that people might [74:30] think of is [74:31] the opposite of love would be rejection [74:33] or heartbreak. And through all of our [74:35] lives, we encounter heartbreak in many [74:37] forms. We encounter romantic heartbreak, [74:39] but also other forms of heartbreak. As I [74:41] read through your story, I I I I could [74:43] see moments in your story where [74:45] you encountered various types of [74:46] heartbreak. [74:47] Yes. Grief. [74:48] Yeah. [74:48] You talked about your father passing [74:50] away from [74:51] Alzheimer's. [74:52] Yes. Well, he had a heart attack. He had [74:55] Alzheimer's dementia when he passed [74:57] away. He he died of a heart attack. [75:00] And just 3 months after your dad's [75:01] death, your younger brother died of an [75:03] unexpected heart attack age 50. [75:05] Yes. [75:06] And you say in your book Good Anxiety in [75:08] chapter 4, you say the death was [75:10] unfathomable. [75:11] Yeah. [75:13] As someone who studied the brain and [75:15] therefore has a really strong [75:17] understanding of the physiology [75:20] of the human mind and has also [75:23] written a book about anxiety, so you [75:25] have this sort of sort of two-pronged [75:26] approach towards understanding feelings [75:28] and emotions. [75:28] Yeah. [75:30] In those moments, [75:32] what did you come to understand about [75:34] the nature of emotion, the most intense [75:37] emotions, and how how they captivate us [75:39] and how we can find our path through the [75:41] jungle? [75:43] Yeah, I like that word that I used. It [75:45] was unfathomable. [75:48] Um um [75:51] both of those losses at at the same [75:53] time, it was hard to process. And I [75:56] remember the waves of grief that would [75:59] come over. It wasn't constant. It was [76:00] like it it would it would it would be [76:02] like waves. So I I have one and then it [76:04] would recede and I felt a little bit [76:06] better. But then unexpectedly it would [76:08] come come again. [76:09] And um [76:11] I'd never [76:12] thank goodness experienced that before. [76:16] And um it was in the middle of writing [76:18] the book Good Anxiety and I I put it [76:20] aside uh cuz I couldn't write when I was [76:24] going through this this terrible grief [76:26] and and I had to do something that I'd [76:28] never ever had to do and actually was my [76:31] biggest fear. Um unnamed biggest fear in [76:35] my life was um [76:37] to have to give a eulogy. I I [76:40] have a fear of [76:43] uncontrollable crying in public and I'd [76:45] always been afraid of of eulogies and [76:48] well, I never had to [76:49] give a eulogy and I had to give this [76:52] eulogy for my for my brother. [76:55] Um, another unfathomable how could that [76:57] be happening? [77:00] And um, [77:02] I I got I got through that and um, [77:07] I learned something in the process and I [77:09] remember [77:11] working out to try and make myself feel [77:13] feel better during this time and um, the [77:17] instructor said [77:19] about the workout with great pain [77:22] comes great wisdom. [77:25] And I just glommed on to that [77:28] that message [77:30] cuz I was feeling great pain. What was [77:32] the wisdom? Like, I need to find some [77:34] wisdom. What what is that wisdom? [77:37] And I realized [77:39] cuz I just say something at this eulogy [77:41] that the wisdom was that on the other [77:45] side of that unfathomable grief that I [77:48] was feeling the only reason why I was [77:51] feeling that unfathomable grief is [77:54] because of the deep love that I had that [77:56] it started with. [77:58] So, if I didn't love them as much, I [78:00] wouldn't have as deep a grief. So, in [78:02] fact [78:04] the grief and the the the depth of it [78:08] was a sign [78:10] of the love that I had for them. [78:14] And that [78:16] that was the wisdom that I found and [78:18] that was the solace that I found and [78:20] that was a message that I gave [78:22] in [78:23] that eulogy. [78:25] And um, [78:26] and then I became obsessed with [78:29] the flip side of these [78:31] awful emotions that we all go through. [78:33] Grief is this one. [78:36] Because I had to go back and finish this [78:37] book, Good Anxiety. I was like, "I'm [78:39] going to do that." [78:41] The book was transformed by that event [78:44] because I realized that if I could find [78:46] the wisdom and the [78:49] the power [78:51] um [78:52] of the most horrible emotion, I'm going [78:55] to say, grief. [78:57] What is the flip side of anxiety? [78:59] What is the gift? What is the superpower [79:01] that comes from anxiety? And I needed to [79:05] find gifts and superpowers. [79:07] And that's why the book got written in [79:09] that way. And I I name superpowers that [79:13] come from anxiety. That was That was [79:16] heightened after after this terrible [79:19] event. [79:20] But I found them and I use them all the [79:23] time. It was therapeutic, actually. [79:26] How did it change you, the loss of your [79:27] brother and your father in such a short [79:29] period of time? How are you a different [79:30] person because of [79:32] those two events? [79:34] You realize that [79:37] everybody's going to [79:38] feel these emotions sometime in their [79:42] life. [79:44] And [79:46] I can [79:48] bring more empathy and compassion [79:50] to those experience for others. [79:53] And I I remember I I never wanted to [79:56] talk to people [79:57] that had a loss. I never knew what to [79:59] say. I knew I was going to say something [80:01] wrong. I just had no idea. I felt lost. [80:06] And um [80:08] and it is I do feel wiser. I feel like I [80:11] have more [80:13] empathy. I have more knowledge. [80:17] Can I ask you a question? If If If there [80:19] was a pill [80:20] Yeah. [80:21] that you could take [80:23] to [80:24] not feel the grief. [80:27] In the moment when you were [80:29] in the throes of that grief, would you [80:31] have taken it? And [80:34] in hindsight now, [80:35] Mhm. [80:36] would you have taken it? [80:38] I look I I know. [80:39] I'm not a [80:41] pill taker. I [80:43] I wasn't clinically [80:45] I didn't feel like I'm oh, I can't, you [80:47] know, [80:48] go about my life. It it it it was [80:51] it was a terrible emotion, but I I [80:53] didn't feel completely debilitated with [80:56] it. Other other people do. Maybe they [80:58] would take the pill. I would not take [80:59] the pill. And after [81:03] the lessons that I learned from going [81:05] through those emotions, absolutely, I [81:07] would not take the pill. And and that [81:09] was part of the lesson of writing this [81:12] book, that anxiety [81:15] is critical for us, because anxiety and [81:19] sadness and and anger [81:22] are critical [81:24] to help us appreciate those joyous [81:28] moments if of our lives. If we had no [81:30] grief, no sadness, no anger ever, [81:35] then every day would, you know, it would [81:37] just be mundane. But it gives that [81:40] value. I mean, our highest highs are [81:43] extra high because we know those lows. [81:46] And and that also is probably how this [81:49] grief that I experienced affects me. I I [81:52] appreciate I appreciate that the good [81:54] times even more. [81:56] As a neuroscientist who understands the [81:58] brain and the systems and then sort of [82:00] neural pathways and all this stuff and [82:01] how we think and [82:04] does that leave much room for [82:05] spirituality [82:07] and [82:08] those kinds of things? Are you [82:10] spiritual? [82:11] I am. [82:12] And what does what You know, cuz when [82:13] some people think about spirituality, [82:15] they think [82:16] it they think it's the opposite of [82:19] neuroscience. [82:20] They think Yes. If I spoke to some [82:22] people, some people that I know, they [82:23] think of [82:24] that the decisions and the feelings and [82:27] the energies are outside of our body, [82:29] not going on in this ball of tofu. [82:30] Mhm. [82:31] And then some like hardcore [82:33] people, scientists, will ex- will [82:35] explain all of our experience through [82:37] this ball of tofu. [82:38] Yes. [82:39] Where do you sit? [82:40] So, um I've evolved over time. So, um [82:43] when I was a young scientist, [82:46] I no spirituality, no religion, [82:49] everything can be described by science. [82:52] Like I have to prove it. Prove it to me. [82:54] I want to, you know, see the data. [82:58] I happily went through um [83:00] that phase for many, many years of my [83:02] life until I realized or I didn't even [83:06] realize. [83:08] I think I needed something more in in my [83:11] life. And and then I realized [83:15] first it was a need. There was a Then [83:17] there was a realization, well, [83:19] can I really prove that [83:22] the only thing that is true is that what [83:26] I [83:27] what I can prove. [83:29] What if there are things beyond [83:31] um proving in the [83:33] in the scientific method. [83:36] And I think there are things that uh in [83:39] the spiritual realm, in the religious [83:41] realm, um [83:43] that [83:45] absolutely could be true. [83:46] Could be true. [83:47] Could be true. That [83:49] cannot be solved, cannot be proven with [83:52] the classic scientific method. [83:54] Things that you believe? [83:55] Yes. [83:58] What makes you believe them? [83:59] Cuz on one hand you said you kind of [84:01] want to. [84:02] Mhm. [84:03] Which is an element of that. [84:04] Yeah. [84:04] But as a I'm interested as a scientist, [84:06] as a neuroscientist, [84:07] Yeah. [84:07] you must have been trained to be able to [84:09] explain. That's how you pass the exams. [84:11] You get You must be able to explain why [84:13] you have these beliefs. [84:14] Do you In that part of your life, do you [84:15] just kind of say [84:17] I've ex- I felt it. Is that the [84:20] No. It's uh Oh, well, part of it, yes. I [84:23] I I do feel it. But it was the [84:26] realization that the scientific method [84:31] in my opinion is not the end-all and [84:33] be-all that I thought it was when I was [84:35] a young scientist. Can you prove that [84:38] these other realms don't exist? [84:42] And if they exist in ways that cannot be [84:44] proved in in a scientific method, well, [84:47] maybe your scientific method is wrong. [84:49] Is that Is that a possibility? [84:51] Have you had an experience that made you [84:52] believe in another realm? [84:54] Have I had an experience? Um [84:57] I have [84:59] in my academic way [85:02] I have studied [85:06] texts that are [85:09] the oldest texts that we know, [85:12] uh the Bible, and I was raised in a [85:16] actually was a half Christian, half [85:17] Buddhist um family. And uh [85:21] but [85:22] my my [85:24] my core belief was [85:26] Christianity. And so, yeah, I I I I go [85:31] to church. I I really appreciate the [85:35] power [85:36] um that [85:38] that religious beliefs bring [85:42] to my life. It actually really decreases [85:45] my anxiety. [85:46] And that's not the only reason why I did [85:48] I just I wasn't look searching for an [85:49] anti-anxiety kind of um [85:53] uh solution. [85:55] But I was [85:57] looking for [86:04] maybe something more than [86:06] the scientific method in my life. [86:10] We're going in one direction as a [86:12] society, like more Yeah, I told you I'm [86:14] basically addicted to my phone. Screens, [86:16] loneliness. [86:17] Yeah. [86:18] Um less connection, less friends, less [86:20] people we can turn to in a time of [86:21] crisis according to all the studies. [86:23] And as we go further and further down [86:25] that road, I think it's making it more [86:27] obvious of [86:28] what's at the end of the other end of [86:29] the street. [86:30] Yeah. [86:31] And it's robbing us of something at a [86:32] really deep level that I think I'm [86:34] noticing more and more as I grow older. [86:35] I think that's actually why I want to [86:36] have kids now because I think I'm in [86:38] search of that greater meaning or [86:40] purpose in my life beyond just like [86:42] making more money or just, you know, [86:45] all the superficial stuff. [86:46] Yeah. [86:46] You You said to me before we started [86:48] speaking that you're thinking a lot [86:49] about community. [86:50] I am. [86:50] Why? [86:51] Because I think it is a balm [86:54] to students and to everybody. And um I [86:58] think those those events that we can [87:00] create that bring people together and [87:02] talking to each other and learning about [87:04] each other are joyous events. And um I [87:07] see it in the in [87:09] in me and in uh the students that come [87:12] to these events. It is clear that that [87:15] is um something that that is a little [87:18] bit unfamiliar to students right now, [87:20] but um has immediate effect. [87:23] What is the one thing we haven't spoke [87:24] about regarding [87:26] Betty, the brain over there in the [87:27] corner, but the brain in front of you. [87:29] The most important thing about the brain [87:30] that we didn't discuss. [87:34] You know, [87:37] you only have one. [87:39] And um [87:40] we have an opportunity every single day [87:45] to make it [87:48] as healthy as it could be. [87:50] I my I watched my father pass away with [87:52] Alzheimer's dementia. And um um [87:56] we have elderly people in my family as [87:58] well. And [88:01] it motivates me even more to to keep my [88:06] brain healthy, [88:07] to make as many friends as I can, to [88:09] have as many connections as I can. Uh [88:13] cuz I want to be as happy as I can be [88:14] for the rest of my life and I want to [88:16] have [88:17] and I want to have a big fat fluffy [88:19] brain. [88:20] So you only have one and [88:23] there are things you can do right now [88:24] today [88:25] to make it stronger. [88:30] Wendy [88:31] Thank you so much. Thank you for [88:35] the way that you deliver I think is so [88:37] deep rooted in a really undeniable [88:39] passion and you you're on a real mission [88:41] to make other people live better lives [88:44] and I think that's something that [88:45] deserves to be [88:47] highly commended. It's it's so apparent [88:49] in everything you do that you're so [88:50] focused on helping others in a way that [88:53] I don't always see um [88:55] and that comes from like you know [88:56] reading through your story I can see the [88:57] pivotal moments throughout your story [88:59] that sent you on that mission and I do [89:00] describe it as a mission. These two [89:02] books are fantastic. You wrote the book [89:04] in 2000 that we published in 2015 called [89:06] Healthy Brain Happy Life and then your [89:08] second book which came out in America [89:10] called Good Anxiety which is a [89:11] phenomenal book that really helps to [89:13] refrain how we think about anxiety. I [89:16] think that reframing helps us experience [89:18] it differently but also shall I say dare [89:20] I say [89:21] be grateful for the signal the lessons [89:23] that it's there to teach us the wisdom [89:24] that it gives us. [89:26] We have a closing tradition on this [89:27] podcast where the last guest leaves a [89:28] question for the next guest not knowing [89:29] who they're leaving it for. [89:30] Mhm. [89:31] Question left for you is in this book. [89:33] Oh. [89:36] What do you think is the best quality of [89:38] humanity? [89:39] Ooh. [89:44] Compassion. [89:47] And what does that mean? [89:48] Compassion means [89:57] feeling [90:00] feeling for the [90:02] um [90:03] um the experience of others both good [90:06] and bad. so I can experience your joy [90:08] compassionately and I could experience [90:10] your grief compassionately. I think that [90:14] is because I've been thinking so much [90:16] about connection and community [90:19] that um [90:21] function of uh or emotion of compassion [90:24] is uh really top of mind for me. [90:28] Wendy, thank you. [90:29] Thank you.