Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Links Muscle Loss to Mortality Risk
The Diary Of A CEO
Maintaining skeletal muscle mass through targeted resistance training and optimal protein intake prevents chronic disease and preserves lifelong cognitive function.
## Background
Published on September 26, 2024, on YouTube by The Diary Of A CEO, this interview features Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, founder of 'Muscle-Centric Medicine' and author of 'FOREVER STRONG'. The video details an in-depth conversation on how muscle health, strength training, and proper nutrition impact aging, brain health, hormonal balance, and long-term longevity.
## TL;DR
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon asserts that skeletal muscle is the primary organ of longevity and the true foundation for preventing age-related diseases like Alzheimer's, cardiovascular decline, and metabolic dysfunction. She reframes muscle as a voluntary metabolic sink and endocrine organ, emphasizing that strength training and high-quality protein are crucial to maintaining healthspan and independence. Lyon also breaks down common health myths around GLP-1 weight-loss drugs, low testosterone, and diet, arguing that discipline and non-negotiable personal standards are essential to breaking psychological barriers to change. Ultimately, the discussion highlights that protecting muscle health is the single most powerful tool for achieving physical freedom, cognitive sharpness, and overall vitality.
## Atmosphere & style
The conversation carries an authoritative yet deeply passionate and empathetic tone, driven by Dr. Lyon's urgent desire to correct public health misperceptions. Host Steven Bartlett guides the dialogue with engaging curiosity, allowing space for personal clinical anecdotes from Lyon's work with elite military operators, geriatric patients, and high performers. The atmosphere feels insightful, grounding complex physiology with deeply practical advice and serious reflections on aging, disease, and human potential.
## Key takeaways
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=0s) Skeletal muscle mass and strength serve as the fundamental organ of longevity, with low strength increasing all-cause mortality risk by 50%.
- [04:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=274s) High performers often experience severe neurochemical dopamine dips following major achievements, which can derail workout and nutrition habits if unmanaged.
- [09:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=579s) The primary psychological barrier preventing people from making lasting health changes is an underlying belief of unworthiness, rather than a lack of discipline.
- [22:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=1337s) Addressing underlying psychological trauma is necessary for physiological healing, as unresolved stress directly fuels physical resistance and health issues.
- [46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=2808s) Cardiovascular exercise alone is insufficient to prevent sarcopenia, as resistance training is required to preserve fast-twitch Type 2 muscle fibers as humans age.
- [05:33:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=20009s) Physical inactivity causes rapid metabolic damage, leading healthy skeletal muscle to become insulin resistant and redirect excess glucose to the liver as fat.
- [01:09:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4197s) Weight-loss medications like Ozempic do not directly waste muscle; muscle loss occurs only when GLP-1 therapy lacks adequate dietary protein and resistance training.
- [01:09:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4197s) To prevent muscle loss and support muscle protein synthesis, daily protein intake should be targeted at 0.7 to 1.0 grams per pound of ideal body weight.
- [01:15:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4515s) Heavy resistance training upregulates muscle androgen receptors, helping mitigate low testosterone levels caused by modern stress, poor sleep, and environmental toxins.
- [01:21:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4890s) Long-term health consistency is best achieved by establishing non-negotiable daily standards rather than setting arbitrary goals.
- [01:42:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6178s) Skeletal muscle functions as an endocrine organ, releasing brain-protective myokines during contraction that reduce inflammation and enhance cognitive function.
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=0s) Introduction: Muscle as the Organ of Longevity
The episode opens with a sharp, compelling thesis from Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: modern medicine is obsessively focused on obesity, but obesity is not our core issue. The true foundation of health and longevity lies in **skeletal muscle mass**—what she terms the "organ of longevity."
Dr. Lyon emphasizes that skeletal muscle is the only organ system under voluntary human control. Falling into the lower third of muscle strength carries a staggering cost: a **50% greater risk of all-cause mortality**. Despite this, a mere **6% to 8% of the population** meets the recommended resistance training guidelines, while the vast majority lives an entirely sedentary lifestyle.
When host Steven Bartlett asks what his health will look like at age 61 if he remains seated in his chair with zero strength training for the next 30 years, Dr. Lyon paints a stark, realistic portrait:
* **Elevated Disease Risk:** High likelihood of developing Alzheimer's disease and cardiovascular disease.
* **Hormonal & Reproductive Decline:** Suppressed testosterone levels and compromised sperm quality, highlighting a direct link between muscle mass and fertility in both men and women.
* **Physical & Brain Deterioration:** Severe breathlessness from basic movement (like climbing stairs), alongside visceral obesity and sleep apnea—a combination that directly degrades metabolic and cognitive function.
> "When it comes down to your health, it shouldn't be about how you look. It should be about how you perform. And there's no replacement for resistance training and skeletal muscle mass."
---
[02:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=159s) What Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Does: Removing Physical Restrictions
Dr. Lyon explains that her primary role as a physician is to eliminate physical restrictions so people can perform at their highest level. Over her 20-year career—which included specialized fellowship training in geriatrics and nutritional sciences—she has worked across the spectrum from frail elderly patients to high-performing "mavericks" who change the world.
Her current concierge medical practice serves high achievers, including former podcast guests like Evy Poumpouras and racing driver Danica Patrick, as well as Tier-1 military operators (such as Navy SEALs) and corporate CEOs.
```
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon's Practice
|
+--------------------------+--------------------------+
| |
v v
+------------------+ +------------------+
| Military/Special | | CEOs & Cultural |
| Operators | | Innovators |
+------------------+ +------------------+
| |
+--------------------------+--------------------------+
|
v
+----------------------------+
| Optimized Muscle Health |
+----------------------------+
```
Dr. Lyon observes that while high performers possess an extraordinary ability to push through physical pain, low energy, gut dysfunction, and hormonal imbalances, this drive comes at a steep, predictable physiological cost. Health, alongside aging, acts as the ultimate equalizer: no one can out-perform their underlying biological state.
* **Key Client Populations:** Geriatric patients, Navy SEALs and Tier-1 operators, Fortune 500 CEOs, and elite athletes.
* **Core Objective:** Removing physiological restrictions (inflammation, poor body composition, hormone imbalances) so clients can fulfill their potential unencumbered.
---
[04:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=274s) Why High Performers Seek Help & The Danger of Post-Achievement Dips
When elite clients seek out Dr. Lyon, they rarely present with an obvious disease. Instead, they share a persistent intuition that "something is still left on the table"—that their energy, sleep quality, and cognitive drive could be substantially sharper. Many have visited top-tier medical facilities like the Mayo Clinic without finding actionable answers.
A critical pattern Dr. Lyon identifies in Type-A individuals is the **post-achievement physiological dip**. After massive milestones—such as a major product event in Las Vegas, a successful book launch, or a record-breaking podcast episode—high performers experience a profound crash.
```
High Energy / Dopamine Peak (Event Launch)
/\
/ \
/ \
/ \
----/--------\---------------------- Baseline
\ Severe Dip
\ (Depression / Disruption)
\/
```
Rather than dropping back to baseline, their neurochemistry plunges into a state of depression and disengagement, causing them to abandon their workouts, break their nutrition plans, and search frantically for the next high.
> "As high as you go, after a big launch or event, there's a dip. And you don't go back to baseline... It's a very big high and a very big low. Nothing will take someone off a health journey faster than those lows."
* **The Underlying Cause:** Driven primarily by neurochemical dynamics (specifically dopamine surges during intense preparation) rather than pure psychology.
* **The Solution:** Cultivating a "neutral mindset" and managing dopamine dynamics through controlled intensity rather than wild emotional peaks and valleys.
---
[09:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=579s) The Hidden Block to Taking Action: The Worthiness Problem
Addressing why millions of people consume self-improvement and health content without taking action, Dr. Lyon dismisses standard explanations like a lack of discipline or motivation. Motivation is a "perishable feeling" that should never be relied upon, and discipline is a trainable skill. The true root barrier to long-term change is **worthlessness**.
```
+--------------------------------+
| Information & Advice Received |
+--------------------------------+
|
v
+--------------------------------+
| Internal Worthiness Filter |
+--------------------------------+
/ \
[Feels Worthy] [Feels Unworthy]
/ \
v v
+------------------------+ +------------------------+
| Execution & Sustained | | Self-Sabotage & Disuse |
| Health Gain | | of Resources |
+------------------------+ +------------------------+
```
If an individual does not believe at their core that they deserve to feel vibrant, healthy, and energized, they will sub-consciously sabotage their own progress. Dr. Lyon points to elite military operators—such as her husband, a former Navy SEAL—who master "controlled intensity." They can turn their drive on and off at will because they feel worthy of the outcome and clear in their identity.
* **Core Premise:** Self-sabotage occurs when health advice collides with a hidden belief that one is unworthy of feeling good.
* **Discipline vs. Motivation:** Motivation is fleeting; discipline is easily built once the emotional belief of self-worth is established.
---
[12:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=745s) Re-Engaging the Distracted & The Real Cost of Neglecting Health
When working with clients who exhibit subtle signs of low self-worth or chronic procrastination, Dr. Lyon begins by examining their biological foundations—evaluating sleep quality, dietary triggers, gut health, and comprehensive blood work. She outlines a practical diagnostic plan:
1. Comprehensive blood panels and metabolic testing
2. Sleep architecture assessment (overnight sleep studies)
3. Direct identification of food sensitivities and gastrointestinal issues
For busy executives who claim they lack the time to run diagnostic tests or stick to a fitness program, Dr. Lyon presents a sharp counter-perspective:
> "If people don't have time for health and wellness, how are they going to have time for sickness? That's so much more time-consuming."
```
Option A: Proactive Health Option B: Reactive Sickness
+----------------------------------+ vs. +-----------------------------------+
| Short, daily workouts | | Protracted medical visits |
| Strategic nutrition & testing | | Hospitalization & immobility |
| High energy & focus | | Chronic fatigue & loss of autonomy|
+----------------------------------+ +-----------------------------------+
```
Dr. Lyon notes a major cultural failure: society treats aging and severe illness as unpredictable surprises rather than predictable consequences of present choices. Aging is inevitable, but frailty, loss of independence, and metabolic deterioration are largely within human control.
* **Archetype Dynamics:** Corporate leaders often delay preventative action for 3 to 6 months citing busy schedules, but once a physical symptom forces their hand, their high-execution mindset allows them to adopt the routines long-term.
* **Anti-Aging Shift:** True longevity work is not about chasing superficial anti-aging trends; it is about building physical reserves—primarily muscle—to prevent catastrophic events like fall-induced hip fractures later in life.
[017:02] Stress Responses and Rethinking "Fight or Flight"
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon explains that patients who feel a deep sense of unworthiness or carry unresolved trauma often experience extreme resistance when attempting to make lifestyle changes. Trauma can take many forms, ranging from "little T" traumas—such as a parent leaving during childhood—to "big T" horrific events. A major factor keeping people stuck is the pervasive belief that all stress is inherently damaging and purely driven by a "fight or flight" response. Lyon points out that humans actually evolved to manage and mitigate stress, and how a person perceives an experience directly dictates their physiological response.
To demonstrate this mind-body connection, Lyon references the famous hotel housekeeper study. In that experiment, one group of housekeepers was informed that their daily work met or exceeded physical activity guidelines, while a control group was given no such context. At the end of the study, the housekeepers who were told their work counted as exercise experienced actual physical improvements: lower blood pressure, improved insulin sensitivity, better glucose regulation, and slight weight loss. Their physical reality shifted simply because their internal interpretation of their daily work changed.
Lyon criticizes the modern narrative that paints the entire world as an unbearable source of "fight or flight" stress. In English, the word "stress" is forced to describe vastly different situations—spilling coffee on a white sofa, losing a pet, or experiencing the death of a spouse. This single blanket term severely limits people's perception of their own capacity. Beyond fight or flight, Lyon highlights two far more adaptive stress responses:
- **Tend and Befriend:** Driven by oxytocin, this response prompts individuals to seek connection and help others during times of intense pressure.
- **The Courage Response:** Often observed in elite military operators, this response channels high-stress moments directly into decisive action.
To illustrate the courage response, Lyon offers a personal comparison: if she and her husband (a Navy SEAL) were about to jump out of an airplane, she would experience fear and fight-or-flight, whereas he would experience excitement and courage. Upon landing, her husband would be immediately capable of taking on the next task because his courage response mitigated the physiological strain, whereas Lyon would need hours or days to recalibrate.
- **Key Insight:** Fear is a natural involuntary reaction, but choosing courage in the face of stress is a learned habit that can be cultivated to protect physiological health.
---
[022:17] Addressing Trauma and Rebuilding the Doctor-Patient Relationship
When host Steven Bartlett asks how a physician can help a patient whose lack of motivation stems from deep childhood trauma or feelings of unworthiness, Lyon emphasizes that she never gives up on a patient. However, she stresses the critical importance of knowing "where physiology ends and psychology begins." While Lyon spent two years training in psychiatry—an experience that fueled her current work with military populations—she frequently collaborates with mindset coaches, such as Jim Kwik, to help patients work through deep-seated psychological blocks.
Lyon illustrates this boundary by sharing the story of a female patient who suffered from severe, unexplained insomnia and physical restlessness. Lyon's team conducted a comprehensive medical workup: a sleep apnea test came back negative, environmental factors were optimized for absolute rest, and hormone replacement therapy was administered. Despite resolving her physiological markers, the woman's heart rate continued to spike uncontrollably every night when she got into bed. It was eventually uncovered that the woman had suppressed memories of a past sexual assault. Lyon recognized that until the patient addressed this underlying trauma through specialized psychological care, no amount of medical or physical intervention could fix her sleep.
Lyon argues that modern medicine has become far too transactional, reducing patient interactions to brief 15-minute appointments. She advocates for restoring the traditional, honorable role of the physician—akin to how doctors operated in the 1800s as trusted, long-term counselors. Healing requires a true therapeutic relationship where the doctor acts as an invested teammate, helping patients uncover their hidden vulnerabilities so they can achieve total health.
- **Historical Perspective:** Physician-patient dynamics have shifted from long-term, trusted advisory partnerships to quick, transactional intake visits.
- **Therapeutic Approach:** Long-term physiological wellness cannot be achieved without diagnosing and addressing underlying psychological wounds.
---
[025:40] Tap into Service to Motivate Action
When discussing how to motivate patients to change, Bartlett suggests that many people need to hit rock bottom—experiencing severe pain, fear, or a terrible health diagnosis—before their "why" becomes strong enough to trigger action. Lyon agrees that pain is a powerful motivator, but she insists that people do not need to wait for a catastrophic health breakdown before making a pivot.
In her practice working with high performers, CEOs, and elite operators, Lyon finds that the most effective way to unlock lasting motivation is by shifting the focus from *self-service* to *other-service*. Extraordinary performers are rarely motivated purely by aesthetics or self-interest; they are driven by a desire to serve their families, lead their teams, and build a lasting legacy. When Lyon frames physical health, muscle retention, and lifestyle changes as essential prerequisites for carrying out their mission and serving others, patients willingly confront their vulnerabilities and execute the necessary lifestyle changes.
---
[028:00] Why Dr. Lyon Fights Misinformation: Lessons from Palliative Care
Asked why she is so passionately dedicated to her work after seeing thousands of patients over two decades, Lyon explains that, outside of her family, her greatest joy comes from being of service. Her drive was deeply shaped by the emotional toll of her medical training and geriatrics fellowship, where she worked grueling hours and witnessed constant death.
She vividly recalls the heartbreak of caring for dying patients who would never leave the hospital. One memory that remains etched in her mind is an 18-year-old patient with cystic fibrosis who was actively planning her dream wedding from her hospital bed—choosing a dress and arranging details for an event everyone knew she would never live to see.
Experiencing such profound loss daily drove Lyon to step into the public eye and utilize social media in 2015. Coming out of her fellowship, she was horrified by the widespread health misinformation proliferating online, including fad cleanses, fake diets, and anti-protein narratives that encouraged people to degrade their skeletal muscle. Having spent 17 years in higher education, Lyon felt a moral obligation to speak out:
> "The information was so wrong that I felt a responsibility to say something, and if I didn't, I would be contributing to the same problem."
Caring so deeply comes at a personal and emotional cost. Lyon admits to taking patient calls at midnight or 1:00 AM, constantly striving to balance her professional devotion with protecting her family life. However, she notes that her practice today is much more uplifting than her fellowship days; rather than managing end-of-life care, she now helps patients navigate complex, solvable challenges like toxic mold exposure, Lyme disease, thyroid imbalances, or optimizing longevity.
- **Educational Background:** Lyon completed 17 years of rigorous medical and nutritional education, including specialized training in psychiatry and a fellowship in geriatrics and nutritional sciences.
- **Pivot to Public Advocacy:** Spurred in 2015 by the contrast between hospital end-of-life realities and the misleading, trendy diet advice dominating social media.
---
[033:41] Mind Viruses: The Trap of Physical Comparison and Certainty
Bartlett asks Lyon to identify the "mind viruses"—the toxic limiting beliefs—that prevent people from becoming optimal performers. Lyon splits her answer into physical and psychological traps, pointing to **external physical comparison** as one of the most damaging mindsets.
People who constantly compare their bodies to others or obsess over maintaining their youthful appearance remain trapped in an external validation loop. Lyon notes that while this tendency often fades as people mature into their late 30s and 40s, staying overly focused on external physical markers creates a false sense of certainty.
To illustrate the danger of relying purely on physical capability, Lyon shares an insight from her husband regarding Navy SEAL training (BUD/S). Counterintuitively, the elite college athletes with flawless physiques are often among the very first to quit or wash out. Because these athletes spent their lives excelling in predictable physical environments—where throwing a ball or running fast yielded guaranteed results—they never developed the psychological fortitude required to navigate extreme mental uncertainty, pain, and chaos.
- **Key Takeaway:** Physical strength without mental resilience leaves an individual fragile when confronted with unpredictable adversity.
[35:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=2130s) Shifting from External Looks to Physical Readiness
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and host Steven Bartlett examine the self-defeating trap of chasing purely external aesthetic goals—such as plastic surgery, wrinkle reduction, facial treatments, or blow-drys—as a primary motivation for fitness. Dr. Lyon points out that purely externally focused individuals struggle heavily with aging because physical decay is an inevitable biological reality. Relying exclusively on appearance creates a continuous cycle of comparison and dissatisfaction, which ultimately bleeds into overall psychological well-being.
To build a resilient mindset, Dr. Lyon urges shifting the primary goal toward **physical readiness**, skill acquisition, and strength rather than aesthetic appearance alone. Viewing skeletal muscle as the ultimate "organ of longevity" shifts the purpose of exercise toward training for life—ensuring one remains capable of performing fundamental physical movements like running, squatting, and bench pressing.
* **Long-Term vs. Short-Term Incentives:** Short-term superficial choices (e.g., spending time on cosmetice services) divert finite time away from building lifelong strength.
* **The Regret of Distraction:** End-of-life observations routinely show that people regret superficial distractions rather than missing out on cosmetic pampering.
* **Mind-Body Connection:** A strong physical body cannot be built or maintained without cultivating mental strength and discipline to resist short-term distractions.
---
[42:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=2525s) Redefining the Strong Body and Universal Fitness Benchmarks
Dr. Lyon defines physical strength through functional autonomy and physical sovereignty—the capability to maneuver through life self-sufficiently without relying on others for assistance. Basic functional standards include the ability to perform a pull-up, complete at least 10 proper push-ups, and run a mile efficiently. Society as a whole is becoming increasingly physically weak, with rising rates of obesity extending even to younger generations. Maintaining physical accountability through measurable strength milestones is vital to counteract this systemic decline.
```
PHYSICAL READINESS FRAMEWORK
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Core Standards |
| • Pull-ups (minimum 1) |
| • Push-ups (10+ reps) |
| • 1-Mile Run (executed with good form) |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|
v
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Resistance Training Minimums |
| • Frequency: 3–4 Days per Week |
| • Volume: 10–20 Sets per Muscle Group / Week |
| • Goal: Hypertrophy & Strength (Compound Exercises) |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
```
To optimize longevity and halt muscle wasting, Dr. Lyon outlines specific, baseline standards for resistance training that everyone—regardless of age—should strive to achieve:
* **Baseline Frequency:** Resistance training **3 to 4 days per week** using weights, body weight, or resistance bands.
* **Standard Guidelines vs. Ideal Goals:** While standard health guidelines recommend 150 minutes of moderate activity and 2 days of strength training, Dr. Lyon stresses that this minimum is only sufficient for basic mobility, not for optimal aging or physical evolution.
* **Hypertrophy Training Volume:** Target **10 to 20 sets per muscle group per week** to promote muscle hypertrophy (growth).
* **Effective Split Styles:** Recommended routines include upper/lower splits, push/pull splits, or full-body compound workouts (utilizing exercises like squats and deadlifts).
---
[46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=2808s) Why Muscle Mass and Strength Dictate Survival and Longevity
Dr. Lyon presents a compelling argument for prioritizing resistance training: skeletal muscle functions as a vital metabolic sink and physical "body armor." It serves as the primary site for glucose disposal and fatty acid oxidation, making it indispensable for maintaining metabolic health and preventing insulin resistance. The statistical evidence linking strength to survival is striking—individuals falling into the lower third of strength metrics face a **50% greater risk of all-cause mortality** compared to those in higher brackets.
> "If you are in the lower one-third for strength, those that are in the lower one-third... have a 50% greater risk of dying from nearly anything."
The narrative that aging inevitably leads to weakness and frailty is fundamentally flawed. Regardless of age, the human body retains the ability to adapt, build muscle, and gain strength through targeted physical training.
---
[48:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=2925s) Breaking Generational Expectations and the Priority of Muscle Over Cardio
People often accept physical decline as an unavoidable genetic trajectory simply because they witnessed their parents lose muscle, gain visceral belly fat, and slow down. Dr. Lyon explains that humans frequently misinterpret repetition as truth, assuming that passive aging is natural because it is commonly observed. The modern medical system has historically separated muscle health from general wellness, misclassifying resistance training as an activity strictly meant for bodybuilders ("the bros").
Type 2 Muscle Fibers Type 1 Muscle Fibers
(Fast-Twitch / Power / Size) (Slow-Twitch / Endurance)
│ ▲
│ Transition via Sarcopenia │
└────────────────────────────────────┘
│
v
Loss of Power & Metabolic Sinks
(Increased Risk of Type 2 Diabetes)
```
While cardiovascular exercise provides undeniable cardiovascular benefits, Dr. Lyon asserts that cardiovascular training alone cannot replace resistance exercise. As individuals age without strength training, fast-twitch **Type 2 muscle fibers** (responsible for strength, power, and hypertrophy) progressively degrade and convert into **Type 1 fibers**. Solely performing cardiovascular exercises fails to stimulate or preserve these vital Type 2 fibers. Preserving muscle mass remains the fundamental biological buffer against sarcopenia, metabolic dysregulation, and elevated blood sugar levels.
* **Muscle vs. Cardio:** Cardiovascular exercise lacks the necessary mechanical tension to preserve fast-twitch Type 2 muscle fibers during aging.
* **Metabolic Defense:** Loss of muscle directly correlates with decreased glucose disposal, driving up blood sugar levels and increasing the risk of Type 2 diabetes.
[05:33:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=20009s) The Science of Muscle, Carbohydrates, and the "Healthy Sedentary" Myth
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon explains the critical metabolic relationship between carbohydrate intake and skeletal muscle tissue. When an individual consumes carbohydrates and sugars, healthy skeletal muscle acts as the primary reservoir to absorb and store those nutrients as glycogen. However, in the absence of adequate muscle mass or activity, excess glucose is redirected toward the liver and stored as fat, accelerating metabolic decline. Lyon refutes the common medical trope of a "healthy sedentary person," insisting that true physical health cannot coexist with a physical lifestyle that lacks resistance exercise.
To support this, Lyon references a landmark study from Yale University where researchers monitored 18-year-old college students classified as lean and healthy based on traditional metrics. When subjected to a protocol of physical inactivity, these lean students rapidly developed skeletal muscle insulin resistance and accumulated metabolic byproducts despite showing zero outward signs of weight gain or obesity. Because inactive muscle fails to turn over its stored glycogen, it progressively deteriorates at a cellular level. To age well, Lyon emphasizes that everyone must stimulate their muscle tissue through resistance exercise—whether using simple bodyweight movements, resistance bands, or yoga—rather than chasing extreme maximum lifts.
- **Glucose Sink:** Skeletal muscle serves as the primary metabolic site for glucose disposal in the body.
- **Myosteatosis:** Inactivity causes fat infiltration within muscle tissue, leaving muscle fibers marbled and dysfunctional.
- **Yale Study Findings:** Lean, normal-weight 18-year-olds developed silent muscle insulin resistance purely from a lack of physical activity.
- **Activity Stats:** Only 6% to 8% of the population meets official guidelines for resistance training.
- **Inactivity Rate:** Over 50% of Americans do not work out at all, and roughly 75% fail to meet the combined standard recommendations for both cardiovascular and strength training.
[05:56:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=21360s) Autonomy, Muscle Span, and the Hidden Costs of Convenience
Addressing the common argument that modern life expectancy has historically trended upward despite poor physical activity metrics, Lyon clarifies the critical distinction between lifespan and *healthspan*. While modern medical interventions can keep an individual technically alive on bed rest, high quality of life and physical autonomy are impossible without high-quality skeletal muscle. She points out everyday indicators of physical decline that have become normalized, such as adults struggling to lift an overhead suitcase on an airplane or feeling strained while placing luggage on a airport security conveyor belt.
```
"You cannot have a high-quality life without high-quality muscle."
```
Comparing Western societal decline to her father’s community in Ecuador, Lyon notes how her 74-year-old father routinely walks three hours without second thoughts. In such communities, continuous physical activity protects "muscle span"—the timeframe in a person's life where they retain functional, high-quality skeletal muscle. In modern societies, convenient environments full of escalators, elevators, and vehicles continuously entice people toward the path of least resistance, compounding physical degradation over time.
[05:59:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=21581s) Belly Fat, Body Recomposition, and Muscle as an Appetite Regulator
When asked how she approaches a client seeking standard aesthetic goals like losing stubborn belly fat, Lyon cautions against hyper-fixating on body fat removal procedures like liposuction. Instead, her clinical strategy addresses underlying behavioral root causes—such as stress eating, alcohol overconsumption, or sleep deprivation—and redirects the primary objective toward body recomposition by building new muscle. Rather than framing obesity management solely around weight loss, she argues medical culture must shift toward optimizing skeletal muscle health.
Lyon hints at emerging, unpublished observational research from her colleagues suggesting that skeletal muscle plays a direct role in appetite regulation through specific surface receptors. Beyond just increasing caloric expenditure during physical exertion, expanding healthy muscle mass appears to send regulatory signals back to the brain to help manage hunger.
[01:02:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=3736s) Ozempic, Anabolics, and the Stigma Around Muscle Growth
The discussion turns to weight-loss medications like Ozempic, Mounjaro, and the broader class of GLP-1 and GIP receptor agonists. Lyon acknowledges that these medications are here to stay and hold genuine clinical utility for individuals struggling with long-term metabolic dysfunction. However, she calls out a striking cultural double standard: society readily accepts administering pharmaceuticals to decrease body fat, yet reacts with intense stigma toward utilizing anabolic therapies—such as targeted testosterone or its derivatives—to build or protect skeletal muscle.
Addressing the popular belief that Ozempic directly causes muscle tissue wasting, Lyon clarifies that there is no direct biochemical mechanism by which GLP-1 drugs degrade muscle tissue. In fact, evidence suggests these medications can support overall tissue health. The actual cause of muscle loss on weight-loss medications is poor patient behavior: users dramatically cut calories without maintaining proper dietary protein intake or engaging in resistance training.
- **Appetite and Binge Control:** GLP-1 agonists assist by quieting obsessive "food noise" and curbing compulsions toward binge eating or alcohol intake.
- **Clinical Tracking:** In Lyon’s medical practice, patients using GLP-1 medications show zero muscle loss when dietary protein targets and resistance training routines are systematically maintained.
- **The True Cost:** The main risk of weight-loss drugs occurs when patients titrate off without having built sound habits or addressed psychological triggers, leading to immediate weight regain.
[01:09:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4197s) The Dietary Protein Foundation and Longevity Protocol
When structuring a nutrition plan to optimize body composition and manage calories, Lyon builds everything on a foundation of dietary protein, calling it the most unnecessarily controversial macronutrient in modern media. Protein naturally stimulates the body's endogenous release of GLP-1 meal-to-meal, directly increasing satiety and regulating blood sugar balance.
```
"You cannot out-medicate poor behavior."
```
For optimal muscle protein synthesis and appetite control, Lyon recommends a daily target of **0.7 to 1.0 grams of protein per pound of ideal body weight**. Individuals relying on highly bioavailable, nutrient-dense animal proteins can comfortably aim for the lower end (0.7 g/lb), whereas those relying entirely on plant-based protein sources should target the higher end (1.0 g/lb) to compensate for lower amino acid density and digestibility. She emphasizes that aging adults actually require up to double the baseline minimum protein recommendations to prevent anabolic resistance and maintain functional independence.
[01:11:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4304s) Anabolic Resistance and the Rising Epidemic of Low Testosterone
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon details the specific scientific recommendations for dietary protein, contrasting standard minimums with optimal needs. The baseline recommendation sits at 0.8 grams per kilogram (roughly 0.37 grams per pound) of body weight, which means a 115-pound person would only require 45 grams of protein daily—a figure that represents the bare minimum just to prevent a clinical deficiency. However, as people age, their skeletal muscle experiences "anabolic resistance," becoming significantly less efficient at utilizing dietary protein than it was in their teenage years or twenties.
When Steven Bartlett shares his own history of building muscle—noting that while he played sports whole-heartedly, putting on size felt difficult in his early twenties due to accidentally under-eating calories before it smoothed out around age 25 to 27—Dr. Lyon highlights that his body is currently highly anabolic and sensitive to exercise and diet stimuli. Steven brings up male friends around ages 27 to 29 who claim they do everything right but cannot gain muscle mass. Beyond standard checks into their caloric intake, sleep, and training split, Dr. Lyon offers a candid clinical perspective: she is witnessing a startling surge in abnormally low testosterone levels among young men.
This drop in testosterone strips young men of their natural anabolic (building) potential. When asked if one can spot low testosterone simply by looking at someone, Dr. Lyon acknowledges that while some colleagues might debate it, physical cues often include sparse leg hair, diminished overall muscle mass, and physical characteristics that reflect a higher ratio of estrogen relative to testosterone.
- **Baseline Protein RDA:** 0.8 g/kg (0.37 g/lb) of body weight (45 g/day for a 115 lb individual is merely a deficiency-prevention threshold).
- **Anabolic Resistance:** The age-related drop in skeletal muscle's efficiency at absorbing and utilizing amino acids for muscle protein synthesis.
- **Root Causes of Low Testosterone in Young Men:**
- Poor sleep hygiene and high stress.
- Diets dominated by ultra-processed foods and inadequate protein.
- Use of recreational drugs.
- Environmental toxin exposure (heavy metals like lead and mercury affecting the endocrine system and fertility).
---
[01:15:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4515s) Environmental Heavy Metals and Optimizing Receptor Sensitivity
To naturally optimize testosterone without resorting to hormone therapy injections, Dr. Lyon emphasizes auditing fundamental lifestyle habits first. While heavy weight resistance training does not directly manufacture testosterone on its own, it plays a vital role by upregulating androgen receptors throughout skeletal muscle, making the body far more responsive to existing hormone levels.
In her clinical practice, Dr. Lyon performs extensive heavy metal screening and frequently uncover high environmental exposures that sabotage hormone health and fertility. While everyday stainless steel cups are safe, toxins like lead and mercury often enter the body through aluminum cans, heavy consumption of high-trophic seafood, or specific occupational/hobby exposures like handling firearms and lead ammunition.
---
[01:16:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4576s) Dr. Gabrielle Lyon’s Daily Workout & Fasted Routine
Lifting the curtain on her personal lifestyle, Dr. Lyon outlines the exact routine that keeps her in peak physical condition. Waking up between 5:30 AM and 6:00 AM (often after her husband gets up at 4:00 AM), she heads out to train three days a week—Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays—for an hour with her coach, Carlos Mana. She jokingly admits she is roughly five minutes late every single time because of the morning shuffle with her two young children, aged three and five. Rather than letting parenting interrupt her fitness, she embeds her kids right into the process.
> "People and children, they don't care what you say. They care what you do."
Her kids have their own kettlebell sets, and her five-year-old is enrolled in jiujitsu. Dr. Lyon trains in a fasted state, fueled primarily by a high intake of coffee. On non-lifting days (Tuesdays and Thursdays), she incorporates roughly 20 minutes of cardio depending on her recovery state. She maintains high non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) throughout the day, frequently wearing a weighted vest during work calls, pacing while talking, and staying in perpetual motion.
- **Lifting Frequency:** 3 days a week (1-hour high-intensity weight training sessions on Monday, Wednesday, Friday).
- **Cardio / Active Recovery:** 20 minutes of light or intense cardio on Tuesday and Thursday; optional 4th session on Saturday; group workout on Sunday.
- **Daily Movement Habits:** Pacing while on phone calls, wearing weighted vests (ranging from 5 lb, 7 lb, to 20 lb), and continuous daily activity.
---
[01:18:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4717s) Daily Meal Structure, Nutrition Protocols, and Alcohol Abstinence
Weighing roughly 110 pounds, Dr. Lyon consumes around 120 grams of protein and 110–120 grams of carbohydrates daily. After training fasted (save for occasional collagen powder stirred into her coffee for skin, hair, and nail health—which she explicitly notes has a protein quality score of zero and does not stimulate muscle protein synthesis), her first real meal arrives as a 30 to 50-gram whey protein shake.
Her second meal consists of high-quality lean beef accompanied by complex carbohydrates such as rice or potatoes and green vegetables. She rounds out her day at approximately 7:00 PM with a family dinner that delivers another 30 to 50 grams of protein and around 50 grams of carbohydrates. She maintains total abstinence from alcohol, explaining straightforwardly that she has never drank because it tastes like rubbing alcohol to her, alongside her medical awareness of its neurotoxic effects.
> "Every single time you eat, you have an opportunity to improve your health."
- **Protein Intake:** ~120 g per day divided into 3 major protein-centric feedings (30–50 g per meal).
- **Carbohydrate Intake:** 110–120 g per day (rice, potatoes).
- **Collagen Clarification:** Considered an incomplete protein (protein quality score of 0) that does not trigger muscle protein synthesis.
---
[01:21:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4890s) Practical Tips to Build Muscle Without a Gym
For individuals seeking to build muscle and increase physical output without living in a traditional gym, Dr. Lyon breaks down effortless, low-friction habits. The most accessible strategy is weighted rucking—adding a 5 to 7-pound weighted vest while taking phone calls or going for walks, then progressively overloading the weight over time.
To overcome sedentary habits and the natural friction of changing behaviors, she recommends gamifying physical activity at home, especially with children. Instead of sitting down for video games after school, her family runs push-up challenges, holds Nerf gun battles, or hosts spontaneous dance parties to high-energy music like Beyoncé's line-dancing hit "Texas Hold 'Em."
---
[01:23:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=5021s) Goals vs. Standards: The Mindset of Discipline
When Steven reflects on how his past fitness goals were often superficial and bound to specific calendar dates, Dr. Lyon challenges the premise of setting traditional goals altogether. Instead, she preaches the concept of establishing unshakeable **standards**.
> "I don't think we should set goals... I think we should set standards. When you set a goal, you can either reach that goal or not. But if you set a standard then you will always keep your standard."
Goals create a binary outcome of success or failure, whereas standards dictate non-negotiable daily behaviors regardless of travel, stress, or environment. Her standards involve hitting her 110–120g protein and carbohydrate targets every day and maintaining designated movement windows no matter where she is in the world.
When Steven asks what part of her own advice she struggles with, Dr. Lyon admits that sleep is her biggest vulnerability. With two young children, she purposefully chooses to give them her undivided attention in the evening, which forces her to work an extra 2 to 3 hours after they go to bed.
Addressing the debate over whether people can truly "have it all," Dr. Lyon rejects the victim mindset. While acknowledging that trade-offs and sacrifices are required, she insists that people often hide behind excuses because facing the truth of their own internal choices is uncomfortable. She attributes her success not to being inherently special, but to executing strict, radical discipline without overthinking it.
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[01:27:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=5266s) No Excuses, Meaningful Consequences, and the Two Steves
Steven points out that many people struggle with personal responsibility and can get easily offended by strict advice—often joining the "what about" gang that raises endless edge cases. Dr. Lyon acknowledges this reality, yet shares her own demanding life as proof that excuses are a choice: she runs three businesses, cares for high-profile patients, hosts a podcast, is writing two books, and is a mother without full-time help. She asserts, "The one thing I don't find is I don't find excuses. I figure out ways to get it done because if it matters, you find ways to get it done." She illustrates this with a hypothetical scenario: if eating another cupcake meant something catastrophic would happen to your dog, you would never touch a cupcake again. The issue isn't capability; it is whether the consequence is meaningful enough. For Dr. Lyon, her drive comes from witnessing the ultimate consequence in her clinical work: watching people suffer and die from preventable diseases.
To highlight this choice, Steven proposes contrasting two versions of himself 30 years in the future at age 61: "Sedentary Steve" (who sits in a chair, eats processed food, and does zero resistance training) versus "Dr. Lyon Steve." Starting with Sedentary Steve, Dr. Lyon delivers a blunt assessment. Even at age 30, the underlying processes of Alzheimer's and cardiovascular disease are likely already starting if someone is inactive. She emphasizes that skeletal muscle is "the only organ system that you have direct voluntary control over," making it our primary tool for intervention.
- **Consequence Drives Action:** Behavioral change happens when the stakes and consequences are clear and personally meaningful.
- **Root Cause of Aging Diseases:** Chronic age-related conditions like cardiovascular disease and dementia are deeply tied to the baseline health and mass of skeletal muscle.
- **Voluntary Control:** Unlike the heart or inner organ functions, skeletal muscle is unique in being fully under our conscious, voluntary control.
---
[01:31:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=5505s) The Downward Spiral of "Sedentary Steve"
Dr. Lyon paints a detailed picture of what happens to Sedentary Steve over three decades of physical neglect. Contracting skeletal muscle acts as an endocrine organ, releasing signaling molecules and boosting blood flow to the brain. Without exercise, neural connections weaken, setting the stage for cognitive decline, memory loss, and conditions like "Type 3 diabetes"—a term used to describe brain insulin resistance linked to systemic metabolic dysfunction. Sedentary Steve would experience reduced lung and cardiovascular capacity, getting winded doing simple tasks like walking upstairs or standing up from a chair.
As the years roll on, Sedentary Steve develops central obesity and sleep apnea, further eroding both his brain and metabolic health. His testosterone levels crash, and his fertility and sperm quality suffer throughout his life due to poor metabolic health and physical inactivity.
- **Brain-Muscle Connection:** Lack of resistance training reduces brain blood flow and critical signaling, accelerating memory loss and cognitive impairment.
- **Insulin Resistance:** Inactivity causes insulin resistance in both skeletal muscle and the brain.
- **Functional Loss:** Everyday movements—like standing out of a chair or carrying a 15 lb grocery bag—become major physical burdens.
---
[01:34:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=5692s) Muscle, Metabolic Health, and Fertility
Steven asks about the link between muscle mass, exercise, and fertility in both men and women. Dr. Lyon explains that skeletal muscle accounts for roughly 40% of body weight and serves as the primary sink for glucose disposal. When you exercise, muscle contracts and absorbs glucose from the bloodstream without requiring insulin—an insulin-independent process. This mechanism is critical for conditions like polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), where skeletal muscle insulin resistance plays a major role. Managing muscle mass and restoring insulin sensitivity can help resolve PCOS symptoms in many women.
Steven references a Harvard study showing that men who regularly lifted heavy weights or objects at work had a 46% higher sperm concentration and a 44% higher total sperm count compared to those in less physically demanding jobs. Dr. Lyon confirms that exercise, metabolic health, and muscle mass directly influence sperm health and male fertility.
By contrast, when imagining "Dr. Lyon Steve" at age 61—someone who followed her protocols for 30 years—she describes a thriving, highly functional individual with a six-pack who is full of vitality. When Steven asks for the healthiest older person she knows, she names her 74-year-old father. Through a decade of following her recommendations, he maintains a testosterone level around 800 ng/dL without hormone replacement, displays excellent fasting blood sugar and hemoglobin A1c, and remains strong and capable.
- **Harvard Study on Male Fertility:** Heavy lifting at work correlated with a **46% higher sperm concentration** and a **44% higher total sperm count**.
- **PCOS and Muscle:** Exercise allows glucose uptake directly into muscles without insulin, helping treat the underlying insulin resistance associated with PCOS.
- **Biological Aging Example:** Dr. Lyon's 74-year-old father boasts a **800 ng/dL testosterone level** (no TRT) and optimal metabolic markers due to consistent muscle-centric habits.
---
[01:38:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=5899s) Setting an Example for the Next Generation
Dr. Lyon stresses that prioritizing skeletal muscle as the "organ of longevity" is about more than just personal health—it is a responsibility to our children. Society has normalized supersizing both food portions and body sizes, while screen time and digital connection have displaced genuine, face-to-face human interaction. Parents must advocate for their own physical health to serve as living role models for the youth.
Turning to her book, *Forever Strong: A New, Science-Based Strategy for Aging Well*, Steven asks about key dietary and physical takeaways. Dr. Lyon recaps that while dietary protein can be controversial, it remains non-negotiable for building and preserving muscle. Carbohydrates, meanwhile, are "earned through activity." For individuals with metabolic dysfunction, she suggests starting around 100 grams of carbohydrates daily and adjusting up or down based on activity levels.
- **Modeling Health for Children:** Physical health builds mental resilience, providing a crucial standard for younger generations facing an environment of physical inactivity and hyper-processed foods.
- **Carbohydrate Threshold:** A baseline of **100 grams of carbohydrates per day** serves as a practical starting point for metabolically unhealthy individuals, titrated according to their physical activity.
---
[01:40:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6036s) Rapid Muscle Loss and Muscle Memory
Steven asks how quickly muscle mass is lost when training stops. Dr. Lyon reveals that muscle loss occurs with alarming speed under bed rest or severe stress: patients in an intensive care unit (ICU) or highly catabolic states can lose up to 2% of their muscle mass per day. Even in a young, healthy individual, seven days of complete bed rest can result in losing up to 2 pounds of pure skeletal muscle mass, with strength declining before total volume drops.
While muscle memory allows previously trained individuals to regain mass faster than building it the first time, simply resuming basic daily activities after a period of illness or hospital stay is not enough to rebuild lost tissue. Dedicated resistance training is required. Steven shares his own struggles during intense shooting schedules for television shows like *Dragons' Den* (the UK counterpart to *Shark Tank*), where sitting in a chair for 10 hours a day drains his motivation to exercise, creating a downward spiral.
- **ICU Muscle Loss Rate:** Up to **2% of muscle mass per day** can be lost in acute catabolic states or ICU bed rest.
- **1-Week Bed Rest Impact:** A young, healthy person can lose **2 lbs of skeletal muscle mass** in just **7 days of bed rest**.
- **Strength vs. Mass:** Neuromuscular strength declines first, followed rapidly by muscle tissue atrophy.
---
[01:42:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6178s) Muscle as an Endocrine Organ and Lunch-Break Training
Dr. Lyon explains the biological mechanism behind Steven's slump during long, sedentary shooting days. Skeletal muscle functions as an endocrine organ that produces and secretes "myokines"—such as interleukin-6 (IL-6) and interleukin-15 (IL-15)—during physical contraction. Depending on the intensity and duration of exercise, these myokines circulate throughout the body, crossing into the brain to enhance mood, promote neurogenesis, reduce systemic inflammation, and enable vital cross-talk between organs like the liver and kidneys. When a person stops moving, this chemical signaling drops off, causing fatigue and loss of motivation.
When Steven mentions having only a lunch break during 10-hour filming days, Dr. Lyon offers zero sympathy for skipping workouts: "You should be training on that lunch break. I don't care how tired you are." When Steven replies that he is hungry during lunch, she responds bluntly: "Then you should eat in 10 minutes and get to training."
- **Key Myokines:** Muscle contraction releases signaling proteins like **IL-6** and **IL-15** that act systemically across the brain, liver, and kidneys.
- **Brain & Mood Support:** Myokines stimulate neurogenesis, improve mood, and directly counterbalance inflammation.
- **No-Excuses Solution:** Long sedentary days require fitting short, intense training sessions into available breaks—such as spending 10 minutes eating and the remainder of the hour exercising.
[01:44:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6282s) Forward Planning and Scheduling Workouts
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and Steven Bartlett discuss the vital role of intentional forward planning when managing intense schedules. Gabrielle points out that demanding days—such as filming continuously for ten hours—are entirely predictable. Because you know the physical and emotional drain is coming, you must establish an action plan beforehand. Failing to plan leaves you dealing with predictable downstream consequences: diminished motivation, compromised nutrition, and a slump in overall mood.
Steven admits to a major personal oversight: he does not actually schedule his workouts. Instead, physical training acts as a "residual beneficiary," receiving whatever leftover time remains in his day—sometimes forcing him to work out near midnight right before an international flight. Although he acknowledges his privilege in being able to have an assistant block out training time, he wonders how many people actively schedule their exercise. Gabrielle firmly asserts that high performers always schedule their health, stating that she can look at someone's calendar and accurately predict what they will look like in ten years. She emphasizes that setting non-negotiable fitness standards—even just three days a week—is fundamental because managing physical health directly dictates a person's long-term capacity and impact.
- "Show me your habits and I will tell you how successful you will be able to continue to be in the long run."
- "Nothing is going to be more critical for your impact than being able to manage your health."
---
[01:46:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6412s) Vision for the Future and Family Standards
Looking forward 30 years, Steven asks Gabrielle what success will look like in the broader public health conversation. Gabrielle envisions a complete paradigm shift where society no longer talks endlessly about obesity as the primary issue. Instead, obesity becomes a mere afterthought because the cultural focus has shifted entirely to physical and mental strength, recognizing muscle health as a controllable, actionable solution. On a personal level, she hopes her children grow up happy, resilient, and capable of enduring life's challenges.
When Steven jokingly asks what she would do if her husband stopped taking care of himself, Gabrielle laughs, noting that while she would say something "totally inappropriate and somewhat aggressive" in private, her husband would never let himself slip. She explains that taking care of one's health is a non-negotiable responsibility to serve as a strong example for their children.
- Gabrielle envisions a future where obesity is merely an "afterthought" while muscle strength takes center stage.
- She believes parents have a fundamental duty to model physical discipline and resilience for their kids.
---
[01:48:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6484s) Reflecting on Meaningful Regrets and Personal Drive
Steven introduces the traditional closing question left by the previous podcast guest: *"Regret can occur due to action taken or action not taken. In light of that, what is your biggest meaningful regret and why?"* Gabrielle pauses to reflect deeply, questioning whether she genuinely holds any real regrets, as she strongly believes people are ultimate owners of their choices.
When Steven rephrases the prompt around "mistakes," Gabrielle ponders her intense, lifelong internal drive. She contemplates whether she could have placed less pressure on herself over the years in her relentless pursuit to contribute meaningfully to the world. However, she quickly questions whether easing that pressure would have altered her outcomes or diminished her diligence, concluding that her intense drive was necessary for her mission.
- Gabrielle struggles to identify a true regret because of her belief in absolute personal responsibility for one's life choices.
- She reflects on the extreme pressure she places on herself to contribute to society, but questions if she would change it.
---
[01:49:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6574s) The True Purpose: Health as a Gateway to Freedom
Steven expresses deep gratitude to Gabrielle for leading the global movement around muscle health and longevity, highlighting how her educational efforts have positively transformed millions of lives. The conversation brings Steven to reflect on his own childhood memories, vividly recalling watching his mother run repeatedly back and forth on their street when he was four or five years old—an enduring image of health discipline that shaped his perspective on life.
Gabrielle responds by clarifying the core philosophical core of her work. She emphasizes that her mission extends far beyond biology, workouts, or muscle tissue. For her, medicine and muscle health are simply gateways to grant individuals true personal autonomy and happiness, allowing them the physical freedom to pursue whatever they desire in life.
- Steven shares a childhood memory of his mother running outside their home, realizing how parental modeling silently shapes a child's lifelong values.
- "Muscle is the way in. Medicine is the way in, but what I really want for people is I want them to have freedom. And that freedom is happiness."
## Notable quotes
> [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=0s) When it comes down to your health, it shouldn't be about how you look. It should be about how you perform. And there's no replacement for resistance training and skeletal muscle mass. — Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
> [04:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=274s) As high as you go, after a big launch or event, there's a dip. And you don't go back to baseline... It's a very big high and a very big low. Nothing will take someone off a health journey faster than those lows. — Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
> [12:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=745s) If people don't have time for health and wellness, how are they going to have time for sickness? That's so much more time-consuming. — Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
> [28:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=1680s) The information was so wrong that I felt a responsibility to say something, and if I didn't, I would be contributing to the same problem. — Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
> [46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=2808s) If you are in the lower one-third for strength, those that are in the lower one-third... have a 50% greater risk of dying from nearly anything. — Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
> [05:56:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=21360s) You cannot have a high-quality life without high-quality muscle. — Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
> [01:09:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4197s) You cannot out-medicate poor behavior. — Gabrielle Lyon
> [01:16:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4576s) People and children, they don't care what you say. They care what you do. — Gabrielle Lyon
> [01:18:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4717s) Every single time you eat, you have an opportunity to improve your health. — Gabrielle Lyon
> [01:21:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=4890s) I don't think we should set goals... I think we should set standards. When you set a goal, you can either reach that goal or not. But if you set a standard then you will always keep your standard. — Gabrielle Lyon
> [01:44:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6282s) Show me your habits and I will tell you how successful you will be able to continue to be in the long run. — Gabrielle Lyon
> [01:44:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6282s) Nothing is going to be more critical for your impact than being able to manage your health. — Gabrielle Lyon
> [01:49:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3T4oYJPfI&t=6574s) Muscle is the way in. Medicine is the way in, but what I really want for people is I want them to have freedom. And that freedom is happiness. — Gabrielle Lyon
## Mentioned
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, Steven Bartlett, Evy Poumpouras, Danica Patrick, Jim Kwik, Mayo Clinic, Yale University, Navy SEALs, The Diary Of A CEO, FOREVER STRONG: A New, Science-Based Strategy for Aging Well, Gabrielle Lyon, Carlos Mana, Ozempic, Mounjaro, GLP-1, GIP, PCOS, Harvard University, Forever Strong: A New, Science-Based Strategy for Aging Well, Dragons' Den, Shark Tank, Beyoncé
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon contends that modern medicine focuses excessively on obesity rather than skeletal muscle mass, which she designates as the primary voluntary organ of longevity. She argues that sustaining muscular strength and metabolic capacity through progressive resistance training and adequate dietary protein is essential to prevent chronic metabolic and cognitive decline.
Muscle Mass as the Foundation of Metabolic Health (0:00)
Dr. Lyon asserts that skeletal muscle, making up roughly 40% of body weight, serves as the human body's primary site for glucose disposal and fatty acid oxidation. Individuals falling into the lower third of muscle strength face a 50% higher risk of all-cause mortality, yet only 6% to 8% of the population meets standard resistance training guidelines. Highlighting a Yale University study on lean 18-year-olds subjected to physical inactivity, Lyon notes that sedentary muscle rapidly develops silent insulin resistance and myosteatosis—intramuscular fat infiltration—without visible weight gain.
Beyond basic mechanics, contracting skeletal muscle functions as an endocrine organ. During physical exertion, muscle tissue releases chemical messengers called myokines, including interleukin-6 (IL-6) and interleukin-15 (IL-15). These signaling proteins cross the blood-brain barrier to promote neurogenesis, regulate mood, attenuate systemic inflammation, and coordinate metabolic communication between the liver and kidneys.
Resistance Training Standards for Preserving Physical Autonomy (42:05)
To counteract age-related sarcopenia, Lyon argues that cardiovascular exercise cannot substitute for mechanical resistance training. Without targeted loading, fast-twitch Type 2 muscle fibers atrophy and convert to Type 1 fibers, degrading physical power and reducing glucose sinks. She outlines functional readiness benchmarks that include performing at least one pull-up, completing ten strict push-ups, and running a mile with sound form.
For ongoing maintenance, Lyon recommends resistance training three to four days per week, performing 10 to 20 sets per muscle group weekly using compound exercises. She cautions that muscle tissue atrophies rapidly under disuse: acute catabolic conditions or intensive care bed rest can trigger up to 2% muscle loss per day, while seven days of complete bed rest in a healthy young adult can waste roughly two pounds of skeletal muscle before total volume visually appears diminished.
Protein Targets, Anabolic Resistance, and Medication (69:57)
To overcome age-related anabolic resistance—a state where skeletal muscle requires higher concentrations of amino acids to trigger muscle protein synthesis—Lyon recommends consuming 0.7 to 1.0 grams of dietary protein per pound of ideal body weight daily. Individuals eating bioavailable animal proteins can aim for the lower threshold (0.7 g/lb), while those relying on plant proteins require the upper threshold (1.0 g/lb) to compensate for lower amino acid density and digestibility.
Lyon also addresses weight-loss drugs like GLP-1 receptor agonists, disputing claims that these medications directly waste muscle. She observes that muscle deterioration during GLP-1 therapy occurs because patients severely restrict calories without meeting protein minimums or lifting weights. In her clinical practice, patients adhering to structured resistance training and prescribed protein intake retain their muscle mass while benefiting from reduced appetite cues.
Psychological Worthiness and Adaptive Stress Responses (9:39)
Lyon identifies low self-worth, rather than poor discipline or fleeting motivation, as the primary barrier preventing people from executing health advice. Individuals who subconsciously feel undeserving of health often sabotage their own regimens. Furthermore, she criticizes the modern framing of all stress as damaging 'fight or flight' arousal, pointing to adaptive evolutionary responses such as 'tend and befriend' (oxytocin-mediated affiliation) and the 'courage response' (decisive action under pressure).
Lyon cites a landmark experiment involving hotel housekeepers: when informed that their daily labor met physical activity guidelines, the housekeepers exhibited measurable improvements in blood pressure, glucose regulation, and body composition purely through altered cognitive framing. Where underlying psychological trauma or deep-seated resistance blocks behavior, Lyon stresses that physicians must clearly recognize where physiological optimization ends and specialized psychiatric counseling begins.
Lyon concludes that treating muscle health as a non-negotiable personal standard rather than a discretionary goal provides the ultimate gateway to lifelong autonomy and freedom. However, her framework faces ongoing public health obstacles, including systemic sedentary habits, environmental endocrine disruptors contributing to low testosterone in young men, and the difficulty of resolving deeply rooted patient traumas within short, transactional medical appointments.
[0:00] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: When it comes down to your health, it shouldn't be about how you look. It should be about how you perform. And there's no replacement for resistance training and skeletal muscle mass.
[4:34] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: As high as you go, after a big launch or event, there's a dip. And you don't go back to baseline... It's a very big high and a very big low. Nothing will take someone off a health journey faster than those lows.
[12:25] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: If people don't have time for health and wellness, how are they going to have time for sickness? That's so much more time-consuming.
[28:00] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: The information was so wrong that I felt a responsibility to say something, and if I didn't, I would be contributing to the same problem.
[46:48] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: If you are in the lower one-third for strength, those that are in the lower one-third... have a 50% greater risk of dying from nearly anything.
[356:00] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: You cannot have a high-quality life without high-quality muscle.
[69:57] Gabrielle Lyon: You cannot out-medicate poor behavior.
[76:16] Gabrielle Lyon: People and children, they don't care what you say. They care what you do.
[78:37] Gabrielle Lyon: Every single time you eat, you have an opportunity to improve your health.
[81:30] Gabrielle Lyon: I don't think we should set goals... I think we should set standards. When you set a goal, you can either reach that goal or not. But if you set a standard then you will always keep your standard.
[104:42] Gabrielle Lyon: Show me your habits and I will tell you how successful you will be able to continue to be in the long run.
[104:42] Gabrielle Lyon: Nothing is going to be more critical for your impact than being able to manage your health.
[109:34] Gabrielle Lyon: Muscle is the way in. Medicine is the way in, but what I really want for people is I want them to have freedom. And that freedom is happiness.
Original transcript
[0:00] To this day, everybody focuses on
[0:01] obesity, but obesity is not our problem.
[0:03] If you are in the lower 1/3 of strength,
[0:05] you have a 50% greater risk of dying
[0:08] from nearly anything. You have to
[0:10] prioritize skeletal muscle. What is
[0:11] that? This is the organ of longevity.
[0:13] The only organ system that you have
[0:15] voluntary control of. And there's only
[0:17] two ways to stimulate skeletal muscle.
[0:18] Number one, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon is a
[0:21] pioneer of muscle science and the
[0:22] board-certified physician for athletes,
[0:24] CEOs, and Navy SEALs.
[0:26] Transforming the way we think about
[0:27] muscle and how it can prevent disease,
[0:29] optimize your body, and completely
[0:31] reshape how we age. When it comes down
[0:33] to your health, it shouldn't be about
[0:34] how you look. It should be about how you
[0:36] perform. And there's no replacement for
[0:39] resistance training and skeletal muscle
[0:41] mass. But, only 6 to 8% of people are
[0:43] meeting the resistance training
[0:45] guidelines, and the majority of
[0:46] individuals are sedentary. Can you
[0:48] describe to me what my life will look
[0:50] like as a 61-year-old if I just sit in
[0:52] this chair and do zero resistance
[0:53] training for the next 30 years?
[0:55] you ready? You're 30. So, right now,
[0:57] Alzheimer's disease and cardiovascular
[0:59] disease is likely. Throughout your
[1:00] lifespan, your testosterone is probably
[1:02] low, and your sperm quality isn't as
[1:04] good as it could have been.
[1:05] So, there's a link between my fertility,
[1:07] for men and women, and my muscle mass.
[1:08] Yes. And then, probably going to be
[1:10] extremely winded walking upstairs.
[1:12] Likely have obesity and sleep apnea,
[1:13] which means you're deteriorating your
[1:15] brain and metabolic health, and it's all
[1:17] going to come down to choices. Our
[1:19] present choices will determine our
[1:21] outcomes. So, run me through your day
[1:23] cuz I'm just going to copy whatever you
[1:24] do. Great. Okay, so, what time do you
[1:26] wake up? What do you eat? How long do
[1:27] you train for? Are you calorie counting
[1:29] at this point? And what time is that
[1:30] last meal typically? Well,
[1:34] Question. If you could sit at a table
[1:36] with any four guests from the Diary of a
[1:38] CEO, who would you choose?
[1:40] Here's a challenge for the entire Diary
[1:42] of a CEO community. If we hit 10 million
[1:45] subscribers by the end of 2024, you will
[1:48] get to pick four guests for your dream
[1:50] conversation, and you can make it weird
[1:52] or you can make it wonderful. And here
[1:54] is the best part. 3,000 of you that
[1:57] subscribe will be invited to join this
[1:59] conversation live, in person, and for
[2:03] free.
[2:04] Subscribe now and let's make this happen
[2:06] together.
[2:08] [Music]
[2:11] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon.
[2:13] What is it that you do for people?
[2:16] I believe that I take away any physical
[2:19] restrictions.
[2:20] And I certainly feel privileged to take
[2:23] care of people that change the world.
[2:25] And when you say physical restrictions,
[2:27] give me some flavor and color as to what
[2:29] I mean.
[2:29] Yeah, you know, when we think about the
[2:32] way in which humans are,
[2:33] sometimes they have low energy or
[2:37] hormonal problems or gastrointestinal
[2:39] problems, you name it, but those things
[2:42] limit their ability to show up in the
[2:43] world.
[2:44] No matter how high-performing or how
[2:47] high-achieving,
[2:48] the common denominator is their health.
[2:51] And nobody will ever go higher than
[2:54] their own personal health. It is the
[2:56] great equalizer, that and age.
[2:59] And who do you do it for? Give me a
[3:01] flavor of the people you've worked with
[3:02] and the walks of life they come from and
[3:04] what they do.
[3:05] Well, I've been a physician for 20
[3:07] years, and there has been a number of
[3:10] patients and kinds from geriatrics. I
[3:13] did my fellowship in geriatrics and
[3:15] aging.
[3:16] And when I finished that, I started a
[3:19] concierge medical practice.
[3:21] And I take care of, right now, many of
[3:23] the guests who have been on this
[3:25] podcast, like, um, Evy Poumpouras and,
[3:29] um, yeah, woman named Danica Patrick. I
[3:31] don't know if you know who that is.
[3:33] She's a race car driver extraordinary.
[3:36] And many Tier 1 operators, like Navy
[3:39] SEALs and CEOs,
[3:42] individuals that are out there that are
[3:43] mavericks, really trying to change the
[3:45] world.
[3:46] And one of the things that happens is
[3:48] individuals have this capacity to push
[3:50] through any way that they are feeling.
[3:52] But, the cost of that is very
[3:54] predictable.
[3:55] And in my clinical practice, and part of
[3:58] what I believe that I was put on this
[3:59] earth to do, is to help people who help
[4:03] change the world.
[4:05] So, when people come to you and your
[4:07] practice, what is it that they typically
[4:08] say? What is it that the most typical
[4:11] thing that they're searching for and how
[4:12] do they articulate that?
[4:14] That is a wonderful question, and one of
[4:16] the things that they say is they feel
[4:18] like they know they could feel better,
[4:20] that they could have more energy, better
[4:22] sleep, you name it, that they just have
[4:24] this sense that something is still on
[4:27] the table.
[4:28] And we figure it out.
[4:30] We go through whether it's environmental
[4:32] testing, again, hormones, blood work. A
[4:35] lot of my patients have been deployed
[4:37] overseas. They come back, they've been
[4:39] to Mayo Clinic and all these other
[4:41] places, but
[4:43] they still don't get better. And I think
[4:46] wellness and health is very holistic
[4:49] in
[4:51] the approach.
[4:52] And I am telling you, once that is taken
[4:55] care of,
[4:57] these people
[4:58] are already making such an impact, but
[5:00] then they can go on because they're not
[5:02] encumbered
[5:03] by
[5:04] inflammation or not feeling well, or
[5:07] let's say their body composition is off.
[5:09] Let's say they are someone who's always
[5:11] been a high achiever and high performer,
[5:14] I don't know, they hit midlife and all
[5:16] of a sudden things have changed.
[5:18] It's my job to help remove any of those
[5:21] physiological restrictions so that they
[5:23] can do what they do best and not worry
[5:25] about the other things.
[5:27] Is it complicated
[5:29] what you propose? Are your solutions
[5:31] complicated or are they simple?
[5:34] Another great question. It really
[5:36] depends on what it is that we're looking
[5:38] at.
[5:39] The most complicated
[5:42] of all of it is actually not the
[5:44] physical.
[5:45] It is definitely the mental.
[5:47] Because you have to understand that I
[5:49] think
[5:51] a physician needs to be very good at
[5:54] being able to
[5:55] recognize patterns and diagnose patterns
[5:57] of disease.
[5:59] But, an effective physician is able to
[6:01] recognize patterns of people.
[6:04] Because people are extraordinarily
[6:06] predictable in their nature. I'm going
[6:08] to give you an example. You're looking
[6:10] at me. There's an eyebrow raise. Mhm.
[6:13] I had, I'll tell you about one one
[6:15] patient in particular, and every year he
[6:17] put on this massive event. This massive
[6:20] event in Vegas, made millions of
[6:22] dollars, did well, and every year I
[6:26] would wait for the phone call.
[6:29] I'm feeling depressed.
[6:30] I just did so well. I don't know what's
[6:32] wrong with me. I'm off my diet. I don't
[6:34] work out. I All the litany of things.
[6:37] And
[6:38] what he failed to recognize was as high
[6:41] as he was going,
[6:42] was as low as he was going to fall.
[6:44] And I see that with all my Type A
[6:47] individuals. I wouldn't say that there's
[6:49] a particular
[6:50] demographic of patient, whether they're
[6:52] SEALs or CEOs or moms, but it is
[6:54] definitely a mindset.
[6:56] And the individuals that I see, they
[6:58] want the best out of themselves.
[7:01] And the other side of that, and I'm sure
[7:05] you know many of these high performers,
[7:07] they drive really hard.
[7:10] But, they fail to recognize that as high
[7:11] as they go,
[7:13] after a book launch, and maybe you
[7:14] experienced this with your own book,
[7:17] you work so hard,
[7:19] you
[7:20] launch this book into the world, or
[7:21] maybe your first massively successful
[7:23] episode, which now maybe a little bit
[7:26] less because they're all massively
[7:27] successful,
[7:28] but right after that, there's this dip.
[7:32] And you don't go back to a baseline.
[7:33] It's not like any other Tuesday. It's
[7:37] a very big high and a very big low.
[7:40] And one has to recognize that nothing
[7:42] will take someone off any kind of health
[7:45] and wellness journey faster than those
[7:46] lows. And is that psychology or is that
[7:49] physiology? I is that my mind and my
[7:51] thoughts or is that my biology and
[7:53] what's going on in my head? My
[7:55] perspective is that it's physiology.
[7:57] There is an internal
[7:59] recognition or interpretation of the
[8:01] stress,
[8:02] but from my perspective, there is a
[8:05] physiological response.
[8:07] And from what I can tell and what I
[8:09] believe and what I've seen is this
[8:11] dopamine drive. It's, and of course,
[8:13] this is a simplistic way of
[8:15] talking about it, but there's this
[8:17] drive, and they are so excited, they're
[8:21] amped up, they've
[8:22] spent a ton of time in preparation
[8:25] getting ready
[8:26] to do this thing, and they've
[8:29] deployed so much importance on this one
[8:31] thing that when that thing is over,
[8:34] they're constantly grasping for the next
[8:35] thing.
[8:36] And we all talk about burnout as this
[8:38] thing, and burnout happens that way.
[8:42] And it's this drive of more.
[8:44] And once you can recalibrate that drive
[8:47] and understand that you have to have a
[8:49] very neutral mindset going into things,
[8:53] then people are able to mitigate and
[8:56] manage their own physiology.
[8:59] The mindset component is probably the
[9:02] most important because I could give you
[9:04] the perfect plan,
[9:06] but if you are unable to to execute
[9:08] that, then it doesn't matter.
[9:10] There must be so many millions of people
[9:12] that listen to my podcast that have
[9:13] heard all of this advice
[9:15] in terms of how to better themselves,
[9:17] their cognition, their performance in
[9:19] various aspects, and they still haven't
[9:22] put any of it into motion for whatever
[9:24] reason. And you must experience that,
[9:26] too, in your practice where someone
[9:27] comes to you, you tell them what to do,
[9:29] but the how part is
[9:31] sort of contingent on them having some
[9:33] kind of motivation or discipline or
[9:35] whatever it is. Um,
[9:36] from my perspective, it's worthiness.
[9:38] Interesting. It's when it comes down to
[9:41] the fundamentals, it's does this person
[9:43] feel worthy of having the health and
[9:46] wellness Really? that they they Yes,
[9:48] that they desire.
[9:50] And if a person doesn't feel worthy of
[9:52] doing it or worthy of having it, they
[9:54] will sabotage themselves.
[9:57] Once I explained this predictable human
[9:59] nature to this patient of mine,
[10:02] the game plan was he was going to be
[10:04] neutral. He didn't go too high, he
[10:06] didn't go too low, and there's very
[10:08] specific strategies that we can talk
[10:09] about the way in which one maintains
[10:11] neutrality,
[10:13] but at the end of the day he felt worthy
[10:14] of feeling really good.
[10:17] We covered intermittent reward, we
[10:19] covered not celebrating every win,
[10:22] um conscious
[10:24] uh conscious turning it on and turning
[10:26] it off, very controlled dynamic
[10:28] expression of what the goal was.
[10:32] Turning it on, turning it off, right? I
[10:33] see this My husband is a former Navy
[10:34] SEAL. I see this in this group of
[10:37] individuals all the time. They're able
[10:38] to have controlled intensity.
[10:41] But the other individuals that never
[10:43] seem to get better, so the individuals
[10:45] listening to this,
[10:47] the one thing that they would have to
[10:49] really settle in on is do they feel
[10:51] worthy?
[10:52] And if someone does not address at the
[10:55] core that they feel worthy
[10:57] of executing the information that you
[11:00] and so many others are providing, they
[11:02] will never make the change.
[11:05] Discipline, motivation, discipline is
[11:07] easy. It's not difficult.
[11:09] There are constructs in our mind that
[11:12] may tell us it's easier to
[11:14] oversleep or not go to the gym, but at
[11:16] the end of the day discipline can be
[11:18] practiced. It's not hard. Motivation is
[11:20] another thing, but who waits on
[11:22] motivation to execute? Nobody.
[11:25] I mean, you shouldn't because that is a
[11:27] perishable feeling,
[11:30] but understanding that this worthiness
[11:32] has to be addressed before people are
[11:34] going to make any kind of change
[11:37] becomes critical.
[11:38] And typically it comes back to
[11:42] what they tell themselves on a daily
[11:44] basis, how they interpret their
[11:45] environment.
[11:47] Maybe they experience everything as
[11:48] stressful
[11:50] and don't feel worthy of taking action
[11:54] to get out of that distraction of
[11:55] stress.
[11:57] So if I came to you and I exhibited
[11:59] worthy worthlessness, I didn't think I
[12:01] was worth much in my corner and you
[12:03] could start to pick up on it. Maybe I
[12:04] was
[12:05] I don't know, I was carrying myself in a
[12:07] certain way, my body language, the way I
[12:08] was talking about myself subtly. I was
[12:11] putting myself down. Um
[12:13] and maybe you maybe there's other things
[12:15] going on and you go, "Do you know what?
[12:16] This guy doesn't think he's worthy."
[12:18] Where would you start with me? Well,
[12:19] first of all, I would let you come to
[12:21] that conclusion. Okay. The first thing
[12:22] that I would do is I would say, "Steven,
[12:24] how are you sleeping?
[12:26] Are you really sleeping well?"
[12:28] And I would guess maybe you're not.
[12:30] Maybe you're staying up late, your mind
[12:31] is always going, you're really thinking
[12:33] about things.
[12:35] I would ask you how you're sleeping, how
[12:37] are you eating, how's your digestion,
[12:38] what are you being exposed to?
[12:40] And then I would give you a handful of
[12:42] tasks.
[12:44] I would tell you you got to get your
[12:45] blood work done. You have to do a sleep
[12:47] study.
[12:48] You know, we have to address what's
[12:49] going on gastrointestinally.
[12:51] Are you reacting to certain foods?
[12:53] And
[12:55] maybe you'll get that done or maybe you
[12:56] won't.
[12:57] But if you came to me and said, "I am
[12:59] not feeling the best version of myself."
[13:02] I would say, "Are you ready to figure
[13:04] out what this is?" And then I give you
[13:05] lip service and I say, "Yes, I am,
[13:07] doctor." Yeah, and then we would have to
[13:09] have a real conversation.
[13:11] Because there's this interesting kind of
[13:13] segue.
[13:15] CEOs, and again, a large portion of my
[13:17] population are CEOs, is they will The
[13:20] predictable course is they're too busy
[13:22] to get it done.
[13:23] It's not a worthiness
[13:25] aspect, but it is they're too busy. But
[13:27] again, health is the great equalizer.
[13:29] There will come a point that is very
[13:31] predictable
[13:33] that they will call me.
[13:34] Um again, many of your guests have
[13:35] called me saying, "Hey, G, I'm not
[13:38] feeling
[13:38] well. My stomach is really bothering me.
[13:40] I feel like it's sour, I'm not sleeping
[13:42] well, you name it."
[13:44] And I go, "Okay, well, did you knock out
[13:45] these five tests that we had to get
[13:48] done?" And they might say,
[13:51] "No."
[13:53] Six months,
[13:54] they will come to a point where they
[13:56] will have to get it done.
[13:57] Once they get those testing done,
[14:00] now we start seeing the worthiness
[14:02] aspect.
[14:04] Now we have evidence of what needs to
[14:06] change.
[14:07] And those individuals that execute on
[14:09] those change typically will understand
[14:12] the importance of
[14:14] the long game, right? If you want to be
[14:16] as successful as you can,
[14:18] be a maverick and make a mark and do all
[14:20] of your
[14:22] potential, leave all of your potential
[14:24] on the table.
[14:25] The only way that you are going to be
[14:26] able to do that is to liberate your
[14:28] health.
[14:30] You have to. You cannot push past how
[14:33] you are feeling. This worthiness thing
[14:35] is really interesting to me.
[14:37] Um because I do I can relate when I
[14:38] think about certain people in my life
[14:40] that have been unable to make the change
[14:43] despite having all the resources, the
[14:45] time, but it's hard to know if they have
[14:47] the time because sometimes people use
[14:49] that as an excuse. Well, also, Steven,
[14:52] if people don't have time for health and
[14:55] wellness, how are they going to have
[14:57] time for sickness?
[14:59] Mhm. That's so much more time consuming.
[15:04] Mhm.
[15:05] But they just People don't assume that
[15:07] they're going to get sick.
[15:09] Getting sick is a surprise.
[15:11] But is it? I mean, it is it appears to
[15:14] be for most people. They just We all
[15:15] kind of live in Think about how we live
[15:17] and the decisions we make in the short
[15:19] term, it's evident that we don't believe
[15:21] we're going to either die or get sick.
[15:23] Which is a huge failure of our culture.
[15:26] Um you know, when I think about
[15:28] longevity and I think about aging and I
[15:30] think about the individuals that fall
[15:33] and break their hip and end up in a
[15:34] hospital bed because they haven't
[15:36] trained or haven't taken care of this
[15:39] this body which we only get one,
[15:42] there is a predictable endpoint.
[15:46] It is happening and we spend all this
[15:48] time trying to
[15:50] increase this concept of anti-aging. We
[15:53] are aging. Aging is not a disease.
[15:56] How we do it is largely up to us.
[16:00] And if we can
[16:02] condense this future version of
[16:04] ourselves to now
[16:06] and understand not just the
[16:08] physical
[16:10] attributes, but also the mental
[16:12] attributes that will require us
[16:15] to move forward, then
[16:18] people would begin to take action.
[16:21] Can you tell when you meet someone if
[16:23] they're going to make the changes that
[16:25] you describe and that you suggest very
[16:27] quickly? Yes.
[16:29] And what are the hallmarks of someone?
[16:31] They're like archetypes. Okay. You know,
[16:33] there is the CEO archetype which I'm
[16:35] telling you they are going to put it off
[16:37] for good 3 to 6 months
[16:39] and eventually they will get it done.
[16:40] And once they get it done, they will
[16:43] stay on top of it. They will get it done
[16:45] because they recognize that their
[16:47] physicality is the common denominator
[16:49] cuz they are in it to be the best
[16:51] version of themselves. Mhm. And then
[16:53] there are other people that have gone to
[16:55] 13 other physicians and
[16:59] have lost hope in the system. Mhm. And
[17:02] those individuals or maybe they had a
[17:04] physician that said something to them
[17:06] and it really scarred them.
[17:08] Those individuals will be very resistant
[17:11] to execution, but once you earn their
[17:14] trust, they'll get the job done.
[17:16] Mhm.
[17:17] And then there are individuals that
[17:20] really struggle with worthiness.
[17:22] That part of them wants to evolve, maybe
[17:24] they had an old trauma,
[17:26] maybe they had a physical trauma or
[17:29] something
[17:31] that really
[17:33] really shook them.
[17:34] And the trauma can be like a little T
[17:36] trauma or a big T trauma. Yeah. It could
[17:38] be a small thing that dad left, they
[17:40] Yeah. you know.
[17:42] Or it could be something bigger,
[17:44] more horrific. Absolutely. And one of
[17:46] the things that we see is
[17:48] there is this interpretation of stress.
[17:51] And people think stress is all fight or
[17:53] flight. And we should try to de-stress
[17:55] and take a hot bubble bath, but we
[17:58] actually evolved to
[18:00] manage and mitigate stress as humans.
[18:02] We're much stronger than
[18:04] we recognize and there are additional
[18:06] stress responses that we don't talk
[18:08] about. And we know from work out of
[18:10] Stanford and
[18:12] uh other individuals' labs that what you
[18:14] believe about an experience is how your
[18:17] physiology will show up about that
[18:18] experience. So for example, there was a
[18:20] hotel caretaker study. So you could call
[18:22] it
[18:23] a maid study where they looked at two
[18:26] groups of housekeepers.
[18:29] One group they said, "What you're doing
[18:30] is amazing.
[18:31] You are definitely getting physical
[18:33] activity. Here's all the positives." And
[18:35] the other one the other group they just
[18:38] went about their day and you know, maybe
[18:40] they were told that they should do
[18:41] physical activity or not, but at the end
[18:43] of the the housekeeper study, those
[18:45] individuals that were told that what
[18:48] they were doing
[18:49] was in part like physical activity
[18:52] showed low and that they didn't need to
[18:54] do any more of what they were doing was
[18:55] amazing.
[18:56] Those individuals had lower blood
[18:58] pressure, they had better glucose
[19:00] regulation, better
[19:02] insulin, they had lost a little bit of
[19:04] weight, and it was all their
[19:06] interpretation of the environment they
[19:08] were in.
[19:09] We tell people that the world is so
[19:12] stressful
[19:13] and that everything your internal
[19:15] response is fight or flight.
[19:17] But we have one word to describe
[19:20] a million different things and we call
[19:22] that stress. I'll give you an example.
[19:24] A pet dies
[19:26] or you have um a white sofa and your
[19:29] kids just spilled coffee all over it.
[19:33] Or you break up with a loved one or
[19:35] there's a death of a spouse. We have one
[19:36] word
[19:37] and we call that stress.
[19:39] That's it. We have one word to define
[19:41] a million different things.
[19:43] We live in an environment where people
[19:45] talk about I'm so stressed and this is
[19:47] stressful, but
[19:49] that
[19:50] we don't have any other word in the
[19:52] English language
[19:53] to globally define something.
[19:56] Maybe that word could be love, but
[19:59] not really, not in the way that we talk
[20:01] about stress. So,
[20:03] people think about stress as fight or
[20:04] flight. That severely limits both their
[20:07] physiology and their capacity.
[20:09] The other two stress responses, which
[20:11] are much more enhancing, is tend and
[20:14] befriend, which releases oxytocin, which
[20:17] makes people more capable. It makes them
[20:20] more connected. This is the they're
[20:22] stressed, yet they go to help other
[20:23] people immediately. That's also a stress
[20:26] response.
[20:27] Or the courage response. The courage
[20:29] response, we see that with a lot of
[20:30] military operators.
[20:32] A moment of stress, they're immediately
[20:35] taking action. I'll give you an example.
[20:38] If both myself and my husband were
[20:39] getting read ready to jump out of a
[20:41] plane, I would be terrified, and he
[20:44] would be excited to do it. He would be
[20:46] eliciting courage.
[20:48] We're both in the same experience, but
[20:50] he is having one of courage, and I am
[20:54] having one of fight or flight.
[20:57] When we both jump out of the airplane,
[20:59] who do you think is going to be more
[21:00] capable to get up and do the next thing?
[21:03] Your husband. That's right.
[21:05] I would still be
[21:06] in this fear response, probably take me
[21:10] at least a couple hours to recalibrate,
[21:14] if not
[21:15] a day or a week.
[21:18] Whereas he has a response, which is
[21:20] courageous,
[21:22] and can be cultivated.
[21:24] His capacity to then not only experience
[21:27] new things, but continue on
[21:31] will mitigate much of the physiological
[21:34] damage that would happen from these
[21:37] other fight or flight responses.
[21:40] And what I would say to that is fear is
[21:43] a normal response,
[21:45] but having courage is a choice. You must
[21:47] have You must have met people in your
[21:49] practice that walk in, and they've got
[21:51] some kind of trauma, which has led to
[21:53] their state of sort of unworthiness. How
[21:56] does one do anything about that when you
[21:58] can't go back and write the wrongs of
[22:00] their past, and
[22:02] you know, I I I don't know if how much
[22:03] you want to
[22:05] dig into their psychology and become
[22:06] their their therapist to try and unpack
[22:08] some of that stuff, but if these things
[22:10] are so deeply hardwired into them in
[22:12] some way, you know, some early childhood
[22:14] trauma that's stopping them feeling
[22:15] worthy, which is stopping them having
[22:17] {quote} and {unquote} motivation to
[22:19] change.
[22:20] Do you just give up on the person?
[22:22] Never. What could you do? And can you
[22:23] give me a specific example when that's
[22:25] happened? Well, the first thing that I
[22:27] would tell you is
[22:29] I would turn to a coach.
[22:32] I have an extraordinary coach, and his
[22:34] name is Jim Kwik.
[22:37] He is
[22:38] He's worked with myself, helped make
[22:40] that book possible, as as well as other
[22:43] individuals whom you know.
[22:46] And
[22:47] that requires someone who is really
[22:49] willing to go in and dissect that.
[22:51] I have to know where physiology ends and
[22:54] psychology begins.
[22:56] I will also say I trained in psychiatry
[22:57] for 2 years.
[22:59] And the mind was, of course, the most
[23:02] fascinating part for me at first. That's
[23:05] actually what brought me into my work
[23:07] with the military that I do today.
[23:10] I will tell you that if I were to think
[23:13] of
[23:14] a very particular
[23:17] patient, I will.
[23:18] She had a lot of trouble sleeping.
[23:22] And this woman, we later found out we
[23:24] did everything. We did a sleep test.
[23:28] Didn't have sleep apnea.
[23:30] Was extremely unsettled.
[23:32] Really um
[23:34] had hormonal problems, put her on
[23:36] hormone replacement, still really
[23:37] struggled with sleep.
[23:39] Did all of the things that one would
[23:42] need to do, like a dark room.
[23:45] I know you had Andy Galpin on, he does
[23:47] talks about sleep and has absolute rest,
[23:49] and you know, we looked at her
[23:50] environment, did everything.
[23:52] At the end of the day, it turns out that
[23:55] the reason she wasn't sleeping is cuz
[23:56] she had been assaulted.
[23:58] And she had forgotten.
[24:00] But every time she would go to bed, her
[24:03] heart rate would spike. Um and it was
[24:05] something that
[24:07] that wasn't my domain,
[24:09] but I knew that she had to really
[24:12] deconstruct that if she was ever going
[24:14] to move forward.
[24:16] Part of it is figuring out where
[24:20] there are weaknesses and vulnerabilities
[24:22] within a person.
[24:24] Because we think about the way that
[24:25] health care is set up, right, is that
[24:27] it's you see a doctor for 15 minutes,
[24:29] maybe it's a half an hour intake, and
[24:31] then you're on to the next.
[24:32] But a real therapeutic relationship is
[24:35] exactly that. It is a real relationship.
[24:38] It is not transactional.
[24:40] If you are a physician, you know, being
[24:41] a physician, it used to be a very
[24:43] honorable thing, and they were on the
[24:46] council for people. It was
[24:49] you know, they were your right hand.
[24:52] And we have really changed from that.
[24:55] You know, I'm talking about maybe in the
[24:56] 1800s.
[24:58] It was a very honorable, privileged
[25:00] position, and I still believe it is
[25:02] that.
[25:03] And so part of moving people to from
[25:06] where they are to a level of wholeness
[25:09] requires being a teammate.
[25:11] Do you try and motivate people? All the
[25:13] time.
[25:14] that's part of your your remit
[25:16] as a physician to motivate them? Part of
[25:18] my
[25:20] job as a physician is seeing what they
[25:23] are capable of. Mhm.
[25:25] Is seeing what their true potential is.
[25:28] And to push them? Yeah.
[25:31] Do Do some Do sometimes people need a
[25:32] bit more pain
[25:33] before they
[25:34] Yes. And then I mean, this speaks to
[25:36] what what's going on with like
[25:37] motivation and discipline, because if
[25:38] you need a little bit more fear and a
[25:40] little bit more pain, then it kind of
[25:42] illuminates what this what's actually
[25:43] going on with people's motivation. You
[25:45] can almost put it into a formula where
[25:48] like the strength of their their why
[25:50] is at one side of the that equation, and
[25:53] then there's some some other factors in
[25:56] the equation, but it seems to start with
[25:57] the strength of their why, and pain,
[25:59] more fear, a bad result seems to amplify
[26:03] their why to the point they go, "Okay,
[26:04] [ __ ] it, I'm going to do something about
[26:05] this now."
[26:05] Yes.
[26:06] And I think that there is a potential to
[26:10] not wait till that happens, because it's
[26:11] very predictable.
[26:13] You know, and if someone is listening to
[26:14] this or thinking about it, you don't
[26:16] need to have to wait to get to that
[26:18] point, because that point of breakdown's
[26:21] going to come.
[26:22] And you might as well get ahead of it.
[26:24] You can only push so far.
[26:27] Your original question is, do I think
[26:28] that part of my job is to motivate
[26:30] people? Yes.
[26:32] Do I think it is also to see their
[26:34] weaknesses and vulnerabilities?
[26:36] Being a physician and and taking care of
[26:39] some of the most extraordinary people
[26:42] in the world, you get to see behind the
[26:44] scenes.
[26:45] And the people that are doing
[26:47] extraordinary things,
[26:49] their characteristics are actually not
[26:52] that different.
[26:54] They are often times extremely motivated
[26:57] by service.
[26:59] They are It's not a self-service, it's
[27:02] an other service.
[27:04] And when you can tap into say, "Hey,
[27:06] listen, in order for you to really be
[27:08] able to expand your reach,
[27:11] grow this legacy, change the world,
[27:14] then we have to fall back on
[27:17] the things that you are completely
[27:19] ignoring." And again, uh vulnerability
[27:21] is hard for people,
[27:23] but exposing that and letting them come
[27:25] to those conclusions,
[27:27] then
[27:28] you see a full evolution of a person.
[27:31] You How many I mean, how many patients
[27:33] do you think you've seen over the last
[27:34] Thousands. Why do you do what you do?
[27:38] I
[27:39] find the greatest joy,
[27:41] aside from my kids and my husband and my
[27:44] family,
[27:45] being able to be of service. Why? Well,
[27:48] I would say that I'm always I've always
[27:50] been wired to be this way.
[27:51] I have always been wired to take care of
[27:55] people.
[27:56] And I would say right now, when I think
[27:58] about
[28:00] my patients like Danica, or um some of
[28:03] the other entrepreneurs that you've had
[28:05] on,
[28:06] I believe that no one is going to be
[28:08] able to get the job done better than me,
[28:11] and is going to care more.
[28:14] And
[28:16] it feels really good to be able to be
[28:18] there for people.
[28:20] Are you a happy person? Yes. For the
[28:22] most part, I would say I have a very
[28:24] positive disposition.
[28:26] I do. What are the seasons of
[28:27] unhappiness in your life?
[28:30] I think during training was very hard
[28:33] for me, during my fellowship.
[28:35] Saw a lot of death.
[28:37] That was really hard.
[28:41] Work a lot of hours, see a lot of death.
[28:44] That was hard.
[28:46] You still remember that? Oh, yeah.
[28:48] Changed you? Yeah.
[28:50] That's why I got into social media.
[28:53] I had just finished my fellowship, um
[28:57] 2015,
[28:59] and I hadn't been on social media or
[29:00] anything.
[29:02] And I had just been, you know, you go
[29:04] through
[29:05] and you see patient after patient,
[29:08] and
[29:09] you know, none of them are getting out
[29:10] of the hospital. They're all going to
[29:12] die there.
[29:14] Can you imagine?
[29:15] So, you're seeing 30
[29:17] 30 patients a day.
[29:20] This one is on pain meds, you know this
[29:22] one is going to die. This one is
[29:24] 18, and she's going to die, and she's
[29:26] planning her wedding, but she has um
[29:28] She's planning her wedding? She was
[29:30] never going to be able to She
[29:32] had um cystic fibrosis.
[29:34] There was nothing that they could do for
[29:35] her.
[29:36] And she was never going to have a chance
[29:38] to get married or do anything. And she
[29:40] was planning her wedding? She wanted to
[29:41] pretend like she was going to be able to
[29:44] get married.
[29:45] Picked her dress to
[29:48] have an experience she was never going
[29:49] to have.
[29:51] And um
[29:54] you know, during that time
[29:58] I
[29:59] you know, as I was coming out of
[30:01] fellowship in 2015
[30:03] I was seeing all this BS on social
[30:05] media.
[30:06] These people talking about you know,
[30:09] this cleanse and this fake diet and this
[30:12] like all of this stuff and the
[30:13] information was so bad.
[30:15] That
[30:18] I felt responsible. That if I had
[30:21] the privilege to have, you know, had a
[30:23] 17-year education
[30:25] and I've seen all of this stuff and then
[30:28] to not say anything that I knew was
[30:30] going to make a difference or be
[30:31] impactful for people's health and
[30:33] wellness.
[30:35] The end comes.
[30:37] The decisions you make become critical.
[30:40] But where it really becomes critical is
[30:42] in the beginning.
[30:43] The children and then at the end.
[30:46] And if you start hearing all of this
[30:49] narrative of how we you know
[30:52] um
[30:54] should reduce our dietary protein and do
[30:56] all these other things and destroy our
[30:58] skeletal muscle based on this input that
[31:00] we're getting.
[31:01] The information was so wrong
[31:04] that I felt a responsibility to say
[31:07] something and if
[31:09] I didn't, I would be contributing to the
[31:11] same problem.
[31:13] But it was very hard.
[31:15] It was very hard.
[31:17] Does that come at a cost? The the the
[31:19] caring.
[31:19] Yes. Yes. Yes, it does. Nobody has ever
[31:22] asked me that.
[31:24] Yes, it does.
[31:26] It um and this might not be the best
[31:30] trait, but I am
[31:32] willing to
[31:34] be there at midnight, at 1:00 if someone
[31:38] needs something.
[31:40] I got it.
[31:41] And yes, does that come
[31:44] at a cost to myself? It does. And my
[31:47] family? It does.
[31:49] I am very careful about protecting the
[31:51] time. But um
[31:55] yeah, it's
[31:57] Is there an emotional cost to this as
[31:58] well? Because if I if I was every day I
[32:00] was waking up and I was
[32:01] being involved with other people's
[32:03] problems in such a way, other people's
[32:05] challenges, their sickness, their
[32:06] illness, their
[32:07] their death.
[32:09] I
[32:10] I don't know if I'd need some strategies
[32:12] to to cope with that. Like
[32:14] getting invested in somebody and then
[32:15] seeing a bad outcome. And feel that sort
[32:18] of feeling of like, what could I have
[32:20] done? Or
[32:21] you know.
[32:22] Well, luckily um
[32:25] my patients are no longer, knock on
[32:27] wood, life or death. We are dealing with
[32:29] things like um
[32:32] hey, you live in a toxic mold
[32:34] environment or you have Lyme. Um we can
[32:37] move past this or hey, you have COVID
[32:40] and you're in Washington, let me get
[32:42] some Paxlovid sent to you. Or
[32:45] um maybe this person is going through a
[32:47] bad breakup or
[32:49] their thyroid is off.
[32:51] It's light in that way. I mean,
[32:53] sometimes I have to send people to the
[32:54] hospital.
[32:56] But it's no longer caring for end of
[32:58] life, but
[32:59] now
[33:01] it is positive and
[33:04] it is challenging.
[33:07] But
[33:08] again, I've been a physician for 20
[33:10] years.
[33:11] You build up capacity.
[33:13] I was thinking the other day about some
[33:14] of the like mind cuz
[33:17] a good idea that infiltrates your mind
[33:21] can change your life. Yeah. Because it's
[33:22] kind of like corrective. It like it's
[33:24] almost like it goes in there like a
[33:25] vaccine and it attacks a a mind virus
[33:28] that you had. Something that was holding
[33:30] you back, some kind of limiting belief
[33:32] about the nature of life.
[33:35] In your work, what are those kind of
[33:36] mind viruses, those myths that people
[33:39] carry with them that ultimately inhibit
[33:41] their chance of becoming this optimal
[33:43] performer that you want them to be?
[33:45] There's a handful of things and also we
[33:47] have to recognize that we're talking
[33:48] about two things, physiology and
[33:49] psychology.
[33:51] From a
[33:54] physiology, from a physical perspective,
[33:57] there is a one of the things that is
[34:00] extremely detrimental is this
[34:02] comparison.
[34:03] Individuals that compare themselves
[34:06] physically to other people will stay
[34:08] hooked in.
[34:10] That typically is a comparison of youth.
[34:13] As individuals mature in their late 30s,
[34:16] 40s, I do see that dissipate. But if
[34:19] that doesn't dissipate, they will
[34:21] continue to hone in on this physical
[34:24] readiness and that allows for certainty.
[34:27] So, think about this.
[34:29] We all see
[34:32] amazing athletes or people that are in
[34:34] incredible are incredible shape. And
[34:36] your ultimate question is, what are the
[34:38] things that limit, whether it's a mind
[34:40] virus or something limiting to allow
[34:42] somebody to become
[34:44] the best version of themselves, an
[34:45] uninhibited version of themselves or
[34:47] unencumbered from a physical standpoint.
[34:50] When an individual is solely focused on
[34:52] the physicality Mhm.
[34:54] and that can be from a looks perspective
[34:58] that can be from, you know, my husband
[34:59] always tells me stories about those guys
[35:02] that go into SEAL training.
[35:04] The first guys to wash out, this is what
[35:06] he tells me, were always the great
[35:07] athletes.
[35:08] Because they had trained physically.
[35:11] They were capable of dealing with
[35:14] certainty.
[35:15] You throw a ball, you know how to do
[35:17] that.
[35:19] They hadn't prepared themselves for
[35:21] mental uncertainty or fortitude. And
[35:24] this circles back to this. So, the
[35:26] individuals that are fully focused on
[35:28] this external comparison, it's about
[35:30] looking good, it's about being fit, it's
[35:32] about having more plastic surgery, less
[35:34] wrinkles, whatever it is.
[35:36] Those individuals are chasing a game
[35:38] that they will never catch.
[35:40] The perspective is wrong.
[35:42] We all get older.
[35:44] We all will at some point not be as
[35:48] physically capable
[35:50] as we are now. You're in your How old
[35:53] are you? 31. Oof. Getting up there. Mhm.
[35:57] You are 31.
[35:57] getting up there? You mean I'm getting
[35:58] old.
[35:59] No, I cannot talk. Um
[36:02] but there is this physical capacity that
[36:05] if you were to just say, Gabriel
[36:08] let's just focus on the physical.
[36:10] Then we know by the time you are 50 and
[36:12] listen, 50 is not a great number because
[36:14] we I a ton of amazing fit 50-year-olds.
[36:17] But when you are 80, if all you did was
[36:20] look at that physically, by the time you
[36:24] were
[36:25] more mature
[36:27] you
[36:29] would become, and I don't want to say
[36:31] more depressed, but this if your world
[36:33] is purely external
[36:35] there is an inevitable decline in that.
[36:37] And you know what I'm talking about,
[36:38] right?
[36:39] Time is against you. It's going to
[36:40] happen.
[36:41] You know, your skin is going to sag,
[36:44] whatever it is. Hopefully it doesn't,
[36:45] but
[36:46] those individuals that are fully
[36:47] externally focused those individuals
[36:50] really struggle with aging.
[36:52] And you will not focus on the things
[36:54] that matter.
[36:56] And that is a virus that will happen.
[36:57] You will always be comparing cuz it will
[36:58] bleed over to everything.
[37:01] How you manage your psychology will be
[37:03] how you manage your physiology.
[37:05] So, what should I be aiming at?
[37:07] What should in if I'm not going to be
[37:08] aiming at the physical attributes and
[37:10] the comparison what what kind of measure
[37:13] should I apply to myself to understand
[37:15] if I'm doing a good job?
[37:17] You should focus on physical readiness.
[37:20] But it shouldn't be about how you look.
[37:22] Okay. It should be about how you
[37:24] perform.
[37:25] When you think about gaining physical
[37:27] readiness it should be about the
[37:30] acquisition of skill the acquisition of
[37:33] strength.
[37:34] I talk a lot about muscle. I believe
[37:36] skeletal muscle is the organ of
[37:37] longevity.
[37:39] You should be focused on becoming
[37:41] physically strong.
[37:42] But the physical performance
[37:45] outcome, how you look, is not the end
[37:48] point. The idea that you are training
[37:50] for life able to, whether it is to run
[37:53] or to squat or to bench press or to get
[37:56] stronger in a meaningful tactical way
[38:00] you should continue to move that needle.
[38:02] A lot of people though, they we were
[38:03] talking before we started recording
[38:04] about how people are driven by like
[38:05] short-term incentives.
[38:07] And it's quite insane for someone to
[38:09] focus on a long-term incentive in the
[38:12] face of like a short-term incentive. So,
[38:14] if I if my short-term incentive is for
[38:17] someone in the office to think I'm hot
[38:19] or, you know, to find a partner, I'm
[38:21] going to be so focused on getting that
[38:23] blow dry.
[38:24] I'm going to want that like facial.
[38:26] And I'm going to if I've got, you know,
[38:27] an hour of free in a day, I'm going to
[38:29] aim at the facial, the blow dry. How can
[38:32] you convince me that that's a bad idea?
[38:34] Versus aiming it at, I don't know,
[38:36] building muscle or becoming physically
[38:38] strong.
[38:39] Time is finite.
[38:42] And we are given time.
[38:45] How we spend our time will determine our
[38:48] outcomes. It will determine where we're
[38:50] going. How globally strong we become
[38:53] because strength is clearly not
[38:54] physical. There is a level of global
[38:56] strength, which means
[38:58] becoming masterful at something. For
[39:00] example, you're masterful at business,
[39:03] at interviewing, at learning and
[39:06] thinking about people.
[39:08] If you were distracted and you could
[39:10] totally choose a life of distraction
[39:13] you could be distracted by the external
[39:16] shiny objects.
[39:17] Perfectly okay.
[39:19] But that outcome, if that becomes
[39:21] regretful
[39:23] then that becomes devastating.
[39:25] You know, um taking care of people at
[39:27] the end of life
[39:29] you hear a lot of regrets.
[39:32] And it wasn't that they wish they'd had
[39:34] another blow dry. And I know what you're
[39:36] saying is that how do we think about
[39:38] later life if we
[39:40] can't identify in the short term or take
[39:44] in the short term what makes us happy,
[39:46] right? We are thinking about I want this
[39:49] cake, I want this thing, I want to buy
[39:50] this car. Shout out to my husband, no we
[39:53] are not getting that Defender.
[39:55] But the short term is very limited.
[39:59] And we live in very fast-paced society
[40:03] that will tell us to embrace that.
[40:06] And to fight for that thing.
[40:09] But it only takes a moment of spending
[40:11] time with the elderly or the aging or
[40:14] people that are wiser than us
[40:17] to look back and say these are the
[40:19] moments that you can fully develop
[40:21] yourself. And again, from a physical
[40:24] standpoint, should you focus on physical
[40:25] readiness? Absolutely. You're 31, do you
[40:28] think it's going to be easier at 41?
[40:30] I hope so.
[40:32] We got to get you on a good program. Um
[40:34] I'll call Lane later, but
[40:37] you have to do these things.
[40:39] And you have to bring back into
[40:40] perspective what is important and what
[40:42] is valuable. I'm thinking about a
[40:44] particular friend of mine who I was
[40:46] describing there with the blow dry thing
[40:47] and and the like spray tan and the blow
[40:49] dry. They're they're you know,
[40:52] approaching 40, they're looking for a
[40:54] partner.
[40:55] They
[40:57] are spending any free time they have on
[40:59] the on the spray tan and the blow dry.
[41:00] Listen, I'm not not judging. I'm just
[41:02] saying that as a case study.
[41:03] and there's many people like that. And
[41:05] they're spending zero time on physical
[41:07] strength, don't go to a gym, don't go
[41:09] near it, don't do any exercise.
[41:11] And I'm just wondering, you know, how
[41:12] you make a case to that individual that
[41:14] actually to achieve the goal that they
[41:15] want to achieve, which might be to find
[41:17] a partner, actually it's the inverse.
[41:19] It's they should be doubling down on the
[41:21] internal versus the sort of surface. The
[41:25] first thing that this person is
[41:26] obviously driven by the external. Mhm.
[41:28] And you have to recognize that you
[41:30] cannot have
[41:32] a strong physical body if you are
[41:35] mentally weak.
[41:36] Because you will never feel good about
[41:38] what you are doing. You will be
[41:39] distracted. You will live a life of
[41:41] distraction that will then rob you of
[41:43] your future. Mhm.
[41:45] And the case I would make to your friend
[41:47] is
[41:48] these immediate distractions and being a
[41:51] good friend would be telling them this
[41:53] or allowing them
[41:55] to come to that understanding. When you
[41:57] say you can't have a strong body unless
[41:59] you have a strong mind, how are you
[42:00] defining and how do you define a strong
[42:03] body?
[42:05] You should be able to be physically
[42:06] capable in whatever it is that you want.
[42:08] Should you be able to do a pull-up?
[42:10] Probably. Should you be able to do at
[42:11] least 10 push-ups? Yes.
[42:15] Is that number different for everybody?
[42:18] Yes.
[42:19] If I asked you to please run a mile,
[42:21] could you do it and do it well?
[42:23] I think being and having physical
[42:26] sovereignty and being able to be in
[42:29] control of your body and to be strong
[42:31] and not require someone to help you with
[42:33] things. I mean, granted you probably
[42:34] couldn't lift a car by yourself or a
[42:36] bed, but
[42:38] But this
[42:39] But this becomes extremely important for
[42:41] our aging population and for where we
[42:43] are now.
[42:44] What do I mean by this? We are becoming
[42:46] increasingly weak as a society.
[42:50] The majority of individuals are moving
[42:53] towards obesity.
[42:55] Children are becoming more and more
[42:57] obese.
[42:59] Are they strong? Are they as strong as
[43:01] they could be from a physical
[43:02] perspective? I would say no.
[43:05] And again, you can choose
[43:07] a marker of goals to hit.
[43:11] Which I recommend that everyone does,
[43:14] whether it's squat,
[43:16] deadlift, you name it, run. But you have
[43:18] to be able to have accountability for
[43:22] your physicality. If you were going to
[43:24] be giving me goals to hit,
[43:26] right? And I don't necessarily mean like
[43:28] 10 reps, whatever, but just
[43:30] the types of goals that I should be
[43:32] aiming at to have a strong body,
[43:34] what what are those types of goals? So,
[43:35] you mentioned squatting there, you
[43:37] mentioned, you know, maybe being able to
[43:39] pull myself to run. Are these the kind
[43:41] of goals that you would give to me? So,
[43:43] say a 30 40-year-old, what kind of goals
[43:46] would you be aiming at? And are the
[43:46] goals different if I'm 50 and 60? They
[43:48] are.
[43:50] You should
[43:51] at a minimum
[43:53] And I'll give you an example. Um you
[43:55] should at a minimum be training 3 days a
[43:56] week with with weights, doing resistance
[43:59] training. You've had many uh you just
[44:01] had my friend Mike Israetel on. I mean,
[44:04] that guy, he is jacked. He could
[44:06] probably lift you with one hand and me
[44:08] with a pinky and he would be
[44:10] going all over the place.
[44:11] You should be training
[44:14] your muscles from a strength and or
[44:17] hypertrophy standpoint 3 days a week.
[44:20] Okay, so is that everyone? Yes. Everyone
[44:23] regardless of age?
[44:23] Yes. Yes. So That part is regardless of
[44:26] age three to
[44:27] Listen, could you get it done in 2 days
[44:29] a week, which is the recommendation?
[44:31] The current recommendation for activity
[44:33] is 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous
[44:35] activity and 2 days a week of resistance
[44:37] training. Is that going to be enough to
[44:40] keep you walking around? Yes. Is that
[44:43] going to be enough to evolve your body
[44:46] to
[44:48] manage and mitigate aging? No, it is
[44:51] not.
[44:53] We have to call ourselves to a higher
[44:54] standard. Three to four days a week.
[44:57] Four, you've added a day.
[44:58] Okay, well, I was going to say three. I
[44:59] was going easy on you. Three days a
[45:01] week. You should be doing And I only
[45:03] train I do resistance training 3 days a
[45:05] week. I might throw a fourth day in
[45:06] there. For anyone that doesn't know what
[45:08] resistance training is? Moving um
[45:11] your body or a load against
[45:16] um
[45:17] uh resistance. So, it would be for
[45:19] example, taking a weight and moving that
[45:22] through space, whether it is a squat or
[45:25] a bench press. These are all resistance
[45:28] training, moving against a resistance of
[45:30] some load. It could be body weight, it
[45:33] could be a band. Three days a week,
[45:35] everybody I mean, I'm I'm okay with 2
[45:37] days a week,
[45:39] but in an ideal world, it should be 3
[45:40] days a week.
[45:42] My recommendation is you train for
[45:44] muscle hypertrophy. Which is? Muscle
[45:46] growth.
[45:48] 10 to 20
[45:50] sets per muscle group a week. And how
[45:52] many reps?
[45:54] So, I would say
[45:56] um you could do a
[45:59] upper body, lower body split. You could
[46:01] do
[46:02] What's that? Um a push pull, like a
[46:04] bench press or a a back row. So,
[46:07] back and um chest. You could do full
[46:11] body training, which is which I think is
[46:13] the best for people. Compound movements
[46:15] like a squat or a deadlift. This is full
[46:18] body.
[46:19] You should be doing some kind of
[46:21] movement, but
[46:23] Stephen, if someone said, like my dad,
[46:26] before I came on this podcast, he
[46:28] FaceTimed, he lives in Ecuador, and he
[46:29] was doing resistance bands with bicep
[46:32] curls. Mhm. I'm okay with that.
[46:34] If you want to do that and that's how
[46:36] you're going to do your upper body or
[46:38] your arms,
[46:40] fine.
[46:41] So, it could be chest, back,
[46:44] you know, glutes, legs.
[46:46] Why should I be doing 3 days a week?
[46:48] What what am I going to get out of that?
[46:50] Make make the case to me.
[46:51] Number one, you are never going to
[46:53] regret being stronger.
[46:55] Period, end of story.
[46:56] You need to be physically strong.
[46:59] Skeletal muscle is the organ of
[47:01] longevity. It is not just about good
[47:04] looking good
[47:05] in a bathing suit. It helps, it's so
[47:07] great. Um your friend who is getting her
[47:10] hair blown out and doing all these other
[47:11] things,
[47:13] put her in some training and listen,
[47:15] she's probably going to be a killer.
[47:18] Skeletal muscle is your primary site for
[47:19] glucose metabolism, fatty acid
[47:21] metabolism, it's your glucose sink.
[47:24] If you decide that you want to eat
[47:26] carbohydrates and you care about
[47:28] metabolic health, you have to have
[47:29] skeletal muscle.
[47:32] You're not convinced yet, are you? I'm
[47:33] I'm listening. Okay, well, you're you're
[47:35] kind of like
[47:36] maybe convinced that you think skeletal
[47:38] muscle is important, but if I told you
[47:42] that this is your body armor,
[47:44] that if you are in the top 1/3
[47:46] of strength
[47:49] compared to if you are in the lower 1/3
[47:52] of strength,
[47:53] those that are in the lower 1/3 for
[47:56] strength
[47:57] have a 50% greater risk
[48:01] of dying from nearly anything.
[48:04] If you are in the lower 1/3 of strength,
[48:06] you have
[48:08] a roughly 50% chance
[48:11] of dying from all cause mortality.
[48:14] But I'm getting old, Dr. Lyon. I I'm I'm
[48:16] 58.
[48:17] Yeah. Um when people get old, they put
[48:19] on weight, they they lose muscle, we get
[48:22] weaker, we get frailer. This is what
[48:24] this is just the nature of life. Don't
[48:26] fight life. The first thing that I would
[48:28] say is congratulations making it to 58.
[48:30] Well done, sir. And then I would say
[48:32] that is totally not true. That is not
[48:34] what we see in the literature.
[48:36] Anyone at any time can get stronger and
[48:39] put on muscle.
[48:41] Anyone at any time can get stronger and
[48:44] put on muscle. Do you know what it is,
[48:45] yeah? Part of the reason why I think
[48:47] people don't believe that is because we
[48:50] look at our parents
[48:51] and our parents looked at our parents
[48:54] and our parent their parents looked at
[48:55] their parents and our parents are like a
[48:56] case study of what we what we should
[48:58] expect. They set the expectation. And
[49:00] when a lot of us look up at our our
[49:01] parents, we see people that are maybe
[49:04] have had a little bit of weight added,
[49:06] um maybe our dads have a bit of a pot
[49:08] belly because of all the beer they've
[49:09] been drinking or whatever. Yeah. Maybe
[49:11] they walk a little bit slower, they
[49:12] can't run, they're out of breath. So, we
[49:13] kind of just assume that that is normal
[49:16] and that's what we should expect of
[49:17] ourselves.
[49:18] And I think I I did that. I looked at my
[49:21] dad who um he's on a bit of a health
[49:23] journey at the moment, but before he was
[49:25] on that health journey, I did kind of I
[49:27] think at some point in my mind I
[49:28] conceded maybe that's just what like
[49:30] genetics do. They just give you a pot
[49:32] belly, they slow you down, you lose your
[49:34] muscle, you get weak. Yeah.
[49:38] That funny thing about humans is when we
[49:41] hear and see things over and over again,
[49:44] we believe them to be true whether they
[49:45] are or they're not.
[49:47] Humans are funny creatures in that they
[49:50] experience repetition as truth.
[49:52] What do I mean by that? I say, "Steven,
[49:55] this is stressful. This is stressful.
[49:57] Our fight or flight is the only way."
[49:59] And then you go, "You know what,
[50:00] Gabrielle? Fight or flight is the only
[50:01] way."
[50:02] That's all I've ever heard.
[50:03] We see our parents age
[50:05] and we believe that that's just the way
[50:08] that it is.
[50:10] But I can show you
[50:12] many
[50:14] individuals that are aging well and
[50:16] strong. Both of my parents are
[50:18] incredibly fit.
[50:20] Is that genetic? Maybe I picked my
[50:22] parents well.
[50:23] But what I will say is that the
[50:27] traditional
[50:28] framework of aging
[50:30] is in part the way that it is because we
[50:34] have divorced the idea of skeletal
[50:36] muscle
[50:38] from health.
[50:40] The bros got it right.
[50:42] You need to be jacked, you need to be
[50:43] tan, and
[50:45] if you're not jacked and tan or if you
[50:46] are,
[50:47] resistance training is only for
[50:51] the bros.
[50:53] Nothing could be further from the truth.
[50:55] And because of that thought process, we
[50:58] have divorced skeletal muscle health
[51:02] from overall health and wellness and
[51:04] longevity.
[51:05] If I as a trained geriatrician were to
[51:08] say,
[51:09] and by the way, I did 7 years of
[51:11] nutritional science training as well.
[51:13] If I were to tell you what is the one
[51:15] most important thing to take you through
[51:18] life,
[51:19] do you know what I would say? Probably
[51:20] muscle. That's right.
[51:24] Hands down, across the board,
[51:26] the weaker you are, the less muscle mass
[51:29] you have, the greater chances you will
[51:30] die. So, in terms of cardio, is do you
[51:34] think muscle mass is more important than
[51:36] cardiovascular exercise as you age?
[51:39] You're putting me in the hot seat, and I
[51:41] would say both we know are important.
[51:46] But
[51:47] again, both are very important.
[51:51] But there is no replacement for
[51:54] resistance training
[51:56] and muscle mass. There is none.
[51:59] You will not get the same stimulus by
[52:02] doing cardiovascular activity, and you
[52:04] need You mentioned your parents or your
[52:07] dad. You see and we see collectively
[52:11] our aging population shrink,
[52:14] right? They become thinner and and
[52:16] scrawnier and
[52:18] more sarcopenic. We see this happen.
[52:21] There is a transition of fiber types.
[52:23] There's different fiber types, and they
[52:25] transition from type two fiber types to
[52:28] type one. What is that? Type two are the
[52:30] big, bulky fibers
[52:33] that you train for hypertrophy, strength
[52:35] and hypertrophy for.
[52:36] There is a transition that happens if
[52:39] you are not constantly fertilizing these
[52:41] muscles through strength and hypertrophy
[52:44] training, through resistance exercise.
[52:47] If an individual is solely focused on
[52:49] cardiovascular activity, this will not
[52:53] maintain in a meaningful way
[52:55] these type two or bigger, bulky muscle
[52:57] fibers.
[53:00] When you lose skeletal muscle mass,
[53:02] you also see a change in metabolic
[53:05] health.
[53:07] Muscle is the primary site for glucose
[53:08] disposal.
[53:10] It is
[53:12] primary site for fatty acid oxidation.
[53:15] When you
[53:17] lose skeletal muscle,
[53:19] you see an increase in
[53:22] blood sugar, insulin, type two diabetes.
[53:26] Skeletal muscle is what allows us to
[53:28] buffer
[53:29] the foods that we eat. So, if I'm eating
[53:31] lots of sugar and carbs, for example,
[53:33] Yeah. and I've got lots of muscle,
[53:35] then
[53:36] the sh- the sugar and the carbs going to
[53:38] be basically stored in my muscle. But if
[53:41] I don't have any muscle, then where is
[53:42] it going to go? Exactly.
[53:44] Liver, fat. You are going to become
[53:47] increasingly unhealthy unless you are
[53:49] training.
[53:51] So, if I if I have more muscle, does
[53:52] that mean I can eat more carbs and there
[53:54] be less of a consequence? Likely, yes.
[53:57] Especially if you are training and you
[53:58] have healthy skeletal muscle.
[54:01] Um skeletal muscle can be marbled. A-
[54:04] You can get an increase in myosteatosis,
[54:07] which is fat infiltration in skeletal
[54:09] muscle.
[54:11] In order for skeletal muscle There is no
[54:13] such thing as a healthy sedentary
[54:15] person.
[54:16] You will look in the literature and you
[54:18] will see
[54:19] people say, "Oh, healthy sedentary."
[54:21] There is no such thing as a healthy
[54:23] sedentary person.
[54:25] What do I mean by that?
[54:26] There was some wonderful work out of
[54:28] Yale. They looked at 18-year-old
[54:31] college students that were considered
[54:33] lean and healthy,
[54:36] put them in
[54:37] a-
[54:39] a time frame of inactivity, and they
[54:41] become they became insulin resistant.
[54:43] They had skeletal muscle insulin
[54:45] resistance
[54:47] even though there were no outward signs
[54:49] of obesity or fat.
[54:51] If you are not active,
[54:54] you will not be turning over your
[54:56] glycogen stores, which is the stored
[54:58] form of carbohydrates.
[55:00] You will begin to build up byproducts.
[55:03] Your skeletal muscle will be
[55:05] increasingly more unhealthy over time.
[55:09] You cannot get out of doing resistance
[55:13] type exercises. And to be clear,
[55:15] you do not have to be doing a one rep
[55:17] max.
[55:18] You could simply start by body weight
[55:20] resistance training.
[55:22] It could be yoga, it could be bands. But
[55:24] at some point, you will have to
[55:26] stimulate that tissue in a meaningful
[55:28] way
[55:29] to age well. How many people are meeting
[55:33] the activity guidelines at the moment,
[55:35] and how many people aren't?
[55:38] Roughly
[55:39] 6 to 8% are meeting the resistance
[55:42] training guidelines.
[55:43] 6 to 8%?
[55:44] Yes, sir.
[55:46] Just if you were to look at resistance
[55:47] training guidelines. Now,
[55:49] 50% of Americans don't even work out.
[55:53] Over 70, roughly 75%
[55:57] do not meet both recommendations.
[56:00] The majority of individuals are
[56:02] sedentary individuals.
[56:05] It's interesting cuz people will then
[56:07] say, "Well, you know, these stats are
[56:09] all bad, but our life expectancy seems
[56:12] to have gone up,
[56:13] you know, year over year for Well, I
[56:15] mean, I think it's had a little bit of a
[56:16] blip recently because of COVID, but it's
[56:18] typically going up into the right, our
[56:20] life expectancy. So, we must be doing
[56:21] something, right?" Is it about life
[56:24] expectancy or is it about quality?
[56:27] Could we keep someone alive on bed rest?
[56:31] Probably.
[56:33] Would one say that
[56:36] that would be a good quality of life?
[56:38] You cannot have a high-quality life
[56:42] without high-quality muscle.
[56:45] More specifically, people care about
[56:49] autonomy.
[56:52] Can you imagine if you couldn't
[56:53] physically get your groceries?
[56:57] You are young.
[56:58] We are young. We take for granted the
[57:01] physical capacity
[57:03] that one has.
[57:05] That is a gift. It is a skill that must
[57:09] be
[57:11] continuously
[57:12] pushed,
[57:14] or the trajectory of aging is exactly
[57:16] what we see.
[57:18] People get to a point where they can no
[57:20] longer
[57:21] lift their suitcase
[57:23] on an airplane overhead. Do you see
[57:25] that? Yeah. People struggle to get their
[57:28] bag on the belt to go through security.
[57:31] Is that normal? That is not normal.
[57:34] How do we know this? Are there other
[57:36] sort of societies where they just age
[57:38] better than us? Um and they're, you
[57:40] know, they've got 60-year-olds that are
[57:42] being able to lift their bags above
[57:43] their head.
[57:43] I mean, I can tell you from
[57:46] my father's community in Ecuador.
[57:49] My dad is 74.
[57:52] If something is a 3-hour
[57:56] walk or less, he'll walk it.
[57:59] I definitely don't like to go visit him,
[58:00] as you can imagine. It's a lot of
[58:02] walking.
[58:03] They are extremely physically active.
[58:06] They seem to age well, and I think that
[58:10] you will find pockets of individuals
[58:13] who
[58:15] do things that are very physically
[58:17] active throughout their life span,
[58:20] which will allow them to maintain a
[58:22] muscle span, which is the time in which
[58:24] they have quality skeletal muscle.
[58:26] I will also say we control our
[58:29] environment.
[58:30] Everything can be easy for us if we
[58:32] choose.
[58:34] You can take the escalator, you can take
[58:35] the elevator, you can get in the car,
[58:36] you can do all of these things.
[58:38] Inoculating yourself against muscle
[58:41] aging
[58:42] takes effort, but it has to be done.
[58:47] Each time someone has a choice to either
[58:49] do it
[58:50] physically themselves or to take the
[58:52] easy way, each time an individual
[58:55] continues to take the easy way,
[58:58] the
[58:59] predictable decline
[59:01] will
[59:02] conti- It's like putting another coin in
[59:04] the bank, but maybe that bank is being
[59:07] spent on something worthless. That's
[59:09] exactly what happens.
[59:12] What are the misconceptions people have
[59:13] about um weight loss? You've touched on
[59:15] it a little bit, but i- if I've come to
[59:17] you and I say, "Listen, Dr. Lyon, I'm
[59:19] going to be honest with you. I just want
[59:21] to lose some of this belly fat.
[59:22] I just want to be um lean, and I want to
[59:24] be beautiful.
[59:26] Um should I get liposuction?
[59:29] Um what diet should I go on? What would
[59:31] you say to me?
[59:33] First thing that we have to figure out
[59:34] is your muscle mass. I mean, this is a
[59:37] little complicated because I would, of
[59:39] course, ask them how we got to where we
[59:41] were.
[59:42] Right.
[59:42] How do we get here?
[59:44] Are you
[59:46] emotionally eating? Are you,
[59:49] I don't know, not sleeping? Or what are
[59:51] the Are you drinking too much? What are
[59:52] you doing? What are we up against? What
[59:54] are the actual tactical behaviors that
[59:57] we're up against? Mhm. And then, I would
[59:59] say,
[60:00] let's go.
[60:01] We're going to build some muscle.
[60:04] We have to work on some body
[60:05] recomposition.
[60:06] And really, the two ways that we're
[60:08] going to start are the two
[60:11] basic, and that is diet and exercise.
[60:14] So, no lipo-suction? I mean, Stephen, if
[60:16] you wanted to, I do know a great plastic
[60:18] surgeon. Okay. But, no, unnecessary.
[60:21] And again, this goes back to this
[60:23] hyper-fixation on body fat.
[60:25] When the conversation should not be
[60:28] about
[60:30] obesity drugs or body fat,
[60:32] the conversation needs to swing back
[60:36] to not about making people less obese,
[60:38] but to making them have more healthy
[60:41] skeletal muscle.
[60:43] What's the link there? So, how is having
[60:45] more skeletal muscle going to My gluco-
[60:47] the
[60:48] glucose is going to be stored in it, so
[60:50] that means less glucose is going to be
[60:51] stored in my belly fat.
[60:53] My metabolism's going to be better, you
[60:54] said as well, so
[60:56] your ability to store glucose Yeah. will
[61:00] be from,
[61:01] you know, obviously stored in your
[61:02] liver, but skeletal muscle is the
[61:04] primary site for glucose disposal.
[61:06] Am I going to be less hungry?
[61:08] Now, that is a great question, and there
[61:10] is observational data, and I say this
[61:12] very hesitantly,
[61:13] because it hasn't been published yet,
[61:15] but
[61:16] I believe that we are going to begin to
[61:19] see that skeletal muscle
[61:22] has a role in appetite regulation
[61:25] because of receptors on skeletal muscle.
[61:28] You will not find anything out there
[61:30] yet,
[61:31] but I do believe that there is
[61:33] observational data from some of my
[61:34] colleagues that are doing research,
[61:36] that we will see that there is some
[61:38] appetite connection
[61:40] with skeletal muscle. Well, I burn more
[61:43] calories when I'm working out if I have
[61:45] more muscles.
[61:46] You will.
[61:47] What about Ozempic?
[61:50] Should I Should I consider a little bit
[61:52] of Ozempic on top? It depends on how
[61:54] long you've been struggling.
[61:56] Okay. I am
[61:59] I do recognize that these are
[62:02] very complex issues.
[62:05] Whether it's Ozempic or Mounjaro,
[62:08] GLP-1s, or GIP,
[62:10] these drugs,
[62:12] these
[62:14] drugs are here to stay.
[62:15] I do think they play a role. I know you
[62:18] had Dr. Tina [ __ ] I am fully in
[62:20] alignment with much of what she said.
[62:23] There is an absolute role for this.
[62:27] I will also say
[62:29] that why is it
[62:31] that
[62:32] within that conversation of body
[62:34] composition,
[62:36] why is it that it is so much more
[62:38] socially acceptable
[62:40] to give someone a medication
[62:43] to decrease obesity,
[62:46] yet the idea of giving someone
[62:48] a medication
[62:50] or an anabolic like testosterone or a
[62:53] testosterone derivative
[62:54] would be shocking
[62:57] to people.
[63:00] I can administer a drug to make an
[63:02] individual less obese,
[63:04] but there is an incredible amount of
[63:06] stigma
[63:07] if I wanted to administer a drug to
[63:09] allow someone to have stronger, bigger
[63:12] muscles. What kind of drugs would you
[63:14] administer to give them stronger, bigger
[63:15] muscles? Testosterone would be my first
[63:17] one.
[63:18] How much testosterone though?
[63:19] It depends.
[63:20] Michael, he was uh on the podcast
[63:22] previously, he told me that taking
[63:24] testosterone and steroids made him angry
[63:28] and gave him really vicious thoughts,
[63:30] dark thoughts. But, Michael
[63:33] is a professional bodybuilder.
[63:35] And we know that there is health and
[63:38] wellness,
[63:39] and that those that operate at the
[63:41] pinnacle of their sport,
[63:43] that does not mean that those
[63:44] individuals are
[63:47] training in a healthy amount, right?
[63:49] There is a cost of doing business
[63:51] at the peak of anyone's career in
[63:53] anything.
[63:54] And from a physical standpoint,
[63:56] certainly.
[63:59] That utilization
[64:02] would be different than someone coming
[64:05] to say, "Hey, I need to work on my body
[64:08] composition."
[64:10] The big point here is the dichotomy in
[64:13] conversation between the two.
[64:15] It's fully skewed
[64:18] in the way that it is much more
[64:20] acceptable
[64:22] to give a medication
[64:23] to address obesity, and much less
[64:26] acceptable to give a medication to
[64:28] address skeletal muscle mass.
[64:30] And I personally believe that that
[64:33] conversation needs to shift. A lot of
[64:35] people say that Ozempic causes muscle
[64:37] loss as well. It doesn't. Really?
[64:39] I have not seen a direct mechanism of
[64:42] action
[64:44] that Ozempic
[64:46] affects skeletal muscle in a negative
[64:47] way. In fact, I have seen the contrary.
[64:51] There is evidence to suggest that
[64:53] Ozempic and individuals like these drugs
[64:56] in this class can actually support
[64:58] skeletal muscle health.
[65:00] The reason individuals are losing
[65:03] muscle mass
[65:05] on these drugs
[65:07] are because they are not training
[65:10] and managing their dietary protein.
[65:11] There's only two ways to stimulate
[65:13] skeletal muscle,
[65:14] and that is through resistance training
[65:17] and dietary protein.
[65:20] You cannot out-medicate
[65:23] poor behavior.
[65:24] Oh, but but because they're on a
[65:27] appetite suppressant like Ozempic, that
[65:29] means that probably just not getting
[65:30] their protein. We utilize these drugs in
[65:34] my medical practice all the time.
[65:37] We track body composition
[65:40] all the time. It is routine.
[65:42] We track muscle mass.
[65:44] We do not see a decrease in skeletal
[65:47] muscle mass when individuals are dosing
[65:50] protein appropriately and training.
[65:53] Does Ozempic and these that category of
[65:55] drugs will people of a certain
[65:57] psychological mindset benefit?
[66:01] That's a wonderful question, and here is
[66:03] what I would say as
[66:05] a physician who is in practice.
[66:08] Removing
[66:09] physical obstacles are critical.
[66:12] And individuals can spend time obsessing
[66:15] about their body,
[66:16] um
[66:17] just really it can
[66:20] infiltrate their thoughts.
[66:22] It takes away from their capacity to
[66:24] show up in life,
[66:26] to be present, because they're worried
[66:27] about their weight.
[66:29] And can you imagine if
[66:33] someone was struggling with that for a
[66:34] decade or two or three?
[66:37] Now, we have a new class of drugs
[66:39] that will take away in part a desire to
[66:42] binge eat, or take away in part a desire
[66:46] to even potentially drink alcohol.
[66:49] What it allows for is physical freedom.
[66:52] Do I think that that comes with a cost
[66:56] of not doing the hard thing and
[66:59] and doing those
[67:01] kinds of behaviors?
[67:04] It does. It does make things easier.
[67:08] However,
[67:09] there is utility in that. Yeah, cuz if
[67:12] someone suggested it to me, I'd say, the
[67:14] first thing I'd say is, "Dr. Lion,
[67:15] what's the cost?"
[67:16] Cuz nothing's free in life, so and if I
[67:18] don't know what the cost is, that's even
[67:20] more scary.
[67:21] I'd rather be able to balance the
[67:23] trade-off, but not many people are
[67:25] giving me many costs for Ozempic at the
[67:26] moment.
[67:27] Well, number one, you don't need it.
[67:29] Yeah. You would not be someone who needs
[67:32] Ozempic or Mounjaro or Zepbound. You You
[67:35] just wouldn't be someone who needs that.
[67:38] Um but, I do actually believe that this,
[67:42] in combination with hormone replacement
[67:44] therapy, is going to be the way of the
[67:45] future for longevity. What's the cost?
[67:49] I cannot tell you
[67:52] what the cost is, and here's why.
[67:55] Because people will say it slows down
[67:57] gastric emptying.
[67:59] Um yes, that's exactly what it is
[68:01] supposed to do. Will that have a
[68:03] meaningful outcome?
[68:05] Not necessarily. These drugs are not new
[68:07] drugs.
[68:09] This class of drug is not a new drug. It
[68:10] has been around for the last 20 years. I
[68:12] know at least the last 10.
[68:15] There must be a cost though.
[68:16] The cost is when you go off of this,
[68:19] Yeah. you likely have, and again, this
[68:21] is just my perspective, is once you
[68:24] titrate off, then normal hunger cues
[68:27] should return.
[68:28] And if you do not have appropriate
[68:30] strategies in place,
[68:32] an individual will then begin to
[68:33] struggle,
[68:34] potentially regain the weight. Have you
[68:36] seen this? I haven't.
[68:37] We take people off these medications all
[68:40] the time.
[68:42] And they don't rebound.
[68:44] They do not rebound. They do not
[68:45] rebound.
[68:49] But again, we do very intensive
[68:52] lifestyle interventions. We also
[68:56] figure out why people got
[68:59] into the place or the hole where they
[69:02] are starting. Why?
[69:04] Right? You say there's no free lunch,
[69:06] and maybe the no free lunch is you have
[69:08] to address old trauma.
[69:09] Maybe one will really have to explore
[69:13] the way in which they cope, right?
[69:16] Cannot cope with emotional eat like they
[69:19] You cannot do these things.
[69:21] If you want to maintain
[69:23] your body composition as you age,
[69:25] you have to be accountable for these
[69:27] things.
[69:28] Do diets work?
[69:30] Do you ever put someone on a diet?
[69:33] If they're over consuming calories,
[69:34] yeah. And what does that look like? For
[69:37] us, I mean, we've been doing this for a
[69:39] very long time.
[69:41] We The first thing that we decide is
[69:42] dietary protein.
[69:44] Which is unfortunately seems to be the
[69:45] most controversial macronutrient. Which
[69:48] by the way, you looked at me crazy and
[69:50] you're absolutely right. Why would any
[69:51] macronutrient be controversial, but
[69:54] dietary protein, again, it wasn't like
[69:57] this until the influx of social media.
[70:01] And what do I mean by that? Dietary
[70:03] protein, it just seems as if there's
[70:06] always a reason why people are trying to
[70:07] remove it from the diet. Which seems
[70:09] somewhat ridiculous and
[70:10] counterintuitive.
[70:13] The first thing that we do is we
[70:15] recognize that dietary protein is what
[70:17] the foundation of any solid nutrition
[70:19] plan should be built on.
[70:21] And that is 0.7 to 1 g per pound ideal
[70:24] body weight.
[70:26] If you eat high nutrient-dense foods
[70:29] like animal products, you could probably
[70:30] go to the lower end at 0.7. If you are
[70:32] someone who does not eat any kind of
[70:34] animal product, you're probably going to
[70:36] be closer to 1 g per pound ideal body
[70:39] weight of
[70:40] um whatever that source of protein is.
[70:43] But protein is what is going to maintain
[70:46] hunger.
[70:47] You know, uh dietary protein does cause
[70:50] an increase in GLP. GLP-1 in the body.
[70:54] And people will talk about that,
[70:55] although it's only meal to meal. Which
[70:57] is so you know, you have these GLP-1
[70:59] agonists which improve satiation. So
[71:02] like a a Zempic is a GLP-1 agonist which
[71:04] makes you less hungry.
[71:05] Yes. Dietary protein, in part, works on
[71:08] that same kind of mechanism. Also
[71:09] releases GLP.
[71:12] Which makes me less hungry?
[71:13] Yes. Okay. It will improve your improve
[71:15] your satiation. Okay.
[71:17] Dietary protein, we know, can help
[71:19] regulate hunger.
[71:20] Can also
[71:22] maintain blood sugar, right? If you have
[71:24] carbohydrates in in check. Not a very
[71:27] efficient way, but your body can
[71:28] generate glucose from dietary protein. A
[71:30] lot of people associate protein with
[71:32] like bodybuilders and stuff like that.
[71:33] I know, it's such a mistake. It's a
[71:35] mistake.
[71:36] Because as individuals age, they need
[71:40] double the the minimum recommendation to
[71:42] prevent a deficiency.
[71:44] The current recommendation is 0.8 g per
[71:47] kilogram or 0.37 g per pound.
[71:50] If someone was 115 lb, their dietary
[71:54] protein recommendation would be 45 g.
[71:57] That would be the minimum to prevent a
[71:59] deficiency.
[72:00] As individuals age, they require more
[72:03] dietary protein
[72:04] because skeletal muscle becomes what we
[72:07] call anabolically resistant.
[72:09] It means it becomes less efficient at
[72:12] utilizing dietary protein. If you were
[72:14] to eat the way you did maybe in your
[72:17] teens and 20s.
[72:18] Body at that time is extremely anabolic.
[72:21] What's that mean? You look like you're
[72:22] pretty fit. Have you always been pretty
[72:24] fit? No.
[72:26] Pretty fit in terms of what though? I've
[72:28] not always had as as much muscle mass as
[72:30] I have now, but I've always been
[72:32] um fit as in playing sports and stuff my
[72:35] whole life. And has it been easy to put
[72:36] on muscle?
[72:37] Generally, I'd say yes. When I was
[72:38] younger, it was a it felt a bit more
[72:39] difficult, but I just think I had had
[72:41] things wrong. I don't think I was
[72:42] consuming enough calories.
[72:43] Mhm. But as of as I got to sort of 25,
[72:45] 26, 27, it became a little bit more
[72:47] straightforward. Which is amazing. Your
[72:50] body is highly anabolic. You are now
[72:53] consuming calories,
[72:55] protein, you're able to put on skeletal
[72:56] muscle. Mhm. That tissue is very
[72:58] anabolic. It's sensitive to the foods
[73:00] that you're eating, to the stimulus
[73:01] you're providing. As you age, that
[73:04] tissue becomes more resistant.
[73:07] I've got friends that tell me they can't
[73:09] put on muscle easily.
[73:10] How old are they? One of them's 27 and
[73:12] the other one I think is about 29. Okay.
[73:15] And they're men.
[73:17] And they've told me that
[73:19] no matter what they do, they just can't
[73:20] put muscle on.
[73:21] Well,
[73:22] first things that I would do is ask them
[73:24] what they're doing. Are they consuming
[73:25] enough calories? Do they have enough
[73:26] protein? Where do you think they're
[73:27] going wrong when I said that?
[73:29] The fir- You want me to be honest? The
[73:31] first thing that I thought was
[73:33] I am seeing a huge increase in low
[73:37] testosterone levels in younger
[73:39] individuals. Interesting.
[73:41] And um I know it's just me and you and
[73:44] not the millions of people that
[73:46] watch your show, but um
[73:50] the medical answer would be they should
[73:53] look at their diet and training and
[73:54] sleep. But what I am seeing clinically
[73:57] is that young young men have
[74:00] increasingly low levels of testosterone.
[74:03] And how does that link to them not being
[74:05] able to put on muscle? They are
[74:08] um less anabolic than they should be.
[74:11] What does anabolic mean? Building. They
[74:13] are less capable of building. Okay. If
[74:15] if I This is a
[74:17] problematic question. Um
[74:19] is there any way to tell if someone has
[74:21] low testosterone just by kind of looking
[74:23] at them?
[74:24] Some of my colleagues might disagree
[74:26] with this.
[74:27] I would say you could potentially guess,
[74:30] but do they have less um
[74:35] hair on their legs? Do they have less
[74:37] muscle mass? Do they have um
[74:40] what would look like potentially more
[74:43] estrogen in a male? You know, you're
[74:45] putting me on the spot here, right?
[74:46] Yeah, but all those things I was
[74:48] thinking of my particular one particular
[74:49] person. I think all those things are
[74:51] true.
[74:52] So maybe it is like low testosterone. So
[74:53] my next question becomes is there a way
[74:55] that they can stimulate their
[74:56] testosterone without having needles
[74:58] stuck into them? Absolutely. I mean, the
[75:00] first thing is you have to look at
[75:01] lifestyle. What is their diet? You do
[75:03] need nutrients. If they are not sleeping
[75:06] and they're um taking potentially
[75:09] uh recreational drugs, this can all
[75:12] affect
[75:13] testosterone. It could be it can affect
[75:15] sleep. It can affect a number of things.
[75:19] The first thing that I would do is are
[75:20] these guys sleeping?
[75:22] Are they eating well?
[75:24] Eating well being the protein we talked
[75:26] about. Are they eating a diet that is
[75:28] fully processed? Are they training?
[75:30] Training in and of itself isn't going to
[75:32] generate testosterone per se, but it
[75:35] would increase the receptors.
[75:37] Increase the skeletal muscle receptors.
[75:39] Increase those androgen receptors.
[75:41] Uh the other thing that I would say, and
[75:43] this is what may be a little bit outside
[75:44] the box, but what are they being exposed
[75:46] to?
[75:47] We do a lot of heavy metal testing. Uh
[75:50] we see we do see a lot of exposures.
[75:52] Those things can affect fertility.
[75:55] Whether it's lead or mercury, those kind
[75:57] of things, absolutely.
[75:59] And where do these things come from,
[76:00] these heavy metals?
[76:03] I mean, we're drinking out of a metal
[76:04] cup here.
[76:05] I know. This is stainless steel. I don't
[76:06] think that this gets into the water.
[76:08] Um they could certainly get it from
[76:10] aluminum cans.
[76:12] They could get it from eating a lot of
[76:14] seafood. They could have exposures.
[76:17] Um maybe they're training on weapons.
[76:21] Maybe not. Could be getting lead. You're
[76:23] in great shape. Thank you. What do you
[76:25] eat?
[76:26] Diet high protein. And I eat a lot of
[76:28] carbs. I train a lot.
[76:30] So run me through your day. What time do
[76:33] you wake up?
[76:34] Between 5:30 and 6:00. My husband wakes
[76:36] up at 4:00. Mhm.
[76:38] So.
[76:39] And then That's the problem. And then
[76:41] what do you do?
[76:42] I get up.
[76:44] Um I see if the kids are asleep or
[76:46] awake. Usually one is in the bed, two is
[76:49] in bed. And then I get ready to go
[76:50] train.
[76:52] Get up. Three days a week, I
[76:55] head over to meet my coach. Sh- shout
[76:58] out to Carlos Mana. He's the man.
[77:01] And we hit it hard. And I'm usually 5
[77:03] minutes late every single time.
[77:05] Because in the morning,
[77:07] one or both children will will decide if
[77:09] they're going to come with me or not. I
[77:11] include my kids in my training.
[77:12] How old are they? Three and five.
[77:15] Oh, damn. You're getting them training
[77:16] at three and five?
[77:17] I am.
[77:19] My 5-year-old is in jujitsu. They have
[77:21] their own kettlebell sets.
[77:23] Um
[77:24] because
[77:26] people and children,
[77:28] they don't care what you say.
[77:30] They care what you do.
[77:33] So,
[77:34] sometimes they decide to come with me,
[77:35] sometimes they don't. Um and I train
[77:39] fasted.
[77:40] Wait. I didn't tell you I
[77:42] caffeinate a lot.
[77:45] A lot. I am drinking coffee now. I may
[77:47] be someone who is tired or drinking
[77:49] water or coffee. How long do you train
[77:50] for? An hour. And you only do three
[77:51] times a week?
[77:53] I do three times a week of lifting.
[77:56] Okay.
[77:57] I try to train as hard as I possibly
[77:59] can.
[78:01] By that second day, I'm tired.
[78:03] It would take a lot for me to do some
[78:05] kind of major lifting. I'm in the middle
[78:06] of rehab.
[78:08] The next day, so I'll train Mondays, uh
[78:10] Wednesdays, and Fridays.
[78:12] Tuesdays, Thursdays will be
[78:15] some kind of
[78:16] light cardio. Maybe I'll do 20 minutes.
[78:18] Maybe it'll be intense.
[78:20] Whatever I'm feeling. I'm very active
[78:22] during the day.
[78:23] Sometimes I wear a weighted vest.
[78:25] I take calls walking. I move a lot.
[78:28] My friends joke that I am someone who
[78:30] never sits still. Period. End of story.
[78:32] You can see me now. I'm moving all over
[78:34] the place.
[78:35] I have high energy expenditure.
[78:37] My first meal of the day will either be
[78:39] a shake. It might be 30 to 50 g of a
[78:42] whey protein shake. Uh typically, I
[78:44] might even have collagen in my coffee.
[78:47] Collagen um in coffee doesn't
[78:49] necessarily
[78:51] stimulate muscle, but I use it for hair,
[78:53] skin, and nails. It's an incomplete
[78:54] protein and has a protein score of zero.
[78:57] I just wanted to clarify. So, am I
[78:58] training fasted? Yes. Uh mostly fasted
[79:01] might be shot of collagen.
[79:03] 30 to 50 g at that first meal.
[79:05] I might have some kind of carbohydrate,
[79:07] but usually
[79:09] I'm running around. Got to get the kids
[79:11] to school or whatever it is.
[79:14] My my next meal might be some lean beef.
[79:18] I'll definitely have carbs. I'll have
[79:20] either rice or potato and some kind of
[79:22] greens. And that will be another you
[79:25] know, if I were to think about how much
[79:26] protein, I'm tiny person. I'm maybe 110
[79:28] lb. I might have 120
[79:31] g of protein a day.
[79:34] And then the last meal is also between
[79:36] 30 and 50 g of
[79:38] protein and probably close to 50 g of
[79:41] carbs. And what what time is that last
[79:43] meal typically?
[79:45] If you can help it. Around 7:00. I eat
[79:47] with the family.
[79:49] Nothing crazy. I'm very consistent.
[79:53] I think it's important that one meal or
[79:54] one workout doesn't take you off track.
[79:58] I don't really think twice about it. I
[79:59] know what I have to eat. Food is not um
[80:02] complicated.
[80:04] It's effective.
[80:07] I don't drink alcohol. I don't like the
[80:08] way it tastes. I don't really have a
[80:10] sweet tooth. Is that the only reason you
[80:12] don't drink alcohol? Because of the
[80:13] taste? Did you Did you drink alcohol
[80:15] before?
[80:15] No. You've never drank alcohol?
[80:17] No. Taste terrible. I'm sure you've had
[80:19] it. Taste like rubbing I mean, taste
[80:21] terrible. Maybe I'm lucky.
[80:24] But uh also think that
[80:27] you know, can be toxic for the brain,
[80:29] but I choose not to have it because I do
[80:32] think it tastes terrible.
[80:33] Every single time you eat, you have an
[80:35] opportunity to improve your health. And
[80:38] that's why I love Zoe because Zoe helps
[80:40] me to make the smartest food choices for
[80:42] me and my body. And as you guys will
[80:44] know by now, Zoe is a sponsor of this
[80:46] podcast and I'm an investor in the
[80:47] company. And if you haven't tried Zoe, I
[80:49] highly recommend you do because Zoe
[80:51] combines my health data with Zoe's
[80:53] world-class science. And using those two
[80:56] things, Zoe guides me to better health
[80:59] every single time I make a food choice
[81:00] and eat. Which means that I have more
[81:02] energy, better sleep, better mood, and
[81:04] I'm less hungry. And the most important
[81:06] thing is Zoe actually works. It's backed
[81:08] by their recent clinical trial,
[81:10] something called the method study, which
[81:12] is the gold standard of scientific
[81:14] research. I started Zoe just over a year
[81:16] ago now and I've been able to track my
[81:18] progress week after week so I can learn
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[81:31] Are there small parts of your protocol
[81:33] that people can implement? You talked
[81:34] there about not sitting.
[81:36] You know, you said weighted vest.
[81:38] Yeah. Um are there anything else that we
[81:40] can do that might help us build muscle
[81:43] mass without having to go to the gym?
[81:44] Yes. What are the key things you think
[81:46] about that? If you can
[81:48] take a call walking or rocking
[81:51] you can load up weight. It is extremely
[81:54] easy to do and you can do it slowly.
[81:58] Whether you start with
[81:59] you could start with 7 lb.
[82:02] I have a 5-lb weight vest. I have a 7-lb
[82:06] weight vest, 20, and then from there you
[82:08] can load up weight. So you can build up
[82:10] over time. Um people should be doing
[82:13] that. It is effective and easy. Everyone
[82:16] can do that. People are taking calls.
[82:18] You don't have to do Zoom call.
[82:20] Why not? Get on the phone, get moving.
[82:24] Human body will like to sit, right? As
[82:26] opposed to be forced to move, but you
[82:28] become
[82:32] It's almost like a wrote activity. If
[82:35] you are someone who is sedentary
[82:36] it becomes easier to become sedentary
[82:38] and stay sedentary.
[82:40] It requires friction to change.
[82:42] You can mitigate some of that friction
[82:45] by incorporating movement into your
[82:46] life.
[82:47] For example walking with a a weighted
[82:50] vest, easy.
[82:52] Training with your kids.
[82:54] People will say, "I don't have time. I'm
[82:56] so busy."
[82:57] Pick up your kids after school. We
[82:59] instead of go and play video games
[83:02] we
[83:03] do a push-up challenge or a dance party.
[83:06] You know our Have you ever heard of
[83:08] Texas Hold'em?
[83:09] The poker game? No, the dance. Have you
[83:11] ever seen this uh Beyoncé um
[83:14] made an amazing song called Texas
[83:16] Hold'em and
[83:17] I thought she was talking about poker.
[83:18] She might be, but there is a line dance
[83:20] associated with that. There are a
[83:22] million fun ways to do something.
[83:25] We just have become accustomed to doing
[83:27] less.
[83:28] And we'll dance, we'll do whatever,
[83:30] push-ups, physical challenges, playing
[83:32] outside get the Nerf guns, whatever it
[83:35] is.
[83:36] Easy.
[83:38] I mean, it couldn't get easier than
[83:39] that.
[83:40] What do you think a good goal is to
[83:41] have? What kind of goal? Cuz I It was a
[83:44] I've said this before, but there's a
[83:45] time in my life where my goals are very
[83:46] like superficial.
[83:48] Um and they were like
[83:50] anchored to a a date.
[83:52] What are the best kind of goals that we
[83:54] should set ourselves as it relates
[83:55] relates to our health? I don't think we
[83:57] should set goals. No goals? I think we
[83:59] should set standards.
[84:00] Okay.
[84:02] When you set a goal, you can either
[84:03] reach that goal or not. But if you set a
[84:06] standard then you will always keep your
[84:09] standard. And that standard will allow
[84:11] you to reach a goal. But the standard
[84:14] won't change. For example, the standard
[84:16] is you wake up and you set whatever that
[84:19] is, you train every day.
[84:21] For me, I train 3 days a week.
[84:23] Um depending on how intense that
[84:25] training was.
[84:26] On Saturday, I might do a fourth day of
[84:28] training. And on Sunday, I forgot to
[84:30] tell you this, we do a group workout.
[84:32] My standard is physical activity
[84:35] has defined moments and that is my
[84:37] standard, even if I'm traveling.
[84:39] I know exactly what that's going to be
[84:40] before I get to the hotel.
[84:44] That is a standard of physical activity.
[84:46] I don't have to think about a goal. I
[84:47] don't have to have a goal of
[84:49] am I going to hit that or not because I
[84:50] know that those are things that I won't
[84:53] fall short of.
[84:55] My standard is my nutrition plan. I have
[84:57] between 110 to 120 g of protein. I have
[85:01] between 110 to 120 g of carbs. I know
[85:04] what that looks like. That is my
[85:05] standard.
[85:07] I don't deviate from that. And what are
[85:08] you struggling with as it relates to
[85:10] your own advice?
[85:12] Um sleep. You're struggling with sleep?
[85:14] Yeah.
[85:15] Is that because of the two little kids
[85:16] or It is. Because I have to make a
[85:19] choice.
[85:20] Am I going to spend time uninterrupted
[85:23] and undivided with them
[85:25] or am I going to do work?
[85:28] And my choice is I spend time with them.
[85:31] And then when they go to sleep, I work
[85:32] another 2 to 3 hours.
[85:37] And I should probably do
[85:40] a better job and know that eventually
[85:41] everything is going to get done, but I
[85:43] set standards.
[85:47] Do you find it difficult? You know, cuz
[85:49] people always talk about um
[85:51] not being able to have everything at
[85:52] once. This is what a lot of women have
[85:53] said to me. They said they were There
[85:55] was a time where we were sold this dream
[85:56] that you could have everything. You can.
[85:58] You can? I think so. Do you you must see
[86:01] a lot of excuses in people.
[86:03] I do. Because it's hard to face the
[86:06] truth.
[86:07] And what's the truth?
[86:08] What is the truth? The truth is
[86:10] are you doing this
[86:12] or are you not doing this
[86:15] because of some kind of internal choice?
[86:17] There has to be some truth-telling.
[86:20] And sometimes that truth is
[86:23] uncomfortable.
[86:25] And you you can get the job done.
[86:28] There might be things that um
[86:30] you have to sacrifice.
[86:33] But the job that the thing that you want
[86:36] the outcome that you want, the standard
[86:37] that you set, it can be done.
[86:41] It can be done. It's you tell yourself
[86:44] you can't do it. I mean, I have a three
[86:47] and a five-year-old.
[86:49] Do you know what kind of chaos ensues at
[86:51] my house?
[86:53] You should come over and I guarantee you
[86:55] will hold off having any kind of
[86:56] children for at least 5 years.
[86:59] But nothing is perfect. It can't ever
[87:02] Everything cannot be curated. Do I still
[87:04] get my training in? Do I still get my
[87:05] nutrition in? Am I anything special? I'm
[87:07] not.
[87:08] But my discipline is.
[87:10] I am very disciplined. Have you always
[87:12] been? Yes.
[87:14] A lot of people aren't and they haven't
[87:16] ever been. It's much more difficult to
[87:19] not be disciplined.
[87:21] The reason I am disciplined is to be
[87:23] able to manage my life. How do I get
[87:25] your discipline?
[87:26] You execute. You don't overthink it.
[87:28] There's nothing to think about. What do
[87:30] you want?
[87:31] I want to be like you. No, what do you
[87:33] want? Where are you falling short?
[87:35] to be like you.
[87:37] You would not be nearly as successful if
[87:40] you were undisciplined. You have to be
[87:41] disciplined.
[87:43] I'm just trying to embody the audience.
[87:44] I'm just trying to trying to think
[87:45] through all the [ __ ] that people
[87:46] tell themselves. And we all tell
[87:48] ourselves [ __ ] in various aspects of
[87:50] our life. If we're not telling ourselves
[87:51] [ __ ] as it relates to like exercise,
[87:52] it's something else. It's our
[87:53] relationships. It's playing.
[87:54] Totally. And we all And there's so many
[87:56] people struggle with personal
[87:57] responsibility cuz if I was to post if
[88:00] you were to post or I was to post
[88:01] anything on my story that you just said
[88:03] in the last sort of 5 minutes
[88:05] They'd be very offended. Yeah, and
[88:06] they'd be Well, not every bit There's a
[88:07] small group of
[88:08] So are they going to edit this out so
[88:10] that I'll come Oh, no, don't Don't send
[88:12] crazy people after me. No, we will. But
[88:14] um it's like the what about tree gang.
[88:16] And the what about tree gang, you could
[88:17] say anything and they'd say, "Yeah, but
[88:18] what about Yeah, but what about?" And I
[88:20] understand some people have they have
[88:22] legitimate Steven, the truth is
[88:25] it is very difficult to do what I do. I
[88:27] run three different businesses. I take
[88:30] care of some of the most incredible
[88:31] humans on the planet.
[88:35] I have my own podcast. I'm writing two
[88:36] more books. And I don't have full-time
[88:38] help. I'm a mom.
[88:43] The one thing I don't find
[88:45] is I don't find excuses. I figure out
[88:47] ways to get it done because if it
[88:49] matters
[88:50] you find ways to get it done.
[88:53] You know
[88:54] if I were to say
[88:57] and this is an extreme example
[88:59] but let's say
[89:01] I said to someone who
[89:04] I'll just make this up, loved cupcakes.
[89:07] I said
[89:09] if you eat another cupcake then
[89:12] something catastrophic is going to
[89:14] happen to your dog.
[89:15] Do you think that they would ever touch
[89:17] another cupcake? No. Not in a second.
[89:19] Just like that.
[89:21] So, the consequence is just not
[89:23] meaningful enough.
[89:24] When you find a meaningful consequence
[89:26] and you understand the consequence of
[89:28] your actions in that moment,
[89:31] it becomes easy. And this goes toward
[89:32] what you're saying about the discipline
[89:34] and the why part of that equation. You
[89:36] You refer to that as consequence. Like,
[89:38] why does this matter to you is the
[89:40] central part of the equation and deep in
[89:41] your head somewhere
[89:42] there's you're so clear on why this
[89:44] matters. Yeah. Because you've you've
[89:46] seen the research, you've studied it,
[89:47] you've seen the the consequence of this.
[89:49] I've seen the end result. Yeah. You see
[89:51] people die. You see people
[89:53] die.
[89:53] At the end of the day, we are all
[89:56] health and age and death, these things
[90:00] nobody's getting out of them.
[90:02] Like, nobody.
[90:04] So, if I follow your protocols
[90:06] for the next 30 years,
[90:10] at Yeah, then I'll be 60 years old. I'll
[90:12] be 61 years old.
[90:13] Can you describe to me what you think my
[90:16] life will look like as a 61-year-old?
[90:18] Versus
[90:19] if I just sit in this chair and eat
[90:21] processed foods and do zero resistance
[90:24] training for the next 30 years. Can you
[90:26] describe the two different Steves? We'll
[90:28] call it We'll call one sedentary Steve
[90:30] and we'll call one um
[90:32] Dr. Lyon Steve.
[90:33] Okay.
[90:35] Let's start with
[90:37] sedentary Steve. Mhm.
[90:40] I will say
[90:42] you're 30. So, right now you're
[90:44] sedentary.
[90:46] Alzheimer's disease is likely beginning.
[90:49] Cardiovascular disease is likely
[90:51] beginning.
[90:52] Right now at 30? That's right.
[90:54] Remember, these diseases that we believe
[90:57] are diseases of aging
[90:59] are at their core and at their root, in
[91:03] part,
[91:04] due to the health of skeletal muscle.
[91:07] The only organ system that you have
[91:09] direct voluntary control over.
[91:12] That's it.
[91:14] I cannot say, Steven,
[91:16] "I want your heart to beat at 45 beats
[91:19] per minute. Go."
[91:23] I cannot control. You might be able to
[91:25] control your respiration, but you can't
[91:28] physically
[91:29] contract your diaphragm. Go ahead,
[91:30] contract.
[91:33] Okay.
[91:34] Maybe.
[91:36] It's a muscle.
[91:37] Skeletal muscle is the only organ system
[91:41] that you have voluntary control over.
[91:42] That's it.
[91:44] Now,
[91:45] if you decide to not hear what I am
[91:48] saying,
[91:49] then
[91:50] if you are someone
[91:52] who
[91:53] has a genetic propensity, maybe you have
[91:57] I don't know. Uh when you overeat, you
[91:59] get high triglycerides or you
[92:03] um
[92:04] choose not to exercise.
[92:07] We will start to deteriorate your brain
[92:09] because
[92:10] contracting skeletal muscle is an
[92:12] endocrine organ.
[92:13] Not only does exercise increase blood
[92:15] flow to your brain.
[92:17] Um I just wrote a narrative review with
[92:19] a colleague of mine, um Louisa Nicola,
[92:22] amazing.
[92:24] We looked at the influence of resistance
[92:26] training and brain function.
[92:28] I cannot restore your brain, but I'd
[92:30] love to be able to prevent from the
[92:34] uh connections
[92:36] to become weaker and weaker and weaker.
[92:39] So,
[92:41] you decide not to exercise, I can do
[92:43] nothing for your brain.
[92:45] Eventually,
[92:46] you might
[92:48] forget
[92:50] I don't know.
[92:51] Your neighbor's name,
[92:53] your kid's name,
[92:54] your
[92:56] um
[92:57] anything, what you did, any meaningful
[92:59] memory.
[93:00] If we don't address
[93:02] your brain now,
[93:05] then
[93:06] the potential outcome is clear.
[93:08] Right? 2/3 of Alzheimer's,
[93:10] um the majority of dementia is
[93:11] Alzheimer's dementia, which plays a role
[93:14] in
[93:16] uh metabolic regulation.
[93:18] Type 3 diabetes of the brain.
[93:20] If your skeletal muscle is unhealthy,
[93:22] you are likely having
[93:23] not only skeletal muscle insulin
[93:24] resistance, but brain insulin
[93:26] resistance. No such thing. You cannot
[93:30] be sedentary and be healthy. So, that
[93:32] will begin now.
[93:33] The other thing is your cardiovascular
[93:35] activity, mhm.
[93:38] Can't help. Can't help you there. Not
[93:40] getting increase in blood flow, you're
[93:41] not um moving
[93:44] your cardiovascular health the way that
[93:46] it should, your lung capacity, your
[93:48] cardiovascular capacity. You're probably
[93:50] going to be extremely winded walking
[93:52] upstairs.
[93:53] It might take so much effort for you to
[93:55] get up, you might not even be able to
[93:58] fully
[94:00] stand up and sit down from your chair
[94:03] multiple times. You might struggle with
[94:04] that.
[94:07] If I said, Steven, "I need you to go to
[94:09] grab something out of the car for me."
[94:11] You'd probably say, "Oh, man.
[94:13] Hey, Doc. Um that's going to take a lot
[94:14] of effort. I I
[94:16] I'm not sure. I'm not sure I could even
[94:17] grab that I don't know, 15-lb grocery
[94:20] bag."
[94:23] You um
[94:24] likely have central obesity.
[94:28] Probably have sleep apnea, which means
[94:29] you're further deteriorating both your
[94:31] brain and your metabolic health.
[94:34] I would just throw in there you haven't
[94:36] trained your entire life, your
[94:37] testosterone is probably low and maybe
[94:39] throughout your lifespan, who knows?
[94:41] Maybe you have challenges with fertility
[94:44] because your sperm quality isn't as good
[94:46] as it could have been if you were
[94:48] training and eating well.
[94:50] Are you convinced yet? So, there's a
[94:52] there's a link between my fertility, for
[94:54] men and women, and my muscle mass. There
[94:57] is um a link between
[95:01] exercise, training,
[95:04] metabolic health, and definitely
[95:06] fertility.
[95:08] I think we are going to see more and
[95:10] more literature come out on this.
[95:12] Muscle mass and fertility.
[95:16] As um by the time you're 60, we'll
[95:18] definitely have more.
[95:19] Is there a link between polycystic ovary
[95:21] syndrome and muscle mass? You talk about
[95:23] that I think in chapter two. I think you
[95:24] There is insulin insulin resistance.
[95:27] When you think about skeletal muscle and
[95:30] insulin resistance, skeletal muscle
[95:31] makes up 40% of your body weight or so.
[95:34] Depending, for me it might be less, for
[95:36] you it might be more.
[95:37] When skeletal muscle becomes insulin
[95:39] resistant,
[95:40] again, which means insulin is a
[95:43] uh peptide hormone that is released from
[95:44] the pancreas,
[95:46] you require insulin
[95:48] to move glucose out of the bloodstream
[95:51] into cells.
[95:53] When you exercise, you do not require
[95:55] insulin to move blood glucose out
[95:59] of the bloodstream into skeletal muscle
[96:01] tissue.
[96:03] It can be insulin independent.
[96:06] Polycystic ovary syndrome is
[96:08] multifactorial.
[96:10] There is a component of polycystic ovary
[96:12] syndrome that is related to skeletal
[96:14] muscle insulin resistance.
[96:16] Once an individual
[96:18] manages their skeletal muscle mass,
[96:21] again, there's a various number of
[96:23] reasons as to why someone would have it,
[96:25] but
[96:26] in part, addressing skeletal muscle mass
[96:29] and skeletal muscle insulin resistance
[96:31] can help resolve polycystic ovary
[96:33] syndrome in certain cases.
[96:35] I was reading on the subject of sort of
[96:37] um
[96:38] PCOS and fertility. I was reading a
[96:40] study by uh which was um done at Harvard
[96:43] that found that men who reported to
[96:45] frequently lift heavy weights and
[96:47] objects at work had a 46% higher sperm
[96:50] concentration
[96:51] and a 44% higher total sperm count
[96:54] compared to those with less physical
[96:56] jobs. So, you're telling me if I want to
[96:57] up my sperm count and have a baby,
[97:00] And health. And sperm health. I should
[97:02] start lifting some weights. Yes.
[97:05] I was thinking about the 61-year-old guy
[97:06] that listens to Dr. Lyon's protocols.
[97:09] But also,
[97:11] let's say you didn't We didn't talk
[97:12] about what would happen if you listened.
[97:14] Yeah, which is what I'm saying. So, the
[97:16] guy that listened, so the 61-year-old
[97:18] Steve Bartlett that listens to your
[97:19] protocols.
[97:19] Holy cow, that guy's a beast. He's now
[97:21] taken over the world.
[97:24] Because Does he have a six-pack? Of
[97:26] course he does. Really? At 61? Yes. Is
[97:28] it possible? Yes.
[97:32] What's the healthiest
[97:33] oldest person you've ever seen? My dad.
[97:36] Really? Oh my gosh.
[97:38] He's 74. He could put on a little more
[97:39] muscle. Okay.
[97:41] His testosterone was like 800. He's not
[97:43] any hormone replacement.
[97:45] He has been following what I've been
[97:48] telling him, unfortunate for him because
[97:50] I'm his daughter.
[97:52] He's been listening to this message. I'm
[97:53] just sitting here with you, but we are
[97:55] talking about over 10 years
[97:59] of talking about this,
[98:00] of seeing this with patients and people.
[98:03] He has amazing um hemoglobin A1C,
[98:08] fasting blood sugar,
[98:10] cholesterol is in check. I mean, he is
[98:12] strong, he is capable.
[98:16] He's 74.
[98:19] What is the most important thing that we
[98:20] haven't talked about, Dr. Lyon?
[98:24] I would say that
[98:26] nobody's getting out of this alive.
[98:29] And it's all going to come down
[98:32] to choices.
[98:34] Choices for how
[98:36] we execute.
[98:37] Our present choices will determine our
[98:39] outcomes.
[98:41] And it is not difficult, it's not
[98:43] complex.
[98:45] You have to prioritize skeletal muscle.
[98:47] This is the organ of longevity.
[98:49] With this physical framework comes
[98:53] mental strength.
[98:55] And what's most important about this
[98:58] isn't for us now.
[98:59] Like, this is great, you can do it,
[99:02] but it provides
[99:04] hope and an example for our children.
[99:06] That them, those people, the little
[99:09] ones, that is who I am
[99:12] truly worried about
[99:14] because we have normalized supersizing
[99:16] everything including ourselves.
[99:20] We have more electronics than ever
[99:22] before. We are more disconnected from
[99:24] people.
[99:26] People will say the internet has done a
[99:28] great job at connecting. Face-to-face
[99:30] conversations, connection is huge.
[99:34] The most important is our youth and how
[99:36] we raise them and the messages that we
[99:38] give them
[99:39] because they are our responsibility. And
[99:41] if we cannot advocate for our own
[99:44] health, whatever those limitations are
[99:47] whether it's personal or worthy, it is
[99:50] our responsibility to do a much better
[99:52] job
[99:53] so that we not tell them but we show
[99:55] them the way forward.
[99:57] And what's the most important subject in
[99:59] your book that we haven't covered?
[100:01] Forever Strong, a new science-based
[100:03] strategy for aging well, how to reboot
[100:05] your body to burn fat, fight heart
[100:07] disease, reverse diabetes, stay sharp,
[100:09] build muscle, and boost energy.
[100:12] I mean, we talked about dietary protein.
[100:15] We talked about how that potentially can
[100:17] be controversial controversial for some
[100:19] people.
[100:20] Um
[100:22] We discussed carbohydrates.
[100:23] Carbohydrates are earned through
[100:25] activity.
[100:26] If someone is metabolically unhealthy,
[100:28] they have to understand that potentially
[100:30] starting with 100 g and titrating up or
[100:32] down depending on their activity level
[100:34] is important.
[100:36] How quickly do I lose muscle?
[100:38] Uh you if you are in the ICU, you could
[100:41] lose 2% of your muscle mass in a day.
[100:44] Ugh, god, what?
[100:45] If you are in a highly catabolic state
[100:48] on bed rest,
[100:50] you will lose muscle
[100:52] rapidly
[100:53] depending on your age.
[100:55] Um within 7 days, you could lose if
[100:59] you're young and healthy 2 lb of
[101:01] skeletal muscle mass.
[101:03] Cuz I'm thinking if I go to the gym
[101:04] today and I did my biceps and I really
[101:06] smashed it,
[101:08] how long before those gains were lost?
[101:12] I would give you you'll lose strength
[101:13] and then mass.
[101:15] Um you will lose it rapidly. 7 days of
[101:18] bed rest,
[101:19] you will lose it.
[101:22] And and But it will return if you've
[101:24] been well trained.
[101:26] And it will return faster the second
[101:28] time than it did the first time, right?
[101:29] People talk about muscle memory a lot.
[101:31] That is a interesting
[101:34] perspective. Yes, if you are well
[101:36] trained, will it return? Yes.
[101:39] It also depends on how long you've been
[101:41] untrained for. It also will depend on
[101:44] how highly catabolic you are.
[101:47] For example, if someone had cancer,
[101:48] they're in a highly catabolic state,
[101:49] their body is breaking down, skeletal
[101:51] muscle mass will improve their
[101:54] survivability.
[101:55] If someone goes on bed rest, you will
[101:57] lose muscle mass and strength extremely
[101:59] rapidly.
[102:01] Now,
[102:03] will you able to improve
[102:05] re-return insulin sensitivity? Yes.
[102:08] If you decided to just begin
[102:12] basic activities of living and not
[102:15] exercising, you will not be able to
[102:17] recover that muscle. Getting out of the
[102:19] hospital, just doing basic things will
[102:22] not be enough.
[102:23] And now as you can imagine, that happens
[102:25] to people.
[102:27] I can imagine. Yeah.
[102:30] Yeah, I go through periods in my life
[102:31] where for whatever reason I have to be a
[102:33] bit more sedentary.
[102:35] Um
[102:36] things like filming TV shows. I filmed a
[102:37] show called Dragon's Den where we
[102:38] basically sit in a room for 10 hours a
[102:40] day. It's like Shark Tank here.
[102:42] And whenever I go through that season of
[102:43] life, it's very difficult. I I I always
[102:45] see this correlation between how much
[102:47] activity I have I've been doing and how
[102:49] much motivation I have.
[102:52] Uh so if I've been sat down and not been
[102:54] exercising for a while, I find it harder
[102:55] to find the motivation to go again and
[102:57] it's this kind of vicious downward
[102:58] spiral.
[102:58] One thing that we didn't talk about is
[103:00] how skeletal muscle mass
[103:02] functions as an endocrine organ.
[103:04] What's an endocrine organ? An endocrine
[103:05] organ is something that produces
[103:07] hormones that act systemically, locally,
[103:09] and um inter or there's an inter organ
[103:12] connection. When you exercise based on
[103:15] intensity and duration, you release
[103:17] myokines. Myokines like interleukin-6 or
[103:20] interleukin-15.
[103:22] These are what people typically think as
[103:24] cytokines that are released from
[103:25] inflammatory cells or macrophages.
[103:28] But when you contract skeletal muscle in
[103:30] a meaningful way based on the intensity
[103:33] and duration, you release myokines from
[103:37] skeletal muscle that interface with your
[103:39] brain. They affect mood. They affect
[103:41] neurogenesis. It also affects your liver
[103:44] and your kidney. There's this inter
[103:46] organ cross talk. You know, we talked
[103:48] about skeletal muscle about how
[103:50] important it is from a metabolic
[103:51] perspective, as a body armor
[103:53] perspective, but also as this endocrine
[103:56] organ that can affect mood because of
[103:59] the components that it's releasing.
[104:01] And that is fascinating. It can
[104:03] counterbalance inflammation
[104:06] based on the activity duration
[104:10] and intensity. So that explains why if
[104:12] I've not been moving, I don't feel as
[104:13] good in terms of motivation and um
[104:16] I feel more fatigued when I've done less
[104:18] exercise over a long period of time. I
[104:20] mean, yes. And it doesn't take much to
[104:23] maintain what you have. For example, if
[104:25] you could during those days,
[104:27] do you have to be So you're shooting for
[104:29] 10 hours, you don't have breaks?
[104:30] We have lunch break.
[104:32] You should be training on that lunch
[104:33] break. I don't care how tired you are.
[104:35] I'm hungry.
[104:36] Then
[104:37] you should eat in 10 minutes and get to
[104:40] training.
[104:41] It's a good point and you're totally
[104:42] right. Push-ups, have a weighted vest,
[104:44] do whatever you have to.
[104:46] You will feel exponentially better.
[104:50] And also this is predictable. So here is
[104:51] an example. You know it's coming, right?
[104:54] You know that you'll be filming this for
[104:55] 10 hours a day. Yeah. What is your
[104:58] strategy to execute in a way that is
[105:00] effective and meaningful? And that's
[105:02] really it, isn't it? It's about forward
[105:03] planning. Yeah.
[105:05] You know it's coming. It's predictable.
[105:07] It's also predictable how you're going
[105:08] to feel
[105:09] afterwards. And then you are going to
[105:11] have to account for how you feel and
[105:13] then you are going to have to deal with
[105:14] the repercussions of now not being
[105:16] motivated, now having to address your
[105:18] diet, and now probably feeling a little
[105:20] bit more down than you would have. We
[105:22] totally know it's coming. It's one of
[105:24] the big things I've just real- realized
[105:25] as you're talking is I don't schedule my
[105:27] workouts.
[105:28] So my workouts are kind of this residual
[105:31] residual beneficiary. I either get
[105:32] whatever time's left over in the day,
[105:34] which might mean last night it was super
[105:35] late. It was almost at midnight.
[105:37] And then today I've got a flight off to
[105:40] this. So it's a 10-hour flight. So it's
[105:42] like
[105:43] but I I could quite easily I have the
[105:46] fortune and privilege of just being able
[105:47] to ask my assistant to change something.
[105:49] So I can say, "While you schedule
[105:50] everything else, also schedule an hour
[105:52] for me to train." But I think everyone
[105:54] could probably do that. I would I wonder
[105:55] how many people schedule their workouts.
[105:58] Everybody who is
[106:00] You show me your habits and I will tell
[106:02] you how successful you will be able to
[106:04] continue to be in the long run.
[106:06] You could probably look at someone's
[106:07] calendar and figure out what they're
[106:09] going to look like in 10 years' time.
[106:10] I definitely can.
[106:12] But I will say that there's this
[106:15] privilege of youth and then there
[106:16] becomes a tipping point.
[106:20] Yes, you should be scheduling those
[106:21] things. You can And let's say you say to
[106:24] me, "Gabrielle, I don't have time to do
[106:26] it."
[106:27] You are not You could schedule 3 days a
[106:29] week. You know that we're filming all
[106:30] day. You know that you're doing these
[106:31] things.
[106:32] That is a non-negotiable because you're
[106:34] setting a standard. You set a standard
[106:36] for everything in here and everything
[106:37] else you do. Mhm. Nothing is going to be
[106:39] more critical
[106:41] for your impact than being able to
[106:42] manage your health because again, there
[106:44] comes a point in time where
[106:46] um
[106:47] it's a very predictable
[106:50] turning point, inflection point.
[106:53] If we get together again and I don't
[106:54] know, say it was 30 years from now and
[106:57] I say to you you know, how
[107:00] and you've been successful over the next
[107:01] 30 years, however you define that. What
[107:04] happened?
[107:05] We've completely changed the
[107:06] conversation.
[107:08] We are no longer
[107:09] at nauseam. I'm talking about obesity.
[107:11] That is a side component.
[107:14] We are focused
[107:16] on physical and mental strength. We are
[107:18] focused on understanding that it is a
[107:20] muscle problem and a problem and a
[107:22] solution that we can do something about.
[107:25] Obesity is an afterthought.
[107:27] And personally?
[107:29] My kids have done amazing.
[107:31] They're happy and adjusted and can
[107:35] withstand whatever whatever comes their
[107:37] way. And my husband will be picking up
[107:38] his socks.
[107:40] If he stopped taking care of himself,
[107:42] You would never. He doesn't even He
[107:43] would never. No, but just say play out
[107:44] the scenario. Yeah.
[107:46] Would you say something to him? Uh yes.
[107:48] What would you say?
[107:50] I don't want to put it on camera, but
[107:51] it'd be something totally inappropriate
[107:54] and somewhat aggressive, but yes, I
[107:56] would say something to him.
[107:58] But ultimately,
[107:59] he has to be an example for our kids. It
[108:01] is his responsibility. It's not about
[108:03] him.
[108:04] We have a closing tradition on this
[108:06] podcast where the last guest leaves a
[108:07] question for the next not knowing who
[108:08] they're going to be leaving it for.
[108:10] And the question that's been left for
[108:12] you is
[108:14] regret can occur
[108:16] due to action taken or action not taken.
[108:20] In light of that,
[108:22] what is your biggest meaningful regret
[108:26] and why?
[108:28] My biggest meaningful regret and why?
[108:33] I don't know if I have a regret.
[108:38] I don't know if I have a regret that I
[108:40] can think of
[108:42] because I think that we are responsible
[108:45] for our choices. What if I put the word
[108:47] mistake in there?
[108:50] I mean, the only thing that I could
[108:51] think of is
[108:54] I
[108:55] Again, this isn't a mistake or I don't
[108:58] even know if I consider this meaningful
[108:59] is that
[109:01] um
[109:03] outcomes unfold
[109:05] and instead of you know, I was so driven
[109:08] and I've been so driven by
[109:10] doing good. You know, thinking like
[109:13] I have to contribute. I have a
[109:14] responsibility to contribute to the
[109:16] world.
[109:17] I could have put a lot less pressure on
[109:19] myself, but is that
[109:21] is that meaningful? Is that a meaningful
[109:23] regret or a mistake? I can't say that
[109:25] that's true.
[109:26] Would the outcome have been any
[109:27] different?
[109:28] Would I have worked any less more
[109:31] diligently? I don't know.
[109:34] Well, it's a good thing you have because
[109:36] um you've really led the charge as it
[109:37] relates to muscle and the conversation
[109:40] around muscle and these subjects more
[109:42] broadly. But when I think of someone
[109:43] that is at the very forefront of
[109:45] educating the world on muscle and its
[109:47] importance and especially as we age that
[109:50] we can be
[109:51] forever strong um at least strong while
[109:54] we're still alive, then that person is
[109:55] you. And I can't imagine how many
[109:58] millions of people are better for that.
[110:00] I can't imagine. It'd be crazy if you
[110:01] could put them all in like a stadium or
[110:03] something and and get to meet them all
[110:04] that just had their lives just subtly
[110:07] altered. Even if it's just, you know,
[110:09] one decision to go for a walk or to do a
[110:12] little bit more resistance training once
[110:14] a week. That matters, right?
[110:16] And that's a really wonderful thing. And
[110:18] that's I kind of guess what your your
[110:20] all of your work is really aiming at is
[110:21] to find, understand someone, but then
[110:23] give them the the missing piece of
[110:25] information or inspiration so that they
[110:27] can pursue their very best self. And I
[110:29] thank you for doing the work that you do
[110:31] because
[110:32] I I'm sure those millions of people
[110:33] can't thank you themselves, but it's um
[110:35] it's really altering not just their
[110:37] lives, but also as you say the
[110:38] generations that are set to come after
[110:40] them and their children and so on. And
[110:41] that's one of the things I'm actually
[110:42] thinking much more about having spoken
[110:44] to you is the I've never thought because
[110:45] I don't have kids yet about the role
[110:47] models that I that I am or aren't to
[110:48] those kids that are watching me. And as
[110:50] you said it, I had a little flashback of
[110:52] my mom outside my house when I was like
[110:54] a a four, five year old and just
[110:55] watching her run up and down the street
[110:58] um over and over again in this tiny
[110:59] little sort of circle that she used to
[111:01] do and how that stayed with me for
[111:03] forever. That she cared about that. And
[111:06] that what that meant for us is um how
[111:08] children
[111:10] And it's a really powerful thing. It's a
[111:11] really wonderful thing cuz you know,
[111:13] this isn't really about muscle at the
[111:14] end of the day. This is
[111:15] about much more It's not
[111:18] medicine is the gateway to really be
[111:21] able to provide freedom for people.
[111:22] That's what I want. Mhm.
[111:25] Muscle is the way in. Medicine is the
[111:27] way in, but what I really want for
[111:28] people
[111:29] is I want them to have freedom.
[111:32] And that freedom is happiness. It is.
[111:35] Yeah, or whatever it is that they want
[111:36] to do. Mhm. Thank you so much. It's such
[111:38] an honor to meet you. Thank you for
[111:40] having me.
[111:41] [Music]
[111:48] Isn't this cool? Every single
[111:50] conversation I have here on the Diary of
[111:51] a CEO, at the very end of it, you'll
[111:53] know I ask the guest to leave a question
[111:57] in the Diary of a CEO. And what we've
[111:59] done is we turned every single question
[112:02] written in the Diary of a CEO into these
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[112:12] back of it, if you scan that QR code,
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[112:36] of some limited edition conversation
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[112:42] [Music]
[113:01] [Music]
