Cosmologist Keating Allocates $200 Million to Test Cosmic Inflation Theory

宇宙学家Keating投入2亿美元验证宇宙暴胀理论 据宇宙学家Brian Keating称，践行不可知论具有个人价值，而从统计概率来看智慧外星生命几乎不可能存在。 宇宙学家Brian Keating与主持人Stephen Bartlett共同探讨了宇宙起源、耗资2亿美元的Simons Observatory项目，以及科学探究与信仰和不可知论的交集。Keating深入剖析了多项复杂的科学概念，包括物理常数的微调、模拟理论以及智慧外星生命在统计上的极低概率。在整场对话中，他们还深入探讨了关于道德、历史人物的冒充者综合征以及赋予人类存在终极意义的深刻哲学问题。 科学是一场专注于不断探索与发现的“无限游戏”，而像教授职称或诺贝尔奖等有限的里程碑，仅仅是其中的次要节点。 (2:07) Brian Keating最初在南极发现的原初引力波因后来意识到信号是由银河系尘埃引起的而被撤回，这促成了在智利开展耗资2亿美元的新天文台项目。 (1:08) Keating自认是一名践行不可知论者，他认为科学处理的是基于证据的知识，而宗教信仰则依靠信念维系。 (4:37) 生命所必需的重元素（例如人体血红蛋白中的铁）是在宇宙历史中爆发的超新星内部锻造而成的。 (9:58) 实践性不可知论应当体现在道德努力和伦理担当等实际行动中，而非纯粹消极的“不信”。 (30:41)

Astrophysicist Brian Keating argues that modern cosmology is approaching physical data capable of probing the universe's origin, while maintaining that empirical science and religious practice fulfill entirely distinct human roles. Balancing rigorous skepticism with a behavioral approach to faith, Keating asserts that both the universe's fine-tuned history and conscious life are extraordinarily rare phenomena that demand existential humility. Chasing Cosmic Inflation and Overcoming False Signals (16:55) Keating recounts leading the BICEP experiment at the South Pole, an environment chosen because its dry, sub-zero atmosphere prevents atmospheric water vapor from absorbing cosmic microwave signals. Although the team initially announced they had detected polarization patterns demonstrating cosmic inflation and the Big Bang's earliest reverberations, their findings collapsed six months later in early 2015 when the signal was proven to be galactic dust from exploded stars. Despite the psychological devastation of a public retraction, Keating partnered with the late mathematician and billionaire Jim Simons to launch a $200 million observatory in Chile's Atacama desert. The Chilean observatory achieved 'first light' just prior to Simons' death, deploying advanced sensors to capture the primordial microwave background with unprecedented precision and eliminate interference from interstellar debris. Empirical Knowledge Versus Behavioral Religious Practice (48:03) Identifying as a 'practicing, very devout agnostic' and an observant Jew, Keating maintains a strict philosophical boundary between scientific proof and religious belief. He notes that while science translates to empirical knowledge, faith (*emunah*) operates on trust and tradition. However, Keating challenges passive agnosticism, arguing that an open mind should be reflected in daily habits rather than indistinguishable from non-believing atheism. Adopting a behaviorist approach, Keating incorporates religious traditions—such as tithing 10% of pre-tax income to charity and reciting structured blessings of gratitude—into his life regardless of whether God's existence can be proven. He contends that if an advanced simulation or physical discovery proved there is no creator, his moral conduct would remain unchanged because the practical disciplines of faith provide tangible familial, psychological, and communal benefits. Rare Earth Conditions and Statistical Cosmic Solitude (82:00) Addressing the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, Keating cautions against confusing astronomical scale with high probability. Although the observable universe contains an estimated 1 septillion ($10^{24}$) planets across billions of galaxies, there is currently zero scientific evidence of extraterrestrial life, and synthetic organic chemistry has yet to explain how non-living elements spontaneously arrange into self-replicating cells. Keating argues that complex life on Earth required a precarious series of cosmological contingencies: a giant impact with the protoplanet Theia that produced the Moon and stabilized ocean tides, cometary bombardment delivering water across 70% of the surface, Jupiter's gravitational shield deflecting deep-space projectiles, and the Chicxulub asteroid impact 65 million years ago that cleared the dinosaurs. Assigning conservative 1-in-10,000 odds to just six of these sequential requirements yields an overall probability of $10^{-24}$, leading Keating to conclude that humanity is likely alone in the observable universe. Transcending Imposter Syndrome and Redefining Purpose (94:00) Keating's personal view of success evolved from an intense early drive to win a Nobel Prize—partially motivated by competing with his late scientist father—to finding internal purpose in human connection. He observes that imposter syndrome reaches the apex of the scientific establishment, recalling how 2017 Nobel laureate Barry Barish felt unworthy when signing the prize ledger alongside Albert Einstein, while Einstein in turn felt eclipsed by Isaac Newton. Moving past the need for external accolades, Keating redefines the meaning of life as cultivating endeavors and relationships so consequential that losing them would be completely devastating. He concludes that true meaning stems from responsibility toward family and community rather than chasing status or escaping fear of mortality. While the Simons Observatory continues to gather data to test whether spacetime originated from a singular Big Bang, a cyclic bounce, or a quantum fluctuation, Keating emphasizes that physical equations cannot resolve moral meaning or human grief. The fundamental question remains how conscious beings will stewarding an exceptionally rare planetary existence in an otherwise silent universe.

天体物理学家布莱恩·基廷（Brian Keating）指出，现代宇宙学正在通过高精尖观测设备追寻时空起源的实证数据，但他主张将科学经验与神学信仰严格区分；同时，基于地球生命形成过程中一系列极其苛刻的天体演化条件，他推测人类在可观测宇宙中极大概率是唯一的智慧生命。 宇宙暴胀探测与两亿美元观测重启 (16:55) 基廷回顾了其团队此前在南极开展的BICEP实验。该实验最初曾向全世界宣布探测到了宇宙大爆炸初期的时空暴胀信号，并引发了诺贝尔奖级别的轰动；然而六个月后团队发现，所测得的偏振信号实际上来自银河系内数万亿吨的星际尘埃，最终不得不公开发表撤回声明，这一挫折被他称为科研生涯中最具毁灭性的打击。 面对早期数据的失误，基廷并未放弃对宇宙诞生微波背景辐射的追寻。在已故数学家兼亿万富翁吉姆·西蒙斯（Jim Simons）的资助下，团队组建了顶级科研合作组，投入2亿美元在智利高海拔荒漠建立了全新的西蒙斯天文台。基廷透露，该天文台在西蒙斯去世前一个月成功实现了“初光”观测，目前已获取前所未有的高精度数据，旨在通过更先进的技术排查银河杂质，验证宇宙是否曾经历暴胀并产生原初引力波。 行为主义不可知论与信仰实践界限 (30:41) 在科学与神学的交叉点上，基廷自称是一位“严格践行的不可知论者”与犹太教徒，但他坚持科学与信仰不可混淆。他解释道，希伯来语中“阿门”源于代表信仰的词汇“emunah”，而科学（Science）在词源上代表确凿的“知识”；科学研究重在证据（例如对引力的验证），而非空洞的主观相信。基廷反对用简单的宗教结论替代科学探究，批评将彩虹等物理色散现象轻率归结为“神创造的”会扼杀青少年的探索好奇心。 针对主持人关于神学审判与善恶的疑问，基廷提出了“行为主义”视角：人类或许永远无法在数学或经验上彻底证实神的存在，但宗教框架在现实中提供了宝贵的道德约束与感恩习惯，例如促使人践行将税前收入的10%用于慈善。他认为，若存在一位具备常识的神，其评判标准必然基于个体的道德行动与真诚求索，而非计较其具体隶属于哪个教派；即便没有确凿神学证据，严谨的自律实践同样能显著提升人生的心理与精神厚度。 稀有地球演化链与地外生命的概率 (77:34) 尽管天文学测算显示可观测宇宙拥有约10^24颗行星（银河系内即有千亿颗恒星与海量行星），但基廷明确表示，目前人类掌握的地外生命直接证据为“0.00%”。他警告公众切勿将巨大的物理“可能性”与实际的“概率”混为一谈。从无机化学物质到能够自我复制的复杂细胞生命（无生源论），其跨越难度在合成有机化学界至今仍是未解之谜。 基廷以模型论证了地球环境成形的极端偶然性：早期地球首先经历了与火星大小的原行星忒伊亚（Theia）的剧烈碰撞，撞击抛射物凝聚成月球，赋予了地球稳定的自转倾角与引发潮汐的引力，为海洋生物走向陆地奠定了物理条件；随后数百万年的彗星轰炸带来了覆盖地表70%的水分；6500万年前直径约6英里的希克苏鲁伯小行星撞击引发全球核冬天并导致恐龙灭绝，才为小型哺乳动物乃至人类的演化腾出生态位；此外，木星等外围气态巨行星还长期扮演着阻挡外太空天体撞击的“引力盾牌”。基廷指出，哪怕仅将其中六个关键天体与生物偶发事件按万分之一的极保守概率连乘，其综合概率亦低至10^-24，说明复杂智慧生命极可能是地球独有的奇迹。 无限科研博弈与内在生命意义重构 (90:50) 基廷将科学探索划分为“无限博弈”与“有限博弈”。科学追求真理的过程本身是一场永无止境的无限博弈，无法被真正“赢下”；但其发展过程由众多残酷的有限博弈构成，包括争夺终身教职以及角逐诺贝尔奖。基廷分享了诺贝尔奖得主巴里·巴里什（Barry Barish）在领奖签署历史名册面对爱因斯坦签名时的冒名顶替综合征，并指出连爱因斯坦和牛顿亦曾饱受此种自我怀疑的困扰，借此说明外界荣誉无法赋予真正的内心安宁。 在个人价值观的演变中，基廷坦言年轻时曾渴望通过赢得诺贝尔奖来证明自己并匹敌同为杰出科学家的父亲；但随着阅历增长，他彻底放弃了对外部评价的追逐。他将生命的终极意义重新定义为建立深厚的人际联结与高风险责任——即从事那些“一旦失去便会让人彻底心碎崩溃”的深刻事业。他强调，科研中的失败只是走向真理的学习过程，而对妻子、儿女的深厚爱意以及对现实社群的担当，远比冷冰冰的学术奖章更能解答生而为人的根本价值。 基廷总结指出，科学无法为终极神学命题提供一劳永逸的结论，但能以严格的数据破除迷信与盲从。在他看来，探究宇宙并非为了追逐全知或神级荣誉；意识到地球演化链条的极度脆弱与生命的极端罕见，恰恰赋予了人类特殊的伦理使命——在浩瀚冷寂且大概率荒芜的宇宙中，更加珍视当下的生命、理性探索与人际连结。

## Background 该视频由 YouTube 频道《The Diary Of A CEO》于 2024 年 12 月 2 日发布。节目邀请了加州大学圣迭戈分校的宇宙学家兼实验物理学家布赖恩·基廷（Brian Keating）教授，深入探讨耗资 2 亿美元的宇宙起源探测项目、科学视角下的上帝、模拟理论以及地外生命等终极存在问题。 ## TL;DR 加州大学圣迭戈分校的天体物理学家布赖恩·基廷与主持人斯蒂芬·巴特利特展开深度对话，回顾了南极 BICEP 实验因星际尘埃干扰错失原初引力波的心碎历程，并介绍了阿塔卡马沙漠西蒙斯天文台对宇宙创生的最新探寻。基廷以“恪守实践的虔诚不可知论者”视角，剖析了科学经验与神学信仰的边界，指出将复杂自然偷懒归因于神既贬低了科学也矮化了神性。对谈还深入推演了模拟理论的无限倒退悖论、地外生命诞生的极端严苛概率，并借由顶尖学者普遍遭受的冒名顶替综合征，探讨了摆脱荣誉执念、向内建立深刻联结的人生终极意义。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话在宏大深邃的宇宙物理与极具温度的人性自省之间自如切换，既有硬核天体推演，又洋溢着哲学思辨与幽默火花。基廷手持数十亿年前的陨石切片侃侃而谈，面对科研重创与丧父之痛展现出真挚而克制的脆弱感；巴特利特则以尖锐追问穿透信仰与无神论的灰色地带，营造出一种兼具理智求索与精神共鸣的沉浸式智力漫游体验。 ## Bulletin - [08:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=495s) 耗资 2 亿美元的西蒙斯天文台项目正通过智利阿塔卡马沙漠的超灵敏观测设备，接替此前因银河系星际尘埃伪装信号而遭遇挫折的 BICEP2 实验，全力探测宇宙大爆炸与暴胀时期的原初引力波数据。 - [01:17:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4654s) 尽管可观测宇宙内拥有约 10^24 颗行星，但从地月潮汐碰撞、彗星送水到小行星灭绝恐龙，地球生命的诞生依赖于一系列极其严苛且顺序不可颠倒的天体事件，基廷据此推断人类在宇宙中大概率是绝无仅有的孤独存在。 - [59:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3571s) 针对尼克·博斯特罗姆的模拟假说，基廷指出该理论面临“模拟者背后是谁”的无限倒退困局，且深空伽马射线暴等观测实测显示微观时空依然连续平滑，目前没有任何支持空间被数字化“像素体素”离散化的证据。 - [43:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2591s) 基廷主张一种兼顾科学与信仰的行为主义视角，强调祈祷与戒律的真正力量并不在于向外祈求上帝干涉客观物理规律，而在于向内建立仪式化的感恩回路与对抗动物本能的精神自律。 ## Key takeaways - [02:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=124s) 科学探索是一场永无止境的“无限游戏”，但科研生态中充斥着终身教职竞聘、科研经费争夺与诺贝尔奖评选等残酷的零和“有限游戏”。 - [03:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=235s) 大爆炸宇宙学表明时空具有开端，时间和空间在奇点破裂时同步诞生，因此追问“大爆炸前那个周二发生了什么”在物理概念上缺乏前提支撑。 - [08:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=495s) 哈勃通过多普勒效应发现所有遥远星系光谱均呈现系统性红移，无可争议地证明宇宙空间处于不可逆的持续膨胀之中。 - [10:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=609s) 恒星因聚变产生铁元素吸热而坍缩并爆发为超新星，将重元素抛洒至星际空间，人体血液中的铁与数十亿年前的古老铁陨石在化学本质上完全同源。 - [15:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=927s) 南极 BICEP2 团队曾误将银河系内数万亿吨星际尘埃的偏振辐射当作宇宙大爆炸的原初引力波，这一重大挫败促成了排除尘埃干扰的西蒙斯天文台建立。 - [21:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1295s) 人类反思意识的诞生既可解释为达尔文式的自然演化，也可被视作造物主预先在 DNA 规律中编码的必然结果，两者目前均属于无法实证也无法证伪的假说。 - [30:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1820s) 基廷从行为主义出发质疑口头不可知论，指出若在日常行为中完全缺乏敬畏与宗教实践，其现实生活与坚定的无神论者别无二致。 - [39:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2366s) 将彩虹等未知现象直接归因为神是科学上的蒙昧与神学上的矮化，唯有顺着物理还原链条不断追问直至人类认知边界，才是神学讨论的合理切入点。 - [43:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2591s) 祈祷无法改变客观物理概率与灾难走向，其核心心理价值在于培养个体对生命细微美好的敬畏与感恩，并借助神圣戒律实现对本能欲望的克制。 - [49:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2970s) 即便宇宙起源最终被证明完全源于自然演化或模拟，基廷等行为主义者也不会改变现有的慈善与伦理生活方式，因为善行与自律本身能带来确切的生命价值。 - [57:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3460s) 模拟理论在哲学上面临无限倒退的死循环，在物理上受到平滑连续性的反驳，且对具有主观意识的“缸中之脑”断电将引发谋杀层面的伦理悖论。 - [01:02:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3751s) 庞大的行星数量仅代表广阔的物理舞台，“可能性并不等于概率”，无机化学物质自发跃迁为可自我复制生命的过程横亘着极高的概率屏障。 - [01:20:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4808s) 早期地球经历忒伊亚碰撞形成月球潮汐、冰冻彗星长期轰炸带来海洋、小行星撞击灭绝恐龙等一系列罕见事件，其发生顺序的不可替代性支持人类在宇宙中极为孤立的推论。 - [01:26:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5174s) 占星学关于星体引力决定命运的假说无法通过双盲测试，相同日期出生的性格表象本质上是受孕周期导致的社会学聚集效应与气候环境变量所致。 - [01:30:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5450s) 人生的终极意义在于创造那些“一旦从生命中被剥夺便会彻底摧毁灵魂”的深厚联结，这种基于家庭与子女的纽带远比追求诺贝尔奖等外在头衔更为本质。 - [01:33:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5638s) 从巴里·巴里什、爱因斯坦到牛顿，顶尖巨匠普遍受困于“冒名顶替综合征”，在各自崇拜的偶像面前感到卑微，证明盲目神化荣誉与权威并无必要。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=0s) 开篇导引：探寻存在的终极真相与科学的挫败 加州大学圣迭戈分校的天体物理学家兼教授布赖恩·基廷（Brian Keating）在访谈开场展示了极具冲击力的实物：一片来自爆炸恒星的弹片碎片，以及一块形成于40多亿年前的珍贵陨石——他调侃称这正是埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）为之狂热追寻的东西。这一切研究的核心，都在于回答人类最原初的渴望：“我们究竟因何而来？”以及“上帝在这一切中究竟扮演了什么角色？”基廷指出，人类有史以来第一次可能凭借确凿的科学硬数据来正面回答这些根本问题。 回顾天文学史，400年前伽利略（Galileo Galilei）透过望远镜凝望星空，让人类意识到地球并非宇宙的中心。如今我们已确知宇宙的浩瀚远远超出人类的理解极限：如果将宇宙比作一张会议桌，地球连一粒微尘或沙粒都算不上，甚至在整个银河系中也渺小得无从察觉。然而，人类至今仍未弄清宇宙究竟是如何起源的。 基廷曾主导过一项深入地球最南端——南极洲的深空观测实验（BICEP2），他们曾一度坚信自己捕获到了时空诞生的原始印记。那一刻让他几乎触摸到了诺贝尔奖的奖杯，团队的成果登上了全球主流报纸的头条。然而残酷的反转随之降临：他们检测到的根本不是预期的宇宙起源引力波，而是来自银河系的尘埃干扰。基廷坦言，尽管自己平时情绪稳定，但被迫撤回发现的经历是科学家所能承受的最痛彻心扉的重击。但他并未停步，而是发起了耗资高达2亿美元的新探测项目，如今获得的数据极为精细，正以百分之百的确定性推动我们逼近真相。 主持人随后穿插呼吁，提到长期收听节目的听众中有53%尚未订阅，希望大家点击订阅支持，以确保制作团队能够持续邀请顶级嘉宾并提升内容质量。 --- ### [02:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=124s) 科学探索：人生使命与“无限游戏”中的有限角逐 当被问及毕生所肩负的使命时，基廷谦虚而动情地表示，自己是“地球上最幸运的人”。尽管收入算不上丰厚，但他能靠研究自己12岁时在纽约上州作为满脸粉刺的少年就痴迷的问题来谋生。他认为探究“我们如何来到这里”是人类独一无二的心结——人在出生前的事实只能听凭长辈转述，但对于宇宙起源这一人类出现前唯一发生的宏大事件，根本没有任何目击者可以询问，而这个宇宙却承载了生命、意识、思想以及播客和日常生活的全部。 探讨科研的驱动力时，基廷借用了“有限游戏与无限游戏”的概念来解析科学界深层的争议与竞争： - **无限游戏**：科学探索整体上是一场没有最终终点的“无限游戏”，科学本身无法被彻底“赢下”或终结。 - **有限游戏**：在无限的长河中，布满了由无数个零和竞争构成的“有限游戏”，每一场比赛往往只有唯一的一位赢家。例如，他获得了加州大学圣迭戈分校的教授席位，意味着399名其他竞争者与之失之交臂；终身教职（tenure）的争夺同样残酷。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 科学研究中的双层博弈模型 accDescr: 展现科学界在终极追求与日常学术竞争之间的层级关系 subgraph Infinite["无限游戏：科学与真理"] A["探寻宇宙终极真理<br>（永无止境的认识过程）"] end subgraph Finite["有限游戏：学术晋升与荣誉"] B["教职与终身教职竞聘<br>（淘汰数百名同行）"] C["重大科研经费争取<br>（2亿美元级项目立项）"] D["科学奖项竞逐<br>（诺贝尔物理学奖每年至多3人）"] end Infinite --> Finite Finite -.->|汇聚推动| Infinite ``` 基廷坦承，他的著作就直白地取名为《失去诺贝尔奖》（*Losing the Nobel Prize*），因为每年在整个领域至多只有三人能摘得这一桂冠。正是这些在有限游戏与无限游戏之间的拉扯，让宇宙起源的研究充满了最炽热的情感和最具争议的学术交锋。 --- ### [03:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=235s) 追问“大爆炸前那个周二”：时间的本质与起源之谜 基廷强调，宇宙的起源至今依然不是一门已经盖棺定论的科学（not a settled science）。关于宇宙是一次性产生、永恒存在、经历周期性的“创生与毁灭”循环，还是符合类似宗教经典所描述的创世模型，科学界并没有掌握绝对的事实，一切仍处于悬而未决的开放状态。人类的大脑当前正处于一种奇特的“叠加态”：我们掌握了海量知识，却面临更多的未知；我们拥有解决问题的工具，却缺少终极的答案。 他形象地提出一个假想命题：“我想要知道大爆炸发生前的那个周二究竟发生了什么？” - **无“昨日”的概念困境**：设想存在这样的一天，在其之前根本不存在“昨天”。哪怕有人能在场，从概念上都无法去描述或表述这种状态。 - **时间的流动机制**：如果时间本身具有一个确切的起点，时间究竟该如何开始流逝？ 由此引申出对“时间”本质的深层哲学反思： - 时间究竟是钟表指针机械走过的度量，还是岁月在鬓角留下的白发？ - 亦如爱因斯坦的相对论比喻：坐在滚烫火炉上的一分钟，与陪伴在美丽女友身旁的一小时，主观感知截然不同，这两种对时间的度量方式是否具有同等效力？ - 物理学的底层共识是：如果宇宙拥有一个奇点般的单一开端，那么时间维度本身也是在那一刻同空间一道被同步创造出来的。 --- ### [05:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=333s) 科学镜头下的上帝：一位“虔诚的不可知论者”视角 当话题转向“上帝是否存在以及上帝具有何种形式”这一终极命题时，基廷承认这是他热衷探索但多数同行避之不及的禁区。在主流学术圈，正统的职业科学家如果公开谈论甚至推演上帝的可能性，往往会被视作异端或缺乏严谨。 基廷对自己的信仰状态给出了一个看似矛盾却深具启发性的定义：“一名恪守实践的、非常虔诚的不可知论者”（a practicing, very devout agnostic）。 - **信仰与科学知识的界限**：在希伯来语中，“阿们”（Amen）源自词根“Emunah”（אמונה），意为坚定相信与信仰。但基廷强调，自己“并不‘相信’引力”——如果拿起手中的岩石松开，它会坠落，这是由经验证据所支撑的事实。科学（Science）一词在词源上本意即为“知识”（Knowledge），而非纯粹的信条、宗教或神学。 - **作为科研“调味料”的上帝概念**：基廷将对上帝与创世者的思考视作繁重枯燥科研中最美妙的一抹香料。无论实验最终是证实了《妥拉》（旧约圣经）中有关宇宙开端的叙事，还是彻底证伪了三大一神教关于造物的创世神话，一名优秀的科学家都必须对这两种结果保持全然开放的态度。 - **科学硬数据的历史契机**：人类如今正站在历史的关键节点上，现代物理学与宇宙学终于具备了获取硬核科学数据（hard data）的能力，能够实质性地检验各大文明世代相传的创世叙事中，哪一种能在科学上立足。 --- ### [08:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=495s) 2亿美元观测计划与膨胀宇宙的发现：红移与多普勒效应 为了用数据解决这些亘古难题，基廷及其国际合作团队启动了一项耗资2亿美元的前沿天文观测计划（西蒙斯天文台项目）。基廷回顾了近现代宇宙学的核心演进过程： 在长达两千多年的漫长岁月里，人类主流认知一直坚信宇宙是永恒不变、无始无终的静态实体。直到距离对话现场不远的洛杉矶好莱坞北部威尔逊山天文台，天文学家埃德温·哈勃（Edwin Hubble）使用当时全球最先进的100英寸（口径约2.5米）胡克望远镜，彻底打破了这一千年定势。 哈勃观测到了震惊世界的现象：宇宙中每一个能被观测到的星系（每个星系都包含类似太阳的上千亿颗恒星），无一例外都在高速远离我们所在的银河系。哈勃之所以能得出这一颠覆性结论，关键在于对“红移”（Redshift）现象的发现与测量。 基廷用生动的物理机制解释了这一现象： - **多普勒效应（Doppler Shift）**：奥地利物理学家多普勒所发现的波动原理。当救护车拉着警笛朝你迎面驶来时，声波在运动方向被压缩，波长变短，频率上升，听到的音调变高；当救护车呼啸远去时，声波被拉伸，频率下降，音调变低。 - **光的波长与色彩变化**：光同样是一种电磁波。光源朝观察者移动时发生“蓝移”（波长更短、频率更高）；光源背离观察者远去时则发生“红移”（红光的波长较蓝光更长、频率更低）。 哈勃凭借无可争议的实测数据证实，所有遥远星系的光谱普遍呈现出系统性红移。基廷打趣道：面对这一悖论，摆在天文学家面前的只有两种荒谬的解释——要么是银河系没有喷“宇宙止汗除臭剂”，导致全宇宙所有星系都避之不及地从我们身边逃窜；要么，就是整个宇宙空间本身正处于不可逆的持续膨胀之中，明天的宇宙注定会比今天更加巨大。 ### [10:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=609s) 宇宙大爆炸、恒星锻造与“我们皆是星尘” 如果将宇宙膨胀的过程像倒放电影一样回溯，今天星系之间的距离比昨天更远，那么昨天它们彼此靠得更近。一路倒退回去，所有的物质、能量以及过去、现在和未来存在的一切，最终都会汇聚坍缩至极小的一个点——甚至是一个奇点（Singularity），这就是宇宙大爆炸的起点。根据大爆炸宇宙学模型，宇宙诞生于某个特定的瞬间，时间和空间在此刻开端，基本元素也随之形成。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 元素与生命的宇宙演化链 accDescr: 从大爆炸奇点到恒星核聚变，再到超新星爆发赋予人类生命元素的完整路径。 subgraph S1["宇宙创生与恒星演化"] A["大爆炸奇点<br>时空与轻元素诞生"] --> B["引力聚集气体<br>形成恒星与核聚变"] B --> C["合成较重元素<br>铁核聚变吸热导致恒星坍缩"] end subgraph S2["死亡与新生"] C --> D["超新星爆发<br>抛射星际物质"] D --> E["行星与陨石形成<br>地球铁核与地壳"] D --> F["人体生命元素<br>血液血红蛋白中的铁"] end ``` 在数十亿年的漫长岁月里，这些原始元素在引力作用下相互吸引汇聚，将氢原子核聚变成氦，继而层层锻造出更重的元素。当恒星内部尝试聚变生成铁元素时，核聚变不仅不再释放能量，反而开始吸收能量，导致恒星无法继续支撑自身的巨大重量，最终剧烈坍缩并在狂暴的超新星爆发中解体。超新星在走向终结的“烟火秀”中，将钙、氧、氮、铁等重元素抛洒到浩瀚的星系之间。正如天文学家卡尔·萨根（Carl Sagan）的名言所说：“我们都是星尘（We are star stuff）。” ### [11:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=694s) 穿越 40 亿年的天外信使：陨石、纯碳与南极火山岩 布莱恩·基廷在演播室桌上拿出了几件来自宇宙与地球极地的真实标本。其中一块主要是铁质的陨石碎片，正是超新星爆发后留下的“宇宙弹片”。这些陨石以每小时数万英里的速度冲入地球大气层，可以通过雷达追踪其速度，其独特的密度、金属结构和表面熔蚀纹路清晰标明了它的地外身份。 现场展示的具体样本包括： - **阿根廷“星之原野”（Campo del Cielo）陨石**：这是一块形成于 40 亿年前的太阳系早期残余化石，其历史甚至比地球本身还要古老。 - **纯碳黑方块**：外形酷似黑色骰子且质地极轻。布莱恩幽默地表示，如果将这块纯碳加压十万倍做成钻石送给伴侣，对方一定会非常开心，正如俗话所说：“压力能将尘埃化作钻石。” - **南极火山岩标本**：布莱恩曾两度前往南极点（South Pole），这块标本采自南极大陆的活火山区域，表面布满了气体逸出形成的气孔。 - **纳米比亚陨石（如 Gibeon 陨石）**：外观形似一只人类脚掌，数百至上千年前被当地土著发现。它极其致密沉重，斯蒂芬拿在手中对这种与其体积完全不匹配的惊人重量感到震惊。 为了展示其强磁性，布莱恩用一颗强力钕磁铁（稀土磁铁）靠近这块铁陨石，伴随着一声清脆响亮的“叮”的一声金属撞击声，磁铁牢牢吸附在表面。布莱恩以此指出，这块古老陨石中的铁，在化学本质上与流淌在人体血管中的铁完全一致——人体血红蛋白分子与植物叶绿素结构高度相似，唯一的区别仅在于叶绿素的核心是镁原子，而人类血液的核心是铁原子。我们体内的铁元素，正是由几十亿年前那些爆裂的恒星所赋予的。 ### [15:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=927s) 捕捉宇宙的“婴儿照”：南极 BICEP 的荣耀与心碎 谈及那项斥资两亿美元的科学宏愿，布莱恩用枪击现场作比喻：人们看到枪口冒出的烟雾和飞速飞行的子弹，但物理学家渴望看清究竟是谁扣动了扳机——究竟是上帝、大自然，还是多重宇宙中的一次量子涨落？科学团队的目标是利用对微波波段极度灵敏的探测器，拍下一张“宇宙初生时的婴儿照”，寻找唯有在时空发生剧烈暴胀（Inflation）与奇点破裂时才会留下的原初引力波偏振图样。 由于水蒸气会极强地吸收微波辐射（这正是微波炉加热咖啡的物理机制），为了避开水汽干扰，科研团队花费数年时间，将望远镜运往地球最干燥、最寒冷的大陆末端——南极点。 观测实验原本取得了看似震动世界的成果： - 科学团队最初宣称观测到了空间和时间创生时的回响与暴胀涟漪，该成果一度被全球媒体誉为“有史以来最伟大的科学发现之一”。 - 然而团队被对重大突破的渴望蒙蔽了双眼，最终的科学复核带来了毁灭性的打击：探测器捕捉到的根本不是大爆炸的原初引力波，而是银河系内数万亿吨星际尘埃发出的偏振信号。 - 这些来自恒星解体后遗留的宇宙尘埃，在特定微波频段上完美伪装并模拟了大爆炸信号，团队在短短六个月后的 2015 年初不得不公开承认观测失误。 ### [18:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1085s) 西蒙斯天文台的新起点与宇宙起源之争 在 BICEP 项目遭遇重创后，著名数学家、亿万富翁兼慈善家吉姆·西蒙斯（Jim Simons）找到了布莱恩，决定组建一支顶尖的科学家梦之队，在智利的阿塔卡马沙漠建造规模更庞大的“西蒙斯天文台”（Simons Observatory），以彻底排除银河系尘埃的干扰，完成前代望远镜未能达成的使命。遗憾的是，西蒙斯在该望远镜捕捉到“第一道光”（First Light）的一个月后辞世，但他生前得以亲眼见证了这台仪器采集到的首批极其精准绝妙的宇宙数据。 谈及宇宙起源的终极问题，布莱恩坦言，作为科学家他只追求客观真相，但科学信号往往会被不同意识形态所争抢和解读。当年团队误以为探测到原初信号时，各方阵营的反应早已预演了未来的舆论风暴： - **神学与宗教阵营**：诸多顶尖神学学者认为，原初引力波的证实证明了上帝的存在与创世时刻——即《圣经·创世记》中所记载的“Fiat Lux（要有光）”，宇宙在特定瞬间由无到有被创造出来。 - **激进无神论阵营**：以理查德·道金斯（Richard Dawkins）等人为代表的科学家则坚称，大爆炸只是一次无意义的虚无中诞生的量子场涨落，完全不需要造物主的存在，甚至彻底推翻了上帝创世的说辞。无论未来的天文观测最终得出何种数据，关于意义与信仰的激烈交锋都注定仍将持续。 ### [20:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1223s) 人类大脑对模糊性的厌恶与科学探索的谦逊 布莱恩·基廷（Brian Keating）谈到，主流报纸上时常充斥着各路宣称“证明了上帝存在”或“证明了上帝不存在”的头条文章。但他本人绝不会狂妄自大到认为自己或其研究团队能够为此盖棺定论。尽管他们的探索会在历史的长河中激起回响，但科研中同样存在一种可能——那就是“什么都没发现”。对人类而言，最艰难的恰恰是面对“虚无”与“不确定性”。人类的大脑天生痛恨模糊性，就像面对堕胎权、跨性别权利或移民等争议议题时，大脑总是急于站队：要么全盘支持，要么彻底反对。 基廷引用了一句古老的意第绪语谚语来解释这种心理机制：“站在马路正中央的人，两头的车流都会撞到他”（"he who stands in the middle of the road gets hit by both sides of the traffic"）。因此，人类的心智本能地倒向某一方以求安全感。在科学与宗教的宏大命题面前，基廷认为自己绝非裁决者，但能够置身其中、参与这场探索人生的“游戏”，本身就是一种极大的荣幸。 ### [21:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1295s) 上帝存在的线索、生命的创造与进化的奇迹 主持人斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）抛出了一个核心问题：“你所遇到的证明上帝可能存在的最有力证据是什么？”基廷坦言这是一个极其宏大而漫长的问题，并希望斯蒂芬有朝一日也能找到答案。从犹太教的视角来看，上帝是创造者与秩序的组织者——区分光明与黑暗、昼与夜、天地与万物，并最终创造了人类。尽管人类无法模仿造物主的无所不能，但在犹太-基督教传统中，上帝被冠以君王、主甚至“天父”的称谓。然而，人类唯一真正能够类比上帝创造行为的经验，就是孕育另一个人类生命。在这点上，女性作为承载生命创造的容器，拥有男性难以企及的深层联结与敬畏感。 但基廷强调，这些感受只是“线索”，绝非严格意义上的科学证明。上帝的存在既无法被证实，也无法被证伪，人必须学会适应这种模糊状态。随后两人展开了思想碰撞：斯蒂芬提出，从演化历史来看，现代形式的分娩和哺乳其实非常年轻；若生命源于数十亿年前单细胞生物的随机突变与分裂，这是否减损了创造的神圣感？基廷反思道，这里存在两种同样令人震撼的可能：一种是达尔文进化论描摹的自然历程，另一种则是有个超凡的造物主将演化演变为意识的潜能与程序，预先加密进了最初的 DNA 代码之中，让数十亿年后必然诞生出斯蒂芬或基廷这样能够反思宇宙的人类——究竟哪一种算作更大的奇迹，谁也无法下绝对定论。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 宇宙与意识起源的两种解释路径 accDescr: 对比达尔文进化论与神圣编码假说如何推导出人类自我反思意识的诞生。 subgraph 路径A["唯物与达尔文演化路径"] A1["单细胞生物分裂与突变"] --> A2["环境筛选与繁衍机制演变"] A2 --> A3["智人脑容量增长与意识萌芽"] end subgraph 路径B["神圣设计与编码假说"] B1["造物主设定初始条件"] --> B2["DNA中预置演化潜力与规律"] B2 --> B3["必然走向复杂意识与反思造物"] end A3 --> C["人类诞生（约20万年前）<br/>具备思考上帝、起源与存在意义的能力"] B3 --> C ``` - **物种历史与意识维度**：具有现代反思能力的智人（Homo sapiens）大约仅有 20 万年历史；换言之，人类能够概念化“上帝”的时间也不过这 20 万年。 - **对“起源”的执念**：当被问及一年中最喜欢哪一天时，人们通常会回答生日、结婚纪念日或孩子的出生日——人类对纪念日的热爱，本质上是对“起源”这一无法亲身目睹之谜的痴迷。 ### [26:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1568s) 恶的难题、严格决定论与世俗演化视角的困惑 对善意造物主假说最大的现实挑战莫过于“苦难与恶的起源”：如果存在全善全能的上帝，为何会有儿童白血病等无辜的痛苦？基廷解释，神学上的经典辩护通常认为，若世界没有随机性、混乱和变异，整个存在就只能陷入冷酷的绝对预设。例如神经学家萨姆·哈里斯（Sam Harris）所坚持的“严格决定论”（Strict Determinism）：从身体的微小抽搐到脱口而出的每个音节均已被物理因果注定，自由意志纯属幻象，在此框架下苦难无需神圣解释。然而基廷提出反思：人们常常追问“为何会有儿童罹患绝症”，却很少追问“人类为何能体验到如此高超的情感、精神愉悦与深刻的爱”——在天地之间，这种体验有限生命之美的能力同样是无法轻易被功利化解释的奇迹。 斯蒂芬·巴特利特则从纯演化生物学角度表达了自己的理解与困惑： - **亲情与爱的演化机制**：新生儿降生时父母体内汹涌的保护欲与爱意，纯粹是亿万年繁衍筛选出的生存优势基因在代际传递中的强化。 - **恶与疾病的去神圣化**：癌症与疾病不带道德属性，世间恶行多源自人类脆弱大脑内神经递质、嫉妒、冲动与利益的演化纠葛。 - **无神论与不可知论的挣扎**：斯蒂芬坦陈自己 18 岁前信仰宗教，后受理查德·道金斯（Richard Dawkins）和萨姆·哈里斯等新无神论学者影响，转为不可知论者。他心中的巨大疑问在于：若一切生命只是大爆炸后无机化学反应碰巧拼接、历经亿万年演化出的巧合，人类意识只是脑容量变大后的副产品，这种解释虽符合科学逻辑，却会本能地剧烈冲击人类对“正义、归属感与人生终极意义”的渴望。 ### [30:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1820s) 不可知论还是无神论：行为主义视角的信仰质问 斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Stephen Bartlett）坦言，自己对信仰的探索并非为了追求某种心理上的温暖或慰藉，而是渴望弄清客观真相到底是什么，不论这个真相是否令人舒适，他依然寄希望于科学能给出最终的答案。布赖恩·基廷（Brian Keating）听后直言不讳地指出，斯蒂芬构建的逻辑链条中存在许多所谓的“缺失环节”（missing links）。基廷敏锐地捕捉到斯蒂芬自称是“不可知论者”（agnostic），但从日常行为来看，他不去教堂、不做弥撒，实际做派和坚定的无神论者别无二致。 基廷强调自己在生活中是个彻底的“行为主义者”（behaviorist），习惯通过一个人的实际举动而非口头声明来做出评判。既然自称不可知论者，理应在行为上表现出某种与有神论者相似的实践；如果完全没有任何敬畏或宗教实践，那在现实中就等同于无神论者。基廷反问斯蒂芬，为什么在谈到神时，他只期待科学来证实，却从没渴望过像基督徒期待耶稣显现那样去获得某种个人神圣启示？如果神真的存在，斯蒂芬在现实中到底有没有任何一种行为，足以在面临最终审判或审视时产生实质性区别。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 信仰状态与行为矩阵 accDescr: 展示神的客观存在与个人宗教实践行为交叉构成的四象限 subgraph Matrix ["信仰与行为矩阵"] direction TB Q1["象限 1：神存在 × 有宗教实践<br/>（积极求索，坦然面对审判）"] Q2["象限 2：神存在 × 无宗教实践<br/>（仅凭'做个好人'对赌天意）"] Q3["象限 3：神不存在 × 有宗教实践<br/>（获得秩序、修养与人类完整体验）"] Q4["象限 4：神不存在 × 无宗教实践<br/>（纯粹世俗生活，无实质损失）"] end Pos["斯蒂芬目前的处境：不确定神是否存在，但行为上完全不实践"] --> Q2 ``` --- ### [32:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1928s) 具有“常识”的神与对冲赌注的道德观 面对基廷的追问，斯蒂芬解释称，自己之所以没有任何宗教实践，是因为根本不知道哪位神存在、哪种宗教教义才是真的；如果随意采取某种仪轨，岂不就成了盲目的宗教徒。基廷随即抛出了一个类似于帕斯卡赌注（Pascal's Wager）的思维矩阵：横轴是“神存在”与“神不存在”，纵轴是“斯蒂芬表现得像信徒”与“斯蒂芬完全不信”。基廷提出一个大胆甚至称得上颠覆的假设：“我认为，如果神真的存在，祂一定具备‘常识’（common sense）。”基廷认为，假如神拥有常识，只要一个人怀揣真诚去探求或参与宗教体验——哪怕不强迫自己全盘盲信、不为世间的苦难与儿童患癌硬找借口——神绝不会因为你选错了门派（比如错选了印度教、耆那教或摩门教）而对你大发雷霆或施加严惩。 斯蒂芬听后大为触动，直言正是完全相同的推论让他在 18 岁那年彻底告别了宗教： - **童年经历**：斯蒂芬从小每周去教堂做礼拜、读《圣经》，在恐惧中长大，生怕违背天空中那位高高在上的主宰就会坠入地狱遭受烈火焚烧。 - **思想转折**：18 岁时，他阅读了理查德·道金斯（Richard Dawkins）的书籍以及大量相关著作，书中将神定义为“全知全能”（omnipotent and omniscient）。 - **常识逻辑**：斯蒂芬由此推论，一个全知全能的造物主必然极具智慧和常识，祂完全能够理解凡人在认知上的挣扎与局限。 - **道德对冲**：斯蒂芬因此确立了自己的人生信条——只要自己一生行善，不杀人、不作恶、善待他人、保持友善与尊重，为地球带来正向价值，那么任何值得人类敬仰崇拜的正派神明，都绝不会因为证据不足而将他拒于天堂门外。 --- ### [34:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2070s) 健身隐喻与“与神角力”的实践价值 基廷对斯蒂芬这种“只要做个好人就足够”的态度提出了尖锐的质疑。基廷打了个生动的比方：这就像一个人天天高喊“我想拥有好身材、为了孩子我想活得健康长寿”，转头却狂吃汉堡和薯条（基廷幽默地补充自己遵守犹太饮食教规 Kosher，所以绝不吃芝士汉堡），然后自我安慰说“反正代谢系统自己会搞定一切，命运会让我变瘦的”。基廷直言，如果在世俗事业中你都必须全力以赴，为何在面对终极造物时却试图不劳而获？ 基廷进一步阐述了他对信仰本质的理解： - **真理的折射性**：人类认知极其脆弱有限，各大宗教典籍可能都有对有错。这就像给 20 万年前住在洞穴里的原始人展示西蒙斯天文台（Simons Observatory）或 BICEP 微波望远镜一样，人类受限于维度，只能看到被极度折射后的神性碎片。 - **否定“天空中的朋友”**：基廷明确表示，理查德·道金斯所批判和嘲讽的那个坐在云端、能随时阻止婴儿死于癌症的“白胡子老头/天上的朋友”（friend in the sky），他自己同样坚决不信。 - **践行的独立价值**：实践仪式本身具有超越信条的意义，就如同“即便你未来可能离婚，你也应当体验结婚”，因为仪式与实践能重塑一个人的心智，打开整套丰富的人类精神图谱。 - **以色列（Israel）的词源启示**：在犹太传统中，“El”代表神，而“Israel”的字面含义正是“与神角力/与神搏斗”（fight/wrestle with God）。真正的信仰从来不是盲从，而是持续不断的思想交锋与内心博弈。 --- ### [38:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2289s) 认知的闭环重构：我们是否从一开始就找错了对象？ 斯蒂芬回应道，自己确实在不断“角力”，虽然这种思索并没有给他带来痛苦或焦虑，但随着年龄增长以及主持这档播客节目与各领域顶尖人物对话，他的内心产生了奇妙的轨迹。年少时他坚信上帝真实存在；18 岁后他无比笃定童年信仰的神是虚妄的；然而人到中年，他发现自己提出的疑问比 18 岁时还要多，仿佛重新启动了一项研究课题去探寻真相。 斯蒂芬提出一个深刻的省思：人类是否从一开始就搜寻错了目标？因为整个社会文化长期以来对神进行了过度具象的灌输——一个白胡子老爷爷、一个天宫中的人形实体。当我们拿着望远镜和科学仪器去寻找这种拟人化形象的证据时，自然一无所获。神可能根本不是一个具象实体，而是一种感知、一种存在底色或某种不可名状的维度。基廷对斯蒂芬的这一觉醒表示高度赞同，并引述了爱因斯坦的典故：爱因斯坦曾说，自己很庆幸五岁时没有去追问父亲“如果我以光速飞行并在镜子里看自己会发生什么”，有些根本性的认知问题，必须等到人类心智跨越了幼稚的表象阶段，才能真正开启严谨而成熟的探索。 ### [39:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2366s) 科学对战“上帝之手”：为什么把彩虹归因于神是对科学与造物的双重贬低 布赖恩·基廷（Brian Keating）以爱因斯坦早年的思想实验作为切入点：如果年轻的爱因斯坦当年只是被动接受19世纪物理学的标准答案，把镜中成像等现象视为理所当然，他就绝不可能提出划时代的相对论。同样，史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）如今在32岁时展现出的深度追问与认知成熟度，远超其12岁时的盲从与天真，这种洞见来源于阅历以及帮助全球数百万听众所积累的智慧。基廷坦言，他既无法容忍那些对宗教嗤之以鼻、武断斥其为“愚蠢”的科学家，也极为反感信教群体把所有未知都偷懒地归咎为“一切都是上帝安排的”。 基廷常常带着科学道具走进中小学课堂。当他指着天空中的彩虹询问孩子们“它从何而来”时，孩子们往往脱口而出：“上帝造的。”基廷打趣道，这种简单粗暴的灌输在某种程度上堪称一种“智力虐待”——它不仅在科学层面上表现得极其蒙昧，更从神学角度矮化了神的力量。真正的认知路径应当是层层追问：彩虹源于由氢和氧构成的水滴，水滴的化学聚集形成了特定的物质状态，这种介质引起了不同波长光线的折射，而波长属于电磁辐射；那么电磁辐射又从何而来？只有顺着这根链条不断追问“为什么”，直到最终抵达人类认知极限、只能回答“我不知道”的那一刻，才是上帝可能存在的切入点。这一追问链条从光的折射、介电材料一路回溯到宇宙大爆炸，恰好与当代前沿宇宙学产生了交集。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 认知追问链条与神学切入点 accDescr: 展示从自然现象逐步物理还原直到不可知的链条，以及宗教盲目归因与科学追问的对比。 subgraph S1["粗暴归因"] A["观察到彩虹"] --> B["'这是上帝造的' (认知终结)"] end subgraph S2["科学还原链条"] A --> C["水滴聚集与介质状态"] C --> D["光线折射与不同波长"] D --> E["电磁辐射机制"] E --> F["物质与辐射起源 (大爆炸)"] F --> G["物理认知边界: '我不知道'"] G -.-> H["上帝介入的合理探讨空间"] end ``` --- ### [41:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2478s) 祈祷与倾诉：上帝是意识实体，还是向内探索的共鸣？ 巴特利特直奔信仰的核心问题：既然基廷将上帝视作类似自然法则的“力”，那么这种力是否具备自我意识？如果一个人坐下来虔诚祈祷，上帝究竟能否听见？基廷非常坦率地回答：“我真的不知道，但我知道的是，你会因此改变，你会真正听见自己内心的声音。”基廷向巴特利特提出一个具体的行动挑战：独自一人走向太平洋海滩，在完全隔绝的环境中倾诉宣泄一小时。基廷断言这必然会改变一个人的人生，让人痛哭流涕，而这种极度私人化的宣泄必须在无人注视的孤寂中进行，任何外界注视都会破坏其纯粹性，即便是萨姆·哈里斯（Sam Harris）的《Waking Up》冥想 App 也无法替代这种体验——面对未知的无助，恰恰构成了这种体验的核心。 巴特利特随即对此提出了神经科学层面的尖锐质疑：跑到海边倾诉心声，无非是激活了大脑中的杏仁核，引发了情绪波动，甚至一段特定的音乐也能达到类似的情绪宣泄效果，这与上帝的存在有什么必然联系？基廷解释道，如果上帝确实存在，那祂必然内在于每一个个体之中，人类无法用核磁共振（MRI）或激光仪器直接探测到神的存在，科学也开不出让人凭空生出信仰的处方。为了建立这种连接，个体必须先主动打开沟通的通道。基廷借用电影《星际穿越》（Interstellar）打比方：留在地球上的女儿向深空中的父亲发送信息，她起初根本不知道远在黑洞另一端的马修·麦康纳（Matthew McConaughey）能否收到，正是这种“不顾一切去尝试连接”的举动，最终使她接收到了来自更高维度的回音。 --- ### [43:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2591s) 祈祷不能改变胜负与灾难：感恩与自律的真正价值 巴特利特进一步推导：即使上帝能听到祈祷，祂会干预现实世界吗？现实世界充斥着苦难，似乎证明祈祷根本无法左右物理现实。基廷回顾了《希伯来圣经》中萨拉（Sarah）、丽贝卡（Rebecca）和拉结（Rachel）等多年不孕的女性通过祈祷最终受孕的典故，指出女性因孕育生命而在精神上与神圣力量格外贴近，但针对现实中的因果干预，基廷毫不避讳地承认：科学规律表明，祈祷并不能改变客观事件的发生概率。比如洛杉矶道奇队（Dodgers）打比赛时，两边的球迷都在祈祷胜利，甚至回顾历史上犹太人大屠杀的惨剧或全球各类毁灭性的自然灾害，祈祷从未阻挡过灾难的降临。 祈祷与宗教仪轨的真正力量，并不在于向外索取神迹，而在于向内培育极致的感恩与自律： - **仪式化的感恩神经回路**：基督教在餐前谢恩（Grace），犹太教则在餐前、餐后甚至用餐中途反复念诵祝词。人在抱怨和忘恩负义中不可能获得幸福。犹太传统甚至要求人们在目睹流星雨、彩虹、品尝佳酿或享用美食时念诵祝词；如果人类的生活只剩下琼脂软糖或乳清蛋白粉来维持基本生命体征，生活将毫无美感，对细微美好的敏感与感激正是连接崇高本源的方式。 - **神圣自律对抗动物本能**：宗教戒律要求人们按固定顺序诵经、起立、坐下、定期禁食，乃至禁止食用“长着卷尾巴的美味粉红动物”（猪肉）。基廷将这种自我克制与现代硬汉博主乔科·威林克（Jocko Willink）的极致自律相提并论——纵容欲望、大吃大喝或沉溺酒精的人，其精神境界绝不可能比懂得克制、将自身行为升华到动物性之上的人更高尚。 --- ### [46:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2787s) 世俗的感恩与道德困境：博茨瓦纳的孩子与“楚门的世界” 面对基廷关于感恩与自律的论证，巴特利特给出了全场最强烈的无神论反驳：一个人完全可以在不引入任何“神”的概念的前提下，建立完备的感恩实践、冥想习惯，或是独自走向海滩宣泄内心情绪。巴特利特分享了自己生活中的真实习惯——每当登上飞机时，他都会下意识地用手触摸机身，提醒自己如今所拥有的一切是多么难以置信，回顾自己在过去短短十年间从一个在超市偷披萨充饥的穷小子成长为如今的对谈者，常常会产生一种身处《楚门的世界》（The Truman Show）般的荒诞与震撼，甚至会激动到身体颤抖。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 巴特利特的归因困境与死循环 accDescr: 展示巴特利特在感恩自身成功时面对不公所陷入的逻辑死循环。 A["取得非凡成就与人生跃迁"] --> B{"向谁表达感恩?"} B -->|"归功于神"| C["神垂青了我"] C --> D{"出生地博茨瓦纳的同龄人呢?"} D -->|"他们仍在苦海中"| E["神不爱他们? (道德矛盾)"] D -->|"神同样爱他们"| F["那为何境遇天差地别?"] E --> G["放弃神的归因"] F --> G G --> H["成就是个人奋斗与父母抉择的产物"] H --> I["只需感谢父母与自己"] I --> J["上帝在现实公式中毫无必要 (逻辑死循环)"] ``` 然而，正是这种强烈的感恩情绪引发了深刻的道德与逻辑悖论： - **归因对象的困惑**：当巨大的幸运降临时，一个人到底该向谁致谢？是感谢父母的付出、个人的奋斗，还是冥冥之中的神明？ - **博茨瓦纳的对照组困境**：巴特利特出生于非洲博茨瓦纳（Botswana），他深知当年留在故乡小镇上的同龄孩子们如今生活依然困顿挣扎。如果将自己的幸运归结为上帝的赐福，是否意味着上帝偏心、不爱那些留在博茨瓦纳的孩子？ - **上帝概念的冗余性**：如果答案是“上帝对所有人一视同仁”，那么现实境遇的天差地别显然完全是由个人选择、家庭决策或世俗机遇造就的，理应感谢父母和个人努力。如此一来，在这个解释成功的因果链条中，“上帝”这一变量便完全失去了立足之地，陷入了无法闭合的思想死循环。 ### [48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2880s) 敬畏之情、宗教戒律与行为主义 对话开始于斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）探讨人类对神性概念的投射。巴特利特指出，面对抓握住大人手指的婴儿、日全食的震撼、壮丽的落日或是心底升起的感激之情，人们往往感到那种敬畏（awe）过于强烈，以至于忍不住想要创造出一个“上帝”，用来安放和解释这些体验；或者反过来，这些真的是上帝赋予人类的感受。 布莱恩·基廷（Brian Keating）对此深表赞同，肯定了巴特利特的思考方式与健康心态。基廷强调，自己从不认为无神论者就不能成为善良或幸福的人，关键在于信念如何增强并塑造现实生活： - **税前收入的十一奉献（10% Tithing）**：基廷坦言，如果不是自己的宗教信仰中有明确的戒律要求，他并不确定自己是否会自觉自愿地把税前收入的10%捐给慈善机构。但这并不意味着应该对此感到羞愧。 - **探索与践行并存**：基廷认为自己和巴特利特一样，依然在不断探索，甚至不认为百分之百确定上帝的存在是可能的。但“无法确证上帝的存在”绝不应该成为阻止人践行慈善、融入社群、引导孩子理解文化历史与宗教贡献的借口。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 行动与回报的循环 accDescr: 展示从敬畏感知到宗教践行再到现实行为主义反馈的闭环系统 subgraph Perception ["感知与体验"] A["强烈体验: 日食 / 新生儿 / 落日"] --> B["心理敬畏与感恩"] end subgraph Practice ["实践与戒律"] B --> C["宗教行为模式: 慈善 / 社群 / 仪式"] C --> D["切实的现实福祉: 幸福感 / 健康跨度"] end subgraph Evaluation ["行为主义验证"] D --> E{"即使上帝被证伪\n是否改变行为？"} E -- "否: 行为本身带来价值" --> C end ``` --- ### [49:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2970s) 假若证明上帝不存在：行为主义视角与举重悖论 巴特利特提出了一个直击核心的假设：如果基廷参与发起的这项投资 2 亿美元的宇宙起源观测项目，最终无可辩驳地证明了上帝不存在——比如证实人类几千年后能在实验室凭空创造宇宙，或者证明整个宇宙只是一场模拟——基廷的生活会发生改变吗？ 基廷给出了否定的回答。他将自己定义为一名“行为主义者”（behaviorist）： - **生活不会因无神而变好**：如果明知上帝不存在就停止践行戒律、停止做慈善，自己的生活和整个社会都不会因此受益。就像他早已不信奉古希腊的宙斯（Zeus）或古埃及的太阳神拉（Ra）一样，他的善行已经带来了实质性的益处，所以即便上帝被证伪，他也不会改变现有的生活方式。 - **即时快乐与长期回报**：巴特利特提到自己也是通过行为和结果来指导生活的，比如冥想、呼吸练习、海滩漫步等；但这种追求感觉良好的机制不同于 Instagram 上那些推崇享乐主义的网红。巴特利特以吃甜甜圈做比喻：吃下去的瞬间感觉很棒，但接下来的 12 个小时肠胃都会痛苦抗议，因此他不会为了片刻口腹之欲而放纵。 - **健身与寿命的类比**：基廷反问巴特利特，如果科学研究表明每次做仰卧起坐或卧推都会缩短几分钟寿命，他还会继续健身吗？巴特利特回应，只要能在健康期保持健壮，他宁愿活到 90 岁并拥有高品质的“健康跨度”（health span），也不愿毫无活力地活到 100 岁。基廷以此说明，宗教实践带来的充实感、感恩心与幸福感是极其切实的，就像健身带来的生理和心理益处一样无法被轻易否定。 - **至高戒律与丧父经历**：基廷分享了自己安葬父亲的深切经历。在犹太教中，为逝者送葬并妥善料理后事被视为至高无上的善行（Mitzvah），因为逝者永远无法给予回报。人类社会中的大部分契约（商业投资、节目合作）都讲求互惠，唯独为亡者尽责是纯粹单向的付出。基廷坦承，虽然或许有人觉得这是软弱，但如果没有戒律的指引，自己可能根本不会去体会这种超越功利的崇高境界。 --- ### [53:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3217s) 模拟理论的起源与缸中之脑猜想 巴特利特顺势引出此前讨论中提及的“模拟理论”（Simulation Theory），询问这一理论的来龙去脉以及人类是否真的生活在模拟世界中。 基廷对这一假说进行了详细阐述： - **尼克·博斯特罗姆（Nick Bostrom）的推论**：瑞典哲学家尼克·博斯特罗姆提出，考虑到近几十年计算能力的爆炸式跃升，如果将这一趋势无限推演到未来，算力终将变得近乎无限、完全免费普及且去货币化（demonetized）。 - **跨时代的科技飞跃**：基廷拿手中的手机和巴特利特面前的 iPad 举例，指出如果把这些设备放到 80 年前，会被毫无疑问地视为神话般的巫术。照此趋势，未来的超级计算机完全具备模拟整个行星、生态圈、文明甚至具体人类个体的算力。 - **人类视觉与感官的物理本质**：基廷拆解了视觉信号的传输链路： - 光子作为能量包以光速行进，不同波长呈现为不同颜色。 - 光线穿过角膜和晶状体发生折射，投射到拥有数万亿像素级感受器的视网膜上。 - 视网膜上的视锥细胞（负责颜色）和视杆细胞（负责光照强度）将光信号转化为电脉冲。 - 正如神经科学家安德鲁·休伯曼（Andrew Huberman）此前在节目中所言，视网膜是人脑唯一延伸在颅骨外部的部分。 - **从头显设备到“缸中之脑”**：这些电脉冲通过视神经像导线传导电流一样进入大脑皮层与突触。如同巴特利特使用过的 Apple Vision Pro 可以通过数字电子元件投射逼真的全息影像，理论上未来根本不需要笨重头显，只需直接向大脑神经回路注入特定电信号，即可创造出完美的感官世界。同样的机制也适用于声音与人造视网膜。由此推演，人类在物理上完全可能只是被泡在营养液里的“缸中之脑”（brains in a vat），一切人际互动与宏大世界都只不过是计算机实时喂入大脑的虚拟刺激信号。 ### [57:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3460s) 模拟假说、无限倒退与“缸中之脑”的伦理悖论 科技的指数级演进往往超出人类最初的想象。回顾 1971 年，以当时的技术水平，根本不可能预见到如今像 Apple Vision Pro 这样精密的头显设备。如果算力沿着这条轨迹不断增长，理论上终将抵达一个临界点：宇宙中的每一个比特信息、每一个原子乃至每一个光子，都可以被超级计算机完整模拟。哲学家尼克·博斯特罗姆（Nick Bostrom）等人据此提出模拟假说，认为我们所感知的现实本质上完全可能只是运行在某种未知的超高级硬件上的代码程序，而我们不过是其中的模拟角色。史蒂芬随即发问：如果真是如此，我们是不是只是把这台终极计算机的创造者称作“上帝”？ 布莱恩·基汀顺着这个逻辑指出了一个哲学与物理上的死循环——无限倒退（infinite regress）。如果整个人类世界是一场模拟，那么是谁编写了这场模拟？编写我们世界的人又是由谁模拟的？层层向上追溯，这种递归永远无法触及所谓的“基准现实”（base level），除非最终存在一个不被创造的终极模拟者，而这在概念上已经与“上帝”毫无二致。此外，这还会立即引出严峻的伦理悖论：假设这个世界是由人类用硅和氧制造出的“缸中之脑”，某个月你发现自己交不起高昂的电费，必须在拔掉冰箱电源还是拔掉这颗大脑的电源之间做出抉择，关掉设备算不算是杀生？一旦赋予模拟程序主观意识，技术探讨便不可避免地滑向伦理学与神学领域。 - **技术的不可预测性**：从 1971 年的技术奇点无法推测出 Apple Vision Pro，但算力的持续暴增让模拟物理宇宙在理论推演中成为可能。 - **无限倒退的困局**：模拟者背后还有模拟者，层层递归无法自洽，除非存在一个具有神性的终极造物主。 - **伦理与“缸中之脑”**：人工构建的意识载体面临电力中断等生存抉择时，触及了谋杀、道德与神学造物的边界。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 模拟假说与无限倒退逻辑 accDescr: 展示从模拟技术演进到无限倒退及终极造物主/伦理困境的推导逻辑 subgraph S1["技术与模拟推演"] A["计算能力指数级增长"] --> B["完全模拟现实每个原子与光子"] B --> C["我们可能身处模拟之中<br/>(Nick Bostrom 假说)"] end subgraph S2["逻辑死循环与本质思考"] C --> D{"谁在模拟这个世界？"} D -->|"逐层追溯"| E["无限倒退 (Infinite Regress)"] E -->|"终极第一因"| F["终极模拟者 / 神的属性"] C --> G["伦理困境<br/>(断电缸中之脑算不算杀生？)"] end ``` --- ### [59:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3571s) 复杂性理论与宇宙不可模拟性：寻找模拟世界的“像素漏洞” 为了论证宇宙能否真正被模拟，布莱恩引入了复杂性理论（Complexity Theory）。他区分了两种本质不同的困难系统：一种是“繁复系统”（complicated），例如制造一架空客 A320 客机或建造西蒙斯天文台（Simons Observatory），虽然零件浩繁、步骤极度复杂，但只要提供详尽的图纸、充足的原料与组装工序，任何受过训练的人都能按部就班拼装完成；另一种则是“不可简化的复杂系统”（irreducibly complex），典型的例子就是地球当下的实时天气模式。你无法将其拆解成简单的积木再自下而上精确重建。要想 100% 毫秒不差地模拟地球天气，唯一的方法就是造一个尺寸一模一样、注入相同二氧化碳速率的实体行星，而这在计算与工程上毫无实用性。当下的天气预报虽然先进，但往往只能保持几天的相对准确，根本做不到全知全能的推演。 如果模拟系统必须拥有与真实宇宙等量的复杂度，那么创造模拟的世界本身就必须同样复杂甚至更庞大，这就引发了物理实现的质疑。此外，现代数字计算机完全依赖二进制代码（0 与 1、0 伏与 5 伏的高低电位差），这意味着在计算机中，世界是彻底被离散化的，空间由极微小的“体素”（voxels，即三维像素）拼凑而成。然而现实世界中的物理量（例如从 0 度到 1 度乃至 100 度的温度变化）是真正连续平滑的。如果真实世界运行在计算机上，由于不可能拥有无限算力来处理无穷无尽的小数位数，当我们将测量放大到极其微观的极端尺度时，理应观测到物理量出现不连贯的“微小跃迁”或像素化边界。物理学家曾试图通过观测来自极远古宇宙深处的“伽马射线暴”（Gamma-ray bursts）来检验时空是否具有被模拟的离散痕迹，但至今为止，观测表明物理法则在最远古的时刻依然连续平滑，“没有任何证据表明我们身处模拟之中”。 - **繁复（Complicated）vs 不可化简的复杂（Complex）**：空客 A320 可以照着配方拼装，但地球天气系统的混沌动力学要求等体量的物理实体才能完全复制。 - **离散的数字化 vs 连续的物理量**：计算机基于二进制和像素/体素（voxels），而真实温度与时空跨度具有数学上的连续性，模拟无限精度的连续需要无限算力。 - **伽马射线暴与观测事实**：对宇宙深处高能伽马射线暴的实际天体物理检测并未发现模拟所需的空间离散漏洞，当前支持模拟论的物理证据为 0。 --- ### [01:02:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3751s) 外星生命之谜：可能性不等于概率与 $10^{24}$ 颗行星 当话题转到“外星人是否存在”时，布莱恩先用天体物理学家的黑色幽默活跃了气氛，开玩笑称外星人其实是“匈牙利人”，或者说是聚集在天王星周围的“克林贡人”（Klingons around Uranus），甚至当场送给史蒂芬一块名为“天王星肥皂”（Uranus Soap）的恶搞礼物，双关调侃“要时刻把天王星/你的肛门洗干净”。然而玩笑归玩笑，谈到严肃的科学事实时，布莱恩的神情严谨起来：迄今为止，人类没有任何确凿证据证明地外生命的存在。 布莱恩提出了一个核心的逻辑批判：“可能性并不等于概率”（possibility does not equal probability）。公众和媒体常常被天文数字所震撼——银河系中约有 1000 亿（$10^{11}$）颗恒星，人类已观测到几乎每颗恒星周围平均都有多达 10 颗行星围绕运转，而在可观测宇宙中，又存在着上千亿个星系；将它们相乘，整个可观测宇宙中的行星总数高达 1 后面跟 24 个零（即 $10^{24}$ 颗行星）。很多人便武断得出结论：既然有这么多行星，宇宙中就一定挤满了生命。但在布莱恩看来，从死寂的无机化学环境跃迁到能够自我复制的生命，中间横亘着人类至今无法理解的无数道极端概率屏障，更不用说进化成能够制造复杂科技文明的智慧生物了。针对前五角大楼官员路易斯·埃利松多（Lou Elizondo）在播客中分享的 UFO/UAP 爆料，布莱恩指出那些都是具有争议的政界与个人见闻叙述，完全无法提供经得起检验的物理证据；在科学层面，地外生命存在的硬证据依旧是扎扎实实的“0.00%”。 - **行星总数**：银河系拥有约 1000 亿颗恒星，几乎每颗都拥有多颗行星伴随；可观测宇宙中有 1000 亿个星系，可观测宇宙内的行星总量约为 $10^{24}$ 颗。 - **逻辑谬误**：庞大的行星数量仅代表数学上的舞台极其广阔，但不能证明非生命物质转化为生命的概率大于零。 - **关于 UFO 与军方传闻的定性**：类似 Lou Elizondo 提及的官方目击事件属于非科学的轶事叙述，缺少对宇宙基础物理特性的客观支撑。 --- ### [01:04:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3846s) 无法跨越的深空距离与生命的真正源头：从化学合成到胚种论 宇宙的浩瀚远远超出了人类肉身所能感知的极限。布莱恩做了一个比例尺比喻：如果将一间演播室比作太阳系，离我们最近的恒星距离就好比远在圣地亚哥。即便是可观测宇宙，其绝大多数区域在极早期甚至还没有来得及合成生命所需的复杂重元素分子。即便我们将目光局限在人类唯一可能探索的银河系内部（在没有曲率引擎或类似《星际穿越》中的虫洞技术的前提下），人类最先进的技术在深空尺度面前也犹如蜗牛爬行。 为了说明星际旅行的绝望差距，布莱恩详细列举了旅行者号的数据。1977 年发射的人类最远深空探测器在太空中疾驰了近半个世纪，目前仅飞出了大约“1个光天”（以每秒 186,000 英里或 300,000 公里的光速飞行一天的距离）。然而，距离太阳系最近的恒星系统（约 4 光年之外）距离我们足足是这趟 50 年旅程的 1,200 倍。换言之，以目前人类的最快航天速度，探测器即便直奔最近的恒星，也需要数十万年（数万甚至上百万个千禧年）才能抵达，而那颗恒星是否有宜居行星甚至都无法确认。 除了物理距离的鸿沟，生命自身的起源也是一团迷雾。现代科学目前完全不清楚最基本的无机元素（氢、氦、氧）究竟是通过何种具体的合成有机化学路径，跨越为具有新陈代谢与遗传能力的活细胞。哪怕今天在火星地表只发现了一具恐龙化石，或者仅仅是一颗微小的活体细菌，都将是改写人类历史的颠覆性发现。为了解释生命诞生的低概率难题，部分科学家提出了“胚种论”（Panspermia）——巧合的是，这一理论的提出者正是当年以讽刺口吻命名了“大爆炸理论”的天体物理学家弗雷德·霍伊尔（Fred Hoyle）。胚种论假定生命并不需要在每颗行星上从零独立演化，而是可能在某处极端罕见的巧合中诞生了一次，随后附着在彗星与陨石的岩石缝隙中穿梭于深空，撞击地球或其他行星播下生机。 - **人类发射的最远航天器**：1977 年发射的探测器（旅行者号）耗时约 50 年仅飞离地球 1 个光天。 - **星际尺度的天文级鸿沟**：光速为 186,000 英里/秒（约 300,000 公里/秒）；距离我们最近的恒星相隔约 4 光年，距离是旅行者号当前航程的 1,200 倍以上，常规航天技术抵达需花费数十万年。 - **生命起源的未知**：氢、氦、氧如何跨越成第一个具备生命特征的单细胞，在合成有机化学领域仍是巨大未解之谜。 - **胚种论（Panspermia）假说**：由 Fred Hoyle 提出，认为生命只需在某地起源一次，便可通过陨石和彗星在行星之间传播繁衍。 ### [01:06:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4015s) 来自火星的礼物与行星间的物质交换 Brian Keating 拿出一件极其珍贵的离别礼物赠予主持人 Stephen Bartlett——一块重 1.524 克的真实火星陨石切片。Keating 开玩笑说这是“连埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）都会为之眼红、至今也没拥有的东西”，颜色略带火星标志性的微红。这块陨石在非洲被发现，经受过进入大气层的剧烈摩擦。Keating 解释了它的来历：在数百万甚至数十亿年前，一颗小行星或大型流星撞击了火星表面，将地表岩石碎片炸飞入太空；这些碎片在太空中环绕太阳和火星轨道运行了漫长岁月，最终与地球轨道相交并坠落在非洲大陆。科学家对其化学成分和分子结构进行检测后，发现其与目前在火星表面作业的着陆巡视器测得的数据完全吻合，百分之百确认来自火星。 这块火星陨石不仅是收藏品，更揭示了生命可能在行星间传播的机制（即胚种论，Panspermia）。Keating 指出，地球同样会遭受巨大撞击，将携带有单细胞阿米巴原虫、甚至更高阶动植物 DNA 的泥土碎块抛向深空，最终可能落在火星上。虽然行星之间完全可能发生物质与遗传密码的交换，但现实是人类至今并未在火星上发现任何存活的生命体。 - 礼物参数：重 1.524 克的火星陨石，具有微红的矿物色泽。 - Keating 每月会在个人网站（briankeating.com）向幸运观众赠送流星与陨石标本。 - 行星撞击溅射机制为生命跨行星散布提供了物理可能性，但目前火星表面仍是一片死寂。 --- ### [01:08:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4126s) 尺度震撼：一张桌子与可观测宇宙 为了具象化宇宙的庞大，主持人 Stephen 询问：如果眼前这张长约 2.5 米的访谈桌代表整个宇宙，地球会有多大？Keating 回答，哪怕这张桌子仅仅代表银河系（跨度约 10 万光年），地球都远远达不到一粒沙子的大小；实际上，从太阳一直延伸到海王星轨道的“整个太阳系”，在桌面上也不过是半粒沙子。目前太阳系共有 8 颗行星（冥王星已被降级为矮行星），太阳系大约位于银河系圆盘中心到边缘三分之一的位置。 Keating 进一步对比了人类的航天成就：海王星轨道大约是 4 个光时（光飞行 4 小时的距离），而人类历时近 50 年飞得最远的探测器——旅行者号（Voyager），目前距离地球大约 24 个光时。即便上面搭载着卡尔·萨根（Carl Sagan）主持制作的“旅行者金唱片”（收录了全球各种文化的歌曲、图像、语言、婴儿哭声与笑声），人类的足迹也仅仅触及了太阳系直径的 6 倍左右。而在整个可观测宇宙中，存在着至少 1000 亿个像这样代表星系的“桌子”，每个“桌子”上都拥有千亿粒代表恒星系统的“沙子”。可观测宇宙中的恒星总数，超过了地球上所有大陆全部海滩上的沙粒总和。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Cosmic Scale Comparison accDescr: Diagram contrasting human exploration limits with the scale of the Milky Way and the observable universe. subgraph SolSys["太阳系尺度"] A["太阳系边界 (海王星) ~4 光时"] B["旅行者号当前距离 ~24 光时"] A --> B end subgraph DeskScale["桌面类比 (银河系约 10 万光年)"] C["2.5米访谈桌: 代表银河系"] D["半粒沙子: 整个太阳系范围"] C -.-> D end subgraph UniverseScale["可观测宇宙宏观尺度"] E["1000 亿张桌子 (星系)"] F["宇宙恒星总数 > 地球所有海滩沙粒总和"] E --> F end ``` --- ### [01:11:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4298s) 大小不等于重要性与南极荒原类比 面对如此恐怖的宇宙尺度，Stephen 感叹人类在宇宙中渺小得仿佛完全无足轻重，但同时又极度怀疑：既然有千亿个星系、数万亿的沙粒，怎么可能没有其他外星生命？Keating 随即驳斥了“体积决定重要性”的虚无主义视角。他指出，人体的大小大约是病毒或细菌的 10 万亿到 15 万亿倍，但微小的病毒足以摧毁一个人的生命；木星的直径是地球的 10 倍以上，太阳的体积更是木星的千倍，但没有生命的巨大火球绝不比孕育生命的地球更有价值。更关键的是，在已知的 70 多种灵长类动物中，没有任何物种具备人类这种等级的意识与智慧。 为了反驳“空间大就必然到处都有生命”的概率误区，Keating 引用了自己曾两次前往南极进行 BICEP 望远镜实验的亲身经历。南极洲占地球陆地面积的近 12% 至 13%，拥有水、岩石、碳氢化合物及各种潜在资源，但在这片巨大的土地上，常住人口却接近于零。如果一个观察者仅凭“地球有 80 亿人、南极占地 13%”就推断南极应该有 8 亿人居住，其结论显然与事实南辕北辙。Keating 借此强调：“概率并不等于可能性”（Probability is not determined by possibility），具备生存条件与实际诞生生命之间存在着巨大的鸿沟。 --- ### [01:14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4456s) UAP 现象的物理性质疑与科技认知 针对外界对外星生命来访地球的传闻与狂热，Keating 表达了严谨的怀疑态度。他曾深入采访过顶尖的军方战斗机飞行员、UAP 亲历目击者，也访谈过哈佛大学天体物理学家阿维·勒布（Avi Loeb，后者曾发起项目打捞疑似来自星际空间的残留金属碎片）。Keating 强调，即便面对声称目睹“违背物理定律飞行”的外星飞行物报告，核心问题依然悬而未决：它们究竟依据何种物理机制实现超光速或星际尺度的空间穿越？ 在探讨技术与超自然认知的界限时，Keating 顺带提及了一个文化冷知识：“播客”（Podcast）一词源自苹果的“iPod”，而当年为 iPod 命名的工程师正是从斯坦利·库布里克（Stanley Kubrick）的科幻经典《2001太空漫游》（2001: A Space Odyssey）中的太空分离舱（EVA Pod）汲取的灵感；片中角色使用的通信平板电脑，在当年被视作不可思议的未来科技，如今却成了人人手中的 iPad。Keating 指出，过去若向古人展示美军现役的先进机密装备，也会被视为巫术或魔法；但即便如此，能在浩瀚宇宙间克服不可逾越距离的技术，绝不能仅仅用一句轻描淡写的“它们打破了物理定律”来搪塞。此时 Stephen 提出反问：如果在物理学上无法理解外星科技就判定其不存在，那么此前 Keating 承认“人类根本无法参透造物主（上帝）的属性”这一逻辑，是否也形成了认知上的冲突？讨论随即转向更深层次的科学与哲学交锋。 ### [01:16:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4568s) 科学检验与 UAP 传闻的界限 对话承接上一环节中对不明飞行物（UAP/UFO）与外星科技的探讨。主持人 Stephen 提出，很多人只是单纯选择去相信，就像一百年前的人类看到今天的 iPod 或 iPad 会视若巫术一样，外星文明如果比人类科技领先几百年，其跨越星际的技术在我们看来自然无法理解。 Brian Keating 对此表示认同，但他指出了其中的关键区别：像路易斯·埃利桑多（Luis Elizondo）这样的人物在公开书籍和言论中所作的断言，本质上都是具体的“科学层面的声明”。例如，埃利桑多在书中声称，某些神秘飞行器的内部空间比外部看起来更大、它们能与人类生物体相互作用并导致灼伤，而且所运用的并不是什么人类完全未知的第五种基本力，而是基于广义相对论和时空属性的操控。 Keating 强调，既然这些言论落在了物理学的范畴内，就必须接受已知物理定律的严格检验；而谈及上帝时，大家心知肚明那是超越科学定律可证范围的，因此科学无法证实上帝，但对物理 claims（声明）则绝不能含糊放水。 ### [01:17:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4654s) 我们在宇宙中是孤独的吗？ 当 Stephen 直截了当地询问“宇宙中我们是孤独的概率有多大”时，Brian Keating 给出了出人意料的明确答案：“我认为概率非常高，人类很可能就是孤独的。” 为了直观证明自己的观点，Keating 在演播室现场拿起身边的道具进行演示： 1. **地球仪与月球模型**：他拿出一个地球仪和儿子用 3D 打印制作的月球模型，按实际比例向观众展示两者的大小关系。 2. **早期地球与忒伊亚（Theia）大碰撞**：数十亿年前，无数陨石在重力下凝聚，铁等重元素下沉构成地核，碳、氮、氧等轻元素聚集在外层。随后，一颗火星大小、类似演播室里小沙滩球规模的原行星“忒伊亚（Theia）”猛烈撞击早期地球，爆炸甩出的物质历经数百万年冷凝形成了月球。 3. **潮汐与生命的诞生**：月球距离地球约 25 万英里，其质量与距离恰到好处，每天在地球上产生两次高潮和两次低潮，拉动水层形成透镜状椭球体。正是这种潮汐往复，被科学界认为是促使海洋原始生命走向陆地、完成繁衍与进化的关键机制。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Earth Evolution Sequence accDescr: Three critical cosmic bombardments in chronological order that allowed technological human life to emerge. subgraph CriticalEvents["决定地球演化的三次关键天体事件"] A["1. 忒伊亚巨型碰撞<br/>形成月球与地月系统"] --> B["2. 冰冻彗星长周期轰炸<br/>带来水分形成原始海洋"] B --> C["3. 希克苏鲁伯小行星撞击<br/>消灭恐龙，为哺乳动物让路"] end C --> D["人类与现代科技文明诞生"] ``` ### [01:20:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4808s) 连环小概率奇迹与时间序列的严苛性 紧接着，Brian Keating 指出仅有月球远远不够，人类的出现依赖一连串按严苛时间顺序发生的致命轰炸： * **彗星送水**：如同巨型冰山的彗星在数百万年间持续轰击地球，带来地表矿物质与水资源，最终形成了覆盖地球表面约 70% 的海洋。 * **恐龙灭绝小行星**：约 6500 万年前，一颗直径数英里（在演示中相当于 1 英寸大小的陨石道具）的彗星/小行星以约每小时 25 万英里的极高速度撞击墨西哥尤卡坦半岛，激起的遮天尘埃造成全球核冬天效应，切断植物光合作用，灭绝了统治地球的恐龙。这一浩劫为最初类似啮齿小鼠的原始哺乳动物腾出了演化空间，才最终演化出鲸鱼、蝙蝠以及人类。 Keating 强调，这三次碰撞不仅本身极其罕见，更致命的是**时间顺序绝对不能错乱**： * 如果灭绝小行星先来，当时根本没有恐龙可杀； * 如果彗星先送来海洋，接着发生形成月球的忒伊亚大碰撞，巨大的撞击热量会彻底将所有地表海洋全部蒸干； * 假如恐龙当时拥有防卫太空计划用激光偏转了陨石，哺乳动物就永远无法抬头。 除了这三大事件，地球还得益于两大天然“保镖”： * **木星（Jupiter）**：作为太阳系的巨大引力护盾，阻挡并清除了绝大多数朝内太阳系飞来的毁灭性天体。 * **月球（Moon）**：其表面密密麻麻的巨型陨石坑见证了它替地球承受的致命撞击，其中不少撞击坑的体量足以引发地球生命大灭绝。 Keating 做了一个数学概率推演：假设上述每一个保护条件或演化关口出现的概率仅为万分之一（$1/10^4$），仅仅将这五六个关键条件相乘，得到的概率分母就已经远远超过了整个可观测宇宙中的行星总数。而实际演化中，从单细胞的化学起源到复杂意识与现代科技，横亘着成千上万个严苛节点。因此他推断，人类在宇宙中大概率是绝无仅有的孤独存在；而这种罕见性或许具有深刻的哲学意义——提醒人类必须对地球环境怀揣敬畏，倍加珍惜这来之不易的生命奇迹。 - **地月系统比例与距离**：月球与地球的尺寸比在现场模型中清晰呈现，地月距离约为 250,000 英里（约 40 万公里）。 - **恐龙灭绝撞击速度**：小行星撞击速度约为每小时 250,000 英里，落点位于墨西哥尤卡坦半岛。 - **概率与行星数量对比**：即便只挑选 6 个万分之一概率的宇宙巧合相乘（$10^{-24}$），其稀有程度也已压倒宇宙已知的行星总量。 ### [01:24:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5060s) 播客赞助：创业与招聘的感悟 节目在此进入赞助商广告环节。Stephen 借由赞助伙伴 LinkedIn 分享了自己作为企业主与创业者的心态演变，坦言随着个人经历的成熟，他越来越深刻地体会到：在建立和发展一家公司的过程中，最核心、最决定胜负的事情始终是“人才招聘”。 ### [01:24:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5083s) 赞助支持：企业招募与网络安全隐私 斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）首先切入中场赞助环节。他指出，“公司”（company）一词的真正内核是“一群人”（group of people），寻找并凝聚优秀人才本应是每位创业者最核心的职责，但令人诧异的是许多人对此并不重视。斯蒂芬透露自己团队有约 80% 的员工都是通过 LinkedIn 招聘而来，因为全球极少有其他平台能提供如此多元且具备详实背景档案的候选人库。随后，他针对听众介绍了在专属链接发布免费招聘帖的优惠福利。 紧接着，斯蒂芬探讨了一组反差强烈的数据：高达 85% 的互联网用户听说过 VPN，但仅有 55% 的人真正理解它的运作机制。他解释道，VPN 能改变用户的线上虚拟定位，从而突破地域限制访问原本无法浏览的内容或流媒体。在实际生活中，他使用节目赞助商 NordVPN 无论身在世界何处都能流畅观看曼彻斯特联队（Manchester United）的足球比赛；而其团队成员英迪（Indie）在订购回新西兰老家的机票时，也会利用虚拟定位避开动态定价，从而买到更划算的机票。 - LinkedIn 招聘优势：斯蒂芬团队约 80% 成员由该平台招募，提供覆盖广泛的人才信息与履历数据。 - VPN 认知差异：85% 的网民听说过该工具，但只有约半数（55%）真正掌握其核心功能。 - 动态定价与跨区应用：NordVPN 支持单账号跨 10 台设备同时运行，具备全球最快的连接速率与 30 天无条件退款保障。 --- ### [01:26:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5174s) 星座与占星学：星体位置真的能决定命运吗？ 斯蒂芬向布赖恩·基廷（Brian Keating）抛出了一个在大众文化中极具争议的话题：从宇宙学与天体物理学的严肃研究角度来看，天上的星星和星座运势（horoscopes）是否真有可能决定人类的性格走势、恋爱命运甚至投资成败？基廷给出了非常干脆的否定回答。他强调，现代科学完全可以通过随机对照试验（RCT）或双盲测试来进行严密验证，但目前没有任何证据能够支持占星学的预言体系。在物理机制层面，一个人出生那一刻木星的引力拉扯、太阳的微小引力摄动或是地球所处的轨道位置，在实际力学尺度上都极其微弱，根本不可能对个人的神经发育或命运走向产生因果效应。更何况每天全世界有上百万婴儿降生，同分同秒出生的婴儿数以万计，如果星盘有效，这些人的气运与境遇应当高度雷同，但事实并非如此。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 占星学因果错觉与科学解释对比 accDescr: 对比占星学所声称的天体引力决定论与统计学上的季节性出生相关性 subgraph Astrology["占星学假设（伪因果）"] A["出生瞬间天体位置<br/>（如木星/太阳方位）"] -->|"假设存在超自然力"| B["决定个人性格、爱情<br/>及财务走向"] end subgraph Science["科学实证视角（相关性而非因果）"] C["季节与节日周期<br/>（如年底假期受孕）"] --> D["出生日期聚集<br/>（如9月9日处女座）"] E["南北半球孕期气候差异<br/>（母体生理体验不同）"] --> F["性格与环境表观差异<br/>而非天体引力影响"] end ``` 基廷深入剖析了人们常犯的思维谬误——将“相关性”（correlation）与“因果性”（causation）混为一谈。他以自己的生日举例说明：他出生于 9 月 9 日，而这是公历全年里出生率最高的一天。究其根源，9 月初恰好是西方圣诞节和新年假期狂欢后大约九个月的时间节点，由于假期受孕率飙升，才导致这一天出生的处女座格外庞大，但这绝不意味着这群人拥有相同的特质。此外，南北半球的季节完全颠倒，即使同一天出生的两个婴儿，一位母亲是在盛夏酷暑中孕育，另一位母亲则在寒冬腊月里受孕，母体所承受的生理环境大相径庭，孩子表现出的差异本应巨大，然而占星学却刻板地认为同一星盘下的他们性格完全一致。 - 物理检验无效：天体在人出生瞬间施加的重力微弱到可以忽略，无法通过双盲测试与可重复实验验证。 - 人口基数证伪：全球每日新生儿达百万人量级，相同分秒出生的成千上万个体并未出现命运与运气的机械复制。 - 季节与生理机制：出生日期的聚集成因（如年底假期受孕导致 9 月初人口高峰）是社会学现象，南北半球孕期气候差异才是塑造早期生理差异的环境变量。 --- ### [01:28:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5314s) 占星与宗教的本质：人类在未知宇宙中对指引的渴望 斯蒂芬补充指出，许多狂热迷恋星座与占星的人往往持有极其笃定的态度，甚至宣称“我信占星的证据并不比你信科学或宗教少”。在现实中，不少人完全根据星盘来构建生活的意义感、道德指南甚至重大决策，这在功能上已经演变成一种宗教替代品。基廷认同占星学在历史上脱胎于早期宗教，尽管现代人不再直接顶礼膜拜天上的星座图腾，但其寻求人生向导和伦理罗盘的核心诉求与传统信徒如出一辙。基廷感叹道，人类生活在一个令人生畏的宏大宇宙中，即便是最聪明的诺贝尔奖得主和最深邃的思想家也无法彻底参透宇宙的本质，面对未知的空虚与恐惧，人们天生具有心智理论（theory of mind）与自我意识，极度渴望从外部获取确定的答案和情感寄托。 两人的讨论随后延伸至焦虑的代际传递与文明时间观的深层差异。基廷分享了一位心理学家给他的忠告：每位父母在生活中最应当努力的目标，就是“只把自己一半的神经官能症（neurosis）传递给下一代”。如果代代都能削减一半的非理性焦虑、恐惧与心理缺陷，人类物种就会不断向好迭代；反之，若所有人都在无休止的焦虑中停滞不前，历史便毫无进步可言。基廷尖锐地对比了两种世界观的时间轴： - **扁平循环时间观（Flat Circle）**：许多占星学与古老宿命论将时间视作一个不断重复的圆圈，认为人们每逢生日只是在简单复刻祖先走过的命理轨迹，这种观念令人沮丧，扼杀了探索未知的创新动力； - **螺旋上升时间观（Spiral）**：现代西方文明与科学将时间视作不断向前延展的螺旋，它鼓励人类向星空拓荒、攻克疾病、探索物理基本力，追求更广阔的知识与繁荣。 --- ### [01:30:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5450s) 人生的终极意义：创造那些被剥夺便会摧毁你的深刻联结 当斯蒂芬问及基廷心中“人生的意义到底是什么”时，基廷给出了一个饱含力量与深情的定义。在他看来，人生的真谛就在于**“尽可能去做那些一旦从生命中被夺走、就会让你整个人彻底崩溃毁灭的事”**（"to do as many things that if taken away from you would be devastating to you"）。一个人所做的事情必须具备如此重大的份量，以至于若未曾拥有或彻底失去它，灵魂的底色都会被连根拔起。对于基廷而言，这一核心正是他的孩子们——那是不可割舍的深厚纽带与对未来的无限憧憬。 访谈在此刻显露出了罕见的脆弱与沉重。基廷坦言自己平时绝不是个轻易落泪的人，但自 2023 年 10 月 7 日以色列遭遇袭击事件以来，他在当地的许多亲友深受创伤，过去这一年里他流下了人生中最多的眼泪。然而在悲痛中审视这些泪水与剧痛时，他深刻意识到：自己绝不会为了逃避痛苦，而宁愿放弃生命中曾经拥有这些挚爱的欣喜。基廷表示，尽管自己还在认真调理身体、控制饮食，希望尽可能长久地活下去，但他早已坦然面对生死，因为他做成了儿时不敢奢望的成就，娶到了此生挚爱，并将珍贵的灵魂带到了这个世界。 提到斯蒂芬此前与调查记者安妮·雅各布森（Annie Jacobsen，关于核战争情景探讨）录制的节目时，基廷坦言那一期让人不寒而栗，连斯蒂芬在镜头前都显得心惊肉跳。尽管人类面临不可预测的生存威胁，甚至可能在广袤宇宙中孑然一身，但基廷认为，正是这种无法预测的短暂性与孤独感，才赋予了我们在当下建立深刻联结的无上意义——在还能拥抱彼此的时候全力以赴地去爱与付出。 --- ### [01:33:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5606s) 执念的转变：从渴望拿下诺贝尔奖到向内审视自我 斯蒂芬紧接着追问了一个极为切中要害的问题：“那么在你拥有孩子之前，你当时人生的意义又是什么？”基廷毫不掩饰地直言：“那非常简单，我当时唯一的执念就是想要赢得诺贝尔奖（Nobel Prize）。” 基廷解释了这一野心背后隐秘而深刻的心理动机。他的父亲本身就是一位极具威望的顶尖科学家，一生斩获无数荣誉，但唯独从未获得过诺贝尔奖。年轻时的基廷心中憋着一股强烈的胜负欲，渴望在学术成就上超越父亲、向父亲证明自己。然而随着父亲离世，他忽然意识到在这个世界上已经没有任何人需要他去刻意迎合或证明自己的价值。人活到最后，真正该取悦与打动的只有自己。如今的他已经彻底释怀：未来如果某一天瑞典皇家科学院真的决定将诺奖颁给他和那群卓越的科研团队，那固然值得欣然受之，但这早已不再是他生命的终极支柱。 ### [01:33:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5638s) 诺贝尔奖光环与科学巨匠们的“冒名顶替综合征” 布莱恩·基廷（Brian Keating）坦言，对于现在的他而言，获得诺贝尔奖已经不再具备年轻时所赋予的那种神圣意义。在他二十岁出头时，诺贝尔奖就像神明与偶像一样高不可攀——一旦摘得桂冠，便如同跻身科学界的无上皇室，其象征意义远超奥斯卡小金人或奥运金牌；毕竟在整个物理学史上，仅有大约两百余人获此殊荣。然而，当真正与这些诺奖得主深入交流后，他才看清了光环背后的真实人性。基廷提到，2017年诺贝尔物理学奖得主巴里·巴里什（Barry Barish）曾为他的第二本书《进入不可能》（Into the Impossible）作序。基廷习惯在播客结尾向嘉宾抛出一个核心问题：“如果你能回到过去见到20岁的自己，你会对他说什么，好让他拥有探索不可能的勇气？”巴里什的回答竟是：“别再受冒名顶替综合征（Impostor Syndrome）折磨了。” 基廷当时十分吃惊，反问巴里什如今已是诺奖得主，为何还会有这种感觉。巴里什随即讲述了自己在斯德哥尔摩领奖的真实经历：获奖者身着最高规格的白领结（White Tie）大礼服，会见瑞典国王，享用国宴，领取纯金奖章以及上百万美元的奖金。为了确认奖项交接，主办方会要求获奖者在一本巨大的名册上亲笔签名。当巴里什签下自己的名字后，他忍不住往前翻看前几页的签名：理查德·费曼（Richard Feynman）、居里夫人（Marie Curie）、阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦（Albert Einstein）……巴里什顿时感到无地自容：“我觉得自己根本不配与爱因斯坦生活在同一个宇宙里，更别提写在同一本书上了，他们怎么能把同样的奖颁给我呢？” 基廷笑着安慰巴里什，告诉他一个更惊人的历史事实：爱因斯坦本人同样深受冒名顶替综合征的困扰。爱因斯坦心目中的至高偶像是艾萨克·牛顿（Isaac Newton），他曾评价牛顿对科学和西方文明的贡献超越了以往及后世的任何人。然而，牛顿自己也未能逃脱这种心理——牛顿虽然发明了微积分、发现了万有引力定律与光学定律、制造了反射望远镜，却在精神偶像耶稣基督面前感到彻底的自惭形秽。牛顿深知自己无法像耶稣那样在水面上行走或行神迹喂饱万人，但他选择在世俗欲望上发起极端挑战，效仿耶稣终生保持童贞而死。基廷借此总结道，冒名顶替综合征在伟大人物身上极为普遍，人们根本没必要去盲目神化某尊金色的偶像，与其追逐那些虚幻的头衔，他宁愿在安息日（Shabbat）多花时间陪伴家人。 - 物理学诺贝尔奖百年来仅有约200位科学家斩获，被科学界视为接近神坛的无上荣誉。 - 巴里·巴里什在斯德哥尔摩领奖签署名册时，看到费曼、居里夫人与爱因斯坦的名字，内心涌起强烈的配不上感。 - 冒名顶替的链条世代相传：巴里什仰视爱因斯坦，爱因斯坦仰视牛顿，而牛顿则因仰视耶稣基督而选择终身禁欲。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 科学巨匠之间的偶像崇拜链条 accDescr: 展示从巴里什到爱因斯坦、牛顿直至耶稣基督的仰望与冒名顶替心理传导路径 subgraph 巨匠的心路历程 A["巴里·巴里什 (Barry Barish)<br>2017年诺贝尔物理学奖"] -->|"深感不配比肩"| B["阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦 (Albert Einstein)"] B -->|"认为其贡献无人能及"| C["艾萨克·牛顿 (Isaac Newton)"] C -->|"自认卑微，效仿其终身独身"| D["耶稣基督 (Jesus Christ)"] end ``` --- ### [01:37:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5854s) 跨越世代的介质：播客与永恒声音的沉淀 史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）对这番话深有共鸣。他表示自己每天都在经历冒名顶替综合征——当被介绍为知名采访者或播客主持人时，他常觉得不可思议。他从未接受过专业科班训练，最初只是坐在自家厨房里拉开架势向人们提问，没想到节目越做越大，外界纷纷称赞他天赋异禀，但他至今仍在思索这种“出色”究竟意味着什么，毕竟乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）或安德鲁·休伯曼（Andrew Huberman）等头部同行都有着截然不同的风格。基廷对此评价道，史蒂芬拥有他人无法复制的独特视角，甚至连基廷自己播客标志性的高能量开场，也是借鉴了史蒂芬节目的剪辑艺术，将枯燥的化学通路或热力学系统包装得极具吸引力。 基廷援引卡尔·萨根（Carl Sagan）对书籍的赞美：书籍是一项奇迹，读者捧读它时，是在与一位早已故去的作者跨越时空与世代展开灵魂对话。如今，播客正是数字时代的这种全新载体。数以百万计的听众通过耳机收听内容，这些声音资产将代代流传，甚至史蒂芬未来的子孙后代都能以无比生动、具象的声音形式感受先辈的思想。基廷提到，现在的选战已然演变成“播客大选”，播客的文化影响力空前巨大。基廷自己运营播客并非为了谋生，而是源自纯粹的激情回馈——小时候他因阅读卡尔·萨根与艾萨克·阿西莫夫（Isaac Asimov）的著作而走上科学之路；2020年疫情爆发时，由于科学家朋友们无法举办新书签售，他便开设线上播客邀请他们做客，甚至请来多位诺奖得主，以此作为对滋养过自己的科学共同体的报恩。 --- ### [01:40:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6056s) 实验精神的本质与名利代价的“动物农庄”寓言 面对这种数字作品将流传千古的宏大命题，史蒂芬提出了创作者的心理困惑：如果时刻意识到自己的作品会影响未来几个世代，是否反而会因为背上沉重的思想包袱而毁掉创作初期的纯粹？基廷认为史蒂芬实际上已经在用科学家的“实验精神”去化解这种压力。科学实验的本质，是对当前哪怕再成功的产品依然抱有一种健康的“不满足感”；优秀的创作者总想探寻哪些改动奏效、哪些不奏效。正如基廷常对学生说的那样，“世界上根本没有失败的实验”，每一次未达预期的尝试都会带来新认知，使人无限逼近真理。 随后，基廷将话锋转向成名带来的阴暗面，援引乔治·奥威尔《动物农庄》中的寓言向史蒂芬发问：书中驴子本杰明（Benjamin）与一头猪交谈，猪羡慕本杰明拥有又长又浓密的尾巴可以驱赶苍蝇，而自己只有一条毫无用处的小卷尾；驴子却冷冷地回应：“我宁可世界上没有苍蝇，这样我也就不需要这条尾巴了。”基廷借此询问史蒂芬，面对如今巨大的名望、公众注意力以及随之而来的隐私丧失与生活侵扰，是否会愿意放弃这一切去换回平凡生活？史蒂芬坦言，这个问题他每周、每月都在反复拷问自己，但他发现名声的益处与代价就像被胶水紧紧黏在一起的双面刃，无法轻易剥离。正如特雷弗·诺亚（Trevor Noah）曾提醒他的那样，当名气攀升到某个临界点之后，你便再也无法按下逆转人生的倒车键。 ### [01:42:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6156s) 无法停下的创造欲与人生的真正使命 斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）与布莱恩·基廷（Brian Keating）探讨了关于退隐与内心平静的内心拉扯。斯蒂芬坦言，自己曾多次设想过一个极端场景：注销这档播客、退出商业投资真人秀节目《龙穴》（Dragons' Den）、删除所有社交媒体账号，直接搬到巴厘岛去生活。他在脑海中反复盘算：如果自己口口声声说在人生的这个阶段追求的是内心的宁静与祥和，那为什么还要承担如此繁重的工作？在巴厘岛他有足够的经济实力安然度过余生，彻底放松。然而，他意识到这种平静注定是暂时的——一旦闲下来，他又会忍不住开始写作；接着又会想把自己写的东西拍成视频分享出来；随后可能又去画画、继续搞创作；只要创作出来的作品足够优秀，他就渴望展示并分享给他人，结果又一步步回到了原点。 基廷对这种循环深有共鸣，并指出这正是斯蒂芬的宿命与使命所在。基廷借用自身举例说明：他没有能成为奥林匹克运动员的体魄，但他拥有敏锐的头脑与无限的好奇心，人就应当深耕自己所擅长的事业。在指导学生时，基廷常常思考是该教他们去弥补短板，还是引导他们把优势发挥到极致。他坚信进步本身就能带来巨大的正反馈，就像减肥时减掉一磅会让人欣喜，而哪怕只长了一盎司都会让人沮丧。基廷引用弗洛伊德的名言指出，人生本质上只有两件事最为核心——“工作与爱”（work and love）。只要把这两件事做好，偶尔去巴厘岛度个假享受一阵子，充完电后依然要重新回到属于自己的战场。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 创作者的循环假说 accDescr: 展现从退隐生活重返创作使命的闭环逻辑 subgraph S1["假想退隐"] A["删除社交媒体/退出节目"] --> B["移居巴厘岛彻底放松"] end subgraph S2["冲动复苏"] B --> C["难以抑制的表达欲与写作"] C --> D["重新制作视频、绘画创作"] end subgraph S3["回归本源"] D --> E["分享优质产出并获得反馈"] E --> F["重归工作与使命: 工作与爱"] end ``` ### [01:44:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6248s) 最后的嘉宾提问：如果世界还剩十分钟 按照《CEO日记》的收尾传统，前一位嘉宾在不知道下一位嘉宾是谁的情况下留下了一个问题。留给基廷的问题是：“如果你突然得知世界将在10分钟后彻底毁灭，你会选择联系谁？又会和他们说些什么？”基廷听到后先是开玩笑说，这问题虽然可怕但答案其实很简单：他第一反应或许是“打电话给NASA的朋友，让他们把太空巨型激光调转方向拯救地球”，但随后他认真作答，唯一的选择就是给自己的妻子打电话。 基廷深情地回忆起两人相遇的离奇巧合与命运安排。当他当年被斯坦福大学解雇时，他的妻子其实正巧在那所学校读本科；两人相差八岁半，当时近在咫尺——相距甚至不足一百英尺——却完全互不相识。基廷表示，被斯坦福开除在当时看来是天大的打击，但事后证明却是降临在他身上最美好的转机： - 斯坦福的解雇迫使他找到了新的工作，进而促成了BICEP实验项目； - BICEP实验不仅带他前往南极科考、将他推向诺贝尔奖角逐的风口浪尖，还促使他前往加州圣地亚哥，而圣地亚哥恰好是他妻子的故乡； - 只有离开大机构、不再甘心做别人的雇员，而是成为“自己世界的CEO”、创立属于自己的品牌和实验室，他才得以在圣地亚哥与妻子相遇相爱，并拥有了无比珍视的孩子们。 谈到在这生死攸关的最后十分钟会说些什么，基廷表示他会和妻子一起回忆彼此相遇的奇迹，细数两人共同带到这个世界上的美好印记，在欢笑与泪水中相拥告别。 ### [01:45:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6354s) 科学传播的罕见价值与斯蒂芬的致谢 斯蒂芬向基廷表达了由衷的敬佩与感谢，并呼吁观众关注基廷的主持播客《Into The Impossible》及其著作《Losing The Nobel Prize》，还可以访问其网站参与太空陨石碎片的抽奖活动。斯蒂芬特别感谢了基廷赠送给他的火星岩石切片，并打趣道：“天王星味道的肥皂你可以留着，但这块火星碎片我绝对要收下。” 斯蒂芬强调，基廷所从事的研究工作具有非凡的启迪意义，科学探索的终极价值往往不在于立竿见影地改变日常生活，而在于探索过程本身所赋予人类的美感、喜悦与深远意义。斯蒂芬坦言自己一辈子都不会去建造望远镜，也不会奔赴南极将仪器对准天空，但基廷的工作彻底拓宽了大众的认知边界，为创业者和创作者激发了无限的可能性。斯蒂芬盛赞基廷拥有当代极为罕见的复合能力：这个世界上聪明的人很多，但既具备极其深厚的专业科学造诣，又能像尼尔·德格拉斯·泰森（Neil deGrasse Tyson）那样极具感染力、善于公众沟通的人屈指可数。这种组合就像当年宇宙彗星以特定角度撞击地球并孕育出月球一样稀有而珍贵。基廷对此表达了诚挚的感谢，表示能来到节目交流深感荣幸。 ### [01:48:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6493s) 1%习惯的力量：《CEO日记》的微习惯哲学 在节目尾声，斯蒂芬分享了一段极具个人色彩的人生洞察与产品寄语。他反驳了自己曾听过的最糟糕建议——“别为小事抓狂/不拘小节”（don't sweat the small stuff）。恰恰相反，斯蒂芬始终坚信“必须对细节较真”： - 那些容易做到的小事，往往也极其容易被忽视； - 省下一美元很容易，但不去省同样很容易； - 每天刷牙很容易，但不去刷也很容易； - 每天做出1%的微小改进很容易，但放弃改进同样轻而易举。 斯蒂芬指出，真正拉开人生差距的绝非大刀阔斧的突击转变或所谓的速成捷径，而是持续微调所产生的复利效应。历经两年的打磨，团队推出了实体《1%日记》（1% Diary），内部包含了精心设计的视觉排版、灵感引导与互动模块，旨在帮助人们明确并坚持那些能带来深远蜕变的“1%微习惯”，限量发行供全球追求精进的受众使用。 ## Notable quotes > [20:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1223s) 站在马路正中央的人，两头的车流都会撞到他 — Brian Keating > [32:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=1928s) 我认为，如果神真的存在，祂一定具备‘常识’（common sense）。 — Brian Keating > [41:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=2478s) 我真的不知道，但我知道的是，你会因此改变，你会真正听见自己内心的声音。 — Brian Keating > [59:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3571s) 世界上没有任何证据表明我们身处模拟之中 — Brian Keating > [01:02:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=3751s) 可能性并不等于概率 — Brian Keating > [01:17:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=4654s) 我认为概率非常高，人类很可能就是孤独的。 — Brian Keating > [01:30:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5450s) 尽可能去做那些一旦从生命中被夺走、就会让你整个人彻底崩溃毁灭的事 — Brian Keating > [01:33:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=5638s) 别再受冒名顶替综合征（Impostor Syndrome）折磨了。 — Barry Barish > [01:40:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6056s) 世界上根本没有失败的实验 — Brian Keating > [01:40:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6056s) 我宁可世界上没有苍蝇，这样我也就不需要这条尾巴了。 — Benjamin > [01:42:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI&t=6156s) 工作与爱 — Sigmund Freud ## Mentioned Brian Keating, Steven Bartlett, Galileo Galilei, Elon Musk, Edwin Hubble, Carl Sagan, Jim Simons, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Nick Bostrom, Andrew Huberman, Barry Barish, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Marie Curie, Richard Feynman, Fred Hoyle, Avi Loeb, Luis Elizondo, Annie Jacobsen, Jocko Willink, Trevor Noah, Joe Rogan, Isaac Asimov, Sigmund Freud, BICEP2, Simons Observatory, The Diary Of A CEO, Into the Impossible, Losing The Nobel Prize, Apple Vision Pro, Voyager, LinkedIn, NordVPN, 1% Diary, Dragons' Den, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Interstellar, The Truman Show, Animal Farm ## Video description Professor Brian Keating is a cosmologist and experimental physicist at the University of California San Diego. He is the host of the ‘Into The Impossible’ podcast and author of the books, ‘Losing The Nobel Prize’ and ‘Into The Impossible: Think Like A Nobel Prize Winner’. 00:00 Intro 00:02:04 What Mission Are You On? 00:02:57 Most Controversial Questions You’ve Set Out To Answer 00:05:33 How Does God Tie Into The Creation Of The Universe Through A Scientific Lens? 00:08:15 $200 Million Dollar Project: Insights And Updates 00:11:34 Meteor And The 4-Billion-Year-Old Commitment 00:15:27 Capturing The Origin Of The Universe 00:19:03 What Do You Suspect Is The Origin Of The Universe? 00:21:35 What Is The Most Compelling Evidence Of A God? 00:30:41 Practices To Move Away From Atheism 00:38:57 Are We Searching For The Wrong Thing When It Comes To God? 00:41:19 If I Pray To This God, Will They Hear Me? 00:49:30 How Would Your Life Change If It Were Proven God Wasn't Real? 00:53:37 What Is The Simulation Theory? 01:02:31 Do Aliens Exist? 01:17:34 What Is The Probability That We’re Alone In The Universe? 01:24:20 Ads Segment 01:26:14 Star Signs And Horoscopes: What Do They Really Mean? 01:28:34 How Is Astrology Different From Religion? 01:30:50 What Is The Meaning Of Life? 01:33:26 What Was The Meaning Of Your Life Before Having Kids? 01:35:02 Why Do The Greats Often Feel Like Imposters? 01:40:56 The Importance Of Always Experimenting 01:41:52 Would You Trade Fame And Privacy For Something Else? 01:44:08 The Last Guest's Question The 1% Diary is live - and it won’t be around for long, so act fast! https://bit.ly/1-Diary-YT-ad-reads Follow Brian: Instagram - https://bit.ly/4157xnt Twitter - https://bit.ly/4eSKmjv YouTube - https://bit.ly/4fQ9k4d Podcast - https://bit.ly/3ZqRD5s You can purchase Brian’s book, ‘Losing The Nobel Prize’, here: https://amzn.to/4fOPR3M Get access to exclusive Diary of a CEO content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGq-a57w-aPwyi3pW7XLiHw/join Sponsors: Linkedin Jobs - https://www.linkedin.com/doac NordVPN - https://NORDVPN.COM/DOAC [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIs5X56JMI)

[20:23] Brian Keating: 站在马路正中央的人，两头的车流都会撞到他 [32:08] Brian Keating: 我认为，如果神真的存在，祂一定具备‘常识’（common sense）。 [41:18] Brian Keating: 我真的不知道，但我知道的是，你会因此改变，你会真正听见自己内心的声音。 [59:31] Brian Keating: 世界上没有任何证据表明我们身处模拟之中 [62:31] Brian Keating: 可能性并不等于概率 [77:34] Brian Keating: 我认为概率非常高，人类很可能就是孤独的。 [90:50] Brian Keating: 尽可能去做那些一旦从生命中被夺走、就会让你整个人彻底崩溃毁灭的事 [93:58] Barry Barish: 别再受冒名顶替综合征（Impostor Syndrome）折磨了。 [100:56] Brian Keating: 世界上根本没有失败的实验 [100:56] Benjamin: 我宁可世界上没有苍蝇，这样我也就不需要这条尾巴了。 [102:36] Sigmund Freud: 工作与爱

[1:08] Brian Keating: What we saw was dust, and we were crushed [4:37] Brian Keating: I want to know what happened on the Tuesday before the Big Bang. [4:37] Brian Keating: I don't believe in gravity... I have evidence for it. [19:03] Brian Keating: He who stands in the middle of the road gets hit by both sides of the traffic. [33:23] Stephen Bartlett: I basically concluded God would have common sense... as long as I live a good life and I'm not murdering people and I'm not mean to people... any God that I would want to support anyway would let me in. [33:23] Brian Keating: If you knew God exists, you would behave very radically differently, right? [35:27] Brian Keating: The word Israel, which is the central country of Judaic faith, means fight with God—it means wrestle with God. [48:03] Brian Keating: Because I'm a behaviorist... I really don't feel like my life would be better to act as if God doesn't exist... The benefits to my life are so substantive that I would not change my behavior. [53:37] Brian Keating: Compute is getting so phenomenally powerful in just our recent time Horizon... compute will be effectively free and it'll be infinite, it'll be completely democratized... almost too cheap to measure. [62:31] Brian Keating: Possibility does not equal probability... We're talking a one with 24 zeros after it—that's how many planets there are in the observable universe... People say that means that it's got to be life in the universe. No, it doesn't mean anything. [86:14] Brian Keating: There's no evidence for it in the sense that you can do randomized control trials or double-blind surveys... You have to be careful not to confuse correlation with causation. [90:50] Brian Keating: To me, the meaning of life is to do as many things that if taken away from you would be devastating to you. That which you do should be so consequential that to not have done it or not have it would literally destroy you to your core. [100:56] Brian Keating: Work and love. [104:08] Stephen Bartlett: If you found out that the world was ending in 10 minutes, who would you want to speak to and what would you tell them? [108:09] Stephen Bartlett: small things that are easy to do are also easy not to do

[0:00] this is the shrapnel of an exploded star [0:02] and this is a meteorite schem from over [0:04] 4 billion years ago and this is what [0:08] Elon will kill for Wow and all of this [0:11] is to understand that fundamental [0:13] question people want to know how did we [0:15] get here and how does the question of [0:17] God tie into all of this well for the [0:19] first time in history we might be able [0:21] to answer that question with scientific [0:22] hard data Brian keting is an [0:24] astrophysicist and Professor whose [0:26] groundbreaking research and digestible [0:28] explanations uncover everything we want [0:30] to know about the universe and what lies [0:31] Beyond let me go way back 400 years ago [0:35] a genius named Galileo looked through a [0:37] telescope and he realized that we are [0:39] not the center of the universe and now [0:40] we know the universe is vaster than you [0:42] or I can comprehend how big would Earth [0:44] be on this table small not even a grain [0:46] of sand Even in our galaxy it wouldn't [0:48] be a grain of sand but we still don't [0:50] know how the universe began and so one [0:52] experiment took me to the South Pole to [0:54] the bottom of the planet and we thought [0:55] we discovered the creation of time and [0:57] space itself took me to the brink of a [0:59] novel prize we were on the front page of [1:00] every newspaper but it turned out we [1:02] didn't see that at all what we saw was [1:05] and we were [1:07] [Music] [1:08] crushed I don't get too emotional [1:11] but we had to retract these discoveries [1:15] and it was the most crushing experience [1:17] the scientists can have but you cannot [1:19] stop doing experiments to answer these [1:21] questions now you've launched this $2 [1:22] million project yeah and the data that [1:24] this experiment is seeing is exquisite [1:26] because now we know 100% that [1:30] [Music] [1:32] this has always blown my mind a little [1:34] bit 53% of you that listen to this show [1:37] regularly haven't yet subscribed to the [1:39] show so could I ask you for a favor [1:41] before we start if you like the show and [1:42] you like what we do here and you want to [1:43] support us the free simple way that you [1:45] can do just that is by hitting the [1:46] Subscribe button and my commitment to [1:48] you is if you do that then I'll do [1:50] everything in my power me and my team to [1:52] make sure that this show is better for [1:53] you every single week we'll listen to [1:55] your feedback we'll find the guest that [1:57] you want me to speak to and we'll [1:58] continue to do what we do thank you so [2:03] much Dr Brian [2:07] keing what is the mission that you on I [2:10] think I'm the luckiest man on earth I [2:13] get to get paid not that much but I get [2:15] to get paid to study the questions that [2:18] I was most interested in as a [2:19] 12-year-old pimple face kid in Upstate [2:21] New York which is how did we get here [2:24] and I think it's the question that [2:26] people just want to know it's the only [2:27] question you can't know right what [2:29] happened before you were born you you [2:31] have to rely on other people's word for [2:33] it right you have to ask questions and [2:35] be curious and what is the only event [2:38] that ever happened for which there was [2:40] nobody around to ask and that's the [2:42] origin of our universe and the universe [2:46] contains everything contains life Minds [2:50] Consciousness everything down to you [2:52] know podcasters and and uh and daily [2:55] life what are some of the most sort of [2:57] controversial existential questions that [3:00] you seek to answer with all the research [3:02] that you do so you've talked about this [3:04] before on the show uh the the question [3:06] of of you know finite versus infinite [3:09] games and what we do in science science [3:12] is an infinite game right you can't win [3:14] science but along the way there's many [3:17] many finite games in other words fixed [3:19] competitions for which there's only one [3:22] Victor right I got you know uh offered a [3:25] professorship at UC San Diego that means [3:28] 399 other people didn't get that job I [3:30] got tenure a lot of people don't get [3:32] tenure I got this I got that and then [3:34] eventually I didn't get you know spoiler [3:36] alert my first book's called losing the [3:37] Nobel Prize but there's only you know at [3:39] most three people that can win a Nobel [3:41] Prize every year in my field the the the [3:44] infinite game is comprised of many many [3:46] finite games and the most important [3:48] questions that generate the most [3:50] controversy the most heat the most [3:52] passion have to do with the nature of [3:55] the origin of our universe it's actually [3:58] not a settled science it's it's not [4:00] actually known for a fact whether our [4:02] universe came once existed in a certain [4:05] way eternally in a way I can describe [4:08] went through cycles of creation and [4:10] destruction and or it follows sort of a [4:13] Biblical creation narrative these are [4:15] all kind of open questions in a certain [4:17] sense and because they're not yet [4:19] resolved and because the only way to [4:21] resolve them is through data we cannot [4:24] actually answer these so the human mind [4:26] is in a hybrid it's in a super position [4:30] we kind of have a lot of knowledge but [4:31] we have a lot of questions we have a lot [4:33] of solutions but we have don't have a [4:35] lot of answers we're trying to [4:37] understand that fundamental question and [4:39] I always say I want to know what [4:40] happened on the Tuesday before the Big [4:42] Bang imagine this a day before which [4:46] there was no yesterday you couldn't even [4:48] speak about it if you were there [4:50] obviously nobody was there to witness it [4:52] but even conceptually speaking how does [4:55] time progress if time starts right we [5:00] think about time and time is very [5:02] Mercurial it's very hard to describe and [5:04] Define what time is is time what a watch [5:06] measures is time how your my hair gets [5:10] gray over the years is is time how you [5:12] know we perceive it sitting on a hot [5:14] stove versus being with a pretty [5:16] girlfriend are are those methods unequal [5:20] are they equally valid but at at its [5:23] base layer if the universe began if it [5:25] truly had a singular origin then time [5:28] came into existence at that as well and [5:31] how does the question of God tie into [5:33] all of this and what are the sort of I [5:35] guess the most controversial question is [5:36] is there a god or is there not a God [5:39] right and then a sub question to that [5:41] would be what form does this God take [5:44] are these questions that you SE to [5:46] answer me personally yes my colleagues [5:49] tend to shy away from it it's considered [5:51] somewhat anathema or distasteful for a [5:54] real honest to goodness you know work a [5:56] day scientist to talk about to even [5:58] contemplate the possibility of God and [6:02] for me I I call myself a practicing very [6:06] devout [6:07] agnostic in the sense that uh I I take [6:11] my Judaism in my case I'm I'm a I'm a [6:13] practicing Jew but the question of what [6:17] to take on faith which uh which in which [6:20] in Hebrew by the way the the word amen [6:22] comes from the Hebrew word amuna which [6:24] means faith it means to believe in [6:25] something I always say I don't believe [6:27] in gravity you know if I take this rock [6:29] and I I I don't have to believe in it I [6:31] have evidence for it science the word [6:34] science means knowledge it doesn't mean [6:37] you know uh faith it doesn't mean you [6:39] know religion or theology but for me [6:43] thinking about [6:44] God provides a certain the most um the [6:49] most luxurious or the most delightful [6:51] sort of spice to the research to the [6:54] hard work that I'm doing knowing that [6:56] the the team and I that are trying to [6:58] answer these questions we can possibly [7:00] resolve the question of whether or not [7:01] the universe began as for example it [7:04] begins in the Torah the Old Testament [7:06] the biblical narrative that underpins [7:08] the Judaism and Christianity and and [7:11] Islam as well of you know half the [7:13] world's population what if we could [7:15] substantiate that narrative what if we [7:17] could refute it a good scientist has to [7:19] be open to both so for me personally [7:21] I've always been interested in those [7:23] existential questions I I I I don't put [7:26] myself out there as a you know as a [7:27] rabbi or as some Exemplar of perfect as [7:29] religion but I'm trying I'm trying to [7:32] improve I'm trying to dedicate my life [7:34] to answering questions that others have [7:37] posed and stand on their shoulders to [7:39] hopefully get a closer glimpse of truth [7:41] but it's absolutely 100% in my mind [7:44] inexorably linked the question of a [7:47] Creator and the question of the its [7:50] creation or his creation if you will but [7:53] as I say for the first time in history [7:56] myself my colleagues and I we might be [7:58] able to start to answer that question [7:59] with scientific hard [8:01] data the question of whether there's a [8:03] God or not and which God is most [8:06] accurately represented by the science [8:08] yeah and the creation stories that those [8:10] religions tell themselves or tell the [8:13] world you've raised the 200 million [8:16] project what does that mean and what [8:17] what is the question you're seeking to [8:19] fundamentally answer with that $200 [8:21] million project yeah let me take a step [8:24] back so for 2,000 years most scientists [8:28] people believe the universe was eternal [8:31] had been around [8:32] forever and then not not far from here [8:36] in uh north of north of Hollywood is a [8:38] telescope a 100 inch diameter telescope [8:41] you know five meters across and that [8:43] telescope was used by Edwin Hubble [8:46] Hubble observed that every single Galaxy [8:49] that he could see is moving away from [8:51] the Milky Way [8:53] galaxy so every Galaxy which are [8:55] collections of a 100 billion Suns just [8:57] like our sun is expanding away from us [9:02] how could he see that through a [9:03] telescope uh so he used What's called [9:05] the red shift so the red shift is an [9:08] effect that is related to what Christian [9:10] Doppler discovered called the Doppler [9:12] shift you ever heard an ambulance and [9:14] it's coming towards you and it gets [9:16] higher in frequency it goes [9:18] away that's the Doppler shift the waves [9:21] of sound are piling up their frequency [9:23] is getting short uh getting higher and [9:25] higher the wavelength is getting piled [9:26] up in the direction it's going the the [9:28] the source and it's getting lower in the [9:30] opposite direction the same exact thing [9:33] happens with light instead of getting [9:36] higher pitch in and lower pitch lower [9:38] frequency means redder colors so red is [9:40] a longer wavelength of light than is [9:42] blue light he saw everything is moving [9:44] away from it Us in the Milky Way it was [9:46] a very puzzling Discovery it went [9:48] against 2,500 years of received wisdom [9:52] he observed it with data it was [9:54] incontrovertible every single Galaxy is [9:56] moving away from the Milky Way galaxy [9:58] our galaxy [9:59] he said either you know we didn't put on [10:01] our Cosmic deodorant and no one wants to [10:03] be around us or the universe is getting [10:06] bigger tomorrow it will be bigger than [10:09] it was today the separation between [10:11] galaxies will be larger than it is today [10:15] the implication Stephen if you go back [10:18] another day before today yesterday [10:20] things were closer keep playing that [10:23] movie backwards you come to a point [10:25] perhaps a singularity where all the [10:27] matter all the energy everything that is [10:30] was or ever will be was concentrated [10:32] effectively at a single point that's the [10:34] big bang and so in the Big Bang [10:37] cosmology the universe starts at a [10:39] particular moment time comes into [10:41] existence the elements come into [10:43] existence all the elements you know in [10:45] in water you know instead of hydrogen in [10:47] water rather they all come into [10:49] existence and then over billions of [10:51] years those elements come together over [10:53] the force of gravity they uh will [10:55] eventually fuse two hydrogens together [10:57] to make helium and so forth and you get [10:59] the heavier and heavier elements [11:01] eventually those objects called Stars [11:05] they eventually burn up and blow up in [11:07] what's called a supernova and before [11:10] they blow up they create all sorts of [11:11] other matter that we're made of calcium [11:14] oxygen nitrogen iron and in their death [11:17] throw in their explosive fireworks like [11:20] ending of their lives they give life to [11:23] us because they blast out into the [11:26] cosmos into the Galaxy the material that [11:28] we're made of so literally as Carl Sean [11:30] said we are star stuff and I brought [11:32] some star stuff here today so this is [11:35] these are different byproducts this is [11:37] the shrapnel of an exploded [11:40] star this is mostly made of iron here I [11:42] brought these and I give these away on [11:44] my website I made a special website for [11:47] your listeners briank king.com [11:49] diary this is a meteorite Stephen you [11:52] ever seen a meteor in the atmosphere [11:54] that's a rock like that a mineral [11:57] coursing through our atmosphere at tens [11:59] of thousands of miles per hour how' you [12:01] know how do we know we measure their [12:02] velocity we can track them on radar how [12:04] do you know that this is a meteor oh [12:06] this has all the characteristics of a [12:07] meteorite it's composition its density [12:10] it's a structure it has that weird [12:11] pattern on it but if you're really [12:13] curious what we could do so where's this [12:15] come from then or this one was found in [12:18] uh in uh in Argentina in a place called [12:20] the field of the stars and this could [12:22] have come from anywhere in the universe [12:24] exactly this came from this is basically [12:27] a fragment of an asteroid that EX [12:29] existed before the Earth Steven this is [12:31] a fragment a fossil relic of our solar [12:35] system from over four billion years ago [12:38] older than our Earth because our Earth [12:40] formed at its core our Earth has iron [12:42] inside of it it has an iron core just [12:45] like that that's pretty heavy right [12:46] that's not and it also made this here [12:49] this if you give this to your sweetheart [12:51] if you compress this by 100 thousand [12:52] times and give it to your sweetheart [12:54] she'll be really happy about that that's [12:56] pure carbon so that'll turn into a [12:58] diamond that'll turn into a diamond [12:59] I like to say you know pressure is what [13:01] turns dust into diamonds for anyone that [13:04] can't see this right now it looks like a [13:06] a dice it's it's almost identical to [13:08] like a black dice exact yep it's very [13:11] light now contrast that to and here's a [13:13] piece of rock this is mostly volcanic [13:15] rock I collected that in uh in [13:17] Antarctica I've been to Antarctica twice [13:20] to the South Pole I collected that [13:22] specimen there it has holes in it see [13:24] the holes those come from bubbling [13:25] escaping volcanic gases so there's [13:28] volcanoes down at the the South uh at [13:30] the in Antarctica not the South Pole and [13:32] then here's this one this is found oh [13:35] gosh [13:36] Namibia so this is a meteorite formed in [13:39] found in Namibia also from the same [13:41] process that formed our solar system [13:44] this was found by the natives that lived [13:46] there uh several hundred or maybe even a [13:49] thousand years ago this one's [13:50] particularly nice if you're not watching [13:52] it it looks like a human foot and I [13:54] can't explain how unbelievably heavy [13:57] that is yes I didn't think I've held [13:58] something thing that's this size but [14:00] this heavy before it's extremely dense [14:02] it's one it's the dense so what happens [14:03] when a star tries to make the iron in [14:05] that it takes more energy to make that [14:09] fuse that nuclei of iron than is given [14:11] off in the fusion process so therefore [14:13] the star can't support its weight it [14:16] collapses it explodes and rebounds now [14:19] when your listeners or viewers you know [14:21] go to my website and if they win one um [14:25] uh you'll see how attractive these [14:26] things are to magnets it's a very uh [14:28] powerful it's called a rare earth magnet [14:31] neodymium magnet [14:34] Jesus so attach it to the meteorite it's [14:37] fine to do that you can do [14:39] that wow that sound I love that sound a [14:43] ping so this [14:46] material is highly [14:48] magnetic and iron which is primarily the [14:52] constitution of this meteorite is has [14:55] the exact same chemical structure as in [14:57] your blood there's a molecule called [14:58] hemog globin mhm it's almost identical [15:01] to the chlorophyll molecule that plants [15:03] have except chlorophyll has a magnesium [15:05] atom at the center of its chemical [15:07] Matrix but in hemoglobin that's going [15:09] through your veins right now is iron [15:12] that iron came from that Supernova [15:15] eventually your mother you know and the [15:17] food that you eat has some iron in it [15:18] and your body starts to produce blood [15:21] and that blood has the same chemical [15:23] composition as the Stars so this 200 [15:26] million what are you doing okay we gonna [15:28] give back back to the money y exactly so [15:31] what is the fundamental question you're [15:32] seeking to answer so let's say you see [15:34] someone shooting a f a gun right you [15:37] want to see the but you see the smoke [15:38] from the gun you see the bullet moving [15:40] at great speed but you'd like to see who [15:42] actually shot it was it God you know was [15:44] it was it mother nature was it some [15:46] Quantum fluctuation in the Multiverse [15:49] and so we're trying to capture that to [15:51] to take a picture of the infant Universe [15:54] to take the earliest baby picture [15:55] possible using sensors that are [15:58] sensitive to in to uh microwave light [16:00] that we cannot see that's invisible to [16:02] us we could capture a pattern which [16:05] would only be present if the universe [16:08] had a singularity if it went through [16:10] this incredible rupture of SpaceTime [16:12] called The Big Bang the details of the [16:15] experiment were worked out over several [16:17] years we realized we had to go down to [16:19] the South Pole to the bottom of the [16:21] planet a place that was only reached 112 [16:24] years ago and the enemy of what I'm [16:26] trying to detect is water water absorb [16:28] absorbs microwaves that's how your [16:31] microwave oven Works to heat up coffee [16:33] so we we took that telescope there we [16:36] made an [16:37] observation we claim we detected that [16:40] baby picture that snapshot that [16:42] reverberations of the creation of time [16:44] and space itself called [16:46] inflation we were heralded around the [16:48] world that this is the greatest [16:51] discovery of all time in science [16:52] literally there was just one problem [16:55] when we made this measurement we were [16:59] aware that we could fool ourselves into [17:00] seeing what we wanted to see because we [17:02] knew how important this discovery would [17:03] be but we kind of convinced ourselves [17:06] that we had seen the true birth pangs of [17:09] the Big [17:10] Bang [17:11] but it turned out we didn't see that at [17:14] all instead what we saw were trillions [17:18] and trillions of tons of dust in our [17:20] galaxy for technical reasons it mimicked [17:23] the signal of the big [17:25] bang and we were crushed it literally [17:28] dust [17:29] we saw Cosmic dust the leftover [17:32] byproducts of exploded Stars just want [17:34] to be clear here so I'm um I don't want [17:37] to move on until I fully understand so [17:39] you you went down to the South Pole yeah [17:42] you looked up expecting to see these [17:44] sort of these waves that show that the [17:47] universe is expanding yes what you [17:50] actually saw like lines of dust right is [17:53] that a simplified way of say but you [17:54] thought you'd s seen these sort of [17:56] microwaves of the universe exping [17:57] exactly simplifying it perfectly we made [18:00] this discovery and then immediately [18:02] effectively in scientific terms 6 months [18:05] later this is an early 2015 we basically [18:08] had to admit we were wrong and [18:10] fortunately for me and for the universe [18:13] as a whole um I was very close with a [18:15] man named Jim Simons he was a Monumental [18:19] scientist mathematician without peer [18:21] effectively and he said Brian I I've [18:24] been thinking about this experiment and [18:26] um I want to I want to have a lger so he [18:29] put together this this dream team and [18:32] we're still together to this day we're [18:33] building an observatory in Chile not the [18:36] South Pole in Chile to do what bicep [18:39] couldn't do bicep being the telescope [18:41] you built in the South South po y that [18:43] lost the Nobel Prize in my first Books [18:45] language and we're just now getting data [18:47] it got first light a month before Jim [18:49] Simons passed away and so we were able [18:50] to show him the data that this [18:52] experiment is is is seeing I can't show [18:54] it to you is as confidential as a diary [18:56] is you hope nobody's looking but you [18:58] don't know if anybody is I can't show it [19:00] to you but the data is exquisite so what [19:01] do you um what do you suspect is the [19:04] origin of the [19:06] universe well uh is it God is it some [19:10] kind of strange Cosmic reaction that [19:13] took place for no reason at all I know [19:15] you must have a [19:18] suspicion you know if the universe began [19:20] with a singular Big Bang if it began on [19:23] a certain day or it didn't I just want [19:25] to know the truth the interpretation of [19:27] it that's going to be going on for I [19:29] mean people are battling about as I said [19:31] we thought we detected that signal right [19:33] so we already have um a simulation of [19:36] what will happen when this is discovered [19:38] for good finally and no dust right we [19:41] know exactly what the media will say at [19:43] that time on one side of the equation [19:45] were the greatest you know religious [19:48] thinkers and theologians of the time [19:50] saying this proves the existence of God [19:52] that God created the universe in a [19:54] singular moment let there be light Fiat [19:57] Lux that's exactly what the Torah the [20:00] Old Testament the Bible says so they [20:02] said it it agrees with our hypothesis on [20:05] the other side there were militant [20:08] atheists Richard Dawkins you know other [20:10] people saying this proves there's no [20:12] need for a God the universe came into [20:14] existence like you said meaningless [20:16] Quantum field the fluctuation out of [20:19] nothingness it proves nothing about God [20:21] in fact it invalidate literally Stephen [20:23] there were people publishing articles in [20:26] major newspapers everywhere that proves [20:29] God proves no God so it's not like I'm [20:32] going to think that I have the tarity to [20:35] say I'm going to be the final word or [20:36] we're going to be the final word I know [20:38] this is going to resonate and echo [20:40] through the through the you know anals [20:42] of history but at the same time we could [20:44] also see nothing and that's the hardest [20:47] thing when you see nothing the human [20:49] mind doesn't like ambiguity you know [20:51] like you can talk about um something [20:54] very uh you know non-controversial let's [20:56] talk about abortion rights let's talk [20:57] about trans rights let's no these are [20:59] incredibly controversial things right so [21:01] what does the human mind do it selects a [21:04] side it says no abortions abortion for [21:07] everybody no trans rights yes trans [21:08] rights uh immigration no immigration yes [21:11] IM the human mind hates that and for [21:13] good reason there's an old Yiddish [21:15] expression he who stands in the middle [21:17] of the road gets hit by both sides of [21:19] the traffic so the human mind Cleaves to [21:21] one side or the other I don't think you [21:24] know in terms of you know religion or [21:26] whatever that we'll be the defendant of [21:28] final word on it but it's sort of a [21:31] privilege to play the [21:33] game what is the most compelling [21:35] evidence that you've ever encountered [21:36] that there might be a [21:38] god this is a long uh long question well [21:42] I I hope you'll find it someday too [21:47] um at least in my religion in [21:50] Judaism God is the Creator and he's the [21:53] organizer he creates um light and [21:57] darkness he creates day and night he [21:59] creates Heaven and Earth he creates [22:01] beasts and um and Earth and fishes and [22:04] so forth and then he creates man [22:07] and we can't really emulate God even if [22:10] you don't believe in God you can imagine [22:13] what a God would be like right you can [22:15] conceptualize imagine you know King [22:17] Charles you know times a trillion or [22:19] whatever like the all powerful force but [22:21] at the same time we're told God as a [22:24] father Our Father who art in heaven [22:26] right um and he's a Lord he's he's like [22:28] a politician he's a king he's their [22:31] father in this judeo-christian concept [22:34] it's hard to kind of reconcile what that [22:35] means because we don't really have [22:37] analogies to it but the one analogy we [22:39] do get is the one thing that we can [22:40] create which is a which is a human now I [22:44] think for that reason men and women have [22:47] a stake in what it means to feel a [22:50] connection to God women much more so [22:52] it's almost impossible to for a man to [22:55] comprehend what it's like to have the [22:58] ability to be a vessel for life's [23:00] creation I think that's part of the [23:02] evidence for it um I also think that [23:05] there's some there's some Clues but [23:07] again it's not proof you cannot prove [23:08] God exists you cannot prove God doesn't [23:10] exist you have to be comfortable with [23:12] that ambiguity and very few people are [23:14] if we came from a single cell organism [23:17] as some people say then there was then [23:19] giving birth seems to be quite a New [23:22] Concept because you know if you think [23:24] about some of the evolutionary stories [23:26] of you know the single cell organism [23:28] that then divided and then you know [23:30] darwinism's theory that it was the [23:31] environment that defined how we give [23:33] birth and different animals give birth [23:35] or replicate in different ways so if you [23:38] go back far enough it seems that like [23:40] giving birth as we know it which is this [23:42] like process where the baby comes out [23:44] and they cut the cord is actually quite [23:46] recent in the history [23:48] of Consciousness but also just like [23:51] living [23:52] organisms does that make it more or less [23:54] miraculous or it's so amazing but it it [23:57] doesn't feel like it gives [24:01] me I don't know there's something in my [24:03] mind that thinks if a single cell [24:04] organism I don't know gazillion years [24:07] ago split because of some mutation which [24:11] caused more single cell organisms to [24:14] split I [24:16] mean I guess it's still creation isn't [24:19] it and then you could ask the question [24:22] what if there was a Creator and this [24:25] Creator not only um you you know created [24:29] that first cell but created within that [24:31] cell the possibility the propensity and [24:34] had the knowledge you know we can't [24:36] comprehend it but but had the knowledge [24:39] that that will eventually make a person [24:41] and have Consciousness and be able to [24:44] conceptualize God now I'm not saying [24:45] that's evidence for it but just you can [24:47] you can you can see which would be a [24:49] greater miracle that like God encrypted [24:52] in the DNA code that eventually there'll [24:54] be a Steven Bartlett or Brian keing or [24:57] you know that those are natural [24:59] processes that are the inevitable [25:00] conclusion of of creation of life and [25:03] evolution as you say in darwinian theory [25:04] for which we have abundant evidence [25:06] right I don't know which is more [25:08] miraculous and and that's [25:10] why you know Miracles humans are pretty [25:12] new aren't they so oh yeah mam mammals [25:15] like how old is the conscious human the [25:18] conscious I mean the first like Homo [25:19] sapiens that are of our species probably [25:21] 200,000 years old maybe so it's only [25:23] been for 200,000 years that we've been [25:24] even been able to think about the [25:26] possibility of God which is almost a [25:28] weird way way it almost you could say [25:30] God has only existed for 200,000 years [25:32] right yeah that's was a good way of [25:34] putting it and and in fact many people I [25:36] like to say this you know to you like [25:38] what's your favorite day of the year [25:41] like on the [25:42] calendar I was going to say day okay I [25:45] always ask people that I say like what's [25:46] your favorite day and usually I'll get [25:47] um Christmas uh my anniversary my [25:50] birthday my first kid's birthday [25:51] whatever but those are all Origins we [25:53] fascinated by Origins cuz you weren't [25:55] like you can't witness like the whole [25:56] process of your birth you have to rely [25:58] on mother and your father and maybe [25:59] there's some pictures and a nurse but [26:01] now go back to the beginning of the [26:02] universe well maybe there was only one [26:04] entity you know maybe it was only God [26:06] and why did God make the universe and [26:08] then of course there's many many [26:10] questions the the most kind of stringent [26:12] you know are are or perhaps most [26:16] challenging question is you know why [26:17] does evil [26:19] exist why would a good God create [26:21] suffering you know childhood leukemia [26:24] like it doesn't make any sense so the [26:26] the standard answer for that question [26:28] question is that to not have Randomness [26:31] to not have chaos to not have um [26:34] variability in life would would [26:36] necessitate a predetermined existence [26:40] and a lot of people believe that I've [26:41] talked Sam Harris in my podcast he's [26:43] been on here um he believes strict [26:46] determinism every single thing what's [26:48] happening to us right now the words that [26:49] are coming out of my mouth your uh ear [26:52] twitching or whatever it's to that's all [26:53] determined there's no control there's [26:55] free will is a complete and utter [26:57] illusion [26:58] and uh because of that then there [27:01] doesn't have to be an explanation of why [27:02] there's you know leukemia in children or [27:05] whatever and and yes that is that is an [27:07] unanswered question and I think but but [27:11] I don't think it's a sufficient question [27:13] not to do stuff people would ask why [27:15] does a child get leukemia but they won't [27:17] ask why do um humans experience uh the [27:20] highest the highest Pleasures the [27:22] highest Sensations both physically [27:24] viscerally but also emotionally and [27:26] spiritually that we unique among all the [27:28] Creations on earth have this ability to [27:30] appreciate our finite existence to have [27:33] love to have you know whatever this [27:35] connections are that's what makes life [27:37] living now we can't answer why is that [27:39] like do we deserve that so for me the [27:42] evil and good and like Pleasure and Pain [27:45] make lots of sense from an evolutionary [27:48] perspective it makes a lot of sense as [27:50] to why you would feel this overwhelming [27:53] sense of like love and protection when [27:55] you gave birth when your your your son [27:57] or your daughter arrives in the world [27:59] because that that feeling is passed down [28:01] from your ancestors and your ancestors [28:04] had that feeling so they survived and [28:06] their offspring survived and that [28:08] feeling gets stronger as it's passed [28:09] down because those that have it are more [28:11] likely to pass on their DNA so the DNA [28:13] of that feeling keeps passing through [28:15] the through the generation so I get that [28:16] and then with the with evil I also I can [28:20] also understand that pretty well um [28:22] because you know if we think of evil [28:24] maybe as a feeling or something that [28:26] happens or a disease I can understand [28:29] that evil is human is is human related [28:31] there's no evil cancer cancer is not [28:33] evil and even that I can understand [28:34] because I can understand the brain is so [28:36] fragile and I can understand all these [28:38] human instincts and chemicals and [28:40] jealousy and you know all of even love [28:43] comes with it you know if some if if a [28:45] woman dies it's probably a husband [28:47] statistically so like I understand you [28:49] know that's evil isn't it but but it's [28:51] love as well so I understand that the [28:52] complexities of all of that what I can't [28:55] understand [28:56] is what role God is playing in any of [29:00] this stuff and yeah I was I was [29:04] religious until I was 18 and then I [29:05] think I I fell down a rabbit hole [29:07] listening to like Richard Dawkins and [29:09] some of the others and Sam Harris and it [29:12] left me in a position where I would [29:13] probably Define myself as being agnostic [29:16] but there's still this big question mark [29:18] which hangs above my life which is like [29:20] where did where did human life come from [29:24] and is there is it possible that it just [29:27] didn't come from anyone is it possible [29:29] that there was a big bang you know at [29:32] the very start of all of this it caused [29:35] lots of reactions one such reaction was [29:38] fusing some chemicals which fused in the [29:40] right order over millions and millions [29:42] of years and it started to move in a way [29:45] that like plants can't move and that [29:49] then LED rise to the sort of [29:50] evolutionary process and now here I am [29:52] and my brain was just bigger 200,000 [29:55] years ago than the other monkeys so now [29:57] that I've develop this thing called [29:58] conscious where I can think about things [30:01] and here I am trying to figure it all [30:03] out now that I have this bigger brain [30:05] thanks to wian evolution is that is that [30:08] the game and it's and you know when [30:10] people hear me say that they probably [30:12] think oh you know the the natural [30:14] reaction to that is because it threatens [30:17] your sense of like purpose and belonging [30:19] and it threatens Justice your natural [30:20] reaction to that is no I hope it's not [30:23] and so let me think of ways that that [30:24] can't possibly be true but I'm I'm not [30:27] tempted by that I'm tempted by figuring [30:29] out what's true irrespective of how warm [30:31] and fuzzy it is MH and um I still don't [30:36] know but I'm hoping [30:38] science has some answers for me well [30:42] yeah sorry to disappoint right now the [30:44] the the connection that logical chain [30:46] that you that you produced has a lot of [30:49] so-called missing links but I you said [30:51] something that's very interesting to be [30:52] you said you consider yourself an [30:54] agnostic it sounds like in other words [30:55] it sounds to me like you're more you're [30:57] doing things that an atheist does like [30:59] you're not going to church you're not um [31:01] you know observing mass or whatever you [31:03] would do if you're but what do you do do [31:06] do and they because if you're an [31:08] agnostic there should be some Behavior [31:10] that's similar to a theist why because [31:13] then you're just an atheist right I mean [31:15] in other words how do you what practices [31:18] I'm a behaviorist in in in my life you [31:19] know so I judge people on how they act [31:21] and how they behave and and you know a [31:23] lot about this so how do you do you [31:25] behave as if there could be a god do you [31:27] you said maybe you want science to [31:30] explain it you didn't say like I would [31:32] like to have a personal revelation from [31:34] Jesus I I would like to encounter him or [31:37] whatever V I don't care what religion is [31:39] but how do you in practice live your [31:41] life such that if God does exist that [31:44] that it would make a difference in the [31:46] way that you're perceived or judged if [31:47] you will yeah well I I I don't because I [31:50] guess I don't know what I don't know [31:52] what practice because I don't know what [31:54] God exists or what story is true I don't [31:56] know what practice is true do you think [31:58] of god let's say you were um Hindu right [32:00] yeah let's say let's say you're not [32:02] Hindu let's say you are what you are [32:04] Presbyterian or the Church of if I had a [32:06] practice wouldn't that make me religious [32:08] well I'm saying do you think if there is [32:10] a God we have to do this Matrix right we [32:11] have to say God exists God doesn't exist [32:13] even behaves like he's religious Steph [32:15] doesn't behave like he's religious right [32:17] so right now you're in one of those [32:18] quadrants you you're not sure God exists [32:21] um so you're behaving maybe as if he [32:22] doesn't exist and I'm asking you and now [32:25] he could exist or he could not exist so [32:27] imagine you move into another quadrant [32:29] you say I'm going to behave like I'm [32:30] Hindu or come down to my temple in San [32:32] Diego whatever you're going to behave in [32:33] some religion do you think if God exists [32:36] he's GNA say oh God Stephen you picked [32:39] the wrong one it's not it's not uh it's [32:40] it's jism it's it's um it's whatever [32:43] it's it's um it's um uh Latter-Day Saint [32:47] I I don't think I think a revolutionary [32:49] statement I think God has common sense [32:51] if he exists if he doesn't exist it [32:53] doesn't matter what you do right but if [32:54] God exists he must have common sense [32:56] meaning that if you make make an Earnest [32:58] attempt to understand or at least engage [33:00] yourself religiously not believe and [33:02] force yourself to believe not make [33:04] excuses for evil that happens in the [33:05] world or cancer for kids but if you [33:07] behave in a certain way I don't think if [33:09] God exists big if you'll be judged [33:11] harshly I this is exactly the conclusion [33:14] that stopped me being religious when I [33:15] was 18 really yes exact conclusion [33:18] because so we'd go to um church every [33:21] week we grew up going to church read the [33:23] Bible all of those things and then I [33:26] when I was younger I was operating under [33:27] the assumption that I was going to go to [33:28] hell and burn if I didn't like obey this [33:30] this person in the sky then I read these [33:33] books I St Richard Dawkins books and a [33:36] bunch of other books on the subject [33:38] matter and I heard that God was [33:40] omnipotent and omniscient which makes a [33:43] lot of sense because if you create this [33:44] world and you can you know you're you're [33:45] active in it you must be pretty powerful [33:48] and pretty knowing and then I concluded [33:51] that if I basically concluded God would [33:53] have common sense and I thought he would [33:55] understand that I'm struggling and he [33:57] would understand that as long as I live [33:58] a good life and I'm not murdering people [34:00] and I'm not mean to people and I'm kind [34:03] and I'm respectful to people and I'm a [34:05] net positive on the earth then if Heaven [34:07] does exist any God that I would want to [34:10] support anyway would let me in and he [34:12] would understand that I didn't have [34:13] enough information to to put my flag in [34:15] any particular religion so he would let [34:17] me in so my my thesis then became well [34:20] just be a good person and you're kind of [34:22] hedging your best because any decent God [34:24] that's I think worth supporting would go [34:27] that was a decent person he couldn't [34:28] quite see it you know whatever but but [34:30] you wouldn't see it a little I sorry to [34:32] push back but if you if you let's say I [34:35] say I want to get in shape Stephen and [34:36] and yeah I deserve it got kids you know [34:38] I want to be healthy live a long life [34:40] but you see me eating you know I [34:42] wouldn't eat cheeseburgers kosher but [34:44] hamburgers french fries you know just [34:46] just and I'm say well like you know [34:49] whatever we'll understand like I in [34:51] other words you you would agree that if [34:54] you knew God exists you would do you [34:56] would behave very radically different L [34:58] right if if I if you had an encounter [35:00] with god well Jesus or or God himself [35:04] right it depends if I knew for sure that [35:07] he existed and a particular book and [35:10] Doctrine was correct I would 100% behave [35:13] in line with that book IND Doctrine but [35:14] if I knew he existed but I didn't know [35:16] which book was correct then I probably [35:18] would behave exactly how I do [35:20] now so because the behavior the practice [35:23] the Sabbath comes from one of those [35:24] books or doctrines so right but but even [35:27] if you couldn't choose right what if [35:30] it's like um what if it's possible that [35:33] all of them are right and all of them [35:35] are wrong in other words you um we are [35:38] so frail fragile and and and inadequate [35:41] to the task of understanding what the [35:43] true nature of God is that he made it [35:45] such that again I'm not saying this is [35:47] true but but it made it possible that [35:49] there would be ways of interpretation [35:51] for how he existed right like I as a Jew [35:53] don't believe in Jesus's Divinity right [35:55] but I don't I don't fult my friends [35:57] friends you know jbot a CH I don't fault [35:59] him I don't in fact I think it's [36:00] beautiful that that's his Avenue for [36:02] worship he believes that Jesus died for [36:04] his personal sins now you would admit [36:07] that you would have uh Jesus will still [36:09] die for your sin or you know he did die [36:10] for your sins if you're an Axe Murderer [36:12] you know so I just think that level of [36:14] saying it's um as long as I don't murder [36:16] anybody you know it's like me saying [36:18] well you know if I'm destined to get [36:20] into shape I'll get in shape you know my [36:22] metabolism will work it out without me [36:24] taking this the the serious action and [36:27] working hard because you do it in your [36:28] rest of your life right and I'm not by [36:30] the way I'm not prosing it's actually [36:31] forbidden in My Religion I'm not Pros [36:33] but but the but that concept of God is [36:37] uh that Richard Dawkins doesn't believe [36:38] in I also don't believe in that like [36:40] he's omniscient he's gonna prevent you [36:42] know babies from dying from caner he's [36:44] going to do this or that like that's [36:45] where they make fun of it um or they [36:47] they they relegate it to the a friend in [36:49] the sky you called it right I I don't [36:51] believe there's a friend in the sky I [36:52] don't think that even makes sense um but [36:55] I believe that we are seeing something [36:57] so heavily refracted again if it exists [37:00] it's it's like uh showing a microwave [37:03] telescope you know showing bicep or the [37:05] Simon's Observatory uh to you know Gog [37:08] who lived in a cave 200,000 years ago [37:10] like there's no way to get from there to [37:13] here but that doesn't mean like there [37:14] isn't an ultimate there an Ultimate here [37:17] for me I I let me just say the final [37:19] thing I want to say because I don't want [37:20] to make too much about this but but um [37:22] there's a value in practicing even if [37:25] you don't believe just like I say [37:27] sometimes like even if you got divorced [37:28] like you should still get married [37:30] because it changes you and it opens you [37:31] up to the full panoply of human [37:33] experience that a lot of people don't [37:35] get to experience and when people have [37:37] the capacity the capability to do it [37:39] they should in my opinion uh by the way [37:41] I'm not advocated to get divorced either [37:43] but but the point being uh you obviously [37:45] wrestle with it and and um interestingly [37:48] enough the word Israel which is the [37:50] central you know country of of judaic [37:52] faith means fight with God it means [37:53] wrestle with God L is God Israel means [37:56] fight so how do you wrestle with it do [37:59] you wrestle with it do you think about [38:00] it or do you say you know I'm not going [38:03] to read these books that I read before I [38:04] was 18 because it seems so childish to [38:07] me now and so I I do I certainly wrestle [38:09] with it so when I say wrestle with it [38:12] not in a way that is causing me any pain [38:14] or Agony or deep frustration but [38:18] it's it's yeah it's a recurring thought [38:21] and I actually think from doing this [38:23] podcast and just um like maybe growing [38:26] up and [38:28] uh the journey I've been on I [38:30] have more questions now than I ever have [38:34] since I became agnostic at 18 so I have [38:36] more questions now it's funny I've been [38:37] on this bit of an arc where I was [38:39] certain when I was younger that God was [38:40] real and then I was really um certain [38:43] that the god I believed in probably [38:46] wasn't real and now i' kind of find [38:48] myself going back to a position where [38:49] I'm like almost like I'm starting the [38:52] research project again to figure out [38:53] what actually is what actually is real I [38:57] sometimes wonder if I'm looking for the [38:58] wrong thing cuz I think because we've [39:00] been so sort of indoctrinated into this [39:01] idea that it is a man in the sky and all [39:04] these the white beard and stuff so we're [39:05] like looking for evidence of that but [39:07] maybe I should be searching for evidence [39:08] of something else is it like a feeling [39:11] I'm searching for is it it's interesting [39:13] that you said that it REM reminds me of [39:14] Einstein Einstein said um he never asked [39:17] his father what would happen daddy if I [39:19] was traveling at the speed of light and [39:20] I looked at myself in a mirror and he [39:23] said it was good I didn't ask those [39:24] questions when I was five because my dad [39:26] would have given me this standard answer [39:28] of the 1800s which was you know you see [39:30] a reflect or whatever and then Einstein [39:32] said I would have just accepted that and [39:34] then I would never have gone on to [39:35] create the theory of relativity what you [39:37] said Echoes what he said because if you [39:39] if you had asked these questions and [39:40] just accepted the belief that you had [39:42] when you were 12 you would not be [39:44] approaching them with the maturity of a [39:45] Steven Bartlett at age 32 right and now [39:49] you have this perspective you have a [39:50] wisdom that you've accured from your [39:52] life experiences from the the millions [39:54] of people that you've helped around the [39:55] world to expose them to different things [39:57] and you're on a journey yourself so [39:59] anyway I I I just I don't so I don't [40:02] have tolerance for scientists that [40:03] dismiss it and say it's stupid and I'm [40:05] like but I also I I I find that [40:07] religious people are too comfortable [40:09] saying everything is described by God [40:11] everything happens because of God and I [40:13] see this a lot with religious children [40:15] um sometimes I'll go into kids school [40:16] and teach them uh you know about science [40:19] I'll bring these you know props and [40:20] stuff uh but when I talk to them [40:22] sometimes I'll say like oh look there's [40:23] a rainbow over there oh that's great [40:25] where did it come from they'll say God [40:27] made it [40:28] I think that's I joke that's a form of [40:30] child abuse you know if you just say [40:32] that God made it you're a completely [40:34] ignorant about the science but B you're [40:36] also diminishing God's power right if [40:39] you say No actually that's an effect of [40:41] of water droplets which are formed [40:43] hydrogen oxygen and here's their [40:45] chemistry and here's how they form uh [40:47] different state of matter when they're [40:48] in Collective and here's how that causes [40:51] light to defract at different [40:52] wavelengths and here's wavelength [40:53] electromagnetic radiation where does [40:55] that come and you keep asking the [40:56] question why why why why only when you [40:58] get to the question the answer the final [41:00] answer I don't know that's the only time [41:03] I would say Okay God could come in there [41:05] but that takes you back you know that [41:07] whole chain of refraction of light of [41:09] dialectric material of of of wavelengths [41:11] of of color all that that takes you back [41:14] till almost to the Big Bang which then [41:15] intersects with what I do you said um [41:18] that you think of God as almost like a [41:20] force do you think it's a conscious [41:23] Force I if you if I sit down and pray to [41:26] this God will they hear me I honestly [41:30] kid say I don't know but I know that [41:32] you'll change I know that you'll hear [41:33] yourself okay if you can go down to the [41:36] ocean student if you can go down to the [41:37] Pacific Ocean and just be isolated and [41:40] just pour yourself out for an hour I [41:42] guarantee it will change your life you [41:44] will be in tears but no one will see you [41:46] that's the thing that's why you have to [41:47] be alone you cannot do it with any other [41:48] person you must do it on your own [41:50] because there's no Sam Harris meditation [41:53] waking up app it's not going to do the [41:54] same for you as as just you alone and [41:58] not knowing is part of the point I think [42:00] but what's that got to do with God [42:01] what's me going down to the beach and [42:03] pouring my heart out which would get me [42:04] into my amigdala it'll get me thinking [42:06] about you know it'll make me emotional I [42:08] can imagine you know even listening to [42:09] certain music can make you feel that [42:11] what what role is God playing in in that [42:14] moment because if God exists I do [42:17] believe that he's inside of you and that [42:19] you can connect with him again you can't [42:21] detect him with an MRI machine or you [42:24] can't detect him with a laser but you [42:26] know can if again it's a big if I'm not [42:28] guaranteeing you know I'm sorry to [42:30] disappoint I'm not that kind of doctor [42:31] you know I I can't give you a [42:33] prescription that'll make you believe [42:35] but to have access to it you have to be [42:37] open to a communication right imagine [42:40] you got you know a a you know an email [42:42] and you just never respond to it like [42:43] people remember the movie Interstellar [42:45] You' seen that movie so uh there you [42:47] know the the people on Earth are [42:49] communicating with the people you know [42:50] Matthew mcc's daughter and she she [42:52] doesn't know if he's listening he [42:53] doesn't and he knows that she's but in [42:56] that sense he's kind of like this like [42:57] he has knowledge that she doesn't have [42:59] but if she doesn't try maybe she [43:01] wouldn't maybe just the aspect of trying [43:04] the attribute of trying is what opened [43:06] her up to that return signal the [43:08] communication that she eventually [43:09] received so interesting because when I [43:11] asked the question about can God hear me [43:14] and if he can hear me I guess the second [43:15] question is can he do anything about [43:17] what he's [43:18] hearing um there's so much evidence in [43:21] the world that he can't hear you and [43:23] he's not going to do anything about it [43:24] but again you say that but like what if [43:26] uh you know know who knows if if you're [43:29] if your parents you know like they were [43:31] a lot of the stories in the early in [43:33] Testament are about sterile Barren women [43:36] that couldn't conceive you know from [43:38] Sarah Rebecca to to Rachel all these [43:42] women they couldn't conceive they cried [43:43] out they they prayed and again women are [43:45] closer to God in many ways because they [43:46] contain life within them um again in [43:50] what sense are you not already the [43:53] recipient of the beneficence of [43:55] something that we just don't understand [43:57] like potentially yeah but but but when I [43:59] ask this question about like could I if [44:01] I pray is it going to influence my [44:03] outcomes in any way you know there's a I [44:05] don't believe it does I I I don't [44:07] believe it does for the reason I said [44:08] before like people were praying here for [44:10] the Dodgers I'm sure there were equally [44:11] virtuous people praying for the an [44:13] that's what I mean if you think about [44:14] the scientific method that's why I said [44:15] I don't we could we could apply that and [44:17] say does prayer work right and you could [44:19] get I don't know look through history at [44:21] the Holocaust or look at some other [44:23] world natural disaster and think it has [44:25] praying swayed the the probabilities of [44:27] bad things happening to people so I [44:29] don't believe that at all but I do [44:30] believe that fundamentally a a person [44:33] who believes that their um that their [44:37] actions have some impact will feel at [44:40] least a sense of gratitude let me let me [44:42] give you an example you're familiar in [44:44] Christianity you know people say a [44:45] blessing before the meal like grace [44:47] before a meal so in Judaism you do that [44:49] before the meal after the meal sometimes [44:50] during the meal uh but the point is the [44:52] more you Express gratitude you you [44:55] cannot be a happy person and be being an [44:57] ingrate Yeah the more you're grateful [44:59] for like the sound of you know of of you [45:04] know a song that is just so meaningful [45:06] to you the sight of a painting or a [45:08] sunset the more that you're s and in [45:10] Judaism we say blessings for those [45:12] things like we say if we see a meteor [45:14] shower we say a blessing it's hard for [45:16] me as an astronomer you got to say [45:17] blessing a rainbow another thing those [45:19] are like kind of things we become [45:21] desensitized to in life and we just take [45:23] for granted when you taste a a fine wine [45:26] or you taste you know some delicious [45:28] food again it could just be chlorophyll [45:30] here's Stephen have here's your plate of [45:32] agar gum like okay great I could live [45:35] here's whey powder that's all you ever [45:37] get to eat and you'd be like this sucks [45:39] I know what I'm Ahad and if I could only [45:40] go back to it after I get out you know [45:42] of the situation I'm going to be so [45:44] grateful to me that grateful gratitude [45:47] connects to the ultimate source of that [45:49] provided that we can't understand it's [45:51] true I cannot give you and I told you I [45:53] have problems with prayer because I [45:55] don't like to be told what to do I don't [45:57] like to be told I have to say this in [45:58] this order stand up sit down fast on [46:00] this day do this thing not eat that [46:01] delicious pink guy with the curly tail [46:04] like but when you do that you know this [46:06] the more you're disciplined the happier [46:08] your life is you know who's who's more [46:11] happy the guy who eats everything he [46:13] wants or Joo you know like the the the [46:15] person who just gives into all their [46:16] Temptations of alcohol the person who [46:19] abstains and and elevates what they do [46:22] and I think we want to elevate ourselves [46:24] above the level of an animal of the [46:26] animals but I can have all those [46:27] behaviors of like a gratitude practice I [46:29] can have a meditation practice I go down [46:30] to the beach I can do all of those [46:32] things and I still I can still do all of [46:34] those things without the need of a god [46:36] oh sure and I'll get all the benefits of [46:39] those things I'd get when I when I [46:41] Express gratitude before I eat or [46:43] sometimes when I'm getting on a plane [46:44] and I I I touch the plane to remind [46:46] myself and I can always make myself [46:47] emotional just thinking about how [46:49] remarkable it is that I get to do some [46:50] of the things I've been able to do in my [46:52] life to the point of like physical [46:53] emotion yeah um but without the presence [46:56] of [46:57] of needing to equate that to a god in [47:00] any [47:01] way so I'm I'm trying to find I guess [47:04] I'm searching for where God fits in all [47:06] of this why why is why is God why is a [47:07] god required is it just because I have [47:09] so many blessings that I should be [47:11] thankful to someone for these things [47:12] which I do contem with I go okay and let [47:14] me think about how my life has changed [47:15] in the last 10 years of you know from [47:17] going from some of those shoplifting [47:18] pizzas to sitting here and getting to do [47:20] these it's it's remarkable you you start [47:22] to think you're a little bit in the [47:23] Treeman show if you're not if you think [47:24] about it too deeply but um and you do [47:27] feel you think who do I thank for this [47:28] so you think do I thank my parents like [47:29] right do I thank myself so you do I [47:33] thank a god um but I but is that the [47:36] reason it just to just just to be [47:38] thankful but then I go there's a bias [47:40] there because there's kids in the town [47:42] in Botana that I was born in that are [47:44] still in the town in Botswana that I was [47:46] born in and they're not doing so good so [47:48] they do they have did God not like them [47:50] did and then if you go no God likes both [47:52] of you then I go okay well then God [47:54] isn't responsible for this it was [47:55] something that I did or my parents did [47:56] that responsible for this so I should [47:57] thank them so where does God fit again [47:59] and I just go around in these loops and [48:00] I go I don't know what are we trying to [48:03] create a God to make sense of the things [48:06] we feel and the experiences we have and [48:08] the baby that grabs our finger and the [48:11] Gratitude and the the the the solar [48:13] eclipse and the the sunset are we trying [48:16] to trying to give that to someone [48:18] because it's just so the a is just so [48:20] much or did God give that to [48:23] us well I mean the perspective that [48:26] you're bringing is obviously you've [48:28] thought about this a lot and obviously [48:30] your attitude is healthy and I think [48:31] that you have you know unbalanced I [48:33] think yeah obviously living as a a good [48:36] life even if you I'd never say that an [48:38] atheist can't be a good person or can't [48:40] be happy or any of these things the [48:42] question is what where does it augment [48:44] and affect your life like for example I [48:47] don't know if I would give 10% of my [48:50] income to charity before tax income to [48:52] charity if I if it wasn't a commandment [48:55] in My Religion but I don't shame for [48:57] that I don't feel like oh you needed [48:59] religion to tell you this because again [49:00] I'm still searching just as much as I [49:02] think that you are I don't feel like uh [49:05] as untroubled by the answers of it right [49:07] I don't feel like that not knowing for [49:11] sure that God exists which I don't [49:12] believe is possible anyway that that [49:15] should be an impediment to me practicing [49:18] giving charity being in a community um [49:21] uh raising my kids with an appreciation [49:23] of their history and their culture um [49:25] and and just the contrib R butions of [49:27] their religion of your religion whatever [49:29] to to the world so if you found out from [49:32] this new project that you've you've [49:33] launched this 2 million $200 million [49:35] project that you've launched to figure [49:36] out the existence of I guess where the [49:40] not the existence but the origin of the [49:41] universe the origin of life if you found [49:44] out unequivocally that God isn't real [49:47] convinces you to the point that you now [49:49] believe that God is not the creator of [49:52] the universe and that I don't know you [49:54] figure out some other way we can create [49:55] universes in little Labs maybe a [49:57] thousand years from now we can create [49:58] our own little universes from nothing [50:00] somehow or we find out we're in [50:01] simulation yeah whatever yes exactly how [50:04] does that change [50:05] you because I'm a [50:08] behaviorist I I I don't I really don't [50:11] feel like my life would be better to act [50:15] as if God doesn't exist in other words [50:17] if I know God doesn't exist then I'm [50:18] gonna act like he doesn't exist right [50:20] that's a logical assumption yeah right [50:23] so I'm going to stop giving charity like [50:25] is that going to make me happy in life [50:27] is that going to benefit Society or my [50:29] or you know Zeus or whatever doesn't [50:31] exist like I already know that's not [50:33] true right so I've kind of done this [50:35] experiment like all these other gods I [50:37] know I don't believe in raah you know a [50:40] so you wouldn't do anything differently [50:41] benefits to my life are so substantive [50:44] that I would not change my behavior but [50:47] you you're being guided then by your be [50:49] your behavior and the rewards from [50:51] Behavior which is pretty much my life [50:54] yeah well okay so right the breath work [50:56] and the meditation I'm being Guided by [50:57] like if gratitude feels good I do it if [50:59] going down to the beach feels good I do [51:00] it if having a baby feels good I'll do [51:01] it you know so like it could be [51:03] dangerous to Dev add God to my life or [51:05] take it away my behaviors are going to [51:07] be the same because I'm I'm being Guided [51:09] by the things that are making me feel [51:12] good but I don't think so you're not [51:14] like those hidden istic Instagram [51:16] influencers no because that would make [51:17] me feel good like a donut I've run the [51:19] experiment and eating the donut makes me [51:20] feel okay for the time it's touching my [51:22] tongue but then bad for 12 hours when my [51:26] gut starts reacting badly so I don't do [51:28] that anymore well let me ask you this [51:29] question so if they found out that uh [51:31] working out is uh eventually it's it's [51:34] actually going to shorten your life or [51:36] it's going to do the opposite of what [51:38] you're intending it to do necessarily [51:39] would you keep working [51:41] out how much is it going to short My [51:43] Life by um every uh every uh you know ab [51:48] crunch you do every bench press takes a [51:50] an hour off your life or something or a [51:52] couple minutes off your life oo this [51:54] it's an interesting one um [51:57] I would probably [52:00] live 10 years less to [52:05] live like 10 years better like to have a [52:07] better health span so I Pro if you told [52:09] me I was going to live to aund 100 with [52:11] without working out or I could live to [52:12] 90 but I'm going to be strong and fit [52:14] for those 90 years I'll take the 90 [52:16] years so in my analogy that's exactly [52:18] right so I feel like that level of of [52:23] perfecting or enjoyment and the Ary [52:26] benefits of [52:27] gratitude uh and and happiness that I've [52:31] received tangibly you cannot convince me [52:33] as I can't convince you that working out [52:35] feels I couldn't convince you working [52:36] out is bad it feels bad for you it does [52:38] something to you physically mentally [52:40] emotionally um I won't say spiritually [52:43] but for me to see the benefits to see [52:45] the things that I've seen like like look [52:47] Stephen I've buried my father okay and [52:51] in in Judaism one of the core tenants is [52:54] that it's the highest it's sort of the [52:56] highest Mitzvah it's the highest [52:57] commandment to take care of someone [52:59] who's died why because they can't [53:01] reciprocate most of what we do in life [53:03] we have some kind of contract you know [53:05] we play by the rules we do things nicely [53:07] we have contractors we invest in [53:08] Dragon's Den whatever we're going to get [53:10] some there's nothing good there's [53:12] nothing that will come out of it that [53:14] will benefit you I've seen things I've [53:17] seen people that are saints that I can't [53:21] aspire to even be in their presence of [53:24] but it's made my life better I wouldn't [53:26] Chang the things that I've done or seen [53:29] and you couldn't convince me it wasn't [53:31] good for me and as I said before maybe [53:32] you think I'm weak but I wouldn't have [53:34] done it if I didn't feel it was [53:37] commanded to me you you mentioned the [53:39] word simulation yeah a second [53:42] ago this is something that I've been [53:44] thinking a lot [53:45] about what is just for people that don't [53:48] know what is the simulation Theory and [53:51] are we living in a [53:53] simulation great question so the [53:55] simulation Theory was really conjectured [53:57] by a British philosopher or he's [54:00] actually Swedish or I believe Nick [54:02] Bostrom he conjectured the following he [54:04] said compute is getting so phenomenally [54:07] powerful in just our recent time Horizon [54:10] so the notion that Nick and others had [54:12] proposed is that if this is extrapolated [54:15] indefinitely into the future whether or [54:17] not that can happen is a question about [54:19] planetary resources you know part of the [54:20] reason Elon wants to go to Mars and I do [54:22] want to talk to you about Mars in a bit [54:24] um and that uh that extrapolation leads [54:27] in exra Le to the to the conclusion that [54:30] compute will be effectively free and [54:33] it'll be infinite it'll be completely [54:35] democra democratized it will be [54:37] completely demonetized it will be almost [54:40] you know as I said too cheap to to to [54:42] measure the expense of computing and [54:44] it'll be everywhere uh in just a short [54:46] amount of time I mean remember the the [54:48] phone that we have uh the iPad that [54:50] you're using these are like these things [54:52] would literally be a mythological [54:54] witchcraft you know 80 years ago and now [54:57] they're they're in common place and so [55:00] the the notion that Nick proposed Boston [55:02] proposed is that that Trend continues [55:04] into the future that basically the [55:06] capability of those computers would be [55:08] to be able to model entire planets [55:11] entire ecosystems even cultures [55:14] communities maybe even people themselves [55:16] so we let's take a parallel um uh DeTour [55:20] for just a bit you're not seeing me [55:24] necessarily you're seeing photons are [55:25] coming into your retinas right photons [55:28] are packets of energy form of light they [55:30] travel at the speed of light they have [55:32] different wavelengths the wavelengths we [55:33] call color they're going into your uh [55:35] cornea getting bent a little bit then [55:37] they're going to your lens getting bent [55:39] more then they're going to your retina [55:40] and they're getting detected on this [55:42] basically uh a detector just like a a [55:45] sensor in a camera which has pixels [55:47] except it has trillions of pixels [55:48] instead of millions of megapixel or few [55:50] megapixels and those are being [55:52] transduced the color gets transduced on [55:55] on cells that are called con cells the [55:57] intensity is Rod cells um and and those [55:59] are getting transduced into electrical [56:01] impulses that go from the uh optic nerve [56:04] right into your brain and remember [56:05] Andrew hin told you on the show The [56:07] Retina is the only part of the human [56:08] brain that's outside of the cranium it's [56:10] outside of the skull um and so it's a [56:12] part of your brain that's outside so it [56:14] transduces it makes electrical impulses [56:16] those electrical impulses then get [56:18] conducted like wires conducting [56:20] electricity uh and then those go into [56:22] your brain and synapses in your brain [56:24] and the neural Pathways in your brain [56:26] can reproduce those now you have an [56:28] apple Vision Pro I think I I saw you [56:30] with once um so that can you know kind [56:33] of simulate it could make very accurate [56:35] representation of me holographic perhaps [56:37] and you would want to reach out and [56:38] touch me now imagine instead of just uh [56:42] instead of just the um just the raw chem [56:45] the physical Electronics of a of a [56:47] headset Apple Vision Pro you just inject [56:49] the electrical signals into the brain so [56:52] that's plausible it's it's just purely [56:54] physical material processes uh photons [56:56] converted to electrons get converted to [56:59] neuron signals get processed in the [57:01] brain and so all you have to do is get [57:02] that input sensory input you can have a [57:04] digital retina a fake retina and you [57:06] stimulate it goes into your brain [57:07] they're working on that same with sound [57:09] sound is even easier you put a little [57:11] speaker in your ear and you'd hear um [57:13] but uh so the notion is that we could [57:16] physically just be disconnected brains [57:19] in a vat right we could just be uh in in [57:21] this vast system just Bunches of brains [57:24] don't ask how they got there but we're [57:25] all just receiving stimuli and we're [57:28] just being fed I'm being fed an image of [57:29] you over there you're being fed an image [57:31] of me over here I don't know why nobody [57:33] knows why this would occur but the [57:35] computing power is there if you think [57:37] that the Apple Vision Pro if if you were [57:39] alive in [57:40] 1971 uh you could not have necessarily [57:42] predicted the Apple Vision Pro it was [57:44] too far Advanced from from what we have [57:46] right from what we had at that point in [57:48] time but imagine it just keeps [57:49] increasing at any rate you like [57:52] eventually there'll be a point where [57:53] every bit of information every atom in [57:56] the universe every Photon in the [57:58] universe could theoretically be [57:59] simulated again I don't know why this is [58:02] but it would be indistinguishable from [58:04] our reality according to people like [58:06] Nick Bostrom and others that suggests [58:09] this is so so that our existence is we [58:12] are essentially in a [58:13] simulation so the notion is that we're [58:15] all these characters in this literal [58:19] simulation run on some computering [58:21] device some Hardware device that we [58:23] don't necessarily understand at this [58:25] point and we're calling that God well [58:28] that was I was going to get to uh So [58:30] eventually you get to a point where if [58:32] you could simulate everything then you [58:34] would have to ask there must be some [58:36] simulator right there must be some [58:38] master simulator so let's say I'm a [58:41] simulation well who simulated me and [58:44] then oh who simulated them and then who [58:45] simulated them so that's the recursion [58:47] that's infinite regress you can't [58:49] actually get to a base level of um you [58:52] know a final simulator and if you did it [58:54] would kind of be like God like you're [58:55] talking about this brain in a jar that's [58:57] created out of silicon and and and [58:59] oxygen and whatever we're made of but [59:00] it's physically created by human beings [59:02] what if you can't pay the power bill [59:04] that week and um you know you have to [59:06] choose between unplugging your [59:08] refrigerator or unplugging the brain [59:09] like is that killing something you know [59:11] like it starts to enter into the realm [59:13] of ethics and maybe even these concepts [59:16] of a deity what I've heard and I find [59:19] quite plausible is um remember I said [59:23] the the implication of having infinite [59:25] Compu is that you can simulate [59:27] everything in the universe yeah uh but [59:29] can it simulate itself so I want to [59:31] digress into what's called complexity [59:33] Theory there are two different types of [59:36] of difficult things there's like a [59:37] complex thing like building an Airbus [59:40] 320 it's very complicated right you can [59:44] do it if I give you all the parts all [59:45] the instructions give you the right [59:47] order and I keep you energized like [59:49] anybody can follow the instructions and [59:50] make it the Earth's weather pattern [59:53] state right now is complex there's [59:56] there's no way that you can actually [59:58] create that like you would need another [60:00] plane sized thing to create that that's [60:02] called irreducibly complex you cannot [60:04] make it simpler and then Build It Up [60:06] from simpler and simpler things unlike [60:08] an Airbus you can build it up from [60:09] smaller and smaller parts and as long as [60:11] you follow the recipe you know if you [60:13] follow the recipe for the Simon [60:14] Observatory you'll get the Simon's [60:15] Observatory but if you try to simulate [60:17] and it may be the simulate the weather [60:20] you do need another planet like we' need [60:22] another planet just like the Earth and [60:24] then we'd introduce carbon dioxide as [60:26] certain rate and we see is it really [60:27] going to cause it like that's totally [60:28] impractical right so the question of [60:31] these things is um is it really a [60:34] simulation if it's not 100% like you [60:37] could make a very very good weather [60:38] simulation we do have that uh but but [60:41] famously they're only accurate for a few [60:42] days right so so how do you build up you [60:45] know an accurate simulator it have to be [60:47] the same so in other words do we need [60:49] like another is there another Universe [60:50] where the simulators are that's equally [60:53] complex to the simulation creation that [60:55] they made and then did they stop like [60:57] did they get are they made of silica are [60:59] they artificial are they so there are [61:02] proposals that you could detect the [61:04] presence it's kind of like you mentioned [61:05] the chman show where how all computers [61:09] work right now is is on this binary code [61:12] zeros and ones five volts zero volts um [61:16] but um and that means that the world is [61:18] fundamentally discretized it's broken [61:20] into little chunks like the screen on [61:21] your computer or your iPad it's [61:24] pixelated in space we call called voxels [61:26] volume elements um and so you can um you [61:30] can have an a large number of them but [61:32] it's a big difference between a large [61:34] number and infinity to really have a [61:36] continuous like like um temperature is [61:39] continuous like go from 0 degrees to 100 [61:41] degrees and there's every step in [61:43] between but in the simulated world [61:45] because you couldn't have you need an [61:47] infinite number of computer power to [61:50] simulate just from 0 degrees to one [61:51] degree not let alone from 0 to 100 or [61:54] every possible combination [61:56] so at some level you you'd see if you [61:58] zoomed in really close on the on the [61:59] thermometer you'd see there's a little [62:01] jump so you could detect the presence of [62:03] the simulator it's more complicated [62:05] actually it's done using astrophysical [62:07] sources called Gamay burst and other [62:09] things that are um that have properties [62:11] that are seemingly incompatible with [62:13] their being a simulation at the most [62:15] distant and therefore earliest moments [62:17] in the universe so right now there's [62:18] zero evidence for it Nick Bost will tell [62:20] you and you should have them on uh that [62:23] that you know that that's basically a [62:24] copout and and there are ways around [62:26] that that uh that fail safe mechanism [62:30] aliens do aliens [62:33] exist yes aliens do exist uh there's an [62:37] old joke they're called hungarians [62:39] hungarians are there's so many countries [62:41] um so I I yes there's all joke there are [62:44] aliens they're Klingons and they're [62:46] around Uranus but I wanted to give this [62:48] to you Stephen as one of the gifts I've [62:49] brought for you today this is some soap [62:51] for you this is soap Uranus soap it's [62:53] Uranus soap so you want to keep Uranus [62:55] clean [62:56] um thank you so much in all seriousness [62:59] uh there's no evidence for [63:00] aliens there's no there's what's I call [63:04] possibility does not equal probability [63:07] the existence of so many stars in the [63:09] universe means there's so many planets [63:10] which is true we found almost every [63:12] single star has maybe 10 planets around [63:14] it and we have a 100 billion in our [63:16] galaxy alone there's a 100 billion [63:18] galaxies in our universe we're talking a [63:21] one with 24 zeros after it that's how [63:24] many planets there are in the observable [63:26] universe planets planets people say that [63:29] means that it's got to be life in the [63:31] universe no it doesn't mean anything [63:33] there could be uh so many hurdles for [63:36] life to get started let alone to create [63:38] complex technology producing life like [63:40] us that we're essentially we're it and [63:44] I'm not saying we are it but I'm saying [63:45] there's been [63:48] 0.00% evidence that life exists beyond [63:50] the earth I know you've had Lou alzando [63:52] on U the claims that he's making are [63:55] controversial they're not scientific [63:57] they're government I'm not dismissing [63:59] his experiences of people he talks about [64:01] they're not persuasive they're not [64:03] addressing fundamental characteristics [64:06] the universe is vaster than you or I can [64:09] comprehend you know if this was our [64:11] solar system the nearest star would be [64:13] like near in San Diego there's almost no [64:16] way for us to comprehend how enormous [64:18] our solar our universe is let alone how [64:21] vast the cosmos is how much of it can we [64:23] see we can see technically we can see a [64:26] lot of the universe but most of that is [64:29] way before even molecules formed in [64:31] other words there's no possibility of [64:32] life let's restrict ourselves to the [64:34] Milky Way galaxy which is the only [64:36] Galaxy we'll ever be able to explore Etc [64:38] at least unless we invent Wormhole [64:40] travel like Interstellar uh but but for [64:43] now we have sent probes the farthest [64:45] probe we've ever sent was launched in [64:47] 1977 it's one light day away from the [64:52] earth okay so that means traveling at [64:54] the speed of light the fastest speed [64:56] possible which is how much miles an hour [64:57] 186,000 m per second 300,000 km per [65:00] second it's only quote it's only gone [65:03] one light day away the nearest star is [65:07] 1,200 times farther away than that it's [65:09] four light years away so it'll never get [65:12] to that other star I mean it took and it [65:14] took 50 years to get one light day so it [65:16] need 1,200 times 50 years call it 100 so [65:19] you're talking like vast numbers of of [65:21] Millennia to get to the nearest star and [65:23] that star we don't even know if it has [65:25] on it or not and it's not actually going [65:27] to that star but the point is the UN the [65:29] Galaxy itself is so large and the types [65:32] of environments in which life can take [65:34] hold are so so precarious it's it's [65:37] actually we we tell ourselves a story [65:39] like you said with molecules and then [65:40] they start to evolve and then they get [65:42] it's it's really not known how life got [65:45] created it's not known how life came [65:47] from non-living material from hydrogen [65:50] helium oxygen how that turned into a [65:53] cell it's a it's a vast Challen [65:55] challenge in what's called organic uh [65:57] synthetic organic chemistry and the [65:58] formation origin of Life uh and then to [66:01] say that those entities then evolved [66:04] into some kind of technologically [66:06] produced know if we found a dinosaur on [66:08] Mars that would be the the discovery of [66:10] the of the UN of the history of the [66:12] planet of of all time right a or [66:15] whatever even a bacterium on Mars there [66:17] would be an incredible Discovery so some [66:20] people try to defeat this notion and say [66:22] well life didn't have to necessarily uh [66:26] get started in all these planets it [66:27] could have started once and then get [66:29] brought to those other planets through [66:32] meteorites yeah this was actually [66:34] created this theory was created by the [66:36] same Fred Hoy who came up with the Big [66:37] Bang Theory they called it panspermia [66:40] sounds dirty but it's not so these [66:42] meteorites could carry genetic material [66:45] and they could land on another planet [66:47] they could have landed on Earth that's [66:49] one theory that life on Earth originated [66:52] from another planet that had life on it [66:55] and in fact this is one of your lovely [66:57] pardon gifts um this is what Elon will [67:02] kill for I'm going to give you something [67:04] that Elon doesn't have this is a piece [67:07] of [67:08] Mars This is a real piece of Mars it's [67:11] 1.52 four gram of another planet I want [67:15] you to touch it you can see it's a [67:17] little bit reddish like the planet Mars [67:20] This is much better than the butt soap [67:22] you gave me I gave you a piece of Uranus [67:24] and a piece of Mars [67:26] here's some information about it I give [67:27] out as I said these meteorites on my [67:29] website Brian king.com to Lucky winners [67:32] each month and I give out the [67:33] information this was found in [67:35] Africa and how did it get here well a [67:39] meteorite hit the planet Mars shattered [67:43] off debris that debris orbited around [67:47] Mars for millions of years perhaps [67:49] eventually had plowed into the Earth and [67:52] landed in Africa they found it they said [67:57] this they knew it came from space they [67:59] analyzed it it has the same chemical [68:01] composition molecular structure as the [68:04] Landers that are on Mars right now [68:06] measure for Mars so we know 100% that's [68:09] for Mars it's incredible so Elon is [68:12] desperately trying to get there that's [68:14] your little piece please than keep it [68:16] keep it safe and that's one way that [68:20] life could have gotten to Mars from the [68:22] Earth right the same thing happens on [68:24] the earth as happened to Mars so it [68:26] could have hit uh Earth blasted off um [68:29] some amibas some orcas some kangaroo [68:32] whatever and whatever was on the earth [68:34] at the time and then eventually landed [68:36] on Mars with the DNA of it but it didn't [68:38] take hold right so planets exchange DNA [68:42] it is possible but we don't see Life on [68:44] Mars if we think about this table yeah [68:47] um give to put in context how big the [68:49] universe is if the universe was the size [68:51] of this table how big would Earth be on [68:53] this table uh incomprehensive sensibly [68:55] small not even a grain of sand no no not [68:58] far far [68:59] small fraction Even in our galaxy it [69:01] wouldn't be a grain of sand even if this [69:03] were our galaxy wouldn't be a grain of [69:04] sand no no no our solar our whole solar [69:07] system would be perhaps yes one grain of [69:10] sand If This Were a Milky Way galaxy [69:12] which is 100,000 light years across it [69:15] would be like one tiny little grain of [69:17] sand what would be of the solar system [69:19] out to the planet Neptune so the what's [69:22] that 10 planets what something well we [69:23] have uh there's eight planets in our [69:25] solar system including the Earth used to [69:26] be nine but Pluto is no longer a planet [69:28] um so and we're about onethird of the [69:30] way from the edge of the disc of the [69:31] Milky Way so traveling all across there [69:34] yes we would be perhaps the entire solar [69:36] system actually smaller than maybe half [69:38] a grain of sand and can we travel to the [69:40] end of the solar system well we sent uh [69:42] this object it's gone well beyond it so [69:44] the edge of the solar system is about [69:45] four light hours so we in 50 years [69:48] Stephen we've only gone quote and I'm [69:50] not D this is a historic accomplishment [69:53] we actually put on these on these [69:54] spacecrafts [69:56] um digitize pictures of human life of [69:59] voices of songs from every continent of [70:02] culture of recipes of laughter of [70:04] children crying of babies they put this [70:06] called the Golden Disc Carl Sean was [70:09] responsible for this and they mounted it [70:11] to it and it's now uh well as I said 24 [70:13] light hours away and the farthest edge [70:16] of our solar system the planet Neptune [70:18] is is four light hours sorry 24 light [70:21] hours is the Voyager spacecraft so we've [70:22] only gone one six of we've gone only six [70:25] times the diameter of our solar system [70:26] so our entire solar system would be a [70:28] grain of sand on this table less even [70:30] yeah about half a grain yeah half a [70:31] grain of sand on this this table this [70:33] table is about 2 and a half met roughly [70:35] big and how many tables are there that's [70:38] a very good question we think at least [70:41] 100 billion [70:42] tables each one with 100 billion grains [70:45] of sand there are more there are more [70:48] grains uh sorry there more stars in the [70:52] entire universe that we can observe than [70:55] every grain of sand on every Beach on [70:59] every continent on our [71:01] planet that's really wobbled in my head [71:04] so there's our entire solar system is [71:08] half of grain of sand on this sort of 2 [71:09] three meter Table and there are a [71:11] hundred billion tables so you know when [71:15] you hear that you go okay we really [71:16] don't matter like we're really it's it's [71:18] so bizarre that we've fallen into the [71:20] Trap of believing that we're like [71:21] important in any way and then that for [71:24] me that even throws another Market [71:25] towards religion but the other thing it [71:27] makes me go is [71:29] surely there's got to be some other life [71:33] on one of these grains of sands on the [71:35] hundred billion [71:36] tables again the well let me just [71:39] address the first thing so um you're uh [71:42] about 10 [71:45] maybe 15 trillion times bigger than a [71:47] virus or [71:49] bacteria um can that bacteria affect you [71:52] or a virus hurt you of course it can so [71:55] size doesn't really make that big a [71:56] difference in this context right Jupiter [71:59] is a 100 times you know bigger in [72:02] diameter than the earth does it make it [72:04] more important I think the Earth is much [72:05] more important I like the earth a lot [72:06] better um the sun is a hundred times [72:08] bigger than Jupiter like would you like [72:10] to live there so the point I'm trying to [72:12] make is size isn't really that important [72:14] numberers not really that important and [72:16] remember don't ever forget we're the [72:19] only conscious you know entity that we [72:22] know about in the universe right there's [72:24] there's literally 70 different types of [72:26] of primates right like monkeys you [72:28] talked about before a bonobos arut none [72:31] of them have what we have none of them [72:33] can have this probabilistically let me [72:36] give you an example uh I've been to [72:38] Antarctica twice for bicep experiments [72:41] when I go there Antarctica is the [72:43] seventh continent to be discovered on [72:45] Earth it's approximately 12% of the land [72:48] mass of the Earth it's a huge enormous [72:51] continent with extreme mountains weather [72:54] uh extreme cold but one thing it doesn't [72:55] have as much life but if you did that [72:58] same thing I said look Stephen there's [72:59] this continent you could hardly walk [73:01] across it in you know five or six years [73:04] even if you're a great athlete you know [73:05] people do it but you it would be very [73:07] challenging to do it um it's enormous [73:09] it's got all the support for life it's [73:11] got um hydrocarbons it's got heat it's [73:14] got um rocks you can build shelter you [73:16] can have water which the most important [73:18] thing how much life do you think is [73:19] there let me just tell you Stephen [73:20] there's uh it makes up 13% of the [73:22] Earth's surface there's 8 billion people [73:24] on Earth how many how many people do you [73:25] think live there I mean as a scientist [73:27] you don't have to be a scientist you say [73:29] I think there's probably you know maybe [73:30] 800 million people there there's zero [73:32] people there basically so just the [73:34] probability I'm not saying it's [73:36] impossible probability is not determined [73:39] by [73:40] possibility because the the thing with [73:42] the South Pole is okay so there's no one [73:44] there and if if you put me there and [73:45] said is there life and I got a telescope [73:47] out and I looked around I'd go there's [73:48] no life here I can't see anything I [73:50] think I'd say I'm the only the only [73:52] person here and then i' opposit meaning [73:54] to myself I'd say I must be really [73:55] important I might think that I'm a God [73:57] if if I'm the only life there I'd look [73:59] around I for miles and I'd walk for days [74:01] and days and days and send out pigeons [74:03] and whatever and I go there's no one [74:05] it's just me but then little do I know [74:08] that although this little space is [74:09] inhabitable if you go get on a plane and [74:11] go a little bit further you get to the [74:14] land of the free right but what if we [74:16] can't do that what if there's no plane [74:17] what if there's nothing what if this is [74:19] all we have I think that a lot of the [74:22] sightings and stuff I've interviewed the [74:24] top fighter pilot [74:25] um you know in the world that claim to [74:27] have witnessed these encounters um I've [74:29] um you know interviewed the top you know [74:33] people that claim these things exist [74:34] I've interviewed AI lob he's a good [74:36] friend at Harvard who runs a project he [74:38] claims he's discovered material from uh [74:40] Interstellar you know technology perhaps [74:43] like a Garbage barge that was floating [74:45] throughout friend he's a very eminent [74:47] scientist at no point do I ever [74:50] understand the fundamental answer to the [74:53] question how did they get here [74:56] what properties what physics properties [74:58] do they use you know they always say oh [74:59] well they defy the laws of physics well [75:01] I'm a physicist you know I can [75:02] understand some of the most deep physics [75:04] you want um and by the way there are [75:06] many times in history where if I showed [75:08] you something that was made by the US [75:11] government you would say that is [75:12] witchcraft magic like the iPad thing you [75:15] said iPad is just one thing you know [75:17] that in the movie 2001 in Space Odyssey [75:19] do you know the by the way I have to [75:20] tell you this uh if you don't know the [75:22] word podcast do you know that comes from [75:24] the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey oh yeah I [75:27] read the article for it was a yeah it [75:29] was an engineer at uh at uh who called [75:32] it an iPod and the iPod came from the [75:34] pod in 2001 so we owe podcast to 200 so [75:38] in that movie there are iPads they're [75:40] guys communicating with iPad but they [75:42] thought it was like technology of like [75:44] 20 centuries from now no I'm talking [75:46] about the technology it would take to [75:49] make [75:50] traversable distances out of this [75:53] incomprehensible Cosmos that talked [75:55] about when you apply that thinking to [75:57] God it changes though because earlier [76:00] you said we just can't fathom mhm we [76:02] can't fathom this Creator and the [76:05] factors that would go into this Creator [76:06] so we almost have to you know some [76:08] people just choose to believe right yeah [76:10] and the same can be applied to this [76:11] thinking of how they got here was like [76:13] listen Maybe we don't know their [76:14] technology because it's just [76:15] unfathomable like the iPod or the iPad [76:17] was 100 years ago you're absolutely [76:20] right so if they're just a hundred years [76:21] ahead of us technologically we would [76:22] think that they were doing witchcraft we [76:24] would we wouldn't understand the basis [76:25] of the technology that they used to [76:26] travel here sure but uh people like Lou [76:29] will talk about things that are exactly [76:32] um scientific claims one of the things [76:34] in his book uh which I read he he hasn't [76:36] come on my podcast I'd like to talk to [76:38] him but um he talks about these these [76:40] craft and and the properties of them and [76:42] how when you're inside of them they're [76:44] bigger than they are when you're outside [76:46] of them um and how they affect and they [76:49] they interact with human biology and [76:51] cause Burns and and so forth and the [76:53] technology he's talking about it's not [76:56] like some fifth force that I don't know [76:58] about it's using the properties of of [77:01] general relativity of SpaceTime uh we do [77:04] know enough about these things whereas [77:06] God you're right I'm not I'm not being [77:08] um so so critical maybe when it comes to [77:10] this notion of God but remember I said I [77:12] don't I don't have to say I believe in [77:14] gravity or in string theory or whatever [77:17] we can have evidence for it so when they [77:19] make claims that have to do with physics [77:21] they should be tested by the laws of [77:22] physics when you talk about God saying [77:25] I'm stipulating you can't test those [77:27] with law with laws and therefore I can't [77:29] prove God exist despite how much I would [77:31] like to or not like to so what do you [77:32] think the probability is that we are [77:35] alone do you think we're alone in the [77:37] universe I think it's very high you [77:40] think it's high I think it's very high [77:41] that we're alone let me make an analogy [77:44] um for us to be here we Earth had to [77:48] have the following circumstances happen [77:50] we had to have can you pass me the Moon [77:52] the Moon yeah and actually can you pass [77:55] the there's a globe behind you love to [77:58] have that [78:01] perfect okay so I put here a globe and I [78:06] put here the moon and these are almost [78:07] an exact ratio of size this is about how [78:10] big the Moon is compared to the earth [78:11] now originally before the moon didn't [78:14] exist when the Earth was was first [78:15] formed the the Earth condensed out of a [78:18] giant version of trillions and trillions [78:20] and trillions of tons of these [78:22] meteoritic materials they sank to the [78:24] bottom made the core of the earth the [78:25] earth earth's core is made of iron [78:27] heavier lighter elements like carbon [78:29] nitrogen oxygen they kind of accreted [78:31] onto it and eventually this super planet [78:33] formed and that planet or the the early [78:37] Earth was called Thea and it was called [78:39] that because eventually there was a [78:40] planet the size of that give me that [78:42] beach ball please Ste a planet about [78:44] this size maybe a little bit smaller [78:46] just for people that are AR watching [78:48] yeah so there's a beach ball that's a [78:49] little bit smaller than the globe that [78:51] we're looking at it impacted this early [78:53] Eartha blasted out material into the [78:56] solar system and over millions and [78:59] millions of years some of that material [79:01] condensed and formed the Moon the Moon [79:03] and then the Earth formed as we know it [79:05] today uh now the Moon is 250,000 miles [79:09] away from the earth it's exactly at the [79:11] right place in size that we have tides [79:13] on the earth we have ocean tides four [79:15] times a day so right now I'm showing [79:17] where high tide would be say where this [79:18] part of the moon's uh gravity is pulling [79:20] on the ocean here so it rises it up that [79:22] means that some of the tides on the [79:24] other side are also also high tide and [79:25] then right angles low tide low tide oh [79:27] so that's how the tides work basically [79:29] wherever the Moon is it's pulling the [79:31] ocean up yeah it's actually pulling the [79:33] Earth and the Earth is surrounded by [79:34] this this this sphere of water and so it [79:37] slash that moves the Earth within that [79:38] water and the water gets turned into [79:40] like a lazen shape so the High Tides [79:42] will be twice a day and the low tides [79:44] will be twice a day right angles to them [79:47] so that happens and we believe that that [79:49] process is what was necessary to make [79:51] the materials from the ocean is where [79:53] life started and eventually get that on [79:54] land and fertilize and make people [79:56] eventually okay so remember I'm trying [79:57] to explain how we got here so there had [79:59] to be this enormous Collision from an a [80:01] pre-existing object in our solar system [80:03] to create the Moon and the Earth as we [80:05] know them now but that wasn't enough [80:08] then there had to be these [80:10] giant icebergs called comets comets [80:14] bombard the Earth over periods of [80:17] millions of years the Comets brought the [80:19] ocean bearing material that brought [80:21] water to the Earth's surface and [80:23] minerals and so forth to the Earth's [80:24] surface [80:25] eventually the Earth cooled down and [80:27] those oceans covered about 70% of the [80:29] earth's surface is covered by ocean as [80:30] shown here so that comment had to occur [80:33] that bombardment and the and the um the [80:36] fertilization of water or providing of [80:38] water hydration of the earth came [80:40] courtesy of comets then lastly for us to [80:43] be here These Guys these are dinosaurs [80:45] here I brought a actual representation [80:48] of dinosaurs dinosaurs were roaming the [80:50] Earth we know that right uh 65 million [80:52] years ago an asteroid about this size [80:56] which is about an inch [80:58] across hit the Earth traveling [81:01] 250,000 uh miles per hour something like [81:04] that hit it near uh Mexico in the [81:07] Yucatan Peninsula right here created [81:09] this enormous Devastation this crater [81:11] that obliterated the atmosphere filled [81:15] the atmosphere with pollution and and [81:16] basically made like nuclear winter like [81:18] you and Annie talked about and that cut [81:20] off light to uh plants and eventually [81:23] the Dinosaurs most of the Dinosaurs all [81:24] the dinosaurs died now that allowed [81:27] mammals the first mammals were little [81:29] tiny rodents rats right and I believe [81:32] all evolution is true right so those [81:34] little rats then eventually evolved and [81:36] made whales and people and and bats and [81:38] all sorts of cool stuff and eventually [81:40] we came from that so I've described to [81:42] you three very important bombardments of [81:46] the Earth One Earth's Moon form from a [81:49] huge Collision two comets bombard the [81:51] Earth flooding it with water just the [81:53] right amount not too much not too little [81:55] is perfect and three a meteor kills off [81:58] the dinosaurs if any of those came in a [82:01] different order we would likely not be [82:03] here so not only do they occur three [82:06] incredibly improbable things that she [82:08] would never predict would occur in that [82:10] order happen to occur and they happen to [82:13] occur in the right order the first two [82:14] created life though right say again it [82:16] was the first two of those three that [82:17] created life potent allowed for life to [82:20] exist yes you're right but remember I'm [82:21] trying to explain how doac occurs right [82:24] for us to be here if there dinosaurs [82:26] here if the dinosaurs had a space [82:28] program you know where they could zap [82:29] away with a laser and they could deflect [82:31] the asteroid they would have done it and [82:32] we wouldn't be here likely okay so [82:35] you're right but let's say those events [82:36] occurred in a different in a different [82:38] uh pattern the small asteroid hit the [82:40] Earth First nothing happens there's no [82:41] dinosaurs to kill uh then the Comets [82:43] come in flood the Earth with ocean but [82:45] then this huge uh you know uh this Thea [82:48] hits the the Earth forms into its Moon [82:51] that would have boiled off all the ocean [82:53] as well so we wouldn't have any water [82:55] there for life to exist on and then the [82:57] dinosaurs wouldn't even need to exist so [82:59] those are just three things Stephen by [83:01] the way we have also the planet Jupiter [83:02] I talked about before Galileo discovered [83:04] its moons Jupiter is like a bodyguard it [83:07] protects the Earth from almost every [83:09] major deadly impact the Moon is also [83:11] like a bodyguard see all the craters on [83:13] this Moon that my son 3D printed he's [83:15] proud to show it to you yeah these are [83:17] death strikes that could have taken out [83:18] the earth look how big some of them are [83:19] they're as big as the Earth as the [83:21] dinosaur killing meteorite in some cases [83:23] so we have all these conditions now I've [83:26] only named five or six imagine each one [83:29] of the five or six only occurs with a [83:31] probability of one in 10,000 one part [83:34] and 10 to the 4th well guess what [83:36] happens you take 10 one in 10,000 [83:38] multiply by 1 in 10,000 1 in 10,000 6 [83:40] times to say that you get a number [83:43] that's smaller than the number of [83:44] planets in the [83:46] universe in other words the probability [83:48] of all just those six things I think [83:50] there's trillions of things how life [83:51] formed the cell formed the chemistry the [83:53] biology and and the culture whatever all [83:56] those things that form to make us [83:57] technological I think the probability is [83:59] is extremely small which is why I said I [84:02] think the probability is low that we are [84:06] that there are other life forms or in [84:07] another way to say it I think it's very [84:08] high that we are alone and that might be [84:11] for a reason you know there might be [84:13] some reason maybe we're meant to really [84:15] take care of Earth maybe we're meant to [84:17] really appreciate the blessings of what [84:19] we have on Earth if you're an [84:21] entrepreneur you're probably going to [84:22] want to listen to this it's a message [84:23] from one of our sponsors on this podcast [84:25] which is LinkedIn if you've listened to [84:27] me on this podcast for a while now [84:29] you'll know that I've been on a bit of [84:30] an evolution as a business owner and [84:32] entrepreneur and one of those Evolutions [84:33] that has become clearer and clearer as [84:35] I've matured is that the single most [84:37] important thing in building a business [84:39] in building a company is hiring the [84:43] definition of the word company is [84:44] actually group of people and that is the [84:47] first responsibility and job that any [84:49] entrepreneur has and should focus on but [84:52] surprisingly most don't about 80 % of my [84:55] team have been hired from LinkedIn and I [84:56] think there's very few 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to dump me or I'm gonna do well [86:33] on bitcoin is there anything uh no there [86:37] there's there's no evidence for it in [86:39] the sense that you can do randomized [86:41] control trials or double blind surveys [86:44] you can do exact simulations as I said [86:46] it the the theory that the position of [86:48] Jupiter at the moment that you were born [86:51] can literally be replicated there's [86:53] something like a million people born [86:54] every day and then at the exact same [86:56] time there's probably you 14,000 or what [86:59] you know you could do the math and [87:00] figure it out um for them all to have [87:03] for no person to ever have you know sort [87:06] of duplication of luck or circumstance [87:08] the the effect in terms of physical [87:11] forces the gravity of Jupiter the the [87:13] pull of of the Sun the position of the [87:16] Earth in the day you were born now there [87:18] are correlation effects right so you [87:20] have to be careful not to confuse [87:21] correlation with causation right so some [87:24] I'm actually born on the most um [87:26] frequently frequent birthday uh on all [87:28] the calendar September 9th now what is [87:31] septe September 9th is about nine months [87:33] after the holiday season right so in a [87:35] western culture you know women are party [87:37] maybe my mom and my dad had a nice you [87:39] know New Year's Eve or Christmas party [87:40] or whatever and that's led to me being [87:43] here right so there are correlation and [87:44] then that so that means that there's a [87:46] lot of people that are Virgos born on [87:47] September 9th none of which are like me [87:49] or in the southern hemisphere versus the [87:51] Northern Hemisphere a woman who has [87:53] gestation during the summer might feel [87:55] differently than if she's gestating [87:57] during the winter even though the babies [87:58] are born at the same day right they're [88:00] just born on opposite sides of the earth [88:01] so they will have very different [88:03] personalities whereas astrology says [88:05] they should be the [88:07] same it's interesting because people [88:09] will especially people that are precious [88:11] about horoscopes and astrology and those [88:14] kinds of things will [88:15] say I have just as much evidence for my [88:18] thing as you do for your thing like they [88:20] because they they almost consider it to [88:21] be a religious belief the people that I [88:23] know literally some people have designed [88:25] their entire lives and the meaning of [88:27] their life around meaning that they're [88:29] finding out in by looking up at the [88:31] stars how's it different from religion [88:34] astrology um there are elements of [88:36] religion yeah certainly It came it came [88:38] out of religion I don't think people now [88:39] worship you know constellations or I [88:41] don't think there's many major religions [88:43] that are based on astrological you know [88:46] contemplation but maybe without the [88:47] worship part but they they're seeking [88:49] guidance in their lives they're getting [88:51] answers from the Stars they're making [88:54] decisions based on it much of their [88:56] moral compass is being determined like M [88:58] much of their um yeah much of their [89:01] morals and ethics and decisions and [89:03] behaviors are being determined by by it [89:05] in the same way that it's being [89:07] determined by someone that believes in a [89:09] God yeah it's hard to you know it's I'm [89:12] a wrong person ask some why why do [89:14] people need this people need answers to [89:17] to to contemplate the universe first of [89:20] all it's a scary Universe right we we we [89:23] confronted by things that none none of [89:25] us can understand entirety of uh no [89:28] brightest Nobel Prize winners the the [89:30] greatest scientists the greatest [89:31] thinkers can't really contemplate it so [89:33] we we go through life we try to make the [89:35] best of it but we also have this sense [89:37] of self and this theory of self the [89:39] theory of mind that you know we can [89:41] relate to other people and we want [89:43] answers we want and I think that is in [89:45] common I think you're right religion is [89:47] very I almost wish I did you ever wish [89:49] that you were more religious I mean yeah [89:52] I wish I was too and I'm not and I [89:54] hopefully my kids won't hear no I heard [89:56] from a psychologist once he said you [89:57] should Endeavor in your life that you [90:01] pass on only half of your Neurosis to [90:03] your kids Neurosis um crazy anxieties [90:06] fears weird pathology you know [90:08] psychological [90:10] deficiencies because if every parent did [90:12] that you know the species is going to [90:13] get better and better but if you keep [90:15] making everyone as anxious as nervous [90:16] and there's no progress in history a lot [90:18] of the zodiac religions that you talked [90:20] about or astrological religions they [90:22] view time as a as a circle in other [90:25] words a flat circle a spiral goes into [90:28] the future that's Western Civilization [90:30] that's progress in science that's [90:31] forward moving to the Stars to wherever [90:34] we're going to go and more and more [90:35] human knowledge and flourishing but if [90:37] you just say I'm committed to I'm going [90:39] to be repeating every year on the [90:41] birthday I'm going to be repeating what [90:43] all that my ancestors did that's very [90:45] depressing and it doesn't lead to [90:46] Innovation to find cures for diseases to [90:48] find explanations for fields and forces [90:50] and technology that we have so what is [90:53] the what the meaning of life ah glad you [90:56] asked um to [90:58] me the meaning of life is to do as many [91:03] things that if taken away from you would [91:07] be devastating to [91:09] you that which you do should be so [91:13] consequential that to not have done it [91:16] or not have it would literally destroy [91:20] you to your core for me it's my kids [91:23] those connections the the bonds the the [91:25] the hopefulness for the future I never [91:27] said this Stephen [91:30] but I don't get too emotional but I [91:33] think about death a lot more you know [91:35] especially in my case since October 7th [91:38] last year A lot of my friends and family [91:40] were impacted by that in Israel and it's [91:43] I've never cried so many times than I [91:45] have in the past year but thinking about [91:48] all those you know kind of tears and and [91:51] emotions and saying do I wish I never f [91:54] that do I wish I didn't have the pain if [91:57] I meant I didn't have the joy of having [92:00] those people in my life and I'm not [92:02] ready to die I'm hopefully you know [92:04] maybe middle age I don't know I don't [92:05] know if I live to 104 but hopefully you [92:08] know maybe I [92:09] will but I've done a lot in my life I've [92:14] done things that you know I didn't think [92:16] I could do when I was a kid I've married [92:19] the love of my life I've brought [92:21] incredible Souls into the world if I did [92:24] die I'm not scared I don't want to I'm [92:28] working on my body I'm working on my [92:30] diet I'm trying to do what's right for [92:31] me and so I can be her as long as [92:34] possible but the meaning of life is [92:36] making connections it's making these [92:39] bonds such that you [92:42] know you hope that people will be sad [92:45] devastated even when you're gone so too [92:48] the connections that I've made I can't [92:50] see my life without them I don't want to [92:53] I don't think think about it it's morbid [92:56] to me it's make those connections while [92:58] you can not I mean when I listen to that [93:00] episode that you did with Annie Jacobs [93:03] it's terrifying right and you were like [93:05] visibly scared in that episode she's [93:08] amazing we don't know I mean God forbid [93:10] I don't think it's super as likely maybe [93:12] as she maybe it is maybe it isn't maybe [93:14] I'm na but the point is we don't know [93:17] the point is we're here now the point is [93:19] we might be alone but that should fill [93:22] us with meaning to do what we can do [93:24] uniquely [93:25] so before you had [93:28] kids what was the meaning of your [93:31] life uh it was very easy I wanted to win [93:34] a Nobel Prize and that's changed now it [93:37] has it has uh partially because my [93:40] father was a great scientist I want to [93:42] show him up he never won a Nobel Prize [93:44] he won a lot of awards I want to show [93:45] him up now he's dead you know there's no [93:48] one to prove stuff to you know you [93:50] should live life to impress yourself and [93:52] I feel like yeah if they gave me the [93:54] Nobel Prize if someday I would Merit it [93:56] with my team of these brilliant [93:58] scientists just that's pretty unlikely [94:00] but let's say it happened it doesn't it [94:02] doesn't mean what it once meant to me [94:05] when I was your age when it when when I [94:07] was your age it wasn't Idol to me it was [94:10] a God Like You Win it you're as close to [94:13] Scientific royalty and Godlike status as [94:16] possible to imagine much more than Oscar [94:19] gold medal in the Olympics it is every [94:21] there's only 200 or so I've ever won it [94:24] it's like a small book and actually I've [94:26] talked to people that have won it [94:27] actually the forward to the my second [94:29] book into the apostles was written by [94:30] Barry barish he won the 2017 Nobel Prize [94:33] he told me Brian um because I always ask [94:36] my final question I know we're getting [94:37] to the end here like your final question [94:40] I learned from you I have my own final [94:41] question it's um if you could go back in [94:45] the past and meet your 20-year-old self [94:47] what would you say to him to give him [94:49] the courage to do as you've done to go [94:51] into the impossible and he said to me [94:53] Brian I would say to stop having the [94:56] impostor syndrome and I said well you [94:58] know yeah you just tell me you won the [94:59] Nobel Prize and he won't no no no I have [95:02] the impostor syndrome now said Barry [95:05] you're kidding me you won the Nobel [95:07] Prize how could you possibly have [95:09] impostor syndrome he said Brian let me [95:12] tell you something when you win a Nobel [95:14] Prize you go to Stockholm you meet the [95:15] king of Sweden they give you this buffet [95:17] dinner you're dressed in white tie not [95:20] Black Tie white tie you get this huge [95:23] gold medal solid gold you get a million [95:26] dollars [95:27] possibly and they want to make sure [95:29] you're not going to come back and say [95:30] hey uh Gustav there uh where's my money [95:34] where's my so they make you sign a [95:35] ledger not unlike The Ledger in front of [95:37] you and it has your signature I Barry [95:41] bars received the Nobel Prize and Barry [95:43] said I took that book the first thing I [95:45] did is I turned the P who won it last [95:46] year who won it the year before who [95:47] wanted I saw Richard Fineman I saw Marie [95:50] curee I saw Albert Einstein [95:54] he said I don't deserve to be in the [95:56] same universe as Albert Einstein let [95:59] alone in the same book how could they [96:01] give the same prize to me they gave to [96:02] him and I realized this was like an idol [96:05] to him too I said Barry I've got good [96:07] news for you Albert Einstein had the [96:10] impostor syndrome he's like you're [96:12] kidding me I said no no no Barry he had [96:15] the impostor syndrome and his hero was [96:18] Isaac Newton Einstein said Isaac Newton [96:21] did more for Science and Western [96:24] Civilization than any human being before [96:26] or since that's a pretty tall order How [96:29] Could Einstein live up to that but I [96:31] said Barry go one step deeper Isaac [96:34] Newton had the impostor syndrome what [96:37] the heck how could he he's a greatest [96:39] might invented calculus discovered the [96:42] laws of universal gravitation the [96:44] principles of Optics invented this [96:46] telescope no no no he felt wholly [96:50] entirely Unworthy of his hero Jesus [96:54] Christ so much so Stephen that he [96:57] attempted to do the same thing that [97:00] Jesus Christ did he knew he couldn't [97:01] work miracles he knew he couldn't walk [97:03] on water and turn loaves into fishes but [97:05] he could do it was in some sense a [97:08] greater struggle which was to die a [97:09] virgin as Jesus did and so he did so the [97:14] lesson [97:16] is impostor syndroms normal don't don't [97:19] idolize something literally get a Graven [97:22] golden image of a man who who cares he's [97:23] a man I don't care I I take time home [97:27] with my family over that on a Shabbat as [97:30] I invite you down to come to me in San [97:32] Diego anytime you [97:34] want I didn't realize that all of these [97:36] great individuals felt like imposters [97:38] themselves which is um I think will [97:40] liberate a lot of people from the way [97:42] that they feel I mean we I feel this [97:44] every day like people int introduce me [97:46] on stage as like an interview or a [97:47] podcast I'm like what the just was [97:49] never conceivable to me and I know [97:51] Jack's talked about the same thing like [97:52] it's never conce able to me that I'd be [97:54] doing a podcast and it' be big and that [97:56] people would think you're good at it in [97:57] some way for some bizarre reason no [97:59] you're not just good Stephen come on [98:00] you're an elite level you're a no PR [98:02] what is that what is that though I mean [98:04] and how did that happen I didn't go to [98:05] school for that I just sat here and [98:06] started asking people questions in my [98:07] kitchen and then more people tuned in [98:09] and they said you're good at it I'm like [98:11] what what does good mean I don't do it [98:12] the same as Rogan and Rogan's good at it [98:14] and huberman's good at it I've been with [98:16] them all look you're you have a unique [98:18] angle that that is not rep replicable [98:22] but I want to leave you with the mission [98:23] that kind of has guided me and again [98:25] I've learned a lot from you for you know [98:27] it's no secret I have the high energy [98:28] opening to the into the can you imagine [98:30] how hard it is to take like someone who [98:32] studied like some chemical pathway and [98:33] some thermodynamic system to make it [98:35] like the hype show that you guys open [98:37] each epe with I learned that from you [98:39] but Carl Sean said what an amazing thing [98:42] a book is in it you have the words of a [98:46] long dead author and you're reading it [98:49] to yourself and he or she is [98:51] communicating with you across the ages [98:53] nowadays people millions of people have [98:56] you in their ears and you're [98:57] communicating potentially across the [98:59] generations and you're again I don't [99:01] want to keep be you know be like a [99:02] Jewish mother but your kids your your [99:05] grandkids they're going to have access [99:07] to this it's not going to be some some [99:08] even a book which is wonderful but it's [99:11] going to be visceral Audible and it's [99:14] going to have an impact you can't even [99:15] imagine right [99:16] now creep me out I'm like wow the [99:20] meteors didn't do it [99:23] crazy to think about the the impact and [99:25] the lasting impact that this [99:27] medium might have because of the [99:29] internet but just even I mean even books [99:31] now the books are turned into audio [99:33] books into digital books and such um [99:35] look at this the last election this was [99:36] like the podcast election right not [99:38] going on a podcast going on a podcast um [99:42] and and there are many people that [99:44] attempt to imitate what you do and and [99:46] you know it it's it's I I don't do it [99:48] for money I don't do it it's not my [99:49] career I do it for fun because I want to [99:51] give back to to Young people the way [99:54] that I learned from Carl San or Isaac [99:57] azimoff I read their books it inspired [99:59] to me to be a scientist when Co hit in [100:01] 2020 they couldn't do book tours and so [100:03] I invited all my scientist friends to [100:05] come on I had some Nobel Prize winners [100:07] come on and it just keeps amplifying but [100:09] I view it as you know for me it's a it's [100:10] a passion project but it's a way of [100:12] giving back returning to the community [100:14] from whom I've taken so much I've [100:16] learned so much with that in mind with [100:18] this knowledge that what we're creating [100:20] what all of us are creating whether you [100:21] have a podcast or not or you're just [100:22] writing on the internet whatever it [100:24] might be with the knowledge that it's [100:26] going to sustain and it's going to be [100:28] here potentially in many generations to [100:29] come how does that how is that supposed [100:31] to change how someone creates because [100:34] I'm thinking you just said that to me I [100:35] was like Jesus Christ that's quite [100:36] profound but then seconds later I was [100:39] like almost like the simulation Theory I [100:41] just thought it crack on do you [100:43] know what I mean just carry on with what [100:44] you're doing because if you can you can [100:46] get too deep into it that you can either [100:48] distract yourself or ruin yourself from [100:50] the essence of what makes the thing [100:52] special so am I meant to Chang in any [100:53] way with that knowledge I think you I [100:55] think you are I think you're doing it [100:56] already I mean you've spoken again I've [100:58] you know try to study the the the [101:00] glimpses of of morsels that I can [101:02] comprehend the experimentation process [101:05] is a process of fundamentally being [101:06] dissatisfied with the current product [101:08] even though it's wonderful and it's [101:09] great it's top top you know leading in [101:11] its category but still just not being [101:12] satisfied you always want to make it a [101:14] little bit better see what works see [101:15] what doesn't work that's pleasurable [101:16] because you even when you get a failed [101:18] there's no such thing as a failed [101:19] experiment I tell my students you always [101:21] learn something and that brings you [101:22] closer to truth and that's what is so [101:24] meaningful what I was wondering what I [101:26] thought you were going to say is like [101:27] when you're out in public and people see [101:29] you and I asked this of Lex and Joe I [101:31] want to ask you to has put on my podcast [101:33] or how turn the microphone to you um [101:36] there's a there's a scene in the book [101:38] Animal Farm um where there's this donkey [101:40] named Benjamin and he's talking to the [101:42] pig um and the pig says to the donkey um [101:46] you know I love your tail it's so big I [101:48] got this short little curly tail it's [101:49] good for nothing you got this beautiful [101:51] tail it could sweep away the the Flies [101:54] and the donkey says yeah but you know [101:56] what I wish I didn't have the Flies so I [101:59] wouldn't need the tail I want ask you do [102:02] you ever worry about the attention would [102:04] you ever trade the attention the fame [102:06] the lack of privacy the intrusions the [102:09] you know everything for for the [102:12] alternative I don't know would you it's [102:13] funny because when I go towards that [102:15] question and I remove the all the [102:17] downsides from my life they're like [102:20] glued to the upsides so I'm like [102:23] so it's always a question of like is the [102:25] trade-off worth it is the question that [102:27] I ask myself all the time every week [102:29] every month and I remind myself [102:30] sometimes I said this to Trevor no but [102:31] he told me that it gets to a point where [102:33] you can't just reverse the decision [102:34] right I try to remind myself that [102:36] there's I could delete this podcast I [102:38] could quit Dragon Den I could delete all [102:41] my social media channels and I could [102:43] right now go to Barley and I was playing [102:45] this out the other day in my head I was [102:46] thinking you know if if if I say to [102:48] myself that I'm optimizing for peace in [102:50] this season of my life then why the hell [102:51] am I doing all this stuff this is peace [102:54] necessarily um and then I play out the [102:56] scenario I okay so I'll move to Barley [102:58] I'll I'll I'll chill out there I've got [102:59] the the financial means to just live [103:01] there for the rest of my life I'll chill [103:02] and then I'll [103:05] start I know you're this is where it [103:07] goes it okay and then I'll start I'll [103:09] start writing yeah and then and then you [103:11] know I might start making videos about [103:13] what I'm writing about because that's [103:14] what I'll behind the diary yeah and I'll [103:16] start painting and you start creating [103:18] again and then if the Creations are good [103:20] you want to show it and then you going [103:21] to share it to someone and then they're [103:22] going to buy and whatever and then [103:23] you're back here again look I think [103:24] that's what you're meant to do I think [103:26] you know people have a mission in life [103:27] you know I don't have a body you know to [103:29] be an Olympic Athlete you know but you [103:31] know I have a mind or curiosity this is [103:33] what you good at this is what you should [103:34] lean in I always feel like do I teach my [103:36] students to like overcome their [103:38] deficiencies or do I teach them to lean [103:40] into their successes I always feel like [103:42] progress feels good no matter what I'm [103:44] trying to lose weight I lose a pound it [103:46] feels so much better to lose a pound [103:48] than gaining you know it feels awful to [103:49] gain an ounce you know so the the fact [103:53] is are you useful are you doing you know [103:55] Freud said there's only two things in [103:56] life work and love it's all you got to [103:58] do you were doing your work doing your [104:01] love take your vacation and uh enjoy [104:04] Bali for a while it lasts and then come [104:05] right [104:06] back Brian we have a closing tradition [104:08] on this podcast where the last guest [104:09] leaves a question for the next guest not [104:11] knowing who they're going to be leaving [104:12] it for and the question that's been left [104:14] for you is if you found out that the [104:18] world was ending in 10 [104:21] minutes who would you want to speak to [104:24] and what would you tell them a it's easy [104:26] I mean it's horrifying but it's but it's [104:28] easy well first of all i' you know call [104:30] my friends at Nasa and tell them to [104:31] direct the giant space La no it would be [104:34] my wife my wife you know it's funny to [104:37] to think about how I'm probable Life Is [104:40] But when I got fired I told you from [104:43] Stanford she was actually an [104:44] undergraduate there and luckily we [104:46] missed because I'm eight and a half [104:48] years older than her and I'd be some [104:49] lecherous 28y old when she was 20 I got [104:52] fired [104:54] I felt it was horrible turned out to be [104:56] the best thing that ever happened to me [104:58] it got me a job that job led to this [105:00] experiment called bicep that experiment [105:02] called bicep took me to the South Pole [105:06] took me to the brink of a Nobel Prize [105:07] but it also brought me to San Diego [105:09] which is her hometown we would not have [105:11] met there's no we didn't meet at [105:13] Stanford we were literally 100 feet away [105:15] from each other at one point we wouldn't [105:18] we wouldn't have met she was meant to be [105:20] if I hadn't gotten fired if I hadn't [105:22] been dreaming and fantasizing about [105:24] experiments that I wanted to do not to [105:25] be someone else's employee but to be my [105:27] own CEO my own world my own laboratory [105:30] my own brand I wouldn't have met her I [105:32] wouldn't have my precious precious [105:34] kids there's no doubt it would be to [105:37] call her what would you what would you [105:40] tell [105:41] him I would just reminisce about how we [105:45] met and what we brought into the world [105:48] and you know kind of uh sure we'd laugh [105:52] and cry Brian thank [105:54] you really appreciate it it's been such [105:56] a wonderful conversation and I highly [105:57] implore everybody that's listening to go [105:59] and check out your show to go and read [106:01] your books all of which I'll link below [106:03] super fascinating and also to go to your [106:04] website if they want to be in with a [106:06] chance of winning some of this space [106:08] material which is I'm so it's amazing [106:10] that I have this I'm such a big fan of [106:11] space so and SpaceX and everything [106:13] that's going on out there in the [106:14] universe so thank you so much for this [106:15] present you can keep the Uranus soap um [106:18] but I'll keep the piece of Mars um the [106:20] work you're doing is so important [106:21] because it's helping to demystify [106:23] and helping us to understand the nature [106:25] of some of these really profound [106:26] questions not ever because you know [106:29] we're seeking to figure it all out so [106:31] that we can change how we [106:32] live but just because there's so much [106:35] Beauty and joy and um meaning that is [106:40] derived irrespective of what the answer [106:43] is and I and I I it's people like you [106:47] that blow our minds open in a way that [106:49] helps me even though I'm never going to [106:51] build a telescope and I'm never going to [106:52] go to this the the South Pole and I'm [106:54] never going to point it at the sky and [106:55] I'm not never going to seek to answer [106:56] these questions in my life but your work [106:59] expands my mind it expands my my like [107:01] thoughts of like possibilities and as an [107:04] entrepreneur as a Creator I think that's [107:06] a net positive for for everyone that [107:08] receives the work that you do um it's so [107:10] Wonder it's so bizarre that we're so [107:12] we're so curious about about the stars [107:15] but it's such a beautiful thing um and [107:17] long may you continue there's very few [107:18] people like you and I was thinking the [107:19] minute we got going today I was thinking [107:21] there's very few people in the world [107:23] that are both smart which is I think [107:25] pretty common but but then able to [107:28] communicate and that is really I've met [107:30] you and Neil de degrass Tyson who have [107:32] this remarkable ability to communicate [107:35] science in a way that inspires [107:37] galvanizes and sort of cultivates [107:39] curiosity it's a really wonderful thing [107:42] I appreciate that and it's exceptionally [107:44] rare that combination of forces like you [107:46] said about the probability of the Comet [107:48] hitting the universe and that bouncing [107:50] off and creating a moon the probability [107:51] of those two things happening in the [107:53] same place is so exceptionally rare but [107:55] it's wonderful that we have people like [107:56] you in this world of podcasting because [107:58] you know maybe once upon a time the um [108:01] it would have been harder to hear your [108:02] voice but now everybody can go and [108:03] listen to you um and I highly recommend [108:06] they do your YouTube channel is [108:07] exceptional so thank you so much Brian [108:08] thank you it's been it's been an [108:09] absolute pleasure it's been an honor for [108:11] me thank you [108:13] Stephen this diary won't change your [108:16] life but the Habit it teaches you [108:19] definitely will the most unhelpful [108:21] advice that I ever received don't sweat [108:23] the small stuff you have to sweat the [108:25] small stuff I sweat the small stuff I [108:28] always have and I always proudly will [108:31] because small things that are easy to do [108:33] are also easy not to do it is easy to [108:36] save a dollar so it's also easy not do [108:38] it is easy to brush your teeth so it's [108:40] also easy not to it is easy to make a 1% [108:43] Improvement so it's also easy not to [108:46] understanding the power of compounding [108:48] 1% you can absolutely change your [108:51] outcomes in your life it is n about [108:53] drastic Transformations or quick wins [108:55] it's about the small consistent actions [108:59] that have a lasting change on your [109:00] outcomes so two years ago we started the [109:02] process of creating this beautiful diary [109:05] and it's truly beautiful inside there's [109:06] lots of pictures lots of inspiration and [109:08] motivation as well some interact [109:10] developments and the purpose of this [109:12] diary is to help you identify stay [109:15] focused on develop consistency with the [109:18] 1% that will ultimately change your life [109:20] we're only going to do a limited run of [109:21] these Diaries so if you you want one for [109:23] yourself or for a friend or for a [109:24] colleague or for your team then head to [109:26] the diary.com right now I'll link it [109:29] below [109:30] [Music] [109:50] [Music] [109:52] h