Aspinall Outlines Strategy to Defeat Jones in Heavyweight Unification

阿斯皮纳尔阐述重量级统一战击败琼斯策略 这位UFC重量级临时冠军认为，自身战术优势、年轻以及较少的比赛录像使他具备击败乔恩·琼斯的优势。 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔回顾了自己成为UFC重量级冠军的心路历程，讲述了早期的经济拮据、在没有稳定收入的情况下抚养三个孩子，以及克服危及职业生涯的膝伤等经历。他深入剖析了自己相比乔恩·琼斯等传奇人物的战术优势，并解释了接纳恐惧与借助催眠疗法如何塑造了他的坚韧心理。此外，阿斯皮纳尔还谈到了自己的家庭生活，包括应对儿子的自闭症诊断，以及通过严格的康复作息保持顶级竞技状态。 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔在训练了23年之后，仅提前两周接下与谢尔盖·帕夫洛维奇的临时头衔战，才首次获得六位数的比赛收入。 (48:41) 在23岁和24岁时，他在阿瑟顿一边照顾三个孩子，一边经历着没有稳定收入的严重经济危机，并感到强烈的挫败感与男子气概受挫。 (52:42) 阿斯皮纳尔认为，在这项运动中的毅力与坚持，是比天赋更能决定成功的关键因素。 (50:08) 在O2体育馆对阵柯蒂斯·布莱兹开场仅15秒时的严重膝伤是他的人生最低谷，但也成为他个人及职业成长的核心催化剂。 (65:01) 关于潜在的对决，阿斯皮纳尔尊重乔恩·琼斯的传奇生涯，但坚称自己拥有战术优势，因为自己更年轻、运动能力更强、拥有UFC最短的平均比赛时间且风格不可预测。 (72:43)

UFC Heavyweight Champion Tom Aspinall explains how embracing fear, surviving extended financial precarity, and applying rigorous mental conditioning enabled his ascent to the peak of mixed martial arts. He also examines the realities of UFC contracts, his transition to undisputed champion, and his family's push for timely neurodevelopmental healthcare. Embracing Fear and Mental Visualization (30:17) Aspinall rejects the traditional fighter trope of invulnerability, openly acknowledging that he is frightened before every bout. In his view, while training is 80% physical and 20% mental, the ratio completely flips to 80% mental once stepping into the cage. Rather than suppressing panic, he treats fear as an essential performance fuel. To bridge the gap between gym performance and fight night, he attends hypnotherapy sessions twice weekly to regulate his nervous system and manage lifelong anxiety and OCD tendencies. To normalize intense pressure, Aspinall utilizes mental drilling, visualizing his walk to the Octagon thousands of times before the event. He also adopts a physical composure method learned from former champion Georges St-Pierre: projecting deliberate outward relaxation through upright posture and smiling. According to Aspinall, intentionally forcing a relaxed physical state eventually tricks the brain into calmness, keeping him composed when facing knockout power. Becoming Undisputed Champion and Division Clarity (7:29) Following Jon Jones' sudden retirement, Aspinall moved from interim titleholder to undisputed UFC Heavyweight Champion. While he would have welcomed a legacy fight against Jones, Aspinall maintains his primary goal was always unified title recognition rather than any single opponent. He appreciates that Jones' departure eliminates the fragmentation common in professional boxing, restoring a single champion to the division. Now embracing the role of the targeted champion rather than chasing reluctant contenders, Aspinall targets two title defenses before the end of the year, pointing to Ciryl Gane and Jailton Almeida as prospective challengers. While acknowledging Jones' tactical fight IQ and distance management, Aspinall remains open to facing him should Jones decide to un-retire and jump the queue. Economic Realities, Injury, and Lifestyle Rebuild (40:33) Aspinall challenges the perception of mixed martial arts as a swift route to wealth, noting that roughly 95% of fighters never earn more than £5,000 for a bout. Standard entry-level UFC contracts begin at $10,000 to $15,000 to show, with an equal win bonus. Between ages 23 and 25, while raising three young children in Greater Manchester, Aspinall experienced intense financial strain, often fighting for £600 purses and borrowing fuel money from family. His first six-figure payday arrived only at age 30 when he accepted an interim title fight against Sergei Pavlovich on two weeks' notice, concluding a 23-year progression from his childhood training. A pivotal turning point occurred when Aspinall suffered a catastrophic knee injury against Curtis Blaydes, leaving him bedridden for six months. The enforced layoff forced him to evaluate his environment, eliminate toxic relationships, and overhaul his preparation. He established a strict rule of dedicating 50% as much time to active recovery—such as sleep, saunas, and mobility—as he does to training, before returning to avenge the loss by knocking out Blaydes. Autism Advocacy and Life Beyond Fighting (98:28) Aspinall emphasizes that commercial success and championship belts do not eliminate personal stress. Navigating developmental delays in one of his twin sons exposed him to lengthy National Health Service waitlists for autism assessments. Aspinall stresses that a formal diagnosis provides a vital roadmap and unlocks critical state support, such as sensory equipment and classroom aides. While his fighting income provides financial independence, he advocates publicly for shorter assessment delays on behalf of families who rely on public services. Recognizing that combat sports careers are finite—with heavyweights typically competing into their late thirties or early forties—Aspinall is actively planning for his post-fight transition. To protect against the loss of daily routine and future income drops, he negotiates equity stakes in commercial partnerships and hosts a fight-breakdown program on TNT Sports to establish a long-term foundation in broadcasting. Aspinall's trajectory illustrates that sustained success in combat sports depends as heavily on emotional regulation, family stability, and commercial planning as on physical capability. Even at the pinnacle of the heavyweight division, he treats active competition as a temporary phase, directing his platform toward healthcare advocacy while preparing for an eventual transition into sports media.

UFC重量级冠军Tom Aspinall在访谈中指出，顶尖格斗选手的真正分水岭在于对恐惧的心智驾驭与长久坚持，而非单纯的身体天赋。他回顾了自己从贫困与严重伤病中复苏的历程，剖析了职业综合格斗严酷的经济现实，并阐述了在聚光灯之外维持心理韧性与家庭责任的方法。 重塑恐惧认知与心理调适机制 (30:17) Aspinall直言，即便是世界顶尖的重量级选手，他在面对每位对手时内心依然充满恐惧，但他将这种恐惧视为提升专注度的必要燃料，而非软弱的体现。许多在训练馆内表现出色的选手之所以在正式比赛中失常，正是因为未能正确理解恐惧的心理机制。他将心智视为必须系统锻炼的肌肉，日常通过催眠疗法与反复的情境观想来进行“心智演练”——在踏入八角笼之前，他已在大脑中模拟过上万次出场过程，从而在真实的高压环境下维持如同日常般的平静。 受前冠军Georges St-Pierre（GSP）的经验启发，Aspinall在比赛日即便极度紧张，也会刻意保持微笑、挺直胸膛并展现出松弛的肢体语言，借由身体信号反向调节神经系统，使大脑从高度警觉过渡至冷静。为了隔绝外界杂音与过度内耗，他在备战训练营期间会彻底卸载社交媒体，甚至改用仅限核心教练与团队联络的专用手机，以抵御强迫症倾向和赛前焦虑。 职业格斗的残酷经济学与漫长蛰伏 (40:33) 针对外界对UFC选手光鲜生活的刻板印象，Aspinall揭示了这项运动极低的成功概率与苛刻的财务现实。他估计高达95%的职业选手单场出场费从未超过5,000英镑。在早期的业余与低级别赛事中，他经历过单场比赛仅拿50至100英镑现金的阶段；即便进入UFC，标准的新人合同通常也仅为单场1万至1.5万美元的出场费外加等额胜场奖金，且赛事方可在选手表现不佳时随时解约。他指出，在英国只有极少数如Conor McGregor、Leon Edwards等顶尖选手实现了真正的财务自由。 在23至25岁期间，已育有三个孩子的Aspinall经历了严重的经济困境与挫败感，一度连给汽车加油和购买婴儿纸尿裤都难以负担，不得不依靠父母与朋友的接济。从大约七、八岁开始接受格斗训练，直到30岁在UFC 295临时接替出战Sergei Pavlovich夺冠并首次获得六位数的高额酬劳，他整整经历了23年的漫长煎熬。他认为，除了单纯赢下比赛，选手还必须具备能调动大众观赛欲望的票房号召力，才能打破常规合同层级并获得实质性的商业突破。 严重膝伤带来的全面重构与救赎 (62:08) 在早年的经济困顿期，Aspinall为了维持生计与向上攀爬的势头，长期带着未愈的慢性腿伤进行训练与比赛，甚至适应了仅靠单腿发力、避免踢击与承重的极端打法。这一隐患最终在对阵Curtis Blaydes的焦点战开局瞬间彻底爆发，导致他膝盖重伤并被迫离场休养六个月。面对外界质疑他装伤退赛的舆论压力，以及来自朋友建议其退役转行做解说的劝导，他在经历低谷后将质疑转化为重返赛场的动力。 长达半年的卧床恢复期成为他职业生涯的关键转折点。他利用这段停滞期对自身生活环境进行了彻底排查，果断清理了身边缺乏建设性的负面人际关系，并纠正了在饮食、训练伙伴及恢复节奏上的疏漏。他在身体完全康复后制定了重赛Blaydes并重新在伦敦O2体育馆领衔主赛的明确目标，最终在二番战中击警对手，完成了对职业生涯创伤的心理脱敏与竞技救赎。 重量级格局变动与职业后期规划 (72:43) 随着Jon Jones退役，Aspinall正式升格为UFC重量级无可争议的冠军。他分析认为，Jones具备顶尖的战术智商、距离控制能力与挑选合适对手的商业眼光，但他坚信自己在体格、巅峰运动能力与决策速度上拥有对抗Jones的结构性优势。尽管由于Jones退役未能促成这场对决，但Aspinall明确表示自己的核心目标始终是无可争议的世界金腰带，而非执着于某一位传奇选手个人的光环。他更倾向于成为全级别选手追逐的目标，并计划加快参赛频率以弥补此前因级别停滞而浪费的巅峰期。 面对格斗选手退役后普遍面临的空虚感与财务不确定性，已步入职业后半程的Aspinall开始提早布局后竞技时代。在竞技层面，他严格遵守“50%恢复原则”（每训练4小时便安排2小时的主动恢复），确保身体机能的可持续性；在商业与事业层面，他在赞助协议中积极争取企业的股权分成，并担任TNT Sports的格斗战术分析解说员，旨在为日后从八角笼平稳过渡至全职体育传媒领域奠定坚实基础。 Aspinall的经历展现了一名蓝领背景运动员从底层极端贫困到登顶格斗巅峰的完整心智演变。然而，金钱与世界冠军头衔并不能消除内心深处的焦虑与个人生活中的现实挑战；如何平衡家庭对患有自闭症孩子的照料责任、应对终将到来的退役转型，并在高度危险的重量级擂台上守住巅峰，依然是他未来需要持续面对的课题。

## Background 该内容由知名播客频道《The Diary Of A CEO》（主持人为 Steven Bartlett）于 2025 年 6 月 26 日发布在 YouTube 平台。节目简介指出，在乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）突然宣布退役并正式确立汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）为 UFC 无可争议重量级世界冠军的背景下，阿斯皮纳尔深度剖析了这一历史性转折背后的内幕、冠军心智、格斗幕后的残酷现实以及如何驾驭恐惧与逆境。 ## TL;DR 访谈中，阿斯皮纳尔首度详细回应了乔恩·琼斯的退役、双方未能交战的博弈真相以及重量级王座的未来格局。他回顾了自己长达 23 年的登顶血泪史，包括 25 岁时作为三个孩子的父亲却穷困潦倒、借钱买纸尿裤度日的极端低谷，以及伦敦主场膝盖脱臼重伤后重构人际圈与心智的蜕变历程。阿斯皮纳尔罕见地打破格斗界的心理禁忌，坦承自己“害怕与任何人动手”，并无私拆解了利用催眠疗法与身体反馈机制将恐惧转化为专注的心理训练法。此外，他还公开了双胞胎儿子确诊自闭症后的家庭挣扎，痛击英国国民医疗体系（NHS）漫长的诊断等待期，并分享了为避免长期脑损伤而筹划提早退役的商业与人生版图。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话在硬核冷峻的擂台生存真相与深沉温润的家庭情感之间自如流转，彻底打破了人们对 UFC 重量级冠军“无坚不摧”的扁平刻板印象。史蒂文·巴特利特的提问精准而克制，引导出阿斯皮纳尔毫不造作的赤诚——这位世界最能打的巨汉在谈及借钱养家的羞耻感、儿子的自闭症诊断以及踏入八角笼的本能恐惧时，眼神清澈而坦荡。聆听过程中，既有格斗战术拆解的扣人心弦，又有面对普通人生活重压时的强烈共鸣，情绪曲线从早期的压抑挣扎最终升华至历经淬火后的从容与通透。 ## Bulletin - [01:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=92s) 乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）正式宣布退役，汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）自动扶正为 UFC 无可争议重量级世界冠军，彻底终结了该量级长达近一年的“双冠军”分裂僵局。 - [40:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2433s) 阿斯皮纳尔揭示了 MMA 行业残酷的收入金字塔：95% 的职业格斗选手单场收入从未突破 5,000 英镑，他自己苦熬 23 年、在 25 岁身无分文借钱买尿布后，才在 30 岁夺得临时冠军头衔时拿到首笔六位数出场费。 - [01:25:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5128s) 作为 UFC 历史平均用时最短的终结纪录保持者，阿斯皮纳尔奉行严格的“50% 恢复法则”（恢复时间必须占到训练时长的一半），并建立赛前弃用社交媒体、使用备战专用手机的心智屏蔽机制。 - [01:45:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6320s) 结合抚养自闭症双胞胎儿子的亲身经历，阿斯皮纳尔公开批判英国 NHS 评估长达三至七年的排队危机，强调一纸确诊报告是特殊儿童获取校内一对一助教与摆脱无序挣扎的生命线。 ## Key takeaways - [01:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=92s) 琼斯的退役消除了正式冠军与临时冠军并存的尴尬分裂，量级重回“唯有一人称霸”的清晰秩序，阿斯皮纳尔也顺利完成从挑战者到被追逐者的心态转换。 - [03:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=206s) 阿斯皮纳尔自始至终追逐的是无可争议冠军的金腰带而非琼斯个人，虽然错失传奇对决稍显遗憾，但他拒绝陷入无限期的等待泥潭。 - [21:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1280s) 相较于团队运动中努力与胜负脱节的失衡感，格斗运动带来极致的个人责任感与因果律，擂台实战每天都会将运动员的傲慢与虚荣心彻底归零。 - [28:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1731s) 格斗界普遍对“恐惧”讳莫如深，但顶尖冠军坦言惧怕任何对手；接纳并“沐浴”在恐惧中是身体激发超常潜能的催化剂，声称毫无恐惧往往是在自欺欺人。 - [32:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1923s) 比赛当晚超过 80% 取决于心理素质，阿斯皮纳尔通过每周两次的专业催眠治疗以及在脑海中演练上万次出场通道，使大脑对极限高压环境彻底脱敏。 - [46:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2762s) UFC 新人合同通常采用“10k+10k”（出场费+胜场奖）机制，赛事方掌握单方面解约权，哪怕赢下比赛但场面沉闷也可能面临被裁员的生存风险。 - [52:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3140s) 所谓“一朝成名”往往需要数十年枯燥无望的积累，“比对手更能熬”是竞技体育的终极法则，家人在财务崩溃边缘的无条件支持是支撑其熬过低谷的关键支柱。 - [01:02:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3728s) 在主场两万五千人注视下遭遇开局断腿重伤是其生涯转折点，半年卧床期促使他彻底断舍离，清理身边的有毒人群与低效训练，完成从盲目连胜到完全体的蜕变。 - [01:14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4483s) 乔恩·琼斯最顶级的格斗智商在于其极致的控制力——能够凭借长臂展与摔跤技术，强行迫使任何顶尖高手完全按照琼斯的节奏与规则打比赛。 - [01:19:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4760s) 阿斯皮纳尔极快的速胜效率使他从未在擂台公开展示全部技术库，缺少后半程长镜头录像反而剥夺了对手团队进行模式分析与战术克制的数据支持。 - [01:25:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5128s) 重击终结的核心并非绝对力量，而在于隐蔽的时机感与假动作掩护；精英身体管理需配合严苛的午睡与饮食记录，通过微小习惯的长期叠加拉开差距。 - [01:48:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6481s) 自闭症确诊绝非贴标签，而是激活医疗补贴、感官改造与特教辅助的关键抓手；缺乏诊断会使整个家庭陷入无所适从的“原地踩水”困境。 - [01:55:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6930s) 为了规避格斗选手的脑损伤与晚年认知衰退，阿斯皮纳尔规划相对提早退役，并通过商业赞助绑定股权和 TNT Sports 战术解说早早铺设退役后的转型轨道。 - [02:04:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7441s) 汲取乔治·圣皮埃尔（GSP）的心法，他在比赛日反直觉地强迫自己保持昂首微笑与松弛姿态，通过外在生理行为驱动大脑神经系统进入真正的冷静专注。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=0s) 序幕：恐惧的燃料与“一夜成名”背后的沉重代价 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）在开篇直言不讳地打破了大众对重量级格斗冠军的刻板印象。哪怕如今贵为世界公认的重量级第一人，他依然坦白自己“害怕与任何人交手”。当被问及乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）时，他的回答更是毫不掩饰：“我要是不怕，那我就是个傻子。”然而，阿斯皮纳尔早已学会将这种原始的恐惧转化为力量——恐惧成了无可替代的催化剂与燃料，驱动他在八角笼中拼尽一切。但他对停滞不前的等待感到厌烦，无法容忍自己完成高强度备战训练却无法真正踏入擂台的折磨。 回顾自己的登顶之路，这位 UFC 历史上首位英国籍重量级冠军直言：“所谓的一夜成名，背后往往需要历经漫长岁月的熬炼。”阿斯皮纳尔从 8 岁起就开始接受格斗训练，一路上历经了险些终结职业生涯的重伤、精神抑郁与极端贫困。在 25 岁那年，他已经是三个孩子的父亲，银行账户里却空无一文。第一场职业比赛的酬劳仅仅只有 200 英镑，他甚至不得不找朋友借钱为孩子买纸尿裤，只为了能让全家苟延残喘，支撑自己继续追逐格斗梦想。面对摆在演播室桌上象征职业生涯转折点的黑色盒子，他沉痛地承认，那段灰暗过往中藏着他“整个职业生涯中最具毁灭性的打击”。 - **职业生涯起步**：8 岁开始接受格斗训练，首场职业比赛出场费仅 200 英镑。 - **极端现实压力**：25 岁时已是三个孩子的父亲，一度陷入身无分文的窘境，不得不向朋友借钱买婴儿纸尿裤。 - **核心人生信条**：“持久力与持之以恒的耐力被严重低估了。在选择泛滥的时代，对单一目标百分之百的偏执专注，才能换来最终的胜利。” --- ### [01:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=92s) 突发连线：乔恩·琼斯退役与毫无防备的喜讯 在正式播出几周前录制的深度长访谈之前，主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）特意插播了一段最新录制的电话连线。就在通话的数小时前，UFC 官方突然投下一枚重磅炸弹：长期占据无可争议重量级冠军头衔的乔恩·琼斯正式宣布退役，而原临时冠军汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔顺理成章地被扶正为无可争议的重量级世界冠军。史蒂芬询问阿斯皮纳尔是否早就料到了这一幕，阿斯皮纳尔给出了坦诚的回答：他确实预感到结局会是这样，但宣布的时机却完全出乎意料。 原本阿斯皮纳尔已经定好下周前往拉斯维加斯，参加被誉为年度最重头格斗盛会的“UFC 国际格斗周”（International Fight Week）。圈内此前流传的消息普遍认为，UFC 会在格斗周的重大舞台上正式官宣琼斯的退役决定。然而就在前一天深夜，官方毫无征兆地提前将消息公之于众。阿斯皮纳尔透露，虽然坊间和媒体关于琼斯退役的传言已经飞了很久，但他直到昨晚才得到百分之百的官方确认。在此之前，他从琼斯核心圈子里听到的风声就已经表明，琼斯早已不再保持顶级职业运动员的作息和纪律，不仅很少出现在训练馆中，也彻底失去了重返八角笼的渴望。对阿斯皮纳尔而言，这一确凿的官宣终于为漫长的拉锯战画上了句号。 --- ### [03:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=206s) 追逐金腰带而非某一个人：评琼斯的避战与退役 当被问及未能亲手击败琼斯是否留有遗憾时，阿斯皮纳尔清晰地区分了外界的期待与他内心的真实动机。他承认，乔恩·琼斯在综合格斗界享有崇高的传奇地位，若能在履历表上添上琼斯的名字，无论是从声誉还是财务回报上都堪称一笔巨大的战利品。但阿斯皮纳尔强调：“我自始至终追逐的只有‘无可争议重量级冠军’这个头衔本身，我从来不是在追逐某一个人。琼斯只是附带的奖赏，金腰带才是我的终极目标。” 针对琼斯的退役究竟是一场“战术性避战”还是其传奇生涯的自然谢幕，阿斯皮纳尔表现出了克制与大度。他认为琼斯在格斗界取得的成就远胜于自己，完全有资格根据自己的心愿决定何时离场。尽管阿斯皮纳尔从纯粹战士的角度承认，如果换作自己处于风口浪尖，“面对公众如此巨大的压力，我的自尊心恐怕绝不允许我选择退缩”，但他对琼斯没有任何敌意。真正让他感到解脱的是长达近一年的漫长停滞终于结束了——在过去十个月中，他处于个人身体与技术的黄金时期，每天按部就班在拳馆刻苦备战，却因为琼斯悬而未决的动向而被迫荒废了一整年无法登台比赛。阿斯皮纳尔甚至半开玩笑地提到，自己内心深处的骄傲在某种程度上感到满足，因为他早前就曾预言：“我会在不和他交手的情况下，直接把他逼到退役。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 阿斯皮纳尔的心态与职业战略演进 accDescr: 展示阿斯皮纳尔在乔恩·琼斯退役前后的核心关注点与心态转变 subgraph 核心驱动力 A["终极目标: 无可争议重量级世界冠军"] B["次要红利: 乔恩·琼斯的传奇履历与商业收益"] end subgraph 停滞的十个月 C["身体状态 100% 保持巅峰"] D["日复一日留守训练馆"] E["因对手悬而未决被迫处于休战等待状态"] end subgraph 官宣之后的新篇章 F["琼斯退役，头衔正式转正"] G["自尊心实现: 不战而迫使传奇退役"] H["摆脱等待泥潭，开启卫冕时代"] end A --> E B -.-> E C & D --> E E --> F F --> G & H ``` --- ### [06:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=390s) 潜在的回归可能与金腰带统一后的新格局 鉴于乔恩·琼斯一贯变幻莫测的行事作风，外界始终怀疑其退役声明的真实性，猜测琼斯很可能在未来感到无聊时再度复出。对此，阿斯皮纳尔保持着极为现实且清醒的心理准备。他很清楚琼斯的历史地位赋予了其无可比拟的特权——哪怕一年之后又有三四位新的挑战者在排队等待挑战权，只要琼斯开口说想打，UFC 随时都会允许他“插队”直接获得冠军战资格。阿斯皮纳尔甚至分析道，目前自己在顶级赛场上的比赛视频数据相对有限，琼斯可能在观察他接下来的几场卫冕战后，自认为抓住了破绽，从而决定复出。阿斯皮纳尔表示自己绝不会排除这种可能性，一旦发生他必将欣然接战，但他不会再陷入等待的执念，而是专注于打造属于自己的格斗传奇。 当史蒂芬询问成为无可争议冠军后，一夜之间究竟发生了哪些普通拳迷看不见的实质性变化（例如合同待遇、从“追赶者”变为“被追赶者”的身份转变）时，阿斯皮纳尔揭开了 UFC 冠军合约的内幕。他指出，由于此前自己已经是临时冠军，在商业待遇上早已经享受了顶级冠军的核心权益： - **PPV 分成特权**：身为冠军可以获得赛事付费点播（Pay-Per-View）的利润抽成。根据选手合同谈判的具体细则，观众每购买一次 60 美元的 PPV 直播，选手通常能从中分得 2 美元、5 美元甚至 10 美元不等的提成，这构成了顶级格斗家最可观的收入来源。 - **唯一性的确立**：阿斯皮纳尔表示，物质条件并没有发生翻天覆地的剧变，真正最大的改变在于整个量级的秩序彻底理清。量级内不再同时存在两条金腰带的尴尬分裂，“现在只有一张面孔、一个名字”，他彻底结束了关于重量级王座归属的无休止争论。 ### [08:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=536s) 终结双冠僵局：MMA 与拳击的本质区别与潜在挑战者 在谈到重量级当前的局面时，汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）指出了综合格斗与职业拳击之间最根本的区别。在拳击界，同时存在 WBO、WBC、IBO、IBF 等繁杂的组织，每个组织都坐拥各自的金腰带和所谓的“世界冠军”；而在 MMA 领域，公认的世界第一通常就是 UFC 的冠军。此前由于乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）迟迟未退役，重量级同时存在正式冠军与临时冠军“一山二虎”的局面，这种尴尬的僵局令阿斯皮纳尔感到极不自在。他坚信每个量级理应只有一位绝对霸主。虽然未能与琼斯在八角笼内用拳头见分晓令人遗憾，但随着琼斯的退役，王座终于重归唯一，他也彻底释然并准备好迎接未来。 谈及谁将成为头号挑战者时，阿斯皮纳尔坦言，相比于过去四处邀战、追赶对手，他更享受现在这种“成为被追逐者”的猎物角色：“我更喜欢被猎捕，而不是当猎人……大家都冲着我来，这感觉棒极了。”在重量级排名前十的选手中，阿斯皮纳尔几乎交手过大半，但仍有几位值得关注的目标： - **西里尔·盖恩（Ciryl Gane）**：这位法国名将此前几度闪转腾挪、回避与阿斯皮纳尔交手，阿斯皮纳尔直言他“欠我一顿痛揍”。 - **贾尔顿·阿尔梅达（Jailton Almeida）**：排名靠前、未曾谋面的巴西柔术好手。 - **亚历山大·沃尔科夫（Alexander Volkov）**：虽然此前已被阿斯皮纳尔击败，但近期势头迅猛。 - 重量级梯队中还有数位正在快速崛起的年轻新星，未来两年的对决格局依然充满悬念。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 重量级王座与潜在挑战者格局 accDescr: 展示汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔登顶无可争议冠军后，重量级潜在挑战者西里尔·盖恩、贾尔顿·阿尔梅达与亚历山大·沃尔科夫的竞争态势。 subgraph Champion["无可争议重量级冠军"] TA["汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔<br/>(Tom Aspinall)"] end subgraph Contenders["主要潜在挑战者"] CG["西里尔·盖恩<br/>(Ciryl Gane)<br/>曾多次回避，宿怨未解"] JA["贾尔顿·阿尔梅达<br/>(Jailton Almeida)<br/>排名靠前的巴西摔柔高手"] AV["亚历山大·沃尔科夫<br/>(Alexander Volkov)<br/>曾败于阿斯皮纳尔，近期状态回升"] end CG -.->|"发起挑战"| TA JA -.->|"发起挑战"| TA AV -.->|"发起挑战"| TA ``` ### [10:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=643s) 备战计划、严格自律与拉斯维加斯之行 针对何时重返八角笼以及是否会在英国本土（如伦敦）迎战盖恩，阿斯皮纳尔半开玩笑地表示“为了保住饭碗，许多细节现在还不能对外透露”。但他明确表态，自己此前已经耽误了太长时间，目前的计划是尽快敲定比赛，并在今年内至少打两场。他坦言，在巨汉林立的重量级，想要在终结比赛的同时毫发无伤极其困难，但只要首战顺利过关，他迫切希望在年底前再打一场。 尽管外界以为他飞往拉斯维加斯是去 UFC 顶尖训练中心（UFC PI）展开封闭集训，但阿斯皮纳尔澄清，日常训练本身就是他的生活常态，有无比赛仅仅是强度的差异。此行拉斯维加斯，更核心的原因在于他如今贵为新晋无可争议重量级冠军，需要出席大型赛事活动、配合媒体宣传，并推进与运动品牌 Champion（他计划合作至职业生涯结束的新赞助商）的商业工作。阿斯皮纳尔透露自己是一个“极度依赖日常作息、高度目标导向”的人，长途旅行和离开曼彻斯特熟悉的训练环境会打破节奏，因此他更倾向于在短时间内“一石多鸟”高效完成所有境外事务，随后迅速回到家乡闭门苦练。 ### [13:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=785s) 家人的平静反应与对乔恩·琼斯的告别赠言 当主持人问及加冕无可争议冠军后家人的反应时，阿斯皮纳尔给出了出人意料的平淡回答。无论在家庭内部还是外界看来，这个头衔在实质上早就属于他了，因为乔恩·琼斯过去一年的种种作为，已经让外界很难再视其为货真价实的统治者。当天早晨他把退役和登顶的消息告诉孩子们时，几乎没有激起任何波澜： - **六岁的双胞胎**：年纪太小，对职业格斗和金腰带毫无概念。 - **近九岁的大儿子**：因为学校同学开始关注 MMA 并觉得这很酷，阿斯皮纳尔特意叮嘱他：“乔恩·琼斯退役了，老爸现在是无可争议的世界冠军，我告诉你只是为了防备同学们在学校跟你聊起时你不知道。”而儿子的反应仅仅是一句平静的“哦，好的”。 谈到对传奇乔恩·琼斯的寄语，阿斯皮纳尔表现得十分坦荡与尊重。他承认琼斯拥有 UFC 史上最伟大的职业生涯之一，足以与哈比卜（Khabib）等一众殿堂级名宿并肩。阿斯皮纳尔由衷希望琼斯能享受退役后的家庭生活并庆祝辉煌的战果：“如果他发自内心地觉得自己已经证明了足够多的东西，那他内心自会安宁。他不需要我或者任何人来评判他有多强，他自己心里最清楚。” ### [15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=929s) 英国格斗的新标杆与重量级的不可预测性 主持人史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）代表英国粉丝向阿斯皮纳尔表达了由衷的敬意。英国格斗界期盼这样一位重量级冠军已久——他既积极迎战、不挑对手，又兼具非凡亲和力，向大众证明了一个出身平凡的普通人如何一步一个脚印攀登至世界顶峰。阿斯皮纳尔对这份支持深表感激，同时也提醒所有届时到场观战的好友与支持者：“每一次只要我踏入八角笼，你们就必须系紧安全带、做好应对一切的心理准备。因为这是最高水平的重量级 MMA，瞬息之间任何意外都可能发生。” ### [17:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1020s) 九岁时的顿悟：从大曼彻斯特走出的冠军梦 访谈切换回录制正片，当被问到童年梦想时，阿斯皮纳尔给出了一个惊人笃定的答案：“如果从我九岁及以后的年纪来问，我当时就会斩钉截铁地告诉你：我将来要成为 UFC 重量级世界冠军。” 这种坚定的宿命感始于他童年第一次走进搏击拳馆的瞬间。当时九岁的他震惊地发现，拳馆里的一群成年人不需要去坐办公室做常规的全职工作，他们每天唯一的事就是泡在拳馆里挥汗如雨，隔几个月打一场比赛，就能凭此赚钱生活。那一幕对年幼的他造成了巨大的冲击，他立刻认定这就是自己终生想要追求的道路。回顾自己的出身，阿斯皮纳尔透露自己出生于大曼彻斯特的索尔福德（Salford），随后举家迁往阿瑟顿（Atherton）。那是一个极其普通、平静且甚至有些乏味的小镇，而正是从这个毫无波澜的地方，孕育出了日后站在世界格斗巅峰的重量级王者。 ### [17:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1077s) 蓝领背景与父亲的柔术启蒙：泡在成人拳馆里长大的童年 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）出生于一个典型的英国蓝领工人阶层社区，周遭的父辈大多数在工厂流水线上班，或是从事机修工、水暖工这类重体力劳动。然而阿斯皮纳尔的父亲最初从事的是 IT 行业。在拿到一笔裁员补偿金后，父亲做出了一个在当时看来极其冒险的决定——全职教授巴西柔术与缠斗（Grappling）。在大概二十年前，整个英国的地面缠斗运动几乎处于一片荒芜的空白状态，既没有完善的赛事体系，也没有成型的商业市场。阿斯皮纳尔当时甚至连所谓的“格斗新星”都算不上，父亲也从未打过职业比赛，但出于对训练的纯粹热爱，父亲决定把更多的时间用来亲自打磨儿子，陪他做喜欢的事情。 阿斯皮纳尔坦言，自己究竟从何时真正开始格斗训练已经很难划出一条清晰的界线。那更像是一种自然而然的生活方式：因为当时无事可做，年纪尚小的他就跟着父亲泡在拳馆里，以此作为父子相处的时间。在阿斯皮纳尔八九岁的时候，英国根本没有如今随处可见、容纳二三十名儿童的少儿综合格斗班。馆里通常只有十来个三四十岁的中年壮汉在地垫上缠斗翻滚。每当有体型稍小一点的成年人轮空时，年幼的阿斯皮纳尔就跳上去跟他们过两招；要是没有合适的人，他就一个人在拳馆角落里踢足球玩。可以说，他完全是在拳馆的汗水与垫子间泡大的，直到十三四岁左右，他才真正开始系统而严肃地进行专业训练。 ### [19:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1185s) 从陪练小孩到成年对手：觉察到自己格斗天赋的转折点 当被问及成长过程中是否有某个瞬间让他意识到自己异于常人时，阿斯皮纳尔回忆起了他在儿童时期与成年人对练的微妙转变。在最初几年，年幼的阿斯皮纳尔心里其实非常清楚，馆里的成年人都在让着他——那些人很多是他父亲的朋友或学员，看着他长大，所以在实战中会有意放水，主动让出优势身位，陪他“玩耍”，根本没有真正发力。 直到他十一二岁的时候，情况悄然发生了改变。阿斯皮纳尔敏锐地觉察到，那些成年人在防守和对抗时开始动真格的了，训练的身体对抗强度和竞争火药味直线上升，对方不再任由他随意施展技术，而是开始强力反击。实战回合结束后，这些成年壮汉一个个累得气喘吁吁、大汗淋漓，脸上满是刚刚经历了一场高强度硬仗的神情，而不再是陪小孩子过家家的轻松模样。就在那个瞬间，阿斯皮纳尔在心里暗自琢磨：“看来我还真挺不错的，他们竟然开始对我使出全力了。” ### [21:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1280s) 为什么选择格斗而非团队运动：安全感、平等与极致的个人责任感 阿斯皮纳尔成长的地区有着极其深厚的英式橄榄球（Rugby League）传统，他也曾尝试过打橄榄球等其他项目，但从未真正投入其中。在阿斯皮纳尔心中，唯有格斗拳馆能带给他一种极其罕见而奇妙的“安全感”。他描述道，在格斗馆的同一间训练室里，可能同时站着十个背景天差地别的人：有男有女，有的只有十二岁，有的已经六十五岁；有人是退休老人，有人还是大学学生；有人是黑人，有人是华人。但只要踏上那块垫子，所有的社会标签、种族、性别、年龄和财富地位全都被瞬间剥离，大家彼此平等、毫无保留地尊重对方。对于一个性格原本内向害羞的小男孩来说，武术成了他最安全、最自在的表达自我的语言。 更关键的决定性因素在于“绝对掌控权”与“个人责任感”。在橄榄球这种团队运动中，阿斯皮纳尔经常陷入心理失衡：有时他自己拼尽全力打出了一场堪称完美的比赛，球队却输了，他甚至能看到身旁的队友在消极怠工；有时他自己表现极差，球队却赢了，所有人都在狂欢庆祝，但他心里的沮丧感却挥之不去。阿斯皮纳尔极度渴望对结果拥有完全的掌控权，而综合格斗恰恰将这种因果律推向了极致： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: MMA训练与个人责任感闭环 accDescr: 展示了格斗运动中高自律输入与擂台现实反馈之间的直接因果关系 subgraph Input["日常极端自律"] A["思维专注与心理建设"] B["严苛饮食与营养摄入"] C["精细化身体恢复"] D["拳馆高强度重复训练"] end subgraph Output["无处遁形的现实检验"] E["擂台/实战全面曝光表现"] F["虚荣心每日归零 (Ego Checked)"] end Input --> Output Output -->|"促使形成闭环，增强自我掌控"| Input ``` - **无处藏匿的擂台**：在综合格斗里，偷懒没有任何借口。“如果你没有付出应有的努力，你立刻就会被当众扒光伪装（exposed）。” - **每日粉碎虚荣心**：踏上垫子的那一刻，傲慢和自大每天都会被现实打回原形。 - **全方位生活问责**：饮食结构、作息恢复、训练组数乃至日常每一个念头，都会赤裸裸地反映在擂台表现中，这种对人生的绝对责任感正是他深深迷恋的东西。 ### [23:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1429s) 母亲为何此前从未现场观赛：心疼、恐惧与曼彻斯特的唯一见证 谈及母亲在自己格斗生涯中的角色，阿斯皮纳尔的语气充满了温情。他盛赞母亲是“这个地球上最善良的女人”，完完全全符合英国人口中“身上找不出一根坏骨头（not got a bad bone in her body）”的赞誉。但对于这项残酷暴力的综合格斗运动，母亲多年来始终选择刻意远离。令人惊讶的是，直到阿斯皮纳尔在曼彻斯特本土打响卫冕战、高居世界第一时，母亲才破天荒第一次亲临现场观看他的比赛。 母亲此前从未到场，并非阿斯皮纳尔不准她来，而是他深知这有多么可怕。阿斯皮纳尔坦言，即便是坐在场下看自己的队友比赛，他都会紧张恐惧到难以忍受，综合格斗是一项结果极度不可预测的残酷运动，他绝不忍心强行拉着深爱自己的至亲去承受那种心理煎熬。之所以让母亲破例出席曼彻斯特的比赛，是因为他认真劝说了母亲：“这大概率是我职业生涯最后一次在曼彻斯特本土比赛了。我不知道自己还能打几场，我宁愿退役得早一点，也不愿退役得太晚，因为我亲眼见过许多选手在生涯末期落得多么凄凉的下场。我绝不想变成那样。现在我的大多数比赛都在美国，你以后恐怕再也没有机会在现场看我比赛了，所以这场你真的该来。”最终，母亲坐在了场边，并且赛后表示自己其实挺享受那一刻。 ### [25:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1543s) 格斗对迷茫年轻人的救赎：擂台是直面现实与粉碎虚荣的最好地方 当谈到现在许多年轻男性普遍面临失去人生目标、甚至陷入无意义感与心理危机的社会现象时，阿斯皮纳尔深有感触地表示，如果没有格斗，他自己的人生也彻底迷失了。他由衷建议每一个迷茫的年轻人去接触武术，因为这项运动有着彻底重塑心智的力量： 格斗能够极大地粉碎一个人的盲目自大与虚荣心。踏上训练垫的每一秒，现实都会像一记重拳狠狠砸在你的脸上。如果你缺乏连贯性与自律，下一次重返训练时，现实的重拳只会砸得更狠、更痛。这种体验会在人的生命中催生出一种极其强烈的目标感与自律动机——那并非瘫痪行动的恐惧，而是一种促使你不敢懈怠的敬畏心，因为你明白，唯有日复一日的坚持，才能在残酷的现实撞击面前站稳脚跟。 ### [27:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1631s) 为什么每个人都应该学习基本的防身自卫 Tom 强调格斗训练能为人生建立起极其强大的秩序与结构。抛开犯罪率等宏观统计数据不谈，现实是英国当前的治安和犯罪情况相当严峻。他以上楼的随行好友兼社交媒体负责人 Charlie 为例：Charlie 已经 32 岁，但近期也在 Tom 的建议下开始训练。Tom 常常告诉每一个没有接触过武术的人：你不需要去当世界冠军，也不需要天天泡在拳馆，甚至完全不用走上拳台或八角笼去跟人拼命，但你必须对“如何在危急时刻保护自己”具备最基本的概念。 无论你是拥有自己的房子，还是有孩子、伴侣，生活里总会有你必须去保护、而他们自身又缺乏自卫能力的人或事物。Tom 认为，作为一个成年人，你必须掌握自卫手段，因为打斗在任何情况下都是极度可怕的事情。他直言不讳：“我现在贵为世界排名第一的重量级选手，我都害怕跟人动手打架。”如果在街头面对冲突时脑子里一片空白、毫无防备技能，那场面将充满无助与恐惧。因此，他极力推荐任何年龄段的人都去接触并学习一些格斗技巧。 ### [28:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1731s) “我也怕打架”：世界顶尖冠军揭开格斗界的恐惧禁忌 Steven 抓住了 Tom 话里的两个核心观点进行深入剖析。第一点是武术能迅速将“缺乏自律的恶果”拉到眼前：如果一个 18 岁的年轻人成天瘫在沙发上无所事事，这种懒散的长期代价在短期内是隐蔽且难以察觉的；但如果他去练格斗，缺乏自律的代价每周都会具象化——动作慢半拍或者训练偷懒，鼻子就会被当场打断，这种痛感会逼着一个人迅速把生活拉回正轨。第二点则是 Tom 那句震撼全场的坦白：“我是世界第一，但我依然害怕和任何人动手。” Tom 澄清，自己热爱的只是职业擂台上的竞技，而在现实生活中，与人发生身体冲突是他最极力避免的事情。不仅如此，他甚至坦白自己在职业层面对每一个对手都心怀敬畏与恐惧。在包括拳击、踢拳、摔跤和综合格斗（MMA）在内的所有格斗运动中，“恐惧”一直是一个极度忌讳被摆上台面的话题。大众眼中的 Tom 是一个身高 6 英尺 5 英寸（约 196 cm）、体重 115 公斤、布满文身且长着摔跤手标志性“饺子耳”（cauliflower ears）的庞然大物。要在公开场合承认恐惧，对于一个世界重量级霸主来说看似违和，但 Tom 发现，真正理解恐惧后，它反而成了无与伦比的驱动力。 格斗圈里常有一类被称为“拳馆战神”（gym warrior）的选手：他们在平时的馆内实战中表现堪称完美，可一旦真正站到赛场聚光灯下，发挥却一落千丈。Tom 指出，这种现象的根源就在于他们无法正视和驾驭恐惧。相反，Tom 已经学会完全接纳恐惧，将其转化为专注力。他直白地表示，如果有选手声称自己走进八角笼时毫无畏惧，那这个人“要么是在自欺欺人，要么就是个彻头彻尾的蠢蛋”——当两万多名观众在现场嘶吼、全球数百万人紧盯屏幕、母亲可能正平生第一次在看台注视着你，而对面站着一个苦练了 10 周、随时可能一拳把你打到失去意识的对手时，没有任何正常人会不感到恐惧。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 面对恐惧的两种心态与表现 accDescr: 对比拳馆战神与真正顶尖冠军在面对恐惧时的心理机制与赛场结果 subgraph GymWarrior ["拳馆战神 (Gym Warrior)"] A1["馆内实战表现出色"] --> B1["忌讳、抗拒或无法理解恐惧"] B1 --> C1["站上聚光灯与八角笼"] C1 --> D1["心理崩溃，赛场发挥严重失常"] end subgraph ChampionMindset ["冠军心智 (Tom Aspinall)"] A2["刻苦训练与体能储备"] --> B2["正视并接纳内心的恐惧"] B2 --> C2["将恐惧转化为专注与动力"] C2 --> D2["聚光灯下心理从容，稳定释放战斗力"] end ``` ### [32:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1923s) 八成靠心态：从催眠疗法到一万次脑海演练 在训练层面，Tom 认为备战期大约是 80% 依靠身体、20% 依靠心理；然而，一旦到了比赛当晚，头顶照耀着炽热刺眼的灯光，耳边回荡着山呼海啸般的呐喊，戴上薄薄的分指拳套面对半裸上身的凶悍对手，这个比例便彻底颠倒——比赛变成了超过 80% 取决于心理状态。在日常备战中，格斗选手通常每天要进行 3 到 5 个小时的高强度身体训练，再加上拉伸、饮食控制、睡眠、理疗与桑拿，几乎一整天 24 小时都在为打磨肉体而服务。如果去问世界排名前十的顶尖选手，至少有一半人会承认“心理比身体更重要”，然而现实中大部分人格斗家花费在心理建设上的时间却近乎于零。Tom 注意到了这种巨大的失衡，因此他建立了一套严苛的“心灵健身房”日常。 Tom 详细拆解了自己的心理训练方法： - **专业催眠治疗（Hypnotherapy）**：与专门的催眠治疗师长期合作，理顺深层潜意识。 - **书写与可视化目标**：把思考与警句写在纸上，放置在视线所及之处反复观看强化。 - **高强度的心理技战术重复（Mental Drilling）**：格斗中反复打磨组合拳叫作“打磨/钻研”（drilling），而 Tom 会将此概念移植到大脑中。比如每一次选手登场出场（walkout），在真正迈步走出通道前，他在脑海中早已无比逼真地演练过 10,000 次。当他真正走在灯光下时，大脑早已对这处境习以为常。 - **拥抱当下并享受过程**：Tom 意识到自己职业生涯已过半，退役那天终会到来。八角笼铁门关上的瞬间是残酷的，但也正是最独特、最值得珍视的高光时刻。他练习让自己专注于当下并享受过程，而不是像很多被结果彻底压垮的拳手那样，因沉重的输赢焦虑而错失了身处巅峰的壮丽体验。 ### [36:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2210s) 极简的“显化与书写”心态 对于心理调整，汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）强调，在当下享受过程是他发挥出最佳水平的前提。主持人谈及他之前提到的“具象化（visualization）”和动笔写下目标的习惯，询问这是否有一套复杂的流程。阿斯皮纳尔澄清说，很多人把具象化想象成神神叨叨的“玄学”（woo-woo），以为必须坐在那里摆弄水晶、听奇怪的音乐打坐冥想，但事实完全不是这样。对他来说，这个过程极其简单：只要拿出一张纸，写下“这周我要做成这件事，并且享受其中”，或者“今年我要打赢两场比赛，享受这两场比赛，发挥出最好的状态”，然后时不时拿出来读一读即可。 他并不是那种会在每年年初隆重制作一张“愿景板（vision board）”的人。他更倾向于随性而为，只要心里有想法就会顺手写在纸上，放在床头柜或显眼的位置。感到迷茫或醒来觉得焦虑时，他就会拿起纸条反复默读同一句话，随后放下，让其沉浸在潜意识里。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Tom Aspinall's Mental Grounding Process accDescr: A simple 3-step loop showing how Tom writes simple notes, keeps them at his bedside, and reads them during anxiety. A["心生想法或遭遇困境"] --> B["随手写下极简肯定句<br/>（如：事情正在对我有利）"] B --> C["放置在床头柜等显眼处"] C --> D["焦虑或晨起时拿出默读"] D --> E["内化心理暗示，重拾定力"] ``` ### [38:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2294s) 应对与乔恩·琼斯对决的停滞期与焦虑 阿斯皮纳尔透露，由于近期职业生涯处于一种前所未有的诡异状态，他特意写下了一句话：“一切都在对我有利（Things are working for me）。”以往他的生活极其规律且高度程序化：收到比赛通知、展开备战训练营、打完比赛、短暂休整，随后再进入下一场循环；期间需要投入多少精力、聘请哪些陪练，全都规划得清清楚楚。然而当下围绕他与乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）的潜在对决牵涉了太多复杂的综合格斗政治博弈，使他陷入了完全不知下一步会发生什么的悬置状态（limbo）。 在这种不确定性中，人很容易产生负面联想，甚至觉得整个世界都在暗中针对自己。正因如此，他把纸条放在床头以对抗消极思维：尽管局势不在自己的掌控之内，他也无法凭一己之力改变局面，但他要坚信这一切最终都会向好的方向发展。主持人提到，也许此时此刻白大拿（Dana White）随时会发短信告知“搞定了，开打”。阿斯皮纳尔坦言自己时刻在保持训练，即便接到通知要求在六周后出战他也随时奉陪。虽然在他看来这场比赛是粉丝呼声最高、最渴盼的一战，但他也很享受置身于这种万众瞩目的历史级大战风暴中心的快感。 ### [40:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2433s) 综合格斗的残酷现实：极低的经济回报 谈到万众瞩目的超级大战，阿斯皮纳尔感慨人们往往只看到处于金字塔顶端的拳手全球飞、赚大钱、拿金腰带，却忽略了他此前打过无数场根本无人问津的比赛。很多早期比赛台下只有一百名观众，打完一场仅仅拿到 100 英镑现金，根本“没人在乎你输赢”。综合格斗（MMA）是一项极其艰难的运动，每当有家长在街上向他请教自家孩子练 MMA 该给什么建议时，他的第一反应往往是：“一定要准备备选方案（backup plan）。” 为了证明这个行业生存之艰难，阿斯皮纳尔分享了自己即将去观摩的一场地方本土赛事。该赛事有约 20 场对阵、40 名拳手出战，现场也会有数千名观众。前一天晚上他和朋友聊起这 40 名高水平选手中究竟能有几人打进 UFC、通过这项运动赚到钱时，他的结论非常冰冷而真实： - 这 40 名选手里，如果最终能有**一个人**能靠 MMA 挣钱买得起一套房子，都会让他感到极其震惊。 - 绝大多数普通人甚至有才华的运动员，在英国缺乏清晰的职业晋升路径，生存举步维艰。 - 尽管过去几年英国有成千上万的孩子接触这项运动，但真正能赚取巨额财富并安身立命的只有凤毛麟角的顶尖人物（如康纳·麦格雷戈、伊恩·加里、帕迪·皮姆布莱特、里昂·爱德华兹等）。 - 在他常年混迹拳馆的经历中，他直言“95% 的综合格斗选手单场比赛收入从未超过 5,000 英镑”。 ### [43:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2606s) 从业余百元补贴到 UFC 商业价值飙升 阿斯皮纳尔回忆了自己的早期薪酬轨迹。在转为职业前，他打了 9 场业余比赛（这在当时算相当丰富的业余经历），那时的收入完全依赖卖门票提成——一张门票卖 30 英镑，选手只能拿到 5 英镑的分成。整整 9 场业余比赛下来，他单场收入仅在 50 至 100 英镑之间，业余生涯总共赚了还不到 1,000 英镑。 在进入 UFC 之前，他打了大约 7 场职业比赛，其第一场职业 MMA 比赛的出场费也仅有 200 英镑。直到进入 UFC，拳手才能真正依靠这项运动维持体面生计。阿斯皮纳尔指出自己非常幸运，因为他拥有极具“观众缘（fan-friendly）”的暴力打法——尤其在重量级，缺乏技术鉴赏力的普通观众最渴望看到的就是两个庞然大物在八角笼里对轰、一人被彻底击晕倒地的场面，而这正是他的拿手好戏。 - **闪电终结纪录**：阿斯皮纳尔保持着 UFC 历史上平均比赛用时最短的世界纪录，平均每场在两分钟内就能击倒或降服对手，这使他成为极具票房号召力的超级选手。 - **UFC 新人标准薪酬结构**：一般通过地区赛事签约的新人拳手，基础合同通常遵循“10k + 10k”（10,000 美元出场费 + 10,000 美元获胜奖金）模式；尽管在其他大赛事有声望的选手合同会更优厚，但他是靠着连续闪电终结的观赏性，以惊人的速度跨越了合同层级并获得丰厚回报。 ### [46:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2762s) UFC 新人合同与薪酬晋升规则 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）回忆起自己刚进入 UFC 时的合同细节。通常情况下，新人的起步出场费（Show money）在 1 万到 1.5 万美元之间，获胜奖金（Win bonus）通常与出场费等额。他当时签的要么是“1 万保底加 1 万胜场奖”（10k and 10k），要么是“1.2 万加 1.2 万”（12k and 12k）。UFC 通常会给新人一份四场比赛的合同，但这绝非铁饭碗——赛事方有权在任何一场比赛后随时解除合约。如果选手打了一场沉闷无聊的“臭拳”（stinker），哪怕赢了比赛，UFC 也有可能直接让其走人。 如果一切顺利，新人的薪酬会在连胜中逐步攀升，例如从 10k/10k 涨到 12k/12k、14k/14k 再到 16k/16k，四场全胜累计大概能拿到 8 万多美元；但如果一直输，每场只能拿底薪 1 万美元，四场加起来也只有 4 万美元。更残酷的是，如果赢了两场晋升到 14k/14k 却输掉了第三场，第四场可能就会被直接打回 12k/12k 的水平。 比赛的精彩程度和市场号召力在续约谈判中起着决定性作用。汤姆坦言自己非常幸运，因为英国拳迷对本土选手极其狂热和支持。在凭借两个首回合终结对手后，UFC 在两场比赛后就迫不及待地与他重新签署了一份大幅加薪的新合同，而不是硬等打满四场。新合同的出场费依然在“几万”的区间，但已经涨到了 5 万美元左右。针对主持人提到像伊恩·马查多·加里（Ian Machado Garry）同样从笼斗锦标赛（Cage Warriors）进军 UFC 是否起薪也是 5 万时，汤姆表示各人情况不一，但自己确实是从最底层的 10k 或 12k 一步一步打上来的。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: UFC 新人薪酬进阶与风险流程 accDescr: 展示 UFC 新人签约合同结构，包括基础出场费、胜场奖金晋升路径以及表现不佳被解约的风险。 subgraph ContractStart["初始合同（4 场）"] A["起步底薪：10k-15k 出场费<br/>胜场奖金：等额匹配（如 10k+10k）"] end subgraph PerformancePath["比赛表现与结果"] B{"比赛结果与观赏性"} C["精彩终结 / 连胜"] D["遭遇失利"] E["场面沉闷 / 表现极差"] end subgraph FinancialOutcome["薪酬变动"] F["梯级上涨（12k/12k ➔ 14k/14k）<br/>或提前重签高薪大合同"] G["薪酬倒退至上一档<br/>仅拿保底出场费"] H["随时被 UFC 单方面裁员解约"] end A --> B B -->|"首回合终结/表现亮眼"| C B -->|"比赛打输"| D B -->|"即便是获胜"| E C --> F D --> G E --> H ``` ### [48:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=2897s) 首笔六位数报酬：临危受命对决谢尔盖·帕夫洛维奇 选手究竟何时才能拿到六位数的大额出场费？汤姆指出，除了连胜之外，关键在于“人们是否渴望看你打比赛”，市场号召力与竞技水平同样重要。而他迎来职业生涯薪酬分水岭的转折点，是 2023 年 11 月迎战谢尔盖·帕夫洛维奇（Sergei Pavlovich）的临时重量级冠军战。 当时原本的头条主赛选手因伤退赛，UFC 急需有人站出来挽救赛事。汤姆在仅有两周通知期（Two weeks notice）的极端情况下毅然接下了这场争冠大战。因为 UFC 迫切需要他来救场，他借此谈下了一份极为优厚的合同，迎来了人生第一笔六位数的出场费。这场比赛的报酬比他以往任何一场比赛翻了一倍还多，也是他当时拿过最大的一笔奖金。 - **薪酬突破点**：2023 年 11 月 UFC 295，临危受命对战谢尔盖·帕夫洛维奇争夺 UFC 重量级临时冠军。 - **短期救场的商业议价权**：赛事方处于“需要选手救场”的被动地位，让拳手获得了打破常规合同的议价空间。 - **六位数回报**：单场收入较以往最高纪录翻倍以上，并在随后夺冠卫冕战中拿到了更高的酬劳。 ### [50:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3018s) 漫长积累：二十三年苦练换来的“一朝成名” 主持人感叹道，对于曼彻斯特索尔福德（Salford）那些梦想靠打拳改变命运的孩子来说，这笔六位数报酬背后是沉重且漫长的代价：汤姆从七八岁开始训练，直到 30 岁才在重量级争冠战中拿到六位数的单场收入，整整苦熬了 23 年。如果把他的成长路径画成图表，前面是极为平缓甚至停滞的漫长横线，随后才在极短时间内出现断崖式的大爆发。 人们常说“所谓的‘一朝成名’往往需要付出多年的苦功”，汤姆对此深以为然。他始终坚信，在竞技体育中，“比所有人都能熬、坚持得更久”（outlasting people）往往比纯粹的天赋更能决定最终的结局。这 23 年里，他曾数次萌生退意，甚至真的放弃过综合格斗几次。每次面临崩溃边缘，他的父亲总会把他拉回来：“汤姆，你必须认真想想，你整个人生都在为之付出，千万别在现在放弃。”许多父母可能在孩子受挫时会说“你已经尽力了，放弃吧”，但汤姆的父母和身边最亲近的人始终无条件相信他的潜力，在背后推着他跨过每一次想放弃的坎。 ### [52:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3140s) 人生至暗时刻：三个嗷嗷待哺的孩子与入不敷出的绝境 汤姆坦言，退役念头最强烈、生活最艰难的阶段往往伴随着伤病和打不上比赛的空窗期。如今他贵为冠军，粉丝渴望看他比赛，赛事方安排大战，动辄涉及数百万美元；但在当年，根本没有任何人在乎他是谁，更没有比赛打。 22 岁那年，他的妻子怀上了第一个孩子，他在 23 岁初为人父。到了 24 岁，妻子再度怀孕，而且查出是双胞胎。25 岁时，汤姆已经成了三个孩子的父亲。然而当时的他身无分文，银行账户里空空如也： > “我心里一直怀揣着那个狂热的梦想，梦想着自己成为国际巨星、银行账户里有几百万英镑、拿着金腰带周游世界。但现实是，我身在大曼彻斯特的阿瑟顿（Atherton），窗外下着冷雨，我穷到连给车加油的钱都没有，而楼上三个孩子还在号啕大哭。” 这种生活让汤姆感到极度的自尊受挫。作为一个丈夫和父亲，却无法给妻儿提供最基础的物质保障，这种无力感在精神上折磨着他。尽管身边的亲友依然支持他的梦想，从未当面嘲笑他“活在幻想里、赶紧去找个正经工作养家”，但他能深切感受到无形的压力，总觉得别人心里会这么想。 那段时间，他的生活完全陷入了“生存模式”：每天去外地高强度训练，很少有着家的时候；即便拖着筋疲力尽的身体回到家，楼上的孩子哭闹不止，整夜无法合眼，妻子也满腹委屈，而自己甚至连生活费都拿不出。更绝望的是，拼尽全力备战了几个月，比赛却在开打前一周突然被取消。回望 25 岁带三个孩子的岁月，汤姆直言当时自己在心智上极度不成熟，根本承担不起家庭、妻子与职业起步的沉重责任。最近有朋友得知妻子怀了双胞胎向他取经时，汤姆非常坦率地回答：“这是我这辈子经历过最艰难的事，双胞胎出生后的第一年，我痛苦忙碌到甚至对那一年毫无记忆。” ### [55:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3355s) 早期窘迫：借钱加油买尿布与不被看好的追梦路 回顾双胞胎出生后的岁月，汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）坦承那是一段极度煎熬的时光。困难不仅在于照顾婴儿的繁重劳累，更在于财务上的彻底困境——生活仿佛停滞不前，他既想过年轻人的生活，肩上却又扛着养家糊口、照料多位幼儿的巨大责任。尽管如此，他明确表示“打死也不会换掉这段经历”，因为正是这番磨难彻底塑造了如今的自己，让他对当下的成就感到由衷自豪。当主持人斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）问及是否有过令人难忘的“人生最低谷”（比如加油时身无分文或独处时脑中冒出阴暗念头），汤姆表示自己始终庆幸拥有三个健康漂亮的孩子并能坚持追梦，但他内心最痛苦的事，莫过于向别人借钱。 对汤姆来说，低头向人伸手要钱就是他的“终极噩梦”。在职业生涯早期，他不得不反复找父亲借大笔钱，甚至还要向朋友借零钱，仅仅是为了给破车加点油好开去拳馆训练。外人看在眼里，往往会觉得他是在追逐一场脱离现实的荒唐幻想，心想：“这家伙到底在干什么？他难道不该找份正经工作好好养家吗？”汤姆承认这些声音很多来自于外界审视，但也深植于自己的内疚之中。为了熬到六周后一场仅赚 600 英镑的比赛，他不得不靠借钱买婴儿尿布和汽油勉强度日，等拿到出场费后再紧巴巴地还给朋友 20 英镑。 - **早年比赛报酬**：一场小比赛仅能获得约 600 英镑（约合 600 quid），生活费极度匮乏。 - **内心最大梦魇**：向父亲和身边的朋友频繁借钱度日，连给汽车加油、给孩子买尿布都需要东拼西凑。 --- ### [58:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3493s) 家庭后盾：妻子 Justina 的理解与无路可退的 MMA 泥潭 在养育三个孩子且经济极度拮据的重压下，任何夫妻关系都会面临巨大的考验。汤姆表示，经营一段长久的关系本就不易，但他们最终挺了过来，建立起一个极其坚固的家庭纽带。作为一名父亲，陪伴孩子、给他们积极的人生体验是他心中超越一切的首要职责。他明白父母无法强行塑造孩子成为某种特定的人——虽然三个孩子在完全相同的环境下长大，性格却截然不同，做父亲能做的就是尽可能引导他们、给予温暖。 汤姆特别提到了自己的妻子贾斯蒂娜（Justina）。两人从 19 岁就在一起，当时汤姆就已经确立了要成为职业拳手的终极梦想。贾斯蒂娜不仅从一开始就全力支持他，更在他无数次产生退意、想要放弃 MMA 的关头拉住了他。汤姆分析指出，普通女性面对这种毫无经济保障的家庭窘境往往会施加巨大的压力，但贾斯蒂娜、他的父母以及少数几位密友从未动摇。相比足球运动员有着从草根球队到梯队青训、12 或 13 岁签约专业俱乐部的清晰晋升阶梯，MMA 综合格斗在 95% 的时间里都是“在黑暗中盲目摸索前行”，缺乏安全网，因而家人的绝对信任才是他撑下来的唯一支柱。 - **伴侣支持**：汤姆与妻子 Justina 19 岁相识相恋，她多次在汤姆面临崩溃边缘时阻止了他放弃格斗。 - **行业残酷对比**：足球运动拥有完善的职业青训阶梯（如 12-13 岁进入专业俱乐部体系），而 MMA 选手绝大多数时间都处于前途未卜、毫无稳定保障的盲目摸索中。 --- ### [01:00:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3616s) 厚积薄发：从长久沉寂到瞬间崛起与商业赞助 斯蒂芬指出，汤姆的职业生涯就像一条长时间贴地行进的平缓曲线，却在极短的时间内陡然垂直爆发——从早年几乎零收入的沉寂，到 2023 年把握住替补出场的机会夺得 UFC 重量级临时冠军头衔，一切发生了翻天覆地的跃迁。相比赛场上的老牌名将，汤姆以“新面孔”的姿态迅速登顶。汤姆对此表示赞同，他认为老一代冠军正在淡出视野，新一代力量正在接管八角笼，这是体育历史发展的必然进程。 （随后的节目中插播了网络合规与安全自动化平台 Vanta 的赞助信息，介绍了该服务在简化 SOC 2、ISO 27001 等 35 项合规流程上的优势与客户节省成本的案例。） --- ### [01:02:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3728s) 命运的转折点：黑盒里的旧护膝与 O2 体育馆断腿惨剧 插播结束后，斯蒂芬指着桌前的一个黑盒子，里面装着一件代表汤姆职业生涯最关键转折点的物件。汤姆笑着自嘲里面的东西“其实没啥刺激的，说不定还发臭”，拿出来后确认那是一只陈旧的护膝（knee pad）。汤姆揭开了这只护膝背后沉重而戏剧性的往事：早在经济窘迫的早年，他的膝盖就已遭受严重损伤，但当时他距离打进 UFC 只差一两场胜利，根本不敢停下治疗。打进 UFC 后，他在膝伤未愈的情况下接连获胜，甚至逐渐习惯了“单腿作战”的荒谬状态。 为了维持胜利的势头和履行 UFC 合同，他长期只用一条腿进行实战训练，右腿既不敢踢击也不能受力。这种透支身体的危险走钢丝最终在伦敦 O2 体育馆迎来了毁灭性的结局。在两万五千名狂热主场观众的注视下，这场原本能够直接决定 UFC 重量级冠军挑战权归属的淘汰赛（Title Eliminator）才刚刚开局，汤姆的膝盖就在擂台上彻底崩塌脱臼。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 膝伤恶化至爆发及心理蜕变轨迹 accDescr: 展示汤姆从早年带伤坚持、习惯单腿作战，到伦敦主场重伤倒地，最后经历手术反思完成心智蜕变的全过程。 subgraph Phase1["带伤前行 (隐患累积)"] A["早年膝盖严重受损<br/>(因生计不敢暂停比赛)"] --> B["签约并征战UFC<br/>(长期单腿训练、不踢不跪)"] end subgraph Phase2["灾难爆发 (O2惨剧)"] B --> C["伦敦 O2 体育馆头条主赛<br/>(25,000名主场观众见证)"] C --> D["开局膝盖彻底崩塌脱臼<br/>(痛失冠军挑战权与比赛)"] end subgraph Phase3["深层蜕变 (职业转折)"] D --> E["术后漫长康复与不确定性<br/>(甚至面临职业生涯终结)"] E --> F["心智全面觉醒与生活复盘<br/>(审视人际圈与错误习惯)"] end ``` - **现场规模与重要性**：在伦敦 O2 体育馆 25,000 名主场车轮战般的欢呼下，作为头条主赛争夺下一个冠军挑战权。 - **心理落差与心智成长**：汤姆直言，如果在八角笼里拼尽全力展示训练成果后被对手击倒（KO），他完全可以坦然接受；然而以开局受重伤、无法行走的结局落败，甚至面临职业生涯彻底终结的绝境，让他经历了人生中前所未有的至暗时刻。但他强调，正是这次严重的膝伤逼迫他放慢脚步，反思自己在个人生活与职业发展中所犯下的种种错误，从而换来了整个人生中最大的一次心智成长。 ### [01:05:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3908s) 跌入谷底与人生重构：割除身边的有毒之人 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）坦白回顾了自己在重伤之前的生活状态：当时他的身边充斥着许多本不该存在的人。他跟着不合适的人一起训练，参加着纯粹浪费时间的训练课，在饮食管理与身体恢复上也十分糟糕。由于进入 UFC 后的战绩一直顺风顺水，带着一种搏击运动员特有的“迷信”心理，他即便清楚身边环境出了大问题、也深知有毒的人群正在消耗自己，却始终不敢主动做出任何改变，总觉得“既然一切顺利，就别去打破节奏”。 真正的当头棒喝发生在他在八角笼中遭遇断腿重伤的那一瞬间。阿斯皮纳尔形容那是他真正跌入人生谷底的时刻——坐在伦敦 O2 体育馆的八角笼擂台地面上，一条腿高高抬起动弹不得，而现场专程为他而来的 25,000 名狂热主场观众却开始默默离场。“那是一种糟糕透顶的感觉”，这种切肤之痛彻底逼迫他停下脚步，重新审视过往的每一个决定。 这场灾难成为了他人生的分水岭。阿斯皮纳尔直言，伤病前后的自己完全判若两人。他不仅在身体形态和灵活性上完成了重构——用他的调侃来说，“以前我只有一条腿在打，现在我有两条健全的腿，感觉好太多了”——更在心智上实现了质的飞跃。他开始以铁腕手段清理生活圈子，彻底切断一切负能量，把任何无助于他成为“世界最强重量级拳手”的人和事全部扫地出门。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 伤病前后的心态转变 accDescr: 展示从盲目连胜到重伤停滞，再到心智重建与清理生活圈的演变流程。 subgraph Before["伤病前：顺境中的盲目"] A["快速成名与不断连胜"] --> B["不良饮食与低效训练"] B --> C["迷信现状不敢变革<br/>包容身边的有毒人群"] end subgraph Bottom["谷底转折：O2 擂台重伤"] C --> D["开局 15 秒严重膝伤倒地"] D --> E["目睹两万五千名观众离场<br/>被迫卧床休整六个月"] end subgraph Rebuild["伤病后：彻底觉醒与重构"] E --> F["慢下来审视人生定位"] F --> G["彻底切割负面与无效人际关系"] G --> H["身体与心智全面进化为完全体"] end ``` ### [01:08:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4093s) 六个月卧床养伤：退役动摇与被舆论质疑假伤 进入 UFC 之后，阿斯皮纳尔始终处于急速飞驰的状态，一场接一场地打比赛，名气、采访、曝光度与收入暴增，作为运动员乃至作为一个人，他此前从未有机会慢下来反思。直到膝盖动了大手术，他在沙发上整整躺了六个月，腿上留着巨大的伤口无法行走，每天只能做枯燥的物理治疗。 在长达半年的卧床期中，阿斯皮纳尔甚至一度萌生了彻底“挂拳套退役”的念头。当时他虽然没有赚到几千几万的大钱，但已经买下了房产，银行账户里的积蓄足够维持体面的生活水平；而且他在 UFC 已经打出了名堂，杀入了重量级前十甚至前五边缘，比绝大多数同行走得都远。他心想：“我已经赚够了生活费，何不就此打住，见好就收？” 更让他内心深受煎熬的是外界的舆论审判。由于这场对决在开局仅仅 15 秒就因伤猝死，根本算不上一场真正打过的比赛，网络上充斥着怀疑的声音，许多人断定他是因为畏惧对手柯蒂斯·布莱兹（Curtis Blaydes）火热的连胜势头而“诈伤退出”。“我觉得很多人认为是我根本不敢和布莱兹打，这让当时的我极度缺乏安全感。”伤痛与被质疑的屈辱混杂在一起，在他心里烙下了深深的芥蒂与好胜心。 ### [01:10:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4222s) 拒绝平庸与重回巅峰：必须完成的两件事 在沙发上休养时，虽然极力克制，阿斯皮纳尔还是忍不住去翻看网上的负面评论。甚至身边也有人开始劝他顺坡下驴：“你口才这么好，媒体经验又丰富，完全可以转型去当赛事解说员。”在最消沉的时刻，他几乎认同了这种退路。 然而，网络黑粉的冷嘲热讽最终激发了他骨子里的叛逆与骄傲。他突然猛醒：“我到底在干什么？我居然在听那些平庸普通人的意见，任由他们往我的大脑里灌输普通人的思维。但我绝不是一个普通人，我是世界顶尖的精英运动员！我从不甘于平庸，更不能让普通人来定义我的极限。”正是黑粉的嘲笑与看衰，彻底将他的斗志点燃，让他下定决心绝不能以这种窝囊的方式退场。 这种伤痛并未摧毁他的擂台自信，反而被他化为必须亲手拔除的心魔。为了能心安理得地作为一个人继续生活，他给自己立下了两件必须完成的事： - **与柯蒂斯·布莱兹二番战**：他无法容忍自己经过漫长苦练却在八角笼里毫无表现就草草结束，哪怕技不如人被打输，也必须在拳台上拼到底才能问心无愧； - **重返伦敦 O2 体育馆领衔主赛**：对于英国本土拳手而言，O2 体育馆是圣殿一般的存在，他绝不接受自己的 O2 记忆永远停留在被担架抬走的至暗一刻。 阿斯皮纳尔随后在复出战中重登 O2 体育馆豪取胜利，并在后续与布莱兹的二番战中成功复仇，亲手划掉了这两块压在心头的心病。 ### [01:12:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4363s) 谈及乔恩·琼斯：厌倦被问、敬畏传奇与承认恐惧 当话题转到乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）时，阿斯皮纳尔忍不住苦笑坦承：“关于他，我真的已经说得想吐了。”外界总有一种错觉，以为是汤姆整天在蹭琼斯的热度，但现实是无论走到哪里，所有媒体和拳迷追问的唯一焦点都是这场堪称 UFC 历史上最受瞩目的重量级天王山对决。 抛开场外无休止的公关纠缠，阿斯皮纳尔从纯粹的格斗迷视角对琼斯表达了至高的敬意。他明确表示，琼斯在八角笼内的历史成就是不可磨灭的传奇，至于对方在八角笼外的各种法律官司与个人生活纠纷，自己完全不了解也毫无兴趣置评。但在铁笼之内，琼斯毫无疑问是戴上过 UFC 手套的最伟大格斗家之一。 当被主持人问及“你是否对与琼斯交手感到恐惧”时，阿斯皮纳尔毫不避讳地承认：“绝对恐惧。如果我不怕他，那我就是个彻头彻尾的蠢货。”他特别推崇琼斯无与伦比的极高智商——这不仅体现在八角笼内对战局近乎冷酷的掌控力和战术拆解上，更体现在琼斯于笼外精明绝顶的商业运作，以及为自身职业生涯精准挑选对手的每一步算计之中。 ### [01:14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4483s) Jon Jones 的比赛智商与战术统治力 主持人向汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）求证，Jon Jones 是否一直在挑选风格上与自己完美契合、或是已经严重走下坡路的选手，甚至借此回避可能击败他的对手。阿斯皮纳尔毫不避讳地承认这绝对是“天才般的策略”（absolute genius），Jones 极其聪明地在最正确的时间节点选择了最有利的对手。当主持人希望他以通俗易懂的方式解析 Jones 的格斗智商（Fight IQ）时，阿斯皮纳尔指出，Jones 最可怕的技术壁垒在于他拥有“迫使任何顶尖高手完全按照他的节奏与风格去打比赛”的绝对控制力。Jones 拥有极其固定且深谙的舒适区风格，并且从不冒险跳出该范畴去被动适应别人的打法，这在技术层面上是极难做到的顶尖统治力。 阿斯皮纳尔回忆起自己坐在八角笼近在咫尺的场边观看 Jon Jones 对阵斯蒂佩·米欧奇（Stipe Miocic）的比赛。尽管外界看到了 Jones 的绝对碾压，但阿斯皮纳尔直言，米欧奇当时已经42岁，职业生涯积累了巨大的身体磨损，状态早已完全脱离了巅峰期。从技术与身体硬件剖析，Jones 本质上是一名轻重量级选手，但他拥有极其罕见的长臂展与腿长；此前在轻重量级时，他的对手大多由中量级升重而来，Jones 借此将距离控制与节奏把控发挥到了格斗历史的极致。而当他升入重量级后，挑选的对手一个是缺乏地面缠斗防守能力的西里尔·盖恩（Ciryl Gane），另一个则是42岁高龄的米欧奇。 阿斯皮纳尔由衷赞叹 Jones 的技术展现就像一门艺术：从8岁便开始修习武术的阿斯皮纳尔看来，在最高压力的环境下面对精英选手展现出如此细腻的时机感（timing）与距离控制，确实叹为观止。现代综合格斗（MMA）的职业选手在拳、腿、肘、膝、摔跤和柔术降服上基本都达到了全能的高水平，但 Jones 与众不同的终极核心在于——“他能在八角笼里，在对手完全意料不到的时刻，按自己的标准和条件来完成这一切”（he does everything on his terms inside the octagon）。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Jon Jones 的八角笼战术控制逻辑 accDescr: 展示 Jon Jones 如何凭借身体硬件、距离管理与精准选人将比赛完全拖入自己的节奏 subgraph Hardware["硬件与距离优势"] A["罕见的臂展与腿长"] --> B["顶级的距离控制与时机感"] end subgraph Selection["战术与选人策略"] C["针对对手风格缺陷<br>(如地面防守弱或年龄偏大)"] --> D["将比赛强行纳入自身舒适区"] end Hardware --> E["在自身设定的规则下终结对手"] Selection --> E ``` - **距离与摔跤的极致结合**：Jones 拥有 MMA 历史上数一数二的摔跤与掌控力，善于利用超长打击距离迫使对手无法进入输出节奏。 - **全能选手的本质分水岭**：现代顶尖拳手几乎在站立打击与地面缠斗上都经过严苛训练，但唯独 Jones 能将比赛从始至终牢牢框死在自己的节奏内。 --- ### [01:19:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4760s) 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔对阵琼斯的优势与“神秘底牌” 谈及若与 Jones 交手该如何破局，阿斯皮纳尔表示自己绝不会过度痴迷于未签约的假想战，但在日常训练的潜意识里早已反复推演。他直言，自己所具备的优势是 Jones 职业生涯从未面对过的：自己体型远比 Jones 曾经的所有对手都庞大，正处于迈向绝对巅峰的上升期（预计距生理和技术巅峰还有一年左右），更具备超越任何重量级选手的爆发力与运动天赋。更关键的区别在于决策能力（decision-making），在重量级人人都具备一击必杀的重拳威力，但阿斯皮纳尔自信自己的临场临界决策力是全 MMA 领域“最精英中的精英”（elite elite）。相比年长他11至12岁且伤痕累累的米欧奇，年轻饥饿的阿斯皮纳尔在身体硬件与技术储备上全面占优。 主持人提到外界对阿斯皮纳尔的刻板印象：他保持着 UFC 历史平均结束比赛时间最短的世界纪录（平均每场仅用时两分多钟），人们通常认为他的策略必然是一开场就暴风骤雨般压上重拳终结，而 Jones 也会如此防备。阿斯皮纳尔对此兴奋地表示，他非常享受对手把他的比赛看简单，甚至沉迷于保持这种“神秘感”（I like being a bit of a mystery）。外界经常质疑他从未打过深水区的长回合、体能储备未知，阿斯皮纳尔反驳道：“那不是我的问题，那是那些挡不住我攻击的对手的问题。”他从未在踏入笼子前刻意追求速胜，重击终结只是顺理成章的自然结果。 这种速杀纪录反而构成了对抗 Jones 的最大战术优势。Jones 以沉迷研究对手比赛录像、深度剖析移动模式与出招习惯而闻名，但面对阿斯皮纳尔，Jones 在公开渠道上甚至找不到一段超过三到四分钟的长镜头录像。阿斯皮纳尔认为，缺乏足够的录像数据甚至可能是让 Jones 迟迟不愿签字应战的隐秘不安全感来源之一。阿斯皮纳尔透露，虽然针对 Jones 的具体作战方案属于高度机密，但他早已在脑海中无数次慢放演练过每一个技术细节，而那套克敌策略所依据的人性弱点与物理法则，已被格斗历史一次又一次地反复验证。 - **UFC 历史最短平均时长纪录**：单场平均比赛时间刚过两分钟，极快的速胜效率使他从未展现过全部技术库（摔跤、缠斗降服与后半程节奏转换）。 - **录像研究（Film Study）的盲区**：Jones 极其依赖对手的习惯模式分析，阿斯皮纳尔极短的比赛样本剥夺了对手团队制定针对性战术的数据支持。 ### [01:24:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5040s) 一击必杀与隐藏的打法秘密 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）谈及自己的重拳威力时显得既平静又充满绝对的自信。他坦言，有时自己也会觉得难以置信，但他现在心里非常笃定：只要他用尽全力击中一个人的面部且结结实实命中，对手就必然会陷入昏迷。这一事实已经在 UFC 最顶级的精英较量中被反复验证过多次，“所以我只需要打中一拳，一切就结束了。”现场随即响起一阵玩笑，斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）打趣说现场正好有团队成员杰克（Jack）可以用来测试一下威力，阿斯皮纳尔笑着回应：“杰克，我今天可不会对你动手。” 谈到测力仪上的打击力量时，阿斯皮纳尔十分坦诚地表示，无论是在机器测试中还是现实生活里，绝对力量比他大的大有人在。但他之所以能频频上演一击必杀，核心在于他打击的时机与隐蔽性：“我总是在人们完全意想不到的瞬间出拳，那种看不见的重拳才是最伤人的，而且我会用特定的方式去掩护出拳意图。”他在自己的 YouTube 频道以及社交社群平台 Skool（巴特利特曾采访过的亚历克斯·霍尔莫齐 Alex Hormozi 亦持有该平台股份）上会分享通用技术与战术思维，但他坚决不会展示自己真正的格斗全貌与私人打法风格，“那是只有我和我的教练团队才能掌握的机密。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Aspinall's Strike Philosophy accDescr: Flowchart illustrating Tom Aspinall's striking approach from camouflage to knockout subgraph Preparation["战术布局与出拳隐藏"] A["打法伪装与假动作掩护"] --> B["捕捉防守盲区与出拳时机"] end subgraph Impact["命中与终结"] B --> C["出其不意的突袭重拳"] C --> D["单拳精准命中 (一击必杀)"] end ``` --- ### [01:25:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5128s) 顶尖体能的日常：50%恢复法则、饮食监测与睡眠自律 针对普通人如何保持精英级身体状态的问题，阿斯皮纳尔分享了自己随着年岁渐长总结出的养生与训练哲学。虽然他并不算年老，但他接受长期高强度格斗训练已有多年，加之作为重量级大体型选手，关节与身体负担远重于常人，难免积压许多陈旧伤痛。因此，他摸索出了一套极其严格的“50% 恢复法则”： - **50% 恢复法则**：无论每天训练多长时间，必须拿出至少相当于训练时长一半的时间投入恢复。例如训练 4 个小时，就必须安排整整 2 个小时的恢复环节，包括拉伸、呼吸练习、桑拿、游泳、蒸汽浴或热水漩涡浴（Jacuzzi）。 - **饮食监控与自我实验**：重量级选手的体重下限只要超过 93 公斤（205 磅）即可，不像轻量级别选手那样需要经历严苛脱水和极限减重，因此过去在吃喝上较为随意。直到 27、28 岁左右，他才深刻意识到饮食对竞技表现的决定性影响。他的方法是在笔记本上记录每天的饮食，尝试剔除某样食物，观察并记录身体第二天的反应。现在他每天在固定时间摄入相似的食材，并依据训练强度精准调控碳水化合物的种类与补充时机。 - **睡眠与拒绝干扰的自律**：阿斯皮纳尔是一个“午睡大户”（big napper），早间训练结束后回家第一件事就是冲凉、进食，然后倒头大睡。他强调这需要极强的自律——当回到家里，面对几个兴奋的孩子吵着玩 Xbox、去室外玩耍、要零食，或是刚打翻了饮料需要清理时，能够硬下心肠对孩子们说“我现在要去睡了，一个半小时后起”，是一件极为艰难却不可妥协的事。正是这些微小的习惯累积，在长期竞技中带来了巨大的回报。 --- ### [01:29:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5358s) 中场赞助与《CEO日记》对话卡片 节目在此插入了中场赞助与周边产品介绍： - **Ketone-IQ 外源性酮体补剂**：斯蒂芬·巴特利特分享了自己日常使用外源性酮饮体验，称其能帮助自己快速进入高强度深度专注状态。巴特利特因深度认可该产品，不仅在日常工作和差旅中随身携带并在播客录制前饮用，甚至联系其首席执行官向该公司直接投资了数百万英镑。观众使用专属链接订阅可享受 30% 的折扣。 - **《CEO日记》对话卡片（Conversation Cards）**：巴特利特展示了由历期播客嘉宾亲手写下的提问所汇编的 51 张对话卡，分为“破冰（Warm-up）”、“敞开（Open up）”和“深度（Deep）”三个层级，卡片背面配有二维码可观看往期嘉宾的亲身作答，旨在帮助人们在会议室、私下相处或初次约会中开启真正深入的沟通。 --- ### [01:31:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5472s) 催眠疗法与对抗焦虑的心理调节 话题随后转向了阿斯皮纳尔此前随口提及的“催眠疗法”（Hypnotherapy）。阿斯皮纳尔透露，他目前正大幅增加催眠治疗的频次，就在前一天刚与催眠治疗师沟通，决定将疗程固定为每周两次。促使他深入催眠疗法的不仅是擂台上的竞技需求，更源于最近生活中的一场巨大变故——他的孩子不久前突发疾病住院，这彻底引爆了他深层的情绪焦虑。自那之后，他陷入了难以彻底放松和平息思绪的困境。 阿斯皮纳尔解释，催眠疗法在平复内心焦虑、改善睡眠质量以及维持内心的宁静（tranquil）方面对他产生了立竿见影的帮助。他强调，综合格斗是一项本身就充斥着高压与极度焦虑的运动，如果能够借助心理干预让整个人保持平静，将在场上形成巨大的竞技优势。斯蒂芬·巴特利特随即指出，许多对催眠缺乏认知的人往往会联想到老派电视节目里的滑稽把戏——在眼前晃动怀表催眠后让人学狗叫；阿斯皮纳尔赞同并准备进一步拆解这种现代心理疗法的真实内核。 ### [01:32:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5575s) 催眠疗法与潜意识的作用 很多外行人提起催眠疗法，总会联想到那些神神叨叨、令人瞬间失去意识并任人摆布的把戏，但汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）直言现实完全不是那样。在他接受的疗程中，整个过程非常自然且放松：他独自与催眠治疗师处在一个安静的房间里，无论是躺着还是坐着都可以，通常闭着双眼。治疗师会用温和平缓的声音引导他进入某个想象的情境，比如走在一条街道上或置身于某个特定场景中。 起初，汤姆总觉得必须逼自己全神贯注去听清治疗师讲的每一个字，强迫自己的思绪完全贴合对方构建的故事情节。但面对长达 45 分钟的引导，他感到极难维持长时间的专注，甚至坦白告诉治疗师自己很难跟上叙述。治疗师微笑着开导他：“别担心，你心里想什么都可以，完全不需要亦步亦趋地跟着我的话。你的潜意识无时无刻不在倾听。”不仅如此，有时在经历了高强度的体能对抗训练后，汤姆在疗程中累得直打瞌睡、拼命强撑着不让自己睡着，治疗师同样宽慰他：“哪怕你睡着了也没关系，潜意识依然在接收信息。”如今，他学会了彻底放空，任由思绪游走飘移。尽管汤姆自谦并非心理学家或催眠专家，但他切身体会到，这种方式在对抗焦虑、塑造积极思维以及维持心理健康方面带来了无可替代的帮助。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 催眠疗法的心理机制与效果 accDescr: 展示催眠疗法如何跳过显意识阻力，直接通过潜意识调节焦虑并建立积极心态的过程。 subgraph MindState["意识状态"] A["显意识放空 / 游离"] B["身体深层放松"] end subgraph Subconscious["潜意识接收"] C["治疗师意象引导"] D["潜意识持续倾听与内化"] end subgraph Outcome["心理正向改善"] E["缓解深层焦虑"] F["重塑积极心智与状态"] end A --> D B --> D C --> D D --> E D --> F ``` ### [01:34:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5679s) 伴随一生的焦虑症与强迫症（OCD） 当被问及一路以来的焦虑经历时，汤姆坦言焦虑其实一直伴随着他的成长，而且很多看似光鲜的人同样在暗中受其折磨。在他看来，强迫症（OCD）与焦虑往往如影随形、相辅相成。汤姆从小就受强迫倾向的困扰，童年时期的表现尤为剧烈。 在那段最为严重的时期，他如果发现房间陈设有一点不符合心理预期，整个人就会陷入极度的坐立不安：窗帘必须拉到分毫不差的角度，所有抽屉必须完全严丝合缝地关闭，房间里所有的物品都必须正朝前方摆放，电视机的摆放角度也必须精准固定。这种强迫行为背后的根源是潜藏的恐惧感——他总觉得“只要有一处摆放不对，可怕的厄运就会降临”。尽管随着年龄的增长，汤姆逐渐学会了自我调节并摆脱了最极端的强迫仪式，但这些念头并未彻底根除。一旦遭遇重大外界压力或生活危机，强迫症就会卷土重来。 - **强迫症诱因**：强迫行为的本质是为了压制内心深处无法预知的焦虑与对失控的恐惧。 - **童年典型症状**：极度对称与整齐强迫，包括窗帘褶皱、抽屉闭合度及物件朝向。 - **压力反弹特征**：当遭遇重大突发事件时，强迫症与焦虑行为会形成连带反应重新抬头。 ### [01:35:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5746s) 格斗牢笼之外的心智减负与“备战手机” 汤姆指出，综合格斗本质上就是一项“由高度焦虑驱动的极限运动”，置身于这种时刻面临伤痛与胜败悬崖的行业中，心理压力巨大是常态，能坦诚公开讨论心理健康反而是一种进步。针对外界诱发的焦虑，尤其是无休止的网络信息轰炸，汤姆摸索出了一套极其决绝的屏蔽机制。 以往的几场比赛前，汤姆就已经开始实行严格的“社交媒体断联”策略：只要确定了比赛日期，他会立刻将社交软件从手机中彻底清除。他直言，自己绝不可能在白天需要全神贯注研究对手技术细节的同时，晚上还捧着手机漫无目的地刷评论、受外界流言蜚语干扰。为了即将到来的下一场大战，他甚至打算更进一步，专门准备一部没有任何杂乱软件的“备战专用手机”，通信号码只留给极少数核心人员： - 拳击与体能教练等备战团队核心成员。 - 最亲近的家庭直系亲属：妻子、母亲和父亲。 - 除此之外的一切外界杂音与社交联络均被无情切断，确保比赛前夕心神澄澈。 ### [01:37:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5851s) 突遭家庭变故与生命优先级的重构 让汤姆的焦虑与强迫倾向近期剧烈反弹的导火索，是一场突如其来的家庭健康危机。他的一位孩子因不明急症被紧急送医抢救并留院治疗，那段日子对汤姆而言极为痛苦且充满创伤感。 所幸孩子如今已经转危为安。汤姆在谈及此事时感慨万千，虽然没有透露具体的病因细节，但他直言，当孩子经历生死未卜的关头时，世俗的一切荣誉、金钱和金腰带都会瞬间变得无足轻重。只要全家人能健康地活着，人生就已经是最大的幸运。在这场急救危机中，英国国家医疗服务体系（NHS）提供了无微不至的 24 小时全程抢救与照护，令汤姆和并非英国本土出生的妻子深受触动，由衷感叹在危急时刻能拥有这样免费且高效的医疗兜底是何等幸运。 ### [01:38:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=5901s) 双胞胎儿子的成长差异与孤独症确诊初期的心理否认 在谈及家庭时，史蒂文澄清被送医急救的是健康的那个孩子，而汤姆的一对双胞胎儿子中，另一位则被确诊患有自闭症（孤独症）。史蒂文提到，在日常收到的听众私信中，有大量孤独症患儿的父母表达了深深的孤独与内疚，社会上对于这一群体的真实经历缺乏足够深入的公开讨论。汤姆对此深有共鸣，并决定毫无保留地分享自己的经历。 汤姆的双胞胎儿子即将迎来 6 岁生日，他们出生于全球疫情封锁前夕。由于此前已有过育儿经验，汤姆和妻子很清楚孩子在各个成长阶段应达到的发育里程碑。但到了两个孩子两岁左右时，明显的反差开始浮现：双胞胎中的一个在语言表达、眼神互动交流以及对外界刺激的反应上，都远远落后于另一个孩子。 面对残酷的现实，身为父亲的汤姆最初陷入了强烈的心理否认期： - **归咎于疫情封控**：他不断在心中自我开解，坚信孩子只是因为两年来一直被困在家中，除了父母和哥哥们，几乎完全没有机会接触外界环境与其他同龄孩童，缺少社交刺激才导致发育滞后。 - **侥幸心理**：尽管看着两个双胞胎兄弟天差地别的成长速度，事实已经摆在眼前，汤姆依然固执地告诉自己“孩子只是晚熟，过段时间自然就会赶上”。 这种自欺欺人的状态持续了相当长一段时间，直到有一天，他和妻子偶然在电视上看到了英国知名艺人帕迪·麦吉尼斯（Paddy McGuinness）制作的一部关于孤独症的纪录片。麦吉尼斯的三个孩子全部被确诊患有孤独症，当汤姆坐在屏幕前听着对方讲述患儿早期的种种行为征兆时，内心的防御终于被彻底击碎，不得不开始正视儿子身上发生的真实转变。 ### [01:42:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6139s) 察觉异常与公立医疗系统的漫长等待 在观看一部关于自闭症的纪录片时，汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）首次意识到了儿子的异常。自闭症是一个跨度极大的广谱障碍，症状千差万别。片中的主讲人逐一列举着不同自闭症患儿的具体行为表现，汤姆一边看一边对照自己的生活，心里不由得咯噔一下：那个孩子身上的某些举动，自己的儿子身上也隐约可见；当主讲人谈到另一个被确诊的孩子时，汤姆越发震惊地发现，自己的孩子竟然符合其中许多特征。 当时汤姆对自闭症一无所知，惊慌失措之下他立刻去 Google 搜索，但正如所有病急乱投医的人一样，网上的海量信息只会让焦虑成倍放大。面对那些触目惊心的症状描述，他和妻子陷入了彻底的迷茫与无助中，意识到必须尽快寻求专业帮助。他们尝试预约英国国民医疗服务体系（NHS）的全科医生（GP），然而整个流程陷入了一片混乱——公立系统的门诊极难挂上号，好不容易看上了医生，全家得到的却只是一张漫长等待名单的入场券。 整整一年时间悄然流逝，家庭的阴霾越来越重。汤姆的双胞胎孩子中，有一个的发育速度明显落后于另一个。看着两个孩子之间越来越大的发展差距，夫妻俩心急如焚却又束手无策，对自闭症的一无所知更放大了对未来的恐惧。汤姆坦言，那种不知孩子未来将走向何方、不知该如何引导他成为一个独立人类的绝望，是他经历过“最深重的一种焦虑”。 > “你把这个孩子带到了世界上，却连该指引他走哪条路、如何在这个世界上生活都做不到，这真的是一件极其极其艰难的事情。” --- ### [01:44:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6263s) 偶遇领路人：自费确诊与教育转机 转机出现在汤姆参加英国广播公司（BBC）经典体育问答节目《运动问答》（A Question of Sport）录制期间。节目的主持人是著名喜剧演员兼主持人帕迪·麦吉尼斯（Paddy McGuinness），而帕迪此前恰好拍摄过多部关于自闭症的纪录片（他的三个孩子均确诊患有自闭症）。录制结束后，汤姆私下向帕迪请教：“帕迪，如果方便的话我想问问……我看了你那期关于自闭症的节目。我一直在尝试给我的孩子做诊断，但我们在公立系统的等待名单上已经硬生生排了一年了，我们到底该怎么办？” 帕迪毫不犹豫地将一位顶尖专家的私人联系方式推荐给了汤姆。汤姆立刻致电预约面诊，由于职业体育生涯带来的经济积累，他得以跳过漫长的公立排队机制，全额自费完成了专业评估与确诊流程。 确诊之后，局面迎来了翻天覆地的转变。凭借明确的诊断报告，汤姆的儿子顺利进入了一所普通主流小学就读，并配备了专属的一对一助教（one-to-one teacher）。孩子在学校得到了专业定制的辅助与关照，每天都能开开心心地去上学，并呈现出肉眼可见的稳步进步。尽管未来的路还充满变数，全家人依然在过着走一步看一步的日子，但专业的支持至少让孩子不再被主流教育体系抛弃。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 自闭症确诊与干预支持路径 accDescr: 对比有无诊断结果对患儿家庭和资源获取的不同影响 subgraph S1["确诊前困境"] A["察觉双胞胎发育出现差距"] --> B["GP门诊排队漫长"] B --> C["陷入无方向的焦灼与等待"] end subgraph S2["自费确诊转折"] D["获得专家资源并自费确诊"] end subgraph S3["确诊后支持系统"] E["进入普通主流小学"] F["配备一对一助教"] G["定制感官与日常干预"] end C --> D D --> E D --> F D --> G ``` --- ### [01:45:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6320s) 英国自闭症诊疗危机与家庭困境 在庆幸自己孩子获得帮助的同时，汤姆感到深深的沉重与不安。他深知自己完全是因为职业生涯积累了优渥的经济条件，才能掏出这笔不菲的费用走自费绿色通道；但在英国，绝大多数普通家庭根本无力承受高昂的私人医疗费用。自从汤姆公开谈论过儿子的自闭症后，他在社交媒体上收到了数百条求助私信，走在大街上也屡屡被遇到同样困境的家长拦下倾诉。 普通家庭的遭遇极其严峻：家长们带着出现异样的孩子去挂 GP、申请评估，换来的却是长达三至七年的漫长等待期。在这漫长的空白期里，没有官方诊断的孩子只能被硬塞进普通学校，由于缺乏专门的特教资源和一对一辅导，这些孩子不仅无法融入，反而在环境的压力下不断退化；与此同时，毫无指导方向的家长们也心力交瘁，整个家庭的生活质量伴随着孩子的恶化而急转直下。 汤姆困惑于导致这种危机的根源：一方面英国引以为傲的 NHS 面临严重资源挤压，政府和医疗体系的应对严重滞后；另一方面，社会上对于自闭症成因的传言层出不穷，从疫苗、饮食习惯到电视节目、塑料玩具众说纷纭。汤姆直言自己不是医学专家，无法评判这些理论的真伪，但他亲眼看到的是一个严峻的事实——每年被确诊或等待确诊的人群正以惊人的速度激增，而配套的学校辅助资源却几乎是一片荒漠。 - **英国自闭症现状**：英国目前约有 70 万名自闭症儿童与成人正承受这一病症的影响。 - **美国对比数据**：全美约有 2.5% 的人口确诊自闭症，男孩的发病率是女孩的 4 倍左右。 - **爆发式增长趋势**：在过去大约 20 年间，自闭症的确诊数量暴增了 787%——这固然包含公众意识提高带来的主动就医，但也有学者认为环境等其他潜在因素导致了实际发病率的激增。 --- ### [01:48:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6481s) 确诊的意义：不再“原地踩水”与寻求秩序 斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）提出疑问：对于那些没有切身体会的人来说，一纸“确诊报告”究竟为什么如此至关重要？难道只是为了获取额外的资源配额吗？ 汤姆坦承，在最初接触自闭症时，他也曾抱有极为朴素的念头：“确诊不确诊有什么所谓？不管怎样他都是我的骨肉，我都一样爱他、一样会尽我所能去陪伴和指引他。”然而，随着深入接触，他意识到这种想法在现实面前是行不通的。汤姆以职业格斗选手的日常做类比：作为顶级运动员，他的每一天都有严密的系统流程——在特定时间进入拳馆训练、高强度受训后进行科学恢复、精准控制饮食配比。这种清晰、可执行的秩序是他取得成功的基石。 对于特殊儿童的养育而言，缺乏诊断就等同于完全剥夺了这套秩序。汤姆用了一个极其生动的比喻来形容未确诊时的混乱状态：“那种感觉就像是在水里踩水，你被困在原地，双手拼命扑腾挣扎，却完全不知道接下来该迈出哪一步来推动家庭和孩子的人生前进。” 确诊绝不是在统计数据上增加一个冰冷的数字，也不是为了给孩子贴上一个标签，它的核心意义在于开启整套支持系统的密钥： - **公共与医疗资金支持**：为低收入家庭提供必要的特殊教育与日常照护资金。 - **环境与教具改造**：主流学校内的感官室（sensory rooms）、感官玩具以及行为干预工具。 - **多方联动网络**：为患儿在校内争取一对一特教名额，同时为心力交瘁的父母及家庭成员提供心理与方法指导。 > “如果你没有诊断报告，从我个人的切身体会来说，你就像是在水里徒劳地踩水挣扎。我必须需要一个清晰的流程，告诉我必须采取哪几个具体步骤，才能真正推动我的孩子往前走。” --- ### [01:50:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6633s) 照亮黑暗的灯：确诊带来的解脱与发声的初衷 斯蒂芬深有感触地分享了身边的真实故事：他多年挚友、也是在他公司工作多年的核心伙伴，成年后才被确诊为自闭症。确诊那一刻，这位朋友感受到的不是沉重，而是一种前所未有的巨大释怀——这种感觉就如同“有人突然在漆黑的屋子里打开了灯”。房间被照亮后，他终于真正理解了自己的思维与行为模式，不仅没有任何倒退，反而在生活与工作中做出了更好、更清晰的决策。斯蒂芬坦言，普通人往往很难想象确诊背后的现实扶助价值，在听汤姆讲述之前，他也完全不知道学校会为主流班级里持有确诊报告的孩子专门配给一对一助教。 汤姆承认，作为一个职业格斗手，公开站出来探讨自闭症诊断、公立医疗缺陷以及政府政策是一个相当冒险且棘手的举动。网络上肯定会有人冷嘲热讽，质疑“这个只知道打拳的粗汉凭什么在这里对自闭症诊断和政府事务指手画脚”。但汤姆坚定地表示，这并不是纸上谈兵的空谈，而是他正在经历并将继续面对的真实生活；在他身边的朋友圈子与当地社区里，还有无数在泥潭中苦苦挣扎的普通家庭，这就是他选择不再沉默的原因。 ### [01:51:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6718s) 冠军腰带的秘密：价值不菲的真品与红宝石卫冕印记 阿斯皮纳尔首先由衷表达了对自闭症群体的关切。他坦言，社会上有太多家庭身处与自己相同的困境，急需外界的援手与资源；他深知自己能够获得帮助并看到儿子的好转是极其幸运且值得感恩的，因此他希望利用自己的影响力为那些仍在暗中挣扎的人发声。史蒂文对此表示诚挚感谢，随后将话题引向了摆在录播桌上的那顶沉甸甸的 UFC 重量级冠军腰带。 桌上的这条腰带实际上是一比一的复制品。史蒂文打趣道，之所以没把真家伙带到现场，是因为网上传闻 UFC 的真品冠军金腰带价值高达约 30 万英镑。阿斯皮纳尔证实了腰带的珍贵性：选手在领取真正腰带时必须签署协议，一旦遗失，必须由选手自掏腰包照价全额赔偿。因此，他的正品腰带被稳妥存放在一个极度安全的地方。两人仔细端详了腰带上的细节，阿斯皮纳尔解释了新版 UFC 遗产腰带（Legacy Belt）侧牌的玄机：在真品腰带上，底座镶嵌的是钻石，每当冠军成功卫冕一次，官方就会镶上一颗红宝石。阿斯皮纳尔此前成功卫冕过一次，因此侧牌上嵌有一颗红宝石，随着卫冕次数增加，侧牌上留出的八个槽位会被逐一填满。而眼前这条复制品侧牌上刻着“UFC 304 爱德华兹 vs 穆罕默德 2”的字样，他的真品腰带则刻有他专属的名字与比赛记录。 - 真实金腰带价值昂贵，选手若遗失需个人全额自费赔付（网传造价约 30 万英镑）。 - UFC 遗产腰带侧牌机制：每成功卫冕一次，侧牌便会镶嵌一枚红宝石，最多可容纳八次卫冕记录。 --- ### [01:53:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6824s) 夺冠后的空虚：金钱与头衔治愈不了内心的问题 回忆起当初夺得 UFC 重量级临时冠军头衔的那一刻，阿斯皮纳尔表示自己赛后极度兴奋，整整三天三夜完全没有合眼。那场比赛是在极其仓促的情况下接下的，他当时刚参加完朋友的单身派对（Stag do），身体根本不在竞技状态。然而，在登顶世界之巅的狂喜过后，随之而来的是一种微妙的“反高潮”（Anticlimax）。 阿斯皮纳尔坦率地剖析了所谓“功成名就”背后的心理现实：名气、财富和冠军头衔根本无法从本质上改变一个人大脑内部的运作逻辑。在年轻时，很多人总抱有一种幻想，以为有钱人就没有任何烦恼，但事实完全相反。过去，他的核心难题是交不起房租、加不起汽车油钱；如今这些生计问题确实不复存在了，但取而代之的是金钱根本无力解决的全新困境与精神挣扎。外在光环的叠加，并不能自动抹除内心的焦虑与困惑。 --- ### [01:55:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=6930s) 激流勇退的隐忧：如何规划退役生活与商业版图 史蒂文提及拳王泰森·富里等人在面临退役时的挣扎，询问阿斯皮纳尔是否计划为了避免脑损伤和认知障碍而相对提前退役，以及他是否担忧退役后的空虚感。阿斯皮纳尔承认自己确实心存担忧，因为综合格斗几乎占据了他当下的整个人生。格斗不仅仅是擂台和馆内的实战训练，甚至呼吸练习、拉伸恢复、严格饮食和睡眠管理，全都是训练体系密不可分的一部分。 意识到自己已经步入职业生涯的下半程，阿斯皮纳尔开始未雨绸缪。重量级选手的职业寿命相对偏长，极少数幸运儿能打到像斯蒂佩·米奥奇（Stipe Miocic）那样的 40 岁左右，但他一直在积极布局财务与未来的长期发展： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 阿斯皮纳尔的多元化生涯与后格斗规划 accDescr: 展示汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔在现役训练之外，向商业投资、媒体分析与赛事解说的多元延伸。 subgraph Core["核心竞技生涯"] Fight["高强度现役备战<br/>训练、呼吸法、饮食管理"] end subgraph Finance["财务与商业布局"] Equity["赞助合作绑定股权<br/>追求长期被动收益与资本增值"] Invest["专业团队协同理财<br/>保障职业生涯后期的财务安全"] end subgraph Media["媒体与格斗普及"] TNT["TNT Sports 个人战术拆解节目"] Pundit["赛事解说 / 播客探讨 / 格斗教育"] end Core --> Finance Core --> Media ``` - **财务长青**：与团队紧密合作推进多元投资，在部分商业赞助合作中直接获取企业股份，而非单纯拿一次性代言费。 - **媒体转型**：坚信自己未来无论以何种形式退役，都不会离开综合格斗领域。目前他已在英国 TNT Sports 拥有了自己的格斗战术拆解节目（Fight Breakdown），逐步在媒体解说与大众科普领域迈出坚实步伐。 --- ### [01:58:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7102s) 父亲的预言、蓝领小镇与“绝不妥协的野心” 当被问及父亲看到他夺得这条重量级金腰带时是否感到震撼，阿斯皮纳尔的回答出人意料——父亲并没有被惊艳到。他解释道，这听起来可能有些狂妄，但事实是父子俩对走到今天这一步早有心理准备。父亲在阿斯皮纳尔还未相信自己之前，就已坚信他能成为世界冠军。在漫长的成长岁月中，父亲总是在细节处点拨他：“只要你保持专注、坚持自律生活、全身心投入训练，你终将成为世界重量级冠军。” 阿斯皮纳尔出生于一个典型而谦逊的工人阶层（Blue-collar）小镇。他深刻指出，在这种传统蓝领社区的文化氛围中，年轻人的雄心壮志常常在萌芽阶段就被周围人扼杀。大人们往往出于好心劝诫后辈：“别妄想成为好莱坞巨星了，面对现实吧，找个本分工作。”阿斯皮纳尔坚决反对这种平庸思维： > “如果你认为自己能成为好莱坞演员，那就全情投入去拼！永远把最高的目标当成第一选择。就算最终没能落在顶峰，你也可以重新调整球门，但起步时必须瞄准最高处。” 对谈最后，当史蒂文单刀直入地问他“你觉得自己是一个特殊的人吗？”时，阿斯皮纳尔毫不犹豫地给出了肯定的回答：“是的。”他坦言，自己在运动机能与身体素质上确实拥有与生俱来的过人天赋，但这种特殊绝非凭空得来，更是数十年如一日倾注汗水、精心雕琢的必然结果。 ### [02:01:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7283s) 承受极端压力的心理天赋与拥抱恐惧 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）坦言，除了多年累积的刻苦训练，他在心理素质上确实拥有一种特殊天赋。虽然这离不开父亲和身边支持团队多年的打磨，但他坚信自己拥有一种“上天或宇宙赋予的天赋”，能够在最极端的重压之下展现出超高水准的表现。史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）问他，既然比赛时同样会感到恐惧，那是如何做到这一点的。汤姆给出的答案极为纯粹：“因为我接纳恐惧，甚至‘沐浴’在恐惧之中。”他笑着表示，这是最近别人告诉他的一句话，自己觉得非常贴切。 汤姆解释称，以前比赛前自己往往要同时打两场仗：一场是对抗擂台上的对手，另一场则是对抗自己内心的恐惧，拼命想把害怕的感觉排斥在外。直到后来他彻底转变了观念，明白恐惧实际上是身体赐予的终极助力。为了说明这一点，他分享了身边好友的真实故事： - 那位朋友体型瘦小单薄，有一次在家组装重型衣柜时，沉重的衣柜突然翻倒，重重压在了还不会走路的婴儿身上。 - 独自一人的朋友在极度恐惧下瞬间爆发出惊人力量，硬生生把沉重的衣柜从孩子身上掀开，幸运的是孩子安然无恙。 - 然而仅过了五分钟，当孩子脱离危险后，他试图把衣柜挪到房间另一侧时，却发现自己用尽全力连挪动分毫都做不到，只能干等着别人上门帮忙。 汤姆指出，唯有“害怕孩子被压碎”的极端恐惧，才能彻底激活身体潜能；就如同一个人为了保命奔跑时，速度必定远超平时在大街上慢跑。恐惧所带来的能量无可替代，而他学会了全盘接纳并将其转化为格斗场上的动力。 --- ### [02:04:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7441s) 乔治·圣皮埃尔的心理秘诀：“一切平静皆是有意为之” 史蒂文提起自己无论在屏幕前还是亲临现场看汤姆比赛，汤姆给人的最深印象就是步入八角笼时那异乎寻常的平静从容，“看起来就像我平时走进办公室一样，完全看不出对面正站着一个身高六英尺五英寸、想在擂台上取你性命的对手”。汤姆直言，这种看似波澜不惊的状态其实“全是有意为之的心理设计（by design）”。 这一秘诀源于汤姆在综合格斗界的偶像——传奇冠军乔治·圣皮埃尔（Georges St-Pierre，GSP）。汤姆视 GSP 为这项运动的标杆，不仅因为其顶尖实力，更因其崇高的人格。在与 GSP 的多次深入交流中，两人都毫无保留地坦白过彼此在赛前的极度恐惧。GSP 向汤姆传授了一套让身体带动大脑的方法： ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 身体带动心理的反馈循环 accDescr: 展现从生理姿态模拟自信到大脑真正放松的心理调节过程 subgraph 生理驱动["生理行为设计"] A["强迫微笑与展肩挺胸"] --> B["模拟放松从容的外在姿态"] end subgraph 心理同步["心理正向反馈"] B --> C["神经系统逐渐平复"] C --> D["大脑跟随身体进入冷静专注"] end ``` 汤姆生动地还原了比赛日的真实心境： - 在比赛当天，他要面对数百万观众的注视，随时可能被对手打到神智不清、当场昏厥，内心深处最后想做的事情就是微笑； - 但他偏偏反其道而行之，强迫自己全天昂首挺胸、收紧肩背、面带微笑，对遇到的每个人都友善问好，表现得如同世界上没有任何烦心事； - 久而久之，大脑便奇迹般地跟随了身体的指引，逐渐真正放松下来。 - 当他走入八角笼、对手恶狠狠地盯着他像要杀人时，他望向对手的神情却平淡得“就像在排队买三明治一样”；即使入场走道两旁的观众在大吼大叫、比中指、泼啤酒、甚至叫嚣他会死在台上，他依然走得如同“刚睡醒出门遛狗”，以此彻底掌控自己的神经系统。 --- ### [02:07:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7640s) 终极问题交接：MrBeast 的提问与对努力的反思 节目进入传统收尾环节——上一位嘉宾为未知的下一位嘉宾留下一个问题。史蒂文笑着揭晓，上一位录制节目的嘉宾正是刚刚在美国接受采访的顶流博主 MrBeast，而他留下的问题直截了当又颇具挑战意味：“你为什么不更努力一点？”（Why don't you work harder?） 听到这个问题，汤姆先是会心一笑，随后认真作答。他表示自己自认为已经倾尽所能，但如果每个人真正直视镜子里的自己，都不得不承认自己其实还能做得更好。汤姆幽默地反思道，如果说自己身上真有什么阻碍他更进一步的弱点，那大概就是他“太喜欢睡觉了”。然而只要处于清醒状态，他生活中的一举一动全部高度聚焦于如何成为最优秀的格斗家。史蒂文随即附和打趣，高质量的充足睡眠本就是高强度训练和刻苦努力不可或缺的基础。 --- ### [02:08:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7703s) 真实与谦逊的力量：走向无可争议的冠军之路 在节目的最后，史蒂文向汤姆表达了由衷的敬意与感谢。他赞赏汤姆作为一名来自蓝领工人阶层家庭的普通人，在毫无短期或中期回报保障的漫长岁月里，仅凭着对格斗的热爱和对自我的坚定信念走到了今天。史蒂文特别提到，汤姆既能极其接地气、毫无虚伪谦虚（fake humble）的做作，又能堂堂正正、毫无愧色地承认自己确实“拥有特殊之处”，这份建立在无可辩驳硬实力之上的从容激励了无数普通人。 此外，史蒂文特别致谢汤姆为自闭症群体所做的发声。汤姆公开谈论患有自闭症的孩子，并积极推动改善英国国民保健署（NHS）冗长诊断等待期的努力，极大地鼓舞了无数同样面临困境的家庭。面对即将创造历史、成为英国首位重量级无可争议双料冠军的征程，汤姆最后再次诚恳澄清：他口中的“特殊”绝非自命不凡或高人一等，他出身于最平凡朴素的家庭，未曾觉得自己生来就凌驾于他人之上。 ### [02:10:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7826s) 每个人都能成就非凡：永不言弃的信念与收尾 Tom Aspinall 在访谈尾声分享了自己对于“卓越与与众不同”的深刻感悟。他由衷地表示，自己坚信世界上任何一个人都有机会变得出类拔萃，而现实中有太多人缺乏对自己潜能的信任，他由衷希望更多人能够真正相信这一点。在 Tom 看来，所谓的特殊与卓越绝非少数所谓“天选之人”的专利，只要一个人愿意付出足够艰苦的努力，并且在逆境与考验面前“永远不放弃自己”（don't quit on themselves），就同样能够实现蜕变、成就属于自己的非凡人生。 这段质朴而有力的结语为整场深谈画上了句号。主持人 Steven Bartlett 对此深感共鸣，以一句诚挚的“Amen”作为回应，并向 Tom 表达了由衷的感谢；Tom 亦礼貌致谢，对话在温馨而充满鼓舞的氛围与片尾音乐中正式落幕。 - **对“卓越”的重新定义**：Tom 坚信非凡成就并非遥不可及的天赋垄断，只要付出足够的汗水并保持信念，任何人都能变得独一无二。 - **核心人生法则**：在追求目标的漫长历程中，最关键的底线在于永不放弃自我。 ## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=0s) 我要是不怕，那我就是个傻子。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=0s) 所谓的一夜成名，背后往往需要历经漫长岁月的熬炼。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=0s) 持久力与持之以恒的耐力被严重低估了。在选择泛滥的时代，对单一目标百分之百的偏执专注，才能换来最终的胜利。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [03:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=206s) 我自始至终追逐的只有‘无可争议重量级冠军’这个头衔本身，我从来不是在追逐某一个人。琼斯只是附带的奖赏，金腰带才是我的终极目标。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [08:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=536s) 我更喜欢被猎捕，而不是当猎人……大家都冲着我来，这感觉棒极了。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [17:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1020s) 如果从我九岁及以后的年纪来问，我当时就会斩钉截铁地告诉你：我将来要成为 UFC 重量级世界冠军。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [21:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1280s) 如果你没有付出应有的努力，你立刻就会被当众扒光伪装（exposed）。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [27:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=1631s) 我现在贵为世界排名第一的重量级选手，我都害怕跟人动手打架。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [52:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=3140s) 我心里一直怀揣着那个狂热的梦想，梦想着自己成为国际巨星、银行账户里有几百万英镑、拿着金腰带周游世界。但现实是，我身在大曼彻斯特的阿瑟顿（Atherton），窗外下着冷雨，我穷到连给车加油的钱都没有，而楼上三个孩子还在号啕大哭。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [01:10:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=4222s) 我到底在干什么？我居然在听那些平庸普通人的意见，任由他们往我的大脑里灌输普通人的思维。但我绝不是一个普通人，我是世界顶尖的精英运动员！我从不甘于平庸，更不能让普通人来定义我的极限。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [01:58:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7102s) 如果你认为自己能成为好莱坞演员，那就全情投入去拼！永远把最高的目标当成第一选择。就算最终没能落在顶峰，你也可以重新调整球门，但起步时必须瞄准最高处。 — 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 > [02:07:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY&t=7640s) 你为什么不更努力一点？ — MrBeast ## Mentioned 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔 (Tom Aspinall), 史蒂芬·巴特利特 (Steven Bartlett), 乔恩·琼斯 (Jon Jones), 西里尔·盖恩 (Ciryl Gane), 贾尔顿·阿尔梅达 (Jailton Almeida), 亚历山大·沃尔科夫 (Alexander Volkov), 谢尔盖·帕夫洛维奇 (Sergei Pavlovich), 柯蒂斯·布莱兹 (Curtis Blaydes), 斯蒂佩·米欧奇 (Stipe Miocic), 乔治·圣皮埃尔 (Georges St-Pierre), 帕迪·麦吉尼斯 (Paddy McGuinness), MrBeast, 白大拿 (Dana White), 贾斯蒂娜 (Justina), UFC, The Diary Of A CEO, NHS, Vanta, Ketone-IQ, Skool, TNT Sports, Champion, 伦敦 O2 体育馆 ## Video description BREAKING: Tom Aspinall becomes the undisputed UFC Heavyweight Champion. He reveals the truth about Jon Jones’ retirement, and breaks down the champion mindset, fear, and mental toughness required for UFC title fights.  Tom explains:  ◽️The mental trick he uses to control fear before stepping into the cage. ◽️ Why so many young men feel lost, and how MMA gave him purpose. ◽️ The harsh reality of life as a UFC fighter behind the scenes. ◽️How embracing pain, pressure, and adversity made him a champion. ⏱ Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:52 Did You See This Coming? 03:31 What Was Your Reaction When You Found Out Jon Jones Was Retiring? 04:23 Did You Want to Fight Jon? 05:21 Was Jon's Decision a Strategic Dodge? 06:23 Do You Take It as a Compliment? 07:29 Would You Fight Jon If He Came Back? 08:51 What's Changed Overnight? 10:43 Who's the Contender Now? 11:48 When Will You Fight Next? 14:02 What Was Your Family's Reaction? 15:29 If Jon Is Watching, What Would You Say? 17:48 The Dream to Become a Heavyweight Champion 18:32 Where Does Tom Aspinall Come From? 19:45 Where Did Your Inspiration Come From? 22:02 What Kept You Going? 24:46 Why Did Your Mum Never Come to an MMA Fight? 26:40 What Advice Would You Give to Young People? 29:49 I'm Scared to Fight Anybody 32:03 I've Always Been Fearful to Fight 33:05 Overcoming the Fear 35:37 Working on Your Mental Strength 37:57 Tom's Process of Writing Things Down 41:30 Very Few Make Money Fighting 44:22 Tom Aspinall's Career Progression and Fighting Style 48:41 When Do You Start Making Good Money? 50:08 Sergei Pavlovich Fight 51:17 It Takes Years to Become an Overnight Success 52:42 Having Kids at 23 and Not Being Able to Support Them 57:19 Your Rock Bottom Moment 58:45 Tom's Family 01:01:57 Ads 1:03:05 My Knee Problems Helped My Career Growth Massively 1:06:30 Surrounded by Toxic People 1:09:54 How Did You Feel After the Injury? 1:12:07 Did It Knock Your Confidence? 1:13:40 Jon Jones 1:17:48 There's No Contract Signed 1:24:06 Tom's Fighting Secrets 1:26:24 The Health Routine to Get Into Elite Shape 01:30:07 Ads 1:32:10 Why Do You Do Hypnotherapy? 1:35:34 Your Journey With Anxiety 1:38:28 Your Son's Health 1:39:16 Having an Autistic Child 1:48:25 The Importance of an Autism Diagnosis 1:53:46 The UFC Heavyweight Champion Belt 1:54:41 How Did You Feel When You Won the Heavyweight Championship? 1:56:26 Retiring Early to Avoid Cognitive Issues 2:01:52 Why Are You Special? 2:04:57 How I Prepare Mentally on Fight Day Get your hands on the Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards here: ⁠https://bit.ly/conversationcards-mp⁠   Follow Tom:  Instagram - ⁠https://bit.ly/4kbCZGh⁠  YouTube - ⁠https://bit.ly/4lhLwbO⁠  Get email updates: ⁠https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt⁠  Follow Steven: ⁠https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb⁠  Sponsors: Vanta - https://vanta.com/steven KetoneIQ - Visit https://ketone.com/STEVEN for 30% off your subscription order [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc5pZVsFPY)

[0:00] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 我要是不怕，那我就是个傻子。 [0:00] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 所谓的一夜成名，背后往往需要历经漫长岁月的熬炼。 [0:00] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 持久力与持之以恒的耐力被严重低估了。在选择泛滥的时代，对单一目标百分之百的偏执专注，才能换来最终的胜利。 [3:26] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 我自始至终追逐的只有‘无可争议重量级冠军’这个头衔本身，我从来不是在追逐某一个人。琼斯只是附带的奖赏，金腰带才是我的终极目标。 [8:56] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 我更喜欢被猎捕，而不是当猎人……大家都冲着我来，这感觉棒极了。 [17:00] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 如果从我九岁及以后的年纪来问，我当时就会斩钉截铁地告诉你：我将来要成为 UFC 重量级世界冠军。 [21:20] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 如果你没有付出应有的努力，你立刻就会被当众扒光伪装（exposed）。 [27:11] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 我现在贵为世界排名第一的重量级选手，我都害怕跟人动手打架。 [52:20] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 我心里一直怀揣着那个狂热的梦想，梦想着自己成为国际巨星、银行账户里有几百万英镑、拿着金腰带周游世界。但现实是，我身在大曼彻斯特的阿瑟顿（Atherton），窗外下着冷雨，我穷到连给车加油的钱都没有，而楼上三个孩子还在号啕大哭。 [70:22] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 我到底在干什么？我居然在听那些平庸普通人的意见，任由他们往我的大脑里灌输普通人的思维。但我绝不是一个普通人，我是世界顶尖的精英运动员！我从不甘于平庸，更不能让普通人来定义我的极限。 [118:22] 汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔: 如果你认为自己能成为好莱坞演员，那就全情投入去拼！永远把最高的目标当成第一选择。就算最终没能落在顶峰，你也可以重新调整球门，但起步时必须瞄准最高处。 [127:20] MrBeast: 你为什么不更努力一点？

[48:41] Tom Aspinall: It's just as much about do people want to watch you fight. That's... it's not just about winning fights. Winning fights is extremely important, but you got to make people want to see you. [52:42] Tom Aspinall: I'm living on that dream... but I'm in Atherton, Greater Manchester. It's raining outside. I can't afford to put fuel in my car and I've got three kids upstairs crying... I felt a little bit demasculated... I'm here with this wife and kids and I ain't providing nothing. [65:01] Tom Aspinall: The Tom Aspinall before and after that moment completely different people. I feel like I completely rebuilt myself, not only physically... but mentally the growth has been enormous. [113:46] Tom Aspinall: money, fame, and titles doesn't change much in terms of what goes on inside your brain [113:46] Tom Aspinall: Money, fame, and titles doesn't change much in terms of what goes on inside your brain... I still have the same struggles as I did before. [118:23] Tom Aspinall: Shoot as high as you can. Your first option should be the highest of the high. And if you land any lower, then you readjust... But the first thing is shoot as high as you can. [123:40] MrBeast: Why don't you work harder?

[0:00] I'm the number one heavyweight in the [0:01] world right now and I'm scared to fight [0:02] everybody. What about John Jones? I'd be [0:04] an idiot otherwise. But now that I [0:06] understand fear and what it does for me, [0:07] it just fuels me so much in a way that [0:09] nothing else can. So, I'll be prepared [0:11] to do whatever I need to do. But I just [0:13] don't like what he's doing because I [0:16] can't function knowing that I trained [0:18] for a fight and didn't actually fight [0:20] somebody. [0:22] Jon Jones is officially retired. Tom [0:24] Aspenol is the heavyweight champion of [0:26] the UFC. Did you see this coming? And do [0:29] you have any idea when you'll be back in [0:31] the octagon? I do. Yeah. Yeah. Tom, [0:33] you're the only ever British heavyweight [0:35] champion of the UFC. So, what advice can [0:37] you give young men that are struggling [0:39] to find that sense of purpose? It takes [0:40] years to become an overnight success. [0:42] I've been going since I was 8 years old [0:44] and I've been up against so many tests [0:46] from career ending injuries to financial [0:48] struggles to mental struggles and at one [0:50] point we had three kids at the age of 25 [0:52] and I had no money. I mean, my first pro [0:54] fight I got 200 quid. I felt the [0:56] pressure trying to be a young guy but [0:58] having all this responsibility on me. [1:00] Having to borrow money from friends to [1:02] buy nappies for my kids so I can keep [1:04] living on this dream. But outlasting [1:06] people and consistency is massively [1:09] underrated. And in today's day and age, [1:11] people just have a lot of options. But [1:12] that obsessiveness of being 100% focused [1:16] on something, you win. Tom, there's this [1:18] black box in front of me which contains [1:20] something which represents a pivotal [1:22] moment in your career. What is the story [1:23] behind this? [1:26] It was the most devastating thing that [1:28] happened in my whole career. [1:32] So, ahead of showing you that interview [1:33] which we recorded a while ago, I wanted [1:35] to call Tom and get his first reaction [1:38] to the news that he's now the UFC's [1:40] undisputed heavyweight champion of the [1:41] world. So, what I'm about to show you is [1:43] a conversation I had with Tom hours [1:45] after the news was announced that he's [1:46] now the undisputed heavyweight champion [1:48] of the world. And then I'm going to play [1:50] the long form interview that me and Tom [1:51] had several weeks ago right here in the [1:53] studio. Enjoy. Tom, did you um did you [1:57] see this coming? [2:01] Uh yes, but I just didn't expect it. Um [2:06] when it happened, I expected it. So, [2:08] next week I'm going to Vegas. I'm going [2:10] for the Well, they say it's the biggest [2:13] fight card of the year, a fight card [2:14] called International Fight Week. [2:17] And I knew that I had some news coming [2:19] on International Fight Week. We got wind [2:22] that Jon Jones is gonna retire and [2:24] they're going to announce it on [2:25] International Fight Week, but for some [2:26] reason they announced it um last night. [2:29] I don't know what that reason is. It [2:30] took me by surprise at least. Um but [2:33] they announced it last night. What was [2:34] your initial honest gut reaction when [2:36] you found out he was retiring? Where [2:38] were you? What was your first feeling [2:40] when you heard that news? [2:44] Well, I only knew 100% actually last [2:46] night. It was always like rumors of him [2:49] retiring. He's putting stuff out on the [2:50] media saying that he's retiring because [2:53] MMA especially at elite level is quite [2:55] there's not many people like you hear [2:57] rumors a lot. So I heard rumors from [2:59] people close to him that he's going to [3:01] retire and that he's not living like an [3:03] athlete um who's fighting at the top [3:06] level anymore and that he's not [3:07] interested and he's not in the gym and [3:09] etc. But I knew that there was going to [3:11] be a decision made by the UFC coming [3:12] soon whether he's going to continue and [3:15] um we got it last night for sure. We we [3:17] finally got it confirmed last night. So, [3:19] I am uh very happy to get this part of [3:22] my career behind me in the rearview [3:24] mirror now. [3:26] But, but how did you feel? Because I [3:28] think from the conversation we had, [3:30] which we're going to play in a second, [3:32] it was clear to me that you wanted to [3:34] have Jon Jones on your record. You [3:36] wanted to fight him. What I really [3:38] wanted is is the undisputed title. [3:40] That's really what I was chasing the [3:41] whole time. I was never really chasing [3:42] one guy. Jon Jones was always just a [3:44] bonus because of the sto because of the [3:47] resume that he's got and because of the [3:48] name that he has and the the status that [3:50] he holds within the within the sport. [3:52] Like he's so well respected. I think [3:53] that would have been a great scalp for [3:56] me to have on my resume. But uh [3:59] ultimately I was chasing the belt. I was [4:00] chasing being the number one heavyweight [4:02] fighter in the world, which uh I am and [4:04] I can say that I am now, especially with [4:05] John not around and he's retired and [4:07] that's behind us. But um ultimately the [4:10] thing that I wanted really was was the [4:12] belt. the fact that John's left the [4:13] sport. Obviously, it would have been [4:15] better for me career-wise to have that [4:17] name. Financially, it would have been [4:18] great as well, but um the thing that I [4:20] was ultimately chasing was uh the [4:23] heavyweight title. And how do you think [4:25] about John's decision? Do you do you [4:27] view it as a strategic dodge or do you [4:30] view it as a genuine sort of closing of [4:32] that chapter in his uh of his legacy? [4:38] I think that he's entitled to do [4:39] whatever he wants to be honest. I'm not [4:42] um he's done way more in the sport than [4:44] I have. So, he should do whatever he [4:46] feels is right. I speaking as as just a [4:49] fighter here. If it was if it was so [4:52] public [4:54] for me personally, I don't know if my [4:56] ego could take it having not done it. Um [4:59] but that's that's honestly that's his [5:01] prerogative. I don't hold any ill will [5:03] against him for it. And I'm I'm happy to [5:06] move on with my career now that it's [5:08] over. Because you got to remember, I've [5:10] not fought for nearly a year now because [5:13] of this. And I've been healthy the whole [5:16] time. I've been in the gym the whole [5:17] time. I've been doing exactly what I'm [5:18] supposed to do as a high level operating [5:21] athlete at the elite level. So I'm glad [5:24] that that is behind us. Well, do you in [5:27] part, I guess, take this as a bit of a [5:28] compliment that there was such huge [5:30] public pressure for him to fight you and [5:32] actually the route that he chose was to [5:34] retire instead of fighting you? I mean, [5:35] that's quite a compliment for someone of [5:37] Jon Jones stature. [5:41] Uh, I try not to let my ego take control [5:44] of me. Um, I could see why people would [5:47] think that, but to me it's just like [5:49] maybe when I've retired I'll cons when [5:51] I've retired myself, which is not going [5:52] to happen in the next couple of years at [5:54] least. Um, I'll think about that kind of [5:56] stuff. But for right now, it's just like [5:58] we got to focus on another fight. We've [6:00] got to get me active. We got to get me [6:01] back out there and doing what doing what [6:03] I'm supposed to be doing. Cuz right now, [6:04] I've been thinking about that whole [6:06] situation and being held up and [6:07] frustrated for almost a year. And it's [6:09] not it's what I love doing. I've been [6:11] I've been held back for the whole time [6:12] and it's not been very fun to be honest [6:14] with you. So my the the ego side of my [6:17] brain is like, "Yep, I've kind of beat [6:19] him without fighting him." And I did say [6:20] that. I've said that the whole time that [6:22] I'm going to retire him without fighting [6:24] him. Uh but I don't kind of want to harp [6:26] on about that really. I want to kind of [6:28] just put that behind me and move forward [6:30] on my own path. Now I hear and you know, [6:33] John Jones is a an unpredictable [6:35] individual. So there's still a [6:36] possibility that that retirement wasn't [6:38] a legit retirement and that he might get [6:40] a bit bored and end up, you know, [6:42] deciding that he wants to come back and [6:43] fight you. Is that something that you [6:44] would consider if that were to happen? [6:47] I'm sure with where he's at, he can like [6:50] jump the queue anytime he wants. So, you [6:53] know, this time a year down the line, [6:55] we'll have another three or four [6:57] contenders knocking on for a title shot, [6:58] I'm sure. But anytime someone like him [7:01] wants to step up and say, "Listen, I [7:02] want to fight again." They're going to [7:03] get an immediate title shot. So, uh, I'm [7:06] never going to count that out. And I'm [7:07] sure that maybe he's, you know, I'm in a [7:10] spot in my career where there's not all [7:12] that much footage out there on me. Maybe [7:14] he sees something on me in the next few [7:16] fights and he thinks, you know what, I [7:17] can beat this guy. I'm going to come [7:18] back and beat him. So mentally, I'm [7:20] never counting that out. I think the the [7:22] the fight is always it could always pop [7:25] back up and come back around on me. So [7:27] that's something that I would obviously [7:28] accept. But as I said before, I think a [7:31] lot of people get it confused over the [7:33] last kind of 10 monthsish is that I was [7:36] chasing Jon Jones. That was never the [7:37] case. I was chasing the the undisputed [7:39] heavyweight title. That's it. So, if I [7:42] can if I do get the opportunity to put [7:43] Jon Jones on my resume, of course, I'll [7:45] I'll accept that with open arms. But if [7:47] not, I'm content. I'll move forward and [7:49] I'll uh create my own legacy without [7:52] him. And what what has changed [7:54] overnight? Is there as a UFC fan, is [7:56] there anything that I'm unaware of that [7:58] changes when Dana announces you as the [8:00] Undisputed? Does your contract change? [8:01] Does Does there anything that changes [8:05] other than the fact that you've now got [8:06] a sort of a clear path and you're now [8:08] the one being chased? You're no longer [8:09] chasing. Well, I was on uh cuz I was an [8:12] interim champ cuz I was a champion in my [8:13] own right as well. So, I I I was already [8:15] getting a lot of the uh a lot of the [8:19] perks that come with being a champion. [8:21] stuff like pay-per-view points is [8:22] something that you get when you're a [8:24] champion. You also get, you know, uh [8:26] pay-per-view points is where you get a [8:27] cut of the pay-per-view sales. Okay? So, [8:31] I don't want to go into the details of [8:32] my contracts, of course, but you'll get [8:34] if someone pays, you know, $60 for a [8:36] pay-per-view, you might get $2, you [8:38] might get $5 per bar, you might get 10 [8:40] people, different people have different [8:43] um different perks in the contract. So, [8:44] I I was already having that cuz I was a [8:46] I was a champion in my own right anyway. [8:48] But yeah, not nothing actually really [8:50] changes. Just the fact that there isn't [8:52] two belts anymore in the division, which [8:54] is great. There's one face, one name, [8:56] and one guy in in the division. And to [8:58] me, that is what that's what separates [9:01] uh MMA from other sports, other fight [9:03] sports at least, is that for example, in [9:05] boxing, you can have like five, six, [9:07] seven, eight, even sometimes different [9:10] organization. You got the WBO, the WBC, [9:12] the IBO, the IBF, and all these [9:15] different ones that I don't even know [9:16] about. and they all have different [9:18] champions in each organization. Whereas [9:21] generally speaking, the number one guy [9:24] in the world is the UFC champion. And [9:27] before Jon Jones retired, there was two [9:29] of us in the division, which is a little [9:30] bit of a strange strange conundrum that [9:33] I wasn't comfortable being in. I think [9:34] that there should be one guy in every [9:36] division. And uh now that that John's [9:38] gone, obviously we didn't get to fight [9:40] about it, which I would have liked. Um, [9:42] but at least there's one guy and uh I'm [9:45] I'm happy with that moving forward. And [9:47] who's the who's the number one contender [9:49] now? You're now being chased, right? You [9:51] were doing a little bit of chasing in [9:52] terms of trying to get that um unified, [9:54] but but who in your mind is the number [9:56] one contender now for the heavyweight [9:58] title belt. Oh, that's uh that's I'm I'm [10:02] more than happy being chased. That's [10:04] fantastic. I I would rather be the [10:07] hunted as opposed to the Hunter because [10:09] I' i've been chas I don't like chasing [10:10] fights. I like just being the guy and [10:12] everyone comes to me. That's fantastic. [10:14] So, most the I've actually fought a lot [10:16] of the top 10. Um, one of the guys I've [10:18] not fought is uh Sir Gana, French guy. [10:21] That's a a fight that I was look I was [10:22] actually chasing that fight a few times [10:24] before. He was he was ducking and diving [10:28] around himself a little bit. So, he is [10:29] due a little bit of a beating off me. I [10:31] look forward to that. Um, couple more [10:34] guys down the rankings. A Brazilian guy [10:36] Jelton Almeida I've not fought. There's [10:38] a guy I've already beat called Alexander [10:40] Vulkov who's doing really well for [10:42] himself as well. So, who knows? You [10:44] never know in the heavyweight division. [10:45] There's a couple of up andcoming guys [10:46] who I've not mentioned as well. So, [10:48] there's some some good fights to be made [10:50] over the next couple of years for sure. [10:51] If I were to say myself, it'd be great [10:53] to see you fight gone in uh in London or [10:56] in the UK somewhere um as your next [10:58] fight. Do do you have any idea what [11:00] you're doing next and when you'll be [11:01] back in the Octagon? [11:05] I do, but I also want to keep I also [11:08] want to keep my job, so there's not much [11:10] I can say it to be honest. Um, but yeah, [11:13] this year, yeah, I'm going to be [11:15] fighting hopefully twice this year. [11:17] That's that's my plan at least. I think [11:18] I think I've wasted enough time um now. [11:21] So, um, we're looking for a quick we're [11:24] we're looking to get a fight booked [11:26] quick and it's looking like it's going [11:28] to be, you know, pretty soon anyway. Um, [11:30] and then hopefully if everything goes [11:32] well in the first one, um, I'm [11:34] uninjured, which is, you know, it's [11:36] easier said than done, uh, getting [11:38] through a fight with with a guy my size [11:40] and and coming out with no injuries. [11:42] But, um, if I if I can do that, I would [11:44] like to fight at the end of the year as [11:45] well. That'd be perfect. [11:48] And, uh, are you off to training now? [11:50] Are you you're flying out to Vegas, so [11:51] I'm assuming you're you're going to the [11:53] UFC center out there and starting [11:54] training? [11:56] No. So, I'm I'm training constantly [11:58] regardless if I've got a fight or not. [12:00] The only thing that changes for me is [12:01] basically intensity in uh in the [12:04] sessions, but I'm actually going to [12:06] Vegas for well, I am the heavyweight [12:08] champion of the world, so they're going [12:09] to want me at the big shows. Uh so, I'm [12:11] going to I'm going to be showing my face [12:12] there, doing a little bit of media and [12:14] stuff. I will, of course, be doing a [12:15] little bit of training, you know, ju [12:16] just different stuff. I'm working with a [12:18] new sponsor who I'm going to be with [12:19] till the end of my career, which is [12:20] Champion. So, I'll be working with them [12:22] out there and uh just doing bits for the [12:25] UFC, meeting fans and and doing bits of [12:27] training, just being around the scene. [12:28] And I don't often, to be honest, I'm so [12:31] routine and I'm so routine based and [12:35] goal focused that I don't like to leave [12:37] my home routine and training regimen [12:40] that often. So, uh, when I go to the US [12:42] and do things like this, I like to do as [12:44] much in a short space of time as [12:45] possible so I can get back to my, uh, [12:47] cuz I know what I know what I need to do [12:49] to to be good and to win fights and, uh, [12:52] that's be at home and be in my routine [12:54] and and be focused. So, I don't like to [12:56] leave my routine too much and go [12:58] overseas and do all this other stuff. [13:00] So, I'll be killing as many birds with [13:02] one stone in this trip as possible. [13:05] You're um, you're a family man, Tom. I [13:07] got a real understanding of that in the [13:09] conversation that I'm about to play. Um, [13:10] your family very close to you. You're a [13:12] father. What's the reaction been like [13:14] with your your partner, your your your [13:16] kids, your your father, your your [13:17] parents over the last couple of hours [13:19] since you've been crowned as the [13:20] undisputed. [13:22] Uh, to be honest, um, it didn't really [13:25] make much of a difference. I think a lot [13:26] of people said the same thing outside of [13:28] my family as well. It was like you were [13:30] kind of the champion anyway cuz I think [13:32] the way that Jon Jones played it the [13:34] last year or so, it just didn't a lot of [13:36] people didn't see him as the the unified [13:39] heavyweight champion anyway. So, I think [13:41] a lot of people close to me, like I told [13:43] my kids this morning, they were just [13:44] like not bothered at all. Didn't make [13:48] didn't make the slightest bit of [13:49] difference. I said, "Look, I'm only [13:51] telling you so when your friends tell [13:52] you at school, you'll know." And they [13:54] were like, "Okay, fair enough." That [13:55] that was it. There was no there was no [13:57] great reaction there. Say to them, what [13:59] did you say to them? Well, it was just [14:01] my my it's mainly my oldest son because [14:03] my my twins, they're a little bit too [14:04] young to really understand. They've just [14:06] turned six, so they don't really get it. [14:07] But my oldest son's nine almost. Um his [14:10] friends are following MMA a little bit [14:13] more. So, he kind of they started [14:14] thinking it's cool now. So, I told my [14:16] son, I was like, "Listen, I just let you [14:18] know, Jon Jones retired. I'm the [14:20] undisputed champion now. I've got, you [14:22] know, this one." And he was just like, [14:24] "Oh, okay." And I was like, I'm just I [14:26] know you're not that bothered. I'm just [14:28] letting you know. So if your friends say [14:29] anything, you know. And he was like, [14:30] okay, thanks. John's probably watching [14:33] this. Um he has undoubtedly had one of [14:36] the greatest careers in the history of [14:37] the UFC up there with the likes of Kabib [14:39] and many of the legends through history. [14:41] What would you say to him if he was [14:43] watching this now? [14:47] That's it's a great question. I I don't [14:49] I don't know if he will be watching [14:50] this. I'm not sure. But if he if he is, [14:53] uh I think he's had an amazing career [14:55] and I think he should enjoy the rest of [14:57] his life. I think if he if he truly [15:00] feels like he's done enough, which he [15:02] keeps saying that he does, he will be at [15:04] peace. He doesn't need me or anybody [15:06] else to tell him uh how good he's done. [15:09] He should he'll know it himself. So uh I [15:12] hope that he's he's enjoying his life. [15:14] He's enjoying his family and he's [15:16] celebrating his career because it's been [15:17] amazing. Tom, uh congratulations. I [15:20] think I speak on behalf of a lot of [15:22] Brits and really people all around the [15:24] world when I say that um you're the [15:26] champion I think the UFC especially at [15:28] that the heavyweight division has really [15:30] been longing for someone who wants to be [15:32] active someone who is um seeking the [15:36] biggest fights someone who is willing to [15:38] fight anybody but also someone that's [15:40] just really really relatable and I think [15:42] sends a message to all of all of us that [15:44] what I'd class as a very normal guy from [15:47] humble beginnings can reach the very top [15:49] of the professional um pyramid as it [15:52] relates to sports and entertainment. So, [15:54] thank you so much for representing the [15:56] UK in UF in the UFC, especially at the [15:59] heavyweight level, which we've never had [16:00] before. But, I will all be rooting for [16:02] you uh for so many reasons because of [16:04] who you are, but also because of the [16:06] exciting way that you've um conducted [16:08] yourself in and outside of the octagon. [16:10] So, I'm going to let you go. Um we're [16:12] going to play the interview now that we [16:13] recorded a little while ago, but um [16:15] yeah, going to be watching your career [16:16] very, very closely and um going to be [16:17] ringside whenever you fight next. Uh, I [16:19] know there's a lot of people that are [16:20] going to turn out to support you. So, [16:22] thank you so much, Tom. Thank you very [16:24] much for having me. And, uh, if you're [16:27] there, as always, cuz we know each other [16:30] now. And I know it's difficult when you [16:32] know somebody personally. Um, [16:35] anytime I fight, you got to strap in. Be [16:37] ready for anything because it's [16:38] heavyweight MMA at the highest level and [16:42] anything can happen. So, thank you for [16:44] having me, Stephen, and I look forward [16:45] to uh to seeing you there. Thank you. [16:51] Tom, if I had met you when you were a [16:53] kid and I'd asked you, what do you want [16:56] to be when you're older, what would you [16:58] have said to me? [17:00] Well, it depends on the age, of course, [17:03] but I think if you would have asked me [17:04] from the age of being [17:08] 9 years old and above, I would have said [17:11] that I'm going to be UFC heavyweight [17:12] champion at 9 years old. Yeah. As soon [17:15] as I kind of like went to a gym and I [17:19] realized there's people in this gym who [17:22] are adults and they don't have a regular [17:25] job and they're just showing up to the [17:26] gym every day and fighting every few [17:28] months and getting money for it. Like I [17:31] was I was literally like this is what I [17:33] want to do. So take me back. So where do [17:36] you where did you come from for someone [17:38] that doesn't know who you are? They [17:39] don't know your story. They don't know [17:40] Tom Aspenol's origin. Where did you come [17:43] from? Um, so I'm from a place I was born [17:46] in Sulford, which is like Greater [17:48] Manchester, and then I moved to a [17:50] different part of Greater Manchester, a [17:52] place called Allison. There's not a lot [17:53] of stuff going on there to be honest. I [17:55] mean, it's just like a normal [17:57] workingass blue collar place. Do you [18:00] know what I mean? A lot a lot of [18:02] families like the parents work in [18:04] factories, they [18:07] mechanics, they [18:10] plumbers. And what were your family in [18:12] that context? So, my dad originally [18:16] worked in IT. He got paid some [18:19] redundancy money and then he decided to [18:22] start teaching grappling full-time, [18:24] which we're talking when we're talking [18:26] like 20 years ago, the grappling [18:29] industry in the UK was non-existent. And [18:33] obviously, I was quite a I was a [18:36] budding, but I wasn't I wasn't even like [18:38] a budding prospect at the time. My dad [18:40] had no fights at the time, but I was [18:42] training and I was enjoying my training [18:43] and my dad wanted to spend more time [18:45] perfecting me to help me do what I enjoy [18:47] a little bit more. So, was he the [18:49] inspiration for you to go to the gym the [18:51] first time and start training or So, [18:53] it's difficult to say because I had like [18:55] a bit of a blurred line as to where I [18:57] started actually training martial arts. [19:00] So, I started training when I was young, [19:02] but it was my dad's thing more and I [19:03] just used to go with my dad like to [19:05] spend some time with my dad and cuz I [19:06] didn't really have much else to do. But [19:08] I used to always go down to the gym and [19:10] when I started training there were no [19:11] like kids classes. Like now you can go [19:13] to the end of the road and there'll be [19:14] an MMA gym with kids classes on with 20 [19:17] kids in the class. Like that wasn't my [19:18] case when I started at 8 n years old. [19:21] Like I used to go to the gym there used [19:22] to be 10 40 year old guys rolling around [19:25] on the floor with each other and I just [19:27] used to jump in when there was a smaller [19:29] guy available. Otherwise I'd just be [19:31] like kicking the football around the gym [19:33] or something like that. Like basically [19:34] I've grown up in in gyms. But when I [19:37] actually started training seriously, [19:39] that was probably when I was like 14, [19:41] 13, 14, something like that. And was [19:43] there ever a moment in those early years [19:44] where you realized or someone said [19:48] something to you that you can still [19:49] remember that proved to you that you [19:51] were better than normal people at this [19:53] thing? I do remember a few instances. [19:56] Like I said, I used to train with adults [19:58] even when I was a child. [20:00] And I was quite aware even from being [20:03] young that the adults were like taking [20:05] it easy on me, you know, like they were [20:07] letting me get position and letting me [20:09] do certain things on them and they [20:11] weren't really trying as much. And uh I [20:14] remember [20:16] feeling like the adults are starting [20:19] going harder on me. Do if that makes [20:21] sense. Does that make sense? I remember [20:23] I used to just have all my own way in [20:25] training because the adults a lot of the [20:26] time were like my dad's friends and his [20:28] students and then they would I would [20:30] always be around the gym so they'd know [20:31] me and they take it easy and stuff like [20:33] that. And then I remember like a couple [20:35] of the couple of the guys who I trained [20:37] with, like I said, I was like 11, 12 [20:38] years old. And I remember a couple of [20:40] the guys like it became a lot more [20:43] physical training. Like it became a lot [20:45] more competitive whereas before they [20:46] were just like letting me do my thing [20:47] and then they started fighting back a [20:50] little bit more. And then I remember [20:51] thinking, ah, well, I must be all right. [20:52] like if if they're trying I remember [20:55] realizing that people actually started [20:57] trying against me and then they finish [20:58] around and look like they'd done a [21:01] workout a little bit rather than just [21:02] played with a kid if that makes sense. [21:04] And was that I'm trying to figure out as [21:06] well the the thing that encouraged you [21:09] to keep going at that point because at [21:11] that age you can end up playing [21:12] football, you can end up going and [21:13] joining this club, you can end up [21:14] focusing on some drama class that you're [21:16] doing but there must have been something [21:18] that kind of held you in this habit. I [21:20] mean I definitely tried all that stuff. [21:22] I definitely um I mean my area is like [21:24] quite a big rugby area. So like rugby [21:26] league we play up there and uh I [21:28] definitely delved in that a little bit [21:30] but I just never really was my thing you [21:32] know. I think cuz my dad and my brother [21:35] was heavily involved with martial arts [21:37] and that's just where I always felt like [21:39] safe to a degree is like in the gym. I [21:42] know it sounds really weird, but I felt [21:44] like when you're involved in martial [21:46] arts, it's almost like there can be 10 [21:47] guys in the room and they can all be [21:49] from different backgrounds, [21:51] male, female, one guy can be 12 years [21:54] old, the other guy can be 65 years old. [21:57] One guy's retired, the other guy's at [21:58] college, one guy's black, the other [22:00] guy's Chinese. It doesn't matter. Like [22:02] when you're in there, it none of that [22:04] matters. And everyone just respects each [22:06] other and gets on regardless of like [22:08] race, gender, age, [22:11] what the job is. And none of that stuff [22:13] matters. Everyone just respects each [22:14] other the same. And I was always like [22:16] drawn to that more than anything. I was [22:18] that's where I always felt my most [22:20] comfortable. And especially cuz I was a [22:21] bit more of a shy kid. I felt like I [22:24] could really express myself through [22:27] martial arts. And something else about [22:28] martial arts is like cuz it's an [22:30] individual sport. it's like always on [22:33] you if you do well or not. And I [22:36] realized like the more time I put in, [22:38] the more I got out of it, like mentally [22:41] and physically, like I would get better [22:44] the more I did it. Whereas with team [22:46] sports, especially rugby because that's [22:48] the team sport I've done the most. Like [22:50] there would be games where I personally [22:54] had had like an amazing game, but the [22:56] team had lost and I could see the next [22:59] guy not trying as hard as me. or [23:01] sometimes vice versa. Sometimes they'd, [23:03] you know, I'd had a terrible game, but [23:05] the team had won and everyone would be [23:06] really happy and I'd be like, "Oh, I had [23:08] a bad game." And I couldn't I could [23:10] never shake that. I'd always like want [23:11] to I always liked control. Control. [23:14] Yeah. Being in charge of like my own [23:17] thing. And MMA in particular is very [23:19] much that it's like if you're not [23:21] putting the work in, like you will get [23:23] exposed. You will get your ego checked [23:25] literally on a daily basis if you're not [23:27] doing what you need to do. And I love [23:29] that like it gives you a sense of like [23:31] accountability for [23:33] just your everyday habits like your [23:36] thought process, what you're putting in [23:38] your body, how much recovery you're [23:39] getting, how many reps are you doing in [23:41] the gym, everything like everything is [23:44] accounted for publicly and I quite like [23:47] that. I quite love that actually. Um, [23:49] your mother in this picture, where does [23:50] she fit into this picture you've painted [23:52] for me? And who is she? Uh, she first of [23:54] all, she is the nicest woman that has [23:56] ever walked the face of the earth. I [23:58] think she is such a lovely person. Yeah, [23:59] there is literally, you know, when [24:01] someone says the term, oh, she's not got [24:02] or they've not got a bad bone in the [24:04] body, that literally applies to my mom. [24:07] But as far as So, my last fight that I [24:10] had, which is in Manchester, my home my [24:12] hometown. That was the first fight that [24:14] my mom's ever been to really. And I'm [24:16] already like number one in the world. [24:18] I'm like, bloody hell, mom, you've lived [24:20] it this long. But yeah, she she is she [24:23] just stays away from the MMA side of [24:25] things. She is just a mom, which is [24:27] great. That's amazing. She is a really [24:29] really uh lovely person. Why was that [24:32] the first fight she'd ever come to? Cuz [24:34] it's scary. And I You didn't want her to [24:37] come or No, it's not No, it's not that I [24:39] didn't want her to. I I was It's never [24:42] been like her thing. So, I would never [24:44] like be like, "Oh, mom, can you please [24:45] come?" Because I know it's I know like [24:48] firsthand, even from like teammates [24:51] fighting, how scary it is for me to be [24:53] in attendance. So, I would never like [24:56] drag along someone who loves me because [24:57] it's it's horrendous to be honest with [24:59] you. Like, it's such an unpredictable [25:00] sport that [25:02] you just never know. So, but I think my [25:05] mom came because I was like, "Look, Mom, [25:07] I don't want to tell you to come or not [25:09] come, but this is probably the only time [25:12] I'm ever going to fight in Manchester. [25:14] Like, I don't know how many fights I've [25:16] got left. And I'm I'm under the notion [25:18] that I would rather retire a little bit [25:21] too early than a little bit too late [25:22] because I've seen the way people get [25:25] late in the career. And I don't I don't [25:26] want to be like that. So I'm not saying [25:28] I'm going to retire anytime soon. But [25:30] I'm just saying like most of my fights [25:32] are in the US now and I don't think [25:34] you'll ever have a chance to see me [25:36] fight live again. So I think you should [25:38] come to this one. And uh she came and [25:40] apparently she enjoyed it. Um, as you're [25:43] talking about the role that martial arts [25:45] has played in your life, it got me [25:46] thinking about about young men in [25:48] general because young men in general [25:50] seem to be really struggling at the [25:51] moment when we look at a lot of the [25:52] statistics around like suicidal [25:54] ideiation and purposelessness and um it [25:57] made me as you were speaking I was like [26:00] damn I need to do martial arts. So if [26:03] there is young men listening to this [26:05] that are struggling in their lives in [26:06] any way, what advice would you give them [26:09] in terms of martial arts or those early [26:13] life decisions or even later life [26:15] decisions about you know something that [26:17] they can do to find that sense of [26:18] purpose that you so clearly found? [26:21] I mean let me first of all start by [26:22] saying I would be completely lost [26:24] without it. I think everybody should do [26:26] it honestly because I think that [26:30] it puts your ego in check massively [26:32] because you constantly like every time [26:34] you step onto a mat to train you're [26:36] getting a you're getting hit in the face [26:38] with reality constantly and if you [26:40] haven't been [26:43] like for me it's like you're getting hit [26:44] in the face with reality and if you're [26:46] not consistent that reality will hit you [26:49] harder and harder each time. So it [26:51] creates a sense of like purpose in your [26:54] life. You're almost like scared. It's [26:57] not it's not fear, but it's like you [27:01] don't want to miss because you don't [27:03] want to get hit with the reality. Like [27:04] you don't want to be inconsistent with [27:05] your training because you don't want to [27:08] be hit harder by the reality next time [27:09] you go. If that makes sense. Makes [27:11] perfect sense. I just think that it [27:12] gives you just a massive structure in [27:14] your life. Not only that, not not to [27:16] mention the stuff like look, I'm not [27:19] going to sit here and talk about crime [27:20] rates or anything like that because I [27:22] don't know the the statistics, but I [27:25] know that in this country especially, [27:27] crime is pretty high right now. Mhm. So, [27:29] my friend who's come with me who's [27:31] upstairs, Charlie, he does my social [27:33] media and he's also a close close friend [27:36] of mine as well and he's a similar age [27:39] to me. is 32 and he's literally just [27:42] started training because I literally [27:44] said to him like Charlie I say this to [27:46] everybody who's not involved in martial [27:48] arts [27:50] if you need to and I'm not saying you [27:51] need to be a world champion you need to [27:53] train every but you need to have a [27:55] general idea of how to defend yourself [27:57] if it ever happens like you don't need [28:00] to be good you don't need to have a [28:02] fight you don't need to be preparing to [28:04] fight someone in a ring in a cage or [28:05] whatever but I think everybody should be [28:08] comfortable with the general eneral idea [28:10] of how to defend theel if they need to. [28:12] Whether that be if you own a house, if [28:14] you have children, if you have a [28:16] girlfriend or a boyfriend or whatever, [28:18] if you have somebody who you might need [28:20] to protect who can't protect the self or [28:22] something that you might need to [28:23] protect, you need to have some kind of [28:25] idea on on how to protect that in my [28:28] that's that's my opinion. Um because [28:31] fighting is a scary thing at the best. [28:33] It's like I'm the number one heavyweight [28:35] in the world right now and I'm scared to [28:36] fight somebody. So, like I wouldn't like [28:40] to be completely clueless because it [28:43] must be so scary and I think that it [28:45] would be I I would recommend it to [28:46] anybody of any age to do some kind of [28:49] martial arts. So, there's a couple of [28:51] things you said there which I'm most [28:52] certainly going to ask you about. The [28:54] first thing you said was about how [28:56] martial arts brings the consequence of [28:58] like a lack of discipline Yeah. up close [29:01] but also increases the consequence. And [29:03] I was I was thinking as you were saying [29:04] that I was thinking, "Oh my god, this is [29:05] so true." Because if I if I'm a [29:08] 18-year-old guy and I'm sat this on the [29:10] sofa at home doing nothing with my life, [29:12] the consequence of that is quite hard to [29:14] see in the short term. What you're [29:16] saying is by doing martial arts, the [29:17] consequence becomes weekly and becomes [29:20] you're going to get your [ __ ] nose [29:21] broken. Yeah. So, so that's motivating [29:24] to get you get your life together. And [29:25] then the other thing you said is I'm the [29:27] number one in the world and even I'm [29:29] scared to fight somebody. Yeah. Who? [29:31] Who? Yeah. Everybody. [29:33] I don't want to fight anybody. I don't I [29:35] mean I want to fight professionally. I [29:37] love doing that. But I mean as far as [29:38] like a a confrontation with somebody. [29:41] That's the last thing I'm trying to do. [29:42] I don't want to do that with anybody. So [29:44] you weren't saying that you're scared to [29:46] fight a particular person. Well, yeah. [29:47] Yeah. I mean Yeah. I'm scared to fight [29:49] everybody. Yeah. And I think that that [29:52] for for professional [29:55] combat athletes across the board, [29:58] whether that's boxing, kickboxing, [30:00] wrestling, MMA, whatever you're into, I [30:02] think that's like a very very uh taboo [30:05] subject is like fear because everybody [30:08] wants to be this like big like I'm a [30:10] freaking 6'5, [30:12] 115 kilo guy with like cauliflower ears [30:15] and everything like tattoos and the [30:17] whole lot. It's pretty difficult to sit [30:19] here and say like I'm scared to fight [30:21] anybody and like have that and be and be [30:24] literally the number one heavyweight in [30:26] the world. But kind of the realization [30:28] of the fear that I've got [30:31] now that I understand fear and what it [30:33] is and what it does for me, it just [30:35] fuels me so much to do what I do. In [30:37] MMA, we have terms like a gym warrior. [30:41] people call it like a someone who spars [30:44] in the gym really really well and then [30:46] they get under the lights and they don't [30:48] fight anywhere near what they do in the [30:51] gym. Now, generally speaking, that is [30:53] because they don't understand fear [30:55] properly. And I think I've got in a [30:58] place where I completely understand that [31:00] fear fuels me in a way that nothing else [31:03] can fuel me and I'm completely [31:04] comfortable with it. I'm super intrigued [31:07] by this. So I want to talk about this um [31:10] this idea of fear but also the journey [31:12] that you've been on with fear. Yeah. So [31:14] have you always been fearful to fight [31:16] people? Yeah. And I think that if you're [31:19] not, you're either lying to yourself or [31:21] you're a complete idiot. Yeah. I think I [31:24] think [31:25] if you are going to sit in an arena and [31:28] the arena's packed to the rims with 20 [31:30] plus thousand people and there's another [31:33] guy over the other side of the arena [31:35] waiting to fight you who's trained for [31:36] the last 10 weeks and you've got to meet [31:38] him in the center of the octagon with [31:40] millions of people watching around the [31:42] world and know that you can get [31:44] separated from your own consciousness [31:45] and you're not scared. You're either [31:47] lying to yourself or you're just a [31:49] complete idiot with your mom watching [31:52] for the first time ever. [31:57] Yeah. I mean, [31:59] I see you guys do the walk outs and I'm [32:01] just like, [32:04] wow. Yeah, it's crazy. It's hard to ever [32:06] comment on someone being good or bad at [32:08] something that it takes that much [32:10] courage to do that I've clearly not [32:12] demonstrated in my own life. So, so [32:14] fear. So, you've always been scared to [32:16] you've always had fear when faced with [32:18] an opponent, but you also alluded to the [32:20] fact that there's work that you've done [32:22] to overcome that fear or to put it into [32:24] perspective, I guess. Yeah. What's that [32:25] work? The the gym warrior and the guy [32:29] who's under the lights is can be two [32:31] different people. And I've seen it a lot [32:33] over the years. I've seen it so much. [32:35] Um, still see it now. Still see it all [32:37] the time. See, when you train, this is [32:39] this is my personal opinion. This is not [32:41] fact, but this is my personal opinion. [32:44] I would say the training aspect is [32:45] probably around 80% physical and 20% [32:48] mental. The training aspect [32:51] on fight night when you are in that [32:54] arena and you are you have got them [32:56] bright lights beaming down on you and [32:58] you can hear the crowd going crazy and [33:00] you know that there's millions of people [33:02] watching you. You've got them tiny [33:03] gloves on. There's another massive guy [33:05] stood across from you with his shirt [33:06] off. I believe it completely flips and [33:10] becomes about 80 plus% mental. I [33:14] remember somebody, I actually can't [33:16] remember who it was, it might have even [33:17] been on a podcast or something saying, [33:19] "Look, we spend all this time preparing [33:21] physically because to be an MMA fighter, [33:23] you have to dedicate a lot of time, and [33:25] I mean a lot of time to preparing [33:26] physically." So that that can be [33:29] you know I train around about between [33:32] three and five hours a day possibly on [33:34] the physical training and that's not to [33:36] mention the stretching, the eating, the [33:38] sleeping, the physio, [33:41] the sauners, the all the other stuff [33:43] that comes with becoming a good athlete. [33:45] So I'm probably dedicating a solid [33:47] most of the 24 hours a day if you're [33:49] going to count sleeping as well, which I [33:51] believe is a part of being a [33:52] professional athlete [33:55] is dedicated to me becoming the best [33:57] version an athlete of myself as [33:59] possible. Now you're dedicating all that [34:01] time to training physically. [34:04] How much are you dedicating to mental [34:06] the mental aspect? And if you would ask [34:10] most fighters, especially at the top [34:12] level, you're talking top 10 guys in the [34:14] world, what do you think is the most [34:15] important aspect, the physical side or [34:17] the mental side? I will guarantee at [34:18] least 50% of them guys would say the [34:21] mental side. Now, if you're comparing [34:24] mental and physical, we're spending this [34:26] much time on the physical side, but this [34:29] much time on the mental side, next to [34:31] nothing. And uh I could see a massive [34:35] discrepancy in that. And I wanted to [34:38] bring the bring the mental side up. So [34:40] you're in the mental gym, too. Oh, all [34:42] the time. And what is that? A lot of uh [34:44] a lot of visualization. Okay. So, talk [34:46] me through this. Give me I want as much [34:48] detail as possible. Okay. Okay. So, I [34:51] work with a hypnotherapist, which I [34:52] think is very important. Yeah. I write [34:54] stuff down. [34:56] I have stuff where I can see it. I'll [35:00] look at that a lot. Even stuff like I'm [35:04] just a massive daydreamer. massive [35:06] daydreamer [35:08] and [35:09] I can just see in my mind clearly this [35:12] is something that's programmed into me [35:13] for years and years and it's almost like [35:16] mental see in MMA we have a term and I [35:18] don't know if this goes across the board [35:19] but we call it drilling so like if [35:21] there's a technique if you're practicing [35:23] like a want to and you're doing it [35:25] repeatedly you call it drilling you're [35:27] drilling a want to drilling is like [35:29] repetition repetition I like mentally [35:32] drill situations so when you're talking [35:35] about the walk out. When I'm physically [35:37] walking out mentally, I've walked out [35:40] 10,000 times before I've actually [35:42] physically walked out. So, by the time [35:44] I'm there physically, I've been there so [35:46] many times mentally that it feels quite [35:49] quite normal to me. And then I [35:52] constantly tell myself that I got to [35:54] enjoy it because I'm completely aware [35:56] now, especially [35:58] I'm closer to the end than I am the [36:00] beginning now. Definitely. I don't know [36:01] when I'm going to retire. I have no [36:02] plans to retire right now, but I'm [36:04] definitely close to the end than I am [36:05] the beginning. And the moments that we [36:08] have, these walk out moments, these fear [36:11] moments of being stood in the cage with [36:12] another guy who stood in the cage with [36:14] me. And we know that once these [36:17] officials get out of the ring and they [36:18] close that cage, we are going to fight [36:20] and someone is going to win and [36:22] someone's going to lose. Like those are [36:23] really special moments and you have to [36:25] enjoy them because when I'm 60 years old [36:28] and I hopefully I've got grandkids and I [36:31] can I want to be telling them about [36:32] these special moments and not wishing [36:34] them away and really really enjoying [36:36] them. And that's something that mentally [36:38] I try and practice being in the moment [36:41] and enjoying it a lot. And I feel like a [36:43] lot of fighters they just [36:46] they're just so stressed about the end [36:48] result that they can't even focus on [36:50] enjoying the self in the right now. And [36:51] I know for me personally [36:54] when I'm enjoying myself that's when I [36:56] do my best. So I want to enjoy myself. I [36:59] want to talk to you about a few things [37:00] you said there. You talked about [37:01] visualization was what you mentioned [37:03] first and writing things down. What kind [37:06] of things do you write down and like [37:08] what what's your pro your whole process [37:09] there? Cuz I'm sure there's people at [37:10] home that would love to understand some [37:12] of these practices so that they can [37:13] implement them in their own life and [37:14] then also speak to the the value that [37:16] it's brought to your life doing these [37:17] kind of things. You talk about [37:18] visualization. People think about this [37:20] like weird woo woo kind of thing. Sit [37:22] sitting there with crystals on you and [37:24] weird music and meditate. It's not like [37:26] that. It's as simple as getting a piece [37:28] of paper, writing down this week I will [37:32] do this and enjoy it. That as simple as [37:35] that. That that's all I do. This year I [37:38] will win two fights. I will enjoy both [37:40] of them and I will perform to my best. [37:43] And just reading it every so often. And [37:44] how often do you do that? Is it [37:46] something you do at the start of the [37:46] year or is it just like sporadically? [37:48] really I'm not it's not something I I'm [37:51] not the kind of guy who goes right the [37:52] beginning of the year this is my uh [37:55] visualization board or anything like [37:56] that. Not that there's anything wrong [37:57] with that. That's just not what I do [37:59] personally. I just write when I feel [38:00] like writing stuff I'll write it and [38:02] most of the time I've got it in my [38:03] bedside table or I've got it somewhere [38:05] that I can see it and I'll pick it up. [38:07] I'll read it a few times the same [38:09] sentence. I'll put it down and I feel [38:11] like it's in there. I wrote recently [38:14] that things are working for me. [38:18] because I'm in a really weird situation [38:20] with my career that I've never really [38:21] been before [38:23] where um there's a lot of politics [38:25] involved in my my kind of next move with [38:28] John Jones. Yeah. I think I said to you [38:29] like off camera he's like usually it's [38:31] like right get off at the fight work [38:34] towards the fight [38:36] fight's over little bit of downtime [38:38] another fight work towards that fight [38:40] over blah blah blah. Whereas now I'm [38:42] just kind of like a little bit in limbo [38:44] when I don't know what's happening and [38:45] I'm just like ah usually I'm used to [38:48] like having my life mapped out as to [38:50] when I need to dedicate more time to [38:52] this and how much what training partners [38:54] coming there and what I need to focus [38:56] on. But now I'm just in a little bit [38:58] limbo where I don't know really what's [38:59] going on and I wanted to really write [39:02] down just to solidify that [39:05] all this is happening cuz I think when [39:07] when you are in those kind of situations [39:09] I know me personally I start to like [39:13] conspire in my own like that everyone's [39:15] conspiring against me like oh this is [39:17] not working out for me and I start [39:18] thinking negatively but I think [39:20] sometimes you just got to write down [39:21] like this is going to be all right like [39:23] this is whatever's happening right now I [39:25] don't know what it is and I I don't [39:26] know. I can't fix it personally cuz it's [39:28] nothing to do with me, but I know that [39:30] it's going to work. It's going to end up [39:31] all right and it's going to work out for [39:32] me. So, a couple of weeks ago, I [39:34] remember just writing that down, putting [39:35] it in the thing next to my bed. And uh [39:38] sometimes when I'm waking up, I'm [39:39] feeling a bit stressed. I'll just read [39:40] it, put it away, and then that's it. So, [39:43] any moment, maybe today, maybe now, [39:44] maybe your phone upstairs could have a [39:46] text message on it from Dana White [39:47] saying, "We're good to go." Yeah, pretty [39:50] much. I am now like training. I'm I [39:52] mean, I'm always training anyway. [39:54] training is a massive part of my life, [39:55] but I could get a text at any moment [39:57] telling me I'm gonna fight in six weeks [39:59] and that would be amazing. Um, and it [40:01] would be the biggest fight of all time. [40:03] Yeah, but I don't think that's going to [40:04] happen because they are giving it that [40:07] it's the definitely in my opinion [40:09] there's a few massive fights to be made [40:11] at the moment in MMA. Uh, but I think as [40:14] far as thirst from fans, this is the one [40:18] that people want to see the most. Um, [40:20] when I say that, does it make you [40:21] nervous? Uh everything I just said when [40:24] I said it was the biggest fight of all [40:25] time. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what [40:28] I want to do. Yeah. That's what I want [40:29] to be involved with. Yeah. That's that's [40:31] why we do this thing. We don't like I [40:33] have had a lot of fights [40:36] that nobody cared about in all honesty. [40:39] Like I've had a lot of fights. I think [40:41] don't people don't realize like they see [40:45] me and other guys at the top of the [40:46] division. You know, we're traveling the [40:48] world. We're making money. We're winning [40:49] titles. We're doing all this good stuff. [40:51] Honestly, most of my fights there was a [40:54] hundred people there and I came away [40:56] with 100 quid cash and nobody gave a [41:01] [ __ ] either way. Yeah, that's uh and [41:04] that's that's the realization of it. [41:06] Like MMA is such a tough sport to like a [41:10] lot of kids, not a lot of kids, but a [41:12] lot of parents if I meet a parent on the [41:13] street whose kids involved in MMA or [41:15] whatever, a lot of the time will say [41:17] like, "Oh, what advice have you got [41:19] for?" [41:20] And in all honesty, a lot of the time [41:24] I'm like have a backup plan because it's [41:28] so difficult to make any money out of uh [41:32] or any like I was saying I'm going to an [41:34] event tomorrow actually. It's a local [41:35] show. I was a amateur champion on the [41:37] show. It's a great show. Do you know [41:38] what I mean? There'll be there'll be a [41:39] couple of thousand people there tomorrow [41:41] and it's a there's got a big fight card. [41:44] Like there's maybe 20 fights on. So [41:47] there's 40 fighters fighting tomorrow [41:48] night. I'm going to it. And uh I was [41:51] chatting to to my friend last night [41:53] actually said, "Oh, is there anyone uh [41:55] decent on the couch?" "Yeah, yeah, [41:56] there's a couple of guys on." And he [41:58] said, "Oh, will will anybody go to the [42:00] UFC?" And we just got chatting about [42:01] that and and how that looks and how it [42:04] looks to get in the UFC. And and I said [42:07] to be honest with you, if one person out [42:10] of the 40 can buy a house from MMA, [42:14] I would be very surprised. And that's [42:17] one in 40 decent level. Like it's just [42:20] so hard to make a living out I've ever [42:22] made. There is absolutely no career path [42:24] to doing it really, especially in this [42:26] country. Like it's getting tougher and [42:28] tougher. And I'm trying to I'm trying to [42:31] raise as much awareness about MMA as [42:34] possible. I want kids to be able to look [42:37] at guys like me and other guys and be [42:40] like, if he's making a career out of it, [42:43] I can. But it is so hard in this [42:45] country. That's why I'm doing as much as [42:48] I can to try and get this thing as [42:49] mainstream as possible. I mean, even in [42:52] the UK, if I think there's been what, [42:53] hundreds of thousands of kids that [42:54] probably practiced MMA over the last [42:56] couple of years, and how many of them [42:59] really get to the point where they could [43:00] buy a house from it, you know, you can [43:02] name them like, you Conor McGregor, Ian [43:06] Garry, Patty Pimlet, Leon Edwards. I [43:10] mean, there there's definitely guys who [43:11] who have made a lot of money out of it [43:13] and and have a good living, but [43:15] honestly, like I've been around gyms all [43:17] my life, and I would say 95% of people [43:22] have never made more than five grand for [43:24] a fight. How much were you getting paid [43:26] throughout your amateur career? Cuz you [43:27] were an amateur fighter up until the [43:30] point where you basically ran out of [43:31] people you could fight. Y um I think you [43:33] had nine amateur fights, right? Nine, [43:35] which at the time was quite a lot. I [43:37] would always recommend get as much as [43:39] much experience as you can as an amateur [43:41] before you move on to pro. But yeah, so [43:43] as as an amateur, I was obviously [43:44] getting ticket money. So I'd sell sell [43:47] So the way it worked when I was fighting [43:49] as an amateur at least it was like if [43:51] you would sell a ticket for 30 quid, you [43:53] would get a fiverr of it. So the the [43:55] promoters would work off that like a [43:57] little percentage thing going. So of [43:58] those nine amateur fights, how much you [44:00] think you all together? [44:02] I was maybe making between 50 and 100 [44:05] quid a fight. Okay. Okay. So, that's [44:07] nearly a grand. Yeah. Nearly. Yeah. [44:09] Nearly a grand on that. And then you [44:11] went you had a professional run as well. [44:13] Was it seven fights as a professional in [44:14] MMA? [44:16] Before I got to the I have no idea. [44:18] Before I got to the UFC, probably Yeah, [44:19] maybe seven. Yeah. Down as seven. So, I [44:21] remember my first pro fight, I got 200 [44:23] quid. Okay. So, you you doubled doubled [44:25] it. Smashing it. I was absolutely [44:27] smashing it then. So, so that's Yeah. [44:30] Another So, you probably made two grand [44:32] or something there. And then the UFC [44:34] pays much better. Much better. much [44:36] better, which is when you can start to [44:37] make a living from it. Yeah. I mean, [44:39] they start off pretty good. Uh the thing [44:42] I'm really lucky in the fact that I've [44:44] got a fan friendly style, so people want [44:47] to see me fight, especially [44:48] heavyweights. People want to see a lot a [44:50] lot of the people like who are not [44:54] they've not got a technically trained [44:55] eye. They want to see two guys punching [44:59] each other and one guy unconscious. That [45:01] that's that's the brutality of it. And [45:02] that's the that's the reality of it. And [45:04] my style, generally speaking, brings [45:07] that. Well, I mean, generally speaking, [45:09] don't you hold the world record for the [45:11] average fastest time I do. Yeah. That a [45:13] fight ends. Yes. Yeah. Which is pretty [45:15] crazy. So, I mean, that's why you're [45:17] such a draw, right? Cuz you're knocking [45:19] everyone out within 2 minutes on [45:20] average. Yep. Yeah. So, [45:23] like you I progress through contracts [45:25] and money quite quickly because of my [45:27] style, but not everybody does. So, [45:29] generally speaking, you get in the UFC, [45:31] you get what's called show money, which [45:33] is your money to show up, which is what [45:36] what can you tell me? Usually, it's 10 [45:38] grand. Yeah. Dollars. Yeah. [45:41] And I mean, people's contracts are [45:44] different, but I'm just speaking [45:45] generally. People start off at 10 and [45:47] 10. They get show money, win money. So, [45:50] generally speaking, and this this varies [45:53] amongst, you know, if someone's got a [45:55] career in another big organization, [45:58] sometimes they'll sign him for more than [46:00] that, but I was coming off a regional [46:02] show, so I I think I I either got 10 and [46:04] 10 or 12 and 12, I can't remember. But [46:06] generally speaking, it's like you get [46:08] your show money, which is between 10 and [46:10] 15k dollars, and then your win bonus is [46:15] double your show money usually. So, 10 [46:18] and 10, 12 and 12, 15. How long are you [46:21] on that contract? They usually do four [46:23] fights. Okay. But the thing is they can [46:25] terminate that at any time. So if you're [46:28] in like a fight that's boring, it's a [46:30] bit of a stinker. Even if you win, they [46:32] can just be like, "Yeah, we're done. [46:34] Done with that." Interesting. Yeah. So [46:36] if it's four fights, you're getting 10 [46:38] and 10. You could earn that's 80k. If [46:42] you win, you usually go up. So it' be [46:43] like 10 and 10, 12 and 12, 14 and 14, 16 [46:47] and 16, something like that. Okay. The [46:49] low end is you could make 80K from those [46:51] first. Yeah. But if you lose, you're [46:53] just getting 10. That's the uh Oh, yeah. [46:56] You can make 40K. Yeah. And generally [46:57] speaking, like if you go 10 and 10, you [47:00] win. You go 12 and 12, you win. You go [47:04] 14 and 14, but you lose that one, you go [47:07] back to 12 and 12. Does that make sense? [47:09] Okay. But if you have an exciting style [47:13] and the UFC like you, see, I'm very [47:15] lucky because I'm from the UK and people [47:18] from the UK get behind the fighters a [47:19] lot of the time and I'm very lucky that [47:21] I've got that myself. So I did [47:25] 10 and 10 and then I think [47:28] 12 and 12 if I remember rightly. And [47:29] then they resigned me then because I had [47:31] two first round finishes. Oh. So they [47:33] resigned me for a bigger contract then [47:35] which was great. And then I they sign me [47:37] for another four fights and then you [47:38] know you win a couple more in exciting [47:40] fashion and you can you can get bigger [47:41] contracts. You don't have to stay for [47:43] the four. So after two fights you got a [47:45] new deal. Yes. And that drastically [47:47] changes the money. Yes. Yeah. Like from [47:50] still in the tens. Still in the tens. [47:52] Yeah. Bigger tens. 50s. Yeah. Yeah. [47:54] Yeah. Cuz I thought it was 50. I thought [47:56] that I thought um someone like Ian Gary [47:59] who came in from uh what's the [48:01] organization he came in? Cage Warriors. [48:02] Cage Warriors. I also came in from Cage [48:03] Warriors. Oh, okay. So he must have been [48:05] I thought he was on 50. I mean he might [48:07] have been he might have been like yeah [48:10] maybe he was I don't know like I say it [48:11] varies from person to person but from my [48:13] experience I came in is either 10 and 10 [48:15] or 12 and 12. I can't remember exactly. [48:17] And when does the big the big like six [48:19] figure show money begin? So [48:23] I got a a good contract because I took [48:27] the title fight on two weeks notice. So [48:30] I was in a bit of a position there where [48:31] like I could kind of like save the card [48:34] because there was a title fight on the [48:35] card. Somebody pulled out. They asked me [48:38] to step in. So you know I was in a [48:40] position that the UFC was kind kind of [48:42] like needed me a little bit then. So um [48:45] but to answer the question, everyone's [48:47] different with that. But with the money [48:50] aspect, it's like when you start [48:52] becoming popular and winning fights that [48:54] when people want to see you basically. [48:55] That's it's just as much about do people [48:58] want to watch you fight. That's that's [49:01] like a bit it's not just about winning [49:03] fights. Winning fights is extremely [49:05] important, but [49:07] you you got to make people want to see [49:09] you. So that was against Ser Sergey [49:12] Pavlovich. That's right. In that was in [49:14] the the end of 2023. Yes. November. And [49:18] that was your first six figure payday [49:20] because you took that massive fight on [49:22] short notice. Yes. It was your biggest [49:25] payday? It was my biggest paid uh at the [49:26] time. I got a bigger one in my last [49:28] fight. Oh, but it was your biggest [49:29] payday up until that point? By far. By [49:31] far. By far. By how much far? By more [49:35] than double. More than double. Okay. And [49:37] that was a six figure payday. Yes. Okay. [49:40] The reason why that's so surprising and [49:42] interesting is because you were fighting [49:43] at that point for the interim [49:45] heavyweight title. Yeah. [49:48] So, I'm thinking about those kids back [49:49] in Sulford. Yeah. And if they if they [49:51] want to get a life-threatening six [49:54] figure, cuz that's what it is. Six [49:56] figure payday. Then the journey that you [49:59] went on is from the age of what? Seven [50:02] years old. You started seven, eight, [50:03] something like that. Yeah. Till you were [50:06] 30 years old. Yeah. So, 23 years for you [50:09] to get a six figure payday from a [50:12] heavyweight UFC title. It's a long time. [50:16] It's a lot of work. Yeah, it's a whole [50:18] lot of work. Yeah. I was thinking about [50:20] your story arc and if if you were to [50:21] like paint it on a graph, like draw on a [50:23] graph. Am I right in thinking it's like [50:26] slow, flat, and then quite sudden? Oh, [50:29] yeah. There's a lot Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [50:30] Yeah. There's there's a lot of that gone [50:31] on. They say, don't they something like [50:34] it takes years to to become an overnight [50:36] success or whatever. And that's exactly [50:39] what I'm dealing with. Yeah. Yeah. It's [50:41] crazy. Like you say, I've been going [50:42] since I was 8 years old. And the stuff [50:44] that I've gone through in that time is [50:47] unbelie I'm a massive believer in like [50:50] just outlasting people like just being [50:54] consistent and outlasting people a lot [50:56] of the time overtakes [50:58] anything else like there's so many times [51:02] and a lot of it is down to my dad as [51:04] well is like I've wanted to quit and [51:06] he's just remind don't get me wrong I I [51:08] have quit a couple of times uh with MMA [51:11] and uh it's been like, "Tom, I think you [51:16] really need to think about this because [51:19] you've been spending your whole life [51:20] doing it. Like, don't quit now." You [51:22] know what I mean? Like, there's been a [51:23] lot of that from my dad. And, uh, I [51:26] think a lot of other dads would have [51:27] just been like, "Yeah, you've done [51:28] enough now. You've tried your best. Just [51:30] leave it at that." Whereas, it's always [51:32] been, you know, my dad's always believed [51:34] in me. Uh, and my mom as well, not not [51:36] just my dad. And a lot of close people [51:38] around me as to be honest. I'm very [51:39] lucky in that regard that uh people have [51:42] pushed me to continue which is great. [51:44] When was the first time you quit? I've [51:46] quit quite a lot of times mate to be [51:48] honest. [51:49] A lot of different reasons. Um so many [51:51] of the reasons injuries. Yeah. Tough. [51:54] Very very very tough to deal with [51:55] injuries as a professional athlete. Not [51:57] getting regular fights is also tough. [52:00] See now I'm like was complaining to you [52:02] a minute ago about I've not got a fight [52:05] this that and the other. But I'm going [52:06] to get a fight. the the thirst from the [52:08] fans is there that the UFC want me to [52:10] fight. I've got a belt I got to defend. [52:12] We got to unify this. There's there's [52:14] millions of dollars at stake here. Like [52:15] I'm gonna fight soon. I don't know when [52:17] it's going to be. But at one point, [52:20] nobody cared if I fought or not. And I [52:22] had no money. And that that I think the [52:25] the toughest time for me was so I I had [52:28] my first kid when I was 23. Wife was [52:31] pregnant when she was 22. When we were [52:33] 22 and first kid at 23. [52:36] And then when I was 24, we found out [52:40] that she was pregnant again and which [52:43] I'm very happy about, of course. I don't [52:44] want to seem like it's a negative thing. [52:46] And that we're having twins. [52:49] And [52:51] we had the twins. Everything's great. [52:54] And I had no money. And I mean, I didn't [52:59] have any money at all. And I'm like [53:01] living on this dream of [53:04] me [53:06] becoming this global superstar with [53:08] these millions of pounds in the bank and [53:10] with these titles and travel. I'm living [53:11] on that dream, [53:14] but I'm in Athen Greater Manchester. [53:16] It's raining outside. I can't afford to [53:18] put fuel in my car and I've got three [53:20] kids upstairs crying. Do you know what I [53:23] mean? That that's that's what I was on. [53:25] And I really felt like at the time [53:29] I don't I don't want to say like I'm [53:31] some big masculine guy or anything, but [53:33] I felt a little bit demasculated if [53:36] that's all right. I felt like I'm here [53:39] with this wife and kids and I ain't [53:40] providing nothing like and that was [53:43] really tough for me mentally at that [53:44] time where I'm like how am I going to [53:48] provide for all these people like I got [53:50] to do something else because and I felt [53:52] I don't think that people around me were [53:57] like [53:58] Tom's living in a dream world he needs [54:00] to get a proper job and earn some money [54:02] for his family and kids. I don't think [54:03] people cuz there was a lot of people [54:04] around me who actually believe believed [54:06] in the dream as well which is amazing [54:08] but I felt the pressure I felt like [54:11] people felt like that a little bit even [54:13] if they weren't saying it. So uh that I [54:15] think for me was the the toughest time [54:18] for me I think is when just after I've [54:20] had my kids I'm away training every day. [54:23] I'm I'm barely spending any time at the [54:25] at home. When I am spending time at home [54:27] I'm completely exhausted from training. [54:29] The kids have me up all the time. [54:30] They're crying. My wife's not happy. [54:32] I've got no money. I train all this [54:34] time, go to fight, then it gets canceled [54:37] a week before. Do you know what I mean? [54:38] That was really, really tough to deal [54:40] with at the time. How do you from a [54:42] mental health perspective, how how were [54:45] you during that season of life? Not [54:47] great. Very, very tough. I think [54:51] first of all, [54:53] I mean, everybody's different, but [54:55] having three kids at the age of 25 is [54:58] quite tough. I don't think I was well I [55:01] wouldn't change it for the world. I [55:02] absolutely love being a dad. Love my [55:04] kids to death. They're the most [55:05] important thing in my life. Um I [55:08] wouldn't change it for the world. But I [55:10] think now looking back of me like seven [55:12] years ago having three children. I don't [55:15] know how I did it. It was really really [55:16] tough. Like I think that's really young [55:19] and like I was very underdeveloped [55:21] mentally to have that kind of [55:23] responsibility and raise children and a [55:25] family and a house and have a wife and [55:28] try and get my career off the ground. [55:30] Like it was really really tough at the [55:31] time. So I think I was just in survival [55:33] mode to be honest with you. Actually [55:34] it's funny you should say cuz I've been [55:36] having these conversations recently with [55:37] a couple of friends. He's like my friend [55:41] now is having twins. He's just found [55:43] out. He asked me, "What's it like?" And [55:46] I said, "To be honest with you, and I'm [55:48] going to be really honest because I I [55:49] pride myself as a nice person. It was [55:52] the hardest thing I've ever done. I [55:54] can't even remember the first year. And [55:55] I can't because it was so difficult." [55:58] And it wasn't just the twins. It was [55:59] also [56:02] the money situation, fact is not going [56:04] anywhere, the stress I was under, just [56:07] the trying to be a young guy, but having [56:09] all this responsibility on me. But like [56:11] I said, I absolutely wouldn't change it [56:12] for the world. It's it's literally [56:14] shaped me into the person that I am [56:16] today, and I'm really really proud of [56:17] where I am now. But uh at the time, it [56:19] it was very tough for me mentally. Was [56:22] there was there a hardest moment that [56:24] you reflect on? Cuz sometimes when we [56:26] think back to our lives, we can remember [56:27] like a vivid rock bottom where something [56:29] happened, we went to put petrol in the [56:30] car or and or when we we were alone and [56:34] our mind started saying dark things to [56:36] us. Was there a rock bottom in that [56:38] period of life? [56:41] I don't I I was still like aware of how [56:44] um lucky I was to have like three [56:47] beautiful children and and still be [56:49] chasing the dream that I was on, but I [56:52] think I just hated owing anybody money. [56:55] Like I felt like I just hate going to [56:58] people and asking them for money. Like [57:00] that was like my worst nightmare. And I [57:02] had to lend like borrow a lot of money [57:04] off my dad. uh to borrow some money off [57:06] friends just to put fuel in the car to [57:07] get to the gym to be living in what I [57:10] thought at the time was like a [57:11] makebelieve I I didn't think it was a [57:13] makebelieve dream but I think I feel [57:14] like the people on the outside thought [57:18] what is he doing like what is this guy [57:20] doing like he needs to like look after [57:22] his family like I felt I felt that a lot [57:25] and a lot of that might have just been [57:26] in my own psyche to be honest with you a [57:28] lot of it I don't think came from my [57:30] close circle but I remember like having [57:32] to borrow money from friends to like put [57:35] fuel in my car, buy nappies for my kids [57:38] and stuff like that just so I can like [57:40] keep living on this dream of having a [57:41] fight in 6 weeks, getting 600 quid and [57:44] being able to give him 20 quid back. [57:46] Like that was it's to it was tough. Does [57:48] that not put a lot of pressure on the [57:49] relationship? Cuz I mean, bloody hell, [57:51] relationships are hard enough without [57:54] twins, another child, um, and everything [57:57] else that makes life in relationships [57:59] difficult. So, it's quite remarkable [58:01] that, you know, being in a relationship [58:03] is not easy in in any in any [58:07] in any in any regard. Being in a [58:09] relationship and sharing your life with [58:10] somebody isn't easy. Um, [58:13] yeah, it did. It did. But, you know [58:15] what? We got through it and we're really [58:16] strong and I'm really uh happy with the [58:19] family unit that we've built. I try and [58:21] be the best dad that I can be. Like, [58:23] that's more important than anything else [58:24] to me. Um, is just spending time and [58:26] making my kids um as good as I can. And [58:29] I'm aware that as a dad and as a parent, [58:31] you can't [58:33] control as such what your kids, you [58:35] can't mold a kid into what you want it [58:38] to be. You can't say like cuz I got [58:41] three kids and they're all completely [58:42] different. They're all brought up [58:43] exactly the same, but they're all [58:44] completely different. And you can never [58:45] say this is what my kid's going to be [58:48] and this is who he's going to be and how [58:49] he's going to be. But just to be able to [58:52] hopefully bring some kind of positive [58:54] outlook on their life and and hopefully [58:56] give them a positive experience on this [58:58] earth is uh what I'm looking to do. Your [59:01] your partner, you're married to Justina. [59:03] Yeah. Did she understand? Oh, she [59:04] understands more than anybody. Yeah. [59:06] Absolutely. Yeah. If it wasn't for her, [59:08] my dad, my mom, couple of friends [59:11] around, I would have been Yeah. I would [59:13] have been a mess. Absolute mess. Yeah. [59:15] She was very understanding because I [59:17] know that most women [59:20] they would have been putting the [59:21] pressure on big time. Yeah, she was it's [59:23] because when we met I've been with her [59:24] since I was 19. She was 19 also were the [59:26] same age. Um that was my dream from the [59:29] beginning. So she like got on board with [59:31] that. Um and she's kept me she's stopped [59:34] me from quitting a lot of times as well. [59:36] She stopped me from quitting so many [59:37] times. Yeah. is this sport's tough and [59:39] like I said there's no so in football [59:42] for example I know a little bit about [59:43] football [59:45] you start from a grassroots team as a [59:47] kid then you go to an academy and then [59:48] you can get signed at the age of like 12 [59:50] 13 and start playing for the under 13s [59:53] and professional club and there's a [59:54] place where you can go and obviously [59:56] football's a tough game they can cut you [59:57] off like that as well but at least [60:00] there's a career path of what you're [60:01] going to do and where you're going to go [60:02] whereas MMA you're basically shooting in [60:04] the dark for 95% of it Um, and I'm very [60:08] lucky to have people like my wife, my [60:11] family, my uh mom and dad, and the [60:13] people around me who believe in me as [60:14] well. Yeah, it's I mean, we started [60:16] talking about this because of that that [60:17] kind of graph of your career where it's [60:19] kind of flat relative to what then [60:23] happened and then quick all of a sudden. [60:25] And even when you think about the [60:26] financials, it's like very very little. [60:28] And then if you get all the right forces [60:31] behind you in terms of like personality [60:33] and timing and then someone drops out [60:35] here, you get the interim shot, you win, [60:38] then things take off. And that is it's [60:39] also remarkable to me that it's happened [60:40] in such a short period of time. Um [60:43] relative to how long you've been doing [60:45] this because yeah, when I looked down [60:46] and I saw that this was 2023. Yes. But [60:48] you got that shot, you're kind of a new [60:51] face on the scene to some degree [60:52] relative to some of some of these other [60:53] guys. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I [60:55] think the new generation is definitely [60:57] coming in now in in uh like the old [61:00] guard, the old champions are kind of [61:01] they're at the back end of the career [61:02] and now it's time for um new guys which [61:06] is that's progression. That's that's [61:07] great. Quick one. I want to talk about [61:09] something we all need to take seriously [61:11] which is cyber security. Whether you're [61:13] a first-time founder facing your very [61:15] first audit or a seasoned professional [61:17] who's been through it all, staying [61:18] compliant is getting more critical than [61:20] ever and more complicated I have to say. [61:22] And that is where Vanta comes in, who is [61:24] a sponsor of this podcast. Vanta takes [61:26] the pain out of security compliance, [61:28] automating the tedious but essential [61:30] process of proving your business is [61:32] secure across over 35 frameworks like [61:34] SOCK 2, ISO 2701. [61:38] Centralize your workflows, answer [61:40] security questions up to five times [61:41] faster, and protect your business [61:43] without losing focus on growth. And this [61:45] is really a critical part of this. A new [61:48] IDC white paper found that companies [61:50] using Vant save over $535,000 [61:54] a year and it pays for itself in just 3 [61:57] months. For a limited time, my community [61:59] gets $1,000 off Vanta at [62:00] vanta.com/stephven. [62:02] That's van.com/stephven [62:05] for $1,000 off. [62:08] So Tom, there's this black box in front [62:09] of me which um contains something which [62:12] represents a pivotal moment in your [62:13] career. What is in the box? We remove [62:17] the belt. I mean, it's not I'll be [62:18] honest, mate. It's not that exciting. [62:20] Interesting. It probably stinks as well. [62:21] You probably smell it from over there. [62:22] I'm okay. It's clean. It's clean, [62:24] actually. It's not too bad. This is a [62:27] This is a knee pad. Okay. I [62:32] What is the story behind the knee pad? [62:34] Why did you bring that? So, [62:38] first of all, I've had a knee problem [62:39] for a long time. I started the knee [62:42] problem when we were talking about the [62:43] things that we've just been talking [62:44] about, the financial struggles, and I [62:46] knew that I was never kind of like one, [62:49] two fights away from getting to the UFC. [62:53] So, I wanted to train through the knee [62:55] problems. Then I got to the UFC. [62:58] I'm training. I I fight, I win. Oh, my [63:01] knees knees all right. I'm doing like [63:03] I'm doing pretty well here. like I can [63:04] fight with one knee, fight again, I win. [63:06] Then I get a new contract and then I [63:10] fight, they offer me another fight. I [63:11] don't want to say no to the UFC. I'm on [63:13] this roll. I've still got this bad knee. [63:14] I'm training with one leg. And you're [63:16] training with one leg? Yeah, I train [63:17] with one leg for a long time. Yeah, [63:18] pretty much. I never kicked with the [63:20] leg. I never went on the knee ever or [63:22] anything like that. Anyway, this kept [63:24] going and going. I was fighting with one [63:26] leg. [63:28] Then the most devastating thing that [63:31] happened in my whole career was my knee [63:35] just give out in front of 25,000 [63:38] home fans in the Ult arena in London [63:42] in what was a title eliminator fight. So [63:45] if either of us would have won that [63:47] fight, we would have got a title shot [63:49] next. So it's a massive fight with with [63:50] title implications. [63:53] And not only did I lose the fight [63:56] because of the injury, uh losing the [63:59] fight is one thing. Like if I go in [64:00] there, I have a good fight, I I show off [64:03] all my training, but I get knocked out, [64:05] for example. Like even though I'm going [64:06] to be sad that I've lost the fight, I am [64:08] relatively satisfied that I went in [64:10] there, [64:12] I had a go, came up short. Like I I can [64:15] live with that. [64:17] Whereas with the knee, I went in there, [64:22] got injured straight away. The knee was [64:25] down. I couldn't walk. I had surgery and [64:29] then I was unsure whether my career was [64:32] going to be over or not. And that was a [64:33] massive massive turning point in um in [64:37] my life. Not just in my career, but in [64:39] my life. um that really really gave me a [64:41] chance to think and slow down and figure [64:44] out what's important and what isn't. And [64:47] uh that all came because of one of the [64:50] biggest worst thing that's happened in [64:52] my life, but one of the most important [64:54] things as well. And one of the I got the [64:55] most growth from that knee injury than [64:57] I've got from anything else in my life, [64:59] I think. What kind of growth emerged [65:01] from that? At the time, I was doing a [65:03] lot of things wrong in my personal life [65:06] and in my professional life. like I had [65:08] a lot of people around me that shouldn't [65:10] have been there. I was doing some [65:11] training sessions and training with [65:14] people that I shouldn't have really been [65:15] training with. Um [65:18] I wasn't living a good lifestyle in [65:20] terms of diet and my recovery. I wasn't [65:23] 100% focused and I should have been but [65:25] because everything was going so well and [65:27] I'm a little bit [65:30] uh what's like superstitious. I didn't [65:32] want to change anything because I'm like [65:34] well it's going well. I don't want to [65:35] start changing it. And I knew that there [65:37] was a lot of things wrong. I knew that [65:38] there were people that I shouldn't have [65:39] been surrounding myself with. I knew [65:41] that there were training sessions that [65:43] were just wasting my time really. And [65:45] there were um toxic people around me [65:48] that shouldn't have been there. And and [65:49] I need they needed to go, but I didn't [65:51] want to change everything because it was [65:54] all going so well. And when when you [65:57] talk about like a rock bottom moment, [66:00] when you sat on the floor of the UFC [66:03] octagon in the old arena with your leg [66:05] up in the air and there's 25,000 people [66:10] who are there for you um start leaving [66:13] the building, it's a bad feeling. It's a [66:16] really bad feeling. So that really rate [66:19] made me like reassess um some of the the [66:22] decisions I was making at the time. and [66:24] the Tom Aspenol before and after that [66:26] moment completely different people. I [66:28] feel like I completely rebuilt myself, [66:31] not only physically cuz I think you can [66:33] look you can look at me physically in [66:36] fights before and see a physical change [66:38] just in terms of my physique and the way [66:40] I'm moving around. Obviously I had one [66:42] leg before and I've got two legs now [66:44] which is way better. But mentally the [66:46] growth has been enormous is that I [66:49] completely cut out anything negative [66:52] that was in my life. Anything that [66:53] wasn't anything or anyone that wasn't [66:56] serving me to become like run parallel [66:59] with my journey to becoming the best [67:00] heavyweight in the world I completely [67:02] cut off and because because I was so [67:06] superstitious I think. But but why [67:09] why did you why was it so important for [67:12] you to remove those people at that [67:14] particular moment? As an athlete, I [67:18] needed to and not only as an athlete, as [67:20] as a as a man, I needed to really slow [67:24] down cuz I was on this like fast track. [67:27] It's like I got in the UFC and it was [67:28] just like fight fight fight and every [67:30] time it's like more and more popular, [67:32] more interviews, more media, more fame, [67:34] more money, more this that and and I [67:36] didn't really have time to like assess [67:39] really what was around me and I didn't [67:41] have time to like start cutting people [67:43] off and start changing this and tweaking [67:45] this and doing I just didn't see it [67:47] because I was on this like I was just [67:50] going and going and going and when I had [67:52] that and next minute I'm sat on the [67:54] couch for six months with this big cut [67:56] on my I can't walk. I'm doing physio and [67:59] doing all the rest of it. And um yeah, I [68:02] just feel like as an athlete and a man, [68:04] I really had that time to slow down and [68:07] and really assess my life and be like, [68:09] "This isn't working. It needs to [68:11] change." That was actually the closest [68:13] point where I was pretty close to [68:16] throwing in the towel then to be honest [68:17] on my career because [68:20] at that point I'd not made like mega [68:23] money or anything but I'd made enough [68:25] money to like be comfortable and [68:29] I bought a house at that time. I'd made [68:31] some decent money, but nothing like [68:32] life-changing. But I'd made enough money [68:34] to then, [68:36] I don't know, be living my life to an [68:39] all right, you know, standard for [68:41] however long. Um, I was like, well, I'm [68:44] financially comfortable now. I've had [68:45] some fights in the UFC. I've had some [68:47] success. I was I think I was just [68:48] outside the top five at that time or [68:50] something, maybe top 10. You know, I've [68:53] gone way further than a lot of people [68:54] have done. Maybe I'll just like leave it [68:56] there. Was there an element of you that [68:58] wondered if the public would ever want [69:01] to see you again? Oh, of course. Yeah. [69:03] Yeah. Of course. Yeah, definitely. [69:05] Because I didn't have an actual fight. I [69:07] felt like people thought I faked the [69:09] injury or something. So, I think like a [69:11] lot of people thought, yeah, he didn't [69:13] he didn't really want to be in there [69:14] with that opponent. I felt because [69:17] especially my opponent at the time, [69:18] Curtis Blaze, he was like running [69:19] through everybody. Um, and I felt like a [69:22] lot of people were like Tom just didn't [69:25] want to fight. So I felt like very [69:27] insecure about myself at the time and I [69:29] really like when I came back I really [69:32] had like a chip on my shoulder and I [69:33] still got it that like I want to I want [69:35] to prove to everybody that like I'm the [69:37] best heavyweight in the world. You got [69:39] six months on the sofa. Did you read [69:41] things people are saying? I tried not to [69:43] but I always do. [69:45] I try not to but um yeah but I think I [69:50] think it's quite healthy in a way though [69:51] as well. I think it that fueled me a lot [69:54] as well is that people started quitting [69:56] on me and stuff and a lot of people even [69:59] like people were like yeah you know you [70:00] got a lot of ways to make money now like [70:02] you've already done loads of media you [70:04] know you're good you're good on the mic [70:05] and stuff you can maybe be a pundit and [70:07] stuff like that for a time I was like [70:09] yeah maybe I can maybe I can just like [70:12] you know be a pundit and you know I've [70:14] been in there I've main evented a couple [70:16] of times and stuff I've been fought [70:17] almost the elite level yeah maybe I [70:20] maybe I can just do that but And I [70:22] started reading these negative comments [70:24] and I was like actually I want to fight [70:27] like what what is this? Well, like where [70:29] am I going? I'm letting these regular [70:31] people like speak like talk to me and [70:34] and put regular thoughts in my mind and [70:37] I'm not a regular person. So, I'm I'm an [70:40] elite special athlete and I always have [70:44] that belief in myself that I'm not [70:46] regular and I don't want to be regular [70:48] and I can't let regular people tell me [70:50] how to uh how to function. And I was [70:54] almost at the point where I were I was [70:56] letting regular people tell me how to [70:57] function. And the the the kind of like [71:00] online haters spurred me to be like, [71:04] nah, I've got to I've got to come back [71:07] and win this sit. there's no chance this [71:08] is going to be the end of me. Did it [71:10] knock your confidence at all even though [71:12] even though the nature of the loss and [71:14] it's your first and only loss in the UFC [71:16] and you went on to beat this guy in a [71:19] rematch. Um did it knock your confidence [71:21] at all even though it was via injury? [71:24] Yeah. No. No. Because I was really [71:26] particular that [71:28] so there was two things that I really [71:30] wanted to do after the fight. So I lost [71:33] to a guy called uh Curtis Blades. That's [71:35] when I injured my knee in 15 seconds. In [71:37] 15 seconds. Yeah. Right at the beginning [71:38] of the fight. So I wanted to fight [71:42] Curtis again. That that was really [71:43] important to me is that I fight him [71:45] again because [71:46] I can't function as a human being [71:50] knowing that I trained for a fight and [71:52] didn't actually fight somebody. If I [71:54] would have lost, at least I can like [71:56] look myself in the mirror and be like, I [71:58] tried my best. That's all I can do. But [72:02] I I seriously had unfinished business. [72:04] And the other thing was that the injury [72:06] happened at the Alter Arena, [72:09] which from anyone from the UK knows that [72:12] that is like a prestigious ar like if [72:15] you're if you're a UFC fighter and [72:17] you're English, you want to fight at the [72:18] O2, especially headline the O2. That's [72:21] unbelievable experience. And I couldn't [72:24] then never fight at the O2 Arena again. [72:27] I had to fight at the O2. like they were [72:29] the two things I wanted to fight Blades [72:31] again and I wanted to fight at the O2 [72:33] just so I can like mentally just tick [72:36] them two things off and then move [72:38] forward and uh I did both of them and I [72:40] won both fights so happy with that. John [72:43] Jones. Yeah. [72:46] How do you feel about him? I'm sick of [72:47] talking about him. I bet you are. Yeah. [72:49] Because that's what people want to talk [72:50] about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean a lot of [72:52] people now they think like all Tom does [72:54] is talk about John and [72:57] it's not the case. I don't want to talk [72:59] about John, but that's all people ask me [73:01] about. Do you know what I mean? [73:02] Everybody, like I said before, it's what [73:04] it's probably one of the most [73:06] anticipated fights in UFC history, me [73:08] and Jon Jones. So, obviously that's the [73:11] subject that people want to talk about. [73:13] That's what people are interested in. [73:14] So, um [73:17] John is an absolute legend of the sport [73:19] to answer the way I feel about him [73:22] personally is quite relevant. the the [73:24] stuff that he's done in the UFC, he will [73:26] be absolutely immortal forever. He will [73:28] always be known as one of the best ever [73:31] and I really um as a mixed martial arts [73:35] fan really really respect what he's done [73:38] in the sport. Are you fearful of [73:40] fighting him? Oh, absolutely. [73:42] Absolutely. I mean, I'd be an idiot [73:44] otherwise. Like, he's the best um one of [73:47] the best to ever put a pair of UFC [73:50] gloves on. And I think, like I say, [73:52] regardless [73:54] of what he's done outside the octagon, [73:58] and for anyone watching who doesn't [74:01] know, I am referring to these legal [74:03] issues that he's got. And that's not [74:05] that's nothing to do with me. I I have [74:06] no idea about any of that. I don't know [74:08] him personally. Um [74:11] I think inside the octagon, he is 100% [74:14] one of the best people to ever do it. [74:17] What do you admire about John Jones in [74:19] terms of his fighting style? He's [74:22] extremely smart. Extremely smart. The [74:25] way he [74:27] goes about his business in the octagon, [74:30] but also [74:32] his uh business outside the octagon and [74:36] the matchups that he's chose for [74:37] himself. Uh very smart. Very, very [74:40] smart. the way that he's chose [74:43] guys who he matches up stylistically [74:46] really well with or who are well past [74:50] the prime. I think it's genius. I think [74:52] it's absolute genius. Are you saying [74:53] that he's avoided people that would [74:55] might have beat him? I'm not saying [74:57] that. I'm saying that he's he's chose [75:00] very well. He's chose very very wisely [75:03] the right opponents at the right time, [75:05] which is super smart. [75:09] So to answer your question, yeah, I [75:10] probably am saying that I'm saying that. [75:13] So what about his you admire that his [75:16] his sort of fighting IQ? Yeah, he's so [75:19] one of the smartest fighters to ever [75:20] fight in in Yeah. Explain that to me. [75:22] Like I'm a muggle, so I don't Okay. Um [75:26] he [75:29] will he has a certain way of making [75:33] fighters fight his style, if that makes [75:36] sense. So he will constantly keep his [75:39] opponent guessing [75:42] with kind of like [75:44] different things that like he will [75:46] always have a style that suits him [75:49] really well and he will force his [75:52] opponent to fight that way if that makes [75:54] sense. It does like I guess it's kind of [75:56] difficult if you're uneducated on it but [75:58] he has his style and he will never come [76:03] out of that and risk fighting somebody [76:04] else's style ever. He will constantly [76:07] force elite guys to fight his style [76:10] which is really really difficult to do [76:11] in in a technical perspective. Kind of [76:14] saw that against uh Stipe I thought [76:16] because yeah but Stipe is also 42 years [76:18] old with a million miles on the clock. [76:19] You have to remember that. But you are [76:21] right. You're definitely right. But uh [76:23] from seeing it up close cuz I was sat [76:26] really like I was almost in touching [76:27] distance at the octagon. Stipe was more [76:30] than offbeat in that fight in terms of [76:34] how how far he is away from his prime. [76:37] What is it? What is what is it that Jon [76:39] Jones is doing there? Because you see [76:40] these great athletes who have their own [76:42] really clearly defined style. Then you [76:44] see them get in the ring with Jon Jones [76:46] and suddenly their like their style [76:49] seems to have vanished or they're scared [76:52] or or he's doing something to keep them [76:56] out like on the back foot in outside of [76:58] their zone of comfort so they can never [77:00] really get into the rhythm so they play [77:01] his game. Yeah. What is it he's doing [77:03] there? Like is it Well, first of all, he [77:05] Jon Jones is a light heavyweight. Yeah. [77:07] So he's now moved up to heavy. He's had [77:08] two fighters heavyweight but [77:09] traditionally he's a light heavyweight. [77:10] for a light heavyweight is extremely [77:12] long in terms of wingspan and and leg [77:15] length [77:16] and when you're that much taller and [77:19] this is not I'm not saying anything [77:21] about but most of the guys he's fought [77:24] are from middleweight coming up so he's [77:27] generally the taller guy and keeps [77:30] people at the end of his reach so well [77:32] like his distant distance distance [77:33] management is one of the best ever he [77:36] does that really well and then when he's [77:38] moved up to heavyweight he's fought a [77:39] guy in Surrogan who, no disrespect to [77:42] him, doesn't have a ground game. Yeah, [77:44] John Jones, one of the best wrestlers [77:46] ever in in MMA and a 42-y old Stipe. So, [77:50] he's chose really really well what he [77:52] does. But he just uses his distance [77:55] management and his timing is incredible. [77:58] like the way he uses the attributes that [78:01] he's got is honestly like from from [78:05] somebody who's studied martial arts from [78:07] like I said eight years old. It's like [78:10] it's it's almost like beautiful for me [78:13] to watch the way he expresses [78:16] different techniques under that much [78:19] pressure against a league competition. [78:20] It's amazing to watch. He's got an [78:22] incredible set of skills in that regard [78:24] because he can kick, he can punch, he [78:26] can grapple, he can wrestle. I think in [78:29] today's mixed martial arts, everybody [78:33] has to do all that. Arguably, everybody [78:35] has to be almost elite in everything. [78:38] The thing that he does really well is he [78:40] does everything on his terms inside the [78:43] octagon. Like everybody can do all all [78:46] the stuff that you just listed. Punch, [78:47] kick, elbow, knee, wrestle, grapple, [78:49] choke, arm bar, whatever. [78:51] But he does it all on his terms. And [78:54] that is something that is the elite of [78:56] the elite. And like I say, all of us, [78:59] all of us. And when I say us, I'm [79:01] talking about the professional MMA [79:02] fighter who's had one fight to Jon [79:05] Jones. All of us. Everything in between [79:07] that can do everything really well. You [79:10] have to be able to to be able to swim. [79:13] But he just does it on his terms when [79:15] his opponent is not expecting it. And [79:17] that is unbelievable. So, you must be [79:20] thinking about how you stop that. Oh, [79:23] absolutely, absolutely. It's difficult [79:26] because I don't want to over obsess [79:27] about it because there's no contract [79:28] with my name and his name signed. Yeah. [79:30] But in the back of my mind when I'm [79:32] training, of course, I'm thinking about [79:33] that kind of stuff. But I think what I [79:35] bring to the table is I'm way bigger [79:36] than anyone he's ever fought. [79:39] I'm close to my prime. I don't think [79:41] I've reached it quite yet. I think I've [79:42] still got maybe a year or so before I [79:44] get there. [79:46] And I think I'm just really I I don't [79:50] want to say I'm athletically gifted [79:51] because I'm def I've definitely put a [79:53] lot of work into it, but I think when it [79:56] comes to um athleticism for a big guy, I [79:59] think I'm like I I don't want to sound [80:02] like I'm blowing my own trumpet, but I'm [80:03] just being real. I think that I'm like [80:05] head and shoulders above any other [80:06] heavyweight. And my not only that my [80:09] decision- making I think that's the [80:12] difference is like a lot of people like [80:13] any heavyweight put a pair of gloves on [80:15] them they can knock anybody out that [80:16] goes without saying we're massive guys [80:18] but my decision making [80:21] is elite like elite elite the best some [80:24] of the best in MMA and I hate to sit [80:26] here with a load of cameras around me [80:28] and look you in the face and tell you [80:29] that but it's the honest truth I believe [80:30] that I'm also almost in my prime I'm [80:34] hungry and I bring all these physical [80:36] and technical astron attribute to the [80:38] table which somebody like for example [80:40] Steepoic who's 11 12 years older than me [80:44] and a million miles on the clock doesn't [80:46] bring. So when people see your fighting [80:47] style and they hear that you've got the [80:48] world record for the lowest average time [80:52] to end fights something just over two [80:54] minutes on average your fights last [80:56] before you knock the guy out. They're [80:58] going to be thinking right. So Tom's [80:59] strategy here is he's going to storm uh [81:02] Jon Jones and throw that that hand and [81:04] knock him out. And Jon Jones is going to [81:06] be thinking the same. John Jones is [81:07] going to be like, "Right, he's going to [81:08] try and finish me quick. That's his [81:09] game. There's literally a world record [81:11] that says that's his game." Yeah, I love [81:13] that. Like, if people think that's all I [81:16] bring to the table. [81:18] Like, I like [81:20] being a bit of a mystery. I absolutely [81:22] love that. Like, there's so much of my [81:25] game that I've not had the opportunity [81:26] to show yet. And I I absolutely love it, [81:30] you know, when people like critique the [81:31] fact that I've not been into the later [81:34] rounds or maybe I've not got the [81:36] conditioning that other guys have got or [81:39] look, that's not my problem. That's the [81:41] problem of my of my opponents. They [81:43] can't deal with what I'm throwing. I [81:44] never ever go out there to finish the [81:46] fight quick. It just happens. And that [81:49] isn't actually an issue for me. That's [81:50] the issue for the guy standing across [81:52] the octagon from me because [81:55] I have never been in a fight where I'm [81:58] trying to finish really. I'm just trying [81:59] to go out there, do my thing, see what [82:01] comes and see what's what. Like and the [82:04] fact that people are doubting what I can [82:05] do and just because they don't know [82:08] because they're not seeing it with their [82:08] own eyes. They think I can't do it, [82:10] which to me is a humongous advantage. [82:14] Humongous advantage. Like John Jones for [82:16] example is known [82:19] for his [82:21] film study. Like he loves watching his [82:24] opponent and seeing how they move, [82:26] seeing the patterns that they bring up. [82:27] And like good luck with doing that with [82:30] me, mate, because the footage isn't out [82:32] there. And I think that's also part of [82:34] the reason why he's not quick to sign [82:35] any contracts or to agree on anything. [82:37] Yeah, the money's a factor, of course. [82:39] Yeah, he's right at the end of his [82:40] career and he he might want to retire. I [82:41] don't know. I don't know how John's mind [82:43] works, but definitely somewhere it's an [82:45] insecurity of his that there isn't any [82:47] footage out there of me that you can [82:48] watch for longer than 3 or 4 minutes. [82:51] And that is just a humongous advantage [82:53] for me. Massive. Because you finished [82:56] the fight so quick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [82:58] There's so much of my game that I've not [83:01] even been close to showing. And [83:05] I I'm very excited to surprise some of [83:07] these guys when I when I do show it. I [83:09] can't imagine how many times you must [83:11] have played over in your head. You were [83:12] talking about drilling earlier [83:15] that fight. Yeah. [83:17] Talk to me about that. Yeah, I've [83:20] definitely replay like played it a lot. [83:22] Um, but I do that with all opponents [83:24] even even guys in the in the division [83:26] right now who have not got any pro [83:28] prospects of fighting at the moment. I [83:30] think about that a lot. Like I think [83:32] about how I match up physically and [83:34] mentally with them. So So if you're [83:35] playing that over in your head, run me [83:37] through the tape. You're playing Well, [83:39] that's top secret. Is that really the [83:41] case that there's a particular [83:44] strategy that you're replaying in your [83:46] head over and over again? Absolutely. [83:48] But there's there's one thing that I [83:51] know for sure. This this is nailed on [83:54] guaranteed. And this goes for any human [83:56] being in the world. And this has been [83:58] proved time and time again. Even though [84:00] sometimes I don't believe that it can [84:02] happen, but now I know if I [84:06] punch a human being in the face as hard [84:08] as I can and it lands, they will be [84:11] unconscious. I know it because it's been [84:13] proved at the elite level multiple [84:16] times. So, I need one and that's it. [84:19] Well, I wanted to test that. So, we've [84:21] got Jack here who is [84:26] I won't punch you, Jack. Yeah. Just not [84:28] not today. [84:31] Have you had your punch power tested? [84:33] Yeah, I I have had it tested. Um, there [84:36] are guys that are have more punch power [84:38] than me on the machine. Mhm. And [84:41] probably in real life as well. What? [84:42] Whatever. But I think see I don't want [84:45] to tell you because I don't want people [84:46] to watch it and and know my secrets. But [84:49] I punch people when they're not [84:51] expecting it and they're the one they're [84:52] the ones that hurt. And I disguise it in [84:55] a certain way. [84:57] You know, I do bits on my YouTube [84:58] channel and stuff about me explaining [85:00] techniques and and doing different [85:02] things and now I've got something called [85:05] a school platform which I know you had [85:07] Alex Hormosi on the channel as well who [85:09] who has shares in school and I show [85:11] different techniques and stuff like that [85:12] but I'll never show my game if that [85:15] makes sense. I'll show a generalization [85:18] of what to do and strategy and what to [85:20] focus on and not. But my personal game [85:22] or what I do for my style, I'll never [85:24] show it because that's something for [85:26] only me and my coaches to know. And when [85:28] you think about your routine for those [85:29] six weeks, yeah, what advice can you [85:31] give to like an average person about the [85:35] health routine that you go through to [85:37] get into elite elite shape? What other [85:38] tips and tricks you've learned that you [85:40] could impart on me as someone that's not [85:41] necessarily a fighter, but Well, [85:42] something that I'm learning as I'm [85:43] getting a little bit older, and I'm not [85:45] saying I'm old by any chance, by any [85:46] stretch of the imagination, but as I'm [85:48] getting older and I'm getting more I've [85:50] been training a long time, even though [85:51] I'm not um up there in age, but I can [85:55] definitely [85:57] feel more on my body than I used to, [85:59] especially being a bigger guy. Um, [86:01] generally we carry more injuries. But I [86:05] think that if you're training, for [86:08] example, 4 hours a day, [86:10] what I found is doing at least half of [86:12] that time recovering [86:14] is what I'm aiming to do. So, however [86:17] the recovery looks to you, whether [86:19] that's stretching, breathing exercises, [86:22] sauna, swimming, steam room, jacuzzi, [86:26] you know, there's there's a whole you [86:27] Google recovery from exercise. There'll [86:29] be a million things that you can do, but [86:31] I like to try and do 50% of my training. [86:35] The easiest way I can say is if I'm [86:36] training for four hours, I try and do [86:38] two hours worth of recovery. Um, and I [86:40] think that has helped me a lot. Not to [86:42] mention, massively, massively [86:44] underrated. And as a heavyweight, I can [86:46] kind of eat what I want really if I want [86:47] to like Well, I don't have uh the [86:50] smaller weights, they all have to be [86:52] under a certain weight. So, weight [86:53] cutting is like a big thing in MMA. [86:55] People, they do extreme diets and then [86:57] cut a lot of water out the last week and [86:59] try and get, you know, squeeze as much [87:01] as they can to get under this weight [87:03] division. They weigh in, then they put [87:05] the weight back on. I just have to be [87:07] over 93 kilos and I do that no problem. [87:10] But, but doesn't your nutrition have an [87:11] impact on your performance? Of course. [87:13] Of course. So that's that's kind of what [87:14] I'm getting to is like it is so [87:16] important what you put in your body. [87:18] Like I didn't realize that until I was [87:21] maybe 28 years old, 27, 28 years old. Um [87:26] and it needs to be monitored. Like [87:30] again going back to writing stuff down [87:32] like write down what you eat in a day [87:36] and eliminate one thing for the next day [87:38] and write how you feel. Like that's what [87:40] I did a lot is like and now I'm at the [87:42] point where like I will eat similar [87:44] things at similar times every day [87:47] because I know how my body functions on [87:48] that and I know that if I'm doing an [87:51] intense session there I need a little [87:52] bit more carbs before and after and what [87:55] kind of carbs is something that I've [87:56] worked out to how I feel before and [87:58] after. And again it's just a lot of [88:01] every person's body is different. So, I [88:03] would never like to sit here and I'm not [88:04] a nutrition expert and and start going [88:07] on about what people need to eat because [88:09] that's not my expertise. But I know from [88:12] a personal point of view that writing [88:14] things down and experimenting, taking [88:16] this out and adding this in and then [88:17] writing notes on how you feel and doing [88:19] that every day has been massive for me. [88:22] What about sleep? You mentioned sleep [88:24] early on. I do like to sleep a lot. I'm [88:27] just a big napper. Like if I if I train [88:29] in the morning, I'm going to sleep [88:30] straight after. And that takes a lot of [88:33] discipline, you know? Like it takes a [88:35] lot of discipline for me to be like, I'm [88:38] coming home from training. I'm going to [88:39] shower, eat, and sleep, and nothing's [88:42] coming in the way of that. Like it takes [88:44] so especially like with kids. Like if [88:46] I'm coming home and if I've done a [88:48] two-hour session in the morning, I'm [88:50] coming home, the kids are excited to see [88:52] me. This guy's wants to play on the [88:54] Xbox, the other one wants to play [88:55] outside, this one wants a snack, and [88:57] that one wants to play outside. And then [88:59] it's just madness. And then one of them [89:01] spilled a drink. You got to clean this [89:02] up. And then one wants this on the TV. [89:04] It's just a constant thing for me to [89:06] then walk in and be like, I'm going to [89:09] bed. I'll be up in an hour and a half. [89:12] You know what I mean? Like that's that's [89:13] discipline as well. That's But all these [89:16] little increments, they just pay off [89:18] massively. Because I talked about [89:20] ketosis on this podcast and ketones, a [89:22] brand called Ketone IQ sent me their [89:25] little product here and it was on my [89:26] desk when I got to the office. I picked [89:28] it up. It sat on my desk for a couple of [89:29] weeks. Then one day I tried it and [89:33] honestly I have not looked back ever [89:35] since. I now have this everywhere I go. [89:38] When I travel all around the world, it's [89:39] in my hotel room. My team will put it [89:41] there. Before I did the podcast [89:42] recording today that I've just finished, [89:44] I had a shot of Ketone IQ. And as is [89:47] always the case when I fall in love with [89:48] a product, I called the CEO and asked if [89:50] I could invest a couple of million quid [89:51] into their company. So, I'm now an [89:53] investor in the company as well as them [89:55] being a brand sponsor. I find it so easy [89:57] to drop into deep focused work when I've [90:00] had one of these. I would love you to [90:01] try one and see the impact it has on [90:03] you, your focus, your productivity, and [90:05] your endurance. So, if you want to try [90:06] it today, visit ketone.com/stephven for [90:09] 30% off your subscription. Plus, you'll [90:11] receive a free gift with your second [90:13] shipment. That's ketone.com/stephven. [90:17] I'm excited for you. I am. The hardest [90:20] conversations are often the ones we [90:22] avoid. But what if you had the right [90:24] question to start them with? Every [90:26] single guest on the diary of a co has [90:27] left behind a question in this diary. [90:31] And it's a question designed to [90:32] challenge, to connect, and to go deeper [90:34] with the next guest. And these are all [90:36] the questions that I have here in my [90:38] hand. On one side, you've got the [90:40] question that was asked, the name of the [90:42] person who wrote it, and on the other [90:44] side, if you scan that, you can watch [90:46] the person who came after who answered [90:49] it. 51 questions split across three [90:51] different levels. The warm-up level, the [90:53] open up level, and the deep level. So, [90:55] you decide how deep the conversation [90:57] goes. And people play these conversation [90:59] cards in boardrooms at work, in [91:01] bedrooms, alone at night, and on first [91:04] dates, and everywhere in between. I'll [91:06] put a link to the conversation cards in [91:07] the description below and you can get [91:09] yours at the diary.com. [91:12] You mentioned a term earlier on that we [91:14] didn't go into, which was hypnotherapy. [91:17] Yes. For someone that doesn't know what [91:19] hypnotherapy is. Can you give me like a [91:21] broad idea of what it is and how the [91:23] role that it's played in your life and [91:26] any evidence you might have seen that it [91:27] actually works? Yeah. So, I'm going like [91:29] quite hard on the hypnotherapy now. I [91:31] actually spoke to my hypnotherapist [91:33] yesterday. I'm going to start doing uh [91:35] twice a week now. [91:38] Um [91:40] a few different reasons really, both [91:41] personal and professional. I had a [91:44] situation recently uh with my kid where [91:47] uh my kid was in hospital and it really [91:50] kicked off my anxiety massively and [91:52] since then I'm struggling to relax a [91:54] little bit more than than I would [91:55] usually struggling to switch off. So, I [91:57] think that for me personally, again, I [92:00] don't want to sit here and preach about [92:01] hypnotherapy cuz it's not my expertise [92:03] at all, but for me personally, it brings [92:05] my anxiety down a lot. So, it helps with [92:08] that. Um, it also helps with sleep. It [92:11] also helps with just being just in a [92:14] more tranquil place in general. And [92:20] when you [92:22] add that those qualities into what can [92:26] be a very anxietyfilled anxietyfilled [92:29] sport, I think that's just a massive [92:32] advantage. Not to mention the other [92:33] stuff that we talked about like life and [92:35] and just general stressiness as well. [92:38] For someone that doesn't know anything [92:39] about the hypnotherapy that you do, they [92:41] might think that it's like, you know, in [92:42] back in the day it was like swinging the [92:44] thing in front of your face and then you [92:46] fall asleep and they tell you you're a [92:47] dog and you bark and stuff. used to be [92:48] on TV when I was younger. But but it's [92:51] not that, is it? It's What is it? Again, [92:54] people are going to start thinking it's [92:55] like some like like you say some woo woo [92:57] thing where you start like going [92:58] unconscious and doing all it's nothing [93:00] like that. It's like [93:03] essentially you're just in a room the [93:05] way that I do it at least. I'm in a room [93:07] with a guy talking to me. I'm completely [93:09] relaxed. Lay down or sat up, doesn't [93:11] matter. Usually with my eyes closed. And [93:13] usually he'll take you through a story [93:15] of like you go into a place, you're [93:16] walking down a street or what he'll set [93:18] the scene kind of thing. And I used to [93:20] think I need to listen and focus in on [93:23] every word he's saying. Like I need to [93:25] put myself exactly where, you know, [93:28] follow the story, quote unquote story [93:31] exactly as he's telling me to follow it. [93:33] Mhm. And I actually spoke to him about [93:36] it and I was like, I'm struggling to [93:39] like listen for that long and because it [93:41] goes on like 45 minutes. I'm struggling [93:43] to like follow the path that you're [93:45] leading me down for that long. And he's [93:47] like, listen, don't worry. You can be [93:50] thinking about whatever you want. You [93:51] don't have to follow what I'm telling [93:53] you. He said, cuz your subconscious is [93:54] listening all the time. It's same. It's [93:56] the same when a couple of times I was [93:58] like fighting to stay awake cuz I was [93:59] tired and most of the time I do it after [94:01] training as well. So I'm tired. like [94:02] fighting to stay awake and I said, [94:04] "Look, I'm fighting to stay awake. I'm [94:06] like getting really tired." And he's [94:07] like, "Look, if you fall asleep, doesn't [94:08] matter. Your subconscious is still [94:09] listening, so it doesn't matter what's [94:11] going on." And a lot of the time, I'm [94:13] just there. I'm just like chilling out. [94:15] I'm listening to what he's saying, but [94:16] I'm also drifting off of my own [94:17] thoughts. And I don't know how, again, [94:20] I'm not like a psychologist, [94:22] hypnotherapist, or anything like that. [94:23] But I only know from my own personal [94:24] perspective that when it comes to like [94:28] anxiety and positive thinking and just [94:31] generally being in a better place [94:33] mentally, I just believe in it a lot. I [94:36] think it really helps me. Anxiety? What [94:39] journey have you been on with your [94:40] anxiety? Um, it's something that I've [94:44] always kind of dealt with, but I think [94:46] it's not uncommon to deal with it. And I [94:48] think that a lot of people think it [94:51] think it is uncommon. Like I uh I'm a [94:54] little bit OCD and I think that OCD and [94:57] anxiety goes hand in hand. Like I think [95:00] that and it used to be a lot worse to be [95:02] honest. I used to I struggled with it uh [95:04] when I was a child and still struggle [95:05] with it now. But I used to be a lot [95:07] worse when I was younger. And how did [95:09] that manifest? Oh, at one point at one [95:11] point it was like I couldn't sit in a [95:14] room unless the room was the way I [95:15] wanted it to look. Like unless the [95:18] curtains were closed the right way, the [95:21] drawers were shut perfectly, everything [95:22] was facing forward, the TV was on a [95:25] certain angle, like I couldn't rest. Oh, [95:27] really? Uh because of like I would think [95:29] like something bad is going to happen [95:31] unless all that's right. But after after [95:35] a while, I kind of grew out of that a [95:37] little bit and got a hold on it. But it [95:40] still creeps back, mate. Sometimes I try [95:41] and keep it at bay. Does it come out at [95:44] certain moments when certain things [95:45] happen? Yeah. Yeah, it does. it gets [95:46] worse. Um, again, like I said, I've been [95:49] through something quite traumatic [95:50] recently where my son was in hospital [95:52] and that's a whole another story of its [95:54] own, but at one point we were really [95:56] concerned about like my son's health [95:58] really. Um, and that was a big traumatic [96:01] thing for me and I noticed a lot that my [96:03] OCD starts to come back and I want to do [96:06] certain certain stuff again because my [96:09] anxiety is creeping up and just got to [96:11] really try and keep it at bay. And [96:13] anxiety separate to that. So um your [96:16] your anxiety [96:19] is always been something in the [96:21] background in your life but it it flares [96:22] up in certain situations. Yeah. So I [96:24] mean I'm in a an anxietyfueled sport. [96:29] So um I think naturally there's a lot [96:33] going on because of that. But it's just [96:35] something I think everybody deals with [96:36] it. I don't think I'm I don't think I'm [96:38] uncommon to anybody else. I think [96:40] especially these days it's a lot more [96:41] accepted to be like talking about it and [96:44] stuff. Um, it's super common, isn't it? [96:46] It's very common. Very, very common. I [96:48] think social media doesn't help with [96:51] that. Especially for like I mean for [96:53] myself it's like I have a thing now I've [96:55] only done for the last couple of fights [96:57] where social media is gone for my life [96:59] when I've got a fight date because there [97:02] is no chance that I'm thinking about my [97:04] opponent all day and I'm also scrolling [97:06] and reading all comments all day. It's [97:07] just not I just won't deal with it. And [97:10] for the next fight, I'm actually going [97:11] to uh have like a training camp phone, [97:15] okay? Where only people who are actually [97:18] involved in my training camp or personal [97:21] life. And when I say personal life, I'm [97:23] talking about my wife, my mom, and dad. [97:25] And probably that's it, are going to be [97:27] involved. Like, I don't want to have any [97:29] outside noise coming in at all. Your [97:31] son's doing okay now. Son's doing okay [97:33] now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully, [97:36] everything's good. puts things in [97:38] perspective, doesn't it? Honestly, [97:41] unbelievably. Um, [97:43] yeah. I mean, it wasn't really really [97:46] bad without going into too too many [97:48] details, but uh spent a stay in hospital [97:52] um with something that we wasn't sure [97:54] what it was at first and yeah, [97:56] massively. Absolutely. like nothing else [97:58] really matters if as long like as long [98:00] as you got your health and you know your [98:04] family's health like you're in a pretty [98:06] good spot I think because it's just a [98:08] horrible place to be in. Is this the son [98:11] that received an autism diagnosis? No, [98:13] this is my So one of my twins has [98:15] autism. Yeah. Yeah. This is the non [98:18] autistic. Okay. Tell me about your son [98:21] that was received the autism diagnosis [98:23] and the sort of journey you've been on [98:24] there. I I think this is really really [98:26] important because I've done this podcast [98:28] a while. Yeah. And I get so many DMs [98:31] from parents who have an autistic child [98:34] asking me to talk more about this [98:35] subject because they just don't feel [98:37] like the information is out there and [98:39] they there's a number of feelings that [98:40] they feel. I think one of them that I [98:41] see in my DMs expressed is a bit of [98:43] guilt to some degree, which is an [98:44] interesting one, but also just a lack of [98:46] people talking about the experience. So [98:49] take take me on the journey from when [98:51] that child was born and um the path to [98:55] the diagnosis. I mean I I'll give as [98:58] much detail as possible because like you [99:00] say I think parents [99:03] need details and there isn't a lot out [99:07] about it. And now for me [99:12] recently, like I say, I've been through [99:13] something traumatic with another one of [99:17] my kids. And the NHS has been absolutely [99:20] nothing short of unbelievable. Like, we [99:24] were in an emergency situation where we [99:26] needed emergency treatment. And my kid [99:28] got 24 hours a day looking after while [99:31] there was an emergency going on. And it [99:33] was unbelievable. We came away me and my [99:35] wife being like we are so lucky to live [99:37] in this country cuz my wife isn't from [99:39] this country as well. True. So we both [99:42] came away being like we are so lucky to [99:44] live here in a place where you can get [99:46] free everything [99:49] in an emergency level straight away. So [99:53] I'm not trying to throw the NHS under [99:55] the bus at all because when there's an [99:57] emergency it's amazing. That being said, [100:01] as far as the autistic community, [100:04] we are being failed. And I don't know if [100:07] that's from the NHS, from the [100:09] government. I don't know who that's [100:11] from, but I was in a spot. So, five, my [100:15] my twins are nearly six. They're coming [100:16] up to six. Um, so I was in a spot like [100:19] my twins were born and they were born [100:21] just before the lockdown. Then COVID [100:24] hit, everything like the world went to [100:26] [ __ ] as we know. And then my kids got in [100:29] in a place where, you know, we had a [100:32] child before and we're aware that kids [100:36] hit milestones. We got twins, so they [100:39] they're hitting the milestones at [100:40] different stages. Um then we start to [100:43] notice like may maybe two year the kids [100:47] are maybe two years old. We start to [100:49] notice like one kid is a fair bit beyond [100:53] the other one in in terms of speech, in [100:56] terms of how responsive he is, in terms [100:58] of [101:00] eye contact, in in terms of law. We we [101:02] could see something's different. [101:05] But me personally, as a dad, I was kind [101:07] of like in denial as to [101:11] right, this is a lockdown's fault. This [101:13] kid is 2 years old. He's been in the [101:15] house. He's been around me, my wife, and [101:18] his two brothers, sometimes grandparents [101:20] when the government would would let us. [101:22] And that's it for like two years. He's [101:24] not in social situations. He's not [101:25] around other kids. And that kind of went [101:28] on for a bit. I was kind of like heavily [101:31] in denial about it. Even though now [101:33] looking back, I could clearly see that [101:36] things weren't moving normally, [101:39] especially because he's got this twin [101:40] and the twin's like, you know, he's [101:43] moving at a different rate. So, it was [101:45] right there in front of my face. Um, but [101:47] I'm just like in this denial. He'll [101:49] catch up. It's just a lockdown's fault. [101:51] The government's keeping us all locked [101:53] inside. Blah blah blah. Patty McInness, [101:55] funny enough, who's a guy from uh my [101:58] area, like from a similar area. Don't [102:00] know Patty at all. Never met him. Um, [102:02] but he had this program um and it was [102:04] about autism. And I don't know why. One [102:07] day me and my wife we sat down and [102:08] watched this program and he I believe [102:11] has three autistic children. all of his [102:13] all of his three children are diagnosed [102:14] with autism. So anyway, I'm watching [102:17] this documentary and he's he's talking [102:19] about all the different [102:21] symptoms because it's a massive spectrum [102:23] autism. There's there's a million [102:25] different things. And I'm watching he's [102:27] talking about this one kid. He does [102:29] this. This is this is the way that [102:31] autism presents himself in this [102:33] particular kid. And in my mind, I'm [102:35] thinking my my son does do that a little [102:38] bit. And then he's talking about a [102:40] different kid who who also is diagnosed [102:42] with autism the way that the the child [102:44] does this. And I'm thinking [102:46] anyway, he's he's going through talking [102:48] about his different children. And I'm [102:50] thinking, wow, he like my my child ticks [102:55] a lot of these boxes [102:57] and then I Google it. I don't I know [102:59] nothing about autism at the time. And [103:01] obviously that is the worst thing you [103:02] can ever do. and I'm going through these [103:04] symptoms being like, "Wow, this is when [103:07] I don't know what to do. Like, we need [103:09] to try and try and get help." [103:12] So, anyway, we make a doctor's [103:13] appointment at the GP and that is a [103:16] complete mess. It's difficult to get an [103:19] appointment. We go in, they put us on a [103:20] waiting list. Anyway, [103:23] a year or so goes by, [103:26] the the child [103:28] isn't developing at the speed of his [103:31] twin. We can see this clearly. We are [103:33] worried about what's going on and um [103:37] we don't know what to do. Like we are [103:39] literally [103:41] we have no idea about what's going on, [103:43] how to progress this child, [103:45] what his future's going to look like. We [103:48] know nothing about autism, me and my [103:49] wife at the time. Absolutely zero about [103:52] it. We don't know. It's just so such [103:55] anxiety. [103:57] like you don't know what your child's [103:59] future's going to look like and how to [104:00] help him or her on how to progress as a [104:04] human being. That is some of the worst [104:07] anxiety that you can ever have. You've [104:09] brought this kid to this earth [104:13] and you can't even point them in the [104:15] right direction of where to go on how to [104:20] navigate the way through life and it's [104:22] it's a really really difficult thing. [104:23] Anyway, I go on a question of sport the [104:26] show. Patty McInness is the host. [104:30] Me and P me and Patty are chatting a [104:31] little bit and uh after the show, [104:34] whatever. And I said, "Look, Patty, if [104:35] you don't mind me asking, uh I I watch [104:38] your show about um autism." I said, "I'm [104:42] trying to get my kid diagnosed. I've [104:43] been I've been on the waiting list a [104:44] year. Like, what should we do?" So, [104:47] anyway, he gives me the number to the to [104:49] the specialist. I call the specialist. [104:51] We go in for a meeting. Long story [104:53] short, paid for the diagnosis, [104:57] got this kid diagnosed, and now my child [105:01] is in a mainstream school. He has a [105:04] one-to-one one-to-one teacher. He's [105:08] getting the help he needs. He's doing [105:10] really well. He's progressing. [105:13] How the future's going to look, we don't [105:15] know. We we're dealing with it dayto [105:17] day. And now I am completely aware [105:21] that as a person in a good financial [105:23] situation I have the ability to do that [105:26] is to go pay the money and get that. And [105:30] now there is so many people so so many [105:34] people who and I mean I get hundreds of [105:38] messages about it. Hundreds of people [105:40] stopping me on the street about it [105:42] because I've spoke a little bit about [105:43] autism who they are going to the GP. [105:46] They're going for assessments and they [105:49] cannot get a diagnosis. They're on a [105:51] three, four, five year waiting list. And [105:54] these kids are getting sent to [105:55] mainstream schools and the kids are just [105:58] regressing and regressing and regressing [106:01] because they don't have any help and the [106:03] parents of the kids have zero direction [106:07] and they don't know what to do. And [106:09] we're in a really tough spot with it in [106:11] this country where like I said, we've [106:13] got this amazing NHS. I don't know if [106:16] it's the NHS that's holding this or the [106:18] government, but and I don't know what's [106:19] causing autism. There's a million things [106:21] out there about vaccinations, about [106:24] diet, about things that they're watching [106:25] on TV, about the toys that they play [106:27] with. You know, there's a load of [106:28] different theories on it. Me personally, [106:30] I don't know what it is. Obviously, I'm [106:32] not a specialist with that, but I know [106:34] that autism is getting bigger and bigger [106:36] each year. There's more and more people [106:39] trying to get diagnosed. There's more [106:41] and more people getting diagnosed. [106:44] and the help just isn't there. The help, [106:47] especially in schools, like I'm so lucky [106:49] that my son has an amazing one-to-one [106:50] teacher. Every day he goes and he enjoys [106:53] school and he progresses a little bit. [106:54] And we know what we're in a position [106:57] where we've had help as parents that we [107:00] know what kind of direction and where to [107:03] navigate him in sometimes. Now, there's [107:06] so many parents out there who've been [107:08] on, like I say, three, four, five, six, [107:10] seven year waiting list. their kids are [107:12] just getting worse and worse and worse [107:15] and as a penalty to that the parents [107:17] life are then getting worse and worse [107:19] and worse and they have absolutely no [107:21] direction of where to go and what to do [107:24] and it's a serious serious crisis that [107:27] we've got in this country at the moment [107:28] there are in this country there are [107:30] 700,000 autistic adults and children um [107:34] but in the US roughly 2.5% of the US [107:36] population has been diagnosed with [107:37] autism and it is four times more common [107:40] in boys than girls and there was a 787% [107:46] rise in the number of autism diagnosis [107:48] over the last roughly two decades um [107:51] which is on one hand awareness being is [107:54] higher. So people are going and getting [107:55] a diagnosis but some think there might [107:57] be other factors that are actually [107:58] increasing the amount of people that are [108:00] autistic. Why for someone that doesn't [108:03] understand autism and the process that [108:05] and the plight of a parent that has an [108:06] autistic child is the diagnosis so [108:08] critical? Is it because you then get [108:10] additional support and guidance and you [108:12] can access that support if you have a [108:14] diagnosis? So I was under the notion [108:16] that if my kid is diagnosed autistic or [108:19] not, doesn't matter. That was that was [108:22] my original thing. Doesn't matter. He's [108:24] still my kid. I'm still going to love [108:25] him. I'm still going to guide him [108:26] through whatever he needs to in life. [108:29] Now I completely respect anybody who's [108:32] doing that. He has 100% respect from [108:34] from me and I'm sure everybody else. But [108:37] the biggest issue is like me personally, [108:40] I'm a professional athlete. It's like I [108:44] know that for this many hours a day, I [108:46] need to be in the gym and training. When [108:48] I'm not in the gym, I need to be [108:49] recovering. When I'm not in the gym, I [108:50] need to be eating the right things. And [108:52] I have this process of of things that [108:54] make me successful. That's how I work in [108:56] my life. [108:57] If you don't have a diagnosis of autism, [109:00] the only way I can describe it, because [109:02] I've been there, is you're just kind of [109:04] like treading water. You're just stuck [109:07] in one place flailing around and not [109:11] really knowing how to do them steps and [109:14] progress your family life in your [109:16] child's life. That's the way that I look [109:18] at it personally. I'm speaking 100% for [109:21] myself, but if you not got a diagnosis, [109:24] first of all, you're not getting any [109:26] funding, which like I said, I'm in a [109:28] financial position where I don't need [109:29] any funding, but there's a lot of people [109:31] out there who do need funding. And [109:34] funding looks like [109:36] outlets for the child, [109:39] help in school, help at home, help for [109:42] the parents, help for the friends, [109:45] sensory rooms in school, sensory toys, [109:48] you know, there's a whole host of things [109:50] that can help autistic children or [109:52] autistic people. And without that [109:55] diagnosis, if you don't if you're a [109:56] parent and you don't have that for your [109:58] child, from my personal experience, it [110:01] feels like you're treading water. I feel [110:03] like I needed a process of this is these [110:07] are the steps that we have to take to [110:09] help my child progress. And I think that [110:12] it's what we need is it's not about [110:17] another number on the statistics that [110:20] you've read out. It's not about that. [110:22] It's not about me saying I've got an [110:24] autistic child or whatever. It's about [110:26] the help that your child can get. And [110:28] right now we definitely don't have [110:31] enough help in this country. I had one [110:33] of my best friends was diagnosed with [110:34] autism. Um he's been one of my best [110:36] friends for a long time. He's actually [110:37] also worked at my company um for for [110:40] many many years. And he spoke to me [110:42] about the sense of relief that he [110:45] experienced when he got his diagnosis. [110:46] But also it was kind of like like you're [110:49] describing there was suddenly a sense of [110:51] direction and understanding like someone [110:53] turned the lights on and with the lights [110:54] on he was able to make better decisions [110:57] and it's not held him back in any If [110:59] anything, it's done the opposite. It's [111:00] helped him to understand himself. But I [111:02] think for for some of us who don't [111:04] understand, haven't been through that, [111:06] we either don't can't relate, but but [111:08] also we have no no idea that there's [111:10] additional I had no idea until you just [111:12] said it just then that there's [111:13] additional support given in schools and [111:15] stuff like that to kids who have that [111:16] diagnosis. So, it's critically important [111:18] and I'm so glad that you share that with [111:20] us because hopefully there's some people [111:21] watching in the government but also [111:23] parents that can get together and that [111:25] are presumably getting together to [111:28] change this. Yeah. I mean, it's a tough [111:30] thing for me to talk about because I'm [111:33] completely aware that there will be [111:35] people watching this and thinking who is [111:37] this knucklehead talking about like [111:41] autism diagnosis and what the government [111:43] needs to go through. But it's also an [111:46] experience that I've lived and it's also [111:48] an experience that I'm still living. [111:50] Mhm. And that I'm fully aware just from [111:53] my local area and my circle of friends [111:55] and people around me that there is a [111:58] [ __ ] ton of people who are in the same [112:00] boat as I am and need help. And uh I [112:04] feel extremely lucky and grateful that [112:05] I've got the help and that we are [112:07] progressing. But I know that there's a [112:09] lot of people who don't and that are [112:10] struggling. So I want to try and speak [112:12] for those people if I can. Thank you for [112:14] doing that. That's there's a lot of my [112:16] audience that are going to be very very [112:17] grateful for that. There's something sat [112:19] next to me on the table here, which is [112:21] this this belt. It's very very heavy. I [112:23] know this is just a replica, but you do [112:25] have the real one at home. And the [112:27] reason why um you only bought me the [112:29] replica instead of the real thing. Um is [112:33] because the real thing costs a lot of [112:35] money apparently. Apparently. [112:37] Apparently. So I I heard rumors online [112:39] that the real thing actually costs about [112:42] 300 grand. Yeah. And you have to sign a [112:44] contract when you receive this belt that [112:46] if you lose it, then you have to [112:48] personally pay. If it goes missing, I'm [112:50] paying for it. So hopefully that won't [112:53] that won't happen. But it's in a very [112:55] safe spot, so it won't it won't go [112:56] missing. I'm not going to ask you where [112:58] you keep it cuz there's people [112:58] listening. But um just what are these [113:01] flags around it? I've actually never [113:03] seen one before. So I'm not too sure. I [113:05] know this bit this bit here. The side. [113:08] Yeah. So these these little um these [113:12] stones whatever they are uh you get one [113:15] of those are the different so they're [113:16] all I think on the real one the diamonds [113:18] and this is a is is it a ruby or [113:20] something? A ruby it looks like you get [113:22] a ruby when you defend it. So I defended [113:24] it once so I got one and then obviously [113:26] that fills up the more you do it. Oh, so [113:28] if you defend it one two three four five [113:30] six seven times it's going to be all [113:32] eight rubies. Yeah. Okay. What what does [113:34] that say there? It says UFC 304 Edwards [113:37] versus Muhammad 2. My personal one has [113:40] my like my name on it and the the proper [113:42] details but cuz this is a replica. And [113:44] when you won that interim heavyweight [113:46] championship [113:47] and then you woke up the next day, how [113:50] did you feel [113:52] honestly? Well, I woke up about 3 days [113:55] later. [113:57] I didn't sorry I didn't sleep for about [113:59] 3 days after uh cuz I was very excited. [114:02] Um, yeah, pretty good. Pretty I mean I I [114:05] won it in weird circumstances. So that [114:08] fight I took on really short and I will [114:09] say I actually wasn't in shape for that [114:10] fight at all. Um I actually just come [114:13] back off a off a stagd do so I wasn't uh [114:16] in my best shape when I when I answered [114:18] that call. Um was there any anti-limax [114:21] to it? No. No, but [114:26] there's definitely an anti-limax a [114:28] little bit to um [114:32] like being quote unquote successful [114:34] because you still feel the same like as [114:37] you you still have the same um issues [114:41] like issues as you had before like [114:45] money, fame and titles doesn't change [114:48] much in terms of what goes on inside [114:50] your brain in my opinion. Maybe it does [114:52] change some for some people, but uh for [114:54] me, I still have the same struggles as I [114:55] did before. It doesn't change anything [114:56] in that regard. I think when you're [114:58] younger, especially, I don't know. It's [115:00] like young people, they think that rich [115:02] people have no problems, and it just [115:04] isn't true. It's just it's just so far [115:07] from the truth. You know that. Yeah. [115:10] Well, you know, they say more money, [115:11] more problems, but it's just a different [115:12] set of problems than some of the other [115:14] Well, that's it. That's it. I mean, at [115:15] one point, as we spoke about in detail, [115:18] a big problem was of mine was I couldn't [115:20] pay my rent and I couldn't pay fuel to [115:22] put in the car. That's gone. But there [115:24] there's more problems that have arose [115:26] since um the money won't fix. Do you [115:29] know what I mean? Are you at all [115:30] concerned that when you when your time [115:31] does come, you want to retire relatively [115:33] early so you don't get any cognitive [115:34] issues or have to fight beyond your [115:36] time. Are you at all concerned about [115:38] what you do next? Cuz we've seen people [115:40] like Tyson Fury sort of really struggle. [115:42] I I am a little bit to be honest. I'd be [115:44] lying if I said otherwise. Um, [115:47] just because it takes up so much of my [115:49] time. Takes up so much of my time and [115:52] the time that I'm not actually actually [115:54] physically training like I'm not in the [115:56] gym training. I am doing other stuff [115:58] towards it. I.e. [116:01] even stuff like breathing exercises I [116:03] would class as part of my training. [116:05] Stretching, eating right, sleep like I [116:07] would class this all as part of my [116:09] training routine. [116:11] So when I've not got that, [116:15] what will my life look like? I don't [116:17] know. I I don't know. And that's [116:18] something [116:20] as we spoke about before, I'm aware that [116:22] I'm on the second half of my career now. [116:24] When that's done, how does it look? And [116:27] I don't know if anything can ever [116:30] replace that in all honesty. What about [116:32] the money side of things? So are you [116:34] having to think now? Cuz what's the [116:36] average age of a UFC fighter retiring? I [116:38] mean, most people don't even get there, [116:39] but if you do really, really well, you [116:41] might fight until if you're really [116:42] really lucky, you might do Stipes's age [116:45] 40ish. 40. Yeah. Yeah. Bigger guys tend [116:48] to go longer. I don't know why that is, [116:49] but yeah, generally the heavyweights [116:51] usually 40ish. So, how do you think [116:53] about financial longevity? And are you [116:56] investing your money? Have you got [116:58] people that help you? I do. I do. I'm [117:00] looking to um invest all the time. [117:03] actually my team has actually been [117:06] really um [117:09] really good with that kind of stuff. [117:11] Like a lot of my uh not a lot but a few [117:13] of my sponsorships I actually have uh [117:16] shares in business as well as the [117:18] sponsorship and also I want to do more [117:21] stuff. I really love the sport of MMA so [117:23] I'm always like even though I'm retired [117:25] from fighting I will never be involved [117:27] I'll never be retired from MMA if that [117:29] makes sense. I've definitely made [117:32] mistakes in the media space before, [117:36] definitely, but I'm learning. And I [117:38] definitely think there's a place for me [117:40] somewhere in the future to educate [117:42] people on MMA, however that looks, [117:45] whether it's punditry, [117:47] whether it's podcasts, whether it's I [117:49] don't know some something somewhere. I [117:51] definitely think that I will give some [117:53] kind of insight to somebody where people [117:55] can um hopefully learn something from me [117:57] in that regard. I think you're more than [117:59] capable of doing that. I'd love to see [118:00] you give uh breakdowns. I've seen some [118:03] of the stuff you're doing with school as [118:04] well. So, you know, a Thank you. I've [118:05] also I've also uh they've I don't know [118:08] why, but they g my own show now on TNT [118:10] Sport as well, breaking down fights. So, [118:12] this is uh this start. I'm just getting [118:14] the foot in the door. It's not something [118:15] that I'm focusing on full-time now [118:17] because I'm obviously really busy with [118:19] other stuff, but um when I'm done, [118:21] that's what I want to do. What does your [118:23] dad think of all of this? He's been such [118:24] a central figure in your in your life. [118:27] this whole Jon Jones situation. You went [118:29] in the this belt that sits in front of [118:32] me here. You must have like blown his [118:34] mind. I don't think so. Really? Yeah. I [118:38] think that he had this firm belief. He [118:41] believed in me way before I believed in [118:43] myself. I always say and I think that [118:46] this is also his dream as well. But I [118:49] don't think for any of us, and this is [118:50] going to sound super arrogant, but it's [118:52] the truth. I don't think any of us are [118:54] surprised by it. I think that in some [118:58] way uh it was like written for us to do [119:01] it. I don't know. I I I can't explain it [119:03] any more than that. Like I feel like we [119:05] were both expecting to be here and uh [119:08] this is where we are and and this is [119:10] where we're going to be till till I'm [119:11] done. Did he ever tell you you were [119:13] going to be here? Yeah. What did he say? [119:15] Just just little. He was never like [119:17] you're going to be that. But it was [119:19] like, look, if you keep doing this, this [119:21] is where you're going to go. If you if [119:23] you keep being dedicated to training and [119:25] keep living your life right and keep [119:26] focused, you can be heavyweight champion [119:28] of the world. And I think that [119:30] especially cuz I'm from like a smaller [119:33] town, a blueco collar town for sure, a [119:35] workingass town that that belief is shut [119:40] down so much from a young age by not [119:43] just parents but pe other people [119:46] surrounding in the community. Like [119:48] listen, maybe don't maybe don't [119:51] don't think you're going to be a [119:52] Hollywood actor because you're not. [119:54] Maybe maybe try and be a bit more [119:56] realistic and do something a bit No, if [119:59] you think you're going to be a Hollywood [120:02] actor, you go for it. Like you you go [120:05] 100% at that and don't let anything [120:08] waver from where you're going. And I [120:10] think that that is not told to [120:12] especially the younger generation [120:14] enough. I think that like I say I'm from [120:17] a very very blue collar humble town and [120:22] from my town there aren't many people [120:24] who've done anything of great magnitude [120:28] in in terms of sport and otherwise. Um, [120:30] and I think a lot of that, not not all [120:33] of it of course, but I think a lot of it [120:35] comes from the mentality of, yeah, maybe [120:38] don't maybe don't aim for that. Aim for [120:40] something a bit lower. And that that [120:42] shouldn't be encouraged in my opinion. [120:44] Always [120:46] your first option should be the highest [120:48] of the high. And if you land any lower, [120:50] then you readjust. You change the goal [120:51] post a little bit. But the first thing [120:53] is shoot as high as you can. Are you [120:56] special? Yes. [121:03] Why are you special? [121:07] I think that [121:10] I have an First of all, I think I'm [121:13] really physically gifted. Mhm. In terms [121:16] of uh athleticism, but it's something [121:18] that I have worked on a lot as well. [121:20] It's not I didn't just wake up like [121:21] this. I've definitely worked a lot over [121:23] the years of it. But I think that aside, [121:26] I think I've got a gift mentally and [121:30] this this has been [121:33] horned a lot by the people around me [121:36] through the years. Like I said, there's [121:37] been a lot of people supporting me. But [121:39] I think I've got a gift to [121:44] perform really, really well under [121:46] massive pressure. Under massive [121:49] pressure. And I don't think, like I say, [121:53] it's been honed a lot for sure by my dad [121:55] and the other people around me, [121:56] definitely. But I think that I I have a [122:00] God-given gift or whoever universe given [122:02] gift or whoever you believe in that I [122:06] can perform extremely well under the [122:09] highest pressure situations possible. [122:11] Even though you feel the fear. Even [122:13] though I feel the fear because I accept [122:14] the fear. I bathe in the fear. [122:18] I think uh it's not the first time [122:20] you've said that. No, it's something [122:21] that someone told me. It's something [122:23] that someone told me recently. I thought [122:25] it was funny. So, when you feel that [122:26] fear, is there something you say to [122:27] yourself? Is there like a mantra or a [122:29] system? Well, I I always say that I used [122:31] to have two fights. I used to be [122:32] fighting my opponent. I used to be [122:34] fighting myself. I used to be trying to [122:36] block out the fear trying to like But [122:38] you know what? I just I just took it on [122:40] board and I accepted that this this is [122:41] going to help me like you. There's so [122:43] many examples over the years. I I like [122:45] to give this example because uh this [122:48] actually happened to one of my close [122:49] friends. So, he's putting a wardrobe up [122:52] and the wardrobe is like a really heavy [122:54] wardrobe fell on his kid who was like [122:57] not even walking at the time [123:00] and he he's he's a skinny guy like he's [123:02] a small slight guy. He was on his own [123:05] and he he pulled the wardrobe off the [123:08] kid, right? [123:10] And then anyway, everything was fine. [123:13] The kid was fine. everything, whatever. [123:15] 5 minutes later, he went to move the [123:17] wardrobe to another part of the room and [123:18] realized that he couldn't pick it up. [123:20] And there's only one thing that's made [123:22] him pick that wardrobe up, and his fear. [123:24] Fear that that kid is going to get [123:26] crushed under that really heavy [123:27] wardrobe. And when he actually went to [123:30] pick the wardrobe up without that, there [123:32] was no way he could have done it. He had [123:34] to he had to wait till somebody came and [123:36] and helped him move the wardrobe across [123:37] the room. There was no way that he could [123:39] have done it without the fear. And [123:40] there's so many situations like if [123:42] you're running for your life, 100% [123:45] guaranteed that you're running way [123:46] quicker than you would if you were just [123:48] running down the street goes without [123:50] saying because that fear fuels you in [123:53] ways that you nothing else will and I [123:56] have accepted that and took it on board [123:58] and used it to help me. Because as [124:01] someone that's watched your fights both [124:02] on screen but in person, I one of the [124:05] things that I remember about you more so [124:07] than other fighters I've seen is how [124:11] calm you look in the ring. Y and I don't [124:13] I'm like does he just know he's like [124:16] amazingly good or is there something [124:18] he's doing? Because you kind of look how [124:19] I look when I get to the office [124:22] and I don't have some 6'5 guy that's [124:24] trying to kill me. Oh, it's all it's all [124:26] by design though. Really? It's by [124:27] design. Yeah. Um, so one of my one of my [124:31] absolute heroes in the sport of MMA is a [124:33] guy called GSP, George St. Pierre. He's [124:35] one of the best fighters to ever lace up [124:37] the gloves. But not only that, he's one [124:38] of the best humans as well. I'm lucky [124:40] enough to have met him a few times and [124:41] had some deep discussions with him. And [124:44] he's someone I've studied a lot inside [124:47] and outside of the octagon over the [124:49] years. Um, and [124:52] thing with GSP is he like me has always [124:56] admitted how scared he was. And that's [124:58] something that I've watched countless [124:59] interviews and podcasts with him and how [125:01] he talks about it and stuff. and he used [125:03] a method and he actually told me about [125:05] the method where I'm not sure what the [125:07] method's called and I don't I don't even [125:09] know if there's any scientific evidence [125:10] behind it but it works for him and it's [125:13] worked for me on multiple occasions [125:15] where if you physically present yourself [125:18] in a way that even if mentally you don't [125:21] feel like that like on fight day for [125:23] example the last thing I feel like doing [125:27] is smiling in all honesty I'm not in a [125:30] smiley mood but when you smile you feel [125:32] good. You relax. You enjoy yourself. [125:34] You're confident. So, I will walk around [125:37] fake smiling with my head held high and [125:40] my shoulders back like there's nothing [125:42] bothering me in the world. Not because [125:45] there isn't anything bothering me [125:46] because trust me, on fight day there's a [125:48] lot of stuff bothering me. I have to get [125:50] in there in front of millions of people [125:51] and have a fight with someone and it's [125:54] highly likely that I'm going to be [125:56] separated from my own consciousness in [125:57] front of millions of people. The last [125:59] thing I want to do is walk around with a [126:01] smile on my face, with my shoulders [126:02] back, with my head up high, being [126:04] friendly and nice to people and being in [126:06] a good mood and being relaxed. That's [126:07] the last thing I feel. But I purposely [126:11] walk around like that all day in every [126:13] situation that I can possibly be in. And [126:15] sooner or later, believe it or not, my [126:18] mind will actually start to follow my [126:21] body's lead. And it's unbelievable. It's [126:24] unbelievable the way that that can [126:25] happen. And like you say, you'll see me. [126:28] I'm stood there in the octagon and I am [126:30] scared to death. My opponent is looking [126:32] at me across the octagon like he wants [126:34] to kill me. And I'm looking back like [126:36] I'm in the queue for a sandwich. By [126:39] design. By design, I do it. The same [126:42] with the walk to the octagon. [126:45] There's a million people throwing beer [126:47] on me, shouting in my face, booing me, [126:49] sticking fingers up in my face, saying [126:51] that I'm going to die literally while [126:53] I'm walking to fight another human [126:55] being. [126:56] And I look like I've just woke up and [126:58] taken the dog for a walk by design [127:01] because if your body does it sooner or [127:05] later your mind will start to follow and [127:08] like I say this is like a bro science [127:10] thing probably but this is something [127:12] that I've experienced a lot myself and [127:14] it's proven at least to me and and to to [127:17] George as well that uh it can be done. [127:20] We have a closing in on this podcast [127:21] where the last guest leaves a question [127:22] for the next guest not knowing who [127:23] they're going to be leaving it for. This [127:24] question is hilarious as far as I'm [127:26] concerned and it kind of reveals who [127:29] left the question, right? The question [127:31] is, it's weird saying this to you. [127:34] Why don't you work harder? [127:37] That's a good question. Who Who's left [127:38] that? Can you Can you figure it out from [127:40] what we said? I know. So, this was the [127:42] last guest. I told you I was in America. [127:45] Oh, Mr. Beast. Mr. Beast, [127:50] why don't you work harder? That's a good [127:52] question. It's a It's a good question. I [127:54] like to think I work as hard as I can, [127:56] but I think if everybody looks in the [127:58] mirror, [128:00] I think everybody could work a bit [128:01] harder. I think I probably like sleep [128:04] too much [128:06] is the reason that I don't I think [128:07] that's the only thing holding me back [128:09] cuz everything when I'm awake, [128:11] everything's geared towards me being the [128:13] best that I can be. So, I think maybe I [128:15] like sleep a little bit too much. Well, [128:17] sleep makes you work harder. It does. [128:18] That's what I thought. That's what I [128:19] thought. Oh, that that that's uh that's [128:22] still working hard as far as I'm [128:23] concerned. Tom, thank you so much. Um [128:25] you are such an incredible inspiration [128:26] for so many reasons mainly because [128:29] you're so remarkably down to earth but [128:33] at the same time able to confidently [128:36] say on camera which I by the way really [128:38] really admire and respect that you think [128:40] you're special. And I think there's a [128:42] certain nonchalantness that sometimes [128:44] people come with because they're trying [128:45] to be like fake humble. Yeah. But I [128:47] really respect people that say, "No, no, [128:49] no, I think I'm special." And to be able [128:50] to say that with such humility, but also [128:52] with such a track record to justify that [128:54] claim is in tremendously spiring because [128:57] you come from, as you say, like a blue [128:59] collar area. You come from a normal [129:01] place. You're a normal guy that has just [129:03] committed himself to something despite [129:05] the any short-term or medium-term [129:08] rewards in your life because you loved [129:10] it and you believed in yourself. And I [129:12] think that for for anybody listening [129:13] should be evidence enough that we we all [129:16] have a chance at at least something. It [129:18] might not be being the heavyweight [129:19] champion of the world because you [129:20] acknowledge you have physical gifts that [129:22] you know myself I don't I wasn't born [129:24] with but um but we can all do something [129:26] with that obsession with that focus with [129:29] a supporting group of people around us [129:30] with the right mentality and with a [129:32] commitment to it despite um the [129:35] objective reality that we're going [129:36] through. But also, I admire you so much [129:38] because of everything you've said about [129:40] your child with autism and the work [129:42] you're doing to push harder for um to to [129:45] reduce the diagnosis times in the NHS at [129:47] the moment, which so many parents out [129:49] there are going to really appreciate. Um [129:51] and we are all behind you as a nation. [129:54] You're a good guy. You'd be the first [129:57] ever to do to unify the belts in such a [129:59] way um as a British guy. And uh [130:04] wouldn't that be something? [130:06] Listen, if anybody can do it and and [130:09] just saying about the special thing. [130:10] Mhm. [130:13] I wasn't born special. And like you [130:15] said, I am from the most regular [130:17] background that you can come from. And I [130:21] don't mean to say I'm not saying I'm [130:24] special that in the fact that like I'm [130:25] better than anybody else because I [130:26] believe that anybody can be special. And [130:30] I think more people need to believe it. [130:32] You know what I mean? I think that more [130:33] people [130:35] if they work hard enough and don't quit [130:38] on themselves, they can be special as [130:40] well. And uh I think we'll leave it at [130:42] that. Amen. Thank you so much, Tom. [130:44] Thank you. [130:48] [Music] [131:05] [Music]