Tim Ferriss Tests Bioelectric Medicine to Cure Mental Trauma

Tim Ferriss 测试生物电医学以治愈心理创伤 靶向迷走神经刺激与生物电疗法无需精神类药物，通过直接重新平衡神经通路来治疗慢性焦虑与创伤。 Tim Ferriss 探讨了针对心理健康的非药物干预措施，分享了自己应对童年创伤和临床抑郁症的亲身经历，并提供了用于快速学习与人生设计的实用框架。对话涵盖了多种新兴医疗手段，包括加速经颅磁刺激（TMS）、代谢精神病学、迷幻剂疗法及迷走神经刺激。此外，Ferriss 与主持人 Steven Bartlett 还讨论了现代生活方式带来的挑战，从数字约会倦怠到现实人际联结的必要性，以及用心维系关系的重要性。 Tim Ferriss 提出 DiSSS 快速技能习得框架（解构、筛选、排序、押注），并建议将人生规划拆解为 6 到 12 个月的短期项目，优先积累跨周期的技能与人脉以对抗坏运气。 (3:23) Ferriss 坦陈幼年遭遇性侵与重度抑郁的经历，指出未消解的童年创伤往往是诸多心理问题的根源，长期的情感解离与压抑最终会演变为日常生活中的巨大心理内耗。 (15:32) 针对慢性焦虑与难治性抑郁，Ferriss 深入探讨了加速经颅磁刺激（TMS）、利用生酮饮食重塑脑能量代谢的精神病学方案，以及通过致幻剂重启神经发育窗口的辅助疗法。 (39:05) 迷走神经刺激（VNS）与生物电医学展现出巨大潜力，微型植入体或非侵入式电刺激能够通过脑肠轴调控免疫反应，在提升心率变异性（HRV）及改善自律神经功能上效果显著。 (45:26)

Tim Ferriss argues that widespread modern mental health struggles often stem from unresolved foundational trauma and evolutionary mismatch, which can be mitigated through emerging bioelectric and metabolic interventions alongside systematic personal frameworks. He asserts that deconstructing personal pain, skill acquisition, and relationship management into low-risk experiments enables individuals to recover agency and achieve sustainable well-being. Deconstructing Early Trauma and the Compartmentalization Trap (15:32) Ferriss links his adult psychological challenges—including severe Major Depressive Disorder that previously caused three to four multi-week episodes per year—directly to recurring sexual abuse endured between ages two and four. Survivors often develop extreme compartmentalization to survive high-stress environments, a trait Ferriss describes as a functional superpower in athletics and business that eventually acts as a severe emotional handicap in civilian life. After years of suppressing emotions, he credits psychedelic therapy with re-engaging his emotional responsiveness, and targeted protocols have reduced his depressive episodes to one brief period every two to three years. Following a 1999 near-suicide experience at Princeton disrupted by a library notification postcard sent to his parents' house, Ferriss published personal accounts to provide actionable recovery pathways. When Ferriss publicly disclosed his history alongside podcast host Debbie Millman in 2020, between 25% and 33% of his close male friends reached out to reveal similar undisclosed childhood trauma, highlighting what Ferriss describes as a silent, widespread epidemic. Emerging Clinical Levers in Bioelectric and Metabolic Psychiatry Viewing contemporary psychiatry as remaining in its relative 'dark ages,' Ferriss highlights clinical interventions that address treatment-resistant depression and anxiety without traditional long-term medication regimens. Accelerated Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), which delivers ten 8-minute sessions daily over five consecutive days, provided Ferriss with four to five months of complete anxiety relief and has achieved rapid remission of acute suicidal ideation in clinical cases. Ferriss also points to metabolic psychiatry, championed by Dr. Chris Palmer, where therapeutic ketogenic diets supply ketone bodies to stabilize cerebral energy metabolism and have eliminated medication reliance in chronic schizophrenia cases. In parallel, psychedelic trials utilizing MDMA and psilocybin demonstrate over 50% remission rates in chronic PTSD cohorts. Researchers like Dr. Gul Dolen suggest this occurs because psychedelics reopen critical neurodevelopmental learning windows, allowing patients to reprocess deeply ingrained trauma. Vagus Nerve Stimulation and Gut-Brain Communication Ferriss identifies Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS) as a major frontier in bioelectric medicine, despite cautioning that the commercial market contains pervasive pseudoscientific devices. The vagus nerve comprises two major bundles containing approximately 100,000 fibers each, coordinating bidirectional communication between the central nervous system, visceral organs, and the gut microbiome. Newly FDA-approved implants the size of a fish oil capsule have demonstrated clinical efficacy in reversing severe systemic inflammation associated with rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease. Non-invasive stimulation applied to the neck or the outer ear's cymba conchae has shown significant improvements in heart rate variability (HRV), with one colleague tripling baseline metrics within four weeks. Highlighting the neural control of metabolism, Ferriss cites rodent research where severing the vagus nerve prevented lean mice from becoming obese after receiving microbiome transplants from obese donors, pointing toward electrical stimulation as a way to achieve metabolic and anti-inflammatory outcomes without requiring strict dietary compliance. Metalearning Frameworks and Asymmetric Project Selection (3:23) To acquire complex capabilities rapidly, Ferriss applies the 'DiSSS' model: Deconstruction (breaking goals into component parts), Selection (applying the 80/20 Pareto principle, such as learning the top 1,500 words for conversational fluency), Sequencing (ordering practice correctly, like mastering swimming body position before breathing), and Stakes (creating behavioral accountability through loss aversion). He stresses that skill acquisition is non-linear, warning that unmet linear expectations cause most people to quit prematurely. Ferriss advises against rigid 5- or 10-year plans, advocating instead for 6- to 12-month projects composed of 2- to 4-week experiments evaluated purely on whether they build durable relationships and transferable skills. For example, advising early-stage StumbleUpon failed as an investment but built technical knowledge and a relationship with Garrett Camp, which subsequently led to Ferriss becoming an early advisor to Uber. When selecting initiatives, Ferriss favors tracking intuitive, daily physical energy over ambiguous notions of passion. Evolutionary Realignment, Relationship Audits, and Disconnection Ferriss contends that modern surges in anxiety, depression, and loneliness stem from departures from evolutionary design, which requires analog, in-person social connection rather than isolated living. He criticizes dating applications as gamified 'digital casinos' that deploy variable rewards to trap users in perpetual dopamine loops, where an overabundance of options induces choice fatigue and diminishes relationship satisfaction. To preserve core personal networks, Ferriss conducts an annual 'Past Year Review,' allocating social time to his top 5 to 10 relationships before offering surplus time to new acquaintances, supported by an ongoing 25-year summer reunion tradition with close friends. He also recommends an annual four-week 'mini-retirement' completely disconnected from work computers and communication tools. This practice serves to prevent chronic burnout, force businesses to develop autonomous operational systems, and audit whether an entrepreneur has maintained a viable identity outside of work. While Ferriss anticipates that bioelectric medicine and metabolic interventions will overturn foundational psychiatric assumptions within the next decade, consumer markets remain heavily diluted by unvalidated wellness products. Whether non-invasive stimulation can reliably replicate the systemic anti-inflammatory benefits of strict metabolic diets across broad populations remains an open question subject to ongoing clinical trial verification.

Tim Ferriss 在对话中阐述，面对当代社会不断攀升的心理健康危机，真正的突破在于探寻核心创伤与生理机制，并提倡结合元学习框架、生物电医学及线下真实联结，实现可持续的自我修复与长期成长。 高效技能习得的 DiSSS 模型与非对称风险 (3:23) Ferriss 认为时间是人类最宝贵的不可再生资源，他将自己定位为“自我实验者、学生与教师”。针对元学习，他提出了通用的 DiSSS 框架：解构（Deconstruction，将游泳或语言等模糊目标拆解为细小组成部分，并以极低成本咨询世界级选手）、选择（Selection，应用二八定律，例如掌握 1500 个高频词即可在 8 至 12 周内实现外语日常交流）、排序（Sequencing，确定正确的训练逻辑顺序，如学游泳应先掌握身体姿态再练呼吸）以及惩罚注码（Stakes，利用损失厌恶建立行为约束机制，例如未能达成目标则向反感的政治候选人捐款 100 至 500 美元）。此外，Ferriss 警示技能习得过程绝非线性上升，过早期待线性回报往往导致在拐点前放弃。 在职业规划与项目选择上，Ferriss 倾向于制定 6 至 12 个月的项目周期，内含 2 至 4 周的短期实验，而非僵化的 5 至 10 年长期规划。他评估项目的双重标准是“人际关系”与“技能积累”，且二者必须独立于项目成败而具备长期复利价值。例如，他早年加入 StumbleUpon 担任顾问，虽然该公司最终停滞，但他与创始人 Garrett Camp 建立了深厚友谊并掌握了流量获取技能；多年后 Camp 创立 UberCab LLC 并邀请 Ferriss 担任早期顾问，将过去的失败经验转化为巨大的商业成果。Ferriss 认为财富与声誉仅是技能和关系积累后的二阶效应，追求目标时应倾听内在“能量”而非模糊的“激情”。 童年性侵创伤、重度抑郁与情感解离的代价 (15:32) Ferriss 坦陈自己帮助他人的强烈动力源自童年创伤。在 2 至 4 岁期间，他每周都遭受保姆儿子的性侵，并保留着清晰的记忆。这一创伤伴随家族遗传因素，导致他从青春期早期便饱受重度抑郁症困扰，过去平均每年经历 3 至 4 次严重发作，每次持续数周或数月，相当于人生约一半时间处于临床抑郁状态。幸存者往往依靠极度的“心理情感解离”来维持功能，这虽然在特种作战或商业长跑中展现为超常的耐受力，但在日常家庭生活中却会演变为严重的情感钝化阻碍。Ferriss 曾长达近 20 年未曾流泪，直至后来才通过系统干预打破这种隔绝状态。 在普林斯顿大学求学期间，严重的孤立与抑郁曾促使他计划自杀，并从图书馆预订了一本关于协助自杀的书籍；由于图书馆将到书通知明信片寄到了父母家中，母亲打来的震惊电话意外瓦解了他的自杀企图。多年后，在一场活动中为一名自杀身亡读者的兄弟签名后，Ferriss 深受触动，撰写并发布了具有广泛影响的博文《关于自杀的一些实用思考》，直接挽救了众多生命。2020 年 9 月，经受其女友关于“若等待太久将错失帮助他人良机”的追问，Ferriss 在 Debbie Millman 的播客中首度公开了童年受虐经历。节目播出后，他发现自己近三分之一的男性挚友私下发来语音倾诉类似的受虐经历，这使他意识到许多表面分散的心理问题，实质上都可以追溯至底层的早期创伤，而现代精神病学在很大程度上仍处于认知机制有限的“黑暗时代”。 生物电医学、代谢疗法与迷走神经刺激 为从根本上解决焦虑、抑郁与难治性精神疾患，Ferriss 总结了四种极具潜力的非药物前沿干预杠杆。首先是生物电医学中的加速经颅磁刺激（TMS），例如斯坦福大学 Nolan Williams 博士推广的方案，通过连续 5 天、每天 10 次、每次 8 分钟的磁刺激，Ferriss 亲身体验后获得了长达 4 至 5 个月的完全无焦虑状态；其次是哈佛大学 Chris Palmer 博士倡导的代谢精神病学，通过严格生酮饮食改变大脑供能方式，利用酮体替代葡萄糖，成功帮助罹患难治性精神分裂症长达十余年的患者在 3 至 6 个月内停药；第三是致幻剂辅助疗法，在 Stanislav Grof 等研究基础上，临床试验表明 MDMA 与裸盖菇素能通过重新打开大脑的关键发育期窗口，使病程 14 至 17 年的严重 PTSD 患者实现超过 50% 的完全缓解率；Ferriss 个人也采用每年 1 个月严格生酮和 1 次 7 天纯水断食作为预防阿尔茨海默病的策略。 第四项前沿技术是迷走神经刺激（VNS）。迷走神经左右各含约 10 万根神经纤维，负责肠道微生物与大脑之间的双向通信。研究显示，将肥胖小鼠的肠道菌群移植给消瘦小鼠会引发肥胖，但若切断迷走神经，消瘦小鼠则保持正常体态，印证了神经电气信号传导的核心地位。目前，一种鱼油胶囊大小、经 FDA 批准的颈部植入设备已被用于类风湿性关节炎、克罗恩病及肠易激综合征等自身免疫疾病的逆转治疗；此外，作用于颈部或外耳甲艇（cymba conchae）的非侵入性电气刺激设备（如处方级 gammaCore）同样表现突出，Ferriss 的一位前特种部队朋友通过每天两次、每次数分钟的颈部刺激，在 2 至 4 周内将其心率变异性（HRV）基线提升了两倍。 数字陷阱、深度关系审计与每年四周迷你退休 在现代生活方式层面，Ferriss 认为孤独感与慢性焦虑的剧增，源于现代人背离了进化生物学，缺乏面对面的真实社交网络。他批评现代约会软件犹如“数字赌场”，运用类似于老虎机的可变奖励机制激发多巴胺循环，造成无休止的“选择悖论”，导致单身人士过度约会（每年 50 至 100 次）却幸福感极低；Ferriss 在经历了 2 至 3 年全职工作般的约会软件体验后彻底退出。步入当前人生阶段，他将重心全面转向长期恋爱关系与家庭建设，认为商业启动或播客产出带来的边际收益已大幅递减。 为了维护高质量的社交支持系统，Ferriss 推行“年度回顾”系统（Past Year Review）。他会系统梳理自己最重要的 5 到 10 个核心人际关系，优先将社交精力倾斜给已有深度连接的亲友，仅在有剩余精力时才拓展新关系，并连续 25 年以上举办夏日好友聚会。作为针对企业家与专业人士的防倦怠机制，Ferriss 提倡每年执行一次强制性的“4 周迷你退休”：在 30 天内彻底脱离工作，禁止使用工作笔记本电脑和工作邮箱，智能手机仅保留打车、地图等基础工具。Ferriss 强调，该练习具备三重价值：为身体和大脑提供长效减载以防职业倦怠、倒逼企业团队建立清晰规则与自主权从而优化运营架构、并作为一项存在主义审计，测试个体在剥离工作后是否依然具备丰富的精神生活与广泛兴趣。 Ferriss 认为许多关于精神疾病的传统假设将在未来十年内被颠覆，生物电刺激与代谢干预有望绕过传统药物穿透血脑屏障的困境。然而，这些尖端科技手段仍需与符合进化规律的现实生活方式相结合，技术必须服务于真实人际连接的修复，而非进一步加剧人与人之间的数字化孤立。

## Background 本期内容由知名播客频道《The Diary Of A CEO》（主持人史蒂文·巴特利特，Steven Bartlett）于2025年11月13日发布在YouTube平台上。节目重点聚焦于畅销书作家兼“身体黑客”蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）的深度专访，根据页面简介，内容涵盖了如何通过迷走神经刺激、心率变异性（HRV）追踪、5天重置方案以及饮食调整等非药物手段，自然缓解焦虑、降低压力并平衡神经系统。 ## TL;DR 在长达一个多小时的深入对谈中，蒂姆·费里斯不仅系统分享了他打磨多年的 DiSS 快速学习模型与以技能、人脉为导向的项目选择法则，还罕见地袒露了自己幼年遭受性侵的隐秘创伤与大学期间濒临自杀的灰暗经历。他结合自身数十年的求索与实验，全面评述了加速经颅磁刺激（TMS）、代谢精神病学生酮干预、致幻剂辅助疗法及迷走神经刺激（VNS）等前沿神经调控手段对身心重塑的惊人效能。最后，蒂姆分享了自己人到中年对亲密关系的渴望、对交友软件“多巴胺赌场”的警惕，以及通过长达25年的老友聚会与每年四周“迷你退休”来维系真实人际连接的生命智慧。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对谈呈现出一种由理性拆解逐渐走向深沉内省的独特张力。前期蒂姆保持着一贯条理分明、直击底层的工程师思维，气氛严密而高效；然而当话题切入童年性侵与自杀边缘的残酷真相时，演播室的空气骤然凝固，流露出毫不掩饰的脆弱、坦诚与道德厚重感。随着后半程转向对前沿生物电医学的兴奋探讨以及对生命终极意义的静心反思，两位新老一代播客领军人之间形成了极为信任的磁场，让听众在感受到严谨科学启迪的同时，体验到直击心灵的情感共振与疗愈暖意。 ## Bulletin - [39:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2345s) 蒂姆·费里斯深入拆解生物电医学的前沿应用，透露加速经颅磁刺激（Accelerated TMS / SAINT 协议）通过连续 5 天的高密度治疗，为他带来了长达 4 至 5 个月的零焦虑清明状态。 - [48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2880s) 迷走神经刺激（VNS）展现出突破性疗效，不仅在自身免疫疾病中取得重大临床进展，非侵入式刺激更帮助长期处于交感神经超负荷的特战老兵实现了心率变异性（HRV）翻倍的跃升。 - [42:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2549s) 代谢精神病学与生酮饮食正改写精神疾病治疗路径，通过为大脑提供酮体这一清洁能源替代葡萄糖，部分严重精神分裂症患者在 3 至 6 个月内成功停药并恢复正常生活。 - [15:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=932s) 蒂姆·费里斯首次深度披露自己 2 至 4 岁遭受持续性侵的童年创伤，指出心理区隔虽曾赋予他超常耐力，但推倒这块根源骨牌才是彻底走出长期抑郁的关键。 ## Key takeaways - [03:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=203s) DiSS 元学习模型由解构（Deconstruction）、筛选（Selection）、排序（Sequencing）和赌注机制（Stakes）构成，其中排序常被忽视，而外部激励惩罚是驱动落地不可或缺的杠杆。 - [07:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=467s) 项目选择应围绕 6 至 12 个月的周期展开，不设僵化的 5 至 10 年规划，核心聚焦在具备跨周期可迁移性的“深度人脉”与“硬核技能”上。 - [11:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=719s) 评估事业或生活方向应摒弃模糊的“激情”，转而以生物学维度的“精力”（Energy）为准绳，观察该活动究竟是给予能量还是消耗能量。 - [12:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=755s) 现代人虽可离开传统宗教，但不可缺失“敬畏与惊奇”（Awe and wonder），诸如 CrossFit 或纯素饮食等风潮本质上充当了现代人的生活方式替代信仰。 - [23:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1417s) 幼年创伤往往在受害者成年心智完备后被“重新情境化”（Recontextualize），原本被封存的高保真记忆会转变为真正的毁灭性冲击。 - [26:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1579s) 心理区隔（Compartmentalization）是一把双刃剑：在极端危机或高压竞争中能赋予个体超常耐力与冷酷专注，但在回归日常家庭时则会演变为严重的情绪障碍。 - [36:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2184s) 现代慢性焦虑与抑郁症的飙升根植于进化断层，人类大脑并非为“孤狼”模式设计，现实中的实体人际交往是解决心理健康问题的首要支点。 - [39:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2345s) 加速经颅磁刺激（Accelerated TMS）将传统数月的疗程浓缩为 5 天高密度磁脉冲干预，在难治性抑郁、焦虑及重度自残青少年病例中展现出惊人的快速逆转效果。 - [43:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2638s) 迷幻药辅助心理治疗通过重新开启大脑发育的“关键期”（Critical Periods），使平均病程达 14 至 17 年的难治性 PTSD 患者取得了超 50% 的完全缓解率。 - [45:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2726s) 迷走神经作为贯穿大脑与外周器官的双向“海底光缆”，通过其电刺激调控免疫反射与肠脑轴，是未来生物电医学取代传统化学药丸的核心突破口。 - [59:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3558s) 现代约会软件采用可变奖励机制打造多巴胺赌场，制造无尽滑动的“选择悖论”，导致人们陷入无法建立严肃亲密关系的成瘾内耗。 - [01:06:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3967s) 创始人与知识工作者应每年强制执行为期四周的“迷你退休”，彻底断联不仅能让高压神经系统深层减负，更能倒逼企业运营系统建立去中心化的自主决策准则。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=0s) 精神健康的前沿探索与个人创伤的阴影 现代社会中，各种心理健康疾患的诊断率正节节攀升。蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）坦言，自己从小到大每年都会经历多次抑郁发作，这促使他长期与顶尖科学家合作，并把自己的身体和大脑当作实验室，全力寻找能够直击病灶根源的解决方案。在诸多尝试中，有两项前沿干预手段带来了颠覆性的改变：一是脑部神经刺激技术，在接受治疗后，他体会到了长达数月毫无焦虑感的平静；二是迷走神经刺激（Vagus Nerve Stimulation），一位过去30年间论文引用率极高的顶尖学者在该领域发现了惊人的多重健康益处。作为主持了超过800期深度播客访谈的性能优化专家，蒂姆不仅在研究生产力与身体机能，更在探索如何治愈人类最隐秘的创伤。 当主持人史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）问及人们最应该向他请教什么时，蒂姆认为核心在于“如何拆解复杂学科并实现加速学习”，因为时间是不可再生的终极资产。然而，大众真正渴望向他打探的，往往是关于心理健康的沉重话题。蒂姆感到自己有一种道德责任去分享这些经验，因为他童年时期曾遭受保姆儿子的长期性虐待，其频率甚至达到每周一次；成年后，他也曾一度在自杀边缘徘徊。他深切体会过那种被痛苦囚禁的无力感，但也通过亲身实践证明，这些深层创伤可以通过系统性的方法一步步消解，甚至能够“把曾经的痛苦转化为疗愈自己的良药”。 ### [02:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=153s) 自我定位：自我实验者、学生与导师 在探讨具体的技能与方法前，史蒂文指出蒂姆的涉猎范围极其宽广，从商业投资、身体黑客到极限技能习得，几乎无法用任何单一职业标签来定义。面对关于自我认同与人生使命的追问，蒂姆给出了一个极具秩序感的自画像：他按先后顺序将自己定义为“自我实验者（Self-experimenter）、学生（Student）和导师（Teacher）”。 蒂姆认为，自己的终极目标是在极度复杂的知识海洋中提炼出纯粹的极简主义。无论是面对高深晦涩的学术前沿，还是纷繁混乱的生活技能，他的使命都是将其拆解、重构，最终封装成一套低风险且具有高确定性回报的“算法”或“操作配方”，让普通人拿来就能测试并从中获益。 ### [03:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=203s) 元学习体系：DiSS 快速技能习得模型 身处技术爆炸与环境骤变的时代，各行各业的人都不得不面临技能重塑的挑战。针对如何高效“学会如何学习”（Meta-learning），蒂姆分享了他打磨多年的经典四步法则——**DiSS 框架**： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: DiSS 元学习框架 accDescr: 展现从解构、筛选、排序到惩罚激励机制的四步技能加速学习闭环。 subgraph Phase1 ["认知拆解与聚焦"] D["<b>D - Deconstruction（解构）</b><br>将宏大目标拆为微观组件<br>借助世界级专家低成本借脑"] S1["<b>S - Selection（筛选）</b><br>运用帕累托 80/20 法则<br>锁定产生最大收益的核心材料"] end subgraph Phase2 ["执行路径与行为驱动"] S2["<b>S - Sequencing（排序）</b><br>找出最符合认知与动作规律的先后顺序<br>如：学游泳先练水下滑行而非换气"] S3["<b>S - Stakes（赌注）</b><br>设定高压外部奖惩（如对赌捐款）<br>以确定性机制驱动习惯落地"] end D --> S1 S1 --> S2 S2 --> S3 ``` - **D - 解构（Deconstruction）**：将模糊庞大的愿景拆分为细小的基本单元。蒂姆以“学会游泳”或“掌握日语”为例，指出这些表述因过于空泛而无法执行。有效的做法是将其拆解为极其具象的物理机制或语法模块。如果自学感到迷茫，普通人甚至能以每小时50至100美元的极低成本，在 Zoom 上连线两届以前的奥运会银牌得主，直接请教顶尖高手如何拆分该项运动的核心环节。 - **S - 筛选（Selection）**：依托帕累托法则（80/20 法则），只挑出那20%能带来80%成效的关键知识。例如在语言学习中，英语或西班牙语拥有数十万词汇，但只要利用词频表精准掌握使用频率最高的1500个单词，配合科学方法，任何人都能在8到12周内建立起流利的日常会话能力。 - **S - 排序（Sequencing）**：这是常常被人忽略的“秘密酱料”。即使拿到了正确的学习材料，学习顺序颠倒也会导致全盘皆输。蒂姆再次以游泳举例：初学者绝不该急着练习抬头换气，而应当在浅水区先练熟左右机身流线型姿态（Fuselage）、蹬壁滑行以及头部浸入水中的放松感。 - **S - 赌注与激励（Stakes）**：行动力的关键从来不是掌握更多信息，“如果仅仅靠信息就能解决问题，那全世界所有人早就都是拥有六块腹肌的亿万富翁了”。良好的意愿和完美的系统都不可靠，必须引入切实的外部利益捆绑。比如把500美元交给朋友，约定如果自己没有达成预定训练目标，这笔钱就会以自己的名义捐赠给自己最厌恶的政客。 蒂姆特别提醒，掌握任何技能的过程绝非一条从左下到右上平滑上升的直线，而是充满了停滞期与挫折波谷。若没有提前做好应对平台期的心理建设，99%的人都会在真正迎来爆发式转折点（Inflection Point）的前夜抱憾放弃。 ### [07:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=467s) 项目选择法则：以可迁移的人脉与技能为罗盘 当被问及如何从无尽的机遇中挑选出真正值得投入的目标时，蒂姆直言自己从不制定所谓5年或10年的长期职业规划。在他看来，一份能被精确执行的5到10年规划，必然局限在个人已知能力的舒适圈内，这无异于画地为牢、低估了自己的潜能。 蒂姆的核心方法论是以“**6至12个月的项目**”为基本执行周期，并在其间穿插为期2至4周的高频微型实验。在筛选项目时，他只关注两个决定性维度：**人脉（Relationships）**与**硬核技能（Skills）**，且这两者必须具备跨越项目生命周期的**可迁移性**： - **StumbleUpon 的投资教训与人脉沉淀**：多年前，蒂姆担任了网页推荐平台 StumbleUpon 的顾问。该产品在当时堪称“网页版 Pandora”，导流能力极强。虽然一两年后这个项目陷入停滞，但蒂姆在过程中与创始人加勒特·坎普（Garrett Camp）结成了挚友，同时摸透了互联网流量的底层分配逻辑，甚至将自己的个人博客打造成了流量实验阵地。 - **孕育超级独角兽的连带红利**：即使 StumbleUpon 最终归零，蒂姆也未尝败绩。几年后，加勒特发短信约他见面，讨论如何解决旧金山的打车难题，那个当时名为“UberCab LLC”的雏形项目，正是后来颠覆全球出行市场的 Uber。蒂姆顺理成章地成为了 Uber 的早期顾问。蒂姆强调，自己至少能列举出十几个类似案例：哪怕初始项目彻底失败，但只要积累了能够迁移的核心能力与高质量人脉，未来的非对称收益就早已注定。 ### [09:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=589s) 抵御厄运的系统与“多米诺骨牌”法则 主持人提问：一个人在人生的不同阶段（无论是十八岁身无分文的年轻人，还是功成名就的蒂姆·费里斯），是否应当采用相同的底层思维框架来挑选项目？蒂姆的本能反应是肯定的。他解释道，“幸运女神”（Lady Fortune）在现实世界中扮演着举足轻重的角色，世间有太多不可控因素。无论你选择玩哪一场游戏，都必须构建一套能够扛得住“一连串厄运”的系统。只要在单次项目（尤其是财务上）不过度押注、不孤注一掷，事情就会随着时间如滚雪球般产生复利效应；只要有微弱的优势和足够长的时间，大数法则和统计规律就会站在你这一边。 谈到资源、人脉、名誉与技能之间的权重，蒂姆指出，名誉往往只是“二阶效应”（Second-order effects）。如果你专注于优化核心人际关系与掌握硬核技能，声誉通常会水到渠成。这就像排列多米诺骨牌：必须先推倒最前端的小骨牌，依靠链式反应撞倒更大的骨牌。如果按照一年做两个、每个周期六个月的节奏去积累，长期的复利是非常惊人的。因此，人要有底气选择“长线贪婪”（Long-term greedy），而非“短线贪婪”。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 长期复利与多米诺骨牌决策模型 accDescr: 展示技能与关系作为牵引骨牌，驱动长期复利并自然带来声誉等二阶效应的流程图。 subgraph Core["底层输入 (牵引骨牌)"] A["核心技能积累"] B["深度人际关系"] end subgraph Process["系统防御机制"] C["避免过度押注<br/>抵御极端厄运"] D["大数法则与时间复利"] end subgraph Outcome["长线结果 (二阶效应)"] E["行业名誉与影响力"] F["持续的抗脆弱收益"] end A --> C B --> C C --> D D --> E D --> F ``` ### [11:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=719s) 摒弃“激情”，专注生理维度的“精力” 针对普遍被推崇的“激情”（Passion），蒂姆表达了不同看法。他认为“激情”是一个极其模糊且被滥用的词汇——它可以指床笫之欢，也可以指《耶稣受难记》（The Passion of the Christ）中的宗教受难。蒂姆更偏好使用“精力”（Energy）这个词，因为这是一个清晰的、几乎等同于生物生理状态的指标。 在评估事物时，问题可以变得非常直观：这项活动让你更加清醒，还是昏昏欲睡？你觉得自已能一口气再干五个小时，还是十五分钟后就想立刻停下？这种生物学层面的生理反馈简单直接，能让人快速做出非黑即白的真实判断，远比空谈抽象的“追随激情”更具指导意义。 ### [12:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=755s) 意义感、人造信仰与“敬畏之心” 随着科学的发展，人类解开了诸如日食之类的自然奥秘，不必再像维京人那样向天空投掷长矛以为神明降怒，但这也带来了现代性的虚无感、不可知论与无神论。蒂姆认为，人类天生需要确定性与信仰；即便是坚信“不信”，本身也是一种信念体系。然而，若想获得对心理健康至关重要的“自我超越感”（Self-transcendence），人类并不一定需要传统宗教。 蒂姆指出，没有宗教的人生依然可以非常美妙，但**没有“敬畏与惊奇”（Awe and wonder）的人生绝不可能真正幸福**。幸运的是，敬畏感是完全可以通过生活设计、刻意安排来主动构建的。诸如纯素饮食（Veganism）或 CrossFit 健身等当代生活方式之所以能够风靡全球，正是因为它们在本质上充当了现代人的“替代宗教”：拥有明确的行为戒律、社群认同、自我强化机制，以及被信徒追随的意见领袖（例如曾经的 CrossFit 创始人格雷格·格拉斯曼）。除了没有宗教这个标签本身，它们具备了传统宗教所有的大众集体行为要素。 ### [14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=883s) 救赎者情结与童年性侵创伤的浮现 当主持人顺势追问蒂姆内心究竟在“崇拜”什么时，蒂姆坦白了他长期以来的内心挣扎：他总有一种想要拯救他人的道德负罪感与“救世主情结”（Savior complex）。因为自己过去承受过巨大痛苦，他觉得自己拥有独特的体验与视角，在与同样身处痛苦中的人交流时具有切实的公信力。但这极易演变成一种沉重且具破坏性的自我负担，甚至不惜以牺牲自己的身心健康为代价去履行这种道德义务。 在主持人的追问下，蒂姆触碰了那块最早倒下的多米诺骨牌。他平静而勇敢地披露了极其隐秘的童年创伤：在两岁到四岁期间，他每周都会遭到保姆儿子的性侵犯。那些记忆在他脑海中极为清晰。这段幼年时期的创伤从根本上塑造了他的人格——剥夺了他的掌控感，促使他形成了极度的“过度警觉”（Hypervigilance），并且变得极难轻易信任他人。 ### [16:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=982s) 重度抑郁的深渊与现代医学疗法 童年创伤叠加家族遗传的重度抑郁症易感基因，使蒂姆从青春期早期开始便陷入长期的心理炼狱。在很长一段时间里，他每年平均会遭遇三到四次、每次持续数周乃至数月的重度抑郁发作——这意味着他人生近一半的时间都处于抑郁的阴霾之中。 然而，蒂姆强调这一切并非无解。通过多年探索，他如今的抑郁状态已经降低到每两至三年才可能出现一次仅持续数周的发作。两种人生状态的反差犹如天壤之别。他指出，一系列前沿的科学手段能够切实带来持久的改变： - **代谢精神病学（Metabolic Psychiatry）**：通过改善脑部与身体代谢调节精神状态。 - **致幻剂辅助心理治疗（Psychedelic-assisted Therapy）**：在专业引导下重塑大脑神经连接。 - **生物电医学与加速经颅磁刺激（Bioelectric Medicine & Accelerated TMS）**：针对特定脑区进行物理磁刺激调控。 这些工具虽然不是“一劳永逸”的万灵药，但能让患者摆脱被创伤完全俘虏的瘫痪状态，甚至让过往的痛苦转化为前进的动力。 ### [18:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1085s) “把痛苦化为良药”：秘密的公开与意外的共鸣 大约五六年前，一位优秀的心理治疗师曾对蒂姆说：“把那些痛苦变成你药方的一部分（Take the pain and make it part of your medicine）。”没有任何借口可以为施害者开脱，但受害者可以决定将这份痛苦转化为奉献给世界的价值。此前，蒂姆深藏这个秘密长达数十年，全世界仅有两位相处了五六年的前女友知晓，连他的父母都对此一无所知。蒂姆原本打算等父母百年之后再写书倾诉，以免父母陷入自责。 转折发生在新冠疫情期间。当时的伴侣在饭桌上一针见血地提醒他：“你有没有想过，在你写出那本书之前的十年十五年里，会有多少人因为疫情、意外或自然原因离世？想想那些本可以被你帮助却未能得到帮助的人吧。”这番话彻底击中了蒂姆。 为了尝试迈出第一步，蒂姆联系了好友——纽约知名播客《Design Matters》主持人戴比·米尔曼（Debbie Millman）。米尔曼此前曾向蒂姆坦白过自己童年遭遇性侵的经历。蒂姆自知无法通过单口独白的方式倾诉，便请求米尔曼以对谈的形式帮他记录下来，并在录音前说明自己并不确定这期音频是否会公开发布。最终，这期对谈于2020年9月正式上线。节目播出后引发了巨大的震动，最令蒂姆震惊的不是冷冰冰的统计数据，而是现实中身边的回响：他身边有四分之一到三分之一的挚友破天荒地主动联络他，第一次向他人坦白自己年幼时也曾遭受过某种形式的性侵犯。 ### [21:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1270s) 公开童年创伤后的反响与精神医学的局限 蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）回忆，当他最初公开自己童年遭受性侵的经历后，收到的反馈比例令人震惊。尽管他自认有极强的心理承受力，但面对海量涌入的信息依然承受了巨大的心理冲击——许多从未向任何人吐露过秘密的男性发来声泪俱下的语音备忘录，巨细靡遗地讲述当年发生的惨痛细节。这让他心如刀绞，他甚至记得自己曾在自家车道上一边来回踱步一边泪流满面，而他平时几乎从不流泪。这股扑面而来的残酷现实，也让他瞬间看清了许多朋友身上过去无法解释的谜团。回顾自身，费里斯曾以为自己面临着六七个彼此独立的心理和情绪挑战，并试图逐一攻克；然而当他终于有勇气“戴上防毒面具、深入地下室”直面当年的虐待时，才发现所有问题都深植于同一个根源。 费里斯直言，现代精神医学在许多方面仍处于“黑暗时代”，其现状就像300年前的外科手术一样原始；但即便我们尚不清楚其深层机制，仍有一些工具能够切实帮助到许多人。他特别提到了由理查德·施瓦茨（Dick Schwartz）创立的“内部家庭系统疗法”（Internal Family Systems, IFS）、针对创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）的 MDMA 辅助心理治疗，以及家庭系统排列（Family Constellation Therapy）。与此同时，费里斯坚决反对任何粉饰苦难的“毒鸡汤”：“如果能按 Ctrl+Z 彻底撤销那段经历，我会百分之百选择抹掉它。”他无法认同所谓的“因祸得福”，那场创伤造成了毁灭性的破坏，唯一的价值在于赋予了他在面对相同遭遇的幸存者时真实而有分量的发声资格。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 创伤应对与心理机制演变 accDescr: 展示从童年创伤到心理区隔，再到记忆重构与情绪复苏的演变路径。 subgraph Phase1["创伤与防御机制"] A["早期创伤 / 虐待事件"] --> B["高保真记忆被埋藏"] A --> C["心理区隔能力 / 极高痛阈"] end subgraph Phase2["认知与机制重塑"] B --> D["认知成熟：高保真记忆重新情境化"] C --> E["现实脱节：保护伞演变为生活障碍"] end subgraph Phase3["危机与深层疗愈"] D & E --> F["情绪重新上线 / 精神崩溃边缘"] F --> G["暂停一切事务：深入底层根源疗愈"] end ``` ### [23:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1417s) 幼年创伤的机制：高保真记忆与“重新情境化” 主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）提出了一个深层疑问：费里斯受害时年仅两到四岁，在这样一个根本无法理解成年人行为本质与语境的幼小年龄，伤害究竟是如何在婴儿或幼儿的大脑中扎根并起效的？费里斯坦言目前尚无任何科学家能够给出极具确定性的标准答案，但他结合自身经历给出了独特的解释：他兼具“幸运与诅咒”般的高保真记忆力，几乎能凭一次记忆绘制出所有去过的建筑或餐厅平面图。对于年幼的孩子来说，最初经历的只是一场困惑而怪异的“侮辱与伤害”；然而随着年龄增长、对世界的认知逐渐完备，这些被完整封存的清晰记忆会被“重新情境化”（Recontextualize）。当心智成熟的个体重新审视当年的细节，才会猛然意识到那不仅仅是“古怪”，而是赤裸裸的剥削与侵害。 巴特利特对此深表认同，并引用了著名神经科学家丽莎·费德曼·巴瑞特（Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett）分享过的一个个案：一名曾遭叔叔虐待的年轻女性多年来过着正常生活，睡眠与健康均无异常；直到某天她在《奥普拉秀》（Oprah）中看到受虐女性的访谈，瞬间将自己当年的遭遇重新情境化，自那一天起，她便全面爆发了睡眠障碍和各种典型的创伤应激症状。这证明了创伤的破坏力往往在认知完成“重构”后才彻底显现。 ### [26:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1579s) 心理区隔的双刃剑：超能力抑或重度残疾 费里斯深入剖析了创伤幸存者普遍具备的一种生存策略——心理区隔（Compartmentalization）。他指出，在最精锐的特种部队中，童年遭受过虐待的人员比例异常之高。在混乱、死亡悬于一线的极端战斗环境中，能够抽离自我、以近乎局外人观察者视角执行任务的心理区隔能力，无疑是一种不可思议的“超能力”；但当这些老兵回归平民生活与家庭时，这种冷漠的区隔机制就瞬间变成了致命的残疾和破坏者。对于普通受虐者而言同样如此，有些人选择将记忆彻底深锁在潜意识之下，或者干脆选择绝不回首、全力向前。费里斯强调，他并不认为每个人都必须穿上防化服去深挖过去的每一桩烂事，强行挖掘有时反而会因无法改变过去而让人陷入极度绝望；向前看本身也是一种完全可行的应对策略。 回顾自己的前半生，费里斯承认这种心理区隔曾带给他巨大的竞争优势： - 在竞技体育和高强度工作中，他的耐力和坚韧程度远超常人。 - 他的身体与心理痛苦耐受阈值极高，能够硬扛常人无法忍受的压力。 - 但其代价是“情绪被彻底灼烧封死”，剥夺了体验诸多核心情感的能力。 ### [28:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1737s) 情绪重返上线与推倒第一块多米诺骨牌 尽管费里斯认为大众目前对迷幻药物的潜力存在过度吹捧，但他承认，正是迷幻体验打破了他长达20年的麻木状态，让其冰封的情绪彻底“重新上线”。在此之前，他长达二十年未曾流泪；而在疗程之后，他甚至会在飞机上看一部令人心碎的纪录片时突然潸然泪下，惊觉情绪系统的复苏。然而，情绪的苏醒也顺带激活了那些沉睡的高保真记忆，引发了一场几乎让他无法继续正常工作与生活的精神崩溃。 面对这场危机，费里斯意识到童年创伤就是被推倒的“第一块多米诺骨牌”： - 以往的心理调整都只是在船体不断进水时盲目补洞，却从未探寻水到底从何而来。 - 他毅然决定取消所有外部事务与工作安排，腾出整整六个月时间，专心解决这一最底层的根源问题。 - 将这段痛苦的“探险与误入歧途”转化为书籍、博客与播客内容，成为了他提取人生价值的最佳心理疗愈手段。 费里斯特别提到了他在个人网站上整理的公开资源库（tim.blog/trauma），其中收录了他与播客搭档黛比·米尔曼（Debbie Millman）关于童年创伤的艰难对话及双方迥异的应对工具箱。此外，他谈及自己写过最艰难也最自豪的博文《关于自杀的一些实用思考》（*Some Practical Thoughts on Suicide*）。据他确切所知，这篇文章直接挽救了数百人的生命。文章详细记录了他在大学期间险些自杀的真实经历——当时他已在日历上定好了确切死期，而最终得以幸存，仅仅是靠着一丝极其偶然的运气。当时他正处于大学休学期，同学们陆续毕业离校，室友们全职上班，他陷入了极度的社会隔离与孤独之中。 ### [32:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1958s) 一张寄错地址的借书明信片：从自杀边缘到写下反思 蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）回忆起自己在普林斯顿大学读大四时的灰暗经历。当时他正深陷于毕业论文的压力中，整天闭门不出，心理状态极度恶化。他在普林斯顿大学的费尔斯通图书馆（Firestone Library）预约了一本关于协助自杀的书籍。当时这本书非常抢手已被借出；按照当年的图书借阅系统规则，一旦书籍归还，图书馆会向教务处系统登记的地址邮寄一张实体明信片通知取书。然而，蒂姆当时并未将登记地址更新为校外公寓，结果那张写着“好消息，您借阅的关于协助自杀的书籍已送达费尔斯通图书馆”的明信片，直接寄到了他父母家中。 这张意外寄达的明信片将他瞬间拽回了现实。在此之前，蒂姆本计划将死亡伪装成一场意外，但明信片的曝光剥夺了他的“合理推诿借口”（plausible deniability），让他猛然意识到这件事绝不仅仅关乎自己一人，回想起来他感到万分庆幸。母亲颤抖着声音致电质问他为何预约这种书，蒂姆当时撒谎称是罗格斯大学（Rutgers）的朋友做研究托他借阅，但他深知自己的计划已经败露，这一刻成为了他生命的转折点。1999 年的那次危机后，他彻底转向百分之百投入体能训练。 促使他最终公开这段秘密的契机发生在数年后。在杰森·卡拉卡尼斯（Jason Calacanis）主持的 This Week in Startups 现场活动上，一位衣着得体、举止体面的男士在活动后排队找他签名。这位男士买了两本书，一本给自己，另一本请蒂姆签给他弟弟。当蒂姆询问要写什么寄语时，对方突然愣住僵在那里。蒂姆体贴地提议等人群散去后再处理。随后两人走向电梯时，对方才坦白解释：他的弟弟已经自杀身亡，生前是蒂姆文字的忠实粉丝，家人至今完好保留着弟弟的房间，他想把签好名的书放进房间里。那位男士对蒂姆说：“你有没有想过聊聊心理健康？许多人在听你的声音，你真的能帮助到很多人。” 这句话深深触动了蒂姆。面对公众巨大的倾听影响力，他深感自己有责任写出真相。他花了一个多月时间反复撰写、推敲并邀请朋友校对那篇博客长文《关于自杀的一些实用思考》（Some Practical Thoughts on Suicide）。在文章发布前，他不得不硬着头皮先给家人打电话“打预防针”，因为父母虽然知道当年图书馆借书一事，但全然不知他曾距离死亡如此之近。 ### [36:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2184s) 现代心理健康危机与人类进化的“孤狼”错觉 蒂姆指出，自杀倾向和精神痛苦在人群中普遍得令人震惊。这种极高的发生率一方面令人深感不安，但另一方面也能带来一种释怀——它证明身处痛苦中的人绝非孤立无援，也绝不是自身存在不可救药的独特缺陷（"You're not uniquely flawed"），这种状态并非不可逆转或永久不变。回顾过去 10 年在他的受众中观察到的趋势，几乎所有心理健康障碍的发生曲线都在呈“曲棍球棒式”（hockey stick）急剧飙升：慢性焦虑、难治性抑郁、肥胖以及往往是自我封闭造成的严重孤独感。 面对这些盘根错节的问题，蒂姆主张不能只头痛医头、脚痛医脚地给互相关联的症状贴创可贴，而必须从根源去探究： - **演化生物学的硬编码**：从进化生物学角度来看，人类从来没有被设计成孤立生存的“孤狼”（lone wolf）。现代人若遭遇心理困境，最简单的校准法就是退回到几百年前人类祖先的生存基准。 - **实体人际交往的基石作用**：现实生活中的人际互动与模拟接触（analog human interaction）是解决心理问题的头号支点。击中这一个目标，往往能顺带化解许多其他问题；否则，人们就只能陷入无休止的“打地鼠”式症状应对之中。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 心理健康干预层次结构 accDescr: 展示从基础的演化人际连结到前沿物理与代谢干预的逐级治疗路径 subgraph Ground["基础生活方式基准"] A["演化生物学对齐<br/>（拒绝孤狼模式）"] --> B["真实实体人际接触<br/>（核心支点，避免打地鼠）"] end subgraph Advanced["针对难治性症状的高阶干预"] B --> C["生物电医学：加速 TMS<br/>（高频磁刺激神经调控）"] B --> D["代谢精神病学：生酮干预<br/>（酮体清洁能源与线粒体修复）"] end ``` ### [39:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2345s) 前沿生物电医学：加速经颅磁刺激（Accelerated TMS） 当解决人际连结后依然存在顽固的慢性焦虑、强迫症（OCD）、精神分裂症或边缘型人格障碍时，蒂姆强烈推崇生物电医学（bioelectric medicine），尤其是名为**加速经颅磁刺激**（Accelerated TMS, 亦称 SAINT 方案）的神经刺激技术。作为从小每年都会经历多次严重抑郁发作的长期患者，蒂姆亲自尝试并深入研究了该领域，斯坦福大学的诺兰·威廉姆斯博士（Dr. Nolan Williams）是这一技术前沿的领军人物。 加速 TMS 采用磁脉冲靶向刺激大脑，体感类似于有人用手指轻轻弹击头部侧面，具有极佳的安全记录和极其微小的副作用： - **高密度强化协议**：传统 TMS 往往需要数月时间、每周进行 2 至 3 次，而加速 TMS 协议将疗程极度浓缩为**连续 5 天，每天 10 次**。患者每个小时接受约 8 分钟刺激，每天累计治疗长达 10 小时。 - **临床震撼案例**：蒂姆提到朋友一名 14 岁有严重自残、割腕行为的孩子，父母在两三年间每天都生活在接到孩子自杀噩耗的恐慌中。在接受加速 TMS 治疗仅 3 天后，该少年就奇迹般地恢复至患病前的健康状态；配合每 3 至 6 个月一次的巩固治疗（booster），疗效极为持久。 - **个人体验与疗效对比**：蒂姆自身在接受治疗后，获得了长达 4 到 5 个月完全没有任何焦虑的清明状态，“宛如被魔杖轻轻一点，所有杂音彻底消失，感觉如同坚持了一整年每天冥想两次”。他认为其起效幅度与持久度不仅不输给致幻剂辅助疗法，在某些指标上甚至犹有过之。 ### [42:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2549s) 代谢精神病学与脑部退行性病变预防 除了物理刺激神经回路，蒂姆探讨的另一个关键治疗杠杆是**代谢精神病学**（Metabolic Psychiatry），该领域由哈佛大学的克里斯·帕尔默博士（Dr. Chris Palmer）在近年大力倡导，核心聚焦于通过严格的生酮饮食（Ketogenic Diet）重塑大脑代谢环境。 - **难治性精神分裂症的扭转**：临床上已有服药长达十年、尝试过 15 种不同抗精神病药物的严重精神分裂症患者，在采用严格生酮饮食后的 3 到 6 个月内完全停掉了全部药物，并持续保持正常生活。其核心机制在于通过酮体为大脑神经元供给高纯度、稳定的“清洁能源”，从而稳定脑代谢与神经递质平衡。 - **阿尔茨海默病与神经退行性疾病预防**：由于家族中有三位亲属罹患阿尔茨海默病，蒂姆在基因层面上具有高度患病倾向。为了强化线粒体健康、促进自噬清除非正常蛋白斑块并延缓神经退化，他将生酮与断食作为主动防御策略： - 每年执行为期一个月的严格生酮饮食（亦可配合外源性酮体补充剂）。 - 每年尝试进行一次为期一周的纯水断食（water-only fasting）。 - 他强调，大量临床证据显示，对于具有高度阿尔茨海默病遗传易感性的人群而言，这些代谢调节手段是非常值得严肃考量的防病干预措施。 ### [43:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2638s) 迷幻药辅助治疗与大脑“关键期”的重新开启 谈及应对心理创伤的现代疗法时，蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）高度评价了迷幻药辅助心理治疗（Psychedelic-assisted therapy）的颠覆性潜力。他引用了著名精神治疗学家斯坦尼斯拉夫·格罗夫（Stanislav Grof）的名言：“望远镜之于天文学，显微镜之于生物学，迷幻药之于人类心智。”费里斯认为这一论断毫无夸张之处，因为在针对难治性创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）的临床试验中，参与者平均病程长达 14 至 17 年且尝试过所有传统疗法皆告失败，然而仅在接受两到三次迷幻药辅助治疗后，就有超过 50% 的患者达到了创伤完全缓解（Complete Remission）。这种惊人的临床效果正以极其积极的方式迫使医学界反思精神病学与传统处方药物的基本假设。 费里斯指出，这类疗法有望从根源上解决心理疾病，而非仅仅掩盖症状。他引述了加州大学伯克利分校（原任职于约翰斯·霍普金斯大学）神经科学家居尔·德伦（Gül Dölen）的研究：迷幻药具有重新开启大脑发育“关键期”（Critical Periods）的能力。这种神经可塑性的重置不仅对心理创伤意义重大，未来甚至可能用于脑卒中（中风）患者重新学习运动控制等神经康复领域。 - **格罗夫的比喻**：迷幻药对理解人类意识与潜意识的作用，正如显微镜和望远镜革新生物学与天文学一样深远。 - **难治性 PTSD 数据**：病程 14–17 年的极端患者，经过 2–3 次疗程后，临床完全缓解率突破 50%。 - **神经机制前沿**：通过居尔·德伦发现的重开大脑“关键发育期”机制，为中风运动机能重建和深层创伤愈合提供了全新途径。 --- ### [45:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2726s) 迷走神经刺激（VNS）：解构身体内的“跨大西洋电缆” 除了加速经颅磁刺激（TMS）和代谢精神病学之外，费里斯分享了他目前正在深入钻研的另一前沿领域——迷走神经刺激（Vagus Nerve Stimulation, 简称 VNS）。他直言，如今市面上充斥着大量打着迷走神经旗号的“伪科学垃圾”，但抛开营销炒作，其真正的硬核科学却极其令人震撼。迷走神经（Vagus nerve）虽然常被用单数指代，但实质上是两条对称的主神经束，从脑干向下延伸，穿过颈部两侧紧贴颈动脉（Carotid artery）走行，如同两条连接大脑与全身的“跨大西洋海底光缆”。 每一侧迷走神经包含大约 10 万根神经纤维，人类目前仅了解其中极小一部分的功能。它们下行支配并连接几乎所有胸腹部重要器官，尤其是肠道。肠道微生物组与大脑之间错综复杂的“肠脑轴”双向通信，绝大部分正是通过迷走神经实现的。费里斯推崇该领域公认的科学权威凯文·特雷西博士（Dr. Kevin J. Tracey，生物电子医学先驱），并推荐了他撰写的入门经典《伟大神经》（*The Great Nerve*）。特雷西博士参与创立的公司研发出一种仅有深海鱼油胶囊大小的颈部植入电极，在数周前刚刚荣登《纽约时报》头条。该植入设备已被批准用于治疗类风湿性关节炎（Rheumatoid Arthritis），其临床效果堪称科幻：原本因慢性疲劳长期卧床、无法工作甚至无力与孩子互动的重症患者，在植入两周后竟能飞奔爬上楼梯赶赴欧洲旅行的火车，甚至面临“精力过剩”的新烦恼。这项技术在克罗恩病（Crohn's disease）与肠易激综合征（IBS）等自身免疫性疾病中同样展现了极其广阔的前景。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Vagus Nerve Signaling Pathway accDescr: 迷走神经从脑干发出，沿颈部双侧下行调控全身免疫系统与肠脑轴的双向连接机制。 subgraph Central ["中枢系统"] BS["脑干 (Brain Stem)"] end subgraph Pathway ["传输通道：迷走神经 (约10万根纤维/侧)"] VN["沿颈动脉下行 (颈部两侧)"] end subgraph Organs ["外周靶向与临床调节"] Heart["心血管系统<br/>大幅提升心率变异性 (HRV)"] Immune["免疫反射回路<br/>抑制全身炎症 (类风湿/克罗恩病)"] Gut["肠道微生物组<br/>双向调控肠脑轴通讯"] end BS --> VN VN --> Heart VN --> Immune VN --> Gut ``` --- ### [48:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2880s) 非侵入式 VNS 实验与心率变异性（HRV）的翻倍飞跃 在谈及迷走神经与自主神经调节时，费里斯提到了其对心率变异性（Heart Rate Variability, HRV）的深远影响。他讲述了一位前一线特种作战人员（Tier 1 Operator）好友的真实案例：该朋友长期处于极度的“交感神经兴奋超载”（Sympathetic Overdrive）状态，睡眠严重受损。为了自救，他尝试了极其复杂的呼吸训练法和冷水暴露（冰浴），收效仅有 10% 到 15% 的边际改善；即便坚持每天打坐冥想两次，HRV 的增幅也停留在 10%–15% 左右。然而，当这位朋友开始使用迷走神经刺激两到四周后，他的 HRV 竟然直接暴增了两倍（变为原来的三倍），彻底打破了生理瓶颈。 当史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）好奇追问具体刺激方式时，费里斯详细说明了两种主要的非侵入式途径： 1. **经皮颈部迷走神经刺激**：朋友使用的是一款处方级手持设备 gammaCore。该设备直接按压在颈部脉搏搏动处，进行极其短暂的电刺激（每次约 2 到 5 分钟，每日两次）。该设备在已发表的医学文献中主要被批准用于偏头痛（Migraines）和丛集性头痛（Cluster Headaches）的治疗。 2. **经耳迷走神经刺激（Auricular VNS）**：拥有更多公开科研文献支撑的方案是耳部刺激，精准作用于外耳部的耳甲艇（Cymba conchae）区域。 费里斯透露，自己目前正在同时亲自试验耳部和颈部两种刺激方案，迷走神经刺激已成为他当下健康探索中最核心的关注点之一。 --- ### [50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3000s) 品牌赞助插播：Bon Charge、SimpliSafe 与 Apple Mac 在此节点，节目穿插了三则品牌合作赞助： 1. **Bon Charge 红光理疗**：史蒂文·巴特利特分享称，自己最初在圣诞节为女友购买了一台 Bon Charge 红光面罩面板，随后自己成为该品牌的忠实拥趸。该产品利用近红外光穿透人体组织，主打淡化皱纹疤痕、促进胶原蛋白再生以及加速机体损伤恢复。他最常用的产品是红光面膜与红外线桑拿毯（Infrared sauna blanket）。听众访问 `bondcharge.com/diary` 输入专属优惠码 `diary` 可获得套装 30% 优惠或全场 25% 折扣，产品支持一年质保。史蒂文还打趣称，深夜看到团队成员戴着发光的红光面罩坐在工位上，场面格外吓人。 2. **SimpliSafe 智能安防**：史蒂文讲述了助理索菲（Sophie）为其洛杉矶新居寻找安防系统的经历。市面上绝大多数产品属于“事后警报”，而 SimpliSafe 配备 AI 视觉监控与全天候人工坐席。一旦发现可疑人员潜行，人工安保人员会通过扬声器直接对其喊话施压，必要时引爆炸鸣警报、打开强光探照灯并即时联系 911 报警派遣警力。平台无长期合约绑定，支持 60 天无理由退款，听众访问 `simplysafe.com/doac` 可立省 60%。 3. **Apple Mac**：史蒂文深情回忆了《CEO日记》（The Diary of a CEO）的诞生史。当年节目毫无资金与资源，仅仅起源于一个念头、一支廉价外置麦克风以及他膝头上的一台 Mac 电脑。他在被窝里完成了第一期录制，随后用 Mac 剪辑了数小时才上传上线。从最初只有几十名听众，到如今全球数千万人收听，录制环境已升级为顶级演播厅，但唯一不变的是史蒂文及其团队至今全员使用 Mac 创作。 --- ### [53:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3190s) 未来十年的健康大趋势：从被动医疗到环境微量监控 广告结束后，史蒂文将话题拉回前瞻趋势。他向费里斯提问：凭借费里斯非凡的好奇心、学习框架以及跨学科洞察力，除去已经详述的迷走神经之外，未来十年内有哪些全人类都会广泛践行、但目前尚未普及的健康大趋势（Macro Trends）？ 在费里斯展开全面阐述前，史蒂文首先抛出了自己的观察：室内外的“空气质量监控与二氧化碳管理”。史蒂文预测，公众对环境 CO2 浓度超标以及细微颗粒物危害的认知正在爆发式觉醒，未来十年内，每个人大概率都会佩戴某种专属便携环境检测设备，或者直接依靠 iPhone 等智能终端实时获知当前房间及室外空间的空气质量指标。 ### [53:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3232s) 生物电医学的未来：从迷走神经到脑代谢 生物电医学（bioelectric medicine）正在成为医疗健康领域最具革命性的前沿赛道。从加速经颅磁刺激（accelerated TMS）到聚焦超声（focused ultrasound），治疗手段正在发生根本性转变——患者甚至只需要将一个类似冰球大小的装置贴在肝脏或脾脏等器官上方，就能精确调节体内的免疫反射（immune reflex）。Tim 指出，“用微芯片取代药丸（microchips over pills）”将迎来爆发式增长，医学界正逐步意识到人体的许多生理沟通均由电信号介导，且完全可以通过体内植入物或体外设备施加干预。 为了印证这一点，Tim 分享了一个惊人的实验事实：在肠道微生物移植实验中，科学家将肥胖小鼠的肠道菌群移植到精瘦小鼠体内，精瘦小鼠通常会因此发胖；然而，如果在移植手术前切断迷走神经（vagus nerve），这一增重现象便完全不会发生。这证明了肠道菌群是通过迷走神经直接向大脑传递信号的。更耐人寻味的是，在生物电调控中，施加特定的电刺激往往能产生与物理切断或消融（ablation）惊人相似的效果。 Tim 预言，当前支撑精神疾病诊断与治疗的诸多传统假设在未来十年内将被彻底颠覆。这一颠覆主要由两股力量推动：一是对人体生物电系统的深入理解，二是对大脑燃料代谢（fuel utilization）与精神病理关系的重新认知。例如，通过提供酮体（ketones）替代葡萄糖作为大脑能量来源，可以缓解或逆转多种精神病症状，但严格生酮饮食的顺应性极差；而利用生物电技术则有望直接诱发类似生酮的全身抗炎效应，让人们无需摄入穿透血脑屏障的化学药物分子即可改善脑功能。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 生物电干预与迷走神经调控机制 accDescr: 展示生物电医学如何通过迷走神经与代谢途径影响脑功能与精神状态 subgraph GutBrain["肠道与神经通路"] A["肠道菌群信号"] --> B{"迷走神经传导"} B -->|"信号正常传输"| C["影响大脑中枢与代谢状态"] B -.->|"神经切断或电刺激抑制"| D["阻断致病信号传递"] end subgraph Bioelectric["生物电替代疗法"] E["外置/植入式微芯片设备"] --> F["调节器官免疫反射与电通路"] F --> G["模拟生酮抗炎效应"] G --> H["无需跨越血脑屏障的药物分子"] end ``` - **菌群移植与迷走神经实验**：将肥胖小鼠的粪菌移植至瘦小鼠体会诱发肥胖，但预先切断迷走神经可完全阻止该表型发生，证实了肠脑电信号轴的关键作用。 - **生酮替代方案**：传统药物受限于血脑屏障，而严格生酮饮食又难以坚持；生物电刺激可通过电信号模拟全身性抗炎与代谢调节。 - **投资布局**：Tim 透露自己已经投资了数家致力于用生物电信号替代传统摄入药物的先锋初创公司。 --- ### [57:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3429s) 人生新阶段的指引：为何顶级男性播客主普遍晚婚？ 当 Steven Bartlett 问及 Tim 在当前人生阶段的内在指引与核心追求时，Tim 坦言自己的重心已经彻底转向亲密关系。经历过数十年的事业打拼，他正全心期待开启下一段重要篇章——寻找终身伴侣、建立家庭。他直言，再创立一家公司、多写一本书或是再做一档播客，对自己的人生来说不过是在榨取“边际收益（marginal gains）”，已经无法带来质的改变。目前他虽未婚且没有子女，但正沉浸在与一位优秀伴侣的健康交往中。 聊到这里，Steven 提出一个在行业内部广为流传的现象：为什么当今绝大部分知名男性播客主持人（除了 Joe Rogan 等极少数例外）大多人到中年依然保持单身、没有成家？Tim 笑着直击要害：如果一个外形出众的男性持续在视频平台上曝光，其社交媒体私信（DM）中涌入的追求与诱惑往往令人难以抗拒，使得维持单身在短期内显得极具吸引力。 Tim 尖锐地揭露了现代约会软件的底层商业逻辑：尽管这些应用打着“旨在被用户彻底卸载”的宣传口号，但追根溯源，它们的盈利模式完全依托于会员订阅费。“它们根本不是约会工具，而是数字赌场（digital casinos），其算法机制就是为了将你永远困在赌场里。” --- ### [59:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3558s) 选择的悖论与交友软件的多巴胺陷阱 Tim 进一步剖析了现代亲密关系中的“选择悖论（Paradox of Choice）”。他半开玩笑地反思道，现代人所追捧的“灵魂伴侣”浪漫爱概念，在漫长的人类历史上其实只是近代的产物；相比之下，包办婚姻反而具备一种令人羡慕的纯粹与确定性。在充斥着无尽滑动的约会软件中，人们哪怕遇到了一位 8 分的理想对象，也会陷入心理内耗，误以为“只要再滑几千次，就能在下一个街角碰到 9 分或 10 分”。 这种机制通过心理学上的“可变奖励（variable reward）”牢牢锁定了用户的多巴胺回路，如同训狗时给予间歇性的零食奖励，用户也在不知不觉中被系统训化成了沉迷滑动的成瘾者。Tim 犀利地比喻道：“就像毒瘾发作的人总会说‘我只需要再来一口’，但事情根本不是这样运转的。”在这场看似资源充沛的游戏中，几乎没有哪个严肃对待生活的人会真心热爱约会软件。 Steven Bartlett 对此深表赞同，坦言如果自己现在重回单身重置约会流程，繁琐的寒暄与约会会彻底沦为全职工作并带来巨大消耗。他提到网上的一句戏谑：“现代人能尽早稳定下来，就像是赶上了撤离西贡的最后一班直升机（got the last chopper out of 'Nam）。”现实中那些在感情上最挣扎、抱怨缺乏选择的人，往往是一年约会 50 到 100 次的重度使用者。Tim 亦感慨自己曾耗费两三年时间在交友软件上，那感觉就如同背负了一份高压兼职，如今能彻底抽身回归真实生活，是一种巨大的解脱。 --- ### [01:02:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3757s) 前任嘉宾的提问：如何度过地球上的最后一天？ 节目接近尾声，进入《The Diary Of A CEO》的标志性传统：由上一位未公开身份的嘉宾为下一位嘉宾手写一个问题。Steven 透露，上一位嘉宾在节目录制后独自静坐了整整 30 分钟，苦思冥想后才慎重写下了由八个英文单词组成的终极提问：“你将如何度过你在地球上的最后一天？（How would you spend your final day on Earth?）” 面对这一厚重的问题，Tim 没有给出任何追逐感官刺激或未竟遗愿的浮夸设想： > “毫无疑问，我会和最亲密的朋友与家人在一起。这和吃什么披萨毫无关系……重点在于亲口向我所爱的人表达爱意，与他们相伴度过。不需要做任何华丽的事情，哪怕只是坐在门廊的摇椅上闲坐发呆。” Tim 坦言，这绝非随口敷衍的陈词滥调，而是他已经在日常生活中践行的信条。他在每年的日程规划中都会刻意封锁出固定的无干扰时间，专程用于陪伴挚友与至亲，而不是被动等待生命终点的倒计时。最后一天绝对不会去碰约会软件，也不会去吸毒狂欢，生命的终章唯有最纯粹的情感联结值得驻足。 ### [01:03:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3839s) 人际关系的年度复盘与长达25年的老友聚会传统 在谈到如何维系深厚人际关系时，蒂姆·费里斯（Tim Ferriss）分享了他每年固定执行的一套评估机制。在考虑结识新朋友或投入新社交圈之前，他首先会审视自己生命中最重要的 5 到 10 段核心关系，并扪心自问：“过去这一年，我陪伴这些人的时间是否达到了我心中期望的程度？”如果答案是否定的，他会毫不犹豫地将精力和时间重新倾注在这些老朋友身上，只有当社交带宽出现“富余溢出”时，才会将其分配给新的交往。他强调，自己极度看重那些经过长期岁月检验、彼此拥有极高信任度的稳固关系。 为了防止忙碌的现实生活阻碍至交好友的相聚，蒂姆在系统层面建立了一个雷打不动的硬性规则：在长达 25 年多的时间里，他每年夏天都会围绕自己的生日举办一次年度老友重聚。 - **日程锚点**：每年选定在几乎同一时间段举行，所有好友都提前知晓并将其锁定在日历上。 - **跨区域奔赴**：老朋友们会特意从全美乃至全世界各地乘飞机赶来聚集。 - **去中心化内核**：聚会虽然借着蒂姆生日的契机发起，但实质上完全无关寿星个人，其核心目的仅仅是为老友们创造一个纯粹的重逢平台。 ### [01:05:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3903s) 播客先驱与长内容范式：两代创作者的致敬与传承 史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）借此契机向蒂姆表达了由衷的敬意与谢意。史蒂文坦言，蒂姆与乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）等人是当今长音频与访谈播客领域不折不扣的“奠基者（Founding Fathers）”。若非蒂姆等先行者当年勇敢承担风险、证明深度长内容依然具备强大商业生命力与公众吸引力，并开拓出完整的运作蓝图，像自己这样的新生代创作者根本不可能拥有今天的事业与平台。史蒂文直言，当面对自己“站在其肩膀上”或“沿用其蓝图”的前辈时，必须当面道出这份感谢。 面对史蒂文的赞誉，蒂姆谦逊地表示，自己当年也是受更早一批先锋者的启发。例如在 2012 年为新书《4小时大厨》（*The 4-Hour Chef*）做宣发推广时，他曾作客《乔·罗根体验》（*The Joe Rogan Experience*）、马克·马龙（Marc Maron）的节目以及 Nerdist 等早期播客，正是那些经历让他敏锐意识到一场深刻的内容范式转移正在悄然酝酿。当蒂姆得知眼前的史蒂文年仅 33 岁时，不禁感叹对方拥有极为宽广的未来发展跑道（Runway），正处于极佳的人生与事业阶段。 ### [01:06:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3967s) 创业者的年度强制机制：为期四周的“迷你退休” 在探讨个人生产力与周度时间架构时，蒂姆补充了一项他认为所有人——尤其是创业者——都应勇于尝试的年度挑战：每年强制执行一次长达四周的“迷你退休（Mini-Retirement）”。在这四周里，当事人必须进入彻底不可联络的离线断联状态，禁用笔记本电脑，手机也仅限用于 Uber、Google Maps 或 OpenTable 等维持基本生存出行的工具软件，其余一切工作与社交联络完全切断。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 每年四周迷你退休的核心价值 accDescr: 迷你退休从生理恢复、系统赋能和内心审视三个维度对创业者产生深远影响。 subgraph Phase["四周彻底离线断联"] A["年度不可联络期<br/>(仅保留导航/出行工具)"] end subgraph Benefits["三大深层收益"] B["高强度博弈下的<br/>深层神经减负 (Deloading)"] C["逼迫企业完善<br/>员工自主决策准则与系统"] D["直面非工作志趣的萎缩<br/>打破A型人格追逐陷阱"] end A --> B A --> C A --> D ``` 蒂姆详细剖析了这项极限挑战背后的三大核心驱动逻辑： 1. **神经系统的减负重置**：只有通过周期性的深层减负（Deloading），创业者才能在高强度压力下持续打赢商业长跑。 2. **倒逼组织运营系统升级**：彻底断联是一种强有力的“强制功能（Forcing Function）”。它逼迫创始人提前梳理并确立极其明确的政策、规范与指导方针，赋予员工充分的自主决策权。即便四周结束后重返工作岗位，这些在离线前被迫建立的高效管理架构依然会永久沉淀为企业的核心资产。 3. **直面精神虚无与兴趣盲区**：断联能逼迫创业者审视自己那些被长期搁置甚至已经完全荒废的非商业兴趣。蒂姆指出，如果一个人突然脱离工作就因无所事事而陷入轻度恐慌，这恰恰是一次至关重要的当头棒喝。每个人都需要培养工作之外的生活支柱，以对抗那种“宛如猎犬在赛狗道上疯狂追逐机器假兔一般”的 A 型人格偏执。 ### [01:07:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=4071s) 结语与人际联结：对谈卡牌背后的意义 在节目的尾声，史蒂文感慨道，当今世界人们最迫切需要的莫过于真实深度的情感联结。他分享了节目组推出“对谈卡牌（Conversation Cards）”的初衷：在每期节目的录制现场，当他与嘉宾展开毫无防备的心灵对话时，总会发生这种极其动人且深层的连接。 该卡牌的核心设计源自节目每期结尾的经典环节——由受访嘉宾为下一位未知的到访者留下一个亲笔问题，并辅以增加对话张力的“扭转卡（Twist Cards）”。史蒂文宣布在新版卡牌中，首发批次将特别封入一张包含其个人独家提问的限量版“黄金卡（Gold Card）”，希望以此激发更多普通人走出日常浅层寒暄，在现实生活里开启有温度、有深度的真实对话。 ## Notable quotes > [03:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=203s) 如果仅仅靠信息就能解决问题，那全世界所有人早就都是拥有六块腹肌的亿万富翁了。 — 蒂姆·费里斯 > [12:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=755s) 没有宗教的人生依然可以非常美妙，但没有“敬畏与惊奇”的人生绝不可能真正幸福。 — 蒂姆·费里斯 > [18:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1085s) 把那些痛苦变成你药方的一部分。 — 蒂姆·费里斯 > [21:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=1270s) 如果能按 Ctrl+Z 彻底撤销那段经历，我会百分之百选择抹掉它。 — 蒂姆·费里斯 > [43:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=2638s) 望远镜之于天文学，显微镜之于生物学，迷幻药之于人类心智。 — 斯坦尼斯拉夫·格罗夫（由蒂姆·费里斯引述） > [53:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3232s) 用微芯片取代药丸。 — 蒂姆·费里斯 > [57:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3429s) 它们根本不是约会工具，而是数字赌场，其算法机制就是为了将你永远困在赌场里。 — 蒂姆·费里斯 > [01:02:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU&t=3757s) 毫无疑问，我会和最亲密的朋友与家人在一起。这和吃什么披萨毫无关系……重点在于亲口向我所爱的人表达爱意，与他们相伴度过。不需要做任何华丽的事情，哪怕只是坐在门廊的摇椅上闲坐发呆。 — 蒂姆·费里斯 ## Mentioned Tim Ferriss, Steven Bartlett, DiSS Framework, Garrett Camp, StumbleUpon, Uber, Debbie Millman, Dick Schwartz, IFS (Internal Family Systems), Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, Firestone Library, Jason Calacanis, Dr. Nolan Williams, Accelerated TMS (SAINT), Dr. Chris Palmer, Stanislav Grof, Dr. Gül Dölen, Dr. Kevin J. Tracey, The Great Nerve, gammaCore, Bon Charge, SimpliSafe, Apple Mac, Joe Rogan, The 4-Hour Work Week, The 4-Hour Chef, Conversation Cards ## Video description Health Hacker TIM FERRISS reveals how to naturally calm anxiety, lower stress, balance your nervous system, and boost mental health - without medication. Tim Ferriss is an entrepreneur, investor, lifestyle guru, and host of The Tim Ferriss Show. He is also the author of 5 #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling books, such as: ‘The 4-Hour Work Week: Escape the 9-5, Live Anywhere and Join the New Rich’. He explains: ◼️Why stimulating the vagus nerve may hold the key to anxiety relief ◼️How HRV became the #1 biomarker he tracks, and how to improve it fast ◼️His go-to 5-day reset protocol for nervous system healing ◼️What most people get wrong about managing stress, and how to fix it today ◼️The #1 diet mistake that could be fueling your anxiety If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out for help. You’re not alone. 📞 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (US) 📞116 123 Samaritans (UK) 00:00 Intro 02:33 My Mission: Simplify Complex Ideas 03:23 Framework for Fast Learning 07:47 Choosing the Right Projects 10:09 Importance of Small Steps for Big Results 12:34 Why Humans Need Purpose 15:32 Tim’s Sexual Abuse Story 25:35 How People Deal With Trauma 31:46 Practical Steps to Prevent Suicide 35:37 Humans Aren’t Programmed to Be Alone 39:05 Accelerated TMS for Depression and Anxiety 42:32 Metabolic Psychiatry 43:55 Psychedelic Treatments for Mental Health 45:26 Vagus Nerve Stimulation 49:59 Ads 53:10 The Future of Health: What’s Coming Next? 57:09 What’s Guiding You Today? 59:18 Dating Apps and the Paradox of Choice 01:02:37 How Would You Spend Your Last Day on Earth? Follow Tim: Instagram - https://bit.ly/49gqgRc TikTok - https://bit.ly/4oHX0ro X - https://bit.ly/4qW09oI You can purchase Tim’s new COYOTE card game, here: https://amzn.to/489NdnV You can purchase Tim’s book, ‘The 4-Hour Work Week’, here: https://amzn.to/48Z1oge Read Tim’s deeply personal reflections on suicide, here: https://bit.ly/4i1NnRS The Diary Of A CEO: ◼️Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼️Be the first to hear about Steven's new book - https://bit.ly/jfdi-doac ◼️Shop the 1% Diary - https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt ◼️The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards (Third Edition) - https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb ◼️Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt ◼️Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Independent Research: https://stevenbartlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/DOAC-Tim-Ferriss-Independent-Research-further-reading.pdf Sponsors: SimpliSafe - https://simplisafe.com/DOAC to save 60% on a SimpliSafe home security system. Bon Charge - http://boncharge.com/diary?rfsn=8189247.228c0cb with code DIARY for 25-30% off Apple: https://www.apple.com/mac/ The Conversation Cards: Game Edition- Limited edition available now - https://bit.ly/cc3-ar [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFyijjy1KdU)

[3:23] 蒂姆·费里斯: 如果仅仅靠信息就能解决问题，那全世界所有人早就都是拥有六块腹肌的亿万富翁了。 [12:35] 蒂姆·费里斯: 没有宗教的人生依然可以非常美妙，但没有“敬畏与惊奇”的人生绝不可能真正幸福。 [18:05] 蒂姆·费里斯: 把那些痛苦变成你药方的一部分。 [21:10] 蒂姆·费里斯: 如果能按 Ctrl+Z 彻底撤销那段经历，我会百分之百选择抹掉它。 [43:58] 斯坦尼斯拉夫·格罗夫（由蒂姆·费里斯引述）: 望远镜之于天文学，显微镜之于生物学，迷幻药之于人类心智。 [53:52] 蒂姆·费里斯: 用微芯片取代药丸。 [57:09] 蒂姆·费里斯: 它们根本不是约会工具，而是数字赌场，其算法机制就是为了将你永远困在赌场里。 [62:37] 蒂姆·费里斯: 毫无疑问，我会和最亲密的朋友与家人在一起。这和吃什么披萨毫无关系……重点在于亲口向我所爱的人表达爱意，与他们相伴度过。不需要做任何华丽的事情，哪怕只是坐在门廊的摇椅上闲坐发呆。

[2:33] Tim Ferriss: I think of myself as a self-experimenter, student, and teacher in that order. [3:23] Tim Ferriss: If more information were the answer, we'd all be billionaires with six-pack abs. [17:26] Steven Bartlett: take the pain and make it part of your medicine [17:26] Tim Ferriss's girlfriend: Have you ever thought about how many people are going to pass away from natural causes or from COVID or anything else before you ever have a chance to write this book? [31:14] Audience member: Have you ever thought about talking about mental health because you could really help a lot of people?

[0:00] every mental health complication or [0:02] diagnosis is increasing and I've worked [0:04] with different scientists [music] and [0:05] done a lot of experimentation on myself [0:07] having grown up with multiple depressive [0:09] episodes every year to see if [music] [0:11] there are root causes that we can [0:12] address and so I'll just throw out a few [0:14] things that have been very very helpful [0:16] first there's brain stimulation when I [0:18] did this I had months of no anxiety then [0:22] there's something called Vegas nerve [0:23] stimulation and one of the most heavily [0:25] cited scientists of the last 30 years [0:27] has seen a wild collection of benefits [0:29] So, let's talk about that. [0:31] >> Tim Ferris has become a performance [0:33] hacking expert after speaking with over [0:35] 800 influential voices on his podcast. [0:37] [music] [0:37] >> Now, he's taking the most valuable [0:39] frameworks and techniques to help you [0:41] optimize productivity, health, and [0:43] [music] performance. Tim, the variety of [0:46] things that you write about, talk about [0:48] is so wide. So, what is the question [0:50] that most people should ask you? [0:52] >> How do you break down complicated [0:54] subjects and accelerate your ability to [0:56] learn? because time is one of our most [0:59] valuable non-renewable resources. And so [1:01] I have a framework that you can apply to [1:03] any subject matter which consists of the [1:05] 80/20 principle which is picking the 20% [1:07] to focus on that will give you 80% of [1:09] what you want. For instance, there's [1:11] hundreds of thousands of words you could [1:12] learn in Spanish. But with the most [1:14] frequently used500, you can get to [1:17] reasonable conversational fluency in [1:19] almost any language in 8 to 12 weeks. [1:21] And if you figure that out, you're ahead [1:22] of 99.9% of the world. And what do you [1:24] think is the question most people want [1:26] to ask you? [1:27] >> So there's a lot of questions around [1:29] mental health and I feel like I have a [1:31] moral obligation to help people because [1:34] I was uh sexually abused by a [1:37] babysitter's son on a weekly basis. I [1:41] was this close to killing myself. And it [1:45] can have a lot of effects, but these are [1:48] things that you can slowly chip away at. [1:50] and instead of feeling like you're held [1:52] captive by them, feel like you can take [1:55] the [music] pain and make it part of [1:56] your medicine. [1:58] >> So, [2:02] I see messages all the time in the [2:04] comments section that some of you didn't [2:05] realize you didn't subscribe. So, [2:07] [snorts] if you could do me a favor and [2:08] double check if you're a subscriber to [2:09] this channel, that would be tremendously [2:11] appreciated. It's the simple, it's the [2:12] free thing that anybody that watches [2:14] this show frequently can do to help us [2:16] here to keep everything going in this [2:17] show in the trajectory it's on. So, [2:19] please do double check if you've [2:21] subscribed and uh thank you so much [2:22] because in a strange way you are you're [2:24] part of our history and you're on this [2:26] journey with us and I appreciate you for [2:28] that. So, yeah, thank you [2:31] [music] [2:33] Tim. [2:34] You're a remarkably interesting [2:36] individual in part because the variety [2:39] of things that you write about, talk [2:41] about clearly have deep curiosity in is [2:44] so wide that you're you're hard to to [2:47] put into any particular box. So I my [2:49] first question to you is how do you [2:51] think about the work you do and how do [2:53] you sort of like self-define if you do [2:55] at all who you are and what your mission [2:58] is. I think of myself as a [3:04] self-experimenttor [3:05] student and teacher in that order. The [3:08] purpose though ultimately is to try to [3:10] find simplicity through complexity or [3:13] topics that can be complicated and then [3:16] provide some type of recipe or algorithm [3:19] that people can test with low risk and [3:22] hopefully a decent amount of upside. [3:24] >> We're going to talk about a lot of [3:25] different things today. So it probably a [3:26] good place to start which is learning [3:28] how to learn and especially in a world [3:30] that's changing at such speed. There's a [3:31] lot of people that are being forced into [3:33] relearning of some sort whether it's [3:35] professionally or in other domains. So [3:37] metalarning, I've never heard this term [3:39] before. [3:39] >> Mhm. [3:40] >> How how do what is metalarning and how [3:42] do I learn how to learn better? I would [3:44] love to cuz I spend so long as you do [3:46] speaking to really interesting people [3:47] >> and I sometimes worry that some of that [3:50] information is being wasted. [3:51] >> Yeah. The basic idea is this that rather [3:55] than treat different [3:58] subjects or fields as these silos that [4:01] need to be figured out independently, [4:03] how can you develop just a broad [4:05] framework that you can apply to any [4:07] subject matter? And the acronym that I [4:10] generally recommend folks, DSS, [4:13] deconstruction, selection, sequencing, [4:16] stakes. There's deconstruction, which is [4:19] taking a [4:21] fairly ambiguous goal like learn to swim [4:25] or learn Japanese. [4:28] None of those are actually very [4:29] descriptive, right? So deconstructing [4:32] any one of those is taking let's just [4:35] use the learn to swim as an example and [4:37] breaking it down into constituent parts [4:40] right and you can you can do that very [4:42] effectively with the help of an expert [4:44] you can try to do it yourself but for [4:45] instance I mean if you want to find a [4:48] silver medalist from the Olympics two [4:50] Olympics ago you can probably get on a [4:53] Zoom call with them for [4:56] $100 an hour maybe $50 an hour like you [4:59] do have access to world class talent. [5:02] >> Then they would help you figure out all [5:04] right there all these different possible [5:05] components. When you get to the next [5:08] part which is selection, you're picking [5:10] the 20%. This is the 8020 principle, [5:14] right? Prao's law. So you're picking the [5:16] 20% that will give you 80% of what you [5:19] want. Let's just use language learning [5:20] in that case. Well, you can very easily [5:23] find word frequency lists. So for any [5:26] given language like Spanish, sure, or in [5:29] English, hundreds of thousands of words [5:30] you could learn. But with the most [5:33] frequently used 1500, [5:36] you can get to reasonable conversational [5:38] fluency in almost any language in 8 to [5:40] 12 weeks without question if you [5:42] approach it methodically. But you need [5:44] the right material first. And then the [5:47] next S is sequencing. Putting it in the [5:50] right order. And I feel like this is the [5:52] magic sauce that gets lost a lot, which [5:55] is what is a logical sequence for [5:58] learning any given skill. What do you [6:00] practice first? So in the case of [6:02] swimming for instance, forget about [6:04] breathing. Like you need to figure out [6:05] like fuselage right, fuselage left, and [6:08] gliding, kicking off a wall in the [6:11] shallow end of a pool before you ever [6:12] think about breathing [6:14] >> and getting comfortable putting your [6:15] head under water, etc., etc. So, so [6:18] there's the deconstruction, selection, [6:20] sequencing, and then the last S stands [6:22] for stakes, which means incentives. So, [6:25] how do you ensure that you will do [6:28] actually what it is you say you're [6:29] committing to doing? If more information [6:31] were the answer, we'd all be [6:32] billionaires with six pack abs. So, [6:34] information is clearly not sufficient. [6:37] It's necessary, but not sufficient. [6:38] Incentives drive behavior change. So, [6:41] you need good intentions are not enough. [6:45] Even a system is not enough. You need [6:47] strong incentives. So, right, you could [6:50] give uh 500 bucks to a friend or 100 [6:53] bucks, whatever. Does the amount doesn't [6:55] really matter. And if you don't do what [6:57] you say you're going to do, they donate [6:58] it to like your most hated political [7:00] candidate in your name, right? That's [7:02] another one that I've seen work really [7:04] well. That's it. That DSS, [7:07] deconstruction, selection, sequencing, [7:10] stakes. And if you just check those [7:12] boxes moving that order, [7:14] uh, your ability to learn will hockey [7:17] stick in a really meaningful way. And [7:19] what's also important to realize when [7:21] you're trying to tackle any new skill, [7:23] doesn't matter what it is. [7:26] There will, it will not be just a linear [7:28] climb from, you know, bottom, left, [7:31] upper, right. But if you know in advance [7:33] that those are coming, then you can have [7:35] a plan for it and weather the storm. So [7:37] that's also very important. If people [7:39] expect some kind of like linear [7:41] incremental progress, it just ain't [7:43] going to happen. And so most people quit [7:45] before they hit any real inflection [7:46] points. [7:47] >> And how does one know what to pursue? [7:49] Like how do you decide what's worth [7:51] pursuing? Is there a framework for [7:52] knowing what should be on the Sunday [7:53] shelf and what should be today today's [7:56] work? [7:57] >> I do think about this a lot and I've [8:00] used this for a very very long time and [8:02] I don't see it changing anytime soon. I [8:04] refined it here and there. Almost [8:05] everything I do is a 6 to 12 month [8:07] project. [8:09] with lots of 2 to four week experiments [8:11] within that 6 to 12 months. I do not [8:14] have and I've never had a long-term [8:16] career plan 5 years, 10 years. If you [8:19] have a reliable 5 to 10 year plan, [8:20] you're going to be playing so safely [8:22] within the bounds of your capabilities [8:24] that I feel like you're selling yourself [8:25] short. So for me, it's projects and just [8:28] going 100% into those projects. But how [8:31] do you pick the project? I pick the [8:33] projects based on relationships and [8:36] skills. So new relationships or [8:39] deepening important relationships and my [8:43] learning curve skills I'm going to learn [8:46] and there's a condition though those [8:48] relationships and those skills have to [8:50] be able to transcend that project. I'll [8:52] give you an example. If I have a project [8:54] which is working on a startup as an [8:56] adviser that startup was stumble upon. [8:59] Okay so I'm working on Stumble Upon. Way [9:00] back in the day Stumble Upon was a huge [9:02] deal. It delivered a lot of web traffic [9:04] to various websites. It's kind of like a [9:07] Pandora for websites. A year or two into [9:09] that didn't go anywhere. But who was it? [9:12] I spent all my time with it. Stumbled [9:14] upon. It was the founder named Garrett [9:15] Camp and I became really close friends. [9:17] I learned a ton about web traffic. I was [9:20] also able to use my own website and blog [9:22] as a experimental destination. Right? So [9:26] there was upside even if it went to zero [9:27] for me. And few years later I get a text [9:32] from Garrett. we meet up to talk about [9:33] this new idea which is solving the taxi [9:35] problem in San Francisco. And then [9:38] shortly thereafter it was called Uber [9:39] Cab LLC and I became advised to that. [9:42] And I could give you 12 more examples [9:44] like that where like the first project [9:46] failed but I became friends with with [9:49] person A or B learned C and D and those [9:52] were applied two projects later to [9:54] something that was a home run. And [9:55] should everybody at every stage in their [9:57] journey have the same brainwork or you [10:00] know because if you think about the [10:01] different things one could acquire from [10:03] like resources, reputation, knowledge, [10:05] skills, [10:06] >> um network. [10:08] >> If I'm 18 and broke, should I be aiming [10:11] at the same things as if I'm Tim [10:13] Ferrris? [10:15] >> My instinct is to say yes. [10:17] >> And the reason I say that is that Lady [10:21] Fortune has a lot to say about what [10:23] happens. There are so many things [10:24] outside of your control that whatever [10:27] game you choose to play [sighs] [10:31] requires a system that allows you to [10:33] survive a a string of very bad luck. [10:37] Everything snowballs over time and [10:39] compounds and it's really hard to lose [10:42] long term as long as you're not [10:45] overindexing and betting too much on any [10:48] one project say financially. [10:51] It's [10:51] >> like you need to be able to withstand as [10:55] a team or as an individual a period of [10:57] very bad luck [10:59] >> in order for the law of big numbers and [11:01] statistics to work in your favor with a [11:03] system that gives you a slight edge. Um [11:06] so that's just my lens on the world in [11:09] general [11:11] at least professional choices and I [11:13] would say you mentioned a couple of [11:14] other things right like reputation and [11:17] so on. I feel like a lot of those are [11:21] second order effects. They happen [11:23] automatically if you are optimizing for [11:25] the relationships and skills. [11:27] >> So, uh this comes back to the [11:29] sequencing, right? So, it's like which [11:30] which is the lead domino. So, if you [11:33] have 12 dominoes, you kind of have to [11:34] decide in which order you're going to [11:36] stack them so that you knock over the [11:38] small domino, knock over the bigger [11:40] domino, then the bigger, then the [11:41] bigger, then the bigger. And over time, [11:45] if you're thinking about doing two [11:46] projects a year, let's just say if [11:48] they're 6 months each, [11:50] >> that's going to add up. It's going to [11:52] add up. So, you can afford to be [11:55] long-term greedy [11:57] instead of short-term greedy. [11:59] >> Is that what people call passion? Is are [12:01] you using the same [12:03] >> I uh I like energy over passion for a [12:07] couple of reasons? Because you could [12:08] have passion between the bed sheets. You [12:10] could have the passion of the Christ. [12:11] You had a different type of passion. I [12:13] don't like imprecise terms. Energy for [12:16] me, very simple. It's like, are you more [12:17] awake or are you sleepy? Right? [12:19] [laughter] [12:20] Do you feel like you can do this for [12:22] another 5 hours? Do you feel like you [12:23] want to stop in 15 minutes? These are [12:25] almost biological questions, like [12:28] biological state questions. So, it's [12:30] it's pretty intuitive for people to get [12:32] to a yes or no. [12:35] One of the subjects I've been thinking a [12:36] lot about recently, why have I been [12:38] thinking about this more recently? Don't [12:40] know, just a series of conversations [12:42] I've had on the show which make have [12:43] kind of pushed me closer to trying to [12:45] answer this question is about [12:48] about meaning and purpose and I guess [12:52] religion because actually it's only in [12:54] recent history that we've had so many [12:55] answers to some of these bloody [12:56] questions like the the solar eclipse. We [12:58] now know what's going on there. It's not [13:00] God testing us. So the the Vikings are [13:02] throwing like their spears at it. We [13:04] know what it is now. So not believing [13:08] atheism, agnosticism, is that a fairly [13:10] new construct? And are we not meant to [13:13] know so much? [laughter] [13:15] >> Well, I I think that humans need [13:18] certainty. They need something to [13:21] believe. And if your belief is that [13:24] non-belief is the way, well, guess what? [13:26] I mean, that's a belief, [13:27] >> right? [13:28] >> Okay. So I would say that my experience [13:31] is if you want to experience [13:34] self transcendence which I think is [13:36] critical for mental health you don't [13:39] need religion per se. [13:42] What you you can have I think a very [13:48] wonderful life without religion. I don't [13:50] think it's possible to have a wonderful [13:52] life without awe and wonder. And those [13:55] are things you can architect. [13:58] Those are things you can very much [13:59] architect and engineer and schedule in [14:02] your life. Why have veganism and [14:06] CrossFit done so well? They're [14:09] religions. [14:10] I mean, effectively, they may not have a [14:12] god, per se. [14:13] >> Yeah. [14:14] >> But certainly they have thought leaders, [14:16] they, you know, glassmen before his fall [14:19] from grace [14:21] and so on. Uh various athletes and so [14:23] on. But it's like clear rules, [14:26] community, self-inforcing [14:30] and [14:30] >> describing life sports. [14:32] >> Yeah. I mean, it's like this is religion [14:35] just goes by another name. It's a lot of [14:37] the behaviors, collective behaviors and [14:40] tenants of religion just lacking the [14:42] rword. [14:43] >> What you worship? [14:44] >> Yeah, I knew that was coming. Yeah, you [14:46] >> uh I think the risk for me is that I [14:48] feel like I have a moral obligation to [14:52] help people which can turn into a bit of [14:54] a savior complex because of a lot of the [14:57] pain that I've suffered in the past. Uh [15:00] I feel like I am not necessarily [15:04] uniquely suited, but I have the the [15:07] experience and the perspective that [15:09] allows me to be credible when talking to [15:11] people who are experiencing certain [15:12] types of pain. And that can become a [15:15] huge unhelpful self-imposed burden where [15:18] I feel a moral obligation to do things [15:21] at the expense of my own mental health [15:23] or physical health. So I would say [15:27] that's something that I have very [15:28] clearly on my radar as of a few years [15:30] ago. Uh [15:32] >> when did the first domino fall in that [15:34] regard? [15:35] >> In terms of uh you mean just general [15:39] challenges personally? Uh well, I was uh [15:43] might as well dig into it. So I I was uh [15:48] sexually abused by a babysitter's son [15:50] from 2 to four on a weekly basis, I [15:54] would say. Very clear memories of all of [15:56] it. And that will shape you. I mean, [16:00] that will definitely shape you. And it [16:03] can have a lot of effects. It can rob [16:06] you of agency. it can certainly make you [16:08] or contribute to me being hypervigilant. [16:12] I'm very slow to trust and [16:16] so on and so forth, right? like that is [16:18] a formative experience at a formative [16:19] time and [16:22] then later [16:24] had I think number one a genetic [16:26] predisposition if you just look at my [16:28] family to major depressive disorder [16:32] and [16:34] that showed up as let's call it on [16:37] average starting in early adolescence [16:40] like three to four [16:43] multi-week or multimonth depressive [16:45] episodes per [16:47] That is [16:50] half of your lived time. And [16:54] for people who may have experienced [16:56] something like this, [16:58] I will say that there are tools at work. [17:00] So now, never thought it would be [17:02] possible, but I would say now I have one [17:06] depressive episode of a few weeks at [17:09] most every 2 to 3 years. [17:12] Now the juxtaposition between those two [17:16] people is hard to overstate, right? [17:19] Those are those are two fundamentally [17:21] different experiences of being a human. [17:23] >> And um a lot of it ties back to some of [17:26] the levers I was talking about, right? [17:28] Metabolic psychiatry, psychedelic [17:30] assisted therapy, [17:32] bioelectric medicine, including [17:33] accelerated TMS. Like these things for [17:35] certain people really work and can be [17:38] durable. They're not one and done. Very [17:41] few things are, but uh these are things [17:45] that you can slowly chip away at and [17:48] become familiar with and [17:51] instead of feeling like you're held [17:53] captive by them, feel like [17:57] you can mold the experience into [18:01] something that is at least not [18:04] disabling. [18:05] >> Sometimes you can make it enabling. I [18:07] remember a psy very good psychotherapist [18:10] said to me maybe five years ago, six [18:12] years ago, [18:15] take the pain and make it part of your [18:16] medicine. And it was basically like all [18:19] that stuff is horrible. Nothing can [18:21] excuse it. Take that pain and made it [18:23] make it part of what you offer the [18:25] world. And there was I would say the [18:28] combination of that statement and also [18:31] COVID during which my girlfriend at the [18:34] time because she knew about my history [18:36] very few at that time there were maybe [18:38] two people in the world who knew about [18:40] it. [18:40] >> Wow. [18:41] >> Two long-term ex-girlfriends I'd been [18:43] with for like five to six years each and [18:46] >> parents didn't know parents [18:47] >> didn't know. Really? [18:49] >> Yeah. And [18:52] I was sitting with her during COVID just [18:56] as it was getting fully ramped. [18:58] [laughter] [18:59] And [19:02] I had always planned on writing a book [19:03] about it or like my healing journey [19:05] after my parents passed away cuz I [19:07] didn't want them to blame themselves. [19:10] And my girlfriend at the time over a [19:13] meal said something that had a huge [19:15] impact, which was, "Have you ever [19:17] thought about how many people are going [19:18] to pass away from natural causes or from [19:21] COVID or anything else before you ever [19:24] have a chance to write this book?" Cuz [19:26] you're probably not going to write that [19:27] book for 10, 15 years. [19:29] >> Think of all the people you could have [19:30] helped that you didn't help. And I was [19:33] like, "Okay, maybe I should workshop it [19:36] on a podcast." But keep in mind, none of [19:38] my family knew. [19:40] And so I was very fortunate to have a [19:43] very close friend who's based here in [19:44] New York City, Debbie Milman, Design [19:46] Matters Podcast, one of the longest [19:47] running podcasts in the world, wonderful [19:50] human. And she disclosed to me a number [19:54] of years back for the first time in full [19:56] fidelity [19:58] extended childhood sexual abuse. and we [20:01] talked about it [20:03] and I came clean with her after that [20:07] conversation with my girlfriend and I [20:08] asked her if she would be open to having [20:10] a conversation with me that we could [20:12] record but as a conversation because I [20:14] knew I couldn't do it as a monologue. I [20:16] just knew I couldn't do it and I told [20:18] her in advance I said I have no idea if [20:20] I'm ever going to share this but I feel [20:24] I feel compelled to at least record it. [20:27] And so we did and ended up publishing [20:30] that I want to say in September 2020, [20:32] something like that. And uh holy [ __ ] I [20:38] would say the most shocking thing about [20:40] that to me. I knew the statistics, [20:42] right? But statistics are very [20:43] impersonal. Like these these these types [20:46] of abuse, this type of sexual abuse is [20:49] incredibly prevalent. not just [20:53] uh involving young girls but also [20:56] involving a lot of young boys. I [20:58] probably had a quarter to a third of my [21:03] close close friends reach out to me for [21:06] the first time to talk to anyone and [21:08] confess that they had had some type of [21:10] similar experience. I I mean the [21:12] percentages were staggering. [21:15] Um that was really hard. Um I was [21:19] willing to absorb it. I have a lot of [21:20] capacity for absorbing that type of [21:22] thing, but it was hard because I would [21:23] get these tearful voice memos from guys [21:26] who had never told anyone, giving me [21:29] graphic details of everything that [21:30] happened. It's just gut-wrenching. I [21:32] mean, I remember walking up and down my [21:35] driveway just like tears running down my [21:38] face and like I don't cry much. that's [21:40] not really a thing for me, but just the [21:42] brutality of it [21:45] and uh then in retrospect [21:48] seeing so many things coales where I'm [21:51] like oh that explains all of these [21:54] unanswered questions I had about that [21:55] friend and also for me looking back [21:58] again hindsight being 2020 for a long [22:00] time I had let's just call it to pick a [22:03] number out of thin air it's like okay I [22:04] have seven mental health psycho [22:07] emotional challenges I need to address [22:09] and I was viewing them as independent [22:10] problems to address. But when I was [22:14] willing to reopen the door and look at [22:16] the childhood abuse, everything was tied [22:17] to that. [22:20] And [22:21] sometimes you just have to, you know, [22:24] put on your gas mask and go into the [22:26] cellar and contend with that. And [22:28] there's no one right way to do it. [22:30] Psychiatry is still in the dark ages. [22:32] It's where surgery was 300 years ago. [22:35] But still there are certain things that [22:37] work often without knowing the mechanism [22:40] seem to help a lot of people. So there [22:42] there are tools I think internal family [22:46] systems created by Dick Schwarz is very [22:48] interesting. The MDMA assisted [22:51] psychotherapy certainly for PTSD very [22:53] interesting and generally well tolerated [22:56] not right for everybody. And then a [22:58] number of the other things that I [23:00] mentioned uh family constellation [23:01] therapy also quite helpful for a lot of [23:04] people but [23:06] uh it's not insurmountable. [23:09] What I would not say is that some people [23:13] and I think that I would love to be able [23:16] to do this but I just can't get there or [23:18] who would say like I don't regret it. [23:20] I'm glad it happened because here's the [23:22] silver lining. No. Like if I could [23:24] control Z and remove that stuff 100% I [23:26] would I mean it did a lot of damage but [23:30] it gives me a credible voice when I am [23:33] talking to people who have had these [23:34] experiences and that is valuable. [23:37] >> Can you explain to me what you've [23:39] learned about how how you were 2 years [23:41] old at the time. [23:42] >> Yeah. [23:42] >> Between the age of two and four you [23:44] said. [23:45] >> What what is I'm I'm kind of asking [23:47] about the mechanism here. what is [23:49] happening in a 2 to four year old [23:51] child's brain [23:55] that causes the damage cuz presumably at [23:58] 2 years old you don't understand what's [24:00] happening. You don't understand what [24:01] this individual this person who's older [24:03] than you is doing and the context of it. [24:05] >> Yeah. [24:05] >> So I'm I'm I'm trying to understand how [24:08] what the mechanism of harm is to a to an [24:10] innocent child who doesn't understand [24:13] understand the context of what's going [24:16] on here. [24:16] >> Yeah. I I don't think anyone can really [24:20] answer that particularly well with high [24:22] conviction. But what what I'll say is [24:24] that [24:26] uh I am blessed and cursed with a near [24:30] photographic memory for some things. [24:31] >> Mhm. [clears throat] So you have the [24:33] original [24:35] injury, you have the original insult, [24:37] >> but if you have, as I do, which is [24:42] weird, but like I can draw the floor [24:43] plan of almost any building, any [24:45] restaurant I've ever been in, [24:46] >> that's crazy. [24:47] >> Even once, I don't know why that is, but [24:49] I can do that. Now, there are upsides to [24:52] that. There are a lot of downsides, too, [24:53] in the case of abuse. [24:56] And [24:59] as you have greater and greater [25:03] ability to navigate the world and [25:06] realize what has happened, what is [25:08] happening, what might happen, and you [25:10] can recontextualize [25:12] highfidelity memories. [25:14] Well, then you realize [25:17] that that thing that was very weird at [25:20] the time was a lot more than just weird, [25:23] right? It was just straight exploitation [25:27] and abuse. So [25:33] that's the best answer I think I can [25:34] give to that question. [25:35] >> It's similar to what Lisa, Dr. Lisa [25:37] Feldman told me. She's a neuroscientist [25:40] who said she told me this story. It's [25:41] obviously an anecdote, so it's an N of [25:43] one. Um, so obviously taken with [25:46] caution, but she she told me the story [25:47] of a young woman who was abused by her [25:51] uncle [25:53] and um lived a normal life. Everything [25:55] was fine, slept well, [25:57] >> then watched Oprah [25:58] >> and Oprah had on there an array of women [26:01] that were abused [26:02] >> when they were younger [26:03] >> and she recontextualized what happened [26:05] to her and from that day onwards she had [26:07] all the symptoms of someone who was [26:09] abused. She was had sleep disruption, [26:11] health disruption, all these things. [26:12] Yeah. [26:12] >> Because she had suddenly, as you used [26:14] that term, reconceptualized actually [26:16] what had happened there. [26:17] >> Yeah. [26:17] >> It's made, you know, [26:19] >> Yeah. I mean, look, I think people who [26:21] have been abused are [26:26] those who survive and do well afterwards [26:29] in some way are become very good by [26:34] force, by necessity at [26:36] compartmentalizing. [26:38] And uh if you look at some of the very [26:42] very top tier military [26:47] um [26:49] special forces units and so on, the [26:51] percentages of those guys who have been [26:53] abused very high. Now, why why would [26:56] that be an asset? Well, if you're in [26:59] battle, [27:01] if you're in a chaotic environment where [27:03] people are dying or at risk of dying [27:06] and [27:08] you need to act effectively and calmly [27:12] in the most [27:15] disruptive, unpredictable environment [27:17] imaginable. Compartmentalizing is a [27:19] superpower, right? where you can [27:21] basically detach and take this observer [27:24] status almost as if you're watching [27:26] yourself [27:28] doing, you know, kill and capture raids [27:30] or whatever it might be. [27:32] >> Uh [27:34] but when some of those folks come back [27:37] to civilian life, the [27:39] compartmentalization is a severe [27:41] handicap and disruptor in family life, [27:44] right? So that superpower becomes a [27:46] super weakness. [27:48] And I think that that is true outside of [27:51] the military [clears throat] for people [27:52] who survive abuse. They may bury it [27:55] completely, put it under lock and key [27:57] subconsciously. So they don't even have [28:00] explicit recall of the event until [28:03] perhaps there's some trig triggering [28:05] catalyst that brings it back up. They [28:07] might just say, "Hey, look, that [28:08] happened. It's terrible. Like no need to [28:11] dwell on the past. I want to move [28:12] forward." which I think frankly is a [28:14] viable [28:16] strategy. I don't think everyone needs [28:19] to go, you know, put on their hazmat [28:21] suit and unearth everything bad that has [28:23] ever happened to them. I don't think [28:25] that is automatically productive or [28:28] helpful. Uh can make people really [28:30] despondent [28:32] because you can't fix the past, right? [28:35] Mhm. [28:35] >> Uh so I would say that in in my case [28:38] that compartmentalization [28:41] was uh on some levels very enabling, [28:45] right? Like I could outlast out endure [28:50] a lot of people in sports, in work. My [28:54] pain tolerance was incredibly high. Uh [28:57] but there's a there is a price to be [28:59] paid when you cauterize [29:02] certain aspects of yourself and disallow [29:05] certain types of emotions. Like there [29:07] are prices to be paid. And um I will say [29:11] that I think the [29:14] potential and promises of psychedelics [29:16] by and large are overstated. [29:18] But in terms of bringing emotions back [29:20] online, [29:22] that was almost entirely due to [29:25] psychedelic experiences for me. [29:26] >> Bringing emotions back online. [29:28] >> Yeah. So, I hadn't cried in like 20 [29:31] years. Couldn't remember the last time I [29:32] cried. And then I'd be like on a plane [29:34] watching a really compelling kind of [29:37] heart-wrenching documentary and just [29:38] start crying on the plane. What the [ __ ] [29:40] is going on [laughter] here? The [ __ ] [29:43] And uh certain emotions just came back [29:45] online. [29:47] And I think that once those were online, [29:51] that is in part what then pulled along [29:53] with it, this revisiting of these [29:57] highfidelity memories. And then um [30:02] I had a very rough period because of [30:04] that and ultimately decided, you know [30:06] what, like this is the lead domino that [30:09] has already been tipped over that has [30:11] affected so many things. I can continue [30:13] to do patchwork [30:16] like remediation with band-aid solutions [30:19] for various things, but I'm just I'm [30:21] plugging holes in the side of the boat, [30:23] not asking why it's filling with water [30:25] in the first place. And I just decided, [30:27] you know what? I'm just going to take 6 [30:28] months. And I know psychiatry is pretty [30:31] messy, but priority number one is to try [30:35] to find some resolution with this. And [30:37] that's what I did. I I canceled [30:39] everything because I was having [30:41] basically like a nervous breakdown and [30:44] wasn't sure I would be able to sort of [30:46] function in a business capacity anyway. [30:48] [gasps] [30:49] Um [30:51] so yeah, quite the adventure, quite the [30:54] misadventure, but you know, you play [30:58] your hand the best you can. Uh so having [31:01] a podcast, having the books, having a [31:03] blog has actually been incredibly [31:07] therapeutic for me in finding some way [31:11] to extract value from those experiences. [31:14] And let me just mention this because I [31:17] don't make anything from it. If people [31:19] are going through any experience like [31:22] this or if they've had a history of [31:25] trauma, uh you can just go to [31:26] tim.blog/trauma blog/trauma and it's got [31:29] the conversation with Debbie. It's a [31:31] hard conversation, but it also has a [31:34] list of resources because what I used as [31:37] a toolkit and what Debbie used are [31:40] completely different. [31:41] >> So, you get two very different [31:43] perspectives on things. [31:45] And uh I would say if I had to pick one [31:47] other blog post in this case that I am [31:51] was the hardest to put out and also that [31:54] I think I'm proudest of it would be some [31:57] practical thoughts on suicide. There's a [31:58] post called some practical thoughts on [32:00] suicide [gasps] [32:02] and um I know that has I know directly [32:05] that has saved a few hundred lives and [32:08] it it details my personal experience of [32:11] almost killing myself in college coming [32:13] very close like I had a date on the [32:15] calendar and the only reason it didn't [32:17] happen is because I lucked out this is [32:20] luck so at the time [32:24] I was taking a year off of uh college to [32:29] work in a few different jobs and ended [32:31] up being very isolated because my whole [32:34] class was graduating. My roommates at [32:37] the time had full-time jobs. So, I was [32:38] just kind of stuck at home working on my [32:40] senior thesis. Not a good recipe for [32:42] mental health. And [32:45] I reserved a book from the Princeton [32:49] University Library about assisted [32:51] suicide. And the book was out, popular [32:54] book it would seem. And back in the day, [32:58] the way the system worked is they would [33:00] mail you a physical postcard to your [33:02] address that was at the registars's [33:04] office. I had not updated my address to [33:08] my off-campus apartment. So, the card [33:11] that said, "Good news, your book on [33:14] assist suicide has arrived at Firestone [33:16] Library got mailed to my parents." [33:19] And that's what snapped me out of it was [33:21] realizing, "Oh, this isn't just about [33:23] me." right now. I don't have the [33:25] plausible deniability. I was going to [33:26] make it look like an accident. It's like [33:27] now I don't have it. That's been taken [33:29] away. Retrospect, thank God. And so, it [33:32] didn't happen. But the reason I wrote [33:34] that post is because I was at an event. [33:37] It's actually being interviewed by Jason [33:39] Calcanis on stage at this live this [33:42] weekend startups event. [33:44] Few hundred people in the audience and [33:46] stuck around afterwards and a bunch of [33:49] people came up and wanted books signed [33:51] and things like that. And there was one [33:53] really nice guy, well-dressed, had had [33:55] himself put together, who asked me to [33:57] sign two books, one for himself, and [34:00] then he asked me to sign a book for his [34:01] brother. And I said, "What would you [34:03] like me to say to your brother?" And he [34:04] just kind of froze. And I was like, [34:07] "Huh? Okay. Well, I don't want this guy [34:08] to feel stressed out." I was like, "I'll [34:10] tell you what, we can figure it out or [34:11] you can just leave it to me. There's no [34:12] rush. Like, we can do this after the [34:15] event." All right. Took care of [34:16] everybody else. And then the guy walked [34:19] me to the elevator and he explained, he [34:22] said, "Yeah, sorry about that. I froze [34:23] because my brother committed suicide [34:26] and we kept his room exactly how it [34:29] was." And he was a huge fan of your [34:32] writing. And so I wanted to get a book [34:34] signed by you and put it in his room. [34:37] And [34:39] he said, "Have you ever thought about [34:41] talking about mental health because you [34:44] could really help a lot of people? A lot [34:45] of people listen to you." And [34:47] unbeknownst to him, I had all the [34:49] history with coming this close to [34:52] killing myself. [34:54] And uh I sat with that and I was like, [34:57] "Yeah, he's right. He's really right. I [35:00] have a responsibility to write about [35:02] it." And that blog post took me at least [35:05] a month to write and rewrite and rewrite [35:09] and have proof read consider deleting. [35:13] And uh because that was also something [35:15] that my family didn't know about. I mean [35:17] they they knew about the book but they [35:19] didn't they didn't realize how close it [35:20] was. So [35:22] >> [snorts] [35:22] >> um that was also another [35:25] wonderful call with family to be like so [35:28] there's this thing about to come out. [35:30] [laughter] [35:31] Should probably give you a heads up so [35:32] you don't hear about it from everybody [35:33] in the extended family. [35:35] >> But uh [35:36] >> when your parents received that that [35:38] thing in the post y [35:40] >> that slip the library slip. [35:41] >> Yep. [35:42] >> Did they call you? My mom called me with [35:44] this very shaky voice being like, "What [35:46] is what is what is this? Why did you [35:48] reserve this book?" And I lied, you [35:51] know. I said, "Oh, well, I have a friend [35:52] at Ruters and he was trying to get this [35:53] book for a research project and they [35:55] didn't have it at their library, so he [35:57] asked me to get one from through [35:58] Firestone." But I was just lying. But I [36:01] knew the the jig was up, right? And uh [36:06] that was that was the turnaround point. [36:08] And that was also because this was in [36:10] 1999 where I just decided to go 100% [36:12] into physical training. [36:15] U and there's a lot of backstory behind [36:17] it. People can read about it if they [36:19] want on that post. Some practical [36:20] thoughts about suicide. But [36:24] this is not it is so [ __ ] common. [36:28] It's very disturbing like when you [36:30] realize it's disturbing and reassuring. [36:32] It's disturbing because you realize how [36:34] prevalent it is and how close so many [36:36] people have come. [sighs] [36:38] It's reassuring because you realize also [36:44] very quickly that you are not alone. [36:46] You're not uniquely flawed. This doesn't [36:49] need to be personal and permanent. [36:52] People have solved for this. Looking at [36:55] my audience over the last 10 years, [37:00] every mental health complication or [37:04] diagnosis that I can think of is up and [37:06] to the right. Just [snorts] hockey [37:08] stick. So, chronic anxiety, treatment [37:10] resistant depression, [37:12] you name it, right? Obesity, loneliness, [37:16] which can take many different forms, [37:17] usually self-imposed. [37:20] And [37:22] when I see a constellation of issues [37:24] like that, I try to identify if I can, [37:29] not just the symptoms because then you [37:30] end up putting band-aids on things that [37:34] are interrelated but treating them as [37:35] silos, but looking underneath it to see [37:38] if there are root causes that we can [37:40] address. So [37:43] let me speak to that first. So on the [37:45] mental health side, I'll just throw out [37:48] a few things that have been very very [37:50] helpful. [snorts] There are the [37:52] behavioral questions and I would agree [37:54] that [37:56] at its simplest level, you can just look [37:59] at what we're evolved for, right? Just [38:01] take a close look at evolutionary [38:03] biology. Independence lone wolf is not [38:06] in our programming. It just is not. So I [38:10] would say when in doubt [38:12] revert on some level to what people were [38:15] doing a few hundred years ago at the [38:17] most recent right [38:20] and [38:22] that would be sort of assumption number [38:24] one. Then I would say to people who are [38:28] suffering right now, [38:31] the social interaction, analog human [38:34] interaction, I would just say is the is [38:38] the the one target when hit that solves [38:41] a multitude of other problems that [38:44] otherwise you'll be playing whack-a-ole [38:46] with. But if there are then remaining [38:50] problems with say chronic anxiety, OCD [38:56] when we get into some slightly trickier [38:58] terrain, schizophrenia, borderline [39:00] personality disorder, etc. There are a [39:02] few things that I have found in the [39:05] course of doing a lot of work with [39:08] different scientists and also a lot of [39:11] experimentation on myself having [39:13] [clears throat] [39:14] grown up with multiple long duration [39:17] depressive episodes every year [39:21] and those are a short list of different [39:24] types of brain stimulation specifically [39:26] something called accelerated TMS. The [39:28] before and afters that I've seen with [39:30] that are beyond incredible and equal or [39:34] surpass in some cases the amplitude of [39:36] effect and the durability of effect of [39:39] psychedelic assisted therapies. [39:41] Accelerated TMS, so transcranial [39:43] magnetic stimulation. And Nolan [39:46] Williams, Dr. Nolan Williams at Stanford [39:48] is is a good person to look up for more [39:51] on that. [39:51] >> What exactly is that? Is that putting [39:53] something on your head? M [39:54] >> there are different ways to do it [39:55] depending on the hardware that you're [39:57] using but in effect accelerated TMS [40:01] refers to a new protocol with better [40:03] hardware and software of a technology [40:06] TMS that has existed probably for 40 [40:09] years if not more on some level and you [40:14] will instead of doing two or three [40:17] sessions a week for many months you do [40:21] 10 sessions a day for 5 days straight. [40:25] So you are getting stimulated on the [40:27] hour every hour for about 8 minutes [40:30] [gasps] [40:31] and you do that for 10 hours straight [40:34] and then you compound that over 5 days [40:39] and you see for instance uh to give one [40:43] example a friend's child very terrifying [40:47] story uh but uh he was [40:51] a cutter this this 14-year-old self [40:54] harming. [40:55] >> Yeah. And the parents were just waiting [40:58] for the call that their child had [41:01] committed suicide. And this went on for [41:03] two or three years, I want to say. And [41:06] then within 3 days of accelerated TMS [41:09] treatment, it was like reversion back to [41:11] old self. And then with boosters every [41:14] say 3 to 6 months, that has been [41:17] durable. It's the before and after is [41:22] impossible to overstate. It's pretty [41:23] wild. [41:23] >> What are they doing to the brain? Is it [41:25] electrodes or is it music or it's [41:27] >> magnet? It's magnets. [41:29] >> Magnets. [41:29] >> Yep. And the what it feels like is is [41:32] someone kind of like flicking the side [41:34] of your head. It's sort of the [41:35] sensation. It is from a safety profile [41:38] perspective really compelling. Like the [41:41] downside risk is very very minimal. And [41:45] me with the most recent sessions that [41:47] I've done myself, I had probably four to [41:50] five [41:52] months of no anxiety. Like all of that [41:55] stuff vanished as if by magic wand and I [41:58] felt like I'd been meditating twice a [42:00] day for a year. I mean it was it was [42:04] incomprehensible. Uh it was it was [42:06] really really really uh remarkable. And [42:08] there's there's good clinical evidence [42:10] for this. It's not just end of one [42:13] anecdote. So, so that's one is the kind [42:16] of neurostim piece and there's a lot [42:18] more that's going to happen in that [42:19] space. But bioelectric medicine, that [42:21] would be one big lever that I think is [42:25] worth investigating if people are [42:26] suffering with any number of different [42:28] conditions. [42:29] Then you have metabolic psychiatry. [42:33] Primarily that would be dietary [42:34] intervention. Chris Palmer at Harvard is [42:36] is someone who's popularized this in the [42:38] last handful of years. metabolic [42:40] psychiatry specifically putting people [42:41] on a ketogenic diet. You have folks who [42:44] have been treated with 15 different [42:46] medications for schizophrenia for a [42:48] decade who get off all of their [42:50] medications within 3 to 6 months and [42:53] stay off simply by [42:57] stabilizing a handful of things in the [43:00] brain including adding a very beautiful [43:04] clean energy source which is ketones. [43:07] There are also a lot of possible [43:09] applications of the ketogenic diet or [43:12] modified ketogenic diets, exogenous [43:14] ketones meaning supplemental ketones for [43:16] neurodeenerative disease. So I have [43:19] three relatives right now who have [43:21] Alzheimer's and genetically I'm very [43:23] predisposed. So I'm thinking a lot about [43:26] this also from a preventative [43:28] perspective. So can I potentially [43:31] bolster mitochondrial health, [43:35] cellular cleanup, reduction of plaque [43:38] buildup, etc. by doing strict ketosis [43:40] for a month a year, fasting for [43:45] a week, perhaps once a year, water only. [43:47] I think there's actually pretty [43:49] compelling evidence that those are all [43:52] worthwhile interventions to consider if [43:54] you're very highly predisposed as I am. [43:56] And then I would say the last one I'll [43:58] mention now the psychedelic assisted [44:00] therapies for various conditions. I do [44:02] think that psychedelics and this is to [44:04] quote a very famous psychotherapist [44:07] named Stannisl Grath Stan Grath what the [44:10] telescope did for astronomy what the [44:12] microscope did for biology psychedelics [44:14] will do for the mind. I don't think [44:16] that's an overstatement because a lot of [44:18] the the clinical outcomes that we're [44:20] seeing with treatment resistant PTSD, [44:23] people who've had an average diagnosis [44:25] duration of like 14 to 17 years, nothing [44:28] succeeded. They do two to three sessions [44:30] and then you see like a 50 plus% [44:32] complete remission of PTSD. I mean, what [44:36] is going on there? I think in a very [44:37] productive way leading us to question [44:39] some of the very fundamental assumptions [44:41] that are made in the world of psychiatry [44:44] particularly with pharmaceutical [44:46] interactions or pharmaceutical [44:47] prescriptions and that's really exciting [44:50] to me because [44:52] I think there is an argument to be made [44:54] that you can address certain root causes [44:58] and there are different explanations for [44:59] this ghoul Dolan who's now at UC [45:01] Berkeley she was at Johns Hopkins talks [45:04] about the reopening of critical periods [45:07] for development. So you could [45:08] potentially use psychedelics for [45:12] stroke patients who are trying to [45:13] relearn motor control. So I would say [45:16] that those are are broadly kind of the [45:18] the three pillars. There's one other [45:20] that I'm [45:22] digging into that I think could end up [45:24] being very very interesting overall. [45:26] This is one that is sort of TBD. [45:29] Personally I am experimenting with it [45:31] but Vegas nerve stimulation. There is a [45:33] sea of [ __ ] floating around related [45:35] to Vegas nerve stimulation. The vast [45:37] majority of what you'll bump into is [45:39] pseudoscientific nonsense. [45:41] >> So, if I'd never heard about Vegas nerve [45:43] stimulation before, how would you [45:44] >> Yeah, I can explain it. [clears throat] [45:45] >> Yeah. [45:45] >> All right. So, the Vegas nerve is a bit [45:46] of a misnomer because they're actually [45:50] two bundles of nerves that travel down [45:52] from around your brain stem down either [45:55] side of the neck, kind of where you [45:56] would feel your pulse. It's right [45:58] alongside the corateed artery. [46:00] >> Mh. And you can think of them as almost [46:02] transatlantic cables. So you don't have [46:06] you have two primary vag nerves, [46:09] but there are about a 100,000 fibers in [46:12] each of them. And we only know what a [46:14] tiny fraction of those do. They then [46:16] travel down and they intervate and touch [46:19] pretty much everything you can imagine, [46:21] including your gut. And there's some [46:24] very interesting communication between [46:27] the gut microbiome and the brain. visa v [46:30] the Vegas nerve. It's wild. And the most [46:34] credible voice that I found in [46:37] the world of Vegas nerve stimulation [46:41] or VNS for short science is a guy named [46:44] Dr. Brian Tracy, T R A C Y. He wrote a [46:48] book called The Great Nerve, which is a [46:49] very good introductory read on all of [46:51] this. One of the most heavily cited [46:53] scientists of the last 30 years. He's [46:55] incredibly credible. and [46:59] he co-founded a company I want to say at [47:01] least 10 years ago or 11 years ago was [47:03] involved at least as a as a primary [47:06] scientific adviser for an implant. The [47:09] implant is about the size of a omega-3 [47:11] fish oil capsule gets implanted right in [47:13] the neck. So surgical procedure but [47:16] pretty minor and that has just been [47:19] approved. It was the cover of the New [47:20] York Times a few weeks ago for [47:22] rheumatoid arthritis. And the before and [47:25] after that you see in some of these [47:26] conditions again is something straight [47:29] out of science fiction. You see someone [47:30] who's been mostly bedridden, chronic [47:33] fatigue, can't hold a job, struggling to [47:36] interact with their kids, has this [47:38] procedure, and then like two weeks later [47:40] they're running up a flight of stairs to [47:42] catch a train on a trip to Europe and [47:45] have the problem of too much energy. It [47:47] seems to have broad potential [47:49] application to autoimmune conditions. So [47:53] you might think of say a Crohn's disease [47:55] or IBS. [47:57] It seems to have applications [48:00] to [48:02] significantly enhancing HRV [48:05] heart rate variability. So I have a [48:07] friend who for the longest time he's [48:09] former tier one operator military. He's [48:12] got a lot of sympathetic overdrive. So [48:13] he had trouble sleeping and he tried [48:17] all sorts of sophisticated breathing [48:19] programs which can help. He tried cold [48:21] exposure which can help but those were [48:23] all incremental gains on his HRV maybe [48:26] improved 10 to 15% lots of meditation [48:29] twice a day 10 to 15%. Used vag nerve [48:33] stimulation for [48:35] somewhere between two and four weeks [48:37] tripled his HRV. [48:38] >> What? [48:39] >> Yeah, tripled. [48:40] >> How did he stimulate his vag nerve? Was [48:42] it like [48:43] >> this? This is where we get into some [48:45] controversial territory. [48:47] All right. So, the device he used is [48:52] it is a device. It's called Gamma Core. [48:54] It's by prescription. It is applied to [48:57] the neck. It provides [49:01] electrical stimulation for [49:04] 2 minutes at a time. I believe it's very [49:06] very minimal. It's 2 minutes twice a [49:08] day. I want to say maybe it's 5 minutes [49:10] twice a day. And that seems to have just [49:14] a a downstream collection of benefits or [49:18] potential benefits. Most of the research [49:21] for gamore is for I believe migraines [49:24] andor cluster headaches in terms of [49:27] published literature or option B which [49:31] has a lot more in terms of published [49:33] studies would be uh oricuricular so ear [49:37] stimulation [49:39] uh and that's stimulating something [49:40] called the simba conscia right here this [49:43] very particular location and so you [49:45] apply stimulation to the ear I'm [49:48] experimenting with both the ear and also [49:51] the neck. I would say Vegas nerve [49:53] stimulation has top of mind [49:57] access right now for me in terms of [49:58] interest. [50:00] >> I bought this Bond Charge face mask, [50:02] this light panel for my girlfriend for [50:04] Christmas and this was my first [50:05] introduction into Bon Charge and since [50:07] then I've used their products so often. [50:09] So when they asked if they could sponsor [50:11] the show, it was my absolute privilege. [50:13] If you're not familiar with red light [50:14] therapy, it works by using near infrared [50:16] light to target your skin and body [50:18] non-invasively. And it reduces wrinkle, [50:20] scars, and blemishes and boosts collagen [50:23] production so your skin looks firmer. It [50:26] also helps your body to recover faster. [50:28] My favorite products are the red light [50:30] therapy mask, which is what I have here [50:31] in front of me, and also the infrared [50:34] sauna blanket. 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[51:49] Right now, my audience can save 60% on a [51:52] Simplysafe home security system at [51:55] simplysafe.com/doac. [51:57] That's simplysafe.com/doac. [52:00] To save 60% on a simplysafe home [52:02] security system, there's no safe like [52:04] Simplysafe. Before the Diary of SEO was [52:07] what it is today, it was just an idea. [52:09] And it started with me, a cheap plug-in [52:12] microphone, and my Mac right here. And I [52:15] have to say, when I first had the idea [52:16] for the Diary of a CEO, my thinking was [52:18] that the world might want to see into [52:20] the diaries of some of the most [52:21] interesting, successful people really in [52:23] high places that were doing interesting [52:25] things. So, after recording that first [52:27] episode under my duvet, I sat on my Mac, [52:30] which is from our sponsor Apple, and [52:31] spent hours editing and eventually [52:33] uploaded it. And honestly, I thought [52:35] that would probably be it. But a couple [52:37] of my friends said they enjoyed it. So, [52:38] I kept on recording. And over time, the [52:41] microphone has changed and we now have [52:42] this incredible setup here. But the [52:44] thing that has stayed the same is I'm [52:46] still using the Mac. Even today, my [52:49] entire team across our studio still uses [52:51] the Mac. Our first few episodes maybe [52:53] had tens of people listening, but now [52:56] tens of millions of people tune in all [52:57] over the world, which is still [52:58] absolutely crazy to me. So, if there is [53:01] an idea that keeps tapping you on the [53:02] shoulder, this is your sign to start. [53:04] Your great ideas start on Mac. And you [53:07] can find out more at apple.com/mack. [53:11] Because of what you do and because of [53:12] the way that you are in terms of your [53:14] broad curiosity and the way that you [53:16] think and the way that you learn, I have [53:18] to ask you the question, what is it that [53:19] you see coming down the pipe? Like [53:21] coming down the line in terms of macro [53:24] trends in it's probably makes sense for [53:26] us to just stick with health for a [53:27] second, but you've talked about Vegas [53:29] enough. Is there anything else that you [53:30] think 10 years from now everybody's [53:32] going to be doing [53:34] >> but they're not currently doing [53:36] >> or thinking about? One of them I'll [53:37] throw out there is something I've been [53:38] thinking about is air quality. I think I [53:40] see a rise in people's concern about CO2 [53:43] levels and also outside air quality. So [53:45] I imagine I'll be wearing some kind of [53:47] device or my iPhone will be telling me [53:49] about the air quality in the room or [53:51] outside. [53:52] >> Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. I think [53:53] bioelectric medicine is a big category. [53:55] So whether it's accelerated TMS or [53:58] focused ultrasound [54:00] uh where you might take something that [54:02] looks like a hockey puck and put it over [54:04] your your liver for instance or [54:08] spleen uh to affect various things. uh [54:12] using microchips over pills I think is [54:16] is is a is going to be a huge growth [54:21] area and that we'll realize more and [54:24] more how much is dependent on the immune [54:27] reflex and different types of [54:29] communication mediated by electricity uh [54:33] that can be affected by external or [54:35] internal devices like an implant. So for [54:38] instance, I'll give you a wild factoid [54:40] which is people may have heard the story [54:43] which is based on real science where you [54:46] transplant the microbiome from say obese [54:49] mice into lean mice and those lean mice [54:52] then become obese just by transplanting [54:56] m the gut microbiome. [54:59] If you sever the vagus nerve before you [55:01] do the transplant that doesn't happen. [55:03] They don't become obese. So what's [55:06] happening there? It would seem that the [55:09] microbiome is communicating with the [55:12] brain viv the vagus nerve. And when you [55:17] sever something experimentally in that [55:19] way or bladed or whatever, [55:21] often times this might seem paradoxical, [55:25] but you can achieve similar effects with [55:27] stimulation that you can with severing. [55:31] And [55:33] I think many of the assumptions that we [55:35] have currently which form the bedrock of [55:37] our quote unquote understanding of [55:40] mental illness and so on are just going [55:41] to be completely false. They're going to [55:43] be completely untenable within 10 years. [55:46] A lot of that I think is going to be [55:50] driven by a better understanding of the [55:52] body electric. It will be driven by [55:55] better understanding of [55:58] how [56:00] fuel utilization in the brain drives [56:04] many different psychiatric conditions [56:06] that can be mitigated or completely [56:09] addressed by say providing an alternate [56:11] fuel source instead of glucose ketones, [56:13] right? That would be just kind of a [56:14] simple example. But there's a huge huge [56:16] compliance issue with the ketogenic [56:18] diet, right? People don't want to do it [56:20] for [snorts] a lot of good reasons. So, [56:21] how do you get people to stick with it? [56:23] Well, maybe there are other options [56:26] for achieving ketogenic like effects [56:31] such as systemic anti-inflammation with [56:33] the use of electricity instead of diet. [56:36] Right? [56:37] I think that's possible and I've [56:39] invested in a few companies that are [56:40] aiming to do that. uh which is very [56:43] exciting because it means that you might [56:46] have options for affecting brain [56:49] function that do not require you to take [56:51] molecules that get into your brain [56:53] directly. [56:54] >> Mhm. [56:54] >> That's really exciting. So bioelectric [56:56] medicine I think is going to be a very [56:59] exciting space to watch and there are a [57:02] lot of researchers doing some wild stuff [57:05] with bioelectric medicine. [gasps] [57:07] So we'll see where it goes. Where are [57:09] you today in terms of your what's [57:12] guiding you at the moment in this season [57:13] of your life? Do you what are your big [57:15] goals? Are you are you aspiring towards [57:17] anything in particular? [57:18] >> It's relationships. It's uh looking [57:21] forward to the next big chapter for me [57:23] which would almost certainly it not [57:26] almost certainly be partner, family, all [57:30] of that. I mean another startup's not [57:33] going to make any difference to my life. [57:35] You know, another podcast. I love all [57:37] those things. I love startups. I love [57:40] the podcast. I love the books. But we're [57:44] at the [57:46] squeezing out of marginal gains at this [57:48] point. [57:48] >> Are you married or [57:50] >> I'm not married. Don't have any kids [57:51] that I'm aware of. [57:52] >> You're aware of [57:53] >> But uh dating a lovely woman right now. [57:57] Very excited about it. [57:58] >> Do you think it's quite strange that a [58:00] lot of podcasters don't seem to be like [58:01] I'm not married. Yeah. [58:02] >> And I don't have any kids yet. [58:03] >> Yeah. [58:04] >> Um I've just turned 33. But so many of [58:06] the big podcasters don't seem to have [58:08] kids or be married other than really [58:10] Rogan. [58:10] >> Yeah. Yeah. [58:11] >> Someone tweeted about the other day. I [58:13] was like, [laughter] "Oh, fuck." [58:16] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think that [58:18] I'm not I'm not pointing fingers at you, [58:20] but I but I know quite a few of these [58:22] guys. If we're talking about guys, u I I [58:25] mean, I know a bunch of female [58:26] podcasters as well. Um quite a few of [58:29] which are married. Uh, but on the male [58:32] side, I will say, you know, if you're a [58:34] good-looking guy and you're putting [58:36] videos on YouTube, [58:38] your DM inbound and your plethora of [58:44] temptation that you need to resist is [58:46] going to make remaining single very [58:48] attractive. And [laughter] [58:52] that's true for a lot of these guys. So, [58:54] I don't think there's a mystery to be [58:56] solved. In other words, it's like if [58:58] they go on the dating apps, it's just [58:59] like shooting fish in a barrel. And [59:03] I I don't think ultimately that the [59:05] dating apps, despite what they might [59:07] say, are designed to be deleted. I do [59:09] not believe that. They are casinos [59:11] intended to keep you in the casino. [59:13] >> Yeah. [59:14] >> It's just follow the money. Follow the [59:17] subscription plans. [59:18] >> Well, you talk about the paradox of [59:19] choice. [59:20] >> Yeah. And [59:23] so there are times and I think this is [59:24] probably misplaced envy where I'm like, [59:26] you know, maybe there was something to [59:28] arranged marriages, you know, and this [59:31] whole idea of like soulmate romantic [59:33] love driving everything is a relatively [59:35] new invention. [59:36] >> Mhm. [59:37] >> On the scale of human history. Uh now [59:41] would I want someone deciding who I [59:44] marry and have kids with? Not [59:45] particularly. But there is a certain [59:48] simplicity to it that I find enviable [59:52] when you end up in the modern digital [59:55] casinos of dating apps where [59:58] yes, that person was an eight out of 10, [60:00] but man, that nine or 10 is just right [60:02] around the corner. I know it's just a [60:04] few thousand swipes away. [60:06] >> Yeah. [60:06] >> And and you get the variable reward at [60:09] least if you're like a a healthy, [60:12] sexually vigorous male. [60:16] >> [snorts] [60:17] >> I'm sure for women as well. I just think [60:18] that men tend to think with their [60:20] smaller head a lot more often. Uh you're [60:23] going to get these incredible dopamine [60:26] hits of variable reward. It's just like [60:29] dog training, but you're training [60:30] yourself with the dating app to continue [60:32] using the dating app [60:34] >> by getting these Scooby snacks in terms [60:36] of, you know, [laughter] fill in the [60:38] blank with your imagination. Uh, [60:41] I don't meet all I have not met a single [60:43] person who is like, I love dating apps. [60:46] >> No one. [60:46] >> I have not met a single person. And yet, [60:49] right, what does the crack addict want? [60:51] >> More crack. And they might say, I just [60:53] need one more hit. That's not how it [60:55] works. [60:55] >> Yeah. [laughter] [60:57] >> So, there is, I think, a lot to be said [60:59] for applying positive constraints, [61:02] right? [61:02] >> Scared to be single again. I just the [61:04] way I look out at the the current [61:06] mechanism of finding someone these [61:07] dating apps and I just think and also I [61:10] do understand it would be a significant [61:12] distraction from whatever I'm doing [61:14] here. [61:14] >> Oh, for sure. [61:15] >> Can you imagine me being in New York [61:16] City tonight single and like uh and [61:20] having the evening off and what what [61:22] would go through my head and and then [61:24] you'd have to go on a date with someone. [61:25] You've got to do all the small talk [61:27] stuff. I got out the game before the [61:29] game like began. Yeah. [61:30] >> Like seven years ago I the game. I saw [61:32] this this tweet from this I think it was [61:35] a Vietnamese woman who said, you know, I [61:37] wonder if it wasn't Gen X, it was like, [61:40] I wonder if X, Y, and Z people of this [61:44] generation are looking at dating apps [61:45] and thinking, wow, we got the last [61:47] chopper out of N. [61:48] >> Literally, literally. [61:50] >> And [61:52] >> oh my god, [61:52] >> that's not far from the truth. Uh, [61:55] paradox of choice is a real problem. [61:57] People think it's a quality problem of [61:59] abundance. I'm not convinced that that's [62:01] true. No way. It's not poss I have so [62:03] many clo My friends that struggle with [62:05] dating the most, date the most. [62:08] >> Yeah, sure. [62:09] >> I've got two or three friends that I can [62:11] think of. I won't name them, but two of [62:12] them are women and one of them is a guy. [62:14] They do 50 between 50 and 100 dates a [62:17] year. [62:17] >> Yeah. [62:18] >> And they're just convinced that it's [62:19] through lack of lack of option. And I [62:21] just it's impossible. But, you know, [62:24] >> yeah, I'm uh very happy to be off the [62:27] dating apps. I was on the dating apps [62:29] for 2 or 3 years and it was just [62:31] [laughter] [62:32] >> it is a part-time slash full-time job. [62:34] >> We have a a closing tradition on this [62:36] podcast where the last guest leaves a [62:37] question for the next guest not knowing [62:38] who they're leaving it for. And your you [62:40] know the person who wrote your question [62:42] sat there I kid you not for 30 minutes [62:46] in total silence thinking about these [62:49] two three four five six seven eight [62:51] words. [62:51] >> Oh wow. [62:52] >> They sat there for I've never seen [62:53] anything like it. [62:54] >> All right. and the eight words that they [62:56] wrote. [62:56] >> Oh man, [laughter] [62:58] >> I know, right? [63:00] >> That's nine words. [63:00] >> What is your favorite color today? [63:02] >> Can you imagine? [laughter] [63:04] >> Yeah. What's your favorite sandwich? No, [63:06] I'm joking. Um, how would you spend your [63:10] final day on Earth? [63:13] >> With my closest friends and family? No [63:16] doubt. [63:18] It wouldn't be pizza. It wouldn't be I [63:20] mean maybe it involves pizza, but it [63:22] would be [63:24] telling the people I love that I love [63:26] them and spending time with them. [63:28] Doesn't need to be anything fancy. Could [63:30] be sitting on a porch on a rocking [63:31] chair. And that might seem like a trit [63:35] answer, but I am putting that into [63:37] practice every year with periods of time [63:39] that are blocked out for this. So, I'm [63:41] not waiting until my last day, but last [63:43] day certainly wouldn't be dating apps. [63:46] [laughter] [63:47] wouldn't be an opium bender. [63:50] Uh it would be it would be time with my [63:54] my absolute closest friends and family. [63:56] And I'll add uh elaboration on the past [63:59] year review when I'm looking at [64:01] relationships [64:03] before investing in new relationships. I [64:06] look at my top say five to 10 [64:08] relationships and ask myself did I spend [64:10] the amount of time I would want to spend [64:11] with these people last year? And if the [64:14] answer is no, I always reinvest in those [64:17] people and only the overflow [64:20] gets allocated to new relationships. I [64:23] really focus on the tried andrue proven [64:26] relationships with deep levels of trust [64:28] over long periods of time. [64:29] >> In terms of systems, you've put have you [64:31] put a system in place to make sure that [64:33] life doesn't get in the way of those [64:35] people coming together? Yeah. I mean, [64:37] for 25 plus years, I've had a [64:42] annual reunion around my birthday every [64:45] year in the summer where all of my or [64:48] those who can make it, but incredibly [64:51] old friends show up. They know it's on [64:53] the calendar. It's roughly the same date [64:55] every year. And they fly in from all [64:58] over the country, all over the world. [65:00] And it has nothing to do with my [65:01] birthday. It's just a reunion of [65:03] friends. [65:03] >> Tim, thank you. Thank you for several [65:05] reasons. I think the first reason is [65:07] you're one of the I said to you before [65:09] one of the founding fathers of what we [65:11] do here and if it wasn't for people like [65:12] yourself and Joe there is a 0% chance I [65:15] think that people like me would be doing [65:18] what we do now and that's given us so [65:20] much there's really really like a very [65:21] extremely low chance that if people like [65:23] you hadn't taken the risk and created a [65:25] blueprint and shown that it was like an [65:27] effective medium and the long form was [65:29] interesting and everything that you you [65:31] guys proved there's no chance that [65:33] people like with me would exist and So I [65:35] whenever I meet people like you that I I [65:38] consider to have to be standing on the [65:40] shoulders of on or have stolen a [65:42] blueprint on I feel like I am obliged to [65:44] say thank you because you've created but [65:46] it's true. It's true. [65:47] >> Yeah. And I was inspired also by people [65:49] who preceded me right when I did the [65:51] launch for the 4-Hour chef in 2012 with [65:54] going on Joe Rogan and Mark Marin and [65:57] Nerdist and so on. Like those guys also [65:59] showed me that something interesting was [66:00] a foot. [66:01] >> So uh you're 33 you said [66:04] >> 33. [66:04] >> Yeah. You got a lot of runway, man. [66:06] You're in a good position. [66:07] >> We'll see. We'll see what happens. I'll [66:09] add one last thing that I neglected to [66:12] mention earlier, but in terms of [66:16] productivity, and we're talking about [66:17] weekly architecture, I think everyone [66:19] should put as a challenge for [66:21] themselves, [66:23] >> particularly if they're an entrepreneur, [66:26] a 4-week mini retirement once a year [66:29] where you are unavailable. you are off [66:31] the grid. No laptop, no phone outside of [66:35] maybe Uber and Google Maps and Open [66:38] Table where [snorts] you are literally [66:41] completely unavailable. And the reason I [66:44] recommend that there are a few. Number [66:45] one, it's going to allow you to play the [66:48] long game at high intensity having that [66:51] de loing phase. The second is it will [66:53] force you to improve all of your [66:57] policies, rules, guidelines for [66:59] autonomous decision-m by employees, [67:03] etc., etc. It'll force you to clarify [67:05] all of that on a regular basis. So, when [67:07] you come back, all of those systems [67:09] improvements will endure beyond the mini [67:12] retirement, but it's a forcing function. [67:14] Mhm. [67:14] >> Uh it [clears throat] also forces you to [67:16] take a very close look at the non-b [67:20] businessiness interests that you have [67:22] either maintained or cultivated or let [67:25] atrophy in complete disuse. And if you [67:29] end up having a slight panic attack [67:31] because you don't know what to do with [67:32] your time, that's a great wakeup call. [67:35] You need some other things to offset the [67:39] type A maniacal focus on chasing that [67:42] rabbit around the greyhound drag. [67:44] >> Amen. [67:47] >> Thank you, Tim. Thanks, man. Thank you [67:49] so much. [67:51] >> If there's anything we need, it is [67:53] connection, especially in the world [67:54] we're living in today. And that is [67:56] exactly why we created these [67:58] conversation cards. Because on this [67:59] show, when I sit here with my guests and [68:01] have those deep, intimate conversations, [68:04] this remarkable thing happens time and [68:06] time again. We feel deeply connected to [68:08] each other. At the end of every episode, [68:10] the guest I'm interviewing leaves a [68:12] question for the next guest, and we've [68:14] turned them into these conversation [68:16] cards, and we've added these twist cards [68:18] to make your conversations even more [68:19] interesting. And there are so many more [68:22] twists along the way with the [68:23] conversation cards. This is the brand [68:24] new edition and for the first time ever, [68:26] I've added to the pack this gold card [68:28] which is an exclusive question from me. [68:31] But I'm only putting the gold cards in [68:34] the first run of conversation cards. So [68:36] get yours now before the limited edition [68:38] gold cards are all gone. Head to the [68:40] link in the description below. [68:43] [music] [68:48] [music]