Serial Founder Chris Koerner Tests Business Ideas with $500 Seed Capital

The Diary Of A CEO

Aspiring entrepreneurs achieve higher success by replicating validated competitor models rather than innovating unproven concepts.

AI-assisted summary of Passive Income Expert: How To Make $10k Per Month In 90 Days! — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2025-12-08

Detailed notes

## Background Published on YouTube by The Diary Of A CEO channel on December 8, 2025, this episode features serial entrepreneur Chris Koerner detailing his approach to building over 80 businesses from scratch. The video description highlights Koerner's strategies for turning small investments into substantial revenue, debunking passive income myths, utilizing AI tools, and validating business ideas with minimal capital.

## TL;DR Serial entrepreneur Chris Koerner breaks down actionable strategies for launching low-capital side hustles, arguing that true passive income only follows hands-on, 'sweaty' execution. He outlines practical business models across various budget tiers—from $500 AI implementation agencies and drop servicing to $5,000 creative seller financing for RV parks. Koerner emphasizes validating ideas rapidly through existing market blueprints and simple testing frameworks rather than chasing unproven innovations. Throughout the conversation, he stresses the importance of overcoming the fear of public judgment and prioritizing cash flow over speculative equity.

## Atmosphere & style The interview carries an energetic, pragmatic, and candid tone, balancing high-level strategic insight with grounded tactical advice. Host Steven Bartlett and guest Chris Koerner share a natural rapport, blending humorous anecdotes with realistic assessments of the trade-offs required in entrepreneurship. The conversation moves seamlessly from lighthearted reflections on early side hustles to vulnerable discussions about failure, financial stress, and personal motivation.

## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) The primary barriers preventing people from launching side hustles are an intense fear of public judgment and difficulty connecting digital tools to practical business concepts. - [02:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=156s) Starting a successful business often requires reaching a point where the frustration with your current status quo outweighs the fear of public scrutiny. - [05:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=333s) Modern digital platforms and AI tools enable entrepreneurs to rapidly test business concepts on evenings and weekends without quitting their day jobs. - [05:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=333s) Validating market demand by replicating existing, successful business models is often far less risky than inventing completely original products or services. - [15:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=901s) Attempting to innovate too early before securing clear demand or failing to manage operational pricing complexities can cripple an early-stage venture. - [27:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1629s) Founders build a strong bias for action by drastically shortening the delay between generating an idea and conducting an initial real-world test. - [39:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2350s) True passive income rarely exists at the start; founders must build active, hands-on revenue streams before achieving passive returns. - [41:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2515s) Entrepreneurs should prioritize profit-generating opportunities until they have the financial flexibility to pursue personal passions. - [52:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3122s) Founders can stress-test physical or digital Minimum Viable Products quickly using Meta platforms like Facebook Marketplace, Groups, and low-budget ads. - [01:02:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3725s) Building a massive, multi-billion-dollar enterprise requires extreme hyper-focus, whereas pursuing personal freedom and high profitability allows for a more varied portfolio of businesses. - [01:14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4483s) Standard 50/50 equity splits often fail; business partnerships require clear milestone-based equity frameworks tied to actual performance. - [01:20:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4854s) A $500 budget can launch an AI implementation agency using 'vibe coding' tools to build custom workflows for non-technical small business owners. - [01:27:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5273s) Drop servicing allows entrepreneurs to capture high margins by managing online customer acquisition while outsourcing physical execution to local contractors. - [01:44:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6245s) Transitioning $5,000 into cash-flowing real estate like small RV parks offers significantly higher profitability and lower risk than single-family rental homes. - [01:49:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6551s) Massive macroeconomic trends, such as retiring Baby Boomers selling legacy small businesses, create major opportunities for buyers using seller financing and modern AI operations. - [01:50:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6609s) Incentivizing key operators through direct profit-sharing rather than speculative equity creates sustainable long-term business performance. - [01:58:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7086s) Entrepreneurs should avoid 'mirage opportunities'—ideas that look promising on paper but face structural industry hurdles like high churn or low user retention. - [02:00:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7233s) Entrepreneurship does not grant absolute freedom; it trades predictable employment stability for autonomy and complex business trade-offs.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) Rethinking Side Hustles and Passive Income

Chris Koerner challenges the traditional obsession with passive income, reframing side hustles as a practical, highly accessible financial vehicle. He points out that roughly 90% of the business ideas he discusses can be launched with $500 or less, easily managed during evenings and weekends. Steven Bartlett introduces three physical cash boxes containing $500, $1,000, and $5,000, setting up a running challenge where Koerner must pitch specific, executable business ideas for each price point throughout their conversation.

``` +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | THE 3 CASH BOX CHALLENGE | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | [ $500 Box ] [ $1,000 Box ] [ $5,000 Box ] | | Low-cost entry, Zero-employee digital Higher leverage, | | hyper-accessible. & service hustles. scalable setup. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ```

Koerner's perspective stems from growing up without financial security, where entrepreneurship served as his sole mechanism to gain control over his life. His first entrepreneurial experience occurred at age nine, living across from a golf course in Utah. Desperate for a red Schwinn bicycle that his parents could not afford, he realized the stray golf balls landing in his yard and neighbor's ditches represented capital. He gathered them, washed them, and erected a plywood sign offering "golf balls 3 for a dollar." That initial experience instilled in him the core lesson that business is inherently approachable and directly tied to problem-solving.

Looking back as a father today, Koerner finds the idea of his own nine-year-old haggling with adults on their doorstep almost unfathomable, yet it laid the foundational mindset for his career. He argues that most people never act on their business ideas due to two main barriers: a deep fear of judgment from others and an inability to connect available digital tools with their operational ideas.

* "I lived across the street from a golf course and these golf balls would fly in my yard... I'd dig through the ditches and I'd pull out all these golf balls... That was my first business." * "The pain of your problem needs to be greater than how much you care about what people think about you." * "Follow the profit until you can afford to follow your passion."

---

[02:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=156s) Building 80+ Businesses and the Serial Entrepreneur Mindset

Across his career, Koerner has launched at least 80 different businesses, tracked meticulously on a personal spreadsheet. Collectively, these ventures have generated low hundreds of millions of dollars in total revenue and low tens of millions in net profit. However, he candidly notes that on a pure numbers basis, the vast majority of these ventures were eventually abandoned, fizzled out, or failed due to opportunity costs, framing business as essentially a high-volume numbers game.

His serial entrepreneurship allowed him and his family to achieve complete financial independence early in life. He built his dream house and had his four children while in his 20s, travels frequently, and maintains a balanced lifestyle centered around his family and community. Despite his success, his children attend local public schools, and he maintains a pragmatic, grounded approach to wealth.

The ultimate differentiator between those who succeed at side hustles and those who fail comes down to ego and public perception. Koerner emphasizes that prospective founders must reach a point where the pain of their current situation outweighs their fear of judgment—especially the fear of social media scrutiny or comments from distant acquaintances. Once an individual shuts off the false belief that everyone is watching or judging them, the entire market becomes accessible.

- **Total Businesses Launched:** 80+ (tracked via personal spreadsheet). - **Cumulative Lifetime Business Revenue:** Low hundreds of millions of dollars. - **Cumulative Lifetime Net Profit:** Low tens of millions of dollars. - **Venture Survival Rate:** The majority of launched ideas failed or were abandoned to focus on higher-yield opportunities.

---

[05:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=333s) The Golden Age of Business Testing & The Copycat Strategy

Koerner asserts that there has never been a better time in human history to launch a business. A decade ago, launching required significant upfront capital, relocating to tech hubs like San Francisco, or raising venture capital. Today, modern AI software tools, fast internet, and ubiquitous platforms allow anyone to generate a fully functional website or mobile application with a single prompt, test demand on local marketplaces, or launch targeted online ads within minutes without quitting their day job.

``` +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | TRADITIONAL VS. MODERN LAUNCH | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 10 YEARS AGO: | | Heavy Capital --> San Francisco VC --> High Overhead --> High Risk | | | | TODAY (AI & DIGITAL TOOLS): | | Single AI Prompt --> Instant Web/App --> Low Capital --> Fast Test | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ```

He dismantles the widespread myth that business is a zero-sum game or that market saturation should prevent someone from starting. Most people abandon an idea the moment they Google it and see a competitor already operating. Koerner takes the exact opposite approach: finding an existing competitor is immediate proof of concept and validation that market demand already exists.

When Koerner spots an active competitor, he treats them as an unpaid pioneer who took all the initial risk. Rather than trying to be radically unique, he uses competitive research tools to inspect their history and model their working system:

- **Web Archive (Wayback Machine):** He examines past snapshots of the competitor’s website over a decade to analyze historical pricing shifts, copy alterations, menu structures, and page designs. - **Similarweb:** He analyzes historic traffic patterns and correlates traffic spikes with site updates (e.g., observing a jump from 3,000 to 4,500 monthly visitors after a mobile redesign). - **Execution:** Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, he copies the core working blueprint from day one without infringing on trademarks or intellectual property.

* "When I do that and I see it exists, I'm like, 'Yes, this is it. Someone went to the front lines of the battlefield and validated this for me.'" * "I don't need to do it better. I don't need to do it differently. I just need to do the same thing."

---

[12:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=773s) Practical Replication: The $9M iPhone Screen Story

To illustrate the power of copying proven business models, Koerner details an early business he built during his college years in 2010. While running a local phone repair operation, he received an unsolicited call from a buyer asking if he had any broken iPhone screens lying around. Koerner had accumulated a box of discarded screens simply because he felt throwing them away was bad for the environment.

The caller offered to pay $3 per broken screen, explaining that they could be shipped to China, fitted with new glass, and resold as remanufactured units. Recognizing the massive untapped potential of this model, Koerner immediately decided to replicate the buyer's business model rather than merely remaining a supplier. Without a blueprint or existing website to copy, he focused purely on the underlying mechanic. That remanufacturing concept scaled rapidly:

``` +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | REMANUFACTURING BUSINESS REVENUE GROWTH | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Year 1: $2,000,000 | | Year 2: $5,000,000 | | Year 3: $9,000,000 | | Outcome: Successful Business Exit | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ```

Koerner points out that pride often holds people back from copying existing models because they feel a false need to appear original or innovative. In reality, adapting established business mechanisms is standard practice among top-tier companies and provides a significantly higher probability of success.

- **Initial Buy Offer:** $3 per broken glass screen. - **Business Progression:** Scaled from $2M in year one to $5M in year two, reaching $9M in year three before being acquired. - **Strategic Takeaway:** You do not need an original idea; capturing a small percentage of an established, validated market is often enough to build a multi-million-dollar enterprise.

[15:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=901s) The Danger of Innovating Too Soon

Chris Koerner explains how he initially got his cell phone screen recycling business off the ground. After noticing someone else cold calling repair shops to buy broken screens, Chris copied the exact play: he searched Alibaba for Chinese suppliers who offered recycling programs, messaged dozens of vendors until roughly 5 to 10% confirmed they did, sent samples, and established a supply chain. Over time, he layered on his own marketing expertise—such as Facebook ads and cold calling strategies—to make the business his own. However, he stresses that if he had tried to "innovate" right away by switching from iPhone screens to Samsung screens (a market that didn't even exist at the time), his ego would have completely killed the opportunity before it started.

Steven Bartlett offers a flight path analogy: taking detours or drifting off course right at takeoff leaves you hundreds of miles away from your destination. In contrast, making slight course corrections mid-flight lets you land close to where you wanted to go—or even somewhere better—because you are layering your own unique experience on top of a proven blueprint. Chris strongly agrees, sharing a painful mistake from an e-commerce fulfillment warehouse business he once ran.

Looking at established competitors, Chris used to arrogantly question their complex pricing structures, which included storage fees, pick-and-pack charges, and expiration-tracking fees. Thinking he was smarter, he launched with a single, simplified flat fee with zero storage charges to differentiate his service. Months later, reality hit: clients went out of business, leaving his warehouse holding massive uncompensated storage bills, while complex order sizes wiped out his margins. He realized those 15-year industry veterans weren't stupid; their seemingly friction-heavy models were the result of learning hard lessons through years of experience.

* **Screen Recycling Blueprint:** Messaged Alibaba suppliers to find the 5–10% willing to recycle screens, built supply lines via sample testing, and scaled via cold calling. * **Fulfillment Business Pitfall:** Eliminating storage and pick/pack fees to "simplify" pricing nearly ruined the business because established competitor pricing structures account for client defaults and handling complexities. * **Core Takeaway:** Never assume competitors are idiots; copy their established models exactly before attempting to iterate or differentiate.

---

[18:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1115s) Old Problems vs. New Problems

Steven reflects on a recent strategy retreat with his executive team where they found themselves criticizing long-standing industry competitors. Caught up in the temptation to reinvent the wheel, Steven stopped and asked, *"Why did our competitor who's been doing this for 50 years end up there?"* He notes that established business models are stress-tested by the market far more than any startup's untested theories, meaning founders should set their egos aside and start with the proven baseline.

This leads to a fundamental distinction in business: 95% of business challenges are "old problems"—such as cash flow, hiring, legal structuring, and finance—where thousands of predecessors have already figured out what works. For old problems, standard expertise and copying proven frameworks is the correct response. "New problems," like those brought on by emerging tech like AI, have no existing playbook and require aggressive experimentation.

Chris agrees wholeheartedly, summarizing his operational philosophy with the phrase: *"Test everything except drugs."* When tackling traditional hiring—an old problem often bogged down by weeks of tedious interview rounds—Chris points to Y Combinator's approach of strict seven-minute interviews. He applies a similar "law of large numbers" strategy, preferring to give five candidates a 30-day paid trial rather than spending 30 days interviewing a single candidate who isn't statistically any more likely to succeed.

* **Business Challenge Split:** ~95% are "old problems" requiring copied expertise; ~5% are "new problems" requiring real-time experimentation. * **Y Combinator Hiring Model:** Uses ultra-short 5- to 7-minute initial interviews to filter candidates rapidly. * **Trial Period Strategy:** Testing 5 people simultaneously over a 30-day period yields better results than spending 30 days interviewing a single person.

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[23:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1404s) The Multi-Million Dollar Buc-ee's Story

Chris shares the story behind one of his most viral ventures involving Buc-ee's, the legendary American mega-convenience store chain. While running his e-commerce fulfillment business, Chris visited a Buc-ee's location with his cousin and business partner. Standing under a massive highway overpass in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, Chris realized that even though Buc-ee's only operated around 50 locations—massive 40,000 to 80,000 square foot travel centers out in the middle of nowhere—their customers had fanatical brand loyalty, similar to Disney.

When Chris checked Buc-ee's website on his phone, he discovered they had no online store or way to buy merchandise. Driven by what he calls his "ADHD crazy guy" energy, he ignored his cousin’s attempts to calm him down. They bought one of every single product in the store—costing thousands of dollars—brought four of his kids along for the haul, set up product photography in their fulfillment warehouse, launched an unofficial e-commerce site, and pitched press outlets with a "viral or bust" mindset.

A reporter fell in love with the story and reached out to Buc-ee's corporate for comment. The resulting article went viral, sparking massive media coverage across major news outlets. In their first 30 days, Chris's unofficial store generated hundreds of thousands of dollars in organic sales. While Buc-ee's corporate requested key adjustments—such as prominent disclaimers stating the site was unaffiliated and removing trademarked terms like "beaver" from the domain—they gave an unofficial verbal blessing to keep operating. Five years later, Chris still owns 100% of the business, which has generated millions of dollars in revenue.

* **Buc-ee's Footprint:** Stores range between 40,000 and 80,000 square feet, generating billions in revenue across roughly 50 locations. * **The Arbitrage:** Capitalized on fanatic brand loyalty by creating an unofficial online store when corporate had zero e-commerce presence. * **Launch Performance:** Generated hundreds of thousands of dollars in organic revenue within the first 30 days without paid ad spend.

---

[27:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1629s) Shrinking the Time Between Idea and Action

When Steven asks how someone can replicate this kind of success, Chris admits that the specific Buc-ee's setup was "lightning in a bottle" and hard to duplicate directly with other brands (noting that similar iconic chains like Trader Joe's are notoriously litigious). However, the broader lesson isn't about finding another gas station brand—it's about dramatically shortening the time between having an idea and taking action on it.

Chris explains that most people experience creative business ideas constantly, but they let them fade away as passing thoughts. Shrinking the gap between thought and execution builds a "bias for action muscle." Every small test, tool learned, or quick experiment compounds over time, creating a self-perpetuating snowball that eventually leads to a diverse portfolio of successful businesses.

Rejecting the idea that he has a unique genius for spotting opportunities, Chris emphasizes that the only difference between him and the average person walking into a store is that he has trained himself to act immediately. By continuously putting ideas to the test, he has desensitized himself to the fear of failure that keeps most people from ever starting.

> "People need to take their curious ideas very seriously. They need to shorten the amount of time spent between having the idea and doing something about that idea, because that will strengthen their bias for action muscle."

[29:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1768s) Is Entrepreneurship for Everyone?

To the average person, entering entrepreneurship can feel intimidating due to a perceived lack of experience, but every expert inevitably started out as a beginner. Chris Koerner explains that trying a business and discovering it doesn't align with your energy is completely acceptable because it checks a box and removes the lingering question. What bothers him most is seeing friends who harbor great, objective business ideas but remain paralyzed by hesitation. He hates watching people live with the regret of never testing the waters to taste entrepreneurship for themselves.

When evaluating which friends belong in the category of future founders versus non-entrepreneurs, Chris looks at how far someone takes an idea beyond initial conversation. Many people text ideas and never follow up, naturally self-selecting out of the process, whereas those who follow up repeatedly and push toward revenue demonstrate true entrepreneurial drive.

* **The High-Earner Risk Dynamic:** An individual in their late 40s earning $400,000 with a family face a risk-reward ratio where leaving stability rarely makes practical sense. * **The Miserable Engineer:** An engineer mid-career who regularly presents brilliant business ideas remains stuck in a job he dislikes due to fear and insecurity about giving up financial security.

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[34:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2064s) The Dilemma of "Burning the Boats" and Plan B

A fundamental flaw in thinking is that one must immediately quit their day job to start a venture. Side hustles can be tested during nights and weekends without forfeiting a primary income. However, Chris notes a fascinating counter-effect: spending 20 hours a week on a side business might generate $50,000, but transitioning to 40 hours full-time can jump that revenue to $500,000. Going all-in forces focus and dramatically escalates results, though it should only be done once a proven, profitable pathway exists—such as scalable, profitable ad campaigns.

The concept of "burning the boats"—destroying any option of retreat—serves as a massive psychological catalyst. Chris shares that twice in his career, third parties effectively burned his boats for him by disrupting his safety nets. Rather than causing failure, these events created a powerful "chip on his shoulder" to prove detractors wrong and make the new island thrive.

> "Insecurities are at the root of our best and our worst selves, and it can drive us to be our best or worst selves depending on how self-aware we are about those insecurities."

* **The Plan B Puzzle Experiment:** A psychological study demonstrated that when students knew a backup reward was available at a vending machine down the hall, they worked significantly less hard to solve a puzzle for a reward than those without a backup. * **Safety Net Timing:** A day job should only be left when customer acquisition is proven, operations are ready to scale, or a clear professional safety net (such as a supportive boss willing to rehire) exists.

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[39:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2350s) The Truth About Passive Income and "Sweaty" Businesses

Passive income is often peddled as a financial cure-all, but true passive income—earning without ongoing effort, like collecting 4% on Treasury bonds—is exceptionally difficult to achieve early on. Beginners must first be willing to build active, messy, "sweaty, ugly income" through unglamorous execution before true passive yield becomes realistic.

Chris shares a personal example of an ugly business he built: a concierge car-buying service in Texas. Holding a used car dealer license permitted him to buy vehicles at wholesale auctions. Clients would request specific models (e.g., a blue 2024 Toyota Sequoia under 30,000 miles), and he would acquire the car for a flat $700 fee. While profitable and free of inventory risk, Chris hated breaking down on the side of the road in the Texas heat because he was not a "car guy." He ultimately shut it down to pursue other ventures.

* **Definition of Passive Income:** Earnings generated without continuous active labor, typically requiring significant upfront capital or hard active work first. * **Concierge Car-Buying Model:** Purchasing tailored vehicles directly at wholesale auctions for buyers in exchange for a flat service fee ($700 per transaction).

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[41:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2515s) Following Profit vs. Following Passion

A common misconception is that a business must stem from a personal passion. Chris advocates for a clear sequence: "follow the profit until you can afford to follow your passion." Expecting what you love and what makes money to overlap from day one usually leads to failure. Instead, entrepreneurs should fall in love with the process of commerce itself—the skill of turning $1 into $2.

People often mistake a lack of energy for laziness, but human drive depends heavily on whether the work aligns with one's interests. Broadening your "surface area" by testing diverse ideas allows you to discover where commercial opportunity meets execution. Over time, this iteration leads to the *Ikigai* intersection: where what you love, what you are good at, what the world needs, and what you can get paid for all align.

* **The Ikigai Principle:** The convergence point of passion, skill, societal need, and monetization potential. * **Skills Over Passion:** Building an early business—even in an industry like marketing for corporate giants—teaches foundational mechanics that fund and inform future, passion-led endeavors.

Here is the detailed walkthrough covering this part of the conversation.

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[45:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2720s) Focus, Distraction, and Signals of Product-Market Fit

Steven Bartlett reflects on his own journey after selling his previous business, recalling how he spent time experimenting with psychedelics, DJing, building software, and exploring Web3. Eventually, he arrived at his "Ikigai" question: *Of all the things I've tried, what is the one thing I would do regardless of money?* In 2020, the answer was launching *The Diary Of A CEO*. He moved from New York to London and rented a place sight unseen purely because the living space looked like a great podcast set. However, he acknowledges that he only had the luxury and skillset to build it after years of prior business experience and having the capital to afford setup costs like £50,000 in camera equipment.

Chris Koerner builds on this, highlighting that people often beat themselves up over a lack of focus. Instead of viewing distraction as a personal flaw, Chris views a lack of focus as an important signal that a business or project lacks true product-market fit. When an entrepreneur finds a business that is genuinely crushing it, they are naturally consumed by it and stop looking for side projects.

> "A lack of focus is a signal that there's something else out there... Why am I distracted from this thing?"

* **The Ikigai Alignment:** Steven pursued podcasting only after trying multiple unrelated fields, discovering it was the one thing he would do regardless of financial gain. * **Capital Prerequisite:** Steven notes that starting the podcast required around £50,000 (~$50k+) in equipment and prior experience scaling an audience. * **Distraction as a Indicator:** Chris argues that getting distracted by new ideas usually means your current project isn't generating enough pull or success to hold your full attention.

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[47:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2830s) Filtering Ideas: The "Sunday Shelf" and the Two-Week Rule

The conversation turns to how both entrepreneurs filter and manage their flood of new business ideas without getting derailed. Steven shares his personal system: a digital board called his **"Sunday Shelf"** on Monday.com. When hit with late-night inspiration, he parks the idea on the shelf to see if it continues to pull at him over time. He observes the "excitement arc" of new ideas—moving from initial euphoria (*"I'm going to be a billionaire!"*) down into the "valley of despair" (*"This is a terrible idea"*). If an idea still pulls him up out of that valley, it is worth pursuing.

Chris shares his own benchmark: the **Two-Week Rule**. He lets an idea sit in his mind for two weeks. If he finds himself sending manic voice notes to friends, doing background research, and constantly noticing real-world details that reinforce the concept after 14 days, he knows it is a signal worth acting on.

> "If I can come out of that valley, if something pulls me up out of that valley, then I think it's worth pursuing."

* **Steven’s Sunday Shelf:** A dedicated Monday.com board where late-night business ideas sit until proven irresistible. * **The Excitement Arc:** The natural psychological cycle ranging from peak hype to the valley of despair before reaching realistic execution. * **Chris's Two-Week Rule:** If an idea still dominates his thoughts and sparks manic voice notes after two weeks, it passes the first filter.

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[48:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2929s) Validating Ideas in Person: The Cookie Bar Example

When asked what validation truly means, Chris explains that true validation is observing authentic customer delight rather than polite compliments. A business pushing a boulder up a hill is merely surviving, whereas true product-market fit feels like a boulder chasing you down a hill—where customer demand keeps you awake at night fulfilling orders.

To illustrate in-person validation, Chris uses the example of his wife's square cookie bar business. While they created it primarily to teach their kids entrepreneurship, they tested the product directly at local farmers' markets. Rather than relying on online feedback from family who might lie out of kindness, they watched strangers' real-time body language and facial expressions as they took their first bites.

``` THE VALIDATION SPECTRUM

[ Pushing a Boulder Up ] ---> [ Boulder Chasing You ] - Two steps forward/back - Overwhelmed by orders - Polite feedback - Real customer delight - High friction sales - Natural market pull ```

* **In-Person Body Language:** Observing real-time reactions in person eliminates polite untruths from friends and family. * **The "Boulder" Analogy:** 5% of successful businesses achieve the state where customer demand chases the founder down a hill. * **Validation Definition:** Rapidly testing if the market genuinely gives a damn about what you are building.

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[52:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3122s) Stress-Testing an Idea: The Facebook Framework

Steven references Eric Ries's book *The Lean Startup* and asks how an aspiring founder can test a Minimum Viable Product (MVP) quickly without quitting their job or raising capital. Chris reveals his framework using Meta's suite of products (Facebook Marketplace, Groups, Pages, and Ads) as an all-in-one validation testing ground.

To demonstrate, Steven proposes a mock business idea: **a women's creatine supplement that actually tastes good**. Chris walks through a step-by-step experiment:

1. **Generate Mockups:** Use AI image generators (ChatGPT, Nano Banana) to generate clean product renders for two form factors: gummies and powder. 2. **Post Listing 1 (Gummies):** Create a Facebook Marketplace listing highlighting benefits (e.g., cognitive function, taste) using the gummy render. 3. **Post Listing 2 (Powder):** Create an identical listing keeping all variables (headline, copy, local radius, price point) the same, altering only the render to show powder. 4. **Track Data:** Monitor clicks, views, and messages in a simple Google Sheet over 2 hours to measure immediate consumer interest. 5. **Boost & Expand:** Put $10 behind each listing to test paid engagement, then create ~10 variations testing different headlines, images, and price points. 6. **Community Mining:** Join niche Facebook Groups (e.g., "Moms Who Workout", "Ultrarunner Moms") and search key terms to gauge user pain points and existing demand.

> "Focus is overrated and momentum is underrated... My first step is going to be something very low friction because I want you to get something back from the world."

* **Meta's Product Suite:** Facebook Marketplace, Groups, WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook Pages, and Meta Ads provide a complete ecosystem for low-cost validation. * **Rapid Data Collection:** A split-test on Facebook Marketplace can yield clear directional data within two hours for zero capital outlay. * **Phase Two Sourcing:** Only after collecting clear test data would Chris approach a co-packer or supplement manufacturer to request physical samples for farmers' market taste testing.

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[57:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3431s) Facebook Ads as an Essential Founder Skill

Chris strongly advocates that every entrepreneur must learn the fundamentals of Facebook Ads, calling them an "infinite money glitch" and the core reason Meta is a trillion-dollar company. Rather than endlessly watching YouTube tutorials, founders should learn by actually setting up and running live campaigns.

* **Timeline to Proficiency:** An individual can become proficient in Facebook Ads within a couple of days by running real campaigns for a specific product. * **Foundational Skill:** Chris compares knowing Facebook Ads to basic operational skills like writing emails or building websites. * **Agency Arbitrage:** The shortage of people who master paid social ads is the exact reason digital agencies can charge premium retainers.

*(Note: to includes a sponsor read for LinkedIn Ads targeting B2B decision-makers).*

---

[59:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3594s) Entrepreneur Types: Starters, Maintainers, and Finishers

Chris touches on the core personality types found in entrepreneurship, categorizing founders into three distinct buckets: **Starters** (0-to-1 builders), **Maintainers** (operators who manage growth), and **Finishers** (executives who scale to exit or optimize mature operations). Chris identifies himself unhesitatingly as a 0-to-1 Starter, noting that staying in a mature business too long causes him to lose momentum.

* **Starter (0 to 1):** Obsessed with the initial spark, rapid validation, and initial traction. * **Maintainer:** Skilled at process, team management, and keeping operations running smoothly. * **Finisher:** Focused on hyper-scaling, corporate governance, and positioning for acquisitions.

[01:00:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3611s) The Three Types of Entrepreneurs: Starters, Maintainers, and Finishers

Chris breaks down his operational philosophy on how businesses scale, explaining that he knows his limitations and must hand off control at a specific stage or bring in the right co-founder early on. He categorizes entrepreneurs into three distinct archetypes: **Starters**, **Maintainers**, and **Finishers**.

* **Starters (Visionaries):** These are the "idea machines." They aren't just brainstorming big company concepts; they are coming up with marketing tweaks, novel subject lines, and creative directions. Chris firmly places himself in this category. * **Maintainers (Operators):** These individuals thrive on structure and daily execution. They wake up eager to optimize processes, solve incremental operational issues, and systematically build on what already exists. * **Finishers (Dealmakers):** The super-connectors. They get an influx of energy from introducing key people, structuring creative exit strategies, bringing on top-tier executive talent, and driving a company across the finish line to a sale or acquisition.

When Steven asks if it is possible for one person to be all three, Chris points out that individuals who embody all three traits are vanishingly rare—naming Mark Zuckerberg, Jensen Huang, and Elon Musk as examples of leaders who built companies from scratch to trillion-dollar valuations. While Steven notes that many entrepreneurs manage to go from zero to a billion, Chris emphasizes that mastering all three roles is what yields legendary, trillion-dollar outcomes.

[01:02:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3725s) The Myth of Hyper-Focus vs. Energy and Freedom

Steven brings up conversations with business figures like Kevin O'Leary and Walter Isaacson regarding the obsession with focus seen in iconic founders. He notes how Steve Jobs was described as "80% signal and 20% noise," how Jony Ive emphasized Jobs's relentless ability to say no, and how Mark Zuckerberg blocked out all non-mobile discussions when Meta lagged on mobile. Similarly, Elon Musk is described as operating near "100% signal," zoning out of meetings until the absolute priority is raised. Steven contrasts this hyper-focused, single-minded approach with Chris’s history of launching 80+ side hustles.

Chris responds candidly: while hyper-focus increases the odds of becoming a billionaire, maintaining momentum and enjoying the process makes someone far more likely to achieve multi-millionaire status while actually enjoying life. He shares that he has zero desire to be a billionaire or to leave tens of millions of dollars to his heirs, viewing life on an eternal scale rather than exhausting himself for fourth-generation wealth.

> "If my life with hyper-focused Chris looks like billion-dollar exits, reporting to a board, sitting in meetings all day... that's miserable Chris. Why am I making Chris miserable so my fourth-great-grandkids can be rich instead of just my second-great-grandkids?"

* Chris has tested the corporate/focused path—earning his MBA and finishing his undergrad—and realized that boardrooms, endless meetings, and constant travel consume the very time he wants to spend being a present father. * He views his ability to launch businesses with an iPhone as his way of having a massive positive impact without needing to solve world hunger or run a mega-corporation. * Over a 17-year journey, he experienced more years with zero income than "up years," but the successful years overwhelmingly compensated for the downturns, backed by the unwavering support of his wife.

[01:07:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4024s) Failure, Guilt, and the Stress of the Grind

The conversation turns vulnerable as Steven asks if Chris ever felt guilty about the financial strain his entrepreneurial risks placed on his family. Chris admits to feeling deep guilt on multiple occasions. He recounts spending 18 months focused on a single high-upside project with zero cash flow. To protect his family's lifestyle, he sold off personal assets and rental properties behind the scenes so they wouldn't feel the financial crunch. When that project ultimately failed and went to zero, he was left out of time, money, and energy.

During those tough seasons, Chris explains that his coping mechanism was to internalize the stress, becoming quiet and moody rather than burdening his wife with office worries. Steven relates strongly, sharing that he also prefers not to talk about work stress at home because re-explaining the problem causes double the stress. However, both acknowledge the paradox: keeping partners in the dark can lead to misunderstandings, friction, and even more tension, highlighting the crucial need for a healthy external outlet or peer network.

[01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4200s) Rejection, Sales, and the 2-Year Hungarian Mission

Addressing rejection, Chris reveals a surprising truth: despite launching dozens of businesses, he considers himself an introvert who is openly bad at—and still dislikes—traditional sales. Early in his career, pride kept him from pitching side projects to friends and family on Facebook because he feared their judgment, forcing him to learn how to acquire strangers as customers completely from scratch.

His relationship with rejection was forged during a two-year church mission in Eastern Europe, where he knocked on doors and approached strangers on the street in freezing weather—in Hungarian—wearing a giant Russian hat.

> "I got rejected tens of thousands of times over the course of two years... that rewired my brain to just realize that every 'no' is closer to a 'yes.'"

* **The Numbers Game:** Chris views sales as pure math. If his conversion rate is 0.1%, he knows he simply has to talk to 1,000 people to get a sale; if the first 1,000 fail, the law of averages will catch up over the next 1,000. * **Iterative Learning:** Experiencing thousands of rejections allows an entrepreneur to test 1,000 different approaches, quickly adjusting copy and messaging to raise conversion rates from 0.1% up to 5%. * **Parenting Philosophy:** Chris encourages his own four children (two introverts, two extroverts) to run small side hustles and go on missions or do cold sales, calling it the single fastest way to build resilience and real-world skills.

[01:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4350s) Why Most Business Partnerships Fail

When asked for advice on team building and co-founders, Chris gives a stark warning: most people do not need a business partner, and companies with co-founders actually fail at a significantly higher rate than solo-founded ventures due to partner friction. He explains that society suffers from survivorship bias—focusing on famous co-founder duos like Apple while ignoring the 80% to 90% of joint ventures that collapse.

Chris uses a vivid analogy comparing business partnerships to marriage:

> "When we get married, we'll spend years talking about our potential plans... But when we choose a business partner, we go get avocado toast together and we're like, '50-50, cool, sounds good. Let's do this.'... Business partnerships are significantly harder than marriages even, but we put 99% less thought into the structure."

Having had around 15 business partners throughout his career, Chris reflects that his biggest mistake was not understanding himself or structuring the agreements properly before jumping in. Just as in dating, he notes that the best way to find a good partner is to first understand your own strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies.

[01:14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4483s) Solo-Founding, Self-Discovery, and the Realities of Equity Splits

When entrepreneurs launch a new venture, they often jump into partnerships without understanding their own strengths or weaknesses—let alone those of their partner. Solo-founding a first business is a crucial exercise in self-discovery: it reveals whether someone is fundamentally a visionary, an integrator, a starter, a maintainer, or a finisher. Once founders understand their personal profile, they are far better equipped to find a complementary co-founder for their next venture.

When it comes to structuring equity, the standard fallback is a 50/50 split, but that arrangement is far more fragile than people realize. For a 50/50 partnership to survive long-term, both founders must remain equally all-in for years or decades, contribute identical financial capital, effort, network connections, and background experience, and maintain complete selflessness when the other takes time off. Furthermore, both co-founders must grow and evolve at the exact same trajectory over time—a scenario that virtually never happens in reality. Defining equity too early (over a casual brunch) or too late (two years in, after revenue is flowing) leads to deep-seated resentment and conflict whether the business succeeds wildly or fails.

Instead of locking into a 50/50 split on day one, founders should establish a dynamic equity structure bound to clear milestones. A practical framework involves agreeing to work together toward a concrete metric—such as reaching $10,000 in revenue or securing a specific number of customers—and setting a calendar date at that milestone to formalize equity. This approach accounts for real-world asymmetries, such as one partner bringing 30 years of industry contacts while the other works 80 hours a week as the primary operator. While equal partnerships between long-time friends can occasionally yield extraordinary companies, they carry a significantly higher failure rate due to these evolving dynamics.

- **Foundational self-awareness:** Founders must learn whether they are a visionary, integrator, starter, maintainer, or finisher before partnering. - **Why 50/50 splits fail:** They require identical commitments, resources, selflessness, and long-term growth rates between partners across many years. - **The Equity Milestone Framework:** Agree to hit a specific metric (e.g., $10,000 in revenue or product-market fit) before sitting down to lock in equity percentages. - **Asymmetric value contributions:** A veteran making one game-changing phone call versus an 18-year-old operator putting in 80 hours a week creates inherent tension that standard splits rarely handle well. - **Investor observation:** Equal splits tend to succeed primarily when partners are late in their careers, have worked together for 5+ years, and face fewer personal life disruptors.

> "Could you imagine if you go on a first date and it's like, 'How many kids do you want? Four. Okay, we'll have four. We'll get married and that's how many we will have.' That's a 50/50 partnership."

---

[01:20:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4854s) Turning $500 into a Business: AI Implementation for Small Businesses

Starting a business with $500 is entirely realistic in an era dominated by 30-day free trials and heavily subsidized software platforms. The single best business opportunity available for that amount of capital is an AI implementation agency targeting small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs). Out of roughly 400 million small businesses globally, surveys show that 77% of owners acknowledge AI would be transformational for their operations, yet only 5% actively use AI in a meaningful way. This creates a massive "business cognitive dissonance" where business owners recognize the necessity of AI but lack the time or technical skill to implement it themselves.

To capture this opportunity, an entrepreneur can allocate around $100 toward learning low-code or "vibe coding" tools—such as Replit, Lovable, or Lindy—which allow non-technical individuals to build functional applications using natural language prompts. After creating a basic website for their agency, the remaining $400 should be funnelled into local Meta (Facebook) ads targeted at local business owners within a specific radius. Ads should bypass complex jargon like "LLMs" or "ChatGPT" in favor of simple, fifth-grade language: *"I will make your business more money or save your business money with AI."*

Once discovery calls are secured, the agency founder uncovers operational bottlenecks—typically around sales or after-hours customer response—and builds custom prototypes using AI tools. For example, a local gutter cleaning business owner who misses late-night $3,000 inquiries while off the clock can be set up with an AI voice agent. By demonstrating how the agent answers instantly and handles caller inquiries without latency, the owner is easily sold on the solution. Founders can charge an upfront implementation fee between $500 and $5,000, alongside an ongoing monthly retainer of 20% (around $500 to $600 per month) for maintenance—and then replicate that exact build across identical businesses in other regions.

- **Global market gap:** 77% of SMB owners believe AI is crucial, but only 5% currently implement it effectively. - **Definition of "vibe coding":** Non-technical entrepreneurs using natural language prompts on platforms like Replit, Lovable, or Lindy to auto-generate functional apps and software. - **Capital allocation ($500 budget):** ~$100 for tool subscriptions and website hosting; ~$400 for targeted local Meta advertisements. - **Pricing model:** $500 to $5,000 upfront setup fee plus a 20% recurring monthly maintenance retainer ($500–$600/month). - **Practical example:** Building an after-hours AI voice agent for a gutter cleaning business to catch missed late-night service calls worth $3,000. - **Historical arbitrage precedent:** Today's AI implementation wave mirrors selling Facebook ads to local businesses out of the Yellow Pages during the mid-2010s, where simple technical knowledge bridged a massive market gap.

> "Vibe coding is the non-technical person, the non-coder such as myself using their natural language to just say, 'Hey, build me an app that manages customers for dog trainers.'"

> "I'm going to use fifth grade words. I'm not going to use LLM. I'm not even going to say ChatGPT. I'm just going to say, 'I will make your business more money or save your business money with AI.'"

---

[01:27:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5273s) Physical Business Models and the Concept of Drop Servicing

For entrepreneurs interested in physical or service-based businesses rather than pure software agencies, "drop servicing" presents a compelling model with low startup costs. While drop shipping involves selling physical goods manufactured abroad that are shipped directly from supplier to customer, drop servicing applies that same middleman mechanism to local home services.

Under the drop servicing framework, an entrepreneur builds a hyper-local, professional website for a service—such as garage door repair or home maintenance—that functions primarily as a lead generation engine. Rather than physically performing the repairs or simply selling raw leads to contractors for a low fee, the business owner acts as the primary agency that handles customer acquisition through digital advertising while contracting out the actual physical fulfillment to existing local service technicians.

- **Drop shipping vs. Drop servicing:** Drop shipping fulfills physical products directly from overseas suppliers, while drop servicing white-labels local contractor services under a branded lead-generation front end. - **Core marketing channels:** Uses Google Search Ads and Meta Ads to capture high-intent local home service inquiries. - **Monetization shift:** Transitions from selling cheap $20 leads to owning the client relationship and capturing a significant margin on the full service ticket.

[01:28:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5328s) Drop Servicing Mechanics: Lowering Friction and Arbitraging User Experience

Chris Koerner elaborates on the business mechanics of drop servicing local home and automotive services. In this model, the founder acts exclusively as the marketing and customer acquisition arm, while subcontracting 100% of the actual labor to a local service provider—such as a garage door repair company or an auto mechanic. The founder never visits a site or turns a wrench; they simply capture customer demand online and route the job to a local technician.

Illustrating this with an auto repair concept, Steven Bartlett maps out the transaction: a founder builds a polished car-repair website, runs Meta ads to capture leads, collects payment from the end customer, and hires a local mechanic to perform the actual work. Koerner details how the pricing and margin work in practice. A local mechanic—say, "Bob's Car Repair"—might charge $40 for an oil change on his own basic terms because he lacks a functional online booking system or web presence. The founder creates a clean, modern website where customers can book and pay $80 in a few clicks. When Mary books an oil change for her Toyota Sequoia on the founder's site, the founder receives $80, calls Bob, pays him his standard $40 rate, and sends Mary to his shop. The founder makes a higher margin than the mechanic without managing inventory or labor, purely by providing a seamless user interface and checkout experience.

Koerner points out that this strategy works across almost any home or local service niche—such as plumbing, HVAC, or general home repairs—because the vast majority of local trade businesses suffer from abysmal websites and poor customer experience. Higher-margin service sectors like roofing are occasionally an exception, as larger profit margins allow those operators to invest in better digital infrastructure.

- **Drop Servicing Value Prop:** Monopolizing the customer interface and charging a premium for convenience, clean UI, and instant booking while outsourcing fulfillment. - **Arbitrage Math:** Charging $80 for a service that the local provider bills at $40 leaves $40 gross profit per job, less ad spend. - **Target Sectors:** Local home services and trade businesses with outdated digital tools or nonexistent web booking.

---

[01:30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5444s) Permissionless Marketing with Micro-Directory Websites

Shifting to another scalable business model doable with under $500, Koerner highlights the power of hyper-niche directory websites. Drawing parallels to massive platforms like Travelocity or Yelp, he explains how founders can build lightweight directories targeting ultra-specific search queries—such as "Wisconsin ice suppliers"—where standard search aggregators like Google Maps often fail to deliver structured, categorized results due to market fragmentation.

Instead of paying for traffic, founders build directories by scraping niche data (for example, listing every dog park in Seattle) and creating structured directory pages using low-code or AI build tools like Replit or Lovable. Once launched, the sites rely entirely on organic search engine optimization (SEO) over time. Because the underlying architecture can be built once and cloned across dozens of cities or categories, founders can deploy many sites cheaply. While some directories earn nothing, others generate several hundred or thousands of dollars per month in near-passive income.

Revenue is generated through two primary streams: display ad networks (such as Google AdSense), which can be toggled on automatically without manual sales outreach, or direct lead monetization via "permissionless marketing." Under the latter approach, once Google Analytics shows a directory sending organic foot traffic or calls to a listed business, the owner reaches out to offer priority site placement for a monthly or annual fee (e.g., $300/year). Because the business was listed for free initially, the pitch presents zero downside and proven value.

- **Setup Cost:** Under $100 to build and host using AI/low-code platforms like Replit or Lovable. - **Growth Strategy:** Replicating the same underlying site architecture across dozens of geographical regions or micro-niches. - **Monetization Paths:** Automated display ad networks or charging listed businesses a recurring subscription ($300/year) for top-tier placement.

---

[01:33:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5612s) Bootstrapping a Vending Machine Route for $500

Turning to physical offline businesses, Koerner and Bartlett break down how to launch a vending machine business on a $500 budget. Koerner details how to buy a used snack or drink machine on Facebook Marketplace for $300 to $400. He notes that the credit card reader is often the single most expensive component on a machine, sometimes costing as much as the box itself. The remaining $100 is used to purchase inventory in bulk from wholesale clubs like Costco or Sam's Club, where professional vending operators source their stock.

The primary hurdle is securing a high-traffic location. A founder only needs one local business owner—such as an auto repair shop or an apartment complex—to agree to host the machine in exchange for $100 a month in rent or a 30% revenue split. Securing that first location creates a case study to pitch additional property owners. While restocking and securing new locations require active labor, routine restocking can eventually be hired out to an employee. In contrast, ATM routes offer an even more passive variation, as cash management companies can be hired to manage physical bills.

Koerner shares that he previously imported and sold vending machines after an Instagram video he posted generated tens of millions of views. He notes that scaling a vending route has virtually no ceiling; a friend of his in San Diego generates seven figures annually selling standard snacks and drinks. Although his friend initially tried stocking healthy snacks assuming San Diego's health-conscious demographic would demand them, the healthy options failed. Customers overwhelmingly demanded traditional comfort snacks—specifically Doritos, Coca-Cola, and Diet Coke. Profitability follows the 80/20 rule: out of 100 machines, roughly 20 high-performing locations might make $3,000 per month each, while the remaining 80 pull in $400 per month.

- **Initial Capital Breakdown:** $300–$400 for a secondhand machine via Facebook Marketplace; $100 for bulk snacks/drinks from Costco or Sam's Club. - **Location Economics:** Hosts are offered a flat $100/month fee or a 30% revenue share. - **Top Performing Products:** Standard high-demand items like Doritos, regular Coke, and Diet Coke consistently out-sell healthy alternatives. - **Prime Locations:** Apartment complex lobbies outperform auto repair waiting rooms due to higher consistent foot traffic.

---

[01:38:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5899s) Building a $1,000 Event Rental Business Targeting Wedding Planners

Transitioning to a $1,000 capital tier, Koerner introduces the high-margin world of outdoor wedding and event rentals. Driven by the trend of outdoor weddings—which now make up roughly 75% of ceremonies and continue to rise—demand for specialized wooden decor, props, and custom installations has surged.

Koerner references a case study of a creator who spent $200 to $300 on 2x4 lumber to build a custom wooden wedding arch in his garage, subsequently renting it out for $1,000 per event. Rather than marketing directly to brides—who are one-time buyers—the business owner scraped contact directories on platforms like The Knot, Zola, and WeddingWire to pitch wedding planners directly. Because wedding planners handle dozens of events a year, securing a single planner relationship can yield recurring weekly rentals.

With $1,000 in startup capital, a founder can allocate $300 for raw building materials, $100 for web scraping tools to compile planner contacts, $100 for outreach or fuel, and $100 to rent a truck and trailer from Home Depot to transport the equipment. The remaining cash can be reserved for digital ads or profit. Beyond wedding arches, other high-demand rental items include photo backdrops, mobile charcuterie carts, and portable pizza ovens. Bartlett humorously notes that the same business logic applies to funerals, another industry backed by steady demographic demand.

> "He doesn't go through the brides. He goes through the wedding planners because surface area—they're touching all kinds of weddings on a regular basis." — Chris Koerner

- **Budget Allocation:** $300 materials, $100 lead-scraping software, $100 fuel/outreach, $100 Home Depot truck rental, leaving $400 in reserve. - **B2B Strategy:** Scrape planner directories on The Knot and Zola to build recurring distribution channels rather than chasing individual couples. - **High-Demand Props:** Wooden wedding arches, photo backdrops, custom charcuterie carts, and portable pizza stations.

---

[01:41:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6069s) Hyper-Local Email Newsletters Built via Paid Acquisition

Koerner breaks down how to build a profitable online media business using $1,000 in paid Meta advertising to grow a hyper-local email newsletter. The model focuses on mid-sized cities (e.g., Boise, Idaho, with a population of ~200,000) where residents want updates on local events, news, and business discounts.

Using free-tier email marketing platforms like Beehiit or ConvertKit, a founder spends $0 on software upfront and invests the full $1,000 into targeted Facebook and Instagram ads inside a tight geographic radius. At an acquisition cost of $0.50 to $1.00 per local subscriber, $1,000 yields an initial list of roughly 1,000 local readers. Koerner emphasizes that the content should be written naturally by a human rather than generated via ChatGPT, as local readers respond to an authentic, personal tone.

Monetization relies on local business sponsorships. Because roughly 10% of adults own a business, a 1,000-subscriber local newsletter automatically includes around 100 local business owners on its reader list. After establishing consistent open rates over the first month, the founder includes a simple callout in the newsletter offering sponsored ad placements (e.g., $500 per send). Selling just one or two ad spots quickly recoups the initial $1,000 ad investment while establishing a recurring media asset.

- **Unit Economics:** Acquiring local subscribers via Meta ads costs $0.50 to $1.00 per reader; advertising slots can command ~$0.50 per subscriber per month. - **Platform Stack:** Free-tier email tools (Beehiiv, ConvertKit) combined with hyper-local geo-targeted Meta ads. - **Sponsorship Strategy:** Converting the ~10% of local business owners already reading the newsletter into paying sponsors at $500 per email send.

[01:43:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6192s) Scaling Digital Newsletters and Moving to $5,000 Capital

Chris Koerner finishes explaining the economics of local newsletter acquisition, noting that spending $1,000 to acquire digital subscribers quickly pays for itself through steady recurring revenue. Because a local market like Boise, Idaho, has a finite size, the growth model relies on copying and pasting the proven template into larger or adjacent cities.

Steven Bartlett shifts the discussion upward to the next tier of starting capital by presenting a briefcase containing $5,000. He asks Chris what specific side hustle or business venture he would launch with that level of capital. Chris points out that as you move up the sliding scale from zero to $5,000, true passive income transitions from an unrealistic dream into a practical, attainable reality.

[01:44:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6245s) The Untapped Potential of Small RV Parks

Chris reveals that his top business recommendation for a $5,000 budget is investing in small RV (Recreational Vehicle) parks—a sector he has actively operated in for about seven years. He breaks down the two primary types of RV parks: long-term parks where full-time residents (such as retirees on fixed incomes, blue-collar workers, and digital nomads) live for months or years, and short-term recreational parks located near major tourist destinations like the Grand Canyon where guests stay for a few nights at a time.

``` ┌──────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ RV PARK OPPORTUNITIES │ └────────────────────┬─────────────────────┘ │ ┌──────────────────────────┴──────────────────────────┐ ▼ ▼ ┌───────────────────────┐ ┌───────────────────────┐ │ Long-Term Residential │ │ Short-Term Tourist │ ├───────────────────────┤ ├───────────────────────┤ │ • Months to years │ │ • 1 to 4 nights │ │ • Retirees & nomads │ │ • Major attractions │ └───────────────────────┘ └───────────────────────┘ ```

Chris strongly questions why retail investors default to buying single-family residential rental properties when small RV parks containing 3 to 10 pad sites offer 3 to 10 times the profitability for a similar total purchase price. Furthermore, an RV park distributes credit and default risk across multiple tenants rather than placing 100% of the risk on a single residential tenant who could default or vacate unexpectedly.

* Chris recommends searching for small parks manually on Google Maps within a 3-hour driving radius. * With zero ad budget allocated to finding deals, phone calls must be made manually using an iPhone. * Out of every 100 small RV parks contacted directly, approximately two to three present viable investment opportunities.

[01:45:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6352s) Executing Creative Seller Financing on RV Parks

Because the $5,000 budget cannot cover a traditional real estate down payment, Chris outlines how to structure a deal purely using seller financing and creative deal structures. He allocates $2,000 of the capital strictly for upfront due diligence, including professional park inspections and title policies to verify ownership and avoid fraud. The remaining $3,000 serves as essential operating capital for immediate cleanup, trimming trees, and covering early utility bills.

To secure seller financing, the buyer must build personal trust with the seller, demonstrating that they will manage and improve the asset responsibly. In real estate, commercial parks are valued on a capitalization rate (cap rate) basis, calculated by dividing the annual net operating profit by the overall purchase price. A park purchased at a 10% cap rate for $200,000 yields $20,000 in net annual profit.

``` $200,000 Purchase Price (10% Cap Rate) ==> $20,000 Annual Net Profit [ Optimization: Free Ads + Vibe-Coded Website + Rent Adjustment ] $360,000 Retargeted Value (8% Cap Rate) ==> $30,000 Annual Net Profit ```

* Many small parks lack websites, charge undermarket rents, and suffer from low occupancy due to poor marketing. * Placing free ads on Facebook Marketplace and creating a simple website using a vibe coding application can boost occupancy and drive annual profit from $20,000 up to $30,000. * Increasing net income compresses the cap rate to an industry standard 8%, raising the park's total valuation from $200,000 to approximately $360,000. * Under seller financing, the seller holds the debt note and earns interest; if the buyer defaults, the seller reclaims the updated asset along with all previous cash payments. * Across 35 mobile home and RV parks over seven years, Chris has generated $400,000 to $600,000 in net profit on $3 million to $4 million in annual revenue.

[01:49:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6551s) Capitalizing on Macro Trends: Baby Boomer Retirements and AI

When analyzing high-level macro shifts to choose new businesses, Chris highlights two unavoidable secular trends: the rapid advancement of artificial intelligence and the massive wave of retiring Baby Boomers. With roughly 10,000 Baby Boomers retiring every single day over the next decade, a historic volume of legacy small businesses will need new owners or modernization.

Chris identifies two major plays in this landscape: either buying these aging small businesses directly using seller financing, or applying modern AI productivity tools to streamline old-economy operations. While securing seller financing on operating businesses is somewhat more difficult than on real estate assets, it remains a lucrative pathway for acquiring cash-flowing operations with minimal upfront capital.

[01:50:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6609s) Operator Trust, Cash Flow, and Equity Pitfalls

Reflecting on his most lucrative business ventures—his RV parks and his Texas-themed e-commerce snack company—Chris notes that their success was not due to the industries being easy. In fact, e-commerce and real estate are notoriously difficult. Instead, these businesses thrived because Chris reached an entrepreneurial maturity level where he successfully hired exceptional daily operators to manage them, preventing the businesses from collapsing when his own attention shifted.

When selecting operators, Chris relies on deep personal trust, noting a direct correlation between longstanding personal relationships and operating performance. He incentivizes managers through direct profit-sharing rather than issuing equity. Reflecting on his 20s, Chris admits he overused equity promises as a carrot, only to realize that "most equity goes to zero, period." In his 30s, he prioritizes distribution of real cash flow on a quarterly schedule over speculative equity ownership.

[01:52:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6733s) The Deep-Sea Fishing Analogy for Entrepreneurial Experimentation

Chris addresses his approach to rapid experimentation through a vivid personal story about deep-sea fishing. While fishing offshore with no success using standard commercial lures, the boat captain cut up red-and-yellow striped McDonald's drinking straws, threaded them onto the line above the hooks, and cast them back out. The improvised, rotating straw lures immediately began attracting constant bites because the spinning colors mimicked small baitfish.

``` ┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ THE McDONALD'S STRAW LESSON │ └────────────────────────┬────────────────────────┘ │ ┌──────────────────────────┴──────────────────────────┐ ▼ ▼ ┌─────────────────────────┐ ┌─────────────────────────┐ │ Standard Lures │ │ McDonald's Straw Lures │ ├─────────────────────────┤ ├─────────────────────────┤ │ • Zero bites │ │ • High-frequency bites │ │ • Conventional methods │ │ • Unconventional test │ │ • Early frustration │ │ • Unlocks new signal │ └─────────────────────────┘ └─────────────────────────┘ ```

Chris uses this memory as a metaphor for entrepreneurship, describing the market as a vast ocean filled with diverse opportunities. Most aspiring entrepreneurs throw out a conventional hook a few times, get no immediate results, and quit to return to a 9-to-5 job. In reality, success requires continuously testing subtle variables—adjusting depths, changing scents, trying unorthodox baits, and listening for market "bites" as positive feedback signals to double down on.

* Unsexy, overlooked industries offer higher success rates because widespread desire for "sexy" tech ventures creates extreme, unnecessary competition. * Rapid testing of cheap business ideas relieves the mental strain of wondering "what if," allowing failed experiments to be discarded quickly without heavy financial loss.

[01:55:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6936s) Playing to Unfair Advantages and Spotting "Mirage Opportunities"

Moving forward, Chris focuses exclusively on ventures where he holds a clear "unfair advantage" or a distinct right to win. An unfair advantage is not limited to wealthy or hyper-experienced founders; even a 13-year-old may hold an unfair advantage in understanding popular gaming platforms or youth culture better than adults. When filtering a spreadsheet of potential business ideas, Chris prioritizes concepts that leverage his content distribution, specialized industry knowledge, or existing personal networks.

Steven introduces his concept of a "mirage opportunity"—a business problem that seems obvious on paper and attracts endless waves of hopeful entrepreneurs, yet repeatedly fails to yield successful, scalable companies. Steven cites the persistent attempt to build a dedicated "group app" for run clubs, social circles, and local communities as a prime example. Despite well-articulated first-principles logic regarding loneliness and the functional limits of WhatsApp or Facebook Groups, these apps consistently fail to gain traction due to misread consumer behavior and existing habits.

[01:58:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7086s) "Mirage" Business Ideas to Avoid

Chris Koerner and Steven Bartlett dive into the trap of "mirage" business ideas—concepts that seem hugely attractive and obvious on the surface, but are structurally broken under the hood. Chris emphasizes that he avoids industries where products clearly aren't working, even if it seems like an easy fix. Steven brings up examples like legacy banking software or Amazon's cluttered UI, pointing out that giant companies usually keep things that way for subtle, calculated reasons. They also discuss password replacements, noting how dozens of startups have tried and failed to replace passwords because solving security at scale is exponentially harder than it looks.

Another classic "mirage" is the college campus "what's going on" app. Every year, optimistic student entrepreneurs try to build a central bulletin board app for campus events. Steven points out the structural flaws: you lose 33% of your target market every year to graduation while having to re-acquire 33% incoming freshmen. More importantly, college kids don't choose their social plans based on a generic event board; they make decisions based on where their friends, dormmates, or crushes are going.

Chris highlights a parallel trap in the creator space: building software or services specifically tailored for podcasters. A friend of his built a podcast serving podcasters and quickly realized he was selling to a customer base where 95% of users quit within six months. Of the remaining 5% who stick with it, an even smaller fraction actually make enough profit to afford software or agency services.

- **Password Replacement Startups:** High failure rate due to complex underlying security and adoption hurdles. - **Campus Event Apps:** High churn (33% annual turnover) and a fundamental misread of student social behavior. - **Podcast Tools & Services:** Extremely high churn rate (95% quit within 6 months) and low purchasing power among survivors.

---

[02:00:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7233s) The Reality of Entrepreneurship: Freedom vs. Trade-Offs

Addressing people contemplating starting a business, Chris dismantles the romanticized online narrative of "be your own boss" and absolute freedom. For many, entrepreneurship turns out to be more of a "prison" than a 9-to-5 job—lasting for years or even decades. Steven agrees, sharing that running his companies and podcast leaves him feeling less free than before, as he must constantly answer to hundreds of employees, board members, investors, clients, suppliers, and strict weekly publishing deadlines.

Chris notes that there is immense value in the predictability of a traditional job, joking about how nice it is when his wife simply gives him direct orders so he doesn't have to make decisions. He urges aspiring founders to test entrepreneurship on a small scale to see if they genuinely enjoy the day-to-day grind, rather than just falling in love with the title. Chris summarizes his personal core philosophy for the year: *"There are no solutions, only trade-offs."* Entrepreneurship isn't an ultimate solution; it’s a choice to trade stability, predictable paychecks, and low volatility for autonomy and high upside.

- **The Myth of Total Freedom:** Business owners answer to teams, clients, investors, and schedules rather than a single manager. - **The Core Trade-off:** Trading stability and predictable income for high volatility and mental load.

---

[02:03:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7423s) Childhood Chips on the Shoulder and "Delusions of Grandeur"

When answering the closing tradition question left by the previous guest—asking what Steven did during the interview that Chris appreciated—Chris reflects on how Steven's probing questions forced him to look at his own life story through a fresh lens. Steven notes that successful entrepreneurs often possess an "unreasonable" drive forged by childhood trauma, upbringing, or neurodivergence like ADHD, which makes the massive trade-offs of business ownership feel worth it or even necessary.

Chris shares a vivid personal memory from his undergraduate days when he was tested for ADHD. The psychiatrist included a single line in an eight-page evaluation report stating that Chris suffered from "delusions of grandeur." Chris remembers seeing that phrase bounce off the page and instantly questioning it: *"How do you know that's a delusion? It's only a delusion if enough time has passed so we could look back and say... he was wrong."* Reframing it as a "plan of grandeur," Chris printed out the 2009 report and still keeps the highlighted page in his office drawer today as fuel and motivation.

- **The 2009 ADHD Evaluation:** A psychiatrist claimed Chris had "delusions of grandeur." - **Office Motivation:** Chris keeps the framed/highlighted 2009 report in his desk drawer as a reminder to prove doubters wrong.

---

[02:07:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7655s) Resources, Most Requested Business Ideas, and Going Viral

For listeners looking to follow his practical business breakdowns, Chris points to his main hub, [tkopod.com](https://tkopod.com) (The Koerner Office), where he releases a weekly tactical email newsletter breaking down specific business models requested by his audience. He reveals that the single most frequent request he receives from readers is how to start an **AI Implementation Agency**.

When Steven asks about his most viral content to date, Chris describes a short 30-second video analyzing a street vendor in China selling rolled ice cream off a specialized frozen cylinder machine. Chris broke down the unit economics in the video: buy the machine for $200, set up on a high-foot-traffic street corner, and generate up to $1,000 a day. That single 30-second breakdown garnered over 30 to 40 million views across platforms.

- **Primary Platform:** [tkopod.com](https://tkopod.com) (The Koerner Office Podcast & Newsletter). - **#1 Requested Topic:** Setting up AI implementation agencies. - **Most Viral Video:** Rolled ice cream street vendor breakdown (30–40 million views).

---

[02:09:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7754s) Closing Remarks and DOAC Inner Circle

Steven wraps up the interview by thanking Chris for demystifying side hustles and showing that there are many distinct paths to building wealth and self-reliance, especially in an era rapidly changing due to AI and automation. Following the interview, Steven invites viewers to join "DOAC Circle," a private inner-circle community capped at the first 10,000 members, offering behind-the-scenes access, research briefs, unreleased episode footage, and direct interaction with the show's production team.

## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) I lived across the street from a golf course and these golf balls would fly in my yard... I'd dig through the ditches and I'd pull out all these golf balls... That was my first business. — Chris Koerner

> [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) The pain of your problem needs to be greater than how much you care about what people think about you. — Chris Koerner

> [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) Follow the profit until you can afford to follow your passion. — Chris Koerner

> [05:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=333s) When I do that and I see it exists, I'm like, 'Yes, this is it. Someone went to the front lines of the battlefield and validated this for me.' — Chris Koerner

> [27:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1629s) People need to take their curious ideas very seriously. They need to shorten the amount of time spent between having the idea and doing something about that idea, because that will strengthen their bias for action muscle. — Chris Koerner

> [47:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2830s) If I can come out of that valley, if something pulls me up out of that valley, then I think it's worth pursuing. — Steven Bartlett

> [52:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3122s) Focus is overrated and momentum is underrated... My first step is going to be something very low friction because I want you to get something back from the world. — Chris Koerner

> [01:02:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3725s) If my life with hyper-focused Chris looks like billion-dollar exits, reporting to a board, sitting in meetings all day... that's miserable Chris. Why am I making Chris miserable so my fourth-great-grandkids can be rich instead of just my second-great-grandkids? — Chris Koerner

> [01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4200s) I got rejected tens of thousands of times over the course of two years... that rewired my brain to just realize that every 'no' is closer to a 'yes.' — Chris Koerner

> [01:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4350s) When we get married, we'll spend years talking about our potential plans... But when we choose a business partner, we go get avocado toast together and we're like, '50-50, cool, sounds good. Let's do this.'... Business partnerships are significantly harder than marriages even, but we put 99% less thought into the structure. — Chris Koerner

> [01:20:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4854s) Vibe coding is the non-technical person, the non-coder such as myself using their natural language to just say, 'Hey, build me an app that manages customers for dog trainers.' — Chris Koerner

> [01:38:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5899s) He doesn't go through the brides. He goes through the wedding planners because surface area—they're touching all kinds of weddings on a regular basis. — Chris Koerner

> [01:50:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6609s) most equity goes to zero, period. — Chris Koerner

> [02:00:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7233s) There are no solutions, only trade-offs. — Chris Koerner

## Mentioned Chris Koerner, Steven Bartlett, The Diary Of A CEO, Buc-ee's, Schwinn, Alibaba, Wayback Machine, Similarweb, Y Combinator, Trader Joe's, Monday.com, The Lean Startup, Eric Ries, Facebook, Meta, Instagram, WhatsApp, ChatGPT, Nano Banana, Mark Zuckerberg, Jensen Huang, Elon Musk, Kevin O'Leary, Walter Isaacson, Steve Jobs, Jony Ive, Replit, Lovable, Lindy, Yellow Pages, Google, Yelp, Travelocity, Google Maps, Google AdSense, Google Analytics, Sam's Club, Costco, The Knot, Zola, WeddingWire, Home Depot, Beehiiv, ConvertKit, iPhone, Facebook Marketplace, McDonald's, Facebook Groups, Amazon, tkopod.com, The Koerner Office, DOAC Circle

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig)

中文简报

连续创业者 Chris Koerner 以 500 美元启动资金测试商业构想有抱负的创业者若复制已获验证的竞品模式，而非创新未经验证的概念，往往能取得更高的成功率。连续创业者 Chris Koerner 拆解了启动低成本副业的可行策略，并指出真正的被动收入必须建立在亲力亲为、“挥汗实操”的基础之上。他概述了涵盖不同预算梯度的实用商业模式——从 500 美元的 AI 落地代理机构和转包服务（drop servicing），到 5000 美元的房车营地创意卖方融资。Koerner 强调，应通过现有的市场蓝图和简易测试框架快速验证构想，而非盲目追逐未经验证的创新。在整场对话中，他着重强调了克服对公众评判的恐惧，以及将现金流置于投机性股权之上的重要性。连续创业家 Chris Koerner 指出，阻碍人们开展副业的核心障碍是对外界眼光的过度恐惧以及工具落地能力的欠缺；只有当改变现状的渴望压过被评判的恐惧时，创业行动才会真正发生。 (0:00) 直接复制已获市场验证的商业模式往往比过早盲目创新更稳妥，Koerner 曾借鉴他人跑通的模式将 iPhone 碎屏回收业务做到 900 万美元规模，并警示在未摸清行业门道前过早改变定价机制极易导致项目溃败。 (5:33) 创业者应极力缩短从“冒出想法”到“付诸测试”的时间窗口以锻炼行动力；同时，对当前项目产生分心往往并非个人专注力缺陷，而是业务尚未达成真正产品市场匹配（PMF）的警示信号。 (27:09) 起步阶段并不存在真正的被动收入，初创者必须先通过亲力亲为的苦活累活积累本金；在商业策略上应当“先追随利润，直至有能力追随热情”，逐步寻找个人兴趣与商业回报的交汇点。 (39:10) 在辞职或重资产投入前，创业者可通过 Meta 生态（如 Facebook Marketplace 与群组）结合 AI 生成的产品图进行零成本或极低成本的 A/B 测试，在两小时内快速摸清真实市场需求。 (52:02)

Reading summary

Entrepreneur Chris Koerner contends that building sustainable wealth begins with active, unglamorous execution and copying proven models rather than chasing passive income or unvalidated inventions. He argues that modern digital platforms allow aspiring founders to validate low-risk ideas for under $500 while testing demand before abandoning full-time employment. Dismantling Passive Income and Copying Proven Frameworks (39:10) Koerner clarifies that true passive income—such as yields on Treasury bonds—requires substantial capital that beginners lack, meaning founders must first generate active, "sweaty, ugly income." Rather than attempting to pioneer unproven concepts or chase unmonetized passions, he advises following profit first and replicating established market demand. Looking at existing competitors provides immediate validation that customers are willing to spend money. To illustrate this, Koerner cites his college-era iPhone screen recycling business, which scaled from $2 million in year one to $9 million in year three simply by copying a buyer's cross-border supply chain rather than inventing a new service. Similarly, his unofficial Buc-ee's e-commerce venture capitalized on existing brand loyalty rather than trying to build audience demand from scratch. He stresses that trying to innovate too early introduces unnecessary operational risk before a baseline cash flow is secured. Rapid Validation and Low-Cost Idea Testing (52:02) Rather than spending capital on unproven concepts, Koerner advocates stress-testing demand while maintaining a primary job. Modern AI tools and Meta's advertising suite allow founders to construct and test Minimum Viable Products (MVPs) within minutes. For instance, an entrepreneur can test market appetite for a women's creatine supplement by using AI image generators to produce gummy and powder mockups, running identical Facebook Marketplace listings or low-budget ads ($10 to $20), and tracking incoming buyer inquiries before procuring inventory. Both Koerner and Bartlett emphasize filtering spontaneous ideas through cooling-off mechanisms before allocating resources. Bartlett utilizes a "Sunday Shelf" digital board to observe an idea's psychological excitement arc over time, while Koerner applies a "Two-Week Rule" to ensure concepts remain compelling past initial enthusiasm. Furthermore, Koerner underscores assessing physical products via direct in-person customer observation—such as selling baked goods at local markets—to measure genuine engagement over polite feedback from acquaintances. Tiered Execution Models from $500 to $5,000 (80:54) Koerner outlines practical business models mapped directly to initial capital tiers. At the $500 level, he highlights AI implementation agencies for small businesses, pointing out that while surveys show 77% of small business owners believe AI would transform operations, only 5% actively deploy it. Other low-cost models include "drop servicing" (capturing local home or auto service inquiries online and subcontracting labor), micro-directory websites monetized via search traffic and lead generation, and used vending machines placed in high-traffic commercial spaces. With $1,000, founders can launch physical rental ventures—such as building wooden wedding arches for $300 and renting them to wedding planners for $1,000 per event—or launch hyper-local email newsletters using targeted social ads, monetizing subscriber lists through local business sponsorships. At $5,000, Koerner recommends acquiring small 3-to-10 pad RV parks using seller financing. He reserves $2,000 for due diligence inspections and $3,000 for site improvements, noting that multi-pad RV parks spread vacancy risk across several tenants far better than single-family rental homes. Founder Archetypes, Partnership Pitfalls, and Operational Trade-Offs (72:30) Long-term operational success depends heavily on founder self-awareness. Koerner categorizes entrepreneurs into Starters (0-to-1 visionaries), Maintainers (operational process managers), and Finishers (dealmakers who negotiate exits). Because individuals rarely excel across all three stages, founders must recognize their specific operational strengths. He cautions against default 50/50 equity partnerships, noting that co-founded businesses frequently fracture over uneven commitments, and advocates for solo-founding early ventures or structuring equity around performance milestones. Koerner and Bartlett also warn against "mirage opportunities"—concepts like campus event boards or software designed exclusively for podcasters—that appear attractive but struggle with severe customer churn or non-paying users. Ultimately, Koerner dispels the myth that business ownership delivers frictionless autonomy, framing entrepreneurship as a clear trade-off that replaces the predictability of traditional employment with high income volatility and extensive stakeholder accountability. While digital tools and creative deal structures drastically lower the capital required to launch cash-flowing side ventures, the source stresses that entrepreneurship introduces substantial psychological pressure and persistent operational obligations. Prospective founders must determine whether they are suited to navigate high volatility and active operational grind rather than treating business ownership as an effortless path to passive wealth.

精炼阅读摘要

连续创业者 Chris Koerner 在与 Steven Bartlett 的对谈中指出，初期的“纯被动收入”大多是不切实际的幻想，创业者必须先通过务实、繁重的具体业务积累现金流；他主张克制过早创新的冲动，利用经过市场验证的模式、现代 AI 工具及低成本付费广告快速测试真实需求，以极小资金撬动商业起步。破除被动收入神话与利润优先法则 (39:10) Koerner 强调，在缺乏巨额原始资本的情况下，无需持续劳动的纯被动收入在起步期难以实现，创业者必须先投身于不光鲜、重执行的“繁重业务”（sweaty income）。针对“追随热情”的流行建议，他提出应“先追随利润，直到有能力追随热情”。创业初期的核心在于理解商业底层逻辑——即将 1 美元转化为 2 美元的交易技能，而不是奢求个人兴趣与变现机会在第一天就高度重叠。通过不断测试不同项目来拓宽接触面，最终才可能过渡到个人热情、能力、社会需求与报酬相统一的“生之意义”（Ikigai）状态。此外，Koerner 警示创业者切忌为了虚荣心而过早创新。商业中 95% 的挑战属于现金流、团队招聘、法律合规等早有现成解法的“老问题”，直接借鉴先行者的成熟框架才是最高效的手段。当在市场上搜索到一个活跃的竞争对手时，这并非市场饱和的劝退信号，而是市场需求真实存在的最强验证。以他在大学时期创立的破损 iPhone 屏幕回收业务为例，他在发现有人收购碎屏发往海外重新贴合后，立即完整复制了该供应链与运作机制，在未做盲目创新的前提下将业务在第三年做到了 900 万美元年营收并成功退出。敏捷验证体系与 Meta 广告压力测试 (52:02) 针对如何在不辞职、不筹集风险投资的情况下检验最小可行产品（MVP），Koerner 阐述了以 Meta 广告和市场工具为核心的快速压力测试框架。以一款“口感更佳的女性肌酸补充剂”构想为例，创业者无需提前备货，而是利用 AI 图像生成工具制作软糖与冲剂两种形态的产品概念图，在 Facebook Marketplace 上发布两则除产品形态图外其他文案和价格完全一致的商品信息，用两小时监控点击与咨询；随后各投入 10 美元微量广告预算进行对比投放。这种直接面向陌生消费者的测试能够穿透熟人客套的虚假肯定，捕捉真实的购买意愿。在 Koerner 看来，真正的产品与市场匹配（PMF）不应是创始人艰难地“推巨石上山”，而应像“被巨石追着跑”——即客户需求强烈到逼迫创始人连夜履约。为了避免被瞬时的冲动带偏，Bartlett 分享了将深夜灵感搁置两周以观察兴奋度周期的“周日搁置板”（Sunday Shelf）机制；Koerner 则遵循“两周法则”，唯有经过 14 天后依然在脑海中挥之不去且自发寻找落地证据的想法才值得动手推进。Koerner 视掌握 Facebook 广告投放为现代创始人的基础生存技能，如同撰写邮件一样是低成本验证与获客的底层杠杆。阶梯式资本策略：从 500 到 5000 美元 (80:54) 围绕对谈现场设定的三档启动资金挑战，Koerner 给出了具体的实操模型。在 500 美元档位，他首推面向中小企业（SMB）的“AI 代落地服务”（AI Implementation Agency）。全球约 4 亿家中小企业中，77% 的受访店主意识到 AI 的颠覆性，却仅有 5% 真正落地应用；创始人只需投入约 100 美元掌握自然语言低代码构建工具（如 Replit、Lovable），其余 400 美元投放针对本地商家的 Meta 广告，用通俗语言解决客户降本增收的痛点。该预算下的备选方案还包括“转包服务”（Drop Servicing，建立现代化前端接单网站赚取差价，将修车或车库门维修等实际劳工全额外包给本地师傅）、细分行业目录网站，以及花费 300 至 400 美元在二手平台购入自动售货机并在批发店拿货运营。在 1,000 美元档位，Koerner 推荐高毛利的活动与婚礼道具租赁，例如用 200 至 300 美元木料打造拱门后以单次 1,000 美元出租，且绕过单次消费的新娘，直接利用爬虫工具抓取婚礼策划师名录建立长期复购合作；另一选择则是投入 1,000 美元广告在人口约 20 万的中型城市沉淀 1,000 名本地生活邮件订阅者，利用读者中占比约 10% 的本地商户资源，通过单次 500 美元的赞助广告位迅速收回获客成本。资金上升至 5,000 美元时，核心模式转向利用卖方融资（Seller Financing）接盘拥有 3 至 10 个营位的微型房车公园（RV Park），将 2,000 美元用于尽职调查与产权审查，3,000 美元用于营地周转，通过线上投放与租金平抑优化现金流和资本化率（Cap Rate），顺应未来十年婴儿潮一代退休带来的巨量中小企业及存量资产交接潮。角色认知、股权陷阱与海市蜃楼机会 (72:30) Koerner 将创业者划分为三类特质：专注 0 到 1 破局的“起跑者”（Starters）、擅长流程化推进的“维持者”（Maintainers），以及长于资源整合与资本运作的“终结者”（Finishers）。他将自己定位为起跑者，并指出一人兼具三者特质极其罕见。他郑重告诫初创者不要轻易寻找合伙人，社会舆论充斥着知名双人搭档的幸存者偏差，但现实中合伙企业因内耗而失败的概率远高于个人独创。许多人花数年筹备婚姻，却在早午餐的闲聊中草率敲定 50/50 的股权对半平分；由于双方的时间精力、资金贡献、成长速度几乎不可能在数年内保持绝对一致，均等分权极易演变为推诿与怨恨。他建议初创期应尽量独立掌舵以认清自身优缺点，即便组建团队也必须建立与具体交付成果挂钩的动态股权。 Bartlett 与 Koerner 还深度拆解了表面合乎逻辑、实际底层存在致命缺陷的“海市蜃楼机会”（Mirage Opportunities）。典型案例包括大学校园活动聚合应用——其商业结构每年因毕业与升学强制流失并重获 33% 的目标用户，且年轻人的社交决策由私人社交圈驱动而非公告牌；另一类则是针对播客主播开发的软件服务，其面对的客群中超过 90% 会因缺乏预算和动力在短时间内放弃更新，导致极高的客户流失率。Koerner 总结称，缺乏专注往往不是意志力问题，而是项目缺乏真实市场拉力的警示信号；创始人应主动舍弃看似诱人的伪需求，将精力锚定在自身具备信息、渠道或专业优势的领域。 Koerner 总结认为，商业从来不是通向绝对自由的终极解法，而是一场“没有完美方案，只有代价权衡”（There are no solutions, only trade-offs）的选择过程。尽管他先后启动过 80 余家公司并实现了财务独立，但他坦承其中绝大多数项目最终因机会成本或效益不足而被放弃，创业本质上遵循高频试错的大数定律。将企业做到极致或成为亿万富翁往往意味着要向董事会、员工及投资者让渡个人生活；对于普通人而言，更明智的路径是在维持生计安全垫的同时，以极低试错成本测试商业常识与个人能量匹配度，看清高波动性背后的代价后再决定投入程度。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 本内容由 YouTube 知名商业访谈频道《The Diary Of A CEO》（主持人史蒂文·巴特利特 Steven Bartlett）于 2025 年 12 月 8 日发布。视频围绕连续创业者、被誉为“副业之王”的克里斯·柯纳（Chris Koerner）展开，根据页面简介，他揭秘了自己如何白手起家创办 80 多家企业，并拆解了仅凭 500 美元到 5,000 美元的小额启动资金在短期内实现快速盈利的实操闭环与心态法则。 ## TL;DR 访谈打破了大众对“躺平被动收入”和盲目追逐激情的幻想，提出在创业早期应放下虚荣、先追逐利润，并直接像素级复制已被市场验证的商业模式。克里斯结合自身创办 80 多家企业的起伏经验，详细展示了如何利用 AI 工具（如 Vibe Coding）与 Facebook Marketplace 等极低门槛渠道进行 0 成本测品与敏捷验证。现场通过 500 美元、1,000 美元和 5,000 美元三个实体手提箱推演，深度拆解了企业 AI 落地服务、本地服务套利（Drop Servicing）、婚礼道具租赁、垂直邮件通讯以及房车营地卖家融资等具体实战方案。同时，对话深刻剖析了不轻易平分股权、审慎寻找合伙人，以及在商业野心与陪伴家庭之间做出清醒取舍的人生哲学。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话节奏紧凑且干货密集，既有硅谷级商业认知的敏锐交锋，又充满接地气的街头智慧与反常识洞见。史蒂文的深度追问与克里斯毫无架子的坦诚自剖形成极佳的化学反应，从手提箱开箱的实战推演到回忆东欧雪地敲门传教的心态蜕变，情绪弧线跌宕起伏。现场没有高大上的虚假画饼，而是在拆解代码、算清利润账目与探讨创业孤独之间，呈现出一种既清醒现实、又极度能点燃普通人行动渴望的务实感染力。 ## Bulletin - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) 连续创业者 Chris Koerner 提出副业启动的低成本法则：90% 的构想仅需不到 500 美元与业余时间即可开始，创业者应遵循“先追逐利润、后追求热情”的务实原则。 - [11:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=702s) 与其凭空发明轮子，不如对已被验证的成熟企业进行逆向工程；结合 Web Archive 与 Similarweb 等工具像素级复制竞品经过多年打磨的商业闭环，能够规避高昂的早期试错成本。 - [52:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3129s) 验证商业创意不需要耗资研发，利用 Facebook Marketplace 等现有生态与 AI 工具可在几小时内完成概念测试，低摩擦的即时市场反馈远比完美规划更重要。 - [01:21:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4870s) 针对不同资金规模有明确切入策略：500 美元可做本地中小企业 AI 落地服务或 Drop Servicing，1,000 美元适合婚庆道具租赁与本地 Newsletter，5,000 美元则能通过卖家融资（Seller Financing）盘活轻资产房车营地。 ## Key takeaways - [09:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=541s) 创业门槛从未如此之低：依靠生成式 AI、无代码工具和主流社交平台，一个人凭借少量提示词和微额预算即可在业余时间完成从建站到市场验证的全流程。 - [10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=604s) 拥抱“富足法则”与逆向思维：发现竞品不仅不是坏事，反而是市场需求已被验证的明确信号，直接从对手沉淀数年的成熟终点起步是最省力的捷径。 - [16:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=968s) 过早创新的“航线偏离”陷阱：商业中 95% 的流程属于已有成熟解法的老问题，初期必须 100% 完整照搬行业标杆规则，唯有在深耕摸透底层机制后才能做渐进式微调。 - [27:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1674s) 极速压缩“闪念到行动”的间隔：创业的关键在于通过反复测试强化行动偏好肌肉，脱敏对失败和外界评价的恐惧，在持续探索中滚出复利效应。 - [30:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1823s) 创业并非适合所有人：高薪且家庭责任重大的群体贸然辞职面临不对称下行风险，合理的路径是在安全网完备的前提下，先用副业验证可扩展的盈利模型再谈全职转型。 - [39:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2350s) 破除对“被动收入”的虚妄幻想：初期必须老老实实赚取流汗且丑陋的主动收入，积累了足够的原始资本、人脉与运营杠杆后，被动现金流才会变为现实。 - [41:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2515s) 用 Ikigai 框架解构热情：创业起步如果强求个人爱好与商业价值重合失败率极高，应先建立对“商业交易本身”的底层兴趣，追逐利润直到有能力负担个人激情。 - [48:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2929s) 真正的产品市场契合度（PMF）是“被巨石追着跑”：验证不仅是亲友礼貌的口头称赞，而是用户脸上统一爆发的即时狂喜和汹涌而至的订单需求。 - [01:15:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4515s) 警惕合伙人“五五平分”股权的定时炸弹：初创团队极少能在长达十年的成长速率与外部变故中保持绝对对等，新手更应先单打独斗，合伙也应推迟确立并挂钩具体量化里程碑。 - [01:21:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4870s) 500 美元极佳切入点——本地 AI 落地服务：利用企业主“知其重要却无从下手”的商业认知失调，以通俗语言为本地小商家定制 AI 接线或排班工具，赚取单次部署费与长期运维月费。 - [01:28:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5322s) 无实物资产的服务套利（Drop Servicing）：通过现代化的 UI、流畅的结账体验和广告投放捕获本地生活服务需求，再将具体履约分包给线下缺乏数字化能力的传统师傅，赚取体验溢价。 - [01:43:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6207s) 善用卖家融资（Seller Financing）撬动高现金流资产：在房车营地等商业地产中，原业主充当银行提供按月分期，投资者仅需少量运营与尽调准备金即可接盘并改造资产获得估值重塑。 - [01:56:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6995s) 警惕表面诱人的“海市蜃楼机会”：诸如社群聚合 App 或大学活动看板等项目表面痛点明显，实则背离了熟人社交网络或面临极高自然流失率，极易成为创业者的泥潭。 - [02:00:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7233s) 戳破“创业即绝对自由”的神话：经营企业意味着对员工、客户与投资人背负指数级增加的羁绊与不可预测性，创业本质上不是解决困境的万能药，而是为了热爱主动承受特定的代价与权衡。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) 副业与被动收入的诱惑：三个神秘手提箱与核心商业信条在节目的开篇，史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）指出，如今越来越多的人渴望通过副业来获取被动收入。克里斯·柯纳（Chris Koerner）将副业形容为商业世界中的“司美格鲁肽”（financial Ozempic）——它见效快且前所未有地容易触及。克里斯提到，他所探讨的商业构想中，有 90% 仅需 500 美元甚至更少的启动资金，完全可以利用下班后的夜晚和周末时间来操作。为了将这些概念具象化，现场摆放了三个装有不同金额现金的箱子（分别为 500 美元、1,000 美元和 5,000 美元），史蒂文会在对话中随机挑选并递给克里斯，考验他如何利用这些小额预算从零打造一家企业。克里斯被誉为“副业之王”（King of Side Hustles），至今已创立超过 80 家企业，斩获了数百万美元的财富。在快问快答式的预告片段中，克里斯直言不讳地打破了诸多大众对创业的幻想： - **关于热爱**：“忽视激情，跟着利润走，直到你赚够了钱能负担得起追求激情为止。”（"Ignore passion. Follow the profit until you can afford to follow your passion."） - **关于合伙人**：完全没有必要找合伙人。数据显示，拥有联合创始人的企业倒闭概率要显著高于单独创业者。 - **关于验证想法**：验证一个商业构想所需的最强大工具，实际上是一个全球四分之一人类每天都在使用的日常平台。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 副业启动三要素模型 accDescr: 阐述从极低成本启动到验证、扩展的极简闭环逻辑。 subgraph S1["低门槛起步"] A["500美元以内预算"] --> B["利用夜晚与周末时间"] end subgraph S2["务实执行"] B --> C["以利润为导向 而非盲目追随激情"] C --> D["单打独斗验证 避免合伙内耗"] end subgraph S3["成果放大"] D --> E["小生意蜕变 数百万美元业务"] end ``` ### [02:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=153s) 克里斯·柯纳是谁：白手起家与对商业的纯粹热爱当史蒂文询问克里斯的身份与他所背负的使命时，克里斯给出的自我定义首先是一个父亲和一个丈夫，其次才是一位连续创业者。他热衷于谈论商业、创办公司，并激励他人迈出同样的一步。克里斯坦言，之所以对商业怀有如此深沉的执念，是因为商业赋予了他所拥有的一切。克里斯在相对贫困的家庭环境中长大，商业成了他改变命运的出口，是他牢牢掌握自己人生航向、将其塑造为理想模样的唯一工具。谈及此，克里斯满怀感激地表示：“商业是我唯一懂的东西。你跟我聊历史或营养学，我一窍不通；但只要一谈起商业，我就充满激情，而且我真心希望其他人也能爱上商业。” ### [03:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=198s) 成为“副业之王”：互联网公开实验与人性的“灵丹妙药” 在过去的几年里，克里斯的名字频繁出现在各大社交媒体上。谈及“副业之王”这一称号的由来看法，克里斯澄清自己从未刻意将自己包装成所谓副业专家。他原本就一直在不停地测试、启动和创立企业，只是在近两三年开始将这些真实的过程发布在互联网上，观众便自发地给他打上了这个标签。在他看来，任何所谓的副业本质上都具备扩展性，一个看似不起眼的微型项目完全有可能成长为一个数百万美元的大企业，毕竟全球有 80 亿人口互联互通。史蒂文问及他在做内容的过程中，是否发现了大众渴望的核心痛点。克里斯敏锐地洞察到： - **寻找“银色子弹”**：作为人类，大家总在寻找解决财务困境的灵丹妙药，副业便成了许多人眼中的救命稻草。 - **想法多与行动瘫痪**：几乎每个人脑海里都有赚钱的构想，但绝大多数人因为内心的犹豫而迟迟不敢落地。 - **示范效应**：当人们看到克里斯可以毫无心理负担地频繁测试并执行各种构想时，这打破了他们的认知盲区，让商业变得触手可及，也赋予了普通人迈出第一步的勇气。 ### [05:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=333s) 从高尔夫球到80多家企业：商业是亲民且可扩展的数字游戏克里斯回顾了自己的第一堂商业启蒙课。9 岁那年，他生活在犹他州，家对面恰好是一个高尔夫球场。当时他的朋友和邻居家孩子都有自行车，而他无比渴望拥有一辆红色的施文（Schwinn）自行车，可父母根本拿不出这笔钱。偶然间，球场上的高尔夫球经常飞进他家的院子，克里斯突然将草坪上那颗白色的小球与金钱联系在了一起。为了凑齐买自行车的钱，克里斯开始四处搜寻：他去翻邻居的院子、穿过马路去排水沟里打捞高尔夫球，将捡来的球洗干净后，在家门口立起一块巨大的胶合板，上面写着“高尔夫球 3 个 1 美元”。克里斯感叹道，如今他自己的儿子也恰好 9 岁，而回想起当年只有 9 岁的自己站在繁忙的马路边，与身穿保罗衫的成年陌生人讨价还价，这在今天看来几乎难以想象，但正是这段经历在他心中埋下了种子——让他明白商业既平易近人，又极具可扩展性。谈及成年后的战绩，克里斯分享了具体的数据与背后的残酷现实： - **企业总数**：克里斯有一份详细记录的电子表格，至今创立过的企业至少有 80 家。 - **总业绩**：所有企业累计创造了数亿美元的营业收入，净利润在小几千万美元的规模。 - **失败与放弃**：从实际比例来看，这 80 多家企业中的绝大多数都被他主动放弃、逐渐消失、以失败告终，或者因为机会成本过高而转向了其他项目。这纯粹是一个“数字游戏”（numbers game）。 - **生活状态**：在二十多岁时，他就和结婚 17 年的妻子建成了梦想中的住宅，生了 4 个孩子，经常一家人全家旅行，孩子们在公立学校就读，生活充裕而自由。 ### [07:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=467s) 创业的核心心智：问题带来的痛苦必须压过别人的眼光在展开具体的创业策略之前，史蒂文追问，想要以这种高频、大体量的方式做副业并取得成功，是否需要某种不可或缺的底层心态或性格特质。克里斯给出了一个极其直接的诊断：“你现实问题的痛苦程度，必须压过你在乎别人看法的程度。”（"The pain of your problem needs to be greater than how much you care about what people think about you."）克里斯强调，阻碍普通人迈向成功的最大拦路虎，莫过于过度在乎他人的眼光。许多人不敢去做某件事，或者不敢在社交网络上公开谈论自己的商业尝试，仅仅是因为害怕某个关注了自己的高中同学在 Facebook 评论区嘲弄两句。克里斯表示，虽然这种顾虑听起来很荒唐，但他完全理解这种恐惧，因为自己也曾经历过这一阶段。只要创业者能够在脑海中将“别人正在关注我、议论我”的心理开关彻底关掉，放开手脚去行动，整个世界都会变成任由探索的大好机会。随后，史蒂文将话题引向了当下的时代背景，探讨在当今拥有 AI、高速互联网和移动设备的时刻，是否正是普通人入局创业的最佳黄金时代。 ### [09:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=541s) 创业门槛从未如此之低：AI时代与零成本验证克里斯·科纳（Chris Koerner）指出，随着时间推移，对普通人而言创业的时机不仅没有变差，反而每一天都在变得更好。虽然市场竞争日益激烈，但如今可支配的工具数量远超以往任何时期。回顾十年前，即便互联网与社交媒体已全面普及，想要启动一家公司通常仍需投入大量资金、搬迁至旧金山或寻求风险投资（VC）。但放到今天，这种模式已被彻底颠覆——几乎没有任何想法必须依靠融资、孤注一掷（all-in）或辞掉全职工作才能开始。如今借助各类 AI 软件工具，用户仅凭一句提示词（prompt）就能在几分钟内搭建一个完整的网站，甚至生成一个应用程序。想要验证一个商业想法的受众需求，你可以直接在 Facebook Marketplace 上发布一条帖子，往往在一小时内就能收到数百条咨询；你也可以投放几美元的 Facebook 广告、在分类广告网站 Craigslist 发帖、在自家门前立一块宣传牌，或者直接向潜在人群发起问卷调研。市面上存在无数用于低成本测试、验证和实验商业原型的工具，商业尝试的门槛比以往任何时候都要低。 - **今昔创业对比**：十年前需要巨额资金、搬迁旧金山或依赖 VC 风险投资；现在凭借生成式 AI 与无代码工具，一个人用一条提示词即可做出网站或 App。 - **即时需求验证渠道**：Facebook Marketplace（发布后一小时内即可收集反馈）、小额 Facebook 广告、Craigslist 免费分类广告、实体线下招牌与在线调研问卷。 ### [10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=604s) 为什么多数人裹足不前？富足法则与“已被验证”的真相针对“既然工具如此触手可及，为什么绝大多数人还是不行动”的疑问，克里斯分析了三大核心心理障碍： 1. **过度在乎他人眼光**：人们总是害怕身边的亲友或外界如何评价自己的尝试。 2. **缺乏连接工具与想法的能力**：多数人无法把现成工具与商业创意关联起来。例如，他们会熟练地在 Facebook Marketplace 上卖掉一张二手组合沙发，却完全想不到可以用同样的平台去测验自己的木工产品是否有市场需求。 3. **陷入“零和博弈”的误区，忽视“富足法则”（Law of Abundance）**：多数人认为商业竞争是零和的，总觉得市场早已过度饱和。许多人灵光一闪想到一个新产品或服务时极为兴奋，但一旦去 Google 搜索发现别人已经做过了，就会立刻沮丧地放弃。克里斯本人的思维方式则恰恰相反。当他在网上搜索并发现已经有人在做这个点子时，他的第一反应是狂喜：“太棒了！终于有人替我冲上了前线战场，替我验证了这个需求是真实存在的！”既然对方已经承担了前期所有市场教育和试错的风险，就意味着这是一个可行且有利可图的领域。世界和市场足够庞大，容得下多个赢家，根本不需要重新发明轮子。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 商业创意验证思维对比 accDescr: 对比普通人面对竞争时的放弃心态与成熟创业者利用对手验证成果并起步的敏捷思维。 subgraph 普通人误区["❌ 零和博弈思维"] A1["产生产品/服务创意"] --> A2["在 Google 搜索验证"] A2 --> A3{"发现已有同行？"} A3 -- 是 --> A4["误判市场饱和 / 沮丧放弃"] end subgraph 创业者视角["✅ 富足法则与逆向思维"] B1["发现同行已在运营"] --> B2["确信需求成立：前人已承担试错风险"] B2 --> B3["利用 Web Archive 分析其十年演变路径"] B3 --> B4["利用 Similarweb 交叉对比流量与改版成效"] B4 --> B5["直接从对手当前的成熟终点起步"] end ``` ### [11:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=702s) 商业逆向工程：利用 Web Archive 与 Similarweb 站在终点起步克里斯详细拆解了自己如何逆向解构一个成熟竞争对手的具体方法：当他锁定一家已有企业时，会借助互联网历史档案馆（Wayback Machine / Web Archive）以及域名查询工具（Whois），调取该公司过去十年间网站的所有历史快照。通过对比网页在不同时期的变化轨迹，可以清晰还原出其商业模式的演变逻辑： - 观察对手最初的产品定价（例如早年标价 99 美元一次性购买，如今演变成每两个月扣费 49 美元的订阅制）； - 研究其文案标题（headline copy）的精简与改写； - 统计其导航栏标签页的数量增减，以及是否嵌入了 Instagram 社媒动态。此外，克里斯还会配合使用流量分析工具 Similarweb 查看该网站历年来的流量走势，并将两组数据重叠对比。例如，若发现对方网站在某一年改版为移动端适配后，月访问量从 3,000 跃升至 4,500，他就会记下这一结论，并在自己的业务中“从第一天起就彻底针对移动端优化”。克里斯强调，追求“与众不同”、“创新”或“独一无二”往往只是创业者虚荣心与自尊心（ego）在作祟，甚至会让人产生一种心理包袱，觉得直接复制别人的业务模式显得肮脏或不道德。然而，只要不侵犯知识产权或盗用品牌商标，“抄袭已经被市场验证的成功模式”就是最高效的战略。史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）对此表示认同，并补充道，即便是像沃尔玛（Walmart）这样的巨头，其早期蓝图也是直接复制了 95% 其他区域性杂货连锁店的成熟运作机制。 ### [13:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=802s) 百万美金案例：大学时期复制碎屏翻新业务被问及自己是否亲身实践过这种“照抄模式”时，克里斯分享了他在大学时期（2010年）的一段创业经历。当时他正经营一家手机维修小店，某天接到一个陌生同行的电话，对方询问：“克里斯，我想收购你手里所有摔碎的 iPhone 屏幕，你有库存吗？”克里斯当时存了满满一箱碎屏幕，仅仅是因为觉得随意丢弃电子垃圾对环境不好。克里斯问对方愿出多少钱，对方开价每块屏幕 3 美元。克里斯感到十分困惑：“这只是一堆碎玻璃，你为什么要花钱买？”对方坦言，行业内有一种再制造翻新技术，可以把这些碎屏统一发往中国，剥离表层破碎的玻璃盖板，贴合上崭新的玻璃，然后作为翻新总成高价重新卖向市场。这个电话像一道闪电击中了克里斯。普通人的反应通常是立刻打包碎屏卖掉赚点小钱，但克里斯的第一念头却是：“我也要进入这个行业，我要彻底复制这个给我打电话的人！” 当时他连对方的公司名称和官方网站都一无所知，也没有类似现在的网络档案工具可用，但他认定这个需求在行业内必然会爆发。克里斯立刻付诸行动： - 打开阿里巴巴（Alibaba）平台，向海量销售 iPhone 屏幕的中国供应商逐一发送私信：“你们提供屏幕翻新回收服务吗？” - 大约有 5% 至 10% 的供应商回复“可以”； - 克里斯随即寄送了一批样品过去测试工艺，并收到了完美修复的翻新成品。确认供应链跑通后，克里斯将以往业务中积累的电话推销（cold calling）和 Facebook 广告等获客技巧融入其中，建立起完善的回收与分销网络。这项直接复制而来的业务第一年便实现了 200 万美元的营业额，第二年达到 500 万美元，第三年攀升至 900 万美元，并在几年后成功出售变现。 - **业务数据演进**：第一年营收 200 万美元 ➔ 第二年 500 万美元 ➔ 第三年 900 万美元 ➔ 随后完成并购退出（Exit）。 ### [16:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=968s) 航线偏离理论：过早创新的致命代价与仓储业务的教训克里斯与史蒂文深入探讨了“何时才应该加入自己的创新与特色”。克里斯认为，创业之初最明智的做法是 **100% 像素级复制** 原有模式，而绝不能在起点处自作聪明地做改动。他提出了一个生动的“飞行航线”类比： > 一架飞机如果在起飞之初就把航向偏离哪怕仅仅几度，最终降落时就会距离既定目的地偏离数百英里；但如果飞机沿着既定航线平稳飞行，只在途中根据实际路况与天气逐步微调，最终就能准确甚至更优地抵达目的地。如果在接到那通翻新收购电话的第一天，克里斯出于虚荣心想：“光做 iPhone 屏幕太没意思了，我要标新立异去做三星（Samsung）屏幕翻新”，那么这个商业设想很可能在第一步就彻底夭折，因为当时三星屏幕的技术工艺和市场需求根本不成熟。只有当你在完全复制的过程中深入产业、摸清了其运转的真实底层逻辑后，结合自身的技能背景再做迭代，创新才会产生正向价值。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 航线偏离类比图 accDescr: 展示初期过早创新导致严重偏离目标，与初期完全复制、后期渐进微调达到更优目的地的路径对比。 subgraph 错误路径["❌ 起点擅自创新"] D1["起飞起点"] -->|"初始偏离 5°"| D2["脱离成熟商业轨道"] D2 --> D3["终点：偏离数百英里 / 商业失败"] end subgraph 正确路径["✅ 先完整复制后微调"] C1["起飞起点"] -->|"100% 沿成熟航线飞行"| C2["摸透底层机制与痛点"] C2 -->|"途中基于自身经验微调"| C3["终点：成功复制并超越竞品"] end ``` 为了反思不尊重既有规则带来的代价，克里斯讲述了自己后来创办电商履约仓储（3PL fulfillment）时踩过的惨痛陷阱。当时他们拥有大型仓库，负责帮电商品牌接单并打包发货。克里斯在研究行业老牌竞品时，非常嫌弃同行的计费体系： - 为什么同行要分别收取仓储费（storage fees）、分拣打包费（pick, pack and ship fees）？ - 为什么要针对保质期追踪额外收费？ - 为什么包裹里放 5 件商品要比放 4 件商品多收操作费？年轻气盛的克里斯认为这些收费标准给客户带来了极大的摩擦感与混乱体验，便自以为是地决定将“极简单一固定费率、免收一切仓储费”作为自身品牌的核心差异化卖点。然而在实际运营数月至数年之后，血淋淋的商业现实狠狠教育了他：仓储费绝非巧立名目，而是为了防范客户突然倒闭停业后，大量滞销死库存无休止地霸占宝贵仓位等极端风险。过早否定前人留下的成熟商业设计，最终只会让自己付出沉重的学费。 ### [17:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1066s) 放弃自作聪明：向深耕行业数十年的竞争对手“抄作业” 克里斯·科尔纳（Chris Koerner）回顾了自己在创办仓储代发货业务时交过的昂贵学费。当时他自以为是个精明的 MBA 天才，试图在商业模式上推陈出新，以为自己比那些老牌仓储老板更聪明，结果在计费方式上完全脱离实际——他忽略了行业内标准的“分拣、包装与配送费”（Pick, Pack, and Ship Fees），当客户货物长期滞留时，他自己承担着高昂的仓储租金成本，却根本无法把费用转嫁给客户，最终只能自己硬生生扛下巨额账单。这段惨痛教训让他彻底顿悟：一个在这个行业深耕了 15 年的资深玩家，比起只入局了 15 天的新手，对行业底细的理解不知深刻了多少倍。从那之后，克里斯彻底戒掉了轻视竞争对手的心态。他坦言自己不再假定同行是傻瓜，因为现实已经无数次证明他是错的。同行之所以保留那样的做法，是因为他们早就踩过所有的坑、用最惨痛的方式买过单了。与其自己去重新撞一次南墙，不如老老实实放下傲慢，全盘复制对方经过验证的成熟模式——照搬对方的定价策略、照搬网站的页面排版、照搬仓库的规模尺寸、照搬他们深耕的细分利基市场。只要那是行之有效的，直接借鉴就是最省时省力的捷径。史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）对此深有共鸣。他分享道，就在前几天，他把公司的几位高管请到家中开会，共同研究行业里几家历史悠久的标杆企业。起初，大家看到对方某些看似陈旧的业务流程时，第一反应也是：“他们为什么非要这么做？这体验不是挺差劲的吗？”他们瞬间产生了想要重新发明轮子的冲动。但多年经商带来的智慧让史蒂芬迅速冷静下来，并抛出了一个关键问题：“为什么一家做了 50 年的竞品，最终会停留在这种模式上？”市场对老牌企业的商业模型进行过数千次的压力测试，那些看似不合理的妥协，背后往往隐藏着规模化扩张或其他不可抗力的真实原因。放下虚荣心，从竞品已经验证好的起点出发，才是成熟创业者的明智之举。克里斯进一步补充，虽然有些大公司确实会因为“现存模式还管用”而懒得去探索更好的解法，比如一家服装品牌可能完全依赖 Facebook 广告获客，从未尝试过 Google 广告，但作为新手，绝不能凭空去押注未知渠道。他的策略是：先 100% 照搬对方最核心的获客渠道（如 Facebook 广告），站稳脚跟后，再拿出 5% 的预算去测试其他新渠道；而在十有八九的情况下，测试的结果依然会证明老渠道才是最有效的。 --- ### [20:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1211s) 老问题向专家借经验，新问题用敏捷做实验谈及商业运作的本质，史蒂芬提出商业中面临的挑战大致可以归为两类：一类是占了商业运营 95% 的“老问题”（Old Problems），包括现金流管理、法务架构、员工试用期与离职通知期等，这些问题早已有成千上万的前人摸索出成熟路径，世界的基础规则并未改变，解决老问题的最佳答案就是“专业知识与经验”（寻找导师、直接复制或雇佣专家）；另一类则是仅占 5% 的“新问题”（New Problems），例如生成式 AI 等全新技术催生的未知挑战与机遇，行业内尚无先例蓝图可循，解决之道唯有“持续实验”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 商业问题分类与应对策略 accDescr: 展示老问题与新问题在应对策略、解决工具及克里斯具体实践上的鲜明对比。 subgraph Old["老问题（占比约 95%）"] O1["招聘、现金流、法务、合同架构"] O2["解决核心：专业知识与现成模式"] O3["克里斯的招聘实践：大数定律快速试用"] end subgraph New["新问题（占比约 5%）"] N1["AI 新工具、全新市场生态、未知渠道"] N2["解决核心：低成本敏捷实验"] N3["策略：小预算切入，快速验证迭代"] end O1 --> O2 --> O3 N1 --> N2 --> N3 ``` 克里斯对此极度认同，并幽默地总结了自己的信条：“除了毒品，什么都可以拿来测试。”然而，对于已有既定准则的老问题，克里斯绝不盲目试错，而是寻找过去十年中以聪明方式解决过该问题的标杆来直接套用。以招聘为例，传统企业往往耗费数周时间进行多轮冗长面试，而克里斯则借鉴了著名创业孵化器 Y Combinator（YC）的做法： - **YC 的极限面试法**：YC 仅进行 7 分钟的极速面试（他们甚至曾想缩短到 5 分钟，只是觉得那样显得太粗鲁），在面试的前 3 分钟内就能判断出候选团队是否合适。 - **大数定律试用机制**：克里斯在招聘中放弃“花 30 天押注一个人”的传统模式，而是同时给 5 个人为期 30 天的实际工作机会，让他们用真实产出证明能力。实战经验表明，耗费一个月精挑细选出来的单个人选，其成功概率并不比这 5 人池中的任何一个更高。克里斯感慨，之前创办仓储代发货公司时，他白白花了 2 年时间在老问题上瞎搞创新，结果兜兜转转 2 年后，公司的业务架构与同行变得一模一样。如果一开始就老老实实照抄同行的现成方案，直接就能省下整整 2 年的黄金时间。史蒂芬对此深表赞同：创业者最常犯的致命错误，就是在规律早已确立的老问题上耗费数年去搞无谓的“伪创新”，真正聪明的创始人应当把所有精力集中在突破新问题上，而把老问题直接交给成熟经验和专业人士。 --- ### [23:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1419s) 瞄准巨头盲区：疯狂搬空 Buc-ee's 打造线上杂货铺史蒂芬将话题转向了克里斯在网络上轰动一时、引发疯传的传奇创业案例——围绕美国著名连锁便利店品牌 Buc-ee's 展开的套利实验。克里斯向海外听众解释，Buc-ee's 虽然全美仅有大约 50 家门店，但整体年营收却高达数十亿美元。它绝非普通意义上的加油站，单店面积通常在 40,000 到 80,000 平方英尺之间，体量庞大如超级市场。这些门店大多坐落在远离城市的自驾公路干道上，成为人们长途旅行（例如从达拉斯驱车前往海滩）必经的狂欢式打卡站，顾客进店后不仅会加满油，还会狂热地消费数百美元购买大量零食周边，品牌忠诚度极高。这个点子的诞生极具戏剧性。当时克里斯正经营着自己的电商代发货仓库，他带着合伙人兼表弟一起去逛 Buc-ee's 体验。在开车回程途经达拉斯-沃斯堡（DFW）的一座巨大高架桥下时，克里斯突然灵光一闪，对表弟说：“这家公司的线上业务肯定赚疯了，线上销售额绝对是个天文数字！”他联想到迪士尼仅凭官网上卖 T 恤一年就能狂揽几十亿美元，而 Buc-ee's 尽管规模远不及迪士尼、且门店主要集中在东南部，但其粉丝忠诚度却丝毫不逊色，全世界各地都能看到人们穿着印有那只土拨鼠标志的 T 恤。然而，当他们火速打开 Buc-ee's 官网时，眼前的一幕让他们目瞪口呆：网站上居然**连一个“商店”（Shop）按钮都没有**，这家拥有狂热粉丝群体的巨头竟然完全没有开展任何线上零售业务。克里斯脑中的灵感火花瞬间全部炸开。尽管身兼运营重任、性格沉稳的表弟竭力想让情绪亢奋的克里斯冷静下来，但陷入“多动症式狂热”的克里斯根本停不下来，他下定决心放手一搏：“不行，我们必须搞一票大的！买下他们店里所有商品各一件，找专业摄影师拍片，搭建我们自己的非官方 Buc-ee's 在线商城，然后拼尽全力让它刷屏病毒式传播！” 克里斯开启了这场“要么爆红，要么拉倒”（viral or bust）的豪赌： - **扫货与建站**：克里斯带上自己的 4 个孩子，自费砸下数千美元，驱车前往 Buc-ee's 将店内能买到的商品每样买回一件。货物堆满了他的发货仓库，随后雇佣摄影师为所有商品拍摄专业电商主图，迅速将独立站上线运营。 - **孤注一掷做公关**：此前克里斯曾尝试给 Buc-ee's 官方发送商业合作的冷邮件（Cold Email），希望能携手将品牌推向线上，但作为无名小卒，根本无人理会。克里斯于是转向媒体界，给所有能找到的记者广撒邮件爆料。 - **引爆全美舆论**：终于有一位记者对这个“疯狂小伙线上代购 Buc-ee's”的故事产生了浓厚兴趣，随即撰写专题报道并联系 Buc-ee's 官方征求置评。这篇重磅报道一经发出，瞬间吸引了数以百万计的读者，全美各大主流媒体也纷纷跟进转播，将克里斯推上了互联网舆论的风口浪尖。 ### [26:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1584s) Buc-ee's 网站的百万收益与“雷暴装瓶”般的机遇媒体报道后，Chris Koerner 为连锁便利店巨头 Buc-ee's 建立的第三方转售网站在最初的 30 天内就完全依靠自然流量实现了数十万美元的销售额。这一爆炸性增长迅速引起了 Buc-ee's 官方的注意。Buc-ee's 并没有直接发出停止函（Cease & Desist），而是提出了一系列严苛的要求以确保品牌不会产生混淆：网站必须全方位添加免责声明，明确指出自身与 Buc-ee's 无关且毫无隶属关系；此外，由于 Buc-ee's 的吉祥物是一只海狸（Beaver），官方要求将原域名中包含的“Beaver”字样彻底剔除。Chris 迅速对网站进行了全盘调整，随后 Buc-ee's 方面给出了非官方的默许态度：“我们不会签署任何书面协议，但你们获得了我们的祝福，祝你们玩得开心。”时至今日，这个已经运营了 5 年的网站仍由 Chris 团队 100% 控股，持续带来数百万美元的丰厚收入。当被问及普通人是否能在现实世界中复制这种机会时，Chris 坦言，这在某种程度上是不可复制的“雷暴装瓶”（lightning in a bottle）。虽然像 Trader Joe's 这样的线下品牌也具有极高的粉丝忠诚度和类似属性，但他们极其热衷于发起诉讼（litigious）。Chris 直言，如果市面上还有其他类似品牌能用同样的方式打通线上与线下，他早就动手去做了。但他强调，听众绝不应该因此感到气馁，因为在宏观层面上，这个案例的核心启发在于：每个人都应当极度认真地对待自己脑海中冒出的好奇想法。 ### [27:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1674s) 缩短思考到行动的时间：锻炼“行动偏好肌” Chris 提出了一个关键的行动框架：创业者必须大幅缩短“产生想法”与“采取行动”之间的时间间隔。每个人平时都会不断产生好想法或坏想法，也常常需要面对艰难的对话，但大多数人仅仅任由这些想法一闪而过。如果能主动压缩从闪念到行动的时间，就能不断强化自己的“行动偏好肌”（bias for action muscle）。这种执行力会形成一个自我驱动、不断复利的滚雪球效应：行动越多，涌现的灵感就越多，尝试新工具、进行小实验的速度就越快，最终自然会滚出一个多维的业务资产组合。许多人以为像 Chris 这样走进 Buc-ee's 能看到商机是某种特殊的思维天分，但 Chris 否认了这种“天才论”。他认为绝大多数普通人在逛店时同样会有“这里要是改进一下就好了”的念头，唯一的区别在于，经验丰富的人已经养成了“为想法做点什么”的肌肉记忆，在反复测试中脱敏了对失败的恐惧。正如他所言，“每个专家都是从初学者起步的”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 从想法到行动的复利闭环 accDescr: 展现缩短思考到行动间隔如何通过行动肌肉带动复利增长的流程图 subgraph Mindset ["思维触发阶段"] A["产生好奇/商业灵感"] --> B["极速压缩行动间隔"] end subgraph Action ["执行锻炼阶段"] B --> C["即刻执行微小测试"] C --> D["强化行动偏好肌肉"] end subgraph Compound ["复利放大阶段"] D --> E["降低对失败的恐惧"] E --> F["工具积累与经验沉淀"] F --> G["构建多业务资产组合"] G -.->|"激发更多高质量灵感"| A end ``` 即使一个人在尝试后发现创业根本无法带给自己能量、甚至明确认识到“这不适合我”，这也是极具价值的反馈——他们至少彻底打消了心底的问号，可以心安理得地将创业交给别人去做。Chris 最不忍心看到的就是人们脸上的遗憾（regret）。他见过身边太多满脑子绝妙点子、天天念叨着创业的朋友，终其一生被“如果我当年去做了会怎样”的执念所折磨，因此他迫切希望人们亲自去尝一口创业的滋味。 ### [30:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1823s) 创业的自我筛选：谁该入局，谁该留下？创业具有天然的“幸存者偏差”和残酷的自我筛选机制（self-selecting）。Chris 评估身边朋友是否真正属于创业者，标准只有一个：他们究竟在多大程度上推动了这个想法落地。 - **浅尝辄止者**：发微信抛出一个想法，得到 Chris 的建议与反馈后便音讯全无。对于这类人，Chris 完全不会为他们感到惋惜，因为他们缺乏最基本的推动力。 - **持续推进者**：拿到反馈后不断跟进、测试、迭代，哪怕项目最终在中途夭折，这也是完全正常且健康的信号。这表明该想法本该被淘汰，他们只需迅速切换到下一个实验。面对“谁绝对不应该辞职创业”的提问，Chris 脑海中立刻浮现出一位年近五十的朋友：该朋友年薪高达 40 万美元，生活安稳且对本职工作挺满意。从风险收益比（risk-reward）的角度来看，一个 48 岁、背负着 4 个孩子的父亲贸然辞掉 40 万美元的高薪职位去创业，承担的下行风险与潜在收益严重失衡。许多人私下找到 Chris，近乎恳求他鼓励自己辞职，但从一开始就以创业为生的 Chris 坚决拒绝扮演这种鲁莽的怂恿者。 ### [32:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1966s) 兼职副业的杠杆原理与安全“破釜沉舟”的时机谈及那些“明明极具才华却迟迟不迈出脚步”的人，Chris 提到了自己的一位工程师好友。工程师通常具备敏锐的解构思维和过硬的职业操守，天生是优秀的创业胚子。这位朋友虽然在本职工作中痛苦不堪，且总能提出极其出色的商业构想，却迟迟不敢行动。其核心症结在于内心深处的恐惧与不安全感——害怕彻底失去为家庭带来优渥生活的确定性，且一旦失败将覆水难收。针对这种顾虑，Chris 指出了他在思维逻辑上的致命误区：**创业绝不意味着必须立刻辞职**。每个人每天都有足够的业余时间和周末去将商业模式验证到位。然而，副业在时间投入与产出之间存在一种独特的非线性反直觉规律： | 工作状态 | 投入精力 | 年收入产出 | 核心特征与机制 | |:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **全职主业 + 业余副业** | 40小时/周（主业） 20小时/周（副业） | $200,000（主业） $50,000（副业） | 副业天花板较低，受限于碎片化精力和兼职状态 | | **全职投入副业（破釜沉舟）** | 40小时/周（副业） | $500,000 | 时间仅增加一倍，收入却暴增 **10 倍**；背后是背水一战带来的专注爆发力 | Chris 极力告诫创业者切忌过早“破釜沉舟”（burn the boats）。必须在看清清晰的规模化增长路径、且安全网依然完备时，才能做出全面转型的决定。他所定义的理想跳槽时机必须满足以下关键验证指标： - 获客渠道（如 Facebook 广告）已经过小额测试，验证了高转化率并实现稳定盈利。 - 业务模型具备明确的放大路径，即便伴随而来的是客服压力骤增或网站架构的重构负担。 - 个人保留了退路保障，例如与前雇主关系良好，确信在极端情况下原公司依然乐意重新录用自己。 ### [35:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2157s) “破釜沉舟”的悖论与“退路”对奋斗动力的瓦解针对创业者是否应该彻底斩断退路、破釜沉舟（Burn the boats），Chris Koerner 坦诚地给出了一个“百分之百自我矛盾”的答案。作为理性维度的 Chris，一个拥有四个孩子的父亲与丈夫，他明确主张必须保留退路（Plan B）以承担家庭责任。在当今时代，市场上有无数低成本的测试工具、外包渠道，创业者可以寻找合伙人分担工作，甚至发动伴侣或孩子协助，在彻底辞职之前完全有充足的手段去彻底验证一个项目。然而，感性维度的 Chris 却有着截然不同的亲身经历。在他的创业生涯中，曾有两次是“别人替他烧毁了退路”：当时他靠着盈利且能支付账单的 Plan B 作为安全网，在暗中测试新业务；结果半夜有人潜入烧掉了他的船，逼得他别无选择只能在 Plan A 上孤注一掷。出人意料的是，失去退路后 Plan A 迎来了爆发式增长。这并不是单纯因为失去了安全垫，而是这件事激发了一种“有毒的动力”（Toxic motivation）与骨子里的好胜心——他迫切地想要向那些烧毁他退路的家伙证明：“我根本不需要那些船，我绝不走回头路，这座新岛屿比我来时的故土好得多。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 退路存在与否对执行力的心理机制影响 accDescr: 对比有Plan B时的懈怠机制与失去退路后触发的好胜心与爆发力 subgraph Plan_B_Present["存在退路 (Plan B)"] A["设定目标任务"] --> B["潜意识认知：尚有保底手段"] B --> C["付出的专注力与努力程度衰减"] end subgraph Boats_Burned["破釜沉舟 (No Plan B)"] D["失去安全网 / 外部倒逼"] --> E["激发好胜心与有毒动力"] E --> F["专注度与执行力全开，全力以赴"] end ``` Steven 对此补充了一项严谨的心理学对照实验：研究人员让两组学生通过解谜题来赢取零食奖励，但其中一组被提前告知“走廊尽头的自动售货机里随时也可以买到同样的零食”。实验结果显示，那些知道自己有“退路”（Plan B）的学生，在解谜上付出的努力显著低于另一组。这证明人类心智一旦感知到可以从其他途径获得等同回报，在主线上投入的拼劲就会大打折扣。Chris 观察身边的创业圈发现，在经过验证后主动放弃 Plan A 全力扑向新项目的人，极少有一败涂地的；相反，每当询问那些果断斩断退路的人是否恐慌时，他们给出的回答无一例外是：“我现在兴奋极了，我必须全力以赴让它成功”，而最终他们往往真的能做成。 --- ### [39:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2350s) 被神化的“被动收入”：从“流汗的脏活累活”开始针对大众对副业实现“被动收入”（Passive Income）的狂热执念，Chris 直言不讳地指出，这个词在网络舆论中已经沦为一个被神化的银色子弹，堪称“财务界的司美格鲁肽（Financial Ozempic）”。很多人渴望像吃下减肥神药一样，不费吹灰之力就躺着赚钱。 Chris 对真正意义上的被动收入给出了极为严苛的界定：那必须是一种无需持续投入精力即可源源不断获取的进账，比如购买国债享受 4% 的无风险收益，什么都不用做就能拿钱。然而在创业初期，指望立刻建立被动收入几乎是天方夜谭。现实是残酷的： - 创业初期必须放下身段，主动去赚取“主动收入”（Active income）、“流汗的收入”（Sweaty income）甚至“丑陋的收入”（Ugly income）。 - 唯有在脏活、累活、苦活中摸爬滚打足够长的时间，积累了足够的原始资本和行业杠杆之后，真正的被动收入才会变得具象而现实。 --- ### [40:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2424s) 案例复盘：德州烈日下的汽车代购与“有退路”的放弃为了阐释何为“流汗又丑陋的收入”，Chris 分享了自己早期做过的一个非典型业务——二手车私人代购（Concierge car buying business）。 - **商业模式设计**：Chris 走完了所有合规流程，拿下了正规二手车经销商牌照（Dealer's permit），从而拥有进入大型汽车拍卖会以批发底价拍车的资格。但他并不采用传统车商先压资金拿库存、再放到展厅销售的重资产模式，而是采用定制代购模式：客户提出具体要求（例如“一辆蓝色的 2024 款丰田红杉 Sequoia，里程少于 3 万英里”），Chris 直接前往拍卖行精准拍下该车，向客户收取约 700 美元的固定服务费。 - **模式优势**：客户以批发底价拿到了心仪车辆，省下了差价；Chris 赚取了服务费，且完全规避了传统车行的库存贬值风险与资金积压。这门生意在商业逻辑上完全行得通，也是很多从业者赖以致富的行当（如 Chris 认识的一位阿拉巴马州从业者就赚得盆满钵满）。但对于 Chris 而言，实际执行过程却极其痛苦：他在得克萨斯州滚烫的柏油路面上顶着烈日暴晒，不仅对修车和汽车机械一窍不通，还数次遭遇将拍下的二手车开回途中直接抛锚在路边的窘境。虽然这门生意确实盈利且赚钱，但由于过程又累又丑陋，加上当时 Chris 手头还有其他赚钱的主业作为退路（Plan B），他毫不犹豫地关闭了这项业务，迅速掉头转向其他赛道。 --- ### [41:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2515s) 先追利润，再谈热情：Ikigai模型的现实打开方式关于创业者是否必须对自己所从事的领域怀抱“热情”（Passion），Chris 提出了非常务实的法则：“追随利润（Profit），直到你有能力去追随热情。” Chris 强调，创业初期如果强求将个人爱好与赚钱完美绑定，失败率几乎是 100%，因为一个普通人当下热爱的事物与商业市场上能迅速变现的需求，在初始阶段发生重合的统计概率微乎其微。创业者应该培养的底层热情是对“商业与交易本身”的热爱——即享受“将 1 美元变成 2 美元”的游戏机制。只要对这套商业底逻辑充满热情，无论将其套用到任何具体商品或服务上，都能保持高度胜率。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Ikigai与创业阶段的匹配策略 accDescr: 阐述从单一追求利润扩展技能，最终迈向Ikigai黄金重叠点的路径 subgraph Phase1["初创阶段：积累与测试"] A["商业底层热爱 (将1美元变成2美元)"] --> B["跟进高利润项目 (承接脏活累活)"] B --> C["扩大尝试的接触面 (跑步/烹饪/木工/短视频)"] end subgraph Phase2["跃迁阶段：Ikigai 甜蜜点"] C --> D["你热爱的"] C --> E["你擅长的"] C --> F["世界所需的"] C --> G["别人愿意付费的"] D & E & F & G --> H["可持续放大的终身事业 (Ikigai Sweet Spot)"] end ``` 许多人常误以为自己缺乏毅力或天性懒惰，但实际上每个人体内都刻着努力工作的基因，人们之所以感到枯竭，往往是因为手头从事的事情无法为其提供情绪能量。Chris 以自己酷爱的木工为例：他绝不会盲目围绕木工开办公司，因为若是一开始就死磕在木工上却赚不到钱，整个创业旅程就会被扼杀。相反，创业者应该扩大探索的“接触面”（Surface area），主动测试各种可能性。这就是日本“Ikigai”（生存价值）哲学的现实实践路径： - **四大维度**：你热爱的、你擅长的、世界所需的、别人愿意为之付费的。 - 四者的交叉点固然是终身可扩展的“甜蜜点”（Sweet spot），但绝对不能在第一天就对其产生精神内耗，否则只会终身困在死工资的牢笼中。 Steven 也深有感触地呼应了这一观点：他在早年创立营销代理公司并逐步转型为软件产品业务时，每天的工作其实是协助可口可乐卖出更多汽水、帮 Uber 招徕更多打车乘客，这绝非他人生真正的终极热情所在；然而，正是这段不带个人浪漫幻想的商业摸爬滚打，为他淬炼出了一整套无可替代的核心底层技能。 ### [45:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2718s) 专注与分心的真实信号：做真正热爱的事 Steven 谈及自己在退出上一家公司后，曾度过一段四处探索的时期：尝试迷幻药体验、学习 DJ 打碟、做软件开发、钻研 Web3……当走出那段摸索期后，他向自己提出了一个触及灵魂的“终极问题”：在所有尝试过的事情中，究竟哪一件是无论赚钱与否自己都甘之如饴的？在 2020 年，他的答案浮出水面——那就是做现在的播客节目。他甚至在没有仔细实地看房的情况下，就直接从纽约搬到了伦敦，只因为那间房子的格局看起来非常适合搭建一个播客影棚；随后他联系了团队成员 Jack，大约五年前开启了每周更新的旅程，最终发展成如今规模庞大的商业版图。但 Steven 坦言，这需要阶段性条件的支撑：如果在第一天就做这档节目，他既没有如何扩大受众影响力的经验技能，也没有启动资金去购买价值五万美元的一整套专业摄影设备。 Chris 对此深有共鸣。他指出，许多人往往在错误的时间强求专注，或者因为注意力分散而陷入自责。然而在 Chris 看来，“分心往往是一个信号”，它提醒你当前做的事情可能并不是最佳归宿，或者外界有更契合的机会。当一个项目拥有完美的 PMF（产品市场契合度）且势如破竹时，创始人根本不会分心去想“我是不是该开个 DJ 公司”，而是会全身心扑在上面；反之，如果你在手头的项目上三心二意、总想试这试那，与其盲目强调“必须专注”，不如倾听这种分心背后的深层指引。Chris 自嘲道，不知道这是在为自己的 ADHD（注意力缺陷多动障碍）寻找借口，还是商业上的客观规律，但他始终对日常冒出的分心信号保持敏锐。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 商业专注与分心的信号机制 accDescr: 展示当产品拥有PMF时产生的极致专注，以及缺乏吸引力时分心所释放的探索信号。 subgraph 强求专注的误区 A["手头项目缺乏PMF"] --> B["内心不断产生分心念头"] B --> C["过度自责 / 盲目强推"] end subgraph 正确的信号解读 B -.->|"倾听信号"| D["分心代表此路不通或有更好机会"] D --> E["探索并找到真正热爱且爆发的项目"] E --> F["订单与受众追着跑（天然专注）"] end ``` ### [47:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2830s) 想法过滤框架：“周日搁置板”与“两周法则” 面对脑海中源源不断冒出的创业点子，Steven 分享了自己的“周日搁置板（Sunday Shelf）”机制。当他在深夜 11 点突然被某个自以为惊艳的构想彻底迷住时，他不会冲动行事，而是将其随手记录在 Monday 看板的搁置区里静置观察。点子的热度通常遵循一条经典的情绪弧线：最初是盲目狂热，觉得自己发明了世界上最棒的东西、注定要成亿万富翁；接着深入了解后，便坠入“绝望之谷（Valley of Despair）”，痛感这简直是个愚蠢至极的主意。如果一个想法在跌入低谷后，依然有某种强大的吸引力将他拉出深渊，他才会认定这个方向值得全力以赴。 Chris 则有一套高度精炼的“两周法则”： - **即兴激情的快速衰减**：在机场或洗手间突然产生的灵感，可能在随手查查资料后的第二天就被彻底抛诸脑后，这种随风而散的点子无需在意。 - **两周留存测试**：如果两周之后，这个构想依然死死盘踞在脑子里挥之不去，甚至促使自己在生活中四处搜集素材、按捺不住给朋友们狂发语音备忘录（Voice Notes），那就说明背后必有值得深挖的商业价值。 ### [48:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2929s) 什么是真正的产品验证：从推石上山到被巨石追赶谈到许多创业者容易走入的验证误区，Chris 强调，所谓“验证（Validation）”，绝不是听到亲朋好友客套地说一句“还挺好的”。如果顾客对一款食品仅仅评价“味道不错”，那在商业上意味着你未来每走一步都要像“推巨石上山”一样艰难；真正的验证，是顾客脸上瞬间绽放出的惊喜与狂喜，甚至追问“天哪，这是我吃过最棒的东西，你在哪里买的？怎么做出来的？” 为了说明这一点，Chris 讲述了自己妻子的方形曲奇饼干（Cookie Bar）副业： - **拒绝虚假的网络反馈**：妻子最初将曲奇寄给全国各地的亲戚朋友，收到的反馈千篇一律是“很好吃、我们很喜欢”。但这种隔空反馈缺乏可信度，因为对方很可能是出于亲情或礼貌在恭维。 - **线下肉身测试**：他们带着产品直接来到当地的农贸市场（Farmers Market）摆摊，免费提供试吃。Chris 站在一旁静静观察路人的即时反应。 - **三维重合判定法则**：观察试吃者“嘴里说的话”、“肢体语言”以及“面部即时微表情”这三者是否高度统一。只有当这三者同时爆发正面反馈时，才能证实产品真正打动了市场。 Chris 进一步打比方说，95% 的常规商业运营都是“进两步、退一步”地苦苦跋涉；但有 5% 的罕见时刻，你会体验到真正的 PMF——那就像是一块巨大的巨石在身后追着你狂奔，汹涌而来的客户需求让你忙到顾不上睡觉、通宵打包发货、回复邮件，根本无暇被其他新鲜事物分心。 ### [52:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3122s) 零成本极速测品：利用 Meta 生态与 AI 打造极简 MVP 针对《精益创业》（*The Lean Startup*）中倡导的 MVP（最小可行产品）理念，Steven 提问：普通创业者往往误以为必须辞职、筹集巨款并耗费两三年时间研发，才能验证一个点子，那具体该如何用低成本方案进行压力测试？ Chris 推荐了每天有四分之一人类都在使用的底层工具——Meta 生态体系（包含 Facebook 群组、WhatsApp、Instagram、Facebook Marketplace、主页与 Meta 广告这六大核心工具）。为了展示其实操流程，Steven 现场提出了一个创业假想：“打造一个专为女性设计、口感极佳的肌酸（Creatine）品牌”： 1. **AI 概念视觉化**：利用 ChatGPT 或 Nano Banana 等 AI 图像生成工具，将产品文案与设想输入，一键生成肌酸软糖（Gummy）与肌酸粉（Powder）两种形态的高清概念包装图。 2. **极简低阻力发布**：不急于研发配方或投入生产，直接把生成的概念图上传至 Facebook Marketplace，配上最直白的营销文案（如强调“打破传统难闻气味、专为女性打造、提升认知与机能”）。 3. **测试市场即时回响**：利用二手交易市场几乎为零的发布门槛与原生流量，直接观察是否有真实用户咨询或下单。 Chris 总结道，创业起步阶段最关键的哲学是：“专注往往被过分高估，而势头（Momentum）却被严重低估。”先用阻力最小的方式让飞轮转动起来，远比闭门造车重要得多。 ### [54:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3249s) 极低摩擦力的创意测试：从 Facebook Marketplace 起步针对任何商业创意，Chris Koerner 推荐的第一步永远是寻找阻力最小、摩擦力最低（low friction）的验证方式。许多人试图直接上手 Meta 广告，但广告后台的操作极其繁琐，初学者很容易因遭遇挫折而在第二天直接放弃，即使手头的点子本身极具爆款潜力。以女性肌酸软糖为例，虽然 Facebook Marketplace 并不是人们常规购买肌酸的地方，但它坐拥 20 亿庞大用户群，足以捕捉到早期的潜在需求。 Chris 详细拆解了具体的对比测试框架：先在 Facebook Marketplace 上发布一条肌酸软糖的帖子，配上软糖图片；紧接着发布另一条肌酸粉剂的帖子，除了图片换成粉剂外，文案标题、产品卖点、详细描述完全一致，甚至目标本地市场的投放半径也保持恒定，严格控制变量。随后打开 Google Sheets，记录下 Facebook 提供的三项核心指标：浏览量（Views）、点击量（Clicks）与私信咨询量（Messages/Reachouts）。在短短两小时内，就能通过数据对比看出哪种形态更有吸引力。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Facebook Marketplace 低摩擦低成本验证流程 accDescr: 展示如何在同一本地市场控制变量测试不同产品形态与文案，并记录反馈 subgraph Phase1["第一阶段：控制变量测试（2小时内）"] A["同一本地市场 & 相同半径"] A --> B["软糖形态帖子 标题/卖点/价格一致"] A --> C["粉剂形态帖子 标题/卖点/价格一致"] end subgraph Phase2["第二阶段：数据收集与追加预算"] B & C --> D["Google Sheets 监控 浏览量 / 点击量 / 私信数"] D --> E["1-2天后各追加 $10 推广 观察转化增量"] end subgraph Phase3["第三阶段：矩阵裂变测试"] E --> F["扩充至 10+ 组帖子 测试不同图片/标题/定价/卖点"] end ``` - **数据驱动测试**：在对比初期，即使样本容量并不大，也能成为极具价值的决策锚点；两天后可分别花 10 美元对两条帖子进行付费推广（Boost），观察付费放大后流量是成倍激增还是石沉大海。 - **矩阵测试**：随后快速复制出 10 条左右的新帖子，轮换测试不同的图片、标题、定价区间和文案卖点，将所有表现全部汇总至 Google 表格。 - **社群情报挖掘**：在测试进行的同时，立即潜入与目标受众重叠的 Facebook 社群（如热爱健身的妈妈群、越野跑妈妈群、力量训练群等），主动检索“肌酸”、“软糖”、“粉剂”、“价格”与“供应商”，收集最真实的讨论与痛点数据。 ### [57:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3428s) 掌握 Facebook 广告：现代商业的“无限金钱外挂” Chris 指出，上述 Marketplace 测试与社群挖掘只需要投入一个下午约两小时的时间。在此之后，下一步就是掌握真正的 Facebook 广告体系。学习基础并不需要耗费数月，只要带着具体的产品目标，边建广告边上手（而非陷入无休止地刷 YouTube 教程的被动学习），只需几天时间就能达到熟练运用的水平。在 Chris 看来，精通 Facebook 广告是当代每个创业者都必须具备的基础底层能力。他将其形容为“商业世界里的无限印钞外挂”（infinite money glitch / magic money machine），不仅是 Meta 成为万亿美元巨头的基石，其重要性也犹如学会发邮件或搭建网站一样不可或缺。正因为极少有人愿意静下心来啃下这门技术，市面上的广告代运营机构才能收取昂贵的服务费用。 ### [58:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3490s) 供应链打样与线下地推闭环一旦通过 Facebook 获得了清晰的数据反馈，明确了最受欢迎的产品形态、价格区间、口味与包装颜色，接下来才是供应链环节。Chris 会去寻找专业的代工厂（co-packer / contract packer），向其阐述需求并索取产品样品。拿到实体样品后，并不急于大批量生产，而是直接带去农贸市场（Farmer's Market）或人流密集处，让真实人群试吃并现场收集一手反馈。只有当线上的数字验证与线下的感官体验形成完整闭环后，这个商业项目才算真正具备全力推进的底气。 ### [58:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3531s) B2B 广告精准触达与赞助商介绍很多创始人困惑为什么在某些平台上投广告毫无水花，除了文案平庸或视觉疲软，核心症结通常在于广告根本没有触达到对的受众。特别是做 B2B 业务时，找对关键决策人就是商业游戏的全部。 LinkedIn 广告拥有极为细分的定向能力，支持按职位头衔、资历级别、公司规模、所处行业乃至专业技能进行精准投放。其平台拥有超过 10 亿职场专业人士，其中决策者数量达 1.3 亿，能够确保预算精准直达采购拍板人。在实操经验中，LinkedIn 广告所带来的 B2B 广告支出回报率（ROAS）在各大主流广告网络中名列前茅。受众访问 `linkedin.com/diary` 并在首个广告活动中消费 250 美元，即可获赠额外的 250 美元广告抵用额度。 ### [59:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3594s) 创业者的三种类型：开创者、维护者与终结者 Chris 将创业者划分为三种截然不同的生态位，并坦言清楚自己的定位至关重要： | 创业者类型 | 对应角色 | 核心特质与行为模式 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **开创者（Starter）** | 构想家 / 创意机器（Visionary） | 擅长从 0 到 1 破局，创意层出不穷，不仅能构思商业模式，对优化营销方案、改写邮件标题等微观打法同样充满灵感。 | | **维护者（Maintainer）** | 运营者（Operator） | 流程导向型人才，热爱日常精细化调优与微小改进，热衷于日复一日地解决运营中的细碎问题并推动业务平稳增长。 | | **终结者（Finisher）** | 交易撮合者（Dealmaker） | 超级连接者，擅长对接关键人物促成战略合作、设计创造性的退出与收购方案、招聘核心高管，带领公司走向终局。 | Chris 毫不避讳地承认自己是一个彻头彻尾的“开创者”。如果让他在一家公司待得太久，整个项目反倒容易在他手里崩盘。因此他必须在特定节点将控制权交接出去，或者在创立之初就找好性格互补的“维护者”搭档接盘。当被问及是否有人能同时兼具这三种特质时，Chris 直言，三者兼备的凤毛麟角，通常对应的是将企业从零一路推到万亿市值的顶尖人物，例如黄仁勋（Jensen Huang）、埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）以及马克·扎克伯格（Mark Zuckerberg）；像比尔·盖茨和史蒂夫·乔布斯，在公司达到万亿市值之前便已离开一线管理。 ### [01:02:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3724s) 极度专注的力量：乔布斯与扎克伯格的战略取舍 Steven Bartlett 对 Chris 连续创办 75 到 80 家公司的经历提出探讨，并引入了“专注（Focus）”的话题。在与诸如 Kevin O'Leary 等接触过全球顶级商业领袖的人物交流时，他们频繁提到的关键词正是极度专注。 - **乔布斯的 80/20 信号法则**：Kevin O'Leary 曾评价史蒂夫·乔布斯是一个“80% 关注信号，20% 过滤噪音”的人，他将 80% 的时间死磕在最核心的战略要务上，对其他一切杂事均予以无情拒绝。 - **说“不”的艺术**：苹果传奇设计师 Jony Ive 也曾公开表示，乔布斯最惊人的特质正是他惊人的专注力；乔布斯常常会当面质问团队成员：“为了聚焦在眼前最重要的事情上，你今天究竟对哪些事情说了‘不’？” - **扎克伯格的移动端战役**：扎克伯格在 Meta（前 Facebook）也展现出不可思议的战略聚焦能力。据 Meta 内部员工透露，当扎克伯格敏锐意识到公司在移动端转型落后时，他甚至直接拒绝参加任何与移动端无关的会议，强行将全公司的战略焦点完全扭转到移动端开发上来。 ### [01:02:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3779s) 极致专注与“亿万富翁陷阱”：为何选择做百万富翁兼称职父亲史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）提出了商业界一个核心的叙事冲突：像埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）这样的顶尖企业家拥有令人难以置信的极端专注力。《创智赢家》（Shark Tank）的凯文·奥利里（Kevin O'Leary）曾对史蒂文提及，马斯克是他见过唯一一个以“接近 100% 信号率（Signal）”运转的人；传记作家沃尔特·艾萨克森（Walter Isaacson）也证实，马斯克在会议中如果听到不属于最核心、最重要的事情，会整个人完全神游走神，而一旦切中关键议题，他会瞬间“拉回现实并掌控全场”，深扎于细节之中。世界上最庞大的企业几乎都是极端病态般专注的产物，这与克里斯·柯纳（Chris Koerner）所推崇的“尝试几十个副业、同时开展多个项目”的做法截然相反。克里斯毫不避讳地承认了这个客观规律：“在其他条件完全相同的情况下，更专注的人确实更有可能成为亿万富翁（Billionaire）。”但他随即指出，维系动量、能从日常事务中持续获取能量的人，则更有可能成为百万富翁（Millionaire）。克里斯直言自己内心完全没有成为亿万富翁的渴望：“如果某天自然达到了，那挺酷；但我压根不想给我的孩子们留几千万甚至上亿美元的财富。”他曾经尝试过深度专注、成立董事会、按部就班地管理，但那只会带来无尽的折磨。如果极致专注意味着十亿美元的退出、整天坐在会议室面对董事会汇报、扮演严肃的首席执行官，那将是一个“痛苦不堪的克里斯”。面对史蒂文的追问——“如果集中专注 10 年拼到一个十亿美元，随后四五十年拿这些资本做更大、更具实验性且充满乐趣的尝试，难道不划算吗？”克里斯坚决表示这“得不偿失（the juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze）”。押注更大的项目只会带来更多的商务出行、更多的无休止会议以及更少陪伴孩子的时间。他承认这听起来可能不够宏大：“我没打算去解决世界饥荒，那该由别人来解决；我想做的是用一台 iPhone 帮助普通人开启小生意，改变他们的生活，同时成为一名时刻在场的合格父亲。”对他而言，要过上理想的人生，反而是要学会“少专注一点，而不是更专注”。 - **极端专注的代价**：无休止的董事会汇报、行政会议与差旅，牺牲的是陪伴子女成长的黄金时间。 - **跨越数百年的财富观**：克里斯拥有极其长远的永恒视角，他调侃道：“何必把自己折腾得痛苦万分，只为了让我公元 2300 年的第四代重孙成为巨富，而不是第二代？” - **17 年的积累与沉浮**：今天看似随性的副业帝国背后，是长达 17 年的反复试错；零收入的年份其实远多于大赚的年份，全靠高峰年的利润填补低谷，以及一位坚定不移、默默支持他的妻子。 --- ### [01:07:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4024s) 专注押注失败的内疚与男人的“静音崩溃” 当史蒂文问及在创业过程中是否曾对伴侣或家庭感到内疚时，克里斯的回答斩钉截铁：“不止一次，很多次。”他分享了一段刻骨铭心的经历：他曾耗费整整 18 个月全神贯注于一个单一项目，寄希望于最终的巨额回报，整个过程没有任何正向现金流。这正是“过度专注”最具破坏性的阴暗面——一旦把所有筹码压在错误的方向上，反噬将是毁灭性的。当时该项目在客观数据上呈现出一切向好的增长迹象，但为了维系全家的生活水平，克里斯不得不变卖手头的几套出租房和资产来垫付开销，竭力在家人面前筑起一道防火墙，独自承受办公室里的资金绞杀。 18 个月后，这个实验彻底归零。时间、资金全军覆没，换来的是排山倒海的负罪感。在家庭生活中，这种巨大的内部消耗表现为：父亲在家里变得越来越沉默、喜怒无常，却始终无法向家人倾诉。即使妻子恳求他敞开心扉讲讲工作上的烦恼，他也选择闭口不谈，因为“一旦开口谈论压力，反而会让压力在体内加倍膨胀”。史蒂文对此感同身受，并指出了创业者在亲密关系中的经典悖论：很多男性回家选择不聊工作，是因为“不解释、不讨论”本身就是一种脱敏和减压机制。但伴侣会因为被蒙在鼓里而产生误解，误解最终演变为争吵，争吵又催生出更大的心理负担。两人一致认为，在伴侣面前硬扛或彻底切断交流都是危险的，创业者必须在家庭之外找到宣泄口——比如同样身处创业圈子、能够真正理解这种处境的同行与朋友。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 创业压力家庭传导悖论 accDescr: 展现创业者在面临重大商业压力时试图保护家庭却适得其反的心理循环机制 subgraph Business["商业端受挫"] A["高风险项目零现金流运作"] --> B["变卖资产/独自硬扛资金压力"] end subgraph HomeReaction["家庭内部闭环"] B --> C["为了免受波及对家人保持沉默"] C --> D["伴侣因信息缺失产生焦虑与误解"] D --> E["家庭摩擦爆发反向加重心理压力"] E -.->|缺乏外界倾诉渠道| C end subgraph Solution["破解路径"] F["寻找懂行的创业圈朋友/外部情绪出口"] end B -.->|更优选择| F ``` --- ### [01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4200s) 匈牙利街头的敲门传教：重塑抗挫折与被拒心态面对 80 多个创业项目的起起落落，克里斯谈到了自己与“拒绝和失败”的深层关系。他坦白道：“如果有人觉得自己不擅长销售就不能做生意，那我告诉你，我至今都极其不擅长销售。”在创业初期，出于极强的虚荣心和自尊心，他甚至给自己设立了一个苛刻的限制：绝不在社交媒体向亲朋好友推销自己的小生意，因为他害怕朋友们看到他的“第 37 个副业”时会翻白眼。这种刻意避开熟人网络的做法让他必须在完全陌生的冰冷市场中硬闯。真正彻底重塑他抗击打能力与心智的，是早年他在东欧为教会担任传教士的两年经历。整整两年时间，克里斯头戴厚重的俄式保暖棉帽，在严寒的匈牙利街头迎着刺骨风雪穿梭，硬着用半生不熟的匈牙利语挨家挨户敲门、搭讪路人。作为一名内向者，他在那两年里承受了成千上万次的当面冷眼与拒绝。即便到了 38 岁的今天，他依然是个不爱社交、讨厌销售的内向型人格，但那段经历彻底重构了他的大脑认知。他不再将拒绝视为个人的失败，而是将其看作一种纯粹的概率游戏：“每一个‘不（No）’，都意味着你距离下一个‘好（Yes）’更近了一步。”如果某项业务的转化率只有 0.1%，那么数理逻辑决定了他必须面对 1,000 个人的拒绝才能换来 1 次成功；如果聊了 1,000 个人依然没有成单，那就意味着在聊到 2,000 人时，统计学规律必然会奉还 2 个转化。理解了这一底层数学法则，被拒绝就不再伴随痛苦，而是变成了达成商业目标必须累积的里程碑。 - **早年销售心结**：因为太在意别人的眼光，坚持不向朋友和家人推销，逼迫自己从零开始面向陌生客户验证商业模式。 - **两年的东欧洗礼**：用非母语在极端天气下敲门扫街，经历数以万计的拒绝，彻底脱敏社交恐惧。 - **销售的统计学本质**：将每一次被拒视为向正向转化靠近的数学必然，利用大数定律彻底击碎内心的挫败感。 ### [01:11:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4307s) 销售是最好的磨练场与试金石 Steven 与 Chris 探讨起年轻时做陌拜销售（Cold Sales）的宝贵价值。Steven 提到自己在 16 岁到 19 岁期间正是做这类销售工作，Chris 也是年少时便投身其中。谈到自己的孩子，Chris 表示虽然家里的四个孩子里有两个性格内向、两个外向，但他非常鼓励他们去尝试销售，甚至他们现在已经开始鼓捣各种小副业。在 Chris 看来，让年轻人去“传教式”（Missions）地跑业务和做销售，是理解商业最快的方式。面对市场，销售本质上是最迅速的测试手段：如果一个人去接触 1,000 位潜在客户，就能尝试 1,000 种不同的切入角度和沟通话术；即便最初的转化率只有可怜的 0.1%，只要能不断收集真实反馈、持续测试、迭代并灵活调整策略，这个转化率完全可以在一次次碰壁与复盘中逐步提升至 5%。 - **销售的本质**：高频测试与快速反馈闭环，从 0.1% 到 5% 的转化率完全取决于迭代速度。 - **家庭教育实践**：不拘泥于性格内向或外向，从小通过真实商业副业与销售场景培养韧性。 --- ### [01:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4350s) 为什么大多数创业者其实不需要合伙人话题切入团队搭建与合伙人选择时，Chris 抛出了一个极为冷峻的观点：大多数人一开始根本不需要商业合伙人。尽管市面上到处充斥着类似 Apple 这种双人联合创始人取得巨大成功的幸存者偏差故事，但聚光灯背后，有 60%、80% 甚至 90% 拥有联合创始人的初创企业都走向了惨烈破裂，却鲜有人撰文反思。 Chris 打了一个生动的比方：人们在步入婚姻前，往往会花费数月乃至数年去深入探讨重大人生规划——未来定居在哪个城市、买怎样的房子、要生几个孩子。例如他和妻子结婚时原本打算要 7 个孩子，随着岁月推移、切身体会到育儿有多难之后，最终商定要 4 个。然而反观商业合作，许多人仅仅是一起去吃了一顿牛油果吐司早午餐，兴头上一拍大腿说“咱们五五平分（50-50）干吧”，转头就草草把合同签了。合伙人关系的维系在现实中往往比婚姻还要艰难得多，但人们花在股权架构和权责规划上的心思，反而比结婚少了 99%。当 Steven 问及经历过多达 15 位合伙人的血泪教训后会给出什么忠告时，Chris 直言，就如同恋爱理论中“寻找好伴侣的最佳方式是先让自己成为好伴侣”一样，创业者在拉人入伙前，必须先彻底认清自己。多数人在合伙之初根本不知道自己属于哪类创业角色——究竟是高瞻远瞩的构想者（Visionary）、擅长落地的整合者（Integrator），还是擅长开拓的发起者（Starter）、守成维稳的维持者（Maintainer），亦或是擅长扫尾的执行者（Finisher）。他强烈建议新手先独立做单人创始人（Solo Founder），在单打独斗中摸清自身的长板与致命短板，日后再次开启新项目时，才能精准找到真正互补的搭档。 --- ### [01:15:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4515s) “平分股权”的陷阱与推迟确立机制谈及股权分配（Equity Split），Chris 痛陈“五五开”是初创团队最常掉入的思维误区。这就像第一次约会刚坐下，两人就定死这辈子必须生四个孩子一样荒谬。表面上看 50/50 凑成 100 整数十分干净好看，但在统计学意义上，五五开要能平稳运转，必须同时满足以下近乎苛刻的前提假设： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 50-50 股权平分能够成功运转的前提假设 accDescr: 展示五五平分股权需要满足的严苛条件以及实际中必然出现的破裂机制 subgraph Assumptions["理想化假定（几乎不可能全部满足）"] A["双方全生命周期 All-in"] B["资金、人脉与投入时间绝对对等"] C["极端无私且毫无怨言的心态"] D["未来10年以完全相同的速率成长"] end subgraph Reality["商业现实演进"] E["业务出现剧烈波动（暴涨或衰退）"] F["贡献失衡引发沉默的不满与怨恨"] end Assumptions --> E E --> F F --> G["团队崩盘、对簿公堂"] ``` 由于两人在未来十年内的成长速度、生活变故绝不可能完全步调一致，五五平分几乎注定会埋下怨恨的种子。Chris 提出了“不要过早，也不要过晚确立关系（Define The Relationship / DTR）”的实操框架： * **过早确定（如喝早午餐时拍脑袋）**：给未来业务变化和贡献不均埋下定时炸弹。 * **过晚确定（如运营两年已有稳定营收与用户）**：一旦业务大起或大落，利益分配极易撕破脸。 * **黄金折中方案（设定明确里程碑）**：双方先不要急于划分最终股权。由于双方各有全职工作、时间精力未知，可以先坦诚约定角色分工（例如一人懂销售有人脉、另一人懂工程做产品），并挂钩一个具体明确的量化指标——比如“达到 10,000 美元营收”或“获得指定数量付费用户”以验证产品市场契合度（PMF）。在日历上把达成该目标的复盘会提前圈定，等跑出初期成果后，再依据各自实际投入的资金、时间与商业价值展开股权谈判。这种延迟界定的机制能有效遏制“沉默的怨恨”。现实中经常出现极端不对称：一位拥有 30 年行业积淀的老将凭借一个关键电话就能撬动数千万美元的业务，而另一位 18 岁充满冲劲的年轻人则每周苦干 80 个小时负责全部日常落地。两人对于“经验与资源”对标“体力与时间”的价值认知往往截然不同，硬套 50/50 只会让双方都心生委屈。 --- ### [01:19:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4742s) Steven 的投资观察：成长速率脱节引发的崩盘结合自己投资 60 至 70 家企业的经历以及自身的创业历程，Steven 对合伙人均分股权给出了深刻的佐证。他观察到 50/50 能够成功跑通的罕见个案，通常具备极其特殊的条件：双方是相识多年的老友，彼此共同共事超过 5 年，且双方都已处于职业生涯的成熟后期；此时诸如结婚生子等人生重大变数早已尘埃落定，很少再有突如其来的外部变轨打乱两人的承诺。相反，Steven 举了一个极为典型的反面案例：两个非常年轻的合伙人曾一起共事，创业初期签署了五五平分的协议，尽管一开始两人的贡献就并非绝对均等。随着公司向前推进，两人的成长速度出现了天壤之别——其中一人迅速蜕变成为全方位挑大梁的“超级巨星”（Superstar），而另一人停滞不前。当这位顶梁柱回头重新审视那份五五开的合同时，积压已久的失衡终于爆发，直接向对方摊牌：“这不公平，这家公司要是没有我，价值立马归零。”这种因成长速度脱节而导致的股权崩解，在年轻创业团队中比比皆是。 ### [01:20:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4818s) 50/50 股权分配的风险与魅力在谈到公司股权结构时，Chris Koerner 和主持人 Steven 探讨了如果创始人退出日常运营，股权通常需要重新调整——尽管出于税务等原因这种调整往往非常棘手。谈及经典的五五分成（50/50），Chris 坦言，和相识已久的人或最好的朋友平分股权合伙创业，过程可能会极其痛快、甚至带来人生中最美妙的体验。然而，这种模式本质上是“高风险、高回报”：如果合伙人之间能配合默契，商业史上许多规模最大、运转最出色的企业恰恰来自这种相识已久的五五分账搭档；但另一方面，这类合作的失败率也远高于平均水平。随后，Steven 指着面前的三个手提箱开启了新的核心环节。每个箱子里装有不同数额的启动资金，他要求 Chris 针对给定的金额，逐一给出具体的创业构想与实操方案。 --- ### [01:21:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4870s) 用 500 美元创业：面向中小企业的 AI 落地服务 Steven 打开第一个手提箱，里面装有 500 美元现金。面对许多人“拿着区区 500 美元能干什么”的疑虑，Chris 指出，在当今这个充斥着 30 天免费试用、硅谷风投资本愿意倒贴让用户测试产品的时代，500 美元已经是一笔能发挥巨大效用的启动资金。他给出的头号推荐构想，是创办一家**帮助中小企业（SMB）落地与部署 AI 的服务公司**。 Chris 引用了一组悬殊的数据： - 全球约有 4 亿家中小企业； - 在受访的企业主中，**77%** 承认 AI 对其业务具有颠覆性改变的价值，深知 AI 势在必行且绝非一时炒作； - 实际上仅有 **5%** 的企业主声称自己在真正有意义地使用 AI。这种巨大的认知与执行鸿沟，形成了所谓的“商业认知失调”（Business cognitive dissonance）——企业主心里明白必须做，却迟迟没有行动。即使现在的工具已经进化到一句话 Prompt 就能生成网站或应用，企业主依然需要有人代劳。Chris 打了个生动的比方：“我知道怎么用吸尘器吸地板，我也知道怎么打扫屋子，但我还是宁愿花钱请人来干。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: AI落地服务商业模式闭环 accDescr: 展示如何用500美元启动资金，通过AI工具与本地广告为中小企业提供AI方案并获得稳定收入 subgraph Phase1["第一阶段：技能与资产准备（100 美元）"] A["投入约 100 美元"] --> B["学习 Vibe Coding 工具 （Replit / Lovable / Lindy 等）"] B --> C["快速搭建专业展示官网 （如 ChrisAutomations.com）"] end subgraph Phase2["第二阶段：获客与需求挖掘（400 美元）"] D["投放 400 美元 Meta 本地广告 （通俗语言表达，承诺降本增效）"] --> E["与中小企业主进行 Discovery Calls （深挖销售、排班、客服痛点）"] end subgraph Phase3["第三阶段：交付与变现模式"] F["针对具体场景构建原型 （如雨水槽清洗工的夜间 AI 语音代理）"] --> G["一次性部署收费： 500 美元至 5,000 美元"] G --> H["每月持续运维费： 收取初始费用的 20%（500-600 美元/月）"] H --> I["标准化模板横向复制给同类商家"] end Phase1 --> Phase2 Phase2 --> Phase3 ``` --- ### [01:22:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4964s) 什么是 Vibe Coding 与极简实操闭环针对不懂技术的普通人，Chris 详细解释了所谓的 **“Vibe Coding”（氛围编码 / 感觉编码）**：它指完全不懂代码的非技术人员，直接使用日常自然语言下达指令（例如：“帮我做一款管理训犬师客户的 App”）。虽然初次生成的产品可能还不完善，但只需再追加 10 到 20 次指令微调，就能得到一套可用的系统。Steven 作为 Lovable 和 Replit 的早期投资人补充道，任何人只要亲自尝试用自然语言输入一个创意，亲眼目睹它在眼前自动构建出来，都会经历一次思维边界被彻底打开的“尤里卡时刻”（Eureka moment）。过去需要耗费 5 年学习编程的壁垒，如今已被彻底夷平。 Chris 阐述了这 500 美元的具体花法与落地路径： 1. **花 100 美元学习并建站**：在 Replit、Lovable 或 Lindy 等平台上通过 ChatGPT 协助生成 Prompt 练手，并顺手搭好自己的业务展示网站（例如取名“Chris's Automations”）。 2. **用剩下的 400 美元投放本地广告**：在 Meta（Facebook）上锁定本地半径投放广告。文案必须使用极度直白的“小学五年级词汇”，坚决不提“LLM”甚至不提“ChatGPT”，直接承诺：“我是 Chris，我能用 AI 帮你的企业多赚钱或省钱。” 3. **电话诊断与痛点挖掘（Discovery Calls）**：与报名的本地老板沟通，连珠炮般询问其业务运作环节（招聘、薪酬、销售等，其中绝大部分痛点都在销售获客），并免费为他们针对性制作解决方案以树立专家形象。 --- ### [01:24:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5095s) 商业化定价与经典案例：雨水槽清洗工的 AI 语音接线员在收费模式上，Chris 提出了清晰的定价机制： - **前期实施费**：单次向企业主收取 **500 至 5,000 美元**的前期部署费用； - **后续运维费**：每月按前期费用的 **20%** 收取持续维护和排错费用。 Chris 举了一个极具画面感的本地服务案例：在内布拉斯加州奥马哈，有一位经营雨水槽清洗业务的老板。晚上 9 点半，老板正陪妻子看 Netflix，这时电话响了。他明知这可能是一单价值 3,000 美元的大业务，但累了一整天实在不想接，电话只能转入语音信箱，而潜在客户转头就打给了接电话的竞争对手。针对这种痛点，只需利用现成工具为他搭建一个“AI 语音代理”（AI Voice Agent）。Chris 会让老板亲自拨打测试电话，假装自己是急需清洗水槽的客户：“老板原本以为会有明显延迟，其实根本没有；他以为 AI 会很蠢，其实一点也不蠢；他以为 AI 需要掌握其公司的独门数据，其实 AI 早就通晓水槽清洗行业的所有标准流程。”体验过后，老板心悦诚服。你可以收取 3,000 美元部署费，外加每月 500 至 600 美元的维护费；更妙的是，你可以把这套完全跑通的代码和模型，打包复制给全城乃至全国的无数家水槽清洗公司。 --- ### [01:26:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5191s) 新技术带来的认知套利与实体替代方案：Drop Servicing Steven 对此深表赞同，指出这本质上是新技术普及时带来的**初期套利机会（Initial arbitrage）**。他回忆起自己 18、19 岁极度贫困时的一段真实经历：当时他在一家呼叫中心工作，任务就是翻着黄页电话簿给各种本地商家打电话推销 Facebook 广告。“我会打到建筑工地上找建筑公司的老板 Dave，在电话里给他解释什么是 Facebook 广告，然后帮他搭建广告、长期管理并向他输送销售线索（Leads）。”当时一间办公室里有 40 个人都在靠这种信息差谋生。Chris 补充道，这种由新技术驱动的红利期往往会持续很多年，而且哪怕今天重新干回当年给商家打电话卖 Facebook 广告的业务，依然能够盈利，因为市场的认知与需求永远存在层级差。当 Steven 追问如果不想做纯线上业务、用 500 美元做**实体业务**有什么构想时，Chris 提出了 **“Drop Servicing”（服务转包 / 代服务）** 的概念： - 类似于将中国供应商商品直发给海外买家、卖家无需持有库存的 Drop Shipping（一件代发）； - Drop Servicing 则是将这种无实物库存逻辑应用到本地家庭服务（Home service business）中； - 创业者无需亲自购买工具去修卷帘门或通管道，而是搭建一个看起来像本地实体企业的专业门面网站，本质上将其运营为一个“销售线索生成工厂”（Lead gen factory），通过广告捕获本地客户需求后，再转手对接给实际提供服务的维修团队赚取差价。 ### [01:28:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5322s) 什么是“服务套利”（Drop Servicing）与体验溢价 Chris Koerner 深入阐述了“服务套利”（Drop Servicing）的运作逻辑。与单次赚取 20 美元的线索中介不同，在服务套利模式下，你实际上承担了整个前端营销与客户体验工作，并将后端履约分包给当地专业的实体商家（例如车库门维修店或汽修厂）。本质上，你无需懂得任何维修技能，也从未亲自去过施工现场，却拥有了一家虚拟的服务公司。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 服务套利运作流程图 accDescr: 展示客户下单、营销方溢价收费、当地商家履约的闭环业务模式。 subgraph 前端营销与体验 A["在线广告与现代化网站"] --> B["终端客户下单支付 $80"] end subgraph 利润与履约 B --> C["线上运营者留存 $40 利润"] C --> D["分包给当地实体商家支付 $40 履约"] end ``` Steven 举了一个汽修例子来进行推演：建立一个现代化的汽车维修网站，通过 Facebook 广告引流；当用户在网站上下单付款后，你再联系没有网站的当地修车厂老板 Bob。Chris 对此确认并补充了具体的利润模型： - 传统修车厂（例如 Bob's Auto Repair）没有线上入口，一次换机油收费 40 美元。 - 你的网站设计现代、体验流畅，支持几下点击完成结账，定价 80 美元。 - 当客户 Mary 在你这里下单后，你直接打给 Bob：“祝贺你，我这里不仅是一个线索，而是一位已经付款的客户 Mary，开着一辆红杉（Sequoia）要换机油，我直接把 40 美元付给你。” - Mary 信任你的品牌并将钱付给你，你直接给 Bob 结算，赚取 40 美元的毛利——甚至比实际干活的 Bob 赚得还要多。 Chris 指出，客户多付的费用买单的是**更优秀的 UI、更好的用户体验与顺畅的结账流程**。除了像屋顶维修（Roofing）这类利润本身极高、普遍有预算做好网站的成熟行业外，大部分本地家庭生活服务（Home Services）普遍缺乏良好的数字化体验，这为服务套利留下了巨大的切入空间。 --- ### [01:30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5444s) 500 美元冷启动：免许可营销与目录网站（Directory Websites）针对 500 美元以内的轻资产创业方向，Chris 强烈推荐**目录网站（Directory Websites）**。类似 Travelocity 或 Yelp，目录网站通过聚合特定分类的信息列表，帮助用户快速找到答案。由于部分长尾细分领域分布极不均衡，Google Maps 的搜索结果并不理想，这就为垂直目录网站创造了流量入口（例如特定的制冰供应商目录）。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 目录网站免许可营销模型 accDescr: 展示抓取数据、SEO获取流量、最后向商家收取优先展示费的免许可闭环。 subgraph 第一阶段：零广告被动建站 A["用 Replit / Lovable 搭建模板架构"] --> B["抓取长尾细分数据并上线"] B --> C["依靠 SEO 自然搜索获取长尾流量"] end subgraph 第二阶段：商业变现 C --> D["接入 Google 广告网络获取展示收益"] C --> E["免许可营销：向带来订单的商家收取置顶费"] end ``` Chris 介绍了低成本规模化复制目录网站的操作路径与变现逻辑： - **搭建与复制成本极低**：利用 Replit 或 Lovable 等 AI 编程工具快速搭建好一套基础架构，随后针对不同城市和细分利基（例如“华盛顿州西雅图的所有狗狗公园”）抓取数据后直接复制套用，启动成本不足 100 美元。 - **无需付费投流**：完全依赖 SEO 和 Google 自然搜索算法慢慢起效，符合典型的 80/20 法则。虽然有些站点一分不赚，但部分站点每月可带来几百到数千美元的真正被动收入。 - **变现方式一：展示广告（Display Ads）**：直接接入 Google 广告联盟挂上 Banner 广告，无需主动销售，点击即可自动结算收益。 - **变现方式二：免许可营销（Permissionless Marketing）**：主动将商家收录进目录为他们免费带去客户。当从 Google Analytics 监测到明确的流量与转化后，再主动联系商家：“你最近增加的客户是我网站带去的，想不想每月/每年支付 300 美元获取置顶优先推荐位？”这种模式双方均无前期风险。 --- ### [01:33:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5612s) 实体自动售货机（Vending Machines）与自动取款机（ATM）实战对于想要尝试实体生意的创业者，Chris 拆解了用 500 美元启动自动售货机（Vending Machine）生意的详细操作： - **启动预算分配**：在 Facebook Marketplace 上花费 300 至 400 美元购买一台二手零食或饮料售货机（刷卡机读卡模块往往是机器中最昂贵的部分），再留 100 美元去 Costco 或 Sam's Club 采购第一批库存零食饮料。 - **点位入驻谈判**：寻找第一个愿意合作的实体商家（如汽修厂等候室），提出每月支付 100 美元固定租金或 30% 的营业额分成。拿下第一个点位后形成标杆案例，便能以此向其他店主推介：“Bob 的汽修厂因为放了这台机器，每个月能被动赚到 700 美元。” - **被动化运营与 ATM 对比**：补货和开拓新点位是售货机唯一的重体力活动，后期可通过雇人补货实现被动化；如果做 ATM 机业务，甚至可以直接将加钞与管理全盘外包给专业的现金管理公司。在规模与选品经验方面，Chris 分享了身边的真实案例： - Chris 自己曾因一条千万级播放量的 Instagram 爆款视频，顺势做起了进口并向创业者销售自动售货机的供应链业务。 - 他在圣地亚哥的一位朋友通过铺设零食和饮料售货机，实现了年入七位数（百万美元级）的营收。 - **选品真相**：即便在健康意识极强的圣地亚哥，该朋友测试的所有“健康零食”概念全部以失败告终，最终发现消费者真正买单的永远是多力多滋（Doritos）、可口可乐与零度可乐。 - **点位测试法则**：决定收益上限的核心是点位（例如公寓大堂通常远优于客流不足的修车厂）。在 100 台售货机中，通常只有 20 台能做到月入 3,000 美元，剩余 80 台大约月入 400 美元；跑通高产点位模型后，只需集中向同类场所进行复制开拓。 ### [01:36:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5808s) 节目赞助：Adobe Express 与 Ketone-IQ 在进入下一轮创业资本讨论之前，主持人 Steven Bartlett 穿插了两则品牌推荐。首先是 Adobe Express，Steven 表示身边有太多极具创意的头脑和行业顶尖人才，每个人都掌握着独特的成功秘诀，因此他在 Adobe Express 中打造了一份名为“One Better Guide”的指南，将各行业领军人物的核心原则拆解为简单易上手的实战方法，帮助受众像顶尖团队一样高效创作。随后，Steven 拿出了摆在面前的一款产品——外源酮补剂 Ketone-IQ。他感慨道，人的一生中总会偶尔遇到一两款真正彻底改变生活的“游戏颠覆者”（game changer），而他团队中约有 35% 到 40% 的成员都将 Ketone-IQ 视为此类产品。Steven 回忆起自己成为该公司联合创始人并促成节目赞助的奇妙缘分：某天上班时，他发现桌上莫名放着一盒 Ketone-IQ，团队成员 Lily 告诉他这家公司曾发来合作意向。他带着好奇上楼亲自尝试，随后的体验便彻底改变了他的日常状态——无论是专注力、精力水平还是整体工作效率都迎来了质的飞跃。目前该产品不仅在线上提供订阅优惠，还已进驻美国各大 Target 门店。 ### [01:38:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=5899s) 1,000 美元创业点子（一）：婚庆与活动道具租赁进阶挑战开始，Steven 拿出了一个装有更多现金的盒子——整整 1,000 美元，询问 Chris Koerner 会用这笔翻倍的资金启动什么业务。Chris 毫不犹豫地将目光投向了婚庆道具租赁（Wedding Rentals）。他指出，如今户外婚礼的普及率正在飙升，目前约有 75% 的婚礼选择在户外举行，且这一比例每年都在递增。户外场景的爆发直接催生了对各类一次性、定制化租赁道具的巨大市场需求。 Chris 分享了自己在 Reddit 上读到的一个真实案例：一位创业者在自家车库里利用廉价的 2x4 规格木料（lumber），仅花费两三百美元就亲手打造了一个婚礼木质拱门。在婚礼仪式上，新人站在拱门下宣誓“我愿意”，而这座简易拱门的单场租赁价格竟然高达 1,000 美元。Steven 随即追问关键渠道：“所以他是与活动策划人或婚礼策划师合作，不断将道具转租给他们吗？”Chris 给予了绝对肯定的回答：聪明的做法绝不是费时费力去寻找单个新娘，而是直接切入婚礼策划师（Wedding Planners）。因为策划师天然拥有极大的“接触面积”（surface area），每周都会经手多场婚礼。要锁定这些策划师极为简单：直接访问 The Knot、Zola、WeddingWire 等婚庆平台进行数据抓取，上面公开发布了策划师的电话、邮箱、姓名和公司信息。一名稳定的策划师伙伴，可能就意味着每周一单租金收益。在 1,000 美元的预算分配上，其实启动成本极低，甚至 500 美元就能起步： - **物料制作费**：花费约 300 美元采购木料和五金打造拱门。 - **数据抓取成本**：花费 100 美元高效抓取当地所有婚礼策划师的联系邮箱与电话。 - **运输与机动费用**：花费 100 美元油费，或者再花 100 美元从 Home Depot 临时租用皮卡和拖车（如果自己没有合适车辆）。 - **剩余流动资金**：手中仍结余约 400 美元，既可以用来吃一顿大餐庆祝，也能投放到 Facebook 广告上进一步扩大获客。除了婚礼拱门，Chris 还列举了其他极具吸金能力的衍生租赁品类：例如拍照背景墙（photo walls）、供宾客自选组装的精美熟食冷盘推车（charcuterie carts），以及现场定制披萨设备等。Steven 幽默地插话补充道：“婚礼和葬礼向来是一脉相承的生意”，甚至这些租赁逻辑在殡葬行业也完全行得通，而且随着人口老龄化，两者的市场需求都只增不减。 ### [01:41:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6069s) 1,000 美元创业点子（二）：本地电子邮件通讯（Newsletter）转向纯线上赛道，Chris 抛出了第二个 1,000 美元级别的轻资产创业模式——本地电子邮件通讯（Local Email Newsletter）。他打趣道：“虽然听起来又像是给 Facebook 打了一次大广告，但我保证绝非如此。”这套玩法的核心在于通过精准的本地社交广告积累私域订阅者，再向本地商家销售广告位变现。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 本地邮件通讯商业模型 accDescr: 展示如何用1000美元投放本地广告获取1000名订阅用户并通过本地赞助商实现双月回本的盈利闭环。 subgraph Acquire ["获客阶段（1,000 美元预算）"] A["Meta/Facebook 定向广告 （锁定本地城市如 Boise）"] --> B["获取 1,000 名本地订阅用户 （CPA 约 $0.50 - $1.00）"] end subgraph Retention ["内容运营（$0 软件试用）"] B --> C["每周发送本地动态通讯 （活动/折扣/新闻，真人撰写）"] end subgraph Monetize ["商业变现与回本"] C --> D["挖掘列表中的本地店主 （约 10% 订阅者为企业主）"] D --> E["销售专属广告位 （每次发送收费约 $500）"] E --> F["2 个月完全收回 $1,000 成本 （持续产生净现金流，异地复制）"] end ``` Chris 以爱达荷州的博伊西市（Boise, Idaho）为例：该市约有 20 万人口。创业者首先可以利用 Beehiiv 或 ConvertKit 等邮件通讯平台的免费试用期，在软件上花费 0 美元；随后将整整 1,000 美元全部交给 Meta（Facebook/Instagram 广告系统），设定特定地理半径定向投放广告，文案非常朴实直接：“想知道博伊西正在发生什么吗？每周一封邮件直达收件箱”。在正常情况下，单个订阅用户的获客成本（CPA）仅需 50 美分，即便按保守的 1 美元计算，1,000 美元预算也能直接为创作者带来 1,000 名精准的本地高黏性订户。Chris 强调自己在新墨西哥州实测过这套打法，完全行之有效。在内容创作上，Chris 强烈反对依赖 ChatGPT 生成内容。他指出，文章必须由创作者本人亲自用自然语言手写，哪怕文笔并不出众也无所谓：“因为内容必须带有真实的本地人呼吸感，让读者觉得这就是隔壁邻居写的，而不是出自冰冷的 AI 或做作的职业作家之手。”在内容中分享本地每周新鲜事、商家打折情报和社区新闻，迅速建立起信任。而在变现环节，订阅者群体本身就是最好的招商池。Chris 分析，成年人口中约有 10% 是企业经营者（如汽修厂老板、牙医诊所或餐厅店主），因此在 1,000 名订户中，天然潜伏着约 100 位潜在的企业主。在精心运营一个月后，只需在邮件底部刊登一条“虚位以待，投放广告请联系我”的招商告示，凭借极度垂直精准的本地受众，每次邮件群发可向广告主收取 500 美元（折合每位订户每月贡献约 50 美分价值）。这意味着：投入 1,000 美元获客，仅需运营两个月即可全额收回前期成本，随后便进入纯利润阶段。一旦在本地验证成功，这套标准化模板还可以无限平移复制到其他更大的城市。 ### [01:43:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6218s) 5,000 美元创业点子：投资小型房车营地（RV Park）与卖家融资随后，Steven 搬出了一个更大、更沉的公文包，里面装有 5,000 美元。随着资金门槛的提升，Chris 直言，如果把收入划分为从“主动收入”到“被动收入”的滑动标尺，资金量越接近 5,000 美元，真正意义上的被动收入就越具有现实可行性。在这档资金规模下，Chris 推荐了他本人深耕长达 7 年的隐形暴利赛道——小型房车营地（RV Park）。面对 Steven 对房车营地的困惑，Chris 详细拆解了该资产的形态与客群： 1. **长期居住型营地**：供住户在露营车或房车内长期居住数月乃至数年。主要租客群体分为三类：依靠固定退休金生活的老年人、蓝领工人，以及四处旅居的数字游民（digital nomads）。 2. **短期度假型营地**：通常紧邻大峡谷（Grand Canyon）等热门旅游风景区，游客通常只短住 1 到 4 晚。 Chris 直言自己完全无法理解为什么那么多人执着于投资单户住宅（Single Family Homes）出租。一个仅有 3 到 10 个停车位（pad sites）的小型房车营地，其购买成本与一栋普通单户住宅相当，但盈利能力却后者的 3 到 10 倍！更关键的是其风险极其分散：“如果单户住宅的租客在半夜破产跑路，你的现金流直接归零；而房车营地是将风险均摊在 5 到 10 个租户身上，具备无与伦比的灵活性与抗风险韧性。” 在仅有 5,000 美元本金、无法直接买下地产的严苛约束下，Chris 详细阐述了如何利用“卖家融资”（Seller Financing）来以小博大： - **免费地毯式搜寻**：完全不把预算浪费在找项目上，仅凭一部 iPhone、网络和 Google Maps，地毯式搜索距离自己车程 3 小时以内的所有小型房车营地并逐一打电话沟通。根据经验，每联系 100 家营地老板，就会有两到三家存在极具吸引力的谈判空间，足以锁定一笔同意卖家融资的优质交易。 - **尽职调查预算（约 2,000 美元）**：这笔钱绝对不能省，必须用于对营地水电设施进行专业检修，并购买产权保险（title policy），确保交易合规真实，核实声称是房东的人确实拥有该物业，杜绝产权欺诈陷阱。 - **营运准备金（约 3,000 美元）**：用于支付交割初期的营运开支，例如垫付首期电费、修剪园区树木、规整草坪与地面，确保营地在接手第一天就呈现出干净整洁的面貌。 ### [01:46:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6387s) 房车营地的商业逻辑与卖家融资套利克里斯·科纳（Chris Koerner）深入拆解了他是如何通过“卖家融资”（Seller Financing）接管并盘活房车营地（RV parks）与移动房屋营地（mobile home parks）的。在商业地产中，资产估值核心依赖资本化率（Cap Rate，即净利润除以售价）。假设以 10% 的资本化率购买一个标价 20 万美元的营地，意味着它每年能产生 2 万美元的稳定利润。这类低价营地通常存在极具潜力的价值洼地——原业主往往根本没有搭建官方网站，租金远低于市场行情，由于缺乏线上推广还伴有严重的空置问题。克里斯的改造打法非常精简而直接：利用 AI 提示词代码生成工具（Vibe Coding）快速免费搭建一个现代化展示网站，然后在 Facebook Marketplace 上持续发布免费租赁广告以拉升入住率。通过调整租金与填满空位，营地的年利润很快能从 2 万美元拉升到 3 万美元；此时若按市场成熟营地 8% 的资本化率重新估值，原本 20 万美元购入的营地身价便会跃升至 36 万至 37.5 万美元左右。投资者既可以选择转手套现，也可以继续持有并稳定享受被动现金流。面对史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）关于“卖家融资”运作机制的提问，克里斯解释道，这本质上是卖家充当了银行角色并承担本票（holding the note）。对于卖家而言，他们通常不希望拿到大笔现金后去冒险投资完全不懂的领域，而更乐意收取稳定的月度分期利息；即便买家经营失败违约，卖家不仅能全额没收已支付的全部款项，还能直接收回营地的完整产权。克里斯在这类项目上取得了显著收益： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 房车营地卖家融资与价值提升模型 accDescr: 展示从低价接盘到轻资产改造，再到资产增值套利的完整闭环。 subgraph Acquisition["低成本接盘"] A["锁定低效资产 20万美元 / 10%资本化率 年利2万美元"] --> B["卖家融资谈判 无需银行贷款 按月向原业主分期"] end subgraph Operation["轻资产改造"] B --> C["基础运营升级 AI 生成官网 + FB免费广告"] C --> D["入住率提升 & 租金回归市价 年利润提升至 3万美元"] end subgraph Exit["重估与变现"] D --> E["估值重塑（8%资本化率） 资产升值至约 36-37.5万美元"] E --> F["双重退出通道： 高溢价转手套现 OR 享受超额现金流"] end ``` - **运营战绩**：过去 7 年间克里斯深度参与了约 35 处房车与移动房屋营地的运营与投资。 - **财务回报**：该板块每年为他贡献 300 万至 400 万美元的营业收入，净利润达 40 万至 60 万美元。 - **行业红利**：契合了婴儿潮一代集中退休养老与千禧一代青睐自驾户外露营的复合宏观趋势。 --- ### [01:49:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6551s) 宏观红利：银发海啸与 AI 改造传统产业当史蒂芬询问在当下寻找副业与商业机会时应当紧扣哪些宏观趋势，克里斯毫不犹豫地指向了 AI 与人口结构的代际更替。他认为，当前创业者绝不能无视人工智能技术的爆发，而最具性价比和可行性的框架，就是“把最新的 AI 工具植入到陈旧的传统生意中”。与此同时，巨大的代际红利正在浮现：接下来的 5 到 10 年里，全美每天有多达 10,000 名婴儿潮一代达到退休年龄，这批传统中小型企业主急于退出历史舞台。这形成了两个明确的财富敞口：要么运用卖家融资协议低门槛接管这些缺乏数字化能力的实体老店，用利润分期还款；要么以顾问或技术合伙人角色，直接帮这些传统企业接入 AI 降本增效。克里斯补充坦言，在传统实体企业中谈成卖家融资确实比在不动产领域更具挑战，但只要找准痛点，逻辑完全走得通。 --- ### [01:50:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6609s) 最赚钱的生意与运营商哲学：别用无意义的股权画饼在探讨自己做过的 80 多个项目中“哪一个最赚钱且最轻松”时，克里斯点名了房车营地投资以及专营德州特色零食的 Buc-ee's 代购电商。他强调，这两个生意之所以显得“轻松”，并不是因为电商或房地产行业本身门槛低——恰恰相反，这两个领域竞争极其残酷——而是因为他在心智成熟后学会了寻找顶尖的“操盘运营官”（Operators）来全权负责日常琐事，使自己能够几乎零时间投入地抽身出来，避免因自己三分钟热度而导致项目夭折。在筛选与激励优秀运营伙伴上，克里斯分享了刻骨铭心的实战教训： 1. **信任高于一切**：他发现真正能打胜仗的操盘手，几乎全都出自他私下深度了解、建立起极高信任度的人际圈子。 2. **拒绝“股权画饼”**：克里斯直言自己在 20 多岁时犯过严重错误，总喜欢拿公司股权当诱饵去拉拢合伙人；然而现实是绝大多数初创公司的股权最后都会归零，一文不值。 3. **拥抱净利润季度分红**：步入 30 岁后，他彻底从“股权崇拜”转向了“现金流主义”。他不再随意稀释无意义的股权，而是把运营伙伴直接绑定在真实的经营净利润上，按季度进行真金白银的分红激励，让对方切实体会到作为合伙人分享利润成果的确定性。 --- ### [01:52:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6733s) 麦当劳吸管与海钓启示录：商业实验的表面积谈到是否有过“后悔没早点开始”的副业点子时，克里斯笑着表示只要一个念头在脑海里挥之不去超过两周，他就会直接动手做测试。极低的启动试错成本让他从不害怕失败，失败了就权当花小钱买个明确答案，免得整夜失眠猜疑“万一成了呢”。为了阐释这种敏捷迭代与高频测试的思维，克里斯向史蒂芬讲述了一段生动的深海海钓经历。一次出海钓鱼时，整船人换了各种昂贵的拟饵却毫无鱼讯。这时老船长弯腰从座位底下掏出一把平时收集的麦当劳塑料吸管（因其带有醒目的红黄相间条纹），用剪刀将吸管剪成四截，拆下鱼钩，把钓线穿过吸管碎截后再重新系上鱼钩。这套怪异的组合抛入水中后，奇迹发生了——鱼线飞快转动，塑料吸管在水流中旋转闪烁如同挣扎的幼鱼，鱼群开始疯狂咬钩。当克里斯震惊地询问船长怎么想到这种偏方时，船长幽默地笑答：“天晓得，也许是哪次喝高了瞎试出来的。” ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 商业深海捕鱼逻辑模型 accDescr: 展现从低效单点尝试到多元敏捷测试、最终捕捉大机会的过程。 subgraph Conventional["传统单一路径"] X1["单一鱼饵 / 缺乏变量"] --> X2["抛竿两次无果"] --> X3["心灰意冷放弃 认定自己不适合创业"] end subgraph Exploratory["增加商业表面积"] Y1["变换水深 / 气味诱饵 / 改造吸管"] --> Y2["捕捉微弱微信号 出现咬钩迹象"] Y2 --> Y3["顺应信号百倍放大 持续高频抛竿测试"] --> Y4["猎获石斑鱼、鲷鱼乃至鲨鱼 构建丰富立体的多元商业版图"] end ``` 克里斯将商业世界比作蕴藏着数以亿计鱼类的无垠深海。大多数人划着小船出海，用死板的诱饵随手抛了两竿没有动静，就灰心丧气地打道回府，抱怨“创业不靠谱，我还是老老实实回去朝九晚五吧”。但真正的商业高手会不断扩大自己的“尝试表面积”（Surface Area）： - 调整不同的水深层次与下潜速率； - 喷洒不同气味的诱引剂； - 甚至挂上一截看似荒谬的麦当劳吸管。哪怕整整一个小时只来了一次极轻微的触动，那也是市场给出的宝贵“验证信号”（Signal）。顺着微弱的信号再次抛竿数十次、上百次，小鱼、大鱼、石斑鱼乃至鲨鱼终会被拉上甲板。克里斯总结道，商业的魅力正是在于不执拗于单一路径，持续充满乐趣地在市场上抛竿探测试验，最终才能收获丰盛且富有生机的生活。 ### [01:55:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6911s) 避开“光鲜项目”，寻找属于自己的“不对称优势” 许多创业新手往往一心想要打造下一个 Facebook、ChatGPT 或是某种颠覆性的 AI 应用，这种一味追逐“性感”（sexy）概念的心态其实是一个巨大陷阱。由于人人都想涉足光鲜耀眼的领域，导致这些赛道拥挤不堪且竞争极度残酷；反而是那些看起来乏味、毫不起眼（unsexy）的领域，因为无人问津，反而孕育着绝佳的商业机会。在谈到自己如今筛选新业务的标准时，Chris Koerner 直言，他只会启动那些自己拥有“不对称优势”（unfair advantage）的项目。这种优势并不专属于富人、精英或博士学者，即使是一个 13 岁的孩子，也可能因为比任何人都更懂 Roblox 游戏而具备独一无二的优势。现在的 Chris 拥有庞大的内容受众、深厚的业内人脉与独特的行业认知，哪怕他的点子清单密密麻麻长达数页，他也只会挑选那些自己真正拥有“获胜权利”（a right to win）的方向下手。 --- ### [01:56:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=6995s) 警惕商业中的“海市蜃楼机会” Steven Bartlett 提出了一个极具警示意义的概念——“海市蜃楼机会”（mirage opportunity）。这指的是某些行业表面上看起来痛点极其明显、市场巨大，且似乎所有人都理应需要它，但现实中前赴后继的创业者却无一例外惨遭折戟。之所以出现这种现象，往往是因为创业者从一开始就误判了底层的人类行为逻辑，或者没有看透现有替代方案背后的深层原因。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 海市蜃楼机会的陷阱逻辑 accDescr: 描述表面痛点看似清晰但因底层人性与市场规律导致必然失败的死循环。 subgraph Surface["表面诱人推导"] A["表面痛点清晰 （如：人们更孤独/密码太麻烦）"] --> B["看似万亿级市场 （竞品体验都很差）"] B --> C["前赴后继涌入创业"] end subgraph Reality["底层残酷现实"] D{"无法逾越的死穴"} D --> E["真实决策依赖熟人圈而非工具"] D --> F["目标客户群体具有极高流失率"] D --> G["遗留系统复杂度与安全壁垒极高"] end C --> D D --> H["大量创业项目集体阵亡"] ``` 随后，两人列举了一系列典型的“海市蜃楼机会”： - **社群聚合 App**：许多人看到现代人前所未有地感到孤独，认为 WhatsApp 功能有限、Facebook 群组对 Z 世代失效，便试图为跑友俱乐部、琴友会或创业组织打造专用的全功能群组 App。然而，几乎所有此类 App 最终都无法维持用户留存与活跃。 - **颠覆密码管理或银行 UI**：像美国银行（Bank of America）或亚马逊那样看起来陈旧糟糕的界面，往往背后有其深层的安全、兼容性与转化率考量；试图彻底取代密码的创业公司倒下了一批又一批。 - **大学校园活动公告 App**：几乎每所大学都会有雄心勃勃的学生想做一款“校园实时活动指南”。这类应用一方面每年要自动流失 33% 的老用户，并重新获取 33% 的新生；另一方面，大学生去哪里玩从不看公告板，而是看室友去哪、以及自己暗恋的女孩去哪。 - **面向播客主的工具与服务**：为刚起步的播客主提供剪辑、分发或增长工具看似市场庞大，但统计数据显示高达 95% 的播客会在 6 个月内彻底停更，向一个注定会放弃的破损市场销售软件极难生存；而剩下的 5% 头部玩家中，真正有丰厚利润能采购昂贵工具的更是屈指可数。在认清海市蜃楼的危害之后，Steven 感叹道，这种直觉上最吸引人的巨大空白往往最致命。Chris 则再次重申：“归根结底，最聪明的做法依然是直接复制那些已经得到验证、切实有效的生意。” --- ### [02:00:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7233s) 戳破“创业带来绝对自由”的神话在大众互联网叙事中，“做自己的老板”、“摆脱朝九晚五”和“获得绝对自由”被包装成了最理想的终极追求。然而 Chris 与 Steven 一致认为，现实往往恰恰相反——在创业的头几年乃至几十年里，它甚至比一份全职工作更像一座囚牢。许多年轻人只是痴迷于“企业家”这个光鲜的标签，却根本没有做好承受每日无休止琐碎折磨的心理准备。当一个人创办企业后，他绝非毫无束缚的自由人，相反，他需要负责的对象呈指数级暴增：成百上千名员工的生计、挑剔的投资人、供应链上下游的供应商以及衣食父母般的客户。Steven 直言，即便是做顶流播客，自己也必须被每周一、周四固定的更新节奏紧紧锁死，无法随心所欲地去夏威夷躺平一个月。有时候，像上班族一样有人清晰地指引方向、告知今天需要做什么，反而是一种被严重低估的幸福感与解脱。 Steven 指出，整个社会正在兜售一种虚妄的独立与自由，但人生的真正满足感恰恰来自于深度的连接与沉甸甸的责任——比如 Chris 拥有四个孩子、家庭与员工，这些互相依附的羁绊才是幸福的源头。Chris 用自己本年度最爱的一句格言总结道：“这世上根本没有完美的解决方案，只有权衡取舍（There are no solutions, only trade-offs）。”创业从来不是解决人生困境的灵丹妙药，你只是用一种限制换取了另一种代价。 ### [02:03:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7393s) 创业的代价：不确定性与心理负荷在探讨创业的本质时，克里斯·柯纳（Chris Koerner）坦言，创业最核心的权衡就在于“放弃了稳定与可预测性”。他的人生一直处于剧烈的波动和不可预测之中，虽然随着经验的积累，许多事情正在以一种积极的方式变得更有章法，但那种长期承受的精神负荷从未彻底消失——你永远不知道下一笔收入从何而来，甚至不知道它到底会不会来。史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）感叹这种生活“绝非适合心理脆弱的人”。克里斯对此深表赞同，普通全职工作所带来的按时领薪与安稳感，是创业者在起步阶段必须拱手让出的代价。是否值得做出这种交换，只有亲自下场尝试过的人才能得出属于自己的答案。 --- ### [02:03:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7426s) 闭幕传统提问：重新审视自己的故事节目迎来了标志性的闭幕提问环节。上一位做客的嘉宾在不知下一位受访者身份的情况下留出了一个问题：“在今天与史蒂芬的对话中，有哪一件事是他做了且让你发自内心感激的？” 克里斯思考后表示，史蒂芬的提问视角打破了他过往审视自我经历的固有惯性。在此之前，克里斯总是用习惯的一套逻辑来看待自己的创业历程，但史蒂芬引导他从全新的角度回看过去，这让他对自己的人生轨迹产生了更深的认知。尤其是整场对话反复探讨的一个核心框架——“创业绝非适合所有人”，人们必须清楚衡量那些代价是否值得自己去背负。 --- ### [02:05:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7502s) “非理性”的内在驱动与“宏大妄想”的鉴定报告谈及创业者之所以愿意承担看似不对等的风险，史蒂芬指出，这往往并非纯粹理性的商业选择，而是源于个体的创伤、成长经历、童年遭遇、不安全感乃至某种“有毒的燃料”。这些深层因素让某些人变得“不可理喻”且极其不切实际，愿意孤注一掷。此外，生理上的大脑构造也有巨大影响，史蒂芬与克里斯都有某种程度的注意力缺陷多动障碍（ADHD），大脑的连线机制让他们很难像常人一样安稳地做一份朝九晚五的工作。“这看似是一种选择，但对我而言，这往往感觉并不是在做选择——因为我们别无选择。” 克里斯随即分享了一段深藏已久的大学往事：2009 年本科就读期间，他曾去医院做过 ADHD 测试。在那份长达八页的精神科评估报告中，心理医生写下了一句让他记忆犹新的评语——称他怀有“宏大妄想”（delusions of grandeur），认为他对未来的生活有着极其不切实际的期望，并指出这种心态正在给他的个人人际关系带来冲突与摩擦。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 质疑转化为动力的心理循环 accDescr: 展示心理医生给出的宏大妄想评价如何被转化为前进燃料的流程 subgraph External["外界评价"] A["2009年精神科测评报告 评语：存在'宏大妄想'与不切实际的期望"] end subgraph Reframing["认知重塑"] B["质疑定义： 只有经时间检验失败了，才叫妄想"] C["重定义为： '宏大规划' (Plans of Grandeur)"] end subgraph Action["长效行动驱动"] D["打印报告放在办公桌抽屉 时刻用荧光笔标记提醒自己"] E["转化为持续创业的动力燃料"] end A --> B B --> C C --> D D --> E ``` 当时这行字深深刺痛了他，他在心中反驳：“你凭什么认定那是妄想？只有当漫长的时间过去、事实证明你彻底搞砸且错得离谱时，那才叫妄想；而在此之前，我这叫‘宏大的规划’（plans of grandeur）。”克里斯将这份 2009 年的报告打印出来，用荧光笔做满标记，至今仍保存在办公室的抽屉里。每当感到困惑或疲惫时，他就会拿出来翻看，把它当成激发斗志的精神图腾。 --- ### [02:07:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7649s) 商业内容与全网千万播放的爆款视频史蒂芬向观众介绍了获取克里斯内容的渠道，强调他的内容不同于一般的聊天播客，而是针对具体商业实操的极度聚焦的落地指南。克里斯介绍了自己的主阵地： - **官方网站与播客**：`tkopod.com`（The Koerner Office Podcast），聚合了所有商业案例拆解与播客内容。 - **每周电子通讯（Newsletter）**：每周发送一封深度邮件，完全基于订阅受众的提问与投票展开，深入拆解某一特定生意的从 0 到 1 实操步骤。 - **用户咨询最多的业务方向**：目前关注度最高的是“AI 工具落地服务机构”（AI Implementation Agency），许多人渴望了解如何为传统企业接入自动化 AI 工作流。谈及全网传播度最高的爆款视频，克里斯回忆起一条播放量突破三四千万次的短视频。视频中记录了一位中国街头售卖炒冰淇淋的摊贩，摊主使用一台带冷冻滚筒的小型机械设备，将奶浆淋在冰冻圆柱体上，随后用铲子刮出造型极其吸睛的冰淇淋卷。克里斯在 30 秒内用极简的商业逻辑完成了拆解：“这台机器只要 200 美元，把它摆在客流密集的人气街角，一天下来就能赚到 1,000 美元现金流水。”这种极其清晰的“A-B-C 路径”引发了海量年轻人的共鸣与模仿欲望。 --- ### [02:09:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7754s) 结语：在丰裕与 AI 时代重新定义成功史蒂芬在节目收尾时向克里斯表达了由衷的敬意。他指出，克里斯证明了“条条大路通罗马”，通往成功、富足和幸福绝非只有按部就班的一条路径。克里斯反叛传统商业说教、依托自身独特大脑特质走出财务自由的经历，对许多人而言是一种巨大的精神解脱。同时，史蒂芬赞扬了克里斯背后的巨大牺牲——作为一个育有四个孩子的年轻父亲，承担创业的不确定性需要极其坚毅的担当。克里斯将副业与商业探索“去神秘化”，让复杂艰涩的概念变得触手可及。史蒂芬总结道，在 AI 浪潮奔涌以及埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）所勾勒的“极度丰裕时代”到来之际，拥有个人自主选项和商业直觉将变得前所未有地重要，甚至未来每个人都有可能成为自己的创业者。 --- ### [02:10:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7824s) 节目花絮：DOAC Circle 内部社群邀请在节目最末尾，史蒂芬向听众发布了一则独家邀请，推出名为“DOAC Circle”的全新私密社群（doaccircle.com），首批仅对 10,000 名用户开放： - 内部成员可获取史蒂芬录制节目时使用的 iPad 提纲简报与幕后花絮。 - 解锁从未公开发布过的采访片段与未播出的神秘单集。 - 参与节目的共创策划，直接向团队提出希望受访的重磅嘉宾名单与核心讨论话题。 ## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=0s) Ignore passion. Follow the profit until you can afford to follow your passion. — Chris Koerner > [07:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=467s) The pain of your problem needs to be greater than how much you care about what people think about you. — Chris Koerner > [10:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=604s) 太棒了！终于有人替我冲上了前线战场，替我验证了这个需求是真实存在的！ — Chris Koerner > [20:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1211s) 除了毒品，什么都可以拿来测试。 — Chris Koerner > [27:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=1674s) 每个专家都是从初学者起步的 — Chris Koerner > [35:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2157s) 我现在兴奋极了，我必须全力以赴让它成功 — Chris Koerner > [41:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=2515s) 追随利润（Profit），直到你有能力去追随热情。 — Chris Koerner > [52:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3122s) 专注往往被过分高估，而势头（Momentum）却被严重低估。 — Chris Koerner > [01:02:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3724s) 为了聚焦在眼前最重要的事情上，你今天究竟对哪些事情说了‘不’？ — Steve Jobs（由 Jony Ive 转述） > [01:02:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=3779s) 在其他条件完全相同的情况下，更专注的人确实更有可能成为亿万富翁（Billionaire）。 — Chris Koerner > [01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=4200s) 每一个‘不（No）’，都意味着你距离下一个‘好（Yes）’更近了一步。 — Chris Koerner > [02:00:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7233s) 这世上根本没有完美的解决方案，只有权衡取舍（There are no solutions, only trade-offs）。 — Chris Koerner > [02:05:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig&t=7502s) 你凭什么认定那是妄想？只有当漫长的时间过去、事实证明你彻底搞砸且错得离谱时，那才叫妄想；而在此之前，我这叫‘宏大的规划’（plans of grandeur）。 — Chris Koerner ## Mentioned Steven Bartlett, Chris Koerner, Buc-ee's, Meta, Facebook, Facebook Marketplace, Instagram, WhatsApp, Craigslist, Wayback Machine, Similarweb, Walmart, Apple, iPhone, Samsung, Alibaba, Y Combinator, Trader Joe's, Monday.com, ChatGPT, Nano Banana, LinkedIn, Kevin O'Leary, Walter Isaacson, Steve Jobs, Jony Ive, Mark Zuckerberg, Jensen Huang, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Replit, Lovable, Lindy, The Knot, Zola, WeddingWire, Home Depot, Beehiiv, ConvertKit, Adobe Express, Ketone-IQ, Target, Costco, Sam's Club, Google Maps, Google Analytics, Yelp, Travelocity, Roblox, The Koerner Office Podcast, DOAC Circle ## Video description Serial entrepreneur CHRIS KOERNER reveals how he built 80+ businesses from scratch, turned side hustles into millions, and why ONLY $500 is all you need. Chris Koerner is a self-made entrepreneur and content creator, known as the “King Of Side Hustles”. With over 1 million followers, he now teaches people how to build and scale a business and he is host of the ‘The Koerner Office Podcast’. He explains: ◼️The brutal truth about passive income (and what to build instead) ◼️How to turn $1,000 into $10,000 fast, with a step-by-step formula ◼️The #1 habit silently keeping you poor without you realising it ◼️How to use AI tools to launch and scale instantly ◼️The simple framework for testing any business idea with $0 00:00 Who Are You and What Do You Do? 02:36 What Businesses Have You Started? 05:33 Is This the Best Time to Start a Business? 08:52 Copying Businesses 12:53 Experimentation and Testing 20:11 Your Experience With Buc-ee's 23:00 Is Entrepreneurship for Everyone? 30:24 Should We Have Plan Bs? 36:14 Passive Income 39:10 How Important Is Passion? 41:55 How to Know If You Should Pursue an Idea 47:10 How to Validate Your Ideas 48:49 How to Test a Product 52:02 How Important Is It to Learn Facebook Ads? 57:11 Ads 58:51 The Different Types of Entrepreneurs 59:54 How Important Is Focus? 01:02:04 Did You Feel Guilty for Trying to Build Businesses? 01:07:04 Rejection and Failure 01:09:59 Team Building and Business Partners 01:12:30 Equity Split in a Business 01:15:13 What Would You Do With $500 for a Business? 01:20:57 Drop Servicing 01:27:53 Making Money From Vending Machines 01:36:16 Ads 01:38:19 What Business Would You Do With $1,000? 01:41:09 Online Business With $1,000 01:43:38 What Would You Do With $5,000? 01:49:11 Don’t Ignore This When Starting A Business 01:50:09 Which Has Been Your Most Profitable Business? 01:52:13 Keep Trying and Experimenting 01:55:36 Any New Business Ideas You’re Trying? 01:56:34 Business That You Should Stay Away From 02:00:33 Should You Really Become an Entrepreneur? 02:03:43 What’s One Thing Steven Did That You Appreciated? 02:08:17 What’s the Most Popular Question You Get? Follow Chris: Instagram - https://bit.ly/4oFom0i YouTube - https://bit.ly/3XBUI16 X - https://bit.ly/3Mc0UdJ The Diary Of A CEO: ◼️Get the 2026 Goal Setting Guide - https://bit.ly/ytgoalsettingguide ◼️Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼️Buy The Diary Of A CEO book here - https://smarturl.it/DOACbook ◼️The 1% Diary is back - limited time only: https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt ◼️The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards (Second Edition): https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb ◼️Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt ◼️Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: Wispr: https://wisprflow.ai/DOAC LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/DIARY Adobe: https://Adobe.Ly/OneBetter Ketone-IQ: https://ketone.com/STEVEN for 30% off your subscription order [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QLWlcneJig)

Source quotes

[0:00] Chris Koerner: Ignore passion. Follow the profit until you can afford to follow your passion. [7:47] Chris Koerner: The pain of your problem needs to be greater than how much you care about what people think about you. [10:04] Chris Koerner: 太棒了！终于有人替我冲上了前线战场，替我验证了这个需求是真实存在的！ [20:11] Chris Koerner: 除了毒品，什么都可以拿来测试。 [27:54] Chris Koerner: 每个专家都是从初学者起步的 [35:57] Chris Koerner: 我现在兴奋极了，我必须全力以赴让它成功 [41:55] Chris Koerner: 追随利润（Profit），直到你有能力去追随热情。 [52:02] Chris Koerner: 专注往往被过分高估，而势头（Momentum）却被严重低估。 [62:04] Steve Jobs（由 Jony Ive 转述）: 为了聚焦在眼前最重要的事情上，你今天究竟对哪些事情说了‘不’？ [62:59] Chris Koerner: 在其他条件完全相同的情况下，更专注的人确实更有可能成为亿万富翁（Billionaire）。 [70:00] Chris Koerner: 每一个‘不（No）’，都意味着你距离下一个‘好（Yes）’更近了一步。 [120:33] Chris Koerner: 这世上根本没有完美的解决方案，只有权衡取舍（There are no solutions, only trade-offs）。 [125:02] Chris Koerner: 你凭什么认定那是妄想？只有当漫长的时间过去、事实证明你彻底搞砸且错得离谱时，那才叫妄想；而在此之前，我这叫‘宏大的规划’（plans of grandeur）。

Source quotes

[0:00] Chris Koerner: I lived across the street from a golf course and these golf balls would fly in my yard... I'd dig through the ditches and I'd pull out all these golf balls... That was my first business. [0:00] Chris Koerner: The pain of your problem needs to be greater than how much you care about what people think about you. [0:00] Chris Koerner: Follow the profit until you can afford to follow your passion. [5:33] Chris Koerner: When I do that and I see it exists, I'm like, 'Yes, this is it. Someone went to the front lines of the battlefield and validated this for me.' [27:09] Chris Koerner: People need to take their curious ideas very seriously. They need to shorten the amount of time spent between having the idea and doing something about that idea, because that will strengthen their bias for action muscle. [47:10] Steven Bartlett: If I can come out of that valley, if something pulls me up out of that valley, then I think it's worth pursuing. [52:02] Chris Koerner: Focus is overrated and momentum is underrated... My first step is going to be something very low friction because I want you to get something back from the world. [62:05] Chris Koerner: If my life with hyper-focused Chris looks like billion-dollar exits, reporting to a board, sitting in meetings all day... that's miserable Chris. Why am I making Chris miserable so my fourth-great-grandkids can be rich instead of just my second-great-grandkids? [70:00] Chris Koerner: I got rejected tens of thousands of times over the course of two years... that rewired my brain to just realize that every 'no' is closer to a 'yes.' [72:30] Chris Koerner: When we get married, we'll spend years talking about our potential plans... But when we choose a business partner, we go get avocado toast together and we're like, '50-50, cool, sounds good. Let's do this.'... Business partnerships are significantly harder than marriages even, but we put 99% less thought into the structure. [80:54] Chris Koerner: Vibe coding is the non-technical person, the non-coder such as myself using their natural language to just say, 'Hey, build me an app that manages customers for dog trainers.' [98:19] Chris Koerner: He doesn't go through the brides. He goes through the wedding planners because surface area—they're touching all kinds of weddings on a regular basis. [110:09] Chris Koerner: most equity goes to zero, period. [120:33] Chris Koerner: There are no solutions, only trade-offs.

Original transcript

[0:00] A lot of people are looking for passive [0:02] income from side hustles. Yeah, it's the [0:04] financial ompic and it's more accessible [0:06] than ever. Like 90% of the ideas I talk [0:08] about can be launched with $500 or less. [0:10] And there's [music] enough time in the [0:12] day to do these on the nights and [0:13] weekends. So in these three suitcases in [0:15] front of me, I have three different [0:16] amounts of money. And during this [0:18] conversation, I'm going to pass you a [0:19] box at random. And your job is to tell [0:21] me what kind of business you would start [0:23] with that amount of money. Sounds good. [0:24] Let's do this. Known as the king of side [0:26] hustles, Chris Kerner has launched over [0:28] 80 businesses, earning millions in the [0:31] process. [music] [0:32] And now, the serial entrepreneur is [0:34] going to teach us how to adopt a [0:35] business mindset [0:36] >> and launch simple, overlooked, but [0:38] profitable ventures with little money. [0:40] >> Many of us struggle financially and they [0:42] see a side hustle as a solution to that. [0:44] Like for me, growing up kind of poor, [0:45] business allowed me to take hold of my [0:47] life and make it what I wanted it to be. [0:48] And it started when I was 9 years old [0:50] and wanting a Red Schwin bicycle. My [0:52] friends had a bicycle. My neighbors had [0:53] a bicycle and my parents didn't have [0:55] money for it. But I lived across the [0:56] street from a golf course and these golf [0:57] balls would fly in my yard and I would [0:59] go to my neighbor's yard and go across [1:00] the street, dig through the ditches and [1:01] I'd pull out all these golf balls and I [1:03] started selling them. That was my first [1:04] business. That taught me that business [1:06] is approachable and we all have ideas, [1:08] but we usually don't do anything about [1:10] it. Why? I think number one, they're [1:11] afraid of what people think. Number two [1:13] is they don't have the tools or they're [1:14] not connecting the tools with the ideas. [1:16] If we can get over those, the world is [1:18] our oyster at that point. I have $1,000. [1:21] What side hustle would you start? [1:22] >> The first thing that comes to mind is my [1:24] favorite business idea of all right now. [1:25] This is a zero employee business. It's [1:27] highly profitable and that would be so [1:30] how important is it for you to love the [1:31] thing to be successful at it? Ignore [1:33] passion. [music] [1:34] Follow the profit until you can afford [1:36] to follow your passion. Do they need a [1:38] business partner? No. If you look at the [1:39] stats on business failure rates with [1:41] companies that have co-founders, it's [1:43] significantly higher than companies that [1:45] have solo founders. And how does someone [1:46] validate a business idea? If I had to [1:48] pick one tool, it's one that one in four [1:50] humans use every day. [1:53] That's everything you need right there. [1:58] I see messages all the time in the [2:00] comments section that some of you didn't [2:01] realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you [2:03] could do me a favor and double check if [2:05] you're a subscriber to this channel, [2:06] that would be tremendously appreciated. [2:07] It's the simple, it's the free thing [2:09] that anybody that watches this show [2:11] frequently can do to help us here to [2:12] keep everything going in this show in [2:14] the trajectory it's on. So, please do [2:16] double check if you've subscribed and uh [2:18] thank you so much because in a strange [2:19] way you are you're part of our history [2:22] and you're on this journey with us and I [2:23] appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank [2:25] you. [music] [2:31] [music] [2:33] Chris, [2:34] >> who are you and what is the mission that [2:37] you're [clears throat] on? [2:39] >> I am a father. I am a husband and I'm a [2:43] serial entrepreneur and I love talking [2:46] about business and starting businesses [2:48] and inspiring other people to do the [2:50] same. [2:51] >> Why business has given me everything. [2:54] Um, growing up kind of poor, it was my [2:57] outlet. It was my way of just kind of [2:59] taking hold of my life and making it [3:01] what I wanted it to be. And I have [3:04] immense gratitude for that. Um, and I [3:06] love I just love talking about it. I [3:09] it's the only thing I know you I can't [3:11] talk to you about history or nutrition [3:12] or anything, but when it comes to [3:14] business, I just love it and I want [3:15] other people to love it as well. How [3:18] have you made your name in the world of [3:20] business? Because I've heard your name a [3:21] lot recently. People call you the king [3:23] of side hustles. [3:25] Where has this come from? I think I just [3:28] published my life on the internet now. [3:30] Um, I I'm always testing and launching [3:33] and starting businesses, but only over [3:36] the last couple years have I started [3:37] publishing that. And [3:40] I didn't try to be like the king of side [3:42] hustles. That's not something that I've [3:43] ever like intentionally tried to brand [3:45] myself as, but I think people see what I [3:47] do as a side hustle and they call it [3:50] that. But I think that anything is [3:52] scalable. Any side hustle could could be [3:54] a multi-million dollar business. Um, I [3:56] mean, we we live on a planet with eight [3:58] billion people and we're all connected [3:59] and anything can be scaled. [4:01] >> And you make a lot of content now, so [4:02] you've probably had a bit of a feedback [4:05] loop in terms of understanding what it [4:08] is that you say and do and create that's [4:10] resonant with people and also why it's [4:12] resonant like what is the crux of what [4:14] people like my audiences are are looking [4:16] for. As humans, we all want a silver [4:20] bullet. We want a solution to our [4:22] problems and many of us struggle [4:25] financially um and they see a side [4:27] hustle as as an outlet to that or as a [4:30] solution to that. I think everyone has [4:32] ideas. um most people are very hesitant [4:36] to execute on those ideas. And so when [4:39] they see someone like me freely [4:40] executing on all the ideas, it hopefully [4:44] it opens their mind and helps them look [4:46] at their ideas in a different way or a [4:48] more approachable way and maybe gives [4:51] them confidence to do the same. In the [4:53] boxes in front of me here, I have three [4:55] different amounts of money. $500, I [4:58] think I have $1,000, and $5,000. And [5:01] during this conversation, I'm going to [5:03] pass you a box at random. And your job [5:05] is to tell me what kind of business you [5:07] would start with that amount of money [5:08] because I know my audience, you know, [5:10] they're many of them are interested in [5:11] starting their own business one day. And [5:13] I use specifically sort of low amounts [5:15] of money just to make it as accessible [5:17] to them as possible. So, we will do that [5:18] at some point. I'll pass you the boxes. [5:20] You give me three business ideas. You'll [5:21] start with $500, $1,000, and $5,000. Um, [5:25] but I want to get a view on on you and [5:28] the businesses that you've started and [5:30] the sort of the variety of success [5:31] you've had. So, can you give me an [5:32] overview? [5:33] >> Yeah. So, I was 9 years old living in [5:36] Utah and I lived across the street from [5:38] a golf course and these golf balls would [5:40] fly in my yard and I don't know what [5:42] gave me the idea, but I started selling [5:45] them. Um, I just wanted money for a [5:46] bike. I wanted this Schwin bicycle and [5:49] it was red and my friends had a bicycle, [5:51] my neighbors had a bicycle and my [5:52] parents didn't have money for it. And so [5:54] for whatever reason, I connected that [5:55] white golf ball in my grass with money. [5:58] And I would go to my neighbor's yards, [6:01] I'd go across the street, I'd dig [6:02] through the ditches, and I'd pull out [6:03] all these golf balls. I'd wash them. And [6:04] then I put up this huge piece of plywood [6:06] in front of my house that said golf [6:08] balls three for a dollar. And that was [6:10] my first business. And at the time, it [6:13] was just normal. It was natural. Uh I [6:15] didn't know any different. And now I [6:17] have a 9-year-old, and I was nine when I [6:19] did that. And we live on a busy road [6:21] today. I lived on a busy road then. And [6:23] the thought of him like negotiating, [6:26] haggling with grown-ups wearing polo [6:28] shirts on our doorstep is unfathomable. [6:31] But that's what I was doing. And that [6:33] planted the seed that kind of taught me [6:35] that business is approachable. Um, [6:38] preferably it's approachable. [6:40] Approachable and scalable can be the [6:41] same thing. They don't have to be at [6:42] odds with one another. So, and how many [6:44] businesses have you started since then? [6:46] >> I lose count. I have a spreadsheet. Um, [6:48] but it's at least 80. [6:51] And what's the what have the outcomes [6:53] been? How much money have you made? What [6:54] kind of how has that changed your life? [6:56] What freedom has that given you? [6:57] >> Yeah. So, cumulatively uh all of the [7:00] businesses have generated low hundreds [7:02] of millions of revenue. Um low tens of [7:05] millions of profit. Um but on a real [7:08] number basis, [7:10] the majority of them have been abandoned [7:13] or fizzled out or failed or there was [7:16] too much opportunity cost so I pivoted [7:18] to something else. Um, it's just a [7:20] numbers game. [7:22] >> And how has that changed your life? What [7:24] does your lifestyle look like? [7:26] >> My life is awesome. Um, we built our [7:28] dream house in our 20s. Uh, we had all [7:30] four of our kids in our 20s. We travel a [7:33] lot. Uh, we're I've been married for 17 [7:35] years. We're a very close family. We [7:37] take a lot of trips. Um, we live in a [7:40] good school district, but my kids go to [7:42] public school and, um, we have [7:44] everything we need and more, and we're [7:46] very grateful for that. [7:47] What is the overt sort of underpinning [7:50] mentality that's required for someone to [7:53] be successful at starting businesses in [7:55] the way that you started them? Starting [7:56] these side hustles at volume and seeing [8:00] success. Is there like a foundational [8:01] mentality or personality or character [8:04] trait required before we get into the [8:06] tactics? Yeah, the [8:09] I should say that the the pain of your [8:13] problem needs to be greater than how [8:16] much you care about what people think [8:17] about you. It needs to get to that point [8:20] because by far that is the biggest [8:22] roadblock to success is people caring [8:24] too much about what people think about [8:26] them. And so they don't want to do the [8:28] thing or they don't want to talk about [8:30] doing the thing because some random [8:32] person from high school follows them on [8:34] Facebook and might comment something, [8:36] right? Which is really silly, but I I've [8:38] been there. I get it. Right? If we can [8:40] get over that, if we can just flip the [8:42] switch in our brain that says people are [8:44] thinking about me, people are caring [8:45] about me and just switch that to off. [8:48] Right? Because the world is our oyster [8:50] at that point. And in terms of where we [8:53] sit at this moment of time with [8:54] technology, with AI, with in fast [8:57] internet, with mobile phones, do you [8:59] think this is the best time for people [9:01] to start something to to start a side [9:04] hustle or to try? Every day that goes [9:06] by, the timing gets better for people, [9:09] right? Things are getting more [9:10] competitive, but there are more tools [9:12] than ever. Um, 10 years ago, if I wanted [9:16] to start a business, and this is like [9:17] the internet's in full swing, social [9:19] media is in full swing, I probably had [9:20] to spend a lot of money or move to San [9:22] Francisco or raise venture capital. [9:24] That's like I I would love for you to [9:28] try to convince me. Try to give me an [9:29] idea where you have to raise money or [9:31] where you have to go allin or where you [9:33] you have to quit your job. It doesn't [9:35] exist. With all these AI tools, software [9:38] tools, you can make a website with one [9:39] prompt. You can make an app with one [9:41] prompt. You could post to Facebook [9:43] Marketplace and have hundreds of [9:44] inquiries within an hour. You could post [9:46] Facebook ads. You could go to [9:47] Craigslist. Like, you could put a sign [9:49] up in front of your house. You could go [9:51] launch a survey to people. Like, there [9:53] are so many tools for testing and [9:55] validating and experimenting with these [9:57] concepts that it is more accessible than [10:00] ever. Why don't people? [10:04] I think number one is they're afraid of [10:06] what people think. Number two is they [10:08] don't have the tools or at least they're [10:10] not connecting the tools with the ideas, [10:12] right? They'll use Facebook Marketplace [10:14] to sell a sectional, but then they won't [10:17] think to use it when validating their [10:20] woodworking idea, right? They're just [10:23] not connecting the dots. There's too [10:24] many tools in a sense, so we don't know [10:26] how to tie them all together. Um, [10:30] they also probably don't know [10:33] like how much the law of abundance is a [10:35] real thing, right? People think business [10:38] is a zero sum game. What does that mean? [10:40] >> Well, they think that things are [10:41] oversaturated. They'll have an idea for [10:43] a product or a service and then they'll [10:45] get really excited and then they'll go [10:47] Google it and then we'll see it exists [10:48] and they'll move on. And when I do that [10:50] and I see it exists, I'm like, "Yes, [10:52] this is it. Someone someone went to the [10:55] front lines of the battlefield and [10:56] validated this for me." And then I'll go [10:58] to the web archive. I'll go to who is [11:01] and I'll go look at what their website [11:03] has looked like over the last decade. [11:05] See where they started. Maybe their [11:06] product was $99. Now it's like 49 every [11:10] 2 months. Interesting. Okay. I'll look [11:13] at the the copy of their headline. I'll [11:15] look at like how many tabs they have on [11:18] their website. Do they post their [11:19] Instagram feed on? I'll look at all [11:21] these things and see how it's evolved [11:22] over time and think awesome. I'm going [11:26] to start where he's at today. like this [11:27] guy already proved it out for me. He [11:29] took all the risk. This is amazing. This [11:31] exists. I don't need to like do it [11:33] better. I don't need to do it [11:34] differently. I just need to do the same [11:36] thing. Um and the market is big enough, [11:39] the world is big enough to where I can [11:41] win as well. [11:42] >> You said um web archive. What role does [11:44] web archive play? What is that for [11:46] anyone that isn't familiar? And how do [11:47] you use that? [11:48] >> Yeah, it's just a tool that shows [11:50] snapshots uh over time of what a website [11:52] looks like, right? So, it's a great way [11:54] of kind of reverse engineering what [11:56] businesses have done to be successful. [11:59] And then there's another tool called [12:00] Similar Web where you can see what their [12:02] traffic has been over time. And you can [12:04] kind of overlay the two and you can say, [12:06] "Oh, interesting. When they when they [12:08] redesigned their website to be more [12:09] mobile friendly, their traffic went from [12:12] 3,000 a month to 4500 a month. [12:15] Interesting. I'm just going to make it [12:16] mobile friendly from day one." Right? So [12:18] we are at a great advantage when we [12:20] start where our competitors or our [12:23] future competitors already are instead [12:25] of starting where we think we need to be [12:27] starting like trying to be different or [12:29] innovative or unique. In my experience, [12:31] that's more of like a signal of our [12:33] pride or our ego. We feel kind of like [12:36] weird or odd or even dirty or unethical [12:39] if we're just like copying and pasting a [12:41] business. Even if we had the original [12:43] idea ourselves when really there's [12:45] nothing to be ashamed of. We don't want [12:47] to steal their intellectual property or [12:49] their logo or anything, but copy what's [12:51] already working. [12:53] >> People think, you know, people don't [12:54] think that that's a thing because they [12:56] think if I copy a business that's [12:58] already working, then I'm not going to [12:59] get any customers because that this [13:01] existing business has all the customers. [13:04] >> But it's interesting. I had someone on [13:05] the show where they talked about how [13:07] some of the greatest entrepreneurs in [13:08] the world basically just copy 95% of the [13:10] blueprint. I think it was Walmart. I [13:11] think he was talking about Walmart, but [13:13] yeah, they copied other like regional [13:15] grocery chains. Mhm. [clears throat] [13:17] Copying as a strategy. [13:18] >> Yeah. [13:20] Have you done that? [13:21] >> Oh, absolutely. [13:22] >> Give me an example. [13:24] >> Okay. Well, I I had a phone repair [13:27] business in when I was in college, 2010, [13:31] and I got a call one day from someone [13:34] that said, "Hey, Chris, I want to buy [13:36] all of your broken iPhone screens." Do [13:38] you have any broken iPhone screens? [13:39] Sure. We don't throw them away cuz we [13:41] think it's bad for the environment. We [13:42] just have a box of them. How much will [13:44] you pay me? three bucks a piece. Why? [13:47] Why? Why will you pay me $3? It's just [13:49] broken glass. And they said, "Well, [13:51] there's actually a way of [13:52] remanufacturing these. We can send them [13:54] to China. We can remove the broken [13:55] glass, put new glass on them, and then [13:57] we can resell them as a remanufactured [13:59] unit." And that was just like a light [14:01] bulb, right? So, most people, I think, [14:03] at this point, would say, "Yeah, like, [14:05] yeah, where do I ship these?" You know, [14:07] but I was like, "Oh, I need to be in [14:09] that business. I want to copy that guy [14:11] who called me." right now. I don't know [14:13] what his website was. I don't know. I [14:15] don't know what the name of his business [14:16] was. There was no web archive at the [14:18] time to look at. I just wanted to copy [14:20] the business model cuz I thought this is [14:22] going to be a thing. I'm in the [14:24] industry. I know the industry. I'm going [14:26] to do this as well. We did 2 million the [14:28] first year, then five, and then nine, [14:30] and then we exited a few years after [14:32] that. [14:33] >> It's interesting, but you know, you [14:34] often don't think that [14:36] everyone's in search of a new idea. [14:38] >> Mhm. [14:40] >> And it's tough to find new ideas. Yeah, [14:42] like I think was it Einstein that said [14:44] there's no such thing as a new idea? [14:45] Sounds right. But you have an [14:47] orientation just to look at existing [14:48] models and to replicate them. Do you put [14:50] a spin on it at all? I'll develop my own [14:54] spins over time. Right. Because we're [14:56] all a product of our environment. And so [14:58] in in the case of this business, I [15:01] started copying. Exactly. Right. Um I [15:03] went and found people in China. I just [15:05] went to Alibaba. I messaged a ton of [15:08] people that sold iPhone screens and I [15:09] said, "Do you recycle? Do you recycle? [15:11] did you recycle? And like five or 10% of [15:13] them said yes. So then I shipped them [15:15] samples and then they shipped me some [15:17] back and and then over time I started [15:20] like taking some marketing principles [15:22] principles from previous businesses like [15:24] Facebook ads, cold calling and I started [15:26] applying them just cuz I didn't know how [15:28] this other competitor was finding [15:30] success. I knew he was cold calling and [15:32] that was working. That's all I knew. [15:33] Remember I didn't even know the name of [15:34] his business. And so over time, you [15:37] start using your previous experiences to [15:39] apply these tweaks to the business and [15:41] to make it your own. But if you do that [15:43] right at the outset, right? Like if I [15:46] got a call and he said, "I want to buy [15:47] your broken iPhone screens." And I said, [15:48] "Okay, I'm going to do that, but I don't [15:50] want to just sell iPhone screens. That's [15:51] lame. I'm going to do Samsung." Right? [15:54] Pretty good chance there's not even a [15:55] market for that or there's not even a [15:56] method for that. And because of my my [15:58] ego, my pride, my unwillingness to just [16:01] copy what's already working, I wouldn't [16:03] that I wouldn't have that successful [16:05] business in my back pocket. Right? [16:08] [clears throat] [16:08] >> So, if you do twists in the beginning, [16:10] it's kind of like your um I'm kind of [16:13] thinking of an analogy like if you're on [16:14] a long road trip and you start taking [16:16] detours early on or if a flight is on a [16:19] flight path and he starts like getting [16:21] off track just a little bit at the [16:22] beginning, he's going to end off he's [16:24] going to end up hundreds of miles away [16:25] from his destination. But if he starts [16:27] making tweaks along the way, then he'll [16:30] be much closer to where he would have [16:31] been anyway. [16:32] >> Mhm. And you [clears throat] might reach [16:34] a better destination with some of those [16:36] >> tweaks because you're blending it with [16:38] your your experience, what you know [16:40] better than the person that you're [16:41] copying. [16:42] >> And so it's important to to copy the [16:44] model exactly at the beginning because [16:46] you're also going to learn what it is [16:48] about that existing model that works. [16:50] Yeah. [16:51] >> And therefore what you can iterate on, [16:52] change, expand. If you if you didn't, [16:54] then you might miss something. Exactly. [16:56] Cuz so often I made the mistake of [16:59] looking at another business and saying, [17:01] "Oh man, why are they doing that? Why [17:03] are they charging like that? Why? Like [17:04] they're charging all these different [17:06] things. That's so confusing." I made [17:07] this mistake. I had a an e-commerce [17:09] fulfillment business where brands would [17:11] send us all their products. We had this [17:13] big warehouse and we would ship all all [17:15] of their stuff out, right? And I was [17:18] like, "Why do they have storage fees, [17:20] pick pack, and ship fees? They they [17:22] charge fees for tracking their [17:24] expiration dates. They charge extra fees [17:27] if there's five items in a box versus [17:28] four. Like there's so much friction [17:30] there. That's so messy. Like we're going [17:32] to make this simple. We're going to just [17:34] one flat fee, no storage fee, and that's [17:36] going to be our differentiator, right? [17:38] And then over time, over the course of [17:39] months and years, we learned, oh, [17:42] storage fees. It's because sometimes [17:44] your customers go out of business and [17:46] then you're left holding the bill and [17:48] like your storage costs are actually [17:49] very high but there's nothing to pass [17:51] on. Oh, pick back and ship fees because [17:54] you learn all these things and you're [17:56] like, "Okay, I wasn't like this genius [17:58] that had an MBA. I was just like trying [18:00] to put my own spin on it cuz I thought I [18:01] was smarter than that business owner." [18:03] Turns out someone that's been doing this [18:04] for 15 years versus 15 days knows a lot [18:07] more about the industry than me. And I'm [18:09] much better off just copying his [18:10] pricing, copying the layout of his [18:12] website, copying the size of the [18:14] warehouse he has, copying the same niche [18:16] that he's going after, cuz that's [18:18] clearly working for him. So, I don't [18:20] make that mistake anymore. I don't I [18:22] don't assume that other competitors are [18:24] idiots, right? Yeah. [18:26] >> I've been proven wrong too many times. I [18:27] assume that they're doing that because [18:31] they've learned the hard way. Yeah. [18:33] >> And if I copy them, then I won't have to [18:34] learn the hard way. [18:35] >> I had um several of our executives over [18:37] at my house over the last couple of days [18:39] and we were looking at different models [18:41] of so basically we're looking at other [18:43] companies that do similar things to us [18:45] that have been around for a long time. [18:46] And the question that I ended up asking [18:48] at one moment when I was had the exact [18:50] same epiphany. I was like why do they do [18:51] it that way? Isn't that shitty? [18:53] >> And there was a second where I think we [18:55] were tempted to try and reinvent the [18:57] wheel. But the question I ask myself now [18:59] with the wisdom of like many years of [19:01] business is like why did it end up that [19:03] way? [19:05] >> Which is why did our competitor who's [19:06] been doing this for 50 years end up [19:09] there? [19:10] >> Because that as you said there's clearly [19:12] a set of things that have happened that [19:15] have made them conclude whether it's at [19:17] scale or some other factor that's made [19:19] them conclude that this is the best way [19:20] of doing it. And just like you I've been [19:22] wrong so many times where I've thought [19:24] they're just idiots. That's why they [19:25] they they can't see this obvious thing. [19:27] But actually their model is stress [19:28] tested in the market much more than mine [19:31] is. So maybe I should [19:33] >> I should put my ego aside and at least [19:35] start how they start as you said which I [19:37] think is really important advice. [19:38] >> Yeah. Well, there are times when a [19:40] company just keeps doing something [19:41] because it works. [19:42] >> Yeah. [19:42] >> And so they don't take the time to test [19:44] something that works better, [19:46] >> right? [19:46] >> But it's almost impossible to guess what [19:48] that is, right? Like if a if a clothing [19:51] brand is growing their business entirely [19:52] through Facebook ads um and they've just [19:55] never tried Google ads, maybe Google ads [19:57] could convert twice as better. Twice [19:59] twice better, right? But I don't want to [20:01] guess that. I just want to start with [20:02] Facebook ads and then I'll still take 5% [20:04] of my budget and start testing other [20:06] concepts. But nine times out of 10, I [20:08] ended up just coming right back to [20:10] Facebook ads. It got me thinking about [20:12] how in business basically everything, [20:14] again speaking broadly here, can be put [20:16] into one of two categories. either like [20:18] old problems where thousands of people [20:20] have come before you and the same [20:22] solutions and same thinking is still [20:25] relevant and then new problems you know [20:27] things like AI have created a set of new [20:29] problems new opportunities as well and [20:32] what I tend to find is that like 95% of [20:34] the things in business are like old [20:35] problems like hiring cash flow how [20:37] finance is done legal all those kinds of [20:39] things [20:40] >> and the and when when you're dealing [20:42] with a new an old problem expertise is [20:44] usually the answer which is like find [20:46] someone who knows hire someone or mentor [20:48] or whatever and then you have these new [20:50] problems where [20:51] >> there is no blueprint in our industry. [20:53] It's a new new challenge. So [20:55] experimentation is the answer. Does that [20:57] like broadly hold in your in your mind? [20:59] >> Oh 100%. Yeah. I I like to say test [21:01] everything except drugs. [21:03] >> Like we're always testing. Um it's the [21:06] basis to everything we do. [21:08] >> But do you test when it's an old [21:09] problem? [21:10] >> Can you give me an example? So [21:13] like things like cash flow management um [21:17] >> hiring principles around like probation [21:20] and uh notice periods [21:24] um a lot of legal structuring and deals [21:27] things with like a wellestablished [21:28] president [21:29] >> well established presidents where like [21:30] nothing has fundamentally changed in the [21:32] world that makes that invalid. Yeah, I [21:36] think if it's an old problem, I look to [21:38] an example of someone within the last [21:40] decade that's solved it in an [21:42] interesting way and I'm more likely to [21:44] copy that. Like in hiring, traditionally [21:47] companies will they'll spend hours and [21:49] weeks or days hiring, going from round [21:51] to round to round, person. And if you [21:53] look at Y Combinator, arguably the [21:55] greatest, you know, startup incubator in [21:57] the world, they have seven-minute [21:58] interviews. Um, and they said they would [22:00] make it five minutes, but it just felt [22:02] rude, right? and in their interviews, [22:05] they really know in the first three [22:06] minutes if it's a fit or not, and then [22:08] the interview's done. Like, they're [22:09] either in or they're not. I I approach [22:11] hiring the same way. Um, I would much [22:13] rather um take a like a a law of large [22:17] numbers approach to it and give five [22:20] people 30 days to show what their skills [22:24] are as opposed to spending 30 days going [22:26] all in on one person. Because in my [22:28] experience, that one person that I spent [22:30] 30 days on is not any more likely to [22:32] succeed than those those other five [22:34] people that I might be testing. [22:36] >> Okay. [22:38] And your example of that storage company [22:40] you started. [22:40] >> Mhm. [22:41] >> It sounds like you hit an old problem. [22:43] >> Yes, very much so. [22:44] >> And you tried to innovate and [22:46] experiment, but this was an old problem [22:47] where the laws of human beings and how [22:48] they behave and businesses going bust [22:50] was still pertinent. [22:51] >> Yeah. And at the end of our our 2-year [22:53] experiment, like we look just like all [22:55] of our competitors, right? So, if we [22:57] would have started there, we could have [22:59] saved two years. [23:00] >> And this is what I find is founders [23:03] waste years trying to experiment where [23:06] old problems are still um strong and [23:09] still hold. [23:10] >> Yeah. [23:10] >> And this is what I the mistake several [23:11] of the mistakes I made in my company was [23:13] I should have spent all of my time [23:14] experimenting on the new problems. [23:15] >> Uhhuh. and should have hired people to [23:18] tell me um how to navigate the old [23:21] problems. [23:21] >> Yeah. [23:22] >> What what was your um I think one of the [23:24] videos that made you go pretty viral was [23:26] your story of [23:28] >> BIES. We don't know what BIES is around [23:30] the world. I think it's a US brand. [23:32] >> Yeah. [23:32] >> But this shows I think how you've always [23:34] had an orientation to think slightly [23:36] differently or in innovatively. [23:37] >> Yeah. [23:38] >> What happened with BIES? [23:39] >> So this was during the time when I was [23:41] running that business shipping products [23:42] for other companies. Right. Bies is a [23:45] gas station brand uh with only 50 [23:47] locations. And from those 50 locations, [23:49] they do billions of dollars of revenue. [23:52] I say gas station, they're between [23:54] 40,000 and 80,000 square feet. Wow. [23:56] >> They're massive. They have an amazing [23:58] brand, an amazing logo, and they just [24:01] have a lot of trust from their [24:03] customers. But these gas stations are [24:05] like they're on the way out to these [24:06] road trip destinations. They're out in [24:08] the middle of nowhere. And so if you're [24:09] if you live in Dallas and you're driving [24:11] down to the beach, you're going to stop [24:12] by Bies on the way there and on the way [24:13] back, and you're probably going to spend [24:15] hundreds of dollars, right? You're going [24:16] to fill up the tank, then you're going [24:17] to buy shirts and snacks and all that [24:19] stuff. So, at the time we were running [24:21] this e-commerce fulfillment business, we [24:23] went to Buckies. I brought my cousin, my [24:25] business partner, um, just to kind of [24:27] show him the experience. And we were [24:30] just having a conversation. I remember [24:31] exactly where I was. I was like under [24:33] this underpass, this huge under pass in [24:35] DFW. We were driving home and I said, [24:37] "Man, these guys must kill it online. [24:39] They must sell so much stuff." Um, [24:42] >> why? [24:43] >> Because I knew that Disney sells like [24:45] billions of dollars of t-shirts on their [24:47] website, right? I read a stat recently. [24:49] So, I kind of just took that data point, [24:51] connected it to Bies, and said, "All [24:52] right, Bies is a fraction of the size of [24:54] Disney, but they have the same amount of [24:56] brand loyalty. People love their shirts. [24:58] You'll see their shirts all over the [24:59] world, even though they only have 50 [25:01] locations like in the Southeast, right?" [25:03] And so we went to their website and [25:05] there was no shop button. There was no [25:07] place to buy their stuff and I was just [25:09] like like all the light bulbs were going [25:12] off at once, right? It was like, "Oh my [25:14] gosh, okay, we need to reach out to [25:16] them. Like we need to bring them [25:17] online." I just had all these ideas and [25:19] my cousin is is much more balanced than [25:22] I am. He's like the the operator and I'm [25:25] like the ADHD crazy guy, right? So his [25:27] role is to like calm me down and he's [25:29] very good at that. But I just couldn't [25:31] be calmed down from this. I'm like, "No, [25:33] no, no. We got to do something here. [25:35] We're going to buy one of everything. [25:37] We're going to hire a photographer to [25:39] take pictures of it. We're going to [25:40] launch our own BIES online store, and [25:43] we're going to try to go viral." Like, [25:45] it's viral or bust, right? If we don't [25:46] go viral, then I'll just be eating these [25:49] unhealthy snacks for the next 3 years of [25:51] my life. And so, we did. We bought one [25:53] of everything. Uh, it cost thousands of [25:55] dollars. I brought all four of my kids. [25:57] And, uh, we brought it back to our [25:58] warehouse. We took pictures of it. We [26:00] launched a website. Um, and I emailed [26:03] all the reporters I could find. Uh, and [26:06] one of them just loved the idea. He ran [26:09] with it. And so he reached out to BIES [26:11] for comment cuz they wouldn't respond to [26:12] my cold emails. I wanted to launch this [26:14] like with them in tandem, but who am I? [26:16] They didn't care about me. And I don't [26:17] blame them. And so he wrote this big [26:20] article about me. Millions of people [26:22] read it. All these other news outlets uh [26:24] wrote about it. And we did hundreds of [26:26] thousands of of dollars in our first 30 [26:28] days organically from that. [26:30] How did Bies feel about that? [26:32] >> They wanted us to make some key changes [26:34] to the website. They wanted us to like [26:37] basically put disclaimers everywhere [26:39] that said we are not Bies. We're not [26:41] affiliated with Bies. They wanted us to [26:43] change the name. It had the word beaver [26:44] in the name. That's their mascot. They [26:47] just they didn't want it to be confusing [26:48] at all. So, we made all those changes [26:51] and then we got like the unofficial [26:53] thumbs up from them. They said, "We're [26:54] not going to sign anything, but like you [26:56] have our blessing. Um, have fun." And [26:59] did that website make you a lot of [27:00] money? [27:01] >> Yeah, it still is. It's been 5 years. We [27:03] still own it, 100% of it, and it's going [27:05] great. [27:05] >> And it's made you millions. [27:06] >> Uh-huh. [27:09] >> What can someone listening take from [27:11] that in terms of applying that to their [27:14] own life, finding opportunities like [27:16] that out in the world, or is that just a [27:17] oneandone? Is there only one opportunity [27:19] like that? Okay. So, specific, I get [27:22] asked that question a lot. How could [27:23] someone do that with another brand? [27:26] I don't know. If if there was another [27:28] brand out there like that, I would be [27:30] doing it, right? Trader Joe's is [27:32] similar, but they're very ligious. Um I [27:35] think that was kind of lightning in a [27:36] bottle for that particular experiment as [27:39] in launching an online brand for an [27:41] in-person business. Okay. But people [27:43] should not be disheartened hearing that [27:45] because on a macro level like people [27:49] should take their curious ideas very [27:52] seriously. [snorts] They need to shorten [27:54] the amount of time spent between having [27:56] the idea and doing something about that [27:59] idea [28:00] >> because that will strengthen their bias [28:03] for action muscle, right? We all have [28:06] ideas, some of them good, some of them [28:07] bad on a regular basis. We usually don't [28:10] do anything about it. It's just a [28:11] passing thought, right? Whether it's a [28:13] business idea or a hard conversation I [28:15] need to have with something, any idea, [28:17] right? But the the the more we shrink [28:20] the amount of time between doing [28:22] something about that idea and having the [28:24] idea that that idea, the more often [28:26] we'll do that. And it becomes this [28:27] self-perpetuating snowball that just [28:30] compounds. And then before we know it, [28:32] we'll get more ideas. We'll do more [28:34] about those ideas. We'll be testing [28:35] things. We'll be learning tools. We'll [28:37] be experimenting. And we'll have a whole [28:40] portfolio of businesses. Is there [28:42] something in your mentality or [28:44] perspective though where you walk into a [28:45] Buckies and you even think about how you [28:47] could do something whereas most people [28:48] walk into a Bies and buy their stuff and [28:50] leave? Like is there something [28:51] foundational in the way that you're [28:52] looking at the world? Yeah. But I don't [28:54] think I'm any different. I think um I [28:58] think a lot of people have ideas like [28:59] that. Like you walk into a BIES and you [29:02] see something about something that could [29:04] be improved and people have these [29:06] passing thoughts and they move on. I [29:08] think that you become an expert at doing [29:12] something about those ideas. When you do [29:14] something about those ideas, you just [29:15] you get better at at what you do, at [29:17] what you test, [29:18] >> cuz you've built up some kind of muscle, [29:20] which means that you don't really care [29:22] about it seems failure as much as the [29:24] average person. And also in that [29:27] particular case, [29:28] >> the average person might think, well, [29:29] I've got no experience in doing that. [29:30] >> Mhm. No, no one has any experience in [29:33] anything until they do it, right? Like [29:35] every every expert started out as a [29:37] beginner, right? [29:40] Sometimes though, people try this and [29:43] they learn h doesn't give them energy. [29:46] It's not for them. That's okay. Now, [29:48] when they have ideas, they can know, all [29:50] right, box checked. That's not really [29:52] for me. That entrepreneurship thinks [29:54] someone else needs to do that. And [29:55] great, good. All the power to them. I [29:58] just want people to answer that question [30:00] for themselves. I hate seeing regret in [30:03] people's faces. Like I have friends that [30:06] want to start a business. They've always [30:07] talked about it and I know they would be [30:09] good at it and I know it just eats them [30:10] up and they have really really good [30:12] ideas objectively and I I just hate [30:16] seeing them have that question for the [30:18] rest of their lives. I just want them to [30:20] to taste entrepreneurship. [30:23] Is it for everybody though? You know, [30:25] you can think think of all your friends. [30:27] >> Yeah. [30:27] >> You can probably put them in groups of [30:29] this person should, this person [30:30] shouldn't. Mhm. And what defines who [30:32] goes in which group? [30:35] >> To me, it's how far they go in doing [30:39] something about that idea because I will [30:42] have friends that will text me ideas or [30:45] talk to me about ideas and then I never [30:46] hear from them again about that thing. I [30:49] don't worry about them. Right? I I feel [30:52] like there's a selection bias at play. [30:54] Like if they really wanted to do [30:56] something about it, they would get a [30:57] little further down the line. They'd [30:59] follow up with me. that's, hey, I did [31:00] this thing. Cuz I'll always give them [31:02] tips and feedback. You should do this. [31:03] You should try this. And they'll follow [31:04] up. And then, you know, at some point [31:07] along the line, it'll die, right? But if [31:10] they don't get any further than just [31:11] telling me their idea, then [31:14] I don't I don't lose sleep over them. [31:16] >> So, it's kind of surviv. It's kind of [31:18] sort of self- selecting itself anyway. [31:19] >> It is entrepreneurship. [31:21] >> Yeah. Absolutely. But then I have other [31:22] friends that are like they'll follow up, [31:23] they'll follow up, they'll follow up, [31:25] and then and then it dies, which is [31:27] okay. A lot of my ideas die, too. And to [31:29] me, that's a signal that it was supposed [31:30] to die, right? I'll just move on to the [31:32] next thing. Um, so it's those people [31:34] that maybe I'm just biased and they look [31:36] more like me, you know? Um, maybe that's [31:39] not an accurate signal or not, but if [31:41] they look more like me, then that's a [31:42] signal that they they should get further [31:45] down the line and actually launch [31:46] something that gets to revenue. Yeah. [31:48] >> In your head, think of one person you [31:50] know that should never start a business. [31:52] >> Okay. [31:53] >> Why did you think of that person without [31:56] telling me who they are? because they [32:00] make a lot of money at their job and [32:03] they like their job well enough. They're [32:05] not miserable. Um, and they're in their [32:09] late 40s and they probably feel like it [32:11] would be too big of a risk to start [32:13] something. [32:13] >> And do you objectively agree that it [32:15] would be too big of a risk for them? [32:16] >> I do. [32:17] >> So, you're looking at that on a [32:18] risk-reward basis thinking the reward [32:20] doesn't out outweigh the risk here for [32:22] you? [32:22] >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz people come to me like [32:25] hoping that I'll encourage them to quit [32:26] their job, right? Like begging me to do [32:28] that without actually begging me. And I [32:30] don't want to do that. Like I I've never [32:33] had to quit a job. Like I I started with [32:35] entrepreneurship, right? So the thought [32:37] of being 48 with four kids and quitting [32:41] my $400,000 a year job to test [32:44] something. It just sounds crazy to me. [32:46] >> On the other hand, think of one person [32:47] you know that isn't an entrepreneur, but [32:49] definitely should be, but you always [32:51] think, "Why don't they do it?" [32:52] >> Yeah. Why did you think of that person? [32:55] >> Because it's a person that comes to me [32:58] the most often with ideas and they're [33:00] really, really good ideas. He's an [33:02] engineer. Um, and so he sees the world [33:05] in that way. Engineers make great [33:07] entrepreneurs. Um, [33:09] and he has a great work ethic and he's [33:12] like mid-career but not not so far [33:14] along. And I know objectively that he's [33:17] not [33:19] he's actually quite miserable in his [33:20] job. And I hate that for him because I [33:23] see the talent that's there. And I want [33:26] him like I think he would excel and I [33:28] want to see that dream come true for [33:31] him. [33:31] >> Why isn't he doing it? [33:33] >> I think it it's insecurity. [33:36] >> Fear. [33:37] >> Yeah. fear of [33:42] probably fear of just letting go of [33:45] something certain that's provided his [33:46] family a nice lifestyle and not getting [33:50] that back again ever. Um [33:53] I think that insecurities are at the [33:55] root of our best and our worst selves [33:58] and it can drive us to be our best or [34:00] worst selves um depending on how [34:02] self-aware we are about those [34:04] insecurities. [34:06] Is there a little bit of a flaw in his [34:09] thinking in your perspective? Like why [34:12] is it you you still even though what [34:14] he's saying there about you know what [34:15] you think he believes there about the [34:17] security for his family is true you [34:19] still think he should [34:20] >> which suggests that there's some kind of [34:22] flaw you see in the way he's thinking [34:24] about it. [34:24] >> Yeah. [34:26] Because he doesn't have to quit his job. [34:29] um there's enough time in the day to do [34:32] this on the nights and weekends to to do [34:34] enough of it to really prove itself out. [34:37] Often times like [34:41] whatever our side hustle is, uh it has a [34:45] very low ceiling if we're only working [34:46] on it um after hours, right? Let's say [34:51] we're spending 20 hours a week on a side [34:53] hustle and it makes us $50,000 a year, [34:56] but our job pays us $200,000 a year and [34:58] we spend 40 hours a week on that. One [35:00] thing that I've noticed, which is kind [35:02] of contradictory to how I feel about [35:04] quitting something, um, is when we go [35:08] from 20 hours a week on our the $50,000 [35:11] a year side hustle to 40 hours a week [35:12] and we quit the full-time thing, that [35:15] $50,000 a year goes to 500,000, right? [35:18] We double the amount of hours, but we 10 [35:20] times the amount of money that comes [35:22] from it because of the fact that we burn [35:24] the boats that it has to work. I just I [35:27] don't want people to burn the boats too [35:29] soon, right? Like there has to be a [35:31] pathway. Like let's say our Facebook ads [35:33] are converting really well. We've tested [35:35] scaling it and they're profitable and we [35:38] know what that would look like. But if [35:39] we scale it, then we're going to have [35:40] more customer service complaints. We're [35:42] going to have to do more architecture of [35:43] the website. But we like we see a path [35:45] to scaling and it's already profitable [35:48] and we know that like probably my boss [35:50] will take me back like we have kind of [35:52] these uh safety nets. That's like the [35:55] perfect time to really burn the boats. [35:57] Not when like we have an idea or we've [35:59] tested it a little bit but not [36:00] thoroughly. Um that's too soon in my [36:02] opinion. [36:03] >> And but by burn the boats you mean the [36:04] analogy of I guess some of the the [36:06] wartime leaders who would pull up on an [36:08] island that they were invading and burn [36:09] the boat so that they had no plan B. [36:11] >> Mhm. Exactly. Yeah. to quit. [36:14] >> Do you think that really matters? The [36:15] whole idea of a plan B. Do you think [36:17] people should have a plan B when they [36:19] embark on entrepreneurship? [36:22] Can I contradict myself 100%. All right. [36:24] So, the rational Chris, the Chris with [36:27] four kids says absolutely like you got [36:30] to be a dad, you got to be a husband, [36:32] you got to provide for your family, [36:33] right? Um, and again, there's so many [36:36] tools out there for testing, for [36:38] scaling, for outsourcing. We could find [36:40] a business partner to help pick up the [36:41] slack. We could use our kids, we could [36:42] use our spouse, whatever. There's so [36:44] many ways to really vet something out [36:45] before quitting that we don't have to [36:47] quit. [36:48] But [36:50] the other side of my mouth, there's been [36:52] um two times in my entrepreneurial [36:55] career when someone burned the boats for [36:58] me, right? I pull up to an island and [37:00] it's I've got my plan B. I'm testing [37:02] this business. This business is [37:04] profitable. It's paying the bills. And [37:06] then someone else in the middle of the [37:08] night, they snuck out. They burn my [37:10] boats and I wake up and I'm like, whoa, [37:12] where's my plan B? I wasn't ready to [37:14] burn those boats yet. Um, and plan A [37:18] just freaking thrives, right? And it's [37:22] not so much because of the fact that I [37:24] don't have a safety net anymore, but [37:26] it's because that event put a chip on my [37:28] shoulder that makes me want to to prove [37:31] those bad guys wrong. Right. To [37:33] oversimplify, those guys that burn my [37:35] boat. [37:36] >> Toxic motivation. [37:37] >> Exactly. That's a that's a good way to [37:38] put it to show them I didn't need those [37:41] boats. I'm not going back, right? This [37:43] island is better than where I came from. [37:45] >> I remember reading about a study on Plan [37:47] B's where they got a group of students, [37:49] two groups, and then they told them to [37:51] do a puzzle to win a treat. And then in [37:54] one of the groups, they told them that [37:55] they could get this treat at a vending [37:57] machine down the hallway if they if they [37:59] wanted it after. And the group that [38:01] didn't understand they could get the [38:03] same reward from a plan B [38:06] >> worked significantly harder to complete [38:08] that puzzle. [38:09] >> So there's something in the human psyche [38:10] of know when you know that you could [38:14] >> get the reward in another way. When you [38:15] have a plan B, we work less hard at the [38:18] plan A. [38:20] >> Logically, maybe we should, you know, [38:23] practical and [38:24] >> unresponsible [38:26] remove the plan B from our mind. [38:28] >> Yeah. [38:29] >> Yeah. Yeah, I just like I I can't think [38:32] of any stories from people in my sphere [38:34] of influence that have tested something, [38:38] quit the plan A, and then plan B just [38:41] failed and like they just lost [38:43] everything. Like surely that's happened, [38:45] right? That does happen when people like [38:47] prematurely quit, but in my experience, [38:50] it just it doesn't happen. Like it it [38:53] has the opposite effect. It becomes this [38:55] huge motivating factor. And when they [38:57] quit, I ask them like, "How do you feel? [38:59] Are you freaking out?" And it's always [39:02] always, "I'm so excited right now. Like, [39:05] I'm going to go all in on this. Like, [39:07] this has to work." And it does. It just [39:09] does. [39:10] >> A lot of people are looking for passive [39:12] income from side hustles. And I wondered [39:14] what your your op opinion was on passive [39:16] income because it's a word that comes up [39:18] so often in the comment section of this [39:20] channel, but when we're doing sort of [39:21] sentiment analysis and what people are [39:23] what they're interested in. Passive [39:24] income seems to be a bit of a buzz word. [39:26] >> Yeah, it's the silver bullet, right? [39:29] It's like it's the uh it's the financial [39:32] oic you could say. [39:33] >> What is passive income? How would how [39:35] would one define that? I would define it [39:36] as income that you receive um that you [39:40] don't have to continually put effort [39:42] towards like uh buying treasuries, [39:45] earning 4% on on your money and you [39:47] don't do anything and you just get paid. [39:50] And it's it's very hard to find [39:52] especially early on. Like we have to be [39:54] willing to create active income, sweaty [39:56] income, ugly income, like by whatever [39:59] means necessary. And the more we do [40:01] that, the longer we do that, the more um [40:05] realistic true passive income actually [40:07] is. [40:09] Sweaty, ugly income. [40:10] >> Yeah. Give me an example of some sweaty, [40:13] ugly income that anyone listening right [40:15] now could could create. What are your [40:17] favorite examples of non-obvious [40:19] businesses that people have started that [40:20] have resulted in passive, sweaty, ugly [40:22] income? [40:22] >> Yeah, [40:24] I mean, most things that I've started [40:26] have been just that. I had a uh a [40:30] concierge car buying business. Um [40:32] >> a concierge car buying business. [40:34] >> Yeah. What's that? [40:34] >> So, picture a traditional car [40:36] dealership, a used car dealership. You [40:38] got to get your dealer's permit. That uh [40:40] enables you legally to go to the [40:42] auctions and buy cars at wholesale, put [40:44] them on your lot, and sell them. So, I [40:45] did all the regulatory stuff. I got my [40:48] my dealer's permit, but then I would go [40:50] to individuals and they would say, "I [40:52] want a 2024 Seoia. I want it to be blue, [40:55] under 30,000 mi." and I would just go to [40:56] the auction and buy it for them for like [40:59] $700 fee. So, they get wholesale, they [41:01] save money, I make money, I don't have [41:03] to bear the inventory risk and I can buy [41:05] exactly what they want. Um, that sounds [41:08] great, right? On paper. People do that [41:10] business successfully. I didn't invent [41:11] it. I copied it, right? I hated it. Uh, [41:15] I was breaking down on the side of the [41:16] road driving these things back from the [41:17] auction. I'm not a car guy. I don't care [41:19] about cars. I don't work on cars. It's [41:21] not my passion. That was ugly. It was [41:24] hot in Texas. I was standing out on the [41:26] black top. I was making money. It was [41:28] profitable. And I got to the point where [41:30] I just like quit it. I just shut it [41:32] down. Moved on to something else. Um [41:35] that was very active. It was not [41:38] scalable on the surface. It was ugly. I [41:39] hated it. And so I pivoted because I had [41:42] a plan B. I didn't have to do that, [41:44] right? Um that's one example. Uh if [41:47] someone likes cars, it's it's a actually [41:49] a great business. Like I know a [41:50] gentleman in Alabama that makes a lot of [41:52] money doing that, right? For me it was [41:54] it was not great. [41:55] >> So how important then is passion in this [41:57] equation? Like how important it is for [41:59] for you to love the thing to be [42:00] successful at it in your view? I think [42:02] you need to fall in love with business [42:04] with commerce and if you can love [42:06] entrepreneurship turning $1 into two and [42:09] that like if you could focus on that [42:11] being your passion then anything that [42:13] falls underneath that you should win at, [42:16] right? But I I like to say [42:20] follow the profit. pro fit T. Um, until [42:24] you can afford to follow your passion, [42:26] right? Because if we're trying to follow [42:28] our passion from day one, we're probably [42:30] not ever going to get there because the [42:32] statistical likelihood that what we love [42:34] and what makes us money overlaps in the [42:37] beginning is almost zero. So, ignore [42:40] passion for a time. Try to build your [42:43] passion around commerce. Um, and then [42:46] start anything. And then once you're [42:49] able to have more passive income, then [42:51] start things that you're passionate [42:52] about like in the in the actual industry [42:54] that you're passionate about. [42:56] >> Persistence. [42:58] Persistence is obviously going to create [43:00] repetitions to like understand the [43:01] problem to learn more to, you know, so I [43:04] wonder as it relates to passion and [43:06] persistence, they seem [43:08] >> sort of inextricably linked. Something [43:10] I'm more passionate about, I'm more [43:11] likely to continue at even when the [43:13] rewards don't show up. Yeah, like my car [43:15] my car business, right? I had no passion [43:17] for cars and I had another business that [43:19] was doing great. So, so I abandoned [43:22] that. Um, but people think that like [43:26] people sometimes look at themselves as [43:28] lazy or they're not a hard worker. And [43:30] so they're just they're not confident [43:32] that they could do this. But there's [43:34] like everyone is a hard worker. Everyone [43:37] on this planet has the same DNA that [43:39] enables them to work hard. But the [43:42] problem is what they're working on [43:43] probably gives them no energy, right? [43:45] They're probably not passionate about [43:46] it. So, what am I passionate about? [43:49] Well, we got to we got to test [43:50] everything. We have to try new things. [43:51] We have to take that curious question [43:53] and turn it into a business. Maybe [43:55] that's fun. Maybe it's not. Right? We [43:57] need more surface area for finding what [43:59] our passions actually are. Cuz we might [44:00] think that like like I love woodworking, [44:02] right? I don't have to build a business [44:04] around that cuz I love business, right? [44:06] So, I can build a business around [44:07] anything. But if I got super hung up on [44:09] like I cannot make a profit from this [44:11] woodworking business um then I would [44:14] fail at entrepreneurship if I started [44:16] there, right? Whereas if I approached [44:17] this from um the angle of all right, I [44:20] like woodworking. What else do I like? [44:22] Maybe I like running, maybe I like [44:24] cooking, maybe I like short form videos, [44:27] and I just start trying all those new [44:28] things. Then eventually I'm going to [44:30] have enough surface area for testing [44:32] that I'm going to find things where um [44:35] you've heard of the eeky guy principle. [44:36] >> Mhm. [44:37] >> Right. So what you love, what you're [44:40] good at, what the world needs, and what [44:43] you can charge for, right? The overlap [44:46] of that is the sweet spot. That's what's [44:48] scalable. That's what you can do until [44:49] you die. But if you get super hung up on [44:51] that on day one, like I'm just not [44:53] passionate about that, like you're never [44:54] going to find it. Like you're going to [44:55] be in that job forever. My career [44:57] follows the same same arc which is I [44:59] tried tons of things and then I built [45:02] this marketing business and then that [45:03] became more of a product business and [45:05] grew and I didn't love it. Like it [45:07] wasn't my passion to do um to help like [45:10] Coca-Cola sell more cans of Coke or like [45:12] you know Uber sell more Ubers [45:14] necessarily. That wasn't like my passion [45:15] in life. However, it taught me a bunch [45:17] of skills [45:18] >> which then in when I quit that business [45:20] and I spent some time in psychedelics, [45:22] DJing, building software, web 3, you [45:24] name it. Um I came out on the other side [45:26] and could ask myself that guy question [45:28] which is of all the things that I have [45:29] tried what is the thing that I would do [45:31] like really irrespective of money. Now I [45:33] had that luxury to do that and actually [45:35] in 2020 the answer was this. [45:37] >> Mhm. [45:38] >> Like this was the answer. This answer [45:39] was I I literally moved to London from [45:41] New York and found a place without [45:43] viewing it properly that looked like [45:46] this because I thought this would be a [45:47] good podcast set and moved into that [45:49] place called Jack and then we started [45:51] about five five years ago um doing doing [45:54] this weekly [45:55] >> and it's become a business off the back [45:57] of it. [45:58] >> But I didn't have that luxury at the [46:00] start. If I tried that from day one, I [46:01] wouldn't have had a the skills to know [46:03] how to scale an audience. Mhm. [46:04] >> I wouldn't have had the flexibility to [46:07] buy all these cameras which cost like 50 [46:09] grand or whatever at the start. Um so [46:12] and I do think some people sometimes get [46:13] that inverted. [46:14] >> Yeah. And you you're not distracted [46:16] anymore, right? You're not looking for [46:17] the next DJ thing or like you found it. [46:19] [clears throat] You're here right now. [46:21] You're focused on scaling. It's like [46:22] people get so hung up on focus or lack [46:25] thereof and they just beat themselves up [46:27] over it. But in my experience, like a [46:29] lack of focus is a signal that there's [46:32] something else out there, right? right? [46:34] Then maybe we shouldn't be focusing on [46:35] that thing cuz you've probably worked on [46:37] things that had perfect product market [46:39] fit and were just crushing and you [46:42] weren't thinking about starting a DJing [46:43] business at that point, [46:44] >> right? You were all in on this one [46:46] thing. [46:47] >> But in the times when you were working [46:48] on something, you're like, "Maybe I'll [46:49] try this. Maybe I'll try this." And you [46:50] beat yourself up. You're like, "Oh, and [46:52] focus, focus, focus." Like, "Let's [46:53] actually pay attention to those signals. [46:56] Why am I distracted from this thing?" So [46:58] that's I don't know if that's just me [47:00] coping with my own ADHD or if that's [47:03] actually a true principle, but I I try [47:05] to lend some credence to those signals [47:07] of distraction that I get on a regular [47:09] basis. [47:10] >> Yeah, I have a a Sunday shelf, [47:12] >> which is just a digital board on my [47:15] Monday board where when I have ideas [47:18] that like captivate me at 11:00 p.m. at [47:20] night one night, instead of trying to [47:21] act on them immediately, cuz I think I'm [47:23] in some respects like you, I put it on [47:24] the Sunday shelf. [47:25] >> Mhm. And um I wait and see. [47:28] >> Yeah. [47:28] >> I wait and see how much it pulls at me [47:30] to come off the shelf. [47:32] >> And then sometimes it comes off the [47:33] shelf. I get a little bit of the way [47:34] down. I discover that actually there's [47:36] something I didn't realize. And then I [47:37] quit. But then there's this, you know, [47:38] when you think about the like the [47:40] excitement arc of a new idea. You have [47:42] the like initial surge of excitement [47:44] like this is the best thing ever. I'm [47:45] going to become a billionaire. Why has [47:46] no one ever thought of this before? And [47:48] then you kind of get into it and you get [47:49] into that sort of valley of oh this [47:51] is a terrible idea. I'm an idiot. Yep. [47:54] >> If I can come out of that valley, if if [47:56] something pulls me up out of that [47:57] valley, then I think it's worth [47:58] pursuing. [47:59] >> Yeah, that's a good way of looking at [48:00] it. The the valley of despair or [48:02] something that's what they call it. [48:03] >> Yeah. [48:04] >> Yeah. [48:05] >> Do you follow a similar sort of path [48:07] with idea your ideas? It's funny cuz I [48:10] my kind of framework is [48:14] if I have an idea, am I thinking about [48:16] it still two weeks later? For whatever [48:19] reason, that's just my timeline. Two [48:20] weeks. I had an idea yesterday and I was [48:23] at the airport. I was excited about it [48:25] and I was doing research. I like forgot [48:27] about it, right? Who cares, you know? [48:30] But I have ideas where I just cannot get [48:32] it out of my head and I'll see something [48:33] out there in the world that adds to the [48:35] idea and I tell my friend about it and I [48:37] I send these manic voicemails or these [48:40] manic voice notes to my friends about it [48:42] and I'm still thinking about it 2 weeks [48:44] later. That's my signal that there's [48:46] actually something here. Um, [48:49] >> you used the word validating earlier on [48:51] when you're talking about these ideas [48:53] and I I think this is something that [48:56] could really really help a lot of people [48:57] who have a lot of ideas is this idea of [48:59] trying to validate your ideas as fast as [49:00] possible. [49:01] >> Mhm. [49:01] >> How might one validate an idea and can [49:03] you give me an example of an idea that [49:04] you have validated? What does validation [49:06] mean? [49:07] >> Mhm. [clears throat] [49:08] Yeah. So, I like to see people get joy [49:12] from my product or service, right? Not [49:15] just like, well, it's good. Like let's [49:16] say I'm selling a food product. It [49:18] tastes good. It's good. [clears throat] [49:20] Okay, people might buy this, but I'm not [49:23] going to have product market fit. I'm [49:24] going to be pushing a boulder up the [49:25] hill, right? But if people are like, "Oh [49:28] my gosh, this is the best thing I've [49:30] ever had. Where did you make this? How [49:32] did you make this?" It lights up in [49:33] their face. That's an example of a [49:36] validation in my case, right? Same [49:39] industry, food product, completely [49:42] different reactions, right? So, one [49:45] specific example is um my wife has a [49:49] cookie bar business, right? Square [49:52] cookies, and they're amazing. And we're [49:55] not trying to scale it. We don't want to [49:56] scale it. It's a way to teach our kids [49:57] entrepreneurship, and we love it. But [49:59] the best way to validate this was going [50:02] to our local farmers market and just [50:05] posting up and just giving people [50:07] samples and just watching them, right? [50:09] What do they say versus how do they [50:11] react? And is it the same? [50:13] >> What do you mean by that? [50:14] >> Well, sometimes we try to use the [50:16] internet in places where it's it's not [50:18] needful, right? She sold these online, [50:21] right? She shipped them to friends and [50:22] family across the country. Like, they're [50:23] great. We love them. Okay. I didn't see [50:25] you eat it. I don't know how you [50:26] actually love it. Are you saying that [50:28] because you're my mom, right? Or you're [50:30] my friend. But when you solicit feedback [50:33] on your product or service in person, [50:35] even if it's like an internet tool or an [50:37] app, in person makes all the difference. [50:39] You want to take note of what they say [50:41] and take note of their body language and [50:44] how they react when they experience your [50:46] product or service, right? And if all [50:49] three of those things overlap, then [50:51] either they're a psychopath and they're [50:54] just lying for no good reason or you [50:56] have something really special on your [50:57] hands. Uh, and so that's what we did [50:59] with her cookie bar business. And um, [51:01] and they loved it. And you can do that [51:03] with any business. It doesn't have to be [51:04] food. [51:05] >> And what does validation mean? is it's [51:07] checking if the market gives a [51:08] about the thing you're making as fast as [51:10] you can. Yeah. Yeah. Um I like to kind [51:14] of picture a you know a boulder up a [51:17] hill, right? And most people in their [51:20] businesses, even businesses that are [51:21] working, there are two steps forward, [51:23] one step back. Two steps forward, one [51:25] step back. And that's okay. Like that's [51:27] not a bad thing. But in my experience, [51:30] 5% of the time I'll have a business [51:32] where the boulder is chasing me. Like [51:34] I'm trying to not die because this [51:36] boulder's chasing me down a hill. And [51:38] that boulder in this case represents [51:39] customers demand, right? Like I can't [51:42] sleep because I'm fulfilling orders. I'm [51:44] answering emails like I'm not getting [51:46] distracted by the next shiny object. [51:49] That is validation. That's product [51:51] market fit in my experience. You don't [51:53] have to have that to launch. I don't [51:55] want people to misunderstand. Um but if [51:57] you have that, like you have something [51:59] very special and you need to go all in [52:00] on that thing. There was a book [52:02] published uh several years ago called [52:05] the lean startup which talks about this [52:07] idea of just like testing an MVP as [52:09] quick quick quickly as you possibly can. [52:11] >> Can you explain that to the audience who [52:13] probably have ideas but in their head [52:14] are thinking I've got to quit my job. [52:16] I'm going to have to raise money. I'm [52:18] going to have to spend two to three [52:19] years building something to figure out [52:20] if this is a good idea or not. What is [52:22] the alternative approach that you adopt [52:24] when you're trying to stress test an [52:25] idea quickly? [52:26] >> Yeah. So, if I had to pick one tool, I [52:29] mean, it's one that one in four humans [52:31] use every day, and it's Facebook, right? [52:34] You've got Facebook groups, you got [52:36] WhatsApp, um, Instagram, Facebook [52:39] Marketplace, Facebook pages, uh, [52:42] Facebook ads, right? Let's just say [52:44] there's six different meta products, [52:45] Facebook products. That's everything you [52:47] need right there, right? Why why don't [52:49] you give me an example of just a random [52:51] business and I'll I'll tell you or the [52:54] the audience how they could validate [52:56] that with a Facebook product. [52:58] >> Okay. Um [53:01] I'm thinking of starting a [53:07] creatine brand for women that has makes [53:12] creatine taste good. Okay. All right. [53:16] Are we talking powder gummy? What form [53:18] factor? [53:18] >> I don't know. [53:19] >> Okay. Well, let's let's try both. Okay. [53:22] So, I'm going to do something that seems [53:24] very non-obvious and probably won't [53:25] work, but it's the lowest amount of [53:27] friction. I'm going to take a [53:28] description for that and I'm going to [53:30] use Nano Banana, Chad GBT, any of the AI [53:33] image generators to come up with what [53:35] the product could look like, right? In [53:37] both a gummy form and a powder form. [53:39] Okay. Then I'm going to go to Facebook [53:41] Marketplace. You You're just going to [53:42] post a photo. [53:43] >> Yeah. I'm just going to say like women's [53:45] creatine brand actually tastes good. [53:47] tastes good, right? Like, did you know [53:48] that creatine and improves cognitive [53:50] function or whatever? Just your standard [53:52] pitch. I could even use AI to generate [53:53] it. It doesn't really matter at this [53:55] point and I'm gonna post it to Facebook [53:57] marketplace simply because that's the [53:59] lowest amount of friction to get some [54:01] level of validation or not, right? [54:03] Because in my experience, focus is [54:06] overrated and momentum is underrated, [54:09] right? And so you could have told me any [54:12] idea and my first step that I tell you [54:14] to do is going to be something very very [54:16] low friction because I want you to get [54:19] something back from the world, right? [54:21] Cuz the most likely way to sell that [54:23] product is with meta ads, right? But [54:24] there's a lot of friction there. Like [54:26] it's it's hard to use. So you're going [54:28] to be like, "Okay, you're going to go [54:29] choose met ads and you're going to burn [54:32] out and you're going to have be on to [54:33] something else by tomorrow." But that [54:34] might be an amazing idea, right? So, I'm [54:36] going to tell you to go to Facebook [54:37] Marketplace, even though people don't [54:39] sell creatine on Facebook Marketplace. [54:41] And then we're going to see, you know, [54:43] Facebook gives us like three stats when [54:45] you post something to Facebook [54:46] Marketplace clicks and then how many [54:49] people that reach out and then how many [54:50] views. Okay, so I'm going to post one [54:53] Facebook Marketplace ad for the gummies. [54:57] Different picture. It'll look like [54:58] gummies. Um, basically same headline, [55:00] same benefit, same description. post to [55:03] Facebook in the same local market with [55:05] the same radius. Don't want to change [55:06] any variables. And then I'm going to [55:08] open a Google sheet and I'm going to say [55:10] how many views, how many clicks, how [55:13] many messages for that ad. Then I'm [55:15] going to do the same thing. Take the [55:16] same features, the same benefits, [55:18] different picture cuz this one's powder. [55:20] Post it in the same market with the same [55:21] radius to Facebook Marketplace and have [55:23] a new column um views, reachouts, and um [55:28] clicks, right? And then I'm going to [55:30] watch and I'm going to see what's [55:32] getting more clicks and I'm going to [55:33] know within two hours where there's more [55:36] demand. Now, does that little sample [55:38] size indicate like what form factor I [55:41] should go all in on? Not necessarily, [55:43] but it's something. It's a relevant data [55:44] point, right? There's not very likely to [55:46] be a large amount of people searching [55:48] for creatine gummies on Facebook [55:49] Marketplace, but it doesn't matter [55:51] because there's two billion people using [55:52] it, right? So, we're just trying to [55:54] capture some of that traffic. So, I'm [55:57] going to do that with two ads. And then [55:59] after a day or two, I'm going to boost [56:01] those two ads, put $10 behind each of [56:04] them to see how my results differ. Does [56:07] it make any difference? Do I get a lot [56:08] more clicks, a lot more views, or is it [56:10] just wasted? And then I'm going to um [56:13] I'm going to probably post like 10 more [56:15] ads of like different photos, different [56:17] headings, different descriptions, [56:19] different price points, and then put all [56:21] those in a Google sheet and track it. [56:23] All right. Now, I have a lot of data. [56:25] Now, concurrently, so while I'm doing [56:28] all these things, I'm going to go to [56:29] Facebook groups and I'm going to join [56:32] Facebook groups like moms who work out, [56:34] moms who love creatine, moms who love [56:36] rucking, ultrarunner moms, like healthy [56:39] moms, whatever. I'm going to join all [56:41] these groups and just start doing [56:42] searches for creatine, gummies, powders, [56:45] price points, vendors, websites, and [56:48] just start like pulling pieces of data [56:51] out of out of the atmosphere, right? and [56:53] I'm gonna put that in my spreadsheet and [56:55] I want to wait till the Facebook [56:56] marketplace tests are done. I want to do [56:57] that at the same time. Then I'm going to [56:59] start learning Facebook ads because [57:01] everything I've told you to do so far [57:03] takes like 2 hours. Let's say we have an [57:04] afternoon to dedicate to this, right? [57:06] Then I'm going to learn Facebook ads and [57:08] I'm going to watch a YouTube video [57:09] about, you know, how to get Facebook ads [57:11] up in 10 minutes. How important is it to [57:13] understand Facebook ads and how long [57:15] would it take me to get a sufficient [57:16] understanding of Facebook ads? you could [57:19] be proficient in a couple days if if you [57:23] had like one thing to sell and you just [57:25] wanted to go all in on that thing. Um, [57:27] and you actually learned by launching [57:29] ads and not just learning, not just [57:31] endlessly watching YouTube videos, you [57:33] could be fairly proficient uh within a [57:35] couple days easily. Do you think that's [57:37] the skill everybody should have? [57:39] >> Absolutely. I mean, Facebook ads are [57:42] like the infinite money glitch. It's [57:43] just like a a magic money machine. It's [57:46] the reason they're a trillion dollar [57:47] company. Um, it's like a cheat code. [57:50] Yeah. It's a We should know Facebook ads [57:52] like we know how to write emails. Like [57:54] we should know Facebook ads like we know [57:56] how to build websites or to do anything. [57:58] It should be foundational. [58:01] H [58:02] I wonder how many people actually have [58:04] that skill. Very few. That's why there [58:06] are so many ad agencies charging a lot [58:08] of money. [58:10] >> And then so you've got the data back [58:11] into your spreadsheet on this creatine [58:14] situation. How do you then make a [58:15] decision whether this is something worth [58:16] pursuing? [58:17] >> Yeah. Then I would go find like a a [58:20] c-acker that could [58:22] >> it's a company that will take my idea [58:24] and put it into a physical form, right? [58:27] Um I'd find like a supplement company [58:29] that could actually make this and I [58:31] would tell it roughly like what I'm [58:33] thinking and then ask for samples and [58:35] then I would use those samples to go get [58:37] feedback from people in person, right? [58:40] But I wouldn't get those samples until I [58:41] got feedback from all these Facebook [58:43] tests telling me what form factor, what [58:44] price point, what color, what flavor, [58:47] um, etc. And then I would go to a [58:49] farmers market and actually have people [58:51] try it. I've had so many founders speak [58:53] to me and say, "Why didn't this [58:55] particular ad that I ran on this [58:56] platform work for me?" Maybe the copy [58:58] wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong, [59:00] but usually the problem is they're not [59:01] having the right conversation because [59:03] that ad never reached the right person. [59:05] And if you're in B2B marketing, that is [59:07] much of the game. And this is where [59:09] LinkedIn ads solves that problem for [59:11] you. Their targeting is ridiculously [59:13] specific. You can target by job title, [59:15] seniority, company size, industry, and [59:18] even someone's skill set. And their [59:20] network includes over a billion [59:22] professionals, about 130 million of them [59:25] are decision makers. So when you use [59:26] LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand [59:28] in front of the right people. And [59:30] LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B [59:32] return on ad spend across all ad [59:34] networks in my experience. If you want [59:36] to give them a try, head over to [59:38] linkedin.com/diary. [59:40] And when you spend $250 on your first [59:43] LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an [59:45] extra $250 credit from me for the next [59:48] one. That's linkedin.com/diary. [59:51] Terms and conditions apply. [59:54] >> I've heard you say that there's various [59:55] types of entrepreneurs. There's the sort [59:57] of zero to one entrepreneur who's good [59:59] at starting things. There's the [60:00] maintainer. And then there's the [60:01] finisher. [60:02] >> Which one are you? [60:03] >> I'm a starter. Yeah. Through and [60:05] through. I [60:08] if I stay in a business too long, it all [60:11] falls apart, right? Just objectively. [60:14] So, I need to hand off the reigns at a [60:16] very specific point or I need to have a [60:18] partner from the outset that knows me, [60:21] my strengths and my weaknesses um that [60:24] just takes over at a certain point. So, [60:26] I like to say there are starters, [60:28] maintainers, and finishers. A starter [60:31] could be called like a visionary and not [60:33] as like a backhanded compliment way, but [60:35] someone an idea guy, right? Not just a [60:38] business idea guy, but like a marketing [60:39] idea guy. Uh, let's change the subject [60:41] line to this idea guy. Like a an idea [60:44] machine, right? That's a visionary. And [60:47] then you have the maintainer, which [60:49] would be an operator. That's a guy that [60:51] just wakes up every day and loves [60:53] tweaking little things, making small [60:55] improvements. uh process oriented, [60:58] someone that loves growing something and [61:00] just fixing little problems all day, [61:02] right? And then you have a finisher, [61:04] which is like a deal guy, right? That's [61:07] the guy that's a super connector. Uh he [61:09] likes to, oh, you need to talk to Barry. [61:11] And then he calls him, he connects them, [61:12] and like he just gets a lot of energy [61:14] from connecting deals, coming up with [61:16] creative deals for an exit, for a sale, [61:19] putting people together, hiring the [61:21] right people, um seeing something to its [61:24] completion. Um, but I'm definitely in [61:26] the first camp. [61:27] >> Is it possible to be all three? [61:29] >> Yeah. When you're all three, you're Mark [61:31] Zuckerberg. I mean, truly, like you [61:34] start something from scratch and you see [61:35] it to a trillion dollars. Um, there's [61:37] been like I think there have been three [61:39] people on the planet that have brought [61:41] something from zero to a trillion. [61:43] Jensen Wang, Nvidia, um, Elon Musk, and [61:48] Mark Zuckerberg. I think like even Bill [61:50] Gates, even Steve Jobs, I might be [61:53] wrong. Yeah. But even Steve Jobs got out [61:54] long before they hit a trillion market [61:56] cap. [61:56] >> But a billion, a lot of [clears throat] [61:57] people get zero to a billion. [61:59] >> That's not nothing. Also very [62:02] impressive. But when you get all three, [62:04] that's what you get. [62:05] >> One of the things that I find really [62:07] interesting about your story is you [62:08] you've started what is it 75 80 [62:10] businesses. [62:10] >> Mhm. When I speak to people like Kevin [62:14] Olirri who have worked with some of the [62:15] greatest entrepreneurs to ever live like [62:17] Steve Jobs and he's [clears throat] very [62:19] familiar with Elon Musk, they talk to me [62:22] about focus. [62:23] >> Mhm. [62:24] >> And he says to me that the great thing [62:26] about Steve Jobs is he was 80% signal [62:29] and 20% noise. I.e. 80% of his time he [62:32] was focused on the most important thing [62:34] and he was brutal about not entertaining [62:36] anything else. M [62:37] >> Johnny Ives has famously said that the [62:39] one thing Steve Jobs was most known for [62:41] is his remarkable ability to focus. He [62:43] would literally ask you what have you [62:44] said no to in order to focus on the most [62:47] important thing. [62:48] >> Uh I think about Mark Zuckerberg and his [62:50] unbelievable ability to focus. I [62:52] remember uh several people at Meta but [62:54] also I think it's a public story telling [62:55] me that when he realized he was late to [62:57] mobile he refused to take any meetings [62:59] about anything other than mobile like [63:01] extreme levels of focus. [63:03] >> And then Kevin Olirri from Shark Tank [63:05] said the same to me about Elon Musk. He [63:06] says Elon Musk is the only person that I [63:07] think operates close to 100% signal [63:09] which is he and I interviewed Walter [63:11] Isaac and his biographer and he said [63:12] Elon will sit in a meeting and if people [63:15] aren't talking about something that is [63:16] the most important thing he'll [63:18] completely zone out and then the minute [63:19] he hears something that he considers to [63:21] be the most important thing it's like he [63:22] snaps into reality and he takes control [63:24] and he's deep into the detail and I it [63:27] sits in contradiction to a lot of the [63:28] the narrative of like lots of side [63:31] hustles, lots of businesses, do as many [63:33] things as you can. How do you but you've [63:35] both kind of you know you've managed to [63:37] create a life for yourself where you're [63:38] you're a millionaire and you're free in [63:40] that regard [63:41] >> but when I look at the biggest companies [63:43] in the world there's this like there [63:45] appears to be obsessive focus. [63:46] >> Yeah. [63:48] >> I love that question. I I think that all [63:51] else equal the guy who focuses more is [63:54] more likely to be a billionaire. But [63:57] back to momentum, right? The person that [64:00] keeps and has and mo maintains momentum [64:02] and has gets energy from what they do, [64:05] they're more likely to be a millionaire [64:06] by the average than the average person, [64:08] right? I I genuinely have no desire to [64:11] be a billionaire. Genuinely, if I get [64:14] there, cool. But I don't want to leave [64:16] my kids tens of millions of dollars [64:17] anyway. I know where I get most of my [64:20] energy from. I have a lot of surface [64:22] area for this. I've tried the focus. [64:23] I've tried having a board. I don't want [64:26] any of that. Genuinely, I don't. Right. [64:29] So, if my life with hyperfocused Chris [64:32] looks like billion-dollar exits, uh, [64:35] reporting to a board, uh, being chairman [64:38] of the board, being CEO, um, sitting in [64:40] meetings all day, that's miserable [64:42] Chris, right? And if I'm not going to, [64:44] if I don't want to leave a ton of money [64:45] to my kids anyway, then why am I making [64:48] Chris miserable so my fourth great [64:51] grandkids can be rich instead of just my [64:53] second great grandkids? Like that's [64:55] that's genuinely how I look at it. I'm [64:57] one of my superpowers is my my long-term [64:59] perspective, right? I think of things on [65:01] an eternal scale. And if I have to have [65:03] a miserable life so my kids in year 2300 [65:08] can still be wealthy, forget that. Like [65:11] I don't I don't I don't want them to [65:13] have all that money anyway, you know? So [65:14] I want to live an awesome life where I'm [65:16] a good and present father. And to me [65:18] that looks like focusing less, not more. [65:21] What if you focused for the next 10 [65:23] years? You made it to a billion dollars [65:25] on one thing [65:26] >> and then because you've done that you [65:28] can take even more sort of experimental [65:32] bets [65:33] >> with higher risk and more enjoyment and [65:35] more sort of pleasure ccentric bets over [65:36] the next 40 50 60 years of the rest of [65:39] your life. [65:40] >> Yeah, I just don't think that that juice [65:42] would be worth the squeeze. I think that [65:44] those bigger bets that I take will just [65:46] amount to more meetings and more travel [65:50] and more time away from my kids. And I [65:54] don't like it might sound controversial [65:56] like I'm I'm not trying to change the [65:57] world. Like I want to help people start [66:00] businesses and I can do that with my [66:01] iPhone. Uh and that will change the [66:03] world, right? But I'm not trying to [66:04] solve world hunger. I think that's [66:06] someone else's problem to solve. And so [66:08] I I just want to be a good dad and work [66:09] on really cool things. And it's been a [66:12] it's been a grind to get here, right? [66:14] Like I've had more years with zero [66:17] income than I've had up years, right? [66:20] But my up years have more than [66:22] compensated for my down years. So what [66:24] you're looking at today is the end [66:26] result of 17 years of a lot of testing. [66:29] Like a very patient wife that was [66:31] unquestioning and unwavering and [66:34] extremely loyal, which I could not have [66:36] done it without. Um, and so there were a [66:38] lot of periods in my life where I beat [66:40] myself up over that lack of focus. I [66:42] went and got my MBA because of my lack [66:44] of focus. I finished my undergrad [66:45] because of my lack of focus. Like how [66:47] getting a full-time job has never really [66:49] been off the table until the last five [66:51] or so years. So I've I've never been [66:53] unwilling to get a job or to focus. U [66:56] and I probably did it the hard way, [66:57] honestly. Um, but I'm to the point now [67:00] where I don't feel the need to focus all [67:03] on one thing. Did you ever feel guilty [67:06] because of the situation you put your [67:08] family or your partner in? [67:10] >> Yeah. [67:12] More than once. Yeah. More than many [67:14] times. [67:17] Give me an example. I spent [67:21] I spent 18 months working on a project [67:24] um [67:26] that had no cash flow along the way with [67:29] the hope of a big payout. Um, and we [67:32] were making no income, right? And I was [67:35] focused on this one thing. And that is [67:36] kind of the downside of focus is if you [67:38] focus on the wrong thing, it can really [67:40] come back to bite you, right? But to me, [67:42] this was objectively the right thing. It [67:43] was showing all the signals it was [67:44] growing. Um, we we had like a few rental [67:48] homes, we had some assets, and I was [67:50] selling those things so my family could [67:53] maintain their quality of life, right? [67:55] So I felt guilty but I was also [67:57] insulating them from feeling the the [68:01] pinch that I was feeling in the office, [68:02] right? And then at the end of that [68:04] experiment it all went to zero. I was [68:07] out money, I was out time, I was out [68:10] everything. And I felt I felt very [68:12] guilty. That was one one example. Um [68:16] but thankfully like we we didn't have to [68:18] sell our house. We didn't have to do [68:19] anything drastic. And what that looked [68:21] like at home was dad was quiet more [68:23] often than not. Dad was grumpy more [68:25] often than not, but dad wasn't really [68:28] talking freely and openly about the [68:30] things he was going through because he [68:32] was trying to, you know, put on a brave [68:34] face and insulate um the family from [68:36] that. Even when my wife was begging to [68:38] know more to get more out of me, I just [68:41] if I talk about stressors, then it [68:42] becomes more stressful to me often [68:44] times. So, I just keep it in. [68:46] >> I find the same. I think my partner [68:49] understands this of me and I tried to [68:50] explain to her that I don't like talking [68:52] about the stress because [68:53] >> in this environment you're it's actually [68:55] d-stressing me from not having to [68:56] explain and conversate about it. [68:58] >> Mhm. [68:59] >> So, which is a bit of a paradox because [69:01] then they don't really understand. [69:02] >> Yeah. [69:03] >> And if they don't understand, they might [69:05] misunderstand. Misunderstandments might [69:07] lead to arguments and the arguments [69:08] create stress and then you're going to [69:10] have to tell them in some sort of like [69:12] argument what's going on. [69:14] >> Yeah. Yeah. I've lived that for sure. I [69:16] don't know how to navigate that, but but [69:18] it's definitely true that me going [69:20] through something in work and then [69:21] having to come home and like go through [69:23] it for another hour to someone else and [69:25] stress them out potentially. [69:27] >> Yeah. [69:28] >> Doesn't feel like the right approach. [69:29] >> No, but I don't know what the right [69:31] approach is because they they have a [69:32] right to know about it as well, right? [69:34] >> I think we just need an outlet whether [69:36] it's a friend that kind of understands [69:38] or someone else that, [69:39] >> you know, is in our space that we can [69:42] just talk to about the situation. I [69:43] think having no outlet is also bad. [69:45] >> Yeah. And I'm I'm guilty of that. I I [69:48] find a lot of joy in my work and so I I [69:51] don't look at it as work often, but it's [69:53] still work, right? Like it's still [69:55] taxing. Um so I need to be better about [69:58] having an outlet. [70:00] >> Have you developed a new relationship [70:01] with rejection and failure because, you [70:04] know, starting 80 odd businesses, you [70:06] must have dealt with a lot of failure. [70:08] >> Mhm. [70:08] >> And and how does that feed into [70:10] everything we're talking about today? [70:12] Oh man, [sighs] I would I don't know [70:14] where I'd be without rejection and [70:16] failure. Um I'm not good at sales. So if [70:19] anyone's watching this and like I can't [70:21] start a business, business is all sales. [70:22] Like you don't have to be good at sales. [70:24] I'm not good at sales. I I can't think [70:26] of a business that where I had to rely [70:28] on like early customers coming from [70:30] friends and family cuz I cared a lot [70:32] about what people thought. I didn't want [70:34] to post my side hustle number 37 to [70:36] Facebook cuz I just thought my friends [70:38] would roll their eyes. So I created this [70:40] stupid constraint for me where like I [70:42] had to launch things without the help of [70:43] my ever willing friends and family [70:45] because I was too prideful, right? So I [70:47] I advise against that first of all. [70:49] Second [snorts] of all, um I served a [70:52] mission for my church. I went to Eastern [70:54] Europe for two years and I knocked doors [70:57] in Hungarian for two years straight. I [71:00] approached people on the street in [71:02] freezing weather wearing a big Russian [71:05] hat. Like I got rejected tens of [71:09] thousands of times over the course of [71:11] two years being an introvert, staying an [71:13] introvert, still an introvert, still bad [71:15] at sales, still hating sales today at [71:16] age 38, right? But that like changed me [71:20] as a man, as a person, right? That [71:23] rewired my brain to just realize that [71:26] every no is closer to a yes. If my [71:29] conversion rate is 0.1%, I got to talk [71:31] to a thousand people and I will surely [71:34] get a conversion. If I talk to a [71:35] thousand and I don't get a conversion, [71:36] then I'm going to get two conversions by [71:38] the time I get to 2,000, statistically [71:40] speaking. So, I just need to keep [71:41] getting rejected. Um, and that changed [71:44] everything for me. I think it's super [71:47] underrated to give kids a job in like [71:49] cold sales. [71:50] >> Mhm. It's what I did when I was 16 till [71:53] 19. Sounds like it's what you did [71:55] >> as a young man. Are your kids going to [71:58] do that? Yeah, hopefully. And two of my [72:01] kids are introverts, two are [72:02] extroverted, but uh they will they are [72:05] selling like they already have [72:06] businesses, little side hustles here and [72:08] there. Um but I am encouraging them to [72:10] go on missions and to do selling because [72:12] it's it's the fastest way to learn. Like [72:14] it's the fastest way to test. If I talk [72:16] to a thousand people, then I can have a [72:18] thousand different approaches and if my [72:20] conversion rate is 0.1%. Um, I'm going [72:23] to get that to 5% over time because I'm [72:25] able to test and iterate and and pivot [72:28] based on all that feedback I get. [72:30] >> What have you learned about team [72:31] building and business partners through [72:33] this process? What advice would you give [72:35] to someone who's sat there alone [72:37] listening to this right now? Do they [72:38] need a business partner? If they do, [72:40] who, how, what? Oh [sighs] man. Um, [72:45] usually people don't need a business [72:47] partner. Um, if you look at the stats on [72:50] like business failure rates with [72:54] companies that have co-founders, it's [72:56] significantly higher than companies that [72:57] have solo founders. We see the [73:00] survivorship bias examples, right? The [73:02] the Apples and the a lot of companies we [73:05] can look at that had two co-founders [73:06] that that won, but nobody talks about or [73:09] writes about the 90 60 80% of companies [73:13] that fail with co-founders. Think about [73:15] it this way. When we get married, we'll [73:17] spend years talking about our potential [73:20] plans, like big goals, like where do we [73:22] want to live? How many kids do we have? [73:24] My wife and I wanted seven kids when we [73:25] got married. We settled on four, right? [73:27] It changed over time. It took years to [73:29] change. We realized kids are actually [73:30] freaking hard, right? And we So then [73:32] we're like, where do we live? What kind [73:33] of a house do we want? We spend all this [73:35] time, maybe while we're engaged, maybe [73:37] while we're dating, maybe after we're [73:39] married. But those are big decisions, [73:42] right? But when we choose a business [73:43] partner, we go get avocado toast [73:46] together and we're like, "50-50, cool, [73:48] sounds good. Let's do this." You know, [73:49] I'll get the doc signed. It's like, who [73:51] is that guy? You might have even known [73:53] him your whole life, but who is he as a [73:55] business partner or as a business [73:56] person? I just I feel like business [73:59] partnerships are significantly harder [74:01] than marriages even. But we put 99% less [74:06] thought into like the structure of [74:08] things. And that's a giant failure that [74:10] I've made over and over again. What do [74:12] you wish someone had said to you in the [74:14] situations where it didn't work out with [74:16] business partners or really like across [74:17] the board? Because I I read that you'd [74:18] had what, seven business partners? It [74:20] says that I've had like 15. [74:22] >> Okay. So, in those 15 occasions, what is [74:25] the advice you wish someone had given [74:26] you before you engaged in those business [74:28] relationships? Yeah. Well, what do they [74:30] say about dating? It's like be a be a [74:32] good like the best way to find a good [74:34] spouse is to be a good spouse. Best way [74:36] to find a good girlfriend. You know what [74:38] I'm saying? You've got to learn more [74:39] about yourself before you partner with [74:41] someone else. Most people have no idea [74:43] like who they are as a business person [74:45] or as an entrepreneur when they partner. [74:46] They don't know what their strengths are [74:47] or their weaknesses are. They sure don't [74:49] know what the other guys strengths or [74:50] weaknesses are. So, I suggest people [74:53] solo found things to start to learn more [74:56] about themselves. Are they a visionary? [74:58] Are they an integrator, starter, [74:59] maintainer, finisher? Who are they? And [75:02] then when they want to jump into another [75:04] thing, because inevitably if we launch [75:05] one thing, we're going to launch more. [75:07] they know more about what to look for in [75:09] a partner. Um, and they can optimize for [75:12] that. What about equity? [75:15] Yeah. I mean, 50/50 is the old standby, [75:18] right? Um, could you imagine if you like [75:22] you go on a first date and it's like, [75:25] how many kids do you want? Four. Okay, [75:28] we'll have four. We'll get married and [75:30] that's how many we will have. Uh, no [75:32] matter what. That's a 50/50 partnership, [75:35] right? It's making an incredibly [75:37] important decision based on they both [75:40] equal 100. Numbers sound clean to me, [75:43] but like what is the statistical chance? [75:45] This is what needs to be true for a [75:46] 50/50 partnership to work. Okay, they [75:49] both have to be allin. They both have to [75:52] always be allin for the whole lifespan [75:54] of the business. Maybe years, maybe [75:56] decades. They have to put in the same [75:57] amount of money, same amount of effort, [75:59] same amount of connections, value, [76:01] history, background. Also, both of them [76:04] should be completely selfless, right? [76:06] And not care if the other one's not [76:08] pulling his weight. I'm taking a [76:10] month-long vacation. Cool. You'll make [76:11] up for it later. They have to be like [76:13] that chill of a human being. And of [76:15] course, like they have to be the same as [76:17] the other person. If all those things [76:19] are true, 50/50 works great. [76:21] >> And they need to develop going forward [76:23] in the same way because for the next 10 [76:25] future, [76:25] >> they need to grow at the same rate. [76:26] >> Yeah. [76:27] >> Yeah. Which will never never ever be the [76:29] case. So, I like to say like you don't [76:31] want to uh DTR, define the relationship [76:34] too early or too late. If you sit down [76:37] at brunch and you're like, "Let's do [76:38] 50/50. Cool." Big mistake. If you you're [76:41] 2 years down the line and you've got all [76:43] this revenue and customers and you're [76:45] like, "All right, we should probably [76:45] formalize this." Too late. Cuz like that [76:48] only works if the business just stays at [76:50] like a steady state forever, which it [76:53] won't. It's going to go up or it's going [76:54] to go down, right? And like things get [76:57] really ugly when either one of those two [76:59] scenarios happen. So the sweet spot in [77:02] my experience is listen, this is how [77:04] this conversation would would work. [77:05] We're going to partner together. Hey, um [77:08] I think you're going to be great for [77:09] this business because you have a sales [77:11] background. You're great at sales. You [77:12] have a lot of contacts in the industry. [77:14] I don't have any of that. I don't even [77:15] like sales. I don't know anything about [77:17] sales. But I'm an amazing engineer. Like [77:19] I know I can build this thing. You've [77:20] seen me build other websites, other apps [77:23] in the past. I already have like a [77:24] wireframe in mind. Like, we're going to [77:26] be great for this, right? So, let's just [77:29] do this. I don't know how this is going [77:31] to go. I don't know how much time you [77:32] have. We both have full-time jobs. Um, [77:35] why don't we just get to $10,000 in [77:38] revenue? Um, let's get product market [77:40] fit. Let's get some good traction. Maybe [77:42] we'll get like you really have to set a [77:44] a defined metric around it. Not like [77:46] let's see how this goes in 30 days, but [77:48] something like a revenue number, number [77:50] of customers, or something. at that [77:52] point, let's sit down. Let's just like [77:54] put it in the calendar today and let's [77:55] have a conversation about what our [77:57] equity looks like. Uh because almost [78:00] every time they're going to be remote [78:03] just based on the world we live in or [78:05] one person will put in more money or one [78:07] person has more experience. Um and all [78:10] those things are are relevant, but [78:12] >> you're going to get resentment [78:14] >> 100%. And you're probably not going to [78:16] talk about that resentment and it's only [78:18] going to get worse. um it'll only get [78:21] worse if you know things either go up or [78:24] down. So they they will always get [78:25] worse. Um but it's it's hard to define [78:28] because one person might have 30 years [78:30] of industry experience and contacts and [78:32] expertise and he can make one phone call [78:34] that changes everything and the other [78:36] person might be 18 years old and just a [78:38] hustler and willing to put in 80 hours a [78:40] week. So is the level of value the same [78:42] if the level of hours put into the [78:44] business not the same? [78:47] It's hard. Like it's it's really hard to [78:49] say, "Hey, my one phone call made us 10 [78:51] millions of dollars, tens of millions of [78:53] dollars, but you've done all the work. [78:55] You're the operator, so we should be [78:57] 50/50." They're both going to take issue [78:59] with that. The only instance I was [79:02] thinking about all the business [79:03] partnerships that I'm aware of. So [79:05] companies I've invested in. There's [79:06] about 60 or 70 companies I've invested [79:08] in and then businesses I've started [79:10] myself. And the one time I've seen it [79:13] work to split equally, the two people [79:16] had known each other for a long long [79:18] time and they were both late in their [79:22] career. M [79:23] >> so they're like you know when we think [79:24] about rate of development and potential [79:28] not only did they have a strong [79:29] relationship they'd known each other a [79:31] long time they'd worked together for [79:33] more than 5 years together and they're [79:35] sort of later in a more mature phase of [79:38] their career [79:39] >> where you know like the kids situation's [79:41] figured itself out are they going to [79:42] have kids or not and there hasn't been [79:45] some of the big life disruptors that [79:47] sometimes can come along and change [79:48] things and then I can think of another [79:50] example where um two people knew each [79:53] other. They were very, very young. [79:54] They'd worked together before. The [79:56] contract went in 50/50, although it was [79:58] never really equal. And then their rate [80:01] of growth changed wildly where one [80:03] person [80:05] >> really just like became a superstar. And [80:08] they look back at the contract and it [80:09] was 50/50. And I remember being privy to [80:11] the conversation where that person [80:12] turned around to their business partner [80:14] was like, "This is not fair." [80:15] >> Yeah. [80:16] >> This company without me goes to zero. [80:18] Without you, it keeps growing. [80:20] >> Yeah. And there was an adjustment made [80:22] to the equity at that point, which is [80:23] hard to do because of tax reasons and [80:24] stuff. But [80:25] >> yeah, the one thing I will say about a [80:27] 50/50 and going in with someone that [80:29] you've known for a long time, or going [80:30] in with your best friend, that can be [80:32] really freaking fun. Like, it can just [80:34] be the most enjoyable life ever. So, [80:37] it's just very high risk and very high [80:39] reward. And if you can make it work, [80:41] like often times the biggest and the [80:43] best and the most well-ran companies you [80:45] see were 50/50 partners that knew each [80:48] other for a long time for that reason. [80:50] Um, but the rate of failure is higher [80:52] than average. So, in these uh three [80:54] suitcases in front of me, I have [80:57] different amounts of money. [80:59] >> Mhm. [80:59] >> And all I want you to do is to let me [81:02] know if I was giving you this amount of [81:04] money, what business you would start. [81:10] Okay, so the first one [81:14] has [81:16] $500 here. [81:19] Awesome. So, most people would look at [81:20] this and think, "What am I going to do [81:22] with $500?" That's a lot of money, [81:24] right? In in the age of today with [81:26] 30-day free trials and uh a lot of [81:29] Silicon Valley funded companies willing [81:32] to give you a lot of money to test your [81:33] product, this goes a long way. So the [81:35] first thing to come to mind that comes [81:37] to mind is probably my favorite business [81:39] idea of all right now and thankfully you [81:42] can start it with even less than this [81:43] and that would be a business that helps [81:45] implement AI into small businesses small [81:48] to mediumsiz businesses. So some facts [81:50] for you there's 400 million small [81:52] businesses on the planet. They've [81:54] surveyed some of these business owners [81:57] um and 77% of them have admitted that [82:01] like AI would be transformational to [82:03] their business. They need AI. It's not a [82:05] fad. It's not going away. 5% of them [82:08] have claimed they're using AI in a [82:10] meaningful way, right? And define that [82:12] as you will. So, basically, we have this [82:14] knowledge gap, right? We know it's like [82:17] a it's like a business cognitive [82:18] dissonance, if you will. We know we need [82:20] to do something and we're not doing it. [82:22] Doesn't matter how easy the tools are. [82:24] Doesn't matter how much you can create a [82:26] new website or an app with one prompt. [82:27] Um, they need someone to do it, right? I [82:30] know how to vacuum my floor. I know how [82:32] to clean my house. I still would rather [82:34] just pay someone to do it. Okay. And so [82:36] with a fifth of the money, call it a [82:38] $100, I would start learning some vibe [82:40] coding tools. Um, Replet, Lindy, there's [82:43] a ton of them out there. [82:44] >> What is vibe coding for anyone that [82:46] doesn't? [82:46] >> Vibe coding is the non-technical person, [82:49] the non-coder such as myself using their [82:52] natural language to just say, "Hey, [82:54] build me an app that manages customers [82:57] for dog trainers." You'll have an app, [83:00] right? Is it fully functional? Is [83:02] workable yet? Not quite, but 10 to 20 [83:04] more prompts and you're good to go. [83:06] >> And for anyone that doesn't know, I I [83:07] would suggest I'm an investor in both [83:08] Lovable and Replet. So, disclaimer, but [83:10] I would recommend going on Replet or [83:12] Lovable and um typing in any website ID [83:17] you have just to have that sort of [83:18] eureka moment of watching it be made in [83:20] front of you. I think that Eureka moment [83:22] is the moment your mind expands to the [83:24] possibilities that are currently right [83:25] in front of all of us. [83:26] >> Yes. You know, we think of building [83:28] websites or apps as exclusive to those [83:30] that have spent 5 years learning to [83:31] code. That has now changed. [83:33] >> Yeah, we can all do it. Yeah. And [83:35] everyone should, like you said, one [83:37] prompt, develop an app. Oh, what do I [83:39] prompt? What do I build? Ask Chad GBT [83:40] what to build. Copy paste one of those. [83:43] Ask Chad to prompt it. Take it over to [83:45] repletter lovable, paste it, and see [83:47] what it builds. So, I would use this as [83:49] my education and also to build a [83:51] website, right? Chris's automations.com, [83:54] whatever, anything. [83:55] >> [snorts] [83:55] >> And then I would take the rest of the [83:57] money and I would put it into ads, [84:00] right? Um, preferably meta ads, Facebook [84:02] ads, and I would target local [84:05] businesses. Even though this is a global [84:06] thing, if I live in Omaha, Nebraska, I [84:08] could sell this to people in Tokyo. [84:10] Doesn't matter. I'm going to put a [84:11] radius around Omaha and my ads are going [84:14] to say, "I'm Chris and I can help put AI [84:17] into your business." I'm going to use [84:18] fifth grade words. I'm not going to use [84:21] LLM. I'm not even going to say Chad GPT. [84:23] I'm just going to say, I will make your [84:25] business more money or save your [84:27] business money with AI, just a service [84:30] business. And then I'll get on discovery [84:32] calls with these business owners and [84:33] I'll just start peppering them with [84:35] questions about their business. And over [84:37] time, I'm going to learn based on their [84:39] answers what their problems are, what [84:41] they're struggling with. Is it hiring? [84:43] Is it payroll? Is it sales? Usually, [84:44] it's going to be sales, right? And then [84:46] I'm going to take this money over here, [84:48] this $100, and go back to those apps and [84:51] start building solutions for them for [84:52] free. just to kind of implement myself [84:54] as an expert. [84:55] >> And what are you going to charge them? [84:57] >> I'm going to charge them between $500 [84:59] and $5,000 upfront one time to implement [85:03] it. And then I'm going to charge them [85:04] 20% of that amount in an ongoing basis [85:07] to maintain it and fix it as it breaks. [85:10] Let's say there's a gutter cleaning [85:12] business in Omaha, Nebraska that doesn't [85:16] want to take calls after hours. He's [85:18] with his wife watching Netflix and he [85:19] knows that's a $3,000 job. he doesn't [85:22] want to take it. So, it's going to [85:23] voicemail and they're calling someone [85:25] else that is taking it, right? So, I'm [85:27] going to build an AI voice agent for [85:29] him, which sounds really intimidating. [85:31] It feels like we have to have all these [85:32] skills. You don't. You just need to [85:33] prompt a couple tools a couple times. [85:35] I'm going to build a voice agent for him [85:37] and then I'm going to tell him to call [85:38] that agent as if he were a customer and [85:41] say, "Hey, pretend you're a customer [85:42] that needs uh gutter cleaning. You're [85:43] calling at 9:30 p.m. and just see how it [85:45] reacts." He's expecting there to be a [85:48] delay. There's really not. He's [85:49] expecting it to be dumb. It's not. He's [85:52] expecting it to need to know all about [85:53] his business. It doesn't, right? The AI [85:56] knows about gutter cleaning businesses. [85:58] Then he's sold, right? Charge him $3,000 [86:01] for that. You build it and then you [86:03] charge them, call it 500 or 600 a month [86:05] to maintain it over time. And then the [86:07] beautiful thing is you can go to every [86:08] other gutter cleaning business in Omaha [86:10] or anywhere and copy and paste that same [86:12] app and sell it to them. [86:14] >> Gotcha. So selling AI to small business [86:17] owners who are in huge demand but don't [86:19] have the time or think they need some [86:22] sort of incredible [86:24] expensive time and resource expensive [86:27] competence to understand AI when [86:29] actually AI is really really simple. [86:31] >> Yes. [86:31] >> And we see this play out over history [86:33] where there's an initial arbitrage when [86:35] a new technology comes into play. Mhm. [86:37] >> In fact, one of the call center jobs [86:40] that I had when I was very very broke [86:41] many many years ago when I was like 18 [86:43] um or [clears throat] 19 was calling [86:47] businesses from the yellow pages and [86:49] selling them Facebook ads. [86:51] >> I would call a builder on a building [86:53] site. I'd speak to Dave who's the owner [86:55] of the building company and I'd explain [86:57] Facebook ads to him over the phone and [86:59] then I'd set them up for him and manage [87:01] them for him on an ongoing basis and [87:03] just send him the leads [87:04] >> because he didn't understand Facebook [87:06] ads. And these opportunities seem to [87:07] exist [87:09] >> for years when there's a new technology [87:11] as as we're seeing with AI. [87:13] >> But the thing is with that idea and with [87:14] most ideas in my experience, we think [87:16] there's a very limited time span. But if [87:19] I were to start that business today and [87:20] just start calling, it would work. [87:21] >> Yeah, you could still do it. Yeah, I [87:23] might have more competitors, but like it [87:24] it doesn't matter. It would still work. [87:26] Interestingly, the the issue back then [87:28] was people didn't even know what [87:29] Facebook ads were. So maybe it works to [87:31] some degree better now. People have [87:34] heard the word. [87:34] >> Yeah. You were pretty early. Yeah, it [87:36] was 2015 or something. [87:38] >> So, it was it was quite rough, but it [87:40] was a business nonetheless. Yeah. [87:41] >> And there was 40 other people in the [87:42] room with me in that call center doing [87:44] it. [87:44] >> Wow. [87:45] >> So, that's the first idea you have. [87:46] >> Yeah. [87:47] >> What else? $500. What else could you do? [87:49] >> Okay. Do you want a uh you want a [87:51] physical business or an online business? [87:52] Or does it not matter? [87:53] >> What about a physical one? [87:55] >> All right. For a physical one, I would [87:58] um have you heard of dropervicing? [88:00] >> No. So the phrase drop shipping has kind [88:03] of has a bad rap and some of it for good [88:05] reason which is basically buying a [88:08] product in China uh having a website for [88:10] it and basically having the Chinese [88:13] manufacturer or the supplier ship it [88:14] directly to your customer so you don't [88:15] have to take possession of the inventory [88:17] right drop servicing is doing something [88:19] similar with a service call it a let's [88:21] call it a home service business right so [88:23] in this case it would look like um a [88:26] garage repair company that has a website [88:28] that looks like they have a physical [88:30] presence in a market, but is really just [88:32] a lead genen factory, right? And so what [88:34] you're doing is you're using Facebook or [88:36] Google ads to generate leads, kind of [88:38] like what you were doing on Facebook um [88:40] for a local business, and then you're [88:42] you're instead of just selling the leads [88:45] for $20, you're actually doing more of [88:48] the work. You're you're subcontracting [88:50] out the work to a local business that [88:52] actually repairs garage doors. They're [88:54] the fulfillment arm of the business. [88:56] You're the marketing arm of the [88:57] business. So, in essence, you have a [88:59] garage repair um business without [89:02] actually having one. Like, you don't [89:04] know anything about garage doors. You've [89:05] never been on site. You're just drop [89:07] servicing. You're you're sending all the [89:08] work to a local company to do it. [89:10] >> So, I a car repair company. I I put up a [89:14] car repair website. I use Facebook ads [89:16] to drive people towards it. When they [89:18] click to buy my my car repair, I call a [89:22] local car repair person and say, "Hey, [89:24] I've got a customer here for you. Um can [89:26] you take them?" I book the customer in. [89:29] >> They handle the car repair. I take the [89:31] payment and pay the garage. Yep. Great [89:33] question. So, let's just say in your [89:35] example, um, an oil change at at some at [89:38] Bob's car repair that doesn't have a [89:40] website is 40 bucks, which is a great [89:41] price. Your website is clean, it's nice, [89:44] they can pay with a few clicks and it's [89:46] 80 bucks, right? So, you call Bob one [89:48] day and say, "Hey, congratulations. I [89:51] have a lead. I don't have a lead. I have [89:52] a customer. I want to send you $40. Her [89:54] name is Mary. She's going to be coming [89:56] in. She has a sequoia. She needs an oil [89:58] change, right? And so Mary just [90:00] interacts with you. She's trusting you [90:02] with the money. You don't have to trust [90:03] Bob with the money. Uh you just send Bob [90:05] the money. You make even more margin [90:07] than Bob makes. Right? It's a higher [90:10] price service, but what you're charging [90:11] for is the better UI, the better user [90:14] experience, and having a a cleaner [90:16] checkout method. And is there particular [90:19] types of businesses you would target [90:20] with that approach? Are you targeting [90:21] ones that have a shitty customer [90:23] experience, bad website, etc. in the [90:25] home services, like take your pick. Um, [90:28] they pretty much all do, right? Um, [90:30] there are some more established [90:31] industries like roofing that don't have [90:33] those issues, uh, because they have [90:35] higher margins, so they can afford [90:36] better websites, but um, they pretty [90:38] much all have a bad experience. [90:40] >> Any others at that $500 level that stand [90:42] out to you? [90:44] >> Yeah, I love um, directory websites. [90:46] What's that? [90:47] >> So, Travel Velocity is a directory [90:49] website. Yelp is a directory website. [90:50] It's a website with a list of things [90:53] that helps people find answers to their [90:55] questions more easily. So, another [90:58] example of a website could be like [91:00] Wisconsin um ice suppliers.com. I don't [91:03] know if that's a website, right? Where [91:05] if I need to go buy ice for my party, [91:07] I'm going to Google ice near me. Um some [91:10] categories are so niche or so unevenly [91:13] distributed that Google Maps is not a [91:14] good solution for it. Right? So, you're [91:16] directed to these random directory [91:18] websites that are just lists of other [91:20] businesses. Um, and what people are [91:22] doing is they're proactively creating [91:24] their own directories by scraping uh [91:26] let's say every dog park in Seattle, [91:29] Washington, and putting them on a [91:30] website and then they don't they don't [91:32] even drive traffic to it. There's no [91:34] paid ads. They just wait for Google and [91:36] for SEO to do its trick. And it's very [91:39] much an 8020 rule. you could kind of [91:41] build the architecture for a directory [91:43] website with replet or lovable and then [91:45] you just copy and paste it right in [91:47] different markets. Uh so the play here [91:49] is to have dozens of directory websites [91:51] and some of them make $0 a month, some [91:53] make a few hundred, some make a few [91:55] thousand, but it's very passive. It's [91:57] like one of those rare things that's [91:58] passive yet also doesn't need a ton of [92:01] money to get to get started. [92:03] >> Where's the money coming from? Where's [92:04] the revenue? [92:06] >> Great question. You can either do like [92:07] display ads. [92:08] >> What's a display ad? just a banner ad on [92:10] a website. [92:11] >> And are you having to go and sell that [92:13] ad to someone that wants to buy it? [92:14] >> You would just take Google's like ad [92:16] network and just put it on your website. [92:18] So you don't have to do anything. [92:19] >> So you can just click a button and it'll [92:21] add adverts to your website which you'll [92:23] you'll then paid for. [92:24] >> Yep. Or you could um you could just [92:27] aggregate those leads. Like if we had [92:28] dog parks in Seattle and you know we see [92:31] on our Google Analytics that we're [92:32] driving traffic to this one dog park, [92:34] then we reach out to them proactively [92:36] and say, "Hey, you notice all these [92:38] customers you've been getting?" That's [92:39] because I put you on my website. Would [92:41] you like to pay $300 a year or a month [92:43] or whatever for priority placement? [92:45] Right? So, I like to call this [92:47] permissionless marketing. Um, you're [92:49] just proactively adding these businesses [92:51] to a website. They have nothing to lose. [92:52] You have nothing to lose. And then once [92:54] you see traffic, then you reach out to [92:56] them and say, "Hey, I've been bringing [92:57] you more business. Would you like to [92:58] start paying for that?" [93:00] >> Interesting. [93:02] And how much money can someone hope to [93:03] make if they execute that strategy well [93:05] in your view? What's realistic [93:07] >> with a directory website? It could be [93:09] tens of dollars a month and it could be [93:11] tens of thousands of dollars a month, [93:12] but we're not talking about building [93:14] another Yelp or Travel Velocity. This is [93:15] a zero employee business with that cost [93:18] almost nothing, less than $100 to start. [93:22] Um, but it's just a numbers game. You're [93:24] not really going to know what directory [93:25] really hits until months have passed and [93:28] until you have a lot of surface area for [93:30] these experiments. [93:32] I hear a lot of people talking about [93:34] vending machines online and I've always [93:37] been really curious about that. People [93:38] say you can make money from vending [93:39] machines. [93:40] >> Yeah. Could you do that with $500? [93:42] >> Absolutely. So, if we were doing another [93:43] physical business, um I would go to [93:46] Facebook Marketplace and I would find an [93:49] existing vending machine uh for $3 to [93:52] $400, right? That could be a snack or a [93:55] drink vending machine. Um often times [93:57] the expensive part of a vending machine [93:59] is the credit card reader. It can often [94:01] cost more or as much as the whole [94:03] machine itself. And then I would use a [94:04] $100 to stock the machine um with [94:07] Costco. Costco Sam's Club is where all [94:09] of these operators buy their snacks, [94:11] believe it or not. And then I just need [94:12] one business owner to give me a chance [94:15] um to allow me to put the vending [94:16] machine in his lobby. Let's say it's a [94:17] car repair business. I can say, "Hey, [94:19] I'll pay you 100 bucks a month or hey, [94:21] I'll split the revenue with you. I'll [94:23] give you 30% of the revenue." And then [94:24] once I have one, that's the hardest [94:26] part. Now you have a track record. Now, [94:28] you can say, "Hey, Bob's Auto Repair [94:30] makes $700 a month passively cuz he let [94:32] me put uh this vending machine there." [94:34] This is a business that can be passive [94:36] if you have an employee to restock it. [94:38] That is the active part of the business [94:39] is the restocking and the selling of new [94:41] locations. Um, but if you have an ATM, [94:44] then that becomes even easier because [94:46] you can outsource all of the restocking [94:48] to a cash management company. [94:50] >> How much money could one person hope to [94:52] make from a vending machine business? [94:53] And have you ever run this business [94:55] yourself? [94:55] >> I have. I've actually been in a [94:57] different part of the vertical. I've [94:58] sold vending machines. I posted a a [95:01] video to Instagram that got tens of [95:02] millions of views and we started just [95:04] importing those vending machines that I [95:06] was talking about in the video uh and [95:08] then selling them to entrepreneurs. But [95:10] the level of revenue is I mean it's as [95:13] much as you want to scale it. I have a [95:14] friend in San Diego that makes seven [95:16] figures a year uh on vending machines, [95:19] just snacks and drinks. Is there an art [95:21] to good vending machine placement or the [95:23] right things to sell in the vending [95:24] machine or anything else? [95:26] >> Yeah, it's funny that you asked that [95:27] because he said, you know, I'm in San [95:30] Diego, people are health consscious here [95:31] and he tested all these healthy concepts [95:33] and they all failed. Like people want [95:35] Doritos and Coke and Diet Coke, right? [95:38] So that's all they have now. That's [95:39] where the demand is. But the biggest [95:42] needle mover on this is the location. [95:44] And it's a matter of testing. Back to [95:46] testing, right? Testing what types of [95:48] locations he landed on. um apartment [95:50] complexes, like apartment lobbies. He [95:52] tried auto repair shops and they just [95:54] weren't high volume. But it's the type [95:57] of business kind of like directories [95:58] where if you have a 100 vending [96:00] machines, um you're going to have 20 of [96:02] them that make $3,000 a month each and [96:05] then you're going to have 80 of them [96:06] that make $400 a month each. But once [96:09] you find out what types of locations are [96:11] the most profitable, then you just start [96:13] directly reaching out to those types of [96:15] locations. [96:17] >> I've just finished writing my third [96:18] book. I haven't firmed up the title yet, [96:20] but I have started mocking up some [96:22] different designs. And I've been doing [96:24] this with Adobe Express, which is one of [96:26] our sponsors. What I love about Adobe [96:27] Express is that it makes it so easy for [96:29] me to obsess over the tiniest details. 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And make sure you visit the learn [97:15] tab to discover how you can become one [97:17] better than the rest. You know, every [97:20] once in a while you come across a [97:22] product that has such a huge impact on [97:24] your life that you'd probably describe [97:26] as a gamecher. And I would say for about [97:30] 35 to 40% of my team, they would [97:34] currently describe this product that I [97:36] have in front of me called Ketone IQ, [97:38] which you can get at ketone.com [97:40] as a game changer. But the reason I [97:42] became a coowner of this company and the [97:43] reason why they they now are a sponsor [97:45] of this podcast is because one day when [97:47] I came to work there was a box of this [97:49] stuff sat on my desk. I had no idea what [97:50] it was. Lily in my team says that this [97:52] company have been in touch. So I went [97:54] upstairs tried it and quite frankly the [97:57] rest is history in terms of my focus, my [97:59] energy levels, how I feel, how I work, [98:02] how productive I am. Game changer. So if [98:05] you want to give it a try, visit [98:06] ketone.com/stephven for 30% off. You'll [98:09] also get a free gift with your second [98:11] shipment. And now you can find Keton IQ [98:13] at Target stores across the United [98:15] States where your first shot is [98:18] completely free of charge. Um, so I have [98:21] another box here. This box [98:24] has slightly more money in double. Okay. [98:27] $1,000. What would you do with $1,000? [98:31] All right. So, [98:34] for whatever reason, when I see $1,000, [98:37] I think um about the wedding rental [98:40] business. Do you know anything about [98:42] that? [98:42] >> No. [98:43] >> So, [98:45] believe it or not, um weddings are [98:47] increasing in popularity. People are [98:48] getting out uh getting married outside [98:51] more than ever. I think like 75% of [98:53] weddings are outside now, which is [98:55] increasing every year. Um and that [98:57] increases the market for these random [98:59] one-off rentals, right? I read an [99:02] article on Reddit about a guy that built [99:04] a wedding arch from his garage with some [99:07] 2x4s, some lumber. I think he spent like [99:11] 200 or $300 to build it. And he rents it [99:14] out to weddings for like $1,000 per [99:16] wedding. And it's just a a piece of wood [99:18] for the couples to stand under as they [99:20] say, "I do." Right. And so he works with [99:23] event organizers or wedding organizers [99:24] to continually rent it to the wedding [99:26] organizer. [99:27] >> Exactly. He doesn't go through the [99:29] brides. He goes through the wedding [99:30] planners because surface area they have [99:32] they're touching all kinds of weddings [99:34] on a regular basis. To find these [99:36] wedding planners, you go to the knot, [99:38] you go to zola, wedding wire, you scrape [99:41] them and all of their phone numbers and [99:43] emails and names and businesses are on [99:45] the website for everyone to see and you [99:47] just start reaching out. And one contact [99:49] could be one wedding a week. So that [99:52] could be started that could be in the [99:53] $500 box, right? [99:55] >> You could [clears throat] spend $300 on [99:58] supplies. You could spend $100 on [100:02] scraping all the emails quite cheaply. [100:05] Um, and then you could spend $100 on gas [100:09] and then or let's say another $100 on [100:12] renting a truck and trailer from Home [100:14] Depot. Say you have a car. Say you don't [100:15] have a car, right? You've got $400 left [100:18] over to go to a nice meal or to uh or [100:21] for Facebook ads. [100:23] So, photo walls are very popular. [100:26] shakuerie carts where wedding uh patrons [100:30] can make their own shakuderie board. Um [100:33] you can do like custom pizzas at [100:35] weddings. You could do wedding arches. [100:37] Um there's a lot of different [100:39] opportunities there. [100:41] >> Weddings and funerals. [100:43] >> Yeah, cuz everything you said there [100:45] could also apply to funerals. [100:47] >> That's true. [100:47] >> They don't seem to be stopping either. [100:50] >> Guess funerals are going to get more [100:51] popular with the population. [100:53] >> Yep. [100:53] >> Continuing to increase. [100:56] What else? So, wedding rentals is the [100:58] first one you do with $1,000. Anything [100:59] else? [101:00] >> Yeah. Should we do a an online one? [101:02] >> Sure. [101:03] >> So, there's a lot of people nowadays [101:05] making money with local email [101:07] newsletters. [101:08] >> Are you very familiar with that? [101:10] >> No. [101:10] >> So, basically what you do, we keep [101:13] coming back to this is like a big ad for [101:14] Facebook, right? I swear it's not. [101:16] >> But, um, people are using local Facebook [101:19] ads. Um, let's say you live in Boise, [101:21] Idaho. There's 200,000 people there. You [101:23] post a Facebook ad that says, "Hey, find [101:25] out what's happening in Boise, Idaho. [101:27] One email per week in your inbox. You [101:30] can acquire a subscriber for about 50 [101:33] cents from Facebook or Instagram." Okay, [101:37] let's call it a dollar to be to be more [101:39] conservative. Acquire a subscriber for a [101:41] dollar. If you sell ads inside that [101:44] email newsletter, you can charge about [101:46] 50 cents per month um per subscriber. [101:51] So, if we had $1,000, [101:55] I would use a free trial for an email [101:57] newsletter software like Beehive or [101:59] ConvertKit or any of those. And so, I've [102:02] already spent $0. And I would give all [102:05] $1,000 to Meta. I would set a defined [102:08] radius in a local area. Preferably, it's [102:10] where you live, but it doesn't have to [102:11] be. It could be on the other side of the [102:12] world. I've launched this. I tested this [102:14] in New Mexico, and it worked. I'd spend [102:16] $1,000 to acquire a,000 subscribers. Um, [102:19] and then I would start sending them [102:21] weekly newsletters. What's happening in [102:22] Boise, Idaho? Um, discounts in Boise, [102:25] Idaho. News in Boise, Idaho. I would not [102:28] use Chad GPT to write it. I would write [102:29] it myself in my own natural language, [102:31] whether I'm a good writer or not. [102:33] >> Why? [102:33] >> Cuz it needs to feel personal. It needs [102:35] to feel like a local is writing it. Not [102:38] like an author, not like Chad GBT. Um, [102:40] and then I would use those same [102:42] subscribers to source sponsors. [102:45] So Bob's car repair owner is potentially [102:49] in your list. There are 10% of all [102:51] adults are business owners, right? So if [102:53] I have a thousand email subscribers, 100 [102:55] of them are going to be business owners [102:56] are going to be potential sponsors to my [102:58] newsletter. So after a month or so, I'm [103:00] going to put send out an email that [103:02] says, "Hey, your ad here. I'd love to [103:04] sponsor your business. It's a very [103:06] relevant market. It costs $500 uh per [103:09] send to send your email." Um, so then if [103:12] I spend $1,000 to acquire these [103:14] customers, I will get that money back [103:17] within two months because I'm I'm making [103:20] $500 a month. 50 cents per subscriber [103:23] from a,000 newsletter subscribers. And [103:26] that can scale um as much as you want. [103:28] If Boise, Idaho is only so big, you copy [103:30] and paste the template in another city [103:32] or a bigger city. Okay, let's move up [103:35] then. This [103:37] This briefcase has a lot more money in [103:41] it. [103:41] >> Mhm. [103:43] $5,000. What side hustle do you start if [103:47] you've got $5,000? [103:49] Okay. So, if we've got a sliding scale [103:53] of active to passive income, the closer [103:55] you get to this to $5,000, the more [103:58] realistic the passive income becomes. [104:00] Okay. So, I'm going to go closer to [104:02] that. Um, [104:05] I love RV parks. [104:07] >> What's an RV park? [104:09] >> An RV park is one of two things. It's a [104:13] place for someone to live in full-time [104:14] for months or years at a time where they [104:16] live in an recreational vehicle in an [104:18] RV. [104:19] >> A camper van. [104:19] >> A camper van. It could be a fixed income [104:22] uh retired person. It could be a [104:24] bluecollar worker. It could be a a [104:27] digital nomad. Right? That's kind of the [104:28] three categories. Um, the other type of [104:31] RV park is a a recreational, like a more [104:34] short-term RV park that might be right [104:36] outside of the Grand Canyon or, you [104:38] know, a popular tourist destination [104:40] where people are staying one to four [104:41] nights at a time, right? This is a [104:44] business I've been in for about 7 years [104:46] now. They have very small RV parks out [104:48] there that are 3 to 10 pad sites that [104:53] are about 3 to 10 times more profitable [104:55] than buying a single family home as a [104:57] rental. Okay. So, I genuinely I don't [105:00] understand why people buy single family [105:02] homes because like buying a small RV [105:05] park costs the same but is significantly [105:08] more profitable and more flexible [105:11] because you have your your risk is more [105:13] distributed amongst five to 10 tenants [105:15] as opposed to one tenant that could go [105:17] bankrupt or disappear in the middle of [105:18] the night. So, with this $5,000, [105:21] um, I would call every small RV park in [105:26] my area, preferably within a three-hour [105:28] drive. I would just find them on Google [105:30] Maps. This would take a little more time [105:31] because we can't allocate any of this [105:33] budget to the finding of the park. We've [105:36] got to do that very manually with the [105:37] our iPhone and our internet connection. [105:39] Okay. I'm going to find, in my [105:42] experience, for every 100 parks I find, [105:45] about two or three of them can be a [105:46] really good deal. Okay. So, if I get a [105:49] 100 people on the phone, I I know I can [105:50] find one good deal from that with seller [105:52] financing because we can't use any of [105:54] this to buy the park either. Got a lot [105:56] of constraints. I'm going to use uh [105:59] let's say [106:01] 2,000 of these dollars um for my due [106:04] diligence. I've got to get inspections [106:06] on the park. I've got to get a title [106:08] policy on the park to make sure it's not [106:10] a scam to make sure that the owner who [106:12] says they own it actually owns it. Um, [106:15] and then with the remainder of the [106:17] money, I need some operating capital. I [106:21] need to be able to pay the power bill to [106:22] maybe trim some trees to get the park [106:25] looking nice on day one. And then to [106:27] actually buy the park, I need to set up [106:29] creative financing with the seller. And [106:31] the best way you can do that is by [106:32] building a relationship with the seller, [106:34] building some trust with them, um, [106:36] showing them that you're going to take [106:37] good care of the park. Now, the unit [106:39] economics on this, let's say you buy a [106:41] park for $200,000. [106:43] In the real estate world, they're valued [106:45] on a cap rate basis, which is the profit [106:48] of the park divided by the asking price [106:51] of the park. So, if I buy a park for a [106:55] 10% cap rate, that means it's going to [106:58] make $20,000 a year of profit and it's [107:01] going to cost me $200,000. Okay? So, [107:04] that park probably has no website. It [107:08] probably has way undermarket rents. It [107:10] probably has occupancy issues because [107:12] they're it has no website. They're not [107:14] doing anything. So, I'm going to get the [107:17] park to perform by literally posting ads [107:22] on Facebook Marketplace, free ads, [107:23] making a free website with a vibe coding [107:26] app and um and increasing the occupancy. [107:29] And that $20,000 a year goes to $30,000 [107:33] a year and the park is worth an 8% cap [107:36] rate. You bought it undervalued at 10%. [107:39] So it's now at $3, I don't know, $60,000 [107:43] park that you paid $200,000 for. So you [107:45] can either sell it or you can just [107:48] manage it um and enjoy the profits. [107:50] >> When you said seller financing, what [107:52] what does that mean? [107:53] >> That means the seller is holding the [107:56] note. They are bearing the risk of you [107:58] buying the park, but what's in it for [108:00] them is a they can get the park back if [108:04] you default. [108:05] >> Okay. So, they're not actually giving [108:06] you the park up front. They're letting [108:08] you have it today on the basis that [108:10] you'll pay them in the future with [108:11] profits you make. [108:13] >> Exactly. So, you're making monthly [108:14] payments to them. Um because often times [108:17] they're going to take that money that [108:18] you give them and they're going to have [108:20] to invest it in something else, [108:21] something they don't understand. So, [108:22] your pitch to them is, "Hey, you know [108:24] this park better than anyone, right? you [108:26] know what I can do to fix it. You know [108:28] what the deficiencies are. If for some [108:30] reason I'm not who I say I am, you just [108:32] get it back. You take it back and you [108:33] where you started and you keep all the [108:35] money that I've paid you some so far. [108:36] >> How much money have you made from doing [108:38] this? [108:39] >> I've made net profit [108:43] probably 4 to $600,000 [108:45] >> revenue. [108:46] >> I would say between 3 and 4 million a [108:48] year [108:50] >> with these RV parks [108:51] >> and mobile home parks as well. Yeah. How [108:53] many of them? [108:54] >> I've been involved with 35 or so over [108:57] the last seven years. [109:01] >> What a bad business. [109:02] >> No, I mean, you're capitalizing on baby [109:04] boomers retiring and on millennials [109:06] traveling and on Yeah, it's just it's a [109:09] growing market. People are getting [109:10] outside more. [109:11] >> Yeah. What What are the macro things you [109:13] you think about at the moment when [109:15] you're trying to decide on a new side [109:16] hustle or a new business to start? Are [109:18] there like obvious macro things that [109:20] happening that we should all be thinking [109:21] about? you just can't ignore AI. Like [109:23] whatever you're doing, AI has to be part [109:25] of it. So I like the the framework of [109:28] implementing new AI tools into old [109:30] businesses. And I like the framework [109:34] that 10,000 um baby boomers are retiring [109:38] every single day and that will be the [109:39] case for the next 5 to 10 years. What's [109:41] the opportunity there [109:42] >> to either buy the businesses or to [109:45] implement AI into the businesses? Um [109:48] those are the two biggest opportunities [109:49] I see. That's true. [109:50] >> Get them to give you the business. So, [109:51] and you run it better in a more digital [109:53] way. [109:54] >> Yeah. And you pay them off for that [109:56] business when you've made profit from [109:58] it. If you don't make the profit, they [109:59] get their business back. [110:00] >> Yes. Now, I will say finding seller [110:02] financing on a business is harder than [110:05] on a piece of real estate. Um, but it is [110:08] possible. [110:09] >> Of all the businesses you you've [110:11] started, which one has been most [110:12] profitable? [110:14] >> And was the easiest? [110:16] >> Oh, man. So, like what is the winner? [110:19] >> I would say either um [clears throat] my [110:22] RV parks business or my my Texas snacks [110:26] business, my e-commerce business. Um and [110:30] they weren't easy because they're easy [110:31] businesses or industry industries. [110:33] They're easy because I had matured [110:37] enough to a point to find [110:40] good operators to run those businesses [110:42] where I had little to no involvement in [110:44] them. Does that make sense? [110:45] >> Yeah. You found people to run them for [110:47] you so that as a starter they didn't die [110:50] the minute you got bored. [110:51] >> Exactly. Whereas [110:52] >> they carried on growing and evolving. [110:54] >> Right. Whereas those are both quite hard [110:55] industries. E-commerce is quite hard and [110:57] uh and real estate is as well. But I had [111:00] good operators. [111:01] >> What have you learned about finding good [111:03] operators? [111:06] H. [111:07] Oh man, [111:10] it all comes down to [111:14] trust. How much trust am I able to put [111:17] in them? How much trust do I have them? [111:19] I've found a um a direct correlation [111:22] between people I know really well um and [111:25] people that have made really good [111:26] operators. [111:27] >> How do you incentivize them? [111:29] >> Directly from the profits of the [111:31] business [111:32] >> so that they feel more like a [111:34] entrepreneur. they've got more of a of a [111:35] piece of the pie. [111:36] >> Yeah, I made the mistake in my 20s of [111:40] dangling a carrot of equity too often. [111:42] Genuinely meaning it like but it most [111:45] equity goes to zero period. Um I put a [111:49] lot more emphasis on cash flow now in my [111:51] 30s than I do on equity. I think equity [111:54] is overrated. And so nowadays, I'm less [111:57] likely to give an operating partner [111:58] equity, not because I don't think they [112:00] deserve it, but because it's more likely [112:02] to go to zero, and I'm more likely to [112:04] cut them in on the profits so they can [112:06] get paid ongoing [112:08] >> on an annual basis or quarterly basis, [112:10] etc. [112:10] >> Quarterly. Yeah. [112:11] >> Interesting. H [clears throat] is there [112:14] any side hustles that you've heard about [112:15] that you wish you'd started? [112:18] >> It's funny because a lot of the ones [112:20] that I wish I started, I started. Like a [112:21] lot of the 80 that I've done, I just [112:23] it's something that I thought about for [112:25] 2 weeks. I can't get it out of my head. [112:26] And I just I have to get it out of my [112:28] head. And so if I start something and it [112:30] fails, [112:31] I don't really care because I don't [112:32] invest a lot of money into it. And I [112:34] answered the question. I don't have to [112:35] like stay up at night wondering if that [112:37] thing would have worked anymore. [112:38] Sometimes I'll like run these tests on [112:40] Facebook that show me such amazing [112:42] results that just kind of unlock an [112:46] opportunity for me. Can I give you an [112:47] analogy? [112:48] >> Yeah. [112:48] >> Have you ever been deep sea fishing? Uh, [112:50] not deep sea fishing. No. [112:52] >> Okay, so here's a real story. I was out [112:54] deep deep sea fishing and we were just [112:57] throwing lures and we weren't getting [112:58] any any uh bites and the captain reaches [113:02] in under the seat and he pulls out [113:04] straws from McDonald's, McDonald's [113:06] straws specifically because they have [113:08] red and yellow stripes along the side of [113:10] them and he pulled out scissors and he [113:12] started cutting them into fourths. And [113:14] then he he took the hook off the line [113:16] and he he put the string through the [113:18] straw and then he tied the hook back on. [113:21] He's like, "I know, seems crazy. Just [113:23] stick with me." And we casted it out and [113:24] we started getting bites. And I'm like, [113:26] "What is it was the same place with the [113:29] same lure, same hook with just a straw." [113:32] And I'm like, "What? Why does this [113:33] work?" And he's like, "It's the colors. [113:36] It's like the white and the red and and [113:39] it just spins as you reel it in and it [113:41] it mimics a fish." And I was like, "How [113:43] did you learn this? Like what made you [113:45] think to try this?" He's like, "I don't [113:46] know. Uh maybe alcohol was involved. I [113:49] don't know." But like that worked and we [113:51] started catching fish the rest of the [113:52] day. So it just got me thinking like [113:55] entrepreneurship is this massive ocean [113:57] with millions of varieties of fish, [113:59] billions of fish, some sharks, some [114:01] minnows. And so many of us go out there [114:04] and we cast a few times and we just go [114:05] back home. We're like, "Entreneurship [114:06] doesn't work. It's not for me. Back to [114:08] the 9 to5." But we're not testing enough [114:10] stuff. There's different depths. There's [114:12] different baits. We could spray [114:14] something on it to make it smell [114:15] different. We could put a McDonald's [114:16] straw on it. And occasionally we'll find [114:18] something. We'll get a bite. And maybe [114:20] we won't get another bite for another [114:22] hour, but the bite is a signal. And it's [114:23] like, oh, there's something there. Okay, [114:26] let's try that again, but try this. Or [114:27] maybe let's just cast a 100 more times. [114:29] And then you get a fish. And then you [114:30] get a bigger fish. And like the more [114:32] you're out there, not just focusing on [114:34] one type of fishing, but increasing your [114:37] surface area and trying all kinds of [114:38] different things, the more you learn. [114:41] Like the more you you test and like now [114:43] you have a bunch of sharks in the boat [114:44] and you have this and you have this and [114:45] you have all these options at your [114:47] disposal. We're eating shark tonight. [114:48] We're eating grouper. We're eating [114:49] snapper. You have this amazing life [114:52] that's dynamic and full of color and all [114:53] these other awesome things are coming [114:55] into play because you stayed out there [114:57] and you didn't just do one thing, you [114:59] tried all these other things. So that's [115:01] how I look at business. Like I'm out [115:02] there on the ocean testing other things [115:04] and even if I don't catch anything, it's [115:06] fun. And uh I think other people should [115:08] try that too. [115:10] A lot of people want sexy stuff, don't [115:11] they? They want to build the next [115:13] Facebook or they want to do the a chat [115:15] GPT or the AI app that does this, that, [115:17] and the other. Do you think that's in [115:20] part a trap for for the average person [115:22] to be aiming at sexy? Yeah. Because the [115:25] fact that everyone wants sexy means the [115:27] fact that the sexy things are the most [115:28] competitive. It's the exact reason why [115:31] we should go as unsexy as possible [115:33] because no one's looking at it. [115:37] And looking forward, Chris, what is um [115:39] is there anything that you're mulling [115:41] over now in terms of new business ideas [115:42] that you could give me? [115:44] >> Man, I lately it's been about like stuff [115:47] I can launch with my content. Um I like [115:50] I love the phrase unfair advantage, [115:53] right? I will only start businesses [115:55] today where I have an unfair advantage. [115:58] Everyone has an unfair advantage in [116:00] something, right? Even a a 13-year-old [116:02] has an unfair advantage. they might know [116:04] roadblocks better than anyone, right? So [116:07] unfair advantage is not, you know, only [116:09] for the rich or the wealthy or the elite [116:10] or the most experienced or the PhDs, [116:12] right? So I try to start businesses [116:15] where I have an unfair advantage and [116:16] that might be because I can grow it with [116:18] my content. It might be because I have a [116:20] bunch of friends in that space or I have [116:21] a unique knowledge or insight into that [116:23] space. So if I have a zillion ideas and [116:26] a spreadsheet a mile long with a bunch [116:28] of business ideas, the ones I'm most [116:30] likely to start are the ones where I [116:31] have an unfair advantage. a right to [116:33] win. [116:33] >> Yeah. [116:35] >> I have this phrase called mirage [116:36] opportunity [116:38] >> which um which I use when I look at an [116:42] industry that never seems to work for [116:45] anybody but seems so obvious. [116:47] >> Mhm. [116:48] >> Do you know what I'm saying? [116:48] >> Yeah, I do. I'm thinking of something. [116:50] Yeah. And I this has been a bit of a a [116:52] way for me to know what not to work on [116:54] is if I see everybody trying to solve [116:56] this particular problem and nobody's [116:58] been successful yet more and more people [116:59] are plowing in and yet it seems obvious [117:00] to me I just stay away from it [117:02] >> because there's something in my [117:05] understanding of consumer behavior or [117:08] current alternatives that I'm like [117:10] misunderstanding. [117:11] >> Mhm. An example I'll give you. [117:14] Everyone at the moment is trying to [117:16] start a So this is the first the sort of [117:19] first principles they're reasoning up [117:20] from. They're saying people are more [117:21] lonely than ever before. They're saying [117:25] there's no clear place to organize a [117:28] group of people. WhatsApp has its um has [117:31] its limitations, its restrictions, [117:33] doesn't have the feature set one would [117:34] like. Facebook groups aren't working for [117:36] a certain generation of people anymore [117:38] for for sort of Gen Z's and younger [117:39] generations, millennials. So, what I'm [117:41] going to do is I'm going to make an app [117:43] for groups. Mhm. Your run club, your [117:46] friends, your piano recital group, your [117:49] your entrepreneurs. We're going to build [117:50] all the group features into this app and [117:52] it's going to be dedicated to that. I've [117:54] heard this pitch over and over again. [117:55] I've seen all of them. None of them seem [117:57] to have any traction or work. [117:58] >> It's a mirage. Something fundamental [118:00] about your assumptions is off. [118:02] >> Yeah. When I said mirage opportunities, [118:05] did you think of anything in particular? [118:06] >> I stay away Yeah. Just I stay away from [118:09] businesses where where I I don't know [118:11] why it's not working, but clearly it's [118:12] not working. [118:13] >> Yeah. I think of banking or healthcare, [118:15] right? Like banking is terrible. Like [118:17] look at the UI at Bank of America. It's [118:18] why is it it's like h it's probably like [118:21] that for a reason, right? Or like [118:23] Amazon's UI is terrible. It's like what [118:24] is it? It's like they probably know why [118:26] it looks like that, right? I assume [118:28] they're smarter than I am. One idea that [118:29] I thought of is like everyone hates [118:31] typing in their password a zillion times [118:32] a day. So you have like these password [118:34] managers, but I've seen a dozen [118:36] companies that are like going to fix the [118:37] password, right? Some like replacement [118:40] to a password and they've all failed and [118:42] it's probably because it's it's a really [118:43] hard problem to solve and I don't want [118:45] to try to invest in a person that's [118:46] trying to solve it cuz statistics are [118:48] not on their side. Another one that [118:50] comes to mind for me is at university [118:52] every entrepreneurial college kid [118:54] decides that they're going to build a [118:55] onampus what's going on app to let [118:58] everybody know what's going on on [118:59] campus. [119:00] >> Yeah. [119:00] >> And they never seem to work. [119:02] >> Yeah. And I think the reason why they [119:04] don't work is because both you're losing [119:06] 33% of your potential customers every [119:08] year and gaining 33% new customers every [119:10] year. So you have a bit of an [119:11] acquisition problem, but then also [119:12] people don't decide what they're going [119:14] to do based on some notice board. They [119:15] decide based on their dorm room friends [119:18] and where they're going and where the [119:19] girl they like is going. [119:20] >> And you and so it's not really about [119:22] what's going on. It's like what does my [119:24] group of people want to do. I think [119:25] that's I think that's the mirage in [119:28] that. Well, I thought of another example [119:30] that's like building apps around [119:32] podcasting. [119:33] >> Oh my god. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. [119:34] >> I have a friend that he had a podcast. [119:36] >> It's a great one. [119:37] >> That helped podcasters, right? And it [119:39] was great. Like really I listen to it [119:42] and he he realized over time like I'm [119:44] selling to a market that quits, right? [119:47] I'm asking for customers to pay for my [119:49] thing that are statistically like 95% of [119:51] them are going to quit within 6 months. [119:53] So it's just a broken market to sell to. [119:56] And then the 5% that are successful, [119:58] what percentage of them are actually [119:59] profitable? What percentage of them can [120:01] afford to pay for an expensive agency or [120:03] software? Very few [120:07] mirage opportunities. I like that. I I [120:10] would Yeah, it's a it's been a really [120:11] useful framework because it's the [120:13] obvious ones that no one's doing, but [120:14] there's clearly a huge opportunity that [120:16] I think pulls people in the most. But [120:19] for me now with the with the amount of [120:21] time I've spent starting businesses, [120:23] those are the ones that push me away the [120:25] most. [120:25] >> Yeah. Well, it all comes back to the [120:27] value of just copying what's already [120:29] working. [120:30] >> Amen. Is there anything we haven't [120:32] talked about that we should have talked [120:32] about, Chris? For young and old people [120:35] that are considering starting their own [120:37] business, their own side hustle, [120:39] building passive income. [120:42] Many of the people that think they want [120:43] to be an entrepreneur, they just like [120:45] the idea of it and they think there's [120:47] freedom in entrepreneurship when [120:49] oftentimes it's even more of a prison [120:50] than their 9 to5. [laughter] [120:52] >> It can be at least in the first years, [120:54] not months, not years, sometimes [120:56] decades, right? And so I want people to [120:59] answer the question for themselves. Is [121:01] this for me? So they don't regret. [121:05] They need to find out if they love the [121:06] idea of it or they like the actual [121:08] day-to-day grind of it. um because they [121:11] they probably won't, but I want them to [121:14] find out. [121:15] >> Such an important point because the [121:17] narrative online at the moment is, you [121:18] know, be your own boss, etc., etc. And I [121:21] I just I don't think people I'm speaking [121:24] for myself here. I don't want to speak [121:25] for you, but I don't think people [121:26] realize how many people I have to answer [121:28] to. [121:28] >> Oh, yeah. [121:28] >> I have all of my team members, which is [121:30] hundreds of people. Then I have my [121:31] investors. I have my suppliers, my [121:33] clients. So, it's not like I'm living as [121:36] a free man. [121:37] >> Yeah. I'm less free now than I was [121:40] before. [121:41] >> Yeah. [121:42] >> When I started all this stuff, [121:43] >> isn't it nice when someone just also [121:45] just tells you what to do and exactly [121:47] what path to take? [121:48] >> Yeah. [121:48] >> Like my wife does that. She's like, [121:50] "Hey, I need you to do this." It's like, [121:52] "Oh, it's so nice. I don't have to like [121:54] think like thank you." You know, so I [121:56] have bosses in other areas of my life [121:58] and it's really nice. Like there's [121:59] something to be said for a 9 to5. And [122:01] some people have no desire to even test [122:03] an entrepreneurship. Great. All power to [122:04] you, but I want people to test it. And I [122:07] think, you know, people would look at [122:08] someone like me or you and think, oh, [122:10] you know, they've got total freedom. But [122:12] this is just not the case. Even for me [122:13] as a podcaster, you know, I'm now kind [122:15] of somewhat [122:17] constrained by the fact that I need to [122:19] publish on a Monday and I need to [122:20] publish on a Thursday and that means [122:21] lots of other work takes place [122:23] throughout the week and [122:24] >> um I can't just go to Hawaii and chill [122:26] out and spend a month off and then I've [122:28] got all my clients now and the team [122:29] members, etc. So, I'm I'm I think I'm [122:32] starting a bit of a war against this [122:33] idea that [122:35] >> independence and total freedom. [122:37] >> Yeah. [122:38] >> Is both something to aim for but also [122:40] like realistic [122:42] >> when you're pursuing something you love. [122:43] >> Yeah. [122:44] >> I think a generation have been sold this [122:45] idea of independence. And I don't think [122:46] it's gotten us anywhere. Yeah. [122:47] >> Like that. That's the goal. Freedom, [122:49] independence. Don't depend on anybody. [122:50] >> Right. But when I look on your your [122:52] life, you've got four kids, you've got [122:55] lots of responsibility, you've got [122:56] employees, you've got businesses, you've [122:59] got so much dependency [123:02] and that's probably the source of much [123:03] of your happiness. [123:04] >> Yeah, exactly. My quote of this year is [123:07] there are no solutions, only trade-offs. [123:10] >> Entrepreneurship is not a solution. [123:12] You're trading something for it. The [123:13] question is, is that trade-off worth it [123:15] or not? And we won't know until we try [123:17] it. [123:18] >> And what's the trade-off you're making? [123:20] stability, um, lack of volatility. Um, [123:25] yeah, predictability. My life has been [123:27] volatile and unpredictable. Um, but the [123:29] more I do it, the more predictable it [123:31] becomes in a good way. Uh, but that's [123:33] been the trade-off is the mental load of [123:36] not knowing where my paycheck's coming [123:39] from or if it's coming at all. [123:42] >> It's not for the faint-hearted. [123:44] >> No. [123:46] Chris, we have a closing tradition where [123:48] the last guest leaves a question for the [123:49] next not knowing who they're leaving it [123:50] for. And the question left for you, I [123:52] love this question for obvious reasons, [123:53] is during your interview with Steven [123:55] today, what is one thing he did that you [123:57] genuinely appreciated. [124:04] I would say that I [124:10] I appreciate that the questions you [124:12] asked me got me to look at the things [124:17] I've been looking at in one way [124:18] completely differently. I came into this [124:20] conversation, [124:23] you know, looking at things in a [124:25] specific way in in ways that I always [124:26] have, but your questions got me to [124:28] approach it from a different angle. um [124:31] that made me learn something more about [124:34] my own story, if you will. [124:37] >> And what was that in particular? Was [124:39] there a specific thing you're you're [124:41] thinking about? [124:42] >> Maybe just the overall framework that [124:47] maybe it's just recency biased, but [124:52] just that it's it's not for everyone. [124:55] It's not for everyone. Um, and that we [124:59] just need to learn if the trade-offs are [125:00] worth it. [125:02] >> There's an element of your personal [125:04] trauma, experiences, upbringing, [125:07] insecurities, toxic fuel that makes the [125:10] trade-offs worth it makes you in some [125:13] respect unreasonable, [125:14] >> unrealistic, willing to take the risk. [125:17] And we don't talk about that enough [125:18] because we're not able to go into [125:19] people's trauma and the nuance of their [125:21] life and childhood and what their dad [125:22] said to them and what the how they were [125:24] bullied [125:24] >> to be able to like [125:27] trans transmit into their mind to make [125:29] that to figure that out for themselves. [125:31] But I think probably is in both your [125:33] life and my life. I mean you we both I [125:35] think have ADHD to some degree and we [125:38] have a brainwire in a certain way. So [125:40] it's not it can seem like we're making a [125:43] choice but I it often doesn't feel like [125:46] that for me. [125:47] >> Doesn't feel like I'm making a choice. [125:48] It feels like there is no other choice. [125:50] >> Yeah. [125:50] >> In the same way that one might make a [125:52] choice to get a 9 toive job. [125:55] >> I have I I I think for me that would be [125:58] a terrible thing. [125:59] >> Yeah. [125:59] >> And vice versa probably. [126:01] >> Yeah. Well, what you just said just [126:03] brought up a memory. I don't know if [126:04] it's relevant to this or not, but you [126:06] said ADHD. When I was in undergrad, I [126:08] got tested for ADHD. And the [126:11] psychiatrist said, um, it was a big [126:14] report. I'm summarizing it to the only [126:16] sentence that I remember, but she said [126:18] that I just had delusions of grandeur, [126:21] right? Uh, it wasn't like an official [126:23] diagnosis. It was one line in like an [126:25] eight-page document, but I saw that just [126:27] like bounce off the page and I was like, [126:30] how do you know that's a delusion? [126:32] Right? Like it's only a delusion if [126:34] enough time has passed so we could look [126:35] back and say, "Yeah, he was wrong. He [126:37] was way off base." [126:38] >> By delusions of grandeur, what does she [126:41] mean? [126:41] >> She means like I had unrealist [126:44] unrealistic expectations about how my [126:46] life would turn out. Um, and that that [126:49] was causing strife in my personal [126:51] relationships. [126:53] And I thought it was wrong. I still [126:55] think it was wrong. But it it put a chip [126:57] on my shoulder. It planted a seed that I [126:59] never forgot. I have that printed. It's [127:01] in my my drawer at work. Um, [127:03] >> what does he say? [127:05] >> Just I just have like literally the [127:07] report that she gave me back in 2009. [127:10] Uh, it's like highlighted and drawn up [127:12] in in my in my drawer at work and I just [127:14] look at it sometimes for motivation [127:15] because what what is a delusion of [127:18] grandeur? Like I have plans of grandeur. [127:20] This is a plan. Um, and so I think about [127:23] her sometimes. She probably has no idea [127:24] who I am. She probably forgot all about [127:26] me. Uh [127:29] >> if people want to learn more, where's [127:31] the best place they should go to to [127:34] check your work out? You've got your [127:35] podcast on YouTube. [127:36] >> Mhm. [127:37] >> Um it's not necessarily a podcast in the [127:38] same way that this is a podcast. It's [127:40] much more sort of practical and specific [127:42] around specific subject matter. So I [127:43] highly recommend people go check that [127:44] out. I'm going to link it below and put [127:46] it on the screen. But where else? [127:47] Where's a good place to get in touch [127:48] with you or to consume your work? [127:50] >> Probably tkopod.com [127:53] as in [127:53] >> tkopod.com. The kerner office. It's just [127:55] like my main website. [127:58] >> And people can sign up here for your [128:00] newsletter. [128:00] >> A newsletter. Yep. [128:02] >> One email per week. [128:03] >> What do you send out? [128:05] >> Like a very tactical guide on how to [128:07] start X, Y, or Z business. And I ask my [128:10] audience like what they want to learn [128:11] about. So they tell me and then I dive [128:13] deep and then break it all down for [128:15] them. I'll link that as well below for [128:16] anyone that's interested. What is the [128:18] most popular, most frequent request you [128:21] get through that website [128:22] >> on business ideas to talk about? Yeah, [128:25] >> probably the AI agency, the AI [128:29] implementation agency idea that I talked [128:31] about. [128:31] >> And what is the most viral video you've [128:33] ever made? [128:34] >> Oh man, that was about a um just this [128:38] Chinese street vendor that sold ice [128:41] cream. She had this little uh [128:43] contraption. It was like a frozen [128:45] cylinder that she poured cream over and [128:47] it would scrape off ice cream in this [128:50] really visually appealing way. And so I [128:52] I basically broke down in 30 seconds [128:54] like you could pay $200 for this, you [128:57] could post it at any given street corner [128:59] and you could make $1,000 by the end of [129:00] the day. So it's like A B C here's how [129:03] to get to this revenue. Um and like 30 [129:06] or 40 million people saw it. [129:07] >> I'll put the uh the video on the screen [129:09] for anyone that's interested in that as [129:10] well, just so you know what this ice [129:12] cream contraption is. [129:13] >> Yeah. [129:14] >> Chris, thank you so much. [129:15] >> Thank you so much for for being yourself [129:16] in every respect. You teach me that [129:19] there's many ways to skin a cat. As the [129:20] saying goes, there's many ways to become [129:22] successful, to be happy, to be motivated [129:23] in your life. There's many ways to [129:24] become a millionaire. Some of it bucks [129:26] sort of conventional wisdom of how to [129:27] grow a business. I think that is [129:29] actually liberating to know that your [129:31] own unique wiring and your own unique [129:33] perspective and a guy can drive you to [129:36] the same outcome of financial freedom if [129:38] you do have the self-awareness, if [129:40] you're willing to work hard and if you [129:41] can cope with the opinions of others. [129:44] Um, and also if you're willing to [129:46] sacrifice tremendously, because you have [129:47] sacrificed tremendously, and especially [129:48] as someone as a man that has a young man [129:51] that has four kids, you've taken on your [129:53] shoulders a huge amount of risk. And I [129:55] applaud you for both simplifying and [129:57] demystifying the pursuit of side hustles [130:00] and business and entrepreneurship for so [130:01] many people because I think um, in the [130:04] world we live in, it's probably going to [130:05] become more and more important that [130:06] people have more options. Agreed. um in [130:09] a world of AI and if Elon Musk is to be [130:11] successful in creating the age of [130:13] abundance that he's describing, then uh [130:15] maybe we're all going to end up as [130:16] entrepreneurs. Who knows? Who knows? [130:18] Thanks. Thank you. Thank you as well. [130:21] [music] [130:24] >> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say [130:25] to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you [130:28] to come even deeper into the D of a CEO. [130:30] Welcome to my inner circle. This is a [130:33] brand new private community that I'm [130:35] launching to the world. We have so many [130:37] incredible things that happen that you [130:39] are never shown. We have the briefs that [130:41] are on my iPad when I'm recording the [130:43] conversation. We have clips we've never [130:45] released. We have behind the scenes [130:46] conversations with the guest and also [130:48] the episodes that we've never ever [130:50] released. And so much more. In the [130:53] circle, you'll have direct access to me. [130:55] You can tell us what you want this show [130:57] to be, who you want us to interview, and [130:58] the types of conversations you would [131:00] love us to have. But remember, for now, [131:02] we're only inviting the first 10,000 [131:04] people that join before it closes. So, [131:07] if you want to join our private closed [131:08] community, head to the link in the [131:09] description below or go to [131:10] daccircle.com. [131:14] I will speak to you then. [131:19] [music] [131:26] [music] [131:28] Heat. Heat. [131:31] [music] [131:38] >> [music] [131:39] [singing]