Paul Rosolie Urges Direct Rainforest Funding as Amazon Nears Collapse
The Diary Of A CEO
Acaparadores de tierras y actividades ilegales acorralan a las tribus no contactadas de la Amazonía, amenazando con destruir el ecosistema tropical y provocar un colapso climático global si no se financia la protección directa de sus tierras.
## Background
Este contenido fue publicado por el canal The Diary Of A CEO (presentado por Steven Bartlett) en YouTube el 2 de febrero de 2026. Según la descripción de la página, presenta una entrevista con el explorador y conservacionista del Amazonas Paul Rosolie, quien comparte vivencias de más de dos décadas en la selva, encuentros con tribus no contactadas, experiencias con serpientes gigantes y advertencias sobre la preservación del ecosistema.
## TL;DR
Paul Rosolie relata sus impactantes experiencias de supervivencia e interacción con tribus indígenas no contactadas en lo profundo del Amazonas, desmintiendo mitos y revelando los graves peligros de la deforestación y la minería ilegal. Explica la compleja realidad táctica y social de estos grupos aislados, comparte anécdotas al límite con anacondas gigantes e incidentes mediáticos como 'Eaten Alive', y detalla el origen de su ONG Junglekeepers. A lo largo del diálogo, reflexiona sobre la medicina ancestral, la reconexión espiritual con la naturaleza y la urgencia de asumir una responsabilidad colectiva como protectores del planeta.
## Atmosphere & style
La entrevista mantiene un tono visceral, íntimo y electrizante, donde la tensión constante de los relatos sobre la selva se entrelaza con una profunda fascinación por el mundo natural. La dinámica entre Steven Bartlett y Paul Rosolie evoluciona desde un asombro casi escéptico hasta una conversación madura de gran empatía y respeto. Se percibe una mezcla de urgencia ambiental y vulnerabilidad personal, creando una atmósfera inmersiva que transporta al oyente directamente al peligro, la majestuosidad y la crudeza de la Amazonía.
## Key takeaways
- [02:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=154s) Paul Rosolie se encuentra en una misión para salvar más de 300,000 acres de la selva amazónica a través de su organización Junglekeepers.
- [44:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2692s) Las tribus no contactadas enfrentan constantes amenazas externas por la deforestación, la minería ilegal de oro, madereros furtivos y narcotraficantes.
- [44:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2692s) Se desmienten los rumores sobre canibalismo en las tribus no contactadas, cuya dieta nómada se basa principalmente en tortugas y monos.
- [47:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2855s) El contacto directo con personas ajenas a la selva supone un riesgo mortal para estas tribus debido a la transmisión de patógenos comunes contra los cuales no tienen inmunidad.
- [01:00:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3630s) Las tribus no contactadas utilizan un camuflaje acústico imitando los sonidos de monos capuchinos y aves tinamú para coordinar sus movimientos y emboscadas.
- [01:01:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3700s) La vida en aislamiento está determinada por un cálculo constante de gasto calórico y supervivencia extrema, sin el uso de viviendas permanentes bajo el dosel forestal.
- [01:08:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4084s) La cuenca amazónica cuenta con un 'río de niebla' o atmosférico generado por la evapotranspiración de las plantas, el cual transporta más volumen de agua que el propio río Amazonas.
- [01:15:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4553s) El polémico programa de televisión 'Eaten Alive' de Discovery Channel fue diseñado para dar una plataforma global a la conservación, pero provocó una fuerte reacción en contra que afectó la carrera de Rosolie.
- [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4686s) Dr. Jane Goodall actuó como mentora de Paul Rosolie, respaldando sus escritos e impulsando su carrera en la conservación medioambiental.
- [02:22:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8568s) Junglekeepers financia su labor contratando a antiguos madereros y mineros ilegales para desempeñarse como guardabosques a tiempo completo.
- [02:02:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7371s) La ciencia y la naturaleza pueden ser entendidas como fuerzas complementarias, donde la selva actúa como un espacio sagrado de equilibrio ecológico.
- [02:07:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7665s) La humanidad debe actuar como guardiana y no como el centro del universo, reconociendo que los ecosistemas dependen de especies clave como las hormigas para evitar su colapso.
- [02:11:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7872s) Rosolie aboga por un consumo selectivo de medios e información para evitar la ansiedad paralizante del pánico tecnológico y la cobertura constante de tragedias globales.
- [02:29:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8987s) Las medicinas autóctonas de la selva poseen conocimientos botánicos capaces de curar infecciones severas que la medicina moderna a veces no logra tratar.
- [04:21:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=15672s) El mayor temor de Paul Rosolie es la apatía global que impida salvar los sistemas de soporte vital de la Tierra antes de que sea demasiado tarde.
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=0s) Intro: Live Snakes and Uncontacted Tribes in the Studio
The podcast opens with an extraordinary, tense scene as jungle explorer Paul Rosolie brings a live 10-foot Burmese python directly onto the set. Host Steven Bartlett admits he is left questioning his life choices while staring down a giant predator inches away across the desk. Paul warmly asks if Steven has ever interviewed someone with a massive snake on the table before, to which Steven laughs nervously that this is definitely his first.
This sets the backdrop for Paul's extraordinary backstory: spending two decades living barefoot in the Amazon rainforest with a machete, surviving crocodile bites, rare diseases, narco-traffickers, and close calls with uncontacted indigenous tribes. Paul recounts a friend who carries a visible facial scar from being shot in the head with a seven-foot arrow while attempting to make peaceful contact with isolated groups. Steven highlights world-first footage of an uncontacted tribe—people so deeply isolated they have never seen a wheel, a spoon, or heard of Jesus—coming out of the deep jungle after a perilous two-day boat journey through a severe thunderstorm.
Paul issues a dire warning about the rapid vanishing of the Amazon. He notes that the destruction of this massive rainforest system directly threatens life on Earth, and stresses that our generation is the very last one capable of saving it. Turning to modern issues, Steven asks if Paul's 20 years in the wild hold any practical lessons for a Western world struggling with screen addiction, isolation, and a crisis of purpose.
---
[02:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=154s) Why I'm on a Mission to Save the Amazon
Steven asks Paul to reflect on how he has spent the last 20 years of his life. Paul explains that his entire adult life has been a singular pursuit: finding ways to explore the deepest, wildest corners of the Amazon and discovering how to protect them. Steven points out that most people view the Amazon simply as a large patch of trees full of wild animals, and asks Paul to correct the fundamental misunderstanding around its true nature.
Paul explains that the primary issue is a failure to comprehend scale. The Amazon is one of the most vital, physically defining features of the planet. Seen from space, it appears as a massive green belt sweeping across South America that holds one-fifth of the world’s liquid fresh water and generates one-fifth of Earth's oxygen. Paul notes that after going to the jungle at age 18 in search of pure adventure, his quest naturally evolved into a deep call to purpose when he realized that he and his team were among the few people willing to stand up against the bulldozers and chainsaws.
Paul discusses the existential dread felt by modern society over environmental destruction, ocean collapse, and species extinction. His mission was to test whether real solutions exist and whether the doom-laden conservation narrative can be rewritten into a story of tangible action and hope.
- **Freshwater and Oxygen:** The Amazon rainforest contains approximately 20% of the world's fresh water and produces roughly 20% of the planet's oxygen.
- **Scale of the Jungle:** The Amazon rainforest spans an area larger than the contiguous lower 48 states of the United States.
---
[05:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=332s) A Warning From 20 Years Deep in the Jungle
Paul addresses the urgent relevance of his message amidst the rise of rapid technological change and artificial intelligence. He emphasizes that humanity is living through the single most critical moment in history because, for the first time, all of global society faces an identical threat: if Earth's core ecosystems collapse, human life cannot continue.
Contrasting his trajectory with modern life, Paul touches on the mental health toll on younger generations hooked on screens. He reflects humorously on his own struggle to adapt to modern urban environments, sharing how arriving at the studio was an absolute ordeal—he was nearly run over by a driver shouting "Get out of the road, Anaconda guy!", struggled to figure out how to open an Uber door with a button, and had an unfilmed "adventure" in the bathroom.
Paul contrasts this urban disorientation with his early "barefoot machete days" under indigenous mentors like his close friend JJ, who did not own shoes until he was 13 years old. Living in the jungle forces an immediate grounding in reality; if you want food or fish, you must interact directly with the forest and river, not a supermarket. When young people only interact with the world through their thumbs, disorienting anxiety is a natural outcome. Nature, Paul argues, enforces strict physical and chemical boundaries that make life fundamentally understandable.
> "You go to the mountains and the rain and the sky and the rocks, we'll teach you what's real real quick and you all have to agree on it or else you'll die."
Paul reflects on the claustrophobia he experiences in modern cities and hotels built entirely of synthetic composite materials where windows cannot even be opened. For him, looking up at the stars every night and feeling river water beneath his feet are essential daily rituals. He compares modern society to a fish perpetually out of water, pointing out how disconnected people have become—where children genuinely believe meat originates in grocery stores rather than animals.
- **Early Life Rituals:** As a teenager around age 12 to 14, Paul would venture into the woods with a single match, a steak, a hunting knife, and his Golden Retriever, imposing a personal rule of no tent or shelter to force real survival skills.
---
[11:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=685s) The Wild Start to a Life-Changing Amazon Journey
Paul details his path from a rebellious, outdoors-obsessed teenager to setting off for the Peruvian Amazon at age 17. Despite struggling with formal classroom discipline and assignments—leading to a chaotic mix of school detentions, suspensions, and simultaneous membership in American Mensa—he excelled in tracking, building shelters, and wilderness survival.
To escape the rigid school environment, Paul dropped out of high school early by passing the one-day GED test. Under an agreement with his parents, he enrolled in university while spending his break semesters deep in the rainforest. He secured the most remote position available: a research station located two full days by boat from the nearest city, run by a Peruvian indigenous expert named JJ.
JJ belonged to the indigenous Ese Eja tribe, drawing on generations of traditional knowledge. JJ could track jaguars, deer, or humans, catch piranhas using a piece of his own foot callus as bait, and harvest Barbasco root to temporarily stun fish in a river. While JJ possessed vast knowledge of medicinal plants and jungle survival, he admitted to being terrified of snakes. Paul offered a trade: he would handle and teach JJ about snakes if JJ taught him everything else about the rainforest. Impressed, JJ invited the 17-year-old Paul on an exclusive 10-day family hunting expedition deep into pristine, unnamed parts of the upper Amazon reserved strictly for indigenous people, launching Paul's lifelong immersion in the wild.
[14:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=881s) The Canopy and the Apex of Earth's Biodiversity
The Amazon is the largest contiguous rainforest on Earth, and parts of it remain completely unexplored by modern humans. Its canopy reaches 150 to 160 feet overhead—a massive vertical frontier where roughly half of all rainforest life exists. Where the cloud forests of the Andes descend into the tropical lowland Amazon, Earth achieves its absolute peak of terrestrial biodiversity. Across the entire fossil record, this biome represents the ultimate "climax community"—the greatest concentration of life known to exist anywhere in the universe.
Deep within this lush ecosystem, human life exists outside modern history. Various indigenous groups dwell throughout the Western Amazon, including the Ese Eja, the Matsigenka, and the Yine. Further out beyond these communities, persistent rumors circulated for decades regarding mysterious uncontacted tribes.
- Long before direct contact, locals shared stories passed down from uncles, brothers, and cousins who claimed to have spotted tall, naked warriors hunting with traditional bows and arrows.
- The physical evidence was sparse but terrifying: massive seven-foot arrows and bamboo-tipped spears featuring razor-sharp, machete-like tips brought back from deep jungle encounters.
---
[15:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=934s) "Look at the Beach and Tell Me the News"
Paul Rosolie’s transformation from an 18-year-old researcher into the director of a major conservation organization began with deep, hands-on lessons in the wild. His indigenous mentor, Juan Julio "JJ" Morales, taught him to read the forest like a daily paper. On one memorable trek along a riverbank, JJ pointed to a chaotic mess of tracks and scat, asking Rosolie to decipher the scene. Rosolie was baffled, but JJ laid out the exact narrative: a female jaguar had made a deer kill nearby, coming down to the river to drink yesterday, pooping, and returning to drink again today.
Pointing to the sky, JJ directed Rosolie's attention to a flock of vultures circling overhead. Crucially, the birds were not watching the two men on the bank—they were watching the jaguar resting near her kill. Through these experiences, Rosolie learned to see the rainforest as an intricate, hyper-connected web of life, where every butterfly, mist river, and animal track formed a living masterpiece.
---
[18:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=1090s) Two Guys, Bare Feet, and Machetes
That pristine world was suddenly shattered when loggers moved into areas Rosolie had grown to love. Ancient trees—far larger than any building—were felled, and the morning "symphonic roar" of jungle life was silenced. Standing among the smoldering ruins of a thousand-year-old forest where uncataloged species had just been incinerated, a devastated Rosolie asked JJ if there was an authority or government agency they could call to stop the destruction.
> "He leaned forward, looked this way and looked that way, and he goes, 'Do you see anybody? Cause I don't see anybody... You have to do something.'"
At 19 or 20 years old, Rosolie felt utterly ill-equipped. He lacked a college degree, a trust fund, a media platform, or scientific credentials—all he and JJ possessed were bare feet and machetes. Yet that sobering realization sparked the creation of **Junglekeepers**. Over the following two decades, their effort grew from a desperate idea into an impactful movement:
- Transformed former illegal loggers and gold miners into paid conservation rangers.
- Secured protection for **130,000 acres** along crucial river corridors.
- Worked toward creating a brand-new national park to preserve an entire intact watershed.
---
[20:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=1241s) The Gauntlet of Transformation
Transitioning from modern society into the deep Amazon forces a profound physical and psychological shift. Rosolie notes that modern humans are increasingly disconnected from community, nature, and the daily physical struggles that shaped human evolution. In modern life, basic needs are trivialized—water is in the fridge, air conditioning regulates temperature, and the primary temptation is to scroll aimlessly on a phone.
In contrast, immersion in the wild subjects the body to a natural "gauntlet":
- Calluses form on bare hands from splitting firewood and lifting heavy logs.
- Bare feet toughen against rough terrain.
- Intense sun and rain thicken the skin, while senses sharpen to track subtle sounds and sights.
This physical rebuilding transforms a person into the "jungle version" of themselves, helping relieve the modern feeling of disassociation.
---
[23:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=1399s) The Brain Science of Hard Things
Host Steven Bartlett highlights the neuroscience behind Rosolie's experience, citing the discovery of the **anterior mid-cingulate cortex (aMCC)**—a brain region sitting between the emotional centers and the executive control center. Highlighted by neuroscientists like Dr. Andrew Huberman, the aMCC actually physical grows when a person forces themselves to engage in hard, unpleasurable tasks that require effortful friction.
- Studies suggest that younger generations trapped in "doom-scrolling" cycles and individuals with obesity often exhibit smaller aMCC volumes.
- Elite athletes and individuals who achieve exceptional longevity frequently possess significantly larger aMCC structures.
- Historical figures exemplified this deliberate discomfort: after losing his wife and mother on the exact same day in 1884, **Teddy Roosevelt** retreated to the Dakota Badlands for two years of grueling physical labor, emerging completely transformed into the resilient leader who later led the Rough Riders and became President.
Driven by a similar impulse, Rosolie sought out extreme discomfort. Growing up with heavy environmental anxiety—watching zoo exhibits detail rainforest destruction and dying wildlife—he refused to rely on media filters. He embarked on dangerous 10-day solo treks into unmapped Amazon territory, pushing far past the last named settlements to test his limits and witness reality firsthand.
---
[26:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=1596s) Scars, Purpose, and the Shift from Adventure to Mission
Comparing his 18-year-old self to the 38-year-old veteran sitting in the studio, Rosolie notes a radical shift in perspective. The teenager was driven by a desire for swashbuckling adventure, escaping rules, learning survival skills, and emulate historical icons like Teddy Roosevelt and Jane Goodall.
Two decades later, Rosolie carries physical and psychological marks from his journey:
- His body is "a Jackson Pollock painting of scars" left by crocodile bites, tiger bites, severe jungle infections, close calls with wild elephants, and encounters with narco-terrorists.
- The pursuit of pure adventure evolved into a heavy responsibility to protect millions of animal lives and support indigenous land sovereignty.
- His primary focus shifted to a singular goal: proving that saving a critical ecosystem is achievable before it is lost forever.
---
[28:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=1736s) The Architecture of the Amazon Basin
Returning to the topic of uncontacted tribes, Rosolie clarifies that publicizing or seeking out isolated groups was never part of Junglekeepers' original plan. The organization was focused on understanding the geography of the river system to figure out why certain regions remained pristine.
The Amazon functions like a vast "tree of rivers," branching off a massive central channel into smaller tributaries:
- The main river channel and lower tributaries have long served as commercial highways; steamships can travel thousands of miles inland from the Atlantic through Brazil all the way to Iquitos, Peru.
- The upper branches—the high-altitude, remote headwaters—remain extremely difficult to access, creating natural sanctuaries where undisturbed wildlife and isolated human societies continue to endure.
<FollowUp label="Want to hear the rest of Paul's story about meeting uncontacted tribes?" query="Continue the detailed walkthrough for the next part of the transcript covering the meeting with uncontacted tribes."/>
[29:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=1794s) Protecting the Rainforest with Indigenous Rangers
Paul Rosolie describes being at the far southern edge of the Amazon, navigating a remote tributary—an offshoot stream from a larger river system. For centuries, this specific river remained wild and untouched by conventional development or modern indigenous settlements because it was fiercely guarded by the violent and mysterious Mashco Piro, a nomadic uncontacted tribe who acted as the original "jungle keepers." Rosolie clarifies a critical distinction between uncontacted tribes and local indigenous communities: the latter are accessible groups that can be communicated with directly, often in Spanish.
To protect this territory, Rosolie’s organization, Junglekeepers, collaborates directly with two local indigenous communities. Rather than leaving these populations vulnerable to exploitation by incoming loggers, gold miners, and drug traffickers, Junglekeepers provides them with sustainable employment. Local community members are hired as rangers, boat drivers, guides, and handymen to protect their own land. This gives them the income needed for basic necessities—like purchasing gasoline to transport pregnant women to hospitals in town—without having to resort to illegal logging.
- A tributary is an offshoot stream that feeds into a larger river system, eventually connecting to major waterways like the Hudson or Amazon.
- The Mashco Piro kept this specific region untamed for hundreds of years through their aggressive isolationism.
- Uncontacted tribes remain totally isolated, whereas local indigenous communities engage in direct communication and trade with outside society.
- Illegal loggers, narco-traffickers, and miners frequently exploit indigenous communities by stealing timber and fish or offering unfair trades.
- Junglekeepers supports local indigenous people by employing them as rangers to patrol and protect their ancestral lands.
---
[32:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=1952s) The Emergency Call: "The Tribe Is Out"
Roughly a year prior to the interview, the directors of Junglekeepers received an urgent call from their indigenous rangers in the field warning that the uncontacted tribe was about to emerge from the deep forest. At the time, Rosolie and his co-director, JJ, were in town meeting with lawyers and raising funds to purchase and preserve rainforest land. Hearing that "the tribe is out" was a startling revelation; for years, even former Peruvian presidents had dismissed the existence of these nomadic tribes as a mythical "boogeyman" story invented to frighten off loggers.
The indigenous community implored the directors to travel upriver immediately, anxious that no one would believe their account if outsiders didn't witness it firsthand. To reach the location, ranger Ignacio drove an open-top canoe on an intense all-night journey. Despite previously surviving a point-blank gunshot wound to the head from a seven-foot arrow while attempting to make peaceful contact years earlier, Ignacio navigated a brutal two-day boat trip in a single night through a blinding thunderstorm.
- Former Peruvian authorities had previously dismissed the existence of uncontacted tribes as an urban legend meant to deter loggers.
- Remote areas upriver require up to three weeks of travel into endless forest where no modern human infrastructure exists.
- Ignacio, a primary Junglekeepers ranger, carries a prominent forehead scar from being shot with a 7-foot bow and arrow during a past encounter.
- Navigating the river during a severe thunderstorm required using a flashlight to spot the reflective eyes of caimans along the riverbanks to gauge the edges of the water.
- The emergency boat run compressed a typical two-day journey into a grueling trip lasting from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. the following morning.
---
[36:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2161s) Waiting at the Riverbank
Upon arrival, the team was told the tribe had already melted back into the forest. The only immediate evidence was an incident from the previous day: a local fisherman had been shot at with a massive seven-foot arrow. Luckily, the arrow ricocheted off his boat and struck his thick leather belt, blunting its tip and saving his life. An indigenous anthropologist who spoke a dialect similar to the tribe's language arrived, but after waiting two days deep in the jungle with no further sightings, Rosolie's team prepared to return to town to resume their administrative work.
Before they could depart, Ignacio urged Rosolie as a friend to stay put, insisting that his tuned jungle instincts told him the tribe was still close and intended to communicate. Shortly after, screams of "Mashco!" echoed through the small settlement, sparking immediate chaos as local women grabbed babies and livestock scattered. Across the river, naked warriors wearing string belts and holding massive seven-foot longbows emerged from the tree line. Rosolie describes it as looking across a single body of water to see warriors step out from a thousand years in the past.
> "There was a thousand years between us. We're standing on either side of the river with a thousand years between us, and this aperture into the history of what humankind used to look like."
- Local knowledge is paramount in the Amazon; Rosolie notes that native guides pick up on subtle cues like bird calls to detect nearby jaguars or impending storms.
- The fisherman survived a longbow attack because his thick leather belt deflected the force of the arrow.
- The uncontacted group belongs to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle that the native anthropologist described as being in the "bamboo age" rather than the stone age.
- Male warriors emerged naked, with penises tied up to their bellies using thin waist strings, armed with seven-foot longbows.
- Longbow arrows can travel up to 300 meters, far outranging standard shotguns using buckshot at 50 to 100 meters.
---
[39:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2392s) First Contact and the Banana Offering
Standing behind trees for cover, the team observed the warriors across the river. The group identified themselves using the word *"nomole"*, meaning "brothers." While some warriors stood out in the open offering to communicate, Ignacio used binoculars to spot tactical flankers—painted warriors hiding in the shadows of the forest with drawn bows aimed directly at the team. The anthropologist called across the river, requesting that the warriors lay down their weapons in exchange for a peaceful discussion.
The tribe's immediate demand was for food, specifically plantains and rope. The anthropologist waded into the river to deliver a boatload of bananas as a goodwill gesture. In exclusive footage shared during the interview, the uncontacted individuals are seen cautiously approaching the beach, motioning for cameras to be put down out of fear they were firearms. Upon reaching the food, the tribe members engaged in a chaotic, desperate scramble over the plantains—talking all at once in a loud cacophony reminiscent of a flock of parrots.
- The tribe referred to themselves as *"nomole"*, which translates to "brothers."
- The term "Mashco Piro" translates roughly to "wild Piro people."
- While frontlines bargained, hidden flankers with red face paint kept longbows trained on the team from the shadows.
- Tribe members mistook cameras for firearms ("fire sticks") and demanded they be put down.
- The encounter was marked by a tense negotiation where the tribe demanded offerings of plantains and rope.
---
[43:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2618s) Rare Footage and the Plea for Help
Rosolie explains that this footage was held back from public release for a significant period due to its extreme sensitivity. Publishing such material risks encouraging irresponsible adventurers to hunt for uncontacted tribes, ignoring the reality that these groups have spent centuries demanding to be left alone—enforcing their isolation through deadly force when necessary.
During the multi-hour exchange, the tribe asked a haunting question: *"How do we tell the bad guys from the good guys?"* They explained that outsiders had been entering their lands and shooting at them with "fire sticks" (guns). Rosolie reassured them that his group were not the bad guys, highlighting the severe ongoing threats these ancient societies face from illegal armed forces encroaching on their territory.
- Footage of uncontacted tribes is strictly managed to avoid romanticizing their existence or sparking illegal eco-tourism.
- The tribe has maintained forced isolation for centuries, defending their borders with lethal archery.
- Members of the tribe specifically inquired how to distinguish hostile outsiders from peaceful ones.
- The uncontacted group reported ongoing violent encounters with armed poachers or loggers using firearms.
[44:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2692s) Outside Threats, First Contacts, and the Struggle for Survival
The tension between uncontacted tribes and the outside world reaches far beyond casual curiosity—it is a matter of life and death. When members of an uncontacted clan emerged from the forest, they addressed everyone present without distinction between local Peruvians, foreigners, or white observers. Their message was direct and clear: "Stop cutting down our trees. Our trees are our gods." Paul Rosolie explains that these isolated groups are being squeezed into ever-smaller territories by rampant deforestation, wildcat gold miners, illegal loggers, and ruthless narco-traffickers who view them as a direct threat. In fact, a mass grave of a similar clan was uncovered, underscoring the lethal violence these tribes face daily. Coming out to the riverbanks is often their desperate attempt to read the situation—to figure out who the good guys and bad guys are, entirely unaware that organizations like Junglekeepers are actively trying to protect their ancestral lands.
These isolated communities exist outside the stream of modern history. Having never encountered a spoon, the wheel, Christianity, World War II, or even the concept of Peru as a nation state, their questions about the outside world are endless. Rosolie emphasizes that the only ethical way to safeguard these people and honor their human rights is to protect the forests they inhabit. Examining footage of the encounter, host Steven Bartlett notices several men touching their noses—a behavioral quirk Rosolie chuckles over, suggesting it might be Steven's personal contribution to anthropology. They also examine the attire: cordage tied around their midrifts with the tip of the penis safely tucked up into the rope. Rosolie points out that protecting vulnerable anatomy from vicious jungle insects like mosquitoes, botflies, and sandflies is practical biology. Rope itself represents one of humanity's earliest and most versatile inventions; the tribe relies on it intensely for bowstrings, arrow crafting, and lashing together temporary shelters.
- **Diet and Habits:** Based on abandoned forest camps, researchers know these nomadic clans survive primarily on turtles and monkeys; notably, they do not fish and lack fishhooks.
- **Debunking Cannibalism:** Rosolie forcefully refutes rumors that these tribes are cannibals, noting that fake AI-generated audio clips of his voice claiming otherwise have circulated online.
- **Physical Characteristics:** The men sported uniform, mullet-style haircuts—likely cut with a shared machete—and displayed exceptionally wide, thick, calloused "duck feet" from a lifetime of walking unshod in the mud.
- **Demographics:** Those observed at the riverbank were all men aged roughly between 12 and 45. The elderly were absent, leaving open questions about whether older tribal members remain in permanent interior settlements or are left behind if unable to keep up.
[47:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2855s) Tactical Diversions, Fear, and Human Connection
The encounter was a masterclass in tactical distraction. While the tribe's men stood aggressively at the river's edge keeping the expedition focused on them, the women were quietly executing a stealth raid behind the scenes. Hidden safely in the dense foliage, the women raided the local indigenous community's farm, pulling up the entire crop—yuca, plantains, and sugarcane—and leaving the field completely ruined. Though the women were never caught on camera, their smaller footprints in the soil and the testimony of local village women confirmed their role in the coordinated raid.
Despite the fascinating nature of the exchange, fear was the dominant emotion consuming both sides. Local indigenous guides stood with their shotguns raised, while the uncontacted warriors held massive bows, some keeping hidden archers stationed in the treeline. Negotiation was tense—an implicit standoff where neither side wanted to lower their weapons first. Yet amidst the threat of violence, moments of profound human connection broke through. At one point, the tribesmen pointed specifically at Rosolie—the only person present with a large beard—demanding to see him. Stepping to the river's edge with his heart pounding, Rosolie held up his bare hands to signal peace. In response, the warriors raised their hands and began to sing, creating a bridge of mutual recognition across a thousand-year cultural divide.
- **The Machete Standoff:** As the tribe retreated, one warrior proudly brandished a stolen machete over his shoulder. When a local guide shouted to leave it, the warrior merely grinned back with a look that clearly communicated, "Come and get it."
- **A Parting Shot:** Just before disappearing into the brush, one warrior stepped onto the beach, notched an arrow, smiled, and shot it high into the air toward the group just to spook them, demonstrating a distinct, albeit aggressive, sense of humor.
- **Atmospheric Wonder:** The dramatic encounter unfolded in 95-degree heat on a riverbank swarming with millions of swirling, colorful butterflies—a surreal scene Rosolie describes as so primal that "if a Tyrannosaurus Rex walked out behind them, I wouldn't have been surprised."
- **Pathogen Risk:** Rosolie clarifies that footage of such encounters was withheld for a long time out of fear that well-meaning outsiders might try to seek the tribe out. Common pathogens like the cold virus, to which modern humans have immunity, could easily wipe out an uncontacted tribe.
[54:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3260s) Bows, Arrows, and the Lawlessness of the Amazon
The physical presence of these isolated people shatters common misconceptions. Far from being small or frail, the men Rosolie encountered stood around 5'9" to 5'10"—noticeably taller than many neighboring indigenous groups, such as the nearby Nawa people, who rarely exceed five feet in height. Two men, who appeared to be brothers, seemed to lead the interaction, with the largest and most muscular brother stepping furthest into the river, gesticulating forcefully while occasionally flashing a smile.
However, Rosolie cautions against romanticizing these interactions: these tribes can and do kill outsiders regularly. Just one day after this peaceful exchange, Rosolie's friend George—who had helped broker the calm during the negotiation—was driving his boat around a river bend when he unexpectedly surprised the same group walking along the bank. Caught off guard, the warriors opened fire with longbows. While passengers dived beneath heavy wooden benches, George took a massive arrow through his back over the scapula; the shaft pierced his right lung and exited near his belly button. Though he survived after an emergency helicopter evacuation, he was permanently altered.
- **Absence of Law:** Rosolie points out that formal legal systems do not exist in the deep Amazon. Police have zero jurisdiction or physical capability to enforce laws in a jungle where traversing just half a mile of dense brush takes an hour with a machete.
- **Primal Logic:** In the wild, interactions revert to pure survival and power dynamics—"who has a bigger stick." Tribal members treat unfamiliar human items, and even humans themselves, with curious detachment, sometimes killing an outsider simply to inspect an interesting pair of pants.
- **Acoustic Camouflage:** To hunt, coordinate, and surround outsiders, these tribes perfectly mimic the vocalizations of capuchin monkeys and tinamou birds.
- **The Forest Signal:** Local guides know that if animal calls sound slightly off or out of sequence—such as hearing five tinamous responding simultaneously in a small area—it means an uncontacted tribe has surrounded you with bows drawn.
[01:00:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3630s) Forest Ambushes and Strategic Animal Calls
Paul Rosolie shares a tragic story from his time in the Amazon involving a close friend's father. While the man was standing in a stream with his son, an uncontacted group surrounded them, communicating across the perimeter using tactical animal calls. Without warning, they shot the father in the stomach with an arrow. The son managed to run for his life, but when the community returned the following day, they found the father had bled to death. The true motive behind the killing remains completely unknown.
Steven Bartlett clarifies how uncontacted groups use this method as an effective hunting or ambush tactic. By mimicking monkey chittering or bird calls to coordinate movements, their target—whether wild game or loggers trespassing on their land—remains entirely unaware that they are being encircled until giant seven-foot arrows are unleashed.
[01:01:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3699s) The Harsh Reality of Survival vs. Modern Concepts of Happiness
When asked if uncontacted tribes are happy, Rosolie cautions against imposing modern, romanticized Western ideals onto these communities. Quoting the grim atmosphere of Cormac McCarthy novels, he explains that their lives are more akin to *Apocalypto* than *Downton Abbey*. They are constantly in a state of desperation, calculating the vital trade-offs of daily existence: calorie expenditure, the physical toll of walking miles through dense brush, inter-tribal warfare, and raiding neighboring groups.
Rosolie emphasizes that forced or rapid contact with the outside world has historically proven catastrophic for isolated cultures:
* **Pathogens:** Lacking immunity, uncontacted tribes face near-total devastation from foreign diseases upon initial exposure.
* **Cultural Erosion:** Even when contact is made with neighboring settled indigenous groups, the introduction of alcohol, cash economies, and modern vices can destroy a tribe's language, tradition, and structure within a single generation.
* **Protection Needs:** For these communities to survive and retain agency, their home territories must be strictly protected from outside encroachment.
* **Anthropological Unknowns:** Modern science remains completely in the dark regarding their birth rates, infant mortality, elder care practices, creation myths, or spiritual beliefs.
[01:03:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3805s) Life Beneath the Canopy and the Myth of Simple Living
Addressing questions about how isolated tribes live, Rosolie paints a vivid picture of existence beneath 160 feet of dense forest canopy. Rather than residing in permanent houses or huts, these nomadic groups often huddle around small campfires in the dark floor of the rainforest. Navigating the Amazon is like walking on the bottom of a four-dimensional ocean, surrounded by a vertical wall of slithering life, frogs, and constant motion high up in the branches.
> "If I handed you a lighter and a full cup of gasoline and said, 'Have all the sticks you want in the jungle,' you still couldn't make me a fire right now."
Despite the extreme environment, these groups have mastered wilderness survival. They know how to ignite fires out of damp rainforest materials—a feat almost impossible for a modern person even with matches and fuel. Because they lack metal pots or heat-resistant vessels, many of these individuals have likely never seen water boil, drinking solely from rain or streams, and have zero concept that water can freeze into ice.
[01:04:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3878s) Rare Moments of Connection and the Trauma of the Past
While survival is brutal, Rosolie acknowledges that human nature inherently seeks moments of play and relief. He recalls a tense encounter where both sides had weapons drawn—shotguns on one side, longbows on the other. Even in that high-stress standoff, a fleeting moment of mutual understanding occurred when they exchanged nervous, knowing smiles over a machete, realizing that neither party truly wanted a bloody conflict.
```
SPECTRUM OF TRIBAL EXISTENCE
┌─────────────────────────────────────┐
│ Constant Threat of Pathogens/War │
├─────────────────────────────────────┤
│ Brutal Caloric & Physical Demands │
├─────────────────────────────────────┤
│ Shared Human Play & Fleeting Humor │
└─────────────────────────────────────┘
```
However, Rosolie dispels the myth that uncontacted tribes live in a peaceful, idyllic paradise. Unchecked inter-tribal violence, rape, murder, and deaths from untreated infections are reality. He shares a haunting story about a young boy who washed downriver on a log as an eight-year-old and was adopted by a remote indigenous village. When asked years later what life was like with *Los Calatos* ("the naked ones"), the boy guarded his past intensely, offering only a flat "I don't remember" before walking away—a clear shield against childhood trauma.
[01:08:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4084s) Protecting the Wildest Part of the Planet
Rosolie defends his non-profit Junglekeepers' hyper-focus on protecting 300,000 acres along one specific Amazonian river tributary out of thousands. Drawing a comparison to John Muir taking President Teddy Roosevelt on a legendary camping trip through Yosemite and the giant Sequoia groves, he argues that society must preserve the wildest places before they are lost forever.
To raise awareness and give supporters a window into this ecosystem, his team constructed a lookout treehouse high above the forest on a promontory of *terra firme* (unflooded land):
* **The Atmospheric River:** Above the green canopy flows a massive, invisible "mist river" formed by plant evapotranspiration that carries more water volume than the physical Amazon River itself.
* **The Treehouse Experience:** Standing atop the tallest canopy trees at dawn reveals this glowing atmospheric river lit by the morning sun.
* **The Stark Contrast:** The preserved reserve directly borders devasted, deforested clearings—showing visitors the grim fate of the jungle when conservation efforts fail.
When asked if he envies the lifestyle of uncontacted tribes or wants to live among them, Rosolie offers an unequivocal "no." While he enjoys fishing for piranhas with indigenous friends, he deeply appreciates modern medicine, digital cameras, and the ability to FaceTime his mother from the field, viewing romanticized notions of primitive wilderness life as pure stress.
The host pauses the conversation to highlight two key operational tools for growing businesses:
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[01:13:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4422s) Catching Big Snakes: Lessons from Steve Irwin and a 12-Foot Anaconda
The discussion transitions to Rosolie's extensive history of handling massive giant green anacondas in the field. Reviewing photos from his expeditions, he reflects on catching his first major snake—a 12-foot anaconda as thick as his leg—alongside his friend JJ.
Growing up, Rosolie learned handling techniques from watching Steve Irwin, specifically the fundamental rule of grabbing a wild snake by its tail:
* **The Tail Technique:** Grabbing a snake by its tail forces the animal to turn back toward the handler to defend itself, giving the handler time to safely control the head.
* **The Avoidance Principle:** Left alone, a wild snake will choose to flee 100% of the time rather than initiate an attack on a human.
* **The Novice Mistake:** Thrilled by the sight of his first big anaconda, Rosolie ignored the standard tail protocol and made the dangerous mistake of diving straight for its head—causing the powerful constrictor to immediately react and wrap around him.
[01:14:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4497s) Trapped in Anaconda "Handcuffs" and the Collarbone Breaking Point
Paul Rosolie breaks down the sheer, terrifying physical reality of being constricted by a giant anaconda. The immediate problem when a massive snake coils around you isn't just the raw pressure; it’s the loss of motor control. Rosolie explains that the moment the snake wrapped around his arms, he realized he had been put into "anaconda handcuffs." Because the heavy coils locked his wrists down tight, he couldn't even attempt to push or peel the snake off himself even if he wanted to.
```
[Anaconda Constriction Dynamics]
1. Wrists Trapped ──► "Anaconda Handcuffs" (Zero manual leverage)
2. Shoulder Coils ──► Torso Compression
3. Bone Flexing ──► Audible stress (sounds like snapping sticks)
4. Final Rescue ──► Tail peeled off at absolute breaking point
```
The situation escalated dangerously within seconds as a second coil slid up over his shoulders and clamped down on his upper torso. He describes hearing his own collarbone start to flex with a sickening sound—"the way a stick sounds right before it snaps." At the absolute last second, just as his eyes felt like they were literally about to pop out of his head from the extreme pressure, his expedition partner JJ grabbed the snake by its tail and forcefully unraveled it. His brother jumped in to assist, unwinding the constrictor right before it delivered a fatal crush. Reflecting on the close call, Rosolie notes with a touch of grim humor that the serpent in question was not even a particularly large specimen.
- **Key Physiological Warning Signs**: Visualizing extreme ocular pressure ("eyes going to come out of my head") and hearing auditory bone stress (collarbone flexing like a snapping branch).
- **Critical Intervention**: Unwinding an anaconda requires leverage at the tail end to break the muscle anchor rather than fighting the main body coil.
---
[01:15:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4553s) The Infamous "Eaten Alive" Discovery Channel Stunt
Steven points to an incredible photograph on screen, urging viewers to look at the bizarre image of Rosolie clad in a specialized carbon-fiber suit while facing down a giant snake. Rosolie takes a deep breath to address the story, framing it around a vital life lesson: if you want to succeed at anything meaningful, you have to become comfortable with massive public failures. At around 24 years old, after spending years doing ground-up Amazon exploration and field biology, Discovery Channel approached him proposing a show about anacondas. Rosolie was thrilled by the platform, seeing an opportunity to educate millions on apex predators, bioaccumulation, and environmental heavy metal toxins like mercury moving up the food chain.
The television executives, however, pushed back on pure science. They wanted high-stakes spectacle, noting that while reticulated pythons have documented human prey cases, an anaconda eating a human had never been filmed. Despite Rosolie pointing out that indigenous relatives and locals do occasionally fall victim to large constrictors without cameras around, the network pitched a wild premise: they would build him a custom, ultra-expensive defensive suit if he would volunteer to be swallowed on camera. Hungry to get his conservation message to a global audience to stop the incineration of his beloved rainforests, Rosolie reluctantly agreed to the stunt at the end of what was supposed to be a serious documentary titled *Expedition Amazon*.
> "I'd volunteer. I would have cut off my foot to save the forest. I'll do anything to save the forest."
- **The Apex Predator Scientific Rationale**: Anacondas absorb toxins (like mercury) from fish, caimans, and birds, making them critical bioindicators for whole-ecosystem health.
- **The Pitch**: Discovery Channel offered *Expedition Amazon*, promising a six-week science expedition in exchange for a final defensive-suit stunt to demonstrate snake behavior.
---
[01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4686s) Advice and Endorsement from Conservation Legend Jane Goodall
Before undertaking the high-profile television project, Rosolie sought counsel from his lifelong hero, the famed primatologist Dr. Jane Goodall. Goodall—who fundamentally redefined humanity's understanding of tool use and animal personalities during her work in Gombe—listened to his plan to enter a protective pit with a snake and warned him flatly: "I don't think it's going to go well." Rosolie explains how profound Goodall's influence had been on his trajectory ever since his parents read him stories about her as a child. He revered her non-conformist scientific spirit, particularly her decision to break academic protocol by naming her chimpanzee study subjects based on their distinct personalities rather than assigning them cold numbers.
```
[Jane Goodall's Catalytic Impact]
Hand-delivered Manuscript (Manila Envelope in NYC line of 500)
│
▼
48-Hour Response ──► Read sample chapters on anteaters & anacondas
│
▼
Publisher Endorsement ──► "Mother Earth herself" backing the manuscript
│
▼
Career Launch ──► Gave a high school dropout credibility in conservation
```
Rosolie shares the remarkable story of how he first connected with Goodall. Years earlier, while attending a crowded lecture of hers in New York City, he handed her a manila envelope containing sample draft chapters of his writing—one about raising an orphaned giant anteater and another detailing his first anaconda hunt with JJ—along with a humble cover letter. Against all odds, Goodall's team contacted him just 48 hours later to report that she had personally read the pages, loved them, and promised to endorse his book once he found a publisher. That single act of generosity from "Mother Earth herself" unlocked publisher doors for a high school dropout who lacked formal academic credentials, effectively creating his career.
- **Goodall's Impact**: Redefined tool use, challenged rigid academic frameworks by acknowledging animal individuality, and spearheaded modern wildlife conservation.
- **The Quote on His Book Cover**: "On behalf of the forests that I love, thank you, Paul, for writing this book." — Dr. Jane Goodall.
---
[01:22:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4929s) Capturing "Eleanor" and the Backlash of *Eaten Alive*
During the six-week Amazon shoot, Rosolie’s field team captured a record-breaking female green anaconda they named "Eleanor," in honor of Rosolie’s beloved grandmother. Eleanor measured a verified 18 feet 6 inches long and weighed over 100 kilograms despite being lean from not having eaten recently. The team conducted legitimate, groundbreaking field research on her, including feeding her a specialized radio transmitter that stayed in her digestive tract for months, allowing scientists to track her movement patterns through the ecosystem for the first time in history.
```
[The "Eaten Alive" Media Fallout]
┌───────────────────────┐
│ Discovery Channel │ ──► Re-edited footage to erase science;
│ Production Decision │ rebranded show to "Eaten Alive"
└──────────┬────────────┘
│
▼
┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
│ TRIPLE BACKLASH │
├───────────────────┬───────────────────┬────────────────┤
│ General Public │ PETA │ Scientists │
│ Felt tricked │ Angry over alleged│ Labelled him a │
│ by the title │ animal endangerment│ shock-seeker │
└───────────────────┴───────────────────┴────────────────┘
```
However, the production company betrayed the agreement. The night before Rosolie was scheduled to embark on a massive press tour—including an appearance on *Good Morning America*—executives showed him the final edit. They had stripped out the scientific data and conservation messaging entirely, focusing exclusively on the sensationalized stunt and retitling the show *Eaten Alive*.
The resulting public fallout was catastrophic:
1. **The Public**: Outraged because Rosolie was not literally swallowed whole.
2. **Animal Rights Groups (PETA)**: Furious over perceived exploitation of the snake.
3. **The Scientific Community**: Dismissed Rosolie as a reckless thrill-seeker rather than a serious researcher.
The media mockery was instant and brutal, with late-night hosts like Jimmy Kimmel lampooning the special. Devastated, Rosolie fled to India to spend time living near wild elephant herds, believing his career in conservation was completely destroyed.
> "I tried... I took a big swing because I thought it would help my forest, and I hit my head on the ceiling and fell down hard."
- **Specimen "Eleanor" Data**: 18 feet 6 inches in length; 100+ kg empty weight (estimated 200 kg if carrying recent prey like a capybara).
- **Career Repercussions**: The media disaster set Rosolie's professional standing back by nearly a decade, resulting in prominent conservation figures warning him to stay out of South America.
---
[01:26:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=5178s) Overcoming Catastrophic Failure and Misunderstood Snake Behavior
Reflecting on the decade of hardship following the *Eaten Alive* scandal, Rosolie credits the failure with forging his actual path. Drawing a parallel to a quote referenced by Alex Hormosi—that confidence stems from giving yourself irrefutable proof of who you are—Rosolie realized he had to build that proof from scratch. Having spent his first 15 years in the Amazon living out of a backpack and wooden boats without a steady paycheck, health insurance, or institutional backing, he was forced to pivot away from Hollywood shortcuts. The humiliation pushed him back deep into the jungle to develop concrete, real-world land protection systems and create non-profit models like *Junglekeepers*.
When Steven asks what actually occurred during the climax of the suit demonstration, Rosolie explains why the stunt was fundamentally flawed from a biological standpoint. The anaconda simply did not want to consume a human; handlers had to manually coil the snake around his custom suit. Rosolie emphasizes that wild snakes—whether anacondas, Black Mambas, or Spitting Cobras—are defensive animals that naturally seek escape rather than confrontation. If placed on a table, any venomous or giant snake will immediately slide off toward the darkest corner of the room to hide from human presence.
- **Survival Reality**: Spent 15 of his 20 years in the Amazon without health insurance, formal funding, or institutional safety nets.
- **Snake Instincts**: Contrary to media portrayal, wild snakes prioritize fleeing to dark cover over attacking humans.
Here is a detailed, faithful walkthrough of this section of the interview.
[01:29:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=5344s) Handling a Baby Ball Python
Paul Rosolie surprises host Steven Bartlett by introducing a live snake to the set—a baby ball python (also known as a royal python for its striking black and gold patterns). Paul explains that people are naturally terrified of snakes, but he wants to reframe that perspective. Even as a small child, Paul was fascinated by snakes, finding their movements, tongue flicking, and beauty deeply calming. He points out the absurdity of human fear around a baby snake: humans are massive apex predators, while a baby reptile is a completely harmless, vulnerable creature born alone in the world needing to fend for itself. When asked if the snake is dangerous, Paul emphasizes that even if he pinched and hurt her, her bite would barely break human skin as she spends her early life hunting small prey like baby mice, frogs, and small birds.
Steven reveals he has never held a snake before in his life and admits his hands are sweating from tension. Paul guides him through the process, noting that snakes pick up on jittery human energy. He demonstrates how the python anchors her body by wrapping her tail around his fingers while flicking her tongue to sense her environment. When Paul places the baby python into Steven's hands, the host acknowledges feeling tense. The python gently retreats back to Paul's familiar hands. Paul encourages Steven to touch her body, explaining that snakes do not like to be petted like dogs and will pull away from a rubbing thumb; the key to handling them is to simply "be the tree" and let the snake navigate across static hands. He explains that reptiles are ectotherms that rely on external temperatures, noting that on cold jungle days, he frequently warms up wild snakes inside his hands.
- **Species Details:** Ball pythons (*Python regius*) are also called royal pythons due to their black and gold coloration.
- **Diet of a Baby Python:** Baby mice, small birds, and frogs.
- **Behavioral Tips:** Snakes dislike dog-style petting, retreat from direct thumb rubbing, and seek out human hand warmth on cold days because they are ectotherms.
---
[01:33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=5586s) Feeling the Muscular Power of Pythons
Paul brings out a second, larger ball python of the same species to demonstrate its physical growth. He notes that ball pythons are essentially the "golden retrievers of snakes"—gentle, placid animals accustomed to being handled by responsible owners. While small pythons can eventually grow to double the size of this second specimen, neither poses any danger or risk of biting. Paul demonstrates the sheer muscular power of the snake as it easily supports its entire body weight while climbing up his arm, quipping, "You think pull-ups are hard."
Steven takes the larger ball python onto his wrist, visibly anxious while Paul jokes, "Remember, if he does bite..." before reassuring him. Steven is struck by the dense musculature and beauty of the python. Paul explains the animal's natural life cycle of catching a small prey item, returning to its burrow, and digesting for a week before emerging again. When placed on the slick podcast table, the python struggles to move because its belly scales need rough surfaces like ground, rocks, or pebbles to push against; without traction, it moves like an inchworm. Paul forces Steven to confront his fear by instructing him to pick up the snake by its body and hand it back. Despite Steven feeling like the snake is "side eyeing" him, he successfully picks it up and passes it back to Paul.
- **Snake Locomotion:** Pythons require friction on their belly scales to push off surfaces; flat, slick surfaces force them into inefficient inchworm movements.
- **Feeding Pattern:** Pythons digest a single meal in a burrow over the course of an entire week.
---
[01:37:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=5855s) Facing a Granite Burmese Python Live on Set
Paul escalates the encounter by bringing out a much larger, heavier snake: a granite Burmese python, which he notes is the closest experience to holding a wild anaconda that he could bring to the studio. As Paul drapes the heavy snake across his own neck, Steven gasps, "What the fuck is my life?" and nervously asks if the snake could kill him. Paul clarifies that while Burmese pythons can grow up to 18 feet long and eventually take down full-grown deer, this specific snake is still a young growing juvenile.
Paul coaxes Steven into holding the Burmese python across his hands and shoulders, instructing him to remain calm and just "be the tree." As the heavy snake moves around the back of Steven's head, Steven panics over a loud hissing sound, but Paul reassures him it is just the snake's deep breathing as it grips for balance. The interaction gets chaotic when the python firmly coils its tail around Steven's physical copy of *The Diary Of A CEO* book and the edge of the table. Paul tells Steven to "massage the tail" to make her loosen her grip, which causes the snake to hiss louder.
A tense, humorous struggle ensues as Steven tries to pull the snake's tail up onto the table. Steven exclaims that his eyes are "popping out of my head" and insists the snake is too heavy and strong to budge, feeling like pure muscle. Paul jokingly urges him to pretend they are in the Amazon and the snake is strangling Paul to death. Steven manages to haul the python's tail up, freeing his book while marveling at the incredible physical strength of the animal.
- **Burmese Python Facts:** Can grow up to 18 feet long and are capable of constricting and consuming full-grown deer.
- **Physical Feel:** Steven describes the snake's skin as surprisingly soft on the surface, but backed by rigid, unyielding muscle.
---
[01:43:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6184s) Snake Myths and the World's Largest Constrictors
As the Burmese python relaxes across the table, Paul discusses how film depictions like *Anaconda* have given humans an exaggerated, fear-based misconception of snakes. In reality, even large constrictors are placid creatures that primarily seek out a dark, quiet place to rest. He explains that while Burmese pythons start small eating rats, birds, and frogs, mature adults can target large mammals like dogs and deer.
Steven asks if giant pythons eat humans. Paul notes that Burmese pythons are not confirmed man-eaters. However, reticulated pythons—which hold the record for the longest snake species on Earth—are confirmed man-eaters with documented cases on YouTube of humans being consumed. He contrasts this with anacondas, which are the largest and heaviest snakes on Earth by mass, noting that different snake species have entirely different temperaments, just like different dog breeds. Steven concludes that despite the initial fear rooted in movie tropes, seeing and holding these animals up close reveals how beautiful they truly are.
- **Snake Size Records:**
- **Green Anaconda:** The *biggest* (heaviest/most massive) snake on Earth.
- **Reticulated Python:** The *longest* snake on Earth, and a confirmed human man-eater.
- **Burmese Python Human Risk:** Not confirmed man-eaters, unlike the reticulated python.
***
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<Elicitation label="Summarize snake handling rules" query="Summarize the snake handling rules and safety tips mentioned in this episode" query_intent="CLICKABLE_SUGGESTION" />
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Here is a detailed, faithful walkthrough of this section of the transcript, capturing the specific facts, stories, and nuance from the conversation.
---
[01:44:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6248s) Handling the Burmese Python and Respecting Predators
As Paul Rosolie holds the large Burmese python on set, Steven Bartlett notes how deeply the snake has nestled under the table, observing that her body is "really in there." Paul explains that while pythons are massive, anacondas actually have even larger bodies. He points out key behavioral traits to keep in mind when handling big constrictors: they dislike being touched on the head, and they especially dislike having their cloaca (the vent at the base of the tail) touched. When Steven asks whether people should be afraid of snakes, Paul clarifies that fear isn't the right emotion—people should respect snakes in the exact same way they respect heights.
Paul humorously encourages the python to "go get Steven" and "go get the diary," leading Steven to ask if the snake would eat a banana. Paul explains that snakes are obligate carnivores, meaning they can only consume other animals—essentially whatever prey fits in their mouths. He brings up the ecological disaster in Florida, where introduced Burmese pythons have no natural predators capable of keeping them in check. As a result, they are devouring native alligators, birds, and other wildlife. While this invasive status gives them terrible public relations in the West, Paul emphasizes that in their native Asian habitats, they are magnificent apex predators.
When Steven asks if the snake can bite, Paul confirms that she absolutely can. She possesses large, sharp teeth designed to latch securely onto prey, meaning a bite would draw significant blood. Paul gives the python immense credit for staying calm and gentle under the studio lights. As the snake crawls closer to Steven and tries to hide under the furniture, Paul massages the base of her tail and lightheartedly jokes about her intent before deciding to hand her off to the camera crew. Steven expresses awe at the creature, calling her majestic, beautiful, and slightly scary.
- **Dietary Classification**: Snakes are obligate carnivores and cannot digest plant matter like bananas.
- **Invasive Impact**: Introduced Burmese pythons in Florida are decimating native ecosystems by preying on native birds, mammals, and even adult alligators.
---
[01:46:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6378s) Note on the Diary of a CEO Inner Circle
Steven Bartlett takes a brief moment to speak directly to the audience about launching a private community called the "Inner Circle" for *The Diary Of A CEO*. He explains that this closed community will give the first 10,000 members exclusive access to unreleased clips, interview briefs from his iPad, behind-the-scenes footage, and episodes that were never publicly released.
- **Community Access**: Offered exclusively to the first 10,000 members via `doaccircle.com`.
- **Exclusive Content**: Includes guest prep briefs, unreleased episodes, behind-the-scenes footage, and direct feedback channels with Steven.
---
[01:47:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6461s) Loging Time as a Beginner and Helping with the Bags
Steven redirects the conversation to Paul’s personal journey, asking what advice he would give to a young person pursuing an ambitious dream based on his 15 years spent living barefoot in the jungle with a machete. Paul emphasizes that everyone must log time as a beginner to earn the right to become a master. He cites a favorite opening quote from his book: *"The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."*
Reflecting on his early days, Paul recalls how he couldn't even catch a fish and looked up at conservation biologists with imposter syndrome, believing he would never be one of them because he lacked the academic grades. Today, leading a global movement and a massive conservation organization, he frequently receives messages from young people asking how to break into the field or follow their dreams.
Paul shares advice he recently gave to a young student who wanted to study great white sharks but felt discouraged by how competitive marine biology programs were. Paul advised him to stop asking for permission, get off his phone, finish school, and head directly to the docks where the top marine biologists depart. He told the student to offer to carry their bags, prove himself useful, take photos that help communicate their research, and stay consistent. Eventually, hard work and presence turn an outsider into a core team member.
- **Core Quote**: "The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried."
- **Practical Advice**: Rather than waiting for formal permission or academic clearance, show up where the work is happening and make yourself indispensable by helping with basic operational tasks.
---
[01:49:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6558s) Burning the Boats and the Darkest Hour Before the Breakthrough
When Steven asks if Paul is a fan of having a "Plan B," Paul admits he might not be the best role model because he completely "burned the boats" with no backup plan. He cautions against listening to successful people who claim *"if I can do it, anyone can,"* noting that survival stories often hide severe struggles. Paul describes the internal turmoil of reaching his early 30s: at 18, people cheer you on for following your dreams; at 25, it still seems cool; but by 32 or 33, doubt sets in.
Paul shares a poignant story about his father dropping him off because Paul couldn't afford taxis or Ubers. Despite writing a book with HarperCollins that received great reviews, it initially failed to gain commercial traction. He had founded Junglekeepers and converted local loggers and gold miners into conservation rangers to protect 50,000 acres, yet the venture was struggling for survival. His father gently told him, *"We love you no matter what... if you need to jump ship and start over, we'll help you."* Devastated, Paul felt terrified that his life's mission was seen as a temporary phase.
The absolute lowest point came right before the COVID-19 pandemic. When COVID struck, Peru was hit exceptionally hard. Paul's entire team and their families caught the virus and required expensive oxygen tanks. Paul and his team bankrupted themselves and emptied their ecotourism business accounts to send money to Peru to keep their friends and staff alive. Overwhelmed and exhausted after 15 years of relentless pushing, Paul broke down and called his best friend, Mohsin, telling him in secret, *"I quit. I'm out of gas, I'm out of ideas, I'm going to go get a job."* Mohsin refused to let him give up, reminding him of what he had built.
Just one week after that desperate phone call, the universe answered. A philanthropist named Dax Dasilva saw Paul’s viral video explaining the emergency in the Amazon and reached out. Dasilva offered a five-year funding commitment to scale Junglekeepers, provide salaries for Paul and his team, convert more local miners and loggers into rangers, and secure another 100,000 acres of rainforest. This single breakthrough launched their work onto international platforms like the United Nations, proving that continuous effort against a wall of granite eventually breaks through.
- **Financial Strain**: Paul bankrupted his accounts during COVID-19 to buy life-saving oxygen tanks for his conservation staff and their families in Peru.
- **The Turning Point**: One week after deciding to quit, philanthropist Dax Dasilva stepped in with a 5-year funding commitment that saved Junglekeepers and expanded their protected territory by 100,000 acres.
- **Initial Impact**: Mohsin was an essential early team member who joined during the "barefoot machete days" to document the forest destruction on camera.
---
[01:55:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6915s) The Fine Line Between Persistence and "Sad Suicide"
Steven asks Paul how anyone working on a dream can judge whether to keep going or cut their losses. Paul answers candidly that if he had followed rational advice, he would have quit after 10 years. Continuing for 15 years without traditional career progression left him with no formal resume, facing the prospect of becoming a "Jack Sparrow jungle character" with no place in conventional society.
Paul emphasizes that winning requires going "all in," but acknowledges a dark reality from W. Somerset Maugham’s novel *The Razor's Edge*: *"Many are called and few are chosen."* He notes that at a certain point, chasing a dream can shift from ambition into a form of "sad suicide" where maintaining an identity becomes a trap. Reflecting on that risk, Paul admits that having a Plan B might actually be sensible advice for most people.
Steven agrees, warning of the trap of "survivor bias" when successful people give advice from the top of the mountain. It is easy for successful founders or creators to attribute their status entirely to intentional actions while overlooking sheer luck, timing, and fortune. Steven uses his own experience as an example, noting that launching his podcast on YouTube in 2020 happened to coincide with perfect market timing that couldn't have been planned. Steven then brings up a classic historical metaphor about World War II fighter jets to illustrate how survivor bias skews our perception of success...
- **Literary Reference**: Quotes Maugham's *The Razor's Edge* ("Many are called and few are chosen") regarding the fine line between persistent ambition and destructive obsession.
- **Survivor Bias**: The natural tendency for successful individuals to attribute outcomes to skill and grit while ignoring external variables like timing and luck.
Here is a walkthrough of this section of the interview:
[01:58:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7118s) Survivorship Bias and the Danger of Extreme Advice
The discussion kicks off with an examination of survivorship bias, framed by the famous World War II story about analyzing bullet holes on returning aircraft. When military leaders initially planned to reinforce the areas riddled with bullet holes, an engineer astutely pointed out that they should actually reinforce the areas *without* holes—because the planes shot in those unmarked spots didn't make it back to be examined. Steven and Paul reflect on how this applies directly to life and career advice. Steven points out that every frozen body on Mount Everest once belonged to a highly motivated, wealthy individual who believed they were going to succeed, but now they are literally an icicle.
```
"Every one of the frozen bodies on Everest were once a highly motivated rich person that thought they could succeed, and now they're an icicle."
```
Paul admits that even on the day of this recording—having just learned that his book *Junglekeeper* became a *New York Times* bestseller—he feels a sudden instinct to warn people *not* to copy his path. He acknowledges taking extreme, life-threatening risks, not only facing off against anacondas or narco-traffickers, but risking spending his entire life doing something that might yield zero broader benefit. His goal was to find deep purpose and change the world, but he cautions that his life is merely an example of what *one* person did, not a universal template. At the same time, Paul compares the high-stakes risk-taking of human life to a hunting tiger: every time a tiger attacks a large deer, it risks having its skull fractured or teeth kicked out by a hoof—yet "betting the house" is an intrinsic part of nature's game.
[02:01:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7311s) Assembling the "Avengers" and the Power of Relentlessness
Steven notes the poetic nature of Paul’s journey: right when he reached the absolute limit of his personal survival, the torch of helping the Amazon survive was handed to him. Paul responds by invoking the classic storybook archetype—the young hero who helps a beggar cross a bridge and rescues a trapped bird, only for those exact figures to return later and help him defeat the dragon. In Paul's life, his cause gradually attracted a dedicated team: JJ (a local jungle expert with the "keys to the Amazon"), Mosen (a skilled photographer ready to capture the reality on camera), Stefan (who left a corporate role managing teams at Apple to build structure), and Jane Goodall (whom Paul describes as the wise "Gandalf" or wizard mentor guiding them to "get the ring to Mount Doom").
```
"Jane's the mentor... Jane was the one saying, 'This is what you got to do. You got to get the ring to Mount Doom.'"
```
Steven observes that across all fields—sports, business, comedy, or conservation—top performers share a common thread: at some key moment in their "hero's journey," they engaged in an unusual set of actions for an unusual duration. Paul passionately agrees, calling **relentlessness** the single most powerful factor in achieving any dream. When you are lost in a downpour in the dark jungle without a clear trail, you simply have to keep going out of pure obsession. You cannot fake an obsession; logging 10,000 hours at anything requires an underlying, unshakeable love for the craft.
- **Key Team Members Mentioned:**
- **JJ:** Local guide who knows the land intimately.
- **Mosen:** Director of photography capturing visual proof.
- **Stefan:** Former Apple manager who brought operational structure to Junglekeepers.
- **Jane Goodall:** Global icon and primary conservation mentor.
[02:06:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7581s) Finding Meaning, Faith, and the Sacredness of Nature
When asked how he defines meaning, Paul explains that while many link meaning to taking on responsibility, his perspective stems from living at the absolute raw baseline of existence—in the mud with a machete, catching a fish whenever he needs to eat. For him, the physical realities of rain and rocks form a personal religion. He firmly declares his belief in God, calling science "the language of God" rather than an opposing force. He addresses the absurdity of feeling unimpressed by existence, pointing out that humanity is floating on a rock through space, sustained by complex physical and chemical miracles.
```
"Science is the language of God. I don't think that they're opposing forces... The wild is the church."
```
For Paul, nature itself serves as a living temple. Drinking from a pristine river, watching moisture evaporate off his skin in the sun, and knowing that same water will form clouds and fall back as jungle rain makes him feel directly integrated into a sacred cycle. He contrasts this spiritual connection with the destructive traps of modern life—such as drug addiction, deceit, or alcoholism—where short-term gratification can permanently destroy a person's life. Survival in the jungle enforces a rigorous discipline: if you forget to check your boat after a heavy rain, it sinks. In the same way, caring for other human beings and the living creatures around us gives life its ultimate meaning. He scoffs at a viral internet meme telling people they are "as meaningless as a sparrow," arguing that every single species—from hummingbirds spreading pollen to snakes controlling rodent populations—plays a vital, irreplaceable role in the ecosystem.
[02:11:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7905s) Humans as Stewards, Not the Center of the Universe
Steven prompts Paul on whether humans are truly superior or more important than other animals, such as a sparrow or the live snake present in the studio. Paul offers an ecological reality check: if humans were wiped off the Earth tomorrow, ecosystems across the globe would begin healing within days (as seen during COVID-19 lockdowns when wildlife quickly reoccupied empty spaces). Conversely, if ants were wiped out, planetary ecosystems would completely collapse. Therefore, from a purely ecological standpoint, humans are not the most important species.
However, Paul notes that the human brain remains the most complex structure known in the universe. Because of our intellect, our true role is not to dominate or exploit, but to act as **stewards** and "jungle keepers" for the planet. Coming out of the deep wilderness into modern society, Paul often finds people consumed by transient news cycles and petty outrage. He emphasizes that civilizations inevitably rise and fall, but destroying the oceans and cutting down the rainforests represents a permanent, "one-way door in history" that humanity cannot afford to step through.
<FollowUp label="Want to continue to part 10 of the transcript?" query="Write a detailed walkthrough of part 10 of the transcript, following the same formatting guidelines."/>
### [02:13:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7995s) Mentorship, Building Organizations, and Taking Action
Paul Rosolie emphasizes that while ecological collapse is a looming threat, it is not too late to act, echoing Jane Goodall's sentiment that there is still hope—though this generation may be the last to have it. Drawing a parallel to Winston Churchill leading during World War II, Rosolie argues that we are alive at one of the most exciting times in history. His primary advice to young people feeling meaningless or eager to make a difference is to avoid starting their own projects right away. Instead, they should seek out a master or mentor doing work they admire—whether it is tracking snow leopards in the mountains or running a business—and spend five years learning under them to build essential skills.
Rosolie shares how his non-profit organization, Junglekeepers, grew beyond initial physical grit. While he and his co-founder Juan Julio "JJ" Torres could hack through the jungle with machetes and catch anacondas, and Mohsin Kazmi took photographs, their "motor was turning, but it wasn't starting" until Stefan, who had previously managed teams at Apple, joined. Stefan brought crucial operational skills, optimizing spreadsheets and organizing ranger teams to save significant funding. Similarly, billionaire Dax Dasilva stepped in not only to provide funding but also to act as a business consultant, advising them on how to structure their ranger program effectively.
- Rosolie's core career advice: Spend 5 years working directly under an established expert before attempting to launch a solo initiative or save the world.
- Key Junglekeepers team members mentioned: Co-founder Juan Julio "JJ" Torres, photographer Mohsin Kazmi, operations lead Stefan (ex-Apple), and major donor/advisor Dax Dasilva.
### [02:15:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8135s) AI, Humanoid Robots, and Modern Hysteria
The host draws a sharp contrast between the uncontacted tribes living in the Amazon and the rapid technological acceleration in California and Texas, pointing to neural microchips, predictions of a billion humanoid robots, and superintelligent AI models. In response, Rosolie admits that while he loves modern technology like flight, advanced medical care, and digital cameras, he finds the current public obsession with AI overblown. He quips that people need to "shut up, go outside, and touch some grass" rather than surrendering to "anticipatory doom." He suggests that as society becomes flooded with automated content, human appreciation for genuine art, physical nature, and real human connection will actually increase.
The host proposes a hypothesis that as AI and robotics eliminate the need for centralized city-based labor, wealthy individuals and families will increasingly move to the countryside, farmland, and natural habitats for mental health and well-being. Rosolie agrees, pointing out that Jensen Huang, the CEO of Nvidia, explained on Joe Rogan's podcast how AI optimizes human productivity rather than outright replacing workers—such as making radiologists far more effective at their jobs. Rosolie expresses bewilderment at people spiraling over news headlines while he is actively facing real-world dangers in the jungle.
- The host highlights predictions of over 1 billion humanoid robots and AI models becoming smarter than all humans within a few years.
- Rosolie references Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang's appearance on *The Joe Rogan Experience* to illustrate how technology augments rather than eliminates human labor.
- Rosolie criticizes societal focus on colonizing Mars over fixing Earth's current environmental challenges, comparing it to "a kid wanting to take over the company before cleaning his room."
### [02:20:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8457s) Media Consumption, Doom Scrolling, and Optimism
Rosolie reveals that he does not follow daily news cycles or keep clutter on his phone, observing that many people hold onto hysteria because they are deeply invested in negative news. He argues that humanity is living in its most peaceful era, marked by expanding medical capabilities and growing cross-species compassion. During a recent conservation conference, he met people launching practical, impactful projects—from supplying menstrual pads to young girls in Africa to protecting cheetah populations.
He criticizes the modern media ecosystem for overloading human brains with global tragedies, noting that humans were evolutionarily wired to understand only the events of their local village. To safeguard his mental health, Rosolie strictly curates his Instagram feed to show only content he finds inspiring, such as elephant rescues and independent artists, avoiding generalized news feeds entirely.
- Rosolie contrasts news-driven doom scrolling with real-world progress, such as humanitarian and animal conservation efforts worldwide.
- He emphasizes that constant exposure to global tragedy goes against natural human evolutionary biology, which is adapted for small-community awareness.
### [02:22:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8565s) Ayahuasca and the "Overboiled" Mega-Dose
The host brings up his own trip to the Amazon with his fiancée, noting he was unable to take plant medicine due to dietary preparation guidelines, and asks Rosolie about his personal experience with Ayahuasca—a traditional psychoactive Amazonian brew. Rosolie recounts a story detailed in his book involving an elderly native shaman who was a lifelong friend of JJ's father. During one ceremony, the 80-plus-year-old shaman accidentally fell asleep while brewing the mixture, causing it to over-boil and concentrate into an unintentional mega-dose.
Instead of a typical vision of geometric shapes or emotional reflection, Rosolie experienced an intensely overwhelming trip, feeling as though he was witnessing the Big Bang, taking the form of various jungle animals, and floating as a shapeless entity in outer space between solar systems. When morning came, the team found the elderly shaman lying naked in a nearby stream like "E.T. at the end of the movie." The shaman announced, "I overboiled the Ayahuasca... By the way, I retire"—a retirement that lasted exactly one week. Rosolie explains that while native cultures view Ayahuasca as a sacred gift from the gods to bridge the physical and spirit worlds, his own experience was so terrifyingly intense that he would never recommend it to anyone.
> "It's like you've lived in a gigantic mansion with 3,000 rooms your entire life, but you've only ever lived in one... Then you take this stuff and all of a sudden you go, 'Whoa, there's so many rooms and you have access to them... and you're being sucked through all of them at once.'"
- Ayahuasca is described as a traditional psychoactive Amazonian brew derived from specific plant combinations.
- Indigenous creation myths cited by shamans attribute the formation of the Amazon River system to the Anaconda God descending from the Milky Way.
- Rosolie points out the improbability of ancient humans discovering the exact chemical synergy among 40,000 Amazonian tree and plant species by pure trial and error.
### [02:26:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8808s) The Mission of Junglekeepers
Transitioning to his life's work, Rosolie details the origin and operational model of Junglekeepers, the non-profit organization featured on his shirt and in his book, *Junglekeeper: What It Takes to Change the World*. After years of working closely with local communities to understand the ground reality, the team created a system designed to protect threatened areas of the Amazon rainforest. Rather than relying on traditional top-down conservation grants or external intervention, Junglekeepers directly hires local former loggers and gold miners, employing them as full-time conservation rangers to defend their own land.
Here is a detailed, faithful walkthrough of the provided transcript section.
---
[02:27:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8852s) Funding Conservation Through Modern Social Media and Junglekeepers
Paul Rosolie explains that conservation efforts no longer rely solely on writing grants or executing government contracts. By leveraging modern technology and social media for good, his organization, Junglekeepers, has transformed how the world funds rainforest preservation. Instagram served as the platform that secured their very first major donor, and podcasts alongside social media continue to connect them with thousands of individual supporters across the globe. Junglekeepers now stands as the most direct route for people worldwide to assist indigenous communities in safeguarding the Amazon.
Through their monthly donor program on `junglekeepers.org`, contributions ranging from $5, $10, $100, up to $1,000 per month go straight into protecting land and employing local rangers. Rosolie highlights that by giving up the equivalent of a single Starbucks coffee a month, ordinary people are directly protecting uncontacted tribes, saving endangered species, and preserving countless animal lives. Steven Bartlett expresses his deep admiration for the project, browses the site live during the recording, and publicly commits to signing up for a monthly subscription. Rosolie compares this collective action to the "shopping cart principle"—if nobody participates, the system fails, but if everyone contributes a small amount, humanity can make history.
* **Website Platform:** `junglekeepers.org` allows for one-time or recurring monthly donations ($5 to $1,000+).
* **Direct Impact:** Contributions directly pay for local ranger jobs, rainforest land protection, and community support.
* **Host Commitment:** Steven Bartlett signs up for a monthly donation on set and urges listeners with the financial means to join.
---
[02:29:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8987s) Ancient Jungle Medicine vs. Modern Antibiotics
The conversation shifts to the immense, often overlooked medicinal value stored within the Amazon ecosystem. Steven notes how much of our modern medical research and oxygen supply originate in these tropical forests. He brings up an extraordinary story he heard about Rosolie contracting an infection that modern antibiotics could not cure, which was subsequently healed overnight by a native jungle sap.
Rosolie points to a smooth, round scar on his right arm that resembles a cigar burn to tell the full story. In 2012, while living in a mud hut in India tracking wild tigers (whose population dropped to 3,000 before recovering to over 5,000 today), he contracted tularemia. The disease is so extraordinarily rare—typically tick-borne through infected rabbits—that when he returned to New York, an infectious disease specialist called in his medical fellows and students to observe the deep pocket of pus in Rosolie's right elbow, declaring, *"Guys, you're never going to see this again."* Despite being placed on heavy double antibiotics alongside a prior MRSA infection, the wound refused to heal after two months of bed rest.
Ignoring his parents' strict warnings not to return to the jungle with an active infection, Rosolie flew back to Peru to salvage his endangered research station. When his indigenous partner, Juan Julio "JJ" Durand, saw the bandaged arm, he marched Rosolie straight into the rainforest. JJ struck a specific tree with a machete, harvested its milky white sap, and rubbed it over the wound. When exposed to heat, the sap took on a latex-like quality, hardening into a tight rubbery seal over the oozing infection. JJ then mixed a small amount of the sap into a concoction of fresh leaf juice and had Rosolie drink it. By the next morning, the two-month-old infection was completely denatured and killed overnight.
Rosolie shares a second instance of indigenous medical technology: after getting impaled by a stingray's venomous spine, JJ's brother and nephew harvested bark from two distinct trees, boiled it into a poultice, and successfully extracted the agonizing venom from his foot using plant medicine.
* **Tularemia Infection (2012):** Rare bacterial disease contracted while tracking tigers in India; caused a deep, non-healing pus pocket in Rosolie's right elbow.
* **Indigenous Sap Treatment:** Applied topically as a heat-activated rubbery seal and ingested with leaf juice; eradicated the antibiotic-resistant infection overnight.
* **Stingray Sting Remedy:** A boiled two-bark poultice was used by JJ's indigenous family members to draw venom directly out of Rosolie's foot.
* **Tiger Population Numbers:** Mentioned as dropping from 100,000 in 1900 down to 3,000, before recovering back up to roughly 5,000 today.
---
[02:33:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=9213s) Preserving Endangered Languages and Cultural Knowledge
Beyond the physical extinction of animal species, Rosolie warns of the tragic loss of human cultural diversity and indigenous languages. Quoting renowned anthropologist Wade Davis, Rosolie emphasizes that *"other cultures are not failed attempts at being you"*—rather, each culture is a distinct manifestation of the human experience, like different blossoms growing on the exact same vine.
When modern infrastructure penetrates isolated regions, rapid cultural homogenization follows. Roads bring in outside commerce, and younger generations transition entirely to national languages like Spanish, abandoning their ancestral dialects. Rosolie has observed the exact same pattern in rural Indian villages, where young people flock to major cities driven by the internet, Instagram, and TikTok in search of financial gain. He finds it baffling that anyone could feel hopeless or apathetic in today's world, emphasizing that we live in a unique historical moment where ancient ecological wisdom can still be saved while cutting-edge technology gives us unprecedented access to global knowledge.
* **Wade Davis Quote:** *"Other cultures are not failed attempts at being you."*
* **Drivers of Cultural Loss:** Road construction, language shift (to Spanish or regional trade languages), urban migration, and social media connectivity.
---
[02:33:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=9239s) Love, Marriage, and Crocodile Catching in the Amazon
Noticing a new wedding ring on Rosolie's finger, Steven asks how someone who spends up to seven months a year deep in the jungle—surrounded by botflies, anaconda encounters, and threats from armed narco-traffickers—manages to find and maintain a healthy romantic relationship. Rosolie laughs, revealing he had actually been married just two weeks prior and had completely given up on finding a partner who could fit into his extreme lifestyle.
His perspective changed a little over a year ago while delivering a lecture about the Amazon in California, where he met his now-wife. Realizing they shared an instant connection and similar outlooks on life, Rosolie put her to the ultimate test on her very first trip to his jungle station. On the night she arrived, he took her out on the river to catch wild caimans. Floating neck-deep in the pitch-black river under the stars of the Milky Way, they held a smooth-fronted caiman together while he showed her its nictitating membrane and armored scales. Looking over at her holding hands in the dark water, Rosolie realized she was the one. He later proposed to her high above the forest canopy inside a treehouse surrounded by mist and jungle sounds.
Rosolie notes that his wife is far more than a companion—she is an integral leader in his work. While Rosolie admits to struggling with the modern world (laughing about how he was confused by Tesla door handles on his way to the studio), his wife manages logistics, donor outreach, and keeps him grounded, reminding him to educate the public on everyday rainforest marvels like leaf-cutter ants.
* **Marriage Timeline:** Married two weeks prior to the recording; met his wife a year earlier at a speaking event in California.
* **The "Jungle Test":** Catching smooth-fronted caimans while wading neck-deep in Amazonian blackwater on her first night.
* **The Canopy Proposal:** Proposed in a high canopy treehouse amidst rainforest mist.
---
[02:36:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=9414s) The Night the Leaf-Cutter Ants Dismantled the Tent
Steven brings up a viral video Rosolie posted on Instagram that made him double-check his own dream of doing a survival expedition in the Amazon. Rosolie plays the audio of the nightmare experience, which took place at 2:00 a.m. deep in the rainforest:
> *"Right now, my tent is being dismantled by leaf cutter ants... there's about 10 million leaf cutter ants outside of this tent. And all they are doing is cutting leaf-sized holes out of my tent. They are carrying away the nylon into the night. And because the leaf cutter ants are working to dismantle every single thing that I own, they're opening up holes big enough for me to put my fist through, which means everything else in the Amazon is coming into my tent... I just woke up because there's a leaf cutter ant using its pinser jaws to bite my ear to try and carry off a piece."*
Trapped inside the collapsing nylon structure during a torrential rainstorm, Rosolie spent four agonizing hours slappping away an invasion of ants, termites, mosquitoes, unidentified centipedes, hoppers, and moths while trying to avoid stepping outside into swarms of mosquitoes. He highlights that camping in the wild sometimes means pitching your tent in the wrong spot, leaving you at the absolute mercy of the "gods of the jungle."
---
[02:38:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=9524s) The Jungle Energy Economy and the Recycling Machine
Expanding on the leaf-cutter ant ordeal, Rosolie describes the rainforest as a fierce, relentless "recycling machine" operating on a strict energy economy. Every single organism in the jungle—from giant jaguars to butterflies, leaves, and human explorers—is ultimately targeted as raw calories to be broken down and reused. Without fungal mycelium constantly decomposing organic matter across the forest floor, the Amazon would choke under its own decaying leaves and cease to exist.
Rosolie breaks down the intense vertical competition for sunlight driving the entire ecosystem:
* **The Canopy Titans:** Massive rainforest trees stretch up to 160 feet into the air to capture raw tropical sunlight, which powers their growth.
* **Epiphytes:** Orchids, lichens, and pitcher plants hitchhike onto high branches to steal spatial access to light.
* **Understory Shadow Dwellers:** Less than 3% of total sunlight penetrates to the forest floor. Understory saplings wait in total shade for years, capturing tiny slivers of daily light until a canopy giant falls, triggering an aggressive, sun-fueled race to the top.
* **Fungal Farming:** Leaf-cutter ants slice through chemically protected tree leaves, carrying the fragments underground not to eat them directly, but to cultivate and farm specialized fungus—making them one of the few non-human species on Earth to practice agriculture.
When a human walks through the forest, they are essentially a massive walking battery of thermal energy and calories. Parasites, predators, and decomposers—from mosquitoes and leeches to jaguars and fungi—are constantly waiting to break human bodies down back into the ecosystem.
* **Canopy Height:** Trees reach up to 160 feet high to secure solar energy.
* **Floor Light Penetration:** Less than 3% of available tropical sunlight reaches the rainforest ground.
* **Leaf-Cutter Agriculture:** Ants harvest leaves to farm subterranean fungal gardens.
---
[02:41:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=9672s) What Rosolie Fears Most and Reason for Hope
When asked if anything truly scares him after two decades of facing deadly wildlife, cartels, and extreme conditions, Rosolie admits his greatest fear is that humanity won't wake up quickly enough to save the global ecological systems that keep us alive.
Despite this fear, he remains a dedicated optimist. He believes humanity is currently navigating a dark, precarious period, but insists that recovery is entirely possible when people decide to act. To illustrate this optimism, he points back to wild tiger conservation: in 1900, world tiger populations stood at roughly 100,000 before plummeting down to a perilous low of 3,000. Through focused global conservation effort, those numbers have successfully rebounded above 5,000, proving that even species on the absolute brink of total collapse can be brought back if we care enough to act.
* **Primary Fear:** Global apathy and failure to protect Earth's life-support systems before critical tipping points are crossed.
* **Conservation Success Model:** Wild tiger populations rebounding from 3,000 back up over 5,000 as proof that ecosystem recovery is achievable.
[02:41:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=9696s) Reasons for Conservation Optimism and the Storyteller's Calling
Paul Rosolie expresses a deeply grounded optimism regarding the state of the planet, pointing to several massive conservation victories throughout recent history. He notes that tiger populations are finally rebounding back up to around 5,000 or 6,000 individuals. He recounts how humpback whales, which once numbered around 130,000, were hunted down to a perilous low of roughly 1,000 individuals before commercial whaling was banned, allowing them to return near pre-whaling levels today. Similar recoveries have occurred with bald eagles, and humanity even managed to repair the hole in the ozone layer—the single protective shield keeping the planet from being incinerated by the sun.
Reflecting on his book, *Junglekeeper: What It Takes to Change the World*, Rosolie admits he initially felt uncomfortable with the subtitle because it felt too "hefty," but he ultimately embraced it because people need to remember that changing the fate of the world is entirely possible. Host Steven Bartlett praises Rosolie as a master storyteller, questioning where he honed the skill since there are no storytelling classes in the Amazon. Rosolie credits his narrative instincts to the books his parents read to him as a child, including works by J.R.R. Tolkien, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and Jane Goodall.
* **Tiger Recovery:** Wild tiger populations have bounced back to approximately 5,000–6,000.
* **Humpback Whale Comeback:** Humpback whale numbers plummeted from 130,000 down to ~1,000 before whaling bans allowed them to nearly reach historical levels.
* **Ozone Layer Success:** Humanity successfully took global action to repair the damaged ozone layer.
* **Storytelling Influences:** Rosolie attributes his narrative capabilities to childhood readings of J.R.R. Tolkien, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and Jane Goodall.
---
[02:43:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=9811s) The Final Question: Regrets and the Mission Ahead
Following the show's closing tradition, Steven reads a question left by the previous undisclosed guest: "If you only had three years left to live, what would you regret not doing? And are you working on that now? If no, why not?" Without hesitation, Rosolie shares that his greatest regret would be leaving his mission in the Amazon unfinished. He stresses that we are at a critical tipping point where humanity will either win and save the rainforest or lose it entirely.
Rosolie explains that three years would barely be enough time to see the mission through to fruition, especially when so many living "heartbeats" in the jungle are depending on their efforts. He feels like they are still inside the wave, working through the barrel, with so much potential within reach. Bartlett concludes the conversation by urging listeners to support Rosolie's non-profit, Junglekeepers, emphasizing that even small donations compound to make a massive difference on the front lines. The episode ends on a lighthearted note with banter about Rosolie convincing Steven to try an ice bath, leading into a preview snippet for the upcoming guest, Wim Hof.
* **The 3-Year Regret:** Rosolie's biggest regret would be failing to complete the mission to protect the Amazon and all the living beings dependent on it.
* **Call to Action:** Host Steven Bartlett encourages viewers to pledge financial support to Junglekeepers, noting how small contributions aggregate into meaningful protection.
## Notable quotes
> [44:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=2692s) Stop cutting down our trees. Our trees are our gods. — Integrantes de la tribu no contactada
> [01:03:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=3805s) If I handed you a lighter and a full cup of gasoline and said, 'Have all the sticks you want in the jungle,' you still couldn't make me a fire right now. — Paul Rosolie
> [01:15:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4553s) I'd volunteer. I would have cut off my foot to save the forest. I'll do anything to save the forest. — Paul Rosolie
> [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4686s) On behalf of the forests that I love, thank you, Paul, for writing this book. — Dr. Jane Goodall
> [01:22:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=4929s) I tried... I took a big swing because I thought it would help my forest, and I hit my head on the ceiling and fell down hard. — Paul Rosolie
> [01:46:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6378s) The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried. — Paul Rosolie
> [01:46:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6378s) Many are called and few are chosen — W. Somerset Maugham
> [01:55:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=6918s) Every one of the frozen bodies on Everest were once a highly motivated rich person that thought they could succeed, and now they're an icicle. — Steven Bartlett
> [01:58:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7111s) Jane's the mentor... Jane was the one saying, 'This is what you got to do. You got to get the ring to Mount Doom.' — Paul Rosolie
> [02:02:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=7371s) Science is the language of God. I don't think that they're opposing forces... The wild is the church. — Paul Rosolie
> [02:18:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8325s) It's like you've lived in a gigantic mansion with 3,000 rooms your entire life, but you've only ever lived in one... Then you take this stuff and all of a sudden you go, 'Whoa, there's so many rooms and you have access to them... and you're being sucked through all of them at once.' — Paul Rosolie
> [02:25:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8747s) Guys, you're never going to see this again. — Infectious Disease Specialist
> [02:29:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=8973s) Other cultures are not failed attempts at being you. — Wade Davis
> [04:16:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=15414s) Right now, my tent is being dismantled by leaf cutter ants... there's about 10 million leaf cutter ants outside of this tent. And all they are doing is cutting leaf-sized holes out of my tent. They are carrying away the nylon into the night. And because the leaf cutter ants are working to dismantle every single thing that I own, they're opening up holes big enough for me to put my fist through, which means everything else in the Amazon is coming into my tent... I just woke up because there's a leaf cutter ant using its pinser jaws to bite my ear to try and carry off a piece. — Paul Rosolie
> [04:23:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR7S2Q3c04g&t=15811s) If you only had three years left to live, what would you regret not doing? And are you working on that now? If no, why not? — Steven Bartlett
## Mentioned
Alex Hormosi, Ancient Jungle Medicine, Anaconda God, Anacondas, Ants, Apex Predators, Apocalypto, Apple, Atmosphere/Mist River, Atmospheric Rivers, Ayahuasca, Ball Pythons, Bamboo, Burmese Pythons, Caimans, Capuchin Monkeys, Cartels, Dax Dasilva, Discovery Channel, Downton Abbey, Eaten Alive, Eleanor the Anaconda, Expedition Amazon, George, Giant Green Anaconda, Gold Mining, Good Morning America, HarperCollins, Humpback Whales, Invasive Species in Florida, Intuit QuickBooks, JJ (Juan Julio Torres), Jane Goodall, Jensen Huang, Jimmy Kimmel, Joe Rogan, John Muir, Junglekeeper: What It Takes to Change the World, Junglekeepers, Leaf-Cutter Ants, Los Calatos, Mosen (Mohsin Kazmi), Nawa People, Nvidia, Ozone Layer, PETA, Pipedrive, Reticulated Pythons, Robotics and AI, Royal Pythons, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Stefan, Steve Irwin, Steven Bartlett, Teddy Roosevelt, Tesla, The Diary Of A CEO, Tinamou Birds, Tigers, Tolkien, Tularemia, Uncontacted Tribes, Wade Davis, Wim Hof, World War II Survivorship Bias
Conservationist Paul Rosolie argues that safeguarding the Amazon requires looking beyond both romanticized wilderness myths and fatalistic environmental doom to support aggressive, ground-level territorial protection. Drawing on two decades in the Peruvian rainforest, he contends that securing indigenous sovereignty and employing local extractive workers as rangers provide the only viable defense against irreversible ecological collapse.
The Biological Architecture of the Amazon (2:34)
Rosolie characterizes the Amazon not as an undifferentiated expanse of trees, but as an indispensable planetary organ containing one-fifth of Earth's liquid freshwater and generating one-fifth of its oxygen. Extending down from the Andes into the Western Amazon, this ecosystem represents the planet's apex terrestrial biodiversity and climax community, sheltered beneath a 150- to 160-foot canopy that houses roughly half of all rainforest life. Above this green cover flows a massive "atmospheric river" created by plant evapotranspiration, carrying an invisible volume of water that exceeds the discharge of the Amazon River itself.
Underneath the canopy, the rainforest operates as a fierce, sun-deprived energy economy and recycling system where less than 3% of sunlight penetrates to the forest floor. Species survive through intense specialization: understory saplings endure decades in stasis waiting for canopy falls, leaf-cutter ants practice agriculture by using harvested leaves to cultivate subterranean fungi, and expansive mycelial networks decompose fallen organic matter to keep the forest from choking under its own waste.
The Precarious Reality of Uncontacted Tribes (43:38)
Nomadic indigenous groups in the deep Western Amazon, such as the Mashco, exist entirely outside the trajectory of modern history, possessing no contact with modern nation-states, metals, or industrial tools. Rosolie warns against romanticizing their lives as peaceful idylls, emphasizing that their existence is shaped by relentless caloric competition, lethal inter-tribal clashes, and constant exposure to untreated illness. Furthermore, contact with outsiders carries existential hazards: lacking biological immunity, uncontacted populations face devastating mortality from common pathogens, while contact with modern commerce rapidly dissolves ancestral culture and language.
Encroaching illegal loggers, wildcat gold miners, and narco-traffickers are steadily compressing these nomadic clans into smaller territories. In documented encounters on the riverbank, warriors wielding seven-foot longbows delivered an urgent message to halt deforestation, asking observers how to distinguish hostile outsiders armed with guns from peaceful entities. Because formal law enforcement is completely absent in remote tributaries, encounters remain volatile; uncontacted groups regularly stage ambushes coordinated via animal calls, and accidental run-ins have resulted in fatal arrow wounds and severe lung punctures among local boatmen.
Frontline Conservation Through Local Ranger Networks (18:10)
Because distant government agencies exercise zero physical presence or jurisdiction in the deep river networks, Rosolie asserts that conservation cannot succeed through traditional bureaucratic declarations. In response to commercial loggers destroying ancient, thousand-year-old stands, Rosolie and indigenous partner Juan Julio "JJ" Torres established Junglekeepers. Rather than fighting surrounding populations, the organization hires former illegal loggers and gold miners as salaried conservation rangers, converting former resource extractors into active territorial defenders.
To date, the non-profit protects 130,000 acres along strategic river corridors and is working toward establishing a national park covering 300,000 acres of intact watershed. Rosolie highlights that scaling field survival into durable protection required pairing indigenous jungle expertise with outside operational discipline, including operational restructuring by former technology executives and business guidance from conservation donors, turning raw presence into an enforceable protection model.
Wildlife Misperceptions and Grounded Conservation Optimism (161:36)
Public panic regarding apex jungle predators stems largely from sensationalist media rather than biological reality. Handling green anacondas and Burmese pythons, Rosolie demonstrates that even giant constrictors are placid animals that instinctively retreat from humans rather than attack, though missteps in handling can trigger immense constriction capable of locking human joints and flexing bones. When broadcast media cuts out valid tracking data in pursuit of shock entertainment—as occurred during his television projects—it exacerbates fear and diverts attention from legitimate biological study.
Despite severe ongoing habitat destruction, Rosolie rejects paralyzing "anticipatory doom," pointing to verified historical precedents of environmental recovery. He highlights that wild tiger numbers have rebounded from 3,000 to over 5,000, humpback whales returned to near pre-whaling levels from a low of 1,000, bald eagles recovered, and international treaties successfully repaired the ozone layer. These outcomes demonstrate that targeted, persistent conservation intervention can reverse systemic environmental decline.
Rosolie warns that the current generation represents the final window to prevent the Amazon from reaching a catastrophic tipping point. However, severe obstacles persist: uncontacted groups remain exposed to armed criminal incursions, and grassroots ranger programs operate under intense financial fragility and physical danger in ungoverned borderlands.
[44:52] Integrantes de la tribu no contactada: Stop cutting down our trees. Our trees are our gods.
[63:25] Paul Rosolie: If I handed you a lighter and a full cup of gasoline and said, 'Have all the sticks you want in the jungle,' you still couldn't make me a fire right now.
[75:53] Paul Rosolie: I'd volunteer. I would have cut off my foot to save the forest. I'll do anything to save the forest.
[78:06] Dr. Jane Goodall: On behalf of the forests that I love, thank you, Paul, for writing this book.
[82:09] Paul Rosolie: I tried... I took a big swing because I thought it would help my forest, and I hit my head on the ceiling and fell down hard.
[106:18] Paul Rosolie: The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried.
[106:18] W. Somerset Maugham: Many are called and few are chosen
[115:18] Steven Bartlett: Every one of the frozen bodies on Everest were once a highly motivated rich person that thought they could succeed, and now they're an icicle.
[118:31] Paul Rosolie: Jane's the mentor... Jane was the one saying, 'This is what you got to do. You got to get the ring to Mount Doom.'
[122:51] Paul Rosolie: Science is the language of God. I don't think that they're opposing forces... The wild is the church.
[138:45] Paul Rosolie: It's like you've lived in a gigantic mansion with 3,000 rooms your entire life, but you've only ever lived in one... Then you take this stuff and all of a sudden you go, 'Whoa, there's so many rooms and you have access to them... and you're being sucked through all of them at once.'
[145:47] Infectious Disease Specialist: Guys, you're never going to see this again.
[149:33] Wade Davis: Other cultures are not failed attempts at being you.
[256:54] Paul Rosolie: Right now, my tent is being dismantled by leaf cutter ants... there's about 10 million leaf cutter ants outside of this tent. And all they are doing is cutting leaf-sized holes out of my tent. They are carrying away the nylon into the night. And because the leaf cutter ants are working to dismantle every single thing that I own, they're opening up holes big enough for me to put my fist through, which means everything else in the Amazon is coming into my tent... I just woke up because there's a leaf cutter ant using its pinser jaws to bite my ear to try and carry off a piece.
[263:31] Steven Bartlett: If you only had three years left to live, what would you regret not doing? And are you working on that now? If no, why not?
Original transcript
[0:00] This Burmese python wants to know what
[0:02] is inside the diary of a CEO.
[0:05] >> Oh my god.
[0:05] >> Beautiful. Now, what are you feeling
[0:07] right now?
[0:07] >> Wondering why I do this for a living.
[0:09] >> Have you ever done a podcast with a
[0:11] 10-ft snake across the table before?
[0:13] >> No, this is my first.
[0:15] >> Awesome. Bring out the next friend.
[0:17] Don't bring it over here.
[0:18] >> Just don't move.
[0:20] >> Paul, what have you spent the last 20
[0:22] years of your life doing? living out of
[0:24] a backpack in the Amazon rainforest
[0:26] barefoot with a machete to help the
[0:28] indigenous people [music] save the
[0:29] Amazon whatever it takes which means
[0:31] crocodile bites snake very rare diseases
[0:34] hunted by the narot traffickers with a
[0:36] picture of that guy that scar [music] is
[0:37] because he was shot in the head by a 7ft
[0:39] arrow while he was trying to make
[0:40] peaceful contact with the unconted
[0:42] tribes [music] and this is actually a
[0:43] very important story I think I have a
[0:46] video of this
[0:46] >> yeah this is world first footage so
[0:49] tribe isolated so deep in the jungle
[0:50] that they've never heard of a spoon or
[0:52] the wheel or Jesus was coming out to
[0:54] make contact. So, we do a 2-day boat
[0:56] journey in one night through the worst
[0:58] thunderstorm I've ever seen. They were
[1:00] scared. We were [music] scared because
[1:01] these tribes kill people all the time.
[1:03] And they had one question. How do we
[1:05] tell the bad guys from the good guys?
[1:06] You see, these people are being hunted
[1:08] by traffickers and gold miners and
[1:10] loggers and boxed in by deforestation.
[1:13] But if our oceans of rainforests are
[1:14] vanishing, life on Earth is not
[1:16] possible. Now, it's not too late, but
[1:18] we're the last generation that can save
[1:19] it. Paul, young kids are growing up
[1:21] attached to screens and loneliness is at
[1:23] an all-time high. Is there anything that
[1:24] you learned in those 15 years that a
[1:26] westerner like me would find useful?
[1:28] >> 100%. So, let's start with purpose.
[1:34] >> Listen, my my team gave me a script that
[1:36] they asked me to read, but I'm just
[1:37] going to ask you um in the nicest way I
[1:39] possibly can. Thank you first and
[1:41] foremost for choosing to subscribe to
[1:42] this channel. It is um it's been one of
[1:44] the most incredible crazy years of my
[1:46] life. I never could have imagined. had
[1:48] so many dreams in my life, but this was
[1:49] not one of them. And the very fact that
[1:51] these conversations have resonated with
[1:52] you and you've given me so much feedback
[1:54] is something I will always be
[1:55] appreciative of. And I almost carry away
[1:57] a sort of burden of uh responsibility to
[1:59] pay you back. And the favor I would like
[2:01] to ask from you today is to subscribe to
[2:03] the channel if you um would be so
[2:05] obliged. It's completely free to do
[2:06] that. Roughly about 47% of you that
[2:09] listen to this channel frequently
[2:10] currently don't subscribe to this
[2:12] channel. So if you're one of those
[2:13] people, please come and join us. Hit the
[2:14] subscribe button. It's the single free
[2:16] thing you can do to make this channel
[2:17] better. And every subscriber sort of
[2:19] pays into this show and allows us to do
[2:21] things bigger and better and to push
[2:22] ourselves even more. And I will not let
[2:24] you down if you hit the subscribe
[2:25] button. I promise you. And if I do,
[2:27] please do unsubscribe, but I promise I
[2:28] won't. Thank you. [music]
[2:34] Paul, you live an extraordinary life. A
[2:37] very atypical extraordinary life. What
[2:40] have you spent the last 20 years of your
[2:42] life doing? trying to find a way to
[2:45] explore the wildest parts of the Amazon
[2:48] and figure out a way to save them.
[2:51] >> The Amazon, for a lot of people that
[2:53] don't know anything about this part of
[2:54] the world, they'll they'll think of it
[2:55] as a bunch of trees where lots of wild
[2:58] animals live. What is the sort of
[3:00] central misunderstanding of the true
[3:02] nature of the Amazon?
[3:03] >> I think it's a it's a problem of scale.
[3:05] People don't understand the importance
[3:06] of the Amazon. This is one of the most
[3:08] crucial things on our planet. It's one
[3:09] of the most physically defining features
[3:11] of our planet. If you look at Earth from
[3:13] space, you see this giant green belt
[3:16] over most of South America. That's the
[3:18] Amazon rainforest. And that's where
[3:20] 1ifth of our fresh water is contained
[3:22] and another fifth of our oxygen is
[3:24] produced. This system is irreplaceably
[3:27] valuable to all life on Earth.
[3:30] >> And you live in the Amazon.
[3:32] >> For the last 20 years, I've lived mostly
[3:35] in the Amazon. I've slept more nights
[3:37] outdoors than I have in in my adult life
[3:40] because I befriended the indigenous
[3:42] people of the upper Amazon rainforest.
[3:45] And that's that's what the book is
[3:46] about. It's I went down there at 18
[3:48] years old because I needed adventure.
[3:50] And then the quest for adventure led for
[3:52] this call to meaning. And then that led
[3:54] to the discovery that we were the only
[3:57] ones who could do anything to stop the
[3:59] bulldozers and the chainsaws from
[4:00] destroying the thing that we loved.
[4:03] A lot of people have clicked on this
[4:04] conversation for whatever reason. What
[4:07] are we going to talk about today that
[4:09] you think might be interesting to them
[4:11] in their lives and what is the wide
[4:13] variety of things from the conversations
[4:14] you have every single day that compels
[4:17] people cuz I want to give them a bit of
[4:19] a tlddr before we get into the detail.
[4:21] >> I think that what people are going to
[4:23] find and this is what I tried to write
[4:25] about was that I didn't know where I was
[4:28] going at first. I just knew what I
[4:30] loved. And so over the last 20 years,
[4:32] it's been following a dream in a
[4:34] direction. [snorts] And that dream was
[4:36] finding a way to relieve the the
[4:39] incredible stress that I felt over the
[4:41] the state of the environment. We live in
[4:43] these times where people feel like the
[4:45] world is ending. There's nothing we can
[4:46] do. Our oceans are collapsing. The
[4:48] rainforests are vanishing. Elephants are
[4:49] being hunted to extinction. And I wanted
[4:51] to know, are there solutions to these
[4:53] problems? Is there a way to change the
[4:54] narrative of conservation and come up
[4:56] with an alternative reality where
[4:58] everything's okay? And do you think your
[5:00] message is more timely now than ever
[5:02] with everything that's going on with
[5:03] technology and AI and this sort of great
[5:05] transition we're in?
[5:07] >> I think that this message is timely now
[5:09] because whether we like it or not, we're
[5:10] alive at the most important moment in
[5:12] history. And the reason that that's true
[5:14] is because never before as a global
[5:16] society have we been all faced with the
[5:20] same problem. If our ecosystems
[5:22] collapse, life on Earth is not possible.
[5:24] And we are the last generation in
[5:26] history that's going to have a chance to
[5:27] restore those ecosystems. and those
[5:29] sacred cycles before it's too late.
[5:32] >> And as it relates to mental health,
[5:35] young kids are growing up attached to
[5:37] physical to screens and to technology
[5:39] and all these things. You've lived
[5:41] almost the opposite life. It appears for
[5:43] the last 20 years. I'm wondering if
[5:46] there's anything, you know, cuz you said
[5:48] today on your way here that you like
[5:50] didn't know how to get out of the Uber
[5:52] and
[5:52] >> Yeah. No, it was a it was a mess getting
[5:54] here. I almost got run over by a guy who
[5:56] recognized me and said and said, "Get
[5:57] out of the road, Anaconda guy." And then
[5:59] I'd never opened uh I guess I'd never
[6:01] opened a door with a button before, but
[6:02] I couldn't figure out how to get out of
[6:03] out of the Uber. And then uh I had I had
[6:06] a whole adventure in the bathroom that
[6:07] should have been filmed. Um but no, I
[6:10] mean I have lived uh we used to we call
[6:12] it the barefoot machete days. You know,
[6:14] a lot of my early learning in the Amazon
[6:17] took place under the toutelage of
[6:19] indigenous experts. And these are people
[6:21] that like JJ, who I meet when I first go
[6:23] down to the Amazon, he didn't have shoes
[6:25] until he was 13 years old. So he lived a
[6:29] life where if you want to fish, you have
[6:30] to go to the river.
[6:31] >> And if you want to eat, you have to go
[6:33] out into the forest, not to the
[6:34] supermarket. And so when you see kids
[6:36] today that are only using their thumbs,
[6:40] it's not too surprising when people are
[6:42] disconnected and disoriented and sort of
[6:44] don't know what's real and what's not
[6:46] real anymore. Because you go to the
[6:48] mountains and the rain and the sky and
[6:50] the rocks, we'll teach you what's real
[6:51] real quick and you all have to agree on
[6:53] it or else you'll die. And the jungle is
[6:55] the same thing. It's sort of when you
[6:57] find yourself with these chemical
[6:58] physical boundaries,
[7:00] life makes a lot more sense.
[7:03] >> Have you been able to make sense of the
[7:06] life that someone like me lives
[7:09] more because you've spent time in the
[7:12] Amazon?
[7:13] >> Like you look at us differently. I know
[7:14] that sounds like a crazy thing to say,
[7:16] >> but in the same way that people might
[7:18] look at the way you choose to live your
[7:19] life and say, "This is very, very
[7:21] strange." Do you look at people that,
[7:23] you know, like me that work seven days a
[7:24] week behind a screen and think that's a
[7:26] very strange life?
[7:27] >> I just know that I couldn't do it. I I I
[7:31] depend almost almost
[7:35] I'm so reliant on nature. I have to be
[7:37] around trees. I fall asleep to frogs. I
[7:40] I mean, even even being in a city, I go
[7:42] seek out a place where there's a lot of
[7:44] trees. I am like a forest creature. If
[7:46] you take me out of my environment, I
[7:48] start to stress and die. And there's a
[7:51] part of me that yes, that starts to die
[7:53] if you keep me locked in concrete or if
[7:55] you were to if you were to relegate me
[7:57] to a a I was just in a hotel last week
[8:01] on the book tour and I realized nothing
[8:05] in the room with me was natural. The
[8:08] carpet, the table, the windows, the
[8:11] television, everything that was in this
[8:12] room with me was composite materials.
[8:17] And I couldn't even open the window to
[8:18] get to the outside air. And I it did
[8:20] occur to me. I said, I wonder if other
[8:22] people feel this type of of of societal
[8:25] claustrophobia where to me it's I have
[8:27] to have my feet in a river at some
[8:29] point. I have to I have to every night
[8:32] before I fall asleep, I have to look up.
[8:34] It's a ritual. I have to look up and and
[8:36] look at the stars. How else can you
[8:38] pray?
[8:40] And so for me, being in a city has
[8:42] become a very different reality to what
[8:44] I'm used I mean, just taking a shower. I
[8:46] mean, trust me, it's not as much fun
[8:48] standing in a cold tile box and spraying
[8:50] water on yourself as it is running
[8:52] through the jungle, diving into the
[8:54] river and swimming and the whole river
[8:56] rushing around you. It's a whole
[8:58] different experience. And so, when I
[8:59] come back, I get a little bit, you know,
[9:01] I miss my I miss the frogs and the birds
[9:03] and and sort of my neighbors of of of
[9:06] the jungle.
[9:07] >> Do you think there's like a collective
[9:08] delusion in terms of the way we live our
[9:10] lives? Do do you think we're we've gone
[9:11] a bit crazy? Kind of like the frog in
[9:13] the frying pan. It's happened so
[9:14] gradually, the sort of technological
[9:17] >> creep of our lives that,
[9:20] >> you know, and we're looking at young
[9:21] kids that are more anxious and depressed
[9:22] than ever before. Loneliness is at an
[9:24] all-time high.
[9:25] >> More people are taking anti-depressant
[9:27] medications than ever before.
[9:30] >> I think that yes is the simple answer to
[9:33] your question. That that that sort of
[9:35] we're a species perpet we're a fish
[9:37] perpetually out of water. that as humans
[9:39] because we've taken ourselves away from
[9:41] forests and away from deserts and away
[9:43] from mountains and the ocean. I mean, we
[9:44] used to be fishermen and we used to be
[9:46] farmers and and now the life that we
[9:48] live is so incredibly different than
[9:49] that. If you ask kids where does their
[9:52] meat come from, there are kids that will
[9:54] say the grocery store. You know, they
[9:56] don't know that chickens exist before
[9:58] it's in the package. And and so, you
[10:01] know, for for there was that generation,
[10:03] which I think that you and I are both a
[10:04] part of, where it was like we were the
[10:06] bicycle generation. We might be the last
[10:07] one where it was like you went out in
[10:09] the morning and you were on your bicycle
[10:11] or you were running around with your
[10:12] friends and you would come home for
[10:13] dinner and I was incredibly lucky to
[10:15] have, you know, on the weekends I would
[10:17] go to the woods. I would take a steak
[10:20] and I would take one match and I'd take
[10:22] my golden retriever and we would go get
[10:24] lost up the side of a mountain and uh
[10:27] we' just go camping. My rule was no
[10:29] shelter, one match, one stake dog. So
[10:32] you couldn't mess up the match.
[10:33] >> At what age?
[10:34] >> Uh I would say 12 or 14. I mean, I was
[10:36] doing this. I had a little, you know, a
[10:38] little hunting knife on my side.
[10:39] >> Not typical for a 12-year-old,
[10:41] >> but I needed it.
[10:42] >> Why?
[10:42] >> I don't know. I needed adventure. I
[10:45] think because being being stuck in a
[10:47] desk and being told you can't get up and
[10:49] you can't even go to the bathroom, and
[10:51] you you look down, do what we say, just
[10:53] being controlled was so counterintuitive
[10:55] to my essence. And so, I grew up with
[10:57] this need for adventure. And then
[11:00] somewhere along the way, the fact that I
[11:01] couldn't drink the streams that I was
[11:03] exploring or the fact that even when I
[11:05] was deep, deep, deep in the forest, I
[11:07] knew that if I really hiked for another
[11:08] 4 hours, I'll come out the other side. I
[11:10] wanted to experience wilderness. I
[11:13] wanted to experience wilderness where it
[11:14] never ended. I wanted to see the really
[11:16] wild places on the planet. And for some
[11:18] reason, that was inside me since I was
[11:19] very young.
[11:21] >> So, how did you go from there? from
[11:23] being that 13 year old to setting off at
[11:26] what 17 years old with your Amazon
[11:28] research in Peru.
[11:30] >> You did go to university. You
[11:32] >> you were actually really really smart. I
[11:34] I hear
[11:35] >> I was smart enough that they had me both
[11:38] suspended and in in detention and in
[11:40] American Mensa. I was I was I was really
[11:44] all over the place. And and the thing is
[11:45] they make you feel stupid when you can't
[11:47] do the assignments. So I'd say, 'Why are
[11:49] you failing math and why can't you read
[11:51] this book and you didn't do your
[11:52] homework? But I was like, I know I'm
[11:54] smart and in the forest I was good at
[11:55] tracking and I could survive and I could
[11:57] make it through a weekend and I could
[11:58] build shelter and so I always just
[11:59] gravitated towards that. And so I spoke
[12:02] to my parents. I dropped out of high
[12:03] school. You can take your GED and get
[12:06] out two years early with a with a with a
[12:09] with a one-day test. And I did that. The
[12:11] rule was I did have to go to university.
[12:13] So, I had to start taking semesters, but
[12:15] in between semesters, I was free to go
[12:17] to the Amazon rainforest. And so, I
[12:19] booked the most remote position that I
[12:22] could at a place where it took 2 days by
[12:24] boat from the nearest city to get to
[12:26] this tiny little research station. And
[12:28] it was run by this Peruvian guy and his
[12:29] partner. And his name was JJ.
[12:32] And that's the guy that opened the
[12:34] Amazon for me.
[12:35] >> He opened the Amazon for you?
[12:37] >> Well, JJ grew up in the Amazon as an
[12:40] indigenous person. And so what he was
[12:42] learning, he the the first chapter in
[12:43] this book is called the rarest of
[12:45] species because he's the only unicorn in
[12:48] the Amazon rainforest.
[12:50] He's an indigenous person. So he's been
[12:52] learning from his grandfathers,
[12:54] grandfathers, grandfathers, grandfathers
[12:55] all the way back.
[12:56] >> And indigenous means
[12:58] >> indigenous means his family is from the
[13:00] jungle. Their heritage, their lineage
[13:02] going back, they are jungle people.
[13:04] They're from the Seaha tribe. And so his
[13:08] father, Don Santiago, there they knew
[13:11] the medicinal plants. They knew how to
[13:13] fish for piranha. Then he can cut a
[13:15] piece of callus off of his foot and put
[13:17] it on a hook using himself as bait to
[13:19] catch a bait fish. He can mash up a
[13:22] Barbasco route and put it in a stream
[13:23] and then all the fish float to the
[13:25] surface. He can track a deer. He could
[13:27] track a jaguar. He could track a person.
[13:29] So these people know everything about
[13:30] the forest and they're the people that I
[13:32] came in with. And because I knew about
[13:35] snakes, he knew every He knew everything
[13:36] about the forest, the medicines, the
[13:38] habits of the animals, the systems. The
[13:41] only thing I knew was I said, "I know
[13:42] how to handle snakes." And he said, "I'm
[13:44] scared of snakes." And I said, "I could
[13:46] teach you snakes." I said, "You teach me
[13:47] everything else." And he goes, "You like
[13:48] snakes?" He goes, "Come with us." He
[13:50] said, "We go on a family hunting trip
[13:52] once a year where we go on this
[13:54] expedition 10 days into the jungle where
[13:56] no one's allowed to go. Only people with
[13:58] indigenous status." He said, "You're our
[14:00] guest. You come with us." And so there I
[14:02] was going up the river into parts of the
[14:04] world that have yet to be named into the
[14:07] wildest places in the Amazon rainforest
[14:10] and learning from these guys through
[14:11] experience how to catch fish out of the
[14:14] river, how to navigate through difficult
[14:16] parts of the of the stream when the
[14:18] storms are coming, how to survive them.
[14:20] And then we found anacondas. And so it
[14:22] was like this I had this very very in
[14:24] unorthodox training and introduction
[14:26] into the jungle. How big is the Amazon
[14:30] rainforest? Trying to get my head around
[14:32] the scale of it.
[14:34] >> I'm bad with numbers. What I do know is
[14:36] that it's larger than the lower 48
[14:38] states.
[14:39] >> Wow.
[14:40] >> It's it's absolutely tremendous. It's
[14:41] the largest contiguous rainforest on
[14:43] Earth.
[14:44] >> And are there parts of it that people
[14:45] have never been to?
[14:46] >> 100%. There are still parts of the
[14:48] Amazon rainforest that are unexplored.
[14:50] There's parts of the Amazon rainforest
[14:51] that no one's ever been to. And if you
[14:53] really want to blow your own mind, the
[14:55] canopy of the Amazon rainforest is about
[14:58] 150 160 ft up above our heads, which is
[15:00] far.
[15:02] >> And half of the life in a rainforest
[15:05] exists in the canopy. So you're talking
[15:06] about the most mega biodiverse biome
[15:10] that has ever existed. There's never
[15:11] been more terrestrial wildlife anywhere
[15:14] on Earth than in the Amazon rainforest.
[15:16] And right now in the entire fossil
[15:18] record, we we're at the apex, the climax
[15:20] community of the Amazon rainforest. It's
[15:22] that brilliant. Where the Andes,
[15:24] rainforest, cloud forests meet the
[15:26] lowland tropical Amazon. There it is.
[15:29] That's the most life we know of in the
[15:31] entire universe.
[15:33] >> And in terms of human life,
[15:35] >> Mhm.
[15:36] >> I hear there's lots of human life there
[15:39] that we've never contacted.
[15:41] >> There are various tribes living through
[15:44] the Western Amazon. And you have the
[15:46] Seaha and the Machenga and you have the
[15:48] Yin and and then further out beyond all
[15:50] of these there were always rumors that
[15:53] there were uncontacted tribes
[15:57] and and for the first many years that I
[16:00] was there it was always someone's uncle,
[16:03] someone's brother, someone's cousin
[16:04] would would come back with these crazy
[16:06] stories that someone had seen the tribes
[16:08] and that they were that they were tall
[16:10] and naked and they still hunted with
[16:12] bows and arrows and they would and then
[16:14] every now and And somebody would come
[16:15] back with a 7ft arrow, a spear tipped
[16:19] with bamboo, huge bamboo tip this big,
[16:22] razor sharp, like a machete. And that
[16:25] was the only proof we had that they
[16:27] existed
[16:29] until the day we met them.
[16:35] >> When did you meet them for the first
[16:36] time?
[16:39] So, in order to explain how we met them,
[16:41] we should probably explain why what
[16:43] where we got to in how the how the
[16:47] 18-year-old researcher became the
[16:49] director of of of a major organization.
[16:51] But,
[16:51] >> please
[16:53] >> Okay. Well, some somewhere along the way
[16:55] as we as we
[16:57] as we did these expeditions through the
[16:59] Amazon and I became closer and closer
[17:01] with the indigenous people, you know, JJ
[17:04] as a teacher kept telling me and that's
[17:06] and that's what the the first chapter of
[17:07] the book is about is, you know, him just
[17:09] teaching me the incredible
[17:10] interconnectedness. There's this there's
[17:12] this moment that I write about where
[17:13] he's going, "Look at this beach and tell
[17:16] me the news." And I said, "What?" And he
[17:18] said, "Yeah." He said, "Every day the
[17:19] ground is like last night's newspaper.
[17:21] It tells you what happened." So, I look
[17:23] at the beach and there's jaguar tracks
[17:25] and there's like a mess of jaguar tracks
[17:27] and some Jaguar scat and I made no sense
[17:29] of it. And he was like, "This is where
[17:31] she came yesterday to drink.
[17:34] That's where she pooped. This is where
[17:36] she came today to drink. You can see the
[17:37] newer tracks." And then he's like, "And
[17:39] what you didn't notice, you didn't see
[17:41] the vultures above us." And I look up
[17:43] and there's vultures above us. And he
[17:44] goes, "Notice they're not looking at us.
[17:47] They're looking at the jaguar." And so
[17:48] they're looking that way. Jaguar had a
[17:50] fresh deer kill. and had continually
[17:53] been eating and then coming to the river
[17:54] to drink. And so he can decipher all of
[17:56] these incredible things. And so as he's
[17:58] taking me through these worlds of
[18:00] butterflies and interconnected species
[18:02] where there's a mist river flowing over
[18:04] the rainforest, this this avatar on
[18:06] Earth
[18:08] and then we then they burned it down.
[18:10] >> Who burned it down?
[18:11] >> The loggers.
[18:14] And so the first time I saw ancient
[18:16] forest,
[18:17] a place that I love with trees
[18:19] significantly bigger than this room,
[18:22] vanished. There's this cacophony of
[18:25] life, this orchestra, this symphonic
[18:27] roar of life that you get in the mo,
[18:29] especially in the morning in the Amazon.
[18:32] And then at night, there's the night
[18:33] chorus. And when you hear that silenced,
[18:37] it's one of the most horrific things
[18:38] that you can experience because places
[18:40] that we loved, trees that had been
[18:42] standing for a thousand years, species
[18:44] that had never been described by science
[18:46] were all incinerated.
[18:49] And I said to JJ, I said, "How do we
[18:52] this this this can't be allowed? This
[18:54] can't this can't possibly be something
[18:56] that's permitted." And I said, "Isn't
[18:57] there somebody that we can call?" We
[18:59] were standing on the side of the river,
[19:00] and he he leaned forward. And he looked
[19:02] this way and he looked that way and he
[19:03] goes, "Do you see anybody?" He goes,
[19:05] "Cuz I don't see anybody." He goes, "You
[19:07] have to do something." I said, "I have
[19:09] to do something." I said, "I'm 19, 20
[19:11] years old." I said, "What am I going to
[19:12] do?" I said, "I don't have a PhD. I
[19:13] don't have a trust fund. I don't have a
[19:15] media presence. I don't have anything."
[19:17] I had a machete and I had bare feet. We
[19:19] both had machetes and bare feet. And so
[19:21] that was the start of the journey where
[19:22] we said, "The thing we love is being
[19:24] destroyed." We could see the smoke on
[19:25] the horizon. The trees that we had
[19:28] explored and become to love were laying
[19:30] smoldering on the ground in front of us.
[19:32] And we said, "Okay, now we have to
[19:33] figure out a way to change the
[19:34] narrative. The wildest place on earth is
[19:36] about to be destroyed, bulldozed, and
[19:38] burned. How do we save it?" And so
[19:41] that's where when you ask the question
[19:43] of how does life in the jungle sort of
[19:45] translate to what your listeners are
[19:47] going to find interesting, it's taking
[19:49] on a task that's so gigantic that at the
[19:51] start of it, we couldn't even come up
[19:53] with a we couldn't even conceptualize
[19:55] how it could be possible even with the
[19:57] right tools
[19:58] >> to save the Amazon
[19:59] >> to save the Amazon rainforest, let alone
[20:02] for two guys with zero qualifications,
[20:04] bare feet and machetes. And so we
[20:07] started behind zero and today we're at
[20:10] the point where we've turned loggers and
[20:13] gold miners into conservation rangers.
[20:14] We're protecting 130,000 acres of the
[20:17] river. We're on the cusp of creating a
[20:19] national park. Me and JJ are the
[20:21] directors of Jungle Keepers and we're
[20:24] about to make history because we're
[20:25] going to save the entire watershed and
[20:27] all the trees and animals and heartbeats
[20:29] that are left. And that's the story that
[20:31] I'm trying to tell. That's the whole
[20:32] reason for my existence. That's why I
[20:34] that's what I wake up and do every day.
[20:37] >> And you've really taken on that
[20:38] responsibility in a very personal way. I
[20:40] can tell.
[20:41] >> Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's a point
[20:43] where, you know, I remember cuz you grow
[20:47] up I mean I I was born in Brooklyn and
[20:49] then we you know I grew up in Jersey for
[20:50] a while and then we moved to the Hudson
[20:52] Valley. But when you start you start
[20:54] going to the Amazon for months and
[20:56] months and months out of the year and
[20:58] you come back with scars and stories
[21:00] where a jaguar is breathing on your neck
[21:02] and you you go out on a solo and you
[21:04] come back and then suddenly standing and
[21:06] making conversation at a barbecue feels
[21:09] different.
[21:11] It's it's almost like I imagine I have a
[21:14] lot of veteran friends and sort of you
[21:16] you almost get addicted to the action
[21:18] and then you also get addicted to the
[21:20] the the the team, you know. Uh Sebastian
[21:22] Younger writes about this about the the
[21:25] addict the the the the need for
[21:27] community the tribe and sort of the the
[21:30] mission and I think that that's one
[21:31] thing that people are missing today
[21:32] where they they they don't know you know
[21:34] we've been disassociated from religion
[21:36] and community and and and immediate sort
[21:39] of connection with other humans. And so
[21:41] then well then what else is there? How
[21:43] do how do you where where to what do you
[21:45] more your existence? What do you what's
[21:48] your what's your purpose? What do you
[21:50] wake up and do every day? And so I
[21:52] think, you know, in the old days it was
[21:53] like, you know, we have to we have to
[21:54] defend ourselves from the outside world,
[21:56] from waring communities, you know, or
[21:58] even just providing for your family. We
[22:00] have to bring water every day. We have
[22:02] to chop wood every day. We have to
[22:04] figure out how to survive. And like
[22:05] today, I mean, when I'm here, I wake up
[22:07] and I go, "Well, there's there's water
[22:10] in the fridge, so I don't have to do
[22:11] that." And I'm like, "The air
[22:13] conditioner is on and the I'm like, I
[22:16] guess I'll check my phone, [laughter]
[22:18] you know." And so I, you know, I think
[22:20] we have, like you said, become somehow
[22:23] we've gone really far away from what we
[22:26] are built for.
[22:28] And one of the beautiful things that
[22:29] happens when you go into the wild, and
[22:31] this can be any wild, is that it starts
[22:32] to change you. And so you go into the
[22:34] wild and you start picking up logs and
[22:36] throwing them. You start splitting
[22:37] firewood, and the first day you're going
[22:39] to have calluses on your hands, but then
[22:41] after a few weeks, you're going to have
[22:42] tough hands. You start walking barefoot,
[22:44] same thing. The sun starts to make your
[22:46] skin thicker and tanner and more
[22:48] resilient and then the rain will hammer
[22:50] that home and you start to get your eyes
[22:52] start to get sharper and you start to
[22:53] pay more attention to what you're
[22:54] hearing. And so you start going through
[22:56] this whole transformation where you
[22:58] start to be almost become a different
[22:59] animal. You become the jungle version of
[23:01] yourself. You become the mountain
[23:02] version of yourself. Your legs start to
[23:04] get strong again. And so so the wild
[23:07] puts you through this gauntlet of
[23:09] transformation and you become connected
[23:12] to your environment. And then that
[23:14] feeling of disassociation tends to
[23:17] alleviate a little bit.
[23:19] >> I heard about this particular part of
[23:21] the brain that changes as well. You
[23:23] talked about transformation.
[23:24] >> Yeah.
[23:25] >> Um they discovered something not so many
[23:28] years ago called the anterior midsulate
[23:30] cortex.
[23:31] >> Mhm.
[23:32] >> Andrew Hubman and I heard him say that
[23:33] he thinks it was one of the most
[23:35] important discoveries in neuroscience of
[23:37] the last
[23:38] >> century. The anterior mid-s singular
[23:40] cortex is a part of the brain sitting
[23:42] between your emotional brain and your
[23:44] executive control center that
[23:46] essentially grows when you do hard
[23:47] things.
[23:48] >> Not when you do things that um
[23:51] specifically when you do things that you
[23:52] don't want to do but you do them anyway.
[23:55] So not running a marathon because you
[23:56] enjoy it. Things you don't want to do
[23:58] and you do it anyway. And it went
[23:59] through some of the studies I saw said
[24:01] that younger people that have been
[24:02] brought into this sort of doom scrolling
[24:04] generation have smaller ones. If you are
[24:07] um obese, it's smaller. Um athletes have
[24:10] bigger ones and people who live longer
[24:13] have even bigger ones. And it's they
[24:15] kind of call it like the muscle of the
[24:16] brain of doing hard things. And so when
[24:17] you were talking about that physical
[24:18] transformation, I weirdly thought about
[24:20] I think it was Roosevelt who
[24:22] >> after losing his mom and his wife on the
[24:24] same day.
[24:25] >> Yes.
[24:26] >> After his baby girl was born, he went
[24:27] out to the bad lands and spent two years
[24:29] doing pretty much what you said,
[24:31] >> putting himself in intentional
[24:33] discomfort.
[24:34] >> Yeah. and he came back and all of his
[24:35] friends described him as being
[24:36] transformed. He went on to become the
[24:38] youngest president in American history.
[24:40] He got shot and carried on doing the
[24:41] speech. He led the charge um uh I think
[24:44] it was the Spanish crusades or something
[24:46] like the Spanish war.
[24:47] >> And the Rough Riders.
[24:48] >> Yeah, the Rough Riders. And they all
[24:49] pointed at the moment when he went out
[24:51] to the Badlands. They said it shaped him
[24:52] into becoming a completely different
[24:54] man. That that discomfort.
[24:56] >> Yeah, 100%. And and that's that's why
[25:00] Native American cultures for the
[25:02] initiation of their young men would have
[25:04] vision quests where they would send them
[25:05] out into the wilderness. And there's
[25:06] still different there's all different
[25:08] types. Aboriginal cultures have similar
[25:10] things. And I wanted to put myself
[25:11] through that. And so I went out on
[25:13] that's what I described in my first book
[25:14] is going out on that's where JJ taught
[25:16] me enough to survive in the jungle. And
[25:18] then I started going out on 10day solos
[25:21] into place. I'd have people bring me to
[25:23] the last place that had a name. Like I'm
[25:26] talking about poachers. And then I would
[25:28] start hiking and I would go so deep in
[25:30] the Amazon rainforest that I was just
[25:32] off the map and I would try and survive
[25:34] out there. And so I had a lot of
[25:36] adventures that I should not have
[25:37] survived. But it was very important to
[25:39] me to put myself through that because I
[25:41] grew up with that discomfort. I grew up
[25:43] with the overwhelming crushing stress of
[25:46] being told that we're at the end of
[25:49] days. We are losing I mean I saw it at
[25:52] the Bronx Zoo. They said, you know,
[25:54] we're losing our rainforests. And they
[25:56] had the sound of the chainsaws and you
[25:58] see the trees going over and they said
[25:59] we're losing elephants. You'd see
[26:00] somebody shoot and the elephant goes
[26:02] over and they just said everything that
[26:04] you for me everything you love is being
[26:07] destroyed and pretty soon we're not
[26:08] going to be able to drink and
[26:09] everything's going to be polluted and
[26:10] our fisheries are being destroyed. And I
[26:12] said wait so wait a second. I said I
[26:15] have to know if it's really that bad. So
[26:16] when I got old enough don't it's not
[26:18] just that I was inspired to go out on a
[26:20] mission. And it was that I wanted to
[26:22] find out for myself cuz I'm I don't like
[26:24] finding out through a screen. I don't I
[26:26] don't want other people filtering my
[26:27] information. I wanted to find out for
[26:29] myself. Is it really that bad? And so I
[26:32] was going out on a quest to understand
[26:34] what the reality was.
[26:36] >> If I sat 18-year-old you at this table,
[26:39] he sat there
[26:41] >> and you know this version of you at what
[26:43] 37
[26:44] >> 38
[26:44] >> 38 you were sat there. So 20 years
[26:46] difference.
[26:47] >> What would the notable differences be
[26:48] between these two men?
[26:52] Um, well, he didn't know how to fish
[26:54] with his feet. [snorts] Um, that's for
[26:56] sure. His machete skills would be
[26:59] terrible. But the the noticeable
[27:00] difference would be that that
[27:02] 18-year-old, his greatest dream was to
[27:05] alleviate the environmental stress that
[27:08] he grew up with, escape the world of
[27:10] rules, find purpose in life,
[27:14] and to just have adventures. My my
[27:16] greatest dream was to see the Amazon
[27:19] rainforest. I looked at people like
[27:21] Teddy Roosevelt and Jane Goodall and I
[27:23] said, "Man, they had such incredibly
[27:26] like extraordinary lives." And I said,
[27:28] "How come my life can't be like that?
[27:30] I'm over here in detention." You know,
[27:32] I'm over here being told I didn't do my
[27:34] homework. And I'm like, "I want to chop
[27:36] wood and carry water. I want to go to
[27:38] war. I want to be scared. I want to be
[27:42] challenged." And so for me it was I I
[27:44] was that would be the difference is that
[27:46] I would be hungry for all of that.
[27:47] Whereas the person sitting across from
[27:49] you today, my body is a Jackson Pollock
[27:52] painting of scars,
[27:55] crocodile bites, tiger bites,
[27:57] infections, times that I've been almost
[27:59] crushed to death by elephants. I've been
[28:01] hunted by the narot terrorists. And at
[28:04] this point, the responsibility at that
[28:07] kid got to see all the things he wanted
[28:09] to see. We found the biggest anacondas.
[28:11] I lived through the amazing adventures
[28:13] and that's great.
[28:15] The person sitting across from you today
[28:17] is responsible for protecting millions
[28:20] of animal lives. And my job is to
[28:23] explain to people that we that everyone
[28:26] reading this message or listening to
[28:28] this message has the chance to help the
[28:30] indigenous people save the Amazon before
[28:32] we lose it forever. And so that's the
[28:35] main difference is that at that age I
[28:37] was just I just wanted some
[28:38] swashbuckling adventure. And now I found
[28:41] that adventure became meaning. I found
[28:44] it along the way. And then now I'm on a
[28:46] whole other journey. Now it's now it's
[28:48] can we bring it home? Now it's can we
[28:50] achieve something that we thought was
[28:52] impossible and change the narrative of
[28:54] how it's done.
[28:56] >> And I guess this kind of brings us back
[28:58] to this question about the unconted
[29:01] tribes. You said you and JJ were talking
[29:03] about how you might go about saving the
[29:06] Amazon.
[29:07] Was highlighting the unconted tribes in
[29:11] the Amazon part of the mission there?
[29:13] >> No. Very much no. That's a great
[29:15] question because what we started doing
[29:17] was we looked at this river basin and we
[29:18] said, "Okay, we we we love this this one
[29:21] really wild river and now we said why
[29:23] why has this river been so wild?" You
[29:26] know, so you think of the Amazon as a
[29:29] tree of rivers. You have the main Amazon
[29:31] channel and then all these millions of
[29:32] branches. And so the upper Amazon, the
[29:35] uppermost branches of the Amazon
[29:37] rainforest, those tip tip tops, people
[29:39] are only just getting to them now. You
[29:41] know, the main Amazon channel is a
[29:42] shipping port and then you have these
[29:44] huge tributaries going off of it. And
[29:46] you can get in as far as Aquitos with a
[29:48] steam ship. Like you can go all the way
[29:50] through Brazil thousands of miles and
[29:52] get all the way to Aikitos, Peru
[29:54] >> to the almost the back end of the
[29:56] Amazon.
[29:56] >> I've been there.
[29:57] >> And and it's beautiful.
[29:59] >> We are at the southern edge in the
[30:01] tributaries down there. There's one
[30:03] tributary.
[30:04] >> What's a tributary?
[30:05] >> A tributary is is an offshoot from a
[30:07] larger river.
[30:08] >> So a stream is a tributary of a larger
[30:10] stream which goes into, you know, then
[30:12] eventually you reach the Hudson River.
[30:14] >> And so this is a tiny little tributary.
[30:17] And the we what we discovered is that
[30:19] the reason people hadn't developed this
[30:22] tributary, the reason other indigenous
[30:25] communities hadn't formed was that for
[30:28] hundreds and hundreds of years, this
[30:30] particular river had been protected by
[30:33] the violent, mysterious, Mashkopiro,
[30:37] nomadic, uncontacted tribes. And that
[30:40] had kept it wild. They were the original
[30:41] jungle keepers, but by the time I got
[30:44] there, there was sort of just a myth.
[30:46] And so they were something that they
[30:47] said they lived really far up river past
[30:50] the last indigenous community. And I
[30:51] when I say indigenous community I mean
[30:53] people that we can talk to, people that
[30:55] we can interface with that I can speak a
[30:56] little Spanish to and they'll understand
[30:58] me.
[30:58] >> I think that's an important distinction.
[30:59] >> Yes.
[31:00] >> Because can you make that distinction
[31:01] between indigenous and these tribes?
[31:05] >> Yes. So within Peru, you have Lima and
[31:09] and you know Michelin star restaurants
[31:11] and all this amazing food and then you
[31:13] travel down to Cusco where you have
[31:14] Machu Picchu and you have the Andes and
[31:16] all of that incredible culture and then
[31:18] you go down to the jungle and it's a
[31:20] little bit like going to the back end of
[31:21] Alaska. That's where it's like you are
[31:23] very far away from LA or New York like
[31:25] but it's the same country and out there
[31:28] you'll reach these communities where
[31:30] they are indigenous and so in the
[31:33] reserve that we currently protect as
[31:34] jungle keepers there's two indigenous
[31:37] communities there and we work with them
[31:39] to sort of support them because as these
[31:41] loggers and narot traffickers and gold
[31:44] miners come in they see them as as a
[31:46] mark they'll go in and say oh there's
[31:48] these helpless indigenous people how can
[31:50] we exploit them
[31:51] >> how can we get their trees, their fish,
[31:54] they'll go and take those things from
[31:56] them or they'll or they'll sell them
[31:57] something that's not worth what what
[31:59] they think it is. And so we've been
[32:01] working with these indigenous
[32:02] communities to say, "Do you want the
[32:03] loggers to come in and cut down all of
[32:04] your trees?" And they go, "No." And they
[32:07] go, "But at the same time, we need a
[32:08] little bit of gasoline because what if
[32:09] we're having a baby and we have to get
[32:11] our daughter to a hospital in town?" And
[32:13] so we've been working with them to
[32:15] provide sustainable jobs as rangers
[32:18] protecting their own land. And it's such
[32:19] a simple solution whereas otherwise they
[32:22] would go and be loggers to get that
[32:23] cash. And so we were working with these
[32:26] communities and now they're rangers and
[32:28] boat drivers and guides and handymen.
[32:32] And they called us about a year ago and
[32:34] they said something incredible is
[32:36] happening and it's going to be
[32:38] dangerous, but you are the directors and
[32:40] you're part of this family and you're
[32:41] part of this story and we need you here
[32:43] for this, but the tribes are about to
[32:45] come out of the forest.
[32:48] And we were in town and where what you
[32:49] know what we do now is you know we and
[32:51] we can explain this later but we raise
[32:53] money and we bring it to the Amazon
[32:54] where we the local people have the
[32:56] opportunity to set aside huge acreage of
[32:59] of the Amazon to protect it. We're we're
[33:01] changing the narrative of destruction
[33:02] where we just protect it before they get
[33:04] to it. And so we were in town with JJ
[33:06] who's now the director of this major
[33:08] organization and we're talking to our
[33:09] lawyers and we're in the office and we
[33:11] get this call that the tribe is out.
[33:13] >> The tribe is out.
[33:14] >> The tribe is out.
[33:16] >> What does that mean? It means the
[33:17] mythical unconted tribe that when I
[33:20] arrived in Peru, the president of Peru
[33:21] had been saying these are a myth. They
[33:23] don't exist and it's just it's the
[33:25] boogeyman. It's been made up as a story
[33:27] to scare the loggers. So, their
[33:30] existence was contested. They were
[33:32] almost on the fringes of imagination.
[33:35] >> Could we not have flown a plane over
[33:37] there or something? Is that you know,
[33:39] this sounds like a dumb question, but
[33:40] presumably we have satellites and we can
[33:42] zoom in.
[33:43] The BBC did do a piece where they were
[33:45] flying a plane and they were looking at
[33:47] an unconted
[33:49] tribe from miles away and they said,
[33:51] "We're being very careful not to disturb
[33:53] them, but there is a tribe in the
[33:55] rainforest that has no contact with the
[33:57] outside world." And you could see these
[33:59] people bending and they're looking at
[34:00] the plane, but the plane's not close
[34:01] enough to really scare them or to cause
[34:03] them any distress. And so, we have done
[34:06] that. But then on our river out in the
[34:09] middle of nowhere where no one's heard
[34:10] of the BBC,
[34:13] you just hear stories from loggers
[34:14] who've come down river from three weeks
[34:16] up river. You can go for three weeks up
[34:18] the river and hit nothing. There's
[34:20] nothing human. It's like the last
[34:22] endless forest. And so when the
[34:24] community called and they said there's
[34:27] arrows on the beach, the tribe is coming
[34:29] out. It's the first time in 10 years
[34:30] that the tribe seems to be coming out of
[34:32] the jungle to make contact. And so they
[34:34] got they got the directors of Jungle
[34:36] Keepers up there. We had to we had to
[34:38] rush to be there. They begged us to be
[34:40] there so that we could see it because
[34:42] they were worried that we wouldn't
[34:43] believe them.
[34:46] And so we got there and we went all
[34:48] night. And when you go up a river at
[34:50] night, we do a two-day boat journey in
[34:52] one night.
[34:54] And so the guy right there, the picture
[34:56] with the guy who has the scar on his
[34:57] forehead, that's Ignosio. He that scar
[35:00] is because he was shot in the head by a
[35:02] 7-ft arrow while he was trying to make
[35:04] peaceful contact with the unconted
[35:05] tribes. He was trying to give them a
[35:07] gift and they got spooked and they
[35:09] scared and they shot him in the head and
[35:11] he almost died from that. When we heard
[35:14] that this was happening and he's now one
[35:16] of our best jungle keepers rangers. We
[35:18] said, "Can you do a two-day boat journey
[35:19] in one night?" And he went, "Yes, sir."
[35:22] and he put on a headlamp and he got in
[35:23] the back of the boat and we took an open
[35:25] top canoe and we drove from 6:00 p.m.
[35:27] until 9:00 a.m. the next day through the
[35:30] worst thunderstorm I've ever seen. I was
[35:32] on the front of the boat with a
[35:33] flashlight using the crocodile eyes, the
[35:35] Cayman eyes on the side of the river to
[35:37] navigate cuz they shine. The eyes shine
[35:39] comes back. The the the storm was so bad
[35:42] that I we couldn't see anything. We
[35:43] couldn't see the side of the river and
[35:45] because of the light igniting the
[35:46] raindrops, you can't you can't even see
[35:48] what's in front of you. So we were using
[35:50] the the croc eyes to to navigate where
[35:52] the edges of the river was. So I was
[35:53] spotting and telling him which way to go
[35:55] and he drove and we did that all night
[35:57] long. Got to the indigenous community
[35:59] and said, "Okay, so what's going on?"
[36:01] And they said, "Oh yeah, they left.
[36:04] Tribe's gone."
[36:07] The only thing that they had was that
[36:08] one guy the previous day had been shot
[36:10] by an arrow
[36:12] and he had been fishing and he had seen
[36:15] the tribes. So he said, "And they had
[36:17] shot an arrow at him." The first thing
[36:19] they had done was shot one of these 7-ft
[36:21] arrows at him and the way it had hit the
[36:23] boat ricocheted and then hit his thick
[36:26] leather belt and blunted the tip of the
[36:28] arrow and he had the arrow. [snorts]
[36:32] And so he says, "So there are there are
[36:34] people here." And then a native
[36:36] anthropologist from another region
[36:37] showed up and he said, "I they know me
[36:39] as the grandfather. I can speak to these
[36:41] people. I speak a little bit of their
[36:42] language." And so we stayed another
[36:45] night, two days deep in the jungle. And
[36:48] the following morning we said, "Okay,
[36:49] we're getting out of here. There's
[36:51] obviously nothing here but, you know,
[36:53] stories and footprints and arrows and we
[36:55] have important work to do back in town."
[36:57] >> And did you believe them?
[36:59] >> I've learned one thing working in the
[37:00] Amazon. Always believe the locals.
[37:03] Always. There's there's if they say it's
[37:06] there, they're not wrong. And that's
[37:09] part of the reason that I've gotten to
[37:10] go on these adventures. You know, when
[37:12] JJ Tell told me there's places you can
[37:14] go that are so wild that it's like the
[37:16] Galopagos. the animals don't know a
[37:18] human, but you have to go for days on
[37:20] foot to the topmost reaches of the
[37:22] rivers to find this. Well, that's why I
[37:24] went on these these solos. And so I
[37:26] write that's what that's as a writer
[37:27] that's what I do is try and take people
[37:29] on these adventures through the Amazon.
[37:31] And so when they said the tribe is
[37:33] coming, Ignasio, the guy who'd been shot
[37:35] in the head, he said, "Listen to me." He
[37:36] said, "You're" He said, "You're my boss,
[37:38] right?" I said, "Yeah." He goes, "I need
[37:39] to speak to you like a friend." I said,
[37:41] "Speak, speak, speak." And he said,
[37:43] "They're coming. You'd be an idiot to
[37:45] leave." And so we posted up, we waited.
[37:48] How he knew?
[37:50] >> Yeah. I'm wondering [laughter] how he
[37:51] knew.
[37:52] >> He just knew, man. They just know. It's
[37:54] like they can they can tell. And then,
[37:56] you know, I mean, these are guys who
[37:57] know when there's a jaguar close by the
[38:00] sound of the birds. They know when a
[38:02] storm's coming before the storm is
[38:04] audible. You know, they they have higher
[38:06] tuned senses than we do. And and so he
[38:09] said, "Look, the tribe is coming.
[38:10] There's the arrow. They're in the
[38:12] region." And he goes, "And when they
[38:13] come this close, they generally they
[38:14] want to talk." And I said, "But this is"
[38:17] and sure enough, you hear mushko and
[38:19] everyone starts screaming. And it was
[38:21] just this moment of absolute panic where
[38:23] women were lifting babies and chickens
[38:25] are flying around and dogs and we're in
[38:26] this tiny little indigenous community on
[38:28] the side of a river with hundreds and
[38:30] hundreds of miles of jungle around. And
[38:32] we run to the edge of this, you know,
[38:33] the edge of the river where this cliff
[38:35] is. And across the river, we see them
[38:37] coming towards us. and they're walking
[38:39] out of the jungle and they're naked from
[38:41] head to toe. They just have some string
[38:43] tied around their waists, penises tied
[38:45] up to their bellies. They all have seven
[38:47] foot long bows and arrows and they're
[38:49] crouched over and they're looking at us
[38:50] and we're standing there and you go
[38:54] you sort of like you go I I just I I
[38:56] wanted I wanted to see this and now I'm
[38:58] not so sure I want to be here cuz there
[39:00] are warriors coming out of the jungle
[39:03] and they're from a thousand years ago.
[39:06] So I asked the anthropologist, I said,
[39:08] "They're like stone age people." And he
[39:10] goes, "They don't have stones." He said,
[39:12] "They're still in the bamboo age." He
[39:14] said, "These people are living such a
[39:16] primitive lifestyle. They're hunter
[39:18] gatherers
[39:19] and they've been isolated so deep in the
[39:21] jungle for so many centuries that it's
[39:23] like a time capsule. So there was a
[39:25] thousand years between us. We're
[39:27] standing on either side of the river
[39:28] with a thousand years between us." And
[39:30] this aperture into the history of what
[39:32] humankind used to look like. And these
[39:34] people came out holding their bows and
[39:36] arrows that they had made out of the
[39:38] jungle and they held up their hands and
[39:41] they were talking to us across a river.
[39:43] And it was sort of shirts versus skins.
[39:45] We were just two tribes separated by a
[39:48] little bit of water and they wanted to
[39:50] communicate.
[39:52] >> With what language?
[39:54] >> With their language. They I mean it's we
[39:56] don't even know really what to call
[39:58] them. For a while they were calling them
[40:00] the Mashkapiro, which means the wild
[40:02] piro people. And then um more more
[40:05] recently and partly because of our
[40:07] encounter they held up their hands and
[40:09] the first thing they said was no mole.
[40:12] We are the brothers. Brothers and so
[40:15] then our side said the same thing. The
[40:17] anthropologist said no mole brothers.
[40:19] And then this this this exchange began
[40:22] and it's like you know I as a Spanish
[40:24] speaker when I've been in Italy I can
[40:26] use my Spanish to kind of get through in
[40:28] in Italian. And I feel like it's like
[40:31] that the Yin people can speak to the
[40:33] Mashkapiro and it is an approximate
[40:35] translation.
[40:37] And the first thing that they said after
[40:39] coming out of the jungle a thousand
[40:40] years late to civilization was
[40:43] send us bananas. They said send us food.
[40:47] And they demanded that we send them
[40:49] plantains as an offering. And our side
[40:51] said you put down your weapons. We will
[40:54] talk to you but we do not want this to
[40:56] end violently. We want this to be
[40:58] peaceful. If you want to talk to us, put
[41:01] down your bow and arrows because a
[41:02] shotgun, a shotgun only goes how many
[41:04] meters? You know, it's not even going to
[41:06] go 100 meters, 50 m, maybe buckshot.
[41:11] A longbowow arrow is going to go 300 m.
[41:14] It's going to go far
[41:16] >> and they're needless to say, they're
[41:17] very good with those arrows.
[41:19] >> They are very good with those arrows.
[41:20] These things will fly. Um, and so even
[41:23] standing on the other side of the river,
[41:25] we were not safe. And so we were all
[41:27] standing behind trees. We were watching.
[41:29] Ignasio, who'd been shot before, was
[41:31] watching with the binoculars. And he's
[41:33] going, "Whenever you see them walking,"
[41:35] he said, "they let you see them, and
[41:36] then they clever girl you in the forest
[41:38] where there's one watching you from the
[41:39] shadows." And he he would grab me by the
[41:41] shoulder and go, "Look, there's one."
[41:42] And you would just see this, you know,
[41:44] red face paint in the shadows of the
[41:46] forest. And he'd have the bow trained on
[41:48] us. And so while some of them in the
[41:49] front were putting the bows down, there
[41:51] was others of them in the shadows that
[41:52] were making sure that they still had
[41:55] support. But we asked the guys in the
[41:57] front to put down their arrows. The
[41:59] anthropologists got in the river and
[42:01] gave them an offering of bananas.
[42:04] >> I think I have a video here of this.
[42:06] >> Yeah, this is world first footage.
[42:10] >> I'll let you um You know how to use an
[42:13] iPad, right? [laughter]
[42:17] Um, there we go. Yeah. So, this is this
[42:20] was this is just a random moment from
[42:22] the earlier days, but this is that
[42:23] moment where everyone starts screaming,
[42:25] "Mosh, go and we're all running." And
[42:27] this is what I was talking about where
[42:28] they are moving across the beach. And
[42:30] you can see the sort of the posture
[42:32] they're using there. I mean, he's got
[42:35] they have their bows and arrows in hand
[42:37] and then they showed up and see they're
[42:38] pointing. They were worried that our
[42:40] cameras were guns and so they were
[42:42] asking to put down the cameras. They
[42:44] were curious about various members of
[42:47] our tribe and they were all talking at
[42:49] the same time and so it was very
[42:51] difficult to understand what they
[42:52] wanted.
[42:53] >> What's he doing with his finger there?
[42:55] He's doing
[42:55] >> this.
[42:56] >> Yeah.
[42:56] >> I don't know. This is the moment that we
[42:58] gave them the bananas. And what's
[43:00] [snorts] haunting about this is the
[43:02] desperation that you see on them where
[43:04] they're all rushing to get the bananas
[43:06] and they're not necessarily taking them
[43:08] like they're going to share later.
[43:09] They're taking them like I get my
[43:11] bananas, you get your bananas. You see
[43:13] this? They're all rushing
[43:16] to get this little boatload. And these
[43:18] are people that don't have boats. And as
[43:20] they're doing this, they're all talking
[43:22] at the same time. It was like a flock of
[43:24] parrots. It was just a cacophony of of
[43:26] sound.
[43:28] And they're all fighting over these
[43:29] plantains. And and then once they get
[43:32] them, each person held their own. They
[43:34] have rope and plantains. And this
[43:36] interaction went on for several hours.
[43:38] And we negotiated with them. And this is
[43:41] just the footage. This is the footage
[43:42] that we're allowed to release right now.
[43:44] And this is them moving back off into
[43:46] the jungle. There's a lot more that
[43:48] happened. And again, that's where that's
[43:50] why that's why we're releasing this now.
[43:52] I should say that that's why we waited a
[43:54] while to release this footage because
[43:56] footage like this is incredibly
[43:57] sensitive for a number of reasons.
[44:00] A, you don't want people to think that
[44:02] we went out and contacted these people
[44:04] that want to be left alone. You also
[44:07] don't want to encourage other people to
[44:09] indulge their misconceptions. People go,
[44:11] "Oh, these are the last free people on
[44:13] earth. They live perfectly in balance
[44:15] with nature." No, people will go looking
[44:19] for them. Whereas, for hundreds of
[44:21] years, these people have asked for one
[44:22] thing and one thing only, to be left
[44:24] alone. And they've enforced that kind of
[44:26] like the Comanches with arrows. And on
[44:30] this day, they said, "Please give us
[44:31] food. Please give us rope." And they had
[44:34] one other question.
[44:37] They said, "How do we tell the bad guys
[44:39] from the good guys?" And we said, "What
[44:40] do you mean? Who are the bad guys?" And
[44:43] they said, "Some of you shooted us with
[44:44] the jiu-jitsu, with the fire sticks,
[44:48] the guns." And we were going, "Who who
[44:50] does that?" We said, "We are not the bad
[44:52] guys." And they said, "No, you also,"
[44:53] they said, "We know you cut down our
[44:55] trees." They were speaking to all of us.
[44:56] It was not there's no like, you know,
[44:58] white guy, brown guy, Peruvian,
[44:59] foreigners, none of that. It was just
[45:01] all of you outsiders,
[45:03] stop cutting down our trees. Our trees
[45:06] are our gods. It was sort of like, you
[45:08] don't do that.
[45:10] And then when they left just a few weeks
[45:12] ago, we learned that the narcot
[45:14] traffickers view them as a threat. And
[45:16] there was actually a mass grave found of
[45:18] a similar clan. And so these people are
[45:21] being boxed in by deforestation and
[45:24] hunted by narot traffickers and gold
[45:26] miners and loggers. And so I think that
[45:28] them coming out of the forest was their
[45:30] way of saying, "Hey, we're trying to get
[45:32] a read on what's going on in the outside
[45:34] world. Who is it? Who are the good guys?
[45:36] Who are the bad guys? They don't know
[45:38] that Jungle Keepers is protecting the
[45:40] land that they live on.
[45:42] >> They've never [clears throat] heard of a
[45:43] spoon or the wheel or Jesus or World War
[45:46] II or the country of Peru. And so so
[45:51] they're coming out with so many
[45:52] questions. And the only way to care for
[45:55] these people and to give them the the
[45:56] the rights that they deserve is to
[45:58] protect the forest they live in.
[46:01] >> Do you know why some of them seem to be
[46:04] touching their nose?
[46:06] >> It's funny. I didn't notice that. I
[46:08] think this is this is this is going to
[46:09] be your discovery to anthropology. I did
[46:11] not notice that, but it does. You see
[46:13] this a lot of them are doing this.
[46:16] >> Yeah.
[46:16] >> And the the outfit um
[46:19] >> the outfit
[46:20] >> What is this outfit? This it looks like
[46:21] there's kind of rope tied around their
[46:23] midrift with their penises out.
[46:25] >> Mhm. Yeah. The the the head of the penis
[46:27] is covered by rope.
[46:28] >> Oh, they've got the penis up into the
[46:30] rope.
[46:30] >> No, the head of the penis is up and
[46:32] protected. And and that makes sense
[46:34] given the jungle where there's
[46:36] mosquitoes and bot flies and sand flies.
[46:38] That that's a smart move. And then rope
[46:41] seems to be I mean what is it goes like
[46:43] fire rope ladders like I think it's like
[46:45] man's second invention.
[46:46] >> They are obsessed with rope. That's how
[46:48] they make their bow strings. That's how
[46:50] they make their arrows. That's how they
[46:52] lash things together to make the the the
[46:54] limited structures that they make. And
[46:56] some of what we know about them is, you
[46:58] know, we find their camps after they
[47:00] leave. So we know what they eat. They
[47:01] eat primarily turtles and monkeys. They
[47:03] don't fish. They don't have fish hooks.
[47:06] >> They They don't eat humans, do they?
[47:08] >> They do not eat humans. They are not
[47:09] cannibal tribes.
[47:11] >> That's a rumor people have talked about
[47:12] before. People have said,
[47:13] >> "Yeah, there's even a couple versions of
[47:15] my voice in AI saying that on the
[47:17] internet, but it is not true."
[47:19] >> And their haircuts, they all seem to be
[47:22] have the sort of mullet style haircut
[47:25] from
[47:25] >> It seems like they all grab the front
[47:27] and just find a way to cut it. There
[47:29] might be like one guy with a machete who
[47:30] just does the haircuts.
[47:32] >> And for a lot of them, this is the first
[47:33] time they've seen a human.
[47:35] >> So, actually, this was first contact.
[47:37] The anthropologist who came to the
[47:40] scene, who managed this interaction,
[47:44] he said he had met an unconted tribe
[47:46] before in the region. He said none of
[47:49] these were men that he'd met. And the
[47:51] other thing, notice they're all men.
[47:53] >> Yeah.
[47:54] >> The women were hidden hidden in the
[47:55] forest. And while the men were making a
[47:57] distraction in front of us, the women
[47:59] were raiding the farm behind us.
[48:01] >> Raiding
[48:02] >> raiding the farm.
[48:03] >> Your farm.
[48:04] >> The indigenous people's farm. Our
[48:06] community's farm.
[48:06] >> So the women went to steal while they
[48:08] were distracting you.
[48:09] >> That's right.
[48:10] >> And did you catch the women on tape?
[48:12] >> No. No. No. No. No. No. Everyone was We
[48:14] were all huddled up very, very close. I
[48:16] mean, this was an incredible encounter.
[48:18] But let me explain. The prevailing
[48:21] emotion during this entire thing was
[48:23] fear on both sides. They were scared. We
[48:27] were scared. The indigenous people
[48:29] naturally have shotguns anyway. Everyone
[48:31] had their shotguns out. They all had
[48:34] some of them had put their bows on the
[48:36] beach, but they had other they had
[48:37] archers waiting. And so everyone was
[48:40] sort of, you know, it was like, "Put
[48:41] down your guns and we can talk." But
[48:43] nobody really wanted to put down their
[48:44] guns.
[48:45] >> And how do you know the women were
[48:47] stealing from your farm?
[48:49] >> [snorts]
[48:50] >> Because after this was all over and we
[48:51] went to the farm, everything had been
[48:54] pulled up. All the yuka, all the
[48:56] plantains, all the sugarcane, the entire
[48:58] farm was ruined.
[49:01] >> How'd you know it was the women?
[49:03] >> The women in the village told me it was
[49:04] the women. They was the women. Also, you
[49:07] see the smaller footprints. These men
[49:08] have wide big men. They're from walking
[49:12] barefoot their whole lives. Their feet
[49:14] get ancho. They get really thick. And
[49:17] so, and I have jungle feet like that
[49:18] now, but these guys have almost duck
[49:20] feet at this point. Like big, fat,
[49:23] calloused feet that get wider. You ever
[49:25] see a farmer's hands?
[49:26] >> Yeah.
[49:27] >> But they just they just grow.
[49:28] >> Yeah.
[49:29] >> Like that.
[49:30] >> They're all young as well.
[49:32] >> Where's Where are the older people?
[49:34] >> We'd love to know.
[49:36] We don't know. There's some tribes in
[49:38] the Amazon where the elderly people have
[49:41] more permanent settlements. There's been
[49:44] rumors of some extreme tribes where the
[49:46] elderly people if they can't keep up are
[49:47] just left to perish. Uh but we saw
[49:51] people between the ages of probably 12
[49:54] and 45. I don't think anybody looks like
[49:56] they're in their 50s.
[49:59] So we left with more questions than
[50:01] answers. They on that day they did get a
[50:03] pot that they they stole from a from you
[50:06] know the community you know they have
[50:07] their their farm and so there there was
[50:09] also a machete at the farm. Somebody
[50:11] just whacked it into a log. And so as
[50:13] they were leaving, one of the best
[50:14] things that we caught on video that we
[50:16] have we're not able to share yet is that
[50:18] one of these guys, and this was at the
[50:19] end after while everybody was going
[50:21] home, the anthropologist held up his
[50:24] hands and he said, you know, no mole
[50:25] brothers, go in peace. And these guys
[50:27] actually asked about me. I was the only
[50:28] person there with a big beard. And they
[50:30] said,
[50:32] they said that one. They said, show us
[50:33] that one. And so I came forward. I stood
[50:35] at the edge of the river, which my heart
[50:37] was pounding. And the anthropologist
[50:39] said, he said, hold up your hands. Show
[50:40] them that you don't mean any harm. I
[50:42] held hel held up my hands like this and
[50:43] they held up their hands and they sang.
[50:46] They said no more. They knew that I
[50:48] wasn't from the indigenous community.
[50:51] And that was an incredible moment of we
[50:54] couldn't communicate but it was just
[50:55] sort of that basic I acknowledge you and
[50:58] they said I acknowledge you and we just
[51:00] had this thing across the river in about
[51:02] a thousand years and just and then that
[51:03] was it. And as they left, you know, one
[51:06] of the guys had a machete and he was he
[51:08] showed it to us over his shoulder like
[51:10] this. And one of my friends was going,
[51:11] "Oh," you know, in the local language he
[51:13] was saying, "Put down the machete. Leave
[51:14] the machete." And the guy just smiled
[51:16] and looked at us like, "Yeah, come and
[51:17] get it. Come and get it." And then at
[51:20] just as they left, one of the warriors
[51:22] walked out to the beach, put an arrow on
[51:24] the string, smiled at us, and just shot
[51:27] it. Was like, "Ha!"
[51:29] >> Up into the air,
[51:30] >> just at us in general, just to spook us.
[51:33] And then they all turned left and left,
[51:35] you know. So they have a sense of humor.
[51:37] We saw them smile, you know. We
[51:38] exchanged a little bit of that with them
[51:40] as well.
[51:42] >> They look cold.
[51:44] They are cold. I mean, it's it's it's
[51:47] 95° on that day. The other thing is it
[51:49] was cool as they're coming. If you go to
[51:51] the part where they're coming across the
[51:52] beach, there was millions of
[51:54] butterflies. That beach was covered in
[51:57] just millions of butterflies. And so as
[51:59] these people are walking out, the
[52:01] butterflies are just swarming around
[52:02] them. Go back to the beginning. The that
[52:04] right there. If you just notice, we
[52:06] don't notice it at first, but as they're
[52:08] moving, look at that. The world is
[52:09] swirling with lapid lepodopter in
[52:11] colors. Just just absolute
[52:14] >> insanity how how beautiful this scene
[52:16] was. And I mean, when you see this, you
[52:18] know, if a if a Tyrannosaurus Rex walked
[52:20] out behind them, I wouldn't have been
[52:22] surprised. It was such a strange
[52:24] literally unbelievable thing to see
[52:26] because
[52:28] you know these these literally are the
[52:30] last people on Earth that are still
[52:31] living in this way where society we have
[52:33] planes, trains, automobiles, iPhones,
[52:34] all of this technology. We're talking
[52:36] about going to other planets.
[52:40] They don't have metal,
[52:44] even a knife, unless they get it from
[52:46] someone else. And so it's just it's just
[52:47] an incredible, you know, the other thing
[52:49] is they do have medicinal technologies.
[52:51] They're able to stay infection-free
[52:53] living in the tropical wet jungle.
[52:57] That's pretty incredible
[52:58] >> cuz they're they're virtually naked.
[53:00] >> I mean, essentially naked. I think
[53:03] that's that's how they carry their rope.
[53:05] I don't think that's so much of clothing
[53:06] as we need rope and that's how we carry
[53:09] it. It's very it's very very complicated
[53:12] because the loggers
[53:14] shoot at them, the narcos shoot at them.
[53:18] People shouldn't be getting into the
[53:21] places that they live. And if you think
[53:23] about in the last few centuries, how
[53:26] many indigenous cultures have been
[53:27] annihilated by the outside world coming
[53:29] in these there's no shortage of these
[53:32] stories. And in this particular case, in
[53:35] 2026, when we have the communication and
[53:38] people are able to hear this story, this
[53:40] is why we're releasing this footage
[53:42] because the only hope these people have
[53:44] is if we protect them. They can't come
[53:47] on a podcast. They can't address the
[53:49] United Nations. They can't write a pet
[53:50] petition. The only hope they have is if
[53:53] we are able to protect the forest that
[53:55] they live in. That's it. And that's why
[53:58] we released this footage now. Cuz for a
[54:00] long time we said we can't release it.
[54:03] We said, "What if what if crazy hippie
[54:05] people go down there thinking that these
[54:07] are the last free people and they want
[54:08] to go live with them? That will kill
[54:10] them. The outside pathogens that you and
[54:12] I carry on us every day, the common cold
[54:14] that we have immunity to, could wipe out
[54:16] an entire tribe." And how many tribes
[54:19] like this do we believe are in the
[54:21] Amazon rainforest?
[54:23] >> Several thousand little tribes, little
[54:25] clans that moved nomatically through the
[54:27] Amazon.
[54:28] >> Were they tall?
[54:30] >> They looked like they were at least, you
[54:33] know, 5'9, 510. They were pretty tall,
[54:36] especially because the the Peruvians and
[54:38] the indigenous communities that we work
[54:40] with tend to be on the smaller side.
[54:42] >> They they they are taller than the
[54:44] average uh some of the other tribes.
[54:47] There's another tribe that we ran into
[54:49] down there called the Nawa. And those
[54:50] people were were absolutely tiny. They
[54:53] were s like below five feet. All of
[54:55] them. Um
[54:57] these guys were tall. Yeah.
[55:00] And is there a leader here? Is someone
[55:02] in charge?
[55:03] >> Another great question. It seems to be
[55:05] that there's two they look like
[55:06] brothers. There seems to be two guys who
[55:07] do most of the talking. One in
[55:10] particular who seems to be doing the
[55:12] most gesticulating and he was
[55:14] communicating more forcefully. He he had
[55:16] a smile. That guy, he had a smile on his
[55:18] face at certain times.
[55:19] >> This one?
[55:20] >> Yeah, I think so. And And he was the one
[55:23] that would walk the furthest out into
[55:24] the river.
[55:26] Yeah. And he seems well muscled,
[55:29] healthy.
[55:30] >> He's the biggest as well in size by the
[55:32] looks of it.
[55:32] >> Yeah.
[55:33] >> Okay.
[55:36] These tribes have been known to kill
[55:38] people.
[55:39] >> These tribes kill people all the time.
[55:42] The the day after this happened, we went
[55:45] down river and one of the people who had
[55:47] been maintaining the peace during this
[55:50] negotiation across the river was my
[55:52] friend George. And George kept saying,
[55:55] "Don't worry, it's going to be okay.
[55:57] Don't worry, no mole." And he would say,
[55:59] "Let's get them more bananas." And he
[56:00] said, "You stay behind the tree. Say,
[56:02] hey, please put down your camera. They
[56:04] don't understand that it's not a gun."
[56:05] He was making sure that everyone was
[56:07] calm. Well, George was driving the day
[56:10] after this in the river as he does every
[56:13] day and he rounded one riverbend and the
[56:17] tribe was out again. They were further
[56:18] up river and usually when they leave
[56:20] they go deep into the jungle but on this
[56:22] day they had been walking up the river
[56:24] which nobody expected and so when his
[56:26] boat came around the river they hadn't
[56:28] expected it and they open fired.
[56:32] Everybody else on the boat was able to
[56:33] get down under the the benches which is
[56:35] made out of heavy thick wood. As he was
[56:38] driving, he caught an arrow over the
[56:40] scapula,
[56:42] came out by his belly button.
[56:45] So, it collapsed his right lung and cut
[56:46] through his whole body
[56:49] and he had to be helicopter evacuated
[56:52] out of the indigenous community. And
[56:54] somehow he lived.
[56:57] But he's never going to be the same. And
[56:59] there's there's a hundred stories I
[57:01] could tell you of people that have been
[57:02] killed by them.
[57:05] But now and more and more there's
[57:06] stories of that they are also being
[57:08] exterminated. So their violence is in
[57:10] response to the fact that the outside
[57:12] world has been cruel to them. And the
[57:14] only way that they can ensure that they
[57:15] survive is by keeping the outside world
[57:17] out.
[57:19] >> This is a might be a bit of a dumb
[57:20] question, but there's no consequence to
[57:23] that is there from the Peruvian
[57:24] government or anything. the proving
[57:26] government aren't trying to um you know
[57:29] if they if this uncontacted tribe kills
[57:31] somebody they're not necessarily going
[57:33] to go there and try and [laughter]
[57:36] enforce any kind of like law. That's
[57:39] actually a great question because it
[57:40] illustrates something that I think a lot
[57:42] of people fundamentally don't understand
[57:43] about this is that you know if this
[57:47] banana is the last town
[57:50] and then you imagine just our river is
[57:53] the size of a football field.
[57:56] >> Mhm.
[57:56] >> Right. [clears throat]
[57:58] How are you going to get to the other
[58:00] side of it in the jungle? It takes you
[58:02] about about an hour to cover half a mile
[58:06] through through dense jungle. If me and
[58:08] you were going with machetes right now
[58:09] through dense dense jungle, about an
[58:12] hour for every half mile. That's with no
[58:14] trail. With trail, you can go a little
[58:16] faster. With a boat, you can go a little
[58:17] faster. But the police have no
[58:19] jurisdiction outside of the city. The
[58:21] only reason the police have power is
[58:24] because everyone has agreed that there's
[58:25] a government and that they have power
[58:27] and that there's a but it's all made up.
[58:30] And when you go out in the jungle, you
[58:31] realize that there is no law in the
[58:33] wild. It's just whatever happens. It's
[58:35] who has a bigger stick.
[58:38] And so they're still playing by that
[58:39] game. They've never heard of a law.
[58:41] [snorts] And so they they've been known
[58:43] to find something interesting just the
[58:45] way and you know today if we're
[58:47] interested in a bird, we take a picture
[58:49] of it and then we study it or we can
[58:50] capture it. We can study it. You know,
[58:53] sometimes people will criticize Teddy
[58:54] Roosevelt for being a hunter, but a lot
[58:56] of the species, if he saw a new species,
[58:59] he would shoot it so that he could study
[59:01] it. That was what they did back then.
[59:03] But they do this with humans. They'll be
[59:05] like, "That's an interesting pair of
[59:07] pants."
[59:09] They seem to think about life and death
[59:11] very differently.
[59:13] >> And I was watching something um a
[59:17] podcast that you did where you said that
[59:18] they also speak the same language. some
[59:21] of these unconted tribes is the monkeys.
[59:23] >> Yes. Um so what they do is they will
[59:26] emulate capacin calls, bird calls, the
[59:29] unrelated tinn tinimu goes.
[59:33] Um the capachens I can't do their call
[59:35] but these guys have it down perfectly.
[59:37] >> Capagans being
[59:38] >> capagin monkeys
[59:43] and they'll use those sounds. And JJ's
[59:45] father Don Santiago had told us years
[59:47] and years ago they said we thought he
[59:48] was just trying to scare us. He said,
[59:50] "If you're ever in the forest and you
[59:52] hear the animals sound a little off, if
[59:56] you ever just feel like something's not
[59:58] right about the way the He" He said,
[60:00] "They've surrounded you and they're all
[60:01] watching with their bows and arrows."
[60:03] >> The tribes have.
[60:04] >> Yeah. And so they'll go
[60:06] and you'll go and he'll go and you go,
[60:10] "Wait, wait a sec." You don't hear three
[60:12] tinus in a row. That's not how it works.
[60:15] That one tineu talks to the other tineu
[60:17] and all of a sudden I got five tinus
[60:18] around me. Uh-uh. And then you know you
[60:20] got the tribe around you. And so this is
[60:22] where the local people know how this
[60:23] stuff works. And to anyone from the
[60:25] outside that goes, there's no such thing
[60:26] as unconted tribes and they don't
[60:28] communicate. Yeah, they do. And one of
[60:30] my friends was in that exact situation
[60:33] where they were communicating with
[60:35] animal calls in a circle while he was in
[60:37] a stream with his father
[60:39] and unfortunately they shot his father
[60:41] in the stomach and his father died. And
[60:44] then he ran for it and he lived to tell
[60:47] the tale. And the next day the his
[60:49] community, our friends came back and
[60:51] they found
[60:53] this guy who had just bled out through
[60:55] his stomach. And why they killed him, we
[60:58] do not know.
[61:01] >> So they pretend they're animals. Um but
[61:04] well, they they use animal sounds to
[61:06] communicate with each other.
[61:08] >> Yes.
[61:09] >> Because then the prey, which in this
[61:11] case might be a human,
[61:12] >> Yeah.
[61:13] >> won't know that it's
[61:14] >> exactly.
[61:15] >> Okay. So, if I'm going if we go, okay,
[61:17] let's split up and surround. We're we're
[61:19] we're unconted tribes now. And we go,
[61:21] okay, there's loggers over there. Let's
[61:23] split up, surround them. We'll see how
[61:24] many of them there are.
[61:25] >> And use the monkeys language to
[61:27] >> use the monkey language. They don't
[61:28] think anything of it. They'll just keep
[61:29] doing what they're doing. And then when
[61:31] we give the go-ahad, everybody, we just
[61:33] slice them with seven foot arrows and
[61:35] they're all going down.
[61:40] I was I was going to ask about
[61:41] happiness, but I don't even know the
[61:42] context in which to ask the question
[61:43] about their happiness.
[61:45] >> No, I think I think that there's some
[61:47] some Coror Mc McCarthy quotes that would
[61:51] probably do better justice to their
[61:53] reality than the idea of happiness. I
[61:55] think that they are living in a world
[61:57] where they're more concerned with
[61:59] calories. They're more concerned with
[62:01] how much blood does it cost to walk a
[62:04] mile. They're more concerned with
[62:06] stealing the women from other tribes.
[62:08] They're not concerned with happiness.
[62:10] It's more apocalyptto than uh Downtown
[62:13] Abbey. You know, it's it's they're
[62:16] they're
[62:18] in a state of desperation. You could see
[62:20] it in their face.
[62:22] And that's where there's a further
[62:24] anthropological question of what happens
[62:26] in the future for these people. But one
[62:28] thing that we know for certain is that
[62:30] rapid contact destroys them. It's
[62:33] happened before. All of this has
[62:34] happened before. You know, when the
[62:36] outside world reaches an unconted tribe,
[62:38] the pathogens kill them. When the
[62:41] outside world reaches even an indigenous
[62:43] community, alcohol, outside pathogens,
[62:47] money can destroy an indigenous culture
[62:49] and take away their language in a single
[62:51] generation. So, so these types of of
[62:54] severely isolated cultures, if they want
[62:59] to come out and make contact with the
[63:00] indigenous communities that are their
[63:02] neighbors, that has to happen over time.
[63:06] And and they have to have the agency to
[63:08] do it, which means their forest needs to
[63:11] be protected.
[63:13] And so that's that's and that's all we
[63:15] know. You know, we don't know what their
[63:17] birth rates are, what their infant
[63:18] mortality rates are, where their old
[63:20] people are, what what what what are
[63:22] their creation myths, what are their
[63:23] beliefs? We have no idea.
[63:25] >> Do we even know where they live in terms
[63:27] of do they live in huts, houses? Do we
[63:28] know that?
[63:29] >> No, they don't. In fact, at this very
[63:31] moment right now, uh I would imagine
[63:33] that there's several of them hunched
[63:35] around a campfire in the darkness
[63:37] beneath 160 ft of canopy. You know,
[63:39] because when you're in the jungle,
[63:40] there's there's these these pillars
[63:42] going up, but then it's a it's a 4D
[63:44] environment because it's just you're
[63:46] walking. It's like you're walking along
[63:48] the bottom of the ocean. You're this
[63:49] tiny thing. And above you is all of this
[63:51] slithering life and frogs and things
[63:53] moving through the branches. And so
[63:55] they're they're huddled down there in
[63:56] the and below the Amazon rainforest. And
[63:59] somehow they figured out how to make
[64:01] fire,
[64:03] which if I handed you a lighter and a
[64:06] full cup of gasoline and said, "Have all
[64:09] the sticks you want in the jungle," you
[64:11] still couldn't make me a fire right now.
[64:13] >> How do you know they can make fire?
[64:14] >> Because we see them cook stuff. We find
[64:16] their camps. [sighs]
[64:19] But it's also conceivable because they
[64:22] don't have pots.
[64:24] It's conceivable that that they some of
[64:27] these people haven't seen water boil,
[64:30] right? They just drink water and it
[64:32] falls on them from the sky. They
[64:34] certainly don't know that water freezes.
[64:38] On this point of happiness, you said you
[64:39] saw desperation in their faces, but does
[64:42] that mean that you think they're not
[64:43] happy,
[64:44] >> or do you just think that
[64:46] >> that isn't even a sort of a paradigm
[64:48] that they even consider? It's all about
[64:51] survival.
[64:52] >> I think that we have we're inbuilt to
[64:54] enjoy moments of joy. I think that
[64:56] humans enjoy moments of interaction,
[64:58] moments of play. And not just humans, I
[65:00] think that animals in general. You look
[65:01] at, you know, two puppies chasing each
[65:03] other. They're having fun. You know,
[65:05] even on even on this day with shotguns
[65:07] loaded and bows cocked and we still
[65:10] found the time to smile a little bit at
[65:11] each other. Give me that machete. Yeah.
[65:13] Yeah. Come and get it. And we kind of
[65:15] like, you know, it was kind of like
[65:16] you're just as scared of us as we are as
[65:17] you. And it was it was a it was we were
[65:19] on the same level for that smile,
[65:22] >> you know? And I was like, oh, okay.
[65:24] Yeah. None of us want to do that.
[65:26] >> Um, and so there's there is happiness
[65:28] there. But I'm saying, you know, uh
[65:31] knowledge comes with benefits. You know,
[65:34] there's a lot of things that they may
[65:35] believe that I I remember when I was in
[65:37] college reading about an anthrop
[65:39] anthropologist group that got to
[65:40] somewhere in New Guinea and all the
[65:42] people were hiding in trees cuz they had
[65:45] they'd gotten to a point in their
[65:46] civilization where that where they
[65:48] believed that everything that bad that
[65:49] was bad came from magical spells. You
[65:52] know, if I fall and break my leg, it's
[65:53] cuz you set a magical spell on me and if
[65:55] I get sick, it's because of a magical
[65:56] spell. And everybody was so scared of
[65:57] upsetting each other that they'd all
[65:59] just started living in the trees and
[66:00] hunting and they were living in this
[66:01] constant fear state.
[66:04] >> And so, you know, you at times like
[66:06] that, you need someone to go, "Okay,
[66:07] guys, look, here's what, you know,
[66:09] here's what's happening. Let's get let's
[66:11] get let's get on the same page." And
[66:12] they may maybe they would be helped by
[66:15] having a small plantation of plantains.
[66:17] And so, if they have a bad week of
[66:18] hunting,
[66:20] they can just come in and they can they
[66:22] can take some of their own make get some
[66:24] of their own food. They don't need to
[66:25] start being agricultural. They can still
[66:28] be nomadic hunter gatherers, but maybe
[66:30] having some supplemental food out there
[66:32] in locations that they know about would
[66:34] help. But these are things for the local
[66:36] people and for anthropologists to figure
[66:38] out over time.
[66:40] >> I heard you say that children from the
[66:41] tribe who were raised by outside
[66:42] communities claim to remember nothing
[66:44] about their time in the tribe.
[66:46] >> It's haunting.
[66:51] >> What do you mean by that? I mean that a
[66:53] child washed down river on a log to one
[66:56] of the very very remote communities in
[66:57] the Amazon rainforest and was adopted by
[67:01] an indigenous community, people that
[67:02] speak an indigenous language as well as
[67:06] Spanish. And when he was old enough to
[67:09] be asked questions, someone said, "Hey,
[67:11] by the way, when you were living with
[67:12] Los Kalatos with the with the naked
[67:14] people, that's what they call them. Um,
[67:18] what was it like?" and he just went, "I
[67:21] don't remember." And walked away. But I
[67:22] mean, when he came down, he was 8 years
[67:24] old.
[67:25] You can't tell me you don't remember
[67:27] anything. And but it was a it was a it
[67:29] was a it was a guarded I don't remember.
[67:31] It was a I don't remember. No. Access
[67:34] denied.
[67:35] [gasps]
[67:36] It doesn't I mean, you got you know, and
[67:39] that's what people get wrong where they
[67:40] go, "Oh, these people still live, you
[67:42] know, in communion with nature." And
[67:44] it's like, yeah, and there's a lot of
[67:45] rape and murder and warfare and probably
[67:49] needless death from infections and
[67:51] disease and and and they're living a
[67:53] very different lifestyle, but
[67:56] it certainly is fascinating that they're
[67:58] out there. And I think that it only goes
[68:00] to illustrate that we what we're
[68:02] protecting here is truly that wild.
[68:04] Because a lot of people will say to me,
[68:06] well, how come you guys are so focused
[68:07] on protecting this river? There's
[68:09] thousands of tributaries in the Amazon.
[68:11] Why protect this 300,000 acres right
[68:14] there? It's like, well, this is the
[68:16] wildest part. John Mirror took Teddy
[68:18] Roosevelt on a camping trip when he
[68:20] wanted him to protect the Yusede Valley
[68:22] and the Sequoia trees. And he said, you
[68:25] have to see this. And so, he took
[68:26] Roosevelt and showed him how amazing it
[68:29] was. I mean, sequoia trees like that
[68:31] exist nowhere else on Earth. They're the
[68:34] biggest trees on the planet. If he if
[68:36] they hadn't protected them, they'd be
[68:37] gone.
[68:39] And so them having the foresight to
[68:41] protect those trees, then we still have
[68:43] sequoia trees. And so that's what we're
[68:45] doing on this river. It's like by
[68:46] protecting 300,000
[68:49] acres of forest, we ensure that those
[68:52] millennium trees, those skyscrapers of
[68:54] life continue to have monkeys, reptiles,
[68:57] amphibians, birds, mammals, that these
[68:59] tribes continue to live out in the far
[69:01] reaches. And then again to use the
[69:03] football field analogy in this vast
[69:05] expanse of wilderness, we found a way to
[69:08] use just like a little pin prick to
[69:11] actually bring people and let them see
[69:13] this amazing place. And so we, you know,
[69:15] the whole 99.99% of the thing is wild.
[69:18] And we that's why we built that
[69:19] treehouse to let you know some of our
[69:21] donors, some of our people, cuz now
[69:23] people from all over the world are
[69:24] helping us save this river. and the
[69:26] treehouse. That was a dream.
[69:29] You know, there's a there's a mist river
[69:31] that flows above the Amazon that's
[69:32] invisible and it's larger than the
[69:34] Amazon River itself.
[69:36] There's an invisible mist river above
[69:38] the Amazon that's larger than the river.
[69:40] >> Mist.
[69:41] >> Mist.
[69:42] >> Okay.
[69:43] >> And so the first time I saw it, I had
[69:46] climbed the tallest tree in the jungle,
[69:48] which took hours. And I was standing on
[69:50] a branch at dawn and I saw the sun
[69:52] illuminate the mist river going across
[69:54] the canopy.
[69:56] And I went, I have to share this with
[69:58] people.
[69:59] And so we built that treehouse on a
[70:01] promontory at the edge of the terrairma
[70:03] looking out over the jungle so that
[70:06] people can see the reserve, see all the
[70:08] forest that they're protecting. Because
[70:10] at this point, the way we've see this
[70:11] and see that picture below it, that's
[70:13] the wasteland. That's what happens when
[70:15] you don't protect the Amazon.
[70:18] Are you at all on some level jealous
[70:23] of how these unconted tribes live? Is
[70:27] there any part of you that wants to go
[70:29] and experience their world for a day or
[70:33] wishes you could
[70:35] spend some time living how they live?
[70:37] >> No.
[70:38] >> No,
[70:38] >> no. I really enjoy hanging out with my
[70:40] native friends like when spending a day
[70:42] piranha fishing. Um, but I also really
[70:45] love my camera roll and doing
[70:47] photography and having modern medicine
[70:48] and being able to FaceTime my mom when
[70:50] I'm in the jungle. Like, you know, I I
[70:52] don't I don't I don't I no romanticism
[70:55] about their state. That that seems like
[70:57] stress and destiny. I don't I don't need
[70:59] to I don't want I certainly don't want
[71:01] to do that. Now,
[71:02] >> is there anything that you learned or
[71:04] gleaned from them that I know a
[71:07] westerner like me who's spending a lot
[71:09] of time on, I know, screens and stuff
[71:10] and the way we live our lives might find
[71:13] useful.
[71:14] >> I don't think that that we're at the
[71:16] point where they're imparting lessons. I
[71:17] think we're we're at the point where
[71:18] we're learning which questions we want
[71:19] to ask. That was first contact.
[71:23] And so, at this point, our job is to
[71:25] figure out how do we how do we move
[71:27] forward? What do we what do they need?
[71:29] How do we ethically
[71:32] proceed in protecting this forest?
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[73:40] got so many photos here.
[73:42] >> What do you got? [laughter]
[73:45] I mean, in so many of these photos,
[73:47] you're holding massive snakes. And when
[73:49] I say massive snakes, I don't mean the
[73:51] snakes you guys listening are thinking
[73:53] about. I mean, anaconda sized snakes
[73:56] like, oh yeah, this was this was me and
[74:00] JJ's first first big anaconda that we
[74:03] big anaconda we caught. It was only
[74:04] about 12 feet. And uh yeah, that one
[74:08] that one this was a great snake because
[74:10] I'd never caught a big snake before. I'd
[74:13] always been, you know, you catch a small
[74:14] snake and I'd learned from Steve Irwin,
[74:16] you know, you catch a catch a snake by
[74:17] the tail and it's it might try to bite
[74:19] you. If you don't get it by the tail,
[74:21] snake's going to run away every time.
[74:22] Snakes are not never going to attack
[74:24] you. Period. So, I learned you catch a
[74:26] snake by the tail and then it's once you
[74:28] get it by the tail, it's going to come
[74:29] back at you and try and stop you from
[74:31] grabbing its tail. Great. And if you
[74:33] need to, you can get it by the head and
[74:34] you got control of the snake. But if you
[74:36] have the head, you have the snake. So
[74:37] that first snake, I mean, I'm talking
[74:39] about a 12ft snake that's, you know,
[74:41] that's at least as thick as my leg. And
[74:44] I ran in there and I said, "Jay, you
[74:45] come from that side. I'm going to come
[74:46] from this side. We get the snake. We're
[74:48] going to measure it." Just because we
[74:49] thought it was so fascinating. I ran in
[74:51] and I dove and I grabbed the snake by
[74:53] the head. Big mistake. Wraps around my
[74:57] arms. And the first thing that I
[74:58] realized was I had an anaconda
[75:00] handcuffs. Now, I couldn't I couldn't
[75:03] release the snake if I wanted to because
[75:04] it was around my wrists. And then the
[75:06] second coil came around my shoulders.
[75:09] And now I'm feeling the I can actually
[75:11] hear my collar bone start to flex the
[75:14] way a stick sounds right before it
[75:16] snaps. And JJ grabbed the snake by the
[75:18] tail and pulled the tail off. And then
[75:20] his other brother, they got to me right
[75:21] as I was about to I mean literally the
[75:23] eyes are going to come out of my head.
[75:24] It was going to crush you. That's what
[75:26] happens.
[75:27] And so he pulled that right off at the
[75:29] last second. So that was about as close
[75:30] as I came to knowing what it feels like.
[75:34] But that's not even a big one.
[75:36] >> I think you came a little bit closer.
[75:39] >> Yeah. No, that's that that's a
[75:43] >> Explain this to me. So, for anyone that
[75:44] can't can't see, I would highly
[75:46] recommend you look at the screen now.
[75:47] >> Um,
[75:48] >> please look away. Look away. Don't
[75:50] listen to him.
[75:51] >> This is a an absolutely crazy story.
[75:53] What What's going on in this photo? And
[75:54] why did you do that?
[75:55] >> Sure. This is actually a very important
[75:59] story. You know, you hear these people
[76:02] talk about how if you're going to
[76:04] succeed at anything, you have to become
[76:07] very familiar with losing. You almost
[76:09] got to learn to love it.
[76:12] And and so as we set out on this journey
[76:14] to explore the Amazon and to build
[76:18] relationships with the indigenous people
[76:19] and to study anacondas and to find a way
[76:21] to protect this place, at around 24
[76:24] years old, I got approached by Discovery
[76:26] Channel. And they said, "Kid,
[76:30] we've never seen one like you. Let's do
[76:32] a show where we take people into the
[76:33] Amazon rainforest and show them
[76:35] anacondas." And I said, "That'd be
[76:36] amazing." I said, "I would love to do
[76:38] that. I could teach people about the
[76:40] forest. Let's let's go." They said,
[76:41] 'Great, the only thing is they said, you
[76:43] know, it's not a good enough show if we
[76:45] just show them the science that you're
[76:46] going to do because we wanted to use as
[76:48] the apex predators of the ecosystem,
[76:50] they're, you know, if there's mercury in
[76:52] the system, they're bioaccumulating
[76:54] there. Any toxins that are in the
[76:55] Amazon, they're going to absorb. It's
[76:57] going to get into the fish and then into
[76:58] the cayman, into the birds, into the
[77:00] anacondas. They're the apex predator. We
[77:02] were doing groundbreaking research on
[77:04] anacondas.
[77:05] They said that wasn't good enough. They
[77:06] said, imagine if they said no one's, you
[77:09] know, reticulated pythons have eaten
[77:10] people. They said, "No one's ever had on
[77:12] record an anaconda eating a human." And
[77:14] I said, "It happens. It happens. I know
[77:16] a few people whose grandmother or uncle
[77:18] was eaten by an anaconda. It happens,
[77:19] but it doesn't happen where people no
[77:21] one's taking a picture of it." And so
[77:23] they said, "Well, if we make you a
[77:24] really expensive suit, will you get
[77:26] eaten by an anaconda?" I said, "I'll
[77:28] try." I said, "It's not going to eat.
[77:29] Snakes are sweethearts. It's not going
[77:30] to try to eat me." And they said, "But
[77:33] look, we we'll call the show Expedition
[77:35] Amazon. Send you out there with a team
[77:37] of scientists. We'll film the whole
[77:39] thing." Long story short, I agreed to it
[77:41] because what I thought at the time was,
[77:43] I keep seeing forest getting burned. I
[77:46] keep seeing my millennium trees go down,
[77:48] all of those monkeys and birds and
[77:50] snakes and beautiful animals that are
[77:51] getting incinerated. And they're telling
[77:53] me all I got to do to get a TV show
[77:55] that'll reach millions of people and let
[77:57] me get that message out there. All I got
[77:59] to do is at the end do this silly stunt
[78:00] to show people that snakes aren't that
[78:02] bad. And so we filmed this show for 6
[78:05] weeks.
[78:06] >> You agreed to what? I agreed to
[78:08] potentially be eaten by an anaconda.
[78:15] >> Okay.
[78:16] I mean, if it wanted if it wanted to, I
[78:18] had a breathing tube and I had a um it
[78:21] theoretically could have eaten me, but I
[78:23] knew it wouldn't cuz I know snakes. But
[78:25] the producers were very, you know, these
[78:27] are people that have never left the the
[78:29] the office building and have watched too
[78:31] many movies, and they wanted to see a
[78:34] guy get eaten by a snake.
[78:35] >> And you volunteered. Of course, I'd
[78:37] volunteer. I would have cut off my foot
[78:39] to save the forest. I'll do anything to
[78:40] save the forest. And so, when somebody
[78:42] gives you a chance like this, and it's
[78:44] funny, I actually spoke to Jane Goodall
[78:45] about this. I said, "There's this chance
[78:47] I have, and I think I could use I think
[78:49] I can navigate this in such a way that
[78:52] that at the, you know, we take people on
[78:53] an expedition through the Amazon, and at
[78:55] the end, I'll go I'll get in the pit in
[78:58] a special suit and I'll let the snake
[78:59] wrap around me, and I'll show people
[79:00] that anacondas are really these, you
[79:02] know, sweethearts." And she said, "I
[79:04] don't think it's going to go well." For
[79:05] anyone that doesn't know who Jane
[79:06] Goodall is,
[79:08] >> Jane Goodall, the famous pimeatlogist,
[79:10] the earthshattering scientist who
[79:12] redefined humans from men, the toolmaker
[79:15] to what we are now, the one who did more
[79:17] for conservation, wildlife, women's
[79:20] science than just about anybody else.
[79:23] >> And she's also the um person that quoted
[79:26] on the front of your book saying, "On
[79:27] behalf of the forests that I love, thank
[79:30] you, Paul, for writing this book."
[79:32] Clearly from reading through your story,
[79:33] she's um she's quite a hero of yours and
[79:35] has been for a long long time.
[79:37] >> Yeah. I mean, and going from when my
[79:40] parents were reading us, me and my
[79:41] sister, they'd be reading us stories at
[79:43] night, you know, Jane Goodall and Gomebe
[79:45] with the chimps and how she she didn't
[79:48] listen to the rules, she named them.
[79:50] Even though her her colleagues said,
[79:51] "You never name your study subjects."
[79:53] And she said, "They have names. They're
[79:54] they have personalities. They have
[79:56] names." She broke all the rules. And and
[79:59] so I grew up with Jane as sort of this
[80:01] historical
[80:02] figure, but she was still like a living
[80:04] historical figure. And so then when I
[80:07] when I when I actually met her, it was
[80:10] so incredible because I I met her at a
[80:13] talk that she had given. And this this
[80:15] informed the rest of my life. The the
[80:17] the grace and wisdom that she showed
[80:19] changed me as a person because I met her
[80:22] at a talk that she was giving in New
[80:23] York City. And I had printed out a
[80:25] couple of chapters. I'd printed out one
[80:27] of the chapters that became my first
[80:28] book where I'm taking care of a baby
[80:30] giant anteater.
[80:32] And I had printed out a chapter where me
[80:34] and JJ were looking for our first
[80:36] anaconda, this story. And I put those
[80:38] together with a little covered letter
[80:40] that's just said, "Hey, I love wildlife.
[80:42] I've been working in the Amazon for like
[80:43] 5 years and you've always been an
[80:46] inspiration to me. If I write a book,
[80:50] would you endorse it?" And so I gave
[80:52] this to her in the manila envelope while
[80:54] there was a line of 500 people and you
[80:55] know we you take the picture and she
[80:57] said thank you very much. She puts it
[80:58] aside and I said all right you know I
[81:01] tried my best and 48 hours later her her
[81:04] team reached out and said Jane read the
[81:06] material. She read the chapters and she
[81:08] thinks that they're wonderful and if you
[81:10] find a publisher let them know that Jane
[81:13] will endorse your book. And so then I
[81:15] went to the publishers and I said I have
[81:16] the endorsement of Jane Goodall and they
[81:18] said well that's basically Mother Earth
[81:19] herself. [laughter] Mhm.
[81:21] >> And they said, "So, so that's what got
[81:22] me in the door to become an author with
[81:24] my first book was Jane. You know, she's
[81:27] she was this titan of conservation, this
[81:29] legendary figure. And her just first of
[81:32] all, for someone that was on the road
[81:33] 300 days a year, that's an icon of
[81:36] science and conservation and hope. For
[81:40] her to have the presence of mind and the
[81:42] patience and the sense of responsibility
[81:44] to actually read something that some kid
[81:46] handed her, that's incredible. That's
[81:49] magic to me even to this day. And it and
[81:52] it matters to me and it informs how I
[81:54] act even to this day.
[81:56] But without Jane sort of waving her wand
[81:59] in my direction, I would have no career.
[82:01] There would be no Paul, no Jungle
[82:02] Keepers, no book. We wouldn't be sitting
[82:05] at this desk today. Jane Goodall saved
[82:07] my life.
[82:10] >> She's an iconic scientist, as you say,
[82:12] um known for groundbreaking research on
[82:14] chimpanzees and her work generally and
[82:16] globally on on conservation. Um, so you
[82:19] you decide that you're going to be eaten
[82:21] by an anaconda.
[82:23] >> Oh, yeah. That was a tangent. Yes.
[82:26] >> So, is this a wild anaconda or is this
[82:29] an anaconda held in captivity?
[82:31] >> How did you get the anaconda to eat you?
[82:33] >> So, let me see that next one on the
[82:35] picture.
[82:35] >> This one?
[82:36] >> Yeah. This is a snake called Eleanor.
[82:38] And we we named her this after my dear
[82:40] grandmother, who was an incredible woman
[82:42] and uh and uh the matriarch of our
[82:46] family. Now, Eleanor is the largest
[82:48] snake ever measured at the time,
[82:50] verifiably, scientifically measured. She
[82:53] was 18' 6 in and over over 100 kilos.
[82:56] And she was skinny. She hadn't eaten in
[82:57] a while. But imagine if she'd eaten a
[82:59] Cappy bar, she would have been, you
[83:00] know, 200 kilos. But um my team caught
[83:03] her while we were filming this show. And
[83:05] again, we were told the show would be
[83:07] called Expedition Amazon. The call sheet
[83:09] said expedition EA.
[83:12] Then when we were done doing our
[83:13] research in the Amazon, they said,
[83:14] "Look, fly to I forget if it was like
[83:17] Kentucky or Louisiana." They said, "F
[83:18] fly to some state. There's a guy with a
[83:20] snake. No one will know the difference.
[83:22] We'll blur it out." And they said, "Do
[83:24] this little stunt." I said, "We'll put
[83:26] it the last five minutes of the show
[83:28] just to show people and then we'll, you
[83:30] know, we'll hype it up in the news."
[83:31] They're like, "We got you." A lot of
[83:32] handshakes, right? And the day before I
[83:34] was supposed to go on the Good Morning
[83:37] America show with uh Mr. Matt Lowauour,
[83:41] who got mad at me for doing push-ups on
[83:43] the set. Um, the the day before I was
[83:46] supposed to go on the show, I'm here
[83:47] again. I'm a kid and I'm going, I I
[83:48] think I think we got it. I think we did
[83:50] it. We caught the biggest snake ever.
[83:52] The footage of us catching that snake is
[83:53] insane. We're all jumping in the river
[83:55] and wrestling this kraken and we catch
[83:57] this snake and we learned from her. We
[83:59] did, we were, it sounds crazy, but we
[84:01] were developing field methodology for
[84:03] studying the species and we learned all
[84:05] kinds of things about anacondas because
[84:07] we fed her a transmitter. learned how
[84:09] she moves through the environment. This
[84:11] is research that had never been done
[84:12] before.
[84:13] >> For context, feeding her a transmitter
[84:14] is putting a trans an electrical device
[84:18] >> basically in her throat that she eats,
[84:19] she consumes, and it stays with her till
[84:20] she dies. So, you can see what she's
[84:22] doing.
[84:22] >> It stays with her until she defecates
[84:24] it, which for snakes that thankfully is
[84:26] months.
[84:27] >> Okay?
[84:27] >> And so, we're doing this groundbreaking
[84:29] research. We caught this tremendous
[84:31] snake. We' survived a six week
[84:32] expedition in the Amazon. We had all
[84:34] this incredible footage.
[84:36] And the night before I'm supposed to go
[84:38] out on the morning shows,
[84:41] they showed me the film. It had none of
[84:44] the science.
[84:46] It had none of the conservation message
[84:48] that I was promised would be in the
[84:50] show. And instead, they focused on the
[84:53] stunt at the end. And they changed the
[84:55] name of the show to eaten alive. And
[84:58] then they sent me out the door to do the
[85:00] shows.
[85:02] And the public was mad because I didn't
[85:04] actually get eaten and they felt like
[85:05] they were lied to. PETA was mad because
[85:07] they felt like I had put a a snake's
[85:09] life in danger somehow. Somehow somehow
[85:12] the animal rights people were furious.
[85:14] And then the scientists were mad because
[85:16] they said, "Okay, you're just a you know
[85:18] a a
[85:19] shock person. You're just in in this for
[85:21] the thrill and you're not really a
[85:22] conservationist." So it put me out of
[85:24] work for years.
[85:25] >> Really?
[85:25] >> Yes. It set me back about 10 years.
[85:27] >> Really? I tried I took a big swing
[85:30] because I thought it would help my
[85:32] forest and I hit my head on the ceiling
[85:35] and fell down hard. The next day the
[85:37] news I mean you know all of the late
[85:40] night shows were making fun of it. Jimmy
[85:42] Kimmel was like you for your next stunt
[85:43] you should try having sex with a hippo.
[85:45] I mean people the comments were just I
[85:47] went to India and lived with the herd of
[85:49] elephants for a while. I mean I had to
[85:50] get out. I couldn't I literally
[85:52] couldn't. I said my dream of being a
[85:53] conservationist is over. I was told by
[85:55] one prominent conservationist not even
[85:58] to come to South America.
[86:01] And and again, the thing you have to
[86:03] remember through all of this is through
[86:04] the barefoot machete days, through going
[86:06] to the Amazon,
[86:08] the first
[86:10] 15 years of my 20-year journey, I had no
[86:12] support.
[86:13] >> So, [clears throat] I was living out of
[86:14] a backpack, living out of a boat in the
[86:16] Amazon barefoot with no paycheck, no
[86:19] health insurance, no security, no
[86:22] pathway forward. Um, so it it was it was
[86:26] very uncertain times. You know that you
[86:29] actually I think it may have been on
[86:31] your show. There's this great quote
[86:32] where I think it was Alex Hormosi was
[86:34] saying that confidence comes from giving
[86:36] people irrefutable proof that you are
[86:38] who you say you are. And when I heard
[86:41] that quote I thought that's great. And
[86:42] then the next thing I thought was well
[86:44] but you have to start building that
[86:46] proof in a direction. And for a lot of
[86:48] people, I think they find themselves
[86:51] standing on a high hill looking at a set
[86:53] of mountains and you have to choose
[86:55] which direction you're going in. And for
[86:58] me, I was a high school dropout who was
[87:02] never going to be a conservation
[87:04] biologist.
[87:05] And I was trained by the local people
[87:07] and sort of adopted by their tribe. And
[87:11] so I knew how to survive in the jungle
[87:13] and work with snakes and do all these
[87:14] crazy things. And I tried I tried to to
[87:20] take that message to television and I
[87:22] got Hollywooded hard. I got lied to and
[87:25] I got taken for a ride. But that failure
[87:28] ended up being the best thing that ever
[87:30] happened because what it did was it sent
[87:31] me right back to the drawing board. Said
[87:33] you're not ready yet. And so sometimes
[87:35] the things that you want are not the
[87:37] things that you need. And it's this
[87:39] beautiful thing where life sort of moves
[87:40] aside I know I know I know you want that
[87:43] but I'm I'm going to give you what you
[87:44] need, not what you want. And so this was
[87:46] a case where I really I took it hard. I
[87:49] mean, at the time it was a devastating
[87:50] loss
[87:52] and it was the best thing that ever
[87:53] happened because it it was the slap on
[87:55] the head that sent me back out into the
[87:57] jungle for years and years and years of
[87:59] of more experience. Double down. What do
[88:01] you really care about saving the forest?
[88:03] Well, if you care about saving the
[88:04] forest, how the hell are you going to do
[88:05] that? And we had to develop a system to
[88:09] do that. We had to develop a new
[88:10] technology as a way to save the forest.
[88:13] What actually happened here?
[88:16] >> So, we didn't I know you don't want to
[88:17] It sounds like you don't don't want to
[88:19] talk about it.
[88:19] >> It's just wasted air time to talk about
[88:21] it because we we rolled around on in the
[88:23] mud with a 16 ft anaconda and nothing
[88:25] happened.
[88:27] >> A lot of people will probably want to
[88:29] know why nothing happened. And I think
[88:30] part of that is because of what you're
[88:32] wearing.
[88:33] >> No, the reason nothing happened is
[88:35] because they had snake handlers wrapping
[88:36] the snake around me while I was in this
[88:38] ridiculous suit. Um, I mean, the things
[88:41] I will do, the things I will do to
[88:43] protect this forest, that snake, if it
[88:46] was left on its own, would crawl off.
[88:47] Any snake would would, if there was, if
[88:50] I had a black mamba in my hands right
[88:51] now and I put it on this table, it would
[88:53] slide off the table and find the darkest
[88:55] spot in the room and it would go hide.
[88:57] If I had a spitting cobra, same thing.
[89:00] No snake wants to deal with you. They
[89:02] just want to go hide. They want to go
[89:04] back to sleep.
[89:05] >> Most people are terrified of snakes.
[89:06] >> Most people are terrified of snakes. And
[89:08] that's why I think you're going to like
[89:09] what I have for you.
[89:10] >> What do you mean?
[89:11] >> I brought a friend today.
[89:14] >> You brought a friend?
[89:14] >> I did bring a friend and I want you to
[89:16] meet him.
[89:20] Now, this
[89:22] is a very, very small ball python. This
[89:27] is a baby. And one of the first things I
[89:30] try to impress upon people when they
[89:32] meet a baby snake is remembering that
[89:34] even if you're scared of snakes, you're
[89:36] the large apex predator. And this is
[89:39] just a tiny little reptile that is all
[89:43] alone in the world. They're born and
[89:45] they have to fend for themselves.
[89:48] And for some reason, ever since I was a
[89:50] little kid, I was fascinated with
[89:51] snakes. I thought they were beautiful. I
[89:53] love the way they moved. I thought the
[89:55] way they can hold up their bodies and
[89:56] flick their tongues. I find snakes
[89:59] calming and beautiful and fascinating.
[90:02] >> Is that snake dangerous?
[90:05] >> You could hand this snake to a baby.
[90:08] This snake is so harmless. I mean, the
[90:10] worst thing that this snake could do if
[90:12] I was to, let's just say, pinch her and
[90:15] hurt her. She could bite me, but even
[90:18] that would barely break my skin.
[90:21] This is a snake that's going to look for
[90:22] baby mice, little birds, maybe a frog,
[90:25] and try and grow to a larger size. Now,
[90:29] have you ever held a snake before?
[90:30] >> No.
[90:30] >> You've never held a snake?
[90:32] >> I don't think so. No.
[90:33] >> Oh, wow. That's wonderful. Well, this is
[90:35] such an easy one to start with, and I'll
[90:37] give you a few pointers.
[90:38] >> My hands are sweating over.
[90:40] >> So, a few things is that even a baby
[90:43] baby snake is going to interpret your
[90:46] inner state a little bit. if you're very
[90:49] nervous and jittery and the snake is
[90:52] gonna pick up on that. But you see how
[90:53] she's sort of just fitting to my hand.
[90:55] Yeah, she's done a few things here.
[90:56] She's got her anchor. She's got her tail
[90:58] around these two fingers. And the next
[91:00] thing is she's flicking her tongue to
[91:02] sense what's going on. She's she's
[91:03] looking around, but she's also
[91:06] she's not excited.
[91:07] >> She doesn't mind sweat.
[91:08] >> She doesn't mind sweat. My hands sweat
[91:10] quite a bit as well. And so I'm just
[91:12] going to place her in your hand nice and
[91:15] easy. And what you want to do is let her
[91:17] sort of grab on now. Now, what are you
[91:21] feeling right now? Let's just see what
[91:23] she does.
[91:23] >> I feel a little bit tense.
[91:24] >> That's okay. You can feel tense. Now, if
[91:26] you feel tense, the thing is she's
[91:28] probably going to return to me because
[91:30] she probably knows I love her.
[91:33] And
[91:33] >> I think she's right.
[91:34] >> Yeah. And that's okay. Why don't we just
[91:36] let her do that? And then you can get a
[91:38] sense for how she moves. And I'm going
[91:39] to give her a little hole to crawl
[91:41] through like that. And so what they do
[91:42] is they have all these muscles
[91:44] >> running along their body and you can
[91:46] feel that, right?
[91:46] >> Such a beautiful animal, I do have to
[91:48] say.
[91:48] >> Yeah. They're called ball pythons. They
[91:51] also call them royal pythons for that
[91:53] that beautiful black and gold.
[91:56] >> It's Can I Can I touch it with my thumb?
[91:59] >> You can. They don't love being pet.
[92:01] That's one thing about snakes. They
[92:02] don't A lot of people when they come
[92:04] around to suddenly loving snakes, they
[92:06] go, "Well, I want to pet it the way I
[92:08] want to pet a dog." And snakes will
[92:10] retract from that. So if you do it,
[92:12] touch her with your with your thumb. See
[92:14] how she moves away?
[92:15] >> She moved away. Yeah,
[92:16] >> she moves away. She doesn't like that.
[92:17] So usually with snakes, my my my rule is
[92:21] you you sort of have to be the be the
[92:22] tree.
[92:23] >> Okay. And is she a baby?
[92:26] >> Absolutely. These are these this is
[92:28] quite small. And so in the jungle on
[92:31] cold days, I'll find snakes like this
[92:33] and literally warm them up in my hands.
[92:36] I'll put them in here. And just if you
[92:37] can just look at that. Just look at how
[92:39] sweet she is. She'll just stay like
[92:40] that.
[92:41] >> She likes that.
[92:41] >> She likes that. She likes the warmth
[92:43] there. We are end. They are ectotherms.
[92:46] Like all reptiles, they depend on their
[92:47] environment for their body temperature.
[92:50] And so on the cold days, see that? See
[92:52] that? I move my hand closer.
[92:54] >> She got a little spooked. She went back
[92:56] into the
[92:57] >> Again, this is just a tiny baby. There's
[92:59] another one that is a similarly awesome
[93:03] example.
[93:06] This is her larger
[93:09] relative. Same species, right? So, this
[93:12] is a small ball python and this is a
[93:14] larger ball python. And notice that both
[93:17] of these there's no risk, right? There's
[93:19] no there's no danger here. It's not like
[93:21] I can't put these near my face. Again,
[93:23] both of these are sort of the golden
[93:25] retrievers of snakes. These are these
[93:27] are snakes that have been handled by
[93:29] responsible snake owners. So, will that
[93:32] small one grow into the big one or you
[93:34] saying they're the same sort of cousins?
[93:36] >> Yeah, this is a larger ball python. This
[93:38] is a smaller ball python.
[93:40] >> So, this one will eventually be the
[93:41] size.
[93:42] >> Absolutely. And this one could could
[93:43] grow to be double that size. Really?
[93:45] I've seen ball pythons be double that
[93:46] size.
[93:48] Now, this one
[93:50] slightly different game for holding.
[93:54] But see, like that. Look who's scared
[93:56] here. Me. Well, and and him.
[94:01] And so, look at that. He's beautiful.
[94:02] So, look, I'll just give you a sense of
[94:04] look at the power in a python.
[94:08] You think pull-ups are hard. He's
[94:10] holding on with no no legs, no claws,
[94:14] just strength.
[94:16] And he's just going to climb back up on
[94:17] onto my arm.
[94:26] So, what I'd like you to do is hold out
[94:28] your wrist.
[94:30] Yeah, you got this.
[94:33] Just straight across the table. Hold
[94:35] that right like that. Now, remember, if
[94:37] he does bite,
[94:39] >> you mean if he doesn't
[94:40] >> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Just hold him
[94:41] up high enough that he's not touching
[94:43] the table. Yeah. And then I'm just going
[94:45] to coax him up. He's okay. You're okay.
[94:47] You're okay. You're all right. You're
[94:48] all right. There we go. There we go. So,
[94:50] he's just gonna just just feel that
[94:52] power as he moves, which he will
[94:56] eventually.
[95:00] But, see, you can feel the power on this
[95:02] snake. It's a little bit more of a
[95:04] >> a little bit more musculature.
[95:06] >> They are stunning.
[95:12] You see that? That's it. He's like,
[95:14] "Okay, cool. You're holding me here."
[95:17] They're pretty relaxed animals. So,
[95:19] he'll go and eat a small prey item, go
[95:22] back into his burrow, and then digest
[95:25] for a week before going back out. And
[95:28] now you Now, if you want, you can take
[95:31] your other hand and put it under him to
[95:33] support him. And then he'll start to
[95:34] move over both of your hands. Why don't
[95:35] you try that? Put your other hand very
[95:37] gently right under his coil right there.
[95:41] He got scared of that. That's okay.
[95:44] Or you could put a thumb through the
[95:46] through the loop.
[95:47] >> Could do, couldn't I?
[95:48] >> Yeah, you could do that. You're loving
[95:50] all these suggestions.
[95:52] All right, now watch. Let's see what
[95:54] happens when you put him on the table.
[95:55] Cuz I bet you anything he doesn't enjoy.
[95:58] You feel that power? You feel that
[95:59] little bit of power there?
[96:00] >> Yeah.
[96:00] >> Now that's a snake this big. Wait till
[96:02] you see like with an anaconda or
[96:04] something.
[96:05] Now a table's sort of unfair. There's
[96:07] nothing for him to see this. He's going
[96:10] to he's going to flop a little bit.
[96:11] There's they're not supposed to be on a
[96:13] table. So, this is what I'll do. I'll be
[96:14] the
[96:16] I'll be the ground cuz then see look now
[96:20] he's pushing with all those little belly
[96:22] scales. See how he can cruise
[96:25] that incredible snake locomotion. Now
[96:28] watch if I take away his look. He's
[96:30] holds on. They don't want to. Now he's
[96:32] got nothing to push off of. So he's
[96:33] gonna he's going to do the inchworm
[96:35] thing.
[96:36] But you get a sense of how snakes move.
[96:38] They need that. They need the ground.
[96:40] They need pebbles. They need rocks. Now
[96:42] you Now catch him.
[96:44] Oh, come on, Mike. Catch him now. No,
[96:47] seriously. Not by the head. Start by the
[96:49] tail. Just right here. Just pick him up.
[96:51] And then once you pick him up, you can
[96:53] give him to me and then we can be done.
[96:55] But but Stephen, you have to catch the
[96:56] snake.
[96:57] >> Pick pick him up here.
[96:58] >> Just pick him up.
[96:59] >> He's not going to do anything
[97:00] >> now. Nice and slowly, too, cuz he's a
[97:01] friendly snake. You don't want to offend
[97:02] him.
[97:03] >> He seems to be tense.
[97:04] >> I mean, he is side eyeing you right now.
[97:06] >> That's what I mean. He seems like I'm
[97:07] side eyeing him. He's side eyeing me.
[97:09] But I'm telling you that the snake, all
[97:12] you got to do is just pick them up.
[97:14] >> And then when I pick him up, what do I
[97:15] do?
[97:15] >> Just pick them up and hand them to me.
[97:17] That's all you got to do. And then this
[97:19] is all over.
[97:20] >> Oh my god. I can't believe this.
[97:25] >> Oh my god.
[97:25] >> Beautiful. Right up up up up. Amazing.
[97:30] Wonderful. Now I'm going to take him.
[97:33] [laughter]
[97:35] >> All right. And then I have one more
[97:37] snake that I really need you to meet.
[97:39] Come here. You can't hold on to that.
[97:42] This
[97:44] This is a different story. And this is
[97:46] sort of the closest thing that we're
[97:48] going to get
[97:50] to an anaconda.
[97:52] I think the easiest thing I could do
[97:53] here is just let her get around my neck.
[97:56] >> What the [ __ ] is my life?
[97:57] >> So now what you don't want snakes to do
[98:00] is to close that gap, right? You don't
[98:03] want them to wrap around your neck.
[98:05] >> Could she kill you? She could.
[98:08] >> Then don't bring it over here.
[98:09] >> Well, I thought I thought you wanted to
[98:10] meet her, too. [laughter]
[98:12] >> But what what if she does something to
[98:14] me?
[98:14] >> No, no. So, this is a different type of
[98:16] snake. This is a Burmese python.
[98:18] And when you talk about large
[98:20] constrictors, those are small
[98:22] constrictors, the the ball pythons. This
[98:24] is a larger constriction constrictor.
[98:27] And Burmese pythons get to be big. These
[98:29] can go up to 18 ft long. And now what I
[98:32] think you're going to really appreciate
[98:35] is the power that these things have when
[98:38] you feel that power. And now just don't
[98:40] move. [sighs and gasps] Yeah. Now give
[98:43] her your hand. Take her take her with
[98:45] your hand. Good.
[98:48] Very good. Now hold this hand out. Good.
[98:52] Just like that. Now be the tree. Just be
[98:55] the tree. That's great. Yep. You want to
[98:58] come this way, girl? Come here. Her tail
[99:02] is hot.
[99:03] >> Yeah.
[99:04] >> Why? Why is the tip hot?
[99:06] >> Maybe she likes you.
[99:08] >> Okay, now she's just going to move
[99:10] behind your head. And I just want you to
[99:12] feel the muscles of that snake.
[99:14] >> What was that?
[99:15] >> Oh, yeah. That's great.
[99:16] >> Is she hissing?
[99:17] >> She's breathing. That's just her
[99:18] breathing cuz she's holding on. She's a
[99:20] ground snake. She's not really a tree
[99:21] snake.
[99:23] Now, Burmese pythons, they grow to be
[99:25] 18t long. They can take down deer.
[99:28] And so what you have right now is this
[99:31] beautiful granite Burmese python
[99:34] crawling on your shoulders. And you're
[99:35] doing great, by the way. You look very
[99:36] calm. Breathe. Don't forget to breathe.
[99:37] >> And she can kill a deer.
[99:39] >> No, no, she'll grow. She's still a baby.
[99:41] She's still small. She'll eventually be
[99:43] able to kill a deer. Now I just I don't
[99:45] want her to. Now, here's the thing.
[99:48] [snorts] I think she likes you.
[99:50] And so when I try to take her,
[99:52] >> the strength.
[99:53] >> The strength. Yeah.
[99:54] >> She could like break my pinky finger
[99:55] off.
[99:56] >> Yeah. So, let's just see what we do. So,
[99:59] we know a few things. We know that she's
[100:01] not going to hurt us. We know she's not
[100:03] going to eat that banana. I know she'd
[100:05] like her probably. Come on. You want to
[100:08] come up, girl? Yeah. See, I think they
[100:10] come to me. I think they know.
[100:15] You hear that? You hear that breathing?
[100:18] Have you ever done a podcast with a
[100:21] with a 10-ft snake across the table
[100:23] before?
[100:24] >> No, this is my first.
[100:25] >> This is amazing. It's such a It's such a
[100:28] joy to be here with a Burmese python
[100:29] there.
[100:30] >> So, I really This is the closest I can
[100:32] get you to an anaconda. I wouldn't bring
[100:33] an anaconda here. Their personality is a
[100:35] little different.
[100:36] >> Their personality is different.
[100:37] >> Oh, yeah. Different snake species just
[100:39] like you'd be a little bit more careful
[100:42] around certain dog species than you
[100:44] would others. Certain snakes. Now,
[100:46] notice, look, now I'm I'm I'm pulling a
[100:49] good deal here and she's not budging.
[100:50] So, now what you're going to do is just
[100:52] just massage the tail.
[100:54] >> What you mean massage? I would like you
[100:56] to massage the tail.
[100:58] Just Just maybe rub back and forth on
[101:00] her tail and there's going to be an
[101:01] instant reaction. Yep. Just keep doing
[101:03] that. She's not going to love that. Oh,
[101:06] she's hissing
[101:09] >> because there might be something back
[101:10] here that she can't see.
[101:11] >> Well, exactly. She doesn't want
[101:12] something interacting with her tail.
[101:15] >> She seems to be stuck to my the the
[101:17] diary.
[101:19] >> The diary itself.
[101:23] >> Okay, girl. Okay, girl. Okay, girl.
[101:25] >> She doesn't like that.
[101:27] >> Well, actually, why don't you just lift
[101:29] her lift that coil over up onto the
[101:30] table? You got this. Just like you
[101:32] lifted the other snake. You're going to
[101:34] have to do this to get through this.
[101:35] >> Just lift.
[101:36] >> No. See the part that's hanging over?
[101:37] Just lift it up onto the table.
[101:39] >> Oh my gosh.
[101:40] >> Yeah.
[101:41] >> Oh my gosh. It's so
[101:43] >> How would you describe it?
[101:44] >> It's like
[101:47] really soft, but then like you feels
[101:49] like pure muscle.
[101:50] >> Pure muscle. Yeah. She's very She's This
[101:52] is a very very strong snake. It's so
[101:54] heavy. I can't even pull it up.
[101:56] >> I I need I need you to try.
[101:58] >> I think she's resisting.
[102:00] >> Come on. You're not going to hurt her.
[102:01] Just right around the edge of the table.
[102:03] Just up onto the table.
[102:04] >> I can't. It's too
[102:06] >> Come on. You got this. You got yourself.
[102:09] Pretend we're in the Amazon. And this
[102:10] snake is strangling me to death. And the
[102:12] only way to save my life is to take that
[102:14] snake's tail up.
[102:16] >> But David,
[102:17] >> she's gripping to just [laughter] take
[102:19] >> MY EYES ARE POPPING OUT OF MY HEAD.
[102:20] >> NO, I'M BEING SERIOUS. SHE'S LIKE, SHE I
[102:22] can't I can't move her off. She's like,
[102:24] >> "Yes, you can." Come on. Pull her out.
[102:26] Bring her around. You got this. Look at
[102:27] your arms.
[102:28] >> I know. I know. I'm scared.
[102:29] >> You got this. You got this. Believe in
[102:31] yourself. Come on. Get her up.
[102:34] Just Just do it. There. There is no try.
[102:37] >> She doesn't want then. I'm going to die.
[102:40] >> Don't make Don't make me come over to
[102:41] the other side of that snake and get
[102:42] her. Come on. You got Yeah. There we go.
[102:47] There we go. That wasn't so bad.
[102:49] She's wrapped around the diary again.
[102:51] She's got inside the diary.
[102:52] >> Okay, listen. The diary has to remain
[102:54] intact, girl.
[102:55] >> So, yeah, this is
[102:58] >> this is a beautiful, beautiful snake.
[103:01] But you sort of see how people have a
[103:03] misconception about snakes. Now, what
[103:04] she's trying to do right now, even this
[103:07] snake that knows what what humans are,
[103:08] she's just trying to say, "All right,
[103:10] get me out of here." You know, she's
[103:11] going, "Where can I go rest?"
[103:13] >> And what what does she eat when she
[103:15] grows up? What do these
[103:17] >> Well, Burmese pythons, they get big. So,
[103:19] she's going to start with rats and birds
[103:21] and frogs, and they start small. They
[103:23] start just like the ball python. But
[103:25] when she gets big, you're talking about,
[103:26] I mean, Burmese pythons, deer, dogs,
[103:30] >> humans.
[103:31] >> Uh, Burmese pythons, I don't think, are
[103:33] confirmed eating humans. Reticulated
[103:35] pythons, which is actually the longest.
[103:37] Interesting fact, anacondas are the
[103:39] biggest snake on Earth. Reticulated
[103:41] pythons are the longest and they're the
[103:43] only ones that are on YouTube
[103:46] having eaten humans. They're confirmed
[103:48] maneaters,
[103:50] but these berms, they're just big,
[103:52] powerful snakes and they're
[103:54] >> they're pretty placid.
[103:57] >> It's such a beautiful animal, even
[103:58] though it is a little bit scary um for
[104:00] some reason.
[104:01] >> Yeah.
[104:01] >> I think maybe because we've all grown up
[104:03] watching films like anaconda that we
[104:05] think of snakes as being
[104:06] >> terrifying, but it's such a beautiful
[104:08] >> I see what you mean with the table.
[104:09] Yeah, exactly.
[104:10] >> She's really in there. Yeah. Yeah.
[104:12] >> All right. Maybe you were right. See,
[104:13] this is interesting. Anacondas have
[104:15] bigger.
[104:16] >> Yeah. They don't like being touched on
[104:17] the head and they don't like um they
[104:19] don't like their
[104:20] >> cloa touched the base of their tail,
[104:23] their vent.
[104:25] >> Should people be scared of snakes? Do
[104:26] you
[104:27] >> I think people should be respectful of
[104:28] snakes the same way you're respectful of
[104:30] heights. Go get Steven. Good girl.
[104:34] Good girl. Go get him. Go get the diary.
[104:37] >> Would she eat the banana? No, no, they
[104:40] are what we call obligate carnivores.
[104:42] They can only eat uh other animals,
[104:47] but I mean, whatever they can fit.
[104:49] Unfortunately, Burmese pythons have been
[104:51] introduced to Florida and there's no
[104:54] predators in Florida that can handle the
[104:56] Burmese python. So, they're eating the
[104:58] alligators, the birds, the native
[105:00] wildlife. They've become a terrible
[105:01] invasive species, which is sort of bad
[105:04] PR for Burmese pythons. But when they're
[105:07] in their native habitat of Southeast
[105:08] Asia, they're just wonderful big apex
[105:12] predator snakes.
[105:13] >> Can she bite?
[105:15] >> 100%. They have big teeth. If she was to
[105:17] bite one of us right now, it would draw
[105:19] quite a bit of blood.
[105:22] I mean, she has to be able to latch on
[105:24] to her prey, right? So, all the more
[105:26] credit goes to her for not doing that.
[105:28] Go get Steven. Good girl.
[105:31] Good girl.
[105:32] >> Maybe you should have the head down that
[105:33] end.
[105:34] >> I think I think See, now what I'm doing
[105:35] is I'm massaging the tail because I know
[105:38] that she's going to go for you.
[105:40] Good girl. Yeah. Right at him. Right at
[105:44] him. [laughter] Now, come on. Come on.
[105:46] Let her get.
[105:48] Yes. Good girl.
[105:51] Oh, this is so great.
[105:53] This Burmese python is wants to know
[105:56] what is inside the diary of a CEO.
[106:00] She's trying to hide.
[106:01] >> Yeah, she is trying to hide. And so, you
[106:03] know what? We're going to let her do
[106:04] that. She's been a very good sport. And
[106:07] I'm going to take her away.
[106:10] >> That's fantastic.
[106:11] >> It is a be It's such a majestic animal.
[106:13] Like, I [clears throat]
[106:15] slightly scary, but also
[106:16] >> going to hand her over the cameras.
[106:19] >> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say
[106:21] to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you
[106:23] to come even deeper into the diary of a
[106:25] CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is
[106:28] a brand new private community that I'm
[106:30] launching to the world. We have so many
[106:32] incredible things that happen that you
[106:34] are never shown. We have the briefs that
[106:36] are on my iPad when I'm recording the
[106:38] conversation. We have clips we've never
[106:40] released. We have behind the scenes
[106:41] conversations with the guest and also
[106:43] the episodes that we've never ever
[106:45] released and so much more. In the
[106:48] circle, you'll have direct access to me.
[106:50] You can tell us what you want this show
[106:52] to be, who you want us to interview, and
[106:53] the types of conversations you would
[106:55] love us to have. But remember, for now,
[106:58] we're only inviting the first 10,000
[107:00] people that join before it closes. So,
[107:02] if you want to join our private closed
[107:03] community, head to the link in the
[107:04] description below or go to
[107:05] daccircle.com.
[107:09] I will speak to you there. What would
[107:11] you say to a young person who's probably
[107:12] in the pursuit of a completely different
[107:14] dream? Are there anything that you
[107:15] consider to be transferable for anyone
[107:17] in the pursuit of their dreams that you
[107:18] learned in those 15 years in your
[107:19] barefoot machete days?
[107:22] Yeah, I think that that you have to log
[107:24] your time as a beginner in order to earn
[107:28] your time as a master.
[107:31] And there's this beautiful saying that I
[107:33] start the book with which is that the
[107:36] master has failed more times than the
[107:38] beginner has even tried.
[107:41] And that to me is beautiful. And so it's
[107:43] like when I went down there and began
[107:47] even trying to catch a fish, you know, I
[107:49] didn't know how to do anything. and and
[107:51] and I would look at these conservation
[107:53] biologists and and just think, "My god,
[107:56] I'm never going to be one of them
[107:57] because I'm never going to have the
[107:58] grades to be a conservation biologist."
[108:01] Now, at the point we're at now where we
[108:03] are, we have this global movement around
[108:04] conservation, we have this huge
[108:06] conservation organization that's
[108:07] fighting to do something historic, I do
[108:10] get messages from kids all over the
[108:12] world that say, "I I I really want your
[108:14] job, or I want to get out there and I
[108:17] want to do I want to follow my dreams."
[108:19] What would you say to them?
[108:20] >> Well, I had a kid recently that he he
[108:22] messaged me and he said, 'I really want
[108:23] to study great whites. And he said, "But
[108:25] marine biology is so competitive and and
[108:28] none of the professors will give me, you
[108:29] know," and I said, "Listen, forget all
[108:31] that." I said, "Do your school. Get it
[108:33] done." I said, "But go to the dock. Find
[108:35] out where the preeminent marine
[108:37] biologists are going to go do their
[108:39] great white research. Go to that dock.
[108:42] Help them with their bags. Get off your
[108:44] phone. Get off the internet. Stop asking
[108:47] permission. get on your feet and go
[108:49] there to the waves. And sooner or later,
[108:53] they're going to need help with their
[108:55] bags. Sooner or later, they might invite
[108:56] invite you on the boat. And after you've
[108:59] been helping with their bags and invited
[109:00] on the boat, maybe you take some
[109:01] pictures of a pivotal moment that they
[109:03] use to communicate their work to the
[109:05] world. At some point, you can find a way
[109:07] to make yourself useful to them. And if
[109:10] you do that for long enough, you might
[109:12] just end up being somebody that's a core
[109:14] member of their team. People at those
[109:16] family barbecues must have asked you if
[109:18] you had a plan B.
[109:19] >> Are you a fan of plan B's?
[109:21] >> I think I actually think that I'm not
[109:23] the example to follow because I went so
[109:26] I had I burned the boats. I had no plan
[109:28] B and and and now as I'm sitting across
[109:31] the table from you, it's very easy. I
[109:33] remember being younger and hearing these
[109:35] people and you listen to a successful
[109:37] business person go, you know, if I could
[109:38] do it, then anyone could do it. If it
[109:40] could happen to me, then shut up. You
[109:42] already made it. Like and it's like if
[109:44] you if you read the pages of that book
[109:47] and how many times I almost died, had
[109:49] infections, almost fell off a cliffs,
[109:52] got bitten by animals. Also, the the
[109:53] internal struggle of then being 32,
[109:58] you know, 18, they oh, go follow your
[110:00] dreams. 25, they're like, yeah, that's
[110:02] cool. And then something happened when I
[110:04] was around 32, 33, that was sort of the
[110:08] the lower point for me, right? My dad
[110:10] was dropping me off somewhere one day
[110:12] and and and my dad would always always
[110:14] supporting me, bringing me to the
[110:15] jungle, taking me to the airport,
[110:16] bringing me home. I didn't have the
[110:18] money to get myself there with taxis and
[110:20] Ubers and stuff. And
[110:23] but there came this moment where, you
[110:24] know, I'd written my first book.
[110:27] Harper College. I've gotten a real
[110:29] publisher. The book came out and it went
[110:31] nowhere.
[110:33] So even that I'd tried to be, you know,
[110:36] on Discovery Channel. I'd tried to write
[110:38] a book. I wrote a good book. I knew
[110:40] people liked it. It had a high rating.
[110:42] Didn't do anything. That didn't change
[110:43] anything. I'd started an organization. I
[110:46] started jungle keepers. I'd turned
[110:47] loggers into and gold miners into
[110:49] conservation rangers. We protected like
[110:52] 50,000 acres of rainforest, but still
[110:53] there was some feeling like like it just
[110:56] wasn't, you know, you're striking flint
[110:57] and like it's just not the fire is not
[110:59] catching. There's something missing. It
[111:00] wasn't happening. He my dad went,
[111:04] you know, we love you no matter what.
[111:08] Ah. [sighs] And I went, "Don't do this."
[111:11] He said, "No, no, no. You know, you
[111:12] know, if you eventually," he goes, "If
[111:14] you need to jump ship and start over,"
[111:16] he's like, "You know, we'll help you
[111:17] with whatever you need." And I said,
[111:18] "What do you mean start over?" And he
[111:20] was like, "Well, you know, I mean, what
[111:22] are you going to do this jungle guy
[111:23] thing forever?" And I went, "Oh, God.
[111:26] Oh, God." Like, no. And you know, and
[111:29] then he said, "And if and if you do need
[111:30] to do that forever, it's okay." And it's
[111:33] like, but they they didn't they couldn't
[111:35] conceptualize it. And it was very soon
[111:36] after that that that on that graph. It
[111:39] was very very soon after that. It was
[111:41] actually right at the point that I quit
[111:43] right before COVID. And this is this is
[111:45] sort of the the lowest point that I was
[111:47] supposed to never tell anybody. And I
[111:49] wrote about it in the book where before
[111:51] CO when CO hit, I couldn't get to the
[111:53] jungle. Our whole team had CO. Peru was
[111:56] the hardest hit country in the world. I
[111:58] mean all of my staff, my friends, my
[112:00] family in Peru, they were all on oxygen
[112:01] tanks. Whose mother whose sister whose
[112:03] daughter was dying? We bankrupted
[112:06] ourselves sending money. We the whole we
[112:08] took the whole ecoourism businesses sent
[112:10] all the money to Peru to get our friends
[112:12] oxygen tanks and to keep our family
[112:13] alive. And
[112:17] it was also during that time that I
[112:18] realized I have nowhere to go like in
[112:21] this world. I was like I don't make
[112:22] sense in this world anymore.
[112:26] And I I called my best friend. I called
[112:27] Mosen my best friend. I said and I said
[112:29] don't I said don't tell anybody what I'm
[112:31] about to say but I said I'm going to go
[112:32] get a job. I said, "I've been doing this
[112:34] for so long. I tried really hard. I
[112:37] tried for 15 years." I said, "I'm out of
[112:40] gas. I I'm out of I'm out of ideas. I
[112:42] have I have been burning so bright. I've
[112:45] been making making the fire myself."
[112:49] I said, "I got nothing. I got no more
[112:50] ideas." And of course, he said, "You
[112:53] shut up." He said, "You inspired me. You
[112:55] started Jungle Keepers. You know, I
[112:57] don't want to ever hear this from you
[112:58] getting hung up on me." But I said, but
[113:00] I told him, I said, "I quit." I said,
[113:01] "I'm out. I'm done. I'm done. I have no
[113:03] hope left.
[113:06] And exactly a week after I made that
[113:08] phone call where I quit, our first big
[113:11] funer reached out. A billionaire named
[113:13] Dax Silva had seen my video of saying
[113:16] the Amazon is destroying and we have the
[113:18] people. We have the plan. We have the
[113:20] infrastructure. All we need is the
[113:21] funding and we can save this river. And
[113:24] the week after I quit in the in the
[113:26] alchemy of the universe, that's when he
[113:29] called me and said, "You know what?
[113:31] Green light. Let's do it. How about a
[113:34] five-year commitment where I fund jungle
[113:36] keepers and we turn the local ranger,
[113:38] the local loggers and gold miners into
[113:40] conservation rangers. We get you and
[113:42] some of your guys a salary and we make
[113:44] this whole thing viable. And by the way,
[113:45] let's protect another 100,000 acres of
[113:47] forest.
[113:50] And if we hadn't spent years and years
[113:53] and years chipping at the same piece of
[113:56] granite, just just whether or not you
[113:58] can hammer through granite depends
[113:59] whether or not you continue to whack the
[114:02] hammer. And so for me and JJ, for Mosen,
[114:06] who was sort of the first iteration, the
[114:08] first person that came and and took the
[114:10] photos that allowed us to communicate
[114:12] all of those photos of burning forest
[114:14] and the wreckage. He was the first guy.
[114:16] He came in the barefoot machete days and
[114:18] he said, I mean, that was at a time
[114:19] where I didn't even know anything was
[114:20] ever going to happen. And he said, you
[114:22] know, what you guys are doing here is
[114:23] special. We have to show it to the
[114:25] world. And so on that graph, nothing
[114:27] nothing nothing. And then a little blip,
[114:30] all of a sudden, we had a funer. And
[114:32] then once you once you get a funer, when
[114:34] when you're when you're doing it all by
[114:35] yourself, nobody's rooting for you. And
[114:37] then once you once you start once you
[114:39] start to get a little momentum and a
[114:40] little notoriety, all of a sudden then
[114:42] everybody comes. So then then I quit.
[114:44] And that was the lowest point. And then
[114:46] all of a sudden he rescued us and we
[114:47] started going up and then we started
[114:49] sharing it and then we got to the United
[114:51] Nations and then we got to and all of a
[114:52] sudden we started gaining this momentum
[114:55] and that that that that magic that Jane
[114:57] had given us with her words also served
[115:00] as as sort of a blessing that carried us
[115:03] forward because people said well if Jane
[115:04] Goodall gave you this Excalibur sword of
[115:07] her blessing
[115:09] then then go forth and save the Amazon
[115:12] and everything changed. How do people
[115:15] know
[115:17] in the pursuit of their dreams whether
[115:18] they should throw in the towel or not?
[115:20] Like how based on your experience there,
[115:23] if someone came to you and said, "Look,
[115:24] I've been I've been doing something for
[115:26] a long time and I don't know whether to
[115:28] keep going or not." Is there a framework
[115:30] or an idea that you might offer them?
[115:36] I think that
[115:38] in my case
[115:41] if I follow the rational advice I would
[115:44] fail.
[115:45] If I was giving myself advice as a
[115:47] rational person I would say after the
[115:51] first 10 years
[115:53] cut your losses and stop like what are
[115:55] you doing? It doesn't make any sense cuz
[115:56] then even after 15 years what am I going
[115:58] to do? Go then enter the workforce with
[116:01] no skills and no resume and no nothing.
[116:03] I just it was getting more and more
[116:05] extreme. And I was like, "Okay, well,
[116:06] I'm just going to be this Jack Sparrow
[116:07] jungle character." I don't know,
[116:11] for for everyone, it's going to be
[116:13] different. But I can tell you this much,
[116:15] if you're not willing to go allin,
[116:18] you're not going to win. Like, you have
[116:20] to take that risk to get that reward.
[116:23] And so, you go, "Okay, I've been I've
[116:25] been I've been doing this thing for 10
[116:26] years, and and I just Well, you're 100%
[116:29] not going to get it if you stop. But at
[116:31] the same time, there's this haunting
[116:33] quote in the in the Razer's Edge, this
[116:36] book, where they say, "Many are called
[116:38] and few are chosen." And I think that
[116:40] goes for whether you're starting a
[116:42] business or a band or trying to be a
[116:45] writer or whatever it is. It's you have
[116:47] to know when it's when it ceases to be
[116:49] chasing your dreams and becomes sort of
[116:52] a sad suicide. And then and then you
[116:54] know at what point I was very worried
[116:56] that it was going to become my identity
[116:58] that I was the jungle guy so I'd just
[117:00] keep being the jungle guy
[117:01] >> and then there's no getting out of it.
[117:03] I'd have to do it because I said I
[117:04] would. And so I think for people maybe
[117:06] having an option B is a good idea. That
[117:08] might be one of the things that I
[117:10] learned is that having some sort of an
[117:12] option B might be good. This is um as
[117:15] you've highlighted the great risk of
[117:17] giving people advice when you've reached
[117:19] the top of the mountain
[117:21] >> because it's easy from the top of the
[117:22] mountain to recite how you managed to
[117:24] climb. But you you like even when I
[117:27] think about myself as a podcaster like
[117:28] if someone came and asked me
[117:29] >> how do you build a podcast or how do you
[117:31] build a business whatever
[117:32] >> I probably won't point at the luck and
[117:36] the timing and the fortune as much. I'll
[117:38] point at the things that I did
[117:39] intentionally. Um, and I'm completely
[117:42] unaware of the fact that actually, you
[117:43] know, even with the podcast, like
[117:44] starting a podcast in 2020 when we first
[117:47] came to YouTube was like the perfect
[117:48] timing.
[117:49] >> Yeah.
[117:49] >> And at the time, we didn't know it was
[117:50] the perfect timing.
[117:51] >> Yeah.
[117:52] >> We were just out there on the wave and
[117:53] then as it came into shore.
[117:55] >> Mhm.
[117:55] >> And so, but you look at the statistics
[117:57] and go, look, there's a lot of people
[117:59] that want to be conservters
[118:03] or entrepreneurs, whatever.
[118:05] >> Most of them
[118:07] don't make it. So, they're not sat here
[118:09] talking. They're not they're not here
[118:11] now.
[118:12] >> Yes.
[118:12] >> Because they, you know, something
[118:13] happened, they gave up, they couldn't
[118:14] make it, the business went bust.
[118:16] >> And there's a really interesting I'm
[118:18] probably going to butcher this, but it's
[118:19] an interesting story I read about these
[118:21] fighter jets. I think it was in World
[118:22] War I. And um you might have heard the
[118:25] story. These fighter jets come back with
[118:27] holes in them. So, everybody sat there,
[118:29] all these engineers said, "Well, if we
[118:31] want to figure out how to make better
[118:32] fighter jets, let's study where the
[118:34] bullet holes are because then we know
[118:36] where people are shooting."
[118:37] >> So, they took the jets down. and they
[118:38] looked at where the bullet holes were
[118:40] and they said, "We'll reinforce those
[118:41] sections." An engineer at the back, and
[118:43] I've forgotten his name, but I'll put
[118:44] them up on the screen, shouted out,
[118:47] "Shouldn't we look at where there isn't
[118:48] holes
[118:50] >> because where there isn't holes, those
[118:52] ones didn't come back?"
[118:54] >> And this is the whole the problem with
[118:56] survivorship bias
[118:58] >> is actually maybe you should be getting
[118:59] advice from the people in the graveyard,
[119:01] not the people that came back. Maybe you
[119:02] should be looking at where the whole the
[119:04] bullets didn't hit because that's the
[119:07] fatal area if that makes sense. And I
[119:08] think there's a lot. It's really in the
[119:10] last couple of years I've got more
[119:11] cautious about giving people advice for
[119:12] the same reasons you said.
[119:14] >> Yeah. I mean, you got to remember every
[119:15] one of the frozen bodies on Everest were
[119:18] once a highly motivated rich person that
[119:21] thought they could succeed
[119:23] and now they're an icicle. Mhm.
[119:25] >> And so I mean it's surreal to be sitting
[119:28] here especially today on the day that I
[119:30] got the news that this book is a New
[119:32] York Times bestseller.
[119:34] And again now I'm immediately I'm I'm
[119:36] I'm having that reaction to myself where
[119:38] I'm going don't give advice because they
[119:41] they should not do that that I did very
[119:43] dangerous things there. Very very
[119:45] dangerous things including risking my
[119:47] life. Not I don't mean risking my life
[119:49] with anacondas and risking my life with
[119:51] being hunted by narco traffickers. I
[119:53] mean risking spending my life doing
[119:56] something that would have no benefit.
[119:59] Risking spending my life simply just
[120:01] being an adventurer. Great. Okay. Well,
[120:03] how am I contributing? The whole thing
[120:05] was that I wanted to have purpose. I
[120:07] wanted to have a meaning and and change
[120:08] things. And so I I this is not a
[120:12] blueprint for people to do what I did.
[120:14] It's a blueprint of oh look what this
[120:16] person did. But people have to I mean
[120:18] that's the whole game, right? That's the
[120:20] other thing we've become very precious
[120:21] about, you know, curating our lives and
[120:24] making sure. But you know what, one
[120:26] thing that the unconted tribes or
[120:28] reading about the Comanches
[120:30] um or watching an animal hunt, you know,
[120:32] you watch a tiger hunt and in every
[120:34] single hunt that the tiger goes on, they
[120:36] are they're they're betting all the
[120:37] chips. Like a large deer can kick and
[120:40] split their skull or knock their front
[120:42] teeth out with a hoof. And that might be
[120:44] the last hunt that tiger ever goes on,
[120:46] but sort of betting the house is part of
[120:48] the game. And so that's part of where I
[120:50] got to where where I was so many years
[120:53] in and once once we got to a certain
[120:55] point once we you know there was that
[120:57] there was that that dip where I said
[120:58] maybe I'm not this guy and you have to
[121:01] choose who you are right it's like you
[121:03] know the oracle told said to Neo she
[121:05] goes you know you're not the one you go
[121:07] okay you know and I I I did that to
[121:10] myself I went well I'm not this isn't
[121:12] going going to work but then once then
[121:14] then a few years later if you talked
[121:16] even if you talked to me two years ago I
[121:17] would have
[121:18] I don't care what happens. I'm just
[121:20] going to keep riding boats through the
[121:21] Amazon. It'll be fine. I didn't know
[121:25] that it was going to go like this. And
[121:27] that now we're all of a sudden now we
[121:29] are the ones responsible for carrying on
[121:32] Jane's message of hope of reminding
[121:35] people that you can turn around a
[121:37] seemingly terminal situation where the
[121:42] entropy of global modernization is
[121:44] destroying one of the largest ecosystems
[121:46] on Earth. What could one person possibly
[121:49] do? Well, we found a way.
[121:51] >> There is something poetic in the idea
[121:53] that you were pushed to your edge of
[121:56] being able to survive
[121:58] >> and at the moment when
[122:00] >> you got right to the edge of your own
[122:02] survival.
[122:02] >> Yeah.
[122:03] >> The torch of helping the Amazon to
[122:05] survive was then passed to you.
[122:07] >> When I was a kid, you learn these
[122:08] stories. You hear the old stories where,
[122:10] you know, the young man goes on an
[122:12] expedition and along the way he meets a
[122:13] a beggar and he helps the beggar cross
[122:15] the bridge and then, you know, he's
[122:16] going through this way and he meets some
[122:17] bird that's stuck in a in a net and he
[122:19] helps the bird and then, you know, then
[122:20] later on when he finds the princess and
[122:22] he's trying to fight the dragon and then
[122:23] all of a sudden the beggar helps and
[122:25] then the bird gets him out of the thing
[122:26] and it's like, oh, these people come in
[122:27] and they help. That was the archetypal
[122:29] story that I got. And I think that
[122:32] that's also the archetypal story that
[122:33] then I ended up living where it's like,
[122:35] you know, JJ said, "We should I'm local
[122:37] and we should protect this forest. This
[122:39] place we should protect." And I was
[122:41] like, "That's amazing." And I and he and
[122:44] he had the keys to the Amazon. We got to
[122:45] go on adventures. And then it was like
[122:47] Mosen showed up. He's like, "I got the
[122:48] cameraman. I could show the world what
[122:50] you do." And then we had this guy Stefan
[122:52] showed up and other people showed up.
[122:53] And all of a sudden, you know, you start
[122:55] to amass this team of Avengers where you
[122:57] go, "Wait, wait, hold on. These people
[122:59] are really talented people that have and
[123:00] we didn't realize, you know, JJ's the
[123:02] jungle man. Mosen's a photographer.
[123:04] Stefan came in. He was running teams at
[123:06] Apple.
[123:07] >> Jane Jane's the mentor.
[123:08] >> Jane's Jane's the wizard. Jane's the
[123:10] Gandalf.
[123:11] >> Yeah.
[123:12] >> Jane was the one saying, "This is what
[123:13] you got to do. You got to get the ring
[123:14] to Mount Doom." And uh and then suddenly
[123:19] it happens. But but you can't you can't
[123:21] tell people that they're going to you
[123:23] know that that whole thing of in in the
[123:25] movies where it's like you know there's
[123:26] 10 guys with guns and you go how are
[123:27] they getting out of this one [laughter]
[123:29] you know and it's like I've been in that
[123:30] situation so many times and I think in
[123:32] order to have the luck of getting bailed
[123:35] out you either better be a mega black
[123:38] belt and have some real good friends and
[123:40] they better show up when it counts. And
[123:42] so it's like you don't want to give
[123:44] people advice to do that because because
[123:47] then you're telling them to to take
[123:48] risks they shouldn't be taking. But
[123:50] coming from someone who took all the
[123:52] risks, who bet my entire life on
[123:55] becoming a jungle keeper and saving a
[123:57] river and who bet my entire life on
[124:00] going on these expeditions and jumping
[124:01] on anacondas and running from elephants
[124:03] when I was in Africa and India,
[124:05] I happened to have made it.
[124:08] In my job as a podcaster, I meet lots of
[124:11] people who have climbed to the top of
[124:12] their proverbial mountains, whether it's
[124:14] in comedy or sports or business or
[124:16] >> as a conservationist. And I think one of
[124:18] the things they do all have in common.
[124:20] >> Yeah.
[124:20] >> Is at some point in their hero's
[124:23] journey, they took a unusual set of
[124:26] actions for an unusual period of time.
[124:29] >> Yes. And so I think about that as a
[124:32] principle maybe that can be transferable
[124:34] is if you do want an unusual outcome
[124:36] whatever that means
[124:38] unusual behavior of some sort is the
[124:40] precursor. And actually at moments in my
[124:42] life where I hit fatigue or
[124:46] >> things are more challenging. I always
[124:49] remind myself of that these days. I
[124:50] always say this is probably like why
[124:53] most people don't get an unusual outcome
[124:56] because this was is the logical moment
[124:58] to like [ __ ] pack throw it in pack
[125:00] pack up the bags and go. And um when I
[125:04] look at some of my great mentors in the
[125:05] different fields that I'm in, that's
[125:06] exactly what they did. They just
[125:08] persisted for like an unusual amount of
[125:10] time.
[125:10] >> And I think persistence in your story is
[125:12] such a throughine.
[125:15] >> Yes. [snorts] I would say relentlessness
[125:17] is
[125:19] the most powerful element if you're
[125:21] trying to achieve your dreams because
[125:24] you're going to get knocked down again
[125:26] and again and you find yourself in the
[125:29] rain lost in the forest and you can't
[125:31] even see the trail. I always say that,
[125:33] you know, we didn't even know where we
[125:35] wanted to go,
[125:37] you know, and it's like we just kept
[125:40] doing it. It's like the painter who just
[125:41] goes, "I don't even know what I'm
[125:42] painting, but I'm just going to keep
[125:43] learning how these colors work, you
[125:46] know, just just keep going." Because
[125:47] it's an obsession and you can't really
[125:49] you can't really
[125:52] fake an obsession, right? If you if
[125:55] you're going to spend 10,000 hours
[125:57] throwing a basketball through a hoop,
[125:58] you're doing that because you love it.
[126:00] And there's work and there's discipline
[126:02] and there's times where you're going to
[126:03] feel that dip and that rise. But if
[126:05] you're really doing it, if you're even
[126:07] in the game, it's because you love it.
[126:10] Mhm.
[126:10] >> So if you can find something that you
[126:12] love, then you can start building that
[126:14] irrefutable proof of who you are because
[126:16] you can go, okay, well, I've logged a
[126:18] certain amount of time doing this thing
[126:19] I love.
[126:21] >> What is meaning to to you in your life?
[126:24] What is that? Is it responsibility? Is
[126:26] it something else?
[126:28] >> Well, there's that thing of that you you
[126:30] the more meaning you your your meaning
[126:32] is directly correlated to how much
[126:34] responsibility you take on. That that
[126:36] we've all heard a hundred times. But to
[126:39] me, it's it's I I've I've lived in a
[126:42] world where things are reduced to such
[126:45] um an incredibly basic level. It's like
[126:48] I've lived in the mud with a machete and
[126:50] if I want to eat, I get a fish. And so
[126:53] like the truth of the rain and rocks has
[126:55] become my sort of religion and the way
[126:58] that I connect with God through the very
[127:01] simple chemical physical elements of the
[127:03] universe.
[127:04] >> Do you believe in God?
[127:05] >> Absolutely.
[127:06] >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
[127:09] >> Have you always believed in God?
[127:11] >> Uh I think you know everybody goes
[127:13] through that period in their teens and
[127:15] 20s where you sort of go I I can believe
[127:17] in whatever I want or I could not
[127:18] believe in whatever I want and then I
[127:21] think as you as you mature I think a lot
[127:24] of people come back. It's also society
[127:27] it became very very uncool for a while
[127:29] to say that. You almost couldn't say it.
[127:32] You almost had to sneak your ass to
[127:34] church, you know. Um
[127:37] the if if the people that wake up and go
[127:40] all this is very unimpressive to me. I'm
[127:43] a walking miracle and I think there's no
[127:45] God and I'm unimpressed. It's like you
[127:47] you have a lot of delusions my friend.
[127:50] Um we are floating on a rock through
[127:52] space right now. Not a single person has
[127:54] an explanation of what we're doing here.
[127:56] All these incredible chemical processes
[127:58] are happening in the rivers in our veins
[128:00] and in the Amazon. When I dip my hands
[128:03] into the river and I drink from the
[128:05] river and you hold your arm up in the
[128:07] sun and you watch the vapor come out of
[128:09] your skin, the same moisture that you
[128:11] just drank and it joins the clouds,
[128:13] rains back on the jungle and becomes the
[128:15] river again. And you are part of the
[128:18] cycle.
[128:20] You just tend to believe in God
[128:26] because you feel like it's flowing. The
[128:28] river and the sky are flowing through
[128:29] you. And that's the nature version. I
[128:31] mean, it can also just be hugging your
[128:33] grandma.
[128:34] >> I wondered if your deeper understanding
[128:37] of science and evolution and all these
[128:40] things might have made you more atheist
[128:43] or agnostic.
[128:44] >> No, I think science is the language of
[128:46] God. I don't think that they're opposing
[128:48] forces.
[128:50] >> Do you do you believe in evolution and
[128:53] natural selection?
[128:54] >> It's not a matter of believing in
[128:55] evolution. We have we have we have
[128:57] animals in transitional forms. It's very
[128:59] clear through the fossil record that
[129:01] absolutely evolution is happening. I
[129:03] just think that everyone I don't I'm not
[129:04] sure where this black and white argument
[129:06] even came from. I don't think it makes
[129:07] sense to me then the wild is the church.
[129:10] And so when I see trees cut down I I
[129:13] feel it. I feel like people people are
[129:15] [sighs]
[129:16] if we have a role as humans and you said
[129:18] what's meaning if we have a role as
[129:20] humans on this planet it is to care for
[129:22] each other and the other things. Seems
[129:24] like that's the game right? There's
[129:25] drugs and addiction and and and and
[129:28] cheating and stealing and lying. There's
[129:29] all these there's all these pitfalls
[129:30] that you can fall into so easily. The
[129:33] game is rigged so that all these things
[129:35] feel really good, right? Real good while
[129:39] you're doing them. But you can literally
[129:42] lose the game permanently.
[129:45] You know, you do a little bit of meth
[129:46] because it felt good. All of a sudden,
[129:48] you're a methhead and all of a sudden
[129:49] you're dead. It's like you can very
[129:52] quickly get, you know, couple of drinks
[129:54] a day over the course of a couple of
[129:56] decades and you miss a couple of
[129:58] birthday parties and all of a sudden,
[129:59] you know, it's like you can you can very
[130:01] quickly in the wild it teaches you the
[130:04] that fidiousness,
[130:06] you know, if you don't check your boat
[130:08] every day before it rains, after it
[130:10] rains, make sure it didn't fill with
[130:11] water. It's like the line between
[130:13] survival and death is so small. And so I
[130:18] think that the meaning I found is that
[130:20] we are floating on a rock in space and
[130:23] there's only so many animals and people
[130:26] here and life is the antithesis to all
[130:28] of the frigid blackness that is the
[130:30] universe. And this is the only place
[130:31] that we know for certain that life
[130:34] exists, right? And we live at this
[130:37] moment in history when we're losing
[130:38] animals like elephants and polar bears
[130:40] and tigers and the rainforests and the
[130:43] ocean fisheries, the whales, and we
[130:45] still have a chance to save them. And if
[130:48] we save them, then our children have
[130:51] clean air, fresh water, beautiful
[130:53] places. The world continues to work as
[130:56] it always has. And so the relationship
[130:58] that we have to the people around us and
[131:00] to the creatures around us and to the
[131:02] environment around us is incredibly
[131:04] meaningful. There was a little meme I
[131:06] saw where it said, uh, if you're being
[131:08] if you're overwhelmed by the events of
[131:10] the world, go outside and look at the
[131:12] birds. You are as meaningless as a
[131:14] sparrow. And I went, man, as an
[131:16] ecologist, each animal plays a crucial
[131:19] role in the ecosystem. You know,
[131:21] hummingbirds are transporting pollen and
[131:23] the snakes are eating the rats and the
[131:25] the the the predators are regulating all
[131:27] of the prey animals and the trees are
[131:29] providing shade and the animals are
[131:30] engineering the the forest and the
[131:32] forest is engineering the animals. You
[131:34] are not the birds are not pointless.
[131:36] Whoever wrote that was stupid
[131:40] and the people reading it aren't
[131:41] pointless either is the point.
[131:45] Many humans think that we are a
[131:47] dominant, more important species than
[131:49] the snake that you just wrapped around
[131:51] my neck or the sparrow in the trees.
[131:56] Do you believe that's the case? Do you
[131:57] believe that humans are more important
[131:59] than
[132:00] >> If you were to remove humans from planet
[132:03] Earth, everything would get better in
[132:06] like days, just like in CO, like the
[132:08] national parks, the bears are frolicking
[132:10] on the trails and everything. Um, if you
[132:12] were to remove ants from planet Earth,
[132:14] nature would collapse, right? So, if you
[132:17] want to talk about ecological
[132:18] importance, we're not that important.
[132:20] That you'd have to think more
[132:21] holistically. We're just one of many
[132:23] different species.
[132:25] >> But we were able to, you know, rule the
[132:27] world because of our intellect.
[132:29] >> But we are the apex or the human brain
[132:31] is the most complex thing that we know
[132:32] of. And so, in that way, we are the
[132:36] stewards. We are the jungle keepers. we
[132:39] are the ones that are supposed to be
[132:40] caring for the rest of this. And so
[132:42] again, whether or not we can I mean,
[132:44] there's sort of this this people say
[132:46] that, you know, there's times are worse
[132:48] than they've ever been. And it's like I
[132:49] go I'm down in the jungle, right? So I'm
[132:51] down there. I miss out on a lot. I come
[132:53] out I come up here and people are people
[132:55] are I rate about some new news thing,
[132:59] right? What someone said to someone or
[133:01] what someone and I always come up and
[133:03] I'm like, man, civilizations rise and
[133:05] fall.
[133:06] the health of our oceans, the existence
[133:08] of our rainforests.
[133:10] We're dealing with a with a a a one-way
[133:13] door in history right now. You think
[133:15] World War II was big, the ecological
[133:18] collapse of our planet is pending, but
[133:21] it's not too late. Jane was right.
[133:23] There's still hope, but we're the last
[133:25] generation that's going to have it. And
[133:26] so, it's like, first of all, if you feel
[133:28] meaningless, go put your boots on and
[133:30] help.
[133:32] You know, if Churchill the day before
[133:34] D-Day was going, "Ah, it's probably not
[133:35] going to work." What would have
[133:37] happened? And it's like we are alive at
[133:39] the most exciting time in history. Not
[133:41] only is there a million things that need
[133:42] to be done, there's people all over the
[133:43] world that's doing it. So, one of the
[133:44] things I've started telling to young
[133:46] people, the advice that I can give is go
[133:48] find someone that you admire. Go find a
[133:51] master who's doing the work that you
[133:53] want to emulate and put 5 years in
[133:55] working for them. Don't go try to start
[133:57] your own project right away. Don't go
[133:59] try to start saving the world before you
[134:01] know how it works. Go find the guy
[134:03] that's tracking the snow leopards that's
[134:05] up in the mountains.
[134:07] Find him. Follow him. Learn from him. If
[134:10] it's a business, go find the person
[134:12] that's doing whatever it is you want to
[134:14] do. Learn from them. I've seen pe
[134:16] brilliant people with great business
[134:18] ideas that don't have the people skills.
[134:20] Go learn those people skills. Go work
[134:21] with the people that have those people.
[134:23] That easy common touch where they can
[134:24] just shake your hand and all of a sudden
[134:25] you feel like they're your best friend.
[134:27] my whole thing. I mean, us starting an
[134:29] organization that can protect the
[134:31] jungle, me and JJ could could could
[134:34] whack and machete and catch all the
[134:35] anacas we want. Mosen was taking
[134:37] pictures up and we had this team that
[134:39] was like doing, you know, the motor
[134:42] was going, but it wasn't starting. And
[134:45] then I mentioned the guy Stefan who was
[134:47] running teams at Apple. Now, this guy,
[134:49] this man knows how to run a spreadsheet.
[134:51] This man knows how to run teams of
[134:53] people. He knows how to organize things.
[134:55] So, he came in and wait, what are you
[134:56] trying to do? you're trying to do this,
[134:58] why don't you do it this way? You save a
[135:00] bunch of money by doing it this way. And
[135:01] he started running the teams. And so we
[135:02] needed we realized we we we needed
[135:04] things that we didn't even know existed.
[135:07] And so again, the relentless, the
[135:09] relentlessness, you you survived to
[135:11] another day. But for people going out,
[135:14] find those people because we learned
[135:16] things from these people that we meet. I
[135:18] mean, even from Dax, he came in and
[135:20] provided the funding. But also, this is
[135:22] a man that won capitalism. As a
[135:24] billionaire, he's someone that knows how
[135:25] to run a business. He said, "Okay, so
[135:27] this is how you're going to run your
[135:28] ranger program. Tell me how you're going
[135:29] to do this." Just as a friend and
[135:31] consultant, you end up learning so much
[135:33] from him.
[135:35] >> The very antithesis of what I saw when
[135:37] you played the video of the unconted
[135:40] tribe is some of the things going on in
[135:43] at the moment in California and Texas
[135:46] with humanoid robots and AI.
[135:48] >> Yeah.
[135:48] >> It's like the opposite.
[135:50] >> Yes.
[135:50] >> You know, Elon,
[135:51] >> we live in opposite worlds. Yeah. I I
[135:53] wondered if you had any thoughts about
[135:55] this world we're heading into where
[135:56] people might have microchips in their
[135:58] brain and we'll have humanoid robots and
[136:00] they're forecasting there'll be a
[136:01] billion um of these humanoid robots in
[136:03] the future. And AI is now so intelligent
[136:05] that
[136:06] >> they're saying within a year or two
[136:08] there'll be AIs that are smarter than
[136:10] every human that's ever lived. And even
[136:11] one example of the humanoid robot
[136:13] situation that blew my mind is when one
[136:15] of the robots learns something, all of
[136:17] the robots learn it.
[136:19] >> And obviously you were just talking up
[136:20] there about having to learn from
[136:21] mentors. with humanoid robots and the
[136:23] future that we seem to be huddling
[136:24] towards.
[136:26] >> Um, it seems like they might be the the
[136:29] apex species. I wondered if you've
[136:32] thought much about the technological
[136:34] acceleration of the earth and
[136:36] the risk of that and because it's the
[136:39] opposite of everything you're talking
[136:40] about in so many ways.
[136:42] >> It is and it isn't. I mean, I like I
[136:44] love living in modern times. I think
[136:46] that like heart surgery and and your
[136:49] iPad and the cameras. I think like I
[136:51] love so much of modern technology
[136:54] um flight. My god, how I love flight. We
[136:57] can go anywhere. Would have taken them
[136:59] eight months. Um this new obsession that
[137:02] everybody has it it not a lot of things
[137:06] get me biblical, but it makes me think
[137:07] of the the you know, thou shalt not with
[137:09] the false idols. Everyone is so obsessed
[137:12] about AI. Shut up. Go outside. touch
[137:15] some grass. Don't worry about the
[137:16] robots. We don't live in Minority Report
[137:18] yet. And it's like, if it's coming,
[137:20] first of all, we are the engineers of
[137:22] our reality, right? It's us. So, where
[137:25] are these robots going to come from?
[137:26] Unless we make them. And if they're so
[137:29] smart, well, then get on your knees and
[137:31] pray to them. You know, it's like do
[137:32] whatever. But I I think that as as as
[137:36] more and more people like
[137:38] rebel against the AI slop they see in
[137:41] their feeds, as more and more people
[137:44] appreciate real human art and what it
[137:47] takes a person to stare at a wall with a
[137:50] with some paint and create something
[137:52] that could move you to tears. I think
[137:54] that we're going through a period of
[137:56] delirious adolescence with a new
[137:58] technology. Just like at Y2K, everyone
[138:00] was like, "Everything's going to shut
[138:01] down and nothing's going to work." And
[138:02] it's like, "Okay, great. I'll be on a
[138:05] hike. The world's going to continue to
[138:07] work." And, you know, they've been
[138:10] saying we're going to have flying cars
[138:11] for how many years? We still don't have
[138:13] them. Everyone's like, "We should go
[138:14] colonize Mars." Like, great.
[138:17] [ __ ] Mars, though. Yeah. Let's fix this
[138:20] planet. Prove that we're capable of
[138:22] managing. It's like the kid going, "I
[138:23] want to take over the company." And the
[138:25] father going, "Get your room clean." I
[138:28] think what you do might be hugely
[138:29] benefited by everything that's going on
[138:31] with technology and AI in part because
[138:34] >> I think people are people's appreciation
[138:37] for community, for nature, for things
[138:39] that are irreplaceably human is only
[138:41] going to increase. Yeah,
[138:42] >> I have, you know, I have a couple of
[138:44] like wild hypotheses and one of them is
[138:47] that people are going to want to in a
[138:48] world where we no longer need to gather
[138:50] in cities for um collective labor, which
[138:53] is basically why cities exist in large
[138:55] part,
[138:55] >> they will then want to be out in nature.
[138:58] Yeah.
[138:58] >> Because our Maslovian need of being out
[139:00] in the trees and the oil we get and the
[139:01] mental health benefits are going to
[139:03] remain the same even if there is robots.
[139:05] And actually, if I don't need to be in a
[139:06] city, where would I rather be?
[139:09] >> In the beautiful nature.
[139:10] >> In the beautiful nature. I was saying to
[139:11] my friends the other day, I think people
[139:12] are going to start buying up farmland
[139:14] and natural places because
[139:17] >> you notice that when everyone sort of
[139:19] makes it and gets rich enough that they
[139:21] can do what they want, they go get a
[139:22] house in the country.
[139:23] >> Exactly.
[139:23] >> Where they can raise their kids, breathe
[139:25] some air, not just traffic exhaust. And
[139:28] but what I'm what I'm not understanding
[139:30] though is why everyone's so worried
[139:32] about it. I mean, everyone's acting like
[139:34] it's the beginning of Terminator 2,
[139:36] except no one's catching on, right? and
[139:39] and but and but but again if you listen
[139:41] to what's the guy's name who runs
[139:43] Nvidia?
[139:44] >> Um Jensen Juan.
[139:45] >> Yes. His I I listened to him on on Joe
[139:48] Rogan. It was amazing cuz Rogan has the
[139:50] ability like most like like which is why
[139:52] he's so good at it. He asked the
[139:54] questions we all want to ask. And he was
[139:55] like when is AI going to take over? And
[139:58] Jensen was like listen um AI is going to
[140:00] optimize how effective humans can be at
[140:02] their jobs. Right? Like he was like I
[140:04] think he said with radiologists he goes
[140:06] we thought we'd not need any more
[140:07] radiologists. He's like it it made
[140:09] radiologists better at their jobs.
[140:11] >> And it's like I think that the hysteria
[140:13] of like robots taking well that's good.
[140:15] Let's use some robots to deliver
[140:17] packages like great. But I don't think
[140:19] that this this this this
[140:21] anticipatory doom that everyone's
[140:24] feeling on these fallen times of
[140:26] everything's about to change again.
[140:28] Really like literally actually guys go
[140:30] touch the grass. Like it's I'm serious.
[140:32] It's like it's not I come back from the
[140:35] jungle where I'm fighting to save the
[140:36] trees that make the air that these
[140:38] people are breathing and I'm I'm a
[140:41] little bit a little bit shocked by the
[140:43] the amount of hysteria that I'm seeing
[140:45] and like I'm down there getting hunted
[140:47] by narot traffickers and and and and
[140:50] running from the flames and these people
[140:51] are like you won't believe what I saw on
[140:53] the news today and I'm like I got it I'm
[140:57] going back.
[140:57] >> Do you consume this stuff? Are you on
[140:59] social media?
[141:00] >> No. Do you have apps and social media
[141:02] apps on your phone?
[141:04] >> It's funny. I got into a fight. Somebody
[141:05] I'm sure that we'll get this reaction
[141:07] for this conversation, but people kind
[141:08] of get mad at me about this where I go,
[141:10] I don't I don't want to that sort of
[141:12] civilizations rise and fall thing. A lot
[141:14] of people get very offended because
[141:15] they're very invested in the news cycle
[141:18] and and they're very hysterical and they
[141:20] almost want to hold on to their
[141:21] hysterics, right? And to me, it's very
[141:23] important. I was just sitting at a table
[141:25] with people and they said, you know, the
[141:26] world's going to [ __ ] It's never been
[141:27] worse. First of all, live at the most
[141:30] peaceful time in history. There's better
[141:32] technology. We can save your life. We
[141:34] can almost, you know, cure so many
[141:36] different diseases. We've never We've
[141:38] have this expanding compassion where our
[141:40] species has learned to be more
[141:43] compassionate that differences don't
[141:45] make us less, right? And now we're even
[141:47] expanding that to understand like, oh
[141:48] wait, the other creatures on this planet
[141:50] matter, too. We've never been more
[141:52] dedicated to compassion. I mean, I was
[141:55] just at a conservation conference and I
[141:57] was meeting people who are making period
[141:58] pads for girls in Africa who don't have
[142:01] access to them. I know people who are
[142:02] trying to save cheetahs. I I'm seeing
[142:04] people doing amazing work all over the
[142:06] news. And you know what the news is
[142:08] reporting?
[142:10] There was, you know, that there's an
[142:11] assassination in the Philippines. We're
[142:13] tribal. We're supposed to only know
[142:14] what's going on in our village. Not doom
[142:17] scrolling through a thousand tragedies a
[142:19] day. That's of course it's going to send
[142:20] your brain on fire. So, I've I have none
[142:23] of that. I go on to Instagram. I've
[142:24] curated it so that it's my feed. I see
[142:27] conservationists rescuing elephants. I
[142:29] see a couple of artists that I really
[142:31] like. I have a couple like just all
[142:33] really cool stuff. I never go to that
[142:35] like that page that just shows you the
[142:36] internet. I never do that. Just don't do
[142:38] it. Just don't do it. It's bad for you.
[142:41] It's really really bad for you. I watch
[142:42] people doing it's scary.
[142:45] >> When I did go to the Amazon, I went with
[142:46] my now fiance
[142:48] >> and she [clears throat]
[142:49] wanted to do some plant medicine. Yes.
[142:54] >> Um, as I said to you before we started
[142:55] recording, I couldn't do it because
[142:56] apparently I hadn't followed the diet
[142:57] regime properly. Yeah.
[142:58] >> But, um, I know that you did Iawaska.
[143:00] And for anyone that doesn't know, IA is
[143:02] a powerful psychoactive brew from the
[143:04] Amazon used traditionally by indigenous
[143:07] >> cultures.
[143:09] How did your experience with Iaska
[143:11] change you?
[143:12] What happened? And how did it change
[143:14] you?
[143:14] >> Oh god. Again, I'm I don't know why I'm
[143:16] I'm very cuz I'm I'm just I'm just in a
[143:18] mood today. Um, there's no filter. I
[143:20] don't I don't know. This is one of the
[143:21] chapters I didn't know if I should put
[143:23] in the book cuz I go take people through
[143:25] the whole thing because the shaman that
[143:27] we knew was the old shaman. It was JJ's
[143:31] JJ's old father's best friend. And so he
[143:33] he's old guy. He was been mixing Iawaska
[143:36] in the forest for decades and learned
[143:38] from the the ancient guys.
[143:42] Now the first time I did it, it wasn't
[143:45] such a big deal. I saw some geometric
[143:47] patterns. I threw up. I had a
[143:48] conversation with a tree. It was okay.
[143:52] The problem is the old shaman at 80some
[143:56] fell asleep while he was boiling the
[143:58] Iwasa
[144:00] and it became more intense in its
[144:03] potency. And so when we drank the normal
[144:06] dosage, we were receiving a mega dose.
[144:10] And I went on a trip that I would never
[144:12] ever ask to go on. I'm talking about the
[144:15] creation of the universe, the big bang.
[144:17] I mean, I went through worlds. Like for
[144:18] a while I was shapeless in outer space
[144:21] between solar systems. I mean it was
[144:22] like [gasps]
[144:25] it was horrifying.
[144:27] And when we woke up the shaman was gone.
[144:30] You know people drink Iwaska and they go
[144:31] I'm going to go on a journey. I'm going
[144:33] to focus on this. I want to I have my
[144:35] intentions over here and I want to
[144:39] this was this was just wormholes and
[144:41] explosions and and and just just
[144:43] craziness. And in the morning, we found
[144:45] the shaman and he was laying in a stream
[144:47] naked like the way they find ET at the
[144:49] end of the movie. And uh we said, "What
[144:51] the hell happened?" And he said, "I
[144:52] overboiled the Iawaska." And he said,
[144:54] "By the way, I retire." And he retired
[144:57] as shaman for a whole week.
[145:01] But but like that was my experience was
[145:03] that it was so intense that I was just
[145:04] happy to have physical form again. I
[145:06] feel I felt like I died and came back.
[145:09] It is very very powerful.
[145:10] >> You said in the book I felt changed.
[145:13] I felt changed in the sense that I had
[145:15] never, you know, I'd come close to dying
[145:18] a bunch of times. I'd come, but I mean
[145:20] to to be removed and, you know, if you
[145:22] go for surgery, they put you out and
[145:23] it's black and then you come back. This
[145:26] was I mean, who the hell even knew? It's
[145:28] like it's like opening. It's like you've
[145:32] lived in a gigantic mansion with 3,000
[145:35] rooms your entire life, but you've only
[145:37] ever lived in like one.
[145:39] And then you take this stuff and all of
[145:41] a sudden you go, "Whoa, there's so many
[145:43] rooms and you have access to them and
[145:46] the doors are all open and you're being
[145:48] sucked through all of them at once." And
[145:49] so it was like I mean at one point I was
[145:51] I mean you the jungle vibrates through
[145:53] you. I took the form of different
[145:55] animals. I mean it was it was insanity.
[145:57] I don't I wouldn't recommend it to
[145:58] anybody.
[145:58] >> What do the local people think it is as
[146:01] a compound as a psychoactive? What do
[146:03] they think is happening? Do they think
[146:04] it's a religious experience?
[146:05] >> Absolutely. It's most of them believe
[146:07] that this is the gift of the gods to
[146:11] humans and it is link between the spirit
[146:13] world and our world. And they say that
[146:17] the Amazon was formed when the anaconda
[146:21] god slipped out of the mer the milky way
[146:23] and carved the rivers, right? And if you
[146:27] take the 40,000 species of trees in the
[146:29] Amazon and did trial and error to try
[146:32] and figure out which ones would interact
[146:34] with each other, it doesn't really make
[146:36] sense that ancient peoples came to this
[146:37] by accident.
[146:39] And so the shamans say that the gods
[146:43] gave this to humans so that we could
[146:45] interact with the other side.
[146:48] What is jungle keepers? We've you've
[146:51] used the word several times now and you
[146:53] know it's word on the front of your new
[146:54] book and I see it's written there on
[146:56] your chest. But for anyone that doesn't
[146:57] know what Jungle Keepers is, what the
[146:59] mission of it is, how they might be able
[147:01] to get involved and help, what is it?
[147:03] >> Jungle Keepers is
[147:05] the method we developed to find a way to
[147:09] save the Amazon. And what we did was
[147:11] this. We worked with the local people.
[147:13] We spent years understanding what the
[147:15] reality was on the ground. Jungle
[147:18] Keepers is the system with which we
[147:20] actually are saving the Amazon
[147:21] rainforest. It's how we employ the
[147:24] loggers and gold miners as conservation
[147:26] rangers. But it's the way that we do
[147:28] that. What we've done usually
[147:30] conservation is done through grant
[147:32] writing and government deals. We've done
[147:34] this using modern technology using
[147:37] social media for good. We've used I mean
[147:39] it was through Instagram that we got our
[147:40] first big funer. It was through
[147:43] Instagram and podcasts that we've
[147:45] reached a lot of our smaller funders.
[147:46] And today,
[147:48] Jungle Keepers is the most direct way
[147:51] for people around the world to help the
[147:53] indigenous people protect the Amazon.
[147:56] And what that means is we have a donor
[147:58] program. People go to junglekeepers.org
[148:00] and whether it's for 5, 10, 100, some
[148:03] people do $1,000 a month. They can
[148:05] directly protect the land and provide
[148:09] jobs for the local people. And it's
[148:12] saving more animal heartbeats and
[148:13] endangered species and those entire
[148:15] uncontacted tribes all because people
[148:18] all over the world care and they're
[148:19] willing to part with the price of a
[148:22] Starbucks coffee once a month.
[148:26] >> So if people have been inspired by this
[148:27] conversation Yes.
[148:28] >> Um
[148:29] >> they can go to junglekeepers.org and on
[148:31] the website I'm on there now.
[148:32] >> Yeah.
[148:33] >> That you can give once um in a small
[148:35] donation or you can give monthly.
[148:37] anything from, as you said, the price of
[148:39] a coffee up to bigger donations if
[148:41] you're able to. And um there's some
[148:44] superb information and resources and
[148:46] videos on the website that explains more
[148:48] about the work being done. I'm certainly
[148:50] going to sign up to a monthly
[148:52] subscription.
[148:53] >> Thank you, John Keeper. [laughter]
[148:55] >> No, it means a lot because it's the
[148:56] shopping cart principle. It's like if
[148:58] none of us do it, it won't work. If all
[149:00] of us do it, it will work.
[149:01] >> We'll make history.
[149:03] >> Well, I'm going to sign up right now. Um
[149:05] Amazing.
[149:06] >> Definitely. and I'll I'll give my
[149:07] monthly donation and I implore anyone
[149:09] else that can has the means to to also
[149:10] do it because it's such an you know it's
[149:12] such a such an important beautiful part
[149:16] of the world for all the reasons we've
[149:17] discussed um in a way that I think is
[149:19] often unappreciated and not um uh not
[149:22] thought about enough because in part
[149:24] these messages don't get out there and
[149:26] most people don't realize that the
[149:27] oxygen we breathe comes from this part
[149:30] of the world and many of the medicines
[149:32] we've discovered and the research that
[149:33] we continue to do originates from this
[149:35] part of the world. I mean, there's so
[149:36] many I wanted to talk to you about this.
[149:38] There's so many medicines and um sort of
[149:41] medical research taking place in in this
[149:44] ecosystem that is incredible.
[149:47] Incredible. And I was I hearing I heard
[149:50] you talk about how one day you got an
[149:51] infection, antibiotics couldn't touch
[149:53] >> and someone took you into the jungle,
[149:55] gave you some sap from a tree bark and
[149:58] it cured the infection.
[149:59] >> Yeah. You see this where it looks like
[150:01] somebody put a cigar out on my arm right
[150:03] there? Little smooth bit. That was a
[150:05] very rare disease. I was living in a mud
[150:07] hut in India trying to track tigers.
[150:09] There's only 3,000 tigers left. Um
[150:12] although now it's gone up to five.
[150:14] Tigers are coming back. So another
[150:15] success story. But I was living in a mud
[150:17] hut in India trying to track tigers and
[150:18] I got this disease called tuleria.
[150:21] And it's so rare that when I got it, I
[150:23] brought it back to New York, went to the
[150:25] infectious disease doctor. when he
[150:27] figured out what it was and I'd been in
[150:29] bed for like a month with this horrible
[150:30] infection in my arm, this deep pocket of
[150:33] pus and and I was on antibiotics and he
[150:36] went, "This is so rare." He goes, "Do
[150:38] you mind if I call in my students, my
[150:40] fellows?" He goes, he goes, "Guys,
[150:41] you're never going to see this again.
[150:42] It's a disease that's tickornne through
[150:45] rabbits and somehow gets into people and
[150:47] manifests with an infection on the right
[150:49] elbow." He goes, "This is one of the
[150:52] rarest ones you're going to see." He
[150:53] goes, "This is rare. They put me on
[150:55] double antibiotics. cuz I had already
[150:56] had a MRSA infection. They were like,
[150:57] "Look, we got to really kill this
[150:59] thing." And it was 2012 and my parents
[151:01] said, "Whatever you do, do not go back
[151:03] to the jungle with an infection cuz the
[151:05] jungle's just going to make it worse."
[151:07] And of course, I went to the jungle. We
[151:08] had stuff to do. We our station was in
[151:10] danger of dying, so I had to go back
[151:12] with JJ and fix it up. And I showed up
[151:14] and he looked at my go, "Why is your arm
[151:15] taped up?" And I said, "Well, I have
[151:16] this terrible infection." I said, "I've
[151:18] been in bed for two months." I said, "I
[151:19] have no energy. I'm on all these
[151:21] antibiotics." And he looked at me, he
[151:22] went, "This is okay." Hey. And he goes,
[151:24] "No, no, come with me." We walked out.
[151:26] He marches out into the jungle, hits
[151:27] this hits the tree with the machete,
[151:29] collects the white sap,
[151:31] rubs it over this, and now this these
[151:33] saps have like a latex quality, and when
[151:36] you heat them, they they they they form
[151:38] almost like a rubber. So, it formed a
[151:40] rubber rubber cap over the infection.
[151:42] Now, if you had pushed on it before, pus
[151:43] would leak out. He just went like this
[151:45] until it formed a seal. And then he put
[151:49] a little bit into a concoction of leaf
[151:52] juice that he made, made me drink that.
[151:53] Either way, next day I woke up and the
[151:56] infection was denatured. It was still a
[152:00] wound, but it was no longer infected.
[152:02] Killed the infection in one night. The
[152:04] antibiotics hadn't been able to kill for
[152:05] two months. [sighs]
[152:08] And so stuff like that where he not only
[152:10] knew what to do, he knew where to find
[152:12] it. Recently when I was stung by a
[152:14] stingray and I was in agonizing pain,
[152:17] two of my friends collected bark, which
[152:19] was JJ's nephew and brother. It's good
[152:20] to be part of an indigenous family. Um,
[152:23] they connect collected two different
[152:25] kinds of bark. They boiled it into a pus
[152:27] and they sucked the venom out of my out
[152:29] of my foot with plant medicine.
[152:33] It's incredible. And these are
[152:35] technologies we don't have. And by the
[152:36] way, yeah, we're losing physical
[152:38] animals. We don't want to lose species,
[152:39] but we're also losing indigenous
[152:42] cultures. We're losing dialects and and
[152:44] and and anthropologists like WDE Davis
[152:48] will say that, you know, each language,
[152:50] each each culture is a different
[152:52] manifest. They said he was he has a
[152:53] beautiful quote where he said other
[152:54] cultures are not failed attempts at
[152:56] being you. You know, it's it's each of
[152:59] these is a different manifestation of
[153:00] the human
[153:02] different blossoms on the same vine. and
[153:05] uh we're losing languages because what
[153:07] happens is roads come in to these
[153:10] communities they all learn to speak
[153:12] Spanish let's say so they stop speaking
[153:16] you know and the same thing in India
[153:17] where you guys have seen this happening
[153:19] where like the kids in the village might
[153:20] speak a really local language and then
[153:22] all of a sudden everybody wants to go to
[153:23] the big city everybody has the internet
[153:26] and Instagram and Tik Tok and wants to
[153:27] make a little more money and they go and
[153:29] these we're losing languages and these
[153:31] each of these languages is a different
[153:33] way of expressing ourselves
[153:35] And so this there's just this very
[153:37] interesting shift happening in the world
[153:38] right now where there's a lot of
[153:40] beautiful things that can still be
[153:41] saved. And that's why it's like we're at
[153:43] this amazing time where there's there's
[153:45] still the old amazing things and we
[153:47] still have all this amazing new
[153:48] technology flooding in and more
[153:50] knowledge at our fingertips than ever
[153:52] before. And so the feeling of apathy I
[153:54] don't get. I don't understand how
[153:56] everybody isn't stoked.
[153:59] >> I see you've got a a wedding ring on.
[154:02] >> Oh, this. Yes. I um you know I know
[154:06] you're recently married
[154:08] >> like Yes. Two weeks ago.
[154:10] >> Two weeks ago. One would ask how it's
[154:12] possible for someone that spends so long
[154:14] living in the jungle to hold down a
[154:17] successful romantic relationship.
[154:19] >> Yeah. Um, I think that the same thing
[154:23] happened with this that happened with
[154:26] the career where I said, I think right
[154:27] around the time where I gave up, I said
[154:30] it's never going to happen cuz what girl
[154:31] I said, what girl could keep up with
[154:34] repeated seven months in the jungle and
[154:37] and um all the bot flies and infections
[154:40] and anacondas and then forget now that
[154:42] we're being hunted by the narot
[154:43] traffickers and all this stuff. Not
[154:46] nobody nobody fit into the life. And
[154:48] then actually it was on a I was giving a
[154:52] talk about the Amazon
[154:55] uh in California actually over a year
[154:57] ago and I met this girl and instantly we
[155:01] had a connection and and and it was the
[155:03] same thing. It was like we we we kind of
[155:05] had both reached that same point where
[155:06] we both gone yeah it's never going to
[155:08] work because of our different
[155:09] lifestyles. Um
[155:12] and then and then it just and then it
[155:14] just occurred. You just when you know,
[155:15] you know. We got to know each other and
[155:17] then the only way I could know if she
[155:18] was really the one was to take her
[155:21] catching. Uh we went crocodile catching
[155:23] for cayman catching. First night that
[155:25] she arrived, she came up the river on
[155:26] the boat and we went out and we caught a
[155:29] crocodile, held it together. I got to
[155:31] show her the nictating membrane and the
[155:32] the spikes coming out of it and it was
[155:34] this beautiful smooth fronted cayman.
[155:36] And then as we were floating down the
[155:38] river up to our necks in the black water
[155:40] with the Milky Way above us and we're
[155:42] just sort of holding hands and I just
[155:43] looked over and I was like, "Oh, I think
[155:45] this is it." And then I proposed to her
[155:47] in the treehouse. So on top of the top
[155:50] of the jungle canopy with all the mist
[155:52] and all the animals singing. Um but it
[155:55] that I'm you know that makes me say I'm
[155:57] so I'm so glad that I waited. You know,
[156:00] it's like you have to wait until the
[156:01] time where it makes sense on that thing,
[156:03] you know. And I think you probably feel
[156:05] the same where um probably took you a
[156:08] while to find the right person.
[156:10] >> Mhm.
[156:11] And she comes on these expeditions with
[156:13] you now. Or
[156:15] >> she's way more than that, man. I mean,
[156:17] look, there's like I said, there's a lot
[156:18] of things I'm not good at. Um the
[156:20] planes, trains, automobiles, the human
[156:22] world, the Ubers, the fact you have to
[156:23] push a button, the the the the
[156:25] apparently, like I learned come on my
[156:27] way to you, the the Tesla handles work
[156:29] differently. um she knows all that and
[156:32] so she's very good at keeping me
[156:34] organized and when we go to the jungle
[156:36] she's very good at being like hey don't
[156:37] forget to thank those donors hey don't
[156:40] forget you think this is normal it is
[156:42] not normal teach people about those
[156:44] those leaf cutter ants and it's like
[156:45] she's really good at you know so she's
[156:47] totally integrated loves being in the
[156:49] jungle it it's just incredible it's the
[156:51] it's the most it's the most wonderful
[156:52] part of the journey so far
[156:54] >> I'd love to actually um you just
[156:55] mentioned leaf cutter ants and I did
[156:56] watch your video on Instagram about the
[156:57] leaf cutter ants and that I think that
[156:59] was the moment I you before we started
[157:01] recording that I I've really wanted to
[157:02] go and do some sort of survival
[157:04] >> um expedition in the jungle.
[157:05] >> I could make this happen for you.
[157:07] >> I think you I think you might be the
[157:08] guy. [laughter]
[157:09] >> But uh I did take a moment of pause when
[157:12] I watched this video.
[157:15] >> One of the worst episodes yet of why you
[157:16] think you want my job, but definitely
[157:18] don't really. Right now, my tent is
[157:21] being dismantled by leaf cutter ants.
[157:23] It's about 2:00 a.m. and I've been
[157:24] trying to sleep and there's about 10
[157:26] million leaf cutter ants outside of this
[157:28] tent. And all they are doing is cutting
[157:31] leafiz holes out of my tent. They are
[157:34] carrying away the nylon into the night.
[157:36] And because the leaf cutter ants are
[157:38] working to dismantle every single thing
[157:40] that I own, they're opening up holes big
[157:42] enough for me to put my fist through,
[157:44] which means everything else in the
[157:45] Amazon is coming into my tent. And
[157:48] because of that, I keep turning on the
[157:49] lights. I just woke up because there's a
[157:51] leaf cutter ant using its pinser jaws to
[157:54] bite my ear to try and carry off a
[157:55] piece. And inside this tent right now
[157:57] are ants and termites and mosquitoes,
[158:00] some sort of centipede, hoppers, moths,
[158:03] and some insects that I can't even
[158:04] identify. This is one of those times
[158:06] where, you know, it's four more hours
[158:08] until morning. If you get out of the
[158:10] tent, you're going to get destroyed by
[158:11] mosquitoes. It's raining outside. You're
[158:13] going to get wet. This is what camping
[158:14] in the wild is. Sometimes you put your
[158:16] tent in the wrong place, and the leaf
[158:18] cutter ants and the gods of the jungle
[158:19] decide it's going to be the worst night
[158:21] ever. All I can do is try and get some
[158:23] sleep and I wake up every few seconds to
[158:25] try and slap something off my face or
[158:27] something flies up my nose. This is one
[158:28] of those nightmare nights, man.
[158:33] >> I didn't think of ants as being the
[158:34] problem,
[158:36] [clears throat] the thing that might
[158:37] derail my journey to the jungle. But
[158:41] there's a lot of scary things in the
[158:42] jungle.
[158:44] >> That quote you read about life being a
[158:46] moment of stasis among the death amongst
[158:48] the the churning death march of the
[158:50] jungle. Everything you see in the jungle
[158:52] is going to be eaten at some point.
[158:54] Every jaguar, every butterfly, every
[158:56] leaf. If the Amazon didn't have fungal
[158:58] mcelium growing through everything, it
[159:00] would bury itself in leaves and cease to
[159:02] exist. It is a recycling machine. And
[159:04] so, yes, every time a baby is born, they
[159:07] try to survive. You look at that baby
[159:08] snake. That baby snake might come out of
[159:11] its egg. Now, that's a African ball
[159:13] python, but you say like a baby boa
[159:14] constrictor comes out of its mother,
[159:16] starts crawling around the jungle, and
[159:17] it might just get eaten by a bird. done.
[159:21] And this is sort of back to what you're
[159:22] saying about when should people give up
[159:23] on their dreams. It's like look some
[159:25] sometimes you get eaten by a bird right
[159:26] out of the hatch. Like but in the jungle
[159:30] the ants, the mosquitoes,
[159:33] the fungus, the infections, it's all
[159:36] trying to take you down. You are
[159:38] calories. The leaves, which what which
[159:41] you don't realize, the jungle is an
[159:42] energy economy, right? Those trees are
[159:44] stretching up to 160 ft because they're
[159:46] trying to reach above the other trees to
[159:49] get to the light because they want the
[159:51] sunlight. That tropical sunlight is what
[159:53] gives them the energy to grow those big
[159:55] trunks. And then all the other epithetic
[159:57] plants, the orchids and the lychans and
[159:59] the and and the pitcher plants, those
[160:01] are all growing on the branches. And
[160:03] then down there in the shadows, there's
[160:05] trees waiting that have no access to
[160:07] light. Less than 3% of the sunlight in
[160:08] the rainforest hits the ground. And
[160:10] they're waiting beneath these titans
[160:13] and they're waiting for a little bit of
[160:14] sunlight. And once a day a little bit of
[160:16] sunlight comes by and they grow that
[160:17] much. They take them and then when one
[160:19] big tree falls over and all of a sudden
[160:20] you have this rush of sunlight capital,
[160:23] all these trees shoot up and now those
[160:26] trees shoot up and what's happening? The
[160:27] leaf cutter ants are taking their little
[160:29] bits of those leaves that have heavy
[160:31] chemical compounds to stop the leaf
[160:32] cutter ants from doing this. But they
[160:34] take it and they bring it underground
[160:36] and they farm it. They're one of the
[160:37] only other species that farms. They farm
[160:39] fungus off of the leaves that they eat.
[160:42] But the entire thing is this vast
[160:44] interconnected matrix of competition for
[160:47] sunlight energy. You carry so much our
[160:51] skin. We are these gods of energy. We're
[160:54] we're a large animal walking through the
[160:56] forest. So the mosquitoes and the
[160:58] leeches and and the jaguar and the like
[161:02] all those things are like man if you
[161:04] died you realize how many animals you'd
[161:05] make happy. like the jungle. The jungle
[161:08] is saying, "Come here. Come to me. I'll
[161:10] I'll recycle you."
[161:12] >> Are you scared of anything?
[161:14] >> I'm scared that people won't wake up
[161:16] quick enough to save the systems that
[161:18] keep us alive. But I also am an optimist
[161:22] and I believe that we're at this point
[161:23] where people feel very lost and things
[161:26] look really dire and then it pulls back,
[161:29] you You know, and I I'm a big believer
[161:30] in I mean, tigers went from a 100,000
[161:33] tigers in 1900 down to just like 3,000
[161:36] tigers now. We're we're coming back up.
[161:37] We're up around five or 6,000 tigers.
[161:39] Humpback whales before before whaling,
[161:42] you think you like 130,000 humpback
[161:44] whales. They went down as low as a
[161:46] thousand humpback whales. We almost lost
[161:48] humpback whales. Then they banned whales
[161:50] whaling and now humpback whales are back
[161:53] to almost pre-whaling numbers. Same
[161:55] thing goes for bald eagles. There's been
[161:57] so many conservation success. We had a
[161:59] hole in the ozone layer. Everybody
[162:00] forgets this. We had a hole in the in
[162:02] the only thing that protects us from
[162:04] being incinerated by the sun. And we
[162:06] found a way to fix it.
[162:09] So, I'm an optimist. I'm not I'm not
[162:11] scared. And this is my this is my best
[162:14] confutation to the darkness. This is my
[162:15] best way of saying look that that title
[162:18] when they told me to I didn't come up
[162:19] with the subtitle, the what it takes,
[162:21] what does it say? What it takes to
[162:22] change the world. I didn't come up with
[162:24] that, but I thought it was too hefty. I
[162:25] didn't want it. I felt uncomfortable.
[162:28] Um,
[162:30] but I do think that that the idea that
[162:33] that we can change the fate of things is
[162:37] an important thing to remember in these
[162:40] times.
[162:41] >> Jungle Keeper, what it takes to change
[162:43] the world. This book is about the
[162:45] profound power of saying yes. Yes to
[162:47] one's calling. Yes to sticking with your
[162:49] dream when it comes at a high cost. And
[162:51] yes to taking a stand to save what might
[162:53] otherwise be gone in a generation. It's
[162:55] a story of vocation, connectedness, and
[162:58] hope.
[162:59] What a brilliant, beautiful, rare book.
[163:02] I'm going to link it below for anyone
[163:04] that wants to continue this conversation
[163:05] and wants to learn more and go deeper.
[163:07] Um, you're a brilliant storyteller.
[163:09] >> Thank you.
[163:10] >> It's one of your great skills. I don't
[163:11] know where you learned it cuz I I don't
[163:12] think they do classes for storytelling
[163:14] in in the Amazon, but it's certainly one
[163:16] of your great skills and it's a very
[163:18] important skill to wield when you've got
[163:19] a message you need the world to hear.
[163:21] >> It's a very important story. I think I
[163:23] learned it from Tolken and from Arthur
[163:25] Conand Doyle and from Jane Goodall. I
[163:27] mean, those were the people my parents
[163:28] read to me growing up. We have a closing
[163:31] tradition, Paul, where the last guest
[163:33] leaves a question for the next, not
[163:34] knowing who they're leaving it for. And
[163:36] the question left for you is, if you
[163:38] only had
[163:42] three years left to live,
[163:46] >> what would you regret not doing? And are
[163:49] you working on that now? If no, why not?
[163:55] >> If I had three years left to live,
[163:59] I would very much regret
[164:01] not finishing the mission that I
[164:02] started. And so
[164:06] whether we like it or not, we're going
[164:08] to we're either going to win and save it
[164:10] or we're going to lose. 3 years
[164:13] would be like just barely able to see
[164:15] it. I would regret so much coming so far
[164:20] and then not coming to fruition because
[164:24] you mentioned before the idea of a wave
[164:26] and it's like so much has happened and
[164:28] we have come to this place where so much
[164:30] is possible but we're still in the
[164:32] barrel and we're not done yet. So if I
[164:35] had three years left to go, I know that
[164:38] all those heartbeats are depending on me
[164:41] and I would that's that would be my
[164:42] answer.
[164:44] >> Paul, thank you. It's um incredible work
[164:46] you're doing and I'm so glad that
[164:47] there's people in the world like you
[164:49] that are doing this and um if
[164:51] [clears throat] anyone has been inspired
[164:53] by your conversation, I really do highly
[164:54] recommend you go and make a donation or
[164:56] pledge support in some way over on the
[164:58] Jungle Keeper website because um not all
[165:00] of us have the means or the ability to
[165:03] go out and do what you're doing on the
[165:05] front line of this issue. But um as you
[165:08] say, [clears throat] it makes a huge
[165:09] amount of difference even people
[165:10] donating small amounts of money because
[165:12] it compounds into something much more
[165:14] bigger and and those small gestures can
[165:16] save all the heartbeats that you're
[165:17] describing.
[165:19] >> Thank God for it. Thank you.
[165:20] >> Thank you. We're done. Thank you. Thank
[165:22] you.
[165:22] >> Very soon you will be in the ice bath
[165:24] with me.
[165:25] >> But I don't like the cold.
[165:27] >> That's cool.
[165:30] >> Oh gosh.
[165:31] >> Stay with your breath.
[165:33] >> Whoff has defied logic time and time
[165:35] again. He's able to withstand extreme
[165:38] cold
[165:38] >> and even ran to the top of Everest in
[165:40] his underwear.
