U.S. Conceals Non-Human Technology as Bipartisan Pressure Builds

两党施压加剧，美国隐瞒非人类技术 一项长达数十年的非人类飞行器回收秘密遗留项目构成了战略突袭风险，除非总统正式予以公开披露。 在本次讨论中，量子物理学家 Hal Puthoff 博士和电影制片人 Dan Farah 详细阐释了自 1947 年罗斯威尔坠毁事件以来，美国情报与军方机构如何秘密掩盖非人类智能、飞行器回收及生物遗骸。他们探讨了 UAP 如何与核设施相互作用、利用局域曲率泡操纵时空，并推动了一场隐秘的国际技术竞赛。此外，他们还讨论了国会两党推动全面公开的努力、解密遗留档案的行政指令，以及 CIA 历史上探索遥视和量子意识的“星门计划”（Project Stargate）等项目。 美国政府对不明空中现象（UAP）长达80年的保密起源于冷战及1947年罗斯韦尔事件，其初衷是防止战后公众恐慌，并避免中苏等对手在非人类科技逆向工程竞赛中抢占先机。 (15:25) 内部知情人士证实，一个横跨情报机构、军方和国防承包商的“遗留计划”（Legacy Program）在脱离国会与总统监督的情况下暗中运作数十年，封存了多架回收的非人类飞行器及生物遗骸。 (14:04) 相关消息来源称已识别出至少4种不同的非人类智能物种，其飞行器展现出穿梭于太空、大气与深海的跨介质航行能力，其机理符合广义相对论中操控局部时空度规的理论推演。 (18:58) UAP长期高频监控全球核武设施及铀矿精炼供应链，前苏联别洛科罗霍夫卡基地甚至记录到一架飞行器悬停时离奇触发了持续15秒的自动核导弹发射倒计时。 (32:05) 在马可·卢比奥等两党高层的推动与纪录片曝光下，白宫正式下令联邦机构解密UAP档案，试图打破深层体制封锁并推动学术界参与技术竞争以防被对手战略突袭。 (2:31)

Filmmaker Dan Farah and quantum physicist Dr. Hal Puthoff argue that elements of the U.S. government and foreign powers have concealed evidence of non-human intelligence and retrieved craft for over eight decades. They contend that this secrecy, initially driven by Cold War competition and fears of public panic, is now fracturing under pressure from congressional oversight, whistleblower disclosures, and executive declassification directives. Transmedium Propulsion and Space-Time Metric Physics (34:07) Dr. Puthoff and Farah describe observed UAP flight capabilities—such as the 2004 Nimitz Tic Tac encounter involving Commander David Fravor, where an object rapidly moved from sea level to 80,000 feet—as surpassing current human engineering. These craft demonstrate transmedium travel, operating seamlessly across outer space, atmospheric flight, and oceanic depths at hundreds of knots without hydrodynamic resistance or sonic disruption. Puthoff explains that these behaviors theoretically match applications of Einstein's general relativity field equations, wherein a craft generates a localized space-time warp bubble that expands space behind and contracts space in front of it. This theoretical metric isolates the vehicle from surrounding matter, reducing external friction and causing optical distortions that blur conventional cameras. Farah and Puthoff cite testimonies from defense insiders, including former UAP Task Force director Jay Stratton, who claimed under oath to have verified non-human craft and biological entities firsthand. The speakers state that recovery operations have yielded dozens of craft within the United States, representing at least four distinct non-human species. While some retrievals reportedly stemmed from operational failures or targeted ground-based directed-energy and electromagnetic pulses, Puthoff notes that other intact craft were discovered abandoned in remote desert areas, suggesting deliberate placement. Nuclear Asset Surveillance and Strategic Surprise (30:51) The source details an extensive, worldwide correlation between UAP activity and sensitive nuclear infrastructure, ranging from missile launch silos to uranium refinement facilities. Puthoff cites a Soviet-era event at the Byelokorokhovka ballistic missile base, where a hovering disc allegedly initiated an automated 15-second nuclear launch countdown without human input before disengaging. Understanding this attraction, U.S. and foreign intelligence agencies utilized high-density nuclear footprints as bait to draw craft into designated monitoring zones for sensor analysis. Defense and congressional officials frame this sustained monitoring as a critical national security vulnerability. Citing warnings from Senator Marco Rubio and former Director of National Intelligence General Jim Clapper, Farah notes that institutional refusal to acknowledge the phenomenon risks a severe strategic surprise comparable to Pearl Harbor or September 11. The primary geopolitical concern remains that adversarial nations like China or Russia might decipher and reverse-engineer these technologies first in complete secrecy. The Legacy Program and Institutionalized Stigma (15:25) According to the guests, modern cover-up protocols originated with the 1947 Roswell incident, where military authorities issued a weather balloon cover story to prevent societal disruption in the immediate aftermath of World War II. Secrecy subsequently hardened into the Legacy Program—a network of Unacknowledged Special Access Programs (USAPs) spanning the CIA, Air Force, Department of Energy, and defense contractors. Career administrators within these programs have historically viewed elected presidents and senators as temporary personnel, routinely withholding operational knowledge from executive leadership. To safeguard these assets, intelligence agencies orchestrated a pervasive cultural disinformation campaign in the late 1940s and 1950s that framed extraterrestrial discussions as absurd. Puthoff and Farah argue this strategy created an unintended bottleneck: mainstream academic institutions like MIT shunned the subject, depriving the government of the scientific talent required to reverse-engineer retrieved materials and prompting insiders to push for controlled public transparency. Declassification Mandates and Whistleblower Retaliation (64:20) The secrecy apparatus began eroding around 2010 when AATIP officials, including Jay Stratton, presented classified sensor files directly to the Senate Armed Services and Intelligence Committees. This engagement culminated in bipartisan congressional interest and executive orders under President Donald Trump to declassify UAP records, which released approximately 400 documents and an authenticated 1972 Apollo 17 image of a triangular craft above the Moon. However, Farah reports that military and intelligence agencies complied with only a fraction of the mandate, actively withholding the vast majority of legacy files. Individuals reporting classified programs have faced career-ending retaliation; whistleblower David Grusch filed formal complaints regarding revoked clearances and professional targeting, while other operatives reportedly faced direct life threats. In response to internal resistance, the White House and the Director of National Intelligence have initiated quiet messaging campaigns assuring gatekeepers of amnesty to encourage evidence handovers without the threat of legal prosecution. While bipartisan momentum and executive directives have accelerated public declassification, core physical evidence remains compartmentalized within unacknowledged special access programs, leaving broader scientific validation pending the release of further official records.

纪录片制作人 Dan Farah 与量子物理学家兼前情报顾问 Dr. Hal Puthoff 主张，美国政府内部存在长达数十年的非人类智能（UAP）保密与逆向工程体系，并指出该体系正面临来自国会跨党派审查及行政解密指令的严峻冲击。根据二人的陈述，多项物理观测与知情官员证词显示，相关飞行器运用了超越已知人类工程水平的时空度规操纵技术，但深度保密的特种访问项目与军情官僚机构仍在极力阻滞公众知情权。 历史保密机制与深度隔离的遗留计划 (15:25) Farah 与 Puthoff 叙述称，自 1947 年新墨西哥州罗斯福（Roswell）坠毁事件以来，美国军情部门为防范二战后公众恐慌并在冷战中抢先苏联逆向工程，建立了严密的保密体系。Puthoff 称其在 2008 年参与国防情报局（DIA）的“先进航空武器系统应用计划”（AAWSAP）时，发现了未受国会与白宫有效监督的“遗留计划”（Legacy Program）。该体系跨越 CIA、美国空军、能源部及私人防务承包商，职业官僚常将民选总统与议员视为任期短暂的“临时工”并故意隐瞒情报。 为封锁消息，情报机构被指在 20 世纪中期发起去信誉化运动，通过文化媒介将 UAP 调查塑造为荒谬之谈，迫使主流学界、MIT 顶尖科研人员与政客自我规避审查。近年，前高级情报官员 Jay Stratton 与 Jim McCaslin 推动的 AATIP 计划向参议院情报委员会递交传感器硬数据，才打破长久以来的制度性沉默。与此同时，前情报官员 David Grusch 等吹哨人则向监察长指控其在公开数据后遭遇安全许可撤销及系统性职业报复，亦有特种作战人员因人身威胁临时退出公开访谈。 坠机回收、外星生物与核武设施关联 (14:04) 根据 Farah 引述的政府与军方多位直接接触者证言，美国境内已回收数十架非人类飞行器，并发现非人类生物实体的遗骸。曾领导政府 UAP 任务小组、官职相当于两星将领的 Jay Stratton 证实曾亲眼目击相关飞行器与生物；知情人士更声称辨识出至少四种不同的非人类物种。关于回收成因，Puthoff 指出部分飞行器可能因军方高能定向激光或电磁脉冲（EMP）拦截而坠毁，亦有完好无损的飞行器被直接遗弃在偏远沙漠中，形式类似刻意的“技术捐赠”。 对话指出，UAP 活动高度集中于全球核导弹基地、铀矿开采地与精炼工厂。Puthoff 详述了冷战时期的苏联 Byelokorokhovka 导弹基地事件：一架不明飞行器在基地上空悬停数小时，未有任何操作员输入代码，系统却自主触发了核导弹发射倒计时达 15 秒之久，随后自行解除。这种规律使得军情部门将密集核设施作为电磁诱饵，主动吸引并观测不明飞行器的活动。 时空度规操纵、跨介质机动与意识交互 (34:07) 针对星际旅行的可行性与 2004 年“尼米兹号”Tic Tac 事件等观测记录，Puthoff 从理论物理角度解释称，这类飞行器并非依托常规推进穿行空间，而是借助爱因斯坦广义相对论场方程操纵局部“时空度规”。通过在机体前方收缩空间、后方膨胀空间形成局部“曲速泡”（warp bubble），飞行器能规避质量摩擦阻力，以数百节速度无阻碍穿梭于太空、大气层与深海，展现出“跨介质”运行能力。Farah 指出，这种曲速包络会引发强烈引力光学畸变，恰恰解释了民用智能手机拍摄画面普遍模糊不清的物理机制。 此外，回收飞行器内部普遍缺乏传统机械控制面板，暗示其采用直接神经或意识控制界面。Puthoff 结合其主导的长达二十年的 CIA“星门计划”（Project Stargate）远距离遥视研究，指出意识与物质之间的量子关联并非虚构。在斯坦福研究所（SRI）进行的超导屏蔽实验中，受试者曾成功人为干扰并改变了海军用于探测夸克的超导屏蔽芯片振荡频率。这表明意识与非定域信息交互的物理机制，可能与非人类飞行器的操作逻辑存在潜在交集。 解密博弈、两党共识与地缘战略竞赛 (20:41) 当前 UAP 议题已成为美国政坛极罕见的跨党派焦点。参议员 Marco Rubio 与前国家情报总监 Jim Clapper 均警告称，无视 UAP 证据将导致类似珍珠港或“9·11”事件的历史性“战略意外”，尤其是面对中国和俄罗斯在逆向工程领域的隐蔽竞逐。由于中俄威权体制缺乏国会审查与独立媒体监督，两国均可秘密进行全面技术逆向研发；而美国长期将顶尖学术界隔离在外的保密政策，反而削弱了自身的科研突破效率。 针对这一困局，白宫、国家情报总监办公室（DNI）与国防部近期试图向军情守门人提供免责豁免，鼓励移交历史档案。特朗普总统曾下令联邦机构解密数百份涉 UAP 档案，首批公开资料包含经 UAP 特别工作组认证的 1972 年阿波罗 17 号登月舱拍摄的月球表面三角形飞行器照片。然而，受访者透露官僚体系的合规程度极低，大部分核心文件仍被深层机构扣留。目前，前官员 Jay Stratton 正协助行政层面对隐藏于深层官僚网络中的证据与实物资产展开系统清查。 本期访谈展示了来自前军情官员、物理学家及国会议员的大量内幕口述与间接证据，勾勒出非人类智能存在的惊人图景；但所有核心结论仍高度依赖未完全解密或仍被扣留的保密资料，普通公众与独立科学界迄今依然无法直接获取经同侪评议的物理实体与确凿遥测原数据。随着行政解密指令与官僚阻力持续拉锯，未来数批档案的公开程度将直接决定该项指控能否从内部证言真正确立为经得起科学检验的客观公理。

## Background 该视频由著名播客频道 The Diary Of A CEO 于 2026 年 5 月 14 日发布在 YouTube 平台上。节目简介显示，前中央情报局（CIA）高级科学顾问兼量子物理学家哈尔·普霍夫博士（Dr. Hal Puthoff）与重磅调查纪录片《揭秘时代》制片人丹·法拉（Dan Farah）共同做客播客，揭露美国政府自 1940 年代起掩盖非人类智能生命存在的深层内幕，并探讨近期特朗普总统解密指令背后正在解开的人类史上最大秘密。 ## TL;DR 对谈深入剖析了围绕不明异常现象（UAP）长达八十年的系统性隐瞒与大国间绝密的反向工程竞赛。嘉宾们指出，独立运转的“遗留项目”长期绕过国会与历任总统的监督，不仅掌握着回收的非人类飞行器实体残骸与生物体标本，更面临 UAP 频繁干扰甚至远程关闭核导弹设施的严峻国家安全挑战。普霍夫博士从理论物理与曲速气泡机制论证了其跨介质航行及民用设备难以清晰成像的原因，并回顾了冷战时期中情局星门计划的遥视机密实验。法拉则透露，随着马可·卢比奥等最高层知情政要的推动以及白宫滚动解密进程的开启，UAP 议题已成为华盛顿罕见的跨党派共识，人类终将迎来正式宣告地外生命存在的历史时刻。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对谈笼罩在一种极具张力的严肃性与历史临界感之中，既有顶级情报圈内幕被层层剥开时的屏息凝神，也有前沿理论物理推演带来的思维震颤。主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特秉持着敏锐而审慎的怀疑论视角不断步步紧逼，而两位嘉宾则以惊人的笃定、冷静且克制的专业口吻，娓娓道来那些足以颠覆人类世界观的震撼实证。从对国家机器官僚阻力的冷峻控诉，到畅想清洁能源革命与星际时代的崇高宏愿，节目在理性的求证辩难与对未知文明的谦卑敬畏之间达成了微妙的平衡，给观众带来如同置身真实谍战大片与哲学宇宙风暴交织的深度沉浸感。 ## Bulletin - [02:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=151s) 随着特朗普签署历史性总统指令开启UAP解密，首批公开档案包含阿波罗登月任务中的月球三角飞行器等影像，内部知情人士称下一批核心证据预计将在30天左右以滚动解密形式陆续公布。 - [06:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=368s) 由中情局、空军、能源部及核心国防承包商联合把持的绝密“遗留项目”已脱离国会与历任总统监管独立运转长达80年，美方多年来正与中俄暗中争夺非人类科技的逆向工程主导权。 - [32:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1925s) UAP对全球核设施表现出极端警戒与干预能力，冷战时期曾强制启动苏联导弹发射倒计时15秒并多次切断美军导弹控制，情报界曾通过高浓度核资产作为“诱饵”成功诱导UAP现身记录。 - [01:25:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=5126s) 在当下政治极化的美国政坛，UAP与非人类智能生命调查成为民主党与共和党唯一达成完全一致的“最强跨党派议题”，高层政要正合力打破深层官僚阻碍推进系统性信息大公开。 ## Key takeaways - [15:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=932s) 自1947年罗斯威尔事件后，美国情报系统通过系统性散布虚假信息和文化污名化，封锁非人类飞行器与遗骸证据，致使主流科学界数十年间未能介入逆向工程。 - [10:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=633s) 美国奉行“告诉盟友就等于泄露给敌人”的地缘博弈逻辑，因防范中俄知晓其技术边界而实施绝对封锁，反噬了本国顶尖科研人才参与技术突破的可能性。 - [18:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1103s) 多名军政高级官员证实军方不仅回收了数十架非人类飞行器残骸，且在坠毁现场回收到了生物体遗骸，接触过第一手档案的核心人员透露已知存在至少四种生命形式。 - [21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1310s) 深层常设官僚体系利用终身制与特别准入机制，将任期仅4至8年的民选总统视为“临时工”，导致绝大多数历任在位总统对核心机密一无所知。 - [30:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1825s) 人类在极短时间内裂变原子并逆向工程外星技术，被非人类智能视为打破物种平衡的危险信号，引发其对全球铀矿开采、精炼及核武器库的全天候严密监视。 - [34:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2045s) 在广义相对论的时空度规工程框架下，曲速引擎与虫洞具备严谨数学论证；UAP通过在周围生成时空曲速气泡改变有效光速并排开外部物质，实现跨介质无阻力穿梭。 - [48:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2913s) 智能手机难以拍摄高清画面的科学机理在于飞行器外围的高能曲速场会导致光线发生严重折射与相位畸变，使常规光学相机拍摄呈现模糊失真状态。 - [40:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2441s) 在未公开特殊访问项目（USAP）的严苛法律约束下，涉密企业高管被强制要求在公众面前彻底否认事实，NASA等机构报告亦受到预设政治立场的审查限制。 - [53:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3192s) 马可·卢比奥等决策者警示，如珍珠港与9·11一样的重大历史惨剧均源于缺乏想象力；在UAP问题上保持漠视将面临对手率先攻克逆向工程带来的灾难性战略突袭。 - [01:07:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4052s) 中情局曾耗资数百万美元设立长达20余年的“星门计划”，科学证实了基于量子纠缠的意识远距遥视能力，并曾成功应用于非洲坠机搜寻等真实军事谍报行动中。 - [01:17:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4635s) 多起回收案例显示UAP内部缺乏机械仪表与物理操作杆，结合斯坦福量子芯片意识扰动实验，表明该飞行器极可能由乘员通过神经意识直连进行驾驶操控。 - [01:04:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3889s) 国会与调查团队目前正向军事情报系统释放免责宽免信号，试图消除各部门“看门人”成为历史罪人的恐惧心理，全力调取被深层官僚机构扣押的实物与高清音视频档案。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=0s) 震惊世界的解密序幕：长达八十年的真相掩盖 长达八十年来，关于非人类智能生命存在的真相，一直被美国政府内部的核心力量严密遮蔽。然而，伴随着最新一批解密证据的公之于众，这一历史性的秘密正在被迅速撕开。解密档案中的证据极其明确地指向一个事实：地球上确实存在掌握着超前尖端科技的非人类生命形式，且它们的活动轨迹无处不在。然而，长期掌握并把守这些机密核心的“看门人”（Gatekeepers）却始终坚持认为公众尚未准备好接纳这一真相。为了守护这些秘密，不仅知情者的生命曾遭到威胁，许多掌握第一手证据的人甚至不敢向白宫和在任总统汇报，导致多任美国总统在任期内都对该项目的存在一无所知。 访谈前瞻中披露了数个极具冲击力的核心事实：过去几十年间不仅发生过多起不明异常现象（UAP）飞行器坠毁事件，在部分坠毁现场甚至回收到了非人类生物的遗体；不仅空中目击事件屡见不鲜，甚至连海军舰艇上的官兵也频繁目睹这些不明飞行物潜入水下高速航行。面对大量多渠道、在各种极端环境下被反复验证的实证，这已经不再是信与不信的问题，而是人类必须正视的现实。针对外界对 NASA 报告否认外星来源、为何智能手机极少拍下清晰画面、这些地外生命是否早已潜伏于人类社会等疑问，嘉宾们指出，人类终将迎来那个过去只在科幻电影中见过的历史时刻——一位在任美国总统走向讲台，正式向全世界宣告：“我们在宇宙中并不孤单。” 在正式切入这场重磅对谈前，主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）向观众分享了一组后台订阅数据，指出许多长期观看节目的忠实观众经常因平台机制被系统误取消订阅。他诚挚呼吁观众轻点屏幕检查订阅状态，强调这一简单免费的举动是支撑团队持续投入巨额资源、跨越重重阻力邀请世界顶级嘉宾并保持节目完全免费的核心动力，并郑重承诺团队将一如既往地为观众呈现最深刻、最硬核的顶级对话。 --- ### [02:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=151s) 绝密档案解密：特朗普政令与《揭秘时代》的震撼发酵 主持人史蒂芬将话题引向核心议题：随着特朗普总统近期下令解密包含四百份绝密文件、高清晰度影像及机密军方报告的档案库，不明异常现象（UAP，即 Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena）再次引爆了全球舆论。好莱坞著名制片人兼导演丹·法拉（Dan Farah）详细阐述了他涉足该领域的渊源与震撼发现。丹自幼对不明飞行物抱有浓厚兴趣，通读了几乎所有相关文献与纪录片，但他始终感到遗憾——市场上充斥着猎奇与猜测，缺乏一部以极其严肃、客观、严谨的纪实态度，完全基于对美国政府内部掌握直接知情权的资深官员进行深度访谈的重磅调查纪录片。 为了弥补这一空白，丹在极度保密的状态下历时三年半拍摄完成了开创性纪录片《揭秘时代》（*The Age of Disclosure*）。在深入接触军方与情报界最高层的过程中，他迅速意识到局势的严峻与真实程度远远超出了公众的想象。在幕后，这些现象被美国国家安全机构视为最高级别的现实挑战。丹指出，普通大众至今未能认识到的两项最重磅的核心事实是： 1. **八十年的全球性掩盖**：自 1940 年代后期起，美国政府内部的部分核心机构以及其他大国政府，便系统性地对非人类智能生命的存在进行了长达八十年的全面封锁与掩盖。 2. **秘密冷战与逆向工程竞赛**：把守这一秘密的核心圈子，几十年来始终与中国、俄罗斯等战略竞争对手展开一场赌注极高、隐秘至极的暗中冷战竞赛，目标是率先逆向工程破解这些非人类起源的尖端科技。这关系到全球地缘政治与霸权归属，其战略赌注之高无可复加。 该纪录片上映后在全美引发了空前的震动与讨论，直接促成了特朗普总统在二月中旬签署了一项极具历史意义的总统行政指令，要求各联邦安全与情报机构全面开启对非人类智能生命及 UAP 证据的解密进程。纪录片的受访阵容规格极高，包括现任美国国务卿兼国家安全顾问马可·卢比奥（Marco Rubio）、白宫国家安全委员会核心成员、海军顶尖战斗机飞行员、多位现役及退役将军、海军上将、前国防部长，以及美国政府历次机密 UAP 调查项目的核心掌舵人。丹透露，这些掌握第一手绝密资料的专家此前虽然在法律允许范围内有权发声，但长期遭到系统性的施压与阻挠；面对主流媒体可能带来的冷嘲热讽与声誉毁灭，没有任何一个人愿意冒着职业生涯终结的风险孤军奋战。丹通过搭建信任桥梁，为他们提供了一个“抱团取暖”（safety in numbers）的平台，促使这群最高级别的内部知情者得以携手走出阴影，集体面向世人公开真相。 --- ### [06:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=368s) 从情报界到 AAWSAP：暗处盘踞数十年的“遗留项目” 作为纪录片中的核心受访科学家之一，著名量子物理学家哈尔·普霍夫博士（Dr. Hal Puthoff）分享了他长达数十年的机密科研生涯与参与 UAP 调查的深层内幕。普霍夫博士早年曾在美国国家安全局（NSA）服役，随后长期为中央情报局（CIA）及美国情报体系内部的多家核心机构担任高级科学顾问。在从事国家尖端技术工作期间，他同时担任了比格洛航天公司（Bigelow Aerospace）创始人罗伯特·比格洛（Robert Bigelow）的首席科学顾问。比格洛不仅是航天工业界的巨头，更曾在地球轨道上发射并部署过两个私人太空舱试验模块；对于真正涉足航天深空领域的先行者而言，探索“人类在太空中究竟会遭遇什么”是一个不可避免的科学与安全课题。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: AAWSAP与历史遗留项目的冲突流程图 accDescr: 展示了2008年国防情报局设立AAWSAP后，与1940年代起脱离国会监管的秘密遗留项目产生利益冲突并最终失去资金的链条。 subgraph 官方调查发起 A["国防情报局 (DIA)"] --> B["成立高级航空航天威胁识别项目 (AAWSAP, 2008)"] B --> C["哈尔·普霍夫博士及顶尖科学家团队介入"] end subgraph 遭遇深层阴影 C --> D["调查核设施空域UAP异常入侵"] D --> E{"触碰未知深层项目"} E --> F["撞上暗中运作的'遗留项目' (Legacy Program)"] end subgraph 官僚压制与结局 F --> G["1940年代起源<br/>完全脱离国会与白宫监管"] G --> H["设置官僚红线与行政阻碍"] H --> I["项目于2010年被切断预算资金"] end ``` 2008 年，美国国防情报局（DIA）主动介入，认为必须彻底查明 UAP 领域的真实安全风险，因而正式成立了“高级航空武器系统应用项目”（AAWSAP，随后演化并关联至 AATIP），并网罗了以普霍夫博士为代表的一批顶尖物理学家与技术专家团队。然而，该项目在展开全系统摸底时遭遇了巨大的幕后阻力。调查团队原以为军方内部没有其他平行的 UFO 研究机构，却意外撞上了一个深藏在重重黑幕之下、代号为“遗留项目”（Legacy Program）的极其古老的秘密行动体。 - **脱离监管的独立王国**：该“遗留项目”自 1940 年代起便在阴影中独立运转，不仅完全绕过了美国国会的法定监督，甚至长期将历任白宫在任总统完全蒙在鼓里，处于保密等级的绝对盲区。 - **激烈的官僚系统绞杀**：遗留项目的幕后掌控者极力阻止任何外部力量对其涉足的核心机密进行调查。他们利用极其错综复杂的军政官僚机制与行政壁垒，在幕后对 AAWSAP 团队百般阻挠，最终于 2010 年成功切断了该项目的国会专项拨款，导致其正式建制被迫终止。 - **国家安全与基础物理学的双重震撼**：尽管面临无端刁难，包括杰·斯特拉顿（Jay Stratton）在内的核心调查官员依然拒绝放弃追踪，因为他们掌握着极其确凿的证据——UAP 频繁在美军高度机密的核武器发射基地上空悬停并干扰导弹系统。更为震撼的是一线海军飞行员的雷达与目击报告：不明飞行器能够直接从深海高速冲出洋面，并在极高速度下做出承受 60G 以上过载的 90 度直角转弯。这种完全无视人类现有空气动力学与基础物理学规律的机动表现，迫使像普霍夫这样的顶尖量子物理学家不得不全盘介入，重新审视人类科学的认知边界。 ### [09:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=544s) 理论物理的解释与非人类遗体的回收传闻 在探讨未知飞行器的动力学原理时，哈尔·普霍夫博士解释道，科学界在理论层面其实已经摸到了门槛。正如人类在所有电磁学应用中依赖麦克斯韦方程组，在研究黑洞和宇宙大尺度现象时依赖爱因斯坦的广义相对论方程一样，如果人类在工程层面上能够操纵和实现这些引力方程，理论上就能完美复现目击者在 UAP（未确认异常现象）飞行器上观察到的不可思议现象。换句话说，其背后的物理学机理已经有迹可循，真正的瓶颈在于人类当下的工程制造技术还远远无法企及。 当主持人问及他们是否相信外星人的存在时，丹·法拉赫明确表示，他采访的多位军政核心内部人士均已正式记录在案，根据他们的切身经历，多年来确实发生过多起 UAP 坠毁事件，并由美国政府的特定部门进行了秘密回收；在某些坠毁现场，甚至回收到了非人类生物的遗体。法拉赫强调，所有受访者都谨守法律红线，尽管他们掌握着高度敏感的机密信息，但在法律许可的极限范围内明确证实了非人类遗体的存在，甚至有数位关键人物已经在国会宣誓作证时重申了这一点。 - 物理原理：通过广义相对论方程的工程化应用，理论上可以产生 UAP 所展现的反重力与极端机动效果。 - 证人誓词：多名高级官员和情报人员已在国会宣誓作证，证实军方曾回收过坠毁的非人类飞行器与非人类遗体。 --- ### [10:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=633s) “告诉了盟友，就等于告诉了敌人”：战略竞争与学术盲区 面对“既然如此惊人，为什么官员长期无法公开谈论”的疑问，普霍夫指出，参与绝密项目的人员都签署了极为严苛的保密协议。更深层的战略担忧在于地缘政治博弈：既然美国可能有所发现，那么像俄罗斯和中国这样的大国境内也极有可能发生过类似坠毁。一旦美国公开自己的研究进展和技术认知，就可能让潜在对手借机抢先一步占领技术高地。 法拉赫引用了受访者中最常提到的一句格言：“你无法告诉盟友而不泄露给敌人”（You can't tell your friends without telling your enemies）。也就是说，一旦向公众公开，中俄两国也会立即知晓美国的认知边界与盲区。然而，过去数十年的绝对封锁也带来了巨大的反噬效应：美国正与对手展开一场极高风险的逆向工程竞赛，但自 20 世纪 40 年代以来的严密保密制度，导致主流科学界和高等学府根本不知道这个领域是真实且合法的研究方向。正如法拉赫所感叹的那样：“今年从麻省理工学院（MIT）毕业的最聪明的天才们，压根不会想到能把自己的聪明才智投入到这上面。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 战略保密与逆向工程竞赛困境 accDescr: 展示保密机制在阻断对手获取情报的同时，也遏制了本国科学界的技术突破。 subgraph DefenseLoop["地缘竞争逻辑"] A["回收非人类科技"] --> B["防范中俄掌握进度"] B --> C["绝对保密与信息封锁"] end subgraph Dilemma["负面连锁反应"] C --> D["向公众与学界完全隐瞒"] D --> E["科学界视为荒诞伪科学"] E --> F["顶尖科研人才无法参与"] F --> G["逆向工程研发停滞迟缓"] end C -.->|"无法告诉朋友而不泄露给敌人"| B G -->|"错失先机"| A ``` --- ### [12:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=730s) 频繁的现实接触与核武设施瘫痪事件 法拉赫斩钉截铁地表示，他“100% 相信非人类智慧生命早已来到地球，并在这里存在了很长时间”，尽管他无法确定它们是否真的混迹于人类社会中生活。他指出，UAP 并不是陈年旧案，而是正在发生的现实：民航飞行员几乎每天都在向美国联邦航空管理局（FAA）报告目击遭遇；美国海军战斗机飞行员在东海岸训练时屡见不鲜，并沿着军方指挥链逐级上报；更令人不寒而栗的是，这类飞行器频繁在全美各地的核武器基地上空盘旋。 普霍夫特别补充了一个极其严峻的既成事实：UAP 曾直接悬停在地下核导弹发射井上方，并当场切断了核导弹的控制系统，将其彻底关闭。面对这种压倒性、人类完全无法掌握的尖端科技展示，任何国家安全机构都不得不严肃对待。当被问及公众凭什么相信所谓“回收了外星人遗体”时，法拉赫直言，在那些最高机密文件彻底解密之前，公众目前能依靠的最坚实证据，就是那些不惜赌上自己一生的声誉与职业生涯、站出来向公众披露真相的高层吹哨人。 - 日常报告渠道：民航飞行员向 FAA 汇报，海军飞行员向五角大楼作战指挥链汇报。 - 核威胁案例：UAP 曾多次直接远程瘫痪并关闭美军处于战备状态的洲际核导弹系统。 --- ### [13:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=828s) 重量级吹哨人杰伊·斯特拉顿的亲历证言 在纪录片拍摄过程中，最核心的证人之一便是杰伊·斯特拉顿（Jay Stratton）。他是高级航空威胁识别计划（AATIP）的联合发起人，随后担任了 UAP 特遣部队（UAP Task Force）的负责人，主持了美国历史上规模最大的全政府范围 UAP 调查。斯特拉顿在镜头前正式公开证实：他曾“亲眼目睹过非人类生命体和非人类飞行器”。 法拉赫强调了斯特拉顿证言的分量。斯特拉顿在几年前退休时，已官拜联邦政府高级行政主管（SES），这是全美只有不到 1% 的联邦雇员能达到的顶峰级别，地位与军中的陆军少将或海军两星少将相当。他不仅拥有极高的安全许可，还曾深度服役于海军情报局、中央情报局（CIA），并曾担任国防情报局（DIA）航空航天战部门负责人。作为极具公信力与威望的情报界泰斗，斯特拉顿在合法允许且安全的极限范围内，将自己的信誉押在了这句证言上。 --- ### [15:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=932s) 罗斯威尔始末与长达数十年的认知操控 追溯这套保密制度的根源，法拉赫将其回溯到了 1947 年的罗斯威尔事件。当时军方第一时间的简报承认在牧场俘获了“飞碟”，但随后立刻抛出了所谓“气象气球”的掩盖谎言。多位接受法拉赫采访的高官证实罗斯威尔事件确有其事，美军确实回收了非人类技术的残骸及尸体。设身处地站在杜鲁门或艾森豪威尔总统的角度看，当时人类刚刚走出第二次世界大战的炼狱，世界秩序方才勉强稳定，没有任何一位国家元首敢走上讲台对民众说：“地球面临着一种我们一无所知、无法匹敌、也无法保护你们的全新高等智慧威胁。” ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: UAP 污名化演变历程 accDescr: 从 1947 罗斯威尔事件演变至冷战时期的心理认知战与现代破冰。 A["1947 罗斯威尔事件<br/>（高层选择封锁）"] --> B["冷战技术竞赛<br/>（封锁加剧防范苏联）"] B --> C["CIA 认知战<br/>（制造文化污名与伪科学标签）"] C --> D["全社会噤若寒蝉<br/>（政客与科学家不敢涉足）"] D --> E["2010 AATIP 建立<br/>（斯特拉顿等人开启破冰）"] ``` 随后而来的冷战让这一隐瞒行为变成了冷酷的地缘战略需求。当美国得知苏联也回收了未知飞行器残骸后，一场争夺非人类逆向工程的暗战彻底拉开。为了给这项绝密行动打上一层无懈可击的“安全包装”，情报部门在 20 世纪 40 年代末和 50 年代初精心构筑了一套文化污名机制。普霍夫提到，CIA 甚至专门召集会议，系统性地向社会散布针对这一领域的“虚假信息”（Disinformation）。他们资助了一批将外星人描绘得荒诞可笑的影视作品，让任何探索这一领域的人都被扣上“神经病”、“疯子”的帽子，一旦涉足便身败名裂、仕途尽毁。法拉赫将其定性为“美国政府历史上最成功的虚假信息宣传战”，直到 2010 年杰伊·斯特拉顿与吉姆·拉卡茨基等人秘密组建 AATIP 并搜集硬核数据向参议院汇报时，这一冰封数十年的禁区才终于被撬开了一道裂缝。 ### [18:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1103s) 国会调查、技术竞赛与四种地外生命形式 当参议院情报委员会和参议院军事委员会的成员在绝密环境下审阅高度机密的数据时，时任参议院情报委员会副主席的马可·卢比奥（Marco Rubio）等人逐渐意识到，这绝非空穴来风。更严峻的是，不明空中现象（UAP）频繁在美军核武器基地等绝密设施上空盘旋。美国不仅面临潜在的国土安全风险，更卷入了一场与其他大国的绝密逆向工程竞赛；而公众舆论对飞碟议题长期的“污名化”，反而使美国科学家根本不敢涉足这一领域，导致整个国家在科技竞争中处于极其不利的劣势。 在探讨造访地球的非人类智能时，量子物理学家哈尔·普特霍夫（Dr. Hal Puthoff）透露，直接参与过残骸回收工作的内部核心人员向他证实，至少存在“四种截然不同的生命形式”。普特霍夫严谨地说明自己并未亲手接触过这些实体，但他对这些深喉信源的真实性深信不疑。电影制片人丹·法拉（Dan Farah）补充指出，在他制作纪录片《披露时代》（*The Age of Disclosure*）的数年时间里，多方公开与非公开的信息源均证实，仅在美国本土，就曾发生过数十起非人类飞行器的回收事件——这些坠毁一部分属于器械自身的故障坠落，另一部分则是被某种手段致盲或击落导致的。 - **核设施威胁与科技博弈**：UAP 对高度机密的核武阵地表现出超常兴趣；污名化阻碍了主流科学界的正向研究，使得与中俄等竞争对手的逆向技术研发陷入被动。 - **外星生命谱系多样性**：回收人员第一手证言表明，已知的非人类实体至少存在四种不同类型（"at least four types"）。 - **数十架坠毁残骸**：数十年来，仅在美军和特工部门掌握的档案中，在美国本土回收的非人类来源飞船就达数十艘之多。 --- ### [19:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1191s) 特战部队的生死缄默与《披露时代》的信息突围 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 国会外围到公开披露的信息流转渠道 accDescr: 展示国会情报委员会如何通过专业纪录片作为安全出口向公众传递解密真相 subgraph 内部调查与保密阻力 A["AAWSAP / AATIP / UAP 特遣队调查"] --> B["参议院情报与军事委员会获取机密数据"] C["一线特战回收人员"] -- "严密保密誓约与人身威胁<br/>（拒登镜头）" --> D["仅能私下接触调查者"] end subgraph 突破传统官僚阻碍 B --> E{"传统媒体缺陷<br/>（无法在6-15分钟内解释复杂议题）"} E --> F["《披露时代》纪录片计划"] D -. "匿名背景信息".-> F end subgraph 披露推进 F --> G["马可·卢比奥与国安会高官实名出镜"] G --> H["推动合法、系统化的全国公开披露"] end ``` 谈及是否接触过直接参与残骸处理的亲历者，丹·法拉透露他曾与多位参与过回收行动的特种部队人员进行非公开交谈，但对方均因保密协议与人身顾虑坚决拒绝出镜。其中一位高级特种作战指挥官原本答应接受采访，却在拍摄前两天突然发来令人不寒而栗的信息：“经过深思熟虑以及与妻子的长谈，我认定如果参加你的访谈，我就是在‘自寻死路’（forfeiting my life）。”对方极为严密且沉重的措辞，直接反映出这类行动背后不可触碰的极端危险性与严格保密程度。 正是由于这一议题极其错综复杂，涉及数十年秘密历史与前沿物理，根本无法在福克斯新闻、CNN 等有线电视的几分钟短新闻或《60分钟》的短专题里说清，国会内部了解真相的领袖们长期苦于没有合法的公众沟通渠道。当法拉着手秘密筹拍长篇纪录片并建立起安全的信息披露架构后，国会情报人员与国家安全高官便将其作为系统化推进“信息大公开”（Disclosure）的核心平台。马可·卢比奥以及多位白宫国家安全委员会成员纷纷正式受访，旨在以负责任且符合法规的方式，向大众揭开历史遮羞布。 - **特种部队绝密回收**：多名涉足实地回收行动的高级军方人员因顾及生命安全拒绝抛头露面。 - **传统媒体无法承载披露需求**：高度复杂的技术、官僚架构与历史背景，让几分钟的新闻切片无法完整传达事实。 - **两党建制派的合力破局**：在确认纪录片的严肃性与安全性后，多位国会及国安核心人物选择将此作为向公众安全展示真相的主阵地。 --- ### [21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1310s) 躲避总统监督的“传袭项目”与永久官僚体系 当被问及美国历任总统是否知晓外星真相时，普特霍夫与法拉均明确表示：从历史上看，历任在位总统大多被完全蒙在鼓里。卢比奥在纪录片中更是直白地指出，这一秘密甚至故意对现任三军统帅隐瞒。深层主导这一切的正是所谓的“传袭项目”（Legacy Program）——其核心力量由中央情报局（CIA）的关键部门、空军、能源部（DOE）以及少数大型国防承包巨头联合组成。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 传袭项目的权力垄断与权力代际对抗 accDescr: 展示中情局、空军、能源部及军工复合体如何通过终身官僚机制架空短期任职的总统与议员 subgraph 传袭项目统治核心 ["传袭项目（Legacy Program）"] P1["中央情报局 (CIA) 核心部门"] P2["美国空军 (USAF) 关键部门"] P3["能源部 (DOE) 核机密网络"] P4["顶级国防军火承包商"] end subgraph 短期选举官员 ["民选监督体系（任期短暂）"] E1["美国总统（4-8年任期）<br/>'临时工'"] E2["国会议员 / 参议员"] end P1 & P2 & P3 & P4 -- "职业技术官僚掌握数十年控制权<br/>熬走一届又一届白宫班子" --> ShortLived["实施信息封锁与项目隔离"] ShortLived -. "隐瞒真实预算与逆向进展".-> E1 ``` 在庞大的联邦安全机器内部，这些机构的职业官僚可以在关键指挥岗位上盘踞数十年之久。他们将白宫总统视为流水般的“临时工”（temporary help），只需凭借高度分级（compartmentalized）的保密借口与官僚手段，就能轻易熬走一任又一任总统和参议员，维持内部闭环运转。 这一局面直到近期才出现历史性转折：马可·卢比奥在深入掌握真相后，身兼国务卿与总统国家安全事务助理两大要职——在美利坚历史上，此前仅有亨利·基辛格曾同时兼任过这两个全球最有权势的外交与安全职位长达两年。卢比奥前所未有的顶层话语权，加上《披露时代》引发的全民舆论浪潮，促使重返白宫的特朗普总统获得了历史上绝大多数前任都未曾享有的超深层情资简报。 - **传袭项目四核心**：CIA、空军、能源部以及深度捆绑的私营军工巨头构成了事实上的垄断闭环。 - **“临时工”隐喻**：终身制情报与军方官僚利用权力周期差，系统性规避行政权力与立法机关的合法监督。 - **超级职位打破僵局**：卢比奥历史性地兼任国务卿与国安助理，彻底改变了白宫过去数十年被蒙蔽的被动局面。 --- ### [23:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1428s) 两位总统的态度反差与首批官方解密档案 关于大众是否“尚未准备好面对外星真相”，普特霍夫指出，秘密项目幕后人员长期陷入自设的思维牢笼，借口“无法预测公众反应”，选择无限期秘而不宣。而在政治最高层，奥巴马与特朗普的表态呈现出鲜明且耐人寻味的对照： 1. **奥巴马的半开玩笑与眉眼玄机**：奥巴马在接受采访时曾声称外星人确实存在，但他没亲眼见过，且残骸不在 51 区、也没有地下基地，“除非存在一个极其庞大的阴谋连总统都瞒着”。法拉分析认为，奥巴马说“它们是真的”时完全是坦诚的，而提到巨额阴谋时挑眉喝咖啡的神态，实则是暗示知情者内部公开的秘密；次日特朗普在“空军一号”上便公开指责奥巴马泄露了绝密机密。 2. **特朗普第一任期的秘密通报**：在特朗普首个总统任期内，UAP 特遣队负责人杰伊·斯特拉顿（Jay Stratton）曾亲自前往白宫内阁进行深度简报。当时幕僚团队要求汇报的直接目的，就是评估如果特朗普突然走上讲台向全世界宣布“我们在宇宙中并不孤单”，国际社会将会产生何种政治与社会震荡。 正因卢比奥等知情者全面掌权，特朗普签署指令开启了前所未有的解密程序。就在本期对谈录制前几天，美国政府刚刚解密了首批 UAP 核心档案，包括多份历史报告、录像及高分辨率静态照片。法拉指出，这仅仅是后续一系列更重磅披露的“第一批次”（first tranche），其中最引人注目的，莫过于一张来自 1972 年阿波罗登月任务期间拍摄的神秘未解照片。 - **白宫研判全球冲击**：特朗普首届内阁曾正式推演白宫公开证实外星生命时的政治与全球安全余震。 - **奥巴马涉密言论风波**：承认非人智能存在并非虚构，关于“51 区没有外星残骸”的表态实则是真话——因为真正的逆向工场被转移隐藏在其他绝密设施。 - **解密行动全面启动**：政府首批公开的文件与图像仅为冰山一角，冷战时期与阿波罗登月时期的原始异常观测资料正陆续进入公众视野。 ### [27:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1667s) 月球三角飞行器机密图像与特朗普解密指令的阻力 Dan Farah 透露，在解密的文件批次中，最引人注目的证据之一是一张拍摄于月球上空的三角状飞行器照片。该影像由宇航员从登月舱视角拍摄，清晰记录了一架看似三角形的飞行器悬停在月球表面以及宇航员上方；五角大楼的 UAP 特遣队（UAP Task Force）早在多年前就对该影像展开彻底核实，并最终确认其真实无实。然而，这一批公开的资料仅仅是冰山一角。Dan 指出，他和量子物理学家 Hal Puthoff 拥有许多共通的情报渠道，来自各个联邦机构的知情人士纷纷向他们证实：尽管前总统在 2月中旬发布了历史性指令，要求各联邦机构彻底解密有关非人类智能（NHI）和 UAP 的证据，但各大机构的配合程度极其有限——他们仅上交了手头掌握数据的极小一部分，且整个处理窗口仅被压缩在短短数周之内。 - **月球三角飞行器影像**：由登月舱宇航员拍摄，记录了悬停于月球和宇航员上方的三角形飞行器，经 UAP 特遣队官方审查确认为真实影像。 - **解密指令的执行阻力**：联邦机构仅在短短数周的窗口期内交出极小比例的档案，绝大多数深层机密仍被扣押未公开。 --- ### [28:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1715s) 为什么 80 亿部智能手机拍不到清晰的 UAP？ 主持人提出了一个困扰公众已久的尖锐质疑：如果外星生命或 UAP 真实存在，在当今全球拥有约 80 亿部智能手机的世界里，若有飞行器坠毁在普通人的后院，按常理五分钟内就会被拍下并传遍 TikTok；就像当年新泽西州（New Jersey）上空出现疑似无人机编队时，几分钟内社交网络就充斥着现场视频与热烈讨论。面对“如果真有东西，为何至今没有一张无可争议的高清民用手机照片”的疑问，Dan Farah 解释称，近年来流出的高质量军方数据，正是因为战斗机雷达与尖端传感系统的飞跃式升级才捕捉到了这极少的一部分。 谈及外星文明是否“故意让人看见”，Dan 认为，以对方展现出的超越常理的技术水平，若他们不想被看见，人类绝对不可能察觉分毫；因此现有目击事件表明他们出于某种意图在主动展示存在。但 Dan 强调，试图推测其动机本身就是陷入了“人类中心主义”的思维陷阱——在对方眼中，人类可能只是一群无足轻重的“蚂蚁”。 --- ### [30:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1825s) “客厅里的蚂蚁”：人类裂变原子如何打破物种平衡 Dan 援引了 Hal Puthoff 在纪录片《揭秘时代》（*The Age of Disclosure*）中提出的生动比喻：在你后院树丛下的蚂蚁可能繁衍了无数代，你每天从旁边走过，既不会刻意躲避它们，也完全不在意它们的存在；但如果有一天，这群蚂蚁突然发生了技术突变，学会了破解门锁并长驱直入、成群结队出现在你的客厅中央，它们便立刻从无害的背景变成了必须严加审视的“麻烦”。 过去 80 年间，人类这个充满暴虐与战争倾向的物种经历了不可思议的技术大爆发：在漫长的历史长河中科技几乎停滞，却在短短数十年间攻克了原子裂变、掌握了核武器技术，甚至建立起绝密部门打捞坠毁的非人类飞行器并试图进行逆向工程。Dan 认为，正是因为人类的技术突破正在逼近他们的能力门槛，这群“后院的蚂蚁”突然闯入了高级文明的客厅，才引来了非人类智能对人类核进程的高度警戒——从全球各地的核弹发射井、战略武器基地，到铀矿开采场和精炼厂，几乎全天候笼罩在 UAP 的密切监视之下。 --- ### [32:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1925s) 苏联基地失控倒计时与“核诱饵”战术 Hal Puthoff 揭露了一起发生于冷战时期苏联的惊心动魄的真实特情。在白俄罗斯境内的别洛科罗维奇（Belokorovich / Belokorovichi）洲际弹道导弹基地，一架飞碟形 UAP 突然出现在基地上空并持续悬停数小时。在现场没有任何军官触碰控制按钮、没有任何人输入发射密码的情况下，地下指挥所的控制面板突然全部自动亮起，核导弹系统竟被强制启动并进入了实战发射倒计时程序。整个基地陷入了长达 15 秒令人生畏的绝对瘫痪与失控状态，军方对己方的战略核武库完全失去了控制。 Hal 指出，西方情报界很早就注意到了外星飞行器对核设施的强烈偏好。为了验证并利用这一规律，情报界与军方的核心团队曾秘密执行过一项大胆的“钓鱼测试”：他们故意在极小半径的地理区域内高度集中大量核资产，人为制造出一个巨大的“核足迹磁铁”。实验结果完全证实了这一假设——高浓度的核资产成功将 UAP 吸引至预定空域，从而使军方掌握了有效“诱捕/引诱”UAP 出面的特定环境条件。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: UAP 与核资产交互及诱捕机制 accDescr: 展示核技术发展如何引来非人类智能的监视，以及军方如何将其作为诱饵吸引 UAP subgraph Evolution ["人类科技突破"] A["裂变原子与核技术突破"] --> B["军方逆向工程坠毁残骸"] B --> C["从'后院蚂蚁'转变为威胁威胁源"] end subgraph Interaction ["异常干预事件"] C --> D["监视核设施与铀精炼基地"] D --> E["苏联核基地导弹倒计时被强制激活 15 秒"] end subgraph MilitaryTactic ["情报部门应对策略"] E --> F["确认高浓度核足迹具备强引力"] F --> G["集中部署战略核资产作为'诱饵'"] G --> H["成功诱导 UAP 现身并记录数据"] end ``` --- ### [34:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2045s) 爱因斯坦相对论、曲速引擎与有效光速改造 当主持人提到星际旅行在传统物理学上的绝望尺度时——例如距地球最近的半人马座阿尔法星（Alpha Centauri）相隔超过 4 光年（约 24 万亿英里），即便以目前人类根本无法企及的 10% 光速飞行也需耗费 40 年——Hal Puthoff 从理论物理的角度给出了截然不同的解答。作为资深量子物理学家，Hal 指出，如果深入研究广义相对论底层的时空几何，就会发现物理学允许通过修改“时空度规”（space-time metric）来改变局域的“有效光速”。 Hal 强调，在广义相对论的严谨框架下，虫洞（Wormholes）与曲速引擎（Warp Drives）绝非缺乏根据的科幻畅想，主流物理学专著中对此早有详尽的数学论证。只要改变特定路径上的时空结构，飞行器在不违背局部狭义相对论速度上限的前提下，其“有效速度”可以被放大数万倍，从而在极短时间内跨越星际距离。目前人类所欠缺的绝不是理论方程式，而是在材料科学与高能工程上缺乏实现这种时空重构的物理载体。 --- ### [36:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2177s) 时空泡与跨介质无阻力航行 针对主持人的另一个物理学质疑——飞行器若以亚光速在宇宙中飞驰，哪怕撞上一粒鹅卵石大小的微尘，也会瞬间引发如同核爆般的毁灭性灾难——Hal Puthoff 借用“冲浪者的海浪”做了解释：当曲速系统运行时，它在飞行器前方主动排开并操纵空间滑移，迎面而来的微小天体或岩石会被时空本身的褶皱自然推向两侧，根本不会产生物理碰撞。 Dan Farah 进一步用通俗的语言将这种飞行模式具象化为一种“时空孤立泡”： > “飞行器在周围极小的局域范围内扭曲了时空，在其外部形成了一个包裹着超高能量的泡状场（Bubble）。这个泡将飞船与外部的物理现实彻底剥离，导致外在环境对内部载具毫无物理作用力。” 正是因为这种独特的时空泡机制，UAP 展现出了人类飞行器无法理解的“跨介质航行能力”（Transmedium Travel）——它们能够在真空宇宙、稠密大气层与深邃海水之间畅行无阻，在全速切入水面时甚至不激起一丝水花、不产生任何空气激波，因为飞行器内部始终处于自成一体的独立时空维度之中。一旦理解了这一物理机制，超光速跨星际航行在逻辑上便完全成立。 ### [37:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2245s) 生产力工具与商务管理工具推荐 主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）分享了他个人投资并由节目赞助的语音转文字工具 Wispr Flow。他提到，尽管自己在键盘打字上花费的时间减少了 50%，整体工作效率却提升了 100%。这款工具不仅拥有极高的语音识别准确率，还能在用户中途改变措辞时自动纠偏。当他在公司的 Slack 频道询问团队是否需要专业版时，半数员工在一小时内便申请安装。随后，史蒂芬还介绍了客户关系管理软件 Pipedrive，指出对于管理多个销售团队的创始人而言，Pipedrive 能够将复杂繁琐的销售流程转化为直观可视的实时管道，清晰呈现每笔交易的推进阶段与后续行动。 --- ### [39:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2368s) 高级科技坠毁悖论与地缘政治沉默 史蒂芬向嘉宾抛出了一个核心悖论：这些不明异常现象（UAP）展现出的物理特性和先进科技远超人类理解，但如果它们真的如此高级，为何在地球上似乎频繁发生坠毁？量子物理学家哈尔·普霍夫（Dr. Hal Puthoff）对此给出了令人意外的澄清。他指出，某些被人类回收的飞行器并非因事故坠毁，而是被“直接遗弃在沙漠中”，其性质更像是一种刻意留下的“礼物或捐赠”，这一现象背后的动机至今仍是未解之谜。而在确实发生坠毁的案例中，普霍夫推测人类军方的电磁脉冲（EMP）或激光脉冲技术可能干扰了这些飞行器的控制系统，从而导致了意外坠落。 随后，探讨转向了国际政治层面：为何世界上其他大国没有率先公开类似的外星证据？导演丹·法拉（Dan Farah）认为答案十分简单——美国的盟友在安全和情报事务上一贯紧跟美国的步伐；而以中国和俄罗斯为代表的战略对手，其社会治理结构与信息环境截然不同。对于普京或最高决策层而言，主动向公众解密并无任何地缘政治或政治利益可言。既然没有公开的动力，这种心照不宣的沉默便成为了必然的国际现状。 - **非坠毁回收现象**：部分地外飞行器并非坠毁，而是完好无损地被遗弃在荒漠地带，疑似被刻意“赠予”。 - **人造脉冲干扰**：人类的高功率电磁脉冲与定向激光脉冲可能破坏了 UAP 的悬浮或控制系统，引发实质性坠机。 - **盟友与对手的考量**：盟国严格遵从美国主导的情报保密协议，而中俄等对手国家缺乏公开信息的内部舆论压力与战略动机。 --- ### [40:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2441s) 宇宙生命概率、埃隆·马斯克与未公开特殊访问项目（USAP） 在探讨外星生命存在的宏观概率时，史蒂芬列举了天文学数据：截至 2026 年的一项统计，在 NASA 发现的 6,000 多颗系外行星中，有 45 颗位于适居带；全宇宙拥有约一万亿个星系，牛津大学的研究也认为可能有数十万颗行星具备孕育生命的条件。在概率论层面，人类是宇宙中唯一智慧生命的假说几乎在科学上站不住脚。然而，地外生命是否已经亲临地球，依然存在巨大问号。史蒂芬提到特斯拉与 SpaceX 创始人埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）的公开态度——马斯克以敢言著称，多次宣称如果银河系中有外星人，“如果有人该知道，那一定是我”，并指出拥有数千颗星链（Starlink）卫星的轨道网络从未遭遇过需要避开外星飞船的情况。 丹·法拉与哈尔·普霍夫对此进行了深入反驳。丹·法拉指出，像马斯克这样深度的航天领袖与顶级国防承包商，不可能在没有签署最高级别保密协议的情况下运作。在国家安全体系中，除了常规的“机密”（Classified）级别，还存在被称为“未公开特殊访问项目”（Unacknowledged Special Access Programs, 简称 USAP）的极端黑预算项目。法律明确规定，参与此类项目的人员必须在被问及时彻底否认其存在，无论掌握何种内幕，都只能回答“毫不知情”。因此，不能因为马斯克的公开言论就断定其公司或他本人在法律层面上拥有披露真相的自由。此外，法拉还驳斥了机构表态的可靠性：NASA 几十年来一直声称没有任何地外生命或 UAP 的证据，但就在不久前，联邦政府正式解密公布了一张 1972 年阿波罗登月任务期间悬停在上空的三角形飞行器照片，这证明机构的公开表态与其实际掌握的情报存在巨大脱节。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 美军与情报系统的保密层级与信息否认机制 accDescr: 展示常规机密项目与未公开特殊访问项目在法律要求和对外口径上的核心区别 subgraph StandardSecrecy ["常规保密体系 (Standard Classified)"] A["常规机密项目"] --> B["承认项目存在 / 限制具体技术细节"] end subgraph DeepBlackSecrecy ["深黑预算体系 (USAP)"] C["未公开特殊访问项目<br>(Unacknowledged SAP)"] --> D["法律强制要求否认存在"] D --> E["公开口径：彻底宣称不知情或毫无证据"] E --> F["承包商高管与顶级科研人员受法律约束缄口"] end ``` --- ### [43:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2614s) 智能生命是否与人类共存：公众民调与顶级安全官员的背书 对话随后深入到更加震撼的论点——这些非人类智慧生命是否早已在地球上与人类比邻而居。普霍夫此前曾提出过惊人观点：“它们并非偶尔造访的过客，而是拥有极其先进的技术，在人类身边隐秘共存。”这一观点得到了大量目击报告以及政府所掌握的实体物质样本的支撑。史蒂芬援引权威民意调查指出公众认知的转变：皮尤研究中心（Pew Research）的数据显示，65% 的美国人相信其他星球存在智慧生命，40% 的人认为军方报告的 UFO 很有可能是外星生命的证据；而 YouGov 的民调则显示，高达 47%（接近半数）的美国人认为外星人曾确定或极有可能访问过地球。 普霍夫强调，公众认知的转变并非凭空而来，而是得益于纪录片《披露时代》（*The Age of Disclosure*）中一系列无可挑剔的重磅证人。受访者包括前国家情报总监（DNI）詹姆斯·克拉珀（James Clapper）、现任重要职位的马可·卢比奥（Marco Rubio），以及大批退役海军战斗机飞行员、海军上将与将军。普霍夫坦言，如果说这一整套 UAP 叙事是一场骗局，那么公众就必须假设整个美国政府、军方以及情报界掌握着最高绝密权限的高层领导者们，出于某种不可理喻的荒谬动机在全体串通撒谎。面对这些资深决策者以真实身份发表的严肃证言，“全员造假”的概率微乎其微。 - **民意倾向**：约 65% 的美国公众认可外星智慧生命的存在，近半数受访者认为外星飞行器造访过地球。 - **顶级证人背书**：前国家情报总监詹姆斯·克拉珀与政要马可·卢比奥等人公开作证，证实基于绝密情报，UAP 现象真实存在且亟待解决。 - **逻辑反推**：若全盘否定其真实性，其前提是数十位国家安全顶级首脑在没有任何动机的情况下集体作伪证。 --- ### [45:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2727s) 误判质疑、实体残骸证据与不可阻挡的全面公开趋势 针对史蒂芬提出的质疑——这些官员和飞行员是否可能仅仅是看花了眼，将高空面罩的反光或空间错觉误判为异常飞行器？普霍夫与丹·法拉坚决排除了这种“集体误判”的假说。法拉表示，普通公众或许会把气象气球或视觉杂波当成 UFO，但在军方核心情报圈内，讨论的基础早已超越了模糊的目击视讯，而是基于“实体坠毁飞行器、非人类生物遗骸以及不可思议的高科技物质材料”。 法拉进一步透露，当前白宫与内阁高级成员正在推进一项前所未有的摸底行动：系统性定位分散隐藏在各联邦机构、军工承包商和军方部门内部的实物与档案证据，以便最高行政层能够直接调取。内阁在完全掌握这些物理证据后，将评估哪些内容可以在保障国家安全的前提下逐步解密，并制定向全球公众正式宣布的最终路线图。法拉与普霍夫一致认为，UAP 的全面解密已成为一种不可逆转的“既成事实”（fait accompli），公开只是时间问题。为了阐述这一现象的硬核证据链，对话最终引向了现代 UAP 史上最具标志性的真实交会事件——海军王牌飞行员大卫·弗拉沃指挥官（Commander David Fravor）在 2004 年与著名“尼米兹 Tic Tac 不明飞行物”的近距离正面交锋。 ### [46:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2812s) 尼米兹“Tic Tac”事件与人类技术的极限 讨论深入到著名的 2004 年“Tic Tac”UAP 事件。主持人提议将画面展示给观众，Dan Farah 随即详细剖析了这个案例的分量：目击者是大卫·弗雷弗指挥官（Commander David Fravor），一位海军王牌飞行员兼 Top Gun 精英，领导着整个航母打击群的飞行中队，在军界被视为传奇。更关键的是，除了弗雷弗的肉眼直击，还有多个先进的军方数据采集系统同时记录下了雷达与遥测数据，证实该物体的物理存在绝非幻觉。这个不明飞行物先是悬停在海面上空，随后近乎瞬间拉升至 80,000 英尺的高空——那已经是大气的边缘、太空的门槛，并且它在整个下午反复做出这种匪夷所思的机动。 从物理学角度来看，完成这种机动所需的能量堪称“疯狂（bonkers）”。人类目前在科学与工程上根本无法在局部狭小的飞行器空间内制造并释放如此庞大的能量。Dan Farah 顺着这个逻辑推演：如果最终得出一个不可思议的结论——这些飞行器并非来自非人类智能生命，而是人类某一部分科学家在 2004 年或更早就攻克了这种技术，那将比承认“地外生命早已存在”更加令人震惊。因为那意味着某个隐秘的人类集团在技术上直接超越全人类数千年，而且在随后的几十年里竟然没有将其投入任何公开应用或造福人类。 - **目击与仪器双重验证**：大卫·弗雷弗指挥官与雷达、红外等多套数据系统同时捕捉到了 Tic Tac 的极限动态。 - **极端物理表现**：该物体在海平面与 80,000 英尺（太空边缘）之间实现瞬时垂直位移，并在同一空域持续重复这一机动。 - **能量悖论**：在当前人类物理学架构下，不存在任何局部供能系统能在单架飞行器中产生如此量级的瞬时能量。 --- ### [48:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2913s) 跨介质现象与手机拍摄不清的科学机理 面对主持人“单一事件是否可能存在其他解释”的质疑，Dan Farah 指出，不能脱离大背景去看待个案。自二战以来，由极高信誉度军方人员记录的异常报告层出不穷：二战时期的战斗机飞行员就曾屡次目睹被称作“富战机（Foo Fighters）”的神秘发光光球与飞机编队并排行行；而现代海军舰艇的船员则目睹这些不明飞行器以难以置信的速度扎入海中，并在水下高速巡航。人类目前最先进的潜艇水下航速仅在每小时 50 英里左右，而这些不明物体在水下的巡航速度高达数百英里甚至数千节。这证明它们具备真正的“跨介质（transmedium）”航行能力，能在太空、大气层与深海之间毫无阻碍地自由穿梭。Hal Puthoff 对此补充表示，虽然人们总会怀疑是不是声纳系统的误读或伪影，但在各种不同环境和严苛条件下重复出现的观测数据，迫使科学界必须承认这是一种物理现实。 随后主持人抛出了一个大众普遍存在的困惑：既然这些飞行器如此活跃，为什么当代人手一部的智能手机从未拍下一段清晰的 4K 视频？Dan Farah 引用了纪录片《披露时代》（*The Age of Disclosure*）中由 Hal Puthoff 及其他物理学家给出的原理解释：这类飞行器通过在机身周围形成“曲速气泡（warp bubble）”或局域时空畸变来进行推进。这个时空屏障本身会极大程度地扭曲光线。用手机拍摄处于活跃推进状态下的 UAP，就如同站在水池上方俯拍池底游动的锦鲤——透过折射的水面，拍出的画面注定是模糊、变形且失真的。只有在气泡关闭的极罕见瞬间，才可能记录下其原本清晰的外轮廓，而大部分公开流传的影像往往都受到了这种时空介质扭曲的严重干扰。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: UAP 观测与成像畸变机制 accDescr: 展示 UAP 在不同介质中的航行能力以及时空曲速气泡对常规光学成像造成的折射与畸变过程。 subgraph Operation["跨介质运行特性"] A["太空 / 轨道环境"] --> B["大气层 / 瞬间垂直高机动"] B --> C["深海 / 数百节超高速潜航"] end subgraph Distortion["曲速气泡与光学观测"] D["UAP 动力系统激活"] --> E["产生时空扭曲屏障（Warp Bubble）"] E --> F["穿透光线发生折射与相位畸变"] F --> G["常规相机/手机拍摄成像模糊与变形"] end Operation -.-> Distortion ``` --- ### [50:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3024s) NASA 报告的定调内幕与机密证据的不可辩驳性 关于 NASA 发布的独立研究团队 UAP 报告声称“未发现外星人存在的确凿证据”，Dan Farah 揭示了官僚体系的运行逻辑：在任何庞大的国家机构中，只有极少数核心层掌握全部真相，绝大多数外围人员和科学家则被刻意蒙在鼓里。Dan 在拍摄纪录片时采访了 NASA UAP 工作组成员迈克·戈尔德（Mike Gold）。戈尔德直言不讳地指出，NASA 的调查从一开始就预设了政治结论——他们绝不能得出一份“NASA 几十年来向公众隐瞒了关键信息”的调查报告，因此其既定目标就是引导向“此处无可奉告（nothing to see here）”的安全结论。戈尔德甚至透露，团队在调查中曾获得一张极为清晰的月球上空三角形飞行器照片，但在最终报告定稿前，他们被高层明确勒令将其剔除。 当主持人询问“是否有可能这一切都与外星人无关”时，Hal Puthoff 指出，“外星人（alien）”一词带有强烈的科幻文化色彩，但无可辩驳的证据表明，具有高度先进技术的某种智能生命形式是切实存在的，至于它们的具体来源和本质，依然是科学上正在梳理的未知数。Dan Farah 结合自己接触军情高层的经历补充道，许多因为保密协议而无法在镜头前露面的情报界与军方要员，在不公开的私下交谈中向他坦白了完全相同的事实：在最高机密层级上，存在着“如白昼般清晰”的证据。这包括在曲速气泡暂时关闭状态下近距离拍摄到的非人类飞行器高清影像、实际回收的硬件技术残骸，以及非人类的生物遗骸。这些来自不同部门、在政治派系和利益上毫无交集甚至互不对付的高级将领与情报官，给出的描述完全吻合，使得“误读或造假”的解释在概率上彻底失效。 - **NASA 调查的政治局限**：迈克·戈尔德证实，调查小组被施加了结论导向的政治限制，严禁公布月球上空的三角飞行器等敏感照片。 - **非公开机密证据**：高层证实存在关闭动力屏障时拍摄的高清特写视频、实体坠毁残骸及生物标本。 - **情报交叉验证**：跨军种、跨部门且无私人交情的数十位高级官员，独立给出了完全一致的情报描述。 --- ### [53:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3192s) “缺乏想象力”的战略突袭与公众承受力迷思 面对主持人提到“目击证人往往容易受到记忆和心理偏差误导”的质疑，Dan Farah 提到了纪录片中两位政治与意识形态完全对立的重要人物——参议员马可·卢比奥（Marco Rubio）与前国家情报总监吉姆·克拉珀将军（General Jim Clapper）。两人在拥有同等最高机密知情权的前提下，提出了完全一致的深刻警告：人类心理存在一个根深蒂固的认知盲区，即“无法为自己未曾亲眼见过或体验过的事物做好准备与应对”。卢比奥在采访中指出，美国历史上几乎所有重大的情报灾难都源于“缺乏想象力（lack of imagination）”。 卢比奥列举了具体的历史教训：在珍珠港事件发生前，军方高层由于缺乏想象力，认定日军绝不可能研发出能在珍珠港浅水航道中正常投掷且不触底的鱼雷，直到灾难降临；在“9·11”恐怖袭击之前，安全部门也无法想象恐怖分子会潜入本土、进入正规飞行学校学习驾驶大型客机，并将其作为自杀式袭击的武器。这种认知局限导致了毁灭性的“战略突袭（strategic surprise）”，彻底改写了历史进程。卢比奥等人认为，在 UAP 议题上，国家必须抢在灾难性突袭之前建立战略前瞻，绝不能被动等待中国抢先逆向工程攻克该技术并用于战争，或者等待非人类智能做出不可预测的行动时，才狼狈地向公众解释早已知情的一切。最后，谈及几十年来掩盖真相的经典借口——“公众心理承受力不足以接受真相”，Dan 和 Hal 反驳称这完全是信息把关人（gatekeepers）的臆想；现实表明，哪怕纪录片揭露了如此震撼的机密细节，社会大众并没有陷入恐慌或失去理智，普通人完全有能力承受并消化这些基本事实。 - **历史战略突袭的根源**：珍珠港事件与 9·11 恐怖袭击均是由于安全系统缺乏想象力，无法预判前所未见的战术威胁。 - **地缘技术竞赛风险**：如果在战略上保持漠视，可能导致竞争对手（如中国）率先攻克 UAP 逆向工程技术，从而打破全球战略平衡。 - **打破社会恐慌论**：负责保密的“遗留项目（Legacy Program）”内部人士如今也承认，大众获悉部分披露事实后并未引发骚乱，证明公众认知具备承受真相的韧性。 ### [56:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3360s) 转向深信不疑的决定性时刻：高层政要与超越人类的物理学 当主持人问及究竟是哪一个具体故事彻底说服了他们时，丹·法拉（Dan Farah）坦言，并不存在某一件单一的孤立事件，而是私底下当面向他透露真相的军方、政府以及情报界高官人数之多，带来了排山倒海的说服力。这些极高层级的人士在私密场合面对面告诉他，在涉密级别上，他们“百分之百确定这是真实的”。例如，法拉曾在同一天分别采访了马尔科·卢比奥（Marco Rubio）参议员与克斯汀·吉利布兰德（Kirsten Gillibrand）参议员。这两位重量级政要不仅深度参与了纪录片的拍摄，接受了长时间的专访，更是看着他的眼睛直言：这是有史以来制作过的最重要的纪录片，将这些信息以审慎、负责任的方式公之于众，让大众清醒认识到正在发生的一切至关重要。法拉直言，听到这样的话，你根本不可能“当作没听过”。 对于量子物理学家哈尔·普特霍夫（Hal Puthoff）博士而言，让他从不可知论彻底转向确信存在非人类智能的转折点，完全在于技术本身。展现在他们眼前的科技先进到了令人咋舌的地步，使他从本质上确信，无论是美国本土还是任何敌对大国，都绝无可能制造出这样的飞行器。制造这些飞行器的存在，对物理学定律的掌握显然远超人类认知上限。面对这种科技与性能展示，在逻辑上别无解释，只能得出结论：某种科技远在人类之上的智慧生命正活跃于此。 ### [57:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3466s) 流行文化投射与证据筛选：为何公众总是只能看到“模糊的视频”？ 面对外界传得沸沸扬扬的传闻、假录像以及早年流行的麦田怪圈，普特霍夫毫不犹豫地承认，流传的报告中有极大部分完全是无稽之谈。主持人指出一种常见的怀疑论观点：目击者对所谓外星人的描述，似乎总是精准契合当时时代的流行文化——比如 20 世纪 50 年代科幻电影大热后人们便纷纷目击“飞碟”，而 80 年代在惠特利·斯特里伯（Whitley Strieber）的《圣体》（Communion）等畅销书普及后，大家又开始频繁报告“小灰人”（Gray Aliens）。这种高度的同步性让人不得不怀疑所谓目击仅仅源自人类的大脑臆想与社交传播。 普特霍夫回应称这种怀疑非常合情合理，大量的公众目击报告完全可以当作社交媒体或大众心理的产物直接搁置一边。然而，一旦真正聚焦于实打实回收的实体技术残骸与生物实体证据时，这便绝对不再能用所谓的“社会群体性传染”一笔带过。 随后对话聚焦于大众的核心困惑：为何公众看到的永远是像“Tic Tac”那样黑白模糊、距离遥远且难以分辨的影像？在如今大街小巷遍布高清监控、人人手持智能手机的时代，哪怕有人在街头跌倒都会被多角度拍得清清楚楚，为什么官方或民间从未拿出一份清晰展现不明潜水/飞行器（Transmedium Craft）在水面自由穿梭出入的高清视频？ ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 证据可信度分层与流出障碍 accDescr: 展示了公众日常目击视频与军方绝密高清晰度证据之间的鲜明对比及解密阻力。 subgraph Public["公众可见领域"] A["大众网络目击 / 流行文化投射"] -->|大多为误认或造假| B["予以剔除 / 视为杂音"] C["公开解密视频（如 Tic Tac）"] -->|去密处理 / 远距离传感器| D["黑白模糊影像、公众质疑"] end subgraph Classified["军方与情报界内部"] E["高清晰度实体证据"] --> F["近距离拍摄（如三角形飞行器录像）"] E --> G["回收残骸物理分析 & 生物体实体"] F & G -->|最高保密级别管控| H["被各联邦机构与军种深度扣押"] end H -.->|白宫调查组施压调取| C ``` ### [59:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3572s) 绝密录像与白宫博弈：官僚机构对真相公开的阻力 法拉反驳指出，已经有多名内部人士在摄影机前明确作证，他们亲眼目睹过毫无争议的军方涉密高清视频。例如调查负责人杰伊·斯特拉顿（Jay Stratton）在深涉该领域之初所看的第一段绝密影像：一架巨大的三角形飞行器长时间悬停在核武器设施上空，停留时间长到足以让空军安保人员掏出随身携带的 VHS 便携摄像机进行稳定而详尽的近距离录像。这类铁证确实存在，但至今仍处于严密封锁中。 对于这些证据何时能得见天日，法拉表示相关流程正在推进中，斯特拉顿等人正协助本届白宫行政团队在各部门中锁定核心证据的藏匿地点，以评估能否安全解密。当被问及是否信任政府行政当局全面公开信息时，法拉明确指出： - **核心矛盾不在于白宫想不想解密**：问题不是现任政府是否愿意公布，而在于掌控具体情报的联邦情报机构和军方各分支部门，是否甘愿把封存的证据完整上缴给白宫。 - **深层官僚机构的强烈抵抗**：军方和机构目前正在极其激烈地抵抗移交证据，推诿与设障屡见不鲜。 - **锁定“守门人”**：斯特拉顿凭借长达 16 年的一线深耕，熟知谁在哪个具体部门把守机密大门、关键证据究竟以何种形式存放在何处。调查小组目前正在执行一项高难度的“事实调查任务”（Fact-Finding Mission），全力撬开信息通道。 ### [01:02:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3725s) 公开后的世界图景：科技大爆发、宇宙认知与宗教信仰的接纳 主持人提问：假若有朝一日，所有的外星飞船残骸、生物实体乃至涉密档案全盘公布，人类世界将会发生怎样的剧变？普特霍夫描绘了一幅令人振奋的技术与哲学跃迁图景： 1. **引发空前的科技爆炸**：公众和科学界一旦确凿知晓这些超越认知的底层技术真实存在，反重力推进技术将获得突破，全新的清洁能源形态可能在顷刻间终结全球能源危机，甚至带领人类文明迈入深空恒星际旅行时代。 2. **人类心理与宇宙认知的范式转移**：人类将彻底告别孤芳自赏的时代，从原本自视“宇宙中唯一的智慧物种”，转变为清醒认识到“这是一个充满生命的广袤宇宙”。 3. **主流宗教与教义的包容弹性**：面对地外文明对宗教神学的冲击，嘉宾们认为各宗教教义都会顺理成章地将其纳入框架中。梵蒂冈教廷早在数年前就已走在前面公开表态，指出上帝的造物与宇宙浩瀚无垠，没有任何教义能限定全能造物主的创造能力。天主教传统对地外生命的存在早已持相当积极的接纳态度。 在随后的个人信仰闲聊中，法拉提到自己母亲是爱尔兰人，自幼在天主教主日学校（CCD）长大，深信上帝存在；普特霍夫也确认自己是一名虔诚的天主教徒。当主持人询问这是否意味着他们相信外星人也是上帝造物的一部分时，两人皆表示这完全符合他们的世界观，从统计学和信仰角度来看都极具合理性。 话锋转回现实政治，法拉透露当下华盛顿正在上演极其讽刺的一幕：那些数十年间负责严防死守真相的各部门“守门人”（Gatekeepers），现在反而陷入了巨大的恐惧之中。他们害怕主动向白宫如实汇报自己掌握的机密，因为他们极度担心自己会被外界扣上历史罪人的帽子，成为整场巨大遮掩丑闻中首当其冲的“反派角色”。白宫、国家情报总监（DNI）以及国防部目前正在与这股心理阻力进行高度微妙的权力斡旋。 ### [01:04:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3889s) 国会向军情系统释放宽免信号与内部打压现状 近期国会与相关调查力量正向军方和情报界传递明确信号：当前的追查绝非一场“猎巫行动”（witch hunt），也无意惩罚任何曾参与守门或保守秘密的人员。他们的首要目标是打消知情者的顾虑，鼓励大家主动站出来，查明真相究竟藏在何处以及关键证据存放在何方。 当主持人问及此前提到有人因知情而感到生命受到威胁，现实中是否真有人因发声而遭到报复时，Hal Puthoff 指出，最普遍且立竿见影的报复手段是直接吊销安全审查许可（security clearances）或阻断职业晋升途径，情报界内部有许多人都遭遇过这种隐形打压。 其中最典型的公开案例就是吹哨人戴维·格鲁施（David Grusch）。格鲁施曾详细列举了自己因向上级反映 UAP 核心数据而遭到系统性排挤、剥夺权限和毁掉职业生涯的各种遭遇。正是由于受到的打压过于严重，他不得不正式向情报界监察长（ICIG）提出紧急申诉，而监察长最终认定其提交的信息“可信且紧急”，具有极高的严肃性与调查价值。 - 国会与调查人员正试图通过承诺“免责与不追责”，打破长期以来的信息壁垒，鼓励知情者携实证出面。 - 对吹哨人的打压往往从体制内的合法程序切入，例如撤销涉密许可、职业冷冻以及心理施压。 --- ### [01:06:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=3983s) 绝密“遗留项目”的隐秘运行与生死威胁 关于更极端的生命威胁，Dan Farah 透露，尽管目前无法完全确证是否有人直接因此丧命，但确实有许多人曾收到过明确的死亡恐吓。发出这些威胁的并非普通官僚，而是深度卷入所谓“遗留项目”（Legacy Program）的核心人员，这群人顽固地认为相关证据绝对不能公之于众。 这个“遗留项目”由美国政府内部的部分极度封闭分支以及核心国防承包商（defense contractors）共同把持。该项目被公认为特别准入项目（SAP）的终极形态，完全处于国家常规监管与数字网络之外（off the grid）。他们手中掌握着过去 80 年间积累的坠毁飞船碎片、完整残骸乃至非人类生物遗骸的第一手硬核证据。对于他们而言，没有任何动机去泄露信息，坚不可摧的隔绝机制也让外部黑客和审查无从下手。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 遗留项目运作与保密壁垒结构 accDescr: 展示绝密遗留项目的构成、核心资产以及对外部发声者的威慑机制 subgraph Core ["绝密遗留项目 (Legacy Program)"] direction TB Gov["美国政府极密分支部门"] DefCon["核心国防承包商"] Data["80年核心资产：坠毁飞船材料与生物遗骸"] Gov <--> DefCon Gov --> Data DefCon --> Data end subgraph Threats ["对外控制与威慑机制"] direction TB Revoke["行政打压：吊销涉密权限、阻断晋升"] LifeThreat["极端威慑：人身安全威胁、死亡恐吓"] end subgraph Targets ["承受压力的知情者"] Whistleblowers["军情系统吹哨人 (如 David Grusch)"] end Core -->|"下达封口指令"| Threats Threats -->|"施加于"| Targets ``` --- ### [01:07:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4052s) 中情局资助的星门计划：远距离超感官知觉研发 面对主持人关于“政府是否有秘密能守得密不透风”的质疑，话题转向了中情局历史上著名的绝密实验——“遥视”（Remote Viewing）。Hal Puthoff 回顾了他在 20 世纪 70 年代受聘于斯坦福研究所（SRI）期间的经历。当时，中情局发现苏联正斥资数百万美元在顶级科研机构秘密研究“超感官知觉”（ESP），担心美国落入技术下风，因此主动找上门来。 中情局最初抱有一种怀疑但防备的心态，只拨了五六万美元的微薄预算，希望科学家能够证明这纯属伪科学，好彻底打消顾虑。然而实验不仅没有推翻它，反而发现这种能力就像艺术天赋或体育技能一样真实存在且可被训练。该项目随后迅速升级为长达二十多年、耗资数百万美元的秘密行动，即广为人知的“星门计划”（Project Stargate）。他们甚至在米德堡（Fort Meade）的美军情报与安全司令部训练陆军情报军官掌握遥视技能，使人能够坐在封闭房间内，仅凭心念“看”到千里之外的目标动态。 - 70 年代由于苏联在心智物理学领域的军备竞赛刺激，中情局正式立项开展超感官知觉评估。 - 经过科学培训，部分军事情报人员能够系统化复现这一能力，并直接服务于海外高价值军事情报搜集。 --- ### [01:09:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4196s) 非洲坠机搜寻与卡特总统的事实印证 为证明遥视在实战中的惊人精确度，Puthoff 分享了一起极其机密的实操案例：一架令中情局极度渴望获取的苏联战机在非洲某国境内失事坠毁，由于飞行员中途弹射逃生，飞机失去控制后一直滑翔至燃油耗尽，美国当时的间谍卫星完全无法搜寻到残骸落点。 在绝望之际，情报部门调动了空军与 Puthoff 实验室各一名顶尖遥视人员。面对茫茫非洲大陆的地图，两位专家直接在图纸上标出位置，中情局根据该标记迅速前往搜寻，发现飞机残骸竟就在所画红叉的 3 英里范围之内，精准度令人难以置信。Dan Farah 随即补充，前总统吉米·卡特在卸任后曾留下公开录音，亲口讲述了通过加利福尼亚州一位通灵人员提供精确经纬度，从而让间谍卫星在下一轨道周期立刻锁定非洲坠机地点的真实往事。 --- ### [01:11:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4295s) 白银期货预测与星门计划的去留之谜 面对“如果通灵能力是真的，为什么他们不用来发财”的普遍质疑，Puthoff 讲述了一项极具实战性的挑战实验：利用遥视预测白银期货市场的每日走势。当时有外部出资人表示，只要建立一套为期 30 天的预测项目，他愿意按照遥视者的预判实盘出资，并将收益的 10% 作为报酬。 为了给一所新建学校筹集资金，Puthoff 直接对学校董事会的 7 名普通成员进行了为期一个周末的“情报级遥视强化训练”。实验结果出奇惊人：在 7 名被测试的董事会成员中，有 6 人产出了极高质量的预判数据，成功看清了次日需要处理和看到的情境。在整整 30 天内，该项目在金融市场上净赚了 26 万美元，科研团队也如约拿到了 2.6 万美元的提成。 Dan Farah 指出，星门计划在实际应用中产出了大量极具行动价值的绝密军情，甚至促使 Puthoff 经常直接向时任中情局局长威廉·卡西（Bill Casey）进行面对面汇报。针对该项目如今是否依然存在的追问，Puthoff 回应称，即便该技术仍在中情局或国防情报局（DIA）的黑色预算下隐秘运作，外界也绝不可能听到风声，因为军方绝不会向潜在敌手暴露这种跨维度的情报获取方式；至于为何今天能够公开讨论早期历史，仅仅是因为相关档案在数十年后终于获得了官方解密。 ### [01:14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4456s) 星门计划（Stargate）的保密性与训练内幕 Hal Puthoff 确认，他早期的遥视（Remote Viewing）研究最初属于绝密级的特别存取项目（Special Access Program, SAP）。如今，公众已经可以在中央情报局（CIA）的公开阅览室（FOIA Reading Room）中查阅并调取解密档案。主持人对此提出强烈疑问：如果遥视真的能够洞察全球隐秘角落甚至预测未来，并且这套能力是可以被训练出来的，那么人类现有的社会认知与日常生活将被彻底颠覆。 针对“星门计划被公开后军方是否终止该项目”的疑问，Dan Farah 直言，认为美国政府会在项目公开后彻底停办遥视是极不现实的，“如果我是美国政府，只要它行之有效，我就绝不会停止”。他推测该项目仅仅是转入了更深的地底，转移到了其他情报机关继续运作。对于主持人的半开玩笑式提问“能不能现在就教我”，Hal 笑着透露，当年由他们培训的多位军事情报官员在退役后，确实已经在民间开设了相关的遥视训练课程。 - **档案状态**：早期的科研内容最初被核定为绝密特别存取项目（SAP），现在相关去密件可直接在 CIA 阅览室获取。 - **项目去向**：民间披露并未导致政府研究终结，外界普遍认为该职能被转入地下更隐秘的机构。 - **退役军官培训**：当年受训的军事情报人员离开军队后，已有部分人在民营领域传授成体系的遥视技巧。 --- ### [01:15:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4524s) 遥视演示、人类潜能与量子连接假说 Dan Farah 坦言，自己最初对遥视也嗤之以鼻，觉得这种事听起来就像美漫里编造的超能力情节。但随着在解密文件中看到官方对此投入的严肃程度，加上与 Hal Puthoff 深入交流，他的看法发生了根本转变。Dan 隐晦地透露，他后来私下结识了一位曾为美国政府效力的遥视人员，对方当面为他进行了一场演示，其精准程度让他大受震撼。针对主持人“如果有人能遥视并公开发布预言，岂不是会被全人类奉为神明或超级英雄”的疑问，Hal 纠正了这种认知：遥视并非罕见的神迹，而是深植于人类生理构造中的一种内在潜质。 Hal Puthoff 打比方指出，遥视就像学习弹钢琴一样，是一种人人可以通过后天练习掌握的技能。目前精神病学家与神经生理学家正结合量子力学与量子纠缠（Quantum Entanglement）展开探索，研究人类意识在脑结构之外如何运作。Dan Farah 补充道，遥视本质上可能代表着一种“量子连接”（Quantum Connection），它允许人类在物理结构之外投射心智之眼（Mind's eye）。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 量子意识与超常机体控制链 accDescr: 展示从量子纠缠理论到遥视感知，再到UAP载具意识控制的推导假说。 subgraph Mind ["心智与微观物理"] A["量子纠缠与意识理论"] --> B["超距心智之眼感知 (Remote Viewing)"] end subgraph Tech ["异常物理与设备影响"] B --> C["超导电磁多重屏蔽系统"] C --> D["微观量子芯片输出信号受扰动"] end subgraph Craft ["UAP 载具控制假说"] B --> E["无仪表盘/无物理操纵杆"] E --> F["非人智能体神经/意识直连驾驶"] end ``` --- ### [01:17:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4635s) 驾驶舱之谜与斯坦福量子芯片扰动实验 Dan Farah 指出，Hal Puthoff 的学术轨迹极其耐人寻味——先是主导星门计划研究人类意识潜能，随后深涉 UAP 现象。二者存在一个极具诱惑力的交叉点：多份回收非人飞船坠毁残骸的内部报告指出，许多被发现的飞行器内部根本没有任何物理控制面板或仪表盘，舱内除了一些座椅外几乎空无一物。这表明该飞行器极有可能是通过神经或心智意识直接联机驱动的。主持人借此探讨：如果是极先进的高等文明，为什么会派遣可能带有生物身体的乘员，而非纯粹的无人探测器？Hal 与 Dan 讨论认为，那些被回收的“乘员”或许并非有自我感知的高阶生命体，而是经过工程化合成制造的生物机械人偶。 为印证意识对物理实体的干预能力，Hal Puthoff 分享了他在斯坦福研究所（Stanford）主持的一项经典实验。当时他带着极大的怀疑态度，邀请了一位所谓“特异功能者”进行严格双盲测试。军方与研究团队使用了一块由美国海军研发用于探测夸克等基本粒子的极微小量子芯片，该芯片被包裹在严密的多重电屏蔽、磁屏蔽以及超导屏蔽层内部，按常规物理规则绝不可能受到任何外部物理干扰。然而在受试者的意识意念干预下，设备屏幕上原本规则平稳振荡的特征信号不仅被当场按停，随后还能根据指令以两倍频加速振荡，让在场依赖该仪器数据完成学业的研究生目瞪口呆。 - **控制面板缺失**：多宗坠毁回收残骸的现场纪录显示飞船无实体操纵杆或仪表，催生了“意识操纵飞船”的技术假说。 - **人造生物论**：机组乘员可能并非母星本土生物，而是高级文明流水线制造的工程化生物体（Manufactured Biological Life）。 - **斯坦福超导实验**：受试者在极深超导电磁屏蔽环境下，成功逆转并改变了高敏量子芯片的自然振荡波形。 - **美苏暗中交流**：由于担心冷战核心机密即便放在超导保险库内也可能被对方透视，在美苏关系缓和（Détente）时期，美苏两国的军方遥视专员甚至曾坐在一起交流彼此的实操经验与测试成果。 --- ### [01:19:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4787s) 审慎的怀疑论与历史性的“非孤立宣告” 主持人坦言自己生性多疑，虽然在概率上承认广袤宇宙必有其他生命存在，但面对“外星生命已经到访地球且被人类打捞”这一论断，他仍坚持保留意见，需要看到实实在在的硬核物理证据。Hal Puthoff 对此表示赞同，强调在普通人无法接触到绝密核心实证之前，秉持怀疑是唯一健康科学的态度。然而 Hal 也透露，随着美国现行保密档案的加速解密，这类铁证终将公之于众。 Dan Farah 指出，美国政府内部已经下达了高规格行政指令，要求联邦各部门与各军种清查并移交所有 UAP 证据以供去密评估。Dan 坚定地预言，公众不必永远等待泄密流言，在未来的批次中将会释放出更关键的档案，“我们终将迎来过去只在好莱坞科幻电影中才能见到的那一刻——在任的美国总统亲自走上新闻发布会的话筒前，向全人类庄严宣告：我们在宇宙中并不孤单。” --- ### [01:21:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4878s) 宇宙生命对人类自我定义与生存哲学的重构 针对“证实外星生命存在是否会改变生命意义”的终极命题，Hal Puthoff 与 Dan Farah 展开了哲学探讨。Hal 认为，一旦人类发现宇宙中遍布各种形态的生命形式，我们将被迫跳出狭隘的物种中心主义，重新审视“作为人类意味着什么”（What does it mean to be human）。人类将面临与其他智慧物种接触、互相学习乃至交流的宏大命题。Hal 动情地提到，自己已有 15 个孙辈，他由衷希望孩子们能在一个明知“宇宙充满了勃勃生机”的时代中成长。 Dan Farah 则援引了美国前总统罗纳德·里根（Ronald Reagan）在联合国大会上的著名演讲——里根曾指出，人类往往需要来自外部宇宙的共同挑战，才会意识到全人类休戚与共的共同点远大于彼此间微不足道的分歧，从而超越当下的地缘对抗。Dan 总结道，不论是 UAP 真相还是遥视现象的本质，都打破了现代西方经验主义所构建的世界观，迫使人们不得不谦卑地承认：人类当下所建立的这套现实现代科学体系，还远远算不上完备。 ### [01:23:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4992s) 对推翻固有认知的开放心态与内部调查真相 对话从对未知事物保持开放态度的讨论切入。主持人史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）提到，许多过去被断然否定或认为不可能的事情，很快就被事实证明是错误的；这种经历让他比十年前更加包容更多的可能性，甚至可能引发人类对待生命和万物态度的“全面复兴”。当被问及“你们二位是否也做好了随时认错的准备”时，制片人丹·法拉（Dan Farah）坦率地回顾了自己制作纪录片《披露时代》（*The Age of Disclosure*）之初的心态。 法拉透露，在项目启动之初，他完全做好了心理准备听到内部人员对他说：“听着，这一切全都是为了掩盖我们自己的机密项目。”在调查过程中，他甚至主动试图从受访者嘴里套出这样的结论，直接追问他们：“别装了，这其实就是某个‘黑项目’（Black Project）、某个‘未承认的特别访问项目’（Unacknowledged Special Access Program，简称 USAP），对吧？如果是这样，你干脆什么都别说就行。”然而令法拉感到不可思议的是，从始至终竟然没有一个人给出这样的托辞。相反，受访者们连连否认，表示事实“根本连边都没沾上”。这些给出斩钉截铁回答的人绝非泛泛之辈，而是来自参议院情报特别委员会（Senate Intelligence Committee）、参议院军事委员会（Senate Armed Services Committee）的高级成员，以及情报界与军方的高层领袖。如此高规格的一致证言，让任何人尝试将其轻描淡写为常规秘密武器试验的努力都变得难以立足。 ### [01:24:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=5059s) 特朗普解密指令、后续机密释放与媒体生态的转变 随着唐纳德·特朗普（Donald Trump）签署指示并公开了第一批 UAP（不明异常现象）调查报告，这场公众对话进入了全新的阶段。法拉爆料指出，来自政府内部的消息源明确告知他们，下一批核心证据预计将在未来 30 天左右公之于众。这将是一个滚动式的持续解密进程（Rolling Declassification Process），意味着在不久的将来会有更多实质性爆料被摆上台面。主持人高度肯定了法拉纪录片的价值，特别强调了其采访阵容的权威性与多元性——包括曾担任参议员、如今与特朗普紧密合作并出任要职的马可·卢比奥（Marco Rubio）、哈尔·普霍夫博士（Dr. Hal Puthoff）本人，以及军事情报界的其他关键人物。 法拉随后由衷感谢了独立播客和自媒体对这一边缘话题的深度呈现。他回顾道，在不久之前，整个社会的舆论生态仅由三四家主流电视广播网络和一小撮传统媒体精英所把持，普通公众的认知范围被严格框定。正是得益于现代自媒体平台对前沿、异见话题的深挖与扩散，公众的心智才得以挣脱传统框架的束缚，开始接纳更多原本被视作异想天开的可能性。 - **滚动解密进程**：政府内部消息人士证实，继特朗普第一波 UAP 报告发布后，下一批解密档案预计于约 30 天内陆续公布。 - **调查阵容覆盖面**：涵盖国会参议院情报与军事委员会领导层、现任高级官员（如马可·卢比奥）、物理学家哈尔·普霍夫及多位军方将领。 ### [01:25:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=5126s) 科学好奇心与当下最罕见的跨党派共识 巴特利特就自己挑选播客主题的初衷做出澄清。他强调，邀请嘉宾探讨超常议题绝不代表自己盲目相信其中所说的一切，而是单纯源于对公众关注焦点和未知事物的好奇心。他感慨道，人类社会需要对争议性话题和对立观点展现出更多的宽容度，并以自身为例谈到：“作为一名黑人商业人士，我自身的存在本身在过去也曾是一个极具争议性的概念。”正因如此，给予那些被视为打破常规的声音一席之地至关重要。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 华盛顿两党在UAP议题上的空前共识流程 accDescr: 展现从两党政治极化到在UAP国家安全与外星真相上达成完全一致的独特政治现象 subgraph Polarization["两党极度分裂现状"] A["民主党 (Democrats)"] B["共和党 (Republicans)"] A <-. 政治议题深度对立.-> B end subgraph Consensus["唯一例外：UAP 与非人类智能生命"] C["高度一致共识"] D["认同为当下最重大的国家安全与历史性课题"] E["推动滚动式解密与国会监督机制"] end Polarization ==> C C --> D C --> E ``` 法拉高度赞同这一观点，指出人类历史上每一次重大的科学突破，本质上都始于某个人对未知事物的纯粹好奇心。更关键的是，他在长时间华盛顿特区游说与调查中得出了一个令人震惊的现实结论：在当今美国政坛民主党与共和党几乎在所有社会议题上都陷入水火不容的极化背景下，UAP 与非人类智慧生命（Non-human intelligent life）问题居然成为了华盛顿唯一一个完全打破党派界限的“最强跨党派议题”（Most Bipartisan Issue）。双方高层一致达成共识，将其视作我们这个时代最重大、最严峻的课题。这一政治奇观本身，就已经说明了底层证据的份量之重，预示着未来的全面披露势在必行。随着对未解之谜的意犹未尽，本期对谈在“未完待续”的留白中圆满收尾。 ## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=0s) 我们在宇宙中并不孤单。 — 丹·法拉 > [10:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=633s) 你无法告诉盟友而不泄露给敌人 — 丹·法拉 > [10:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=633s) 今年从麻省理工学院（MIT）毕业的最聪明的天才们，压根不会想到能把自己的聪明才智投入到这上面。 — 丹·法拉 > [12:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=730s) 100% 相信非人类智慧生命早已来到地球，并在这里存在了很长时间 — 丹·法拉 > [19:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=1191s) 经过深思熟虑以及与妻子的长谈，我认定如果参加你的访谈，我就是在‘自寻死路’（forfeiting my life）。 — 特种作战指挥官 > [36:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2177s) 飞行器在周围极小的局域范围内扭曲了时空，在其外部形成了一个包裹着超高能量的泡状场（Bubble）。这个泡将飞船与外部的物理现实彻底剥离，导致外在环境对内部载具毫无物理作用力。 — 丹·法拉 > [40:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2441s) 如果有人该知道，那一定是我 — 埃隆·马斯克 > [43:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=2614s) 它们并非偶尔造访的过客，而是拥有极其先进的技术，在人类身边隐秘共存。 — 哈尔·普霍夫博士 > [01:14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4456s) 如果我是美国政府，只要它行之有效，我就绝不会停止 — 丹·法拉 > [01:23:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=4992s) 别装了，这其实就是某个‘黑项目’（Black Project）、某个‘未承认的特别访问项目’（Unacknowledged Special Access Program，简称 USAP），对吧？如果是这样，你干脆什么都别说就行。 — 丹·法拉 > [01:25:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM&t=5126s) 作为一名黑人商业人士，我自身的存在本身在过去也曾是一个极具争议性的概念。 — 史蒂芬·巴特利特 ## Mentioned 哈尔·普霍夫博士 (Dr. Hal Puthoff), 丹·法拉 (Dan Farah), 史蒂芬·巴特利特 (Steven Bartlett), 马可·卢比奥 (Marco Rubio), 罗伯特·比格洛 (Robert Bigelow), 杰伊·斯特拉顿 (Jay Stratton), 唐纳德·特朗普 (Donald Trump), 巴拉克·奥巴马 (Barack Obama), 埃隆·马斯克 (Elon Musk), 大卫·弗拉沃指挥官 (David Fravor), 戴维·格鲁施 (David Grusch), 詹姆斯·克拉珀 (James Clapper), 克斯汀·吉利布兰德 (Kirsten Gillibrand), 吉米·卡特 (Jimmy Carter), 罗纳德·里根 (Ronald Reagan), 迈克·戈尔德 (Mike Gold), 吉姆·拉卡茨基 (Jim Lacatski), 威廉·卡西 (Bill Casey), 《揭秘时代》 (The Age of Disclosure), 星门计划 (Project Stargate), 高级航空武器系统应用项目 (AAWSAP), 高级航空威胁识别计划 (AATIP), UAP 特遣部队 (UAP Task Force), 遗留项目 (Legacy Program), 中央情报局 (CIA), 国防情报局 (DIA), 国家安全局 (NSA), 美国国家航空航天局 (NASA), 美国能源部 (DOE), 美国联邦航空管理局 (FAA), 斯坦福研究所 (SRI), 比格洛航天公司 (Bigelow Aerospace), SpaceX, 星链 (Starlink), Wispr Flow, Pipedrive ## Video description He spent decades inside the world's most classified intelligence circles…now quantum physicist Dr. Hal Puthoff and filmmaker Dan Farah reveal why the greatest cover-up in human history may finally be unravelling. Dr. Hal Puthoff is a quantum physicist who has worked with the NSA and CIA, advised the US government on UAP science, and served as chief science advisor to Robert Bigelow of Bigelow Aerospace. Dan Farah is the Director and Producer of The Age of Disclosure, a landmark documentary produced in secret over three and a half years, featuring testimony from US Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Navy fighter pilots, admirals, generals, and senior intelligence community leaders. They explain: ◼️How the US government has been covering up non-human intelligent life since the 1940s ◼️ Why crashed UAP craft have allegedly been recovered — with non-human bodies inside ◼️How a secret "Legacy Program" operated for decades outside of Congressional and White House oversight ◼️Why UAPs have been repeatedly spotted hovering over US nuclear weapons sites... and switching off missiles ◼️How the US is entered a covert technology race with China and Russia to reverse-engineer non-human craft ◼️What Trump's historic declassification directive actually revealed (and what's still being hidden) ◼️Why Elon Musk may know more than he's legally allowed to say ◼️Why UAP is the most bipartisan issue in Washington right now 00:00:00 Intro 00:02:31 Answering the Biggest UAP Questions 00:06:08 Why A Former Insider Took UAP Claims Seriously 00:10:21 The Real Reason Officials Couldn’t Speak Publicly 00:14:04 What Allegedly Happened After Non-Human Craft Crashes 00:19:42 Are There Multiple Types Of Non-Human Beings? 00:22:34 What U.S. Presidents Are Actually Told About UAPs 00:24:17 Is The Public “Not Ready” For The Truth? 00:27:51 What Was Really Inside Trump’s UAP Report? 00:29:20 Why There Still Aren’t Clear iPhone Videos Of UAPs 00:38:09 Ads 00:40:12 If These Craft Are So Advanced, Why Do They Crash? 00:41:25 Does Elon Musk Know More Than He Admits? 00:45:44 Could All Of This Be A Massive Misinterpretation? 00:50:24 Why NASA Says UAPs Aren’t Aliens 00:56:42 The One Story That Convinced Him Something Real Exists 01:01:46 Ads 01:03:40 What Alien Life Would Mean For Religion And God 01:08:38 The CIA’s Remote Viewing Experiments Explained 01:14:26 Does The Stargate Program Still Exist Today? 01:18:20 Why Advanced Civilizations Might Still Use Pilots 01:22:03 Would Discovering Alien Life Change The Meaning Of Life? Follow Dan: X: @Dan_Farah (https://x.com/Dan_Farah) Instagram: @dan_farah (https://www.instagram.com/dan_farah/) Documentary website: www.theageofdisclosure.com The Diary Of A CEO: ◼️Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼️Buy The Diary Of A CEO book here - https://smarturl.it/DOACbook ◼️The 1% Diary is back - limited time only: https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt ◼️The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards (Second Edition): https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb ◼️Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt ◼️Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: Wispr - Get 14 days of Wispr Flow for free at https://wisprflow.ai/steven Pipedrive - https://pipedrive.com/CEO Bon Charge: https://boncharge.com/DOAC for 20% off [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-z0k5xu1hM)

[0:00] 丹·法拉: 我们在宇宙中并不孤单。 [10:33] 丹·法拉: 你无法告诉盟友而不泄露给敌人 [10:33] 丹·法拉: 今年从麻省理工学院（MIT）毕业的最聪明的天才们，压根不会想到能把自己的聪明才智投入到这上面。 [12:10] 丹·法拉: 100% 相信非人类智慧生命早已来到地球，并在这里存在了很长时间 [19:51] 特种作战指挥官: 经过深思熟虑以及与妻子的长谈，我认定如果参加你的访谈，我就是在‘自寻死路’（forfeiting my life）。 [36:17] 丹·法拉: 飞行器在周围极小的局域范围内扭曲了时空，在其外部形成了一个包裹着超高能量的泡状场（Bubble）。这个泡将飞船与外部的物理现实彻底剥离，导致外在环境对内部载具毫无物理作用力。 [40:41] 埃隆·马斯克: 如果有人该知道，那一定是我 [43:34] 哈尔·普霍夫博士: 它们并非偶尔造访的过客，而是拥有极其先进的技术，在人类身边隐秘共存。 [74:16] 丹·法拉: 如果我是美国政府，只要它行之有效，我就绝不会停止 [83:12] 丹·法拉: 别装了，这其实就是某个‘黑项目’（Black Project）、某个‘未承认的特别访问项目’（Unacknowledged Special Access Program，简称 USAP），对吧？如果是这样，你干脆什么都别说就行。 [85:26] 史蒂芬·巴特利特: 作为一名黑人商业人士，我自身的存在本身在过去也曾是一个极具争议性的概念。

[15:25] Dan Farah: You can't tell your friends without telling your enemies. [18:58] I'd be forfeiting my life if I participated in your interview. [24:17] Barack Obama: They're real, but I haven't seen them [40:41] I have no idea what you're talking about [51:46] Senator Marco Rubio: Lack of imagination leads to strategic surprise like Pearl Harbor, like 9/11. And sometimes strategic surprise changes the course of history.

[0:00] There has been an 80-year cover-up of [0:02] the existence of non-human intelligent [0:04] life covered up by elements of the US [0:05] government, but this past Friday the [0:07] [music] first tranche of evidence was [0:09] released to the public. [0:10] >> And the evidence is absolutely clear [0:12] that there is some form of life with [0:14] advanced technology. And they're all [0:16] over the place. But the people involved [0:19] in gatekeeping this information don't [0:20] think [music] the public can handle the [0:21] truth. [0:22] >> People have had their lives threatened. [0:24] >> of them are afraid to come forward [0:25] [music] and tell the White House what [0:26] they know. This has been kept from even [0:28] sitting presidents. And I've interviewed [0:30] high-level intelligence [music] [0:31] officials and government officials. And [0:33] there have been UAP crashes over the [0:35] years and in some cases the crashed [0:37] crafts had the bodies of non-humans in [0:39] them. And now we have people on ships [0:41] [music] seeing these things under the [0:43] water with seeing enough times under [0:45] enough different conditions that we just [0:47] have to accept that it is real. So what [0:49] exactly is inside this [music] report? [0:52] We have so many sightings, even access [0:55] to materials. And there's a number of [0:57] files, reports, video, and still [music] [1:00] images that were declassified. And the [1:02] most notable piece of evidence in there [1:04] is [music] this. [1:06] So I have so many questions. You're [1:07] probably familiar with this NASA report. [1:09] They essentially say that they don't [1:10] believe that these UAPs are aliens. Why [1:13] would NASA be lying? Is there a reason [1:15] why this stuff hasn't been captured on [1:16] like an iPhone? [music] Are they [1:18] currently living amongst us? [1:19] >> And then do you trust the Trump [1:20] administration to release [music] all of [1:22] the available information? [1:23] >> I think eventually we'll get to that [1:25] moment that we've all only seen in [1:26] movies where a sitting president steps [1:28] to a microphone and tells the world [1:29] we're not alone in the universe. [1:34] This is super interesting to me. My team [1:36] gave me this report to show me how many [1:37] of you that watch this show subscribe. [1:38] And some of you have told us, according [1:40] to this, that you are unsubscribed from [1:42] the channel randomly. So a favor to ask [1:44] all of you, please could you check right [1:46] now if you've hit the subscribe button. [1:47] If you are a regular viewer of the show [1:48] and you like what we do here. We're [1:50] approaching quite a significant landmark [1:52] on this show in terms of a subscriber [1:53] number. So if there was one simple, free [1:56] thing that you could do to help us, my [1:57] team, everyone here to keep this show [1:59] free, to keep it improving year over [2:02] year and week over week, it is just to [2:03] hit that subscribe button and to double [2:05] check if you've hit it. Anything I'll [2:06] ever ask of you. [2:07] Do we have a deal? [2:08] If you do it, I'll tell you what I'll [2:09] do. I'll make sure [2:11] every single week, every single month we [2:13] fight harder and harder and harder and [2:14] harder to bring you the guests and [2:15] conversations that you want to hear. I [2:17] stayed true to that promise since the [2:18] very beginning of The Diary of a CEO and [2:19] I will not let you down. Please help us. [2:22] Really appreciate it. Let's get on with [2:24] the show. [2:26] >> [music] [2:28] >> Dr. Harold, Dan, [2:31] I wanted to have a conversation with [2:32] both of you today because you are two of [2:34] the most popular voices online on this [2:36] subject of UAPs, which is unidentified [2:39] anomalous phenomena. Right. Exactly. It [2:41] has been in all the news recently [2:43] because Trump a couple of days ago [2:45] released 400 classified files containing [2:47] videos and photos and different reports [2:50] on this subject of UAPs. Now, I [2:55] don't have an opinion. I I honestly [2:57] haven't gone that far down the rabbit [2:58] hole on this subject, but I wanted to [3:00] have the conversation with both of you [3:01] because you do have opinions. So, [3:04] starting with you, Dan, [3:06] what is your background and as it [3:08] relates to this subject of UAPs, what is [3:10] it that you believe that most people [3:13] don't know or understand? My interest in [3:15] this topic comes from my childhood. And [3:17] so, over the years, I just I read every [3:19] book on the topic, watched every doc. I [3:21] always wish someone had made a super [3:23] serious, credible, sober documentary [3:26] that only interviews people who have [3:28] direct knowledge of this topic as a [3:30] result of working for the US government. [3:31] And so, got into producing as I was [3:34] getting access to high-level [3:35] intelligence officials and government [3:37] officials before even filmed, I really [3:39] quickly learned how serious and real the [3:42] situation is and how [3:44] serious it's treated behind the scenes. [3:46] And you know, I made this movie, The Age [3:48] of Disclosure, in secrecy over 3 and 1/2 [3:51] years. And I would say the headlines [3:54] that I learned that the average person [3:55] doesn't know is that there has in fact [3:59] been an 80-year cover-up of the [4:01] existence of non-human intelligent life. [4:03] It has been covered up by elements of [4:04] the US government since at least the [4:07] late '40s. Other nations have also [4:09] covered this up. And the other major [4:12] headline is that the people who within [4:15] the US government that have been [4:16] gatekeeping this, they've also been [4:18] involved in a high-stakes secret Cold [4:20] War race with adversarial nations like [4:22] China and Russia to reverse-engineer [4:24] this technology of non-human origin. And [4:26] And the stakes couldn't be higher. Those [4:28] are the two massive headlines. [4:30] And And I'm proud to say when the film [4:31] came out, it created a national [4:33] conversation at an at an unprecedented [4:36] level, and it led to President Trump [4:39] issuing this directive in the middle of [4:41] February. Super unprecedented historic [4:44] directive instructing federal agencies [4:46] to start declassifying evidence it has [4:49] they have of non-human intelligent life [4:52] and UAP. And then that process began [4:55] this past Friday. The first tranche of [4:57] evidence was released to the public. And [5:00] during the process of producing this [5:02] documentary, [5:03] who did you speak to? I got access to [5:06] the highest levels of government, [5:08] military, and intelligence community. My [5:09] interview subjects range from Secretary [5:11] Rubio, who's also our national security [5:13] advisor now, White House National [5:15] Security Council members, Navy fighter [5:18] pilots, admirals, generals, a former [5:20] Secretary of Defense, uh the leadership [5:23] of all the recent classified US [5:25] government UAP investigations. Every [5:28] single person is extremely credible. Hal [5:31] Hal was one of my interview subjects. [5:33] Hal's [5:34] one of the most senior scientist uh to [5:36] work on this topic for the US government [5:38] in classified projects. And him and all [5:41] these other people interviewed, they had [5:43] a lot of information they could legally [5:45] share [5:46] over the years, but they were always [5:47] discouraged from doing so, and they [5:48] never really had the opportunity to [5:50] comfortably do it. No one wanted to be [5:51] the one guy out on a limb [5:53] saying something extraordinary on CNN or [5:55] Fox or 60 Minutes and then being subject [5:57] to the the pushback and the ridicule. [6:00] And so, when I realized that, I I [6:02] started socializing a plan for how to [6:05] step out of the shadows arm in arm with [6:07] safety in numbers. I'll pick up on that [6:10] point now. We talked about safety in [6:11] numbers. How he he mentioned you there. [6:14] You're part of the documentary. I saw [6:15] you as well in the trailer of the [6:16] documentary. What is your background and [6:18] why what reference points are you [6:20] drawing on to speak on the subject of [6:22] UAPs and UFOs, etc.? I'm a quantum [6:25] physicist. I worked for the National [6:27] Security Agency for various uh [6:30] organizations in the intelligence [6:32] community like CIA and so on. And so, as [6:34] part of my technical work, uh I was also [6:37] a consultant, uh chief science advisor [6:39] to Robert Bigelow of Bigelow Aerospace. [6:43] He's really quite quite a titan. I mean, [6:45] he has two space stations orbiting the [6:48] Earth. So, anyway, those those people [6:50] who are in in the space business and [6:53] they're moving out into space, they just [6:55] can't help but wondering, you know, what [6:57] are we going to run into when when we [6:59] get out there? As a science advisor to [7:01] him, uh it turned out that the Defense [7:04] Intelligence Agency came forward and [7:07] said, uh you know, we need to find out [7:09] uh really what's uh going on in the [7:11] so-called UAP area. So, then they [7:13] determined they were just going to start [7:15] a UAP program. If that program they [7:17] started was called A SAP. They hired a [7:19] whole team, for example, Hal. And that [7:21] program started in 2008. Um [7:25] and [7:26] got a lot of pushback behind the scenes [7:28] because it turned out [7:30] when they looked over the intelligence [7:31] community to see if there was another [7:32] UFO program and didn't think there was, [7:34] turns out there was one. And there was a [7:36] deeply hidden program referred to as the [7:38] legacy program. [7:39] And it had been operating in the shadows [7:41] since the 40s [7:43] uh outside of congressional oversight, [7:45] outside of the oversight of the White [7:46] House. [7:47] Um completely, you know, off off [7:50] >> Completely hidden away. Yeah. As hidden [7:52] as a program can be. [7:53] And so they started pushing back behind [7:56] the scenes against everyone involved in [7:58] AATIP because they didn't want anyone [8:00] else looking into this, right? Started [8:02] to cause a lot of bureaucratic issues [8:04] for them, red tape issues, and [8:06] ultimately AATIP lost its funding in [8:08] 2010 despite the fact that it was [8:10] looking into very real issues like UAP [8:13] over our nuclear weapon sites. It shut [8:15] down in 2010. Why do you think it shut [8:16] down? [8:17] They were dealt [8:19] these bureaucratic hurdles behind the [8:21] scenes by people involved in the legacy [8:22] program, people who just caused problems [8:24] and prevented funding and it's a lot of, [8:27] you know, it's a [8:27] big bureaucracy. People can people can [8:30] do things behind the scenes to prevent [8:31] funding from coming through [8:33] for programs. And so ultimately they [8:36] lost their their funding in 2010 and [8:37] then Jay Stratton and other people [8:39] involved they were continuing to look [8:41] into this because they they didn't want [8:43] this serious national security concern [8:45] to go, you know, on on investigated, [8:48] right? So you know, that's how somebody [8:50] like me gets pulled in and they say, [8:52] "Okay, these pilots are out there and [8:53] they said they see craft coming out of [8:55] the ocean and making right angle turns [8:57] at 6 G or whatever." And they say, "Oh [9:00] my god, this is way beyond our physics." [9:03] So I and other physicists sort of dug [9:04] into, you know, what could be [9:06] responsible for this. And we actually [9:08] found that just like we use so-called [9:11] Maxwell's equations in electromagnetic [9:13] stuff for everything we do in [9:15] electromagnetics, [9:16] we have Einstein's equations in general [9:18] relativity for, you know, black holes [9:21] and all that kind of stuff. It turns out [9:23] if you could engineer those, you would [9:25] actually get the same effects that [9:26] people were observing with these UAP [9:29] crafts. So we think we've come up with, [9:31] you know, what it is about [9:33] the science of it. It's just that we [9:35] don't have the engineering to do it. Do [9:37] you believe in UAPs? [9:39] Absolutely believe in UAPs [9:41] because [clears throat] [9:42] I've been exposed to data about them. [9:45] A more specific question would be, do [9:46] you believe in aliens? Yeah, so a number [9:48] of the people I interviewed went on the [9:50] record [9:52] stating that they know from their own [9:54] personal experiences that there have [9:57] been UAP crashes over the years that [9:59] have been recovered by elements of the [10:02] US government and in some cases the the [10:04] crashed crafts had the bodies of [10:07] non-humans in them. [10:09] And numerous people I interviewed went [10:11] on the record saying that. And keep in [10:14] mind, everyone I interviewed only shared [10:16] what they lawfully could. There was a [10:17] line they couldn't cross. Everyone I [10:19] interviewed is aware of classified [10:20] information that they they can't talk [10:22] about, but they went right up to the [10:23] line and uh [10:25] made it clear that there had been [10:27] recoveries of non-human bodies. A couple [10:29] people actually testified under oath to [10:31] Congress saying the same thing. Why [10:33] wouldn't they be able to talk about it [10:35] publicly? Well, when you're involved in [10:36] certain programs, uh you sign certain [10:38] agreements that prevent you from sharing [10:41] Right. [10:42] >> specific information. [10:43] >> programs and [10:45] of course the big concern is, okay, [10:47] whatever we might learn about these kind [10:49] of craft and and so on, our adversaries [10:52] are out there and probably been there [10:55] been crashes in Russia, crashes in [10:57] China. [10:58] And so if we reveal what we're learning [11:00] about the subject area and [11:03] you know, said it publicly, then it it [11:05] might help some potential adversary [11:08] >> Yeah, a saying get a step get a step [11:10] ahead. So, that's why it's all just kept [11:12] really close end. So, a saying that I [11:15] heard often from my interview subjects, [11:17] you can't tell your friends without [11:18] telling your enemies. Meaning, you can't [11:21] tell the public what we know and don't [11:22] know without also telling China and [11:24] Russia what we know and don't know. And [11:26] giving them that information might give [11:28] them a competitive advantage. And the [11:31] the obvious question anyone would ask [11:32] when hearing that is then well okay, so [11:33] what shifted? Why is Why is that no [11:35] longer the leading thought secrecy is [11:37] best? And the answer is because the US [11:40] is in a really high stakes race, a [11:42] technology race, against these [11:43] adversaries to reverse engineer [11:45] technology of non-human origin. And [11:49] the secrecy around it in the US [11:52] since the 40s has created a scenario [11:56] where the scientific community and [11:57] academia don't even know it's real. They [12:00] don't even know it's a valid area of [12:01] inquiry. [12:02] >> Don't even believe it's real. I mean [12:04] >> the smartest kids graduating MIT this [12:05] year, they are not thinking that this is [12:07] something they can put their brain power [12:08] towards. So, [12:10] coming back to the question, do you [12:11] believe in aliens? I 100% believe that [12:14] non-human intelligent life [12:16] is here and has been here for a long [12:19] time. When you say here, do you mean [12:21] >> Earth. currently living amongst us? [12:22] >> I don't know about the living amongst us [12:24] part. [12:24] >> that. I don't know about that, but [12:26] >> Wouldn't rule it out, but I mean [12:27] >> There is UAP activity being reported on [12:30] a daily basis by commercial airlines [12:33] pilot commercial airline pilots to the [12:34] FAA, [12:35] by Navy fighter pilots off the East [12:38] Coast being reported, you know, up the [12:40] military chain of command. And on top of [12:42] that, regular activity over our nuclear [12:45] weapon sites inside the United States. [12:48] It's happening on a regular basis [12:50] uh on the on on the nuclear sites and on [12:52] a daily basis in commercial air travel [12:56] space. UAP have come over nuclear [12:59] missile sites and actually turned off [13:02] the missiles. [13:03] And so, you know, when something like [13:05] that happens, you just got to take it [13:07] seriously. [13:08] >> And the the technology that they're [13:09] displaying is technology that no humans [13:12] have. [13:14] And again, there has been some crashes [13:16] and in those crashes there have been the [13:18] bodies of non-humans. How do we know [13:20] that? How do we know that in those [13:22] crashes they've recovered bodies of [13:24] non-humans? The whistleblowers basically [13:26] coming forward from the government. [13:27] >> So we So the basis of the that evidence [13:29] is that some people have said it. At [13:32] this point, until until [13:35] previously classified information [13:38] regarding crashes and is and recoveries [13:40] is declassified, [13:41] until it [clears throat] happens, the [13:42] best we can hope for is credible people [13:45] putting their reputation on the line to [13:46] tell you this is what's been happening. [13:48] Did someone during your process of [13:49] making the documentary who had seen [13:52] non-alien non-human life non-human [13:55] intelligence tell you that? Yeah. Who [13:58] was that? A number of people, but [14:00] notably, you know, [14:02] Jay Stratton who we just talked about. [14:03] >> Yes, right. [14:04] >> Who co-created, co-founded AATIP, and [14:06] then became the director of the UAP Task [14:08] Force, the largest whole of government [14:09] investigation of UAP ever. What did he [14:11] say? He went on the record in the film [14:14] saying that he's seen non-human beings [14:16] and non-human craft with his own eyes. [14:18] That was the farthest he could go at [14:20] that point. Why did he say he couldn't [14:21] go further? Uh he he he he had a [14:24] situation that he [14:26] was involved in that um [14:29] for a few reasons he wasn't he just [14:31] wasn't comfortable talking about it yet, [14:32] and some of it I think he just wanted to [14:34] make sure he legally could. Now, going [14:36] back to credibility, like take a guy [14:38] like Jay saying that. When Jay retired a [14:40] few years back, he was part of the [14:43] senior executive services of the federal [14:44] government. That's a level less than 1% [14:46] of all federal employees ever reach. You [14:48] know, it's equivalent of a two-star [14:49] admiral or general. Um very very senior, [14:53] very trusted. You know, [14:55] cleared at a very high level. [14:57] Um he had worked with naval intelligence [15:00] in a senior capacity. [15:01] Uh he had worked with the CIA. He had [15:03] worked with the Defense Intelligence [15:04] Agency as the head of aerospace warfare. [15:06] It's a super serious, credible guy. And [15:10] he's he's he's putting his reputation on [15:12] the line to share this information [15:14] um to the extent that he legally could [15:16] and and comfortably could. And when you [15:18] asked him why [15:21] the world doesn't know this stuff in his [15:23] view, what did he What would he say? [15:25] There's a lot of reasons. I mean, [15:26] certainly the, you know, the idea that [15:28] we can't tell our friends without [15:29] telling our enemies has been a driver. [15:32] To just to recap the reasons for [15:33] secrecy, I I I actually believe it it's [15:36] better to kind of start from the [15:36] beginning. When this When when in 1947, [15:40] there was a crash at Roswell of [15:42] non-human origin [15:43] and uh yeah, RA uh RAAF captures flying [15:47] saucer on ranch in Roswell region. Yeah. [15:49] >> That's right. And then this is the image [15:50] of their cover-up story trying to show [15:52] weather ballooner. Yeah, so multiple [15:54] people in my film go on the record [15:55] saying the Roswell crash really [15:56] happened. Uh technology of non-human [15:58] origin and non-human bodies were [16:00] recovered. [16:01] Um if you put yourself in the shoes of [16:03] the military and government at that [16:05] point, like put yourself in Truman and, [16:06] you know, Eisenhower's shoes, you're [16:08] just coming out of World War II. The [16:10] world was just chaos for a very long [16:11] time. It's finally starting to settle [16:12] down. You can't exactly step to the [16:14] microphone and tell [16:16] America that there's a new threat that [16:18] we know nothing about and we can't [16:19] protect you from. They're far advanced, [16:22] you know, [16:23] what what's the advantage of that? So, [16:24] secrecy became the plan at that point [16:27] and [16:28] they had more questions than answers. [16:30] So, everyone I've talked to gave me [16:32] context explained that the the the the [16:35] plan for secrecy went in motion there. [16:38] Uh let's investigate. Let's find out [16:39] more about what we don't know before we [16:41] tell the American people. That was [16:43] quickly followed by the Cold War era and [16:46] we learned that Russia also had [16:47] retrieved technology of non-human [16:49] origin. And so, we knew we were in a [16:50] technology race. So, then the idea of [16:53] can't tell your friend without telling [16:54] your enemy ruled the day. So, now the [16:56] Cold War mentality, you know, led to [16:58] more secrecy and as a security wrapper [17:01] for this this program that it that it [17:02] started, uh they created the stigma in [17:05] the late '40s, early '50s. This cultural [17:07] stigma, this idea that you're crazy if [17:09] you look into this topic. You're wacky, [17:12] you'll have your reputation ruined, [17:13] you'll have your career ruined. [17:14] >> actually to CIA meeting where people got [17:17] together and said, "Okay, in order to [17:19] not have people be pursuing this area, [17:22] let's go out of our way to spread [17:24] what we would call now disinformation [17:27] about this [17:27] >> very basically the most effective [17:28] disinformation campaign in the history [17:30] of the US government because it got into [17:32] our culture, some movies were funded [17:34] that made aliens seem silly, and the [17:35] idea of life from elsewhere seemed [17:37] ridiculous, and that compounded over the [17:39] years, and then we got to the point [17:41] where where we were like, you know, just [17:44] just like few years ago, where the [17:46] average person just thinks it's not [17:47] real. You know, the average scientist, [17:49] academia, Yeah. you know, they think [17:51] it's conspiracy stuff, it's nonsense, [17:53] it's silly. Um there was no advantage [17:55] for elected leaders to get in front of [17:57] this or for military members to, you [18:00] know, speak up about what they learned [18:01] or saw. It would be a career ruiner. [18:03] Um [18:04] and uh that started to shift uh several [18:08] years back when Jay Stratton [18:12] and Jim McCaslin when they put together [18:13] AATIP in 2010, and they started to go [18:17] out there and collect data [18:20] um and get evidence, and they started to [18:22] actually share it with the Senate [18:23] Intelligence Committee and the Senate [18:25] Armed Services Committee, and looking at [18:28] classified data in a classified setting, [18:29] people like Marco Rubio, who was the [18:31] vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence [18:32] Committee at the time, started to [18:33] realize, [18:34] Yeah, so there's something here. [18:36] >> Not only is there something here, but [18:37] we've got a problem, right? There's a [18:38] lot of a lot of UAP activity over these [18:41] highly classified sites like our nuclear [18:43] weapons sites. There's a lot at stake. [18:45] We are in this, you know, race with [18:47] other nations, and the stigma has [18:49] created a disadvantage for us. [18:52] It's very hard to win a technology race [18:53] when the majority of your scientists [18:55] don't know it's a valid area of inquiry, [18:56] right? [18:58] And do people think that there's one [18:59] type of non-human intelligence that's [19:02] visiting the earth, or is there many, [19:03] many types? [19:04] >> People who have been involved in [19:05] recoveries have said [19:07] >> least four types, four separate types. [19:10] Now, I have not had direct access to [19:12] that, but I I I believe the people who I [19:15] talked to. Four different types of life. [19:17] Four different types of life, at least. [19:20] And the people [19:21] I've talked through to, you know, [19:23] through the process of making the [19:24] documentary, both on camera and [19:26] off-the-record sources, [19:28] and the people I also talked to over the [19:30] decades have said that there are there [19:32] have been dozens of recoveries of [19:34] crashed craft in the US alone. Dozens of [19:37] craft of non-human origin [19:40] that either crashed organically or [19:42] caused to crash [19:43] and then recovered. And have you spoken [19:45] to people who You talked about Jay. Have [19:48] you spoken to other people that have [19:49] worked on these [19:51] crashed crafts? I've talked I've talked [19:53] off the record with some people who are [19:55] involved in recoveries. They would not [19:57] go on camera to do interviews. [19:59] Special forces people that would not go [20:01] on camera do interviews. One I actually [20:03] thought I've I've mentioned this in [20:05] another interview, but um one I thought [20:07] was going to do an interview and then a [20:08] couple days before sent me a message [20:11] saying, "After further consideration and [20:13] long talks with my wife, I decided I'd [20:15] be forfeiting my life if I participated [20:17] in your interview." [20:18] And I thought that was like very un- [20:21] very unsettling message to get, [20:22] obviously, but also very specific word [20:24] choice, you know, "forfeiting my life." [20:26] What did he know? He was a special very [20:29] senior special forces guy who [20:31] had told me he had been involved in [20:33] multiple recoveries. [20:34] That's what he told me. [20:35] Okay. [20:37] And I met him through uh some high-level [20:40] intelligence people. [20:41] Early on in my process, I got connected [20:44] with the Senate Intelligence Committee [20:46] and the Senate Armed Services Committee, [20:48] and they had on their own learned the [20:50] reality of the situation through the [20:53] work of ASAP and then ATIP and then the [20:56] UAP Task Force and through their own [20:59] their own intelligence channels. Leaders [21:02] on those committees wanted to educate [21:04] the public about what they could [21:06] lawfully about this, but they didn't [21:08] really have a way to do it. It's such a [21:10] complicated situation. It takes a while [21:13] to explain it. You can't do it in like a [21:15] 6-minute news hit on Fox or CNN or even [21:17] like a 15-minute 60-minute segment. You [21:20] just can't do it. And no one wanted to [21:22] be the one guy trying to do it. So, [21:25] when I started putting together the film [21:27] and socializing this safe way for people [21:29] to step forward, it also quickly became [21:32] those people's plan for disclosure. [21:34] That's why Senator Rubio participated. [21:37] That's why White House National Security [21:38] Council members participated. It became [21:40] amongst the group of people who had [21:41] learned the truth, it became [21:44] the plan for disclosure, the way to [21:45] bring this information out in a [21:47] thoughtful [21:48] way. Do the presidents of the United [21:51] States [21:52] know about this stuff? Are they aware? [21:54] >> Historically, no. Historically [21:55] >> Yeah, and even Rubio says on camera [21:57] that, you know, historically, this has [22:00] been kept from even sitting presidents. [22:03] Who would know then? So, [22:05] a number of the people in my film break [22:06] down um who's involved in legacy [22:09] program. [22:11] Now, sim- just to put it simply, it's [22:13] elements of the CIA, elements of the Air [22:15] Force, elements of the Department of [22:17] Energy, and a few major defense [22:19] contractors. And they have the ability [22:22] to access information from a number of [22:24] federal agencies and branches of the [22:25] military, but the the primary leaders of [22:28] this program are the CIA, the Air Force, [22:30] the Department of Energy, and major [22:31] defense contractors. And Rubio breaks [22:33] down in the film the way our bureaucracy [22:35] works, um [22:37] you could have [22:38] career bureaucrats in positions of power [22:41] at those organizations for decades, [22:44] and they can just wait out sitting [22:45] presidents. They can wait out sitting [22:48] senators. [22:48] >> presidents as just temporary help. [22:51] They're going to come and go. And that's [22:52] what's been happening up until this [22:55] point now. So, the fact that Rubio had [22:58] learned so much about the reality of the [23:00] the and the extent of the cover-up, and [23:02] then ended up arguably the second most [23:04] powerful guy in the world as our [23:05] Secretary of State and our National [23:06] Security Advisor at the same time, [23:08] which has only happened once in US [23:09] history, Henry Kissinger for 2 years. No [23:12] one else has ever had both those jobs at [23:13] the same time. The fact that he ended up [23:15] in that position of power and influence [23:18] after learning the reality of the [23:19] situation, and right as the age of [23:22] disclosure is coming out and driving [23:23] this national conversation, [23:25] it really led to the current President [23:28] Trump being informed about this in a way [23:30] that no president has in a very long [23:32] time. So, are you saying that the United [23:34] States don't think the public are ready [23:36] to even know that this exists? Because, [23:39] you know, they could tell us that they [23:41] have recovered UAPs or aliens, whatever [23:44] it might be, without telling us about [23:46] the technology. They could, and I think [23:48] we're going to get to that point. [23:49] >> Yeah, I think that they were trapped in [23:51] in the system that had that had grown [23:53] up, and uh people behind the scenes [23:56] working in the classified programs said, [23:59] "Well, you know, we don't know how the [24:00] public is going to respond, so let's be [24:03] safe, and let's let's just keep it [24:05] in-house." Do you think Trump believes [24:07] that there are aliens? Cuz I I was [24:09] looking at some of his quotes, and he [24:10] said, "Well, I don't know if they're [24:12] real or not. I don't have an opinion on [24:14] it. I never talk about it. A lot of [24:16] people do. A lot of people believe it." [24:18] Barack Obama said that aliens are real. [24:22] Well, he ain't supposed to provide [24:23] information. He's not supposed to be [24:25] doing that. So, aliens are real? No, I [24:27] don't I don't have an opinion on it. I [24:29] never talk about it. A lot of people do. [24:32] A lot of people believe it. [24:34] So, you believe it, Greer? Uh well, if [24:36] the president can declassify anything [24:38] that he wants to, so if he wants to make [24:39] an announcement I may get him out of [24:41] trouble by declassifying. One of the [24:43] things that came out in the age of [24:44] disclosure [24:46] is that [24:48] during Trump's first administration, [24:51] his cabinet was briefed by the UAP Task [24:54] Force, by Jay Stratton. And [24:57] when he briefed them [24:58] uh he was told that they had asked for [25:01] this briefing [25:02] because they needed to be able to [25:03] evaluate what the repercussions would be [25:05] if Trump decided to step to the [25:06] microphone and tell the world we're not [25:08] alone in the universe. Obviously, he [25:10] didn't end up deciding to do that then. [25:12] However, in this new administration [25:15] he's got Rubio [25:17] in the position of Secretary of State [25:18] and National Security Advisor and fully [25:20] aware of the situation and that has [25:23] given him the comfort to put this this [25:24] process in motion. There's certainly a [25:26] disclosure process unfolding right now. [25:28] Obama said in an interview that he did [25:30] with Brian Tyler Cohen [25:32] when asked about aliens, Obama said, [25:35] "They're real, but I haven't seen them. [25:37] They're not being kept at Area 51. [25:39] There's no underground facility unless [25:41] there's this enormous conspiracy and [25:43] they hid it from the President of the [25:44] United States." Now, that sounded to me [25:46] like kind of sarcasm when he said [25:48] they're real, but and then explained all [25:49] that they're not real. [25:50] They're real, but I haven't seen them [25:52] and and and uh they're not being kept in [25:55] uh Area 51. Uh there there's no [25:57] underground uh facility unless there's [26:01] this enormous conspiracy and they they [26:04] hid it from the President of the United [26:06] States. [26:07] So, it would appear to me that Obama [26:09] also doesn't know of any aliens. I think [26:12] Obama was largely kept in the dark. I [26:15] think he does know that the base fact [26:17] that we're not alone in the universe and [26:18] I actually think when he said they're [26:19] real, I think he was being that was just [26:22] candid. [26:23] >> honest. [26:23] >> That was his honest, candid, genuine [26:25] statement. I think when he then said [26:27] they're not kept at Area 51 I think he's [26:29] also being honest cuz none of my sources [26:32] say that say that UAP and aliens are [26:34] being kept at Area 51. They're being [26:35] kept somewhere else. [26:37] Um [26:37] so, I think he was being honest there [26:40] and I think when he made the comment of [26:42] uh unless there's a giant conspiracy, if [26:44] you watch the tape, he like sips his cup [26:46] and raises his eyebrows as he said. He [26:48] thinks [26:48] he knows there's a giant conspiracy. [26:50] That's the truth. The following day uh [26:52] Trump was asked about that on Air Force [26:54] One and he responded saying Obama [26:57] revealed classified information and he [26:58] shouldn't have said that. And um [27:02] I think that's the truth. Yeah. I think [27:04] presidents don't don't know when they're [27:05] and they're told not to talk about it. [27:07] Trump has started to release a lot of [27:09] classified information around UAP and [27:11] aliens. The first batch of that was [27:13] released a couple of days ago. What [27:15] exactly is inside this report? There was [27:19] a number of files, reports, [27:22] video, and [27:24] still images that were declassified. [27:27] This is information that previously had [27:29] been classified or just never really [27:32] made public. [27:34] This was just the first tranche of what [27:38] has been what will be released. [27:40] The most notable piece of evidence in [27:42] there is an image, a still image, from [27:45] the 1972 Apollo mission. It's an image [27:47] of a triangle, [27:49] seemingly triangle-shaped craft, [27:51] hovering above the moon and above the [27:53] astronauts. And the image was taken from [27:56] the from the lunar module. And [27:59] you know, the UAP task force looked into [28:01] this image years ago and determined it [28:04] was real. That seems to be the most [28:06] glaring piece of evidence in this this [28:08] tranche. But I will say this, Hal and I [28:10] both have the same a lot of the same [28:11] sources of information and [28:15] everyone we've talked to at various [28:16] federal agencies has told us that [28:19] when the president gave this directive [28:20] in middle of February for federal [28:22] agencies to declassify evidence of [28:23] non-human intelligent life and UAP, [28:26] only a few [28:28] engaged with it. They only gave a small [28:31] percent of what they have. [28:33] And they only had a couple weeks to do [28:34] it. [28:35] >> Mhm. One of the things I I think I've [28:36] always struggled with with the idea of [28:38] these kind of conspiracies um [28:41] is that I don't know why that [28:42] information would necessarily fall into [28:46] the hands of like government officials [28:48] because, you know, alien life forms or [28:49] UAPs would be [28:51] visible and would land in anyone's back [28:53] garden. So, you would you could imagine [28:55] a world, especially in a world where we [28:56] have, I don't know, like 8 billion [28:57] iPhones roaming around. Can imagine a [29:00] world where if there was some kind of [29:01] UAP crash in my garden, it would be on [29:04] TikTok within 5 minutes. Yeah. Or if [29:06] there really was [29:07] >> Someone got there with an iPhone. You're [29:08] right. You know, there was that incident [29:11] earlier in the year with those with were [29:12] they drones in in America flying [29:14] >> Jersey. Jersey Jersey Jersey Jersey And [29:16] that was on social media within minutes [29:18] and everyone was talking about it and [29:19] looking at what they were. I don't know, [29:21] I think in the modern world because we [29:22] have so many ways to capture [29:24] high-quality video, if there was [29:26] something out there, we would have seen [29:29] a very clear image of this thing by now. [29:32] >> Well, there's a lot That's why there [29:33] there's a lot that came out in these [29:35] files because over the years our sensor [29:37] systems that the pilots have in their [29:39] planes have gotten so much better. [29:42] They've captured, really, [29:44] a small amount. Does this life want to [29:46] be seen? Do these aliens want us to know [29:48] that they're I'd have to assume that [29:50] given the level of quality of their [29:53] technology, if they didn't want to be [29:54] seen, we we wouldn't be seeing them. [29:57] So, it seems like I would say there's [29:59] evidence that, for whatever reason, [30:01] they're they're they're wanting to be [30:03] seen. But also like I my personal [30:05] opinion is that if someone answers that [30:08] question, they're answering it through [30:10] the lens of like how humans think, [30:12] right? [30:13] For all we know, [30:14] you know, we're we're ants to them. You [30:17] know, you don't hide from the ants. You [30:18] walk around them. You don't even But you [30:19] also don't pay attention to them, you [30:21] know? Based on their behavior from the [30:22] interviews you've done, [30:25] how do you think they view us? I I [30:27] honestly feel like the dynamic is, you [30:30] know, we are very very far below them on [30:33] the food chain. You know, Hal makes an [30:35] analogy in the film. He says, "The ants [30:37] in your [30:39] tree line in your backyard, they could [30:40] be there for generations. You never [30:42] think about them, you walk around them, [30:44] you don't you're not hiding from them, [30:46] but like they're there and you don't [30:47] really care, right? But what happens if [30:49] they evolve one day and out of nowhere [30:51] they figured out how to get into your [30:53] house and they beelined under your under [30:55] your door and they're in your living [30:56] room, right? We might have evolved [30:59] technologically over the last 80 years [31:01] since we cracked the atom so quickly [31:03] that we're now, you know, the equivalent [31:05] of the ants showing up in their living [31:07] room. Like all of a sudden [31:09] >> All of a sudden this warring species, [31:11] this violent species, humans, you know, [31:14] um [31:15] we have we we progressed so quickly. We [31:17] went from no real technological progress [31:20] progress for a very long time to [31:22] cracking the atom and then figuring out [31:23] nuclear technology and then continuing [31:25] to increase, you know, our our nuclear [31:27] technology development. [31:29] And, you know, we have this program that [31:32] has been retrieving their crashed craft [31:34] and trying to reverse engineer them. So, [31:36] we might be at that point where we're [31:38] about to do what they do and all of a [31:40] sudden we are a problem. Um that might [31:43] be the explanation of why they pay so [31:45] much attention to our nuclear process. [31:47] You know, there's a lot of UAP activity [31:49] not only at the nuclear weapon sites all [31:51] over the world, but um [31:54] uh sites involved in the process, the [31:55] nuclear process, like uranium mines or [31:58] refineries. Is it you know [32:00] >> It might just be we've [clears throat] [32:00] gotten to the point where all of a [32:01] sudden they have they have to [32:05] In uh in the Soviet Union, uh [32:08] the UAP came over and actually started [32:11] a launch of the Russian missiles. [32:14] I mean, they actually forced the system [32:17] to start into a countdown process. [32:18] >> know that? [32:20] By the intelligence community's [32:23] uh access to information about it. [32:25] Every person we spoke to in Belorac of [32:27] each has said they saw a flying saucer [32:29] on that day. [32:31] For hours it hovered over the nearby [32:33] ballistic missile base. No No had [32:35] touched any buttons. No one had entered [32:37] any codes. And yet, as the UFO hovered [32:40] over the base, the control panel showed [32:42] the missiles were preparing to launch. [32:45] For 15 agonizing seconds, the base lost [32:48] control of its nuclear weapons. [32:51] Logically, I would think that unusual [32:53] activity would happen [32:56] around consequential sites. Yes. You [32:58] know, I'd be more surprised if there was [33:00] really frequent unusual activity [33:02] happening in my back garden, for [33:03] example. But, around highly [33:06] consequential sites, one would expect [33:08] there to be [33:09] people flying things around there, [33:10] spying. You know what people are like [33:11] with cameras these days. They want to [33:13] take photos of anything interesting. [33:14] They They hang around police stations [33:15] and army barracks. Right. Right. So, [33:17] logically, I would assume that there [33:18] would be an an increased probability of [33:20] strange activity in the sky above a [33:22] nuclear site. Well, in fact, there was a [33:25] group of people in the intelligence [33:26] community who who recognized exactly [33:28] what you're saying. And so, they decided [33:31] to, you know, make an attractive magnet [33:34] by getting a whole lot of nuclear [33:37] assets in in one location to see if that [33:40] would draw them in. And my understanding [33:43] it was successful. [33:44] So, you know, our nation and other [33:46] nations have figured out circumstances [33:48] that can, for lack of a better term, [33:51] bait UAP. Right. Right. Um [33:53] a certain level of nuclear footprint in [33:56] a in a small radius [33:58] tends to attract them. [34:00] And um [34:01] our nation figured that out a long time [34:03] ago, and and so did other nations. One [34:05] of the things that I I thought about is [34:07] I know I know very little about physics, [34:08] but I know one thing I know is how big [34:10] the universe is. [34:12] Now, I'm quite a big fan of SpaceX. I'm [34:13] actually invested in the company. And um [34:16] from my fascination with space, I've [34:18] learned just how big the universe is, [34:20] and how long it would take us to travel [34:21] from, [34:22] I don't know, Earth to the nearest uh [34:24] galaxy. The closest star system to us, [34:27] which is called Alpha Centauri, Mhm. [34:29] Alpha Centauri, right. is over four [34:32] light years away, which is about 40 24 [34:35] trillion miles. [34:36] >> Mhm. [34:38] If we traveled at the impossible 10% of [34:41] the speed of light, which is impossible, [34:43] currently impossible, it would take a [34:44] ship 40 years to get there. Now, [34:47] fortunately, what we learned in looking [34:50] at what might be the underlying physics [34:52] and using Einstein's theory of general [34:54] relativity, it turns out that there are [34:56] ways of modifying the effective speed of [34:59] light to make it much higher. [35:02] Or much lower. So, you you you can do [35:05] that. So, So, when you get into [35:07] potentially modifying [35:09] what we call the space-time metric, [35:11] you could get to a point where you can [35:13] make wormholes and warp drives, and [35:17] those are things that are not off the [35:19] charts. I mean, they're actually [35:20] textbooks by general relativity experts [35:23] on on the fact that you could [35:24] re-engineer the space-time [35:26] >> So, you're not saying So, you could do [35:27] it. You could get from here to there. [35:30] But, you're not saying you would travel [35:31] in like a like a a a line like you do in [35:34] a plane, right? [35:35] >> Well, you could. You You could. It It If [35:37] If you arrange for the effective speed [35:40] of light in that line to be [35:44] much higher, then without breaking the [35:45] speed of light, you can zoom over there [35:48] very quickly. So, you even even in in in [35:51] the straight line uh [35:53] But, no no one at the moment knows how [35:55] to do that on Earth. [35:57] I think I think [35:58] >> write the equations and see how it [36:00] doesn't violate our physics equations, [36:02] but we don't have the [36:04] uh engineering capabilities. So, we [36:07] figured out basically we figured out [36:09] like how these how these craft are [36:11] operating, the theory of it, but we [36:14] don't have the material sciences right [36:15] to exactly to replicate it. What I'm [36:17] pointing out is if you travel at that [36:18] speed across the universe, if you even [36:20] hit I don't know [36:22] an object the size of a pebble, it would [36:24] be like a nuclear explosion. Yeah, but [36:26] thing is, when you're modifying uh [36:29] it's sort of like making like like a [36:31] surfer wave on [36:34] you know at the seashore, you you [36:36] arrange to have space moving ahead like [36:39] that. So, you come up to a rock, it's [36:41] just going to push it aside. So, so [36:44] >> engineer that. This is how I've wrapped [36:45] my head around it. Essentially, they're [36:47] they're warping space-time in a [36:49] localized area. They're creating immense [36:50] amount of energy around the craft and it [36:53] creates essentially a bubble around the [36:55] craft. And that bubble separates the [36:57] craft from the environment around it. [36:59] So, the environment has no no impact on [37:02] the craft. That's why we see transmedium [37:04] travel like a craft going, you know, [37:06] smooth from space to air to the water [37:08] without even a splash. The environment [37:11] around the bubble has no bearing on the [37:14] craft inside it. And the craft inside it [37:16] is in its own space-time. [37:18] And once you wrap your head around that, [37:20] then things like interstellar travel [37:22] become totally possible. [37:25] I'm 100% more productive using this app, [37:27] despite spending 50% less time typing. [37:30] And that might confuse you, but let me [37:32] explain, which is exactly why I invested [37:33] in WhisperFlow. They're also one of our [37:36] sponsors on this podcast. WhisperFlow [37:38] turns your speech into text, so you can [37:40] send it in any app or device at any [37:43] time. And I promise you, it doesn't seem [37:44] to ever make mistakes. This is the most [37:47] accurate voice dictation I have ever [37:49] used after a decade of trying to get one [37:51] to work. Not only does it save me a ton [37:53] of time, it also corrects your speech if [37:55] you change your mind mid-sentence before [37:57] turning it into text on the device. I [37:59] love it and I know my team loves it, [38:00] too, because when I posted it in our [38:01] Slack channel asking if anybody wanted a [38:03] pro version, half the office said yes [38:05] and they had it within an hour, which [38:07] tells me everything. This is the tool [38:09] you and your team need to speed [38:11] yourselves up and to capture those [38:13] important ideas so that they don't [38:15] disappear. Head over to [38:16] whisperflow.ai/steven [38:19] to download it now. That's w i s r f l o [38:23] w dot a i slash Steven. [38:26] I run multiple companies that have [38:28] multiple sales teams. And one of the [38:29] things as a founder of a company that's [38:31] often confusing is you find it hard to [38:33] figure out where sales are. So about 10 [38:35] years ago I started using Pipedrive in [38:37] my former company and it's also the [38:39] reason why I switched over all of my [38:40] commercial teams in my current media [38:42] company called steven.com to use [38:43] Pipedrive as well. Not only do they [38:45] sponsor this show, but they've been an [38:46] incredibly effective way of scaling our [38:48] sales engine over the years. Pipedrive [38:49] is an easy-to-use intelligent CRM and at [38:52] its very core it makes your sales [38:54] process visible through one dashboard, a [38:57] visual pipeline showing every deal, what [39:00] stage it's in, what needs to happen [39:02] next, and it's all in real time with no [39:04] delay. It doesn't magically close the [39:06] deal for you, of course, but it does [39:07] replace complexity with clarity. If you [39:10] want to join over 100,000 companies [39:12] already using Pipedrive, you can use my [39:14] link for a 30-day free trial with no [39:16] credit card payment needed. Head to [39:18] pipedrive.com/ceo [39:21] to get started. That's [39:22] pipedrive.com/ceo. [39:25] I'll see you over there. [39:28] One of the paradoxes with this is they [39:29] appear to be such so advanced in their [39:32] physics [39:33] and their technology, if I could call it [39:36] that, but at the same time they seem to [39:37] be crashing a lot. Which is a bit of a [39:40] paradox, isn't Actually, [clears throat] [39:41] some of them have not crashed but have [39:44] been [39:45] simply left in the desert. [39:48] Sort of like a gift or a donation. We're [39:51] still trying to figure that out. So I [39:53] mean some of them do do do crash and and [39:56] it can have maybe some of our [39:58] electromagnetic pulsing and laser [40:00] pulsing can interfere with their [40:02] technology and and and and you might get [40:04] a crash. Why why don't you Why do you [40:06] think another country hasn't come [40:08] forward with [40:09] similar disclosures and similar [40:11] evidence? I actually think there's a [40:13] really simple answer for that. I think [40:15] our allies follow the US's lead. Right. [40:18] And I think our adversaries, [40:21] primarily China and Russia, have no [40:23] reason to go public. [40:25] They don't have the same sort of [40:26] societies and dynamics. Like Xi can do [40:29] what he wants anyway. What's What's the [40:31] advantage to him? [40:32] Same thing with Putin. You know, there [40:34] is no advantage. And when you look at it [40:36] that way, you really quickly get to the, [40:38] you know, [40:39] this is the way it is for that reason. [40:41] They did a study in 2026 and found that [40:43] 45 planets are likely capable of [40:45] supporting life. [40:47] They call this the habitable zone out of [40:49] more than 6,000 planets discovered so [40:52] far by NASA. Mhm. Um there are [40:54] approximately a trillion galaxies in the [40:56] universe and within these galaxies [40:58] 100,000 planets could potentially host [41:01] life according to Oxford University. [41:03] Now, I believe that if you think about [41:05] the entire universe, [41:08] I believe that we're not the only life [41:10] in the universe. Yes, right. I think [41:12] that's I mean I think that's a very [41:13] scientific conclusion. Probabilistically [41:16] it would be pretty incredible if we [41:17] were. I mean, it'd be just it's almost [41:19] inconceivable that we are. The question [41:21] of whether that life has been here is a [41:23] question that for me is still a big [41:24] question mark. [41:26] Because I just, you know, I also I think [41:28] Elon, you know, whatever you think about [41:30] Elon, he is someone that seems to just [41:32] say what he thinks. [41:33] And this is part of what's caused his [41:35] companies a lot of problems. He seems to [41:36] be pretty unfiltered. He has been asked [41:39] multiple times as well if he believes [41:40] that they are there are aliens in the in [41:43] in our galaxy and he has said on [41:45] multiple occasions that he doesn't [41:47] believe that to be the case. And you [41:48] know, he's launching rockets all the [41:49] time. So, he said, I heard him say, "If [41:51] anyone should know, it should be me." [41:54] You do think he knows? [41:56] I think that you can't operate in space [42:00] at at at the level he does or operate as [42:03] a contractor at the level he does [42:06] um [42:07] without having clearances that require [42:10] secrecy. You know, there's [42:12] there's there's all kinds of [42:14] uh uh levels of secrecy. You know, [42:16] there's Everyone knows the word [42:17] classified, right? There's classified [42:18] projects, but there's also black [42:20] projects that are unacknowledged special [42:22] access programs where you literally by [42:25] law required [42:27] to not acknowledge the existence of the [42:29] program or anything it does. That's [42:31] literally the the Anything it knows. [42:32] Yeah. That's literally the whole They're [42:34] They're literally referred to as [42:35] unacknowledged special access programs. [42:37] That would be his team as well, wouldn't [42:39] So, if you're involved with an [42:40] unacknowledged special access program, [42:42] if someone asks you about it, [42:43] you you have to say you have no idea [42:45] what they're talking about. And all of [42:46] his team. [42:47] If if they are a part of the program, [42:49] yeah. [42:50] But just because someone's um read it on [42:52] an unacknowledged special access program [42:55] doesn't mean all their employees are. [42:57] Elon said um that we have 9,000 [42:59] satellites up there. He's referring to [43:01] his company Starlink, and not once have [43:02] we had to maneuver around an alien [43:04] spaceship. He argues that if aliens were [43:06] constantly visiting Earth, the aerospace [43:08] experts who watch these guys every day [43:10] would be the first to know. Well, look, [43:13] NASA also has said for decades that they [43:15] have no evidence [43:16] of extraterrestrial [laughter] [43:18] life or UAPs, and last Friday the [43:21] federal government released a photo of a [43:22] triangle craft hovering over the 1972 [43:24] Apollo space mission. So, somebody's [43:26] somebody's not being honest. [43:28] Right. You know, which also implies a [43:30] lot of other people know things that [43:32] they haven't revealed. [43:34] I think I've heard you say before how [43:35] that you think [43:37] this intelligent life actually exists [43:39] amongst us. Yeah, I I The quote was [43:41] they are not occasional visitors. They [43:43] live secretly alongside humans, but with [43:45] advanced technology. We have so many [43:47] sightings and so many uh [43:50] even access to materials and so on. [43:54] I mean, they're all over the place. 65% [43:56] of Americans believe intelligent life [43:58] exists on other planets. 40% of people [44:00] say military reported UFOs are probably [44:02] evidence of extraterrestrial life, [44:05] according to Pew Research. And 30% of [44:06] Americans believe UFOs or unidentified [44:08] flying objects are probably alien ships [44:10] of life form. And 47% of Americans [44:13] believe aliens have definitely or [44:14] probably visited Earth at some point, [44:16] according to YouGov. Half of Americans [44:19] believe that UFOs [44:22] {slash} aliens have definitely or [44:24] probably visited life at some point. [44:27] Mhm. Quite a lot of people. [44:28] >> Well, you see you see you see the the [44:30] Age of Disclosure film and the people [44:33] that came forward. I mean, you had [44:35] Clapper, ex uh [44:37] head of the office of Director of [44:39] National Intelligence and Senator Rubio [44:41] at the time, now in his elevated [44:44] position and so on. [44:46] You now have people of real quality and [44:49] you know they're not lying. And they're [44:52] coming forth and saying, "This is real [44:54] and we got to deal with it. And there's [44:57] a lot we don't know about it." Could you [44:59] be wrong? [45:01] Um I don't think it's about [45:02] [clears throat] whether I'm wrong or how [45:04] strong. You'd have to believe that [45:07] senior leadership across the government, [45:10] the military, the intelligence community [45:12] that has access to classified [45:14] information [45:15] and is saying, "Based on the classified [45:17] information they have seen, this is a [45:18] real situation." You'd have to believe [45:20] all of those people are lying for some [45:22] bizarre unexplained reason. [45:25] So, I find that hard to believe. [45:27] Could it be the case that all of those [45:29] people were misinterpreting what they [45:31] were seeing? [45:32] They they saw something, you know, if [45:34] at flight altitude they saw something [45:35] moving in their visors when they're up [45:37] in space. [45:39] Not really, because [45:40] >> No, no, I mean, in some cases that could [45:42] be the case, but then when you have [45:44] actual materials, crashed craft, [45:47] bodies that aren't [45:49] human. Also, a lot of these sightings um [45:53] they're now in the process of the White [45:55] House, cabinet members are in the [45:57] process of [45:59] identifying where the evidence exists [46:01] within federal agencies and the military [46:03] so they can get access to it themselves [46:06] and then determine from there what can [46:08] safely be shared with the public. I [46:10] think once they get their hands on more [46:12] evidence, then a plan would put in place [46:15] for telling the world this conclusion. I [46:17] think we're we're it's like [46:19] >> We're close. [46:19] >> Fait accompli basically. Like it's going [46:21] to get to that point relatively soon. If [46:23] we get to that point and you get [46:24] personally invited in to wherever [46:26] they're keeping the these materials and [46:28] you get to see every single file that [46:29] exists and as you go through those files [46:31] you realize that [46:34] a lot of what you've been told is not [46:35] true because there's other explanations. [46:38] How would it like fundamentally change [46:39] the way that you see the world? [46:42] Some of some of the UAP we've seen like [46:44] take the famous everybody knows the Tic [46:46] Tac UFO, right? The Commander David [46:48] Fravor, the Navy fighter pilot, [46:50] interacted with in 2004, right? [46:52] >> I'll put that on the screen for anyone [46:53] that hasn't seen it. Great. And so take [46:55] that take that UAP for example. [46:58] Multiple data collection systems and [47:00] Commander David Fravor, a legend in the [47:02] in the Navy, Top Gun guy, commander of [47:05] an entire naval strike group, right? [47:07] Like total badass, legend legend of a [47:11] guy. [47:12] He sees this with his own eyes and a [47:14] bunch of data collection systems [47:15] captured data confirming it's real. This [47:17] UAP went from hovering above the ocean [47:20] to instantly being at 80,000 ft which is [47:23] the entrance to space, right? And it did [47:25] that maneuver all afternoon. [47:28] The amount of energy required to do that [47:30] is so bonkers. [47:33] It's we do not humans do No human beings [47:35] have the ability to create that must [47:37] that much energy, right? In a localized [47:38] area for for an aircraft. [47:41] And and so [47:43] to answer your question, if we find out [47:46] you know [47:47] the unthinkable, that this is not [47:48] non-human intelligent life, that some [47:51] humans have figured out how to crack [47:52] that technology [47:54] and did it as recent as 2004 when the [47:56] Tic Tac incident happened. [47:58] That would [48:00] be even more mind-blowing than [48:04] accepting that life from elsewhere is [48:06] here and has been here a long time [48:07] because that would mean that some some [48:09] group of humans leapfrogged the rest of [48:12] all of humanity technologically by [48:15] thousands of years and then seemingly [48:18] did nothing with that. Or it could be [48:20] something else. That's the nature of [48:22] unusual things. They become great [48:23] stories. So I I think in the case of the [48:25] Tic Tac incident, again, I'm what I'm [48:26] trying to do is interrogate this from [48:29] all angles. Is could it have been [48:31] something else? [48:33] Could it be Any any isolated event like [48:35] that you could do the whole could it be [48:37] this, could it be that thing, but it's [48:38] the it's the you got to take a step back [48:40] and look at this the collective. It's [48:42] one report like that after another from [48:44] credible people since World War II. [48:48] You know, during World War II pilots [48:49] were seeing what they called the Foo [48:50] Fighters, like these orbs that would [48:53] move alongside uh our our fighter jets, [48:56] right? Like they would like they would [48:58] move in in line with them. [49:00] Um And now we have we have people on [49:03] ships seeing these things enter the [49:05] water and then moving at, you know, [49:07] Impossible speeds. [49:08] >> knots or something, which no no human [49:12] being could could do that. [49:12] >> as I know, our fastest submarines go [49:14] like 50 miles an hour. These things are [49:16] going hundreds of miles an hour under [49:17] the ocean. So these craft are [49:19] transmedium. They're seen in space, [49:21] they're seen in the air, they're seen [49:23] underwater. [49:24] There's just too much activity to to [49:26] ignore. Yeah, and and that would be a [49:28] hard one to say, "Well, you know, is [49:30] there some sonar thing that makes you [49:32] think something is doing that?" But it's [49:34] seen enough times under enough different [49:36] conditions that we just have to accept [49:38] it as real. Is there a reason why this [49:41] hasn't been captured on like an iPhone? [49:43] When like in 4K? There's been a lot of [49:46] stuff captured on phones and video [49:48] cameras. In in that scene in the Age of [49:50] Disclosure I mentioned where Hal and [49:51] some of the other people break down how [49:53] these things are working and they [49:54] describe that they're creating a a warp [49:55] bubble around the craft. That warp [49:57] bubble also makes it very hard to get a [50:00] clear video of something cuz you're [50:02] you're taking a photo or a video [50:04] through [50:05] essentially a space-time barrier, you [50:07] know? [50:07] >> barrier. [50:08] >> the equivalent of taking pictures of [50:11] trying to take video of like koi fish in [50:13] a pond from above the water. It's going [50:14] to look all distorted cuz you're going [50:16] through the water. [50:17] If you're if you're trying to video or [50:19] take a photo through a [50:20] this bubble, it makes it pretty hard. [50:22] And then you end up with the kind of [50:23] videos we we see. [50:25] Um you'll probably be familiar with this [50:26] NASA report that they produced on UAPs, [50:29] independent study team report where they [50:31] they essentially say that they don't [50:32] believe that this [50:34] these UAPs are are aliens. Why would [50:37] NASA be lying? Like all these big [50:39] bureaucracies, there's people who are [50:41] aware of the truth and then there's [50:42] people who [50:44] have the truth kept from them. Or, you [50:45] know, one of the people I interviewed [50:47] was Mike Mike Gold who was on the UAP uh [50:50] the NASA UAP task force. And he talked [50:53] about um how that [50:56] effort was was was flawed from the [50:59] start. They didn't want to have a result [51:01] that said NASA has all this information [51:03] that they've kept from the public. They [51:05] wanted the result that that they landed [51:07] on, which is there's nothing to see [51:08] here. And they were really discouraged [51:10] from um for example, the uh that that [51:13] image of a triangle [51:15] what clearly appears to be a triangle [51:16] craft over the moon, um [51:18] they were told not to not to include [51:21] that in their report. [51:23] Like they were they they they were not [51:25] set up to tell the world the truth. [51:28] There should be a button just down below [51:30] here. And if it says subscribe, you're [51:32] already subscribed. If it says subscribe [51:34] bar, that means you're not yet. And if [51:36] you're not subscribed, please could you [51:37] do us a favor and hit that button. It [51:38] helps to show more than you know. And [51:40] according to the algorithm, you're [51:41] someone that watches our show, but you [51:43] haven't yet hit that button. Thank you [51:44] so much. [51:46] In your view, is it possible that aliens [51:50] aren't [51:51] aren't real? Is it possible? [51:54] Possible. [51:55] >> I think I'm missing the question. [51:57] So, you think it's impossible? [51:58] >> Yeah, using the term alien, you know, [52:00] has a certain connotation about it. So, [52:02] we can certainly say, I mean, that the [52:04] evidence is absolutely clear that there [52:06] is some form of life with advanced [52:08] technology. You know, if you want to [52:10] say, "Well, what can I prove about about [52:13] it?" Well, that those are still unknowns [52:15] that we're trying to suss out. [52:18] I got access at a very high to a very [52:20] high level of the government, the [52:22] military intelligence community. And [52:23] there were a lot of people who talked to [52:24] me off the record that wouldn't go on [52:26] camera. There were a lot of people who [52:29] couldn't tell me about classified [52:30] information. I didn't want to know [52:31] classified information. [52:33] But, they all made it very clear, um, [52:36] not just on camera, but off the record, [52:38] that there that there is evidence at a [52:40] classified level that is clear as day, [52:43] like some video taken when like the [52:45] bubble is turned off and you can see a [52:48] a craft of non-human origin clear as [52:50] day. And there is evidence of the [52:53] technology that's been recovered and of [52:55] these bodies. And when you have when if [52:56] you put yourself in my shoes, when you [52:58] have so many senior people across the [53:00] military, government intelligence [53:01] community telling you this, it's it's [53:03] really just impossible to ignore it, [53:05] especially when most of them aren't even [53:06] friends. They're not like ideologically [53:08] aligned or politically aligned. They're [53:10] all just different groups of people. I'm [53:12] less compelled by eyewitnesses. This is [53:14] the problem cuz you know, I'm such a big [53:15] true crime fan. [53:17] >> [laughter] [53:17] >> I hear about all the bloody cases where [53:18] eyewitnesses said this and then they [53:20] find out the serial killer wasn't that [53:21] person or that thing didn't happen. So, [53:23] and I also just have my own experiences [53:25] of like thinking I saw things when I was [53:26] younger. Here's an interesting thing you [53:28] just made me think of. So, in the film, [53:30] uh, Rubio and General Jim Clapper, two [53:32] people who are completely ideologically [53:35] and politically opposed to each other, [53:37] made the same [53:38] really intelligent point. [53:41] And they both have knowledge at a a [53:43] classified level of the situation. [53:46] They both said [53:47] a problem we [53:49] as humans have [53:50] is that there's something in the human [53:52] psyche that says, I cannot wrap my head [53:55] around or prepare for things I haven't [53:58] seen or experienced, right? And time and [54:01] time again throughout history [54:03] that has proven to be like a human flaw, [54:05] right? Rubio goes on to say that the [54:08] greatest intelligence failures in US [54:10] history [54:11] come from a lack of imagination. And he [54:13] cites a few examples. He says, we never [54:16] would have imagined the Japanese could [54:19] figure out how to get torpedoes through [54:20] the straits and hit us at Pearl Harbor [54:22] until they did. Um he says we never [54:25] would have imagined terrorists would fly [54:27] to the homeland, learn to fly commercial [54:30] planes and then use them in a terrorist [54:31] attack until they did, right? Um he says [54:34] some other examples, too. But time and [54:36] time again, not wrapping our head around [54:38] a set of circumstances that and using [54:40] our imagination to think about what [54:41] might happen or what might be happening [54:44] has it's bit us in the ass. And he he [54:46] ends his line of thought by saying lack [54:48] of imagination leads to strategic [54:50] surprise like Pearl Harbor, like 9/11. [54:52] And sometimes strategic surprise changes [54:54] the course of history. Mhm. And so [54:57] you know, him and and other people I [54:58] interviewed think it's really important [55:00] to get ahead of this as opposed to [55:02] waiting for something to happen. As [55:03] opposed to waiting for, you know, to [55:05] find out the hard way that China, you [55:07] know, cracked this technology before us [55:08] and used it as in an act of war or uh [55:12] non-human intelligent life uh does [55:14] something unpredictable and then all of [55:16] a sudden the US government's on its [55:18] heels and so are other governments on [55:20] their heels explaining to the public [55:21] what they've known for a long time. I [55:23] I've often heard that the reason why [55:24] they don't tell the general public that [55:26] these things exist is because the [55:27] general public aren't ready for this [55:29] information. [55:31] Is that an argument? I've not really [55:33] heard you guys say that. [55:34] >> Yeah, no, people there are people [55:35] involved in [55:37] gatekeeping this information that don't [55:39] think the public can handle the truth. [55:40] Uh you know, Hal recently told me that [55:42] people in the legacy program are [55:43] pointing to the Age of Disclosure and [55:45] saying, "Look, this film reveals a lot [55:47] and people aren't losing their you [55:50] know? People aren't jumping out of [55:51] windows. It's not causing chaos in [55:52] society." Like the public can handle the [55:55] base facts. Of all the things you've [55:57] heard, Dan, what is the What was the [55:59] most compelling story or anecdote that [56:00] you heard that convinced you? [56:02] It was really just the sheer number of [56:05] very high-level military government [56:07] intelligence officials who were telling [56:09] me in in private settings to my face, [56:12] you know, [56:13] that at a classified level they know [56:16] with absolute certainty this is real. [56:18] But if you had to pick one story? Oh, I [56:20] mean, it's really it's really [56:22] it wasn't one It really wasn't one thing [56:24] for me. It was like it was the overall. [56:26] It's like, for example, I I interviewed [56:28] Rubio and Gillibrand Senator Gillibrand [56:29] on the same day. They both participated [56:32] in the film and did lengthy interviews [56:34] with me. And both looked me in the face [56:36] and told me they thought this was the [56:37] most important documentary that's ever [56:38] been made. And that this was really [56:40] important to bring this information out [56:42] in a thoughtful way to the public and [56:44] make them aware of what's happening. You [56:46] You can't like unhear stuff like that, [56:47] you know? [56:48] Um [56:49] and it makes it makes an impact on you. [56:51] What about you, Hal? What was the most [56:53] persuasive thing that you [56:55] that tipped you over the edge from a, [56:56] you know, maybe being agnostic to [56:58] believing that there are [56:59] non-human intelligent life amongst us? [57:03] Well, it's looking at the technology, [57:05] which is so advanced, [57:07] that I'm that I'm essentially certain [57:10] that no [57:11] uh us or our adversaries could have made [57:14] it. [57:15] So, somebody actually made it and it has [57:18] to be somebody who knows a lot more [57:20] about physics than we do. [57:22] I mean, there's there's there's nowhere [57:24] to go but to say, "Okay, there's [57:26] somebody who is way beyond [57:29] humans to develop that kind of [57:32] technology and display it. Of all the [57:34] evidence that's been released and all of [57:35] the rumors and videos and you know, [57:37] going back to the crop fields that we [57:39] used to hear about many years ago, [57:41] presumably there's lots of this stuff [57:43] that you don't believe. [57:44] That you think is nonsense. [57:46] >> definitely there's definitely [57:47] >> tons of them. [57:48] >> of reports that are that when you look [57:50] into them seem like for sure. [57:54] Because you know, one of the things [57:55] people often say is that alien encounter [57:57] descriptions perfectly match the pop [57:58] culture of that era. [58:00] So, people saw flying saucers in the in [58:02] the 1950s after sci-fi movies [58:04] popularized them and gray aliens in the [58:06] 1980s after books like Communion [58:10] popularized them. And this kind of [58:11] suggests that [58:13] sightings are born from human [58:14] imagination versus [58:16] Well, I I think I and I think that's a [58:18] reasonable uh [58:20] place to come to. I think I think a lot [58:22] of the reports that we get, [58:24] you know, we can generally set aside as [58:26] being, you know, just [58:28] manufactured by humans who get caught up [58:31] in the sort of [58:32] a give and take on social media and so [58:34] on. [58:35] But, nonetheless, when you really zero [58:38] in on actual evidence of technologies [58:41] and evidence of bodies, [58:43] there you can't just say it's uh [58:46] you know, it's just social contagion. [58:48] >> Yeah, when I think about the [58:49] technologies, when I watch like the Tic [58:50] Tac video, Mhm. it's kind of blurry. I [58:52] don't really know what I'm looking at. [58:54] Like there's this thing moving around on [58:56] the screen that's like black and white, [58:57] but I don't really know what I'm looking [58:59] at. And I think this has always been the [59:00] struggle with it is we're so used to [59:02] consuming content in high definition [59:05] that we can clearly and it it appears to [59:07] be the case that so many of these UAP [59:09] videos are like in the distance and kind [59:10] of blurry and vague. [59:12] So, it makes them harder to believe. And [59:15] I just I think we're all longing for [59:16] like a solid video. You talked about [59:18] them going in and out of the water. [59:20] How come someone's not got a You got If [59:22] someone like falls over and we we we [59:24] capture it all on camera these days. [59:26] CCTV cameras on every high street. Why [59:28] is there no like a solid video of [59:30] something going in the water and out of [59:32] the water? [59:32] >> Look, multiple people said on camera [59:35] they have seen with their own eyes [59:37] classified videos that are indisputable. [59:40] Um and some of them told me specifics [59:42] like that story I told you that the [59:43] first video Jay Stratton was shown when [59:45] he went down this rabbit hole. It was a [59:46] triangle craft hovering over a nuclear [59:48] weapon site. Uh Air Force security [59:51] guards had filmed it on a little VHS [59:52] camera that they had. It was It was [59:54] hovering long enough for them to do [59:55] that. You know, that kind of evidence [59:56] exists, but it's just still classified. [59:58] Will it be coming out, do you think? I I [60:00] I hope so. I I I know this process is [60:02] playing out right now where people like [60:04] like Jay Stratton are helping the [60:05] administration find where the evidence [60:08] exists so they can get their hands on it [60:10] and then determine whether it can safely [60:12] be declassified. Like that process is [60:14] definitely playing out right now. Do you [60:16] think Do you trust the Trump [60:17] administration to release all of the [60:19] available information? I I don't think [60:21] it's a question of do we trust the [60:23] current administration will release it. [60:25] It's do we think all these federal [60:27] agencies and branches of the military [60:29] are going to turn [60:31] over the evidence they have to the [60:33] administration. That's the question. And [60:35] the jury's still out on that. They're [60:36] They're not right now. They're pushing [60:37] back. [60:38] And they're pushing back hard. And [60:40] that's why the administration is working [60:42] with people like Stratton like Jay [60:43] Stratton who who who have who over 16 [60:46] years has learned where a lot of this [60:47] evidence is. Um they're working with [60:49] people like him to find out where the [60:51] evidence sits, who who's gatekeeping it [60:54] at each of these different [60:54] organizations, and how to get to it. Um [60:58] so they're doing They're doing a [60:59] fact-finding mission right now. [61:06] Woah. What's that on your face? This is [61:08] a My Bond Charge face mask. I've been [61:10] wearing this for some time now. They're [61:11] a sponsor of the podcast. I put this on [61:12] for 15 20 minutes a day. I can sit here [61:15] in the chair and wear it. Boost my [61:17] collagen production. Helps with fine [61:18] lines, blemishes. My complexion gets [61:19] better. And then people more people [61:21] listen to the podcast cuz I I look [61:22] better. Professional-grade equipment in [61:24] such a small box. It's non-invasive. 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[62:05] If it is released, if all the [62:06] information that you've heard from your [62:07] witnesses is released, if they release, [62:10] you know, craft alien craft, and they [62:12] release alien bodies and all of these [62:14] things, how do you imagine the world [62:16] would be different? I think it will lead [62:20] to a giant technology boom. I think once [62:24] we're told, "Hey, there's this [62:25] technology that exists that could [62:27] revolutionize the way we live, you know, [62:29] it could lead to anti-gravity [62:31] technology. It could lead to [62:32] solve new energy sources, solve the [62:34] energy crisis overnight, right?" Could [62:37] lead to interstellar travel and going [62:39] farther out, you know. And I think it'd [62:41] have a great psychological effect uh [62:43] because, you know, you suddenly [62:46] uh you go from the point of saying, [62:47] "Well, maybe we're the only intelligent [62:49] species in the universe." And then you [62:51] suddenly get the idea that [62:53] uh this is a universe full of life. [62:56] >> What does that mean for religion? [62:58] I think all dogmas will just apply to [63:00] it, you know. And I think that the [63:01] Vatican's already gotten ahead of it and [63:03] said, you know, they put out a message a [63:05] couple years ago that basically the the [63:07] the gist of it was, you know, God's [63:09] God's universe and God's work is vast [63:11] and, you know, [63:12] >> and you couldn't you couldn't uh [63:15] you know, say that he he wouldn't have [63:17] the ability to do that. I mean [63:18] >> Yeah. [63:20] So I I I I I I I [63:20] >> from a religious standpoint [63:23] and certainly in the case of the [63:24] Catholic Church [63:26] they've had uh very positive views about [63:30] population being throughout Yeah. And [63:32] there's nothing really at least from the [63:34] Catholic Church's perspective, there's [63:36] nothing that counters the you know it [63:38] does that doesn't allow you to wrap your [63:40] head around the fact that there's other [63:41] life out there, you know? Are you guys [63:43] religious? Not like overly religious, [63:44] but like you know I my my my mom's Irish [63:47] and and grew up going to Catholic school [63:49] and I you know I went to a CCD and you [63:51] know Sunday school is the it's called a [63:53] CCD where I grew up. [63:55] Um but uh [63:56] >> in God? I do. I do. Do you believe in I [63:58] do too. Yeah. I'm a practicing Catholic, [64:00] so So would that mean that you believe [64:02] God has made all of these [64:04] aliens as well? That's my that's what my [64:07] worldview is. [64:07] >> Yeah, I would think that I couldn't say [64:09] that's not the case. [64:10] But you know, as a scientist I can't [64:12] prove that that it is the case, but [64:15] you know, just just on the statistics of [64:17] it it's pretty likely. [64:20] You know, an interesting thing happening [64:22] right now Steven too is these people who [64:24] have been gatekeeping the truth. [64:26] Um a lot of them are afraid to come [64:28] forward and tell the White House what [64:30] they know because they they think [64:31] they're going to be villainized. They [64:32] they think the optics around this are [64:36] such that like if someone's been [64:38] covering this up, they're they're [64:40] they're they're the villain of the [64:41] story, right? And so [64:43] um the White House and the Director of [64:46] National Intelligence and the Department [64:49] of War realized this and so in the last [64:52] couple of weeks they've been messaging [64:53] out to the military and the intelligence [64:54] community [64:56] that this is not a witch hunt, it's not [64:57] an endeavor to punish anyone. They want [65:00] to encourage people to come forward, [65:01] they assure them there will be no no [65:03] punishment uh for being involved in [65:05] gatekeeping this. They just want to [65:06] learn the truth and find out where the [65:08] real evidence sits. So that's another [65:10] thing that's playing out right now that [65:12] I think if it gets out there enough, uh [65:14] it will lead to more people coming [65:15] forward with that [65:17] that evidence we all want to see. Yep. [65:20] Earlier on we you talked about how some [65:22] people feel like their lives are at risk [65:24] because of what they know. [65:26] Has there been any instance of anyone [65:27] being punished for saying anything in [65:28] this regard? [65:30] Well, certainly having having their [65:32] clearances pulled or losing their up [65:36] opportunities for advancement, uh [65:39] we we've heard stories like that from [65:41] from several people in the intelligence [65:43] community. Is there any Is there anyone [65:44] you can name that has said that they [65:46] were threatened or punished or in some [65:49] form because of what they know? [65:51] >> the the number one whistleblower for for [65:53] many people has been David Grusch. [65:55] And so he has uh outlined the various [65:59] steps taken against him to [66:02] basically ruin his career significantly [66:05] enough that he went to the Inspector [66:07] General of the intelligence community [66:10] and said, [66:11] "I'm being punished, shoved aside, [66:14] losing clearances, and so on because I [66:16] came out with this data." And they said, [66:18] "Well, [66:19] what you provided us is, you know, [66:21] serious, worthy of consideration." [66:23] >> And I think a lot of people have had [66:24] their lives threatened. Um I'm not [66:26] certain if if anyone has been killed, um [66:30] but I know people have had their lives [66:32] threatened. Yeah. [66:34] And who's threatening them? [66:36] People that are involved um [66:39] in [66:40] this this program, referred to as the [66:42] legacy program. Who think that the [66:44] evidence should not ever come out. [66:47] This legacy program. So this is a [66:49] program run within the US government? [66:53] To it. US government [66:54] >> Elements of elements of it, uh and also [66:57] defense contractors. [66:59] >> And you think the legacy program knows [67:02] the truth on this regard? [67:03] Yes, because they have the first-hand [67:06] evidence of the crash materials and the [67:09] bodies. [67:11] There's 80 years of data that this [67:14] this [67:15] group has. [67:17] And they haven't released or leaked that [67:19] data for the last 80 years. [67:21] There'd be no advantage. No one's hacked [67:23] it. This This program is the epitome of [67:26] a special access program. I think this [67:28] program is as off the grid as it it [67:30] could possibly be. [67:32] It almost seems like there's nothing [67:33] that eventually hasn't come to come to [67:35] light that the government have done. [67:36] Like I've sat here and interviewed a lot [67:37] of CIA spies [67:39] who've told me the history of the CIA [67:41] and this program that lasted for 12 [67:42] years and then it comes out and this [67:44] program and I mean even some of the [67:46] stuff that I've heard you talk about how [67:47] around um [67:48] what's it called? Remote viewing. Remote [67:50] viewing. Remote viewing. Yeah. That was [67:52] that CIA project? That was CIA. What is [67:54] remote viewing? Remote viewing, well, [67:56] the the the CIA suddenly got concerned [67:59] because they saw that the the Soviets [68:01] were spending millions of dollars at [68:03] some of their best institutes to [68:05] investigate the possible use of quote [68:07] ESP. What's ESP? Psychic ability. [68:10] >> Yeah. Psychic abilities, extrasensory [68:12] perception. [68:14] And so as it turns out I was at Stanford [68:16] Research Institute and they saw my [68:19] background. They they came to me and [68:21] said, you know, [68:22] "We'd like for you to to look into this. [68:24] Is there anything to this? I mean no um [68:27] scientist in America even believes there [68:29] is such thing as ESP." Who came to you? [68:32] CIA. [68:33] This is This is in the '70s. [68:34] >> Yeah. The CIA [68:35] >> Back in the '70s. [68:36] >> approached you in the '70s and asked you [68:38] to investigate remote viewing. That's [68:39] right. And so they asked me to set up a [68:42] small program and 50 or 60 K or [68:45] whatever. They said, you know, "We hope [68:47] you'll find this is all nonsense. We can [68:48] forget about it. We don't have to worry [68:50] about it." [68:51] And it grew into, you know, more than a [68:53] two-decade program, millions of dollars. [68:56] Stargate is [68:58] the label for it that most people know [68:59] about because by now most of the [69:02] information in the program came out. And [69:04] basically it we just we just found that [69:07] the people [69:08] essentially just like you have artistic [69:11] ability or athletic ability or whatever, [69:14] musical ability. [69:16] Well, we found out that remote viewing, [69:18] this ability to sit in a location and [69:22] pick up information from some place far [69:24] away uh is a talent that many people [69:28] could demonstrate. And so we ended up [69:31] actually training Army intelligence [69:34] officers at the Army Intelligence and [69:35] Security Command at Fort Meade [69:38] how to do this. And so So wait, let me [69:40] just simplify this for the audience that [69:41] might not fully understand what we're [69:44] talking about. So remote viewing is the [69:45] idea that I could sit here in London [69:46] where we are now and I could be trained [69:49] to see what was going on in another part [69:52] of the world. [69:53] >> your mind's eye go to a remote location. [69:56] >> I'll give you [clears throat] a specific [69:57] example. A Soviet plane that CIA wanted [70:01] to get hold of went down somewhere in [70:03] Africa. [70:04] And they didn't they didn't know where [70:06] because the pilot had bailed out and it [70:08] just went on until it ran out of gas. So [70:11] we got two of our quote best remote [70:13] viewers, one that worked for the Air [70:15] Force and one that worked for my [70:17] organization to say, "Okay, here's a map [70:20] of Africa. Where's that damn plane? We [70:22] got to go in and get it." [70:24] And they put an X on the map that was in [70:26] 3 miles of where the plane went down out [70:28] of the hundreds of thousands of square [70:30] miles. And so the CIA went and it got [70:32] the plane. So I mean it was, you know, [70:34] how do they do that? Well, By the way, [70:36] there's an audio recording of President [70:38] Jimmy Carter telling that story. [70:39] >> Yeah. [70:41] Hm. Post post [clears throat] [70:42] presidency. [70:43] Maybe we should play that. [70:45] One time we had a a small plane go down [70:48] somewhere in Africa. We were not able to [70:51] find it by surveillance from our [70:54] satellites. So the director of the CIA, [70:57] he was also director of all the [70:59] intelligence agencies, [71:01] heard about a uh [71:03] a woman in California that uh was a [71:06] medium. And he uh contacted her, and she [71:11] gave him the [71:14] latitude and longitude of the plane's [71:17] whereabouts. And the next time one of [71:19] our space satellites went over that [71:22] area, we located the plane where she [71:24] said it was. Again, this sounds like [71:26] it's impossible. Sounds like I give It [71:29] sounds completely bananas. It sounds [71:30] like something out of an X-Men comic [71:32] book. It sounds crazy. But Well, I was [71:35] okay. It is You want to be really [71:37] practical about it. Uh [71:39] you know, they they often our skeptics [71:41] would say, "Well, if they're so psychic, [71:43] why aren't they rich? Why aren't they in [71:44] the stock market or whatever?" [71:47] So, we set up a little program on on a [71:49] challenge to predict silver futures. To [71:52] predict to predict what? Silver futures. [71:54] >> Just the value of silver? The value of [71:55] silver silver on a daily basis was it [71:57] going to go up or go down? [72:00] So, we had somebody said, "Okay, I I [72:02] will if you'll set up a little program [72:04] like that for 30 days, I'll bet on what [72:06] your quote remote viewers say, [72:09] and I'll put the money in, and I'll give [72:11] you 10% of what I make." So, I said, [72:13] "Okay, fine." Now, long story short, uh [72:16] made um [72:18] $260,000 [72:19] in the 30 days. We got our 10%, which is [72:23] $26,000. [72:24] So, people could actually [72:27] in this case even look into the future a [72:29] day and [72:32] generate a description of what they were [72:34] going to see and handle the following [72:35] day. Presumably not everybody. How many [72:38] people did you have [72:39] do that? [72:39] >> We had [72:41] uh seven in that experiment. [72:42] >> And how many of them were successful in [72:44] generating [72:44] >> Six of the seven [72:46] uh generated really good data. So, were [72:48] those six of people now rich? [72:51] Well, I don't I don't know. Uh some of [72:53] them may may have followed up. They [72:55] don't Why were those six people picked? [72:58] Since we had learned that sort of [73:00] anybody can do this, uh [73:02] we were actually raising money for a [73:05] school that was being put together. So, [73:08] I just went to the board of directors [73:09] and said, "Okay, I'm going to give you a [73:11] crash course over the weekend in {quote} [73:13] remote viewing of the type we train [73:16] intelligence officers to do." [73:18] And [73:19] so, you're going to be it. [73:21] So, you just it was the board of The [73:23] school. [73:23] >> The board board of the school. Okay. [73:25] They all knew what I did for a living [73:27] and so This program Stargate got [73:30] so much [73:31] actionable intelligence from the remote [73:33] viewers that Hal started briefing at the [73:35] time the director of the CIA on a [73:37] regular basis. [73:38] >> have briefed all the way up to Bill [73:39] Casey, the director of the CIA. So, does [73:42] it still exist, this program? [73:44] In any capacity? Uh remote viewing? If [73:46] it does, you wouldn't hear about it. [73:48] Why? [73:50] Because [73:52] it'd be a best black highly classified [73:54] program. Why? [73:56] Because we don't want our adversaries to [73:57] know how we might be getting access to [74:00] their data. You just told us. [74:02] But people can not believe that, and [74:04] that's fine. But aren't you under some [74:06] sort of contract? [74:08] Well, as it turns out, the CIA and and [74:10] DIA, also went to the DIA, that program [74:13] finally got declassified [74:16] at the level that was operating at, and [74:18] that you can go to the CIA reading room [74:21] and you can get all the documents. All [74:22] of So, your work was originally [74:25] classified? Oh, it was originally top [74:27] secret special access program. Yeah. [74:31] There's a part of me that goes, "Listen, [74:32] if people could do remote viewing and [74:34] see, you know, into other parts of the [74:37] world or predict the things that you're [74:38] saying, [74:40] I mean, [74:41] if if if it was trainable, [74:44] everything the life as we know it would [74:47] be completely flipped on its head. [74:49] >> I think it's unreasonable to think that [74:51] when Stargate became public, the US [74:53] government stopped [74:57] remote viewing. I mean, I wouldn't stop [74:59] if I was the US government. If if it [75:00] worked, I wouldn't stop. [75:01] >> it just went underground, moved to a [75:02] different agency. [75:03] >> Yeah, went underground. [75:05] So you were training people to do it, [75:06] though. [75:07] Yeah. We Well, we had Yeah, we had we [75:09] had people that we trained. So train me. [75:13] >> [laughter] [75:13] >> Yeah. How do you train me? Well, now a [75:16] number of the uh military intelligence [75:18] officers that we trained have now left [75:20] the military, and they do have training [75:23] courses. [75:24] Do you Do you believe it? [75:26] I do. At first, I thought it just [75:28] sounded too much like something in a [75:29] comic book, right? But [75:32] the more I first read about Stargate in [75:35] the declassified documents, started to [75:36] realize how serious the government took [75:38] it, and the more I learned about it [75:41] through Hal, and then eventually [75:43] um I really don't want to get into the [75:45] details of this, but eventually [75:47] um I got connected with someone who has [75:49] done remote viewing for the government, [75:50] and they did a demonstration for me that [75:53] blew my mind. [75:54] Cuz you would think if anyone was [75:55] capable of doing remote viewing, they [75:57] could go on the internet and make one [76:00] prediction or do one video that would [76:02] be, you know, proven to be true, and [76:04] they would literally be considered to be [76:07] a superhuman. [76:08] Like they would literally be [76:11] I mean, people would probably think they [76:12] were a deity or a [76:13] or a spiritual leader or something. [76:15] Well, if one person could do remote [76:16] viewing [76:17] >> was that it seems to be an act action [76:21] that [76:22] is just part of the human makeup. [76:24] And so it isn't like they're super deity [76:27] or god-like or really off the charts. [76:30] It's something that people can learn to [76:31] do, like they can learn to play the [76:33] piano or whatever it is for whatever [76:35] reason. Maybe it was a skill set that [76:37] anyone [76:37] >> new uh [76:39] you know, psychiatrists and [76:40] neurophysiologists [76:42] beginning to study, you know, how does [76:44] consciousness do its thing in the brain [76:47] and so on and [76:48] are there elements of it once you get [76:51] into quantum theory and quantum [76:52] entanglement that would say you could [76:54] have evidence, [76:56] you know, beyond just our physical [76:58] structure. [76:59] >> Like it could be rationalized with like [77:00] a quantum connection basically that that [77:02] the moving your mind's eye to another [77:03] location which also goes to like, you [77:06] know, Hal's life very interestingly, you [77:08] know, first was the Stargate stuff and [77:10] then he got into UAP and the overlap [77:12] that I find fascinating is some of these [77:15] craft that have been found or crashes [77:19] that have happened. [77:21] The reports from people involved say [77:23] that a lot of them don't have any [77:24] control panels in them. Mhm. Like [77:27] they're basically empty other than seats [77:29] which suggests that maybe there's some [77:31] sort of mind connection controlling [77:34] these craft. I did wonder about the [77:36] crafts. So I thought, you know, if I was [77:37] an advanced civilization, why would I [77:39] and I was that small, why would I send [77:41] life to these planets when I could just [77:42] send the crafts? [77:44] You know, why am I sending biological [77:46] life when I could just send the Maybe [77:47] they're manufactured biological life. [77:49] Maybe it's maybe they're the equivalent. [77:50] Maybe they're not sentient. [77:52] Yeah. [77:53] It's true. But the remote viewing stuff [77:55] opens up a lot of possibilities if Yeah, [77:57] I mean we as part of this CIA program, [78:00] we found that [78:02] people could [78:04] affect quantum devices that were [78:07] totally shielded by superconducting [78:09] shielding. Tell them Tell them that [78:10] particular story. That's a Yeah, we we [78:13] uh [78:14] there's a quote psychic so-called and uh [78:18] so I brought him to Stanford and I was [78:20] skeptical at the time and uh I said, [78:23] "Okay, well, we've got this super [78:24] experiment where there's tiny quantum [78:28] chip down inside of this electrical [78:31] shielding, magnetic shielding, [78:32] superconducting shielding. We We to see [78:35] if you can affect it. [78:38] And he did. I mean, this is supposed to [78:40] be totally non-affectable [78:43] from by anything on the outside. In [78:45] fact, it was developed by the Navy to [78:48] just look for corks and stuff like that. [78:50] And so, it was supposed to not be [78:53] influenced from the outside by anything. [78:56] And he influenced it. And when I say he [78:58] influenced it, I'm not just saying [78:59] there's a little blip that, you know, [79:01] you could kind of read into it. No, it [79:04] it was a system where [79:06] it ordinarily just had an oscillating [79:08] signal like that. And then when he [79:10] affected it, it just stopped the [79:11] oscillation. [79:13] And then he could also make the [79:14] oscillation go twice as fast. Of course, [79:17] for a graduate student whose life [79:18] depended on this not being [79:20] affected from the outside, you know, [79:22] really. [79:23] But then they uh they [79:25] that that that raised a big issue for [79:27] them. That means uh gee, does that mean [79:29] if we put if we hide our documents [79:31] inside of superconducting safes, uh the [79:33] Russians might be able to [79:35] So, actually when we had detente, the [79:38] American remote viewers got together [79:40] with the Soviet remote viewers and [79:42] traded war stories. [79:44] Did experiments together for You know, [79:47] I'm I think I'm naturally skeptical cuz [79:49] I'm skeptical with all things, but I'm [79:50] often proven wrong. [79:52] So, you know, my fiance, she um she [79:54] believes lots of things I don't believe. [79:56] And so so frequently she's been proven [79:57] right in those things that I remain [79:59] open-minded [80:01] to things in life [80:03] cuz I've learned to. [80:05] So, I think that's where I remain. I [80:07] remain open-minded. [80:08] And I think on the balance of [80:09] probability, if you ask me, do I think [80:11] there's other life in the universe? I [80:13] think it would be crazy to say there [80:14] wasn't. Right. Right. But it but [80:16] [clears throat] has there been life that [80:17] has arrived here that we've recovered? I [80:19] just I would need more evidence. Is [80:22] there [80:23] >> I I think I think that's the right [80:24] attitude. And we're hoping that uh with [80:27] the [80:28] release of documents that's starting to [80:30] happen now, [80:32] that you'll get that evidence, but in [80:34] the absence of actually [80:36] getting access to the evidence, it's [80:38] very reasonable that to be skeptical. [80:40] Yeah, absolutely. [80:41] >> I do think though that [80:43] the current administration in the US [80:46] is so focused on following through with [80:48] this directive the president gave to [80:51] to get [80:52] all the evidence within the possession [80:53] of the federal government, all different [80:55] agencies, military branches, and then [80:57] figure out what can be declassified. I [80:58] think they're taking it so serious that [80:59] we're going to we're going to get to [81:01] more tranches of more meaningful [81:02] evidence. And I think eventually we'll [81:04] get to that thing that we that moment [81:06] that we've all only seen in movies where [81:07] a sitting president steps to a [81:09] microphone and tells the world we're not [81:10] alone in the universe. I think I think [81:11] we're going to get there. [81:13] I think so, too. [81:16] Just a matter of time. [81:18] Does it change the meaning of life if [81:19] that becomes the case? Does it Does it [81:21] mean anything for us as humans? [81:23] What do you think the meaning of life [81:24] is, How? And do you think it we should [81:26] change our behavior in any way even if [81:28] this [81:29] moment does occur? I think if we found [81:31] out that there were life throughout the [81:33] universe that it's [81:36] it can be developed in all kinds of [81:37] forms [81:38] then then that makes us [81:41] take a new look at well, what does it [81:42] mean to be human? You know, we ought to [81:45] think about if we can interacting with [81:47] these other species and seeing what we [81:50] can learn from them and [81:51] what might they learn from us? And so, [81:53] it just opens up a whole new sort of [81:56] view of what the universe is like. I [81:59] mean, I've got I've [snorts] got 15 [82:01] grandkids. They should grow up in a [82:02] universe where it's teeming with life [82:05] and they know that and that's a very [82:08] kind of an exciting kind of thing. I [82:10] think it also could be the one thing [82:11] that could unify all of humanity. [82:14] You know, Reagan gave a great speech [82:15] during his presidency at the United [82:17] Nations where he said he often thinks [82:19] that it might be a threat from outside [82:22] this universe that makes all of humanity [82:24] come together and think more about what [82:26] it has in common than than its [82:28] differences. [82:29] Um and you know, it moves them past the [82:32] the the the conflicts of the moment. And [82:35] that might be, you know, wishful [82:36] thinking and might be naive, but it also [82:38] might actually be the one thing that [82:41] could that could line people up. How's [82:43] it changed how you think about the [82:45] the meaning of life? Between what I've [82:47] learned about the the reality of the UAP [82:50] situation and the existence of non-human [82:51] intelligent life, what I've learned [82:53] about, for example, remote viewing, it's [82:55] made me realize that our sort of Western [82:59] present-day view of reality is not [83:02] complete. You know, we think we know [83:03] everything there is [83:05] you know, to life and and how things [83:07] work and we just don't. And when you're [83:09] honest with yourself and you look back [83:10] at history, all the times people thought [83:12] that they were they were proven wrong [83:14] pretty quickly. [83:15] Right. And so it's made me open to a lot [83:17] more possibilities um than than I would [83:20] have been just just 10 years ago. [83:23] Do you think it could be a a renaissance [83:25] in in our attitudes toward life and and [83:28] everything? Yeah. Are you both open to [83:30] being wrong? [83:32] Yeah, look, I should have said this [83:33] early on. When I first started making my [83:35] documentary, I was totally prepared to [83:38] have people tell me, "Look, this is all [83:40] It was all cover for our [83:42] classified projects." Did they? No, no [83:45] one did. That was the crazy thing. Not [83:46] not a single person did. I would I was [83:48] trying to pull it out of people. I'd be [83:50] like, [83:51] you know, "Come on, this is really this [83:53] is like a black project then on an on [83:55] acknowledged special access program, [83:56] right? Like just just say nothing if [83:58] that's the case." And they're like, "No, [84:00] dude. Not not even close." Like it was [84:02] over and over and and these weren't [84:04] random people. These were really senior [84:06] people on the Senate Intelligence [84:07] Committee, on the Senate Armed Services [84:08] Committee, um [84:10] leaders in in the intelligence [84:12] community, leaders in in in the [84:13] military. And so, [84:16] yeah. [84:17] It's hard to ignore. Yeah. Well, [84:19] Trump has released the first round of [84:21] the UAP reports. Um so I guess in many [84:24] respects this conversation is to be [84:26] continued. Yeah. Yeah. And we we we have [84:28] been told by our friends in government [84:30] that the next tranche of evidence is [84:31] likely to come out in the next 30 days [84:33] or so. And it's going to be a rolling [84:36] declassification process. So there'll be [84:38] a lot more to talk about in the near [84:39] future. Thank you so much for your time. [84:41] Really appreciate it. I feel very [84:43] curious. Yeah. Very very curious and I I [84:46] highly recommend people go check out [84:47] your documentary. I'm going to link it [84:48] below. Um and I think one of the great [84:50] things about the documentary is the [84:51] diversity of people you've spoken to [84:53] including Marco Rubio who is what now [84:55] working alongside President Trump and [84:57] many others including yourself Hal. Um [84:59] and other guests that I've like people [85:00] like Jay who um I hope to speak to you [85:02] sometime soon. Cool. Thank you for [85:04] having us and thank [clears throat] you [85:05] for bringing attention to interesting [85:07] topics like this. I really do think [85:09] you know, you know, people like you are [85:10] are helping open people's minds. You [85:12] know, in the past we only had you know, [85:14] it wasn't that long ago there's only [85:15] four TV networks, right? And a small [85:18] group of legacy media people controlled [85:19] what people thought about really. So [85:21] people like you are opening up [85:22] everyone's minds to other possibilities [85:24] and other information and so thank you. [85:26] >> Yeah, it's it's it's interesting cuz [85:29] again so sometimes I I think I have to [85:31] remind the audience of like why I do [85:32] what I do and why I pick the subjects [85:34] that I pick. But it's honestly just what [85:35] I'm curious about. And if if something [85:38] rises in public curiosity and it's in my [85:40] my curiosity then I'll speak about it. [85:41] It's not an endorsement of me believing [85:43] everything. It is just me wanting to [85:46] learn more. Yeah. And I you know, I I [85:48] wish we lived in a society that was more [85:50] open-minded generally to the people on [85:51] the other side of the aisle or to [85:53] subjects that are currently considered [85:54] to be I don't know, controversial or or [85:57] or not because you know, it's not lost [85:59] on me that my own very existence as a [86:02] black businessman [86:04] is in of itself um something that was [86:06] once a very controversial idea. [86:09] And so I'm all for you know, [86:11] uh controversial ideas being having some [86:14] kind of space to be [86:15] >> Every major breakthrough in the history [86:17] of humanity came from someone being [86:19] curious, right? And wanting to learn [86:20] about something they weren't aware of. [86:22] So, I I think great things will come out [86:24] of it. And and and you just touched on [86:25] something we didn't mention, which is I [86:27] found, shockingly, that this is the the [86:30] UAP issue, non-human subtle life, is the [86:32] most bipartisan issue in Washington, [86:35] D.C. At a time when Democrats and [86:37] Republicans in the United States can't [86:38] agree on anything, they're completely [86:40] lined up on this being the biggest issue [86:42] of our time. Extremely significant. And [86:45] like that says a lot, too, you know? [86:47] Yeah. [86:47] To be continued. [86:48] >> To be continued. YouTube have this new [86:50] crazy algorithm where they know exactly [86:52] what video you would like to watch next [86:54] based on AI and all of your viewing [86:56] behavior. And the algorithm says that [86:58] this video is the perfect video for you. [87:01] It's different for everybody looking [87:02] right now. Check this video out, I bet [87:05] you you might love it.