Picard Linking Mitochondrial Energy Friction to Cancer and Gray Hair

Picard将线粒体能量摩擦与癌症及白发联系起来 慢性心理压力会提高细胞能量阻力，迫使线粒体将能量从组织维护与修复转移至基本生存。 在这场深度访谈中，Martin Picard博士提出了“能量阻力”这一概念，认为它是驱动代谢性疾病、癌症和认知能力下降的核心机制。他解释了线粒体如何作为细胞内的集体大脑运作，将食物转化为电能，以及心理压力或暴饮暴食如何破坏这一精细的回路。讨论详细列举了开创性证据，表明当压力水平消退时，像白发这样的细胞衰老标志物具有高度的可塑性和可逆性。最后，访谈概述了代谢精神病学、身体运动以及树立强烈的目标感如何能够优化线粒体容量并促进细胞修复。 线粒体不仅是将食物与氧气转化为电能、体温和 ATP 的能量中枢，更扮演着分布式的“细胞内大脑”，能敏锐感知压力激素与微环境以协调细胞命运。 (15:59) 头发如同记录人体代谢历史的年轮，研究证实白发过程具有可塑性且可逆，在压力解除与代谢恢复后，未彻底老化的毛囊可重新合成黑色素。 (31:04) 压力激素皮质醇会使单细胞能量消耗激增达 60%，迫使身体将有限的能量预算优先调拨给生存防御，从而削减用于组织修复及抗衰维保的能量配额。 (35:32) 当能量需求超过线粒体流转能力时会产生“能量抵抗”并加剧氧化损伤；而在癌变过程中，细胞会放弃线粒体呼吸转为厌氧发酵（瓦氏效应），退回只顾自主增殖的原始生存状态。 (20:36)

Mitochondrial biologist Dr. Martin Picard argues that human vitality, aging, and chronic disease are fundamentally governed by cellular energy allocation and mitochondrial resistance rather than mere calorie intake or genetic determinism. His research illustrates how managing psychological stress and metabolic friction preserves finite cellular energy for vital repair, maintenance, and longevity. Mitochondria as Computational Cellular Batteries (14:54) Mitochondria convert digested food substrates and inhaled oxygen into electrical gradients across their folded inner membranes, known as cristae. This stored potential synthesizes adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the universal chemical currency powering cellular tasks such as muscular contraction. When physical or metabolic exertion accelerates ATP demand, oxygen consumption rises rapidly to maintain this electron circuit. Beyond generating energy, Dr. Picard emphasizes that mitochondria operate as a distributed intracellular computational network. Originating from ancient aerobic bacteria that entered into symbiosis with larger anaerobic cells roughly 1.5 billion years ago, mitochondria retain outer surface receptors that continuously monitor metabolic fuels and circulating stress hormones. This allows them to gauge environmental threats, communicate between organ systems, and execute critical cellular survival decisions. Energy Resistance and Chronic Disease (19:04) Dr. Picard proposes that energy resistance represents the unifying foundation of common metabolic and degenerative pathologies, including type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer's disease (frequently termed "Type 3 Diabetes"). When excessive metabolic fuel bombards cells beyond their capacity to process or expend it through physical activity, electron flow stalls. High-energy electrons leak from the respiratory chain, generating reactive oxygen species (ROS) and driving cumulative oxidative stress. To shield delicate internal organelles from nutrient overload, cells downregulate surface insulin receptors, creating insulin resistance. Excess circulating energy is consequently shunted into adipose tissue as a secondary protective buffer rather than acting as the primary disease driver. In oncological development, Picard notes that cancer cells actively discard functional mitochondrial signaling. By suppressing mitochondrial-driven apoptosis (programmed cell death), transformed cells revert to an ancestral, selfish survival state that evades systemic quality control. Stress Hierarchy and Reversible Gray Hair (35:32) The human body manages energy under a strict hierarchy analogous to Maslow's pyramid of needs: immediate survival functions take precedence, while tissue repair, growth, and anti-aging maintenance occupy the top, most dispensable tier. Experiments conducted in Dr. Picard's laboratory revealed that exposing human cells to cortisol concentrations mimicking psychological worry escalated baseline cellular energy expenditure by 60% simply to maintain a state of threat vigilance. This diversion of energy directly influences aging hallmarks such as gray hair. Molecular analyses show that graying hair follicles contain more mitochondria rather than fewer, reflecting a hyperactive, inefficient struggle to survive metabolic strain. Using the Hair Pigmentation Pattern (HPP) mapping method, Picard tracked single hair strands that lost pigment during documented two-month periods of extreme psychological distress and regained natural color within a single week once the stressor ceased, demonstrating that cellular aging markers can reverse when metabolic overhead drops below critical thresholds. Systemic Distress Signaling and Chronic Exhaustion (109:00) When peripheral cells undergo severe mitochondrial resistance or energy failure, they release the biomarker GDF15 (Growth Differentiation Factor 15) into circulation. GDF15 receptors exist exclusively within the brainstem's area postrema, the brain's control center for nausea and survival reflexes. Upon binding, GDF15 triggers "sickness behavior"—inducing central fatigue, low motivation, and social withdrawal to enforce physical immobilization while mobilizing peripheral lipids and glucose. Dr. Picard highlights that 14-year data from the UK Biobank associate chronically elevated GDF15 with heightened incidence of cardiovascular disease, psychiatric disorders, and all-cause mortality. In complex conditions such as Myalgic Encephalomyelitis / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) and Long COVID, muscle biopsies demonstrate impaired mitochondrial capacity. Standard physical exertion overburdens this fragile respiratory chain, precipitating post-exertional malaise (PEM) and inflammatory spikes that standard diagnostic blood panels routinely fail to capture. Purpose, Hormesis, and Calibrating Energy Efficiency (102:35) Post-mortem evaluations from a longitudinal Chicago study revealed that individuals who reported a high sense of psychological purpose throughout life possessed prefrontal cortex mitochondria with significantly higher energy transformation capacity at death. Dr. Picard notes that alignment and purpose create coherent energy flow, lowering internal friction so the body achieves sustained output without exhausting cellular reserves. Conversely, metabolic interventions operate under a biphasic dose-response curve (hormesis). For example, red light therapy stimulates the mitochondrial enzyme cytochrome c oxidase to accelerate electron flow and blunt post-meal blood sugar spikes, but excessive exposure triggers phototoxicity, overwhelming antioxidant defenses with ROS and inducing apoptosis. Picard advises cultivating "mitoception"—the somatic awareness of one's own energetic state—over reliance on supplements like NAD+ boosters or population-average clinical trial guidelines that obscure individual metabolic variations. While Dr. Picard's framework positions mitochondrial bioenergetics as the core determinant of aging and chronic illness, clinical application remains limited by standard medical tests that measure chemical abundance rather than energetic flow. Translating these findings into personalized medicine will require validating subjective somatic awareness alongside objective bioenergetic profiling across diverse metabolic profiles and both sexes.

哥伦比亚大学线粒体生物学学者马丁·皮卡德（Dr. Martin Picard）提出，人体的衰老进程、日常活力与慢性疾病本质上取决于有限生物能量的分配与流动机制。他认为，心理压力与代谢过载会导致“能量阻力”，迫使细胞将原本用于抗衰老与组织修复的能量挪用于生存防御，进而诱发白发生成、代谢性疾病及慢性疲劳。 线粒体网络与能量阻力疾病模型 (19:04) 皮卡德指出，线粒体不仅是利用氧气和营养物质合成三磷酸腺苷（ATP）的微型充电电池，更是细胞内的“分布式大脑”。线粒体外膜密布各类受体，持续感知压力激素与燃料储备，并在细胞间形成协同通讯网络。这一生物结构起源于约15亿年前好氧细菌与厌氧宿主细胞的内共生，使多细胞生物具备了感知环境与分工协作的能力。 基于此，皮卡德提出了以“能量阻力”（energy resistance）为核心的疾病统一解释框架：当机体摄入过量代谢能量（如长期高血糖）且缺乏体力活动消耗时，细胞通道内的高压电子无法顺畅流向氧气，导致电子从电子传递链中逸出并生成活性氧（ROS），引发氧化损伤。皮卡德主张，2型糖尿病中的胰岛素抵抗是细胞为了防止线粒体被过量营养摧毁而主动下调受体的保护性防御；而在阿尔茨海默病（被称为“3型糖尿病”）中，脑部同样表现出严峻的糖摄取与能量流动受阻。此外，癌细胞往往会抛弃功能健全的线粒体，退化为仅依靠原始发酵生存的状态，从而规避线粒体所主导的细胞凋亡（apoptosis）程序。 能量分配层级与白发可逆性 (48:18) 针对衰老机制，皮卡德提出机体内部遵循类似于马斯洛需求层次的有限能量分配原则：心肺与大脑等维持生命的基本运转处于底层，而抗衰老、生长和组织维护则位于顶层。一旦遭遇外部威胁，身体会优先牺牲顶层的非必需维护支出。皮卡德实验室针对人类细胞的体外测试发现，暴露于模拟心理担忧浓度的皮质醇时，细胞为了维持戒备状态，其能量消耗增加了60%。分子分析进一步揭示，变白的毛囊组织内线粒体数量反而显著增多，这是细胞功能衰退时为了勉强维生而代偿性增生线粒体所导致的能量浪费。 通过毛发色素沉着模式（HPP）测绘技术，皮卡德的研究证明了白发具有可逆性。在其实验室记录的案例中，一名年轻女性单根发丝上长达2厘米的白发片段，精准对应了其完成博士论文、失业及情感破裂的高压阶段；而在压力解除约一周后，新长出的毛发便迅速恢复黑色且色泽更深。皮卡德指出，毛囊损伤遵循阈值模型，一旦心理压力下降、代谢阻力消除，机体便能将充沛的能量重新分配给黑色素合成，实现逆转。 GDF15标志物与慢性疲劳机制 (109:00) 当外周器官面临线粒体能量阻力或组织受损时，会向血液中释放一种名为GDF15（生长分化因子15）的蛋白质。皮卡德强调，GDF15在大脑内部无法合成，其受体高度局限于脑干后极区（area postrema）。一旦该受体接收到GDF15信号，大脑便会启动两项生存保护策略：一是动员体内的糖原与脂肪储备以支援受损组织；二是指挥机体进入“疾病行为”（sickness behavior），通过诱发精神抑郁、倦怠乏力和社交退缩，强行迫使个体卧床休息以节省能量。英国生物样本库（UK Biobank）长达14年的随访数据表明，基线GDF15水平长期偏高与心血管疾病、多种精神障碍及全因死亡率上升显著相关。 这一生物路径为肌痛性脑脊髓炎/慢性疲劳综合征（ME/CFS）和长新冠（Long COVID）患者的病理提供了解释。皮卡德指出，此类患者在常规血液检查中往往结果正常，但肌肉活检证实其骨骼肌线粒体能量转换能力明显受损。盲目推行高强度运动极易诱发运动后不适（PEM），导致其GDF15和炎症因子激增，使大脑接收到更严峻的能量耗竭警报，陷入更深层的代偿性虚脱。 线粒体功能干预与双相剂量效应 (123:26) 在优化代谢效率的策略上，皮卡德澄清，单纯多吃食物并不能增加细胞可用能量，反而可能加剧系统阻力；真正的活力源于提高能量流通效率与降低内部生活成本。例如，生酮饮食通过肝脏制造酮体直供大脑线粒体，绕过了葡萄糖冗长复杂的酶促阻力通道。适度运动则通过暂时制造阻力，倒逼机体扩增线粒体并软化血管，从而大幅降低日常活动的基线能耗。他主张个体应培养“线粒体感知”（mitoception），即直观感受自身能量储备来动态调节生活节奏。 针对外源性干预，皮卡德提醒生物学遵循双相剂量效应（hormesis）。红光照射虽能通过刺激线粒体中的细胞色素c氧化酶来平抑餐后血糖峰值，但超时暴露会导致海量ROS积聚的光毒性，甚至关闭呼吸链并触发细胞凋亡。对于亚甲蓝（绕过受损电子复合体）、NAD+前体及促进线粒体自噬的尿石素A（如2022年《JAMA Network Open》试验在老年群体中所验证），皮卡德认为它们在特定病理状态下确能发挥生化辅助作用，但绝不能替代规律睡眠、心理减压与天然饮食等解除能量阻力的核心生活方式。 皮卡德指出，过度依赖随机对照试验的群体平均数容易掩盖显著的个体生物学差异。他认为，从微观细胞运作到宏观企业管理与人际关系，生命系统的核心在于使能量保持高度聚焦的“相干性”，而非在焦虑与杂音中耗散。面对慢性疲劳与衰老，学会主动放慢节奏、借助深度人际共鸣减轻心理威胁感，是保持细胞能量通道顺畅的基础。

## Background 本期节目由 YouTube 知名播客频道《The Diary Of A CEO》（主持人 Steven Bartlett）于 2026 年 7 月 2 日发布。视频特邀哥伦比亚大学行为医学教授、线粒体心理生物学实验室负责人 Martin Picard 博士深入探讨，根据页面简介，节目重点揭示了压力如何暗中消耗日常高达 60% 的细胞能量、白发逆转背后的生物学证据，以及线粒体而非基因如何真正决定人体的衰老速率与重大疾病风险。 ## TL;DR 访谈围绕线粒体科学展开，确立了“人不是肉身本身，而是穿流于肉身中的动态能量”这一底层世界观，并将癌症、阿尔茨海默病（3型糖尿病假说）、抑郁症及慢性疲劳综合征统一解释为微观线粒体微电路过载或受阻引发的“能量阻抗”危机。Picard 博士提供了无可辩驳的证据证实毛囊白发具有可逆性，其与急性压力引发能量重新分配紧密相关，并指出盲目多吃并不能补充精力，反而会加重系统电压导致慢性炎症。对话阐明了清晰目标与专注度如同激光般汇聚能量的生物学机制，并指出抗衰老与恢复精力的真正秘诀在于通过适度阻抗运动、优化呼吸、重置睡眠节律以及学会放慢节奏来提高整体能量效能。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对话在硬核的前沿生物学论证与深刻的存在主义哲学之间自如切换，Steven Bartlett 敏锐切身的创业者视角与 Picard 儒雅严谨又充满激情的科学家剖析形成了极强的智性张力。现场不仅穿插了即兴闭气等生动的具身体验，更在拆解白发逆转与现实扭曲场时迸发出令人屏息的启发感。对谈尾声 Picard 卸下学术防备，坦陈痛失未出世孩子的至暗经历与领悟“慢下来”的生命洗礼，为整期科学对谈注入了极为真实、脆弱而又充满敬畏与治愈力的深沉温情。 ## Bulletin - [31:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1864s) 科学证据证实白发具有生物学可逆性：头发变白并非单向不可逆的衰老过程，当急性心理或生理压力解除后，毛囊可在短时间内恢复黑色素合成，但该逆转存在特定的时间窗口期。 - [36:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2205s) 心理应激可导致细胞基础能耗剧增高达60%：在皮质醇刺激下细胞进入高防备消耗状态，剥夺了组织修复与抗衰老的能量预算，并促使外周组织分泌能量阻力因子 GDF-15，诱发抑郁情绪与内脏脂肪沉积。 - [19:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1143s) 现代重大慢性疾病底层多属于“能量阻抗”危机：癌症的瓦氏效应是细胞为逃避能量过载而主动退化为单细胞无氧发酵，胰岛素抵抗是细胞自保防爆的闭锁反应，而阿尔茨海默病本质是大脑能量阻抗升高的“3型糖尿病”。 - [51:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3103s) 人体能量预算存在生理天花板：盲目多吃并不会提供更多可用精力，反而会拉高系统电压诱发炎症；延缓衰老与充沛精力的核心在于通过适度运动与消除心理内耗来提高能量流转效率。 ## Key takeaways - [03:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=180s) 人体的物理与生物学本质是流经肉身的能量流动：活人与尸体的核心区别在于能量流转，人体内约5,000兆个线粒体如同微电路网络，拆解食物电子与氧气结合合成 ATP 并释放维持体温的废热。 - [48:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2898s) 机体能量预算遵循马斯洛层级分配原则：毛囊合成黑色素在生存优先次序中处于最底层，遭遇急性生存或情绪压力时，机体会优先切断毛发色素与皮肤修复等次要系统的能量供给。 - [35:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2104s) 白发毛囊呈现代偿性线粒体激增与阈值响应：变白的发段在分子层面表现为线粒体数量代偿性上调的受损内耗状态；色素生成遵循二元阈值模型，初期跌破阈值可逆，但长达数年的持续低谷则难以恢复。 - [42:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2567s) 生物学中无免费午餐，情绪反刍直接消耗 ATP：心理焦虑、自我意象受损等纯心理应激同样会触发剧烈的代谢消耗，通过内省感知（Interoception）在刺激与反应间建立缓冲有助于阻断无谓的能量流失。 - [20:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1236s) 癌症是细胞对抗能量过载的反社会退化：持续高血糖将巨量电子暴力灌入线粒体产生破坏性氧化应激（ROS），癌细胞通过关闭线粒体、退回古老的无氧糖酵解（瓦氏效应）以逃避凋亡并无限掠夺养分。 - [01:01:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3661s) 阿尔茨海默病本质是大脑能量代谢障碍：大量脑中布满淀粉样蛋白斑块的高龄者认知正常，病程早期大脑呈现代偿性高代谢、晚期转为耗竭低代谢，其实质是脑细胞线粒体能量阻抗失控。 - [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4686s) 虚假饥饿与时间限制进食的自噬效益：现代人体内储存的能量足以维持数周生存，频繁饥饿感多为多巴胺奖赏中枢被劫持；限制进食窗口能触发线粒体自噬（Mitophagy），淘汰劣化线粒体并提升清醒度。 - [01:42:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6155s) 人生目标感与专注力能够提高微观能量相干性：生前具备强烈生活目标的人群，大脑背外侧前额叶皮层的线粒体能量转化效率显著更高；清晰的目标如同激光束，能消除决策内耗并降低内部能量阻抗。 - [01:48:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6533s) GDF-15 是外周向大脑传递能量危机的应激信号：外周器官在能量吃紧时分泌 GDF-15，激活脑干最后区抑制行为动机，迫使个体陷入抑郁和活动厌恶，同时紧急动员的游离燃料在久坐状态下异位沉积为内脏脂肪。 - [01:55:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6909s) 线粒体补剂缺乏全能神效，应谨慎盲从：亚甲蓝、NAD+ 与尿石素 A 虽在特定机制上支持线粒体，但过量抗氧化剂会削弱机体自适应信号，保持昼夜节律与深度睡眠才是天然降低内部能量阻力的关键。 - [02:03:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7406s) 红光疗法遵循典型的双相剂量效应倒 U 形曲线：近红外光可被线粒体细胞色素c氧化酶吸收以促进电子流动和平抑餐后血糖，但过度暴晒会喷射巨量 ROS 击溃抗氧化防御，关停呼吸链并引发细胞凋亡。 - [02:10:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7837s) 代谢精神病学将心理疾病锚定于能量阻抗：肺部闭气极限造成的窒息恐惧与心绞痛、惊恐发作底层一致，皆为线粒体电子逆流堆积所致的能量停滞警报；生酮疗法断糖供能为部分精神疾患提供了代谢治疗契机。 - [02:25:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8735s) 运动重塑能量效率的核心是施加适度良性阻抗：任何加深加快呼吸的运动均可刺激线粒体生物合成；久坐人群通过长期耐力训练可使肌肉线粒体翻倍，从而降低基础运转能耗并释放组织维护盈余。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=0s) 白发逆转与能量分配的科学秘密 Dr. Martin Picard 开篇便抛出了一个颠覆传统认知的结论：头发变白并非单向不可逆的过程，现有证据已无可辩驳地证实白发能够逆转，而且这一转变速度可以相当迅速。人类的头发如同一部行走的生物学历史记录簿，过去的生理状态都会被刻录其中——例如半年前摄入的大麻，其化学痕迹依然能够从发丝中精准检出。基于此，他的实验室萌生了一个灵感：如果在同一根头发上精准定位从“年轻黑发”转变为“衰老白发”的交界点，进而比对当事人在那一刻的生活经历与身体状态，就能揭示人体衰老的根本机制。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 线粒体能量分配与压力损耗示意图 accDescr: 展示有限的能量预算如何在压力反应与组织年轻化修复之间发生分配偏转。 subgraph Budget["体内有限能量预算"] E["总可用能量"] end subgraph Normal["健康状态"] R["抗衰与修复系统<br/>（头发色素、细胞更新）"] end subgraph Stress["压力激活状态"] C["压力激素与应激反应<br/>（能量消耗激增 16%）"] end E -->|基准分配| R E -.->|被劫持消耗| C C -->|剥夺年轻化资源| R ``` 当被问及抗衰老的核心秘密时，Dr. Martin Picard 将其归结为六个字：“能量的合理分配（The proper allocation of energy）”。能量不仅是一种抽象感觉，它是人体最真实的底层物理现实——决定了一个人是感到自己拥有“足以改变世界的力量”，还是陷入“被彻底掏空”的枯竭深渊。人体的能量预算是有限的，且内部存在严格的生理优先级层级。实验室测试发现，仅仅是为未来焦虑、为昨天反刍这类心理应对反应，就会诱导压力激素分泌，直接使身体的基础能量消耗暴增 16%。这意味着身体必须从维系年轻、修复组织的预算中把能量硬生生“偷走”。换言之，摧毁身体的并非外在压力本身，而是身体对压力的应对消耗。人体内约有 5,000 兆（5,000 trillion，即 5×10¹⁵）个线粒体，它们正是生命机能与身体感受的物质根基；甚至对已故人群大脑的解剖研究显示，生前拥有越强人生目标感的人，其大脑线粒体的运作效率就越高。对于癌症、阿尔茨海默病乃至糖尿病等现代重大疾病，其本质都可以从“能量阻抗（energy resistance）”的角度得到解释。 - 头发记录了人体过去的生物信息，半年内摄入的物质（如大麻）均可在发丝中留存痕迹。 - 压力应对激发的皮质醇等激素会导致全身能量消耗激增 16%，直接挤占抗衰修复所需的能量配额。 - 人体内分布着约 5,000 兆个线粒体，平均每个细胞含有约 1,000 个。 - 癌症、阿尔茨海默病以及糖尿病在底层机制上均属于“能量阻抗”相关的代谢异常。 --- ### [02:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=128s) 频道订阅呼吁与内容承诺 主持人 Steven Bartlett 插入了一段与观众的诚恳对话。后台数据显示，不少长期收看节目的老观众在无意中被系统取消了订阅。由于频道正接近一个极为关键的里程碑订阅数字，Steven 请求常客花几秒钟检查自己的订阅状态。他强调这是保持节目完全免费、每周提升制作水准与嘉宾质量的唯一举措，并向观众承诺团队绝不会辜负支持，将持续倾尽全力促成最有深度的前沿对话。 --- ### [03:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=180s) 我们即能量：科学与人类体验的连结 回归正题后，Steven 提出了一个直击本质的问题：Dr. Martin Picard 所深信、了解，但绝大多数大众尚未理解的真相是什么？Dr. Picard 给出的回答极为干脆：“我们即是能量（We are energy）。我们从字面意义上讲，就是穿流于肉身之中的那一股能量流动。” 尽管这种说法在缺乏语境时容易被误解为某种玄学（woo），但现代科学正逐步构建出严谨的跨学科第一性原理框架，将人重新定义为动态的能量转化系统。现代人之所以对“能量”这一课题抱有空前的求知欲，是因为每个人每天都在经历真实的能量波动：有时清晨醒来精神饱满，感觉无所不能；有时遵循了完全相同的作息，醒来却浑身沉重，仿佛生命活力在暗中被抽干。对于患有慢性疲劳综合征（ME/CFS）或长新冠（long COVID）的人群而言，这种长达数年缺乏能量去参与世界运转的状态，是一种极其沉重而无助的生存困境。 --- ### [04:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=275s) 从经历到科学：献身线粒体研究的博士之路 谈及为何将毕生精力投入线粒体生物学，Dr. Martin Picard 坦言自己也是个经历过人生起落的普通人，曾历经痛楚而汲取教训，也体会过生命的宝贵与美好。当他掌握了科研工具并初次接触到线粒体时，他意识到这正是搭建桥梁的钥匙：一端是人类无需身穿白大褂的医生来定义、通过主观第一视角即可真切感知的生命体验；另一端则是严谨的客观生物医学，探究疾病究竟从何而来。 为了弥合主观体验与微观生理学之间的鸿沟，Dr. Picard 在哥伦比亚大学带领线粒体心理生物学实验室长达十年，其博士专攻方向即为衰老的线粒体生物学（mitochondrial biology of aging），并随后创办了专门的研究机构，致力于研发帮助个体修复、成长与转化身心能量的技术系统。 --- ### [05:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=351s) 纽卡斯尔的顿悟：当线粒体在注视线粒体 在演播室屏幕上，Steven 播放了一段由 Dr. Picard 在读博期间亲手拍摄的微观显微影像。画面中的线粒体不断蠕动、变形，形态诡异得宛如外星生物。Dr. Picard 回忆，那是他在英格兰东北部的纽卡斯尔大学（Newcastle upon Tyne）医学院进行学术交流时拍摄的。当他第一次在显微镜下亲眼目睹活体线粒体在细胞内部自主移动、展现出生命内在节律的那一刻，他遭遇了职业生涯中最为震撼的顿悟时刻。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 线粒体电子流与能量生成闭环 accDescr: 展示食物中的电子与吸入的氧气在线粒体汇聚，形成电流并释放热量与生成水的过程。 F["食物生物化学能<br/>（光合作用固定的电子）"] -->|"逐个剥离电子"| M["线粒体电路<br/>（电子传递链）"] O["呼吸吸入的氧气"] -->|"闭合电路（电子受体）"| M M --> W["水 (H2O)"] M --> H["体温热量<br/>（握手感受到的温暖）"] M --> S["生物电与生化信号"] ``` 那一刻的震颤在于一种奇妙的哲学闭环：“我能注视这鲜活的线粒体，完全是因为我体内的线粒体在供能；正是我眼部细胞中的线粒体驱动着能量流，才赋予了我看见眼前画面的能力。这是线粒体在注视着线粒体。”线粒体的诞生促成了多细胞复杂生命的出现，甚至从某种演化视角来看，人体只是线粒体用以自我繁衍和延续生命的宿主载体。 线粒体绝非单纯的能量加工厂，它维系着极其精密的微观电回路： - **电子的拆解与流动**：食物原本通过植物光合作用把阳光中的能量以化学键形式封存，线粒体将这些食物分子拆解，逐一剥离出高能电子，如同微型电池的两极一样驱动电子在生物回路中定向流动。 - **与氧气闭合回路**：这一回路最终以肺部吸入的氧气作为归宿，电子与氧结合还原为水。正是这一股流向氧气的电子流，维持着人类生命的存续。 - **能量形态的跃迁与体温来源**：在驱动电子流的过程中，线粒体将食物生化能转化为生物电能、调控信号以及热量。人体之所以恒温、握手时之所以能感知到对方掌心的温度，本质上感受到的正是对方体内 5,000 兆个微型线粒体电路在运转时所散发出的热力。 ### [08:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=531s) 能量如何决定你能否活出真实的自我 每个人内心深处都有独特的才华与真实自我渴望绽放，而唯一能让一个人蓬勃发展的媒介就是能量。如果体内没有能量流动，生命便不复存在；如果能量流动受阻、效率低下，生活就会变得异常沉重与艰难——你会感到疲惫不堪，甚至觉得一切努力都不值得。就像生病时免疫系统会榨干身体的所有能量，在那种能量匮乏的状态下，人极难保持乐观，也无法做一个称职的父亲或对世界心怀善意。史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）对此深有感触地指出，现实中许多人总觉得这种疲惫是无可奈何的命运，仿佛每天呼吸、进食之后自己的精神状态全凭“轮盘赌”一般的运气，完全不在自我掌控之中。为了彻底扭转这种无力感，人们必须从最底层的生理规律重新认识能量的运作方式。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 人体能量三大基石 accDescr: 解释马丁·皮卡德博士提出的身体能量运作的三大核心原则 subgraph Principles["能量运作的三大基石"] P1["原则一：你并非肉身<br/>而是流经身体的能量"] P2["原则二：能量预算恒定<br/>过载会导致系统发炎"] P3["原则三：生命源于阻抗<br/>阻抗催生转化与生长"] end P1 --> OUT["驱动生命表达与意识"] P2 --> OUT P3 --> OUT ``` ### [10:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=622s) 原则一与原则二：你并非肉体本身，且身体拥有恒定的能量预算 理解人体能量系统的第一块基石在于彻底转变世界观：你并不是这具肉身本身，"你是流经这具身体并在其中发生转化的能量"（You are the energy that's flowing through this body）。尸体与一个活生生、有思想、有感知、充满关怀的清醒生命之间，唯一的本质区别就在于能量的流动。现代科学和世俗观念常常让人陷入物质主义的桎梏，误以为只有肉眼可见的物理实体、基因和骨肉才是真实的，然而真正赋予你生命表达的正是无形的能量流。 第二块基石则是人体拥有一个大致恒定的“能量预算”（fixed energy budget）。很多人误以为要想获得更多精力去录播客、写作或发挥创造力，方法就是多吃东西，但这完全是错误的。身体系统如同精密电路，如果摄入过多热量（特别是糖分），就相当于强行调高电压，导致整个电路系统因过载而过热。这种细胞层面的过热状态在生理上就表现为慢性炎症，受压的细胞会通过释放炎症细胞因子（cytokines）向周围发出警报。长此以往，身体必须耗费极大的力气去调整和适应，以努力维系这笔紧绷的能量预算；而压力（stress）本质上正是对能量预算的极度过度消耗。 - **死体与活人的分水岭**：区别尸体与具备意识的人类的唯一要素就是能量的流动与转化。 - **过度进食的过热效应**：给身体施加过多食物热量会导致类似电压激增的过载，促使细胞释放炎症细胞因子并诱发系统性炎症。 - **压力的生理本质**：压力是对人体恒定能量预算的大规模透支与过量消耗。 ### [12:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=767s) 原则三：生命即阻抗——能量必须遭遇阻力才能孕育生机 能量运作的第三个核心原则是“生命即阻抗”（life is resistance）。为了生存、学习、进化以及重塑思维，能量必须穿透阻力才能发生转化；如果能量的流动畅通无阻、阻抗为零，宇宙间就根本不会产生任何形态的转变。如果人生一帆风顺、毫无挫折与压力，生命只会永远停留在原地，变得极度乏味。从第一性原理的物理学视角来看，太阳犹如悬挂在天空中的巨型核反应堆，不断向外辐射光子，只要光子在空旷的宇宙空间中穿梭，它就永远仅仅是一束光；唯有当它撞击到一片绿叶并遭遇阻挡与约束时，光能才会被阻抗所截获并结晶为有机分子。正是植物将光能阻截并转化为碳水化合物的过程，构成了地球所有食物与生命的基石。 ### [14:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=866s) 线粒体：细胞内的微型电阻器与分布式大脑 在这套能量宏图中，线粒体扮演的角色正是微型“电阻器”兼电池，它们掌管着贯穿全身的能量流动。人体内大约有 5 万亿个拥有细胞核的细胞，每个细胞内部平均寄宿着约 1,000 个线粒体。线粒体内部拥有层层叠叠如翅膀般的嵴（cristae），这些嵴正是食物代谢副产物与呼吸摄入的氧气交汇的场所。电子在这些精密微电路中穿梭流动，为线粒体充满电荷，使其像微型蓄电池一样运作；一旦蓄满电荷，线粒体便利用这些电位差合成三磷酸腺苷（ATP）——这便是机体通用的细胞能量货币。例如当肌肉细胞在健身房收缩做功时，它会立刻向线粒体索要 ATP，线粒体便开足马力运转电子、消耗底物与氧气，而人在剧烈运动时大汗淋漓、气喘吁吁，正是因为数以万亿计的线粒体在拼命呼唤更多氧气参与反应。 更为颠覆性的科学认知在于，线粒体绝非仅仅是教科书上描绘的“能量工厂”。它们利用自身的带电激发状态持续接收外界环境信息，并向周围发送调控信号。在每个线粒体的表面，布满了能够感知各种生理信号的受体，它们时刻监测着体内能量是否充沛、有无压力激素降临、是否需要为潜在的危险做好防备。由于它们在细胞内部互联互通、协同决策，马丁·皮卡德博士（Dr Martin Picard）将其形象地比喻为细胞内部的“分布式大脑”（distributed brain）。 - **体内规模**：人体约 5 万亿个有核细胞中，单个细胞通常含有约 1,000 个线粒体。 - **嵴（Cristae）的电路功能**：食物分解的电子与氧气在此汇聚，形成电荷并驱动 ATP 合成。 - **气喘吁吁的原因**：肌肉做功迫使线粒体加速运转，对氧气的大量召集导致呼吸急促。 - **信息中枢功能**：线粒体通过表面受体感知压力荷尔蒙及能量波动，彼此交流，充当细胞内的智能网络。 ### [16:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1003s) 远古共生事件：氧气利用与复杂生命的演化开端 线粒体的起源可以追溯到大约 15 亿年前两类截然不同的远古细菌之间的碰撞。当时一类细菌进化出了利用氧气进行能量转化的能力，能够高效燃烧氧气与营养底物；而另一类属于厌氧细菌，体积相对较大、拥有更多基因，但其只能依靠低效的发酵方式生活，代谢产物往往是像酵母菌排出的乳酸等发酵残渣。在漫长的演化史中，大细菌要么将小细菌吞噬入腹，要么是小细菌主动侵入并殖民了大细菌的内部，最终达成了生物史上最深远的内共生盟约。传统学说认为，这种结合为宿主细胞带来了呈数量级暴增的充沛能量，使得生物体拥有了突破单细胞极限、向多细胞复杂生命演化的资本。皮卡德博士基于前沿研究进一步指出，这场跨越 15 亿年的结合不仅带来了能量的飞跃，更奠定了日后所有复杂生理调控与生命感知的基石。 ### [17:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1070s) 线粒体与细胞社会的诞生：从自私单细胞到器官分工 在演化历史的开端，原核生物完全是孤立且“自私”的。Dr Martin Picard 解释道，在远古时代，单细胞生物几乎没有任何社交性，它们就像在原始汤里各自觅食的微小细菌，唯一的生存动机就是摄取养分、自我复制并苟延残喘。然而，当远古细胞吞噬线粒体的前身并建立内共生关系后，彻底颠覆了生命的运作法则。线粒体不仅为宿主细胞赋予了全新的感知环境与信息计算能力，甚至赋予了细胞“社交”属性。 正是线粒体充沛的能量供应，打破了单细胞零和博弈的生存模式。细胞之间开始形成不可思议的合作默契：“不如我们分工合作吧！你负责消化吸收能量，我负责收缩产生位移；你成为肠道，我成为肌肉。”这种微观层面的社会化契约，经过数十亿年的演化裂变，最终构筑了拥有复杂器官系统的多细胞生物——肝脏负责代谢与滋养全身，心脏提供澎湃动力维持循环，大脑则统筹算力进行规划与决策。人体所有精密的劳动分工，其原始起点全部源于线粒体的入驻。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 细胞演化与能量分工示意图 accDescr: 展示从缺乏线粒体的自私单细胞，演化到内共生形成多细胞社会分工的过程。 subgraph Primitive["远古单细胞阶段（无社交）"] A["原始厌氧细菌"] -->|"各自觅食 / 仅维持生存复制"| A end subgraph Symbiosis["线粒体内共生事件"] B["宿主大细胞"] -->|"内共生结合"| C["线粒体祖先"] C -->|"提供充沛能量与环境计算能力"| D["能量富集真核细胞"] end subgraph Multicellular["多细胞社会分工（器官形成）"] D --> E["能量摄取细胞（肠道 / 肝脏）"] D --> F["运动功能细胞（骨骼肌 / 心脏）"] D --> G["信息计算中枢（大脑系统）"] end Primitive -->|"数十亿年演化"| Symbiosis Symbiosis --> Multicellular ``` --- ### [19:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1143s) 能量阻力与糖尿病：当能量之水冲垮大坝 Dr Martin Picard 指出，现代医学中绝大多数疾病或功能失调，本质上都可以用“能量阻力”（Energy Resistance）这一物理概念来解释，而其中最直观的教科书范例就是胰岛素抵抗与糖尿病。所谓糖尿病，根本不是单纯的血糖数字偏高，而是一场典型的能量阻力失控危机。当系统承载了过量的能量推力（例如摄入过多葡萄糖），或者线粒体自身功能受损导致能量无法顺畅流转时，能量就会陷入停滞并面临巨大的通行阻碍。 Dr Martin Picard 用大坝与水流打了个生动的比方：如果水流平缓顺畅地穿过水轮机，这股能量就会被转化为电能造福周围；然而，当大坝完全关闭闸门，或者蓄水量远远超过负荷时，水压就会急剧攀升，最终冲溃堤坝、淹没平原，造成灾难性的破坏。线粒体在细胞中就扮演着水力发电机的作用。当人体保持规律运动和生理活性时，穿过线粒体的能量流就能顺利转化为物理功——转化为跑步的速度、肌肉的力量与敏捷的反应；反之，若能量通道被死死堵塞，高压便会不可逆地损伤细胞架构。 - **能量阻力的本质**：系统承受的外加能量负荷过大，与下游能量通路运载能力低下之间的脱节。 - **线粒体的能量转换器角色**：若能量通路顺畅且机体活跃，电子流便能转化为机体做功；若缺乏宣泄途径，积压的能量就会演变成破坏性的生物高压。 --- ### [20:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1236s) 癌症的本质：瓦氏效应与细胞的“反社会倒退” 当主持人询问能量阻力是否与肿瘤细胞失控分裂有关时，Dr Martin Picard 给予了极为肯定的回答。肿瘤学界长期总结的“癌症十大特征”（Hallmarks of Cancer）这个庞大的飞轮体系中，每一项核心特征都与能量阻力的激增有着极直接的因果牵连。当正常细胞内部的能量流动受阻、承受过度的能量压力时，肿瘤细胞会做出一项匪夷所思的举动——它们主动“抛弃”线粒体，退化回到数十亿年前没有线粒体、依赖无氧糖酵解并疯狂排放乳酸的远古单细胞状态。 这一现象在生物学上被称为“瓦氏效应”（Warburg Effect）：即即便在氧气极度充沛、线粒体完全有能力呼吸并转换能量的环境下，癌细胞依然拒绝使用线粒体，彻底撕毁了多细胞社会契约。主持人直呼这听起来就像是体内突然诞生了“自私的外星人”，它们脱离整体利益，转变为极端的“反社会细胞”，不仅疯狂自我复制，还向机体发出信号索取更多资源。肿瘤引发的血管新生（Angiogenesis），正是癌细胞在拼命降低自身能量阻力、疯狂向机体索要更多血液与氧气的掠夺行为。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 正常细胞社交模式与癌细胞反社会瓦氏效应对比 accDescr: 比较正常细胞通过线粒体有氧代谢维护整体生命，与癌细胞放弃线粒体转为厌氧贪婪复制的过程。 subgraph NormalCell["正常细胞：遵守社会契约"] N1["摄取养分与氧气"] --> N2["线粒体有氧呼吸"] N2 --> N3["维持整体器官机能与生理平衡"] end subgraph CancerCell["癌细胞：瓦氏效应与反社会倒退"] C1["放弃线粒体功能"] --> C2["依赖远古无氧糖酵解"] C2 --> C3["自私掠夺养分与血管新生"] C3 --> C4["无限繁殖与逃避凋亡"] end ``` --- ### [24:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1483s) 为什么高血糖与糖尿病会增加患癌风险？ 过去半个世纪里，主流肿瘤学界普遍将癌症的诱发归咎于偶发的基因突变。然而 Dr Martin Picard 强调，新近的代谢精神医学与细胞生物学提出了颠覆性的视角：细胞内部代谢途径的改变，尤其是电子穿过线粒体能量回路方式的崩溃，才是催生癌细胞的底层驱动力。正常细胞与全身其他细胞签订了“维护宿主整体生命与健康”的共同契约，但当细胞遭遇持续的能量过载时，它为了求存便会单方面撕毁协议，开启细菌般的自私增殖模式并全力逃避死亡。 这也完美解答了一个长期困扰医学界的谜团：为什么高血糖（Hyperglycemia）与糖尿病是罹患癌症的重大危险因素？从传统分子生物学和偶发基因突变的角度很难给出一针见血的解释，但从能量动力学视角来看却一目了然。持续偏高的血糖会产生可怕的生化“压力”，将巨量电子硬生生灌入并不需要能量的细胞和线粒体内。这就像试图把暴洪强行塞入一根极其细窄的水管，物理层面的管道爆裂在所难免。这种暴力的过载会瞬间拉高能量阻力，迫使细胞产生剧烈的线粒体损伤、热量散失以及活性氧（ROS）引发的氧化应激。为了抵御这种致命超载，细胞演化出了胰岛素抵抗来闭门自保，但长期的能量高压最终会彻底摧垮代谢平衡，直接为癌变铺平道路。 - **基因假说与代谢假说的博弈**：基因突变并非全部真相，电子流动的代谢回路紊乱才是启动恶性转变的先导引擎。 - **高血糖的物理超载机制**：多余的糖分转化为超负荷的电子压力推向线粒体，引发氧化应激与细胞结构破损。 - **胰岛素抵抗的保护悖论**：胰岛素抵抗本质上是细胞为了防止被巨量葡萄糖“撑死”而启动的防御闭锁，但代价是整个代谢系统的阻力全面飙升。 --- ### [26:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1570s) 吸烟、代谢失衡与能量阻力法则 在讨论外界环境对细胞能量的影响时，主持人提到了吸烟与癌症的关联。Dr Martin Picard 分析指出，烟草烟雾中确实富含明确的致癌物，这些化学毒物会直接物理损伤基因组并诱发突变，这在肺癌中体现得尤为直接。然而，对于绝大多数困扰并掠夺人类寿命的其他癌症，暴露源与发病之间其实缺乏这种简单的一对一线性关联。现代临床数据反复证明，肥胖、慢性高血糖以及糖尿病引发的剧烈血糖尖峰，才是全谱系癌症最普遍、最隐蔽的温床。 生命的本质是在持续不断地进行能量计算。Dr Martin Picard 阐明，“能量阻力原则”（Energy Resistance Principle）揭示了生物系统内部最根本的处理逻辑：细胞时时刻刻都在测算当前的能量流量与阻力负荷。一旦系统内部的输入严重脱节于消耗能力，能量阻力就会在无形之中改变细胞的运转范式，最终将原本协作共赢的健康组织，推向病理崩溃与癌变的深渊。 ### [27:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1641s) 线粒体如何被癌症劫持与能量过载的电路隐喻 当机体所面临的能量需求与承受的能量压力之间出现失衡时，细胞层面的损伤便随之产生。传统观念往往将线粒体视作疾病进程中的无辜旁观者，但实际上癌细胞会直接“劫持”线粒体。肿瘤通过重编程使线粒体放弃原本守护机体能量平衡的角色，将其改造为大量制造癌细胞的代工厂。也正因如此，针对线粒体代谢的疗法正成为最具前景的抗癌前沿方向之一。 正常细胞的命运完全由线粒体主导——线粒体犹如坐在驾驶座上的指挥官，掌握着生死大权的“否决票”（veto）：细胞是该继续生存并分裂、维持特定分化状态，还是为了整体利益启动程序性自噬（细胞自杀）。机体正是依靠这种机制时刻清除脱离集体秩序、有癌变倾向的细胞。然而，癌细胞却能“抛弃”正常线粒体调控，不仅借此规避线粒体所能触发的凋亡信号，还转而利用它们支持自身的无限制增殖。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 正常细胞与癌细胞中线粒体的命运调控差异 accDescr: 对比正常状态下线粒体主导的细胞凋亡机制与癌细胞劫持线粒体后的失控增殖机制 subgraph Normal["正常细胞机制"] A["线粒体处于核心调控位"] --> B{"行使决策权"} B -->|"正常机能"| C["维持分化 / 分裂"] B -->|"细胞受损 / 异常"| D["触发程序性自杀<br/>（清除癌前细胞）"] end subgraph Cancer["癌细胞劫持机制"] E["癌细胞介入重编程"] --> F["脱离线粒体凋亡否决权"] F --> G["规避程序性死亡"] F --> H["将线粒体转变为生产工厂<br/>（全速制造癌细胞）"] end ``` 这种机制解释了为何过量糖分摄入和高血糖与极高的患癌风险紧密挂钩： - **能量阻抗原理（Energy Resistance Principle）**：人体能量流动与简单的电子电路完全一致。如果电路电压被过度抬高，而系统本身脆弱无法承受，阻抗便会骤增，导致晶体管融化甚至烧毁。 - **电子堆积与氧化应激**：食物中的葡萄糖本质上携带了大量电子。一旦暴饮暴食注入过多电子，身体的“电压”随之暴涨；如果个体长期缺乏运动、处于静止状态，电子便无法顺畅消耗。 - **代谢通路受阻**：原本顺畅从食物流向线粒体去寻找氧气的电子，在整条生化瀑布级联通路的每一个节点都遭遇阻碍，最终脱轨迸射，转变成极具破坏性的氧化应激（oxidative stress），造成细胞和组织的结构性损坏。 --- ### [31:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=1864s) 白发可逆的科学实证：头发中铭刻的人体生物年轮 谈及衰老，人们普遍认为这是一个不可逆转的线性退化过程。但研究发现，压力引起的白发完全可以“逆转”为原本的深色，且根本无需依赖染发剂。头发就如同树木的年轮：树木截面上的每一圈年轮精确记录着过去三十年或当下的环境变迁；同理，头发纤维内部也结晶化地封存着人体的生物历史。例如，若一个人在几个月前使用过药物或大麻，化学特征便会被物理性地锁定在对应生长时间的头发发段中，随着头发生长向外移动。 研究团队起初设想：如果在头皮上能找到发梢深色（代表年轻状态）、发根发白（代表衰老状态）的发丝，便能捕捉到毛囊从年轻跨向衰老那一刻的分子变化。然而当他们在全球征集样本时，竟意外收到了大量用自封袋寄来的两色毛发（涵盖头发、胡须乃至体毛），其中许多样本清晰地展现出了相反的图景——发梢是白色的，而靠近头皮的发根却重新变回了深色。 - **实证逆转现象**：研究收集到了大量单根毛发呈现“白发转黑”的直接物理证据，彻底推翻了“衰老是不可逆单向进程”的教条。 - **皮卡德教授的亲身经历**：他本人也是该项实验的受试者之一，在自己的头上找到了 5 根具有两色变化的发丝。 - **度假带来的能量重构**：时间线回溯发现，他的白发重新变黑恰好发生在他休假参加年度自行车集训营期间。那一周他只专注于骑行、吃饭与睡眠，整个人体的能量流动模式发生了根本性改变，促成了毛囊细胞年轻化逆转。 --- ### [35:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2104s) 挣扎的衰老毛囊与皮质醇驱动的能量危机 针对这些两色毛发的分子水平分析，揭示了极度反直觉的线粒体运作规律。同一根发丝上，深色发段与白色发段拥有完全相同的基因组，个体也遵循着相同的饮食与运动日常。研究人员原本推测，变白的衰老发段中线粒体数量应该较少，但测序结果却显示：**变白的头发中线粒体数量反而显著上调**。 这种反常的线粒体激增并非机体健康的表现，而是衰老细胞在绝境中的“徒劳挣扎”： ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 压力导致线粒体代偿性激增与能量耗竭的模型 accDescr: 展示应激激素引发细胞受损后，线粒体代偿增生并陷入能量损耗的恶性循环 A["长期压力 / 皮质醇飙升"] --> B["毛囊细胞受损<br/>（DNA或代谢受创）"] B --> C["细胞拒绝直接死亡<br/>（启动代偿机制）"] C --> D["过度合成线粒体"] D --> E["能量严重损耗 / 浪费"] E --> F["毛囊功能耗竭<br/>色素丧失变白"] ``` - **代偿性挣扎**：当细胞受到损伤或因代谢异常加速衰老时，它并不一定会直接走向死亡，而是会拼命合成更多线粒体试图补救这一机能缺陷。 - **低效内耗**：这种病态的代偿过程导致细胞极度挣扎，并在运转中浪费了庞大的细胞能量。 - **压力激素的直接打击**：以皮质醇（Cortisol）为代表的应激激素是引发细胞陷入这种绝望挣扎的核心诱因。对于微观视角的单细胞而言，它无法理解宏观世界的纷繁复杂，却会在高浓度皮质醇的刺激下感知到致命生存危机，陷入恶性的能量透支与机能崩解。 ### [36:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2205s) 担忧的细胞代价：压力荷尔蒙如何让细胞多消耗 60% 的能量 Dr. Martin Picard 指出，人体无时无刻不在感知外界环境。当压力荷尔蒙皮质醇（Cortisol）释放到体内时，身体接收到的信号非常明确：外部环境出现了危险，你必须立刻准备好战斗或逃跑（Fight or Flight）。在演化史上，人类的细胞被设定为一旦侦测到皮质醇，就会立即进入戒备状态。Picard 实验室的两名学生 Gabriel 和 Natalia 便据此设计了一个培养皿细胞实验，旨在探究一个核心问题：“为未来感到担忧，或者为昨天没有做好的工作、失误以及与伴侣谈崩的争吵反复反刍（ruminate），究竟会在细胞层面上消耗多少能量？” 研究人员将离体细胞放入培养皿中，加入等同于人体压力水平的皮质醇。皮质醇分子本身并没有任何毒性或直接损伤，但它向细胞传递了“外面有危险”的警报信号，宛如一个人坐在电脑前突然收到一封可能导致失业或失去重要合同的邮件，心脏随即砰砰狂跳。实验结果令人震惊：仅仅为了防范潜在的危险并做好战斗戒备，这些离体细胞的能量消耗直接飙升了整整 60%，生命运转的代谢成本大幅提升。 面对主持人 Steven Bartlett 惊讶追问“这意味着当我感到压力时，理论上我也多消耗了 60% 的能量吗？”，Picard 幽默地澄清，这是离体细胞的极端测量数据。人体作为高度复杂的有机体，拥有极其精密的缓冲调节系统（Buffering systems），真实机体的能量消耗增幅未必达到夸张的 60%，但在压力之下能量被额外消耗是确定无疑的事实。 - **细胞培养皿实验**：由实验室研究员 Gabriel 与 Natalia 主导，测试皮质醇信号对离体细胞能量代谢的直接影响。 - **能量消耗增幅**：在不承受任何实体破坏、仅接收皮质醇“危险预警”的前提下，细胞能量消耗增加了 60%。 - **身体缓冲机制**：人体作为一个复杂系统具备多层缓冲网络，虽不至于整体能量消耗暴增 60%，但各器官对压力的生理动员仍会带来显著的额外代谢负荷。 --- ### [38:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2311s) 白发可逆的实锤证据：一根头发与两张完全重合的曲线 Picard 随后向主持人展示了两张关键图表。上方图表记录的是实验室研发的“毛发色素沉着模式”（Hair Pigmentation Pattern, HPP），旨在通过高精度定量科学来解析白发的形成与逆转。展示的样本来自一位年轻的亚裔女性：原本是一根黑发，中间突兀地出现了约 2 厘米完全发白的区域，紧接着白发戛然而止，“嘭”的一声重新恢复了颜色，而且重新长出的黑色甚至比原本的发色更深，并在之后一直保持乌黑。Picard 回忆起当时在邮件中收到这根“两色发”时的震动，他手里拿着这根头发忍不住惊呼：“天哪！在同一根头发上，这正是白发完全可逆的确凿证据（incontrovertible evidence）！”而且色素逆转的速度极快，从彻底变白到重新变黑的转变过程只用了短短一周左右。 下方图表则是 Picard 团队开发的生活压力追踪坐标纸：纵轴代表压力指数（从 0 分的完全无压力到 10 分的“人生最艰难时刻”），横轴则是过去一年的时间跨度（从一年前一直记录到当前）。受试者在坐标轴上逐月标出各个时期的重大压力事件并连成红色曲线。将这名亚裔女性的“生活压力曲线”与她的“毛发色素沉着曲线”上下对齐时，两条曲线呈现出近乎严丝合缝的惊人重合。 这位女性的生活轨迹完美解释了这段生理变化：此前她虽然刚完成博士论文答辩且处于待业状态，但内心非常轻松愉悦；然而紧接着她与男友分手，生活彻底陷入混乱，又不得不远赴欧洲处理复杂的家庭纠纷。她将那两个月评为“人生中最痛苦、压力最大的两个月”，而那 2 厘米的白发恰恰精准记录了这段分手的黑暗时光。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 压力事件与毛发色素变化对应关系 accDescr: 展示了重大人生压力事件如何通过皮质醇与代谢压力导致毛囊变白，以及压力解除后色素重新恢复的过程。 subgraph StressEvents["生活事件轨迹（横轴：时间）"] A["博士论文答辩通过\n（心情轻松，低压力 0-2）"] --> B["与男友分手 + 赴欧处理家庭危机\n（人生峰值压力 10）"] B --> C["危机化解，生活重归平静\n（压力回落至低位）"] end subgraph HairPigment["毛发色素沉着模式（HPP）"] D["发根健康生成黑色素\n（乌黑发段）"] --> E["黑色素生成机制被抑制\n（中间约 2 厘米完全变白）"] E --> F["毛囊活力重启\n（重新长出深黑色头发，耗时约 1 周）"] end A -.-> D B -.-> E C -.-> F ``` --- ### [41:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2470s) 白发逆转的“机会之窗”与数学阈值模型 Steven Bartlett 提出了一个极具现实意义的尖锐问题：如果一个人经历了两到三周的高压期，头发开始变白，只要迅速脱离高压环境，这根头发是否就能重新变黑？如果压力持续变成慢性，毛囊是否就会彻底丧失色素？ Picard 对此给出了肯定的回答，并介绍了团队为了解释这一现象构建的高级数学模型。现实中显而易见的事实是：如果一个 70 岁的老人满头银发，他是无法自然恢复发色的。数学模型表明，毛发逆转存在一个关键的“机会之窗”（Window of opportunity）： 毛囊在日常生活中会逐渐累积损伤，能量利用效率逐步降低，产生越来越多的“能量阻抗”（Energy resistance）。在这个累积过程中存在一个临界阈值（Threshold），一旦毛囊细胞的能量供给因外界冲击（如突发剧烈压力）跌破这个临界点，毛囊便会丧失生成黑色素的能力，瞬间切换为白色。 然而，在这个早期阶段，系统的状态是可逆的。如果此时机体环境发生改变——比如去度假减压，或者通过间歇性禁食等手段优化系统，让更多能量重新供给给毛囊细胞——能量状态就会重新翻越阈值线，白发便能奇迹般地逆转为黑发。相反，如果一根头发已经变白了 10 年，或者毛囊已经随着衰老深陷于阈值线下方极远处，那么无论如何努力，它都无法再回到阈值线以上。因此，白发这种看似非黑即白（Binary）的特征，在临界点附近拥有极为珍贵的逆转窗口。 - **累积损伤与能量阻抗**：毛囊细胞随时间逐渐积累能量代谢损伤，对能量流动的阻抗逐渐增大。 - **阈值效应（Threshold Model）**：毛囊色素沉着遵循二元阈值机制，能量充足时合成黑色素，一旦因压力跌破阈值即变白。 - **逆转条件与不可逆阶段**：初变白时处于阈值边缘，消除压力（如度假）或改善代谢即可重获黑色；若长期处于慢性压力下或已持续灰白多年，则脱离了“机会之窗”，彻底无法逆转。 --- ### [42:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2567s) 心理韧性与能量链条：从一封糟糕的邮件到线粒体枯竭 Steven 由此将话题引向认知与心态层面：如果面对同一封令人绝望的邮件，消极的人陷入极度恐慌，而拥有高度心理韧性的人心里想的却是“去他的，谁在乎呢”，那么后者在全天 24 小时里是否会因为皮质醇更少、线粒体能耗更低而变得远比前者高效？ Picard 肯定了这一推论：“摧毁我们的从来不是压力本身，而是我们对压力做出的反应。”在生物学中，没有什么是免费的（Nothing is free in biology）。当你对负面事件产生强烈反应时，全身上下的生理机器都被迫付费运转： 为了应对威胁，心脏加速跳动，心肌细胞在疯狂燃烧 ATP；肩膀下意识地紧绷耸起，骨骼肌在燃烧能量；大脑则急速切入反刍模式，深陷焦虑并翻找童年创伤记忆，脑神经回路剧烈耗能；甚至身体开始冒冷汗——身体的每一个应激反应，背后都是真实的细胞能量账单。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 压力刺激引发的细胞能耗链条与干预节点 accDescr: 描绘了从外部压力事件到心理叙事、内分泌响应，再到线粒体超载耗竭的全过程，并标出了内省感知的干预位置。 A["外部刺激\n（收到解雇邮件）"] --> B["心理叙事与解读\n（我完了/前途尽毁）"] B --> C["神经内分泌反应\n（释放皮质醇/肾上腺素）"] C --> D["外周靶器官应激\n（心跳加速/肌肉紧绷/出汗）"] D --> E["线粒体能耗激增\n（细胞能量储备耗竭/疲惫）"] Intervention["干预节点：身体感知与觉察\n（Interoception / 正念打断）"] -.->|阻断| B ``` Steven 随即梳理出了这一连串因果链条：看到写着“你被解雇了”的糟糕邮件 $\rightarrow$ 心理层面建立糟糕的自我叙事 $\rightarrow$ 激发皮质醇等化学物质的生理分泌 $\rightarrow$ 信号进入细胞与线粒体，迫使其超负荷运转并消耗巨量能量 $\rightarrow$ 每日有限的能量额度被透支，最终导致整个人极度疲惫。Picard 对此高度赞同，并指出明确梳理出这条链条的意义在于找到了“干预点”（Intervention point）。 打破这一耗竭链条的核心，在于培养“内省感知”（Interoception）与身体觉察。沉思冥想与正念修习者之所以推崇觉察力，正是因为当你能够敏锐察觉到身体的生理应激反应并与之平静共处时，你就从自动化的被动反应中获得了自由，能够理性判断：“我现在真的需要启动全套应激反应吗？”从而在源头上截断能量的无谓流失。 --- ### [45:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2717s) 急性压力与慢性压力：能量消耗与觉察的干预点 在理清能量消耗机制的基础上，Steven 进一步区分了两种截然不同的压力模式： 第一种是**急性压力（Acute stress）**，例如收到一封刺激性邮件后瞬间产生的生理脉冲，但在 5 分钟后情绪便平复如初，这种短期的急性压力在生物学上通常是正常且有益的； 第二种则是**慢性压力（Chronic stress）**，即个体连续数周甚至数月，每天清晨醒来内心深处都笼罩着挥之不去的焦虑与紧绷感，这种无法平息的慢性应激会造成极大的系统性损伤。 Picard 赞同这一区分，并强调这正将讨论引回了生命的核心本质——即“能量在机体中究竟是如何流动与分配的”。急性压力是能量的瞬时动员与随后回落，而慢性压力则让线粒体长期处于高阻抗与过度耗竭的战备状态中，最终全面破坏机体的能量稳态。 ### [45:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2746s) 能量阻力与线粒体适应：为什么适度压力有益 面对史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）对“能量阻力（Energy Resistance）”概念的困惑，马丁·皮卡德博士（Dr. Martin Picard）借用运动训练作出了直观的阐释。当人开始锻炼、肌肉剧烈收缩时，体内不仅存在物理阻力，更承受着能量层面的阻力。能量试图快速流经肌肉细胞，而线粒体则是负责处理这些能量流的“通道”。如果一个人的肌肉中只有少量线粒体，却突然进行高强度的冲刺跑或间歇训练，线粒体便没有足够的能力承载肌肉索取的庞大能量负荷。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 能量阻力与线粒体适应模型 accDescr: 展示能量需求与流动容量不平衡如何产生阻力，并在恢复期诱导线粒体增生。 subgraph StressPhase ["急性压力阶段（锻炼/高负荷）"] A["高能量需求 (Demand)"] --> C["阻力上升 = 需求 / 容量"] B["线粒体容量有限 (Flow Capacity)"] --> C C --> D["细胞发热、酸痛与炎症反应"] end subgraph AdaptationPhase ["恢复与适应阶段（休息/睡眠）"] D --> E["阻力消退与细胞警报触发"] E --> F["启动线粒体生物合成 (Biogenesis)"] F --> G["线粒体数量翻倍，提升能量流通效率"] end ``` 这种“能量需求与流通容量的失衡”，其比值（需求 ÷ 容量）在物理与生物学意义上就是阻力。当需求暴增而线粒体储备不足时，阻力骤增，肌肉内部会发热、产生炎症并伴随剧烈灼痛，令人倍感痛苦。然而，运动的真正益处并不发生在运动发生的当下，而是发生在随后的“恢复期”。当肌肉放松、人进入深度睡眠、能量阻力随之回落时，细胞便会启动自适应机制并发出警觉：“刚才系统被强行灌入了无法承受的能量，下次决不能再这样，我们必须制造更多线粒体。” - **线粒体容量翻倍**：长期处于久坐状态的人（Couch potato）若开始接受马拉松训练，其肌肉中的线粒体总量可以增加整整一倍。 - **压力的适应性价值**：急性压力脉冲（Spike of stress）本质上并非坏事，它通过暂时拉高阻力激活身体的代偿机制，促使生理系统在长远看来变得更加高效，让个体以更低的基线阻力去应对日常生活。 --- ### [48:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2898s) 白发的起源：身体的能量预算与“马斯洛需求层级” 史蒂芬将长出白发比作“倒下的最后一张多米诺骨牌”，并追问推倒整个链条的第一张骨牌究竟是什么。他坦言自己深有感触：每当经历几周或几个月的高压工作，照镜子时就会猛然发现白发大量爆发，从最初的十几根蹿升到二三十根。皮卡德博士解释道，机体每天的能量预算是有限的，生命体必须像经营一家企业一样调配资源——若某处开销激增，就必须从其他部门抽调预算。 在解释这一过程时，现场发生了一段突发小插曲：史蒂芬的手无意间探向桌下，突然摸到了一个毛茸茸的脑袋，吓得他浑身一颤、大呼救命。皮卡德博士随即打趣道：“看，这就是一次典型的‘急性压力反应’！” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 生物体能量需求层级金字塔 accDescr: 类似马斯洛需求金字塔，展示人体在能量受限时自下而上的优先级分配机制。 subgraph HighPriority ["高优先级：生死存亡底线"] P1["基础生存：应对急性威胁、逃生、维持呼吸心跳"] P2["应激防线：对抗感染、全身慢性炎症"] end subgraph LowPriority ["低优先级：抗衰与长远维护（资源不足时最先被削减）"] P3["组织日常维护：皮肤弹力蛋白修复、消除眼袋"] P4["非生存必需合成：毛囊黑色素生成（维持黑发）"] end P1 --> P2 P2 -. 资源受限时切断供给.-> P3 P3 --> P4 ``` 抚平惊吓后，皮卡德博士将机体的能量分配机制比作“马斯洛需求层级理论”（Maslow's hierarchy of needs）。在心理学上，人类只有在温饱、安全等底层需求得到保障后，才会去构建人际关系、钻研技能，最后才触及自我实现与灵性提升等精神层面的追求；一旦生存环境遭遇严重威胁，金字塔顶端的事物最先被放弃。身体内部的能量法则亦是如此： - **能量层级排序**：毛囊产生黑色素、保持发色乌黑，在身体的生存需求金字塔中处于最底层。 - **应激夺取能量**：当面临生死存亡（例如遭遇猛兽追赶）或长期职场焦虑时，身体会把所有宝贵的能量投入到即刻的战斗或逃跑反应中，并在心里宣告：“听着，我们现在没闲工夫修复眼角皮肤或在毛囊里合成黑色素，长几道皱纹、头发变白死不了人。” - **生长、维持与修复（Growth, Maintenance, and Repair）**：这些抗衰老程序需要消耗大量能量，但在机体疲于应对生活压力、低效线粒体和全身慢性炎症时，它们成为最先被“停机断供”的牺牲品。 - **高压职业的面貌剧变**：美国总统任职前后的惊人衰老，以及英超联赛（Premier League）足球教练在执教短短两年内满头白发、眼袋深重、仿佛老了十岁的现象，正是全身能量长期向应激系统过度倾斜、导致外表组织修复停滞的生动写照。 --- ### [51:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3103s) 抗衰老的真正秘密：能量分配与提升机能效率 史蒂芬由此得出结论：抗衰老的根本核心其实就在于能量的合理调配。皮卡德博士对此深表认同，并指出，如果一个人不再把能量白白耗费在为过去懊悔、为未来焦虑的心智内耗中，能够学会活在当下、减少过激的应激反应，那些被省下的宝贵能量就能重新流向抗衰老、细胞修复与组织维护。 史蒂芬随即提出了一个看似合理的设想：既然能量预算不够，我们能否直接从输入端“做大蛋糕”，比如多吃点东西来增加能量储备，避免毛囊黑色素细胞断电？ 皮卡德博士断然否定了这个假设。他指出，人体并不具备这种无限扩容的弹性机制，**“摄入更多食物绝不会让你拥有更多可用能量，也不可能延缓衰老”**。在能量摄入存在上限与生理天花板的前提下，延缓衰老与充沛精力的真正出路在于**“提高系统效率”**： - **食物并非越多越好**：暴饮暴食不仅无法补充有效能量，反而会加重代谢器官的转化与降解负担。 - **主动制造可控阻力**：除了心理层面的情绪减负，科学规律的体育锻炼是提升系统效率的关键手段。锻炼本身是在短暂增加能量阻力、引发氧化应激和微损伤，甚至伴随耗散损失（Dissipated losses）；但它给身体传递了至关重要的适应性信号。 - **全方位生理重构**：为了下一次能更从容地应对高阻力挑战，身体在恢复期会主动增加线粒体密度，使肌肉更紧实有力、心脏收缩更有力、血管弹性显著恢复，从而彻底降低整个生命系统的日常运转阻力。 ### [54:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3271s) 运动如何重塑能量预算：从高消耗到高能效 在健身房挥汗如雨一小时，本质上是在向身体发出明确的信号：“这就是我们未来要应对的环境与挑战。”面对这种刺激，身体的本能反应是“准备就绪”。由于人体每天的总体能量预算（Energy budget）基本上是恒定有上限的，身体为了在未来更好地应对负荷，唯一的策略就是提升能量利用的效率。这意味着身体会合成更多线粒体、打造更富有弹性与适应力的心血管循环系统，并显著降低全身的慢性炎症水平。 这些适应性改变大幅削减了日常生理活动的能量成本，从而释放出更多盈余能量，用于抗衰老、组织生长、日常维护修复以及维持充沛的生命活力。这也解释了一个看似矛盾的生理现象：为什么运动本身明明消耗了大量能量，运动后人反而会觉得“精力更加充沛”？正如 Dr. Martin Picard 指出，运动并不会凭空创造出额外的总能量，“你感觉自己拥有更多能量，仅仅是因为能量在这具身体里的流动变得更加通畅与高效了。” - **线粒体密度的提升**：通过运动训练增加线粒体数量，大幅降低单次生理活动所需的能量消耗基线。 - **能量流转效率**：体感上的“精力旺盛”并非总能量数值暴增，而是身体阻力减少、代谢流转顺畅的外在体现。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 运动诱导能量效率重构机制 accDescr: 展示运动刺激如何促使身体提升代谢效率并释放维护能量 subgraph Stimulation["外界刺激"] A["高强度训练 / 健身一小时"] --> B["向机体发出适应信号"] end subgraph Adaptation["生理适应与能效提升"] B --> C["增加线粒体数量"] B --> D["增强心血管弹性与降低炎症"] C & D --> E["降低基础活动能耗成本"] end subgraph Allocation["能量再分配（恒定预算下）"] E --> F["释放更多冗余能量"] F --> G["抗衰老 / 组织修复 / 认知活力"] end ``` --- ### [55:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3332s) 毒素、酒精与免疫战争：被偷走的生命能量 针对摄入物对体内能量流动效率的影响，Dr. Picard 强调了一条基本的生物学铁律：“在生物学中，没有什么是免费的（Nothing is free in biology）。”酒精本质上是乙醇，对机体而言属于外源性毒素。一旦饮酒，肝脏内的解毒系统就必须全速运转，将乙醇分子分解并排出体外，这一解毒代谢过程需要耗费巨额的能量。虽然酒精本身含有热量卡路里，但饮酒绝不可能让人获得更多可用精力，宿醉后的萎靡不振正是能量被大量耗竭的直接后果。 实验室代谢舱的研究清晰证实了这一点：受试者被安置在密闭测热实验室内静坐看书，研究人员分分钟监测其维持生命所需的能量代谢率；当受试者饮下酒精后，其体内的能量消耗曲线立刻急剧飙升。尽管主观感觉十分放松，但身体内部系统却在疯狂燃烧能量以清除这些毒素。食物中的农药残留以及其他化学添加剂同样遵循这种机制，它们在暗中持续盗取本该用于身体生长与修复的能量。南美洲流行病学数据也印证了相同的规律：那些因缺乏卫生设施、赤足行走而长期暴露于病原体（病毒、细菌、肠道寄生虫）环境中的儿童，其机体为了对抗感染必须持续消耗大量能量，从而直接剥夺了发育所需的能量配额。 同样的机制也发生在感冒发烧时。当流感或 COVID 病毒入侵体内，免疫系统瞬间进入过载运转模式全力剿灭病原体，这会迅速从大脑和心理认知系统中掠夺走海量能量。人在生病时表现出的“生病行为”（Sickness behavior）——诸如极度嗜睡、畏寒、畏惧社交、皮肤敏感甚至不愿挪动分毫，本质上都是大脑演化出的极端节能策略，目的是强制机体切断一切非必要消耗，将能量全盘让渡给免疫防线。 - **密闭代谢舱实验**：人体静息状态下摄入酒精后，分钟级实时监测显示代谢率与能量消耗显著攀升，机体全力进行生化解毒。 - **生病行为的本质**：发烧感冒时的无力感与社交退缩并非单纯的病理损伤，而是中枢神经系统主动执行的“能量配给与节流策略”。 --- ### [58:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3538s) “士兵分流”假说与线粒体自噬的质量控制 主持人提出一个生动的“十人守卫军”比喻：如果人体拥有一支由 10 名士兵组成的部队，平时全员负责维持生存、细胞生长与繁荣；一旦身体遭受外源毒素或病原体入侵，就必须抽调其中 4 名士兵前去阻击外敌。此时留下来维持生命基底运转的士兵仅剩 6 名，长期处于这种“能量分流（Energetic distraction）”的慢性状态下，机体只能被迫牺牲次要功能——灰发、皱纹悄然滋生，大脑认知变慢，免疫系统甚至无暇巡逻并清除早期的癌变细胞。 Dr. Picard 对这一模型高度认同，并进一步阐明细胞内部每天都在进行的“质量控制循环（Quality control cycle）”。健康状态下，机体会主动降解清除磨损或低效的细胞器，并合成功能完备的新细胞器。这其中最核心的环节被称为“线粒体自噬（Mitophagy，即线粒体自我吞噬）”。当细胞面临轻微的饥饿或能量匮乏信号时，机体会感知到潜在的能量危机，从而开启极致的节约模式：“既然能量可能见底，我们就不能容忍吃白饭的部件，必须淘汰那些产能不能达标的劣化线粒体，只留下最强悍的线粒体。”而当营养重新恢复供应时，细胞便会以优质线粒体为模板，合成出更多高效的新线粒体。 - **质量控制周期**：机体每日动态平衡老化线粒体的降解与新生，维持亚细胞层面的高能效输出。 - **线粒体自噬的诱发条件**：短期能量匮乏或禁食信号能促使细胞优胜劣汰，剔除低效能线粒体，优化能量生产网络。 --- ### [01:01:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3661s) 阿尔茨海默病的能量真相：打破淀粉样蛋白神话 在谈及这种慢性“能量分流”是否与神经退行性疾病相关时，讨论延伸到了阿尔茨海默病（Alzheimer's disease）与痴呆症的病因学争议。大众普遍接受传统医学观点，认为大脑中积累的淀粉样蛋白斑块（Amyloid plaques）与 Tau 蛋白缠结（Tau tangles）是导致认知障碍的根本元凶。然而 Dr. Picard 直言不讳地指出，这一假说并非事实全貌。现代高精度神经影像学研究展现了两个完全矛盾的极端临床事实： 1. 许多六七十岁甚至八十多岁的老人，脑内完全检测不到任何异常蛋白沉积，却表现出典型的全病程阿尔茨海默病与严重痴呆症状； 2. 另一些高龄人群脑内充斥着密密麻麻的淀粉样蛋白斑块与 Tau 蛋白缠结，其认知功能与记忆力却完全健康正常。 这些极端案例有力地反驳了“异常蛋白聚集是神经退行性变唯一驱动源”的传统教条。Dr. Picard 揭示，从生物能量学的视角来看，阿尔茨海默病早期最显著的特征其实是特定脑区能量需求的异常激增——即“高代谢状态（Hypermetabolic）”。这类似于白发形成前黑色素干细胞的过载运转，属于受损脑区在生理衰退初期做出的代偿性过度代偿反应（Compensatory coping）。然而，随着能量储备长期被过度透支，受累脑区最终不可逆地滑向“低代谢状态（Hypometabolic）”，此时神经元能量彻底断流，临床上的记忆衰退、认知丧失与脑萎缩症状才正式爆发。 - **淀粉样蛋白悖论**：神经影像学证实蛋白斑块沉积与认知障碍严重程度之间缺乏必然因果对应关系。 - **脑区代谢双相演变**：阿尔茨海默病病理呈现“早期代偿性高代谢（能量过度代偿） $\to$ 晚期耗竭性低代谢（功能崩溃发病）”的能量演变规律。 ### [01:03:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3800s) 大脑的能量危机：从高代谢代偿到神经退行性低代谢 大脑不同区域维持正常的生理运转需要消耗基础的能量配额。皮卡德博士以一个直观的数字设想为例：假设某个大脑脑区正常情况下需要消耗 100 个能量单位来维系健康的神经功能；一旦线粒体功能受损，或者神经元之间通过突触（Synapse）进行的信号传递受阻，该区域为了勉强维持原有的运算与沟通，就不得不加大马力超负荷工作，从而索取更多能量来进行功能代偿。 与神经退行性病变及阿尔茨海默病（Alzheimer's disease）紧密相连的另一个核心现象是神经炎症（Neuroinflammation）。在大脑内部，当负责修复与清理的胶质细胞察觉异样时，它们会启动局部的应激反应并分泌细胞因子（Cytokines），就像在细胞层面拉响警报、高喊“出了问题，我们得把它修好”。这一自我修复和维持稳态（Homeostasis）的生化过程代价高昂，需要消耗大量能量，性质类似于高强度运动后肌肉投入额外能量进行自我修复和强化。因此，在疾病的早期阶段，大脑常表现为**高代谢**（Hypermetabolism）或所谓的“功能亢进”（Hyperfunction）。 然而，这种长期的超负荷代偿并非可持续状态。随着时间推移，过度运转的脑区逐渐精疲力竭，最终转入能量燃烧严重不足的**低代谢**（Hypometabolism）阶段。皮卡德指出，在阿尔茨海默病患者的大脑影像中，可以清楚看到许多脑区能量代谢极其低下。能量是意识与认知活动的物质基石，“想要产生一个想法并对这个想法形成清晰的自我意识，你必须燃烧能量”。随着能量供应枯竭，大脑便无法调用远期记忆、建立概念联想、规划未来或调节情绪，这也是为何痴呆症患者往往伴随严重的抑郁和情绪失控。 --- ### [01:05:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3932s) 3型糖尿病假说：能量阻抗与糖负荷过载 面对主持人史蒂文关于阿尔茨海默病是否就是当下常被讨论的“3型糖尿病”（Type 3 Diabetes）的提问，皮卡德给出了肯定的直觉判断：阿尔茨海默病以及更广泛意义上的痴呆症，本质上就是一种**能量障碍**，具体而言是一种“能量阻抗（Energy Resistance）增加”的疾病。当大脑开始生病并显现记忆丧失与抑郁等一系列痴呆症状时，脑内不仅能量消耗水平降低，葡萄糖进入大脑细胞进行加工利用的难度也急剧上升，表现为葡萄糖电导率下降、阻抗升高。 为什么原本极其依赖葡萄糖的大脑会对能量产生抵抗？皮卡德的解释是：外界持续向这一精密系统强行灌注了过量的葡萄糖。如果一个人的血液中始终充斥着高浓度葡萄糖，或者本身患有糖尿病，那么过载的血糖就会像高压电一样，不间断地向极其娇贵敏感的生物组织施加能量压力。“这就像强行拔高一盏精致台灯的输入电压，最终它注定会被烧毁着火。” 皮卡德将人体细胞的能量转化比作一场“缓慢燃烧的火焰”。在细胞和线粒体内部，电子沿着呼吸链持续流动；一旦能量负荷过载，电子传递过程就会发生泄漏并“火星四溅”，对线粒体本身及周围结构造成氧化损伤。在生物学最底层的逻辑上，所谓的衰老（Aging）——包括导致阿尔茨海默病的大脑衰老——本质上就是这些微小损伤、突变、缺陷与不完美在长年累月中的不断堆积。缺陷累积得越多，整个能量利用系统的效率就越低下。 --- ### [01:07:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4036s) 胰岛素抵抗与肥胖：线粒体的自我保护机制 从线粒体生物学的视角来看，“胰岛素抵抗”（Insulin Resistance）并非系统失灵的单纯病态，而是外周肌肉乃至大脑组织在面对致命能量过载时启动的一种**自我防御机制**。当血液中涌入过量血糖时，健康的身体会大量分泌胰岛素，命令肌肉细胞作为主要的葡萄糖缓冲池迅速将糖吸收，以保护极其脆弱的大脑、视网膜与末梢神经不受高糖毒性侵蚀。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 能量过载与组织防御机制 accDescr: 展示从血液长期高糖到线粒体超载，最终引发肌肉胰岛素抵抗与脂肪储存代偿的病理生理循环流程。 subgraph Input ["持续能量超载"] A["长期高血糖 / 高能量饮食"] --> B["电子传递链超载火星四溅"] end subgraph Defense ["靶器官自我保护"] B --> C["肌肉与线粒体逼近负荷极限"] C --> D["细胞内吞 / 撤回胰岛素受体"] D --> E["形成胰岛素抵抗 (切断糖摄入)"] end subgraph Overflow ["全身代偿与溢出"] E --> F["血液游离糖与能量进一步堆积"] F --> G["脂肪组织扩容储存 (肥胖机制)"] end ``` 然而，当肌肉细胞内的线粒体已经处于满负荷状态、无法承受更多的电子流动压力时，为了避免自身线粒体被彻底损毁，细胞做出了被动的自保抉择：它们主动将细胞表面的胰岛素受体撤回或使其脱敏，直接“关紧水阀”，拒绝接纳更多葡萄糖。 - **线粒体自保与血糖飙升**：肌肉产生胰岛素抵抗虽然在局部拯救了肌肉细胞内的线粒体，但导致血液中的葡萄糖无处可去，使得系统性血糖进一步攀升。 - **肥胖作为终极能量缓冲**：血液循环中无处安放的过剩糖分与游离脂肪酸必须找到归宿，机体于是将能量大量封存在脂肪组织中。皮卡德强调，肥胖（Obesity）在本质上是身体抵御过剩能量阻抗而建立的一道缓冲防御防线。 --- ### [01:08:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4134s) 酮体供能与线粒体社交网络：阿尔茨海默病的代谢破解之道 为了探讨认知障碍与糖过载之间的因果关联，史蒂文提到了生活在非洲、几乎不接触精制糖与高糖饮食的原住民哈扎部落（Hadza tribe）。皮卡德指出，纵观所有关于阿尔茨海默病风险因素的科学文献，那些增加患病几率的因素（如高血糖、糖尿病、缺乏身体活动）全都在加剧体内的能量阻抗；反之，所有已被证实能够保护大脑、降低痴呆风险的手段，核心都在于**促使能量在线粒体间顺畅流动**。 其中，最典型的保护机制便是规律运动、限制精制糖摄入，以及生酮饮食（Ketogenic diet）所带来的**酮体代谢**。许多人在尝试生酮饮食后会感到精力更加充沛，这并非因为摄入了更多热量，而是附着在酮体上的电子相比葡萄糖更容易在线粒体内部流动。这里揭示了一幅极为动人的生命图景——“线粒体的社交网络（Sociality of Mitochondria）”： ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 肝脏与大脑线粒体间的酮体代谢轴 accDescr: 说明膳食脂肪在肝脏线粒体转化为酮体，随后经血液入脑并高效供给大脑线粒体能量的极简通路。 subgraph Liver ["肝脏器官"] A["膳食优质脂肪<br/>(黄油/牛油果/油脂)"] --> B["肝脏线粒体<br/>氧化生成酮体"] end subgraph Transport ["循环流动"] B --> C["入血运送至大脑"] end subgraph Brain ["中枢神经"] C --> D["大脑线粒体<br/>短通路直接高效供能"] end ``` 当人体摄入优质脂肪（如牛油果、植物油、肉类和黄油）后，肝脏（部分经由肾脏）的线粒体充当“加工厂”，将脂肪转化为酮体释放到血液中。这些酮体跨越血脑屏障，直接喂养大脑神经元中的线粒体，完成了肝脏线粒体与大脑线粒体之间跨器官的深层对话与供能支援。 更关键的是，从进入细胞到在线粒体内完成能量释放，酮体所需的酶催化反应步数和生物“电阻”极少；相较于葡萄糖极其漫长复杂的代谢通路，酮体的生化路径要短得多。针对史蒂文“大量摄入酮体是否也会引发大脑能量过载”的顾虑，皮卡德解释道，人体有一套天然的饱腹反馈机制，单纯摄入脂肪与酮体很难让人进食过量；然而，一旦将精制糖引入饮食，或者将高糖与高脂混合，人脑的奖赏中枢就会被瞬间绑架，人们不再因真正的饥饿而进食，食欲调节系统彻底紊乱——而这也正是当下 GLP-1 受体激动剂类减重药物引发巨大关注的根本原因。 ### [01:12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4320s) 原始部族极少痴呆的启示：内脏脂肪与“能量阻力”的真正危险 现代医学在观察原住民社群时发现了一个极为引人瞩目的现象。以坦桑尼亚的哈扎人（Hadza）狩猎采集部落，或者西非的约鲁巴（Yoruba）传统农耕人群为例，阿尔茨海默病和血管性痴呆在这些群体中极其罕见。这种显著的健康差异直接将矛头指向了现代西方生活方式：高能量饮食以及极度缺乏身体活动的日常行为。这些原住民群体整天都在运动，摄入的热量恰如其分，绝大多数人根本不需要依赖庞大的“脂肪电容器”来储存过剩能量。 对于现代人而言，能量过剩的危害在代谢层面被进一步放大。有些人天生体质偏瘦（congenital leanness），自身皮下脂肪储存能力有限，无法通过正常增胖来缓冲多余热量。一旦暴饮暴食，多余的高糖和高脂就会持续在血液中累积，最终形成异位沉积（ectopic fat）——渗透进骨骼肌、肝脏甚至大脑深处。这种现象也就是俗称的“瘦胖子”（skinny fat）。此时过剩的能量压力会导致生物系统“过热”受损。 深入内脏的内脏脂肪（visceral fat）与全身性炎症及多种慢性疾病高度相关。但 Dr Martin Picard 强调，内脏脂肪的堆积本身只是一种生理表象。肥胖之所以危险，是因为它映射了人体深层的一个核心失衡——“能量阻力”（energy resistance）。当系统内部灌注了过量的能量燃料，而线粒体处理链无法维持通畅运转时，整个生理循环便会卡滞；为了保护自身免受过度氧化和高压损伤，细胞被迫将多余能量打包转化为脂肪，从而演化为肥胖与代谢紊乱。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 能量过剩与能量阻力机制 accDescr: 展示过剩热量如何导致线粒体超载并转化为内脏脂肪与全身炎症 subgraph INTAKE["能量摄入与负荷"] A["高能量/西方饮食"] --> B["过剩热量进入血流"] end subgraph OVERLOAD["代谢超载与异位沉积"] B --> C{"皮下脂肪缓冲已满<br/>或天生偏瘦"} C --> D["异位脂肪沉积<br/>(肝脏/肌肉/大脑)"] C --> E["内脏脂肪显著增加"] end subgraph RESISTANCE["细胞能量危机"] D --> F["线粒体处理超负荷"] E --> F F --> G["系统能量阻力上升<br/>(Energy Resistance)"] G --> H["慢性炎症与神经退行性病变"] end ``` - 核心案例对比：非洲坦桑尼亚哈扎部落（Hadza）与约鲁巴人（Yoruba）几乎不存在阿尔茨海默病与血管性痴呆，得益于高活动量与无多余热量堆积的生活模式。 - 病理本质：肥胖不仅是脂肪组织增多，更是线粒体能量吞吐“阻力”激增的外在警告信号。 --- ### [01:13:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4434s) 脑力燃油赞助与精品冷冻咖啡插播 节目的插播环节中提到了对专注力与能量维持的商业支持。综合格斗（MMA）名将乔恩·琼斯（Jon "Bones" Jones）以及摔跤金牌选手加布尔·史蒂文森（Gable Steveson）对酮体补剂的信赖成为焦点。酮体（ketones）不同于咖啡因那种靠刺激中枢神经系统带来的暂时性亢奋，它直接作为脑细胞的高效清洁燃料，在大脑更易吸收和代谢的前提下提供平稳、持久的专注力，避免了能量断崖式下跌（crash）。此外，节目还推荐了采用急速冷冻锁鲜工艺的单品咖啡品牌 Cometeer，展现了不同烘焙风味在全球各地的精选体验。 --- ### [01:15:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4556s) 从线粒体的视角审视进食：为什么我们其实并不缺能量 面对当下流行的断食、自噬（autophagy）以及如何优化身体能量效率的诸多理论，Dr Martin Picard 给出的首要建议是：建立对身体真实需求的敏锐感知。在决定是否进食时，不能仅从体重或体态美观出发，而应感受内在的精力和神智状态：“我现在到底需要食物吗？我是感到精疲力竭、电量耗尽，还是因为体内积压了过多食物，导致整个机体正艰难地对抗这种摩擦力和能量高压？”他建议从线粒体的视角来审视餐盘：线粒体此刻真正需要什么？ 对于现代生活在优渥环境中的绝大多数人而言，几乎不可能把线粒体饿到“枯竭”，少吃一顿对身体通常毫无害处。相反，摄入过多热量有着明确且沉重的生理代价——它会直接增加线粒体内部的电子传递摩擦力与阻力。人体自身拥有极强的能量储备能力，储存在骨骼肌和肝脏中的糖原，以及庞大的脂肪组织，足以在需要时分解并合成酮体，支持正常成年人至少维持一个月的生命运转。 - 极端禁食纪录：人类历史上严格禁食的最长世界纪录由一名爱尔兰男子保持，他在医疗监护下持续断食超过 300 天，依靠自身储备消耗减去了 250 至 300 磅体重。 - 生理耐受极限：人体在缺水环境下难以持久，但在有水分保证的前提下，机体可以通过调用脂肪储备和肌肉异生供能存活数月之久。 --- ### [01:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4686s) 虚假饥饿与时间限制进食法：为何空腹反而让你精力充沛 现代社会充斥着全天候的食物供应，很多人从早吃到晚，形成了“一天多餐加零食”的习惯。然而 Dr Martin Picard 指出，我们日常感知到的“饥饿感”往往充满欺骗性，绝大多数进食并不是为了满足生理生存，而是为了填补情绪需求。吃东西能激活大脑内与赌博、人际联结相同的多巴胺奖励回路。当人们感到无聊、悲伤或压力过大时，高盐、高糖的食物成了一种逃避不适感受的即时奖赏机制。“怀疑自己的饥饿感”是保持代谢清醒的关键前提，因为在现代环境下，“绝大多数人都在过量进食”。 为了打破过度进食的恶性循环，限制进食窗口（Time-Restricted Eating）是一种立竿见影的干预手段。例如采用较为严格的 4 小时进食窗口（如下午 2:00 至 6:00），将进食时间与晚餐社交重合，对改善能量过载非常有效。Picard 提到了自己 69 岁父亲的例子：老一辈人根深蒂固地信奉“早餐是一天中最重要的一餐”，但这种观念对绝大多数处于中老年阶段的人而言并不健康。随着年龄增长代谢放缓，如果从早到晚持续进食，机体就永远没有机会触发“高效运作模式”。 当细胞长期缺乏精简与自噬清理的窗口，功能受损、效率地下的劣质线粒体就会在体内积聚，产生更多内部摩擦和促炎信号，最终表现为整个人无精打采、持续疲惫。许多人从一日三餐加零食转变为间歇性禁食后，哪怕在进食窗口内不刻意节制总量，整天下来反而感觉精力显著提升、神清气爽。这种能量充沛感并非来自体内存入的热量变多，而是来自于阻力解除后，细胞能量流转恢复了顺畅与纯净。 ### [01:20:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4832s) “早餐是最重要的一餐”神话与能量分配的真相 人类感知到的并不是体内储存的能量总量，而是能量的流动方式与转化效率。如果能量流动变得高效，即使摄入的热量减少，人也会感觉状态更好。 谈及饮食对能量的影响，史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）提到一个广为人知的商业营销典故：所谓“早餐是一天中最重要的一餐”，本质上源于一场推销谷物早餐和培根的广告宣传。在工业革命之前，早餐从未被如此严苛地审视过；人们要么吃前一晚剩下的剩菜，要么在上地干重活前匆匆吃一顿油腻扎实的大餐。然而随着城市化推进，人们开始转入久坐的办公室工作，那些沉重油腻的早餐引发了广泛的消化不良。此时，经营知名疗养院的约翰·哈维·凯洛格（John Harvey Kellogg）登场，他笃信清淡、以谷物为主的饮食能治愈消化系统问题，随后共同发明了玉米片。谷物巨头们顺水推舟，大肆宣传清凉的谷物早餐是精力充沛一整天的必需品，几乎让上一代人全部深信不疑。 马丁·皮卡德（Martin Picard）坦言自己直到最近也深受其害，从小习惯早上吃一大碗谷物麦片，结果饭后往往迅速陷入低能量状态。这是因为大量快速释放的糖分瞬间过载了系统，超出身体当下所需。身体如果无法将这部分糖分转化为脂肪储存，多余的代谢压力就会冲击大脑，让人感觉萎靡不振。两人总结道，想要全天状态最佳，就必须缩短进食窗口，吃得刚好满足身体所需，绝不能过量进食。偶尔少吃一顿并无大碍，隔天自然能补回来；但当天一旦吃得过多，代谢系统负荷超载，当天的专注力和表现就会彻底崩塌。 ### [01:22:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=4970s) 生病时的能量重新分配：高代谢与精疲力竭的悖论 皮卡德分享了自己的一次真实经历，用以说明免疫应激如何剧烈改变能量的流向。那是在某一年的跨年夜（12月31日），傍晚时分他隐隐感到喉咙发痒，意识到自己可能要生病。虽然去参加了晚宴且并未咳嗽传染他人，但流感症状迅速暴发。当晚9点到10点左右他提前赶回家，经历了极其难受、浑身剧痛且伴随高烧的一整夜。他特意泡了个温水澡来协助体温升高——因为发烧能有效刺激免疫细胞并削弱病毒活性。 次日，皮卡德整个人瘫倒在床，陷入极度的低落与虚无。戴着 Oura 智能戒指的他发现，自己在静息状态下的心率竟然高达每分钟 110 次（平时仅为 60 次左右）。客观科学研究表明，身体在对抗感染时新陈代谢率极高，燃烧的能量远超平时，然而主观上他却感到能量被彻底抽空。这就是机体的能量约束与能量分配机制：免疫系统启动最高防御级别，像黑洞一样强行抽调了供给大脑和意志的所有能量。 当时他正着手撰写一本关于人体能量的书，心中甚至闪过一个念头：“这是一个绝佳的研究案例，我应该把此刻的身体感受记录下来。”然而，仅仅是伸手把身旁的笔记本电脑拉过来、靠在床头打字这样微小的动作，他都完全提不起力气。更奇异的是，平时他视如生命的工作、实验室和家庭事务，在彼时彼刻变得毫无意义，整个人只剩下一个原始本能——生存。这种状态就像马斯洛需求层次理论被彻底压扁，只剩最底层的生存机制，高阶意识与关切完全退场。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 免疫系统激活时的能量再分配机制 accDescr: 展示生病时机体整体代谢率升高，但因免疫系统大量吸走能量，导致大脑高阶意志与认知活动能量枯竭。 subgraph Defense ["防御机制（底层生存）"] Immune["免疫系统全开<br/>（高烧 / 抵抗感染）"] Heart["静息心率飙升至 110 bpm<br/>代谢率客观升高"] end subgraph BrainDepletion ["意识与认知枯竭"] Mind["大脑高阶功能断电<br/>意志力、目标感归零"] NoCare["失去对工作、生活的关切<br/>仅维持底层生存状态"] end Immune -->|强制抽调大部分能量| BrainDepletion Heart -.->|高耗能状态| Immune ``` ### [01:26:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=5167s) 激光与白炽灯：能量相干性与创始人的“动力危机” 高烧退去后的第三天，皮卡德终于重新恢复了对生活目标的感知，并开始在电脑上复盘这一体验。他用物理学中的光作比喻：能量的状态分为“激光”和“老式白炽灯”。两者的能量总量可能完全相同，但激光的光子彼此同相、高度相干（Coherence），因而穿透力极强、能射向极远的地方；而白炽灯的光子向四面八方漫射、彼此冲突，光线十分微弱弥散。生病或严重应激时，大脑的能量就变成了漫射的白炽灯，无法向外延伸去关照长远事务。 史蒂文由此联想到自己创办上一家公司时的经历。在企业高速增长期，营收从 100 万、600 万一路飙升至 1200 万乃至 2500 万美元，但由于支出先于回款，公司长期面临严重的现金流危机。在连续数月接近月末无法给员工发薪的高压时刻（尽管每次最终都想办法按时发薪，员工从未察觉），史蒂文发现自己会陷入严重的“动力丧失”。作为一名年仅 23、24 岁、管理着上百名（不少年龄是他两倍）员工的年轻 CEO，他会在一两周的时间里躲在家里不敢出门，彻底失去了领导团队的目标与动力。 一旦现金流危机得到解除，那种带领企业的宏大愿景和动力便会瞬间聚焦归来。史蒂文指出，许多创业者和领导者在遭遇此类情况时会产生极大的内疚感，责怪自己失去了作为舵手的干劲与担当；但从线粒体和能量分配的生理机制来看，这并非心理脆弱或意志不坚定，而是机体在极端生存压力下，自动将能量从高维认知层抽离以应对危机的自然生理反应。 - 关键机制与事实对比： - **白炽灯效应 vs. 激光效应**：能量的效能取决于“相干性”（Coherence）而非单纯的数量。弥散无序的能量无法支撑复杂的长远思考，高度聚焦的能量才能驱动目标达成。 - **高代谢下的疲劳感**：心率升至 110 bpm 显示全身代谢加速，但所有能量被免疫细胞独占，导致神经系统能量赤字，产生类似抑郁的情绪和动力枯竭。 - **极度压力对领导力的生理压制**：现金流危机等强生存威胁等同于机体感染，会直接压制大脑前额叶皮层的高阶抱负，将意识压缩至基础生存模式。 ### [01:28:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=5335s) 能量聚焦与企业目标：从发散的灯泡到激光束 对话从个体在长期能量赤字下的体验延伸到商业运作。Steven Bartlett 指出，能量的发散让他联想到企业管理中的 OKR（目标与关键结果）与团队目标。在一家初创公司中，如果 10 个人都高度专注于同一个明确目标，团队取得成功的概率会大幅提升；反之，若缺乏清晰目标，所有人各行其是，就会陷入混乱与“不相干”（incoherence），宛如一个向四面八方散射的迪斯科旋转球（disco ball）。而要想产生真正的推进力（traction），团队必须化身为一束聚焦的激光，将所有能量击穿到同一个核心问题上。 Dr. Martin Picard 深表赞同，并指出这正是“使命感 / 目标感”（purpose）在生物学与心理层面的核心机制：使命感的作用就是聚焦能量。许多人把寻找人生使命看作一场焦虑的“精神苦旅”，甚至在苦苦寻觅中陷入恐慌；但实际上，当你置身于一份有意义的事业中时，体内原本像灯泡般涣散的能量会被瞬间整合成一束高强度的激光。这种聚焦状态能带来非凡的耐受力与推进力：你可以半天不吃东西依然精力充沛，或者连续一个月应对繁密的高强度会议而不觉倦怠。聚焦让生物能量进入高度有序的相干状态（coherent state），决策也随之变得极其简明——你可以毫不犹豫地对杂事说“不”，只将精力留给最关键的事情，以更少的能量消耗创造出成倍的价值。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 能量状态对比：发散与聚焦 accDescr: 对比发散型能量状态与聚焦型能量状态在能量输出和结果上的差异。 subgraph Diffuse ["发散型状态（缺乏目标 / 噪声干扰）"] A["多向分流的目标"] --> B["能量分散（迪斯科球效应）"] B --> C["高能耗、低产出、精力枯竭"] end subgraph Coherent ["相干型状态（使命驱动 / 激光聚焦）"] D["清晰核心目标 (OKR / 使命感)"] --> E["能量聚焦（激光效应 / 80% 信噪比）"] E --> F["高效率推进、低阻力、带动他人共振"] end ``` ### [01:30:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=5458s) 顶尖执行者的法则：过滤信噪比与极度专注 为了进一步剖析专注力的本质，Steven Bartlett 播放了两段商业巨擘的采访切片。第一段切片中，《Shark Tank》投资人 Kevin O'Leary 回顾了他在 1990 年代初与 Steve Jobs 共同工作以及近距离观察 Elon Musk 的经历。O'Leary 强调，商业领袖最关键的特质在于其处理“信噪比”（signal-to-noise ratio）的能力： - **Steve Jobs 的“信号”定义**：信号绝非未来一周、一个月或一年的宏大构想，而是你在接下来清醒的 18 个小时内必须完成的 3 到 5 件绝密关键任务；凡是阻碍这几件事达成的，全都是“噪声”。Steve Jobs 的信噪比达到了极高的 80/20（80% 信号，20% 噪声），凌晨两点半收到他的工作邮件并要求即刻回复是常态。 - **Elon Musk 的极致状态**：O'Leary 认为唯一比 Jobs 信噪比更高的人是 Elon Musk。Musk 几乎没有任何噪声，在清醒的 18 小时里，每一分钟、每一秒都是 100% 的信号输入与输出。 紧接着，Steven 播放了苹果前首席设计官 Jony Ive 谈论 Steve Jobs 专注力的经典访谈。Ive 指出，专注不是某种每周一随口发誓的口号，而是分分秒秒的警惕：“我们为什么在谈这个？我们当前究竟在攻关什么？”Jobs 曾当面询问 Ive：“你今天对多少件事说了不？”Ive 坦白自己最初会罗列一些本就毫无兴趣的事来交差，但 Jobs 一眼看穿并点醒他：真正的专注，是面对一件全身上下每个细胞都觉得极其精彩、每天醒来都在心心念念的绝妙点子，你却依然能够狠心对它说“不”，只因为你必须全力攻坚当前的目标。 - **核心原则**：解决极度困难的商业与技术问题本身就是艰巨的，上下文切换（context switching）会迅速耗尽精力；顶尖创业者之所以能够破局，是因为他们把每一个可用的能量单元都倾注在唯一的靶心上。 ### [01:35:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=5736s) 能量共振与 Steve Jobs 的“现实扭曲场” Dr. Martin Picard 从物理学与线粒体生物学的视角对这种极致专注做出了深刻解释。他指出，这背后体现的是物理学中的“共振”（resonance）原理。当一个人拥有如此清澈透彻的心智信念，坚信这就是真理与前进方向，并且在言行举止中时刻践行时，他本身就变成了一个强有力的“共振源”（resonator）： - **能量的外化**：这种能量模式不仅体现在发送的邮件和具体行动中，更渗透在领袖的语调、凝视他人的目光细节以及全神贯注的姿态中，构成一种无形的强大“气场”（vibe）。 - **线粒体能量的相干性**：线粒体生成的能量流在体内达到高度一致与协调，向外释放出极其纯净、和谐的信号。就像一首音准完美的交响乐一样，周围的人会不由自主地被这种强烈的纯净信号吸引，甚至产生共振与能量放大。 Steven 随即点明，Picard 博士所描述的这种生物物理共振，精准契合了硅谷历史上著名的“现实扭曲场”（Reality Distortion Field, 简称 RDF）。该词最早由苹果软件工程师 Bud Tribble 于 1981 年提出，用来形容 Steve Jobs 那种近乎催眠的超凡影响力——融合了极度强大的个人魅力、不可动摇的坚强意志以及在既定方向上一往无前的强悍执念。Picard 总结道，这本质上就是一种能量属性：在物理学规律中，只要振动源的能量足够强大、频率足够纯粹，它就必然能够拖曳并同步（entrain）周围其他系统的运转。 ### [01:37:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=5877s) 能量共振与领导力：乔布斯的“现实扭曲力场” 当一个人能够全神贯注地持守某种内在状态时，外界的人事物往往会与之产生强烈的“能量共振”。在旁观者看来，这种现象甚至带着一丝超现实的“共时性”（synchronicity）色彩——比如原本困难重重的筹款突然势如破竹，关键资助人不可思议地被动员起来，事情如同滚雪球般顺遂推进。皮卡德博士指出，这正是因为当事人稳定地维持并放大了那种高频的能量振动。斯蒂芬·巴特利特随即引述了苹果公司早期核心成员安迪·赫茨菲尔德（Andy Hertzfeld）对史蒂夫·乔布斯（Steve Jobs）的经典评价：乔布斯仿佛在“施展法术”，甚至在“扭曲时间与物理法则”。当工程师汇报一项任务需要六个月时，乔布斯会直视对方的双眼断言：“你两周就能搞定。”凭借这种近乎绝对的坚定信念，工程师们往往真的在两周内奇迹般完工，彻底打破并重塑了自己对能力极限的认知。连比尔·盖茨（Bill Gates）也曾公开坦言，面对乔布斯那种令人着迷的个人魅力，自己就像个“初级巫师”般心生嫉妒，甚至发现哪怕乔布斯在撒谎或犯错，听众依然会被他牢牢吸引。 皮卡德博士对此分析道，要创造出这种不可思议的影响力，核心在于当事人必须在内心深处切实感受到某件事具有不可抗拒的重要性和紧迫感。这种感受往往超越了纯粹的理性计算，是一种切身的内在驱动力；唯有先将这种能量高度聚焦，随之而来的注意力、构想与执行架构才能顺畅搭建，从而形成足以承载并维系这股能量流动的闭环体系。 - 安迪·赫茨菲尔德回忆乔布斯通过绝对信念将工程师六个月的开发周期强行压缩至两周，彻底颠覆了团队对可能性的认知。 - 比尔·盖茨自称相比乔布斯犹如“初级巫师”，折服并嫉妒于乔布斯即便在论述不当时也能令全场为之倾倒的能量魅力。 --- ### [01:40:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6002s) 阻力与约束的艺术：育儿与团队管理的平衡之道 斯蒂芬从能量的角度重新审视人际关系：如果我们本质上是在自身系统中流动的能量，那么在这个世界上遇到的一切阻碍归根结底都是“他人”。无论是竞选公职、成为金牌销售还是杰出的慈善家，终极命题都是如何作为一股能量去引导并重塑另一股能量的形态。皮卡德博士深表认同，并指出伟大领袖的核心能力就在于清晰构想愿景并以此凝聚众人。他将这种宏观理念落脚在自己的家庭生活中——面对他六岁的儿子诺亚（Noah），他将孩子视作一个充满活力但尚处稚嫩阶段的“美丽能量图样”。 在育儿与管理中，关键在于施加“恰到好处的阻力与约束”。如果父母完全不设界限，任凭孩子随心所欲，对孩子的长远心智发育极其不利；然而，倘若每分每秒都施加严苛的条条框框，则会彻底压抑并损伤孩子的心理系统，甚至造成创伤。皮卡德博士强调，优秀的领导力与卓越的育儿艺术如出一辙，都是为能量提供一个具有适度张力的结构支架。一个团队如果每年只重复旧有目标，所有人都会陷入索然无味的倦怠；但如果目标设定为业绩翻倍，这种明确的挑战便化作了促使能量加速突破的“电阻”。人类天生热爱挑战与探索——深入未知深海寻找奇异生物、深入亚马逊雨林寻觅罕见昆虫、甚至飞向浩瀚太空——本质上都是好奇心驱使大脑去寻找可以与之碰撞的阻力面；一旦失去阻抗，生命便失去了追寻意义的着力点。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 阻力调节与能量系统发展模型 accDescr: 展示在育儿与领导力中，过低、过高以及适度阻力对能量流动和系统成长所产生的不同结果。 subgraph ResistanceInput["阻力与约束输入"] Zero["缺乏边界 / 无约束"] Excess["过度打压 / 持续限制"] Optimal["恰当挑战 / 结构化约束"] end subgraph SystemOutcome["能量与系统状态"] direction TB Chaos["失序与发育停滞<br/>（缺乏方向，无聊倦怠）"] Damage["系统创伤与萎缩<br/>（能量受损，压抑崩溃）"] Growth["系统成长与突破<br/>（好奇心激发，潜能释放）"] end Zero --> Chaos Excess --> Damage Optimal --> Growth ``` --- ### [01:41:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6114s) 有意义的目标如同能量磁铁 斯蒂芬提出了一个生动的隐喻：一个真正崇高而有意义的目标，在本质上扮演着“能量磁铁”的角色。就像人类奔赴月球的探索历程一样，月球作为一个宏伟的目标，将无数人力、心血与科研能量牢牢吸引过去，最终将不可思议的构想变为现实。在企业管理和个人生活中亦是如此——领导者若能确立一个深具意义的愿景，自然会吸引优秀的个体和磅礴的能量向其汇聚；反之，平庸无趣的目标则无法唤起任何能量共鸣。皮卡德博士赞同这一哲学视角，并补充道，人类本身就是动态的能量演进过程，身为父母不仅要通过食物从物质层面滋养下一代，更需要悉心呵护并激发其内在的好奇心与自我蜕变能力。 --- ### [01:42:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6155s) 拥有人生目标感如何重塑线粒体功能 斯蒂芬提到一项基于逝者大脑样本的震撼研究：生前拥有强烈人生目标感的人，其大脑中的线粒体往往表现出更高的运转效率。皮卡德博士详细拆解了这项在芝加哥开展的长期纵向研究：参与者在生前每年都会前往医院接受神经心理学家的详细评估，测试记忆力、认知功能，并填写关于生活目标感、与他人的联结深度、自我超越感以及对未来的乐观程度等量表。生命旅程难免经历波折起伏，研究团队持续追踪这些心理动态，并在受试者离世后，解剖并提取其大脑背外侧前额叶皮层（DLPFC）的线粒体进行生化分析——该区域负责人类的主动推理、高级认知与执行功能。 研究得出的明确结论是：生前报告拥有更强目标感与生命意义感的人群，其大脑线粒体具备更卓越的能量转换容量。用物理术语来说，就是其细胞能量流转中的内部“阻抗”（resistance）显著更低。这一发现引发了极具启发性的双向探讨：究竟是充沛的目标感优化了大脑线粒体，使其能量流动更加顺畅；还是线粒体天生高转化率的生理状态赋予了个体更乐观充实的生命视角？皮卡德博士指出，动物实验已经明确证实了这种“双向因果关系”的存在： - **自上而下的影响（心智改变线粒体）：** 当小鼠长期暴露于慢性压力或社会挫败（social defeat）等应激环境中时，其大脑内部的线粒体结构与功能会遭受破坏。 - **自下而上的影响（线粒体改变心智与行为）：** 研究人员通过对小鼠脑部进行微量药物注射，特异性激活或抑制其线粒体活性、调高或调低细胞能量阻抗，结果小鼠的焦虑程度、社交倾向以及在群体中的社会支配地位（dominance）立刻随之发生戏剧性改变。 这表明“心理感受”与“细胞能量器”之间存在严密的实时双向反馈机制。如果一个人在生活中长期丧失目标感，线粒体效率便会随之退化；而当线粒体陷入能量枯竭与高阻抗状态时，首当其冲的生理表征通常是无从缓解的疲惫感（fatigue）。随后，系统性能量匮乏会逐步演变为倦怠（burnout）、对未来的悲观厌倦，并最终滑向抑郁症的临床表现。无论医学上采用何种诊断标签，其底层本质都是个体感知生命乐趣、意义感与能量流动能力的全面衰退。 ### [01:45:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6356s) 被审判的心理压力：实验室中的能量损耗模拟 斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）提到，他在采访抑郁症和成瘾领域的专家时，曾听《失窃的联系》（*Lost Connections*）作者约翰·哈里（Johann Hari）谈到一个现象：在某些文化传统中，治疗抑郁症状的最有效处方并非药物，而是为患者赋予人生的目标与意义。马丁·皮卡德（Martin Picard）博士对此深表赞同，他推测所谓抑郁症在很大程度上是机体内部“协调性（coherence）的丧失”。当人陷入孤立无援的境地时，能量代谢系统会发生剧烈震荡。为了量化心理压力对人体能量系统的直接影响，皮卡德团队在实验室开展了一项极具戏剧性的应激测试：当一个人感到自己被孤立并遭受外部严苛审判时，身体在能量层面究竟会发生什么？ 机体在能量传导不畅或线粒体遇到阻滞时，会释放出一种反映“能量摩擦/阻力”的血液生物标志物。这种蛋白质在癌症、阿尔茨海默病、糖尿病（胰岛素抵抗）、高血压及心脏病等病理状态下均显著升高，堪称生物体整体能量效率低下与衰竭的预警灯。实验中，受试者手臂被置入静脉输液管以便实时采集血样。前30分钟，研究人员让他们在舒适的环境中彻底放松，此时皮质醇水平平稳回落，心率与血压双双下降。然而，平静很快被打破——研究协调员凯瑟琳（Catherine）面无表情地推门而入，冷冷地宣布：“现在你将接受审判。” 受试者被告知一段虚构的紧急情境：他们在商场试戴了一条围巾，却被保安当场指控为入店行窃，现在必须立刻走上法庭接受法官审问，并决定该保安是否该被解雇。受试者仅有2分钟时间来构思一段长达3分钟的法庭自辩陈词。监控室的屏幕上，研究人员实时目睹着受试者因极度焦虑而骤变的心率与血压——在毫无剧烈体力消耗的前提下，仅仅是面临“自我意象（ego）可能被击碎”的心智压力，就瞬间激活了巨大的代谢消耗。随后，一台摄像机正对着他们进行模拟录像，一位身穿白大褂的老年男性主考官站在距离他们仅6英尺（约1.8米）的地方，眼神毫无波澜地直视受试者的双眼，下达冰冷的指令：“开始说吧。”监测数据显示，哪怕身体并未挪动半步，这种遭受社会评价与自尊威胁的纯粹心理应激，便足以让血液中的能量应激标志物大幅飙升。 --- ### [01:48:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6533s) GDF-15：向大脑拉响警报的“能量阻力细胞因子” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 心理压力触发 GDF-15 信号通路的机制 accDescr: 展示心理应激如何引起外周组织产生 GDF-15，随后刺激脑干最后区，最终诱发病态行为与内脏脂肪堆积的级联反应。 subgraph StressInput ["应激刺激"] A["心理审判与自尊威胁"] --> B["线粒体能量摩擦与阻力增加"] end subgraph PeripheralRelease ["外周信号释放"] B --> C["外周器官合成并释放 GDF-15<br/>(除大脑外的各组织均可分泌)"] end subgraph BrainstemResponse ["脑干感知"] C --> D["血液循环靶向脑干最后区<br/>(Area Postrema 恶心与呕吐中枢)"] D --> E{"大脑做出危机应对决策"} end subgraph DualConsequences ["双重代偿效应"] E -->|"策略 1：储存能量"| F["病态行为 (Sickness Behavior)<br/>丧失动力、抑郁情绪、放弃运动"] E -->|"策略 2：动员储备"| G["大量释放血糖与血脂"] G --> H["未消耗能量异位沉积<br/>形成内脏脂肪 (腹部脂肪)"] end ``` 这种因线粒体能量摩擦而产生的关键应激蛋白被称为 **GDF-15**（生长分化因子15，Growth Differentiation Factor 15）。皮卡德博士解释道，生理学信号的传递必须依赖“信号”与“受体”两端，而 GDF-15 拥有一种极其特殊的空间分布格局：人体内除大脑之外的几乎所有外周器官（肝、肾、肌肉、免疫细胞等）在能量吃紧时均能合成并释放 GDF-15；然而，感知 GDF-15 的受体在全身上下仅存在于一个部位——**大脑的脑干最后区（area postrema）**，即掌管恶心与呕吐反射的生存中枢。 当个体遭遇强烈的外界评判与心理重压时，外周器官因线粒体受阻将 GDF-15 泵入血液，后者随血流上行锚定在脑干受体上。大脑接收到这一信号后，会直接将其解读为：“外周某处正在耗尽能量，机体陷入了严重危机。”这种机制与感染时免疫细胞分泌细胞因子（cytokines）引发的反应如出一辙，进而促使大脑启动双重自救程序： 1. **强制节能（节能行为与抑郁心境）**：大脑会下意识剥夺机体的活动动机，诱发所谓的“病态行为（sickness behavior）”。在动物实验中，向健康动物体内注射 GDF-15 后，它们会立刻蜷缩成一团、不吃不动。人体则表现为意志消沉、动机全无、丧失健身欲望，整个人陷入抑郁状态。 2. **紧急动员燃料（异位脂肪堆积）**：大脑误以为外周细胞正因能量短缺而濒临死亡，随即下令向血液中倾倒大量葡萄糖与游离脂肪酸以展开救援。然而，在现代坐姿心理应激中，肌肉并未进行任何高强度收缩，这些被过度调动的游离燃料无处可用，最终只能以异位脂肪（ectopic fat）的形式沉积在不该储存的地方，直接转化为腹部内脏脂肪（visceral fat）。 --- ### [01:51:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6687s) 慢性升高的代价与 UK Biobank 追踪：疾病、死亡率与能量耗竭 当这种由心理应激或器官亚健康引发的 GDF-15 释放从偶发的急性代偿演变为慢性持续状态时，灾难性的病理连锁反应便开始显现。皮卡德博士援引了来自英国生物样本库（UK Biobank）的一项长达 14 年的大规模前瞻性追踪研究：研究人员采集并测定了大量参与者基线血样中的 GDF-15 水平，将高浓度人群与低浓度人群进行了为期十余年的健康随访。 数据清晰地表明，体内维持高水平 GDF-15 的人群面临着全方位的健康崩溃风险： - **精神疾病发病率骤增**：包括重度抑郁症、双相情感障碍（bipolar disorder）以及精神分裂症（schizophrenia）在内的多种神经精神疾病风险显著上升。 - **心血管代谢疾病高发**：慢性升高的能量应激加速了高血压和心血管疾病的病理进程。 - **全因死亡率升高**：在随访周期内，GDF-15 水平最高的人群死亡风险显著高于对照组，该蛋白因此成为医学上极具权威性的不良预后指标（prognostic indicator）。 临床与日常观察还发现，GDF-15 偏高的人在日常行为上有非常典型的外在特征：他们极度厌恶走楼梯，毫无出门散步或健身的意愿，甚至本能地抗拒参与社交聚会。这不是单纯的“意志力薄弱”或“懒惰”，而是大脑在持续接收到外周组织传递的“能量告急”生化信号后，从神经回路底层强制切断了机体探索外界与输出体力的冲动。 --- ### [01:53:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6783s) 如何降低 GDF-15：睡眠的重置作用与动态波动的生命节律 面对这一令听众深感焦虑的机制，巴特利特追问：“究竟该如何阻止 GDF-15 这种应激细胞因子频繁在血液中泛滥并劫持大脑？”皮卡德博士半开玩笑地回应道：“花点时间去真实地感受自我。冥想。”巴特利特随即笑着打趣：“该死，我未婚妻一直劝我冥想，看来她说得完全没错！” 皮卡德随后从能量代谢的本质切入，给出了更深层的生理学解释：初步科研证据显示，GDF-15 的血液浓度在一天清醒的过程中会伴随各种琐事与压力自然攀升，而**睡眠的核心生理功能之一，正是为了重置并降低机体内部的能量阻力**。 皮卡德指出，健康的本质绝非寻找某个绝对固定、理想不变的超低阻力点，生命并不是一条僵死的直线；真正的生命力在于**阻力周期性上升与下降的动态韵律**——白天经历刺激、阻力升高，夜间通过深层睡眠和放松消除阻力、回归稳态，周而复始。除了规律睡眠和心理调适外，避免极端的情感崩溃、戒除暴饮暴食、防止过度饥饿以及抑制氧化应激等健康生活方式，都是维持线粒体顺畅运转、防止 GDF-15 异常蓄积的关键基石。 ### [01:54:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6842s) 回归进化常识：为何我们明知该怎么做却无法践行 对话从现代生活与远古演化方式的对比展开。主持人提到，拥有好生活以及不让自己每天被压力压垮的法则其实并不复杂，根本不是什么高深科学：走出户外亲近自然、多与人及朋友面对面联结、放下屏幕、吃从地里长出来的或有腿能奔跑的天然食物。Dr. Martin Picard 深表赞同，指出生活方式若能契合人类的演化模式——不暴饮暴食、维系真实的人际连接——本就是健康基石。 然而最核心的问题在于：“每个人都懂这些道理，但为什么大家就是做不到？”Dr. Martin Picard 分析，症结在于现代人对自身存在一种深刻的误解——把人体当成了“分子机械”或汽车。如果人只是一台机器，逻辑便成了“只要加更多燃料，我就会运转得更好”。于是人们在疲惫无力时拼命吃东西补充能量，结果却并未好转，反而感到更加无力与挫败。人们渴望获得力量、获取知识，想要找到切实可行的行动指南，以便激发潜能、成为最好的自己。 --- ### [01:55:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=6909s) 补剂与抗衰分子的科学真相：亚甲蓝、NAD+ 与尿石素 A 主持人透露，他在录制前查阅了 Dr. Martin Picard 过往采访的评论区，发现约 10% 的高频留言都在询问营养补剂。生物黑客圈对亚甲蓝（Methylene Blue）、尿石素 A（Urolithin A）和 NAD+ 促剂等化合物趋之若鹜，受众极想知道这些补剂到底是有用的捷径、治标的创可贴，还是有扎实的临床共识。Dr. Martin Picard 直言，他不倾向于推荐补剂，因为一旦寄希望于“神奇药丸”去解决复杂的身体感受，人们就会放弃对自己身心状态的觉察。针对常见的三种化合物，他从细胞生物学角度逐一拆解： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 常见线粒体补剂的作用机制对比 accDescr: 图表展示了亚甲蓝、NAD+ 和尿石素 A 在线粒体不同能量及质控节点中的生化作用路径。 subgraph Inputs["补剂介入"] MB["亚甲蓝 (Methylene Blue)"] NAD["NAD+ 前体 / 注射"] UA["尿石素 A (Urolithin A)"] end subgraph Mechanisms["细胞及线粒体作用机制"] E1["提供额外电子<br/>减轻电子传递阻力"] E2["作为关键电子载体<br/>运送食物电子至 ETC"] MP["靶向衰老线粒体<br/>加速线粒体自噬 (Mitophagy)"] end subgraph Outcomes["生理表现与效果"] R1["可能缓解线粒体能量阻抗"] R2["减轻系统性炎症<br/>改善部分人群精力感知"] R3["促进优质线粒体新生<br/>改善肌肉耐力"] end MB --> E1 --> R1 NAD --> E2 --> R2 UA --> MP --> R3 ``` - **亚甲蓝（Methylene Blue）**：生物学机制上似乎能够向线粒体提供电子，可能有助于缓解线粒体内部的能量阻抗，但其宣传的各种全能功效仍缺乏完整解释。 - **NAD+**：是目前降低炎症反应证据最充分的干预分子之一。它作为关键的电子载体，负责将食物中的电子运送至电子传递链（ETC），以低阻力方式驱动能量流动。如果体内 NAD 耗尽，代谢回路的电子流动阻力就会激增。尽管绝大多数健康人群并不缺乏 NAD+，额外补充未必有效，但部分线粒体疾病患者和某些健康人群在静脉注射（IV）或口服前体后，确实报告疲劳感减轻、精力更充沛（直接口服 NAD+ 生物利用度极低，因而多采用前体口服或静脉滴注）。 - **尿石素 A（Urolithin A）**：主要作用是加速不良线粒体的降解。一个正常细胞含有上千个线粒体，衰老和功能低下的线粒体通常在断食或剧烈运动等压力下被识别并清除（即线粒体自噬，Mitophagy）。尿石素 A 能够刺激并加速这一自噬过程，倒逼细胞合成更多健康的新线粒体。 面对主持人引用的《JAMA Network Open》（2022年）针对 65 至 90 岁老年人进行的为期 4 个月双盲安慰剂对照试验（结果显示服用尿石素 A 组在肌肉耐力和减少线粒体低效生物标志物方面具有统计学显著改善），Dr. Martin Picard 依然保持审慎。他坦言自己不吃任何此类补剂。几十年来，抗衰圈从辅酶 Q10（CoQ10）、超量抗氧化剂/浆果到 NAD+ 经历了一轮又一轮炒作，后来科学界发现过量摄入外源性抗氧化剂反而会破坏人体正常的氧化还原信号传递与适应机制。线粒体承担着数十种生理功能，“线粒体功能障碍”一词本身就被商业化严重泛化了。相比药企推销的潮流产品，他更愿意相信人体经过漫长演化沉淀下来的内在智慧。 --- ### [02:00:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7222s) 信任身体的自愈智慧与环境疗愈力 当被问及“相信身体的智慧”在现实中到底意味着什么时，Dr. Martin Picard 阐述了自己的生命哲学：人就是流动于躯体之中的能量本身，而人体本身就是大自然的一部分。在整个动物界和生命界中，生命体拥有一个最根本的特质——自我疗愈（healing）。然而现代生物医学极度侧重于疾病的研究、病理探究以及分子靶点的剖析，几乎没有建立起一门专门研究“自愈过程”的系统科学。 健康的真正根基在于持续不断的自愈与动态修复：修复受损的 DNA、吞噬淘汰衰老的线粒体并合成新线粒体。所谓“疗愈”（heal），词源本质就是“重新恢复完整”（to become whole again）。 主持人提出反思：如果我们整天身处无法接触自然光线的现代“暗黑地下掩体”式办公环境，身体内源性自愈机制是否会失效，以至于必须依赖维生素 D 等补剂？Dr. Martin Picard 回应，现代人确实常处于次优环境，但身体依然在顽强运转。大量严谨研究表明了自然环境对人体的切实影响： - 医院病房只要摆放一盆绿色植物，病人的康复速度就会明显加快。 - 能透过窗户看到自然光和户外绿植景观的住院患者，其术后恢复与病情好转表现显著优于封闭无窗病房的患者。 - 森林暴露（如森林浴）究竟是通过极其细微的氧气浓度差异、植物分泌的植物抗毒素（Phytochemicals），抑或是仅仅因为人眼捕捉到了绿色自然景观与声音，科学上尚未完全厘清，但自然对生命系统能量流通与自愈的促进作用是确凿无疑的。 ### [02:02:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7346s) 赞助插播：红光面罩的日常使用与健康共识 在探讨大自然对机体自我修复的作用之余，史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）戴上了一款 Bon Charge 红光面罩，引得皮卡德博士（Dr. Martin Picard）惊讶地喊出“哇，这都戴在脸上了”。巴特利特解释说，这是一款经过专业级设计的无创便携设备，自己已经坚持每天戴着它坐在椅子上照 15 到 20 分钟。他打趣道，红光面罩不仅能刺激胶原蛋白生成、改善细纹与瑕疵、提亮肤色，还能让自己在录播客时看起来气色更好，从而吸引更多听众。 巴特利特提到，在采访过众多全球顶尖健康专家之后，有些疗法他依然持怀疑态度，但红光疗法是极少数几乎所有到访嘉宾都一致认可其真实有效的干预手段之一。该品牌提供全球免费速递、退换保障、1 年质保，并支持 HSA 与 FSA 免税账户支付（最高可省 40% 的税费支出），使用专属链接还可享全场八折优惠。借由这一赞助话题，巴特利特顺势将讨论引向听众最为关切的核心技术问题：红光疗法究竟是如何从细胞层面支持线粒体运转的？ --- ### [02:03:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7406s) 红光疗法的细胞机制：线粒体作为光能接收的“生物天线” 皮卡德博士指出，红光疗法当下已经蔚然成风，市面上涌现出数百种不同形态的设备，涵盖红光头盔、发带乃至红光生发梳。他分享了一个身边的真实案例：一位朋友的父亲患有早期认知功能障碍（轻度认知障碍/预痴呆），目前正参与一项科研试验，每天都需要佩戴特制的红光头盔。这项疗法底层的核心物理学逻辑在于——光本身就是能量，而能量代表着驱动系统发生改变的潜在能力。 红光尤其是人眼不可见的长波近红外光（Infrared），具备极强的组织穿透力。它能够毫无阻碍地穿透毛发、头皮和坚硬的颅骨，直达大脑皮层神经元，并在深层细胞内直接改变代谢节奏。光子要在生物系统内起效，机体必须具备能够与特定波长发生共振的受体。在线粒体内部，电子沿着呼吸链传递并最终与氧气结合生成“代谢水”（Metabolic Water）的关键节点上，存在一个核心蛋白复合体——细胞色素c氧化酶（Cytochrome c Oxidase）。这个酶恰恰充当了捕获红光光子的“细胞天线”，通过吸收光能加速电子流动与能量转化。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 红光作用于线粒体的生化路径 accDescr: 展示红外光穿透人体组织并被细胞色素c氧化酶吸收，促进能量转化的全过程。 subgraph LightPenetration ["光波穿透"] A["红光 / 近红外光 (Photons)"] --> B["穿透皮肤、颅骨与深层组织"] end subgraph MitochondrialAbsorption ["线粒体光共振"] B --> C["细胞天线：细胞色素c氧化酶<br/>(Cytochrome c Oxidase)"] C --> D["加速呼吸链电子流动<br/>与代谢水生成"] end subgraph EnergyOutcome ["代谢响应"] D --> E["提升线粒体呼吸效率<br/>与能量转化效率"] end ``` 巴特利特随后用通俗的语言进行了总结：这意味着只要把红光靠近皮肤，即便不发生直接物理接触，光子也能注入细胞内的线粒体，助其更高效地工作。面对巴特利特“是否该每天清晨醒来都照一照红光”的疑问，皮卡德博士表达了审慎态度。他认为，生命机体是一个精巧维持动态平衡的系统，线粒体产能、基因表达与组织细胞协同如同一场精密的“能量舞蹈”；人为过度使用外源刺激，往往会干扰甚至打破这种天生的动态秩序，这也正是他对长期依赖补剂持保留态度的根本原因。 --- ### [02:06:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7562s) 红光如何平抑血糖峰值：能量流动与线粒体代谢实证 谈及红光对系统代谢的调节，皮卡德博士重点引用了一项近期发表的高质量临床试验。人体血液中的葡萄糖浓度至关重要，血糖过高会在神经细胞及大脑中造成严重的“能量阻力”与摩擦损耗，加速机体衰老与组织受损。在健康生理状态下，无论是因为进食高碳水食物还是因心理压力导致的血糖骤升，机体都会分泌足量胰岛素将多余血糖导入肌肉与脂肪细胞，以维持正常的血糖稳态（Normoglycemia）。 这项研究设计极为巧妙：研究人员让受试者摄入大剂量葡萄糖，同时在其后背照射红光，并通过呼吸面罩实时检测受试者吸入的氧气与呼出的二氧化碳比例，以此直接监测线粒体的即时能量代谢率。实验结果令人惊叹： - 照射红光的受试者，其餐后血糖激增的峰值显著低于对照组。 - 呼吸代谢监测显示，受试者的线粒体代谢率在红光照射下有所提升，呼吸链中的电子流动明显加快。 - 这表明，原本滞留在血液中的高浓度葡萄糖电子，在红光催化下被线粒体更顺畅、更迅速地吸收并消耗掉了。 皮卡德博士坦言，尽管科学界目前尚未完全拆解线粒体内部光能调节的每一步分子细节，但这有力地证明了人体是一个开放的能量系统。不论是光线、电磁场，还是周围其他人类所带来的能量波动，都在每时每刻无形地与我们的微观细胞代谢发生着交互共鸣。 --- ### [02:08:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7711s) 双相剂量效应：红光过量引发的氧化应激与线粒体关闭 巴特利特对“红光照射过量反而会损害细胞”这一观点感到震惊，并坦白自己过去有时会戴着红光面罩看书，一戴就是一两个小时。尽管他自身没有察觉到明显不适，但他援引了一篇发表于 2009 年的基础研究指出：红光疗法严格遵循生物学上的“钟形曲线”（Bell Curve，即双相剂量效应模型）。 - **低至中等剂量**：温和激活线粒体，提升三磷酸腺苷（ATP）合成，并产生微量且有益的活性氧（ROS），这种轻度应激能够像信号弹一样触发细胞的内源性自我修复。 - **超大过量剂量**：光子过载会导致线粒体喷射出海量活性氧（ROS），剧烈的氧化应激彻底击溃细胞的抗氧化防御防线，导致线粒体呼吸链全面关停，最终诱发细胞凋亡（Apoptosis），从原本的“修复疗法”恶化为“细胞破坏”。 皮卡德博士对此深表认同，并指出这种非线性的倒“U”形响应在整个生物生理学中无处不在，最直观的类比就是体育锻炼： - 经过良好训练的运动员进行 30 分钟、1 小时乃至 2 小时的剧烈运动，之后配合 23 小时的充分休息，机体会通过超量补偿变得更为强悍高效，给人一种“精力更加充沛”的流动感。 - 但如果连续高强度运动 8 小时，机体系统就会彻底崩溃并遭受器质性损伤。 皮卡德博士总结道，自然演化早已在人类的身心系统中设定好了最佳的能量平衡平衡点（Sweet Spot）。然而在当今这个充斥着各种外界噪音与干预手段的环境里，现代人往往难以觉察机体本身的细微信号，唯有学会向内感知并与身体的内在智慧保持同频，才能真正规避过度干预带来的反噬。 ### [02:10:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7837s) 屏息实验：亲身体验细胞能量受阻的感觉 Martin Picard 博士提议用一个简单的现场身体练习，来生动展示“倾听身体能量”到底意味着什么。在征得主持人同意后，他邀请现场以及屏幕前非驾驶状态的听众闭上眼睛。Picard 博士引导大家感受地心引力将身体沉入椅子的触感，随后深吸一口气，将肺部的空气完全呼尽，并在空腹、排空肺部气体的状态下闭气，能坚持多久就坚持多久。在此期间，受试者需要高度专注于体内浮现出的细微感觉——无论是在腹部、胸腔、颈部还是脑海中。随着憋气时间的延长，不适感与内在的生理冲动急剧飙升，直到忍耐极限后猛烈吸气。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 屏息导致线粒体能量阻滞的生理机制 accDescr: 展示从屏息缺氧到线粒体电子流回流并引发不适感的级联反应 subgraph 缺氧与代谢变化 A["停止呼吸（排空肺部闭气）"] --> B["氧气无法供应至细胞"] C["线粒体持续消耗氧气并产生二氧化碳"] --> D["二氧化碳（CO2）在体内累积"] end subgraph 线粒体能量危机 B & D --> E["线粒体内部电子流无法转移至氧气"] E --> F["电子发生回流与堆积"] F --> G["能量阻抗急剧飙升（产生氧化应激）"] end subgraph 主观体验与心理表征 G --> H["强烈的窒息感与体内震颤"] H --> I["厌恶感与恐慌感（濒死警报）"] end ``` 吸气放松后，主持人描述了自己的震撼体验：闭气期间，他感到体内有像波浪一样的震颤与能量涌动，平时不易察觉的心跳变得无比清晰，而到了濒临极限时，便产生了剧烈的空气饥渴与窒息感。Picard 博士解释，人类在进化中被塑造得对缺氧极度厌恶，因为线粒体每分每秒都需要氧气来维持电子流运转；一旦没有氧气，线粒体内的电子无处可去，产生极高的“能量阻抗（energy resistance）”，从而触发身体本能的强烈痛苦。 ### [02:13:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=7998s) 心脏病发作、乳酸与代谢精神病学 Picard 博士指出，能量阻抗最典型的极端医学案例便是心肌梗死（心绞痛/心脏病发作）。他分享了自己父亲几年前经历心肌梗死的经历：父亲在半夜惊醒，胸口宛如被四百磅的重物死死压住，承受了平生未见的剧痛。这种剧痛的实质，是血栓堵塞导致血液无法向心肌的线粒体输送氧气，原本顺畅流向氧气的电子无法前行而发生逆流，诱发大量氧化应激并损伤心脏。这种细胞层面的能量停滞，在宏观上表现为极其痛苦和可怕的厌恶体验。 Picard 博士由此引申出一个深刻的视角：如果一个人每天早晨醒来，身体都带着这种缺氧窒息感的 5% 到 10%，那便极其接近许多精神疾病患者的日常真实感受。数据证实，仅仅向健康人体内注射代表能量压力的代谢信号——乳酸（lactate），就足以直接诱发急性惊恐发作（panic attack）；在创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）患者身上，单单注射乳酸甚至能重新唤醒其创伤记忆。这表明，许多精神症状并非纯粹源于脑内神经递质失衡，而是身体向大脑发出了线粒体无法承受能量流动的求救警报。新兴的“代谢精神病学（metabolic psychiatry）”正是建立在这一认知之上，哈佛大学及麦克莱恩医院（McLean Hospital）的研究也直接测得了精神疾病患者大脑中升高的能量阻抗、异常乳酸水平以及线粒体压力标志物 GDF-15。 - **能量流滞留与氧化应激**：正常状态下电子从食物顺畅流向氧气；缺氧时电子流阻滞并逆流，直接导致细胞损伤与剧烈疼痛。 - **乳酸的心理诱发效应**：乳酸作为线粒体超负荷的生化信号，注入外周血液即可“欺骗”大脑引发恐慌与创伤回忆。 - **精神疾病的代谢本质**：焦虑、高度警觉与抑郁等慢性痛苦，很可能是大脑和身体长期处于高能量阻抗状态下的投射。 ### [02:16:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8182s) 生酮疗法与“平均值科学”的局限性 谈及缓解这种内在能量危机的干预手段时，Picard 博士坦言，虽然改变生活境遇是最根本的办法，但对大多数人而言极难做到；运动同样十分有效，可许多病患在重度抑郁或疲劳下根本没有运动的体能。在此背景下，医疗级生酮饮食（ketogenic diet）展现出了惊人的潜力。Picard 博士接触过多位因分裂情感性障碍、双相情感障碍或重度抑郁症而生活崩溃的患者，他们在常规精神类药物（抗抑郁药、抗精神病药）无效且承受严重药物副作用的情况下，通过彻底断糖、转向监测血酮的严格生酮饮食，重新找回了体内的能量流动，生活发生了翻天覆地的转变。 然而生酮饮食并非对所有人都有效，这种个体差异揭示了现代循证医学的一大盲区——“平均值科学（science of averages）”。现行医学的最高黄金标准是随机对照试验（RCT），研究通常招募上千名受试者平均分组（例如 500 人常规饮食、500 人生酮饮食），并在干预数月后计算出整组的平均症状变化并比较均值。这种方法抹杀了每个独立个体的生物学独特性。主持人补充道，过去的很多医学研究甚至长期将女性排除在外，将女性狭隘地视为“体型缩小的男性（little men）”，完全忽视了性别、种族、内脏脂肪分布机制以及基因图谱的深刻差异。单纯依赖由少数群体平均出的数据来推演全体人类的健康指导，往往会忽略个体间最关键的生物学真相。 ### [02:19:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8348s) 临床试验的局限与慢性疲劳综合征的困境 医学界目前依赖的健康指南与药物审批流程存在着根本性的局限：它们几乎完全建立在群体随机对照试验（RCT）的平均值比较上。皮卡德博士指出，一旦剥开临床研究的表面数据，就会发现个体差异极其悬殊——一部分人是“超级反应者”（amazing responders），症状彻底消失甚至痊愈；一部分人毫无反应（非反应者）；甚至还有一部分人的病情反而恶化。 主持人提到了观众互动中最热烈、最迫切的问题：长新冠（Long COVID）、肌痛性脑脊髓炎/慢性疲劳综合征（ME/CFS）以及纤维肌痛（Fibromyalgia）。这些患者群体正承受着巨大的痛苦，却始终得不到确切的答案。常规医学建议通常鼓励患者“通过运动来促进线粒体健康”，但对于这群人而言，运动往往会直接诱发严重的病情崩溃（crash）。当身体的能量预算彻底崩溃时，细胞层面究竟发生了什么？患者又该如何在不造成二次伤害的前提下，安全地修复线粒体？ - **受影响人群规模**：美国约有 300 万至 500 万 ME/CFS 及长新冠患者；英国约有 200 万至 300 万人；全球范围内的患病人数高达 2,000 万至 2,400 万人。 - **生化指标与主观体验的脱节**：患者去医院倾诉“极度疲劳无力”，常规血液化验结果却往往显示一切正常。现行医学对血液生物化学指标、大脑神经机制与患者真实主观能量感受之间的联系缺乏深入理解。 - **医疗体系的边缘化**：由于医生既查不出明确病因，又缺乏有效的治疗手段，这类患者常常在医疗体系中感到被排斥或忽视。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: ME/CFS 与长新冠患者的运动衰竭循环 accDescr: 展示常规运动建议如何在 ME/CFS 患者体内引发能量阻力升高与运动后不适 subgraph Intervention ["常规临床建议"] A["常规建议：运动锻炼"] end subgraph Pathology ["细胞与分子级病理反应"] B["肌肉线粒体能量转换能力低下\n(能量通量受阻)"] C["剧烈推高能量阻力信号\n(炎症因子 / GDF-15 激增)"] end subgraph Outcome ["临床表现"] D["诱发运动后不适 (PEM)\n恶心、衰竭、病情全面崩溃"] end A --> B B --> C C --> D ``` --- ### [02:22:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8552s) 肌肉线粒体缺陷与“夏日恋情”带来的启示 针对慢性疲劳综合征的线粒体研究在近期取得了关键突破。近期发表的一项严谨研究中，科研人员提取了患者股四头肌的肌肉活检样本，直接评估其肌肉线粒体流转能量的能力。结果证实，慢性疲劳综合征患者的线粒体能量转换能力显著低于健康人。当线粒体无法正常维持能量流动时，患者在生理上就根本不具备发力或运动的产能基础。 虽然这种线粒体能量转换受损的确切根源尚不明确，但它与心理生物学的互动却呈现出令人深思的现象。皮卡德博士分享了一位家庭朋友的真实故事：这位女士在二十多岁时曾患上严重的慢性疲劳综合征，每天大部分时间瘫倒在床，连去超市买菜都精疲力竭，完全丧失了工作能力。然而有一年夏天，一位来自夏威夷的朋友来访，两人陷入了一场热烈的恋情。在这段深层的人际连接之后，她的慢性疲劳症状竟然不药而愈，且此后几十年再未复发，重新回归了充满活力的正常生活。 - **运动后不适（PEM, Post-Exertional Malaise）机制**：在正常人体内，运动会适度刺激机体；但在 ME/CFS 患者体内，运动会导致能量阻力与能量摩擦信号（如能量压力标志物 GDF-15 和免疫系统细胞因子）暴增至中枢神经系统，引发类似严重感染时的恶心、虚弱与重度疲劳。 - **疾病诱发诱因的多样性**：慢性疲劳往往始于特定的触发事件，例如某些医疗干预（如免疫接种反应）、病毒或寄生虫感染、霉菌中毒（mold poisoning）等急性打击，导致身体能量系统卡在失衡状态无法自行复原。 --- ### [02:25:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8735s) 希望、社会支持与人际“能量共振”的治愈力 面对这个听起来颇具戏剧性的康复故事，主持人认为其核心价值在于“希望”——即便面临看似无法逾越的生理困境，奇迹与转机仍有可能发生。皮卡德博士对此深表赞同，并指出这与他在遗传性线粒体病患者身上观察到的现象如出一辙。确诊遗传性线粒体缺陷的患者每天都在承受呼吸衰竭般的身体沉重感；一旦他们失去希望，身体机能往往迅速恶化并过早离世。 相反，那些预后最好的患者，尽管线粒体客观上存在基因缺陷，但他们找到了热爱的事物、自我表达的途径，以及最重要的——强大的家庭与社会支持系统。皮卡德博士从物理学和心理生物学角度提出，人与人之间的互动本质上是“能量过程之间的相互作用”。 > “我认为爱就是共振的体验（Love is the experience of resonance）。” 人与人通过声音、眼神、握手等物理接触进行交互，彼此感知对方的能量与兴奋感。当两个能量系统同频共振时，所激发的深层连接能够极大减轻细胞层面的阻力，甚至改写机体的能量代谢状态。 随后主持人顺势将话题切回大众层面的锻炼实践：如果一个人的目标是最大化刺激“线粒体生物合成”（Mitochondrial Biogenesis），究竟何种运动模式才是最佳方案？是二区有氧（Zone 2）、高强度间歇训练（HIIT），还是力量抗阻训练？皮卡德博士总结的核心训练法则其实非常纯粹：任何能够促使你“呼吸显著加深加快”的运动形式，都在对线粒体发出最核心的适应信号。 ### [02:27:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8849s) 找到属于自己的运动强度与“线粒体感知”（Mitoception） 谈及运动对线粒体的刺激时，马丁·皮卡德（Dr. Martin Picard）强调，运动会迫使线粒体更努力地工作，但绝不能过度，特别是对于未经专项训练的普通人。以他自己为例，他坦言自己现在并非高水平运动员，他的日常运动方案是每隔一天慢跑大约 20 分钟——这个强度刚好能让他腾出时间，同时让能量以恰当的节奏在体内顺畅流转。如果让他现在去贸然跑一场全程马拉松，身体必然会受伤。运动的关键在于学会去感知自己的能量极限，皮卡德将这种能力命名为“线粒体感知”（Mitoception），即学会体察自己的线粒体到底能承受多大负荷，并据此制定个性化、可持续的生活与运动节奏。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 线粒体感知决策回路 accDescr: 展示线粒体感知如何通过感知身体能量变化来辅助生活决策的循环机制 subgraph Perception ["能量体察 (Mitoception)"] A["生理与心理刺激<br/>饮食 / 运动 / 人际关系 / 职业"] --> B["内在能量反应<br/>线粒体状态改变"] B --> C["直觉体验<br/>精力充沛 vs 能量被抽空"] end subgraph Decision ["辨别与决策"] C --> D["能量 GPS 导航<br/>是否与个体核心特质同频？"] D --> E["做出真实选择<br/>避免纯理性反噬"] end E -.->|"反馈调整"| A ``` --- ### [02:28:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8890s) 线粒体健康检测与人生的“能量 GPS” 针对观众提出的“线粒体健康是否能像 ATP 血液测试一样进行可靠检测”的问题，皮卡德透露他们目前正致力于此，Routine 团队正在打造一个技术平台，旨在帮助大众真正连接并感知自己的线粒体状态。皮卡德指出，一旦掌握了这种线粒体感知力，人们在面对生酮饮食是否有效、新的人际关系是在滋养还是在“吸干”你的能量、新的工作方向是否适合等重大人生选择时，就能做出清晰的辨别。 皮卡德进一步阐述，人清晨醒来时的身心状态——无论是感到干劲十足还是抗拒现实——都是能量系统的直接反馈。就像史蒂夫·乔布斯（Steve Jobs）那种坚定的直觉判断一样，很多真正重要的决定往往不是单纯靠冷冰冰的理性逻辑做出的；过度依赖纯理性而忽视内在直觉，往往最终会被现实反噬。人的能量系统是衡量当下生活内容是否与个人真实本性相一致的最灵敏仪器，它就像一个内在的“能量 GPS”，通过微细的躯体感受指引人生的前进方向。 - **线粒体感知（Mitoception）的应用领域**： - **饮食干预**：评估诸如生酮饮食等特定方式是否真正提升了细胞活力。 - **人际动态**：辨别亲密关系或社交圈是在赋予能量还是在无形中耗竭精力。 - **职业与目标**：感知职业轨迹是否符合自我内在的真实频率。 --- ### [02:30:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=9014s) 撕心裂肺的失去：失去未出生孩子的至暗时刻 在播客传统的“上一位嘉宾留给下一位嘉宾的问题”环节，面对“你所克服的最艰难的事情是什么？它如何塑造了今天的你？”这一提问，演播室内的气氛骤然凝固。皮卡德深吸了一口气，坦言自己瞬间感受到了体内能量的剧烈下坠，那是种沉重的坠落感（sinking feeling）。他缓缓揭开了大约一年前经历的家庭剧痛：当时他和未婚妻内罗莎（Nerosha）正在满怀期待地等待一个新生命的降临，孕期刚满三个月，他们深情地唤这个尚未出世的胚胎为“新生命”（New Life）。 然而，就在内罗莎从加拿大回来的当晚，剧烈的腹痛毫无征兆地袭来。随后出现出血，紧接着在短短三个月时便出现了急促而不祥的规律宫缩。内罗莎不愿前往医院，最终两人选择在家中面对流产。那一夜充斥着恐惧、血迹与心碎，他们在淋浴间里相拥痛哭，空气中弥漫着令人生畏的死亡气息。悲痛欲绝的皮卡德陷入了愤怒与困惑：“为什么是我？我努力成为一个好人、好伴侣和合格的领导者，尽己所能给世界带来美好，为什么这种灾难会降临在我身上？”他坦承，那一刻自己彻底跌入了受害者心态的深渊。 --- ### [02:33:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=9218s) 慢下来（Slowing Down）：生命的剧痛带来的核心启示 在流产发生两天后，极度痛苦的皮卡德选择坐在桌前，用书写的方式梳理情绪并让能量流淌。他向自己发问：“从如此可怕的经历中，我究竟能学到什么？”一个无比清晰的答案浮现在脑海——“慢下来”（Slowing down）。这个顿悟深深震撼了他。回顾过往，他的人生始终处在惊人的高速推进中：以极短时间拿下博士学位、迅速晋升为教授、飞速组建并扩张科研团队。“雷厉风行”曾是他引以为傲的性格特质，也成就了他的事业，但这种内心深处“一切必须立刻发生”的狂热驱动力，也在无形中伤害了身边的人，让他缺乏对步调较慢者的敏锐与同理心。 这场惨痛的失去宛如一块调高了对比度的画布，瞬间滤掉了无关紧要的琐碎杂念与应酬承诺，让生命中真正核心的事物骤然清晰。学会“慢下来”彻底重塑了皮卡德，使他蜕变成一位更有耐心的倾听者、更具慈悲心的父亲，以及视野更宽广的科学家。他感慨道，人是所有经历与相遇共同塑造成的能量过程，正如这场深入心灵的对谈同样永远改变了他。史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）听闻后眼眶湿润，动情地表达了共鸣与慰藉：全球每年有约 2,000 万人经历流产，但因其夹杂着复杂的羞耻感与悲恸，极少有人公开谈论；正是这场直击能量与生命本质的对话，彻底颠覆并重塑了所有人看待生命与能量的方式。 - **流产与社会认知**：全球每年发生约 20,000,000 起自然流产事件，但在社会语境中长期被情绪裹挟并保持沉默。 - **“慢下来”的重塑价值**： - 提升了对不同节奏他人的包容度与同理心。 - 增强了家庭关系中的倾听与陪伴质量。 - 为科学研究与生命体察带来了更加深沉的洞察力。 ### [02:37:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=9420s) 能量视角的哲学转变与商业启示 主持人坦言，大众往往容易将马丁·皮卡德博士（Dr. Martin Picard）单纯归类为一名研究线粒体的生物医学科学家，但他的研究本质上要深刻得多，甚至带有强烈的哲学意味。在探讨生命本质时，“能量就是一切”（energy is everything）。主持人感慨，这次对话彻底颠覆并重塑了他对生活的思考方式，这种触动在播客对话中极为罕见。他直言自己绝不是在刻意恭维客套（"I don't kiss people's asses like this"），而是思维确实受到了强烈的震动与启迪。 这种思维范式的转变甚至奇妙地延伸到了商业认知领域。皮卡德博士指出，商业本质上就是人类自身及其能量体系的向外延伸，世间万事万物皆是如此。主持人由衷反思了自己过往如何对待能量，并领悟到未来应当如何更审慎地保护、节约并将有限的能量定向聚焦于真正重要的目标。 - 主持人强调，很少有一场对话能瞬间在内心引发如此巨大的认知转变，皮卡德博士的真诚与智慧为理解生理健康与人生意义提供了全新的能量透镜。 - 一切人类组织形式与商业活动，归根结底都是能量转化、流动与分配的投影。 ### [02:37:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=9473s) 探索线索与未来指引：获取能量科学研究 当被问及观众如果想将这份触动转化为行动、深入了解他的工作应该去往何处时，皮卡德博士建议大家访问个人官方网站 `martinpicard.energy`。该平台汇集了他即将出版的新书《能量》（*Energy*）的相关资讯、最新科研成果与学术机构动态，并以动态演示和核心能量原则的形式，系统性拆解当天节目中所探讨的科学理念。在互致谢意后，主持人亦按照惯例向观众介绍了依托平台算法匹配的后续推荐内容，为整期深度对话画上了圆满句号。 - **官方资源入口**：访问 `martinpicard.energy` 可查阅其著作资讯、科学动画、学术论文以及线粒体心理生物学研究机构的最新动态。 - **核心理念归宿**：将抽象的线粒体生物学转化为普通人可操作的“核心能量原则”，帮助公众重新审视慢性压力、身心健康与衰老逆转的微观机制。 ## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=0s) The proper allocation of energy — Martin Picard > [03:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=180s) We are energy — Martin Picard > [10:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=622s) You are the energy that's flowing through this body — Martin Picard > [12:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=767s) life is resistance — Martin Picard > [38:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2311s) incontrovertible evidence — Martin Picard > [42:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=2567s) Nothing is free in biology — Martin Picard > [51:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3103s) 摄入更多食物绝不会让你拥有更多可用能量，也不可能延缓衰老 — Martin Picard > [54:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=3271s) 你感觉自己拥有更多能量，仅仅是因为能量在这具身体里的流动变得更加通畅与高效了。 — Martin Picard > [02:25:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=8735s) Love is the experience of resonance — Dr. Martin Picard > [02:37:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w&t=9420s) I don't kiss people's asses like this — Steven Bartlett ## Mentioned Martin Picard, Steven Bartlett, Columbia University, Newcastle upon Tyne University, Gabriel, Natalia, Jon "Bones" Jones, Gable Steveson, Cometeer, John Harvey Kellogg, Oura Ring, The Diary Of A CEO, Kevin O'Leary, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Jony Ive, Bud Tribble, Andy Hertzfeld, Bill Gates, Johann Hari, UK Biobank, JAMA Network Open, Bon Charge, Routine, McLean Hospital, Harvard University, GDF-15, Methylene Blue, Urolithin A, NAD+, Cytochrome c Oxidase ## Video description The Mitochondria Scientist Dr Martin Picard reveals why stress is secretly burning 60% of your daily energy, the science behind reversing gray hair, and why your mitochondria - not your genes - determine how fast you age! Dr Martin Picard is a Professor of Behavioral Medicine and Director of the Mitochondrial Psychobiology Group, who specialises in how stress, emotions and lived experiences affect your mitochondria. He recently published the world's first map of mitochondria in the human brain and is also the author of the upcoming book, ‘Energy’. He explains: ◼️ Why depression is really an energy problem, not just in your head ◼️ Why eating more food won't give you more energy, and what actually will ◼️ How training for a marathon can double the mitochondria in your muscles ◼️ Why people with a strong sense of purpose have more powerful mitochondria ◼️ Why cancer cells abandon their mitochondria, and what it means for treating them 00:00 Intro 03:36 Why Everyone Is Talking About Energy Right Now 04:35 Why I Dedicated My Life to Studying Mitochondria 05:51 The Fascination With Mitochondria—and What a PhD in Them Really Means 08:46 How Understanding Energy Can Help You Feel Better Every Day 10:03 Where You Should Start If You Want More Energy 14:26 Why Mitochondria Are the Foundation of Your Health 16:42 How Mitochondria Made Complex Human Life Possible 19:04 What Insulin Resistance Reveals About Your Body's Energy System 20:36 How Mitochondria Influence Cancer Risk 23:17 What Really Causes the Warburg Effect? 24:43 Why Diabetes Raises Your Risk of Cancer 26:10 The Real Reason Smoking Causes Cancer 31:04 Why Hair Turns Gray—and Whether It Can Be Reversed 39:57 What Cortisol Is Really Doing to Your Cells 42:47 Does a More Resilient Mind Save Cellular Energy? 45:20 Acute vs. Chronic Stress: Why the Difference Matters 45:54 Understanding Resistance—and Why It Drains Your Energy 48:18 What Happens Inside Your Body When the First Gray Hair Appears? 51:43 The Real Secret to Healthy Aging 53:37 How to Make Your Body More Energy Efficient 55:34 How Food Changes the Way Your Cells Produce Energy 01:01:02 What the Energy Crisis in Your Cells Means for Alzheimer's Disease 01:05:32 Is Dementia Really "Type 3 Diabetes"? 01:12:07 Why Some Communities Avoid Dementia—and What This Means for Alzheimer's Risk 01:13:54 Ads 01:15:56 How to Eat for Optimal Energy and Health 01:17:27 Why We Overeat Even When We're Not Hungry 01:20:46 Is Breakfast Really the Most Important Meal of the Day? 01:22:43 How to Stop Scattered Energy From Running Your Life 01:30:58 How High Performers Filter Signal From Noise 01:39:52 How Energy Resistance Shows Up in Parenting 01:41:54 Why Meaningful Goals Become Magnets for Your Energy 01:42:35 Does Having a Purpose Improve Mitochondrial Function? 01:46:22 What Being Judged Does to Your Body's Energy System 01:51:07 Why Stress Causes Visceral Fat Gain 01:51:30 What Happens When Chronic Stress Turns Into Disease? 01:53:03 How to Reduce GDF-15—and Why It Matters 01:56:28 Can Supplements Actually Improve Mitochondrial Health? 02:00:23 How to Trust the Wisdom of Your Body 02:02:22 Ads 02:03:26 Can Red Light Therapy Really Support Your Mitochondria? 02:05:12 What You Need to Know Before Trying Red Light Therapy 02:10:33 How to Listen to What Your Energy Is Telling You 02:27:11 The Best Exercise Routine for Healthier Mitochondria 02:28:11 Which Blood Tests Can Reveal Your Mitochondrial Health? 02:30:14 The Personal Loss That Changed Everything Independent Fact Check: https://stevenbartlett.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/DOAC-Dr-Martin-Picard-Independent-Research-Further-Reading.pdf Follow Dr Martin: Website - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/BqY0OhF Substack - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/4aOc0rk Metabolic Psychiatry and Ketogenic Diet - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/GexHJoI X - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/Fs8WGvj Instagram - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/BsNZ7vH You can find out more about Dr Martin’s upcoming book, ‘Energy’, here: https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/5jW5yUA The Diary Of A CEO: ◼ Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼ Buy The Diary Of A CEO book here - https://smarturl.it/DOACbook ◼ The 1% Diary is back - limited time only: https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt ◼ The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards: https://linkly.link/2hm7r ◼ Get email updates - https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt ◼ Follow Steven - https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: KetoneIQ - Visit https://ketone.com/STEVEN for 30% off your subscription order Cometeer - https://cometeer.com/DOAC use code DOAC for $20 off Bon Charge: https://boncharge.com/DOAC for 20% off [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xlmaorRY0w)

[0:00] Martin Picard: The proper allocation of energy [3:00] Martin Picard: We are energy [10:22] Martin Picard: You are the energy that's flowing through this body [12:47] Martin Picard: life is resistance [38:31] Martin Picard: incontrovertible evidence [42:47] Martin Picard: Nothing is free in biology [51:43] Martin Picard: 摄入更多食物绝不会让你拥有更多可用能量，也不可能延缓衰老 [54:31] Martin Picard: 你感觉自己拥有更多能量，仅仅是因为能量在这具身体里的流动变得更加通畅与高效了。 [145:35] Dr. Martin Picard: Love is the experience of resonance [157:00] Steven Bartlett: I don't kiss people's asses like this

[3:36] Dr. Martin Picard: We literally are the energy that's flowing through the body... This expression is an expression of the flow of energy. If there was no energy flowing through your body, through your heart, through your brain, you wouldn't be. [15:59] Dr. Martin Picard: Mitochondria are like a little distributed brain... they're like the intracellular brain. [23:17] Dr. Martin Picard: Cancer cells ditch their mitochondria, they revert back to this ancestral cell... that just cares about itself. [35:32] Dr. Martin Picard: We found that the stress hormone increased energy expenditure, at the cost of life, by 60%. [78:04] Dr. Martin Picard: We don't perceive the amount of energy [in our body]; we perceive the flow of energy or the transformation of energy. [145:05] Dr. Martin Picard: I think love is the experience of resonance... When you feel that with someone, it feels so special. [145:05] Dr. Martin Picard: I think this energetic system is the most sensitive instrument that we have to know whether the content of our lives is aligned with who we are as individuals... It acts as a barometer that guides us through life, like an energetic GPS.

[0:00] This is incontrovertible evidence that [0:02] graying of hair is reversible and [0:03] [music] it can be pre-fast. [0:05] >> Wow. [0:05] >> And there's more. So, we all walk around [0:07] with our biological [music] history [0:09] encoded in your hair. Like, for example, [0:11] if you have marijuana 6 months ago, it's [0:12] going to be in your hair. [0:14] >> He's got a haircut. [0:17] >> [laughter] [0:17] >> So, my [music] research lab had the idea [0:19] that if we could find what was happening [0:21] in this person's life when this [music] [0:23] young hair become old, then we could [0:24] understand the mechanism of the aging [0:26] process. [0:27] >> So, what is the secret to anti-aging? [0:29] >> It's the proper allocation [music] of [0:30] energy. [0:32] >> Can you can you How What's the simplest [0:34] way you can explain that to me? [0:35] >> So, first, [music] energy is real and [0:37] it's the difference between feeling like [0:39] you can change the world or feeling [0:40] completely drained. [0:41] >> [music] [0:42] >> And a lot of people live on that end of [0:43] the spectrum. And it's because there's a [0:45] finite energy budget with a hierarchy of [0:47] energy needs in the body. For example, [0:49] we did an experiment because we wanted [0:51] to know how much energy does it cost to [0:53] [music] worry about the future, to [0:54] ruminate about yesterday. And we found [0:56] that the stress hormone increased energy [0:58] expenditure [music] by 16%. Right? So, [1:00] it needs to steal energy from some of [1:02] the things that keep you young. [1:03] >> So, it's not the stress [music] that [1:05] burns us down. It's the response to [1:07] stress. And the third piece is this, [1:09] energy is in your mitochondria. And [1:11] there's [music] about 5,000 trillion [1:13] mitochondria in your body. And so, they [1:14] made our bodies possible and they can [1:16] change how you feel. [1:17] >> Well, I read that studies on brains of [1:20] dead people have found that those with [1:21] greatest sense of purpose have more [1:24] efficient mitochondria. [1:25] >> Yes. We are really in service of the [1:27] mitochondria. They allow us to be alive. [1:30] >> And yeah, I've got so many questions for [1:31] you based on what people wanted to know. [1:32] Like, how patients with ME, chronic [1:34] fatigue, or long COVID safely [1:36] rehabilitate their mitochondria. What I [1:39] consume, how does that impact the [1:40] efficiency of the energy? Does red light [1:43] therapy impact mitochondria? [music] [1:45] And is there anything I can do to have [1:47] more energy available? But before that, [1:49] I've heard you say that most diseases or [1:50] disorders can be explained by [1:52] understanding energy resistance. [1:54] >> Yeah. We think there's increased [music] [1:55] energy resistance in cancer, and then [1:57] Alzheimer's. Like fundamentally, [1:58] diabetes is a disease of energy [2:00] resistance. [2:01] >> So, is there anything I can do? [2:03] >> There is. So, you can start by [2:08] >> This is super interesting to me. My team [2:09] gave me this report to show me how many [2:11] of you that watch this show subscribe, [2:12] and some of you have told us, according [2:14] to this, that you are unsubscribed from [2:16] the channel randomly. So, favor to ask [2:18] all of you, please could you check right [2:19] now if you've hit the subscribe button [2:21] if you are a regular viewer of this show [2:22] and you like what we do here. We're [2:23] approaching quite a significant landmark [2:25] on this show in terms of a subscriber [2:27] number. So, if there was one simple, [2:29] free thing that you could do to help us, [2:31] my team, everyone here, to keep this [2:33] show free, to keep it improving year [2:35] over year and week over week, it is just [2:37] to hit that subscribe button and to [2:38] double-check if you've hit it. Only [2:39] thing I'll ever ask of you. [2:41] Do we have a deal? [2:42] If you do it, I'll tell you what I'll [2:43] do. I'll make sure [2:45] every single week, every single month, [2:46] we fight harder and harder and harder [2:47] and harder to bring you the guests and [2:49] conversations that you want to hear. [2:50] I've stayed true to that promise since [2:51] the very beginning of The Diary of a [2:52] CEO, and I will not let you down. Please [2:56] help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get [2:57] on with the show. [3:00] >> [music] [3:02] >> Dr. Martin Picard, [3:04] what is it that you believe, know, or [3:07] understand [3:08] that most people out there don't [3:11] believe, know, or understand? [3:15] >> We are energy. [3:17] We literally are the energy that's [3:19] flowing through the body. [3:21] >> Mhm. [3:22] >> And [3:23] and that sounds a little woo. [3:25] >> You don't have context. And And that's I [3:27] think something that we're just starting [3:29] to have the right scientific framework [3:31] to to understand, to understand [3:32] ourselves from first principles as [3:34] energetic processes. [3:36] >> In a nutshell, what is it that people [3:38] are looking for [3:40] when they [3:42] listen to this subject of energy? [3:44] >> Yeah. [3:45] I think that people want to understand [3:47] what is energy, and how can I have more [3:50] energy? [3:51] >> I can relate to that because sometimes, [3:53] you know, if I look through my life, [3:54] sometimes I wake up and I feel amazing. [3:57] I really have, in my view, done the same [3:59] thing. But then sometimes I wake up and [4:01] I don't feel amazing. And it feels kind [4:03] of like ruler, like this sort of sort of [4:05] opaque mystery of how do I wake up on [4:09] with more days in a row and feel [4:11] amazing, like I can take on the world. [4:13] And then there's also some friends that [4:14] I have who are suffering with different [4:16] things, whether it's chronic illness or [4:17] long COVID or whatever, who repeatedly [4:20] wake up and feel low energy for years, [4:23] you know, at a time. [4:24] >> Yeah. [4:25] >> That's a really tough [4:27] place to be when you wake up repeatedly [4:29] and and you don't feel like you have the [4:31] capacity, the energy to be in the world. [4:34] It's it's a really tough place to be. [4:35] >> And and who are you and why [4:39] did you commit your life to this [4:40] subject? [4:41] >> I'm a regular guy who with, you know, [4:43] lived experiences who who's gone through [4:45] some tough things that have taught me [4:47] lessons and have gone through wonderful [4:49] things that have made me feel like life [4:51] is really special and precious. And then [4:53] I became a a scientist and as I learned [4:56] the tools of science, I started to see [4:58] and I discovered mitochondria. [5:00] I thought, this is an approach to start [5:02] to bridge [5:04] what's true about the human experience [5:05] that we know from first experience [5:07] empirically and we know to be real not [5:10] because, you know, some white coat [5:11] wearing doctor or scientist, you know, [5:13] said, "Yes, energy is real and it's in [5:15] your mitochondria." [5:16] We know it to be real from first [5:17] experience. [5:19] Right? Because we we feel it. And then [5:21] what science is telling us about how [5:23] things work in our bodies, right? And [5:25] about health and and disease and where [5:27] diseases come from. So I had these [5:28] questions. So I became a scientist [5:31] to bridge those [5:32] domains of of existence. [5:35] The the science and the experience. Um [5:37] so I've led a research group at Columbia [5:40] University for 10 years [5:42] and founded an institute to [5:45] really build the systems and [5:47] technologies to to help people grow, [5:49] heal, and and and transform. [5:51] >> You have a PhD in mitochondria. [5:54] >> Yep. My PhD was in mitochondrial biology [5:56] of aging. [5:57] >> I mean, there's a an image here in front [5:59] of me. Some people will just be [6:00] listening, so we'll try and explain it [6:02] for them, but there's an image here of a [6:03] video. I'll play the video on screen [6:05] now, and it kind of looks like a looks a [6:07] little bit like an alien. But I I I read [6:10] that this video [6:12] was quite formative for you. What is [6:14] that video, and why was that a formative [6:16] moment in your career? [6:18] >> I took this video in England in [6:20] Newcastle upon Tyne in the north of [6:22] England with my Geordie friends. [6:26] The medical school there, I was a [6:27] graduate student and went there for kind [6:29] of an exchange, and this is the first [6:31] time I saw mitochondria moving. [6:34] I saw like the inner life of our cells. [6:36] And when I saw this, [6:38] something struck me as like, "Oh my god, [6:42] I'm able to see this, right? And to see [6:44] living mitochondria [6:46] because of the mitochondria inside of [6:48] me." [6:49] >> Mhm. [6:50] >> It's the energy that's flowing through [6:51] my mitochondria in my eye, right? That's [6:53] allowing me to perceive to see this. [6:55] Mitochondria made multicellular life [6:57] possible. They made our bodies possible, [6:59] and and we might just be a vehicle for [7:01] mitochondria to kind of propagate and [7:03] keep on living. So, when I saw this, [7:05] it's like, "This is mitochondria looking [7:06] at mitochondria." [7:07] >> Mhm. [7:07] >> And then I was starting to understand [7:09] that mitochondria do more than just [7:12] transforming energy. What they're known [7:13] for is they take the food you eat, and [7:16] then they take the oxygen that you [7:17] breathe in, and then those two things, [7:20] the food, the oxygen, converge inside [7:21] the mitochondria. And then something [7:23] really special happens. The electrons [7:25] that are stuck on food that were stuck [7:27] together in a green leaf somewhere, [7:29] right? Photosynthesis. What your [7:31] mitochondria do is they they kind of [7:33] unpack this, and they rip off the [7:34] electrons one by one, and then they flow [7:36] them like an electrical circuit. And [7:38] that happens in the like the 5,000 [7:40] trillion mitochondria that are in your [7:42] body. [7:43] And then when the electrons flow, they [7:44] need to flow towards something. Just [7:46] like an electrical circuit, electrons [7:48] flow from one pole of the battery to the [7:50] negative to to the other pole of the [7:51] battery. [7:52] Uh and that circuit is closed in the [7:55] mitochondria. [7:56] So that the electrons from the food you [7:58] eat flow towards oxygen that you [8:00] breathe, and then it becomes water. And [8:02] and it's that [8:04] vital flow of energy, electrons flowing [8:06] towards oxygen, that allows us to be [8:09] alive. And uh mitochondria do this, and [8:12] then as they do this, they transform [8:13] energy from food biochemistry into [8:16] electricity and into signals and into [8:19] heat. And the reason the body is warm is [8:21] because the mitochondria, as they [8:22] transform and flow electrons like a [8:24] little energetic circuit, they release [8:26] heat. So the the source of heat, right, [8:29] that makes us warm, you shake someone's [8:30] hand, you feel their warmth, you're [8:32] feeling the warmth from their [8:32] mitochondria. [8:33] >> So is there a mitochondrion every single [8:35] cell in my body? [8:37] >> There's [8:38] on average 1,000 mitochondria per cell. [8:41] >> Per cell, there's a thousand [8:42] mitochondria. So how many is there in my [8:43] body? [8:44] >> About 5,000 trillion. [8:46] >> Who should care about the mitochondria [8:49] and why should they care about it? [8:51] >> Anyone who cares about their energy. [8:54] Right? About having enough energy to do [8:56] what they really care about. [8:58] Uh [8:58] >> [clears throat] [8:58] >> we all care about different things. [8:59] We're we're all gifted and talented for [9:02] different things. Uh everyone has this, [9:05] you know, unique authentic self that [9:07] wants to come out. [9:08] The only way for this to come out, and [9:11] the only way for a person to flourish, [9:13] is through energy. [9:15] >> [clears throat] [9:15] >> If there's no energy flowing through [9:16] your body, you're dead. Right? And if [9:18] the energy doesn't flow efficiently, [9:21] right, and smoothly through you as an [9:23] organism, then [9:25] life feels hard. Like you you're not at [9:27] your best. You feel tired. Uh and and [9:29] you feel like [9:31] you know, maybe it's not worth it. You [9:32] know, when you're sick and your immune [9:33] system is like draining all all your [9:35] energy, it's really hard to be [9:37] optimistic and it's hard to be a good [9:38] person and it's hard to be a good dad. [9:42] And it's hard to want to do good for the [9:43] world if you're struggling with energy. [9:46] >> Do you know what it is? So many of us [9:47] think that [9:49] that just is what it is and that we can [9:50] do nothing about that. [9:52] You know, we we breathe in, we eat food [9:55] and then how we feel is kind of [9:57] roulette. [9:57] >> Yeah. [9:58] >> There's this certain, I think, feeling a [10:00] lot of us have that we can't really [10:01] control that much. [10:02] >> Mhm. [10:03] >> Where do we need to start to understand? [10:05] Cuz the outcome I want from this [10:06] conversation is I want to live my life [10:09] with more energy to do the things that I [10:12] want to do. And I imagine the people [10:13] that are listening also feel the same [10:14] way. So, where does one have to start? [10:16] I'd like to understand the basics and [10:18] then move to the actionable stuff, like [10:19] things I can do so that I live my life [10:22] full of energy. [10:22] >> Yeah. So, there there are three things [10:24] that are really foundational to how [10:26] energy works in the human body. One is [10:29] that you are the energy that's flowing [10:31] through this body. [10:32] >> I am the energy that's flowing through [10:34] my body. [10:34] >> Yes. [10:35] >> So, I'm not my body. [10:35] >> You're not your body. [10:36] >> Okay, I'm the energy flowing through it. [10:38] >> You, Stephen, [10:39] >> Yeah. [10:40] >> this expression now that I'm getting to [10:42] experience, thank you. [10:44] >> [laughter] [10:45] >> This expression is an expression of the [10:47] flow of energy. [10:49] If there was no energy flowing through [10:50] your body, through your heart, through [10:52] your brain, like you wouldn't be, right? [10:55] You'd be a cadaver and we'd say that [10:56] Stephen is gone, you know. [10:58] >> body. [10:58] >> Yeah, you'd be a dead body. The [10:59] difference between a dead body, a [11:01] cadaver, and a living, thinking, [11:03] feeling, conscious person, who cares, is [11:06] the flow of energy. [11:07] >> Okay. [11:07] >> You you get so indoctrinated in this [11:10] worldview that the only thing that's [11:11] real is the physical stuff. [11:14] And you know, the nucle- the the genes [11:17] that you that you got from your parents [11:18] and the body the physical body and [11:20] that's the real stuff. What you can't [11:21] see with your eyes, not real. [11:23] >> Mhm. [11:23] >> Right? I think that's a reframe that's [11:26] kind of a a bigger picture mindset shift [11:29] that we need to and and scientists [11:31] struggle with. So, number one is you are [11:33] the energy that flows and transforms uh [11:36] through this body. Number two is [11:39] there's a fixed energy budget. [11:41] Right? All of us have a fairly fixed [11:44] energy budget to deal with. And and for [11:47] example, if you want to have more energy [11:49] to do more podcasts, to write more [11:51] articles, to uh you know, be more [11:53] creative, the solution is not eating [11:55] more. [11:57] Because there's this fixed energy [11:58] budget. And if you overload the system, [12:00] you feed it too much food, especially [12:01] too much sugar, it's really hard on the [12:03] system. And then the system, like an [12:05] electrical system, you jack up the [12:07] voltage, right? And then the system [12:08] starts to overheat. [12:10] Uh so, inflammation is this this [12:12] overheating. There's too much energy in [12:13] the system. And [12:15] uh or the cells are are burning too much [12:16] energy, and they need to kind of tell [12:18] other cells that's [12:20] and those signals we call inflammation [12:22] cytokines. [12:23] >> Mhm. [12:23] >> So, there's a fixed energy budget that [12:25] you have to deal with. And over time, [12:27] the organism does a lot of of uh [12:30] finessing and adapting to kind of try to [12:33] preserve this energy budget. [12:34] >> And that's somewhat linked to stress, I [12:36] guess, which is from I read your work [12:37] and it talked about how stress was [12:39] basically just like an overconsumption [12:40] of energy. It's It's requiring loads and [12:42] loads and loads of energy. [12:43] >> Yeah. [12:44] >> Okay, we'll talk about that, too, then, [12:45] cuz I think stress is a really important [12:46] one. What's the third? [12:47] >> The third one is [12:49] life is resistance. [12:52] In order to be alive, in order to to [12:54] grow, to learn, [12:56] uh to transform, right? Change your [12:58] views. [12:59] You need resistance to go through some [13:02] resistance. [13:02] >> Mhm. [13:03] >> [clears throat] [13:03] >> You need energy to go through some [13:05] resistance. Right? If energy just flows [13:08] and there's no zero resistance, then [13:11] there's no possible transformation. [13:14] So, if life was always easy [13:16] >> Mhm. [13:16] >> and you never faced any challenge, any [13:18] stress in your life, then you would just [13:21] remain as is, right? And and it would be [13:22] very boring. And from first principles [13:25] physics, like we know this to be true, [13:27] you know, at a number of levels. But, [13:29] for example, the sun, this beautiful [13:31] nuclear reactor in the sky, [13:33] shoots energy, right? As photons. So, [13:35] light is a form of energy. And as long [13:38] as light, you know, [13:41] just goes and and photons travels in [13:43] outer space, photon will remain photon. [13:46] Light energy will remain light energy [13:48] until [clears throat] that light energy [13:50] hits a green leaf, [13:52] right? And the green leaf basically [13:54] breaks or stops the photon in its path. [13:56] So, it's it offers a constraint, right? [13:58] It offers resistance. [14:00] So, when light energy faces resistance, [14:03] now it can be converted. And that's the [14:05] basis of making food. That's how nature [14:08] makes food. [14:09] It crystallizes energy from sunlight [14:12] into molecules. Life, you know, plants [14:15] crystallize light energy into [14:18] carbohydrates. [14:19] And then those are transformed into the [14:21] different kinds of food that we eat. We [14:22] need resistance for energy to trans- [14:25] form into something meaningful. [14:26] >> has the mitochondria got to do with all [14:28] of this? [14:28] >> Mitochondria are basically little [14:30] resistors, right? And and they are what [14:32] allows the flow of energy through the [14:35] system. [14:35] >> Have you got a picture of Okay, here we [14:37] go. [14:37] >> Yeah. [14:38] >> Okay, so this is a an image of a [14:40] mitochondria. A mitochondrion o n is a [14:43] singular. Okay. [14:45] >> is plural. Yeah. So, this is a [14:46] mitochondrion and there's about a [14:48] thousand of these in each of your cells. [14:50] >> Okay. [14:51] >> And there's about 5 trillion cells in [14:54] your body uh that have a nucleus and [14:56] that have these beautiful mitochondria. [14:58] And what you see here, these little [15:00] wings, these are called cristae. [15:02] And the cristae is where the food you [15:04] eat end up and where the oxygen you [15:06] breathe end up as well. So, this is [15:08] where the electrons are flowing. There's [15:10] like little electrical circuits here. [15:12] And as the electrons are flowing, the [15:14] mitochondria become charged like little [15:16] batteries. So, effectively a [15:17] mitochondrion like this has all of these [15:20] sites of oxygen consumption and and food [15:23] consumption and then that gets [15:24] transformed [15:26] into a little charge battery. And once [15:28] the battery is charged, [15:30] the mitochondria can use that charge to [15:32] make ATP, adenosine triphosphate, which [15:34] is kind of the the cellular energy [15:36] currency. If a cell wants to contract, [15:38] right, a muscle cell wants to contract [15:40] in the gym, it needs ATP. So, it calls [15:42] upon the mitochondria, it says, "I need [15:44] ATP." And then the mitochondria gets to [15:46] work and then flows electrons, consumes [15:50] some food, burns some oxygen, that's why [15:52] you get out of breath. All right, so [15:53] when you get out of breath it's because [15:54] the mitochondria are using the oxygen [15:57] and calling for more oxygen. What we've [15:59] been discovering is that mitochondria do [16:00] a lot more than just making ATP. [16:03] >> Okay. [16:03] >> They use their their energized state to [16:06] produce signals, [16:08] to receive information and then to [16:09] produce signals. [16:10] >> Oh, so they're talking to each other. [16:11] >> They're talking to each other. [16:12] >> And what are they saying? [16:13] >> They're they're it's a whole collective [16:15] and and they're talking to each other, [16:17] kind of monitoring what's happening not [16:19] only inside the cell but outside the [16:20] cell. So, on the surface of [16:22] mitochondria, all along there are little [16:24] receptors for all sorts of signals that [16:27] tells this mitochondrion, is there [16:29] enough energy? Is there are we running [16:30] out of energy? Is there a stress hormone [16:33] here? Should we be getting ready for, [16:35] you know, something dangerous? [16:36] So, mitochondria are like like a little [16:38] distributed brain. [16:40] Right? So, they're like the [16:41] intracellular brain. [16:43] >> Am I right in thinking that they used to [16:44] be bacteria? [16:45] >> They are. Yeah, they did Yeah. [16:47] >> What what is that story? [16:48] >> [laughter] [16:49] >> Cuz I think someone said that to me [16:50] before on the show that our mitochondria [16:51] are actually bacteria that from [16:54] prehistoric times or something. [16:55] >> So, the story is about 1.5 billion years [16:58] ago [16:59] that there was two different types of [17:01] bacteria. [17:02] One type was able to use oxygen [17:05] to transform energy, right? So, it could [17:07] fuel along oxygen and and other food [17:09] substrates. The other type could not. It [17:11] was anaerobic. [17:13] And the anaerobic bacterium was probably [17:15] a little bigger and it had like a a few [17:16] more genes, [17:18] um and it could only ferment its food [17:20] and kind of fermenting the food, [17:22] spitting out, you know, like lactate or [17:24] like yeast does. And what happened is [17:27] the big one either engulfed the small [17:29] one, [17:30] right? Or maybe the small one kind of [17:32] infiltrated, colonized the big one. And [17:35] the story goes uh that this basically [17:38] gave a whole bunch more energy to the [17:40] big cell. [17:41] That's one perspective. And then with [17:43] more energy, what can you do? You can [17:45] evolve more complexity. [17:46] The version I I favor, based on the [17:48] evidence we have, is that when [17:50] mitochondria came in and then they they [17:53] there was this new structure, this [17:55] symbiotic relationship, mitochondria [17:57] basically gave the ability of the cell [18:00] to perceive the environment in a [18:01] different way and to compute information [18:03] in a different way. So, [18:05] maybe the the the coming of of [18:07] mitochondria into this big cell [18:09] made the big cell social. Because before [18:12] this event, most of the evidence says [18:14] that cells were asocial. They were [18:16] little bacteria foraging for for for [18:19] themselves and you know, kind of [18:21] operating from a very selfish [18:23] uh perspective. Just trying to [18:24] replicate, you know, just trying to [18:26] survive. When mitochondria came in, it [18:28] like gave those cells a different view [18:29] on life. And they're like, "Ooh, we [18:31] could work together. How about you [18:32] become a cell that gets energy, right? [18:35] And I become a cell that uh moves, [18:38] right? So then you're the gut and I'm [18:40] going to be the muscle." [18:41] And and then then together those two [18:43] cells can do a lot more, right? [18:45] >> And fast forward a couple billion years [18:47] and here we are. [18:47] >> Here we are, yeah. And and that led to, [18:50] you know, bodies with organs, you know, [18:52] the liver feeds the rest of the body, [18:54] the heart keeps things flowing, the [18:56] brain kind of computes and and plans. Uh [18:59] so that's division of labor. It's uh and [19:01] it started with the mitochondria. [19:03] >> You you talked about energy resistance. [19:05] I've heard you say that most diseases or [19:07] disorders can be explained by [19:08] understanding energy resistance. [19:11] Give me a a disease that's linked to [19:13] energy resistance. [19:14] >> The clearest is [19:16] what we call insulin resistance or [19:17] diabetes. [19:18] Right? Diabetes affects millions in the [19:20] world. Fundamentally, diabetes is a [19:23] disease of energy resistance. Uh so, if [19:25] your resistance is too high [19:27] >> Because [19:28] >> Because you have [19:31] um [19:32] too much energy pushed onto the system. [19:34] >> Sugar, too much sugar, glucose. [19:36] >> Yeah, exactly. Or if the mitochondria [19:38] are impaired, right? They can't flow [19:41] energy, then the the the the energy is [19:43] kind of stuck. It faces [19:46] greater constraints. Like it wants to go [19:48] in that direction, but then there's a [19:49] barrier and then another barrier, [19:50] another barrier. It's like water [19:52] flowing, right? Nice and and and and and [19:55] smooth, and then there's like a dam. [19:58] Right? And if the dam has zero [20:01] um openings, right? Then the the the [20:04] water accumulates and then there's high [20:05] pressure. And then at some point, the [20:07] the water accumulates and ends up [20:08] flooding the the landscape and then [20:10] damaging things. So, it's a bit of like [20:12] the same thing. If now you open [20:14] floodgates on the dam, right? Then then [20:16] you can use that energy to make [20:18] electricity, for example. You use the [20:20] the movement of the water to transform [20:21] this into electricity. That's basically [20:23] what the mitochondria do. [20:25] Uh and if you move and you're physically [20:26] active, now the flow of energy through [20:28] the mitochondria can transform into [20:30] work, right? Into speed, into [20:33] uh movement, right? Into lifting. [20:35] >> Is this linked to cancer at all? Because [20:39] it sounds I mean, I don't know much [20:40] about cancer, but [20:42] cells dividing out of um control [20:46] seemingly randomly [20:48] >> Yeah. I think that there's a very good [20:49] chance, if you look at the biology of [20:51] cancer and what scientists call the [20:53] hallmarks of cancer there's like a [20:56] a 10-item flywheel of these are the core [21:00] features of of cancer. Uh all of those [21:02] features have some relationship, some [21:04] very direct, with increased energy [21:06] resistance. Right? So, if energy can't [21:08] flow smoothly and a cell [21:11] uh is, you know, burning too much energy [21:12] and it and it doesn't flow energy [21:14] through the mitochondria, which is what [21:15] cancer cells do. Cancer cells ditch [21:16] their mitochondria and they revert back [21:18] to this ancestral, you know, cell that [21:21] didn't have mitochondria. It was [21:21] anaerobic. It was spitting out lactate. [21:25] And we don't really know why cells do [21:26] this. It's called the Warburg effect. [21:28] And the Warburg effect is when a cell, [21:31] in the presence of oxygen, right? If it [21:33] wanted, it could use oxygen, flow [21:35] electrons through mitochondria, and [21:37] transform energy, and and live a nice [21:40] social life, uh like every cell in in [21:42] this [21:43] social collective does in the body. [21:46] Uh what cancer cells do is they say, [21:47] "I'm not going to use my mitochondria, [21:49] even if there's oxygen, even if my [21:51] mitochondria can respire." And by doing [21:53] this, [21:54] it seems like cancer cells revert back [21:56] to this ancestral [21:58] cell, right? That that just [22:00] cares about itself. [22:01] >> So, an antisocial cell. [22:02] >> Yeah. Then the the the organism will in [22:04] the tumor will try to make more blood [22:06] vessels around it. Right, it's called [22:07] angiogenesis. So, it's like the the [22:09] cancer cell trying to decrease energy [22:11] resistance. It says, "Bring me more [22:12] oxygen." [22:13] >> So, it's kind of like there's this sort [22:14] of alien all of a sudden that decides it [22:16] no longer wants to work with the rest of [22:17] the organism, and that it's going to be [22:18] selfish, and demand more and more [22:21] resources for itself. [22:22] >> Mhm. [22:23] >> And it multiplies itself Yeah. With [22:26] equally selfish little aliens? [22:29] >> Yeah. [22:29] >> And then the body responds by [22:32] listening to it and giving it more [22:33] resources? Is that what you're saying? [22:35] >> Why do the blood vessels surround the [22:36] cancer? [22:37] >> Yeah, it's like it's the cancer calling [22:39] for, you know, more energy. [22:41] >> Okay. [22:41] >> Yeah. [22:42] So, energy resistance is the product of [22:44] two things. Is how much energy is being [22:47] demanded, right? Like how much power is [22:49] being deployed in in the in the tumor, [22:52] for example, or in the working muscle. [22:54] Uh and then how much energy is can flow [22:57] through the system. It's like the [22:58] equivalent of current in an electrical [23:00] system. So, if there's a lot of demand, [23:03] right, a lot of power is being generated [23:05] or a lot of activity is happening like [23:08] in a cancer cell, but there's not enough [23:10] flow to to to to support that activity, [23:14] then that increases resistance. [23:18] >> So, is there any understanding as to how [23:20] those kind of cancers are caused? Like, [23:23] what what causes that moment where, you [23:24] know, you talked about the Warburg [23:26] effect? What causes that? [23:27] >> The cancer community used to think that [23:29] dominant driver for cancer was genetic [23:32] mutations, but there's an emerging [23:34] perspective that changes in metabolism, [23:37] changes in the way electrons flow [23:38] through through this energetic [23:40] circuitry, through the mitochondria, can [23:42] actually drive the [23:45] instance of a of a new cancer cell. And [23:47] then when it a cell becomes cancerous, [23:49] ditches its its mitochondria, it goes [23:51] back to this selfish state, and then it [23:53] makes more of itself. [23:54] >> And it tries not to die. Explain that [23:56] part to me cuz I was reading about how [23:58] cancer cells try to evade death. [24:00] >> Yeah, the best way to think about this, [24:02] I think, is as a a social collective, [24:04] right? Every cell in this organism [24:07] cares about the same thing, which is [24:09] pres- preserving the the life and and [24:11] the health of the whole being, right? [24:13] So, [clears throat] every cell in in [24:14] this body is in a social contract with [24:17] every other cell. [24:18] Right? [24:19] A cancer cell basically [24:22] gets out of this agreement and says, [24:24] "No, no, I'm going to fare for myself. [24:26] I'm going to take all the energy I can [24:28] and I'm going to make more of myself and [24:30] it it goes into, you know, bacterial [24:32] mode." That happens [24:35] sometimes because of mutations and it [24:38] seems like there there other causes of [24:40] this. Like, for example, hyperglycemia. [24:42] >> What's that? [24:42] >> High blood glucose. [24:44] >> Mhm. [24:44] >> Right? [24:45] Diabetes [24:47] is a major risk factor for developing [24:49] cancer. [24:50] Why is that? [24:52] I don't think there there are good [24:53] explanations out there based on like the [24:55] molecular framework of of disease and [24:58] you know the the genetic [25:00] mutation perspective. [25:02] If you look at cancer from an an [25:04] energetic perspective and [25:06] it's I think likely that the increase in [25:09] blood glucose increases the pressure, [25:11] right? There's more electrons that are [25:12] being pushed onto those cells or to [25:15] those mitochondria. And when you push [25:17] too much energy on a system that doesn't [25:18] need energy, it's like you're trying to [25:20] shove, you know, a lot of of water [25:22] through a very small pipe. [25:23] >> Something goes wrong. [25:24] >> Yeah, something goes wrong. Something [25:26] something can break. [25:27] So the the resistance is [25:29] if you push a lot of energy into a very [25:32] small, you know, container or into a a [25:34] channel that can support that, then the [25:36] the what happens kind of physically is [25:40] an increase in in the resistance to the [25:41] flow. [25:42] And then that can lead to the cell [25:44] trying to protect itself. [25:46] That's what insulin resistance is in [25:47] diabetes, right? Insulin resistance is a [25:50] protection mechanism. There's too much [25:53] glucose being pushed onto the cell, [25:55] right? And so that causes this excess, [25:58] you know, energy coming in. The cell [25:59] says, "Whoa, you know, too much." And it [26:02] damages the mitochondria, this excess [26:03] resistance, because there's too much [26:05] heat produced, reactive oxygen species, [26:08] oxidative stress. [26:09] >> I was thinking about smoking and how [26:11] smoking also is carcinogenic. It's [26:13] cancer causing. And through the lens of [26:15] the mitochondria, how could something [26:17] like smoking be [26:19] cancer causing? [26:20] >> Yeah. [26:21] It's clear that in [26:23] cigarette smoke, there are carcinogens. [26:25] They're molecules that can damage the [26:27] genome and cause mutations. [26:30] It there's a strong link between lung [26:32] cancer and smoking, but for all of the [26:34] other cancers, there's much less of a a [26:37] clear connection between exposure and [26:39] cancer. [26:40] Right, the cancers that that affect and [26:41] and kill most people, [26:44] we don't really know [26:46] why they come, when they come. [26:48] And it's clear that there's kind of a [26:49] long history. And [26:51] uh [26:51] the the science behind, you know, [26:53] connecting metabolism and cancer shows [26:55] that obesity and [26:58] uh high blood glucose and diabetes [27:01] especially, which causes very high, you [27:04] know, excursion I I have very high [27:06] spikes in in blood glucose, those things [27:08] are damaging to ourselves. And what the [27:10] energy resistance principle says is that [27:13] biology processes energy in terms of [27:16] resistance. [27:17] And it makes that kind of computation. [27:19] How much energy is flowing now? And then [27:21] how much how much energy demand and how [27:23] much energy pressure am I exposed to? [27:26] And if there's an imbalance, then that [27:29] uh causes damage. [27:31] >> Rather than being innocent bystanders, [27:33] mitochondria are hijacked by cancer. The [27:35] tumor re-programs them to stop acting [27:37] like the body's protective energy [27:39] factories and starts using them as a [27:41] manufacturing plant to build more cancer [27:43] cells. Because of this, targeting [27:45] mitochondrial metabolism has become a [27:47] major promising frontier in developing [27:49] new cancer therapies. [27:50] >> Mhm. [27:52] >> It hijacks the the mitochondria and uses [27:55] them to produce more cancer cells. [27:57] Mhm. [27:57] >> So, a normal cell [28:00] uh [28:00] is driven, its behavior it's driven by [28:04] the mitochondria. It's like mitochondria [28:05] are in the driver's seat. Right? [28:07] Mitochondria can basically call the [28:08] shots. If is the cell to live and [28:11] divide, right? Or is the cell to [28:13] contract and remain this kind of cell? [28:16] Or if it's a stem cell, is it to divide [28:18] or remain a stem cell? Uh or is it to [28:21] die? Right? And cells have to make these [28:23] decisions all the time. And cell suicide [28:25] for the greater good is something that [28:27] happens all the time in our bodies. And [28:28] that's why and how we get rid of of most [28:31] cancer cells, right? As far as we [28:32] understand, you have a cell that kind of [28:35] defects from the social collective, and [28:37] then the organism has the wisdom to say, [28:39] "Okay, this is no longer ours. Let's get [28:41] rid of it." Right? Because it could [28:43] become cancer. And most of the time that [28:45] works well. Uh but what cancer cells can [28:47] do is say, "Okay, I'm They They ditch [28:49] their mitochondria and then they start [28:50] to use them for their own growth." Uh [28:53] and by ditching their mitochondria, they [28:54] basically immunize themselves against [28:57] the death that mitochondria could could [28:59] trigger. So, mitochondria have a veto on [29:01] cell life or death, and cancer somehow [29:03] is able to kind of get away from that. [29:06] >> And it's it's it's weird to think about [29:07] because yeah, the things that are cause [29:09] cancer or that have a correlation to [29:10] cancer are things like, you know, [29:13] as you said, like having too much of [29:14] this stuff here. Too much sugar. [29:16] >> stuff, yes. [29:17] >> High blood glucose levels, etc., are [29:19] linked to cancer. And one would wonder [29:21] why [29:22] eating sugar in excess is going to [29:24] increase my probability of cancer, but [29:27] obviously it points to the fact that it [29:29] must be doing something to my energy [29:30] systems which are causing some kind of [29:32] malfunction somewhere. [29:33] >> Yeah. [29:33] And what the energy resistance principle [29:36] allows us to understand is why that is [29:39] and what's really happening. If you [29:40] overload your body with [29:43] excess energy, [29:45] your body has to deal with this. And in [29:46] a simple electrical system circuit, if [29:49] you jacked up, you know, the voltage and [29:52] the system is is too weak to take this, [29:54] then resistance goes through the roof, [29:56] the transistors start to melt, and then [29:58] the system, you know, it gets gets [30:00] damaged. [30:00] >> Mhm. [30:01] >> The The same thing happens, you know, in [30:03] the body. If you overload the system [30:04] with too much energy, too many [30:05] electrons, right? Very direct parallel [30:08] with the electrical circuit. There [30:10] electrons stuck here on these little [30:12] glucose molecules. If you ingest this, [30:14] now increases the voltage in the body. [30:17] And then if the mitochondria can't keep [30:19] up and because they're they're not [30:22] flowing energy because you're sedentary, [30:24] you're you're not moving, um then that [30:27] increases the resistance. All right? And [30:28] then [30:29] >> And it might die or malfunction. [30:31] >> Correct. Or things get damaged, right? [30:33] The The clear connection here is too [30:35] much energy, increased energy [30:37] resistance. So, then the electrons that [30:38] normally flow smoothly in your [30:40] metabolism, right? From the food to your [30:42] mitochondria, [30:44] then that whole circuit becomes more [30:45] resistive. And then if you're an [30:46] electron and you're trying to go through [30:49] the the metabolic pathways looking for [30:51] oxygen in a mitochondrion, but then [30:54] at every [clears throat] [30:55] at every point in this cascade you face [30:57] resistance, there's more chance that [30:59] that electron kind of jets out and and [31:02] then becomes oxidative stress. [31:04] >> Well, then what's what's going on with [31:05] aging? I've got two women in front of me [31:08] and they have two different colors of [31:11] hair. Now, let's just pretend for [31:14] argument's sake and for the sake of this [31:16] explanation that this is someone's hair [31:18] that's gone gray because of stress. [31:22] Um and this is what she used to look [31:24] like or he used to look like in terms of [31:26] the color of the hair. [31:27] What I found really interesting cuz it [31:29] kind of speaks to [31:30] lots of things that are going on going [31:32] on in the body is you're saying you can [31:34] actually reverse [31:36] gray hair [31:39] without dyeing it. And if so, what does [31:41] that tell us about what gray hair is, [31:43] but more broadly about stress, energy, [31:46] mitochondria, and everything in between? [31:47] >> Yeah. [31:48] Uh what we discovered is that hair [31:50] graying is reversible. And and that was [31:54] surprising because what I've learned and [31:56] what most people learn is that when you [31:58] age it's kind of this linear progressive [32:00] decline and and there's kind of nothing [32:02] you can do about it. Uh but it turns out [32:04] that if you look on most people's head, [32:08] um [32:09] you can see things like this. This is [32:11] obviously, you know, this was dyed and [32:13] all of the hairs were were white and [32:15] then all the hairs are are are dark. And [32:18] if you take a hair like this, uh the tip [32:20] here, right, was inside the body long [32:23] time ago. This is almost like if you [32:24] look at tree rings, right? You take a [32:26] tree and you cut it in cross-section, [32:28] you see like the rings, and then you can [32:30] say, "Ooh, this ring was [32:32] uh 30 years ago, right?" And this ring [32:34] is today. Uh so, you can use that to [32:36] kind of map the history of what happened [32:37] in the environment of of the tree. [32:40] You can do the same thing. We all walk [32:42] around with biological history [32:44] crystallized in in this hair. And that's [32:46] why if you want to know if someone had a [32:48] a drug, for example, like a month ago or [32:50] 6 months ago or like 2 years ago, [32:52] depending how long the hair is, you can [32:54] actually use the hair and all along [32:56] would be, you know, the chemical [32:57] signature of what you took. So you can [33:00] find marijuana in in the hair, you know, [33:02] here but not here. So if you if you have [33:04] marijuana [33:06] 6 months ago, it's going to be in your [33:07] hair and you're going to walk around uh, [33:10] with that trace, that physical trace in [33:12] in your body. [33:12] >> He's got hiccups. [33:13] >> [laughter] [33:15] >> And the idea was if we could find hairs [33:18] on someone's head [33:19] that the tip was [33:22] uh, dark, right? And then when you look [33:25] closer to the body, it becomes white. [33:27] Right? And you would say the hair was [33:28] young, it was young, it was young, it [33:29] was young, and then boom, it became old, [33:31] right? It It lost color. Hair graying is [33:34] a a a classic hallmark of aging. Um, [33:37] then we thought then you would know [33:38] something that something was happening [33:40] in this hair follicle in this person's [33:42] body, right? That made this young hair [33:44] become old. And then maybe we could [33:46] understand the mechanisms of the aging [33:48] process. So this became a kind of an [33:50] interesting scenario. And through doing [33:53] this, we found people started to send us [33:55] hair samples in Ziploc bags, you know, [33:57] over the mail. Uh, and we were looking [33:59] for two-colored hairs, a single hair [34:02] that has two colors, kind of like this. [34:04] Uh, and we found the hairs that [34:06] uh, you know, head hair, beard hair, [34:08] pubic hairs that showed the signature. [34:11] The hair was dark and then it became [34:13] white or the hair was white and it [34:15] became dark again. [34:16] >> Mhm. [34:17] >> So we had physical evidence from like [34:19] multiple people that showed white hairs [34:21] can go back to being dark. And this [34:23] contradicted this idea that, you know, [34:26] aging is this linear progressive process [34:28] that we're kind of doomed to experience [34:30] without any flexibility. I was one of [34:33] the participants in that study. I ended [34:34] up finding five hairs that had this [34:36] pattern. And when we looked at when the [34:38] reversal happened, we found that the [34:40] reversal happened when I went on [34:42] vacation. [34:43] And I would go back in those days on [34:46] annual [34:47] uh cycling uh training camps. So, I [34:49] would go for a week where all you do is [34:52] you bike, you eat, you sleep. Uh energy [34:55] started to move very differently in my [34:56] body during that that time. [34:59] Um and then when we looked at the hair [35:02] and we analyzed the the composition, the [35:04] molecular composition, that's what [35:05] scientists do. You can take a hair like [35:07] this, snip the pieces, the white [35:09] segment, the dark segment, it's all the [35:11] same genome, right? Every hair has the [35:12] same genome, the same genetic material, [35:15] same food, uh same physical activity, [35:17] same everything. Why some hairs grow [35:19] like this or like that uh [35:21] was an opportunity to understand the [35:22] dynamics, the plasticity, like how life [35:25] can go from being young to old or old [35:27] back to young. Uh and what we found was [35:29] a the main signal was a mitochondrial [35:31] signal. [35:32] And in the white hair, I thought there's [35:34] going to be less color, right? [35:36] Obviously, but also probably less [35:38] mitochondria, less, you know, some other [35:40] things. We found that the white hairs [35:42] have more mitochondria. [35:44] And there was an upregulation of the [35:46] body that the hair follicle where the [35:49] hair was becoming old wasn't kind of [35:51] letting go of things. It was doing more. [35:53] >> So, that means during that period of [35:56] time, you were more stressed and using [36:00] more energy? [36:00] >> When cells become old, instead of just [36:03] dying, right? They struggle. [36:05] And when a cell has damage in the DNA or [36:08] the mitochondria not working properly or [36:11] for some reason they accumulate damage [36:13] and become old, the cell struggles to [36:15] make more mitochondria. And it it tries [36:18] to kind of compensate. [36:20] And then ends up wasting a lot of energy [36:22] in the process. [36:23] >> So, when that hair what you looked at [36:24] that was gray, let's call it, um it had [36:27] more mitochondria because it was [36:30] struggling. [36:31] And why was it struggling? [36:33] >> It looks like the stress hormones can, [36:35] you know, make a cell struggle, for [36:37] example. [36:37] >> Cortisol? [36:38] >> Cortisol, yes. If you're a cell, right, [36:40] and your perspective on the world is [36:42] pretty simple. [36:44] You don't have, you know, the senses [36:45] that, you know, we we enjoy, but you do, [36:48] nevertheless, you know, sense the [36:49] environment. If cortisol comes and you [36:51] get the signal, [36:52] it means there's something out there in [36:54] the environment that's dangerous. Right, [36:56] you should be preparing for having to [36:57] fight or to flight or [36:59] there's something out there that's [37:00] dangerous. Our cells evolved to [37:01] interpret cortisol in that way. [37:03] So, we did an experiment in the dish. We [37:06] wanted to know how much energy does it [37:08] cost to worry about the future? [37:10] Right? Or how much energy does it cost [37:12] to ruminate about yesterday? [37:14] >> Mhm. [37:14] >> The thing you didn't do or the mistake [37:16] you made at work or [37:17] >> [laughter] [37:17] >> that conversation that went sideways, [37:20] you know, with your partner. [37:21] How much energy does that cost to be [37:23] thinking about this, to be, you know, [37:24] engaging your stress system, to be [37:26] releasing cortisol? [37:28] So, two students in a lab, Gabriel and [37:30] Natalia, did that experiment. You put [37:32] You put cells in a dish. You give them [37:34] the equivalent of cortisol. How much [37:36] energy is going to cost for these cells [37:38] to prepare? There's nothing damaging [37:42] to the cortisol itself, but the cortisol [37:43] is a signal that there might be [37:44] something dangerous outside. Right, [37:46] that's like when you're sitting down, [37:47] you get an email, you're like, [37:49] "I might lose my job, right?" Or "I [37:51] might not get this contract." And then [37:53] you you have this whole stress response. [37:55] Your heart starts to beat [37:56] faster. How much energy does that cost? [37:58] So, in cells in a dish, we can isolate [38:01] that question really well. We found that [38:04] the stress hormone increased energy [38:06] expenditure, at the cost of life, by [38:08] 60%. [38:10] >> So, when I'm stressed, I'm using 60% [38:13] more energy, theoretically. [38:14] >> I don't know about you, but cells in a [38:16] dish. [38:17] >> [laughter] [38:17] >> Okay. [38:17] >> So, there the beauty about like [38:20] bodies and, you know, with the mind and, [38:22] you know, just complex organism. They're [38:24] buffering systems, right? So, you might [38:25] Yeah, I don't think your energy [38:26] expenditure increased by 60% if you're [38:28] stressed out, but it increases somewhat. [38:31] >> What is that graph there? [38:32] >> So, there two graphs here. [38:35] The top one is the color of the hair of [38:38] a single hair from a young Asian woman [38:41] who was part of the study. And what we [38:43] see here, this is called a hair [38:44] pigmentation pattern, the HPP that we we [38:47] developed in the lab to understand [38:49] quantitatively bring science to the to [38:52] hair graying and and reversal. And so, [38:54] what you see here is this hair was dark [38:56] and then it became white [38:58] for 2 cm and then boom, completely [39:02] regained color. Actually, it regained It [39:04] was darker here than it than it used to [39:05] be, right? And then stayed dark [39:07] afterwards. So, this is a hair that we [39:09] received in the mail as we were starting [39:12] to to collect [39:14] two-colored hairs. [39:15] And then when we when we saw this, we [39:18] had found from a few different people [39:20] white hairs that had regained color. [39:22] We'd never seen a hair like this. That's [39:24] dark, white, and then dark, right? So, I [39:27] remember holding this hair. I was like, [39:29] "Oh my god." [39:30] This is in the same hair. This is [39:32] incontrovertible evidence that graying [39:35] of hair is reversible and it can be [39:37] pretty pretty fast. Like this transition [39:40] here is just a few weeks. This is about [39:41] 1 week. Right? So, this white hair, [39:44] completely white, regained color in just [39:45] about a week. So, then we developed an [39:48] instrument which was a simple sheet. On [39:51] the Y axis, the vertical is most [39:54] stressful thing that ever happened to [39:55] you, no stress at all. 10 and zero. And [39:59] then the X axis, the horizontal, was [40:02] time. Yes. [40:03] On the far right is now, right? This is [40:06] now, this is a year ago. And then we [40:08] labeled all the months. [40:10] And then we asked people and we asked [40:12] this lady put a dot on the graph that [40:15] was the most stressful time in the past [40:17] year. Like anyone can do the exercise, [40:19] past year, most stressful time. [40:22] Okay, maybe last March. And then you put [40:24] a dot right in March, number 10. And [40:27] then least stressful part, uh zero. And [40:29] then put other like meaningful things [40:31] that happened that were challenging. So [40:32] people put dots, you know, along the [40:34] this last year, then connect the dots, [40:36] right? [40:38] The red graph is her dots connected. [40:42] >> And it correlates perfectly to her hair [40:44] going gray. [40:45] >> Correct. [40:46] And what happened to her life, she said [40:48] she finished her PhD thesis and she was [40:51] jobless, but she was fine. She was happy [40:54] to be done with her studies and then [40:56] broke up with her boyfriend. [40:58] >> Oh, damn, and her hair went gray. [41:00] >> Yeah. Broke up with her boyfriend. She [41:02] didn't know what was happening with her [41:03] life. She had to travel to Europe. There [41:05] was some family drama. [41:07] Uh she said these were the last the most [41:08] stressful 2 months of my life. [41:10] >> There's a killer question here, which is [41:13] if that remains chronic, does that hair [41:16] follicle go gray forever? [41:18] >> Yeah. [41:19] >> I if I go through a a stressful period [41:22] for 2 to 3 weeks and my hair goes a bit [41:25] gray, as long as I get out of that [41:27] stressful period as quick as possible, [41:29] does that hair then return to to black [41:31] or dark? [41:32] >> Yeah. [41:32] >> Do you see what I'm saying? [41:33] >> Yes. It seems like and we ran some like [41:35] fancy mathematical model to understand [41:36] why this would be possible, [41:38] why it could happen like now for this [41:41] hair and then be reversible, but we know [41:43] it, you know, very well. If you have a [41:45] full head of gray hair and you're 70 [41:46] years old, you're not going to regain [41:47] your color. [41:48] >> Yeah. [41:48] >> So there seems to what the model the [41:50] mathematical model suggested is that [41:52] there's a window of opportunity, [41:54] right? Where a hair slowly accumulates [41:56] damage, becomes more and more probably [41:59] energetically inefficient, right? So [42:00] there's more and more energy resistance, [42:02] and then there's a barrier. And then [42:03] when the the hair hits that threshold, [42:06] now it loses color. [42:07] >> It's done. [42:08] >> Yeah. But then if something changes in [42:10] the body, right? You go on a vacation or [42:13] you start to do intermittent fasting and [42:16] then there's more energy available for [42:17] your dark hair, now it can be reversed, [42:19] right? Because you can go back up [42:21] against that threshold. But then [42:23] eventually this hair is going to go gray [42:24] again. And then if you're way way down, [42:26] like this hair turned gray 10 years ago [42:28] and you go back up, you're too far away [42:30] from threshold to regain color. [42:32] >> Okay. [42:33] >> So it suggests to some threshold model [42:35] that there's a window of opportunity for [42:38] some something as binary as hair color. [42:40] It's a black or it's white, right? So [42:42] there's kind of a window of opportunity [42:43] there where [42:44] >> where you can reverse gray hair. [42:46] >> Yes. [42:46] >> I do want to come back to this hair [42:48] thing, but it did make me think cuz you [42:50] you added a layer of nuance there, which [42:51] is about the mind. [42:52] >> Mhm. [42:53] >> Like if I go through my life um with a [42:56] more resilient mind and you get that bad [42:59] email and you go [43:00] and I get the bad email and I go [43:02] it, who cares? [43:02] >> Yeah. [43:03] >> Am I therefore going to be a way more [43:04] productive person throughout those 24 [43:06] hours because my mitochondria are using [43:08] less energy because there's less [43:09] cortisol? [43:10] >> Yeah. Based on what we know, I think [43:11] that's likely correct. [43:13] So it's not the stress that burns us [43:16] down, it's the response to stress. And [43:19] nothing is free in biology. And for your [43:20] heart to beat a little faster, if you [43:22] mount a response to that email, right? [43:25] You're burning energy in your heart. And [43:27] then [43:27] >> [clears throat] [43:27] >> you're tensing your you know, your your [43:29] shoulder, that's burning energy. Now [43:31] your brain is going into like rumination [43:32] mode and then this thing and then then [43:35] it makes you think about your childhood [43:36] and this and like and then the anx- the [43:38] anxiety and then you start to sweat. [43:40] Like everything costs energy. [43:42] >> So the chain of events is I get the [43:45] email. It's a very bad email. Says [43:47] you're fired, Steven, from the BBC. We [43:49] found a different host. [43:50] >> Yeah. [43:50] >> Um I look at the email. [43:52] That goes into my psychology, my mind. [43:55] I then have a story I tell myself about [43:58] what that email means for me, my future, [43:59] my children, whatever. [44:01] Which then causes a physiological [44:03] response of like chemicals like [44:05] cortisol. [44:06] >> Yeah. [44:07] >> Um which goes into my cells, my [44:09] mitochondria, which then have to work a [44:11] little bit harder or use more energy. [44:12] >> Mhm. [44:13] >> Which is ultimately then going to mean [44:15] that I'm [44:16] more tired because I have a finite [44:19] amount of energy per day. [44:21] >> Mhm. [44:22] >> Is that Is that sequence of events I I [44:24] ask about that sequence because it [44:25] offers me an opportunity to intervene at [44:27] some point. [44:27] >> Yes. Yes. [44:29] >> That's it. Right, when you think about [44:30] it. [44:31] >> [laughter] [44:32] >> Or I [44:33] get a little bit better with bad news. [44:35] >> Yeah, or you know, learn to be less [44:37] reactive, right? Or learn to to feel and [44:40] and [44:41] um, you know, sit with be aware of that [44:43] reaction cuz the key solution to kind of [44:47] to cutting that [44:48] sequence of event that ends up draining [44:50] you is to become aware of it. [44:52] >> Yeah, become aware of it. Yeah. [44:54] >> All right? Uh, so you can kind of [44:55] interrupt this and people who study [44:58] contemplative practices and and [45:00] meditation and you know, mindfulness [45:02] approaches, [45:03] I think many of them think this is kind [45:05] of the key, right? The the the [45:06] awareness, the somatic awareness or [45:08] interoception. So if you feel into your [45:12] your bodily responses, you become free [45:14] of do I mount a response? Is that needed [45:16] now or not? [45:17] >> There's different types of stress, [45:18] right? There's like the acute stress, [45:20] which is just you get the email, you [45:22] feel a little bit of a spike, but 5 [45:23] minutes later you're fine. [45:24] >> Yep. [45:25] >> And then there's the more chronic type [45:27] of stress where [45:28] you're waking up every day with the same [45:30] feeling of stress deep inside you for [45:33] many many days in a row, many weeks in a [45:34] row. [45:35] >> Yeah. [45:35] >> Um, I hear that acute stress isn't all [45:37] that bad and it's very normal and [45:39] useful, but it's this chronic stress [45:41] that can cause a lot of damage. [45:42] >> Yeah, and I think that brings us back to [45:44] the concept of how is energy flowing [45:46] through the body? And if it flows with [45:48] not enough resistance, you can't [45:50] survive, but if there's too much [45:51] resistance, then you you get drained. [45:53] >> How do I think about this resistance [45:55] thing cuz I'm really struggling with [45:56] like understanding it? [45:58] >> Maybe one good example to to frame this [46:00] is exercise. [46:01] >> Yeah. [46:02] >> All right? When you start to exercise, [46:04] there's increased resistance in your [46:06] muscle, right? Your muscles are [46:08] contracting, so there's a physical [46:09] resistance there, but there's also [46:11] energy resistance. So, the the energy is [46:13] trying to flow through the muscle, and [46:14] then there's you have mitochondria. If [46:16] you have just a few mitochondria and the [46:18] muscles are contracting really hard, [46:20] like you're running, you're sprinting, [46:21] right? You're doing interval training. [46:23] Um now, the mitochondria don't have the [46:25] capacity to flow as much energy as the [46:27] muscle is asking. [46:29] Right? So, that's an imbalance of demand [46:32] to flow capacity. Now, the the product [46:34] of this, the demand divided by flow [46:37] capacity, is resistance. [46:38] >> Okay. [46:39] >> So, if you demand a lot of your muscle [46:41] because of your your your sprint, uh but [46:43] you you don't have a lot of [46:44] mitochondria, right? It's going to feel [46:46] terrible. Uh and then because the [46:48] resistance creeps up, and then your [46:49] muscle, you know, becomes really hot, [46:51] and then eventually there's [46:52] inflammation, [46:53] uh and then it burns, and then then it's [46:55] uncomfortable. [46:56] Uh but then [46:58] So, that's like an acute bout of of [47:00] energy resistance. What happens with [47:02] exercise is once you recover, right? The [47:05] benefits of exercise don't happen during [47:07] the exercise, they happen after, during [47:09] the recovery. So, if you recover, now [47:11] you're you're the muscles are relaxing, [47:13] and you're resting, eventually you go, [47:16] you know, for you go to sleep. Uh it's [47:18] the in during the decrease in the [47:20] resistance, now the cell says, "Next [47:22] time this happens, I better be ready. [47:24] Like this was really uncomfortable. It [47:25] was too much energy shoved into a system [47:28] that couldn't take it. Right? So, I need [47:30] I'm going to make more mitochondria." [47:31] So, that That's what happens if you go [47:33] from being a sedentary couch potato, [47:35] right? To training for a marathon. You [47:38] can double the amount of mitochondria [47:40] you have in your muscles. [47:42] And that's the system feeling the the [47:44] rise in resistance, like I don't have [47:45] the capacity to flow that much energy, [47:47] and then [47:49] adapting for this for the next time. It [47:51] said, "Next time I'm going to be ready. [47:52] Let's make more mitochondria." So, [47:54] that's probably what where the benefits [47:56] of exercise come from. This the spiking [47:59] and and why stress is is not a bad thing [48:02] intrinsically, right? If you have a [48:04] spike of stress, it stimulates the [48:06] process the the the it stimulates the [48:08] body to put in place things that in the [48:11] long run makes you more efficient, [48:13] decreases your resistance. Then you can [48:14] go through life with with less [48:17] resistance. [48:18] >> Coming back to this gray hair thing. So, [48:20] if if we consider gray hair, my hair [48:23] going gray, [48:24] to be the last domino that fell. [48:26] So, like the symptom. [48:27] >> Yeah. [48:28] >> Then what is what are the what what is [48:29] the first domino? [48:30] >> Mhm. [48:31] >> And can you walk me through the sequence [48:32] of events? Because one would assume that [48:35] if I understand that sequence of events, [48:37] I can also understand how to then [48:38] reverse it. [48:39] >> Yeah. [48:39] >> How to kind of take I've got a couple of [48:40] gray hairs now. And I actually [48:42] anecdotally do think, weirdly now you've [48:44] said this, [48:45] that I have like gray hair flare-ups [48:48] where I'll go I'll, you know, go through [48:49] a couple of weeks or months of doing [48:50] something and I'll look in the mirror [48:52] and be like, "What? I have 12 now?" [48:54] I'm being generous there. There's more [48:55] like 25. [laughter] [48:56] I have I have 25 now. In terms of those [48:58] dominoes, the symptom is gray hair. What [49:00] is the first domino that that falls? And [49:02] what is the sequence of events that [49:04] leads to the gray hair in the follicle? [49:06] >> So, there's a finite energy budget. [49:08] >> Mhm. [49:08] >> And then what the organism does is it [49:10] allocates energy in different places, [49:11] like a business, right? You have this [49:13] budget, do I put more energy here? If do [49:15] I put, you know, more resources here? If [49:17] so, I need to take resources away from [49:19] here, right? So, as stress happens in [49:21] your life, it pulls energy away from [49:24] some of the things that keep you young. [49:25] Right? So, there's [49:27] there's a kind of a hierarchy of energy [49:29] needs in the body. Not everything can be [49:30] prioritized the same way. You know [49:32] Maslow's hierarchy of human needs? [49:34] >> Yeah. [49:34] >> Yeah? So, Maslow's insight was uh [49:37] >> Oh my god, I just freaked out. My hand [49:39] reached down and I just felt someone's [49:40] head. [49:41] It was just [49:42] I just [49:44] >> Acute stress response. [49:45] >> Yeah, I just [laughter] got Yeah, caught [49:47] off guard. Sorry. Maslow's hierarchy of [49:48] needs. [49:49] >> Yeah. [49:50] So, there's there's a hierarchy of [49:52] energy needs in the body that's works [49:54] similarly to Maslow's hierarchy of [49:56] needs. Maslow said, "Uh for a human [49:58] being to be fully realized, first, you [50:01] need to have safety and food and shelter [50:03] secured, right?" Once you have this and [50:05] you feel this is kind of covered in your [50:07] life, then you can start to think about [50:08] building relationships with other [50:10] people, right? Loving relationships. [50:12] Once you have this settled, now you can [50:14] start to think about building your [50:15] skills, right? Like becoming really good [50:17] at something. Uh and then once you have [50:19] this covered, now you can devote energy [50:22] to the more frivolous things like [50:23] spirituality, what do you call [50:25] self-actualization, and kind of becoming [50:27] your best self, flourishing. Uh so, he [50:29] saw this very much as a this is this [50:32] needs to be covered uh and when things [50:35] get really hard and there are [50:36] constraints on your life, the first [50:38] thing to go is the top of the pyramid, [50:39] right? Your meditation practice or the [50:41] long-term type like I'm going to be a [50:43] better person. No, like I need to make [50:45] sure we can put food on the table next [50:48] week, right? Um so, this hierarchy of of [50:51] human needs, I think, aligns with [50:53] hierarchy of [50:55] uh of energy needs in the body. And as [50:57] far as the importance of hair color [51:00] goes, it's pretty low on the hierarchy. [51:03] So, as the body gets older and you have [51:06] more and more cells in the body that [51:08] start to [51:10] uh be less efficient, right? Their [51:11] mitochondria are working a little, you [51:13] know, less efficiently and [51:16] uh and then there there's more [51:17] inflammation in the body that's costing [51:18] energy, and uh [51:21] there's [51:22] more worries about, you know, [51:24] professional obligations and all these [51:25] things kind of stack up and steal energy [51:27] away from the things that are there. We [51:29] call them growth, maintenance, and [51:31] repair. These are like the anti-aging [51:34] processes in in the body. And those need [51:36] energy, but they're not as important as [51:39] you know, facing the stressor that you [51:41] think is life-threatening now. [51:42] >> So, if there's a lion chasing me, my [51:44] body's going to commit all the the [51:46] energy I have to getting away from this [51:48] lion and it might say, "Listen, Stephen, [51:51] we're not going to repair the skin next [51:53] to your eyes. You're going to get a [51:55] couple more wrinkles and we're not going [51:56] to make your We're not going to commit [51:58] energy to making sure your follicles in [52:00] your hair produce black pigment or [52:02] whatever." [52:03] >> Exactly. [52:03] >> So, I would then look aged. I would look [52:05] old older. [52:07] >> But, that's because all of my energy's [52:08] been going to something else which my [52:09] body considers to be a higher priority. [52:11] >> Correct. [52:11] >> Which also brings me to, I guess, [52:14] the famous [52:15] what we always talk about with [52:16] presidents because presidents go into [52:18] office often with dark hair. [52:19] >> Yeah. [52:20] >> And they come out with gray hair. And [52:22] usually one does not age that quickly in [52:24] 8 years. We see the same in the Premier [52:25] League with football managers. [52:26] >> Mhm. [52:27] >> They walk in on that first day, they [52:28] look very sprightly and energetic. And [52:30] uh 2 years later, they have have gray [52:32] hair, bags under their eyes, wrinkles, [52:34] and they look like they've aged 10 [52:35] years. [52:36] >> Yeah. [52:36] >> So, you're telling me actually that the [52:38] the real secret to anti-aging, if there [52:40] was one, [52:41] is this. [52:42] >> Is the proper allocation of energy. [52:48] So, if you don't waste energy stressing [52:51] out about the future and the past, [52:53] and you can spend more time in the [52:55] moment not being overly reactive to [52:58] things, [52:59] which uh is kind of a a lifelong effort, [53:02] then more of that precious energy can go [53:04] towards anti-aging. [53:05] >> Can I also pull more energy in the top? [53:07] Like, can I just if I get more energy, [53:10] does that mean that there's less [53:12] likelihood that we're going to run out [53:13] of energy when it comes to my hair [53:15] follicles being black or gray? [53:17] >> Yeah. The thing is it doesn't look like [53:19] we have that flexibility. Like, if you [53:20] want to have more energy and you want to [53:21] age more slowly, uh eating more does is [53:25] not going to give you more energy. [53:26] >> So, is there anything I can do to have [53:28] more energy available? [53:30] >> Uh you you can become more efficient. [53:32] >> I can become more efficient, but I can't [53:33] put more in. [53:34] >> No. [53:35] >> Hm. [53:36] And how does one become more efficient [53:37] then? You know, you said about stress. [53:39] Okay, I'm going to live a less stressed [53:41] life. [53:41] >> Yeah. [53:42] It seems like [53:43] there's a few things that we know makes [53:45] organism more efficient. One is [53:46] exercising. [53:48] >> Okay. [53:48] >> Right? Because when you exercise again, [53:50] you're increasing energy resistance, [53:51] uncomfortable, potentially you're [53:53] damaging things, right? Because you're [53:55] you're uh [53:56] increasing what we call dissipated [53:58] losses, right? [54:00] Oxidative stress and all sorts of things [54:01] happen during the [54:05] during the exercise, but then when you [54:06] recover, now the body's like, "Next time [54:09] this happens, I'm going to be ready." [54:10] And [54:12] the process of getting ready to to go [54:16] through a high resistance, you know, gym [54:18] session is that you make more [54:20] mitochondria, right? Your muscles get [54:22] bigger and stronger, and your heart [54:24] becomes more efficient, and your [54:26] arteries, you know, become more become [54:28] softer, and you develop, you know, the [54:31] the confidence that you can do this [54:33] well. Um and then it becomes rewarding. [54:36] You you know, it becomes enjoyable. So, [54:37] all of these things, now that you're off [54:40] the gym session, [54:41] >> Mhm. [clears throat] [54:41] >> right? You spent an hour in the gym [54:43] telling the body, "This is what we're [54:45] going to do in the future." And then the [54:46] body's like, "Okay, I'm going to get [54:47] ready." [54:48] If there's a fixed energy budget, the [54:50] only way really to to get ready for this [54:52] is to become more efficient. So, by [54:54] having more mitochondria, by having a [54:56] more fluid um and kind of flexible [54:59] cardiovascular system, and uh by putting [55:02] in place all of these changes, [55:03] decreasing inflammation, right? All of [55:06] these things make energy more energy [55:07] available. It decreases the energetic [55:09] cost of doing the activity, [55:11] and then there's more energy available [55:13] for anti-aging, growth, maintenance, and [55:15] repair, vitality. So, I suspect that's [55:18] why you burn more energy when you [55:19] exercise, but you feel like you have [55:21] more. And you don't actually have more. [55:23] The feeling that you have more energy is [55:25] simply energy's flowing more smoothly [55:28] through this thing. [55:29] >> It's more efficient. I've got more [55:30] mitochondria. [55:31] >> Yeah. [55:31] >> Okay. [55:32] What what else? [55:33] What about food? You know, I've I've [55:35] uh I've got coffee here. I've got some [55:39] alcohol here. I've got the sugar. [55:45] What I consume, how does that impact the [55:47] efficiency of the energy flowing through [55:50] my body? [55:50] >> Yeah, great question. Uh alcohol, what [55:53] we know about alcohol is that [55:56] as we talked about earlier, nothing is [55:58] free in biology, right? So, if you put [56:00] something in the body that shouldn't be [56:01] there, effectively a toxin like ethanol, [56:04] which is what's in there, uh it's going [56:06] to cost energy to get rid of it. [56:08] So, there are detoxification systems in [56:10] your liver, primarily, that takes [56:13] alcohol, breaks down the molecule, and [56:15] then you can pee it out, right? Or [56:16] metabolize it for energy even. Uh so, [56:19] there's a bunch of of energy in ethanol, [56:22] but when you take alcohol, it doesn't [56:24] give you more energy. If anything, the [56:26] next day you feel like because what [56:28] happens is you you waste energy [56:31] degrading the alcohol, right? And even [56:33] though it's a net plus, you're putting [56:35] calories in the machine in the body, uh [56:38] but uh [56:39] what ends up happening is you burn [56:41] energy getting rid of it. So, there's a [56:43] cool study where they brought people in, [56:45] they gave them a bunch of alcohol, they [56:47] they're, you know, effectively [56:49] effectively drunk, and then they [56:50] measured how much energy are they [56:51] burning. And you can do those kind of [56:53] studies, we've we've done those studies [56:55] in the lab. In a small room, you put a [56:57] human being, and then you just measure [56:58] how much energy does it cost for them to [57:00] stay alive, right? And you ask them to [57:02] not do too much in the smaller room, [57:04] they're just sitting down reading a [57:05] book. Um and then then you can ask them, [57:08] "Okay, now drink this alcohol." And then [57:10] you measure, you look you're minute by [57:11] minute, they drink the alcohol, and then [57:13] you start to see, "Woo, it climbs up." [57:15] So, the alcohol, even though you feel [57:16] relaxed, inside, under the hood, the [57:19] body's like burning energy to get rid of [57:21] the alcohol. And other toxins probably [57:23] work the same way, you know, pesticides [57:25] or kind of the things we eat that we [57:27] shouldn't be eating. The reason why [57:29] those things might be bad for our health [57:30] maybe because they they steal energy [57:33] away from, you know, a growing body, for [57:35] example. [57:36] Uh there's good data in uh South [57:38] America. Children who are exposed to [57:40] more pathogens, right? There's no [57:42] sanitation, they walk barefoot, they [57:44] they eat stuff, you know, that's not [57:45] clean, then um they have more pathogens [57:48] uh in their gut, right? There's there's [57:50] more [57:51] uh viruses, bacteria, and parasites. Uh [57:54] it costs energy to fight those things [57:56] off. [57:58] That's why you feel like when [57:59] you're burning when when you're fighting [58:01] a flu, for example. Right? Your immune [58:03] system your immune cells are like, [58:05] "Whoa, you know, virus, like COVID or, [58:07] you know, any, you know, seasonal flu [58:09] virus." The immune system goes into [58:11] overdrive to kill this virus and get rid [58:14] of it. And then that the immune system [58:16] steals energy away from the brain, from [58:19] from your mind, and then you feel like, [58:21] "Oh, everything is so difficult. You [58:22] just want to be in bed, over covers, you [58:24] feel cold," which is strategy to [58:26] basically save energy. So, all of the [58:29] what's called sickness behavior, right? [58:31] All of those features of your behavior, [58:32] you become antisocial, right? Your skin [58:35] is more sensitive, so you avoid moving. [58:37] Uh [58:38] it's like all of those features can be [58:39] understood as energy conservation [58:42] strategies. [58:43] >> Stressors, [58:44] alcohol, parasites, [58:47] all kind of have this increased the the [58:49] cost of living. Uh and then because [58:52] there's a cap on your energy budget, uh [58:54] then that energy needs to be coming from [58:57] somewhere else. [58:58] >> And if you're in those states for long [58:59] periods of time, you're in a chronic [59:01] state of um I guess like energetic [59:03] distraction is the way I think about it. [59:05] >> That's that's a cool way to think about [59:06] it. [59:06] >> I was thinking about it. I was thinking [59:07] about it like if you you [59:09] my body has an army of 10 soldiers. [59:12] And usually those 10 soldiers are like [59:14] at work doing the things that I need to [59:16] do to survive and grow and flourish. And [59:18] then when I have one of these, I don't [59:20] know, some sort of toxic substance comes [59:22] into my body, [59:24] you're basically saying that four of [59:25] those soldiers have to be reassigned to [59:28] go deal with this invader. [59:30] And so now I only have six that are [59:32] focused on [59:33] everything I need to flourish, which is [59:35] why I I probably feel [59:36] >> Mhm. Sometimes. [59:37] >> Yeah, exactly. [59:37] >> Um And what if if there's only six [59:39] working on [59:41] my you know, fundamental requirements to [59:44] flourish, [59:45] then [59:46] some of those things are going to have [59:47] to give way, and I might end up with [59:49] gray hair, and I might end up with [59:51] wrinkles, or [59:52] maybe my brain won't function the same. [59:54] Maybe [59:55] >> Yeah. [59:55] >> disease [59:56] >> Yeah. [59:56] >> You know, my immune system won't be [59:57] taken care of in the same way. [59:58] >> Yeah. Immune system won't be there [60:00] clearing the cancerous cells, for [60:01] example. Um and the repair processes [60:04] that happen all the time in the brain, [60:06] right? Clearing out proteins that you [60:08] don't need, uh repairing [60:10] damage DNA that's get gotten damaged, or [60:13] making new mitochondria. All of these [60:16] processes happen like every day. Every [60:18] day you go through a little phase of [60:20] getting rid of the things that don't [60:21] work too well to make [60:23] more of the things that work well, like [60:24] mitochondria. Quality control it's [60:26] called. Right? So, there's this quality [60:27] control cycle. Old mitochondria that [60:29] don't work too too well anymore, they [60:31] get degraded. It's called mitophagy. [60:34] Autophagy is self-eating. Mitophagy is [60:37] self-eating of the mitochondria. [60:39] So, when a cell, for example, is is [60:41] hungry, if you pull energy away from the [60:44] cell, the cell goes into a mode like, [60:46] "Oh I might run out of energy. I [60:48] need to be really efficient here. So, [60:50] let's get rid of those mitochondria that [60:52] aren't really contributing their share, [60:54] uh and then I'll have just the best [60:56] functioning mitochondria." And then when [60:58] food comes back on board, the cell makes [60:59] more of the better ones. [61:01] >> It made me think of Alzheimer's and [61:02] dementia, weirdly, because [61:05] I don't really know a huge amount about [61:07] Alzheimer's and dementia, but I know [61:08] that something clearly goes wrong in the [61:10] body that produces these plaques. [61:11] >> Mhm. [61:12] >> And you know, you often hear that [61:14] there's lots of things we consume or do [61:15] that increase our probability of getting [61:17] Alzheimer's and dementia. [61:18] >> Yeah. [61:18] >> So, is that at all linked to the same [61:20] sort of like energy distraction? [61:21] >> Yes. It's been long believed that the [61:22] plaque, right, that you've heard about, [61:25] amyloid plaques and tau tangles, and [61:28] there's kind of this idea that the brain [61:30] accumulates proteins, and it's those [61:31] proteins that cause Alzheimer's. [61:34] I think that's what most people have [61:35] heard and what most people believe [61:37] because it came from, you know, white [61:38] coat-wearing scientists and [61:40] university professors. [61:42] Um that is not the truth. [61:44] And what is more true is and and and [61:48] let me just say why it's not the truth. [61:50] You can have people in their 60s and [61:52] their 70s and their 80s, zero protein [61:55] deposit in the brain. [61:57] We can image this now pretty well with [61:58] neuroimaging. You can have people zero [62:00] protein deposit in the brain, and they [62:02] have full-blown Alzheimer's and [62:04] dementia. [62:05] And you have the other extreme, [62:07] people with loads of [62:10] amyloid plaques and tau tangles, [62:13] completely normal cognition. [62:16] So, those extremes really tell us this [62:19] hypothesis, this amyloid, you know, [62:21] protein aggregates in the brain as a [62:23] driver of dementia and [62:25] neurodegeneration, is not correct. [62:28] Uh what we know happens energetically in [62:30] the brain is that initially, in the [62:32] early stages of Alzheimer's, there's [62:34] kind of an increase in energy demand. [62:36] And there there are specific brain [62:38] regions that tend to be more affected in [62:40] some people, not all not all people tend [62:42] to have those protein deposits. Those [62:44] regions start start to burn more energy. [62:46] This is early phase, right? And then at [62:48] this point, probably this is the brain [62:50] trying to cope. [62:52] Right? It's like something's not working [62:54] great, but it's working harder. [62:56] >> Like like with the gray hair. [62:57] >> Yeah, exactly. And then [63:00] over time, the those brain regions [63:02] become hypometabolic, and then that's [63:04] when you start to have symptoms. [63:05] >> What does that mean? [63:06] >> That's that's when people start to have [63:08] memory issues and [63:09] >> You said hypometabolic. [63:10] >> Hypometabolic, yes. This is [63:12] hypermetabolic [63:14] is kind of this energy distraction you [63:16] were talking about. Like, there's more [63:17] energy being burned here. Normal [63:20] metabolic is, you know, you use 100 [63:22] units of energy for the brain and this [63:24] Let's say this brain region, 100 units [63:26] of energy is what this brain region [63:27] needs to just sustain normal healthy [63:30] functions. Uh if there's a problem with [63:33] the mitochondria or there's a problem [63:35] with, you know, the cell communicating [63:37] with the synapses, right? Cells talk to [63:39] each other through these things called [63:40] synapses. Uh if there's a problem, now [63:42] the the that part of the brain is going [63:44] to need to do more work [63:46] to compensate. Uh and then we know [63:49] something happens with neurodegeneration [63:51] and Alzheimer's is inflammation, [63:53] neuroinflammation. That basically means [63:56] there's some cells in the brain that are [63:58] trying to heal the brain. [64:00] And part of that healing process is kind [64:02] of a stress response locally. And then [64:05] that stress response leads to the [64:06] secretion of little proteins we call [64:08] cytokines. And then it's basically those [64:10] cells saying, "Something's wrong. [64:12] We need to fix this." So, that costs [64:14] energy. So, you have those cells that [64:16] get activated, they they secrete those [64:18] proteins to say, "Please help, you know, [64:20] there we need to reestablish [64:22] homeostasis. We need to reestablish [64:24] normal healthy balance." But that [64:26] process of reestablishing, of healing, [64:28] costs energy. Just like when you're post [64:30] exercise, your muscle invest energy to [64:32] to become stronger. So, in that kind of [64:35] early phase, hypermetabolism [64:38] is when you spend more energy, hyper [64:41] function, some people have called it. [64:43] And then eventually it seems like those [64:46] brain regions get tired out and then [64:48] they they become hypometabolic, so they [64:50] burn less energy. So, if you look at the [64:52] brain of someone with Alzheimer's, [64:54] there are these regions that are that [64:56] burn less energy. And energy is so [64:58] central to everything, including [65:00] cognition, right? In order to have an [65:02] idea and to be conscious of that idea, [65:04] you need to burn energy. [65:06] So, the the brain kind of [65:08] burning less energy in later stages kind [65:10] of reflects this lack of function. You [65:13] know, the the it's difficult to [65:15] remember, you know, old memories. It's [65:17] it's remember it's difficult to to make [65:19] associations. It becomes difficult to [65:21] plan in the future [65:23] and to regulate your emotions and you [65:25] know, a lot of people with dementia end [65:27] up having kind of mood issues. They [65:29] become really depressed and it [65:31] >> Is this is this what they call it type [65:32] three diabetes? Cuz I've just heard that [65:34] phrase quite a lot recently. [65:35] >> Yeah. And [65:37] So, my hunch is that Alzheimer's and [65:41] dementia more generally is a disorder of [65:44] energy. [65:45] And [65:46] specifically, it's a disorder of you [65:48] know, increased energy resistance. [65:51] So, there's type three diabetes comes [65:53] from the fact that when the brain gets [65:57] sick, right? And symptoms of dementia [65:59] start to appear like loss of memory and [66:02] mood and depression and that [66:03] constellation of symptoms when you look [66:05] in the brain, it's burning less energy. [66:07] But, it's also harder for glucose to get [66:09] inside the brain. [66:11] >> It's less efficient. [66:12] >> It's so there's yes, a loss of [66:14] efficiency but an increased resistance, [66:17] right? Or a decrease in conductance for [66:19] energy for glucose for example, to get [66:21] inside the brain to be processed and and [66:23] be used. [66:24] >> And why might that be? [66:25] >> Because you're pushing too much glucose [66:27] on the system. [66:28] >> Oh, okay. [66:28] >> If you load up the system all the time [66:31] with with glucose, with sugar in the [66:34] blood and glycemia is high, you have [66:35] diabetes perhaps, this is all the time [66:38] like pressure pushing energy onto this [66:40] the system that's like really delicate [66:42] and it's not like a jacking the the [66:44] voltage on your lamp that eventually, [66:46] you know, is going to catch fire. [66:48] We are a slow burning fire. Right? Like [66:50] the inside of our cells, you have the [66:52] electrons flowing and when there's [66:54] sparks flying, it damages the [66:56] mitochondria. It damages this, damages [66:57] that. And that increases that's what [66:59] aging is. Aging the the most basic [67:02] mechanism of aging [67:04] including brain aging that leads to [67:05] Alzheimer's is the accumulation of [67:07] little damage, little mutations, little [67:09] defects, little imperfections. And as [67:13] the imperfections accumulate, the system [67:15] becomes less efficient. Insulin [67:16] resistance basically and diabetes refers [67:18] to the fact that muscles, but also the [67:20] brain can [67:22] has the capacity to say, I I can't [67:24] anymore. Like glucose, too much for me, [67:27] too much resistance, too much you know, [67:29] damage that I that I'm exposed to. So, [67:31] if you're a muscle cell and you want to [67:33] protect yourself against this excess [67:35] energy pressure, right? From the [67:37] glucose, from the from the electrons, [67:39] you can become [67:40] insensitive or resistant to insulin. So, [67:43] then you you take the the receptors that [67:45] are sitting on top of the surface of the [67:47] cell, [67:48] you pull those out, right? So, then the [67:50] cell no longer is sensitive to insulin. [67:53] So, then the body's like, "Whoa, like [67:54] glucose is way high. What do you A [67:56] normal healthy body releases insulin, [67:59] floods the blood, insulin goes to the [68:01] surface of of your muscles and then [68:04] says, 'Take in the glucose because [68:06] there's too much glucose in the blood. [68:07] It's we're going to damage the brain, [68:08] we're going to damage the eyes, we're [68:09] going to damage the nerves. So, muscle, [68:11] please take in the glucose.' But when [68:13] the muscle is overwhelmed and the [68:15] mitochondria are starting to be [68:17] at capacity in terms of how much energy [68:20] they can [68:21] resist and and and flow, then they shut [68:24] down the valves, right? So, the muscle [68:25] cells become insulin resistant and then [68:27] glucose intolerant. And that protects [68:29] the mitochondria in the muscle cells, [68:32] but then gluco blood glucose starts to [68:34] increase. So, the next step in this [68:36] cascade is well, if there's too much [68:39] energy in circulation, too much sugar, [68:40] too much fat, what what can we do with [68:42] this? And that's where fat stores, you [68:45] know, adiposity [68:47] comes in. So, obesity [68:49] is [68:50] a protection mechanism against [68:52] [clears throat] excess energy [68:53] resistance. [68:54] >> One way to think about this hypothesis [68:56] that [68:58] dementia, Alzheimer's, is linked to an [69:01] overflow of glucose, let's say, is to [69:05] look at other civilizations or um I [69:08] don't know, tribes, the Hadza tribe in [69:10] Africa, who don't have a lot of glucose. [69:12] Do they still get Alzheimer's and [69:13] dementia? [69:14] >> I don't know the the literature on this, [69:16] uh but it's clear that people who if you [69:18] if we look at what [69:20] makes you more likely to have [69:21] Alzheimer's, uh what makes you less [69:23] likely to have Alzheimer's, all the [69:25] things that make you more likely to have [69:26] Alzheimer's [69:27] contribute to increasing [69:29] this energy resistance, right? Too much [69:32] sugar in the blood. Diabetes, [69:34] physical inactivity, [69:36] right? If you don't move, energy doesn't [69:38] flow through your mitochondria. So, it [69:39] just stacks up, accumulates, and and the [69:41] things that protects the brain, protects [69:44] you against Alzheimer's and dementia, [69:46] are things that let energy flow. [69:47] Physical activity, uh not eating too [69:50] much, especially not eating too much [69:51] sugar, [69:52] uh and and then ketones, there's new, [69:55] you know, data now showing that ketones [69:57] can uh you know, enter the brain and be [69:59] metabolized more easily, and can even [70:03] kind of improve cognition. And the [70:04] ketogenic diet, which I know you've [70:06] tried, uh many people report more energy [70:09] on the ketogenic diet. It's not because [70:11] you eat more calories, it's because [70:13] those uh electrons that are stuck on [70:15] ketones, instead of being stuck on [70:17] glucose, can flow more more easily. And [70:20] the those ketones are made by [70:22] mitochondria in your liver. This is a [70:23] really beautiful story of this the [70:25] sociality of mitochondria in the [70:27] organism. The liver mitochondria is [70:29] where ketones are made. If you eat eat [70:31] fat, right? Avocados and oil and and [70:34] meat and uh butter and uh those fat [70:37] molecules and go in the liver, and then [70:39] the mitochondria in the liver take those [70:41] fat, transform them into ketones, and [70:42] then put the ketones into the blood. The [70:44] kidneys also do a little bit of this. [70:45] And then the ketones go to the brain, [70:47] and then they feed the mitochondria in [70:49] the brain. So, you have mitochondria in [70:50] the liver talking and feeding [70:52] mitochondria in the brain. And the path [70:55] for a ketone to go from blood to [70:57] mitochondria is much shorter in terms of [70:59] number of enzymes, number of resistors, [71:02] if you want to think about it [71:03] energetically, [71:04] than for glucose. That path is very [71:06] long. The ketone path is much shorter. [71:09] >> I just want to make sure on that point [71:10] that I don't misunderstand because, you [71:12] know, it sound it could have sounded [71:13] like you're saying that too much energy [71:15] might cause Alzheimer's, but actually [71:17] you're saying you're not saying cuz I [71:18] think of ketones as energy and I I'm I'm [71:20] shutting, you know, ketones all the [71:22] time. I don't want to flood my brain [71:24] with energy so that, you know, it [71:25] malfunctions, gets Alzheimer's. [71:28] >> It's it For some reason, it's really [71:30] hard to overwhelm the brain [71:32] >> with ketones. [71:32] >> And with with ketones or overwhelm the [71:34] body if you eat fat. Like it's it's very [71:37] easy to feel like I'm full. [71:39] I've had, you know, a good enough meal. [71:41] If you bring sugar into the picture and [71:43] you mix sugar and fat, now things like [71:45] taste so good and there's like an extra [71:47] reward and a lot of people eat for [71:48] different reasons, not just because [71:49] they're hungry. [71:50] >> [laughter] [71:51] >> That's because it's so rewarding to eat [71:53] something fatty and sugary. [71:54] Uh especially the the sugar part, then [71:56] you you lose regulation and that's why I [71:59] think the GLP-1 drugs are are so [72:00] powerful because they they address the [72:02] problem where it starts. Like how much [72:05] food are you putting into the system? [72:07] >> Yeah. [72:08] I did look at the stats there on the [72:10] tribes in Africa and it says when [72:11] researchers study indigenous groups such [72:13] as the Hadza hunter-gatherer tribe in [72:16] Tanzania or rural [72:19] agrarian populations like the Yoruba, [72:22] they find that Alzheimer's and vascular [72:23] dementia are exceptionally rare. [72:26] >> Mhm. [72:27] >> Which again means that it points to [72:30] Western diets. [72:31] >> Mhm. [72:31] >> Western diet, Western [72:33] >> lifestyles. [72:33] >> Yeah, [72:34] behavior. Yeah, these people move all [72:36] the time [72:37] um and they don't eat too much. [72:40] Um most of them don't need to kind of [72:42] rely on their fat capacitor. [72:45] They don't have excess energy to just [72:47] store away. And for for some people, [72:49] there's congenital leanness, right? Like [72:51] you're you're born lean and you're going [72:53] to like you can't put on fat. If you eat [72:55] too much, the the high sugar or high fat [72:58] just accumulates in the blood and then [72:59] it it gets lodged in ectopic ways. So, [73:02] in the [73:03] it gets lodged in the muscle or in the [73:04] liver or in the brain [73:06] um and and then that causes damage [73:09] because of you know this like excess [73:11] energy pressure and then the system [73:12] overheats. [73:13] >> It's skinny fat. [73:14] >> Skinny fat, yeah. [73:15] >> No, it stores it in your around your [73:17] livers and stuff. What's What's that [73:18] called? That fat inside you? [73:19] >> Visceral. [73:19] >> Visceral fat. [73:20] >> Yeah. And the visceral fat is linked to [73:22] increased inflammation and it's linked [73:24] to a bunch of diseases, but this is just [73:26] a symptom. Like the increased fat and I [73:28] think the reason why obesity in general [73:30] we say obesity is bad is because obesity [73:33] reflects a deeper state, a more [73:36] important state. [73:37] With the which is this increased energy [73:39] resistance. [73:40] Like there's too much energy in the [73:41] system and the system can't flow it. [73:44] Like the mitochondria can't keep up. So, [73:46] to protect themselves, [73:47] they store that and store that away and [73:50] and then [73:51] then then you become obese. [73:53] >> If you're going to take tips from anyone [73:54] on how to stay focused and high energy, [73:56] let it be from the greatest [73:58] pound-for-pound fighter of all time, the [74:00] guy they call Johnny "Bones" Jones. [74:03] Johnny is a co-owner of our show sponsor [74:05] KetoMojo IQ alongside myself. And when [74:07] you hear why, it probably makes a lot of [74:09] sense to you. When he's training or [74:11] fighting, he needs high-quality steady [74:13] laser-like focus without the crash. And [74:15] KetoMojo give him exactly that. And [74:17] unlike caffeine, KetoMojo don't [74:19] stimulate your brain, they fuel it. So, [74:21] your brain actually loves ketones [74:23] because it runs on them much more [74:25] efficiently than anything else. And [74:26] right now KetoMojo IQ is giving away [74:28] one-of-a-kind pair signed MMA gloves [74:32] from Jon Jones himself and the upcoming [74:34] gold medal wrestler he's coaching called [74:36] Gable Steveson. 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So, if you want to try [75:16] coffee from Honduras, or Panama, or [75:19] England, or the USA, or Italy, or [75:20] France, you can then order that [75:22] particular coffee on subscription to [75:24] come to your house. No machines [75:26] necessary. Not only are they our [75:28] sponsor, and a company I have invested [75:30] in, it is the only coffee I drink now. [75:32] Actually, this morning when I came to [75:34] work, I put Cometeer one of these red [75:36] walls, which is another one of my [75:37] favorites from France. So, if you want [75:38] to try your own Cometeer, [75:41] they reserved a certain amount for Diary [75:43] of a CEO listeners. Just go to [75:45] cometeer.com/doac, [75:49] and you can get $20 off if you use the [75:52] code doac at checkout. [75:55] So, on this point of food then, fasting, [75:57] autophagy, all these words that I've [75:59] heard. If you were giving me advice on [76:00] everything you know about how to create [76:02] a body that is very, very efficient in [76:05] how I deal with the energy that I have, [76:07] what advice would you give me as it [76:09] relates to eating? [76:10] >> Develop that awareness of what your body [76:12] needs. So, when I think about how I eat, [76:14] I don't think about, you know, my [76:16] weight, or my body. I think about how am [76:18] I feeling, and do I need more food, [76:21] right? Am I like depleted, or uh am I [76:24] tired and exhausted because there's too [76:26] much food on board, and my organism is [76:28] like struggling to keep up with this [76:30] excess like friction, or excess, you [76:32] know, energy pressure and on my brain, [76:34] on my on my mitochondria. So, I think [76:36] about it from the perspective of my [76:38] mitochondria. Uh what do my mitochondria [76:40] need? [76:42] And in general, [76:44] it's much harder to [76:46] you know deplete the mitochondria, like [76:48] not eating too much. [76:49] So, if you're thinking about that, okay, [76:51] there's this food there. Do I snack? Do [76:53] I not snack? [76:56] Generally, eating too much there there [76:58] clear consequences to this. Like it [76:59] increases the resistance or the friction [77:01] in in your mitochondria. Not eating [77:03] enough is typically innocuous for most [77:05] people. [77:06] >> Because we we have stores, don't we? Of [77:08] glycogen and we have stores of glucose [77:10] in our body, in our muscles, so if we [77:11] were running low, then our our body can [77:13] go get some fat, metabolize it. [77:15] >> Exactly. Make ketones. [77:16] >> Make ketones. [77:17] >> Yeah. Yeah, the [77:19] most people have enough energy on board, [77:21] right? In the form of fat, some glycogen [77:23] in your muscles and in your liver [77:25] to live at least a month. [77:27] >> I mean, I'm I'm a big big fan of [77:29] survival documentaries. And one of the [77:31] most remarkable things you see in [77:32] survival documentaries, I'm even [77:33] thinking about some that I've watched, [77:34] is people can survive for seemingly [77:37] months without eating anything. [77:39] >> Yeah. [77:40] >> And they can't survive very long without [77:41] water, yeah, but they can survive for [77:43] months without eating anything. [77:45] Um because their body will start to kind [77:47] of go into its reserves and break down [77:49] muscle and all these other things. [77:50] >> Yeah. [77:51] Yeah, the record is [77:53] world record for not eating is over 300 [77:55] days. [77:56] >> Wow. [77:56] >> Irish man. [77:58] Um [77:59] and he lost I forget the exact numbers. [78:02] 250 lbs, 300 lbs. [78:04] >> What does this say about hunger? [78:06] And also, what does it say about this [78:08] society we live in where we have so many [78:10] We have like five meals a Some people [78:11] basically just eat from morning till [78:12] night, you know? [78:13] >> Yeah. I [78:14] I think a lot of us [78:16] eat not because we're hungry. I think a [78:19] lot of us have learned to eat [78:22] to to subserve some other need. And [78:25] eating is quite rewarding. It taps into [78:27] the same systems, you know, as gambling [78:28] and um kind of connecting with other [78:31] human beings. So, [78:33] we know some people eat emotionally, [78:34] right? When when stressed out, they they [78:36] they eat more, and [78:38] so I [clears throat] think hunger is is [78:40] something to be skeptical of because [78:43] there are many pathways that I think [78:45] kind of converge on hunger. Like if you [78:47] feel sad, you feel like bored, [78:50] hunger will kind of get you out of [78:51] boredom because of the salt, because of [78:53] the especially if you had salty, sugary [78:55] things around. [78:57] It's a rewarding thing that will get you [78:58] out of uncomfortable other uncomfortable [79:00] sensations. I think most of us overeat. [79:03] That's [79:04] um [79:05] a good general assumption to make. [79:06] You're probably overeating. [79:08] >> I think I probably am. [79:09] >> Um it's harder to overeat if you [79:11] restrict your eating window, right? And [79:13] is that works really well for some [79:15] people. [79:16] Um like eating, for example, a very [79:19] severe kind of window would be 2:00 p.m. [79:21] to 6:00 p.m. Right, so you eat for 4 [79:23] hours, and you kind of put this around [79:25] dinner time so you can be social with [79:26] your partner or something like that. Uh [79:28] that tends to work well for a lot of [79:30] people who have been in the habit of [79:32] overeating. Um and my dad, you know, [79:35] still thinks to to this day he's 69 now, [79:38] um that breakfast is the most important [79:40] meal of the day. That's what he learned [79:41] when he was a kid, and he wants to [79:44] believe that this is true. [79:45] I don't think it's true for most people, [79:47] and especially if you're in your 60s, [79:49] 70s, right? Like the metabolism changes, [79:52] and if you're always eating, you the [79:55] body never goes into the state of I must [79:57] be efficient, right? And then if you go [79:59] into that state of I must be efficient, [80:01] you accumulate poorly functioning [80:02] mitochondria, and then there's more [80:04] friction, you know, in in your whole [80:06] body, there's more inflammation, which [80:08] is a signal of that energy friction or [80:09] resistance. [80:10] And then you don't feel as good, right? [80:12] You don't feel you have as much energy. [80:14] So many people who go from eating three [80:16] meals a day plus or minus snacks to like [80:19] intermittent fasting, they just say, [80:21] "I'm going to eat whatever I want, [80:22] however much I want, but just in those 4 [80:25] hours or 6 hours." Most of those people [80:27] have a lot more energy. They experience, [80:30] right, that they have more energy. It's [80:31] not because there's more energy in their [80:32] body. If anything, they're putting fewer [80:34] calories in the body, but the way energy [80:37] flows now, it flows more efficiently. [80:39] And we don't perceive the amount of [80:41] energy, we perceive the flow energy or [80:43] the transformation of energy. [80:45] >> I was just reading the other day that it [80:46] says that this idea that breakfast is [80:48] the most important meal of the day came [80:51] from an advertising campaign [80:53] that was designed to sell cereal and [80:55] bacon. [80:58] Um before the industrial revolution, [81:00] breakfast wasn't a heavily scrutinized [81:02] meal. [81:03] People often just ate whatever was left [81:06] over from the night before or they ate a [81:07] quick heavy meal before going out to do [81:09] physical farm labor. But as people moved [81:11] into cities and took sedentary office [81:13] jobs, those heavy greasy breakfasts [81:15] started causing widespread indigestion. [81:20] Indigestion? Enter [81:22] Harvey Kellogg's. [81:24] Yes, that Kellogg's. He ran a famous [81:27] health sanitarium and believed that a [81:29] clean, light, grain-based diet would [81:32] cure indigestion and improve overall [81:34] health. He co-invented cornflakes and he [81:37] and other cereal pioneers pushed the [81:39] narrative that a healthy, cold cereal [81:42] breakfast was essential for a productive [81:45] day and your dad bought it hook, line [81:47] and sinker. [81:47] >> Yep. I mean, I lied to you, but then [81:49] >> Everybody did. [81:49] >> And and I did until recently, until I [81:52] started to like feel into this. I would [81:54] have this big cereal bowl of cereals, [81:56] that's how I grew up as well. And then I [81:58] would feel like this low, like this [82:00] um you know, low energy. And I think now [82:03] I understand why because I was [82:04] overloading my system with way too much [82:07] kind of rapidly available sugary energy [82:09] that I didn't need. Uh and then the body [82:11] needs to find a way to handle this. [82:13] Either you get fat, which I can't do, so [82:16] then it goes kind of to my brain and [82:17] then makes me feel lousy. [82:18] >> So, on this point then, just to close [82:20] off on this diet question, if I want [82:22] [clears throat] to feel really, really [82:23] optimal on a given day, I probably do [82:26] want a smaller eating window and I [82:28] probably want to eat just what I need, [82:30] and I want to not overeat. I don't want [82:32] to under eat, but I don't want to over [82:33] eat. [82:33] >> If you under eat, you're going to pick [82:35] it up tomorrow. [82:36] >> I'll pick it up tomorrow anyway, so I'll [82:37] be fine tomorrow. But, the worst thing [82:39] is overeating today, which is going to [82:40] impact my performance today. [82:41] >> Correct. And food is one [82:44] thing that influences [82:46] where energy goes in the body, how it [82:48] flows. Um [82:50] and just maybe to close the loop on that [82:52] example, like when you're sick and [82:54] you're fighting an infection [82:55] >> Yeah. [82:55] >> I had a a beautiful opportunity to [82:58] understand not just under understand to [83:00] experience this one day. It was New [83:02] Year's Eve [83:03] uh 31st in the evening, and I started to [83:06] feel like a little scratchy throat. I'm [83:07] like, oh, [83:08] I think I'm getting sick. [83:10] So, I I go to, you know, the evening [83:13] dinner. I didn't cough or anything. I [83:15] didn't I don't think I was contagious, [83:16] but I just could feel, right? Like [83:17] something was was coming up. [83:20] I felt terrible. I was I had a starting [83:22] to have like full-blown flu symptoms. [83:24] Went home early at like 10 9:00 p.m. [83:27] Um and then I went to bed. It was a [83:29] horrible night. I felt even I was in [83:33] pain, and then my I had like massive [83:35] fever. I took a bath, a warm bath to [83:37] help my fever kind of, you know, go up [83:39] so that I could fight the high fever [83:42] stimulates your immune cells and weakens [83:44] the virus. So, it's a it's it's usually [83:46] a good thing. Um and then it is next day [83:51] I was out, and I was so depressed, and I [83:53] was like, I should write about this. I'm [83:55] writing a book on on energy [83:57] >> [laughter] [83:57] >> and energy constraints and like the the [83:59] division partitioning of energy in in [84:00] the body. I was like, I should write [84:02] about this. This is so interesting. My [84:04] immune system is in full-blown defense [84:06] mode, [84:07] and it's not like I I was like I could [84:11] feel my heart. I'm wearing this aura. My [84:13] heart rate was like 110 [snorts] [84:14] at at rest instead of being like 60, you [84:17] know, normally. So, there's all of this [84:19] energy flowing through. I was like, wow, [84:21] like my metabolic rate objectively is [84:23] higher." We know this is true from from, [84:25] you know, good studies on that when [84:26] you're fighting something you burn more [84:27] energy. Uh yet I'm feeling completely [84:30] drained. Right? So, it's not like the [84:32] amount of energy that's flowing through [84:33] that I should feel more energetic. The [84:35] my immune system in that moment uh was [84:38] draining all my energy. Draining is [84:40] sucking away my energy from, [84:43] you know, from my from my mind, from my [84:45] brain, perhaps. Um and I remember [84:48] thinking it wouldn't be a whole lot of [84:49] energy if I just pulled my laptop, like [84:51] prop myself on the bed, and then start [84:53] to write what I'm experiencing in the [84:55] moment, right? Like the [84:56] uh [84:57] and but I couldn't muster the strength. [84:59] It's like, what what the Like, why [85:00] would I care? [85:01] >> [laughter] [85:02] >> I couldn't care, right? And this is what [85:04] the stuff I care about on a daily basis, [85:06] but in that state of my energy being [85:08] disrupted, I couldn't care about this. [85:11] And then I start to think about the work [85:12] and about, you know, the the lab and [85:14] about uh you know, family things. It's [85:16] like, "Woah, it's my whole life feels so [85:19] different." [85:20] >> I don't care about anything. [85:21] >> Yeah, I don't care about anything. I [85:22] just I'm just trying to survive. [85:24] >> That's so interesting cuz I can relate [85:26] so much. [85:26] >> Yeah, I mean, everyone has been through [85:28] like a difficult like you when you're [85:30] really sick. [85:31] >> Or when you're really stressed. [85:32] >> Yeah. [85:33] >> Or just anything that's all consuming [85:35] like that. [85:35] >> Exactly. That's like Maslow's pyramid, [85:37] right? The the top is squished and [85:38] you're like, "Survival." [85:40] >> And you're like, "Where where did I go?" [85:42] >> Where is Where is [85:43] >> [laughter] [85:43] >> Yeah, I heard about that. [85:44] >> I was still me, right? I was still [85:46] Martin, but [85:47] I I felt completely different. The [85:49] quality of my of my mind, the quality of [85:52] of my intention was like completely [85:54] different. I was just trying to survive. [85:56] I didn't care about anything else. [85:58] So, that episode went on for like 2 days [86:00] or so. Through Day number three, I was [86:02] able to take my computer and like [86:04] start to feel again [86:06] the purpose. [86:07] But it was so interesting that [86:09] just the what what it felt like when I [86:11] was able to write about it. [86:13] >> [laughter] [86:13] >> And really feel into it. It felt like I [86:15] was diffuse energy. [86:17] Like the light, for example, right? [86:19] There's a form of energy. You can have a [86:20] laser. And the difference between a [86:22] laser and a [86:24] an incandescent light bulb, like an [86:26] old-style filament light bulb, is not [86:29] the amount of energy. It's the the way [86:32] the energy is patterned. [86:34] And in a laser, you have every photon [86:36] that are kind of in phase with one [86:37] another. And then there's a coherence to [86:40] it, right? And it's the coherence that [86:42] gives a laser its power. [86:44] Uh it's not the total amount of energy. [86:45] The same amount of energy, if you put in [86:47] an incandescent light bulb, now it's the [86:49] same energy, but it's diffuse, right? [86:51] Every photon is doing its own thing. [86:52] They're all going in all over the place. [86:54] And then if you want to look at how far [86:56] can these photons go? [86:58] Right? How far can my mind go? [87:01] Caring about things. The diffuse energy [87:03] doesn't go very far. [87:04] Uh but the the laser can go super far. [87:07] So, my mind had become like a diffuse [87:10] incandescent light bulb. [87:12] >> Uh I the two things came to mind when [87:14] you said that. [87:15] The first is [87:16] in my previous company, because we were [87:18] a startup, fast growing, we had cash [87:20] flow issues. [87:22] Cash, making sure we had enough money [87:24] coming in from our clients, whatever, to [87:26] pay our staff was always a problem. For [87:28] anyone that doesn't know, [87:30] um when a business is growing quickly, [87:31] it's usually spending more today than [87:33] it's receiving in. So, even if you're [87:35] you're growing from like 1 million to 6 [87:37] million to 12 million to 25 million, [87:38] whatever, as we did, you're you still [87:40] have a cash flow problem. And there'd be [87:42] times when we're nearing the end of the [87:44] month, and months in months in a row, [87:46] and [87:47] I had the same cash flow stress. I [87:48] couldn't pay the team. They They always [87:50] got paid. They never knew. We always [87:51] figured it out. [87:53] But what I'd notice is in those moments [87:55] of really, really high stress, [87:57] sometimes, not always, but there were [87:58] periods where [88:00] I lost motivation. [88:02] And what I meant by that is I literally, [88:04] as a 23, 24-year-old like CEO of all [88:07] these hundreds of people, some of them [88:08] older, double my age, [88:10] I'd basically hide at home. [88:12] And what I mean by hide at home is like [88:13] I didn't have the I lost purpose for [88:15] this business. Like I I'd wake [88:17] up for it might last a week or two weeks [88:19] and I just didn't have the purpose, the [88:22] quote motivation as they call it to like [88:25] go out and be a leader. And now as you [88:27] say I could always because I was [88:28] stressed and it would last for when the [88:30] cash flow issue would resolve, my [88:32] motivation, my purpose, the reason why [88:35] we're doing this zoomed back into focus. [88:38] And I think that's really important cuz [88:39] I you know, that we do have a lot of [88:40] entrepreneurs watching this show and [88:41] they'll beat themselves up sometimes [88:43] because they lose motivation. And as a [88:45] founder and as a CEO, it's you feel so [88:46] guilty that you [88:49] the the source of motivation and [88:50] inspiration and leadership for this [88:51] group of people, you could lose it. But [88:53] now I understand what it was. Now I [88:55] understand that I was at like an a [88:57] chronic well, [88:58] uh yeah, a bit of a chronic energy [88:59] deficit in that moment. [89:01] The other thing I actually made me think [89:03] about as well when you you said about [89:05] this diffusion of energy, it actually [89:07] made me think about businesses and OKRs [89:08] and goals. [89:10] It made me think about [89:11] >> [laughter] [89:11] >> if you take 10 10 people in a startup [89:13] and they're all really really focused on [89:15] the same goal, they're way more [89:17] successful. But sometimes you don't have [89:19] a clear goal and you're all pointing in [89:20] different directions. [89:22] >> So there's incoherence. [89:23] >> There's incoherence. It's kind of like a [89:24] disco light ball. [89:25] Yeah, but you need to be a laser. And [89:26] this is why OKRs are so important cuz [89:28] you can point all the energy at the [89:29] problem. This is traction [89:32] towards a particular goal. [89:33] >> This is what purpose does. [89:36] Purpose focuses energy. [89:38] And I think the reason [89:40] purpose is so powerful, right? And why [89:43] you need to have that, right? To to feel [89:45] it. I I want to say like you have [89:47] purpose. It kind of becomes this must [89:50] find my purpose, you know, must like I'm [89:51] on a a spiritual journey to find my [89:53] purpose. [89:54] >> out and then you're in panic. [89:54] >> Yeah, exactly. [89:56] Uh but when you [89:58] uh [89:58] somehow [89:59] find your yourself in a place where you [90:02] feel like [90:04] those things, you know, that are in your [90:06] life are meaningful, right? And that the [90:08] path you're on is purposeful. I think [90:10] what this does is it brings all of your [90:13] energy that might be diffuse like a a [90:14] light bulb and boom, it [clears throat] [90:16] brings it like a laser. And then you can [90:18] go that distance, right? You can go [90:21] through that half day without eating. [90:23] You can go through that month, right? [90:25] Where it's like you have all all of [90:26] these meetings and it doesn't feel as [90:28] difficult as it would if you were going [90:31] kind of all over the place. [90:33] Focus, I think, brings our energy into a [90:36] coherent state and then it feels like [90:39] coherent, right? It feels like I know [90:41] what I'm doing this. It's then it [90:42] becomes very easy to say no to this and [90:44] to say yes to just the right thing cuz [90:46] there's this coherence, not just [90:48] energetic coherence that allows you to [90:51] do more with less energy, [90:52] but also this coherence of mind, right? [90:55] And then maybe of spirit if you want to [90:56] go there. [90:57] >> I'm I'm going to ask the team to play [90:58] clip. It's a clip of Kevin O'Leary [90:59] talking about this idea of signal and [91:01] noise. And he's referencing his [91:03] experiences with [91:05] Steve Jobs who he used to work with and [91:06] also Elon Musk. [91:08] >> Look how wildly successful he was. [91:12] But here's why. [91:14] There's a concept that he understood [91:16] that very few people focused on back [91:18] then in the early 90s of signal to noise [91:21] ratio. [91:23] What was so brilliant about Jobs [91:27] that I tell every CEO now and I don't [91:29] care if you're an S&P 500 CEO or you're [91:31] just starting a business. [91:33] His vision of signal was the top three [91:36] to five things you have to get done in [91:38] the next 18 hours. Not your vision for [91:40] the business next week or next month or [91:42] next year. Just the next 18 hours you're [91:46] awake. [91:47] You're going to get those three things [91:49] or as five things done that you have [91:51] deemed critical for your mission. [91:53] They must get done today. [91:55] Anything that stops you from doing that [91:57] is the noise. [91:59] So the signal to noise ratio to be [92:01] successful for Steve Jobs [92:04] was 80/20. 80 signal 20 noise. [92:08] And I knew that to be true with him [92:10] because he would email me at 2:30 in the [92:11] morning expect me to get back to him [92:13] because back then we didn't have texts. [92:14] It was all email. [92:17] He was right. He was right. [92:20] And the only other person that I've seen [92:22] that has a higher ratio than that [92:25] is Elon Musk. He has no noise. [92:27] He does not deal with noise. He is 100% [92:29] signal 24 seconds of you know every [92:32] cycle. I mean the guy is just 60 seconds [92:35] of every minute 60 minutes of every hour [92:38] the 18 hours he's awake it's all signal. [92:41] And look what he's achieved. [92:42] >> And so I can really sort of summarize [92:44] this for my audience. Signal is the most [92:47] urgent thing you should be focused on [92:48] right now and noise is basically [92:50] everything else. [92:50] >> No, the goals you set for that the way [92:53] that you are awake. If you're going to [92:54] be awake 18 hours [92:55] >> Yeah. [92:56] >> and you have determined that there's [92:57] three things you have to get done [92:59] you're going to get those done. No [93:00] matter what it takes you're going to get [93:02] those done and you're not going to let [93:03] anything distract you from the three to [93:05] five things. [93:06] If you're a CEO and you achieve that and [93:09] you can get those done with 80% of your [93:11] time based on that [93:13] you're extraordinarily successful. [93:15] >> In that clip [93:17] he's basically saying that the most [93:19] successful entrepreneurs in the world [93:21] are remarkably good at focusing on the [93:23] signal. He said that from his time [93:24] working with Steve Jobs Steve Jobs would [93:26] be 80% signal. I he wakes up in the [93:28] morning and he knows exactly what we [93:31] need to work on. And I watched these [93:32] interviews with Johnny Ive. I'll [93:33] actually also play the Johnny Ive's [93:35] interview because I send this around to [93:36] everybody. So I'm going to play it where [93:37] Johnny Ive talks about how remarkably [93:39] focused Steve Jobs was. [93:41] >> This sounds [93:42] really simplistic but it still shocks me [93:45] how few people actually practice this. [93:48] Um and it's a struggle to practice but [93:51] is is this issue of focus. [93:53] Um Steve was the most remarkably focused [93:58] person I've ever met in my life. [94:00] And um [94:02] And the thing with focus is it's not [94:05] sort of like this thing you aspire to or [94:07] you you decide on Monday, you know what [94:10] I'm going to be focused. [94:12] It is a every minute a why we talking [94:16] about this? This is what we're working [94:18] on. You can achieve so much when you [94:20] truly focus. And one of the things that [94:23] Steve would say [94:25] um because I think he was concerned that [94:27] I wasn't. [94:29] Um [94:29] he would say um how many things have you [94:32] said no to? [94:34] And I would Honestly, I I would have [94:36] these sacrificial things cuz I I mean [94:39] I wanted to be very honest about it and [94:41] so I'd say, "Oh, I've I said no to this [94:44] and no to that." [94:45] And um [94:47] he but he he knew that I wasn't vaguely [94:50] interested in doing those things anyway. [94:52] Um so there was no real sacrifice. What [94:55] what focus means is saying no to [94:57] something that you with every bone in [95:00] your body you think is a phenomenal idea [95:04] and you wake up thinking about it but [95:07] you say no to it because you're focusing [95:09] on something else. [95:10] >> There's something in giving your entire [95:13] being of focus to something. Maybe it's [95:15] the context switching or whatever it is [95:17] that means [95:18] your probability of being successful at [95:21] that particular thing drastically [95:23] drastically increases. [95:24] >> Mhm. [95:24] >> Solving hard problems is hard. [95:26] >> Yeah. [95:27] >> Yeah. But these great great founders, [95:29] they they solve them because they're so [95:31] they're focusing every available unit of [95:33] energy on the thing. [95:34] >> Mhm. [95:35] >> Yes. [95:36] >> I think the reason this is is because of [95:38] a physical principle about energy, which [95:41] is called a resonance, right? If you [95:43] walk through life with such clarity of [95:46] mind right? Like this is [95:49] what the truth is. This is where we're [95:50] going, right? And and live and you [95:52] breathe that. You become like a [95:54] resonator. You hold this energy pattern [95:56] and it comes out not just in in your [95:59] actions and your emails. It comes out in [96:00] the way you speak and then comes out in [96:02] the the things you turn attention to, [96:04] right? It turns out in your tone of [96:05] voice, in the care that you, you know, [96:07] look at people with. It comes out in [96:09] every facet of you, right? So, you [96:10] become the emblematic leader, I guess, [96:13] for for that thing that you're 100% [96:16] into. What this does is that it's picked [96:19] up by other people. Right? Maybe this [96:21] gets like vibes. [96:23] You have that vibe. You have like the [96:24] founder's vibe, right? Or like the [96:26] entrepreneur's vibe. I think this is [96:28] real and this is the energy that's [96:29] flowing through mitochondria somehow [96:31] becoming coherent and, you know, aligned [96:33] and it feels meaningful. It feels [96:35] purposeful and then you live [96:38] like that and then other people around [96:40] you that resonate with it, right? Like [96:43] people are drawn to [96:45] a pure signal. Like if you have that [96:48] specific signal, it's like a a music, [96:50] like a symphony, right? Like when it [96:52] sounds when it's on tune, then people [96:55] that want to come on board like they [96:57] feel this and then it gets amplified. [96:59] >> It's so funny cuz we were talking there [97:00] about Steve Jobs being often cited as a [97:03] prime example of someone who was really [97:04] intensely focused with his with his with [97:06] his energy. [97:07] And what you've just described sounds [97:09] almost perfectly [97:10] like what people said about him when [97:12] they described him as having a reality [97:13] distortion field. [97:14] >> Mhm. [97:15] >> Probably heard this term. Um the reality [97:17] distortion field, they called it his RDF [97:19] was a term coined by Apple software [97:21] engineer Bud Tribble in 1981 to describe [97:24] Steve Jobs' uncanny, almost hypnotic [97:28] ability to convince everyone around him [97:31] to believe practically anything. And [97:33] people who worked closely with Jobs [97:34] described the RDF, the reality [97:36] distortion field, as a confounding mix [97:39] of intense charisma, unyielding [97:41] willpower, and sheer persistence in a [97:43] certain direction which pulled you with [97:45] him. [97:46] >> Mhm. [97:46] >> That's an energetic quality. [97:48] And in physics, if you have something [97:50] that's you has a really strong energy, [97:52] then it can entrain other things. If the [97:55] the source resonator is strong enough, [97:57] people will come in resonance. And then [97:59] it looks spooky. It looks like, "Whoa, [98:01] this thing, you know, synchronicity or [98:02] this you know, this thing happened and [98:04] somehow, you know, that he was able to [98:06] mobilize this this donor and you know, [98:08] fundraising is like easier than it [98:09] should be." And so, they're like all of [98:11] these things snowball because you hold [98:13] that you know, that that vibe. You hold [98:16] that energy and amplify it. [98:18] >> I mean, exactly that. So, I was just [98:19] reading this quote from someone that [98:20] used to work with Steve Jobs. Um, and he [98:22] said that it would cause two things. It [98:24] would be like he was casting spells on [98:25] you, but he was also bending time and [98:27] physics. [98:28] >> [laughter] [98:28] >> They said, "Apple engineer Andy [98:30] Hertzfeld recalled that if you told [98:32] Steve Jobs a task would take 6 months, [98:34] he would look you in the eye and say, [98:37] 'You can do it in 2 weeks.' Because of [98:39] the sheer force of his conviction, [98:40] engineers would often actually end up [98:42] doing it in 2 weeks, completely [98:44] rewriting their own understanding of [98:45] what was possible." And even Bill Gates [98:47] famously remarked on Jobs' charisma, [98:50] saying, "I was like a minor wizard [98:53] because he was casting spells and I [98:56] would see people mesmerized, so much so [98:59] that I was so jealous." [99:01] Gates noted that even when Jobs was [99:03] lying or wrong, [99:05] he had everybody completely hooked. [99:07] >> Mhm. What's clear to make some like [99:08] something like this happen is you need [99:11] to [99:12] um [99:12] feel that there's something compelling. [99:14] Like you need to feel something is [99:16] important. And again, that's not a [99:17] rational thing. Like you need to feel it [99:19] in yourself. Um, and then you need to [99:22] kind of bring that energy into focus and [99:25] bring attention to it, right? And then [99:26] then that's where ideas start to come. [99:28] You build a structure around it to to [99:30] sustain that flow. [99:31] >> You said um at the start that we are the [99:34] energy flowing through ourselves. And if [99:35] I think about the fact that every [99:38] barrier or obstacle we have in the world [99:40] is actually other people. Like that is [99:41] true. Like for me to become the [99:42] president, prime minister, best sales [99:44] person, or best philanthropist, what I [99:45] need to do if I am energy is convince [99:48] other energy [99:50] to change its shape. [99:51] >> I think that's what amazing people do. [99:53] Uh they're able to, you know, see [99:55] something, hold that vision so strongly, [99:58] and then mobilize others, right? And [100:00] then new things become uh possible. I [100:02] think that's what great leaders do. And [100:04] I I now approach, you know, other human [100:06] beings and you know, my my son, like my [100:08] 6-year-old son Noah, [100:10] I see him as yes, a little boy, and yes, [100:13] a lot of energy, and yes, you know, some [100:15] some challenges [100:16] >> [laughter] [100:17] >> that come with this, but he's this [100:19] beautiful little energy pattern, [100:21] right? He's just energy flowing through [100:22] this little child's body. But my role as [100:25] a parent is to provide just around the [100:29] right amount of resistance, right? The [100:30] right amount of constraints. If I don't [100:32] provide any constraint as a do whatever [100:34] you want, have whatever you want, [100:36] uh you know, anytime, then like that's [100:38] not good for development. Kids need to [100:40] feel, you know, some boundaries. And so, [100:43] those are like resistance, right? Little [100:44] constraints. But if every minute, like [100:47] me putting constraint, no, you can't do [100:48] this, no, you can't do that, then it [100:50] damages the system. It traumatizes the [100:52] system. [100:52] >> be able to grow. [100:53] >> Yeah, exactly. So, the the art really of [100:56] parenting, and I think the art of [100:58] leadership is providing the right [101:01] structure, right? So, that the energy [101:03] has some constraints. You like there's a [101:05] challenge. There needs to be a challenge [101:06] for the team to meet, right? Challenge [101:08] is like a barrier. It's like a little [101:09] resistor. Of course, there's challenges, [101:11] you're like it's difficult to get there. [101:13] And if it's not difficult, then every [101:14] everyone's bored. If it's like, yeah, [101:16] we're going to do the same thing as we [101:17] did last year. [101:18] And then next year we should do the same [101:20] thing. That's not the same kind of [101:21] energy as we need to double this year. [101:23] And then we need to double the you know, [101:24] the year after. This kind of goal or [101:27] challenge is a form of constraint, [101:29] something you have to work through. I [101:31] think that's why the human mind is [101:32] naturally drawn to challenges. Like, [101:35] what's the next challenge? Why go down [101:37] deep in the ocean to discover new [101:38] creatures? Why go in the Amazon trying [101:40] to discover new species of little bugs? [101:42] Why go into space? Like this is all [101:44] curiosity driven. It's like the mind [101:46] wanting to have something to hit [101:47] against. Cuz if there's nothing to hit [101:49] against, if there's no resistance, then [101:51] it's there's no purpose. [101:53] >> I was thinking about worthwhile goals as [101:55] actually being magnets for energy. You [101:57] think about going to the moon, the moon [101:59] pulled energy towards it, so we found [102:01] ourselves to the moon. And actually, if [102:02] you bring that down into your own life [102:04] as like a leader of a company, you go [102:06] Okay, if I set a worthwhile goal, I'm [102:08] going to pull people, energy, [102:11] towards it. And if I have an unworth- [102:13] worthwhile goal, energy won't be [102:14] attracted. So, maybe a worthwhile goal [102:16] is actually philosophically a magnet for [102:18] energy. [102:19] >> Yeah, I think so. And people are [102:21] energetic processes. So, my my [102:23] 6-year-old son is this beautiful [102:24] movement of energy. My goal is to [102:26] nurture it, right? And not just with [102:29] food and [102:30] physically, but to nurture his curiosity [102:32] uh and his transformation. [102:34] >> Let me get to this. I read that studies [102:37] on brains of dead people have found that [102:39] those with a greater sense of purpose [102:42] have more efficient mic- mitochondria? [102:45] >> This is this beautiful study in it was [102:47] run in Chicago. Every year, people would [102:49] come to the hospital and then fill out [102:51] questionnaires and meet with a a [102:53] therapist and neuropsychologist and they [102:54] would ask them questions and test their [102:56] memory and their cognition. And then [102:58] every year, they would report how much [103:01] purpose they felt like they had, how [103:03] much sense of connection with other [103:05] human beings or with something greater [103:06] than themselves, how optimistic they [103:08] were about the future, right? And some [103:09] people are like more optimistic, happy, [103:12] and and and purposeful than than others, [103:14] but there's always kind of fluctuations, [103:16] right? Like we go through fluctuations. [103:17] We go through life, no matter how lucky [103:19] you are, life always ends up being [103:21] challenging in in some ways. So, we [103:23] asked [103:25] how people felt, how much purpose people [103:27] experienced before they died. Is that [103:29] related to the mitochondria in their [103:30] brain? And the only way you can ask this [103:32] question is to look at the brain after [103:34] the person died. [103:36] Right? So, then you have how the person [103:37] felt, right? Before they How much [103:39] purpose they experience. And then you [103:41] look at the mitochondria after they die. [103:43] >> Where? [103:44] >> In in the the dorsolateral prefrontal [103:46] cortex. So, that little part of the [103:47] brain that's involved in, you know, [103:49] active reasoning and executive function. [103:51] And the mitochondria in the people who [103:53] felt more purpose had a greater energy [103:57] transformation capacity. [103:59] >> What does that mean in simple terms? [104:00] >> The resistance was lower. This could [104:02] mean that if you feel more life purpose, [104:06] the mitochondria in your brain can flow [104:07] energy more easily. [104:09] >> Or it could mean the inverse of that. [104:10] >> Well, it could mean that having [104:12] mitochondria in your brain that can flow [104:13] energy more easily just changes how you [104:15] see life. [104:16] >> Makes you feel more purposeful. [104:17] >> Yeah, exactly. [104:18] >> Or it could mean that purpose itself is [104:20] creating more efficient mitochondria. [104:21] >> Exactly. People have done studies in [104:23] animals, and we've done some of those [104:24] studies, where you can basically change [104:27] the state of mind of a mouse by like [104:29] stressing it out chronically. And then [104:31] you make it feel defeated and like a [104:33] really stressful life. And you ask, [104:35] "Does this change the mitochondria in [104:36] the brain?" Right? Can the experience of [104:38] stress change the mitochondria in the [104:40] brain? 100%. That happens. Now you can [104:43] say, "Okay, now let's change the [104:44] mitochondria in the brain. You can like [104:46] open up the brain, inject a little [104:47] something that either boost the [104:49] mitochondria or inhibit and activate the [104:51] mitochondria, increase or decrease [104:53] resistance." And then you ask, "Does [104:55] this change how the animal appears to [104:56] feel? How do animals behave in terms of [104:58] anxiety or social interactions with [105:00] other animals, sociality or dominance?" [105:03] 100%. So, [105:05] the best science shows it goes both [105:06] ways. So, how you feel can change the [105:08] mitochondria, the mitochondria can [105:09] change probably how you feel. [105:11] >> And so, if And we're going to we're [105:12] theorizing here. If I don't have purpose [105:14] in my life, it's going to change the [105:16] mitochondria. And then if it If my [105:18] mitochondria becomes more inefficient, [105:20] >> Mhm. [105:21] >> then what? [105:22] What will I notice as the next symptom? [105:24] >> Yeah, probably fatigue is the first [105:26] thing that kind of starts to pop up. You [105:28] feel drained, you don't feel you have, [105:29] you know, enough energy. Burnout? [105:32] Probably feels like burnout, and you [105:34] start to lose enthusiasm for, you know, [105:37] for the future. [105:38] You become more pessimistic. So, there's [105:40] kind of a constellation of things we [105:41] call depression or, you know, burnout, [105:44] or we put labels on these things, but [105:45] really every person starts to experience [105:47] life as less enjoyable, less purposeful, [105:50] less meaningful, [105:52] um regardless of the the diagnostic [105:54] title we put on it. [105:55] >> Which is interesting, cuz I've I've [105:56] interviewed a few people that are [105:58] experts on the subject of depression, [106:00] and also addiction, frankly. And one of [106:01] the things that I remember Johann Hari [106:03] saying to me, who wrote a book called [106:05] Lost Connections, is that in some [106:06] cultures, the cure that they apply for [106:09] depressive symptoms is giving someone [106:12] purpose in their life. [106:13] >> Mhm. Yeah, it's so powerful. [106:16] My hunch is that [106:18] most of what we call depression is a [106:20] loss of coherence. And when we're [106:22] isolated, [106:23] we did a study recently to look at the [106:25] energetics of mental stress. [106:27] When you feel like you're being pulled [106:29] aside and judged, and right? What does [106:31] that do energetically to the body? [106:33] And and there's this protein marker in [106:35] the blood that reflects energy friction, [106:38] energy resistance, right? If the [106:40] mitochondria can't flow energy smoothly, [106:43] this protein gets made. And then it's in [106:46] the kind of a blood biomarker. It's [106:48] elevated in cancer, [106:50] where we think there's increased energy [106:52] resistance. It's elevated in [106:53] Alzheimer's, where we think there's [106:54] increased energy resistance in the [106:55] brain. It's elevated in diabetes, where [106:57] there's increased energy resistance with [106:59] the insulin resistance. It's elevated in [107:02] all sorts of pathologies, hypertension [107:04] and the heart disease, and it's a marker [107:06] that the organism energetically is not [107:08] doing well. There's it's not efficient, [107:11] right? That's almost a marker of [107:12] inefficiency. We did this study where [107:14] you bring people in, we put an [107:16] intravenous line, so we can measure the [107:18] blood markers, [107:19] and then we tell them, "Okay, just [107:20] relax, everything's fine, you're doing [107:22] great." And then they they sit down, [107:23] they relax for 30 minutes, cortisol goes [107:25] down, the heart rate goes down, blood [107:27] pressure goes down. [107:28] And then our lovely study coordinator, [107:30] Catherine, walked into the room and then [107:33] looked at the participants and said, [107:34] "Now you're going to be judged. [107:35] You're going to have to deliver a speech [107:37] and here's a situation. You were in a [107:39] shopping mall. You were you know, you [107:41] grabbed this this car if you put it on [107:43] just to try, but then the security guard [107:45] caught you and then they're accusing you [107:46] of shoplifting. So now you're in court, [107:48] you need to defend yourselves in front [107:50] of the [107:51] the judge and you need to tell the judge [107:54] what should happen to the security [107:55] guard. Should he lose his job or and [107:57] then then we tell them, "You have 2 [107:58] minutes to prepare your 3-minute defense [108:01] in front of the judge." [108:03] Most people [108:05] start to feel the the anxiety and then [108:07] we we monitor heart rate at the same [108:08] time and blood pressure and and then we [108:10] draw blood and so you can see everyone's [108:12] physiology. Wasting energy, right? The [108:14] energetic cost of stress. [108:16] You see this on the monitor on the other [108:18] side, you know, in the control room. And [108:20] then we put a camera in front of them [108:21] that mocks, you know, video records [108:23] them. And then we have a white [108:25] coat-wearing old white man who stands 6 [108:28] feet in front of them, looks at them [108:30] straight in the eye and says, "Start [108:31] talking." [108:32] And then they have to [108:33] look into into the camera and they do [108:35] their their defense and they know [108:36] someone's looking at them. And what we [108:38] saw was that this energy stress marker [108:41] goes up. [108:42] Just with mental stress. You're not [108:44] doing exercise, you're not doing [108:45] anything strenuous. You're just going [108:47] through this phase of [108:50] what's going to happen to me, to my ego, [108:51] to to my sense of self. [108:53] >> So what's the downstream consequence of [108:54] this thing, this stress chemical being [108:56] in your body? [108:57] >> Yeah, so that protein is called GDF15. [109:00] >> Yeah. [109:00] >> Growth differentiation factor 15. The [109:02] name doesn't matter, but that energetic [109:04] stress marker, you're asking the right [109:06] question. What does it do? And what does [109:08] it matter? And it turns out this protein [109:09] goes to the brain [109:10] >> Yeah. [109:11] >> and that protein can be made by any [109:12] organ in the body except one. [109:16] The brain. [109:18] What is it doing? It's very useful to [109:19] know where Where is the receptor? Right? [109:22] Cuz you need to have for signaling and [109:23] biology to happen, you need a signal and [109:26] you need a a receptor, a sensor, right? [109:28] Uh where's the receptor for this [109:30] protein, do you think? [109:31] Only in one organ in the body. [109:36] >> Is it in here? [109:37] >> It's right in here. [109:38] >> [laughter] [109:39] >> Yeah, so in the brainstem. The The [109:41] brainstem is where kind of the the [109:44] basic survival systems of the body are [109:47] and there's a region in the brainstem [109:48] called the area postrema. Doesn't [109:50] matter. It's It's known as the vomiting [109:52] and nausea center for the brain. [109:54] >> Wait, so if something happens, I'm [109:55] extremely stressed, the world is judging [109:57] me, this protein goes into my blood and [109:59] then it goes up into my brainstem and it [110:01] docks in there, correct? And then what [110:03] happens? [110:03] >> And then it turns out the brain [110:04] interpret this as [110:06] there's something running out of energy. [110:08] >> There's something running out of energy, [110:09] okay. [110:10] >> Something in the body is not right. [110:12] There's something running out of energy [110:14] and then the brain makes two decisions, [110:15] very similar to when you're sick. That [110:18] protein GDF15 is called a cytokine. It's [110:21] the same thing that immune cells produce [110:23] when they're activated during an [110:25] infection. [110:25] >> Okay, so your body thinks you're sick. [110:27] >> Yes. [110:27] >> And then what? [110:28] >> And then does two things. [110:30] Save energy, conserve energy. [110:32] >> So you lose motivation. [110:33] >> Yes. Lose motivation. [110:35] >> Feel depressed. [110:36] >> Feel depressed. [110:37] >> Can't go to the gym. [110:38] >> Yes. [110:39] Doesn't feel worth it. We know that this [110:41] specifically from animal studies, if you [110:43] inject animals with GDF15, they hunch in [110:45] a ball and they don't do anything, [110:47] right? They go into this sickness [110:48] behavior. That's number one. Number two, [110:51] the brain says, "Something's running out [110:53] of energy. First, let's conserve energy, [110:54] number one, but two, let's mobilize [110:57] energy, right? Let's put glucose into [110:59] the blood. Let's put fat into the blood [111:01] because there might be cells out there [111:03] that are, you know, running out of [111:04] energy and we need to rescue them." [111:06] >> Are you going to get [111:07] belly fat? [111:08] >> Visceral fat, yeah. [111:09] >> Yeah, you're going to get belly fat from [111:10] this. [111:10] >> Yeah, when stress hormones are up, [111:12] right? And you're increasing blood [111:13] glucose, increasing [111:15] blood lipids, if the rest of the body [111:17] doesn't need it, which is what kind of [111:18] happens in during a stress response like [111:20] this, that fat gets lodged where it [111:23] shouldn't. Called ectopic fat, and [111:25] that's what belly fat is. [111:27] >> Okay, so let's go a bit further. This is [111:29] happening. Um if this is chronic, [111:32] I guess it's going to lead at some point [111:34] to disease. [111:34] >> Mhm. [111:35] What the best studies show on this is [111:37] when you have high level of this [111:39] energetic stress marker, this protein, [111:41] you're more likely if you follow people [111:43] then studies were done where you take [111:45] the blood, you measure this protein. [111:46] Some people have very high levels, some [111:47] people have very low levels. Uh and then [111:50] you [111:51] wait 14 years. This is actually a study [111:53] from the UK. It's called the UK Biobank. [111:55] So if you measure the protein energetic [111:58] stress cytokine and you ask, "What [111:59] happens to people with high GDF15 versus [112:01] people with low GDF15?" Turns out people [112:04] with high GDF15 are more likely to [112:06] develop mental illness. [112:07] >> Mhm. [112:08] >> Bipolar disease, depression, [112:10] schizophrenia. [112:11] People with high GDF15 are more likely [112:13] to develop cardiovascular disease, [112:15] hypertension. [112:17] People with high GDF15 are more likely [112:18] to be dead. [112:20] At this point we don't know if it makes [112:22] a difference if it's from mental stress, [112:24] if it's from physical stress, if it's [112:25] from an organ struggling, right? That's [112:28] sick and trying to to heal itself. High [112:31] energy stress, high energy resistance in [112:33] the body [112:34] based on this marker [112:35] is [112:36] called a prognostic indicator. It's an [112:38] indicator that [112:40] something bad might happen. And uh and [112:42] and people with high GDF15 also, they [112:44] don't like to take the stairs. They [112:46] don't like to walk for pleasure. They [112:47] don't like to go out to the gym. They [112:49] don't like to go out with friends. [112:51] >> They don't like to exercise, or what? [112:52] >> Correct. Yeah, cuz it it if you're [112:54] getting the signal like when you're [112:56] sick, right? If the GDF15 is made [112:58] somewhere in your body, it goes to your [112:59] brain, you're getting the signal, you're [113:01] running out of energy. [113:02] >> So I guess the the question everyone's [113:04] asking that is listening to this now is [113:07] how do I prevent GDF15 or whatever it's [113:10] called, this stress cytokine thing that [113:12] goes and docks in my brain? How do I [113:14] prevent it from floating around in my [113:16] blood so often? [113:17] >> Good question. Taking the time to feel. [113:19] >> [laughter] [113:19] >> Meditation. [113:20] >> Meditation. My bloody fiance was right. [113:24] >> Uh what we know is there's some initial [113:27] evidence that GDF15 increases throughout [113:29] the day, right? Uh so the purpose of [113:32] sleep then might be to reduce energy [113:35] resistance. [113:36] All right, like what we were talking [113:37] about earlier, it's not about having [113:39] like finding this one optimal level of [113:41] resistance and sticking there. It's [113:43] about this movement of increasing [113:45] resistance and then decreasing [113:47] resistance and increasing resistance and [113:48] decreasing resistance. It's kind of this [113:50] movement of life. [113:51] >> And I guess all the other things we [113:52] talked about earlier as it relates to [113:53] lifestyle factors like keeping away from [113:55] these sort of extreme stresses, eating [113:57] way too much, starving oneself, [114:00] oxidative stress. None of the solutions [114:02] here are rocket science, are they? [114:04] >> Mhm. [114:04] >> Do you know what I mean? [114:05] >> Mhm. [114:05] >> If we just look back in time of how we [114:07] used to live a you know, a little bit [114:08] more human out in nature with people, [114:10] with friends, off screens. [114:11] >> Yeah. [114:12] >> Eating stuff that grows in the ground or [114:13] has legs and runs. [114:15] A lot of that is pretty like a pretty [114:16] simple playbook for like how to live a [114:17] good life. [114:18] >> Yeah. [114:19] >> And to not be so bloody stressed out all [114:20] the time. [114:21] >> I think part of it is yes, living a life [114:24] that is more aligned with the way we [114:26] evolved. [114:27] Right? Which is [114:29] connecting to other human beings and not [114:31] eating too much and [114:32] um I think that's one piece and but [114:35] that's like everyone knows this. [114:37] >> Yeah. [114:37] >> Why aren't we doing it? [114:39] And I think part of the reason is [114:42] because we we have this kind of [114:43] misconception of ourselves as a [114:45] molecular machine, right? And it's like [114:48] need to maintain your car. If I'm like a [114:50] machine, if I'm like a car, then I'm [114:51] just going to put more fuel in and I [114:53] should feel better. And then you do it [114:54] and then you you eat more and then you [114:56] don't feel better. And that's I think [114:58] extremely disempowering. [115:00] People want to be empowered and people [115:02] want to have knowledge, but they want to [115:04] know what to do so they can be their [115:06] best version of themselves, so they can [115:08] flourish. [115:09] >> So, you know what's interesting? Before [115:10] you arrived, I I did something I've [115:11] never done before. I went through [115:13] all of the interviews you've done, and I [115:14] looked at all the comments because I [115:16] wanted to understand the people that [115:18] have listened to you frequently. What [115:19] what what What is it they feel like they [115:20] would love to ask you, or what they [115:21] haven't gotten from other interviews? [115:23] One of the most popular comments, which [115:25] was seen roughly 10% of time, was the [115:28] audience asking about supplements. And [115:30] the question that they had is that they [115:32] know you personally lean on lifestyle [115:33] interventions, but the biohacking [115:35] community is very interested in [115:37] compounds like methylene blue, urolithin [115:40] A, and N NAD+ boosters. [115:44] In your opinion, what does the sort of [115:45] clinical data or clinical consensus [115:47] actually say about these supplements? [115:48] Are they a shortcut? Are they a [115:50] band-aid? Are they useful? [115:51] >> I think there are shortcuts to [115:54] to some [115:56] states. I lean away from them because I [115:58] think once we start to think that [116:00] there's a magic pill to solve a complex [116:03] issue, to solve the way that you're [116:05] feeling, becomes like the oh, there's a [116:07] magic pill for this. And then you don't [116:08] need to bring awareness to what you are. [116:12] >> But, can I do both? [116:15] >> [laughter] [116:15] >> I think so. In in some cases, I don't [116:17] really know how methylene blue does [116:20] everything it's supposed to be doing. [116:21] What [116:23] biologically methylene blue seems to be [116:25] able to give electrons to the [116:27] mitochondria. So, maybe there's [116:28] something there that methylene blue can [116:29] help relieve energy resistance in the [116:31] mitochondria. NAD+ is probably the best [116:35] supported intervention to reduce [116:38] inflammation. Also, it's an electron [116:40] carrier. So, it take electrons from food [116:43] and then gives them to the electron [116:44] transport chain, so the mitochondria can [116:46] flow those electrons with low [116:47] resistance. So, if you're depleted of [116:50] NAD, [116:51] there's that's going to cause increased [116:53] resistance for electrons to flow through [116:55] the the metabolic circuit. [116:57] >> So, NAD+ seems to calm things down a [116:59] little bit in terms of energy processing [117:01] and if [117:01] >> Yeah, and most people are not deficient [117:04] of NAD+, so giving more to the system [117:07] might not help, but for for reasons I [117:10] don't really understand, it seems like [117:12] it helps some people and it makes people [117:14] uh feel more energetic. [117:15] >> Is that in pill form? Like, how do [117:17] people take NAD+? Cuz I know there was [117:18] some like drips one time that some guy [117:20] gave me. [117:21] >> Yes, I think there there's [117:22] uh oral supplements that are uh [117:24] precursors to NAD. If you eat NAD [117:26] directly, it doesn't the [117:28] bioavailability, it's called, it doesn't [117:30] get into, you know, your cells very [117:32] well. You can inject, infuse IV, [117:34] intravenously, uh NAD+ directly, and [117:37] then that gets to your cells better. Um [117:40] that's not a uh an approved or kind of [117:43] recommended medical intervention, but [117:45] I've seen people with mitochondrial [117:47] disease, you know, saying that it helps [117:49] them and uh [117:50] normal healthy people as well who feel [117:52] more energy. [117:53] >> What about this urolithin A? [117:55] >> Urolithin A is a a new compound that [117:58] seems to stimulate the degradation of [118:00] bad mitochondria. [118:02] So, we talked about autophagy, mitophagy [118:05] earlier. So, a cell that has a thousand [118:07] mitochondria, there always some that are [118:09] getting a little old and then they [118:10] eventually they're degraded, especially [118:12] if you fast, right? If the cell is a [118:14] little starved, it's going to degrade [118:16] the ones that are least functional. And [118:19] there's a kind of a whole selection [118:20] process that happens inside the cell to [118:22] know which mitochondria are bad, which [118:23] ones are good, but the bad mitochondria [118:25] get targeted and then they get degraded [118:27] if you're fasting or if you're pushing [118:29] the system like during exercise. [118:31] What your urolithin A seems to do is to [118:34] kind of accelerate this process. Right? [118:36] So, it accelerates the degradation of [118:39] the bad mitochondria, the mitophagy, so [118:41] that the cell has to make more of the [118:43] good ones. [118:43] >> I'm looking at some of the studies here [118:44] and it says the clinical evidence for [118:46] urolithin A has rapidly expanded over [118:48] the last few years, transitioning from a [118:50] compelling animal data study to highly [118:54] rigorous placebo-controlled human [118:55] clinical trials and overwhelmingly the [118:57] human research confirms that urolithin A [118:59] targets mitochondrial dysfunction and [119:01] systemic inflammation with one study in [119:04] 2022 in the JAMA Network Open study [119:07] journal [119:08] where they took adults aged 65 to 90 and [119:11] gave one of them placebo one of the [119:12] groups placebo and the other urolithin A [119:15] for 4 months and at the end of that they [119:17] found [119:18] that the group that were given urolithin [119:20] A showed statistically significant [119:22] improvements in muscle endurance and a [119:24] reduction in biomarkers of mitochondrial [119:26] inefficiency. [119:27] >> Mhm. [119:28] >> I should be on urolithin A then. [119:30] >> Everyone should. Do you take any of [119:31] that? [119:32] >> I don't. [119:32] >> You don't take any supplements? [119:33] >> I don't. I'm skeptical of this. You [119:34] know, there's always kind of a new [119:36] supplement that does amazing things [119:38] especially if it cures mitochondrial [119:40] dysfunction. Mitochondria have dozens of [119:41] functions. [119:42] >> Yeah. [119:43] >> And so the term mitochondrial [119:45] dysfunction is I think a little [119:46] misleading. Like there was a lot of hype [119:48] about NAD, there was a lot of hype about [119:50] coenzyme Q, CoQ10. There was a lot of [119:52] hype about all sorts of things, [119:53] anti-inflammatory, you know, berries and [119:55] antioxidants was a big thing like 10 20 [119:58] years ago. Turned out not to be so [120:00] useful. Actually impairs normal [120:03] adaptation and signaling if you eat too [120:05] many antioxidants. [120:07] Um so urolithin A feels like the next [120:09] fad. Maybe it's real. I think the [120:12] science is fairly compelling but I'm [120:15] I trust the wisdom of my body and my [120:17] mitochondria more than I trust the the [120:19] pharma company that's trying to sell [120:21] this. [120:22] >> And what does that mean in in practical [120:23] terms trusting the wisdom of your body? [120:26] Like what does that mean for you? [120:27] >> Uh-huh. [120:28] It means [120:29] recognizing that I am the the energy [120:31] that's flowing through this thing and [120:33] this thing is nature. Like we are a [120:35] piece of nature. Something that's true [120:37] across the animal kingdom and the the [120:39] living kingdom is things heal. [120:42] And we don't think about this in [120:43] biomedicine. We think about diseases, we [120:45] study, you know, when things go wrong [120:47] and we try to understand the molecular, [120:49] you know, features of diseases. There's [120:51] not really a science of the healing [120:53] process. But the basis of health, it's [120:55] clear, you need to heal continuously. [120:58] Heal, you know, repair the DNA that's [121:00] damaged. Repair the mitochondria that [121:01] are getting old, you get rid of them, [121:03] you make new ones. Like preserving the [121:05] wholeness of the system. To heal means [121:07] to become whole again. [121:08] >> Is that contingent on me being in a [121:10] natural environment for my nature to [121:13] heal? Because if you think about me and [121:16] you sat here now, we're sat in a like a [121:18] dark bunker basically with no sunlight. [121:20] [laughter] [121:21] And listen, most of us live in such a [121:22] dark bunker with very little sunlight. [121:23] So, we then have to take vitamin D. [121:27] So, because we live outside of our true [121:29] nature, I'm wondering if actually we do [121:30] need to take some supplements cuz we're [121:32] not going to heal. [121:34] >> We are going to heal. [121:35] >> Even but if I sit here all day, I'm not [121:36] going to get vitamin D and then that's [121:37] going to cause problems. [121:38] >> Yes. So, we're not in the optimal [121:39] environment. When you're in that kind of [121:41] environment, so I think there and and [121:42] there's good research showing if you put [121:43] a plant in a hospital [121:45] patients recover faster. There's been [121:47] studies [121:48] looking at like windows with natural [121:50] light then you see nature if you're in a [121:52] hospital for example, people recover [121:54] better. And there is good data on like [121:56] nature exposure. Is it like [121:59] the more better oxygen, you know, a [122:00] little tiny bit more oxygen if you're in [122:02] a forest, is it like the phytochemicals, [122:04] the things that are produced by the by [122:06] the plants? Like we don't really know [122:07] what it is. Is it just seeing green, [122:09] seeing something that hears that sounds [122:11] and looks like what you evolved to be [122:14] around? So, we don't really know, but we [122:15] know exposure to nature kind of helps [122:18] calm the body and somehow improve [122:20] recovery. [122:26] >> Whoa. [122:27] >> Whoa, it's on your face. [122:27] >> This is a my bun charge face mask. I've [122:29] been wearing this for some time now. [122:30] They are a sponsor of the podcast. I put [122:32] this on for 15, 20 minutes a day. I can [122:34] sit here in the chair and wear it. Boost [122:36] my collagen production, helps with fine [122:38] lines, blemishes, my complexion gets [122:39] better. And then people more people [122:41] listen to podcast cuz I look better. [122:42] >> Professional-grade equipment in such a [122:44] small box. It's non-invasive. And having [122:47] sat here with so many of the world's [122:48] leading health professionals, there's [122:50] various things that I repeatedly hear [122:52] work and some things I'm a bit skeptical [122:53] about. This is one of the things that [122:55] almost all of my guests on this show [122:57] have confirmed works. It is really, [122:59] really, really effective. And they offer [123:01] fast, free shipping worldwide with easy [123:03] returns and exchanges. And you'll also [123:05] get a 1-year warranty on all of their [123:06] products. And they're HSA- and [123:08] FSA-eligible, giving you tax-free [123:10] savings up to 40%. And you can get 20% [123:14] off when you order through my link at [123:16] boncharge.com/doac. [123:19] That's boncharge.com/doac. [123:22] The deal applies site-wide. [123:25] One type of help people also wanted to [123:26] know about from you, which was even more [123:29] discussed, was about red light therapy. [123:32] Red light therapy as a support for your [123:34] mitochondria. [123:35] >> Interestingly, the red light therapy is [123:37] a pretty big thing now. There are [123:38] hundreds of different devices, helmets, [123:42] a hairbrush. [123:44] A band. [123:44] >> actually. I think this is This This is a [123:47] red light [123:49] >> therapy hairbrush. [123:50] >> Therapy hairbrush. [123:51] >> [laughter] [123:51] >> Yeah. [123:52] Uh so, someone was just telling me their [123:53] dad is part of a study now. He puts a [123:56] helmet with red light, you know, every [123:57] day because he has a pre-dementia. By [124:01] doing this, the idea is [124:03] uh light is energy. [124:04] >> Yeah. [124:05] >> Right? Energy is not a thing, but it's [124:07] the potential for change. It's the [124:08] capacity to change something. Red light [124:11] like this, especially the red, the [124:13] infrared that you don't see with your [124:14] eye, can penetrate tissue. It can go [124:16] through your hair, through your skull, [124:18] and then into your brain. And then [124:20] there, it seems to do something and [124:21] change metabolism. So, how is it doing [124:24] this? The best hypothesis we have is [124:26] that for light to do something in [124:28] biology, there needs to be something in [124:30] biology that resonates with it, right? [124:31] That can [124:32] offer the right amount of resistance, [124:34] right? Do the photons of red light [124:36] photons hit and then there's [124:37] transformation of energy. That receptor, [124:41] the antenna, the cellular antenna for [124:42] red light seems to be mitochondria. So, [124:44] there's something in the mitochondria [124:45] where the electrons flow and then boom, [124:47] they meet with oxygen to become [124:50] metabolic water. [124:51] Uh that is called cytochrome c oxidase. [124:54] >> I'm going to try and say this in [124:55] layman's terms. If I take red light and [124:57] I put it on my skin, it doesn't even [125:00] need to touch my skin. I can put it just [125:01] close to my skin. [125:02] >> Yeah. [125:03] >> The red light is going into the [125:04] mitochondria of my cell and it's helping [125:07] the mitochondria to become more [125:09] efficient. [125:10] >> That's the idea. [125:11] >> So, I should wake up every day and do [125:12] bloody red light then? [125:13] >> If you're deficient in that in that way, [125:15] that might be good. Uh that might also [125:17] offset, you know, the the natural order [125:20] that your body has has created. [125:23] >> Oh, what do you mean by that? You think [125:24] it might be [125:25] >> I think that in in general, that's why I [125:27] kind of veer away from supplements [125:28] because the organism is a beautiful [125:31] dynamic equilibrium of like everything, [125:33] you know, energetically dancing with [125:35] each other where you have the [125:36] mitochondria to transform energy and [125:37] then, you know, genes are expressed and [125:39] then this other cell is doing this, this [125:40] cell is doing this and there's this [125:41] beautiful balance. And uh when the [125:44] system is out of balance, now there's [125:46] signals, like inflammation, right? [125:47] Signals of this imbalance [125:50] uh at an energetic level and then that [125:51] turns into molecular level and then the [125:53] system tries to come back into balance, [125:56] right? And [125:57] >> Wow. [125:58] I never realized this [126:00] that too much red light can be bad for [126:01] you. [126:02] >> I don't know if there's studies that [126:03] show too much red light is bad for you, [126:05] but there's like phototoxicity is a [126:07] thing and there you can buy a whole bed [126:11] of like really intense light. And I [126:13] think if you stay too long in those, [126:14] that's probably not good. There's a a [126:16] very compelling study that was published [126:18] last year [126:19] uh on [126:21] blood glucose regulation. [126:23] And I know you've talked about blood [126:24] glucose on other episodes. [126:27] How much glucose in the blood is really [126:29] important because it causes this like [126:31] energy resistance, energy friction in [126:33] all of your cells, especially the brain [126:34] perhaps. So, when you eat a bunch of [126:37] sugar or you eat a meal with [126:39] carbohydrates, blood glucose typically [126:41] spikes. If you get stressed out, just [126:42] psychological stress will increase blood [126:44] glucose. So, those glucose spikes can [126:47] increase energy resistance and then [126:48] start to cause damage, accelerate aging, [126:50] and so on. So, the what the body does in [126:53] the normal healthy organism is able to [126:55] regulate blood glucose. So, if you eat a [126:57] big meal, there's amount of enough [126:58] insulin that's released and then the [127:00] glucose can come into cells into the [127:02] muscles and into the fat and and then [127:04] you preserve, you know, what's called [127:05] normal glycemia, normal blood glucose. [127:08] It turns out if you shine a red light on [127:10] the back of people as they ingest a big [127:14] bunch of glucose, [127:16] the spike in glucose is not as high. [127:18] And what they did in that study that was [127:19] interesting is they measured [127:21] mitochondrial metabolism through the [127:23] mouth. You can measure oxygen coming in [127:26] and CO2 coming out, which is coming from [127:28] mitochondria. So, you can measure the [127:30] the the energy metabolism, which is [127:32] really the mitochondrial metabolism, as [127:34] people are doing this. And what they [127:36] found is that people who had red light [127:38] on their back, their metabolism was [127:40] actually [127:41] uh a little higher. So, the electrons, [127:44] the flow of energy was increased with [127:46] the red light. And and they think that [127:48] might be why the glucose didn't spike as [127:50] much because the electrons that came [127:52] into the blood were able to flow through [127:54] the mitochondria. [127:55] Um so, this points to some regulation of [127:59] energy regulation in inside the [128:01] mitochondria that I don't fully [128:03] understand, but I think there there's [128:04] something promising here. And it [128:06] certainly supports, [128:08] you know, the idea that energy [128:09] modalities outside of ourselves, uh you [128:11] know, light or electromagnetic fields, [128:14] other human beings that are, you know, [128:16] you energy energetic processes affecting [128:18] my metabolism all the time. [128:20] We respond to each other [128:22] energetically, metabolically. Uh I think [128:24] it it supports that idea. You're an [128:26] energetic process and you're influenced [128:28] by other forms of energy even if you [128:30] don't see it. [128:31] >> I'm really um stunned by this idea that [128:34] there is such thing as getting too much [128:36] red light and that that can have harm [128:37] for yourselves because there is I'll be [128:39] honest, you know, there's been a couple [128:40] of times where I just put that thing on [128:41] and maybe like read a book for a long [128:43] time. Like an hour or two. [128:45] >> Did you ever feel adverse effects from [128:47] this? [128:48] >> I never felt a adverse [128:50] effects. However, looking at some of the [128:53] studies, it seems to it suggests that [128:56] red light therapy follows a bell curve [128:58] model. [128:59] >> Mhm. [129:00] >> They found in this one particular study [129:01] I was reading about in 2009 that low to [129:04] moderate doses of light perfectly [129:05] stimulate the mitochondria to produce [129:07] ATP and a healthy small burst of ROS, [129:10] reactive oxygen species to trigger [129:12] cellular repair. However, this [129:15] particular study also showed that when [129:16] the dose is pushed too high, the light [129:18] creates massive amounts of reactive [129:20] oxidative species and this excess [129:23] oxidative stress overwhelms the cells [129:25] antioxidant defenses completely shutting [129:27] down mitochondrial respiration and in [129:30] inducing cellular apoptosis, cell death, [129:34] instead of healing. [129:35] >> Mhm. Yeah. [129:37] That this bell-shaped relationship is [129:38] something we see [129:40] in many domains of biology and [129:43] physiology. Same as like [129:44] work out, exercising. Like [129:47] most people know if you do a work out [129:49] that's like half an hour, an hour, two [129:50] hours, if you're an athlete and you're [129:52] like really well conditioned, it's fine. [129:53] And then you recover for you know, 23 [129:55] hours after your 1-hour work out and [129:57] that's great. It actually makes you more [129:59] efficient. It gives you the idea the [130:01] impression you have more energy which is [130:02] really energy flowing more efficiently. [130:05] But if you work out for eight hours [130:07] >> Yeah. [130:08] >> that's not good, right? So the too much [130:10] you you crash, not enough you're not at [130:12] your optimal. So there's where is the [130:14] optimal state and biology and the whole [130:18] mind-body unit has kind of worked out [130:20] through evolution and through your life [130:22] and development to find this sweet spot. [130:24] >> If you know how to listen to it. [130:25] >> Yeah. [130:26] >> And that's that's easier said than done. [130:27] >> Yes. If you can live in alignment and [130:29] that [130:30] >> There's a lot of noise out there. [130:31] >> There is. You know, for the same reason [130:33] you close your eyes earlier when I asked [130:35] you to kind of feel inside. This is a [130:37] good analogy for I think [130:39] what it means to kind of listen to our [130:41] energy. [130:42] And maybe we could do a little exercise [130:43] if you're interested. [130:44] >> Sure. [130:44] >> Yeah. [130:45] So, we'll do a a little exercise. Uh you [130:47] can close your eyes if you want. [130:49] >> Everyone at home also, close your eyes [130:50] unless you are driving. [130:51] >> Yeah. And we'll use the breath. [130:54] So, you can start by [130:55] just feeling your body. You can feel [130:57] kind of gravity pulling your body down [130:59] into the chair. [131:02] And then we'll take a little breath in. [131:04] And then breath out. And then all the [131:07] way down. [131:08] And then hold your breath. [131:10] With empty lungs. [131:14] And then hold there. [131:16] For as long as you can. [131:20] And just pay attention to the sensations [131:22] that are emerging in your body. [131:25] Whether it's in your belly, in your [131:27] chest, in your neck, in your head. [131:33] And the longer you wait, the more [131:34] intense those sensations are. [131:42] You can hold for as long as you want and [131:44] when you can't, then just take a deep [131:46] breath. [131:47] Deep breath. [131:49] What does that feel like? [131:50] >> [sighs] [131:50] >> I felt I felt lots of vibrations. [131:52] >> Mhm. [131:53] >> It's kind of like waves. I felt like [131:54] kind of like waves [131:56] going across my body, but I it was [131:58] almost like I could feel the energy [131:59] moving through my body. [132:00] >> Mhm. [132:01] >> It's kind of how it felt. [132:02] I suddenly was very apparent clear of my [132:04] heartbeat. I could feel everything. [132:06] >> Mhm. [132:08] >> In a way that I can't typically feel [132:09] everything. [132:09] >> Yeah. Any [132:11] kind of negative feeling or any [132:13] sensation that was uncomfortable? [132:15] >> I mean, it near the end when I couldn't [132:17] when I hadn't breathed in a while it was [132:18] a bit uncomfortable. [132:19] >> Yeah, what did that feel like? [132:21] >> Like like I was starving for oxygen, [132:23] like I was starving for air. [132:24] >> Yeah. You know, running out of air and [132:27] like drowning is one of the most [132:29] horrible like aversive experience that I [132:31] think we evolved to dislike. Right, so [132:35] what what was happening there in our [132:36] bodies as we were doing this is [132:39] oxygen is being consumed by mitochondria [132:40] continuously. Right? Every millisecond [132:43] mitochondria consume oxygen and now [132:45] you're not bringing oxygen through your [132:46] breath. And then they produce CO2, [132:48] carbon dioxide, right? So, mitochondria [132:51] are burning the oxygen little bit by [132:52] little bit and then they're producing [132:54] carbon dioxide, CO2, and we evolved to [132:57] feel those signals very very [133:00] sensitively. [133:00] >> That's the pressure that I felt. [133:02] >> Yeah. [133:03] >> Not good. [133:03] >> think that yes. So, the subjective [133:05] experience, right? What we described [133:07] there is an experience of energy [133:10] starting to stall cuz if there's no [133:12] oxygen in your mitochondria, the [133:14] electrons are like, "Where do I go?" And [133:15] then there's like extreme level of [133:17] resistance. [133:18] Like [clears throat] the most extreme [133:19] case of energy resistance I think that [133:22] most people will be familiar with is [133:23] like a heart attack. [133:24] >> Mhm. [133:25] >> [clears throat] [133:25] >> My dad had a heart attack [133:27] a few years ago and he woke up during [133:30] the night with this terrible contraction [133:32] like a pressure in in the chest and he [133:35] said it was like 400 lb like pressure on [133:37] his chest, terrible pain, worst pain [133:39] he's ever had. [133:41] What what's happening? Like where where [133:42] what is that pain? The source of that [133:44] pain really is blood flow can no longer [133:47] bring oxygen to mitochondria in the [133:49] heart. [133:49] >> Oh, so the mitochondria are like [133:51] panicking. [133:52] >> Yeah. So, panicking is kind of a We're [133:55] imposing now an experience onto a [133:57] biological process, but you have the [133:59] electrons that are flowing through [134:00] mitochondria all the time. They're [134:01] flowing on oxy onto oxygen, right? From [134:03] food to oxygen and they're just nice [134:05] freely floating. That feels great. It or [134:07] it feels like you know, just normal [134:09] life. And then all of a sudden there's [134:11] no more oxygen. So the electron, I have [134:13] nowhere to go. That feels terrible. The [134:15] electrons can't flow so they start to [134:17] back flow. That is what causes oxidative [134:19] stress. [134:20] That's why the heart gets damaged during [134:22] a heart attack. [134:23] Right? Cuz the electrons can't flow to [134:25] oxygen because of this little clot. [134:27] And for some reason that we don't really [134:29] understand [134:31] this feels extremely aversive. So what [134:32] you experienced there by holding your [134:34] breath, and anyone who's listening to [134:35] this can try on their own, hold your [134:38] breath for as long as possible. It feels [134:40] horrible. And now imagine living your [134:42] life with just like 5% 10% [134:45] of this horrible feeling. Like you wake [134:47] up in the morning and you have this like [134:50] trace of like running out of energy, [134:53] right? Running out of oxygen. Uh I think [134:56] that's what some mental illnesses feel [134:58] like. [134:59] And there's very interesting data [135:01] showing that if you inject people with a [135:03] signal of energetic stress, lactate, you [135:06] can trigger a panic attack. [135:09] You're not messing with the brain there. [135:11] You're not like, you know, [135:13] kind of doing something to the to [135:15] neurochemistry. What you're doing is [135:16] you're injecting the human body with a [135:19] signal that the mitochondria can't keep [135:21] up with energy flow. You're tricking the [135:23] body into thinking that energy [135:24] resistance has just been jacked up to [135:27] very high levels. This feels like [135:29] anxiety. And people with traumatic [135:31] memories, like post-traumatic stress [135:33] disorder, PTSD, [135:35] the simple injection of an energetic [135:37] stress signal of lactate in the blood [135:38] can reawaken traumatic memories. So [135:41] there's this emerging notion in [135:43] psychiatry called in metabolic [135:45] psychiatry, [135:46] where people understand mental illnesses [135:48] as energetic disorders of the brain. And [135:50] what I think is is happening in those [135:52] kind of chronic state of of ill being, [135:55] right? Where people don't feel [135:56] themselves. They don't feel well. They, [135:57] you know, the hypervigilance, the [135:59] anxiety. It's quite likely at this point [136:02] I think that part of that is driven by [136:03] energy not flowing properly. And then [136:05] the body just lives in high energy [136:07] resistance all the time. And there's [136:08] data directly measuring energy [136:10] resistance in the brain from a group of [136:12] McLean and and Harvard. [136:14] And then lactate tends to be elevated in [136:17] people with mental illness. And this [136:18] marker GDF15 also is elevated in mental [136:21] illness. [136:22] >> And so the cure again or the the thing [136:24] to ease that is all the lifestyle [136:25] factors that we talked about. Purpose [136:27] and [136:28] so we've covered that ground. [136:29] >> Yeah, [136:30] life changes, you know, changing your [136:32] life circumstances that's really hard to [136:34] do. Uh exercising seems to help a lot of [136:36] people but a lot of people don't feel [136:38] they have the capacity to exercise. [136:40] Uh and ketones seem to be [136:42] uh life-saving for some people. Going on [136:45] a ketogenic diet and I've met now dozens [136:47] of individuals whose lives were crushed [136:51] by you know, schizoaffective disorder, [136:53] bipolar disorder, major depressive [136:55] disorder. And they were treatment [136:57] resistant, right? Meaning like the [136:59] pharmacotherapy, the drugs that they [137:00] were given were not helping, in some [137:02] cases were making things worse. [137:04] Uh with difficult side effects and then [137:06] they change their diet. [137:08] Cutting all sugars and they went on a [137:10] ketogenic diet, medical ketogenic [137:13] therapy. [137:14] Uh and then they started to monitor [137:15] ketones. And many people reported, you [137:19] know, that this was life-changing. Like [137:22] first the first thing they many people [137:23] notice is they have more energy. The [137:25] ketogenic diet does not work for [137:27] everyone. [137:27] >> Mhm. [137:28] >> We [clears throat] don't know why. [137:30] And [137:31] the same way that we're all different, [137:33] we all respond differently to even [137:34] medications, right? They're supposed to [137:36] work the same for everyone. We have a [137:38] science of averages. [137:40] Like the science that we use to get [137:42] knowledge to inform our lives is [137:45] almost entirely a science of averages. [137:47] Meaning like all of the studies we do, [137:49] like the the highest gold standard [137:51] studies we consider to be RCTs, [137:53] randomized controlled trials. These [137:56] RCTs, if you run an RCT, what you do is [137:58] you take let's say a thousand people, [138:00] then you randomize half 500 into this [138:02] group, normal diet, and then 500 into [138:04] ketogenic diet. And then you say, [138:06] "Great. Now, let's look at their [138:08] depressive symptoms, right? Or or their [138:09] anxiety symptoms." And then you have [138:11] them on the diet for [138:13] 2 months, and then after you assess, and [138:15] then you compare the groups, right? You [138:17] lump 500 human beings together, and you [138:19] say, "What's the average depression or [138:21] anxiety symptoms in this in these 500 [138:23] people?" Then you average these people [138:25] together, and then you group them, and [138:27] then you compare means. [138:28] >> And I guess the other important point [138:30] here is gender, which is so many of [138:32] these studies were [138:33] skewed towards men in many cases, and [138:36] that doesn't apply to women a lot of the [138:38] time. [138:38] >> Yep. [138:39] >> And this is part of the reason we've had [138:40] so many conversations on this show about [138:41] women's health is because we're just now [138:43] discovering that, you know, once upon a [138:45] time scientists would treat women like [138:47] little men [138:48] >> Yeah. [138:48] >> and assume that everything used to apply [138:50] when actually we're entirely different. [138:51] And so [138:52] >> Correct. [138:52] >> this averages thing, you also need to [138:54] think about the nuances of like who, [138:55] gender, where they're from, their [138:56] biology, their DNA. You just said that [138:58] you you get the skinny fat thing or the [139:00] visceral fat, whatever. I don't get [139:02] that. [139:02] >> Mhm. [139:03] >> But if we were doing an average of like [139:04] three people yeah, maybe we'd come to a [139:06] conclusion based on me and hit me and [139:08] the other person who's like me, but that [139:10] wouldn't apply to you. [139:11] >> Yeah. So and that's really problematic. [139:13] Like all of the the health [139:14] recommendations that we have and the the [139:17] way drugs get approved uh and the way we [139:20] determine whether a drug is useful or [139:22] not for disease X or or Y is by [139:24] comparing groups. And whenever you you [139:26] peel the surface of a clinical study of [139:28] an RCT you find some people like are [139:31] amazing responders, and they're cured. [139:33] They don't have symptoms. And then some [139:34] people don't respond. These are called [139:35] non-responders. And then some people get [139:37] worse. [139:38] >> The most [139:40] commented thing across the videos you [139:41] featured on [139:42] um and the most passionate thing, uh the [139:45] most urgent thing according to the the [139:46] people that were watching your work [139:48] that they wanted to ask you [139:50] was about long COVID, ME/CFS, I'm not [139:53] sure what that is, and fibromyalgia. [139:57] Um for patients with ME, CFS, and you'll [139:59] have to explain to me what that is, or [140:01] long COVID, the standard advice given is [140:03] to exercise for mitochondrial health. [140:06] Um, but for them it often triggers [140:08] severe crashes. What is happening at the [140:10] cellular level when the energy budget is [140:12] broken, and how can these individuals [140:15] safely rehabilitate their mitochondria [140:18] without causing further damage? [140:20] >> Yeah. [140:21] That's a really tough problem. And [140:24] >> This was the most repeatedly the most [140:26] liked, the most commented thing on your [140:28] videos. [140:29] Because these people are suffering and [140:30] they're just not being given answers, I [140:32] guess. [140:32] >> Yeah. In the US, there is an estimated [140:35] like 3 to 5 million people who have [140:37] either myalgic encephalomyelitis, [140:41] chronic fatigue syndrome ME/CFS, or, you [140:43] know, long COVID version of this. [140:46] Uh, in the UK, it's somewhere between [140:48] like 2 and 3 million, I think. And then [140:50] worldwide, there's 20 to 24 million [140:52] people have these syndromes, right? [140:55] >> What are the symptoms for someone that [140:57] hasn't experienced it? What are the [140:58] symptoms that they're experiencing? [141:00] >> Chronic fatigue. [141:01] >> Just always being sort of tired, no [141:03] energy, feeling low energy. [141:04] >> Yeah. Feeling low energy, um, is is an [141:07] experience, right? So, it's you go to [141:10] your doctor and you say, "I feel so [141:10] tired." And then you look in the blood [141:12] work and everything's fine. But so, [141:13] there's a disconnect between what we [141:16] know how to measure biochemically and [141:18] then what the person is experiencing. We [141:20] don't have a good understanding of the [141:21] connection between the biology and the [141:24] biochemistry in the blood and even [141:26] process in the brain and how people [141:27] feel. [141:28] So, there's a disconnect here. And, [141:30] ME/CFS, you know, chronic fatigue, [141:33] long COVID, these people have been a [141:36] little bit ostracized from the medical, [141:39] you know, community because [141:41] doctors are are really stuck. They have [141:43] these patients which are really [141:44] difficult, you know, patients to to deal [141:47] with. First, they don't know what's [141:49] wrong with them. And second, they don't [141:50] have tools to help them get better. [141:52] Uh and and then the classical thing is [141:55] well, exercise, but then many of these [141:56] people, when they exercise, they [141:58] actually get worse. And and there's some [142:00] studies that show increased [142:01] inflammation. So, those signals of [142:03] energy resistance [142:05] increase energy friction in the body, uh [142:07] go up after exercise in a normal person. [142:10] In these people with chronic fatigue, it [142:12] seems like they can skyrocket and then [142:14] that leads to this uh post-exertional [142:17] malaise. Right? We talked earlier about [142:19] how [142:20] the marker of energetic stress, GDF15, [142:22] can go to the brain and make you feel [142:23] sick, right? Or make you feel, you know, [142:25] nauseous or, you know, tired. Other [142:27] cytokines from the immune system, when [142:29] you're sick uh when you're fighting an [142:31] infection, do the same thing. The best [142:32] study on on mitochondria and uh chronic [142:35] fatigue syndrome was published last year [142:37] or the year before, and it showed that [142:39] there is [142:41] a deficiency [142:42] in energy transformation in the [142:44] mitochondria of the muscle. They took [142:46] muscle biopsies, little piece of muscle [142:47] from the from the quad, from the the [142:49] thigh, and then they looked at how well [142:51] can the mitochondria in the muscle of [142:52] people with chronic fatigue syndrome [142:54] flow energy. [142:55] And what they found is the capacity is [142:57] much lower. If the mitochondria can't [142:58] flux energy properly, you should feel [143:00] like you don't have the capacity to [143:02] push, right? To exercise. [143:05] So, why is that? Why do those people [143:06] have you lower mitochondrial energy [143:09] transformation capacity? We don't know. [143:12] There's so many stories, and I I've been [143:15] curious and interested about this. Uh [143:17] and I remember uh this uh family friend [143:20] who came for dinner uh one night, and [143:23] she uh she was asking me, "What do you [143:25] work on? And what do you do?" And so, I [143:26] tell her we work on mitochondria and [143:28] psychobiology, mitochondrial [143:30] psychobiology, how the mind and the body [143:32] relate, you know, energetically. Uh and [143:34] she said, "Well, I have an interesting [143:35] story for you." I said, "Okay. What's [143:37] the story?" She said, "I used to have [143:39] chronic fatigue syndrome." So, I I [143:40] perked up. I was like, "What happened?" [143:42] >> [laughter] [143:42] >> She was visibly an energetic person. She [143:44] didn't It didn't look like she had, you [143:46] know, a an issue with energy. Though she [143:49] said she was in her 20s and she had like [143:52] she was debilitated, she couldn't work [143:53] and you know she lived in this place and [143:56] you know her life was kind of you know [143:58] completely upside down because she [144:00] didn't have energy to do anything. [144:02] Which is I think a common story and she [144:04] was in bed like multiple hours you know [144:06] every day and struggling to go get [144:08] groceries and [144:10] everything [clears throat] was a drag [144:11] about life and then one summer [144:13] this guy from Hawaii which was a friend [144:15] of a friend came over [144:17] for the for the summer just doing for a [144:19] little trip and they had an affair. She [144:21] had a boyfriend and this was long time [144:24] that she that she had a you know a human [144:26] connection like this. [144:27] >> So you're saying [144:28] >> I'm not saying [144:30] >> [laughter] [144:31] >> What what ended what ended up happening [144:33] is she said my chronic fatigue kind of [144:35] lifted and I didn't have to do anything [144:38] and then after that summer she never had [144:40] chronic fatigue again. [144:41] And she kind of reintegrated the normal [144:44] life. I don't know what the lesson is [144:46] here. I don't know if there's a [144:47] generalizable principle but there's a [144:49] lot of those stories where people end up [144:52] in a really dark place in their life and [144:54] either they're diagnosed with a mental [144:55] illness or with chronic fatigue syndrome [144:57] or with kind of [144:59] a somato you know psychosomatic you know [145:02] label or [145:03] whatever that is. There's always kind of [145:05] precipitating conditions. Sometimes it's [145:08] in response to a medical interventions [145:10] like immunization, sometimes it's in [145:12] response to you know an infection or [145:15] like a parasite. [145:15] >> Mold and stuff like that. There's people [145:17] that have like mold poisoning or [145:19] whatever and they get [145:20] >> Yeah, very often there's like a trigger. [145:22] There's like sometimes a lingering kind [145:24] of [145:25] condition and then sometimes there's an [145:27] acute trigger and the body's never able [145:29] to fully recover. So [145:31] what do we take from that you know story [145:33] of a of a summer fling? [145:35] >> Well I take from it hope. [145:37] >> Yeah. [145:38] >> That you know even when the cards seem [145:40] to be stacked against you and it feels [145:41] like you might have to live with this [145:42] thing for a long time. But in many [145:44] cases, rem- miraculous things happen [145:46] that defy the odds. And hope itself, I [145:48] think, it can keep us in an optimistic [145:51] mind- mindset. [145:52] >> I've seen this in patients with [145:53] mitochondrial diseases as well. You [145:55] know, these people are diagnosed with a [145:56] genetically defined mitochondrial [145:57] disease. Their mitochondria can't flow [145:59] energy properly. So, every day they live [146:02] probably with this kind of discomfort [146:04] of, you know, holding your breath for [146:06] too long. [146:06] >> Mhm. [146:07] >> And everything's difficult about life. [146:08] Many of them lose hope. And And when you [146:11] you see them losing hope, they start to [146:12] go downhill physically, and many of them [146:14] die very early. [146:16] The people who do the best, like, their [146:18] mitochondria don't work the way they [146:20] should, [146:21] but they're they're able to find [146:23] something that they love. They're able [146:24] to, you know, find an expression for for [146:26] themselves. And they're to have [146:28] supportive family. Almost a universal [146:30] theme for people who do well is they [146:31] have [146:32] a supportive, you know, environment. And [146:35] cultivating this is is so precious. And [146:37] it brings us back maybe to social [146:39] connections. You know, you [146:41] energetic process, me energetic process. [146:44] When we interact, [146:45] you know, through um through sounds and [146:48] and, you know, physically shaking hands [146:50] and [146:51] and I feel your energy, I feel your [146:53] excitement, you feel mine. And then, you [146:55] know, we we might vibe and resonate. And [146:57] And then maybe, you know, you find [146:58] someone and you feel love for that [146:59] person. I think love is the experience [147:01] of resonance. [147:02] Right? And And when you feel that with [147:04] someone, it feels so special. [147:06] >> Which goes back to the affair point. [147:08] >> Yeah, maybe. [laughter] [147:09] >> Maybe. [147:10] On this point of exercise, which we [147:11] talked about earlier, if someone wants [147:12] to maximize mitochondrial biogenesis, [147:15] what is the sweet spot for training? Is [147:17] it strictly zone two cardio or high [147:19] intensity interval training or [147:21] resistance training or something else? [147:22] Is there like an optimal type of [147:23] training? [147:24] >> Yeah. I think the key principle here is [147:26] anything that will make you breathe [147:28] harder [147:29] >> Yeah. [147:29] >> means that your mitochondria are working [147:31] harder. [147:31] >> Okay, but you don't want to do it too [147:32] long. [147:33] >> If you're not trained, right? Like, [147:35] you're regular guy. I'm not trained now. [147:37] I I I I run for like [147:40] 20 minutes every other day. That's my [147:42] you know, routine. That's what I I have [147:44] enough time to do and I feel like it [147:46] moves energy through my body in the [147:47] right way. [147:48] >> [laughter] [147:48] >> But if I go and I try to run a marathon, [147:50] I'm going to injure myself. You know, [147:52] I'm going to hurt myself. So that would [147:54] be too much for me. And so [147:57] I think that comes back to the point of [147:59] like feeling into your energy. We call [148:01] this mitoception, right? Feeling into [148:03] your mitochondria and what's [148:04] sustainable. So I think there's a an [148:06] individualized you know, stance that we [148:08] need to take towards this. [148:10] >> And the last question from the audience [148:12] was, "Right now mitochondrial health [148:14] feels a bit invisible. Are there any [148:17] accessible reliable tests like ATP blood [148:21] tests or specific biomarkers that a [148:23] normal person can use to accurately [148:25] measure their mitochondrial function?" [148:27] >> Working on it. [148:28] >> You're working on it. [148:29] >> So routine is working on it and so we're [148:31] building [148:33] a platform a technology platform that [148:36] would allow people to tune into their [148:38] mitochondria to mitocept, right? So do [148:40] you feel your energy through your [148:41] mitochondria and then you can make [148:43] better decisions like ketogenic diet. Is [148:45] this helping you? Is this not helping [148:46] you? This new relationship, is this [148:48] sucking away your energy or [148:50] is this giving you energy? This new job, [148:53] this new you know, direction in life. [148:56] There's so much. I mean, all of the [148:58] important decisions we make [149:00] really you know, we make what how we [149:02] feel. Like you wake up in the morning [149:04] and either [149:06] you feel great and you can change things [149:08] or you wake up and and you don't want to [149:09] be here. That's an experience and before [149:13] you get there, you know, on the dark [149:14] side there's all of these [149:16] decision points that that we face and [149:18] the power of discernment. [149:20] Right? Then what we talked about like [149:22] with Steve Jobs like this is the way and [149:25] and then you know, you feel strong about [149:27] this discerning what's right for you, [149:28] what's not right for you, what's the [149:29] right direction, is it the right time or [149:31] not? Those are decisions we make, you [149:33] know, with our guts. And there are many [149:35] people who who swear that this is the [149:37] only way they make decisions. And if [149:39] they make decisions rationally, that [149:40] ends up biting them in the butt. Because [149:43] I think the this thing [149:45] and this energetic system is the most [149:47] sensitive instrument that we have [149:50] to know whether [149:52] the content of our lives is aligned with [149:54] who we are as individuals. [149:56] And that requires that we feel into [150:00] this movement and into our sensations [150:02] and into [150:03] um [150:04] the experiences we have. So, that's the [150:06] the barometer that really guides us [150:07] through life, like a GPS. [150:09] An energetic GPS. [150:12] >> Talk to Martin. We have a closing [150:14] tradition on this podcast where the last [150:15] guest leaves a question for the next [150:16] guest not knowing who they're leaving it [150:17] for. And the question that has been left [150:19] for you is what is the most difficult [150:23] thing you ever overcame and how did it [150:26] make you the person you are today? [150:33] >> [sighs] [150:36] >> So, I just felt my energy change. [150:38] >> Mhm. I saw it change. [150:40] >> I felt like this sinking feeling. [150:45] About a year ago, um um [150:47] my fiance and I were expecting a baby. [150:51] >> [sighs] [150:51] >> And we were about 3 months into the [150:55] pregnancy and [150:57] it was great. We were excited. Um we [150:59] were calling this [151:01] new life, new life. [151:03] >> [laughter] [151:03] >> And we talked, you know, affectionately [151:05] about it and [151:06] we said like, you know, when new life [151:07] comes this and we both have a a child [151:10] and [151:12] um and she was in Canada. She came back [151:14] and then [151:15] uh and that evening in in bed she had [151:18] this like crazy pain that started and [151:22] uh [151:23] and we were both super scared. There was [151:25] a bit of bleeding and then and then [151:27] contractions started to come really [151:29] fast. Not supposed to happen at 3 [151:31] months. [151:32] Um and then I was like, "Oh, maybe this [151:34] is just like a bump in the road, and and [151:37] you know, things are going to be fine." [151:39] Um so [151:41] we ended up having a miscarriage, and [151:43] Nerosha didn't want to go to the [151:45] hospital, so we did this at home. [151:48] And it was terrible. It was really [151:51] really sad, really, you know, [151:53] gut-wrenching. [151:55] So we were were both devastated when, [151:57] you know, new life left us, and and then [152:00] I had this moment of like, "Why me?" [152:04] Like, "Why the this has happened to [152:05] me?" Like, "I'm [152:07] I think I'm a good person. I'm doing my [152:09] best to bring good in the world." [152:11] I tried to be a good partner, a good [152:14] um you know, leader. I tried to Yeah. [152:18] Why is this happening to me?" So this [152:19] was like this victim, you know, [152:20] mentality mindset. [152:22] And I've learned through [152:25] my 40 or so years that I think a a [152:28] useful stance to take in life is [152:30] to assume that there's something to [152:32] learn from everything you go through. [152:34] >> Mhm. [152:35] >> [clears throat] [152:35] >> I don't know this for sure. It's not a a [152:37] scientific fact. It's more of a uh [152:40] >> [clears throat] [152:40] >> of an experience turned into kind of a [152:42] way of of living, more of a belief. [152:46] So I was like, "But [152:47] how could there be something to learn [152:48] from something so terrible?" [152:50] Um [152:52] and I I had to sit with this, and [152:54] 2 days later [152:56] after the baby had gone, and Nerosha and [152:58] I had sat in the shower and cried, and [153:01] the smell was horrible, and just it was [153:04] death. Like, death was around us, around [153:06] me, and I felt angry, and I felt sad. [153:10] Um and I just sat down and and wrote. I [153:13] I just And that's my way now of letting [153:15] things flow. Different people have [153:18] different ways, and then and [153:20] I was writing about my experience and [153:23] why now and [153:24] and I asked, "What is there to learn [153:26] from this?" [153:27] And a very clear answer [153:29] came up. [153:31] Slowing down. [153:38] And that hit really hard because [153:40] throughout my whole life, I've moved [153:42] pretty quickly through life. I had a [153:43] very [153:45] short, you know, PhD then I became a [153:48] professor very quickly and [153:50] uh [153:51] and grew a team and um and like moving [153:54] fast is kind of something that's like a [153:55] personality trait that I I do and [153:58] uh and I think sometimes it's served me. [154:00] It's allowed me to do some things that [154:02] you would not have been possible [154:03] otherwise, but [154:05] at other times I think it's hurt me and [154:07] it's like this drive, this inner drive [154:09] like things must happen now, must move [154:11] fast. [154:13] I think it's hurt other people around [154:14] and has impaired my ability to be an [154:16] effective leader cuz I then [154:19] maybe I lack sensitivity to other people [154:21] who don't move at my pace. [154:23] Uh [154:24] to slowing down [154:26] really kind of [154:27] um hit home. [154:30] The things were like clear. It was like [154:31] looking at a canvas and [154:34] there was more contrast. [154:36] Like the things that really mattered [154:38] were like sharper, right? And all of [154:40] this other like these obligations [154:42] and these [154:43] things that I had said yes to or like, [154:46] you know, the contrast was so much [154:48] sharper. Um [154:50] and this [154:51] lesson, I think I I took this as a [154:53] lesson, slowing down, I think has [154:56] allowed me to be a better listener, to [154:58] be a better, you know, more [155:00] compassionate father and [155:02] uh scientist. [155:03] Uh I think it's changed me. [155:05] And I don't know that I would have [155:08] learned that lesson [155:11] in another way. We are the this [155:14] energetic process that's shaped by the [155:16] sum of our experiences and the people we [155:19] meet. Like, I'll never be the same after [155:21] today from having sat with you at this [155:23] table and you opening the door [155:26] not just to scientific inquiry, but to [155:28] human experience. [155:30] Um [155:32] yeah, the [155:33] we we change all the time. We transform [155:35] and [clears throat] what shapes us is [155:38] those kind of [155:39] energetic interactions and [155:41] um [155:42] >> [clears throat] [155:42] >> yeah, everything we go through. [155:45] >> Well, I'll never be the same either. [155:47] For for I think all the best reasons. [155:49] I'm I you know, I have to say that I'm [155:51] I'm [155:52] I'm hesitating my words here because of [155:55] the gratitude that you've taken from the [155:57] wisdom that it's given you, but I'm [156:00] terribly sorry that that hap you had to [156:01] go through that. I can only I just can't [156:03] imagine. It's one of my Honestly, it's [156:05] one of my like worst nightmares, [156:06] especially at the season of life I'm in [156:07] when me and my partner and my fiance are [156:09] trying to have a kid. It's just like I [156:10] think I think I'm thinking about [156:12] those things now and how I would I'm [156:14] like pre-empting how I would handle [156:16] those kinds of things. So, to hear that [156:17] it happened to you is just it's um [156:20] it's really hard It's really difficult [156:21] to hear. [156:22] Um [156:22] >> It happens to about 20 million people a [156:24] year. [156:25] >> Most people don't talk about it, either, [156:26] do they? [156:27] >> People don't talk about it. [156:28] >> Yeah. Cuz it's shrouded in mixed [156:30] emotions and [156:32] yeah, I can understand that. [156:33] >> Yeah. [156:36] >> But I am better off for having this [156:37] conversation with you and I think, you [156:39] know, I speak on behalf of my audience [156:40] for sure this time when I say that I [156:42] think my audience are as well. I've [156:43] learned so much. It's actually kind of [156:44] like completely re-changed how I think [156:46] about life itself, which is a weird [156:47] thing. Mhm. And I hope I can just let [156:48] sit in this moment a little bit and [156:50] think about how I am energy and how how [156:53] that's determining everything um around [156:55] me and others and [156:58] and it's um it's really really [157:00] wonderful. I think what you know, what [157:01] you're doing, people might think of you [157:02] as like a my mitochondrial scientist, [157:04] but actually it's much more deeper and [157:06] much more philosophical than that. When [157:07] we think about what energy is to us, [157:09] it's it is everything. Mhm. And that's [157:11] really the lens that you've given me [157:12] today is you've completely changed my [157:13] mind on like how I think about life, [157:15] which is such a wonderful thing to get [157:16] from a podcast. I don't say this like I [157:18] don't kiss people people's asses like [157:19] this. Like I genuinely my mind is like [157:21] hell. [157:22] It's also changed how I think about [157:23] business, which is really weird and I [157:25] >> [laughter] [157:26] >> Um [157:27] >> So business is is an extension of us, of [157:30] you know, energetic. [157:31] >> Like everything is. [157:32] That's what I've learned today. [157:34] >> [laughter] [157:35] >> Quite literally. [157:36] >> And it's also made me think a lot about [157:37] how I preserve, conserve, aim my energy. [157:41] Um [157:43] So Dr. Martin Picard, thank you so much. [157:45] Thank you so much for your generosity [157:46] and your wisdom. It's not very often [157:47] that I have conversations that actually [157:49] like instantly cause this shift in me, [157:51] but this is one of them today. If people [157:53] want to learn more about you and the [157:55] work you're doing, where do we [157:57] channel that energy? [157:59] Where do they go? [158:00] >> The best place for people to go is [158:02] website martinpicard.energy. [158:04] >> Okay. [158:05] >> And then from this website, you'll see [158:07] information about the book, you'll see [158:08] information about the research, core [158:10] energetic principles that cover what [158:13] we've covered today. There are little [158:14] animations and there's information about [158:16] the institute. [158:17] >> Okay. [158:18] Thank you so much. [158:19] >> Thank you. [158:20] >> YouTube have this new crazy algorithm [158:22] where they know exactly what video you [158:24] would like to watch next based on AI and [158:26] all of your viewing behavior. And the [158:28] algorithm says that this video is the [158:31] perfect video for you. It's different [158:33] for everybody looking right now. Check [158:35] this video out. I bet you you might love [158:37] it.