Saronic Builds Texas Shipyard to Counter China's Naval Mass
All-In Podcast
Defense startup Saronic is launching Port Alpha in Brownsville, Texas, to build 10,000 autonomous surface vessels annually and cut ship production costs in half to address China's 230-to-1 shipbuilding advantage over the U.S.
## Background
Published on YouTube by the All-In Podcast on August 6, 2026, this episode features host Jason Calacanis interviewing Saronic co-founders Dino Mavrookas and Vib Alakar. The show's description highlights discussions on autonomous naval rescues, China's 230-to-1 shipbuilding advantage over the U.S., defense procurement reform, and an exclusive announcement regarding their new 4,000-acre Port Alpha shipyard in Brownsville, Texas.
## TL;DR
Saronic co-founders discuss how autonomous surface vessels like the Corsair and Marauder can address the critical naval manufacturing gap between the United States and China. They examine the stark industrial disparity in global shipbuilding, advocating for a transition away from traditional cost-plus defense procurement toward vertically integrated, autonomous hybrid fleets. The conversation highlights the strategic deployment of autonomous craft in high-threat maritime chokepoints and details Saronic's plan to disrupt legacy shipyards. Concluding with a major announcement, the founders unveil Port Alpha in Brownsville, Texas, a multi-billion-dollar initiative designed to halve ship construction costs and revitalize American defense manufacturing.
## Atmosphere & style
The discussion carries an urgent, pragmatic, and patriotic tone that balances sobering geopolitical realities with high-energy technological optimism. Host Jason Calacanis and the Saronic co-founders maintain a dynamic, mission-driven dialogue that bridges military combat realism with Silicon Valley innovation. Moving from stark warnings about declining U.S. industrial capacity to an inspiring rallying cry for national renewal, the episode feels like a compelling, high-stakes defense tech call to action.
## Key takeaways
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=0s) The Navy completed its first fully autonomous rescue operation in the Strait of Hormuz, saving two downed U.S. pilots using Saronic's 24-foot autonomous speedboat, the Corsair.
- [04:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=296s) China holds a massive 230-to-1 shipbuilding advantage over the U.S., producing 23 million gross tons annually compared to the United States' 100,000 gross tons.
- [04:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=296s) China's share of global shipbuilding capacity has risen from 5% thirty years ago to 57% today, allowing it to rapidly expand its naval fleet while the U.S. Navy continues to shrink.
- [08:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=518s) Saronic's autonomous vessel design eliminates human habitability requirements, reducing cost and weight while achieving over 1,000 nautical miles of range on its 24-foot Corsair platform.
- [13:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=784s) Deploying autonomous ships like the 180-foot Marauder dramatically lowers the cost of fielding firepower, offering 320 missile launch tubes per year at a fraction of the cost of a single $3B Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.
- [16:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=972s) The Navy is transitioning toward a hybrid fleet model, leveraging manned command ships for forward decision-making while autonomous surface vessels handle high-threat combat zones.
- [16:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=1013s) New defense primes are bypassing traditional cost-plus contracts by using private venture capital to build products on firm fixed-price contracts, prioritizing speed and cost-effective scaling.
- [16:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=1013s) Despite strategic emphasis on autonomous warfare, only 1% of the total U.S. Department of Defense budget is currently allocated to autonomous systems.
- [17:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=1045s) In narrow chokepoints like the Strait of Hormuz, deploying thousands of low-cost autonomous vessels provides persistent surveillance and defense without risking high-value manned assets.
- [31:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=1896s) Western AI weapon development adheres to DoD Directive 3000.09, keeping policy controls and dynamic rules of engagement in software while expanding operational scale.
- [36:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2193s) Saronic announced Port Alpha in Brownsville, Texas—a landmark 800-acre shipyard with room to expand to 4,000 acres, creating 10,000 jobs over the next decade.
- [40:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2407s) By applying modern software, factory automation, and automotive manufacturing approaches, Saronic aims to reduce U.S. ship construction costs by 50%.
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=0s) First Autonomous Rescue in the Strait of Hormuz
The episode opens with host Jason Calacanis introducing Saronic co-founders Dino Mavrookas and Vib Alakar. Calacanis highlights the high-profile news surrounding the company's autonomous surface vessels, specifically pointing to a groundbreaking mission where a Saronic vessel executed an autonomous rescue operation in the Strait of Hormuz. Mavrookas emphasizes that while the technical achievement is a major milestone for both Saronic and the U.S. Navy, the single most critical outcome was bringing two downed American pilots home safely from a heavily contested environment during ongoing tensions with Iran.
Mavrookas, a former Navy SEAL who served eleven years including five on SEAL Team Six, frames the rescue through the military's bedrock ethos of leaving no one behind. Recalling the tragic 2005 Operation Red Wings incident where a rescue helicopter was shot down while attempting to save four trapped SEALs on an Afghan mountainside, he stresses that Saronic’s technology proves autonomous systems can rescue personnel without risking additional lives. The Navy's willingness to trust a 24-foot fully autonomous speedboat—the *Corsair*—in a high-stakes emergency represents a fundamental shift in operational doctrine.
- The rescue took place in the Strait of Hormuz, rescuing two downed U.S. pilots in a high-threat zone.
- Dino Mavrookas served as a Navy SEAL from 2004 to 2015, including five years with SEAL Team Six.
- The platform used in the operation was the *Corsair*, Saronic's 24-foot fully autonomous speedboat.
[04:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=296s) China's Shipbuilding Dominance: Outbuilding the West 230-to-1
Shifting to macro defense strategy, Calacanis and Mavrookas discuss the dramatic erosion of American shipbuilding capacity compared to the Chinese Communist Party. Mavrookas provides stark numbers: the United States currently has the capacity to construct roughly 100,000 gross tons of shipping annually, whereas China builds 23 million gross tons per year. This gives China a 230-to-1 industrial advantage over the U.S., driven by aggressive state subsidies on raw materials, labor, and direct construction that undercuts global commercial pricing by 5 to 6 times.
Thirty years ago, China possessed only 5% of global shipbuilding capacity, but today commands 57% and continues to expand its monopoly. This commercial baseline directly underpins naval power. In 2025, the U.S. Navy built only nine ships while retiring nineteen, shrinking the operational fleet to 296 vessels—well below the statutory minimum of 355 mandated by Congress in 2018. Meanwhile, China delivered around 30 naval ships, expanding its fleet to roughly 370 vessels with projections to reach 450 rapidly. In commercial vessel production over the past year, China delivered over 1,000 ships while the U.S. produced just five. In a total war scenario, China's vast commercial yard capacity would immediately convert into military output.
- Gross tonnage output: U.S. produces ~100,000 gross tons/year vs. China's ~23,000,000 gross tons/year.
- China's share of global shipbuilding capacity rose from 5% thirty years ago to 57% today.
- Commercial production disparity: China delivered >1,000 commercial ships last year; the U.S. built only 5.
- U.S. Navy fleet status: Currently at 296 ships despite a congressional mandate of 355 ships set in 2018; retired 19 ships while building only 9 last year.
- Chinese Navy fleet status: Currently ~370 ships, pacing toward 450 vessels.
[08:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=518s) Engineering Autonomous Mass and the *Corsair*
Co-founder Vib Alakar breaks down how Saronic approaches vessel design to bypass traditional manufacturing bottlenecks and achieve large-scale mass. Removing human crew requirements eliminates significant structural weight, financial cost, and engineering complexity—such as dedicated human electrical grids, living quarters, plumbing, doors, and stairwells. Without human physical limits, autonomous craft can be end-to-end optimized for superior speed, range, payload capacity, and control authority, allowing a 24-foot craft to achieve an operational range of over 1,000 nautical miles.
Mavrookas explains the origin of the company's name, drawing from the Saronic Gulf near Athens, site of the historic Battle of Salamis. In that engagement, an outnumbered Greek fleet lured larger Persian ships into narrow straits, using smaller, more maneuverable vessels to defeat a massive adversary. Saronic adopts this philosophy to change the unit economics of naval warfare, deploying massed autonomous units rather than relying exclusively on ultra-expensive manned flagship surface combatants.
- Saronic's 24-foot *Corsair* autonomous surface vessel costs approximately $1,000,000 per unit.
- The *Corsair* achieves a operational range exceeding 1,000 nautical miles without requiring human habitability systems.
- Etymology: Named after the Saronic Gulf, site of the naval Battle of Salamis where smaller Greek vessels defeated a larger Persian force.
[13:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=784s) $3B Destroyers vs. The *Marauder*: The Economics of Firepower
Mavrookas details the vast cost asymmetry between legacy defense platforms and Saronic’s autonomous vessels using Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes—which fire Tomahawk and other large strike missiles—as the primary metric for fielded firepower. A traditional Arleigh Burke-class destroyer costs approximately $3 billion to purchase (excluding billions more in lifecycle sustainment over 30 to 40 years) and takes 6 to 8 years to construct. A single destroyer carries roughly 96 VLS tubes, meaning the Navy fields only 10 to 15 VLS tubes per year per destroyer build, at a cost of roughly $30 million per fielded tube.
By contrast, Saronic's 180-foot fully autonomous ship, the *Marauder*, can carry 16 VLS tubes on its deck. Saronic's shipyard in Louisiana is being scaled to build 20 *Marauders* per year. This manufacturing capacity enables Saronic to field 320 VLS missile tubes per year at a fraction of the cost of a single traditional destroyer, offering a method to rapidly scale navy firepower while saving taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.
- Cost of a traditional U.S. Navy destroyer: ~$3,000,000,000 upfront (with ~$10,000,000,000 total lifecycle cost over 30-40 years) with a 6 to 8 year build timeline.
- A destroyer fields 96 VLS (Vertical Launch System) tubes, equaling ~10 to 15 fielded tubes per build-year at ~$30,000,000 per tube.
- The Saronic *Marauder* is an 180-foot fully autonomous vessel capable of carrying 16 VLS tubes.
- Planned production rate: 20 *Marauders* per year built at Saronic's shipyard in Louisiana, yielding 320 VLS tubes fielded annually.
[016:12] The Hybrid Navy & Vertically Integrated Production
Building effective maritime autonomy requires working directly with active operators to understand what capabilities are needed in the field. Rather than creating standalone gadgets, Saronic focuses on integration—such as packing Vertical Launching System (VLS) tubes onto the back of their vessel, Marauder, to support long-range fires. The core objective is keeping sailors out of harm's way without sacrificing combat relevance. The future force structure will not be entirely robotic; instead, the Navy is moving toward a hybrid fleet where manned ships provide forward-deployed decision-makers while autonomous vessels handle high-threat combat zones.
To achieve rapid, low-cost production, Saronic takes a first-principles approach modeled on modern automotive manufacturing. In traditional shipbuilding, low demand—sometimes just five commercial ships a year nationwide—means component suppliers have little reason to scale or modernize. Saronic bypasses these bottlenecks through vertical integration, investing directly in the supply chain to digitize components that have historically been entirely analog. By automating routine monitoring tasks, such as engine room mechanics that previously required manual oversight, the entire software stack absorbs routine operational maintenance.
Furthermore, hardware advancements since the early days of autonomous technology allow Saronic to leverage modern, off-the-shelf compute hardware rather than designing custom ASIC chips from scratch. While sensor packages and custom electronics are developed internally, owning both the software architecture and the physical shipyard allows software engineers, naval architects, and welders to work together side-by-side, achieving end-to-end optimizations that traditional defense procurement historically prevented.
- Traditional Navy ship designs are heavily fragmented, with approximately 70% of sequence-critical components sourced from single-supplier lock-ins.
- Operating on modern software control stacks allows remote diagnostics via APIs, removing the need for crew members to monitor engine coolant pressure manually.
- Internal production is designed so that raw materials enter one side of the facility and fully operational autonomous ships exit the other.
---
[016:53] Transitioning to "New Primes" and the Death of Cost-Plus
The traditional defense procurement model relies heavily on cost-plus contracts, which guarantee a 10% to 15% margin on top of total project expenses. While not inherently malicious, this framework creates a structural disincentive to save money or deliver quickly: a $100 million project yields $15 million in profit, whereas a delayed $1 billion program nets $150 million. Saronic and other "New Primes" are disrupting this model by leveraging private venture capital to build products on firm fixed-price contracts, bearing the upfront research and development risks themselves.
```
Traditional Defense Primes vs. New Primes Model
Cost-Plus Contracts (Legacy)
[ Navy Pays Costs + 15% Margin ] ---> Incentive: Higher Costs & Delays
Firm Fixed-Price / Private Capital (New Primes)
[ Venture Capital R&D ] ----------> Incentive: Speed, Lower Cost & Scale
```
While defense policy is shifting—highlighted by recent executive orders, the Maritime Action Plan, and defense acquisition reform—the actual reallocation of budget remains in its early stages. Despite the strategic focus on autonomy, only 1% of the total defense budget is currently allocated toward autonomous systems. Saronic argues that this allocation must scale rapidly to 5% or more if the nation intends to maintain maritime deterrence.
- Saronic has raised $2.5 billion in private capital over its first four years to fund internal R&D, including the development of the 180-foot Marauder.
- Traditional prime contractors face pressure from public markets to execute stock buybacks rather than investing internal capital into risky hardware development.
- Unifying ship design with shipyard operations eliminates the historic bifurcation where one company designs a vessel and an unrelated shipyard attempts to build it.
> "When you look at the overall Department of Defense budget, 1%—1% goes to autonomous systems. That's not nearly enough. Make that 5%... it needs to go up quickly."
---
[017:25] Securing Bottlenecks: A 10,000 Corsair Scenario in Hormuz
Applying autonomous fleets to real-world chokepoints demonstrates their operational value over traditional surface combatants. The Strait of Hormuz presents an asymmetric challenge: a 20-mile-wide narrow passage connecting the 200-mile-wide Persian Gulf to the Indian Ocean. Adversaries like Iran utilize low-cost tactics—including fast attack craft, floating naval mines, land-based missiles, and cheap drones—to create a chaotic environment where risking a $3 billion manned destroyer is highly impractical.
```
[ Persian Gulf ] (200 Miles Wide)
|
v
+---------------------+
| Strait of Hormuz | <--- Asymmetric Threats: Fast Attack Craft,
| (20 Miles Wide) | Naval Mines, Cheap Drones & Missiles
+---------------------+
|
v
[ Indian Ocean ]
```
Autonomous vessels alter this strategic calculus by introducing persistent, low-cost scale. Rather than relying solely on subscale demonstrators like the 6-foot Cutlass or 15-foot Spyglass, Saronic’s primary production unit is the Corsair. With current manufacturing capacity in Austin, Texas, Saronic can manufacture 2,000 Corsair units per year. Deploying thousands of these vessels enables continuous surveillance, counter-UAS intercept capabilities, and distributed mine clearance without endangering human crews.
Onboard machine learning processes multi-sensor data directly at the edge, allowing the ships to navigate severe ocean conditions and maintain operation even when satellite communications or radio signals are degraded by salt spray or hostile jamming. The software stack translates high-level commander intent into autonomous tactical action across the entire fleet.
- The Persian Gulf is bordered by Iran on the north, with Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar, and Oman along the southern side.
- Saronic’s Austin facility is designed to manufacture thousands of autonomous surface vessels annually under current operations.
- Onboard compute runs localized ML inference for navigation, obstacle avoidance, payload deployment, and target interception independently of continuous shore connectivity.
---
[017:31] China's Robot Dogs and the Threat of AI Weaponry
As potential adversaries like China begin mounting kinetic weapons onto quadruped robots and autonomous platforms, the threat environment is shifting toward mass-produced, low-cost robotic systems. Securing critical maritime bottlenecks or defending island territories against an adversary with vast manufacturing output requires counter-autonomy solutions capable of out-scaling the threat. Using expensive, manned platforms to counter cheap, mass-produced robotic assets is economically unsustainable; maintaining freedom of navigation requires deploying AI-driven, scalable surface fleets capable of responding in real time.
<FollowUp label="Want to know more about Saronic's shipyard expansion plans?" query="Tell me more about Saronic's Port Alpha project in Brownsville, Texas, including its acreage, projected jobs, and manufacturing capacity."/>
[31:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=1896s) Ethics, Autonomous Warfare, and Policy Controls
Addressing the rapid militarization of robotics by global adversaries, Jason Calacanis highlights how China is already deploying weaponized robot dogs—like Boston Dynamics' Spot—and putting them into immediate production without signing UN treaties on AI arms control. When asked about Western standards, Dino Mavrookas explains Department of Defense Directive 3000.09, which regulates how artificial intelligence and autonomous weapon systems are developed and authorized. Despite fears of a "RoboCop" scenario where machines act on their own, AI in Western systems primarily serves to scale operations and differentiate enemy vessels from allies or non-combatants, keeping human intent and government policy firmly in command.
When asked whether strict rules put the U.S. at a disadvantage against an adversary who commands their ships to kill indiscriminately, Dino rejects the premise. He notes that policy and approval thresholds are built dynamically into the software; in a total conflict scenario like a blockade in the Taiwan Strait, commanders can adjust authorization rules instantly to treat any unrecognized vessel as hostile once civilian traffic clears out.
- China is putting weaponized quadruped robots into immediate production without agreeing to UN AI control treaties.
- DoD Directive 3000.09 dictates standard authorization and safety protocols for U.S. autonomous weapon systems.
- Autonomous software allows rules of engagement to scale up or down depending on the threat environment.
[35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2100s) Arming Global Allies and the International Shipbuilding Gap
The conversation turns to international partners, as European allies like Germany, France, and the UK have significantly scaled back naval ship construction, leaving South Korea as one of the few allied nations maintaining robust naval output. Saronic is aggressively pursuing partnerships with friendly democracies across Asia, Europe, and the Middle East to share capabilities. Given that China controls 57% of global shipbuilding, countering their capacity requires a unified effort to stand up sovereign manufacturing lines and forward-deploy production overseas before conflicts erupt.
- China holds 57% of total global commercial shipbuilding capacity.
- Saronic is in active talks with Asian, European, and Middle Eastern partners to establish domestic production lines abroad.
[36:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2193s) Exclusive Announcement: Port Alpha Lands in Brownsville, Texas
Saronic unveils its landmark initiative: Port Alpha, a futuristic shipyard designed to restore American shipbuilding to levels not seen since World War II. While Saronic currently operates a 100-acre shipyard in Franklin, Louisiana—building and scaling its flagship Marauder vessel from 20 to 50 units per year—Port Alpha represents a 10x expansion. Located on an initial 800-acre site in Brownsville, Texas, Port Alpha immediately becomes the largest single shipyard in the United States, with a path to expand up to 4,000 acres.
The multi-billion-dollar project aims to generate 10,000 jobs over the next decade. Developed in partnership with Texas Governor Greg Abbott, Cameron County, and the Port of Brownsville, the facility leverages Texas's business-friendly climate and manufacturing ecosystem. Vibhu Ramesh explains that Austin's unique blend of software talent and industrial labor enables Saronic to co-design the ship and the shipyard simultaneously, similar to modern hardware-software co-design in semiconductor manufacturing.
- **Current Louisiana Facility:** 100 acres in Franklin, LA; scaling Marauder production up to 50 units annually.
- **Port Alpha Site:** 800 acres initially in Brownsville, TX, with expansion capacity up to 4,000 acres.
- **Economic Impact:** Multi-billion-dollar investment creating 10,000 jobs over 10 years.
[40:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2407s) Rebuilding the Defense Workforce and Cutting Ship Costs in Half
Locating Port Alpha down the road from SpaceX's Starbase facility establishes Brownsville as a major advanced manufacturing hub. Saronic is focused on solving the deep-seated labor and supply chain shortages that crippled legacy American shipyards by upskilling workers from automotive and traditional manufacturing. To attract top-tier talent, every welder and pipefitter at Saronic receives competitive wages, full Silicon Valley-style benefits, and equity ownership in the company.
Beyond rebuilding the labor force, Saronic aims to fundamentally disrupt the economics of ship production. Currently, building a ship in the U.S. costs five to six times more than in China. By taking a first-principles approach to hardware design and factory automation, Saronic intends to cut U.S. ship construction costs in half—bringing a $300 million vessel under $150 million without reducing worker pay.
- U.S. commercial ship construction historically costs 5x to 6x more than Chinese ship construction.
- Saronic aims to reduce build costs by 50% (e.g., dropping a $300 million vessel cost to under $150 million).
- All industrial labor staff receive equity, competitive salaries, and full corporate benefits.
[43:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2596s) Hiring Needs and the New Space Race in Defense Tech
As Saronic scales, Vibhu highlights what they look for in incoming talent across their 300+ open job listings on `saronic.com`. In 2026, as AI tools like ChatGPT and Claude rapidly transform workflows, Saronic prioritizes "neuroplastic" individuals who can adapt to digital assistance on the factory floor and modernize traditionally pen-and-paper processes.
Closing out the discussion, Jason commends the founders for stepping up to address a vital national security gap during a period when global democracy has been under pressure. The founders express confidence in a surging defense-tech movement—fueled by companies like Anduril, SpaceX, Palantir, and Saronic—comparing this era's rapid innovation to "our generation's version of the space race."
- **Job Openings:** Over 300 active roles listed on `saronic.com` across software, AI, design, and physical trades.
- Modernizing traditional shipyard operations from legacy pen-and-paper systems to agentic, digital-first workflows.
<ElicitationsGroup message="Explore related aspects of Saronic and defense tech:">
<Elicitation label="Summarize the core specs and capabilities of the Saronic Marauder" query="What are the key specs, capabilities, and mission profiles of Saronic's Marauder autonomous vessel?"/>
<Elicitation label="Analyze China's 57% shipbuilding dominance vs. US capacity" query="Provide a detailed breakdown of China's shipbuilding capacity compared to the United States and how defense startups plan to bridge the gap."/>
</ElicitationsGroup>
[47:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2821s) Urgency, Optimism, and Mission-Driven Innovation
The conversation reaches a passionate crescendo around the sheer scale and necessity of their mission, emphasizing that the United States cannot afford to lose this technological race. The speakers highlight the intense sense of urgency driving their team, noting that a growing ecosystem of new defense tech companies is working with that same relentless focus. Despite the formidable challenge posed by global competitors like China, there is absolute confidence and optimism that when the nation unites behind a collective goal, "nobody can beat us."
This drive translates into a direct appeal to elite technical talent. Instead of joining big tech corporations to optimize ad networks—a path described as "incredibly boring" and ultimately unfulfilling—engineers and builders are encouraged to build critical defense technologies at companies like Saronic. Joining a high-impact mission allows people to do truly meaningful work right out of the gate, where every employee walking through the door each morning is actively shaping history and "quite literally changing the world."
- **Key Themes:** National urgency, revitalizing American manufacturing and defense technology, and recruiting top-tier engineering talent away from consumer tech.
- "Make no mistake about it and we cannot lose... When we put our minds and we get a collective effort behind something, nobody can beat us."
- "If you're thinking about going and optimizing an ad network at some big tech company... it's incredibly boring. Go work at Saronic. You'll get a couple of years into your career and you'll say, 'I'm doing important work.'"
## Notable quotes
> [21:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=1285s) When you look at the overall Department of Defense budget, 1%—1% goes to autonomous systems. That's not nearly enough. Make that 5%... it needs to go up quickly. — Dino Mavrookas
> [47:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2821s) Make no mistake about it and we cannot lose... When we put our minds and we get a collective effort behind something, nobody can beat us. — Dino Mavrookas
> [47:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxHHglA5Eo&t=2840s) If you're thinking about going and optimizing an ad network at some big tech company... it's incredibly boring. Go work at Saronic. You'll get a couple of years into your career and you'll say, 'I'm doing important work.' — Dino Mavrookas
## Mentioned
All-In Podcast, Jason Calacanis, Dino Mavrookas, Vib Alakar, Vibhu Ramesh, Chamath Palihapitiya, David Sacks, David Friedberg, Saronic, U.S. Navy, SEAL Team Six, Corsair, Marauder, Cutlass, Spyglass, Port Alpha, Chinese Communist Party, Strait of Hormuz, Persian Gulf, Taiwan Strait, Brownsville, Texas, Franklin, Louisiana, Austin, Texas, Greg Abbott, SpaceX, Starbase, Anduril, Palantir, Boston Dynamics, Spot, Creative Planning, Northwest Registered Agent, ChatGPT, Claude
Saronic co-founders Dino Mavrookas and Vib Alakar argue that the United States cannot counter China's 230-to-1 shipbuilding advantage through legacy naval procurement, requiring an immediate shift toward mass-produced autonomous surface vessels. By eliminating crew-support requirements and adopting vertically integrated manufacturing, they claim the U.S. Navy can field scalable maritime firepower at a fraction of traditional costs.
The Growing 230-to-1 Naval Shipbuilding Gap (4:56)
According to Saronic co-founder Dino Mavrookas, China has achieved a 230-to-1 industrial shipbuilding advantage over the United States, producing roughly 23 million gross tons annually compared to approximately 100,000 tons in the U.S. Subsidized materials, labor, and yard operations allow China to undercut global commercial prices five- to sixfold, driving its share of global capacity from 5% thirty years ago to 57% today. Over the past year, China delivered more than 1,000 commercial vessels, while U.S. shipbuilders completed only five.
This commercial base directly underpins military capacity. In 2025, the U.S. Navy commissioned nine ships while decommissioning nineteen, contracting the operational fleet to 296 hulls—well below the statutory 355-ship mandate set by Congress in 2018. By comparison, China added roughly 30 naval hulls, growing its fleet to approximately 370 ships with projections toward 450. Mavrookas cautions that in a war scenario, China's vast commercial shipyards can immediately pivot to naval production and repair, while European shipbuilding capacity has contracted, leaving South Korea as one of few allied nations maintaining high-volume output.
Autonomous Architecture and the Unit Economics of Firepower (13:04)
Saronic argues that closing the naval gap requires redefining the unit economics of firepower, using fielded Vertical Launch System (VLS) tubes as the primary metric. A traditional Arleigh Burke-class destroyer costs $3 billion upfront and $10 billion over its 30-to-40-year lifecycle, requiring six to eight years to construct while carrying 96 VLS tubes—translating to roughly 10 to 15 fielded tubes per build-year at approximately $30 million per tube. By contrast, Saronic's 180-foot autonomous vessel, the Marauder, carries 16 VLS tubes. Producing 20 Marauders annually at Saronic's Louisiana shipyard yields 320 fielded missile tubes per year at a fraction of legacy capital costs.
Removing human crews eliminates living quarters, plumbing, and dedicated human electrical grids, allowing platforms to maximize range and payload. Saronic's 24-foot Corsair costs roughly $1 million and achieves an operational range exceeding 1,000 nautical miles. Mavrookas highlights the platform's operational validity through an autonomous mission in the Strait of Hormuz that extracted two downed U.S. pilots from a contested zone, demonstrating that unmanned systems can execute high-risk recovery tasks without endangering additional personnel.
Replacing Cost-Plus Procurement With Vertical Integration
Mavrookas and Alakar assert that traditional defense procurement disincentivizes speed and efficiency through cost-plus contracts, which grant contractors a guaranteed 10% to 15% margin on top of expenses. Under this model, expensive delays generate higher dollar profits than rapid cost-saving deliveries. Saronic operates as a venture-backed "New Prime," utilizing $2.5 billion in private capital raised over four years to fund research and development internally and sell hardware under firm fixed-price contracts.
To bypass legacy supply chains where approximately 70% of sequence-critical components rely on single suppliers, Saronic adopts automotive-style vertical integration. Naval architects, software developers, and welders work in the same facilities, converting analog maritime hardware into digitized, software-monitored components. However, Mavrookas points out an ongoing policy gap: while defense rhetoric increasingly emphasizes autonomy, only 1% of the Department of Defense budget is currently allocated to autonomous systems, an amount he argues must rise to 5% or more to maintain deterrence.
Port Alpha Expansion and Massed Chokepoint Defense (36:33)
To rebuild industrial capacity, Saronic announced Port Alpha in Brownsville, Texas, an initial 800-acre shipyard with expansion potential to 4,000 acres, projected to generate 10,000 jobs over ten years. Alongside its 100-acre yard in Franklin, Louisiana, Saronic aims to scale Marauder output from 20 to 50 vessels per year. By applying automation, vertical design, and equity compensation for industrial trades, the company aims to cut U.S. vessel construction costs by 50%, reducing a typical $300 million build to under $150 million.
Operationally, Saronic designs its fleets for narrow maritime chokepoints like the 20-mile-wide Strait of Hormuz, where risking multi-billion-dollar manned ships against cheap drones, mines, and fast attack craft is cost-ineffective. Saronic's Austin facility can produce up to 2,000 Corsair units annually to provide continuous sensor coverage and threat interception. Addressing ethical concerns over weaponized robotics, Mavrookas notes that U.S. autonomous systems follow DoD Directive 3000.09, keeping human commanders responsible for the dynamic rules of engagement programmed into edge-computing systems.
While Saronic presents a detailed industrial model to counter China's naval expansion, its long-term viability depends on whether the Pentagon moves past legacy procurement inertia and reallocates substantial acquisition budgets from traditional surface combatants into mass-produced autonomous systems.
[21:25] Dino Mavrookas: When you look at the overall Department of Defense budget, 1%—1% goes to autonomous systems. That's not nearly enough. Make that 5%... it needs to go up quickly.
[47:01] Dino Mavrookas: Make no mistake about it and we cannot lose... When we put our minds and we get a collective effort behind something, nobody can beat us.
[47:20] Dino Mavrookas: If you're thinking about going and optimizing an ad network at some big tech company... it's incredibly boring. Go work at Saronic. You'll get a couple of years into your career and you'll say, 'I'm doing important work.'
Original transcript
[0:00] All right everybody, welcome back to the
[0:01] allin interview series. I am thrilled
[0:04] really thrilled because Seronic is a
[0:06] defense company that has been doing
[0:08] amazing work and we are so lucky to have
[0:11] the co-founders here on the program.
[0:13] Welcome to the program Dino Mavukus. How
[0:15] are you sir?
[0:16] >> Doing well. Thanks for having us.
[0:18] >> And uh your co-founder here uh Vib
[0:21] Alakar. Let's talk a little bit about
[0:23] Seronic. Uh and we're going to get into
[0:26] everything but you were in the news. You
[0:29] were in the news because you're making
[0:32] autonomous ships and one of these was
[0:35] used recently in the straight of hormuz.
[0:37] I understand.
[0:38] >> I'm going.
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[1:10] >> I got to start there, Dino. Tell us
[1:12] about the mission. Tell us what
[1:14] happened. This is the first time an
[1:15] autonomous
[1:17] uh ship has ever rescued uh folks in the
[1:20] field. and then we'll get back into your
[1:21] history and everything. But I think like
[1:22] we got to start off with this story
[1:24] because it's incredible.
[1:25] >> It it it's just a huge story and I look
[1:27] I can't get into too many specifics of
[1:29] the operation and the mission for for
[1:31] obvious reasons. But um before we get
[1:34] into what it means for the country, what
[1:36] it means for our company, I mean without
[1:38] saying the most important thing is that
[1:41] those two pilots came home safely
[1:44] regardless of how they got there. Right
[1:46] now, what we were able to demonstrate
[1:47] through this partnership with the Navy,
[1:49] like for us is the Navy actually trusted
[1:52] us in this moment. Lives are on the
[1:54] line. We're going to send this
[1:56] autonomous platform to go and rescue
[1:58] these folks. This is not a patrol. This
[2:00] is not maritime domain awareness. This
[2:02] is the highest stakes of the highest
[2:04] stakes. There's downed American pilots
[2:06] in the Straits of Hormuz. like Corsair,
[2:09] which you actually see right over my
[2:11] right shoulder, which is our 24 foot
[2:13] fully autonomous speedboat for th for
[2:15] those that that don't know. Um, he said,
[2:18] "We're going to use that to rescue the
[2:20] pilots." And that's that's actually like
[2:22] a milestone moment for the country. And
[2:24] I can tell you I'll tell you a personal
[2:26] story firstand kind of what this means,
[2:28] but you know this like leaving people
[2:30] behind in the US military just it's not
[2:32] a thing. Like the US military does not
[2:36] do it, right? Like I was in the Navy
[2:38] Seal teams for 11 years. From 2004 to
[2:42] 2015,
[2:43] uh my last five years were on SEAL team
[2:45] six. I personally experienced 2005 there
[2:49] were four SEALs trapped on a mountain
[2:51] side in Afghanistan and the helicopter
[2:54] got sh got shot down while going to
[2:56] rescue them. So what we were able to
[2:58] prove in this moment was that you can go
[3:01] and rescue people without putting
[3:04] additional soldiers in harm's way.
[3:06] That's that's the impact of what this
[3:08] had. That's what it means for the
[3:10] country and for our company. It was just
[3:13] an extremely proud moment where the Navy
[3:16] trusted us in this high stakes
[3:17] environment.
[3:18] >> Absolutely incredible. And obviously
[3:20] thank you for your service. I and I know
[3:23] you can't get into too many details, but
[3:24] I've been reading all about it and I got
[3:26] to wonder when when these two pilots,
[3:29] did they know that this was an
[3:31] autonomous ship and the ship comes
[3:32] rolling up and they're like, somebody
[3:34] sent them a message, hey, you're going
[3:35] to get picked up by the autonomous ship.
[3:36] Grab the side of it, climb on board.
[3:38] Like, what's the protocol for the
[3:40] autonomous ship picking up two folks?
[3:43] Are they swimming out to it? Well, I I
[3:45] just got to get a little color on this
[3:46] before it becomes a movie.
[3:47] >> I mean, it's the first time that it that
[3:49] it happened, right? And when a ship when
[3:51] a boat pulls up to you and there's
[3:53] nobody on it, you know, you can very
[3:54] quickly deduce that it's fully that it's
[3:57] an autonomous boat. And you know, these
[3:59] pilots were in the water for I don't
[4:02] even know how long. They're in a
[4:04] completely contested environment. We're
[4:06] in a conflict with Iran. They're in the
[4:07] Straits of Hormuz. And we can go through
[4:09] the dynamic there. But they looked at
[4:12] this platform and said that that's my
[4:14] way home,
[4:15] >> right? That that's how I get out of
[4:17] here.
[4:17] >> I love it. All right, let's step back a
[4:19] bit here. You're a Navy Seal uh VIB.
[4:22] You've uh worked in this space for a
[4:24] while. Uh you previously worked at
[4:26] Andrew, I understand. Uh the mission as
[4:29] I understand it for the company uh is to
[4:33] greatly increase our ability in America
[4:36] to produce ships. And for people who
[4:38] don't know, the amount of uh tonnage,
[4:41] the number of ships that we are able to
[4:45] make in America and most western
[4:46] countries is very low. But there's an
[4:49] adversary uh in the Pacific who is able
[4:53] to produce a lot of ships. It's known as
[4:55] the Chinese Communist Party. So maybe
[4:57] from first principles you could just
[4:58] explain what you're building and why
[5:00] it's important and just how insane
[5:05] uh the incompetence of the West in terms
[5:07] of building ships has become. I mean we
[5:09] are really bad at making ships right
[5:12] now. Am I correct?
[5:13] >> We're beyond bad. Uh, let me I'll take a
[5:16] step back and just kind of highlight
[5:18] where we're at and then I'll let Vib go
[5:21] through what we're doing about it, how
[5:24] how we're changing that dynamic. But
[5:26] Jason, what you were saying, right, just
[5:28] to put it in context, the United States
[5:31] can build a 100,000 gross tons of ships
[5:34] every year. Gross ton is this volumetric
[5:36] measure of ship. So if you build, you
[5:38] know, a 200 foot ship, that's different
[5:39] than an 800 foot ship. But let's compare
[5:42] apples to apples. 100,000 gross tons.
[5:46] The Chinese, which you were referencing,
[5:47] can build 23 million gross tons. So,
[5:51] they can out build the US 230 to1. And
[5:54] it wasn't always the case. Right? 30
[5:58] years ago, the Chinese didn't have this
[6:00] capability. They had 5% of the world's
[6:02] ship building capacity. Today, they have
[6:05] 57%
[6:06] of the world ship building capacity. And
[6:08] actually that problem's getting worse
[6:10] because the cons the communist party is
[6:13] just con constantly it's like
[6:15] subsidizing the entire industry. So
[6:17] they're undercutting the commercial
[6:18] market on price. They're not just
[6:19] subsidizing the direct cost to build.
[6:22] They're subsidizing raw material and
[6:23] labor costs. So the ship built in the
[6:26] United States is actually five to six
[6:28] times the cost of that same ship built
[6:30] in China. And so they keep getting more
[6:32] and more orders. So that number is of
[6:34] 57% is just going up. How did they get
[6:37] that capability? Is that because as a
[6:40] manufacturer to the world, they needed
[6:42] to ship out products. So they did this
[6:45] in a commercial way f first or was this
[6:47] always very intentionally we need to own
[6:50] the South Pacific? much revolves around
[6:51] the commercial market and then I'll talk
[6:53] about I want to talk about the status of
[6:55] our navy like where the naval fleet is
[6:58] today what that means and then where the
[7:01] Chinese navy is and where that's going
[7:03] because again 30 years ago the Chinese
[7:05] navy was a lural backwater navy today
[7:08] they have nuclear submarines aircraft
[7:10] carriers and hypersonic missiles so
[7:12] there's a massive massive change over
[7:14] the last 30 years and what's happened in
[7:16] the US ship building industry it's
[7:18] completely declined So the US naval
[7:21] fleet has 296 ships today. There's a
[7:24] congressional mandate statutory minimum
[7:27] of 355 ships that was set by Congress in
[7:30] 2018. That was 8 years ago. Last year we
[7:35] built nine ships, but we retired 19
[7:38] naval vessels. So we're going in the
[7:40] wrong like the completely wrong
[7:42] direction. The Chinese delivered
[7:45] somewhere in the ballpark of 30 ships.
[7:46] Their fleet size is around 370. They'll
[7:49] be at 450 before you know it. But the
[7:52] commercial market is where that
[7:54] discrepancy lies. Even larger, right?
[7:56] They delivered over a thousand
[7:58] commercial ships last year. The United
[8:01] States built five.
[8:03] >> Five. 1 2 3 4 5.
[8:04] >> 1 2 3 4 5. One hand.
[8:07] >> Wow.
[8:07] >> So if a conflict actually kicks off, and
[8:10] we saw this in the US in World War II
[8:12] where we had the production capacity
[8:14] where we're building thousands of
[8:15] vessels every year. If a conflict kicks
[8:17] off, that commercial capacity isn't
[8:19] going to go to building cargo containers
[8:21] anymore. It's all going to flip to
[8:22] defense capacity and it's going to be
[8:24] building for what the Chinese Communist
[8:26] Party needs to to win a conflict. And
[8:29] that's what we have to be building
[8:30] towards. That's what we're doing at
[8:32] Seronic. That's why we're thinking,
[8:33] okay, how do we build mass? How do we
[8:36] build scale in whatever it is that we
[8:38] do?
[8:38] >> And so, how do you do it, Vib? I would
[8:41] think and listen I'm a neopight here but
[8:43] if these are autonomous ships well you
[8:46] can remove things like you don't need
[8:48] beds you you don't need a commissary and
[8:50] you don't need uh latrines and I don't
[8:53] know what percentage of a corsair or
[8:55] battleship are there to uh support
[9:00] humans on the ship but I got to think
[9:02] it's half the mass of it is to is to
[9:04] keep humans on it am I directionally
[9:06] correct
[9:07] >> I think half is a little half is a
[9:08] little excessive but there is a
[9:10] significant percentage of the
[9:11] components, the cost, the labor that
[9:14] actually goes into catering to human
[9:15] beings on board. Um, I would say at a
[9:17] high level, you know, you're really
[9:19] reducing the complexity of the entire
[9:21] product, right? Um, you don't need to
[9:23] worry about a separate electrical system
[9:24] for humans. You don't need to worry
[9:26] about, as we mentioned, doors, bathroom,
[9:27] stairs, etc. Um, and then at the end of
[9:30] the day, you can actually start to end
[9:32] optimize a lot of different things. So
[9:34] even if you look at Corsair for example,
[9:36] you know, if you were to buy a
[9:37] commercial 24T boat, it's unlikely to go
[9:40] a thousand nautical miles. Um it's also
[9:42] unlikely to drive and have the control
[9:44] authority um of the boat that we've
[9:46] built here. Um because you don't have
[9:47] again, you don't have to worry about you
[9:49] know a person feeling uh you know you
[9:52] know taking in the middle of the oceans.
[9:54] Yeah. Um and so you can actually
[9:56] optimize across a bunch of different
[9:57] areas. Naval architecture, the speed,
[9:59] range and payload of the craft itself.
[10:01] Um, and then again reduce a lot of the
[10:03] complexity where you're removing
[10:04] subsystems that are meant for humans.
[10:06] >> Yeah. And the Corsair, which is my
[10:08] favorite ship just based on the name. I
[10:11] I believe for my research this me was
[10:13] originally meant like a pirate ship or a
[10:14] privateeering ship, but it's is it now
[10:17] standard lingo that that's a 24 ft boat
[10:20] and and has a certain profile? Do you
[10:21] know? Is that is that how these
[10:23] designations come about the names of
[10:25] these ships? I mean, I wouldn't say that
[10:27] Corsair is now universal 24 foot
[10:30] autonomous surface vessel. It's the name
[10:32] of our product lines and we chose it uh
[10:34] very purposefully and we chose all our
[10:36] names purposefully. Even the name of the
[10:38] company, I mean, we were talking about,
[10:40] you know, our Greek heritage before the
[10:42] show and where that came from. You know,
[10:44] the Seranic Gulf is a Gulf off the coast
[10:46] of Athens where the Battle of Salamis
[10:49] happened. It's one of the most famous
[10:50] naval battles in history. came after the
[10:53] battle of Thermopoly or the famous stand
[10:55] of the spar 300 Spartans and it was the
[10:58] naval battle between um the Greeks and
[11:01] the Persians where the Greeks were
[11:03] wildly on mesh. The the Persians had
[11:05] much much larger ships. They had a much
[11:07] larger fleet and the Greeks were able to
[11:09] lure them into this narrow straight and
[11:11] use smaller more maneuverable products
[11:14] to ultimately uh defeat the Persians.
[11:17] Now cost is part of this uh in terms of
[11:21] these ships in the field and the number
[11:24] of ships. My understanding of our
[11:27] contemporary China is that they don't
[11:30] build a lot of big ships. They build a
[11:31] lot of ships. So they've got a lot of
[11:33] smaller and very varied number of ships
[11:35] if I'm correct there. Then the cost
[11:38] becomes the issue because building a
[11:40] bunch of aircraft carriers I keep
[11:41] hearing that supersonics are going to
[11:43] take out all these uh aircraft carriers
[11:45] in the first 15 minutes. Vib is is that
[11:48] true what we hear that hey we need
[11:49] smaller ships faster ships and what is
[11:52] the cost of something like you know the
[11:54] Corsair that you used on this incredible
[11:56] mission. Yeah, I would say, you know, at
[11:58] a high level, the goal is mass, right?
[12:00] Um like large scale attritable mass. And
[12:03] yeah, if an aircraft carrier takes 10
[12:05] years to build and $13 billion, like
[12:07] you're not really achieving that. Um I
[12:09] think there's always going to be like
[12:10] kind of a role and responsibility for
[12:12] for a craft like that. Um but
[12:14] ultimately, you're right, like if you're
[12:15] big and and you know, very obvious to
[12:17] find and you can find you from space,
[12:19] etc. um you know that's that's a real
[12:21] risk when you reduce you know the the
[12:24] overall cost of like just doing things
[12:27] in the ocean right like that's
[12:28] ultimately where the autonomous piece
[12:30] comes in um you can deploy at scale you
[12:33] can monitor a large larger body of water
[12:35] with less people um and ultimately what
[12:38] you're what you're really getting to is
[12:40] removing people from harm's way right um
[12:42] so what when we think about designing
[12:45] and kind of thinking through the price
[12:46] points of these things the comparison to
[12:49] Mancraft isn't really um necessarily
[12:52] even comparable as you get into larger
[12:53] ships, right? Um for for us, it's really
[12:56] a question of like what is the cost that
[12:58] you would typically have to use humans
[13:00] for and how much is that actually being
[13:02] reduced by having a large autonomous
[13:03] fleet.
[13:04] >> Corsair's a million bucks or something.
[13:06] Do you know the the Corsair costs about
[13:07] a million?
[13:08] >> Yeah, I want to go back to we'll get
[13:10] that. I want to go back to one thing you
[13:12] said earlier and it's like China's
[13:14] building both
[13:15] >> very large ships and a lot of ships.
[13:17] They're right. They're doing it all.
[13:19] Right. And when we think about, okay,
[13:21] how do you actually change the paradigm
[13:23] for the US Navy, it's
[13:25] >> let's actually boil it down to unit
[13:27] economics. Let's think about this like a
[13:29] commercial company. How do you Viv
[13:32] mentioned like payloads? What are you
[13:33] actually moving on the ocean? One of the
[13:36] most important metrics is VLS tubes. So
[13:39] vertical launch systems. Basically, how
[13:41] many big tomahawk missiles can you carry
[13:42] on a ship? It's how much firepower are
[13:45] you fielding. So, let's use an example
[13:47] of that, right? A destroyer, naval
[13:50] destroyer costs about $3 billion. Takes
[13:52] three billion three billion. And I'm not
[13:55] even getting into the sustainment and
[13:57] maintenance costs over the life cycle of
[13:59] the destroyer. I'm just talking about
[14:00] what it costs to buy. If we do that,
[14:02] it's 10 10 billion over 30, 40 years.
[14:06] $3 billion, 6 to 8 years to make. You
[14:09] carry you you can field about 96 VLS
[14:11] tubes. So, I'm going to round up. I'm
[14:13] going to make that 100 for easy math. So
[14:16] on average, you're fielding somewhere
[14:19] between 10 to 15 VLS tubes per year at a
[14:23] cost of 30 million per tube.
[14:26] Marauder,
[14:27] I won't give you the exact price or
[14:29] cost, but can reduce that cost by a
[14:32] significant amount, but we're building
[14:35] 20 Marauders for we're going to be
[14:37] building 20 marauders per year at our
[14:38] shipyard in Louisiana.
[14:41] Right? So now you can field, we can
[14:43] carry the equivalent of 16 VLS tubes on
[14:46] the back of that 180 foot fully
[14:49] autonomous ship. So now you can field
[14:51] 320
[14:53] VLS tubes per year as opposed to 15. And
[14:56] you could do it at a fraction of the
[14:58] cost. This is how you actually save the
[15:00] taxpayers hundreds of billions of
[15:03] dollars and you get more capability into
[15:05] the field faster.
[15:07] >> I mean, that's just extraordinary
[15:09] thinking about it. What do you lose by
[15:11] not having humans on it? You know, are
[15:13] we going to be faced with a moment in
[15:15] time where these are kind of like uh
[15:18] drones, you know, where there's no
[15:20] pilots. They're just pilots in a
[15:22] shipping container dropped somewhere
[15:24] either, you know, in the middle of
[15:26] America and doing it remote like we've
[15:28] done. Is that the future of warfare with
[15:30] these ships or and and what do you lose
[15:32] when you don't have a team there on the
[15:35] boat? What is the criticism, valid or
[15:37] invalid, that people have of unmanned
[15:40] ships?
[15:40] >> Well, I'm going to let V talk about the
[15:43] way that we're using software because I
[15:46] think the the criticism to your question
[15:48] is, well, what happens if we're in the
[15:50] middle of the ocean and the ship breaks
[15:51] down? Who's going to fix it? It's not
[15:54] it's not that we don't need this
[15:56] technology. It's folks that aren't used
[15:58] to technology saying, "Oh, how's the
[16:00] technology actually going to work?" And
[16:02] that's what we're proving out every
[16:04] single day. To your point of like what
[16:06] do you lose by not having people on
[16:08] them? Look, it all it all boils down to
[16:10] the mission, right? And this is why we
[16:12] partner so closely with the Navy. This
[16:14] is why we work with actual operators.
[16:16] It's like what are you using? What are
[16:17] you delivering? If the mission is long
[16:19] range fires, we're packing a bunch of
[16:21] VLS tubes on the back of Marauder. You
[16:23] actually don't lose anything, right?
[16:26] you're just delivering those
[16:28] capabilities into the field while
[16:29] keeping people out of harm's way. And
[16:32] that's a very very important part of the
[16:33] equation. But if our ships, let's be
[16:36] clear, like if our boats and ships
[16:38] aren't accomplishing the mission, then
[16:40] they're not relevant. They're not going
[16:43] to be used in the first place. And there
[16:45] is going to be some mix. I don't know
[16:48] what that mix is. I don't think anybody
[16:49] really knows what that mix is of manned
[16:52] and unmanned ships. So what you're going
[16:54] to see in the Navy is like a hybrid
[16:56] Navy. So the things that you're missing
[16:58] from having people on the ships, forward
[17:00] deployed decision makers in the
[17:02] environment, you can actually have out
[17:04] there onman ships, but you're using
[17:06] unmanned ships to put into combat areas
[17:09] and conflict areas to keep those people
[17:12] very safe.
[17:13] >> Fib, take us through the production of
[17:15] these. How do you achieve speed at it?
[17:17] you know, uh, friend of the pod, Elon
[17:19] Musk, with the Teslas. Over time, he
[17:22] eventually built the full stack. In the
[17:26] beginning, if you had a Tesla, you would
[17:28] look at the the shifter and you'd be
[17:30] like, "Hey, that looks like my
[17:30] Mercedes." And that's because they had
[17:33] their steering column from Mercedes, one
[17:34] of the early investors. The HVAC was
[17:36] from somebody else. But eventually, he
[17:38] had materials coming in one side of the
[17:40] factory, cars coming out the other, and
[17:43] he made every single thing in that car.
[17:45] He was now no longer dependent on any
[17:48] third party manufacturers or a supply
[17:50] chain, you know, and famously the HVAC,
[17:53] I think in the Model 3 and Y when it
[17:55] came out reduced massively the drain on
[17:57] the battery, right? So, it's
[17:58] purpose-built for that mission. So, I'm
[18:01] assuming you're doing that from first
[18:03] principles, but what what's the secret
[18:05] to this rapid production and lowerc cost
[18:07] production? Yeah, listen, I think
[18:09] there's, you know, within the ship
[18:10] building industry at large, there's a
[18:12] bunch of different challenges of of why
[18:14] the production isn't as high as it
[18:15] should be. And one of those core
[18:16] reasons, and the Navy's talked about
[18:18] this extensively, is is investing in the
[18:19] supply chain, right? Um, when you don't
[18:22] when you only build five commercial
[18:23] ships a year, your gen set
[18:25] manufacturers, the marine engine
[18:27] manufacturers also don't have to produce
[18:29] at a at a very high rate. So one of the
[18:31] things that we get the luxury of doing u
[18:33] by being vertically integrated is that
[18:34] we get to work with these manufacturers
[18:36] directly do non-recurring engineering
[18:37] work invest in really digitizing a lot
[18:40] of the components that historically have
[18:42] been very analog right um you know you
[18:44] asked earlier like what do people what
[18:46] do the people do on the ships like what
[18:47] are they going to do if if the ships are
[18:48] autonomous well when you think about you
[18:50] know Dina mentioned the life cycle of
[18:51] these ships are 30 years you think about
[18:53] a ship that was built 30 years ago you
[18:55] know you have people that are doing
[18:56] extremely manual things in the engine
[18:58] room that today should be extremely
[19:00] trivial to automate through software.
[19:02] Um, and so a lot of that work actually
[19:04] gets completely absorbed by the software
[19:06] stack and so you don't have to worry
[19:07] about it. Um, and as we choose
[19:09] components, we invest in the supply
[19:10] chain. We invest in invest in the
[19:11] industrial base. We actually help bring
[19:14] all of these analog components that for
[19:15] a long time were you know meant to be
[19:18] operated by humans. We give them
[19:19] software APIs. We make sure that they
[19:21] can be controlled by you know MCP or
[19:23] software stack somewhere else and can be
[19:25] you know remotely accessed and whatnot.
[19:27] Um,
[19:27] >> so the complexity is going to go down
[19:29] massively when you're building one of
[19:31] these. Yeah,
[19:32] >> absolutely. Yeah. And and you know,
[19:33] frankly, I don't think the the person
[19:35] who's sitting in the engine room is
[19:36] super thrilled about it anyway.
[19:37] >> No, not a great idea.
[19:38] >> You're actually changing the um you're
[19:40] democratizing the decision-m, right?
[19:41] Like now there's going to be you have
[19:43] more mass out in the ocean. More sailor
[19:45] is going to be making decisions about
[19:46] what those what that mass is going to be
[19:48] doing and where assets are going to be
[19:49] instead of worrying about, you know,
[19:51] coolant pressure in an engine, right?
[19:53] Um, and so, you know, when we think
[19:56] about the the actual design, there's
[19:59] there's a lot of different variables
[20:00] there. There's some components that are
[20:01] commercial off the shelves, right? Elon
[20:03] in the early days, um, from a compute
[20:05] perspective, they had to invest in A6,
[20:07] right? The comput stack wasn't there to
[20:08] run, you know, large models and and run
[20:10] inference at the speeds and and power
[20:11] budgets that they wanted to. In 2026,
[20:14] it's a totally different game, right?
[20:16] Um, and so there's there's a lot of
[20:18] different parts of the supply chain
[20:19] that, you know, sometimes we're looking
[20:20] at, you know, investing in the
[20:22] industrial base and making sure that,
[20:23] you know, our engine manufacturers and
[20:25] genet manufacturers are keeping up. Um,
[20:27] on the other side, there's there's
[20:28] particular components that we're like,
[20:30] hey, the marine industry actually hasn't
[20:32] had this level of investment in in a
[20:34] long time, so we're going to have to
[20:35] build this in house. Um, you know, a
[20:37] couple of examples around that are
[20:38] related to a lot of the electronics,
[20:40] related to the sensors and compute. Um,
[20:42] but you know, bunch of different things
[20:44] there that that help us build and
[20:46] assemble quickly.
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[21:25] >> Let's talk a little bit about Adino on
[21:27] the business side. How you work with the
[21:30] Department of War, formerly known as the
[21:32] Department of Defense. Emil Michaels and
[21:34] a bunch of the folks over there are
[21:35] really focused on getting startups
[21:38] essentially like you are uh more
[21:40] contracts but you also are moving out I
[21:43] assume of this cost plus world and
[21:45] you're just figuring out hey what what's
[21:47] the right price for this and take us
[21:51] inside that paradigm shift. You have
[21:54] these primes and then you have these up
[21:56] starts and it seems like based on
[22:00] history the incumbents sometimes don't
[22:03] uh take this lying down. So take us
[22:04] inside the paradigm shift from cost plus
[22:08] to what these I guess they call the new
[22:10] primes like yourself and Andrew are
[22:12] doing.
[22:13] >> Yep. And I'll just define cost plus
[22:15] everybody that's listening basically
[22:17] means hey we're going to go build you
[22:19] something Mr. government and however
[22:22] long that takes, however much it costs,
[22:24] you're just going to pay us 10 to 15% on
[22:27] top of that. So, I'm actually
[22:29] incentivized and I'm not saying there's
[22:31] malicious intent, but I'm incentivized
[22:33] to make it take longer and cost more
[22:35] because if it costs $100 million, well
[22:38] then I only make $15 million. But if it
[22:41] costs a billion dollars, then as a
[22:43] company I make $150 million. So, there's
[22:46] this perverse incentive to drive up
[22:49] cost. Now, that's not the only reason
[22:50] the industry is where it is today, but
[22:53] we're we're very encouraged
[22:56] by the push from the administration um
[22:58] to adopt things at at speed and scale
[23:00] and to do that quickly and to do that
[23:02] differently and to move away from cost.
[23:05] Plus, you hit it like we invest our own
[23:07] capital. To date, we're we're just about
[23:10] four years old. We've raised $2.5
[23:11] billion in private capital. We're
[23:14] pouring that into R&D. I remember when
[23:16] we decided to build Marauder again 180
[23:19] foot ship. Viv and I were talking and
[23:22] it's like who who's crazy enough to go
[23:25] and build a ship on Irad? And it's like
[23:28] well well we are cuz that's what the
[23:30] country needs. That's what it demands.
[23:32] That's what we're going to go do. And
[23:34] our investors are giving us the capital
[23:36] to go do it. They're actually entrusting
[23:38] us with that capital. That's the reverse
[23:40] of what's happening in the large primes
[23:43] where their investors are kind of
[23:44] demanding share buybacks. They're saying
[23:46] give us our capital back. So the country
[23:49] very much needs us to build for needs
[23:52] companies like us to build for the
[23:54] future. Um, and when you look at what
[23:56] the administration is doing, even just
[23:57] in ship building, just recognizing that
[24:00] ship building is a critical strategic
[24:02] industry, right? The president, one of
[24:04] the first things he did was put out the
[24:06] maritime executive order that was
[24:08] followed with the maritime action plan,
[24:10] right? There's ships act sitting in
[24:12] Congress. You had the Secretary of War
[24:14] give a whole speech on defense
[24:15] acquisition reform, talking about how
[24:18] we're going to push the department to be
[24:21] better, to move faster, to work with
[24:23] companies like us that are building on
[24:26] firm fixed price contracts that are
[24:28] focused on delivering at speed and scale
[24:30] and driving down cost for the taxpayer.
[24:34] So all of that is extremely encouraging.
[24:38] But I want to be I also want to be clear
[24:39] here on the flip side. We're in the
[24:42] early days, Jason. Like very early days.
[24:45] When you look at the overall Defense
[24:47] Department of Wars budget,
[24:50] 1%
[24:52] 1% goes to autonomous systems. That's
[24:56] not nearly enough. Make that 5%. Make
[24:58] that I don't know the right mix, but it
[25:00] needs to go up and it needs to go up
[25:02] quickly. I I'll just add one more thing
[25:04] that um that you know historically ship
[25:07] building you know the design is
[25:09] bifurcated from the builder right so the
[25:11] design someone gets paid to do the
[25:12] design um and the groundup general
[25:14] assembly and all of that and gets handed
[25:16] off to a totally different person to go
[25:17] build a ship um and I think there's a
[25:19] statistic out there that's like 70% of
[25:22] sequence critical components on on some
[25:24] Navy ships are sole source suppliers
[25:26] like single source suppliers um and so
[25:28] to Dino's point it's not just that
[25:30] you're incentivized to to take longer
[25:32] it's that you're not incentivized to
[25:33] change that necessarily um because you
[25:35] know that you're still going to get
[25:36] paid. Um whereas like from our
[25:37] perspective when you own the design, you
[25:39] own the shipyard, you know, software
[25:41] engineers, ship builders, naval
[25:42] architects, and welders can all all sit
[25:44] down and eat lunch together in the yard.
[25:46] Um there's end to end optimizations that
[25:47] you get that, you know, the system from
[25:50] a from a historical perspective just
[25:52] wasn't set up to gain.
[25:53] >> Yeah. Let's do a little uh look at what
[25:56] happened in the straight of Hormuz. Uh
[25:58] we weren't able to control it
[26:00] completely. doesn't seem like anybody in
[26:02] history has been able to uh control it.
[26:05] If we were to fast forward and you had
[26:07] your entire fleet, you had let's assume
[26:11] uh not unlimited but massive capacity,
[26:15] how would you or would you be able to
[26:18] secure something like the straight of
[26:20] Hormuz with these autonomous vehicles?
[26:22] What might that look like? Take us into
[26:24] a you know scenario five years from now.
[26:26] What would it take?
[26:27] >> That's the type of scenario that that
[26:29] we're building for. I think before
[26:31] talking about the scenario, let's talk
[26:33] about the straight of Hormuz itself,
[26:35] right? The environment, the part of the
[26:37] world like what neighborhood is it in,
[26:39] right? It it connects. So you have the
[26:41] Persian Gulf which is 200 miles wide
[26:43] which narrows down to a 20 mile wide
[26:45] strip which is the straight of Hormuz
[26:47] and then it connects to the Indian Ocean
[26:49] and connects these large oil producing
[26:51] countries to global markets. On the one
[26:55] side of the Persian Gulf, you have, you
[26:57] know, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE,
[27:01] Qatar, and Oman. And on the other side
[27:04] of the Persian Gulf, the north side is
[27:06] all controlled by Iran.
[27:09] So now Iran is saying, well, how are we
[27:11] going to disrupt traffic in the straight
[27:13] of Hormuz? Well, it's only a 20 mile
[27:15] wide stretch. I can use missiles. I can
[27:17] use fast attack vessels. I can use naval
[27:19] mines. I can use cheap drones because I
[27:21] don't have a large distance to cover. I
[27:24] can launch these things anywhere from
[27:25] shore. So, it becomes this completely
[27:28] chaotic environment that sending in
[27:30] naval destroyers into or trying to get
[27:32] commercial ships pass becomes extremely
[27:35] dangerous. So, using large numbers of
[27:37] autonomous vessels, you can combat these
[27:39] threats in completely different ways.
[27:41] You can offer scale, persistence, and
[27:43] risk reduction in ways that, you know,
[27:45] man vessels just can't. And again, we
[27:48] won't get into too many of the specifics
[27:50] on the types of operations that we're
[27:52] building towards, but autonomy is a way
[27:55] to counter these effects, these these um
[27:59] these effects that are overwhelen
[28:02] meant to be countered by traditional man
[28:04] ships alone. We can counter that with
[28:07] scale and technology and keep people out
[28:09] of harm's way.
[28:10] >> Well, you have some small ships. So
[28:12] yeah, you got the cutless and you got
[28:14] the spy glass in this uh you know
[28:16] buildout. Those are 6 foot 15t or
[28:20] whatever.
[28:21] >> We actually started with those and I and
[28:22] I'll give you an interesting story. We
[28:24] actually don't build those aren't we
[28:25] haven't productized those. Those were
[28:27] great subscale demonstrators but our
[28:29] real flagship product is Corsair. And
[28:32] when you talk about again the the
[28:33] scenario in the straight of four moves
[28:35] and what type of volume can we bring
[28:38] there like it's not only five years in
[28:40] the future. We could build 2,000 Corsair
[28:43] per year right now at our manufacturing
[28:46] facility in Austin.
[28:47] >> So I I know you live in Austin. We'd
[28:49] love to show you around. When you see it
[28:51] when you see it, it actually comes to
[28:53] life. You're like, "Oh, wait. We can
[28:55] actually build thousands of these
[28:56] vessels every single year."
[28:58] >> How many would you need? th000 5,000 in
[29:01] the straight hormonous I don't think
[29:02] it's a 20 mile wide straight
[29:05] >> so you're just going to and and they
[29:06] this is their offensive strategy they
[29:08] have these speedboats that they use I
[29:10] don't know what they're called but
[29:12] >> they call them fast attack vessels
[29:13] >> fast attack vessels these guys
[29:15] essentially are kamicazi right they just
[29:17] zip in you know no regard for safety in
[29:20] their life etc and they will attack
[29:23] >> they're using fast attack vessels
[29:25] they're using cheap drones so you have
[29:27] to be able to count have counter UAS
[29:29] capabilities. They're you they're using
[29:31] mines. They're just floating mines into
[29:33] the straight without regard for what
[29:36] those mines may set off. So, it's a
[29:39] really complicated environment that you
[29:41] need to bring a lot of capabilities
[29:43] towards.
[29:44] >> Yeah. But it sounds like VIB with
[29:46] artificial intelligence, which is the
[29:48] next card that I think is going to turn
[29:49] over. You put these Corsaires out there.
[29:52] Could they with AI be able to, you know,
[29:55] be using satellite data from planet or
[29:59] whoever is providing it to just and or
[30:01] military satellites and just zip out
[30:03] there and know, say, somebody's putting
[30:04] out some mines. Hey, somebody's putting
[30:06] out some of these fast attack vehicles.
[30:08] Just intercept them. And now they have
[30:10] an actual cost, human life, and a
[30:13] limited amount of resources. And hey,
[30:14] we're America and we have you guys
[30:17] building ships at scale. They don't have
[30:19] this ability to build AI based ships. So
[30:21] talk about what AI on these ships could
[30:23] do eventually.
[30:25] >> Yeah. So I would I would say today, you
[30:27] know, there's a bunch of different, you
[30:29] know, machine learning applications that
[30:30] run on our boat today. Um there's heavy
[30:32] amounts of compute on all of our crafts.
[30:34] Um that allows people to have tons of
[30:37] capability, whether it's, you know, the
[30:39] navigation and kind of the autopilot or
[30:41] self-driving of the craft itself or
[30:43] compute for payloads, whether that's
[30:44] counter UAS, as Dino mentioned, or or a
[30:47] bunch of other things really. Um there's
[30:48] a variety of different mission sets. The
[30:50] end state here is that you know you have
[30:52] a distributed fleet you know across the
[30:55] ocean that you know in variable like
[30:57] listen the ocean is a tumultuous place
[30:59] like by default without war zone like
[31:00] the ocean's still bad um you know
[31:02] saltwater hits antennas you lose you
[31:04] lose comms uh so there's a bunch of
[31:06] different communications on this there's
[31:08] a bunch of different sensors um all of
[31:10] those things kind of areworked together
[31:12] with ML with a bunch of different
[31:14] software components of the software
[31:16] stack to make sure that you can
[31:18] basically translate intent
[31:20] from a commander or a sailor and then
[31:22] result in a mission outcome.
[31:23] >> Let's talk Dino a little bit about the
[31:25] adversary China and they have started to
[31:28] put weapons on robots. I'm assuming that
[31:32] they're doing the same if they're
[31:34] willing to put it on a you know one of
[31:36] those dog robots like the spot robots.
[31:38] They're putting weapons on them. They're
[31:39] demonstrating it and whatever they're
[31:41] demonstrating they've already got in
[31:44] production. Let's just call it what it
[31:45] is. And they're not signing some UN
[31:48] treaty to not put autonomous and AI
[31:50] weapons. This is a different type of
[31:51] adversary. And I'm sure North Korea and
[31:54] and other bad guys are doing similar
[31:56] things. We have um I believe treaties
[32:01] where we're not allowed to put weapons
[32:03] and use AI based weapons. Am I correct
[32:05] about that? In the West here,
[32:07] >> there is a autonomous weapon system
[32:09] standard called 3009 that basically
[32:11] outlines exactly how AI can be used on
[32:14] an on an autonomous system. Yeah,
[32:15] >> tell us all about that. Like or cuz this
[32:17] is the Robocop scenario. This is the
[32:20] robotic soldier or the robotic boat
[32:23] that's able to engage the enemy without
[32:25] a human, you know, if it loses comms or
[32:27] to do a kamicazi mission, which seems
[32:30] like something we might have to do.
[32:32] These are things we might have to do,
[32:33] Dino, versus the Chinese because they're
[32:36] not signing these treaties. They are not
[32:37] thinking ethically. They are not
[32:40] respecting the Declaration of Human
[32:42] Rights. They've got their own playbook.
[32:43] Yep. Yeah. And I think the the important
[32:46] thing to to articulate here is
[32:48] especially when you use the kind of
[32:50] Robocop example and just to kind of
[32:53] quell people's fears a little bit is
[32:55] even in that example where we're sending
[32:58] boats off the off of Taiwan and we're in
[33:01] the Taiwan Strait and they're engaging,
[33:03] we're still using artificial
[33:04] intelligence to bifurcate between an
[33:07] enemy vessel and a friendly vessel,
[33:09] between a non-combatant and a combatant.
[33:11] And people are still making the
[33:13] decisions and setting the mission
[33:15] intent. It's just government policy
[33:17] that's setting, okay, when are you
[33:19] authorized to engage versus not.
[33:21] Artificial intelligence actually just
[33:23] gives the military the opportunity to
[33:25] one operate at a greater scale and then
[33:28] operate more efficiently. These aren't
[33:30] robots actually just making decisions on
[33:32] when to go to war or not.
[33:33] >> Got it. So it says, hey, this is a bad
[33:36] guy. Hey, our recommendation is to, you
[33:40] know, neutralize it. And then a human
[33:42] has to say, okay, neutralize it. But if
[33:44] you're up against an adversary who says,
[33:47] hey, no, no, we built this thing.
[33:48] Anybody comes in to the blockade in
[33:51] Taiwan, which, you know, we think is uh,
[33:53] you know, a pretty significant nonzero
[33:56] probability in our lifetime. If you're
[33:58] up against somebody who says, "I'm just
[34:00] going to have these ships kill anything
[34:02] that's not our ship." Period. Full stop.
[34:05] Then we lose, don't we?
[34:07] >> No. Because the the technologies the all
[34:10] you're doing is putting policy
[34:13] thresholds and approval thresholds into
[34:15] the technology. There's a real world
[34:17] scenario where doomsday scenario, we go
[34:20] to World War II, the Taiwan Strait is a
[34:22] complete conflict. Exactly what you
[34:24] said. Our commanders are going to make
[34:26] that same judgment, right? and they be
[34:27] like, "Hey, if anything, there's no
[34:29] fishing boats out here right now."
[34:31] >> Yeah.
[34:31] >> There's no cruise ships coming through.
[34:34] >> If you're not if you're not a friendly
[34:36] vessel, you're an enemy vessel. And
[34:37] that's that. And our technologies
[34:39] actually enables that. What we were
[34:41] talking about earlier is like the
[34:43] autonomy, the artificial intelligence,
[34:44] and everything else is there. And you're
[34:46] building the policies into the software
[34:48] based on government procedures. And when
[34:51] those authorizations need to be in
[34:52] place, those authorizations will change
[34:56] based on
[34:58] the threat environment that we're in.
[35:00] >> Is the plan for you to sell to our
[35:03] allies? And what are the rules there?
[35:04] Because it sounds like we need as many
[35:07] ships for our navy as we can get, but if
[35:10] you can get up to capacity, then hey,
[35:12] the French, the Germans, and the English
[35:15] have essentially just stopped making
[35:17] ships, right? and they they they have
[35:19] very deprecated militaries. My
[35:21] understanding is the only people who are
[35:22] really doing a great job at this are the
[35:24] folks in South Korea which I believe are
[35:26] building but one ship for us. So maybe
[35:27] you could talk about the other uh top
[35:30] countries in the world, democracies and
[35:32] our allies and what their capability is
[35:34] and then your ability to help arm them
[35:36] and sell to them.
[35:37] >> I mean very very focused on our allies
[35:39] and partners. If you talk to the
[35:41] Department of War, if you talk to the
[35:43] United States Navy, they actually want
[35:44] our allies and partners to have these
[35:46] capabilities as well. This is this is
[35:49] going to be a combined effort, right? We
[35:51] mentioned earlier that China has 57% of
[35:54] the world's ship building capacity.
[35:56] That's not limited to just that one
[35:59] industry. We could go industry by
[36:01] industry and talk about their
[36:02] manufacturing might and their
[36:03] manufacturing dominance. Um, so you
[36:06] really do need a combined effort. We
[36:08] need our allies and partners to have
[36:09] this technology. We're talking to um our
[36:12] allies in Asia, obviously, in Europe,
[36:15] and in the Middle East right now about
[36:17] getting not only our our products there,
[36:20] but also how do we stand up, you know,
[36:22] domestic production in those countries.
[36:25] How do we give them the sovereign
[36:26] capability? How do we have production
[36:28] lines overseas so that they're already
[36:30] forward deployed if we get into a
[36:32] conflict in the first place?
[36:33] >> Pretty amazing stuff. And you have an
[36:34] announcement today, I understand, that
[36:36] we're going to share with the all-in
[36:38] audience for the first time.
[36:39] >> That's right. So, we've been working on
[36:41] Port Alpha for a long time now. So, Port
[36:44] Alpha, just for the listeners, is our
[36:47] shipyard of the future. This is going to
[36:49] bring American ship building back to a
[36:52] place that we haven't seen since World
[36:54] War II. Um, to be clear, we're already
[36:57] operating a shipyard. We have a shipyard
[36:58] in Franklin, Louisiana. That's where
[37:00] we're building Marauder. We're ramping
[37:02] that up to 20 Marauder. We can bring
[37:04] that up to 50 marauders per year, every
[37:07] single year. And that is a 100 acre
[37:10] shipyard.
[37:11] What we're doing at Port Alpha is 10xing
[37:14] that. We're looking at a shipyard that
[37:16] is well over a thousand acres. We've
[37:18] been doing this search for over a year
[37:20] now on what is the ideal location for
[37:23] this shipyard. Where are we going to
[37:24] find the right partner, the right land,
[37:26] the right workforce, the right community
[37:28] to be a part of? Um, and we're proud to
[37:30] announce that we found that in
[37:32] Brownsville, Texas. So, we're we're
[37:34] headquartered in Austin. We're going to
[37:36] be basing Port Alpha in Brownsville.
[37:38] We're going to start on a 800 acre plot
[37:41] of land, which in and of itself, 800
[37:44] acres is now the largest shipyard in the
[37:46] United States.
[37:47] >> Amazing.
[37:48] >> Just to give you a sense of scale, we
[37:50] have the opportunity over time to scale
[37:52] that to 4,000 acres. We're going to
[37:55] invest billions of dollars into this
[37:57] project. We're going to create 10,000
[38:00] jobs over the next 10 years and we're
[38:03] going to bring ship building in this
[38:04] country back again to a place that we
[38:06] haven't seen since World War II. And
[38:08] we're just grateful for the partnership
[38:10] from the state, from Governor Abbott,
[38:13] from Cameron County, and then the city
[38:15] and the port of Brownsville for making
[38:16] this happen.
[38:17] >> I mean, this is one of the great things,
[38:19] Vib, about being based in Texas. They
[38:21] let us build things in Texas. Yeah. As a
[38:23] recent resident here, it's pretty
[38:24] amazing to live in a state where the
[38:27] state's like, "What do you want to
[38:28] build? How can we help?" as opposed to,
[38:31] "Hey, uh, you know, f off like they told
[38:34] uh Elon in California." And he got the
[38:36] message received reply uh to that
[38:38] lunatic. So, maybe you could talk a
[38:40] little bit about operating VIB in Texas
[38:42] and the crazy support you get from
[38:45] Abbott and everybody.
[38:46] >> One of the uh questions that we used to
[38:48] get like back in the day was, "You guys
[38:50] are a maritime company. There's no water
[38:52] in Austin. What are you guys doing
[38:53] there? Um, and I would say like, you
[38:55] know, Austin has this like magical um
[38:58] kind of nexus of both digital and
[39:00] physical labor forces. Like you can find
[39:02] software talent, you can find AI talent,
[39:04] you can find designers. Um, but you can
[39:06] also tap into, you know, the industrial
[39:08] base from San Antonio, from the oil and
[39:10] gas industry in Houston. Um, and when
[39:12] you marry those two together, like you
[39:13] can actually start to co-design these
[39:16] things across the entire stack, right? I
[39:17] mentioned earlier like typically ship
[39:19] design and ship build is is totally
[39:21] independent. Um but with port alpha we
[39:24] get the luxury of like green field
[39:26] designing what the the manufacturing
[39:29] plant for ships should look like. Um and
[39:31] so you can design the you can you can
[39:33] optimize the design as ship for the yard
[39:34] and the design of the yard for the ship.
[39:36] And it's very similar to kind of like
[39:37] you know how how companies today like do
[39:39] hardware software co-design on chips,
[39:41] right? You design the compiler and they
[39:42] stick together to optimize both for for
[39:44] the other. Um, and we can we have the
[39:46] luxury of being able to do that for for
[39:48] ships here. And um, I I can't think of a
[39:50] better place to do it than Texas.
[39:52] >> Well, and uh, Starbase is right down the
[39:54] block. SpaceX obviously and Elon's made
[39:57] that work. And I think it's like a four
[39:59] what, maybe four, five, six hour drive
[40:00] down to the coast. Yeah. So you guys can
[40:03] either zip there on a PJ or you can just
[40:05] drive. So it's pretty straightforward.
[40:07] >> It's pretty straightforward. It's easy
[40:08] for logistics. What what SpaceX has did
[40:11] has done in Brownsville is incredible. I
[40:13] think what Brownsville has done for
[40:15] SpaceX and helping them build out build
[40:18] the community down there. Um, we were
[40:21] very impressed, very very excited to be
[40:23] basing Port Alpha there. And look, at
[40:26] the end of the day, it's the people that
[40:27] are going to make this work. It's it's
[40:29] the labor force. It's the workforce. Viv
[40:31] mentioned it earlier, and we can talk
[40:33] about, you know, why the American ship
[40:35] building industry has declined so much,
[40:38] but it's the supply chain and the
[40:40] workforce that has suffered the most.
[40:42] And so like one of the things we focus
[40:44] on is really how do we rebuild that
[40:46] workforce? How do we upskill existing
[40:49] talent to advance manufacturing? How do
[40:51] we take somebody that's building a car
[40:53] at Ford and get them building ships very
[40:56] very efficiently, very quickly, right?
[40:59] And that actually all starts with the
[41:00] design. If you design a ship from the
[41:03] ground up from a first principles
[41:04] approach to be more simplistic to be
[41:07] designed and manufactured at scale, then
[41:09] you can put in the training, the work
[41:11] instruction, the processes and
[41:13] everything else where hey, let's go make
[41:16] this much faster. Let's train, let's
[41:18] build the workforce. And then let's be
[41:20] honest, like you have to make it cool
[41:22] for young people to go work in a
[41:23] shipyard again. You have to you have to
[41:26] pay them good wages. like every one of
[41:28] our employees, every welder, every pipe
[41:30] fitter, um they have good wages, the
[41:33] same benefits as our Silicon Valley
[41:35] software engineers, they have equity in
[41:37] our company, um they're they're fired
[41:39] up. Like I mentioned our our shipyard in
[41:41] Louisiana. Like people are fired up down
[41:44] there. And it's not just the workforce,
[41:46] it's the community. Like some of the
[41:48] some of the stories I hear when I'm down
[41:50] there are like so encouraging. People
[41:52] are like, I'm wearing my hat in the
[41:53] grocery store and people are coming up
[41:55] to me saying, "You guys are kicking
[41:57] butt. Keep building ships because nobody
[42:00] else in the country is doing what we're
[42:03] doing."
[42:03] >> And these are great salaries. People are
[42:06] getting paid significant amounts of
[42:07] money obviously to work in manufacturing
[42:10] at your company at uh down at Starbase.
[42:12] And now you have these two incredible
[42:14] companies. I I don't know if there's any
[42:16] other ones in Brownsville, but this is a
[42:18] small community. There's only like
[42:19] 200,000 people down there. This is going
[42:21] to be an incredible boom town. Oh, it's
[42:23] going to be incredible. SpaceX, you
[42:24] know, and
[42:27] I mentioned earlier like the cost of
[42:29] building ships in the United States. And
[42:31] the United States just isn't competitive
[42:33] in the commercial market. And again, we
[42:35] can go through the specifics and what
[42:37] happened over time, five to six times
[42:40] the cost of building a ship in China. We
[42:43] think just by investing in product and
[42:46] processes and new shipyards, we can cut
[42:49] the cost of a ship in the United States
[42:51] in half. So if you have a ship that
[42:53] costs $300 million, we can get that
[42:55] under $150 million. And that's not by
[42:59] simply just paying people less. We're
[43:02] paying people more, but we're investing
[43:04] in our product. We're investing in the
[43:06] process. We're designing the product to
[43:08] be built that way in the first place.
[43:10] So, we're making the investments that
[43:11] are needed for long-term sustainability
[43:13] and to rebuild the workforce.
[43:16] >> All right. If people want to come work
[43:17] with you, VIB, how can they apply their
[43:20] career page and what are you looking
[43:21] for? What what talent do you need to
[43:23] come do this incredibly patriotic duty
[43:26] and go work at Seronic?
[43:27] >> Yeah, I mean sur uh we have a careers
[43:30] page. Um you can you reach out on
[43:32] Twitter, LinkedIn, whatever you want. Um
[43:34] we're we're hiring pretty aggressively
[43:36] right now. I would say that, you know,
[43:37] the biggest thing, you know, we look for
[43:40] generally speaking is, you know,
[43:41] especially in 2026 when, you know, Chad
[43:45] GBT and Claude are getting so much
[43:46] better every year. Um, it's pretty
[43:48] important right now to be fairly, you
[43:50] know, neuroplastic. Um, you know, be
[43:53] ready to adapt for what the future looks
[43:54] like. Computing is changing. Um, you
[43:57] know, there's there's going to be agents
[43:59] that can help you on the manufacturing
[44:01] floor to to assemble faster if you have
[44:03] an issue. uh there's all these digital
[44:05] systems that are they're kind of
[44:06] changing the paradigm here. I mean, when
[44:08] we first got to Golfcraft um in in done
[44:10] in Louisiana, a lot of the processes
[44:12] were were pretty much pen and pen and
[44:14] paper, right? And that's pretty common
[44:15] across most shipyards. Um so, like kind
[44:18] of bringing that into the 21st century
[44:19] really quickly. Um I mean, it's just
[44:22] going to require people to be um
[44:23] thoughtful um adapt to the future and um
[44:26] and really be passionate and excited and
[44:28] and about about kind of building the
[44:30] future.
[44:31] >> Yeah. go to the uh website s ar nic.com
[44:35] join the mission 300 jobs listed on the
[44:38] website there's something there for
[44:39] everybody and uh listen just as a fellow
[44:43] Greek dino uh you know we were obviously
[44:47] the cradle of innovation and or science
[44:49] math technology art and everything
[44:52] happened but we were also the great
[44:53] warriors uh and we patrolled the sea
[44:55] obviously Greece has a lot of coastlines
[44:57] so you're you're doing our Greek u
[45:00] brothers and sisters and ancestors Greek
[45:02] has a lot of Greek has a lot of
[45:03] coastline and they're actually big in
[45:04] the shipping industry. So now they are
[45:06] big. Yeah.
[45:07] >> So So now I hear more more often than
[45:09] not now. Oh, it's good to see a Greek in
[45:12] building ships.
[45:13] >> I you know what? I can sleep now at
[45:15] night. I was very worried about the
[45:16] straight of Hormuz. I was worried about
[45:18] the Pacific theater, the South China
[45:21] Sea. Dino, now that I know that my Greek
[45:23] brother is on top of this, my head's
[45:26] going to hit the pillow. I'm going to go
[45:27] right. I'm going to sleep like a baby
[45:28] tonight. I know you got us covered. Uh
[45:31] thanks so much guys and uh sincerely uh
[45:33] on behalf of all Americans like thank
[45:36] you for doing this work. You know this
[45:38] is something where we really need
[45:40] technologists and entrepreneurs uh to
[45:43] really help us innovate because we're
[45:44] falling behind and we're the good guys
[45:46] in this. We're the ones who are
[45:48] spreading democracy and freedom and
[45:49] protecting that. The only thing in the
[45:51] world that isn't trending in the right
[45:53] direction, man, if you look at
[45:54] lifespans, if you look at, you know,
[45:56] infant mortality, if you look at uh
[45:59] people's standard of living, everything
[46:01] is trending in the world in the right
[46:03] direction except the spread of
[46:05] democracy, which has been on the decline
[46:07] in our lifetime. Let that sink in,
[46:09] folks. More people living under
[46:10] authoritarians than democracies. It's
[46:13] it's a modest amount, but you've seen
[46:14] the statistics, I'm sure, Vib and and
[46:16] Dino. And we need to have a great
[46:19] military. We need to have this advanced
[46:21] technology if we're going to maintain uh
[46:23] the number of people living under a
[46:25] democracy of in and freedom and
[46:27] hopefully increase it. A lot of bad guys
[46:30] out there and uh you know just thank you
[46:32] so much for doing this work.
[46:33] >> That's right. Well, thank you for having
[46:35] us and I I will end on a positive note
[46:37] where look we're seeing that starting to
[46:39] turn around in a really big way. It's
[46:41] not just Sironic. You mentioned Android.
[46:43] there SpaceX and Palanteer before that
[46:46] and now there's just a big wave a big
[46:48] push into defense tech because people
[46:51] realize the importance and the magnitude
[46:54] of the moment that we are living in
[46:56] right now. I I tell our team I'm like
[46:58] this is our generation's version of the
[47:00] space race.
[47:01] >> Make make no mistake about it and we
[47:04] cannot lose. So that's how hard we're
[47:06] working at. That's how we're working
[47:08] with a sense of urgency and there's a
[47:10] lot of other companies into the coming
[47:12] into the space that are working with
[47:13] that same sense of urgency. So I am I am
[47:16] very optimistic. I know this country can
[47:18] do it. When we put our minds and we get
[47:20] a collective effort behind something,
[47:23] nobody can beat us. So
[47:24] >> nobody can. Yeah. Nobody can beat us.
[47:25] And listen, if you were thinking of
[47:27] going, listen, there's no no dig to
[47:28] anybody, but if you're thinking about
[47:30] going and optimizing an ad network at
[47:32] some big tech company, like it's
[47:34] incredibly boring and it's incredibly
[47:36] meaningful. You'll get 20, 30 years into
[47:38] your career and you'll say, "What did I
[47:39] do?" Go work at Seronic. You'll get
[47:42] couple of years into your career and you
[47:44] say, "I'm doing important work."
[47:45] >> That's right. That's right. Every person
[47:47] that walks through the door every single
[47:49] day is quite literally changing the
[47:50] world and we remind them of that and
[47:52] they they know it.
[47:53] >> Yeah. All right, Vib Dino, thank you so
[47:55] much for coming on and we'll see you
[47:56] next time on the All-In Interview.
[48:14] >> I'm going all in.
