JRE MMA Show #184 with Aljamain Sterling

JRE MMA Show 第184期：专访 Aljamain Sterling 在本期节目中，Joe Rogan 与 Aljamain Sterling 围绕综合格斗的技战术细节与职业生涯展开了全面交流。两人剖析了背后控制与防守勒颈的技术要领，探讨了 UFC 薪酬结构对选手比赛风格的影响，以及高水平战术博弈中出现沉闷对局的原因。Sterling 分享了颈部手术后的身体恢复、升至羽量级后的体能改善，以及阶段性减重与赛前心理调节习惯，并与 Rogan 深入讨论了称重制度改革、站立击打机制、全球各赛事的顶尖选手，以及基于“引导式发现”理念构建的系统化实战训练方法。 Sterling 深入拆解了高阶背部控制与颈部防守的战术细节，并与 Rogan 探讨了 UFC“出场与获胜”双重奖金结构对选手生计及战术风险选择带来的影响。 Sterling 详述了自己为期四个月的渐进式减重方案与赛前心理调节习惯，并分析了推行赛前四小时同日称重对解决过度脱水问题的可行性。 结合大学体育教育专业背景，Sterling 阐述了将“引导式发现”与约70%强度的技术实战应用于格斗防守体系的训练理念。

Former UFC champion Aljamain Sterling and commentator Joe Rogan analyze how the modern MMA landscape demands tactical adaptation, questioning promotional structures like extreme weight cutting and win bonuses while dissecting the physical wear of elite combat. Flaws in Fighter Pay and Promotion Systems (5:45) Rogan and Sterling strongly criticize the UFC's traditional 'show and win' compensation model, noting that having half of an athlete's income contingent on a victory leaves livelihoods vulnerable to flawed judging. Sterling notes that even when large performance bonuses are offered—such as the $300,000 incentives at UFC 300—fighters cannot simply force spectacular finishes against defensive, elite opponents like Calvin Kattar without taking reckless risks. At 37, Sterling also reflects on navigating public scrutiny, noting that articulate commentary on compensation draws promoter tension, unlike the dismissible antics of peers like Sean Strickland. Tactical Evolution and the Back-Control Meta (2:17) Elite mixed martial arts has evolved from wild exchanges into sophisticated positional systems. Breaking down Arman Tsarukyan's grappling control over Mateusz Gamrot, Sterling emphasizes coach Matt Serra's foundational rule of protecting the neck first during back defense. He explains that his own progression into a back-control specialist came out of necessity to minimize physical punishment and preserve longevity after grueling early bouts. Rogan and Sterling also examine how training partners share technique to force innovation, contrasting 'battering ram' fighters with technicians who utilize structured feints, as championed by Firas Zahabi and Georges St-Pierre, to systematically drain an opponent's nervous system. The Hazards and Realities of Weight Cutting (57:05) Severe dehydration remains a dangerous systemic problem across the sport, with competitors cutting excessive weight out of fear of facing size disadvantages. Sterling recounts watching Daniel Cormier look severely depleted cutting to 205 pounds at UFC 170, while Rogan contends Cormier's natural 5'9" to 5'10" frame could have reached 185 pounds with sustained dietary discipline. Observing welterweight Michael Morales walking around near 200 pounds and dropping over 20 pounds fight week, both men advocate structural adjustments. Sterling suggests adopting same-day weigh-ins with a four-hour window or adding closer, numbered weight increments modeled after boxing and wrestling, noting his own stamina and durability jumped considerably upon moving up to 145 pounds. Physical Toll, Injury Risks, and Career Longevity (11:03) The extreme bodily toll of long-term combat sports often leaves permanent damage, as illustrated by Sterling competing with an artificial neck disc that causes residual triceps nerve tremors. Beyond chronic joint wear, acute trauma frequently alters careers; Rogan references Michael Bisping's artificial eye and Tom Aspinall's two ocular surgeries following an eye poke to lobby for an immediate, automatic one-point penalty for extending fingers. Furthermore, durable chins inevitably deteriorate over time, exemplified by Chuck Liddell's sudden drop in durability late in his career. Sterling points out that athletes routinely enter high-stakes matchups compromised, citing Sean O'Malley fighting through a hip labrum tear against Merab Dvalishvili. While the evolution of mixed martial arts demands sophisticated fight IQ and refined recovery methods, fighters continue to navigate structural hazards—such as precarious bonus structures, unchecked weight dehydration, and permanent eye injuries—that neither promotional rules nor matchmaking have yet resolved.

UFC前雏量级冠军Aljamain Sterling与Joe Rogan围绕现代综合格斗的技术细节、减重机制缺陷、职业身体损伤以及商业赛事结构展开深度剖析。Sterling结合自身从雏量级升至羽量级的实战经验指出，科学的战术体系、合理的体重管理以及对职业伤病的清醒认知，是格斗选手在残酷竞争中实现生涯长效性的核心基石。 体系化摔柔控制与技术进化的实战逻辑 (2:17) 在解析现代综合格斗的技术演进时，Sterling与Rogan一致认为顶尖选手必须将战斗视为精密结构而非单纯凭借本能。Sterling结合自己早年在纽约州立大学科特兰分校（SUNY Cortland）攻读体育教育时学到的“引导式发现”（guided discovery）理念，阐明高水平训练应将对抗强度维持在70%左右，从而让选手在受控情境下推导针对高位折裆摔（high crotch）等技术的防守矩阵。此外，教练Matt Serra传授的黄金法则“永远先防勒颈”在背部控制与逃脱中起到决定性作用，任何慌乱都会直接导致被降服。对阵Arman Tsarukyan与Mateusz Gamrot的比赛复盘显示，利用手臂反锁（over-hook）破坏对手反身游离是顶级摔跤手控背的核心细节。 Sterling与Merab Dvalishvili的日常合练进一步印证了系统化佯攻（feints）的威力。频繁的虚招不仅仅是试探，更是通过连续调动对手的快肌纤维来消耗其中枢神经系统，使其反应时间在后续回合明显衰退。针对外界关于摔跤压制型打法“沉闷”的批评，Rogan强调格斗的本质是风格碰撞与战术博弈，例如Dvalishvili对阵Sean O'Malley时展现出的压迫力，责任完全在于站立系选手能否在战术上找到有效反制手段。 减重体系弊端与称重机制的改革方案 (57:05) 针对MMA界广泛存在的极限脱水降重现象，Sterling与Rogan直指其对选手健康的严重侵蚀与竞技表现的扭曲。以次中量级新星Michael Morales为例，其非赛季体重超过200磅，比赛周需减重20磅以上，俨然是以轻重量级的身形在次中量级作战。Sterling详述了自己以往降至雏量级（135磅）必须历时四个月分阶减重（从170磅经165、160、155磅逐步推进）的煎熬，若采用三个月急减则会导致冠军回合体能崩盘；而升入羽量级（145磅）对阵Sodiq Yusuff时，身体耐受度、下巴抗击打能力与体能储备均显著跃升。 Rogan主张彻底废除危险的脱水减重，而Sterling建议推行赛前4小时的当天称重机制，以限制脱水量在5磅左右，并赋予选手足够的进食与热身窗口。二人还借鉴职业拳击细分量级（如122、126、130、135、140、147磅等）的做法，提议取消现行模糊的量级名称，转而采用纯数字标示级别，同时增设紧密的10磅间隔（如增设165磅级别），以彻底消除为追求体格优势而过度脱水的博弈心理。 伤病代价、抗击打衰减与八角笼安全底线 (11:03) 高强度竞技不可逆转地消耗着选手的身体机能。Sterling透露自己接受过颈椎间盘置换手术，至今三头肌仍伴随神经损伤，在进行平板支撑或普拉提动作时手臂会出现明显颤抖；但他以此警示网络非专业粉丝盲目指责职业拳手“软弱”的荒谬。在探讨抗击打能力（chin）时，他们以Chuck Liddell作为经典案例指出，下巴的耐久度是一次性消耗品，一旦遭受过度脑震荡损耗便不可逆转。面对2017年被Marlon Moraes暴力KO引发的生涯危机，Sterling曾考虑退役去当中小学体育教师以获取带薪暑假和医保，最终在接下来的营地中杜绝实战硬对轰，历时四个月才克服心理阴影重返八角笼。 针对眼部插眼这一毁灭性犯规，二人以Tom Aspinall遭遇严重插眼并接受两次眼部手术为例，强调单眼视力在重量级拼拳中面临致命危险。Rogan强烈呼吁UFC推行绝对零容忍政策，只要出现伸指插眼，第一回合便应立即扣除1个积分，从而强迫选手彻底改掉张开手掌迎击的不良防守习惯，避免类似Michael Bisping失明装义眼的悲剧重演。 赛事商业模式与拳手生涯规划的现实博弈 (5:45) 围绕UFC现行的“出场费加赢球奖金”（show and win）薪酬构架，Sterling与Rogan表达了强烈批判。这种结构将选手一半的经济收益寄托于裁判可能存在偏差的打分上，直接加剧了职业生存的不确定性。尽管UFC 300等大赛将单项花红提升至30万美元以刺激选手追求终结，但在高水平较量中，如Sterling面对Calvin Kattar的严密防线，选手根本无法在确保安全与胜率的前提下强行创造终结。此外，短通知接赛往往成为年轻新秀的陷阱，过快跨级别或面对顶级压迫者（如Mansur Abdul-Malik过早遭遇踢拳名将Ibo Aslan），极易造成不可逆的身心创伤。 37岁的Sterling在权衡自身剩余职业窗口时指出，自己在公开场合就拳手薪资与联盟政策直言不讳的态度，往往招致UFC管理层的不满与媒体断章取义的标题党炒作。相比于Sean Strickland口无遮拦的“狂人”人设，Sterling理智平实的批评反而承受了更大的公关压力与审视，这也折射出当代顶尖运动员在追求职业荣誉、商业利益与个人言论空间之间面临的艰难平衡。 本期对谈通过Sterling的亲身经历与Rogan的长期观察，揭示出综合格斗技术精密化背后的残酷代价：从极限减重的生理剥削、不可逆的神经与颅脑创伤，到胜负奖金机制对运动员生计的绑架。双方尽管提出了推行当天称重、自动扣分制插眼严管等技术性改良建议，但在现行商业驱动模式下，如何制度化地保障选手长期健康与基本收益，仍是八角笼内尚未解决的核心矛盾。

## Background 本期节目由 YouTube 频道 PowerfulJRE 于 2026 年 8 月 24 日发布。视频为《JRE MMA Show》第 184 期，主持人乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）与现征战 UFC 羽量级的前雏量级冠军阿尔贾曼·斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）展开对话，官方简介介绍了斯特林的选手身份、其主持的播客《Weekly Scraps》以及他创立的 Funk Harbor 朗姆酒品牌。 ## TL;DR 斯特林与罗根围绕格斗界残酷的脑震荡恢复机制、耐打度极限与插眼违规判罚展开了深入探讨，并直面摔跤压制型打法在拳迷群体中遭遇的“无聊”双重标准争议。两人全面剖析了羽量级与次中量级的争冠格局，细致拆解了托普利亚遭盖奇终结、加恩与佩雷拉的风格克制等焦点战局。斯特林还袒露了自己渴望以羽量级夺冠达成“灰姑娘式结局”的终极野望，分享了从传统格斗大课向高度定制化私教过渡的体系反思、Funk Harbor 朗姆酒创业历程，以及在巴尔干半岛遭遇手榴弹威胁的惊魂往事。 ## Atmosphere & style 对话洋溢着老友围炉畅谈般的松弛与坦率，同时贯穿着对职业综合格斗残酷代价的冷峻审视。两人在复盘骨碎、KO 神经重伤与惊险的贝尔格莱德炸弹危机时氛围凝重肃穆，而在切磋盲棋体验与调侃心理教练时又爆发出阵阵会心的欢笑。罗根富有洞察力的战术追问与斯特林毫无保留的职业反思层层交织，既呈现出顶尖格斗家在面对年龄与退役抉择时的宿命从容，也流淌着对擂台竞技最原始而纯粹的敬畏。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1s) 金牙牙套与 Theo Von 的经典段子 节目一开始，Joe Rogan 就注意到了 Aljamain Sterling 嘴里闪闪发光的牙齿，好奇地询问他到底镶了什么。Sterling 笑着露出一口上下整齐的金牙牙套（Grillz）。Sterling 坦言，自己从小看着别人戴这种饰品，一直梦想着等赚了钱也要给自己定制一套。Rogan 问这是否是可拆卸的，得知不是永久性固定后松了一口气，调侃说万一哪天受到邀请要去白宫做客，一嘴金牙和钻石要是拿不下来可就太尴尬了。Sterling 解释这副牙套是在达拉斯定制取模的，佩戴起来的感觉其实非常像牙齿保持器。Rogan 提到德克萨斯州的人对这种牙套文化有着狂热的喜爱，甚至休斯顿的说唱歌手 Paul Wall 还曾表示要给他们也弄一套。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 牙套制作与佩戴流程 accDescr: 展示 Sterling 在达拉斯定制可拆卸金牙牙套的过程及佩戴感受 A["达拉斯牙医取模"] --> B["定制成型金牙/钻牙"] B --> C["可随时拆卸佩戴"] C --> D["佩戴体验类似牙齿保持器"] ``` 两人在佩戴录音耳机时，Sterling 联想到了喜剧演员 Theo Von 曾经做客节目时的一个名场面。Theo Von 当时形容没戴耳机录播客就像是“独自一人在荒岛上”，紧接着抛出了一个荒诞的比喻——那种感觉就像是你刚刚戴上了安全套，转过头却发现对方居然还在若无其事地低头看手机，气氛瞬间变得无比尴尬和怪异；Theo Von 甚至还特意补充了一句“顺便说一下，那个人是个女人”。Rogan 笑着表示 Theo Von 总是能脱口而出无数荒唐绝妙的段子，自己都记不过来。Rogan 随后谈到录音戴耳机确实能让人精神高度集中，彻底“进入状态”（locked in）。 --- ### [02:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=137s) UFC Apex 焦点战：高超的上位缠斗与拿背技术 话题转到上周末在 UFC Apex 举行的赛事，两人重点复盘了头条主赛。Sterling 表示自己此前对这位新星的真正实力尚存一丝疑问，但看完整场比赛后彻底被折服。作为 UFC 公认的“背身控制大师”之一，Sterling 极力称赞对方的缠斗技巧。令他意外的是，该选手站立打击本就极为出色，却主动选择下潜抱摔，显然是为了在缠斗领域给对手一个下马威，展现自己全能的技术。 对手 Mateusz Gamrot 本身就是顶级摔跤手与缠斗专家，但在这位身材修长（身高超过六英尺）、臂展出色的选手面前完全落入下风。比赛中曾有一个关键瞬间，Gamrot 尝试通过挂腿防守寻找挣脱空间，但因为停留时间过长，被对方顺势压制在地。随后，这名选手展现出了顶级的拿背与调整技术，他伸手死死扣住远端手臂稳固身体，随后完成“安全带式锁扣”（Seatbelt control）并锁死身体三角（Body triangle），整套动作行云流水，让 Gamrot 彻底陷入绝境。 - **身高与体型优势**：该量级内罕见的 6 英尺以上高大身材，站立臂展与打击极具威胁。 - **高阶缠斗细节**：在混乱缠斗中精准抓取 Gamrot 的远端手臂完成重心固定，迅速转换至身体三角控制。 --- ### [04:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=248s) 假装起身的“下套”裸绞与防守原则 Rogan 特别指出了终结前极其狡黠的一幕：在控制后背时，该选手假装自己要主动起立，给 Gamrot 制造了一个“有空间可以发力逃脱”的假象。当 Gamrot 误以为抓住了反击窗口、猛然发力挺身试图起桥时，他的颈部防线瞬间暴露无遗，对手趁机精准将手臂塞入下巴底下锁紧颈动脉，一击制胜。Sterling 赞叹这一招极其老练阴险，因为在缠斗中选手总会在感受到一点松动时迫切想要挣脱，而这恰恰是最致命的陷阱。 Sterling 分享了自己的实战心得：每次在训练中被对手拿背时，主教练 Matt Serra 给他的第一铁律永远是“先防绞技，再做其他”（protect the choke first）。在没有确保脖子绝对安全的情况下，任何盲目的逃脱动作都可能在几分之一秒内葬送比赛。Rogan 也认为很多人在逆境中就是缺乏耐心，过于急躁地想扭转局势，结果反而自投罗网；如果 Gamrot 能够稳住阵脚撑过那一轮绞杀，比赛随后的体能消耗战会如何发展依然充满变数。 --- ### [05:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=330s) 未知体能的“首轮终结者”与 UFC 双份薪酬争议 两人随后探讨了这类往往在第一回合就能迅速闪击终结比赛的选手的特质。由于他们每次都以摧枯拉朽之势取胜，外界很难知道他们在被拖入第四、第五回合的深度消耗战时会有怎样的表现。Rogan 以重量级临时冠军 Tom Aspinall 为例，指出大家都知道 Aspinall 体型庞大、移动敏捷、爆发力极强，但因为他几乎总是在第一回合就解决战斗，他在深水区的体能储备到底如何，在 UFC 层面仍然是一个未知数。 Sterling 将这种现象称为“天赋与诅咒并存”（a gift and a curse）：一方面你能以最小的伤病迅速打卡下班，并拿到包括出场费和赢拳奖金在内的“双份支票”；但另一方面，由于平时的比赛没经历过逆境，一旦在擂台上遇到真正的持久硬仗，心理和体能能否打破极限就成了大问题。 谈到“双份支票”，Rogan 强烈抨击了 UFC 现行的“出场费 + 赢拳奖金”（Show & Win money）薪酬体制： - **体制的不合理性**：Rogan 认为拳手在八角笼里已经全力以赴，无论胜负都应该拿到属于自己的完整报酬，不应该把一个家庭的生计和拳手的未来交由裁判的打分喜好或误判来决定。 - **激励机制的伪命题**：在世界顶级格斗擂台上，没有一个拳手会因为单纯有赢拳奖金才去努力打拳，大家本来就是在赌上职业生涯去拼命。 --- ### [07:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=438s) 比赛的风格克制：UFC 300 体验与大牌沉闷对决 Sterling 回忆起自己唯一一次因为奖金而产生额外战术冲动的经历——在 UFC 300 对阵 Calvin Kattar 时，当 Dana White 宣布当晚的花红提升至 30 万美元时，他整个人极度亢奋，甚至计划着上场后大抡大砍，来一场震撼全场的疯狂终结。然而真正开打后，比赛却演变成了一场节奏沉闷的控制战。Sterling 无奈地解释道：“一个巴掌拍不响（It takes two to tango）”，当对方选择在笼边严防死守、消极僵持时，你很难单方面打出华丽的场面。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 拳手风格互克与比赛观赏性关系 accDescr: 说明高水平拳手互相克制导致场面沉闷的逻辑 A["拳手双方均具备顶级技术/杀伤力"] --> B["极高警惕性与针对性防守"] B --> C["彼此战术中和与空间压缩"] C --> D["形成拉锯战/出现'沉闷'比赛"] D --> E["观众不解并发出嘘声"] ``` Rogan 对此深表赞同，指出观众虽然总是渴望看到血腥激烈的对攻，但现实是两名技术顶尖的拳手往往会因为彼此的警惕和防守反击能力而相互抵消（cancel each other out），导致比赛异常枯燥。两人举了重量级历史上最典型的反差案例——Francis Ngannou 对决 Derrick Lewis。赛前所有人都坚信这两位重炮手之间必将爆发一场惊天动地的秒杀，结果整整三个回合双方几乎毫无动作，变成了历史上最沉闷的比赛之一。Sterling 直言，拳迷在台下站着说话不腰疼，根本不知道站在笼子里面对那种能把人意识一拳打飞到另一个维度的怪物时，内心的忌惮有多么真实；Rogan 则补充分析，Ngannou 当时刚输给 Stipe Miocic，心理上显然受到了挫败和谨慎情绪的极大影响。 ### [08:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=532s) 历史上最沉闷的比赛：罗斯·娜玛尤纳斯对阵卡拉·埃斯帕扎 乔·罗根与阿尔加麦恩·斯特林探讨了格斗比赛中双方都试图打防守反击时的尴尬窘境——当两名拳手都死守防线、不愿冒险突进挨击时，场面就会彻底僵住，演变成令人窒息的无声瞪眼比赛。两人随即便提到了卡拉·埃斯帕扎（Carla Esparza）与罗斯·娜玛尤纳斯（Rose Namajunas）在 UFC 274 上的草量级冠军战。这场比赛被广泛认为是 UFC 历史上最糟糕的对决之一，甚至比德里克·刘易斯（Derrick Lewis）与弗朗西斯·纳干诺（Francis Ngannou）那场大失所望的重量级站桩战还要糟糕，因为刘易斯与纳干诺好歹只耗了三个回合，而罗斯与卡拉却让全世界观众硬生生忍受了整整五个回合的无所事事。 罗根特意强调，批评这场比赛绝不是在贬低选手的实力与地位，两人无疑都是 UFC 女子草量级历史上最伟大的统治者之一。罗斯职业生涯中贡献过无数惊艳时刻，比如以惊世骇俗的高扫踢 KO 张伟丽，以及用精准凶狠的左勾拳直接击溃乔安娜·耶德尔泽奇克（Joanna Jędrzejczyk）。然而正如格斗界常有的不可预测性一样，有时拳手走进八角笼后感知到了某种微妙的磁场或心理信号，彼此都不愿踏出第一步，最终演变成了谁也不愿先动的僵持战。罗根分析认为，当一名拳手经历过太多场惨烈的血战（wars）之后，他们上前拼拳换血的欲望与侵略性往往会在潜移默化中发生改变；斯特林也附和道，自己如今年龄与经验渐长，同样需要改变以往火拼的风格，在比赛中打得更加聪明以保全职业生涯。 --- ### [10:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=649s) 斯特林的后背控制艺术与对彼得·严的救赎之战 罗根毫不吝啬对斯特林地面技术的赞美，直言斯特林拥有这项运动中他所见过的“最顶级的后背控制能力”（best back control）。无论面对何种高手，只要斯特林一旦顺势爬上对手的后背锁定身体三角，对手便瞬间命悬一线。罗根特别提到了斯特林对阵顶尖降服与打击高手科里·桑德哈根（Cory Sandhagen）的那场闪电战——在短短不到两分钟内丝滑拿背并迅速将其勒晕入睡，展现了无与伦比的技术统治力。斯特林对此表示非常感谢罗根在以往播客节目中的公开夸赞与认可。 随后话题转向了斯特林职业生涯的分水岭：与彼得·严（Petr Yan）的两次对决。一番战中由于彼得·严犯规的跪地膝击，导致斯特林通过取消资格（DQ）的方式拿到金腰带，这让他背负了铺天盖地的网络暴力与质疑。而二番战中，斯特林凭借严密的摔跤压制与强大的后背控制，通过分歧判定击败彼得·严，完成了无可争议的自我救赎。罗根回忆道，二番战结束后斯特林走进直播间时，所有人都必须闭嘴，那些拿“分歧判定”说事的质疑者根本不值一驳。更令人震撼的是，斯特林当时其实饱受严重的颈椎间盘突出困扰，后来甚至进行了颈椎人工椎间盘置换手术。罗根惊叹于一名颈部带着人工置换物的拳手，竟然还能在全球最残酷的综合格斗顶峰维持如此高水平的统治力。 --- ### [12:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=735s) 严重伤病、键盘侠与选手的真实付出 谈及自己的颈部伤病，斯特林透露人工椎间盘置换直到今天仍然伴随着后遗症，他的三头肌依然存留着一定程度的神经损伤。平时在做普拉提或标准平板支撑时，受损一侧的手臂仍然会止不住地剧烈颤抖。斯特林感叹外界很多人根本无法理解职业格斗家为了追逐卓越所付出的代价，他们每日在馆里与世界级顶尖选手硬碰硬，把肉体折磨到了极限；有些缺乏同理心的轻度观众（casuals）只会冷嘲热讽“又没人逼你打”，却不明白这项疯狂运动背后的神圣追求。 罗根对此毫不客气地痛斥网络喷子（haters）。罗根指出，网络上百分之百的职业喷子在现实中都是彻头彻尾的失败者（losers），真正过得充实成功的人绝不会躲在阴暗角落发泄恶意。理性的技术批评应当建立在尊重的基础之上，而网络喷子之所以敢口无遮拦地对职业杀手出言不逊，纯粹是因为他们在现实中从未被这些格斗家狠狠扇过巴掌。斯特林笑称自己私信里充斥着荒唐的狂言，甚至有普通网民放话“要把你折成两半”。罗根戏谑道，这些大多都是十六七岁一边吃着沾满手指的奇多、一边自慰的边缘青年，通过挑衅世界冠军来获取廉价的存在感。斯特林坦言年轻时自己还会忍不住在网上跟喷子对线、截图保存，但随着心智成熟，他已经彻底远离这种无意义的情绪内耗。 --- ### [15:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=946s) 肖恩·斯特里克兰的独特心智与大卫·戈金斯式动力 罗根指出，像斯特林这种顶峰拳手完全没必要搭理喷子，但八角笼里确实存在着特立独行的异类——比如前中量级冠军肖恩·斯特里克兰（Sean Strickland）。斯特里克兰整天在社交网络上与所有人喷垃圾话、疯狂互动，但他似乎拥有一种异于常人的脑神经构造，这种无休止的网络冲突不仅不会分散他的精力，反而像高浓度的燃料一样驱使他继续前进。罗根将这种心态比作著名超级马拉松运动员大卫·戈金斯（David Goggins）——戈金斯甚至会在跑步时戴着耳机循环播放黑粉嘲讽他的恶毒语音来激发斗志。 除了凶狠怪异的擂台形象，罗根与斯特林还揭示了斯特里克兰鲜为人知的另一面： - **极度擅长财务规划**：斯特里克兰表面上疯疯癫癫，但在金钱管理上异常冷静精明，私下攒下了巨额资产，甚至经常在社交平台 Twitter (X) 上给粉丝提供诸如定投 S&P 500 指数基金等极其靠谱的稳健理财建议。 - **天然的播客天赋**：罗根提到，斯特里克兰此前在前往奥斯汀的 Ways2Well 诊所治疗肩伤时，罗根就曾当面力劝他开办一档个人播客节目，以他毫无顾忌的大胆言论和鲜明性格，一旦退役在传媒界必将大有可为。 - **大智若愚的伪装**：斯特里克兰那种“想到什么就说什么”的狂放做派往往会给外人造成他是个傻子的错觉，但骨子里他不仅智商极高，而且在八角笼里具备货真价实的世界级顶尖战斗力。 ### [17:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1066s) 赞助商插播与 Ketone-IQ 提神体验 乔·罗根首先简短点评了一位拳手独特且怪异的打法风格，直言“那家伙真的很能打，而且是以一种无人能及的奇特风格在战斗”。随后节目进入赞助环节，罗根介绍了自己多年来用于保持大脑高度专注的补充剂——Ketone-IQ。他解释说，酮体是大脑在身体推向极限时自然产生的高效能量分子。过去这类产品极难获取，单剂成本甚至高达数千美元，基本仅供少数顶尖精英使用；如今得益于军方一项价值 600 万美元的研究合约突破，大众可以通过亚马逊或 Target 超市以每剂约 5 美元的价格买到。 罗根坦言虽然它的味道算不上好，但效果却极其立竿见影。对于每天高度依赖大脑决策和专注力的人群来说，摄入酮体后能明显感受到思维变得更敏锐、决策更果断、记忆提取更快且效率倍增。官方不仅提供线上订阅折扣，还附带 60 天无条件退款保障。 ### [19:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1148s) 斯特林的伴手礼：斗士定制雪茄与开盒小插曲 赞助插播结束后，演播室的气氛迅速活络起来。斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）这次做客给罗根带来了见面礼——专门针对格斗选手推出的 Triumph Cigars 系列雪茄。两人甚至在现场开盒时闹出了点小尴尬：雪茄盒不知是因为受冷还是密封过紧，卡得死死的，斯特林使出浑身解数也抠不开，自嘲得动用“格斗肌肉”。罗根见状打算找把大刀撬开，顺口询问制作人杰米（Young Jamie）平时桌上放的大刀去哪了，杰米回应称此前因为“副总统到访”出于安保考虑把刀收走了，所幸罗根随身带着小刀，最终合力将盒子撬开。 盒子里整齐码放着为不同选手专属定制的雪茄，包括德鲁·多伯（Drew Dober）款以及斯特林专属的“Funk Master”款。聊起雪茄的产地和工艺，斯特林提到原料来自古巴与尼加拉瓜等优质烟叶产地。罗根一边熟练地调试高档的 Colibri 雪茄剪，一边调侃起古巴雪茄在市面上的真伪难辨。随后两人还打趣杰米从不抽雪茄、只抽大麻钝烟（Blunt），甚至调侃杰米为了不犯法，得专程坐西南航空去邻近的俄克拉荷马州猛吸几口大麻再飞回得克萨斯。罗根回忆起早年在迈阿密演出时，亲眼目睹卷烟师现场手工切叶、卷制雪茄的精湛手艺；斯特林表示自己也体验过卷烟，罗根则笑称这种精细活就像脑外科手术一样，必须交给真正的专家，自己可不敢轻易尝试。 - **定制雪茄系列**：Triumph Cigars 旗下为格斗名将定制的专属支线（含 Drew Dober 与 Funk Master 专属款）。 - **烟叶来源与配件**：涵盖古巴及尼加拉瓜烟叶；现场配备高品质 Colibri 专业雪茄剪。 - **演播室安保插曲**：桌上的常用大刀因此前政要（副总统）到访录制节目而提前移走。 ### [22:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1356s) 斯特林的副业：Funk Harbor 朗姆酒与喜剧俱乐部“母舰”的命名故事 雪茄点燃后，话题自然转向了斯特林脖子上挂着的显眼项链——他的自主品牌“Funk Harbor”朗姆酒。斯特林得意地展示自己的成果，笑称自己现在也是“有钱人”了，并透露这款朗姆酒在各大烈酒评比中斩获了多项殊荣，其中两款产品分别拿下了两枚双金奖（Double Gold）。兴奋之余，罗根立刻张罗杰米拿来冰块和威士忌酒杯，准备在演播室开怀畅饮，斯特林也打趣说待会儿正好可以一起去罗根创办的“喜剧母舰”（Comedy Mothership）俱乐部转转。 聊到“喜剧母舰”这个俱乐部名称的由来，罗根分享了一段幕后渊源。起初，俱乐部曾考虑过向洛杉矶喜剧工坊（The Comedy Store）已故传奇老板娘米兹·肖尔（Mitzi Shore）致敬。米兹当年曾留下一句名言：“疯人院如今由疯子自己当家作主（The inmates are running the asylum）。”罗根团队原本想将俱乐部定名为“疯人院”（The Asylum），但反复琢磨后觉得略显老套陈旧。后来，第一批搬迁到奥斯汀的单口喜剧大拿罗恩·怀特（Ron White）点醒了他——怀特指出得州地处全美腹地，飞往纽约或洛杉矶都仅需约 3 个小时，地理位置绝佳。罗根随即联想到，这就像是一艘悬停在核心位置的“太空母舰”，其他穿梭机随时可以从基地起飞前往各个地方，再加上他本人对外星人和不明飞行物由来已久的痴迷，“喜剧母舰”这个名字便顺理成章地诞生了。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 喜剧母舰名称演变与构想来源 accDescr: 展示罗根从最初疯人院构想转变为喜剧母舰命名的思考流程 subgraph Ideation ["早期灵感与推翻"] A["米兹·肖尔名言：疯子掌管疯人院"] --> B["初定命名：The Asylum（疯人院）"] B --> C{"评审思考：是否过于陈词滥调？"} C -- "否定：太老套刻板" --> D["放弃原案"] end subgraph FinalConcept ["核心确立：母舰概念"] E["罗恩·怀特观点：奥斯汀居中，飞东飞西皆3小时"] --> F["战略基地：类似运送各路飞船的太空母舰"] G["罗根个人情怀：对外星人与UFO的狂热痴迷"] --> F F --> H["正式确立：Comedy Mothership（喜剧母舰）"] end D --> F ``` ### [24:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1467s) 品饮朗姆酒、意式狂欢与大吃大喝的代价 倒上朗姆酒后，斯特林向罗根介绍了手里两款酒的工艺细节：当天品尝的是限量编号 1 号的特别版，全系列采用牙买加优质原料，在热带阳光下陈酿 2 至 5 年，并且使用了前波本威士忌橡木桶（Ex-bourbon cask）进行陈化熟成，因而入口带有一丝类似波本的醇顺甘润，不显辛辣刺激；另一款未陈酿的则是银朗姆酒（Silver Rum）。谈到为何创立朗姆酒品牌，斯特林表示自己的父母都来自牙买加，朗姆酒是流淌在家族血液里的传统文化。罗根碰杯致意（“Salute”），同时幽默地吐槽道自己的父母虽然来自意大利，但他对意大利传统的果渣白兰地（Grappa）却厌恶至极，直斥那玩意儿难喝得要命。 烈酒下肚，罗根兴致勃勃地聊起自己两周前去意大利度假的暴食经历。在那趟旅程中，罗根彻底抛弃了日常严苛的饮食节制，哪怕每天坚持锻炼，摄入的主食碳水也完全失控。他回忆自己曾在一个晚上疯狂扫荡了两整张披萨、一整份蛤蜊扁面（Linguini with clams）、大块布拉塔奶酪（Burrata）配番茄，以及堆成小山的餐前面包。罗根形容自己当晚撑到动弹不得，就像一头在非洲草原上吃到肚子滚圆、只能瘫倒在地的饱食雄狮。 ### [26:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1600s) 极端减重与级别转换：从雏量级到羽量级的体重谜题 罗根对大吃大喝后腹胀难耐的生动描摹，立刻引起了斯特林的强烈共鸣。斯特林坦言，这种赛后毫无节制的狂吃正是他早年在雏量级（135磅）征战时的常态，只要称重和比赛一结束，整个人就会陷入彻底的暴饮暴食。 罗根回忆起此前在 UFC Apex 场馆偶遇斯特林的一幕，当时斯特林处于非比赛期，随口报出的日常体重竟高达 176 磅。罗根惊呼这相当于要从身上硬生生切掉超过 40 磅的体重才能达标，过程极其残酷与危险。而斯特林随即透露了一个令人惊奇的生理现象：当他选择升重到羽量级（145磅）之后，在日常饮食方式没有发生任何改变的情况下，他的自然游走体重反而自动下降了，平时大约只维持在 168 磅左右。告别了以往极端的减重压榨，身体内分泌反而找到了更健康、更自然的平衡点。 ### [27:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1630s) 减重的残酷真相与级别划分改革构想 阿尔加麦恩·斯特林与乔·罗根深入探讨了选手的体重控制与降重过程中的身体心理变化。斯特林升入羽量级（145磅）后，发现自己的体重在 166 磅到 172 磅之间波动，甚至感觉比以前打雏量级（135磅）时还要轻盈，整个人状态轻松很多。罗根分析，这很大程度上是因为心理上对降重的焦虑大幅减轻，使得身体不再应激性地死守水分与脂肪。不过斯特林也坦白，就在录制前两天称重时，自己的体重已经反弹到了 178 磅，逼近 180 磅大关。令人惊叹的是，即便在近 180 磅的状态下，他外表看起来依然毫无赘肉，身材精壮。 这种体型与体重的反差常让圈外普通人（"normies"）深感困惑，甚至好奇一名精瘦的拳手究竟如何能在短时间内凭空减掉几十磅。罗根指出，常人无法理解这种极限降重并不是在减脂，而是在抽干肌肉与内脏器官里的每一滴水分，这个过程极端痛苦且暗无天日（"It's dark, dude. It's dark. It's the worst part about fighting."），绝对是职业格斗中最折磨人的一环。罗根重申自己支持推行“赛日当天称重”，尽管斯特林担忧仍有选手会铤而走险过度脱水导致伤亡，但罗根坚信这是一个必经的阵痛期，只有经历这一阶段，选手们才会意识到极限脱水的愚蠢，从而选择在符合自身自然体重的级别作赛。 针对目前级别跨度过大的问题，两人一致认为必须增加更多细分级别。目前轻量级（155磅）到次中量级（170磅）足足有 15 磅的鸿沟，而中量级（185磅）到轻重量级（205磅）之间更是夸张地存在 20 磅的断层。罗根提出，最理想的方案是每隔 10 磅设立一个量级：从 125、135、145、155，再到 165、175、185、195、205 磅，而在重量级下方增设一个 220 磅或 225 磅的过渡级别（如次重量级/Bridgerweight），在此之上则彻底取消重量级上限，让真正的巨汉们自由竞争。 ### [29:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1765s) 重量级巨汉的变迁：从蒂姆·西尔维亚到德斯佩涅 罗根对目前重量级设立 265 磅的上限表示强烈不解，认为这违背了重量级决出“地球上最凶悍庞大之人”的初衷。他回忆起前 UFC 重量级冠军蒂姆·西尔维亚（Tim Sylvia）处于巅峰且“上了科技”（saucy）的时期，当时西尔维亚体型庞大异常，每次都要经历极其残忍的极限减重才能勉强压到 265 磅的上限线。罗根认为强行让这种巨汉脱水毫无逻辑，反而削弱了比赛的质量。事实上，历史上许多极具统治力的重量级拳王体型并不算大，例如迈克·泰森（Mike Tyson）横扫拳坛时体重仅在 220 磅上下，凯恩·维拉斯奎兹（Cain Velasquez）统治 UFC 时日常体重也维持在 240 磅左右，而“格斗沙皇”菲多·艾米连科（Fedor Emelianenko）相比同时代的诸多巨兽而言体型也相当轻巧。 随后斯特林提到了当今赛场上的现代巨汉——古巴跆拳道名将罗贝利斯·德斯佩涅（Robelis Despaigne）。德斯佩涅拥有高达 84 英寸（约 213 厘米）的惊人臂展和庞大身躯，被罗根形容为“现代尼安德特人”和“亚马逊巨人”。罗根谈到在由洛夫·佩吉（MVP）等推广的裸拳/站立格斗赛事中看到德斯佩涅与前 UFC 重量级冠军“小菊”儒尼奥尔·多斯·桑托斯（Junior Dos Santos, JDS）配对时，内心深感不忍，甚至直言“千万别打这场，太残忍了”。多斯·桑托斯已过巅峰，而德斯佩涅正值暴烈当打之年，且多斯·桑托斯并非摔跤手，无法通过摔法压制规避站立打击，这场对决展现了职业格斗中极其残酷的新老交替。 ### [31:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1879s) 凯恩对决JDS的惨烈战争与AKA兄弟情 这段讨论随即引出了对多斯·桑托斯职业生涯黄金时期的回忆。两人回顾起 2011 年 11 月 UFC 历史上具有里程碑意义的首次 FOX 免费电视直播主赛。当时凯恩·维拉斯奎兹带重度膝伤勉强登场，开局不久便被多斯·桑托斯一记标志性的强力右手摆拳精准命中打晕，让多斯·桑托斯夺得重量级冠军头衔。然而在此之后的 15 年间，多斯·桑托斯经历了一系列惨烈至极的恶战，包括与斯蒂佩·米欧奇（Stipe Miocic）的残酷厮杀，以及与凯恩之间的二番战和三番战。在那两场复仇战中，多斯·桑托斯遭受了极其可怕的长期钝击摧残，比赛过程令人触目惊心。罗根评价道，巅峰期的凯恩是一头彻头彻尾的野兽，如果对手未能在第一回合迅速将他解决，那么凯恩那永动机般的压迫风暴将永无止境（"if you don't take Cain out in that first round, that storm never ends"）。 斯特林感叹凯恩与丹尼尔·科米尔（Daniel Cormier, DC）在 AKA 拳馆的深厚队友情谊，直言这让他想到了自己与好友梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）的羁绊。为了避免在重量级与老大哥凯恩同室操戈，科米尔选择降到轻重量级。斯特林认为如果科米尔当年一直留在重量级，完全有潜力加冕史上最伟大的重量级选手，但科米尔自己在训练馆里始终坦承，凯恩才是真正的头号王者，在训练对打中总是将自己揍得落花流水。 ### [33:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=1982s) DC降重假设与斯特林的分阶段减重体系 罗根抛出了一个大胆的设想：科米尔其实完全有骨架底子去打 185 磅的中量级。斯特林对此表示怀疑，打趣称科米尔对大力水手炸鸡（Popeyes）等美食毫无抵抗力，自律程度根本支撑不了这种跨度。斯特林回忆自己在 2014 年 UFC 170 迎来八角笼首秀时，在曼德勒海湾酒店的后台亲眼目睹科米尔减重至 205 磅轻重量级的过程，当时的科米尔脱水脱到神态近乎濒死，极其凄惨。 罗根则坚称，科米尔的实际身高可能只有 5 尺 10 寸到 5 尺 11 寸，甚至更矮。像德里克斯·杜·普莱西斯（Dricus Du Plessis）或乔·派弗（Joe Pyfer）这样体格犹如重量级的选手如今都能降到 185 磅中量级。如果科米尔愿意痛下决心改变生活方式，远离垃圾食品，进行为期一年的系统生酮饮食调节与慢速减脂，将体脂完全刷干，他在中量级将拥有无穷无尽的体能和彻底统治力。罗根特意提到了当年科米尔在 205 磅碾压 Dan Henderson 的比赛，将一代硬汉亨德森像翻汉堡一样高高抛起重摔在地，完全当成布娃娃肆意蹂躏。 斯特林随后解释了科学降重周期的必要性。正是因为减重负担极大，他在征战 135 磅雏量级期间绝无法在 3 个月内连续频繁接战，最理想的备战周期必须达到 4 个月。他在休赛期享受生活时体重达到自然巡航状态，随后必须通过严格的分阶段饮食与训练逐步向下剥离体重，确保站上八角笼当晚能够恢复至最具竞争力的体格。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 斯特林雏量级分阶段渐进降重流程 accDescr: 展示阿尔加麦恩·斯特林在备战135磅级别时4个月内的体重阶段性递减路径 subgraph Phase1 ["非备战期巡航状态"] A["日常自然状态 / 巡航体重<br/>（约 178 - 180 磅，健康无多余脂肪）"] end subgraph Phase2 ["4个月备战递减期"] B["阶段目标一：下调至 170 磅区间"] C["阶段目标二：次周稳步下调至 165 磅"] D["阶段目标三：进入理想营地体重 160 磅"] end subgraph Phase3 ["决战阶段"] E["临赛状态 / 八角笼实际作战体重<br/>（约 155 磅）"] F["极限脱水过称<br/>（称重达标：135 磅）"] end A --> B B --> C C --> D D --> E E --> F ``` - **斯特林日常巡航体重**：在非备战期间，其体脂极低的情况下自然体重可达 178 磅，逼近 180 磅。 - **10磅量级增设计划**：罗根建议废除 155 至 205 磅之间过大的跨度，采用 125、135、145、155、165、175、185、195、205、225 及无上限重量级的梯队分布。 - **历史战例节点**：多斯·桑托斯在 2011 年 UFC 首场 FOX 直播主赛中 KO 凯恩，随后在与凯恩、米欧奇的长年血战中承受了难以估量的头部创伤。 - **科米尔身体数据与战例**：身高约 5 尺 10 寸至 5 尺 11 寸；曾在 UFC 173 中将轻重量级名宿丹·亨德森彻底“布娃娃化”高抛重摔。 - **雏量级备战时间窗**：斯特林强调在 135 磅级别比赛需要整整 4 个月周期进行台阶式减重，无法承担 3 个月短时间内的连续接战。 ### [36:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=2206s) 摔跤手减重心态、体能落差与静脉注射（IV）的迷思 阿尔加麦恩·斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）谈到了摔跤手在降重时的固有心态：虽然他们有能力在极短时间内迅速减重，但身体机能却无法真正到位。在实战备战中，他在训练馆里打到第四、五回合时精力充沛，自嘲体能好得“宛如梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）”，然而一旦走进八角笼打冠军赛的高压局，打到后半段却不得不刻意节约体力。他能明显感到自己的节奏慢了下来，却还要极力隐藏这种疲态，不让对手察觉。 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）顺势询问，UFC 当初允许选手使用静脉注射补液（IV）与后来出台禁令之间，身体状态是否有实质性区别。斯特林的回答却出人意料——他职业生涯中仅在 2015 年左右用过一次 IV。他觉得挂水太浪费时间，当时心里只想：“我明明可以坐在这大吃一顿，而且吃完后的体重跟输完液一模一样，那我为什么不直接塞饱肚子？”罗根解释称，IV 的原理是不经胃肠吸收直接进入血管，能更快速、高效地为脱水的肌肉细胞补充水分，但斯特林坦言，就赛场表现而言，自己完全没感受到任何差异。 - 斯特林指出脱水过急会让身体在后半程掉电，比赛里的第四、五回合体能损耗与馆内训练截然不同。 - 斯特林职业生涯仅使用过一次静脉输液（2015 年），随后果断放弃，转而完全依靠进食恢复体重。 --- ### [37:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=2263s) 备战期饮酒、赛前夜习惯与健康追踪器的“攻击” 斯特林承认自己在格斗圈是个“异类”，许多人直呼看不懂他的做法——他不仅在备战训练营期间饮酒，甚至在称重降重完成后的比赛前夜，还会喝上一两杯酒。罗根对此大为震惊，连问他为什么要这么做。斯特林笑称自己比不上乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones），琼斯属于那种才华横溢又狂放不羁的天才，哪怕在备战中自我放纵、给身体制造劣势，依然能统治世界冠军赛场；而对斯特林自己来说，饮酒纯粹是一种心理调节。正如摔跤名将凯尔·戴克（Kyle Dake）会在训练期吃冰淇淋只为求个开心一样，斯特林在经历一整天的硬核实战并达到体能预期后，也把喝一杯当作达标的“犒赏节点”。 聊到酒精对恢复的影响时，罗根询问他是否戴过 Oura 智能戒指或 Whoop 手环。斯特林立刻开启了吐槽模式，直呼那些设备“太烦人了，每天都在无情攻击我”，因为追踪器总是用冰冷的科学数据提醒他“酒精严重毁掉了深度睡眠”。斯特林干脆把设备摘下来扔进角落，罗根在一旁大笑着补刀：“去他的事实与数据！” 为了证明自己的作风，斯特林分享了邀请阿德里安·亚涅斯（Adrian Yanez）来纽约长岛协助备战彼得·严（Petr Yan）二番战的往事。周四高强度实战结束后，斯特林带着亚涅斯前往马萨佩夸（Massapequa）的爱尔兰酒吧 Johnny McGorey's，酒吧老板里希（Rishi）曾是克里斯·魏德曼（Chris Weidman）和吉安·维兰特（Gian Villante）在霍夫斯特拉大学时期的好友。当斯特林坐下来点酒并顺手给亚涅斯也点了一杯时，亚涅斯目瞪口呆，仿佛看到了全天下最大的禁忌。但对斯特林而言，泰式甜辣鸡翅配精酿 IPA 是他多年封训的固定仪式。他坚信只要心态坦然就无所畏惧：“如果我因为赛前喝了这一杯酒而输掉比赛，那说明我本来就不配赢，就这么简单。” - 斯特林备战期每周达到体能检查点（Checkpoint）后会小酌放松，赛前夜称重后通常也会喝 1 至 2 杯。 - 智能穿戴设备的睡眠监控被斯特林调侃为“每日人身攻击”，因而被他彻底弃用。 - 斯特林每次在东海岸打完训练营，都会与好友里希保持去酒吧吃甜辣鸡翅、喝 IPA 啤酒的赛前习惯。 --- ### [41:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=2466s) 胜负毫厘之间：深度睡眠之辩与心态力量 面对斯特林的“赛前一杯酒”哲学，罗根提出了严肃的反驳。罗根设想了一个极端的顶尖对决场景：假使面对的是莫夫萨尔·埃夫洛耶夫（Movsar Evloev）这种旗鼓相当、棋逢对手的硬茬，比赛胜负往往取决于百分之一的微小差距。如果因为赛前那一两杯酒损失了宝贵的快速眼动睡眠（REM sleep），导致比赛末段少了一口气，可能就做不出那一次至关重要的破防、转位、过路或降服尝试，从而葬送整个回合。 斯特林对此表现得颇为从容，表示自己比赛当天会通过规律的午睡来把电量彻底充满。两人随即聊到现任羽量级冠军伊利亚·托普里亚（Ilia Topuria），托普里亚在减重降重期间甚至有喝红酒的习惯，这证明格斗界根本不存在放之四海而皆准的绝对公式。罗根也赞同道，对选手来说，保持充沛的热情与愉悦的心境是极度被低估的竞技要素，找到能让自己精神放松的方式至关重要。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Head-and-Arm Choke Dynamics and Defense accDescr: Top-control head-and-arm choke contrasted with leg-hook defense and Eddie Bravo's Impaler counter. subgraph Defense["防守方机制"] D1["抓抱自身单腿 / 勾腿"] --> D2["架开受压颈侧空间"] D2 --> D3["身体侧转垂直于地面，化解下压基底"] end subgraph Counter["攻击方压制技术"] A1["常规头部手臂三角绞"] --> A2{"遇勾腿防守阻滞"} A2 -->|破解变招| A3["穿刺者技术 (The Impaler)"] A3 --> A4["单膝重重推切胸骨 (Knee on Sternum)"] A4 --> A5["胸骨碾压剧痛 + 颈部绞杀双重受压"] end D1 -.->|有效阻断| A1 A4 -.->|破坏侧转框架| D3 ``` --- ### [42:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=2531s) 争议“拍垫认输”、手臂三角绞与“穿刺者”（The Impaler）技术拆解 随后两人将话题转向斯特林的队友丹尼斯·布祖克亚（Dennis Buzukja）刚在阿尔巴尼亚打完的比赛。场上裁判贾森·赫尔佐格（Jason Herzog）判定布祖克亚拍垫认输并叫停了比赛，但这引发了极大争议。斯特林直言虽然自己很尊重赫尔佐格，但这绝对是一个严重误判——布祖克亚当时是在遭遇手臂三角绞（Head-and-Arm Choke）时，试图将双手解开去抓自己的腿借力蹬开防守，动作看起来像是拍了一下，但根本没有认输意图。斯特林认为，裁判在不确定的情况下本应等待片刻，因为如果选手真的坚持不住，必然会连续多次拍击。 斯特林进一步分析了手臂三角绞的受招机制：在地面抓腿是化解颈部压力的经典防守动作。作为柔术黑带，斯特林表示布祖克亚在该体位下的抗绞能力极强，自己在馆里都极难在这个把位降服他。罗根随即科普了由埃迪·布拉沃（Eddie Bravo）创立并命名的“穿刺者”（The Impaler）破解技巧： 1. **胸骨切入**：上位进攻者在施展手臂三角绞时，将膝盖径直滑插推切到防守者的胸骨上（Knee on Sternum）； 2. **两线夹击**：防守者的胸腔受到全身重量的沉重碾压，原本依靠抱腿构建的颈部防御空间瞬间瓦解，选手同时承受窒息与胸骨剧痛； 3. **身体角度限制**：斯特林补充道，这一招必须在防守方彻底翻侧身之前使出，一旦防守方身体与地面完全垂直、进攻者臀部翘起悬空，绞杀的压力点就会偏移，很难形成有效终结。 话题最后延伸到了全能缠斗高手雅罗斯拉夫·阿莫索夫（Yaroslav Amosov）的统治力，以及在 Bellator/PFL 擂台上击败阿莫索夫的牙买加同胞杰森·杰克逊（Jason Jackson）。斯特林盛赞杰克逊是自己的“牙买加兄弟”，重击爆发力极其恐怖；罗根对此深表认同，力挺 UFC 应当尽快将杰克逊签入麾下，并感叹如果综合格斗界能像职业拳击那样打破赛事壁垒、促成跨组织对决（Cross-promotion）该有多好。 ### [45:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=2722s) 街舞与柔术的跨界结合与 Eddie Bravo 的开放教学 在复盘一段地面缠斗细节时，乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出选手通过将膝盖横向压在对手胸骨上使其身体彻底压平，从而阻止对方侧身逃脱。阿尔加麦恩·斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）赞叹这套控制令人叹为观止，并戏称对手完全束手无策。罗根随即谈到，街舞（Breakdancing）其实是巴西柔术绝佳的基础底子。他回忆起 2000 年代初加入 10th Planet 柔术体系的马丁内斯兄弟（Richie Martinez 与 Gio Martinez）——在过去，人们普遍认为体操、翻滚选手的爆发力、平衡感、核心控制和身体力量能够完美转化到柔术中，但从未有人想过街舞也是类似的存在。街舞者常常能单臂支撑倒立，双腿在头顶上方盘成莲花座并单手弹跳，这种不可思议的身体掌控力极具杀伤力。 罗根提到，10th Planet 创始人埃迪·布拉沃（Eddie Bravo）甚至曾把街舞动作纳入柔术的体能与力量训练中。埃迪始终保持着极其开明包容的武术哲学：只要在课堂上有人用某种新颖奇特的方式降服了对手，埃迪就会立刻叫停整堂课，让全班学员围拢过来，让当事人演示这个动作是如何布置设立的。随后埃迪会向全场发问：“谁觉得自己能破解这招？谁有办法逃出来？”大家便会当场轮番尝试不同的反制招式，深入拆解推演每一种应对可能。这种对新技巧毫无偏见的开放态度，让他的课堂始终充满活力与探索精神。 - 里奇·马丁内斯（Richie Martinez）与吉奥·马丁内斯（Gio Martinez）：早期从街舞（B-Boy）转型柔术，迅速成为 10th Planet 体系顶尖缠斗高手的典型代表。 - 街舞对格斗的赋能：极端的单臂平衡、核心抗扭转能力、下肢灵活性与爆发力均可无缝迁移至无道服柔术（No-Gi BJJ）。 --- ### [47:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=2836s) 缠斗损伤与伤病权衡：从退役转型到兼顾生活 当斯特林询问罗根现在是否还练柔术时，罗根坦言自己已经很久没有系统缠斗了。他此前曾与加布·塔特尔（Gabe Tuttle）一起训练过一阵，但自己的一只膝盖总是不间断地出现问题。到了如今的年纪，罗根表示自己热爱的事情太多，绝不想再去经历漫长的手术康复期。“到了我这个岁数还在死磕缠斗的人，人人都要做椎间盘置换，做完一次手术又来一次手术，”罗根感慨道，比如马特·塞拉（Matt Serra）最近也接受了全膝关节置换手术，“人必须明白，有些损伤是不可逆的、伴随终生的。”在日常生活中，人还要能正常走路、陪孩子玩耍、去户外徒步，而高强度的缠斗极易摧毁身体。罗根现在依然每天高强度健身、打沙袋、练踢拳，但只要一沾柔术，膝盖就会隐隐作痛。 这番话让斯特林联想到了队友“狂暴阿尔”阿尔·亚昆塔（Al Iaquinta）。两人为亚昆塔过早受困于伤病感到惋惜，罗根直言亚昆塔在毫无准备周期、临危受命的情况下，曾给哈比卜·努尔马戈梅多夫（Khabib Nurmagomedov）制造了巨大的麻烦，即便部分哈比卜的粉丝不愿承认并声称哈比卜当时只是在“玩弄对手”，但在顶尖职业赛场上绝没有哪个拳手会拿冠军战开玩笑，巅峰期的亚昆塔绝对是一头硬骨头猛兽。如今亚昆塔转型做房地产经纪人十分成功。斯特林提到自己曾跟亚昆塔共事过一段时间，但后来发现精力完全被榨干，最终选择专注于创立自己的朗姆酒品牌 Funk Harbor。罗根深有感触地感叹，人的时间和精力会被迅速吞噬，自己常常恨不得能拥有多重人生去体验不同事物，无奈现实中热爱的事情太多，只能忍痛做减法。 - 马特·塞拉（Matt Serra）：前 UFC 次中量级冠军，近期接受了人工膝关节置换手术。 - 阿尔·亚昆塔（Al Iaquinta）：在 UFC 223 临时顶替出战哈比卜打满五回合，退役后成功转型从事房地产行业。 --- ### [49:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=2966s) 转身侧踢的极致力学：直线穿透与旋转力量的差异 斯特林谈及自己非常想向罗根讨教其招牌的“转身后踢”（Spinning Back Kick），并提到曾看过罗根指导乔治·圣皮埃尔（Georges St-Pierre，GSP）该动作的经典教学视频。斯特林表示自己虽然常在比赛中“转圈以求胜”（Spin to win），但总觉得罗根的发力方式与众不同。罗根随即从跆拳道运动力学角度进行了极其深入的剖析：大众和解说员习惯泛称其为转身后踢，但在传统跆拳道体系中，该动作更准确的叫法是“转身侧踢”（Turning Side Kick）。绝大多数没有受过传统跆拳道系统训练的格斗选手，在做动作时踢出的是一道弧线轨迹；弧线虽然也能凭借体重和惯性造成伤害，但力矩完全无法与直线发力相提并论。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 转身踢击力学对比 accDescr: 对比环形弧线后踢与传统直线转身侧踢的力学传导差异 subgraph Circular["常见环形转身后踢"] C1["躯干旋转带动腿部"] --> C2["形成弧形旋转力矩"] C2 --> C3["接触点受力分散"] end subgraph Linear["罗根式直线转身侧踢"] L1["迅速转髋与后脚蹬地"] --> L2["核心肌群驱动直线蹬出"] L2 --> L3["瞬间聚焦全部动能穿透目标"] end ``` 罗根解释，普通的挥臂大摆拳也能凭借力量击晕人，但掌握托马斯·赫恩斯（Thomas Hearns）或德昂泰·维尔德（Deontay Wilder）那种以腰髋扭转、沿直线如长矛般刺出的重拳，才能在接触点释放出毁灭性的贯穿力。直线转身侧踢同样如此：后脚蹬地发力，腹肌和臀髋极致收紧，整条腿以最短的直线像活塞一样蹬出。“这记重击一旦结结实实命中，对手必倒无疑，甚至直接送进医院，肉体根本无法承受这种冲击力。”罗根回忆自己 19 岁在康涅狄格州参加全美杯（US Cup）跆拳道赛时，一记转身侧踢直接将对手整个人凌空踢飞，那一刻他就知道比赛已经结束，甚至头也不回地从容离场，那种冲击力宛如被高速行驶的汽车撞击。 罗根与斯特林还探讨了乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）在 UFC 309 对阵斯蒂佩·米奥奇（Stipe Miocic）时运用的转身后踢。米奥奇作为重量级历史上最坚韧的战士之一，肋部吃下这一击后瞬间身体崩溃跪地。罗根透露，琼斯升入重量级前非常清醒，深知自己在该级别缺乏一拳击倒对手的天赋重拳，于是反复推演寻找杀伤力最强的击打武器，最终选定了转身后踢，并为此每周安排整整三天时间专门打磨这一项技术，展现了令人惊叹的技术针对性。 --- ### [52:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3178s) 商业赞助插播：BetterHelp 心理健康支持 节目中穿插了赞助商 BetterHelp 的推广内容。罗根向听众推荐线上心理咨询平台，指出用户可以通过访问专门链接，查阅数百位真实用户的反馈体验。通过简单的问卷评估，平台能够根据用户的个性化需求精准匹配专业的心理咨询师；如果双方在沟通磨合中觉得不合适，用户还可以随时申请更换其他咨询师，为寻求心理支持的人群提供了便捷、私密且灵活的选择。 --- ### [53:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3224s) 乔恩·琼斯的顶级战术智商与格斗重击天赋 在谈到乔恩·琼斯时，斯特林与罗根对其超凡的格斗智商（Fight IQ）赞不绝口。罗根强调，琼斯之所以能长期统治赛场，核心优势不仅在于身体硬件，更在于他对自己身体能力的极度透彻了解。琼斯清醒地意识到自己的骨骼框架和发力模式在重量级很难像纯正重炮手那样单拳终结对手，因此他能跳出传统思维，利用顶级的战术设计与针对性技术（如转身侧踢）来弥补不足，并将其化为致命武器。 最后，两人感叹起格斗运动中神秘的天赋差异。罗根与斯特林一致认为，纯粹的拳击重击力量（Punching Power）是一种罕见的天然禀赋：有些运动员从踏进拳馆、第一次戴上手套击打手靶开始，就能爆发出令人毛骨悚然的重击声响，那种杀伤力是与生俱来的，而技术流大师则必须依靠极致的战术智商与发力机制去构建自己的制胜体系。 ### [54:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3263s) 拳头尺寸与重击天赋：托普里亚、康纳与摔跤手的双手 乔·罗根与阿尔加麦恩·斯特林探讨了搏击选手的终结能力与重击力量的天赋问题。罗根指出，重击能力在很大程度上是一种天赋，“要么你有，要么你没有；如果你没有，后天能提升的幅度非常有限”，这在物理学上与选手的骨架和手掌尺寸密切相关。斯特林自嘲自己直到现在都还在琢磨自己到底有没有这种力量，因为他的臂展虽然很长，但手臂相对纤细，手掌也不算大；而像伊利亚·托普里亚（Ilia Topuria）那样的选手，尽管臂展不算出挑，却长着一双巨大无比的重拳铁拳。 两人随即聊起了康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor），罗根称赞康纳同样拥有异常巨大的拳头，这是击倒对手的天然物理优势。斯特林笑着调侃自己的手天生就不是用来“一拳KO”的，而是“用来抓握和缠斗的”。罗根对此表示赞同，认为这就是综合格斗（MMA）相比于纯拳击最美妙的地方——在八角笼中，终结比赛的方式多种多样，摔跤与降服技巧同样能让对手无可奈何。 ### [55:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3313s) 尤索夫之战复盘与升至145磅的体能红利 斯特林将话题转到他升入羽量级（145磅）首战对阵索迪克·尤索夫（Sodiq Yusuff）的比赛，并询问罗根在赛前究竟是如何看待这场对决的。斯特林透露，赛前他一直觉得这场对决会是自己职业生涯中最艰苦的硬仗之一。两人早在2017年就一起训练过，最近两年也合练过数次。斯特林深知尤索夫在站立状态下的移动极其出色，不仅侧向步伐扎实，低扫卡夫踢（calf kick）极其凶狠，中路迎击的顶膝更是能瞬间改变比赛走势，甚至直接将人打晃送走；更何况尤索夫在过去的训练中还曾经降服过斯特林一次，这无疑会给对方巨大的心理优势。 为了克制尤索夫的优势，斯特林制定了严密的战术：开局必须在游走外围的同时施加有效压迫，迫使尤索夫后退，从而削弱其重击低扫的施力支点，并且一定要争取率先完成摔跤抱摔。最终比赛进程比斯特林预想的还要顺利。罗根指出，斯特林当时在比赛中虽一度遭遇险情，但成功挣脱并掌控了局势；更重要的是，升入145磅之后的斯特林仿佛变成了“另一头猛兽”，抗击打能力、体能储备与身体坚韧度（resilience）都因为不再极端脱水而大幅提升。 - **赛前交手历史**：斯特林与尤索夫曾于2017年合练，近两年亦有实战切磋，尤索夫曾在训练中降服过斯特林。 - **战术核心**：利用压迫将尤索夫推向笼边后退，废掉其势大力沉的卡夫踢蓄力，优先建立地面摔跤优势。 - **升重优势**：摆脱135磅（雏量级）极限脱水后，斯特林在145磅拥有更充沛的体能和更好的抗击打容错率。 ### [57:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3425s) 减重顽疾与称重改革：当天称重与随机抽称的构想 罗根由衷希望职业搏击能够彻底消除极限减重恶疾，甚至曾与UFC官方高层深入探讨过这一方案，但他无奈地承认目前根本没有可行的解决路径。一旦选手脑海中建立起“必须通过脱水降重来获得体型优势”的观念，即使调整量级，他们依然会选择严重脱水去打比赛。斯特林提到大学摔跤时期他们经常在称重后一到两小时就登台比赛，但罗根强调MMA与摔跤有着本质不同：摔跤不会遭遇头部的重击爆头，而带着严重脱水的大脑遭受拳腿打击，极易引发致命的颅脑损伤，这也是UFC现阶段坚持提前一天称重以保护选手的核心原因。 斯特林进而提出了“比赛日当天称重、并给予4小时进食消化与热身”的设想。他认为这样能倒逼选手接受现实——没有人敢在比赛当天脱水20磅然后直接登台挨揍，那些试图冒险减重的人会在擂台上惨败并被自然淘汰，从而促使选手升到适合自己的真实体重。两人还讨论了比照反兴奋剂（如USADA）随机药检的做法，实行“非赛季随机突击称重”。不过罗根也指出商业赛事的现实困境：如果头条主赛或大型付费PPV直播当天有大牌明星超重，赛事方几乎不可能取消比赛。斯特林表示，如果在真实体重下只需临时降2磅，当天减掉根本不费吹灰之力，而若实行当天称重，他自己会选择在155磅（轻量级）甚至165磅比赛，既不需要受饥饿与极度脱水之苦，又能以最佳精神状态与同体型的对手硬碰硬。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Weight Cutting Reform Proposal accDescr: A comparison between current MMA weight cutting risks and Sterling's proposed reforms for fighter health and safety. subgraph CurrentSystem["现有称重模式 (提前一天称重)"] A["大幅极端脱水 (15-20+ 磅)"] --> B["称重达标后24小时补水"] B --> C["大脑未完全恢复液态缓冲即遭击打"] C --> D["脑震荡及重伤风险剧增"] end subgraph ProposedReforms["改革构想方案"] E["方案一: 比赛当天称重 (留4小时进食)"] F["方案二: 比照药检实行随机突击称重"] G["增设中间量级 (如165磅等过渡级别)"] end ProposedReforms --> H["倒逼选手回归真实体力量级"] H --> I["减少水分抽干，提升比赛耐久力与安全性"] ``` ### [01:00:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3643s) 拳击与MMA量级划分之争：从帕奎奥八冠王到170磅次中量级 探讨减重问题自然引申到了量级设置的密度。罗根认为，如果真想推行健康称重，唯一行之有效的前提是增加量级密度，比如每隔10磅设立一个量级。两人对比了拳击与UFC的量级划分：拳击的量级极其密集，甚至出现每隔3到4磅就有一个级别的情况，低级别细分到了原子量级（Atomweight）、草量级（Strawweight/Minimumweight）和蝇量级，拳击的雏量级（Bantamweight）上限仅有118磅，而MMA的雏量级则是135磅。斯特林打趣道，如果去酒吧跟女孩搭讪说自己打的是“最低量级”（Minimumweight），场面简直滑稽得难以置信。 罗根指出，正是这种密集的量级划分，才成就了曼尼·帕奎奥（Manny Pacquiao）跨越八个级别夺得世界金腰带的传奇神话。两人接着吐槽了拳击与综合格斗在量级称谓上的混乱与割裂：拳击历史悠久，自古以来的次中量级（Welterweight）都是147磅（如舒格·雷·伦纳德、托米·赫恩斯、罗伯托·杜兰等传奇征战的级别）；然而UFC却将170磅命名为次中量级，完全背离了传统格斗史的命名逻辑。斯特林笑称这就像美国非要坚持使用英制单位（英寸、英磅）对抗公制单位（厘米、公斤）一样，美国创立现代MMA规则时似乎就抱着“推翻旧规矩、偏要与众不同”的心态。罗根最后回忆道，早期UFC在弗兰克·夏姆洛克（Frank Shamrock）统治时期实际上只有两个宽泛的重量级别，后来的命名更多是为了让大众能借用熟悉的拳击词汇迅速理解赛事。 ### [01:03:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3785s) 量级命名的荒谬与纯体重分级构想 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）与阿尔加麦恩·斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）从早期的无限制级别聊起，罗根直言格斗界现行的量级名称十分荒谬。他认为所有格斗项目都应该效仿摔跤，直接用选手的实际签约体重来命名，比如直接称为“170磅世界冠军赛”，而不是冠以各种莫名其妙的称谓。罗根情绪激动地吐槽道：“这简直蠢透了，‘次中量级’（Welterweight）到底算个什么鬼东西？‘草量级’（Strawweight）又是什么？还有‘原子量级’（Atomweight）？闭嘴吧！‘蝇量级’（Flyweight）也蠢得要命，滚一边去，谁的体重会是一只苍蝇的重量？叫125磅世界冠军不就得了。” 两人随后调侃起拳击等赛事中的“迷你量级”（Minimumweight / 最轻量级）。斯特林大笑表示自己在此之前甚至不知道还有这个级别存在，直言“没有人会想被称为迷你量级，我宁可当个胖子去打重量级”。不过罗根随即指出，虽然名字听起来滑稽，但像在 ONE 冠军赛（ONE Championship）站立踢拳部门的女子原子量级比赛中，那些身材极小的选手的表现堪称惊人。她们的出拳速度和移动快到仿佛在“扭曲时间和空间”，不仅视觉观赏性极强，技术造诣也高到了不可思议的境界。 ### [01:04:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3858s) 隐藏的野兽：RIZIN、PFL与高加索军团的崛起 话题转向世界各地不为人知却实力恐怖的顶级格斗家。斯特林提到自己在日本 RIZIN 赛事中看到的一场对决，一位此前几乎不被全球大众所熟知的选手对阵帕奇·米克斯（Patchy Mix），整场比赛打得如同开启了“黑客帝国”（The Matrix）模式。斯特林惊叹于那名选手将米克斯的站立破绽完全剥离并痛击，“我当时就想，这家伙一直躲在日本闷声发大财，全世界居然没人知道他是谁？这人简直是个不折不扣的野兽！” 罗根深表认同，并指出如今全球格斗界潜伏着大量这种“无名杀手”，尤其是来自高加索和达吉斯坦地区的选手。罗根特别提到了在 PFL 征战的马戈梅多夫（Magomedov），其站立风格与达吉斯坦最顶尖的泰拳高手阿萨杜拉·伊曼加扎利耶夫（Asadula Imangazaliev）如出一辙，极为凶悍。斯特林补充说，自己所在的团队里也有一位来自高加索奥塞梯地区的狠角色莱冯（Levon），同样是站立技术顶尖的刺客。罗根感慨道，如今世界上拥有世界冠军水准潜力的选手数量达到了历史顶峰，这也带来了一个现实警示：走在大街上绝对不要随便挑衅陌生人，“千万别嘴贱，因为你根本不知道眼前那个名不见经传的普通人会不会是一个能把你打烂的顶尖杀手，老老实实做个友善的人就好”。 - 全球范围内具备世界冠军实力却缺乏国际知名度的选手数量呈爆发式增长。 - 综合格斗版图已不仅限于北美主流视野，RIZIN、ONE 冠军赛以及 PFL 汇聚了大量来自高加索和亚洲的技术怪兽。 ### [01:06:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=3993s) 距离掌控、顶尖缠斗与对抗“巨熊”的试金石 罗根将话题引向接下来的焦点对决——伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）与伊恩·马查多·加里（Ian Machado Garry）的潜在碰面与风格碰撞。罗根与斯特林分析了加里的技术特征：加里拥有极为显著的身高与臂展优势，对于距离控制炉火纯青。斯特林透露，加里平时的日常体重并不大，赛前减重大概只有10磅左右，正是因为不用极端脱水，他才能在赛场上保持极佳的体能储备、速度与竞技活力。斯特林认为，尽管马哈切夫技术非常全面，但面对加里这样身材修长、移动迅速的站立高手，单纯在站立层面硬拼绝非胜负手，马哈切夫的核心路径依然是压缩空间并将其拖入地面。 提到马哈切夫顶级的地面缠斗体系，斯特林坦言马哈切夫的地面压制与控制目前正处于整个 MMA“食物链的顶端”。这勾起了斯特林强烈的武者求知欲，他一直极度渴望能亲自和这批达吉斯坦摔跤手滚上一局垫子。他回忆起当年队友“地产哥”艾尔·亚昆塔（Al Iaquinta）临时顶包对阵哈比布·努尔马戈梅多夫（Khabib Nurmagomedov）的往事：在那场比赛中，亚昆塔是极少数在被哈比布按倒后能够多次依靠防守和意志强行逃脱地面的选手。赛后亚昆塔曾对斯特林说：“我觉得你去和哈比布缠斗其实能打得很好。”斯特林当时笑着骂他：“兄弟，你这是想让那只达吉斯坦棕熊弄死我啊！” 斯特林强调，想去和他们切磋完全不是出于个人自负或虚荣心，纯粹是想亲身丈量一下彼此的力量、身位转换意识（Grappling IQ）究竟处于什么水平。他平时就经常越级和大级别的克里斯·韦德曼（Chris Weidman）缠斗，甚至常常感叹如果自己和韦德曼同量级，对方绝对会是他最理想的日常主力实战搭档。 ### [01:09:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=4145s) 梅拉布带来的神经系统风暴与有目的性的训练体系 谈到高水平训练伙伴，罗根指出斯特林能拥有梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）作为长期队友是一项无与伦比的巨大优势。斯特林对此完全赞同，直言梅拉布在垫子上带来的强度是外界完全无法复制的。许多外人看梅拉布比赛时，总觉得他动作杂乱无章、缺乏章法，甚至会质疑“这家伙到底擅长什么”；但只要你亲自跨进八角笼跟他站在一起，感受就会截然不同。梅拉布制造的不是常规的技术对抗，而是一场席卷全身的“混乱风暴”，他的无限体能、持续假动作和无休止的移动在不停地轰炸对手的中枢神经系统。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 梅拉布式神经系统消耗战机制 accDescr: 展示梅拉布如何通过高频假动作与体能压迫导致对手反应衰退并最终露出破绽的逻辑链条 subgraph Phase1 ["比赛初期：充沛期"] A["高频假动作与持续移动压迫"] --> B["对手神经系统高度紧绷"] B --> C["快肌纤维迅速响应，防住早期进攻"] end subgraph Phase2 ["比赛中后期：衰退期"] C --> D["持续承受高压警报，神经传导疲劳"] D --> E["反应时间显著变慢，动作出现迟滞"] end subgraph Phase3 ["战术收割"] E --> F["原本无法命中的打击与抱摔全面突破防线"] end ``` 斯特林援引乔治·圣皮埃尔（GSP）和名帅费拉斯·扎哈比（Firas Zahabi）的经典理论解释道：在比赛初期，选手的快肌纤维反应极其敏锐，能应对一切风吹草动；但如果一方不断用假动作强迫你的神经系统做出应激反馈，随着时间推移，神经中枢就会疲劳，反应时间随之拉长。原本在第一回合根本打不中的动作，到了后半程就会频频命中。费拉斯的这种战略思维建立在精密的人体生理机制和心理博弈之上，绝非盲目碰运气。 斯特林随后将这种系统化理念延伸到了拳馆教学中。在塞拉-隆戈拳馆（Serra-Longo）带课期间，他极力纠正许多拳手“盲目训练”的恶习。他坚持认为，走进拳馆的每一节课都必须带着清晰的目标与使命（Intent）： - 不能仅仅为了“今天我练过了”而白白浪费一个半小时的对练时间； - 备战选手进场时，整堂训练课必须围绕具体对手的技术风格设立针对性情境模拟； - 陪练伙伴的职责是给备战者提供贴合实战的假想敌姿态，而不是自私地在实战中逞凶斗狠、试图在垫子上击杀队友。 ### [01:11:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=4293s) 实战训练中的“引导式探索”与摔跤防守体系化 阿尔加麦恩·斯特林与乔·罗根深入探讨了拳馆实战（Sparring）的真正意义。斯特林强调，对待实战搭档必须心怀感激与分寸，绝不能在馆里痛下狠手，否则根本没人愿意继续陪你对练。搭档是在帮你磨砺技术，你必须依靠他们才能将打靶和一对一分解练习的动作转化到真实对抗中。因此，在综合实战时，理智的做法是将对抗强度从 100% 降到大约 70%，在可控的高拟真节奏下实时解决问题。斯特林分享道，这种方法源于他在纽约州立大学科特兰分校（SUNY Cortland）攻读体育教育专业时学到的教学理论——“引导式探索”（Guided Discovery）。 为了生动诠释这一理念，斯特林以摔跤中的高位外侧下潜（High Crotch）为例进行了拆解。当进攻方抓握三头肌或推击借力、头部置于外侧并双手合锁发起完美抱腿时，防守者面对这种强力体态不应只靠慌乱的本能做出孤立动作，而是要建立清晰的系统性防御分支：究竟是将对手的头部推向内侧强行压低破坏其体态，还是顺着其头部朝外的位置继续向外推并迅速切外角（Cut the corner）脱困？又或者是借助过胸抱（Whizzer）或卡住髋部配合转髋化解？如果被对手强行拉倒在垫子上，后续的连续反制动作又是什么？斯特林指出，单纯依赖本能虽好，但顶尖拳手必须通过反复演练，将科学的应对链条打磨成潜意识层面的“本能习惯”，清楚知道对手在每一种受力变化下的逃脱与反制路径。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 高位抱腿防守决策链 accDescr: 展示斯特林在引导式探索教学中拆解的高位抱腿防守分支与后续反制流程 subgraph Attack["对手进攻"] A["对手发动高位外侧抱腿<br/>(High Crotch)"] end subgraph Defense["防守选项链条"] A --> B{"防守者决策分支"} B --> C["压头推向内侧<br/>破坏挺胸体态"] B --> D["顺势向外推头<br/>抢角度切外角脱困"] B --> E["使用过胸抱/卡胯<br/>并迅速转髋卸力"] end subgraph Transition["落地衍生反击"] C --> F["维持站立或重构空间"] D --> F E --> G{"若被拖入地面垫面"} G --> H["手掌撑地迅速撑起高度"] H --> I["反攻下肢 / 穿裆全美式摔法压制"] end ``` ### [01:13:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=4402s) 提升队友以反哺自身：跳出“为了训练而训练”的盲目循环 斯特林直言，很多格斗选手其实根本没有接受过这种系统化的思维训练。他们在实战中往往只是胡乱挥拳，或者机械地把打靶时练的固定组合拳套在对抗中，却完全忽略了距离与空间的构建。真正的站立高手会通过虚晃试探（Feints）把对手逼向笼边，利用八角笼切角处收窄的空间挤压对手的移动范围，在封死退路后才启动打击组合。如果不假思索地盲目出招，对手只要做一个虚晃垫步（Juke step）换向跑掉，你的整套攻势就会彻底落空。这些战术推演本应在日常训练中反复推敲摸索，而不是到了八角笼里才临场碰运气。 这也是斯特林早期在拳馆主动开课教学的核心原因。当时他可以随心所欲地把队里的搭档摔倒在地，完全遇不到任何阻力。但他很快意识到：“我很强，但我到底有多强？这些人只是因为缺乏相关技术信息才防不住我。”于是，他决定倾囊相授，把队友们的水准全部带上一个新台阶。当队友学会了如何用过胸抱打破他的体态、让他双膝着地拉长身位时，斯特林自己也被逼入险境，必须逼迫自己开发出手臂支撑找回身体高度、变向变线反攻双腿、或是采用全美式（All-American）/伊朗式反抱摔等高阶破局方案。斯特林感慨，当今综合格斗界依旧有太多人只是在“为了训练而训练”，而真正拉开差距的，是对时机的极致洞察——当两人掌握同一项技术时，能更快一步做出预判和反应的人，才能在九成以上的对抗中立于不败之地。 - 斯特林坦言，将队友提升为强大假想敌是倒逼自身进化的最佳手段：“如果不把他们提升上来，我就无法取得真正的突破。” - 罗根幽默追问斯特林在倾囊相授时是否会有所保留，斯特林打趣回答“没全教，留了一手”，引得两人相视大笑。 ### [01:15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=4529s) 现代 MMA 的进化风暴与新秀的技术壁垒 罗根表示，这种逼迫自己直面新难题的态度，正是“世界冠军思维”与普通能打选手的本质区别。赛场上有太多选手习惯像攻城锤一样直勾勾撞向对手，彼此近身抡大摆拳互殴，靠着下巴坚硬和重拳运气分胜负，虽然这类首回合血战极具观赏性，但这绝非这项运动的终极形态。真正登上巅峰的精英，是那些能通过步法游走、频繁切换架势、用诡谲莫测的动作超载对手神经系统，同时自己毫发无伤的格斗艺术家。 两人随后谈到来自高加索、达吉斯坦等地区的顶尖格斗新势力，一致认为当今高水平 MMA 已经容不下任何技术短板。靠着蛮力往前冲抡摆拳的打法，在地方赛事或打打低水平实战搭档或许管用，但面对当下的顶级掠食者瞬间就会被精准肢解。罗根回顾了综合格斗这项运动惊人的进化迭代速度：回看 2005 年的《终极斗士》（The Ultimate Fighter）第一季，距今不过二十年左右，如果是传统拳击，2005 年的顶尖世界拳王与 2026 年的拳王技术体系差别并不算天翻地覆；然而在 MMA 领域，当年的技术水平与如今相比简直是“天壤之别”（Night and day）。现在即便只是从“白大拿挑战者系列赛”（DWCS）走出来的年轻新秀，身上展现出的战术成熟度都足以让老一代选手相形见绌。 ### [01:17:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=4661s) 站立惊艳与深水考验：首回合之后的回调与战术应对 两人随即聊到了雏量级近期涌现出的惊艳新秀（如战绩耀眼、被寄予厚望的年轻潜力股）。罗根惊叹于这些新人仿佛《黑客帝国》（Matrix）般丝滑流畅的打击风格——智能的假动作、细腻的步法调动以及对局势从容不迫的掌控力，连克不败对手，展现出了远超十五年前世界冠军级别的技战术水准，让人感慨这项运动更新换代的速度近乎疯狂。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 比赛深水区检验机制 accDescr: 展现从首回合高爆发惊艳表现到深水区体能与战术储备的演进考量 subgraph Round1["第一回合：火力全开"] R1["所有人均极具危险性<br/>站立打击华丽丝滑"] end subgraph DeepWater["第二/三回合：深水区考验"] D1["遭遇连续抱摔压制"] --> D2["乳酸严重堆积/体能衰减"] D2 --> D3{"是否具备备用防御体系？"} end subgraph Outcome["战局回调"] D3 -- 缺乏储备 --> O1["动作变形 / 惨遭逆转"] D3 -- 储备深厚 --> O2["扭转势头 / 重掌主动权"] end Round1 --> DeepWater ``` 然而，斯特林站在前冠军的严苛视角指出了更为深刻的实战维度：从站立打击来看，许多新秀确实无可挑剔、天赋异禀，但在高水平对决中，真正的考验往往始于首回合之后。当比赛进入第二、第三回合的深水区，如果遭遇了高强度的抱摔与缠斗压迫，面对严重的乳酸堆积与体能消耗，这名选手是否还能维持原有的效率和杀伤力？斯特林直言，在第一回合里每个人都身手矫健、极具威胁，但在制定作战计划时，自己更注重的是跨过首回合后的整体战局把控：“如果局势脱离预期、对手打出了几次重击导致我落后挨打，我的后手防御体系到底是什么？我该如何力挽狂澜，把比赛的掌控权重新夺回自己手中？”这才是检验一个惊艳新星能否真正蜕变为冠军的分水岭。 ### [01:19:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=4778s) 康纳对阵霍洛威的设想与跳跃腿法的力学风险 乔·罗根与阿尔加麦恩·斯特林探讨了康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）与麦克斯·霍洛威（Max Holloway）对决的潜在走势。在他们看来，如果康纳无法在比赛初期迅速将霍洛威解决，这几乎是康纳职业生涯中最糟糕的对局风格之一。霍洛威拥有一颗近乎不知疲倦的体能“大心脏”，极度适应五回合的高强度拉锯战，对何时踩油门推进、何时战术性后撤的节奏拿捏得炉火纯青；更可怕的是他那令人窒息的持续施压、脚步环绕移动、虚招晃骗与高超技术。斯特林指出，无论局势如何，霍洛威第四回合的输出强度都绝对和第一回合毫无二致，丝毫不会衰退。 谈话随即转到了起跳腿法的技术危险性。两人分析了在空中踢击落空的严重力学后果：在后场打靶击中实物的感觉，与在比赛中踢空完全是两码事。起跳侧踢尚且属于线性运动，落地相对稳定；但若是起跳做旋转类腿法（如跳跃摆踢或高扫），一旦对手滑步变向，选手在半空中试图强行调整攻击弧度，支撑腿和膝关节在落地扭转时会承受极其恐怖的扭矩，“那简直是在祈求上帝保佑你的膝盖别当场粉碎”。罗根直言，起跳轮转腿法只要踢空，就是对身体摧残最大的自残式动作，除非距离把控极佳且能稳稳命中。 --- ### [01:21:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=4896s) 空手道格斗中的惨烈KO：拉斐尔·阿尔维斯与詹姆斯·维克 罗根提到了极限格斗联盟 Karate Combat 中发生的一起极其骇人的终结场面：巴西名将拉斐尔·阿尔维斯（Rafael Alves）在对阵前 UFC 名将詹姆斯·维克（James Vick）时，使出了一记犹如神来之笔的跳跃变线扫踢（jumping switch kick）。阿尔维斯腾空而起，右腿看似虚点，紧接着左腿小腿胫骨如战斧般精准、清脆地横扫过维克的下巴。慢镜头显示，维克直挺挺倒地，后脑重重砸在擂台上。阿尔维斯击倒对手后先是挑衅般地指着对方，但在意识到对手已经失去意识后立刻双手合十跪地祈祷。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Karate Combat 终结与受创流程 accDescr: 展示拉斐尔·阿尔维斯通过跳跃变线踢KO詹姆斯·维克并导致重伤的过程 subgraph Strike["终结技战术"] A["腾空跃起"] --> B["右腿假动作触碰虚晃"] B --> C["左腿胫骨精准扫击下巴"] end subgraph Impact["严重创伤后果"] C --> D["瞬间失去意识僵直倒地"] D --> E["后脑剧烈撞击擂台垫面"] E --> F["送医进入重症监护室 (ICU)"] end ``` 罗根感叹，37岁的维克身高臂长且技术过硬，但职业生涯经历了太多惨烈的硬仗与脑震荡。那记跳跃踢击所蕴含的爆发力，哪怕换在维克的巅峰期也足以瞬间将其击昏。据透露，维克在赛后被送入重症监护室（ICU）抢救并住院了相当长一段时间。罗根与斯特林严肃地表示，格斗从来不是一项能“闹着玩”的运动，历史上很多拳手一旦遭遇毁灭性KO，就再也无法重返往日的竞技状态，最典型的例子莫过于埃德森·巴博萨（Edson Barboza）用那记载入史册的转身后摆腿彻底终结了特里·埃蒂姆（Terry Etim）的争冠之路。 - **詹姆斯·维克当前年龄**：37岁。 - **Karate Combat 赛场惨剧**：维克遭阿尔维斯跳跃变线踢击昏，伴随严重的后脑着地撞击，赛后在重症监护病房救治了很长一段时间。 - **历史经典参考**：埃德森·巴博萨对特里·埃蒂姆的转身后摆腿 KO，直接改写了后者的职业生涯轨迹。 --- ### [01:24:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5066s) 斯特林回忆被莫拉伊斯KO后的心理阴影与经济困境 看到格斗场上的惨状，斯特林深有感触地回想起自己在2017年12月9日被马龙·莫拉伊斯（Marlon Moraes）迎面飞膝残暴 KO 的至暗时刻。在那场重创之后，斯特林陷入了前所未有的恐慌与自我怀疑。他拥有正规的体育教育学学位，原本完全可以选择一份安稳的体育教师工作，享受带薪暑假、养老金和全套医疗保险；然而为了追逐疯狂的格斗冠军梦，他压上了身体健康的赌注。躺在伤痛中的他甚至暗下决心：“我就再打最后一场，成败听天由命。如果再被KO，我就彻底退役认命，感恩过往的一切。” 整整三个月的时间里，斯特林不敢进行任何头部实战对练（sparring）。但现实的经济压力如影随形——他生活在物价高昂的纽约长岛，只能一边兼职代课老师，一边担任摔跤教练赚取微薄收入。为了下一份迫切需要的出场费支票，斯特林在遭遇严重脑震荡仅仅四个月后，就签下了对阵当时保持全胜战绩（UFC 3胜0负）、刚刚用30秒小腿切绞杀乔·索托（Joe Soto）的布雷特·约翰斯（Brett Johns）。备战的最后三四周，他只能嘱咐实战搭档们点到为止，自己则完全依靠抱摔、移动和体能防守来规避再次伤到大脑的风险，最终艰难涉险过关。 - **关键战役节点**：2017年12月9日被马龙·莫拉伊斯飞膝击倒，仅间隔约4个月便在2018年4月重返八角笼对决布雷特·约翰斯。 - **第二条退路**：拥有体育教育学学位（Phys Ed degree），随时能转行做体制内的体育老师。 - **生活窘境**：高昂的长岛生活开销迫使拳手在脑损伤未完全恢复的情况下，兼职代课与摔跤教练并迅速接战。 --- ### [01:26:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5214s) 脑震荡后的恢复困境与沃尔卡诺夫斯基的前车之鉴 斯特林从切身经历出发，谈及前羽量级冠军亚历山大·沃尔卡诺夫斯基（Alexander Volkanovski）的职业轨迹。他坦言，当时沃尔卡诺夫斯基在毫无系统训练营准备的情况下，仅凭11天临时替补通知就飞往阿布扎比挑战伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev），本身就是极其疯狂且冒险的举动。在被马哈切夫高扫爆头终结仅仅几个月后，沃尔卡诺夫斯基又马不停蹄地迎战以拳法重击著称的伊利亚·托普利亚（Ilia Topuria）。 罗根对斯特林的观点表示强烈赞同。沃尔卡诺夫斯基在对阵托普利亚的首回合依然展现出了顶级的竞技水准，但一旦被逼入铁笼黑线附近的致命死角，托普利亚那迅猛连贯的组合拳瞬间就会将其“彻底关灯”。罗根强调，无论一名拳手的意志有多坚不可摧，人体本质上都是一台精密而脆弱的机器；零件坏了需要停机大修，脑部受到震荡更是格斗运动中最无法预测的“未知数”。它不像汽车换个化油器就能立刻上路轰油门，每个人的神经受损与恢复阈值截然不同，缺乏足够的静养时间无异于职业自杀。 ### [01:28:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5287s) 下巴的耐打度与传奇名场面：从查克·里德尔到“狂暴”杰克逊 阿尔加麦恩·斯特林与乔·罗根探讨了选手的抗击打能力（下巴硬度）究竟从何而来。斯特林推测，这或许与一个人的成长经历息息相关——比如小时候脑袋是否受过磕碰、高中打美式橄榄球时是否遭遇过脑震荡，或者年轻时跟朋友胡闹挨过揍，导致长大进入职业格斗后才猛然发现自己根本吃不住重击。两人谈到迪戈·洛佩斯（Diego Lopes）那花岗岩般坚硬的下巴，罗根感叹洛佩斯仿佛怎么打都打不倒，但他也提醒道，无论下巴多硬，只要持续承受打击，总有一天耐打度会彻底耗尽。 这让两人联想到了当年的“冰人”查克·里德尔（Chuck Liddell）。早期的里德尔仿佛刀枪不入，咬紧牙套迎着对手的重拳往前冲，在硬吃击打的同时凭借毁灭性的反击将对手击倒，凭借对自己下巴的绝对自信把比赛拖入混乱的大乱斗。然而好运终有尽头，当他的抗击打极限被打破后，哪怕是里奇·富兰克林（Rich Franklin）用那只刚被踢骨折的左手打出的拳头，都能瞬间将他击晕。斯特林指出，昆顿·“狂暴”·杰克逊（Quinton "Rampage" Jackson）对里德尔的那场残暴KO，基本上就是里德尔统治期与硬下巴彻底终结的转折点。 斯特林调侃自己一直梦想成为一个“迷你版狂暴杰克逊”，戴着大铁链像狼一样嚎叫入场，可惜自己并没有杰克逊那种一拳将人打入虚无的爆炸性力量。罗根称赞杰克逊当年在Pride全员滥用违禁药物的狂野时代，全凭纯天然身体素质对抗各路“药人”。谈到杰克逊的传世名场面，两人一致认为他在Pride中破解里卡多·阿罗纳（Ricardo Arona）三角绞的那记高空砸摔（Slam KO），是综合格斗史上最疯狂的KO，直接导致阿罗纳自那之后职业生涯彻底偏离了巅峰。 - **查克·里德尔的下巴衰退**：早期依靠强悍的下巴打乱战称霸轻重量级，但在被“狂暴”杰克逊KO后耐打度急剧下滑，随后遭遇了被里奇·富兰克林带伤左手直接KO的名场面。 - **狂暴杰克逊的标志性风格**：标志性的狼嚎入场与粗重铁链装束；在Pride纯自然对抗高强度竞争对手；对阵阿罗纳时将其像枕头一样举过头顶砸晕的传奇砸摔。 --- ### [01:30:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5413s) 触目惊心的头骨凹陷：MVP飞膝与泰拳赛场的恐怖肘击 话题随后转向格斗擂台上那些令人胆寒的骨骼损伤。罗根提到了迈克尔·“毒液”·佩奇（Michael "Venom" Page, MVP）在Bellator用一记飞膝顶碎埃文吉利斯塔·“机械战警”·桑托斯（Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos）额骨的惊悚画面。那一击不仅当场终结了比赛，更是直接将桑托斯的头骨顶出了一个巨大的凹坑。斯特林打趣道，这种伤势简直像是需要用拔罐器或皮揣子把凹陷吸出来一样，实际上医生必须切开皮肤植入大量金属钢板与螺丝来重建头颅结构。脑组织在受到这种剧烈变形与挤压后受创极深，尽管桑托斯赛后宣称自己还会重返赛场，但所有人都心知肚明他的顶尖生涯已经彻底终结。 罗根表示自己最近还在网上看到了一场泰拳比赛，其中一名拳手被一记近身肘击正面劈中额头，眉心上方瞬间出现了一个恐怖的深坑。场上裁判立刻叫停了比赛并示意医务人员介入。当时挨打的选手甚至还在疑惑裁判为何喊停，裁判只能用表情告诉他：“兄弟，你根本不知道你现在伤成什么样，你的脑袋已经凹进去了！”两人感叹，在如此高强度的对抗中，这类严重的头骨粉碎性骨折发生频率其实并不高，但每一次发生都足以震撼整个格斗界。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Head Trauma and Facial Bone Injuries accDescr: Extreme striking impacts leading to skull reconstruction surgery and career halts. subgraph Impact["重击打击形式"] A["MVP 飞膝撞击"] B["泰拳近身内围肘击"] end subgraph Trauma["骨骼与颅脑损伤"] C["前额骨粉碎性塌陷凹坑"] D["颅脑剧烈震荡与压迫"] end subgraph Medical["医疗救治与后果"] E["裁判强制终止比赛"] F["金属接骨板与螺丝重建头骨"] G["职业竞技生涯实质性终结"] end A --> C B --> C C --> D C --> E E --> F F --> G ``` --- ### [01:32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5520s) 站立大神的内围肘击与无护具骨骼的杀伤力 罗根与斯特林将话题转到站立高手的肘法运用上，并称赞了拥有世界泰拳冠军头衔的俄罗斯选手在白大拿挑战者系列赛（DWCS）中的亮眼表现。那位被昵称为“Chonko”（因其出生成长的小镇而得名）的选手展现了出神入化的近身内围肘击技术。罗根分析道，这代表了格斗界一种非常有趣的进化路径：选手本身具备顶尖纯泰拳站立功底，随后进入达吉斯坦与哈比卜（Khabib）、伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）等顶尖摔跤手共同训练，补齐地面防摔短板，从而在比赛中发挥出极其恐怖的站立杀伤力。 斯特林坦言，近身缠斗中的肘击极其凶狠，自己在八角笼里绝对不会让擅长肘击的人轻易贴近：“我可不想被打成那个鬼样子，我以后还打算继续搞演艺事业、做很多别的事情呢！”罗根幽默地指出综合格斗规则中一个略显讽刺的现实：官方拳套的作用主要是保护出拳者的手指关节和拳头，但对于杀伤力更致命的手肘、膝盖和胫骨，选手们却是在完全没有任何护垫包裹的情况下直接肉搏互撞。 - **站立选手的达吉斯坦进化**：顶尖纯打击系选手通过吸收达吉斯坦战队的摔跤与控制体系，形成防摔扎实、内围毁灭力极强的复合风格。 - **护具的悖论**：手部拳套在很大程度上是防止打拳者手骨骨折，而硬度更高的肘尖与膝盖骨却毫无缓冲，反而容易造成更可怕的骨折与深度开裂。 --- ### [01:33:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5633s) 职业生涯规划、UFC高层关系与羽量级对阵僵局 罗根询问斯特林现阶段的规划，指出他如今已经年近37岁，必须认真思考还能在这项严酷的运动中打多久。斯特林回应称自己目前采取“打一场看一场”的态度，内心非常希望能够在UFC退役，但格斗行业变数太多，未来谁也说不准。他坦承自己有时会因为过于直率而惹怒UFC高层。媒体经常会故意向他抛出诸如选手薪酬等尖锐问题，因为记者知道斯特林从不打官腔，总能提供博取点击的争议性发言。斯特林无奈地表示，肖恩·斯特里克兰（Sean Strickland）也经常大谈选手待遇，但外界往往将斯特里克兰视为“疯癫人设”而一笑置之，反倒是自己的言论会招致更严苛的审视。 话题随后切入羽量级（145磅）目前的对阵局势。罗根提到亚历山大·沃尔卡诺夫斯基（Alexander Volkanovski）即将对阵莫夫萨尔·埃夫洛耶夫（Movsar Evloev），埃夫洛耶夫为了这场冠军挑战权已经等待了太久。斯特林坦言，目前量级内几乎所有排名前列的选手都已有赛程安排，自己很难找到明确的对手。虽然勒隆·墨菲（Lerone Murphy）原本是一个潜在人选，但斯特林收到消息称墨菲因伤将休养数月，导致他目前的约战陷入了短期的僵局。 - **媒体与选手薪酬争议**：斯特林认为综合格斗媒体擅长利用选手的直率来制造关于选手薪酬的耸动头条，而他在该议题上的言论往往比其他选手承受了更多来自管理层的审视。 - **羽量级排位现状**：沃尔卡诺夫斯基与埃夫洛耶夫的冠军争夺已定，前列选手大多已敲定对局，加上勒隆·墨菲因伤缺阵，使得斯特林在量级内的下一步匹配面临人选紧缺。 ### [01:36:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5780s) 莫夫萨尔的技术选择与摔跤打法的争议 二人就莫夫萨尔·埃夫洛耶夫（Movsar Evloev）的比赛打法与计分展开了热烈讨论。回顾当时的比赛，尽管存在因为击裆等犯规扣分的情况，裁判依然给出了判决，甚至有人认为原本应该判定为平局，但裁判最终把四个回合判给了莫夫萨尔。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出比赛其实非常胶着，莫夫萨尔直到第三回合末段才真正开启摔跤，这也证明他只要想摔，随时都能将对手放倒。斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）分析道，莫夫萨尔是故意想展示自己的站立打击技巧，因为他确实具备站立能力，但这反而引发了观众的争议——过晚使用摔跤让前两个回合的站立对攻显得节奏平缓、互不冒险。 罗根认为莫夫萨尔不得不证明自己打得并不沉闷，以此来争取冠军战门票；而这种站立试探实际上形成了微妙的心理战，让对手防备抱摔的同时暴露出站立空当。但罗根同时也提出疑问：当一名选手在缠斗方面拥有压倒性优势时，为什么还要冒险去拼站立搏击？针对大众对缠斗选手的苛责，罗根提到了梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）战胜“蜜糖”肖恩·奥马利（Sean O'Malley）的比赛。当时不少拳迷抱怨比赛沉闷乏味，但罗根对此嗤之以鼻：“这就是综合格斗。如果梅拉布能够连续五个回合把你摔倒、在地面压制你，而你毫无办法最终输掉腰带，这就是比赛的现实。”不能因为防不住压制就指责胜利者打法无聊，解决问题的责任全在对手身上。 - 莫夫萨尔直到比赛后半段才全面发动摔跤，虽然展现了站立博弈，却引发了大众对于比赛节奏的争论。 - 罗根批评部分拳迷的双重标准：综合格斗本质是风格克制，不能因为选手利用摔跤压制对手就将其贬为“无聊”。 --- ### [01:38:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=5893s) 风格克制、冠军光环与职业选手的带伤常态 斯特林将这种风格对决延伸到了 MMA 历史上的多场经典之战。不管是伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）还是曾经的康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）对决哈比卜·努尔马戈梅多夫（Khabib Nurmagomedov），故事的核心永远是“站立打击大师能否战胜最顶尖的压制型摔跤手”。康纳在 UFC 的连胜道路上曾避开很多顶级摔跤手，而面对历史上顶体位和缠抱压制能力数一数二的小鹰时，悬念就在于他能否打出那记逆天一拳。拳迷买单是为了看势均力敌的战术碰撞，而不是一边倒的屠杀，如果选手在面对一台摔跤机器时无法命中重拳，就不能怪这项运动不精彩。 谈到奥马利在比赛中的表现，罗根提及奥马利当时饱受髋部撕裂伤势困扰，可能本不该登台；但斯特林直言所有格斗选手几乎都是带伤出战。斯特林回忆自己当年面对奥马利时同样处于肋骨骨折等严重伤病之中，甚至在身体状态上比奥马利当时更糟糕。当梅拉布在二番战中带着冠军级别的自信出战时，表现更是实现了全方位的升级。斯特林提到自己与医疗康复机构（Wayell）交流时的感受：普通人很难想象顶级格斗选手身上累积了多少伤病，两人的 MRI 检查单能列出一长串，很多伤痛甚至持续了两年以上，但在八角笼里谁都不可能处于百分之百的健康状态。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 顶级对决中风格与心理的博弈流程 accDescr: 展示站立打击系选手遭遇顶尖摔跤手压制时的战术与心理演变 subgraph Matchup ["风格碰撞与核心悬念"] A["高水平打击大师<br/>（寻求精准一击终结）"] B["顶尖摔跤/缠斗机器<br/>（持续压制与消耗）"] end subgraph Reality ["八角笼现实与不可抗因素"] C["身体隐患与旧伤累积<br/>（髋部撕裂/肋骨损伤）"] D["冠军级心态与自信升级<br/>（压制力与统治力跃升）"] end subgraph Outcome ["最终局势"] E["战术破局失败<br/>丧失空间与控制权"] F["判定或地面终结获胜"] end A --> Matchup B --> Matchup Matchup --> C Matchup --> D C --> E D --> F ``` - 格斗界顶尖对决的魅力在于“打击能否突破缠斗机器”，选手无法破解压制并不能成为指责对手消极的借口。 - 无论奥马利还是斯特林自己，赛前都面临过严重的韧带撕裂或骨折问题，带伤作战是所有职业 MMA 选手的家常便饭。 - 亚历克斯·佩雷拉（Alex Pereira）在一番战击败伊日·普罗哈兹卡（Jiří Procházka）时膝盖严重受伤，终结对手后由于膝盖无法承重，只能顺势从对手身上翻滚落地。 --- ### [01:40:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6037s) 轻重量级的冷酷终结者与老将的传奇道路 话题随后转向轻重量级赛场的戏剧性场面。罗根与斯特林提到了普罗哈兹卡在八角笼内的激进风格，这种“疯狂”既成就了他在某些比赛中的不可思议表现，也让他在面对佩雷拉时犯下了致命错误。佩雷拉当时右腿已经彻底报废，唯一能够威胁对手的武器就剩下招牌的夺命左勾拳，但普罗哈兹卡依然以极具风险的姿态压上，被佩雷拉利用前手标尺测距后、一个精准的角度变换配合滑步左勾拳直接带走。两人都为普罗哈兹卡感到可惜，因为在那种绝境下，他偏偏撞上了对手唯一的、也是最具毁灭性的杀招。 接着，两人谈到了同训练营的纳瓦霍·斯特林（Navajo Stirling）以及击败前冠军扬·布拉霍维奇（Jan Błachowicz）的表现。布拉霍维奇拥有轻重量级公认的“铁下巴”，能将其击倒甚至终结充分展现了新一代选手的恐怖爆发力与远距离突进能力。虽然布拉霍维奇如今已经43岁，但斯特林和罗根都认为年龄在某些大器晚成的硬汉身上并不是绝对借口——格洛弗·特谢拉（Glover Teixeira）当年夺得世界冠军时也已经42岁。罗根回忆道，特谢拉在进入 UFC 之前曾因签证问题被困在巴西长达六年，但那六年里他早已是业界公认的隐形恐怖大魔王；而像佩雷拉这样起步极晚、进入 UFC 后以火箭般速度统治多级别的奇迹更是罕见。 - 普罗哈兹卡的极端进攻风格是一把双刃剑，盲目压上直接撞进了佩雷拉仅存但最致命的左勾拳射程内。 - 纳瓦霍·斯特林击倒以抗击打坚挺著称的布拉霍维奇，展现了惊人的突进距离与重击杀伤力。 - 特谢拉在42岁登顶轻重量级，证明高龄老将在重击级别依然具备创造奇迹的可能。 --- ### [01:43:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6186s) 西里尔·盖恩的重量级跳步与被低估的硬实力 最后，罗根将焦点转向了重量级前临时冠军西里尔·盖恩（Ciryl Gane）。盖恩展现出的移动能力令两人赞叹不已，罗根直言在重量级几乎找不出第二个能像盖恩一样移动的巨人。斯特林指出，盖恩早年打过篮球，这种运动背景赋予了他截然不同的肌肉爆发力与敏捷神经，能够像后卫一样做出大幅度的假动作、变向变速和闪避，犹如在八角笼里打巨人体能增强训练（Plyometrics）。 除了偶有出现的插眼犯规外，盖恩在距离控制上的造诣极高，甚至堪称 UFC 重量级历史上被有效击中次数最少的高手之一。即便面对泰·图瓦萨（Tai Tuivasa）乃至弗朗西斯·纳干诺（Francis Ngannou）这类毁灭级重炮手，盖恩在站立阶段也几乎从未受到真正的毁灭性重创。斯特林和罗根一致认为，盖恩在对阵乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）时被迅速降服的惨败，让外界严重低估了他的真正实力。但这并不能说明盖恩平庸，而仅仅是因为琼斯的缠斗统治力过于恐怖——在八角笼里，只要脖子被琼斯扣住，任何人都没有生还的可能。 - 盖恩凭借篮球运动员级别的快速抽搐肌纤维（Quick-twitch muscles）与敏捷步法，打破了传统重量级笨重的刻板印象。 - 面对纳干诺和图瓦萨等危险重炮手，盖恩几乎从未在站立对攻中吃到过干净的重击。 - 败给乔恩·琼斯的闪击降服导致舆论对盖恩产生低估，但这更多是琼斯作为史上最强格斗家的压制力体现，而非盖恩本身水平不足。 ### [01:44:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6261s) 西里尔·盖恩的站立奇技与对佩雷拉的风格克制 乔·罗根与阿尔加麦恩·斯特林由衷赞叹了乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）在回归战中的惊人表现——在首回合就迅速将西里尔·盖恩（Ciryl Gane）拖入地面并以断头台降服取胜。然而两人一致认为，在进入地面之前，任何选手都必须先面对盖恩在站立状态下那令人窒息的速度与移动能力。琼斯破解了这个难题，而盖恩在此战后也意识到摔跤防守是自己的致命短板，特意引进了大批重磅摔跤手进行针对性补强。在纯泰拳和踢拳领域，盖恩是重量级极其罕见的怪物，他的站立风格与常规大级别选手截然不同。罗根特别解析了盖恩那记标志性的侧身前腿拧身踢（twisting front kick）：盖恩习惯以类似侧身（bladed）的站位拉开距离，这种姿态赋予了他极强的灵活性与柔韧度，能直接从前腿起脚，以跆拳道中“拧踢”的方式用脚前掌狠辣地刺击对手躯干，既隐蔽又刁钻。 随后两人聊到了盖恩与亚历克斯·佩雷拉（Alex Pereira）的交锋。盖恩不仅拥有鬼魅般的移动，更能抓准对手冒进的瞬间施以迎击，当时他就是以一记势大力沉的右手刺拳精准重创了佩雷拉。斯特林还冷不丁爆出一段笑料，调侃佩雷拉那场比赛增重后身材过于夸张，硕大的臀部在屏幕前晃动得让他完全无法专心看比赛：“兄弟，那大屁股把我的屏幕视线全给挡住了，赶紧转过去！”罗根则从战术层面指出，盖恩对升入重量级的佩雷拉而言堪称“最糟糕的风格噩梦”。佩雷拉原本是中量级骨架，强行增重到250磅，而盖恩则是天生248磅的自然大体格，不仅体格更大，脚下移动反而比佩雷拉更轻盈敏捷，同时还具备世界冠军级别的打击水平。佩雷拉的站位相对偏死，无法追上盖恩的步伐去倾泻标志性的低扫与“Chama”左勾拳，即使双方打二番战，佩雷拉也很难在风格劣势下找到破局之法。 - 盖恩的站位与踢法：侧身站位，无需换步即可直接用前腿打出跆拳道式的拧身蹬腹（Twisting front kick），具有极高的隐蔽性与速度。 - 佩雷拉的升重劣势：从中量级（185磅）跨越到重量级（250磅），属于后天挂肉；面对原本就在248磅且具备轻量级移动速度的盖恩，在移动追击与迎击防守上全面落入下风。 ### [01:47:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6460s) 阿斯皮纳尔插眼争议与眼部重创带来的心理阴影 话题转到了汤姆·阿斯皮纳尔（Tom Aspinall）那场因严重插眼犯规而遗憾终止的比赛。斯特林提到自己赛后在网络上承受了不少指责，部分拳迷认为他曾经也因被违规膝击而饱受争议，理应无条件站在阿斯皮纳尔一边。斯特林澄清道，他并非不支持阿斯皮纳尔，而是坚持认为“只有当事人自己才知道伤得有多重”；尽管不少选手在被插眼后仍选择硬撑继续比赛，但并非所有插眼伤害都是同等程度的，阿斯皮纳尔当时遭遇的是类似“活宝三人组”（Three Stooges）式的粗暴深抠，伤情极其恐怖。罗根则态度坚决地表示，阿斯皮纳尔放弃比赛是100%正确的决定，在单眼失明的情况下继续面对重量级重炮手是自寻死路——视野缺失会导致拳手完全无法察觉侧面飞来的摆拳与高扫，稍有不慎就会被直接打晕甚至造成永久性残疾。 罗根对MMA现行的插眼处罚尺度表达了强烈不满，他主张裁判必须采取零容忍态度：“只要有人的手指碰到对手的眼睛，就必须直接扣除一分！每一次都扣，这样才能彻底杜绝这种下作动作。”两人随后谈到眼部重创对选手的心理折磨：阿斯皮纳尔为此接受了两次眼科手术，这与脑震荡带来的PTSD完全不同。罗根用斯特林当年被马龙·莫拉斯（Marlon Moraes）高扫KO后的心理顾虑作对比，指出眼部受伤的恐惧更深一层——它会演变成对失明的终身恐慌。选手每次看到对方手指伸过来，都会联想到迈克尔·比斯平（Michael Bisping）失去单眼的惨痛代价，甚至会害怕自己余生都只能用一只模糊的眼睛看着自己的孩子成长，这种心理负担沉重而残酷。 - 罗根的插眼判罚改革提议：取消无休止的口头警告，实行“触碰眼部即扣1分”的强制判罚，以此倒逼拳手改掉伸掌防守的危险坏习惯。 - 阿斯皮纳尔与比斯平的创伤对照：阿斯皮纳尔历经两次眼球手术；比斯平曾因视网膜脱落永久失去一只眼睛。眼伤对顶尖运动员在反应潜意识和生活层面都会造成长期的精神阴影。 ### [01:50:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6615s) 伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫 vs 伊恩·加里前瞻与截膝踢争议 在中途短暂的洗手间休息后，罗根和斯特林将目光转向了周末即将上演的UFC 330头条大赛，并探讨起伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）对阵伊恩·马查多·加里（Ian Machado Garry）的战局走势。斯特林以专业解说员的视角进行了深度剖析：马哈切夫此前展现出了极其恐怖的统治力，他在对阵杰克·德拉·马达莱纳（Jack Della Maddalena, JDM）时，完全用低扫砍断了对手的下盘，并在内围缠抱中彻底压制了JDM出色的拳击技术，其抱摔甚至不需要复杂的拳法铺垫就能随意将人摔倒。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 马哈切夫对阵伊恩·加里战术推演 accDescr: 对比马哈切夫的摔控压制与加里的外围游走防摔战术 subgraph Makhachev["马哈切夫 (Islam Makhachev) 战术核心"] M1["低扫破坏下盘节奏"] --> M2["内围缠抱与无预兆抱摔"] M2 --> M3["顶级地面压制与降服"] end subgraph Garry["伊恩·加里 (Ian Garry) 应对优势"] G1["身高臂展与刺拳控距"] --> G2["侧向环绕移动 (Lateral Footwork)"] G2 --> G3["防摔韧性与关节截击踢"] end Garry -. "拉开距离游走".-> Makhachev Makhachev -. "强突内围缠抱".-> Garry ``` 然而，伊恩·加里在防摔韧性上同样有着过硬的表现。斯特林指出加里在面对摔跤手比拉尔·穆罕默德（Belal Muhammad）以及体格庞大的沙夫卡特·拉赫莫诺夫（Shavkat Rakhmonov）时，都展现了极强的防摔与脱困能力。谈及拉赫莫诺夫，罗根补充道，虽然沙夫卡特凭借高超的缠斗击败了加里，但加里在那场比赛中用一记凶狠的斜向截膝踢（Oblique kick）直接踢爆了沙夫卡特的膝盖，导致后者接受了多次手术，韧带修复后再次撕裂，整整休战了两年之久。罗根坦言自己极度厌恶这种踩踏膝关节的踢法，并提到了卡利尔·朗特里（Khalil Rountree Jr.）踩踏莫德斯塔斯·布考斯卡斯（Modestas Bukauskas）膝盖导致其反关节重伤的恐怖场面，直言这种招式完全可能彻底毁掉拳手的职业生涯。回归比赛本身，斯特林认为加里拥有明显的臂展优势与灵动的侧向步伐，而马哈切夫在站立速率上算不上极快，加里的外围游走将成为阻击马哈切夫的关键变数。 - 马哈切夫克制站立系打法的策略：重拳前压配合内围缠抱，利用卡夫踢（calf kick）封锁对手的移动空间，具备极高的不依赖打击铺垫的裸抱摔成功率。 - 斜向截膝踢（Oblique Kick）的巨大破坏力：伊恩·加里曾以此踢重创拉赫莫诺夫导致其膝盖韧带撕裂休战两年；罗根呼吁正视该动作可能造成的职业生涯毁灭性伤害。 ### [01:52:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6746s) 伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫的绝对压迫与伊恩·加里的破局难题 阿尔贾曼·斯特林与乔·罗根深入探讨了伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）在八角笼内的统治力。马哈切夫不仅拥有极强的压迫感和封堵笼边角度的能力，其精准的南拳（反架）站姿更是绝大多数选手的噩梦。回顾其职业生涯，马哈切夫唯一的败绩是在早期被阿德里亚诺·马丁斯（Adriano Martins）以重拳迎击KO，而并非许多人误记的高扫。两人一致认为，加里（Ian Machado Garry）如果想制造冷门，必须研究那场远古比赛中马哈切夫暴露出的老习惯；但加里胜算极其苛刻，他只能依赖外线游走和点数控制，可一旦全场后撤防守，加里便极易耗尽体能——正如他在此前对阵卡洛斯·普拉特斯（Carlos Prates）时显露的疲态一样。 面对马哈切夫将对手逼至笼网抱摔的杀招，斯特林分享了自己在内围缠斗中的实战阴招。斯特林回忆起自己在UFC保持5胜0负不败金身时遭遇布莱恩·卡拉威（Brian Caraway）的那场硬仗：当时斯特林在笼边抱单腿将卡拉威悬空，卡拉威趴在他背上，直接用坚硬的指关节持续猛凿他的眼眶，导致斯特林整只眼睛当场肿闭。斯特林强调，在内围不能任由对手舒舒服服地寻找绊摔，必须用指节猛击对手的眼睛、鼻子等软肋；如果加里能在内围制造有效创伤，打乱马哈切夫的抱摔节奏，激发出混乱的缠斗转换，甚至有可能复制亚历山大·沃卡诺夫斯基（Alexander Volkanovski）在一番战第五回合将马哈切夫压制在下位的局面。罗根则补充道，那场在澳大利亚进行的对决中，赛事为了迎合美国转播时间导致选手的脱水减重恢复期严重不足，马哈切夫当时完全是在身体机能受损的状态下作战。 - **马哈切夫的破绽历史**：仅在职业早期输给过阿德里亚诺·马丁斯（首回合迎击拳KO），如今技术体系已臻成熟，极少重犯年轻时的冒进失误。 - **加里的战术劣势**：在外线打游走反击极度消耗体能，在笼边若无法打出实质性伤害，很难阻挡马哈切夫的下潜抱摔。 - **斯特林的内围指节打击法则**：在笼边被贴死或抱摔过程中，利用指关节攻击对手眼窝和鼻梁等面部软弱区域，以此破坏对手的平衡控制与摔法布置。 --- ### [01:54:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6888s) 麦肯齐·邓恩 vs 吉莲·罗伯逊：女子地面天花板的碰撞 两人的话题随后转向女子草量级的地面缠斗焦点战——麦肯齐·邓恩（Mackenzie Dern）与吉莲·罗伯逊（Gillian Robertson）的较量。两人均以顶尖的地面技术闻名，但战术风格与特质截然不同。邓恩是名副其实的多届柔术世界冠军，在下位防守与上位压制中都有极高的终结上限。更突出的是，邓恩在站立拼拳时带着一股不计后果的野性，完全不在乎自己漂亮的脸蛋是否会挂彩，敢于压上全部身位狂暴突进。 相比之下，吉莲·罗伯逊的站立打击缺乏重击威慑与爆发力，所有外线动作几乎都在为下潜抱摔或内围近身做铺垫。然而，一旦罗伯逊将战斗拖入地面、成功夺取骑乘或拿背位置，她的地面砸击（Ground-and-Pound）与肘击就极度残暴凶狠。罗根指出，本场比赛的核心悬念在于：罗伯逊过往能凭借地面砸击重创许多二流选手，但当对手换成柔术造诣处于世界金字塔顶端的邓恩时，她能否安然占据上位而不落入关节技陷阱，完全是另一个维度的考验。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 邓恩与罗伯逊的技术风格对比 accDescr: 展示麦肯齐·邓恩与吉莲·罗伯逊在站立与地面维度上的优劣势差异 subgraph Dern["麦肯齐·邓恩 (Mackenzie Dern)"] D1["站立风格：狂暴激进、不惜挂彩大摆拳"] D2["柔术体系：世界冠军级别，攻守两端全面"] D3["威胁特质：下位降服与突袭缠斗转换极强"] D1 --> D2 --> D3 end subgraph Robertson["吉莲·罗伯逊 (Gillian Robertson)"] R1["站立风格：拳腿威力一般，专攻抱摔铺垫"] R2["缠斗体系：擅长拿背与完全骑乘上位"] R3["威胁特质：极其残暴致命的近身地面砸肘"] R1 --> R2 --> R3 end ``` --- ### [01:55:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=6951s) 中量级的新杀手与过早面对踢拳巨兽的惨痛代价 两人随后将目光投向竞争日益激烈的185磅中量级。随着一批世界级怪物的涌入，这个长期阵容单薄的量级正迎来全新格局。罗根重点提到了在Glory荣耀格斗中曾战胜过阿莱克斯·佩雷拉（Alex Pereira）的踢拳名将塞萨尔·阿尔梅达（César Almeida，对话中提及的Bulgari）。阿尔梅达身形高大、臂展惊人，不仅站立打击处于世界天花板级别，在移师康涅狄格州与前冠军格洛佛·特谢拉（Glover Teixeira）及佩雷拉全天候合练后，其防摔和地面防守更是突飞猛进，正在迅速转型为真正成熟的综合格斗杀器。 两人回看了此前备受看好的摔跤新星曼苏尔·阿卜杜勒-马利克（Mansur Abdul-Malik）惨遭阿尔梅达技术摧毁的录像。斯特林指出，从摔跤手的角度来看，曼苏尔的抱摔准备动作过于生硬单调，而面对臂展优势明显、站立水平高出几个档次的踢拳冠军，他的每一次突进都在硬吃迎击。阿尔梅达在内围利用控制手腕顺势送出的致命肘击、凶狠的劈刺右手重拳以及密集的低扫，将曼苏尔彻底肢解。虽然曼苏尔凭借超凡的硬度苦撑，但整场比赛完全演变成了一场惨不忍睹的单方面虐杀。 - **中量级新人辈出**：量级深度大幅上升，不仅有曼苏尔等摔跤新秀，更有阿尔梅达这样将站立神技融入防摔体系的恐怖打击者。 - **与特谢拉团队合练的质变**：踢拳出身的选手在特谢拉团队打磨防摔与下位脱困后，弥补了MMA最大的短板，令传统摔跤手束手无策。 - **曼苏尔的技术短板**：抱摔缺乏打击铺垫与节奏转换，在面对高大反击型重炮手时突进路线单一，成为活靶子。 --- ### [01:59:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=7174s) “生涯打孔”效应与选手的自尊心陷阱 看着被重击不断撕扯的画面，罗根与斯特林展开了一段发人深省的讨论：过于顽强有时反而是拳手职业生涯的诅咒。罗根指出，在一场比赛中被一记冷拳一击KO，虽然结果难看，但对大脑的实际结构性损伤，往往远小于这种持续整整三个回合、承受成百上千记重创的漫长殴打。罗根用“在选手的生涯卡上打孔（holes punched in your card）”来形容这种不可逆的大脑损耗，而斯特林则将其称作“磕碰（dings）”——每个选手的职业生涯能承受的严重磕碰次数都是极其有限的，一旦额度用尽，下巴和抗击打能力便会彻底断崖式崩塌。 罗根直言，在传统职业拳击的精细运作下，任何负责任的经纪人或教练团队都绝不可能让一个羽翼未丰的潜力新星在这个阶段去硬碰阿尔梅达这种级别的顶级踢拳王者；团队理应先打磨选手的站立防守和全面技术，积累足够成长后再迎战强敌。然而在MMA领域，由于选手普遍抱有“我能干掉任何人”的极端自尊心（ego），往往会盲目接下风格完全被克制的高危比赛，最终在巅峰到来之前就提前透支了下半生的抗打资本。 ### [02:00:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=7239s) 短期接赛的豪赌与年轻的乔恩·琼斯 斯特林与罗根探讨了在 UFC 中把握比赛机会的残酷现实。拳手有时会心想“我能击败他，但不是现在，先让我打别人，以后再说”，但 UFC 从不会给拳手这种温室般的优待，赛事实打实地把拳手推向群狼环伺的困境。选手当然有权说“不”，可一旦拒绝，等待他们的很可能就是被赛事方长期雪藏。正因如此，许多拳手选择放手一搏，抓住临时替补的短期备战机会一飞冲天。 其中最典型的例子便是乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）。当时拉沙德·埃文斯（Rashad Evans）意外受伤退赛，年仅 23 岁的琼斯临危受命，替补出战时任轻重量级冠军、传奇名将“将军”莫里西奥·胡阿（Maurício "Shogun" Rua）。尽管琼斯和埃文斯曾是训练队友，但这并未阻挡他的步伐。更令人震撼的是琼斯的大心脏与野性——开局第一秒面对冠军传奇，直接以一记凌厉的飞膝开局，全场实现全方位暴打并夺得金腰带。斯特林感慨琼斯的天赋确实值得被当作样本深入研究，而罗根也提到琼斯如今开始转型执教，正在指导奥运摔跤冠军盖博·史蒂夫森（Gable Steveson），后者在综合格斗领域同样是个极度危险的狠角色。 ### [02:01:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=7314s) 聚光灯下的心理防线与对“心理教练”的争议 话题随即转向拳手在聚光灯下的真实心理状态。斯特林指出，无论场下展示多么精湛的技战术，真正踏入八角笼、暴露在万众瞩目的强光之下时，唯有拳手自己清楚脑海里在经历什么。如果无法在那一刻稳住心态，擂台便会变成一个极其恐怖的深渊，因为自信心是无法被外界凭空赋予的。心理教练固然能提供一些调节压力的工具，但真正的抗压韧性往往深植于选手的成长经历之中。 谈及心理教练，斯特林毫不掩饰自己的怀疑态度，戏谑地将其比作“披着铠甲的懦夫”（a chicken in armor）：“如果我知道我的对手请了心理教练，我绝对会往死里冲着他去。”罗根则提出了另一种视角：对于像亚历山大·潘托哈（Alexandre Pantoja）或彼得·彦（Petr Yan）这样早已证明过自己是狠角色的顶级精英，心理辅导或许只是帮助他们微调专注度的辅助工具。但两人一致同意，心理教练绝不可能“修补一艘漏水的破船”。如果一名选手原本在逆境中就容易动摇、习惯性寻找退路，那么寻求心理教练反而暴露了其致命软肋；只要对手拿到那把正确的钥匙捅开防线，等待这名选手的必将是一场心理崩溃的灾难。 ### [02:04:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=7446s) 肖恩·布雷迪的缠斗压制与麦克·莫拉莱斯的极限减重 罗根以肖恩·布雷迪（Sean Brady）为例，指出布雷迪虽然也聘请过心理教练，但在比赛中展现出的压迫力却令人胆寒。布雷迪不仅彻底压制了前世界冠军里昂·爱德华兹（Leon Edwards）——要知道爱德华兹曾摔倒过卡马努·乌斯曼（Kamaru Usman），本身缠斗水准极高——还在对阵华金·巴克利（Joaquin Buckley）时展现了降维打击般的地面控制。在罗根看来，布雷迪骑在巴克利身上时的从容模样，就像在训练馆里打沙袋一样轻松写意，完全不怕被对手挣脱，纯粹是用充沛体能将对手彻底碾碎。 随后两人将目光投向了次中量级超新星麦克·莫拉莱斯（Michael Morales）。莫拉莱斯的体型极其夸张，站在八角笼里简直就像个轻重量级选手，至少也是个极具压迫感的大号中量级。谈到减重，罗根称莫拉莱斯完全是极限减重的“代言人”： - 据传他在担任替补时体重曾高达 223 磅（达到重量级门槛），即便高强度训练后降到 193 磅，要想压到 170 磅的次中量级上限，单周仍需狂脱 20 磅以上的水分。 - 莫拉莱斯之所以具备如此强大的减重能力，源于他扎实的摔跤与柔道底子：他从 5 岁开始练习柔道，其母亲是柔道黑带三段（直至 42 岁才退役），他在 10 岁时又转练自由式摔跤。 斯特林打趣提到莫拉莱斯在社交媒体上男扮女装、飞吻搞怪的搞笑视频，直言看起来有点“违和”，罗根则笑着解释那应该是厄瓜多尔当地的某种传统狂欢文化；斯特林随即调侃称，自己可从未见过同为厄瓜多尔名将的“奇托”维拉（Marlon "Chito" Vera）干过这种事。 ### [02:07:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=7629s) 令人胆寒的卡洛斯·普拉特斯与次中量级未来格局 聊到次中量级最令人兴奋的对决时，罗根和斯特林都对卡洛斯·普拉特斯（Carlos Prates）展现出了极高的推崇。罗根直言普拉特斯强得令人发怵：“那个家伙真是吓死我了。”普拉特斯在擂台上的肢体语言极具迷惑性，总是把双手放得很低，一副轻松惬意、享受比赛的姿态；但在松弛的外表下，他拥有极其致命的重击能力，常通过虚晃出拳诱敌深入，紧接着突然垫步送出毁灭性的左膝顶腹。哪怕被摔倒在地面，他也能笑着跟杰克·德拉·马达莱纳（Jack Della Maddalena, JDM）调侃：“朋友，为什么非要摔跤呢？大家可不想看摔跤，快让我起来。” 两人推测了次中量级未来的走势：如果伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）在达成双量级冠军成就后，选择追随哈比卜（Khabib Nurmagomedov）的脚步功成身退转做教练，那么次中量级势必将迎来莫拉莱斯与普拉特斯争夺无可争议金腰带的火星撞地球般对决。谈及马哈切夫，罗根强调即便 JDM 在备战时传出严重的背部伤病导致摔跤训练受阻，马哈切夫在缠斗维度的挤压力（squeeze）依然代表着该级别的绝对天花板。这种令人窒息的统治力让斯特林心生向往，甚至开玩笑说：“把他们送去达吉斯坦练个两三年吧，只要给我一两周跟他们合练的机会，我就心满意足了。” ### [02:09:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=7755s) 像格斗一样的博弈：斯特林与GSP的国际象棋执念 乔·罗根向阿尔加麦恩·斯特林建议，趁着年轻应该抽空南下奥斯汀训练，毕竟时光不等人，总不能等到40岁再去尝试。斯特林则半开玩笑地表示，或许自己可以像“大力鼠”狄米崔斯·约翰逊（Demetrious Johnson）退役后那样，到处云游道馆；罗根随即提到乔治·圣皮埃尔（Georges St-Pierre, GSP）也常年保持顶级身材，频繁来到奥斯汀与戈登·莱恩（Gordon Ryan）一起切磋柔术。罗根赞叹GSP是真正纯粹的武术家，不仅身体从未走形，而且极具智慧，甚至在国际象棋上拥有相当高的水平。斯特林一听立刻接话表示自己也是一名国际象棋狂热爱好者，目前的Elo积分大概在1350到1420分之间。 斯特林坦言，自己虽然比不上2500分甚至3000分的大师级别，但他几乎每天必下。他偏爱玩5分钟一局的快棋对决，因为这与综合格斗的比赛节奏极为相似——每回合同样是五分钟，棋手必须在极短时间内看清对手布局、执行战略并组织攻势。谈到学棋契机，斯特林笑称自己在COVID-19疫情暴发、《后翼弃兵》（The Queen's Gambit）热播期间才真正入坑。在此之前，他曾抱有刻板偏见，甚至觉得“国际象棋很幼稚，像个男人就该去玩跳棋”，但很快罗根就吐槽“像个男人就去玩跳棋”是他听过最荒谬的说法。斯特林切实接触后迅速意识到，国际象棋完全是智者的顶级博弈，每一步都需要深思熟虑、设下圈套，与八角笼里的心理战和战术布局如出一辙。 罗根提到在奥斯汀的“喜剧母舰”（Comedy Mothership）俱乐部后台休息室里，下棋风气同样极度盛行。澳大利亚喜剧演员詹姆斯·麦肯（James McCann）水平极高，曾当场与GSP摆开棋盘杀得难解难分；而布莱恩·辛普森（Brian Simpson）与托尼·欣奇克利夫（Tony Hinchcliffe）更是天天在后台对局。罗根承认自己之所以不敢碰，纯粹是因为这玩意儿太容易让人沉迷，一旦接触就想钻研开局、弃子与各种套路，根本停不下来。 - 斯特林的国际象棋水平：Elo分值约为1350至1420分，每天坚持打5分钟快棋。 - 喜剧母舰后台棋局：詹姆斯·麦肯与GSP在休息室激烈对弈，常驻演员托尼·欣奇克利夫与布莱恩·辛普森也是重度玩家。 --- ### [02:11:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=7886s) 棋盘上的脑力极限：从盲棋对决到卡尔森的心智 在探讨学习路径时，斯特林回忆自己最初只是下载了国际象棋手机App，从最基础的兵只能直行斜吃、马走“L”形跳跃开始摸索。然而一旦入门便彻底深陷其中，不仅通宵刷教学视频，还经常连续观看长达一小时的进阶战术讲座。罗根回忆起世界棋王马格努斯·卡尔森（Magnus Carlsen）做客播客时的震撼体验，当时托尼·欣奇克利夫也一同参与对谈，亲眼见证这位历史最佳棋手拆解思维模型、提前算清数十步变化的过程，那种深不见底的智力复杂性令人叹为观止。更重要的是，国际象棋是一项可以相伴终生的竞技，无论未来身体机能如何衰退、肌肉是否走样，敏锐的智力博弈永远不会褪色。 两人的话题随后延伸至民间的棋力奇观。斯特林提到自己一些蹲过监狱的朋友在狱中练就了棋艺，自己刚学会下棋时一度觉得他们水平高不可攀，后来棋力增长后才发现对方也只算业余入门。罗根则分享了一段早年在纽约台球厅目睹的不可思议经历：一位自幼四处征战巡回赛的国际象棋天才少年，遇到了一个刚刑满释放的中年男子。由于监狱里缺乏实体棋盘，那个男人在漫长的铁窗岁月里完全靠纯思维推演练就了一脑子盲棋。 罗根回忆当时那副惊人场景：两人在台球厅面对面坐着，桌上空无一物，仅凭嘴里报出坐标走法进行“盲棋对战”。他们不仅要在脑中完全同步映射整个64格棋盘与所有棋子的即时动态，还得在高度集中的注视与沉默中辨别优劣形势。看着两个人在脑海中的“隐形棋盘”上激烈厮杀，罗根直呼这简直是超凡入圣的绝技，也是自己对国际象棋智力深度最震撼的启蒙时刻。 --- ### [02:14:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8051s) 自创朗姆酒品牌：把加勒比海岛风情融入日常 聊完棋局，斯特林邀请罗根品尝自己带来的第二款自创酒品——冰镇白朗姆酒（Silver Rum）。斯特林介绍道，酒吧里年轻女孩常点的“绿茶特调”（Green Tea Shot）多以威士忌或波旁打底，而他的品牌则打造了一款名为“银茶”（Silver Tea）的白朗姆喝法。两人顺势聊起朗姆酒的酿造与历史渊源，讨论究竟是由甘蔗汁还是糖蜜（Molasses）、亦或是甘蔗鲜汁（Rhum Agricole）发酵蒸馏而成。谈及加勒比海盗与朗姆酒的绑定形象，罗根用 Perplexity 进行了现场核实：事实上，17世纪的海盗更常饮用葡萄酒与白兰地；直到18世纪初，随着加勒比海地区甘蔗种植园与糖业生产的空前扩张，朗姆酒才变得普及且廉价，最终演变成大众文化中“海盗与朗姆酒”的标志性符号。 斯特林深入阐述了自己创立“Funk Harbor”朗姆酒的商业愿景。他观察到大众市场上充斥着百加得（Bacardi）、摩根船长（Captain Morgan）或马利宝（Malibu）等巨头，而大部分人只有在去加勒比海岛度假时才会尽情享受本土朗姆酒。斯特林希望打破“朗姆酒只属于海滩度假”的刻板观念，将其推广为一种全天候、全场景的饮用文化——无论是日常纯饮慢品、搭配雪茄，还是拉斯维加斯的泳池派对，都能让人瞬间重温热带岛屿的松弛与惬意。 斯特林强调，这并非单纯贴牌出资的敷衍之作，从品牌视觉、包装设计到资金投入均由自己一手操办。为了坚守血统与尊重牙买加同胞，他亲自探访了牙买加著名的沃西公园（Worthy Park）等老牌酒厂，采用传统的壶式与塔式蒸馏器调配，严格确保每一滴酒都是100%纯正的牙买加朗姆酒。目前品牌发展势头良好，正在敲定加利福尼亚州等更庞大的分销渠道，包括与国王海鲜（King's Seafood）的凯文·费勒（Kevin Feler）旗下连锁餐厅达成合作，将这份纯正的加勒比风味推向全美。 - 朗姆酒制作工艺：使用甘蔗与糖蜜为原料，Funk Harbor 采用壶式与塔式（Pot and Column Still）混合蒸馏工艺。 - 海盗饮酒史实：17世纪加勒比海盗主要饮用葡萄酒和白兰地，18世纪初因当地糖业与甘蔗副产品激增，朗姆酒才成为海盗主力饮品。 - 品牌核心承诺：100%牙买加原产混酿，与沃西公园（Worthy Park）等名厂合作，拒绝非纯正的地域虚标。 ### [02:17:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8250s) 朗姆酒事业与羽量级潜在对决 斯特林聊起自己的朗姆酒品牌 Funk Harbor Spirits 的创立契机。当时一位来自加州和拉斯维加斯、原籍长岛的商人在 Ariel Helwani 的节目中听到了斯特林的构想，随后主动发邮件接洽。斯特林最初甚至以为这是恶作剧邮件，抱着“看看会发生什么”的心态回复，没想到对方拥有正规扎实的企业与运作能力，最终让这个充满激情的副业落地生根。罗根由衷赞许在退役前就建立正规商业版图的做法极其明智，斯特林也强调这绝非简单印个名字敛财的“割韭菜”项目，而是实打实的长期事业。 谈及赛场现状与下一步对决，斯特林坦言目前羽量级前列选手几乎都各有安排，处于略微停滞的状态。在他看来，目前唯有勒隆·墨菲（Lerone Murphy）在排名和对阵逻辑上最讲得通，但他听说墨菲近期遭遇了伤病。两人还聊起迭戈·洛佩斯（Diego Lopes）击败史蒂夫·加西亚（Steve Garcia）后可能升入轻量级发展的传闻。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 斯特林羽量级潜在对阵局面分析 accDescr: 展示斯特林眼下在羽量级所面临的潜在对手分布及各自状态 subgraph Sterling["阿贾曼·斯特林 (Aljamain Sterling)"] A["寻找下一场比赛"] end subgraph Feathers["潜在对阵考量"] B["勒隆·墨菲 (Lerone Murphy)"] -- "逻辑最合理但传闻有伤在身" --> D["暂时搁置"] C["迭戈·洛佩斯 (Diego Lopes)"] -- "体型巨大，传闻升重轻量级" --> D E["琼·席尔瓦 vs 亚伊尔·罗德里格斯"] -- "双方预计撮合对战" --> D end ``` 提到曾经的赛后喊话，现场两人大笑着回忆起斯特林击败科里·桑德哈根后那句著名的嘴误口误梗：“我来日你了……暂停……我是来找你算账的！”（"I'm coming on that ass... pause... I'm coming for that ass!"）。斯特林坦言直到今天社交媒体上还天天收到这条梗图私信。当时他刚降服了被称为羽量级/雏量级“恶魔制造机”的桑德哈根，肾上腺素爆棚，而且经纪团队赛前私下居然认为桑德哈根会是公司首位夺冠拳手，这让斯特林像迈克尔·乔丹一样“把这当成了私人恩怨”，拿下酣畅大胜后情绪彻底失控。 --- ### [02:19:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8375s) 羽量级局势与亚伊尔·罗德里格斯的腿法 羽量级的多位名将此时均处于各自的战线中：加西亚刚尝败绩，阿诺德·艾伦刚与强敌恶战，而异军突起的琼·席尔瓦（Jean Silva）据传将对阵“黑豹”亚伊尔·罗德里格斯（Yair Rodriguez）。罗根与斯特林一致认为罗德里格斯与席尔瓦的碰面将极具观赏性。谈到罗德里格斯，斯特林毫不掩饰对其实力的敬畏，直言那是自己最不想在八角笼里碰到的类型之一，因为对方挥出的腿法犹如重型棒球棍迎面横扫。罗根补充道，罗德里格斯不仅力量惊人，脚下极具轻盈感与双侧协调性，能在不可思议的角度甩出致命踢击，毫无疑问是综合格斗界最顶尖的腿法大师之一。 很多人误以为斯特林从小练过跆拳道或踢拳，但他透露自己的踢击启蒙完全源自儿时录像带。作为一个拥有二十个兄弟姐妹的庞大家庭中的一员，男孩们整天在家里模仿录像带打闹，玩自创的打斗游戏，并无任何正规传统武术底子。 - 斯特林真正系统学习正统泰拳技术，始于大学时期在纽约 Team Bomb Squad 刚打业余赛及职业初期阶段，当时一位教授琼·琼斯（Jon Jones）肘法和膝法的泰拳教练指导了他基础的扫踢。 - 随后他又跟随爱尔兰泰拳老将普里莫·贝拉罗斯（Primo Bellarose）磨砺打击技法。 - 回到长岛后，斯特林并未设立固定的单一泰拳主管教练，而是将早年学到的动作融会贯通，形成独特的实战打法。 --- ### [02:21:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8499s) 定居拉斯维加斯与现代MMA一对一特训理念 虽然斯特林坚称自己的根永远在纽约，但他目前已长居拉斯维加斯。这里不仅是世界格斗之都，各类商业运作顺遂，也汇聚了海量的顶尖陪练与教练资源。此前他曾常驻 Xtreme Couture 与菲拉斯·扎哈比（Firas Zahabi）等人受训，也曾去往 Syndicate 拳馆帮梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）备战。 然而，斯特林对目前综合格斗界普遍盛行的“大课制”训练模式提出了深刻反思。他认为MMA在这方面依然相对落后，让成批职业拳手像普通学员一样固定在下午上大课并不科学。初学者阶段大课或许有效，但一旦迈入精英阶层，就必须过渡到类似拳击训练营的高度定制化私教模式——正如伊利亚·托普里亚（Ilia Topuria）、亨利·塞胡多（Henry Cejudo）和“大力鼠”狄米崔斯·约翰逊（Demetrious Johnson）所践行的体系。 斯特林在纽约时便基本自主把控整个备战体系的节奏：雷·隆戈（Ray Longo）带队负责实战对练，马特·塞拉（Matt Serra）体系负责降服缠斗，并长期与被誉为“训练馆梦魇”的技术大师杰森·劳（Jason Rau）一对一深造。这种以拳手个人为绝对核心构建的定制化团队，才是他们团队此前接连横扫各路强敌的关键。 --- ### [02:23:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8600s) 与梅拉布做邻居、“The Q”拳馆与实战化训练 在搬迁至拉斯维加斯后不久，梅拉布·德瓦利什维利也随之迁来，甚至把房子买在了斯特林正对门，两人成了隔街相望的邻居。如今两人主要在拉斯维加斯的一家名为“The Q”的新兴拳馆训练。此前，许多职业选手在 UFC PI（UFC运动表现中心）借场地训练，但由于官方场馆严禁私自收费办班，长期运作十分受限，主教练马特乌斯（Matheus Naccache）最终找到了独立的专属训练基地。 The Q 拳馆目前发展迅猛，多位年轻骨干已顺利晋级打入 UFC，包括迪奥尼·巴博萨（Dione Barbosa）、JP、沙恩·柯林斯（Shane Collins）等人，梅拉布接下来的训练营重心也将从 Syndicate 逐步转移至此。教练马特乌斯出自巴西著名的 Nova União 战队，从小与何塞·奥尔多（José Aldo）、雷南·巴劳（Renan Barão）以及约翰尼·爱德华多（Johnny Eduardo）一同成长。在训练之余，马特乌斯经常打趣斯特林：“兄弟，当年我坐在擂台边，亲眼看着你把我所有的巴西哥们和教练一个个全给揍了。” 在训练内容上，斯特林极为推崇这家拳馆去繁就简的实战哲学： - 拳馆课程彻底摒弃那些华而不实的八连击、十连击套路组合，全部围绕八角笼真实对抗中会出现的核心攻防场景进行拆解演练。 - 在高强度完成高度还原真实擂台的针对性组合演练后，拳手再无缝衔接针对具体战术的专属一对一私教，兼顾体能消耗与战术雕琢。 ### [02:25:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8735s) 史蒂夫·加西亚对阵迭戈·洛佩斯：技术战被拖入狂暴肉搏 斯特林与乔·罗根将话题转向了羽量级（145磅）的一场焦点对局——史蒂夫·加西亚（Steve Garcia）对阵迭戈·洛佩斯（Diego Lopes）。斯特林一直将加西亚视作该量级真正的“黑马”，他指出加西亚在145磅拥有大号体格，臂展长得夸张，扫踢极具威胁，而且一旦将对手拖入地面，其地面砸拳凶狠得近乎鲁莽。回顾加西亚为数不多的几场失利和被KO经历，基本都是因为在场上过于激进而葬送局势。在面对迭戈·洛佩斯时，加西亚开局打得格外冷静聪明，全面贯彻了技术型打法，在第一回合占据了明显上风。 然而比赛在第二回合风云突变。洛佩斯仿佛按下了体内的狂暴开关，抛出一句“去你的技术战（Fuck this technical shit）”，强行把一场精细的战术较量拉入了狂暴无序的“农场大乱斗（barn fight）”。洛佩斯拥有近乎马克·亨特（Mark Hunt）般的方下巴与花岗岩抗击打，他清楚自己的下巴能吃下重击，便毫不讲理地顶着伤害狂轰滥炸，最终一拳将加西亚重击翻盘。斯特林感叹道，拳手必须深刻自知，如果换成自己面对洛佩斯，绝对不会跟对方拼拳对轰，“我确信自己能抗揍，但那家伙手上可是长着大锤”。斯特林直言自己的制胜捷径永远是地面摔柔，但洛佩斯在地面同样极其致命，随后两人提到洛佩斯因体型庞大、减重困难，如今已经升重到了竞争极其惨烈的155磅轻量级。 ### [02:26:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8806s) 与洛佩斯的社交媒体恩怨与冠军挑战权之争 谈到迭戈·洛佩斯，斯特林聊起了两人之间微妙的过节与交流。在UFC训练中心（UFC PI）偶遇时，斯特林曾主动上前向洛佩斯祝贺胜利。此前两人曾在UFC 300同台作战并在后台合影，甚至一起实战训练过，私交原本相当融洽。但两人的关系随后产生裂痕，起因是斯特林习惯有话直说，公开表达了对羽量级冠军挑战权分配的看法。斯特林认为从战绩和竞技公平（merit）的角度来看，挑战权本该归属于莫夫萨尔·埃夫洛耶夫（Movsar Evloev），而洛佩斯更像是被赛事“保送”赠予了挑战机会，这种安排把整个量级的前进步伐彻底卡死了。这番言论随即引发了洛佩斯经纪人与斯特林在社交媒体上的激烈互呛。 尽管场下有口水战，斯特林对洛佩斯的硬实力依然十分认可。回顾洛佩斯对阵莫夫萨尔的那场恶战，洛佩斯在地面连续使出近乎成型的膝十字固（kneebar）、三角绞（triangle）和十字固（armbar），多次险些直接降服莫夫萨尔。罗根与斯特林一致认为，当前的裁判打分机制存在严重缺陷：在地面将顶尖高手逼入绝境的极深位降服尝试，其判定权重理应等同于在站立对攻中重击摇晃对手（rocking a guy）。仅仅因为防守方侥幸挣脱，并不能抹杀进攻方几乎将对手置于死地的事实。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 斯特林对羽量级战局与判分的逻辑链条 accDescr: 展现斯特林对史蒂夫·加西亚技术特征、迭戈·洛佩斯破局打法及裁判判分争议的分析流程 subgraph MatchAnalysis["加西亚 vs 洛佩斯战术对决"] A["加西亚首回合技术压制<br/>(超长臂展与精准扫踢)"] --> B["洛佩斯次回合开启狂暴对攻<br/>('去你的技术战')"] B --> C["洛佩斯凭借花岗岩下巴硬吃伤害<br/>强行拼拳完成翻盘"] end subgraph DivisionDebate["挑战权争议与地面打分"] D["挑战权归属分歧<br/>(斯特林认为应给莫夫萨尔)"] --> E["洛佩斯团队与斯特林线上交火"] F["洛佩斯险些降服莫夫萨尔<br/>(十字固/三角绞/膝十字固)"] --> G["裁判体系盲区<br/>(近乎成型的深度降服未获足够打分权重)"] end MatchAnalysis --> DivisionDebate ``` ### [02:29:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=8998s) 盖奇掀翻托普利亚：37岁老将打破不可战胜的光环 对话随后转入伊利亚·托普利亚（Ilia Topuria）与贾斯汀·盖奇（Justin Gaethje）的震撼大战。斯特林盛赞盖奇的完美表现，认为这场对决恍如当年盖奇摧毁“夜魔”托尼·弗格森（Tony Ferguson）的名局。赛前作为世界冠军的托普利亚不可一世，对盖奇极尽嘲讽与看轻，斯特林对这种被舆论一致看衰的境遇感同身受：“全世界都觉得盖奇毫无胜算，让他尽情去狂喷回击吧，因为换作托普利亚赢了，他也绝不会手下留情。”盖奇此役彻底改变了外界对托普利亚的认知——过去对手面对托普利亚时心存忌惮、未战先怯，而盖奇以极其强硬的姿态打破了笼罩在托普利亚身上的绝对光环（aura），向所有人证明“他也跟我们一样，穿裤子时也是一次套一条腿”。 罗根从身体物理维度的硬实力进行了深入剖析：托普利亚升级作战，体型明显偏小，虽然双拳蕴含着致人死命的破坏力（"death in his hands"），但盖奇拥有非人类般的坚韧度与抗击打。第二回合托普利亚全力倾泻重击试图终结比赛，却不仅未能击垮盖奇，反而彻底清空了自己的体能油箱（emptied the gas tank）。托普利亚急于求成，甚至想重现当年哈比布·努尔马戈梅多夫（Khabib Nurmagomedov）降服盖奇的骑乘三角绞（mounted triangle）来给比赛打上华丽的蝴蝶结，结果失误丢掉位置，局势瞬间崩盘。罗根与斯特林对盖奇匪夷所思的心态叹为观止——在第二回合被对手打中凶狠的肝脏爆腹拳后，盖奇走回场角时居然还在由衷赞叹：“好一记身体重击！”最终，37岁的老将盖奇抓住了职业生涯最后的机会加冕世界冠军。斯特林听到这里不由得打趣道，37岁登顶的壮举让他觉得自己同样还有机会书写传奇。 - **托普利亚的战术失误**：第二回合重创对手后过度亢奋，盲目耗尽体能追求降服终结，模仿哈比布的骑乘位三角绞失败导致优势尽失。 - **体格与物理劣势**：托普利亚从羽量级升入更高量级后体格劣势明显，难以凭借单一的爆发力彻底击垮像盖奇这样拥有超强下巴和坚韧神经的顶级老将。 - **盖奇的大将风范**：在被托普利亚命中极重肝脏拳后，不仅没有退缩倒地，反而在局间休息时真诚夸赞对手打得漂亮。 - **老将的信心提振**：盖奇在37岁高龄夺冠，为同样步入老将阶段的斯特林带来了巨大的心理鼓舞。 ### [02:33:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=9223s) 145磅的“灰姑娘式结局”与羽量级争冠前景 乔·罗根与阿尔加麦恩·斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）谈到了斯特林在羽量级（145磅）夺冠的可能性。罗根毫不掩饰对他的信心，直言他完全有机会在145磅登顶，上一场比赛已经充分证明了他依然拥有世界冠军级别的竞技水平与顶级经验。斯特林听到这里感慨万千，坦言如果真能在145磅拿下金腰带，那将是自己职业生涯最完美的“灰姑娘式结局”（Cinderella ending），“光是坐在这里聊起这件事，我浑身都会起鸡皮疙瘩”。罗根指出，斯特林现在比以往任何时候都更加聪明、技术更加成熟，能否圆梦完全取决于UFC是否愿意给他挑战冠军的机会。 斯特林透露，他希望UFC能尽快安排阿布扎比站的羽量级冠军战。如果下一场能够直接争夺金腰带，他完全愿意耐心等待；但如果没能排上冠军赛，他更倾向于保持活跃、继续打比赛赚钱，毕竟职业选手的生涯非常现实。在谈到潜在对手时，斯特林提到UFC方面曾向他抛出过一些人选名字，但有些对阵排名过低，对他而言向后打缺乏意义。不过斯特林也苦笑着自我剖析：“我从来没对UFC的比赛邀约说过‘不’，也许这本身就是个问题。”对他来说，最理想的剧本莫过于亚历山大·沃尔卡诺夫斯基（Alexander Volkanovski）重夺冠军后由自己去挑战，促成一场雏量级与羽量级两位传奇老将（OG）之间的巅峰对决。 - 斯特林认为自己作为统治过雏量级、手握多项纪录的前冠军，跨级别挑战羽量级冠军合情合理，特别是如果沃尔卡诺夫斯基获胜，这会是一场备受瞩目的超级战。 - 他表示如果得不到冠军战承诺，自己绝不愿长期休战，保持比赛频率并赚取出场费才是终极现实。 --- ### [02:35:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=9339s) 致命左勾拳、伊利亚·托普里亚与“康纳附体”的组合拳 话题转向了羽量级当下的混乱格局与顶尖打击高手的技术特点。乔·罗根与斯特林谈到了莫夫萨尔·埃夫洛耶夫（Movsar Evloev）等顶尖选手的胜负变数，随后将焦点落在了阿隆·皮科（Aaron Pico）的惊人拳法上。皮科早期的打法鲁莽激进，但罗根指出他在后来的比赛中做出了完美调整，尤其是那记招牌的左勾拳堪称教科书级别，“那记左勾拳应该被专门拿来教学研究”。随后两人一致认为，伊利亚·托普里亚（Ilia Topuria）的左勾拳同样致命，特别是击腹重拳极具摧毁力。 斯特林进一步分析了托普里亚的打击风格，指出托普里亚一旦找到节奏，通过微小的头部闪避（slip）后连环施展的多角度组合拳，几乎带有巅峰期康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）的影子。罗根对此深表赞同，形容托普里亚的准度与致命感正如当年康纳摧毁埃迪·阿尔瓦雷斯（Eddie Alvarez）时展现的“黑客帝国级”状态。两人还顺带提到了乌罗斯·梅迪奇（Uroš Medić）在比赛中打出的神同步终结连击，罗根称赞梅迪奇升入170磅次中量级是明智之举，摆脱了以往在155磅严苛减重的身体损耗，凭借高大身架连续首回合重炮终结对手。 - 托普里亚在闪避对手进攻后迅速展开压迫组合拳的节奏，被两人评价为兼具毁灭性与观赏性的顶级拳法，极具“老康纳”的压迫感。 - 乌罗斯·梅迪奇对阵丹尼尔·罗德里格斯（Daniel Rodriguez）时的打击动作曾被拿来与麦格雷戈做对比，升重后的发挥被罗根评价为体能与力量的全面释放。 --- ### [02:37:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=9422s) 塞尔维亚的狂热球场与经历战火洗礼的强悍心智 从梅迪奇的家乡塞尔维亚展开，罗根和斯特林聊到了巴尔干半岛令人震撼的体育狂热与文化氛围。罗根向斯特林展示了塞尔维亚篮球比赛的现场视频：球馆内漫天燃烧的红色照明弹（flares）、震耳欲聋且极具压迫感的人声合唱，整座看台如同一场失控的暴动。罗根感叹那里的比赛能量堪比NBA比赛的十倍，观众席几乎没有一刻是静止的，“简直就像在打仗”。斯特林调侃道，除了纽约球迷会因为在季后赛穿客队球衣而围殴对手之外，美国大部分职业赛场的氛围根本无法与这种狂热相提并论。 罗根深入分析了这种文化背后的历史成因：巴尔干半岛的民众不久前才亲历过残酷的战争，正如来自达吉斯坦或车臣的选手一样，这些战火中成长起来的格斗家与球迷拥有一种截然不同的“战士心智”（warrior mentality）。斯特林十分认同这种观察，他表示出国走一趟就会深刻体会到美国生活的优渥与自由，许多在国内被抱怨的问题，在其他历经动荡的国家看来完全是遥不可及的奢侈品。这种对比不仅让他懂得珍惜眼前的和平与机会，也让他对东欧和巴尔干地区复杂沉重的历史有了切身体会。 --- ### [02:40:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=9609s) 贝尔格莱德深夜惊魂：夜店外的炸弹威胁事件 随着话题深入，斯特林分享了自己在高加索与巴尔干地区的真实经历。在与好友梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）前往格鲁吉亚深入了解其与俄罗斯的战争历史后，斯特林又随同多位阿尔巴尼亚裔朋友走访了阿尔巴尼亚、科索沃以及塞尔维亚。在塞尔维亚街头，他曾多次目睹当地人主动上前搭话，在得知他的朋友来自阿尔巴尼亚或科索沃后，直接冷冷地甩出一句政治挑衅——“科索沃属于塞尔维亚”，剑拔弩张的氛围让斯特林费解又无奈：“我们明明只是来看比赛的，难道就不能和平相处吗？” 紧接着，斯特林讲述了一次惊心动魄的深夜遭遇。当时他们一行人与几名UFC工作人员在贝尔格莱德水上俱乐部狂欢后，来到一家名为“Good Food”的快餐店吃夜宵。队里一位长相极具阿尔巴尼亚特征的朋友被一名当地男子盘问籍贯，朋友如实回答自己来自科索沃。对方脸色骤变，一边将手深深插进衣服口袋，一边用塞尔维亚语低声放狠话。幸好队伍里有一位塞尔维亚当地朋友在场，听完后脸色大变并迅速翻译警报：“他说如果我们不在十分钟内滚出去，他就把这里炸平！”当时斯特林正好喝了酒在街角拐弯处上厕所，回到店门口听到这个消息时彻底惊呆，不得不紧急护送同行的女孩们撤离现场。 - 斯特林坦言，巴尔干半岛深植的民族矛盾让他亲眼见识到了历史伤痕的严峻现实，任何轻微的身份提及都可能瞬间点燃暴力冲突。 - 在快餐店遭遇疑似持有炸弹的当地男子极端威胁时，队伍里的塞尔维亚朋友充当了关键翻译，帮助整批UFC工作人员与选手在局势失控前迅速撤离。 ### [02:42:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=9731s) 塞尔维亚的惊魂手榴弹事件与巴尔干历史宿怨 阿尔加麦恩·斯特林（Aljamain Sterling）继续讲述他在塞尔维亚经历的离奇险境。一名男子在现场不断后退，开始大汗淋漓，手先是伸进后裤袋，随后又移到前面，口中用塞尔维亚语大声叫嚷着让所有人滚开。同行的人一开始以为对方掏出的是枪，但询问了同行的塞尔维亚朋友后，对方却告知那根本不是枪，而是一枚实打实的手榴弹。斯特林震惊万分，难以置信竟然有人会大摇大摆地随身揣着手榴弹走在街上，而这一切敌意的根源仅仅是因为在场有人是阿尔巴尼亚人。 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出，对于当地人来说，战争过去的年月太近，这种敌意就是他们的日常生活。斯特林感叹这种世代积累的怨恨与愤怒就像巴以冲突一样，双方总是在争辩土地划分、“你先伤害了我，但我祖上又被你伤害过”，甚至能一直追溯到公元前的历史。斯特林无奈地表示，大家为何不能在沙地上画一条明确的界线，达成共识翻过这一页，让每个人都能安居乐业地过平静生活。这种因为国籍和族裔就随手掏手榴弹相向的极端敌意，让从未经历过这些的斯特林感到极度错愕与心碎。 - 一名当地男子在冲突对峙中直接掏出随身携带的手榴弹进行恐吓驱赶。 - 斯特林将巴尔干半岛的族群恩怨类比为巴以问题，批评陷入历史宿怨死循环的无休止争端。 - 罗根强调当地人之所以情绪如此暴烈，很大程度上是因为近代战争的创伤仍旧历历在目。 --- ### [02:43:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=9834s) 敌意擂台：丹尼斯·布祖克加客场遭遇极端排外 斯特林提到了同行的阿尔巴尼亚裔队友丹尼斯·布祖克加（Dennis Buzukja）。当时丹尼斯前往当地打头条主赛，现场座无虚席，全场观众却在震耳欲聋地高呼“科索沃属于塞尔维亚”，甚至翻译给斯特林听的口号竟是赤裸裸的“杀死阿尔巴尼亚人”。斯特林当时听不懂当地语言，只觉得全场群情激愤的气氛十分疯狂震撼，堪比自己当年客场对阵肖恩·奥马利（Sean O'Malley）的压轴大战。尽管遭遇极端敌意，丹尼斯在客场表现得沉着专业，没有挑衅现场观众，像个真正的冠军一样应对一切。 比赛由于争议性的糟糕判罚终止后，丹尼斯退场时依然面临极端狂热粉丝的怒视与嘘声。斯特林甚至庆幸丹尼斯最后没有赢下比赛，否则他们很可能面临无法走出场馆的危险，甚至酒店都有可能被极端狂热分子炸毁。更让人震惊的是，丹尼斯的父亲仅仅因为自己的阿尔巴尼亚姓氏，驱车千里抵达酒店后竟被直接警告“这里不欢迎你”，被迫立刻原路驾车折返阿尔巴尼亚。 - 丹尼斯·布祖克加在塞尔维亚客场作战，遭遇全场观众高喊“科索沃属于塞尔维亚”以及针对阿尔巴尼亚人的极端仇恨口号。 - 斯特林坦言赛后甚至庆幸丹尼斯没能获胜，否则团队可能面临严重的暴乱威胁与人身危险。 - 丹尼斯的父亲千里迢迢赶来观赛，仅因阿尔巴尼亚姓氏便被酒店拒之门外并勒令返回。 --- ### [02:45:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=9925s) 体育包容性对比与拒绝赴俄出战摔跤超级赛 罗根与斯特林将这种极端的地域民族仇恨与美国本土的观赛氛围进行了对比。罗根指出，在美国的 UFC 比赛中，哪怕当前处于俄乌战争的大背景下，俄罗斯选手出战依然会收获全场观众的喝彩与掌声；虽然偶有观众高喊“USA”，但也纯粹是为本土选手加油打气，绝不会上升到叫嚣“杀死对手”的仇恨地步。 谈及跨国征战的心理压力，罗根询问斯特林如今是否敢去俄罗斯本土与俄罗斯人对决。斯特林透露自己确实收到过一份前往俄罗斯参加 RAF（俄罗斯柔术/摔跤锦标赛）对决的邀约，对手是一名 12 胜 0 负的 PFL 顶尖新星。在此之前他曾参加过一场与本森·亨德森（Benson Henderson）的对决。但斯特林果断拒绝了这次赴俄比赛，主要原因是他刚结束在阿尔巴尼亚和巴库的奔波，根本不想再远渡重洋；他需要专注于准备接下来的 UFC 比赛、陪伴妻子照顾家庭，并打理自己的副业。此外，两人也谈到了纯摔跤和缠斗比赛中极高的受伤风险（如格鲁吉亚奥运银牌得主重度伤膝的惨剧），斯特林直言 MMA 选手大部分严重的膝盖伤病罪魁祸首全是在练摔跤。 - 美国观众在格斗比赛中更看重选手的竞技表现，即便在国际地缘政治紧张时也不会对外国选手抱有极端敌意。 - 斯特林收到前往俄罗斯出战 RAF 摔跤超级赛对决 12-0 不败新星的丰厚邀约，但最终选择拒绝。 - 拒绝赴俄原因包括：厌倦长途跨国折腾、备战 MMA 比赛、经营朗姆酒与雪茄商业、陪伴家庭，以及防范高风险缠斗带来的膝部重伤。 - 期间穿插调侃了梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）与马克·扎克伯格（Mark Zuckerberg）在浮筏上实战切磋并将后者摔入水中的趣事。 --- ### [02:47:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI&t=10052s) 自创品牌 Funk Harbor 朗姆酒与职业生涯终章目标 节目尾声，乔·罗根向斯特林送上祝福，并详细询问起他的自创朗姆酒品牌。斯特林介绍，自己的品牌名为“Funk Harbor Rum”，目前成立刚好满两周年（截至8月1日）。品牌的销售额在第二年直接翻了一番，发展势头极其迅猛。为了进一步扩张业务，他们正在全美寻找更多区域分销商，并建立了一个名为 joinfunkharbor.com 的社区平台，还在众筹投资平台 Republic 上发起了众筹活动，让多年来陪伴他职业生涯的格斗粉丝有机会以投资者身份参与其中并享受专属福利。 罗根高度赞赏斯特林早早为退役生活布局商业投资的聪明举动。谈及斯特林在八角笼内的未来，罗根真诚祝愿这位 37 岁的老将能再次获得冠军挑战权。斯特林对此充满渴望，深知在职业生涯这个阶段时间紧迫，必须全力把握剩下的每一个机会。两人在温暖融洽的道别声中为整期节目画上了句号。 - 斯特林的自创烈酒品牌名为 **Funk Harbor Rum**，官方销售网站为 funkharborspirits.com / funkharbor.com。 - 品牌运营至第二年实现销售业绩同比翻倍，并在 Republic 平台发起众筹与社区项目（joinfunkharbor.com）。 - 罗根盛赞斯特林的商业头脑，并鼓励已满 37 岁的斯特林抓住职业生涯倒计时的最后窗口，全力冲击下一次羽量级冠军争夺机会。 ## Video description Joe sits down with professional mixed martial artist Aljamain Sterling, who currently competes in the Ultimate Fighting Championship's Featherweight division. He is the host of the "Weekly Scraps" podcast and founder of Funk Harbor Rum. https://www.youtube.com/@FunkMasterUFC https://www.funkharborspirits.com https://www.aljamainsterling.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visit https://ketone.com/Rogan for 30% OFF, or find Ketone-IQ at Target nationwide. This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBeQH39CZI)

[0:01] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. [0:04] >> The Joe Rogan Experience. [0:06] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY [0:08] NIGHT. All day. [0:12] >> We're uh [0:13] >> What's with the gold? What's going on? [0:15] >> Give me a smile. [0:17] >> Oh, you got it. Top and bottom, man. [0:19] What did you do? [0:20] >> It's amazing. [0:22] >> I've always wanted to have money so I [0:24] could get one of these when I was a kid [0:26] growing up. Now, is that one of the ones [0:28] you could take out or is it Okay, that's [0:30] good. [0:31] >> Cuz that's such a commitment. You know, [0:34] one day you got to go to the White [0:35] House, [0:37] right? [0:38] >> You got diamonds and gold in your teeth. [0:41] That's crazy. [0:42] >> It might be your first time, you know. [0:43] >> How does it fit? It's like like a [0:45] retainer. [0:45] >> Yeah. So, they they fit it. They mold [0:47] it. Um I got it done in in uh Dallas, [0:50] actually. And uh they just fit it, mold [0:52] it to your teeth, and then you could pop [0:53] them in. It's almost like wearing a [0:54] retainer. [0:55] >> Texas loves grills. Yeah, they love [0:57] grills. [0:59] >> We got to get Paul. [1:00] >> Yeah, Paul Wall say he's gonna hook us [1:01] up. [1:02] >> He's going. [1:04] >> Yeah, I'm not sure. [1:06] >> I just I remember [1:08] what was the one episode with uh Theo [1:11] and uh you asked about the headphones [1:12] and he was he said something like uh [1:14] it's like sitting there with the with [1:16] the with the with the condom and uh and [1:19] then she's just looking at you or I [1:21] forget exactly how the joke goes, but it [1:23] was it was funny. It's like one of Theo [1:24] Von's greatest um moments where he says [1:27] all these things. He was like when I [1:29] when I feel like saying it, I just write [1:31] it down. I don't know if you saw this [1:33] clip, but it's [1:34] >> I mean, I'm sure I was there when it [1:36] happened, but he says so many ridiculous [1:38] things. I can't remember. Here it goes. [1:40] >> Oh, here we I didn't see you put it on. [1:45] I [1:45] >> feel like I'm alone here. Land. [1:47] >> Yeah, it is weird, huh? [1:48] >> Now you're back. It's like when you put [1:50] a condom on and then the other person's [1:52] just still looking at their phone. [1:53] You're like, "Oh, this is weird." [1:56] And the person I mean is a woman, too. [1:58] >> You got you got to tell everybody, huh? [2:00] >> Well, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. [2:04] >> There he is. [2:05] >> Yeah. That's why we said the the [2:08] headphones, I just that just came to my [2:09] head like immediately. [2:10] >> Yeah. I Sometimes I have them off, [2:12] sometimes I have them on, but it's [2:13] better to have them on. You It locks you [2:15] in. Locks you in, you know? [2:17] >> I feel that. Did you watch the UFC this [2:19] past weekend? The Apex? [2:21] >> Um, [2:23] I watched the main event coming. [2:25] >> Bro, the main event [2:27] is legit. [2:28] >> I wasn't too sure about him, but now I'm [2:31] very sure [2:32] >> as a man who has one of the best back [2:34] controls in the sport. You [2:36] >> You had to appreciate that back control. [2:38] >> Oh, it was amazing. He took him down, [2:39] which I was kind of surprised. I was [2:40] like, why is he going for the take down? [2:42] >> Crazy. [2:42] >> Proving a point. [2:43] >> Proving a point because his standup is [2:45] so sick, too. Yeah, [2:46] >> that guy's so complete, man. [2:48] >> Did you do that to Gamerock? [2:50] >> That's what I was going to say. Crazy. [2:51] >> He's a sick grappler in his own right. I [2:53] thought he was going to get out that one [2:54] that one moment where he had the leg uh [2:56] hiked up, he had the ankle, [2:58] >> and all he had to do is swim inside, but [3:00] he kept it too long, allowed him to hit [3:02] the ground, and he was able to readjust [3:03] and uh lock in that that figured four [3:05] and it was over. [3:06] >> Well, when he reached over and grabbed [3:07] the far arm and used that to hang on to [3:10] the back, like that is slick. [3:12] >> Yes, [3:12] >> that was slick. He was he was [ __ ] [3:15] slick, man. And just just very high [3:19] level. Everything was like like an [3:21] elevated level. I was I had a very high [3:23] opinion of him before the fight, but now [3:24] I'm like, "Oh, this dude could do it. He [3:27] knows the ball. He knows the ball." [3:29] >> I was I was I was really surprised with [3:31] that. And the fact that it went so [3:32] quick. All his fights have been in the [3:33] first round. [3:34] >> And these scrambles these scrambles from [3:37] this position. Now, generally in this [3:39] position, it's so hard to keep back [3:41] control. Like right here, grabbing the [3:42] arm and this adjustment, bro, that's [3:45] that's really skillful. [3:47] >> There's a seat belt. [3:48] >> Yeah, [3:49] >> just the way he's able to adjust. [3:50] Gamerock's trying everything, but once [3:52] he gets to that position, it's over. [3:53] You're you're back [3:55] >> you're back in his uh backpack and [3:58] >> he's got a lot going on, man. He's first [4:00] of all real tall for the weight class. I [4:02] think he's over six feet tall. [4:04] >> Long, excellent reach, excellent strike. [4:07] The other thing that he did that was [4:08] really slick. He pretended to get up off [4:11] of his back so Gamerock explodes and he [4:14] exposes his neck right there. Watch [4:16] that. Back that up just a touch. What? [4:18] Look at that. This is so slick. Like [4:20] look, he's hanging on his back. They're [4:22] struggling and he said, "Let me just sit [4:24] up and he'll sit up." Bam. Right there. [4:27] That's so nasty. [4:30] >> This is slick as [ __ ] man. [4:31] >> That's so slick. That's such a good [4:34] sneaky move cuz the guy's like, "Oh, now [4:36] is my time to you know those moments [4:38] where you feel like you can move like he [4:40] got he you give you some space like I'm [4:42] going to go and then I'm I'm anytime I'm [4:46] in training and someone has my back I [4:48] always try to make sure I'm always aware [4:50] of the choke. Matt always says always [4:52] protect the choke first and that's the [4:54] main thing I always try to focus on. [4:55] protect the choke first before you start [4:56] doing anything else. That's crazy cuz at [4:58] the end of the day, it just takes that [4:59] little split second to get under the [5:01] neck and that could be the fight. [5:03] >> Yeah. It's like sometimes people just [5:05] get they they they get a little too [5:08] urgent, you know? They get a little too [5:10] they just want to make something happen [5:12] without just being safe all the time. [5:14] Always be safe. [5:15] >> And that's then in Gamerock's situation [5:17] right there. That was the moment because [5:19] who knows if he could have made it out [5:21] of that position and survived all those [5:23] choke attempts and got to the next [5:25] round. Who knows, you know, and if he [5:27] got on top, who knows? And Sal, [5:30] >> I mean, you presume he has great [5:32] endurance. You presume, but we really [5:34] don't know yet. [5:35] >> We have no wild unknown about him. [5:38] That's why I'm just like, I don't know [5:38] how good he actually is, but I can tell [5:40] you what first round he's a [5:42] [ __ ] [5:42] >> He's a [ __ ] [5:43] >> That guy is good. It's interesting like [5:45] these guys that that have the unknowns, [5:48] you know, like some guys get really f [5:50] like Tom Aspenol come becomes [5:52] heavyweight champion of the world and [5:55] it's kind of an unknown whether he can [5:56] fight in the fourth and fifth rounds. [5:58] Kind of crazy, right? We just know he's [6:00] a blitzer. We know he's big and fast, [6:03] but we really rarely see him get out of [6:04] the first round. [6:06] >> Yeah. [6:06] >> Kind of nuts. [6:07] >> It's um it's a gift and a curse, [6:10] >> right? That's a good way to put it [6:11] because you get both your paychecks. you [6:13] get done really really early, but then [6:15] if you get into the, you know, run into [6:17] the wrong one and the fight starts to [6:18] get tough, you don't know if you can [6:20] actually push that envelope cuz training [6:21] is different. [6:22] >> That is the most [ __ ] part of the [6:24] UFC, you get both your paychecks. [ __ ] [6:27] off. [6:28] >> [ __ ] off with that. I hate it. That [6:30] drives me nuts. [6:31] >> I know the boss. We could talk to him. [6:33] >> He's not going to listen. He would I've [6:35] said this a hundred times already. [6:37] >> It should be you get paid what you get [6:39] paid. It shouldn't be. First of all, if [6:42] if judges were perfect every time, maybe [6:46] you could make an argument for that, but [6:47] I still don't think you should make an [6:49] argument for that because I think guys [6:50] fight as hard as they can to win. [6:52] There's no one who's fighting harder [6:54] because you think you're going to get a [6:55] win bonus. You know, you're fighting as [6:57] hard as you possibly can [6:58] >> at the highest level. [7:01] >> And so, it's you're not incentivizing [7:02] people to fight harder. You're just [7:05] you're you're giving too much of their [7:08] career, too much of their future, too [7:10] much of their their actual like how are [7:12] they going to feed their family to the [7:14] whims of people that sometimes get it [7:16] wrong. 100%. I I I do remember one [7:19] incident where I was situation I should [7:22] say where I was going to fight harder [7:24] and that was UFC 300 against Calvin [7:26] Kedar when Dana announced the bonuses [7:28] were going to be 300,000 and I got super [7:30] pumped up and everyone always points to [7:32] they go you got so excited and then you [7:35] went there and you fought like that. I [7:36] go, listen, it's it takes two to tango. [7:38] If he wants to sit there and hold me, [7:39] it's not much I could do. I can't really [7:41] just fight. I thought about like, I'm [7:43] going to just go out there and just [7:44] start swinging for the fences and take [7:45] him down and maybe get a crazy finish. [7:47] And it didn't go that way. But [7:49] >> I tried. I tried. I thought about it. [7:51] Guys cancel each other out, too. [7:53] >> Yeah. That's the thing, you know, people [7:55] want exciting fights. Everybody wants [7:57] exciting fights, of course. Of course. [7:59] But there is a reality to skillful guys [8:02] going after each other and that [8:04] sometimes they'll cancel each other out [8:06] and make a boring fight. [8:07] >> Yeah, that [ __ ] happens. [8:09] >> It It really does. There's There's no [8:11] rhyme or reason either. Um [8:14] >> I mean, who was it? Um like Francis [8:17] Lewis, Francis Lewis, Francis Enanu and [8:19] Derek Lewis. [8:20] >> Derrick Lewis. Oh my god. One of the [8:22] worst fights of all time. [8:23] >> But we all thought that was going to be [8:24] just a quick fight. Someone [8:26] >> thought it would be madness. Madness. [8:28] Guaranteed madness. Two of the biggest [8:30] knockout artists in the history of the [8:31] heavyweight division. [8:32] >> An exact opposite. [8:33] >> Nothing. Nothing happened. [8:35] >> But it was hell. [8:36] >> These fights happened and then the fans [8:38] get on you about it. I'm like, listen, [8:39] you go take a punch from that guy. That [8:41] guy is going to send my consciousness to [8:43] a whole different universe. [8:44] >> Well, you had Francis coming off the [8:45] loss to Stipe and I think he was a [8:47] little rattled mentally. And then you [8:49] had Derek who realizes like he's looking [8:52] for his one big shot and he's not [8:55] willing to wait in and get clipped and [8:58] so he's you know waiting to play the [9:00] role the counter striker and then no one [9:02] does nothing. [9:03] >> Yeah [9:05] Spaza and Rosunas worst fight in history [9:09] arguably [9:10] >> it's it's I'm [9:10] >> I think it might be worse cuz I think [9:12] that was five rounds. We went through [9:14] five rounds of that [ __ ] [9:15] >> It was five rounds. That was worse than [9:16] Der Derrick Lewis and Francis Inanu [9:18] would have been the worst because of [9:19] expectations, but it was only three [9:22] rounds. [9:22] >> Yeah, [9:23] >> this was five rounds of what the [ __ ] is [9:25] going on. [9:26] >> And I it's not a knock on the fighters. [9:28] >> Of course not. They're two of the [9:29] greatest flyweights, [9:32] >> right? No straw straws. Two of the [9:35] greatest straw weights of all time. I [9:36] mean, Rose Namunas when she knocked out [9:38] Jeang Lee with that [ __ ] head kick. [9:39] Holy [ __ ] when she when when she uh [9:42] starched Yana, hit her with that left [9:45] hook and took her out. Like, dude, Rose [9:47] is a beast, man. She's a beast. At one [9:49] of the absolute most exciting fighters, [9:52] champions of all time in those those [9:56] particular exchanges, like some of the [9:57] fights that she's had, they've been [9:59] amazing amazing fights, but that just [10:01] fights that fight sucked. [10:02] >> Yeah. [10:02] >> For whatever reason, [10:03] >> it happens. [10:04] >> Just happens sometimes. I can't explain [10:06] it, but sometimes you just feel [10:08] something when you're in there. You're [10:09] just kind of like, well, I'm not going [10:10] to go. And they're like, well, I'm not [10:12] going to go if you're not going to go. [10:13] That just [10:14] >> a staring cont. [10:15] >> I don't know what was going on in that [10:16] fight. It was very strange. But I also [10:18] think there's a time when you've been in [10:21] so many wars, you know, you've been [10:24] you've had so many wars that your your [10:26] willingness to exchange is different. [10:29] Your your your drive to attack is [10:31] different. It's not there anymore, you [10:33] know, and some especially people who [10:35] fight in wars and Rose has been in some [10:38] wars. [10:39] >> And that's why I fight the way I fight [10:41] now so differently because those wars [10:43] that I had leading up to where I'm at, I [10:45] mean, I had that barn burner with all [10:46] these other guys on the way to the title [10:48] and I had to change it up. [10:51] >> Yeah, you got to stay alive. [10:53] >> You got to fight smart. [10:54] >> I'm joking. My fights are not born like [10:57] that. [10:57] >> No, but they're different. your fights [11:00] are uh the best ex you have the best [11:03] back control I think I've ever seen in [11:04] the sport. There's when you get on [11:06] someone's back I'm like oh [ __ ] this is [11:08] getting crazy. [11:09] >> Yeah. You know [11:10] >> I did want to say I appreciate cuz I do [11:12] hear the the episodes where you guys [11:13] talk about it. I'm like yeah [11:16] nuts. The Sanhagen fight is nuts when [11:18] you know how good Sanhagen is and you [11:21] just got that back and that was nighty [11:23] night. It was so slick. You've done that [11:26] to so many dudes, too. And you could [11:28] see, you know, like obviously redemption [11:30] for you was the second Pod Yan fight. [11:32] That was redemption. [11:33] >> Felt so good. [11:34] >> Cool. I remember you came in right [11:36] afterwards. I was like, "Everybody's got [11:37] to shut the [ __ ] up now. They all got to [11:40] shut the [ __ ] up." [11:41] >> They go, it was a split decision. I go, [11:42] "Shut up. Shut up." [11:44] >> Yeah. Please. Yeah. You you you really [11:48] showed everybody in that second fight. [11:49] The first fight was just nonsense. the [11:52] first fight with just that kind of a a [11:54] move to hit someone when they're down on [11:56] one knee like that. Like, what the [ __ ] [11:58] are you doing, man? That was a rough [12:01] time. [12:01] >> Crazy. And then you having already had a [12:04] bulging disc in your neck. Your neck was [12:06] already [ __ ] It's also kind of crazy [12:09] that you could compete at the level that [12:10] you compete at with a fake disc in your [12:13] neck. [12:13] >> Yeah. [12:14] >> Do you ever think about that thing? [12:15] >> Oh, 100%. I still have like nerve damage [12:18] in my tricep from it. Like if I do like [12:20] a Pilates or just a um plank, you'll see [12:23] it just this side shaking. [12:26] >> It's so bad. [12:27] >> Even till this day, [12:28] >> it's a lot better than what it was [12:30] before. But this is what people don't um [12:32] understand that some of these fighters, [12:33] us like we go through a lot just to make [12:36] it. And you're going to hear the other [12:38] side of it. Well, no one told you to do [12:39] it. It's not even about that. It's just [12:41] like we're trying our best to chase [12:43] something great, something that's crazy [12:46] in in the sense of the word, right? And [12:48] uh you put your body through hell to get [12:50] there. And um I just I know there's [12:53] great fans out there who appreciate that [12:55] and there's the other ones who are more [12:57] casual and they don't really understand, [12:58] but I wish they took the time out just [13:00] to train to do a week of training and [13:02] understand what we put our bodies [13:03] through day in at a high level against [13:05] other highle guys. [13:06] >> Listen, you need the casuals. You you [13:08] need everybody to buy tickets. It's all [13:10] great. [13:10] >> Yeah. But the reality of the casuals, [13:13] all you haters, you are doing yourself a [13:16] disservice, too. You're saying [13:18] ridiculous [ __ ] You're acting like a [13:20] [ __ ] [ __ ] What you really should [13:22] do is do better in your own life, and [13:25] you wouldn't be a hater, cuz almost all [13:27] haters are losers. 100% of them. And the [13:31] people they're hating on are doing way [13:34] better than them. And there's legitimate [13:36] criticism, but legitimate criticism can [13:38] be handled respectfully. [13:40] And the people that don't handle [13:42] legitimate the people that don't dish [13:44] out legitimate criticism respectfully is [13:47] because they haven't been smacked, [13:49] >> right? [13:49] >> Yeah. [13:50] >> Or they haven't been smacked by the guy [13:51] they're talking [ __ ] about. [13:53] >> Yeah. Or they see them and then they [13:55] change their tune real quick. It's such [13:56] a weird [13:57] >> people are so crazy. They talk about [13:59] literal professional fighters and call [14:02] them [ __ ] [14:05] >> I can show you. [14:07] >> I got a lot of DMs. [14:08] >> It's so delusional. One guy said, "I'll [14:10] fold you in half like recently." Cuz I I [14:12] don't But they're just trying to [ __ ] [14:14] with your head. They don't even believe [14:16] that they're trying to get a rise out of [14:17] Alamine Sterling. They can get a rise [14:20] out of a UFC champion. You know how when [14:23] they're 16 years old, jerking off with [14:25] Cheetos all over their fingers. You know [14:27] how exciting that must be to to have [14:30] direct contact with you? [14:31] >> Yeah. That's why I try I try not to [14:33] engage as much as I used to because [14:35] before I would I think we talked about [14:36] it before. I would engage and go back [14:38] and forth with it. [14:39] >> Don't do it. [14:40] >> And I I kind of got away from it. But [14:42] the old version of me would like to just [14:44] say all kinds of crazy [ __ ] but I'm [14:46] I'm, you know, a little bit more mature [14:47] now. [14:48] >> There's no benefit in it. And it wastes [14:50] energy. That's the problem. And then it [14:52] also wastes your you get distracted [14:53] like, "What did he say back? I can't see [14:55] what this [ __ ] responded to. I'm [14:56] going to get him again." [14:57] >> I do check. I do check. You saved a [14:59] bunch of pictures of him from the [15:01] Instagram. Let me see your ass in person [15:04] in real life. Yeah. before he deletes [15:06] it. Let me screenshot these. [15:08] >> Uh yeah, there people are people, so I [15:10] get it. [15:10] >> Yeah, people are people, man. And I [15:12] would have done the [ __ ] same thing. [15:13] If I was 15 years old and somebody gave [15:15] me an Instagram account and I could talk [15:16] [ __ ] to whoever, I would talk [ __ ] to [15:19] everybody, [15:21] >> whoever it was. [15:22] >> I'm trying to think if I was like that. [15:24] I don't know if I was ever like that. [15:25] >> It didn't exist when you were a kid. It [15:27] the access didn't exist. If that access [15:30] existed, I guarantee if you and your [15:32] friends like, "Bro, Drake's talking [ __ ] [15:34] with me." And you and Drake are going [15:36] back and forth, you like, "Fuck you, [15:37] pussy." Like, of course you would do it. [15:41] Everybody would do it. I would do it [15:43] 100%. [15:45] >> I guess it's just human nature. [15:46] >> 100%. But I think that when you get to [15:50] the level that you're at, a literal [15:52] world champion and a professional [15:54] fighter of the highest caliber, that's [15:58] you do yourself a disservice. You do [16:00] like I love Sean Strickland. He's crazy [16:03] as [ __ ] but he gets in there with [16:05] everybody all the time. He get he gets [16:07] in there all day long talking [ __ ] with [16:09] people. He gets in there, but [16:11] >> it somehow or another doesn't distract [16:13] him. I wouldn't give him the same [16:14] advice. Something's [ __ ] up about his [16:16] brain that like for him to be in that [16:19] kind of conflict all day, it doesn't [16:20] seem to bother him at all. [16:22] >> I think it fe like fuels him to like [16:25] want to keep going more like driving. [16:27] >> Gogggins plays a recording of all the [16:30] [ __ ] that all of his haters have said to [16:32] him while he runs. [16:36] >> I wouldn't do that. But [16:37] >> but you know what I'm saying? [16:39] >> Like there's people that are wired [16:40] different and they think Shawn is very [16:42] very much wired different. And for [16:45] whatever for whatever reason, you know. [16:47] >> Yeah. I sometimes I always but I like [16:50] it. I like he should have a segment like [16:52] how Ray Longo has like the the Ray Longo [16:54] minute. He should have like a a [16:56] Strickland minute. [16:56] >> Well, I was telling him, you know, we [16:58] were talking when he was out here. He [16:59] went to Ways to Dwell as well um to get [17:01] his shoulder work done after uh the [17:02] Hamza victory. And I was saying you 100% [17:05] could do a podcast. It would be [17:06] hilarious. It would be great. You could [17:08] have guests on. You could do whatever [17:10] the [ __ ] you want. Like you have a real [17:11] future outside the sport. Like once and [17:14] he's also very smart with his money. As [17:15] crazy as that dude is, he saved a ton of [17:17] money. He gives great investment advice [17:19] on Twitter. Like you he gives investment [17:21] advice. You're like, "Wait, who the [ __ ] [17:22] is this?" Yeah, this is the same guy. [17:24] He's telling you how to invest your [17:25] money, you know, S&P and all this [ __ ] [17:28] Like, oh, what? [17:29] >> He's not as crazy as he comes off. [17:30] >> He's a lot smarter than people give him [17:32] credit for. He He uses that as like it [17:36] tricks you and it tricks you into [17:38] thinking that he's like a silly person. [17:39] >> Yeah. [17:40] >> You know what I mean? [17:40] >> But he'll say whatever comes to mind. [17:42] Yeah, that's him. But [17:44] >> [ __ ] can fight. [17:45] >> Yeah. And I respect the [17:46] >> end of the day. That's the thing. That [17:47] dude can fight. Like he can fight and he [17:49] fights in a weird way. Like his very [17:52] weird style. Like nobody has that style. [17:54] This episode is brought to you by Ketone [17:57] IQ. I've tried a lot of supplements, but [18:00] for years been one thing that I've been [18:02] obsessed with to keep my brain locked [18:04] in, and that's ketones. An energy [18:06] molecule our brains naturally create [18:08] when pushed to our limits. Ketones used [18:10] to cost thousands of dollars a shot and [18:13] were only used by super elite people. [18:15] But now, thanks to a $6 million research [18:18] contract with the military, Ketone IQ [18:20] had a breakthrough, and you can finally [18:22] get ketones online, on Amazon, or at [18:26] Target for $5 a shot. They don't taste [18:29] good, but damn, do they work. Trust me, [18:32] if you rely on your brain for your [18:34] day-to-day success like I do, take [18:36] Ketone IQ. I take it and I love it. I [18:39] feel sharper. I make better decisions. I [18:41] have faster memory recall. And I'm more [18:44] productive. Your brain thrives on [18:46] ketones. Go to ketone.com/roganogen [18:49] for 30% off your subscription order. Or [18:51] find ketone IQ at Target stores [18:54] nationwide in the protein and [18:56] electrolyte aisle and get your first [18:58] shot free. They're so confident in it [19:01] that they even offer a 60-day money back [19:04] guarantee. So, go ahead and take your [19:06] shot. Um, by the way, do you have a [19:09] lighter? [19:09] >> Yes. And a cup? [19:10] >> Of course. Well, you want some cigars? [19:12] >> I I got some. [19:13] >> Oh, [ __ ] Al Jermaine brings gifts. [19:16] Let's go. [19:16] >> We bring gifts. These are fighter [19:18] cigars, too. [19:19] >> Fighter cigars. [19:19] >> Yeah. I'm like part of that, man. [19:21] >> Uh, so it's different fighter lines. I [19:23] know you got a foundation. [19:25] >> Uh-huh. [19:25] >> If I could ever open this. I think it's [19:27] all cold now. Use my my fighting [19:30] muscles. [19:33] >> [ __ ] hell. You need some help? [19:35] >> I might. You might. You got the beer [19:37] claws. [19:40] >> It's weird. [19:42] >> I broke it. [19:44] >> I broke the Oh, I broke that, too. What [19:46] the [ __ ] dude? I arrowhead. [19:48] >> It's supposed to just pull open. [19:49] >> Should [19:50] >> I open it this morning? [19:51] >> That's weird. Did something happen to [19:53] it? [19:55] >> Got cold. [19:56] >> I got a knife in here somewhere. Where's [19:57] some big ass knives that used to be [19:58] here, Jamie? [19:59] >> Oh, yeah. I had to take them out. [20:01] >> Why? Oh, when the device president was [20:02] here. [20:03] >> Yes. [20:03] >> Lucky I always carry one. [20:07] If we can't get these open, algae, bro, [20:09] this is like chromatically sealed [20:11] backwards or something. [20:12] >> No, there we go. There we go. Got it. [20:14] >> So, we got different ones. You got a [20:16] Drew Dober in there. You got a funk [20:17] master. [20:19] >> I think that's the Funk Master. [20:20] >> Oh, [20:21] >> so I don't know if you like like light [20:22] or dark. [20:23] >> I like them all. [20:25] >> This is you. We got to smoke yours. [20:26] >> Come on. [20:28] >> Triumph cigars. So, who's who's making [20:31] these? Where are they making them out [20:32] of? [20:32] >> Uh, so he gets them from different [20:34] places. That's clipper on the back of [20:36] that, too. [20:39] >> He gets it from different places like [20:40] >> Yeah. Like Cuba. Um Nicaragua. [20:44] >> Cuba. [20:45] >> Cuba. Really? [20:47] >> I believe it's Cuba. [20:48] >> Cuz Cuban cigars are [20:50] >> banned or hard. No, no, no. They're not [20:52] really banned. Pop the top. Have you [20:54] ever Do you know how to smoke cigar, [20:55] son? You know. What are you doing? What [20:57] are you doing? Give that Give that to [20:58] me. [20:59] >> Oh [ __ ] [20:59] >> That's the clipper, [21:01] >> bro. This is high. This is some high [21:03] level [ __ ] right here. Calibri. [21:05] Um, [21:07] >> lot of lot of fake Cuban cigars. [21:09] >> You got one. I got one. [21:11] >> And then flip the top. There you go. [21:16] >> So, they got like Maduros and different [21:17] kinds. I'm like new into cigars. [21:21] >> Damn. These are the Funk Master. That [21:23] might be dead here. I'm sorry. [21:26] This one's good. This one's good. Jamie, [21:29] you smoke cigars? [21:30] >> No. [21:30] >> Damn. Jaime's strictly blunt. [21:33] >> Oh, [21:34] >> but now he's got to stop because he [21:36] doesn't want to be a fell [21:37] >> here. Can't do it here. [21:37] >> He's got to cross state lines. Got to go [21:39] to Oklahoma and get high. [21:42] >> Do you Do you actually [21:43] >> once a day? [21:45] >> Yeah. He takes a flight [21:47] >> southwest Oklahoma. Gets some bong rips [21:50] and hops back on there. Come back. [21:54] >> This is good. This is very good. So, the [21:58] feedback on them has been great. They're [22:00] good quality cigars. They make them from [22:01] like people that make them and they get [22:03] them to make our own different like [22:05] lines of them. So, [22:06] >> pretty cool. [22:08] >> I like them. [22:09] >> When we used to perform in Miami, uh [22:11] there was a place that you could go [22:12] where you could watch them hand roll [22:13] cigars and they'd sell you cigars like [22:16] hand rolled. It was pretty dope. You [22:18] watch these ladies like roll everything [22:19] out and they get that long knife and [22:21] they slice it up and they [22:22] >> You rolled yourself. Have you? [22:23] >> No. No, no, no, no. [22:24] >> They told us how to roll down in uh [22:26] Miami. I don't want to ruin it. I don't [22:28] want to do brain surgery on myself [22:29] either. [22:30] >> It's fun. [22:30] >> Get an expert. [22:32] >> Somebody's got to be good at this. [22:36] >> You got a a rum line, too, right? [22:38] >> Mhm. [22:39] >> Is that it? Funk Harbor around your [22:40] neck. [22:41] >> Funk Harbor, baby. [22:42] >> Look at you. [22:42] >> I got money now. Joe, [22:44] >> you know that song, [ __ ] I got money [22:46] now. [22:48] >> I I was supposed to bring my shirt [22:50] because I I don't know if you wanted it [22:51] like signed or whatever, but [22:54] >> Sure. [22:55] >> But we won multiple medals and things [22:57] like that. Multiple medals. There's [22:58] medals for [22:59] >> like competitions. Yeah, [23:00] >> for rums. [23:01] >> Yeah, we got two double golds for this. [23:03] We got two double golds for the silver. [23:04] >> Jamie, can you get us some ice cubes and [23:06] some glasses? Let's [ __ ] party. Al [23:09] Jamine. [23:10] >> Then we're going to go to the mother [23:11] [ __ ] [23:12] >> I I love that name, by the way. [23:13] >> Thank you. [23:15] >> Yeah, we were trying to figure out what [23:16] to call it. We had a bunch of different, [23:19] you know, Mitsy Shore, that lady who ran [23:22] the comedy store. Yeah, the painting up [23:24] there. That's her. She was the the owner [23:27] and founder of the comedy store. She [23:29] used to say about the comedians, the [23:31] inmates are running the asylum. So, we [23:34] were going to call it the asylum, but I [23:36] thought that sounds corny. A little [23:38] corny. There's something about it. It's [23:40] like a little like, oh, we're crazy, you [23:42] know? And then I thought, well, what is [23:44] this? One of the things that Ron White, [23:46] he was the first Ron White was the first [23:48] guy to move here. And, you know, I knew [23:50] Ron real well from LA. And Ron said, [23:54] "You know, I love it. It's in the middle [23:56] of the country. You could fly out." [23:58] What's the matter? You want one, Jamie? [24:00] >> I got work to do. [24:01] >> You got work to do. It won't get [24:02] hammered with us. He goes, "It's in the [24:04] middle of the country. You can fly out. [24:05] It's only like three hours New York, [24:07] three hours to LA. It's perfect." And I [24:09] was like, "Well, that would be like the [24:11] mother ship." And then you could fly [24:13] out. All your all your ships could fly [24:15] to different parts of the but that would [24:16] be your base. The mother ship would be [24:18] the base. I'm like, "Oo, that's pretty [24:20] cool." Plus, obviously I'm obsessed with [24:22] aliens. [24:22] >> That's what I thought it was. [24:23] >> Of course. Yeah. I mean, I'm obsessed [24:26] for whatever reason. [24:27] >> Um, [24:28] >> which one? Dark or light? What's the [24:29] difference? [24:30] >> So, this one's our limited edition. It's [24:32] got the number one on it. We're going to [24:33] be coming out with some different ones. [24:35] We're actually going through a rebrand [24:36] right now. This one's aged 2 to 5 years, [24:38] but they're all Jamaican origin. This [24:40] one's aged under the tropical sun. [24:42] Unaged is a silver. [24:44] >> We'll bust out that age under the [24:45] tropical sunshine. This one we use X [24:47] bourbon cast. So it drinks really nice [24:49] if you like bourbon. [24:50] >> Okay. [24:50] >> It's a little bit It's like I don't want [24:52] to say sweet, but it's not as uh harsh [24:54] when you drink it. [24:55] >> Are you a rum guy? Is that your thing? [24:57] Is that why you started a rum company? [25:00] >> Yes. [25:02] >> You've always been a rum guy. [25:03] >> My parents are from Jamaica. [25:06] >> So I went [25:06] >> My parents are from Italy, but I hate [25:08] grapa. That shit's nasty. [25:11] >> Grappa's not [25:12] >> That's [ __ ] nasty. That stuff's [25:14] nasty. I'm going to take the big one. [25:16] >> All right. [25:17] >> Cheers, sir. [25:19] >> What do you guys say? Sal. [25:20] >> Salute. Salute. [25:22] >> I thought you guys said something else [25:23] in Italy. [25:24] >> I don't know. Do they? I just got back. [25:28] I was just there last week. [25:30] >> Yeah. [25:31] >> Two weeks ago. Yeah, two weeks ago. It [25:33] was It's awesome. I love it there. [25:35] >> We still haven't gone. We want to go so [25:37] bad. [25:37] >> Oh, bro. If you want to eat, that's the [25:39] place. [25:39] >> Pasta. I just hear everybody talking [25:41] about like I would love to do that. I [25:43] gained three pounds. I ate nothing but [25:45] carbs. [25:47] I ate so much food. I I ate till I was [25:49] hurting every night. I was like I was [25:52] like, I'm going to ignore my diet [25:54] completely. I I worked out every day, [25:56] but I was like, I'm going to ignore my [25:58] diet completely and just just eat for [26:00] pleasure. [26:01] >> But it's not as bad though. The It's not [26:03] as bad for you. The food is not as bad. [26:05] >> But wait, calories are calories though. [26:07] But [26:07] >> it's just the volume. I'm a glutton. I [26:10] ate two pizzas. I ate linguini with [26:12] clams. I had uh bara and and and um [26:16] tomatoes. And I also had what else did I [26:20] have? Something. Oh, a bunch of pieces [26:21] of bread. I ate so much in one setting [26:23] that I got home that night when we sat [26:26] back and I was like I can't move. Like [26:30] I'm I've eaten myself to a place where [26:32] I'm like you ever see one of those lions [26:34] that eats too much and they just line. [26:39] >> That's how I felt. Trust me, that those [26:41] were those were my 135 days. As soon as [26:44] the fight's over, I'm going in. [26:46] >> Bro, I remember one time I ran into you [26:48] at the Apex and I was like, "What do you [26:50] weigh?" And you said 176. I was like, [26:52] "That's crazy." [26:54] >> Yeah. [26:54] >> You got to lose 40 lbs. That's crazy. [26:58] >> The fascinating part is when I went up [27:00] to 45, I got down and I was lighter in [27:03] my natural walking around weight, still [27:05] eating the same way I always did. And I [27:07] was walking around about 168, sometimes [27:10] 66 to about 172. And I'm like, this is [27:13] doesn't even make any sense how much [27:15] lighter I am from 135. [27:18] >> Maybe it's just less anxiety about [27:19] making the weight. [27:20] >> That too. [27:21] >> Your body didn't hold on to it as much. [27:23] >> Yeah. So the body kind of just [27:24] recognizes what's happening like, oh, [27:26] this is a nicer weight cut. [27:28] >> Yeah. You're healthy now. [27:29] >> Yeah. [27:29] >> Even though it's still a weight cut. I [27:31] was going to say, but I just checked my [27:33] weight last week when I got Well, [27:35] actually, two days ago when I got back [27:37] from [27:40] >> You're at least 170. [27:41] >> I'm heavier than that. [27:43] >> 175. [27:44] >> North 80. [27:45] >> 180. [27:45] >> I was 78. That's when I checked. [27:48] >> And I didn't look fat. I was like, "This [27:50] is crazy. It's happening again. It's [27:52] happening all over again." [27:53] >> That's people that don't understand it. [27:55] Like, I have to explain to my normie [27:57] friends. They're like, "How does he lose [27:58] all that weight? He doesn't have [28:00] anything to lose. I'm like, well, you're [28:03] sucking your muscles dry. That's what's [28:05] crazy. And your organs. That's what's [28:08] really dark. Oh, it's dark, dude. It's [28:10] dark. It's the worst part about [28:11] fighting. [28:12] >> I still think same day weigh-ins. [28:14] >> Well, same day weigh-ins would change a [28:15] lot, but also guys would get really hurt [28:18] because people are still going to lose [28:19] the weight. They're still going to do [28:21] it. [28:21] >> But I think that's going to be a like a [28:23] phase. Like people going to realize how [28:24] stupid this is and go, "Oh, I actually [28:26] feel better just competing at my [28:28] weight." Perhaps, but I think you would [28:30] have to have multiple weight classes [28:33] added. Many weight classes added. [28:35] There's too many gaps that are too [28:37] ridiculous. [28:37] >> The the 15 lb gap would be the most [28:40] challenging from 55 to 70. [28:42] >> What about 85 to 205? That's nuts. 85 to [28:45] 205 is crazy. 20 lbs is crazy. [28:48] >> I I always thought there should be an in [28:49] between for that one. [28:50] >> 100%. [28:52] >> This should be every 10 lbs. Every 10 [28:54] lbs is is smart, you know. go 125, 35, [28:58] 45, 55, 60. Blow up the ones that are, [29:02] you know, like when you get to 70, make [29:04] 70, 775. You know, 85 is already there. [29:07] Make a 95, make a 205. And then it gets [29:11] weird with heavyweight. I think you [29:13] might want to have like a bridger [29:15] weight, like a 220, 225, and then giant [29:19] fellas. And then after that, it should [29:21] be as big as the [ __ ] you want to be. [29:23] Cuz that's the weird thing is like [29:24] >> heavyweights limited. I remember Tim [29:26] Sylvia when Tim Sylvia was saucy. There [29:30] was a time when Tim Sylvia was big. He [29:31] was a big fella and he had he was [29:33] cutting weight to make 265 hardcore. He [29:37] was barely making it. He was so big back [29:39] then, man. [29:39] >> He's a big man. [29:40] >> He's gigantic. [29:41] >> Yeah. [29:42] >> And that was when he was [ __ ] sick. [29:45] And he uh I remember watching him [29:47] struggle to make the 265. I'm like, [29:49] that's crazy. Why are you making the [29:51] heavyweights cut weight? That doesn't [29:52] make any sense. It it takes away from [29:54] what heavyweight actually [29:56] >> Yeah. [29:56] >> the biggest baddest [ __ ] alive. [29:58] >> Yeah. [29:59] >> You know, when Mike Tyson was [ __ ] [30:00] everybody up, people we ate 220. [30:02] >> He I don't want to say small. Let me not [30:04] say small. For heavyweight for [30:05] heavyweight, he was [30:06] >> Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter. Kane, [30:08] when Kane was [ __ ] everybody up, he [30:10] was 240. [30:10] >> He was light, too. [30:11] >> Yeah. Fedor, same thing. He was never [30:13] real big. Fedor was fairly small [30:16] compared to a lot of other heavy [30:17] heavyweights. [30:18] >> But then you got a guy like uh Rose [30:20] Bellis Despin. [30:21] >> Oh, that guy's crazy. He's huge. [30:24] >> Seven feet tall. He's gigantic. [30:25] >> Huge. That guy is [30:26] >> That range is nuts. [30:28] >> He's like the the the modern day [30:29] Neanderthal. Like he's a Amazonian. He's [30:32] a giant. A literal giant. He's one of [30:34] those guys where um when I saw that [30:36] fight that that uh MVP did with him and [30:39] Junior Dos Santos, I said, "Please don't [30:41] do that fight. That that fight's not [30:43] right." That's that's one of those [30:44] fights where you're like, "That fight's [30:45] not right." [30:46] >> Yeah. [30:47] >> This is just too much of a changing of [30:49] the guard. [30:49] >> Yeah. is one guy who is coming off of [30:52] karate combat. First of all, it one [30:54] thing if Junior was a wrestler, if [30:56] Junior was a sick wrestler and you know, [30:58] oh, you know, maybe he's going to take [30:59] him down, ground and pound. This this is [31:01] kind of even though he's older, he's [31:03] been knocked out a bunch of times, he's [31:04] still very dangerous. But, you know, [31:07] Junior had seen his best days back when [31:09] he knocked out Kane, which was like, [31:11] what year was that? [31:14] >> 2016, 2015 [31:16] >> was it even? [31:18] I got signed at 2014. [31:20] I don't I think I I remember Kane, not [31:23] Kane. [31:23] >> So, it was the big it was the big Fox [31:25] card. It was the first card on Fox [31:28] because I remember they made Kane fight [31:29] with a blown out knee or they encouraged [31:32] him [31:33] >> to fight with a blown out knee. Kane's [31:35] knee was [ __ ] before that fight [31:38] >> and Junior caught him with that perfect [31:40] right hand. What? 2013. Okay. [31:43] >> That's his debut, [31:45] >> right? No, that's that fight. That's the [31:47] fight where he knocked out Kane [31:48] Velasquez lost to [31:50] >> Oh, that's the second one. [31:52] >> What's the one where he beat Kane? The [31:53] is right before that. [31:55] >> Uh, no, right before that. [31:57] >> So, he got signed. [31:58] >> Yeah, the Fox one. 2011. Okay. So, 15 [32:01] years of wars. [32:03] >> Yeah. [32:04] >> 15 years of the steep fight which was [32:06] horrible to watch, right? That was a [32:08] brutal, brutal fight. And then you have [32:10] the second Kane fight which was horrible [32:12] to watch. And then I think there was a [32:14] third Kane fight too. Correct. with JDS. [32:16] >> Yes. Which was also horrible to watch. [32:19] You know, it's that [32:19] >> two tough fights back to back, [32:21] >> bro. You if you don't take Kane out in [32:24] that first round, that storm never ends. [32:26] >> Yeah. [32:27] >> Never ends. You're like, we're going to [32:28] ride this storm out. [32:31] >> No, [32:32] >> there was no riding. Prime Kane was a [32:35] [ __ ] dude. I man when uh I'm [32:39] I've always been conflicted with him and [32:41] DC because it kind of reminded me of uh [32:43] Morab and I and I always said like if DC [32:46] stayed at heavyweight he could have [32:48] arguably potentially have been the [32:50] greatest heavyweight of all time but I [32:52] do know DC always says in the training [32:55] room Kane was the man. He was the guy. [32:58] >> Yeah. He told me always Kane beat his [33:00] ass. DC should have been a middleweight. [33:02] How about that? [33:03] >> I don't know that guy is making [33:04] middleweight. He disciplined DC. [33:06] >> Him and his chicken. [33:07] >> If DC went to Dagistan, if DC went to [33:10] Dagistan for three years, [33:14] >> he's not going to forget. [33:16] >> Yeah. Forget three years. Um, if he if [33:21] DC made middleweight, and he could have [33:22] made middleweight, a lot of guys who are [33:26] way leaner than him have made that [33:28] weight. So, I saw him at my UFC debut, [33:32] UFC 170 at Mandalay Bay in the back [33:35] room, uh, cutting weight, doing the [33:37] workouts, and he looked like he was [33:40] dying just to make 205. [33:42] >> Mhm. [33:43] >> True. [33:43] >> So, I don't know how he would have done [33:46] it. [33:48] >> Well, he would have had to change his [33:49] diet. No more Popeyes. [33:51] >> Yeah. No more nothing. No more garbage. [33:53] And he would have had to I love DC, too. [33:55] He's my favorite person to do commentary [33:57] with by far. He's the best. [33:59] >> He's fun. [34:00] >> He's We have such a good time. We have [34:02] such a good time. He's such a fun dude. [34:04] Like genuinely happy fun dude. Look at [34:06] him. That's 205 DC. So 205 DC though, [34:10] you're telling me that like Alex [34:11] Pereira, if he was built like that, [34:12] couldn't lose 20 pounds? Of course he [34:14] could. [34:16] >> Yeah. I don't know cuz he's not Look, if [34:19] you see the guys that fight at 85, like [34:21] Joe Pyer, [34:22] >> Joe Pyer is a giant. Draus Dus Duplaci [34:25] is a [ __ ] giant. [34:27] >> He's big. [34:27] >> He's gigantic. He looks like a [34:29] heavyweight [34:30] >> and he makes 85. I What does that mean? [34:33] >> He's sucking it in. [34:36] >> He could have made middleweight. He [34:38] could have made middleweight if he had [34:39] like the real if if he just had the [34:42] drive and did it as a lifestyle change [34:44] and like did it over the course of like [34:46] a year and like really leaned himself [34:49] out, got on like a ketogenic diet, [34:51] leaned himself out. But then how often [34:54] would he be able to fight? Depends on [34:56] how much he actually gets his body [34:57] weight down to. That's the thing. Like [34:59] DC's only like 51, 510. [35:03] How tall is he? [35:04] >> I'm going to give him 5'11. Maybe maybe [35:07] I love him. He might be might maybe [35:08] might be 5'11 5'8. [35:10] >> But there's guys with his body that [35:13] could have but it's not like a thing [35:14] where you you can make the weight by [35:16] just dehydrating yourself. No, he's too [35:18] big. But if he had with his frame, if he [35:21] had slowly but surely leaned himself out [35:24] and did it healthy, smart over like the [35:27] course of a year, he'd have to take some [35:28] time off and really just dedicate [35:30] himself to just getting lean. His gas [35:33] tank would be better. Who's gonna [ __ ] [35:35] with that guy at middleweight? Do you [35:36] remember what he was doing to Dan [35:38] Henderson? [35:39] >> Do you remember that fight? [35:40] >> Flipped him like a burger, [35:41] >> bro. He threw him around like a ragd [35:43] doll. And Dan Henderson's a monster. [35:46] He's a monster. That guy's a beast. He's [35:48] such a tank. And DC just ragdalled him. [35:51] Just ragdalled him. [35:53] >> That was 205, right? Henderson came up. [35:55] >> Henderson came up. [35:57] >> Yeah. You know, cuz when I would cut [35:59] down, and I wasn't always this big at [36:00] 35, but when I would cut down to 35, I [36:03] would have to do it in stages. So, I [36:05] couldn't do a 3 month turnaround like I [36:08] did for the one fight. [36:09] >> How much time do you need? [36:11] >> I needed [36:13] four months is ideal. [36:14] >> That's crazy. [36:15] >> It's ideal. So, long [36:16] >> cuz I could slowly get down [36:18] >> and then I could start tripping away cuz [36:20] I'm at my natural state. I'm fat and [36:22] happy and it's not even fat. I'm just at [36:23] my normal walking weight. And then I get [36:26] down from 70 whatever to 70. Then I get [36:29] the next week or the week following down [36:31] to 65. After that I get down to 60. And [36:34] that's like the optimal weight I want to [36:36] be at. And then I get to 55 and this is [36:38] like where I'm going to be when I'm [36:39] stepping into the octagon. So to do that [36:42] over the periods of time like you could [36:44] do it really quick cuz I I have the [36:46] wrestlers mentality. I can do it fast [36:48] but doesn't mean everything is going to [36:50] be where it should be. And I also felt [36:51] my cardio in rounds four and five in [36:54] comparison to doing rounds four and five [36:55] in the training room severely different. [36:58] >> My gas tank, you would think I was [37:00] morab, right? And uh just for for [37:02] comparison sake, right? And then I go [37:04] into the fights and rounds four or five, [37:05] I'm like, [37:06] >> I got to conserve some I got to conserve [37:07] some energy cuz I'm I'm slowing down. I [37:09] can feel it, but I'm trying not to show [37:11] it. That was [37:11] >> Is there a difference between when you [37:13] were allowed to use the IV and when they [37:14] took the IVs away? [37:15] >> I used IV once. [37:16] >> Only once? [37:17] >> And that was in like 2015. I thought it [37:19] was stupid. It took forever to get it. [37:21] I'm like, I could have been eating right [37:23] now and I'm the same weight that I was [37:26] when I just ate. I'm like, I much rather [37:28] just stuff my face. [37:29] >> I think the idea is that it hydrates you [37:31] more efficiently because instead of [37:33] having to go through your stomach, it [37:35] goes right into your veins and then it [37:36] hydrates your muscles more efficiently. [37:38] >> I didn't really feel like a performance [37:41] difference if I'm being honest. [37:43] >> Interesting. [37:43] >> But I'm different. Some people call me [37:45] an anomaly and they say you can't do [37:46] what I do. I drink in training camp and [37:48] people think I'm crazy. Really? [37:50] >> Yeah. How? [37:50] >> I drink the night before the fight. [37:52] >> What? [37:52] >> Yeah. [37:53] >> Come on. [37:53] >> I have I have one glass sometimes two. [37:56] >> Really? [37:56] >> Three years later, we're getting crazy. [37:58] But [37:58] >> the night before the fight after you've [38:00] cut weight. [38:00] >> Yeah. [38:01] >> Why do you do that? [38:02] >> I'm not Jon Jones cuz that guy is built [38:06] I'm built different, but he's built [38:07] different than me. Well, I think John is [38:10] just so [ __ ] talented and so [ __ ] [38:13] smart that he was able to get by and [38:16] dominate at a world championship level [38:18] by putting himself at a deficit like [38:21] that. [38:21] >> Whereas if John [38:23] >> You say that, but John's a different [38:25] person. Like he wouldn't be the same [38:26] guy. He's wild. There's something about [38:29] John that's one of the reasons why he's [38:30] so good is that he's wild. [38:32] >> He's intelligent and wild at the same [38:34] time. And that's why you can't compare. [38:37] It's like whatever makes you happy. When [38:39] people uh I remember Kyle Dake said [38:41] something like he'll eat ice cream, not [38:44] right before a match, but in his [38:45] training. He's like because it makes him [38:47] happy. I want to have a drink because [38:49] throughout the training camp I'm already [38:51] going through this hard grind after [38:53] sparring and I feel like I hit a [38:55] threshold where my conditioning is at a [38:57] place where I want it to be. It's like a [38:59] checkpoint. I'm like, "Okay, this is my [39:01] checkpoint. I hit it." Have you ever [39:02] worn an Aura ring or a Whoop strap or [39:04] any of those things? [39:05] >> Yeah, that thing's stupid. [39:06] >> Well, they lie to you. [39:08] >> That thing's attacking me every day. [39:10] >> Cuz what it's saying is that the alcohol [39:12] is affecting your sleep. [39:14] >> Stop attacking me. I've [39:16] >> took that [ __ ] off and threw it in a [39:18] corner somewhere. [39:18] >> [ __ ] you with your facts. [39:21] >> Facts and data. [39:22] >> I uh I remember I brought out Adrian [39:24] Giannis. I brought him out twice. The [39:26] first time though, um it was for the [39:28] Podon rematch and uh he stays at my [39:32] house for about a week. We spar I think [39:34] it was a Thursday. I take him to Johnny [39:36] McGoris and um I bring him to my guy [39:39] Rishi. He's like [39:40] >> Johnny Mcores. [39:40] >> It's a it's a pub. [39:42] >> Okay. [39:42] >> Um on Long Island in Masipico. They got [39:44] two now. But um I bring him over there [39:47] and the the guy I talked to over there [39:49] who I deal with, Rishi, he's the man. [39:50] He's good friends with Weidman and [39:52] Volante from like the college days back [39:54] at Ha and he's a big MMA fan. So I love [39:56] that. So instantly we kicked it off when [39:58] I met him the first time. So I bring him [40:00] over there and it's after the spar. I'm [40:02] like, "Yeah, we're going to get some [40:02] food." We go there and then he sees me [40:05] and I order a drink and I I was like, [40:06] "Yeah, get one for him, too." He's like, [40:07] "Yo, bro, what are you [40:10] what are you doing?" I was like, "No, [40:12] no, this is normal. Trust me." He's [40:14] like, "You he looks at me. He's just [40:15] like dumbfounded. He's like, "You drink [40:17] in training camp?" like it was the [40:19] biggest like taboo thing on earth. I'm [40:21] like, "Yeah, dude. Like, we just had [40:23] some good rounds today. This is my [40:25] reward. You deserve one, too. Like, [40:27] you're in shape. I'm in shape. Let's [40:29] have one or two." And uh and I always [40:32] get my Thai chili wings over there. And [40:34] so, whenever I go in Long Island, I'm [40:36] finishing up a camp on the East Coast. [40:37] I'm fighting home on the East Coast. Um [40:40] Rishi always hit me up. He goes, "We're [40:41] gonna do the uh the ritual, get the Thai [40:44] chili wings, and get my IPAs." And yeah, [40:47] but like I said, everyone's different. [40:49] Whatever makes you feel comfortable if [40:51] if you're going to do it, you can't like [40:53] for me, like having a drink the night [40:55] before the fight and people go like [40:56] you're not worried it's going to affect [40:57] your performance. And I go, if I lose [41:00] because of this one drink, [41:03] I wasn't supposed to win. Point blank [41:05] period. [41:06] >> Okay, but let me let me push back on [41:07] that. Imagine you're fighting a guy who [41:11] you and him are like that. Neck and [41:13] neck, neck and neck. Mosar [41:15] >> neck and Yeah. Right. Neck and neck. And [41:19] the difference is whether or not you got [41:21] that extra REM sleep the night before [41:23] where you could push when you lay off, [41:26] when you lay back on the gas, when you [41:28] really maybe could like if you were a [41:30] little bit more rested, you could just [41:31] one extra move, one extra transition, [41:34] one extra guard pass, one extra attempt [41:36] at a submission, one extra thing that [41:38] gets you the round. You know what I'm [41:40] saying? [41:41] >> I take my naps before the fight. [41:45] I take my nasty before the fight. [41:47] Recharge that battery. [41:48] >> Well, listen. Ilia Tori used to drink [41:50] wine [41:51] >> at the weigh-ins. He was weighing in [41:53] while he was cutting weight. [41:55] >> He was drinking formula. Yeah. [41:56] >> Yeah. There's no perfect formula. [41:58] >> I mean, it also there's something to be [42:00] said for doing what makes you happy [42:03] always. I think enthusiasm is a very [42:06] important thing. Enthusiasm and joy is a [42:09] very important thing. It's underrated. [42:11] >> Yeah. So, my friend Dennis Bizookia, he [42:13] just fought in the Albania card. Um, bad [42:16] stoppage by the ref. And I like Jason [42:19] Herszog, but bad stoppage. He said he [42:20] tapped, he didn't tap. [42:22] But I remember his second contender [42:24] fight, he's cutting weight and Morab is [42:25] having a party at his house in Vegas. [42:27] >> That tap, that was a weird one. That tap [42:29] was weird. [42:30] >> He went from locking his hands to [42:32] finding his leg and pushing off the leg [42:34] and he ruled it as a tap. [42:35] >> I just don't understand that tap. I go I [42:38] go, Jason, we've I've trained with Jason [42:40] and I'm not I'm not attacking him [42:42] because I don't want people think I [42:43] don't like to attack people unless they [42:44] really deserve it. But I go, if you're [42:47] not sure cuz he said he wasn't sure. He [42:48] said it looked like a tap. So I go, if [42:50] it if you think it looked like it and [42:52] you weren't sure, why not just wait? [42:54] Because if it was, he would do it again. [42:57] >> Yes. But his immediate action after [42:58] pushing off the leg was to grab between [43:00] his leg where you kind of lock your hand [43:02] from the head and arm. And [43:04] >> I have the hardest time ever finishing [43:08] Dennis. And I'm a pretty good black belt [43:10] in jiu-jitsu. And that's a good position [43:12] for me. And I struggle. I could count on [43:15] my hands how many times I've probably [43:16] finished him in that position. [43:17] >> It's also it's the classic defense. You [43:19] grab the leg and that's the best way to [43:22] prevent the guy from putting all the [43:23] pressure on the neck with the head and [43:25] arm. [43:26] Do you ever go to do you know what the [43:28] impaler is? Eddie Bravo calls the [43:30] impaler to get out of that position. You [43:33] you slide the knee to the sternum [43:36] >> and you finish with the knee on the [43:37] sternum [43:38] >> for the bottom guy [43:39] >> for the top guy. [43:40] >> So when the guy's defending [43:41] >> Yes. [43:42] >> Yeah. You go knee to sternum. It's [43:44] [ __ ] brutal, man. Brutal. [43:46] >> You're being attacked on two different [43:47] fronts. [43:47] >> Uh-huh. You You're being crushed. Your [43:49] SHM's being crushed. And this defense [43:52] does not work as good anymore. It still [43:54] gives you a little bit the the grabbing [43:56] the leg and looping over like that gives [43:58] you a little bit, but there's something [43:59] about that crushing on the sternum and [44:02] along with the squeeze of the head and [44:04] arm choke. [44:04] >> Yeah, [44:05] >> it's nasty. [44:06] >> The difference with that I would imagine [44:08] you it at least when I've tried it, I [44:10] try to get it before they get on their [44:12] side because once they're perpendicular [44:13] with the ground, it's a little bit hard [44:14] to get the exact [44:15] >> course [44:16] >> pressure point of what you want. And I [44:18] go, I tried this literally the very next [44:21] day and I go, there's no way you could [44:22] submit somebody with your ass in the [44:24] air. You're you could be squeezing as [44:26] hard as you want, but if your ass is in [44:27] the air and this guy's on the side, it's [44:28] going to be really difficult to make [44:30] somebody tap in that position. [44:31] >> Very hard depending upon your squeeze [44:33] ability, right? [44:33] >> That too. Did you see Amos when Amos [44:36] finished that dude? He did the he did [44:38] that thing. He's a nasty grappler, [44:40] >> bro. And it's crazy cuz he lost to Jason [44:42] Jackson. And I'm not saying that as a [44:44] like a slight [44:45] >> Jason, but it's like how good is Jason [44:47] Jackson? [44:47] >> Jason Jackson's real [ __ ] good. [44:49] >> And that's my Jamaican brother. He's not [44:51] signed. [44:51] >> Real good. He needs to be signed to the [44:53] UFC 100%. [44:55] That guy could crack. He took him out, [44:57] man. He took him out. He didn't just [44:59] beat him. [44:59] >> Yeah. I wish out [45:01] >> crossromote. [45:03] >> Well, I don't think it's not. I know [45:05] it's not going to happen, but [45:06] >> I wish Santa Claus was real. [45:09] >> But I know like why don't we just find [45:11] out who's it? Make it like boxing, you [45:14] know, where we can find out who's [45:15] actually [45:15] >> So look at this how he finishes. DC and [45:17] I were actually talking about this [45:19] because he look he goes knee to the [45:22] belly. See how he does that across. Now [45:24] if you're grabbing the leg, so if he was [45:26] grabbing his leg, you would go knee [45:28] across the chest and you put it right [45:30] down on the sternum. But he did that to [45:32] make sure he was flattened out. [45:33] >> Yes. to make sure that he couldn't go to [45:35] the side. But this dude is [45:36] >> this was so good. [45:37] >> Wicked. [45:38] >> Joel's just looking like I can't do [45:40] anything about that. [45:41] >> Of course he can [ __ ] of course he [45:43] could break dance, bro. Break dancing is [45:45] a great base for jiu-jitsu. We had a [45:48] bunch of guys, Richie Martinez and Gio [45:49] Martinez, these guys that came into 10th [45:51] Planet way back in the early 2000s. And [45:55] um we were all like, "Oh [ __ ] break [45:57] dancing." Like we never even thought [45:59] gymnastics. Everybody knew like a guy [46:01] who could do gymnastics, a guy who's [46:03] like really good at tumbling, that kind [46:06] of explosive ability and balance and [46:07] control and body strength totally [46:10] translate to jiu-jitsu. Yeah. [46:11] >> But we didn't even think about it. Like [46:13] break dancing is kind of like a [46:15] gymnastics. You know, these dudes are [46:17] doing weird [ __ ] where they're on one [46:19] arm with their legs lotus position above [46:22] their head and they're hopping around on [46:23] one arm. That's crazy. [46:25] >> It It is cuz I try to do it and I'm [46:27] like, "Yeah, I can't do that." Eddie [46:28] started doing breakdancing practice as a [46:32] part of like strength and conditioning [46:33] training for jiu-jitsu. He started [46:35] trying break dancing move. Eddie's so [46:37] open-minded. He's always willing to like [46:40] try something out. Like thing about [46:42] Eddie's classes, too. If somebody [46:43] finishes somebody with something, Eddie [46:45] will like stop the class. What did you [46:47] do? And he's like, oh, I do this and I [46:49] grab my foot here and he's like, okay, [46:50] everybody look at this. Come over. Come [46:52] over. And he'll bring everybody over. [46:54] He'll show it to us. Show us how you set [46:55] it up. And he'll show them how he set it [46:57] up. and they go, "Who thinks they can [46:59] get out of this? Who thinks they got to [47:00] move to get out of this?" And then they [47:01] would all practice different ways to get [47:03] out of this. And they go, "Well, what if [47:04] a guy does this? What if a guy does [47:06] that?" And they break it down like he is [47:08] very very like open to new moves, you [47:12] know? It's it makes his classes very [47:14] interesting in that regard. [47:16] >> You you guys still train? [47:17] >> I don't I haven't trained in a while. I [47:19] was training with Gabe Tuttle out here [47:21] for a little bit, but my I got one knee, [47:24] man, that just keeps [ __ ] up. And I [47:26] do too many I like to do too many things [47:29] to want to go through another surgery. [47:31] Yeah. Or to deal with something. [47:32] >> I just don't want to It's like everybody [47:35] I know that gets to my age that still [47:37] trains gets a disc replacement, gets [47:40] another surgery, gets another surgery, [47:41] and then when you start getting like [47:43] back surgeries or like Matt Sarah just [47:45] got a knee replacement recently. You [47:47] start getting to that range, it's like, [47:48] "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, this shit's [47:52] forever." [47:53] >> Yeah. [47:53] >> Like you got to walk around. You got to [47:55] play with your kids. You got to be able [47:57] to go hiking. You got to be able to do [47:58] things. And if you break your body down, [48:02] especially through grappling. I still [48:04] hit the bag. I still still train like [48:07] kickboxing. I still do a lot of working [48:09] out. I work out constantly. But every [48:11] time I start doing jiu-jitsu again, my [48:13] knee starts throbbing. [48:16] >> Yeah. That's uh that's kind of similar [48:17] to Alqua. [48:20] Yeah. [48:20] >> Sucks. [48:22] Uh, I always I always go like I wonder [48:24] how much more he had in a tank. [48:26] >> Bro, he gave Kabib a hell of a fight on [48:28] no notice. [48:29] >> Yeah, [48:30] >> no notice. [48:31] >> And the Kabib fans don't give him any [48:32] credit for it. They go, he was playing [48:35] with him. I go, really? [48:37] >> Tell me one fighter who goes out there [48:39] and tells you that they're just going to [48:41] play with their opponent. [48:42] >> Prime time Al was a beast. Yeah, [48:44] >> he was a beast and he was tough as [ __ ] [48:47] in game, you know. Isn't he selling real [48:49] estate now? [48:50] >> Mhm. Shout out to Alaquenta. [48:52] >> Yeah, he's doing really well, man. We [48:54] were working together for a little bit, [48:56] but then it got to the point where I was [48:57] like, dude, I just don't have the time. [48:59] It's I got to make a decision. And [49:01] that's when I started doing the rum [49:02] company and everything. And you see how [49:04] fast time gets absorbed with things. [49:08] >> Yeah. [49:08] >> With everything. [49:09] >> Yeah. I wish I had multiple lives [49:12] >> so I could do multiple different things. [49:14] Multiple different lives. [49:16] >> You might be in another dimension. [49:18] >> Uh maybe. I would love to. But in this [49:20] dimension, I have too many interests. I [49:21] almost wish I didn't have as many things [49:23] that I love to do. I could whittle them [49:25] down to a few. [49:26] >> Yeah. You know, I I still wanna [49:30] I want to learn how you do your spinning [49:33] back kick. [49:35] >> I throw mine, but [49:37] >> I know you do yours a little bit of a [49:39] different way. I I remember the video [49:41] you did with GSP showing them how you do [49:43] yours. Um, but it's I like to spin. I [49:47] like to spin to win. Listen, if it [49:50] lands, the amount of torque that you get [49:51] on a spin is crazy. [49:53] >> It's It's not good. [49:55] >> What What do you do different than the [49:57] way I do it? [49:58] >> I don't know. I I know you supposed to [49:59] step, turn the heel, look over the [50:01] shoulder. You can jump as well. You [50:03] don't have to step it. All it The whole [50:05] thing is just getting it out in a [50:06] straight line. And the problem with most [50:09] people that didn't train like in a [50:10] classic taekwondo school is that they [50:12] it's a a circle. Circle can land. It can [50:16] land and it can be really powerful if it [50:17] lands, but it's not going to be as [50:19] powerful as the way I do it. The way I [50:21] do it is a turn and then it I always say [50:24] spinning back kick when I do commentary [50:26] because that everybody understands that. [50:28] But it's a turning sidekick is the way [50:30] we talked about it in Dwendo. It's a [50:32] turning sidekick. So the side [50:35] >> Yeah. I'm I'm getting maximum amount of [50:38] energy, maximum efficiency. It's the [50:40] difference between throwing a punch like [50:42] this. You can knock somebody out if you [50:44] throw a punch like this. It's like a [50:45] crazy arm punch and you could hurt him [50:47] and knock him out 100% of the time. And [50:49] you could do that once and say that's [50:50] the way to throw a punch. Or you could [50:53] learn how to throw a punch Tommy Hearn [50:55] style where you're [ __ ] turning your [50:57] body into it and you got all THAT TORQUE [50:59] AND BANG, it catches you on the end in a [51:01] straight line. Yeah. And Tommy would [51:03] just starch people with that or Deontay [51:05] Wilder, right? Straight straight down [51:07] the pipe. That's the difference between [51:09] a turning sidekick and when people spin [51:10] in a circle. So when you spin in a [51:12] circle, of course it's going to have [51:14] power. You have giant legs. Your your [51:16] legs carry your body around all day [51:18] long. You've got the you're pushing off [51:20] the other leg. You're spinning with all [51:21] your torso. Yeah, it's going to have [51:23] power, but it's not going to have as [51:24] much power as the way I do it. The way I [51:26] throw it, when it lands, it's [51:28] everything's going in a straight line [51:30] and I'm pushing off my back leg and I'm [51:32] getting all my abs into it, my hips into [51:34] it, and it's just straight just thud. [51:38] And I know that if I hit you with that, [51:40] you're going downhere. [51:42] >> You're going down. [51:43] >> You're going to the hospital. Like, [51:44] you're not gonna make it, man. [51:46] >> Dude, I saw you hit the bag and I was [51:48] like, "Holy [ __ ] that's a [ __ ] kick [51:50] and a half right there." [51:51] >> There's only one video of me online [51:53] fighting. It's from when I was 19. I was [51:55] at the US Cup in Connecticut and I hit [51:57] this dude with a spinning back kick and [51:59] sent him through the air. Sent him [52:00] flying through the air. And I knew the [52:03] moment I hit him, I'm like, "This [52:04] fight's over." I turned around, just [52:05] walked off casually. I I did cuz I would [52:08] like to do that like [ __ ] with people's [52:09] heads, but I do I knew that one move has [52:13] too much power for your body to absorb. [52:16] There's no way you can take it. It's [52:18] just too much. It's like getting hit by [52:20] a car. [52:21] >> It's nasty, man. It's a nasty kick. [52:23] >> Like when John landed on Stipe. [52:26] >> Yeah. [52:26] >> Just just caved his body in. Like Stipe [52:29] is one of the toughest human beings [52:30] that's ever walked the face of the [52:31] earth. But he takes that to the body. [52:33] like that's you're not going nowhere. [52:36] You're not going nowhere. And John's so [52:38] smart. Like John practiced that specific [52:40] technique because he was going up to [52:42] heavyweight. He was like, I need [52:43] something cuz I can't knock guys out [52:45] with one punch at heavyweight. I can [52:47] maybe kick them with but what's the most [52:50] powerful kick? And he realized it's the [52:51] spinning back kick. So he just drilled [52:53] it. So three days a week, that's all he [52:55] would do is just drill a spinning back [52:56] kick. This episode is sponsored by [52:58] BetterHelp. You've probably heard about [53:01] BetterHelp before, but maybe you haven't [53:03] heard from those who have actually used [53:06] BetterHelp. That feedback can tell you [53:08] everything you need to know. Go to [53:10] betterhelp.com/res [53:13] and check out the feedback from hundreds [53:15] of people saying how much they love this [53:17] service. It's easy to see why. To get [53:20] started, all you have to do is answer a [53:22] few questions. You'll get matched up [53:24] with a therapist based on your needs. [53:26] And if it's not the right fit, you can [53:28] switch therapists at any time. See the [53:31] reviews, see what stands out, and see if [53:34] BetterHelp is right for you. Visit [53:35] betterhelp.com/j. [53:39] That's betterhp.com/jre. [53:44] >> Yeah. And one thing about John, man, [53:46] he's such a like his IQ has always been [53:51] through the roof and [53:52] >> his fighting IQ is crazy. He understands [53:54] fighting and I think that's what sets [53:55] him apart from everybody else. He [53:57] understands himself. Like if you look at [53:59] him, he could go, I'm not probably gonna [54:01] knock anybody out of heavyweight with [54:03] the way I punch. So, [54:05] >> right, [54:05] >> develop something else and it worked. [54:07] And that's just reality. That's just the [54:08] reality of his frame. I mean, you know, [54:11] as much as well as anybody. It's weird [54:12] how some people can just punch. They're [54:15] like from the moment they get into the [54:16] gym, the first time they're hitting the [54:18] pads, like what the [ __ ] It's a natural [54:20] gift. Punching power is a weird natural [54:23] gift. [54:23] >> Yeah. [54:23] >> And either you have it or you don't. And [54:25] if you don't have it, you can only [54:27] develop it so much. [54:28] >> I'm still trying to figure out if I have [54:29] it. [54:32] >> It's physics, man. A lot of it is like [54:34] the size of your hands. [54:35] >> And my arms aren't they're long. [54:38] >> Yeah. [54:38] >> So, some of like a Tapora has like he's [54:40] not as long with his his uh [54:43] >> big ass fists, [54:44] >> but I always like imitate the Tapora and [54:47] then the Conor McGregor with a little [54:49] Tapora and his b B. [54:54] It is [ __ ] funny [ __ ] Well, Connor's [54:56] another example. Like big fists, man. [54:58] Look at that dude's fist. They're giant. [55:00] >> That's a big thing. [55:01] >> Yeah. I got a little uh these hands. [55:03] >> You got to do what you got to do. [55:04] >> These hands are meant for grabbing [55:06] things. [55:06] >> Yeah. Well, they're really good at that. [55:08] But that's the beautiful thing about MMA [55:10] as opposed to boxing. Like there's a [55:11] whole bunch of different ways to finish [55:12] a fight. [55:13] >> Yeah. What did you think about the fight [55:16] with Yousef before the fight happened? [55:19] like in terms of like uh I used to text [55:21] you like asking like your opinion like [55:23] what do you think uh you know um so I [55:26] was I'm curious to know what your [55:28] thoughts were before the fight obviously [55:29] hindsight um because I know what I [55:32] thought going into the fight [55:33] >> what did you think going into the fight [55:35] >> I thought it was going to probably be [55:36] one of the hardest fights for sure we've [55:39] trained together multiple times back in [55:41] 2017 we trained together a couple times [55:43] within the last two years and uh I [55:46] always knew he moved well on the feet [55:48] lateral footwork, great calf kicks, and [55:51] I I said to myself, if I get chopped [55:53] down with a couple of these calf kicks [55:55] early in the fight, it's going to be a [55:57] rough night, especially if I can't move [55:59] and do what I do, which is I'm also good [56:01] at lateral footwork. And he has those [56:03] nasty knees up the middle that are very [56:05] quick to end a fight or put you on [56:07] skates and could get you out of there, [56:08] right? And uh he did submit me that one [56:11] time, so I think that really gave him a [56:12] lot of confidence coming into it. So [56:15] those were my thoughts. I was like, for [56:16] me to win this, I got to stay on the [56:18] outside and then put pressure on him [56:19] when I could put pressure on him, take [56:21] away his calf kicks when I can. Um, by [56:23] putting him on the back foot, making it [56:24] a little bit more difficult to land that [56:26] calf kick with authority. Right. So, [56:28] that was my two cents on that. I knew if [56:30] I could take him down first, um, [56:34] it should go my way. [56:35] >> Well, it worked. Yeah, it was a little [56:40] easier than I thought it would have [56:43] been, but um [56:44] >> I think I think you're a different [56:46] beast. Yeah, I think you was tight. [56:49] >> Like I was like, "Hold on, I ain't [56:50] playing for this. I ain't playing for [56:51] this one." [56:51] >> Yeah, that was tight. Yeah, but you got [56:53] out of it. And I think you're a [56:54] different beast at 45, you know? I think [56:57] you just have more resilience at 45. [57:00] You're more durable at 45. [57:02] >> More energy, too. [57:03] >> Yeah, that's where it comes from, right? [57:05] It's again, I wish we could eliminate [57:08] weight cutting completely from fighting [57:10] and I've had conversations with the UFC [57:11] about doing it, but there's no real road [57:14] map that makes sense. I think once guys [57:16] get it ingrained in their head that [57:17] they're going to cut weight, they're [57:19] just always going to cut weight. They're [57:20] going to even if there is weight [57:22] classes, they're just going to fight [57:23] dehydrated. They're going to figure out [57:25] a way to be bigger. [57:27] >> I mean, we did it for wrestling and we [57:29] competed two hours later, sometimes an [57:31] hour. [57:32] >> I [57:32] >> But you're not getting punched and [57:33] kicked in the head. That's the [57:34] difference. [57:35] >> That's why that's why I feel if they did [57:38] same day weigh-ins, kind of like what [57:40] you do for an amateur, [57:42] >> you can get as big as you can get, which [57:43] is going to be very little, maybe five [57:45] pounds. [57:46] >> So, I go same day weigh-ins, you give [57:47] them four hours, so this way they can [57:49] eat, have a nice meal, digest, and then [57:51] they can still warm up and have a enough [57:53] time to prepare for the fight. [57:55] >> Um, [57:55] >> I think for the fighter's own safety, [57:57] you almost have to protect them from [57:58] that. And that's why they have the weigh [58:00] in the day before for their own safety [58:02] because they're there's guys that are [58:03] just gonna be stupid and the fights are [58:05] going to suffer. They're not going to be [58:06] as good because you're going to be more [58:08] depleted. [58:09] >> I just I just think there's going to be [58:12] people that understand you can't cut 20 [58:14] pounds [58:17] the day of the fight and go and compete. [58:19] I think that's going to be the end like [58:21] the end all be all. like you're going to [58:22] come to the realization like hey [58:24] >> they'll just lose and then it'll weed [58:26] out the people that are doing that [58:27] >> and then they'll go okay so that didn't [58:29] work [58:29] >> right [58:30] >> I have to go up in the weight class and [58:31] this makes more sense for me [58:33] >> wouldn't it be better if we look we have [58:35] random drug tests right they just show [58:38] how many times you've been randomly drug [58:40] tested [58:41] >> um with USADA probably a lot um I know [58:45] they have it on the website you could [58:46] check how many times people have been [58:47] tested and whatnot so it's just random [58:49] now imagine if they did random random [58:51] weigh-ins fans. [58:53] >> That'd be cool. [58:54] >> Yeah. But then the problem would be what [58:56] happens the day of the fight? [58:57] >> That's, [58:58] >> you know, like what do you what if the [58:59] guy doesn't make weight? [59:00] >> Yeah. [59:01] >> Yeah. What if you have a giant [59:02] pay-per-view or a giant numbered card? [59:04] Is that dead? [59:05] >> Oh, you have a giant numbered card and [59:08] the guy doesn't cut weight or doesn't [59:10] doesn't make weight. What do you do? Do [59:12] you still have the fight? [59:14] >> I mean, we have the fight now. [59:16] >> Yeah. [59:16] >> So, like, [59:17] >> but I mean, [59:17] >> what changes? It would be different if [59:19] you only had a cut a few pounds though. [59:21] Like if it's So if you did it that way, [59:23] random weigh-ins and then weigh in day [59:25] of the fight. [59:28] Even if a guy was heavy, like you [59:30] weighed in, you know, 137 or whatever, [59:32] you're like, "Well, you got to lose two [59:33] pounds." Anybody can lose two pounds the [59:36] day of, and it's not that big a deal. [59:37] >> Yeah. [59:38] >> If you're not cutting weight already. [59:39] >> Yeah. [59:40] >> Yeah. If you're not cutting weight [59:41] already and you're fully hydrated and [59:43] you weigh in the scale at 137, 135 is [59:45] easy. or just penalize them the same way [59:47] we penalize them now. [59:49] >> You guys are just going to take the [59:50] penalty and fight bigger. [59:51] >> But it's like you're already you're like [59:53] for me if we did same day weigh-ins I [59:57] would have to fight at 155 pounds. [60:00] There's no way possibly even 170 because [60:03] that's the weight class. 165 would be [60:05] the sweet spot where it's like this is [60:07] nice. I don't have to cut. [60:08] >> I'm probably going to fight guys more [60:09] than likely my size [60:11] >> and uh I'm going to feel good. I'm going [60:12] to have the energy to compete and I'm [60:14] not dehydrating myself severely. Or 155 [60:18] where I could diet a little bit. I can [60:19] still get down. I hold myself for a [60:21] meal. Step on the scale. I can have my [60:23] meal. Now I feel good. I go compete. But [60:25] I'm not dieting all the way down to 135 [60:28] lbs, 145 lbs. [60:30] >> So that's a 10 pound gap. You you see [60:33] what I'm saying? So that's why I think [60:34] the same day it makes sense because [60:36] you're not as depleted where it wouldn't [60:38] be as severe in comparison to what we're [60:40] doing now. I think that would be smart, [60:43] but I think the only way that's really [60:44] going to happen is if you have more [60:46] weight classes, like at least every 10 [60:48] pounds. I mean, look at boxing. Boxing [60:51] has so many more weight classes than the [60:52] UFC. Like, how many weight classes are [60:54] there in boxing? [60:55] >> Too many. [60:56] >> There's a lot. There's a lot. [60:57] >> Like every three pounds sometimes. [60:59] >> Well, the lighter weights, right? When [61:01] you get down to like atom weight and [61:03] straw weight and fly weight, like their [61:05] fly weights are [ __ ] tiny, you know? [61:08] Like their banttom weight is what? It's [61:11] not 135. [61:12] >> It's lower. [61:13] >> Yeah, it's like 126 or something. What's [61:16] banttom weight? 118. That's crazy. [61:19] >> Minimum weight. That's crazy. Imagine [61:21] telling a lady that in the bar. What do [61:23] you do when I fight? What weight do you [61:25] fight at? Minimum weight. [61:29] >> I never even heard of that. [61:30] >> Minimum weight is crazy. [61:32] >> Yeah. I mean, but this is also why Manny [61:34] Pacquiao was able to go up and win world [61:37] championships in eight different weight [61:38] classes, which is [ __ ] bananas, [61:41] >> which is cool, though. [61:42] >> It's crazy. [61:43] >> But, so go back to that again, please. [61:47] >> So, look at the difference in the gaps [61:49] when you get to the top. You got 122 to [61:52] 126, only 4 lb. 130, another six lb. 35, [61:57] another five lb. It's kind of random. [61:59] Five more pounds to 40. F seven pounds [62:02] to welterweight 47. That's another [62:04] stupid thing that we do where we have uh [62:08] you have welterweight in boxing which [62:11] has existed since the beginning of time [62:12] and it's always been 147. Sugar Ray [62:15] Leonard, Tommy Hearns, all those people. [62:18] Roberto Duran 147. Our welterweight 170. [62:21] Like it doesn't even make any sense. [62:23] >> Come up with another name. [62:25] >> Yeah. [62:25] >> What's a welterweight? You just It's [62:27] something somebody made up. Doesn't even [62:28] make sense. I just think we're we're [62:30] like the Americans versus the Europeans. [62:32] We just want to go against the grain. [62:35] Like we have inches instead of [62:38] centimeters. Like what we use in metrics [62:40] and pounds versus kilos. Like we just we [62:43] just said [ __ ] everything you're doing. [62:44] We're going to do everything different. [62:46] We're just going to challenge everything [62:47] that you're doing. [62:48] >> There's a little of that, too. But I [62:49] think they just wanted recognizable [62:51] names when they came up with weight [62:52] classes [62:54] because remember there was only two at [62:55] one point in time. Was it lightweight [62:58] and I don't remember but when when Frank [63:01] Shamrock was fighting in his day [63:04] >> it was like 200. Yeah. [63:05] >> He fought at 200 and then there was uh [63:09] heavyweight. [63:11] >> So I Yeah. I don't even know. I don't [63:13] know what those weight class I used to [63:15] watch but I didn't know [ __ ] I just [63:17] watched. [63:18] >> I think it should just be the number you [63:19] weigh. It should be fighting the world [63:21] champion at 170 pounds. That's what it [63:23] should be. Like wrestling doesn't have [63:24] names for the weight classes. No, [63:27] >> you just have weights. [63:28] >> Just have weights. [63:30] >> That's what it should be. Like this is [63:31] stupid. The [ __ ] is a welterweight? [63:34] >> What the [ __ ] is a straw weight? What's [63:35] an atom weight? [63:37] >> You know, shut up. What's a flyweight? [63:39] [ __ ] off. You know, you don't weigh a [63:41] flyways. This is stupid. Flyweight's a [63:44] dumb name. [63:46] >> The 125 pound champion of the world. [63:48] >> Minimum weight is a ridiculous name. [63:51] >> Ridiculous. Nobody wants to be minimum [63:53] weight. I'd rather fight fat. [63:56] Minimum weight. I never even knew that [63:58] was a thing until just now. [64:00] >> Yeah, it's probably tiny little dudes. [64:03] There's a few dudes that fight in uh [64:05] atom weight in uh 1 FC in their [64:08] kickboxing division that are wild, man. [64:10] It's incredible to watch. They're so [64:13] fast. It's like they're defying space [64:14] and time, you know, and they're super [64:17] skillful. [64:18] >> Yeah. There was there was the one guy I [64:20] saw the Japanese fighter. [64:24] No, not Japanese fighter. The guy doing [64:25] a Muay Thai, the um Well, there is a [64:27] Japanese fighter. The guy in Ryzen who [64:29] fought Apache Mix. [64:31] >> Oh yeah, dude. That dude's a beast. [64:33] >> The [ __ ] was that? [64:34] >> That dude was a beast. [64:35] >> I was like, "This guy's been hiding over [64:37] here the whole time and the world [64:38] doesn't know who this man is. This guy [64:40] is a savage." [64:41] >> Yeah, he he lit Patchy on fire. [64:44] >> That was incredible. Patty's not a [64:45] striker, [64:46] >> but he's competent enough. [64:48] >> Yeah. [64:49] >> But that was like he exposed like [64:51] everything, every flaw that he has as a [64:53] standup guy. He took full advantage of [64:55] it. I was like, dude, this guy's [64:56] fighting like he's in the matrix right [64:57] now. [64:58] >> There's a bunch of those guys that exist [65:00] out there in the world now. You know, [65:02] it's it's a different world that we live [65:03] in. [65:04] >> The Dagy Standing guy, I think that's a [65:07] lot of them. There's a lot of them. [65:08] There's the the guy who fights in the [65:10] PFL, Mega Med, uh who's [ __ ] nasty, [65:13] man. And he fights exactly like the guy [65:16] who I think might be the best striker in [65:18] the world who's just a Muay Thai guy, [65:20] Azadulla Immanazalv. [65:21] >> I think that's the guy. [65:22] >> Yeah, [65:23] >> I can't say that, [65:24] >> bro. [65:25] >> I can't say that. [65:26] >> It's a tough one to say. Um that guy is [65:28] nasty, but this this guy Magomedov, did [65:30] you see the PFL? [65:32] >> I didn't get to watch it uh last [65:34] weekend. [65:34] >> He fought uh in the PFL and he fights [65:37] just like Iman Gazalev and they're both [65:39] from Dagistan. So guarantee you these [65:41] guys are training together. That was the [65:43] one last weekend, right? [65:44] >> Uhhuh. [65:44] >> Yeah. We had one guy on that card. His [65:46] name is Levon. He's nasty from uh Oetia, [65:51] >> the Caucus Regions. [65:53] >> Um but he's he's a nasty striker. [65:56] There's so many of those guys right now [65:58] that are coming up that no one knows and [66:00] they're world class. They're like elite [66:03] world class fighters and no one knows [66:04] who they are. It's kind of crazy. [66:06] >> Yeah. It's like the amount of like world [66:09] championship caliber potential world [66:12] championship caliber fighters out there [66:14] never been higher. [66:15] >> Imagine talking [ __ ] to that guy. [66:19] >> All because you didn't know who he was [66:20] and you're just like [ __ ] [66:22] >> It's a problem out there in the world [66:24] right now. There's so many guys who [66:25] could fight as opposed to [66:26] >> be nice. Just be nice. Just be nice. [66:28] >> Don't talk [ __ ] Yeah, don't talk [ __ ] [66:30] Everything will be okay. [66:31] >> Yeah. I mean, how hard is it? [66:33] >> So, tell me what you think about this [66:34] weekend. Islam versus Ian Garry. So, [66:40] what's fascinating about this matchup is [66:42] how well Ian Garry can control the [66:45] range. [66:48] >> I think he's going to be much bigger [66:49] than Islam in a sense of height, reach [66:52] advantage. [66:53] >> Um, in terms of size, I never thought [66:55] Ian was the biggest welterweight. I [66:57] still don't think he is. [66:58] >> Well, he can't be. He's so tall. He [66:59] can't be thick. No, but in a sense even [67:02] when you're talking just from a weight [67:04] standpoint, from what he was walking [67:05] around at, right? I forgot what he told [67:06] me he walked around at, but it wasn't [67:08] cutting a whole lot of weight. I want to [67:10] say off the top of my head, maybe 10 [67:11] pounds, [67:12] >> which is why he's so healthy and he has [67:14] such energy. [67:15] >> So I go, you're cutting just this and [67:18] you're going out there and doing this to [67:19] these guys who are, you know, [67:21] essentially bigger, heavier guys. Um, [67:24] but he's got the speed advantage. Uh, [67:26] the thing about Islam, he's such a [67:27] complete fighter. He could do [67:29] everything, but this will be the first [67:31] time he's got a a test with a guy who's [67:34] a long man. And can he get inside, take [67:36] him down? I don't think he's going to [67:38] stand up and strike with him. He can, [67:40] but I just don't think that's the path [67:41] to victory against a guy like Ian. [67:43] >> I don't think he has any plans of [67:45] standing up and striking with him other [67:46] than as a means to an end. [67:47] >> Yeah. [67:48] >> And and his grappling is so high level. [67:51] >> His Islam's grappling right now is at [67:54] the top of the food chain. I always want [67:56] to grapple with those guys just to see [67:58] where I'm at. [67:59] >> You should go over there. [68:00] >> Um I remember when Al fought Khabib and [68:04] Al might have been like the only guy who [68:06] was able to like escape certain [68:09] positions multiple times where most guys [68:11] they kind of just concede the feet and [68:13] they just fold. [68:14] >> Um and we were talking afterwards. He [68:17] goes like I think you would actually do [68:20] really well grappling with him. I'm like [68:22] bro trying to get me killed right now. [68:26] He tried to get me killed by the bear. [68:28] But um whenever when he said that, it [68:30] kind of stuck with me. I'm like, man, I [68:32] just from my own like experience, not [68:34] like a ego thing or anything like that. [68:36] Just be cool to see and I would like for [68:38] them to put it on me just so I can see [68:40] like where I'm at. See if I'm how my [68:42] strength measures up with theirs [68:43] positionally. Um IQ, knowing when to [68:46] transition to certain spots. Of course, [68:47] the weight's going to play a big [68:48] advantage, but it's still cool cuz I [68:50] grapple with bigger guys. I grapple with [68:52] Wyman. And I always tell Chris like I [68:54] wish we were the same size because you [68:55] would have been my main training partner [68:56] bro you know because and that would have [68:58] been cool like kind of coming up that [69:00] way. Um but you know obviously Morab was [69:03] my guy, Al was my guy, Dennis. [69:05] >> Well having Morab as a training partner [69:07] must have been an awesome advantage. [69:09] >> Oh it's the greatest. This is like [69:11] there's no there's no replicating that. [69:16] And I see guys [69:18] outside of like they'll watch and [69:20] they'll think like, you know, he's kind [69:23] of like all over the place. He's not [69:24] really. And then they'll go in there [69:26] with him and go, uh, you're feels a [69:29] little different now that you've been in [69:31] there with the guy. It's it's a whole [69:33] different beast to watch from the [69:34] outside. You're like, what is he [69:35] actually good at? But it's just like the [69:37] chaos that he brings. Always constantly [69:40] challenging your nervous system. U [69:42] reacting to his faints, his movement. [69:43] He's just he's just always giving you [69:45] something to think about. And I remember [69:48] GSP talked about that just saying like [69:50] you want to use your faints to challenge [69:51] the nervous system, get guys to react [69:53] because eventually you start to slow [69:55] like in the beginning we're we're quick [69:57] twitchy, right? We can react to [69:58] everything. We're super sharp. [70:00] >> As time starts to go on, those reaction [70:02] time starts to go a little bit slower. [70:04] You don't react as fast or as quickly. [70:07] And [70:09] things that were landing weren't landing [70:11] are now landing. for us talks about that [70:13] a lot. Yeah. I think that's where George [70:14] got it. [70:15] >> Yes. [70:15] >> For us, very smart dude. [70:17] >> So, [70:18] >> very smart dude when it comes to like [70:19] strategy and understanding like what's [70:23] going on with fighters and why they're [70:25] reacting to certain things and what to [70:27] do and how to counter. [70:29] It's not guesswork. It's like a ver a [70:31] really intelligent [70:34] structured system of what to do. [70:36] >> Yeah. You have to be like that. [70:38] >> Yeah. I think some guys they train and [70:40] then they go and fight without any [70:44] goal in mind. And I tried to preach this [70:47] because I used to coach at Longo a lot [70:49] before um you know running a lot of my [70:51] own practices, training camps and stuff [70:52] like that. So, I took over the the role [70:54] of, you know what, we're going to add [70:56] these two MMA classes in, and when we [70:59] come in, we're going to work on specific [71:00] things for my fight and anybody who has [71:02] a fight, and if I'm not fighting, we're [71:03] going to focus on you guys. And even if [71:04] I have a fight, we'll also work in [71:06] positions that you guys need to work on. [71:09] And I always try to explain to guys like [71:11] when you're coming in, you should have a [71:12] mission. Don't just waste an hour, hour [71:15] and a half of training just to say, "I [71:17] trained." That's cool if you don't have [71:18] a fight, but you should always be [71:20] looking for something to get better at, [71:21] something that you can improve at. When [71:23] you're sparring, hey, you're not just [71:24] going in there to spar. There should be [71:26] an intent. Your sparring partner should [71:28] be looking to give you a look for the [71:30] fight. And you shouldn't be looking to [71:31] be a complete [ __ ] and kill your [71:33] sparring partner because then nobody [71:35] wants to spar with you, right? They're [71:37] doing you a favor and you need the favor [71:39] from them to get where you want to be to [71:41] make sure all the things that you're [71:42] drilling on the pads, drilling with your [71:43] partners one-on-one. And then when you [71:44] go into sparring and putting it [71:46] together, pull it from 100%, pull it [71:48] down to like 70. This way you can work [71:50] in real time. I call it guided [71:51] discovery. I learned this at uh Sunni [71:54] Courtland when I was studying to be a PE [71:56] major. I did [71:56] >> guided discovery. [71:58] >> Yeah. So you're you're working on [72:00] certain things and um say we're doing [72:03] wrestling and you're learning the [72:05] position. And I show you a high crotch. [72:06] You grab the the tricep or you post it. [72:09] You shoot the high crotch, which means [72:10] your head is on the outside. And I [72:12] attack the leg. Two hands are now locked [72:14] on that outside leg. My head is on the [72:16] outside. And I'm in a strong position. [72:18] My posture straight. And now you're [72:20] learning defense. Okay. So, from a [72:23] defensive position, a guy shoots this [72:25] shot super clean, super perfect. What [72:27] are my choices that I can make? What are [72:30] the options? I could turn the head to [72:32] the inside, stuff the head. I could push [72:33] the head further outside and stuff the [72:35] head to the outside where his head [72:37] already is and look to cut the corner. [72:39] Or I could use my stuff the head and use [72:41] my my whizzer or tight waist plugging [72:43] the the hip stuffing the head and [72:44] rotating my hips. And if he puts me down [72:47] to the mat, what is my responses from [72:48] that? So then you're chaining everything [72:50] together and you got you kind of got a [72:52] system of my responses. So I'm not just [72:55] doing stuff based on instinct. Instinct [72:57] is good, but you should also have [72:59] instinctual [73:00] habits, if that makes sense. It's like [73:03] stuff that you know will work [73:04] >> and then you fine-tune it to know this [73:07] is my line of defense. If he goes here [73:08] and I feel him going this way, I go this [73:10] way. And if he's starting to turn the [73:11] other way, then I know I need to do this [73:13] and turn his head the other way, put my [73:15] pressure or my weight um in another [73:17] position so that I can now create this [73:19] space so I can escape and get my leg [73:21] out, [73:21] >> right? [73:22] >> And a lot of guys, they're they're not [73:23] trained like that. They go in, they're [73:24] sparring, they're just throwing a bunch [73:25] of punches. Maybe they're throwing set [73:27] combos that they hit on the pads. But [73:29] how are you setting it up? Are you [73:31] fainting, moving him towards the cage, [73:33] looking for the the gap where the [73:35] octagon kind of changes where it's no [73:37] longer like a flat surface and it's [73:39] cutting at an angle where you take away [73:40] a little real estate and then you're [73:42] trapping them where there's not a lot of [73:44] room for them to get back from. But now [73:46] you can set up your strikes and know [73:47] where you're trying to go. But if I'm [73:49] cutting him off and he constantly does [73:50] this and he maybe juke steps me and goes [73:53] back the other direction, I'm starting [73:54] my combination now. He's gone. So, it's [73:56] like how do you set up all these things [73:59] that you know exactly where you want to [74:01] go because he's going to have an option [74:03] in the fight in real time, but in [74:05] training is where you should be working [74:06] out the kinks and understanding this. [74:08] And I I truly feel this is one of the [74:11] things I done so well early on in my [74:14] career and why I was teaching the class [74:16] because I felt like the guys needed it. [74:18] I was taking these guys down at will. [74:20] There was no resistance. I'm like, I'm [74:22] good, but how good am I actually? [74:25] because these guys just they just don't [74:26] know. They don't have the information. [74:28] Okay, let's level them up. Now these [74:30] guys are leveled up. It makes it harder [74:32] for me. Now I have to improve what I'm [74:34] doing and I have to bring a different [74:36] approach. Okay, he knows how to do this [74:38] now. So when I do this, I can't just get [74:40] a easy takedown where I'm just going to [74:41] sit him to his butt. He's now [74:43] challenging me with the wizzer stuff in [74:44] my head, breaking my posture. Now I'm [74:46] elongated. I'm on the ground. Maybe I'm [74:48] on both knees. How do I readjust? Post [74:50] my hand. Get height again. attacking the [74:52] legs, taking them back the other way or [74:54] coming through the middle through the [74:55] crotch and finishing a taked down like [74:57] what we call some people call it Iranian [74:59] or we call it a all-American finish but [75:02] there's just so many little nuances and [75:03] I feel in MMA people are still training [75:07] just to train and I think that's the [75:09] difference between understanding your [75:11] timing you know the same moves but if I [75:14] know it faster if I know how to react [75:15] faster than you I'm going to win that [75:17] position or the situation every single [75:19] time unless you throw caution to the [75:21] wind and it's just some random wild card [75:23] that I just get caught by which if I'm [75:25] aware it should the chances of that [75:28] should be very very low. [75:29] >> Well, that's the benefit of teaching the [75:31] people that you're training with [75:31] everything you know. That way you must [75:34] come up with a new solution and you're [75:36] forcing it. Not everything. Everything. [75:38] What do you hold back? What do you hold [75:40] back? [75:40] >> Not everything. [75:42] >> Get close. [75:45] But that's also world champion mindset [75:47] versus someone who's just a fighter who [75:49] fights and does well and is a good [75:51] fighter. But there's so many times where [75:53] I watch guys fight and um I watch [75:56] exchanges and they're wading towards [75:58] each other and throwing bombs at each [75:59] other and one guy wins and one guy [76:01] loses. But I'm like this is not the [76:05] ultimate way to do this. This is a you [76:07] can do it. You can be a a battering ram [76:09] and a blunt force object and you can get [76:11] it done. You know, we've seen so many [76:13] fights that have just been insane first [76:15] round wars. And then we've seen guys [76:18] that just are slick and they're moving [76:20] around and switching stances and doing [76:22] wild [ __ ] that you don't expect and [76:24] overwhelming the the other guy's nervous [76:26] system and and not getting hit and and [76:29] doing things where you're like, "Oh my [76:30] god, that's so sweet. That's so smooth." [76:32] And those are the guys that are going to [76:34] excel and those are the guys that going [76:35] to really take it to the next level. [76:37] >> Yeah. And I think when you're talking [76:39] about all these guys like the Caucus [76:41] guys, these Dagistani guys, these so [76:43] many guys that are coming up right now [76:45] that are so [ __ ] high level, like you [76:48] can't have any flaws in your game [76:50] anymore. You can't just be a guy who [76:52] wades at someone and tries to throw [76:54] bombs and hopes they land. May maybe [76:56] that works on a regional scene. Maybe [76:58] that works with training partners that [77:00] are a lower level than you. But you're [77:02] going to get pieced up if you fight [77:03] someone who's really good. [77:05] There's levels and levels and levels and [77:08] the levels are changing all the time. [77:10] The levels are moving up all the time. [77:12] If you just go back to the Ultimate [77:14] Fighter season 1, that's 2005. That's [77:17] not that long ago in regular sports. [77:19] 2005 boxers look pretty similar to 2026 [77:23] boxers. Yeah. You know, pretty [ __ ] [77:25] similar at the World Championship level. [77:27] >> And MMA, man, there's no comparison. [77:29] It's nuts. [77:30] >> Night and day. [77:31] >> Night and day. And these guys are [77:33] getting better all the time. I see guys [77:35] coming off the Contender Series. I'm [77:37] like, "Okay, this guy looks like a world [77:39] champion." Like right now, [77:40] >> it's crazy. [77:41] >> That Ethan Euing kid, that guy comes out [77:44] of nowhere. [77:45] >> Matrix [77:46] >> and and he's fighting so smooth and so [77:48] slick and so intelligent and the [77:51] footwork and the faints and the movement [77:53] and knowing what to do at any given time [77:55] and you're like, "These guys are just so [77:58] good now. They're so good." I was bummed [78:00] out when he got hurt for that fight with [78:02] Farah. [78:03] >> Yeah, that was a bummer. [78:04] >> Farah did have a tough fight though, but [78:06] >> I was curious to see how that one was [78:08] going to go because Ian to me is the [78:11] dark horse in that division right now. [78:12] >> Ethan, [78:13] >> easily. [78:13] >> Yeah. [78:14] >> Um, [78:14] >> yeah, he's the Wellmaker fight was a big [78:16] wakeup call to people and then he fought [78:18] that Brazilian cat and just lit him on [78:21] fire. [78:21] >> Two undefeated guys back to back [78:23] >> and it's the way he did it too, man. was [78:25] so slick [78:27] >> and you realize like there are levels [78:28] and these guys coming up right now, [78:30] they're already at a level that's above [78:32] and beyond world championship level of [78:34] 15 years ago. [78:35] >> Yeah, [78:36] >> it's crazy. [78:37] >> Two fights in the UFC [78:39] >> and you know 20 years ago you would have [78:41] said he was the GOAT. [78:43] >> But it it what's fascinating is like [78:45] from a striking standpoint you could see [78:47] that and look at a guy and go this guy [78:49] is the real deal. But then you kind of [78:52] wonder like, well, what happens later in [78:53] the rounds if a guy does take him down [78:55] and how can he adjust to those takedowns [78:58] in terms of a cardio standpoint, lactic [79:00] acid buildup, can he turn it around and [79:02] still be as efficient, as effective, [79:04] >> right? [79:05] >> So, there's so many like variables when [79:07] it comes to things like that. And when [79:09] people are game planning and approaching [79:11] fights, those are the things I like to [79:13] think about. First round, everyone is [79:15] dangerous. Everyone is so skilled, but [79:17] it's like, okay, if I can get out of the [79:19] first round, what does the fight start [79:20] to look like? How do I paint the [79:22] picture? If it goes in this direction, [79:24] he's able to get off a couple of these [79:25] things and I'm beating up a little bit. [79:27] What are my what are my fallback [79:30] defenses to try to [79:31] >> turn the tide a little bit and get it [79:34] back to going where the ball's now back [79:36] in my court? Well, that was why I was so [79:38] interested in seeing what happens in the [79:40] Conor McGregor Max Holloway fight, [79:44] >> which was [79:46] crazy that that the the result was [79:48] ridiculous, but take that away. Um, I [79:52] was interested because I was like, if [79:54] Connor can't take him out quickly, Max [79:58] Holloway does not get tired. He does not [80:00] get tired and he's so accustomed to that [80:03] five round pace. He understands when to [80:06] hit the gas, when to back off. He knows [80:08] when to move, when to And he's always [80:10] moving and side. It's like you want to [80:13] talk about getting overwhelmed like Max [80:15] Holloway overwhelms people with [80:16] pressure, pace, and faints and skill. [80:18] >> Yeah. [80:19] >> And he's not going anywhere. You you [80:21] guarantee he's going to be fighting in [80:23] the fourth round just like he was [80:25] fighting in the first round. He's not [80:26] going to fade. [80:29] >> It's wor one of the worst matchups for [80:32] Connor if he couldn't take him out of [80:34] the first round. [80:35] >> I was I was hoping we got to see more. I [80:38] think the world was hoping to see. [80:39] >> You were hoping we got to see anything. [80:41] We didn't see anything. [80:43] >> But it's it's crazy because he threw [80:44] that same kick in the back room, but [80:46] this time he runs at him and he throws [80:47] it. He lands and it's like, "Oh god." [80:49] >> Well, he threw that kick when you're [80:51] hitting a pad is very different than [80:54] when you're kicking the air. You never [80:56] throw that kick in the air. You throw [80:58] that kick jumping in the air, the amount [81:00] of torque that is on your supporting leg [81:01] is bananas. You're just hoping and [81:04] praying that your knee stays together. [81:07] Look, if you throw a jumping sidekick, [81:09] that's a different thing. You're landing [81:11] on the ground. You're landing in a [81:13] linear way, right? When you're rotating [81:15] and kicking and flying through the air [81:17] at the same time and your opponent [81:19] adjusts. So, you're trying to like [81:20] change the arc in in midair, try to [81:22] catch him as he's circling off. [81:25] It's the worst kick to jump and throw. [81:28] >> So, I got to stop doing that with [81:30] jumping roundhouse kicks. Jumping [81:32] roundhouse kicks are great if you're [81:34] close enough to land them. Yeah. You [81:36] know, [81:36] >> if you're close enough to land them. Who [81:38] was that guy that landed it on Bonfam? [81:41] Uh, no, not on Bonfam. On um on James [81:43] Vic in Karate Combat. Did you see that? [81:47] >> Uh, [81:47] >> he throws that jumping switch kick. [81:49] >> Brazilian guy. [81:50] >> Yes. [81:51] >> I forget his name. [81:53] >> Uh, Gabriel. [81:54] >> The turn. What is his name? Alves. [81:56] Raphael Alves. Bro, it was one of the [81:59] worst KOs I've ever seen in my life. [82:02] >> You've seen [82:02] >> Why is James Vic still fighting? [82:04] >> He likes fighting, I guess. [82:05] >> Oh, he's only 37. I'm 37. My bad, bro. [82:08] >> He's had a lot of KOs. [82:09] >> My bad, cuz [82:10] >> unfortunately. And this dude, he hit him [82:12] with this this jumping just right before [82:15] that. [82:16] >> But he looks like a tank compared to [82:17] him. [82:18] >> Well, it's just the his speed is crazy. [82:21] James Zick is tall and very skillful, [82:23] too. But it's just this kick would have [82:26] knocked him out at any point in his [82:27] career. Any point in his career and any [82:29] human being. Like, this is too much. [82:31] This the the amount of force that he [82:33] lands when he lands this kick. when he [82:35] throws that, he throws the jumping [82:37] roundhouse kick, touches him with the [82:39] right leg, and then comes up top with [82:41] the left and just clean across the chin. [82:46] >> They're doing some good stuff at Karate [82:47] Combat. [82:48] >> Yeah, man. Roellis was fighting there [82:50] right before that, Jamie. [82:52] >> I think a little further ahead go to [82:54] like right below before where the [82:56] Brazilian flag is. [82:58] >> Reella's combined fights in u Karate [83:00] Combat was like what less than two [83:02] minutes. [83:03] >> I know it just There it is. There it is. [83:05] So, let's watch that again. Back it up [83:07] again. So, watch how he throws it. Boom. [83:09] I mean, it is clean. Shin to the jaw. I [83:12] mean, there's no [83:14] >> Why is he pointing at him? [83:15] >> I don't know. He's [83:16] >> talking [ __ ] [83:18] >> Now he's bowing and praying. [83:19] >> Well, I mean, he realized after it was [83:21] over how serious it was. So, watch this. [83:23] Touches him with the right and then the [83:24] left comes. I mean, it's literally [83:26] perfect. That probably would have KOed [83:28] him at any point in time in his career. [83:30] And when James has been in the amount of [83:32] wars that he's been in [83:34] >> and your head hits the canvas is the [83:36] worst. [83:37] >> Oh, he was he could have died. That was [83:38] one of those ones where he could have [83:40] died [83:41] >> because I think he was in the intensive [83:43] care for quite a while after this fight. [83:46] >> Really? [83:46] >> Yeah. He was hospitalized for quite a [83:48] while after this fight and I think it [83:49] was pretty s pretty serious. [83:51] >> That sucks. [83:51] >> It was a bad headkick. That was a bad [83:53] one. [83:54] >> It's a rough sport. [83:54] >> It's a rough sport and there's times [83:56] >> you don't play fighting. [83:57] >> You don't play. There's times where guys [83:59] get KO'ed and they're never the same [84:00] again. You know, like Terry Edom when [84:02] Eden Barbosa hit him with that wheel [84:04] kick. [84:04] >> Yeah. [84:05] >> Terry Edam was a real contender before [84:07] that fight and we never really saw him [84:09] after that. He never really achieved [84:11] those levels again. [84:12] >> I don't even Did he even fight after [84:14] that? I don't Maybe once [84:15] >> maybe, maybe. I don't know. I'm not [84:17] sure. But that fight essentially ended [84:19] his career cuz it was so I mean and [84:22] again that's one of those kicks the the [84:24] wheel kick has so much torque, [84:26] >> bro. I I remember my fight with Marlin [84:29] and [84:30] I thought I was going to be one of those [84:32] guys. I was so [84:35] like I don't say paranoid but nervous, [84:37] concerned, any adjective that you could [84:40] use to describe it. I was just like man [84:42] >> after the fight. [84:43] >> After the fight [84:44] >> of getting hit like that again. [84:45] >> Yeah. Yeah. [84:46] >> Not even getting hit like that again. If [84:47] I could even take a shot. And mind you, [84:51] I I have my phys degree. I could have [84:53] went just been a gym teacher. I would [84:55] have been summers off pension. I would [84:57] have had health insurance the whole [84:59] nine. And I decided to chase a crazy [85:01] dream. Thankfully, it worked out and um [85:04] I'm blessed for this life and um all [85:06] that good stuff. But after that fight, [85:09] man, to tell you like the concern I had [85:12] if I would be able to make another two [85:16] paychecks. I was like, I'm going to do [85:17] one more. Whatever happens happens. If I [85:19] get knocked out, I'm just done. I gave [85:21] it a good shot. I rolled the dice. [85:22] Thanks for coming. see you later. Thanks [85:24] for the memories. But um thankfully it [85:27] worked out and I was able to keep on [85:29] pushing. Remember after that fight, I [85:30] didn't spar for like three months. And [85:33] the next fight I had with [85:35] >> A lot of people think you should take [85:36] even more time off than that. [85:37] >> I needed the money. And that's the [85:39] shitty part about this this gig. [85:42] >> You need the money, you need the money. [85:44] I'm living in New York at the time, so [85:45] Long Island's [ __ ] expensive. And I'm [85:49] subbing as a teacher. I'm coaching, [85:51] wrestling. And when the training camp [85:54] came up, I was fighting Brett John's [85:55] undefeated, three and0 in the UFC. Just [85:57] came off a 30 second cast slicer slicer [86:00] submission over Joe Sto. Mind you, Joe [86:02] Sto submitted me probably I think five [86:05] times in five minutes. So I'm looking at [86:07] this guy like this guy is a wizard. You [86:09] know what I mean? So this is my [86:10] perception of him going into this fight. [86:11] And I told the guys, hey, I'm going to [86:13] spar these last three, four weeks. [86:15] >> I'm gonna I'm gonna just circle and I'm [86:18] going to wrestle. was like, "You guys [86:19] try to hit me, but just know I'm I don't [86:21] want to get hit in the head, but try to [86:23] hit me. I I still want to have like my [86:25] awareness." But the whole that whole [86:27] last three, four weeks, everything was [86:29] just grappling before that, striking, [86:31] hitting pads, cardio. I was like, I'm [86:33] going to just use my footwork and [86:34] whatever I could do. And thankfully, it [86:36] worked out. [86:37] >> How much time between the Marlin fight [86:38] and that fight was there? [86:39] >> April, December 9th, 2017. [86:43] >> So, it was four months [86:44] >> just about. Yeah. [86:46] >> Wow. [86:46] >> Which was scary. It was scary and they [86:49] offered me to fight. I was like, I don't [86:50] know if I'm supposed to be doing this [86:52] right now, but I kind of need the money. [86:54] So, well, you needed the money, but if I [86:57] could have given advice to like [86:59] Vulcganowski, [87:00] I would have said, first of all, I would [87:02] have said never take a fight with Islam [87:05] on 11 days notice. That's just crazy. [87:07] Never. [87:07] >> Especially when you're not training at [87:08] all. you're just kind of chilling and [87:11] you take a fight with one of the best [87:13] pound-for-pound fighters, if not the [87:15] best on the on the planet, and you get [87:17] head kicked. And then to fight Ilia just [87:20] a few months after that, it's kind of [87:21] crazy. Yeah. And he he was looking good [87:24] in that first round until Ilia does what [87:27] he does, traps you against that black [87:29] line against the cage, and he puts those [87:31] combinations on you and puts the lights [87:33] out. And yeah, I I agree. He should have [87:37] taken more time. 100%. You would have [87:39] been okay with taking more time. [87:40] >> You've got to take more time. You have [87:41] to. You just have to realize that as [87:43] tough as you are, your body is a [87:45] machine. And if the machine's broken, [87:47] it's got to be repaired. And it's going [87:48] to take time to repair. It's not as [87:50] simple as like you go to the shop, you [87:52] get a new carburetor, you're good to go. [87:53] You got to you got to give your body [87:55] time to to heal. And with the head, it's [87:59] hard because you don't know. [88:01] >> Yeah. It's the wild card. [88:03] >> Yeah. And everyone is different. Mhm. [88:06] >> And I kind of wonder if that's something [88:07] to do with like the way people grow up. [88:10] If maybe they dropped on their head a [88:12] couple times when they were kids. [88:13] >> Sure. Football, play football in high [88:15] school, get KO'ed a few times doing [88:17] that. [88:18] >> You know, you get KO'ed a few times [88:20] doing stupid [ __ ] with your friends [88:22] >> and then you get older and now you're [88:23] trying to compete and you realize I [88:25] can't take a shot. [88:26] >> Yeah. [88:26] >> As much as I thought I could have. And [88:29] >> like you see a guy like Diego Lopez and [88:30] you're like, dude, you gota His his chin [88:33] is granite, bro. It's like what can you [88:36] hit him with that can actually put him [88:37] down? It's crazy. [88:38] >> Well, if he continues getting hit, there [88:41] will be a time, right? Like remember [88:43] Chuck Liddell? Chuck Liddell in the [88:45] early days was bulletproof. [88:46] >> He was bulletproof. He would just wade [88:48] at guys, bite down his mouthpiece, eat [88:50] shots to the head, and take guys out. [88:52] And he didn't give a [ __ ] He had full [88:54] confidence in his chin and would force [88:57] guys into these chaotic wars. [89:00] >> And then it goes away. And then one day [89:02] you get hit and it just goes. [89:05] >> Well, left hand, broken hand from Rich [89:08] Franklin that hit Chuck. [89:10] >> Well, yeah. He broke Rich's arm, right? [89:13] >> Yeah. And then Yeah. And with that [89:14] broken hand, he hit him. [89:15] >> Is that what he knocked him out with? A [89:16] broken arm. [89:17] >> From what I remember, that's what he hit [89:18] him with. That left hand and put him [89:20] out. And I was like, [89:20] >> that was he was done at that point. His [89:23] chin was done. I mean, after Rampage [89:25] KO'ed him, that was kind of That was the [89:28] big one. [89:28] >> That was a nasty one. [89:29] >> That was a nasty one. Yeah. I always [89:31] wanted to be like the mini Rampage, but [89:34] I was like, but I'm not knocking anybody [89:35] out. So, it's uh it's hard to do that. [89:38] >> Rampage could chain [89:40] >> and the wolf. [89:43] >> Always wanted to do that. [89:44] >> And Rampage did it all natural, whereas [89:46] everybody else was doing Juice, [89:48] especially in Pride, you know, he was [89:50] fighting all juice monsters. Everyone [89:52] was a juice monster in Pride. [89:53] >> Yeah. [89:54] >> You know, it's different time back then. [89:56] >> He still has the craziest slam KO of all [89:59] time. of all time. [90:00] >> Arona, right? [90:01] >> Yep. When Arona didn't let go of the [90:03] triangle. [90:04] >> Yeah. [90:04] >> And he takes him over the top of his [90:05] head like a pillow [90:07] >> and [90:07] >> and slams him down. [90:09] >> Oh my god. That was another one. Arona [90:12] was never the same again after that [90:13] fight. [90:13] >> What about Cyborg in that knee from MVP? [90:16] >> That was the craziest. [90:17] >> Freaking dented his cranium. [90:19] >> Crushed his skull. Literally crushed his [90:22] skull. Broke his skull open. [90:24] >> So, [90:26] this is going to sound like a joke, but [90:28] I go like, "What do you do? plunge it to [90:29] pull it back. You got to reconstruct it. [90:32] You ever see what they did to it? Put [90:33] all these plates in his head. [90:35] >> Yeah. He had all sorts of screws and [90:37] plates and everything to piece his head [90:39] back together again cuz his skull [90:41] structure has been compromised. [90:42] >> What does it do to your brain? Your [90:44] brain is now squish. Not good. I mean, [90:46] he said after the fight, "I'll be back." [90:48] But everybody's like, "No, you won't." [90:50] >> No, that's what it looked like. I mean, [90:52] that is literally crazy. [90:55] >> Yeah, bro. I saw a Muay Thai fight [90:58] recently online where a guy did that to [91:00] a dude with an elbow and he caved his [91:02] head in and you see like this giant hole [91:05] in his forehead where his head's dented [91:07] in. And the referee is like, "Stop the [91:09] fight." He's like, "Why are you stopping [91:10] the fight?" He's like, "Bro, like you [91:12] need to see what you look like. [91:14] >> You're not seeing what I'm seeing." [91:15] >> Yeah. Your head's dented. Your your [91:17] head's broken. Like you have a broken [91:19] head. [91:20] >> Yeah. [91:20] >> It's amazing how few times that's [91:22] happened if you think about it. Yeah. [91:25] This is it. This is it. Look at that. [91:27] >> Oh, that might be worse than the other [91:29] one. [91:29] >> It's right up there. If you back it up, [91:32] you can see the elbow. The dude lands [91:34] right there. Boom. And then he looks at [91:36] him. He's like, "Um, hey." [91:39] >> And then the referee gets a look at it. [91:41] And the referee gets a look at it. As [91:42] soon as the referee sees it. [91:45] >> He almost doesn't even want to hit him [91:46] again. He's like, "Fuck." [91:47] >> Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. The the [91:49] referee stops. He's like, "Hold on a [91:50] second. Let me get a look at you." [91:52] >> It's like, "You should stop now, my [91:53] friend." [91:54] >> Brings in the doctor. This is what's [91:55] going on here. Oh my tomahawk. [92:00] That was what was so impressive about [92:02] Zyukov. Uh Chunko and his [92:06] >> um John Pork. [92:07] >> Yeah. [92:08] >> Why do they call him that? [92:09] >> I have no idea. Chonko. They call him [92:11] Chonko because that's his town. That's [92:12] the town we grew up in. [92:14] >> Okay. [92:14] >> But uh man, that dude's elbows were so [92:17] slick. [92:18] >> He's he's slick. [92:19] >> He's fun to watch. [92:20] >> He's slick. his elbows in the clinch and [92:23] in tight, you know, because he's a Muay [92:25] Thai world champion. And, you know, that [92:28] was his original discipline, which is [92:30] interesting when you see these guys who [92:31] start off as strikers and then they get [92:34] to Dagistan training room with Kabib and [92:36] Islam and all those guys and they they [92:38] learn the wrestling, but they start off [92:40] with just this elite level of striking. [92:43] >> Yeah. And that other guy wasn't bad. [92:46] >> He he gave back some some resilience, [92:48] but [92:48] >> Oh, yeah, man. He dropped him. Remember? [92:50] >> Yeah. [92:50] >> Oh, no. That was his first fight. Yeah. [92:52] No, he didn't drop him this was his [92:54] first fight in the Contender Series. He [92:55] got dropped. He's uh he's a dangerous [92:58] guy, man. Super dangerous. Kono's [93:00] [ __ ] He's for real, man. And so high [93:03] level with his striking. His striking is [93:05] just so elite. Especially those elbows [93:07] and tight, man. Elbows are nasty. I I'm [93:12] like chosen. I can't let you get close. [93:15] I can't let you get close because No, [93:18] you're not about to do that to me, bro. [93:20] That that's that's I ain't trying to [93:21] look like that. [93:22] >> Yeah. [93:23] >> Like, you know, I want to continue my [93:25] acting career and, you know, I got a [93:27] whole lot of things I want to do, but [93:29] >> it's going to be a little tough if you [93:31] get a couple of those. [93:32] >> Yeah. Well, elbows are It's kind of [93:34] funny that your gloves protect your [93:36] hands and your knuckles, but not your [93:38] elbows [93:38] >> or knees. [93:39] >> Or your knees or your shins. It's kind [93:42] of nuts that we have the padded thing [93:44] >> is the thing that's the least likely to [93:46] hurt you. If you really think about it, [93:48] >> it's the crazy sport. [93:50] >> It is the craziest. [93:51] >> I love it and hate it sometimes. [93:53] >> How much longer do you think you're [93:54] going to do it? [93:55] >> You're 37 now. You must be thinking You [93:58] must be thinking, how much more am I [94:00] going to do this for? [94:02] >> Yeah, you know, I'm just taking it one [94:03] fight at a time. I would like to end my [94:06] career with the UFC. Um, [94:09] you know, hopefully [94:11] >> it's an option that you might not. [94:12] >> I don't know. You know, you never know [94:14] what's going to happen. [94:15] >> Somebody comes up with a big number. No, [94:16] not even that. Like you just never know. [94:18] Like I know I sometimes piss off the [94:21] brass from time to time. [94:22] >> Do you? [94:23] >> I guess I've been told this. [94:24] >> How? [94:25] >> That I sometimes I don't say the right [94:26] things. [94:27] >> What have you said? [94:28] >> I'm a very honest person. So sometimes I [94:30] just tell how I really feel about [94:31] certain things. And people these media [94:34] outlets, they know what they're doing. [94:35] They're asking me these questions [94:36] because they know I'm going to tell them [94:38] >> the clickbait clips that they want. [94:40] >> Who you talking about specifically? [94:43] >> Which which one? [94:44] >> The media outlets that [ __ ] with you. [94:45] All of them. [94:46] >> They all try to get you. [94:47] >> They all all of them. They ask these [94:49] questions. They'll go from fighter pay [94:51] and I've been in the headlines for [94:53] fighter pay many times. Many many times. [94:56] >> It's a legitimate argument. [94:57] >> It is. But for some reason when I when I [95:00] talk about it, I am and maybe because [95:02] I'm not the crazy guy like a Sean [95:04] Strickland because Strickland has talked [95:05] about it and he's always been he's known [95:08] as the crazy guy. But when he talks [95:10] about it, he [95:12] >> makes it a very logical understanding [95:14] bit where I go, [95:16] >> how come he's not getting Maybe he is, [95:17] maybe I just don't know because I don't [95:18] ask, but I'm like, for some reason, what [95:21] I say is I feel like I'm a little bit [95:22] more scrutinized. [95:24] >> So, what did does the UFC get upset at [95:27] you? Do they say that they're upset at [95:28] you? You don't have to talk about this [95:30] if you don't want to. [95:32] >> I feel like this is a real issue. It's [95:33] going to get you in trouble with the [95:36] relationship. You're you are look when [95:38] Eivelv and Alexander Hern when when they [95:41] fight [95:42] >> Yeah. [95:43] >> This is very soon. Fulcanowski is [95:45] defending his title against finally [95:47] Eivelv. Like who that [ __ ] guy has [95:49] been waiting forever. [95:50] >> Yeah. And everybody's booked. So I don't [95:52] really know who's the clear-cut guy for [95:54] me to face unless it's Lone Murphy. I [95:56] was told he was hurt. [95:57] >> I think he's booked. I heard Lone's got [96:00] a fight. [96:00] >> I heard he was hurt. [96:01] >> Oh, really? [96:02] >> Yeah. [96:02] >> Maybe he had a fight scheduled and it [96:05] doesn't anymore. Yeah, [96:06] >> but I thought he has a fight coming up. [96:08] >> Yeah, I was told he was hurt, so he's [96:10] going to be out for a couple months. I [96:12] don't know how long. I don't know how [96:13] serious of an injury. Um, but everybody [96:15] else is booked. And [96:17] >> who did he just lose to? Lone [96:19] >> Mosar. [96:20] >> That's right. [96:21] >> Which was crazy. I thought that fight [96:22] should have been scored a draw [96:24] >> with the point deduction. Should have [96:26] been scored a draw. Um, [96:28] >> what was the point deduction for? [96:29] >> Uh, I think it was a low blow, [96:32] but they gave him they gave him four [96:34] rounds. They gave Mosar four rounds. [96:36] >> I'd have to watch it again. I didn't [96:38] think it was a bad decision when I saw [96:39] it. [96:40] >> I'd have to watch it. [96:40] >> It was It was a competitive fight. Mosar [96:43] didn't decide to wrestle him until round [96:45] the end of round three [96:46] >> and he just goes to show he could have [96:48] taken him down anytime he wanted. I'm [96:49] just like, "Fuck it." [96:50] >> Well, I think Mosvar wanted he wanted to [96:52] show his striking cuz he does have [96:54] striking. But because of that, he made [96:56] it he made it more controversial to the [96:59] overall fan base because he decided to [97:02] use his wrestling a lot later on in the [97:04] fight. [97:04] >> Yeah. But I think he needed to show that [97:06] he's not boring in order to get a shot [97:08] at the title and now he's got a shot at [97:10] the title. [97:10] >> But the standup fight between rounds one [97:12] and two was still like there's nothing [97:14] happening. [97:15] >> I thought it was pretty good. I thought [97:16] it was pretty chess match. [97:17] >> It was a chess match. But I think I [97:19] think it was it was opening up Leone to [97:23] shots that I don't think he expected [97:24] were coming at him because I think he [97:26] probably anticipated shot takedowns [97:28] takedown attempts and instead [97:30] >> Mosvar was getting off on him. [97:32] >> Yeah, [97:33] >> he could strike. [97:34] >> He can. [97:35] >> But it's like you it's like why do it [97:37] when you're better at grappling? If you [97:39] can get a hold of him, why do it? Why [97:41] why roll the dice? And you know when [97:44] people say like like a lot of people [97:46] were upset when Morab beat Sugashan. [97:48] >> Yeah. [97:49] >> And they were saying like that was [97:50] boring. That was this like listen this [97:53] is the sport we're watching. If a guy [97:55] like Morab can take you down and give [97:57] you noogies for five rounds and you [97:59] can't do [ __ ] and you lose your title. [98:01] That's how it goes. You can't say that's [98:04] boring and he should fight differently [98:07] >> because Sean's got to come up with a [98:09] solution. He's got to figure out how to [98:11] to deal with that. [98:13] Styles makes fights. It's about the [98:14] story. [98:14] >> Yep. [98:15] >> How'd you do against this guy? Islam [98:17] Makachev versus Ian Garry. Same thing. [98:19] How does he do with this guy? Conor [98:20] McGregor versus Kabib Nurmagamedov. Same [98:23] thing about the storyline. Conor was [98:25] protected his whole UFC run. Now he's [98:27] fighting a good highlevel grappler. [98:29] Probably arguably arguably the best [98:31] grappler from the top position, clinch [98:34] position [98:34] >> ever. [98:35] >> Um ever. And it's the storyline. Can [98:38] Conor McGregor overcome this? Can he [98:40] land a perfect shot? is what gets you to [98:42] buy into it. But if you're going to be [98:44] pissed that the machine is going to come [98:45] in and your guy can't land the perfect [98:49] punch, whose fault is that? It's like, [98:52] but this is why you're watching. You're [98:53] tuning in. You're not tuning in to watch [98:54] a a slaughtering of the lambs. You want [98:57] to watch a competitive fight. If you [98:58] just want to watch one-sided fights, I [99:00] don't know. Like, what do you want? [99:02] >> Yeah. I mean, it was one-sided in the in [99:05] that he was able to take him down at [99:07] will, but the al also the problem was [99:09] Shawn fought that fight with a [ __ ] up [99:11] hip and really probably shouldn't have [99:13] been fighting. Like, he had a tear in [99:15] his hip. [99:15] >> Yeah, but we all have stuff. Of [99:18] >> course, I went to the fight with Shawn [99:20] injured coming into the fight. He gets [99:22] injured during the training camp and [99:23] then he uses that I had a busted rib. I [99:25] go, bro, we all have stuff, but you were [99:28] in a better position to win this fight [99:30] than I was coming into the fight. the [99:32] same thing. When did he hurt his hip? I [99:34] don't know. But then they fought again [99:35] and it was worse. [99:36] >> It was worse. Morab. [99:37] >> So, well, Morab was like super confident [99:39] coming in the second fight that he was [99:41] going to be able to take him down. And [99:42] then also, he had that championship [99:44] level confidence. [99:45] >> Of course, you get that level up. [99:46] >> Get that level up. [99:47] >> Yeah. So, it's like it's not knocking [99:49] Sean. It's not knocking the fans, but [99:50] it's like, yo, this is the game that [99:52] we're playing. No one's coming into [99:53] this. I was talking to the guys at [99:55] Wayell. They're like, it's fascinating [99:57] how many of you guys are so beaten up. [99:59] I'm going down a list of my injuries and [100:01] everything I got going on. Like I got an [100:03] MRI for this. I got an MRI for this. [100:05] This hurting. That's been bothering me [100:06] for two years. This has been still [100:08] ongoing and I still go fight. And you [100:10] would never think it. But that's just [100:12] what it is. Like we got to do what we [100:14] got to do. We're never going to be 100% [100:15] going into it. [100:16] >> 100%. [100:17] >> Like all sports, [100:18] >> guys fought in world championships with [100:19] blown out knees and won. You know, I [100:22] mean, when Alex Pereira beat Yuri Pasca, [100:24] he had a [ __ ] up knee in the first [100:26] fight. [100:26] >> Yeah. And that's why when you see him [100:28] get on on top of him when he's finishing [100:30] him, he rolls over like rolls. Instead [100:33] of stepping up and standing over, he [100:35] rolled off of him because his knee was [100:36] blown out. [100:37] >> Carlos Oberg. [100:38] >> Yeah, that was crazy. But that was on [100:41] Yuri. [100:42] >> That was such a blunder. [100:44] >> Such a blunt. Well, that's Yuri's [100:46] craziness where it's not good. You know, [100:49] some of Yuri's craziness is great. Like [100:51] when he fought Jamal, [100:53] >> I fell for him so bad. [100:54] >> I did, too. because I was just like, [100:56] it's not like saying I wanted him to [100:58] win, but I felt for him like, damn, bro, [101:00] you made the biggest mistake [101:02] >> that you could have possibly made in a [101:04] situation like that. [101:05] >> It's literally the only thing he can hit [101:06] you with. [101:07] >> [ __ ] hell. And he lands it. [101:09] >> It's the only thing he can hit you with. [101:11] He can't He doesn't have a right leg. [101:13] His right leg is completely gone, but he [101:15] can still throw that left hook. You [101:18] know, [101:18] >> that's his best punch. [101:20] >> Lightning. I always tell people the way [101:22] he leads that that he uh just leaves out [101:25] that lead hand and he's measuring stiff [101:27] jab and he's stepping back and he takes [101:29] that side step pivot that LS step and [101:31] boom it's just he's clean with that [101:34] division is on fire right now. How about [101:36] Navajo Sterling? [101:37] >> I to say what what happens with those [101:39] two guys? [101:40] >> I know right in the same camp now [101:42] >> I know [101:42] >> he just beat Bohovich. [101:43] >> What happens? And he stopped him. [101:45] >> That was first of all I know watching [101:48] that was extraordinary. I was like, [101:50] "This kid is something. He's something, [101:52] man." That right hand was the distance [101:54] he covered to land that right hand, too. [101:56] >> And Jan's got a chin made out of iron to [102:00] take Yan out like that and drop him like [102:01] that. Very, very, very impressive. [102:04] >> He's 43 now. [102:05] >> Yeah. [102:06] >> So, it's also I'm not taking anything [102:08] away from him, but it's like I think [102:10] that's how old Glover was when he beat [102:12] him. I think Glover was like 42 when he [102:14] won the title. [102:16] >> [ __ ] [102:16] >> He was in his 40s. It's doable. [102:19] >> It's doable. It ain't easy, but it's [102:21] doable. [102:21] >> Yeah. It's not normal. Nor I mean, [102:23] Glover was the boogeyman for six years [102:25] before he could ever get to the UFC. [102:27] Everybody had talked about Glover. Like, [102:28] he was scary, but he was trapped in [102:30] Brazil. He couldn't visa issues. He [102:32] couldn't get a visa to come to America [102:34] and fight. [102:36] >> Um, and during those six years, he might [102:38] have been the best light heavyweight on [102:39] the planet. [102:39] >> Yeah. I remember you talking cuz when he [102:40] got signed, he got signed pretty what [102:43] was like late 20s, maybe 30s. [102:46] >> Mhm. [102:47] I think he was in his 30s. [102:49] >> Yeah. And I didn't know about him until [102:50] he came over, made that debut and was [102:52] against Fab Fabio Maldonado, I think [102:54] maybe. [102:56] >> But yes, it's uh sometimes it just goes [102:58] like that. Even like Pereira, he came [102:59] over so late, started so late, I should [103:01] say. And for him to do what he has done [103:03] in such a short amount of time is like [103:06] unreal. [103:06] >> Unreal. Yeah. Pretty extraordinary. How [103:09] impressed were you with serial gone [103:10] though? [103:11] >> Very. [103:13] >> How many heavyweights can move like [103:15] that, dude? [103:15] >> Zero. And that's the whole thing with [103:17] the Aspenol fight that I was saying. I [103:19] was like, dude, this guy played [103:20] basketball. It's a different type of [103:22] athleticism. [103:23] >> Quick twitch muscles, knows how to [103:26] pivot, fake, hit his jukes. [103:28] >> Yeah. It's like plyometrics. Like giant [103:31] man plyometrics. [103:32] >> Yeah. [103:33] >> Yeah. [103:33] >> And he's great at just holding the range [103:36] outside of the eye pokes, but great at [103:37] holding the range. [103:39] >> Also, the dude never gets hit. [103:41] >> Yeah. When was the last time we saw I [103:43] mean, think about Gan is fighting in the [103:44] heavyweight division. He's fighting guys [103:46] like Tai Tu Iasa. He's fighting, you [103:49] know, these elite guys, these big [103:51] heavyweights. And you never see him get [103:54] cracked. Even against Enano, [103:56] >> I about to say even against Enano, he [103:57] did a [103:58] >> didn't get cracked. I mean, that's kind [104:00] of crazy that he's so good at avoiding [104:02] getting hit. He's probably like the [104:04] least hit clean heavyweight in the [104:06] division. [104:07] >> I think that fight with Jon Jones made [104:09] people think less of him than what he [104:11] actually is. [104:12] >> It's just that's how good Jon Jones is. [104:15] Like [104:15] >> that's how good Jon Jones is. You can't [104:17] do that. It's not the same. [104:18] >> Especially if Jon gets a hold of your [104:19] neck, he's going to finish it. [104:21] >> And the way he did it, you know, taking [104:23] him down like that in the first round [104:25] and guillotining him. I mean, [104:27] phenomenal. But it's just you have to [104:30] deal with that speed and that movement [104:32] standing up before you could ever get [104:34] that to happen. And John figured it out. [104:35] But I think serial has tightened up his [104:37] takedown defense considerably since that [104:40] fight. Yeah. [104:40] >> Because I think he realized like this is [104:42] the big hole in his game. I know he [104:44] brought in a lot of real big wrestlers, [104:46] but when it comes to kickboxing, when it [104:48] comes to Muay Thai, he's so hard to [ __ ] [104:51] with. And he you that style is different [104:53] than everybody else's style. [104:54] >> He's nasty. [104:55] >> Light on his feet. He does a weird [104:58] thing, too, from his side. Yeah, that [105:00] that front kick. [105:01] >> I be watching [105:02] >> that twisting front kick from the front [105:04] leg [105:04] >> is the way he stands. He stands almost [105:06] like this bladed, but it's like not [105:09] really bladed, but it is. and allows him [105:11] to have that dexterity and the [105:12] flexibility where he could just look [105:14] like he's throwing a front kick but he's [105:16] >> throw it's a twisting kick. Yeah, [105:19] >> there's a kick in Taekwondo called a [105:21] twisting kick and that's what it's like. [105:23] It's from this position you throw it out [105:25] like that with the ball of the foot. So [105:27] you're standing completely sideways and [105:29] your left your your front leg comes up [105:31] and it twists and goes like that. And [105:33] that's what he's doing to the body. He's [105:36] throwing a twisting front kick to the [105:38] body. It's nasty. See if you can find it [105:40] in here. Well, that's his round kick, [105:43] but it's it's off of his front leg. He [105:45] throws it off the front leg and he [105:46] throws it completely sideways. And when [105:49] you get to moving, he's gone. [105:51] >> Yeah. Yeah. [105:52] >> And then and also you might try to like [105:55] overemphasize those movements and he [105:57] counters catching you coming in because [105:59] he's faster than you. And that's what he [106:00] did to Alex. Yeah. [106:01] >> He caught him with that. He caught him [106:02] with a jab. I mean, that's what he [106:04] really rocked him with. It was a right [106:05] jab. [106:05] >> Alex was big that fight. [106:08] It's freaking ass. I was like, "Yo, this [106:10] is like distracting, bro. You got a [106:12] [ __ ] bunka dunk that's [ __ ] block [106:15] blocking my vision of the screen right [106:16] now, Alex. Like, move. Turn the other [106:18] way." [106:18] >> It was the worst matchup for Alex to [106:21] step into heavyweight. A guy who is [106:24] bigger than him naturally, moves faster [106:27] than him, and lighter on his feet, and [106:29] is also an elite striker, a world [106:31] championship caliber striker [106:33] >> at a heavyweight level. cuz like you [106:35] know Alex has been 185. He's a thinner [106:38] guy and he de definitely put on mass to [106:41] get up to 250 but that's not necessarily [106:43] where he was naturally. [106:45] >> Yeah. [106:45] >> Whereas serial gone has a natural frame [106:47] to be at 248 [106:49] >> and he's more stationary. [106:50] >> Mhm. [106:51] >> The stationary guys never do so well [106:52] against the guys who can move very well. [106:55] It's just [106:55] >> right [106:56] >> hard for you to chase him down, track [106:57] him down to learn the perfect punch. had [106:59] a hard time landing his calf kicks, [107:01] which slows fights down for him and [107:03] allows him to land that big chama left [107:05] hook. [107:06] >> Um [107:07] >> I don't even if they were to have a [107:08] rematch, I don't know what he would have [107:11] to work on to make that adjustment. [107:14] That's just a hard fight for him. [107:15] Stylist, [107:15] >> it's always going to be a hard fight for [107:17] him because serial gone so agile. He's [107:19] so hard to hit. He's never in front of [107:21] you. Unless he caught him like maybe [107:23] threw those high kicks right in the [107:24] beginning. He could have caught him with [107:25] something like that and rocked him and [107:26] that would have been a different story. [107:28] But he didn't, you know, and Sarah's [107:30] like he's great at blocking [ __ ] too. [107:32] Even if you get to him, his reflexes are [107:35] excellent. [107:35] >> Yeah. [107:36] >> And it's just that movement and speed is [107:38] extraordinary. It would have been very [107:40] interesting to see what happens if the [107:42] Aspenol fight didn't end the way it [107:43] ended. [107:44] >> That was a heartbreaker. [107:44] >> It was a heartbreaker. [107:45] >> I got a lot of flack for that cuz people [107:47] were saying I should have taken his side [107:49] because I got foul, too. And I'm like, [107:51] I'm not not taking his side. But what [107:53] I'm saying is the only person that knows [107:55] how bad he truly like was hurt is going [107:58] to be [107:59] >> Aspenol. [108:00] >> Yes. [108:00] >> You know, so if he's saying it, I take [108:01] it at face value. It is what it is. I [108:03] can't go and say I'm in your eyeballs. [108:05] I've seen guys get poked all the time [108:06] and they continue. Yeah. We see it all [108:08] the time. But [108:10] >> not all eye pokes are created equal. [108:12] >> No. [108:12] >> And he got all them three stooges [108:15] fingers up in there and it was [108:16] >> till Yeah. It was bad. [108:18] >> Terrible. Terrible. [108:19] >> I can only take what he's saying. I was [108:20] like, but again, [108:22] it's really up to him. Can he have said [108:24] if he was winning the fight, my push [108:26] back was devil's advocate. If he was [108:29] winning the fight and having his way, [108:31] would he have said, "You know what? I'm [108:32] going to suck it up and try to fight [108:34] through this even though I still can't [108:36] see." You never know. If he was if he [108:38] was having [108:39] >> I don't think he should, especially for [108:41] a foul. [108:41] >> I think it was he was he made 100% the [108:44] right call because look, he didn't lose [108:46] that fight. It was a foul. Although [108:48] controversial, he doesn't get knocked [108:50] out. He doesn't get head kicked. He [108:52] doesn't get f flying beat in the face. [108:54] If you can't see out of one of your [108:56] eyes, [108:56] >> it's hard. [108:57] >> There's all sorts of [ __ ] that's coming [108:58] from this direction that you're just not [109:00] going to see coming. And in wild [109:02] exchanges where your peripheral would [109:04] catch it and you would duck under, [109:05] you're not going to be able to see it. [109:07] Yeah. And you're going to get rocked. [109:08] And it's also you're thinking now, oh my [109:10] god, I can't see out of one of my eyes. [109:13] >> [ __ ] that. [109:13] >> Yeah. [109:14] >> He did the right thing. He did the right [109:16] thing. And I think, you know, he should [109:18] have got more support. He should have [109:19] got more support from everybody for for [109:21] that. [109:22] >> From everybody. [109:23] >> From everybody. Yeah. I mean, I tried to [109:24] give him as much support as I could. I [109:27] think he got fouled and they did the [109:28] right thing. And I think you got to take [109:30] one point away every [ __ ] time [109:32] someone touches an eye. One point. Every [109:34] time. And they won't do it anymore. [109:36] >> It looks like he's doing better now. [109:38] Well, I'm hoping he gets to compete [109:39] again this year. [109:40] >> Two [ __ ] eye surgeries, man. So that [109:42] remember remember when you got knocked [109:44] out by Mullen Marise? how in the back of [109:46] your head you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I can't [109:48] get hit." How about him? Two eyeball [109:50] surgeries and now every time a finger [109:53] comes towards his eye, he's thinking [109:54] about his eyes losing his eye. Look at [109:56] Michael Bisping. He doesn't have an eye. [109:58] He has one eye that's missing, right? [110:00] So, you got to think that am I going to [110:02] not be am I going to look at my kids [110:04] through one blurry eye for the rest of [110:06] my life? [110:07] >> It's [ __ ] [110:08] >> That's [ __ ] You know, it's so for the [110:12] being in the position that he's in right [110:13] now is kind of terrible. [110:15] Um, I want to talk about the Islam [110:17] fights uh for this weekend for 3:30. Can [110:22] we take a piss break? [110:23] >> Yeah, take a piss break. [110:25] >> We'll be right back. [110:26] >> And we're back. Jamie, pull up that [110:27] card, the um the one this weekend so we [110:31] take a look at it. Yeah. Um, what do you [110:33] think about the Ian Garry Islam fight? [110:37] If you had to predict, [110:39] >> if I had to predict, you're [110:40] >> like on the UFC desk and they put you on [110:42] the spot. [110:43] >> Okay. Islam Makachev did a really good [110:45] job neutralizing [110:48] uh JDM's boxing didn't really give him [110:51] an opportunity to do anything. He [110:53] chopped his legs away with the the calf [110:55] kicks. Um controlled him in the clinch. [110:58] The takedowns were relatively easy. He [111:00] didn't even really have to set it up [111:00] with like hands. He kind of just shot [111:02] and just took him down at will. Um Ian [111:05] Gary now on the other hand, he's done a [111:06] good job of showing takedown resilience. [111:09] We saw that with Bal Muhammad. Is Balan [111:12] Muhammad Makachev? No. No, he's not. [111:15] >> No. [111:15] >> Um, but it it definitely showed [111:17] something. He did a good job with Shaq [111:19] as well, who's a bigger guy. Uh, was [111:22] able to defend a bunch of times. Uh, I [111:23] forgot if it was Shaot who had his back, [111:25] but he was able to defend. [111:26] >> Sha is the guy who beat him. So, [111:28] Shaovkat is the one loss that he has, [111:30] and it was the grappling that Sha got [111:32] him with, but he also blew out Shakott's [111:35] knee. Yeah. Like, that's why Shakott has [111:37] had all these surgeries. [111:37] >> That oblique kick. [111:38] >> Mhm. That that kick is so nasty. That's [111:41] the one thing that I wonder like should [111:43] we not have that? [111:44] >> You don't like any You don't really like [111:46] that one. [111:46] >> I It's You can't I mean you can defend [111:48] it by not getting hit by it, but the [111:50] problem is if you get hit by it like [111:53] Khalil Roundtree and Modestus Bukus when [111:56] he went turned his knee sideways, [111:58] >> he stomped that thing. [111:59] >> Stomped it. And that's that's a career [112:02] changer. Like it could be a career [112:04] ender. Bukos Bukosquez came back. But [112:06] >> Well, this is two years now, right? For [112:08] for Shkot that he's been out. Yep. He's [112:10] had multiple surgeries. He He had it [112:13] done and then it blew out again. Had to [112:14] get it done again. [112:16] >> Yeah. I I just don't know the the range, [112:18] the reach advantage. I think Ian does a [112:21] great job of using his lateral footwork. [112:23] >> Mhm. [112:24] >> Mak is not the fastest guy. [112:26] >> No. [112:26] >> But what he is, he's imposing. He knows [112:28] how to cut you off. Um that southpaw [112:31] stance, [112:32] >> I think, causes some problems for a lot [112:34] of people. He's only lost what, one time [112:36] to the to the um Adrianiano Martins with [112:38] the the headkick knockout. [112:40] >> A punch. [112:40] >> Was it a punch? [112:41] >> Yeah, he got punched. [112:42] >> Well, I thought it was a head kick. But [112:43] um either way, [112:44] >> I think Ian's going to have to look to [112:46] something like that. See if there's [112:47] maybe some of those old tendencies that [112:49] that punch was able to land. That was [112:51] also such a younger version of Islam. I [112:53] just don't see him making those mistakes [112:54] again. [112:55] >> Yeah, that was a long time ago. [112:56] >> How does Ian win? He's going to have to [112:58] point fight and sit on the outside and [112:59] hope not to get tired going backwards [113:01] the whole time, [113:02] >> right? and he got tired doing that [113:03] against Carlos Protest. So, this is a [113:06] tough one for for Gary. Can he get the [113:08] upset? Of course, is fighting. We just [113:10] saw this with Gachi and Taporia. Um, but [113:14] I would say Islam has the one shortcut [113:17] way to win. Push him against the cage, [113:19] take him down, and even if he presses [113:21] him against the cage, I'm curious to [113:23] know if to curious to see if Gary can do [113:25] damage in the clinch. Whenever I'm in [113:27] the clinch with somebody, I always tell [113:29] the guys, look for your knuckles and hit [113:32] the eyeball, hit the nose, hit the soft [113:34] spots that's going to make this guy [113:35] uncomfortable in the clinch, not looking [113:37] for his foot sweeps where he's [113:38] comfortable just resting on you. Um, [113:40] looking to set up his takedown, his next [113:42] transition. Uh, and I learned this from [113:44] Brian Carowway, my first pro loss in the [113:46] UFC after being 5-0. We clinch. I take [113:50] him down, but in the clinch, while I'm [113:52] going for the single leg, I have his leg [113:53] up in the air. He's leaning over my back [113:55] and he's taking his knuckles and he's [113:57] just hitting me in the eye. Swallowed my [113:59] whole eye. I was like, "What the [ __ ] is [114:00] he hitting me with?" And I go back and I [114:02] watch the tape and I get to see and I [114:04] learned that. So, I always like show [114:06] like share these little tricks and stuff [114:07] with guys when I'm teaching them. So, if [114:09] Gary could land some good damage in [114:10] those positions, kind of deter Islam a [114:13] little bit or make him a little bit more [114:14] sloppy on his finishes, it could cause [114:16] some chaotic scrambles where he could [114:19] potentially get to a good position and [114:21] maybe we see Islam on his back again. [114:22] kind of like what happened with Vogue. [114:24] And when he was there with Vogue, it did [114:26] not look good. [114:27] >> And of course, it's round five, so it [114:29] got to be fair. [114:29] >> It was also a fight where the time was [114:31] all [ __ ] up and he didn't have as much [114:33] time to rehydrate. [114:34] >> Oh, yeah. They did say they did say [114:35] something like that. [114:36] >> It was not He didn't He was compromised [114:38] in that fight because of that. Because [114:40] he didn't have as much time to rehydrate [114:42] because they're fighting in Australia [114:43] and they were trying to fight on US [114:45] time. [114:47] Um, [114:48] this one is the one that I'm really [114:50] excited about, too, cuz Jillian is so [114:53] [ __ ] good on the ground. [114:56] >> Top position, even off of her back. [114:58] Mackenzie Dur is great off of her back. [115:00] The top position, too. Um, [115:04] she's more decorated in terms of like [115:07] the jiu-jitsu space. [115:09] On the feet, she's more reckless. Like, [115:11] she's throwing caution to the wind [115:12] because she doesn't care. She's not [115:14] afraid to get her pretty face messed up. [115:15] She's going to go in there and go after [115:16] you. She's just attacking. [115:18] >> Yeah. [115:18] >> Jillian, on the other hand, not as [115:20] physical on the feet. Um not a big [115:22] puncher, not a big kicker. She sets [115:25] everything up looking for the taked down [115:26] or the clinch to to take you down, get [115:28] to the back. But when she gets there and [115:30] she gets you down, she her ground and [115:32] pound. It's nasty. [115:34] >> The question is, is she going to be able [115:35] to do it to a world champion like [115:37] Mackenzie Dur [115:38] >> to a good position? Like some of those [115:39] other girls, she gets the back mount or [115:42] full mount and she's able to land these [115:44] solid elbows, beat them up in that [115:45] position. [115:46] >> Mackenzie is a jiu-jitsu world champion. [115:48] >> It's a different different world. [115:50] >> It's going to be interesting. [115:51] >> It's going to be interesting. Um, go the [115:53] other rest of the card. Go back to it [115:56] cuz uh I'm interested to see how uh [115:58] Abdul Malik recovers from his last fight [116:03] against Bulgari. Bulgari's a monster, [116:06] dude. There's that's a guy in the 185 [116:09] pound division. That's a real [ __ ] [116:10] problem. [116:11] >> Yeah, [116:11] >> he's a world class striker. He has a [116:14] victory over Pereira in glory. [116:16] >> Yeah, that is that's the Yeah, that's [116:17] the guy. [116:18] >> Yeah, one victory and then he got [116:20] starched in the rematch. [116:22] >> But the thing with with uh Malik is he [116:24] was trying to go for the takedowns, but [116:26] the setups were like in my opinion from [116:28] a wrestler standpoint. So, I may be a [116:29] little bit unfair with this criticism, [116:31] but I just didn't think that they they [116:33] were that good. And um he was also [116:36] dealing with striking that was like way [116:37] above and beyond him. [116:38] >> Yeah. [116:39] >> And that that was part of the problem is [116:40] that in the transitions like trying to [116:42] get close to him, you're dealing with a [116:43] guy who's gigantic. He's one of the [116:45] tallest guys in the division. He's so [116:47] [ __ ] big for 185. So long and so tall [116:50] and on top of it worldass striker. And [116:54] he's coming into his own as an MMA guy. [116:56] And part of the reason is cuz he's down [116:58] there in Connecticut with with uh Glover [117:01] and with Alex and he's doing camps with [117:04] those guys. So like his grappling's now [117:05] on point, much more confident on the [117:08] feet, much more stable. [117:10] >> But before that, I thought Mansour was a [117:13] real potential world champion. [117:14] >> Yes. But it's just so crazy. You could [117:17] see somebody in one fight and then see [117:18] him in the next one. You're just like, [117:19] "All right." [117:20] >> It was a bad loss, too. It was a bad [117:22] loss. [117:22] >> It wasn't good. [117:23] >> It was a lot of like See if you can find [117:25] that fight. leg kicks. He did jabs. [117:27] >> He got beat up. So, it was The thing was [117:30] the amount of damage that he took cuz [117:32] he's so tough. The amount of damage he [117:34] took before they stopped the fight was [117:35] pretty extraordinary. There was a lot of [117:37] damage. [117:37] >> I was hoping he could get the fight down [117:39] at least once, [117:40] >> right? [117:40] >> But yeah, he couldn't. It was uh it was [117:43] a tough [117:46] >> There's a lot of guys at 185 that are a [117:49] [ __ ] problem, man. A lot of guys at [117:51] 85 that are a real problem. But we need [117:53] that in those divisions cuz those [117:55] divisions have been so thin for so long. [117:57] Like there's a couple of guys, right? [117:58] But now you're starting to see more like [118:00] even like the lower weight classes, a [118:01] guy who's unranked like a Ethan Euan. [118:03] Right. [118:04] >> Right. And you're like, I'm excited [118:05] about this division cuz I want to see [118:07] how far he could go. You got a guy like [118:08] Mansour and I can't say the other guy's [118:10] name. Um Abdul. No. Um that's man. [118:13] >> Bulgary. [118:14] >> Bulgary. [118:15] >> You got these two guys coming. [118:16] >> Atabotier. How about that [ __ ] [118:18] >> Yeah. [118:19] >> He puts guys into orbit. [118:20] >> He fought our guy uh Azid Diaz. The last [118:22] one. [118:23] >> Yeah, [118:23] >> that was a tough one. It [118:24] >> was a tough one. [118:25] >> Yeah, this is the fight. I mean, [118:29] >> Mener is so tough that he was able to [118:32] keep this fight going where a lot of [118:34] guys would have got taken out early. [118:36] >> Yeah, the elbows and the clinch, [118:38] everything. He's just getting destroyed. [118:39] >> You see how he's even trapping the wrist [118:41] and then stepping in with the punches or [118:42] stepping in with the elbows. [118:43] >> Clean right hand, elbow. It's just [118:45] Mensor is so tough, man. [118:47] >> He's so tough. He's just absorbing so [118:50] much punishment. And finally they stop [118:53] it. But before the stop [118:54] >> it all for him [118:57] said get out of here. [118:58] >> Before the stoppage. I think that was [118:59] the end of a round. I don't even know if [119:01] that was the end of the round. [119:02] >> Yeah, that wasn't the actual stoppage. [119:05] >> So if you keep going in the fight, it [119:07] gets even worse. I mean, the thing about [119:10] standup is when you're dealing with a [119:12] guy who is a world championship [119:14] kickboxer and you can't take him down [119:17] and he's got really good takedown [119:18] defense and he's got a reach advantage. [119:21] It's like everything possible that's [119:24] terrible about what could happen is [119:26] going on. [119:26] >> Oh, that split right hand. Oh my [119:29] goodness. [119:31] Oh my god. I'm surprised he didn't just [119:33] place after that. [119:34] >> Well, he's so tough, man. [119:36] But the problem is so the durability and [119:39] but the toughness is your problem is you [119:41] get so many holes punched in your card [119:44] in one fight [119:45] >> in one fight. [119:46] >> Whereas if he got hit with one shot, one [119:48] big shot is bad. You get taken out. But [119:51] it's not as bad as a prolonged beating [119:53] over three rounds. [119:54] >> I I always say I call them dings. There [119:57] it is. [119:57] >> There's only so many dings you can have [119:59] in your career before [120:01] >> this is this is the final bo his body [120:04] just couldn't as tough as he is and he's [120:06] so tough. But the problem is that's the [120:09] kind of fight where in boxing you [120:12] wouldn't have if you were a manager and [120:15] he was your guy you would not have had [120:17] him fight him at this stage of his [120:19] career. Like this is not a fight for you [120:21] right now. [120:22] >> We we've got to really get our striking [120:24] better. We've got to there's there's [120:25] growth to be be had before you fight [120:28] that guy. [120:28] >> But you got to know that. And I think [120:31] sometimes [120:32] fighters we could be so egotistical, [120:36] >> right? [120:36] >> That where I could beat anybody, but [120:39] sometimes it's nice to be like, you know [120:41] what, I could beat him, but just [120:44] not right now. Let me beat somebody [120:45] else. We'll get there when we get there. [120:48] >> But it takes [120:49] >> The UFC does not give you that [120:50] opportunity. The UFC is like, "Here's [120:52] the Wolves." You can say no though, [120:54] >> you sheld, but you might get sheld for a [120:57] long [ __ ] time if you say no. And a [120:59] lot of guys know that. And they also [121:00] know some guys have taken advantage of [121:02] those opportunities, those short mo [121:04] notice opport. Yeah, Jon Jones got I [121:08] mean, what was the fight with Shogun? It [121:10] was very short notice [121:11] >> after he just beaten [121:13] >> Oh, man. Who did he beat? He beat [121:16] everybody, but who did he beat? [121:17] >> Rashad Evans had just gotten hurt and [121:19] then he stepped in and take and took [121:20] that one, [121:21] >> right, [121:21] >> for the title. Exactly. And that's when [121:23] him and Rashad were training partners. [121:24] >> Yeah. [121:25] >> And that's that's shows the wildness of [121:28] John. He's fighting Shogun, who's a [121:30] legend, who's the light heavyweight [121:31] champion. Opens with a flying knee. [121:34] >> Yeah. [121:36] >> At 22 [121:38] >> and beats him down. Beats him down and [121:41] and wins the title. [121:42] >> He has to be studied. [121:45] >> Listen, man. He should be coaching for [121:47] sure. Definitely should be co I mean, he [121:48] is now with uh Gable. [121:50] >> Yeah. Gable Stefson is a he's a real [121:53] [ __ ] problem. [121:54] >> But the other thing is this. [121:56] >> You can show all the technique in the [121:58] world. And I I always say it comes back [122:01] down to what do you do when you're in [122:03] there under those bright lights and [122:04] that's the most important thing. And if [122:05] you can't dial it in, it's a scary place [122:08] to be cuz I can't make you confident. [122:11] You could be as confident as you want [122:13] when you're talking to me, but only you [122:14] truly know what's like what's really [122:16] going on between between those ears, you [122:18] know? So, [122:18] >> right. That's where it gets like tricky. [122:21] >> It does. It gets very tricky. It gets [122:23] very tricky and it's complicated. And I [122:26] mean, there's only so much a a a mental [122:28] coach can teach you on how to handle [122:30] those situations. They can give you some [122:32] tools, but either I mean, I think it's [122:34] something that's born out of your life. [122:37] >> You like mental coaches? [122:38] >> Excuse me. [122:38] >> You like mental coaches? Um, [122:42] I think there's nothing wrong with [122:45] tightening up every single aspect of [122:48] your game. However, I don't think they [122:50] could fix a leaky boat. [122:52] >> Yeah. What do you think? [122:54] >> I think you said it like you don't like [122:55] mental coaches. [122:58] >> I think it's a chicken in armor. I think [123:00] it's a [ __ ] in armor. If I know you [123:01] have a mental coach, I'm [123:03] >> coming for that ass. [123:04] >> Okay. But what if you found out that [123:08] Alessandre Pantoia had a mental coach? [123:11] As savage as that dude is, [123:13] >> good for him. [123:14] >> I might be like, "Okay, [123:14] >> but he's not fighting me, [123:16] >> right?" But you know what I'm saying? [123:17] >> That's what I'm saying. [123:18] >> But you know what I'm saying? Like [123:19] imagine if you you found out Pure Yan [123:21] had a mental coach. [123:23] >> That's cool. [123:24] >> But you know what I'm saying? Like if a [123:26] guy is elite already and already a dog [123:29] and you give him just some different [123:31] things to concentrate on, I don't think [123:34] there's anything wrong with it. What I [123:36] think is if you need it, it shows me [123:38] that there's an issue and sometimes that [123:41] issue can never be fixed. There's some [123:43] guys that when the going gets tough, [123:46] they find a way out. That's that's where [123:48] I'm getting at. I agree with you. If you [123:50] need it, [123:50] >> there's nothing wrong with it. But I [123:52] also know that there's a place in there [123:55] that if I could get the right key to [123:57] unlock that door. [123:59] It's going to be bad. [124:01] >> Yeah, [124:01] >> it's going to be bad. [124:03] >> You're joking people. [124:06] >> Yeah, I think you're right. I think [124:07] you're right. And I don't know. I mean [124:09] um Shawn Brady had a mental coach and uh [124:13] you know there's moments where Shawn [124:14] Brady is a [ __ ] right? Like the [124:18] Buckley fight like holy [ __ ] dude. that [124:20] Leon Edwards. [124:21] >> Oh my god. Extraordinary. But then [124:24] Morales, but the problem is Morales is a [124:27] [ __ ] light heavyweight. [124:28] >> He's huge. [124:30] >> Gigantic. You want to talk about the one [124:32] guy that is like the poster boy for [124:34] cutting weight? It's Morales. He's so [124:38] big for 170, it's it doesn't even make [124:40] sense. [124:41] >> Yeah. [124:41] >> You see him in the octagon, you're like, [124:42] that's a light heavyweight or at the [124:44] very least a very big middleweight. [124:46] >> Yeah, for sure. He's a big dude [124:48] >> and he's welterweight. [124:49] >> And seeing him and Brady in there, I was [124:50] like, this is not the same weight class. [124:53] >> It seemed like it wasn't. [124:54] >> He got the he got a big back, but I'm [124:56] looking at him like, [124:57] >> look what Brady did to a former world [124:59] champion in Leon Edwards, who's a good [125:01] grappler. I mean, Leon took down Camaro [125:04] Usman. Leon can grapple. He's a good [125:06] grappler, but there's levels. And Shawn [125:09] Brady's on another level when it comes [125:10] to that. And what he did to Buckley was [125:12] just bananas. It looked like he was in a [125:14] training room, you know, right when he [125:16] was on top of him. It was looked like he [125:17] was like working a heavy bag drill. It [125:19] was crazy. [125:20] >> Yeah. [125:20] >> I had no fear whatsoever of getting [125:23] shook off. It's like there is not a [125:25] chance in hell you're getting me off of [125:27] you, so I'm just going to work my cardio [125:29] and beat your ass. [125:30] >> Which is fascinating because he's so [125:32] strong and explosive. You would think [125:34] he'd be able to get up [125:36] >> 223 [125:37] probably. [125:38] >> He's weighing in for as the backup for [125:40] this fight. And so he's cutting weight. [125:43] >> No, that's that's [125:45] >> 223 is heavyweight. He's a heavyweight. [125:49] >> He's down to 193 now. [125:53] >> Yeah, but that's probably after [125:55] training. [125:55] >> Yeah, it's not real. He's really over [125:58] 200. I guarantee you. [126:00] >> No, I seen him in person. He's a big [126:01] [ __ ] How are you making 170? [126:04] >> And his power is [ __ ] extraordinary. [126:07] He has to cut 20 or more pounds this [126:08] week. Yeah, but listen, he can do it. [126:10] He's young. He's done it before. He [126:12] started out, he was a wrestler. That's [126:14] his original discipline. [126:16] >> Really? [126:16] >> Yeah. He knows how to cut weight. [126:18] >> I didn't know that. [126:18] >> Wrestling and judo, I believe. See, go [126:21] find his Wikipedia. [126:23] >> He's He can grapple, man. That's the [126:25] thing. You don't see it from him, which [126:27] is crazy. [126:28] >> I see his videos. [126:29] >> Yeah. [126:29] >> Not Not the one where he's dressed up as [126:31] a girl. [126:32] >> I think that's a tradition down there. [126:34] >> Yeah, I know. I know. [126:35] >> They they get silly. I know. [126:38] >> Blowing kisses. [126:39] >> It's a little sus. Like what? [126:40] >> I think they do. It's a traditional [126:42] thing they do down there. I don't [126:44] understand it, but I don't have to. [126:45] >> I never seen Cheetos do [126:46] >> been doing judo since he was 5 years [126:48] old. [126:48] >> Yeah. See, there you go. [126:50] >> I want to see him in Islam. [126:52] >> His mother was what? [126:53] >> Third Dan Judo black belt. Yeah. [126:55] >> Retired when she was 42. [126:56] >> Wow. [126:57] >> He switched to wrestling when he was 10. [126:59] >> Yeah. Watch out for a little mama. [127:02] >> So, he's got a background in grappling. [127:04] That's where he started out. But the [127:05] thing is, the dude's got lightning in [127:07] his hands. I want to see him in his um I [127:10] want to see him and Carlos protest. [127:12] >> That's what I want to see. [127:14] >> [ __ ] yes. [127:15] >> I just I want to see [127:16] >> protest is the truth. [127:18] >> I just don't want [127:18] >> that dude scares the [ __ ] out of me. [127:20] >> I don't want nobody knock each other off [127:21] yet. [127:22] >> I understand what you're saying. [127:23] >> That's that's where it gets hard. It's [127:24] like that's 100% a great world [127:27] championship fight, [127:29] >> you know, [127:29] >> and we'll see what happens. Listen, if [127:34] >> Islam may retire, [127:36] >> I I can feel it. I can feel it. [127:37] >> He may retire. He's done a lot. He's [127:40] He's competed in two different weight [127:42] classes and won world championships in [127:43] two different weight classes. If he [127:44] beats Ian, if he submits Ian and says, [127:47] "I've had enough. I'm going to do what [127:49] Khabib did and I'm going to coach now." [127:51] I could see that. And then I could see [127:53] Morales [127:55] >> protest [127:55] >> and protest for the [ __ ] undisputed [127:58] title. [127:59] >> Yeah, that's the way to go. [128:00] >> Protest scares the [ __ ] out of me, dude. [128:02] Because I I [128:03] >> he's to me he's the scariest because he [128:06] does weird [ __ ] in there where like he [128:08] he sets you up with stuff like he does [128:10] that setup where he fakes a punch and [128:13] dives in with that left knee to the [128:14] body. [128:15] >> Yeah. Nasty. [128:16] >> And his punching power is [ __ ] crazy, [128:19] man. [128:19] >> All while his hands are down here. [128:21] >> Hands down there and having fun. Having [128:23] fun. Relaxing. Like when JDM took him [128:26] down, he's like, "Why? Why we wrestling, [128:28] my friend? People don't want to see [128:30] wrestling. Come on, let me up. [128:34] >> But JDM's the boxer, so I thought it was [128:36] going to be more competitive. [128:37] >> JDM's pretty complete. Um, you know, JDM [128:41] supposedly in the Islam fight had a [128:42] really bad back. It was pretty [ __ ] up [128:45] and really struggled with uh wrestling [128:48] uh getting ready for that fight. That's [128:49] the word. Um, and you know, even if he [128:52] didn't, there's levels and Islam's level [128:55] is the highest level. He's the the [128:57] highest level when it comes to [128:58] grappling. There's no one higher in that [129:00] division than Islam. His [ __ ] his [129:02] squeeze is extraordinary. [129:04] >> That's why I want to train with those [129:06] guys. Yeah. Just give me a week. One, [129:07] two weeks and forget. Send them to [129:09] Dagistan. Two, three years. Forget. [129:12] >> I'll be good with that. Would you want [129:13] to go down there and train with those [129:15] guys? [129:15] >> I I would go down for a bit. Why don't [129:16] you go down? [129:18] >> I got this. I got the cigars. I got my [129:21] training partners. [129:22] >> I understand. But time is of the [129:24] essence. There's not much time left. If [129:25] you want to find out, it has to be now. [129:27] >> I know. You can't go down there when [129:29] you're 40. [129:29] >> Or maybe I'm like Mighty Mouse when I'm [129:31] retired. I go train everywhere. [129:33] >> Or George. George St. Pierre does that. [129:35] He's down here all the time training [129:36] with Gordon Ryan. [129:37] >> Yeah, that would be fun, you know. But [129:39] >> George is like a real martial artist. [129:41] You know what I mean? Like never got out [129:43] of shape. [129:43] >> He's the man. [129:44] >> He's the man and he's so cool. He was [129:47] he, you know, he plays chess at a really [129:49] high level. [129:49] >> I play chess. [129:50] >> You play chess, too? [129:51] >> I play chess. [129:52] >> Are you good? [129:52] >> I'm about a 1400. I'm about a 1350 to [129:55] 1420 [129:56] ELO. Is that good? [129:58] >> It's supposed to be good. Decent for [130:00] like I'm not like a grandmaster which is [130:01] like 2500 or some [ __ ] or 3,000. [130:04] >> How often do you play? [130:05] >> Every day. [130:06] >> Really? [130:07] >> Every day. But I play five minute games [130:08] because it's similar to like a fight. [130:10] Like you got to know and make your [130:12] strategies, make your attacks. Some guys [130:14] they play 10-minute games. I'm like, [130:15] "Bro, I'm too busy to play 10-minute [130:16] games. I got to Where did you learn?" [130:19] >> I started playing after CO during COVID [130:21] when Queen's Gambit came out. [130:23] >> Ah. And I used to think chess was like, [130:25] "Oh, that's a gay that's a gay thing. [130:27] This is like so stupid. Play checkers [130:29] like a man." And [130:30] >> why play checkers like a man is the [130:32] dumbest thing I've ever heard. [130:33] >> Yeah. Then I realized really quick I was [130:34] like, "Oh, this is this is some highle [130:37] [ __ ] This is not for stupid people. [130:39] This is for intellects. Like you have to [130:41] understand what you're actually doing, [130:42] strategizing, setting people up." [130:44] >> Kind of like a fight. It's a fascinating [130:46] game. Um George was playing James [130:48] Macccan. James Macan's hilarious [130:50] comedian from uh Australia. And George [130:53] and James is very smart and really good [130:55] chess player and George and him were [130:57] going to war [130:58] >> in the green room of the mothership and [131:00] we were all like, "Oh shit." Yeah. Yeah. [131:02] They had a board. [131:04] >> Yeah. [131:04] >> Oh man. [131:05] >> Guys play at the mothership all the [131:06] time. Brian Simpson and Tony Hinchcliffe [131:08] play all the time. [131:09] >> Okay. [131:10] >> Yeah. They get serious about chess. [131:11] >> Challenge. Challenge accepted. [131:12] >> Yeah man. I don't play but I'm scared. [131:15] I'm scared to play. [131:16] >> Yeah. [131:16] >> Yeah. [131:17] >> It's it's addicting. [131:18] >> That's the problem. [131:19] >> It's cuz then you want to you want to [131:20] know the openings. You want to know the [131:22] strategies. You want to know, okay, if I [131:23] do this sacrifice, and there's so many [131:26] little [131:26] >> Now, did you learn by reading books? Did [131:28] you learn by watching videos? How'd you [131:30] learn? [131:31] >> Um, I downloaded the app during COVID [131:34] and that was it. I was hooked. [131:36] >> And so, how did you learn how to move? [131:40] >> Um, the game. So, the game you could [131:42] start like beginner level. It tells you [131:44] what pieces like does what. Like the [131:46] pawn can only go forward. It can only [131:47] capture sideways. The knight can only do [131:49] like this L-shaped thing forward, [131:51] backwards. [131:52] >> And [131:53] >> so you just learn from the app. [131:54] >> Yeah. [131:55] >> Oh, wow. [131:55] >> And then I started watching videos and [131:57] then I was watching hourlong videos and [131:59] tutorials. I was like, "All right, the [132:01] hooks are in." Bro, we had Magnus [132:02] Carlson on the podcast and Tony sat in [132:04] with it cuz you know Tony plays and it [132:06] was like watching a guy and talking [132:08] watching his mind move and just talking [132:11] to him about how he does it and how he [132:13] strategizes and you know he's the [132:14] greatest of all time. Yeah. So having [132:16] him like explain the game to you, you [132:18] just go, "Whoa, [132:20] >> there's just so many there's so many [132:23] moves. It's so complex. There's so much [132:26] going on. There's so many so many steps [132:29] in advance you're playing. [132:32] >> It's cool. [132:33] >> Yeah, [132:33] >> it's cool. But [132:34] >> it's something you can play forever, [132:36] too. Regardless of your physical [132:38] ability, you know, you don't have to [132:39] ever worry about getting out of shape to [132:41] play chess." [132:42] >> Yeah. Uh [132:46] I want to I I have some of my friends uh [132:48] that did some time and that's where they [132:50] learned that's where they learned how to [132:52] play. [132:52] >> And uh we we'd play from time to time. [132:55] Uh but then I come to find out like they [132:58] were really good at the time because I [132:59] wasn't really good. I thought I was good [133:01] but I really wasn't. And then really [133:02] quickly I realized, oh these guys really [133:05] >> they're like that good. [133:06] >> They're like low level [133:08] >> you know. So it's it's very intellectual [133:11] game. That's why I really really enjoy [133:12] it. When I was playing pool in New York, [133:14] there was this kid who was a a a young [133:16] player who like when he was really [133:18] young, he was playing in tournaments all [133:20] over the place. He was like really good. [133:22] And there was a dude who got out of [133:23] prison and learned how to play in his [133:25] head in prison because they didn't have [133:27] a board. [133:27] >> And so this kid and this old dude were [133:30] sitting there playing chess in their [133:32] head and they would call out the moves [133:34] and they had the the the whole board [133:36] mapped. I was fascinated. I was like, [133:37] "This is crazy." [133:39] >> That's really hard to do. [133:41] >> Yeah. And you al also have to agree [133:43] where the pieces are. [133:44] >> Yeah. Yeah. [133:45] >> You know what I mean? Like [133:45] >> I'm not that good. [133:46] >> You got to rely on and you know this one [133:49] guy had played so many times in prison [133:51] in his head that he could keep track of [133:53] the entire board and this kid was a [133:55] wizard at it. And watching these two [133:56] guys call out moves and just s sitting [133:59] there staring at each other like trying [134:01] to figure out who's winning. I'm like [134:02] you guys are playing an invisible board. [134:04] This is crazy. [134:05] >> Yeah. That's that's next level. [134:06] >> That was my first introduction to chess. [134:08] I was like this is nuts, man. Uh, you [134:11] want to try the silver? [134:12] >> Sure, I'll try it. [134:14] >> I still have some of this left though. [134:16] >> It's water now. [134:17] >> Yeah, I know it is. [134:18] >> Awa. [134:22] >> It's still chilled, too. So, [134:26] >> I like this one chilled. You ever do [134:29] like a green tea shot? [134:30] >> Pour a little What's a green tea shot? [134:32] >> It's like with bourbon or whiskey. [134:34] >> It's like a little green tea. [134:36] >> Yeah, they call it green tea. [134:37] >> You see a lot of the girls, they drink [134:39] it at the bars and stuff. So, we did [134:40] this with like a we call a silver tea. [134:42] It's a silver rum. [134:44] What is rum made with sugarcane or [134:47] sugarcane uh or molasses? Um I think the [134:50] other one's agrical. [134:54] But no matter where people are in the [134:56] world, they find a way to get [ __ ] up. [134:58] >> Yeah. From the Pirates of the Caribbean. [135:00] >> Is that what No. No. But that's what the [135:03] pirates would drink. Why did uh why are [135:06] pirates Why were they so into rum? [135:08] Honestly, I couldn't tell you. [135:09] >> You know what I mean? [135:10] >> I like Arag. I don't know. [135:14] >> That's like rum is like associate. They [135:16] probably learn from the Caribbean, [135:18] right? That's where it originated, [135:20] right? [135:20] >> Yeah. You get it from uh sugarcane [135:22] plants and the whole distillation [135:25] process. This is like pot and column [135:28] still for both of these. This it's just [135:30] a Jamaican blend. Like some of them are [135:31] mostly uh [135:32] >> pirates did drink rum, but the [135:34] stereotype is exaggerated. So, it's [135:35] perplexity. During much of the 1600s, [135:38] car Caribbean pirates often drank wine [135:41] and brandy more commonly. Rum became far [135:43] more available and popular in the early [135:45] 1700s as car Caribbean sugar production [135:48] expanded. Oh, that makes sense. [135:52] >> Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. [135:54] You know what I I never understood is [135:56] like we we know the big players in the [135:58] rum market like Bicardi, Captain [136:00] Morgans, Malibu, but when we go on [136:02] vacation, we go to the Caribbeans, we [136:04] drink all the different rums from from [136:06] the islands. And I always tell people [136:08] like, you have such a great time [136:09] drinking rum. Like why don't we bring [136:11] that here to that to our culture and and [136:14] make it more of a inclusive thing versus [136:18] just only when I go on vacation. That's [136:20] the only time it's really associated. [136:21] And I go, I want to change that that [136:24] narrative and let people rum is for year [136:26] round. You could have sipping rum. You [136:28] could have for Vegas pool parties. Um, [136:31] you can have it with a cigar. Like [136:32] there's so many different ways you can [136:34] enjoy it. It's it's not just for [136:36] vacation time. It's for me. I I want [136:38] this to be something that makes you feel [136:40] like you're back on the island. And we [136:42] wanted to make sure this was 100% [136:43] Jamaican rum. Didn't want to piss off my [136:46] people in Jamaica cuz that's the one [136:47] thing when we were doing this. Um, so I [136:50] went through the whole process like the [136:52] branding, the labeling, my money [136:53] invested in it. So it's like actually my [136:55] company. Um, but with that said, one of [136:58] the things I spoke to some of the guys [136:59] at the at the um, distilleries, the one [137:03] we went to mainly was Worthy Park and [137:06] they were saying the main thing you [137:07] don't want to do is call something [137:09] Jamaican rum if it's not 100% Jamaican. [137:11] I was like, I had a feeling, but I want [137:14] to make sure so we didn't tow that line [137:15] and piss anybody off. Uh, so it's been a [137:18] this has been a fun project and we've [137:20] been having a good time just getting [137:21] some bigger distribu uh distributors and [137:24] stuff. We should get one in California [137:26] soon. Um, my guy Kevin Feler from King [137:29] Seafood, he has a bunch of restaurants [137:30] down in Cali in Vegas. He brought us in, [137:32] but he's a Long Island guy. He heard me [137:34] talking about it on um the aerial show [137:36] and reached out and I thought it was [137:38] like a prank email. I was like, "Let me [137:41] just see where it goes." And it turns [137:42] into something. I was like, "Oh, this is [137:43] actually a legit guy actually had a [137:45] legit business and everything." And it's [137:47] been cool. So, this has been fun. It's [137:48] my passion project. [137:50] >> Well, it's a smart thing to do to [137:51] prepare for your retirement, too. To [137:52] have a real legitimate business going, [137:54] like as you're still fighting. [137:56] >> Yeah. It's not just my name on a label [137:58] like trying to do a quick money grab or [138:00] anything like that. So, [138:01] >> that's awesome. So, where are you right [138:02] now in terms of like your next fight? [138:04] Are you in a holding pattern? [138:06] >> Yeah, everyone's got to fight. Leone's [138:08] the only guy who would make the most [138:10] sense in my opinion. Um, but like I [138:13] said, I heard he was hurt. I think Diego [138:15] Lopez is supposed to have somebody. He's [138:17] fighting. [138:17] >> I think he's fighting lightweight now. [138:18] >> That's what I heard. [138:19] >> I heard Diego is moving up, which makes [138:20] sense because he's big. [138:21] >> He's a big dude. [138:22] >> He's big. And after he beat Steve [138:24] Garcia, which was a crazy fight. [138:27] >> I got my thoughts on that. [138:29] >> What's that? [138:29] >> I got my thoughts on that. [138:30] >> What are your thoughts on that? [138:34] >> Think about it while you're lighting [138:36] that cigar. [138:39] >> Pause. [138:40] >> So, [138:42] coming for that ass. I'm coming on that [138:44] ass. No, I'm coming for that. I still [138:47] get I remember that. [138:48] >> I still get those messages till this [138:50] day, bro. It's the funniest thing. I was [138:52] like, "Yeah, [138:53] >> you just got done with a fight. What are [138:55] you going to do?" [138:55] >> My adrenaline was through the roof. I'm [138:57] on Cloud9. I just submitted the [138:59] boogeyman of the division. Um, even back [139:02] then, my managers, I heard talk that [139:06] they thought he was going to be the [139:07] first champ for their management [139:09] company. And I took that as as Michael [139:13] Jordan would say, I took that [ __ ] [139:14] personal, you know. So, and I'm so glad [139:17] I proved the point. And um yeah, I was [139:20] just on a whole another level. But yeah, [139:22] Leon is out. Um Garcia just lost. Arnold [139:26] Allen just had a great fight with uh [139:28] Costa. Uh he lost to Gene Silva before [139:30] that. Um most invoke. We know that. I [139:34] fought most already. [139:35] >> And Gene Silva's got a fight too now, [139:37] right? [139:37] >> He's supposed to be fighting Yair. [139:39] That's [139:39] >> at least those those are the rumors I [139:40] saw circulating on. [139:42] >> That's right. That's an interesting [139:43] fight. [139:44] >> That'd be a fun one. [139:45] >> Year is always a wild card. [139:46] >> Yeah, that dude can kick. [139:48] >> I was going to say his kicks. [139:49] >> If there's a guy I don't want to fight [139:51] is that [ __ ] because I know what [139:53] the kicks do and I'm like I don't want [139:55] to I don't want to be on the receiving [139:56] end of that. [139:57] >> Yeah, his kicks are crazy. [139:58] >> Baseball bats getting swung at your [140:00] head. [140:00] >> And he's so dex He's got so much [140:02] dexterity. Like he can whip those kicks [140:04] around from anywhere. He's so light on [140:07] his feet, man. Those kicks are [140:09] extraordinary. Yaire is one of He's one [140:11] of the best kickers in the sport by%. [140:13] >> 100%. [140:14] >> People think I have like a kicking [140:15] background. I'm like, "No, I just watch [140:17] a lot of VHS tapes when I was a kid and [140:20] played White Tiger, White Lion, and all [140:23] that stuff with my brothers growing up. [140:24] Is [140:25] >> that how you learned how to kick?" [140:26] Basically, we just see what we did on [140:28] the on the TV and just start imitating [140:29] it. And then we have these battles. I'm [140:32] a family of 20, so I got a huge family. [140:34] >> Wow. That's crazy. That's huge. [140:36] >> Yeah. Well, the boys, we we went to war [140:40] with each other. [140:41] >> And you just learned from watching [140:42] movies? [140:42] >> We learned from watching movies. We [140:44] didn't we didn't do anything traditional [140:45] like no martial arts traditional [140:48] background. [140:48] >> So, when did you first like get like [140:51] someone teach you technically how to [140:53] kick? [140:54] >> Um, I forget the guy's name, but when I [140:57] was at Team Bomb Squad in New York when [140:59] I was in college and I was I was just [141:01] starting off as an amateur and early [141:03] pro. Uh we had this Muay Thai guy come [141:05] up stone something I I want to say but [141:08] uh that's the first he was working with [141:10] Jon Jones. He was the first guy like [141:11] showing John the elbows, the knees and [141:13] stuff [141:14] >> and that's where I first first started [141:17] learning how to do like traditional Muay [141:19] Thai kicks. Then I worked with this [141:21] other guy named Primo Bellarose. He was [141:23] really good for me to work with. Um [141:25] Irish guy had a ton of Muay Thai fights. [141:28] Um, and then when I came to Long Island, [141:30] I didn't really have like a I I still [141:32] don't even have like a set Muay Thai [141:34] instructor or anything like that. I just [141:35] kind of know what I know from back then [141:37] and I kind of just blended in where it [141:39] makes sense. [141:39] >> I know you train in Vegas sometimes, [141:41] too. I've seen you at school. [141:42] >> You live there now? 100%. [141:44] >> Yeah. [141:44] >> Wow. What made you decide to do that? [141:46] >> Yeah. My home's always going to be in [141:48] New York, but I live in Vegas now. It's [141:50] the fight capital of the world. Um, [141:53] business for me over there, it's doing [141:55] really, really well. And um [141:57] >> is it because you get more training [141:58] partners, more partners, more coaching? [142:01] Uh and you know what? Are [142:02] >> you still at Syndicate? [142:03] >> No, I was Morab was at Syndicate, right? [142:06] >> I would go to syndicate. [142:07] >> That's why I saw you training. [142:08] >> Yeah, I would go down there to help him [142:09] out for his fights. I started at XC. [142:11] That's where I trained with FZ with [142:12] Nick. [142:13] >> The training times were a little bit odd [142:15] for me. It was like 3:30 pro classes and [142:17] stuff like that. Um but I think the [142:19] sport's still kind of backwards. People [142:22] doing all these classes. I think in the [142:25] beginning is good, but I think [142:27] eventually you have to get to that [142:28] oneonone Ilia Taporio, an Ali, a Henry [142:32] Cudo, a Mighty Mouse the way these guys [142:34] are doing it. Even [142:35] >> tailored structured training camps for [142:37] you [142:38] >> like a boxing camp, right? [142:39] >> Right. And even when I was back home in [142:40] New York, that's basically how we [142:42] essentially ran it. you know, I was [142:44] running all the stuff that we were doing [142:45] and you know, Ray and those guys would [142:47] come down and for for sparring and I go [142:49] to Sarah's for BJJ working a lot with [142:52] Jason uh Jason Ralph who's got his own [142:54] school now too. Um I don't know if you [142:56] know him but he's he's like the [142:58] boogeyman everyone talks about in the [142:59] training room but for some reason in [143:01] competition he's just never really [143:03] showed what he can truly do. But he's so [143:06] talented. Could walk you through [143:07] everything and explain everything at a [143:09] high level. Um, but yeah, that's that's [143:12] kind of how I I ran everything. But it's [143:14] centered focus and I felt like that's [143:16] the best. Our gym was on a run where [143:18] everyone was killing the game. [143:20] >> So, is it also because Morab's in Vegas [143:22] that you wanted to go to Vegas? [143:23] >> I went I moved before him. [143:25] >> Really? [143:26] >> And then he moved in and he found a [143:28] house right next to me. [143:29] >> Oh, that's perfect. That's amazing. [143:31] >> So, we're literally like across the [143:32] street from each other. [143:33] >> Oh, that's amazing. That's pretty cool. [143:34] That's That's actually great. [143:36] >> And where are you training? What gym are [143:37] you training at there? the queue. [143:40] >> I don't know that place. [143:41] >> It's a brand new um before it was kind [143:43] of like nomad's land. We were training [143:45] most of the classes at the PI, but you [143:47] can't charge anybody, right? You're [143:49] using someone else's facility. So, you [143:51] can't be running a class and on top of [143:53] that charging people and right. [143:55] >> So, that whole thing. So, my coach [143:57] Matteas was eventually able to find a [143:59] place and now just about all the the [144:02] undergrads are now graduates. Most of [144:03] them are just about all signed to the [144:05] UFC now. So, we have a we have Dioni [144:07] Barbosa. We have John Paul Lambos. I can [144:10] never say his name. Um, John Paul, I [144:12] just call him JP. Um, John Powell, I I [144:15] think he's supposed to be getting [144:16] signed. Um, Shane Collins just got [144:19] signed. Uh, he had that debut against [144:21] Atari, the Georgian, which was also a [144:23] friend of mine, which kind of sucked [144:25] watching that fight because I was like, [144:26] ah, I don't want to see nobody get hurt. [144:27] I don't want to see nobody lose. Um, [144:30] Azie Diaz, and I think Morab is now [144:33] going to be shifting over to doing most [144:34] of his camp. He's still going to be [144:36] working with Syndicate, but he's going [144:36] to be doing most of his camp with us. [144:38] Uh, and there's a few other guy. I'm [144:40] sorry if I'm missing some other people. [144:41] Don't don't be mad at me. I'm sorry. I'm [144:43] just a man. No worries. [144:46] >> And so you have Matteas. Not Not Matas [144:51] from London. [144:53] >> No. [144:54] >> What What's Matteas's last name? [144:56] >> Uh, Nakash Nakashi. He's from Novu. He [145:00] grew up with Aldo and those guys. Hen [145:01] Baral, Johnny Eduardo. He's like, "Bro, [145:04] you fight all my Brazilian friends. You [145:06] beat all my coaches." [145:08] Because I beat Johnny Eduardo. I fought [145:09] Hen Bar. I beat him. And uh he's like, [145:12] "Bro, I remember I was there and you [145:14] beat my coach." I like, "Fuck it. I'm [145:15] sorry. I'm sorry." But it's a good gym. [145:18] You know what it is? It's a lot of the [145:20] drills that we do even in the classes is [145:22] practical. We're not doing eight 10 [145:25] punch combinations. We're doing real [145:27] life practical stuff scenarios that [145:29] happens in the fight. So, I don't mind [145:30] doing the classes with this, but I also [145:32] like to do my one-on- ones afterwards, [145:33] especially when it's fight specific that [145:35] we need to work on. Right. [145:36] >> And I think they do a good job. [145:37] >> Now, you were saying you had thoughts on [145:38] the Steve Garcia. [145:40] >> Lopez fight. [145:44] >> Again, another pause. [145:48] >> Light one up for my boys. [145:50] >> Yeah. [145:51] >> 145. Yeah. Steve for I always say Steve [145:54] is the dark horse of the of the [145:56] division. [145:56] >> He looks so good in the early going, [145:58] bro. [145:59] If you watch some of his other fights, [146:02] the one fight, the few fights he lost [146:03] where he was knocked out was him just [146:05] being more reckless than he probably [146:07] should have been. Big frame for the [146:09] weight class. His reach is [ __ ] [146:12] stupid. [146:13] >> Crazy long, [146:14] >> crazy kicks. Um, when he gets you on the [146:16] ground, his ground to pound is [146:18] ferocious. Like almost reckless to a [146:21] point, right? And then he's fighting a [146:23] super smart fight with Diego Lopez. [146:26] Diego Lopez now comes out for round two. [146:29] He flips the switch and says, "Fuck this [146:31] technical shit." and just pulls him into [146:33] a barn fight [146:35] and man, he clipped him and he's been [146:39] knocked out before, right? So, if [146:40] there's any way a guy who has a granite [146:42] chin who could rely on it is a guy like [146:44] Diego Lopez. And I even said I saw Diego [146:46] Lopez at the PI and I told him I was [146:47] like, "Congrats on the fight." So, we [146:49] had a little little beef, but it was it [146:51] was more so about who should have gotten [146:53] the title shot. I thought he was gifted [146:54] a title shot. Okay, cool. [146:55] >> The second one, you mean the first one? [146:57] >> The first one. I thought it should have [146:58] been Mosar. [146:59] >> The second one was ridiculous. [147:00] >> The second one was was ridiculous to [147:01] >> Didn't make any sense, [147:02] >> but congrats to him. [147:03] >> Do you think they gave him the second [147:04] one as a gift? Because he's he fought [147:07] short notice. [147:08] >> Possibly. [147:09] >> Yeah, it kind of seems like it. [147:11] >> This one don't like me. But my my whole [147:14] thing is that's why we kind of bumped [147:16] heads. We did train together one time. [147:18] We were friendly, cordial, and the whole [147:20] nine. And uh that kind of set a little [147:22] riff in the relationship a little bit. [147:24] We both fought at UC 300. We took a back [147:26] a picture in the back. Um, but that's [147:28] that's what I said. I was like, I always [147:29] speak my mind on on things and sometimes [147:31] it gets me in trouble. And turned to a [147:33] whole thing with his manager and myself [147:35] and Twitter beef and all this whole [147:37] thing. And [147:39] uh, I thought the fight should have went [147:40] to Mosar. Just being fair based on [147:42] merit. Should have gotten it. Tied up [147:43] the the the division. Jammed up fights [147:45] that probably should have been different [147:47] directions, right? Um, but I thought I [147:50] told him, "Congratulations. You fought a [147:51] small fight. you pulled him into your [147:53] style of fight and that's how he got the [147:54] job done. If he fought him on a [147:56] technical standpoint like that, I think [147:58] Diego would have probably ran away with [147:59] it. Not Diego, um, Garcia. [148:01] >> Garcia. Well, he just unfortunately [148:04] went in when when Lopez started chasing [148:08] after him, he engaged in that kind of [148:10] fight. [148:10] >> Yeah. [148:11] >> Yeah. [148:11] >> And that's what he does. I'm like, if [148:12] I'm fighting Diego, I'm not doing that [148:14] [ __ ] I'm sure I could take a punch, but [148:17] that guy's got mitts. [148:18] >> That's one. and he knows he could rely [148:20] on his chin and he's probably looking at [148:22] me like, I don't think this guy can [148:24] knock me out, so I'm gonna risk it. [148:25] Right. [148:26] >> Yeah. Square jaw, dude. [148:28] >> You have to understand what you're [148:29] getting into. And that's what I was [148:30] saying before about like some of these [148:32] guys, you have to understand thyself, [148:33] you know? [148:34] >> When you look at Diego, he Yeah, that's [148:36] good. Yeah. [148:37] >> Diego looks like he's designed to take a [148:39] shot. [148:39] >> Yeah. [148:40] >> Like one of them Mark Hunt type chins, [148:42] >> you know, designed to take a shot. So [148:45] that's why I go like um if I were to [148:47] fight him like I know how I would [148:49] approach the fight. Obviously the path [148:51] of least resistance for me is always [148:52] going to be the ground but he's he's [148:54] good on the ground too. [148:55] >> Very good. He almost got remember [148:57] >> the knee bar, the triangle, arm bar. [148:59] >> Yeah, you could make an argument that he [149:00] could have won that fight because he was [149:02] closer to finishing multiple times and [149:04] those should count. Those submission [149:06] attempts, close submission attempts [149:08] should count [149:09] >> in a big way. And just because a guy got [149:11] out of it doesn't mean he was almost [149:13] dead. Like that that's that means a lot. [149:15] That means just as much as rocking a [149:16] guy. [149:17] >> It it should [149:18] >> it should. [149:18] >> But [149:19] >> judges are judges and [149:21] >> it's that's a bad aspect of judges [149:22] because it's very difficult to get to a [149:24] position like that where you're almost [149:26] submitting a guy multiple times. [149:28] >> Yeah. [149:28] >> Like those are those were like very and [149:30] if you were looking at that in terms of [149:31] a jiu-jitsu perspective like yeah he's [149:34] got the advantage [149:35] >> 100% [149:35] >> 100%. [149:36] >> So that's why that would be a tough [149:38] fight for me but it's the I want to [149:40] fight the biggest names. And when [149:42] Diego's moved up, so Diego's 55 now. [149:44] Yeah. From what I understand, which [149:46] makes sense because he's [ __ ] big. [149:48] >> He It was probably a real struggle for [149:50] that dude to get down to 45. [149:52] >> Yeah. [149:52] >> A real problem. [149:54] >> Yeah. [149:54] >> But 55 is such a [ __ ] lion's den, [149:57] too. [149:58] >> What did you think of the Tora Gachi [149:59] fight? [150:00] >> I thought it was amazing, man. Like for [150:02] for Gachi to come out, it kind of [150:04] reminded me of the Tony Ferguson fight, [150:05] right? The boogeyman. He did what he [150:07] needed to do. Had a perfect game plan. [150:09] And what Gachi said was the most spot-on [150:12] thing. [150:14] I was talking to one of my friends. They [150:15] said, um, they like Gachi on the [150:17] podcast, but they were like, uh, I [150:19] thought he came off a little like a [150:20] little cocky or arrogant. I was like, I [150:23] was like, as he [ __ ] should. The [150:25] world champion of the world [150:26] >> was trying to [ __ ] on him and gave him [150:28] no chance to win the fight. If anyone [150:30] relates to that is me, I understand [150:32] exactly where he's coming from. [ __ ] [150:34] let him [ __ ] talk his [ __ ] because if [150:35] if the other guy won best believe he [150:38] would have been his white rose like he [150:40] said he was gonna do he's had beef with [150:42] his dad like there's a lot of builtup [150:44] animosity whether it was fake whatever [150:46] it was there so let him have his time in [150:49] the sun so but with the fight I thought [150:51] he he the thing he said that made the [150:53] most sense to me that resonated was [150:57] um he changed people's perception of the [151:00] fighter where before people were kind of [151:02] going in there hesitant scared [151:04] and they kind of knew what they were [151:05] walking into and it was going to be a [151:06] bad night. [151:07] >> Mhm. [151:08] >> And going in there and doing that to [151:09] Ferguson changed Ferguson's career. [151:11] >> Going in there doing this to to Taporia. [151:14] Can Tapora bounce back and be the same [151:16] guy and have that same aura, same [151:18] persona that people are going to step in [151:20] the octagon with him and be a little [151:23] hesitant to want to go in there with him [151:25] because of what he's done in the past. [151:27] But then also knowing that, yo, just [151:28] like us, man, he puts his [ __ ] pants [151:30] on the same way we do. one leg at a [151:32] time, unless he could jump and put both [151:34] on at the same time. But [151:36] >> I think there's a physics element to it, [151:38] too. The reality of Gachi and Taporia is [151:42] that Tapora is much smaller. [151:44] >> Yeah, [151:44] >> he's a much smaller person. Look, he's [151:46] got death in his hands. Death. And a lot [151:50] of people would have folded in that [151:52] second round, but Gachi is so [ __ ] [151:55] durable. He's so d and you can't make [151:57] him quit. It's not He's not going to [151:59] quit. You might beat him. He's been beat [152:02] before, but it's not because he doesn't [152:04] believe in himself and it's not because [152:05] he can't endure. It's because he gets [152:07] caught. [152:07] >> Yeah. [152:08] >> You know, and you think about the way [152:10] Ilia put it on him in that second round. [152:12] He emptied the gas tank. Emptied the gas [152:14] tank and Gachi was still there. And [152:17] that's the problem is you cannot empty [152:19] the gas tank on that guy. I I think he [152:22] tried he got ahead of himself too. I [152:24] felt like he was trying to put an [152:26] exclamation point bow tie ribbon on the [152:29] finish. [152:30] >> Mhm. where he could have submitted him [152:32] or maybe just go for the TKO, but [152:33] instead he went for the Kabib like [152:36] mounted triangle that he Khabib hit on [152:38] Gachi and he was in the same position [152:41] was going for the same sequence and I go [152:43] brother this is either going to be [152:44] really dope or it's going to be the [152:47] reason you lose and he lost the position [152:51] >> gets back up and man just everything he [152:54] did in the approach if they had a [152:55] rematch maybe the fight goes different [152:57] maybe to if he does he takes him down [152:59] and does what he's also really good at [153:02] and cements him [153:03] >> or maybe he's more patient with his [153:04] attack [153:06] >> moving his head more [153:07] >> doesn't empty the gas tank in the second [153:08] round when he has him hurt [153:10] >> it was Justin's attitude is so crazy too [153:12] like when he got back to the corner he's [153:14] like good body shots I mean good body [153:16] >> he's the best help like congratulating [153:18] him on on hitting him with a good liver [153:20] shot [153:21] >> yeah it's uh and he man he the way he [153:23] hit him I was like the fact that he [153:25] didn't just go down and curl up in a [153:27] ball and just say all right I'm just [153:28] going to take my paycheck and go home. [153:30] >> Nope. [153:30] >> But it was his last chance at 37 to be a [153:34] world champion [153:35] >> and he did it. And he did it in the [153:37] White House, which is crazy. [153:39] >> So, you're saying there's a chance? [153:40] >> There's saying there's a chance. [153:41] >> 37. He's saying there's a chance. Of [153:43] >> course, there's a chance. You've already [153:44] pulled it off before. You 100% could be [153:46] a world champion at 45. You know it, [153:48] >> bro. That would be the Cinderella ending [153:51] for my career, bro. Like, I couldn't [153:53] even put into words like what that would [153:55] feel like. Like I get like goosebumps [153:58] even like thinking and talking about it [154:00] because it's [154:01] >> well you're better and smarter than [154:03] you've ever been before. [154:04] >> Yeah. [154:04] >> All your experience. This is a LA [154:06] fight's great example that you're you're [154:08] at a you know world championship level [154:10] at 45 for sure. [154:12] >> Yeah. [154:12] >> 100%. [154:13] >> It's [154:14] >> it's a matter of whether or not you get [154:15] that shot. [154:16] >> I and I I think they should hopefully [154:20] and let's say I don't get booked because [154:22] there's not a lot of options but let's [154:23] say [154:24] >> they have their fight. Hopefully, it's [154:26] in Abu Dhabi sooner rather than later. [154:28] >> I think that's when it's supposed to be, [154:29] right? [154:29] >> Yeah, that's what I've heard. And [154:31] hopefully I'm the next guy because then [154:32] it's okay to wait. If not, then you [154:34] know, I rather stay active, stay busy, [154:37] um make money and the whole nine cuz [154:41] that's that's that's ultimately what it [154:42] comes down to. Like, [154:43] >> so they haven't talked to you about any [154:44] potential fights or offered you [154:46] anything? [154:46] >> They floated names. Um Pico's now booked [154:49] with Zo. [154:50] >> Oh, he is. [154:51] >> Um [154:52] >> interesting. There's Vallejo, but with [154:54] Vallejo, [154:56] that's going so far back again for me is [154:58] like it's not a fight that makes a ton [155:00] of sense, but [155:02] whatever these guys want to do, but I've [155:04] I've never said no. Maybe that's a [155:06] problem, but [155:08] um but ideally you'd like to fight for [155:09] the title next. [155:10] >> Ideally, I would like to fight for the [155:11] title next. [155:12] >> And I think that makes sense, especially [155:13] you as a former world champion at [155:15] bantamweight. It makes sense. [155:16] >> Especially if Voke wins. [155:17] >> Yeah. [155:17] >> It's like the fight. [155:19] >> This is a big fight. You can make two [155:20] OGs of their weight classes. everything [155:22] I've done at the bandweight division, [155:24] set the records, [155:25] >> why not? [155:26] >> You know, so [155:27] >> well, I mean, he after Lone knocked out [155:30] Pico, he was saying, "I'll see you [155:32] next." And we thought that was going to [155:33] be the case. [155:34] >> And it changed. [155:35] >> Yeah. [155:36] >> So hopefully I don't know. Hopefully it [155:38] changes, but it changes. [155:39] >> Then Leon loses to Eluev and you know, [155:42] then the whole thing is just upside down [155:44] now cuz Leon after he knocked out Pico [155:47] looked like the man. Yeah. I mean, it [155:49] wasn't looking like the man before that, [155:51] but [155:51] >> Well, Pico's bad [ __ ] [155:54] >> He didn't get no [ __ ] I was like, [155:56] "Dude, you got to slow down." [155:57] >> He's so reckless. I mean, it makes him [155:59] so exciting. But listen, he adjusted in [156:02] the Pitbull fight in a perfect way. I [156:04] mean, he looked like world class in the [156:06] pit in the pit fight. That left hook he [156:08] has is beautiful. [156:09] >> It's nasty. [156:10] >> Oh, it's beautiful. It's perfect. Like, [156:12] they should study it. They should they [156:14] should teach that left hook, the Aaron [156:16] Pico left hook. Him and Ilia Ilia's left [156:19] hook is [ __ ] phenomenal. That left [156:20] hook to the body. [156:21] >> Ilia just does such a good job once he [156:23] gets going and he hits a slip and he's [156:25] just like [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] It's almost [156:27] like Connor esque. [156:28] >> The way he just lines up his shots. [156:30] Vintage Connor. [156:31] >> Vintage Connor. Like Eddie Alvarez [156:33] Connor. [156:33] >> Oh my god. [156:34] >> That was when he was the Matrix. [156:35] >> Who is it? Uh they did a side by side [156:38] Medic with uh D-Rod. [156:40] >> Yes. Bro, I was like, there's no way [156:42] this is like the same exact combination. [156:45] >> Close except for the knee. [156:46] >> Yeah. [156:46] >> Yeah. Euros medics look good, man. [156:49] >> He's another [ __ ] [156:50] >> He's another [ __ ] And another [156:51] guy who was cutting too much weight [156:53] >> at 55. [156:54] >> Yeah. Yeah. At 70. That's perfect for [156:56] him cuz he's big, man. He's so tall. [156:58] >> I think all first rounds, too. [157:00] >> Uh-huh. [157:01] >> Just starching guys. [157:02] >> Serbia is a wild place, too, man. [157:04] They're wild people, [157:05] >> brother. [157:06] Brother, it was hostile. [157:09] They were nice to me, but my Albanian [157:11] friends, [157:12] >> because there's still a lot of history [157:14] that wasn't too long ago. And I always [157:16] tell my friends, they're like, "Yo, we [157:17] are blessed to be in this country cuz [157:20] the [ __ ] we [ __ ] about and complain [157:22] about. These are luxuries, liberties, [157:24] and freedoms that a lot of these [157:27] countries do not have, [157:28] >> right? [157:29] >> And all it takes is a short trip [157:30] overseas, and you'll see, hey, I can't [157:33] wait to go back home and I'll kiss the [157:35] ground. [157:37] It ain't perfect, but we got a lot, you [157:40] know. [157:40] >> Have you ever seen those Serbian [157:41] basketball games? [157:42] >> I heard about it. I didn't get to see [157:43] them, though. I heard they were talking [157:44] about We think we were supposed to go to [157:46] one or something like that. [157:46] >> It's like war. Like the chance in the [157:49] audience is crazy. [157:51] >> The flares and everything, too. [157:52] >> Well, it's the chance. It's when they [157:54] they're chanting you like Jesus. It's [157:57] like daunting. It's It's very different [157:59] than anything you ever see in America. [158:01] Yeah. [158:01] >> It's like the the first of all, their [158:03] national pride. Give me some volume on [158:05] this. [158:05] >> Yeah. Yeah, the flares, bro. [158:07] >> Serbian basketball game. Yeah, they're [158:08] they're lighting that place on fire. I [158:10] mean, it might as well be a riot. [158:18] >> Now, is this actually basketball like [158:20] how we know it, [158:21] >> bro? Basketball style. [158:23] >> Good. No, they're not tackling each [158:24] other. [158:25] >> The Dagistani stuff is crazy. Like, [158:27] look, listen to the crowd. [158:32] >> [ __ ] [158:36] Bro, they get into it. Look at that [158:39] stadium. [158:40] >> I know. [158:44] Amazing. [158:46] >> It's like war. [158:49] I mean, the energy [ __ ] crowd. It's [158:53] the energy is like the energy in an [158:55] American NBA game times 10. [158:57] >> Shout out the Knicks. [158:58] >> It's crazy. It's crazy how much like [159:00] look at all the movement in the crowd. [159:02] You know what I mean? These people are [159:03] active. I mean, it's kind of nuts. Yeah. [159:06] We don't [159:07] That's the one unfortunate thing. I feel [159:09] like our sports isn't as like um like [159:13] our fan base is besides New Yorkers who [159:15] will beat you up for being a rival team [159:17] in the playoff finals. [159:19] Wearing the wrong jersey. You better [159:20] take that [ __ ] off. Um we don't really [159:23] get like like we don't [159:25] Yeah. That's like [159:26] >> Well, those people have been to war [159:28] pretty recently. [159:29] >> Different. [159:29] >> Yeah. Oh, so different. [159:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. [159:32] >> But it makes you appreciate that's what [159:34] that's like I I go back to like it makes [159:36] me appreciate like what we have here [159:38] >> and the fact that we can achieve [159:41] basically whatever it is that we want [159:43] to. It's going to be it's not easy but [159:45] we can. [159:46] >> Yes. [159:46] >> We can we can try we have the option to [159:48] try [159:49] >> anything. Yeah. I mean this is literally [159:51] the land of opportunity. But when you [159:53] see people that come from Serbia, we see [159:56] people that come from Dagistan, we see [159:57] people that come from these like war [159:58] torn Chetchna, they're different because [160:02] their their childhood was different. [160:04] Like [160:04] >> different mentality. [160:05] >> Yeah. It's a different mentality. It's a [160:07] warrior mentality. It's very different. [160:09] >> Yeah. Like I've seen I've learned a [160:10] little bit from Morab and going to [160:12] Georgia, learning the history about them [160:14] and Russia and the whole the whole war [160:17] and everything and the the political [160:19] side of things and then going to [160:21] Albania, going to Kos Kasov and then [160:23] going to Serbia and and seeing how like [160:28] the Serbians are coming up to my [160:30] Albanian friends, introducing themselves [160:31] basically or asking the my friends where [160:33] they're from and then just straight up [160:36] just saying Kasova Serbia as an [160:38] introduction. I would go, "Are we just [160:40] trying to start a fight right now?" [160:41] Like, I don't even understand. Can we [160:42] just be like, "Can we just be cool? [160:44] You're we're in your country. We're just [160:46] accept one another for what it is. We're [160:47] here for the fights. We're not here to [160:48] fight. Just have Oh, before I forget [160:52] this." So, we were at a we were after [160:54] one of the the the nights I think we [160:56] went to one of the the the clubs on the [160:59] on the water and we go out to [161:02] this food spot to go get food. It's [161:04] called Good Food or whatever. And we're [161:06] there. We're with some of the staff, the [161:08] UFC staff. We're hanging out. These guys [161:10] are always great that we're having a [161:11] good time, couple fighters, and um I [161:14] guess one of the guys came over and was [161:16] talking to one of our friends and he [161:18] goes to him like our friend looks [161:20] straight up Dardinian. Like he looks [161:22] like a straightup Ian bloodline. Like he [161:25] looks straight up Albanian. And he asks [161:27] him where he's from. He tells him, "Oh, [161:28] I'm I'm Albanian. I'm from uh I think he [161:31] say he's from Kasov." and they start [161:34] talking, but then sure enough, the guy, [161:37] I guess, starts reaching into his [161:38] pocket. [161:40] And he says whatever he says. They don't [161:42] speak Serbian, different language. And [161:44] we have a Serbian friend with us. And he [161:47] translates, he translates for them, and [161:49] he tells them, he says, "If you guys [161:50] don't clear out in 10 minutes, I'm going [161:53] to blow this place up." [161:56] Brother, [161:57] what? I'm taking a piss break around the [161:59] corner outside somewhere because I'm [162:01] like been drinking all night. I got I [162:03] got to find somewhere to go. I come back [162:05] and they explain this to me. So, we [162:06] start telling the girls. He says when [162:08] the guy starts going down the steps, [162:10] he's like trying to talk to the guy, he [162:11] keeps taking a step back. He said he [162:13] starts sweating profusely. He's got his [162:14] hand in his in his back pocket and he [162:16] moves to moves it to the front and um [162:19] he's just like waving whatever saying [162:20] whatever he's saying in Serbian, telling [162:22] everybody they they better leave. And he [162:24] said he thought it was a gun. And then [162:26] he asked our Serbian friend. He said, [162:28] "No, it was a grenade." I was like, [162:31] "What?" [162:32] He's just casually walking around with a [162:34] [ __ ] grenade. Are you kidding me? And [162:37] just because they were Albanian, [162:39] >> brother, this is [162:41] this is life for these guys. It's and I [162:44] know people are gonna be they're going [162:46] to criticize ah we're not all like of [162:48] course not everyone is like that but [162:50] there's still some crazy people out [162:51] there that still have this pent up [162:53] resentment and anger for everything [162:55] because of the separation of the lands [162:57] and all this but this it's almost like [162:59] the the Israel Palestine thing. It's uh [163:03] all the lands get divided from years ago [163:05] and then you did this to me but then you [163:07] did this to me but then you did this to [163:08] me first but then you did this to me [163:10] back then and I'm like what are we going [163:12] to go back to to BC? Like the [ __ ] are [163:15] we talking about? Can we draw a line in [163:17] the sand and go okay this is where we [163:19] all agree that this is where it should [163:21] be and just make everybody happy so or [163:23] somewhat happy so that we can go on with [163:25] our lives in peace. You know what I [163:27] mean? It's just [163:28] >> the problem is the war is so recent for [163:30] them. Yeah. [163:31] >> Yeah. [163:33] >> I was so I was so like broken up about [163:36] it because I'm just like, "Dude, I did [163:37] not know it was like this, man. This is [163:39] like because you're from this country [163:41] and this guy had an pleasant [163:42] conversation with you. He's got a [163:45] [ __ ] grenade. [163:46] >> Pull out a [ __ ] grenade. He's going [163:47] walk." I'm like, "No, it's crazy." [163:51] >> But [163:52] >> yeah, don't take any fights over there [163:53] if you're Albanian. [163:54] >> God bless America. Well, Dennis is [163:56] Albanian. [163:57] >> That's crazy. [163:58] >> And the chance he was getting [164:01] Basically what they told me to translate [164:02] to was kill Albanians. [164:04] And I'm laughing because I don't [164:07] understand every anything. I'm just [164:08] laughing because I'm like, "Yo, this is [164:09] sick. You're in the main event." This [164:10] was like me fighting Omi in the main [164:12] event. The crowd was packed. They could [164:14] not wait for Dennis to make that walk. [164:16] Booing. You hear Chance Cassova Serbia. [164:18] Cassova Serbia. Cassova Serbia. And um [164:22] yeah, unfortunately, but I told Dennis, [164:24] I was like, "You handle it well." like, [164:26] you know, even in hostile territory, you [164:29] you came in like a champ. You you didn't [164:31] piss anybody off. You were just doing [164:33] what you normally do. You do your ego [164:35] every fight. You're not looking to [164:36] provoke anybody. And uh it was nice to [164:38] see even after the fight, whatever the [164:40] [ __ ] up stoppage. [164:42] He was He got a better reception on the [164:44] way out. There was still some good [164:46] >> like angry fans like, [164:47] >> well, luckily he didn't win. [164:52] I was like, bro, you had won this fight [164:54] here. I don't know, man. We had to run. [164:57] >> They might have blew up the hotel. [164:58] >> Oh my god. [164:59] >> Right. I mean, imagine you fight Euros [165:01] Medic over there and you you beat him, [165:04] >> bro. I don't even know if I I'm supposed [165:05] to say this, but his dad was told when [165:07] he got to the I guess the hotel that he [165:09] wasn't welcome here. He had to go all [165:11] the way back to Albania. [165:13] >> Really? [165:14] >> He drove all the way down and had to [165:15] drive all the way back. [165:17] >> Wow. That's sad. [165:18] >> Cuz his last name. Holy [ __ ] [165:21] >> Yeah. They told me you're not welcome [165:22] here. [165:23] >> Like this is [165:24] >> God bless America. [165:25] >> Yeah. [165:25] >> Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Like in [165:27] America, like when Russians fight in the [165:29] UFC, everybody cheers. [165:32] >> Oh, I got the biggest reception. [165:34] >> But I mean, even now, even now in the [165:37] middle of the Ukraine war and all that [165:38] [ __ ] like when Russians fight over [165:40] here, nobody cares. If you could fight, [165:42] they'll cheer you. There's a few people [165:44] that yell out USA, USA. And that's all [165:46] good because it's it's just it's not [165:50] that bad, you know? It's just they're [165:52] cheering for the American but they're [165:53] not saying death to the Russian. You [165:55] know what I mean? [165:56] >> Yeah. We don't have a phrase. We don't [165:58] have a statement, [165:59] >> right? But would you fight in Russia [166:01] right now? [166:02] >> Um, imagine if you were fighting a [166:04] Russian in Russia right now. How scared? [166:07] >> I got offered a raft match in Russia. [166:09] >> What's a raft match? [166:10] >> RAF. [166:11] >> Oh, I thought you meant like raft. Like [166:13] you fight on a raft. [166:14] >> No. No. That'd be crazy. Did you see M [166:16] Rob was uh sparring with Zuckerberg on a [166:18] raft? [166:18] >> Basically a rap. [166:20] >> Uh he did the sparring kick off the raft [166:22] and then he picked him up and slammed [166:24] him into the water. But [166:25] >> so you got offered one of those matches. [166:27] >> Yeah. In Russia. [166:28] >> My second one. The first one was with [166:29] Benson Henderson. Uh that was a fun [166:31] match more so for me. But um yeah, but I [166:36] was just like it was a really good [166:37] prospect. 12-0 guy. I think he fights a [166:39] PFL. Tough guy. But I'm like dude, I'm [166:42] leaving Albania. I just left Baku. I [166:46] have no desire to go all the way back [166:48] overseas again. I want to prepare for a [166:50] fight. I want to sell some rum. I want [166:52] to [ __ ] sell some cigars, help my [166:54] training partners. It's like and I got a [166:57] wife. I got to make sure that I'm [167:00] >> home kind of home. Like give her some [167:02] attention and some love, you know, some [167:03] TLC. [167:03] >> Well, it's also there's a reality of [167:05] wrestling matches that you have the [167:06] potential of blowing a knee out. [167:08] >> That too. [167:09] >> It's real. So, [167:11] >> you know who was the Russian guy blew [167:12] his knee out? [167:14] >> Oh, the Georgian guy. [167:16] >> Is that what it was? [167:17] >> Yeah. The big the big heavyweight guy. [167:18] >> Yeah. [167:19] >> Yeah. Georgian guy. He was like a silver [167:20] medalist in the Olympics. Yeah. [167:22] >> I mean, you can you can blow a knee out [167:23] in these matches and then you're [ __ ] [167:25] >> And all the injuries in MMA basically. [167:27] What were you doing? Wrestling. [167:29] >> Wrestling. Yeah. [167:31] >> The culprit. [167:32] >> Well, listen, Al Jermaine, it's always [167:34] good to have you on here, brother. And [167:36] uh good luck with the ROM company. It's [167:38] called Harbor. What is it called? [167:40] >> Funk Harbor rum. And uh we actually got [167:42] uh a community app now, too. It's called [167:44] joinf funkarbor.com. [167:46] >> And what is the website if people want [167:47] to go and see the rum? [167:49] >> Well, if they want to join the [167:50] community, it's joinfharbor.com. [167:52] If you want to purchase, funk harbor.com [167:54] or funkharspirits.com. Um, pretty easy. [167:57] And we're looking for distributors, more [167:58] distributors to keep growing this thing [168:00] as best as we can. And, uh, the best [168:02] thing about it is we're actually giving [168:04] people an opportunity to help grow this [168:05] thing from the ground up. We're two [168:07] years in as of August 1st and uh we [168:10] doubled ourselves from uh from last [168:12] year. So, we're in a really really good [168:13] spot. So, I'm excited about that. And [168:15] anyone that's been following me from the [168:17] beginning of my career, they get an [168:18] opportunity to now take the ride with [168:19] this. And we got perks and stuff like [168:21] that all listed on the Republic campaign [168:23] for the for the crowd. [168:24] >> I'm so happy that you have something [168:25] like this. It's really cool. It's good. [168:27] It's smart, too. [168:28] >> Yeah. [168:28] >> It's really good to invest in something [168:30] like that. [168:31] >> Yeah. So far so good. and [168:33] >> and good luck in whatever happens in the [168:35] future cuz I really do hope you get [168:37] another title shot. [168:38] >> Oh my god, that would be [168:39] >> it would be the that's the right way. [168:41] The the right way is Yeah, [168:43] >> cuz again, you're 37. [168:45] >> This is This is the time. [168:47] >> Clock's ticking. [168:48] >> Yeah. Thank you, brother. Appreciate [168:49] >> it. Appreciate you. [168:50] >> Always good to see you, my friend. [168:51] >> Always. [168:52] >> All right. Bye, everybody.