Хабиб Нурмагомедов раскладывает ключевые факторы успеха в ММА

哈比卜·努尔马戈梅多夫剖析MMA成功的关键因素 综合格斗的绝对统治地位源自高山训练营极度严苛的纪律、战胜恐惧以及彻底摒弃舒适生活。 在本期节目中，哈比卜·努尔马戈梅多夫详细讲述了其父亲阿卜杜勒马纳普·努尔马戈梅多夫的严苛教导、达吉斯坦斯巴达式的训练条件，以及塑造了冠军心态的高原山地文化。他分享了职业生涯转折点的回忆，包括从自由式摔跤转向战斗桑搏、与康纳·麦格雷戈的对决以及对战贾斯汀·盖奇的最后一场比赛。此外，努尔马戈梅多夫还讨论了青年时期偶像（菲多·艾米连科和乔治·圣皮埃尔）的精神遗产、他当下的执教工作、对足球的热爱，以及宗教信仰和纪律在人生中的核心作用。 第500期是莱克斯·弗里德曼播客中首期完全用其母语俄语录制、并采用ElevenLabs技术配音的节目。 (0:00) 达吉斯坦艰苦的高山训练环境与斯巴达式拳馆，孕育了源自高山生存文化的独特武术流派。 (1:35) 阿卜杜勒马纳普·努尔马戈梅多夫在海拔1500至1600米的西尔迪村设立了基础训练营，以此自然提升运动员的耐力与纪律。 (20:11) 名望、金钱和安逸会毁掉大多数运动员，而保持在顶峰则需要清醒认识到在死亡面前人人平等。 (24:53) 哈比卜职业生涯的主要驱动力是对失败的恐惧，这种恐惧促使他在赛前100天开启极度严苛的自律模式并坚持一日三练。 (35:34)

Former UFC lightweight champion Khabib Nurmagomedov argues that sustained combat dominance is forged not by talent or affluence, but by extreme environmental austerity, multidisciplinary discipline, generational coaching systems, and an uncompromising spiritual foundation. Austerity and Dagestan's Highlander Warrior Ethos (5:02) Nurmagomedov attributes Dagestan's dense concentration of world champions to an interplay between historical geography and spartan conditions. Situated in a mountain bottleneck between the Caspian Sea and the Caucasus, the region resisted centuries of imperial invasions—from the Mongol hordes to the Russian Empire—forging a durable highlander survival ethos. In modern training, this heritage manifested in gyms with a single cold shower serving seventy athletes, as well as high-altitude camps such as Sildi at 1,500 to 1,600 meters above sea level to enhance aerobic capacity and endurance. Contrasting combat sports with infrastructure-heavy games like football, Nurmagomedov contends that affluence actively undermines fighter development. Combat sports require only basic mats, shoes, shorts, and elite instruction. In his view, growing up in luxury strips athletes of the psychological hunger and willingness to endure daily physical exhaustion and injury, leaving genuine adversity and material need as the primary engines of elite martial success. Abdulmanap's Pedagogical Rigor and Combat Diversification (44:11) Nurmagomedov credits his late father, Abdulmanap Nurmagomedov, with establishing an unforgiving 'black room' training system designed to weed out mental frailty. As a teenager training alongside adult world champions, Khabib was subjected to strict gym hierarchies, grueling three-a-day workouts, and structured manual labor during high-altitude summer camps—such as digging two-to-three-meter pits into mountain soil to serve as subterranean refrigerators. To prevent adolescence from drifting into idle distraction, Abdulmanap also enforced intellectual discipline, requiring Khabib to manually copy geographical texts and memorize profiles of roughly 193 nations from the book *Countries and Peoples*. Athletically, Abdulmanap mandated cross-disciplinary competition across freestyle wrestling, judo, sport Sambo, combat Sambo, and pankration to normalize tournament pressure and weight-cutting. After witnessing his cousin Abdurakhman execute a fight-ending triangle choke against an elite wrestler in 2002, Khabib shifted focus toward combat Sambo, realizing that traditional wrestling leaves an athlete vulnerable once placed on their back, whereas mixed disciplines turn defensive positions into offensive opportunities. Top-Control Mechanics, Fight Psychology, and Rivalries (75:15) Nurmagomedov's competitive approach was driven strictly by a profound hatred of losing rather than an affection for victory, prompting rigid 100-day countdowns of four-to-five-hour daily training blocks before every professional bout. Inside the cage, he adapted principles from aikido by forcing opponents into compromised positions where every escape attempt drained their energy reserves, guided by his grandfather's maxim that a dog latching onto a single weak spot always wins. While his 2018 bout against Conor McGregor crossed over into global pop culture due to deep personal, political, and cultural tensions, Nurmagomedov identifies his final career title defense against Justin Gaethje as his most difficult ordeal. Grappling with severe camp injuries and profound grief following his father's death, he honored a private promise to his mother that the Gaethje contest would be his last. Channeling Fedor Emelianenko’s philosophy that a fighter's true duel is internal mastery over stage fright and self-doubt, Nurmagomedov maintained outward composure while consciously absorbing his final moments inside the Octagon. Coaching Philosophy and the Generational Gym Chain (126:49) Transitioning from competitor to mentor alongside American Kickboxing Academy head coach Javier Mendez, Nurmagomedov emphasizes individualized coaching over rigid templates. He describes their training system as a continuous generational chain: having developed behind veteran champions, he became the benchmark for his long-time training partner Islam Makhachev, who now occupies the leadership role for emerging fighters like Usman Nurmagomedov. Nurmagomedov asserts that Makhachev has the technical pedigree to surpass historical greats such as Georges St-Pierre, Demetrious Johnson, and Fedor Emelianenko. However, he qualifies this forecast by noting that lighter weight classes (155 and 170 pounds) rely heavily on reaction speed and agility, making biological aging a much steeper obstacle for lighter fighters than for heavyweights. Spiritual Grounding, Wealth Ethics, and Football (174:14) Nurmagomedov structures his daily life entirely around Islamic practice, anchoring his commitments around the five daily prayers (*Salah*). He attributes his ability to endure his father's passing strictly to faith in divine predestination (*Qadar*), warning that worldly prominence without spiritual accountability turns individuals into destructive forces. On wealth and celebrity, he advocates keeping financial resources strictly in the hands to assist family and charitable causes rather than allowing material success to corrupt the heart. Outside combat sports, Nurmagomedov maintains an encyclopedic passion for football, tracing back to Euro 1996 and Real Madrid's 1998 Champions League victory. He prizes decisive players like Zinedine Zidane, Zlatan Ibrahimović, and Cristiano Ronaldo who assume personal responsibility and take calculated risks on the pitch, arguing that the courage to risk failure is the indispensable quality separating iconic leaders from ordinary competitors. While Nurmagomedov retired with an unblemished 29-0 record to fulfill a family promise, his insights leave open the question of whether modern commercial success and growing regional affluence in Dagestan will eventually soften the spartan, high-adversity pipeline that established its combat dynasty.

在前UFC轻量级不败冠军哈比布·努尔马戈梅多夫（Khabib Nurmagomedov）看来，其29战全胜战绩根植于达吉斯坦险峻地理与严苛环境磨砺出的战斗文化、其父阿卜杜勒马纳普文武兼修的铁血管教，以及对失败的极端恐惧；而伊斯兰信仰与克制的名利观，则是他应对丧父之痛并抵御世俗腐蚀的核心支柱。 达吉斯坦的地理历史与严苛淬炼 (1:35) 哈比布指出，与依赖昂贵青训基建的足球不同，格斗只需摔跤垫、短裤、鞋子与名师，这让物资匮乏的达吉斯坦成为世界冠军的摇篮。在他看来，优越生活是冠军的大敌，唯有切实的饥饿感和困境才能驱动斗士日复一日承受伤痛。从马哈奇卡拉设施简陋、仅有一处冷水淋浴的旧场馆，到20世纪50年代由摔跤名宿阿里·阿里耶夫（Ali Aliyev）开创的技术传承，格斗在当地不仅是竞技，更是保家卫族的古老文化使命。 从地缘角度看，达吉斯坦东临里海、西靠高加索山脉，自古为可萨汗国、波斯帝国、蒙古及沙俄争夺的欧亚隘口。要塞城市杰尔宾特扼守要道，而高山峻岭中的险绝地形与石砌梯田则让山民抵御了无数外敌侵扰。继承这种山地淬炼哲学，哈比布之父阿卜杜勒马纳普在海拔1500至1600米的原籍希尔迪（Sildi）村建立集训基地，利用高原环境提升选手的耐力与生理指标，该基地如今已可容纳百名拳手同时受训。 严苛训练体系与文武兼修的家教 (44:11) 哈比布用“黑房间”比喻达吉斯坦高压训练营：绝大多数人会在极度不适与心理重压下崩溃退出，而能坚持十数年者则如淬火之钢，具备主持大局的坚韧意志。14岁起，哈比布就作为全馆最小的学员接受成年世界冠军们的无情摔打。驱动他的核心动力是对失败的刻骨恐惧；大战前100天，他会进入狂热备战，晨祷后即以高强度长跑和引体向上“热身”减重两公斤以上，甚至夜间瞒着父亲奔赴海边加练，推崇一日三训的极端专注。 除体魄锤炼外，其父阿卜杜勒马纳普更强制推行智力教育与纪律约束。在2005至2007年的山地夏令营中，父亲让少年选手挖掘数米深的天然地窖储藏奶酪，以此剥夺其游手好闲的时间以防误入歧途。此外，父亲强迫哈比布手抄记录193国的地理典籍《国家与人民》，并要求逐一批次背诵汇报以换取零花钱。这种严苛的通识教育不仅开拓了他的国际视野，也培养了伴随一生的专注力。 顶层施压哲学与重大对决的心态 (75:15) 在格斗战术上，哈比布借鉴合气道借力打力的构想，通过凶狠的上位重压迫使对手在挣脱过程中耗尽体力。他奉行祖父的教诲——“死咬单一弱点的猎犬必胜”，在2018年面对站立击打出众的康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）时，坚决将其拖入地面全面碾压。该场比赛超越了纯体育范畴，被他视为如同历史上阿里对决弗雷泽一般轰动全球的文化事件。 在面对心理压力时，哈比布推崇菲多（Fedor Emelianenko）“战胜自己方能战胜对手”的冷静气场，强调正视并梳理恐惧而非将其掩盖。职业生涯中最艰巨的挑战则是对阵贾斯汀·盖奇（Justin Gaethje）的退役之战。由于父亲病故、集训中遭遇严重伤病，加之兑现对母亲的退役承诺，哈比布在极度沉重的心理负担下完赛。他借摔跤传奇萨伊季耶夫（Buvaisar Saitiev）之语感叹，成为冠军的巅峰快感仅停留于领奖台上的刹那，随后一切复归日常。 团队代际传承与体坛领导力启示 (126:49) 哈比布剖析了其团队源源不断产出冠军的“代际传承链”：伊斯兰·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）少年起跟随哈比布训练，以哈比布为标杆；哈比布退役后马哈切夫接过领军帅印，而乌斯曼等新生代又紧随其后。哈比布对美国踢拳拳馆（AKA）主教练哈维尔·门德斯（Javier Mendez）数十年来从未缺席实战对练的战术智慧与丹尼尔·科米尔（Daniel Cormier）的榜样力量推崇备至。 在格斗之外，哈比布对足球领袖特质有着深刻体悟。作为皇家马德里的忠实拥趸，他高度赞赏齐达内举重若轻的控场魅力与伊布拉希莫维奇重塑球队文化的统帅力。哈比布尤为推崇敢于承担失误风险的领袖球员，例如克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多在罚丢点球后依然敢于站上罚球点。他批评因畏惧犯错而只敢安全传球的态度，认为不论在绿茵场还是八角笼，敢于主导局势、直面失败才是通往伟大的先决条件。 信仰秩序、敬畏永恒与清醒财富观 (174:14) 伊斯兰信仰是哈比布对抗虚荣与承受苦难的绝对支柱。其日常生活严格围绕每日五次礼拜（Salah）展开，训练与事务皆依此排期。哈比布坦言，在父亲骤逝后，若无对真主预定（Qadar）与复活归宿的坚定确信，自己绝无可能平复心境。在他看来，比起死后数千年的墓中岁月与死后审判，凡人几十年的世俗欲求微不足道；手握权势名利却缺乏对终极审判敬畏的人，其破坏力无异于“核炸弹”。 对待财富，哈比布坚持“金钱应放在手中作为工具，绝不能装进心里”。他认为金钱留在手中可以用来供养亲族、救济弱者，一旦渗入内心则会滋生贪婪与腐败，并直言“火狱中多数将是富人”。尽管享有世界级声望，他始终清醒防范自我膨胀，指出公众往往只看到名人刻意展示的完美形象，唯有坦诚直面真实自我，方能求得善终。 哈比布的叙述表明，他的职业成就绝非孤立的竞技胜利，而是达吉斯坦独特的地理历史记忆、严酷家训、战术专注与宗教敬畏深度融合的产物。尽管其极端的“黑房间”高压淘汰制与苦修生活方式难以在大众社会普及，但他将世俗名利置于信仰与自律之下的清醒认知，为处于聚光灯与商业名利场的现代运动员提供了深刻的自省样本。

[0:00] Khabib Nurmagomedov: I can help you out if you need... We got this, brother. [1:35] Khabib Nurmagomedov: You hear the hitting, the throwing over and over. And my father's voice, how he's shouting, giving instructions, pushing someone, coaching, teaching. I lived with those sounds. [12:25] Khabib Nurmagomedov: Derbent... used to be called Babul Abwab. It means the gate of gates. Very major trade routes went through there. Very large armies passed through, and it was bound to leave a mark on the people. [24:53] Khabib Nurmagomedov: They live their whole life just to become, stay on the top. As soon as they get there, what are they supposed to do? That's it. They already made it. [24:53] Khabib Nurmagomedov: At the end of the day, after all, we are not really such big, important people... we can't even control the basic need to go to the restroom. [35:34] Khabib Nurmagomedov: After Fajr, the dawn prayer... every morning, six, seven, we'd be out doing our warm-up. Some people might call it a warm-up, but when you show up at the stadium in the morning, you run five kilometers, you do sprints, you work with resistance bands, you work on the pull-up bar... You drop two, two and a half kilos there. Not really a warm-up, but Father always called it that. [56:49] Khabib Nurmagomedov: It's very dangerous to give a child free time in adolescence. They should always be busy learning new information, improving, acquiring new skills... By sixteen, you should already be investing in what you want to turn into. [113:54] Хабиб Нурмагомедов: Я ложился. Мог поспать там час, может быть, полтора часа. Все. Проснулся, размялся и мог идти драться. А некоторые парни не спят по два дня перед боем. [265:33] Khabib Nurmagomedov: The bigger the risk, the bigger the potential for greatness. If there's no risk... you can't put yourself in the category of athletes people will talk about as some of the best ever. [274:14] Khabib Nurmagomedov: Since childhood, religion's always been the most important thing for me... My entire life in general... has always been built around Salah. The rest was scheduled around it. [274:14] Khabib Nurmagomedov: When I lost my father, I remember thinking to myself, 'If I didn't believe in the Almighty... I don't know how I would have coped with it.'... This was the only thing that helped. Nothing else worked. [279:17] Khabib Nurmagomedov: When a person reads, what they read enters into their body, their heart, their mind, and it triggers a search... a search for knowledge. [287:50] Khabib Nurmagomedov: I believe that most people in hell will be wealthy.

[0:00] - The following is a conversation with Khabib Nurmagomedov, [0:04] one of the greatest fighters of all time, who retired from the [0:07] UFC undefeated with a perfect twenty-nine and O record. It was a huge honor for me [0:14] to meet him, to train together, and to have this deep conversation. [0:20] We had this conversation entirely in Russian. [0:24] This was my first time doing so on this podcast. [0:28] And even these words I'm saying right now are spoken in Russian. [0:32] So if you're hearing me in English, you're actually listening to the [0:36] English dub. On YouTube, you can switch between language audio [0:40] tracks by clicking the settings gear icon, then clicking [0:44] audio track, and then selecting the language you prefer. [0:50] For the original Russian version, select Russian. And [0:54] for the English dub, select English. Subtitles are also available in both languages. [1:01] The translation and dubbing are a collaborative effort of [1:05] translators, real human beings, including myself and AI. [1:11] Thanks to the incredible team at ElevenLabs for their help. [1:17] And now, please allow me to take this moment to say thank you [1:21] from the bottom of my heart for your love and support all these years. [1:26] I love you all. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. And now, dear friends, [1:32] here's Khabib Nurmagomedov. Let's try in Russian if we can, like you suggested. [1:39] - I can help you out if you need. [1:40] - Yeah, thanks, brother. I kind of feel it in my heart and soul, but [1:44] sometimes I can't find the right words. [1:47] - I know, brother. We got this. [1:49] - Great. Let's start from the beginning. So that gym back in Dagestan where you [1:55] trained is legendary for its spartan conditions. [1:59] There was just one shower for seventy people, only cold [2:03] water. And yet, this humble little gym managed [2:07] to raise more than twenty world champions, including several UFC champions. [2:14] Can you try to explain or maybe reflect on [2:17] what factors in that gym, those training sessions, that life in [2:21] Dagestan created so many champions? [2:24] - Sure. So we're talking about the gym, the one located in Makhachkala. [2:30] And Makhachkala, for the people who don't know, it's the capital of [2:33] Dagestan. This was back around the years from two thousand to two [2:37] thousand and ten, and even later on. In twenty nineteen, [2:41] we opened up a big gym, a major facility that is still [2:45] functioning to this day. But before twenty nineteen, [2:49] we all actually trained in that gym where there was practically [2:53] nothing. It was just a school gym with nothing but mats, a [2:57] single punching bag, one climbing rope, and a kind of indoor basketball court. [3:04] And if we go even further back, before two thousand, before we moved to [3:08] Makhachkala, we lived in a village. [3:11] In the village, we had a gym right inside our house. My father, [3:15] he built a gym at home, and he was training all the local village kids right there. [3:20] And there were times back when I was a child, let's say when I was [3:24] maybe six or seven years old, I would occasionally wake up to the sound of, [3:30] people training, doing their drills right there in the gym. [3:34] You know, like with judo or freestyle when they're drilling, one guy throwing [3:38] another. Those are my first conscious memories. I was maybe [3:42] five, six, seven years old at that time. So my father [3:46] set up this gym in the village and trained local kids, including [3:50] me, my older brother, and all our close and distant relatives, [3:54] anyone who wanted to come. A lot of kids came to him. [3:57] - So you would wake up and there are these sounds. [4:00] - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You hear the hitting, the throwing over and [4:04] over. And my father's voice, how he's shouting, giving [4:08] instructions, pushing someone, coaching, teaching. I [4:12] lived with those sounds. But that was in the village. And later [4:16] when we moved to Makhachkala, [4:18] well, you couldn't say the gym there was wow either. There were [4:22] only mats. And of course, the most valuable thing an athlete [4:26] can have, a coach, my father. So he trained us there. [4:33] And to be honest, let's say, until I [4:36] became a champion and had big success, we never had a [4:40] good big gym where we could, you know, [4:44] all take a shower together at the same time after training. [4:48] We always had just one shower for everyone, no proper amenities. [4:53] - So your life story began in the mountains of Dagestan in [4:57] Sildi, then Kirovaul, and then Makhachkala. [5:02] And in all these situations, there are very interesting stories. But [5:06] one of the things I heard you say is that the best results are born out of the worst [5:10] conditions. What can you say about that? [5:13] Philosophically, is it correct to say that comfort is kind of the enemy for [5:17] champions? [5:19] - It depends on the sport. For example, let's say in football, you have to [5:23] have conditions. You can't really play if there is practically no [5:27] field. Of course, you can play in the dirt, and it happens sometimes. You [5:31] can start there. But when you are ten or twelve years old, you already have to [5:35] be at a certain level. You must have conditions. But if we look at our sport, [5:42] then what is the most important thing? The coach. [5:45] You also need sparring partners who will [5:48] push you in the gym, as they say, right? And you need the [5:51] mats. Our sport is not expensive. You just buy your [5:55] wrestling shoes, singlets, shorts, a T-shirt. And [5:59] if there's a mat, you wrestle, you become a champion, you fight. [6:04] But when you live too well, let's say, you know, you're never [6:08] in need. For example, you were born into a wealthy family [6:12] and you already have everything. [6:14] Would that same wealthy father, would he force you to do such a brutal [6:18] sport? A sport where you come home every day with injuries [6:25] where you come home with an exhausted body, you come home with bruises. [6:29] Would he really do that? That's the question. And the kid himself, who [6:33] lives a life of luxury, would he even want to do this? [6:38] When we look at it statistically, the answer is no. This [6:42] is where you need that hunger. You have to be in a position where you are truly [6:46] in need. [6:47] - And it's interesting that there's a psychological side to this as [6:50] well, that you need a tough situation to create champions. [6:54] But what's really interesting is how Dagestan has produced so many wrestling [6:58] champions. You mentioned football. Let's look at other [7:02] countries. Why has Brazil produced so many great football players? [7:06] Why does Argentina have so many football players? Of course, you have [7:10] Germany, France, and all that. [7:12] - European, yeah. [7:12] - The whole European side. But those are completely different cultures. [7:16] - Yes. Well, in Brazil, their strength is in their numbers. How many people do [7:20] they have? The population is huge, more than two hundred million. [7:24] And people really love it there. It's a huge tradition. Because, you [7:28] know, without a real love for this sport, you can never achieve any [7:32] success. You truly have to love what you are doing. So they have the [7:35] tradition and they have the love for it, and that is why they play for all the [7:39] top clubs. Well, I think they just win by numbers. [7:43] - Yeah, that's a powerful aspect of their culture. How much people, [7:47] how much the whole nation loves to play football. And if you add to that a [7:51] system that creates strong teams, that's how you can produce so many football [7:55] legends. [7:56] - Yes. Take Dagestan, for example. We love football. I just know how much [8:00] people in Dagestan love football. Yes, we have wrestlers, fighters. There are many [8:04] of us. But for football players, there is no ecosystem like that. Not so well [8:08] organized where a kid can, for example, play at school, then go to [8:12] some academy, then get noticed there, and then get picked up by a club. We don't [8:16] have that system. It's just kids running on the streets, [8:21] playing on the streets, following football. Let's say playing on PlayStation. [8:27] There is no system. There is no selection process where kids can go and [8:31] show themselves, so they can be noticed and get signed. I think [8:35] Brazil and other countries, and of course Europe, they have it. [8:40] So yeah, we have big problems with football. However, in our sports [8:44] where you can, where you can wrestle, where you can fight, in that sense, we [8:48] have a system. For example, the gyms, you know, in Makhachkala, let's say [8:52] for combat sports. I'm not even counting like freestyle [8:56] wrestling or other styles. There may be forty or fifty gyms for [9:00] combat sports, and all are full. If you win in Dagestan, you move on to [9:04] the North Caucasus level, then to the Russian nationals. If you're champion [9:08] of Russia, you go to the Worlds. In amateurs, they notice you and [9:12] you make a name for yourself. There is a certain ladder here. [9:16] But in many other sports here in Dagestan, we don't have such a [9:20] well-structured ladder for people to climb. [9:23] - Can we look at this philosophically again? I mean, you've seen so many wrestlers, [9:27] fighters. Why exactly were these gyms creating so [9:31] many champions? I'm just honestly curious because it's rare [9:35] in any sport, one gym or a small number of gyms creating so many champions. [9:40] - Well, first important factor is the competition level is incredibly high. [9:47] You come to the gym, and in every spot you have good wrestlers, [9:51] ten or fifteen guys right there, and the coaches are great. [9:56] You know, it so happened that my father broke through in the media, [10:01] and then I became a champion, and the other guys became champions too. [10:07] And my father's philosophy, it really resonated, and he became known for it. [10:13] But there are coaches in Dagestan that not many people know [10:17] about. They are known locally, but they are [10:21] very good, and actually they have the knowledge, they have the [10:25] approach, they have the philosophy. [10:28] They could also be at the same level as my father was. I believe there [10:32] are really quite a few of them. In terms of the coaching, I think [10:36] Dagestan was extremely lucky. It probably goes back to the [10:39] nineteen fifties when wrestling really took off here, starting [10:43] with Ali Aliyev, our legendary wrestler, a five-time world champion [10:47] who went to the Olympics three times. That's where it started, with his [10:51] generation. There was Zagalav Abdulbekov, Ali Aliyev. [10:55] Those are the well-known names. I mean, those guys are famous, but there were [10:59] so many other less known wrestlers who later on, after they [11:03] retired, they all became great coaches themselves. And these coaches, they [11:07] raised a very large number of guys who are really good at [11:10] wrestling. And then some of those coaches, they kind of [11:14] switched over to fighting, let's say to [11:18] grappling, to MMA, and they started coaching in combat Sambo [11:22] as well. And it just kept going like that, you know. It was moving forward [11:28] step by step. And so we have a huge number of really great [11:32] coaches. I believe this is one of the single most important keys [11:36] to the success of Dagestani wrestlers and fighters, the coaching staff of Dagestan. [11:42] - Is it more about technique or is it really just about serious, incredibly hard work? [11:48] - Well, you have to look at the traditions, because generally it's just the way it is [11:52] in Dagestan. Everyone wrestles. Everyone fights. It's part of [11:56] our culture. You know yourself, fighting is like fifty percent wrestling. [12:02] Every parent wants their children to wrestle, to be physically strong. [12:06] Our approach to kids is that a child must be strong. [12:10] They must be able to stand up for themselves, for their [12:13] family. It's something that has traditionally always [12:17] been in every single one of our clans, every family, every village. [12:22] It's just in our blood. [12:25] - I mean, it's worth pointing out, and you've actually written about this, that this isn't just a [12:29] recent thing. It's been going on for hundreds of years. [12:33] - Yes, that's right. These lands, Dagestan specifically, [12:37] have seen powerful armies sweep through time and time again. [12:42] Because of that, people here have always had to fight to survive. [12:46] - Refusing to back down, refusing to give up their land or lose their identity. [12:51] - Their homes, their villages, yeah, their families, and land. [12:56] If we look back a thousand years in history, maybe fifteen hundred years, [13:01] there was the Khazar Khaganate, the Arabic Caliphate, then [13:05] the Iranian Empire, or the Persian Empire, I should say. [13:10] Then the Russian Empire, Timur passed through [13:14] there, the Mongols. And if we look at the geographical [13:18] location of Dagestan, for those who don't know, the [13:22] Caucasus range runs across the whole region like a wall, and [13:26] then it slopes down right where the Caspian lowlands are. [13:31] So you've got the sea on the right, the mountains on the left, and the [13:34] Caspian lowlands right here. And there was a city there that's still standing today. [13:41] It's one of the oldest cities in the world, not just in Russia. It's [13:45] Derbent. It used to be called Babul Abwab. [13:49] It means the gate of gates. Very major trade routes [13:53] went through there. Very large armies passed through, and it [13:57] was bound to leave a mark on the people. [14:02] we have so many languages, more than thirty different languages, and [14:06] people just don't understand each other. [14:09] Take Islam and me. We have different languages, come from different backgrounds. [14:13] Islam is Lak, and I'm Avar. When we talk, it's not like [14:17] it's a dialect. We don't understand each other at all. [14:20] But since Islam has been with us for nearly twenty-five years, [14:24] he actually picked up some Avar over time. But [14:28] anyway, the deep history of the region, it all left [14:32] its mark. It created many different languages and traditions. [14:38] Basically, of course, Islam is our primary religion, but [14:42] Dagestan has actually absorbed a lot of cultures and [14:46] faiths. Even our food culture, it is incredibly rich. We have European and Asian and [14:53] Caucasian, our own unique cuisine. So on the people, on the people themselves, the [15:00] last fifteen hundred years of history have left a huge [15:04] mark. If you're into history and you start reading about [15:08] Dagestan, I think you'll get completely immersed and be amazed [15:12] by what a unique place it is. [15:15] So all of this left a huge mark. Look at the terrain. It's a coastal plain, [15:19] and then the mountains rise up. For instance, take someone like [15:22] Timur. When he passed through with a huge army, he stayed in the Dagestan [15:26] lowlands but never went up into the mountains. Why? Because [15:30] you've got hundreds of thousands of troops, soldiers traveling with [15:34] horses and supplies. If they had started going up into [15:38] the mountains where it's cold and there are no roads, [15:42] it would have been too tough for them. So the highlanders somehow [15:46] managed to stay independent. But the lowlands, the Caspian lowlands of [15:52] Dagestan, they kept changing hands. Massive [15:56] empires would roll in, and all of that left a mark on the people. [16:01] Gate of the gates, Babul Abwab. Historians wrote about it, say, [16:06] a thousand or fifteen hundred years ago, great historians [16:10] from various countries. People have written so much about [16:13] Dagestan. It went by different names back then, but [16:17] they wrote a ton about this exact region. [16:21] Many people, many empires invaded our land. [16:25] - So do you feel that inside you, in your blood, your heart, like all of this history? [16:30] - Well, in the past, it's not like I really felt it. I knew Dagestan's [16:34] history, but maybe with time, you start to see it in a whole new [16:38] light. Every year, you change a bit on a mental and psychological level. [16:46] Now I understand. I really do. You cannot just [16:52] be born physically and mentally strong. Your [16:56] environment shapes you no matter what, where you grew up, how you [17:00] grew up, the conditions, and who you had around you. And after [17:04] all, genetics are also a part of who you are. [17:07] So when you add all this up, yeah, I just feel like all of this [17:11] has come together inside me. [17:14] - It's interesting because in sports, we know many of the [17:18] names of the great fighters and wrestlers. [17:22] Yet when it comes to war, there are so many people who fought, [17:26] heroes, truly great warriors. Some we know by name, but most of them we'll never [17:33] actually know and- [17:35] - We'll never know. [17:36] - You write about Imam Shamil, [17:39] that he's an important figure for this region and a hero as well. [17:44] - Well, Imam Shamil, he was known for resisting an empire as huge as Russia. [17:51] Dagestan is so small, and he had so few people with him. How [17:55] did he get famous? He got famous because he held out for a very long time. He didn't [17:59] just resist for a couple of years. He was like a [18:03] regular fighter, let's say, a soldier for ten years, and [18:07] then when he became the leader, he went on for another twenty-five years. [18:13] So, 35 years of his conscious life he spent fighting [18:17] not just some random empire, but what was then, if not [18:20] the most powerful, definitely one of the strongest empires of that era. [18:27] And that is what made him famous. [18:30] And so there are villages in Dagestan that deeply honor the [18:34] memory of particular warriors who came from their villages, [18:39] from their clan, from their ethnic group. But in, well world history, they're [18:47] barely known. Like, take Shamil. He's a leader, right? So everybody knows [18:52] him. But there are plenty of heroes who've been forgotten. But yeah, their [18:56] own people remember. [18:58] - Villages hold on to history. Plus, we have to admit [19:02] that conditions in the mountains are incredibly harsh. That's part of it [19:06] too. Just surviving up there is a real struggle. [19:10] - See, back then, people in the mountains worked all through the summer just to [19:13] survive the winter, because winters are harsh, with heavy snow, [19:17] completely cutting off villages. People just stay inside and try to outlast it. [19:24] And in the summer, they work. Terrace farming was a huge thing for us. [19:29] Our terraces are among the most, you could say, famous and [19:33] ancient in the world. They're known as the Chokh terraces. Now, [19:37] those are the famous ones. But every village had terraces. [19:41] There's a place out there called Marghit, right across from our [19:44] village. People worked over there, but here, in the village, is [19:48] where they lived. I mean, you'd think, why didn't they just build a village [19:52] right there, in the place where we grow all our food? Because [19:56] enemies could easily ride in on horseback. An army could [20:00] easily get to you there, so they'd build a village in rugged terrain- [20:04] ... somewhere tough to invade. [20:07] For instance, our village is Sildi. It's from the word si, which is like [20:11] a castle or a fortress or a tower. [20:14] They built it that way so an army couldn't reach them. You'd have to hike [20:18] down one mountain and then climb up a whole different [20:21] mountain. And right there, they'd plant things like grain, potatoes, [20:26] basically, you know, all their food. [20:29] See, if we had built over there, if we lived there and grew our crops [20:33] in the same place, since it's all terraced land, an army could just walk [20:37] right up, launch raids, and so on. Back in the day, that's how people lived. [20:42] And so all of this took a toll on people, physically, psychologically, and mentally. [20:50] And honestly, well, you just can't be born in these [20:53] conditions, live here, stay here, and be mentally weak. [20:58] You just have to be tough. There's no other way to survive. [21:02] - So you just built a sports complex there. [21:05] Pretty legendary, you know. Could you talk about that? [21:08] - Yes, that was my father's whole plan. He really wanted it way up in [21:12] the mountains. First, it's great for the fighters. Right now, [21:16] I just flew out here to Las Vegas. We're sitting here, like, [21:20] doing this podcast together, but I came out here for Umar's fight. [21:25] And I should say, Umar did his main training there at the new base in Sildi. [21:32] He spent almost a month at that place. And because it's [21:36] 1500 to 1600 meters above sea level, man, it's tough to train there. And [21:44] And the thing is, when you spend about three to four weeks there, [21:48] you just have more oxygen in your blood, you have more [21:52] testosterone, you improve physically, you know, your [21:56] stamina builds up, and so on. And [22:00] this base was sort of my father's dream. He started building it back in 2016, 2017. [22:08] Money was tight back then. It was really hard, but we built it little by little. [22:13] In 2020, my father passed away, but I kept the [22:17] project going just a little differently, on a bigger scale. [22:22] Right now, the base is open, and 100 people can be there at the [22:26] same time, training, eating, sleeping. [22:31] And our guys hold their training camps up there. [22:37] So this was sort of my father's dream that I have pretty much brought to life. [22:44] - It's a powerful story. To return to the place where you were born up in the [22:48] mountains in order to build a sports complex where champions train. [22:53] Makhachkala Gym is a great place, but the mountains are special. [22:58] - Mountains are mountains. [22:59] - Mountains are mountains. [22:59] - Your home village, no matter what, on some sort of deeper level, [23:04] somehow gives you that, you know, like Americans love to say, [23:07] positive energy. Not everything has to be done for money. [23:11] And you know, you shouldn't just look for profit in [23:15] everything, let's say financially. [23:18] There are certain things that don't bring me anything at all except for [23:22] expenses, but I still do all of it because, um, [23:27] because it brings me a lot of happiness and meaning. [23:31] First of all, it creates a lot of jobs. People can work and earn a living. [23:37] Second, it's because my father really wanted this. Third, [23:41] let's say the guys can train and improve up there, [23:45] both physically and spiritually. There are just so many benefits there. [23:51] - I don't know if it's okay to ask something like this, but I would dream of coming [23:54] out there to Dagestan, and not just to Makhachkala, but to Sildi. [23:59] Is that even possible for me? [24:02] - I think we could film a really good story out there. I'm not sure about a podcast, [24:08] but I'm sure we could shoot a really nice vlog there. [24:13] - So can you tell me a bit about the journey from Makhachkala all the way to Sildi? [24:18] - Four hours. Well, 3:40. [24:19] - Through the mountains? [24:20] - Yeah, 3:30, 3:40 through the mountains. The road is a real winding [24:23] one, not an easy ride. If it gets to be too hard for you, we can just take a [24:27] helicopter. It's no problem at all. Like 40 to 50 minutes from [24:33] Makhachkala to Sildi. Otherwise, keeping it more down to earth, we go [24:37] by car, so there's absolutely no problem. [24:39] - I could never get used to a wealthy life. It's just, it's not in my blood to be [24:43] like that. [24:44] - All right, then we'll go by car. [24:46] - Yeah, we could go on horseback, but a car is better. [24:49] - No, no, by car is better. On horseback takes way too long. [24:52] - Um, so you mentioned money, [24:57] and we were just talking about comfort because right now there are so many [25:00] champions. They win so much. Things are going so [25:04] well. How much harder is it to stay a champion when the money [25:08] and the fame start coming in, when all that stuff starts showing up? [25:13] - Well, those are all distracting things. When you become a champion, [25:17] there's a massive amount of attention on you. Sometimes it's contracts, [25:22] sometimes you end up having to fly a lot, you start getting busy with things, [25:26] and little by little you begin to miss your workouts. You miss one, you [25:29] miss two, you miss three. [25:33] And all of that takes a toll, and the person who used to train with such [25:37] a drive, with a hunger to be the best, as soon as they actually [25:41] become the best, they just don't know what to do next. And [25:45] they live their whole life just to become, stay on the top. [25:54] As soon as they get there, what are they supposed to do? [25:59] That's it. They already made it. They've reached their goal, and there are just so [26:03] many distracting factors: money, flights, you [26:07] know, meetings, contracts, video shoots. There [26:11] are just so many distracting factors. And so if a [26:14] person doesn't know how to handle all of this, [26:18] then that person comes down from the top real fast. And I'm saying [26:22] this based on my own experience, from what I've seen all around me [26:26] with the ones who came before me. [26:28] And back then when I was training with my father, his students who [26:33] went on to become world champions, just how they finished their careers and [26:37] so on. And it's what I saw from my [26:41] own observations of other types of sports, how they came back down, [26:45] as far as I've learned. This is a very delicate moment. If a person [26:50] climbing all the way to the top, if they can handle all of that, that [26:54] already shows they have an incredibly serious mindset. Reaching the [26:58] championship and staying there, reaching it is one thing, but [27:02] staying a champion, that's totally different. It's incredibly tough. [27:07] - You're saying that even on a local level, once you become a champion, that's already [27:13] the tough moment because a lot of people [27:17] who start winning, like you said, they stop fighting, [27:21] they quit doing MMA and switch over to fitness. They find themselves that comfort. [27:27] But holding onto it is hard, even on a local level. [27:32] Every single time you become more and more of a champion, you won the [27:36] Sambo championship, you keep winning more and more, and every time it gets harder. [27:42] - Yes, and it depends on the person's goals. If you want to become an [27:46] amateur champion just to prove something to yourself, that's one [27:50] thing. But if you view amateur sports as a springboard [27:54] to jump right into professional sports and become a champion among [27:58] professionals, that's a whole different thing. There are different [28:02] paths. First, you build an amateur career just to get [28:05] into the pros and go even further from there. Second, [28:10] after you've made it into the pros, you become a champion. And [28:14] third, after you become a champion, you have to stay there. [28:18] Not everyone has what it takes. It is incredibly tough. If you look at the [28:22] numbers, you can literally count these champions on one hand. How many of [28:26] them are there? Maybe 15, 20, 30 people? [28:30] Let's say 50 over the last 30 years, and how many have [28:34] tried? For example, 50 achieved it over 30 years, [28:38] over 35 years of MMA combat sports. [28:42] But how many tried? Hundreds of thousands. And look at that number. Such [28:46] a tiny amount actually reached the end goal. [28:49] So for you to actually make it into this tiny list, you really [28:53] have to be like just a truly unique, [28:58] person and a fighter and, and you know, a student, [29:04] and a person who can accept guidance from a coach [29:07] who when they are being guided, discard the cons and [29:11] take only the pros. But there are people who take criticism [29:15] very hard and very negatively, and are very sensitive, [29:19] let's say, when they take criticism- [29:22] ... from a mentor. So it all has to click, and some accept criticism at the very [29:29] beginning, but then once they become champions, it's hard for them to take it. [29:34] It happens differently. A man sometimes doesn't even know what [29:38] he is capable of. Sometimes he just can't really [29:42] understand himself until he achieves success or [29:46] becomes famous, wealthy, and powerful. That [29:49] is exactly when he discovers his true qualities. [29:54] When he is limited in something, in money, in power, in [29:58] everything that success eventually brings him, [30:02] he doesn't really know how he's going to act [30:07] in this new role, doesn't know how he'll behave once he becomes [30:11] big, famous, and a champion. Nobody knows. Some people [30:15] say and wish, "Oh, if only I'd made it like that, I would do things this way." [30:20] I think it's better if people don't throw around such big words [30:25] because you never know how you'll carry yourself once you actually get there. [30:31] You know, it's such a delicate thing, getting up there and still remaining human. [30:39] - When it comes to you, I see that everyone here just loves you. Even early [30:43] on in your career, millions of people loved you. That is also a, [30:48] a tough thing to deal with because maybe you start believing it. [30:53] And you can lose yourself in all of it. So is it all in the mind? I mean, [30:59] what actually goes on in a champion's head? In yours [31:04] when you sat alone thinking about your life, "Who am I really, [31:09] and what do I do to keep being a champion or to become one?" [31:14] - Well, first of all, from the very beginning, if you realize that what you're [31:18] chasing isn't the most important thing in life, then it gets [31:22] easier for you. And then, you know, there are some people [31:25] whose, let's say, ultimate goal is to be successful, powerful, and to make it big. [31:33] At the end of the day, after all, we are not really such big, important people. [31:39] And, like, I believe it's wrong to just crown yourself king because, [31:49] uh if we put it, to put it bluntly, if we're being honest here, [31:57] we can't even control the basic need to go to the restroom. Maybe to some... Yeah. [32:05] To some people this will probably seem a bit crude, but we all go [32:09] to the restroom, excuse my language. If we can't control [32:13] even this, so what can we actually [32:16] control in this life? Look how many people we know, how many great [32:21] people have left this earth. It doesn't really matter how, like, [32:25] big, strong, or famous you are, how wealthy you are, champion or no [32:29] champion. Either way, they put us all in the exact same grave, you know, [32:33] two meters down or, like, a meter or a meter and a half. [32:37] Different confessions, different religions, they bury people in different ways. [32:42] So I actually believe that every single person should have this realization that we [32:48] are just not some kind of big, important [32:52] people here who just decide and get to control everything. We don't get to do that. [32:59] In my case, I was raised under the guidance of my father. My father was a coach, [33:05] and my goal was always to become... To prove to my father that out of everyone, even [33:12] though he trains many other people, he trains everyone, I mean, I'm also here. [33:18] I can show him. He doesn't have to look very far. I'm right there, [33:23] and under his guidance, I can become a champion. I [33:27] looked up to him and followed his example, trained hard, and it was like, you know, [33:33] a kind of a challenge to prove to him that, "Look, I [33:37] am right here, Father, and everything you teach, I will take it [33:41] all in zealously, worthily. I'll follow your program, [33:45] do it right, and I will become a champion." And that was [33:49] exactly the kind of goal I had, to prove it first and foremost [33:53] to my father and secondly to the entire world that I can [33:57] become the best wrestler or fighter. But I never [34:02] thought of being crowned king after I became a [34:06] champion. I was never going to walk around like, "Look how cool [34:10] I am." That was never in my head, and I'm really glad [34:14] that the Almighty protected me from all of that because many [34:18] people end up in a bad place if they act like that. [34:22] - This is a profound wisdom, not thinking about being crowned. [34:26] But even if you don't, a fire should burn within you, driving you to [34:30] become a champion, right? As you said, hundreds of thousands, [34:34] millions of people want to be a champion, but only one can be. [34:37] - Yeah, but that is actually about you confronting your [34:41] opponent. You've got to put a barrier inside your mind [34:46] where on one side you're a humble person, but on the [34:50] other side you're different because you have a goal, your goal. [34:54] Of course, you should still follow a code of honor. You should be a man, [34:58] a righteous man, and know what you can and cannot do. You should always do that. [35:04] But in the end, your opponent is the person who wants to stop your dream. [35:10] So here the boundaries expand just a little bit. [35:14] Right here, you're already not playing humble. Right here, you just step out [35:18] and you want to clear your opponent out of your way, and that's it, because your [35:25] goal is to be the best in the world and they are blocking you. [35:29] Excuse me, but in this situation, there's no way you can act all humble. [35:35] - But when you were training in the gym, what was it that gave you this strength? [35:39] A hatred of losing or a love for winning? [35:45] - I think it was the hatred of losing. Yes, definitely. [35:49] I mean, you know, of course you want to win, but for me there [35:53] was always this driver like, "No way. I am not losing," you know. [36:00] When they would give me a fight, I always tell this to my guys, whenever they [36:04] would give me a fight on a professional level, 100 days before it [36:10] I was... How do you say it? Addiction. [36:16] I was fixated like when people have this addiction. But for me it [36:20] was commitment, that I absolutely had to prepare perfectly for the [36:23] fight. I couldn't miss any training sessions. I would literally have, [36:27] like, this panic. Like, for example, I'd fly somewhere and [36:32] I have, let's say, eighty-five days left until the fight. [36:36] Like, I knew that I had to fly. For example, if I was flying to [36:39] Moscow, I would always pick a ticket so I could [36:43] absolutely do my morning training session first. Then I'd [36:47] take off around lunchtime. And once I arrived in Moscow, for [36:50] whatever reason, I had to fit it all around my training schedule. [36:56] Either I had to meet up before my training sessions or I had to meet up after my [37:00] training sessions. And I simply could not miss that evening training session [37:04] because I had to train during the day from four to five [37:08] hours, two in the morning and two to two and a half in the evening. [37:12] And I needed to I would prepare myself that way. Looking [37:16] at who was in Moscow right then, wondering who I could, like [37:20] pull into a training session there. Well, they also had to-- the person had to [37:24] match my level as well. Not just like I showed up there, you know, played around with [37:28] him. I needed a fight back. [37:31] I would arrange in advance who was gonna come. Maybe some sparring, maybe I'd do [37:35] wrestling, maybe I'd hit the weights, maybe a striking workout. [37:40] So I had this, let's say I always had this tough and [37:43] scientific approach to it. So I believe that more than anything, I didn't want to [37:51] lose rather than I wanted to win, you know? Of course, winning is [37:54] also a huge pleasure, but more than anything, I just didn't want to lose. [37:59] - So in all those hard training sessions, you were thinking about not losing. [38:03] That's the fuel. [38:04] - The fuel. [38:04] - Four to five hours every single day. [38:06] - Every day. [38:07] - There is a story that I heard. Sadulaev, [38:11] the legendary wrestler, told a story that he went to a hotel, [38:15] I think it was in Moscow, to train in the gym, and he was the [38:19] only-- It was during the night, I don't know. He was the only one who was there. [38:24] And you came down- ... And you actually trained together. And he said he, he [38:30] said a lot of great things about you. He said that you gave him some [38:33] really deep wisdom, which helped him to win the gold medal, at the Olympic Games. [38:42] I'm curious, could you tell us now what you told him? What kind of wisdom did you give [38:46] him? [38:47] - I can't remember exactly, but we had really great conversations. [38:51] - It's a great story that the two of you, like two legends like that, just [38:54] met completely by chance. [38:56] - Well, look, he's a two-time Olympic champion, right? [38:59] - Right. [39:00] - I think he doesn't skip his training either. He never missed one back [39:04] then. I believe that we both ended up there because we both, [39:08] you know, hate to lose, and we both really want to [39:12] win. And, you know, recently I came across this idea. [39:17] There are athletes who simply want to win, and then there are some for [39:21] whom victory isn't enough. They want domination. [39:25] I believe that he is one of those as well. They want domination. And for [39:29] that, what does a person have to do? They have to train. [39:34] They have to grind morning and night. And [39:38] there was this thing with us. After the morning, my father never [39:42] let us sleep. When I say the morning, I mean after Fajr, [39:46] the dawn prayer. He just wouldn't sleep himself, so we couldn't either. [39:51] So every morning, six, seven, we'd be out doing our warm-up. [39:55] Some people might call it a warm-up, but when you show up at the stadium in the [39:59] morning, you run five kilometers, you do sprints, you work with [40:03] resistance bands, you work on the pull-up bar, you do push-ups, [40:07] dips, jumps, you know the bands then work with a partner, drilling and so on. [40:15] That's about two hours of work. You drop two, two and a half kilos [40:19] there. Not really a warm-up, but Father always called it that, right? [40:23] That was a full morning training at seven AM. Then I came [40:27] home to rest, and at four o'clock, we'd head to the gym. [40:32] The training would start at five o'clock and end at seven. [40:36] By eight, I'd be home, and by eleven, I'd rest up. [40:41] And yet I kept thinking that something was missing. [40:45] Like, I know that I have a start, a competition coming up in [40:49] like forty or thirty days, and I would wake up and I'd be like, "Let me go [40:53] to the sea. I'm gonna go down to the sea, do some running, some sprints on [40:57] the sand, work out, and so on." And so many times, I ended [41:01] up going out for a third training session as well. [41:05] Sometimes Father would say, "Rest. In the morning, we're gonna have a heavy [41:08] workload." But sometimes I wouldn't tell Father. I'd just go out at [41:12] night, head out, and train. At night when everyone's asleep, when [41:16] nobody's around, I'd grab one of my close friends, give them a call, have [41:20] them pick me up, then hop in the car and head to the sea. I'd train [41:24] for an hour or an hour and a half, come back, and crash. [41:28] Next morning, I'd get up and start all over again. And just this routine, nonstop. [41:34] And when I see guys, you know, when they do just one training session or [41:37] like they say, "On Wednesday, we have a morning training, then an [41:41] evening sauna session." [41:43] What do you mean? You have to fight in fifty days. You have a [41:47] huge fight ahead and you want to take a rest in the middle of the week? [41:52] Well, rest on Sunday. [41:54] On Saturday, do a morning training, hit the sauna in the evening, take a complete rest on [41:58] Sunday, and start all over again on Monday. [42:02] That was just my approach. Everyone does it differently. I don't know. [42:06] I just think it has to be in your head. You've got to want it incredibly badly. [42:12] - So you believe that to be a champion, you have to train like that, you have to be that serious [42:17] for the majority of people? [42:18] - Let's say I believe that to be at the top, the top tier, right? [42:25] One of the best in the world [42:29] A person has to always be, you know, a little bit, let's say [42:32] just a little bit crazy, but in a good sense of the [42:36] word. You have to be addicted to it and to want this incredibly [42:40] bad. You have to take a fanatical approach to the training process. [42:45] Just showing up and working out, that's what hundreds of [42:49] thousands of guys are doing around the world. To stand out from [42:53] that, from this crowd, let's say, who have the exact [42:57] same goals as you do, to stand out from that, you have [43:01] to take a fanatical approach to it. [43:03] - Well, look, I'm training with John Danaher. [43:07] And they train like that too. They train three times a day. [43:10] And it actually feels right this way. I mean, of course, this is how you have to train. [43:15] - 'Cause of that, John has one of the best- [43:17] - Yeah, he makes champions [43:18] - ... students in the world, and after all, they don't just take some random place. [43:21] I mean, they're not somewhere in the middle. [43:24] They're at the top, and look at their whole approach. Some people... [43:31] Look, a person with that kind of approach just can't be somewhere in the middle. It's [43:35] impossible. If you have a fanatical attitude, the right attitude toward [43:41] the training process, on top of that, you have to be fanatical about it. [43:47] You love what you do, and in the end, [43:51] there will be results. Well, just look at John and look where his guys are. [43:55] He creates champions. He finds a champion in everyone, across every category, right? [44:01] - He creates champions, not just one or two, [44:05] but all of them. He finds a champion in everyone, across every category. [44:11] - Look, the people who come to him, he has a system, let's say, right? [44:15] Under this roof, under his roof, there is a system. [44:19] People come here, and they become champions in this system. [44:24] So there are people there who are champions. These are specific established names. [44:30] And there are other people who came and left. [44:34] They entered that black room, so to say, an uncomfortable place. They went in, [44:40] stood for a year, a year and a half or two, and left. Nobody [44:44] talks about them. These are the people who came in, broke mentally, [44:48] and left, and there aren't just a few of them. There are a lot. [44:52] Usually, most people give up. There are many who give up, but [44:56] then there are the ones who come in and stay there for a long time. [45:00] Long, long time. And after some time, they achieve success. They become the best. [45:08] They prove to themselves that once they enter the system, they could stay [45:12] there for a long time, endure, and become the best. [45:16] They prove that they are already capable of many things. [45:21] They can be trusted to supervise big, important projects. [45:26] I would even say, for example, 2,000 years ago, they [45:30] could easily rule entire cities. [45:34] So a person who has gone through it physically, who has lived [45:38] through it, who has faced challenges, passed the tests, they are capable of a lot, [45:45] highly capable. You don't just walk into martial arts and become the [45:49] best. It's very difficult. It means that [45:52] you go through pain, you make sacrifices, you give [45:56] your time, you face setbacks and failures in training. [46:01] The mental strength and capacity mean a lot there. And [46:05] when I talk about his system, look, I mean those schools that [46:08] became the best, let's say, in football or in [46:12] freestyle wrestling or, let's say, in MMA, in grappling, [46:16] or in judo. It's really hard to enter one of the best [46:20] schools in the world, to stay when they are breaking you, [46:24] throwing you, choking you, to improve as a person [46:27] and as an athlete, and to become a champion. It takes [46:31] at least 12 years, 10 to 12 years, maybe 15. For some, it took longer. [46:39] And to get through the grind for these 15 years and [46:42] then to break through and become the best is worth a lot. [46:47] - Have you had those tough moments where you're almost broken psychologically? [46:53] You know, just sitting there, finding it hard to breathe, [46:57] and everything is going wrong, lost in some situations. [47:03] And when you were young, was there ever a moment like that? [47:08] 'Cause the guys from Dagestan on the team, [47:11] really great guys, by the way, all say they've never seen you broken in training, [47:18] not even losing really. But when you were young, did it ever happen? [47:23] - Look, I've been in this grind since I was a kid. [47:27] Wherever my father coached, there were always... Let's take the [47:31] year 2004, for example. My father put together [47:35] the Dagestan national team for combat Sambo and in mixed martial [47:39] arts, which was called no-holds-barred fighting. There were [47:42] training camps, too. I was 15. It was the winter of 2004, [47:49] and I was the youngest guy there. The others were, let's [47:53] say, between 22 and 30, all active [47:57] world champions. At that time, I was, like, 14, 15 years old. [48:03] I wrestled with them, grappled, was in this uncomfortable environment for myself, [48:09] where we always had the rule that the youngest has to do everything, [48:13] and he is always wrong, and I had to deal with that. [48:19] Especially in the gym, they throw you, hit you again and again. [48:23] You have to show up morning and evening, day after day. This [48:27] place hardens you. They say How the steel was tempered. [48:31] Steel isn't tempered for nothing. How many times do you have to [48:35] strike the steel before it becomes a sword? That doesn't just happen by itself. [48:41] - Did you believe in yourself then? [48:43] - Some of the guys who were at those camps back then, they're grown men [48:47] now. Even then, they were older than me by [48:50] 10, 12, maybe 15 years. And they always used to say, "Khabib, [48:56] we honestly thought you were going to become some kind of [48:59] scholar or scientist." Because my father [49:03] was always making me read and write, read and write. [49:09] I would copy out entire books by hand. There was always [49:13] this control. It wasn't like he'd say, "Khabib, go do this", [49:17] and you could just walk away and not do it. When he said, "Go do it", you [49:21] did it. My father never forgot anything. He had a [49:24] phenomenal memory. He'd be like, "Did you do it?" And everything he [49:28] told you, he remembered. He just did. [49:31] - He checked you. [49:31] - He was like, "Come here." And he'd check. I knew it wasn't something [49:35] I could get away with. So, you know, since childhood, I [49:39] was lucky that my father always kept me close, and I [49:44] found myself in this environment among fighters who at that time- [49:50] ... were, I don't know, they just didn't compete in America and Europe back [49:54] then. But in the post-Soviet space, they were the best at that time. [50:00] And it helped me a lot to become mentally strong. [50:04] - Tell me more about your father. You've read a lot. [50:09] You didn't just fight. You were well-rounded and you told several stories about [50:13] this. There was a book, what is it called? Countries and Peoples. [50:19] - Yes, from my childhood. [50:20] - It is, really. [50:22] - Yes. [50:22] - And it went on- [50:23] - The approach was the same. [50:25] - Tell that story because I think it's important for the parents listening to us [50:29] to understand this. You're not just trying to create a [50:33] champion. You're trying to raise a well-rounded person, a [50:36] wise person, a person with depth. [50:40] - Yes, you have to give the right motivation to kids with proper [50:44] communication. My father was very good at this. I [50:47] now realize interacting with my own kids how wise he [50:51] was and how deeply he understood this. [50:55] Because when a child is eight, 10 years old, and when they are [50:59] just beginning to form as a person, it is important to have [51:03] the right approach. I now understand how farsighted my father's approach was. [51:09] First, he tried not to give me anything for free. Only [51:13] sometimes I could get something for free. For example, before a [51:17] holiday, like Eid al-Fitr or before school [51:21] started, Father would give money. I'd go buy [51:25] clothes at the market for back to school, that kind of thing, you know? [51:29] And at other times, he always told me, "Well, if you want it, you need to [51:33] earn it. You want me to give you money just like that?" [51:37] There would be some work around the house and so on that I had to do. [51:41] And I knew that encouragement would always be there. [51:45] My father always had this kind of approach. He set a very [51:49] strong personal example, very strong, and I really learnt a [51:53] lot from him. Took a lot. And then, as you mentioned, [51:57] there was the book, Countries and Peoples. Someone gave it to [52:01] him as a gift. My father read through it, and he realized [52:05] that it was perfect for me, for a child who was 10, 11, maybe 12 at the time. [52:13] That book was part of my life for about two or three years, something like that. [52:18] - It was about 193 countries. The geography, history, all the details. [52:23] - For each country, it describes its geographical location, [52:27] which countries it bordered, its major rivers, mountains, [52:32] cities, history, economy, finances. Just brief [52:35] information about every country. My father said, "You'll [52:39] tell me about each country, and I'll give you money for it." [52:44] And I thought, "All right." [52:46] I knew this was like my own little capital just sitting there waiting for me. [52:51] All I had to do was come, take that book, read it, understand [52:55] it. Then my father would take the book and say, [52:58] "Now, tell me what you read." And he would check. [53:02] He would look through it. The countries were arranged alphabetically. A [53:06] for Andorra, Angola, and so on. B for Belgium, Brazil, and [53:10] so on. Everything went in alphabetical order. I started [53:14] from A and read them all straight to the very end. [53:18] Like every single time when I needed the money, I did [53:22] that. And for example, I go over the first 40 countries, [53:26] he'd check a box, and then I continued. That's how my father would test me. [53:34] Let's just say that my knowledge of geography comes from back then. [53:41] - Did you realize how big the world was? [53:44] - No. [53:45] - As a child, you don't understand? [53:46] - At that time, I didn't understand. But since then, I've had this desire [53:50] to travel. I really wanted to travel, visit different [53:54] countries, see wonders of the world, the Colosseum, the pyramids. [53:59] But all of this is from childhood, from what I read and wrote. [54:05] It wasn't just about reading. I also had to rewrite it. I had to write it down. [54:10] I always wrote down what I read. And actually, [54:16] this is very good advice for parents, you know. They can use this [54:20] with their children too. They can tell them to sit down and copy books by hand. [54:28] First of all, eyesight improves. Reading improves. Writing, how you write improves. [54:36] Your handwriting. And it stays with you when you read and write. [54:41] It really develops a child. Not only I believe that, [54:46] I actually do advise parents to motivate their kids [54:50] this way. You can simply create some kind of challenge [54:55] that children benefit from and reward them for it after it is done. [55:02] This really helps develop a child's mind. [55:06] - I actually saw advice from the great writers [55:11] who said that they remembered doing the same thing when they were young. [55:15] When they first started writing, they just simply copied [55:19] other legendary writers. You read their work and then you type it out yourself, [55:26] and you start absorbing that style into your bloodstream. [55:29] - Well, it needs to be done in childhood. [55:32] When the child is ready to learn and his mind is open, [55:37] let's say as a metaphor, when his table is clean, [55:41] not occupied with clutter, then as a father, [55:45] you can help them place all the right things on the table in their proper place. [55:51] Let's say put the food in one place, flowers in another, something [55:57] like that. It is important. That's why I believe I was very lucky. My [56:04] father did the right thing. He provided me with the right kind of information, [56:09] and I learned a lot just from being around him. I [56:13] learned so much just from his presence. [56:16] He was there at home, and then we also went to competitions. [56:21] He was always there at trainings and at camps, so I absorbed a lot from him, [56:28] and it was interesting for me too. Of course, [56:34] when you're a teenager, sometimes you're tired, sometimes you want to [56:37] break free. All of that was there. But [56:44] my father had the right approach. He influenced me a lot and in the right way. [56:49] - And there's the physical component too of hard work. [56:53] There's a story you told about the time he made you dig a big hole [56:57] just because it was difficult. There's wisdom in that. [57:02] That you just need to work. You need to stay busy all the time. [57:05] - These were training camps from two thousand and five to two thousand and seven. [57:09] In the summer, we went to the mountains. There was a children's camp there, an [57:13] old Soviet-style pioneer camp where we stayed doing our runs in the forest. [57:19] Together, we built a small training area there with a rope, a [57:23] punching bag, a pull-up bar. We did sprints there. We pulled [57:27] resistance bands. After running in the mountains, we would come back [57:31] and work there. There were almost no mats. We built the base [57:35] ourselves. It had a dining room on the first floor and an [57:38] attic space where we slept. We would come downstairs, eat, [57:42] go outside, train in that little sports area, then run in the [57:46] forest. It was somewhere around twelve hundred meters [57:50] above sea level, a conifer forest. We spent the whole [57:54] summer there. There we'd train in the morning, then there was [57:58] nothing to do all day, and in the evening we had training sessions again. [58:03] But during the day, so we wouldn't be busy with unnecessary things, [58:07] my father sometimes gave us work. And we'd ask, "Why are we [58:11] digging this pit?" He'd say, "Well, people used to use it like a [58:15] refrigerator. When you dig two or three meters down, it [58:18] is cold inside. You can put milk there, cheese, things like that, so the [58:23] food does not go bad." And we were like, "Okay, but do [58:27] we really need these refrigerators every day?" [58:30] So in that sense, this was his approach back then. He always had this [58:34] kind of unique approach. [58:36] - Well, what's the philosophy here? That you gotta be busy all the time, [58:40] working hard, doing something difficult. [58:42] - Yes, it's very dangerous to give a child free time in [58:46] adolescence. They should always be busy learning new [58:50] information, improving, acquiring new skills. A person [58:54] should always be busy. When you're sixteen, well, what can be on your [58:58] mind? You should constantly develop and improve. [59:03] And by this time, you should already, I believe, have decided what you want to [59:06] become. You should already be investing in what you want to turn into. [59:15] - By the way, you had several very good conversations with Nurlan, with [59:19] Adam, which I highly recommend. In one of them, your brother [59:23] Abubakar told a story that when you were young, [59:27] there were several street fights, maybe many, I don't know. He [59:31] said he was the one who got you into it. You were kind of bigger, [59:35] and he needed protection at that time. You were that protection. [59:39] Can you tell us these stories? How often did you fight on the streets of Dagestan? [59:46] - Well, let's start with the fact that I never bullied anyone. Never. [59:50] Although I physically could bully, yes, let's say I had the capability. [59:56] I wasn't the kind of person who started the fights. [60:00] - You didn't start? [60:01] - I didn't. Well— [60:03] - Tried to finish. [60:04] - Well, maybe there were some moments, but mostly no. Mostly I didn't start. [60:10] Abubakar, sure, he was like that. [60:13] In my circle, I had some guys who were a little bit like that. [60:17] - He said that he's a bit of— [60:19] - He was a troublemaker. [60:21] He was a troublemaker, and because of him, I got into trouble many times. [60:27] When you're, let's say, fourteen, [60:29] fifteen years old and your brother is fighting. You don't [60:33] really ask who's right or who's wrong. You just go in, [60:37] you start to, as we say, you interfere. You just have [60:41] to go in, right? But when you're older, more conscious, [60:46] when you're twenty, twenty-five or thirty years old, [60:49] this is when you really start telling him, [60:53] "You know, Abubakar, I think you're wrong here. Yes, [60:57] we'll finish this right now, but in the future, I wouldn't want [61:01] you to get involved because I think it's wrong, right?" [61:05] Well, as kids, we just didn't ask. We just went right in. [61:09] When we moved to Makhachkala in 1999, [61:13] let's say the end of 1999, so there were—we were many brothers, [61:20] more than ten of us. We lived in one house. Some were in school, some [61:24] in college, some in university. But we all had one routine. We [61:28] trained in the morning, then went to school. We'd come home, rest, [61:32] do homework, then train in the evening, come home and rest, [61:36] without mothers, just by ourselves. Father gathered [61:40] everyone. He took in close friends and family, his [61:43] nephews, cousins, relatives, those who didn't have a father, [61:47] and so on. He took them in, and we all lived in one house. We [61:51] cooked, cleaned, did laundry all by ourselves. It was like, [61:55] well, some kind of army life, you know? And when the brothers had some problems, [62:03] let's say misunderstandings, we didn't go easy on those guys. [62:10] And even those who lived around there near that house, [62:14] in that district, in the settlement, everyone knew that there were lots [62:18] of brothers living there. So they had to be careful. And we had a football field [62:25] there. It was right in front of the house, and everyone who came to play there, [62:32] we constantly had fights there, misunderstandings. There were older brothers. [62:39] They were always watching us, keeping us from trouble. "Don't do this. Don't do" [62:43] that. Watch your mouth." But we had our own little group. [62:47] The age difference between us was maybe two, three [62:51] years. There were five or six of us. We'd always go outside and play football. [62:58] If our team was losing, then the game would just [63:02] turn into a whole different sport, and that's how we were growing up. [63:07] We spent six, seven years there, almost ten years. We were living together, growing, [63:15] training. A lot has happened over that time, but I was never... [63:21] Well, maybe just a couple of times, okay? Mostly, I was [63:25] never the initiator of fights with some exceptions. [63:30] I just remember since childhood, my father always told me, [63:34] "You don't need to use force on the street." My father looked at all of this [63:41] in a completely different way. [63:44] - What is your understanding of the difference between the street fight and sports? [63:49] - There is a very big difference. I saw many fights where [63:56] if you put those same guys into sparring, in wrestling, MMA or combat Sambo, [64:03] one guy could beat the other very easily. But the street is [64:07] completely different. There are no rules, no referees, no points. [64:13] You just fight there, and it's totally different. [64:18] I can say I actually had a major turning point in my life. [64:26] Let's say the one that, in terms of psychology, really changed my whole attitude [64:33] towards MMA. [64:37] Back in twenty oh two, twenty oh three, my father kept me in wrestling. [64:42] He trained MMA combat Sambo, but wanted me to stay [64:46] in wrestling. My cousin, who was older than me by a couple of months, [64:52] he was training with my father. His freestyle wrestling was weak, [64:56] so my father sent him to me, to the place where I was training. [65:00] It was called the School of Higher Sports Mastery. The local guys [65:04] from the city know this place. He came to practice and got into it with a guy [65:11] in our gym who was heavier, maybe one [65:14] class heavier. This guy was the best in his weight, [65:18] winning Dagestan and the city too. So they got into a conflict. [65:25] They were arguing. My brother had just joined. He was new to [65:32] our freestyle wrestling gym, right? But I knew the other guy [65:36] well. They paired up and they got into it. Well, that's my brother, right? [65:42] So the guy goes, "Let's meet up after." And they [65:46] agreed, as we say, to step outside after the training. [65:50] I remember it was raining heavily, a real downpour. The guy brought his brother. I [65:58] came with mine. We went outside and they started fighting one-on-one. [66:05] I remember he shot in, lifted and took him down. [66:09] Abdurakhman, my brother, threw up a triangle and he choked him out. [66:15] When we went out, I was thinking Abdurakhman will lose to this guy. I even [66:21] visualized it happening, the whole thing. Like, this guy beats him, and then [66:27] I start fighting. Well, I'm not going there for my brother to lose. [66:31] In my head, I was getting into a fight. [66:34] But he threw him locked up in a triangle. For the first time I saw [66:38] with my own eyes how someone chokes another person with a [66:42] triangle and they lose consciousness. [66:45] - Wow. [66:46] - They fought, he put him to sleep. We had to pull them apart, me and other guys. [66:55] Fights over, Abdurrahman won. And on the way home, I'm like, "Abdurrahman, wow. [67:01] You impress me." I came home and immediately told my father. [67:07] I said... That was in 2002 or '03, if I'm not mistaken. [67:12] I am 14 years old. I said, "I'm switching to combat Sambo." [67:17] I said, "What Abdurrahman did, the one he choked out, he's [67:20] not just anyone in the gym. He's one of the best wrestlers, [67:24] but he couldn't do anything." [67:27] My father said, "You'll go to wrestling, but you'll come to me, [67:31] I'll teach you. You'll learn techniques here and so on. [67:36] But I want you to gain wrestling skills." I started going three [67:40] days to train with my father, three days to wrestling. [67:44] And at that moment, I realized that no matter how strong the wrestler is, [67:49] lying on the back is where the wrestling normally ends, [67:53] but MMA only begins there. And I was like, [67:58] I thought, "I need this. I need this mixed style." I realized this was for me. [68:03] I started going to my father's trainings, despite that he didn't [68:07] let me. He didn't want me to do fighting. I think most people [68:11] don't know this. My father wanted me to do freestyle wrestling or [68:15] judo, but in my head, I already had this mixed style. I [68:18] always wanted to compete. I was already getting tapes to [68:22] watch. I always wanted to compete where there are no [68:26] rules, where I could fully use my skills. [68:29] - Maximum freedom. [68:30] - Yes, judo, Sambo, freestyle, grappling, [68:34] jujitsu. More people knew jujitsu than grappling. [68:39] After that, I switched, and from there my journey slowly [68:42] started, which I had already begun. That's when I started the amateur journey. [68:49] Then when I started getting good results as an amateur, I [68:53] realized that I can switch to pro and achieve success. [68:57] Sambo. In combat Sambo. Combat Sambo. I competed in [69:01] all kinds of sports. Everything that involves wrestling and [69:05] fighting. I competed everywhere. I competed in freestyle, in [69:09] judo, in grappling, in combat Sambo. I competed in sport [69:13] Sambo, in hand-to-hand combat, in pankration. My father [69:17] put me in all competitions. He would say, "You have a [69:20] competition here and another one there. Now you are [69:24] preparing for this one. You will compete in this weight, under these [69:28] rules, in this sport." And he was sending me everywhere. He would tell [69:32] me, "You will need this in the future. The more competition experience you have, [69:36] the more relaxed and confident you'll feel. It builds up over time." [69:40] When I was young, I was losing as well. I go to a judo competition, [69:44] win two matches and lose two matches. I would ask, "Father, why are [69:48] you sending me there? This is not my sport." And he'd say, "No, go and compete." [69:53] So, okay, I went, I cut weight. The next day you [69:57] come in, you see 50 competitors in your weight class. You [70:01] let this weight, this competitive energy pass [70:05] through you, and psychologically you get better, better, [70:09] better each time. You become more relaxed about it. [70:13] And this moment really affected me, although then I didn't [70:17] agree with my father. Back then I thought, "Why should I [70:21] compete in other sports?" He said, "You can wrestle, right? Well, go wrestle." [70:28] I was saying, "But judo isn't my sport. It's hard for me there." [70:32] He says, "Well, you went on four times. Look, you won [70:36] twice, then lost twice. You competed four times. You're [70:40] 15 years old. You're just developing. [70:43] Do you know how valuable this experience is for you? [70:47] Four matches in one day." Now when I'm coaching, [70:51] I understand the psychological approach, how important it is. I realize now how [70:58] correctly he prepared me for the big stage. [71:03] The preparation was already happening then when I was [71:06] 15 years old. For example, when I went into the biggest [71:11] fight in combat sports history, when I fought in [71:15] 2018 here in Las Vegas. At that point, I was already at my peak, prime time. [71:23] I was 30 years old. I went through all possible competitions as an amateur [71:29] and a professional. And you know what? I was ready. [71:35] This preparation, it started back then when I was 15. [71:40] It's not like they give you a fight and you prepare for two months. [71:44] Preparation starts long before you even step into the octagon. [71:50] - So this experience of competitions, which started at 15, it continued, it expanded. [71:55] - Yeah, of course. [71:56] - So can you explain what was going on in your head? [72:01] - I didn't want to lose. I just didn't. It [72:05] never occurred to me that I could get hurt, that someone could [72:09] hurt me, that I might break a finger somewhere. I never [72:12] had that in my head, that I could get hit, that I'd get a scratch, and so on. [72:18] I don't know if you can call it perfectionism. [72:21] I didn't want to lose. And to not lose, I knew I needed [72:25] to compete a lot and improve. Training is [72:29] one thing, but competing is different. I understood that the more [72:33] I competed, the more experience I would gain. I had to go through it. [72:38] It was constantly on my mind. This understanding that I [72:42] must compete a lot came to me at an early age, since [72:46] I was fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, and I [72:50] never stopped thinking about it. So it was always in the back of my mind. [72:56] - Were you confident that you would win? [72:58] - In my youth? No. [73:00] - Were you afraid to lose? [73:01] - Yeah, in my youth, I wasn't always so sure. I just wasn't. [73:05] Because I never stood out. Yes, I had a coach for a [73:09] father, and how many, how many trainers have kids who [73:14] compete but aren't successful? And then when I went to [73:18] the big leagues, you know, I had already fought. I had done [73:22] sixteen professional fights across the post-Soviet space. [73:26] Later, when I was already signed to the UFC, [73:30] there I already had this feeling. You know, with [73:33] each fight, I was getting mentally stronger. [73:37] My mind was becoming more and more solid, like concrete. [73:43] When I went out there, I knew, yes, these are fights. Yes, you can take a hit. [73:50] Yes, anything can happen when knees, elbows, fists are flying, [73:55] when you can get caught in a choke, you know? [73:59] But I thought, "If they don't knock me out, how will they beat me? [74:05] I have fifteen minutes. Fifteen minutes is enough to make a person tired." [74:11] I'm like, "Okay, if you wanna stop me, come here. I'll give you that chance. [74:17] Let's get in the octagon." I had this impatience during fight week. [74:23] I wanted to go in there and feel my opponent. I just [74:27] wanted to be inside the cage for them to close [74:31] us in, for the referee to say, "Ready? Ready. Fight." [74:36] And here I wanted to feel, to grapple with him and [74:40] feel his strength, his skills, his energy, [74:44] and for it not to stop. And with any opponent I [74:48] felt from the beginning, and I didn't actually have superhuman strength. [74:53] But from the beginning, when I grabbed them in the first minute and [74:58] then in the sixth or seventh minute, I could feel them fading. [75:04] I was, let's say, like squeezing this energy out of them, [75:09] and I was getting better and better minute by minute. [75:15] - Can you break down the technical details of your top pressure? [75:19] That pressure you put on in wrestling, on the ground, all of it. [75:26] How does it work? Can you explain the philosophy behind it? [75:29] - Over the years, I've learned to use my strength properly. There's [75:33] this sport called aikido. I don't like it much, but [75:37] I like their philosophy, where your strength might work against you. [75:43] I think for a lot of listeners, this is gonna be a brand-new sport. But there [75:47] is this sport called aikido, and the whole philosophy [75:50] behind it is using your opponent's force against them. That's what I learned to do. [75:57] And I have learned to force an opponent into positions [76:02] where they have to escape wasting their energy. Like when we were sparring [76:05] yesterday. That's exactly what I wanted. I wanted you to feel that energy, [76:11] that heavy top pressure. We could have just played around. [76:15] I could have gone easy on you, but I wanted you to feel the real heavy pressure. [76:21] And of course, please don't think it was a sign of disrespect. It's quite the opposite. [76:25] - No, it was respect. [76:26] - I just wanted you to feel that, [76:30] you know, how exhausting it can be. I think you felt it yourself that it [76:34] was a bit different from the kind of grappling you've dealt [76:38] with before. I'm sure of it. [76:40] - The only one who's even close to that is, I mean, you're the absolute number one. [76:44] But the only thing is, when I trained with Roger Gracie in a different sport, you get that [76:48] same feeling with him. Like, the guy is just insanely heavy. [76:50] - Mm-hmm. Pressure. Pressure. Well, Roger, he's the [76:54] greatest, too. He's the greatest in his own sport. What [76:58] makes a person unique is his style, his style and his approach [77:04] to his work. I always approach my craft very professionally, you know, [77:10] respectfully. I believe that if you're gonna be in this game, [77:15] in this sport, you have to completely dedicate yourself to it. [77:20] - But I think you had a deep understanding of how to break an opponent, both [77:23] physically and psychologically, just looking at your style. [77:28] - I've always been right there, always fighting for position. I always-- [77:34] Look, I mean that I just always had this thought in my head. [77:41] My grandfather always told me, "A dog that latches onto that one weak [77:45] spot always wins." [77:48] It's the same with a fighter. When you're fighting on pure instinct, you [77:52] feel your opponent's weakness. You know where they're weak, and you have to [77:56] keep pressing right there. For example, let's say I'm fighting Conor, [78:03] right? His strengths are his striking, his timing and his speed, his boxing. [78:11] Why would I stand and strike with him? What am I supposed to do? I have to [78:15] put pressure on his weak spot. So, [78:18] That's what separates the fighters who reach success, the [78:22] highest level of success, and become the best of the best. [78:27] They know how to find an opponent's weakness, and [78:31] they pressure it relentlessly. So, mm, [78:36] so it all comes down to having the right strategy here. [78:40] - Your fight with Conor, I think, was the biggest [78:43] fight in UFC history. That's for sure. [78:46] Well, actually, in all of sports. Do you think there will ever be another [78:50] fight of that magnitude in the UFC? Is it even possible? [78:55] - Well, let's look at the history here. [79:00] I mean, our sport is still very young, say thirty-five [79:04] years old, starting from the '90s. Put it this way. [79:09] Take, for example, the sport most similar to MMA, [79:14] which is, well, let's say boxing. How old is boxing? A hundred and fifty years? [79:19] Like, when you think boxing, what pops into your head? Thrilla in Manila? [79:24] - Yeah, yeah. Well, I love Mike Tyson a lot too, so. [79:27] - Well, Tyson had big fights, but Mike Tyson never had that, [79:31] Signature rival like Muhammad Ali had in Joe Frazier. [79:35] Yeah, he just didn't have one. [79:38] I mean, who do we have? Evander Holyfield? Look, Holyfield-Tyson is no Muhammad Ali. [79:44] Take Ali and Frazier, Thrilla in Manila, right? [79:48] People called it the greatest rivalry, [79:51] and it still is. In the 20th century, there was nothing [79:55] that could compare. In the 21st century, the only thing you could [79:59] compare to it, purely based on the numbers, is Pacquiao and Mayweather. [80:04] Yes, there was public interest, but there wasn't the energy that there was with Muhammad [80:08] Ali and Joe Frazier. [80:11] - Yeah, if I can just pause for a second, I'll check on Perplexity. [80:15] List the biggest boxing fights of all time. It's Ali and Frazier, like you said. [80:19] - Yeah, yeah. [80:20] - The first, the third. [80:22] - Well, when he lost, and then the third fight, the Thrilla in Manila. [80:25] - And Foreman, I must say Ali versus Foreman. [80:28] - Well, Foreman, that was the year, I think, '74, right? [80:31] - The fight was watched by up to a billion people worldwide. [80:34] - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was one of those things. Politics got mixed into it too. [80:39] Well, it was actually a very big fight. [80:41] - Sugar Ray Leonard, Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard versus Thomas Hearns, [80:46] Hagler versus Hearns. [80:47] - Well, Hagler. Hagler and Duran in Montreal. [80:51] Sugar Ray Leonard and Duran in Montreal when they fought, when [80:55] he admitted after the fight that he lost the mental game and broke down before [80:59] the fight. But then Sugar Ray beat him later. [81:02] - Yeah, he came back and won. [81:03] - Yeah. Well, if you look at it out of everything that stands out, I think, [81:08] You can mention Frazier and Muhammad Ali. And there was also [81:12] Joe Louis against German Max Schmeling. Hitler stood [81:16] behind Schmeling, and Roosevelt stood behind Louis. For those who don't know [81:20] this story, I just watched it recently. [81:24] It was something incomparable. They were so big. They were two of the most, [81:29] the most famous athletes of their time. Roosevelt was promoting Joe Louis, you know? [81:37] At that moment for America, it was like something incredible that a [81:40] white president was promoting a Black world champion. [81:45] And on the other hand, Hitler stood behind Schmeling. [81:48] - It was what? Nineteen thirty-six, nineteen thirty-eight. They had- [81:52] - They fought twice? [81:53] - Twice. [81:54] - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They fought two times. [81:56] - This wasn't just a good boxing match, just a good fight. [82:00] This was politics. Those were nations. [82:03] - This was politics. This was nations. [82:05] - Everything. [82:06] - It all came together. [82:07] - And it's the same thing with Ali too. Muhammad Ali with the Vietnam [82:11] War, all that stuff. [82:12] - Yes, yes. [82:13] - And his, and even religion is tied into it. Everything here came together. [82:17] - They simply went beyond sports. [82:20] It was the exact same thing when I fought Conor. That fight [82:24] went beyond our sport. It impacted every sport because [82:30] athletes of all kinds of different sports, [82:33] everyone who loves to compete, it didn't matter if it was [82:37] football, basketball, soccer, or boxing, everyone was [82:41] following this. And honestly, will there be a fight like that? [82:47] Well, it's hard for me to say, but I think it'll happen. It'll happen [82:51] for sure. There will always be champions. There will always be rivalries. [82:55] But when it'll happen, that's just a matter of time. [82:59] - So it's not entirely about the athletes. It's about everything combined. [83:02] - Yeah. It's everything combined. The way he talked, what he stirred up, the lines [83:06] he crossed, touching on family, religion. And [83:09] then somehow on one side you had Conor, this really [83:13] interesting champion who knew how to hype himself up, and on the other side, you [83:17] had this undefeated somebody from nowhere, from the mountains. [83:22] You know how it is. It all somehow, all of it just kind of happened naturally. [83:28] And it wasn't staged. It was real. We had a real [83:32] rivalry, unlike the way a lot of people now just hype up interest in a fight, [83:36] but people feel that energy. It doesn't go anywhere. [83:40] People can tell what's real and what's fake. And because of that, we went, [83:44] we went beyond our own sport. That's what made this fight so massive. [83:49] - Well, when you look into your heart back then and now, [83:53] did you have anger? Did you have hatred for him? [83:57] - Back then and even now, I'd still keep a cool head. [84:02] Nothing has changed. When you let your emotions take over, [84:06] when they're off the charts and you completely lose [84:10] control, that's a very bad place to be. So [84:15] you'll tire out faster. You'll fall. You'll fall for any kind of bait and so on. I [84:23] just knew that I needed to stay calm, composed, [84:29] to stick to the plan no matter what happened, and not go beyond my emotional limits. [84:37] This is a very, very dangerous moment when you give in to your emotions [84:45] You have to control them. Every single detail, every little thing [84:49] has to be perfectly in place. The second you let it all [84:53] slip, everything becomes a total mess. [84:57] So once the fight was finally done, I just let all my emotions out. [85:02] I had to step right in and prove it, and punish him, and show them [85:06] I'm better, that I'm better than him, and put a final end to this whole [85:10] bitter rivalry. When all of that was over- [85:13] - Your emotions came out? [85:14] - ... that's when my emotions just went over the edge. But until the fight was [85:18] completely finished, starting from training, you know, [85:22] at the press conferences, at the weigh-ins, everywhere, in front of the media, [85:26] everywhere, I kept myself completely under control, and I was very good at it. [85:31] Honestly, looking back it's been almost eight years now. [85:37] Looking back, well, I'm a little surprised. At that point, I was a very [85:41] emotional guy, too. Over these eight years a lot has happened [85:45] in my life, but I'm surprised that I kept it together. And [85:49] well, you know, it wasn't easy for me to keep myself [85:53] within my limits, to keep myself under control like that. [85:57] But here, again, I'll come back to what I said, I was [86:01] very lucky. My father called me at that time I was here two months before the fight. [86:10] His advice helped me out so much because for me it was [86:15] not just that it mattered, it was actually the most important [86:18] thing for me back then just to know my [86:22] father's reaction, how he was taking everything [86:26] that was happening, because there was just so much media [86:30] coverage, so I knew my father was watching. [86:34] It was important for me to know his take. I'd call and [86:38] ask, and my father would even tell me things I hadn't even asked him [86:42] about. He'd bring it up on his own. Because you know the way it [86:46] is with us, between me and my father, in our traditions, in our [86:50] part of the world, in our family for generations, in our village, there's [86:54] just always this distance with your father. Like, when you walk in, there [86:58] are just so many things you can't let yourself do in front of your father. [87:02] You have to be like, sort of like a soldier in front of a [87:06] general, right? If you can even make that comparison. If a soldier [87:10] stands at attention like that, then with us it's even, even stricter. Like even, [87:18] just to give an example here. For instance, [87:22] imagine you're a father sitting there, right? And your two-year-old [87:26] kid walks up to you and wants to play with you. [87:29] You can't even, like, do that baby talk thing with your own kid. [87:33] - You don't have that kind of friendship. [87:35] - You know it's a friendship, but- [87:36] - It's different, yes. [87:37] - There's a certain distance that you must keep around your father. You always [87:41] have to be, like, completely buttoned up. [87:45] You have to stand like a soldier in front of your father. You don't let your emotions [87:49] take over. At that point, just to know [87:53] what my father thought, who was, like, all the way across the ocean, [87:57] who couldn't just fly out and be there to support his son [88:02] and just be there by my side. But for me, since he didn't have a [88:06] visa, I just had to know exactly what he thought. I didn't care what [88:10] anyone else thought. I didn't care about the opinions of, like, [88:14] millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions watching this [88:18] fight. I only ever cared about one person and his take, [88:22] what he thought and what he'd say to me. But I couldn't call him and say, [88:28] "Father, what do you think about this?" [88:30] Well, we never had that. Well, you had to wait. I would just call [88:34] and wait to hear what he'd say. And my father, he knew [88:38] exactly where to draw the line because he was in the exact [88:42] same position with his own father since his own father was still [88:46] around. And then he had a son, too, right? [88:50] And he understood me, how I felt about him, since his [88:53] relationship with his own father was the same way. [88:57] And in that sense, back then, my father really kept me grounded mentally. [89:02] He even told me something once. [89:08] Do you know how diamonds are, like, actually made? Under great pressure. [89:14] He says, "You're under great pressure, and you have a choice. [89:19] You can break down and give up, or you can get through it all [89:24] properly, clearly, with dignity. [89:28] Go in, prepare right, make weight, recover, go in, win, and [89:31] settle it once and for all." And those exact kinds of [89:35] moments, they really, they deeply impacted me. [89:40] - So because of those words, you could cut everything off? Focus. [89:45] - Well- [89:46] - Mentally. [89:47] - Mentally. Like, if a million people showed up right there [89:51] and told me right outside where I was staying, at the hotel, right? [89:55] Like, if a million people gathered right under my window and [89:59] said, "Hey, we've got your back." [90:01] And honestly, just one call from my father, it wouldn't even [90:05] compare, because that one call from my father, that one piece of [90:09] advice, his support, his voice, it charged me up [90:13] way more than absolutely everything else combined. [90:17] - But I must say, José Aldo, who is one of the greatest [90:21] fighters of all time, and still Conor was [90:25] arguably able to psychologically break him. [90:29] But with you, it seems like Conor was not able to mentally [90:33] affect you. Did he manage to get into your head even a little? [90:37] - No, not at all. I had a clear understanding that [90:44] physically and mentally I was just way stronger than him. I didn't doubt myself for [90:51] even 1%. Well, people, [90:56] they can say whatever they want. He's got a massive fan base too. [91:00] Maybe they won't agree with that. [91:03] But the Almighty gave me this unshakable confidence that is just really hard for [91:07] me to even put into words. And I just deeply believe that I was better than [91:15] him and that I was stronger than him, and that in this matchup, well, [91:21] I was supposed to win. I just had this rock solid faith in myself. [91:26] - Up until that moment, is it fair to say that this was your toughest fight? [91:32] - Up until that moment? [91:33] - Correct. [91:34] - One hundred percent. Because fighting's all psychology, you know? [91:40] It's a mental game. Mentally speaking, that was my toughest fight. [91:47] At that point, yeah. But a tougher fight came later. [91:50] - With Gaethje? [91:51] - With Gaethje. [91:52] - There were a lot of factors that made it so tough. [91:55] - Yes. [91:55] - So can you explain? You said somewhere that actually, [92:00] unfortunately, or at least from my perspective, unfortunately, we never [92:04] got to see your absolute limit. Were you, uh- [92:08] - Not in fights, no. You've never seen my limit in fights. [92:12] - But you said that Gaethje was the closest to it [92:17] 'cause of the whole process. Can you explain why it was a tough fight, [92:21] your last one? [92:22] - First and foremost, it was because I had lost my father. It was hard to pull [92:26] myself together. Everything piled up at once. My father was [92:30] gone. And training without my father, [92:35] without the person I was doing all of this for, the person I [92:39] wanted to become champion for, first and foremost, to prove to him, [92:44] uh, to prove to him that I could become the best. [92:50] And then the training camp itself, physically [92:54] I was not in the best shape. I had injury after injury after injury. [93:00] But mentally speaking, I stayed completely sharp. Well, this is when you [93:08] got injuries, your mental game can slip a little, [93:12] or things at home are going bad. All of that impacts a person. [93:16] One, two, three, four. All these things affect you. You become, let's say not, [93:22] not sharp. You lose your fire. Your fire [93:26] leaves you, your focus leaves you, your head is somewhere else. [93:30] Even though you are physically there, mentally you are somewhere [93:34] else. But I always stayed there. I knew it. [93:38] Nobody had any idea that was going to be my last fight. No [93:42] one knew about the talk I had with my mother. [93:45] - But you knew and you were sure? [93:46] - Well, I knew for myself. This is my last fight. I was never going to [93:50] step into the cage again. I knew it, and I had to finish it [93:54] right then and there because [93:57] putting myself through all of that yet again, it would have just been too [94:01] hard on me if I got injured and the fight fell through. [94:06] And putting my mother through all that stress again. I knew that all the [94:10] anxiety I go through for three months leading up to a fight, my mother [94:14] goes through it too. I understood all of that. I wanted to put an end to it because [94:20] we'd already had that talk. We already had an [94:23] agreement. All of that combined, I mean, mentally it just-- I was, [94:28] you know, I was right on the edge. Like, [94:32] it was a fine line and I really was on the edge. [94:37] - And I heard or maybe read somewhere [94:40] that you said you were already starting to miss it while the fight [94:44] was still going on. [94:46] - Yeah, inside the octagon. I knew it would never happen again. [94:50] I stepped in there and I just took it all in. I was fighting and just [94:55] every single moment, every moment, every single move, I felt it deep down. [95:02] And in my head, I already knew this was the final run. [95:07] Everything I'd been doing my entire life, it all came down to this. [95:11] That competitive rush, I'll never feel that anywhere else. [95:15] I knew deep down this was my last fight. [95:18] - What kind of feelings were those? [95:20] - I've never felt anything like that again. Those feelings could only be [95:23] experienced right there on that exact day, that very evening, with [95:27] that opponent inside that cage. I've never had them before that [95:31] night and never had them since. And I don't think I'll ever be [95:35] able to feel that way again. [95:38] I think Buvaisar said that these feelings, standing on the podium, [95:42] becoming an Olympic champion, you only feel them in that moment when [95:46] they announce you. You step onto the podium. That's it. [95:49] They announced you. You won. You leave. That's it. You [95:53] only feel them there. You don't feel them anywhere else. And athletes live for those [95:57] feelings. They train their whole lives for them. [96:01] - Do you ever think about that? That in our lives, if we're lucky, we [96:05] only get maybe one or two moments like that at that absolute peak. [96:10] - Yes. Yes. Yes. Very rarely. It's so rare. What is happiness really? The way I see [96:17] it is when you experience certain feelings for a very short [96:21] time. You can't be constantly happy. Like you achieve [96:25] something and then you're happy for years. It just doesn't work that way. [96:30] The Almighty didn't build us that way. You get there even when you [96:34] become a champion and you fully feel that moment, you [96:38] win. And then you wake up the next morning and that's it. Is that all I worked for? [96:44] There's nothing more like that. You know? Like, can I have seconds? [96:50] You can't have seconds. It's like in our cafeteria. Can I have seconds? [96:56] So well, you become champion, you win, then you wake up the next [97:00] day. That's it. Your daily routine continues. It doesn't end. [97:04] You've already got different things going on, different problems, other [97:08] tasks now, and you're like, "It all went by so fast." Then you wake [97:12] up the next day, pack your bags, head to the airport, fly out, [97:16] land back home, everyone's celebrating. And just like that, the [97:20] next day everyone's gone. That's it. Everyone lives their own life. And well... [97:27] But later on, there are moments, well, you know, [97:32] when you still feel the impact of that success, let's say. [97:37] Like let's say public recognition, for example, people's recognition [97:41] and recognition is legacy. A lot of people get it twisted when [97:45] we start talking about legacy. What even is a legacy? What does legacy mean, right? [97:52] For me personally, it is public recognition. Like [97:56] when people come up to you, like parents come up with their kid and they say, [98:00] "You know, you inspire our son to get into sports. You're a real role model [98:04] for him." And in that exact moment, it's like you just-- [98:10] you start to realize that none of this was in vain. [98:14] But here's the thing. Does everyone approach every champion like that? [98:17] Every successful person? Do people even come up to them at all? [98:22] That's the question. There are people who became champions. [98:26] There are people who rose to the top of their field, [98:30] but they just don't inspire anyone. [98:33] And well, people look at you like, "Yeah, you were a [98:37] champion, you know, but nobody wants to be like you." [98:41] There are so many people like that who achieve success, but they, [98:47] they don't inspire the younger generation because the youth, [98:53] they look at you and they just don't see you as a good person. [98:59] And looking at it that way, sports, it's such a double-edged sword. [99:06] - They lost themselves in it when they became champions. [99:09] Or maybe they never truly were. [99:13] If we can, I want to talk about MMA and football in that same context. [99:18] Let's start with MMA. Who do you think are the greatest fighters of all time? [99:24] You said you have a few favorites. Shogun, George St-Pierre, and Fedor Emelianenko. [99:33] Let's talk about those fighters and maybe others who interest you. They all [99:37] had different distinct styles. So tell me why Shogun. [99:41] You've always said that he was important to you as a fighter, and naturally [99:45] he had legendary moments in Pride in two thousand and five. [99:49] - His soccer kick. [99:50] - Yes, that's right. [99:51] - Well, Shogun Rua, when I was fifteen, [99:55] sixteen years old, he was the Pride champion. At that time, for [99:59] me, it was the best organization in the world. The best fighters in the [100:03] world competed there. Fedor, Cro Cop, Shogun, [100:07] Wanderlei Silva, Anderson Silva. Man, they had [100:11] everybody. Overeem, Dan Henderson, the Nogueira [100:14] brothers, the Emelianenko brothers. They were the best at [100:18] that time for me and honestly for MMA as a whole. And [100:22] right there in second place, in my opinion, shining right behind Fedor was Shogun. [100:29] And the way he fights, no matter how they took him down, he'd get right back [100:33] up. They couldn't do a thing to him. Yeah, his wrestling was lacking, but [100:37] his striking, Thai clinch, punches, kicks, [100:41] knees. When he landed those soccer kicks, well, he really [100:44] appealed to me as a fighter. Very calm, careful, very emotionally restrained and, [100:52] and his fight style. His style was actually at a very high level. [100:56] The way he fought, no other fighter ever did. [101:00] At that time, he really impressed me. Then he [101:04] crossed over to the UFC and became the UFC champion. [101:11] And UFC fights and the Pride fights at that time, [101:15] I didn't have a computer, internet, none of that. [101:19] I remember there was this video rental place. We'd grab [101:23] tapes and watch all these fights with my father. [101:29] Mauricio Shogun Rua to me was like the gold standard of a [101:33] fighter back then. I'd say right alongside Fedor and George St-Pierre. [101:40] - And by the way, when you watched the fights with your father, did you watch them for [101:44] fun or analyze them too? [101:47] - Mostly we analyzed them. My father always loved to analyze fights. [101:52] We'd sit like this and he'd say this, this, chokes, [101:56] striking, wrestling. We were constantly analyzing. [102:00] There was a fight in two thousand and six or two thousand and [102:03] seven. I don't even remember the exact year. [102:07] Approximately around that time when George St-Pierre fought Sean Sherk. [102:12] We even re-watched that fight a couple of times. [102:16] Then George St-Pierre fought B.J. Penn, [102:19] the second fight, I think, after the fourth round when there was a [102:23] stoppage. Then, well, there were many, many fights [102:27] and my father actually admired the fighting [102:31] style, the fighting style of George St-Pierre. [102:35] He really impressed us. And my father, my father always [102:39] emphasized his timing of takedowns after striking how he closed the distance. Um, [102:47] and honestly, my whole, you know, like teenage conscious [102:51] years growing up, like my formative years transitioning [102:54] into an adult, it was all tied to [102:58] tied to Pride in its prime. And after the UFC bought [103:02] Pride and those fighters crossed over, that whole boom [103:06] in 2006, '7, '8 and '9, the rise of the UFC, [103:12] I remember that era so vividly. My father and I re-watched so [103:16] many of those UFC fights. [103:19] - Well, I have to ask about Fedor. What can you say about him? He had some [103:23] legendary fights. He beat Cro Cop, Big Nog, Mark Coleman. [103:28] - Yeah, and Kevin Randleman. And then he had those [103:32] legendary fights with the Japanese fighters who were big [103:36] stars over there. Man, I loved it. Honestly, he inspired [103:40] me just by the fact that he was from Russia and he was a Sambo [103:44] fighter. He was closer to our school of training, Sambo, combat Sambo. [103:50] And there was this moment back in 2004, the [103:56] Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship. Can you imagine? [104:00] 2004, the Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship, and Fedor showed up. He showed up. [104:07] - He came. [104:08] - To compete in the Dagestan Open Combat Sambo Championship while [104:11] being the reigning Pride champion. I was 15 years old at the time. [104:17] I was right there in the venue. My father actually invited him. He [104:21] was sending out invitations to different schools back then. It was [104:25] Stary Oskol where he used to train. Fedor's coaches were sent an invitation. [104:32] He came with his brother, Alexander. They both made it to the finals back then. [104:37] I just remember $5,000, $3,000, $1,000, [104:41] first, second, third place. At heavyweight, they gave a car. [104:45] When the two brothers arrived, they beat everyone to get to the finals. [104:50] They didn't fight each other. One of them took first place. That was [104:53] Fedor. Alexander took second place. I remember back then [104:57] when he was warming up, I was standing next to him while he warmed up. It was this [105:01] building, you know, a venue that fits maybe 1,500 people, [105:05] and over there was this partition, like a wall, and everyone was [105:09] warming up behind that wall. At that time, well, practically very few people even knew [105:13] who Fedor was, but I knew Fedor. I knew who he was, [105:17] that he was the Pride champion. At that time, he beat Nogueira, beat [105:21] Mark Coleman, beat Randleman. This was before his championship fight [105:25] against Cro Cop. I would come over and just sit there watching how [105:28] he warmed up, what he did. I just remember very well, [105:33] I don't know, maybe Fedor will see this podcast. He had a thermos. [105:37] He had a thermos, and he was just drinking tea. And I remember he [105:41] fought Ibragim Magomedov. He was also a legendary fighter of [105:45] ours, a heavyweight who fought in Pride, too. [105:49] He fought against him. It was either his first or second fight, and he was [105:53] warming up incredibly well. I remember how he was warming up [105:57] his nose and his ears. I watched him, and it was unusual for me [106:01] at that time. I never warmed up my nose and ears. I just remember-- [106:05] I just remember how Fedor was really working on his nose, his ears, his [106:09] whole face. And he went, fought, came back. [106:13] This was in Makhachkala 2004. It's the same as a [106:17] UFC champion now coming and fighting at the [106:20] Dagestan Combat Sambo Championship. Can you imagine that? Back then, it [106:24] was the best heavyweight organization in the world. He comes there and [106:28] fights. So he finished a fight, goes back, and he had this big thermos with him. [106:34] His team was sitting separately over there. [106:37] He was drinking tea. He just fought, walked back, [106:41] poured some tea, and drank it. He had something to snack on with it, maybe honey or [106:45] something. I just don't remember. And I was, "Wow, Fedor is right here." [106:49] For me, that was just such a, you know, great source of motivation back [106:53] then. It's really hard to put those emotions into [106:57] words. By the way, maybe you could ask him about that on the podcast. [107:01] - About the thermos? [107:03] - No, no. About the tea. What was in it? Thyme? Mint? What did he put in there? [107:09] - Uh, well, I would love to talk to him on this podcast, [107:13] but I think he rarely does interviews. [107:17] - I think you can reach him. I can help you. [107:22] - Well, if you could put in a good word for me. [107:23] - Yeah, of course. I think it would be interesting for people to hear him. [107:28] - Absolutely. But psychologically, he's kind of like you in a way. [107:35] - You mean calm? [107:37] - Yeah. Yes, that calmness. [107:40] You see the Pride era, those huge fights, those really tough matchups, [107:47] and still he always stayed calm. [107:50] - It's his aura. [107:51] - Yeah? [107:52] - I don't know about others, but for me, that was his aura. The fact [107:56] that he'd come out with such a calm, cool-headed look and knock [108:00] out giants, strong fighters at that time, right? [108:04] You know, we used to joke about his face, that he, [108:11] kind of looks like a kindergarten teacher, you know? And then he goes out there and [108:17] knocks out absolute giants. [108:20] And he was like that. Both before and after the fight, he never showed [108:24] much emotion. But I think we're a little different in that regard. I think Fedor, [108:31] by temperament, is calmer than I am. That's my impression. [108:36] But with that cold-blooded calmness of his, I think he got to a lot of people [108:42] mentally. [108:45] - It's like something's happening inside both of you, like something's boiling [108:50] inside. So when we look at your face- [108:54] - Of course it's boiling. What do you think? You know what? It's [108:58] one thing when it's boiling inside and you show it, but there are [109:02] some who can't hide their feelings. [109:05] But it's a different thing when it's boiling inside and on the surface you stay [109:09] cold, cold-blooded, calm, and you can handle all these different [109:13] emotions that hit you at the same time. There are a lot of them, and they [109:17] all hit differently. When you compete, what makes a [109:21] fighter, an athlete at the highest level so unique is [109:25] that so many different emotions hit you at the same [109:29] time. Fear, nerves, the fact that people are [109:33] watching you, the thought that you might perform badly, that you might [109:39] not show what you've trained for, that you might mess it up, [109:43] that you might, I don't know, fall. So much [109:47] enters your head, and you can put each emotion where it belongs. So, you know, [109:53] if all of that gets inside your head and turns into chaos, you [109:57] won't be able to handle it emotionally, but you stay [110:00] cold-blooded. And you know that if you don't [110:04] handle these emotions that are coming at you, if you [110:08] don't handle this pressure, then it will be difficult for you to [110:12] compete because the main competition is against yourself first. [110:16] You fight yourself, you beat yourself, and only [110:20] then do you actually start competing with your opponent. [110:24] So I think it happens to everyone, not just him or me. [110:28] The big difference here is how much you can control it. [110:32] - Fedor himself famously said, [110:35] "The only person who can defeat me is me. The only person who can beat me is me." [110:40] - He was talking about that fight with yourself, I'm sure. Because if you lose [110:44] to yourself, then you'll lose to your opponent very easily. [110:48] - There's an interesting thing I came across. [110:52] Adam Saitiev said that high-level athletes often make a mistake, [110:57] and what they do wrong is that when they feel fear, [111:02] they tend to ignore it. He believes that you have to confront that fear [111:08] and overcome it. [111:10] - Yes. Psychologists talk about how to work through those [111:14] thoughts when they arise. You know, when fear comes up and you feel it, that's [111:21] absolutely normal. It's what the Almighty put in us. [111:27] People get scared, people get cold, people feel pain, [111:31] people get hungry. These are things that are inside all of [111:35] us. The real question is how you deal with them, [111:39] how you overcome them within yourself. [111:42] 100% you can't ignore it, and you must work through it. You have to [111:46] answer the questions, "Why did this happen? Could I do it this way [111:50] instead?" And this comes only with experience, only with experience. [111:56] And the more you compete, you know, the more you train and the more you face it. [112:02] Some people actually try to avoid that moment. [112:06] But the more you face it, the better and better you'll become each time. [112:14] It's the same with athletes. They get nervous. That's what [112:18] we call the jitters, right? At first, whenever someone competes, [112:22] they get the jitters. But when you keep competing over and over again, you gradually [112:27] learn how to channel those nerves in the right direction. [112:33] Then it gets easier for you. [112:35] And in order to get there, you have to compete. And what is [112:39] competition? You meet this fear face to face. You don't [112:43] avoid it. A lot of guys are staying away from competitions. [112:48] When they're young, they have this tension, this self-consciousness, this [112:52] fear, the jitters. They're nervous. They can't sleep at [112:55] night. You have to go through all of that yourself. [112:59] Nobody can do it for you. A coach can train you. A coach can teach [113:03] you. But all he can say is, "Practice, practice, practice." [113:08] Then there's you, alone with your own feelings. When you lie down, [113:14] when you wake up, when you walk, when you're by yourself, when [113:18] you eat, there are so many moments when a person has to go [113:22] through all of this on his own. And when you have to go through this over and over [113:29] again, some people back away. They don't want [113:33] to face it. And what do you need for that? [113:37] Patience. You have to come and endure it and go [113:41] through all of it, through your skin, through your muscles, through [113:45] your mind. You must let all of this pass through you and overcome [113:49] it. And each time you'll get better at it. [113:54] - A good example of that is the third person you mentioned, George [113:57] St-Pierre, who by the way sends his regards. [114:01] I train with him a lot, and he has a very deep respect for you. But [114:05] he didn't give me much good advice because when I told him I was going to train with you, [114:09] he told me... What did he say? He texted me, "If you [114:13] die, you die." That's what he said. [114:17] - Good advice. He's a wise man. [114:19] - Didn't support me and said, "Say hi." [114:21] - Tell him I say hi, too. [114:23] - As we were talking about, he himself has spoken about this, [114:28] that he was afraid and always felt fear before every single fight. [114:34] That's interesting. One of the greatest fighters- [114:38] - In history, yeah. [114:40] - And even he feels fear. [114:41] - He's not afraid to admit it. Everybody has fear. [114:45] Everybody gets afraid. But I don't know how big that fear was for him. [114:51] I really don't know. We never discussed it. But [114:55] I've watched a lot of his interviews, his fights, and his training camps. [115:02] The way he analyzed his past fights and all that, the way [115:06] I see it, he's a very sensitive person. There are people like that [115:10] too. Some guys take all of this very lightly. Like, [115:13] "Okay, we fight tomorrow. We'll see who my opponent is [115:18] and how he shows up, right?" But there are others who, [115:22] who find it very difficult to handle psychologically. [115:26] But the Almighty gave me this kind of calmness. Sometimes I'd get to the arena, [115:33] and they bring you in four hours before the fight. They have to weigh you, [115:39] they have to do doping control, and they have to tape you [115:43] up. There are so many athletic commission procedures. [115:47] Every state has different rules, [115:50] how they bring you into the arena and all that. Sometimes I'd [115:54] get there four hours early and think, "What am I supposed to do?" [115:58] So I make myself a little bed and say, "Please, [116:02] Keep it quiet." I would lie down. I could sleep there for an [116:06] hour, maybe an hour and a half. That's it. Wake up, warm up, and [116:09] then I could go out and fight. And some guys, they don't [116:13] sleep for two days before the fight. [116:16] Believe me, there are fighters who don't sleep the night before a [116:20] fight, and it's very hard on them. It's not really [116:24] fear. It's hard to describe with just [116:28] one emotion. It's too many emotions that come over a [116:31] person, and they can't fall asleep. It's panic, it's fear, it's worry, it's [116:38] nervousness, it's the jitters. All of that builds up, [116:42] and the person just can't fall asleep. So in that regard, [116:47] the Almighty gave me a little more calmness than others. I had, you know, [116:53] such a cool head and calmness before the fights. [116:57] - Now you're in this new position as a leader, [117:02] and you're looking at all these athletes, these young guys who [117:06] are already at the very top of the world. [117:09] And I think they're all very different from one another [117:13] psychologically, physically, and stylistically. What can you say as a [117:19] coach? I know you're not a coach, but as a leader, how do you figure [117:23] out what each person needs? Like now we were watching Umar prepare. [117:30] That each person needs something different. [117:32] - Yes, everyone is different. Different styles, different [117:36] mentalities, different mindsets, different [117:40] approaches to fight week and to preparation as a whole. [117:44] But you have to adapt to all of it. Here, you can't [117:48] just take one approach. Let's say we take my approach [117:53] and apply it to everyone else, to Usman, Islam, [117:59] and Umar. It doesn't work like that. [118:02] Everyone needs their own approach. I knew them since they were [118:06] nobody, and I know them now when they are the best. So you [118:10] have to treat each one differently. I'm very lucky to have Javier [118:14] Mendez. He's been by my side since 2012. [118:18] And when I became a coach after I finished my career, [118:22] he was there with me as a coach. I switched from being a [118:26] fighter to a coaching role. My father was no longer with us. [118:30] And together with Javier Mendez, we've been guiding them for [118:34] these last six years. And his experience helps me tremendously [118:40] because there is no coach, no MMA coach [118:44] with the kind of results Javier Mendez has. You [118:47] know? So many champions, double champions, [118:51] UFC fighters. So many people have trained under him, [118:56] from Frank Shamrock all the way to Islam Makhachev. [119:00] So many fighters have trained under him, [119:03] which makes things very easy for me because I have Javier [119:07] Mendez by my side, and he can help me with so many things. [119:12] - What do you think is the secret behind Javier's genius? Why is he [119:16] such a great coach for so many different athletes? [119:21] - It's the mental side of things. I'm not gonna say he's one of the [119:25] best at holding pads or anything like that, but [119:29] his understanding of MMA itself, his approach [119:33] to training camp, to the whole preparation process, [119:37] and the amount of attention he pays to sparring [119:41] inside the cage. I'm not talking about those sparring sessions [119:44] with 50 people in the gym and everyone is sparring with each [119:48] other. For example, when I was preparing for a five-round fight, [119:53] he would always bring in two or three high-level opponents, [119:56] constantly rotating in fresh sparring partners. [120:00] - And he would watch and analyze. [120:02] - I don't remember him ever missing a single sparring session since [120:06] 2012. Can you imagine? 14 years have gone by, and right now we're in training camp. [120:13] He's there for every training session, morning and evening. [120:17] He's at every sparring session, watching everyone, coaching them, [120:21] giving advice, guiding them. He's incredibly dedicated to what he [120:25] does. He's either all in or he steps away completely. [120:31] He never shows up and gives only 50%. [120:35] I remember one situation. Abubakar was getting ready to [120:39] fight in WSOF, and I had another student fighting there [120:43] as well. Abubakar went through the entire preparation with us, [120:47] but the other guy didn't. When we got there, I told the coach, "Coach, [120:51] can you work his corner with me too?" He said, "You know, Khabib, [120:55] I haven't seen his preparation. I don't know what he's capable of. He [120:59] didn't train under me. But since you're asking, I'll do it. [121:03] But for the future, remember, [121:05] I don't really like to corner guys I haven't prepared." I [121:09] didn't understand him then, but now I do. This was [121:12] 2016 or maybe 2017. I don't want to be wrong. And now I understand. [121:20] Now when people ask me, I'm like, "I didn't prepare you. [121:24] I don't know how ready you are." [121:27] I'm not ready to go in there and give all my energy to someone who [121:31] didn't go through camp with me. [121:34] Now I understand that. At that time, I told the coach, "Can [121:38] you come out and corner him with me?" He said, "No problem." [121:42] We went out there, Abubakar won his fight, and the [121:46] other guy's fight ended in a draw. But that's not really what I'm getting at. [121:53] I've come to the point where if I haven't trained someone for two, three, [121:57] or four months, I don't like to corner them because they didn't [122:01] go through a full training camp, and I don't know how they'll [122:04] respond in the third, fourth, or fifth round. [122:09] I don't know how he prepared. I don't know how ready he is to go [122:13] into those deep waters. That's why I try not to corner [122:17] just anyone. I learned that from Javier. [122:20] - So you need to know he can go into those deep waters. [122:24] - How deep he can go. I need to know exactly what he's capable of. [122:30] - What can you say about one of the greatest fighters and athletes ever, [122:34] Daniel DC Cormier, who you train with? [122:39] You guys joke around all the time, so it's easy to forget how great he really is. [122:43] What can you say about him as a training partner, as a coach, as a person? [122:48] - When we talk about DC, we have to go back to 2004, 2008. He was a two-time [122:56] Olympian. He represented Team USA at the Olympic Games, [123:00] and that carries a lot of weight in this sport, especially in the 96-kilo division. [123:07] And he is a two-time Olympian. Then he transitioned to [123:11] MMA, won a few fights on the regional scene, went [123:15] to Strikeforce, won fights there. They put him into the Grand [123:18] Prix. He won the Grand Prix, became heavyweight champion, and then went to the UFC. [123:24] When he moved to the UFC, he cut down to 205 pounds [123:28] to make room for Cain Velasquez because they were best [123:32] friends. Cain was the heavyweight champion. [123:35] So he moved to 205, and they both became champions, [123:39] one at light heavyweight and one at heavyweight. [123:43] Later, when Cain lost the title, he moved to heavyweight and won there too. [123:48] He's one of the most unique athletes who has ever lived. [123:52] How many athletes do you know who competed at the World Championships, [123:57] at the Olympic Games in freestyle wrestling, then [124:00] transitioned to MMA and became Strikeforce champion, [124:04] UFC light heavyweight champion, and UFC heavyweight champion? [124:10] And he's also remembered for his rivalry with one of the [124:14] greatest, if not the greatest, Jon Jones. But [124:18] by the time he fought Jon Jones, he was no longer at his peak. [124:23] I think he was already pushing 40. Even though we have this friendly, joking [124:31] relationship because he's such a fun, interesting guy, as an athlete though, [124:38] he's truly one of a kind. [124:41] - As a commentator too, he's very good with words. [124:45] - Educated, well-mannered, strong. [124:49] He has so many great qualities. Daniel Cormier is one of those people [124:58] who I think can truly inspire others. [125:02] - So who usually wins when you guys wrestle? You or DC? [125:08] - Well, he's got a few years on me. But back in my prime, when [125:12] I was competing at lightweight, I weighed around 84, [125:16] 85, maybe 86 kilos. DC was always around 107, 110. Those are completely [125:24] different weight classes. DC was better at wrestling and [125:28] as an Olympian too, all joking aside. [125:32] - So you feel— [125:33] - Back then it was really tough, of course, but now it's different. Now [125:37] I can go after him. But I learned so much from [125:41] Cormier. Honestly, so much. As a person, a [125:45] wrestler, and a fighter. You know, we spent our best years [125:48] together at AKA from 2012 to 2020. [125:54] We've shared so many memories and moments together as well. [125:59] - I just think it's a shame that people don't talk about him as one of the top five, top [126:03] 10. [126:04] - Well, top 10 for sure. One of the top 10 greatest, no question. [126:08] - Absolutely. [126:08] - Yeah, I definitely think so. [126:10] - It's a shame, but you see this in football and in other sports too. One rivalry [126:14] can overshadow an entire legacy. For DC, it's Jon Jones. [126:18] - Well, Jon Jones was the better athlete. [126:22] There's no doubt about that. But DC was right there with [126:26] him. Yes, Jon Jones won, but DC gave him a real fight. [126:32] He was that very person, you know, who actually made Jon Jones train harder. [126:39] People shouldn't forget that. I'm sure Jon Jones prepared for [126:43] that fight like it was the hardest fight of his life. [126:49] - Well, we've talked about different athletes, about Umar, [126:53] but now let's talk about Islam Makhachev, one of your closest [126:57] brothers, who's at the very top of the world. You've known [127:01] each other. You've trained together for more than 20 years. [127:05] In your opinion, what makes him such a special wrestler and fighter? [127:09] Why has he reached such heights? Why is he a great fighter? [127:14] - Well, let's start with the fact that Islam has been doing this for [127:19] His whole life, since childhood. And I've known him since childhood too. [127:23] We went to the same school, lived in the same neighborhood, trained at the [127:27] same gym, and he was my father's student. [127:30] And it's worth mentioning, he was one of my father's favorite students. [127:36] One of the best students. My father saw in him this potential for greatness in how [127:43] hard he trained. That's what I was talking about at the beginning of the podcast. [127:51] When you go into the dark, uncomfortable room and [127:55] stay there for a long time, no matter how hard it gets. [128:00] He knew how to make sacrifices. He was very disciplined. [128:05] Nobody reaches this level by accident. It's [128:09] impossible without exceptional natural gifts. And he has them. He's gifted. Allah [128:17] blessed him with those gifts. And he's deeply devoted to what he does. We basically [128:25] grew up together, right? I'm three years older than Islam. [128:30] And I was always a little bigger, a little older than him. [128:34] So when we were amateurs, I competed in slightly [128:38] heavier weight classes. But we worked together a lot. [128:42] And Islam benefited tremendously from training with me. [128:47] We trained together for many years. And he never had to [128:51] go anywhere to find a sparring partner [128:54] because he always had one in the gym. So I developed by [128:58] training with the older guys in the gym, the stronger guys, the better guys [129:03] when I was young. Then when they left, I was the one in front. [129:06] Islam kept growing, growing, growing. Now I left. [129:10] Islam is the one in front. And now other guys are developing through him. [129:15] This is a kind of chain that exists in a gym, in a [129:18] training system that produces the best fighters in the world. [129:23] And in this chain, Islam was always behind me. If I was [129:27] behind someone, Islam was behind me. Now [129:31] others are following. Islam, Usman, Amru, and [129:34] other guys. You could put them against any of the best fighters in [129:38] the world right now, and they would perform very well. [129:43] So in this chain we've had since 2003, and now it's already 2026, that's [129:51] 23 years. Islam was the one coming up behind me. [129:57] And now there are younger guys coming up behind [130:01] Islam. And it's no secret that Islam will turn 35 in [130:05] October. But what makes me happy is that there are younger [130:08] guys coming up behind him. I left. Islam stepped in. [130:12] One day Islam will leave too, and others will take his place. And this [130:16] cycle, it never ends. It keeps going, and it keeps pulling the [130:20] next generation forward. [130:22] At the beginning, a lot of people are involved. But as you gradually [130:26] climb higher, higher, and higher, the road gets narrower, [130:30] and fewer and fewer people remain. And alongside Islam, [130:34] a lot of guys were developing while training with me. [130:38] But Islam made it all the way because of his work ethic, his discipline, and let's [130:46] call it sacrifice. He gave up a lot to reach this level. This isn't [130:53] easy. You have to make sacrifices. You have to make [130:58] sacrifices. You have to give up parties. You have to sacrifice [131:03] sleep. You have to sacrifice your time. There [131:07] are so many things you have to give up. You have to [131:11] dedicate your entire life to this sport, putting aside all the [131:15] things that can distract you. You train, you sleep, [131:19] you eat, you wake up, and then you do it all over again. [131:23] Only then can you reach the level that Islam reached. That's what makes him unique. [131:29] - Were there any small but interesting differences between you and Islam, [131:36] psychologically speaking? [131:38] - There are many. [131:39] Psychologically, he's very solid too. I've been around him through so [131:43] many training camps and so many fights. He's built very strong mentally. [131:49] Of course, we're different in certain things, but in terms of our fighter's [131:53] attitude toward their work, we have a lot in common. A lot. [131:57] - You also train a lot. [131:59] - Yeah, absolutely. A lot. [132:01] - And I think he... Well, first I have to say, I watched you train yesterday, [132:08] and it made me really happy to see that you still love this so [132:11] deeply. You know, it's hard to love something for such a long time. [132:17] - People finish and move on. They retire and move on. But me, it's been six years [132:23] since I retired, and I still haven't let go of wrestling, of [132:27] competition. I still go to the gym, do cardio, [132:31] lift, wrestle, grapple. I never let it go. It's still with me. [132:37] And yesterday I told you that last week I did 200 minutes of live grappling. [132:44] This week is a little different though, because I'm just focused on [132:48] Umar, traveling, and everything that comes with that. [132:53] So this week it's going to be less. Still, I wrestle. I don't let [132:56] go. I love it. I love this energy. I love that feeling after [133:00] wrestling. You wrestle, let's say 40 minutes. [133:03] Yesterday I still wanted more. Just now I wrestled with you, with Islam, [133:09] maybe 20 minutes, but still it's not enough to get that feeling, [133:14] that 100% feeling. I need around 40 [133:18] minutes of wrestling, something like that. I don't think [133:22] most people listening to us will understand that. [133:27] But I think some people watching, especially grappling and jujitsu fans, [133:33] will understand me. [133:36] - Well, to be honest, sometimes there are cameras around you, and [133:40] for me at least, that's harder. I like it when there are none. [133:45] - I usually train with no cameras. With you was one of the [133:49] rare occasions when I come to the gym and- [133:52] - You allow? [133:53] - When I allow it, yes. [133:54] - Thanks for that. [133:56] - Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is very, very rare for me. Even with [133:59] Embedded, with UFC, with everyone who comes, I always say, "Don't film." [134:04] - Thank you, brother. I don't know why, but cameras get in [134:08] the way for me because this sport, this preparation, it happens [134:12] here, and that whole world where celebrities matter, it gets in the way. [134:18] - Yes, it gets in the way. But 99.9% of our training sessions happen without cameras. [134:26] - Well, thank you, brother. Let me ask you this. A lot of people say [134:29] you're number one, the greatest of all time. Do you [134:33] think Islam has a chance to become the greatest MMA fighter of all time? [134:39] - Well, I've never said that, and I never set out to become number [134:43] one or to become the greatest athlete and so on. I never had that. [134:50] My goal was always to become the best in my sport, [134:54] to become a world champion, to prove to myself [134:57] that I could do it. But it's hard to choose just one person. [135:03] Even now, look, there's always going to be St-Pierre, there's [135:07] always going to be Demetrious Johnson, there's always going to [135:11] be Jon Jones, there's always going to be Fedor. If people [135:14] want to include me in that conversation, if Islam gets into [135:18] that conversation, if there's Cain Velasquez, Cormier, and [135:22] so on, I'd be happy about that. And that's my goal, [135:26] that someone from our team, from the people closest to me, [135:30] gets there too. If Jon Jones is there, why can't Islam be there? [135:35] If Demetrious Johnson is there with 11 title defenses, [135:39] why can't Islam be there? It's a good question. Why not? [135:44] I'd like him to break all those records, to overtake [135:47] Jon Jones, Demetrious Johnson, and St-Pierre, no [135:51] matter how much respect I have for them. Islam has a chance, [135:55] but time is starting to run out a little. [135:58] This worries me because, for example, Jones fought at light [136:02] heavyweight and now at heavyweight. Time is a little kinder [136:06] to those divisions. Even at 38, you can still [136:10] compete at the heavier weights. You don't need the [136:14] same reaction speed and all that. But when you compete in [136:18] lighter weight classes, 155, 170, age really catches up. I think active fighters, [136:26] retired fighters, wrestlers, athletes, [136:31] especially those who competed in these weight classes, [136:35] will understand what I'm talking about. [136:39] When you're 35 and when you're 32 and when you're [136:43] 38, you're a totally different athlete. [136:46] - From where you are now, you can see the entire fight business, and you [136:50] know Dana White very well. I'd say he's one of those [136:53] rare geniuses in sports business, in business, period. [137:01] I don't think the UFC would exist without Dana White. There are [137:04] important people there, of course, but he's really at the center of it all. [137:09] What can you say about him? What qualities, [137:14] what traits have made him such a successful businessman? [137:19] - First of all, I think [137:22] if you look at it, I also kind of... Well, not kind of, I understand [137:26] his position a little. [137:29] I also ran my own league for a couple of years. I know what the [137:32] relationship between a promoter, well, a league owner [137:37] and the fighters is like, not just as a fighter dealing with a league owner. [137:43] I've been on both sides of it. [137:48] He's very good at separating business from personal relationships. For [137:51] him, the two never overlap. He draws a clear line between them. In business, [137:59] he's extremely cold-blooded. He's made decisions, [138:07] some major decisions, regardless of whether people [138:11] like them or not. And those decisions, they were best for the [138:14] league and for the UFC. He always had that mentality, you know, like in those [138:21] mafia movies where family comes first, right? [138:25] Well, for him, the UFC always came first. [138:29] That's the only way he was able to push their brand forward. Of course, a lot [138:33] of people contributed to that success. There were a lot of them. You have to [138:39] give credit to Bruce Buffer, to Joe Rogan, to the commentators who were there. [138:45] There were a lot of things that made the UFC unique, but, [138:49] but the cherry on top was always Dana. Dana did an incredible job [138:53] promoting the UFC, and he still does. No matter what, the UFC is always there. [138:59] You know? No matter how, no matter how unsuccessful a particular event might be, [139:05] the UFC is still the UFC. When they go into a new market [139:09] outside the United States, even if a show doesn't go so well, people [139:13] will still come back for the next event simply because it's the UFC. [139:17] Over the last 30 plus years, they've established themselves as the [139:21] premier MMA league in the world, and they put on the best fights. [139:25] So in that respect, I think a huge part of the credit goes to Dana. The [139:29] fact that the UFC has come this far is a major achievement. [139:33] - Building a league like that is incredibly difficult [139:36] - Yeah. A lot of people have money and a lot of people have tried. Many have come [139:39] in. But building what the UFC has built is extremely hard. And [139:43] what they've achieved now with Paramount, [139:46] that's something unique. It's a unique achievement. In just 30 years, they've [139:50] grown to a level that some entire sports needed 100 or 150 years to reach. [139:56] And you have to give credit where it's due, and that credit goes to one person, Dana White. [140:00] So I think that his genius as a promoter, the way he promotes [140:06] and pushes fights, and pushes his league as a whole, that is just [140:11] remarkable. In my opinion, that's something a lot of people could learn from him. [140:17] - You mentioned Joe Rogan. You know, he's a friend of mine. [140:21] I love listening to his podcast, but I've never actually heard the two of you [140:25] have a conversation together. Do you think that's something that could happen in the future? [140:29] - Yes, of course. [140:30] - I know you have a great deal of respect for him, and he has a great deal of respect for [140:33] you. I can't wait to hear the two of you talk. [140:37] - Same here. If we're talking about the people most responsible for promoting the [140:40] UFC, I'd put Dana first. But second place, without question, [140:44] goes to Joe Rogan. It's honestly hard to imagine the UFC without him. [140:48] It'll be hard when he's no longer part of it. [140:52] And what he's achieved in his own field, what he's achieved in podcasting, [140:57] he's the best. And what he's built, the way he commentates, [141:01] the way he communicates, his knowledge, his charisma, [141:06] the way he carries a conversation, I think a lot of people could learn from him. [141:11] And as for me going on his podcast, I think it's inevitable. God willing, if [141:15] we're given the time and the health, we'll have a lot to talk about. There [141:19] are so many different topics we could discuss together, so a conversation with [141:23] Joe Rogan would be very interesting. I'd definitely like to talk to him. [141:27] - I agree. But it's interesting, right now you and I are speaking Russian. [141:31] Language is a tricky thing. [141:32] - Yeah, exactly. With him you need to come prepared. [141:36] Because if you show up unprepared, he will just eat you alive. [141:40] You have to be ready. It's a mental battle, too. [141:43] - Yeah. And by the way, you know, you've mentioned a few times that [141:49] you'd like to improve your Arabic. Language is such an interesting thing. [141:54] It opens doors to understanding. [141:57] It allows you to understand culture and history on a much deeper level. [142:01] - Absolutely. Without the language, it's very difficult. I'm starting to [142:04] study Arabic now, but I've been reading the Quran since I was a child. I know the [142:10] the alphabet very well, the pronunciation rules. I can read it well. [142:15] But the Quran and Arabic as a spoken language are different. [142:20] I wouldn't say they're drastically different, but they are different. [142:24] If you want to speak it conversationally, you need to study grammar and learn [142:28] it in a different way. [142:31] - I'd also like to ask you about Ali, Ali Abdelaziz. He's such a central figure. He [142:37] represents so many champions. [142:40] What do you respect about him? What do you think makes him a genius? [142:44] Because he's such a unique person. [142:47] - Well, I met Ali in 2014. We've been working together ever since. [142:54] Over the years, a lot of fighters came to him through me, a lot of guys. [143:01] And in all this time, in the 12 years we've known each other, I don't-- [143:11] I can barely remember any fighters leaving him, except maybe a couple. [143:17] But hundreds of fighters have worked with him, hundreds of fighters, and so many [143:21] guys still keep in touch with him, and he has very good relationships with [143:25] them. I'd also like to note that Ali, you know, he has one unique quality. [143:32] People either really love him or really hate [143:36] him. You can't just be neutral about him, you know, like, "Yeah, I know [143:40] Ali. He's all right." [143:42] No one will say about him, "Well, you know, I know him. He's a good guy." [143:47] You'll have strong feelings for him. Either you hate him [143:51] or you really love him. And I am in [143:56] in that category of people who really... How do I put it? Who are very fond of him. [144:02] And I have a good relationship with him. I know his family. I know his [144:06] children. His kids grew up before my eyes. When I first met [144:10] him, he only had two or three children. Now he has more. [144:15] This is the kind of person he is. [144:19] You need to get to know him better to really appreciate him, [144:23] and he will stand by you until the very end. [144:27] And yeah, of course, there are people who have [144:31] who have mixed feelings about him. But that's my point. It's hard [144:35] to feel indifferent about Ali. [144:37] "I know Ali. He's a very good guy." No, it's different with him. [144:42] People will either tell you, "I know Ali and I absolutely love him," or, [144:46] "I know Ali and I can't stand him." [144:48] - So, it's fair to say that most people who- [144:51] - Yes, yes [144:52] - ... who really know him and work with him tend to stay with him for life? [144:56] - Yes. [144:57] - And respect him. That's important. And his judo isn't bad either. [145:02] - It was. [145:02] - He showed me. [145:03] - It was. It was, it was. [145:04] - Oh, right, you were just wrestling yesterday. All [145:08] right. Let's talk about football now. I want to ask you something, [145:12] and I need to be careful here because after yesterday, I realize just how [145:16] much you know about the game. [145:18] I can't even pretend I know what I'm talking about anymore. I need to tread [145:22] carefully. [145:23] - Yes. If we're gonna go there- [145:26] ... don't make any mistakes. I hope you did your research. [145:29] - I'm shaking now. [145:30] - You prepared? [145:30] - Wait. We could talk about [145:34] a lot of interesting teams. You talked about the moment when you fell in love with football. [145:38] That was the Champions League final in 1998. [145:43] It was Real Madrid against Juventus. It was the moment when you, [145:48] you realized that Real Madrid was your team, [145:51] the club you've continued to love and support ever since. [145:54] Tell me about that very first moment when you watched the game with your father. [146:00] What do you remember? You know, this is such an important sport for [146:04] you, for millions, hundreds of millions, billions of people. [146:08] - Billions, yes. [146:09] - What do you remember most about that game, and what did you fall in love with? [146:12] - Well, first of all, my father was a huge football fan. He was a good [146:16] player himself. When we lived in the village, they played almost every [146:20] day. Football has always been very popular where I'm from. The kids, [146:24] the young people, everyone plays. In fact, we still have this [146:28] tradition in the village. As long as I can remember, it was a tradition [146:34] to... for each street to put together its own team [146:38] for a tournament with, eh, group stages, then the quarterfinals, [146:42] semifinals, and the final. So it became a real tradition, and everyone would. [146:48] Everyone there follows football, the kids, the young people. [146:52] And my father played, too. [146:55] Whenever there was a big match on, I'd always sit with him, [146:59] in front of the television and watch. [147:03] The first football memory I have that's really clear and conscious goes back [147:07] to 1996. I couldn't tell you where we were watching [147:11] it. I don't remember, but I remember sitting next to my [147:14] father. It was the European Championship semifinal, Germany and England. [147:19] England lost on penalties at home, and Germany advanced to the final. [147:25] A few days later, we watched the final as well. [147:29] We were at someone's place. We didn't have a TV at the time, or maybe our channel wasn't showing the [147:33] match. I don't remember. We watched it at somebody's place. It [147:37] was Germany against the Czech Republic. Germany won that final. [147:42] I remember Oliver Bierhoff coming off the bench and scoring. That whole period is [147:45] still very vivid in my memory. [147:48] After that, I kept watching football whenever I could. And I remember [147:52] the 1998 Champions League final. I watched it with my father. [147:57] Again, I don't remember where we watched it, but it was the final, 1 to [148:01] 0. Real Madrid won. I can still remember the players who were on the pitch. [148:06] Uh, I was obsessed with football myself. [148:10] I'd spend hours, days outside playing with a ball, sometimes on my [148:14] own, sometimes with a group. There was a period when, actually, [148:21] in the settlement where I lived, in the village, [148:26] I was pretty much the only kid who had a football. [148:29] So the older guys would come over. [148:32] I was maybe nine or ten, and these were boys who were fifteen or sixteen. They'd say, [148:36] "Habib, bring the ball out." [148:38] But I'd give them a condition for bringing the ball out. When you're ten years old, [148:43] nobody is putting you on a team with fifteen-year-olds, you know. The age gap is [148:47] just too big. So I'd say, "If I bring the ball, I'm playing." [148:50] They go, "All right, bring it out," and I'd get to play. And the kids my own age [148:54] didn't make the team. You know how it is when there are a lot of kids around. [148:59] Of course, the older boys would take charge. [149:02] They decide who's playing. Normally, when you're ten and they're fifteen, there was no [149:06] chance you'd get picked. But I was very lucky. I had the ball, so [149:10] I always made the team and got to play with them. That's where it all started, really, you [149:14] know. That love for football started in my childhood. [149:18] My father and I always watched the big matches together. I even remember [149:22] the 1998. I remember being somewhere and literally [149:25] running home, so I wouldn't miss the opening ceremony of the tournament in France. [149:31] I was just running. I ran to my grandfather's house and said, [149:35] "Grandpa, put on channel one." I think it was channel one that was showing the [149:39] opening. Ronaldo was playing in that tournament. [149:44] So I sat there watching, and my grandfather looked at me. I was ten. [149:49] He looked at me and said, "Why are you interested?" [149:52] I said, "I want to watch." I sat and watched. The Brazilians won [149:56] both matches back then, I think. They won against Morocco and lost to the [149:59] Norwegians. [150:00] - The opening match was Brazil against Scotland, two-one, right? [150:03] - Yeah, two to one. So basically, from childhood, I [150:07] already had that love for football, [150:09] and then it just grew. I started watching the Champions League, the Euros, the World [150:13] Cup, and later the domestic leagues, mostly the Premier League. [150:20] So that's where this passion comes from. [150:22] - And what about national teams? Brazil was your team growing up, [150:26] right? That legendary Brazil team. [150:30] - I like Brazil, yes. I also like the Netherlands. Those national teams, [150:34] Brazil and the Netherlands, those were the ones that really appealed to me. [150:39] - And what about clubs? What were the main teams that you supported? [150:43] - It varied. I never had one national team that I'd say was my favorite team. [150:47] - Ah, you didn't? [150:48] - I didn't. Today, I don't feel the same way about the Netherlands. But back [150:52] then, I really liked that Dutch team a lot. Van der Sar, [150:56] Reiziger, van Bronckhorst, Overmars, Davids, Seedorf, van Nistelrooy, Makaay. [151:04] That old lineup. Kluivert. [151:06] Now it's not the same. That era is gone. They just don't have players like that [151:10] anymore. In that sense, there's been a bit of a drop-off for the national team. [151:15] The same with Brazil. Back then, they were incredibly strong, but today it's not [151:18] at that same level anymore. [151:21] But when it comes to the club, the club I follow, that's Real Madrid. That's the one. [151:25] But if we're talking about leagues overall, then because of the competition [151:29] and the way the league is played, I'd say the English Premier League. [151:34] - And in the Premier League, do you follow Man U, City? [151:38] - Not in a way where I have one team, no. I like them. They're both top [151:42] clubs. They're big clubs. I watch them. I follow them. It just [151:45] depends. But it's not like I have one favorite. I do like City, [151:49] Manchester City. In recent years, they've been winning almost everything. They've [151:53] dominated for the last ten years. [151:56] But if we look more closely at Manchester City, there's [152:00] been a bit of a dip over the last two seasons. [152:05] And then you also have the rise of Arsenal in the last couple of seasons, a very [152:09] well-structured team under Arteta. They're really on the rise this season. [152:13] They're leading the league, doing well in the Champions League. They're leading [152:16] domestically as well, so I don't know how far they'll go, [152:20] but they're aiming for the treble this season. [152:23] - I wanna ask because we lived through such a moment in sports history- [152:29] ... that we might never see anything like it again. I'm talking about this, [152:35] this rivalry between Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. [152:38] Of course, since you love Real Madrid, you know, you [152:42] naturally love Cristiano Ronaldo, but what can you say about it? A [152:46] lot of people call him the absolute best, and for many, Messi is number one. [152:51] There's also a very good book about their rivalry. I recommend it. [152:56] It basically tells the story of modern football through their [153:00] rivalry, Messi versus Ronaldo, one rivalry, almost 20-year era. [153:06] Uh, two GOATs in an era that remade the world's game. So it's been [153:10] 20 years. So what can you say? Why do you consider Cristiano [153:14] Ronaldo a great footballer? What do you like about him? Let's start with Ronaldo. [153:21] - Well, he's a natural born athlete. He is... [153:26] God gave him the athleticism, and he managed to maintain it. [153:30] There are many who have lost it. [153:32] There are many players who have talent, physical ability, but they are lazy. [153:38] But he has it all, athleticism, talent, hard work, everything, [153:44] and then there's this. He played in Manchester. He moved. [153:49] He shone in Portugal at Sporting, then moved to Manchester. [153:54] And it's not easy to make your mark at Manchester. From 2003 to [153:57] 2008, he became a star there, and what he achieved in 2008, [154:02] just look at how many individual trophies he won and how much he won with [154:06] his team. You can even look it up. Just search what Cristiano Ronaldo [154:10] achieved in 2008. It's simply unbelievable. [154:15] And then he moved from Manchester. He transferred to an even more [154:19] difficult club, Real Madrid, nine years at Real Madrid. [154:24] Five years at Manchester United, then nine years at Real Madrid. That's [154:27] about 15 years. You're under constant pressure at the two biggest clubs in the [154:33] history of football, [154:35] and at both clubs, at both clubs, he became the best. That's very difficult. [154:40] - Yeah, look here. Three Premier League titles came during his time at Manchester United. [154:45] - Look at 2008 specifically, what he accomplished then. He won the Premier [154:49] League. He won the UEFA Champions League. Individually, he won [154:52] the Golden Boot, top score in the Champions League, the Premier [154:56] League, every major trophy. But the point is that at Manchester, he spent five [155:02] years performing at the highest level under enormous [155:06] pressure. Then he spent nine years at Real Madrid. [155:09] After that, he moved to Juventus, but only for a short time, and this is the part [155:13] people tend to forget. He spent three seasons at Juventus, and he [155:17] also won both the Italian championship and the Super Cup there and scored 100 goals. [155:23] And just the fact that for 20 years, [155:27] let's say 22 or 23 years, he's been at the highest level. [155:32] Look at how many goals he scored, and now he's closing in on 1,000. Will Messi [155:36] ever reach that number is the big question. Next season, he scores 40 [155:40] goals in a season, and he's less than 40 goals away from the [155:44] 1,000-goal mark. That's how unique he is in that regard. But [155:49] just because I'm a Real Madrid fan doesn't mean I downplay what [155:53] Messi has achieved. It's impossible to downplay what Messi's done. [155:57] You have to give him the credit he deserves, but I wouldn't want to put one of them above [156:01] the other. If I'm being honest, both of them, [156:04] watching each other, competing with each other, they stayed there. [156:09] Would Messi be Messi without Ronaldo? Would Ronaldo be Ronaldo without Messi? Those are big [156:13] questions. I'm convinced they watched each other closely. They always [156:17] have, and they still do now. [156:19] For almost 20 years, they've been watching each other, pushing each other, [156:23] and constantly improving. They were already the best, but that drove them even [156:27] further. By competing against one another, they pulled so far ahead of the rest. [156:33] Whether you're talking about achievements, trophies, and all that, and in that [156:37] sense, their rivalry truly elevated the entire sport. More [156:40] people started following football because of them, watching the games. [156:45] So I believe both of them deserve tremendous respect. [156:49] - Yeah. I'd say I completely agree with you that if Messi [156:54] hadn't had Ronaldo and Ronaldo hadn't had Messi- [156:58] - Yeah, would they have gone that far? [156:59] - I don't think so. [157:00] - It's an open question. [157:01] - I don't think so. [157:02] But for me, there is nobody like Messi, his pure love for the game for its own sake. [157:06] - You're a Barca guy? [157:08] Oh, really? Yeah, I can tell from the way you're talking about it, the way you... [157:12] - You got me. [157:13] - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing against it, but... [157:16] - Yes, sure. Well, I mean, Iniesta, Xavi, [157:19] Busquets, Iniesta, Puyol, that was a legendary team. [157:23] - Yes. No, but look, you can compare them like this. Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets, Messi, [157:32] Ronaldinho, Piqué. [157:35] - Ronaldinho, yes. [157:35] - Ronaldinho, he was a bit earlier. That Barcelona team [157:39] from roughly 2008 to 2012, that four-year period, [157:43] only one team in history can compare with them, Real Madrid from 2014 to 2018. [157:50] They won in 2014, in 2016, 2017, and [157:53] 2018. The only interruption was Barcelona's team with Neymar. [157:57] - With Neymar, yes. [157:59] - With Suarez and Messi, that was 2015. Well, let's leave that aside. [158:03] But, you know, with Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Ronaldo, Benzema, [158:08] Marcelo, Carvajal, Casillas, and this team compared to Victor Valdes, [158:16] Pique, Puyol, Dani Alves, Jordi Alba, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, [158:22] Villa, and Messi, for me, those are the two greatest teams. [158:26] Different generations, different squads. For me, they truly represent a [158:33] represent true dream teams at football, at club level. That's the comparison. [158:39] But if we look at the national team level you could pick France in 1998. [158:49] That 1998 France team is very close to a perfect team, and also 2002 Brazil. [158:58] In 2002, they were extremely strong. [159:00] - Yes, you had Ronaldo. [159:01] - You had Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Cafu. [159:07] You had Emerson. You had Kleberson, I think Roque Junior, Lucio, Edmilson. [159:14] And beyond those superstar names, there were also very strong [159:18] players who kind of stayed in the shadow of those stars. [159:22] Stayed in their shadow. So Brazil 2002, France 1998, [159:28] and then there was later Spain from Euro 2008, the 2010 World Cup, and Euro [159:35] 2012. That period, too, Spain. The Spanish national team was close to perfect. [159:41] - I wanted to go back to France. You mentioned Zidane. I really, [159:45] really respect and admire him. [159:48] There was this moment psychologically very interesting, almost [159:52] Shakespearean moment in his career when it ended with, [159:55] ended with that... How do you even call it? [159:58] - A headbutt. A headbutt to the chest. [160:01] - What's interesting is, I don't know, looking at your fight with Conor- [160:06] When emotion builds up, [160:09] for most of it you're focused on the game, but in the end you let that emotion out. [160:14] What do you think about that headbutt? [160:17] - I wouldn't want to judge him, [160:19] wouldn't want to be some kind of judge of what he did, no. [160:24] Well, he did what he did. We don't know what was really going on there. [160:29] But as a player, of course, he was unique. He won the Euros, the World [160:33] Cup, reached finals, won the Champions League, the Spanish and the Italian [160:36] championships, and cups, too. [160:41] It's just unique, and the way he played, I just always remembered him for [160:45] the way sweat was just pouring off him, the way he ran, how he gave [160:48] everything in every single match. He had incredible stamina, [160:52] incredible endurance. I think a lot of people listening to this podcast [160:56] may not have watched Zidane playing live. [160:59] When I say live, I mean watching him play in real time. [161:03] I personally didn't see his games live. I was younger then. [161:07] But I did watch many of his matches later on. I remember the goals he [161:11] scored in World Cup finals in 1998 and 2006, [161:15] especially the headers, and even that penalty, [161:19] the Champions League final, European championships, the way he played, the way he [161:22] handled the ball, the way the ball was, [161:27] the way the ball was glued to his feet, his movements, and then his charisma. [161:32] It's rare to find all of that in one player. You don't see that combination [161:36] often. There are many very good players, but sometimes they're just not, [161:42] not that interesting to watch. You know what I mean? [161:46] I don't want to give specific examples because someone might take it the wrong way, [161:50] so I won't name anyone. But there are players who are phenomenal in terms of [161:57] in terms of their physical attributes: [162:00] fast, explosive, effective. But they don't have charisma, that energy [162:04] that makes people want to watch them, and I don't think that's their fault. [162:10] But with Zidane, everything came together. You always wanted to watch him play. [162:15] You always want to watch Ronaldo play. You always want to watch Beckham play. You want to [162:19] watch Edgar Davids running around the field in those glasses, his hair bouncing [162:23] behind him, right? You still wanted to watch the way Barthez played in goal. [162:29] No matter how many bizarre goals he conceded, you still wanted to watch him [162:32] play. Or Oliver Kahn, the way he stood in goal and directed the whole team, [162:38] the way he would rush out to the ball, the way strikers were afraid of him. [162:43] I mean, so many strikers have admitted that they were [162:46] afraid if they found themselves one-on-one with Oliver Kahn in the penalty area. [162:52] You always wanted to watch Roberto Carlos take a free kick or storm [162:55] down the left flank. [162:57] You always wanted to see Cafu or Michel Salgado make an overlapping run. [163:02] The way Vieira stood there as the defensive midfielder or somebody like [163:06] Maldini or like Rio Ferdinand or somebody like that, [163:10] you wanted to watch Casillas in goal. So, you know, for [163:14] me, and maybe for our generation, those players had something special. [163:18] - Can you try to explain what charisma is? Like you said, there are good players, [163:22] and then there is Zidane. [163:23] - It's very difficult to explain. You either have it or you don't. Personality, right? [163:29] - Yes, but there are so many different forms of it. Zidane, in a way, [163:33] almost moved slowly, in a way. [163:36] - But he'd carry the ball from midfield into attack incredibly quickly. [163:40] So it's very hard to put into words, hard to explain it. [163:44] - And both Ronaldos had that. I mean, the Brazilian Ronaldo too, the way he [163:48] played in those World Cups. It was just phenomenal. [163:52] - '98, 2002. Even in 2006 when he was already [163:56] past his peak. He was so fascinating to watch. Seriously, how many people turned [164:00] on their TVs just to watch Ronaldo? People knew that was it, that in [164:04] 2010 he wouldn't be playing. And even in 2006, he wasn't [164:08] really in his prime. But still, so many [164:12] people turned on the TV just to watch him play. And Zidane, 2006 was really, [164:18] you know, the peak of that whole generation of legends that had been building [164:22] since '98, 2000, 2002, and '04. All the cream of [164:26] the crop came in. Most of them weren't at their physical peak anymore, [164:30] but the names were still there. Honestly, I think that [164:35] for football fans, I'd recommend just looking up the teams and the [164:39] lineups from the 2006 World Cup. [164:43] Look at the rosters. Every single team had stars you wanted to watch. [164:48] - Speaking of teams, what style of football do you like? You prefer short [164:52] passing, long balls, individual plays, [164:55] you know, like Maradona carrying the ball or, of course, Cristiano [164:59] Ronaldo taking the ball and scoring himself? [165:02] - Mostly those who take the initiative. [165:05] - You like that? [165:05] - Yeah, definitely. I like players who are willing to take the initiative. [165:09] I was recently talking to Zlatan about this, and he said, "It drives me [165:13] crazy when I have players on my team who, when you pass them the ball, [165:18] they immediately get rid of it. They don't want to take the initiative." [165:22] When you have three or more players on the team, if there are three people on [165:26] the team who are not afraid to make mistakes, that's usually enough. They [165:30] take the initiative, take control of the game, drive the team forward, make [165:34] mistakes, but they keep trying. And then there are others who hide, he [165:38] says. They get the ball and immediately pass it to someone else. Just don't give it to me. [165:42] Not me. Not me. They just want to get rid of the ball. It's like... [165:48] You know, it's like something one of Zidane's coaches once said. If you [165:52] don't know what to do with the ball, give it to Zidane. He'll figure it out, so... [165:59] You see, that's the thing. It's a quality [166:03] not every player has. You're taking the ball. [166:09] You're taking responsibility. You're taking the initiative. [166:13] You are not afraid to fail. You're not afraid to make a mistake. [166:16] Cristiano had a moment like that. He missed a penalty, and later in [166:20] the same match, he stepped up to take another one. [166:24] Think about that. You take the first penalty. You miss it. Then another [166:28] penalty comes along, and you still step up to take it. Because if you miss [166:31] two penalties in the same game, you're under a lot of pressure, right? But that's the [166:35] point. You're not afraid to fail. As a leader, you take the initiative, and you're [166:39] you're willing to take risks. That's honestly the beauty of it, the beauty of [166:44] sports in general. The bigger the risk, the bigger the potential for greatness. [166:48] If there's no risk, then there's no... [166:53] You can't make, can't put yourself in the category of athletes [166:56] people will talk about as some of the best ever. [167:00] - Especially when it's a high-level game like the World Cup and... [167:05] - Yes. The more risk, the sweeter the victory. There must be risk. [167:09] - That's why they often speak of Maradona as a great player. There are [167:13] many great players. He's great- [167:15] - One of them, yeah [167:16] - ...for many reasons. But one reason is that he kinda, kinda carried the [167:20] team on his shoulders. [167:22] - He took the initiative and carried them. That's, [167:25] that's when he led Napoli, you know? When he led Napoli to the league title. Who knew [167:29] Napoli then? Maradona came from Barcelona to Napoli and made them champions, [167:36] and the whole stadium was named after him. Many guys played in Napoli, but there [167:40] was never anyone like Maradona. And recently, I [167:44] saw somewhere, or I think someone pointed out, [167:50] the pressure on the guys who are transferring to Napoli. [167:54] Whoever you are, you will always be in Maradona's shadow, [167:57] and you stay in the shadow because fans will never give you the [168:01] credit you might deserve because they will always compare you to [168:05] him. Are you Maradona or not? And if you're not Maradona, [168:09] you will never get full recognition. [168:11] - I want to say that one of the things that makes Messi great, I think, is that he really [168:15] had to live in such a shadow of Maradona, and especially with the World Cup. [168:20] - Yes. [168:21] - It's not easy. [168:22] - And he came out of it. [168:23] - Hard to emerge from that shadow. [168:24] - Yes. And he won the World Cup, yeah. In that sense, you have to give Messi his due. [168:33] I'm addressing the Real Madrid fans now. Ours, yours, both sides. [168:38] - You're explaining it to them. [168:39] - Yeah, yeah. [168:39] - I got you. [168:40] - Most of them, I think even if they don't like Barcelona, [168:45] they still recognize Messi's greatness. [168:48] - I know that you met Zlatan. You talked to him. I think he's one of the most, [168:54] most self-confident people [168:56] in football, in the world in general. What do you think about this confidence? Of [169:00] course, he's joking around a little bit, but I think he really believes in himself. [169:05] - Well, yeah, he does. He does. [169:07] I've known Zlatan for years now. We get along well, and I know [169:11] his kids, and I like his personality. I like his confidence. [169:15] I mean, he's a unique player. [169:18] There are not many Zlatans in football. You know, wherever he played, he always scored. [169:23] He's a goal scorer. He is that kind of center forward, [169:26] and he always carried the team. He was a leader wherever he transferred. [169:30] It doesn't matter. Milan, Inter, Juventus, when he moved to LA [169:34] Galaxy or Paris Saint-Germain. [169:38] He was a leader everywhere he went, with the national team, with his clubs. [169:42] He was always the guy driving the team forward, taking the initiative. [169:46] And honestly, he cemented his place as one of the greatest [169:50] players to ever play the game. And yeah, maybe he was... [169:57] When it comes to trophies, not individual achievements, but team honors, [170:01] Sweden wasn't such a [170:03] Wasn't exactly the greatest team, and some of the clubs he played for [170:09] didn't always win the biggest trophies. But as an athlete, [170:16] as an individual, as a person, he is a very strong athlete. [170:23] - We talked a lot about Dagestan, talked a lot about America. You're in Dubai [170:27] a lot these days. Do you like it there? Also, you have spoken [170:33] very highly about Sheikh Hamdan. [170:36] What do you like about Dubai? What do you like about this region? And what do you [170:40] respect about Sheikh Hamdan? [170:43] - Our team's been in Dubai for seven to eight years now. We train at the [170:47] Nad Al Sheba Sports Complex. The NAS Sports Complex, [170:51] this is under Sheikh Hamdan's office. It's like his home, his place. We train there, [170:58] we eat there, we live there. [171:00] Sheikh Hamdan helps us with everything and takes care of us. The way he treats us, [171:09] what he does for us, his support is just limitless. He supports us in everything, [171:17] and it's not just one, two, or three years. It's already been seven or eight years. [171:23] And I am very, very grateful to him. The way he welcomed us, [171:29] took us in, and helped us, continues to help, it's hard to put it into words [171:36] how grateful we are. Our entire team is very grateful to him, and he knows it. So in [171:43] general, Dubai has become... Actually, the [171:48] Emirates, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi have become like a [171:52] second home for us. And so it happened that over the [171:57] last six or seven years, the UFC has been holding events in [172:01] Abu Dhabi, and the PFL has been putting on events in [172:05] Dubai. These are two of the biggest MMA organizations in the world, [172:09] and a lot of our guys compete there. We arrive before the fight, we [172:13] stay, we do training camps, they compete. [172:16] We are incredibly fortunate that we have support at the government level. [172:22] In Abu Dhabi, we've been supported by Sheikh Mohammed, Sheikh [172:26] Tahnoon, and Sheikh Mansour. And in Dubai, Sheikh Hamdan has really taken us [172:33] in like his own team, like younger brothers. [172:37] In that respect, we've been incredibly fortunate, and our entire team is [172:41] deeply grateful for their support. [172:44] - And they've created a country that has become one of the world's central [172:48] hubs. People from everywhere travel there. [172:52] - It's unique, right? The local population is only around one and a half [172:55] million people, actually even less than that. [173:00] But, you know, there's such an influx of tourists, [173:04] people, business people, major events, [173:07] and everything happening in terms of business and sports is just [173:11] incredible. What's happening in Dubai and Abu Dhabi is, it's like nothing else. [173:17] The only places you could really compare it to are major global cities like New [173:21] York, London, Paris, Tokyo. But those are [173:25] huge metropolitan areas with populations of well over [173:29] twenty million people, and they have centuries of history behind them. [173:34] And here, they've built cities, an entire country really, in just a few decades [173:41] and turned it into a kind of magnet. It's like a magnet that attracts everyone. [173:49] The country's location, its logistics, the sheer number of people [173:53] coming in, not just visiting, but wanting to move there, live [173:57] there, and start businesses, it's remarkable. [174:01] It's a unique place in today's world. With [174:04] everything that's happening around the globe right now, this country really [174:08] stands out because of the opportunities it offers. It's unique in that sense. [174:14] - Now I'd like to ask you this. For you, [174:19] your Muslim faith and God, it's obviously central to your life and to who you are. [174:27] Can you explain what role God plays in your life? [174:32] - Well, first of all, I was born, raised, and brought up [174:37] in a Muslim family, in a Muslim community. [174:44] Since childhood, religion's always been the most important thing for me. And [174:48] when I say religion, the first thing I mean is Salah, [174:51] Namaz. And my entire life in general, my daily [174:55] routine, the way I lived, trained, studied, and everything [174:59] else has always been built around Salah. [175:03] The rest was scheduled around it. Even today, when I was [175:07] choosing time for this podcast, I knew we'd be talking for a couple of [175:10] hours, so I deliberately picked a time right after the midday prayer. [175:16] I pray, come here, finish up here with you, and then go pray again. [175:21] That's how my life's been, and still is, and that's how it will continue to [175:25] be, I hope. I've always tried to [175:29] organize my life around worship, because first and foremost, my [175:33] purpose in this life is to worship the one God. [175:37] Everything that happens after that is, it's secondary, so to speak. [175:45] And faith in God and learning more and just striving to [175:49] get closer to God, that continues throughout our entire lives. [175:55] So in that regard, I'm very grateful to the Almighty for opening this door [176:05] of understanding and reflection for me, for helping me [176:09] realize that we are all servants of God and that our purpose [176:15] in life is to serve one God. [176:18] - And as you were explaining that helped you in your [176:21] career in the sense that, you know, [176:25] psychologically, by keeping you from letting success go to your head? [176:28] - That helped me with everything. I've always placed my only hope in the Almighty. [176:35] Whatever situation I might face, I've always believed that only the [176:39] Almighty can truly make it easier for me. [176:43] And when it comes to not letting success go to your head, [176:47] not becoming proud, not becoming full of yourself, [176:51] religion and my faith in Allah have helped me with that too. [176:55] I truly believe that only faith can help a person get through life's hardest trials. [177:02] And sometimes I think about people who suffer the loss of a loved one, [177:10] someone very close to them. For example, when I lost my [177:14] father, I remember thinking to myself, "If I didn't believe in the [177:18] Almighty, if I didn't have faith in God [177:22] and understand that it was predestined, that we all come into [177:26] this world and then leave it, that no one stays here forever, [177:30] that no one belongs to anyone, and we all belong to the Almighty, [177:34] and that we will all return to Him, I don't know how I would have coped with [177:38] it." I'm a very emotional person. I think it would have [177:42] been extremely difficult for me to go through all of that without faith. [177:47] In that sense, I feel fortunate to have this understanding. [177:51] - So faith really helped you when you lost your father? [177:57] - This was the only thing that helped. Nothing else worked. [178:00] I know a couple of people who have lost someone very close to them, [178:07] and they struggle to accept it. They would ask, "Why? Why? Why?" So many questions. [178:16] I told them, to answer that question, you need to go deeper into [178:19] religion and try to understand [178:23] why were you even born in the first place, and why do these thoughts even come [178:27] into your head? And what if you didn't have any thoughts at all? What if you [178:30] couldn't think, couldn't understand anything? These [178:34] thoughts, this awareness, your mind, your abilities, none of [178:38] that was there before. Then it appeared. Why? [178:42] That's the question. None of us existed. Then we were born. We were little. [178:46] We weren't aware of anything. We didn't remember anything. Then little by little, we [178:50] grew up and became adults. [178:53] We became successful, became somebody. We became who we are. [178:58] So why did all of this come specifically to you? There are so many [179:01] questions like that. And so [179:05] these questions are, let's say, a kind of guide through life. And for me [179:12] that's what religion is. It guides me and helps me. [179:17] - You often say, "Alhamdulillah, [179:21] all praise to God." That's very powerful, that sense of gratitude. Can you tell us, [179:27] can you explain why you say it so often? [179:31] - You know the saying, the tongue speaks what the heart is full of. [179:36] The way you speak shows what's in your heart. If you have [179:40] something dark in your heart, your words will show it, no doubt. [179:43] We all have some dark parts in our hearts. [179:48] Every single person has them. Sometimes they come out in [179:53] what we say, how we express ourselves, what we share with people, and so on. [180:01] Everyone has that. But if your heart is mostly good and pure, [180:05] then that will also be reflected in your speech. And [180:12] And I just like praising the Almighty and giving all the [180:16] credit for my success back to Him because [180:22] everything we have is given to us by the Almighty. Throughout the [180:25] history, there have been many people who made big mistakes after [180:29] becoming successful, powerful, and wealthy, and they [180:33] started saying, "No, no, this happened to me because I'm so great, because I'm so, [180:41] I'm so intelligent, because I had vision, because I've [180:45] got the brains, because I'm extremely capable. That's why [180:49] all of this came my way." But at the same time, there were many [180:53] others who worked just as hard, who weren't any less intelligent, [181:00] and the Almighty just didn't give it to them. He chose you and gave it to you, [181:06] and you just have to give the credit back to Him. You shouldn't take the credit for [181:10] yourself. That's what I believe. [181:14] And it's something I've come to through studying my religion. [181:20] I understand that everything the Almighty has given to me is not because [181:24] of who I am. It's simply something God has given me as a test [181:29] to test me and, in the end, see which of my deeds outweigh the [181:32] others, the good or the bad. [181:38] Because as a believer, I believe that there will be judgment [181:43] and everything we have, everything we do, every action we take, [181:48] we will be held accountable for it. There will be a day [181:52] of judgment, there will be scales, and everything will be weighed. [181:58] - What advice would you give young people about life and their careers? [182:06] Millions of people are watching you and deeply respect you. [182:11] What would you say about how to live your life? [182:15] And how do you find your path and stay on it? [182:19] - Well, I wouldn't want to speak just from my own perspective. I'd rather bring people [182:27] back to the scripture, to what the Almighty said, "Read." [182:31] That's the first word revealed in the Holy Quran. The first command is read or ikra. [182:39] So to everyone listening to or watching this podcast, I would want [182:43] to bring them back to that. Read, meaning what? Educate yourself, observe, [182:50] learn, improve, but don't stay in one place. And anything a person is truly [182:58] looking for, if they genuinely want to find it, not just [183:02] find an answer, but find the truth, they can reach [183:06] it, but they can never reach it without reading. They [183:10] need to read. When a person reads, what they read enters them [183:15] into their body, their heart, their mind, and it triggers a search. [183:21] A search for knowledge begins inside them, but if you don't read, you won't find [183:24] anything. Just listening to someone is one thing, but reading is something [183:28] different. So my advice would be read [183:33] and find within yourself the strength to come closer to [183:37] one God and seek to understand why we were sent here in the first place. [183:45] Today, you and me, we're almost the same age. So let's [183:51] just think about this. For example, my grandfather on my mother's side [183:57] passed away in two thousand and three. Now it's twenty twenty-six. [184:06] He's been lying in the grave for twenty-three years. [184:11] And then there was his grandfather, [184:13] or let's say his great-grandfather who also died and has been in the [184:17] grave for over a hundred years, roughly speaking. [184:21] But what about people who died two thousand years ago? They've been in the grave [184:25] for two thousand years. What's next? [184:30] It's a good question, isn't it? They've just been in the grave all this time, and [184:34] that's it. [184:36] So what was the purpose of their life? A person has been in the grave for two [184:40] thousand years, but maybe lived for seventy years. [184:44] Roughly speaking, let's say one hundred. They lived for one hundred years [184:48] and have been in the grave for two thousand. [184:51] So what matters more, those one hundred years [184:55] or these two thousand years? And what happens after those two thousand [184:59] years end? People believe different things, whether there is a day [185:03] of judgment or not. That's where the difference lies between a believer and [185:06] a non-believer. After everyone is resurrected, there will be the day of [185:10] judgment. There will be judgment, and after that, people will [185:14] enter eternity. Eternity compared to eternity, [185:18] what are two thousand years? They're nothing. And we live for, let's say, [185:22] seventy years. And many people choose those seventy years over eternal life. [185:31] And if a person understands that these seventy years they have [185:35] here, roughly speaking, seventy or eighty years [185:40] are meant to be used to prepare for what comes after, so that when the [185:44] day of judgment arrives, and after that judgment they can live forever, not in hell, [185:48] but in heaven. If that becomes their ultimate goal, then they [185:52] will strive to do good deeds because they will fear the day of judgment. [185:58] And that's really what life is about, preparing yourself for the day of judgment. [186:03] - That's true. To truly understand life and its deeper meaning, you have to think [186:07] about eternity. Only then can you really understand your role. [186:13] - Actually, it can keep a person away from evil. From evil and, [186:20] and it can stop them from treating other people badly. [186:24] It can hold a person back. But if you don't have that understanding, if a [186:28] person lives completely convinced that there's nothing after death, [186:32] what's there to stop him from doing evil? Just like that. What do [186:36] you think? And on top of that, an even more dangerous combination. [186:42] You become powerful, wealthy, and you become famous. What now? [186:49] Suddenly every door is open to you. Just imagine a person like that. [186:53] And on top of all that, he doesn't believe in the day of judgment. [186:58] He doesn't believe he'll be held accountable for his actions. That's, you [187:01] know, it's like a nuclear bomb. He can end up causing harm to people everywhere. [187:08] But if you know that for everything you have here, you'll [187:12] eventually have to answer, that there will be a day of judgment [187:16] and that you'll be called to account, and if you fail that test, you'll [187:20] burn in hell forever. That'll make you rein yourself in a little. [187:25] You'll have to take that into consideration. You'll have to tighten things [187:29] up a little. You'll begin to understand [187:34] that you're not nearly as important as the image you've created of [187:38] yourself in your own mind. You start becoming more, as Americans say, down to earth. [187:45] You become more grounded. You're not flying, you're walking on the ground. [187:50] - You once put it beautifully. [187:54] You can allow money and fame to stay in your hand, but not in your heart. [188:01] You've still got many years ahead of you, but you're already an example of [188:05] someone who's become famous, made money, and remained the same person. [188:11] - If money stays in your hands and not in your heart [188:14] That's a good thing. But the moment it gets into a person's heart, it corrupts them. [188:19] Once it's there, it's very difficult to pull it out of your heart. If you have [188:23] wealth in your hands and use it properly for good [188:26] causes, for the right purposes, for people in need, for [188:30] your family, relatives, friends, people from your hometown, [188:36] that's a good thing. But as soon as that wealth gets into your heart, it becomes [188:40] very difficult to share it with others. And this [188:44] is a very dangerous place for a person to end up. [188:50] And I'm sorry, but as a believer, I believe that most people in [188:54] hell will be wealthy. [188:59] - One of the reasons millions of people find you so interesting to watch is that you're [189:03] constantly growing. First, you were a great fighter. Now you're becoming a [189:11] leader. Your wisdom just keeps increasing. [189:16] You're evolving as a person, but still the core values remain. It's good to [189:20] see, inspiring for people. [189:22] Money and fame haven't changed you. You're just growing as a human [189:26] being, as you always have. [189:28] - I hope it's in the right direction. It's just, the thing is people only see the [189:32] good. They don't see the bad. [189:35] And we all have the good side and the bad side. Everyone, sadly. [189:41] And especially when it comes to celebrities, [189:44] we only show the best side of ourselves. [189:48] Even when you post photos, you only post the good ones, [189:52] the pictures where you look your best. So I hope that [189:58] the way people see me, as you pointed out, is the way I really am, [190:07] because it's difficult to judge yourself objectively. You're always [190:11] biased when it comes to yourself. That's how it is. We tend to think highly [190:15] of ourselves, right? You can't really see yourself objectively. [190:20] We hide our flaws and put our best qualities on display. [190:25] Sometimes people even start believing in a fake version of themselves. [190:33] For me, I try to stay on the honest path throughout my [190:36] life to remain true to who I really am and to show [190:43] my true self to people. Maybe not everyone agrees with my [190:47] behavior, my opinions, my worldview, or my attitudes toward, [190:53] towards sports, religion, and other things. Not everyone shares my views. [190:59] Not everyone is a fan of mine. There are people who, [191:04] let's say, see me very differently. So I'm just... [191:12] I've tried, I continue to try to be who I am. That's all. [191:18] And I hope that my ending will be a good one, too. [191:24] Well, you know, at least that's my hope. [191:28] - You've stayed the same, but you've also grown. I mean, today you even [191:32] managed to say something nice about Barça. So see, that's progress. Yeah. Well done. [191:39] - Come on, without Barcelona, there wouldn't be Real Madrid. If the Spanish league [191:43] didn't have either Real Madrid or Barcelona, it just wouldn't be the same. [191:47] They've been competing against each other for how many years? One hundred twenty. [191:51] It's hard to imagine Barcelona and Real Madrid without each other, and so is the Spanish [191:55] league without that rivalry. [191:57] It's impossible to imagine. So yeah, we have to give you some credit, but Real [192:01] Madrid is the royal club. Come on. It's the best. You know? [192:06] - And thanks to both of them, we've been able to enjoy truly incredible football for so [192:10] many years. [192:11] - For so many years, yeah. [192:12] - Um, Khabib, brother, I don't even have the words to explain [192:18] how honored I am that you're here talking with me today and showing me so much [192:22] warmth. [192:24] There's no way to fully express what you mean to millions of your fans around the world, [192:28] including me. Thank you so much for everything. Thank you for this conversation. [192:32] - Thank you. Thank you very much, Lex. [192:35] - Thank you for listening to this conversation with Khabib Nurmagomedov. And again, [192:40] thank you for everything. I love you all. Goodbye, my friends. See you next time.