Vaynerchuk Bets on Physical Experience as AI Floods Digital Media

AI充斥数字媒体之际，Vaynerchuk押注实体体验 Gary Vaynerchuk认为，零成本的AI分发将使数字渠道趋于饱和，从而促使消费者需求和投资价值流向切实可见的现实世界资产。 在接受TBPN采访时，Gary Vaynerchuk阐述了他关于“模拟复兴”的宏观论点，认为AI的飞速发展使得零售、现场活动和收藏品等可触及的实体体验变得比以往任何时候都更有价值。他敦促创业者采取杠铃策略——一方面利用AI精简数字分发，另一方面将品牌深植于现实世界的基础设施中。此外，Vaynerchuk批评了传统营销，称企业因忽视转化漏斗中部的原生社交内容而浪费了93%的预算，并强调直播带货是一项巨大的全球趋势。他还分享了来自其人脉网络的人生经验，讨论了与MasterClass合作的另类商业教育模式，并提倡年轻创作者拥抱全新视角。 Gary Vaynerchuk 指出，当前数字内容的分发成本近乎为零，企业与个人品牌必须采取激进的多平台内容策略，其回报潜力已达到历史最高点。 (0:37) 随着生成式 AI 普及了高质量图文与视频生产，创业者的核心能力正从基础的素材制作，全面转向引导智能体（Agent）工作流与创意策略决策。 (4:42) 极端 AI 技术的爆发正引发向“极端实体”回流的文化与投资反弹；聪明的资本开始奉行杠铃策略，一边利用高扩展性 AI 降本增效，一边重金布局线下零售、另类体育和实体体验商业等不可被颠覆的资产。 (7:43) 企业营销部门因忽视以原生社交内容为主的中层漏斗，浪费了高达 93% 的广告预算；品牌应将至少 20% 的营销资金专用于测试原生内容，再据此放大投放。 (23:35) 中国直播电商今年预计将产生 1 万亿美元的商品交易总额（GMV），随着 TikTok Shop 等平台在西方加速扩张，依托真实消费需求的直播社交购物将在未来十年迎来巨大爆发。 (25:45)

Gary Vaynerchuk argues that rapid advancements in generative AI are triggering a massive counter-reaction toward "extreme analog" experiences, making real-world spaces, live events, and physical assets the ultimate beneficiaries of modern capital allocation. Concurrently, he contends that winning entrepreneurs will adopt a barbell strategy—leveraging operational AI and zero-cost digital distribution on one side, while anchoring proprietary value in tangible infrastructure and organic mid-funnel media on the other. The Analog Resurgence and Backlash Against AI (7:43) Vaynerchuk outlines a macro thesis where synthetic digital saturation drives consumers toward real-world touchpoints, likening the shift to modern technology resurrecting 1950s-style human experiences. Rather than competing against thousands of synthetic online brands, high-profile investors like Ari Emanuel and Josh Kushner—via his Eternal Fund targeting evergreen assets such as the San Francisco Giants—are prioritizing physical venues and sports. Tangible market indicators support this trend: vinyl record sales surpassed $1 billion in a calendar year, rising approximately 10% in 2025 to rival nearly 10% of streaming revenues, while Gen Alpha shows growing adoption of analog flip phones and massive attendance at physical gatherings like San Diego Comic-Con and Fanatics Fest. This appetite for physical authenticity coincides with consumer unease over technological displacement. Vaynerchuk observes that major brands, including McDonald's, have faced severe consumer backlash when running fully AI-generated ad campaigns. He forecasts that within five years, synthetic media will become so convincing that audiences will reflexively distrust digital video, creating an unprecedented economic premium for verified, in-person experiences. The Barbell Model: Operational AI and Physical Assets (16:13) Rather than viewing technology and the physical world as mutually exclusive, Vaynerchuk advocates for an AI-analog barbell strategy. He illustrates this by proposing a chain of 40 drive-in movie theaters scaled using autonomous AI tools for immediate customer service and operations; over five to seven years, this physical footprint transforms into a proprietary distribution channel to screen AI-generated original films and develop children's intellectual property. Under this model, entrepreneurial scrappiness does not disappear with the democratization of media tools like GPT Images 2; instead, human effort shifts from basic asset production to orchestrating agentic AI workflows and overarching creative strategy. This logic mirrors early investments by Gary and AJ Vaynerchuk in non-disruptible alternative sports properties—including Major League Pickleball, Unrivaled 3x3 basketball, SailGP, SlamBall, and padel—which secure physical, experiential IP that digital disruption cannot replace. Mid-Funnel Dominance and the Live Commerce Opportunity (23:35) Examining enterprise marketing, Vaynerchuk asserts that Fortune 5000 corporate departments waste roughly 93 cents of every dollar by over-indexing on speculative upper-funnel branding and outdated 2016 performance marketing frameworks. He argues that modern media consumption is dictated by the mid-funnel and the "TikTokification" of social platforms, urging brands to direct at least 20% of their total marketing budgets into producing organic social content to test creative concepts prior to deploying paid ad spend. Simultaneously, Vaynerchuk claims that Western consumer brands are underestimating the commercial scale of live shopping. Pointing to China's projected $1 trillion in live commerce gross merchandise value as a leading indicator, he argues that formats like TikTok Shop are growing organically on product merit rather than artificial subsidies. In his view, bringing high-production, scheduled live programming to everyday consumer niches represents one of the largest untapped opportunities in modern digital commerce. Creative Barbells and Questioning the MBA's ROI (20:01) Applying his barbell framework to intellectual output, Vaynerchuk argues that an author's most powerful work typically occurs either at the beginning or the conclusion of a career. First books leverage "dangerous, fresh eyes" that identify structural opportunities unencumbered by legacy rules, whereas late-career works synthesize decades of hard-won wisdom. He credits author Ryan Holiday with introducing the vocabulary of Stoicism to help articulate his own balance of intense competitive drive with foundational life principles. This emphasis on real-world application prompted Vaynerchuk to partner with MasterClass to teach AI and modern business strategy alongside figures like Mark Cuban. He contrasts modern platforms with the dubious info-products of the Web 1.0 era, arguing that practical digital education provides a far superior alternative to traditional academic tracks, where taking on $300,000 in university debt for an MBA credential no longer generates a positive return on investment. While Vaynerchuk outlines substantial upside for entrepreneurs who combine operational AI with physical infrastructure, his thesis relies heavily on consumer skepticism of synthetic media accelerating on a five-year timeline and Western retail markets replicating Asian adoption rates for live social commerce.

VaynerMedia 创始人 Gary Vaynerchuk 指出，生成式人工智能的爆发式普及正在引发社会对“极端模拟”（extreme analog）的强烈反向需求，精明的投资者正在采取兼顾前沿技术效率与真实物理体验的“杠铃策略”，通过布局不可被数字化颠覆的线下资产与重构中端漏斗营销来确立长期护城河。 极端AI驱动物理体验与模拟资产复兴 (7:43) Gary 认为，技术向极度数字化的推进正促成一种文化钟摆效应。他预测在未来五年内，合成媒体技术的逼真程度将令受众难以轻信任何数字视频，这反而使物理真实性与线下体验获得极高溢价。当前众多知名投资者已在这一领域布局：Ari Emanuel 持续下注实体零售、现场演出与活动场地；Josh Kushner 通过旨在对抗颠覆的 Eternal Fund 寻求收购旧金山巨人队（San Francisco Giants）股权；拉斯维加斯 Sphere 场馆亦展现出强劲盈利能力。Gary 与其兄弟 AJ 早在数年前便投资了小众及新兴体育赛事，包括匹克球联盟（Major League Pickleball）、Unrivaled 三人女子篮球、威浮球（Wiffle ball）、国际帆船大奖赛（SailGP）、极限弹跳篮球（SlamBall）以及板式网球（padel）。 实体消费的韧性在多个维度得到数据印证：2025 年全球黑胶唱片销售额在本世纪首次突破 10 亿美元，年增速约 10%，规模接近全球流媒体总收入的 10%；Alpha 世代群体中出现购买翻盖手机的潮流；圣迭戈漫展（San Diego Comic-Con）、全美体育球卡展（Sports Card National）及 Fanatics Fest 等线下集会热度空前。与此同时，麦当劳等跨国企业在推出纯 AI 广告时遭遇公众的强烈抵触，反映出大众对 AI 取代人工的广泛焦虑。作为杠铃策略的落地示例，Gary 提出可构建拥有数十家门店的现代化汽车影院网络，在当下利用 AI 优化日常运营与客服，并在未来 5 至 7 年将其转化为独家放映 AI 生成影视内容并孵化专有 IP 的实体渠道。 零成本分发与中端漏斗营销重构 (0:37) 在数字传播领域，Gary 强调当前媒体内容的边际分发成本已基本归零，企业若未能全力利用多平台、多格式的内容生态，在商业战略上是不可思议的失误。他明确声称，财富 5000 强企业的营销部门目前存在严重浪费，每投入 1 美元营销预算就有 93 美分被白白消耗。这种低效源自品牌方过度执迷于传统漏斗顶层的品牌猜测（如高昂的电视广告与传统赞助），或是机械沿用 2016 年过时的漏斗底层 A/B 测试转化框架。 当下的媒体格局已被社交媒体算法与“TikTok 化”驱动的中端漏斗（mid-funnel）所主导。Gary 建议大型企业应将总营销预算的至少 20% 专项投入到原生社交内容的生产与测试中。企业必须先在中端漏斗通过自然流量验证创意的传播力与受众反馈，唯有经受住自然流量检验的优质内容，才值得追加预算投入到顶层品牌曝光或底层绩效转化中。 直播电商的万亿级红利与结构化机遇 (2:22) 尽管网络直播技术已存在近二十年，但 Gary 预测直播社交电商将在未来十年释放出极其庞大的经济价值。他援引数据指出，中国市场的直播电商年度商品交易总额（GMV）预计在今年达到 1 万亿美元，成为西方平台演进的关键先行指标。目前 TikTok Shop 在美国市场正展现出显著的增长势能，Meta 与 YouTube 亦在积极跟进布局。 针对市场关于平台股权调整后是否需要高额补贴的疑问，Gary 认为具备真实产品力与市场需求的商业模式并不依赖高额补贴即可自然增长。此外，西方数字媒体在垂直日常内容上仍存在巨大结构性空白。例如，若将体育转播级别的多机位演播室与固定节目编排引入家庭烹饪等日常垂直赛道（如每日下午固定开播的交互式烹饪节目），将构成极具商业潜力的未开发广播机遇。 AI时代企业家韧性与实用教育转移 (4:42) 随着 GPT Images 2 等生成式工具降低图像、音视频的制作门槛，高规格的产品视觉生产正被迅速平民化。尽管这引发了诸如服装渲染图与实物不符导致退货率上升等商业摩擦，但 Gary 认为创业者的拼搏韧性（scrappiness）并没有消亡，而是从过去寻找摄影师等基础资源获取，转移到了指挥自主智能体（autonomous agents）工作流与制定顶层创意战略的新维度。 在商业知识获取方面，Gary 批评为了获得名校 MBA 学位而背负 30 万美元债务的做法在现代市场已无法实现正向投资回报（ROI）。他选择与 MasterClass 合作开设商业与 AI 课程，主张通过 Substack、Beehiiv 和 MasterClass 等现代订阅生态，为创业者提供低成本且切合实际技能的教育替代方案。此外，在内容创作规律上，Gary 提出作者的最佳作品往往分布在生涯初期（凭借未受行业陈规束缚的“敏锐双眼”）或生涯晚期（汇聚数十年硬核经验的智慧综合），体现了同样的杠铃模型。 总体而言，节目呈现了 Gary Vaynerchuk 对技术扩张与人性需求之间动态平衡的战略判断：在数字内容因 AI 爆发而极度泛滥之际，稀缺性反而回流至不可复制的物理实体与真诚的线下连接。然而，对于大多数资源有限的普通创业者与中小品牌而言，如何在重资产的线下投入与高频次的 AI 运营工具之间合理配置资本，以及在欧美文化语境下直播电商能否完全重现亚洲市场的万亿级渗透率，仍是需要实践检验的核心课题。

## Background 本期内容由科技商业频道 TBPN 于 2026 年 4 月 24 日在 YouTube 平台发布，记录了对著名创业家兼投资人加里·维纳查克（Gary Vaynerchuk，Gary Vee）的现场直播专访。节目简介指出，双方重点探讨了 AI 爆发与零成本数字分发带来的极端竞争环境，阐述为何这股技术浪潮正推动餐饮、实体零售和现场体验等模拟/实体商业（Analog Businesses）的强劲复兴，以及创业者如何利用“杠铃策略”兼顾 AI 的规模效应与线下的真实体验红利。 ## TL;DR 加里·维纳查克在访谈中提出核心的“杠铃策略”：当 AI 工具抹平视觉与生成门槛、数字内容分发边际成本归零时，线上同质化竞争将逼迫大众渴望真实的物理连接，黑胶唱片大卖、另类体育爆火和线下体验餐饮正是这一潜意识反弹的体现。他认为最聪明的投资者应一边用 AI 极致降本增效，另一边下注不可被数字化的实体硬资产与自建渠道。此外，加里直言传统大企业浪费了 93% 的营销预算，呼吁品牌将至少 20% 的预算转移到有机中端漏斗（Mid-Funnel）的社交内容生产中，并预言以 TikTok Shop 为代表的万亿美元级直播电商即将全面席卷欧美市场。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场访谈节奏紧凑、高频互动且极具现场感染力，充满纽约客式的幽默互怼与直率交锋。加里·维纳查克延续了他标志性的激情澎湃与敏锐直觉，从调侃兄弟情谊、回击昂贵的 MBA 泡沫，到对传统营销浪费的犀利批判，语气坚定而毫不妥协。对谈在轻松诙谐的调侃与发人深省的商业远见之间自如切换，观众既能感受到扑面而来的实战兴奋感，又能清晰触摸到技术大变局下人性格局与商业常识的深刻共鸣。 ## Bulletin - [07:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=466s) Gary Vaynerchuk 提出“杠铃商业策略”，主张一手利用 AI 实现极致的规模化与后台降本，另一手重注无法被数字化替代的实体资产与线下真实体验。 - [09:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=579s) 黑胶唱片单年销售额破 10 亿美元且增长近 10%，反映出消费者对泛滥数字内容与纯 AI 生成广告的疲倦和潜意识反弹。 - [23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1416s) 传统企业营销预算中有 93% 遭到浪费，Gary 建议企业将至少 20% 的营销预算投入到有机社交内容中，以中端漏斗测试驱动顶端品牌建设与底端转化。 - [25:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1553s) 中国直播电商 GMV 规模已达万亿美元级，TikTok Shop 等平台正依靠自身商品力在欧美自驱运转，并即将倒逼 Meta 与 YouTube 全面跟进。 ## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=0s) 内容分发的边际成本在当今媒介生态中已归零，尽早启动多平台分发布局能够积累极大的复利效应。 - [02:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=142s) 垂直细分赛道与高水准制作将重塑直播生态，生活方式与烹饪等垂直领域可借鉴体育赛事直播的制作标准建立社区壁垒。 - [04:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=282s) AI 图像与视觉生成虽然击穿了初创品牌的传统执行门槛，但创业者的破局韧性将转向对智能体（Agentic Agents）的策略协同与调用。 - [07:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=466s) 线上数字信任的崩塌与 AI 内容泛滥正在将顶级投资人推向体育赛事、线下演艺中心等不可替代的物理空间。 - [09:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=579s) 黑胶唱片的逆势爆发与翻盖手机的流行，揭示了公众面对极端算法与纯 AI 营销时产生的潜意识反抗心理。 - [12:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=766s) 匹克球、SlamBall 等另类体育赛事与地方独立餐饮、体验式购物中心等实体连锁资产正迎来巨大的投资溢价机会。 - [16:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=981s) 实体连锁网络可充当自主物理分发渠道，结合 AI 工具低成本生成独家 IP 内容以实现完全自控的商业闭环。 - [19:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1162s) 创作者生涯往往符合杠铃分布：年轻人凭借未被驯化的新鲜视角敢于颠覆旧规，与老将沉淀数十年的厚重智慧同具价值。 - [21:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1309s) 背负 30 万美元债务读传统商学院 MBA 的投资回报率已由正转负，立足于 AI 实操与真实商业的务实在线教育正在重构技能培养体系。 - [23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1416s) 社交媒体的 TikTok 化使中端漏斗（有机社交内容生产）成为核心枢纽，唯有在社媒中跑出的胜出素材才值得注入付费投放预算。 - [25:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1553s) 直播电商是万亿美元级的不可逆赛道，具备自运转实力且无需长期依靠平台补贴即可在西方市场规模化崛起。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=0s) 开场寒暄与“词语组合”梗：早期的多平台战略复利 节目开场，主持人热情欢迎 VaynerMedia 创始人 Gary Vaynerchuk 重返节目。两人一上来就开起了玩笑，主持人问 Gary 是否知道“Wombos”（词语组合，Word Combos），并调侃称如果 2026 年还不玩这个梗就彻底落伍了，比如将 quirky（古怪）与 niche（小众）组合成“queesh”，或者把 lore（背景设定）与 explain（解释）融合成“Lorraine”。 幽默过后，主持人和 Gary 共同回忆起双方在 2025 年第一季度的初次交流。当时节目才刚开播几个月，体量非常小，只做过几次直播。Gary 在那时就给出了非常果断的建议：“加大力度（Go harder）”，并且坚决推行多平台布局（Multi-platform）。他当时质问主持人团队：“为什么你们现在还没有电子报（Newsletter）？为什么不在 YouTube 上以多种形式分发？为什么还没有入驻 Instagram？” 正是听从了这一建议，团队克服了心理障碍，哪怕早期发布的内容质量一般（subpar），也坚持推进。这种尽早启动的举措带来了滚雪球般的复利效应。Gary 强调，任何事物在起步时都是不完美的，就像刚开始健身、唱歌或学开车一样。而在当下的媒体环境下，无论是 B2B 还是 B2C、个人 IP 还是企业，不利用注意力媒体生态是极其不可思议的：人类历史上从未有过一个时期，内容分发的边际成本直接归零。虽然制作优质内容仍需投入成本，但面对零成本的分发渠道，其潜在回报率是极其惊人的。 --- ### [02:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=142s) 直播的进化与垂类内容机遇 对于主持人提出“直播似乎已经发展了十年甚至二十年”的感叹，Gary 提到了自己在 2008 年撰写、2009 年出版的畅销书《Crush It!》（粉碎它），当时他在书末就重点探讨了 Ustream 和实时流媒体。他认为人类和消费者的行为模式本质上总是循环往复的，每一次技术落地既是积累也是新的开端；未来十年内，社交电商直播（Live Social Shopping）对全球商业和个人带来的经济冲击将是不可估量的。 主持人也指出，尽管有上百档节目尝试模仿他们的直播模式，但要真正脱颖而出依然极其困难。现在的机会不仅在于买个摄像头和笔记本挂机聊天，而在于引入更高阶的制作水准（Production Value）并切入垂直细分领域。 - **烹饪直播范例**：打造一个视觉效果出色的厨房场景，布置多机位角度，每天固定下午 3 点直播做晚饭，公开食谱让观众同步参与互动，并邀请不同创作者客串联动。 - **跨行业复制**：传统体育领域在直播制作水准上走在最前列，其他生活方式、垂类领域完全可以借鉴这种高规格的制作模式来建立稳固的社区壁垒。 --- ### [04:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=282s) AI 降低门槛后的新竞争格局与人类的破局智慧 谈及品牌与营销的演进，主持人分享了自己近期因体验新一代图像生成模型（如 GPT Images 2）而产生的震动。以往，产品摄影是检验一个初创团队执行力与人脉资源的试金石——哪怕再缺乏资金，厉害的创业者也能找朋友拍出高级感大片；但现在，高质量的产品摄影被彻底平民化，几条 Prompt 即可完成。主持人担忧，当一切视觉门槛被击穿后，品牌在网上脱颖而出将变得前所未有的艰难。 Gary 对此表示认同，但他指出这只是技术浪潮交替中的又一次重演。生成视频、音频和图像的能力已经达到过去几代人无法想象的高度，但这并不意味着人类的竞争力消失了。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 技术演进与人类韧性迭代模型 accDescr: 展示从传统技术到 AI 时代，技术抹平旧壁垒后人类韧性迁移到新策略的流程。 subgraph TechEvolution["历史技术范式演进"] T1["历史变革<br/>(电力 / 汽车 / 打字机)"] --> T2["数字与互联网<br/>(PC / 开源 / 社交媒体)"] T2 --> T3["AI 与 Agent 时代<br/>(自动化生成 / Agentic Agents)"] end subgraph HumanAdvantage["核心竞争力迁移"] H1["原有的执行韧性<br/>(如寻找摄影师朋友)"] --> H2["探索先发红利<br/>(尝鲜新兴 AI 工具与机制)"] H2 --> H3["策略与创造力重构<br/>(驾驭智能体协同作战)"] end TechEvolution --> HumanAdvantage ``` 在 Gary 看来，从打字机取代手工誊写、计算机和移动设备普及，再到如今的 AI 与智能体（Agentic Agents），技术永远在重新洗牌： - **工具的认知差**：当下能够敏锐意识到最新工具潜力的玩家，依然拥有先发时间窗口。 - **智能体协同策略**：真正的差距在于使用者如何以创造性和战略性思维调用智能体，以及如何理解并驾驭这些自动化流程。 - **韧性的转移**：创业者当初为了解决产品摄影而展现出的那种“野蛮生长、设法搞定”（Scrappy）的特质并不会消失，他们会把这种解决问题的生存本能投入到新的战略洼地中去。 --- ### [07:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=466s) 杠铃理论：极限 AI 催生“极限实体与复古潮” 随着线上内容被 AI 全面淹没，Gary 与主持人不约而同地提出了“杠铃理论”（The Barbell Strategy）。与其在 Instagram 或 TikTok 上与上万个同质化的 AI 生成品牌厮杀，实体空间反而成为了未被开发的价值洼地。Gary 强调，这不是非此即彼的选择，而是“兼而有之（And）”——一手抓极限 AI 带来的规模化杠杆，另一手重注实体与体验。 Gary 预测，未来十年的技术跃迁会让 2036 年看起来如同 2050 年般科幻，但这种极致的技术反扑将戏剧性地引发“1950 年代生活方式的全面复兴”： - **资本与巨头动向**：以 Ari Emanuel 等名人为代表的顶级投资者，正在大举布局无法被数字化的实体商业、线下演艺中心、体育赛事和现场活动体验。 - **线下餐饮的重塑**：作为餐饮投资人，Gary 极力推动合伙人开设一种激进的“反数字”餐厅——顾客一进门必须寄存手机，围坐在长条共享大桌上与陌生人面对面交流。 - **复古与真实体验的渴求**：年轻一代（如 Gen Alpha）主动购买功能单一的翻盖手机（Flip phones）、黑胶唱片销量回升，以及球星卡、动漫展（如 San Diego Comic-Con、Fanatics Fest）等实体收藏品经济的爆发，都证明了人类对“看得见、摸得着”的真实连接与线下社区的极度饥渴。 - **数字信任崩塌的倒逼**：未来五年内，随着 AI 生成技术的高度逼真，人们在互联网上将无法再轻易相信任何一段视频的真实性；这种对虚幻数字世界的幻灭，终将把大众和最聪明的投资者推回物理世界。 ### [09:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=579s) 实体逆袭与反数字化浪潮：黑胶唱片年销破十亿背后的消费者反抗 真正的创业者绝不会坐以待毙、为 AI 摧毁传统岗位而哀鸣，他们思考的是 AI 规模化铺开后所催生的反向契机。以摄影师为例，即便传统摄影受到冲击，也完全有可能开辟出全新的竞争维度。这种反向机会正在实体消费领域剧烈爆发。在数字流媒体大行其道的当下，黑胶唱片迎来惊人复兴，本世纪内单年销售额首次突破 10 亿美元大关，2025 年销量增长近 10%，体量不仅彻底超越了 CD，甚至达到了全球流媒体收入的约 10%。 面对这一复古热潮，Gary 指出这绝非单纯的墙面装饰或怀旧收藏，其更深层的动力是消费者对极端数字化的“潜意识反弹”。公众对于数字算法的无孔不入感到疲倦与警惕，大品牌在尝试纯 AI 营销时就常常遭遇激烈抵制——比如麦当劳等巨头一旦推出纯 AI 生成的电视广告或社交媒体内容，就会因公众对“AI 剥夺人类工作”的普遍恐慌而引来巨大公愤。因此，消费者开始有意识或无意识地实施“反向行为”，寻找更具质感与真实体验的实体媒介。 这种文化回潮同样遵循着经典的行为扩散规律：最初往往由布鲁克林的前卫酷文化小圈子掀起反潮流风尚，随后曼哈顿人群为了不落俗套而跟进模仿，进而蔓延至加利福尼亚、得克萨斯、佛罗里达乃至全球。Gary 激动地感叹，这是人类自我纠偏能力的完美体现——大众严重低估了人类物种在面对极端技术变迁时的自我调整与适应韧性，"人类的适应力简直不可思议，让我们为自己鼓掌"。 - **黑胶唱片爆发式增长**：年销售额正式跨过 10 亿美元门槛，2025 年增长约 10%，规模接近全球流媒体总收入的 10%，复兴势头远超 CD。 - **品牌纯 AI 营销遭遇阻力**：大公司试图全面采用 AI 制作广告引发强烈公关反弹，源于大众对失业的深层恐慌。 - **流行趋势传导机制**：从极客亚文化圈层（布鲁克林）向主流商业中心（曼哈顿）扩散，最终成为跨地域的全民潮流。 --- ### [12:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=766s) 避开 AI 颠覆的硬资产：另类体育与实体商业的新红利 在极端数字化时代，那些不可被 AI 颠覆的真实线下体验展现出巨大的投资溢价。节目谈到 Josh Kushner 通过其新成立的“永恒基金”（Eternal Fund）寻求收购旧金山巨人队（San Francisco Giants）的股份，正是看中了体育赛事这种具备常青生命力、绝不可能被 AI 取代的物理属性；而此前备受债务质疑的拉斯维加斯球体馆（Sphere），其母公司股价如今已暴涨近三倍。Gary 对此直言，无论是数字分发的去中心化，还是实体资产的不可替代性，都验证了其早在六七年前便坚决重注“另类体育赛事”的逻辑。 Gary 与弟弟 AJ 早期便大举布局体育资产，涵盖了近年来急速蹿红的匹克球（Pickleball）、三人女子篮球联赛 Unrivaled、打草地板球的 Wiffle Ball 联赛、职业帆船赛、全美蹦床灌篮联赛 SlamBall 以及板式网球（Padel）。他强调，不仅是顶级传统球队或超级场馆具有吸引力，更大的商业空间隐藏在庞大而分散的实体连锁之中：比如私募股权基金完全可以打包收购 900 家地方独立餐厅形成庞大资产池，因为消费者迫切希望走出家门用餐，而非整日依赖 Seamless 叫外卖；或者收购传统购物中心，不将其改造为乏味的数据中心，而是打造成集体验娱乐与复古购物于一体的社交场域。 Gary 还举出了一个看似异想天开却极具可行性的点子：复活 20 世纪 50、60 年代盛行的“汽车露天电影院”（Drive-in Movie Theater）。如果有人能以现代化的高水准执行力重新打造这一业态，迅速连锁化扩张到三四十家，其产生的情绪价值与商业回报将彻底颠覆传统 PE 的想象。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 极端数字化时代的哑铃商业模式 accDescr: 展示了左侧AI数字化规模与右侧实体体验资产结合的双轮驱动架构 subgraph DigitalSide ["数字极客端 (极致降本与规模化)"] AI_Tools["AI 生产力矩阵<br/>(内容快速生成 / 7x24 即时客服)"] Direct_Dist["去中心化分发<br/>(社交媒体矩阵与自营渠道)"] AI_Tools --> Direct_Dist end subgraph AnalogSide ["实体资产端 (不可替代的物理壁垒)"] Live_Sports["另类体育联盟<br/>(Pickleball / Unrivaled / SlamBall)"] Offline_Experience["线下沉浸业态<br/>(现代汽车影院 / 体验式商场 / 连锁餐饮)"] end subgraph Convergence ["商业变现闭环"] Combined_Play["哑铃策略落地<br/>线下自持场景作为物理分发入口<br/>利用 AI 低成本自制 IP 内容实现独播与裂变"] end DigitalSide --> Convergence AnalogSide --> Convergence ``` --- ### [16:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=981s) 哑铃策略与自有 IP：用 AI 生成内容武装实体分发渠道 在探讨汽车露天电影院等实体业态时，讨论深入到了“哑铃策略”的核心：进军实体并不意味着摒弃技术，而是将 AI 的极致效率与实体渠道的不可替代性进行双向赋能。在日常运营层面，经营者可以利用 AI 工具实现全天候即时响应消费者咨询、自动化解决客诉纠纷，大幅削减后台管理成本。 更具颠覆性的玩法在于“自建渠道反哺自制 IP”。Gary 设想，假使在七年内建立起拥有 40 家连锁汽车影院的线下网络，届时经营者完全可以借助日渐成熟的 AI 视频生成工具，针对儿童或家庭群体低成本制作独家原创动画与电影，并在自己的线下放映网络中进行独家分发，从零建立起完全自主掌控的 IP 帝国。 这种前瞻性的布局正如 Gary 当年被群嘲的商业决策一样：早期他在 Twitter 刚兴起时出书断言“人人都可以在 Twitter 上成为个人品牌”，彼时引来无数讥笑，如今却成为无可争议的现实；而在多年前他创立 VeeFriends、打造类似宝可梦与芝麻街的 IP 资产时，虽然初期借助了区块链，但底层驱动力正是源于硅谷顶尖好友关于“机器学习与 AI 即将井喷”的前沿预警。只有提前在数字端与物理端双向落子，才能在技术浪潮全面降临时占据制高点。 - **AI 运营赋能**：实体连锁借助 AI 客服实现毫秒级客户响应与工单化解，大幅降低边际人力成本。 - **自持渠道与 IP 闭环**：摆脱传统好莱坞院线与流媒体盘剥，用 AI 制作低门槛长尾内容，通过自营线下空间直接触达受众。 - **历史前瞻验证**：从早期的 Twitter 个人品牌论到 VeeFriends 的 IP 构建，商业模式往往在最初遭受质疑，随后演变为行业常识。 --- ### [17:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1055s) 聊天室的“Ryan 天团”：斯多葛主义、个人品牌与媒体人生的启示 节目的互动公屏被一群名为“Ryan”的观众刷屏，主持人顺势抛出趣味提问，让 Gary 分享自己生命中与多位著名“Ryan”相处的真实感悟与人生启示——包括畅销书作家 Ryan Holiday、房产经纪兼红人 Ryan Serhant，以及他的商业合伙人 Ryan Harwood。 Gary 首先开玩笑地调侃自己从 Ryan Harwood 身上“什么都没学到，彻头彻尾的零”，引发录音室一片大笑。随后他认真剖析了 Ryan Holiday 对自己的深远启发：Gary 一直将自己的母亲视为人生英雄，母亲教会了他如何做一个幸福纯粹的人，将爱、健康、淳朴与移民的坚韧置于金钱竞争之上。但直到读到了 Ryan Holiday 关于“斯多葛主义”（Stoicism）的著作与言论，Gary 才猛然惊觉，自己多年来践行的人生哲学终于找到了严谨的学术注脚和思想名称，这种哲学共鸣让他深受震动。 谈及因出演真人秀《百万美金交易员》（Million Dollar Listing）而走红的地产大亨 Ryan Serhant 时，Gary 盛赞了其惊人的好奇心与谦逊品质。在 Serhant 的 Bravo 电视节目停播、新节目尚未上线 Netflix（《打造曼哈顿》）的空窗期内，Serhant 频繁出入 Vayner 的商业生态圈，潜心学习社交媒体操盘法，不惜一切代价深耕个人品牌分发，成功凭借线上影响力跨越了传统媒体周期的低谷。Serhant 对新媒介玩法的毫无包袱与全身心投入，令 Gary 由衷感到赞赏与自豪。 - **Ryan Harwood**：Gary 旗下 Gallery Media Group 的核心搭档，在节目中被 Gary 以幽默打趣的方式调侃“学不到任何东西”。 - **Ryan Holiday 与斯多葛主义**：帮助 Gary 将母亲传授的“爱、健康高于一切”的生活直觉与斯多葛哲学体系无缝对接。 - **Ryan Serhant 的自媒体跨越**：在传统电视通告断档的数年间，放下身段向自媒体打法取经，通过社交矩阵完成个人品牌的二次飞跃并重返流媒体巅峰。 ### [19:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1162s) 兄弟情谊与年轻人出书的“杠铃法则” 对谈在一段轻松的调侃中开场。主持人提到加里·维纳查克（Gary Vaynerchuk）对朋友“开火”互怼的相处模式，加里笑称对方不仅是挚友更是如同家人一般的存在。他幽默地解释道，对方是长岛人，自己是新泽西长大的“泽西男孩”（Jersey boy），在他们那片土地的文化里，对兄弟尽情嘲弄挖苦才是爱之深沉的终极表达——“在 1985 年到 2000 年间，我最好的朋友们嘴里蹦出来的词，大概有 98% 都是对我极度大不敬的”。这种毫不客气的彼此拆台，正是最铁关系的见证。 话题随后切入青年创作与写作。主持人提出，瑞安·霍利迪（Ryan Holiday）在 25 岁时就写出了轰动一时的《相信我，我在撒谎》（*Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator*）；而在日常节目中，很多才华横溢的年轻人也梦想写书，却往往被一种观念束缚，认为必须等到 40 岁、50 岁甚至 60 岁拥有足够的人生阅历之后才配谈“智慧”。加里对此给出了截然不同、且暗合其“杠铃策略”的洞察：他认为写书就像音乐人做第一张个人专辑，“你有一整辈子的时间去准备这第一张专辑”。回看自己在 2008 年写下第一本书时的状态，加里至今仍会惊叹当年为何能迸发出那样的前瞻视野。 加里坚信，年轻人不应抑制自己的表达欲，因为“初生牛犊的双眼是危险的双眼”（"Fresh eyes are dangerous eyes"）。年轻人没有被昨日的规则条框所驯化，一无所知反而赋予了他们颠覆旧规、大胆创新的危险力量；而那些经历数十年风雨的老将，则拥有将生涯沉淀融会贯通的厚重智慧。因此，绝大多数人的创作生涯呈现出典型的杠铃分布：最好的作品往往要么出现在最初（毫无偏见的破局锐气），要么出现在最后（阅尽千帆的终极总结）。 ### [21:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1309s) 牵手 MasterClass：替代 30 万美元 MBA 的实用 AI 教育 被问及近期与 MasterClass 的合作时，加里梳理了自己多年来对待“知识付费”态度的变迁。在 Web 1.0 时代（1997 至 1998 年前后），互联网上售卖所谓信息的行当声名狼藉，充斥着定价 150 美元却毫无价值的劣质电子书。加里由于极度爱惜羽毛，在长达十余年里刻意远离所有带订阅、付费墙色彩的平台（包括早期的 Patreon 和各类课程平台）。然而，随着近年 Substack、Beehiiv 以及高质量制作的 MasterClass 兴起，优质内容创作者获得了应有的体面与市场尊重，整个行业生态已彻底重塑。 加里透露，MasterClass 此前曾向他发出过多次邀约，而这次他终于决定携手马克·库班（Mark Cuban）等嘉宾加入，核心动机在于这门课程直击当下的社会痛点：提供一种花费极低、立足于现实商业与人工智能（AI）实操的当代教育，以对抗传统商学院昂贵且过时的学术泡沫。 - **击碎学历溢价**：无数年轻人为了名校光环背负高达 30 万美元的沉重债务去读传统 MBA，然而那枚校徽早已无法带来预期的超额财务回报，其商业性价比（ROI）已彻底由正转负。 - **实战型技能重构**：该课程专注于现代 AI 在营销策略、生产制造和企业日常运作中的落地赋能，致力于用近乎零成本的实操常识代替昂贵的虚妄光环。 ### [23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1416s) 传统营销正在浪费 93% 的预算：中端漏斗的统治时代 在谈及 Fortune 500（财富 500 强）企业首席营销官（CMO）们面对 AI 浪潮应如何调整营销组合（Marketing Mix）时，加里给出了极具冲击力的断言。他指出，大公司最严重的问题不在于他们“说了什么”，而在于他们落后的“实际行动”： > “每一位正在看本期节目的观众，都深度投资了那些在营销上砸下巨资的大公司。但我可以明确告诉你：你们的营销部门每花出 1 美元，就浪费掉了整整 93 美分。” 加里分析道，传统的营销架构依赖顶端漏斗（Upper Funnel，靠巨额赞助和自嗨式的品牌大片去凭空猜测用户喜好）和底端漏斗（Lower Funnel，停留在 2016 年水平的陈旧 A/B 测试）。然而，随着社交媒体的“TikTok 化”（TikTokification），整个营销界被彻底颠覆，**中端漏斗（Mid-Funnel，即有机社交内容生产）如今吞噬并主导了整个世界**。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代中端漏斗营销飞轮 accDescr: 展示以中端社交内容有机生产为核心枢纽，反哺顶层品牌建设与底层效果转化的闭环营销模型。 subgraph MidFunnel["中端漏斗：内容生产与有机社交 (核心枢纽)"] A["日常内容生产\n(长视频、播客、访谈等)"] --> B["切片制作与有机社交分发\n(TikTok / Reels / Shorts 等)"] B --> C{"真实受众反馈与数据筛选"} end subgraph UpperFunnel["顶端漏斗：品牌建设 (不再盲猜)"] D["品牌端杠杆放大\n(将经过有机验证的热门创意做成大曝光投放)"] end subgraph LowerFunnel["底端漏斗：效果转化 (告别过时测试)"] E["效果广告投流\n(将高互动素材精准导入销售变现闭环)"] end C -- "脱颖而出的优质洞察" --> D C -- "高购买意图的切片内容" --> E ``` 加里以眼前的对谈为例直观拆解：这场录像本身就是一次中端漏斗的内容生产；录制结束后，素材会被剪辑加工成数百条有机社交切片，直接投入社媒中端进行真实受众测试。只有在有机传播中真正被算法和用户选出的胜出素材，才配获得付费投流的资格——向上转化为品牌资产，向下转化为效果变现。 加里强烈呼吁，全球任何一家品牌都应该**将其全部营销预算的至少 20% 纯粹投入到有机社交媒体的内容生产上**，彻底停止在未经市场验证的巨额广告创意上盲目烧钱。至于 AI，在加里眼中正是服务于这套中端流水线、实现工业化降本提效的基础设施与终极工具。 ### [25:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1553s) 直播电商的万亿浪潮与 TikTok Shop 的自驱力 节目尾声，加里争分夺秒地抛出另一个被主流商业严重低估的爆发赛道——直播电商（Live Commerce）。他严肃提醒所有面向消费者的企业，绝不能对全球趋势视而不见： - **万亿美元级规模**：中国今年的直播带货商品交易总额（GMV）将达到不可思议的 1 万亿美元规模。 - **欧美巨头的连带效应**：以 TikTok Shop 为代表的平台已经在美国市场跑出了实打实的惊人交易数据；随着这股浪潮席卷，Meta 必然会在短时间内跟进发力，进而逼迫 YouTube 也全面押注该领域。 主持人追问，在 TikTok 面临股权变更或被收购的背景下，新买家是否还会愿意持续投入资金补贴 TikTok Shop。加里对此给予了极其干脆而犀利的否定回答：“他们根本不需要补贴。TikTok Shop 是凭实力在运转的（works on merit）。这世上只有垃圾烂产品才需要靠倒贴来生存。” 在欢声笑语中，加里结束了连线。主持人随即向观众预告了后续环节：从后院种出 900 磅巨型南瓜的趣闻及其对“AI 缩放定律（Scaling Laws）”的奇妙隐喻，并准备连线等待室里的下一位嘉宾——Humble Robotics 创始人兼首席执行官阿亚尔·科恩（Ayal Cohen）。 ## Notable quotes > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=0s) 人类历史上从未有过一个时期，内容分发的边际成本直接归零。 — Gary Vaynerchuk > [02:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=142s) 未来十年内，社交电商直播对全球商业和个人带来的经济冲击将是不可估量的。 — Gary Vaynerchuk > [09:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=579s) 人类的适应力简直不可思议，让我们为自己鼓掌。 — Gary Vaynerchuk > [19:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1162s) 在 1985 年到 2000 年间，我最好的朋友们嘴里蹦出来的词，大概有 98% 都是对我极度大不敬的。 — Gary Vaynerchuk > [19:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1162s) 初生牛犊的双眼是危险的双眼（Fresh eyes are dangerous eyes）。 — Gary Vaynerchuk > [23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1416s) 每一位正在看本期节目的观众，都深度投资了那些在营销上砸下巨资的大公司。但我可以明确告诉你：你们的营销部门每花出 1 美元，就浪费掉了整整 93 美分。 — Gary Vaynerchuk > [23:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1416s) 将其全部营销预算的至少 20% 纯粹投入到有机社交媒体的内容生产上。 — Gary Vaynerchuk > [25:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8&t=1553s) 他们根本不需要补贴。TikTok Shop 是凭实力在运转的（works on merit）。这世上只有垃圾烂产品才需要靠倒贴来生存。 — Gary Vaynerchuk ## Mentioned Gary Vaynerchuk, TBPN, VaynerMedia, VeeFriends, Gallery Media Group, Ryan Holiday, Ryan Serhant, Ryan Harwood, Mark Cuban, Josh Kushner, Ari Emanuel, Ayal Cohen, Humble Robotics, MasterClass, TikTok Shop, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Meta, GPT Images 2, Sphere, 旧金山巨人队 (San Francisco Giants), Unrivaled, SlamBall, Pickleball, Padel, Wiffle Ball, 《Crush It!》, 《相信我，我在撒谎》(Trust Me, I'm Lying), Substack, Beehiiv, Patreon, Seamless, San Diego Comic-Con, Fanatics Fest, Netflix, Bravo ## Video description This is our full interview with Gary Vaynerchuk, recorded live on TBPN. We discuss his belief that the explosion of AI and zero-cost digital distribution is creating unprecedented competition online, why that shift is driving a massive resurgence in analog businesses like restaurants, retail, and live experiences, and how entrepreneurs can win by playing both sides of the barbell, leveraging AI for scale while building real-world, experiential businesses that consumers are increasingly craving. Sign up for TBPN’s daily newsletter at TBPN.com Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wVmUVXsw8)

[0:00] Gary Vaynerchuk: 人类历史上从未有过一个时期，内容分发的边际成本直接归零。 [2:22] Gary Vaynerchuk: 未来十年内，社交电商直播对全球商业和个人带来的经济冲击将是不可估量的。 [9:39] Gary Vaynerchuk: 人类的适应力简直不可思议，让我们为自己鼓掌。 [19:22] Gary Vaynerchuk: 在 1985 年到 2000 年间，我最好的朋友们嘴里蹦出来的词，大概有 98% 都是对我极度大不敬的。 [19:22] Gary Vaynerchuk: 初生牛犊的双眼是危险的双眼（Fresh eyes are dangerous eyes）。 [23:36] Gary Vaynerchuk: 每一位正在看本期节目的观众，都深度投资了那些在营销上砸下巨资的大公司。但我可以明确告诉你：你们的营销部门每花出 1 美元，就浪费掉了整整 93 美分。 [23:36] Gary Vaynerchuk: 将其全部营销预算的至少 20% 纯粹投入到有机社交媒体的内容生产上。 [25:53] Gary Vaynerchuk: 他们根本不需要补贴。TikTok Shop 是凭实力在运转的（works on merit）。这世上只有垃圾烂产品才需要靠倒贴来生存。

[20:01] Gary Vaynerchuk: fresh eyes are dangerous eyes. [0:37] Gary Vaynerchuk: go harder [7:43] Gary Vaynerchuk: extreme AI creates extreme analog [16:13] Gary Vaynerchuk: Pokémon meets Sesame Street [17:35] Gary Vaynerchuk: absolutely nothing [20:01] Gary Vaynerchuk: yesterday's rules

[0:00] Gary Vaynerchuk from Vayner Media. Gary, [0:02] how are you doing? Welcome back to the [0:04] show. [0:04] >> do you know about Wombos? [0:07] I do not, my friend. [0:08] >> You got to learn about Wombos. [0:08] >> to learn about Wombos. They are the next [0:10] meta. They are the next meta. If you're [0:12] not doing Wombos in 2026, you're getting [0:15] left behind. [0:16] >> are word combos. So, the example would [0:19] be uh a a queesh is quirky and niche. [0:23] You put it together and that's queesh. [0:25] Or Lorraine, lore plus explain. [0:28] >> that's a that's a that was a risky start [0:30] for the first word. I'm Yeah, that's a [0:31] risky start. Lorraine Lorraine is a [0:33] better Lorraine is a better one. Give me [0:35] if I say Lorraine [0:37] >> Boys, first first and foremost, [0:40] congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. [0:42] I really appreciate [0:43] >> Thank you. [0:45] Uh I remember I remember our very first [0:47] call. I think it was in Q1 of 2025. So, [0:50] we were just maybe [0:52] like a little a little just a few months [0:54] into the show and you even at that point [0:56] we were very very very small. I think we [0:58] had maybe just gone live a [1:00] a few times and you told us you guys you [1:04] said go harder. We were already going [1:06] pretty hard, but you said go harder. And [1:08] uh we certainly did. So, [1:10] And go multi-platform. That was really [1:12] huge, too. You you you were you were [1:14] very early in like why don't you have a [1:16] newsletter right now? Why aren't you on [1:17] YouTube in multiple ways? Why aren't you [1:19] on Instagram yet? And so, we did the [1:22] uncomfortable thing of posting pretty [1:24] subpar content for a while, but it [1:26] started the compounding very very early [1:28] and now it's stuff really much better. [1:30] Everything start starts subpar, right? [1:33] Like when you start working out or when [1:34] you start singing or driving like you [1:36] know, like [1:37] I for everybody who's watching right [1:39] now, every business, every personal [1:41] brand, [1:42] every B2B, every B2C, [1:45] the to take to not take advantage of the [1:48] attention media landscape that's in [1:50] place right now, [1:52] um [1:53] it it's really incomprehensible to me. [1:56] It's there's never been a time in the [1:57] history of humanity or business where [2:01] the cost of distribution is zero for the [2:04] distribution. It's there's costs in the [2:05] content and then what do you do it, but [2:08] the upside is so extraordinary against [2:10] the investment. And when you frame it up [2:13] properly multi-channel, multi-format, [2:16] the the business outcomes could be [2:18] extraordinary and [2:20] I'm happy to see you guys get one. Yeah. [2:22] Thank you. Are you Is it Is it Is it [2:24] funny that uh is it funny to you that [2:27] that it feels like [2:29] it feels like in some ways we're like a [2:30] decade into live streaming and yet Two [2:34] decades in by [2:35] Well, yeah, two decades by some [2:37] measures, but like Twitch has been big [2:38] for a long time. There's been so much [2:40] attention there. [2:42] >> I mean I wrote [2:43] I wrote this book in 2008. It came out [2:45] in '09. Crush it in the back of the [2:47] book. I talk about Ustream and live [2:49] streaming. [2:50] Yeah, I mean, you know, it ebbs and [2:52] flows and to your point like I mean I [2:54] can't even comprehend the economic [2:56] impact live social shopping is going to [2:58] do over the next 10 years for humans and [3:00] consumer businesses. Um yeah, it's all [3:03] the same stuff, brother. It's always [3:05] been around forever and it's always the [3:07] beginning, right? Like it's just kind of [3:09] the way consumer behavior and human [3:11] behavior works. Um [3:13] Yeah, it does it does surprise me how [3:15] many more people have not replicated the [3:17] very, [3:18] you know, basic digital framework that [3:20] you guys executed in this genre. It's [3:22] available for Well, the interesting the [3:23] interesting thing is we there's there's [3:25] easily been a hundred a hundred shows [3:29] that have like taken some level of [3:32] inspiration from what we're doing. It's [3:34] still very very hard it's still very [3:36] very hard to break through, right? [3:38] There's it's not just it's not just the [3:39] overlay and the format, but I have been [3:42] I I've been very confident. I've said [3:44] this on podcasts for [3:46] you know, we've talked about this going [3:48] back probably six six to eight months [3:50] ago. [3:51] You should take this format of a live [3:53] stream and you just add an extra level [3:55] of production beyond you just have a [3:57] laptop there and you're hanging out and [3:59] you apply that. The example we'd always [4:01] talk about is like cooking where all you [4:03] need is like a cool kitchen, you're [4:05] that's your set, you have a couple of [4:07] cameras, so you have different angles [4:09] and then you just say, "Hey, every day [4:11] at 3:00 p.m. I'm going to cook dinner. [4:14] This is what I'm going to cook. Here's [4:15] the schedule. You can make dinner with [4:17] me." And I think that that's like an [4:18] entire niche that you could build [4:19] around. You could integrate guests into [4:22] something like that, too. So, you have [4:23] different content creators coming [4:25] through every day and then I think you [4:27] can apply that to a bunch of other [4:28] things. Sports is on been the most [4:30] advanced in terms of live streaming. [4:34] Um so, credit credit to them. [4:36] Yeah, I mean, it's it's [4:38] it's there for the taking. A lot of [4:40] things are there for the taking. [4:41] Yeah. [4:42] Uh how are you thinking about uh how [4:46] branding and marketing will evolve. I [4:48] had this interesting moment this week [4:50] with the [4:51] uh GBT images two launch where suddenly [4:54] any brand like basically fully [4:56] democratized high quality [4:58] product photography. Now, there's still [5:00] categories where like I don't want you [5:01] to AI generate the the product [5:04] photography. Like even apparel is [5:05] actually interesting where like fit [5:07] matters a lot. And so, if you generate a [5:09] bunch of AI images of your shirt and [5:12] then I buy it and it doesn't fit well, [5:13] like I'm not going to be happy about it, [5:15] but for a bunch of categories it's cool. [5:18] And I was kind of have this like kind of [5:19] strange moment where [5:22] uh it used to be you could identify an [5:24] entrepreneur's ability by their product [5:27] photography in some way cuz even if [5:29] somebody's like bootstrapped and [5:30] scrappy, like they would find that [5:32] friend and say like, "Hey, do me a [5:34] favor. Help me get [cough] some great [5:35] images." And you could kind of [5:37] categorize like a company that you're [5:38] seeing online like, "Okay, could this [5:40] person figure out how to get great [5:42] product photography or not?" But now the [5:44] bar is just so much lower. You're you're [5:46] like a couple prompts away from it. And [5:48] so, it feels like it's going to be [5:49] harder than ever to stand out online. [5:53] Well, I mean, [5:54] there's a lot there. I mean, it's [5:57] we just got done talking about how hard [5:59] it is to stand out online. [6:01] Right? Like like the [6:03] the cost of entry is zero, but you know, [6:07] this is a competition. Like, you know, [6:10] everyone's trying and so, everyone will [6:13] make content, video, picture, audio at a [6:16] level that is incomprehensible to all of [6:19] us that were born prior to 5 minutes ago [6:22] and this will be another transition. [6:24] I think, you know, there's there's [6:27] always going to be [6:29] um [6:31] a timing game to this, right? So, right [6:33] now, you know, like [6:36] this open claw, [6:38] you know, allows me to do things that a [6:39] lot of people aren't thinking about [6:41] right now and me knowing that and me [6:43] playing with that and then even more [6:45] interestingly, how creative or strategic [6:48] am I with the agentic agents and what [6:50] are they doing for me and how do I [6:51] understand it blah blah blah blah blah. [6:53] So, I think it's kind of always going to [6:55] be the same thing like whether it was [6:56] electricity and some people put [6:58] electricity in their home and other [6:59] people were scared to cuz there was [7:01] demons in it or, you know, car or the [7:04] the you know, the typewriter is one that [7:06] I've like been fascinated by the [7:09] competitive advantages of the companies [7:10] that actually brought typewriters in [7:12] versus, you know, putting penmanship on [7:14] a pedestal. You know, like it's just and [7:17] computers and the internet and mobile [7:19] devices and open source versus closed [7:21] source and social media. Now, AI, you [7:25] know, look, this AI thing is no joke. We [7:28] all know that. It's big stakes. There's [7:30] a lot to it. [7:31] But, you know, I still think whatever [7:33] that human was to being scrappy to find [7:36] their friend for the photography, [7:38] you know, that scrappiness is going to [7:40] be deployed into something else. [7:43] Totally. Totally. And so, I also think [7:46] right? And I also think that we're about [7:48] to see the explosion of analog, right? [7:50] Like I think this barbell that I keep [7:52] thinking about Totally. I I've been [7:53] thinking like, "Okay, you want to start [7:55] an apparel brand? Do you want to go on [7:56] Instagram or TikTok and duke it out with [7:58] like 10,000 other brands?" Or why don't [8:00] you like find somebody that has a retail [8:03] store that they can't rent out and like [8:05] do a deal with them and just try to get [8:07] big in your hometown again, you know? [8:09] >> And and my argument would be would be [8:11] and. [8:13] Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like to me this bar [8:15] like I just extreme AI I think is [8:19] creating extreme analog. I really do [8:21] think it's a barbell. I think in the [8:23] next 10 years, obviously it's 2036, but [8:26] I feel like it's going to feel like [8:27] 2050, which actually is bringing the [8:29] rise of 1950. I couldn't be more [8:32] impressed with what Ari Emanuel and [8:34] others are doing that are investing in [8:36] all these analog businesses. I I could [8:38] not be more interested in physical [8:40] retail, in event-driven businesses, in [8:44] concerts and venues and I I think the [8:47] rise of analog. I have a restaurant [8:48] business [8:50] part of a restaurant group. I keep [8:52] pushing my partners who really [8:53] operating, "Let's open a restaurant that [8:55] makes people check in their phone as [8:57] soon as they walk in. Let's put people [8:58] in group tables." Like I [9:01] you know, you see what's happening with [9:02] flip phones. [9:04] Gen Alpha buying them. We see vinyl [9:06] sales. You know, I've been very at the [9:07] forefront of collectibles. I felt [9:09] collectibles was something tangible and [9:12] was a gateway drug to community. If [9:14] you've never been to San Diego Comic-Con [9:17] or the Sports Card National or Fanatics [9:19] Fest. So, I think there's a lot of [9:21] interesting non-digital [clears throat] [9:22] realities that are coming as a counter [9:25] move to the insanity of AI advancements. [9:28] We're literally within a half decade not [9:30] believing a single video. Not a single [9:32] video. That's fun. The internet [9:34] like [9:35] >> [clears throat] [9:35] >> in 5 years if we're having this video [9:37] this interview right now, [9:39] most of the audience is trying to figure [9:41] out if we're real or not. [9:42] >> [laughter] [9:43] >> That is that is very real and has real [9:46] substantial counter opportunities. So, [9:50] you know, the photographer who's sad [9:53] when they hear that, I'm like, "No, no, [9:54] no, you might actually crush in a [9:56] different way." and so I'm curious to [9:58] see what the counter uh scaled moves are [10:02] going to be of the next decade and I [10:03] think for any real entrepreneur [10:06] they're not crying about AI killing [10:08] them. They're curious about what AI at [10:11] scale is going to create opportunity for [10:13] them. Okay. Totally. All right, let's go [10:16] deeper on analog. I want your reaction [10:18] to this headline that for the first time [10:21] this century vinyl music sales eclipsed [10:25] $1 [10:26] billion in a calendar year. Sales of [10:29] vinyl records are up something like 10% [10:32] in 2025. [10:33] >> Yeah, they're effectively like 10% of [10:35] like global streaming revenue is just [10:38] vinyl still. It's bigger than CDs. It's [10:40] making a bigger comeback than other [10:42] formats. [10:43] What what is your What is your reaction? [10:45] Is it people looking for wall [10:47] decorations? Are they actually listening [10:49] to the vinyl? Do you have any idea of [10:50] like what we should read into that idea [10:53] of this nostalgic format [10:55] >> Are you Are you in your I mean, do you [10:56] see my shelves here? Like only thing [10:59] I've been thinking about for the last [11:00] 7-8 years or not only, but like very hot [11:02] on this. Yeah, I mean, the answer is yes [11:04] to both. Some of it's happening with [11:07] decorative A lot of it's happening with [11:09] collectibles. [11:11] Even more is happening with subconscious [11:14] counter push to extreme digitalization. [11:18] Mhm. Yeah. There are people This is By [11:20] the way, one of the reasons we're not [11:21] going to see unlimited television [11:23] commercials and social media content [11:25] that's just pure AI from the biggest [11:27] companies in the world is every time [11:28] they try to go there, you probably have [11:30] touched on your show, McDonald's, [11:31] others, they get such backlash cuz the [11:33] whole world is so scared that AI is [11:36] going to take their job that the [11:37] consumer's pushing against it and then [11:40] that's one part and then the second part [11:42] is yeah, people are starting to do [11:44] counter behavior consciously and [11:46] unconsciously and [11:48] and and then there's just swings of [11:50] swings of trends like you know, like [11:53] music sounds great in a great record [11:55] player and like people are like, "Oh, [11:56] this is kind of cool, too." And like it [11:57] becomes behavioral. It you know, it [12:00] starts in the same stuff, you know this. [12:01] It's like the Brooklyn extremists are [12:04] like, "Let's go, you know, hippie cool [12:06] culture." And they get their little [12:08] thing in the little sub pocket and it [12:09] bleeds out a little bit, then the [12:10] Manhattanites feel like they're not cool [12:12] anymore, so they do it to keep up with [12:14] the Brooklynites and then we have that [12:16] version everywhere in California, Texas [12:18] and Florida and everywhere in the world. [12:19] And so it's just it's normal consumer [12:21] behavior, but I it is clearly [12:24] a counterpoint to extreme in-feed [12:27] in-digital consumption and I think [12:30] that's great. It's It speaks to the [12:32] thing I most believe in, which is humans [12:34] correct themselves at a level that we [12:36] are [12:37] unbelievably underestimating. The sheer [12:40] adaptability of the human race is [12:42] extraordinary. [12:44] Let's give it up for us. Uh [12:46] >> Sports. I want to Well said. I want to [12:48] talk about sports. [12:49] >> Yeah, I mean, sports are good example. [12:50] We were talking earlier, friend of the [12:52] show, Josh Kushner is looking to acquire [12:55] a stake in in the Giants out of out of [12:57] his new eternal fund, which is [13:00] basically a will seemingly be a [13:02] collection of like, you know, evergreen [13:04] bets that aren't that can't be disrupted [13:07] by AI because I don't want to watch And [13:09] then the Sphere. The Sphere is another [13:10] good example. The Sphere is another good [13:12] example. [13:13] >> Everyone was thinking that that was not [13:15] going to go well. They were worried [13:16] about the debt and the stock is up like [13:18] 3x. It's done very well. [13:20] How are you thinking about both [13:22] opportunities in new physical locations [13:25] like the Sphere and then also in the the [13:29] the the more legacy brands like the San [13:31] Francisco Giants, the New York Mets, the [13:33] different sports franchises out there? [13:36] Yes. [13:38] >> [laughter] [13:43] >> I I You know, it's really interesting to [13:45] tie a couple things together. This [13:48] distribution channel that you and I are [13:50] on right now, right? The fact that [13:52] people watching. Yeah. [13:54] In in a way that 40 years ago somebody [13:56] would have to say, "You guys are good [13:57] faces and you look good and you're [13:59] charismatic and you might get a shot on [14:01] this distribution." This [14:02] decentralization of distribution along [14:05] with [14:06] with this analog and not disrupted by AI [14:09] thing is why six or seven years ago I [14:11] started investing very heavily in [14:12] alternative sports. So, I made a big bet [14:15] on pickleball that I think is going to [14:16] work out quite well. [14:19] Uh [14:19] you know, Unrivaled, the three-on-three [14:21] basketball league, AJ and I, my brother, [14:23] early investors in that. The Wiffle Ball [14:25] League, [14:27] the sailing league, [14:29] slamball. I so I've been very aggressive [14:31] on alternative sport investing, padel. [14:35] So, I'm very bullish on it. I think Josh [14:38] obviously plays at a at a very heavy [14:41] economic level with his funds of that [14:43] nature and everyone like him and others, [14:45] especially him, I have so much pride in [14:47] his building cuz he's done such a great [14:48] job in New York City based and we were [14:50] always like envious of his success. So, [14:52] it's been great to [14:53] his him thrive so much. I think all [14:56] Anyone who does not realize how [14:58] substantial the analog opportunities are [15:01] is is really missing the plot of what's [15:03] happening. And so it gets exciting. It's [15:05] exciting to think that you can invest in [15:07] both something that could get as big as, [15:10] you know, Anthropic in an extreme [15:12] digital world, but also forget about the [15:14] obvious ones like the Giants or the [15:16] Sphere. I'm talking about people rolling [15:19] up 900 local restaurants and building up [15:21] a huge like like compounds 2x what [15:25] anyone in PE would have thought because [15:26] people want to go physically out and eat [15:29] instead of just do seamless. You know, [15:31] somebody buying up shopping malls not to [15:34] make them data centers, but because they [15:36] think they can make a half experiential, [15:39] half old mall shopping environment that [15:41] people are going to be yearning for. [15:44] Here's a left field one like [15:46] the the drive-in movie theater, right? [15:48] The stuff that dominated the '50s and [15:50] '60s. [15:51] When I say that out loud, I'm like, "Do [15:53] you think a modern drive-in movie [15:55] theater, which is done really well and [15:58] executed super well, do you think that a [16:00] lot of people would be about that life?" [16:02] I think we can all agree that yes. [16:03] >> 100%. Yeah. And then what happens to the [16:06] person that does 39 of those and has a [16:08] real business and flips it. So, I I [16:10] think it's a really cool time for a lot [16:13] of us that have watched this show. We're [16:15] like, "Oh, crap. We can play on either [16:18] side of extreme digitalization or [16:20] analog, be creative Well, yeah, the the [16:22] beauty, you know, give [16:24] the example of somebody making like a [16:26] modern chain of drive-in movie theaters [16:29] is like you get all the benefits of AI [16:31] still. You get to You get to use it for [16:35] to instantly respond to any customer [16:37] message and help solve problems. What [16:39] about this? [16:41] Now we're nerding out. What if you have [16:42] 40 of them and now this is 7 years from [16:45] now and you start showing your own films [16:47] that you make in AI and build your own [16:49] IP through your own analog distribution. [16:52] Yeah. Oh, that's a good thing. [16:54] >> see I could see doing that for kids, you [16:56] know, like maybe slightly lower bar, but [16:58] you create your own kind of kids kids [17:00] content. That's Again, a lot of things I [17:03] do get more obvious later. I got made [17:06] fun of writing that book, anyone can be [17:08] a [17:08] >> [clears throat] [17:08] >> personal brand on Twitter. Now it [17:10] doesn't look so funny. [17:12] >> [laughter] [17:13] >> Who's laughing now? Who's laughing now? [17:16] Yeah. But when I started building [17:18] VaynerFriends and like building this [17:19] Pokémon Sesame Street thing, yes, there [17:21] was a lot of blockchain in it, but it [17:23] was a lot of my smartest friends in [17:24] Silicon Valley 5 years ago were like, [17:25] "This AI thing is percolating." You [17:27] know, it was more slang for machine [17:29] learning and then it obviously got [17:31] accelerated real quick, but like [17:34] yeah, I believe in a lot of this stuff. [17:35] Well, speaking of people that are [17:36] watching this show, there is an army of [17:39] people named Ryan in the chat and they [17:41] want to be acknowledged by us. So, I'll [17:44] ask you a question about a Ryan from [17:47] your life. Can you tell me something you [17:48] learned from Ryan Serhant or Ryan [17:51] Holiday or maybe Ryan Harwood? Do any of [17:53] these names conjure any interesting [17:56] stories or life lessons? Yeah, the Ryan [17:58] lineup is good. I mean, Ryan Harwood [18:00] I've learned nothing from. Zero. [18:02] Absolutely nothing. Let's just put that [18:03] on the table. [18:04] >> [laughter] [18:06] >> Uh you know, [18:07] Ryan Holiday was definitely the [18:09] individual that I was like finally put a [18:11] word to kind of how I was living my [18:13] life, right? I know my mother's my hero. [18:16] She told me just how to be a really [18:18] happy human. You know, I thought it was [18:20] immigrant and I thought it was [18:21] simplicity and I thought it was, you [18:23] know, love and health over everything [18:25] and truly truly not just cliche [18:27] but live your life that way [18:29] even if you're an entrepreneur in a [18:30] capitalist and want to compete. But when [18:34] Ryan Holiday started talking about being [18:35] a stoic and stoicism, I was like, "Oh." [18:38] Like, you know, like I was like, "Oh [18:40] that sounds like Oh, that that [18:42] that's interesting." Um [18:44] and so I think that uh [18:47] that's one for him. Uh Serhant, you [18:50] know, is a fun one for me because [18:52] a lot you know, he's obviously playing [18:54] at such a big personal brand level now [18:55] and then he had that TV show on Bravo [18:57] and then he was off the air. [19:00] You know, his curiosity and humility was [19:02] amazing. Like he was always around our [19:05] ecosystem and he really learned to play [19:07] the playbook I've lived, you've lived, [19:09] he's lived. So much of you know, now [19:11] he's back on Netflix, but he had a [19:13] really great era in between his [19:14] television moments of really winning on [19:17] social and going all in and I'm really [19:19] proud of him. And Harwood is uh [19:22] is just a dear actual friend. He's [19:24] family, not even friends. And so I [19:26] He's taught me that uh I'm glad you I'm [19:28] glad you circled back cuz I was like, [19:31] "Damn, he's taking shots." [19:32] >> [laughter] [19:34] >> You know what? In you know, he's a Long [19:35] Island boy, I'm a Jersey boy. I think [19:37] anyone from our part of the world knows [19:39] like taking shots to your brothers is [19:42] like the ultimate form of I love you [19:44] more than anything. I I think literally [19:46] from [19:47] from 1985 to 2000, Yeah. 98% of the [19:51] words out of my best friend's mouths was [19:54] highly disrespectful in my direction. Of [19:57] course, that's the best. That's the only [19:59] way to do it. Uh [20:01] Ryan Holiday wrote Trust Me, I'm Lying: [20:03] Confessions of a Media Manipulator at [20:05] 25. Should more young people write [20:07] books? I talked to some brilliant young [20:09] people every day on the show. A lot of [20:11] them fantasize about writing a book, but [20:15] it always feels like it's something that [20:16] needs to come with wisdom and needs to [20:18] come with being 40, 50, 60. [20:21] >> Yeah, do you get a lot of wis- But but [20:23] part of it is like you're generating [20:24] wisdom through writing, thinking deeply. [20:26] Do you feel like [20:28] I think of it this way, man. I think it [20:30] is [20:31] it's weirdly back to my barbell. I think [20:33] people that have something to say will [20:35] probably be best at the barbell. You [20:37] know, meaning it's kind of like [20:39] someone's first album. You had your [20:40] whole life to write it. Mhm. [20:42] Right? Yeah. Yeah. And then so I don't [20:45] know, for me, speaking for myself, like [20:47] again, back to the books, like when I [20:49] look back at that [20:51] I'm like, how like and I'm really like [20:54] kind of feel good about myself and we [20:56] have me and me have a good relationship [20:57] with each other, but even I would [20:58] [laughter] like I look at it and I'm [21:00] like, how the hell did you write that in [21:02] 2008? And then and then to your point, I [21:05] think my nest next best piece of work [21:07] will be when I'm wrapping it up and I [21:09] can synthesize all the good stuff. So I [21:12] would wildly encourage, especially the [21:14] kind of characters you guys hang out [21:15] with, they have a lot to say cuz much [21:18] like I had in my youth, I saw things [21:20] others couldn't see because I wasn't [21:23] playing by yesterday's rules. I always [21:25] say fresh eyes are dangerous eyes. You [21:27] know nothing, it makes you dangerous. [21:29] You can really innovate. And then I [21:31] think those people that you know, have [21:33] sustained careers and can have years of [21:36] wisdom and chapters have a lot to say [21:39] that can really wrap up and bring value. [21:40] So [21:41] I think most people, if they're going to [21:44] be in that game, are probably going to [21:46] write their best book first and last. [21:48] Mhm. [21:49] Uh you partnered up with MasterClass. [21:53] Yeah. Tell us about it. Tell us about [21:54] it. [21:55] You know, I [21:58] 15 years ago, anything that looked like [22:00] MasterClass, like selling stuff, was [22:01] really scammy. Like I grew up in the web [22:03] 1.0 era. And like I stayed away from a [22:06] lot of subscription, Patreon, OnlyFans, [22:09] MasterClass. Like selling information [22:12] was really dirty in '97, '98. $150 ebook [22:17] that was straight garbage. Yeah. I I [22:19] want to give MasterClass some flowers. [22:20] Like when they first kind of hit the [22:22] scene around that era, we were just [22:24] getting into the earliest stage of where [22:26] we are now, where premium content, you [22:28] know, Substack, Beehiiv. Like Now it now [22:31] it's respected, which is amazing and I [22:33] think it's great for a lot of individual [22:35] writers and contributors. Um [22:38] you know, it was really good company. [22:39] Like I I like who they had for this [22:41] class. It's addressing something I [22:43] believe is real, which is like getting [22:45] an MBA in real life and AI [22:49] at a [22:50] you know, pennies versus taking on [22:51] extreme debt and getting an MBA from a [22:54] high-class university that you think [22:55] that logo is going to get you financial [22:58] opportunity in a way that I believe has [23:01] passed us by. Um you know, just feels [23:04] like I want to be part of things that [23:06] are historically correct or, you know, [23:08] are just a little more practical and [23:09] common sense. And so um yeah, I mean, [23:13] they've come to me a whole bunch of [23:15] times. This was the first time I was [23:16] like, you know what? I can join this [23:18] [clears throat] crew. I have something [23:19] to say about AI marketing and and [23:22] production and and the strategies of [23:24] that. And and I hope that, you know, me [23:27] or Cuban or any of the other people they [23:28] threw at it, like get someone to stop [23:30] and not take on $300,000 in debt that's [23:32] not going to be ROI positive. Mhm. [23:35] Yeah. Uh well said. What are you hearing [23:37] from sort of like Fortune 500 CMOs, uh [23:42] like larger company marketers around how [23:46] if anything they should change in the [23:48] world of AI around their marketing mix? [23:51] Um I'm giggling cuz we're going to wrap [23:53] up here and I'm actually going to Yeah. [23:54] take your question but try to give an [23:56] extraordinary amount of value to [23:58] everyone that I know listens to this [23:59] epic show. [24:01] It's not what they're saying. It's [24:04] how they're acting, which leads me to [24:06] the following sentence. Mhm. Everybody [24:08] who's watching is highly invested in big [24:10] companies that spend a lot of money on [24:11] marketing. [24:12] Your marketing department is wasting 93 [24:14] cents of every dollar they spend. [24:16] >> [laughter] [24:18] >> Okay. [24:19] We are living in such a radical [24:21] transformation of the mid-funnel [24:23] dominating, not the upper funnel and the [24:25] lower funnel. [24:26] >> Sure. [24:27] Us three right now, we're on mid-funnel. [24:29] Yeah. We are producing content. [24:31] >> in the mid-funnel. [24:33] >> [laughter] [24:33] >> I mean, look, I mean, this is what's [24:34] going on in my I'm giggling. [24:36] Right? This [24:38] This is a production day. Yeah. This [24:40] will be post-produced into creative that [24:42] will go in the mid-funnel, organic [24:44] social. Yep. And the pieces that do well [24:46] will go up for brand and down for [24:48] performance. Mhm. [24:50] Every brand on Earth should be spending [24:52] 20% of their entire marketing budget [24:55] just on social media organic production [24:57] because the mid-funnel TikTokification [24:59] of social has eaten up the world and we [25:01] should spend no media dollars against [25:03] creative that we're guessing for the big [25:05] campaign. Mhm. And then when I tell you [25:07] every Fortune 5000 company is still [25:09] doing guessing in the upper funnel, [25:11] sponsorships, ridiculous And then [25:13] the lower funnel, 2016 AB testing beta [25:17] frameworks when the mid-funnel ate up [25:19] the whole world. And you guys are [25:20] winning, Ruins is winning and any [25:22] personal brand and many other [25:24] businesses. [25:25] And so [25:27] that doesn't even get into the AI of it [25:29] all. That to me is tooling and [25:31] infrastructure to be great at what I [25:32] just said. [25:33] >> Yeah. [25:34] Um but Jesus, there's a lot of money [25:37] being wasted by the [25:39] companies representing the eyeballs that [25:41] are watching the show right now and that [25:43] makes me sad. Yeah. [25:45] Makes a lot of sense. I I I can't stand [25:48] wasted marketing spend. [25:51] Yeah, blood makes my blood boil. Well, [25:53] thank you so much for taking the time to [25:54] come chat with us. Congrats on the [25:56] >> We barely got to talk about live [25:58] commerce. Yeah, there's a lot We'll get [26:00] that update next time. [26:01] Yeah, we you need everybody here Anybody [26:03] selling [26:04] to the consumer needs to understand [26:07] that China's going to do a trillion in [26:09] GMV, a trillion in GMV this year in [26:12] stuff sold. [26:13] And [26:14] and [26:16] TikTok Shop and whatnot are doing real [26:18] numbers in in the US. Mhm. And Meta's [26:22] clearly going to be popping off any [26:24] second with what they're going to do, [26:25] which will lead YouTube to do what [26:26] they're going to do. [26:27] >> Sorry, I know you got to leave, but give [26:29] me your 30-second outlook on TikTok post [26:32] kind of acquisition [26:35] change in ownership. How is the platform [26:37] changing and what's your outlook? [26:40] There's I felt nothing. I haven't done [26:42] any real homework on any like corporate [26:44] structure or what is going to be the [26:45] vibe. I know, but but will the new owner [26:48] will the new owners be willing to like [26:50] subsidize TikTok Shop is kind of what [26:52] I'm getting at. [26:54] Um [26:55] they they don't need to. It actually [26:56] works on merit. Okay. [26:58] >> You only need to subsidize shitty [27:00] Mhm. [27:03] >> [laughter] [27:05] >> Uh always a good time. Thank you so much [27:07] for coming on the show. [27:08] >> We'll talk to you soon, Gary. Goodbye. [27:11] Uh later in the show, we'll be telling [27:13] you about a local man who grew a 900-lb [27:16] pumpkin in his backyard [music] [27:18] and we'll tell you what it means for AI [27:20] scaling laws. But [27:23] up next, we have [music] Humble [27:24] Robotics. The founder and CEO is in the [27:26] waiting room. Let's bring in Ayal Cohen [27:30] to the TBP and Ultra Dom. How are you [27:31] doing? [27:31] >> What's going on? [27:33] Great.