## Background
The All-In Podcast published this episode on YouTube on March 26, 2026, hosted by David Friedberg with guest Bryan Johnson. According to the page description, the episode covers Bryan Johnson's experience taking a powerful dose of 5-MeO-DMT, what brain scans reveal about the experience, risks of bad trips and life-altering decisions, and emerging longevity frontiers including organoids, gene therapy, and GLP-1s.
## TL;DR
Bryan Johnson details his experience undergoing a high-dose protocol of 5-MeO-DMT, describing a complete dissolution of the Default Mode Network that yielded profound psychological surrender and lasting childlike wonder. He and David Friedberg discuss multi-modal brain mapping data, safety structures, and the personal risks associated with intense perspective shifts among founders. The conversation expands into next-generation longevity interventions, including personalized induced pluripotent stem cell (iPSC) organoids, FOXO3 gene therapy, mitochondrial augmentation, and how metabolic health directly influences mental resilience and societal stability.
## Atmosphere & style
The conversation carries a highly cerebral, candid, and intellectually curious tone, balancing cutting-edge scientific discussion with personal introspection. David Friedberg serves as an analytical co-pilot, probing the philosophical, societal, and investor-focused implications of intense self-experimentation. Bryan Johnson presents his radical experiences with calm, quantified clarity, weaving together intense subjective experiences with empirical biohacking data. The dialogue moves fluidly between deep neurobiological theory and pragmatic human optimization, ending on a lighthearted note that highlights the contrast between traditional lifestyle choices and hyper-disciplined longevity protocols.
## Key takeaways
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=0s) Bryan Johnson underwent a high-dose 5-MeO-DMT protocol (9 mg IM + 18 mg vaporized), describing it as encountering raw consciousness and ranking it as the single most dynamic experience of his life.
- [06:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=371s) 5-MeO-DMT dissolves the Default Mode Network (DMN), eliminating the self-referential internal monologue and inducing rapid structural neuroplasticity.
- [06:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=371s) Project Blueprint evaluates psychedelics as potential anti-aging interventions due to preclinical evidence showing reduced systemic inflammation.
- [10:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=634s) Johnson experienced immediate psychological aftereffects, including a return to childlike joy, spontaneous humor, and the complete elimination of defensive posturing in relationships.
- [10:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=634s) Advanced neuroimaging modalities (fMRI, Kernel optical imaging, structural MRI, EEG) were used to map Johnson's brain before and after the 5-MeO-DMT experience.
- [10:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=634s) Johnson cautions that high-dose psychedelics carry severe risks, including triggering permanent psychosis or schizophrenia in predisposed individuals.
- [16:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=982s) 5-MeO-DMT was reported to be significantly more effective as a human reset than traditional biohacking modalities like sleep, exercise, sauna, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
- [18:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1116s) Profound psychedelic perspective shifts can cause founders to make radical life changes like quitting companies or getting divorced, prompting some VCs to insert protective clauses in deal documents.
- [22:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1339s) Psychedelics may offer vital 'psycho-flexibility' needed for humans to adapt to rapid world changes driven by artificial intelligence.
- [26:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1583s) Johnson targets mitochondrial rejuvenation, exploring strategies like encapsulating mitochondria inside red blood cells and sourcing young maternal mitochondria from family members.
- [29:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1776s) A breakthrough study using FOXO3 gene therapy via plasmids combined with mesenchymal stem cells demonstrated over 50% tissue rejuvenation in targeted living models.
- [29:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1776s) Johnson is culturing personalized heart, liver, and lung organoids from his own iPSCs to perform in vitro testing of compounds prior to human in vivo trials.
- [31:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1872s) Dosing control remains the primary safety hurdle in cellular reprogramming using Yamanaka factors to prevent oncogenesis, requiring dynamic genetic cellular switches.
- [33:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=2006s) Widespread metabolic health interventions like GLP-1s and gene therapies have the potential to enhance public mental resilience and reduce societal instability.
- [35:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=2106s) While organ therapies address physical tissue, psychedelics specifically target psychological aging by restoring mental flexibility, ambition, and childlike wonder.
David Friedberg introduces Bryan Johnson, who explains that just 48 hours earlier, he underwent a protocol involving 5-MeO-DMT, widely considered the most powerful psychedelic on Earth and estimated to be 5 to 10 times more potent than standard DMT. Still processing the event, Johnson explains that articulating the experience feels nearly impossible, describing it as encountering "raw consciousness and raw intelligence." To conceptualize the scale, he instructs listeners to take any baseline thought, multiply it by a thousand, and stretch it across infinite dimensions and depth.
Upon administration—which consisted of 9 mg intramuscularly followed by 18 mg via vaporization—the onset hit within ten seconds. Johnson emphasizes that unlike classical DMT, which produces intense visual geometry or encounters with entity-like "elves," 5-MeO-DMT is almost entirely non-visual. Instead, it hurls the mind into a foreign realm where the immediate threat is acute psychological panic—feeling as though the stream of existence is about to shard the brain into pieces. To navigate this without breaking one's sanity, a person cannot fight or wait out the trip; they must entirely surrender every attachment, precondition, desire, control, and ego. Surrendering completely unlocked an overwhelming state of unimaginable bliss and euphoria, which Johnson ranks unequivocally as the single most dynamic experience of his life, transcending personal milestones like marriage, fatherhood, or major life achievements.
- **Dose Administered:** 9 mg intramuscular (IM) + 18 mg vaporized 5-MeO-DMT.
- **Onset Speed:** Takes full effect in under 10 seconds.
- **Subjective Profile:** Virtually zero visual hallucinations; dominated by raw conscious intelligence and profound dissolution of self.
[06:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=371s) Brain Dynamics and the Longevity Rationale
Explaining the neurobiology behind the experience, Johnson notes that the compound completely dissolves the Default Mode Network (DMN)—the neural network responsible for building the ego and driving continuous internal monologue. While adults ruminate on anxieties, self-doubt, and social standing, children possess a naturally quiet DMN. Over time, aging hardens these neural pathways into deep structural "ruts," severely narrowing human perception and emotional agility.
Drawing an analogy to global air traffic, Johnson compares a baseline adult brain to heavy, fixed flight paths between major hubs like New York and London, while regional routes remain quiet. Psychedelics effectively scramble these airport locations across the globe, forcing the brain into novel, highly plastic configurations that generate new behaviors and break rigid patterns. While psychedelics are traditionally viewed as ritualistic practices or psychiatric treatments for trauma, depression, and anxiety, Johnson’s Project Blueprint identified them as potential anti-aging interventions after investigating preclinical mouse data showing reduced systemic inflammation—a primary driver of biological aging.
- **DMN Dissolution:** Temporarily eliminates the self-referential internal monologue, enabling structural neuroplasticity.
- **Prior Psilocybin Protocol:** Three clinical-grade doses of 25 mg psilocybin (near "heroic" threshold).
- **Metabolic Observations:** Post-psilocybin clinical tracking revealed a systemic metabolic reset, moving Johnson's blood glucose from the 99.5th percentile into the top 99.9th percentile, alongside significant shifts in his gut microbiome.
[10:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=634s) Behavioral Aftereffects and Multimodal Brain Mapping
In the 48 hours following the 5-MeO-DMT session, Johnson observed stark changes in his daily baseline psychology, describing a return to a childlike state of uninhibited joy. He recalled waking up from a dream laughing—something he had never remembered doing as an adult—and experiencing a renewed, spontaneous excitement for everyday life. In an interpersonal conflict with his partner, Kate, he found himself entirely stripped of the adult instinct to defensive-weaponize arguments or store up resentment, resolving the issue with effortless clarity.
To quantify these neurological shifts, Johnson’s team collected high-resolution data across several advanced imaging modalities before and after the session. Having successfully rejuvenated systemic organs like the heart, lungs, and muscular tissue through Project Blueprint, Johnson regards brain rejuvenation as the final, most complex frontier.
- **Data Capture Modalities:** Structural Brain MRI, Functional MRI (fMRI), Kernel optical neuroimaging, and continuous real-time EEG wave-pattern tracking.
- **Subjective Changes:** Enhanced humor, spontaneous quipping, complete absence of defensive emotional posturing, and childlike curiosity.
- **Safety Warning:** Johnson strongly cautions that high-dose psychedelics are exceptionally potent interventions that require strict professional supervision, precise setting, and careful psychological screening due to the real risks of triggering permanent psychosis or schizophrenia in predisposed individuals.
<ElicitationsGroup message="Explore more from this interview:">
<Elicitation label="Continue to Part 2 of the transcript" query="Please provide the detailed walkthrough for Part 2 of the transcript."/>
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Here is a detailed and faithful walkthrough of the transcript segment.
---
[16:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=982s) Psychedelic Safety Structures and the Ultimate Reset
David Friedberg and Bryan Johnson examine why so many people suffer severe negative consequences or scarred psyches from psychedelic experiences. Friedberg argues that the problem often stems from how people casually ingest recreational substances like magic mushrooms in unquantified, unsupervised social settings, using unknown strains without proper set and setting. He contends that while risk can never be entirely eliminated, building a rigorous safety structure around psychedelics could allow society to unlock their immense neuroplastic and trauma-resolution benefits while dramatically minimizing harm.
Bryan Johnson compares his experience with 5-MeO-DMT to his standard regimen of intense physical optimization—eating a clean diet, daily exercise, sound sleep, sauna sessions, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT). He asserts that 5-MeO-DMT was vastly more efficacious than all of those combined in terms of resetting him as a human being. Stunned by the gigantic impact of the molecule, Johnson questions what its long-term decay curve will look like, wondering whether he will revert back to his former self within 30 to 60 days or if he will need to repeat the protocol.
* "This was more efficacious than all of them in terms of the reset of me as a human. It just is incomparable."
* Standard biohacking modalities like sleep, exercise, sauna, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy pale in comparison to the fundamental reset delivered by a high-dose 5-MeO-DMT experience.
* Establishing formal safety frameworks for psychedelics is essential if they are ever to transition into widely accepted medical therapeutics.
---
[18:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1116s) The Personal Risks of Perspective Shifts and Founders Quitting
Friedberg brings up the non-physiological, life-altering risks of heavy psychedelics like ayahuasca or 5-MeO-DMT. He notes that many founders and corporate CEOs experience such a massive shift in perspective that they end up quitting their companies, walking away from their families, or getting divorced. In the wake of these drastic choices, employees, investors, and family members are left dealing with the fallout. Friedberg shares that one venture capitalist even started inserting explicit clauses into deal documents prohibiting founders from doing heavy psychedelics for the duration of the company to minimize founder-abandonment risk.
Johnson confirms that he has seen the exact same phenomenon play out, acknowledging that while investors do bring up these concerns, his own experience had the opposite effect. Rather than wanting to retreat into the woods, Johnson felt emboldened and even more motivated to pursue his current mission. However, Friedberg raises a deep philosophical question: if a person’s identity is defined by their neural wiring, and a substance rewires those neurons in a matter of hours, are they even the same person afterward?
* Some venture capitalists now include protective clauses in deal documentation to legally forbid founders from using heavy psychedelics.
* A profound psychedelic experience can completely alter a person's core values, creating tension around whether abandoning previous family or professional obligations is subjectively "right or wrong."
* Johnson notes that while many tech figures take unquantified trips in informal retreat settings, his structured approach reinforced his dedication to his life's work.
---
[22:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1339s) Psycho-Flexibility, AI Adaptation, and Playing on the Frontier
Johnson frames rapid neural restructuring as a potential necessity in a fast-moving world. As artificial intelligence becomes the dominant engine of innovation, human beings may struggle to adapt to reality shifting every few weeks. In this environment, psychedelics could flip from a founder liability into a vital asset that provides the "psycho-flexibility" required to keep pace with hyper-evolution.
When Friedberg asks how far Johnson would push human modification—such as installing a Neuralink interface or utilizing transgenic plasmid therapies that alter gene expression to alter one's body and personality—Johnson answers without hesitation that he would do all of them, declaring that there is no limit to what he would try. He attributes his desire to play on the biological frontier to an overcompensation for his childhood in a rigid, highly structured religious environment. Recognizing his own 188 chronic cognitive biases, Johnson explains that he does not take himself too seriously or trust his brain's internal generation of reality, preferring instead to treat life as an open experimental space.
* "I have 188 chronic biases, like all humans do... I'm generally suspicious of all things all the time, and I don't take myself very seriously."
* Johnson maintains that his extreme self-experimentation has not compromised his responsibilities as a father to his three children, as fatherhood remains a core pillar of his identity.
* His partner Kate and his close social circle actively support his risky interventions, offering encouragement rather than acting as "Velcro" trying to pull him back.
---
[26:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1583s) Next-Gen Therapies: Mitochondrial Rejuvenation and Family Blood Donors
Shifting the conversation to upcoming longevity modalities, Johnson and Friedberg discuss cell and gene therapies as the next frontier beyond today's available interventions. Johnson highlights mitochondrial augmentation therapy and cites a recent study where scientists successfully delivered mitochondria into host cells by encapsulating them inside a red blood cell envelope to evade immune rejection.
Because mitochondrial DNA degrades over time, Friedberg proposes an intriguing strategy for Johnson: obtaining young, biologically matched mitochondria from a family relative. Since mitochondria are inherited exclusively through the maternal line inside the egg cell, Johnson could collect a blood sample from his sister's child, isolate and expand those young mitochondria in a bioreactor, and infuse them into his own body. Johnson jokes that having already used his son as a "blood boy," expanding this to a full family project is a natural next step. He notes that his current mitochondrial therapy protocol is moving into a Phase 2 trial setup, and Friedberg suggests testing its real-world efficacy by measuring improvements in intramuscular sprinting performance rather than relying solely on systemic blood biomarkers.
* Johnson currently has the mitochondrial profile equivalent to a 48-year-old.
* Encapsulating mitochondria within red blood cell membranes significantly enhances cellular uptake while hiding the structures from immune system destruction.
* Sprinting is highlighted by Friedberg as one of the single most underappreciated physical longevity therapies available.
---
[29:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1776s) Plasmids, FOXO3 Gene Expression, and Personal Organoids
The discussion turns to gene therapy utilizing plasmids to drive target protein expression. Friedberg and Johnson highlight a breakthrough Chinese study combining mesenchymal stem cells with FOXO3 gene delivery, which demonstrated cellular and tissue rejuvenation across more than 50% of targeted tissues in living models. Johnson reveals that he directly reached out to the lead Chinese professor behind the study to explore ways to replicate the research, expressing a strong desire to build a similar plasmid platform himself.
Johnson also unveils his latest cutting-edge initiative: creating mini "Bryan Johnson organoids" in the laboratory. By taking his own blood and skin cells and applying Yamanaka factors, his team converted them into induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs). They are now culturing dish-grown organoid models of Johnson's specific heart, liver, and lung tissues. This enables them to test complex molecular compounds, drugs, and longevity therapies directly on his living tissue models *in vitro* before ever administering them to his body.
* The FOXO3 plasmid stem-cell combination demonstrated tissue rejuvenation across over 50% of target tissues, making it one of the most promising tissue regeneration demonstrations in the world.
* Johnson is actively using Yamanaka factors to convert his somatic cells into iPSCs to grow custom bio-identical heart, liver, and lung organoids.
* Testing therapeutics on personal organoids allows for precise screening of efficacy and toxicity prior to human *in vivo* trials.
---
<ElicitationsGroup message="Where would you like to explore next?">
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<Elicitation label="Detail FOXO3 plasmid gene therapy" query="Explain how FOXO3 gene expression and mesenchymal stem cell delivery work for tissue rejuvenation."/>
<Elicitation label="Break down iPSC organoid testing" query="How are induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs) used to grow mini organoids for personalized drug screening?"/>
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[31:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1872s) Personal Organoids and Computational Discovery with Yamanaka Factors
David Friedberg and Bryan Johnson detail how personal induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs) can be differentiated into specific tissue types—such as heart cells or eye cells—to create personalized organoid arrays. By applying candidate compounds directly to an individual's organoids in a dish, researchers can run accelerated high-throughput experiments, simulating drug efficacy, side effects, and complex combinatorial treatments without risking patient safety. While Bryan notes that his team has successfully stood up his personal organoid arrays, they have not yet run their first trial, leaving him stuck using "old-school methodology"—testing compounds directly on his own body and waiting to see the systemic results.
The conversation pivots to advancements in cellular reprogramming and Yamanaka factors. Bryan highlights his investment in NewLimit, a company co-founded by Blake Byers and Brian Armstrong, noting they have computationally solved the factor discovery process to dramatically accelerate development timelines. Friedberg cautions that the primary barrier in Yamanaka factor therapy is precise dosing; over-dosing a single cell can transform it into an uncontrolled tumor. Friedberg proposes that the solution will ultimately rely on synthetic cellular switches—internal genetic machinery that measures cell-level gene expression and dynamically turns protein synthesis on or off. Both agree that secondary feedback loops are inadequate, positioning cellular reprogramming alongside AI as the most transformative technology humanity is currently developing.
* Organoid testing enables patient-specific drug screening, accelerating safety evaluations and optimal dosage discovery.
* Bryan Johnson holds an investment in NewLimit, which utilizes computational discovery to advance partial cellular reprogramming.
* Dosing sensitivity in Yamanaka factors presents a critical oncogenic risk if expression is not precisely controlled.
* Dynamic feedback mechanisms like genetic cellular switches are hypothesized as the necessary solution to monitor real-time gene expression.
---
[33:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=2006s) Societal Abundance, Public Health, and Mental Disposition
The discussion expands to the broader societal implications of emerging health and longevity interventions. Bryan suggests that GLP-1 receptor agonists represent the first major breakthrough wave by directly eliminating hunger cues, with plasma-based FOXO3 therapies and gene therapies following close behind. As these modalities demonstrate tangible, life-extending results, public perception will shift from viewing longevity as a luxury pursuit for the wealthy into an accessible health standard. Friedberg links physical health directly to social stability, arguing that societal friction often stems from internal unhappiness and widespread physical malaise.
They highlight the severe baseline of metabolic ill-health across the population, emphasizing how chronic disease and poor lifestyle habits erode mental resilience. Bryan notes that optimizing physical health fundamentally alters a person's psychological disposition, instilling a proactive, "can-do" mindset. When individuals experience physical vitality and personal control, societal harmony improves, blunting the pull toward political extremism and systemic discontent.
* GLP-1s are recognized as the pioneer wave in widespread metabolic optimization, paving the way for advanced gene therapies.
* Metabolic disorders affect approximately 84% of the population, with over 40% experiencing obesity.
* Physical wellness directly influences psychological outlook, replacing societal malaise with agency and resilience.
* Broad availability of health and energy abundance acts as a stabilizing force against social and political unrest.
---
[35:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=2106s) Psychedelics for Brain Rejuvenation and Childlike Wonder
Addressing how psychedelics fit into an advanced health stack alongside molecular therapies, Friedberg asks why Bryan continues to explore compounds like 5-MeO-DMT and psilocybin. Bryan points out that while systemic therapies can regenerate muscle or skin, neuro-regeneration remains poorly understood, carrying the risk of rewiring neural networks unpredictably. He argues that while standard longevity therapies target physical tissue, psychedelics serve as a specialized tool for restoring mental flexibility and youthful psychological vigor.
Bryan expresses concern about the psychological aging process, observing that as people transition into their 50s and 60s, their ambition and sense of possibility often narrow. For him, intense psychedelic experiences provide a powerful "snapback," resetting the mind to a childlike state of wonder and openness. He notes that while habits like proper sleep, clean nutrition, and sauna usage support baseline health, only psychedelics have delivered what felt like 30 to 40 years of psychological rejuvenation. The segment closes with lighthearted banter as Friedberg jokes about going out to eat carbs and drink alcohol, while Bryan reaffirms his commitment to his strict sleep schedule and bedtime routine.
* Psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT and psilocybin target mental disposition and cognitive agility rather than basic organ function.
* Psychological aging is characterized by a narrowing of ambition and a decline in openness to new experiences.
* High-dose psychedelic sessions are described as delivering decades' worth of psychological rejuvenation, restoring childlike curiosity.
* The episode concludes with a contrasting summary of personal routines: Friedberg's relaxed lifestyle choices versus Bryan's disciplined biohacking protocols.
## Notable quotes
> [16:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=982s) This was more efficacious than all of them in terms of the reset of me as a human. It just is incomparable. — Bryan Johnson
> [22:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axpnkqd-Agk&t=1339s) I have 188 chronic biases, like all humans do... I'm generally suspicious of all things all the time, and I don't take myself very seriously. — Bryan Johnson
Bryan Johnson 使用 5-MeO-DMT 与质粒进行大脑年轻化
大剂量迷幻剂方案带来了传统生物黑客干预手段无法实现的心理神经可塑性与系统性重置。
Bryan Johnson 详细讲述了他接受大剂量 5-MeO-DMT 方案的经历，描述了默认模式网络的彻底瓦解如何带来深刻的心理臣服以及持久的孩童般惊奇感。他与 David Friedberg 探讨了多模态脑图谱数据、安全架构，以及创始人经历剧烈视角转变所伴随的个人风险。对话还延伸至下一代长寿干预措施，包括个性化诱导多能干细胞（iPSC）类器官、FOXO3 基因疗法、线粒体增强，以及代谢健康如何直接影响心理韧性与社会稳定性。
Bryan Johnson 分享了他接受高剂量 5-MeO-DMT（9 mg 肌肉注射结合 18 mg 雾化吸入）的经历，将其描述为直面纯粹意识，并评价这是他人生中最具动态感、最震撼的体验。 (0:00)
5-MeO-DMT 能暂时瓦解大脑的默认模式网络（DMN），消除自我对话并激活快速的神经可塑性；Blueprint 计划基于临床前小鼠降低全身炎症的数据，将其视为潜在的抗衰老干预手段。 (6:11)
体验后 Johnson 心理状态重回孩童般的喜悦，且防御性心理完全消除；他认为在重塑人类状态方面，5-MeO-DMT 的效果远超睡眠、饮食、桑拿及高压氧舱等传统生物黑客手段的总和。 (10:34)
强烈的迷幻体验可能导致认知发生剧烈转变，甚至引发创始人辞职或离婚，促使部分风投在投资协议中加入禁止创始人使用重度迷幻药的保护条款；Johnson 同时警告高剂量迷幻药存在诱发精神疾病的严重风险。 (18:36)
除迷幻药与大脑重塑外，Johnson 与 Friedberg 还深入探讨了红细胞包裹线粒体增强疗法、结合 FOXO3 基因表达的质粒疗法，以及利用 iPSC 技术培育个人定制化类器官以进行体外药物毒性与疗效筛查的前沿长寿技术。 (29:36)
Reading summary
On the All-In Podcast, Bryan Johnson argues that while emerging cellular and genetic therapies are essential for rejuvenating physical tissue, supervised high-dose psychedelics offer an unmatched neurological reset to reverse psychological aging. Alongside host David Friedberg, Johnson examines how experimental mind and body interventions could reshape human longevity, executive adaptability, and public health.
Psychedelics as a Neurological Anti-Aging Reset (0:00)
Forty-eight hours before the interview, Johnson underwent a protocol combining 9 mg of intramuscular and 18 mg of vaporized 5-MeO-DMT, a compound estimated to be 5 to 10 times more potent than standard DMT. Taking effect in under 10 seconds, the non-visual experience required complete surrender of ego to avoid acute panic, resulting in what Johnson ranks as the single most dynamic, blissful experience of his life. He claims the session delivered what felt like 30 to 40 years of psychological rejuvenation—restoring childlike humor and eliminating defensive interpersonal habits—and was more effective at resetting him than his entire regimen of sleep, diet, exercise, sauna, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy combined.
Johnson explains that psychedelics temporarily dissolve the Default Mode Network (DMN), which drives the ego's internal monologue and hardens into rigid neural pathways as adults age. Project Blueprint initially identified psychedelics as potential anti-aging tools after reviewing preclinical mouse data showing reduced systemic inflammation. Previously, three clinical-grade doses of 25 mg psilocybin coincided with shifts in Johnson's gut microbiome and an improvement in his blood glucose from the 99.5th to the 99.9th percentile. To quantify his 5-MeO-DMT session, his team captured before-and-after structural MRI, fMRI, Kernel optical neuroimaging, and continuous real-time EEG data.
Safety Frameworks, Founder Risks, and Cognitive Flexibility (16:22)
Both speakers caution that high-dose psychedelics carry severe risks, including triggering permanent psychosis or schizophrenia in predisposed individuals. Friedberg attributes many psychological injuries to unquantified, unsupervised recreational use, arguing that formal safety structures are required to unlock therapeutic benefits while minimizing harm. Beyond medical risks, Friedberg notes that heavy psychedelics like ayahuasca or 5-MeO-DMT have caused so many executives to abruptly abandon their companies or families that at least one venture capitalist now inserts clauses into deal documents prohibiting founders from using them.
While Friedberg questions whether rapid neural rewiring fundamentally alters a person's identity, Johnson reports that his structured session actually reinforced his commitment to his mission and his responsibilities as a father. Looking ahead, Johnson suggests that as artificial intelligence accelerates societal change, psychedelics could flip from a founder liability into a vital asset by providing the "psycho-flexibility" required to adapt to rapidly shifting realities.
Mitochondrial Augmentation, Gene Therapy, and Personal Organoids (26:23)
Beyond neurology, Johnson and Friedberg explore next-generation cellular and genetic interventions. To improve his mitochondrial profile—currently equivalent to a 48-year-old's—Johnson is moving his mitochondrial therapy protocol into a Phase 2 trial setup. He cites recent research encapsulating mitochondria within red blood cell envelopes to evade immune rejection, while Friedberg proposes harvesting and expanding young, maternal-line mitochondria from a sister's child and testing efficacy via sprinting performance. Johnson also contacted the lead professor behind a Chinese study that combined mesenchymal stem cells with FOXO3 plasmid gene delivery to rejuvenate over 50% of targeted tissues in living models.
To screen candidate compounds safely before human trials, Johnson's team applied Yamanaka factors to convert his blood and skin cells into induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs), culturing personalized heart, liver, and lung organoid arrays. Johnson also invested in NewLimit, which uses computation to accelerate cellular reprogramming discovery. However, Friedberg warns that overdosing Yamanaka factors can turn cells into uncontrolled tumors, proposing that synthetic genetic switches will be needed to monitor and regulate cell-level gene expression in real time.
Metabolic Optimization and Broader Societal Stability (33:26)
The speakers contend that advancing from GLP-1 receptor agonists to plasmid and gene therapies will shift longevity from a luxury pursuit into an accessible health standard. With metabolic disorders affecting roughly 84% of the population and obesity exceeding 40%, Friedberg argues that widespread physical malaise drives internal unhappiness and social friction. Johnson agrees that optimizing physical health instills a proactive mindset, predicting that broad health and energy abundance will strengthen mental resilience and reduce the pull toward political extremism.
Despite these rapid experimental advances, critical limitations remain unresolved. Johnson acknowledges he does not yet know the long-term decay curve of his 5-MeO-DMT experience or whether its psychological benefits will fade within 30 to 60 days. Meanwhile, his personal organoid arrays have not yet run their first screening trial—leaving him temporarily reliant on direct self-experimentation—and cellular reprogramming still requires internal genetic feedback switches to eliminate oncogenic dosing risks.
[16:22] Bryan Johnson: This was more efficacious than all of them in terms of the reset of me as a human. It just is incomparable.
[22:19] Bryan Johnson: I have 188 chronic biases, like all humans do... I'm generally suspicious of all things all the time, and I don't take myself very seriously.
Original transcript
[0:00] Brian Johnson, thanks for being here.
[0:01] Yeah, it's good to see you. How are you
[0:02] feeling? Maybe just share with us what
[0:04] you did a few days ago and
[0:05] >> Yeah, I did
[0:07] a I did 5-MeO-DMT,
[0:09] which is the most powerful psychedelic
[0:12] on the planet.
[0:13] Somewhere between 5 and 10 times more
[0:15] powerful than DMT.
[0:17] And so, yeah, I it's so it's been 48
[0:20] hours. I'm still learning how to talk
[0:23] about it.
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[0:54] Before we get into your experience, why
[0:56] did you choose to do it? Two things.
[0:58] One, mostly as a longevity experiment.
[1:00] So, when we when I started this project
[1:02] 5 years ago, the the approach we had was
[1:05] go through all of the scientific
[1:07] evidence ever published on health and
[1:08] longevity. Try to find the interventions
[1:11] that have the best evidence.
[1:13] And for effect size and we just went
[1:15] down the list from top performing on
[1:17] down. So, of course you start with
[1:19] exercise, nutrition, you know,
[1:22] sleep. And you work your way down to
[1:23] things like hyperbaric oxygen therapy
[1:25] and sauna and then rapamycin metformin.
[1:29] And so, we never actually had on our
[1:30] radar psychedelics. They were always
[1:33] either an ancient medicine you know,
[1:35] being used in in ritualistic practices
[1:37] or being pointed at things like
[1:39] depression and anxiety and in certain
[1:41] trials. But it was never understood as a
[1:44] rejuvenation protocol, something that
[1:45] was for anti-aging. And so, we found a
[1:47] preclinical evidence in mice on
[1:48] psilocybin. We thought, that's
[1:50] interesting. And so, we did the world's
[1:52] most studied the most quantified
[1:54] experiment doing psilocybin. Three doses
[1:56] at 25 mg
[1:59] of psilocybin. Which is a pretty high
[2:00] doses. It's yeah, it's a clinical dose,
[2:02] a very very close to a hero dose. And we
[2:04] found that we think it's a
[2:06] a longevity therapy. Let's get to that
[2:08] data in a minute. But then you decided
[2:10] to try 5-MeO
[2:12] this weekend. Yes.
[2:14] Walk me through the experience cuz you
[2:16] televised the whole thing. It was live
[2:18] streamed. You looked amazingly calm
[2:22] going into it and going through the
[2:23] process. Walk us through your
[2:25] experience.
[2:26] Yeah, I think those who have done 5-MeO
[2:30] would probably relate with me that it
[2:32] feels like an impossible task to explain
[2:36] what it's like. So, that caveat said,
[2:38] I'll I'll give it a go.
[2:40] I'm
[2:41] stunned.
[2:43] Absolutely floored, speechless. You you
[2:46] basically
[2:48] experience raw consciousness and raw
[2:52] intelligence. It's this So, whatever
[2:54] when I say these words,
[2:57] take these words that I convey to you,
[2:59] take that idea, multiply it by a
[3:01] thousand, and then move out infinite
[3:03] depth, infinite width width and then
[3:06] dimensions. And like that gives you kind
[3:08] of like a rough map of like the size and
[3:13] space that you deal with. And it was
[3:15] incredibly hard cuz you you get blasted
[3:19] into this space that is so foreign. You
[3:21] don't even know what's happening.
[3:22] >> It happens very quickly. Like you you
[3:24] inhale it. I did 9 mg of intramuscular
[3:26] and then 7 18 of
[3:29] vaporized. And it takes you within 10
[3:31] seconds. You're just out you're out. And
[3:33] so,
[3:35] but what happens is you you get in that
[3:36] space
[3:37] and then
[3:38] Visual changes everything?
[3:40] >> Very very little visual.
[3:42] Like you see that on DMT it's a very
[3:44] visual. You'll meet the you know, like
[3:46] the elves or whatever else. This is not
[3:49] a visual experience.
[3:50] But you you get in this world and
[3:53] you lock in to basically you either
[3:56] panic because you feel like the gates of
[3:59] hell are going to open. That the
[4:01] the stream of existence is going to just
[4:05] tear you to shreds. It's going to shard
[4:07] you. And if you give up
[4:10] >> Like break your brain. Yeah, it's if you
[4:12] feel like it's going to like threaten
[4:13] your sanity. Like is it going to chop
[4:15] you up into little pieces? And so, in
[4:17] that moment you have to say, do I try to
[4:19] wrestle this and I I need to just like
[4:21] wait it out until it's over or you just
[4:24] relent and you say yes.
[4:26] And you have to in that moment you have
[4:28] to say yes so thoroughly. You have to
[4:32] release all attachment, all
[4:35] preconditions, all want, all desire. You
[4:38] have to release self, ego, control. You
[4:41] just have to just relent entirely.
[4:44] And then when you do that,
[4:46] it opened up this unimaginable
[4:50] bliss and euphoria. And like I again,
[4:54] this is like a V1 of trying to explain
[4:56] this. But if I list out the the most
[5:01] dynamic experiences I've had as a human,
[5:04] you know, uh like certain
[5:06] accomplishments or getting married or
[5:08] having a child or overcoming a
[5:10] difficulty or you know, state your list
[5:12] things.
[5:13] This is without question the most
[5:16] dynamic experience I've ever experienced
[5:18] as a human. Does the internal chatter,
[5:22] the internal monologue of the ego turn
[5:23] off? Does. So, you can't hear yourself
[5:26] speaking. How do you rationalize what's
[5:28] going on if you don't have a dialogue
[5:30] going on? It's this visceral feeling.
[5:32] Like you're you're hyper aware of what's
[5:35] happening. It's not like you you block
[5:37] out in the first like when you take a
[5:38] very high dose, you don't really know
[5:40] what's happening the first few minutes,
[5:42] but then you kind of come to and you're
[5:44] hyper aware of everything. It's not
[5:45] visual, but it's this um
[5:50] you're in the depths of existence.
[5:53] [snorts]
[5:53] Like this
[5:59] It's just the most majestic
[6:03] experience
[6:05] achievable by a human by by intelligent
[6:07] life. I just can't imagine anything more
[6:09] miraculous.
[6:11] You've studied the biology, the
[6:12] biochemistry. What goes on in the brain
[6:15] as this
[6:16] molecule hits your neurons?
[6:18] >> Yeah, I mean like
[6:20] it
[6:21] I mean one, it completely dissolves your
[6:24] default mode network.
[6:25] >> Describe what that is. So, like um
[6:28] it's this is the engine that constructs
[6:30] self and ego. And so, as you ruminate,
[6:33] you know, like you're going through
[6:35] Thinking through your day. What's next?
[6:37] How am I feeling? What should I be doing
[6:39] right now? Yeah, it's like constant
[6:40] conversation.
[6:41] >> I feel bad about myself? Do I feel, you
[6:43] know, like I am I shy? Am I like do I
[6:46] feel bad about whatever? Like you're
[6:47] doing this rumination stuff. Kids don't
[6:49] have this rumination loop. Their their
[6:51] default mode network is is quiet. And as
[6:53] you age, you basically build up this
[6:56] default mode network into more stiffer
[6:57] patterns. And so, as you age, your
[6:59] experience of reality becomes
[7:00] increasingly narrow. You have these big
[7:02] ruts that form. And so, you can just see
[7:05] people in their patterns like how open a
[7:06] child is to say like very random things
[7:08] that as adults you're just very you're
[7:10] shut in. Like when I did psilocybin,
[7:13] one of the reasons why we did it is
[7:14] because it does have this effect where
[7:17] it dampens the default mode network. And
[7:18] then we could pick this up with Kernel,
[7:20] the brain interface. You can see how the
[7:22] default mode network weakens. Like so
[7:24] basically I think of the brain like a
[7:26] globe with airports scattered about. And
[7:28] you have certain traffic patterns like
[7:30] New York to London. You have a certain
[7:31] number of flights every day. That's like
[7:33] a very strong connection. But New York
[7:35] to you know, some small town in in
[7:38] Arkansas has a very low traffic map. And
[7:41] so, when you do something like
[7:43] psilocybin, it basically takes the
[7:45] airports, picks them up and then
[7:47] repositions them in the world. So,
[7:48] they're just all scrambled. So, that the
[7:50] traffic patterns aren't the same. And
[7:52] then over time
[7:53] >> don't physically move, but the activity
[7:56] shifts around.
[7:57] >> Exactly.
[7:57] >> Right. The neurons are a little bit more
[7:59] random than they normally would be,
[8:01] which arguably drives neuroplasticity,
[8:04] causes those neurons to reach out for
[8:06] new connections. And when new
[8:08] connections are made, new behaviors, new
[8:10] ways of thinking emerge.
[8:11] >> Exactly
[8:12] >> Coming out of these therapeutics. Is
[8:13] that a fair way to describe it?
[8:14] >> Exactly right. So, you look at my brain
[8:15] on psilocybin from Kernel, you see my
[8:17] patterns before like the New York to
[8:19] London connection. You see my brain
[8:20] afterwards and it's exactly what you
[8:22] said. New patterns are emergent. The old
[8:24] ones have have have quieted down. It's
[8:26] like a new map of connectivity.
[8:29] And so, we saw that happen and that does
[8:31] generate a lot of neuroplasticity.
[8:33] >> And obviously this neuroplasticity
[8:34] rewiring these connections in the brain
[8:37] is what allows trauma victims or folks
[8:41] that have a certain wiring that they
[8:42] keep repeating in their brain which
[8:44] causes the trauma and the anxiety in
[8:45] their lives
[8:46] to get rewired and then that trauma and
[8:48] that anxiety feels like it dissolves or
[8:50] melts away. Is that a fair way to
[8:51] describe it?
[8:52] >> Yeah. And so, this is this has been
[8:54] documented in psilocybin. It's kind of
[8:56] well understood. How did you connect
[8:58] that psilocybin data to an effort in
[9:02] longevity or was this just like a random
[9:04] idea, let's try it out?
[9:05] >> Yeah, well so we we we saw some mouse
[9:07] data that it had these effects. It also
[9:10] showed reduced inflammation. So, we said
[9:13] like this is interesting cuz most
[9:15] longevity therapies do something with
[9:17] inflammation, right? Like inflammation
[9:19] is the killer. So, if you can lower
[9:20] inflammation, it's a very good sign.
[9:22] If you can do something that makes the
[9:24] brain more youthful and takes down those
[9:26] those big ruts, that's also useful. What
[9:29] we found in psilocybin though is that it
[9:30] had we found a first in human
[9:32] observation. It had this this metabolic
[9:36] reset in the brain where my blood
[9:37] glucose before this was in the top 99.5%
[9:41] of all the population. Okay. After, it
[9:44] went to the top 99.9%.
[9:47] Like to move my blood glucose from that
[9:48] level is very very hard. And but it
[9:50] basically like not like metformin where
[9:52] you're doing something on blood glucose.
[9:54] This just had a reset across the body.
[9:55] Also changed my microbiome.
[9:57] So, we saw full-on effects. So, then we
[9:59] said, "Okay, if that had that
[10:00] consequence, 5-MeO may have some similar
[10:04] characteristics." And so,
[10:05] >> one had done this in 5-MeO before.
[10:06] Exactly. So, there's like there's
[10:08] potential There's actually some animal
[10:09] evidence.
[10:11] But, it's the these the similar dynamics
[10:13] of like can you take the brain
[10:15] and can you basically like smooth out
[10:17] the barnacles that accumulate?
[10:19] And 5-MeO-DMT
[10:21] compared to psilocybin like just
[10:23] absolutely like blasted clean my default
[10:27] mode network. It felt like psilocybin
[10:29] dampens it. It like it softens it, but
[10:31] this thing just annihilated my default
[10:34] mode
[10:34] >> Turned it off completely. Yeah. It just
[10:36] It just doesn't run the same way. Like
[10:38] for an example like uh this morning I
[10:40] woke up
[10:42] uh catching myself laughing in a dream.
[10:46] I have not laughed in a dream. I don't I
[10:47] don't even know when I've ever laughed
[10:49] in a dream. But, that is I after I woke
[10:51] up I was like, "That's really weird."
[10:52] Like I don't remember laughing. I looked
[10:53] it up and like that is a characteristic
[10:55] of a thing of a child.
[10:55] >> Right. And so, you are restored to this
[10:58] childlike state. And I mean
[11:00] the past couple days uh I have felt
[11:03] childlike. You know,
[11:05] yesterday morning I felt that you know,
[11:07] that emergent excitement, the bubbling
[11:09] of like today is so exciting. I'm going
[11:11] to do new things. I'm going to have new
[11:13] experiences
[11:15] um that you're just excited about all
[11:16] things. I haven't felt that I don't even
[11:19] know when you know, for so many years.
[11:20] So, like it really was um profound on
[11:23] every layer. And I feel like I'm
[11:25] stumbling through it cuz I don't even
[11:26] know how to talk about it. During the
[11:27] day, you're hanging out, you're walking
[11:30] around, is your brain having the same
[11:32] normal chatter that it did before or do
[11:35] you think that there's a persistent
[11:36] change in that default mode network?
[11:38] Yeah, definitely change. Like with I was
[11:40] I was with my partner Kate yesterday and
[11:42] we um
[11:44] I did something that
[11:47] made her upset.
[11:49] And so, like in that situation, you
[11:51] know, like when when couples are in that
[11:52] moment, you have like this negotiation.
[11:55] How do I sort this?
[11:57] And
[11:58] it all just became so clear to me like
[12:00] when children have a fight,
[12:02] you have it out and then it's just like
[12:03] done. Yeah. And you move on. But, then
[12:06] adults take that and they like package
[12:08] it up and like then they weaponize it
[12:09] and be like, "I got something on you."
[12:10] And I'm like move it. I'm going to move
[12:12] the chess pieces and like try to
[12:13] leverage this and and um Or they store
[12:14] it up like a snake in one of those
[12:16] things that pops out all the things
[12:17] later, you know?
[12:18] >> [laughter]
[12:18] >> It's like
[12:19] package it all up. Exactly.
[12:20] And so, like we had this and I I just
[12:22] felt um
[12:23] absolutely like no need to
[12:28] escalate or to defend or to like it was
[12:31] just easy.
[12:32] >> Easy. And um it was a breakthrough in
[12:34] our relationship
[12:35] where I was able to communicate with her
[12:37] in a way. And so, it's like laughing in
[12:39] my sleep. It's how I deal with my
[12:40] partner. When I walk around, I just feel
[12:43] so much I
[12:44] uh I feel so much more funny. You know,
[12:47] like my ability to make quips that are
[12:49] just immediate. Uh you know, like
[12:52] So, yeah. I just feel renewed as a
[12:54] person in a way that I just really
[12:55] didn't imagine. Have you tried
[12:58] hallucinogenics before you started your
[13:00] longevity path a couple of years ago?
[13:03] >> Yeah.
[13:04] And did you do that recreationally or
[13:06] therapeutically? It was mostly
[13:08] therapeutic in that I I'd sold my
[13:10] company Nootrobox. I got a divorce. I
[13:12] left the Mormon church. And I was trying
[13:14] to remap like what is life, who am I,
[13:17] what do I do? So, I was in that
[13:19] rebuilding stage where I just dabbled of
[13:21] like you know, I did I did ketamine at
[13:23] Kernel. So, one one of our first studies
[13:24] at Kernel is we said ketamine was a
[13:27] up-and-coming therapy for depression.
[13:29] And we posed the question, "What happens
[13:31] when you do ketamine?" And so, we did
[13:33] the world's most extensive measurement
[13:34] of ketamine with Kernel before, during,
[13:37] and after. And so, that was interesting
[13:39] like and it had some kind of you know,
[13:40] transient effect, but that's like a
[13:43] a like a little league relative to
[13:47] 5-MeO. And so, as you've gone through
[13:48] this, maybe share a little bit of the
[13:50] MRI data that you're gathering and the
[13:51] other data mapping neurological effects.
[13:54] Yeah. And tell us a little bit about
[13:56] what you've learned. So far, nothing. Uh
[13:59] I have my subjective experience to
[14:00] share, but we we have a structural brain
[14:02] MRI. We have a functional brain MRI. We
[14:05] did Kernel, which is like an optical
[14:07] interface. And then I did real-time EEG
[14:09] capture. And we should just talk about I
[14:11] think it's important structural. You can
[14:13] see the the physical brain.
[14:16] Functional, you can see the activity in
[14:18] the brain. So, neurons firing and
[14:21] neurons that are not firing, Yes. Yeah.
[14:23] And then electrical actions that are
[14:25] measured by a electrical device.
[14:27] >> Yes. So, we basically like wanted cuz
[14:29] the brain is very So, we've had a lot of
[14:31] success rejuvenating my heart and my
[14:33] lungs and muscle and body fat. But,
[14:36] rejuvenating the brain is very hard.
[14:38] >> Right. And so, we This is why this is so
[14:41] such a promising therapy. So, we wanted
[14:42] to look at the brain through every
[14:44] modality possible. We wanted to look at
[14:46] blood flow, structural, molecular, you
[14:48] know, the wave pattern form. So, it's a
[14:51] it's a very high fidelity
[14:53] quantification. And so, we'll see what
[14:54] the data comes out. Um I'm very excited.
[14:56] Yeah.
[14:57] >> this on psilocybin as well, right? You
[14:58] mapped the brain over time. What did you
[15:00] learn there?
[15:01] Dramatic
[15:03] uh restoration of youthful brain
[15:05] patterns. Yeah, right. Yeah.
[15:07] And
[15:09] what comes after 5-MeO?
[15:11] >> [laughter]
[15:12] >> You know, I I mean, how far do you take
[15:13] this?
[15:14] >> Yeah.
[15:15] Honestly, um
[15:18] I am so encouraged
[15:21] by psychedelics. I you know,
[15:24] like in in in the community where I hang
[15:26] out, psychedelics have always been
[15:27] understood as you know, it's like a
[15:29] retreat or it's like a a ritual you go
[15:32] to like
[15:33] do various explorations. But, never in
[15:36] the world of longevity. It's never been
[15:37] understood as that thing. And now after
[15:39] seeing the data,
[15:41] now I um
[15:44] And of course, you have to be very
[15:45] careful when talking about psychedelics
[15:47] because they're extremely powerful. It's
[15:48] not like go out and do them everybody,
[15:50] right? It's like it needs to be done
[15:51] properly with a licensed professional.
[15:54] It needs to be done carefully. The
[15:55] person needs to be in the right state.
[15:56] Like it is not to be taken lightly. But,
[15:58] I am uh more interested than ever in
[16:02] psychedelic compounds. I mean, they're
[16:03] just uniquely powerful. There is some
[16:05] arguments to be made that psychedelics
[16:08] can induce permanent psychoses,
[16:10] >> Yeah.
[16:11] cause functional changes and drive some
[16:14] people that might be predisposed into
[16:16] schizophrenic states.
[16:17] >> That's right. How did you get over those
[16:19] risks? Because for a lot of people, that
[16:22] would turn them off to trying
[16:23] psychedelics.
[16:24] >> Yes. And it's not a non-zero percentage
[16:26] of people that suffer these
[16:27] consequences.
[16:28] >> Yeah. I agree. And and also people who
[16:30] have really bad trips that leave them
[16:31] scarred. So, it's it really is. And I
[16:34] think in in part of it is um
[16:36] what could be contributing to this is
[16:39] uh people who for example who have tried
[16:41] uh magic mushrooms,
[16:43] you know, it's in a social situation.
[16:45] Someone's got a bag.
[16:46] You pull out the mushrooms. It's like,
[16:47] "Yeah, like weighs blank." And they pop
[16:49] it in. But, they have no idea what kind
[16:51] of mushroom strain they're eating. They
[16:52] don't know what the dose of psilocybin
[16:54] is.
[16:54] Uh so, it's like unquantified,
[16:57] unsupervised, wrong set and setting. And
[16:59] so, much of it I think you can The the
[17:01] risk persists, but I don't think we
[17:03] we've approached psychedelics with the
[17:04] appropriate rigor that we should to make
[17:07] it safe. And so, it's not to say that we
[17:09] can solve for the safety issues for all
[17:10] people. Some people just may not be the
[17:11] appropriate candidate for it. But, I
[17:14] think if we do create a safety structure
[17:16] around it, they could deliver the
[17:18] benefits people want uh without you
[17:21] know, with less of the risk. But,
[17:22] definitely I agree with you like it's
[17:24] again it it deserves all the caution in
[17:26] the world. You can get like neurogenic,
[17:29] neuroplasticity,
[17:31] trauma resolution. I mean, what is the
[17:33] way that this is going to be allowed to
[17:34] become call it a medical therapeutic
[17:38] that can be more broadly trialed and
[17:40] then eventually figure out how to bring
[17:42] it to people without it being carrying
[17:44] all the risks and burdens that it does
[17:46] today?
[17:46] >> I mean, if I just subjectively compare
[17:49] my experience with 5-MeO to
[17:52] having a better diet and exercising
[17:54] every day and uh sleeping well and doing
[17:57] the sauna and doing hyperbaric oxygen
[17:58] therapy,
[18:00] this was more efficacious than all of
[18:04] them
[18:05] in terms of the reset of me as a human.
[18:07] It it just is incomparable. And I guess
[18:10] I'm I'm really left pondering. I mean,
[18:13] like for this molecule to have such a
[18:15] gigantic impact. Now, like how long will
[18:17] it last? What's the decay curve like?
[18:19] You know, will I find I I become the
[18:22] former Brian within 30 days, 60 days? Do
[18:24] I have to repeat the cycle? And I don't
[18:25] know. But, it really is you know, you
[18:27] When you sleep well, you feel great. You
[18:29] exercise, great. But, like nothing like
[18:31] what 5-MeO did in terms of of like the
[18:33] reset of me as a human. So, let's just
[18:36] talk about the consequences outside of
[18:38] the physiological,
[18:39] which is life. Yeah. There lots of
[18:42] stories and friends that I have that and
[18:45] people that I know
[18:46] that have tried a heavy psychedelic like
[18:49] an ayahuasca or something.
[18:51] They were the CEO of a company and then
[18:53] they quit their company and they go off
[18:54] to the jungle, leave their family,
[18:56] divorce their their partner,
[18:58] um make such dramatic life changes
[19:01] because their perspective has been
[19:03] shifted so much
[19:05] that they reevaluate what matters in
[19:07] life to such a degree that they give up
[19:09] a lot of the things that mattered
[19:10] before.
[19:11] >> Yeah. In the wake of that, there are
[19:13] people that
[19:15] feel they're a victim of that behavioral
[19:18] shift. The investors in the company, the
[19:20] employees, the family members, et
[19:22] cetera.
[19:23] >> Yeah. Can you just talk a little bit
[19:25] about those broad risks? Because we've
[19:27] seen it and I'm and I don't know if
[19:28] you've seen the same. But, friends that
[19:30] have kind of like said, "I have this new
[19:32] perspective. I'm giving up my life."
[19:34] I've seen the same thing. And I um
[19:36] one investor told me that he even put it
[19:39] in the deal docs
[19:40] that you know, if we invest, you're not
[19:42] going to do these psychedelics. Cuz they
[19:44] they wanted to minimize the the risk
[19:45] profile. It's a thing. In your deal in
[19:47] an investment in you? No, I just spoke
[19:49] cuz because I've been doing this. Uh uh
[19:52] People bring this up as a topic of
[19:54] conversation. Right. And so they say
[19:55] like, I see you're doing this for
[19:56] longevity, but you know, like I've seen
[19:58] so many examples where
[20:01] people put money in, and you lose the
[20:03] founder. Like they're off. And
[20:05] everyone's high and dry. And so they
[20:07] were telling me that they put into deal
[20:09] docs that they can't do this for the
[20:11] duration of the company. And so it is a
[20:14] thing. And you know, I
[20:16] I have nothing to say about it other
[20:17] than I know it happens.
[20:19] Um, also I would say that most people in
[20:23] the tech world that I'm familiar with,
[20:25] again, they've done this in retreat
[20:27] centers or in social environments. It's
[20:30] not quantified. It's not set and
[20:31] setting. It's So it's a different thing.
[20:34] But I will say like, you know,
[20:36] I I guess me as a person, what I'm
[20:37] trying to focus on, I came back
[20:40] even more motivated to do what I'm doing
[20:43] now. Uh, I don't have a desire to go off
[20:46] in the woods, you know, and like and
[20:48] live that kind of life. It It It
[20:50] emboldened me to work on these things,
[20:51] but no question about it, you you do
[20:54] have a dramatic shift in perspective.
[20:56] And it's it's very hard to get away from
[20:57] >> a very important philosophical question.
[21:01] Who am I? Yes.
[21:03] If I'm defined by
[21:05] my experiences,
[21:08] it roughly equates to my neurons are
[21:11] wired in a way that's a consequence of
[21:14] my experiences.
[21:15] And if I go in and take a drug and in a
[21:17] few hours rewire all my neurons,
[21:20] am I the same person? What makes Brian
[21:22] Brian? You can maybe recall some
[21:24] memories of Brian
[21:26] prior to taking
[21:27] the psychedelic, but Brian as a person
[21:30] has been rewired. Are you a different
[21:32] person now? And what does that say about
[21:35] Are we ever a persistent person?
[21:36] >> Yeah. Right? Yeah. Your question is spot
[21:39] on. Probably the most dramatic
[21:41] reconstruction
[21:43] of your 60 plus trillion cells
[21:46] than anything you can do in life.
[21:48] Yeah, like maybe like a near-death
[21:49] experience, you know, would would maybe
[21:51] uh be close, but it's a dramatic
[21:53] re-wiring of you as a as a human. Your
[21:55] values can change, too. That's right.
[21:57] And you could judge the values pre and
[22:00] post, right? You could judge values
[22:02] ascribed to you by a religion
[22:04] or perhaps values ascribed to you by
[22:06] responsibility
[22:07] to family members, children, spouses,
[22:09] partners, what have you.
[22:11] You abandon them after you go through
[22:13] this change. So your values have
[22:15] changed. Is it right or wrong?
[22:16] >> That's right. I think it's another
[22:17] important question that comes out of all
[22:19] this.
[22:19] >> And like you know, like you now think
[22:21] about that That's within the frame where
[22:23] the world
[22:24] changes at a certain speed. Now you take
[22:26] the world where it's changing faster.
[22:29] So we now know that it's hard to predict
[22:31] what's going to happen
[22:32] 2 weeks from now or a month, right? Like
[22:34] things are changing very quickly. And so
[22:36] now you come up with this practical
[22:38] question, can humans change fast enough
[22:42] in the world where AI is the dominant
[22:45] engine of innovation?
[22:47] And so in that case, like you may want
[22:49] psychedelics as your ally to say, as a
[22:51] human I'm struggling to like move with
[22:53] the change. Yeah. And so there there's
[22:55] potentially a where it it flips from a
[22:58] liability to an asset where like now I
[23:01] do want that restructure changing, even
[23:02] though you have some tail risk of like
[23:04] maybe my priorities will shift.
[23:06] >> you have profound what I would call
[23:08] psycho-flexibility.
[23:10] And I think most people don't. They have
[23:13] either a disinterest in changing who
[23:15] they are overnight
[23:16] or they're fearful of the the
[23:18] ramifications or the experience. And
[23:21] that they wouldn't go through it. How
[23:22] far would you take it? Would you wire
[23:24] yourself up to a neuralink or neural
[23:26] enhancement device that would give you
[23:28] the ability to have information on
[23:30] demand and maybe change your personality
[23:32] and capacity as a human through an
[23:34] implant? Would you consider doing
[23:36] something like that?
[23:36] >> Yes. You would. Would you consider a
[23:38] transgenic system where you basically
[23:41] take a plasmid, which would then express
[23:43] a set of proteins in your body and
[23:45] change uh gene expression profiles and
[23:47] cells in your body and basically could
[23:49] rewire you as a different person? Yes.
[23:51] Yes. Is there a limit to what you would
[23:53] try?
[23:53] >> No. Interesting. Where do you think that
[23:54] comes from? I think I I find it to be
[23:57] the most exciting
[23:59] configuration of life.
[24:01] Uh, the ability to play on the frontier.
[24:04] Uh, novelty and expedition and
[24:07] challenge.
[24:08] That's really my Did you always have it
[24:10] or are you responding to childhood
[24:13] suppression of those I mean it's it's
[24:15] probably it's probably an
[24:16] overcompensation of of trauma response,
[24:18] like most things are. And so, you know,
[24:20] as a child I lived in a very structured
[24:22] religious environment where things were
[24:24] cemented. Like here's the story, here's
[24:26] the plan, here's what you do and what
[24:28] you don't do. Yeah. And so yeah, maybe
[24:30] it's probably just I'm now a flipped in
[24:32] the opposite. Yeah. And so I mean that's
[24:34] like probably true that I really
[24:37] I don't trust my internal generation of
[24:39] reality. You know, I know I'm always
[24:40] making things up. I've got 188 chronic
[24:43] biases, like all humans do. So I'm just
[24:45] I'm generally suspicious of all things
[24:48] all time, and I don't take myself very
[24:50] seriously. So I just find the the
[24:52] frontier play space to be like Right
[24:54] now, I mean, you know, what you're doing
[24:55] in building companies, like you just
[24:56] open up a a toolkit and say like, what
[24:59] can I build? And how do I modify? And so
[25:01] I agree with you. I do have a a strong
[25:04] proclivity towards open display.
[25:06] Do you find that you've been challenged
[25:08] in maintaining, I would call it external
[25:10] responsibility as you explore and
[25:12] enhance yourself so much? Do you give up
[25:15] the responsibility to others around you
[25:16] who maybe are dependent on you or or in
[25:18] need of you? Yeah. I have three kids.
[25:21] And so um
[25:22] I do think about them a lot. And I being
[25:26] a father is a really important thing to
[25:27] me, and it's an important part of my
[25:29] identity. And so that has not changed.
[25:31] So I've never uh vacillated on that or
[25:34] changed my disposition towards that. Uh
[25:36] for those around me,
[25:38] I guess fortunately I have a a social
[25:40] group that just says, go and play.
[25:43] There's There's really no one in my life
[25:45] that tries to claw me back. There's no
[25:47] Velcro. Yeah. It's just all encouraging.
[25:50] And so that I guess I feel very
[25:51] fortunate that everyone around me and
[25:53] they're willing to take the risks. I
[25:54] mean, this is
[25:55] you know, when I sat down for 5-MeO, I
[25:56] mean my my partner Kate, like she's got
[25:59] a ton of risk. Like what if it goes
[26:01] poorly? What if I change my perspective?
[26:02] What if something bad happens? So
[26:05] Well, one could make an argument that
[26:06] taking that degree of risk where
[26:07] something could have gone wrong,
[26:09] the people around you are enabling
[26:11] versus Yeah. being supportive, right?
[26:13] That's right. That's right.
[26:14] >> yeah, that's That's a consequence, but
[26:16] let's shift topics to other
[26:19] uh
[26:20] modalities for longevity. Yeah. What
[26:23] else is on the horizon? So you've had
[26:25] this profound set of experiences with
[26:27] psychedelics. You've documented in a
[26:30] very extraordinary and exquisite fashion
[26:33] all of the other things that you've been
[26:34] doing with interventions. Are there
[26:35] other things that are on the horizon
[26:36] that you're either excited about or that
[26:38] you're considering yourself? Yeah, I
[26:39] mean, two of the ones that we've spoken
[26:41] about, cell therapy and gene therapy.
[26:42] >> Yeah. Yeah. They
[26:44] they're all in the pipeline. Uh so
[26:46] they're not ready yet. We've We've
[26:48] knocked out all the stuff you can do
[26:49] today. Like we've gone through it all,
[26:51] done it all. Um the next gen therapies
[26:54] are just not there yet. So we're looking
[26:56] at mitochondrial rejuvenation. I think
[26:58] that's incredible. I think mitochondrial
[26:59] augmentation therapy. And there was a
[27:01] paper I saw where in order to get the
[27:04] mitochondria in the cell, they coated
[27:06] the mitochondria in effectively a red
[27:08] blood cell envelope,
[27:09] >> Yep. which made it more transportable
[27:10] into cells and less uh attacked by the
[27:12] immune system.
[27:13] >> Which is incredible. And I I'm a big big
[27:16] big believer in this this this course of
[27:18] therapy. I think it's going to be a
[27:19] whole therapeutic modality that no one
[27:21] has even recognized.
[27:22] >> We have our first uh mitochondrial
[27:24] therapy lined up. So How are you going
[27:25] to do it? You're You're like 99.9%. You
[27:27] need someone who's like 48.7%
[27:31] >> [laughter]
[27:31] >> to try the mitochondrial
[27:33] particularly like, you know, I think
[27:34] they tried it in Parkinson's patients,
[27:36] Alzheimer's patients. That's where you
[27:38] can really see profound shifts in in
[27:41] certain metrics. For you, it's like 99.9
[27:43] to what? Like
[27:44] >> Yeah, yeah. You know, I had the
[27:45] mitochondria, you know, of a
[27:46] 48-year-old. Right? So like, what what
[27:48] if I What if I could
[27:50] >> Yes. You could go to your sibling's
[27:52] child because the the mitochondria is
[27:54] passed maternally cuz it's in the it's
[27:56] in the egg cell. So it's the mother's
[27:58] mitochondria.
[28:01] >> Right.
[28:02] If you have a a sister who has a kid,
[28:04] they're going to have very young
[28:05] mitochondria. You can take a little
[28:06] blood sample and then grow their
[28:08] mitochondria extensively and use that as
[28:10] a biological match to you.
[28:12] >> This is a perfect extension. I've had a
[28:14] blood boy as a son. Yeah. So now I'm
[28:16] just going to go to the extended family
[28:17] and be like, guys,
[28:19] it's a it's a family project. Yeah,
[28:21] family project. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[28:23] Well, that one's super interesting. And
[28:24] then
[28:24] >> have one that we're doing
[28:26] I've I'm now building
[28:27] >> Sorry, are you going to do your own
[28:28] mitochondrial transplantation? You're
[28:30] going to build a bioreactor or are you
[28:31] using working with a one of the third
[28:32] parties that Yeah, third company, yeah.
[28:33] So I'll I'll get I'll do a blood draw in
[28:35] the next week or two. They'll spin up.
[28:37] And then we'll do it. Yeah, I'll do it.
[28:38] Yeah. So you're going to get your
[28:39] mitochondria, which have some
[28:43] you know, the the problem with
[28:44] mitochondria, as you know, is
[28:45] mitochondrial DNA degradation over time,
[28:47] right? It accelerates for certain
[28:49] people, but that way if you go back to a
[28:50] young person, you have young
[28:52] mitochondria.
[28:53] But then you're going to multiply yours
[28:54] out. Yes. And probably select a little
[28:56] bit or for healthier ones. Right. Okay.
[28:58] And then put it back in. It's very I
[28:59] mean, it's exploratory.
[29:01] We don't know. We're one of the first.
[29:03] They're They're in phase two now. Do you
[29:04] sprint? Yeah, I do. So you could
[29:07] probably score if you did it
[29:08] intramuscular like mitochondrial
[29:10] therapy, you could sprint see your
[29:11] score. That's a great idea. Yeah, thank
[29:12] you.
[29:14] Uh that would be a great way to measure
[29:15] it from a rather than just a basic
[29:17] biomarker perspective. Be really
[29:19] interesting to see. Yeah. Sprinting is
[29:21] one of the most underappreciated
[29:22] longevity therapies. Yeah, I I don't do
[29:24] it. Oh, man.
[29:25] >> I've got the
[29:26] the age of a 74-year-old
[29:29] uh roughly.
[29:30] >> [laughter]
[29:32] >> I am uh I'm definitely not keeping track
[29:35] with you. Would you consider or have you
[29:37] looked at any plasmids where you take a
[29:38] gene
[29:40] as DNA, put it in your body, and then
[29:41] that gene makes a protein in your body
[29:43] that that does something? Like the one
[29:44] we were looking at in the FoxO3
[29:45] expression. Yeah, exactly. So the
[29:47] mesenchymal stem cells it packaged up
[29:49] with the Foxo 3 delivery.
[29:51] Um yeah, that showed that over 50% of
[29:53] tissues getting that rejuvenation.
[29:54] >> It's unbelievable.
[29:55] >> Unbelievable. It's like the
[29:56] It's the best demonstration in the
[29:57] entire world.
[29:58] >> for tissue regeneration. Like as a
[29:59] particular application set, tissue
[30:01] regeneration using that sort of system
[30:04] seems like a no-brainer. Like, yeah.
[30:05] >> It's safe, right? It's like it's Yeah,
[30:07] so I
[30:08] reached out to that Chinese professor.
[30:10] I'm really interested in seeing it
[30:11] replicating. I would love
[30:13] >> out to the Chinese professor?
[30:14] >> Yeah. That's awesome. [laughter]
[30:15] >> Yeah. We sent that paper Yeah, yeah,
[30:17] yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
[30:18] So, I Yeah.
[30:20] >> Awesome. Yeah. Good. Uh so, we I'd love
[30:23] to do that. Um I'd love to actually
[30:24] build it ourselves. Yeah, but that's
[30:26] like a 2-year project. So, um Hey, I can
[30:29] help. Make it faster.
[30:30] >> That's true. Yeah. Actually, that's
[30:31] true. AI as a project manager for these
[30:33] sorts of programs is You know, that's
[30:34] true. We We spoke about this 6 months
[30:36] ago. Yeah.
[30:37] >> they're so different. So different now,
[30:39] 6 months later, in terms of standing it
[30:40] up. Um so, that one's cool. So, I think
[30:42] that's a good good option. Then also,
[30:43] I'm doing uh Bryan Johnson organoids.
[30:45] So, uh we took my iPS iPSCs. We now have
[30:49] them
[30:49] >> Induced pluripotent stem cells. So, you
[30:51] took your cells, turned them into stem
[30:52] cells. Yep. Yeah. So, now we're doing in
[30:54] dish. So, now we have like a Bryan
[30:55] Johnson heart, liver, lungs. And now
[30:57] we're going to try molecules on me and
[31:00] in dish.
[31:00] >> have a plot So, so let me just walk the
[31:02] audience through this. So, you take
[31:03] cells off of your skin or something
[31:04] blood, and then you put these Yamanaka
[31:06] factor proteins on those cells, causes
[31:09] those cells to become stem cells, which
[31:11] means they can then turn into any other
[31:12] cell. And then you put other proteins on
[31:13] them to turn them into a heart cell or a
[31:16] eye cell or or what have you. And now
[31:18] you've got a store of these
[31:21] tissue-specific Bryan Johnson cells
[31:23] >> Yes. that you then use for Like, you can
[31:25] say, "Okay, what if you give Bryan
[31:27] Johnson
[31:29] blank you know, drug?
[31:31] What is What happens? Is it good? Is it
[31:32] bad? What are the side effects? What are
[31:33] the complications?
[31:34] >> dish, you put the drug in there. See
[31:35] what happens.
[31:35] >> Yeah. Okay.
[31:36] >> just like you can simulate all these
[31:37] experiments. So, now you you get the
[31:39] advantage of time, of acceleration, of
[31:41] like what to take, why, what dose.
[31:43] That's awesome. Uh what combinatorial
[31:44] things to consider. Yeah.
[31:46] >> we we have the organoids stood up. We
[31:47] haven't done our first test yet. Yeah.
[31:49] So, that's interesting because now I
[31:50] have to do this old-school methodology,
[31:52] like put it in my body, wait to see what
[31:54] happens. Is it good? Is it bad? What you
[31:57] know, how does it affect everything
[31:58] else?
[31:58] >> Yeah, totally. That's a good one. But
[32:00] let me I don't know, we'll see. It's
[32:01] It's cool in concept. I mean, TBD if it
[32:03] actually works. So, we'll see.
[32:05] Have you tracked any of the alternative
[32:07] Yamanaka factors, their factor discovery
[32:09] work that's going on? And do you think
[32:11] there's anything worth testing at this
[32:12] stage? Yeah, I'm a an investor in
[32:14] NewLimit. So, I've talked to them about
[32:16] the where they're at and Blake and
[32:18] Bryan's company. They've done I mean,
[32:21] they've made remarkable progress. They
[32:23] they figured out how to computationally
[32:25] solve the discovery process. Yeah. And
[32:27] so, I they um they're much faster than
[32:29] they initially thought. And so, that's
[32:31] very encouraging.
[32:31] >> the big challenge with the Yamanaka
[32:32] factors is always dosing. If you
[32:35] overdose a cell, a one cell, that cell
[32:38] can become a cancer cell and take off as
[32:40] a tumor.
[32:41] >> Yeah. So, the sensitivity that you need
[32:43] to have to get the right number of the
[32:45] factors, which is a protein, into the
[32:46] cell needs to be Yeah. perfectly tuned.
[32:49] Yeah. So, I have a theory that this will
[32:51] end up being solved by cellular switches
[32:54] Hmm. that will end up putting machinery
[32:56] into the cells that can turn on or off
[32:58] the protein synthesis at the right
[33:00] dosing based on the measurement of gene
[33:03] expression in the cell. That's my theory
[33:05] on where this will end up.
[33:06] >> of sense. Any other control mechanism
[33:08] will be inadequate.
[33:09] >> That's right.
[33:09] >> The feedback loop just All you need is
[33:11] one error and you're you're you're in
[33:12] trouble. Yeah. But it is it is the most
[33:14] profound, I think, technology that
[33:16] humanity's dealing with today besides
[33:17] AI. We're not quite there with fusion,
[33:19] which I would argue is probably a
[33:20] distant third, but it is very powerful
[33:22] if possible.
[33:23] >> again, in the future, like I think we'll
[33:25] look back and we'll see GLP-1s as the
[33:27] first big drop. Yeah.
[33:28] >> I'm like, "What? I can just inject
[33:29] myself and like it solves hunger and you
[33:31] know, and then the second will probably
[33:33] be something like NewLimit or one of
[33:35] these Foxo one of these plasma-based
[33:36] Foxo 3 therapies where it will show real
[33:39] life like dramatic changes. And then
[33:42] humanity will shift as like
[33:45] uh longevity being a vision of sci-fi,
[33:48] you know, rich people pursuit to like
[33:50] something that is truly
[33:52] Yeah, I mean, go back to like the
[33:53] conversation on on the temptation
[33:55] towards socialism. Right? Like, if if
[33:57] you can feel robust in your ability to
[34:00] pursue life and be healthy and vibrant
[34:03] and uh in control, I think these things
[34:06] could have dramatic changes in society,
[34:07] not just in health, but like Well, any
[34:09] form of abundance, whether it's
[34:10] abundance in food, in energy, in
[34:12] housing, in mobility, in life
[34:15] the more abundant people get, the
[34:16] happier they are. And the more you're
[34:18] improving abundance in the world, the
[34:21] the better we are going to live as a
[34:23] group of people together on planet
[34:24] Earth.
[34:25] >> Exactly. The happier we will all be with
[34:27] each other. But I think like honestly,
[34:28] like a lot of the the the
[34:30] >> External conflict only comes from
[34:31] internal unhappiness. 100%. And so, if
[34:33] you look at the general malaise of like
[34:35] American society, like no wonder
[34:38] uh things are shitty, right? Like,
[34:40] you've got meta 84% of people have
[34:41] metabolic disorder. Over 40% of people
[34:43] are obese. Like, we're just in really
[34:45] poor health. Nobody's sleeping.
[34:46] Everyone's on their phone. Like, mental
[34:48] health issues. Like, no wonder
[34:50] you have the proclivity towards these
[34:52] kinds of outcomes. Like, so if you could
[34:53] get the health in check, it changes the
[34:56] psychological disposition of you, your
[34:57] community, your country. Like, you have
[34:59] much more of a can-do attitude. Like, I
[35:01] can take on the world and I can do hard
[35:02] things. But when you're not feeling
[35:04] well, like it's just everything is just
[35:05] so much harder.
[35:06] >> Yeah, 100%. And so, in light of all of
[35:09] these new therapeutic modalities and
[35:10] these new opportunities that seem to be
[35:13] biologically proven and have these
[35:14] profound effects,
[35:15] why continue to tinker with
[35:17] psychedelics? Like, are they as profound
[35:19] or are they a complement or like how do
[35:20] you think about fitting all of this
[35:22] portfolio of things that you're looking
[35:23] at together?
[35:24] >> Yeah. I mean, I guess the question is I
[35:26] forget on the Foxo 3 study. I don't know
[35:28] if they saw brain rejuvenation.
[35:30] >> I did not see that. And I don't I don't
[35:32] remember. I mean, it is a very
[35:34] complicated organ. Yeah, exactly. And
[35:36] it's insane. Like,
[35:38] you know, you can grow muscle tissue
[35:40] back and you can grow skin tissue back
[35:42] and it's kind of like, "Okay, I grew a
[35:43] little like Like, if you grow the the
[35:45] the neurons back maybe in the wrong way
[35:48] like we don't know Yeah. because it's
[35:50] never been done before.
[35:51] >> Yeah. So, understanding the consequence
[35:54] of neuro regeneration is like
[35:57] So, I wonder like if the role it might
[35:58] play. Like, you know, maybe
[36:00] psilocybin and 5-MeO won't be
[36:03] um
[36:04] you know, meaningful for
[36:07] like basic functions of the body. But
[36:08] maybe it's the
[36:11] the outperformer
[36:13] in youthfulness of your of your
[36:16] disposition towards reality. Like, one
[36:18] thing I'm I'm apprehensive about is you
[36:20] know, I'm 48. And so,
[36:22] as you start climbing to your 50s, 60s,
[36:24] you do
[36:25] really narrow. Like, your ambition goes
[36:28] from I can do anything to start, you
[36:30] know, narrowing down further and
[36:32] further. And
[36:33] I worry about using losing a youthful
[36:36] disposition of a can-do attitude, of
[36:38] anything is possible. Totally. And maybe
[36:41] that's the role of psychedelics is you
[36:42] just get a wash of like the snapback of
[36:45] like, I can and I can bounce. That's
[36:48] definitely been the case for me. So, I
[36:50] think they do probably play a really
[36:51] important role of like they're probably
[36:53] a set of things that for certain people
[36:56] that will um
[36:59] It It's basically like I mean, I felt
[37:00] like it was like 30,
[37:02] 40 years of
[37:06] psychological rejuvenation. Like, you
[37:08] know, it's like to transform me back to
[37:09] a childlike state, that is insane. I
[37:11] don't get that from the sauna or from
[37:13] eating well or from sleeping well. Like,
[37:14] I'm still
[37:15] >> Right. So, it's They're just unique.
[37:18] Yeah, amazing. Well, listen, I'm going
[37:20] to go drink alcohol and eat carbs and
[37:22] stay out late. I don't know, what are
[37:23] you going to do?
[37:25] I'm going to go to bed on time and
[37:27] do my wind-down routine. Yeah, you do
[37:28] you.
[37:29] But but you do you as well. Enjoy
[37:31] [laughter] it.
[37:32] I appreciate it. This has been great.
[37:33] Bryan Johnson, thank you.
[37:34] >> Yeah, that was awesome. That was great.
[37:36] I'm going all in.
[37:52] I'm going all [music]
[37:53] in.
