UFC's Ethyn Ewing Rejects Brawl-Heavy MMA for Technical Avoidance

PowerfulJRE

Ethyn Ewing argues that brawl-heavy fighting styles shorten fighters' careers and contribute to long-term neurological damage, emphasizing that true championship success relies on spatial control and technical precision.

AI-assisted summary of JRE MMA Show #185 with Ethyn Ewing — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2026-09-13

Detailed notes

## Background Published by PowerfulJRE on YouTube on September 2, 2026, this episode of the JRE MMA Show (#185) features host Joe Rogan sitting down with Ethyn Ewing. According to the page description, Ewing is a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the UFC's bantamweight division.

## TL;DR UFC bantamweight Ethyn Ewing joins Joe Rogan to dissect the technical nuances of modern mixed martial arts, emphasizing damage avoidance and tactical ring control over hyper-violent brawling. Ewing reflects on his transition from Iowa-style wrestling to high-level striking, detailing his recent short-notice UFC debut and his physical recovery strategies, including knee rehabilitation without surgery and extreme weight-cutting methods. The conversation spans a broad range of topics, from historical MMA rules and co-promotional business models to samurai philosophy, bow hunting, and the mechanics of knockout power.

## Atmosphere & style The conversation carries a relaxed yet deeply analytical atmosphere, characterized by an enthusiastic mutual respect for combat sports technicality. Rogan acts as the curious, experienced commentator, drawing historical parallels from early UFC eras, while Ewing speaks with the calm, reflective confidence of a young martial artist committed to continuous self-improvement. The dialogue smoothly shifts between granular breakdowns of striking mechanics and casual, engaging tangents on samurai philosophy, wilderness hunting, and physical longevity.

## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=0s) Ethyn Ewing argues that brawl-heavy fighting strategies are reckless and that true championship-level fighting relies on defensive spatial control and minimizing return fire. - [08:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=492s) Ewing transformed his combat approach by blending his foundational Iowa-style wrestling background with refined boxing technique and disciplined sparring. - [12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=725s) Joe Rogan and Ewing observe that natural elite grapplers like the Ruotolo brothers stand out in a BJJ landscape heavily saturated with performance-enhancing drugs. - [19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1166s) Extreme single-shot knockout power often stems from anatomical muscle insertion points, whereas volume strikers inflict cumulative damage over time. - [20:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1254s) Conor McGregor's optimal stamina and pacing occurred at featherweight, whereas moving up weight divisions placed new strains on his cardio and recovery. - [27:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1653s) Ilia Topuria's success at featherweight highlights the effectiveness of fundamental boxing setups, clean distance control, and jab combinations. - [30:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1830s) Fighters taking severe head damage require prolonged recovery periods to avoid compromised durability from returning to action too early. - [01:27:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5278s) Severe weight cutting, overheating, and rapid weight drops severely drain the central nervous system and degrade athletic performance. - [01:14:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4454s) Rehabilitating knee injuries using backward sled pulls, Poliquin step-downs, and targeted mobility drills builds joint resilience more effectively than premature surgery. - [01:23:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5003s) In-and-out point karate movement and precision body kicks demand exact spatial timing and distance management to bypass defensive cover. - [02:06:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7596s) Early ground-and-pound and bare-knuckle fighting rules demonstrate how physical positioning and grappling control systematically break down pure strikers. - [02:06:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7616s) Rogan opposes referee stand-ups in modern MMA, emphasizing that controlling an opponent on the ground is a core component of winning. - [02:14:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8041s) The UFC's promotional model strictly limits co-promotions with outside organizations to protect brand value and maintain competitive dominance. - [02:21:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8500s) As fighters age, relying solely on raw athletic explosiveness becomes unsustainable, making jab-heavy tactics and efficient movement essential.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1s) "Professor Finesser" and the Art of Longevity

Joe Rogan opens the podcast admiring Ethyn Ewing's signature apparel line, pointing out the cross-guard design and discussing his fight moniker, "Professor Finesser." Ewing explains that the nickname naturally grew into a guiding philosophy for his approach to martial arts. Rogan brings up Ewing’s striking debut in the UFC—taking a fight on just two days' notice, stepping up a weight class from bantamweight to featherweight, and facing the heavily hyped KO artist Malcolm Wellmaker. Rather than getting drawn into a wild brawl, Ewing stood out for his calm composure, fluid footwork, and tactical intelligence.

The conversation pivots to why hit-and-not-get-hit technical mastery is essential for career longevity. Ewing argues that standing in front of an opponent to trade brain damage is "silly" and that true champions do not take return fire. Rogan shares a recent conversation he had with world-class pool player Fedor Gorst while visiting the Ways to Well clinic with Brigham Buhler. They discussed how athletes across sports—whether pool, golf, or fighting—must continually refine fundamental technique rather than rely on raw grit. Rogan and Ewing agree that while fans cheer for face-first brawlers, that style is a trap that shortens careers and leads to sad, CTE-plagued retirements encouraged by negligent coaches and promoter matchmakers.

- **Guest:** Ethyn Ewing (UFC Bantamweight). - **Debut Details:** Took a 145 lb (featherweight) fight on 2 days' notice against Malcolm Wellmaker. - **Wellmaker's Background:** Came off Dana White’s Contender Series hype, including KO wins (such as his knockout over Chris Moutinho). - **Key Quote:** *"To watch guys go in there and just brawl it out and say let's see who can take more punches before the other guy drops is just silly to me... hit and not get hit and champions don't take return fire."* — Ethyn Ewing

---

[05:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=343s) Tactical Precision vs. "Educated Street Brawls"

Ewing notes how frustrating it can be that the general public feeds off chaotic violence rather than technical mastery. He points to a recent Dana White’s Contender Series bout involving Roman Puga—a fighter from his local area—where both combatants battered each other so severely they ended up straight in the hospital. While thrilling for spectators, Ewing views it as an "educated street brawl" that strays from the true goal of martial arts: absolute spatial control, angle-cutting, head movement, and damage avoidance.

Rogan draws a parallel to Israel Adesanya in his prime, describing how Adesanya controlled opponents like a choreographer, feeding reactions into a mental computer before executing precise counters. Ewing adds that casual fans often fail to realize MMA is a "smart man's game, not a tough man's game." Rogan expresses his wish that young, up-and-coming fighters would emulate high-IQ technicians like Ewing instead of taking unnecessary beatings that leave their faces as "road maps of scars."

- **Contender Series Example:** Roman Puga's recent war on DWCS left both fighters hospital-bound. - **Prime Stylist Reference:** Israel Adesanya's faint-heavy, distance-controlling style. - **Core Concept:** Overloading an opponent's nervous system with constant movement, counters, and range management rather than relying on pure physical durability.

---

[08:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=492s) Evolving from Iowa-Style Wrestling to Technical Balance

Reflecting on his martial arts journey, Ewing describes his athletic origins in Iowa-style wrestling—a relentless, grind-it-out philosophy focused on heavy hand fighting, snap-downs, breaking an opponent's spirit, and forward pressure. Early on, this aggressive mindset held back his striking finesse. When he shifted toward pure striking, he swung to the opposite extreme: dancing on the outside, using flicker jabs, Ali shuffles, and actively avoiding physical grinding.

Now, Ewing feels he has reached a mature middle ground by letting his ego go in the gym. Instead of hyper-focusing on looking perfect or avoiding all physical scrambles, he combines relentless pressure with refined boxing technique. Rogan agrees that checking one's ego in sparring is crucial; training must be a laboratory for exposing and fixing personal weaknesses rather than trying to "win" every practice session.

- **Stylistic Evolution:** Iowa-style heavy pressure $\rightarrow$ Pure distance-striking finesse $\rightarrow$ Integrated technical pressure. - **Gym Mindset:** Sacrificing aesthetic perfection in training to become comfortable in uncomfortable, high-physicality situations.

---

[12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=725s) Training with the Ruotolo Brothers & Steroids in Jiu-Jitsu

Ewing highlights his time training at CSW under Erik Paulson alongside Kade and Tye Ruotolo. Rogan and Ewing praise the Ruotolo brothers for their hyper-kinetic, relentless, and scramble-heavy grappling style. Ewing jokes about their unusually long arms wrapping up D'Arce chokes from anywhere, comparing their wild wall-jumps and athletic double-legs to a high-octane WWE match. Both express excitement for the Ruotolos' ongoing transition into MMA in ONE Championship and their prospective future in the UFC.

The discussion shifts to how rare it is that the Ruotolo brothers perform at an elite level entirely natural. Rogan and Ewing talk candidly about how competitive Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is heavily enhanced, noting that because major organizations like ADCC do not conduct rigorous drug testing, elite grapplers frequently use performance-enhancing drugs to gain an edge.

- **Featured Gym & Coaches:** CSW (Combat Submission Wrestling), Erik Paulson. - **Athletes Discussed:** Kade and Tye Ruotolo, Khamzat Chimaev, Marcelo Garcia/RDA-style long-arm choke specialists. - **Grappling Dynamics:** Using relentless, chaotic scrambles as an offensive weapon to force mistakes. - **Industry Insight:** ADCC's lack of strict testing renders top-tier submission grappling an largely "enhanced" sport, making natural elite athletes exceptional anomalies.

---

[15:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=910s) Steroids, Technical Prowess, and the "Great Eraser"

The conversation opens with a discussion on performance-enhancing drugs and raw technical skill, pointing to BJJ legend Gordon Ryan as the ultimate case study. Rogan and Ewing observe that while critics claim Gordon's dominance is purely due to steroids, he was already winning tournaments and tapping world champions when he was completely natural as a younger, smaller athlete. Ewing emphasizes that at the elite level, if everyone else is taking gear, you are at a massive disadvantage if you don't. However, supreme technical mastery remains the ultimate equalizer—it can negate both a opponent's size and strength.

On the flip side, power is its own unique anomaly in combat sports. Ewing notes that a fighter with a "one-hit quitter" can get beaten up for two straight rounds, but if they land a single clean shot and put their opponent to sleep, all previous sins are forgiven in the eyes of the audience. Rogan adds that while a fighter who blends elite power with high technical proficiency is terrifying, power and raw talent are often a curse. Gifted fighters tend to work less hard because they dominate gym rounds with pure physicality.

Rogan brings up former heavyweight boxing champion Deontay Wilder as the quintessential example of relying strictly on power over fundamental boxing technique. Calling Wilder the greatest one-punch knockout artist in heavyweight history, Rogan recalls Teddy Atlas’s famous description of Wilder’s right hand: "It’s the great eraser." No matter how many technical mistakes he makes throughout a fight, one landed punch erases every single one of them.

- **Gordon Ryan:** Dominant in submission grappling; praised for his unquestionable technical prowess, which existed well before his physical transformation. - **Deontay Wilder:** Referenced as the ultimate example of raw knockout power overriding technical flaws; described by Teddy Atlas as possessing "the great eraser."

---

[19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1166s) The Physics of Knockout Power vs. Volume Striking

Speculating on hypothetical fighting scenarios, Rogan notes that if a pure power-puncher like Deontay Wilder possessed the movement and footwork of Oleksandr Usyk or Tyson Fury, or if Francis Ngannou's one-shot power were paired with high-level boxing technique, it would be "game over for everybody." Ewing brings up a physiological concept he discussed with Conor McGregor regarding how muscle heads connect—differing insertion points dictate whether an athlete possesses short-burst explosive power or long-lasting cardiovascular endurance.

The two discuss how knockouts actually happen, agreeing that absolute power isn't always required; it is usually the shot a fighter doesn't see coming that puts them out. Ewing explains that fighters who master feints and create deceptive angles can achieve devastating knockout finishes without possessing innate "one-punch" power. Rogan points to Max Holloway as the perfect example of a volume striker who accumulates damage over time rather than relying on single nuclear shots.

``` +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | STRIKING MECHANICS | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | ONE-PUNCH POWER VOLUME & DECEPTION | | - Explosive muscle composition - Hidden shots / setup feints | | - High energy expenditure - High output over time | | - Early-round threat - Accumulation of damage | | - Example: Deontay Wilder, Ngannou - Example: Max Holloway | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ```

---

[20:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1254s) Examining Fight Cardio and McGregor vs. Aldo

Ewing and Rogan dissect the nuances of cardiovascular endurance in the octagon, specifically analyzing how Conor McGregor and José Aldo managed their energy output. Ewing challenges the popular narrative surrounding McGregor's cardio, pointing out that when Conor fought at 145 pounds (featherweight)—such as in his fight against Chad Mendes—he stayed calm under heavy grappling exchanges and never truly gassed out. It was only after moving up in weight to fight Nate Diaz that his cardio seemed to wane, likely due to changes in his training discipline, diet, and weight-cutting regimen.

Similarly, Ewing questions criticisms of José Aldo's gas tank, pointing out that Aldo was an undefeated champion for ten years who rarely showed fatigue during his prime. Rogan adds that during Aldo's legendary reign, he was almost always the "hammer" and rarely the "nail." He highlights Aldo’s brutal leg-kick clinic against Urijah Faber, praising Faber’s incredible toughness for refusing to quit despite taking career-altering leg damage.

- **Conor McGregor vs. Chad Mendes:** McGregor remained composed under pressure and grappling strain at 145 lbs without gassing out. - **José Aldo vs. Urijah Faber:** Aldo delivered legendary leg kicks, while Faber showed legendary durability by fighting through total leg compromise until the final bell.

---

[24:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1467s) Max Holloway's Pressure and the Realities of Weight Cutting

Rogan explains that Max Holloway's success stems from his ability to pace himself, gauge when to hit the gas, and apply relentless pressure until opponents fade. Holloway's pace remains identical from the first round to the fifth, as demonstrated in his chaotic BMF title war against Justin Gaethje. Ewing notes that high-output fighters build their conditioning around short bursts—similar to track sprints—maintaining active movement even when "resting" inside the cage.

The conversation turns to Holloway’s featherweight title loss to Ilia Topuria. Rogan argues that Holloway made a critical mistake by bulking up significantly to fight Gaethje at 155 pounds and then trying to cut back down to 145 pounds shortly after. Starving his body to make 145 pounds left Holloway depleted, leading to a brutal weight cut right before facing a hyper-technical power-puncher like Topuria.

> "That last cut to 45 was a nightmare. It was a horror show. And so when he got in there with Ilia and then you're fighting El Matador... you want to talk about technique, right? Technique and his striking, the smoothness and efficiency, and the one-punch go-night power."

---

[27:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1653s) Ilia Topuria's Technical Dominance and the Lost Art of the Jab

Ewing and Rogan express awe at Ilia Topuria's skill set, highlighting his victories over Charles Oliveira and Max Holloway. Despite being smaller than lightweight opponents like Gaethje, Topuria possesses explosive power combined with pristine boxing fundamentals. Ewing notes that Topuria stands out in MMA because he remains completely composed, sits on his back foot, controls distance with a sharp jab, and sets traps rather than wildly throwing overhands.

Ewing criticizes the general state of striking in MMA, expressing frustration with fighters who neglect basic boxing fundamentals. He points out that too many UFC athletes rely entirely on loading up big overhand rights instead of establishing distance and setting up combinations behind a jab.

- **MMA Striking Flaw:** Over-reliance on wild overhand rights instead of fundamental jab work and distance control. - **Ilia Topuria:** Combines extreme power with composure, technical pocket control, and precise jab setups. - **Justin Gaethje's Power:** Topuria took severe damage in his war with Gaethje, including two fractured orbitals, showing the physical toll required to fight at the absolute top.

[30:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1830s) Recovery Time and the Mental Toll of Big Knockouts

Joe Rogan and Ethyn Ewing emphasize the critical need for adequate recovery time after taking severe damage in a fight, particularly following a knockout. Rogan notes that a fighter needs to be fully recovered before even considering returning to sparring or taking punches to the face again. Discussing a recent June fight (with their conversation occurring at the end of August), Rogan points out that the fighter likely needs a full six months before stepping back into light contact, let alone hard sparring.

Ewing reflects on the psychological weight that undefeated fighters carry when they suffer their first devastating loss. He notes how being undefeated breeds a sense of invincibility, making the eventual fall from grace far more damaging. He points to legendary featherweight José Aldo as a prime example—someone who came back and fought courageously after losing his throne, but was never quite the same "untouchable" force again. Ewing stresses that returning successfully requires an almost impenetrable mental indestructibility to convince yourself that one loss does not define your identity.

- **José Aldo Example:** Ewing cites Aldo's post-loss career as a cautionary tale of a fighter who remained tough but lost his aura of invincibility. - **The Damage Realities:** Rogan stresses that only the fighter knows the true physical and mental toll a war takes on their body.

---

[32:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1925s) Alexander Volkanovski and the Perils of Coming Back Too Soon

Rogan singles out Alexander Volkanovski—whom he considers arguably the greatest featherweight of all time—as the ultimate modern example of a fighter rushing back too quickly after severe trauma. Volkanovski took a short-notice rematch against Islam Makhachev, suffered a head-kick knockout, and then turned around just four months later to defend his belt against Ilia Topuria, who Rogan calls "the scariest challenger that he's ever had to face."

Rogan criticizes the initial decision to take the Makhachev rematch on short notice in the first place, pointing out that Volkanovski was out of camp, hanging out, drinking beer, and eating fish and chips. Physically, Volkanovski looked noticeably smoother and less conditioned than his usual hyper-chiseled self. Ewing agrees, emphasizing the night-and-day difference between maintaining general fitness and going through an intense two-to-three-month fight camp with strict diet and hyper-focused discipline.

- **Volkanovski's Timeline:** Took a head-kick KO against Islam Makhachev on short notice and fought Ilia Topuria just four months later. - **Out-of-Camp vs. In-Camp:** Ewing highlights how two-to-three daily practices and structured nutrition during camp cannot be replicated by casual off-camp training.

---

[33:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2013s) Ethyn Ewing's 48-Hour UFC Call-Up and Short-Notice Victories

Rogan asks Ewing about his own experience taking a short-notice fight when he stepped in on just 48 hours' notice to face the 10-0 undefeated prospect Malcolm Welmaker at MSG. Ewing jokes that his preparation consisted of "food eating championship training" where he was "killing double-doubles and 3x3s" at In-N-Out. In reality, Ewing had stayed strict and kept a fight-camp mentality all year long despite multiple opponent pull-outs.

Ewing explains that he had just fought on November 7th in a title fight for A1 Combat, scoring a knockout in just 90 seconds. Because he took virtually zero damage, he took a short week off to relax, enjoy a few drinks at a casino, and eat whatever he wanted. Just as he was taking that breather, the UFC called with the 48-hour short-notice offer against Welmaker. Rogan agrees that fighting so recently was actually a massive advantage because the intensity of the cage closing, the crowd energy, and the weight cut were fresh in Ewing's muscle memory—unlike a fighter like Conor McGregor taking multi-year layoffs.

> "I was doing food eating championship training... killing double doubles and 3x3s." — Ethyn Ewing

- **A1 Combat Title Fight:** Fought November 7th, scoring a 1:30 first-round knockout before taking the UFC short-notice call. - **UFC Short-Notice Matchup:** Accepted a fight on 48 hours' notice at MSG against 10-0 Malcolm Welmaker. - **Ring Rust vs. Activity:** Rogan compares Ewing's quick turnaround to Conor McGregor's five-year layoffs, noting how extended breaks disrupt a fighter's timing and mindset.

---

[36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2194s) Israel Adesanya's Title Defense Work ethic and Activity vs. Burnout

Rogan pulls up statistics on former UFC Middleweight Champion Israel Adesanya, praising his unmatched activity during his title reign. Rogan highlights that Adesanya was the ultimate company man, stepping up whenever the UFC needed a main event and even defending his world title three times in a single calendar year. Rogan notes how stark the contrast is compared to the middleweight division after Adesanya lost the belt, where title fights became far more sporadic among champions like Sean Strickland, Dricus du Plessis, and Khamzat Chimaev.

However, the conversation shifts to the fine line between staying active and burning out. Rogan and Ewing discuss Merab Dvalishvili's hyper-active schedule and his rematch against Petr Yan, debating whether an overly demanding strength of schedule eventually becomes a detriment. Ewing notes that only the fighter knows deep down when they are truly ready, and that coaches cannot always gauge a fighter's inner exhaustion or minor injuries.

- **Israel Adesanya's Title Run:** Defended the middleweight title 3 times in 1 year. - **Middleweight Title Turnover:** Rogan notes only roughly 5 middleweight title fights occurred in the prolonged stretch following Adesanya's initial belt loss, involving Strickland, Du Plessis, and Chimaev. - **Merab Dvalishvili vs. Petr Yan:** Mentioned as a case study for whether extreme fight frequency eventually drains an athlete's physical peak.

---

[38:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2316s) MMA vs. Boxing: Business Mindsets, Injuries, and Freak Accidents

Ewing admires the business mindset prevalent in professional boxing, pointing to Floyd Mayweather as the master of controlling variables—selecting gloves, fight dates, and conditions to maximize safety and success. In contrast, MMA fighters often lean into a reckless "fight anyone, anytime, anywhere" toughness, frequently stepping into the cage carrying severe injuries that end up damaging their career records. Ewing argues that fighters need smart teams to protect them from their own warrior instincts.

To illustrate how easily injuries occur in MMA compared to boxing, Ewing reveals that right before his April fight against Rafael Estevam, he tore his meniscus in a freak accident during a light warmup round with heavyweight Callum Bisping. Ewing tried to elevate his hips from a butterfly guard to scramble safely under Bisping's heavy weight, and his meniscus popped immediately on the very first round of the day. As a result, he was unable to grapple for the entire final month of his training camp leading into the Estevam fight.

- **Floyd Mayweather's Business Model:** Ewing highlights how boxing elites treat fight selection, gear, and scheduling strictly as a business. - **Freak Knee Injury:** Ewing tore his meniscus in February while light sparring/grappling in butterfly guard with heavyweight Callum Bisping. - **Pre-Fight Compromise:** Ewing could not do any grappling training during the final month leading up to his April fight against Rafael Estevam.

---

[43:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2584s) The Modern Evolution of MMA and Anderson Silva's Alien Era

Rogan highlights how drastically MMA skill levels have evolved over two decades. Looking at Ewing's back-to-back victories over undefeated, highly skilled opponents like Malcolm Welmaker and Rafael Estevam, Rogan remarks that if Ewing had fought 20 years ago during *The Ultimate Fighter* Season 1 era, he would have looked like an "alien" because no one possessed that level of dynamic, multi-disciplinary striking and grappling.

Rogan notes that it wasn't until Anderson Silva arrived in the UFC shortly after TUF Season 1 that the sport witnessed true elite-level striking artistry. Rogan recalls watching Silva in his absolute prime—specifically his iconic UFC debut against the brutal knockout artist Chris Leben. While many doubted Silva against Leben's raw power, Rogan advised his friend to "bet the house on the Brazilian." The two recount Silva's magical run through Cage Rage (highlighting his famous reverse elbow knockout of Tony Fryklund) and his early Pride and Rumble on the Rock appearances, including the famous illegal upkick DQ against Yushin Okami.

- **TUF Season 1 Comparison:** Rogan asserts that modern fighters like Ewing represent a massive technical leap from fighters 20 years ago. - **Chris Leben Debut:** Rogan accurately predicted Silva would dismantle the heavy-hitting Leben upon entering the UFC. - **Anderson Silva Highlights:** - *Cage Rage:* Reverse elbow KO against Tony Fryklund. - *Rumble on the Rock:* Upkick disqualification against Yushin Okami from guard.

[45:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2750s) Anderson Silva’s Innovation and the Bank Robber Elite Fighter

Joe Rogan and Ethyn Ewing reflect on Anderson Silva’s groundbreaking creativity, highlighting how he was a true pioneer who invented moves on the fly without relying on video study or YouTube tutorials. A prime example was Silva’s iconic reverse upward elbow knockout against Tony Fryklund. Rogan recounts the famous backstory: Silva’s coach told him the technique was completely impractical and forbade him from practicing it in the gym, so Silva went home and made his wife hold pillows for him so he could perfect the mechanics.

The conversation transitions to Silva's bout in Pride and Cage Rage against Lee Murray, the infamous British fighter who went on to mastermind the Securitas depot robbery—the largest cash heist in UK history. Rogan and Ewing marvel at Murray’s bizarre dual life: a legitimate, terrifying criminal with knockout power who was simultaneously an elite professional fighter capable of submitting Jorge Rivera with a triangle choke. Silva, however, dismantled Murray using pure, artistic Muay Thai and devastating leg kicks.

- **Silva's Peak:** Rogan emphasizes that legacy fighters must be judged by their "highest RPM"—the peak multi-year stretch where they were completely unstoppable. - **Lee Murray:** A real-life movie character archetype—an elite UFC/Cage Rage competitor who was also a top-tier organized crime figure.

---

[48:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2911s) The Evolution of the Front Kick and Calf Kick Mechanics

Rogan highlights Silva’s iconic front kick knockout of Vitor Belfort as a watershed moment in MMA history, marking the first time a front kick to the face produced a knockout in the UFC. Rogan recalls an old video of himself with Eddie Bravo hitting a "Bob" dummy, where Rogan doubted the front kick to the face, considering it inferior to body kicks. Today, the technique is a staple because strikes coming straight up the center blind spot are nearly impossible to track when a fighter expects roundhouse trajectories.

Ewing breaks down his own tactical preparations, noting how he utilizes front kicks and side kicks aimed at the liver. He explains how he trained a lead-leg front kick specifically to intercept opponents who heavy-plant their weight to land calf kicks—such as his opponent Fa. By leaning back onto the rear leg when an opponent opens up, a fighter alters the distance frame and snaps a front kick up the middle. Rogan and Ewing detail the mechanics of the Dutch-style calf kick, which relies on a vertical lifting motion without a hip pivot, driving the hard shinbone directly into the soft calf muscle.

- **Yukio Yoza:** Highly praised by Rogan and Ewing as the gold standard for technical, explosive calf kicks thrown without a tell and integrated into rapid striking combinations. - **Defending the Calf Kick:** Ewing notes that while fighters take calf kicks casually in sparring with shin guards, unpadded calf kicks ruin a leg instantly. Effective defenses require picking up the lead leg, changing stances, or stepping in with knees.

---

[52:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3148s) Jonathan Haggerty vs. Yuki Yoza: A Masterclass in Movement

Analyzing kickboxing masterclasses, Rogan references ONE Championship and the fight between Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yoza. Yoza’s relentless leg-destroying style was neutralized by Haggerty’s constant fluid stance switching, lateral movement, jab volume, and push-knees to the body, preventing Yoza from ever setting his feet to plant low kicks.

Rogan praises ONE Championship for housing the highest caliber of pure strikers in combat sports. The discussion turns to Dagestani striking, highlighting fighters like Asadula Imangazaliev and Amru Magomedov in the PFL. Ewing and Rogan discuss how Dagestani fighters are no longer just pure wrestlers; many come from backgrounds like Sanda (Sanshou) or Muay Thai, allowing them to throw spinning wheel kicks and high-level combinations.

- **Jonathan Haggerty's Blueprint:** Used constant motion, switch-knees, and active stance changes to out-point and neutralize Yoza's devastating low-kick arsenal. - **Dagestani Striking Evolution:** Modern Dagestani fighters blend world-class wrestling with long-range, artistic striking disciplines like Muay Thai and Sanda.

---

[56:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3412s) Reach, Body Types, and Mike Tyson’s Elusiveness

Addressing physical frames in combat sports, Rogan and Ewing debate the advantages of different body types. While casual fans often associate fighting prowess with heavily muscled physiques, the long, lean, tall build with an oversized reach offers massive advantages in MMA, enabling long-range strikes, leverage for triangles, and tight D'Arce or guillotine chokes. Ewing notes a recent interaction with a fighter sporting a massive 78-inch reach, which acts like a light heavyweight's reach in lower weight divisions.

Ewing, who possesses a shorter, stockier build, explains that his style requires playing "all the way out or all the way in," using inside boxing to negate long-limbed opponents. Rogan brings up prime Mike Tyson as the ultimate example of a shorter fighter (5'11", ~215–220 lbs) dominating tall heavyweights. Ewing quotes Tyson on his true greatest asset: "It wasn't my physicality that was my greatest asset. It was my elusiveness." They conclude that high-level fighting is an intricate chess match of distance and positioning, often mistaken by casual viewers for a simple brawl.

- **Reach Advantage:** Long arms allow fighters to strike from safe distances and apply submission locks with minimal effort. - **Inside vs. Outside Mechanics:** Shorter fighters negate long limbs by slipping inside, while long fighters win by maintaining distance control through jab and teep management. - **Mike Tyson's Mastery:** Used peek-a-boo bobbing and weaving to turn a size disadvantage into explosive inside power entries.

[01:00:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3616s) Levels of Understanding and the Reality of Fighter Fatigue

Joe Rogan and Ethyn Ewing discuss the stark difference between casual fight fans and true students of mixed martial arts. Rogan highlights that real satisfaction for a fighter comes when a peer or knowledgeable observer appreciates the technical nuances of their game—praising specific setups or techniques—rather than just reacting to big, chaotic moments. Casual spectators often misunderstand what is happening inside the Octagon, mistaking a missed strike or tactical pause for lack of skill simply because they have never stepped into a cage or sparred.

Ewing admits that he used to have a similar casual perspective when watching UFC fights with his father growing up. He used to sit on the couch wondering why a fighter didn't just capitalize on an obvious opening. However, gaining firsthand fighting experience completely transformed his perspective. He now recognizes that viewers sitting at home cannot feel the immense fatigue, the hidden pre-existing injuries, or the sensory overload of competing inside a cage before thousands of fans.

- Elite fighters gain the most validation when fellow high-level martial artists acknowledge specific technical maneuvers. - Passive viewers lack insight into the physical tax, tactical pressure, and hidden injuries fighters manage in real time.

[01:02:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3720s) Reevaluating Early Career Losses and Lifestyle Changes

Rogan questions whether losing his first two professional fights ultimately served as a blessing in disguise for Ewing. Rogan points out that many undefeated fighters—like Ewing's former opponent Malcolm Wellmaker—build massive hype around their perfect records and knockout streaks, making an eventual loss far more disruptive. Ewing strongly agrees, reflecting on how his undefeated 6-0 amateur run gave him a false sense of security and led to an undisciplined lifestyle.

Ewing reveals that during his early career, he was far from living like a dedicated athlete. After tearing his meniscus in college and feeling let down by his wrestling coach, Ewing turned to partying, drinking, smoking, and general delinquency—a stark contrast to his strictly religious, highly disciplined high school years where wrestling was his sole focus. He notes that experiencing those early professional setbacks forced him to eliminate negative habits and restructure his life. This overhaul laid the groundwork for his current ten-fight win streak.

- Ewing was 6-0 as an amateur before suffering back-to-back losses at the start of his professional career. - Early success masked poor lifestyle choices, including heavy partying and lack of training discipline. - Overhauling his personal habits directly enabled his current 10-fight winning streak.

[01:04:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3854s) College Wrestling, Injuries, and Personal Faith

Ewing details the turning point in his young adult life when he moved from Southern California to Bristol, Tennessee, at age 19 to wrestle in college. Being away from home for the first time presented major culture shock, which was compounded when he tore his meniscus during a dual meet. His coach dismissed the injury, telling him to "suck it up" and forcing him to play through the pain for the rest of the season.

Having previously achieved major athletic success—placing 8th in California state, 5th at national tournaments, and winning the US Open in his age division—the sudden physical limitation and lack of support left Ewing feeling completely abandoned. Feeling as though God had turned away from him, he began drinking and partying for the first time immediately after his college finals. Looking back as a mature adult, Ewing realizes that the hardship was a essential test of faith designed to build his character. Rogan concurs, emphasizing that early failure forces a person to rebuild their identity on a stronger foundation.

- **High School Achievements:** 8th place in California State wrestling, 5th at the national tournament, and US Open division champion. - **College Setback:** Suffered a right knee meniscus tear at age 19 while wrestling in Bristol, Tennessee. - **Perspective Shift:** Rebuilt his Christian faith, coming to view early setbacks as necessary character-building tests rather than abandonment.

[01:10:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4214s) Meniscus Surgery vs. Rehabilitation and Knee Recovery

Ewing recounts having an arthroscopic scope on his right knee to shave down his damaged lateral meniscus—a decision he now regrets. The surgical removal of tissue left a permanent void, causing the joint to occasionally catch and lock up during specific grappling movements like inverted triangle chokes. In his second professional fight, Ewing suffered another severe injury to the same lateral area when caught in an outside reap; despite fighting through the pain, his opponent transitioned to a heel hook, popping Ewing's ankle twice before forcing a tap. Instead of getting an MRI, Ewing rehabilitated the knee using knees-over-toes exercises and mobility work, finding that the un-operated knee ultimately recovered better than the scoped one.

Rogan agrees with avoiding knee scopes, referencing modern medical studies that indicate physical rehabilitation and non-surgical therapies often yield superior long-term outcomes compared to partial meniscectomies. Rogan shares his own struggle with a bucket-handle meniscus tear that used to lock his knee joint until he manually popped it back into place. Both advocate for conservative recovery methods, such as light-resistance stationary cycling to promote blood flow, targeted range-of-motion work, and regenerative treatments like stem cell therapy.

- **Surgical Complications:** Ewing's right knee lateral meniscus scope created a lasting mechanical issue where the joint catches during inverted grappling setups. - **Rehabilitation Strategy:** Ewing successfully recovered from a subsequent knee and ankle injury using knees-over-toes training and targeted strengthening without surgical intervention. - **Rogan's Advice:** Recommends high-repetition, low-resistance stationary cycling to circulate blood flow through knee tendons without excessive joint loading.

[01:14:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4464s) Poliquin Step-Downs and Backward Treadmill Walks

Ethyn Ewing and Joe Rogan dive deep into specialized knee rehab and joint longevity, addressing how compromise occurs in complex positions like a wizard (whizzer) or when the knee gets awkwardly popped. Rogan recommends Poliquin step-downs—named after legendary strength coach Charles Poliquin—as one of the absolute best exercises for knee stability and quad engagement. Performed either on an incline board or a simple stack of weight plates, the movement requires lowering oneself controlled on one leg just 10 inches or so.

``` [Elevated Step / Plates] | (Standing Leg) |---[Knee Extended] | v (Lowering Leg down 10") [Floor/Ground] ```

Rogan also champions backward walks, either pulling a light sled with a waist harness or walking backward on a turned-off treadmill using one's own legs to drive the belt. He notes this "knees over toes" protocol boosts blood flow and builds critical backward-pushing strength that most athletes neglect. Ewing adds a variation he uses with a resistance band anchored in front: stepping forward into a lunge with the knee over the toes and extending against the band's forward pull, which targets the knee joint similarly.

- **Poliquin Step-Down:** Performed on a step or incline board, lowering the non-working foot ~10 inches to train knee stability and patellar health. - **Backward Treadmill Push:** Walking backward on a manual or unpowered treadmill by pushing the belt with leg strength to build circulation and knee resilience. - **Backward Sled Pull:** Using a waist strap and light weights to drag a sled backward, prioritizing blood flow over heavy resistance. - **Front-Anchored Band Extension:** Lunging with the knee over the toe while a band pulls forward, forcing the quad and knee structure to extend under direct tension.

[01:17:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4634s) Lateral Movement, Band Work, and the Marinovich Method

Ewing discusses expanding his training beyond straight-line movements into lateral explosion and sand-based footwork to strengthen the side ligaments and stabilizing muscles. Rogan recalls how former UFC lightweight champion BJ Penn used unconventional resistance band training to develop freakish strength and flexibility from strange angles. Ewing references similar fascia-focused training used by fighters like Rafael dos Anjos.

Rogan explains that Rafael dos Anjos trained with Nick Curson, a pupil of Marv Marinovich. The Marinovich brothers’ methodology with BJ Penn during his peak was famously radical: assuming the fighter already possessed elite skills, they eliminated traditional fight sparring and focused almost entirely on grueling plyometrics and extreme conditioning. Though BJ hated the grueling process, it gave him an legendary gas tank that made him virtually unstoppable.

> "Their approach was, 'You already know how to fight, so forget about fight training. We're just going to give you the most insane gas tank you've ever had.'" — Joe Rogan

[01:18:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4727s) Merab Dvalishvili and the Mental Crucible of Wrestling Cardio

The conversation transitions into the nature of cardio and how certain athletes redefine human physical limits. Rogan points to UFC Bantamweight Champion Merab Dvalishvili as a prime example of superhuman endurance, breaking top-tier fighters under constant pressure, relentless takedowns, and unmatched wrestling stamina that takes years—not a single fight camp—to cultivate.

Ewing reflects on his own background as a high-level wrestler, agreeing that wrestling cardio is a unique, grueling energy system where muscles remain perpetually tensed and colliding. Rogan emphasizes that elite wrestlers entering MMA hold a massive psychological and physical edge because wrestling forces every athlete through an unavoidable "hell."

- **Cardio Foundations:** Wrestling cardio involves continuous anaerobic/aerobic strain, isometric muscle tension, and zero opportunities to rest compared to Jiu-Jitsu guard or striking range. - **The Wrestling Advantage:** Wrestlers develop unmatched mental toughness because there are no shortcuts to earned spots on a wrestling team; practices consist of intense grind, live wrestling, and finishing sprints. - **Fight Control:** High-level wrestling allows an MMA fighter to dictate exactly where the bout takes place—whether standing or on the canvas.

[01:23:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4995s) Point Karate, Savate, and Precision Toe Kicking

When discussing foundational styles for MMA, Ewing suggests combining wrestling with solid boxing, but Rogan offers a controversial alternative for young strikers: Point Karate. Point karate teaches specialized distance management and dynamic in-and-out blitzes. Rogan cites Michael "Venom" Page (MVP) and Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson as master practitioners whose movement leaves opponents entirely baffled—pointing out how MVP completely stumped veteran striker Kevin Holland.

``` [Point Karate Stance] (Wide, In-and-Out Blitzing) | +---> "Blitz & Evade" (Hard to locate/hit) | v [Opponent Stumped on Distance] ```

Ewing shares his interest in incorporating faster, snappy sidekicks into his game, drawing comparisons to Savate (French kickboxing). This leads to a discussion on body kicks: while traditional Muay Thai uses the shin or ball of the foot, some fighters—like Yoza—utilize toe kicks directly into the liver and solar plexus. However, Rogan and Ewing caution that striking with toes requires immense conditioning and extreme precision; catching an opponent's elbow can instantly break multiple toes.

> "With MVP, [Kevin Holland] was just stumped... 'What the fuck am I doing? I can't even touch this guy.' That is a giant skill set." — Joe Rogan

[01:25:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5151s) Devastating Foot Injuries and Massive Bantamweight Weight Cuts

Rogan brings up the horrific condition of Gregory "Robocop" Rodriguez's foot after his fight against Gregory "Fluffy" Hernandez, asking producer Jamie to pull up the picture from Instagram. Ewing and Rogan discuss how damaging toes on elbows severely compromises a fighter's ability to push through the remainder of a fight or transition into their next training camp. Ewing recounts snapping his own pinky toe completely sideways while running in his yard prior to a major wrestling camp.

The section wraps up with astonishment over how massive middleweights and bantamweights cut weight. Rogan expresses disbelief over how Gregory Rodriguez successfully cuts down to 185 lbs despite walking around at a shredded 220 lbs. Ewing notes that larger, muscular fighters have significantly more water weight to shed, referencing former bantamweight champion Aljamain Sterling, who used to walk around at 175 lbs before making the move up to featherweight (145 lbs) for a healthier, more sustainable cut.

- **Gregory Rodriguez's Foot:** Smashed toes from throwing body kicks into elbows, leaving severe bruising and foot distortion. - **Toe Fractures in Camp:** Ewing's anecdote of dislocating his toe sideways right before a high-intensity wrestling camp. - **Extreme Weight Cuts:** Fighters like Aljamain Sterling cutting from ~175 lbs down to 135 lbs, eventually necessitating a division move to 145 lbs for better performance and health.

Here is a detailed and faithful walkthrough of Part 7 of the episode.

---

[01:27:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5278s) Weight Cuts, "Weight Bullies," and the Science of Saunas

Ethyn Ewing laughs off comments on his Instagram calling him a "weight bully" and jokes about a comment telling him to "hire a nutritionist ASAP" after seeing a training photo where he looked a bit out of fight shape. While fans accuse fighters of ballooning in size, Ewing explains that most fighters cut a similar amount of weight relative to their division. Outside of camp when he is "full of food and being a delinquent," he can get as heavy as 175 to 178 lbs, but during fight week he prefers to start his cut around 150 lbs.

The two discuss how experience refines the weight-cutting process. Ewing recounts cutting 11 lbs in a single night cleanly, stressing that wisdom taught him not to blast the body with extreme heat. He utilizes portable infrared/red-light saunas (which max out around 150°F) wrapped in emergency thermal blankets. Crucially, Ewing incorporates cool-down periods with ice between sauna rounds. Rather than treating the cut like a sprint and maintaining constant sweat, he prioritizes keeping core body temperature down—arguing that dehydration is far easier for the human body to handle than overheating. Joe Rogan agrees, noting that overheating drains a fighter's central nervous system and ruins their recovery and performance for fight night compared to a controlled, lower-temperature cut.

- **Peak Off-Camp Weight:** 175–178 lbs. - **Fight Week Cut Starting Weight:** ~150 lbs. - **Recent Single-Night Cut:** 11 lbs done smoothly. - **Sauna Setup:** Portable sauna set to 150°F combined with sweet sweat, sauna suits, and emergency blankets, interspersed with ice breaks to lower core temperature.

---

[01:32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5520s) Analyzing Moses Itauma vs. Filip Hrgović: The Danger of Gas Tank Depletion

Rogan shifts the conversation to boxing, asking Ewing if he saw the recent title fight featuring young heavyweight prospect Moses Itauma against Croatian contender Filip Hrgović. Prior to this bout, the 21-year-old Itauma was hailed as the most promising heavyweight in over a decade, with commentators speculating he could break Mike Tyson's record as the youngest heavyweight champion in history. Itauma had blitzed through his previous competition—including stoppage wins over veterans like Dillian Whyte and Germaine Franklin—without ever being pushed into deep water or fighting through long, grueling rounds.

Against Hrgović, Itauma started fast, showcasing elite hand speed and technique. However, as the fight dragged past the mid-rounds into the eighth, Itauma blew out his gas tank trying to force a knockout rather than out-boxing his opponent. Hrgović weathered the storm and ultimately finished an exhausted Itauma, who was stumbling around the ring. Ewing and Rogan reflect on a face-to-face sit-down interview before the fight where Hrgović invoked a classic *Rocky* line—claiming fighting is about how many hits you can take and keep moving forward—which Itauma mocked as "the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Ewing points out the irony: while martial arts ideally revolves around technical finesse and "hit and don't get hit," sometimes raw toughness and grit overcome superior speed, making experience and pacing essential combat skills.

- **Moses Itauma:** 21-year-old heavyweight prodigy; boasted a string of early TKO victories prior to facing Hrgović. - **Filip Hrgović:** Veteran Croatian heavyweight who absorbed Itauma's early onslaught to win via late stoppage due to exhaustion.

---

[01:37:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5820s) UFC vs. Boxing Culture: Short-Notice Risks and Promotional Models

The conversation pivots to comparing how boxing and MMA handle fighter development and matchmaking. In boxing, promoters carefully build up prospects over dozens of padded fights before putting them against top-tier opponents. In contrast, MMA fighters are far more willing to accept high-risk, short-notice opportunities against world-class opposition—sometimes fighting for a world title in their very first UFC appearance if they have a decorated background in wrestling, kickboxing, or regional promotions.

Rogan explains that this cultural difference stems from the structural business models of the sports. In boxing, events are built around individual star fighters regardless of the promoter; a Canelo Álvarez fight happens whenever Canelo is ready. In the UFC, the brand dictates the schedule: the promotion books an arena in a city for a specific date and fills the card with whoever is available. This system pressures MMA fighters to seize short-notice opportunities to advance their careers, even if it risks their records.

- **Boxing Model:** Athlete-driven schedule; careful long-term record building across competing promotional bodies. - **UFC Model:** Brand-driven schedule; centralized management booking fixed event dates and offering rapid title opportunities to proven external talent.

---

[01:41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6060s) Samurai Philosophy and Hagakure

Rogan asks Ewing if he reads literature on psychology, strategy, or warrior philosophies like Miyamoto Musashi's *The Book of Five Rings*. Ewing shares that he is currently reading *Hagakure* (written by Yamamoto Tsunetomo), which was gifted to him by his boxing coach during a transitional period in his career.

Ewing explains the historical backdrop of the book: Tsunetomo was a samurai servant whose master passed away during a peaceful era when the samurai class was no longer needed for constant warfare, and ritual suicide (*seppuku*) was forbidden by decree. The text explores how a warrior should maintain a Bushido lifestyle, discipline, and purpose when there is no active battle to fight—a lesson Ewing directly applies to his life outside the octagon.

[01:42:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6141s) Samurai Mindsets, Screen Time, and the Impact of Social Media

Ethyn Ewing and Joe Rogan reflect on the books Ewing reads about samurai culture and ancient warriors, admiring how historical figures offer diverse perspectives on mindset and combat philosophy. Ewing notes that he likes sifting through these differing views to apply what works best for his own training and life. However, he admits to struggling with phone usage and screen time. While he consumes a lot of outdoor, hunting, spear fishing, and gun channels on YouTube, he is actively striving to be more present in the real world by reading more books instead of staring at screens.

Rogan draws a sharp distinction between YouTube and traditional social media, arguing that YouTube acts more as an educational tool and a way to wind down—such as watching ancient history documentaries or professional pool matches—without feeling like wasted time. In contrast, Ewing views social media as a business tool that requires careful management: he needs to produce content to build his platform without falling into the trap of consuming mindless short-form media. They both criticize short-form content for destroying attention spans and keeping dopamine firing continuously, which robs people of deep, meditative self-reflection.

- Ewing notes his favorite YouTube topics include fighting, gun channels, hiking, camping, hunting, and spear fishing. - Both agree that short-form media destroys attention spans, lowers focus, and prevents deep internal contemplation.

---

[01:45:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6340s) Shore Diving, Spear Fishing, and Bow Hunting vs. Rifle Hunting

The discussion turns to spear fishing, a hobby Ewing used to practice regularly off California's coast with a friend who has since moved to Washington. Ewing describes shore diving around Corona del Mar and hidden local beaches with plenty of underwater structure, as well as diving the kelp forests off Laguna Beach to grab lobsters by hand during lobster season. Rogan compares spear fishing to "hunting underwater," pointing out that choosing specific fish and diving into their habitat makes it feel far more interactive than traditional hook-and-line fishing.

This primitive aspect naturally leads to a comparison between bow hunting and rifle hunting. Ewing expresses a strong fascination with bow hunting over rifle hunting, noting that sitting hundreds of yards away with a high-powered rifle requires technical prowess, whereas stalking an animal down to 30 yards with a bow demands real physical skill, scent management, and stealth. Rogan—an avid bow hunter—agrees that while rifles are the most efficient way to secure meat, bow hunting requires immense preparation, practice, and mental discipline. Rogan recounts a pig hunt in California where, despite not shooting a rifle for almost two years, he easily dropped a wild pig at 90 yards—something that would be unthinkable with a bow without months of dedicated practice on form and execution.

- **Spear fishing spots mentioned:** Corona del Mar beaches and Laguna Beach kelp forests (for lobster hand-grabbing). - **Stalking distance:** Ewing highlights getting within roughly 30 yards of an animal when bow hunting compared to shooting at 500 yards with a rifle. - **Rogan's hunting example:** Easily took down a pig at 90 yards with a rifle after a two-year hiatus from rifle shooting, contrasting it with the strict daily regimen required to hunt with a bow.

---

[01:49:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6592s) Feral Swine Infestation and Eradication Methods

Ewing recounts hiking Mount Whitney in August 2025 as another example of his love for the outdoors. Rogan points out that California has a massive feral pig population, and Ewing shares that pig hunting is one of the few instances where he would gladly ride in a helicopter with a rifle to cull them due to the ecological destruction they cause. Rogan explains that the problem is even more severe in Texas, where millions of wild pigs tear up farms, destroy habitats, and reproduce up to two or three times a year.

Rogan describes walking through the woods on his hunting lease in Texas and hearing wild pigs fighting in the brush, sounding like "demons" or "monsters." Landowners and farmers across the country are forced to bring in outside hunters to manage the destruction. Rogan mentions a friend with a large ranch near Fort Worth who brought in a team of Navy SEALs to run tactical operations against the pigs as a training exercise. Due to the billions of dollars in agricultural damage pigs inflict annually, landowners employ aggressive eradication tactics, including exploding targets like Tannerite.

- **Mount Whitney:** Ewing backpacked Mount Whitney in August 2025. - **Reproduction rate:** Feral pigs can breed up to three times a year, producing multiple litters annually. - **Agricultural damage:** Wild pigs cause billions of dollars in crop and habitat damage every year across affected states. - **Eradication tactics:** Methods range from helicopter culling and military-style training operations to using Tannerite.

---

[01:52:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6763s) Feral Swine Distribution and the Biology of Pig Metamorphosis

Curious about how widespread the pig issue is across the United States, Rogan uses Perplexity to search for official statistics on feral swine populations. Before checking the results, Rogan guesses that 30 out of 50 states have documented feral pig populations. The search reveals that 35 states have documented feral swine presence, with the heaviest concentrations in the Southwest and Southeast, including Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina.

The conversation shifts to the biology and adaptability of pigs. Ewing and Rogan discuss how domestic farm pigs transform when they escape into the wild. Rogan explains that feral pigs are not a separate species from domestic pigs, but rather domestic animals that revert to a wild state. When farm pigs escape, they quickly adapt to foraging, become nocturnal, grow thicker hair and larger tusks, and undergo physical changes over time. Rogan checks Perplexity again to clarify the timeline of this transformation, noting that while behavioral feralization happens within weeks to months, dramatic morphological features develop over generations through natural selection and environmental pressure. They close the topic by referencing famous giant pig urban legends like "Hogzilla."

- **Perplexity query result:** 35 states have documented feral swine presence. - **Highest density states:** Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina. - **Behavioral shift:** Escaped domestic pigs adapt to feral survival, becoming nocturnal, elusive, and self-sufficient within weeks to months.

Here is a detailed, faithful walkthrough of this section of the transcript, capturing the facts, arguments, stories, and nuance of the conversation.

---

[01:56:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6985s) Massive Wild Hogs and Misleading Perspectives

Joe Rogan and Ethyn Ewing examine photos of legendary massive wild pigs, including "Hogzilla," debating whether the photographs rely on forced perspective. Ewing points out how photographers stand far behind the animals to make them look ten times larger than they actually are. However, Rogan brings up a photo of a hog hanging from a tractor, noting that regardless of perspective, some of these creatures grow to truly terrifying sizes. Rogan compares them to giant crocodiles in Africa that reach over 20 feet in length.

Looking through images on the screen, they dissect a 2004 photo of a reported 1,200-pound boar that was initially dismissed as a hoax. Rogan points out a British newspaper article mentioning a "36-stone" pig and asks Jaime to look up the largest wild hog ever recorded in Texas. Rogan guesses 500 pounds, but the documented record blows his estimate away: a 790-pound wild boar captured near De Leon in Comanche County, Texas, in January 2015 and weighed on certified mill scales. Rogan expresses disbelief at the sheer scale of the animal, marveling at how dangerous it would be if millions of nearly 800-pound pigs were roaming the American countryside.

- **Hogzilla Documentary:** Originating around 2004–2005, detailing famous massive boar sightings. - **Texas Record Wild Hog:** 790 lbs, captured near De Leon in Comanche County (January 2015), weighed on certified scales.

---

[02:00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7202s) Bow Hunting and Performance Archery

Ewing admits that while he has never been big-game hunting—only shooting birds with a pellet gun as a kid—he would love to go hunting for deer. When asked about his archery skills, Ewing shares that he regularly shoots a recurve bow rather than a compound bow and recently did quite well in an archery competition. Rogan strongly advises him against hunting with a recurve bow right away, warning that it requires immense experience and precision, and suggests he transition to a compound bow instead.

Since Ewing lives in Southern California, Rogan highly recommends he visit **Performance Archery** in San Diego, calling it one of the best archery shops in the country. Rogan explains how critical proper bow fitting is, using an example that he could never shoot Jon Jones’s bow because Jones’s draw length and peep sight alignment are tailored to his much taller frame. Drawing a parallel to martial arts, Rogan emphasizes the importance of learning proper archery mechanics from elite professionals right from the start so you don't have to unlearn bad habits later.

- **Shop Recommendation:** Performance Archery in San Diego, California (Rogan notes visiting it previously with archer John Dudley). - **Technique Parallel:** Bow fitting and form mimic martial arts—learning incorrect mechanics early makes them hard to unlearn later.

---

[02:02:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7347s) The Warrior Mindset and Self-Reliance

When Rogan asks if learning diverse skills is a deliberate strategy to enhance fight performance or just a hobby, Ewing explains that it comes down to personal enjoyment and a drive for self-reliance. Ewing describes how he makes his own Kydex and leather holsters at home and plans to rebuild an old truck from the ground up to learn mechanics. For him, being a true warrior extends far beyond hand-to-hand combat; it encompasses survival, perseverance, and being prepared "when the shit hits the fan."

Rogan agrees on the value of self-reliance, suggesting that growing a personal garden is another essential step to avoid eating food covered in pesticides and herbicides. Ewing shares his ultimate dream: while his wife loves Southern California, he wants to acquire a few acres of land in Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho. He envisions setting up a self-sustaining compound with crops, fishing in stocked rivers, and hunting on his own land alongside family and close friends to escape the daily hustle and bustle.

---

[02:04:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7481s) Training Gyms and the Legend of Erik Paulson

Rogan asks Ewing if he stays in California solely for his wife or if he keeps his training base there. Ewing clarifies that his main reason for staying is his fight team and coaches. He splits his training across several locations, including **The Den Training Center** in Yorba Linda and **CSW (Combat Submission Wrestling)** in Fullerton under legendary martial artist Erik Paulson. Rogan enthusiastically praises Paulson as an "OG" of the sport, and Ewing notes that his father, Ben Ewing, originally trained under Paulson as well.

The two reminisce about Paulson's fighting career, specifically his famous long ponytail during the early No-Holds-Barred era. Ewing tells the story of Paulson cutting his long locks after a bare-knuckle fight against Sean Sherk (or early rules fights), where his opponent continuously grabbed his ponytail to control him on the ground. Rogan brings up Royce Gracie pulling Kimo Leopoldo’s hair at UFC 3, arguing that long hair or loose fight shorts are huge liabilities in a fight. Rogan questions why modern fighters still choose loose shorts over spandex when opponents frequently grab them.

- **Ewing's Training Hubs:** The Den Training Center (Yorba Linda, CA) and CSW Fullerton (under Erik Paulson). - **Historical Reference:** Royce Gracie vs. Kimo Leopoldo at UFC 3 (hair pulling).

---

[02:06:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7596s) Early UFC Rules, Headbutts, and Forced Stand-Ups

Watching vintage footage of an early World Combat Championships (WCC) fight involving Erik Paulson, Rogan and Ewing marvel at the brutal early ruleset, which featured bare-knuckle striking, headbutts, and groin strikes. Rogan points out how terrifying high-level wrestlers like Mark Coleman were when headbutts were legal, as they could break an opponent's defense simply by smashing head-first from inside the guard.

They notice a 60-second "floor time countdown" clock on the WCC screen, forcing fighters to stand up if there was no submission or finish within a minute. Rogan strongly voices his hatred for referee stand-ups in modern MMA, arguing that if a fighter can hold someone down or pin them against the cage, they are winning the fight. In Rogan’s view, stand-ups should only occur as a penalty for explicit fouls, not to cater to impatient crowds.

> "I hate standups. I hate them. I hate them with all my heart. I don't think if in a five-minute round you should ever be stood up... If a guy can hold you down and you can't get up, if you don't like it and you can't get up, then he's winning, right?" — **Joe Rogan**

---

[02:09:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7742s) Renzo Gracie vs. Ben Spijkers at WCC

Rogan directs Jaime to pull up a classic WCC bout featuring Renzo Gracie against Dutch judoka Ben Spijkers. Rogan shares the wild backstory behind the fight: Spijkers had been harassing Renzo by calling his hotel room every ten minutes throughout the night to disrupt his sleep. Driven by vengeance, Renzo took Spijkers' back during the fight and repeatedly smashed him with brutal downward elbows to the back of the head from rear mount.

As they watch the finish, Rogan explains that fights like this were precisely why strikes to the back of the head were later outlawed. After forcing Spijkers to tap out, Renzo notoriously stepped on Spijkers' neck as he got up. Discussing elbow strikes in general, Ewing offers a fighter's perspective on the newly legalized 12-to-6 elbow rule, noting that while vertical elbows are good for slicing skin, traditional angled elbows actually allow a fighter to generate far more rotational power.

- **Bout:** Renzo Gracie vs. Ben Spijkers (World Combat Championships). - **Tactical Insight:** Ewing notes that angled/rotational elbows deliver far more force than strictly vertical 12-to-6 elbows, even though 12-to-6 elbows excel at cutting.

[02:10:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7838s) The Origin of the 12-to-6 Elbow Ban and Bizarre MMA Rule Experiments

Joe Rogan and Ethyn Ewing delve into the ridiculous origins of past mixed martial arts regulations, focusing specifically on the infamous ban on 12-to-6 elbows. Joe retells a classic story from legendary referee Big John McCarthy about athletic commission members watching early-morning ESPN karate breaking demonstrations. Commission officials saw martial artists smashing through stacks of bricks with vertical downward strikes and mistakenly concluded that a "12-to-6" elbow was a lethal strike that could kill a person inside the Octagon. Joe vents his frustration over the absurdity of banning vertical downward strikes while permitting angled or rotating strikes that generate far more rotational power.

The discussion shifts to oddball regional promotions attempting to differentiate themselves from early UFC events in the mid-1990s. Ewing highlights the World Combat Championship (WCC) from 1995, which featured split brackets separating grapplers and strikers. Grapplers were permitted 10-minute ground rounds, whereas striker-bracket bouts capped ground action at just two minutes and entirely outlawed submissions, with the intent of having the tournament bracket winners face off at the end. Joe notes how regional promotions continue attempting hybrid or striking-centric formats today, though he praises ONE Championship for successfully running distinct Muay Thai, kickboxing, and MMA fights under one banner.

- **Big John McCarthy's 12-to-6 Story**: Athletic commissions banned downward elbows after watching late-night ESPN martial arts demonstrations where practitioners chopped through concrete bricks. - **Biomechanical Reality**: Rotating the shoulders in a hook or swinging elbow path generates significantly more power than a straight downward vertical drop. - **World Combat Championship (WCC)**: A short-lived 1995 tournament that split fighters into grappler and striker brackets with differing rulesets and round lengths. - **UFC Rule Proposals**: Joe mentions he has repeatedly urged UFC President Dana White to incorporate striking-only matches on UFC cards to eliminate crowd boos during prolonged grappling exchanges. - **Historical Kickboxing Stigma**: Dana White's historical hesitation stems from the legacy of 1970s and '80s American PKA (Professional Karate Association) kickboxing, which banned leg kicks and failed to achieve mainstream boxing-level popularity despite stars like Rick Roufus.

---

[02:14:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8041s) Promoting Regional Talent, Mergers, and the Business of MMA

The conversation turns to the necessity of alternative MMA promotions to support the global talent pool. Joe notes the recent structural shifts across the landscape, such as the PFL (Professional Fighters League) merging with Bellator and partnering with Jake Paul’s Most Valuable Promotions (MVP) alongside major broadcast deals. They emphasize that the talent pool outside the UFC is exceptionally deep, packed with elite fighters from Russia, Brazil, and across the globe who simply lack a major American platform.

While Ewing expresses a fighter's desire to see cross-promotional "champion versus champion" super-fights, Joe frankly explains why the market leader will almost never agree to co-promotions. For the UFC, being the undisputed market brand—where "UFC" functions as a generic trademark for MMA much like "Q-tip" does for cotton swabs—means the potential downside of losing to an outside champion far outweighs any promotional benefit. Joe contends a cross-promotional event would only make financial sense if a competing entity built a brand and roster equal to the UFC, creating a massive pay-per-view spectacle akin to Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Manny Pacquiao.

- **Global Talent Depth**: Joe brings up high-level foreign competitors like Dagestani fighter Magomed Magomedkerimov, emphasizing how many elite martial artists exist outside the mainstream UFC radar. - **UFC Business Model**: The UFC avoids cross-promotion because a loss damages their dominant brand supremacy without adding proportional upside. - **Co-Promotion Threshold**: Cross-promotional fights require two historic crossover stars—at the level of a Conor McGregor—to make the financial split worth the operational risk.

---

[02:16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8190s) Assessing Conor McGregor's Career Trajectory and Physical Toll

Ewing and Rogan analyze Conor McGregor’s potential return to the Octagon and whether the former two-division champion can ever recapture his peak athletic performance. Joe highlights McGregor's legendary performance against Eddie Alvarez at UFC 205 in November 2016, describing Conor as being "in the Matrix" with his instantaneous counter-striking and flawless spatial distance management. However, Joe acknowledges the immense physical toll McGregor's body has endured over the past decade, including torn ACLs, blown-out menisci, and severe leg trauma.

Beyond the physical injuries, both speakers address the psychological challenges of returning to elite combat sports after acquiring immense wealth and living a lifestyle filled with luxury and partying. Ewing notes that early in his career, McGregor drew fans in through his philosophical, stoic, and hyper-focused approach to the "warrior lifestyle." Replicating that level of obsessive daily discipline becomes exponentially harder when a fighter no longer needs money to survive.

> "A guy like Conor is a special guy... To be there live when he was doing that against Eddie Alvarez, I was like, 'Good lord.' He was countering instantaneous with perfect precision. He was on fire."

- **Peak Conor McGregor Era**: December 2015 (knocking out Jose Aldo in 13 seconds at UFC 194) through November 2016 (stopping Eddie Alvarez at UFC 205). - **Physical Wear and Tear**: Multiple major knee injuries (torn ACLs and menisci) combined with a decade of aging and high-profile lifestyle changes drastically complicate a elite-level comeback. - **Ideal Comeback Matchup**: Joe and Ewing agree that a welterweight (170 lbs) fight against Michael Chandler makes the most structural sense, given their history coaching *The Ultimate Fighter* together.

---

[02:21:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8500s) Matchup Analysis: Chandler, Holloway, and the Evolution of Strikers

Evaluating potential opponents for McGregor, Joe warns against matchups at 170 pounds against natural, towering welterweights like Carlos Prates, Sean Brady, or Ian Machado Garry. They note that McGregor's natural physical frame is best suited for 155 pounds, but making a grueling weight cut at age 38 after years away from competition is unlikely.

Analyzing a potential rematch with Max Holloway, Joe notes that Holloway presents a nightmare stylistic matchup. Holloway’s strategy of relentless pressure and unmatched cardio volume poses an extreme threat to a fighter who hasn't completed a full training camp in years. In contrast, Michael Chandler represents an explosive, high-profile opponent who relies heavily on wild power shots rather than calculated distance management. They advise fighters like Chandler—and martial artists in general—to transition from relying purely on youthful athleticism to adopting a more measured, jab-heavy, tactical approach as they age.

- **Welterweight Size Disparity**: Modern 170-pounders walk around significantly larger than Conor McGregor, who looked physically undersized when sparring larger welterweights like Ian Machado Garry. - **Max Holloway's Strategy**: Holloway's pressure-heavy "drown them in late rounds" style makes him one of the most dangerous matchups for aging or returning fighters. - **Michael Chandler vs. Eddie Alvarez**: Joe recommends fans revisit Chandler's classic, back-and-forth wars against Eddie Alvarez in Bellator (from 2011 and 2013) to see Chandler's explosive physical prime. - **Aging Fighter Reality**: As explosive power and speed diminish with age (similar to elite boxers like Roy Jones Jr.), fighters must shift their reliance toward technical setup, defense, and high fight-IQ to remain effective.<Elicitation label="Explore the next section of the transcript walkthrough" query="Provide the next section of the transcript walkthrough (Part 11) using the same format and level of detail."/>

[02:24:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8654s) Striking Masterclass, Mauricio Ruffy, and Arman Tsarukyan

Joe and Ethyn analyze lightweight standout Mauricio Ruffy, marveling at his striking fluidness and artistic creativity inside the octagon. Ethyn highlights Ruffy's ability to pull off wild techniques in close quarters, such as landing crescent kicks when standing just inches away from his opponent, as well as seamless spinning backfists. They agree that on a pure striking level, very few fighters can match him unless they take him to the canvas.

The discussion shifts to Ruffy's upcoming matchup against Arman Tsarukyan. Joe notes that Tsarukyan is one of the premier wrestlers in the entire sport, making takedown defense and getting back up off the mat the ultimate litmus test for Ruffy. They also admire Tsarukyan's unique lifestyle and mindset. Despite growing up exceptionally wealthy and driving rented Lamborghinis to training sessions in Los Angeles, Tsarukyan fights with relentless grit, having pushed Islam Makhachev to one of the hardest fights of his career on short notice.

- Mauricio Ruffy is praised for his highly creative, "work of art" striking style and close-range kickboxing skills. - Ethyn points out that strikers in MMA do not need elite offensive wrestling, but they must possess a few reliable get-up escapes and sweep options to avoid being trapped on the bottom. - Arman Tsarukyan's ability to maintain top-tier fight hunger despite his wealthy background earns him the nickname "the UFC Bruce Wayne."

---

[02:28:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8903s) Ciryl Gane, Heavyweight Movement, and Psychological Pressure

Ethyn and Joe evaluate how elite strikers adapt after experiencing a harsh wake-up call on the ground, citing Ciryl Gane's evolution after being submitted by Jon Jones and out-grappled by Francis Ngannou. They emphasize that Gane's footwork and movement at heavyweight are unmatched, attributing his unique agility and direction-changing ability to his background in playing basketball and his karate/savate bounce style.

They also discuss how psychological pressure and trash talk can break an opponent before they even step into the cage. By getting opponents riled up and angry—much like Conor McGregor or Joaquin Buckley do—fighters force their rivals to enter the cage tense, tight, and seeking one big reckless shot rather than executing a technical game plan.

- Ciryl Gane is described as the gold standard for mobile heavyweights who hit without getting hit. - Travis Browne in his prime is mentioned as one of the few past heavyweights who exhibited similar light-footed agility. - Fighting angry strips away technique, ruins sleep, and makes fighters overly cautious or overly aggressive.

---

[02:32:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9139s) The Mental and Spiritual Dimensions of Fighting

Ethyn breaks down how he cultivates his own mental toughness and peace of mind, emphasizing that the psychological aspect of MMA must be trained like its own discipline. Rather than relying solely on sports psychologists, Ethyn draws deep spiritual and mental strength from his boxing coach, Dale Royal. Training out of Royal's garage and front yard, they spend extensive time discussing the gospel, philosophy, warrior psychology, and emotional regulation before even wrapping hands or warming up.

Ethyn credits his well-rounded corner team—including MMA legend Erik Paulson and the intensely motivating Ben Jones—for preparing him both mentally and physically for the hardships of combat. He stresses that the ultimate sign of mastery is remaining entirely unfazed when absorbing a hard shot, keeping the heart rate low, and continuing the game plan without giving in to the emotional urge to retaliate wildly. Joe closes out the interview by praising Ethyn's mindset and wishing him success in his upcoming UFC fights.

- Ethyn trains boxing in a front yard and garage with coach Dale Royal, combining boxing drills with recurve archery, leather working, and spiritual conversations. - Erik Paulson provides legendary veteran wisdom and mindset training, while Ben Jones brings high-intensity pressure in the gym corner. - Ethyn highlights that the best fighters do not let their heart rate spike or deviate from their game plan when hit cleanly.

## Notable quotes > [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1s) To watch guys go in there and just brawl it out and say let's see who can take more punches before the other guy drops is just silly to me... hit and not get hit and champions don't take return fire. — Ethyn Ewing

> [24:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1467s) That last cut to 45 was a nightmare. It was a horror show. And so when he got in there with Ilia and then you're fighting El Matador... you want to talk about technique, right? Technique and his striking, the smoothness and efficiency, and the one-punch go-night power. — Joe Rogan

> [33:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2013s) I was doing food eating championship training... killing double doubles and 3x3s. — Ethyn Ewing

> [01:17:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4634s) Their approach was, 'You already know how to fight, so forget about fight training. We're just going to give you the most insane gas tank you've ever had.' — Joe Rogan

> [01:23:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4995s) With MVP, [Kevin Holland] was just stumped... 'What the fuck am I doing? I can't even touch this guy.' That is a giant skill set. — Joe Rogan

> [02:06:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7596s) I hate standups. I hate them. I hate them with all my heart. I don't think if in a five-minute round you should ever be stood up... If a guy can hold you down and you can't get up, if you don't like it and you can't get up, then he's winning, right? — Joe Rogan

> [02:16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8190s) A guy like Conor is a special guy... To be there live when he was doing that against Eddie Alvarez, I was like, 'Good lord.' He was countering instantaneous with perfect precision. He was on fire. — Joe Rogan

## Mentioned A1 Combat, ADCC, Alexander Volkanovski, Ali AlQaisi, Aljamain Sterling, Amru Magomedov, Anderson Silva, Arman Tsarukyan, Asadula Imangazaliev, BJ Penn, Bellator, Ben Ewing, Ben Jones, Ben Spijkers, Big John McCarthy, BlueChew, Brigham Buhler, CSW, Cage Rage, Callum Bisping, Canelo Álvarez, Carlos Prates, Chad Mendes, Charles Oliveira, Charles Poliquin, Chris Leben, Chris Moutinho, Ciryl Gane, Conor McGregor, Dale Royal, Dana White, Dana White's Contender Series, Deontay Wilder, Dillian Whyte, Dricus du Plessis, ESPN, Eddie Alvarez, Eddie Bravo, Erik Paulson, Ethyn Ewing, Fedor Gorst, Filip Hrgović, Floyd Mayweather, Francis Ngannou, Germaine Franklin, Gordon Ryan, Gregory 'Fluffy' Hernandez, Gregory 'Robocop' Rodriguez, Ilia Topuria, Ian Machado Garry, Islam Makhachev, Israel Adesanya, Jaime, Jake Paul, Jamie Vernon, Joaquin Buckley, Joe Rogan, John Dudley, Jon Jones, Jonathan Haggerty, Jorge Rivera, José Aldo, Justin Gaethje, Kade Ruotolo, Kevin Holland, Khamzat Chimaev, Kimo Leopoldo, Lee Murray, Magomed Magomedkerimov, Malcolm Wellmaker, Marcelo Garcia, Mark Coleman, Marv Marinovich, Max Holloway, Merab Dvalishvili, Michael 'Venom' Page, Michael Chandler, Mike Tyson, Miyamoto Musashi, Moses Itauma, Most Valuable Promotions (MVP), Mauricio Ruffy, Nate Diaz, Nick Curson, ONE Championship, Oleksandr Usyk, PFL, Performance Archery, Perplexity, Petr Yan, Professional Karate Association (PKA), Rafael Estevam, Rafael dos Anjos, Renzo Gracie, Rick Roufus, Roman Puga, Roy Jones Jr., Royce Gracie, Rumble on the Rock, Sean Brady, Sean Sherk, Sean Strickland, Securitas depot robbery, Stephen 'Wonderboy' Thompson, Superpower, Teddy Atlas, The Den Training Center, The Ultimate Fighter, Tony Fryklund, Travis Browne, Tye Ruotolo, Tyson Fury, UFC, Urijah Faber, Vitor Belfort, Ways to Well, World Combat Championships (WCC), Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Yoza, Yukio Yoza, Yushin Okami

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q)

中文简报

UFC选手Ethyn Ewing摒弃激烈混战倡导技术型规避打法 Ethyn Ewing指出，激烈的混战对攻风格会缩短选手的职业生涯并造成长期的神经损伤，他强调真正的冠军级表现依托于空间控制与技术精准度。 UFC雏量级选手Ethyn Ewing与Joe Rogan共同剖析现代综合格斗的技术细节，强调相比过度暴力的对攻混战，规避伤害与战术擂台控制更为关键。Ewing回顾了自己从爱荷华式摔跤转向高水平站立打击的历程，详细讲述了近期临阵受命完成UFC首秀的经历，以及包括非手术膝伤康复和极限减重在内的身体恢复策略。对话还涉及广泛的话题，从MMA历史规则与联合推广商业模式，到武士哲学、弓箭狩猎以及击倒力量的力学机制。 Ethyn Ewing 认为单纯与对手互换伤害的乱战打法十分鲁莽，真正冠军级的格斗核心在于防守端对空间的绝对控制，并在打击对手的同时最大程度避免承受回击。 (0:01) Ewing 详细阐述了自己的技术演进，他将早年爱荷华风格摔跤的高压压迫感，与细腻的拳击技术及注重查漏补缺的实战对练相结合，实现了战术层面的成熟平衡。 (8:12) 一击必杀的极端重击力量往往取决于先天的肌肉附着点等解剖学构造，而缺乏单拳终结力的选手则可通过精妙的虚招设置与多角度输出，依靠伤害累积达成击倒。 (19:26) Ilia Topuria 在羽量级的统治展现了传统拳击基本功的价值，他凭借极具耐心的后足站架、严密的距离掌控和精准的刺拳陷阱建立优势，打破了 MMA 选手过度依赖大摆拳的通病。 (27:33) 遭受严重脑震荡或被击倒的选手需要数月的长期恢复期；过早重返高强度实战或仓促接赛会导致选手的身体机能与抗击打能力遭受长期的不可逆损害。 (30:30)

Reading summary

UFC fighter Ethyn Ewing and commentator Joe Rogan argue that sustained success in mixed martial arts depends on technical damage avoidance, rigorous physical rehabilitation, and structured personal discipline rather than relying on crowd-pleasing brawls or reckless activity. Prioritizing Spatial Control Over Disabling Brawls (5:43) Ewing and Rogan contend that treating combat sports as an exchange of trauma damages longevity, warning that crowd-pleasing, face-first brawls inevitably result in CTE and premature retirement. Highlighting bouts like Roman Puga's Contender Series war that sent both fighters to the hospital, Ewing characterizes such fights as 'educated street brawls' that stray from spatial control, head movement, and calculated angles. He and Rogan point to prime Israel Adesanya as an example of choreographing reactions and overloading an opponent's nervous system through distance management. While explosive one-punch knockout power—exemplified by heavyweight Deontay Wilder—can erase earlier rounds, Rogan and Ewing agree it often functions as a developmental trap that discourages technical mastery. Instead, they assert that deceptive feints and unexpected trajectories, rather than raw physical power, produce effective knockouts. Rogan identifies Max Holloway as a premier volume striker who breaks opponents down over time, illustrating that tactical positioning and deceptive angles outlast mere physical strength. Trauma Recovery, Burnout, and Short-Notice Risk (32:05) Rogan and Ewing criticize the practice of rushing back into competition after suffering head trauma. Rogan points to Alexander Volkanovski defending his title against Ilia Topuria just four months after a head-kick knockout loss to Islam Makhachev as a primary cautionary tale of inadequate recovery. Ewing notes that once an undefeated fighter suffers a severe loss, the psychological illusion of invincibility shatters, citing José Aldo’s post-reign career to illustrate the difficulty of recapturing peak aura and form. Conversely, Ewing’s acceptance of a UFC debut on 48 hours' notice against the 10-0 Malcolm Welmaker succeeded because he took virtually zero damage during a 90-second title knockout for A1 Combat just days prior. Rogan observes that the UFC's promotional structure—where the brand controls scheduled event dates and fills cards with available talent—rewards short-notice opportunism far more than the athlete-driven boxing model. However, both speakers warn that high activity risks severe burnout unless fighters honestly gauge their physical depletion. Joint Rehabilitation and Temperature-Controlled Weight Cuts (70:14) Ewing expresses regret over an earlier arthroscopic surgery that shaved his damaged lateral meniscus, stating the tissue loss created permanent joint catching during grappling scrambles. After suffering subsequent knee trauma, Ewing opted for conservative physical rehabilitation, noting that knees-over-toes conditioning and mobility exercises healed his un-operated joint more effectively than surgery. Rogan supports non-surgical alternatives, advocating Poliquin step-downs and backward treadmill walking to strengthen patellar health and restore blood flow. On weight management, Ewing rejects rapid, high-heat dehydration methods that drain the central nervous system. Walking around between 175 and 178 pounds off-camp, he enters fight week near 150 pounds and conducts sauna sessions using infrared units capped around 150°F wrapped in thermal blankets. Ewing prioritizes mandatory cooling intervals with ice between sweat rounds, asserting that lowering core temperature minimizes systemic fatigue because dehydration is far easier for the body to manage than overheating. Rogan contrasts this with Max Holloway's draining cut back to 145 pounds against Topuria after competing at 155 pounds. Warrior Philosophy, Self-Reliance, and Habit Restructuring (62:00) Ewing traces his current ten-fight winning streak to restructuring his daily habits following consecutive professional losses. After an undefeated 6-0 amateur run, a torn meniscus and collegiate disillusionment in Tennessee led him into drinking and partying. Ewing credits returning to Christian faith and accepting early failures as character development that exposed the risks of athletic overconfidence. Outside the gym, Ewing applies principles from Yamamoto Tsunetomo’s *Hagakure*—a text examining how samurai maintain discipline during peacetime—to fight camps and daily life. Ewing and Rogan criticize short-form social media for eroding focus, with Ewing deliberately limiting screen time in favor of self-reliant pursuits such as hand-crafting Kydex holsters, bow training, and long-term plans for a self-sustaining homestead. Ewing balances this mindset in training under veteran coach Erik Paulson and boxing trainer Dale Royal, who emphasizes mental grounding and philosophy before physical sparring. While Rogan and Ewing agree that disciplined finessing, self-reliance, and patience extend fighting careers, the centralized economics of modern MMA continue to incentivize high-risk brawls and rapid turnaround times. The program leaves unresolved whether future promotional business models will evolve to better protect athlete health, or if the burden of career longevity will remain entirely on the individual fighter's technical restraint.

精炼阅读摘要

UFC雏量级选手Ethyn Ewing与Joe Rogan探讨了现代综合格斗的竞技理念，主张以距离管理、技术精准度与自我克制替代换拳消耗，以实现职业生涯的长久发展。两人指出，无论是身体管理、规则演变还是心理建设，深层的智谋与自律才是顶尖格斗家立足的核心所在。技术防守与规避伤害的竞技哲学 (0:01) Ewing与Rogan强调，在八角笼内盲目硬碰硬换拳换取脑损伤是极其不明智的，真正的冠军必须追求击中对手而不被对手击中的技术控制力。Ewing以自己两日前临时接通知升重击败Malcolm Wellmaker的比赛为例，指出冷静的步法与空间控制远优于混乱的街斗式对轰。双方认为，大众观众虽容易被血腥互殴点燃情绪，但依赖肉身硬抗只会带来过早的职业生涯终结和严重的CTE后遗症；相反，如同巅峰期的Israel Adesanya一样，通过假动作、角度切换及中枢神经系统的超载来牵引对手，才是更可持续的精英比赛模式。体能储备、减重现实与伤病康复的科学在竞技生理学层面，体能与爆发力的分布往往受肌肉止点与运动模式影响。Rogan以Max Holloway和Merab Dvalishvili为例，指出均匀输出与摔跤磨砺所带来的持久心肺，往往比单纯依赖单发一击必杀的重击更能掌控漫长战局。针对严酷的降重过程，Ewing分享了自己非赛期体重可达175至178磅、赛前利用便携红外桑拿结合间歇冰敷控温排汗的策略，认为相较于高温过热对中枢神经的摧残，人体对脱水具备更好的耐受性。谈及严重创伤后的恢复周期时，双方指出像Alexander Volkanovski在被Islam Makhachev高扫KO后仅隔四个月便仓促迎战Ilia Topuria，极易导致不可挽回的溃败；同时，在关节软骨损伤的处理上，Ewing与Rogan均倾向于通过低阻力骑行、倒退走及Poliquin台阶下踏等保守力量康复，而非盲目接受半月板切除术。战术流派的交融与赛事规则机制 (43:04) 现代综合格斗经历了从早期的粗放风格到高度跨学科整合的跃迁。Rogan指出，如果将Ewing今日的技术置于《The Ultimate Fighter》第一季时代，其复合能力将犹如“外星人”一般超前；如今包括达吉斯坦选手在内，亦已普遍融合散打和泰拳踢击。关于打击细节，双方剖析了前踢直接打击面部、无预兆荷兰式低扫的力学破坏力，以及Point Karate（点数空手道）在进出距离控制上的特殊战术价值。在规则与商业模式上，他们回顾了昔日因误信劈砖展示而禁止垂直12-to-6肘击的历史荒谬，并对比了职业拳击围绕明星慢速培养战绩的模式与UFC基于品牌统御、频繁调用短通知替补的高压商业运转机制。武士精神、生活自律与外部世界的精神沉淀 (62:00) 在格斗技巧之外，Ewing详细阐述了个人心智的重构过程。在业余战绩6胜0负并经历大学半月板伤病及被教练放弃后，他曾一度陷入酗酒玩乐的放纵生活，直接导致职业生涯遭遇两连败；这段挫折促使他重新回归基督教信仰并重构生活自律，换来了后续的十连胜。他平时阅读山本常朝的《叶隐闻书》，体悟武士在和平年代如何保持专注与戒律，并刻意限制刷短视频以保护深度思考能力。通过在拳击教练Dale Royal的车库前院讨论哲学、在Erik Paulson门下研习缠斗，以及参与徒手潜水抓龙虾、反曲弓射箭与手工皮具制作，Ewing将野外自持力与内心平定融合为整体作战心态，确保即使在比赛遭受重击时也能维持平稳心率，不被情绪裹挟。本期对话展现了一位新一代UFC综合格斗选手的全面视角：顶尖竞技不仅是八角笼内的肢体对抗，更是一场融合了关节保护、体温生理管理、技术进化及心理克制的系统工程；如何在商业推广与观众嗜血偏好之间坚守规避伤害的技术底线，依然是格斗家维系长期竞技寿命的永恒课题。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 该内容由 YouTube 频道 PowerfulJRE 于 2026 年 9 月 3 日发布，为《JRE MMA Show》第 185 期节目。根据官方简介，主持人乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）邀请了征战于 UFC 雏量级的职业综合格斗新星伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）做客演播室展开对谈。 ## TL;DR 节目深入探讨了雏量级拳手的科学减重策略与核心体温控制，并对比了职业拳击与 UFC 在造星机制与排期运营上的本质分歧。两人细致拆解了摩西·伊陶马、康纳·麦格雷戈与迈克尔·钱德勒等拳手的战术短板与生涯困境，同时痛批早期赛事的荒唐规则与裁判强行叫起选手的做法。此外，尤因分享了受《叶隐闻书》启发对抗手机算法诱惑的心路历程，畅聊潜水刺鱼、复合弓狩猎与末日自给自足理想，最终归结于顶尖格斗家在极度对抗下收摄心神、冷酷处世的心智修行。 ## Atmosphere & style 对话洋溢着一种兼具老派硬汉格调与禅宗内省的硬核武道氛围。乔·罗根以资深从业者的犀利视角引出硬派战术话题，而年轻的尤因则展现出远超年龄的沉静哲学思辨与工匠心性。整场漫谈从残酷的八角笼血战自然延展至冰冷的海底潜猎与荒野生存，在畅快淋漓的行业吐槽与深沉内敛的心性修炼之间无缝切换，散发着沉稳、纯粹且充满力量感的武者气场。 ## Bulletin - [01:27:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5276s) 伊森·尤因与乔·罗根探讨减重哲学，指出盲目在极限高温桑拿硬扛极易引发核心体温过热并透支实战体能，应通过便携红外桑拿配合降温手段实施渐进式控重。 - [01:38:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5913s) 职业拳击采取以明星拳手为核心的造星排程模式，而UFC则以赛事品牌主导排期，促使格斗选手随时准备迎战硬茬与老将。 - [01:49:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6563s) 针对全美野猪泛滥危机，德州通过直升机航射、特种战术演练及爆炸物进行清除，并曾有经认证重达790磅的野生巨型公猪捕获纪录。 - [02:08:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7680s) 针对格斗比赛中的规则争议，罗根强烈反对裁判强行站立干预，并批评当年基于对劈砖表演误解而出台的12点到6点垂直肘击禁令缺乏力学依据。 ## Key takeaways - [01:27:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5276s) 盲目硬抗高温桑拿极易导致核心体温过热并透支能量，科学降温与精细化体重管理是保障称重后实战竞技状态的关键。 - [01:31:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5514s) 年轻重炮手摩西·伊陶马被赫尔戈维奇逆转终结，暴露出欠缺深水区硬仗经验以及体能分配不均的严重短板。 - [01:36:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5790s) 拳击界倾向于通过精心挑选对手堆砌战绩造星，而MMA则秉持无畏接战文化，由UFC品牌主导强硬匹配对手。 - [01:43:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6203s) 沉迷社交媒体短视频会导致无序多巴胺分泌并削弱专注力，真正的经验价值必须来自深潜打鱼等真实的物理世界行动。 - [01:46:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6389s) 复合弓狩猎对微小发力姿态与容错率要求极高，不可将缺乏长年练习的反曲弓贸然用于动物猎杀。 - [01:49:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6563s) 美国南部野猪繁殖泛滥造成数十亿美元经济损失，德州除航射外甚至动用军用爆炸物进行清理，野生巨兽纪录可达近800磅。 - [02:00:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7248s) 射箭与格斗的技术定型存在底层相通性，在极限紧张状态下人体必然退回至最初形成的习惯动作，因此规范基础动作至关重要。 - [02:08:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7680s) 罗根严厉抨击裁判人工叫起选手的做法，认为上位控制是格斗压制力的体现，人工干预严重背离了真实格斗的本质。 - [02:10:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7838s) 12点到6点垂直下砸肘击的禁令源于早年监管官员对劈砖表演的误解，从人体生物力学角度看，转体横向摆肘具有远超下砸的杀伤动能。 - [02:13:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8030s) UFC作为MMA的绝对统治品牌难以承担跨组织联合赛事的商业风险与品牌溢价，导致潜在的跨组织冠军战无法成行。 - [02:16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8190s) 康纳·麦格雷戈受多重严重伤病困扰且生活奢靡，在体格受限的次中量级面对顶级巨汉已难现巅峰禅意心境。 - [02:26:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8812s) 打击系选手在面对顶尖摔跤手时无需成为摔跤大师，核心在于练就极致的防摔意识与一两套快速下位脱困翻转技术。 - [02:28:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8903s) 西里尔·盖恩汲取失利教训后，利用过往篮球训练培养出的灵动步法与持续变向能力，重新定义了重量级选手的身法边界。 - [02:31:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9100s) 愤怒与复仇心理会破坏肌肉协调性并瓦解战术纪律，真正的顶级格斗家在承受重击后依然能保持冷酷心率与战术专注。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1s) “技巧教授”的诞生与惊艳的 UFC 首秀节目一开始，Joe Rogan 热情欢迎 UFC 雏量级选手 Ethyn Ewing 来到演播室，并注意到了他身上穿着的服饰。Ewing 身上穿着一件印有交叉格挡（cross guard）图案的 T 恤，正是他个人服装品牌“Professor Finesser”（技巧教授）的产品线之一。Ewing 表示自己目前正在逐步建立这个品牌并推出不同的标志，希望将这种格斗与生活哲学传递给大众。Rogan 对这个独特的绰号赞不绝口，认为它精准概括了 Ewing 极具巧劲与流畅感的比赛风格。随后两人将话题切入 Ewing 震撼人心的 UFC 首秀。在那场比赛中，Ewing 对阵的是备受瞩目的恐怖重炮手 Malcolm Wellmaker。Wellmaker 此前在白大拿挑战者系列赛（Dana White's Contender Series）中以一记干脆利落的平躺式击倒赢得了极高的热度，随后又接连终结了对手（包括 Chris Moutino）。然而面对这样一位气势汹汹的终结机器，在仅仅提前两天临时接通知、甚至跨越自身原本的雏量级升入羽量级应战的不利情况下，几乎默默无闻的 Ewing 却上演了一场惊艳全场的技战术展示。 Rogan 赞叹道，Ewing 在八角笼中展现出的那种超凡冷静、纯熟的技术和丝滑的移动令人难以置信，完全颠覆了以往无名选手面对强敌时的慌乱，甚至直言“这家伙与众不同”。Ewing 则回应称，这种追求极致技术的风格正是他深以为傲的特质，尤其是在深入钻研拳击击打技术后，他越来越反对那种毫无章法、比拼谁更能抗揍的鲁莽拼拳。在他看来，优秀的冠军讲究“击中对手而不被击中”，正如他所信奉的原则——“冠军从不承受还击”（Champions don't take return fire）。 - **品牌与外号**：Ethyn Ewing 的个人品牌及绰号为“Professor Finesser”（技巧教授），服装印有交叉防守图案。 - **首秀背景**：仅提前 2 天（two days notice）接替比赛，且升重至羽量级（featherweight），原本所在量级为雏量级（bantamweight）。 - **对手履历**：Malcolm Wellmaker 曾凭借在挑战者系列赛中的爆头 KO 席卷热度，并在 UFC 赛场连克包括 Chris Moutino 在内的对手。 --- ### [02:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=164s) 拼拳陷阱与职业生涯寿命之争谈及这种以技巧为主导的打法，Rogan 提到了长寿公式。他刚刚与同行的世界顶尖台球手 Fedor 交流过（顺便感谢了 Ways to Well 诊所的 Brigham 和团队），两人达成共识：无论是台球、高尔夫还是格斗，真正能走得长远的人都会深耕基础、客观审视并不断打磨自身技术。反观那些纯粹站定原地对轰的格斗者，虽然能瞬间点燃观众席换来狂热欢呼，但付出的代价是职业生涯断崖式缩短，结局往往凄惨无比。 Ewing 极其赞同这一观点，并直言不讳地指出格斗圈的现实残酷：很多拳手在早该退役时却依然登台，身边除了极少数真正的挚友，绝大多数教练以及赛事组织出于利益考虑，根本不会主动劝阻他们。每当在未来的对阵表上看到那些生涯暮年、满身创伤的老将再次面对年轻猛兽时，他心里都会感到心惊肉胆。Rogan 也强调，这种“面门朝前径直冲杀”的狂战士风格虽然极具观赏性，但对于选手个人而言其实是一个致命的陷阱。 Ewing 坦言，大众对血腥混乱场面的病态狂热有时令人感到沮丧。观众或许喜欢这种有如“有文化的街头斗殴”（educated street brawl）般的搏杀，但格斗艺术的真谛绝非如此。真正的武道是控制整场节奏的优美舞蹈，是通过刁钻的角度、头部移动与距离控制制造伤害，同时滴水不漏地全身而退。两人随后聊到了本周二挑战者系列赛上 Roman Puga 的恶战（Puga 与 Ewing 来自同一地区），尽管全场观众看得血脉贲张，但赛后双方拳手鼻青脸肿双双直接被送进医院，从同为格斗从业者的角度来看，这种杀敌一千自损八百的打法毫无未来可言。 --- ### [06:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=381s) 格斗是智者游戏：从爱荷华摔跤硬汉到节奏大师谈及如何以智取胜，Rogan 举了全盛时期“黑龙”伊斯利·阿迪萨亚（Israel Adesanya）的经典范例。当时的阿迪萨亚将击打做成了一门艺术：虚晃试探、读取神经反射、将其输入脑中“超级计算机”，然后精准诱导对手走向毁灭。两人一致认同，综合格斗本质上是“智者的游戏，而非莽汉的游戏”（a smart man's game, not a tough man's game）。Rogan 称赞 Ewing 在场上不断通过进出距离与连续防反来“超载对手的中枢神经系统”，这种极具脑力的风格才是年轻选手最该效仿的标杆，而不是等职业生涯暮年时留下一脸刀削般的伤疤和严重的慢性创伤性脑病（CTE）。 Ewing 随后敞开心扉，分享了自己从无脑施压到追求技巧的心路历程。他透露自己早期练习摔跤时，深受著名的“爱荷华风格”（Iowa style wrestling）熏陶——那种风格的精髓就是凶狠逼近、粗暴拍头（clubbing the head）、全力下压拖拽，纯靠令人窒息的体能施压来彻底摧毁对手的精神与肉体。但在转型综合格斗后，他深刻反省了那种蛮干的弊端，意识到自己在细腻的铺垫与流畅度上有所欠缺。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 格斗风格进化对比 accDescr: 展示从传统的爱荷华摔跤硬碰硬风格转变为技巧教授控场风格的演变历程 subgraph Phase1["早期风格：爱荷华摔跤模式"] A["高压冲脸 / 粗暴拍头"] --> B["纯靠肉体力量与体能对拼"] B --> C["缺乏细腻技术 / 神经紧绷耗损"] end subgraph Phase2["现行风格：技巧教授模式"] D["距离拉扯与角度转换"] --> E["拒绝硬碰硬身体对抗"] E --> F["维持低心率 / 纯智力主导控场"] end Phase1 -.->|"打磨反思与技术转型"| Phase2 ``` 如今的 Ewing 已经彻底收敛并摒弃了单纯依靠肉体搏杀的习惯。面对擂台上那些试图推搡、强行加快节奏打肉搏战的对手，他完全拒绝陷入这种蛮力绞杀，而是选择用灵活的步法游走、急速的打击和精准的变线来掌控局面。正如他总结的那样，在擂台上他唯一的目标是从头到尾操控整场舞蹈，并尽可能将自己的心率保持在最低水平。 ### [09:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=557s) 寻找技术与强度的平衡点：放下拳馆里的自尊心伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）深入剖析了自己在比赛风格上的心智进阶与技术平衡。他解释道，自己追求的是既能精准命中对手，又能迅速拉开距离、掌控全场节奏，在安全距离内从容呼吸、观察局势并做出应对。在休赛了一段时间后，他的认知提升到了全新的维度。过去他曾经在两种极端之间摇摆：最初他打得太像典型的“爱荷华风格”（Iowa style），充斥着纯粹的身体对抗而缺乏细腻技巧；随后他又矫枉过正，过分沉迷于炫技和身法，试图模仿穆罕默德·阿里（Muhammad Ali）的滑步和轻巧刺拳，极力避免陷入肉搏。如今，尤因找到了二者之间的黄金分割点。他学会在训练馆里彻底放下自尊心（ego）——不再强求每一个动作都要展现出无懈可击的美感，即便在激烈的身体拼抢中被对手打中或是姿态狼狈，也不会再纠结于“必须看起来完美”。现在的他打得更加果决直接，减少了迟疑，击打更加精准，同时保留了骨子里的技术底色。他坦言自己绝不会变成在笼内盲目大乱斗的莽夫，但也绝不退缩，达到了心境与战术上的从容。 - **打法演进阶段**： 1. 爱荷华式纯蛮力碰撞（欠缺技巧）； 2. 极度追求身法与技术的“蝴蝶步”躲闪（抗拒身体肉搏）； 3. 放下自尊心后的中庸之道（兼具身体对抗、决断力与细腻技术）。 ### [10:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=646s) 格斗选手的持续进化与训练的本质乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）对尤因的领悟深表赞同，指出这正是综合格斗（MMA）最迷人之处。与许多其他职业体育运动不同——很多常规运动员在进入职业联盟时就已经达到巅峰，后续上升空间有限——而在 MMA 领域，一名选手在进入 UFC 后的四到五年里，随着比赛场次、经验与自信心的积累，只要拥有优秀的管理团队和教练体系，其实力往往会发生天翻地覆的飞跃。两人着重探讨了“在拳馆里放下虚荣心”的至关重要性。罗根强调，日常训练的核心是学习和暴露弱点，而不是去“赢得每一次实战”。许多选手之所以停滞不前，是因为心魔作祟：他们无法接受在对练中被队友压制，害怕给对方留下“能轻易收拾自己”的印象，于是总是拼命用自己最擅长的招式还击。然而，真正的成长恰恰在于主动将自己置于最不舒适、最别扭的劣势局面中去打磨，直到把弱项变成常规武器。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 格斗选手的认知与训练思维对比 accDescr: 对比错误训练心态与高效进化心态的路径差异 subgraph WrongMindset ["错误认知：维护虚荣"] A1["过分看重实战输赢"] --> A2["依赖固有强项压制对手"] A2 --> A3["回避不舒适的弱势体位"] A3 --> A4["技术陷入停滞与瓶颈"] end subgraph GrowthMindset ["正确认知：杀绝虚荣"] B1["明确训练是学习过程"] --> B2["主动置身薄弱与危险处境"] B2 --> B3["克服技术盲区与心理恐惧"] B3 --> B4["赛场真实战斗力全面跃升"] end ``` ### [12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=725s) 缠斗狂人鲁托洛兄弟与混乱中的艺术话题随即转向了当代柔术界最具破坏力的双胞胎兄弟——凯德·鲁托洛与泰·鲁托洛（Kade and Tye Ruotolo）。尤因提到，鲁托洛兄弟目前正在埃里克·保尔森（Erik Paulson）的 CSW（Combat Submission Wrestling）拳馆一同训练。罗根与尤因对这兄弟俩推崇备至，称他们为“世界上最优秀的缠斗大师”，其比赛观赏性足以将柔术推向大众主流视野。他们的柔术风格极其狂暴、充满动能且极度致命，仿佛一条由高技术构筑的通往对手颈部的单行道。兄弟俩天生拥有一双“猩猩般的超长手臂”，这让他们几乎能在任何不可思议的角度锁死达斯绞（D'Arce choke）。罗根指出，长臂在缠斗和综合格斗中是巨大的天赋优势，就像霍杰·格雷西（Roger Gracie）或是坎扎特·奇马耶夫（Khamzat Chimaev）那样，长肢体总能带来不可思议的控制力。更令人惊叹的是鲁托洛兄弟在混战（scrambles）中的统治力：他们并不规避混乱，反而主动制造混乱并在其中如鱼得水。两人在比赛中上演过各种天马行空的动作，甚至像 WWE 摔角手一样借着笼网或围绳的反弹力飞身冲出，下潜完成双腿摔。目前兄弟俩都在 ONE 冠军赛（ONE Championship）开启了 MMA 生涯，尤因认为虽然他们的站立打击技术目前还比较稚嫩，但他们与生俱来的超长臂展、顶尖运动天赋以及对距离把控的深度理解，让他们在综合格斗的未来无可限量。 - **鲁托洛兄弟的战术特质**： - **动态绞杀**：全场不间断威胁对手颈部，极擅长在混战中突然布置达斯绞； - **混战制造者**：主动利用飞身跳跃、反弹围绳等极具爆发力的动作打破常规阵地防守； - **身体天赋**：超长臂展配合顶尖柔术底子，极大弥补了站立转型的初期生涩。 ### [14:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=873s) 药罐子林立的柔术界与戈登·瑞安的纯技术实力罗根特别提到，鲁托洛兄弟最难能可贵的一点在于他们是“纯天然（Natural）”选手，这在当今的无道服柔术界堪称凤毛麟角。罗根直接调侃道，现代降服缠斗界几乎是一项“强化药物运动”（enhanced sport），大多数顶级精英选手都在大肆摄入各种“巴西补剂”（Brazilian supplements）。尤因也附和表示这在圈内基本是公开的秘密，因为像阿布扎比 ADCC 这样的顶级赛事根本不进行严格药检，选手们全都在“上强度”。罗根随即提到了戈登·瑞安（Gordon Ryan）。虽然瑞安从不避讳自己使用违禁药物（PEDs），甚至坦荡直言“既然人人都在用，我要成为世界最强为什么不用？”，但罗根与尤因一致认为，绝不能将瑞安的成就简单归咎于类固醇。因为瑞安在年轻、体格瘦小且完全纯天然的时期，就已经在各大赛事中横扫世界冠军了。他在柔术技术层面的精细度、战术理解与造诣是毋庸置疑的天花板级别。在全员用药的竞技环境下，不摄入药物往往意味着要背负巨大的力量赤字。 ### [16:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=964s) 技术化解力量，以及重炮手的一力降十会面对体格或力量上的劣势，尤因分享了自己的破局哲学：极高精度的技术本身就是伟大的平衡器。如果技术造诣远超对手，完全可以在很大程度上抹平力量与体型的鸿沟。然而，格斗场上永远存在另一种极端的恐怖存在——拥有“一拳定音”能力（one-hitter quitter）的重炮手。这类选手即便技术粗糙，即便在前两个回合被对手全方位吊打，只要在第三回合轰出一记重拳将对手彻底打昏，观众就会忘记之前的一切，所有的技术劣势瞬间被一笔勾销。罗根总结道，那些真正令人生畏的魔鬼，是先拥有了毁天灭地的纯天然力量，随后又打磨出细腻技术的人。不过现实中这种情况极其罕见，因为“天赋与重拳往往也是一种诅咒”——拥有毁灭性重拳或过人天赋的选手往往在拳馆里疏于苦练，过度依赖天生神力，从而永远无法建立起扎实的基本功。罗根举了前重量级世界拳王德昂泰·维尔德（Deontay Wilder）作为典型案例。维尔德身材并不算庞大，却拥有拳击重量级历史上最可怕的单拳终结力。著名教练泰迪·阿特拉斯（Teddy Atlas）曾给出过最精辟的评价：维尔德的重拳就是“伟大的橡皮擦”（the great eraser），他在场上犯下的任何技术错误，都能被这一记重拳瞬间擦除。最后罗根不禁感慨：“你能想象如果维尔德能像泰森·富里（Tyson Fury）那样灵动走位和精湛打拳，该有多么恐怖吗？” ### [18:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1091s) 毁灭性力量与打击的艺术：看不见的重拳最具杀伤力 Joe Rogan 与 Ethyn Ewing 探讨了格斗选手中那种令人胆寒的原始重击力量。Rogan 感叹，如果重量级怪兽能拥有像 Oleksandr Usyk 那样神乎其技的步法与移动，那整个量级就彻底宣判终结了，因为当今拳坛除了 Usyk 本人，根本没人能像他那样移动。而像 Francis Ngannou 这种具备一击必杀特质的选手，往往一拳命中就能把对手直接轰进另一个维度。Ewing 对此深表赞同，认为这种绝对的重击爆发力在很大程度上属于天赋的赐予。他回忆起著名教练 Firas Zahabi 曾对 Conor McGregor 身体结构的分析——肌肉与肌腱附着点的长短差异，往往决定了一名选手是具备天生摧毁性的爆发力，还是在体能耐力上更具优势；后天固然可以提升力量，但顶级的爆破力本质上依然是老天赏饭吃。话锋一转，Ewing 指出打击技术的核心并不完全依赖于纯粹的重击。“真正能把人直接打晕的，往往是你根本没有预料到、看不见的那一记暗拳（the shot you don't see coming）。”如果一位选手善于利用假动作欺骗对手、破坏防守节奏，并从对手视野的盲区切入，那么即便不具备绝对的力量优势，同样能抹平体能天赋上的差距，轰出震撼全场的击倒（KO）。 - **力量与肌肉结构的生理机制**：Firas Zahabi 指出，肌肉附着点（muscle insertion points）的生理构造决定了选手是偏向瞬间爆发还是偏向持久心肺。 - **KO 的底层原理**：视觉未捕捉到的打击会使防守者无法做出本能的颈部和面部肌肉收紧，极易造成脑震荡与直接击昏。 --- ### [20:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1243s) 体能消耗与耐力迷思：McGregor、Aldo 与 Holloway 的视角碰撞 Rogan 举例指出，许多达成惊人 KO 战绩的顶级拳手其实并不具备“一拳打死人”的绝对力量，Max Holloway 就是典型代表。Holloway 的击倒绝大多数源自持续不断的累积伤害，而非一击致命。Holloway 曾公开谈论过 Conor McGregor 与 José Aldo 等重炮手，认为他们往往因为追求极致的速度与爆炸力而更容易在后期体能下滑，毕竟倾尽全力迅速缩短距离并轰出“核弹级大拳”的能量消耗极其巨大，全场比赛也就能挥出有限的几记。然而，Ewing 对 Holloway 的这一视角提出了独到的见解。他认为 Holloway 与 Conor 的首次交手发生在 Conor 尚处新秀崛起、甚至还未完全步入巅峰的早期阶段，当时年仅 20 岁的 Holloway 也是青涩稚嫩，两人的心境与战力与后来截然不同。Ewing 回顾了 Conor 在 145 磅羽量级的表现：当年在对阵顶级摔跤手 Chad Mendes 时，Conor 经受了大量地面缠斗摔倒与重击洗礼，却始终保持着冷静从容，重回站立后体能未见崩溃；直到跨级进入次中量级与 Nate Diaz 二番战时，Conor 才在笼内疲于周旋并陷入明显的体能危机。Ewing 认为，一旦脱离严格的减重周期，训练强度、自律要求与饮食习惯的改变都可能直接削弱选手的心肺状态。谈到 José Aldo 时，Ewing 更是直言这位统治羽量级长达 10 年的前王者几乎从不在比赛中出现明显的力竭态，因此 Holloway 对这两人的体能评价或许带有个人交手时间节点的局限性。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: MMA 体能与爆发力消耗影响因素 accDescr: 展示选手的输出模式、精神状态与量级体重如何共同决定耐力表现 subgraph OutputStyle["输出风格差异"] A["瞬间爆炸力 / 重炮轰炸 (Conor, Aldo)"] -->|"高能量消耗"| B["爆发力不可持续 后期体能容易见底"] C["高频率持续压迫 / 累积伤害 (Max Holloway)"] -->|"平滑配速"| D["体能维持 5 回合 越到后期优势越大"] end subgraph StateControl["心智与生理调节"] E["身体僵硬、盲目全力击打"] -->|"加速乳酸堆积"| F["过早力竭"] G["放松敏捷、节奏明快 (Snappy)"] -->|"高能效输出"| H["力量与耐力兼顾"] end subgraph ExternalFactors["外部变量"] I["升重 / 减重幅度剧变"] --> J["饮食自律性与营期改变"] J --> B end ``` --- ### [23:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1423s) 擂台节奏大师：Holloway 的高能输出与顶级营期探讨到综合格斗中的“心肺耐力”本质，两人一致认为这绝不仅是跑步机上的肺活量数据，更取决于擂台上的冷静心态。正如打手靶训练一样，如果全身肌肉紧绷、每一击都恨不得杀死靶师，体能很快就会被烧光；反之，若能保持松弛与快速弹打（snappy），不仅能打出更具穿透力的杀伤，还能最大化提升能量效率。Rogan 强调，José Aldo 在全盛时期几乎扮演着不可阻挡的“铁锤”角色，他的爆发力、速度以及在对阵 Urijah Faber 时展现出的摧毁性低扫腿，让绝大多数对手早就崩溃认输；但彼时 Aldo 极少处于防守与逆境的“钉子”位置，因而无需在劣势下过度压榨心肺。相比之下，Holloway 的独门绝技在于对“油门控制”的敏锐感知。他极度擅长阅读对手的微表情与呼吸状态——一旦发现对手嘴唇微张大口喘气、脚步动作变变形，他便会层层加码，缓慢但不可逆地拉高施压频率。夏威夷训练营赋予了他近乎非人的有氧储备，使他在与 Justin Gaethje 的五回合残酷血战中，打到最后一分钟依然保持着与第一回合完全一致的恐怖节奏。Ewing 补充道，格斗选手的日常跑道训练之所以采用“直道全力冲刺、弯道慢跑调整”的高强度间歇模式，就是因为擂台上永远没有彻底停下的休息时刻；长期的针对性训练已经让 Holloway 的身体重构为一台天生适配高频输出的永动机。 - **Urijah Faber 的硬汉意志**：即便被 Aldo 的低扫腿踢到双腿变形，Faber 仍战斗至最后一秒从未退缩。 - **擂台休息的智慧**：真正的顶尖选手懂得在移动与缠斗缝隙中主动调整呼吸，实现边打边恢复。 --- ### [25:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1551s) Topuria 的降维打击：从轻量级回降的代价与恐怖一击话题转向即将在复出战中面对高强度考验的 McGregor。Rogan 感到不可思议的是，Conor 在整整离开赛场五年之后，复出居然敢直接面对 Holloway 这种从不掉速、始终处于巅峰竞技状态的高频率收割机。回顾 Holloway 的战绩，唯一能在八角笼内终结他的正是羽量级新王 Ilia Topuria。 Rogan 深入剖析了 Holloway 在对阵 Topuria 时遭遇的困境：为了与 Justin Gaethje 打 155 磅轻量级比赛，Holloway 花费了极长时间增加肌肉与骨架维度，身体已经适应了更大维度的体格；而随后再度极限减重回降至 145 磅羽量级，无异于对身体的自我透支。这次极其痛苦、甚至称得上“噩梦与恐怖片”的减重过程极大地削弱了 Holloway 的抗击打能力与身体机能。当他在身体虚弱的状态下遇上外号“斗牛士”的 Topuria 时，Topuria 展现出的打击技术、流畅度、能效比以及令人窒息的“一拳熄灯（go-night power）”爆发力，展现出了绝对的致命性。Rogan 惊叹，Topuria 不仅能在羽量级摧枯拉朽，即便面对体型庞大的 Charles Oliveira 或是肌肉粗壮的 Gaethje，Topuria 那种超越体型极限的毁灭性打击力量依然令人不寒而栗。 - **量级来回波动的伤害**：从增肌适应 155 磅到骤降回 145 磅，骨骼肌流失与严重脱水直接剥夺了选手的深层耐受力与抗击打下巴。 - **Ilia Topuria 的体格反差**：虽然站在轻量级大号拳手（如 Gaethje）身旁显得体格偏小，但 Topuria 凭借精准的传导技术与瞬间穿透力，具备跨量级击垮对手的重炮水准。 ### [27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1650s) 站立打击技术对比：泰拳拳击与综合格斗的距离掌控 Ethyn Ewing 与 Joe Rogan 探讨了站立选手的技术与力量结合。Ethyn 强调真正的顶级选手不仅要具备毁灭性的打击力量，更需要沉着冷静的心理素质。作为 MMA 选手，他经常将纯泰拳与职业拳击的技术逻辑与综合格斗进行对比。在 MMA 擂台中，选手的站立打击会时刻受到防摔威胁的制约——如果面对一名抱摔能力极强但站立平庸的摔跤手，站立型选手往往因为过度担忧被拖入地面而动作变形，原有的打击优势荡然无存；一旦出拳蓄力过猛，反而极易被对手下潜抄双腿抱摔（Double-Leg Takedown）。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: MMA打击与防摔博弈 accDescr: 展示站立选手在防摔威胁下的打击技术变形与拳击手的技术差异 subgraph MMA_Dynamic ["综合格斗环境"] WrestlerThreat["强力摔跤威胁"] --> HeavyStrike["过度蓄力/顾虑被摔"] HeavyStrike --> TakedownRisk["被下潜抱摔 (Double Leg)"] HeavyStrike --> StrikeDiminish["站立技术变形/发挥受限"] end subgraph Boxing_Comparison ["职业拳击环境"] BoxerTactics["前一两回合试探与收集数据"] --> DistanceControl["精准距离控制与刺拳铺垫"] DistanceControl --> HeavyBlows["制造陷阱并释放重击"] end ``` 谈及对距离控制与技术细节的极致追求，Ethyn 认为传统职业拳手在开局阶段更注重试探、收集对手数据并布置陷阱，这种节奏在 MMA 中相对少见。他特别指出了目前 UFC 及 MMA 选手中普遍存在的短板：许多选手极度依赖大幅度的迎击大摆拳（Overhand Right），却忽视了最基础、最关键的前手刺拳（Jab）。不过也有例外，比如伊利亚·托普里亚（Ilia Topuria），他身材相对较矮，但重心后坐稳健，善于用高质量的刺拳掌握距离并铺垫时机，进而释放毁灭性的重拳。 - 站立选手若在 MMA 中只顾蓄力挥大拳，极易被对手抓迎击下潜抄双腿抱摔拖入地面。 - 职业拳击手通常会利用前一至两回合进行慢节奏试探、读取防守数据并设置陷阱。 - MMA 赛场上最令人沮丧的现象之一是选手忽视双手武器的刺拳铺垫，过度依赖后手大摆拳。 --- ### [30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1800s) 遭受重创后的康复困境与心理防线话题转向了在一场惨烈对决中遭受重创的选手（此前与贾斯汀·盖奇/Justin Gaethje 激烈交锋并导致双侧眼眶骨折、回合间被叫停比赛的经历）。Joe Rogan 感慨，面对拳头硬得像带石头的重炮手，承受如此巨大的面部创伤需要极其漫长的康复期。这场对决发生在 6 月，而当时录制播客的时间已是 8 月 31 日，尽管已过去两个月，但伤者可能至少需要六个月以上才能重新恢复实战对练（Sparring）。 Ethyn 指出，肉体创伤之外，职业生涯全胜、从未尝过败绩的选手所面临的心理崩塌往往更为致命。许多保持无敌神话的拳手一旦跌落神坛，心态就再也回不到从前，何塞·奥尔多（José Aldo）就是典型先例——虽然奥尔多复出后依旧英勇，却失去了往日那种“不可触碰”的绝对统治气场。选手要重返巅峰，必须具备无坚不摧的心理韧性，说服自己一场惨败并不能改变自身的强大本质。 - 伤者在该场恶战中遭遇两处眼眶骨折（Two Fractured Orbitals），比赛因伤势过重在回合间被医管叫停。 - 严酷的面部骨折伤害至少需要六个月的静养愈合，在此之前完全不能进行任何头部接触的实战对练。 - 全胜选手在神话破灭后面临严峻的心态考验，若无坚不可摧的意志力，极易彻底丧失以往的自信与威慑力。 --- ### [31:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1899s) 冒进复出的教训：沃尔卡诺夫斯基与冠军休养期 Joe Rogan 强调，职业拳手的生涯中能够承受这般惨烈血战的次数屈指可数，复出步调稍有不慎便会毁掉整个生涯。历史上无数伟大的拳手都犯过急于复出的致命错误，最鲜明的例子就是被广泛视为史上最伟大羽量级选手之一的亚历山大·沃尔卡诺夫斯基（Alexander Volkanovski）。在对阵伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）的二番战中，沃尔卡诺夫斯基在毫无系统训练营准备的情况下临时替补接战，惨遭高扫爆头 KO。令人难以置信的是，在遭遇如此沉重的脑震荡昏迷后仅仅过了四个月，沃尔卡诺夫斯基便急匆匆走上擂台，面对羽量级最具杀伤力的新星伊利亚·托普里亚。Joe 直言，沃尔卡诺夫斯基当初根本就不该在毫无备战状态下接受马哈切夫的比赛——当时他正和朋友喝酒吃炸鱼薯条，身材松垮、完全脱离了竞技体态。正规的八到十二周高强度训练营不仅塑造肌肉与体能，更构建起严谨的战术心态，脱离这一基石仓促接战无异于自毁。 - 沃尔卡诺夫斯基在短通知替补迎战马哈切夫前处于完全休假状态，肌肉线条与体能储备明显下滑。 - 遭遇头部爆头高扫被击倒后仅隔四个月，沃尔卡诺夫斯基便仓促复出对决危险挑战者托普里亚。 - 经历重大打击伤害后急于回归，是顶级拳手在职业生涯中反复犯下且代价沉重的战略失误。 --- ### [33:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2005s) 48小时紧急替补：背靠背作战的心理与状态红利 Joe 随后将话题转到 Ethyn Ewing 自身，询问他在仅提前两天接通知对阵不败新星马尔科姆·威尔梅克（Malcolm Wellmaker）时究竟处于何种状态。Ethyn 开玩笑称自己当时正在参加“大胃王挑战”，大吃 In-N-Out 汉堡（Double-Double 和 3x3）。但实际情况是，他一整年都保持着严苛训练状态，并在打威尔梅克的前一个周末（11 月 7 日）刚在 A1 Combat 的冠军战中首回合仅用 1 分 30 秒便 KO 终结对手。夺冠后他原本打算在赌场放松一周，只做了一次跑步和轻接触对练，便接到了来自麦迪逊广场花园（MSG）对阵 10 胜 0 负强敌的 48 小时紧急征召。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 频繁备战带来的临场心理优势 accDescr: 展示紧密赛程与长期停赛对选手登场心理状态的差异对比 subgraph Active_Flow ["紧密赛程优势 (Ethyn)"] FightA["刚经历降重与出场"] --> OctagonFlow["八角笼适应度与神经紧绷感犹存"] OctagonFlow --> HighReadiness["临场应激自如/发挥稳定"] end subgraph Inactive_Flow ["长期休战弊端 (康纳示例)"] LongLayoff["数年未曾登台实战"] --> RingRust["擂台生疏感 (Ring Rust)"] RingRust --> MentalStress["心态失衡/难以找回统治气场"] end ``` Joe 指出，在没有受伤的前提下，一周前刚打过比赛反而是巨大的心理优势。Ethyn 对此深表赞同：刚刚经历过严酷降重、后台热身的心跳加速、通道入场的万人瞩目以及铁笼闭合的紧张感，大脑和身体仍保持着真实的战斗神经突触。相比之下，即使像康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）这样曾经的双冠王传奇，休战五年后重返赛场，擂台生疏感（Ring Rust）与长期的心理脱节也会彻底击垮其原有的竞技气场。保持活跃且免于伤病，正是选手在八角笼中自如掌控局面的制胜秘诀。 - Ethyn 接到 UFC 48 小时替补通知前刚打完一场 A1 Combat 头衔战，首回合耗时 90 秒即 KO 获胜且毫发无损。 - 紧急备战 MSG 赛事时，他正值全年严谨训练营后难得的一周饮食放宽期，但由于刚刚完成比赛流程，身体与精神系统仍在最佳实战模式中运转。 - 长期缺席高压赛场（如康纳休战多年）会直接削弱选手的临场心理承载力，而高频健康的比赛节奏能将擂台紧张感转化为肌肉记忆。 ### [36:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2195s) 冠军出战频率的利与弊：从阿迪萨亚到梅拉布两人的对话从以色列·阿迪萨亚（Israel Adesanya）当年的统治力展开。乔·罗根与埃森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）感叹道，人们往往容易遗忘阿迪萨亚在手握 UFC 中量级金腰带时有多么高产——只要赛事方急需有人领衔头条主赛，阿迪萨亚总是毫不犹豫地挺身而出，甚至在一年内三度卫冕世界冠军头衔。反观阿迪萨亚丢冠之后的量级现状，冠军赛的场次寥寥无几，其间仅围绕肖恩·斯特里克兰（Sean Strickland）、德里克斯·杜·普莱西斯（Dricus du Plessis）以及坎扎特·奇马耶夫（Khamzat Chimaev）等人排了几场较量，卫冕节奏拉得极长。然而，如此密集的比赛频率究竟是加分项还是负资产，也引发了深入讨论。罗根提到梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）与彼得·严（Petr Yan）二番战后外界的争议：许多人开始质疑高强度密集的比赛日程是否在透支选手的身体。梅拉布常年处于无休止的高强度连轴作战状态，选手拼到一定阶段，过于活跃反而可能成为一种对自我的消耗与伤害。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 卫冕频率对冠军选手的双向影响分析 accDescr: 对比高频出战与保守规划的利弊关系 subgraph HighFrequency ["高频出战模式（如阿迪萨亚、梅拉布）"] A1["随叫随到 / 快速卫冕"] --> B1["商业曝光与统治力建立"] A1 --> B2["体能透支与伤病累积隐患"] end subgraph BusinessMindset ["商业化节制模式（如职业拳击）"] A2["精挑对手与比赛档期"] --> B3["规避带伤出战风险"] A2 --> B4["拉长运动寿命与维持战绩"] end ``` --- ### [38:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2288s) 职业拳击的商业思维与综合格斗的硬汉陷阱埃森·尤因对此深有感触，他认为身体状态到底行不行，只有选手自己内心最清楚。教练即便在边上夸赞“你最近训练状态神勇、动作极其锋利”，一旦身体内部感觉不对，选手就绝不该盲目登场，因为去争夺或卫冕世界冠军必须确保状态万无一失。尤因对比了职业拳击界与综合格斗界的思维差异：拳击手完全把比赛当作一门严谨的生意来运营，以弗洛伊德·梅威瑟（Floyd Mayweather）为例，擂台尺寸、拳套挑选、对手以及开赛时机全部经过精密计算，原则就是“只有在准备充分且绝不带伤的前提下才打”。相比之下，MMA 选手往往充斥着“任何时间、任何地点迎战任何人”的硬汉作风。尤因直言，虽然这种无所畏惧的斗士精神是立足之本，但真正成熟的运动员必须让身边的智囊团队充当刹车片，在时机不合适时理智喊停。罗根也补充道，在 MMA 领域要保持“完美无伤”的状态踏入八角笼，远比在规则更单一的拳击中困难得多，因为八角笼内的攻击武器和损伤途径实在太多了。 - 拳击商业模式的优势：拥有更为悠久的历史与经验沉淀，顶尖教练更擅长为拳手挑选最合适的比赛时机。 - 综合格斗的潜在风险：摔柔缠斗极易扭伤关节，站立轻微磕碰即可能导致皮肉开裂，多维度的对抗让选手很难在百分之百健康的状态下出战。 --- ### [40:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2409s) 越级实战的惨痛教训：半月板撕裂与备战暗伤尤因随后分享了自己在 2024 年 4 月对阵拉斐尔·埃斯特瓦姆（Rafael Estevam）前遭遇的意外重伤。当时在一次晨间实战的第一回合，他仅仅是想轻度活动热身，便与迈克尔·比斯平的儿子、重量级选手卡勒姆·比斯平（Callum Bisping）轻量移动。卡勒姆尝试抱摔，尤因防下后顺势进入地面防守，为了避免因为体重悬殊导致膝盖被别劲扭伤，尤因主动坐成自己习惯的蝴蝶防守（Butterfly Guard），打算起桥顶起对手下盘并拉开缠斗空间。不料就在发力的一瞬间，他的半月板当场弹响撕裂。罗根对此表现得十分震惊并当场批评：“作为一名雏量级（135磅）选手，你绝不应该去和重量级实战！”罗根认为，选手的实战搭档体重上限最多不应超过自己 10 磅。尤因苦笑着坦承，自己过去总是必须通过撞南墙吃大亏才能吸取教训，如今正在变得更加聪明和理智。这次非完全性的半月板撕裂发生在 2 月份左右，导致他在备战埃斯特瓦姆的整个周期中，直到赛前最后一个月才勉强开始恢复缠斗练习，几乎全程是在严重暗伤的困扰下撑过来的。 --- ### [42:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2567s) 顶级技术代差与安德森·席尔瓦的“外星人”时代聊到接赛安排时，罗根指出 UFC 的临时征召往往非常残酷。例如埃森·尤因在面对马尔科姆·威尔梅克（Malcolm Wellmaker）时，仅仅提前两天接到救场通知，刚打完比赛不久就只能选择硬着头皮“掷色子”。然而尤因在接连面对威尔梅克和保持全胜的拉斐尔·埃斯特瓦姆时，都拿出了令人惊艳的表现。罗根赞叹道，以尤因如今展现出的技术细腻程度，如果放到 20 年前《终极斗士》（The Ultimate Fighter）第一季的时代，他简直就像一个“降临地球的外星人”，因为当时的 MMA 界根本没有人具备这种水平。这种跨时代降维打击的感觉，瞬间唤起了罗根对安德森·席尔瓦（Anderson Silva）统治时期的深刻回忆。在席尔瓦横空出世之前，MMA 界从未见识过如此登峰造极的站立打击艺术： > “人们可能只记住了他职业生涯后期的几场比赛，但你如果回头去看他的巅峰期——我还记得他当年对阵克里斯·勒本（Chris Leben）。勒本是 UFC 历史上重击最致命的重炮手之一，天生神力、顶着狂风暴雨往前冲的铁血战士。但那种打法碰上席尔瓦就是送死。我看盘口时直接跟我朋友说：‘把房子全押在那个巴西人身上，听我的，这小子是个怪物！’” 两人的回忆随后拓展到席尔瓦在英国 Cage Rage 以及日本赛事中的神迹： - **Cage Rage 经典的后肘击倒**：在标志性的黄色八角笼中，席尔瓦以一记诡异逆天的反向向上反肘直接 KO 了托尼·弗里克伦德（Tony Fryklund）。 - **Rumble on the Rock 的下位反击**：席尔瓦在 BJ·佩恩（BJ Penn）创办的 Rumble on the Rock 赛事中，下位防守面对日本名将冈见勇信（Yushin Okami）时，踢出了一记不可思议的从下至上弧形上踢（Upkick），展现了超越那个时代理解范围的技术创造力。 ### [45:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2750s) 安德森·席尔瓦的开创性打击与李·默里之战乔·罗根与伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）正在回顾 UFC 传奇冠军“蜘蛛”安德森·席尔瓦（Anderson Silva）的早期神技。谈到席尔瓦与冈见勇信（Yushin Okami）以及早期赛事中的表现，尤因惊叹席尔瓦摆脱压制、以出人意料的角度出肘击倒对手的动作在当时是完全没有人能想到的。尤因指出，席尔瓦是真正的战术先驱，在那个时代他根本无法在 YouTube 上看比赛录像学习这些技术，全凭自己的创造力。罗根随即分享了一则关于席尔瓦那记经典倒勾肘（逆向挑肘）的趣事：当时席尔瓦在拳馆练习这个动作，教练甚至严厉制止他，说“别练那个，你在比赛里根本用不出来”。结果席尔瓦回到家让妻子手拿枕头当靶子，在家里一遍遍打枕头专心打磨出肘的发力轨迹和发力机制，就是为了向教练证明他是对的，并要在比赛中用这招 KO 对手——最终他确实在擂台上上演了这一神迹。罗根接着提到了席尔瓦早年在 Cage Rage 对阵英国名将李·默里（Lee Murray）的比赛。两人聊起默里传奇又罪恶的人生经历：默里后来策划了英国历史上涉案金额最大的金库抢劫案，是名副其实的重案罪犯与黑帮分子。罗根称赞默里不仅是个心狠手辣的恶徒，而且具备恐怖的重拳破坏力，甚至在 UFC 中曾以三角绞降伏了豪尔赫·里维拉（Jorge Rivera）。尤因认为像默里这种兼具顶级格斗实力与顶尖罪犯背景的“真狠人”自带一种令人胆寒的气场，简直就像电影里走出来的人物。然而，正是这样一个危险的狠角色，却被席尔瓦用堪称教科书般的泰拳技术完全摧毁，尤其是那些杀伤力巨大的扫腿。罗根感慨席尔瓦当时的泰拳水平完全处于另一个艺术维度，让无数顶尖高手在八角笼里显得像初学者一样笨拙。 --- ### [48:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2893s) 巅峰期的艺术格斗与正蹬打脸技术的演变罗根阐述了自己评价格斗选手的准则：评判一名拳手必须看他们在竞技状态最巅峰、转速最高（Highest RPM）的那几年。在那段黄金期里，他们如同浑身着火般无可阻挡，席尔瓦前踹维托·贝尔福特（Vitor Belfort）面部直接 KO 的场面就是最经典的代表作。那是 UFC 历史上首次有人用前踢直接爆头 KO，而在此之前，连浸淫踢拳多年的罗根自己都认为前踢更适合踢击躯干。罗根回忆曾与埃迪·布拉沃（Eddie Bravo）对着 BOB 假人训练，当时布拉沃询问前踢面部的可行性，罗根还觉得这招难以命中面部且不是最佳选择，但席尔瓦彻底打破了这一常识。如今，由于从正中直线向上钻入下巴的蹬腿隐蔽性极高、对手防不胜防，这一招已经成为综合格斗中常见的终结技。尤因对此深有共鸣，并结合自己的比赛战术探讨了前踢与侧踢的技术机制： - **前踢打脸的反击机制**：尤因在备战上一场比赛时（对手为打法极具规律的 Fa）曾专门设计这一招。对方喜欢在开局控制距离并沉下重心死命打低扫，尤因打算把身体重心完全放在后腿上，利用前腿快速挑起直线正蹬直插对手下巴。 - **结合拳击节奏的前蹬**：尤因喜欢在与对手换拳时，先做出上半身前倾的假象让对手以为自己头部在打击范围内；一旦对手踏入陷阱张开架势准备出拳，尤因立刻后撤重心并由后腿驱动，自下而上直接打出中路正蹬拉开距离并造成重创。 - **前腿低扫的距离与发力**：对于卡夫踢（小腿低扫），尤因更偏好荷兰式踢拳的踢法，像踢足球一样直接起腿，用坚硬的胫骨结实砸在对手柔软的小腿肌肉上，而不是用脚背轻拍，虽然需要拉近一点距离，但配合假动作设置会更加致命且安全。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 前踢迎击卡夫踢战术流程图 accDescr: 尤因针对对手重卡夫踢时设计的重心后移与直线正蹬反击流程 subgraph Defense ["预判与重心布置"] A["对手沉低重心准备大力低扫"] --> B["将身体重心完全放至后腿"] end subgraph Counter ["起腿反击与落点"] B --> C["前腿快速直线拔起"] C --> D["穿透对手视线盲区直插下巴"] end Defense --> Counter ``` --- ### [51:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3072s) 与座优贵（Yuki Yoza）的低扫艺术与乔纳森·哈格蒂的破解蓝图罗根与尤因随后把话题转向了踢拳界顶级的低扫专家——日本踢拳冠军与座优贵（Yuki Yoza）。尤因直言与座优贵是他最喜欢的选手之一，其卡夫踢兼具极高的技术含量与致命破坏力。罗根赞叹与座优贵出腿速度奇快、完全没有多余的预摆动作（No tell），并且无需明显垫步转体就能直接拔地而起。他将低扫无缝融入拳法组合中：前手刺拳伴随内侧低扫，左摆拳伴随外侧卡夫踢，随时随地在所有角度瓦解对手的下盘支撑。罗根还特别指出了与座优贵在赛场上的标志性“绊腿”绝活——先打出一个半速的踢击挂住对手的腿，紧接着直接将对手绊倒，这种技术极其干净且杀伤巨大。罗根进一步探讨了面对这种怪物级打击者时的高级战术，盛赞乔纳森·哈格蒂（Jonathan Haggerty）击败与座优贵的比赛堪称教科书式的破局范本： - **不间断的步法与换架**：哈格蒂全场频繁切换正反架，配合大量刺拳与敏捷移动，绝不让与座优贵站稳重心展开组合低扫。 - **近身内围打击**：不断利用迎击膝撞顶击对手躯干，在承受低扫的同时打出了远高于对手的有效命中数，以微弱点数优势破译了低扫重炮手的打法。尤因补充道，哈格蒂在提膝防守前腿方面做得极为出色。反观当前的综合格斗（MMA）领域，低扫防守依然落后，很多拳手在场上毫无提膝阻截意识，纯粹凭借肉身硬吃卡夫踢。罗根与尤因一致认为，戴着厚护胫实战时或许能硬抗几次扫腿，但在没有护胫的职业八角笼里，只要被结结实实命中一记干净的重卡夫踢，整条腿的神经和肌肉功能就会瞬间瘫痪，彻底输掉整场比赛。 --- ### [53:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3211s) 超级赞助环节：Superpower 个性化医疗健康平台节目切入中场赞助商 Superpower 的推广介绍。罗根指出当今医疗系统的弊端：传统医生在每次看诊时通常只给患者留出八分钟时间，而患者能做哪些血液化验项目往往由保险公司拍板决定，这种体系已经严重失衡。Superpower 则提供了一个让个人重新掌握健康主动权的新模式。该服务首先检测超过 150 种关键生物标志物（Biomarkers），更重要的是，它将全面的验血数据与用户的实时可穿戴设备数据、个人病史以及基因组信息深度整合，精准挖掘出传统检查容易忽略的潜在健康模式，并为个人量身定制专属的健康指导方案。 ### [54:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3248s) 乔纳森·哈格蒂对阵与那岭与座的站立大师课乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）与埃辛·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）一起观看并点评比赛录像。罗根指着屏幕分析乔纳森·哈格蒂（Jonathan Haggerty）的站位，惊叹于他几乎从不固定在原地，而是持续不断地左右换架（switch stances）。从刺拳试探到垫步顶膝，哈格蒂的所有动作都在动态移动中完成，完全没有给对手与那岭与座（Yodlekpet / Yoza）从容布局进攻的机会。中间哈格蒂打出一记精妙的转身后摆踢击腹，距离拿捏得极准，险些直接重创对手。二人感叹哈格蒂的扫踢杀伤力极其恐怖，尤其是带有小跳步的外侧低扫和精准的换步飞膝。尤因笑称像哈格蒂这种硬汉，膝盖以下根本就像是没有神经末梢一样，小腿骨硬得犹如石头。罗根盛赞这场对决是一场站立打击的“大师课”（masterclass），并直言自己非常推崇 ONE 冠军赛（ONE Championship），因为纯论纯打击技术（pure striking）的观赏性与水准，ONE 汇聚了全世界最顶尖的一批格斗怪兽。 - **动态换架与节奏压制**：哈格蒂通过永不停歇的步法切换和换步冲膝，彻底破坏了对手的进攻架势。 - **身体硬度**：格斗选手的胫骨硬度在长期踢靶与实战中被磨砺成如同顽石，能承受极强的反作用力冲击。 --- ### [55:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3314s) 达吉斯坦的纯打击怪兽与高长型拳手优势话题转向近年来涌现的顶尖高长型打击手。罗根提到了阿萨杜拉·伊曼加扎利耶夫（Asadula Imangazaliev），直呼他是自己目前最喜欢看的站立选手之一，其打击水准令人叹为观止。尤因补充道，在 PFL 比赛中，与阿萨杜拉一同训练的阿穆鲁·马戈梅多夫（Amru Magomedov）同样展现了教科书般的站立打击艺术，打法风格如出一辙。人们通常会把达吉斯坦选手等同于纯摔跤手或摔柔系“压迫机器”，但很多人忽视了达吉斯坦同样拥有世界顶尖水平的泰拳和散打底子。罗根联想到早期的扎比特·马戈梅德沙里波夫（Zabit Magomedsharipov），指出扎比特其实在练摔跤之前练的就是散打（San Shou），因此在八角笼里能轻易做出 360 度回旋踢与各种天马行空的腿法。在观看马戈梅多夫与阿尔瓦雷斯（Alvarez）的比赛集锦时，罗根和尤因感叹这种身材修长（tall and long）的瘦长型打击手在现代综合格斗中极具优势。尤因指出，传统观念往往认为初代 UFC 那种浑身肌肉块的壮汉才具备完美体型，但在现代 MMA 中，拥有超长臂展、骨架修长且打击细腻的拳手往往才是最恐怖的存在。罗根解释道，长臂展拳手能在距离对手攻击范围外 6 英寸的地方从容击中对方，这种天然距离差是难以弥补的巨大优势。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 高长型与紧凑型选手体型博弈 accDescr: 展示高长型拳手与小个子拳手在攻击距离、技术优势以及内圈外圈对抗中的战术逻辑 subgraph Long["高长型选手 (Long/Tall Build)"] L1["超长臂展与腿长"] --> L2["外围控制与远程打击"] L1 --> L3["长肢降服技 (达斯绞/三角绞)"] end subgraph Short["紧凑型选手 (Compact/Shorter Build)"] S1["低重心与爆发力"] --> S2["摇闪突破 (Bob & Weave)"] S2 --> S3["强切内围贴身拼拳/缠抱"] end L2 -- "利用6英寸安全距离压制" --> S2 S3 -- "化解臂展优势瓦解外围控制" --> L1 ``` - **达吉斯坦的散打/泰拳渊源**：除顶级摔跤外，达吉斯坦选手在散打与泰拳领域的长年造诣让他们兼具不可预测的腿法与立体打击。 - **降服威胁**：修长的四肢不仅有利于远程控距打击，在地面战中做三角绞（Triangle）、达斯绞（D'Arce）、断头台（Guillotine）甚至单臂在内的裸绞时，锁紧角度更加致命。 --- ### [57:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3459s) 臂展差异与战术克制：尤因的内外切入哲学尤因提到周四与队友训练时，对方拥有长达 78 英寸（近 198 厘米）的臂展，这种几乎达到轻重量级标准的臂展加上反架（Southpaw）站姿，能让选手在“百万英里之外”就轻松触碰到对手。相比之下，尤因自己的打法则是绝对的“两极化”：要么彻底留在外圈，要么瞬间切入最内圈（all the way out or all the way in），一旦进入内围就全力输出。尤因分析，长肢体拳手虽然在外围掌控绝对距离，但在内围短兵相接时并不占优；而矮个子选手破局的核心，就在于通过步法和摇闪强行抹平距离差，将比赛拖入内围肉搏。反之，如果长臂展拳手能牢牢将防线维持在外围，长肢型选手就会主导整场比赛。两人一致认为，每种体型都有其得天独厚的优势，关键在于选手是否能清醒认知并最大化利用自己的身体天赋。 --- ### [58:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3514s) 迈克·泰森的灵动性与格斗的“高阶棋局” 罗根以重量级传奇迈克·泰森（Mike Tyson）为例展开探讨。泰森身高仅有 5 英尺 11 英寸（约 180 厘米），巅峰体重维持在 215 至 220 磅左右，在重量级选手中属于明显矮小的一方，但他凭借标志性的下潜摇闪（bobbing and weaving）和永不停歇的步法推进，让那些身形高大、试图用长臂支开他的重量级对手面对的宛如一只凶悍扑来的“金刚狼”。尤因提到自己读过泰森的一段名言——泰森直言自己最大的王牌从来不是蛮力或身体素质，而是“难以捉摸的闪避能力”（elusiveness），这让他能够毫发无伤地杀入内围展开破坏。普通拳迷往往只看到泰森摧枯拉朽的重拳击倒，误以为这只是纯粹的力量碾压，唯有真正钻研格斗的行家才明白这背后极其精细的距离把控与陷阱设置。尤因感叹，格斗绝非简单的跳棋，而是一场多步推演的“高阶国际象棋”（chess match）。罗根强调，职业选手真正渴望的认可并非来自台下起哄的普通看客（casuals），而是来自同样身处最高水平的同行。当一个顶尖格斗家走到另一个顶尖高手面前由衷赞叹“兄弟，我太喜欢你刚才做的那套战术细节了”时，那种触动是完全不同的，因为只有真正经历过八角笼残酷考验的人，才能读懂高难度操作背后的汗水与意识。 - **泰森的技术核心**：并非单纯的重拳力量，而是极致的头部位移与步法切角，通过隐蔽移动进入打击内线。 - **看客视角与拳手视角**：普通观众容易在选手空拳时误以为其“技术不行”，却无法体会笼内数万观众噪音、体能极限消耗、带伤作战以及心理博弈下的战术考量。 --- ### [01:01:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3708s) 早期失利的馈赠：从业余连胜到职业挫折的心态蜕变罗根将话题拉回到尤因的职业经历上。罗根指出，尤因在 UFC 的前两个对手在遇到他之前全部未尝败绩，尤其是像马尔科姆·威尔梅克（Malcolm Wellmaker）这样的不败 KO 艺术家，身上往往缠绕着极高的话题度和公众狂热。然而由于这些选手此前从未经历过职业赛场的失败，心智可能缺乏相应的磨砺。罗根提问：职业生涯初期的前两场连败，是否反而成为了一份沉淀自我的“恩赐”？尤因对此给出了肯定的回答。他坦言自己曾经在业余阶段打出了 6 胜 0 负的全胜战绩，但正因一路顺风顺水，当时的自己根本没有全身心投入到一名真正职业拳手应有的严苛生活方式中。彼时的他心智极为幼稚，每天早上只去训练一次，晚上就去正常上班，心里甚至天真地觉得打拳是世界上最轻松惬意的美差：“早上起个床练一把，剩下的时间随心所欲到处玩，上去打一场就能赚大钱实现梦想。”正是随后的职业失利，才彻底敲碎了他的盲目乐观，让他真正开始敬畏这项运动。 ### [01:02:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3777s) 职业两连败后的觉醒：从自我放逐到十连胜的蜕变伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）坦言，业余时期的连战连胜虽然风光，但业余比赛本质上只是用来积累经验与学习的试炼场。真正让他迎来脱胎换骨般转变的，是踏入职业擂台后的当头棒喝。那些挫折让他清醒地意识到，不仅在格斗训练中需要做出改变，赛场之外的生活方式更需要彻底重塑。在尤因看来，赛场外的自律甚至比擂台上的技术更为关键。唯有彻底抹去过往的所有消极与恶习，并以全方位的积极行动来填补日常，他才得以在如今打出一波极具说服力的十连胜。他由衷感慨，如果当初没有以那样惨烈的方式吞下职业生涯前两场败仗，他或许永远不会做出如此决绝的改变。乔·罗根随即一针见血地追问，在遭遇职业前两场失利之前，他是否一直处于放任自流、虚度光阴的状态。尤因毫不避讳地承认当时自己完全在胡混：“抽烟、酗酒、四处瞎搞，当个不良混混”，甚至在感情中也算不上一个合格的伴侣。年轻时的他被各种负面诱惑缠身，完全没有顶尖运动员应有的自我约束，最终这些赛场外的散漫在残酷的职业赛场上让他付出了惨痛代价。 - 职业初期的两场连败成为其职业生涯的转折点，随后通过彻底自律迎来十连胜。 - 尤因坦承早年生活极其混乱，抽烟、酗酒、缺乏自律与责任感。 --- ### [01:04:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3852s) 田纳西的至暗时刻：冷漠的教练、初次重伤与信仰动摇回溯恶习的源头，尤因提到了2017年大学时期的一场变故。当时刚满19岁的他离开阳光明媚的南加州，只身前往田纳西州的布里斯托（Bristol, Tennessee）上大学并参加摔跤队。这不仅是他人生中第一次离开家独立生活，更伴随着强烈的文化冲击。在一次校际对抗赛（dual meet）中，他的右膝半月板撕裂。然而，他的摔跤教练不仅毫无同理心，甚至直接选择无视，冷漠地叫他“忍着点继续上”。在整个摔跤季余下的时间里，尤因只能拖着残腿，伴随着骨头与软骨“啪啪作响”（"snap, crackle, popped"）的杂音硬撑比赛。这种孤立无援与教练的冷血对待击垮了他原本纯粹的精神支柱。尤因从小在极为严谨的宗教家庭中长大，整个高中时期他视摔跤为自己唯一的信仰与“毒品”，连烟酒碰都不碰。高中时他战绩卓著，曾斩获加州州锦标赛第八名、全美锦标赛第五名，还赢得了全美公开赛（US Open）所属年龄段的冠军。然而初入大学就遭遇重伤，加上异乡的孤独，让他心理防线全面崩塌，心想“为什么这种倒霉事会落在我头上？”在那年硬撑着比完摔跤季、甚至连期末考试都彻底放弃后，尤因在考完最后一科当天去了朋友家，人生中第一次喝得酩酊大醉。从此，他滑入了一发不可收拾的恶性循环，一直颓废到打完职业前两场比赛。 - 高中摔跤荣誉：加州州赛第8名、全国赛第5名、全美公开赛年龄组冠军。 - 重伤地点：田纳西州布里斯托（从南加州搬迁后的首次独立生活）。 - 堕落诱因：遭遇严重半月板撕裂遭教练漠视，第一次在期末考后借酒消愁。 --- ### [01:07:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4069s) 身体的脆弱与心智的重构：失败是最好的老师当罗根问起大学时的半月板撕裂是否是他第一次意识到身体其实极其脆弱时，尤因回忆起高中时为了备战橙县顶级对抗赛（OC Duels，当地排名第一和第二的高中选手对决）也曾重度扭伤脚踝，但那时他咬牙挺了过去并完成了赛季。大学半月板的重创之所以致命，在于它从精神上击垮了他——他过去总以为冥冥中有更高的神明力量在庇护自己，但当重伤彻底夺走竞技能力时，他第一反应是“上帝遗弃了我”。年轻时的认知局限让他选择通过酒精和放纵来麻痹自己，在逃避现实中越陷越深。如今历经风雨的尤因对此有了完全不同的领悟。他认为正是那些苦难打碎了年少轻狂的盲目自信，反过来锤炼了信心，也让他与信仰建立了更为深厚真实的关系。罗根对此极为赞同，强调失败是人生中最棒的导师；尤其是在年轻气盛、自以为是的时候，被人狠狠打趴在地并不得不重新拼凑自己，这种经历弥足珍贵。因为唯有经过彻底的重建，人才能认清自己真正的极限，明白未来的道路必定充满起伏，必须坚定不移地走下去。 --- ### [01:10:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4214s) 半月板切除的代价与第二场职业赛的惨烈韧带伤尤因回忆，当年大学受伤后医院给他的右膝做了关节镜手术（scope），切除刮掉了撕裂游离的软骨碎片。他至今都后悔做这个决定，因为那个外侧半月板（lateral meniscus）的切除给他留下了终生后遗症。时至今日，只要进行任何内翻动作——比如做三角绞时右腿从上方扣住对手——外侧半月板就会翻转卡死（catches），他必须强行将腿蹬直，伴随一声清脆的异响让关节复位。罗根也附和称，现在的运动医学界甚至普遍建议尽量不要轻易做半月板碎片切除手术。更为惨烈的是尤因的第二场职业MMA比赛。当时对手在外侧缠腿（outside reap）的位置锁死了他的下肢并形成踝关节锁，尤因试图坐起防守，对手紧紧咬住体位，尤因的膝盖外侧在耳边连续发出大约八声骇人的撕裂爆鸣（"went like eight times in my ear"），受损位置与之前开过刀的半月板一模一样。尤因硬是咬牙撑住试图去扒对手的手臂解脱，然而对手瞬间顺势转换成脚后跟勾（heel hook），伴随着脚踝再度传来的两声脆响，尤因最终被迫拍垫认输。这次惨烈的伤病发生后，尤因甚至连核磁共振（MRI）都没做，由于医院排期太慢，他自顾自地采用“膝盖过脚尖”（knees over toes）训练法进行强化与活动度康复。等医院一周后通知可以去照MRI时，他已经能够自如运动了。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 尤因职业初期的挫折与康复转变历程 accDescr: 展现尤因从早年重伤堕落到职业败仗，再到自主康复与重建的转变路径 subgraph 早期危机 A["大学膝伤被冷遇 半月板撕裂"] --> B["心理崩溃与信仰动摇 酗酒与放浪形骸"] B --> C["职业MMA遭遇两连败"] end subgraph 赛场创伤 C --> D["第二战遭遇足跟勾与脚踝锁 膝踝连续爆裂异响"] D --> E["拒绝漫长MRI排期等待"] end subgraph 觉醒与康复 E --> F["采用'膝过脚尖'自主力量强化"] F --> G["生活作风彻底戒除恶习"] G --> H["迎来职业生涯十连胜"] end ``` ### [01:11:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4304s) 膝关节镜手术的教训与现代康复手段 Ethyn Ewing 和 Joe Rogan 探讨了膝盖手术对运动员长期的影响。Ethyn 提到，自己未动刀的膝盖从未出过问题，反而是当年做过关节镜手术（scope）的那条腿至今仍隐隐作痛。Rogan 对此深有体会，指出医学界如今已不推崇膝关节镜手术。研究表明，针对半月板损伤，单纯进行科学康复的效果往往优于手术切除。 Rogan 分享了自己因巴西柔术造成的“桶柄状半月板撕裂”（bucket-handle tear）。当年他的膝盖常常卡住锁死，整条腿僵直得无法弯曲，必须强行掰正才能归位，过程极其痛苦，且往往会肿胀整整一天。Rogan 遗憾地表示，当时还没有干细胞疗法（stem cells）；如果放到现在，他绝不会开刀，而是会选择干细胞注射、配合低阻力固定自行车进行大量循环踩踏，以及利用“Knees Over Toes Guy”（Ben Patrick）的训练体系来促进血流并强化肌腱与韧带。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 膝关节康复与强化路径 accDescr: 对比传统关节镜手术与现代主动康复及强化路径 subgraph 传统方式 A["半月板损伤"] --> B["关节镜切除手术"] B --> C["失去缓冲组织 / 长期不适与退化"] end subgraph 现代主动康复路径 D["膝关节损伤 / 强化"] --> E["干细胞注射与生物修复"] D --> F["低阻力自行车骑行 (促进血液循环与无负重活动)"] D --> G["Knees Over Toes 体系 (倒退拉雪橇 / 倒退走跑步机)"] D --> H["Poliquin 下阶步 (离心力量与关节稳定性)"] end ``` - 现代临床对比显示，在半月板损伤治疗中，纯康复训练的远期收益普遍优于半月板修整切除术。 - 低阻力、高重复次数的固定自行车骑行能够有效为膝关节提供血液循环，在不施加额外冲击负荷的前提下滋养软骨与韧带。 --- ### [01:13:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4410s) 关节活动度、越野背包行进与 Poliquin 下阶步 Ethyn 聊到自己最近重装徒步（backpacking）的体会，认为在背负一定重量时下坡对膝盖的冲击非常大，必须在可控环境下做缓和的受控落地训练。因为近期因伤休战，他拥有大量时间沉淀和思考，意识到综合格斗中有无数位置会置膝关节于险境——例如遭遇腿部锁技（leg lock）、十字膝固（knee bar），或者在防摔防抱腿的 wizard（whizzer）腋下别肩位置被顶起受压。如果柔韧性或极限活动范围（range of motion）不够，关节很容易瞬间受损，因此主动增强膝关节的活动度和结缔组织强度至关重要。 Rogan 随即向他推荐了传奇力量教练 Charles Poliquin 发明的“Poliquin 下阶步”（Poliquin Step-downs）。这项动作极其简单却异常高效：站在稍微垫高的斜板或几块杠铃片上，单脚支撑，另一只脚缓缓下落约 10 英寸轻触地面再恢复。这种高度受控的单腿微幅屈伸是提高膝关节动态稳定性和强化股内侧斜肌（VMO）的顶尖动作。 --- ### [01:15:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4523s) Knees Over Toes 倒退训练与弹力带力量练习当探讨如何强化下肢时，Ethyn 提到自己为了拳击步法和体能通常会在沙滩上训练，但基本远离大重量力量举。Rogan 解释称这类膝关节康复并不需要大负重，极力推荐在跑步机关闭电源的状态下背身反向踩动跑带，或者系上腰带进行倒退拉雪橇（sled drag）。日常生活中人们大部分时间都在做向前推的动作，极少有人专注于向后推，而倒向运动对于膝关节周围的血液供应与平衡强化有着不可替代的价值。Ethyn 也补充了一种 Knees Over Toes Guy 的弹力带训练法：将弹力带固定在正前方拉住身体，身体呈弓步前推使膝盖超过脚尖，随后对抗拉力伸直下肢，针对膝周肌群进行极为精准的离心与向心刺激。两人还探讨了在沙滩上做横向侧向移动（lateral movement）对膝部侧向韧带的加固作用，并提及弹力带在深层柔韧性与奇特角度发力上的独特效果。 --- ### [01:17:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4666s) Marinovich 体系与超人体能极限从弹力带话题延伸开来，Rogan 回忆起昔日的轻量级名宿 BJ Penn 在巅峰期经常使用弹力带进行各种古怪而极限的柔韧性与力量开发。Ethyn 联想到了 UFC 前冠军 Rafael dos Anjos 所做的筋膜（fascia）专项训练。Rogan 指出，Dos Anjos 的体能教练 Nick Curson 师承自传奇体能大师 Marv Marinovich，而 Marinovich 正是在巅峰期将 BJ Penn 打造成体能怪兽的幕后功臣。 Marinovich 的训练哲学在格斗界极具争议：他们认为格斗家早已掌握了技术本身，备战时不必重复消耗在技术实战上，而是应该通过近乎地狱式的增强式训练（plyometrics）将选手的心肺耐力（gas tank）拉到非人级别，使其在场上能随心所欲执行技战术而不疲竭。BJ Penn 当年极度痛恨该训练体系的折磨，但在其实施期间场上表现宛如永动机。 Rogan 进一步谈到现今综合格斗选手对人体体能极限的重塑，尤其是现任雏量级顶尖选手 Merab Dvalishvili。Merab 展现出的超人级体能与永不停歇的摔跤施压，让世界上最优秀的格斗家彻底绝望崩溃。Rogan 指出，这种储备绝非单一训练营就能催生，而是多年如一日积攒下来的惊人体能底蕴；Ethyn 对此深表认同，并直言这也是自己摔跤生涯所磨砺出的最大核心武器。 ### [01:19:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4790s) 摔跤体能与心理韧性：格斗中最严苛的基石埃辛·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）坦言，在自己的各项技术储备中，最常倚仗的核心武器其实是充沛的体能与“油箱”。由此，两人深入探讨了有氧与无氧耐力、以及站立打击体能与缠斗体能之间的本质差异。埃辛指出，纯正的摔跤体能拥有一种无可替代的特质——那是一种全天候、高强度的纯粹肉搏与消耗，肌肉时刻处于对抗碰撞与紧绷之中。他坚信，只要一名选手拥有顶级的摔跤体能，这世上几乎没有什么事情是他应付不来的。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）完全赞同这一观点，称这种体能构筑起了一座几乎坚不可摧的底层基石，其背后更淬炼出了常人难以企及的强悍意志与职业道德。谈及摔跤手转型综合格斗（MMA）的巨大优势，罗根直言，拥有精英级摔跤背景的人进入 UFC 时，天然就比其他选手占据制高点。在备战训练营中，选手或许还能自己选择是否经历炼狱般的折磨，或者全看教练是否施加高压；但在摔跤队里，任何人都没有选择的余地，每个人都必须趟过这片火海。全美各地的顶尖摔跤队绝无混日子的捷径，首发席位只能靠一场又一场的真刀真枪拼杀出来。埃辛生动地剖析了摔跤训练的残酷日常：一天一到两次的高强度对抗，单是长时间维持深蹲式的防摔姿势（Wrestling stance）就极其痛苦，更何况还要在心率飙升的极速节奏下，承受对手不断发力猛扳头部（Snap downs），随后立即进入白热化的实战对抗（Live wrestling），最后再以多组折返冲刺收尾。这种“永动机”式的节奏是其他流派无法比拟的——即便在巴西柔术中，选手还能拉进防守（Pull guard）或在特定缠斗体位中喘口气偷懒；在站立打击中，选手在完成爆发性进攻后，可以通过防守、拉开安全距离或靠假动作闪躲来化解阻力并获得短暂休整。但在摔跤擂台上，尤其是面对像梅拉布·德瓦利什维利（Merab Dvalishvili）这种全天候贴身施压的对手时，你连半秒喘息的机会都没有。埃辛认为，只要拥有如此顶尖的摔跤体能打底，转去练习打击技术、柔术降服或控制节奏，就完全有充沛的时间与体魄周旋到底。 ### [01:22:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4938s) 格斗体系的构建：从摔跤根基到点数空手道的距离控制罗根进一步阐述，一名运动员若是能参透如何成为一名优秀的摔跤手，他往往就能参透任何事情，因为他懂得将那种极致的专注力迁移到 MMA 或任何领域。能够熬过成为伟大摔跤手所必需经历的地狱磨炼，本身就意味着其拥有异于常人的超凡意志，这也正是为何达到顶尖摔跤水平的人凤毛麟角。在格斗世界里，摔跤之所以是最扎实的根基，在于它赋予了选手掌控战场的绝对主导权——“只要你能摔倒对手，而对手摔不倒你，这就是巨大的战术优势”，若能在此基础上再打磨出一流的站立打击，便构成了完美的格斗拼图。埃辛对此深表赞同，他给新人的入门建议同样是先打牢摔跤底子，再融合扎实的拳击，至于截击抱架、防踢截腿等站立细节完全可以在后续逐步摸索完善。然而，罗根随后抛出了一个颇具争议却极具前瞻性的独特观点：如果要指导一个零基础的小孩练格斗，他会力荐去学“点数空手道”（Point Karate）。他解释道，空手道点数赛选手的步法移动与距离感妙到巅毫，能把对手戏弄得无所适从。以迈克尔·“毒蛇”·佩奇（Michael "Venom" Page, MVP）为例，像凯文·霍兰德（Kevin Holland）这样身经百战、面对任何悍将都极具竞争力的硬茬，在遭遇 MVP 时完全被打懵了，陷入一种“我到底在干嘛？我甚至碰不到这家伙”的茫然绝望之中。罗根回忆，在 MVP 声名鹊起之前自己就曾预言，未来必有一位顶尖的点数空手道大师横空出世，依靠对手“摸都摸不到”的距离掌控力打崩擂台。埃辛指出，MVP 与“神奇小子”斯蒂芬·汤普森（Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson）都是将空手道风格发挥到极致的典范，两人身材颀长，能够将大范围突进突退的弹簧步法优势发挥得淋漓尽致。埃辛表示自己也有意在日后深入钻研这种风格，因为他自身的柔韧性很好，起腿兼具速度与爆发力，若能掌握那种快速而清脆的侧踢（Side kick）将极具杀伤力。 ### [01:24:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5077s) 危险的脚趾刺击与令人头皮发麻的足部创伤聊到下肢打击技术的变体，埃辛提及了法式踢拳（Savate）独特的踢击发力方式，但他强调自己并不敢随意模仿其中用脚尖点刺躯干的招式，毕竟进入八角笼比赛是赤脚上阵，没有鞋子保护。罗根随即反驳指出，其实踢拳名将与座优贵（Yuki Yoza）在无护具的状态下也经常用脚趾直刺对手的躯干甚至大腿，慢动作回放里能清晰看到他甚至用脚趾直戳对手的肝脏部位。埃辛感叹，用脚趾进行攻击需要极其变态的抗击打硬度训练，在这个过程中脚趾大概率要经历无数次骨折。现代 MMA 选手的前踢（Front kick）往往不再是传统泰拳那种向上提膝再向外蹬踏、依靠前脚掌（Ball of the foot）发力的重击，而是变成了类似康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）常用的下勾式脚尖刺腹。这种铲起式的脚尖踢击必须极其精准，因为一旦落点出现毫厘偏差，直接踢在对手向下格挡的肘部骨头上，脚趾瞬间就会断成两截。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 前踢击打方式对比 accDescr: 对比传统泰拳正蹬与现代MMA脚尖刺腹在接触面、发力机制与受损风险上的差异。 subgraph MuayThai["传统泰拳正蹬 (Teep)"] A["提膝后向外挺送"] --> B["前脚掌肉垫触击"] B --> C["高力量输出 / 结构安全"] end subgraph MMAShovel["现代MMA铲式前踢 (Toe Stabs)"] D["由下向上铲出"] --> E["脚趾直刺肝脏/软腹"] E --> F["穿透力强 / 遇肘击格挡易折断"] end ``` 话题随即转到令人毛骨悚然的脚趾伤势上。罗根让制作人杰米（Jamie）调出“机械战警”格雷戈里·罗德里格斯（Gregory Rodrigues）在击败安东尼·“蓬蓬头”·埃尔南德斯（Fluffy）后发布在社交媒体上的脚部特写照。尽管骨头没有刺穿皮肤，但其脚趾因剧烈碰撞产生严重畸形、大脚骨与淤肿惨不忍睹，罗根忍不住惊呼：“这双脚不知道磕过多少坚硬的手肘！”埃辛也分享起自己摔跤时期的荒唐伤情：某年参加摔跤夏令营的前一天，他在前院和哥哥追逐打闹，哥哥后撤的脚跟正好砸在他脚上，他的小脚趾当场被砸得完全向外呈九十度横折，就像手势比出西海岸“Westside”一样古怪扭曲，让他只得硬着头皮去看家庭医生。 ### [01:27:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5221s) 中量级与雏量级巨汉的极限减重折磨看着格雷戈里·罗德里格斯的照片，两人不禁将话题延伸到了他在 185 磅（中量级）不可思议的体格上。罗根感慨道，每次在赛后采访罗德里格斯时，自己内心都在纳闷：“这位先生，你的自然体重至少有 220 磅吧？你怎么可能减到 185 磅，而且浑身肌肉拉丝到这种地步？” 两人分析，大级别选手虽然减重绝对值大，但因为体内肌肉含量高，可以通过脱去肌肉中储存的大量水分来实现剧烈降重。比如像轻重量级冠军亚历克斯·佩雷拉（Alex Pereira），哪怕平时身材略有放松、体重飙到 220 磅以上，依然能通过恐怖的意志力排出三四十磅水分压进量级。 - **脱水与体格极限**：大级别肌肉型选手更容易通过肌肉脱水挤出惊人的体重差，但承受的心脏与身体负荷极其巨大。 - **阿尔贾曼·斯特林的减重前例**：埃辛提到了前雏量级冠军阿尔贾曼·斯特林（Aljamain Sterling），他平日漫游体重高达 175 磅，此前却长年将身体硬生生压入 135 磅的雏量级，极限减重高达 40 磅。 - **升重的体能红利**：斯特林最终不堪忍受 135 磅的非人折磨，选择升至 145 磅羽量级；在免除了极端脱水之后，他的竞技状态与体感大幅回升，这也反映了当代多数选手在严苛体重线下面临的身心抉择。 ### [01:27:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5276s) 雏量级减重哲学：体温控制胜于盲目高温谈话从雏量级选手的日常体重管理切入。伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）提到，很多粉丝在 Instagram 上看到他非赛季略显发福的训练照后，调侃他是“体重霸凌者”（weight bully），甚至有搞笑评论喊话让他“立刻雇个营养师”（hire a nutritionist ASAP）。尤因笑着表示大家其实减的重量都差不多。当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）问及他在休赛期暴饮暴食时的最大体重时，尤因透露自己最重能涨到 175 磅甚至 178 磅，但在备战营最后一周前通常保持在 150 磅左右。在减重实操上，尤因总结出更科学的心态——减重是一场马拉松而非短跑。最近一次备战，他在一晚上顺利减掉了 11 磅。他领悟到蒸桑拿并不需要追求上百摄氏度的超高极端温度；使用限制在 150 华氏度（约 65.5 摄氏度）左右的便携式红外便携桑拿箱，配合急救保温毯（emergency blankets），反而效果极佳。更关键的是单次蒸汗之间的降温环节：他会脱光衣物敷冰块迅速拉低体温。尤因指出，身体对脱水的耐受力远高于对核心体温过热（overheat）的耐受力，一旦核心温度过热，整个人就会彻底崩溃。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 科学减重与核心体温控制对比 accDescr: 对比传统高温盲目减重与现代控温减重策略在身体负担与恢复力上的差异 subgraph 传统高危减重 ["传统高危减重模式"] A["多层重装包裹 (压缩衣+多件厚卫衣)"] --> B["180-190°F 极高温桑拿"] B --> C["连续硬顶不降温 恐热量流失"] C --> D["核心体温过热 / 极度衰竭"] end subgraph 现代控温减重 ["现代控温减重策略"] E["便携桑拿箱 + 减重发汗服 (约 150°F 温和发汗)"] --> F["适度延长出汗时长 节奏放缓"] F --> G["出汗间隙冰敷降温 保护核心体温"] G --> H["保留体力与次日恢复状态"] end ``` - **日常极限体重**：非赛季放纵饮食时可达 175 至 178 磅。 - **训练营临门体重**：比赛前一周通常维持在 150 磅左右（理想目标为 145–149 磅）。 - **单夜降重实战**：最近一次比赛在单夜平稳减掉 11 磅。 - **降重关键认知**：体温过热比轻微脱水更具毁灭性；宁可使用 150°F 的便携设备拉长时间，也不要盲目在 180°–190°F 的商用桑拿中把自己耗尽。 --- ### [01:31:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5491s) 聪明减重：为 15 到 25 分钟的残酷实战省下能量罗根极为赞同这种“聪明工作而非盲目硬拼”（work smarter, not harder）的策略。他以自身经历举例：仅仅在桑拿里呆上 20 分钟就会感到疲惫不堪；如果一名拳手用极限高温连蒸数轮、彻底耗尽体能，第二天还要在八角笼中进行高强度的生死搏杀，生理上会承受巨大损耗。尤因回忆自己早期不懂科学减重时，穿两层紧身衣、套卫衣再加厚外套，钻进 180 到 190 华氏度的桑拿里硬扛 15 分钟，结果往往是面容枯槁、状态极其糟糕。尤因强调，拳手为了比赛已经进行了长达两个月的魔鬼备战，把身体推向了绝对极限，接下来还要面对 15 分钟甚至 25 分钟的残酷恶斗。既然最艰难的苦练和比赛已经无法避免，那么称重这一环节就必须在心态和方法上“能做多轻松就做多轻松”，绝不能在登上称重秤之前就把战斗力消耗殆尽。 --- ### [01:31:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5514s) 摩西·伊陶马对阵赫尔戈维奇：技术、体能与青春的代价话题随后转向当周刚结束的重量级拳击焦点战——21 岁的超新星摩西·伊陶马（Moses Itauma）对决克罗地亚悍将菲利普·赫尔戈维奇（Filip Hrgović）。罗根评价伊陶马此前被视为十多年来重量级最具前途的新星，甚至一度被寄望打破迈克·泰森（Mike Tyson）保持的史上最年轻重量级冠军纪录。在比赛前几回合，伊陶马展现了极度恐怖的出拳速度、爆发力与华丽技术，完全压制住了赫尔戈维奇。然而，此前一路快速 KO 对手的伊陶马从未游进过“深水区”（deep water），严重缺乏打满回合的硬仗经验。到了第 8 回合，伊陶马体能急剧下滑，油箱见底。尤因与罗根聊到两人赛前坐在一起对谈的花絮：赫尔戈维奇当时引用了《洛奇》（Rocky）里的名言，称“重点不在于你能打别人多少拳，而在于你能承受多少拳还能继续前进”；年轻气盛的伊陶马则当场嘲讽这是他听过最愚蠢的言论。结果在实战中，极其坚韧耐打的赫尔戈维奇上演了真实的《洛奇》剧本，顶住重击后在后程完成反杀，令耗尽体能的伊陶马踉跄倒下。两人翻看比赛记录并核对伊陶马之前的对手（包括迪利安·怀特 Dillian Whyte 和杰梅因·富兰克林 Jermaine Franklin 等），罗根感叹道，虽然年轻的狂妄（hubris）和不懂分配体能让伊陶马付出了惨痛代价，但年仅 21 岁的他依然拥有不可限量的世界冠军潜力。 - **焦点新星**：摩西·伊陶马（Moses Itauma），年仅 21 岁，拥有重量级顶尖的手速与击倒率。 - **经典对局**：面对克罗地亚名将菲利普·赫尔戈维奇（Filip Hrgović），前半程大占上风，后半程体能彻底透支被终结。 - **赛前垃圾话照进现实**：赫尔戈维奇赛前引用《洛奇》名言被伊陶马嘲弄，最终却凭借极致的抗击打与推进逆转战局。 - **交手履历辨析**：节目中罗根与助手翻看伊陶马此前 KO 战绩，确认了其上一战的重要对手为迪利安·怀特（Dillian Whyte）。 ### [01:36:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5790s) 职业拳击的造星模式与MMA选手的无畏应战对阵迪利安·怀特（Dillian Whyte）与杰曼·富兰克林（Jermaine Franklin）之后的赛事轨迹显示，此前几乎每一场比赛都是摧枯拉朽的连续 TKO 终结。乔·罗根与伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）聊到这种比赛虽然极具视觉冲击力和惊艳感，但年轻拳手在面对经验丰富、下巴极硬且耐打的重量级老手之前，并没有真正经受过极限维度的生死考验；如今虽然吞下了职业生涯首场败仗，但他年仅 21 岁，卷土重来只是时间问题。尤因对此感触颇深，指出这恰好是拳击界一贯的“喂战绩”套路：赛事方会精心挑选对手把新星层层喂大、打造出漂亮战绩，等地位彻底稳固之后，才会安排真正有分量的对手碰面。这种模式与综合格斗（MMA）形成了鲜明反差。尤因认为 MMA 选手在心态上更加“豁得出去”，随时随地愿意与任何人硬碰硬。罗根随即探讨了这种文化背后的驱动力究竟是选手的自主决绝，还是体制环境下的被迫妥协。在拳击领域，如果赛事方提前四周给一个从未涉足顶级拳台的新人打电话问：“你想在四周后打世界冠军战吗？”这在行业规则里是绝不可能发生的荒唐事；但在 UFC，如果你在其他格斗组织横扫夺冠、战绩斐然，一旦遇到突发契机，哪怕是进入八角笼的第一场比赛直接挑战世界冠军也屡见不鲜。尤因承认，MMA 本质上是一个多种搏击体系交汇的“大熔炉”，这些空降争冠的选手往往已经在摔跤、踢拳或 RIZIN 等领域证明了自己，绝非随便抓一个无名小辈去争夺金腰带。但罗根也补充道，UFC 经常在当地直接拉一个初出茅庐的本地年轻人，去硬碰拥有十几场八角笼实战经验的老将。拳击手在面对这类别风险时往往极其保守，而 MMA 选手却愿意冒着战绩被毁、连胜被破的职业风险临时接战，这种愿意承担极大不确定性的行事风格，也构成了 MMA 更加狂野、更具原始血性的文化内核。 - **拳击新秀培养逻辑**：通过挑选风格匹配、易于终结的对手逐步堆叠胜场与知名度，直至选手羽翼丰满才面对真正硬仗。 - **MMA 跨界与救火常态**：顶级摔跤手或踢拳冠军进入 UFC 首秀即战世界冠军；当地年轻拳手也常在短通知下对决十余场经验的资深老将。 - **风险偏好的文化差异**：拳击讲究精心规划与战绩保护，MMA 则盛行“随时随地、对决任何人”的敢战文化。 --- ### [01:38:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5913s) 商业逻辑的巨大鸿沟：明星中心制与UFC赛程运作两人顺着战意差异进一步剖析了背后的商业运行机理。罗根指出，拳击界根本没有人在乎幕后推广人是谁。观众想看赫尔文塔·戴维斯（Gervonta Davis）的比赛，绝不会关心比赛是鲍勃·阿鲁姆（Bob Arum）操盘还是金童推广公司（Golden Boy Promotions）主办，观众只认拳手个人品牌；而 UFC 则是完全不同的庞然大物，只要接到 UFC 的邀约电话，选手就会产生“我们终于打进大联盟了”的质变跃升感。拳击界有无数独立的推广组织，但 UFC 在综合格斗领域是绝对的权力巅峰。这种商业结构直接塑造了两种截然相反的赛程编排方式。罗根用精辟的逻辑总结道：拳击是“围绕选手排赛程”，而 UFC 是“围绕赛程填选手”。比如顶级巨星卡内洛·阿尔瓦雷斯（Canelo Alvarez）想要在 9 月 12 日比赛，主办方就会在 9 月 12 日围绕他搭建一整张对阵战卡；但 UFC 的运转逻辑完全相反——UFC 宣布 10 月 3 日前往盐湖城举办比赛，接下来才是敲定谁能上场、谁愿意在这个时间节点参战，再将具体的对决填充进战卡中。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 拳击与UFC商业运作机制对比 accDescr: 展示拳击以拳手个人意愿排定赛程与UFC以赛事品牌日期招募填充选手的对比流程 subgraph Boxing["传统职业拳击（明星中心制）"] B1["顶级拳手决定档期 （如卡内洛选定日期）"] --> B2["独立推广人搭建赛事"] B2 --> B3["围绕超级巨星量身匹配对手与垫赛战卡"] end subgraph UFC["UFC赛事体系（品牌中心制）"] U1["品牌敲定赛事排期与地点 （如10月3日盐湖城）"] --> U2["八角笼品牌号召力调配各量级阵容"] U2 --> U3["询问并筛选选手填充既定战卡"] end ``` 尤因坦言自己乐于从各个格斗领域的不同侧面汲取智慧与灵感。在拳击体系中，大量精明的大脑（如顶尖经理人、战术教练）围绕单一拳手进行全生命周期的商业运作，将其从新秀一步步塑造成竞争者、争冠者；而 UFC 则由单一机构掌控所有量级的排兵布阵与资源分配。不同的商业生态塑造了选手完全不同的职业节奏与心态。 --- ### [01:41:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6067s) 从《叶隐闻书》看武士之道与屏幕外的生活在聊到格斗哲学时，罗根询问尤因是否会阅读心理学、战士战术类的经典著作，例如宫本武藏的《五轮书》。尤因透露，自己的拳击教练在他处于一段迷茫徘徊期时，送给了他一本日本江户时代的经典武士道典籍《叶隐闻书》（Hagakure）。这部书源自武士山本常朝的言论口述，背景正是战乱平息、幕府体制稳固后，武士阶层不再成为社会刚需的历史转折期。书中探讨的核心命题让尤因产生了强烈共鸣：当不再有日常的厮杀冲锋时，一名战士在战场之外究竟该如何生活？每天必须如何修行与自处？尤因分享道，山本常朝的主君离世后，他本想依照传统殉死剖腹（切腹），但因主君生前严令禁止此类行为，最终选择隐居修行。书中汇集了大量经历过真实生死搏杀的武士对于处世原则的不同见解，有人主张果决激进，有人主张克制隐忍。尤因非常喜欢这种真实的众生相视角，使他能够在形形色色的思维方式中穿梭筛选，提炼出最契合自身格斗与生活状态的信条。然而，尤因也坦率剖析了自己在现代生活中的知行鸿沟。尽管他热爱阅读这些古代先哲的思想，但自己也常常深陷手机与屏幕的泥潭。他的 YouTube 浏览记录里充斥着格斗比赛、枪械知识、徒步露营、荒野狩猎以及潜水水肺捕鱼（Spearfishing）等内容。他正在努力减少看屏幕的时间，把更多精力放在翻开纸质书阅读上，渴望与周遭的现实世界产生更加直接、真实的交互。 - **《叶隐闻书》的核心启发**：探索战士在走下擂台或战场后的日常生活常态，如何在无战事的环境下保持心境与尊严。 - **山本常朝与切腹禁令**：主君逝世后因禁令未能切腹，后将武士生存哲理与故事口述成书，提供多元实战视角。 - **数字屏幕的反思**：虽然热衷于在书中汲取古老武士哲学，但现代智能手机与算法内容仍在持续分散个人的真实注意力。 --- ### [01:43:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6203s) 短视频的信息蚕食与真实行动的经验价值罗根对尤因的困扰表达了不同的视角，他认为应当把 YouTube 与一般的社交媒体区分开来。在罗根眼中，YouTube 并不算传统意义上那种令人虚度光阴的社交媒体，它是一个庞大的知识学习库；他在疲惫时喜欢在 YouTube 上看一些古人类历史纪录片或者职业台球公开赛，这是一种有意义的放松，不会让人产生空虚感。相反，如果漫无目的地刷 Instagram 或 Twitter（X），往往会产生一种明知有害却无法自拔的负罪感。尤因对此表示完全赞同。作为一名正在建立个人影响力的职业格斗选手，他深知社交媒体是商业运营中不可或缺的工具，自己必须以“内容创作者”的身份去产出，而不是成为沉溺其中的“内容消费者”。两人痛击了现代快节奏短视频对人类心智的破坏——手指不断机械滑动，短平快的信息刺激让大脑的多巴胺持续无序爆发，不仅彻底摧毁了现代人的专注力，更剥夺了深层思考的能力。更深层的一层自我审视在于，尤因意识到算法容易让人产生一种“虚拟参与”的心理代偿。他反思道，自己在屏幕前看别人潜水打鱼的视频，虽然能全方位看清水下的一切细节、过足眼瘾，但这绝不等于自己真的跳进了冰冷的海水里搏击风浪。“真正的生命存在于你的实际行动和真实经历之中”，隔着屏幕观看别人的冒险只是在消费他人的生命体验，唯有合上屏幕、身体力行地去体验，才符合一名现代格斗家应有的武士生活方式。 - **平台属性认知**：YouTube 偏向于知识汲取与深层放松，而以图文刷屏为主的社交媒体则更具消耗性与成瘾性。 - **创作者与消费者心态**：职业选手需将社交媒体作为个人 IP 的商业杠杆进行输出，警惕反被平台算法吞噬。 - **虚拟代偿陷阱**：观看户外狩猎或格斗视频无法取代身体实践，真正的武士体验源自跳入水中、踏上赛场的肉身经历。 ### [01:45:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6315s) 远离屏幕的冥想与加州海岸的潜水射鱼对话从脱离手机屏幕与找回内在专注展开。埃辛·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）与乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）谈到，当现代人的注意力被手机屏幕彻底侵占时，人很难再深入自己的大脑去反思自我、提出真正深刻的问题并突破心智边界。罗根顺势切入尤因生活中的一项专注体验——潜水射鱼（Spearfishing）。尤因回忆道，自己曾经经常和一个伙伴搭档下海，但后来伙伴搬到了华盛顿州，自己下水的频率便减少了。他们通常在加州本地岸潜，比如科罗纳德尔马（Corona del Mar）以及附近一些结构丰富、藏有各种鱼类的隐秘海滩，或是前往拥有茂密巨藻林的拉古纳海滩（Laguna Beach）。尤因提到，自己目前多以岸潜为主，尚未尝试船潜。每当加州的龙虾季到来，他们就会潜入被称为“秘密宝穴”（honey holes）的岩礁深处，徒手将大龙虾抓出水面。罗根表示，自己那些热爱打猎的朋友常说，潜水射鱼在本质上其实就是“水下狩猎”，与传统坐在船边钓鱼有着天壤之别，那种手持鱼枪近距离锁定目标的体验，与陆地狩猎的精神内核完全相通。 - 潜水地点涵盖南加州科罗纳德尔马（Corona del Mar）与拉古纳海滩（Laguna Beach）附近的巨藻林生态区。 - 捕捞方式包括自由潜水徒手抓捕龙虾及手持鱼枪岸潜刺鱼。 --- ### [01:46:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6389s) 弓猎与步枪射击：原始技能与科技装备的对决尤因十分认同水下射鱼与狩猎的相似性，他热爱这种能自主抉择取舍的参与感，更沉迷于其中的原始（primitive）属性。他谈到自己对传统弓猎（Bow hunting）的向往远胜于步枪打猎：使用大口径高精度步枪时，猎人往往架在三四百甚至五百码开外的远距离，扣动扳机就能击毙猎物，猎物至死甚至都不知道猎人的存在；而复合弓狩猎则完全不同，猎人必须悄无声息地潜行潜伏至三十码左右的极限距离，还要时刻提防气味被风向带向猎物。尤因直言，他由衷敬佩这种依赖身心技能而非纯靠科技性能的原始挑战。罗根作为资深弓猎爱好者对此深表赞同。他分析道，如果打猎的纯粹目的是为了高效获取肉食（Meat hunt），步枪无疑是最佳途径，但若是为了追求极致的挑战，弓猎有着无法替代的魅力。罗根分享了一段亲身经历：大约一年前他在加州成功猎鹿后去打野猪，当时他已经整整一年半到两年没有碰过步枪，但在距离野猪90码左右时，他只是稳住姿态、平稳扣动扳机，便一枪将野猪当场放倒。罗根强调，步枪射击只要掌握基本要领就相对容易，但若换作弓猎，如果有一年半没练弓，他绝不敢贸然对动物放箭。弓猎需要常年累月射击靶子、用摄像机记录动作细节、反复纠正手肘高度等微小形体偏差。弓猎即使连续跋涉七天一无所获，置身自然本身的经历依然令人兴奋而充实。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 步枪狩猎与弓箭狩猎的核心差异 accDescr: 对比现代步枪狩猎的高效获取肉食机制与传统弓猎对近身潜行、技术纪律和心理沉淀的极高要求。 subgraph RIFLE["现代步枪狩猎 (Rifle Hunting)"] R1["超远距离射程 (90–500码)"] --> R2["依赖机械精度与瞄具支持"] R2 --> R3["高效获取肉食，对日常身体记忆依赖度相对较低"] end subgraph BOW["传统弓猎与水下潜射 (Bow & Spearfishing)"] B1["近距离潜行逼近 (约30码以内)"] --> B2["隐藏自身气味与微小动作"] B2 --> B3["严苛的身体技术雕琢与日复一日的肌肉记忆"] B3 --> B4["深度沉浸的大自然原始博弈与精神满足"] end ``` --- ### [01:49:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6563s) 自由潜水的魅力与泛滥成灾的美国野猪危机尤因谈到自由潜水射鱼的高境界时赞叹不已，那些顶级自由潜水员能够单次闭气四到五分钟，下潜至水下四十到七十英尺的深海沉船或暗礁结构中狙击大鱼，这种必须历经漫长严苛训练才能获得的高阶生存技能极具魅力。尤因补充道，自己平时酷爱户外运动，去年八月刚刚徒步登顶了惠特尼峰（Mount Whitney）。罗根随即大方表态，愿意为他牵线搭桥，带他正式入门打猎。两人感叹，亲自去荒野获取猎物并烹饪端上餐桌的饭菜，其心理滋味与超市购买的肉类完全不在一个维度。话题随即转向加州与德克萨斯州泛滥成灾的入侵物种——野猪（Feral swine）。尤因表示，对于这种破坏生态栖息地、摧毁地理植被的有害动物，他甚至支持坐上直升机用步枪对其进行航空歼灭。罗根指出德州的野猪数量高达数百万头，母猪一年能产仔两到三次，繁殖速度惊人。罗根回忆起自己在德州租用猎场的惊险体验：夜间穿行在树林里，灌木丛中野猪互相撕咬打斗的嚎叫声“听起来如同地狱里的恶魔和怪兽”，让人不寒而栗。当地所有农场几乎都深受野猪肆虐之害，每年给全美农作物造成数十亿美元的巨额经济损失。农场主为了灭猪用尽手段，罗根在沃思堡（Fort Worth）附近拥有一处大农场的朋友甚至邀请整队海豹突击队（Navy SEALs）前来把清剿野猪当作实战战术演练；坊间甚至有人使用双组分爆炸物（Tannerite）设置陷阱进行轰杀。最后，罗根让尤因猜测全美50个州中究竟有多少个州存在野猪踪迹，并现场使用Perplexity AI进行求证。罗根猜测是30个州，而Perplexity查询出的官方数据显示全美已有35个州记录存在野猪分布（feral swine presence），印证了这场人猪之间经济战与生态战的严峻态势。 - 野猪繁育能力极强，年产仔通常在两胎以上，在德州拥有数百万只的庞大种群。 - 野猪属于严重破坏地貌、农作物和本土物种栖息地的外来入侵物种，每年造成数十亿美元农业损失。 - 德州消灭野猪的手段极度开放，包括直升机空中射击、军方战术演练式围猎以及使用 Tannerite 爆炸物定点清除。 - 经现场查询，全美50个州中有35个州记录有野猪分布。 ### [01:53:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6810s) 野猪泛滥与家猪野化的生物学讨论对话切入美国各地的野猪泛滥问题。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出，野猪灾害的严重程度主要取决于当地是否有农田，西南部及南部农业州问题尤为严峻，包括德克萨斯州、俄克拉荷马州、路易斯安那州、佛罗里达州、佐治亚州、阿肯色州、密西西比州、阿拉巴马州和南卡罗来纳州。两人感叹野猪极度聪明且生命力顽强。伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）提到有些野猪体型巨大，能长到上千磅，但罗根纠正说，那种超大体型的通常并非纯种野猪，而是逃逸后在野外生存的家猪。罗根解释了家猪逃逸后令人称奇的野化现象：一旦重返自然，家猪的吻部会变长，皮毛会变得浓密粗糙，甚至会长出獠牙。尤因对此感到不可思议，认为这简直就像是“变形”（metamorphosize）。罗根补充道，猪原本就是从野猪驯化而来的，重回荒野后便迅速退化回野生状态，甚至传闻这种形态转变在独立觅食短短六周左右就会开始发生。为了核实这一说法，罗根借助 Perplexity 进行搜索。搜索结果显示：家猪在逃逸后数周至数月内，行为上确实会彻底野化（变得对人类极具戒心、改为夜间活动、机动性增强并能自行觅食存活），但并不会在单一个体的一生中发生翻天覆地的骨骼突变。不过，个体在野外生存过程中确实会变得更结实、更精瘦、体毛更密且更擅隐匿；而显著的解剖形态转变（如狭长头骨、巨大獠牙）主要是在多代繁殖的自然选择与环境筛选下逐渐形成的，而非单代内瞬间完成的生物学逆转。 - 农田集中的重灾州：德克萨斯、俄克拉荷马、路易斯安那、佛罗里达、佐治亚、阿肯色、密西西比、阿拉巴马、南卡罗来纳。 - 家猪野化机制：行为上可在数周至数月内迅速野化，但明显的头骨与大型骨骼变异依赖多代自然选择。 --- ### [01:56:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6977s) 巨型野猪传奇与透视拍照的套路罗根提到了著名的“野猪哥斯拉”（Hogzilla）照片，并指出许多流传甚广的巨型野猪照片其实是家猪吃得极肥后跑进野外被击毙的。尤因也指出，这类照片大多采用了“强制透视”（forced perspective）手法——猎人刻意站在猎物身后较远的位置，利用视觉错觉让野猪看起来比实际体型大上十倍。不过罗根也提到，有一张照片里野猪被拖拉机吊起，那种体型确实大得毋庸置疑。这让他们联想到非洲发现的长达20多英尺的巨型鳄鱼。两人浏览网络图片，看到一张标着“36英石”（36 stone，英国《镜报》报道风格）的野猪照片，以及2004至2005年间流传的据称达1200磅的 Hogzilla（该事件最初曾被怀疑是恶作剧，后被拍成纪录片）。随后罗根检索德克萨斯州有记录以来被捕获或击毙的最大野猪。搜索结果显示：德州最具可信度的纪录是一头重达790磅（约358公斤）的巨兽，于2015年1月在科曼奇县（Comanche County）德利昂（De Leon）附近被活捕，并在经认证的工业磨坊地磅上称重。罗根惊叹于790磅的恐怖概念，直呼如果全美荒野到处游荡着这种体型的野猪，局势简直不可想象。 - “野猪哥斯拉”（Hogzilla）：2004-2005年引发轰动的巨型野猪传说，估重曾传至1200磅。 - 德州官方可信纪录：2015年1月在科曼奇县德利昂捕获的790磅巨型公猪，经过认证地磅准确称重。 --- ### [01:57:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7032s) 潜水狩猎的鲨鱼隐患与陆地狩猎的初心在谈论水下巨兽时，尤因提到了自己热爱的自由潜水鱼叉捕猎（spearfishing）。他表示下水时最让人神经紧绷的就是明确知道鲨鱼就在身旁。虽然自己目前只遇到过并不危险的豹鲨（leopard shark），还从未正面遭遇过大白鲨。罗根打趣问他要是真撞见大白鲨，会不会直接退坑再也不下海，尤因笑称“真到了那一步才见分晓”，如果情况失控，很可能会彻底放弃，但目前潜水员也会配备类似 Ocean Guardian 这类电子驱鲨防护设备。随后话题转回陆地狩猎。尤因坦言自己此前从未真正去打过猎，童年顶多拿气枪打过鸟，但他非常渴望尝试，并觉得从鹿（deer）开始是最好的起点。在武器选择上，尤因透露自己平时玩的是反曲弓（recurve bow），不久前还参加了射箭比赛且成绩相当不错。然而，罗根作为资深弓猎手立刻制止了他拿反曲弓去狩猎的想法，直言反曲弓容错率太低、极具挑战性（"It's too frisky"），非得经过常年苦练、无数次狩猎累积才能具备人道猎杀的精准度，新手入门狩猎务必选用复合弓（compound bow）。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 弓猎入门与选拔建议 accDescr: 乔·罗根向伊森·尤因建议的从反曲弓比赛转向复合弓狩猎的进阶路径 subgraph User["伊森当前射箭背景"] A["反曲弓基础 (比赛成绩良好)"] end subgraph Advice["罗根的专业弓猎建议"] B{"是否适合直接狩猎？"} C["否：反曲弓容错极低，需极高经验积累"] D["转向：选购专业复合弓 (Compound Bow)"] end subgraph Fitting["专业调试流程 (Performance Archery)"] E["精准测量拉距 (Draw Length)"] F["依据身高校准窥孔 (Peep Sight)"] G["建立规范发力动作，杜绝错误肌肉记忆"] end A --> B B --> C B --> D D --> E D --> F E & F --> G ``` --- ### [02:00:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7248s) 复合弓的定制严谨性与格斗理念的相通罗根询问尤因住处距离圣地亚哥有多远，尤因回答不堵车大约一小时，堵车两小时。罗根极力推荐他去圣地亚哥的“Performance Archery”射箭专门店，称那是全美顶尖的专业箭馆之一，自己曾与著名射箭大师约翰·达德利（John Dudley）一同去过。罗根强调，选购复合弓绝对不能马虎，必须由顶尖技师根据射手身材精准量身定制拉距（draw length）和窥孔（peep sight）位置。罗根打了个生动的比方：“我不可能去拉乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）的弓，他身材那么高大，而我个子矮。”每个人的臂长、站姿和脸型锚点完全不同，设备必须严丝合缝匹配个人身体结构。罗根进一步将射箭与格斗技术进行了类比：射箭与格斗完全一样，第一步就必须学对动作，一旦初期养成不良习惯，未来想推倒重来极其困难，因为人在紧张时永远会退回到最初形成、感觉最舒适的错误动作中去。尤因对此深表认同，并提及自己也曾在其他场合尝试拉过复合弓。 ### [02:02:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7334s) 自给自足与末日准备意识：从皮套制作到荒野买地伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）坦言，除了格斗之外，自己热衷于学习各种五花八门的生活与生存技能。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）问他，这种不断学习新技能的做法，是为了在更宏观的层面上提升脑力、进而反哺格斗，还是纯粹出于个人爱好。伊森表示两者皆有，但核心驱动力在于“享受”以及追求“自立与自我维持”（self-reliance and self-perseverance）。在家里，他会自己动手制作 Kydex 热塑枪套和皮革枪套；他还保留着一辆老式皮卡，打算彻底将它拆解开来，从零开始学习机械维修；同时他还学习打猎以获取食物。伊森解释道，他脑子里始终有一种居安思危的危机意识，即“一旦世界乱套、大难临头（when shit hits the fan），我必须提前做好准备”。在他看来，一名真正的武者或格斗家绝不仅限于掌握徒手搏击，生存与应对极限环境同样是武者之道不可或缺的一环。自制成品带来的成就感也让他着迷。乔对此深表赞同，提到拥有自己的菜园种植无农药、无除草剂的纯天然食材是迈向自给自足的关键一步。伊森分享了自己的终极梦想：虽然妻子非常热爱南加州的生活，但他依然希望能在怀俄明州、蒙大拿州或爱达荷州购置数英亩土地，带上家人和挚友，打造一个集农作物种植、野生动物狩猎和水域垂钓于一体的自给自足家园，远离都市喧嚣，彻底融入自然。 - **自制手工与机械爱好**：在车库手工制作 Kydex 和皮革枪套；计划彻底拆解并组装一台老皮卡，自学汽车结构与维修。 - **生存理想乡规划**：意向在怀俄明、蒙大拿或爱达荷购置数英亩农牧地，依托天然河流或人工鱼塘实现捕鱼、打猎与耕作自给。 --- ### [02:04:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7481s) 加州训练阵地与传奇老将埃里克·保尔森的长发教训当乔询问伊森是否因家庭和格斗之外的事物而受限于加利福尼亚，或者是否曾考虑迁往他地全职备战时，伊森表示核心羁绊还是训练团队和教练资源。他常年在约巴林达的 The Den Training Center 以及富勒顿的 CSW（Combat Submission Wrestling）受训，师从传奇教练埃里克·保尔森（Erik Paulson）。伊森的父亲当年也曾追随埃里克训练，正是在父亲的引荐下，他加入了 CSW 并接受本（Ben）的实战特训。乔盛赞埃里克·保尔森是综合格斗界的“元老级传奇（OG）”，并回忆起埃里克早年在擂台上留着标志性长马尾的形象。两人聊到，在当时没有现代 MMA 规则限制的无限制格斗时代，“抓头发”是完全合法的进攻招式。埃里克在一场裸拳无道规赛事中，对手在缠斗中死死抓着他的马尾辫不放进行控制压制，比赛一结束，埃里克立刻去剃了短发，此后再也没留过长发。乔感叹虽然留飘逸长发很帅，但在那种残酷的规则下简直是给对手递把柄，正如 UFC 早期霍伊斯·格雷西（Royce Gracie）对战基莫·莱奥波尔多（Kimo Leopoldo）时，霍伊斯就一把扯住基莫的长发连续重击。 --- ### [02:06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7570s) 比赛着装与古早规则：抓短裤、铁头功与地面时限由此两人延伸到了现代选手的比赛装备问题。乔十分不解为什么现代拳手总抱怨对手非法拉扯短裤，却依然坚持穿高开衩、宽松的泰拳短裤：“既然抓短裤屡禁不止，为什么不干脆穿紧身裤（spandex）？为什么非要穿任何能让对手借力抓取的衣物？”伊森也认同紧身衣更加实用，现在的宽松格斗裤反而给了对手更多犯规扯拽的机会。在回看早期的 WCC（World Combat Championships）比赛录像时，两人感叹那个时代的野蛮规则：选手不仅可以徒手头撞（headbutts），甚至在特定规则下还能踢裆。乔指出，在允许头撞的年代，高水平摔跤手简直是所有人的噩梦——像马克·科尔曼（Mark Coleman）进入对手的防守半区（guard）后，凭借沉重的头撞便能直接砸碎对手的防线，下位选手几乎毫无逃脱空间。录像中还展示了 WCC 极其特殊的“地面时限（floor time count）”规则：当缠斗进入地面后，裁判会启动一分钟倒计时，倒计时结束如果无人终结比赛，裁判就会强行将选手拉起并恢复站立对峙。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Early MMA Rules vs Modern Tactical Dilemmas accDescr: 早期综合格斗原始规则与现代比赛装备选择的利弊对比 subgraph EarlyRules ["早期野蛮规则时代 (如 WCC / 早期 UFC)"] A["合法抓扯头发"] --> B["留长发/马尾辫极易被制伏 (如保尔森断发)"] C["允许地面头撞 (Headbutts)"] --> D["摔跤手下压头槌成为绝对统治级武器"] E["人工干预规则 (地面倒计时)"] --> F["强行打断地面布局，强令站立"] end subgraph ModernDebate ["现代战术与规则反思"] G["短裤形制选择"] --> H{"宽松开衩短裤 vs 紧身短裤"} H -->|宽松裤| I["给对手非法借力拉扯的机会"] H -->|紧身裤 (Spandex)| J["消除抓握借力点，更安全实用"] K["裁判强行站立 (Stand-ups)"] --> L["惩罚上位压制者，变相剥夺战术优势"] end ``` --- ### [02:08:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7680s) 炮轰强行站立规则与伦佐·格雷西的复仇之肘看到录像里的强制站立，乔·罗根情绪激动地直言：“我打心底里痛恨强行站立（stand-ups），恨之入骨。”他认为在一回合五分钟的比赛中，除非发生违规犯规，裁判绝不应人为干预缠斗。上位选手控制对手、借机喘息调整节奏、或者在耐心中寻找过位破绽，这些精妙的博弈在普通观众或平庸裁判眼中可能显得沉闷；但如果一名选手被死死压在下方无法脱身，那就说明压制方在真实交锋中正占据压倒性优势，人为站立不仅是对优势方的不公，更是为了迎合浮躁观众而破坏格斗本质。随后画面转到了 1995 年 WCC 经典战役——伦佐·格雷西（Renzo Gracie）对战荷兰柔道奥运铜牌得主本·斯皮克斯（Ben Spijkers）。乔绘声绘色地讲述了赛前的抓马内幕：斯皮克斯在赛前一整夜每隔 10 分钟就往伦佐的酒店房间打骚扰电话破坏其睡眠，逼得伦佐不得不把座机拔线塞进抽屉。斯皮克斯甚至穿着全套柔道道服（Gi）上场对决不穿道服的伦佐。被彻底激怒的伦佐迅速拿到后背优势（rear mount），以极其残暴的下砸肘击狠狠砸向斯皮克斯的后脑勺与脖颈，将其彻底砸溃后完成裸绞勒晕；比赛结束后，伦佐更是怒火未消地一脚踩在斯皮克斯的脖颈上。伊森看着这惊人的画面，不禁讨论起所谓“12点至6点（12-to-6）”垂直下砸肘的力学杀伤力，认为从垂直向下传递的肘部冲击力之深沉，远比人们想象的还要恐怖。 ### [02:10:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7838s) 12点到6点垂直肘击禁令的荒谬起源与古早赛事规则乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）与伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）探讨了综合格斗早期许多奇葩规则的诞生过程。谈及臭名昭著的“12点到6点垂直肘击”（12-to-6 elbow）禁令时，罗根分享了资深裁判“大约翰”麦卡锡（Big John McCarthy）讲述的内幕故事：当年运动委员会的相关官员在评估是否批准综合格斗比赛时，凌晨两点在 ESPN 电视节目里看到空手道碎砖表演，以为那种垂直下砸的手势能劈断一堆砖头，便惊慌失措地认为这种打击“威力太大、会打死人”，从而直接将其定为非法。这导致选手连站立状态下的垂直下砸肘击都不能使用，必须带有一点角度才能合规，罗根直斥这是“史上最蠢的规定”。事实上，依靠转肩发力的横向摆肘力量要大得多，垂直肘击主要是针对防守蜷缩时的纵向切割与落点选择。尤因随后翻出了古早格斗赛事世界格斗锦标赛（World Combat Championship, WCC）的奇葩赛制：比赛分为缠斗组与打击组两个半区，缠斗组在地面最多可缠斗十分钟，而打击组选手倒地后两分钟内就会被叫起，甚至打击组比赛中禁止使用降伏技，最终由两个组别的冠军打决赛。罗根感叹这发生在1995年左右，正是 UFC 在1993年掀起狂潮后各家赛事试图标新立异的产物。 - **12点到6点垂直肘击禁令成因**：运动委员会官员看深夜电视上的空手道劈砖表演后产生误解，误认为垂直下砸是杀伤力最恐怖的招式。 - **发力力学对比**：转肩横向摆肘能够充分调用躯干和肩部转动，产生比垂直肘击大得多的打击力道。 - **1995年 WCC 锦标赛规则**： - 缠斗组（Grappler Bracket）：允许地面缠斗长达10分钟。 - 打击组（Striker Bracket）：地面时间限制为2分钟，严禁使用降伏技。 - 决赛由两组胜者对决，但因赛制过于混乱仅举办了一届。 --- ### [02:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7950s) 纯站立格斗的商业潜力与白大拿对踢拳的成见两人聊到当前格斗界重新涌现纯站立比赛的趋势。尤因提到 ONE 冠军赛（ONE Championship）成功将 MMA、泰拳和踢拳融合在同一赛事体系中，甚至打造了如狄米崔斯·约翰逊（Demetrious Johnson）对阵罗唐（Rodtang Jitmuangnon）的特殊规则混合战。罗根透露，多年来他一直试图说服 UFC 总裁白大拿（Dana White）在 UFC 旗下引入纯站立比赛，尤其是当现场观众对地面缠斗报以嘘声时，纯打击对决将极具吸引力。然而，白大拿对美国踢拳始终抱有根深蒂固的偏见，认为这项运动在美国“带有一股臭味”。罗根解释称，白大拿的成见源于上世纪美国职业空手道协会（PKA）时代。当时的踢拳不准踢腿，所有攻击必须在腰部以上，整体技术水平参差不齐，除了里克·鲁弗斯（Rick Roufus）等少数顶尖高手外，大部分比赛观赏性差，从未取得像职业拳击那样的商业成功。尽管如此，罗根依然坚信纯站立格斗是目前全球体育市场中尚未被完全开发、潜力最大的蓝海。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 站立格斗在美国的发展与 UFC 的态度 accDescr: 展示白大拿因早期 PKA 踢拳历史而对在 UFC 引入踢拳产生顾虑的逻辑流 subgraph HistoricalBias["历史成见（PKA 时代）"] A["70-80年代 PKA 美式踢拳"] --> B["限制腰部以上打击 / 禁用低扫腿"] B --> C["整体技术参差 / 商业影响力远逊于职业拳击"] end subgraph RoganPitch["罗根的提议与市场潜力"] D["地面缠斗易引来部分现场观众嘘声"] E["ONE 冠军赛站立与混合规则大获成功"] D & E --> F["罗根多次游说白大拿引入纯站立赛事"] end subgraph UFCStance["UFC 现状与态度"] C --> G["白大拿认为美式踢拳缺乏品牌号召力"] F --> G G --> H["UFC 仅涉足 Zuffa Boxing，未开辟踢拳赛道"] end ``` --- ### [02:13:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8030s) 格斗人才版图与“冠军跨组织对决”的商业现实谈到行业竞争格局，罗根与尤因对当下 ONE 冠军赛、PFL 以及杰克·保罗（Jake Paul）的 MVP 推广公司与 Netflix 的合作表示支持。罗根指出，整个格斗界需要更多赛事平台让选手发光发热，因为除了 UFC 之外，全球范围内的顶尖格斗人才储备极其庞大，无论是来自达吉斯坦的凶狠战将（如在 PFL 征战的穆罕默德），还是来自俄罗斯和巴西各地的无名猛兽，很多人仅仅是缺少登上聚光灯舞台的机会。对于拳迷渴望看到的“组织冠军跨界互打”，尤因认为如果一名冠军在 UFC 卫冕多次、肃清量级后，去挑战其他组织的头把交椅将极具含金量；但罗根直言这在商业上“绝对不可能发生”。UFC 作为全球格斗无可争议的第一品牌，在普通大众眼中几乎就等同于 MMA 本身，就像大家把棉签统称为“Q-tip”一样。跨组织对决对 UFC 而言风险极大而回报微薄，除非竞争对手（如 MVP 或 PFL）能够成长到拥有与 UFC 匹敌的明星阵容和全球知名度，双方联合推广像“梅威瑟对阵帕奎奥”那种世纪超级大战，商业逻辑才可能成立。 - **泛格斗平台生态**：PFL 与 Jake Paul 创立的 MVP 展开合作并引入 Netflix 转播，有助于扩大 MMA 观众盘。 - **UFC 品牌垄断性认知**：在泛格斗泛受众（casual fans）心中，UFC 已经成为该运动代名词（“这不是棉签，这就是 Q-tip”）。 - **冠军跨组织战受阻核心**：UFC 承担全部品牌溢价与声誉风险，一旦自家冠军告负将得不偿失。 --- ### [02:16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8190s) 康纳·麦格雷戈的职业黄昏与往昔武士道心境话题随后转向终极格斗超级巨星康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）。在讨论康纳是否还会重返八角笼时，尤因推测他可能只会再打一场退役战；罗根则认为康纳依然渴望回归，毕竟他现在大概37、38岁，职业生涯充其量只剩下大约两年的窗口期。虽然许多老将由于生计所迫而不得不死撑在擂台上，但康纳早已财富自由，重返赛场的动机更多在于趁着自己身体尚可再战一次。罗根强调，外界往往低估了顶级格斗者的心性，康纳曾在对阵埃迪·阿尔瓦雷斯（Eddie Alvarez）的封神之战中展现出宛如进入“黑客帝国”（Matrix）般的超凡统治力：在毫厘之间后仰躲过攻击，并以完美的精准度瞬间反击。然而现实极为残酷，康纳的双膝十字韧带（ACL）均撕裂过，两侧半月板严重受损，加上此前遭遇胫骨骨折等毁灭性伤病，他的身体机能早已千疮百孔。最核心的问题并非他能否做到，而是如今沉溺于奢靡派对的他，是否还愿意付出非人的汗水，重新找回当年那种将全身心献给训练的“禅宗与武士道”（zen of bushido）心境——而那份纯粹的武士精神，恰恰是他最初征服全世界拳迷的灵魂所在。 ### [02:18:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8335s) 康纳·麦格雷戈的战士人设与量级难题对话从康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）身上所具备的独特吸引力切入。伊森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）和乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）谈到，公众始终被康纳那种“真正的战士人设”所吸引，但每当涉及康纳能否重回巅峰时，大家心里都会打个问号。虽然大家都希望相信康纳能创造奇迹，但康纳极其擅长表达，他的言辞总能让人深信不疑，可局外人根本无法得知他在幕后训练营里的真实状态。罗根感叹，康纳对整个格斗运动的历史进程极为关键，他作为划时代的人物，为这项运动带来了不可替代的巨大关注度。回溯到十多年前——特别是2015年12月康纳一拳KO若泽·奥尔多（José Aldo）夺冠，以及随后击败埃迪·阿尔瓦雷斯（Eddie Alvarez）成为双冠王，那正是他名声达到顶峰的时刻。然而十年光阴流逝，充斥着酒精、派对和纸醉金迷的奢华生活，早已消磨掉了清晨早起跑步的自律。两人进一步探讨了康纳现在的身体状况和量级选择。从当年的145磅（羽量级）一路升到170磅（次中量级），康纳甚至公开叫阵过卡洛斯·普拉特斯（Carlos Prates）和迈克尔·莫拉莱斯（Michael Morales）这类次中量级杀手。罗根与尤因均指出，次中量级全是身材极其魁梧的猛兽，像伊恩·加里（Ian Machado Garry）在与康纳实战对练时，体型明显比康纳大上一整圈。实际上康纳的骨架算不上真正的高大，只是体型略显厚实，如果讲求实际战斗力，155磅（轻量级）大概是他能承受的体型极限。但问题在于，以康纳现在的年龄和心态，他是否还愿意去承受严酷的减重折磨？如果不想减重，最好的选择或许是与迈克尔·钱德勒（Michael Chandler）在170磅打上一场谢幕战。相比之下，如果去打麦克斯·霍洛威（Max Holloway）则极为凶险，因为霍洛威策略极其明确且体能深不见底，一旦康纳前两回合无法终结，就会彻底被霍洛威的狂轰滥炸“淹没”。 - 康纳·麦格雷戈于2015年12月一拳KO若泽·奥尔多，正式确立超级巨星地位。 - 两人认为170磅充斥着如迈克尔·莫拉莱斯和卡洛斯·普拉特斯这样体型巨大的杀手，康纳在此量级缺乏骨架优势。 --- ### [02:22:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8540s) 迈克尔·钱德勒的硬汉打法与贝拉托名局随后话题转向迈克尔·钱德勒。钱德勒在与康纳共同录制《终极斗士》（The Ultimate Fighter）节目并经历了一通口水战后，在无赛可打的状态下硬生生等待了康纳近两年时间，结果比赛迟迟未能成行。尤因和罗根一致认为，钱德勒是一位身体素质极其强悍的野兽型选手，但他在技术精细度上确实不如霍洛威等人。钱德勒在八角笼里往往像一条“狂犬”一样冲出来疯狂拼拳，严重依赖自己与生俱来的爆发力和力量，缺乏精密的刺拳铺垫与战术算计。罗根指出，在钱德勒这个职业生涯阶段，想要改变打法已经不现实了。对于新一代只看UFC的拳迷，罗根强烈推荐大家回顾钱德勒早年在Bellator赛事中与埃迪·阿尔瓦雷斯（Eddie Alvarez）展开的一番战与二番战。在那两场载入史册的惨烈血战中，双方数次击倒彼此跌入擂台地面，场面近乎疯狂。然而，罗根也强调，随着年龄增长，选手无法永远依赖年轻巅峰时期的惊人爆发力，身体变慢后必须学会用头脑去打拳，正如罗伊·琼斯（Roy Jones Jr.）等老将所面临的转型困境一样。尽管钱德勒在对阵贾斯汀·盖奇（Justin Gaethje）和达斯汀·普瓦里尔（Dustin Poirier）的恶战中未能取胜，但他展现出的坚韧品质依然让比赛极具观赏性。 --- ### [02:24:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8670s) 艺术家打法毛里西奥·鲁菲与“UFC蝙蝠侠”阿尔曼·萨鲁基安 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Mauricio Ruffy vs Arman Tsarukyan Matchup Analysis accDescr: Analysis of the clash of styles between Ruffy striking and Tsarukyan elite wrestling. subgraph Striker["毛里西奥·鲁菲 (Mauricio Ruffy)"] A["艺术化站立打击风格"] --> B["超近距离新月踢 / 转身鞭拳"] end subgraph Wrestler["阿尔曼·萨鲁基安 (Arman Tsarukyan)"] C["顶尖摔跤与地面压制能力"] --> D["场外高曝光度 / 充裕家境支持"] end Striker -->|核心防线: 避免被带入地面| Match["洛杉矶焦点大战"] Wrestler -->|核心策略: 摔法压制瓦解站立| Match ``` 对话随后转到了冉冉升起的新星毛里西奥·鲁菲（Mauricio Ruffy）身上。两人盛赞鲁菲在站立打击上的艺术感与惊人创造力，认为在纯站立对决中目前很少有人能压制他。鲁菲不仅在比赛中赏心悦目，在实战训练流出的视频中也极其惊艳，甚至能在相距仅仅两英寸的贴身距离内甩出高难度的新月踢或转身鞭拳。提到鲁菲即将对决的强敌阿尔曼·萨鲁基安（Arman Tsarukyan），罗根与尤因均认为这在洛杉矶将是一场火星撞地球般的对决，而鲁菲唯一的巨大考验，就是能否防住萨鲁基安那堪称MMA界顶级的摔跤技术。最后，两人聊到了萨鲁基安在赛场之外独特的个人背景与运作方式。在UFC没有安排比赛的空窗期，萨鲁基安非常聪明地通过跨界摔跤比赛（如RAF）以及与Twitch顶级主播互动来维持极高的网络热度。更特别的是，萨鲁基安出身极其富有，这在崇尚“苦出身”的格斗界非常罕见。尤因分析道，家境优渥通常会带来两极分化的结果：要么因为享受优渥设施而沉沦懒散，要么利用所有优质资源将自己打造成极致的精英。萨鲁基安显然属于后者，不仅练就了一身炸裂的肌肉与极其坚韧的斗志，在场外也活成了“UFC界的布鲁斯·韦恩”（Bruce Wayne）——他不仅常年开法拉利，在他的YouTube训练纪录片里，每到一个新的城市（例如洛杉矶备战），第一件事就是租一辆兰博基尼代步，其雄厚的财力与顶级的竞技状态并存，令人啧啧称奇。 ### [02:26:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8812s) 站立系选手的防摔觉醒：从阿尔曼到毛里西奥·鲁菲乔·罗根与埃森·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）探讨了顶尖选手的摔跤与地面防守能力。谈及阿尔曼·萨鲁基安（Arman Tsarukyan）时，两人一致认为他像一头不折不扣的“野兽”，比赛风格毫无瑕疵，意志极其坚韧，绝不轻言放弃。萨鲁基安在早期短通知替补出战伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫（Islam Makhachev）时，便打出了一场堪称混乱激烈的血战，让马哈切夫经历了除生涯早期被爆冷KO之外最艰难、最受考验的一战。作为轻量级顶尖竞争者，萨鲁基安的全能技术令人叹服。随后话题转向毛里西奥·鲁菲（Mauricio Ruffy）。鲁菲在八角笼内面临的真正潜在危机，在于能否防住顶级缠斗高手的抱摔——正如贝努瓦·圣丹尼斯（Benoît Saint Denis）这类精英缠斗手展现出的强大下潜压迫。对于纯粹的站立打击系选手而言，备战的核心往往并非要成为全知全能的摔跤宗师，而是必须把防摔打磨到极致。万一被拖入地面，也必须掌握一两套行之有效的下位逃脱技术或翻转（sweep），具备迅速起立回到站立姿态的能力；一旦在下位陷入停滞，整场比赛就彻底交代了。对于多数顶尖打击者来说，往往需要经历一次在地面被彻底压制支配的惨痛教训，才能迎来真正的警醒。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 打击系选手地面防御与脱困逻辑 accDescr: 展示站立选手面对顶级缠斗手时的核心防御路线 subgraph Defense ["防守阶段"] A["顶住下潜抱摔 (Takedown Defense)"] --> B{"是否被摔倒?"} end subgraph GroundEscape ["地面脱困阶段"] B -- "是" --> C["防范锁技绞杀 (Block Submissions)"] C --> D["下位逃脱 / 起桥翻转 (Escapes & Sweeps)"] D --> E["迅速重回站立 (Get Back to Feet)"] end subgraph Result ["战术结果"] B -- "否" --> F["维持站立打击节奏"] E --> F end ``` --- ### [02:28:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8903s) 西里尔·盖恩的重量级身法与“篮球步法” 乔·罗根与埃森·尤因探讨了地面被碾压后的“当头棒喝”，并以西里尔·盖恩（Ciryl Gane）为例。盖恩此前在地面战中受制于弗朗西斯·纳干诺（Francis Ngannou），随后在对阵乔恩·琼斯（Jon Jones）时更是遭遇了彻底的降维打击——琼斯几乎未挨一拳便迅速完成抱摔并锁死降服。这种干脆利落的失利成为极具冲击力的清醒剂，逼迫选手彻底审视短板。此后盖恩强势反弹，即便在重量级面对类似亚历克斯·佩雷拉（Alex Pereira）这样站立造诣极高的神级打击者，盖恩也展现出了无可替代的独特统治力。盖恩在重量级堪称“击中对手而不被击中”的典范，赛场上甚至从未见过他被真正打晃过。他身上带着一种近乎通才的天赋，结合了法式踢拳（Savate）与空手道的弹跳移动，进退步法轻盈无比。尤因提到，打篮球也是塑造这种步法神技的秘诀之一——盖恩过去经常打篮球，对于一个大体量重量级选手而言，篮球运动所需要的持续爆发变向、手眼协调以及手脚联动的节奏感，能极大反哺MMA擂台上的步法。两人感叹，重量级历史上除了巅峰期脚下极轻快的特拉维斯·布朗（Travis Browne）能略作对比外，盖恩的灵活性与移动水准在重量级几乎独一档，且兼具一击必杀的重击破坏力。 - **地面惨败的唤醒效应**：盖恩被琼斯速杀后深刻反思，彻底改变了心理与备战状态。 - **篮球交叉训练的优势**：持续变向、快速爆发与手脚联动为重量级选手提供了不可思议的敏捷度。 - **独树一帜的重量级移动**：不同于传统笨重的大级别对决，盖恩将轻快跳跃的踢拳与空手道式距离控制发挥到了极致。 --- ### [02:30:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9033s) 心理战与垃圾话：愤怒如何摧毁技术在比较大级别选手的速度与敏捷时，两人谈到了霍基特（Hokit）。虽然霍基特拥有惊人的速度与敏捷度，但纯粹的打击移动水准仍无法与盖恩相提并论；霍基特的真正杀手锏在于顶尖的摔跤功底与狂暴的垃圾话心理施压。这种通过言语摧毁对手心态的手段，恰如当年的康纳·麦格雷戈（Conor McGregor）。麦格雷戈通过赛前无休止的心灵折磨，让何塞·奥尔多（José Aldo）等一众强敌背负“绝不能输给他”的沉重包袱走入八角笼。心理战会让对手完全脱离舒适区，身体变得极度僵硬戒备，不敢承担任何合理的战术风险。愤怒更会导致睡眠与情绪崩盘：“你头天晚上可能根本睡不好，因为你恨透了这个混蛋。”一踏入擂台，被激怒的选手脑子里只想一记大摆拳把对手的脑袋轰下来，完全抛弃了精密的战术与技术细节。这种情绪失控会瞬间吸干平日苦练的所有精妙技巧。 --- ### [02:32:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9139s) 车库里的修行：精神导师与武者哲学乔·罗根发问：MMA界是否应该更加系统地传授心理层面的控制力，教选手如何守住内心的平静、不受外界干扰？尤因坦言，心理调节因人而异，虽然很多人求助于运动表现心理咨询师，但天生的大脑特质与残酷艰难的生活阅历才是最真实的磨砺。尤因分享了自己极为特别的备战日常。他的第三位核心教练是拳击教练戴尔·罗亚尔（Dale Royal），两人就在罗亚尔家的车库和前院训练。在正式出拳前，他们经常先坐下来深聊半小时，探讨世界、圣经福音中的灵性以及神学层面的意义。罗亚尔擅长反曲弓（尤因曾同他一起参加反曲弓射箭比赛），也是一位资深的皮具手艺人。两人总是一同探讨何为真正的“战士之道”（Warrior Mindset）——在面对生活与擂台上的狂澜时，如何收摄心神、掌控情绪并全身而退。尤因笑称自己的妻子常调侃他：“你跑去就是坐在那儿跟他闲聊瞎晃。”但他总会认真回应：“宝贝，这就是训练的一部分，我们在探讨心理哲学。”这种对话让格斗在他心中升华到了精神与灵性维度。此外，尤因还提到了对自己心智塑造极深的名宿传奇埃里克·保尔森（Erik Paulson），以及每次在边角声嘶力竭、甘愿一同浴血奋战的本·琼斯（Ben Jones），正是这群导师构建起了他内心坚不可摧的擂台信念。 ### [02:35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9300s) 格斗中的情绪掌控与冷酷心态埃辛·尤因（Ethyn Ewing）深入探讨了在训练馆内承受身心磨难的重要性。他指出，顶尖的教练和实战伙伴会在训练垫上通过极端的肉体与精神压力来锤炼选手；只有真正熬过这种考验，才有资格走上擂台放手一搏。在他看来，格斗的竞技表现有着多重维度，而心理与情绪的控制完全是内在的修行，必须作为每日训练的独立课题来专心钻研。如果一名选手因为微不足道的挑衅或打击就情绪失控、盲目发狂，那么在残酷的格斗世界里，这种表现就“犹如幼儿园的孩子一样幼稚”，那一刻其实已经输掉了一切。尤因进一步剖析了高水平格斗的构成要素：体能储备、技术体系、放松状态，以及最为关键的情绪管理。普通人的本能反应往往是挨揍后立刻产生“我一定要马上还手”的报复冲动，但真正卓越的格斗家在遭受重击时甚至不会动一丝杂念，心率连一点波动都不会有。他们能够彻底摒弃情绪的干扰，无论遭遇何种局面，战术规划都雷打不动，冷静地进行严密的防守与反击，始终专注于执行既定策略。这种极致的专注与处变不惊，正是顶尖格斗家与普通选手的本质分水岭。 - **格斗的多维构成**：体能（Cardio）、技术储备（Skillset）、身体与心理的放松状态（Being relaxed），以及深层的情绪管理机制。 - **本能反应与职业修养的反差**：业余反应是挨拳后情绪上头、急于还击；顶尖选手的特质则是心率保持平稳，严格执行战术，“精准防守，按部就班”，绝不偏离既定比赛策略。 ### [02:36:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9368s) 节目收尾与未来擂台展望乔·罗根对尤因展现出的沉稳心态大加赞赏，称赞这是“极其出色的思维境界”，并坦言非常期待尽快看到他再次登台角逐。两人在轻松愉悦的氛围中互致谢意，尤因表示这次播客对谈是一次非常美妙的经历。罗根由衷地祝福尤因未来的职业生涯一切顺利，并期待不久后能在 UFC 解说席上亲自为他的比赛进行现场解说，随后以热情的道别正式结束了本期节目。 ## Notable quotes > [01:27:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5276s) 尽快聘请专业营养师（hire a nutritionist ASAP）。 — 伊森·尤因 > [01:27:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5276s) 减重是一场马拉松，而不是短跑冲刺。 — 伊森·尤因 > [01:31:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5491s) 要更聪明地减重，而不是盲目蛮干（work smarter, not harder）。 — 乔·罗根 > [01:43:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6203s) 看别人潜水打鱼的视频，永远无法替代肉身跳入冰冷海水中的真实体验。 — 伊森·尤因 > [01:57:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7032s) 用反曲弓去狩猎太轻率冒险了（It's too frisky）。 — 乔·罗根 > [02:00:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7248s) 人在极度紧张时，永远会退回到最初形成、但最舒适的错误动作中。 — 乔·罗根 > [02:02:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7334s) 必须做好充分准备，以防极端灾难降临（when shit hits the fan）。 — 伊森·尤因 > [02:08:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7680s) 我打心底里强烈痛恨裁判强行叫起选手（I hate stand-ups with a passion）。 — 乔·罗根 > [02:16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8190s) 在坐拥巨额财富与奢靡生活后，极难重拾当年全神贯注的禅宗武士心境（zen of bushido）。 — 乔·罗根 > [02:22:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8540s) 老将的爆发力衰退后，必须学会用头脑作战。 — 乔·罗根 > [02:35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9300s) 在八角笼里受到挑衅或打击就发怒盲动，如同幼儿园孩子般幼稚。 — 乔·罗根 ## Mentioned 伊森·尤因 (Ethyn Ewing), 乔·罗根 (Joe Rogan), 阿尔贾曼·斯特林 (Aljamain Sterling), 摩西·伊陶马 (Moses Itauma), 菲利普·赫尔戈维奇 (Filip Hrgović), 迈克·泰森 (Mike Tyson), 迪利安·怀特 (Dillian Whyte), 杰梅因·富兰克林 (Jermaine Franklin), 赫尔温塔·戴维斯 (Gervonta Davis), 鲍勃·阿鲁姆 (Bob Arum), 金童推广 (Golden Boy Promotions), 卡内洛·阿尔瓦雷斯 (Canelo Alvarez), 《叶隐闻书》, 山本常朝, 《五轮书》, 宫本武藏, YouTube, Instagram, X (原Twitter), 美国海军海豹突击队 (Navy SEALs), Tannerite炸药, Perplexity AI, 霍吉拉 (Hogzilla), Ocean Guardian (驱鲨器), Performance Archery, 约翰·达德利 (John Dudley), 乔恩·琼斯 (Jon Jones), The Den训练中心, CSW (降服摔跤训练馆), 埃里克·保尔森 (Erik Paulson), 霍伊斯·格雷西 (Royce Gracie), 基莫·莱奥波多 (Kimo Leopoldo), WCC (世界格斗锦标赛), 马克·科尔曼 (Mark Coleman), 伦佐·格雷西 (Renzo Gracie), 本·斯皮克斯 (Ben Spijkers), “大约翰”麦卡锡 (Big John McCarthy), ESPN, ONE冠军赛 (ONE Championship), 狄米崔斯·约翰逊 (Demetrious Johnson), 罗唐 (Rodtang Jitmuangnon), 白大拿 (Dana White), PKA (职业空手道协会), 瑞克·鲁福斯 (Rick Roufus), PFL, MVP (Most Valuable Promotions), 杰克·保罗 (Jake Paul), Netflix, 康纳·麦格雷戈 (Conor McGregor), 埃迪·阿尔瓦雷斯 (Eddie Alvarez), 何塞·奥尔多 (José Aldo), 卡洛斯·普拉特斯 (Carlos Prates), 迈克尔·莫拉莱斯 (Michael Morales), 伊恩·马查多·加里 (Ian Machado Garry), 迈克尔·钱德勒 (Michael Chandler), 麦克斯·霍洛威 (Max Holloway), 《终极斗士》 (The Ultimate Fighter), Bellator, 贾斯汀·盖奇 (Justin Gaethje), 达斯汀·普瓦里尔 (Dustin Poirier), 小罗伊·琼斯 (Roy Jones Jr.), 毛里西奥·鲁菲 (Mauricio Ruffy), 阿尔曼·萨鲁基安 (Arman Tsarukyan), 伊斯兰姆·马哈切夫 (Islam Makhachev), 西里尔·盖恩 (Ciryl Gane), 弗朗西斯·纳干诺 (Francis Ngannou), 亚历克斯·佩雷拉 (Alex Pereira), 戴尔·罗亚尔 (Dale Royal), 本·琼斯 (Ben Jones) ## Video description Joe sits down with Ethyn Ewing, a professional mixed martial artist competing in the UFC’s bantamweight division. https://www.professorfinessermma.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Use code ROGAN at https://BlueChew.com to get 10% OFF + Free Overnight Shipping on your first order. Visit https://superpower.com/rogan for $50 off your membership. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q)

Source quotes

[87:56] 伊森·尤因: 尽快聘请专业营养师（hire a nutritionist ASAP）。 [87:56] 伊森·尤因: 减重是一场马拉松，而不是短跑冲刺。 [91:31] 乔·罗根: 要更聪明地减重，而不是盲目蛮干（work smarter, not harder）。 [103:23] 伊森·尤因: 看别人潜水打鱼的视频，永远无法替代肉身跳入冰冷海水中的真实体验。 [117:12] 乔·罗根: 用反曲弓去狩猎太轻率冒险了（It's too frisky）。 [120:48] 乔·罗根: 人在极度紧张时，永远会退回到最初形成、但最舒适的错误动作中。 [122:14] 伊森·尤因: 必须做好充分准备，以防极端灾难降临（when shit hits the fan）。 [128:00] 乔·罗根: 我打心底里强烈痛恨裁判强行叫起选手（I hate stand-ups with a passion）。 [136:30] 乔·罗根: 在坐拥巨额财富与奢靡生活后，极难重拾当年全神贯注的禅宗武士心境（zen of bushido）。 [142:20] 乔·罗根: 老将的爆发力衰退后，必须学会用头脑作战。 [155:00] 乔·罗根: 在八角笼里受到挑衅或打击就发怒盲动，如同幼儿园孩子般幼稚。

Source quotes

[0:01] Ethyn Ewing: To watch guys go in there and just brawl it out and say let's see who can take more punches before the other guy drops is just silly to me... hit and not get hit and champions don't take return fire. [24:27] Joe Rogan: That last cut to 45 was a nightmare. It was a horror show. And so when he got in there with Ilia and then you're fighting El Matador... you want to talk about technique, right? Technique and his striking, the smoothness and efficiency, and the one-punch go-night power. [33:33] Ethyn Ewing: I was doing food eating championship training... killing double doubles and 3x3s. [77:14] Joe Rogan: Their approach was, 'You already know how to fight, so forget about fight training. We're just going to give you the most insane gas tank you've ever had.' [83:15] Joe Rogan: With MVP, [Kevin Holland] was just stumped... 'What the fuck am I doing? I can't even touch this guy.' That is a giant skill set. [126:36] Joe Rogan: I hate standups. I hate them. I hate them with all my heart. I don't think if in a five-minute round you should ever be stood up... If a guy can hold you down and you can't get up, if you don't like it and you can't get up, then he's winning, right? [136:30] Joe Rogan: A guy like Conor is a special guy... To be there live when he was doing that against Eddie Alvarez, I was like, 'Good lord.' He was countering instantaneous with perfect precision. He was on fire.

Original transcript

[0:01] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. [0:03] >> The Joe Rogan Experience. [0:06] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY [0:08] NIGHT. All day, [0:12] >> man. Good to see you. [0:13] >> It's good to be here. [0:14] >> I like your shirt. [0:15] >> I appreciate it. [0:16] >> Professor Finesser. Is that your [0:18] Professor Finesser line? [0:19] >> This is one of my designs of my uh [0:21] Professor Finesser line. Got the cross [0:23] guard there. [0:24] >> I like it. [0:24] >> Little dope. [0:26] >> We got a couple different symbols. [0:28] Something that I'm building up. I want [0:29] to get out to the people. [0:30] >> It's a cool nickname. [0:32] >> It's uh it's unique for sure. It's It [0:35] came about a funny way, but I like it. [0:38] It's the mantra that it brings to the [0:40] fight game and to who I am is is [0:42] perfect. [0:43] >> Well, it's finesse and you fight with a [0:45] lot of finesse, you know. Um so, we [0:47] should start from your UFC debut because [0:51] uh that was when you really burst onto [0:52] the scene. You fought this guy Malcolm [0:55] Wellmaker who's a killer, vicious [0:57] knockout puncher and had a ton of hype [1:00] behind him because of his performance. [1:02] Was it the Contender Series where you [1:03] had the big performance? [1:04] >> Uh it was all three of them. [1:06] >> Contender Series. He knocked that dude [1:07] out flat and then uh [1:09] >> I don't remember who it was second, but [1:11] then it was Chris Moutino was the third [1:12] one [1:13] >> that that he knocked out like that. [1:15] >> And um you put on a show, man, and [1:17] nobody had heard of you. And that's one [1:19] of the craziest things about this sport [1:21] is that there can be a guy like you [1:23] that's learning and growing on in the [1:25] shadows and then they get the call and [1:28] on I think it was two days notice. [1:31] >> Yeah. [1:32] >> So two days notice you fought above your [1:34] weight cuz you're bantamweight normally [1:36] and you fought a featherweight and dude [1:39] you just it wasn't just that you fought [1:42] a guy who was this vicious striker. It [1:44] was the calmness and the technique and [1:46] the smoothness of it all that was so [1:48] impressive. And I was like, "This guy's [1:51] different." Like you, the way you fight [1:52] is very intelligent. And I love that. I [1:56] love watching a guy who's just all [1:58] technique and and movement. And you're [2:01] you're the epitome of that. [2:03] >> Ah, I appreciate it. Um, that's [2:05] something I pride myself on. That's I [2:07] think [2:09] maybe it's because I've I've delved into [2:11] more of a boxing realm with perfecting [2:14] the striking and and really focusing on [2:17] um that that technical aspect, that [2:20] style. But yeah, it's to me to watch [2:23] guys go in there and just brawl it out [2:25] and say uh you know, let's see who can [2:27] take more punches before the other guy [2:29] drops is is just silly to me. It's it's [2:32] like you said, I like to fight with [2:34] finesse. I like to hit and not get hit [2:36] and champions don't take return fire. [2:38] So, um I hope to have a lot of longevity [2:41] with this game and uh yeah, that's why I [2:43] fight that way. [2:44] >> That is the formula for longevity. I was [2:46] having a conversation with Fedor, the [2:48] guy who was sitting next to us, who's uh [2:50] one of the best pool players in the [2:52] world, and he's getting we just got back [2:53] from ways to well, so shout out to [2:55] Brighgam and all the people at Ways to [2:57] Well for taking care of us. Um, but he [3:00] uh and I were talking about fighters and [3:02] about it's very similar to I think [3:05] everything whether it's pool or golf or [3:08] and there's the people that really focus [3:10] on technique and fundamentals and and [3:14] really objectively look at what they're [3:16] doing and refine it. And we were talking [3:18] about guys who just stand in front of [3:20] each other and blast each other. I'm [3:21] like, look, the crowd will cheer. They [3:24] will love to see you, but your career [3:26] will be shorter. And the end will be [3:28] bad. [3:29] >> The end will be bad and and then you'll [3:32] probably fight past the time where you [3:34] should and no one's going to stop you. [3:36] They're going to maybe you have one or [3:38] two close friends that'll tell you when [3:39] are you going to hang them up, but a lot [3:41] of coaches let guys fight way too long. [3:44] And I think the organization lets guys [3:46] fight way too long. There's a few guys [3:48] that in the past at least I' I've see [3:50] them on the lineup in a upcoming fight. [3:52] I'm like, "Oh god." And then I see who [3:54] he's fighting. I'm like, "Oh god." [3:55] >> Yeah. like I don't want to see this guy [3:57] take any more punishment. I don't, you [3:58] know, enough is enough. And those styles [4:01] of just face first just attacking. Boy, [4:04] the audience loves you. And that's a [4:06] trap, [4:07] >> right? [4:07] >> That is a real trap. [4:09] >> Yeah. I mean, 100%. And I think that's [4:13] it's almost a little frustrating that [4:15] the like general public gives that kind [4:17] of energy to that kind of a match. Sure, [4:20] I get it. It's exciting. You want to see [4:21] blood spill. like people just really [4:24] enjoy the chaos of all that and all the [4:25] movement and the energy that goes into [4:27] it. But yeah, you're you're foregoing [4:30] that whole technical aspect like the [4:32] perfection of controlling the dance from [4:35] the beginning to the end and everything [4:37] in between, you know, it's and it's [4:39] almost just like a like an educated [4:41] street brawl. You're getting in there [4:42] and just swinging and going crazy. And [4:44] to me, that's not what martial arts is. [4:46] I mean, it's it literally is the the [4:49] chase of perfection to it of, you know, [4:51] like the the hit and don't get hit. That [4:54] is the art of of boxing, but the art of [4:57] striking and martial arts. You know, you [4:59] want to be Yeah. near near perfect in [5:03] the way you engage in this is land the [5:05] damage and be able to cut those angles, [5:08] move your head, pull out the distance, [5:11] and not take any of that in return. And [5:13] uh yeah, a lot of guys get get cheered [5:16] on initially and so it's unfortunate [5:17] that um maybe it's not unfortunate, but [5:20] you just you just see it a lot that [5:22] yeah, those guys get hyped up off the [5:24] beginning and then all the other things [5:25] happen like you said. [5:26] >> Well, I mean look, they are exciting. I [5:28] love when guys fight like that cuz it's [5:30] just crazy to watch, but I have to set [5:33] aside the rational part of my brain that [5:35] says this is not smart. It's not a good [5:36] thing for them, right? [5:38] >> And this is there's no future in this. [5:40] Eventually, it's going to catch up to [5:41] you. [5:41] >> Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, if I watch [5:43] these guys, you know, get after it, like [5:44] Roman Puga versus uh his opponent on the [5:47] Dana White Contender Series this last [5:49] Tuesday, I believe it was. [5:50] >> Oh, that was crazy, [5:50] >> dude. I mean, I've trained with Roman a [5:52] little bit here and there. He's from the [5:54] same area as me. And uh yeah, the guys [5:57] the guy's very skillful, but at the end [5:58] of the day, both those guys walked out [5:59] of there just busted up. I mean, they [6:01] went straight to the hospital. and it's [6:03] fantastic to watch. But from a fighter [6:05] perspective, at least from someone who's [6:07] engaging in this on the same level as [6:09] they are, yeah, I uh I don't know, [6:12] that's why I like, you know, a little [6:14] bit more of that precise style with the [6:16] boxing specifically. I guess I've really [6:18] drawn a lot of aspects from it. [6:21] >> Oh, for sure. I mean, there's there's an [6:25] art to like a fighter that fights with [6:28] style and a a fighter that fights with [6:30] finesse. Like I always go to Izzy in his [6:32] prime, Adisana in his prime when when he [6:36] was just styling on dudes. I mean it was [6:39] a beautiful thing to watch. It was it [6:41] was it was like a dance. It was almost [6:44] like he was coordinating them, you know? [6:46] He was moving them into his strikes and [6:49] everything was like faints. They were [6:50] all like very specific to gauge [6:53] reactions and he'd put it all into the [6:55] computer and the next thing you know [6:57] he's tuning you up, [6:58] >> right? Yeah. I mean, uh, he's dancing [7:00] his way out. [7:01] >> Yeah. [7:02] >> Into the octagon and then he's dancing [7:03] in there, you know. [7:04] >> Yeah. [7:05] >> Yeah. It's, um, [7:07] >> and I think the other thing that the [7:09] general public doesn't understand about [7:10] this game is that it's a smart man's [7:11] game. [7:12] >> Yes. [7:12] >> It's not a tough man's game. [7:14] >> Well, that's one of the reasons why I [7:15] wanted to talk to you because I've seen [7:16] a lot of your quotes online. I've seen [7:18] you talk. You're obviously a thoughtful [7:20] person and I think you have to be to [7:22] have that kind of a style because it [7:24] does take a lot of thinking. It takes a [7:26] lot of like what you're doing in there [7:28] by constantly overloading overloading [7:31] your opponent's nervous system with [7:33] movement and and and constant counters [7:36] and being like right out of range but [7:38] then right in range and then right out [7:40] of range there's a lot of intelligence [7:42] involved in that. And for someone like [7:44] me who really loves the art of it, I [7:47] love watching a guy like you fight [7:48] because I really wish young fighters [7:50] would emulate people like you. Young [7:52] fighters would see a guy like that like [7:53] that's what I want to fight like. I [7:55] don't want to be this guy who goes in [7:57] there and the end of my career, my face [7:58] is just a road map of scars and I got [8:01] CTE, but boy, people remember back in [8:04] the day when I knocked that guy out or [8:05] when we had this fight of the night and [8:07] >> Yeah. Yeah. And um it's taken a lot of [8:12] experience, a lot of growth, a lot of [8:13] seeing different things cuz when I was a [8:15] wrestler, it was the Iowa style of [8:18] wrestling that I emulated and that I [8:20] hope to emulate, which is it's just get [8:23] in your face. It's break you down, break [8:25] your spirit, break you physically, just [8:27] completely wipe you out with just [8:29] outstanding pressure, you know. And I [8:31] think I suffered with the finesse, with [8:34] a little bit of the technicality of of [8:35] setting things up and being smooth [8:37] because I was just clubbing on your [8:39] head, snapping people down, going going. [8:42] And I I've refined that. I've I've [8:44] pulled back from that almost almost too [8:47] much, I would say, to where if I'm if [8:50] I'm striking with someone, I don't even [8:51] want to engage in like a battle of [8:52] physicality. These guys try to push and [8:54] move and get up and I'm like, you know, [8:57] I'll sit and I'll dance and I'll roll up [8:59] and I'll I'll shut them down real quick [9:01] and I'm steering them off and I'm [9:02] throwing really quick and they try to [9:04] get physical where they're really trying [9:05] to make it, you know, a high pace and [9:07] and and [9:09] just more physical. I don't want to [9:11] engage with that at all. I want to steer [9:13] from beginning to the end. I want to [9:15] keep my heart rate as low as possible. I [9:17] want to land shots and then I want to be [9:19] back to sitting and and like you said, [9:21] covering a distance, controlling [9:23] everything where I can sit, I can take [9:25] my breath and I can see what's coming [9:27] next and then I can move accordingly. [9:29] And so, you know, after being out for a [9:32] little bit of time, I'm now even [9:34] elevated another um yeah, to to another [9:38] greater extent in my own mind that I'm [9:40] now starting to combine the two things [9:42] to where before I I wouldn't say I shied [9:44] away from it. You know, I'm I'm a tough [9:46] guy. if if we want to get physical and [9:47] if it needs to go to that, I'm there all [9:49] day, you know, don't get me wrong with [9:51] that. But, um, I'm I'm finding that [9:55] middle ground where I was I was too much [9:58] of that Iowa style without the finesse. [10:02] Now, I was trying to be all skillful, [10:04] all finesse, dance around the Muhammad [10:06] Ali shuffle, throw that flicker jab, be [10:08] out of range, you know, and and not want [10:11] to engage in the physicality too much. [10:13] And now I've elevated once again to [10:14] where I'm finding that perfect middle [10:16] ground that you know my I'm letting my [10:18] ego go in the gym to where if we do get [10:20] into that physicality or someone gets me [10:22] with something, if it doesn't look [10:24] perfect, I'm not sitting there thinking, [10:25] "Oh, I need to look perfect and and [10:26] avoid these things." Now I'm just [10:29] sending it and getting after it. So [10:30] yeah, it's it's an ever evolving game [10:33] and uh I'm just getting better all the [10:35] time with everything. So you'll never [10:37] see me go in there and brawl anybody, [10:39] but you'll see less hesitation. you'll [10:42] see uh more precise shots and then all [10:44] the other finesse will always be there. [10:46] >> Well, it is a constant work in progress, [10:48] right? And I think that's one of the [10:49] more interesting things about MMA is [10:51] that you see a fighter when they first [10:53] start fighting in the UFC and then you [10:55] see as fights go on, they get more [10:58] fights, they get more confidence, they [10:59] get more experience, and they also get [11:02] significantly better. You know, it's [11:04] it's kind of rare that you see athletes [11:06] in a sport, generally speaking, when [11:08] they get to a certain professional [11:10] level, they're kind of already at their [11:12] peak and they might get a little better, [11:15] but in MMA in particular, you see [11:17] dramatic improvement in fighters over [11:19] the course of four or five years, [11:21] especially if they have good management [11:23] and good training. [11:24] >> And one of the things that you're [11:25] talking about is like letting your ego [11:27] go in the gym. That that is so [11:28] important. It's so important to [11:30] recognize that training is for learning. [11:32] It's not you're not trying to win every [11:34] training session. You're not trying to [11:35] win fights. You're trying to get better [11:36] at winning actual fights. And sometimes [11:38] getting better at winning actual fights [11:40] is addressing whatever weird weaknesses [11:43] or weird places where you're not as [11:45] comfortable and getting comfortable [11:47] there. And the best way to do that is to [11:49] just force yourself into those [11:50] situations. [11:51] >> Yeah, 100%. [11:51] >> It's hard to do though because guys want [11:53] to be dominant. They want to, you know, [11:55] you don't want to lose a training [11:56] session. You don't want to give, you [11:58] know, this guy that you're sparring with [11:59] the impression that he can kick your [12:01] ass, [12:01] >> right? So, you want to get it back on [12:03] them, but sometimes it's smart to not. [12:05] >> Yeah, 100%. I mean, I'm I'm over there [12:08] uh the Rola Brothers are training over [12:10] there at CSW with Eric Pollston right [12:11] now, and Yeah, it's like [12:14] >> those guys are phenomenal. [12:16] >> Yeah, they're the best in the world at [12:18] what they do. [12:19] >> They're so fun to watch. Those guys [12:20] could put jiu-jitsu on the map. [12:22] >> Oh, yeah. Cuz the Routollo brothers, [12:24] like when they do jiu-jitsu, it is like [12:26] this chaotic, exciting, like very [12:31] kinetic, very technical [12:34] path to your neck, [12:35] >> right? [12:35] >> You know, that's what it is. It's just [12:37] this constant path to your neck, [12:38] >> dude. And they got these monkey arms [12:41] that it can just wrap around your neck [12:42] and get that dar choke from anywhere, [12:44] man. It's ridiculous. [12:45] >> Long arms are awesome. [12:46] >> Long arms are insane. [12:47] >> Such an advantage. Like Hodra Gracie had [12:49] that. A lot of guys have that. A lot of [12:50] like the best Dar guys. Hamzad has that, [12:53] >> right? [12:53] >> Those long armed guys. [ __ ] man. [12:55] >> Yeah. And then like you said, like their [12:57] their ability to [12:59] >> they they almost like enforce the chaos [13:02] because that's where they they thrive [13:03] at, you know, all that scramble [13:04] situation. [13:06] >> They're they're running doing crazy [13:07] jumps, like crazy sweep setups. Uh was [13:11] it Kate or Tai? I think I say it was Tai [13:14] when he ran and he bounced off the cage [13:15] or the ropes and he runs back in and [13:17] double legs like the dude. Like it's [13:19] like a WWE match, you know? They're like [13:21] thriving off of that chaotic energy. [13:23] Scrambles. Yeah, they they they're so [13:25] good in scrambles, you know, and it's [13:27] really interesting watching it. Is it [13:30] Tai that's doing one FC that is doing [13:32] MMA fights now? [13:33] >> They're both fighting. [13:34] >> They're both fighting now. [13:35] >> And that's it's going to be exciting to [13:38] have those guys enter into the UFC [13:40] someday. Hopefully they will. Yeah, [13:41] >> cuz uh [13:41] >> Oh, for sure. That they're they're just [13:44] freak athletes, you know? It's something [13:45] that they've been around since they were [13:48] super super young. And uh yeah, I mean [13:53] even even their striking, you know, it's [13:55] not super technical quite yet. They're [13:57] very brand new in it, but they're just [13:59] they got long reach. They're very [14:01] methodical. They're athletic. They [14:02] understand distances from the jiu-jitsu [14:05] world of setting up takedowns and, you [14:06] know, closing closing that distance. So, [14:09] um, but yeah, what I was saying is like [14:11] going with that kind of a guy, it's like [14:13] the last thing I want to do is engage in [14:15] like a grappling position with them in [14:18] the jiu-jitsu or in the MMA. And uh, but [14:22] it's like, yeah, the more I do that, I'm [14:24] only going to get better at doing that [14:26] kind of stuff, you know, [14:27] >> kill the ego, engage full headon into [14:30] what you're bad at. That's the only way [14:32] to get good at anything. [14:33] >> Another great thing about those guys is [14:34] they're totally natural. And in the [14:37] jiu-jitsu world, that's rare, [14:38] >> right? [14:39] >> That's really rare. Jiu-jitsu is a dirty [14:41] sport, man. [14:42] >> Yeah. [14:42] >> Or, you know, I mean, is it dirty if [14:44] everyone's doing it? No. Let me say it [14:46] this way. It's an enhanced sport, [14:48] >> right? [14:49] >> For the most part, the elite guys are on [14:51] some Brazilian supplements. [14:53] >> Yeah. It's It's legal, but they're all [14:56] doing it. Yeah. They're all juiced up. [14:57] So, [14:58] >> I mean, it's kind of legal. Like Abu [15:00] Dhabi doesn't test. A lot of places [15:01] don't test, right? So it's like and you [15:04] see these guys and there's no way some [15:06] of them and you know kudos to guys like [15:08] Gordon like Gordon Ryan who talks very [15:10] openly about it. He's like everybody's [15:12] on performance-enhancing drugs. Why [15:14] would I be on performance-enhancing [15:15] drugs? My goal is to be the absolute [15:17] best that I could be period. [15:19] >> Right? You know, and the idea that the [15:21] only reason why he's so good is because [15:23] of steroids is also equally ridiculous [15:25] because when he was younger and when he [15:27] was much smaller, he was winning [15:29] tournaments left and right and beating [15:31] world champions, [15:32] >> right? [15:32] >> And he was totally natural. [15:34] >> Yeah. I mean, there's there's no way you [15:36] can say someone like Gordon Ryan isn't [15:38] the highest prowess of skill set for [15:41] jiu-jitsu, you know, like his technical [15:43] technicality and his abilities there are [15:45] unquestionable. Yeah. Yeah. What I mean, [15:47] what are you going to do if everybody [15:48] else is is on that level? You're now at [15:52] a deficit if you're not taking it. So, [15:54] um [15:54] >> there's a few guys that don't. Um [15:56] >> and and maybe I don't know. Obviously, [16:00] there's maybe some strength skill or [16:02] strength deficit there, but [16:04] that's that's why again going back to my [16:07] style and and what I like to do, like [16:09] the technicality and having that [16:11] ability, there's there's there's just so [16:14] many aspects to everything. But if [16:16] you're that much more technical than [16:18] someone, then that can negate size to [16:20] some extent. That can negate [16:22] >> um strength to some extent. Like there's [16:24] there's there's a lot of equalizers [16:26] there. Now, [16:27] >> you know, on the on the opposite end, [16:29] someone who's got that one hit or [16:30] quitter, they could be less technical, [16:32] but they're always dangerous. If they [16:34] hit you one time and you go to sleep, [16:35] then all sins are forgiven. They could [16:37] have got beat up for two rounds straight [16:40] and they knock you out. That's all the [16:41] the crowd remembers. So, uh, there's a [16:44] there's a lot that goes into it. But if [16:46] you're that much more, you know, [16:49] skilled in your technicality, that's [16:52] that's you're going to to me that's the [16:54] best you can do. That's that's what [16:56] you're chasing. [16:57] >> For sure. The really dangerous guys are [16:59] the guys who have that one hit or [17:00] quitter power and then they get real [17:02] technical. [17:02] >> Yeah. [17:03] >> Those are the scary guys. [17:04] >> Oh, for sure. I mean, [17:05] >> yeah, [17:05] >> that's then now you have it all. You [17:07] know, that's that [17:10] >> often not the case though. That's what's [17:11] interesting is power can be a curse as [17:14] can talent. Talent can be a a curse too [17:16] because you don't work as hard because [17:18] you [ __ ] everybody up in the gym and so [17:20] you don't show up for practice [17:21] sometimes. You still [ __ ] these guys up. [17:23] They're just not on your level [17:24] physically or for whatever reason. [17:26] >> Yeah. [17:26] >> And then there's guys that have that [17:28] power that always just rely on that [17:30] power and never really develop the [17:32] fundamentals. And so like Deontay Wilder [17:35] is a great example of that. Deontay [17:37] Wilder, who I think is the greatest one [17:38] punch knockout artist in the history of [17:40] the heavyweight division. That [ __ ] [17:42] guy. [17:43] >> Whoa. And not a big guy. [17:45] >> Yeah. [17:45] >> But his power is nuts. And Teddy Atlas [17:47] has the greatest uh definition of it, [17:50] description of it. He said it's the [17:52] great eraser. Any mistakes he makes, one [17:56] shot erases them all. [17:58] >> Yeah, [17:58] >> it's so true. [17:59] >> Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's uh I agree. I mean, [18:04] >> but could you imagine if Deontay could [18:07] move like Tyson Fury, [18:08] >> right? [18:08] >> If Deontay could box like Tyson Fury [18:11] with also with that crazy insane power. [18:13] >> Yeah, it's it's game over for anybody. [18:14] >> It's game over for everybody in front of [18:16] that guy. Not a single person, you know. [18:18] >> This episode is brought to you by Blue [18:20] Chew. Man, let's talk about Blue Chew. [18:22] They're already the number one brand for [18:24] better sex, but what they're doing with [18:26] Blue Chew Gold is completely next level. [18:29] Gold is a 4in-one formula designed to [18:32] make your bedroom noisy again. 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Yeah, if he could move [19:27] like us, I mean, it's a tall [ __ ] [19:28] order because no one can move like Usyk [19:30] other than Usyk, but imagine if he could [19:32] move like Usyk, [19:33] >> right? [19:34] >> You know, I mean, N has that crazy stop. [19:36] Bang. One shot, you're in another [19:39] [ __ ] dimension. [19:40] >> Yeah. And that's, you know, there's and [19:42] then [19:44] um that's that's obviously like at a [19:46] personal level like it some people are [19:48] blessed with that talent like you said [19:50] or a skill set or athleticism. [19:52] >> Well, the power thing is just it seems [19:54] like it's a gift. [19:55] >> Yeah. No, it is. I mean I mean I think [19:57] it was for us I was talking about Connor [19:59] and he was talking about how the the [20:01] muscles connect to the muscle head [20:03] differently. It's like a long or short [20:04] once and then you either have like that [20:06] real explosive power but then your your [20:07] cardio suffers. Whatever it is, he's [20:10] going into it. It's a gift. I mean, can [20:12] you develop it to some extent? Yeah, of [20:14] course. Now, [20:18] the other thing with with punching, with [20:19] with striking is it's not always like [20:21] power that knocks people out. It's the [20:23] shot that you don't see coming that [20:24] knocks you out. [20:25] >> Sure. [20:25] >> You know, and so [20:27] >> it you know, then you can kind of [20:29] equalize on on that playing field, I [20:31] suppose, to some extent. If you're [20:34] getting people guessing, you're getting [20:35] people fainting, you're hitting them [20:36] with shots that they're not seeing, then [20:38] you're going to get similar, you know, [20:40] knockout finishes like that. [20:43] >> There's a lot of guys that knock a lot [20:44] of people out that don't have one punch [20:46] power for sure. Max Holloway is a great [20:47] example of that. Like Max has never, [20:49] even though he has knocked guys out with [20:50] one shot, it's generally like after a [20:52] bunch of damage, [20:53] >> right? [20:54] >> But I mean, Max talked about it pretty [20:56] openly about guys like Connor, Jose [20:57] Aldo, and he's like they just get tired [21:00] quicker because of the speed and power. [21:01] They're so explosive and it's so much [21:03] energy to try to close the distance that [21:06] quick and land those big nuclear bomb [21:08] shots, but you only have a few of those [21:10] in a whole fight. [21:12] >> Yeah, I I feel like uh Max's [21:15] um perspective on those two guys may be [21:18] construed just because of I mean he [21:21] fought Connor the first time I guess [21:22] when Connor was in his prime, you know, [21:25] and he was coming up. [21:26] >> It was almost before his prime. [21:27] >> It was it was on that rise. [21:28] >> They were both kids. I think Max was 20 [21:30] at the time. Yeah, he was I think he was [21:32] like the youngest UFC USC fighter at [21:34] that time or something close to. [21:35] >> He was a different human back then [21:37] >> for sure. But I just think so like cuz [21:39] Conor's cardio is something that I have [21:42] noticed. [21:43] It wasn't it wasn't super poor like [21:46] initially when he was fighting at 145. I [21:48] mean to me he never like Chad Mendes [21:50] they had a lot of grappling exchanges. [21:52] Chad took him down. Chad hit him with [21:53] shots. you know, Connor just stayed [21:56] nice, calm, cool, and collected and uh [21:58] he he got back to the striking where he [22:01] could do that, but to me, he never was [22:03] like gassed out. But then you watch the [22:05] second Diaz fight and he's running [22:07] around the cage for five rounds. Now [22:09] he's gone up in a weight class. So then [22:11] it goes back to, you know, what's his [22:13] what's his training regimen look like? [22:15] He's he's not cutting as much weight, so [22:16] he doesn't have to be as much as [22:18] disciplined. His diet changes. [22:20] >> There's a lot of aspects. So, like I [22:23] don't know. Con that the Connor one was [22:25] was weird to me just because I saw I saw [22:27] a change in it when he was at 145. He he [22:30] didn't have poor cardio. As soon as he [22:32] left that weight class, his cardio [22:34] waned. And then Jose Aldo, I mean, that [22:37] guy was undefeated for what, 10 years, a [22:40] champion for 10 years, and you never saw [22:42] him get tired. And I never saw him get [22:45] tired. Yeah, Max fought him at a certain [22:47] point when he's a little bit older, this [22:48] and that. So, I don't know. Maybe that's [22:50] just Max's perspective on that. I'm not [22:52] saying Max is incorrect in what he's [22:53] saying, but um [22:56] I don't know. There's there's to me [22:59] there's just I haven't um pinpointed [23:03] exactly what's the right and wrong way [23:05] to do everything just because there's so [23:06] many variables especially in MMA. I [23:07] mean, we were kind of discussing a [23:09] little bit earlier is it's not just [23:11] solely that you have like good cardio [23:13] that allows you to [23:16] continue to perform in that fight. [23:18] There's another aspect of how calm, [23:20] cool, and collected you can be because, [23:22] you know, like we were talking hitting [23:23] the mids and something, if you're real [23:25] tense and you're just trying to kill [23:26] them, yeah, you're going to burn [23:27] yourself out. But if you're fast and [23:29] snappy, you're producing just as much, [23:31] if not more power, and now you're being [23:34] more efficient with it, you know? And [23:35] so, um, I don't know. The cardio one is [23:39] is a is a funky one in combat sports to [23:42] me. [23:43] >> It really is. But I think if you look at [23:45] Jose Aldo, Jose Aldo when he was on top, [23:49] when he was the king, [23:50] >> he was wrecking everybody and he was the [23:53] hammer most of the time and he was so [23:56] athletic and so fast and had some of the [23:58] best leg kicks we had ever seen. Like [24:00] the Uriah Faber fight, how [ __ ] tough [24:02] is Uriah Faber? Yeah, [24:03] >> cuz like that guy, many, many, many [24:06] humans would have been stopped a long [24:07] time ago just from those leg kicks. And [24:09] Uriah just kept trying to the very last [24:13] second of the even though he was way [24:14] behind the scorecards, never folded up [24:16] his tent, he was still trying. But Aldo [24:19] wasn't the nail. You know what I'm [24:21] saying? Like there was there was very [24:22] few moments in a fight where someone had [24:24] really started overwhelming him. And one [24:27] of the things that Max has always been [24:28] so good at is knowing when to hit the [24:31] gas and knowing when to just slowly ramp [24:34] up the pressure. And you see guys start [24:36] to fade. And Max is a cardio [ __ ] [24:38] machine. I mean, super disciplined guy, [24:41] right? [24:42] >> And great camp. Those guys in Hawaii [24:44] really prepare him well. He is always [24:47] like 100. It's like the fight with Gachi [24:50] fighting in the fifth round of a [ __ ] [24:52] crazy chaotic war just at the same exact [24:55] pace he was fighting in the first round, [24:56] >> right? [24:57] >> So, it's the experience of knowing what [24:59] your body can do, when you can hit the [25:00] gas, when you need to back off, when to [25:02] move, when not to, and when you feel [25:04] your opponent start to fade a little [25:06] bit. You see the mouth being open a [25:08] little bit more. You see the movement [25:09] looks a little sloppier, [25:11] >> right? Oh, 100%. That's Yeah. Knowing [25:13] when to rest is is a big aspect of that [25:15] as well because you go and you that's [25:17] why a lot of the training you do is is [25:19] that short burst. You know, you hit like [25:21] your sprints. Um you know, you might [25:23] maybe hit the straightaway on on the [25:24] track and then you jog and maintain cuz [25:26] in a fight you're never completely [25:28] resting. You're always moving a little [25:29] bit. Um so yeah, I mean that's that's a [25:33] huge thing. the experience. I think his [25:35] his style and and just what he's [25:37] created, like you said, in his camp is [25:39] is a high output, high volume [25:41] individual. So, you know, his body's [25:43] probably um [25:46] become used to that and that's that's [25:49] how he performs normally. [25:51] >> Yeah, I was shocked that Connor wanted [25:52] to fight him in his first fight back [25:55] after years off. I mean, five years is a [25:58] long time to not fight. And then to come [26:00] back and fight a guy like Max who's been [26:02] constantly fighting the best guys in the [26:05] world and knowing that Max is a guy who [26:08] never fades and he's in very diff gotten [26:12] him out of there is Ilia [26:13] >> and you know Ilia caught Max when Max [26:16] went down from 55 down to 45 which I [26:18] think was a a mistake. He was so big. He [26:21] got so big to get up to 55 to fight [26:23] Justin and he did it over a long period [26:26] of time. Put a lot of mass on and then [26:28] you essentially you're starving yourself [26:30] to get down to 45 again. Your body's [26:31] going to be weak no matter what you do. [26:33] It's not like he was when he was [26:35] fighting at 45. He maintained a lower [26:37] weight class, knew exactly when to cut [26:39] and would make it no problem each time. [26:42] That last cut to 45 was a nightmare. It [26:44] was a horror show. And so when he got in [26:47] there with Ilia and then you're fighting [26:49] El Matador, that [ __ ] you want [26:52] to talk about technique, right? [26:53] >> Technique and his strike, the smoothness [26:56] and efficiency and the one punch. Go [26:59] night power. [27:00] >> I mean, that guy has it above. Who the [27:02] [ __ ] did that to Charles Olivera the way [27:03] that guy did? Yeah. [27:04] >> I mean, that's nuts. He's got And up at [27:06] 55 when Oliver is a big 55, too. [27:09] >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, him moving up to 55. [27:12] Those are some those are some big dogs [27:14] right there. big. Especially when you [27:16] look at him and Justin. When him and [27:17] Justin were like facing off each other, [27:18] I'm like, that's a way bigger dude. [27:21] >> Like Justin's bigger than me and Ilia is [27:23] smaller than me. When I stand next to [27:24] two of them, like this is crazy that [27:26] Ilia has the kind of power that he's [27:28] just wrecking guys even that are way [27:30] bigger than him, [27:31] >> right? Yeah. I mean, his his skill set [27:34] is is amazing combined with the power. [27:37] That's that's someone you talk about has [27:38] a skill set and the punching power, you [27:40] know, and encompasses both those things. [27:42] It's Yeah, he's he's got it all. I mean, [27:45] um and and the thing with him, too, is [27:48] he's just so he's so calm, cool, and [27:50] collected. I think that's also [27:53] something. I mean, I I do a lot of like [27:55] comparison from [27:57] from Muay Thai boxing to the MMA world [28:00] because, you know, I'm I'm in MMA, so I [28:03] understand that there's so many [28:03] different aspects to it where like [28:05] someone could take you down and that's [28:06] going to affect your your striking skill [28:09] set. You know, if you got someone who's [28:11] real dumb wrestler and you're and you're [28:13] way better striker, if you're sitting [28:14] there and worried about them taking you [28:16] down and smothering you, your striking [28:18] goes out the the window a little bit [28:19] because now you have a whole different [28:21] set of weapons that you're worrying [28:22] about. Um [28:24] >> and you can get caught easier. [28:25] >> Yeah. Especially if you're like just [28:27] loading up on them. Yeah. You're going [28:28] to get ducked under and double egged and [28:30] and then taken down. And that's that's [28:33] the whole thing. But um [28:37] I forgot where we even started this [28:39] train of thought. But uh yeah, I mean I [28:42] think it's his his collectness too, but [28:45] I was I was saying there's comparisons [28:46] to all these and that's what like boxing [28:48] you see these guys. They might have a [28:49] couple more rounds, but they come out [28:51] and like the first round, maybe uh the [28:53] second round is is a feeling out round. [28:55] you know, it's it's a slow [28:58] buildup where they're they're collecting [29:00] data, they're setting traps, they're [29:02] they're doing a lot of that. And you see [29:04] that in MMA, just not at the same level. [29:06] Obviously, there's a there's a greater [29:08] skill set. There's more weapons to worry [29:09] about. It is different. Um, but I don't [29:13] know. I obviously I'm reaching for peak [29:16] perfection with everything. So, if we're [29:18] coming and we're looking at distance [29:19] control, I think the boxers do it [29:21] better. you know, if we're looking at [29:22] setting up faints and and working off a [29:25] jab, especially, I think that's I think [29:27] that's the most frustrating thing when I [29:29] watch MMA or UFC fights and watch the [29:33] majority of the guys never never ever [29:35] use a jab and it's always just this big [29:37] overhand right. I'm like, [29:39] >> like what are you doing? Like you have [29:40] two hands like you have the jab, set it [29:42] up. Now, I'm not saying that's [29:43] everybody, but I see I see many people [29:46] doing that. But that going back to [29:48] Taporia, that's one thing that he does [29:50] so well is he's a shorter guy. He sits [29:52] back on that back foot. He's throwing [29:54] that jab. He's he's understanding your [29:56] distance control so he can get in and [29:58] then that's where he's got that power [29:59] and he lets that go. [30:00] >> It's going to be interesting to see how [30:01] he rebounds because that was a uh a lot [30:04] of damage. He two fractured orbitals, [30:08] you know, they had to stop the fight in [30:09] between rounds. [30:10] >> Yeah. [30:11] >> And uh he took big punches from a guy [30:13] who's got [ __ ] rocks in his hands. [30:15] >> Yeah. I mean, Justin can crack. [30:17] >> He Well, they call him what, the most [30:19] violent most violent in the in the game, [30:21] and I think that stands true. Uh, yeah, [30:24] that's that's a hard one to bounce back [30:25] from. It's going to take extra time of [30:28] him really letting all his injuries heal [30:30] and and be fully recovered before he [30:32] even thinks about sparring again, you [30:34] know, ever getting touched in the face [30:35] again. [30:36] >> Yeah, I don't know where he's at now, [30:38] you know. Um, but I know that he's still [30:40] recovering and it'll be a while. I mean, [30:42] the fight was in June. We're doing this [30:43] right now. It's August 30th. Was it 30th [30:46] or 31st? [30:46] >> 31st. Yeah. [30:47] >> 31st. [30:48] >> So, you know, he's had a couple of [30:50] months, but you know, that he probably [30:51] needs like six months before he's even [30:54] sparring again. [30:54] >> Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, it's [30:57] going to take some time. It's going to [30:58] take some time. I mean, the thing that I [31:00] really hate to see is when you guys you [31:01] have undefeated individuals like that [31:04] who have gone undefeated their whole [31:05] career, feel invincible, and then it [31:08] sometimes that one takes them off their [31:10] pedestal, you know, like Jos Aldo's a [31:12] great example of that of I mean, and he [31:14] came back and he fought tough, but he [31:16] just never was the same, right? [31:17] >> He was never that untouchable. Um, [31:20] you know, there's probably many people [31:22] that I can touch back on, but yeah, hope [31:25] I think hopefully that's that's the main [31:28] thing that he's going to need is that [31:30] that mental um indestructibility and to [31:34] come back and just be like, I'm the same [31:36] person. That one fight doesn't change [31:37] anything and I'm ready to go do it [31:39] again. [31:39] >> Well, he's a very mentally strong guy [31:41] and I think he will bounce back in that [31:44] regard. It's just there's also the just [31:47] the reality of how much damage and only [31:49] he knows how much damage he actually [31:51] took in that fight. Yeah. [31:52] >> You know how that affects him as well [31:54] because you know as well as anybody that [31:56] there's only a few of those kind of [31:58] fights that you could have in your [31:59] career and you got to be very careful [32:02] how you recover from those. And uh a lot [32:05] of fighters, a lot of great fighters [32:06] have made a mistake of coming back too [32:08] soon. Uh Vulcganowski is one that I [32:10] point to all the time who's arguably the [32:12] greatest featherweight of all time. He [32:14] is one of the most masterful fighters in [32:16] the game. He took a short short notice [32:19] fight with uh Islam uh in the rematch [32:22] and got head kicked and then I think it [32:24] was only four months later that he was [32:26] fighting Ilia. And that is crazy. That's [32:29] a crazy thing to do. He took a full head [32:31] kick, shinned the dome, gets KO'ed, and [32:34] then four months later he's fighting the [32:36] [ __ ] scariest challenger that he's [32:37] ever had to face, [32:38] >> right? Yeah. 100%. You you can't rush [32:41] back into those things. I mean, [32:42] especially when you're that cemented, [32:44] you don't really need to rush back into [32:46] it, right? You know, you you have your [32:47] legacy behind you. [32:48] >> Well, you shouldn't have even taken that [32:50] fight with Islam. There's no way you [32:52] should take a world championship fight [32:53] when you're hanging out with your [32:55] buddies, drinking beer, you know, eating [32:57] fish and chips or whatever the [ __ ] he [32:58] was doing. And then [33:00] >> hunting with Vul over there, you know, [33:01] >> he's having a good time, but he wasn't [33:02] in training. He said there's no way he [33:04] was in train. He didn't look like he was [33:05] in training physically. Like his body [33:07] didn't look the same. did not like he [33:08] looked out of shape, but he definitely [33:10] looked smoother and less ripped than he [33:13] usually does. [33:13] >> There's a there's a difference to being [33:15] in a two or three month fight camp of [33:18] day in day out, two, three practices a [33:19] day, the diet's set, the the mentality [33:22] is set versus I'm just training. [33:25] >> On the outside of that, [33:26] >> when you came in on two days notice to [33:28] fight Wellmaker, were you in training at [33:30] all? Like what was your scenario? [33:33] >> Uh I was doing uh food eating [33:35] championship training. was killing uh [33:37] double doubles and 3x3s. No, but with [33:40] that one, I was I was fortunate because [33:43] uh I I stayed strict pretty much year [33:46] round. So, I had fought fought in [33:47] January um at the beginning of the year [33:50] and then I was supposed to fight [33:52] multiple times and I just had I had two [33:53] or three opponents pull out and then I [33:56] fought November 7th for the title fight [33:58] for the A1 combat which was Lydia of the [34:00] weekend before. though. Fortunately, I [34:02] did I was even though people were [34:05] falling out, I I kept to the course. I [34:07] stayed strong. I stayed in a fight camp [34:09] mentality. That November 7th fight ended [34:13] up happening. So, I had a strong two [34:15] months. Now, still, even that one week [34:19] difference of going being in a fight [34:21] camp, and then I have a couple drinks at [34:23] the casino, I'm eating food. And I [34:26] thought to myself because January was it [34:29] was a similar thing where they said [34:32] February Australia [34:34] get ready, get your passport, let's look [34:36] into this, blah blah blah. You know, I [34:38] had a had a nice knockout finish there. [34:41] Um, but then yeah, just that one week of [34:44] being off of of eating whatever I wanted [34:46] to and just kind of doing whatever. I I [34:49] ran once. I showed up to sparring and [34:51] light touch sparred. Um, I had gone to [34:54] one other practice cuz in my mind I was [34:55] like, I need to be somewhat ready for [34:58] this. Like I can have I can have a week. [35:00] I've been in fight camp all year long. I [35:01] can have one week and then that's the [35:03] week that they call and say 48 hour [35:05] notice MSG 10 and0 undefeated Malcolm [35:08] Welmaker. You want it? And uh and then [35:11] of course I'm going to can't say no to [35:12] that one. [35:13] >> So you fought the weekend before the [35:14] Wmaker fight. [35:15] >> I fought November 7th. Yeah. [35:17] >> Wow. That's actually good. [35:20] >> If you didn't get hurt. [35:21] >> Yeah. Well, it was a minute and 30 [35:24] seconds. I knocked him out in the first [35:26] round. So, it was it was to me it's just [35:28] the stars aligned. I mean, [35:30] >> don't you think it's also good that you [35:32] just had the experience like seven days [35:34] prior to the whole thing getting in the [35:36] cage, cage shuts, you just fought. So, [35:39] it's much more comfortable for you than [35:41] if you had like Connor taking five years [35:43] off. as elite as Connor is, double [35:46] champ, one of the greatest of all time [35:48] for that. Even a guy like that, you take [35:50] five years off and you could see like [35:52] what it did to him. It's like it [ __ ] [35:54] with his head. [35:55] >> Oh, yeah. You could you could see it. It [35:57] there wasn't the same Connor energy [35:58] going into it. Uh, of course, I I always [36:03] want a quick turnaround like after I [36:05] fight just for that very reason. I I I [36:08] cut the weight. I know what that's like. [36:10] I [36:12] warmed up in the back with all the [36:14] anticipation, you know, and that energy [36:16] flowing through my body. I walked out in [36:18] front of the crowd. They announced my [36:20] name. I got in there. I I actually [36:22] fought someone. So, yeah, if you have [36:24] that going for you, then that's Yeah, [36:27] it's way way better. For sure. [36:28] >> Yeah. The more active you can be, the [36:30] more comfortable you can be with the [36:31] experience as long as you're not getting [36:33] hurt. Yeah. Here's a stat that I was uh [36:35] reading about Izzy. Um and people forget [36:38] about this. when he was the champion, he [36:40] defended his title a lot, man. He was [36:43] the guy that they can go, "Hey, we need [36:45] someone to headline this card." And Izzy [36:47] would step in. And I think he fought [36:49] three time he defended the world title [36:51] three times in one year, which is crazy [36:54] cuz I don't think the middleweight title [36:56] since he's gone has even been contweight [37:02] fights have there even been for the [37:04] title since he's been gone. There's only [37:06] been a few fights. I think there's only [37:09] been [37:09] >> I mean there's Sean and and [37:11] >> and Drius Shawn and Drius two uh Drius [37:15] and Hamzot [37:17] >> and then Sean and Hamza [37:18] >> and Sean and Hamza I mean it might [37:20] literally be like maybe five fights [37:23] since he's lost the title and [ __ ] he [37:26] defended it more than anybody [37:28] >> right yeah which is crazy he defended it [37:29] three times in one year [37:31] >> and then you have [37:32] >> this you know huge span of time in [37:34] between defenses [37:35] >> but then there's a question of like What [37:37] is the when does it become a benefit and [37:40] when does it become a detriment? Like [37:42] when when you're fighting too many times [37:44] a year like the Morab Davish Willie [37:46] fight um one of the things that a lot of [37:49] people talked about after Per Yan beat [37:52] him in the rematch was what about the [37:54] strength of schedule? I mean Morab was [37:56] fighting constantly. He was fighting. He [37:59] fought so often and for so many years [38:01] that you got to think that at a certain [38:03] point in time maybe he's doing himself a [38:06] disservice by being so active. [38:08] >> Yeah. I mean, for sure. Um I don't know. [38:12] I mean, that's [38:14] it's something you got to feel out for [38:15] yourself, you know? It's it's something [38:17] that you have to know in your heart of [38:19] hearts. And [38:20] >> nobody else can tell you that. Your [38:21] coach can't be like, "No, you're [38:22] training really well these days. You're [38:24] super sharp. This and that." like if [38:26] something's off realistically, [38:29] you should be perfect going into your [38:30] fight, especially at a at a world [38:32] championship caliber. Um, it's just I [38:36] mean, I keep making these comparisons, [38:37] but it's another thing that I I go back [38:39] to with the boxing world is these guys [38:41] look at it as a business. Like, look at [38:43] Floyd Mayweather. Like, everything was [38:45] like he he made sure that the the cage [38:47] was his side. He picked the gloves. It [38:49] was certain people at certain times. And [38:51] there's there's some things to be said [38:53] about that, but it's a business mindset. [38:54] It's a very smart approach to it. You [38:56] know, I'm fighting when I'm ready. I'm [38:58] not fighting injured, which is which is [38:59] more of the main thing is like people go [39:01] in there with injuries and, you know, [39:04] get hurt or or lose even. It's like [39:06] that's that could be detrimental on your [39:08] record. I think the MMA guys are a [39:10] little bit more on the the tough side [39:12] instead of the the business side of [39:13] things where they'll they'll fight [39:15] anyone any time, which I mean, that's [39:17] how you got to be, but that's how you [39:19] build your team around you. you have a [39:21] team that tells you, hey, you know, this [39:23] time isn't isn't necessarily the best to [39:25] go into it and this and that and just [39:27] being a little bit smarter about your [39:29] schedule. It's like, yeah, us fighters [39:31] are going to sit there and go, I'll [39:32] fight anyone any given time. Um, doesn't [39:35] matter, but yeah, this is this is a [39:38] business. It's not just um fighting like [39:42] getting in that cage solely. It's it's a [39:44] lot of aspects that go into it. Don't [39:45] you think it's way more difficult to go [39:48] into a fight perfect in MMA than it is [39:50] in boxing, though? In boxing, it seems [39:52] like it's much easier to avoid injuries. [39:54] >> For sure. There's there's there's [39:55] differences. I just I reflect back to [39:58] that. I like the way that they conduct [39:59] themselves. I think it's it's and and [40:01] there's a lot that's to be said to that [40:03] cuz it's it's a longer standing sport. [40:06] >> There's been more time and experience [40:08] into it. [40:09] >> But yeah, 100%. I mean, you know, I I [40:12] was before this April fight, I the first [40:16] round of the day of sparring, I was just [40:19] going light with Callum Bisping for [40:22] literally one second and we moved around [40:24] and he's a heavyweight. We moved around. [40:26] He took me took he tried to take me [40:27] down. I stuffed. He took me down and I [40:29] kind of just sat with it because I [40:30] didn't want to get caught in any, you [40:32] know, knee tweaking positions or [40:33] anything cuz he's just so much heavier [40:34] than I am. And I sat into a butterfly, [40:36] which is typically how I would do that. [40:38] elevate the hips immediately and try to [40:40] make a scramble and my my meniscus just [40:44] popped instantly right then and there. [40:45] First round of the day, barely barely [40:48] had done anything. Barely started and it [40:50] wasn't even like a a crazy position, but [40:53] yeah, now I sustained injury. Now I [40:56] don't go against heavyweights anymore [40:57] because [40:57] >> you should never be doing that as a [40:59] bantamweight. You should not be sparring [41:01] with heavy. [41:02] >> Well, that's why I go the first day I'm [41:03] or not the first day but the first round [41:04] and I'm just trying to warm up. There's [41:06] there's a lot of things to be said. I I [41:07] grow and I and I learn and I get smarter [41:09] every time. [41:10] >> I think you should only spar with guys [41:11] that are reasonably close to your [41:12] weight, period. [41:13] >> 10 10 pounds is probably a maximum above [41:16] you. You know, you shouldn't be going [41:17] with anybody more than that. [41:18] >> Yeah, I get I get smarter with these [41:20] things. I I do dumb things and uh [41:22] >> I figure [41:24] for the for the most of my history, I've [41:27] had to learn the hard way with things. [41:29] So, uh I'm getting better at it. I'm [41:30] getting smarter. So, but like I said, it [41:32] was just a freak thing. It wasn't like [41:33] we were going crazy hard or anything [41:35] like it just was the first round I just [41:38] trying to move and and then some little [41:39] thing happened. [41:41] >> Uh it wasn't a full full tear but it [41:43] happened back in like Februaryish right [41:46] before that that April one. So leading [41:48] up to the Estabon fight it's like I [41:49] didn't grapple till the last maybe maybe [41:53] month of it maybe. [41:54] >> Oh so it was bothering you even before [41:55] that fight. [41:56] >> It was all the way up to it. I mean like [41:57] that's that's when it happened was the [41:58] April fight which was the Eston fight. [42:00] >> Wow. Wow. So yeah, it's it's very [42:04] difficult to avoid everything, you know, [42:06] like there's a lot of different things [42:08] that won't even seem like a detrimental [42:10] position, but yeah, you got grappling, [42:12] which can tweak all sorts of different [42:14] parts of the body. Uh a simple cut from [42:17] from striking can happen very easily. So [42:20] for sure, it's it's much more abundant [42:22] in the MMA world because there are more [42:24] weapons. There's a lot of variations of [42:26] things to watch out for. Um, but that [42:30] being said, I like to carry, like I [42:32] said, this is a smart man's game. I like [42:33] to carry a a level of of business-wise [42:36] and and smartwise to this. And that's so [42:39] though the [42:42] um exact functions may differ. It's it's [42:45] the mindset that I like to carry from [42:47] it. [42:47] >> Right. It's a Well, it what you said is [42:49] perfect that it's a long business. [42:51] Boxing's been around for a long time and [42:53] the really elite trainers, the re the [42:55] really elite coaches, they know how to [42:57] prepare their fighters and they know [42:59] what fights to take and when to take [43:01] them, right? [43:01] >> And unfortunately with the UFC, like [43:04] sometimes [43:06] you get a call like the Malcolm [43:08] Wellmaker fight, you know, and you're [43:10] like, "Oh [ __ ] it would have been nice [43:12] to get two months to prepare for [43:13] Malcolm, but I have two days, right? [43:17] >> And I just fought. [ __ ] it. Roll the [43:20] dice." And you also were coming out of [43:23] nowhere and I don't think a lot of [43:25] people had time to prepare for you cuz [43:27] as good as you are when you fought [43:29] Wellmaker when you fought uh how do you [43:31] say his name? Estavan. What is his [43:33] >> Raphael Estan? [43:34] >> Rav Estan. He was also undefeated and [43:39] super skillful. He was a really good [43:41] fighter and still is. But um to have [43:44] those two performances in a row, the way [43:47] you looked, you looked like a guy like [43:48] if you were [43:50] 20 years ago, you would have been a [43:52] [ __ ] alien. Like no one had seen [43:54] anybody like you before. That's how much [43:55] this sport has grown just in 20 years. [43:58] If you go back to like Ultimate Fighter [44:00] season 1, there was [ __ ] nobody like [44:02] you. Nobody like you back then, [44:04] >> right? You know, it really wasn't until [44:06] Anderson burst onto the scene shortly [44:08] after that that we really got to see [44:11] that kind of elite level of striking. [44:14] >> Yeah. I mean, [44:16] >> yeah, talk about an alien for that time. [44:18] That was Anderson Silva. That's that's [44:20] one of the top to ever do it. There's [44:21] there's no question. [44:22] >> Oh my god. People forget because maybe [44:24] they see his later fights in his career, [44:27] >> but you go back and watch him when he [44:28] was in his prime. I remember when when [44:30] he fought Chris Leeben, and Chris Leeben [44:32] is a murderous puncher. like one of the [44:35] hardest punchers that's ever fought in [44:36] the UFC. He's he's one of those guys [44:38] that's got that [ __ ] god-given crack, [44:41] >> right? [44:41] >> And he's just such a warrior. I mean, [44:43] wades into the storm, you know, [44:46] >> but that style is tailorade for him. And [44:49] when I was looking at the odds, a friend [44:50] of mine was there. I go, "Bet the house [44:53] on the Brazilian." I go, "Bet the [44:55] house." I go, "Listen to me. This is a [44:58] [ __ ] dude. Just wait." because [45:00] that's when he really came into his own [45:03] uh over in Cage Rage [45:05] >> when he that's when he really became [45:07] Anderson Silva. [45:08] >> That was a yellow cage. Was that Cage? [45:10] Yes. That's when he did that [45:11] >> the the elbow. The crazy elbow. [45:13] >> Yeah. Tony Frricklin. [45:16] >> Yeah. What was the It was like a upkick. [45:19] Like a crescent up kick. Was that Pride [45:20] or was that the cage rage? [45:22] >> He was on the bottom and he whipped his [45:24] leg over the top. It wasn't like a [45:25] straight up kick. He He kind of like [45:27] brought it over. Oh, I don't remember [45:29] that one. [45:29] >> Yeah, I don't I don't recall either. [45:31] >> Who Who was he fighting? [45:32] >> I don't know. I'm not I'm not good at [45:34] names always. [45:34] >> So, in Pride, it was uh who was he [45:37] fighting here, Jamie? [45:38] >> Uh Japanese gentleman. [45:41] >> Y Nokami. Oh, Yushkami. This was Rumble [45:44] on the Rock. This is BJ Penn's [45:46] promotion. Look at that. Oh, [45:48] >> yeah. He's just doing things that like [45:50] >> you nobody had ever thought of at that [45:52] time. [45:53] >> He gets that right leg loose, ties his [45:55] hands up. Bow. That's crazy. And Okami [45:59] was a beast. And they fought again in [46:01] the UFC later and he he KO'ed Okami. [46:04] >> Yeah. Stuff like that. The elbow you're [46:06] talking about just like [46:08] >> just a pioneer for it. You know, it's [46:10] not like he's watching film. He's not [46:11] sitting on YouTube watching [46:13] >> people do these things prior. He's the [46:15] one that's coming up with this. [46:16] >> Yeah. This is the crazy elbow. You know [46:17] what the the funny story about this [46:19] elbow? He was training that and his [46:21] coach told him, "Stop doing that. You're [46:22] not going to do that." And [46:24] >> so he made his wife hold pillows at home [46:26] >> and he was he was practicing it at home. [46:29] He was having her hold a pillow and he [46:30] was just working on the mechanics of [46:31] that elbow. It's like he wanted to prove [46:33] his coach wrong, right? [46:34] >> And he wanted to get the knockout with [46:36] that that technique [46:37] >> and lo and behold, he did it. [46:40] >> Well, he had some great fights over [46:41] there. Um particularly the um uh the Lee [46:45] Murray fight. Did you ever see that [46:46] fight? [46:47] >> Um probably I Murray is right. He's the [46:50] the British dude that [46:52] >> became a bank robber. [46:53] >> He was the bank robber. Correct. Yeah. [46:54] >> Biggest heist in UK history. [46:57] >> Yeah. [46:57] >> Yeah. [46:57] >> And that was a bad dude, too. [46:59] >> Oh, he was a bad mother. [47:00] >> Everybody was scared of that dude. [47:01] >> Well, that guy could crack. He was [47:03] another guy. Had crazy power and just a [47:05] vicious dude. Just an absolutely vicious [47:07] guy who was legitimate criminal. [47:09] >> Yeah, exactly. He had that like that [47:11] whole aura and persona to him. [47:12] >> Yeah. He was a real gangster. [47:14] >> Yeah. That that brings a little bit more [47:15] of like this, you know, I don't want to [47:17] say fear, but like, oh, who's this guy? [47:19] You know, [47:20] >> the [ __ ] guy was an elite fighter and [47:22] he was also a elite criminal, [47:25] >> right? Yeah. He's multi-talented. [47:28] >> I mean, that's something in a movie. [47:30] Like a guy like who's a top tier [47:33] criminal who also competes and wins in [47:36] the UFC, [47:37] >> right? Yeah. [47:38] >> And won by triangle. He beat uh Jorge [47:41] Rivera by triangle. [47:43] >> Yeah. And it's crazy. I know. And you [47:46] have Anderson come in and just demolish [47:48] this dude. Yeah. [47:49] >> Just wrecked him. And he wrecked him [47:50] with technique. And it was a lot of it [47:51] was leg kicks. [47:52] >> Yeah. [47:53] >> He just Anderson's Muay Thai was at such [47:55] a different level. It was so artistic. [47:58] >> Yeah. I think that's the perfect word to [48:00] describe that was artistic cuz just [48:02] beautiful the way he set things up. I [48:04] mean, he made elite guys look [48:07] >> very brand new in the cage. And uh [48:10] >> I I didn't see very many close fights [48:11] with him till later in his career. [48:13] >> Yeah, it's a later in his career thing. [48:15] And I always say that with fighters, you [48:17] really have to look at them when they [48:18] were at their highest RPM, whatever. [48:21] It's you generally it's only a few [48:22] years, [48:23] >> but that few years like judge them by [48:25] that. Judge them by those performances [48:27] when they were just on fire. [48:29] >> And I I tell people you have to always [48:32] go back and watch those Anderson fights [48:34] when he front kick Vtor in the face, [48:36] >> right? [48:37] >> First time anybody had ever won by [48:38] knockout with a front kick to the face [48:40] in the UFC. Now people do it all the [48:42] time, [48:42] >> right? [48:42] >> But I didn't even think that was a good [48:44] option. Like there's a video of and I [48:46] grew up kicking. There's a video of me [48:49] and Eddie Bravo. We're working with [48:50] those Bob one of those Bob dummies and [48:52] he's like, "What do you think about a [48:53] front kick to the face?" I'm like, "It's [48:55] better to the body. I mean, you could [48:57] land it to the face, but you know, I [48:58] don't really see very many guys do it. [49:00] It's much more wrong." [49:02] >> Yeah, [49:03] >> it's perfect. [49:03] >> Just watch the Anderson Silva fight. [49:05] >> And everybody does it now. So many guys [49:07] get knockouts with a front kick to the [49:08] face because you don't see it coming [49:09] when it comes straight up the middle. If [49:11] everything's coming around and all a [49:13] sudden something comes straight up the [49:14] middle and catches the bottom of your [49:15] chin. [49:16] >> For sure. I I like um I I like that side [49:20] kick to the body to the liver, throwing [49:21] that heel in the liver. I think that's [49:24] >> more of a natural motion, but I have [49:26] been working with the front kicks. I [49:27] like them a lot. Uh especially with that [49:29] with the weight on the back leg a little [49:31] bit and especially with these calf [49:32] kicks, people are really trying to bear [49:35] down and throw the calf kick hard. [49:37] That's that's uh was going to be my [49:40] technique in my last one was when that [49:41] when that calf kick comes off the very [49:43] beginning because that's what Fa does is [49:46] comes out he control looks for his [49:48] distance and he bases down he throws [49:50] that calf kick almost every single time [49:52] against every opponent and I was like [49:54] you know especially because I was [49:55] planning on going there one-handed and I [49:58] was like I just going to pull this front [50:00] leg up front front kick to the face and [50:02] it's going to land. It's going to be [50:04] beautiful. But yeah, I started to work [50:05] that like you you put all that weight on [50:07] that back leg. This one comes up fast [50:09] and the one I like better, especially [50:10] with the boxing as I come down here is [50:13] uh kind of getting that lean forward and [50:15] you're stepping back and then when [50:16] people think your face is in range [50:18] forward, you just pull back and throw [50:19] that one straight up the middle [50:21] >> and you're talking off the front leg [50:22] >> off the back leg on this on the second [50:24] one. You're kind of basing out here and [50:25] you're you're stepping back onto the to [50:27] the back leg and when they open up like [50:29] they're going to throw something, [50:31] >> you lean back and throw it up the [50:32] middle. [50:32] >> Yeah. changing the distance there so [50:35] people don't expect it. [50:36] >> For the calf kick, you're just light on [50:38] the front leg and you're throwing it off [50:39] the front leg. Are you sliding forward? [50:41] Are you just picking it up and stabbing? [50:43] >> I just pick it up and stab it cuz they [50:45] got to close a little bit of distance to [50:46] get that calf. [50:47] >> Mhm. [50:47] >> That one's um you know, the kick is a [50:49] longer range, but that one you have to [50:50] come a little bit closer [50:52] >> for me to throw it appropriately. Some [50:54] people smack it with the the foot or [50:55] whatever it is. I don't like that. I [50:57] like that Dutch style almost like a [50:59] soccer kick. just you're you're raising [51:00] it straight up and that shin bone is [51:02] touching that soft calf. And so to do it [51:05] that way, I get a little bit closer [51:07] distance, but then that's where, you [51:08] know, you set it up and all the other [51:09] stuff. You be a little safer doing it [51:12] that way. [51:12] >> Yeah, the calf kick is interesting [51:14] because a lot of guys are kind of just [51:16] going straight up, [51:18] >> right? [51:18] >> You know, like you ever see Yukioza [51:20] fight? [51:21] >> He's one of my favorite guys to watch [51:23] fights. That's That's probably like the [51:24] perfect example of throwing a very um [51:28] deliberate and and technical calf kick [51:31] is how he does it. [51:32] >> He destroys people's legs. Destroys [51:34] them. And he's kicking up. He's kicking [51:36] up all the time. And there's no pivot. [51:38] And it's so fast. [51:39] >> It's so fast. And there's no tell. And [51:41] he's throwing it in every combination. [51:43] So he's hitting you with a jab. He's [51:45] inside low kicking you. The left hook, [51:47] he's outside low kicking you. [51:49] >> Yeah. He's smacking you from all the [51:50] different levels [51:51] >> constantly and taking out your base [51:53] every time. Every time you're close [51:54] enough, he's taking out your base every [51:56] time. Every time from all angles. I love [51:58] watching this guy fight. He does that [51:59] cool thing, too. Like what he just did. [52:01] Check out that. Watch that. They gave [52:03] him trouble for that cuz you're not [52:04] supposed to do that in kickboxing. See, [52:05] he does that. He hooks the guy's leg. [52:07] >> So, he throws like a halfspeed kick. [52:09] Show back it up again so you can see [52:11] that. He throws like a half speed kick, [52:12] holds it, [52:13] >> and then trips him. [52:14] >> My dad was actually just talking about [52:16] that one with me. That's That's very [52:18] clean technique. [52:19] But he is such a wild guy to watch [52:22] because of the damage that he does to [52:25] guy's legs. [52:26] >> So this is what I love about the [52:28] artistic aspect of it and the technical [52:30] aspect. When people figure out, okay, [52:31] what do you do when you're fighting a [52:33] guy like this? Well, Jonathan Hagerty [52:34] figured it out. It's constant switch [52:37] stances, constant knees to the body, [52:40] moving, jabbing, constant movement. You [52:42] never let him get set up for those, you [52:44] know, and he took a lot of leg kicks and [52:46] that, but he landed way more than he [52:47] took. and he won the decision against [52:49] Yozos. It was a big win, but it was also [52:52] like a blueprint. Like if people got to [52:54] see that fight, they see it. See you can [52:55] find that fight. Jonathan Hagerty and [52:57] Yuki Yoza. [52:58] >> He did a really good job of picking that [52:59] front leg up. That's And that's going [53:01] back to MMA is something that it's still [53:02] developing, but I don't see a lot of [53:04] guys defend the calf kick. I see a lot [53:07] of guys willingly eat them. Yes. [53:09] >> And it's like you do that with the [53:10] shining guards on, you could probably [53:12] spar all day and take calf kicks, you [53:14] know, [53:14] >> sort of [53:15] >> if they're landing clean, like really [53:17] clean. Yeah, you're gonna feel it. Yeah. [53:18] But for the most part, you pick the leg [53:20] up, you pull it back a little bit, it [53:21] doesn't land super flush. You could take [53:23] it with shin guards on. You take you [53:25] take one good one with no shinguards on, [53:27] it's a completely different game. It it [53:29] takes, you know, you're that leg away [53:30] from you. [53:31] >> This episode is brought to you by [53:32] Superpower. Your doctor spends eight [53:34] minutes with you and your insurance [53:36] decides what blood work you get. That's [53:39] not healthcare. It's a broken system. [53:41] With Superpower, you take control. It [53:43] starts by testing over [53:46] 150 biomarkers. But what really sets [53:48] Superpower apart from other blood [53:50] testing companies is what comes next. [53:53] They connect your blood work with real [53:55] time wearable data, health history, and [53:58] genetics to uncover patterns others miss [54:01] and deliver personalized guidance you [54:03] can't get anywhere else. This is [54:05] healthcare built for individuals, not [54:08] institutions. Go to superpower.com/rogan [54:12] to save $50 on your membership. Yeah. [54:14] So, look how Jonathan is never [54:16] stationary. Constantly switching [54:18] stances. Look, I mean, literally [54:20] constantly and constant movement. And [54:22] then when you're thinking about the [54:23] legs, the jab, the step forward, knee, [54:26] everything is constant movement. There's [54:28] never a chance for Yoza to set up. And [54:31] nice spinning back kick to the body [54:32] there. [54:33] >> So close, too. [54:33] >> Yeah, I know. He's He's wicked, man. [54:35] This dude's wicked. But Hagerty figured [54:37] him out, man. Look at that outside low [54:39] kick on a hop. I mean, in constant [54:42] stance switches and that switch knee to [54:44] the body. Look, Yoza is looking for [54:45] those, man. If you you could only take [54:48] so many of them from this guy, too. He's [54:49] got [ __ ] stones for shins. [54:51] >> Yeah. Yeah. He's got no nerve endings on [54:54] anything below the knees. [54:56] >> It's really incredible, man. Watching [54:58] this fight is uh a real masterclass in [55:01] striking. And this one thing that I [55:02] always give credit to one for. I think [55:05] one has the absolute best strikers when [55:08] it comes to just pure striking, right? [55:10] And the exciting guys that they have [55:13] over there. Uh [55:14] >> Azadullah Iman Gazalia, have you seen [55:16] that guy fight? [55:17] >> Yeah. [55:17] >> He's my favorite. That I [ __ ] love [55:20] watching that guy fight. Like it's like [55:21] Jesus Christ, he's good. [55:23] >> And one of the guys that he trains with [55:25] just fought in the PFL, Mega Med. Did [55:27] you see that fight? [55:28] >> No. [55:29] >> I forget how to say his name. It's like [55:32] I think it's Abu or a I forget his name [55:34] but uh he put on a masterclass in [55:37] striking and he looked just like I uh [55:39] like uh Azadullah Iman Gazalia like the [55:42] way he was fighting like that style long [55:44] tall striker and these Dagistan guys man [55:48] you got Dagistan's got elite Muay Thai [55:50] too that's crazy. Yeah that's a dude uh [55:53] Amruu Amu Magamemedov. Well, speaking of [55:56] that, [55:56] >> show me a little bit of that cuz this [55:57] cat, he fights just like Acadullah, like [56:01] very similar. And I know they're from [56:03] the same place. [56:04] >> You talk about artistic, that's like [56:05] Zabarov [56:07] is another one. [56:08] >> Yes. Yeah. He and he was kind of the [56:10] first of those guys that you go, "Oh, I [56:12] I think of these guys as wrestlers." But [56:15] look at this guy. He's throwing 360 [56:17] roundhouse kicks and wheel kicks. [56:18] >> Well, he was doing like I don't know, [56:20] not kung fu, but one of those practices [56:23] before he was ever wrestling. [56:26] Yeah, it was like Sancheu or something. [56:28] >> But you watch this cat fight. He fights [56:30] just like Azadullah. He's got that long [56:32] reach, [56:34] slick striking, wicked kicks. He he [56:37] throws a lot of high kicks. [56:40] And that dude Alvarez that he's fighting [56:42] was tough as [ __ ] dude, cuz he he he [56:44] took a lot before he finally wilted. [56:46] >> You could see he's hurting from the leg [56:48] kicks already before that. Oh, [56:49] >> he's getting destroyed. [56:52] >> Vicious. Being a long guy like that is [56:54] just so much more beneficial. That's why [56:56] everybody thinks it's all these big [56:57] muscle heads like like the OG UFC that [57:00] that's that's the fighter build. [57:02] >> The guy on the the guy on top of the [57:04] world with his fist. [57:05] >> It's like it's the tall long like skinny [57:07] guy that can strike. Well, like that's [57:09] the perfect like MMA build. [57:10] >> Yeah, because they can strike you from [57:12] six inches away from where you can [57:14] strike them. That's a crazy advantage. [57:16] Yeah, that's a back to where was with [57:19] Tai on Thursday, whatever it was. And [57:21] he's like I want to say he said 78 inch [57:24] reach. [57:25] >> Wow. [57:25] >> He's like he's like I have a 78 inch [57:28] reach. He's like so I can touch you guys [57:29] from this and that and southpaw and blah [57:31] blah blah. But I'm like well yeah like [57:33] >> that's like a light heavyweight reach. [57:34] >> Yeah. It's like well no dude they both [57:36] of those guys have crazy long reach. [57:38] It's ridiculous. [57:39] >> Real real long arms, real long legs. [57:40] Perfect for triangles. Perfect for for [57:42] any kind of dar guillotines anything. [57:45] rear nakeds. Rear naked with an arm in. [57:47] >> Yeah. And then you fight southpaw like [57:48] this. [57:49] >> It's like you can touch from a million [57:50] miles away. That's what me I'm the [57:52] opposite. My whole style is all the way [57:54] out or all the way in. I I got to get in [57:56] and get to work in there, you know? And [57:58] and there's something to be said about [57:59] that, too, because those two styles [58:01] cancel each other out. If you have a [58:03] long guy, he's not going to fight as [58:05] well on the inside. It's not saying that [58:06] he can't, especially with the Muay Thai, [58:09] the way they clinch is actually very [58:11] efficient. And and with the boxing [58:14] stuff, opening stuff up and being able [58:15] to get your your longer limbs in there [58:17] is is perfectly viable as well. It's [58:20] just you got to play off of your of you [58:23] know, your god-given talents and your [58:25] assets. And so the shorter guy is going [58:28] to negate the long guy by getting [58:29] inside. And if the long guy can maintain [58:31] the distance and keep him there, then [58:33] he's going to win that. [58:34] >> Yeah, there's benefits to all body [58:36] types. It's just knowing what to do with [58:38] that body type. Like look, Mike Tyson is [58:41] arguably the greatest heavyweight of all [58:43] time. He's in the in the conversation [58:45] with Ali and Joe Lewis and [58:49] there's a few guys that you could like [58:51] put into that that category as the [58:53] greatest heavyweight of all time. And I [58:56] think Mike Tyson certainly in his prime [58:58] was right there. [58:59] >> Yeah. [58:59] >> You know, Lennox Lewis, you got to put [59:01] Lennox Lewis in that conversation. Even [59:04] prime time Larry Holmes, you got to put [59:06] him in that conversation, right? But [59:07] Mike Tyson was 5'11, you know, as a [59:11] heavyweight. That's crazy. And he was [59:12] only like 215, 220 in his prime. But [59:15] that bombing and weaving and constant [59:17] movement, he would just overwhelm guys. [59:19] You see the tall guys putting their [59:20] hands out, they just they were just [59:22] dealing with this [ __ ] Wolverine that [59:24] was running towards them. [59:25] >> Yeah. And and I had just seen something [59:28] from him or read a quote and he he said [59:30] it wasn't my physicality that was my [59:32] greatest asset. It was my elusiveness. [59:34] It was that I was so elusive that I [59:36] could get in and I could get to work, [59:38] you know. [59:38] >> Yes. [59:38] >> And [59:40] a lot of people, unless you're like a [59:42] real um practitioner or, you know, a [59:46] student of the sport, they don't see [59:47] that. They just see they just see the [59:49] bombs coming and they attribute that to [59:52] he's got punching power. He's this [59:53] monster. But there's just so much more [59:55] intricate. You know, it's like you said [59:58] about Anderson, like this is an art [60:00] form. This is it's a game of of setting [60:04] things up. It's a chess match. You know, [60:05] everybody looks at it like it's [60:06] checkers, but it's there's so many more [60:08] moves that could be made and that need [60:10] to be made to be the best at this. [60:12] >> And you really want to be appreciated by [60:14] the people that understand that. You [60:16] don't want to be the guy that gives into [60:18] the the howls and the the cheers of the [60:20] casuals. The the real feeling, the good [60:23] feeling that fighters get is when [60:25] someone is a true student of the game, [60:27] who really understands what they like, I [60:29] love it when you're doing this. I love [60:31] that thing you do when you do. There's [60:33] those that's what guys want to hear. [60:34] They want to hear like from their fellow [60:37] fighters. Like if you know a like when [60:39] an elite fighter goes up to another [60:40] elite fighter, it's like, "Bro, I [60:42] [ __ ] love what you're doing." You [60:44] could see they're like, "Thank Like it's [60:45] like hits different% means more when [60:49] when you know that a guy is really [60:50] operating at a very high level, [60:52] >> right? Yeah. Cuz the rest of the people [60:54] have never stepped room into even a gym [60:56] to spar or like go a couple rounds of [60:58] grappling, you know? So it's [60:59] >> they often times they don't know what [61:01] they're seeing. [61:01] >> They have no understanding. [61:02] >> Sometimes they think when the guy's [61:03] missing it's cuz he sucks, you You know [61:05] what is funny is that [61:08] even I have had that realization cuz [61:10] like growing up it was like me and my [61:11] pops watching UFC and to me I you know [61:14] that was that was my thing. But I would [61:16] always sit there and go well why doesn't [61:18] this guy do this? It's right there. Just [61:19] do that. It's right there. It's like [61:21] dude you're not standing in a cage [61:23] surrounded by thousands of people. You [61:25] don't have the same fatigue. You don't [61:26] know injuries you're going into with it. [61:28] you don't know what you practiced [61:30] leading up to it that you even have the [61:32] capacity to think about and to act on. [61:35] It's like there's just so many things. [61:36] So like I watch stuff now and I'm so [61:39] much better at that because I'm sitting [61:41] there going he could do that but I don't [61:43] know what he's seeing, you know? I don't [61:44] know what's going on in his mind. So [61:46] >> yeah, there's there's different levels [61:47] to it. [61:48] >> Yeah, for sure. It's I mean it's a very [61:51] complex game. It really is. I wanted to [61:54] ask you a question. Do you think that it [61:56] was a benefit for you to lose your first [61:58] two fights? Do you think there's maybe [62:00] something to that? Cuz we were talking [62:02] about your first two opponents in the [62:03] UFC being undefeated until they fought [62:05] you. They had never experienced loss as [62:09] a professional before and then they get [62:11] on this crazy big hype thing. And [62:13] there's something about being undefeated [62:15] as well, especially when you're a guy [62:17] like Wellmaker who's not just [62:18] undefeated, but a knockout artist. Like [62:20] people get really really jazzed up and [62:22] excited about that. [62:24] Do you think that maybe having that bad [62:26] feeling of loss earlier in your career [62:29] maybe grounded you more? [62:31] >> Yeah, certainly. I uh I went six and0 [62:34] undefeated as an amateur, but I can tell [62:37] you at that time I was not living a [62:40] fighter's lifestyle to the fullest. You [62:42] know, at that time I would literally go [62:45] to practice in the morning and then I [62:47] had to go to work at night or whatever. [62:49] But I was like, man, fighting is the [62:50] best. You just go wake up, practice [62:52] once, you get to kick it. the whole rest [62:54] of the day you get to go fight and make [62:55] all this money and and live your dream. [62:57] That's all it takes. This is this is [62:59] cool and all and I'm winning all these [63:00] amateur scene fights which that's what [63:02] the amateurs are for for learning and [63:05] getting your experience. But um yeah, it [63:09] really showed me that there was change [63:11] that needed to be be made in what I did [63:15] with with fighting and what I did [63:17] outside of fighting. And outside of [63:19] fighting was was arguably more [63:21] important. you know, there was a lot [63:22] that I needed to change, uh, a lot that [63:25] I needed to refocus on and and make [63:27] right by. And it wasn't until I did [63:30] those things that I saw this this [63:34] drastic change. You know, it wasn't [63:35] until I that I erased all the negatives [63:38] and then filled it with all the [63:39] positives that I'm able to be on a [63:42] 10ight win streak doing what I'm doing [63:44] now because who knows? I mean, maybe [63:47] maybe I would have changed that, but I [63:49] don't think it would have been as [63:51] drastic if I hadn't experienced those [63:53] two losses the way I did. [63:55] >> So, before those two losses, your first [63:58] two professional fights, were you kind [64:00] of [ __ ] off? [64:01] >> Yeah, for sure. [64:02] >> Yeah. What were you doing? [64:04] >> Just everything. I mean, [64:06] >> drinking, partying, [64:07] >> smoking, drinking, being a delinquent, [64:09] being [64:10] >> not the best partner. Um, [64:12] >> how old were you back then? Uh, I came [64:14] back from college in 2017. I, uh, tore [64:18] my meniscus in a dual meet and then my [64:21] coach was [64:22] >> same knee. [64:22] >> Uh, my right knee, different knee. Coach [64:25] is an [ __ ] about it. I snap, crackle, [64:27] popped all the way through the rest of [64:28] the season. Wasn't until after an [64:30] [ __ ] about in what way? Like you [64:31] didn't want to make [64:32] >> He just ignored it like completely. He [64:33] just pretty much told me suck it up. [64:35] Like, [64:36] >> oh, what a great coach. [64:37] >> And uh, yeah, exactly. That's why I [64:39] didn't go back. I mean, it was a lot of [64:41] things. I was in Bristol, Tennessee. So, [64:43] it's like there's not a whole lot to do [64:45] out there coming from SoCal. So, that [64:47] was a a culture shock. I was on my own [64:50] for the very first time. And then, yeah, [64:52] I got hurt. So, then I started I don't [64:54] know, everybody else is out there [64:55] partying and stuff. I never partied. I [64:56] grew up very religious. I was very [64:58] strict. I all throughout high school, I [65:01] didn't I didn't touch anything. I didn't [65:02] look anything. I didn't wanted to [65:04] partake in anything. I I just wrestled. [65:06] That was my only drug was wrestling back [65:08] then, you know? Like, that's all I did. [65:10] And I had a lot of success then. And it [65:11] wasn't until I deviated from that course [65:15] and I started finding [65:18] fun or enjoyment or just maybe just [65:21] trying to fill time and and numb some of [65:24] the things that I was thinking about or [65:25] worrying about or like that wrestling [65:27] thing. It might not have been the [65:29] biggest thing to people, but for me like [65:30] that was my first time experiencing [65:32] where I had just placed like eighth in [65:35] California State. I was fifth at the [65:37] national tournament. I was just just [65:39] doing everything right. you know, I had [65:40] won the US Open for my age division and [65:43] then I go to this and I'm on my own for [65:45] the first time and I have all this [65:46] adversity and it's just like I don't [65:48] know, I just felt like like why is this [65:51] happening to me? You know, I felt like [65:53] uh I I had been abandoned at that point [65:56] and maybe maybe other people would have [65:58] recovered from it better, but that was a [65:59] first time experience for me. So, but [66:01] yeah, I was barely 19 years old around [66:03] that time. I think I probably started [66:04] fighting around in the amateurs around [66:06] 20. So, I was I was relatively young, [66:09] but [66:09] >> So, that's when you started partying. [66:10] >> I was as soon as I tore my meniscus, I [66:13] finished out the wrestling season and [66:15] then I remember like even school like [66:18] slouched off. Like I didn't I wasn't [66:19] really caring about school too much. We [66:21] had finals. I didn't really even try too [66:24] hard and then I went I remember that day [66:26] as soon as the last final was done, we [66:28] all went to the my buddy's house and [66:31] that's the first time I ever got drunk [66:32] like ever. And so, and it's not to say [66:35] that those things are like the end of [66:36] the world if if you're controlling them, [66:38] but I certainly wasn't. You know, I had [66:39] like a lot of compounding things being [66:41] first time. And uh that carried over. It [66:44] was like that all the way up until [66:48] Yeah. Uh it was after that second loss, [66:52] I was probably still not doing what I [66:55] needed to be doing to be a disciplined [66:57] athlete. Um a respectable just like, you [67:01] know, good person really. I wasn't I [67:03] wasn't being a good person. And uh yeah, [67:06] there was there was a lot of change, a [67:08] lot of growth. You know, I had a lot of [67:09] people guide me back into that. And as [67:13] soon as I made those changes, yeah, now [67:15] now I'm here having been able to live [67:18] and experience it cuz that's the best [67:20] teacher out of all of them. You know, [67:22] you can go and watch a YouTube video on [67:24] how to do something, right? Like fix a [67:26] car. Oh, I know exactly where the [67:27] alternator is. I know where this this [67:29] pump is. I know how this connects to [67:31] this. Then the second you open it up, [67:33] it's like, okay, well, I didn't know I [67:35] needed this tool. And wow, this is [67:37] really way harder to pull off. And and [67:39] it's the experience. It's it's the [67:40] hardship and experience that teaches you [67:42] things. So 100%. If I hadn't gone [67:44] through that, who knows where I'd be and [67:47] what I'd be doing right now. you when [67:49] you hurt your knee in uh college, was [67:52] that the first time you'd ever done [67:54] where you had an injury where it [67:55] completely compromised your ability to [67:57] perform where you realize like, oh, like [68:00] my body's very vulnerable. [68:03] Um, so I I had actually sprained my [68:06] ankle. It was it's called the OC DS. [68:08] It's like the number one and number two [68:10] in Orange County face off. and uh I had [68:14] tore up my ankle pretty good and that [68:16] was going into league and then CIF and [68:19] all that stuff and I had almost worried [68:21] that I wouldn't be able to wrestle which [68:23] is a big thing. Luckily I was able to [68:25] wrestle on that but yes I guess the [68:28] meniscus was probably the first time [68:29] where it really took me out of my game [68:31] like that and to me it was more of a I [68:35] don't know if it was a vulnerability of [68:36] the body. I like I [68:40] had come to terms with that. I I [68:42] understood that. Um [68:46] I don't know. I maybe I I thought there [68:48] was a higher power like protecting me [68:50] and at that moment like I was no longer [68:51] protected and I had been abandoned and [68:53] that's kind of what got to me honestly [68:55] is I thought like God had [68:59] abandoned me essentially at that time. [69:01] >> Really? You didn't think like maybe God [69:03] would did you even consider that it was [69:05] a challenge that it was something? [69:06] >> I can look back on it and say with [69:08] certainty that it is. And that's [69:10] >> You were young. I was young and that's [69:11] that's why I said I clouded my mind with [69:13] a bunch of other things and instead of [69:14] focus on it and thinking about it [69:16] clearly I just just moved farther away [69:19] from the issue. So like at that time [69:21] that's what I thought. Now being a [69:23] mature man having grown my relationship [69:25] with God having read and studied and and [69:29] understanding that like I said that [69:30] those hardships are what build us is [69:33] that that's what tests our faith and [69:34] what really brings us closer to God. Now [69:37] I see that it it wasn't as big as I had [69:39] made it, you know, but I learned and and [69:43] maybe falling farther down the path [69:45] taught me even more. [69:46] >> Yeah, I think it does. I think fall I [69:48] think failing is actually a very good [69:50] teacher. I really do. I think in all [69:52] aspects of your life and uh especially [69:55] when you're a young person, you have [69:56] this idea of who you are. Having that [69:58] get knocked down where you have to [70:00] rebuild is very important because once [70:02] you rebuild and you realize like, okay, [70:06] now I know what I'm capable of. Now I [70:08] know that there's this is there's going [70:10] to be ups and downs, but I must maintain [70:12] the path, [70:13] >> right? [70:14] >> Did you have to get your knee fixed? Did [70:15] you have to do anything to it? [70:16] >> Yeah, they did a scope on it. So they [70:18] they shaved uh the part that was hanging [70:20] away, which to me I wish I had never [70:23] done. [70:23] >> Yeah, [70:23] >> because that knee gave has gives me [70:25] issues to today. like any of this [70:27] inversion like a triangle choke with a [70:29] right leg going over that meniscus. It [70:32] was my lateral meniscus outside. It [70:33] rolls over and it catches. So then I got [70:35] to bring my leg straight and pop it back [70:36] into place. And uh it's gotten better. [70:40] You know, I I get through it quicker [70:42] these days. But [70:43] >> they tell you to not even get that [70:45] surgery now. Well, so my my second [70:48] professional fight where I got ankle [70:50] locked. I got uh [70:53] I think it was like an outside reap and [70:55] I went to sit up to to grab it and he [70:58] had the position locked and my knee just [70:59] went like eight times in my ear real bad [71:02] and it was in the same exact spot that [71:04] lateral meniscus that outer which uh I [71:07] don't know what what other ligament is [71:09] on the outside there. But uh to me it [71:12] was like exactly where the the meniscus [71:14] on the right leg had happened. But I [71:16] grabbed up or sat up. I grabbed his [71:18] arms. I kept trying to fight through it [71:20] and then he switched it over to the to [71:22] the heel hook on the other side. My [71:23] ankle popped twice as I rolled and I [71:25] finally tapped in. But I didn't I didn't [71:27] even get an MRI on that one. I tried to. [71:30] It took so long that I was doing the [71:32] knees over toes and strengthening and I [71:34] was starting to move on it that by the [71:36] time they're like, "Okay, we can get [71:37] your MRI in a week." I'm like, "Dude, [71:39] I'm already moving and exercising and [71:40] doing stuff on this." Like I was cool. [71:43] But yeah, I never did anything with [71:44] that. And that knee's really never given [71:47] me any issues. And then the one I got [71:49] the scope on still bothers me to today. [71:52] >> Yeah. They don't recommend that anymore [71:54] because they did a study of people that [71:56] have had meniscus surgery versus not not [71:59] having meniscus surgery and just [72:01] rehabilitation. And it shows that [72:02] rehabilitation seems to be the better [72:04] path. [72:05] >> Yeah. [72:05] >> I mean, especially for like there's I [72:07] have one that's been scoped and it [72:09] bothers me all the time. That's the one [72:10] I got shot up today. [72:11] >> Okay. [72:12] >> It always bothers me. It's like there's [72:14] missing padding on one side of it. It's [72:16] missing. But I had a bucket handle tear [72:18] and in jiu-jitsu it would lock and my [72:21] leg would be stuff like stiff and I [72:23] could I have to like push it back into [72:25] place. It was excruciating. [72:26] >> It was like stuck locked out. [72:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. It would go back eventually [72:31] but it would take sometimes it would [72:33] take a day before and it would swell up, [72:35] you know. But if I knew, first of all, [72:38] this is a long time ago. Unfortunately, [72:39] there was no stem cells available back [72:41] then. I would have 100% just done stem [72:43] cells and now I would have done the [72:44] knees over toes stuff and a lot of [72:46] cycling like stationary box bike cycling [72:50] at not high resistance is a fairly low [72:53] resistance is just repetitive motion. [72:55] It's really good for getting the blood [72:57] flow to the knees and really good for [72:59] strengthening up the tendons and the [73:01] ligaments and everything but without [73:03] load. You you know it's just you do it [73:05] at like a very low resistance and just [73:07] for a long time and that's really good [73:09] for your knees. [73:10] >> Sweet. Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's [73:11] there's so many things like I think even [73:13] like leg extensions would probably be [73:14] like a good little exercise for the [73:16] knees. I mean [73:18] >> it's a pretty deliberate spot. I think [73:19] you know like backpacking [73:21] >> I think I think like a controlled [73:22] version of that because there's a lot of [73:24] times you know you're dropping down like [73:25] pretty heavily [73:26] >> this and that which is probably not the [73:28] best impact on the knee. Yeah. [73:30] >> But if you were doing it like because [73:32] that's kind of the knees over toes is [73:33] he's doing some similar motions. If you [73:35] had some maybe not as much weight, [73:38] >> some weight on your back, you could [73:39] slowly kind of find that and then have a [73:41] soft landing like right [73:42] >> I don't know. I was backpacking recently [73:44] and I was just thinking about this. I'm [73:45] like like in a controlled setting like [73:46] in a gym like on a machine that I'm like [73:48] maybe not as much as like a steep [73:50] incline or a decline like something like [73:52] that would be really good. And then the [73:53] range of motion stuff is I I've had, you [73:56] know, with with my injury and stuff and [73:59] time to step away, I've had like a lot [74:00] of opportunity to think and I I feel [74:03] like I've I've grown tremendously. And [74:05] it's like, yeah, all the little tiny [74:06] things like the knees, like they're [74:08] fine. Like I I do it. I really don't [74:11] have an issue too much. Like maybe if I [74:13] get into that position, it'll do it. But [74:15] it's like, you know, what happens when I [74:17] do get into like a position, let's say a [74:19] leg lock position for example, or like a [74:22] a straight knee bar, and you know what? [74:24] If my my flexibility is an issue there, [74:26] or just simply like a wizard position [74:28] where the knees getting popped up, like [74:30] just any there's there's a million in [74:31] one positions that the knees could be [74:33] compromised there. And so, yeah, it's [74:35] going back doing a lot of range of [74:36] motion stuff, a lot of strengthening on [74:38] the knees. Um, [74:39] >> do you do uh Polloquin step downs? Do [74:42] you know those? [74:43] >> No. Uh Charles Polloquin seem to find [74:46] pollin simple. You're essentially doing [74:49] it either you're doing it from um an [74:51] incline board with like a little bit of [74:53] elevation or you're just doing it from a [74:55] straight up step. And what you're doing [74:57] is you're just lowering yourself down. [75:00] So one foot is above on the step and the [75:02] other foot you're lowering like that. [75:04] Like there. There you go. He's doing it [75:05] on plates. Very simple. Very simple, [75:09] right? I mean, you're literally only [75:10] going like 10 inches, [75:12] >> but you're going up and down like that, [75:14] and it's just controlling the body [75:16] weight like that. Phenomenal for knee [75:18] strengthening and for knee stability. [75:20] It's excellent. It's one of the best [75:22] exercises. [75:23] >> Sweet. [75:24] >> You doing uh backwards pulls with like [75:26] either a sled or on a treadmill. Do you [75:29] walk backwards doing that? I I'm not [75:31] doing like really any exercises uh [75:35] weight and like I mean I do little [75:37] things but for strength and conditioning [75:40] after boxing but I stay away from the [75:41] weights [75:42] >> but it's not even for the weights. I'm [75:43] talking you do it on a treadmill. [75:45] >> Okay, [75:46] >> you do on a treadmill just basically [75:47] keep the treadmill off and just with [75:49] your own resistance you step backwards. [75:51] Okay. [75:52] >> So, you put your back to the screen and [75:54] hold on to the bars and you're basically [75:56] just pushing with your legs going [75:58] backwards and it's really good for [76:00] strengthening your knees and also for [76:01] blood flow. That's a knees over toes guy [76:03] thing. [76:03] >> Okay. All right. [76:04] >> His his page is phenomenal. That guy [76:06] >> I'll go to the Yeah. the 24-hour fitness [76:08] and burn out their treadmill. [76:09] >> Yeah. Yeah. You can do that or you could [76:10] use a sled. You know, we do it with a [76:12] sled here. [76:13] >> You know, you put the sled you put like [76:14] a waist strap and you just back up and [76:17] pull the sled. It doesn't have to be a [76:18] lot of weight. It's not It's not a [76:19] weight thing. Right. It's really just a [76:21] circulation thing and a strengthening [76:23] thing. [76:23] >> He has another one that [76:25] uh you get the band around your back and [76:29] then you're kind of [76:31] I forgot how he did it. You're you're [76:33] essentially like uh leaned over and then [76:35] straightening the leg. It's got it's [76:36] you're like in a lunge, I guess. [76:38] Actually, [76:38] >> you're in a lunge. The knee goes over [76:40] the toes. You have the resistance on the [76:42] back and then you're pushing and [76:44] essentially doing the same thing as [76:45] probably walking back with this leg. [76:47] >> The band is attached in the front or in [76:49] behind [76:49] >> attached in the front. So resistance is [76:51] pulling you forward. Okay. [76:52] >> And you're you're lunged over the knee [76:54] the knee over the toe [76:56] >> and then you're you're extending that [76:58] that leg and it's just hitting that knee [77:00] perfectly. [77:01] >> It's it's very similar to the one you're [77:02] talking about, I'm sure. [77:03] >> Yeah. because so much time you spend [77:05] pushing forward and not a lot of people [77:07] spend much time pushing backwards, but [77:09] pushing backwards is really important. [77:11] It's really important to just overall [77:14] knee strength, [77:14] >> right? I think I think the side to side [77:17] stuff too is like I was almost like let [77:19] me get in the sand and I do a lot of [77:21] like working out in the sand just for [77:22] the boxing for the for the footwork and [77:25] being able to stay in a stance. But like [77:27] that little like side explosion stuff [77:28] would probably start strengthening those [77:30] those muscles on the side and the [77:32] ligaments going that way. [77:33] >> And then I'm trying to think like, you [77:36] know, how do you get that that motion? I [77:38] mean, you could get a band and probably [77:40] like do kind of like a lateral extension [77:42] or pull it up into your like an inward [77:45] extension. [77:46] >> You know who used to do a lot of weird [77:47] [ __ ] with bands? BJ Penn. [77:49] >> Oh yeah. He did a lot of weird [ __ ] in [77:51] his prime with like flexibility stuff [77:53] and developing strength from weird [77:55] positions with bands. [77:57] >> Yeah. I see. Uh [78:00] I don't know if BJ was was a part of [78:02] that program, but like the Raphael dos [78:04] all the the fascia kind of stuff. [78:06] >> Yeah. [78:07] >> Yeah. Well, Rafael Dos Anjos was [78:09] training with Nick Kers. Nick Kersan was [78:11] a student of Marv Marinovich. [78:14] >> Okay. [78:14] >> And Marv Marino is the guy who trained [78:16] BJ when he was like in his prime. Okay. [78:18] when he when he really got super serious [78:20] about cardio, but it's a very [78:22] controversial approach. The Marinovich's [78:24] approach was, you already know how to [78:26] fight, so forget about fight training. [78:29] We're just going to give you the most [78:30] [ __ ] insane gas tank you've ever had, [78:32] and that way you'll be able to execute [78:33] everything you want. And so, the primary [78:35] focus was just plyometrics [78:38] >> and their conditioning program. And it [78:40] was hell, [78:41] >> right? [78:41] >> And BJ did not like going through it, [78:43] but when he went through it, he was like [78:44] unstoppable cuz he just never gassed, [78:47] >> right? And it's that's the interesting [78:49] thing about conditioning in general is [78:52] we have these ideas of what the [78:55] threshold is like what a human body's [78:57] capable of doing for five minutes for [78:59] three rounds or five rounds like in [79:01] terms of what kind of pace that you [79:02] could put up. And then you have certain [79:04] guys that come along that sort of [79:06] redefine what the threshold is like [79:08] Morab. Rob comes along and here you got [79:11] some guy whose gas tank is [ __ ] [79:13] superhuman and he makes the best [79:15] fighters in the world just wilt under [79:18] the this constant pressure being taken [79:20] down and his strength and his his his [79:23] skill as a wrestler. It's just this [79:26] constant attack, constant constant [79:28] constant constant. And you wonder like, [79:30] okay, what how long did it take to build [79:32] up that reserve? How long did it take to [79:34] build up that gas tank? That's not [79:36] something you can achieve in just one [79:37] camp, right? Like that's that's [79:39] something that takes literally years to [79:41] develop. [79:42] >> Oh, for sure. That's why I mean, like I [79:44] said, going back to wrestling, my my [79:47] what what I would say my superpower, my [79:50] most utilized skill set was my my [79:53] cardio, my gas tank, you know. Um, and I [79:55] don't know, I what is it? Anabolic [79:57] versus anorobic, like the striking [79:59] versus the grappling cardio. [80:01] >> Mhm. [80:03] I think there's something to be said [80:04] about that wrestling cardio, like just [80:08] that like strict, you're just grinded [80:10] out 24/7, you know, you're always [80:12] colliding, your muscles are always [80:13] tensed up. I think there's something to [80:15] be said about that that if you had great [80:17] wrestling cardio, you could do almost [80:19] anything in the world. [80:19] >> Yeah. It builds up a a foundation that's [80:22] kind of unstoppable, [80:23] >> right? [80:24] >> If you can maintain that kind of work [80:26] ethic cuz it's it's a it's an insane. [80:28] That's the other thing about it is the [80:30] mental toughness that comes from [80:31] wrestling, right? [80:32] >> There's some like when a guy has like an [80:34] elite wrestling background and he enters [80:35] into the UFC, I always say they have an [80:38] advantage. They have an advantage over [80:39] everybody else because [80:41] >> whether or not you choose to put [80:43] yourself or you get coached by someone [80:44] who puts you through hell in camp. With [80:46] wrestling, you don't have a choice. Like [80:48] everyone's going through hell, right? [80:49] >> There's no one get there's no easy path [80:52] to get on a [ __ ] wrestling team [80:53] anywhere in the country, [80:54] >> right? [80:56] >> You have to wrestle for your your [80:57] position. It's literally [80:59] >> you got to battle for that that spot, [81:01] you know, and then the practice is once [81:03] or twice a day of just purely grinding [81:05] it out. Staying in a wrestling stance [81:07] alone is extremely tough to do. Now [81:09] you're doing it at elevated pace. Now [81:12] you're doing it with someone snapping on [81:13] your head. Now you're just like, and [81:14] then you go and you you do live [81:15] wrestling and then finish it up with [81:17] sprints. Yeah. To me to me there's [81:19] nothing that beats that. Like and and I [81:22] think [81:23] the the style of it is like go go go. [81:26] Like even jiu-jitsu, you're finding [81:27] places to rest. You know, you can throw [81:29] on in the guard and and you can you can [81:32] rest in certain entanglements. Striking [81:34] is all about being able to have an [81:37] explosive motion and then find your way [81:39] to to be defensive to slow down what [81:41] they're doing. You're either you're [81:42] getting in stuffing it, you're at a [81:44] distance where you can be a little bit [81:46] relaxed because they can't reach you or, [81:48] you know, you're you're moving off [81:49] making them miss where there's no [81:51] resistance there. You know, I just with [81:54] wrestling, you don't have any of that. [81:55] there's there's no chance for a break, [81:57] especially if you got someone like Morab [81:58] who's just on you 247. And so to me, [82:02] that's, you know, back to the cardio [82:03] thing we talked about earlier. I don't [82:05] know. I I think if you got Yeah. elite [82:08] wrestling cardio, then you could do all [82:10] the rest of it. You'd be able to strike, [82:11] you'd be able to do the jiu-jitsu and [82:13] take homes, like you can hang for that [82:16] duration of time with great cardio. [82:18] >> It's also if you could figure out how to [82:20] be a great wrestler, you can kind of [82:21] figure out anything. It's just a matter [82:24] of taking that same focus that turned [82:25] you into a great wrestler and applying [82:27] it to whatever it is, MMA, whatever, [82:29] whatever else you're trying to do. If [82:32] you're willing to go through what it [82:33] took to become a great wrestler, that's [82:34] an extraordinary human. That's very few [82:37] people ever reach a very high level of [82:39] wrestling. It's just too [ __ ] hard. [82:41] >> Yeah. [82:42] >> And it's the best foundation for combat [82:44] sports, for sure, for MMA. Because if [82:47] you could take a guy down and he can't [82:48] take you down, that's a massive [82:50] advantage, right? [82:51] >> Massive. You dictate where the fight [82:52] takes place. And if you develop elite [82:54] striking on top of that, it's a perfect [82:57] combination. [82:57] >> Oh, for sure. I mean, anybody asking me [83:00] personally, I would say get a wrestling [83:03] background, get some boxing, you can [83:06] figure out the rest of it. You can [83:07] figure out how to check kicks, block [83:08] kicks, [83:09] >> you can you can do the rest of it. But [83:10] if you have those two fundamental core [83:12] bases, yeah, you're you're pretty good [83:14] against most people. [83:15] >> I would say that, too. But I would say [83:16] another thing is, and this is very [83:18] controversial, if I was to teaching a [83:21] young kid, I would say get into point [83:23] karate. Learn point karate because if [83:27] you could learn how to move the way [83:28] those guys move, the things that those [83:30] guy when you see like Michael Venom [83:32] Paige just stump people, they're just [83:34] stumped. Like I don't have any like [83:37] Kevin Holland who is fights everybody. [83:39] He's [ __ ] competitive with everybody [83:41] he fights. [83:42] >> With MVP, he was just stumped. like what [83:44] am I g what the [ __ ] am I doing? I can't [83:46] even touch this guy. [83:47] >> Right? [83:47] >> That is a giant skill set. And I always [83:50] said before MVP came onto the scene, I'm [83:52] like one of these guys, one of these [83:54] really elite point fighter guys is going [83:57] to come in and start [ __ ] everybody [83:58] out because you can't hit them. [83:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. And that goes back like him [84:02] and like Wonderboy are both the prime [84:04] examples of a karate style individual. [84:07] >> Yes. Um, and they're really long, so, [84:10] you know, they can utilize that a little [84:11] bit to their advantage with that that [84:13] lungey in and out. [84:14] >> But to be honest, yeah, that's something [84:16] that like I've wanted to delve into a [84:18] little bit more with myself cuz I like I [84:20] can throw kicks really well. Honestly, I [84:23] have I have good flexibility. I have the [84:25] ability to throw them with with speed, [84:27] with power. Um, but having something [84:30] like that where you can throw it nice [84:32] and fast and snappy, those little [84:33] sidekicks and the way that they throw [84:35] the kicks is great cuz [84:37] >> I mean the only other relation I would [84:38] have to that is the the Savat style. I [84:41] like the way the Savat style guys throw [84:42] their kicks. [84:43] >> I'm not very familiar with Savat. [84:45] >> The only thing that I I don't utilize [84:47] myself is a lot of the toe stuff because [84:49] I'm not wearing shoes to kick to the [84:52] body. [84:53] >> They're they're like stabbing you with [84:54] their toes. Everything like they'll even [84:56] they're even kicking like your leg. Yoza [84:58] does that. [84:58] >> Yeah. [84:59] >> He stabs guys in the body with his toes. [85:01] >> It's like the ball of his foot, right? [85:02] But like [85:02] >> Well, he's going in with the toes, man. [85:04] There's a lot of like slow-mo videos of [85:07] him stabbing guys in the liver with his [85:09] [ __ ] toes. [85:10] >> You know who else is [85:11] >> conditioning their toes. [85:12] >> Yeah. Well, that's the thing is you [85:14] better have some You'll probably have [85:16] many multiple breaks on each toe leading [85:18] up to that. Yeah. Yeah, cuz it's just [85:20] that's why we were talking about the [85:21] front kick to the body is good if you do [85:24] it like a traditional Muay Thai where [85:25] you're going up and and out which is [85:27] fantastic. You can produce a lot of [85:29] speed and power but I think everybody [85:31] does this this kind of shovel up toes [85:34] into the body kick nowadays in the MMA [85:36] world. That's what I see more so. I mean [85:38] Connor Connor utilized the heck out of [85:40] that. Uh most guys bring the toes up. [85:44] It's And you better be very precise with [85:47] that cuz all it takes is one elbow [85:48] blocking down and your toes in half out. [85:50] Yeah. [85:51] >> Did you see um Rodriguez's toes after he [85:55] fought Fluffy? [85:55] >> Yeah. [85:56] >> Do you see that picture, Jamie? Pull [85:57] that picture up. It's off Gregory [85:59] Rodriguez his uh Instagram page [86:02] >> after he beat Fluffy. Uh he showed a [86:04] photo of his You haven't seen it? [86:06] >> I haven't seen it, actually. [86:06] >> Oh, you're going to cringe. It's hell. [86:09] >> Is it like like a Jon Jones break where [86:11] the [86:11] >> worse bones are sticking out? The bones [86:13] aren't sticking out, but it's it's [86:15] hilacious. You look at what happened to [86:17] his toes, [86:17] >> dude. And that one like that takes it [86:19] out of you. You start smashing your toes [86:20] like that and you got to continue [86:21] fighting. [86:22] >> Oh, yeah. [86:22] >> Or you got to continue into a fight camp [86:24] with like broken toes. [86:26] >> Yeah. [86:26] >> Yeah. That's what one of my wrestling [86:28] camps, I was chasing my brother in the [86:29] front yard the day before and his heel [86:31] came back and my pinky toe was like [86:32] this, straight sideways. Went to the [86:35] family doctor. [86:37] Oh yeah. I have a picture just like that [86:39] actually with my fingers, my toes [86:41] throwing westside. [86:42] Oh, look at that. Jesus. [86:45] Ow. [86:46] >> Yeah, that's that's terrible. [86:48] >> Those feet have seen some elbows, son. [86:50] >> Right. He's got a big old bunny [86:52] everything on there. [86:54] >> Wow. [86:54] >> Yeah, that's that's [86:57] uh he did in really good fashion, too. [87:01] >> Yeah. There's a guy that's just I don't [87:03] understand how he makes 185, right? I [87:06] don't understand it. [87:07] >> Whenever I interview him, I'm like, [87:09] you're 220 lbs, sir. Yeah. How are you? [87:12] You're at least 220 and shredded. [87:15] >> I know. I mean, it's like I guess the [87:17] bigger guys have a little bit more to [87:19] lose. There's they probably [87:21] >> definitely do all that muscle. You have [87:23] water to lose for sure, [87:24] >> right? If you're shredded, I mean, [87:26] that's one thing to be said, but [87:27] especially like heavyweights like the [87:29] Alex Pedas, I'm sure he he gets a little [87:31] bit looser, goes up to 220 and then But [87:34] that's but that's still 40 pounds. I [87:35] mean, that's a lot of weight. [87:37] >> Yeah, it's a lot of weight to lose. And [87:39] but [87:40] >> but I don't know. I mean, look at Aljo [87:43] cutting to 135. [87:45] >> Yeah. [87:46] >> He's like walk 175 lbs. [87:48] >> Yeah. [87:49] >> You know, I mean, I think [87:50] >> but he doesn't do it anymore and he [87:51] feels way better at 45 [87:53] >> for sure. And he had to move up because [87:55] of that. I think a lot of the [87:56] bantamweights get up to relatively that [87:58] weight. I think everybody I think that's [88:01] why I I've started seeing people try to [88:05] comment the the whole weight bully [88:06] thing. They've said it to me on [88:08] Instagram this and that. They saw one of [88:10] my training pictures where I was a [88:11] little a little loose and uh they're [88:13] like the funniest comment was someone [88:15] was like like hire a nutritionist ASAP. [88:18] Like and I was just cracking up at that. [88:20] Like these guys are roasting me. But um [88:23] yeah, I think everybody cuts relatively [88:25] the same amount of weight. Like [88:26] >> how big do you get? Like what's the [88:27] heaviest you get in between? [88:30] >> 135. [88:31] >> No, that's what you weigh, son. What do [88:33] you weigh when you [88:34] >> when you thicken up? What's the heaviest [88:36] you've ever done? [88:36] >> 175 is probably give or take. Maybe like [88:39] 178 if I'm just full of food eating and [88:41] being a delinquent, but yeah, I get up [88:44] there pretty big. So, [88:45] >> but when you're in camp, like the week [88:47] before, what do you like to be at? [88:49] >> Uh, I've had all my cuts right around [88:51] 150. I don't really get much lower than [88:53] that. [88:54] >> That's not too bad. [88:55] >> It's not the end of the world. I mean, [88:58] 149, 148, 145 would be beautiful. If I [89:01] could just do 10 be no problem. But, uh, [89:04] this last time we did 11 in one night [89:06] and it was smooth sailing. You know, I [89:09] just keep, that's another thing. You [89:10] experience it more, you get better and [89:11] better at it. And, uh, I've gotten wiser [89:14] that the the sauna doesn't have to be a [89:16] million 10 degrees, you know, like [89:19] the the USC portable saunas, I think it [89:22] like maxed out at 150, it said. [89:24] >> And I could send that for 22. [89:26] >> Is that a red light sauna? [89:29] >> The portable ones. It probably is, [89:31] right? probably is. I don't recall, but [89:34] I'm sure it is. But that with the [89:36] emergency blankets and then cooling off [89:38] in between, that's something that I had [89:41] to get wiser to as well, you know, like [89:43] cuz everybody tries to tell you, you're [89:45] already there. You're already sweating. [89:46] Like, don't don't lose the heat. And [89:48] it's like, no, dude. This isn't a [89:50] sprint. This is a marathon. Like, we're [89:51] taking this nice and easy. So, like this [89:53] last time I was taking all my gear off, [89:55] putting ice on the body, cooling the [89:56] body temperature back down, which is is [90:00] arguably the most important aspect of [90:02] the whole weight cut is the body [90:03] temperature versus the dehydration cuz [90:05] the body gets dehydrated and it has more [90:08] of a capacity to deal with that than it [90:10] does to overheat. If you overheat, [90:12] you're done for. Like, that's it is what [90:14] it is. [90:14] >> So, is the overheating does that drain [90:16] you more in terms of like your ability [90:18] to recover for the next day? Like so [90:20] when you're cutting weight if you're [90:21] doing it at like 180 or something like [90:23] that something high and is it that like [90:25] because it does wear you out obviously [90:27] like if I do a sauna session for 20 [90:29] minutes when I get out I'm tired. [90:31] >> Yeah. [90:31] >> So you've got to think if you're doing [90:33] multiple ones of those if you're trying [90:34] to make weight and then you have to [90:35] fight the next day you went through a [90:37] lot physically [90:38] >> right [90:39] >> as opposed to what you're doing. Like if [90:40] you got it at 150 it's not that bad. [90:43] It's just just sucks a little. [90:45] >> Yeah. cuz cuz I've I've done both like [90:48] >> and and and that's you're throwing a [90:50] sauna suit on as well, you know, the [90:51] sweet sweat, the sauna suit and then you [90:53] get in that that portable sauna, but [90:55] it's like before I was I was doing that [90:57] with a pair of of I don't know like uh [91:01] spandex, you know, like top and bottom [91:03] and then a jacket and then sweats and [91:05] then a big jacket and then I'm getting [91:07] in the 180 190°ree 24-hour sauna and [91:10] sitting there for 15 minutes. It's like [91:12] it's like, dude, yeah, I felt there's [91:14] there's been weight cuts where I just [91:15] feel like like terrible, atrocious. I [91:17] look terrible, you know? And then I have [91:19] some of these more recent ones where I I [91:21] lower the temperature down. I I extend [91:25] the duration of of how long the the [91:27] weight cut is itself. And there's [91:29] there's a major difference in it for [91:30] sure. [91:31] >> That's really good advice. Work smarter, [91:33] not harder. [91:34] >> Oh, dude. You've trained for two months [91:36] over just pushing your body to the [91:38] absolute limit. you're going to go fight [91:39] somebody for 15 minutes, you know, [91:42] possibly 25 minutes. You're there's all [91:44] this hard stuff already happening. You [91:46] know, that that part should not be hard. [91:48] That should be the It's It's going to be [91:50] hard, but you should make it as easy as [91:51] possible. That should be the mindset to [91:53] it. [91:54] >> Yeah, it makes sense. It makes a lot of [91:55] sense. Did you see the Moses Itama fight [91:58] this weekend? [91:59] >> Uh, I don't think so. [92:01] >> Do you know who he is, right? [92:02] >> No. [92:02] >> No. Okay. He up until this fight was [92:06] probably the most promising prospect in [92:08] the heavyweight division in more than a [92:11] decade. He is uh a young guy. He's only [92:15] 21 years old and people were talking [92:17] about him being uh able to break Mike [92:20] Tyson's record of being the youngest [92:21] ever heavyweight champion. [92:22] >> So he missed that mark and then he [92:25] finally got a title fight this weekend. [92:28] looked phenomenal for the first few [92:30] rounds. And [92:31] >> oh, he I know exactly what you're [92:33] talking about. [92:33] >> Yes. Y [92:34] >> and uh he was fighting this big Croatian [92:37] cat. I I forget his name. [92:39] >> Yeah. Yeah. [92:39] >> Uh Philillip Herrosovich. [92:42] And uh he [92:45] >> stunted on him at first. [92:46] >> Yeah. In the beginning, you mean he was [92:47] tuning this guy up. I mean, he's so fast [92:50] and so elite, but he had never been into [92:52] deep water before. every one of his [92:54] fights he'd been able to stop people and [92:56] he hadn't had any like real good [92:59] decision wins where he fought a big and [93:01] he's not the biggest heavyweight but [93:02] he's wicked fast. I mean, just wicked [93:05] fast and beautiful technique. But as the [93:08] fight went on, he started to fade. And [93:11] in the eighth, you could see him like [93:12] really slowing down and just really [93:15] trying to take this dude out, but [93:17] couldn't and thought he could. It was [93:19] emptying the gas tank instead of boxing [93:22] him and just uh outpointing him and [93:24] being skillful. He just was [93:26] inexperienced and he emptied the gas [93:28] tank and then Philip came back, man. [93:31] >> Yeah. And he finished him. [93:33] >> Yeah. Well, he finished him in a weird [93:34] way. It's like it was almost exhaustion. [93:36] >> Yeah. He's just stumbling over himself [93:38] at that point [93:38] >> cuz they're both exhausted cuz it was a [93:40] war. There's a nice right hand and he [93:42] stung him there. [93:42] >> Well, did you see their little like [93:44] table talk where they're [93:45] >> Mhm. [93:45] >> sitting across from each other. [93:47] >> And uh [93:48] >> he's all like, "It's not about, you [93:51] know, like how many times you can get [93:52] hit or you can hit somebody, it's about [93:53] how many times you can get hit and keep [93:55] coming forward." [93:56] >> Yeah. [93:56] >> And then that Moises is like that's the [93:58] stupidest thing I've ever heard. He's [93:59] like, "Why would you base your fighting [94:00] style off like how many times you can [94:02] get hit [94:03] >> and then lo and behold, you know, like [94:04] this comes across." That's why, you [94:06] know, I talk about technicality and [94:09] finesse and skill set and it's a game of [94:11] hit and don't get hit, [94:12] >> but dude, you could just have someone [94:14] who's just so tough and just so willing [94:17] that this is a perfect scenario of that. [94:19] That's that's why there is so many [94:21] aspects to this fight game. [94:23] >> Well, it was really funny because he was [94:24] basically quoting Rocky. [94:26] >> Yeah. Yeah, [94:27] >> he really did grow. It ain't about how [94:29] hard you hit. It's about how hard you [94:31] can get hit and keep moving forward. [94:33] Exactly. [94:34] >> And he, you know, and [94:35] >> and he pulled a rocky. [94:36] >> He literally did exactly what he said he [94:38] was going to do. But it's all these [94:39] things. It's like youth and hubris and [94:42] thinking you're the greatest of all time [94:44] and and looked like the greatest. Go [94:46] pull up a Moses Itama highlight reel cuz [94:49] if you look at his highlight reel, [94:50] you're like, "This guy's the second [94:52] coming." Like he's this guy is something [94:54] really special, man. when you watch how [94:56] he fights, I mean, his his hand speed, [94:59] his knockout power, and for a young guy, [95:02] you know, this this fight, I think he [95:04] was 20, and you look at his highlight [95:06] reel, you're like, "Oh my god, the sky's [95:08] is the limit for this kid. He's just [95:09] putting everybody out." [95:11] But, you know, he wasn't really being [95:13] tested, you know, and then he finally, I [95:15] think, was it Derek Chisora? Who did he [95:18] fight before this fight? he finally beat [95:22] a top level guy but and he took him out [95:26] and so but you know it was a guy who's a [95:28] real veteran been around a long time [95:31] >> and he kind of thought that he could put [95:34] it on everybody and knock everybody out [95:37] but you know this is like one of the [95:39] things about any combat sport is you you [95:42] have to know when to hit the gas when [95:44] not to and you have to have those [95:46] experiences of these long grueling [95:48] fights and he really didn't have that [95:50] yet. [95:51] >> So, his first experience with a a Yeah, [95:53] Dillian White. That's who it was. [95:55] >> And his long his first experience with a [95:59] real No, it was it was Chisora, I think, [96:01] cuz I think it was Dillian White first [96:04] and then Chisora was the next fight [96:05] afterwards. Am I right about that? [96:07] >> No, it's just his KOs on this video. [96:11] >> What is it? Blow up his record. Who is [96:12] his last fight before Hergo? [96:18] But I mean, I still think he's got [96:20] potential to be a world champion for [96:21] sure. I mean, the kid's only 21 years [96:23] old. [96:25] >> Germaine Franklin. [96:26] >> Dillian White right there. That's what [96:28] it was. It wasn't Derek Chisor, it was [96:30] Dillian White. Um, and Germaine Franklin [96:33] was right after that. So, every fight [96:35] has been TKO, TKO, TKO, TKO, TKO. I [96:40] mean, if you watch his fights, I mean, [96:42] they're [ __ ] stunning performances, [96:45] but wasn't really being tested in that [96:48] way with a really big, durable [96:51] heavyweight who could take a shot, who, [96:53] you know, has a ton of experience and, [96:56] you know, now he's got his first loss, [96:59] but he'll be back. [97:00] >> Yeah. [97:00] >> He's only 21. [97:01] >> Well, that's, you know, on the [97:04] that's that's how they do it in boxing. [97:06] They feed these guys, build them up, and [97:08] then when they're solidified now, now [97:10] you fight somebody who's substantial, [97:12] you know. Um, [97:14] >> and that's, you know, I've done a lot of [97:16] comparisons, but that's to me where the [97:18] MMA guys are just more down to go and do [97:20] their thing. They'll fight anybody at [97:21] any given time. [97:23] >> By decision, though, or is that by [97:25] necessity? Because the UFC, you know, if [97:28] they call you up and say, "Hey, uh, in [97:31] four weeks, do you want to fight for the [97:33] world title? I know you've never fought [97:34] in the UFC before, [97:36] but that's in boxing that's unheard of. [97:38] That would never take place, [97:39] >> right? [97:40] >> But in the UFC, if you're a pretty good [97:42] fighter and you're doing well and you [97:44] win a bunch of championships in other [97:46] organizations and all of a sudden this [97:49] opportunity arises, we've had guys with [97:51] their first fight in the UFC fight for [97:53] the world title. [97:55] >> That is true. I mean, that's what you [97:57] get when you have a like a melting pot [97:58] of things, though, because those guys [98:00] are like well established in their own [98:03] personal careers. Maybe wrestling or [98:07] >> kickboxing or whatever it is [98:09] >> or rising or [98:10] >> Yeah. It's not like you're pulling out [98:11] like the local kid and tell telling him, [98:13] "Let's go fight for a world title." I [98:15] mean, [98:15] >> but they would put out pull out the [98:17] local kid and fight a guy who has 10 15 [98:19] fights in the UFC. That does happen. [98:20] That happens all the time. Well, that's [98:22] what I'm saying is like [98:24] >> I I I think that the boxers would be [98:28] more hesitant to take something like [98:29] that like you're saying, but the MMA [98:31] guys are always down to do that kind of [98:32] stuff. [98:33] >> Well, the boxers though, [98:33] >> it's a different it's a different [98:34] culture. I suppose [98:35] >> it is, but it's also the fact that no [98:38] one gives a [ __ ] who the promoter is in [98:39] boxing. No, if if someone's going to [98:41] watch Jervante Davis fight, they don't [98:43] say, "Well, who's promoting that? Hold [98:44] on. Is this for Bob Arum? Is this for [98:47] Golden Boy?" Like, no one cares, right? [98:49] It's just who are the fighters? With the [98:51] UFC, it's a very different animal. So, [98:54] if you get a call for the UFC, like, oh [98:55] my god, we're in the big leagues, [98:57] >> right? [98:57] >> And that's different. [98:58] >> 100%. Yeah. They have all sorts of [99:01] different promotions and different [99:02] people you can fight for in boxing. But [99:04] UFC is is the pinnacle. It's [99:06] >> Yeah. If you get the call from the UFC, [99:08] that's where you want to go. So, there's [99:09] there's a whole lot of differences to [99:11] it. I just think um whatever it is that [99:14] Yeah. Yeah, the MMA guys are are more [99:16] willing to step in on their short notice [99:18] and and put their careers at risk and [99:20] put their, you know, opportunities to to [99:24] continue fight streaks or whatever at a [99:26] risk. So, that's that's how I see it. [99:29] That's what I picked up from those two [99:31] different things. [99:32] >> Yeah, it's definitely a different [99:33] culture, right? It's a culture of [99:34] accepting those risks and also of [99:37] probably people that are just [99:41] they're they're much more willing to [99:42] take a chance, it seems. Yeah, exactly. [99:45] That's why I think like that's us a [99:47] little bit more padded up to [99:48] >> a little bit more wild to be fighting [99:50] MMA anyway. You know, [99:52] >> that's it's a little bit more wild for [99:54] sure. And that's that's a little bit uh [99:57] >> more of a business I would say in my [100:00] opinion. [100:01] >> The boxing [100:01] >> the boxing is [100:03] >> which [100:03] >> Well, you got a lot of like very smart [100:05] people involved in boxing that are like [100:07] managers and trainers that are like [100:09] really working to build a guy and turn [100:11] him into a prospect, turn him into a [100:13] contender. Yeah. [100:14] >> And then turn him into a champion. [100:15] >> In the UFC, you only have the one [100:16] organization doing that and they're [100:18] managing all the weight classes and all [100:20] the prospects and they're picking and [100:22] choosing [100:24] >> they schedule fight card. They schedule [100:28] fights around cards. They don't schedule [100:30] cards around fights. Right. So if you [100:33] like say if Canelo Alvarez is fighting [100:35] someone, it is whenever Canelo is ready [100:38] to fight, that's when the card takes [100:39] place. Yeah. [100:40] >> Right. So Canelo Alvarez wants to fight [100:41] September 12th. Okay, great. September [100:43] 12th, let's put together a fight card [100:45] around Canelo Alvarez. With the UFC, [100:47] it's like the UFC is coming to Salt Lake [100:48] City October 3rd. Who's there? [100:50] >> Right. [100:50] >> Who wants a fight? Like, we're going to [100:52] have a fight. Who's going to be on the [100:53] fight? [100:54] >> Who's going to be on the card? And then [100:55] you put the card together. So, it's a [100:57] different animal. [100:57] >> Yeah. No, they're they're different for [100:59] sure. I mean, I try to draw wisdom from [101:02] all all aspects of everything. So, I'm [101:04] constantly delving into all the [101:06] different realms myself. [101:07] >> Do you uh read a lot? Are you a guy who [101:12] do you like read anything on on [101:14] psychology or on warrior tactics? You [101:17] ever get into like book of five rings or [101:19] any of that [ __ ] [101:20] >> For sure. I'm reading uh it's called [101:22] Hogakari right now and it's essentially [101:25] um it's a it's a single individual [101:27] Yamamoto. [101:30] It's like Tun Tunishi or something. I [101:32] forget his name exactly but um he served [101:36] for like the the reigning leader at the [101:39] time. His leader passed away. He wanted [101:42] to commit sepeku because he was of that [101:45] that mentality that warrior mentality [101:47] but um his leader had had commanded like [101:50] that no one was allowed to do that this [101:52] and that. But he's taken a lot of [101:55] storylines, inspirations from all these [101:57] samurai cuz it's going into a time [101:59] period where the samurai weren't a [102:01] necessity anymore. And so the ideology, [102:04] the lifestyle, what it meant to to live [102:07] that bushidto lifestyle had changed a [102:09] different a little bit and their purpose [102:11] was different. And uh my boxing coach [102:13] gave it to me actually when I was kind [102:15] of in this limbo state of like it's [102:18] essentially saying how should a warrior [102:20] live outside of the fight, you know, [102:21] like what does he need to be doing on a [102:23] daily basis? And but then it's it's I [102:26] like the real life uh like storyline [102:29] because now you're getting a bunch of [102:30] different perspectives from all these [102:32] people that were samurai, all were [102:33] warriors, who lived that who, you know, [102:36] fought in battle and now you get to see [102:38] like a lot of different things. like [102:39] someone says you should do this and [102:40] someone says no, don't do that. And to [102:42] me, I like that because I get to kind of [102:45] delve through all the mindsets and then [102:47] apply what works best to me, you know, [102:49] but uh I love I love reading all that [102:52] stuff. I'm not been so good at staying [102:54] off the phone and and you know, I watch [102:56] a lot of YouTube, which is it's always [102:58] fighting or [103:00] >> some kind of gun channel or hiking or [103:02] camping or hunting or spear fishing or [103:04] something. But um yeah, I I'm trying to [103:07] get way better at that. trying to stay [103:08] off the screens like I I want to be more [103:11] interactive with the world around me, [103:13] learning things constantly and so [103:15] picking up a book and reading it is [103:18] along along that set of goals that I [103:20] have is continuously be doing that. [103:23] >> Yeah, I think there's benefits to a lot [103:25] of stuff on YouTube. I think YouTube is [103:27] not social media. And I think I learn a [103:30] lot on YouTube. And I just get it's for [103:33] me, I like to wind down on YouTube, just [103:35] watch some ancient history thing or [103:37] watch a professional pool match or [103:38] something like that. It's just wind down [103:40] time, but it doesn't feel like I'm [103:42] wasting time. Whereas if I'm looking at [103:44] Instagram or Twitter or whatever, it's [103:47] it feels like I'm doing something I [103:49] shouldn't be doing. That's not [103:50] beneficial. [103:51] >> Oh, 100%. That's to me as I'm building [103:54] up my platform and whatnot. I understand [103:56] it as a business and so I understand [103:58] there's some necessity for me to be into [104:00] it producing content, not necessarily [104:02] taking in content. Uh but yeah, 100% [104:05] it's it's something that has uh affected [104:09] our culture in a large way. It's all the [104:12] the [104:15] uh what's it called? Like the short term [104:17] like media, you know, where you're [104:18] clicking through it, it's just [104:19] >> it's killing our attention spans. It's [104:21] it's just [104:24] uh like you know your dopamine is is [104:27] firing at all times going crazy. [104:30] >> Problems you're a focus. [104:31] >> Yeah. You're getting this like [104:33] >> that's where that's where I love the [104:35] YouTube but I almost have to recognize [104:37] that just because I'm watching a spear [104:39] fishing video doesn't mean I'm getting [104:40] in the water and going and spear [104:41] fishing. Cuz sometimes I feel like I get [104:43] my fix a little bit by doing that. But [104:46] then I have to remind myself it's like [104:48] no life is lived in in your actions and [104:51] and and your experiences. So sitting and [104:53] watching the the TV screen, somebody [104:55] else experienced that, you know, you you [104:57] get the inside scoop. You get to kind of [104:58] be there under the water, watch what's [105:00] going on, but yeah, you're not actually [105:02] living it. So I like it. I love I love [105:04] to to learn from that social media. [105:07] Yeah, it's it sucks. It's just zapping [105:09] everybody. And uh [105:10] >> it's certainly not a part of the warrior [105:12] lifestyle as you were talking about as [105:14] samurai [105:15] >> because then like you want to think [105:16] about like your your meditative aspects [105:19] of like how often are you delving deep [105:21] into your own brain and just figuring [105:23] out things about yourself and asking [105:24] those questions and pushing beyond and [105:26] when you got a phone screen stealing all [105:28] your attention how are you ever doing [105:30] that [105:30] >> right? Yeah. Absolutely. You're not [105:34] you're not you know if you're if you're [105:36] spending so much time doing that. You're [105:37] a spear fisher guy huh? You really like [105:39] spear fishing? [105:40] >> I like to spearfish. I uh it's been some [105:43] time since I've been back in the water. [105:44] I had a buddy that we used to go all the [105:45] time and then he moved up to Washington [105:48] and uh I don't know. I [105:49] >> Where were you guys spear fishing? [105:51] >> Uh we go local like uh there's a [105:54] chronodmar beach and then there's a [105:55] smaller kind of hidden beach that you [105:57] walk down and it's got plenty of [105:59] structure and all sorts of fish out [106:01] there. Uh Laguna's got the kelp forest. [106:04] So, I just been going shore diving and [106:07] uh going over there grabbing lobster [106:09] when it's lobster season, grabbing down [106:11] to the honey holes and just grabbing [106:12] them with our hands. So, just it's all [106:15] the shore stuff right now. I haven't [106:16] been off a boat. [106:18] >> It's uh for my friends that have been [106:20] hunting that they say they love it [106:22] because they say it's like hunting [106:23] underwater, [106:24] >> right? [106:24] >> It's not really like fishing. It doesn't [106:26] You call it spear, but it feels like [106:28] you're hunting. [106:29] >> It's it's [106:31] Yeah, it's you're in the action, you [106:32] know? You get to pick and choose which [106:34] fish you're going to take, which one to [106:36] let to let go. And uh yeah, you're also [106:39] I like it because I like the primitive [106:41] aspects. Like we talked about like a [106:44] little bit of bow hunting before. I I'm [106:46] really enthralled with the bow hunting [106:47] stuff over the rifle hunt cuz dude, you [106:49] can sit at like three, four, sometimes [106:51] guys are shooting them out like a 500 [106:52] yards with this big old rifle and you're [106:55] just smacking something. It's like that [106:56] thing didn't even like ever know you [106:58] were there, you know? you're just like [107:00] propped up and there's a place for it, I [107:02] suppose. But having a bow and have to [107:04] get up 30ish yards, give or take, and [107:07] having to make sure they're not catching [107:08] your scent and having to to perform the [107:11] stock. I like the primitive stuff. I [107:13] like a I like something that involves a [107:14] skill set instead of just like a [107:16] technological uh prowess. [107:19] >> No, I agree with you. Obviously, I I'm a [107:21] big bow hunter. I don't think there's [107:23] anything wrong with rifle hunting and [107:24] it's definitely the best way to acquire [107:26] meat. If you're just going on a meat [107:28] hunt and you just want to get your meat [107:30] for the next few months, a rifle is the [107:32] way to go. But if you want a real [107:35] challenge, there's something that's way [107:37] more special about a bow hunt. It's more [107:40] difficult. It requires more practice. [107:42] Requires more of you. Like uh I went on [107:45] a pig hunt um about a year or so ago [107:48] with a friend of mine in California [107:50] where we had uh had a successful elk [107:52] hunt and then we went pig hunting and I [107:54] hadn't shot a rifle in two years, a year [107:58] and a half, two years, like not one shot [108:00] with a rifle. [108:02] >> Aced this pig at like 90 yards like it [108:04] was nothing. Boom. Dropped him in his [108:05] tracks. Like that was so easy [108:08] >> in comparisons [108:11] on them. Don't flinch. Squeeze the [108:13] trigger slowly. Make sure you're in a [108:15] good position. [108:16] >> Yeah. [108:16] >> And know how to shoot a rifle. And once [108:18] you know how to shoot a rifle, you kind [108:19] I mean, I'm not taking thousand yard [108:21] shots, but you know how to shoot a [108:23] rifle. It's pretty easy. Compared. If I [108:25] was bow hunting, I wouldn't even imagine [108:27] if I hadn't shot a bow in a year and a [108:29] half of even thinking about shooting [108:30] something with a bow, [108:31] >> right? [108:32] >> Not a chance in hell. I wouldn't even [108:34] think about it for like months. I would [108:36] say, I need to practice. I need to hit [108:38] targets all the time. I need to make [108:39] sure my shot is act. I knew get my [108:41] technique down. I'd want to film myself, [108:43] make sure I'm not doing anything stupid [108:45] like, let me look at my form. Why Why is [108:47] my elbow to the right? It should be [108:49] above. I would I would never imagine. [108:52] Rifle's way easier. But the feeling of [108:54] taking an animal down with a bow is a [108:57] completely different feeling. It's so [108:58] much harder to do. It's so much more [109:00] exciting. And if you fail, it doesn't, [109:03] you know, I many a hunt where you seven [109:05] days nothing happens. Okay, that's just [109:08] part of the thing, right? But at least, [109:10] you know, we're out here getting after [109:12] it and trying and you succeed or you [109:15] fail, but at least you're in nature and [109:19] the experience of it is still really [109:21] fun. Even if you're totally [109:22] unsuccessful. [109:23] >> Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, that's why [109:25] with the spear fishing stuff like these [109:26] free divers that can hold their breath [109:28] up to four or five minutes, you know, [109:30] and they're diving 40, 50, 60, 70 feet. [109:33] some of these guys out there in the [109:34] middle of the blue water and they're [109:36] going down to shipwrecks or whatever [109:38] structure is down there and they're [109:40] shooting these big old fish. It's like [109:41] yeah, there's like there has to be a [109:44] skill set to that. It's something you [109:46] had to work for to achieve, you know? [109:47] Oh, yeah. [109:47] >> It's something you had to to build up [109:49] to. So, yeah, I I love all that stuff. I [109:52] haven't been like bow hunting. I haven't [109:54] even been rifle hunting. It's something [109:55] that I really want to get into. I like [109:57] all that outdoor stuff. I'm [109:59] >> We can help you. We can help you get [110:00] into that. Yeah, definitely. I'll [110:02] connect you with some people. [110:03] >> No, I I love all that, you know. I like [110:04] I took a backpack. I just did uh Mount [110:07] Whitney last year in August and uh I [110:10] just love being out there in nature. So, [110:12] you know, being able to engage in it [110:14] that way, too, is like you said, the [110:16] excitement, the the buildup, the work [110:18] you have to put into it, the knowledge [110:20] you have to acquire, the people you have [110:21] to bump into. Um [110:23] >> the meals are a lot different, too. When [110:25] you eat a meal that you prepared [110:27] yourself that you went and hunted, it's [110:29] just a completely different feeling. [110:30] >> Oh, for sure. And you're living in [110:32] California now and California has a [110:34] giant pig population. [110:36] >> There's a lot of pig hunting to be had [110:37] in California pretty much all year [110:39] round. Yeah. [110:40] >> Yeah. Because they're invasive species. [110:41] Like that's one that I I'll get in the [110:45] helicopter with the rifle and just take [110:47] those guys out cuz I know they're just [110:49] destroying animal like you know like [110:51] habitat and eating all the food and and [110:53] destroying the geography of most places [110:55] they are. So [110:56] >> millions of them here in Texas. [110:58] Literally millions. [110:59] >> Yeah. And they they breed like no other, [111:01] too. You know, they just multiply. [111:02] >> Three times a year, they have litter [111:03] sometimes. Wow. [111:04] >> At least twice a year. [111:05] >> Um I have uh some friends of mine and I [111:08] we have a hunting lease out here and as [111:11] you're walking through like the woods, [111:14] you hear them. They sound like demons. [111:16] >> Yeah. [111:19] >> You hear them like fighting with each [111:20] other in the bushes and [ __ ] You're [111:21] like, "What the [ __ ] am I getting into?" [111:23] They sound like monsters, man. And [111:25] they're [111:26] >> everywhere. [111:27] >> Yeah. Like you go to the every one of [111:29] these ranches out here is infested with [111:31] pigs. [111:32] >> Yeah. They're just destroying. [111:33] >> They have to hunt them. They bring in [111:34] people to hunt them. A friend of mine [111:35] has a huge ranch in uh uh out near Fort [111:39] Worth [111:40] >> and he brought in a bunch of Navy Seals [111:42] to kill pigs and they set it up like an [111:45] operation. They literally decided to use [111:46] it for training. Yeah. [111:47] >> And so they, you know, and you can blow [111:50] them up with like thermite. You can do [111:52] all kinds of Not thermite. What's that [111:53] [ __ ] that they use? [111:55] >> Tannerite. [111:55] >> Tannerite. That's it. Thank you. I've [111:57] seen that video. [111:58] >> Yeah. Oh, it's crazy. [111:59] >> Just fly flying through the air. [112:01] >> It's ridiculous. Yeah. But they you can [112:03] basically do whatever you want to them [112:04] because they they're just encouraging [112:07] people. They're saying, "Listen, [112:09] >> other than like declaring war on the [112:13] pigs and bringing in the military and [112:14] literally going through every state and [112:16] trying to kill them." Like, we've got an [112:17] economic war where these pigs are [112:19] destroying people's crops, right? I [112:21] mean, literally billions of dollars [112:23] worth of damage every year they're doing [112:25] to these farms. Yeah. [112:27] >> And they just keep there's more of them [112:28] every year. More of them every year. [112:30] They're not going to stop [ __ ] just [112:32] going to keep reproducing. [112:34] >> Just going to keep reproducing. And [112:36] it's, you know, really been a few [112:38] hundred years since they been introduced [112:40] to this country. And [112:41] >> boy, they're in every state now. [112:43] >> Yeah. I mean, and what are you going to [112:45] do? Just let them continue to roam? [112:47] >> They're in every state. They like New [112:49] York State and places like that. They [112:50] have wild pigs. How many states have a [112:52] wild pig population? Let's put that into [112:55] perplexity and see what they say. Our AI [112:58] sponsor, I I'm going to guess. Let me [113:00] say 30. I say 30 states have a wild pig [113:05] population. That's my guess. 30 out of [113:07] 50. [113:07] >> Close. [113:08] >> Am I close? [113:09] >> Yep. [113:10] >> How many? [113:12] >> 35. [113:13] Uh figure refers to states with [113:15] documented feral swine presence. I like [113:17] that term. Feral swine presence. does [113:20] not necessarily mean that every one of [113:21] these states has a large self- [113:23] sustaining population. [113:25] 35 states, [113:28] the population established numbers could [113:30] be lower. Some states have only have [113:31] occasional sightings, small localized [113:33] groups. Well, it really depends on where [113:36] they have farms. States with farms have [113:38] the real problem in the southwest, [113:40] especially Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, [113:42] Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, [113:44] Alabama, and South Carolina. [113:47] Yeah. wild. [113:50] It's It's such a crazy animal, too, [113:52] because they're, you know, they're so [113:55] smart. They're so smart and they're very [113:58] durable, [113:59] >> right? Yeah. Some of them get gigantic, [114:00] like thousand pounds, right? I mean, [114:02] you've seen [114:03] >> Not really. See, I used to think that, [114:05] too. Those are not really the wild pigs. [114:08] What those are is domestic pigs that got [114:10] loose. [114:11] >> And you know the thing about domestic [114:12] pigs, when they get loose, they kind of [114:14] become wild. their their nose lengthens, [114:16] their their fur gets like thicker and [114:20] >> bushier and their their talons or their [114:23] their rather tusks rather actually grow [114:25] >> which is nuts. Like they actually [114:27] metamorphosize. [114:28] >> That's I mean that's what like a a [114:29] fereral pig is, right? [114:31] >> Was a domesticated animal that became [114:33] wild. [114:33] >> The opposite. It was a wild animal that [114:36] they took and domesticated, but then [114:37] when you let them loose in the wild, [114:39] then they become wild again. Oh, [114:40] >> okay. [114:40] >> That's was weird. It's like they [114:42] originally were wild animals and [114:44] >> it's such a like crazy transformation, [114:46] you know, all covered in hair and big [114:47] tusks and stuff and then [114:49] >> like the pigs you see in the farm like [114:52] >> same animal. [114:52] >> Yeah. [114:53] >> What's nuts is it happens quick. [114:55] >> Apparently this the metamorphosis starts [114:57] to take place. Look this up. See how [114:59] long it takes before pigs start [115:01] transforming. I think it's like six [115:02] weeks or something crazy like it starts [115:04] to begin. Yeah. [115:05] >> Where six weeks where they have to feed [115:07] themselves where they have to forge for [115:09] themselves. They're like, "All right, I [115:10] guess I'm wild." And then they just [115:13] >> start the transformation. Yeah. [115:14] >> It's It's a very weird animal. I don't [115:17] know of any other animal that we Well, [115:19] we'll ask perplexity that I don't know [115:21] if there's any other animal that does [115:22] that. Domestic become feral in behavior [115:25] within weeks to months of escaping, [115:27] becoming wary of people, nocturnal, [115:29] mobile, and able to forge and survive [115:31] without care. But it does not literally [115:32] turn into a wild boar in one lifetime. [115:35] pop, but it does have physical um [115:38] changes. [115:39] What is the physical change? [115:43] Uh [115:46] radically different skull is overstated. [115:49] Adult pigs can become tougher, leaner, [115:50] hairier, and more elusive as conditions [115:53] change, but major inherited traits [115:55] become more common when the animals [115:56] survive and breed pass on uh [115:59] advantageous variance over successive [116:01] litters. Evidence on fereralization [116:04] emphasizes that these changes are shaped [116:06] by both environments and multigeneration [116:09] gener generational selection, not an [116:11] instant biological reversal. Not [116:13] instant, but they do physically change. [116:17] I don't think this is totally accurate, [116:18] but if you see the biggest pig that they [116:20] ever shot that was a wild pig, I think [116:22] it's called Hogzilla. Have you ever seen [116:24] that picture? [116:24] >> I think so. Yeah. [116:25] >> It looks like a domestic pig. M. [116:27] >> It looks like someone was feeding that [116:30] thing a lot and then it got out and [116:32] became a wild pig. [116:33] >> Right. [116:33] >> I don't know how big that was. [116:35] >> This is a photo of it, but the It's one [116:37] of those perspective shots where the [116:38] guy's like behind it. [116:39] >> Stand all far behind it. [116:40] >> Yeah. [116:41] >> Yeah. Make it look 10 times larger. [116:43] >> Yeah. It But it looks cra See, there's [116:45] one of them where one of them is hanging [116:47] from a tractor. [116:48] >> Uhhuh. [116:49] >> And I don't give a [ __ ] how close you [116:52] are to that thing. That thing's giant. [116:53] >> Yeah. [116:53] >> Like how big is Hogzilla? That's like [116:56] some of the gators or the crocodiles, I [116:59] mean, that they're finding in like [117:00] Africa and stuff. [117:02] >> They have the pictures sit next to those [117:03] things and they're like [117:05] >> 20 plus feet long, you know, like [117:07] ridiculous. [117:07] >> Yeah, crocodiles get big. I think the [117:09] biggest ones they've gotten are like [117:11] close to 20. [117:12] >> See, that's the one thing about spear [117:13] fishing is [117:14] >> you there, you know, the sharks are [117:16] there, you know. Um, [117:18] >> I've have not seen I've seen leopard [117:21] sharks, but that's nothing crazy. [117:23] >> You never saw a great white? [117:24] >> I've never seen a great white. If you [117:25] do, would that be the last time you go [117:27] spear fishing? [117:28] >> I want to say no, but I don't know. I'll [117:30] have to get there first. [117:31] >> Hit one on the nose. [117:32] >> Yeah. If it's like getting crazy, it's [117:34] probably like, all right, I'm I'm cool [117:36] on that. But they they have uh they have [117:39] all sorts of different things like Ocean [117:41] Guardian. [117:42] >> Okay. That guy's definitely behind that [117:44] thing. But that [ __ ] looks like he's [117:46] got tusks. [117:47] >> Look at that one to the left. The giant [117:48] 36 stone. [117:50] >> Yeah. [117:50] >> Oh, you that one too. [117:51] >> They said this one was maybe,200 lb. It [117:54] was originally thought of to be a hoax. [117:56] There's a documentary about it. This is [117:58] back in 2004 and five, though. [118:01] >> What's that one on the upper left? [118:04] That dude's resting his arm. Is that a [118:06] real picture? [118:07] >> That's like a little kid, though. [118:08] >> The upper But the upper left. The kid. [118:10] >> That's way too close for that guy. [118:12] >> Yeah, that one's closer than the guy. [118:13] The guy's behind it. But that kid. [118:15] >> Well, that looks like Oh, he's not [118:17] resting his arms on it. He's resting his [118:18] arms. Yeah, it is the same. That's a fat [118:20] [ __ ] though. Look at the size of that [118:22] thing. That looks more like a domestic [118:25] pig though. Like that one right there. [118:27] That's a good example. Go back up a [118:29] little so I could make it smaller. Yeah. [118:32] Look at his snout. Ah, it's actually [118:33] kind of long. [118:34] >> They're also still behind it, too. [118:36] >> Yeah. [118:37] >> Hard to tell how far, but [118:38] >> why do people do that? [118:40] >> Make it look cool, man. [118:42] >> I know. But it's big. [118:44] I like how that one says 36 stone. [118:48] That must be an English. Yeah, it's the [118:51] mirror. [118:52] That's crazy. That's a big pig, but it's [118:54] not like What is the biggest reported [118:57] wild pig that was shot in Texas? Let's [119:00] ask that. I think that's a porno. Turn [119:02] that off. [119:03] >> It's on IMDb. [119:06] >> The other white meat. [119:07] >> Biggest one shot in Texas. [119:08] >> Yes. What is the biggest wild hog that [119:10] was shot in Texas? Let's guess. [119:16] I'm going guess like 500 pounds. [119:21] That's my guess. [119:26] That's just a guess though. [119:29] No official. Largest ever shot. Most [119:31] credible. 790 lb boore. Holy [ __ ] [119:36] Captured not shot. Near Deion in [119:39] Comanche County, [119:42] January 2015. Weighed on certified mill [119:44] scales. That's [ __ ] crazy big. 790 is [119:48] nuts. [119:49] That's so big. [119:53] You imagine millions of 790 lb wild pigs [119:57] running through this country. [119:58] >> Yeah, [119:59] >> that would uh not be [120:01] >> not ideal. [120:02] >> Yeah. [120:02] >> Um so never went never been hunting. [120:05] >> I've [120:07] shot some birds with a pellet gun or [120:09] something. That's about it. [120:10] >> But you want to? [120:11] >> I would love to. Yeah. [120:12] >> What what would you want to go hunting [120:13] for? Do you have a thing in your mind [120:15] that you think would be [120:16] >> um I think something like a like a deer [120:18] is probably like a good starting [120:19] starting point. [120:20] >> Do you know how to shoot a bow [120:22] >> or would you want to use a rifle? [120:23] >> I haven't shot compound too often. I [120:25] shoot recurve. Um it's definitely not [120:28] something I'm uh super practiced with, [120:31] but I'm pretty good with it. I went to [120:32] archery competition pretty recently and [120:34] did pretty good with it. So, [120:34] >> did you really with a compound bow? [120:36] >> With the recurve bow. [120:37] >> A recurve bow. Um don't hunt with that. [120:39] >> Yeah. [120:40] >> It's too frisky. You're not going to [120:42] >> That would be You got to get real good. [120:44] >> You'd have to. Yeah. A lot of practice, [120:46] >> a lot of hunts, and a lot of experience. [120:48] >> How far are you from San Diego? [120:51] >> Uh, hour, two hours if there's traffic. [120:53] >> There's a really good archery shop in [120:55] San Diego. I think it's Performance [120:57] Archery. Is that the name of the place? [120:59] Um, but it's one of the best shops in [121:01] the country. Okay. [121:02] >> Yeah. If you want to get a compound bow [121:04] and want to get someone to um really uh [121:08] make sure that it's sized correctly, [121:09] that the draw length is correct and [121:11] everything like that. Yeah. Performance [121:13] archery. [121:17] >> Why are you showing me [121:19] >> on the map where it is? [121:20] >> Yeah, just go back to the [121:21] >> Doesn't show you anything there. [121:23] >> Yeah, it's in I've been there before [121:24] with uh John Dudley. It's a great place. [121:26] Like really elite. 4.6 stars on Google. [121:30] Yeah, [121:30] >> it's it's you want to go to a really [121:33] good place, so they make sure they set [121:34] you up correct. Like that's a big thing [121:36] with bows. It's like um you know, I [121:39] couldn't shoot Jon Jones bow. You know, [121:41] he's really tall. I'm short. It the [121:43] length would be different. My where my [121:46] peep sight would be different. It has to [121:48] all be measured out to your size. And [121:51] everyone's different. So, it's [121:52] >> Yeah, [121:53] >> you'd have to really make sure that your [121:55] bow is set up for you correctly. And [121:57] it's just like martial arts in that you [121:59] want to learn correctly first. You don't [122:01] want to unlearn it and try to learn [122:03] something the right way because you're [122:04] always going to fall back on the way you [122:05] got comfortable with doing it the first [122:07] time. [122:07] >> Right. [122:08] >> So, that's a good thing to do. [122:10] >> Nice. [122:11] >> Set you up. [122:11] >> I've uh I shot a compound bow here or [122:14] there, but I like all that stuff. I'm [122:16] really, like I said, I'm I'm uh big into [122:20] continuing to learn lots of different [122:22] skills, especially in that realm. And uh [122:25] yeah, I'm I'm all about it. [122:27] >> Do you think do you think of that as a [122:29] way to like just advance your your [122:32] mental function in just in all of life [122:35] that will help your fighting? Like the [122:37] more different things you learn, the [122:39] more different things you do that you [122:40] can like take things from that and apply [122:42] it to fighting? [122:44] >> Um [122:45] >> or do you just do it because you enjoy [122:47] it? [122:48] >> I have to say I I do it because I enjoy [122:50] it. Um, it's probably not directly [122:53] related to fighting, but more of the um, [122:57] self-reliance and the self-perseverance. [122:59] Like to me, like I'm like at home making [123:02] my own like Kaidex holsters and my [123:04] leather holsters and doing all that kind [123:05] of stuff is a good start. My I have this [123:08] old truck that I want to tear apart and [123:10] and learn how to work on it from the [123:11] ground up. Um, being able to hunt and [123:14] provide like just I'm always thinking [123:17] like when [ __ ] hits the fan, I better be [123:19] ready for it, you know? And so being a [123:21] martial artist, being a warrior [123:23] encompasses a lot of aspects. You know, [123:24] hand to hand combat is only one of those [123:26] things. There's a lot of different [123:27] aspects to uh self self-perseverance. So [123:31] I think about it a little bit that way. [123:33] Um I do it because it's fun and it's [123:36] it's just exciting to learn a new skill [123:39] and then have a an end product, [123:41] something that you made yourself. [123:43] >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's it's always [123:45] a good idea to be self-reliant. And also [123:47] like if you have a garden, that's [123:49] another great thing. like have a place [123:51] where you can grow your own food. [123:52] >> Yeah. [123:52] >> So you're not getting any pesticides or [123:54] herbicides or [ __ ] on your food. [123:56] >> 100%. I mean the the end goal for me is [123:59] to have probably would not be the only [124:02] property cuz my wife just loves Southern [124:04] California so much. But, uh, Wyoming, [124:07] Montana, Idaho, go get a couple acres up [124:09] there, move the family, maybe some close [124:12] friends, and just have have our own [124:14] little self-reliant thing up there with [124:16] some some crop, some wildlife, the [124:19] ability to hunt up there on our land. A [124:22] lot of the stuff I'm seeing up there, [124:23] they have stocked lakes and the rivers [124:25] have fish as well. So, something like [124:27] that is [124:28] >> You're really thinking about a possible [124:30] catastrophe. [124:32] >> It's always on my mind. No, I just I [124:34] want to get away from the hustle and [124:36] bustle of everything. Just be out there [124:38] in nature is really kind of the the [124:40] hopes for that. And [124:41] >> are you stuck in California because of [124:43] your wife and what you do outside of MMA [124:46] or have you ever thought about moving to [124:48] a different place to train? [124:50] >> Uh well, training is kind of the the [124:52] main thing that keeps me there honestly. [124:55] >> My my team is there, all my coaches are [124:57] there. Of course, I I can bounce around. [124:59] And [124:59] >> what gym are you out of now? [125:01] >> I'm all over the place. Yes, I trained [125:02] at the Den Training Center uh in [125:04] Yolinda. I trained at CSW Fullerton with [125:06] Eric Pollson and then uh [125:08] >> I love Eric. [125:09] >> Yeah, he's [125:09] >> Didn't your dad train with Eric? [125:12] >> He did. That's how I got over there in [125:13] the first place cuz Ben was Ben was [125:15] running the fight practice at CSW then. [125:18] >> Bro, Eric's an OG. [125:20] >> He's he's an OG, dude. [125:22] >> He's a He's such a cool guy. [125:24] >> Eric Pollson was I remember back in the [125:26] day when he had like a crazy ponytail [125:29] in the days where you could grab hair. [125:31] >> Yeah. Well, that's why that's why he cut [125:33] it off. I think it was Sean Sherik who [125:35] >> he was fighting him bare knuckle and [125:37] homie kept grabbing his ponytail and and [125:39] holding him there and that's the only [125:41] reason why. And I think right after that [125:43] fight, he went and chopped it off and [125:45] had short hair from that point. [125:46] >> I know it's nice to be good-looking with [125:48] long flowy locks, but that [ __ ] is uh [125:51] especially back in those days when you [125:52] when you could grab hair. You remember [125:54] Hoist Gracie versus KMO? Well, hoist had [125:57] a [ __ ] handful of hair when he was on [125:59] top and just blast them, [126:01] >> you know? [126:02] >> That's I mean to me, cut the hair, man. [126:04] Cut it or braid it. [126:05] >> Especially if it's the old UFC days [126:07] where you could actually grab hair. [126:09] >> Grab it. Yeah. [126:10] >> Yeah. You know, people complain all the [126:12] time about guys grabbing their shorts. [126:14] And it does happen all the time. Grab [126:16] guys grab shorts. I'm always like, "Why [126:19] are you wearing shorts?" [126:20] >> Right. [126:20] >> I don't know if you wear shorts. Do you [126:22] wear spandex? You wear shorts? [126:23] >> Spandex? Yeah. [126:24] >> Yeah. Why are you wearing shorts? Why [126:26] are you wearing anything someone can [126:27] grab? [126:27] >> And especially like everybody likes the [126:29] loose like like the high slate cut [126:31] shorts nowadays. So I mean more to grab [126:33] onto. Yeah. [126:34] >> Yeah. I just don't understand it. Here [126:35] it is. [126:36] >> Crazy head butts and [ __ ] [126:38] >> Yeah. Oh yeah, man. This is bare knuckle [126:40] headbutts. [126:41] >> Yeah. And then you could kick him in the [126:42] nuts and all that stuff back then, [126:44] >> bro. Wrestlers were a [ __ ] nightmare [126:47] when you could headbutt. If you go go [126:50] back and remember like the Mark Coleman [126:52] days, he would get in your guard and [126:54] headbutt the [ __ ] out of you, [126:56] >> right? [126:56] >> Yeah. And what how are you getting off [126:58] of the off your back against a high [126:59] level wrestler like that? [127:00] >> I know. [127:01] >> Grabbing his hair like it's a wrist [127:03] lock. [127:03] >> I know. It's crazy. [127:05] >> He had his hair and then uh [127:07] >> I don't know if Eric escapes or if the [127:08] time goes out, but Eric ends up [127:10] finishing him. [127:10] >> God, he got cut here. [127:12] >> What is this? A floor time count. You [127:14] had to get up if you're on the ground [127:15] for too long. [127:16] >> Is that what it is? [127:18] WCC. That's crazy. [127:21] >> I wonder like how much time Oh, it's [127:23] counting down. [127:24] >> I want to see what happens if it gets up [127:25] here. It's about to [127:26] >> Right. Do they stand him up? [127:29] >> Yeah. [127:29] >> Wow. Stand up. You get a minute on the [127:31] ground. [127:32] >> Crazy. [127:34] >> Wow. [127:34] >> Yeah. But Eric Paulson is such a legend [127:35] of the game. [127:36] >> Oh, yeah. He is, [127:37] >> dude. His his There's not a day that I [127:39] go in there and learn submission flows [127:41] from him that I'm not just like blown [127:42] away. [127:43] >> That's crazy. I forgot they did that. [127:47] >> Interesting. Well, I think back then in [127:49] the early days of fighting, there was a [127:51] lot of promoters that were trying a [127:52] bunch of different tactics to try to [127:54] make the fights more interesting, [127:55] >> right? That would be the only reason. [127:56] Like they don't want you to sit and lay [127:58] there anymore and get up and start [127:59] throwing face again. [128:00] >> I hate standups. I hate them. I hate [128:02] them with all my heart. I don't think if [128:04] in a fiveminut round you should ever be [128:08] stood up. [128:09] >> There's a there's a lot that can go on [128:11] there. I mean, especially if you're [128:12] holding position, you're regaining like [128:14] your your breath a little bit, you're [128:16] setting up a pass or something, you [128:17] know, it doesn't always look apparent to [128:18] the crowd or to the ref. So, [128:20] >> even if you could hold him down, like, [128:22] who cares? You could hold a guy up [128:24] against the cage, right? Okay. And all [128:26] you have to do is like land a few knees [128:28] and a few punches occasionally and [128:29] they'll let you stay in that position. [128:30] >> I feel like they're breaking that up [128:31] even more and more. [128:32] >> I don't think you should break up [128:33] anything. I think it should be reserved [128:35] for fouls. I think if someone commits a [128:38] foul, then you stand them up and then [128:39] you assess whether or not someone gets a [128:41] point taken away or whether or not that [128:43] person needs time. But if if it's a [128:45] place where you don't want to be and the [128:47] guy's putting you in a place where you [128:49] don't want to be, he's winning that [128:50] exchange, right? [128:51] >> If a guy can hold you down and you can't [128:53] get up, if you don't like it and you [128:54] can't get up, then he's winning, [128:56] >> right? Yeah. [128:57] >> We lose as an audience, the audience [128:59] loses. [128:59] >> 10 minute limit for ground time. [129:02] >> What fight was this? This is WCC. [129:04] >> What was it called? the [129:06] >> World Combat Championships. Is that the [129:09] one where Henzo Yes. Henzo Gracie fought [129:12] Ben Spikers? Do you remember that one? [129:15] >> Oh, dude. This is one of the reasons why [129:17] elbows to the back of the head are [129:19] illegal on his head. He played [129:21] >> cuz Henzo, this guy was calling Henzo. [129:25] There's you, dog. Look at that. [129:27] >> Look at that guy. Um, Henzo uh was uh in [129:30] his hotel room and this guy was calling [129:32] him every [ __ ] 10 minutes like to try [129:36] to wake him up and Henzo had to take the [129:38] phone and shove it in a drawer like he [129:40] was [ __ ] with him constantly and [129:42] Henzo got his back and elbowed the [129:46] [ __ ] [ __ ] out of him from rear mount. [129:52] >> So this isn't the same fight. [129:53] >> I think it is. Yeah, right here. [129:55] >> Oh, here it is. This is That's it. So [129:57] this Henzo gets his back and here it is. [129:59] Look at these elbows, dude. [130:02] >> Just ferocious elbows. [130:07] >> So this dude was a judo champion. [130:09] >> I was going to say, why would you wear a [130:11] ghee against [130:12] >> against a guy like Henzo? And Henzo [130:13] doesn't have a ghee on. And then Henzo [130:15] steps off and then gets on his neck. [130:17] >> Oh [ __ ] [130:18] >> Yeah. [130:19] >> Ow. That was crossing the line. Oh. [130:21] After he just elbowed the [ __ ] out of [130:23] him. [130:23] >> See that? You know what's funny is like [130:24] the 12 to six rule. Everybody uh [130:27] fantasizes about like how how much [130:30] better that is. And sure, you got some [130:32] cutting, but your your force that you [130:34] can deliver in my perspective straight [130:36] down with an elbow like that is so much [130:38] more tremendous than you doing this. [130:40] >> Yes. This was only, you know, why it was [130:43] outlawed, right? [130:44] >> Why? [130:45] >> Big John McCarthy has got a great story [130:47] about this. When the ESPN people or the [130:50] athletic commission people rather were [130:52] first uh deciding whether or not they [130:54] were going to sanction MMA, they had [130:56] seen these ESPN karate breaking [130:59] demonstrations at like 2:00 in the [131:01] morning WHEN THESE [ __ ] GUYS AND THEY [131:04] BREAK A BUNCH OF bricks and they're [131:05] like, "You have to outlaw that. That [131:07] should be illegal. People could die." [131:08] That's literally what they thought was [131:10] the most powerful strike was the 12 to6 [131:13] elbow. So you couldn't even do a 12 to [131:15] six elbow standing, which is crazy. You [131:19] couldn't tomahawk. So you couldn't come [131:20] down with a tomahawk 126. It had to be [131:23] at a slight angle. It had to be some [131:26] kind of angle, which is the [ __ ] [131:27] dumbest thing ever. [131:28] >> Chop them in half. [131:29] >> This by far across like it's rotating [131:32] your shoulders to do it like a punch. [131:33] It's the most power. [131:34] >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you might get more [131:36] cutting. I mean, [131:37] >> it's available if a guy's doing this. [131:39] You know, if a guy's covering up like [131:41] that and you go straight down, it's a [131:42] good but to eliminate it as an option, [131:44] the only reason why was [131:46] >> missed this. So, the WCC had two [131:48] different brackets. Grapplers bracket, [131:50] striker bracket. Grapplers could be on [131:52] the ground for up to 10 minutes. [131:53] Strikers only had two minutes. [131:57] >> Submissions were illegal. [131:58] >> What? In a striker fight? [132:00] >> Yeah. So, it said and then the idea was [132:02] the winner of both brackets would fight [132:04] at the end. [132:05] >> Oh, that's so crazy. [132:06] >> Yeah. It only made it that one [132:07] tournament. That's so crazy. What year [132:10] was that? [132:10] >> Uh 94 [132:13] or five 95 maybe. [132:14] >> Okay, so this is right after the UFC [132:17] burst onto the scene. That's UFC was 93. [132:20] >> It just says they were trying to be [132:21] different than the UFC with different [132:22] rules. [132:22] >> Yeah, [132:23] >> they're doing something like that again [132:24] where it's like striking only MMA where [132:28] I don't know if you go back to the [132:29] ground, they stand you back up or [132:30] something. [132:30] >> Where's this? [132:31] >> I don't know. I saw it on Instagram. [132:33] >> I mean, what is one FC's doing it the [132:35] right way where they just have striking [132:36] fights? Yeah, [132:37] >> they have MMA fights and striking [132:38] fights, [132:39] >> right? [132:39] >> Dude, I've been trying to talk Dana into [132:41] doing that for years, you know, because [132:43] I know they got into Zu for boxing, [132:44] which is great, [132:46] >> you know? I'm like, why not? Like, when [132:48] people boo when things go to the ground, [132:50] how about have striking fights? Just [132:52] have But in his mind, kickboxing in [132:55] America has a stink on it [132:57] >> from the PKA karate guy days, [133:00] >> you know, which just wasn't that good. [133:02] They weren't allowed to leg kick. It was [133:04] all above the waist, [133:05] >> right? And you know, there was great [133:07] fighters back then like Rick Rufus and a [133:09] few guys that were like really elite, [133:10] but for the most part, the skill level [133:13] wasn't that high and people never really [133:14] got into PKA karate. They never really [133:17] got into kick. It never really became [133:18] the kind of success that boxing was. And [133:20] so I think in his mind, that's how [133:22] people look at kickboxing, [133:23] >> right? [133:24] >> I think it's the most it has the most [133:28] possibility in terms of like a sport [133:30] that is not being taken advantage of. [133:32] like that has the most potential by far. [133:35] >> I mean, like you said, you look at the [133:36] one championship guys that are over [133:38] there kickboxing Muay Thai and they're [133:40] they're even doing hybrid fights for [133:42] that that DJ versus Rottweing [133:44] it up all crazy and [133:46] >> yeah, [133:46] >> I don't know. I mean, it's that's [133:48] getting pretty good traction over there. [133:49] So, [133:50] >> it is I I I heard, you know, they they [133:53] they have some difficulties and I hope [133:56] they do really well. The world needs [133:58] more organizations. The MMA world needs [134:00] a bunch of options, [134:01] >> right? And you know this PFL merger [134:03] where PFL has merged with um what is it? [134:07] >> MVP. [134:08] >> Yeah, Jake Paul's production company [134:10] MVP. Yeah, that's great. We need more of [134:13] that. Netflix is involved. Fantastic. [134:15] Need more. You need more more options, [134:18] more fights, and it's just going to make [134:21] more MMA fans, [134:22] >> right? [134:23] >> Just for me, when you see a guy like [134:24] that cat that I was telling you about, [134:25] Mega Med, who uh fought for PFL, like [134:29] more people need to know about these [134:30] guys. Like there's so many guys out [134:32] there that are [ __ ] killers, man. [134:34] >> No, that the talent pool is so deep. [134:36] Like outside of the UFC, it's extremely [134:38] deep. You got people out of coming out [134:41] of Russia, these Brazilians, like people [134:43] all over the world that [134:45] >> nobody's ever heard of just because they [134:46] haven't been on that big stage quite [134:47] yet. [134:48] >> So, I mean, exactly. [134:49] >> I think uh I think it would be really [134:51] cool that we did like champion versus [134:54] champion kind of fights. [134:55] >> It's never going to happen. [134:56] >> Yeah. [134:57] >> The UFC would never do that. Why would [134:58] What if their guys win? [ __ ] you. It's [135:00] No, [135:01] >> the the benefit of it for the UFC is [135:04] like it's so outweighed by the [135:06] negatives, [135:07] >> right? [135:07] >> Especially since they're number one. [135:09] >> Yeah. [135:09] >> And they're not number one like a little [135:10] bit, you know? [135:12] >> Like for the casual, MMA is UFC, [135:15] >> you know? It's like Q-tips. [135:17] >> It's not a cotton swab. It's a [ __ ] [135:18] Q-tip. [135:19] >> Yeah. From a business perspective, I [135:20] understand it. I think as a fighter, it [135:22] would be cool to challenge yourself once [135:24] you [135:24] >> once you get to that pinnacle if you [135:26] have title defenses and you're kind of [135:28] taking everybody out. It's like, hey, I [135:30] really want to be the best in the world. [135:31] Let me fight [135:32] >> all the top guys in the world. So, [135:35] >> it it may never happen, but [135:36] >> the only way it could happen if [135:38] something like MVP [135:41] um got to a level of prominence in the [135:44] public eye where they developed a roster [135:47] of champions that was equal to the UFC, [135:49] then it would make sense. Then no one's [135:51] losing. [135:51] >> Yeah. Yeah. Because then it brings in [135:53] all the crowds from everywhere. [135:54] everybody gets [135:55] >> and then you do a co-promotion for like [135:56] a gigantic super fight like you know the [136:00] UFC's version of Floyd Mayweather versus [136:02] Manny Pacquiao, right? [136:03] >> You know, you have something where these [136:05] guys are so huge it's just like let's [136:08] make this happen. Everyone's going to [136:09] get rich. Let's go. [136:11] >> Yeah. No, for sure. [136:12] >> It has to be something of that caliber. [136:13] like it has to be a Conor McGregor level [136:17] champion where that you know people are [136:20] coming from all over anywhere to sign on [136:22] to to buy the fight at home or to show [136:24] up in person and I think you'd have to [136:26] have two level two guys of that level to [136:29] bring some of that traction to it. [136:30] >> Do you think Connor fights again? [136:32] >> Um I don't know. It sounds like he he [136:35] sounds like he's going to. [136:37] >> I think he does. [136:38] >> I think he does the one more and then [136:40] he's done with it. Yeah. I hope you know [136:42] it just that's what like you say guys [136:44] stay in it too long it's like and some [136:47] of these guys that's all they know it's [136:48] the only thing they've ever found [136:50] success in or found the ability to to [136:52] put food on the table or provide for [136:54] their families and so like what else do [136:56] they know they they gave everything to [136:57] fighting [136:58] >> well with Connor it's not that [137:00] >> but that's not Connor he's [137:02] >> he went from such a high place to like [137:04] doing what he's doing now in the [137:05] fighting world and it's just like why [137:07] even step in and do that anymore [137:09] >> I think it just cuz He still can for a [137:12] little bit more time. I mean, he's 37, [137:15] 38 now. Realistically, he's got 2 years [137:19] left. Maybe, you know, if everything if [137:22] you really take care of yourself and we [137:23] both know he's [137:25] >> Yeah. [137:25] >> parted a little bit a little bit. [137:27] >> It's going to get back to that level of [137:28] training and like mindset to it though. [137:31] >> You know, it's very difficult to know [137:33] because he was capable of doing it at [137:35] one point in his life and it doesn't [137:37] mean that he can never do that again [137:39] just cuz he's rich. Right. [137:40] >> And I think you can underestimate a [137:41] man's character and say that he can't [137:44] ever reach those heights again. [137:47] >> A guy like Connor is a special guy. A [137:50] special it takes a special type of [137:51] person to put on a performance like he [137:53] did against Eddie Alvarez. [137:55] >> Like that was he was in the [ __ ] [137:57] Matrix, man. To be there live when he [138:00] was doing that. I was like, "Good lord." [138:02] >> That was special. [138:03] >> Yeah. He's pulling and Eddie Eddie's [138:05] like scanning his nose, blah blah, and [138:07] coming back [138:07] >> just countering instantaneous with [138:09] perfect precision. He was on fire. [138:12] >> If he can reach that height, as long as [138:14] his body holds up, but here's the the [138:16] problem is both of his ACL's been torn. [138:20] Both of his meniscus has been blown out. [138:22] You know, now with this the crazy one [138:24] with that crazy jumping roundhouse kick, [138:26] like who knows, man, right? Who knows [138:28] what he could still do? [138:29] >> There's I will never say never. It's not [138:31] that he couldn't do it, right? [138:33] >> It's just that will he do it? Will he [138:34] put that time and effort to to recollect [138:37] and to be of that zen of that bushidto [138:40] like he used to be? Because like the way [138:41] he used to talk and be philosophical and [138:44] stoic about training, the way he [138:45] explained it and delved into it, that's [138:48] what that's what drew people to Connor [138:49] before anything. The way he talked about [138:51] the warrior lifestyle and and he didn't [138:53] care about anything else and and he lost [138:55] his mind to it. Those are the things [138:57] that intrigued the people. this real [138:59] true warrior persona. [139:01] And [139:03] that that was the biggest question with [139:05] this last one. Everybody's like, "Oh, do [139:06] you think Connor is going to do it? Do [139:07] you think Connor?" And it was the same [139:09] answer. Do I think he can do it? For [139:12] sure. [139:12] >> But the problem with that is Connor's so [139:15] good at talking that he can convince you [139:17] that he's doing he's doing anything, you [139:19] know? [139:20] >> So, I'm like, I'm not there in his camp. [139:22] I'm not seeing what he's doing behind [139:23] the scenes. [139:24] >> I really can't I really can't make that [139:27] guess, honestly. Yeah. And much like [139:29] you, I want to believe. You know, you [139:31] hear him talk, you're like, I want to [139:33] believe. I want to see him pull it off. [139:34] >> Of course. [139:35] >> Yeah. We all did. You know, it's a he [139:38] was a very important part of fighting. [139:39] He was a really um a special person that [139:43] came along and brought a lot of [139:45] attention to the sport that would not it [139:48] wouldn't have been the same without him. [139:50] that whole era of time from 10 years ago [139:53] or whatever it was when he really burst [139:55] more than that but I think he won his [139:57] what year would he win his first title? [139:59] When was it against Jose Aldo? What year [140:01] was that? [140:06] >> At the end of 2015. It was December [140:08] 2015. [140:08] >> Yeah. So 11 years ago really when he [140:11] became Connor, you know that one punch [140:13] knockout of Jose Alder was really when [140:15] he became that guy. I mean, he was huge [140:18] before that, but that was the one. And [140:21] then, of course, the Eddie Alvarez fight [140:23] was another one. I mean, it's 10 years, [140:25] man. That's a long time, [140:27] >> right? [140:28] >> A lot of booze, a lot of partying, a lot [140:31] of [ __ ] off, you know. [140:33] >> Yeah. A lot of luxury, you know, not [140:35] waking up. That's [140:36] >> Mhm. [140:36] >> It's hard to hard to go running. [140:38] >> Also, the difference, as you said [140:39] before, between 45 and, you know, and [140:42] going all the way up. Now, he wants to [140:43] fight at 70, you know. [140:45] >> Yeah. And he's also That's a [140:47] weight class of killers right there. He [140:49] was talking about Carlos Proes and these [140:51] and this that I'm like [140:52] >> Morales, bro. [140:53] >> Yeah. Yeah. Morales. [140:55] >> That guy's giant. [140:56] >> Those guys are all huge. [140:57] >> Huge. [140:57] >> Even Ian Gary, you saw him sparring [140:59] Connor and [141:00] >> Mhm. [141:00] >> He's far bigger than Connor is. Conor is [141:02] not [141:03] >> Connor is not that ginormous of a guy [141:05] from my understanding. He gets like [141:07] pretty like thick, but [141:09] >> he's not really like that that big of an [141:11] individual. Now 55 is really probably as [141:13] heavy as he should be fighting at [141:15] realistically when you think about those [141:17] guys. [141:17] >> Yeah. But then is he going to cut the [141:18] weight to do that? Like [141:19] >> it's hard. [141:20] >> Is he going to do all that stuff? [141:21] >> Well, if he doesn't want to do that, he [141:22] really probably shouldn't be fighting. [141:24] >> I mean, he the only thing with that is [141:26] that he can kind of pick who it is he's [141:29] fighting to an extent and so [141:31] >> he can get away with the weight class [141:32] thing a little bit. [141:33] >> He can he can do whatever the [ __ ] he [141:35] wants. But, you know, if I was in his [141:38] it's it's also at his age. Should he [141:40] even be cutting that kind of weight [141:41] anymore? Right. [141:41] >> Maybe just pick the the real fight is [141:44] 170 with Michael Chandler. Like, have [141:46] that fight. You want to have one more [141:47] fight and go out, you know? [141:49] >> That would be beautiful for him. Yeah, [141:50] >> cuz Max is a tough It's a tough matchup [141:53] for him. It's tough if he doesn't get [141:55] Max out of there in the first two rounds [141:56] and good luck with that. Like, Max is [141:59] gonna I mean, Max's whole strategy was [142:01] we're going to drown him. [142:02] >> Yeah. That's like those right [142:04] >> that's what his thoughts were. [142:06] >> Yeah. And you Yeah, that's a tough one. [142:09] Max is uh as tough as they come and and [142:11] he's fighting the top of the top [142:13] consistently. So [142:14] >> yeah, [142:15] >> he's only getting better. He's only [142:16] getting more experienced. I think [142:18] Michael Chandler would be [142:20] great regardless. I think it draws the [142:21] crowd. I think it brings the energy to [142:23] it. I think that's a good skill level. [142:26] >> They went through the whole Ultimate [142:27] Fighter thing together and talked all [142:29] the [ __ ] to each other. It's like [142:30] >> it's crazy that Chandler sit sat in the [142:32] shell for like two years waiting for [142:34] that fight and then finally he's like, [142:36] "All right, I guess it's not happening, [142:37] >> right?" [142:38] >> Yeah, [142:38] >> he got [ __ ] [142:40] >> He did. And uh [142:43] Chandler to me is like he's he's very [142:46] physically tough. I just, you know, I [142:48] don't think he is as skillful as Max or [142:50] some of these other guys. So, I think [142:52] that's a great fight for Connor. I think [142:53] that's a good one for him to come back [142:54] on. [142:55] >> Yeah. I mean, Chandler's a wild dog. He [142:57] is a wild dog, but he relies on that too [142:59] much is what I've seen is like he comes [143:00] out all crazy [143:02] >> and it's just like dude like that's the [143:04] same thing. Start with a jab. Start Oh, [143:06] and it's who am I to say it quite yet. [143:08] You know, he's he's there doing his [143:10] thing. But from my perspective, you [143:12] know, there needs to be a little bit [143:13] more calculation there. [143:14] >> Well, it's not going to happen at this [143:16] stage of his career. But yeah, if you go [143:18] back and watch his Eddie Alvarez fights [143:20] back when he was fighting in Bellator, [143:21] those [143:22] >> Yeah, that was that's like a war back [143:23] and forth, you know, like both those [143:24] guys hit the canvas like insane [143:26] >> three or four times each, you know? So [143:28] >> those fights were insane. [143:29] >> Yeah. [143:29] >> Some of the like like for people that [143:32] like you want to see a great fight that [143:33] you probably never saw before. If you [143:35] only watch the UFC, go back and watch Ch [143:38] Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez [143:40] one and two. [143:41] >> Those fights are nuts, [143:43] >> right? Yeah. Yeah, like I said, it's [143:44] just like a like a war [143:45] >> war back and forth. But that's that's [143:47] also Chandler is a very physical guy. [143:50] He's very explosive and just think like [143:54] back at his prime, you know, how much [143:56] more explosive he was, how much power he [143:57] had, how much energy he was delivering [143:59] to that fight. So, and that's that's why [144:02] he was performing like that. But like [144:04] like a lot of fighters, you know, like [144:05] the Roy Jones and stuff is you can't [144:07] always rely on that, especially in your [144:08] later years. Like that's back to this. [144:10] you got to be thinking with with this, [144:12] especially as your body starts to get a [144:14] little bit slower and not as explosive. [144:17] So, I don't know. He He's He's over [144:19] there getting after it. I mean, that GI [144:22] fight, he was definitely not on the [144:23] winning end of it, but he stayed in it [144:25] and and fought hard. And then [144:27] >> the Pouyet fight, he's had some great [144:29] fights. [144:30] >> He's had some great fights for sure. Uh [144:31] I mean, you fight a guy like Ruffy, [144:33] Ruffy's just on a tear right now. if you [144:34] don't take him down to the ground, [144:36] there's not a lot of people that beat [144:37] him on a pure striking match right now [144:40] anyway. So, [144:41] >> he's so good. [144:42] >> Yeah, he's See, that's another one [144:43] that's another like individual that you [144:46] look at it like like a work of art, you [144:48] know, someone who really understands [144:50] >> uh what it means to be a striker. [144:52] >> Yeah. And super creative. Like he does a [144:55] lot of wild stuff in sparring. There's [144:56] some awesome sparring footage of him [144:58] like pulling off crescent kicks when [144:59] he's like two inches from you. [145:01] >> Yeah. He's like back fist, spinning back [145:02] fist. He's artistic. I mean, he's very [145:05] creative when he's in there. It's [145:06] beautiful to watch. He's got a great [145:09] fight coming up. Um, who is he fighting? [145:13] Why did I blank on it? He's fighting [145:18] someone. Oh, Arman Sarukian. [145:20] >> Oh, yeah. [145:21] >> Yes. [145:23] >> Two or three weeks. [145:24] >> Yes. Arman Sukian. And they're fighting [145:27] in LA. That's a That's a good fight. [145:30] That's a really good fight. [145:31] >> And that's Yeah, that's that's the whole [145:34] thing with him. He's got to like make [145:35] sure he doesn't get taken down against [145:36] someone like Arman Sarukqi. That's uh [145:39] that's a tall task right there. [145:40] >> Yeah, absolutely. That guy's one of the [145:42] best wrestlers in the sport. It's [145:44] interesting to see him stay relevant [145:46] outside the UFC when the UFC hasn't been [145:48] offering fights. That's great. [145:49] >> Yeah, [145:50] >> very smart. [145:50] >> He's doing his thing. [145:51] >> He's doing his thing. It's very smart [145:52] what he's doing and and you know getting [145:54] into the RAF matches and doing a bunch [145:57] of different things on social media. He [145:59] just stays out there. [146:00] >> Yeah. He's hanging out with all the [146:01] Twitch streamers and stuff. Mhm. [146:02] >> It's not like he needs money, you know? [146:04] >> He's good on that part. [146:06] >> That's weird. It's weird for a guy to be [146:08] that good who's rich, [146:09] >> right? [146:10] >> He's so good. He's so tough. [146:12] >> Yeah. Two trains of thought there. It's [146:13] like you either have all the amenities [146:14] to do so or like you have all the [146:16] amenities. So then you're [146:18] >> you just you're a [ __ ] You don't need [146:19] to do anything. You just sit around. But [146:22] not him. He's [ __ ] shredded and he [146:24] grew up rich. [146:25] >> Yeah. [146:25] >> Yeah. Like stupid rich. [146:27] >> Literally Bruce Wayne. [146:29] >> He's the UFC Bruce Wayne. He's Bruce [146:31] Wayne. I mean, he's always got Ferraris [146:33] and [ __ ] you know. You ever watch his [146:35] video series on YouTube? His training [146:37] series. [146:38] >> Um, which one? Like the [146:40] >> Yeah. So, they roll into a town like he [146:42] rolls into LA. [146:43] >> First thing he does is goes and rents a [146:45] Lamborghini. [146:46] >> So, when he shows up at training, he's [146:48] driving around a rented Lamborghini [146:50] everywhere. He's got that kind of [146:51] scratch, [146:51] >> right? [146:52] >> And yet he's training like a [ __ ] [146:54] absolute animal. And he's a great [146:57] fighter, right? [146:58] >> I mean, he has no flaws in his game. no [147:00] flaw in terms of heart. He doesn't quit. [147:01] It's like that his first fight with [147:03] Islam was [ __ ] chaos. He gave Islam [147:06] one of the toughest fights of his [147:07] career, [147:07] >> right? I think that's I think that's [147:10] probably the closest I mean besides [147:12] obviously Islam's loss. Yes. [147:13] >> That he really got tested like that, you [147:15] know. [147:15] >> Absolutely. [147:16] >> And that was a short notice, wasn't it, [147:17] for [147:17] >> Arman? Yes. Yeah. [147:19] >> So, he's he's got all the skills. He's [147:21] he's a top contender for sure. And when [147:23] you think about uh Ruffy uh the the real [147:26] problem that he had in the UFC was that [147:28] one fight with Benoisen who got taken [147:31] down and [147:32] >> you know Benois is obviously very elite [147:35] grappler. So it'd be interesting to see [147:38] right [147:38] >> if he can avoid uh Arman. [147:40] >> That's that's the big question right [147:42] there for sure. Uh I I would think that [147:45] that's what his camp is surrounded [147:48] around is take down defense getting up [147:50] off the bottom. [147:51] >> Yeah. blocking some uh chokes and being [147:55] able to get back to the feet. I mean, [147:56] that's the thing. That's, you know, for [147:59] the MMA striker guys, it's not like you [148:01] have to be like the dopest wrestler like [148:03] all around, but you do need to be really [148:06] good at defending takedowns. Yeah. [148:07] >> And you do need to have one, two, three [148:11] escapes off the bottom, a sweep, some [148:13] kind of ability to stand up. Um, you [148:16] know, and then, yeah, get back to your [148:18] feet and make this make this a close [148:19] fight. If you get stuck on the bottom, [148:21] then you're you're done for. You're [148:22] screwed. [148:23] >> And I think for a lot of these guys that [148:25] are elite strikers, it takes that one [148:27] fight where you do get dominated on the [148:29] ground to really have a wakeup call. [148:31] >> And uh I think a good example of that [148:33] might be Sirill Gone when Serial Gan [148:35] fought Jon Jones. Yeah. You know, and [148:37] also Francis. Francis beat him up on the [148:40] ground as well, right? But the Jon Jones [148:41] one was, I think, a real humbling wakeup [148:43] call because Jon essentially avoided [148:46] getting hit completely, took him down, [148:48] and strangled him. Yeah. real quick, [148:49] >> right? [148:50] >> And then he's sitting there like, [148:51] "Fuck." And from that moment on, that [148:54] dude's been on a tear, right? [148:56] >> I mean, and you you see how he performed [148:58] on the White House lawn against, [149:01] >> you know, what we thought is arguably [149:04] one of the greatest strikers that's ever [149:05] fought in the UFC, Alex Pereira, and he [149:07] certainly was at middleweight and light [149:09] heavyweight, but [149:10] >> zero gone at heavyweight is something [149:12] special, man. Yeah. [149:13] >> There's a good example of a guy that you [149:15] were talking about who hits and doesn't [149:16] get hit. We've literally never seen him [149:18] get rocked, [149:18] >> right? Well, that's like which is crazy. [149:20] >> And he's he's got that savantish style. [149:23] I wouldn't say it's completely savant, [149:24] but he bounces. It's almost like that [149:26] karate savvat. He moves really well in [149:28] and out. Dude, if you can do that at [149:30] heavyweight, you're that big and you can [149:31] move like that, it's going to be very [149:33] difficult for a lot of those guys to [149:34] track you and keep [149:35] >> Absolutely. And you know, we were [149:37] talking about like point fighting, like [149:38] how point fighting has like such a like [149:40] I think it's it's a great skill to [149:42] learn. Another great skill to learn is [149:45] basketball. And that's what Sirro Gan [149:47] did. He played a lot of basketball. And [149:49] if you think about a big guy where [149:51] you're constantly exploding and moving [149:53] and all this different changing [149:55] directions. [149:56] >> Yeah. [149:56] >> That would definitely benefit you with [149:58] footwork. [149:58] >> Yeah. There's all sorts of hand eye [150:00] coordination. You got to be very quick [150:01] and yeah. Be able to move your hands and [150:02] your feet in succession. So [150:04] >> cuz look, nobody no heavyweights move [150:06] like that guy, right? [150:07] >> He's he is the gold standard for like [150:09] elite moving heavyweights in the UFC. [150:11] It's serial gone. And then there's no [150:13] close second. Like think who's a close [150:15] second at heavyweight. [150:17] >> You got to go back like that. [150:19] >> Travis Brown when he was in his prime. [150:21] Travis Brown when he's in his prime was [150:22] very light on his feet and moved very [150:24] well. [150:25] >> But I think Serial Gone is like a new [150:27] level, a new level of like elite mo [150:30] mobile heavyweight who also has [150:32] ridiculous knockout power. [150:33] >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would I would [150:35] say the only person that rivals his [150:37] speed and agility would be maybe like a [150:39] Hokit. I don't I haven't really seen um [150:42] >> Hok's fast. But don't you think he's got [150:44] that kind of footwork speed that? [150:47] >> No, not at all. Like there's no [150:48] comparison on on the skill levels of [150:50] that movement in the striking. [150:52] >> He just has similar speed and agility. [150:54] That's all. [150:55] >> What Hogan has is elite wrestling [150:56] though. And uh a lot of [ __ ] talking. [150:59] >> Lot of [ __ ] talking. He gets people [151:01] riled up. [151:02] >> I don't know. I think I think that's [151:04] also something that Connor did really [151:05] well is that you got these guys going [151:06] into a fight going, I cannot get beat by [151:09] this guy. He just did. He said this and [151:11] this and this and I have all this [151:12] pressure and you could see it like you [151:14] saw it on Jose Aldo. Um [151:17] um what's the other Brazilian he fought? [151:20] Um [151:22] I don't know. It starts with a an R. [151:25] You've spot him before. Maybe it was a [151:28] second fight. [151:29] I don't know why I'm blanking on his [151:31] name. But [151:31] >> yeah, I know who you're talking about. [151:32] I'm seeing [151:33] >> he comes out. He runs out all crazy like [151:35] just everybody. everybody. [151:36] >> He gets them wild though. [151:38] >> If you have that added pressure, it's a [151:39] psychological effect. And I think Hok [151:42] does the same thing. You know, he takes [151:43] takes people out of their comfort zone. [151:45] Now everything's extra tense. [151:46] Everything's guarded. Every you're not [151:48] making any like [151:49] >> uh you're not taking any chances or [151:52] risks or stepping out of line. You're [151:54] just you're very very safe and secluded [151:57] and fighting. You know, you have to be [151:59] loose when you're fighting. You can't be [152:00] thinking that. [152:01] >> And you probably didn't sleep good the [152:02] night before cuz you [ __ ] hate this [152:03] guy. [152:04] >> Yeah. And then you're and then you're [152:05] like, yeah, riled up, pissed off. All I [152:07] want to do is take his head off. You're [152:09] not thinking about technique. You're [152:10] thinking about taking his head off. [152:11] That's it. One big overhand. It's like, [152:13] dude, when you fight angry, then you're [152:16] you had all this skill and your emotion [152:18] could take it like right out of you. [152:19] See, that's another aspect of of this [152:21] striking game, of this MMA game. Do you [152:23] think that that should be taught more [152:25] that the that the mental aspect of the [152:27] game of just being able to stay in your [152:30] own head and not get affected by these [152:33] outside influences, not get affected by [152:35] and understand what these things are? So [152:37] when you encounter them, you you know, [152:40] like have a coach, I think, that could [152:42] teach you not just how to fight, but [152:44] also how to maintain your peace of mind [152:47] and how to maintain your focus and not [152:49] get distracted. [152:50] >> Oh, 100%. I uh I don't know like [152:53] everybody's individual, you know. It's [152:54] hard to have a program because you have [152:57] guys that go to like uh athletic [153:00] therapists or whatever, like uh [153:01] performance therapists and they sit and [153:03] they do all that stuff. [153:05] >> I think a little bit is you're you're [153:06] born with it. You have the ability to [153:08] control like emotions better than [153:09] others. Some people go through again [153:12] back to like just hard life experiences [153:14] is is the best teacher. So, a lot of [153:16] people learn that way. Um I don't know. [153:19] I don't know what it is for like each [153:21] individual person. Me like the the third [153:24] person I train with is my boxing coach [153:26] Dale Royal out of his we literally train [153:28] out of his garage in his front yard, you [153:30] know. And uh like we we talk spiritually [153:35] beyond like just boxing. We talk about [153:37] the world. We we delve into the [153:40] spirituality of of the gospel and God, [153:43] what that means to us. Um he he's a big [153:47] time recurve guy. That's who I went and [153:48] did my archery competition with. He's [153:49] the big time leather working guy. Like [153:52] um and so we we just sit and talk about [153:54] like what it means to be a warrior, the [153:56] the philosophy and the psychology behind [153:58] that. What it means to control your [153:59] emotions when you're engaged with [154:01] certain aspects uh in life. How do you [154:03] come out on the other side of it? Like [154:05] every day. I mean oftent times we just [154:07] we stop and we're just sitting and [154:09] talking about things. And you know my [154:11] wife's always like you're just sitting [154:12] there talking hanging out with them. [154:13] Like this is part of training babe. We [154:15] talking psychology. you know, like it's [154:17] something we got to spend extra time [154:18] doing. And uh but I do like I get there [154:21] and we'll sit and talk for 30 minutes [154:23] sometimes before we even warm up. I'm [154:25] stretching and we then we get into he [154:27] starts wrapping hands. Like we're always [154:28] just like adjusting and constantly [154:30] talking about it. Um [154:32] >> so that's a great resource [154:34] >> to me. That's that's fantastic. Like [154:36] it's it's a it it makes fighting [154:38] spiritual to me. It makes it like it [154:40] takes it another level up, you know? And [154:42] so and then yeah, I mean I got him. We [154:44] really connect on a lot of things. Eric [154:46] Pollson is an absolute legend of the [154:48] game. I have a lot of experience that I [154:50] learned from him, a lot of mindset. He's [154:52] he's the same way. Uh Ben Jones, he's [154:55] he's the guy that you want to go into [154:57] battle with. He's the one that you guys [154:58] hear in the corner that's super loud. [155:00] He's the kind of guy that Yeah. He's [155:02] he's he's putting you through that [155:03] hardship mentally and physically in the [155:06] room. And uh if you can endure that, [155:08] then you can go out and fight. So, I [155:10] think there's different levels to it. [155:12] You got to get it in different ways, but [155:14] uh [155:16] uh it's interpersonal, you know, and you [155:17] gota you gotta delve into that and it's [155:19] got to be its own practice, its own [155:21] training for the day. So 100%. I mean, [155:23] yeah, if you get riled up by the [155:24] littlest thing and you go out there and [155:26] you try to go crazy now, you're just [155:28] you're just like a kindergarter in this [155:30] fight game. You've lost everything. And [155:31] emotion can do that to you. So yeah, I [155:34] mean, you you have to be on top of that. [155:35] It's you know, I I say there's so many [155:37] levels to this. There's the cardio, [155:39] there's skill set, there's [155:42] being relaxed, there's an emotional [155:44] aspect that you have to think about [155:45] like, you know, cuz everybody gets hit [155:47] and like what's the natural reaction? [155:48] I'm going to get you right back. But the [155:50] the best fighter can get hit and just [155:52] not even think about it. Not even get [155:54] riled up one heart, you know, their [155:56] heart their heartbeat doesn't even go up [155:57] one level. Bam. The game plan stays the [156:00] same. Bam, bam, bam. I'm intelligently [156:01] blocking. I'm doing my stuff. I've I've [156:03] never deviated from what I'm doing. And [156:05] if you could do that, beautiful. You got [156:07] it. [156:08] >> That's an awesome mindset, brother. I [156:09] can't wait to see you inside there [156:11] again. And thank you much very much for [156:13] being here. It was a lot of fun. I [156:14] really enjoyed it. [156:15] >> Thanks for having me. It was a great [156:16] experience. [156:16] >> My pleasure. Good luck in the future. [156:18] I'm sure I'll be calling one of your [156:19] fights soon. [156:20] >> Yes, sir. [156:20] >> All right. Beautiful. Bye, everybody.

UFC's Ethyn Ewing Rejects Brawl-Heavy MMA for Technical Avoidance

Detailed notes

[05:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=343s) Tactical Precision vs. "Educated Street Brawls"

[08:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=492s) Evolving from Iowa-Style Wrestling to Technical Balance

[12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=725s) Training with the Ruotolo Brothers & Steroids in Jiu-Jitsu

[15:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=910s) Steroids, Technical Prowess, and the "Great Eraser"

[19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1166s) The Physics of Knockout Power vs. Volume Striking

[20:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1254s) Examining Fight Cardio and McGregor vs. Aldo

[24:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1467s) Max Holloway's Pressure and the Realities of Weight Cutting

[27:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1653s) Ilia Topuria's Technical Dominance and the Lost Art of the Jab

[30:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1830s) Recovery Time and the Mental Toll of Big Knockouts

[32:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=1925s) Alexander Volkanovski and the Perils of Coming Back Too Soon

[33:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2013s) Ethyn Ewing's 48-Hour UFC Call-Up and Short-Notice Victories

[36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2194s) Israel Adesanya's Title Defense Work ethic and Activity vs. Burnout

[38:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2316s) MMA vs. Boxing: Business Mindsets, Injuries, and Freak Accidents

[43:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2584s) The Modern Evolution of MMA and Anderson Silva's Alien Era

[45:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2750s) Anderson Silva’s Innovation and the Bank Robber Elite Fighter

[48:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=2911s) The Evolution of the Front Kick and Calf Kick Mechanics

[52:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3148s) Jonathan Haggerty vs. Yuki Yoza: A Masterclass in Movement

[56:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3412s) Reach, Body Types, and Mike Tyson’s Elusiveness

[01:00:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3616s) Levels of Understanding and the Reality of Fighter Fatigue

[01:02:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3720s) Reevaluating Early Career Losses and Lifestyle Changes

[01:04:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=3854s) College Wrestling, Injuries, and Personal Faith

[01:10:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4214s) Meniscus Surgery vs. Rehabilitation and Knee Recovery

[01:14:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4464s) Poliquin Step-Downs and Backward Treadmill Walks

[01:17:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4634s) Lateral Movement, Band Work, and the Marinovich Method

[01:18:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4727s) Merab Dvalishvili and the Mental Crucible of Wrestling Cardio

[01:23:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=4995s) Point Karate, Savate, and Precision Toe Kicking

[01:25:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5151s) Devastating Foot Injuries and Massive Bantamweight Weight Cuts

[01:27:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5278s) Weight Cuts, "Weight Bullies," and the Science of Saunas

[01:32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5520s) Analyzing Moses Itauma vs. Filip Hrgović: The Danger of Gas Tank Depletion

[01:37:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=5820s) UFC vs. Boxing Culture: Short-Notice Risks and Promotional Models

[01:41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6060s) Samurai Philosophy and *Hagakure*

[01:42:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6141s) Samurai Mindsets, Screen Time, and the Impact of Social Media

[01:45:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6340s) Shore Diving, Spear Fishing, and Bow Hunting vs. Rifle Hunting

[01:49:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6592s) Feral Swine Infestation and Eradication Methods

[01:52:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6763s) Feral Swine Distribution and the Biology of Pig Metamorphosis

[01:56:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6985s) Massive Wild Hogs and Misleading Perspectives

[02:00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7202s) Bow Hunting and Performance Archery

[02:02:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7347s) The Warrior Mindset and Self-Reliance

[02:04:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7481s) Training Gyms and the Legend of Erik Paulson

[02:06:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7596s) Early UFC Rules, Headbutts, and Forced Stand-Ups

[02:09:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7742s) Renzo Gracie vs. Ben Spijkers at WCC

[02:10:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=7838s) The Origin of the 12-to-6 Elbow Ban and Bizarre MMA Rule Experiments

[02:14:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8041s) Promoting Regional Talent, Mergers, and the Business of MMA

[02:16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8190s) Assessing Conor McGregor's Career Trajectory and Physical Toll

[02:21:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8500s) Matchup Analysis: Chandler, Holloway, and the Evolution of Strikers

[02:24:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8654s) Striking Masterclass, Mauricio Ruffy, and Arman Tsarukyan

[02:28:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=8903s) Ciryl Gane, Heavyweight Movement, and Psychological Pressure

[02:32:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=9139s) The Mental and Spiritual Dimensions of Fighting

中文简报

Reading summary

精炼阅读摘要

Detailed notes — zh

Source quotes

Source quotes

Original transcript

[01:41:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efwqfxt717Q&t=6060s) Samurai Philosophy and Hagakure