The future of the internet economy: insights from Atlassian, ANU, Zip, and Stripe

互联网经济的未来：Atlassian、ANU、Zip与Stripe的洞见 专家组探讨了数字经济的快速扩张——预计到2025年其规模将突破20万亿美元，以及企业如何在抓住这一增长机遇的同时不失以人为本的重心。与会嘉宾批评了单纯为了技术而采用技术的倾向，并就消费者支付方式的演变、远程办公的现实以及澳大利亚在AI部署方面的潜在优势分享了见解。最终，他们倡导采取一种平衡的方法，将技术敏捷性与深刻的人类好奇心、负责任的做法以及对计算环境成本的意识相结合。 数字经济的增长速度是全球其他经济领域的2.5倍，预计到2025年规模将突破20万亿美元。 (1:00) 企业必须避免陷入“复印机经济”的陷阱，即在不重新思考用户体验的情况下将不良且陈旧的流程直接自动化。 (5:08) 保持业务敏捷性需要构建试验文化，因为文化最终会压倒战略。 (8:08) 消费者支付偏好正在快速转变，年轻一代对传统信用卡的强烈排斥推动了“先买后付”（BNPL）服务的兴起。 (12:01) 电商购物车放弃结账往往是一种数字化的“逛橱窗”与想象行为，而非单纯的交易失败。 (16:21)

Leaders from Stripe, Atlassian, ANU, and Zip argue that capturing value in the expanding digital economy requires organizations to prioritize human behavior, operational purpose, and cultural agility over technological novelty. While digital platforms lower barriers to global expansion and AI adoption, sustainable growth depends on managing localization complexities, workforce dynamics, and the heavy resource costs of new technologies. Grounding Digital Transformation in Purpose and Capability (5:08) Technological adoption often falters when treated as an objective rather than an enabler. Professor Genevieve Bell cautions against automating flawed workflows, comparing the uncritical embrace of digital tools to a hypothetical 'photocopier economy' that confuses equipment with business strategy. She advises leaders to evaluate their core business models and executive competencies before implementing artificial intelligence, rather than reacting to five-to-ten-year speculative forecasts. Dominic Price reinforces this, noting that giving tools to ineffective teams merely accelerates poor execution. Price identifies persistent missteps in enterprise transformations, including over-indexing on abstract visions, paying excessive fees to external consultants for presentation decks, and neglecting the interpersonal dynamics of work. Rather than adopting technology reflexively, Atlassian advocates questioning both the purpose ('why') and unintended consequences ('why not') of new deployments. By focusing on fundamental human collaboration through open-source internal frameworks like their Team Playbook, organizations can use technology to amplify effective processes rather than trying to substitute software for cultural alignment. Navigating Global Ambition, Localization, and Distributed Work (8:08) Although Stripe data indicates that 86% of businesses find global expansion increasingly accessible—with 30% of Australian Stripe merchants operating across borders—borderless scale presents severe operational trade-offs. Price notes that founders frequently miscalculate addressable markets by overlooking the necessity of localization, facing an unappealing choice between maintaining over a hundred localized product variations or releasing a generic offering that satisfies no market. Larry Diamond adds that while startups pivot easily, enterprise agility requires intentional cultural design to prevent organizations from reverting to outdated operating habits. Global scaling also reshapes operational structures. Atlassian manages a distributed international workforce by requiring four-hour overlapping time-zone 'halos' rather than centralized office hubs. However, Bell and Price stress the biological constraints of remote environments: lower screen refresh rates force continuous cognitive compensation, close-up digital interfaces trigger stress responses, and purely virtual channels can erode teams' capacity for constructive conflict. To counteract this gradual decay of team cohesion, Atlassian supplements distributed arrangements with quarterly in-person gatherings. Reimagining Payments and Decoding Consumer Checkout Behaviors (12:01) Changing demographic expectations are fundamentally altering financial channels. Diamond highlights a sharp generational pivot away from revolving credit, noting that 60% to 70% of Millennials globally rely on Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) mechanisms embedded directly into checkout interfaces. This shift reflects stark regional variations: Australian interest-bearing credit card debt decreased by 45% over the past decade as 6 million residents adopted BNPL, whereas US credit card balances increased by 50% following pandemic lows. Retailers must adapt by decentralizing financial services and integrating consumers' preferred payment rails directly into digital touchpoints. Concurrently, consumer motivations at checkout defy simplistic transactional assumptions. While Stripe reports an average 70% shopping cart abandonment rate, Price and Bell explain that abandonment is not always a commercial failure. Consumers intentionally abandon carts to trigger automated promotional discounts, or use digital baskets for recreational, imaginative browsing rather than immediate acquisition. Bell warns that algorithmic retargeting and rigid personalization can backfire if they fail to balance algorithmic familiarity with the serendipity consumers seek when forming new tastes. Evaluating Real-World AI Deployments and Environmental Tolls (29:51) Contrary to the perception that artificial intelligence is monopolized by American and Chinese tech conglomerates, Bell points out that Australia possesses a 15-year foundation of excellence in computer vision and machine learning. The country hosts some of the world's most advanced operational AI deployments, such as autonomous haulage fleets in Western Australia's Pilbara mining region and specialized banking applications. For instance, the Commonwealth Bank of Australia deployed machine learning models to detect, intercept, and eliminate abusive messaging directed through micro-payment transaction descriptions. However, expanding AI utilization introduces substantial, frequently unaddressed physical costs. Bell stresses that digital workloads rely on physical infrastructure with heavy ecological demands: hyperscale providers like Microsoft have reported 20% to 30% year-on-year energy budget increases to support AI compute. Furthermore, estimates indicate that every 20 generative AI prompts consume roughly half a liter of water for data center cooling. As processing requirements grow and facilities expand into regions navigating complex energy transitions, these invisible environmental liabilities will increasingly challenge the sustainability of rapid technological expansion. The panel views developments like Australia's Consumer Data Right as catalysts for an 'open everything' economy that shifts data ownership to consumers, forcing businesses to compete through better service and analytics. However, realizing this potential requires leaders to resist uncritical technology adoption, account for ecological and operational constraints, and approach disruption with curiosity rather than defensive conviction.

Stripe与来自Atlassian、澳大利亚国立大学及Zip的行业领袖指出，全球数字经济正以传统经济2.5倍的速度扩张，预计到2025年将突破20万亿美元；企业若想在此浪潮中确立优势，必须避免对技术的盲目崇拜，转而在业务模型清晰度、组织协同能力与严谨的资源考量上深耕。 技术工具论与务实转型 (5:08) 针对数字化转型的狂热，澳大利亚国立大学校长Genevieve Bell警告企业不要将不良流程直接自动化。她回顾互联网早期部分组织直接将纸质表格照搬上网的反面案例，强调企业在引入人工智能等新技术前必须厘清商业模式，避免将技术视作脱离核心目的的“拜物教”，正如社会从未将经济形态命名为“复印机经济”或“传真机经济”。Atlassian工作未来学家Dominic Price对此呼应，指出“装备了工具的愚人仍是愚人，技术只是让他跑得更快”，企业必须防止让技术去掩盖基础的人性与业务缺陷。 Price进一步总结了转型中的三大典型误区：首先是过度迷恋远期未来而忽视当下现实，忽视渐进式的改进；其次是花费数千万美元聘请外部咨询公司，换取精美PPT却无法解决核心运营问题；最后是忽视人际协作的基本动态。他强调，技术应当仅用于放大人类团队的协作能力，而非取代组织内最基础的行为互动与沟通逻辑。 消费行为演变与支付重塑 (12:01) Stripe数据显示，Z世代已占据劳动力市场的24%，无现金化趋势显著。在电商领域，购物车放弃率高达70%，其核心诱因之一是结账环节缺乏客户偏好或信任的支付工具。Zip联合创始人Larry Diamond指出，年轻一代对传统信用卡产生抵触，60%至70%的千禧一代将“先买后付”（BNPL）视为主要替代支付手段。在澳大利亚，计息信用卡债务在过去十年下降了45%，600万民众更倾向使用BNPL；而美国自疫情低点以来信用卡债务却激增了50%。Diamond主张零售商必须适应去中心化与嵌入式金融，无论消费者提出何种支付偏好都应在结账端予以满足。 与此同时，专家们对弃单现象进行了反思。Price透露自己常通过主动放弃购物车来等待商家发送折扣码，揭示出消费者对营销自动化机制的反向利用；Bell则指出，将弃单全部定性为交易失败并不准确，购物本身包含“幻想式”的消遣与探索成分。早期的算法重定向曾因让同一双鞋在网络上如影随形追踪用户而引发抵触，算法过度精准的千人千面可能适得其反，因为人类天性需要在熟悉与带来轻微不适的新奇之间寻找平衡，以形成新的品味。 全球扩张悖论与敏捷团队协作 (8:08) 虽然Stripe调研显示86%的企业认为“走向全球”比以往更容易，但Price警告称“无边界企业”的理念隐藏巨大风险。假设全球50万亿美元潜在市场触手可及的创业者，往往忽视了激烈的本地化要求：企业要么花费高昂成本打造150个本地化版本，要么打造一个表面上通用于所有人、实际上对谁都不适用的平庸通用版本。在澳大利亚，因国内市场规模有限，30%的Stripe商户开展跨境业务。Price指出Atlassian从两人起步覆盖160个国家，其经验表明企业必须在初期就计划好支撑190个国家所需的长期运营能力，同时他还批评了部分本地政客试图针对AI立法而给本国出海企业增加合规成本的做法。 在远程办公实践上，Atlassian采取“随处办公”策略，通过构建至少有4小时重叠的“时区光环”摆脱对悉尼、旧金山等高成本枢纽的依赖。然而，长时间远程也带来了生物物理层面的疲劳。Bell解释，屏幕刷新率滞后于人类眼球运动，迫使大脑持续填补视觉空白，且屏幕特写极易触发肾上腺素的“战斗或逃跑”反应。为解决远程环境削弱团队化解建设性冲突能力的问题，Atlassian实行“有意识的聚集”，每季度组织一次线下集会，以对冲团队连接感的衰减。 澳大利亚的AI现实与环境隐性成本 (29:51) Bell指出，澳大利亚常被低估为其深厚的AI积淀。凭借长达15年的国家级卓越中心投资以及联邦科学与工业研究组织（CSIRO）的支持，该国在计算机视觉与机器学习领域具备世界级实力。在产业落地层面，西澳大利亚皮尔巴拉地区的矿区运营着全球规模最大的全自主无人驾驶矿卡，其工业AI部署领先全球；联邦银行（CBA）等传统金融巨头通过AI技术识别微额转账附言，成功拦截针对家庭暴力的恶意骚扰信息。 然而，AI的大规模部署正在带来被长期忽视的环境代价。微软与谷歌的年度报告披露了能源预算的大幅跃升，其中微软能源预算年增幅达20%至30%。相关测算表明，用户每发起20次ChatGPT提示词交互，就会消耗约半升水用于数据中心冷却。随着跨国算力需求跨越海底光缆并逐渐在澳本土建设服务器集群，在正经历复杂能源转型的澳大利亚，AI对水电等公共资源的消耗构成了切实的生态风险，这一隐性消耗被比作“香肠生产流程”，看似便利，其背后的代价却不容忽视。 研讨嘉宾一致认为，面对未来十年的数据开放与技术演进，企业不应陷入狂热的技术军备竞赛或过度沉溺于远景规划，而应建立“保持好奇而非愤怒”、“据理力争但虚心倾听”的组织文化，聚焦于当下的业务常识与人性连接，以应对跨国竞争与生态资源带来的深层挑战。

[5:08] Genevieve Bell: What should businesses be doing today, tomorrow, and the next day to in fact be in the world, not prepare for it as though it were turning up somewhere else? [5:08] Dominic Price: A fool with a tool is still a fool—you've just made them faster. [12:01] Larry Diamond: If a million customers come through the door and want to pay with their left hand, you need to be able to meet that need and offer left-hand payments. [16:21] Genevieve Bell: Why are the shoes following me? [24:48] Genevieve Bell: You learn from your body, not just your brain. [33:40] Dominic Price: What's the [fucking] point, right? [35:28] Genevieve Bell: the cloud is just someone else's computer [43:50] Genevieve Bell: the only way to think about the future is to build it. [43:50] Genevieve Bell: Less Furious, More Curious [43:50] Dominic Price: Argue like you're right, listen like you're wrong

[0:01] [Music] [0:10] please welcome stripe managing director [0:12] Australia and New Zealand Carl [0:21] Dar hello again and thank you to Emily [0:24] and [0:26] JJ so what a day it's been a long day [0:30] and I'm excited to be hosting our final [0:33] panel to chat about the opportunities [0:35] and challenges that are presented by the [0:38] digital economy for Australian business [0:40] but before I invite our panelists to [0:43] unpack their thoughts I thought I'd give [0:45] you a bit of a perspective from strip [0:48] and so let's start with this when we [0:50] think about GDP we naturally think about [0:54] very very large numbers large numbers [0:56] like 100 trillion and as you can see [1:00] over a long period of time GDP continues [1:02] to grow up and to the right outside of a [1:05] number of um significant am moments in [1:08] time now it begs the question where is [1:12] the next 50 trillion going to come from [1:15] and it stri we would posture that a [1:18] significant portion of that is going to [1:19] come from the digital economy right so [1:22] right now um uh the digital economy [1:25] represents about 15% contribution to [1:27] Global GDP but what's interesting about [1:29] that 15% is that it is growing over 2 [1:33] and a half times faster than the rest of [1:35] GDP and it's projected to reach a value [1:38] of over 20 trillion by 2025 and so as we [1:42] look forward at predicting the future [1:45] for the next 50 trillion this component [1:47] is going to have an outsize contribution [1:50] over the next 5 to 10 [1:52] years now we can break digital into a [1:56] whole bunch of different categories but [1:59] when it comes to where the growth [2:00] opportunities are being presented uh [2:03] we've got these three that we're seeing [2:05] right now as an area of opportunity and [2:07] so the first is Automation and so [2:09] Business Leaders are starting to shift [2:12] their focus towards optimization and [2:14] efficiency by digitizing more core [2:16] processes this is both at the front end [2:18] of their business but also in the back [2:24] office changing consumer [2:27] expectations uh are a challenge for [2:29] business as they continue to engage with [2:31] their prospective in existing customer [2:33] base and the way that consumers are [2:35] paying for goods and services is [2:37] changing when we look at gen Z and the [2:40] fact that they represent about 24% now [2:43] of workers the fact that there is a [2:45] large proportion of the population that [2:48] no longer carry wallets the fact that [2:50] cash is on significant decline over the [2:53] last 10 years it is a significant [2:55] challenge but opportunity for businesses [2:58] to lean into that [3:01] and then finally International expansion [3:03] so we did some research recently that [3:05] found that 86% of businesses believe [3:09] that it's never been easier to go Global [3:11] than today and 76% believe it's never [3:15] been easier to reach a new customer [3:18] segment so when we look at the global [3:21] opportunity the opportunity has never [3:23] been [3:25] broader and so let's unpack the [3:28] opportunity and the challenges for [3:29] Australia with three thought leaders [3:32] Dominic price from atlassian Professor [3:34] geneveve Bell from Anu and Larry diamond [3:37] from [3:38] [Music] [3:48] zip we had a really big conversation [3:50] around where to sit um and we worked out [3:54] just sit under the um the picture so um [3:57] we might introduce um from The Far Side [4:00] Dom and so just for the benefit of [4:02] everyone in the room um so Dom is the [4:04] resident F work futurist at atlassian [4:07] responsible for helping the tech Giants [4:09] scale how they work um uh from a [4:12] distributed team perspective but you [4:13] also spend 50% of your time working with [4:15] atlassian customers on how to optimize [4:17] teams and so thank you for joining us um [4:20] Genevie uh you're from a&u you're the [4:23] first female Vice Chancellor and the [4:25] president of the University also a vice [4:27] president senior fellow at Intel best [4:30] work uh best known for your work on the [4:31] intersection of cultural practice [4:33] technology development and also a [4:35] leading voice on AI and so thank you for [4:37] joining us and Larry is the co-founder [4:41] and US chairman of zip a digital [4:43] financial services company offering [4:45] access to potery credit digital payment [4:48] services connecting millions of [4:50] customers with global networks of [4:51] thousands of [4:53] merchants so welcome I think we've got a [4:56] very diverse panel here of perspective [4:59] um it's hard to see you Dom like yeah we [5:02] got to out [5:04] way all right so let's let's start with [5:08] um you know what is what is the [5:10] opportunity but most importantly when we [5:13] think about what are the things that [5:14] Australian business can do today in [5:16] order to capitalize on the digital [5:19] opportunity over the next 5 to 10 years [5:21] um jenev do you have any um you know [5:24] starting thoughts yeah we obviously Drew [5:26] straw is behind stage and I lost uh look [5:29] I think for starting thoughts it's a [5:30] couple of things right it's really [5:32] tempting because Dom and I both trade in [5:34] the future to spend your time imagining [5:36] what you should do five and 10 years [5:37] from now but I think the reality is we [5:38] should be asking ourselves what should [5:40] businesses be doing today tomorrow and [5:42] the next day to in fact be in the world [5:44] not prepare for it as though it were [5:46] turning up somewhere else and I tend to [5:48] think there's usually a couple of things [5:49] that are really important and they're [5:50] really they they're really simple right [5:53] know what it is that is your business [5:55] know what your business model is be [5:57] really clear if you're adding technology [5:59] to it or want to automate it or augment [6:01] it through AI that you shouldn't just [6:03] augment what you have some of the worst [6:05] processes I'm sure any of us have ever [6:06] seen is when you just take because I'm [6:08] old you'll remember when we took forms [6:10] and put them online and we just copied [6:12] the forms and stuck them online and we [6:14] didn't think what are we trying to get [6:15] done here and there's a little bit about [6:17] being really clear about knowing what [6:19] your business is knowing what your [6:20] business models are and then thinking [6:22] about how technology can make that [6:24] better rather than saying I have [6:26] technology now I should use it so I [6:28] think it's a clarity [6:30] there's always a piece about do you have [6:31] the right capacity and capability and do [6:33] you have it in the right place in your [6:34] organization do your key decision makers [6:36] know how to ask the right questions so [6:39] do you have the right people around your [6:40] senior leadership table around your [6:41] border or your advisory table to be [6:43] asking is this a good idea and then [6:46] there's a little bit about making sure [6:47] you're clear about who you're building [6:49] dependencies with I tend to think when [6:51] you're bringing technology in you're [6:52] often bringing new relationships in and [6:54] so being clear about who those people [6:56] are do they share your values are they [6:58] bringing you new risks cuz Supply chains [7:00] and all that sort of stuff so that's for [7:02] me is kind of capability Talent capacity [7:05] clear about your business and clear [7:06] about who's in the room with you yeah it [7:09] is interesting on the distraction [7:10] because when we look at the digital [7:11] economy it is it's a technology [7:14] opportunity or technology it's an [7:16] opportunity enabled by technology but um [7:19] but what we've got to be careful doing [7:20] is deploying technology for technology [7:23] sake and assuming it's going to get us [7:25] there versus going back to the Crux of [7:27] the problem what are you trying to solve [7:29] and we make it into a fetish right no [7:30] one ran around saying the photocopier [7:32] economy or the fax economy or the [7:36] electricity economy and so there's a bit [7:38] here about trying to work out what [7:39] digital is doing for us in that way and [7:41] being really clear again about what's [7:42] the point of your business and making [7:44] sure that you are making that the [7:47] through line not the technology [7:49] itself just to sort of add to that I've [7:52] often said that a fool with a tool still [7:53] a fo You' just made them faster and and [7:55] I've worked with some proper fast idiots [7:57] in my time right um and and so there is [8:00] this this this hype where we're like oh [8:02] technology is going to fix everything AI [8:03] is going to fix everything technology [8:04] going to fix everything without [8:05] understanding the human element I think [8:07] when the specifically to your question [8:08] though there's two things I want to call [8:10] out one is if we over index on the [8:12] future we forget the past and the [8:13] present and and actually there is a [8:15] shitload we can learn from the past if [8:17] we hold on to it we become nostalgic we [8:19] fail right and I think we do that [8:21] sometimes we like oh remember yester [8:23] year the good old days you're like [8:24] they're not coming back so we need to [8:26] move on from that but don't forget the [8:27] things that we can learn from that [8:29] because huge lessons you can then apply [8:31] um the second point is I always enjoy [8:33] this idea of like the borderless [8:35] business and the minute someone thinks [8:36] that they're like the total addressable [8:38] market for my product is $50 trillion [8:41] and you're like it's not right you're [8:44] you're never going to get that so how do [8:46] you think more realistically about what [8:48] the opportunity is and the tension there [8:50] is borderless means I'm going to compete [8:52] globally that's more competition and [8:55] sometimes your your your customers want [8:56] localization they want personalization [8:58] and that trade offs really hard do I [9:00] operate in 150 markets and build 150 [9:03] versions of my products or I build one [9:05] version it works for everyone and by [9:06] working for everyone it works for no one [9:08] and I think that tension is something we [9:09] need to play out [9:11] yeah I'd probably just add I think we're [9:14] touching on um you know the the the the [9:17] rapid pace of Technology evolving um is [9:20] only accelerating so as businesses how [9:23] do you become just extremely agile and [9:26] sort of codify that and as you get [9:28] bigger it gets much harder I've seen [9:30] that with zip you know when he was small [9:31] it's much easier um how do you rapidly [9:35] experiment and I think what we saw with [9:37] Co really taught boards and management [9:40] teams how to be agile you actually need [9:42] that muscle um you need to be a lot of [9:45] the trends were actually already there I [9:47] think they just weren't being fed up to [9:49] management boards they weren't listening [9:50] all right um good examp do you think [9:52] that stayed CU I I feel like the forcing [9:54] function of Co was this like forced [9:57] experiment and then I I feel like some [9:58] of them have retreated and they've gone [10:00] back to 2017 not rather than pushing [10:02] forward to 2027 they've retreated to the [10:05] good old days again I think that's [10:06] probably true CU it's not a there was a [10:08] forcing function but that's why it's the [10:10] culture it's the engineering of culture [10:12] and you know culture eats strategy for [10:14] breakfast as they say every day of the [10:15] week so how do you build in um an [10:18] ability to be agile rapidly experiment [10:21] um experiment incredibly quickly in [10:23] Market live so that you can continually [10:25] be across the the trends and so I think [10:28] it's how do businesses get ready for [10:30] that so you can be adaptive to to any of [10:32] these you know changing changing Trends [10:34] I love that because you're actually not [10:36] suggesting hey you need to lean into [10:39] this Mega Trend right now what you're [10:40] saying is you need to lean into an [10:43] operating model and a and a mindset of [10:46] experimentation and getting ready to [10:49] adopt technology whatever it may be over [10:51] the next 5 to 10 years lean in and use [10:54] that as an accelerator and a Tailwind um [10:57] versus over fixating on hey there's this [10:59] trend right now and I better get on on [11:01] top of that so cuz no one can predict [11:02] the future that's what you've got to be [11:04] listening to the customers and and that [11:06] that voice of the customer needs to sort [11:07] of permeate all the way through the [11:09] organization and so having real-time [11:11] listing devices realtime experimentation [11:14] um and I think that's going to get [11:15] easier right and that some of the [11:16] technology will enable that the reason I [11:18] feel confident saying no one can predict [11:20] the future is I have Larry in between [11:21] the two work futurists on the other side [11:24] of the uh of the we don't predict [11:26] otherwi we get fired we don't predict we [11:28] just poate I was going to say we just [11:30] know yeah we just know we just know but [11:33] I mean I wouldn't want to lose the point [11:35] there right which is that the notion [11:38] that the technology won't actually solve [11:41] whatever the thing is that you're trying [11:42] to work through right so there's a bit [11:43] about imagining that technology will fix [11:45] the problems inside your business or [11:47] magically make your Market work I mean [11:49] there is the whole piece about knowing [11:50] again who your customers are what your [11:52] culture is and being really clear about [11:53] that because technology will only [11:55] amplify the things that are there it [11:56] won't actually magically fix any of them [11:58] yeah good point so in the opening I [12:01] talked about the the changing consumer [12:04] behaviors um there some generational [12:07] shifts in the way people want to pay for [12:08] goods and services you're obviously at [12:11] the the leading Forefront of that and so [12:14] you know where are you seeing the [12:15] opportunities how are the ways people [12:18] are wanting to pay change changing and [12:20] how is that impacting business all right [12:23] so switch from uh culture to to payments [12:26] it is a payments conference right um but [12:28] first of all I do want to thank you know [12:29] stripe we've been we've really built our [12:31] business off the back of stripe um and [12:34] uh America uh where we've been for 5 [12:36] years we've been over here for 10 years [12:37] and Stripes really enabled that [12:38] borderless um expansion so you know big [12:41] thank you to stripe and there's a lot [12:43] more to do uh but I think what we've [12:45] seen really um you know particularly in [12:47] the last few years is just the [12:48] acceleration of buy now pay later um and [12:51] what's happening is it's really skewing [12:53] as we know to sort of the genzi and [12:55] Millennial segment who really have an [12:57] aversion to credit card and and it's [13:00] been interesting to look at the data [13:01] between Australia and also the the US [13:04] and you've probably seen the [13:05] data over at CBA but um we've seen [13:09] actually interest bearing debt in in [13:11] Australia collapse 45% over the last 10 [13:15] 10 years um so it seems that Australia's [13:18] a little bit ahead we've got 6 million [13:19] Australians who who have used B now pay [13:21] later uh who pre who preference B [13:24] nowator over over credit cards um and in [13:28] America it's a little bit of a different [13:29] story actually um we've seen huge growth [13:32] in credit card debts actually up 50% [13:34] since the Nadar of of of Co um and uh [13:38] and so I think what's happening is that [13:41] 60 to 70% of the the millennial segments [13:43] are trusting buy out pay later as [13:45] alternative payments the trend though is [13:47] nothing unique I actually think B now p [13:50] is just another form of um Consumer [13:52] Finance we've seen markets like Brazil [13:55] turkey and Israel where installments are [13:58] are have are are the primary method and [14:01] um for retailers I mean if you look at [14:02] Australia 50% of some checkouts now [14:04] going through buy now pay later um so [14:08] the the trend is absolutely there but [14:10] again my my my comment to retailers is [14:13] listen listen to customers understand [14:15] how they want to pay when they want to [14:17] pay if a million customers come through [14:19] the door and want to pay with their left [14:20] hand you need to be able to meet that [14:22] need and offer left-hand payments right [14:25] and stripe can probably enable that yeah [14:27] well it might not be on the L but we can [14:29] add it I mean if you if you've got a [14:31] customer that wants to pay get out of [14:32] the way right like help them pay the way [14:35] they want to pay and don't make that [14:37] decision for them I think that um when [14:40] we look at uh checkout abandonment and [14:43] so you know for the benefit of the [14:44] audience we know that statistically in [14:46] an e-commerce World 70% of all carts go [14:49] abandoned which means that only 30% of [14:52] the carts that are filled actually turn [14:53] into a um a transaction we know that one [14:57] of the biggest drivers for abandonment [14:59] is that the most trusted or favorite [15:00] payment method is not available right [15:02] and so from a demographic perspective we [15:04] know that's becoming more and more in [15:06] these these next Generation Um payment [15:08] methods yeah um and I think you know for [15:11] us as well no longer a customers going [15:12] into Banks per se and signing up this [15:14] sort of decentralized financial services [15:17] embedded Financial Services meet the [15:19] customer where she is uh and so it's [15:22] been interesting to see businesses [15:23] really invest in the Payments Technology [15:25] layer to deliver across the Omni Channel [15:27] across the experience and so I think [15:30] those are some of the you know the big [15:31] the the big trends unifying the payments [15:35] um taking your preferred payment where [15:37] wherever you go but it is quite [15:39] remarkable that the little widget on the [15:41] product detail page disrupted online [15:43] Ecom disrupted um Omni Channel and now [15:46] Financial Services right and banks have [15:48] recognized that it is sort of the credit [15:51] card of tomorrow for the customer of [15:53] tomorrow um and then ultimately you need [15:55] to even though that's sort of how it [15:56] begins here in Australia we're trying [15:59] become the next generation of financial [16:01] services but that's about listening to [16:03] the customer and then what else what [16:05] else can we can we offer them so it's [16:07] really just a beginning of this [16:08] financial partnership it it'd be [16:10] fascinating to look at the human [16:11] behavior around that right so pretend [16:13] circle of trust pretend there's no one [16:14] here um so I abandon my car all the time [16:17] there's no one here um I abandon my car [16:20] all the time because I've learned the [16:21] behavior that if I abandon I get a [16:23] discount [16:25] code there so that actually is a [16:28] standard strategy for covering an [16:30] abandoned cover I've got Twins and [16:31] they're really expensive right so but I [16:33] I I do that as a t i pick what I want [16:35] through multiple fend and then I wait [16:36] for the email and which everyone comes [16:38] through I'm like I'll buy from you [16:39] because I know the end product is the [16:41] same so it's it's fascinating how [16:43] whenever we think about a technology [16:44] where we're making it easy for the [16:45] customer but there's also these weird [16:47] behaviors these unintended consequences [16:49] in the background that I think we always [16:50] need to look for whatever the like in [16:52] this example is payment in every example [16:53] we've looked at in the past you're like [16:55] that was the intention here's the [16:56] unintended door or maybe the consequence [16:58] we could have known if we'd been a [16:59] little bit more aware well and the whole [17:01] other piece of it right we classify it [17:03] as abandoned because we're thinking that [17:04] the transaction is the end point we also [17:07] know that thinking about and imagining [17:11] your relationship to a thing is partly [17:14] Fantastical right it's another form of [17:16] recreation it's another form of f of [17:19] fantasizing and so the notion that you [17:21] might stick it in a cart and never look [17:22] at it again is about because in that [17:23] moment in time you thought maybe I will [17:25] wear those red leather pants Dom um [17:29] still got them still got them indeed and [17:31] then you wise up and think maybe I won't [17:34] and it was certainly I mean a million [17:35] years ago we saw a lot of stuff as [17:38] companies were trying to work out how to [17:42] go from youve abandoned it to maybe we [17:44] want to reconnect and before we'd worked [17:45] out the Dom strategy there was a period [17:47] of time where abandoned carts would [17:48] follow you across the internet and so [17:50] the thing in the cart would be on the [17:52] next web page you clicked on and we did [17:54] a lot of work with consumers who were [17:55] like this is so creepy why are the shoes [17:57] following me and it was just really oh [18:00] my God why are they still here I think [18:02] it was a sort of a period of time and [18:04] I'm I'm always really struck with it [18:05] when we think about evolving payment [18:07] methods that what's also Happening Here [18:09] is we are going through an evolution in [18:11] how we think about what is shopping [18:13] right it once was quite pragmatic [18:14] acquire good because necessary there's [18:17] now a whole other layer of imagining [18:19] myself in that experience or this is in [18:21] fact an experiential activity not really [18:23] an acquisition of goods activity and how [18:26] the payment system sort of sit behind [18:27] all that's been an transformation too [18:30] right yeah I think it's uh I mean with [18:33] with the data that's being generated uh [18:36] with all your creepy browsing [18:38] activity um not creepy it's just shoes [18:41] it's just shoes just shoes Manas um but [18:44] like a world of personalized shopping [18:46] right a world where you go to and see [18:48] things that fit you that match your [18:50] Styles maybe Dynamic pricing all of this [18:53] will soon be you know you'll have the [18:55] the shop for genev that's just around [18:57] the corner yeah but look we've been [18:58] being that fantasy since the first time [19:02] we talked about the I mean that's share [19:05] and clueless that's every movie I can [19:07] think of where the fan sort of the the [19:09] image is going to be is just the stuff I [19:11] want and the reality is in lots of [19:12] places when you are acquiring things [19:15] it's not always about what you want it's [19:17] about as a zone of experimentation right [19:19] so in fact it being totally personalized [19:20] is in some ways counterintuitive to the [19:22] activity that people are enacting they [19:24] actually don't want to be the thing that [19:26] the algorithm already knows me to be but [19:28] something else and so I often wonder [19:30] about what happens on the end level of [19:32] those kind of recommendation engines [19:34] where it's actually thing we know about [19:36] humans right I want the same thing the [19:38] same thing the same thing oh my God I'm [19:40] totally bored I want something entirely [19:42] different and how you go from a [19:45] recommendation that's about familiarity [19:47] to something that's slightly [19:49] discomforting is in some ways the [19:50] sequence about how we manufacture taste [19:52] and everything else like movies music [19:54] all that stuff sorry so it's more of a [19:57] hybrid world yes a that's that's [19:59] interesting so we're out of control you [20:02] should [20:02] [Music] [20:04] stop um I'm going to go back to [20:07] something that Dom that you went down um [20:10] earlier around the concept of going [20:12] global I think you said something like [20:14] if you might be focused on 150 markets [20:16] but then actually you may not be focused [20:17] on any and so you know at stripe we know [20:21] as part of our customer base here in [20:22] Australia about 30% of them are doing [20:24] some form of crossb Commerce because we [20:27] know that the the domestic um [20:29] opportunity in Australia and even more [20:31] so in New Zealand is just comparatively [20:33] smaller from a digital trade perspective [20:36] compared to say North America right um [20:39] and so a lot of those Merchants are [20:40] forced to look abroad in order to get a [20:42] larger market opportunity um but like [20:45] what's your perspective around doing [20:47] that from Australia innovating from [20:49] Australia to capture the world um as [20:53] someone who's lived here for 21 years [20:55] and plans to stay I I I love it as an [20:58] intent and I think it's dangerous right [21:01] I I love the intent when you go um how [21:03] might we what could we do where could we [21:05] reach if you look at the atlassian [21:07] business model our entire business model [21:08] has been selling digital products either [21:10] via CD ROM right or download and server [21:13] or or in the cloud for 20 odd years so [21:15] from day one with a staff of two our [21:17] co-founders we could reach 160 countries [21:20] in the world right and that's paid huge [21:22] dividends um and so when you see it as [21:24] an opportunity I think it's great I I [21:26] think the minute we think to domestic [21:28] like how do we from here reach that we [21:30] actually miss the opportunity so if I [21:32] think about one of our biggest victories [21:34] as a company in the last probably three [21:36] or four years was our approach to hiring [21:38] anyone anywhere right so actually our [21:41] talent acquisition pipeline Changed by [21:44] going we don't have to hire in Sydney [21:46] San Francisco Tokyo right New York the [21:49] most expensive places in the world we [21:51] can hire anyone from anywhere and we can [21:52] work in a distributed fashion so our [21:55] access to a talent pool changed if we'd [21:57] have gone how do we hire more people in [21:58] Australia we would have missed out on [22:00] the size of the prize so I think to [22:03] gen's point before it's finding the [22:05] things we do uniquely well here and and [22:07] capitalizing on that but not at the [22:09] detriment of a global scale so my best [22:11] example here is the government every [22:13] time I talk to a politician which I try [22:14] and limit the amount of times I do it um [22:17] they tell me they're like we need [22:18] legislation for Australia on X right and [22:20] it's on AI right and you're like how how [22:23] how do you legislate a thing that exists [22:25] globally because if you legislate it [22:27] differently to every other country our [22:28] in you've added a tax to how I work and [22:31] so we've always got this friction of [22:33] what do we do locally versus what do we [22:35] do globally and I think ultimately it [22:37] comes down to how how can you support [22:39] that model right if you're going to go [22:41] Global can you support that model and [22:42] how if you're going to hire globally how [22:44] are you going to support that model [22:46] because whatever you choose to do you [22:47] need to be able to back it up and that's [22:48] the the thing people miss out on they're [22:50] like it's great I can operate in 190 [22:51] countries you now need to support your [22:53] product in 190 countries what does that [22:55] mean yeah so it's the follow through [22:57] that people Miss they they see the first [22:59] prize they see the dollars they see the [23:00] transaction not the how do I sustain [23:02] that business and I think that's the [23:04] thing we need to to anchor on yeah just [23:06] on the um it's a little bit off topic [23:08] but it was aligned to what you just said [23:09] around the the talent pools I'm just [23:12] interested when you traditionally go to [23:14] a job site and you advertise there is a [23:16] like a job location right but but I love [23:19] the talk track around we expanding [23:21] access to Talent if we diversify out of [23:23] the concentrated centers and maybe go [23:26] into hey Regional Australia or something [23:28] like that right like how how do you [23:30] advertise there do you do you pick a [23:32] regional center or do you say just it's [23:34] fully flexible across Australia how just [23:37] how does that work out of Interest yeah [23:38] combination of two so so we try and work [23:40] on a Halo and and the Halo is not [23:41] geography it's time zone so wherever you [23:44] work we want some level of overlap like [23:46] we work on a 4-Hour overlap for our [23:48] teams right if you don't have some [23:50] overlap you're working purely [23:51] asynchronously you lose connection [23:53] that's bad right uh you don't all [23:54] physically need to be in an office but [23:55] we need to be in a similar time zone so [23:57] we look at regions and so we advertise [23:59] for jobs in Australia if you're in [24:00] Melbourne Perth right Sydney I don't [24:03] care where you are you do where you you [24:05] live your best life where you are and if [24:07] I let you do that you're going to turn [24:09] up to work infinitely better than me [24:11] forcing you into a physical concrete [24:12] space in Sydney right or anywhere else [24:15] so very soon after the pandemic our [24:17] biggest location that didn't have an [24:20] office with Melbourne we had 430 people [24:22] in Melbourne and we've never had an [24:23] office there we opened one for the first [24:25] time two months ago but we had 430 [24:27] people who were self-sufficient without [24:29] having access to an office so we can [24:31] hire them where they are that the [24:33] investment you then have to make is how [24:34] you work because you haven't got the [24:36] free proximity of the three of us [24:38] hanging out being by the same water [24:40] cooler so you miss that Fidelity [24:42] conversation you have to replace that on [24:44] purpose otherwise you work very [24:46] transactionally yeah interesting I was [24:48] just going to add Dom you know we've uh [24:50] if if I look at zip in Australia and in [24:52] the US they've they've grown quite [24:54] differently right Australia was very in [24:57] the office get together on the [24:59] Whiteboard solve problems was America [25:01] really grew um under Co remote and so [25:04] it's been amazing to watch how the [25:06] problem solving how folks get together [25:09] it's sort of asynchronous communication [25:11] lots of [25:12] documentation um very effective but like [25:15] a very different way of it's a [25:16] completely different muscle totally [25:18] different muscle it's one of those [25:19] things like you made a segement before [25:20] Carl about you yeah you've got to be [25:22] nimble right you got to be agile the [25:23] statements are so easy to make and [25:25] bloody hard to do so you're like [25:27] asynchronous communication you're like [25:28] yeah that makes sense it's a really hard [25:31] muscle to actually [25:33] practice cool so just the conversation [25:37] there yeah I mean I was also just [25:39] thinking about you know so sitting in [25:40] between two companies I run a university [25:42] right and I think about the fact that [25:45] while we can talk about education being [25:47] asynchronous and remote the reality is [25:50] we know you learn more in a physical [25:51] classroom not just from your instructor [25:54] but from your peers we know you learn [25:56] from your body not just your brain and [25:58] so there's been a bit for us about I [26:00] watched the moment when our students [26:02] could be back in the classrooms and back [26:04] on campus and it was extraordinary right [26:06] the kind of the just the the the feeling [26:09] of the place when it woke up again it [26:11] was like something out of a really quite [26:13] sickly sweet fairy tale right where [26:14] suddenly the whole thing just came back [26:16] and it was remarkable and it was [26:18] something I think [26:20] about you're right Dom about the if [26:23] you're going to not be in person what [26:25] you have to invest in in terms of [26:27] scalable culture in terms of rituals in [26:30] terms of touch points in terms of things [26:32] that seem profoundly intangible and [26:34] frankly feel like nice to haves or not [26:37] good Roi when you actually watch people [26:40] physically back together you realize [26:41] that there's all this stuff about just [26:43] being near someone that establishes [26:46] trust and care and there's some [26:49] extraordinary ways that people get a [26:51] little deskilled when they're not [26:52] physically co-present that's really [26:54] interesting in terms of how you learn to [26:56] argue properly how do you have [26:57] productive discomfort how do you learn [26:59] to litigate an idea cuz it's really easy [27:01] to shut it down when it's on a screen [27:03] and you lose things in that and I think [27:04] there a little bit about it's easy to [27:06] get flame Wars online right than it is [27:08] and and not easy to teach people that [27:11] it's actually hugely important to have [27:13] those kind of an Intel we used to call [27:14] them um constructive confrontations [27:16] right where you're arguing the idea till [27:18] you get to a shared truth and I think [27:20] that's much even as the technology has [27:22] gotten remarkably good yeah that is a [27:24] little bit harder to do so I'm I'm with [27:26] you we we we do as as Statue we do [27:28] intentional togetherness we we get our [27:29] teams together in person you can work [27:31] wherever you want but we get you [27:32] together kind of four times a year and [27:34] our connection score and our engagement [27:36] Ser goes through the roof yeah in the [27:37] following three months just slowly drips [27:39] down you're like we're getting you back [27:41] together so so it's never going to fall [27:42] off a cliff you build enough connective [27:44] tissue but you're doing such high [27:46] fidelity stuff that's an in-person [27:47] activity not everything that we do every [27:49] day is is that High Fidelity so it's fun [27:51] in that mix yeah I think I mean it's [27:54] just going to be different for different [27:55] roles different businesses [27:59] and thinking about the difference [28:00] between what is a task versus what is so [28:03] tasks inside a [28:04] job easier to think about doing [28:08] asynchronously remotely but places where [28:10] it's generative where it needs to be [28:12] sustained where it is in some ways about [28:15] a conversation that unfolds over an arc [28:17] of time even the digital versions of [28:19] those don't work as well I think that's [28:20] why you know investing in bringing [28:22] people together I did I got really [28:24] fatigued during Co doing strategy [28:27] workshops on Zoom [28:30] actually there's bio there's biophysical [28:32] reasons for that so two two things the [28:36] frame refresh rate on screens particular [28:38] on laptop screens refreshes more slowly [28:40] than your eyes do and so your brain is [28:43] constantly trying to fit in between the [28:44] pixels in the refresh rate on your [28:46] screen and it turns out when someone is [28:48] this close to you only one or two things [28:50] is going to [28:53] happen wow I've a lot of you today and [28:57] and it turns out both of those create a [28:59] really high adrenal reaction in you and [29:01] so that sense of unsurprisingly that [29:03] makes a lot of sense it and so that that [29:06] sense of that sense of fatigue was that [29:08] we were basically constantly trying to [29:10] fill in information that our brain [29:11] thought was missing whilst having all [29:13] these faces really close to us and it [29:16] was exhausting and not the people you [29:17] want it's not the ones you want I don't [29:19] know the two of you God never thought me [29:21] that way yeah but that's why you were [29:23] tired there you go I wish I knew that I [29:25] did buy eight oculi Oculus for the [29:29] executive team um so we could sit in the [29:31] Horizon work but did that help no we [29:34] didn't get we had one one chap who [29:37] wasn't interested in it so that you know [29:39] lowest common denominator broke it and [29:41] and yet again you've lost control no [29:44] this is exactly what's meant to be [29:46] happening like this is the end of the [29:48] day make them [29:51] stop let's bring it back onto topic [29:54] shall we um so geneveve uh it would be [29:58] remissive me to not go down the AI path [30:01] if you're here on the panel okay we're [30:03] not going to talk about large language [30:04] models um well I mentioned it so maybe [30:06] we will um but so do you think [30:10] Australian [30:11] businesses are equipped to take [30:13] advantage of the opportunities that AI [30:15] offer look it's a big topic and you Dom [30:19] and I both sit in lots of conversations [30:20] where people worry about you know is [30:22] Australia being left out of the AI race [30:24] whatever that might be you know what is [30:27] that and I three things I think are [30:28] really important in this conversation [30:30] number one is being really clear about [30:32] what we mean when we talk about AI you [30:34] know are we just talking about process [30:36] Improvement and automation are we [30:38] talking about some kind of generative AI [30:40] system that's creating new things you [30:43] know are we talking about some form of [30:44] machine learning and my suspicion [30:47] because I have certainly sat in those [30:48] meetings people turn up and go I have [30:50] some AI for you you think what is that [30:53] uh so there's a little bit about being [30:54] really clear about what we're talking [30:55] about that said Australia has some [30:58] extraordinary centers of excellence [30:59] around AI both in the academic and [31:01] University space so we have invested [31:05] over nearly 15E cycle in computer vision [31:07] in Australia so helping computational [31:09] objects recognize the world around them [31:11] and do things as a result of that we [31:13] have really strong capacity in machine [31:16] learning some some of the building block [31:19] pieces of that puzzle were developed in [31:20] Australia and we have some extraordinary [31:22] Talent we also have it sitting inside [31:25] places like CRA so our com you know the [31:27] kind of national Labs we also have [31:29] industries that are not usually in the [31:32] list that you think about when you go [31:33] there's a big AI industry so my [31:37] colleagues we have a futurist colleague [31:39] we we probably don't know in well but we [31:40] have a futurist colleague uh who sits in [31:42] the very large agricultural Machinery [31:45] business in the United States so [31:46] caterpillar and John Deere right and [31:49] they want to come to Australia so badly [31:52] because in karra in Western Australia [31:54] the mining sites there have the largest [31:56] deployments in the world of and fully [31:58] autonomous vehicles not cars but mine [32:01] trucks that are the size of this stage [32:03] running around like entire mining sites [32:06] and our mining and mineral extraction [32:08] industry has some of the largest [32:10] deployments of fullscale AI anywhere on [32:12] the planet and the same with our banks [32:14] well while my friend here may be trying [32:16] to undermine and remove Banks I [32:19] understand that uh it turns out our [32:20] banks are still the largest AI companies [32:23] in Australia they have the largest data [32:25] sets they have the biggest workloads [32:26] they are doing the most interesting [32:28] things with it both from the kind of [32:30] more traditional classic pieces but my [32:33] colleagues at CBA in the AI groups there [32:37] multiple years ago now worked out that [32:39] people were using micro payment tools so [32:42] sitting inside the mobile phone apps [32:44] basically we using micro payments as a [32:47] way to harass people so they were using [32:49] it as a way of engaging in gender-based [32:51] harassment so in sending a payment to my [32:55] ex putting a piece of [32:58] horribleness in the micro piece and the [33:02] banks worked that out and we were able [33:03] to create a series of scripts that held [33:06] those payments back and started to [33:08] expunge that as a vector of attack right [33:11] and I think about that and I think [33:12] that's a a whole other way of think [33:13] about what a AI can do and a whole other [33:15] sector in it so look I think there's a [33:17] place where we imagine AI is just big [33:19] American tech companies and occasionally [33:21] big European tech companies and a couple [33:23] of big Chinese tech companies but the [33:25] reality is there's AI in all kinds of [33:27] things and in Australia Precision egg [33:29] mining Banking and to a lesser extent in [33:32] things like um the Bureau of meteorology [33:35] and the ABS are places where Australia [33:38] is actually leading the world [33:40] fascinating just um to add to that [33:43] because we' we've we've had hot debates [33:44] on this before I think as we approach [33:46] this topic if if we forget the utopian [33:48] window dressing of AI for a minute and [33:50] just be be realistic I think there's two [33:52] questions we need to ask ourselves one [33:54] is why and the other one is why not we [33:57] we ask why because we talk about the [33:58] tech is this it's going to solve the [33:59] world without going why like why are we [34:01] trying to use it for For What and we've [34:04] we've debated before like when you see a [34:05] genuine use case you're like ah finally [34:08] uh I saw one recently we've laughed [34:10] about this before like if you write four [34:11] bullet points you ask the AI to expand [34:14] that to a long pros and you do and I [34:16] send it to you and you hit the button to [34:17] summarize it to four bullet points like [34:20] what's the [ __ ] point right um that [34:23] that's that's the wrong why right so I I [34:25] think we really need to ask why are we [34:26] doing this what what is the end what's [34:28] the intent and when we do that like at [34:30] lasan we argue all the time normally on [34:32] a whiteboard virtual or in person like [34:33] why are we doing this what is the use [34:35] case how does it benefit the the end [34:36] user that that's really important the [34:38] why not is what might go wrong in doing [34:40] this and I don't want that to paralyze [34:43] us I want it to mean that we look at [34:44] this and do it consciously because I [34:46] think otherwise we'll go hellbent on [34:48] this is awesome it's going to save the [34:49] world and then a few years go ah I was [34:52] there when we lit that blue touch paper [34:54] and it didn't go so well so I I think [34:56] not that I wanted to be pessimistic I [34:58] just think we need to be rounded and [34:59] constantly ask ourselves why and why not [35:01] so we rolled out earlier this year our [35:04] responsible Tech guidelines of how we're [35:07] thinking about rolling out AI in [35:08] atlassian and literally thousands of [35:10] customers ofin are going we need that [35:12] and you're like no here it is it's for [35:13] free but what were you doing before what [35:16] was your stream of consciousness of is [35:17] this the right thing to do or not and [35:19] like well it's Tech we're just doing it [35:21] anyway so so I think we need that why [35:23] and the why not to just have the [35:24] counterbalance of thinking about doing [35:26] this consciously not by accident and the [35:28] emerging kind of category of risk [35:30] exactly but dependency or consequence [35:33] that we haven't really talked about a [35:34] lot in the AI space was been a lot of [35:36] time talking about how to have [35:38] responsible AI how to engage in a way [35:40] that is you know ethically appropriate [35:42] which is of course really complicated [35:43] because ethics are contingent and [35:45] cultural and you know change over time [35:46] and look different in different places [35:48] so you can't hardwire them but the kind [35:50] of [35:52] emerging information we now have has to [35:55] do with how much energy is required to [35:57] do some of these AI Solutions so if you [35:59] look at the annual reports that have [36:01] come out of key companies like Microsoft [36:03] and Google over the last two years [36:05] they've had to talk about their increase [36:07] in energy budget and their increase in [36:08] water budget so for Microsoft it's been [36:10] 20 to 30% increase in their energy [36:12] budget year on year and Google similar [36:15] for water because it turns out all that [36:17] AI is happening somewhere or is that [36:20] nice little sticker that used to be on [36:21] my computer the cloud is just someone [36:23] else's computer and it turns out that [36:24] computer wants a lot of electricity and [36:26] all the water and so if you are using [36:30] chat [36:30] GPT to harass him you should stop yeah [36:34] summarize [36:36] four whatever whatever Flore you tour in [36:39] with chat GPT underneath every time you [36:42] use a you know you're using chat GPT in [36:43] Australia it is running through undersee [36:45] cables all the way to Ohio and coming [36:47] all the way back and that server Farm in [36:49] Ohio is using an extraordinary amount of [36:51] energy best calculation any of our [36:53] colleagues can get to is it's about half [36:55] a liter water for 20 prompt [36:58] wow and you know well we can think well [37:00] that's their [37:01] water kind of it's a terrible way of [37:03] thinking it's ultimately all of our [37:05] water and as Services migrate into [37:08] Australia and we build more server Farms [37:10] here and we are in what is a sustained [37:13] you know energy transition and frankly [37:14] challenging energy environment to Dom's [37:17] earlier question about is that actually [37:19] the right solution feels like a more [37:21] pressing one in a different kind of way [37:22] right not just should you do it but if [37:25] you've done it to what's the consequence [37:28] it is interesting isn't it like it's [37:29] this invisible [37:31] dependency that most of us aren't [37:33] thinking about I think when you describe [37:35] it it's quite logical and makes a lot of [37:38] sense um but it's not top of mind I [37:40] don't think generally when we're [37:41] thinking about the adoption of [37:43] Technology the expansion of that and [37:45] then capitalizing on the opportunity [37:47] like sausages excuse me if you look at [37:50] our honestly it's the same with sausages [37:52] Jamie Oliver did a show years ago about [37:54] sausages and how they're made and I [37:55] didn't eat them for like a year it's [37:57] same thing we're very convenient I'm [37:59] joking but it's very convenient like [38:00] when you think I love sausages but when [38:01] you eat them and you just eat them as a [38:03] sausage you don't mind or when you [38:04] consume AI like this is fine when you [38:06] know how much water and electricity uses [38:08] you know behind the scenes you're like [38:09] oh I probably wouldn't do it as much [38:11] right so I I think we need to be a [38:12] little more a bit more Curious maybe not [38:14] about sausages but a bit more curious [38:15] about how technology works and the flip [38:17] and the flip is true too right so you [38:18] know you and I have talked about this [38:20] before but there's a little bit as [38:22] consumers as Citizens as businesses we [38:25] ask things all the time of our providers [38:27] I'm sure you ask stripe things all the [38:29] time I bet people ask atlassian things [38:31] all the time about how to better meet [38:34] your needs and there's a little bit here [38:36] where asking for the needs to be better [38:38] met is also about saying look we care [38:40] about things being ethical and [38:42] responsible absolutely but we should [38:43] care about them being sustainable too [38:45] and our businesses will be sustainable [38:47] because we're on a planet that we can [38:48] still live on and so there's a bit there [38:50] about starting to demand of all of our [38:52] various kind of Partners as we travel as [38:54] businesses as organizations as [38:56] universities that we are [38:59] thinking expansively about what we're [39:03] delivering or donate sausages yeah great [39:07] sausages are a good analogy really for [39:09] me they were I'm Northern English it's a [39:10] great analogy I thought I thought it [39:11] worked yeah yeah um Dom so you spend 50% [39:17] of your time with um with businesses [39:20] that are atasan customers in order to [39:22] unleash the power of teams and I'm [39:25] wondering if you can maybe share like [39:27] what's a common misstep that you come [39:30] across right so maybe you know as a core [39:33] learning yeah I I I'll give you I'll [39:35] give you three quickly uh one is uh [39:38] there's been a kind of a fetish recently [39:40] of if we paint a picture of the future [39:42] it'll magically just appear W without [39:44] realizing the role of leadership is and [39:46] gener people like facing to today what [39:49] is the reality of your business today [39:51] and how can you make one degree [39:52] improvements to that have a painted [39:54] picture for your destination but don't [39:56] over fixate on that fin the to do today [39:58] and there's um there's a pragmatism in [40:00] that that I find quite rewarding because [40:01] it's about doing it's not about [40:03] analyzing or say like roll your sleeve [40:05] and get on with it and not enough [40:06] businesses are doing that uh the second [40:07] one is is an overreliance on Consultants [40:10] um I'll pay someone else to do that and [40:12] I don't think Consultants are bad for [40:14] for advice but if you paying them to do [40:16] the task for you they're almost never [40:17] going to solve it they will charge you [40:18] $40 million as an annuity to come and [40:21] tell you how to do it and I've seen this [40:23] in the world of agile transformation in [40:24] the last 20 years right agile [40:26] transformation culture trans [40:27] transformation digital transformation [40:29] where the consultant comes in with some [40:30] glorious PowerPoint slides and you're [40:32] like $40 million later and I've still [40:34] got some PowerPoint slides um and and [40:36] that's hard right um and then the third [40:39] one is you know you know PowerPoint is [40:40] free right I know but not if you go to [40:43] McKenzie um but the the the third one is [40:47] is this this strange belief that [40:50] everything's about tech and we're [40:52] forgetting about the human element the [40:54] the best businesses I work with right [40:56] now are doing simple things with humans [40:59] human behavior um how they work as [41:01] individuals how they work in teams how [41:03] they work across teams they're doing [41:05] that in a very human form and using Tech [41:07] to amplify it and when I see that happen [41:09] I'm like stand back you are thriving [41:11] you're you're Nimble to Larry's Point [41:12] you're you're listening you've got the [41:14] learning velocity uh you're adaptable um [41:17] you just you're doing the simple things [41:19] right and they've not overbaked it and [41:20] and I think in the current economy [41:22] there's a real moment right now of going [41:24] if we do that stuff simply it could be [41:27] really effective so I think the way we [41:28] do it ated lassan is quite simple we [41:30] share our ways of working online we've [41:31] got this team Playbook where we publish [41:33] all of our ways of working online and we [41:35] get millions of people a year ago and [41:36] that was really helpful none of it's [41:37] rocket science and none of it's based on [41:39] technology it's like how do you as [41:41] humans find a way of working better [41:42] together then amplify that through Tech [41:45] I think that is our secret Source in the [41:47] next 15 20 years it's being more human [41:49] and letting the technology do the [41:51] technology thing well and the reason I [41:52] say more human I don't think we've been [41:54] very human in the last 15 20 years I [41:56] think we've been trying to compare [41:57] compete with technology and we need to [41:58] take a step back don't compete with it [42:00] we're uniquely human and that's uniquely [42:02] tech and and do what you do well and and [42:04] like that play out yeah I love that I [42:06] mean businesses are made up of people [42:09] and so lean into that and get the most [42:10] out of the people and don't forget about [42:12] them yeah that's nice all right so we're [42:15] we're running a little low on time and [42:17] so I thought let's close out with a a [42:19] bit of a view of the future and so [42:23] um why should we have optimism for the [42:26] future here for Australian business we [42:28] might we start with you [42:30] Larry um I mean I think I think one of [42:33] the uh interesting trends for me coming [42:36] coming coming up is just uh open data [42:39] and open open everything right [42:41] Australia's really you know been a a [42:43] Pioneer a leader in uh the consumer data [42:46] rights I'm imagining a world where the [42:49] customer is actually going to have an [42:51] amazing time over the next 10 years [42:53] because the intensity of competition [42:56] that's going to level up here from we're [42:59] going to have this sort of private data [43:01] Cloud you know our own sort of private [43:03] sanctuary of you know Healthcare data [43:05] financial data Mobility data and the [43:07] ability to consent to share that with [43:09] different service providers uh to get a [43:12] better outcome um I think is just going [43:14] to be unbelievable um you know 10 years [43:16] ago zip started by looking at bank data [43:19] as a way to offer a better Financial [43:21] Service uh so I'm really encouraged by [43:24] this open everything world and uh I [43:26] think the the customer got a lot a lot [43:28] to look forward to uh sharing my [43:31] mobility and wellness data to get [43:33] cheaper insurance so I think businesses [43:35] therefore going to have to be able to [43:36] digest that data build business logic [43:38] around interpreting it offering Dynamic [43:41] products more tailored products um so [43:43] everyone's going to have to sort of sit [43:45] up a little bit but the customer is [43:46] going to get a hell of a great time [43:48] everyone just sat up being a little [43:50] actually yeah awesome Jenna oh things to [43:54] be optimistic about look much like Dom I [43:58] get asked all the time if I'm optimistic [44:00] or pessimistic about the future and I [44:02] always think about uh Alan K early [44:06] computer scientist right who said the [44:08] only way to think about the future is to [44:10] build it and so I tend to think that the [44:13] way to be optimistic or determined about [44:15] the future is to have a point of view [44:17] about it and I'm lucky I was raised by [44:19] people who believe that [44:21] the your energy should be spent making [44:23] the world a better place and that it [44:25] should be better because it was more [44:26] fair more sustainable able more [44:27] Equitable more just and it shouldn't [44:29] just be better for you it should be [44:30] better for everyone and that you had an [44:32] obligation a moral obligation in fact to [44:35] work toward that every day and while [44:37] that may not be about technology per se [44:39] I tend to think that orientation to what [44:41] the future could be better than today [44:43] because we deliberately decide to make [44:45] it so because we are acting toward that [44:48] not as Dom says kind of just waiting for [44:50] it to turn up for me feels like a a good [44:54] yeah make it happen I'm lucky enough to [44:56] be somewhere where I will help make the [44:59] next generation of critical thinkers and [45:01] critical doers that's pretty good yeah [45:03] bring the future forward [45:05] exactly um I might flip your question [45:08] Carl because I don't know if I am [45:09] optimistic and and I want to be honest [45:10] with my answer I'm not pessimistic [45:12] either um I've got two Post-it notes on [45:13] my screen right now that are my current [45:15] mantras uh one is uh less Furious more [45:20] Curious it's taking a lot of [45:22] practice um because because I react [45:25] right and I get F and I might actually [45:26] right now my job is to be curious [45:28] because I I don't know if I am [45:29] optimistic but whether I am or not is is [45:31] less important I need to be curious [45:32] about what's happening why is it [45:33] happening what like how does it work so [45:35] curiosity goes a long way uh the second [45:37] one second post it though is argue like [45:39] you're right and listen like you're [45:40] wrong which is kind of similar but it's [45:42] me saying I need to have a point of view [45:44] that I put forward with Vigor and then I [45:46] really need to shut my mouth and open my [45:47] ears because I'm not trying to convert [45:49] people to my way I'm trying to open up a [45:51] conversation and when I remind myself [45:53] I'm trying to have a conversation I'm [45:55] listening with the intent to learn more [45:57] versus if I'm trying to convert someone [45:58] I'm like Larry is wrong it's a matter of [46:00] time till he realizes and that's a very [46:02] that's untrue he's not wrong but if I [46:04] have that mindset I listen very [46:06] differently right so so it's argue like [46:08] you're right listen like you're wrong so [46:10] have an opinion but but absorb everyone [46:12] else's opinion as well and then instead [46:14] of being Furious just just be curious I [46:16] think if we're curious and rounded I [46:18] think I think what will happen will be [46:19] more optimistic but I don't think [46:21] optimism will get us there yeah and I [46:23] mean it's a nice tieback I think in a [46:25] way back to what Larry's talked about [46:27] around uh a way of working a mindset [46:30] right being open to Opportunities and [46:33] being curious means that you're always [46:35] going out there and being open to what [46:37] those opportunities are and not being [46:39] too opinionated too early so wonderful [46:42] panel um everyone let's give our [46:44] panelists a round of applause [46:48] [Music]