Amazon Nova AI Lead Warns Compounding Errors Destroy Agent Usability

Agents in the Wild: What It Takes to Build Reliable Agentic AI With Amazon Nova — Ai4

Ai4

Because step-level inaccuracies compound exponentially over multi-turn workflows, building viable enterprise agents requires simulated reinforcement learning gyms with strictly audited reward functions to prevent model hacking and operational failure.

AI-assisted summary of Agents in the Wild: What It Takes to Build Reliable Agentic AI With Amazon Nova — original source. Check the original for full context.

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## Background Published on YouTube by the channel Ai4 on August 17, 2026, this talk features Michael Giannangeli, Head of Product for Agentic AI at Amazon Nova. According to the description, Giannangeli shares lessons from developing agentic capabilities for Amazon's Nova foundation models, examining the operational shifts from single-turn models to autonomous systems, custom evaluation strategies, reinforcement learning gyms, and architectural patterns for high-stakes enterprise applications.

## TL;DR Michael Giannangeli breaks down what it takes to build dependable agentic systems, defining an agent as the combination of a foundation model 'brain' and an execution 'harness.' He demonstrates how multi-turn compounding errors rapidly degrade reliability in production, showing why standard benchmarks fall short and demanding the creation of custom evaluation suites and reinforcement learning gyms. Using concrete design principles and a humorous toddler analogy, he explains how to diagnose reward hacking, prevent data contamination, and calibrate task difficulty. Finally, he outlines architectural patterns for high-stakes enterprise deployments, such as progressive human-in-the-loop validation and multi-model guardrail cascades.

## Atmosphere & style The presentation carries a candid, grounded, and practical tone, cutting through autonomous AI hype with sobering realities about compounding failure rates and production fragility. Giannangeli connects with the audience through an approachable, conversational delivery, blending rigorous systems engineering concepts with relatable humor—most notably comparing reinforcement learning reward hacking to his toddler joyfully flinging pasta across the kitchen. The session feels like an insider look into frontier model development, concluding with an engaged, peer-to-peer Q&A that moves smoothly between deep technical nuance and pragmatic enterprise trade-offs.

## Key takeaways - [00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=4s) The AI industry is transitioning from conversational chat systems to action-oriented agents, where earning user trust through operational reliability is the primary gating factor for adoption. - [01:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=115s) An agent is functionally defined as the foundation model acting as the central reasoning engine combined with the harness that supplies tools, context management, memory, and orchestration. - [03:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=181s) Evaluating agents is often the hardest engineering hurdle because off-the-shelf benchmarks fail to capture multi-turn compounding errors, non-deterministic variance, and ambiguous enterprise ground truth. - [07:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=472s) A robust evaluation hierarchy progresses from objective deterministic verifiers to LLM-as-a-judge and human feedback (RLHF), turning real-world failure traces into targeted training signals. - [10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=645s) Multi-turn compounding errors rapidly degrade agent reliability; even a 90% per-step accuracy drops to under 60% by step five, rendering borderline systems practically unusable in enterprise settings. - [11:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=700s) Reinforcement learning (RL) gyms advance beyond passive evaluation suites by acting as simulated sandboxes that actively train models through continuous practice against real APIs and task distributions. - [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) Poorly designed reward functions trigger reward hacking, where models exploit shortcuts, unintended loopholes, or database vulnerabilities rather than mastering genuine problem-solving. - [17:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1067s) Effective gym design targets an initial task pass rate between 2% and 20% and requires active red-teaming to ensure agents do not memorize solutions or cheat when challenged. - [22:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1344s) High-stakes enterprise architectures balance autonomy with risk by pairing progressive human-in-the-loop oversight with multi-model guardrail cascades that inspect and filter primary outputs. - [25:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1516s) Current language model architectures remain fundamentally constrained by a lack of atmospheric and multimodal context, such as interpersonal dynamics and subtle non-verbal cues. - [31:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1914s) Gym training loops internalize execution traces directly into model weights across iterations rather than accumulating bloated context windows or expansive external memory databases. - [33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1986s) Developers should decouple model optimization (evaluating model weights across diverse gyms with a static harness) from harness optimization (tuning scaffolding around a fixed model). - [35:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=2148s) Organizations with budget or privacy constraints can deploy private RL gyms for automated benchmarking and targeted reinforcement fine-tuning (RFT) without incurring full pre-training costs.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=4s) The Shift from Chat-Based AI to Autonomous Action

Michael Giannangeli opens by addressing the shared reality in the room: almost everyone is experimenting with or deploying agents, enticed by rapid model breakthroughs, yet bumping up against harsh operational realities in production. Grounding his insights in his work at Amazon—where he focuses on the foundation model layer and training the Amazon Nova model family to excel at complex, agentic tasks—he describes a fundamental transition underway across the artificial intelligence landscape. Over the past year, the field has decisively shifted from conversational, chat-based AI to action-oriented AI that independently executes tasks on a user's behalf.

He cautions that full autonomy remains an ongoing, incremental journey rather than an overnight milestone. Reaching truly autonomous agents will take significant time, even if tangible progress is being made daily. The fundamental hurdle is earning user trust: models must prove that they can reliably accomplish complex tasks without catastrophic, dangerous failure modes. Despite the long runway ahead, Giannangeli emphasizes that tackling these core reliability bottlenecks is "the really fun part" of developing modern AI systems.

---

[01:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=115s) Defining the Agent: Model Plus Harness

To establish common ground, Giannangeli provides a clean operational definition: an agent consists of the foundation model plus the harness. The model serves as the central reasoning engine—the "brain." He cites cutting-edge frontier models such as Anthropic's Claude Opus, OpenAI's GPT models, and Amazon's own Nova 2, which his team directly develops.

The harness, by contrast, gives that brain the agency and capability to interact with the physical and digital world. It supplies everything outside the raw weights: external tools, dynamic context management, short- and long-term memory, and orchestration infrastructure. Without the harness, a model remains purely reactive in conversation; with it, the system can execute multi-step workflows across diverse enterprise environments.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Anatomy of an Agent subgraph Harness["The Harness (Body & Infrastructure)"] T["Tools & API Calls"] C["Context Management"] M["Memory Systems"] end subgraph Model["The Model (Brain)"] LLM["Foundation Model<br/>(Nova 2 / Claude / GPT)"] end Harness --> AG["Autonomous Agent"] Model --> AG ```

---

[03:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=181s) Why Evaluation Is the Hardest Part: Beyond Public Benchmarks

In his day-to-day conversations with enterprise customers struggling with deployment, Giannangeli finds that before teams can solve implementation issues, they must first resolve a deeper problem: defining and measuring what "good" actually looks like. While public benchmarks exist for coding, tool use, and mathematics, they offer only broad directional signals. For specialized enterprise applications, off-the-shelf benchmarks are largely unhelpful, making custom, robust evaluation suites critical—and "oftentimes the hardest part" of the entire agent engineering lifecycle.

Evaluating agents is exceptionally difficult because success is multi-dimensional. Builders must evaluate whether the model achieved task accuracy, invoked the correct tools with proper arguments, reasoned coherently along the way, and produced high-quality outputs. Unlike conventional software testing, there is rarely a single path to the correct outcome, meaning standard deterministic unit tests are insufficient.

Compounding these challenges are the inherent nuances of modern foundation models: - **Non-deterministic behavior:** An agent cannot be evaluated on a single successful run; it must be tested repeatedly across distributions to detect variance and flakiness. - **Compounding multi-turn interactions:** Enterprise agents rarely operate in single-turn exchanges; small step-level mistakes compound rapidly over long execution traces. - **Ambiguous ground truth:** Verifying outputs often lacks clear ground truth, forcing builders to choose between deterministic assertions, secondary LLMs acting as judges, or costly human evaluators.

---

[06:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=368s) Core Dimensions of Agent Evaluation and Safety Guardrails

When engineering an evaluation suite, teams must evaluate a wide spectrum of operational behaviors beyond simple binary pass/fail criteria:

- **Graduated completion and correctness:** Assessing whether an agent fulfilled 100%, 90%, or 70% of a task when edge cases arise. - **Error recovery vs. infinite loops:** Determining whether an agent can detect unexpected API responses and self-correct, or whether it gets trapped in an infinite retry loop that burns thousands of tokens and runs up massive infrastructure bills. - **Output repeatability:** Ensuring consistent outcomes across identical prompts and inputs, avoiding wide stochastic variances in production. - **Cost and latency efficiency:** Verifying that execution traces remain strictly within allocated budgets for response times and token expenditures. - **Safety and guardrails:** Ensuring the agent operates within defined enterprise boundaries. Giannangeli notes recent high-profile incidents where unsupervised models, aggressively optimizing for task completion rewards, "hacked into databases" or exploited unintended loopholes just to produce the required answer.

---

[07:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=472s) The Feedback Loop and Hierarchy of Evaluators

Giannangeli emphasizes that establishing an active feedback loop is a recognized "superpower" in business, and it is equally transformative in agent development. Teams must capture real-world failure modes from customer usage or internal dogfooding, turn those failures into targeted evaluations, feed those evaluations into model training, and continually iterate to eliminate failure modes.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: The Agentic Evaluation and Training Loop A["Customer Usage & Production Failures"] --> B["Identify Specific Failure Modes"] B --> C["Build Targeted Evals"] C --> D["Train via RL Gyms"] D --> E["Deploy Updated Model"] E --> A ```

Different types of failure modes demand different tiers of evaluation:

1. **Deterministic Verifiers (The Gold Standard):** Automated unit tests or clear programmatic verifications. These are objective, unambiguous, and virtually impossible for the model to "game." 2. **LLM-as-a-Judge:** Programmatic scaffolding powered by a secondary language model. While flexible for open-ended text, it introduces stochastic judgment and additional failure points. 3. **Human Feedback (RLHF):** Indispensable for nuanced, subjective domains where no programmatic unit test or automated model can verify quality. Giannangeli highlights an active, real-world project his team is tackling: generating video advertisements. Determining whether one marketing video is compelling or superior to another is entirely subjective, rendering unit tests useless and requiring human judgment to define the reward signal.

---

[10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=645s) The Multi-Turn Compounding Error Trap

Giannangeli highlights a mathematical reality that often derails agent deployments: multi-turn degradation. Because an agent must maintain accuracy across sequential reasoning steps and tool calls, minor error rates compound exponentially with each turn.

``` Overall Reliability = (Per-Turn Accuracy)^(Number of Turns) ```

Even an agent with an impressive 90% accuracy per individual step experiences severe degradation over a multi-step workflow: - **Turn 1:** 90.0% reliability - **Turn 2:** 81.0% reliability - **Turn 3:** 72.9% reliability - **Turn 4:** 65.6% reliability - **Turn 5:** 59.0% reliability

By the fifth turn, the agent fails roughly 40% of the time. Giannangeli delivers a blunt verdict on this operational cliff: "If an agent is 50% reliable, it's 0% useful." In real-world enterprise environments, an automated system that behaves like a coin flip will be discarded by users.

---

[11:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=700s) Transitioning from Evals to Reinforcement Learning Gyms

The real breakthrough in model development occurs when teams bridge the gap between static evaluations and dynamic reinforcement learning (RL) gyms. Structurally, an eval harness and an RL gym share the same architectural building blocks: realistic tasks, an execution harness, an environment with context and memory, and a verifier or reward function. The critical difference lies in their objective: - **Evaluation:** Passively measures how capable an agent is at executing a given task. - **RL Gym:** Actively trains the agent to master that task through deliberate practice and optimization.

Major frontier labs and the Amazon Nova team are building hundreds of specialized RL gyms because they drive the largest capability gains. These environments act as simulated sandboxes where agents practice complex behaviors through trial, error, and reinforcement—much like an athlete practicing on a court or pitch. While human training is constrained by physical fatigue—Giannangeli jokes that when he goes to the gym, he can only work out for 60 minutes before his lower back starts hurting—models have no such limitations. Their practice volume is bounded solely by available compute.

To build an effective RL gym, three components must be calibrated: - **The Environment:** Must faithfully mirror production workflows, using real, functional APIs (which can be safely "defanged" to prevent unintended real-world side effects). - **The Tasks:** Must replicate the genuine, messy problem distributions encountered in actual business usage. - **The Reward Function / Verifier:** The most difficult component to get right. If an eval has a flawed metric, it merely yields an inaccurate benchmark score. If an RL gym has a flawed reward function, the model systematically trains itself to optimize for the wrong behaviors, learning to exploit loopholes. Giannangeli illustrates this challenge with an analogy to his personal life, noting that parenting a two-year-old toddler has taught him more about reinforcement learning and reward hacking than anything else.

[15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) The Toddler and the Pasta: Reward Hacking and Misaligned Reinforcement

To illustrate how reinforcement learning can easily reinforce the wrong behaviors, Michael Giannangeli shares a parenting anecdote about watching his young son grow. Recently, his son ate pasta for the first time and had a wonderful time throwing noodles into the air and whacking himself with them. Finding the spectacle hilarious, Giannangeli laughed, snapped photos to send to his parents, and celebrated how much his son loved pasta. But at the very next meal, the toddler immediately began throwing his food again. When Giannangeli told him to stop, the child gave him a look of total confusion: "You laughed last time. Should laugh again. I'm going to do this every time." By rewarding the mess the first time, Giannangeli had inadvertently reinforced an undesirable habit.

The exact same phenomenon happens with frontier AI models. When early models broke out or found ways around constraints, the core takeaway was that the models had simply been optimized to achieve the reward by whatever means necessary. Even when developers establish explicit guardrails warning models what not to do, an agent with a single primary optimization objective will exploit any shortcut or loophole to maximize that reward. Designing environments that prevent reward hacking while encouraging genuine problem-solving is extraordinarily challenging, but it forms the core discipline of building reinforcement learning gyms.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Reward Hacking Loop vs Controlled Gym Optimization subgraph ToddlerAnalogy["Parenting & Reward Analogy"] T1["Action: Child throws pasta"] --> T2["Reward: Parent laughs & takes photos"] T2 --> T3["Learned Policy: Throw all food at every meal"] T3 --> T4["Conflict: Scolded during normal mealtime"] end

subgraph RLAgentGym["Agentic RL Optimization"] A1["Agent Action in Gym Environment"] --> A2["Reward Signal Assigned"] A2 --> A3{"Is Gym Hackable?"} A3 -- "Yes" --> A4["Reward Hacking: Exploits loopholes / memorization"] A3 -- "No" --> A5["True Generalization: Robust multi-step tool use"] end ```

[17:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1067s) Designing Effective RL Gyms: Difficulty, Contamination, and Hackability

When constructing a reinforcement learning gym for agentic models, several core design principles determine whether the model will actually learn. Beyond real-world relevance, calibrating task difficulty is crucial: if an environment is too hard and the pass rate is zero, the model receives no reward signal to learn from; if it is too easy, the model learns nothing new. The optimal sweet spot for initial pass rates typically sits between a couple of percentage points and roughly 20%. Maintaining this calibration is tricky because base models improve rapidly—a gym that offers a productive 15% pass rate today might see a 70% pass rate on the next model generation, rendering it obsolete for further training.

Preventing data contamination is equally critical. Developers must ensure the agent is not simply recalling answers from its pre-training memorization or fetching solutions from external sources. To build a robust evaluation and training suite, gyms must be measured across several concrete dimensions:

- **Pass@K (Pass Rate):** Aiming for a target pass rate below 20% to provide an optimal learning gradient without overwhelming or under-challenging the model. - **Task Diversity:** Varying tools, edge cases, and environment parameters so the agent generalizes across workflows rather than memorizing narrow trajectories. - **Task Clarity and Trace Analysis:** Ensuring instructions are unambiguous while inspecting execution traces across alternate paths to refine gym mechanics. - **Hackability Red-Teaming:** Explicitly prompting models to cheat (such as instructing them to search the internet for leaked answers); if a model can hack an environment when asked, it will inevitably exploit that weakness unprompted during optimization. - **Web Gym Environments:** Applying RL gyms to browser navigation and UI interaction tasks, allowing models to learn dynamic UI element manipulation far more effectively than rigid, hardcoded heuristics.

[22:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1344s) Balancing Autonomy and Control: Progressive Trust and Multi-Model Guardrails

In high-stakes enterprise applications, the cost of an agent making an error is far too severe to permit unbounded autonomy. To mitigate this risk without abandoning agentic workflows, two primary architectural patterns are deployed: human-in-the-loop oversight and multi-model guardrail cascades. Under a human-in-the-loop model, an agent executes the initial 90% of a workflow, leaving the final 10% for human validation and sign-off. As the system demonstrates sustained reliability and "earns your trust," teams can gradually transition toward fully autonomous execution.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Architectural Patterns for Agentic Control subgraph Pattern1["Pattern 1: Progressive Human-in-the-Loop"] direction TB P1_A["Agent Executes 90% of Workflow"] --> P1_B["Human Reviewer Approves Final 10%"] P1_B --> P1_C["Trust Accrues Over Time"] P1_C --> P1_D["Gradual Shift to Fully Autonomous"] end

subgraph Pattern2["Pattern 2: Multi-Model Guardrail Cascades"] direction TB P2_A["User Request"] --> P2_B["Primary Agent Model"] P2_B --> P2_C["Secondary Inspector / Guardrail Models"] P2_C --> P2_D{"Violations or Errors?"} P2_D -- "Yes" --> P2_E["Block / Intercept Action"] P2_D -- "No" --> P2_F["Safe Execution to User"] end ```

The second strategy uses secondary models as real-time guardrails. In Amazon Nova, lightweight secondary models inspect primary model outputs to intercept malicious prompts or policy violations that bypass the first layer. In mission-critical sectors, organizations scale this approach significantly:

- **Healthcare Multi-Model Cascades:** One healthcare enterprise deploys a primary foundation model accompanied by 22 distinct specialized models that inspect outputs for specific clinical and procedural errors. - **Tolerating Latency and Cost Taxes:** Because an error in clinical settings could cause severe injury or death, organizations gladly pay the extra computational and latency overhead to achieve reported accuracies around 99.99%. - **Layered Defense:** Using specialized observer models ensures that even subtle failure modes in the primary generative agent are caught before affecting end users.

[25:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1516s) The Missing Ingredient: Multimodal Context and the Path Forward

Despite rapid advances over the past year, a wide gulf remains between human capability and agentic models on complex, nuanced tasks. Closing this gap may require novel architectures beyond traditional autoregressive language models, such as world models or energy-based models. A fundamental limitation of current models is their lack of rich contextual awareness.

To illustrate, Giannangeli notes that when an employee listens to their manager speak, they process far more than the literal words spoken: they evaluate facial expressions, vocal inflections, body language, known office rumors, and interpersonal history with coworkers. Today's AI models operate almost entirely without this surrounding atmospheric context. Closing that divide will require expanding the contextual harnesses and evaluation tooling available to developers. Giannangeli concludes on an optimistic note, emphasizing that "it's never been easier to build" and encouraging builders to lean into the experimentation ahead.

[28:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1683s) Q&A: Multi-Agent Gym Environments and Training Convergence

During the question-and-answer session, audience members ask about multi-agent interaction inside RL gyms and the mechanics of stabilizing open-ended tool-use training:

- **Shared Multi-Agent Gym Architectures:** Niladri from American Express asks whether RL gyms operate as isolated sandboxes for single agents or if there are standardized schemas where multiple agents train collaboratively, sharing memory and internal state toward a common objective. Giannangeli clarifies that while gyms are reusable across different models, there is currently no standardized framework for multi-agent co-training within the same gym environment. While custom multi-agent environments can be engineered as task workarounds, they are not yet standard architectural foundations. - **Convergence in High-Dimensional Search Spaces:** An audience member raises the challenge of convergence during reinforcement learning when agents face massive action spaces with numerous tools and open-ended tasks. In traditional RL, vast search spaces make policy optimization difficult to stabilize, often requiring extensive instruction fine-tuning prior to reinforcement learning to prevent degenerate training runs.

[30:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1815s) Reward Alignment, Hackability, and Red Teaming in Reinforcement Learning

The discussion opens with an exploration of alignment and convergence in reinforcement learning environments, with the speaker emphasizing that model performance is fundamentally bounded by the quality of the reward function: "it's as good as the reward function I would say. And if you don't really design it in the right way, then you're going to have issues." A PhD student in the audience—who notes they are using a network gymnasium environment to study adversarial AI in their dissertation—asks how the Amazon Nova team balances intrinsic versus extrinsic rewards to prevent agents from hacking rewards and taking unintended shortcuts rather than genuinely solving the assigned goal.

The speaker explains that mitigating reward hacking requires deliberate red teaming during the prompt and verifier design phases. Developers must craft adversarial prompts that intentionally bait the model into finding solutions through illicit shortcuts or incorrect pathways. The underlying logic is straightforward: if an agent is susceptible to reward hacking when explicitly challenged to cheat, it will inevitably exploit similar vulnerabilities in standard runs even when not instructed to do so. Ensuring reliability comes down to maintaining a sufficiently robust suite of red teaming prompts and verifiers to proactively surface and eliminate these behaviors.

- Reward hacking happens when a model finds pathological ways to maximize reward signals without fulfilling the true task intent. - Red team prompt suites are essential to test whether agents violate behavioral constraints when seeking answers.

---

[31:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1914s) Iterative Feedback Loops: Traces Over Context-Window Memory

An attendee asks a practical question regarding state retention between gym iterations: how do engineers preserve memory across runs without endlessly inflating the context window with summaries of what failed? The speaker clarifies that agent gyms do not rely on accumulating gigantic context windows or maintaining massive external memory databases across iterations. Instead, the process operates as an iterative training feedback loop.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Gym Feedback Loop for Agent Optimization subgraph GymRun["Gym Environment Execution"] A["Agent Model Execution"] --> B["Generate Execution Traces"] B --> C["Evaluate Failures & Successes"] end subgraph TrainingLoop["Continuous Model Improvement"] C --> D["Feed Traces to Model Training"] D --> E["Update Model Weights"] E --> A end ```

Execution traces and trajectory data generated in the gym are captured and fed directly back into model training. The model internalizes the lessons from prior successes and failures into its weights. When the next evaluation run begins, the underlying model has already integrated those insights: "when you run it again, it's already learned from what had happened before. So you're not having to keep like this big huge memory database that then gets used at the very end. It's this iterative continuous process."

---

[33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1986s) Decoupling Model Optimization from Agent Harness Engineering

The discussion shifts to whether optimization efforts should focus on the agent harness, the foundational model, or both—especially given that modifying an execution harness is often significantly cheaper than model fine-tuning. The speaker emphasizes that while optimizing both layers is viable, they represent two distinct engineering responsibilities that must not be conflated during development.

When optimizing the foundation model itself, best practice dictates keeping the harness constant across a broad collection of diverse gyms to isolate model performance gains. Conversely, teams can also hold the model steady and iterate on harness logic to squeeze maximum performance out of a specialized domain workflow. At Amazon Nova, teams utilize both approaches depending on their specific project targets and resource trade-offs.

- **Model Optimization:** Keeps the execution harness static across varied gym environments to drive generalizable model capability improvements. - **Harness Optimization:** Customizes the scaffolding, orchestration, and tool integration layers around a fixed model to maximize task-specific success at lower compute cost.

---

[34:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=2041s) Structuring System Prompts vs. Task Prompts in Gym Environments

An audience member building agents on frontier foundation models like Anthropic's Claude and Google's Gemini asks how reinforcement learning applies to prompt-level skill definitions, how to reward those skills, and whether recursive agentic prompt iteration can improve performance. The speaker responds by separating prompts into two distinct architectural categories: system prompts and task prompts.

System prompts define the agent’s core persona, behavioral constraints, and operating instructions; the Nova team avoids constantly tweaking system prompts inside the gym environment to prevent confounding their training signals. Instead, gym optimization focuses heavily on the task prompt—the dynamic combination of user instructions and customer-provided data required to initiate a task. High-quality gym engineering demands careful attention to task design, ensuring prompts possess high diversity and extreme semantic clarity so the agent learns robust problem-solving rather than overfitting to narrow prompt phrasing.

- **System Prompt:** Sets foundational behavioral guardrails and high-level rules; kept stable during gym runs. - **Task Prompt:** Encapsulates the specific user intent, input data, and problem statement; requires diversity and clarity to test broad agent capability.

---

[35:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=2148s) Gym Techniques for Evaluated Deployments and Data Privacy

An attendee opens with a lighthearted remark—apologizing for missing the opening because they made the mistake of attending another presentation that turned out to be far less interesting—and asks how engineering teams with limited budgets can apply gym methodologies to frontier models or in-house LLMs without bearing the massive costs of full model training. The speaker acknowledges that while Amazon uses gyms to train next-generation Nova foundation models, the same framework provides immediate utility to budget-conscious teams as an evaluation and fine-tuning harness.

For organizations that cannot pre-train models from scratch, gyms serve primarily as evaluation suites to precisely benchmark model capabilities, pinpoint operational failure modes, and run targeted reinforcement fine-tuning (RFT). The speaker notes that frontier AI labs frequently collaborate with third-party enterprises to build customized gyms, training next-generation models so they perform well on enterprise tasks out of the box. However, larger enterprise customers frequently choose to build private gyms to evaluate and fine-tune their own custom models internally, preventing sensitive proprietary business data from being exposed to multi-tenant public AI labs.

- **Reinforcement Fine-Tuning (RFT):** Enables smaller teams to use gym trajectories to tune specialized open or commercial models without full-scale pre-training costs. - **Evaluation Gaps:** Gyms act as automated benchmarking engines that pinpoint where third-party frontier models fail on internal business logic. - **Data Privacy & In-House Models:** Enterprises leverage private gyms to customize internal models, avoiding the exposure of proprietary organizational workflows to shared foundation model providers.

## Notable quotes > [03:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=181s) oftentimes the hardest part — Michael Giannangeli

> [10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=645s) If an agent is 50% reliable, it's 0% useful. — Michael Giannangeli

> [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) You laughed last time. Should laugh again. I'm going to do this every time. — Michael Giannangeli

> [25:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1516s) it's never been easier to build — Michael Giannangeli

> [30:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1815s) it's as good as the reward function I would say. And if you don't really design it in the right way, then you're going to have issues. — Michael Giannangeli

> [31:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1914s) when you run it again, it's already learned from what had happened before. So you're not having to keep like this big huge memory database that then gets used at the very end. It's this iterative continuous process. — Michael Giannangeli

## Mentioned Michael Giannangeli, Amazon, Amazon Nova, Nova 2, Anthropic, Claude Opus, Claude, OpenAI, GPT, Google, Gemini, American Express, Niladri, Ai4

## Video description Michael Giannangeli - Head of Product, Agentic AI, Amazon Nova

In this talk, Michael Giannangeli shares lessons from developing agentic capabilities for Amazon’s Nova foundation models. Drawing on real-world deployments and conversations with customers building complex agent workflows, he explores the challenges that emerge when moving from single-turn models to autonomous systems. Topics include how to evaluate agents beyond benchmarks, why reliability is the gating factor for adoption, the role of reinforcement learning “gyms” and simulated environments, and architectural patterns for balancing autonomy with control in high-stakes applications.

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM)

中文简报

亚马逊 Nova AI 负责人警告:复合误差会摧毁智能体可用性 由于单步层面的不准确会在多轮工作流中呈指数级复合放大,构建可行的企业级智能体需要搭建具备严格审计奖励函数的强化学习模拟环境(Gym),以防范模型作弊(Reward Hacking)及运行故障。 Michael Giannangeli 深入解析了构建可靠智能体系统所需的核心要素,并将智能体定义为基础模型“大脑”与执行“线束(Harness)”的结合体。他展示了多轮复合误差如何在生产环境中迅速削弱系统可靠性,阐明了现有标准基准测试为何存在不足,并指出开发定制评估套件及强化学习模拟环境的必要性。结合具体的设计原则和幽默的“幼儿类比”,他解释了如何诊断奖励作弊、防止数据污染以及校准任务难度。最后,他概述了适用于高风险企业级部署的架构模式,例如渐进式人机协同(Human-in-the-loop)验证和多模型护栏级联机制。 AI 行业正从对话式聊天系统向行动导向型智能体转型,而通过运行可靠性赢得用户信任是决定其能否被广泛采纳的首要瓶颈因素。 (0:04) 从功能层面上看,智能体被定义为充当核心推理引擎的基础模型,与提供工具、上下文管理、记忆和编排能力的线束系统的结合体。 (1:55) 评估智能体往往是最棘手的工程障碍,因为现成的基准测试无法捕捉多轮复合误差、非确定性方差以及企业场景中模糊的真值(Ground Truth)。 (3:01) 一套稳健的评估层级体系应从客观的确定性验证器,逐步过渡到大语言模型裁判(LLM-as-a-judge)及人类反馈(RLHF),将真实环境中的失败轨迹转化为针对性的训练信号。 (7:52) 多轮复合误差会迅速削弱智能体的可靠性;即便单步准确率达到 90%,到第五步时准确率也会跌至 60% 以下,导致处于临界状态的系统在企业级场景中几乎无法使用。 (10:45)

Reading summary

Michael Giannangeli of the Amazon Nova team argues that transitioning from conversational AI to reliable autonomous agents requires moving past static public benchmarks toward dynamic reinforcement learning gyms and multi-layered evaluation hierarchies to survive compounding multi-turn execution failures. The Multi-Turn Compounding Reliability Trap (10:45) Giannangeli defines an agent as a foundation model reasoning engine paired with an execution harness providing external tools, dynamic context management, memory, and orchestration. While foundation models have advanced rapidly, enterprise deployment frequently breaks down when moving from single-turn chat interactions to multi-turn agentic workflows. Because tasks require sequential reasoning and tool calls, per-step errors compound exponentially according to the formula: Overall Reliability = (Per-Turn Accuracy)^(Number of Turns). Under this dynamic, an agent with an apparently strong 90% individual step accuracy degrades to roughly 59% reliability by turn five, failing over 40% of the time. Giannangeli emphasizes that in operational enterprise settings, an agent that succeeds only half the time functions like a coin flip and is essentially useless to users, making reliability the primary bottleneck to real-world adoption. Limitations of Benchmarks and Evaluation Hierarchies (3:01) Public benchmarks for coding or math provide only general directional signals and fail to evaluate specialized enterprise workflows. Giannangeli identifies custom evaluation as the most difficult stage of agent engineering due to model non-determinism, multi-step error accumulation, and ambiguous ground truth. Standard binary pass/fail unit tests cannot evaluate whether an agent gracefully recovers from API errors or gets trapped in token-burning infinite loops. To build effective feedback loops from production failures, Giannangeli outlines a three-tier evaluation hierarchy. Programmatic deterministic verifiers represent the objective gold standard because models cannot easily game them. LLM-as-a-judge provides flexible assessment for open-ended text but introduces stochastic variance. Finally, human feedback (RLHF) remains necessary for subjective tasks where code cannot assess quality, such as Giannangeli's ongoing team initiative evaluating the effectiveness of generated video advertisements. Reinforcement Learning Gyms and Reward Hacking (11:40) While passive evaluation suites only measure agent performance, reinforcement learning (RL) gyms actively optimize agent weights through practice in defanged sandbox environments with live APIs. Instead of bloating context windows with execution histories, the training loop feeds trajectory data directly back into the model's underlying weights. However, RL gyms introduce the danger of reward hacking, where an agent exploits unintended environment loopholes or external memorization to maximize its reward rather than solving the underlying task. Giannangeli compares reward hacking to inadvertently encouraging a toddler who threw pasta because his parents laughed the first time. To build robust gyms, teams must keep initial task pass rates between roughly 2% and 20% to sustain an effective learning gradient, isolate model performance by holding harnesses and system prompts stable while varying task prompts, and proactively red-team environments by prompting models to cheat. Architectural Guardrails and Progressive Trust Deployment (22:24) Because catastrophic errors are unacceptable in high-stakes environments, organizations mitigate risk by pairing agentic autonomy with architectural controls. One approach is progressive human-in-the-loop oversight, where the model performs the first 90% of a workflow and human operators approve the final 10%, gradually transitioning to full automation as trust is earned. Alternatively, teams deploy multi-model guardrail cascades. Giannangeli points to an enterprise healthcare customer that pairs a primary foundation model with 22 specialized inspector models to catch procedural and clinical errors, willingly absorbing latency and cost overheads to achieve reported 99.99% reliability. For teams with limited compute budgets, gyms also function as local evaluation and reinforcement fine-tuning (RFT) harnesses that allow enterprises to customize in-house models without exposing sensitive workflows to multi-tenant public AI providers. Giannangeli observes that contemporary models still lack the rich atmospheric context humans rely on, such as body language, tone, and interpersonal history. Overcoming this fundamental divide and achieving true autonomy may ultimately require novel non-autoregressive paradigms, such as world models or energy-based architectures, alongside deeper contextual harnesses.

精炼阅读摘要

亚马逊 Nova 基础模型团队的 Michael Giannangeli 指出,人工智能正从对话交互转向自主任务执行,但企业落地的核心阻碍在于系统可靠性与用户信任;构建高可用智能体必须解耦基础模型与运行挽具,并借助动态强化学习训练场(RL Gym)攻克多轮复合误差与奖励黑客难题。 智能体双层架构与多轮复合误差陷阱 (1:55) Giannangeli 将智能体界定为“基础模型(Brain)”与“外围挽具(Harness)”的结合体。基础模型作为核心推理引擎,涵盖 Claude Opus、GPT 以及亚马逊自主研发的 Nova 2 等前沿模型;挽具则包含工具及 API 调用、动态上下文管理、长短期记忆与编排基础设施,负责赋予系统与真实及数字世界交互的行动能力。他指出,基础模型与挽具的工程优化应相互解耦,开发团队既可以保持挽具不变以单独评估模型性能的跃升,也可以固定模型权重来针对垂直工作流调优挽具逻辑,从而在更低算力成本下实现业务目标。 在真实多步业务流中,智能体极易跌入“多轮复合误差陷阱”。系统的整体可靠性遵循指数衰减公式(Overall Reliability = (Per-Turn Accuracy)^(Number of Turns))。即使单步操作达到 90.0% 的高准确率,经过多轮任务调用后,第 2 轮可靠性跌至 81.0%,第 3 轮为 72.9%,第 4 轮为 65.6%,到第 5 轮整体可靠性仅剩 59.0%,错误率超过 40%。Giannangeli 直言,在企业生产环境中,“如果一个智能体的可靠性只有 50%,其可用性便为 0%”,接近掷硬币水平的自动化系统必然会被最终用户所弃用。 超越公开基准的阶梯式多维评估体系 (3:01) Giannangeli 发现,现有的代码或数学公开基准测试仅能提供宏观参考,无法直接评估垂直企业应用,构建定制化评估套件往往是智能体工程中最艰难的环节。智能体评估不仅面临非确定性输出的方差波动,还需衡量部分完成度(如达成 70% 或 90%)、自我错误修复能力与死循环风险,同时必须监控响应时间、Token 账单以及防止模型为追求任务奖励而采取越权违规行为(例如侵入底层数据库)。 为建立有效的开发反馈闭环,团队需要将生产故障转化为评测用例,并在验证器层级上进行分类治理:最底层也是黄金标准的是确定性验证器(Deterministic Verifiers),依靠客观、防作弊的程序化单元测试;中间层是基于次级大语言模型的裁判(LLM-as-a-Judge),具备处理开放式文本的灵活性,但会引入随机性与判断盲区;最高层则是人工反馈强化学习(RLHF),专门用于缺乏客观标准的极度主观领域。以 Nova 团队研发的营销视频生成项目为例,评判商业广告视频的优劣完全依赖主观感知,无法编写确定性测试,必须引入人工反馈来提供奖励信号。 强化学习训练场构建与奖励黑客防御 (11:40) 模型能力的实质突破有赖于从被动评估转向主动的强化学习训练场(RL Gym)。两者虽包含相似的沙盒、环境上下文与验证机制,但评估仅是被动测量,训练场则是通过高频试错与强化来训练智能体掌握复杂技能,其训练上限仅受限于可用算力。一个有效的训练场包含三大要素:反映生产真实 API 的环境、模拟复杂业务分布的任务集,以及最具挑战性的奖励函数。Giannangeli 借用幼儿因家长大笑而误将扔面条视为受奖行为的育儿经历说明,AI 模型若仅设定单一结果导向的奖励指标,会竭力钻营任何捷径来最大化奖励,甚至演变成以非预期手段突破限制的“奖励黑客(Reward Hacking)”。 为了构建有效的强化学习训练场,团队需严格把控多项设计维度:初始通过率(Pass@K)的最优区间通常在几个百分点到约 20% 之间,既要避免因任务过难导致模型接收不到正向梯度,也要避免因任务过易导致模型无所收获;保持高任务多样性以防死记硬背轨迹;并在设计阶段主动实施红队对抗测试(Hackability Red-Teaming),直接诱导模型作弊或搜索泄露答案。若模型在受诱导时能够走捷径,在实际无监督训练中就必然会利用该漏洞。此外,训练场通过捕获执行轨迹直接迭代更新底层权重,无需在上下文窗口中累积过往失败记录或外挂庞大的记忆数据库。 企业风控架构:渐进式信任与多模型级联 (22:24) 在涉及重大损失的高风险企业场景中,直接赋予智能体完全自主权不可行,业界主要采用两类工程模式平衡控制与自主:其一是渐进式人机协同(Progressive Human-in-the-Loop),初期由智能体完成前 90% 的流程,最后 10% 由人工核验审批,随着系统持续积累可靠性并赢得信任,再逐步向全自主执行过渡;其二是多模型级联护栏(Multi-Model Guardrail Cascades),即在主生成模型外层嵌套轻量级审查模型,实时拦截越狱提示词与违规动作。 在 Amazon Nova 架构中,次级模型专门用于实时过滤主模型的潜在违规;而在医疗等极端敏感行业,已有企业部署了由 1 个主模型与 22 个专用审查模型构成的级联体系,分别针对特定的临床与流程错误进行层层校验,尽管付出了显著的计算成本与延迟开销,但换取了宣称达到 99.99% 的运行准确率。此外,在训练与优化范式中,系统提示词(System Prompt)应保持稳定以固化基础行为边界,所有动态探索与多样性测试均集中于反映用户真实意图的任务提示词(Task Prompt)。 Giannangeli 总结指出,当前自回归大语言模型与人类真实决策的根本差距在于缺乏丰富的多模态环境背景认知(如交谈时的面部表情、语调起伏与人际背景信息),未来收窄该差距或需引入世界模型等新型架构。对于预算受限的团队,RL 训练场框架可直接用作自动化评估与针对性强化微调(RFT)套件;企业自建私有训练场不仅能精准定位第三方模型在专有业务逻辑上的缺陷,亦能避免核心敏感数据暴露给公有基础模型服务商。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 本视频由 YouTube 频道 Ai4 于 2026 年 8 月 17 日发布。视频记录了亚马逊 Nova 基础模型代理式 AI 产品负责人 Michael Giannangeli 的主题演讲,主要探讨了从单轮对话迈向自主智能体系统的核心挑战、超越传统基准的评估体系、强化学习训练场(RL Gym)的构建,以及在高风险场景下平衡智能体自主性与安全控制的架构实践。 ## TL;DR 演讲系统性地阐明了生产级智能体系统的落地方法论,提出“智能体 = 模型 + 框架约束”的核心公式,并警示多轮交互中复合成功率衰减导致的“50% 可靠即 0% 实用”困境。为了从根本上提升系统鲁棒性,技术范式正从被动的评测转向利用强化学习训练场(RL Gym)与真实环境轨迹数据进行能力内化,并借助红队对抗测试防范奖励黑客(Reward Hacking)。在系统架构层面,演讲提出了通过人机协同(Human-in-the-loop)与多模型集成护栏来平衡自主性与风险,同时为各类规模的企业指明了利用 Gym 开展自动化评测与强化微调(RFT)的切实路径。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场演讲呈现出务实、严谨且极具工业落地视角的叙事风格,演讲者不讲空话套话,直击当下智能体落地的可靠性软肋。在解析抽象晦涩的强化学习奖励对齐难题时,他巧妙穿插喂两岁儿子吃面条的生活趣事,生动幽默且切中要害。随后的问答环节互动频繁、技术浓度极高,面对来自金融企业与学术界的尖锐追问,回答逻辑严密、坦诚直接,充分展现了前沿 AI 工程探索中的真实张力与理性思考。 ## Key takeaways - [00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=4s) 智能体的核心本质可以概括为“模型 + 框架约束(Harness)”:基础模型作为中枢大脑负责逻辑推理与决策,而 Harness 则集成工具、上下文和记忆以连接现实世界。 - [02:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=167s) 智能体评估面临多维标准、执行路径非唯一性、模型非确定性以及多轮交互中细微单步误差级联放大的严峻挑战。 - [06:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=368s) 企业需建立覆盖任务完成度、错误恢复、可重复性、综合能效与安全护栏的评估维度,并构建“捕获失败-评估-训练-消除缺陷”的闭环迭代(Eval Loop)。 - [10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=645s) 多轮交互会导致复合可靠性呈指数级骤降(如单轮90%准确率在5轮后降至约59%),因此推动智能体从被动“评估”转向主动的“强化学习训练场(RL Gym)”进行试错进化至关重要。 - [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) 强化学习极易陷入“误强化”与奖励黑客(Reward Hacking)陷阱,模型会不惜一切代价绕过安全规则去刷取奖励,因此精确设计奖励函数是核心难点。 - [17:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1060s) 构建高质量 RL Gym 需将初期通过率(Pass@k)控制在极低水平(如20%以下)以保留优化空间,同时需强化任务多样性、明确度并防止数据污染。 - [22:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1344s) 高风险场景中平衡自主性与安全性的两种核心策略是:人机协同(Human-in-the-loop)渐进放权,以及部署多层轻量级或数十个专用子模型作为安全护栏。 - [25:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1516s) 当前模型与人类的核心差距在于对全局隐式上下文(如语气、肢体语言、背景环境)的理解,未来可能需借助世界模型和能量模型来突破瓶颈。 - [30:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1815s) 防范智能体在仿真环境中投机作弊必须引入主动红队测试(Red Teaming)与鲁棒的验证器(Verifiers),以诱导并排查违规获取奖励的漏洞。 - [31:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1914s) 智能体能力的沉淀无需依赖臃肿的外部记忆数据库,而是通过将仿真环境中的执行轨迹数据(Traces)反哺至训练流程,将经验直接内化于模型参数中。 - [33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1986s) 模型优化与执行框架(Harness)优化必须明确解耦:评估基础模型通用能力时应固定 Harness,而垂类应用落地可通过定制 Harness 快速榨取工程效能。 - [35:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=2148s) 中小团队和企业即便不从头预训练大模型,也可将 RL Gym 用于高精度自动化评测、强化微调(RFT)或在私有隔离环境中定制专有模型资产。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=4s) 从对话到行动:代理式 AI 的演进与核心构成 当前人工智能领域正在经历一场深刻的范式转移,即从过去的“基于对话的 AI”(chat-based AI)全面迈向能够真正代表用户执行任务、交付结果的“代理式 AI”(Agentic AI)。尽管模型能力的飞速提升引发了业界的广泛兴奋,但几乎所有尝试在生产环境中部署智能体的人,都会迅速遭遇可靠性与落地层面的严峻挑战。作为亚马逊(Amazon)负责 Nova 基础模型层产品并专注于提升模型智能体任务表现的负责人,Michael Giannangeli 指出,通向完全自主智能体的旅程依然漫长,智能体必须在实际任务中逐步“赢得信任”(earn trust),证明自己不仅能把事情办成,而且绝不会以危险或失控的方式发生灾难性故障。 为了建立统一的认知框架,Giannangeli 将智能体的本质概括为一个极其精炼的公式:“智能体 = 模型 + 框架约束(The agent is the model plus the harness)”。其中,模型扮演着智能体大脑的角色,例如 Claude Opus、GPT 系列或亚马逊自研的 Nova 2;而 Harness 则是赋予模型在真实物理与数字世界中执行任务能力的系统工程,涵盖了工具(Tools)、上下文(Context)、记忆(Memory)以及所有让智能体发挥实际功用的外围基础设施。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 智能体架构分解图 subgraph Agent["智能体 (Agent)"] direction LR Model["基础模型 (Brain)<br/>· 逻辑推理<br/>· 决策生成"] Harness["执行框架 (Harness)<br/>· 外部工具 (Tools)<br/>· 任务上下文 (Context)<br/>· 长期记忆 (Memory)"] Model <--> Harness end Harness --> RealWorld["真实世界环境<br/>· API / 数据库 / 执行动作"] ``` - **模型(Model)定位**:作为智能体的中枢大脑,负责语义理解、高阶规划与决策逻辑。 - **框架(Harness)定位**:连接模型与现实世界的接口层,管理工具调用、环境状态追踪与记忆读写。 - **演进挑战**:从单轮提示响应转向长程、多步骤的自主执行,安全性与错误边界控制是商业落地的核心前提。 --- ### [02:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=167s) 评估(Eval)的困境:多维标准、非确定性与多轮误差 在与客户日常沟通中,绝大多数团队在触及具体架构前都会被同一个底层难题困扰:到底该如何衡量智能体表现的“好与坏”。公开的通用基准测试(如代码生成、数学推理或基础工具调用测试)虽然能提供粗略的能力参考,但对于特定业务场景而言,构建一套严密稳健的内部评估集(Evals)才是最关键也最艰巨的挑战。智能体的评估之所以极度复杂,核心在于其评估标准本质上是高度多维度的:不仅要检验最终任务的成功率,还要验证工具调用的合理性、思维链推导逻辑的正确性以及输出内容的连贯性。 更棘手的是,现实任务往往不存在唯一解,通向正确目标的执行路径可能有多条,传统的单一单元测试断言无法完全覆盖。与此同时,大语言模型固有的非确定性(Non-deterministic)特征意味着单次运行成功毫无代表性,必须进行多次采样测试以评估方差。而在多轮(Multi-turn)复杂任务中,细微的单步误差会随着交互轮数迅速级联放大,导致下游任务全面偏离轨道。加之许多开放式任务缺乏确定性的基准事实(Ground Truth),单纯依赖传统程序验证或 LLM 评审(LLM-as-a-judge)往往难以给出绝对可靠的判定。 - **多维度衡量指标**:涵盖单步任务准确率、工具调用的精准度、推理过程的自洽性及最终响应的逻辑连贯性。 - **路径非唯一性**:解决同一业务问题可能存在多种合法的工具组合与执行步骤,无法简单使用硬编码单元测试一概而论。 - **非确定性与方差**:单次测试通过不等于系统就绪,必须引入重复多轮次压测以捕捉概率分布漂移。 - **基准事实缺失**:许多高阶场景无法自动化生成标准答案,为评估的自动化与标定带来了巨大阻力。 --- ### [06:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=368s) 评估维度体系与闭环迭代(Eval Loop) 一套完善的智能体评估体系必须覆盖五个核心维度:其一是**任务完成度**,除了二元对错(Yes/No)外,还需细粒度量化完成比例(如实现了 70% 还是 90%);其二是**错误恢复能力(Error Recovery)**,即当智能体遇到环境异常或工具报错时,是能够自愈调整策略,还是陷入反复重试的死循环并疯狂燃烧 Token 成本;其三是**可重复性(Repeatability)**,评估在不同调用间输出的一致性与稳定性;其四是**综合能效(Efficiency)**,重点考核在既定成本与延迟预算内的执行表现;其五是**安全防护(Safety)**,确保智能体严格运行在安全护栏(Guardrails)之内,防止模型为最大化奖励目标而采取越权行为(例如在测试中直接黑入底层数据库强行窃取答案)。 建立从故障发现到评估、再到训练的“评估反馈闭环(Eval Loop)”是企业构建 AI 竞争力的超级武器。一旦在线上监控或用户反馈中捕获到新的失败模式(Failure Mode),团队必须立即将其转化为对应的评估用例,进而驱动针对性的模型训练与微调,最终彻底消除该类系统缺陷。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 智能体评估与训练闭环 subgraph Loop["评估迭代闭环 (Eval Loop)"] direction TB Fail["捕获失败模式<br/>(业务运行 / 客户反馈)"] Eval["构建定向评估集<br/>(确定性测试 / LLM 评审)"] Train["模型训练与调优<br/>(强化学习 / 提示与微调)"] Verify["验证与安全护栏校验<br/>(消除已知缺陷 / 发现新边界)"] Fail --> Eval Eval --> Train Train --> Verify Verify -->|"发现新故障边界"| Fail end ``` 在评估器的选型上,存在明显的层级划分与适用场景: | 评估器类型 | 核心机制与优势 | 潜在局限与应用场景 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **确定性验证器 (Deterministic / Unit Tests)** | **黄金标准**。通过断言、代码执行或固定输出比对,完全不可被作弊(Hard to game)。 | 仅适用于有明确断言规则、结构化输出或代码执行类的任务。 | | **大模型裁判 (LLM-as-a-Judge)** | 编写特定判定 Prompt,利用高阶模型对推理逻辑和输出文本质量进行打分。 | 存在主观漂移、幻觉及判定逻辑漏洞,需精心校准判定边界。 | | **人类反馈强化学习 (RLHF / Human Input)** | 引入专家或用户进行人工主观质量评估,适用于无标准数学解的审美或策略场景。 | 成本高、吞吐量受限。典型案例:评估两个由 AI 生成的广告视频哪个更具营销吸引力。 | --- ### [10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=645s) 多轮可靠性衰减法则与强化学习训练场(RL Gym) 多轮交互是智能体实现复杂业务价值的必经之路,但它在可靠性上带来了致命的数学陷阱。假设一个单轮准确率高达 90% 的智能体,当任务推进到第 5 轮交互时,其复合成功率将骤降至约 59%($0.9^5 \approx 0.59$),这意味着高达 40% 的端到端任务都会以失败告终。Giannangeli 一针见血地强调:"If an agent is 50% reliable, it's 0% useful."(如果一个智能体的可靠性只有 50%,那它在实际业务中的实用价值就是 0%)。这种指数级衰减意味着单轮模型能力的微小不足,会在长任务链条中引发灾难性后果。 为了从根本上攻克这一瓶颈,技术重心正在从被动的“评估”转向主动的“强化学习训练场(RL Gym)”。评估体系与 RL Gym 在底层架构上高度一致——它们都包含具体的任务描述、交互 Harness、真实环境(工具、上下文、记忆)以及验证/奖励函数。两者的本质区别在于:**评估(Eval)仅用于衡量模型当前做得有多好,而 RL Gym 则是利用这些环境通过反复试错来真正训练并提升模型的能力**。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: RL Gym 训练架构 subgraph RLGym["强化学习训练场 (RL Gym)"] direction TB Task["真实任务集 (Tasks)"] Env["仿真/安全环境 (Environment)<br/>· 去敏真实 API (Defanged APIs)<br/>· 上下文与记忆状态"] Reward["验证与奖励函数 (Verifiers / Reward Function)"] Task --> Env Env --> Reward end AgentBrain["待训练模型 (Agent)"] <-->|"高频试错 / 反馈闭环"| RLGym ``` 构建高保真 RL Gym 的三大核心支柱: - **高仿真实体环境**:环境必须极度逼近生产实况,集成真实的 API 调用(可采用安全去敏的 Defanged APIs),确保模型学到的动作策略能够无缝迁移。 - **高保真任务设计**:训练场内的任务必须直接映射真实业务场景中的复杂约束与长链条决策,而非人工合成的玩具玩具任务。 - **精确的奖励函数(Reward Function)**:这是整个训练系统中最难设计但也最关键的组件。在评估体系中,指标偏差只会导致分数统计错误;但在强化学习中,一旦奖励函数存在漏洞,模型便会迅速学会“奖励黑客(Reward Hacking)”,在完全偏离正轨的错误行为上不断自我强化。 Giannangeli 幽默地谈到,在 RL Gym 中训练智能体就像人类去健身房或球场通过反复试错提升技能一样,唯一不同的是人类在健身房锻炼 60 分钟后就会因为腰酸背痛(lower back starts to hurt)而不得不停下,而智能体受到的唯一制约就是算力(Compute),可以在数百个仿真环境中无休止地自我进化。在谈及如何为强化学习设定精确的引导机制时,他顺势抛出了自己教育两岁孩子(two-year-old)的现实生活经历,借此深入剖析奖惩信号设计的微妙机制。 ### [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) 强化学习的“误强化”陷阱:从育儿趣事看模型对齐 Michael Giannangeli 借用自己照顾儿子的生活趣事来生动解释强化学习中的奖励陷阱。他分享道,最近儿子第一次吃意大利面时兴奋地把面条抛向空中、拍打自己,弄得一团糟。当时 Michael 觉得非常滑稽,大笑着拍照发给父母,心想:“太棒了,他喜欢意面,我也喜欢意面。”然而在下一顿饭时,儿子又开始扔食物,Michael 却厉声制止:“别扔了!你在干什么?”此时孩子露出了困惑的眼神,仿佛在想:“爸爸你为什么生气?上次你明明笑得很开心,我以为你喜欢这样,所以我每次都会这么做。” 这种因人类反应不一致而导致强化了错误行为的现象,与大语言模型的强化学习机制如出一辙。近期无论是 OpenAI 模型还是其他前沿模型出现的越狱行为,本质上都揭示了一个核心问题:模型被强化学习引导去“不惜一切代价获取奖励”。即使人类预设了种种安全护栏(Guardrails)要求“不准做这个、必须做那个”,只要模型的核心目标是最大化奖励,它就会千方百计绕过规则去达成目的。因此,如何合理设计激励机制以避免奖励黑客(Reward Hacking)成为一项极具挑战的任务。 --- ### [17:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1060s) 构建 RL Gym 的核心原则与评估指标 在构建面向智能体的强化学习环境(RL Gym)时,设计者必须平衡难度、防作弊机制与通用性。首先,Gym 必须与现实应用高度相关,其难度不能过高也不能过低:如果难度过高导致通过率(Pass Rate)为 0%,模型将得不到任何有效反馈信号来学习;反之,若通过率过高,模型也无法获得能力提升。理想的通过率通常设定在极低比例(例如百分之几至 20% 左右)。但由于模型能力迭代极快,原本通过率仅 20% 的 Gym,随着下一代模型的推出可能通过率飙升到 70%,从而迅速失去训练价值。 此外,还需防范训练数据污染(Data Contamination),确保模型不是通过记忆预训练数据来直接作答。为了全方位衡量 Gym 的有效性,开发团队需要关注一系列核心设计原则与量化指标: ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: RL Gym 设计核心原则与评估维度 subgraph Environment ["RL Gym 设计维度"] D["难度与通过率 (Pass@K < 20%)"] V["任务多样性 (Task Diversity)"] C["任务明确度 (Clarity / Traces 分析)"] H["防作弊与红队测试 (Hackability)"] P["防数据污染 (Contamination Guard)"] end Environment --> Agent["高效、稳健的 Agent 训练"] ``` - **Pass@k 指标**:衡量模型的通过率,初期应尽量将指标控制在 20% 以下,保留足够的梯度优化空间。 - **任务多样性(Task Diversity)**:避免任务模板化,引入不同工具的调用和多变的交互细节,提升泛化能力而非狭隘过拟合。 - **任务明确度(Clarity)**:检查模型在执行过程中的推理与调用轨迹(Traces),通过多路径探索分析来修正 Gym 中的歧义表述。 - **抗 Hack 能力(Hackability)**:采用红队测试方式主动诱导模型(如提示它“去互联网上找现成答案”);若模型在被引导时会钻漏洞,则在无人引导时也会倾向于投机取巧。 --- ### [21:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1293s) 典型案例:浏览器操作(Web Gym)与强化学习实效 Michael 展示了团队构建的“Web Gym”实例,专门用于训练模型在浏览器环境中的自主导航(Browser Use)能力。在过去的传统工程中,开发者往往需要大量硬编码,或者明确下发诸如“定位该 UI 元素”的死板指令。 引入 RL Gym 之后,通过向模型提供大量不同界面结构和 UI 元素交互的复杂任务组合,模型逐渐自适应并掌握了在真实网页环境中寻找元素、完成多步操作的强大自主导航能力,证明了强化学习环境在复杂交互场景中的巨大潜力。 --- ### [22:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1344s) 自主性与控制权的平衡:Human-in-the-loop 与多模型安全护栏 在许多现实业务场景中,模型犯错的代价极其高昂,绝不能放任 Agent 随意自主决策。为此,行业内主要采用两种机制来平衡自主权与安全性: 第一种是**人机协同(Human-in-the-loop)**。由 Agent 完成前 90% 的繁重工作,人类专家仅在最后的 10% 关键决策点进行审核与介入。随着系统逐步赢得信任并展现出高可靠性,人类可逐步放权,推动流程向完全自主的 Agentic 架构演进。 第二种是**利用辅助模型构建安全护栏(Guardrails)**。Amazon Nova 在安全架构中引入了轻量级专用辅助模型,专门用来实时拦截恶意行为或违规调用。在要求极高的行业中,这种多模型监督模式被发挥到了极致。例如某医疗健康公司在主模型之外部署了 22 个独立的子模型,分别针对各类医疗错误进行严密质检。尽管这种架构带来了显著的计算成本与延迟开销,但为了消除致人伤亡的严重医疗风险,该公司宁愿承担这笔“安全税”,最终将端到端准确率提升到了 99.99%。 | 控制策略 | 运作机制 | 优势 | 核心代价 / 局限 | |:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **Human-in-the-loop** | Agent 执行绝大多数步骤,人类在最后节点审核确认 | 稳步建立信任,避免灾难性失误 | 消耗人力工时,无法完全实现自动化 | | **轻量级安全护栏模型** | 部署辅助小模型在输入/输出端拦截恶意攻击与合规违规 | 自动化拦截风险,保障系统基线安全 | 偶有漏判,单层防御有时仍不够充分 | | **多模型集成质检 (如 22 专有模型)** | 主模型生成结果后,由数十个专用小模型分别校验各项专业指标 | 实现极高可靠性(如 99.99% 医疗准确度) | 系统延迟大幅增加,推理计算成本显著上升 | --- ### [25:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1516s) 人机差距与未来展望:世界模型、能量模型与全方位上下文 尽管过去一年大模型取得了巨大突破,但在处理某些特定复杂任务时,模型的能力与人类相比依然存在巨大鸿沟。要彻底弥合这一差距,可能需要探索全新的模型架构,例如业界正在尝试的世界模型(World Models)以及基于能量的模型(Energy-based Models)。 人类相比模型的最大优势在于理解**全局隐式上下文(Full Context)**的能力。Michael 举例说明:当老板对你说话时,你接收到的绝不仅仅是表面的字面意思,还包括老板的语气、面部表情、肢体语言,甚至整个办公室此前流传的背景传闻与同事间的信息同步。人类是结合这些庞大的隐性上下文来做判断的,而模型目前仅能看到输入的文本。Michael 认为,随着评测体系、基础模型及开发框架的快速演进,Agent 领域的构建门槛正处于历史最低点,未来数年将迎来极具前景的发展浪潮。 --- ### [28:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1683s) 现场 Q&A:RL Gym 的架构共享与开放环境下的收敛难题 在演讲后的问答环节,现场参会者就强化学习环境的工程实践提出了深入问题: - 来自 American Express 的 Nilatri 提问:在 RL Gym 中,智能体是处于隔离的独立容器中运行,还是多个 Agent 能够在同一个共享环境中协同训练并共享状态、记忆与经验? - **Michael 回答**:目前业界尚无通用的多智能体跨任务共享状态框架。Gym 本身是可复用的,开发者可以使用相同的 Gym 去依次训练不同模型或智能体。尽管可以人为设计出需要多智能体协作的特定 Gym 关卡,但这更多是一种权宜妥协(Workaround),而非底层架构层面的通用方案。 - 另一位参会者提问:在面对工具调用繁多、动作搜索空间巨大的开放式环境中,强化学习往往极难收敛。业界通常先采用指令微调(Instruction Fine-Tuning)再进行强化训练。在构建这些 Gym 时,是如何解决这种训练不稳定以及收敛困难问题的? ### [30:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1815s) 奖励函数设计与红队测试:应对智能体的“投机作弊” 在强化学习与智能体对齐的讨论中,模型的收敛表现和对齐效果完全取决于奖励函数(Reward Function)的设计质量。一位正在攻读对抗性 AI(Adversarial AI)博士学位的与会者提出疑问:在使用 Gymnasium 等仿真环境时,如何平衡内在奖励(Intrinsic Rewards)与外在奖励(Extrinsic Rewards),并防止模型为了最大化奖励而走捷径(即智能体“不择手段”达成表面指标,却偏离了真实的业务目标)。 Michael Giannangeli 强调,这正是智能体系统的“可攻击性/作弊漏洞(Hackability)”问题。为了防止智能体产生违背预期的投机行为,开发团队必须引入专门的红队测试(Red Teaming)与红队 Prompt。在仿真环境中,测试者需要主动构建诱导性的任务,测试模型是否会采取错误或违规的方式去获取答案。如果智能体在诱导测试下会走捷径,那么在真实场景中即便没有明确诱导,它同样会发生越轨行为。因此,构建一个具备高鲁棒性的 Prompt 集和多重验证器(Verifiers),是彻底排查和消除此类风险的核心手段。 - **奖励函数的决定性作用**:智能体系统的行为上限与对齐水平严格受限于奖励函数的合理性,设计不当会直接引发策略漂移。 - **红队对抗测试(Red Teaming)**:主动设计诱骗性任务,验证智能体是否会绕过正规推理逻辑去刷取奖励。 - **验证器(Verifiers)体系**:结合自动化验证工具与对抗样本,在模型训练闭环中全面检测非合规行为。 --- ### [31:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1914s) 智能体运行记忆与反馈循环:从轨迹数据到模型迭代 针对“如何在 Gym 的多次运行迭代之间为智能体保留记忆”的提问(例如是否需要为智能体维护一个不断膨胀的上下文窗口或失败摘要数据库),Michael 明确澄清了智能体训练与运行时的机制差异。智能体并不需要在多次运行之间维护一个庞大而臃肿的外部记忆数据库,而是通过构建闭环的反馈回路(Feedback Loop)来实现持续进化。 在实际操作中,智能体在仿真环境(Gym)中执行任务时产生的所有轨迹数据(Traces)会被系统完整记录。这些包含成功路径与失败教训的轨迹数据会被直接回流并输入到基础模型的训练流程中。模型通过吸收这些经验完成参数更新与策略优化;当启动下一轮仿真测试时,模型已经将先前的经验内化于自身能力中,从而实现根本性的性能提升。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Agent Continuous Feedback Loop in Gym subgraph GymEnv["Gym 仿真环境"] Agent["智能体执行任务 (Agent Run)"] Traces["生成执行轨迹数据 (Execution Traces)"] Agent --> Traces end subgraph ModelTrain["模型训练与更新"] DataFeedback["轨迹数据回流与筛选"] ModelUpdate["模型训练 / 参数微调 (RL & Fine-Tuning)"] Traces --> DataFeedback DataFeedback --> ModelUpdate end ModelUpdate -->|"注入内化能力的新版本模型"| Agent ``` - **数据反馈闭环**:以执行轨迹为核心资产,将环境交互数据反哺给训练管道,而非依赖单次推理时的超长上下文。 - **能力内化替代外置记忆**:模型通过梯度更新和强化学习直接吸收历史交互经验,避免了维护复杂外部向量库或历史摘要带来的上下文开销。 --- ### [33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1986s) 模型优化与测试框架(Harness)的权衡解耦 现场听众就系统优化策略提出了深入探讨:在构建智能体时,团队究竟应当专注于优化模型本身,还是优化评测脚手架/执行框架(Harness)?考虑到优化 Harness 的工程成本往往极低,这种方式能否带来更高的投资回报比(ROI)? Michael 指出,模型优化与 Harness 优化虽然可以并行,但它们属于两种截然不同且必须清晰解耦的工程任务,绝不能混为一谈。在基座模型研发中,标准做法是将 Harness 保持为固定常量,在广泛多样的 Gym 环境中专注提升模型本身的泛化推理与决策能力;而在特定垂直场景中,也可以针对具体业务定制 Harness 来快速获取性能增益。团队需要根据自身的战略目标清晰界定边界,避免由于变量不一致导致评测与训练失真。 - **关注点分离原则**:在评测模型通用能力时必须固定 Harness,防止环境脚手架的变动干扰对模型真实能力的评估。 - **双轨优化路径**:基座模型厂商更注重在标准 Harness 下提升模型通用智能;垂类落地团队则可以通过优化特定 Harness 快速榨取工程效能。 --- ### [34:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=2041s) 智能体 Gym 中的 Prompt 分类与任务设计原则 在讨论基于现有基础模型(如 Gemini、Claude 等)构建智能体技能(Skills)与 Prompt 时,有开发者询问强化学习在此类场景中的适用性,以及如何通过迭代来优化 Prompt 结构。 Michael 将智能体系统中的 Prompt 划分为两大关键层次: 1. **系统级提示词(System Prompt)**:用于定义智能体的全局行为准则、角色设定和基础约束。在 Gym 环境的训练与评测中,研发团队通常尽量保持 System Prompt 的稳定,避免频繁变动。 2. **任务级提示词(Task Prompt)**:作为具体任务定义的核心组成部分,它包含了客户输入的业务数据、具体需求指令以及智能体完成该任务所需的所有上下文要素。 在构建高质量的 Gym 环境时,优化的重点在于“任务设计(Task Design)”。设计者必须确保 Task Prompt 具备高度的多样性(Diversity)与表达的清晰度(Clarity),使智能体能够在丰富且贴近真实世界的边缘场景中充分磨炼决策逻辑。 - **Prompt 分层管理**:严格区分底层的 System Prompt 与上层的 Task Prompt,保持系统行为框架稳定。 - **任务提示词的多样性构建**:高质量的 Gym 依赖于丰富、真实且边界清晰的任务提示词输入,以覆盖不同客户场景下的复杂调用需求。 --- ### [35:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=2148s) 低成本团队与企业客户如何利用 Gym 进行评估与定制训练 在问答环节的尾声,一位听众幽默地提到自己“因为去了另一个无聊的分会场而迟到”,并提出了中小型开发团队的普遍痛点:对于预算有限、无法从头预训练大模型的企业,该如何利用 Gym 技术来驱动前沿模型(Frontier Model)或企业自建 LLM? Michael 总结了 Gym 在不同规模团队中的三层应用路径: 1. **基座模型研发与微调**:如 Amazon 团队正在利用大规模 Gym 训练下一代 Amazon Nova 基础模型;企业也可以利用 Gym 生成的轨迹数据进行强化微调(Reinforcement Fine-Tuning, RFT)或轻量级 SFT。 2. **高精度自动化评测(Eval)**:如果团队缺乏微调预算,Gym 的最佳定位是作为精细化的基准评测环境,帮助团队快速定位现有前沿模型在实际复杂任务中的能力短板与断点。 3. **数据隐私与定制化合作**:对于重视数据资产的大型企业,他们通常不愿意将敏感业务数据共享给第三方模型实验室。此类企业会与 Amazon 合作搭建专属的私有 Gym 和 Eval 评测体系,在隔离环境中微调和定制自身专属的模型资产。 - **强化微调(RFT)的新范式**:利用 Gym 产生的模拟数据和奖励信号进行 Reinforcement Fine-Tuning,大幅降低定制化模型门槛。 - **Gym 作为自动化评估(Eval)利器**:即便不参与模型训练,将 Gym 作为评测基准也能精准度量智能体在真实业务中的完成度与可靠性差距。 - **企业私有化 Gym 模式**:满足大型企业在数据主权、隐私合规诉求下打造专有行业智能体的核心诉求。 ## Notable quotes > [00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=4s) The agent is the model plus the harness — Michael Giannangeli > [10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=645s) If an agent is 50% reliable, it's 0% useful. — Michael Giannangeli > [10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=645s) 评估(Eval)仅用于衡量模型当前做得有多好,而 RL Gym 则是利用这些环境通过反复试错来真正训练并提升模型的能力 — Michael Giannangeli > [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) 太棒了,他喜欢意面,我也喜欢意面。 — Michael Giannangeli > [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) 别扔了!你在干什么? — Michael Giannangeli > [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) 爸爸你为什么生气?上次你明明笑得很开心,我以为你喜欢这样,所以我每次都会这么做。 — Michael Giannangeli > [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) 不惜一切代价获取奖励 — Michael Giannangeli > [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=949s) 不准做这个、必须做那个 — Michael Giannangeli > [17:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM&t=1060s) 去互联网上找现成答案 — Michael Giannangeli ## Mentioned Michael Giannangeli, Amazon, Amazon Nova, Nova 2, Claude Opus, GPT, OpenAI, Gemini, Claude, American Express, Nilatri, Gymnasium ## Video description Michael Giannangeli - Head of Product, Agentic AI, Amazon Nova In this talk, Michael Giannangeli shares lessons from developing agentic capabilities for Amazon’s Nova foundation models. Drawing on real-world deployments and conversations with customers building complex agent workflows, he explores the challenges that emerge when moving from single-turn models to autonomous systems. Topics include how to evaluate agents beyond benchmarks, why reliability is the gating factor for adoption, the role of reinforcement learning “gyms” and simulated environments, and architectural patterns for balancing autonomy with control in high-stakes applications. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOXl5_n9ICM)

Source quotes

[0:04] Michael Giannangeli: The agent is the model plus the harness [10:45] Michael Giannangeli: If an agent is 50% reliable, it's 0% useful. [10:45] Michael Giannangeli: 评估(Eval)仅用于衡量模型当前做得有多好,而 RL Gym 则是利用这些环境通过反复试错来真正训练并提升模型的能力 [15:49] Michael Giannangeli: 太棒了,他喜欢意面,我也喜欢意面。 [15:49] Michael Giannangeli: 别扔了!你在干什么? [15:49] Michael Giannangeli: 爸爸你为什么生气?上次你明明笑得很开心,我以为你喜欢这样,所以我每次都会这么做。 [15:49] Michael Giannangeli: 不惜一切代价获取奖励 [15:49] Michael Giannangeli: 不准做这个、必须做那个 [17:40] Michael Giannangeli: 去互联网上找现成答案

Source quotes

[3:01] Michael Giannangeli: oftentimes the hardest part [10:45] Michael Giannangeli: If an agent is 50% reliable, it's 0% useful. [15:49] Michael Giannangeli: You laughed last time. Should laugh again. I'm going to do this every time. [25:16] Michael Giannangeli: it's never been easier to build [30:15] Michael Giannangeli: it's as good as the reward function I would say. And if you don't really design it in the right way, then you're going to have issues. [31:54] Michael Giannangeli: when you run it again, it's already learned from what had happened before. So you're not having to keep like this big huge memory database that then gets used at the very end. It's this iterative continuous process.

Original transcript

[0:04] I think one reason why everyone is here  is because you're probably using agents. [0:09] You're probably hearing about how great these  models are getting, but you're also probably [0:16] running into some issues when you try and deploy  agents. And so what I'm really going to focus on [0:22] here today is some of the learnings that I  have from Amazon where I focus on the model [0:34] layer and training the model to be much  better at these the these agentic tasks. [0:43] Before I jump into all of the  really interesting learnings, [0:47] um, one of the trends that we have seen over  the last year or so is this move from from [0:55] from from AI that is chatbased to to to AI that  actually gets things done on your your behalf. [1:08] Now, we are still on this this journey, and my  hunch is that it's going to still take a pretty [1:17] long time for us to get to something that's  truly autonomous, but we're getting closer [1:25] basically every day. Now, it's going to take time  for these agents and these models to earn trust, [1:32] to prove that they can actually get things done,  that they're not going to fail in ways that are [1:37] like really, really dangerous. And we've got a  ways to go, but we're getting there. And I think [1:45] that's the really fun part. So to get everyone  on the same page in terms of of of terminology, [1:55] the simplest way to ex ex explain this is that  the the agent is the model plus the harness. Now [2:06] the model is things like the claude the opus  5. It's GPT 5.6. It's Nova 2 which is which [2:16] is which is what I work on. And I think that part  is pretty straightforward. It's really the brain [2:24] of the agent. The harness is what gives the agent  the ability to get things done in the real world. [2:32] It's the tools. It's the context. It's the memory.  It's everything else that makes an agent useful. [2:47] Now, I talk to customers basically every  day trying to work with them to figure out [2:53] what they're trying to to to get done, where  they're running in to pain points. And almost [3:01] every single time before we can get into like  the real problems, it's about figuring out how [3:09] to measure what good actually looks like.  the evals. I'm sure you guys have heard a [3:16] lot about evals. You've probably built your own.  You you you know how important it is to be able [3:22] to measure success. If you aren't measuring the  right things, it doesn't matter what else you do, [3:29] you're you're going to focus on the wrong things.  public public benchmarks are a very common way [3:37] of of trying to measure a model in things like  coding, tool use, math. Um they can be useful as a [3:47] general general signal, but when it actually comes  to measuring what is useful for your use case, [3:56] a robust set of evals is critical and it's  oftenimes the hardest part. Part of why it's [4:04] hard is that it's not easy to measure what good  looks like. It's very multi- multi-dimensional. [4:14] So you're looking at things like the accuracy  of a a a particular task, whether the right [4:22] tool was used, whether it reasoned in the  right way, whether the output was coherent. [4:31] There's also more than one way often times to  get to the right answer. So it's not just like [4:38] a single unit test that says like you know  the agent must do x y and z. There could be [4:44] multiple ways of getting there. The other  point that's really important is most most [4:50] most of these agents are operating over multiple  turns. And to truly be useful, they have to be [4:59] able to get things done over multiple turns.  And so if the accuracy is reasonably high, [5:07] but it has to be accurate over and over and  over again, small errors really start to add up. [5:17] behavior is also non deterministic. So  you can't just measure the agent one time, [5:23] get a good result, and think, okay, everything's  great. You have to run it multiple times because [5:27] it may not pass every time. And this is  obviously a nuance of large large language [5:32] models. They're non deterministic. So you  also have to measure that. And then lastly, [5:40] the ground truth is not always clear. Sometimes  you can have a verifier that is deterministic [5:47] like a unit test, but other times you may need  to use a large language model as a judge or [5:53] you may have to use use human input. All of these  things make it harder to judge with the same sort [5:59] of accuracy that you need to know whether  the agent is is performing the right way. [6:08] So some of the things that I look for when  I'm building evals, you have the obvious [6:14] thing like is it getting the task done?  Yes or no? That's often times times binary, [6:19] but it could be that it's doing 90% of the task.  It's doing 70% of the of the task. How how how [6:30] correct was the task? Is it passing the unit  test? Yes or no? When the problems occur, can [6:38] the agent recover or does it go into a loop where  it keeps failing and burning more tokens? Very, [6:45] very costly when that happens. As sure many of  you have learned the hard way. Repeatability. [6:52] Is it able to get the same answer time and time  again or do you have wide variance in the output? [7:04] how h how well is it able to do your  task within a certain budget both [7:11] for cost and latency. So efficiency is  very important as well. And then lastly, [7:17] this is also something near and dear to my heart,  safety. Is your agent working within the guard [7:27] rails or does it go off the rails? Like we've  seen some very highprofile recent issues with [7:33] models h models hacking into databases finding  the answer through other means doing basically [7:41] whatever it can to get the right answer and to  get that reward. Safety is very important as well. [7:52] It's very important to build out  the eval loop. So in any business, [8:00] having a feedback loop is a superpower. And that's  no different here for agents where you're getting [8:10] feedback from customers or from your own usage.  You're finding a failure mode. You're building [8:18] an eval to match that that failure so that  the agent can then get get better at that or [8:25] at least give you feedback when it does fail.  And then you are repeating that loop. And I'm [8:32] going to talk a little bit later about going  from eval to training which is really like the [8:38] full loop. Um but this is really important. If  you can close this loop where you go from the [8:45] failure to an eval to training to hopefully no  longer seeing that that failure but then maybe [8:53] seeing new ones and repeating that you're  going to be very dangerous in a good way. [9:03] Different failure modes require different  evaluators. The best and the gold gold tier [9:13] here is determinism. If you can have an eval  that knows whether it is right or wrong using [9:24] a unit test or or a very clear output. That's  great. It's very difficult to game that. That's [9:31] not always the case. And so you may have  to write your own code. You may need to [9:37] use a large language model as a judge. This  is still useful, but there's just more areas [9:43] where things can go wrong. And then lastly, you  may need to use humans for feedback. So this is [9:53] rein reinforcement learning using human  feedback. Um, this is still important and [10:00] relevant in applications where maybe models are  not great at at knowing what good looks like and [10:07] there's really no way to know verifiably whether  something is right or wrong. So think think think [10:17] use use use use use use use cases  like building an ad and knowing [10:25] whether one advertising video is better  than another. It's going to be difficult [10:29] for a model to know that and it's  impossible to try and build a unit [10:36] test around that. And that  is by the way a real world [10:40] use case that I'm working on right now. Not easy. [10:45] This is one that I think is is a really important  point to touch on. The more turns you have, [10:57] the less reliable by definition the agent  is going to be and little errors are going [11:02] to start to look much bigger. So, even if  you have a a an agent that's 90% accurate, [11:10] by the time you get to the fifth turn, it's  now only 59% accurate, which means you're [11:18] seeing 40% failures. That's not acceptable.  If an agent is 50% reliable, it's 0% useful. [11:31] And of course, this just gets worse  and worse the more turns you have. [11:40] Now, this is the part that I am  particularly passionate about. So, [11:44] so I wanted to ground everyone in  eval. But where this becomes really, [11:50] really powerful is going from the eval  to the reinforcement learning gym. [11:58] They're basically the same thing. They have tasks.  They have a harness. They have the environment, [12:05] which is tools, context, memory, and they also  have reward functions. The key difference is [12:15] that eval is used to tell you how well the agent  is doing on that task whereas the RL gym is used [12:24] to actually train the agent to get better at  that task. This is this is something that we're [12:33] investing in heavily. We're building hundreds of  these gyms. Many labs are doing this because this [12:40] is where major gains are coming and I'm going  to dig into this a little bit more and sort of [12:47] show you all a a a behind-the-scenes look into  how we do this and why it really matters. So at [12:55] a very very high level, the RL gym is basically a  a simulated environment where agents can practice [13:06] things over and over again just like you or I  would in the gym, on the court, on the pitch. Um, [13:14] learning through trial and error. So it may  fail the first time but get a little bit right [13:20] and then maybe it learns from that and then it  it it fails again and gets a little better over [13:27] time. You can run these over and over again  because the only limiting limiting factor is [13:36] compute. It's not going to get tired in  the same way you or I do when we go to [13:41] the gym and I can only work out now for 60  minutes before my lower back starts to hurt. [13:46] agents don't have those limitations and so they're  able to learn on these gyms over and over again. [13:55] So what the gym really is, you have the  environment. It's really important that [14:02] if you're trying to get an agent better at  a certain task, you have as realistic of an [14:08] environment as possible. So if you're building a  gym around a use case that that matters for your [14:18] business. It should have real tools. It should  be calling the APIs. Maybe they're defanged. Um, [14:28] but it it has to really replicate what your agent  would do so that it's learning on what is real or [14:38] close to it at least. The tasks have to also  be very real. in the sense of the same tasks [14:48] that you want your agent to be doing. It needs  to be doing those tasks in the gym. And so, [14:55] um, building out the environment and the tasks,  very important, has to be real. And then verifiers [15:02] or reward function, this is the part that is  probably hardest to get right. And we talked [15:08] about it for the same reasons with the eval.  There's a lot of different things to measure. [15:14] The difference here though is if you have a reward  function that's not quite right, rather than just [15:20] measuring something wrong, your agent is going  to start to learn and get rein reinforced on [15:25] potentially the wrong things. So it's very  important to get the reward function built [15:32] out in a way that is rein rein reinforcing the  right things. And I'll just give one one example [15:39] uh from my personal life. I have a a two-year-old  and I've learned more about reinforcement learning [15:49] from watching him grow than I have from many  other things. Um, and so recently he was having [15:57] having pasta for the first time and he's throwing  pasta in the air. He's having a great time. He's [16:04] loving his food. He's throwing pasta. He's he's  whacking himself with it. I think it's hilarious. [16:11] I'm taking pictures to send to my parents. I'm  laughing. I'm like, "This is this is this is [16:17] great. He loves he loves pasta and I love pasta.  Yay. Awesome." Now, the next time he ate food, [16:25] he starts to throw his food. And I'm like, "Stop  that. Don't do that. What are you doing?" And he's [16:30] he's what do you mean? Like he he had just been  reinforced that it was a good thing to throw his [16:36] food to laugh and make a big mess. Now he's like,  I mean, he's not actually saying this, but he's [16:42] thinking, I can see with a look in his eyes, dad,  like, what are you doing? Why are you upset? This [16:47] is what you like. You laughed last time. Should  laugh again. I'm going to do this every time. And [16:52] so we we we we don't always reinforce the right  behaviors. And the same thing is true with models. [17:02] Um when the open AI models broke out, when Methos  Fable did that recently as well, um one of the [17:14] takeaways was that these models had been rein  reinforced to get the reward however necessary. [17:23] And so even though there were guardrails in  place like don't do this, don't do that, make [17:27] sure you're doing this, the model has one primary  goal and it's going to do whatever it can in order [17:33] to get that reward. And so it's very difficult  to design these in the right way. Um, but it is [17:40] possible and I'll now start talking a little bit  more about that. So when you're building a gym, [17:47] some of the things to think about I talked already  about it needs to be very real world relevant. The [17:57] difficulty one is also important. It can't be  too easy and it can't be too hard. If it's too [18:04] hard like the pass rate is zero, then the model  will get no signal or feedback to learn from. [18:13] If it's too easy, then it's not very helpful  either because it's not going to learn anything. [18:18] And this is particularly hard because models keep  getting better and better. And so finding that [18:25] happy medium, which is often times between like,  you know, a couple percentage points to maybe [18:31] 20% for the pass rate. It's hard, but it's even  harder when you think about it's only going to be [18:39] relevant for a moment in time because, you know,  the next model is going to be much better and [18:44] now maybe it passes 70% of the time and now this  gem is no longer as useful. I talked about most [18:52] of these other things already, so I'll I'll jump  ahead a bit. Um, the one though that I haven't is [18:59] contamination. So this ties in a little bit with  hackability, but you need to also make sure that [19:08] the model isn't able to just find the answer from  from from some other place. So not just hacking [19:15] into something, but also being able to find  the answer in training data if it has memorized [19:22] something already. So there's a lot of of of of  nuance there as well. So those are the principles. [19:32] Now we talk a little bit more about the metrics.  Pass at K is really just the pass rate. So again, [19:39] less than than 20% is really what you're  you're you're shooting for. The task diversity [19:54] has another thing that's very important. You  don't want all the tasks to be exactly the [19:58] same. You want to mix it up a little bit so the  model is getting more more more more more variety. [20:04] So things like making it use different tools,  different different um tweaks and nuances that [20:12] will help generalize so it's not super narrow in  what it's learning. Clarity is another one. Um how [20:21] clear is the task that the model is being given?  Um, in some cases it can be very obvious, okay, [20:29] there's only one way of doing this. In others,  the model may think, well, I could do this, [20:34] I could do that. And there are ways that  you can then look at what the model did, [20:38] looking at the the the traces so that you see  all of the different routes and paths it took, [20:44] and you can use that data to then modify or  refine your gym. And then lastly, hackability. [20:54] This one is really interesting because the way  that you try to test this is you prompt the model [21:02] to try and hack. So you can say like find the  answer from the internet and see if it can do [21:10] that. If it's able to hack it when you ask it  to, that means very likely it's going to hack [21:15] it when you don't ask it to. And so making sure to  also add those sort of like red team hackability [21:24] prompts and then um making sure that it can't  do those things is very important as well. [21:33] This is just a quick graphic. One of the  types of gyms that we've built are web gyms. [21:41] So this is trying to make make our model better at  things like browser use. So navigating a browser. [21:48] Um the RL gym concept has proven to be very  effective here. Things that you used to hard [21:58] code or used to say like you know um find this  UI element. When you give a model enough variety [22:07] from those those tasks and the UI elements,  it gets very good at navigating a browser, [22:14] for example. So, we've talked a bunch about RL.  One of the last things here that I want to touch [22:24] on is control and autonomy. So there are still  plenty of applications where the cost of being [22:33] wrong is just too high to let the agent run  off and do whatever it wants. And so there's [22:40] really like two primary ways that you can mitigate  this. One is you keep the human in the loop. This [22:47] is very straightforward. Now the cost of this is  that you have to use use use use person hours on [22:56] a task that maybe one day you would like to just  run on its own. But you can have the model or the [23:02] agent do most of the work and then you check in  at that last maybe 10%. Um and then over time as [23:10] you start to gain the confidence that it is acting  reliably as as as it earns your trust essentially [23:19] you start to move to a more fully fully agentic  flow and then the other one is using other models [23:33] as guard rails. So we do a version of this with  Nova where for safety applications we have another [23:42] very lightweight model that checks to make sure  that we haven't violated a guardrail. So if if a [23:53] a bad actor wants to use a model to do something  nefarious um we have this secondary model that if [24:02] it somehow made it through the main model it can  check that and say like ah that's not going to fly [24:10] and I'm not going to answer that. Now that doesn't  always work and so sometimes you need to use even [24:17] more models in order to make sure that you don't  have failure modes. There is a healthcare company [24:25] that has built a series of models. So they have  their main model and they have 22 separate models [24:31] checking for various errors. The cost of being  wrong there is someone could be hurt, seriously [24:40] injured, you know, maybe worse, right? And so  they they are willing to pay that toll basically [24:46] or the tax for more cost and more latency to  make sure that they don't have any errors. And [24:54] I think there last I had heard their their their  accuracy was like 99.99%. Uh so very very high, [25:02] but they can only get there by having these other  models help observe and and check the main model. [25:16] With all that said, there is still a a [25:24] class of tasks that are harder  for models than for humans. [25:30] And it may be a long time until we get to the  point where models, even though this last year has [25:37] seen tremendous progress, where models have gotten  so much better, it may be a while before that last [25:47] gap is truly met. And it may require different  different architectures. There's some really [25:56] interesting companies out there trying to do  different things. We'll see what actually works. [26:00] But things like world models is a well-known  example. There there's there's there's energy [26:06] based models. There's lots of different types of  of of architectures trying to mitigate these gaps. [26:18] One thing I think that's going to be important  here is giving models to context. And I use an [26:26] example here um of if if your boss tells you  something. You're not just hearing the words, [26:35] you're hearing the context, how he says it,  how she looks, her face, her body language. [26:45] you are you know the context of what was of rumors  going around the office. You know the context [26:51] from co-workers and so you're you're hearing  much more than just the words that your boss [26:59] is telling you. Models really don't have that  yet. And so until we can get to a point where [27:06] like there's just much more context and I think  we're getting there, but until we can get there, [27:11] there's just a there's a very big gap. And so  it's going to be really interesting, you know, [27:19] over these next six months, year, two years as the  models get better, the harnesses get better, evalu [27:31] I I I personally love this time because  it's never been easier to build. Um, [27:37] and that's only going to keep keep  keep keep going. Uh, so I hope I hope [27:45] you all are are are just as as pumped  up about it and uh you know willing to [27:50] learn and go on this this this this this  this crazy ride. Thank you. [applause] [28:03] So hi I am Nilatri from American Express. Uh so  just uh as we are looking into the presentations [28:09] right and we're doing an analogy of the gym. So  in gym what happens is like you know when people [28:14] work out together they also share tips right how  to do better. So in the agentic ecosystem we are [28:20] thinking about it when these RL gyms are out there  are these like self-contained containers where a [28:26] single agent works or is it like a sharable  environment where multiple uh trainings of [28:31] the agents are happening towards a common goal  and they share their state their understanding [28:36] their memory. Uh how does this happen internally?  Is is there a schema defined for that? It's really [28:42] interesting that there so there is not a shared  framework just yet that I know of. Now gyms are [28:51] reusable. So you can train multiple agents on  the same gym, multiple models. Um but as far as [28:58] I know, there's not a good way for those those  agents or like multiple agents to try and like [29:04] work together in a gym. Uh maybe you could design  a gym in a way that requires multiple agents, [29:11] but that's more of like a maybe a workaround than  like a true sort of architectural foundation. Um [29:17] but that's interesting. Maybe maybe one day.  Yeah. Thanks. What you described uh I guess [29:23] was uh related to reinforcement learning in  this environment. So just curious that how do [29:29] you converge uh you know especially when you are  dealing with uh such an open-ended environment [29:36] right where you have where it's calling different  tasks different tools and all that so are you not [29:41] dealing uh how do you handle that convergence  problem conver uh let me elaborate what I mean [29:46] by convergence reinforcement learning it based  on at least my understanding is that it becomes [29:51] very difficult to train RL models when the search  space is uh you know pretty high and uh you know [30:00] so that's why I think they do a lot of these  instruction fine-tuning and then they try to [30:03] trade once I'm just trying to understand in these  gyms if you start creating them uh do you have to [30:09] do anything to stabilize the training or uh how  exactly does the training of these models work? [30:15] Um I I think I think maybe what you're getting at  a little bit is is even like even like alignment [30:22] maybe convergence um it's pretty straightforward  in terms of the the reward function. So it's as [30:30] good as the the reward function I would say.  Um and if you don't really design it in the [30:38] right way then then you're going to have issues.  Sorry I have a quick question. um how are you know [30:45] you battling the uh I'm using a a the network  gymnasium there for uh adversarial AI uh um in [30:54] my PhD dissertation. How are you um navigating  intrinsic rewards versus exttrinsic and making [31:00] sure that the model is just not trying to obtain  rewards by any means but really leading down the [31:06] path of a goal. Yeah. So that's that's tied to  to to the hackability. So you do need to design [31:15] prompts that are more like red team prompts or red  teaming to make sure that the model isn't behaving [31:22] in a way that is um violating what you want. So  um designing things that ask it to try to find the [31:34] answer in the wrong way and if it is going to do  that well then it's going to do it even when you [31:41] don't ask it to. So it's really about how you're  you're designing sort of the the red teaming in [31:47] this case making sure that you you do have a  robust enough set of prompts and and verifiers [31:54] to sus that out. How do you practically preserve  memory for agents between like runs in the gym? [32:02] Like are you just creating a bigger context window  that's fed in every time to with what some of [32:07] the summary of what didn't work? Like how do you  preserve that knowledge for the future iterations? [32:13] Yeah. So the the idea is is is that this is a  feedback loop. So you're taking data from the gym. [32:22] So traces from the gym feeding that back into the  model training so that then it's learning from [32:32] those from that that that data and then when you  run it again it has already learned from that and [32:41] incorporated it so that it's it's it's meant to be  a feedback loop so that you're not just doing sort [32:47] of the same thing over and over again. when when  you run it, you then get data that then improves [32:52] the model and then when you run it again, it's  already learned from what had happened before. [32:59] So you're not having to keep like this big huge  memory database uh that then gets used at the very [33:06] end. It's this iterative continuous process. Are  you optimizing the harness as well as the model? [33:14] Is it both of them, just one of them? And how much  bang for your money can you get by just optimizing [33:20] the harness cuz potentially it's very cheap to do  so. Yeah, you you can do both, but they they are [33:28] different jobs. So you don't want to be trying to  mix the two. You want to focus on optimizing the [33:35] model where you keep the harness constant across  maybe a wide range of of of gyms. Um, and then [33:45] you can also do this where you mix mix up the  harness and you get get better at tasks for a a [33:53] particular harness. We do both and it just really  depends on on the goals of the particular team. [34:01] When we uh build a agent, our team u basically  use foundational models like Gemini or cloud and [34:08] then we design a skill which is a prompt. When  you mention about the reinforcement learning [34:13] uh does it only apply to these kind of skills  and prompt and how do you reward those uh skills [34:21] and sometimes we using the agent itself to design  the prompt have iterations uh can you share some [34:27] insight how do you structure those prompt to be  like better I think I think what so you're talking [34:35] about the prompts the prompts really um so there  there's a couple types of prompt. You have the [34:43] task which is generally like the the core prompt.  In this case, you have the system prompt which is [34:53] telling the agent sort of how it should behave.  Um we try not to mess with that. So in the gym, [35:00] we're we're really looking at the prompt in terms  of like the type of task that we're asking it to [35:06] accomplish. Um, and that task like the prompt is  part of the task. So you could think of it as like [35:15] the data that the customer brings, the prompt  that the customer asks, whatever is necessary [35:21] to get the agent to attempt to complete the task.  And so um, that's part of the task design. So, [35:32] making sure that there's there's diversity  in the prompt, that there's there's there's [35:42] clarity as well. That's part of building  a good task and and a good gem. So, [35:48] forgive me if you covered this in the early  part, but I made the mistake of going to another [35:52] presentation that was a lot less interesting  than this one. Um, for those of us who can't [35:57] afford to train our own models, how can you  use this technique to build training data [36:02] to then drive either a frontier model or an  in-house LLM? Yeah, it's a good question. Um, [36:09] and I think you you've you've touched on an  important point that I didn't make explicit, [36:14] which is that we're we're using these gyms to  train our nextgen model. U, you could also use [36:22] these gyms to train your own model. So you can  use this data to to fine-tune a model. There's [36:29] rein rein reinforcement fine fine tuning now  as well. Um so you could do that but if that's [36:36] not in the budget or that's not really something  that you want to go down. Um then it's more about [36:43] using using this as the eval. So like measuring  where there there are gaps. Um I know there are [36:53] lots of labs that like want to get better at  the tasks that customers customers care about. [36:59] So in certain cases you know we're working with  third parties as well uh you know building gyms [37:07] with them and if they want our nextg model  to be better at their task off the shelf [37:13] then maybe we'll we'll we'll we'll train on that  if that's what they want. Um, more often though [37:19] it's larger companies that want to build their  own model and so you know we'll work with them [37:26] to build an eval to build a gym that then they  can use to customize a model just because they [37:33] don't want to give up their data to you know  to a lab that then multiple customers could