Eight Sleep拓展中国增长极 创始人拟切入预防医疗并推进IPO

Eight Sleep拓展中国增长极 创始人拟切入预防医疗并推进IPO 智能睡眠设备的核心价值在于通过自适应温控等实时物理干预替代被动数据追踪，并依托连续生理监测将床铺转化为筛查早期疾病的预防医疗入口。 两位创始人阐述了 Eight Sleep 如何跳脱出手表手环等纯数据监测的被动逻辑，通过自研传感器与液冷双分区动态温控，将床垫打造成自动调节微气候与防打鼾的主动干预型“睡眠管家”。对话复盘了团队从电热毯原型机、赴华攻克硬件量产、熬过现金流危机直至盈利的硬科技创业之路，并解释了两万元定价背后类似特斯拉“Model S 阶段”的商业逻辑。此外，他们还分享了算法如何自适应中国用户的偏暖习惯、赋能 F1 车手及环法冠军的极限恢复，以及未来通过 FDA 认证与全身扫描迈向预防医疗的长期愿景。 Eight Sleep从被动监测转向物理干预，采用自研水冷床套配合AI算法，通过双分区动态温控最多可提升30%的睡眠质量，并借由抬高床架和自适应音频主动改善打鼾与助眠。 (3:45) 通过全套自研传感器与后台数十亿小时睡眠数据训练的AI模型，系统能通过静息心率与HRV异常在发热等临床症状出现前3至5天预警疾病，未来正申请FDA认证用于呼吸暂停监测与干预。 (9:48) 针对两万元人民币的高昂定价，创始人回应目前处于类似特斯拉“Model S阶段”，未来将逐步推出更平民化产品；同时中国已成其全球增长最快的国际市场，促使算法学习并适配了中国用户偏暖的体感差异。 (31:34) 从YC W15起步的十年硬件创业历程中，团队通过深入中国制造供应链度过量产与现金流考验，公司去年已实现盈利并进入全球35个国家，长期规划将推进IPO并拓展更多产品线。 (24:45)

Eight Sleep 联合创始人 Matteo Franceschetti 与 Alex Zatarain 认为，睡眠科技正从被动的数据监测演进为实时物理干预，其目标是通过无感硬件改善睡眠质量，并将睡眠场景转化为提供早期疾病预警的预防医疗入口。 无感物理干预：双分区液冷重构睡眠 (3:45) 传统可穿戴设备通常将生理数据作为追踪终点，而 Eight Sleep 提出将数据作为物理干预的触发信号。为了避免穿戴与充电带来的额外负担，团队选择将传感与调控模块整合进可适配各类床垫的智能床套中。系统采用双分区微气候设计，通过嵌入床套的细软管道进行水循环控温，旨在解决伴侣之间普遍存在的温差争议；官方称该温控方案最高可提升30%的睡眠质量。此外，硬件还搭配了可在打鼾时自动抬高头部的智能底座，并针对体温波动剧烈的孕妇群体开发了随孕周自动调节微气候的孕期模式。 从优化恢复到预防医疗：早期疾病预警 (9:48) 随着公众意识从宣扬睡眠剥夺的拼搏文化转向注重机能恢复的“Sleepmaxxing”，系统背后的 AI 算法被定位为无需人工介入的“睡眠管家”。在数据呈现上，平台更侧重过滤噪音并标记偏离个人基线的生理异常：算法模型监测到静息心率持续升高且心率变异性（HRV）显著下降时，通常可在发热或临床症状显现前3至5天预警潜在疾病。长期规划中，团队引用斯坦福大学关于单夜睡眠数据与多类疾病关联的研究，试图利用夜间数小时连续静卧的场景将床套升级为全身健康扫描设备，旗下“Eight Medical”目前正在推进睡眠呼吸暂停筛查与干预技术的 FDA 医疗认证。 跨越量产鸿沟：驻华打磨供应链与硬件突围 (24:45) 消费电子硬件无法通过软件热更新修补制造缺陷，必须经历 EVT、DVT、PVT 至大规模量产的严密工程验证，同时承受物料清单成本（BOM）、质保准备金与流动资金的严苛考验。为跨越实验室原型到量产交付的鸿沟，创始人早期曾驻扎中国数月，完成供应链遴选与常驻工程团队的建立。自2015年孵化于 Y Combinator 至今，公司历经十余年硬件与传感算法迭代，依托自有知识产权的传感器阵列建立数据壁垒，目前已实现商业化盈利，业务拓展至全球35个国家和地区。 高阶定价逻辑与中国本土化自适应 (31:34) 针对产品在美国约3000美元、在中国约两万元人民币的高昂售价，创始人将当前阶段类比为特斯拉早期的“Model S 阶段”，表示公司选择以实际干预效果建立高端品牌认知与健康利润率，待技术成熟后再逐步推出大众化产品线。自4月正式进入中国市场后，中国迅速成为其增长最快的海外区域。面对本土消费者对微信即时响应服务的高标准要求，以及中国用户在体质与偏好上较欧美用户普遍偏暖的特征，系统通过初始画像设置与整夜体征监测，依靠 Autopilot AI 算法动态学习区域群体的体温规律，实现算法模型的本土化自适应。 Eight Sleep 展现了将消费级硬件转型为预防医学基础设施的商业设想，但其当前的高昂定价与订阅门槛仍将其局限在专业运动员和高净值人群等受众范围内；未来能否顺利跨过医疗认证门槛并下沉至大众消费市场，仍有待工程降本与临床实践的进一步检验。

[3:45] Matteo Franceschetti: What if you could sleep only six hours and get more rest than when you were sleeping eight hours? [13:00] Matteo Franceschetti: 想象一下把当今顶尖跑车上最精密的液冷系统移植下来，不是给超级跑车散热，而是专门服务于你的床和睡眠。 [24:45] Matteo Franceschetti: I think we were lucky to be naive, because it's one of the things that if you know before you start, maybe you don't even start. [28:55] Alex Zatarain: 6 秒内得到响应 [31:34] Matteo Franceschetti: democratize sleep for 8 billion people [31:34] Alex Zatarain: compete on outcome [37:16] Matteo Franceschetti: less than eight for us is very difficult, is a disaster [39:01] Matteo Franceschetti: More products, more countries, more channels... and at a certain point probably an IPO.

[0:10] Foreman [0:33] Brian Johnson. [0:37] forch. [1:14] >> [music] [1:19] [music] [1:27] >> Fore [1:46] garment [1:51] HRV [2:02] Fore [2:21] sleep. [2:27] for [2:29] HRV [2:43] Kelly, Alex Zaring. [music] [3:02] [music] [3:24] Fore [3:45] Alex, welcome to Valley 101. [3:47] >> Yeah, thank you for having us. [3:48] >> I am really excited for this. Great to [3:50] meet the people behind a product that I [3:52] sleep on every night. I was really [3:53] excited when I unboxed the product. A [3:55] lot of my friends have been telling me [3:56] about it. I feel like you guys have [3:58] really made the brand known not only in [3:59] the tech circle but also just in [4:01] general. But um for the viewers who are [4:04] not really familiar with eatle, tell me [4:06] a little bit more about what you guys [4:07] are building here. [4:08] >> Yeah, we invented a technology that [4:10] improve your sleep. Everything starts [4:11] with a mattress cover that you can [4:14] install on top of your mattress, but [4:15] then we added other technology that will [4:18] help you mitigate snoring and also help [4:20] you fall asleep. But in general, we have [4:22] this vision about really enhancing sleep [4:25] performance. What if you could sleep [4:26] only six hours and get more rest than [4:29] when you were sleeping eight hours? And [4:30] in the meanwhile, we also want to track [4:32] everything about your health so you can [4:34] live a healthier and longer life. [4:36] >> So I guess the core technology here is [4:38] temperature control. You mentioned that [4:40] it was so cooler. Tell me a little bit [4:42] more about how that idea came about for [4:45] you guys when I guess when you guys [4:46] started building that. That was like [4:47] when you guys are 20, 24, 25. We started [4:50] working on this in 2014 the the first [4:54] time and we had this vision about the [4:56] ability to track everything about your [4:58] health and respond. The big difference [5:00] between what we do and wearables is that [5:03] the data is not the end point for us but [5:05] is just a mean to an end. The end is the [5:08] ability to respond. Temperature is one [5:10] of the ways we respond and is one of the [5:12] most effective. So each side of the of [5:15] the cover each side of the bed can have [5:17] a different temperature and that [5:18] temperature will dynamically adjust [5:20] based on your biometrics, sleep stages, [5:22] preferences and uh whatever you did [5:25] during the day. So sort of activities. [5:27] So temperature is the first big ones and [5:30] true temperature we can give you up to [5:31] 30% better sleep. Then there are other [5:34] technologies. There is one for snoring [5:35] mitigation. This is a bass that goes [5:37] underneath your bed and if you're [5:39] snoring, we are going to raise your head [5:41] and that should mitigate your snoring. [5:43] And then we also have a speaker in the [5:45] bass and we are able to play certain [5:47] sounds at certain moments of the night [5:49] to help you fall asleep. [5:50] >> And all of it is really personalization. [5:52] So as you saw, it's it's all these [5:54] different factors about your [5:55] environment. But when we started working [5:57] on what is now aid sleep, it was because [5:59] of this clear vacuum in the market where [6:02] like Matteo said, you know, wearables [6:03] may give you data. There are pharma [6:05] companies that create drugs to help you [6:07] fall asleep and help you stay asleep. [6:09] But the reality is that no one was using [6:11] technology to solve this problem of [6:13] humans struggle to sleep well. And [6:15] modern ways in which we live are getting [6:18] a bit in the way of our ability to sleep [6:19] really well every single night. So we [6:21] wanted to solve that. And we realized [6:23] that we have to personalize the night [6:24] for every human in order to do that and [6:26] that's what we do. [6:27] >> I wanted to talk a little bit more about [6:28] just sleep in general. I feel like we're [6:30] kind of in like a sleep maxing world. [6:32] Everyone suddenly started to care about [6:34] sleep a lot more. Was that the case when [6:36] you guys started the company? [6:37] >> No. No. No one was talking about sleep [6:39] now back in 2014. And I mean the world [6:42] was so different in terms of health and [6:44] wellness. You know the trends have [6:45] really accelerated I think over the last [6:47] six years. But no one would talk about [6:49] it in public as well like it wasn't [6:51] something you talk discuss with your [6:52] friends or it was sort of very private. [6:55] There were no technologies that were [6:56] really tracking sleep. Wearables were [6:58] starting to do it. There were a few [6:59] companies, you know, Apple was not even [7:00] in the wearable space at the time. So, [7:02] it was a very different world. And as [7:04] you're saying now, everyone cares about [7:05] their sleep and people are talking about [7:06] sleep maxing. People are talking about [7:08] recovery as a key component of [7:09] performance and health. So, the world [7:11] has really changed. [7:12] >> I feel like previously there was this [7:14] grind culture. Everyone is proud of not [7:17] sleeping, you know, waking up at 4:00 [7:19] a.m. and all that. And that has really [7:21] changed. What have you noticed, you [7:22] know, over the years of building this [7:24] product in terms of the cultural [7:26] reception of this? [7:27] >> Yeah. Well, I think a lot changed since [7:29] 2020. I think that there have been also [7:32] just social media has given us the [7:33] ability to discuss in depth so many [7:36] topics about health that maybe [7:38] previously were not. The explosion of [7:39] formats like podcasts and YouTube vlogs [7:42] and you just have so many great [7:44] individuals who are sharing some of the [7:46] science behind why you should be [7:47] sleeping and you know why it matters for [7:49] your longevity. We have people who are [7:50] friends of the brand like Brian Johnson [7:52] who are out there experimenting with all [7:53] these things around how can you live [7:54] longer. um that has fueled the [7:57] conversation for the average consumer [7:58] where they are seeing that media and [8:01] then they're also thinking well what [8:02] does that mean for me um obviously [8:04] technology companies like eight but many [8:06] others that are providing that data [8:07] every day has sort of opened the eyes to [8:09] people of wow actually I do feel better [8:12] when I sleep more so it's been a [8:13] combination of factors but it has [8:15] changed significantly I think post 2020 [8:18] to where we were before in the first [8:19] years of the company [8:20] >> I would almost simplify saying look 10 [8:23] 10 20 years ago So sleeping 8 9 hours [8:27] was seen as weak as like you're wasting [8:30] your time. You know, you're not uh [8:32] probably driven enough. Well, instead [8:34] now is literally perceived like going to [8:36] the gym. Okay, you're a healthy person [8:38] and then probably during the day you [8:40] will be also a top performer because you [8:42] will be sharp. [8:43] >> And so this shift is because of the [8:45] reasons Alexandra just described. And [8:47] it's it's pretty incredible and true, [8:49] which is the most important thing is [8:51] literally what science proves. How does [8:53] it fit into you know the biohacking [8:55] culture? I was you know in SF a lot. I [8:58] went to a lot of the peptide parties [8:59] where people inject stuff into their [9:02] their own bodies also to like optimize [9:04] sleep. Have you seen example of people [9:05] kind of biohacking their their own [9:07] sleeps? I think we're a bit past that [9:09] which is interesting. Like I do think [9:10] that um biohacking as a movement was [9:15] very strong in that 2020 to 2022 and [9:17] then it really just blended with general [9:19] wellness and what we're seeing now [9:21] around the world when we travel to all [9:22] these countries where we sell eight [9:24] sleep is that everyone's talking about [9:25] wellness in the sense of they want to [9:27] live healthier longer. So the sense of [9:28] longevity and so I think that sleep has [9:31] become more quote unquote mainstream [9:33] compared to say peptides that are sort [9:35] of more right now on the edges and [9:37] they're being adopted by people who are [9:39] in the early adopter circles. Definitely [9:42] in Silicon Valley you see a lot of that [9:43] because people tend to have appetite to [9:45] take risk and experiment and they're [9:46] doing all sorts of things. You mentioned [9:48] wearables. I feel like right now we use [9:50] so many technologies to track how we [9:52] sleep. I have a Garmin on on my wrist [9:54] right now and I feel like we have so [9:55] many metrics like REMM, deep sleep, HRV [9:59] like all of those words. What do you [10:01] think are the most important things when [10:04] it comes to sleep metrics or you know [10:06] just holistically are metrics important? [10:08] >> Well, a couple of things. So the the [10:10] first one is people obviously like [10:12] metrics but at the end of the day what [10:14] they pay us for is to do the job for [10:16] them. That is what we do through this [10:19] form of responses temperature and [10:20] elevation. At the end of the day, [10:22] another metaphor I like to use is we [10:24] built a sleep bottler for you that will [10:27] do continuous adjustment while you are [10:29] unconscious to deliver better sleep. So [10:31] this is an AI that is behind the scene. [10:33] It looks at the data for you and in real [10:35] time adjust temperature, elevation, [10:37] noise and in the future other factors. [10:39] So number one thing is you shouldn't [10:41] even look at the metrics. We just need [10:43] to make sure that when you wake up you [10:44] feel great. Then if you want to look at [10:46] the metrics because we all want I'm I'm [10:48] a a metric geek. I think the key thing [10:51] is to simplify things and uh highlight [10:55] when there are what we call internally [10:58] anomalies. So at the end of the day what [11:00] you want to know is is everything on [11:01] track? Yes. And then most of the people [11:03] are fine. Then if something is changing [11:05] in your body and our AI or our [11:08] intelligence is able to detect that you [11:10] have a certain likelihood to be sick [11:12] within two three days that is what we [11:14] should surface. And then there are [11:16] people like me and maybe you and we [11:17] really want to go deep into the data and [11:19] there is when you should have a [11:21] dashboard with HR, HRV, deep sleep or [11:23] RAM and so on. [11:25] >> How does it predict you know when you [11:27] were sick? [11:28] >> We have models that look at the bunch of [11:31] different biometrics. Usually the most [11:33] relevant are HR and HRV. And so you [11:35] start seeing a trend where your heart [11:37] rate at rest starts going up usually [11:39] three, four, five days before you get [11:41] fever and your HIV starts going down. [11:44] And so those are what we call anomalies [11:46] and that is how we are training our [11:48] models to be able to detect some of the [11:50] shifts in your biology. [11:52] >> Yeah. And I wanted to talk a little bit [11:54] more about you know why you guys choose [11:56] mattress cover. I know that you guys [11:57] pivoted a little bit cover then mattress [12:00] and back to cover and then there are so [12:01] many variables which seems to be the [12:04] usual way that people are going about [12:06] like with sleep tracking. Why did you [12:08] guys choose mattress cover in [12:10] particular? [12:11] >> Well first we wanted it to be seamless. [12:13] So for us when we think of sleep, we [12:15] didn't want to have to ask you to do [12:17] something else, right? Even wearing [12:19] something while you're sleeping or [12:20] having to remember to charge your Garmin [12:22] or your wearable every x days and [12:25] remember to do that or activating it or [12:28] anything like that like was out of the [12:29] question. We don't believe that that's [12:30] the right way to go, especially when it [12:32] comes to sleep. When you feel tired, you [12:34] should just be able to go to bed. And [12:36] like Matteo said, this sort of sleep [12:37] butler takes care of you. So embedding [12:40] something on the surface that you're [12:42] sleeping on felt the most natural design [12:44] option. And so that's why the mattress [12:46] cover that's the form factor we've had [12:48] since our very first product before the [12:49] pod. And we've sort of gone back and [12:51] forth in whether we sell it integrated [12:53] to a mattress or not. But in the end, [12:54] consumers wanted the flexibility to put [12:56] it on top of any bed they already had at [12:58] home. So it turned out to be the right [13:00] bet. [13:00] >> I would love to talk a little bit about [13:01] the technology that allows us to do [13:03] that. And what are your proprietary [13:05] technologies that you know kind of [13:07] optimize this temperature control and [13:09] help us feel comfortable? [13:10] >> We have filed many many patents. I I [13:12] think we have over probably 40 patents [13:15] in the in in that range. I mean we [13:17] really reinvented the technology from [13:19] the ground up. We came up with this [13:21] technology that is liquid base and uh we [13:25] the the science behind what we do and [13:27] the fact that temperature will improve [13:29] your sleep is something that has been [13:31] proven for probably I don't know 50 [13:33] years by now. So we didn't invent that. [13:35] That was already proven. What we did is [13:38] we were the the first company that was [13:40] able to create a consumer device at [13:42] scale that could deliver this value to [13:44] the average user. And another thing we [13:47] noticed was the need for couples. What [13:50] we see is 80 to 90% of the couples they [13:53] have different temperature preferences [13:55] and different needs. And that is where [13:57] we immediately found the product market [13:59] fit. So people like to joke saying that [14:01] we saved their marriage because they [14:03] were fighting with their partner about [14:05] different temperature needs. I want it [14:06] colder, I want it warmer and and so on. [14:09] And so we build this technology that um [14:12] uh has a device that sits next to your [14:14] bed and there is where the whole [14:15] intelligence leave and then there is [14:16] this cover where liquid cooling is [14:18] circulating. So thinking think of having [14:21] the most sophisticated liquid cooling [14:23] technology ever built, but instead being [14:26] maybe for your top car or super car is [14:28] just for your bed and for your sleep. [14:30] >> Yeah, I was actually quite surprised how [14:32] easy it was to assemble. Like I kind of [14:34] just pour water in and it worked. Was [14:36] that like a cautious decision between [14:39] like liquid cooling and I guess other [14:40] method? [14:41] >> Yeah, I mean ultimately because water is [14:42] the best material to actually absorb the [14:45] body heat. Our bodies are quite hot. [14:47] They're dissipating heat throughout the [14:48] night. here in bed for 6 to9 hours every [14:50] night and so the water can absorb that [14:52] and remove it from the surface of the [14:54] bed. Um so it's much more successful at [14:56] achieving and maintaining cooler [14:58] temperatures than air would be for [15:00] instance. So that's why liquid was [15:02] important to achieve our goal. But then [15:04] like Mattel said it's is really [15:06] sophisticated because we had to also [15:08] make it comfortable. When you're [15:09] speaking about being on the surface of [15:10] the bed you need to make it comfortable. [15:12] You need to make it reliable. We wanted [15:13] it to like disappear so that it wouldn't [15:15] bother you go in bed and it just feels [15:16] like your regular mattress that you had [15:18] bought previously, but now you have [15:19] these added benefits. [15:20] >> And uh going back to that couple point, [15:24] uh I thought that was really interesting [15:25] as you said people have different [15:27] temperature preference. Is there any [15:28] scientific evidence proven that you know [15:30] how like sleeping with a partner kind of [15:32] like affect your your sleep like your [15:34] partner's sleeping habits would like [15:36] change your sleep quality? [15:37] >> Yeah, I think we have data. [15:39] >> Yes. Yeah, there's definitely like a [15:41] very close connection. One because of [15:42] habits. So couples who are going or not [15:45] to bed like are keeping the same [15:46] bedtimes or wake up times like they will [15:48] influence their sleep significantly. Um [15:51] but even while you're in bed one thing [15:53] that we have seen in our data is that [15:54] women are actually heavily influenced by [15:57] having their partner in bed and their [15:59] HRV so their recovery tends to be much [16:02] better when they have their partner in [16:03] bed than when they don't. And so you [16:05] start seeing all these sort of [16:06] physiological effects of having your [16:08] partner with you um that are very [16:10] interesting. And so you would hear [16:11] anecdotally women would say like, "Oh, [16:13] it's much easier for me to fall asleep [16:14] with our partners with me or like I [16:15] sleep better." But then we actually see [16:17] in the data that it's true. The [16:18] challenge is that when you're sleeping [16:20] with someone again, their uh bedtime [16:22] routine, their wake up can bother you, [16:24] their temperature preference can bother [16:25] you. And those are some of the things [16:26] that we're solving here by giving each [16:28] partner the ability to define their own [16:31] side of the bed, their microclimate, [16:32] their own conditions, their own silent [16:34] alarms so that they interrupt each [16:36] other's sleep as little as possible. To [16:38] build on that, I wanted to talk a little [16:40] bit about women's health as well because [16:41] you guys launched the pregnancy mode. [16:43] Tell me a little bit about you know how [16:44] you guys discover that use case and you [16:47] know with like pregnancy and postpartum [16:50] how the sleep quality differ you know in [16:52] those period of their life. [16:54] >> Yeah. Well, I think everything that [16:55] we're doing in women's health is really [16:57] fascinating because you know there's a [16:58] lot of conversation about how little [17:00] women are really studied and anything [17:01] related to our health and wellness. it's [17:03] sort of harder to run clinical studies [17:05] for women because of the variations that [17:07] we have in our hormonal cycles. And we [17:09] said, well, that doesn't make sense to [17:10] us. Like, let's just figure out, given [17:12] that we have this incredible scale of [17:13] being in consumer's homes, let's figure [17:15] out a way to recruit women who want to [17:16] participate in studies with us. They're [17:18] already part of our user base so that we [17:20] can learn how women sleep. Let's [17:21] actually start contributing back to [17:22] science and like sharing some of this [17:24] data. So, women anecdotally would say [17:26] that as they go through pregnancy, they [17:27] start feeling warmer. They start feeling [17:29] sometimes even sort of hot flashes or [17:31] night sweats that they wouldn't have [17:32] before pregnancy. And then as they go [17:34] into postpartum, they have those effects [17:36] again, which almost feels like a little [17:37] bit of a pmenopause moment because their [17:40] hormones are starting to go back down to [17:42] where they were pre-reg. And we saw that [17:44] in the data. It was very clear. So as [17:46] the pregnancy advances and every week of [17:48] pregnancy, you do have different needs [17:51] in terms of what environment temperature [17:53] is going to keep you comfortable at [17:55] sleep. So we said, well, why don't we [17:56] build that? Let's actually use AI to [17:58] create this algorithm that's just going [18:00] to run automatically. If you tell our [18:02] product what week of pregnancy you're [18:03] in, what is your due date? It will just [18:06] manage the temperature of your bed for [18:08] you automatically. You don't have to do [18:09] anything. And beyond that, we have the [18:11] value that we have the data. So, we can [18:12] also tell you here's how your heart rate [18:14] is looking compared to pre-preg [18:16] benchmarks. Here's what your HRV looks [18:18] like, your breathing rate, which all of [18:20] those biomarkers change as a pregnancy [18:21] advances. And we can benchmark you. we [18:24] can tell you for the week of pregnancy [18:25] you're in whether those metrics are [18:27] looking quote unquote normal which also [18:30] gives women some peace of mind which is [18:32] so important in that phase of life. [18:33] >> Yeah. When you train the algorithm what [18:35] is the kind of the training data? Do you [18:37] think like we have enough data for from [18:40] you know like pregnancy and just like [18:41] women in general uh to train this [18:43] algorithm to make sure it's accurate. [18:45] >> We do because the thing that we have is [18:46] obviously all the people that sleep on [18:48] the pod we recruit from our user base. [18:50] So we have women opt in. [18:51] >> That's what's amazing. So we don't need [18:53] to go and like get that data from any [18:55] external source which obviously as you [18:56] said sometimes there's not enough or [18:58] there's not enough of the same quality [18:59] of data for us. We have this incredible [19:01] product in people's homes and our user [19:03] base is excited because we're going to [19:05] build something that's going to actually [19:06] benefit them because they they end up [19:08] using it. [19:09] >> What kind of feedback have you been [19:10] hearing? [19:11] >> So those two cohorts it's incredible but [19:13] they're some of their like highest [19:14] engaged cohorts. They just love the [19:15] features. We're building something that [19:17] no other technology company has done for [19:19] them because it's beyond tracking. So, [19:20] it's not just the data, but we're [19:22] actually solving a problem for them [19:24] through this response. And so, that's [19:26] just amazing for them. It's like [19:27] someone's finally building what I needed [19:29] and that is giving me a pregnancy that [19:31] means I can sleep better, a postpartum [19:33] that, you know, where I can recover [19:35] better. And when you think about it, in [19:37] those moments in your life, sleep is so [19:39] fundamental to your well-being. It [19:41] really is critical. It's probably the [19:43] most critical thing that you have to do. [19:45] >> Yeah, that's awesome. So, I guess it has [19:47] been over 10 years. Looking back, are [19:50] there versions of product that failed [19:51] and um what did you learn from that [19:53] experience? [19:54] >> Well, it's not that there was a version [19:55] that that uh failed. I think over the [19:58] years, we always kept improving what we [20:00] had both because technology became [20:02] better in general through AI and [20:04] sensors, but every iteration now for [20:06] example with the pod we are pod six with [20:09] the each iteration of this device is [20:12] better than the previous one. [20:13] >> And uh when it comes to the algorithm, [20:15] how large is the data set behind the [20:17] algorithm? What specifically is hard to [20:18] replicate about those data? [20:20] >> Well, it's billion of hours of health [20:22] data and so we collect multiple [20:24] terabytes of health data per day and the [20:27] only way you can do that is to be at [20:29] scale. So even if you were starting a [20:31] company today with a large amount of uh [20:33] cash in in the bank is literally [20:35] something you cannot buy even because in [20:38] our case we don't have offtheshelf [20:40] sensors but the sensors have been [20:41] developed in house by us and so to train [20:44] your algos on this specific type of [20:46] sensors there is only one company in the [20:48] world that can do it which is us [20:49] >> and I do also want to talk a little bit [20:51] about the ant go here you know in a [20:53] podcast I think two years ago you [20:54] mentioned that you wanted to solve [20:56] cancer with this technology tell me more [20:59] about just that connection. How do we [21:01] get from track and sleep data to you [21:03] know solve one of the hardest disease? [21:06] So first of all recently like probably [21:08] six months ago there was a paper [21:10] published by some scientists at Stanford [21:12] and what they proved is that with the [21:14] data of one night of sleep they can [21:16] detect 130 diseases and we started [21:18] seeing that in our back end meaning we [21:20] start seeing correlation between sleep [21:22] and diabetes and hypertension and other [21:24] diseases and we start seeing an accuracy [21:27] that based on an early test is close to [21:31] 90% accuracy this is something is [21:33] happening just because of AI is fairly [21:36] incredible how AI is triaging different [21:38] amount of data and and finding [21:40] correlations that maybe us as humans we [21:43] wouldn't have found. Then specifically [21:45] for cancer we have a vision for full [21:47] body scanning. We believe that while [21:48] you're asleep we could uh scan your body [21:51] and detect certain types of health [21:53] conditions including certain types of [21:55] cancer. [21:56] >> Yeah, it's really cool. At the end of [21:57] the day, if you think you're standing [21:59] still in the same position for six hours [22:02] and you are on a surface, lying down on [22:04] a surface that is really big, we have [22:06] space underneath your body and [22:07] potentially, you know, above your body, [22:10] then you start thinking first principle [22:12] in terms of technology. Okay, what can [22:13] you do to a body that is standing still [22:15] when you have all this space, Wi-Fi [22:17] connection and electricity? And I guess [22:20] to follow up on that, you are also [22:22] pursuing FDA clearance for this product, [22:24] you know, as part of the preventive care [22:26] and you guys publish an independent [22:27] study. Tell me just more about that [22:30] process and why did you decide to pursue [22:31] this role? [22:32] >> We are moving towards uh what know [22:34] internally we call eight eight medical [22:37] and so how can we pursue our medical [22:40] mission? How can we help millions of [22:41] people to really extend their life or at [22:44] least maybe even save their life? One of [22:46] the first step will be through sleep [22:47] apnea. uh step one of a journey that [22:50] hopefully will will last many decades [22:53] and um we have a technology that is able [22:55] to detect if you have sleep apnea while [22:57] you're asleep sleeping on the current [22:59] technology so it's a software update and [23:01] then we also develop a technology that [23:03] mitigates sleep apnea and we're pursuing [23:05] FDA approval for both of them. [23:06] >> Got it. Has there been any examples of [23:09] anyone you know benefiting from uh you [23:11] know seeing like signs of diseases early [23:13] from using your product even like in [23:15] your own experience because I assume [23:17] like you guys are the first users of the [23:18] mattress cover. What has kind of [23:20] surprised you while you were using uh [23:23] this product in your experience like if [23:25] I'm looking at your data and everything? [23:27] >> Well the most unexpected case is um for [23:30] people going through cancer. We didn't [23:32] expect that, but we discovered that uh [23:34] when they're going through chemo, they [23:36] have hot flashes and the body also um [23:40] becomes less accurate in temperature [23:42] management. And so we started seeing a [23:44] lot of people with cancer buying the [23:45] product. We didn't expect that. We [23:47] didn't know anything about that and now [23:49] we we fully understand the why. And our [23:52] goal is to start helping people uh in [23:54] with those condition as well. And there [23:56] have been cases too of people who have [23:58] written to you where they say, you know, [24:00] I've been sleeping on the pod for a [24:01] while. And so they have their their [24:02] data, right? So it's it sort of builds [24:04] this repository of what's happening [24:06] while you're sleeping to your body and [24:08] they um were not feeling great. They [24:11] checked their metrics on the eight app [24:13] and they saw that it had been a few days [24:16] where something was off. I think in this [24:17] case specifically was their heart rate [24:19] at rest and they decided to go to the [24:21] hospital. In the case of this one person [24:23] I remember, he said that he ended up [24:24] needing heart surgery. And so I think [24:27] that's an example of what data is doing [24:28] and sort of empowering us where it might [24:31] not be something that you're interested [24:32] in checking every day, but the fact that [24:34] you can passively track your biometrics, [24:36] it becomes such an important signal when [24:38] something does feel off or when we can [24:40] flag a certain trend like Matt was [24:42] saying earlier and then people can go [24:44] and do something about it. [24:45] >> Yeah. I wanted to move on to, you know, [24:47] you guys building this company. Being a [24:49] consumer hardware company, I think, you [24:51] know, we can all admit it's pretty [24:52] tough. When you guys were in YC back in [24:55] 2015, I assume there weren't that many [24:58] hardware companies in your batch. What [25:00] are the biggest challenges of building a [25:02] hardware company, a consumer hardware [25:04] company in particular? [25:05] >> Well, the the first part is to really [25:07] understand the the manufacturing, how [25:09] long it takes. Then you need to [25:11] understand the unit economics. is not [25:13] something you can adjust quickly. So [25:16] being able to nail what is your bomb [25:18] cost or the cost of production of [25:20] manufacturing of the device and what the [25:23] margins will be and then you need to [25:25] have enough cash or capital to handle uh [25:28] returns replacement the whole supply [25:30] chain uh the net terms or non-net terms [25:33] you get from suppliers in the early [25:35] days. I think we were lucky to be naive [25:38] because it's one of the things that if [25:40] you know before you start maybe you [25:43] don't even start in our case we were so [25:45] naive then we had to figure it out as [25:47] the problems were coming in and we did [25:50] it so now 10 years later uh company last [25:53] year was profitable strong unit [25:55] economics we sell in 35 countries strong [25:58] growth [25:58] >> yeah you mentioned that you flew to [26:00] China to uh was it like to tour the [26:02] factory or to you know [26:03] >> Yeah I moved to China uh for multiple [26:05] months because at the time we had [26:07] prototypes that were working but I don't [26:09] think we were fully aware of the delta [26:11] between having a working prototype and [26:13] something that can be fully shipped and [26:15] manufactured and so we had to learn that [26:18] and I moved there we selected the [26:20] manufacturers we also hired our first uh [26:23] employees in China which are still with [26:25] us they're actually the longest tenure [26:27] employee in the whole company outside [26:29] the founders uh Jack and Tony and yeah [26:33] those people that I found back then [26:35] they're still leading our group in [26:36] China. [26:37] >> What have you learned about [26:38] manufacturing from that like I guess [26:40] trip in China? [26:40] >> Well, the the first one and the biggest [26:42] is really this delta between uh uh a [26:44] working prototype and a final product. [26:46] And the main reason is to there are [26:49] first certain steps that you cannot [26:51] skip. It's called EVT 1, EV2 and DVTMP [26:54] and so on. But more than anything, these [26:56] steps are really key for the quality and [26:58] reliability of the device. So you [26:59] literally cannot skip them. At the [27:01] beginning founders, entrepreneurs they [27:04] always try to find shortcuts and they [27:05] think they can cut certain steps but [27:07] obviously manufacturing is something [27:08] that now has been tested for hundreds of [27:10] years from very smart people and some of [27:13] these things can literally not be uh [27:15] cut. [27:16] >> Yeah. And I wanted to talk a little bit [27:17] about the Chinese market which is one of [27:19] the main reasons we are having this [27:20] conversation here. So you guys started [27:22] selling in China since April. How has [27:24] that been? [27:25] >> It's been great. It's been our fastest [27:27] growing market. I think the reception [27:29] has been incredible. We were really [27:31] excited to get into China because in one [27:33] way or another, China has always been a [27:35] part of our journey as a business. Like [27:36] Matteo said, he moved there for many [27:38] months at the beginning and the [27:39] reception has been great. Just far [27:40] beyond what we expected. I think a lot [27:42] of excitement that the pod was finally [27:44] available. [27:45] >> That's awesome. What did you do like in [27:46] preparation for this launch? Did you [27:48] like go to China and like talk to the [27:50] market there, the folks there? [27:51] >> Yes, definitely. I mean, we've been [27:52] going to China now for years, so I think [27:54] like we were familiar enough like to [27:56] know sort of how different it is, right? [27:58] That's the first thing that I think any [27:59] brand coming from outside China realizes [28:01] and why I think most brands are scared [28:03] to enter is because it's really [28:04] different than marketing to the rest of [28:06] the world. But for us, it was an [28:07] exciting challenge. And what we did [28:09] first was build a team. So we built a [28:10] team that a marketing team that would [28:12] know the market that would be in China [28:14] that they could actually take the [28:15] leadership and guide us through what it [28:17] would mean to build the awareness of the [28:19] brand and also all the different [28:21] advertising channels and how they [28:22] performed. So that was that was our [28:24] strategy is hire the best people [28:25] possible to make it happen. Was there a [28:27] reason why you guys decide to do this [28:29] now in this market? [28:30] >> I think it just felt like the right [28:31] time. I think the brand's reaching a [28:33] certain point of maturity. You know, [28:34] we're in over 35 countries and so when [28:36] we think what is the next big market to [28:38] tackle like I mean China's always at the [28:40] top of the list, right? Like it's a huge [28:41] market. It's a market that's very [28:43] exciting. There's a lot of innovation. I [28:44] think the Chinese consumer right now is [28:47] definitely into everything related to [28:49] their health and their wellbeing as [28:50] well. So, we didn't want to be left [28:52] behind. like we are taking the [28:54] leadership around the world on [28:55] everything related to sleep and so we [28:57] want to be also the leaders in China [28:59] when everything that comes to sleep. [29:01] >> Yeah. I would love to hear a little bit [29:02] about you know what that market [29:04] surprised you because I you know growing [29:06] up in China always thought it was a very [29:07] competitive like consumer product market [29:10] you know when you were doing like market [29:12] research what about the market that [29:14] surprised you know even like pleasantly [29:16] surprised. Yeah, I think that it's a [29:18] pleasant surprise, but it definitely was [29:19] a surprise to see how demanding the [29:21] Chinese consumer is because as you're [29:23] saying, it's a market where you find so [29:26] many products, right? And there's this [29:27] availability of almost anything that you [29:29] would want because it's a country that [29:31] is manufacturing so much of what we use [29:33] around the world, but is really positive [29:37] to see that the consumer still demands [29:39] high quality and they want high quality [29:42] products, right? They're not just [29:43] compromising. They want the best. They [29:45] want the best service and um that's [29:47] something we have to build for. The fact [29:49] that the the way you interact with a [29:50] brand, you expect a very six-second [29:52] response on WeChat and like people just [29:54] need to be available 24/7 is something [29:56] that in other markets people don't [29:57] expect. Yeah. [29:58] >> Right. And so it's something of learning [29:59] curve, but it's been great because we've [30:01] also been able to bring those learnings [30:03] to the service that we provide outside [30:05] of China because we think that should be [30:06] the gold standard. [30:08] >> What cities in China organized in now or [30:10] is it mostly online? [30:11] >> Yeah, it's all online right now. Um and [30:13] we have a pop-up store in Janzen and now [30:15] we're looking at other locations as well [30:17] so we can bring the product to life in [30:18] person and people can try it and buy in [30:20] person too. [30:21] >> Yeah. I guess going back to uh the [30:22] Chinese market and really the global [30:24] market because sleep is something where [30:26] I guess individual physique uh matters a [30:29] lot and varies a lot. Like I for example [30:31] am a pretty hot sleeper. I cannot stand [30:33] any coldness. Uh but you know a lot of [30:35] people in western countries may have a [30:37] different preference. How do you guys [30:38] account for those preference across [30:41] cultures and regions and countries? [30:43] >> Yeah, it's something that we saw [30:44] actually when we were doing the [30:46] pre-market entry in China that we did [30:49] have to adjust our understanding of like [30:51] preferences for humans in terms of what [30:54] they want to feel like when they get in [30:55] bed because actually Chinese uh user [30:58] does prefer the bed to be slightly [30:59] warmer [clears throat] than what we see [31:00] in the rest of the world. And so the the [31:02] beauty of it is that the way we account [31:04] for is we just see the data and you see [31:05] the usage. So it's very easy like when [31:08] you're onboarding to the product you [31:09] give the product your preferences [31:11] because it starts from there like what [31:13] who are you and like you know male [31:14] female age etc but then also what do you [31:17] prefer so then the AI is just adjusting [31:19] automatically to that and then we can [31:21] start seeing patterns as the user base [31:22] grows in a certain market of like where [31:25] are distinct patterns than from what we [31:27] have seen in the rest of the world [31:29] >> and as you get more data does the [31:30] algorithm keep improving? [31:32] >> Yes. [31:32] >> Yeah. [31:33] >> Nice. I do want to talk a little bit [31:35] about the pricing strategy. Uh the price [31:37] point. So you guys sell in the US right [31:39] now is like around $3,000 for a mattress [31:42] cover. Uh that is quite expensive for [31:44] for a mattress cover. And China is a [31:47] market where really all the consumer [31:49] hardware companies I think compete on [31:51] prices. You know even with AI models [31:53] they like compete on prices. How do you [31:55] guys account for that difference? How do [31:58] you guys think about the pricing [31:59] strategy? Well, the way we think is just [32:01] to use some references, right? Think of [32:03] Apple or think of Tesla. Obviously, [32:06] right now we we are at the Model S if we [32:09] were Tesla. So, you should imagine the [32:11] Model Y, X and three to come. The idea [32:13] is to democratize leap for 8 billion for [32:16] 8 billion people. And so, over time we [32:19] will do it. The point is when you [32:20] develop a technology that is so [32:22] sophisticated usually at the beginning [32:24] is slightly more uh expensive but then [32:27] over time you find ways to optimize [32:29] through better engineering and that is [32:30] how you make it affordable. Then the [32:33] brand and our brand is aspirational and [32:35] that is where you can make reference to [32:37] an Apple. So we are not the type of [32:39] device that wants to be sold at the [32:41] cheapest price. That is not our [32:43] position. We just want to build the [32:44] greatest product and even if that [32:46] requires a slightly higher price that [32:48] that's what we want. Uh that's not our [32:51] focus but at the same time we want to [32:53] make it uh uh more I would say [32:56] democratic for 8 billion people. [32:58] >> Yeah. I think ultimately we don't think [32:59] of competing in price but we compete on [33:01] outcome. So if we are the product that [33:03] is going to help you sleep better, we [33:05] are confident people will buy our [33:06] product. [33:06] >> Yeah. You mentioned I think in a [33:08] previous interview that you really look [33:09] up to uh the luxury brand from your home [33:11] country in LA where when they raise [33:13] prices they actually receive more [33:15] demand. Is that kind of the model that [33:16] you guys are going after as well? [33:18] >> I don't think it's luxury meaning we [33:20] don't want to be positioned as a luxury [33:21] brand. Then one of the things I learned [33:24] from great Italian brands is this [33:26] obsession for quality and also obsession [33:28] for building a company that is [33:30] sustainable with margins that can take [33:33] you IPO and make sure that we are going [33:35] to be around for the next 30 years. But [33:37] the the the position is is not [33:39] specifically luxury. It's more what [33:41] Alexander said is all around delivering [33:43] the greatest product for sleep [33:45] enhancement. Because usually in Italy is [33:47] all about excellence, quality, slightly [33:51] higher prices but smaller scale and that [33:54] is how they generate enough bottom line [33:56] to have a great company. Well, instead [33:58] in the US is all about scale. But then [34:00] sometimes there is the risk of [34:02] compromising quality. And so I think [34:04] there are very few companies like Apple [34:06] and with Steve Jobs that was able to [34:08] almost find the balance between the US [34:10] way and the American way where they [34:11] created a product that is still [34:13] incredible is technologically advanced [34:15] but is still premium and uh uh something [34:18] that people desire and they don't want [34:20] to compromise on product just to [34:22] compress margins. [34:23] >> And so that is where Apple sits and that [34:26] is exactly what I love. You guys have a [34:28] lot of like celebrity uh users as well. [34:30] You know, this is kind of become like a [34:32] stats simple. What are the pain points, [34:34] you know, when it comes to sleeping for [34:36] those high performance individuals, the [34:40] athletes, you know, executives? [34:42] >> Well, I think it's the same as a regular [34:43] person, right? Like what's fascinating [34:44] is to see that after all these years [34:46] working in the sleep space, like we see [34:48] that humans, we sort of all share the [34:50] same sleeping problem. But obviously, [34:51] the one caveat would be like [34:53] professional athletes and athletes that [34:55] travel often. So we have a lot of F1 um [34:57] drivers who use the product and a lot of [34:59] them travel with it across all the [35:01] races. You know, they're traveling [35:02] across multiple time zones. They have [35:03] what like 20 something races in a [35:05] season. So it's like very grueling and [35:06] so for them recovery is important mostly [35:08] because they're just traveling so much [35:10] and they're sleeping away from their [35:12] bed. So they want to have the same [35:13] conditions wherever they go around the [35:15] world. Or we have, you know, NBA [35:16] athletes like in the United States, [35:18] they're traveling all around the US, but [35:20] they also have just, you know, they may [35:21] have a match on Tuesday and then they [35:23] have another one on Thursday and uh it's [35:25] late at night. And so those are very [35:27] particular cases, but we're all sharing [35:29] the same physiology, which is [35:31] temperature is still such an important [35:33] factor in our ability to fall asleep and [35:34] stay asleep. [35:35] >> Another great story is Pagacher, the guy [35:37] who has won multiple tour France. This [35:40] is the second year in a row where uh he [35:42] installs our product in each hotel of [35:45] each stage of the tour to France uh [35:48] which is what probably 20 20 to 30 [35:51] hotels every single night because he [35:53] can't sleep without our product to [35:54] recover and deliver the performance he [35:56] needs to win the tour to France. [35:58] >> For someone who travels a lot, what [36:01] would you say they should do to optimize [36:02] their sleep? [36:03] >> Well, I think the first is making enough [36:04] time for sleep. wherever you're in the [36:06] world, just making sure that you're [36:07] prioritizing that in in your day [36:10] schedule. Um, the second is consistency. [36:12] I mean, we travel often as well, and I [36:14] think when it comes down to beating jet [36:15] lag is trying to stay consistent with [36:17] your bedtime and wake up time regardless [36:18] of where you are in the world. And the [36:20] cues around temperature and light are [36:22] really the two most important signals [36:23] for your brain of when you should be [36:24] sleeping and when you should be awake. [36:26] So, use those cues to your advantage. [36:28] So, exposure to light and then also the [36:30] temperature. So dropping that core body [36:32] temperature in the evening so you can [36:34] fall asleep and then raising it in the [36:35] morning. That's what's going to help you [36:37] adjust as you go through the different [36:39] parts of the world. [36:40] >> Yeah, totally. So for you guys, you [36:42] know, after like over 10 years, do you [36:43] feel like you have figured sleep out or [36:46] >> Definitely. [36:46] >> I think Yeah, we do pretty well. We just [36:49] came back from the West Coast the other [36:51] day, slept 9 hours and 12 minutes and [36:54] that is how I started my Monday. [36:55] >> Wow. What do you do like during I guess [36:57] during the day to uh keep your sleep [36:59] consistent? I think it's just [37:00] prioritizing it, right? It's basically [37:01] saying at certain point of the day, no [37:03] matter how busy you are, you have to [37:04] just go to bed. You need to put away [37:06] your phone, your computer, and go to [37:07] bed. And like, as long as you do that [37:09] and you do it at a consistent time, it [37:11] becomes a routine for your body. So, [37:12] your body knows that by 1000 p.m. you're [37:15] tired, you're going to go to sleep. And [37:16] then you also I rarely use an alarm. My [37:19] body just wakes up naturally, but [37:20] because we are quite consistent with our [37:22] schedule. [37:22] >> What would you say is the How long do [37:24] you guys sleep? Every night. [37:25] >> Eight to nine hours. [37:26] >> Oh, wow. Every night. [37:27] >> Yes. [laughter] the less than eight for [37:29] us is a is very difficult is a disaster. [37:32] >> Wow, that's that's fascinating. So, you [37:33] really knows your body well. Yeah. Uh I [37:36] I actually want to build on that and [37:38] talk more about the culture because we [37:40] talked uh in the very beginning about [37:41] how kind of the culture surrounding [37:43] sleep has changed uh starting from [37:45] Silicon Valley and now like around the [37:47] world. Keeping a consistent sleep [37:48] routine, it's somewhat of a luxury for [37:51] and for a lot of people who have to work [37:53] maybe night hours or you know not [37:55] consistent hours every day. it is kind [37:58] of hard to like keep that. What does [38:00] sleep optimization look like for people [38:01] who may not have the luxury of keeping a [38:04] consistent schedule? [38:05] >> We get that a lot because we definitely [38:06] have some members who are um even people [38:09] who work at hospitals or you know [38:10] doctors and they have changing shifts. [38:12] And so what we know is that as much as [38:14] possible just still prioritizing sleep [38:17] in your day makes a big difference. So [38:19] even if the schedule is changing [38:21] continuously, if you just make enough [38:23] time for sleep, that will help you [38:25] because the biggest challenge people [38:27] have who have night shifts or who have [38:29] changing schedules is that they end up [38:30] not making enough time for sleep. You [38:32] know, they try to live the life of a [38:34] person who has a regular schedule but [38:36] they actually don't have one. Um so that [38:37] would feel like our first [38:39] recommendation. The other one we do see [38:40] with our product specifically that [38:42] because of the influence that [38:43] temperature can have in helping them [38:45] fall asleep faster and like get deeper [38:46] sleep that it gives them a boost. So [38:48] those hours that they are sleeping even [38:50] if they may be a little off to their [38:51] regular circadian rhythm because maybe [38:53] they were sleeping in the middle of the [38:54] day um the influence of that temperature [38:57] coming from the pod can help them [38:58] achieve higher quality sleep even if [39:00] it's in the middle of the day. [39:01] >> So my last question is what is the [39:03] vision now that you guys are in you know [39:04] 35 plus countries uh around the globe [39:07] and you know over 10 years of making [39:09] this product what are you planning to do [39:11] in the future? [39:12] >> More products, more countries, more [39:14] channels um and a certain point probably [39:17] an IPO. Yeah, totally. And I guess more [39:19] people to realize the importance of [39:21] sleep. Yeah. [39:22] >> Yes. [39:23] >> Great. Awesome. Thank you guys so much [39:24] for joining me. Yeah, this has been [39:26] great. Thank you. 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