Devon Larratt Drops Gym Lifting to Target Levan Sagashvili Rematch

PowerfulJRE

The veteran arm wrestler is sacrificing full-body athleticism to focus entirely on specialized, right-handed table training for a 16-month preparation block against the world champion.

AI-assisted summary of Joe Rogan Experience #2510 - Devon Larratt — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2026-06-05

Detailed notes

## Background This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features professional arm wrestler Devon Larratt and was published on YouTube by the PowerfulJRE channel on June 5, 2026. The page description notes that Larratt is a veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces and is widely considered one of the greatest competitors in the history of arm wrestling.

## TL;DR In this milestone episode, Devon Larratt discusses his transition from an elite special operations soldier in Canada's JTF2 to a full-time professional arm wrestler. He breaks down the deep technicality, unique anatomical adaptations, and extreme specialization—such as his intensive 'pumpkin training'—required to compete at the world-class level. The conversation dives into the history of legendary pullers, elite genetics, and the sport's global evolution, alongside Larratt's intense preparation for an upcoming rematch against the undefeated giant Levan Sagashvili. Beyond sports, Larratt shares wild personal accounts from his military tours, including bizarre encounters with regional giants and a chilling event involving alleged demonic possession.

## Atmosphere & style The podcast carries a deeply fascinating, gritty, and authentic vibe as it bridges the gap between extreme athletic mastery and intense military realism. Listening feels like sitting in a room with a battle-hardened yet highly philosophical 'psychotic farmer' who comfortably balances the brutal physical tolls of his sport with a witty, down-to-earth demeanor. The host-guest dynamic is intensely curious and supportive, shifting from amazement over freakish human physiology to shared awe regarding the mysteries of the wild. There is a profound underlying emotional arc of reflection, moving from the psychological terror of wartime operations to a personal sense of closure regarding Larratt's late brother.

## Key takeaways - [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1s) Devon Larratt makes history as the first professional arm wrestler to appear on the Joe Rogan Experience, discussing the physical toll of the sport, including his own 'weaponized arthritis' and limited elbow extension. - [17:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1073s) Larratt outlines his high-volume, low-weight recovery training philosophy, using high repetitions to pump blood through connective tissue as a therapeutic form of healing rather than heavy weightroom lifting. - [21:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1271s) Unlike contact sports, arm wrestling offers extreme athletic longevity, allowing top-tier open division world champions to remain highly competitive well into their 60s due to the decades it takes for dense hand and tendon tissues to mature. - [01:23:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5013s) Larratt explains his hyper-specialized 'pumpkin training' strategy, which focuses 85% to 90% of his finite training energy exclusively on his dominant right arm to build a singular lethal 'icebreaker' weapon. - [01:12:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4368s) The structural and financial evolution of arm wrestling, accelerated by a post-COVID digital boom on TikTok and YouTube, transformed the sport into a viable profession with elite modern competitors earning six-figure incomes through promotions like East vs. West. - [02:08:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7716s) Larratt reflects on his 20-year career in the Canadian Armed Forces, including 16 years in the elite Joint Task Force 2 (JTF2) unit, where he had to balance operational security anonymity with his rising public profile as a world-champion arm wrestler. - [02:16:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8201s) To cope with the extreme fear of night-time counterterrorism operations in Kandahar and static-line jumps, Larratt built an aggressive field persona and mentally accepted the worst-case scenario of dying to optimize his performance. - [02:27:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8848s) Larratt shares firsthand accounts of physical anomalies encountered during his military service and travels, including a sighting of an exceptionally massive local warlord in Afghanistan estimated to be over eight feet tall. - [02:36:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9372s) Larratt details a disturbing military account from Erbil, Iraq, where a fellow soldier allegedly experienced a severe demonic possession and displayed knowledge of people's deepest hidden childhood sins before undergoing a full exorcism.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1s) The GOAT of Arm Wrestling and the "Loudspeaker of the Planet"

The episode kicks off with immediate energy as Joe Rogan and his guest, veteran arm wrestler Devin Larratt, exchange warm greetings. Larratt expresses his immense gratitude and honor to be on the show, colorfully referring to Rogan as the "loudspeaker of the planet, man." Rogan laughs it off, admitting that holding such a massive platform is a "very uncomfortable position to be in" and feels incredibly weird.

Larratt points out that while Rogan has spoken to virtually everyone of consequence on earth, he is deeply honored to be the very first professional arm wrestler to grace the podcast. When Rogan counters that if he is going to feature an arm wrestler, it has to be the GOAT (Greatest of All Time), Larratt humbly pushes back. He acknowledges that the title is "highly debated," but smilingly accepts that he is at least firmly in the conversation alongside a couple of other legendary pullers, mentioning John Brzenk as a prime example.

[00:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=53s) Weaponized Arthritis: The Cost of Admission

Rogan admits he follows professional arm wrestling very little, but reveals he is utterly fascinated by a striking physical trait of Larratt's: his inability to fully extend his arms. Larratt laughs, confirming his elbows simply do not straighten out anymore. He jokes that this severe lack of extension heavily limited his reach when he famously tried to fight Hafþór "Thor" Björnsson.

Larratt traces the origin of this condition back to his youth. He began club arm wrestling around age 18, and by the time he was 20, he encountered an old, highly decorated champion known as "Crazy George." George famously couldn't straighten his elbows, and a young Larratt foolishly thought, "Oh man, I can't wait till my elbows don't straighten." His wish came true in his late 20s when his range of motion began to shrink drastically due to the relentless, intense pressure placed on the elbow joints.

To manage the chronic buildup of osteophytes, bone chips, and scar tissue, Larratt has undergone three surgeries—two on his right arm and one on his left—primarily performed by Dr. Pollock at the Ottawa Hospital, whom Larratt credits for extending his career. Rogan asks if the bone growth has ever constricted his nerves or blood flow, and Larratt confirms it has. He demonstrates his maximum extension on camera, revealing a severely locked, bent angle. Despite the physical toll, Larratt views it as a "small price to pay," noting that he is completely all-in on the sport and considers this "weaponized arthritis" the necessary cost of admission. He explains that the limited range actually helps him by initiating muscular and tendon resistance much higher in the movement, effectively giving him a "higher arm bar" position, though he jokes it wouldn't save him from being snapped by a skilled jiu-jitsu practitioner.

[04:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=288s) Agony, Anatomy, and David Goggins's Knees

Rogan recalls watching a video of Larratt training with fitness influencer Jujimufu (John Call). In the video, they used heavy metal bars to aggressively roll out Larratt's arm muscles, leaving Larratt in absolute, screaming agony. Larratt shrugs it off, noting he has simply accepted his condition. He explains that even though bone has been removed, the capsule and connective structures (like fascia) surrounding the joint have condensed to hold everything tightly together.

This anatomical marvel prompts Rogan to compare Larratt's joint adaptations to the legendary endurance athlete David Goggins. Rogan explains that Goggins has been running "bone on bone" in both knees for years. Doctors were baffled by how Goggins could even walk, let alone run thousands of miles. Rogan and his producer, Jamie, pull up "Wolff's law," a biological principle stating that bones adapt, thicken, and grow denser under extreme physical stress. In Goggins's case, the bone mushroomed out so severely at the top of the knee that surgeons had to saw a wedge off his tibia, lower it to create a flat surface, and screw it back into place. Goggins then famously rode a stationary bike like a maniac for five months before returning to running.

Larratt resonates deeply with the story, revealing that he has also been competing bone on bone with zero cartilage for roughly two decades. Fifteen years ago, a doctor told him his career might only last a couple more years. Yet, at 51 years old, Larratt proudly shares that he pulled off one of his best competitive performances just six weeks prior and is still ranked number one, proof that "you can do anything" when you refuse to quit.

- **Age of Devin Larratt:** 51 years old. - **First Elbow Surgery:** Occurred around 2013 (approximately 13 years prior to the discussion). - **Cartilage Loss:** Larratt has been operating bone on bone in his elbows for about 20 years.

[09:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=572s) The Monotony of Daily Grip Training

The conversation shifts to the grueling reality of pain management and physical preparation. Larratt views pain merely as valuable guidance information that highlights where a competitor needs to improve. He notes that rehabilitating and developing the heavily taxed tendinous structures of the elbow requires a massive amount of time and monotony that most people simply refuse to endure.

Rogan expresses frustration with his own grip training, stating he has been trying to jack up his grip strength using standard squeezers. While his hands have grown bigger and stronger from wrist curls, cable rotations, and forearm tools, he hit a hard ceiling at 164 pounds of pressure and cannot break through to his goal of 200 pounds. Rogan complains that his hands are constantly tired and sore because he doesn't know when to rest. When Rogan asks Larratt how many days a week he trains his grip, Larratt immediately replies, "Every day. All day."

[11:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=677s) The Technical Nuance of "Rising"

Larratt clarifies a major misconception about arm wrestling: while a powerful grip is immensely important, the true technical mastery of the sport lies in making your opponent hold onto *you*. Grip strength is largely a defensive tool or an added offensive measure, but the premier objective is to tax the opponent's hands and fingers.

To illustrate, Larratt introduces the fundamental opening move of technical arm wrestling, a concept called "rising"—frequently dramatized in the Sylvester Stallone movie *Over the Top*. Rising is an upward, spinning, and slipping motion designed to establish a higher, superior grip. Instead of a standard, symmetrical palm-to-palm grip where the opponent is highly efficient, rising forces the pressure directly into the opponent's fingertips. By manipulating the interaction to be completely unfair, any move the opponent attempts is forced through their weakest structural system: their fingers. Larratt notes that out of his typical 21 working sets in a daily workout, only one set is purely dedicated to isolated grip, as the rest of his volume is distributed across these complex positional pressures.

[13:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=830s) The Life of a Retired Puller

Larratt describes his highly structured, simple life as a retired military veteran who now dedicates 100% of his time and energy to arm wrestling. His training regimen is structured around a weekly cycle. He trains intensely with his local club twice a week. These are his "redline" days where he completely maxes out his capacity alongside his training partners and his son, who has also become a professional competitor.

The remaining days of the week are entirely consumed by extreme, mindless monotony. Larratt wakes up and trains all day long using specialized equipment. Rogan brings up a video of Larratt working out on a unique machine, and Larratt explains it is a classic arm wrestling table fitted with a custom cable pulley system. This specific table is a 40-year-old piece of equipment handed down from legendary champions Leanne Drain and Johnny Roberts.

Using attachment handles like a thick PVC tube—which they call a "multi-spinner"—Larratt can replicate the precise vector pressures of a real match. Because the multi-spinner utilizes a single-point attachment, it creates an unstable surface that forces the wrist and fingers to constantly stabilize. Larratt humorously equates the device to a "Swiss ball for the wrist," comparing its balance-intensive mechanics to performing squats on an exercise ball in a commercial gym.

[16:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=995s) The Mechanics of Instability and High-Rep Recovery

The conversation kicks off with a brief back-and-forth clarifying fitness equipment, distinguishing between a half-sized Bosu ball and a fully round Swiss or yoga ball. A Swiss ball is "way more unstable," which mirrors the core concept of the speaker's arm wrestling training—creating intense instability through the wrist. In arm wrestling, the foundational movements center around top rolling, hooking, and pressing.

The speaker showcases a video of his own training routine, prompting an exclamation from the host: "And you just do [ __ ] like this all day." The speaker explains that the footage captures his final basement workout recorded six or seven weeks prior, right before his match against the Russian champion, Vitalia Leton. Even during this tapering phase, his routine consists of massive volume, usually hitting around 100 repetitions per movement to maximize blood flow. When asked if he is lifting about 50% of his max weight, the speaker reveals he actually uses "nothing"—amounting to a very light 20 pounds.

* **Base Arm Wrestling Moves:** Top rolling, hooking, and pressing. * **Repetition Target:** 100 repetitions per movement to promote localized circulation. * **Taper Weight:** Approximately 20 pounds (essentially "nothing" for the speaker). * **Past Opponent:** Russian champion Vitalia Leton, fought roughly 6–7 weeks prior.

---

[17:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1073s) Training Philosophy: Heavy Table Time vs. High-Rep Healing

The speaker describes himself as an experimenter who has tried countless training systems before settling on his current routine. His entire philosophy revolves around dedicated arm wrestling practice days where he pushes his body to the absolute limit. Conversely, his off days—Tuesdays and Wednesdays—are spent strictly on light, high-rep movements designed to pump blood through the fascia and connective tissue chains. The goal is pure circulation. When asked why he favors this over low-rep, heavy strength training, the speaker notes that energy resources are finite.

Because his most valuable training happens directly on the arm wrestling table, he aggressively cuts out any heavy weightroom lifting that drains his energy or interferes with table performance. While many people look at his 100-rep sets and view them as exhausting labor, the speaker views the high volume as a therapeutic necessity, stating, "the high rep training heals me... it's a form of healing almost." Over the years, he has disproven critics in the strength community who argue that high-rep endurance work makes an athlete weaker. He notes that when using light weight all day, the accumulated "work volume is tremendous" and the total tonnage lifted becomes "astronomical," driving incredible long-term structural adaptations. Now at age 51 and "plagued with injuries," this precise, high-volume blood flow formula is the only way he can keep his tendons and ligaments functional.

---

[21:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1271s) Athletic Background and the Safe Fight

Reflecting on his younger years, the speaker laughs off his early approach to the sport, admitting he made countless mistakes by simply trying to "lift as heavy as I can." The host points out the speaker's naturally massive frame and genetic bone structure, asking if he started out as a powerlifter. The speaker explains he actually has a highly diverse, cross-trained background: he was a judo player, a basketball player, a military serviceman, and he even competed in a military version of the Iron Man. He clarifies that a military Iron Man differs from a traditional one because competitors run with heavy backpacks, paddle, and portage canoes, finishing in roughly 5.5 to 6 hours. Even in that world, his size was an anomaly, as most champions are average-sized or smaller.

Despite his varied athletic career, arm wrestling was his first love, sparked at just four years old when he would pull with his grandmother, Leavonne. He jokes, "Never underestimate the power of a grandmother," fondly remembering how his German mother ran a strict household, but his grandmother would reward him with arm wrestling matches after he finished his chores. He adds a "trippy" detail: he never managed to beat his grandmother, and coincidentally, the current super heavyweight world champion is also named Leavonne—a competitor he has similarly never beaten. Ultimately, he fell in love with arm wrestling because it satisfies his lifelong passion for combat sports at a "super low cost." Unlike sports where athletes get punched in the head or destroy their spines, arm wrestling allows longevity; top-tier open division world champions can compete into their late 60s.

---

[24:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1454s) The Anatomy of Age and the Legend of Crazy George

The speaker explains that the human hand is uniquely designed for volume because its structure is packed with dense connective tissues and tendons that take decades to fully mature. This slow structural accumulation turns aging into a legitimate advantage in arm wrestling, allowing the 51-year-old speaker to compete at the highest level and still feel he has room to grow. Beyond the physical mechanics, his deepest love for the sport stems from its blue-collar, tight-knit community. Arm wrestling clubs operate with minimal money, open doors, and no membership fees, with athletes training intensely in each other's garages and houses.

While typical arm wrestlers peak in their early 30s, the speaker highlights clips of his legendary club mates, including a "tremendously jacked" 230-pound professional puller named Pork Chop who competes in the elite East versus West league. The tape shows Pork Chop getting his wrist completely bent back by "Crazy George," a 160-pound icon in his late 60s who possesses heavily locked-up arms that cannot fully straighten. George spent his first 20 years in the sport going "two up, two down" at double-elimination tournaments before completely revolutionizing the sport by mastering a highly defensive, body-weight-dropping style known as the "outside top roll" or "king's move."

---

[27:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1647s) Muscle Weaponization and the Future of Genetics

The mechanics of arm wrestling break down into specific directional forces: rising strength, pronational strength, and cupping strength. The speaker points out a striking visual of his own forearm on screen, showcasing a massive, highly isolated pronator muscle bulging near his elbow. The host and crew react with disbelief, staring at the unique muscular development. The speaker jokes that it is his dream to see IFBB professional bodybuilders strike "pronator poses" on stage, guiding the host to turn his thumb down and pop his wrist back to find his own vastly smaller muscle. In an outside top roll or king's move, everything relies on weaponizing this twisting pronational force. The hand's complex angles create a constant battle between one athlete's pronation and the opponent's "cup" (flexion). The speaker notes he spent 30 years studying George's style because his own early coach, Troy Eaton, could never figure out how to beat him.

The conversation shifts back to how the speaker maintains this elite performance at 51, which he attributes to his obsessive training volume and "freaky genetics." This prompts the host to mention a mutual friend, a geneticist named Ryan Rosner, who frequently marvels at how unusual the speaker's DNA is. The speaker pivots to the broader societal impact of genetic mastery, calling it one of humanity's highest future priorities and advocating for universal genetic swabbing at birth to accompany official healthcare records. Looking at real-time news, the host reads a headline from a study by Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and Harvard Medical School published in the *Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences*. The study outlines how scientists used genetic tools like CRISPR to successfully silence the extra chromosome 21 activity that causes Down syndrome, which currently affects 1 in every 640 babies born in the United States. The segment wraps up as the host presses the speaker to recall exactly what Ryan said was so anomalous about his own DNA.

* **Key Strengths in Arm Wrestling:** Rising, pronation (twisting), and cupping (flexion). * **The King's Move:** A highly technical defensive style mastered by Crazy George that relies on a combination of joint locks, body-weight drops, and intense pronation. * **Down Syndrome Metric:** Affects 1 in every 640 babies born in the United States, making it the country's most common chromosomal condition.

[33:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2012s) Elite Genetics and the "Bible" Peak of Human Performance

The conversation dives into the fascinating world of elite human genetics, with the speaker self-deprecatingly noting that as a high school-educated guy who frequently hangs out with a researcher named Ryan in Austin, he simply absorbs all the information he can. He believes his own genetics predispose him toward endurance rather than raw power, though he admits he would "sound silly" if he tried to break down the science too deeply. The real intrigue lies in Ryan’s current research project, which scans elite physical performers to pinpoint highly favorable genetic mutations.

The ultimate example of this genetic anomaly is strongman Brian Shaw, whom they jokingly say is "in the Bible" because people like him make stories like David and Goliath feel historically real. Brian's genetic makeup is an ultra-rare 1-in-500-million phenomenon, placing him right at the absolute peak of human performance. It is not just his freakish bone density or his champion mindset that sets him apart; he possesses a completely unique, molecularly different mutation in his growth hormone that Ryan has never witnessed in anyone else.

* **Brian Shaw's Rarity:** His genetic profile is estimated to be a 1-in-500-million occurrence. * **Physical Stats:** Brian stands at almost 7 feet tall and weighs roughly 400 pounds. * **Growth Hormone Mutation:** Unlike normal individuals, Brian possesses a completely distinct molecular variant of growth hormone.

[36:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2179s) Genetic Anomalies, Stop Codes, and the Mystery of Muscle Fibers

The speakers transition into discussing how genetic mutations express themselves, touching on the idea of "stop codes" on genes. The speaker explains his layman's understanding of how mRNA interacts with a gene, noting that a stop code essentially prevents a specific gene from expressing itself. This leads to a baffling contradiction in the sports world: there are world-record deadlifters who, according to their genetic testing, possess a natural stop code on their fast-twitch muscle genetics.

This revelation sparks an intense debate about how a world-class powerlifter could excel without fast-twitch fibers, given that a deadlift is inherently a fast-twitch, explosive movement. They ponder whether this is due to a scientific misunderstanding of what fast-twitch fibers actually do, or if these athletes' bodies somehow compensate using other musculature. The speaker jokingly asks strongman Eddie Hall not to sue him before revealing that Eddie famously has this exact stop code, yet still moves incredibly fast and hits "so fucking hard" when striking training mitts.

* **Genetic Stop Codes:** A mutation where a code prevents specific genetic traits from being expressed when mRNA processes the gene. * **Eddie Hall's Contradiction:** Despite holding world records in strength and demonstrating extreme explosive power, genetic testing shows Eddie Hall has a stop code for fast-twitch muscle fibers.

[38:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2288s) Myostatin Inhibitors and the "Hulk" Whippets

The discussion shifts from muscle fiber types to myostatin, a protein that naturally regulates and limits muscle growth so bodies do not get too large. When someone has a myostatin inhibitor mutation, their muscles grow unchecked. The host asks to see an image of a "whippet" dog with this mutation, reacting with pure laughter and disbelief, remarking, "That doesn't look like a real dog. That's a crazy bodybuilder dog."

While a regular whippet is a notoriously skinny, fast, greyhound-looking animal, a whippet with a myostatin deficiency looks like a freakish, cartoonish version of the Hulk. This same genetic phenomenon is responsible for the absurdly muscular Belgian Blue cattle. The speaker points out that these mutations exist naturally in some humans as well, which has paved the way for modern genetic therapies.

* **Myostatin:** A regulatory protein that signals to a cell to stop growing once it is big enough. * **Folstatin:** The biological "turnkey" that signals a cell to grow; it acts in direct opposition to myostatin. * **Belgian Blues:** A breed of beef cattle famous for having natural myostatin deficiencies, resulting in extreme muscle hypertrophy.

[39:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2394s) Folstatin Gene Therapy and Spine Inflation Technology

The conversation evolves into the commercial availability of genetic therapies, specifically Folstatin injections. Because an individual's natural folstatin levels drop as they age—causing them to shrink and lose muscle mass—Folstatin therapy was initially engineered as an anti-aging remedy. However, it is now readily available to "anybody with enough money" who wants to rapidly boost athletic performance, such as football players or powerlifters looking to get "fucking huge."

Switching gears to structural health, the host highlights a wild new medical breakthrough for disc degeneration, a common affliction for heavy lifters and anyone who does jiu-jitsu. While spinal discs normally squash down and lose their soft cushion from years of heavy compression, this new therapy allows doctors to inject a substance directly into the spine to literally inflate the discs. The host passionately advises listeners to avoid dangerous back surgeries, fusions, and artificial replacements at all costs now that these non-surgical alternatives are emerging. He also heavily endorses Louis Simmons’ invention, the "reverse hyper" machine, which he keeps both at his home and his studio to decompress his spine and strengthen his lower back.

* **Folstatin Therapy:** Used primarily for longevity and anti-aging to maintain muscle mass, but heavily utilized by athletes for performance enhancement. * **Disc Inflation:** A cutting-edge injection therapy that re-inflates compressed spinal discs, potentially eliminating the need for spinal fusions. * **The Reverse Hyper:** An exercise machine invented by Louis Simmons that decompresses the spine during the execution of the movement.

[42:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2529s) The "Juicy" Future of Aging Athletes and the Enhanced Games

Looking toward the future of sports, the speakers express optimism that medical advancements will continue to push the boundaries of athletic longevity, to the point where a person might not even become a sports champion until they are 60 years old. In regular sports, this longevity is being driven by performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs), peptides, stem cells, and testosterone. While combat sports strictly prohibit these substances, the host notes that when older athletes are allowed to use them, you get a terrifying competitor who pairs a lifetime of veteran fight intelligence with the explosive body of a young man.

The host's favorite example of this is "TRT Vitor" (Vitor Belfort in his prime around age 37), describing him as the scariest, most superhumanly fast version of a fighter because he was completely "juicy." This prompts a critique of the "Enhanced Games," a drug-tested alternative sports concept that ultimately failed to deliver the freakish world records people expected. The speaker explains that true, freakish strength cannot be built in a three-month drug cycle; it takes decades of grueling training. He points to legendary fitness personality Juju Mufu as an example of someone who has spent a lifetime building a massive, highly flexible frame that "would melt a piss cup."

* **TRT Vitor Belfort:** An iconic era of the UFC fighter at age 37, where Testosterone Replacement Therapy allowed him to retain youthful speed alongside veteran experience. * **The Enhanced Games:** A real-world sports concept allowing PEDs, which failed to yield massive records because superhuman athletic adaptations require years, not months, to develop.

[45:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2750s) Juji Mufu and Unlocking the "Two-Hand" Table Work Method

The conversation shifts entirely to Juji Mufu, a fitness icon known for his mind-bending flexibility and mass. Juji started out in "tricking"—a discipline the host jokingly mistakes for a less-than-reputable street activity before learning it is actually an intense blend of acrobatics, gymnastics, and flips. Despite being in his 40s, Juji remains incredibly massive, healthy, and celebrated as one of the most positive creators on YouTube.

The speaker reveals that training with Juji a year and a half ago completely revolutionized his entire philosophy on arm wrestling. During a grueling session where they were "redlining," Juji helped him unlock a deep understanding of sport-specific training. In their club, they use a system where the "senior" member holds a defensive position while the "junior" member works at maximum intensity. To level the playing field and allow the senior member to truly redline his exertion, they utilize "two-hand work," where one person uses both arms against the opponent. This session was so profoundly effective that the speaker completely stopped heavy gym lifting altogether, realizing that sport-specific table holding was far more critical to his success than traditional weightlifting.

[49:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2990s) The Evolution of Training and a Balanced Protocol

An intense circuit training session followed by an evening club workout served as a definitive tipping point for the speaker. Earlier in the day, he had demonstrated all of his latest priority exercises, but when it came time for the night's "awesome two-arm work," he realized that the earlier singles had drained his energy. Determined never to let his table training suffer again, he committed to pouring his full energy directly into it. Even at 51 years old and with over 30 years of competitive experience in the sport, he emphasizes that he is still learning and actively changing his approach from event to event, which his host notes is a true sign of keeping the sport fun and growing.

To manage this, the speaker relies on a personalized training balance or "recipe" that he created entirely by himself. He constantly watches other sports and looks for ways to improve, tweaking his protocol based on performance outcomes. If things are going well, he keeps the routine stable; if he underperforms, he adjusts. That particular night of underwhelming table performance convinced him to eliminate heavy weights because he realized how incredibly effective proper table training can be. He cautions, however, that two-arm work must be done correctly, warning that "if you do two arm work wrong, it can hurt you. It can set you back."

[51:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3101s) Specialization Versus Cross-Training

The speaker acknowledges that his extreme hyper-specialization draws significant criticism from others. Aside from arm wrestling, his physical activity is remarkably minimal, admitting, "I go for walks. That's it. I'm terrible." While he is attempting to minimally reintroduce some overall body training, he prefers pure specialization over cross-training. Having once been a broadly fit human being, he consciously chose to sacrifice full-body athleticism for elite success. He frames this choice bluntly: he could choose to be a healthier individual who runs, squats, and deadlifts, "or I can be a little bit of a [piece of shit] and be pulling for world title shots."

The host pushes back, arguing the common philosophy that heavy compounds like squats and deadlifts build a stronger core, foundation, and overall base strength that naturally translates to everything else. While the speaker admits that almost every reasonable person gives him this exact advice, he remains uncertain. His single-minded focus remains on a singular question: "If I want to beat Levan, what do I do from here?" His instinctual answer is always to simply add more precise movements like wrist curls rather than general strength exercises.

- Current walking weight: 265 lbs. - Competition weight capability: Up to 300 lbs. - Target weight for the next rematch: 310 or 320 lbs.

[53:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3220s) Chasing Levan Sagashvili: The Pinnacle of the Sport

The conversation shifts to the ultimate benchmark in the sport: Levan Sagashvili. The speaker describes Levan as the undisputed "pinnacle of our sport," a massive athlete from the country of Georgia who weighs around 420 pounds. The host reacts with pure astonishment at Levan's photos, questioning if the images are AI-generated, and jokingly describes him as looking like a "primitive man" and a "science project" due to his immense, hairy physique. The speaker defends Levan warmly, calling him a very smart, cool, and beautiful human being, even though Levan has "beaten the piss out of me at every opportunity."

Unlike the speaker's hyper-focused routine, Levan utilizes a different formula that includes incredibly heavy rows, pull-ups, and a "stupid" 180-kilo curl. While acknowledging Levan's evolution through the World Championships—and jokingly giving a "shout out to steroids" and the scientists involved regarding Levan's physical transformation over the years—the speaker notes that he cannot train like a 25-year-old anymore due to past surgeries. He believes his own training is far more precise, targeting tight angles, pronation, and hand control, whereas Levan operates like a sledgehammer. Knowing he can never match Levan's raw weight, the speaker aims to defeat him through micro-advantages, like a pitbull nipping onto a fingertip. To pack on the weight needed to face him, the speaker avoids weightlifting and instead chooses a simple plan: "Eat. Stay in my basement."

- Levan Sagashvili's weight: ~420 lbs. - Levan's undefeated streak: Undefeated since 2017. - Levan's curl weight: 180 kg (two hands). - Speaker's competitive career span: 32 years.

[01:00:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3646s) The Haunting Open Division and Legendary Foes

The speaker explains that while he has the 105-kilo and 115-kilo divisions safely wrapped up, it is the absolute Open Division that truly haunts him. Chasing Levan is what motivates him to keep grinding in his basement, stating, "when you're not the champ, you're not happy." He details his history pulling Levan, recalling that during their first match, Levan literally tore his bicep off. The speaker even points out a tattoo of a cat with "415" on his arm, explaining that he used to tease Levan by calling him a "415-pound [pussy]," and added the text "Levan was here" to mark where the muscle was ripped in the second round.

Their second match in 2024 was the closest the speaker ever got, managing to achieve a "stop"—a state of deadlocked, zero movement where neither side is winning. They went to the straps, a common occurrence in modern arm wrestling when hands slip apart. During that intense encounter, the speaker top-rolled into Levan's wrist but was in such shock that he failed to seize the initiative. Levan transitioned into a flop wrist press, and the speaker was hit with a decisive second foul for "decline humerus," which occurs when the shoulder drops below the table line. The match resulted in a loss, leaving him unable to walk properly for four months because Levan "ripped my spine apart."

The conversation concludes with a look back at the sport's history. In 2008, the speaker won a monumental match against John Brzenk, the undisputed Greatest of All Time. Brzenk famously went virtually undefeated for about 25 years, competing from age 18 until nearly 60. The speaker notes that Brzenk was the real-life inspiration behind Sylvester Stallone's character in the movie *Over the Top*, confirming that the tournament featured in the film was entirely real.

- Year of match against John Brzenk: 2008 - Year of the speaker's last match with Levan: 2024 - John Brzenk's undefeated run: ~25 years - John Brzenk's current age: 60 or 61 years old

[01:06:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3991s) The Legend of John Brzenk

The conversation turns to the legendary movie *Over the Top*, which famously followed an arm wrestling tournament won by John Brzenk. The speakers marvel at the fact that Brzenk is not a massive man. On an absolute peak day, he might weigh around 230 pounds, but during his younger, healthier prime, he dominated the sport at just 195 to 210 pounds. For roughly 25 years, Brzenk went around the planet beating absolute monsters who dwarfed him. The secret to his success was simple: he was a masterful technician who started arm wrestling as a child with his father.

Brzenk uniquely shaped the evolution of arm wrestling into a respected sport. Forty years ago, the general consensus was that a person got better at arm wrestling by doing standard gym work—building up the pecs, glutes, and overall bodily strength. Brzenk pioneered a hyper-focused approach, proudly identifying solely as an arm wrestler who practiced at tournaments and skipped weightlifting entirely. While he stood around 6'1" or 6'2" and possessed a thumb "bigger than mine," his real superpower was an unmatched technical prowess that sat way above anyone else in the world.

- **John Brzenk's Prime Weight:** Maintained around 210 lbs for 25 years, dropping down to 195 lbs when young/healthy, and reaching 230 lbs on a great day. - **Physical Stature:** 6'1" or 6'2" with an exceptionally massive thumb. - **Era of Dominance:** Ruled the arm wrestling world silently for decades before the advent of the internet.

[01:08:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4084s) Table Time Over Weightlifting

The speakers express genuine disbelief that Brzenk never lifted weights, relying entirely on "table time" to build his strength. The speaker recalls hearing mythic stories about Brzenk for years before ever seeing him in person due to the pre-internet era. Brzenk silently ruled the globe, culminating in the speaker winning the world title from him in 2008. Reflecting on that victory, the speaker notes how much the sport has changed, calling himself "the last of the small super heavyweights"—bigger than John, but not by much compared to the modern giants of the sport. They note other pivotal figures like Denis Cyplenkov (Slankoff), a famous arm wrestler who raised the strength bar entirely, winning a world title almost effortlessly.

The community thoroughly worships Brzenk as the undisputed "GOAT" and forefather of modern arm wrestling. The speaker confesses to reading every single thing Brzenk wrote while coming up in the sport. Brzenk became the ultimate poster boy for athletic specialization. When asked if Brzenk had a secret training setup hidden away in his basement, the speaker dispels the rumors, stating that everything points to pure, unadulterated table practice since childhood. They review old footage of a 17-year-old Brzenk defeating the original king of arm wrestling, Johnny Walker, famously known as "The Iceman."

- **2008 Title Match:** The speaker defeated John Brzenk to claim the world title. - **Denis Cyplenkov:** Noted as a legendary figure who shifted the sport's strength requirements. - **Johnny Walker:** Nicknamed "The Iceman," he was the original king of arm wrestling until a teenage Brzenk defeated him.

[01:11:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4261s) The Physiology of Arm Wrestling Soreness

The sheer physicality of arm wrestling is enough to shock athletes from other disciplines. When powerlifters or strongmen try the sport, they experience a tier of soreness that leaves them completely incapacitated. The speaker shares personal anecdotes of being so incredibly sore after matches that he could barely move, let alone walk or get out of bed for days at a time. This happens because of human anatomy; the body is naturally designed to resist external forces rather than initiate them.

Arm wrestling hones in on this specific locking strength. Competitors get into rigidly fixed positions and try to force the other person's arm open. The physiological process of being "ripped open" is intensely taxing on the muscles and tendons. Despite the brutal toll it takes, Brzenk managed to rule this painful world for a quarter of a century. He is still active in the community, and the speaker notes he is scheduled to speak with him the very next day. Brzenk still harbors desires to compete, having last faced Yoshi Kanai, the number one arm wrestler from Japan, in a match in Dallas.

- **Anatomical Principle:** Humans are structurally stronger at stopping things from happening (resistance) than making things happen. - **Yoshi Kanai:** The top-ranked Japanese competitor who faced an older Brzenk in Dallas.

[01:12:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4368s) The Evolution and Financial Rise of the Sport

Arm wrestling underwent a massive structural evolution as it moved out of the underground. Around the turn of the millennium, international governments began recognizing it as a legitimate sport. This structural shift brought a massive influx of cash and systemic support to countries like Georgia, Turkey, and Kazakhstan, allowing athletes to become full-time pros. Even recently, countries like Sweden have officially recognized it. This global growth merged various fractured regional leagues—such as the PAL in Europe and the WAL in North America—eventually allowing top-tier athletes to comfortably quit their day jobs around 2015.

The growth was heavily accelerated by media pieces like the documentary *Pulling John*, alongside wealthy enthusiasts funding leagues like Robert Drenk's Ultimate Armwrestling League (UAL) in California. The speaker contrasts the modern era with his early days, remembering when winning $500 at the Mike Gould Classic felt like the greatest day of his life. By 2010, tournament payouts hit $10,000, and WAL's expansion pushed prizes to $20,000 alongside ESPN television coverage and sponsorships.

- **Government Recognition:** Shifted heavily around the year 2000; Sweden officially recognized it as a sport within the last year. - **Financial Growth Milestones:** Went from $500 local prizes (Mike Gould Classic) to $10,000 (PAL) and $20,000 (WAL) with ESPN coverage by 2015.

[01:15:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4523s) Post-COVID Era and the UFC of Arm Wrestling

When COVID-19 hit, it effectively "burnt down everything," destroying the fractured regional leagues that kept North American and European athletes isolated from one another. From these ashes, a massive digital boom occurred on TikTok and YouTube as a locked-down global audience discovered that arm wrestling was perfectly tailored for short digital attention spans. This media surge birthed "East vs. West," which the speaker characterizes as the undisputed "UFC of arm wrestling." This premier organization gathers the absolute best athletes globally for international events occurring every seven weeks.

Winning a world title is vastly more difficult now than it was 15 years ago due to titans like Levan Saginashvili. Financially, top guys no longer need side gigs and easily clear a healthy six-figure income. Interestingly, East vs. West does not feature any drug testing, earning it a comparison to Formula 1 racing, where "everything goes" and the focus is on absolute innovation. For those seeking a tested environment, athletes look to the World Armwrestling Federation (WAF), a government-funded pyramid system featuring state, provincial, national, and annual world championships.

- **East vs. West:** The premier international arm wrestling promotion, hosting events every 7 weeks. - **Financial Status:** Elite modern arm wrestlers earn a healthy six-figure income. - **World Armwrestling Federation (WAF):** The drug-tested, government-funded amateur and professional base of the sport.

[01:17:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4670s) The Philosophy of Chaos and Order

The universal appeal of arm wrestling lies in its simplicity; almost everyone has arm wrestled a peer in high school. The speaker expresses a deep love for the sport's safety, longevity, and purity. However, as an elite athlete dives deeper into the technical subtleties, the sport transcends physical mechanics and overflows into lifestyle principles. The speaker notes that his biggest athletic gains now come from how he structures his life, finding a delicate "balance between chaos and order" to achieve perfect performance.

This philosophy was heavily inspired by a presentation from a geneticist named Mack, who detailed how life only thrives in the boundary between chaos and order. The speaker implemented this into his training using a childhood tactic: a sticker chart. Using only two stickers—blue for chaos (failing to meet strict parameters) and white for order (perfect structure)—he maps out his training cycles. Following a major competition, he intentionally plunges into a planned state of chaos. This doesn't mean letting his life catch fire; rather, it means letting go of strict routines, traveling, opening up his mind, and gathering fresh data to form a superior plan for his next training block.

- **The Training Chart:** A binary tracking system using blue stickers to represent chaos and white stickers to represent order. - **The Levan Block:** The speaker is currently entering a massive 16-month preparation block to face Levan Saginashvili, utilizing the early phase for travel and open-ended chaotic exploration before locking back into his basement.

[01:23:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4993s) The Psychological Toll and Pumpkin Training

To remain disciplined at 51 years old, having a definitive "finish line" of four or five months is a necessary psychological aid. Without that strict timeframe, lifestyle creep sets in and things fall apart. Setting a timeline allows for a controlled amount of chaos that satisfies human nature while still permitting a temporary escape from the box of rigid dedication. The hardest part of being a world champion at this age is funneling all available energy into a task as remarkably simple yet psychologically grueling as performing 10 hours of wrist curls a day. The routine involves waking up in the morning, getting assistance from a spouse, Jod, eating, and doing continuous repetitions.

Currently, a new formula is in development for the next project, but the previous routine consisted of 14 total sets—split into seven sets of two—because both the right and left arms were being trained. Now, the focus is shifting entirely back to "pumpkin training," which means specializing exclusively on the right hand. The term comes from the agricultural practice of growing giant competition pumpkins. To grow an 800-pound pumpkin, a grower must pinch off all the other flowers on the vine except for one, directing the plant's entire energy reserve into a single prize fruit.

* **Daily Routine:** Up to 10 hours of wrist curls a day, facilitated with help from his wife, Jod. * **The Metaphor:** "Pumpkin training" refers to pinching off all other options to grow one massive point of focus, mimicking giant pumpkin farmers who remove all flowers but one from a vine. * **Training Shift:** Moving away from a balanced 14-set routine (seven times two for right and left) to absolute specialization on the right arm only.

[01:25:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5117s) Specialization and the Finite Energy Theory

Adopting absolute specialization means doing absolutely "nothing" with the left hand—no wrist curls and no specific training whatsoever. This hyper-focused strategy is an exercise in energy resource allocation. The visual difference between the arms is striking; the right forearm has grown to be "twice as big" as the left. This extreme imbalance is a deliberate tactical choice. Previously, a balanced approach yielded world championships in both the left and right hand categories, but aging necessitates cutting out extra physical demands to remain at the very top of the sport.

This training philosophy is built on the belief that human energy is finite rather than limitless. A bodybuilder might strive for proportionate development, but reaching the absolute pinnacle of arm wrestling requires being "very specialized and very focused" so the body knows exactly where to direct its developmental resources. This method draws heavy, continuous criticism, primarily from more junior players in the sport. Senior, elite arm wrestlers generally understand the logic because most of them practice resource allocation to a certain degree, though this particular routine represents the absolute extreme.

* **Physical Asymmetry:** The right arm has become twice as large as the left arm due to years of unilateral specialization. * **Past Achievements:** Formerly held world champion titles with the left hand before retiring it from active training to preserve energy. * **Resource Allocation:** The core belief that the human body possesses a finite pool of energy that must be concentrated on one objective rather than spread thin to achieve bodybuilding symmetry. * **Community Reception:** The method receives "heaps of criticism" from junior competitors, while senior peers generally validate the strategy.

[01:27:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5234s) Real-Life Hellboys and the Blood Flow Theory

The sport of arm wrestling naturally attracts "freaks" and unique individuals who serve as real-world examples of extreme physical asymmetry. Competitors like Oleg Zhokh and Matthias Schlitte are described as "real life Hellboys" because they possess a single arm that is insanely jacked while the other remains completely normal. Zhokh, a world champion who competed at around 165 to 170 pounds, possessed the left arm of a 300-pound man. Years ago at the Unified Forearm Championship (UFC), he nearly defeated the reigning heavyweight world champion despite the massive weight class difference, proving capable of competing near the top of the open division.

Zhokh's arm is remarkable not just for its hypertrophy, but for its unique muscle insertion points and altered skeletal angles. This distinct morphology stems from what is theorized to be an arterial blood flow disorder. While most people feature an even distribution of arteries across both sides of the body, these unique individuals appear to possess a heavy, congenital arterial spread dominant on one side, a condition likely determined *in utero*. This real-world anomaly highlights the immense value of targeted blood flow; circulation is what inherently heals and strengthens tissue, especially since the heart alone isn't strong enough to fully feed these dense structures without repetitive movement. Zhokh even managed to return to the top of the 85-kilo division as world champion after surviving a catastrophic car crash that caused severe trauma and broken bones.

* **Oleg Zhokh:** A world champion competitor weighing 165–170 lbs with a left arm scaled to a 300 lb man, featuring unique muscle insertion points and structural angles. * **Matthias Schlitte:** A prominent German national champion who exhibits the same one-sided physical extremity. * **The Arterial Theory:** A personal theory formed after conversations with Schlitte suggesting these athletes possess an uneven, heavy arterial spread to one side developed *in utero*. * **Recovery Anecdote:** Oleg Zhokh successfully rehabbed back to world champion status in the 85 kg division after surviving a near-fatal, high-trauma car crash.

[01:32:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5574s) Redefining Balance and the Concept of the "Icebreaker"

After temporarily backing off from extreme unilateral training for a couple of years, the routine has swung back to high asymmetry for a final competitive preparation. While homework in the basement used to sometimes be equal, the current split is heavily skewed, consisting of 85% to 90% work dedicated to the right arm, with only 10% left-arm work left in just to maintain timing. At the arm wrestling club, the approach is to pull everyone available right-handed until the room grows bored, only throwing in token left-handed work at the very end. Fears of developing severe back alignment or structural imbalances never manifested in reality.

The conventional notion of physical balance is ultimately "overrated" when the sole objective is winning a world title. While balance is a pleasant concept for an imaginary world, real-world elite performance requires sending an unconfused signal to the body. This mirrors strategies seen in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu; for example, Eddie Bravo focuses his lethal attacks almost exclusively on the right side of the body. In high-level competition, having a definitive "icebreaker"—a hyper-developed tool that can reliably stop a match or secure a win—is everything. Sacrificing 15 points of performance on the left arm to elevate the right arm from a 99 to a 100 is a trade any elite competitor would willingly make.

* **Current Training Split:** 85% to 90% of home training is performed on the right arm, leaving roughly 10% for the left. * **Club Strategy:** Training right-handed continuously with all available partners until they tire of it, followed by minimal left-hand tracking. * **Jiu-Jitsu Parallel:** Eddie Bravo’s strategic philosophy of perfecting a hyper-lethal right-sided attack system rather than forcing perfect symmetry. * **The Competitive Trade:** Shifting a primary weapon from a 99 to a 100 is worth letting the opposite side wither away.

[01:35:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5738s) The Grip Strength Anomalies of Rock Climbing

An interesting crossover exists between arm wrestling and elite rock climbing, a sport famous for producing ridiculous grip strength that acts almost like a "cheat code" when brought to the table. On his YouTube channel, elite climber Magnus Midtbø highlighted a French-Canadian climber named Yves Gravelle, who also trains directly with local arm wrestlers. Gravelle is a literal physical freak who possesses leg-sized forearms on a compact frame and is capable of performing unbelievable feats, such as doing complete pull-ups while hanging from a ledge the thickness of a credit card or holding onto completely rounded, chalked surfaces with zero lip to bite into.

Gravelle brought this specialized background into arm wrestling while weighing only 150 pounds. He entered the Ottawa Open—a notoriously tough regional tournament that regularly draws the strongest competitors from the area—and won the entire event after training in the sport for only six weeks. Beyond climbing and arm wrestling, he dominates the highly specialized world of grip championships, which functions essentially as powerlifting for hand strength. The crossover potential between these disciplines is immense, driven by the unique adaptations built through years of micro-edge finger hanging.

* **Yves Gravelle:** An elite grip competitor and rock climber weighing 150 lbs with massive, leg-sized forearms. * **Freakish Feats:** Renowned for performing pull-ups off a 2 mm edge (the width of a credit card) and hanging from smooth, vertical, rounded surfaces. * **Instant Success:** Won the prestigious Ottawa Open title after only six weeks of formal arm wrestling training. * **Grip Championships:** Dominates the grip sport community, a discipline described as "powerlifting for grip."

[01:39:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5942s) The Wall vs. The Climber and the Ottawa Super Freaks

The discussion opens with an analogy comparing rock climbing to arm wrestling, specifically looking at how grip strength functions differently in each sport. While a great grip allows a climber to scale a wall, an arm wrestler actually wants to "be the wall" rather than the climber, turning themselves into an immovable structure that makes it incredibly difficult for the opponent to hold on. The speaker notes that while elite climber Eve is fully capable of climbing any wall, once he figures out how to conceptually become the wall in arm wrestling, "he's going to be so so difficult." This transitions into a broader reflection on the sheer talent entering the sport, particularly at a club in Ottawa that is now populated by "super freaks" and new guys possessing "ridiculous potential," including one individual who is physically larger than strongman champion Brian Shaw.

- Arm wrestling strategy requires becoming "the wall" rather than "the climber" to break down an opponent's grip. - The speaker's home club in Ottawa is currently experiencing an influx of high-potential pullers, including one man larger than Brian Shaw.

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[01:39:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5984s) The Phenomenal Grip Strength of Magnus and Eve

The hosts shift to reviewing video footage of elite climbers displaying jaw-dropping feats of hand and forearm power. They watch a clip of a 150-pound climber lifting the famous Thomas Inch dumbbell, a feat they call "nuts" and "crazy" for someone of that weight class, especially while performing a pinch grip. They also marvel at Magnus Midtbø, noting that despite not being a massive individual, he is "crazy strong" and has been filmed training alongside Eddie Hall, doing one-arm rows with 180 pounds on each side. The speakers find this level of force production "bananas" because Magnus is completely dwarfed by the sheer strength of Eve, who is widely considered the strongest climber in the world.

- Eve is noted for his highly detailed, progressive, and "science-based" training methodologies. - Aside from elite climbing and arm wrestling, Eve’s primary profession is an artist who crafts movie masks. - Magnus Midtbø is highlighted for performing single-arm rows with 180 lbs on each side despite his smaller stature.

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[01:41:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6070s) Crossover Potential and the Scientific Approach to Training

The conversation turns to why more people do not adopt extreme climber-style grip training if it produces such a massive structural advantage. The speaker explains that while there are extreme "levels of specialization," Eve's decades of grip work have an immense crossover into arm wrestling. Even though Eve has been in the sport for less than a year—having only started the previous November—the speaker talks to him every week and believes he possesses "world championship potential." The speaker advises Eve that his rapid progression will come from mastering precise movements to "become the wall." What sets Eve apart is his unique, highly scientific approach to recovery; unlike traditional arm wrestlers who train through pain, Eve conducts systematic grip tests before every workout and will completely abort a session and continue to rest if his metrics do not feel right.

- Eve has been arm wrestling for less than a year (since November) but is projected to reach the top North American pro level within 2 to 3 years. - Eve utilizes pre-workout isometric grip tests to gauge recovery, choosing to cancel training sessions if his baseline performance is down. - Arm wrestling relies heavily on a locked isometric or negative strength capacity to maintain structural integrity.

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[01:44:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6299s) Measuring Raw Power and the Grip Strength Leaderboard

The speakers examine video clips of Eve executing isometric wrist tests with elastic bands and weights to measure his static capacity, which they identify as the exact type of locked, maximum output strength required for arm wrestling. This prompts a comparison of grip strength numbers across different athletes using dynamometer scores. They recount that elite climber Adam Ondra pulled a 161, which is roughly identical to other top climbers. In contrast, heavy-hitting UFC fighter Derrick Lewis casually pulled a 218 without appearing to try, thanks to his "giant paws." The conversation peaks when discussing Russian puller Vitali Laletin, who held the grip world record by registering a staggering 351 pounds (154 kg) on the device.

- Climbers like Adam Ondra register around 160–161 lbs on grip dynamometer tests. - UFC heavyweight Derrick Lewis achieved a 218 lbs grip test score. - Vitali Laletin holds an elite status in the community, documented hitting a massive 351 lbs (154 kg) on a grip device.

---

[01:49:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6554s) The Illusion of Size vs. Tendon Strength

An entertaining back-and-forth ensues as one speaker claims his own grip score is likely a terrible 70 pounds due to being "crippled," which the other host vehemently rejects as "literally not possible" given his background. The speaker recalls that in his youth, he could close a Captains of Crush No. 3 gripper for eight or nine reps, but when handed a 200-pound gripper on the table, he struggles, laughing it off and telling the host, "You should come and arm wrestle with us." They analyze how elite athletes like Marine veteran Michael Eckert (Instagram: `@michael_eckert_fit`) can register a 262-pound (119 kg) grip score and perform crazy one-arm pull-ups despite looking like a normal, fit guy in a t-shirt. They conclude that in functional disciplines, force is often driven by profound tendon strength rather than massive muscle bulk, though "grip is only a small part of control" compared to managing hand angles and wrist rotation.

- The speaker previously could close the Captains of Crush No. 3 gripper for 8 to 9 repetitions. - Michael Eckert (`@michael_eckert_fit`), a Marine fitness influencer, is highlighted for his 262 lbs (119 kg) grip score and specialized knurled-metal testing tutorials. - True arm-wrestling hand control is dictated by the ability to manage angles and spin, with raw crushing grip serving as the final inflection point.

---

[01:53:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6780s) The Mythic Status and Rumored Protocols of Denis Cyplenkov

The segment concludes with the speakers looking at images of the legendary Russian arm wrestler Denis Cyplenkov, whom they affectionately refer to as a "freak" and "something real." They marvel at his hands, exclaiming they "don't even look real" due to their unnatural, massive thickness. The dialogue shifts into the rumors surrounding Cyplenkov's physical longevity and his open attitude toward performance-enhancing substances. They debate a viral rumor regarding his chemical protocol, with one mentioning reports of him taking an astronomical 100 units of growth hormone a day, while the other notes that Cyplenkov reportedly debunked that specific figure. They agree that such an extreme dosage would mimic a severe pituitary disorder, causing a person to "just become a giant."

- The speakers discuss Denis Cyplenkov's famously thick, surreal hand structure and his impact on the sport. - The hosts address the viral internet rumors regarding Cyplenkov's alleged use of extreme growth hormone doses (ranging from 10 to 100 units daily).

[01:54:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6854s) The Freakish Strength of Smay

The speakers pull up photos of a strength athlete named Smay, marveling at his physical evolution. One speaker points out that while Smay looked like a "normal athlete" in his youth, his current form defies reality. Reviewing a photo of him at age 17, they agree he was already remarkably jacked for a teenager, but his current physique looks like "the Incredible Hulk" or a superhero rather than a real human being. His massive forearms and biceps make him look like a "complete freak of nature or science."

They discuss his specialized arm wrestling training, noting that his pronation lifts—which involve turning the wrist while lifting insane amounts of weight—are already at a world-class level. When trying to look up his Instagram to see these lifts, they discover his original page was taken down. They joke and speculate about why a platform would ban him, with one speaker humorously suggesting it is "cuz he's inspiring people to turn into monsters." Despite the missing official page, they find fan accounts showcasing his explosive jumps and specialized grip training.

- Smay weighs approximately 340 to 350 pounds and possesses "preposterous strength." - The speakers reference UFC pioneer Mark Coleman’s famous philosophy that "strength is a skill," highlighting how devastating Smay could be if he pairs his raw power with an understanding of leverage positions and martial arts.

[01:57:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7058s) Leonitis Arona's Upset Against Brian Shaw

The conversation shifts to a proposed matchup between Smay and a German arm wrestler named Leonitis Arona. The speakers crack up over Leonitis's formidable, historical-sounding name before revealing a shocking recent result: Leonitis defeated the legendary Strongman champion Brian Shaw in an arm wrestling match in Germany just six weeks prior. For one speaker, the idea of anyone besting the massive Brian Shaw in a physical contest "seems ridiculous" and hardly makes sense.

They pull up an image of the match, reacting with pure awe at the massive size difference between the two men. This serves as a prime example of how elite technique can overcome a massive weight deficit. While Brian Shaw has only been arm wrestling for less than two years and likely possesses a higher ultimate potential due to his frame, Leonitis has been in the sport much longer and used his deep technical background to secure the win.

- Leonitis Arona weighs around 285 pounds when he is in good shape and operates as a hybrid bodybuilder and arm wrestler. - Brian Shaw is roughly 100 pounds heavier than Leonitis and is renowned for having a uniquely powerful "staring grip." - One speaker reveals that he himself is currently ranked number two in the world in the open division, despite the fact that "everybody in the top 50 is stronger" than him, proving the extreme high-degree of skill required in the sport.

[01:59:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7185s) The Mechanics of Power and "Miniature Martial Arts"

The speakers analyze why arm wrestling functions like a "miniature martial art." They compare it to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, bringing up legendary grappler Marcelo Garcia, who is not a physically imposing man but possesses "the craziest squeeze." They argue that power isn't just about genetic brute force; it is about the endless repetition of a movement until it creates a "perfect chain of energy from the floor to the strike." Arm wrestling is a fluid, high-speed chess match of adjustments, adaptation, and decision-making where competitors must constantly figure out when to counter, when to push, and when to "hit the gas."

The discussion then turns to Tom Havlin, an enigmatic strength icon from Australia who trains in his backyard wearing a shirt, jeans, and work boots. Havlin is a legendary figure in the underground strength community whom elite arm wrestlers are desperate to pull into the sport. The speakers chuckle over his bizarre social media presence, where almost all of his images only show his back. One speaker shares a personal theory that Havlin might be a special forces guy or part of a discreet organization, though others have denied it.

- Tom Havlin stands at 6'8", weighs almost 400 pounds, and is famously "shredded" and athletic. - The speakers compare Havlin's baseline strength to giants like Brian Shaw and Smay, but note he looks uniquely mobile and athletic. - Australian arm wrestling president Phil Rasmussen is good friends with Havlin and has been trying to introduce him to the table.

[02:03:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7436s) The Elite Benchers and the Definition of Combat Sports

The speaker contrasts Tom Havlin’s reluctance to compete with Eric Spoto, a legendary powerlifter from Las Vegas. Spoto famously refused to show up to an official powerlifting meet until he knew he could definitively break the world record. He spent years hitting world-record numbers secretly in his basement, ignoring everyone telling him to make it legit, until he finally stepped out and "beat the world."

This phenomenon triggers a philosophical debate over whether arm wrestling should be classified as a "combat sport." While one speaker is skeptical because it isn't directly applicable to a real street fight, the other passionately defends the label. He argues that real fighting has levels, pointing out that humans invented guns and drones to the point where physical bodies are practically irrelevant in actual warfare. Therefore, any sport featuring a direct, unstructured, metaphorical fight between two human beings adjusting and adapting to one another qualifies as combat.

- Eric Spoto is a former number one in the world raw bench press record holder and is also described as a phenomenally strong arm wrestler who rarely competes. - The speaker argues that an arm wrestler with four or five years of practice will easily dominate any untrained person, drawing a direct parallel to how a mid-level Jiu-Jitsu practitioner controls an untrained giant.

[02:08:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7716s) The Military Roots and Operational Secrecy

The conversation shifts from the physical and psychological flow of arm wrestling to Devon's extensive military background. When asked about the Canadian version of the military branch he served in, Devon reveals he was a member of Joint Task Force 2 (JTF2), an elite special operations unit, where he spent 16 out of his 20 total years of service. He admits he would still be there today if things hadn't gotten so complicated, forcing him to leave. The complication largely stemmed from the rapid growth and public visibility of his arm wrestling career.

By 2014, Devon's arm wrestling matches were being broadcast on ESPN. Up until that point, he had maintained strict operational security, letting the public believe he was just a simple farmer. However, as an active JTF2 operator, his growing fame created a severe conflict with the anonymity required by his unit. "Part of being an operator is you know you have to you have to be anonymous," Devon explains, noting that you cannot have people recognizing you or taking photos on airplanes. Faced with an ultimatum from his command to choose between his military career and the sport he had loved since childhood, Devon accepted an offer for a one-year leave of absence without pay.

This transition year was incredibly lean and filled with doubt for Devon and his wife. To get by, they were gathering apples and eating sardines, even sending their children to school with dried apples, wondering if they were completely crazy for trying to make it purely on arm wrestling.

* Devon spent 16 out of 20 military years with JTF2. * He successfully hid his active-duty status by pretending to be a farmer until 2014. * His matches on ESPN forced a choice due to strict military operational security (OPSEC) rules.

[02:10:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7851s) The Graying of War and a Stand for Sport

Devon reflects on the psychological toll of completing seven military tours, noting that after a while, "things start to gray out a little bit." He emphasizes that a person's life will fall apart without a strong, clear mission. Early in a military career, intense patriotism and a desire to help one's country keep a soldier undeterred. However, playing in that realm for too long can lead to confusion and questioning whether the mission is truly benefiting mankind. Devon notes that while no one stays in the special forces for the money, the moral ambiguity of prolonged warfare starts to feel like a "level of merc" where the right path is no longer clear.

This internal questioning, combined with the military command shutting down everyone's extracurricular activities due to OPSEC issues in other units, pushed Devon to take a stand. He was the reigning open world champion at the time, and being told he could no longer arm wrestle was a breaking point. Taking the final offer of a year's unpaid leave meant arm wrestling was no longer just a hobby; it became a high-stakes gamble where losing meant failing to provide for his family or losing his house.

* Devon completed 7 military tours during his service. * In the Canadian Forces at that time, 20 years of continuous service were required to secure a base pension. * At age 39, he risked his financial stability to pursue sport over war.

[02:14:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8049s) The $20,000 Gamble and the Final Year

The stress of the unpaid leave culminated at the World Armwrestling League (WAL) Finals, where Devon competed in the 225-pound division. First place offered a $20,000 prize for both right and left hands. While he had a great sponsor who promised to match and double his winnings, the terms were brutal: if he lost, he would take home absolutely nothing.

While pacing and breathing heavily in the backstage warm-up area before facing his opponent, Ron Bath, Devon was approached by his longtime mentor and "older brother" figure, Mike Gould. Gould grounded him by reminding him of his roots, saying, "You used to run to practice when you were 18. You're just here cuz you love it. Don't worry about it. Just go and have fun." This advice shifted Devon's mindset, allowing him to compete freely and ultimately win.

Upon returning from his leave, the military pushed Devon into a recruiting role rather than returning him to his old operational job. Because he was in his 19th year of service, he spent his final year traveling across Canada telling people how great the JTF was to secure his 20-year pension baseline. He has now been a full-time professional arm wrestler for the last 10 years.

* **Tournament Division:** 225 lbs at the WAL Finals. * **Prize Money:** $20,000 for first place, with a sponsor matching/doubling any winnings. * **Final Opponent:** Ron Bath. * **Career Status:** Full-time professional arm wrestler for 10 years since retiring at age 40.

[02:16:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8181s) Transition to Civilian Life and Lessons from Combat

Reflecting on his massive career shift at age 39, Devon admits he initially felt incredibly selfish and irresponsible for chasing his passion at the potential expense of his children's university educations. Despite those heavy doubts, the gamble paid off, granting him what he describes as a "second life." Compared to the hyper-complex, stressful balancing act of special forces deployments—which he still wonders how his marriage survived—his civilian life is beautiful and simple. He is now home every day unless traveling for a tournament.

Devon firmly believes that the ultimate stakes of soldiering offer unparalleled life lessons that he is still digesting and integrating today. He places mothers and military fighters at the highest order of human callings. While he rarely speaks about his specific tours or uses them for self-promotion, he fondly recalls his time in Kandahar, Afghanistan, conducting high-intensity counterterrorism night hits alongside American and indigenous forces.

A humorous contrast of his dual life was hearing internet rumors that "Devon's scared to come to this tournament," while he was actively deployed in a war zone. He laughs remembering thinking, "I am in a goddamn war right now... you have to no idea how scared I am right now, what I'm doing."

* Devon views "being a mother" and "being a fighter" as two of the highest callings in society. * His most memorable military work involved night-time counterterrorism operations in Kandahar, Afghanistan.

[02:20:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8441s) Creating the Combat Persona and Overcoming Fear

Devon opens up about how combat shaped his psychology through intense fear and the humbling realization of "not being enough." He explains that while some rare soldiers genuinely do not get scared and lusted for the next mission, he was always "completely scared shitless" but went anyway. To survive and perform, he learned the art of psychological separation, discovering how to consciously transform his character by flipping a mental switch.

Returning from his first tour with PTSD—waking up with a racing heart—Devon realized that an emotional injury can either kill you or force you to develop resilience. He built a distinct persona for the field: a character that loved the violence, lusted for the aggression, and looked forward to the danger.

To build this persona, Devon's first step was to completely desensitize himself to his worst fears. For example, to overcome his intense fear of military static-line jumps, he watched parachute failure videos over and over until he became completely numb to the concept. He applied this exact same logic to war, mentally accepting the absolute worst-case scenario—that he was going to die—so that he could free his mind to focus purely on optimal performance. He concludes that humans are not fixed, singular entities; rather, a person has the power to deliberately build and roll out whatever psychology is required to perform best in a given circumstance.

[02:25:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8707s) Theory Versus Application in High-Stakes Environments

The conversation explores the psychological demands of high-stakes situations, contrasting academic theory with raw, real-world application. Devin describes how he integrated a specific mindset into his arm wrestling, prompting Joe to doubt whether a standard psychologist would ever advise or fully comprehend such an experience. Joe argues that a massive gap exists between textbook learning and the reality of a life-or-death scenario where "you might lose your life and you have to take a life." He expresses skepticism toward sports or fight psychologists who attempt to prepare individuals for combat without personal experience, dismissing their advice as mere "theory."

Devin agrees that navigating the extremes of human experience requires keeping your brain together during what Joe calls "the craziest thing a human being can do"—parachuting down and gunning people down. However, Devin notes that his perspective on this has evolved over time. Rather than focusing purely on the madness of combat, he now views these extremes through the lens of "excellence and mastery," which he believes is the true purpose of life. Whether someone is a soldier, a businessman, an artist, or a farmer, Devin emphasizes that "there's levels" to dedication. He describes a standard farmer versus a "completely psychotic farmer" who rises at the crack of dawn to achieve total mastery, placing himself on that same obsessive level. He jokes that he has become the "Bonnie Blue of arm wrestling," inviting all challengers by saying, "I get to first base with everybody."

---

[02:27:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8848s) The Eight-Foot Warlord of Kandahar

Joe shifts the conversation to the legendary "Kandahar giant," a famous piece of military folklore. Devin admits he is familiar with the story from YouTube and word-of-mouth, and validates it by sharing his own firsthand sighting of an exceptionally massive individual in Afghanistan. While participating in a two-week mobility exercise—an operation Devin despised because it essentially involved driving trucks around looking for a fight—his unit rolled into a large valley surrounded by mountains north of the Panjwayi. Acting as a machine gunner with clear visibility through his optics, Devin watched from about 200 meters away as his officer and a few soldiers went forward to meet a local warlord. He explains that in this region, political systems are replaced by raw dominance, meaning "the baddest dude in the region becomes in charge."

Through his optics, Devin observed a warlord of staggering proportions who appeared to be "twice as big" as a normal man, estimating his height at over eight feet. He recalls that their military officer only reached the bottom of the giant's chest. Surrounded by normal-sized lackeys, this massive Afghan man featured a great big beard and an incredibly broad frame, measuring roughly twice as wide across the shoulders as a standard human. Acknowledging how crazy it sounds, Devin emphasizes that he saw the man clearly from a distance, remarking on how wild and shocking the sight was, while also noting the brutal logic of their leadership hierarchy where the most massive individual commands authority.

- The meeting took place roughly 500 meters outside a local village. - The military vehicles were positioned about 200 meters back from the meeting point. - Devin describes the warlord as being "8 foot something" and "probably twice as broad" as a normal man.

---

[02:30:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9011s) Anomalies in the Wild and the Kandahar Legend

The discussion expands into a broader debate about genetic anomalies and hidden populations. Devin claims he has personally seen people over eight feet tall on more than one occasion, pivoting to a story from northern Canada. While attending an arm wrestling tournament in the Cree village of Attawapiskat, Devin was walking up the stairs of a hockey arena when he encountered a colossal man. Even at his own height of 6'5", Devin realized he only reached the stranger's nipple. The man possessed misshapen facial features and massive, elongated hands "like out of the Goonies." When Devin asked how big he was, the man simply laughed and claimed his father was 8'11". Devin insists that massive people live hidden away in the woods, completely unknown to the Guinness World Records.

Joe pulls up records of exceptionally large individuals, noting a specific entry for someone who was 8 foot 2.5 inches tall and weighed 367 pounds at age 33. Devin notes that the Cree are naturally very large people, though modern diets have impacted their growth patterns. Returning to the Kandahar giant myth, Joe reiterates the internet lore of American soldiers encountering a 12-foot-tall giant in the mountains who allegedly possessed six fingers and six toes. Devin admits he believes these extraordinary accounts, musing that such beings could be the result of rare recessive genetics or ancient "Nephilim." He describes Afghanistan as a beautiful, fertile country with a perfect climate, concluding that if a 12-foot giant could live anywhere on earth, a remote Afghan valley fed by mountain rivers would be the ideal choice.

- Joe references an individual who was 8' 2.5" and 367 lbs at age 33. - Devin mentions an individual named Edward Beaupré regarding regional giant genetics. - The legendary Kandahar giant is rumored to be 12 feet tall with six fingers and six toes. - Devin notes he asked around during his deployment but never met anyone who participated in the specific operation targeting the 12-foot giant.

---

[02:36:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9372s) The Exorcism in Erbil

Devin transitions from cryptids to a highly personal account of the supernatural, detailing what he calls a case of genuine "demonic possession" involving a close military colleague. The incident occurred during a tour in Erbil, Iraq—an ancient part of the world where Devin notes "history is long." The soldier involved was Devin's former stall partner, whom he describes as a super smart, excellent soldier. According to Devin, the man became possessed by an entity, began freezing and locking up physically, and started speaking in tongues. Terrifyingly, the man suddenly possessed absolute knowledge of everyone around him, speaking multiple languages he didn't know and exposing people's deepest, hidden sins dating back to their childhoods.

The military medical system was unable to handle the situation, leading to the involvement of the unit's padre. The priest performed a full exorcism, after which the soldier was sent back to Canada. The incident permanently ended the man's military career, forcing a medical retirement. Devin shares that the soldier remains under the supervision of the church to this day, checking in on a weekly basis. In a bizarre twist, the priest who performed the ritual claimed he recognized the specific demon, stating he had already cast the same entity out of three or four different soldiers on previous occasions.

Joe questions whether the event could be attributed to a severe psychological break, such as a schizophrenic episode, but Devin argues that medical diagnoses fail to explain the sudden linguistic capabilities. He confirms that his friend remembers the entire ordeal, describing the sensation as being fully aware but trapped "like a visitor" who was just along for the ride. Though Devin was not on that specific tour himself, he vouches completely for the story due to his tight-knit bond with the eyewitnesses and the victim, even offering to connect Joe with them. Joe declines, admitting, "I'm nervous. I don't think I would." Joe reflects that if a demon were to manifest anywhere, a war zone in an ancient land would be the ultimate stage.

- The possession incident took place in Erbil, Iraq. - The affected soldier was possessed for approximately a week to 10 days. - The military padre claimed to have exorcised this specific demon 3 or 4 times prior from different individuals. - The retired soldier is required to check in with the church every week.

[02:40:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9643s) The Mystery of Martin and Basement Wrist Curls

The conversation turns to a mysterious and fascinating figure named Martin. The speaker expresses a sense of wonder mixed with resignation about certain unexplainable events or traits surrounding this individual, noting that they are misunderstood and that "something's going on." Rather than stressing over trying to decode every single mystery in life, the speaker adopts a humorous, carefree philosophy, joking that at this point in their life they realize they don't know everything and are content to just "do wrist curls in my basement for myself." The room breaks into laughter at the mental image, but the affection for Martin is palpable as the speaker declares their love for him and extends an open invitation: "Martin, if you're watching, come over. Let's party."

Joe and Jamie probe a bit deeper into Martin's willingness to share his experiences, asking if he actually talks about these mysterious events and whether he would be open to coming onto the show to tell his story. The speaker is completely confident that Martin would absolutely do it, prompting an amused but slightly anxious response from Jamie, who admits, "I'm nervous." The speaker reassures everyone that Martin is a "cool dude" and a "great soldier," reaffirming his deep respect and admiration for him.

---

[02:41:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9696s) Reflecting on a Wild Life and Closing the Loop

Joe shifts the tone to a reflective note, remarking to the guest that he has had a "pretty wild life." The guest humbly accepts the compliment, describing it instead as having been a "ton of fun" and expressing genuine happiness to be sitting there sharing it. Joe extends his gratitude for the conversation, which prompts a deeply emotional acknowledgment from the guest. He reveals that being on the show feels like "closing the loop for something with my brother," bringing a poignant sense of resolution to the entire experience.

Joe then explains the touching backstory to the audience, revealing that he actually knew the guest's brother online before ever meeting the guest. He highlights a specific candle placed in the studio, sharing that it was personally crafted by the brother. Though the brother is no longer with us, Joe promises that "the candle will remain" right there in the studio as a lasting tribute.

* The guest extends a final, open invitation for Joe to try his hand at arm wrestling to get his grip strength working. * Joe playfully declines the physical challenge, saying, "No, no, I'm good. But thank you. I appreciate it." * Joe wishes the guest the best of luck in his upcoming match against a "giant dude" that is scheduled 16 months away. * The segment wraps up with mutual thanks, a promise to potentially do a follow-up interview before the big match, and a final sign-off to the audience.

## Notable quotes > [00:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=53s) weaponized arthritis — Devon Larratt

> [17:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1073s) the high rep training heals me... it's a form of healing almost — Devon Larratt

> [21:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1271s) Never underestimate the power of a grandmother — Devon Larratt

> [01:08:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4084s) the last of the small super heavyweights — Devon Larratt

> [02:08:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7716s) Part of being an operator is you know you have to you have to be anonymous, — Devon Larratt

> [02:10:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7851s) things start to gray out a little bit. — Devon Larratt

> [02:20:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8441s) completely scared shitless — Devon Larratt

> [02:25:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8707s) the craziest thing a human being can do — Joe Rogan

> [02:27:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8848s) the baddest dude in the region becomes in charge. — Devon Larratt

> [02:41:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9696s) pretty wild life. — Joe Rogan

> [02:41:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9696s) closing the loop for something with my brother, — Devon Larratt

## Mentioned Joe Rogan, Devon Larratt, John Brzenk, Hafþór "Thor" Björnsson, Crazy George, Dr. Pollock, Ottawa Hospital, Jujimufu, John Call, David Goggins, Jamie, Sylvester Stallone, Over the Top, Leanne Drain, Johnny Roberts, Vitalia Leton, Leavonne, Pork Chop, East versus West league, Troy Eaton, Ryan Rosner, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, CRISPR, Brian Shaw, Eddie Hall, Louis Simmons, Vitor Belfort, Enhanced Games, Levan Sagashvili, Levan Saginashvili, Denis Cyplenkov, Slankoff, Johnny Walker, Yoshi Kanai, Mike Gould Classic, PAL, WAL, ESPN, TikTok, YouTube, East vs. West, UFC, World Armwrestling Federation, WAF, Mack, Jod, Oleg Zhokh, Matthias Schlitte, Unified Forearm Championship, Eddie Bravo, Magnus Midtbø, Yves Gravelle, Ottawa Open, Thomas Inch, Adam Ondra, Derrick Lewis, Vitali Laletin, Captains of Crush, Michael Eckert, Smay, Mark Coleman, Leonitis Arona, Marcelo Garcia, Tom Havlin, Phil Rasmussen, Eric Spoto, Joint Task Force 2, JTF2, World Armwrestling League, WAL Finals, Ron Bath, Mike Gould, Kandahar, Edward Beaupré, Nephilim, Erbil, Martin

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0)

中文简报

Devon Larratt放弃常规举铁专注备战与Levan Sagashvili的二番战这位腕力老将正牺牲全身综合运动能力，在为期16个月的备战周期中完全专注于针对这位世界冠军的特异性右手台面训练。在这期具有里程碑意义的节目中，Devon Larratt 讲述了他从加拿大第二联合特遣部队（JTF2）顶尖特战队员转型为全职职业腕力选手的历程。他剖析了在高水平竞技中立足所必需的高深技术、独特的解剖学适应以及诸如高强度“南瓜训练”等极致专项化手段。对话深入探讨了传奇选手的历史、顶尖基因以及这项运动在全球的发展演化，并展现了 Larratt 为即将与未尝败绩的巨汉 Levan Sagashvili 进行的二番战所做的紧张备战。除体育之外，Larratt 还分享了服役期间狂野的亲身经历，包括与当地巨人的离奇遭遇，以及一起据称涉及恶灵附体的令人不寒而栗的事件。 Devon Larratt 创造历史，成为首位做客《Joe Rogan Experience》的职业腕力选手，探讨了该运动带来的身体损伤，包括他本人的“武器化关节炎”和肘部伸展受限问题。 (0:01) Larratt 阐释了他大容量、低重量的恢复性训练理念，即利用多次数充血流经结缔组织作为一种治疗性康复手段，而非在健身房进行大重量举铁。 (17:53) 与身体接触对抗运动不同，腕力运动具有极长的运动寿命，手部与肌腱的致密组织往往需要数十年才能完全成熟，使顶尖公开组世界冠军即使年过六旬仍能保持极高的竞争力。 (21:11) Larratt 解释了他高度特异化的“南瓜训练”策略，该策略将他有限训练精力的85%至90%完全投入到其主力右手，以打造单点致命的“破冰船”武器。 (83:33) 在疫情后 TikTok 和 YouTube 数字化热潮的加速下，腕力运动在结构和商业化层面发生演变，转型为一项可行的职业，现代顶尖选手通过 East vs. West 等赛事的推广已能斩获六位数收入。 (72:48)

Reading summary

Veteran competitor Devon Larratt argues that elite arm wrestling is an intricate, leverage-driven martial art where long-term success depends on dense connective tissue conditioning, technical precision, and hyper-specialized training rather than conventional gym strength. Drawing on his military service and decades at the top of the sport, Larratt explains how structural adaptations and tactical resource allocation allow athletes to overcome substantial size and genetic deficits. Hyper-Specialization and Connective Tissue Adaptation (17:53) Larratt emphasizes that arm wrestling hinges on dense connective tissues that take decades to mature, turning aging into a distinct advantage for seasoned competitors. Because the extreme joint torque causes severe physical wear—including restricted elbow extension, osteophytes, and bone chips requiring multiple surgeries—he abandoned conventional heavy weightlifting. Instead, he relies on high-rep, table-specific endurance work to stimulate circulation and fascial recovery, asserting that astronomical lifting volume accumulated with light weights produces superior structural adaptations. To manage finite bodily resources at age 51, Larratt adopted "pumpkin training," a radical unilateral protocol modeled on pruning giant competition pumpkins. By doing hours of targeted daily work solely with his right hand and leaving his left arm completely untrained, his right forearm has grown to twice the size of his left. While acknowledging criticism from younger competitors, Larratt argues that such extreme energy allocation is mandatory to remain world-class against younger and heavier opponents. Positional Leverage and Hand Control Dynamics (11:17) While raw grip is critical, Larratt clarifies that true technical mastery lies in forcing the opponent to hold on, manipulating hand angles and pronation to attack their structural weaknesses. Through opening moves like "rising"—an upward, spinning motion—a competitor establishes a higher grip that diverts force directly into the adversary's fingertips rather than permitting an efficient palm-to-palm contest. Using unstable table attachments like the "multi-spinner" cable handle, Larratt trains the micro-stabilizers required to act like an immovable wall rather than a climber trying to grasp a surface. Larratt categorizes arm wrestling as a fluid, high-speed martial art comparable to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, where tactical adjustments override brute power. He points to historical precedents, such as 210-pound technician John Brzenk dominating heavier opponents for 25 years without conventional gym work, and recent upsets like 285-pound Leonitis Arona outmaneuvering 400-pound strongman Brian Shaw, to demonstrate that leverage and kinetic chains dictate match outcomes. Genetic Anomalies and Open Division Benchmarks (33:32) Despite holding titles in the 105-kilogram and 115-kilogram divisions, Larratt remains fixated on the absolute open division, benchmarked by Georgia's 420-pound super heavyweight Levan Saginashvili. Acknowledging that he cannot replicate Saginashvili's massive lifting numbers—and noting an earlier match where Levan tore Larratt's bicep—Larratt focuses on micro-advantages, wrist flexion, and tight angles. He views strength sports through the lens of genetic outliers, citing rare growth hormone mutations seen in athletes like Brian Shaw, myostatin deficiencies observed in Belgian Blue cattle, and unilateral arterial flow anomalies in arm wrestlers like Oleg Zhokh. Larratt and Rogan discuss the future of athletic longevity, highlighting how advanced recovery protocols and unconstrained organizations like East vs. West mirror Formula 1 innovation. Larratt also reflects on anecdotal sightings of colossal individuals observed during his deployments in Afghanistan and visits to northern Cree communities, expressing belief in uncataloged recessive genetic anomalies. Transition From Special Forces to Professional Sport (130:51) Larratt's competitive philosophy is deeply informed by his 20-year military career, which included seven operational tours as a Canadian special operations soldier conducting counterterrorism missions in Kandahar. Experiencing the psychological fatigue and moral ambiguity of prolonged warfare, alongside military restrictions on outside sports, he reached a turning point at age 39. He took a one-year unpaid leave to gamble entirely on arm wrestling at the World Armwrestling League (WAL) Finals, where winning the $20,000 purse was essential to maintain financial solvency. Following that tournament victory, Larratt completed his military tenure in a recruiting role to secure his pension before transitioning into a full-time athlete. This shift coincided with the broader financial maturation of arm wrestling, which moved from local $500 tournaments to premier digital promotions like East vs. West, where top international athletes regularly earn six-figure incomes. While Larratt credits hyper-specialized unilateral conditioning for extending his career into his fifties, the physical damage sustained against open-weight champions like Saginashvili underscores the limits of technique against overwhelming mass. His extreme regimen remains an ongoing biological test of whether targeted connective tissue adaptations can continue to bridge the gap against the world's heaviest strength athletes.

精炼阅读摘要

职业腕力名将 Devon Larratt 在与 Joe Rogan 的对话中阐明，现代职业扳手腕并非单纯的绝对力量宣泄，而是一门基于杠杆力矩、神经耐受与极端专项化的“微型格斗”。他认为在顶尖竞技层面，老龄选手必须通过对机体有限能量的严苛重组与针对薄弱杠杆的高精度控制，方能对抗体量与骨骼远超常人的基因异类。极端专项化与有限能量假说 (85:17) Larratt 详述了其高度特化的日常训练机制。由于常年承受极端关节压力，他的双臂肘关节骨刺丛生且无法完全伸直，但他将这种关节锁定和组织形变视为竞技生涯的必要代价。为了在51岁仍保持最高水准，他彻底放弃了传统力量举等重负荷深蹲或硬拉，将有限的体能全部转移至高容量、轻负荷的单关节桌上练习。他提出人体能量与恢复资源是严格有限的，对称训练会摊薄修复上限，因此他践行所谓的“南瓜训练”（Pumpkin Training）——正如农夫为了培育数百磅的冠军南瓜而掐断藤蔓上其余花朵，他完全停止左臂的专门力量训练，将所有恢复资源倾注于右侧，致使其右前臂维度达到左前臂的两倍。在与极限健身者 Juji Mufu 交流后，Larratt 进一步确立了“实战模拟压倒一切”的原则，淘汰重型器械并转向双人合力的桌上抗阻训练。针对力量举圈对其单组高达百次练习的质疑，Larratt 强调结缔组织与肌腱需要数十年低强度血液循环的浸润滋养；全天累积的庞大微负荷吨位不仅不会减弱战力，反而是滋养筋膜、修复深层劳损并构筑致密被动张力的核心疗法。杠杆控制与以弱胜强的微观力学 (11:17) 针对外界对握力器峰值分数的迷信，Larratt 阐明纯粹的抓握挤压力在实战中仅属于辅助与防守范畴，真正的胜负核心在于剥夺对手的发力结构，即“迫使对手反过来抓紧自己”。他以经典技术“顶峰提升”（Rising）为例，选手通过向上旋转滑动的动作抢夺高位控制权，将整场对抗的扭矩集中施加在对手防御力最脆弱的指尖而非对等的掌心，以非对称力矩瓦解对手的庞大肌群。他将扳手腕定义为一种微型格斗艺术，其技术逻辑如同巴西柔术，胜负取决于由足底直至腕关节的动力链整合以及毫秒级的阻抗调整。这种机理阐明了跨界力量在台上的反常表现。体重仅150磅的攀岩者 Yves Gravelle 凭借微小岩点悬吊训练出的肌腱张力，仅接触该项运动六周便横扫地区公开赛；而285磅的德国选手 Leonitis Arona 亦能击溃体重大其约100磅的前大力士世界冠军 Brian Shaw。Larratt 解释称，人类生理构造在静态“阻止外力发生”（抗阻封闭）上的潜能远胜于主动发力；攀岩者的握力长于“抓附墙体”，而扳手腕的核心则是将自身骨架化为“一堵不可撼动的墙”，通过迫使对手的主动发力结构被强行扯开来引发致残级的局部力竭。商业生态演进与追逐绝对霸主莱万 (75:23) Larratt 梳理了扳手腕运动从地下走向职业化的轨迹。这项运动早期依赖非营利性俱乐部，高规格赛事头奖一度仅数百美元；随着格鲁吉亚等国政府自2000年左右将其确立为官方认证体育项目，加上疫情期间依托短视频平台爆发式的算法传播，全球赛事格局被彻底重塑。新生的“East vs. West”联赛成为该领域的“UFC”，促使顶尖职业选手突破六位数年收入。值得注意的是，该商业联赛采取无兴奋剂检测制度，被 Larratt 形容为类似一级方程式赛车（F1）的极致人体工程学实验，与推行规范药检、依托政府层级晋级的世界腕力联合会（WAF）形成双轨并行。在这套竞技金字塔顶端，重达420磅的格鲁吉亚霸主莱万·萨吉纳什维利（Levan Saginashvili）构成了不可逾越的肉体天花板。莱万依仗包括180公斤二头弯举在内的重型力量构建起绝对统治，在过往交锋中不仅曾当场撕裂 Larratt 的肱二头肌，更在2024年的战局中让其承受长达数月的脊柱创伤。Larratt 坦言，尽管自己稳居轻重量级王座，但对无差别级冠军的渴望始终驱动着他闭门苦训。面对生理量级完全失衡的对手，正面硬碰毫无胜算，唯有通过强化前臂旋前肌、精细化抓握角度与锁定单根指骨等微观杠杆，才有机会如斗牛犬撕咬般创造胜机。特战心理洗礼与极致专注的重构 (130:51) Larratt 的竞技哲学与其近二十年的特种作战生涯深度交织。他曾作为加拿大特种部队士兵执行过7次海外部署任务（包括在阿富汗坎大哈的高烈度反恐作战）。他指出，长期暴露于极端暴力与道德模糊的作战边缘会使人陷入虚无，倘若失去清晰而坚定的使命感，心智便会逐步瓦解。在39岁服役满19年、距离获得全额终身退休金仅剩一年之际，因军方保密条令全面收紧外部活动，身为世界冠军的 Larratt 孤注一掷申请了一年无薪长假，在胜者独得20,000美元、败者一无所有的 WAL 决赛高压下击溃对手 Ron Bath，惊险完成向全职职业选手的转型。这段直面生死危机的经历彻底重塑了他对压力调控与“极致专精”（Mastery）的认知。他排斥脱离实战的学院派运动心理学，坚信应对高压的唯一途径是在真实甚至摧毁性的极端挑战中维持大脑运转。无论是战场突击还是在地下室日复一日承受单调枯燥的腕力负荷，真正的专精都需要一种近乎病态的决绝。正是这种心理机制，支撑他在饱受伤病困扰与解剖结构受损的晚期职业生涯中，将肉体苦痛转化为量化自身力学边界的宝贵信息。 Devon Larratt 展现了一个违背传统运动训练学常理的极限案例：以极端的单侧身体失衡适应衰老与机能耗竭，以微观杠杆压制绝对肌肉量。然而，这种以牺牲身体对称性、承受慢性关节畸形和退行性病变为代价的个人范式，究竟属于不可复制的高风险幸存者孤例，抑或是耐力与被动张力型力量竞技在特定生理限制下的终极演化路线，在主流运动科学领域依然悬而未决。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 该内容由 PowerfulJRE 频道于 2026 年 6 月 5 日发布在 YouTube 平台上。视频简介指出，本期嘉宾德文·拉拉特（Devon Larratt）是加拿大武装部队的退伍军人，也是一名职业腕力运动员，被广泛认为是该项运动历史上最伟大的选手之一。 ## TL;DR 在本次对谈中，顶级职业腕力选手 Devon Larratt 详细拆解了扳手腕的核心技术、极端的专项化训练哲学，以及他因长期承受巨大压力而导致的身体损耗。同时，他回顾了自己从 20 年精锐特种部队服役生涯到 39 岁孤注一掷转型为全职运动员的传奇人生。节目还探讨了基因突变、现代医疗技术对运动寿命的延长，并穿插了他在战区服役时遭遇阿富汗隐世巨人与战友被恶魔附身等一系列颠覆认知的狂野见闻。 ## Atmosphere & style 整个节目营造出一种硬核、热烈且带有神秘色彩的蓝领畅聊氛围。Devon 与主持人 Joe Rogan 互动频繁，Devon 既有着顶尖特种兵和世界冠军的极度自信与冷酷开关，又展现出极其谦逊、豁达且幽默的智者风范。随着话题从枯燥痛苦的肉体淬炼层层推进到战场生死的心理脱敏，再到最后带有超自然质感的荒野奇闻，节目的情感弧线从最初的竞技热血转变为后期的毛骨悚然，带给听众一种如同坐在深夜车库里聆听传奇老兵讲述狂野人生的沉浸感。 ## Key takeaways - [00:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=12s) Devon Larratt 成为 Joe Rogan 节目历史上邀请的第一位职业腕力运动员，他在圈内被广泛视为“历史最佳（GOAT）”的强有力竞争者。 - [00:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=54s) 由于多年手肘关节承受持续巨大压力导致骨赘增生，Devon 的双臂无法完全伸直，他将这种由于丧失活动范围反而能为比赛服务的慢性病症幽默地称为“武器化关节炎”。 - [18:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1117s) Devon 纠正了大众误区，指出腕力的核心技术精髓不在于纯粹的指力抓握，而在于通过“rising（起手/扬后手）”动作去消耗和攻击对方最脆弱的指尖系统，迫使对手陷入被动。 - [17:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1060s) Devon 颠覆了传统的大重量力量举理论，采用极端的“轻重量、高次数（每个动作100次）”的非桌上日训练模式，旨在促进结缔组织和韧带的血液循环以加速专项修复。 - [23:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1413s) 腕力运动具有低成本和极长寿性的特点，人类手部复杂的结缔组织需要漫长岁月生长，因此年龄在某种程度上是优势，公开组中甚至出现过年近70岁的世界冠军。 - [01:06:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3991s) 传奇选手 John Brzenk 作为专项化训练的代表人物，日常身为机械师且完全不依赖传统举铁，却凭借无双的技术统治世界腕力界长达25年。 - [01:12:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4339s) 疫情后崛起的 East vs. West 赛事已成为“腕力界的 UFC”，每7周举办一次且不设药物检测，推动了顶级职业选手的高额年薪化与极限军备竞赛。 - [01:23:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4993s) Devon 推崇极端的单侧能量资源分配理论，并开启只练右手、完全放弃左手的“南瓜训练法”，他认为在世界顶级对抗中，牺牲左手换取右手从99分到100分的飞跃是完全值得的交易。 - [01:45:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6302s) 攀岩运动员（如 Eve）凭借反人类的指尖与握力天赋，跨界进入腕力界展现出降维打击的潜力，但仍需在专项对抗中学会从“攀岩者”向不可动摇的“墙壁”角色转变。 - [02:04:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7496s) Devon 强调腕力是一门充斥着位置理解、即时决策与战术博弈的“100%格斗运动”，经过四五年专业训练的技术效率足以让小个子轻松碾压未训练过的纯力量巨汉。 - [02:09:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7763s) Devon 曾在加拿大精锐特种部队 JTF2 服役长达20年，2014年由于比赛登上 ESPN 频道面临身份曝光风险，最终在 39 岁时为了热爱的腕力运动不惜豪赌，接受一年无薪假并因病退伍。 - [02:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8286s) 战火的洗礼让 Devon 患上 PTSD，但他通过在心理上分离出另一个渴望暴力与攻击性的冷酷人格（建立心理“开关”），并在脑海中通过最坏结果（如降落伞故障视频）进行极端脱敏。 - [02:26:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8800s) Devon 分享了其在阿富汗坎大哈服役时通过瞄准镜目击“巨型军阀”以及在加拿大克里族村庄遭遇隐世巨汉的震撼经历，坚信世界上存在未被吉尼斯纪录记载的基因异数。 - [02:33:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9180s) Devon 讲述了其战友在伊拉克埃尔比勒执行任务时遭遇真实“恶魔附身”并由随军神父进行驱魔的惊悚事件，该事件导致该高素质士兵精神崩溃并最终因病退伍。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=12s) 世纪对谈：顶级腕力选手首次做客节目节目在一片轻松而热烈的气氛中开场。Devon Larratt 见到 Joe Rogan 时显得格外兴奋，直言 Rogan 是“地球的扩音器”，能来到这里深感荣幸。Rogan 幽默地回应称这个位置让他感觉“非常不舒服且怪异”。Devon 随后自豪地表示，Rogan 采访过世界上各行各业的人，而自己非常荣幸能成为节目历史上邀请的第一位职业腕力（扳手腕）运动员。当 Rogan 称赞 Devon 如果要选一个腕力选手那必须是“历史最佳（GOAT）”时，Devon 谦虚地表示这个称号在圈内其实“争议很大”，不过他很乐意接受这一赞誉。他承认自己确实在 GOAT 的讨论范围内，但同时提及像 John Brzenk 这样的传奇人物也是强有力的竞争者。当被问及对腕力运动的关注度时，Rogan 坦言自己其实关注得极少，但对 Devon 本人非常感兴趣。 --- ### [00:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=54s) 无法伸直的双臂与“武器化关节炎” Rogan 随即指出一个令他非常着迷且感到惊悚的细节：Devon 的手臂居然无法完全伸直。Devon 笑着承认了这一点，并打趣道当年在尝试与外号“魔山”的 Thor（Hafþór Björnsson）对抗时，无法伸直的手臂确实严重限制了他的攻击范围。Devon 回忆说，自己大概在 18 岁时开始接触俱乐部腕力训练，到了 20 岁左右，他遇到了当时一位非常年长且荣誉满身的冠军“疯狂乔治（Crazy George）”。疯狂乔治的双肘当时就无法伸直，年轻气盛的 Devon 觉得这酷毙了，甚至傻乎乎地渴望“自己的手肘有一天也能变成这样”。这种身体的变化在 Devon 快 30 岁时正式显现，关节活动范围开始逐渐缩小。他解释说，这主要是因为多年来手肘关节承受了常人难以想象的持续巨大压力，从而导致了骨赘（骨刺）的增生。为了保持职业生涯，Devon 迄今为止已经接受了三次手术，主要是由渥太华医院的 Dr. Pollock 医生主刀，切除了大量的碎骨和疤痕组织。 ``` 无法伸直的诱因 = 持续高压 -> 骨赘增生 -> 压迫神经/血管 (慢性病症) ``` > “我把这称作‘武器化关节炎’（Weaponized Arthritis）。因为在某些时候，你可以利用这种丧失的活动范围来为你服务。” —— Devon Larratt * **手术历史**：Devon 的右臂接受过两次手术，左臂接受过一次。首次手术是在 2013 年（距今约 13 年前）。 * **活动限制**：在现场向 Rogan 演示时，Devon 的右臂在极力伸展下依然呈现明显的弯曲弧度，左臂的伸展度比右臂稍好一点。 * **代价与心态**：Devon 坦言这是他对这项运动“全心投入”所必须支付的入场券。这种症状并非发生在每个选手身上，它与个人的发力风格、基因易感性以及在不该坚持时强行训练的“愚蠢行为”密切相关。 --- ### [04:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=288s) 痛苦的肌肉放松与大卫·哥金斯的膝盖 Rogan 提到他曾看过 Devon 和知名网红 JujiMufu（John Call）一起拍的视频。视频中，其他人试图用巨大的金属棒帮 Devon 碾压和放松手臂肌肉，Devon 当时痛苦得大声惨叫，场面十分骇人。Devon 坦言那种感觉确实糟糕透顶，但他现在已经完全接受了这一现实。面对 Rogan 是否尝试过通过吊单杠来拉伸手臂的询问，Devon 表示自己年轻时试过无数种方法，但由于关节周围形成了一层紧密的包裹鞘（由筋膜等结缔组织构成），整个结构已经极度浓缩以维持关节的稳定，因此很难再改变。两人的话题随即延伸到了人体结构极限的特例——“大卫·哥金斯（David Goggins）的膝盖”。Rogan 描述称，哥金斯的双膝早已严重到了“骨头磨骨头（Bone on bone）”的地步，医生甚至无法想象他如何能正常走路，更不用说跑几千公里了。根据医学上的**沃尔夫定律（Wolff's law）**，骨骼在长期受到物理压力时会自适应地变厚变密，哥金斯的膝盖骨因此长期相互撞击，导致骨头顶部像“蘑菇”一样向外异常增生，甚至让膝盖以奇怪的角度移动。为此，医生不得不像锯木头一样切掉他的一部分胫骨进行矫正拉平，再用螺丝固定。而哥金斯在术后踩了五个月的动感单车，便再次踏上了跑步之路。 --- ### [08:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=511s) 骨骼磨损的极限与疯狂的每日训练听完哥金斯的故事，Devon 赞叹之余透露自己也有着极其相似的经历：他的手肘关节也已经处于“骨头磨骨头”的状态长达二十年之久，体内的软骨早已磨损殆尽。大约 15 年前手术时，医生曾悲观地告诉他：“Devon，也许我们最多只能让你的职业生涯再延长一两年。”然而Devon却幽默地大笑说，就在六周前，51 岁的他刚刚完成了人生中最好的一场比赛，目前依然在组别中排名世界第一，并有机会再次冲击世界冠军头衔。 Rogan 感叹道，这种奇迹说明所谓的“不可能”往往只是普通人选择放弃的终点线。Devon 赞同并指出，痛苦其实是一种帮助你了解哪里需要提高的“信息和指南”。腕力运动对肘部的韧带和腱体结构要求极高，在巨大的压力和创伤下进行康复与发展是一件极其枯燥且耗时的事，需要忍受常人难以忍受的单调乏味。 * **握力卡点**：Rogan 抱怨自己的握力训练遇到了瓶颈，卡在 164 磅（约 74.4 kg）再也上不去了，而他的目标是 200 磅。由于平时频繁进行手臂力量训练、腕弯举、使用 Golden Grip 的前臂训练器以及粗把手绳索转腕，他的双手和前臂虽然变大变壮了，但因为缺乏休息，双手总是处于酸痛疲劳的状态。 * **训练频率**：当 Rogan 询问 Devon 一周练几次握力时，Devon 毫不犹豫地回答：“每天，整天（Every day. All day）。” --- ### [11:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=677s) 腕力的核心技术： rising 与控制 Devon 纠正了一个大众误区：虽然人们总把握力与扳手腕等同起来，握力也确实极其重要，但这项运动真正的技术精髓在于“**让对方不得不死死抓着你**”。握力在比赛中更多扮演的是防守和附加进攻的角色，而高阶选手的首要步骤是去消耗对方的握力。 --- > “在我的视角里，腕力运动的开局核心动作被称为‘rising’（起手/扬后手）。就像电影《超越巅峰》（Over the Top）里演的那样，这是争夺更好把位的关键。一旦你能迫使对手的指尖发力来抓紧你，他们的身体效能就会大幅下降。” —— Devon Larratt --- Devon 详细拆解了比赛中的技术对决： 1. **打破平衡**：当双方掌心相对、抓得很紧时，彼此的效率是最高的。技术 Supremacy（优势）的精髓在于打破这种对称，让压力交互变得对自己绝对有利。 2. **攻击指尖**：优秀的选手不会蠢到只想着去“把对方按倒”，而是通过一种向上旋转、滑动、滑脱的“rising”动作，将 match（比赛）的拉力重心引向自己。 3. **制造不公**：最终的目的是让对方所有的发力都不得不通过他们最脆弱的系统——也就是他们的“指尖”。如果能像锤击或卷曲一样把压力施加在对方的指尖上，就能在力量对抗中占尽便宜。对于日常的训练分配，Devon 透露在他通常进行的 21 组正式训练中，每天仅有一组是纯粹留给基础握力训练的，其余的时间则完全融入了他极其简单且专注的退役生活里。 --- ### [13:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=836s) Devon 的周训练结构与专业器械 Devon 自豪地表示，在倾注的时间和精力上，自己绝对是世界上最专注的腕力选手之一。他将生活围绕着每周的周期进行严密规划： * **高强度对抗（每周 2 次）**：这是他最硬核的训练日，Devon 会前往俱乐部与队友完全“拉满红线（redline）”，在最高强度下压榨自己的极限潜力。他的儿子如今也是一名职业腕力选手，父子俩经常在一起备战交流。 * **单调低强度充血（其余日子）**：除了这两天高强度对抗，剩下的日子里充斥着极端单调、近乎机械式的低强度 monotonous（单调）训练，因为已经退役，他除了时间一无所有，几乎全天醒着就在训练。 | 训练类型 | 频次/周期 | 核心目的 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **俱乐部实战对抗** | 每周 2 次 | 极限红线测试、最高强度模拟、技战术红线爆发 | | **单调辅助训练** | 每日/全天 | 极端 monotony（单调）的结构重塑、肌腱修复与充血 | Rogan 在屏幕上展示了 Devon 使用的一些专业训练器械。Devon 介绍说，画面中那台看起来有 40 年历史的、带有滑轮缆绳系统的专业腕力桌，其实是历史上最伟大的女子腕力选手 Leanne Drain（Johnny Roberts）传承给他的。桌上配备了一个用 PVC 管制作的粗把手（Fat grip），Devon 称之为“**Multi-spinner（多功能旋转器）**”。由于它采用的是单点悬挂连接，其不稳定性非常类似于健身房里的瑞士球（Swiss ball），能够极好地模拟并锤炼手腕在各种角度下的 fingertip（指尖）控制力与翻转手腕的终极力量。 ### [16:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=995s) 瑞士球、不稳定性与高次数高血流量训练在一场关于训练方法的讨论中，对话从一种被称为“瑞士球”（Swiss Ball）的健身器材展开。主讲人澄清了它与半圆平衡球（Bosu ball）的区别，指出瑞士球就是那种常见的大圆球（类似于瑜伽球）。在腕力对抗中，使用这种球进行训练会让手腕处于一种极度不稳定的状态。腕力运动有几种核心的基本动作，主要包括：开门顶峰（top rolling）、吸扣（hooking）以及下压（pressing）。主讲人分享了他自己的训练视频，画面中他在地下室里进行着高频的动作。他透露，这是他在大约六、七周前对阵俄罗斯冠军维塔利·拉莱汀（Vitaly Laletin）之前的最后一次减量训练（taper）。在日常的这种训练中，他通常会把每个动作重复做上100次，以此来极大地促进血液循环。 * **基本动作**：腕力的三大核心基础动作为开门顶峰、吸扣和下压。 * **减量训练数量**：在减量期，视频中的每个动作都会进行100次的高重复做，以动员大量的血流量。 --- ### [17:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1060s) 高次数低强度与高强度低次数的辩论面对“100次重复是否意味着只使用了极轻重量（例如最大重量的50%或大约20磅）”的疑问，主讲人给出了肯定的答复。他坦言自己是一个喜欢不断实验各种训练系统的“小白鼠”，而目前这套在非训练日（如周二、周三）通过轻重量高次数、让血液大量流经筋膜和腕力动作链的系统，是他认为最理想的模式。其核心目的就在于提高结缔组织的血液循环，因为他深信运动对于修复至关重要。当被问及为什么这种模式比低次数、高重量的大力量训练更有优势时，主讲人指出这是一个在体育界极具争议的话题。他的哲学建立在“能量有限”的原则上。他认为，如果一味盲目追求大重量，反而会透支身体，影响他在最核心的场地——腕力桌上的技术发挥。对他而言，这种高次数的轻重量训练不仅不会造成负担，反而像是一种奇妙的“治疗形式”（healing），能帮助他在专项训练后快速恢复。 * **训练重量**：使用的重量极轻，大约只有20磅左右。 * **训练日程**：周二和周三等非桌上对抗日，全天都在进行这种高血流量的循环训练。 * **训练哲学**：避免大重量 lifting 夺走专项训练所需的能量，将高次数训练视为一种让结缔组织和韧带愈合的手段。 --- ### [19:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1190s) 51岁传奇的运动生涯与奶奶启蒙的打斗人生主讲人承认，腕力作为一项不折不扣的力量运动，传统观念普遍认为高次数会把人练成“耐力型选手”从而削弱爆发力。但他用多年的实践证明，全天累积的轻重量总负荷是非常惊人的，这种长期的代谢适应对结缔组织极具好处。如今他已经51岁，身上伤病缠身，无法像年轻时那样盲目冲击大重量，必须通过这种精准且特异性的高次数训练来保持状态。回顾年轻时代，他坦言自己犯过无数错误，以前也是一味追求“能举多重就举多重”。他曾有着非常丰富的跨界背景，练过柔道、打过篮球、服过兵役，甚至参加过军事铁人三项（Military Iron Man）——这种项目不同于常规铁人三项，需要背负背包、搬运独木舟、划桨和负重奔跑，对大体型的人来说极具挑战。在尝试过无数运动后，腕力始终是他的毕生挚爱。主讲人动情地回忆道，这其实源于他的童年。他4岁时就开始和自己的奶奶在家里掰手腕。当时他是一个极其顽皮的孩子，他那严厉的德国母亲在家里立了许多规矩，而奶奶每次过来就会用掰手腕作为他做家务的奖励。他笑着说自己从来没有赢过奶奶，巧合的是，他奶奶的名字叫 Leavonne，而现任的超重量级世界冠军也叫 Leavonne，他幽默地调侃道：“这两个 Leavonne 我一个都赢不了。” * **选手年龄**：主讲人现年51岁。 * **军事铁人三项特点**：包含背负背包跑步、搬运独木舟（portaging a canoe）和划桨，胜出时间通常在5.5到6小时之间。 * **童年经历**：4岁起在奶奶 Leavonne 的引导下接触腕力，并将其作为完成家务的奖励机制。 --- ### [23:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1413s) 腕力运动的低成本、长寿性与蓝领家族般的纽带主讲人热爱腕力运动的另一个重要原因在于它是一场“低成本的战斗”。他骨子里热爱格斗与打仗，但腕力绝不会让人伤及头部或脊椎，即便很多人开玩笑说自己的手臂关节都伸不直了，它依然是一项可以延续终身的运动。在腕力界，公开组中甚至出现过年近70岁的世界冠军。主讲人解释说，人类的手部结构极其奇妙，它本身就是为了承受巨大的运动量而生的，里面充满了复杂的结缔组织和肌腱，这些结构的生长需要漫长的岁月。因此在腕力运动中，年龄某种 grass 程度上甚至是一种优势。除了生理层面，腕力俱乐部独特的“蓝领氛围”和家庭般的羁绊最让他沉迷。这里的会费微乎其微，大家往往就在彼此的桌子、车库或者房子里训练，敞开大门，没有资本的铜臭味。这种单纯的环境孕育了极其紧密的兄弟情谊。 * **选手寿命**：在腕力公开组中，曾有年龄接近70岁的选手夺得世界冠军。 * **黄金年龄**：通常而言，大部分腕力顶尖选手的巅峰期在30岁出头。 * **俱乐部文化**：具有典型的蓝领（blue-collar）风格，成员之间关系如同家人，多在彼此的车库中切磋。 --- ### [25:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1527s) “疯狂乔治”的传奇技术与外侧顶峰视频随后播放了传奇人物“疯狂乔治”（Crazy George）和“猪排”（Pork Chop）的对抗画面。猪排体重230磅，肌肉发达强壮，是参加 East versus West 最高水平联赛的职业选手；而疯狂乔治当时已年近七旬，体重仅有160磅左右，手臂高度挛缩。然而在视频中，疯狂乔治凭借着一手出神入化的“王者之势”（King's Move，又称外侧顶峰 outside top roll），硬生生将猪排的手腕带离了防线。主讲人对乔治表达了崇高的敬意，称他在职业生涯的前20年里虽然总是遭遇“双败淘汰”（two up, two down），但他最终摸索并完善了这种极少有人使用的独特打法——通过将身体重心下沉来抵消对方的力量。腕力运动的胜负往往发生在电光石火之间，但本质上是多维度力量的动态平衡。这其中包含：起弓力量（rising strength）、旋前力量（pronational strength）以及卷手力量（cupping strength）。 * **疯狂乔治（Crazy George）**：拍摄时年近70岁，体重160磅，是外侧顶峰（King's Move）流派的鼻祖式传奇人物。 * **猪排（Pork Chop）**：体重230磅，顶级腕力赛事 East versus West 的职业选手。 --- ### [27:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1670s) 恐怖的旋转肌群与基因科技的遐想主讲人向主持人展示了自己手臂上极其夸张、甚至有些畸形的旋前肌（pronator muscle）轮廓。当他将大拇指朝下、手腕向后压时，那块肌肉便怪异地高高隆起，让主持人大呼“这太疯狂了，普通人根本没有这块肌肉”。主讲人打趣道，他的梦想之一就是未来能看到国际健美总会（IFBB）的职业健美运动员在台上展示“旋前肌标志性姿势”。他指出，外侧顶峰打法高度依赖于这种武器化的旋前力量。手部的卷手（屈曲）与旋前是两个核心驱动力，两者相生相克，当一方进行旋前攻击时，就是在摧毁另一方的卷手防线。主讲人从20岁起就跟随教练特洛伊·伊顿（Troy Eaton）研究如何破解乔治的这种打法，整整钻研了30年。话题随后从主讲人异于常人的基因构造，延伸到了更广阔的遗传学领域。主持人提到他们在休息室聊到的一项最新突破：科学家正尝试利用 CRISPR 等基因编辑技术来“关闭”导致唐氏综合征的额外染色体。主讲人对此深表赞同，他甚至提出了一个激进的观点，认为每个人出生时都应该接受基因采样并与其健康卡绑定，作为未来精准医疗的重要参考。 * **手部双核心驱动**：卷手（flexion/cupping）与旋前（pronation），两者在对抗中相互博弈。 * **唐氏综合征数据**：在美国，大约每640个新生儿中就有一个患有唐氏综合征，这源于第21号染色体三体化所导致的数百个三联基因异常。哈佛医学院等机构的研究已在《美国国家科学院院刊》（PNAS）上发表了关于沉默该染色体活性的相关论文。 ### [33:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2012s) 精英运动员的基因突变与 Brian Shaw 的惊人天赋对话者坦言自己只有高中学历，但他多次前往奥斯汀与 Ryan 交流，并像海绵一样吸收对方的所有知识。他认为自己的基因天生更倾向于耐力。在谈到基因工程时，他提到伴随诸多有利的基因突变，如果能将人类所有优秀的基因组合在一起，结果将不可估量。目前他正协助 Ryan 进行一项寻找精英运动员体内有利基因突变的研究项目。他们重点扫描了大力士 Brian Shaw 的基因。主持人幽默地形容 Brian 就像“圣经里走出来的人物，如同现实版的的大卫与歌利亚”。数据表明，Brian 的基因罕见度高达每5亿人中才出一个。他不仅拥有极其恐怖的骨密度，更拥有独特的冠军心态。最让人震惊的是，Ryan 发现 Brian 拥有某种前所未见的、在分子结构上与常人完全不同的生长激素突变。正是这种特质，让他拥有接近7英尺（约213厘米）的身高、400磅（约181公斤）的体重，且运动状态永不停歇。 * **Brian Shaw 的基因罕见度**：每5亿人中仅有1人达到这种基因表现。 * **生理解剖特征**：具备极其罕见的恐怖骨密度，且拥有常人未见、分子结构不同的生长激素突变。 * **体型数据**：身高接近 7 英尺，体重达 400 磅。 --- ### [36:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2185s) 基因“终止密码子”的谜团与 Eddie Hall 的不可思议话题随后转向基因表达的微观机制。发言者解释说，某些基因突变（如某些治疗唐氏综合征的研究）或自然变异中存在“终止密码子”（Stop Code）。当信使 RNA（mRNA）与基因结合并开始翻译时，终止密码子会直接阻止该基因的表达。令人难以置信的是，世界上某些硬拉世界纪录保持者，从基因层面来看竟然天然携带着快肌纤维基因的“终止密码子”。主持人对此大惑不解，因为硬拉显然需要极强的快肌纤维爆发力。他们讨论这究竟是人类对快肌纤维的研究还不透彻，还是身体其他肌肉群进行了某种补偿。发言者直接点名了另一位大力士 Eddie Hall，并开玩笑说“Eddie 可以起诉我，但我爱你”，透露 Eddie 的基因中就带有快肌纤维的终止密码子。然而在现实中，Eddie 却移动极快、出拳极重，在打手靶时展现出令人惊叹的爆发力，这在基因学上完全说不通。 --- ### [38:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2292s) 肌肉生长抑制素与 Folstatin 基因疗法随后他们讨论了导致肌肉异常发达的“肌肉生长抑制素”（Myostatin）。这种蛋白质的作用是限制肌肉过度生长。如果缺乏肌肉生长抑制素或者其受到抑制，生物就会变得极度强壮。他们让后台播放了患有此基因突变的惠比特犬（Whippet）照片。普通的惠比特犬身形瘦长、类似灵缇犬，但基因突变的个体“看起来就像绿巨人”，宛如狗界的硬核健美运动员。类似的情况也出现在比利时蓝牛（Belgian Blue）和某些人类身上。基于此原理，市场上已经出现了通过增加卵泡抑素（Folstatin）来进行的基因疗法。在人体内，卵泡抑素就像是开启肌肉生长的“钥匙”，而肌肉生长抑制素则负责发出停止生长的信号。当缺乏生长抑制素时，身体只会接收到卵泡抑素的生长信号。这项疗法最初是为抗衰老和长寿而研发的，因为随着年龄增长，人体内的卵泡抑素会下降，导致老年人肌肉萎缩、身体“缩水”。现在，许多追求极致运动表现的运动员也开始通过这种疗法来提升实力。 --- ### [40:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2445s) 脊椎椎间盘再生技术与 Louis Simmons 的反向哈克机主持人聊到了现代医疗的另一项突破：针对椎间盘退行性变（Disc Degeneration）的新疗法。这种病症在巴西柔术（Jiu-Jitsu）运动员和重体力举重运动员中非常普遍，长期的挤压会导致脊柱大骨将椎间盘软垫压扁。现在的全新技术可以直接向椎间盘注射某种物质使其重新“充气”膨胀，从而免去了传统脊椎融合术或人工椎间盘手术带来的巨大副作用。主持人极力奉劝大家“能不做背部手术就千万别做”。主持人极力推荐了传奇力量举教练 Louis Simmons 的伟大发明——反向哈克机（Reverse Hyper）。主持人在录音室和家里各放了一台，对其赞不绝口。这台机器能在下放和上拉重量时拉伸并减压脊椎，同时强化核心肌肉，是治疗下背部问题的完美器械。他们畅想，随着这些医疗技术的进步，人类的运动寿命将被无限延长，“或许以后到了60岁你才能成为世界冠军”。 --- ### [42:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2552s) 药物对运动寿命的延长与“增强版奥运会”的思考在常规体育运动中，各种表现增强物质（PEDs，如合成类固醇、睾酮、多肽）和用于伤病恢复的干细胞正在大幅推迟运动员的退役年龄。在严禁使用这些物质的格斗运动中，一旦有人“钻空子”，就会产生恐怖的效果。主持人举了他最喜欢的例子：巅峰时期的 Vitor Belfort（被称为 "TRT Vitor"）。当时37岁的 Belfort 在接受了睾酮替代疗法（TRT）后，不仅拥有年轻人般的超级速度与力量，还兼具几十年的格斗智商与经验，成为了“史上最恐怖的家伙”。这种现象引发了对全面开放药物带来的“增强版奥运会”（Enhanced Games）的讨论。虽然最近的一届因各种原因（如游泳选手穿了违规泳衣）并未如预期般打破大量世界纪录，但发言者指出，力量、速度和耐力的积累需要数年甚至数十年的高强度训练，短短几个月的药物滥用无法催生出“超级飞人”。他以著名力量网红 Juju Mufu 为例，此人训练多年，体型硕大且极度强壮，如果去药检“绝对会把尿检杯融化”。 --- ### [45:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2734s) Juju Mufu 的独特天赋与对腕力训练的颠覆性启发屏幕上播放了 Juju Mufu 的视频，他在做一字马劈叉的同时还能将重物举过头顶。这种兼具恐怖肌肉量与极高柔韧性的怪异体质让主持人惊叹。Juji 最早是从“极限特技”（Tricking，一种结合空翻与武术的街头运动）起家的，还曾登上过《美国达人秀》。发言者称赞 Juji 是他见过最积极乐观的人，其散发的创作活力和刻苦精神具有极强的感染力。 Juji 甚至彻底改变了发言者目前的腕力训练方式。大约一年半前，Juji 拜访了他的俱乐部，两人进行了一场高强度的“双手训练”（Two-hand work）。在俱乐部里有一条资深选手（Senior）与后辈（Junior）的标准对练规则：“资深者控场防御，后辈负责主攻。”这样可以让实力较弱的后辈控制训练强度。而为了帮后辈进一步红线冲高，实力更强的资深者（如发言者本人）会破例使用双臂进行防御。这场与 Juji 的训练让发言者突然顿悟，意识到这种极具专项针对性的“双手对抗训练”其重要性远超枯燥的器械举重。正是在那次极度疲劳却又充满乐趣的对练之后，他决定完全停止传统的大重量力量举。在此之前，他为了向 Juji 展示自己的训练方法，甚至在进行高强度台面技术训练的当天还去健身房冲了极限大重量。 ### [49:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2990s) 训练理念的转变与极端专项化在一场高强度的循环训练后，叙述者与同伴在俱乐部进行了一次“超棒的双臂桌上训练”。然而，他敏锐地察觉到当天早些时候进行的单项训练对晚上的表现产生了轻微的负面影响。这让他暗下决心：“我绝不能再让这种事发生，我必须确保把所有精力都投入到桌上训练中。” 尽管叙述者已经51岁，且在掰手腕（腕力）这项运动中竞争了30多年，但他依然保持着空前的谦逊和演进心态。他坦言自己从不停下学习的脚步，在每场赛事之间都会做出调整。这种不断寻求突破的追求，被对谈者赞许为“保持生活乐趣和持续成长的关键”。这次训练成为了叙述者训练生涯中的一个重要“分水岭”。他曾有一套针对不同比赛制定的、相对固定的个性化平衡训练配方。作为一名疯狂的运动爱好者，他不仅专注于腕力，还广泛观察其他运动项目以寻求灵感。如果比赛结果理想，他会保持现状；反之，他就会微调方案。而那一晚，他决定彻底放弃沉重的传统器械负重。他意识到，只要方法得当，高质量的两人对练（Two-arm work）就是全行业最顶级的训练方式，其专项针对性无可比拟。然而，这种对腕力专项化的极致追求，也让叙述者承受了外界常年的批评：他几乎完全不做任何传统意义上的全身力量训练。 * **极简日常：** 叙述者的全身性运动通常“只是散步”，不练箭步蹲，也不练腿，自嘲在其他运动指标上“表现很糟”。 * **专项化 vs. 跨项训练：** 他早年曾拥有非常全面的身体素质和广泛的训练背景，但他直言：“我真正看重的是成为冠军。我可以选择做一个能跑步、能深蹲、能硬拉的健康人；或者，我也可以选择当个‘混蛋’，去拼一把世界冠军的头衔。” * **对抗传统力量理论：** 对谈者提出传统观点，即通过深蹲和硬拉增强核心和全身基础，能够自然提升整体力量和基底。叙述者对此表示理解，但他表示在完成精细的腕力专项训练后，面对“如何击败 Levan”这一终极问题时，他的本能反应永远是“再多做几组腕弯举”。 --- ### [53:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3220s) 腕力界的巅峰巨兽：Levan Sagashvili 话题不可避免地转向了目前的行业天花板——来自格鲁吉亚的腕力奇迹 Levan Sagashvili。当对谈者看到 Levan 的照片时，震惊得直呼“这不可能是真的，这是 AI 生成的吧？”，甚至戏称他毛发浓密得像个“原始人”或“科学实验产物”。叙述者对 Levan 充满了由衷的赞赏和敬意，称他是“我们这项运动的巅峰”，同时也是个“非常聪明且酷的家伙”。Levan 拥有极其恐怖的身体天赋和统治力。格鲁吉亚这个国家似乎按比例产出了许多力量超乎常人的“怪人”，而 Levan 更是自2017年以来在赛场上保持全胜，彻底横扫并“压平”了整个腕力界。他是在世界锦标赛的“战壕”中一步步打拼出来的正统王者，绝非暴发户。在训练方法上，Levan 与叙述者截然不同： * **体量差距：** Levan 的体重常年维持在约420磅（约190公斤），而叙述者目前只有265磅。即使在比赛备战期，叙述者也只能勉强增重到300磅，双方有着多达120至135磅（约54-61公斤）的巨大体重劣势。 * **训练风格差异：** Levan 的训练更偏向于大重量的传统力量。他能做极其沉重的负重引体向上和“愚蠢般沉重”的二头弯举。叙述者透露，Levan 甚至可以用双手进行高达 **180公斤** 的弯举，其腕弯举的重量也是叙述者望尘莫及的。 * **技术与力量的博弈：** 叙述者坦言自己在纯力量上永远赶不上 Levan。如果说 Levan 的力量像一把简单粗暴的“大铁锤”，那么叙述者的策略则是追求“更精准的角度”。他专注于精细的手腕控制、大量的旋前（pronation）技巧以及极高的桌上技能训练。他自豪地表示：“从自负和傲慢的角度来说，我的训练比他更精准。”他必须像一只比特犬一样，精准地咬住对方的指尖并死死不放，以此来寻找胜机。 * **备战方式：** 当被问及为了备战下一次对决是否会加入举重训练来增重时，叙述者果断拒绝了。他的增重方式非常原始：“吃，然后待在我的地下室里。” --- ### [01:00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3604s) 鲜血交织的宿敌之战与传奇 G.O.A.T. 叙述者已经在竞技腕力领域深耕了32年，尝试过无数的训练体系。他深知虽然强大的划船力量和下肢力量在比赛中也会有存在感（有时赛后腿部会酸痛），但决定腕力比赛胜负的永远是手部和手腕上那些极度微小的细节。除了 Levan 之外，他的专项化训练在其他所有人身上都取得了成功。正是 Levan 的存在，如同幽灵般在公开组（无差别组）中不断鞭策着他，让他无法安于现有的级别冠军头衔。叙述者笑称：“如果不是他，我早就快乐地当我的冠军了。但当你不是最强的那一个时，你不会开心，你会竭尽全力。” 叙述者生动地回忆了自己与 Levan 在过去几年的两次历史性交锋，每一次都堪称惨烈： * **第一次对决：** Levan 直接撕裂了叙述者的二头肌。叙述者展示了自己的纹身——一只抓着415磅重量的猫。在赛前宣传中，叙述者曾戏称 Levan 是个“415磅的混蛋”，结果第二轮就被对方无情撕裂，第一场比赛彻底惨败。 * **2024年第二次对决：** 双方进入了腕力比赛中标志性的“绑带模式”（当选手因手心出汗滑脱时使用绑带固定）。在这场比赛的第一轮中，叙述者成功“阻止”（stop）了比赛，即让比赛陷入绝对的静止僵持。叙述者当时甚至陷入了震惊，不敢相信自己能做到这一步。然而，这场对抗极大地摧残了他的身体，Levan 的恐怖力量仿佛“撕裂了他的脊椎”，导致他在赛后长达四个月的时间里都无法正常行走。 * **规则与犯规：** 比赛中叙述者尝试采用顶峰翻转（Top-rolling）去限制对方的手腕，并迫使对方进入屈腕压（Flop wrist press）状态。然而因为叙述者的肩膀低过了桌面，被裁判判罚为“肱骨低于桌面（Decline humerus）”犯规。由于这是他的第二次犯规，在七局四胜制的规则下直接输掉了该局，随后被 Levan 彻底碾压。尽管如此，叙述者依然渴望一战，并透露两人在接下来的周末可能会一起训练，且未来肯定还会有一场宿命般的大战。最后，叙述者将这种时代的剧变与历史进行了对比。在2008年，叙述者曾击败过腕力界的传奇人物约翰·布岑克（John Brzenk）。John 被公认为该项目历史最佳（G.O.A.T.），从18岁一直统治到接近60岁，保持了长达25年几乎全胜的战绩。叙述者提到，好莱坞巨星西尔维斯特·史泰龙主演的经典腕力电影《超越巅峰》（Over the Top）中的主角原型正是 John Brzenk，那场电影中的比赛在现实中也是真实存在的。如今已经60多岁的 John 依然深度参与这项运动，并随时可能复出。 ### [01:06:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3991s) 传奇机械师：不举铁的掰手腕之神 John Brzenk 谈到电影《超越巅峰》（Over the Top）背后的真实赛事，嘉宾们指出片中最终夺冠角色的原型正是 John Brzenk。令人惊叹的是，这位被尊称为“山羊”（GOAT，史上最伟大选手）的传奇，在体型上其实并不算大级别怪物。在年轻健康的时候，他的体重大概只有 195 磅（约 88.5 公斤），即便在状态极佳的巅峰期也不过 230 磅左右。然而，就是这样一个个头不算魁梧的人，却在长达 25 年的时间里，将体重维持在 210 磅上下，默默地统治着整个世界腕力界，击败了地球上每一个试图挑战他的庞然大物。 John 的训练方式彻底颠覆了人们对力量项目的认知。在 40 年前，腕力运动的科学化程度远不如今天，大多数人认为想要变强就得通过练胸肌、练臀肌等传统健身方式来增强全身力量。而 John 则是最早践行“专项化”（Specialization）的代表人物。他从小和父亲一起练习掰手腕，他既不举铁，也不做任何其他形式的体能训练，他的训练方式极为纯粹——那就是不断地掰手腕。作为一名日常靠双手工作的机械师，他仿佛是天生为这项运动而生，虽然身高在 6 英尺 1 英寸到 2 英寸之间（约 185-188 厘米），但他的大拇指甚至比一般人的还要粗大。他凭借着无与伦比的技术水平，在互联网尚未普及的年代，无声地建立了自己的腕力帝国。 - **体重数据**：John Brzenk 巅峰期长达 25 年，体重保持在 210 磅左右，年轻时约 195 磅，最重不超过 230 磅。 - **专项训练**：John 是专项化训练的“海报封面人物”，核心训练全靠在桌上实战（Table Time），完全不依赖器械举铁。 - **职业身份**：他在日常生活中是一名机械师。 - **历史战绩**：说话者曾在 2008 年击败 John Brzenk，赢得了自己的第一个世界冠军头衔。 --- ### [01:11:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4261s) 腕力运动的“极致酸痛”与对抗哲学腕力运动之所以能吸引大量来自大力士（Strongman）和力量举（Powerlifting）领域的顶尖高手，正是因为它能带来一种其他运动无法比拟的独特生理刺激。很多力量健将初次尝试掰手腕后，都会遭遇无法想象的全身酸痛。说话者幽默地分享道，自己曾因为经历极其激烈的腕力对抗，导致身体极度酸痛，“连续几天甚至连路都走不动，连床都起不来”。这种独特的杀伤力源于人类身体的内在构造。从生物力学或进化角度来看，人类身体“对于‘阻止事情发生’（产生抗阻）的设计，其实远比‘让事情发生’（主动发力）要强壮得多”。腕力运动的核心正是对这种“锁死锁定”力量的极致淬炼。比赛中，选手们先是将身体锁死在特定的防御姿态中，然后试图强行将对方的防线“撕开”（Open the other person up）。而这种身体防线被硬生生撕裂、对抗的过程，对肌肉和神经系统来说是极其沉重的负荷。 --- ### [01:12:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4339s) 资本涌入与腕力运动的“UFC化” 随着时代的发展，腕力运动经历了从民间娱乐到职业体育的巨大蜕变。在早期，像 Mike Gould Classic 这样的传统赛事，胜者能拿到 500 美元的奖金就是“人生中最美好的一天”了。到了 2010 年前后，欧洲的 PAL 和北美的 WAL 等职业联赛相继成立，奖金飙升至数千甚至两万美元，选手开始有了赞助商，赛事也成功登上了 ESPN 频道。一个关键的分水岭出现在 2000 年前后的“千禧之年”，部分国家的政府（如格鲁吉亚、土耳其、哈萨克斯坦等）开始正式承认腕力为官方体育项目，为其注入了源源不断的官方资金与支持。而 2020 年的疫情虽然摧毁了原本各自为战的传统联赛，却也在废墟中催生了互联网时代的爆发。当人们被隔离在家时，短视频平台（TikTok 和 YouTube）彻底点燃了腕力的热度，因为腕力极短的对抗时间完美契合了现代人的“短视频注意力时长”。在这股浪潮下，“East vs. West”（东方对西方）赛事应运而生。它如今扮演着“腕力界 UFC”的角色，将全球最顶尖的怪物选手集中在同一个平台上，每隔 7 周就举办一次高规格的国际赛事。现在的顶级职业选手完全不需要副业，单靠比赛就能轻松拿足六位数的年薪。但与此同时，现在的世界冠军争夺战也变得空前残酷，且该赛事不设药物检测，如同赛车界的“F1”一样，选手们在技术、创新和身体极限上进行着毫无保留的全面军备竞赛。 - **赛事转型**：疫情后崛起的 East vs. West 成为行业标杆，被称为腕力界的 UFC。 - **办赛频率**：每 7 周举办一次国际性的大型赛事。 - **薪酬水平**：顶级选手可完全脱产，年收入稳定在健康的高额六位数（美元）。 - **药检机制**：East vs. West 赛事不进行药物检测（类似于 F1 的极限性能对抗）；而历史悠久的 WAF（世界腕力联合会）年度世锦赛则严格执行官方药检。 --- ### [01:18:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4685s) 秩序与混乱的修行：16个月的复仇长周期随着竞技水平达到金字塔尖，说话者坦言，如今技术上的纯熟已经开始向更宏大的生活哲学和生活方式溢出。为了维持极致的竞技状态，他必须在营养、睡眠等所有细节上做到完美。他提出了一个极具深度的见解：“完美的表现，往往存在于混乱与秩序的平衡点之间。”而想要成就伟大，适度的“混乱”不仅不可或缺，更是极具建设性的。受一位名叫 Mack 的遗传学家演讲启发，并结合小时候母亲用“贴纸奖励图表”激励自己的经历，说话者在训练中发明了一套独特的“双色贴纸管理法”：蓝色代表代表混乱（未达标），白色代表秩序。在经历重大赛事后，他会刻意让自己主动走入“混乱期”——这不是让生活失控着火，而是打破死板的日程表，不设限地去旅行、接触新事物、收集数据并打开思维。如今，他正处于人生中面临的最长的一个备战周期里：距离下一次对阵世界顶尖强者 Levan 还有足足 16 个月。他目前正利用这段宝贵的混乱期保持开放和旅行，调整出最完美的策略组合，以便在几个月后重新将自己“锁死在地下室”里，开启极致精准、不差毫厘的“秩序化”魔鬼训练。 ### [01:23:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4993s) 心理奉献与“南瓜训练法” 要在一项运动中保持顶尖水平，设定一个明确的终点线对于保持心理纪律至关重要。如果知道这种高强度的极度自律只需要维持四到五个月，选手在心理上就能咬牙坚持下来；但如果要一辈子都这样生活，生活中的各种混乱就会侵蚀进来，导致整个体系崩溃。终点线就像是一个心理辅助工具，让人在保持纪律的同时，也能在生活里安插一些满足人性的“混乱”与乐趣，偶尔跳出条条框框。然而，对于一位 51 岁的世界冠军而言，最难的事情就是把所有的精力都注入到一件极其简单的事情上——比如每天进行长达 10 个小时的手腕卷曲训练。这种心理上的极致奉献和枯燥重复，才是最艰难的部分。在备战期间，选手甚至会在早晨起床后，在妻子 Jod 的帮助下，一边吃东西一边不间断地做手腕卷曲。为了备战下一场比赛，选手的训练公式正在经历调整，此前他每天做 14 组（左右手各 7 组），而现在他决定回归一种被称为“南瓜训练法”（pumpkin training）的极端模式，即只练右手，完全放弃左手。这种训练法的灵感来源于种植那些在集市上展出的 800 磅巨型南瓜：如果你想收获一个庞然大物，就必须摘掉藤蔓上除了一朵花之外的所有花朵。 - **核心概念**：将所有资源与精力高度集中在单侧（右手），实行极端的专项化（Specialization）。 - **训练强度**：心理奉献的极限体现为每天进行长达 10 小时的手腕卷曲（Wrist Curls）。 - **过往经历**：这种“南瓜项目”此前曾持续实践过大约六年，期间左手完全不进行任何手腕卷曲等对抗训练。 --- ### [01:25:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5118s) 能量分配理论与“地狱男爵”们这种极端的单侧训练本质上是一种“能量资源分配”。人体的能量是有限的，并非像健美运动员那样追求匀称的体态，要在世界最高水平的腕力比赛中夺冠，就必须极度专注。虽然这种方法招致了许多年轻、资历尚浅的选手的批评，但处于同等水平的高级腕力运动员普遍能够理解，且或多或少都在进行某种程度的单侧侧重，只是本例更为极端。这种理论不仅源于对大自然的观察，也源于伤病后的代偿现象，以及圈内一些身体结构异于常人的选手所带来的启示。腕力界吸引了一些被称为“现实版地狱男爵”（Real life Hellboys）的奇人，比如 Oleg Zhokh 和 Matthias Schlitte。他们的特征是单侧手臂疯狂粗壮，宛如别人的大腿，而另一侧手臂则完全正常。以世界冠军 Oleg Zhokh 为例，他体重仅 165 到 170 磅，却拥有一只形似 300 磅壮汉的恐怖左臂，其肌肉附着点、肌腹形状和角度都异于常人。对此，选手提出了自己的个人理论：这可能源于某种先天性的血管分布异常（Blood flow disorder），使得更多的动脉血流集中流向单侧，从而在后天运动中极大地增强了基因表达与肌肉发展。 - **实力案例**：多年前选手曾与 165 磅的 Oleg Zhokh 进行左手对决，当时身为世界冠军的选手几乎被这个年轻人击败。 - **医学理论**：选手在与同样拥有该症状的德国国家冠军 Matthias Schlitte 交流后，坚信血液循环在组织修复和力量强化中扮演决定性角色，“心脏的自然搏动不足以滋养如此高负荷的局部结构，必须依靠持续运动带来高循环”。 - **突发意外**：Oleg 曾遭遇过一场极其惨烈的车祸，全身多处严重创伤甚至几近丧命，但他通过康复训练再度统治了 85 公斤级世界赛。 --- ### [01:32:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5521s) 重新打破平衡的艺术尽管外界对这种不平衡的训练方式是否会导致背部疾病或身体结构失衡表示担忧，但实践表明这些问题从未发生。有些射箭运动员会因为单侧拉弓而出现严重的身体失衡，甚至不得不购买反手弓来进行平衡训练，但在腕力这种追求极致单侧对抗的运动中，“平衡是一个被高估的概念”。平衡或许存在于某种理想化的乌托邦里，但如果目标是在现实世界中赢得右手的世界冠军，就必须让身体明确接收到这一极化信号，而不是用所谓的平衡去干扰它。这种哲学与巴西柔术（Jiu-Jitsu）中的某些流派不谋而合，例如 Eddie Bravo 的进攻体系几乎完全集中在身体的右侧，虽然他左侧同样具备黑带水平，但他选择将所有核心能量倾注于右侧，打造出极为致命的杀招。在世界顶尖的对抗中，将右手的实力从 99 分提升到 100 分的决定性飞跃，其价值远超左手退步 15 分的代价。这是一笔完全值得的交易。当前，选手在 basement 进行家庭训练时，已经将 85% 到 90% 的负荷分配给右手，左手仅保留 10% 左右用于维持时机感（Timing）。 > “如果我能做任何事让我的右手更进一步，哪怕这会让我的左手萎缩，也是一笔划算的交易。” --- ### [01:35:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5738s) 握力怪物与攀岩者的跨界降维打击近年来，攀岩运动员展现出的恐怖握力引发了广泛关注，其中挪威知名攀岩巨星 Magnus Midtbø 的频道中曾出现过一位名为 Yves Gravelle 的力量怪胎。Yves 的前臂粗壮如腿，甚至可以用手指在仅有 2 毫米宽的微小指力板孔洞上做悬挂。他甚至能在没有任何抓握点的光滑圆弧表面或者薄如信用卡的边缘上做引体向上，这种反人类的力量让人匪夷所思。这位体重仅 150 磅（其中前臂占比极大）的选手跨界进入腕力界，简直就像开启了“作弊码”。在他们共同居住的加拿大渥太华，有一场吸引了全赛区最强壮怪兽的传统赛事——渥太华公开赛（Ottawa Open）。Yves 在仅仅接触和训练腕力六周之后，就彻底横扫对手，直接夺得了该项赛事的冠军。 - **跨界表现**：Yves Gravelle 同时活跃在握力锦标赛（Grip Championships）中，该赛事被形象地称为“握力界的纯力量举”（Powerlifting for grip），而他同样是该领域的顶级天花板。 - **未来预测**：尽管 Yves 目前已经极具统治力，但选手断言他的指尖力量无人能及，且随着技术和Intricacies（细节技巧）的沉淀，他未来还会变得更强。 ### [01:39:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5942s) 攀岩者的握力与扳手腕的“墙壁”哲学谈到握力在不同运动中的转化，发言者们用了一个非常生动的比喻。在攀岩中，如果你有极强的抓握力，你就能爬上墙壁；但在实际的扳手腕（腕力）比赛中，你其实不想成为那个“攀岩者”，你反而想成为那面“墙壁”。也就是说，你要让对方很难抓握。虽然某些天赋异禀的选手有能力爬上任何墙壁，但一旦他学会了如何去扮演那面不可动摇的“墙壁”，他就会变得极其难以被战胜。主持人和嘉宾随后在节目中浏览并讨论了一些让人惊叹的视频。他们提到一位名叫 Eve 的选手，体重只有 150 磅左右，却被认为是“世界上最强壮的攀岩者”。视频中，Eve 展现了令人难以置信的握力，包括单臂使用粗柄（fat grip）做引体向上，以及用手指捏握（pinch grip）举起著名的托马斯·印奇哑铃（Thomas Inch dumbbell）。这种极其疯狂的握力连世界级强人 Magnus 在他面前都相形见绌。主持人惊叹道，他曾看过 Magnus 和埃迪·霍尔（Eddie Hall）一起训练的视频，Magnus 甚至能用每边 180 磅的重量做单臂划船，这已经足够“疯狂”了，然而在 Eve 这种怪兽般的握力面前，大家依然被深深震撼。 * **Eve 的身体数据与职业**：体重约 150 磅，但双臂肌肉极度发达，前臂粗壮得令人难以置信。他的主业其实是一位艺术家，负责制作电影面具，并且能攀爬任何东西。 * **重叠的运动天赋**：Eve 接触扳手腕这项运动还不到一年（从去年 11 月开始），但由于攀岩与腕力之间存在巨大的力量重合，他被认为拥有世界冠军的潜力，甚至预计在一两年内就能冲击北美顶级职业选手的水平。 --- ### [01:43:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6184s) 科学化训练、静态等长收缩与手部力量的价值嘉宾详细介绍了 Eve 独特的科学化训练方式，这与传统的盲目苦练大相径庭。Eve 的训练非常注重细节、具有渐进性且完全基于科学。在每次正式训练前，Eve 都会对自己的握力进行系统性的测试，并根据当天的状态来决定是否继续。如果测试结果感觉不对，他会毫不犹豫地果断中止或放弃当天的训练并继续休息。这种非常依赖数据和即时反馈的“测试机制”让习惯了“无论如何都要硬撑着练完”的嘉宾感到十分新奇和佩服。在观看 Eve 训练视频的过程中，发言者分析了他正在做的一项测试。这看起来是一项静态手腕测试，通过称重设备来测量他在静态状态下能够产生多少爆发力。这种“锁定的等长收缩（isometric strength）”或是负向力量，恰恰是腕力运动员最核心、最不可或缺的力量来源。 * **手部在功能链中的核心地位**：许多强人、力量举或其他力量项目的运动员，全身、肩膀甚至手臂都拥有巨大的力量，但由于这种力量在穿过肘部、手腕并最终到达手指的过程中会不断衰减，如果末端无法承受，最终只能发挥出一小部分。 * **格斗运动的类似教训**：在很多实用或功能性训练中，手往往是那个最致命的短板。主持人提到自己在练巴西柔术（jiu-jitsu）时从不使用助力带（straps），就是为了不想过度依赖肌肉而忽视了握力。类似的短板也存在于脚部，体能教练 Nick Kersonen 曾指出，许多格斗手最缺乏的就是“足部力量”，一旦足部力量崩溃，选手的移动、爆发力、闪避和拉近距离的能力都会随之全面崩溃。 --- ### [01:47:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6469s) 握力器数据对决与手腕角度的控制艺术随后，节目里引发了一场关于握力器测试数据的趣味讨论和相互调侃。视频中展示了一些选手的握力测试得分。世界上最好的攀岩者之一 Adam Ondra 捏出了 161 公斤，而 UFC 选手“黑兽”德里克·刘易斯（Derrick Lewis）更是凭借着沙包一样大的巨掌，在看起来完全没怎么用力的情况下轻松捏出了 218 公斤的高分。然而，真正让人目瞪口呆的是俄罗斯腕力巨擘维塔利·拉利汀（Vitali Laletin），视频里他的测试成绩达到了夸张的 351（或手部实际力量对应的 154 公斤），这个数据甚至曾是世界纪录。嘉宾开玩笑说，尽管 Vitali 拥有如此恐怖的握力，但自己的测试数据可能只有可怜的 70 磅（约合 31-32 公斤左右），甚至自嘲“手已经废了”，但自己依然能通过技术和战术在比赛中战胜他。主持人对此表示难以置信，因为嘉宾年轻时甚至能把 3 号“握力之王”（Captains of Crush）握力器捏个 8 到 9 次。随后主持人拿出了桌上的一个 200 磅握力器让嘉宾尝试，嘉宾试了一下直呼“做不到，乔，我真的捏不动”，而主持人则开玩笑说自己可以整天玩这个，并邀请嘉宾一起去扳手腕。 * **握力的局限性**：虽然握力很美妙，但嘉宾强调，“握力只是控制力的一小部分”。腕力比赛中更高级的控制力取决于对角度的掌控（如内旋、外旋、旋转等），而纯粹的指力抓握只是整条控制链上的最后一个“拐点”或最后拼图。 * **Michael Eckert 的案例**：主持人提到他在 Instagram 上关注了一位名叫 Michael Eckert 的海军陆战队成员（账号为 @michael_eckert_fit）。此人体重不高，外表看起来并不算魁梧，但他拥有极其粗壮的前臂，能做极其疯狂的单臂引体向上，并且在一种高精度、几乎没有旷量的滚花金属握力器上捏出了 119 公斤（约合 262 磅）的惊人成绩，比主持人的成绩高出了足足 100 磅。 --- ### [01:53:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6780s) 腕力界的“终极怪兽”与生长激素的传闻在节目的最后，两人的话题转向了那些超越常理的药理学巨兽。他们提到都在祈祷一位名叫 Smay 的极限选手能够正式加入腕力运动。主持人直言不讳地称那个人为“彻头彻尾的怪兽”，甚至用“怪物中的怪物”来形容他，认为他的手大得在视频里看起来都不真实。因为对方在社交媒体上对自己的用药行为极为公开坦诚，两人也顺势聊起了关于他的“高科技”传闻。主持人提到曾有人在录音室里解释过该选手摄入生长激素（GH）的夸张剂量。虽然嘉宾表示后来看到过该选手出来辟谣、否认自己用了那么多的视频，但两人还是对最初传闻中提到的“每天注射 100 个单位（units）的生长激素”这一荒谬数字感到震惊。主持人惊叹道，每天 100 个单位简直不可思议，这完全就是人为制造垂体功能紊乱，吃这么多整个人会直接变成像巨人症一样的超级巨无霸。 ### [01:54:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=6854s) 基因怪物Smay与消失的Instagram 讨论从浏览一名被称为非人怪物的强壮运动员（Smay）的照片开始。说话者们对比了他17岁时的照片与近照，感叹他年轻时虽然已经非常强壮，但至少还像个“正常的运动员”，而现在的他简直就像“绿巨人”（Incredible Hulk），手臂和二头肌的围度夸张到不真实，仿佛是“自然或科学造就的完全畸形儿”。当他们试图翻看他的Instagram时，发现该账号已经被封禁了。大家开始开玩笑地猜测原因，调侃道难道是因为他“在激励人们变成怪物”？尽管无法查看官方主页，他们还是在一个搬运或粉丝页面上看到了他进行腕力训练的视频。画面中，他正在用惊人的重量进行旋前（pronation）手腕翻转训练，展现出世界级的力量和恐怖的爆发力跳跃。让人震惊的是，这个体重高达340到350磅、拥有“荒谬力量”的家伙居然没有参加任何正式比赛。谈到这种纯粹的蛮力，说话者提到了Mark Coleman的名言——"力量是一种技能"。如果这个怪物能够真正掌握杠杆位置和基础运动模式，他在任何力量项目（无论是力量举、大力士还是巴西柔术）中都将达到世界级水平。 * Smay的体重：约340至350磅 * 训练核心：旋前（pronation）手腕翻转，能拉起极其恐怖的重量 * 引用名言：Mark Coleman曾说过"力量是一种技能"（"strength is a skill"） --- ### [01:57:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7058s) 击败巨兽Brian Shaw的Leonitis Arona 话题随后转向了一项原本意图撮合的对决：让Smay对阵一位名叫Leonitis Arona的德国年轻冠军。听到这个名字，有人不禁赞叹“真是个伟大的名字”。Leonitis在大约六周前的一场极具观赏性的德国比赛中，成功击败了传奇大力士Brian Shaw。这一结果让所有人大呼不可思议，因为在人们的认知中，Brian Shaw拥有全人类最疯狂的握力，在任何身体对抗中击败他都显得极其荒谬。Leonitis在状态好时体重约为285磅，定位更接近健美运动员与腕力选手的结合体。这场胜利完美诠释了技术在腕力运动中的决定性作用。虽然Brian Shaw比对方重了整整100磅，但腕力世界里“等级森严”。演讲者借此自嘲道，自己绝对没有这些怪物的力量，甚至“前50名里的每个人都比我强”，但他却能高居公开组世界第二。腕力是一门“微型武术”，充斥着大量的重复训练、位置理解和劲道衔接。这就像巴西柔术传奇Marcelo Garcia一样，虽然体型不占优，却拥有最疯狂的夹紧力。力量的本质在于动作的千锤百炼，从而在脚底到发力的过程中构建出完美的能量链条。 * Leonitis Arona：德国年轻腕力冠军，体重约285磅，在六周前击败了Brian Shaw * 实力对比：Brian Shaw比Leonitis重约100磅，且练腕力不足两年 * 演讲者自述：力量不及前50名的任何人，但凭借高超技术位列公开组世界第二（"number two in the world in the open division"） --- ### [01:00:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3645s) 神秘的后院巨兽Tom Havlin与隐世高手随后，大家聊起了另一位隐居在澳大利亚的神秘力量巨兽Tom Havlin。这个怪人经常在自家的后院里，穿着工作靴、牛仔裤和“该死的衬衫”进行各种疯狂的极限训练。有趣的是，他在网上发布的绝大多数照片都只有背影，这引发了说话者的一个理论：他怀疑Tom可能是某种特种部队（SF）成员，因为组织纪律要求而不得不保持低调。尽管有人向相关人员打听后予以了否认，但Tom依然保持着神秘。他身高6英尺8英寸，体重接近400磅，却保持着惊人的低体脂率。与Brian Shaw那种长得像“巨大猩猩”的体型不同，Tom看起来更像是一个“超级运动员”，浑身肌肉线条分明，且极具灵活性，尤其是前臂与二头肌连接处的肌肉结构更是令人匪夷所思。演讲者透露，自己经常会给Tom发信息，问他：“老兄，你什么时候来玩腕力？”而Tom的态度也比较乐观。在力量科学的世界里，确实存在着一批不愿过早露面的“地下高手”。比如拉斯维加斯的Eric Spot，作为前卧推世界纪录保持者，他在自家地下室里就已经达到了破纪录的重量，但“直到他能打破世界纪录的那天，他才去参加力量举比赛”。在此之前，他甚至都不屑于现身。这些隐世高手在地下室或后院里默默将自己磨练到行业最顶尖，才肯真正走入公众视野。 * Tom Havlin：生活在澳大利亚，身高6英尺8英寸，体重近400磅，体型拉丝（shredded） * 行为特征：在后院穿着工作靴牛仔裤训练，极少露脸，被调侃长得像“超级运动员”而非“巨大猩猩” * Eric Spot：来自拉斯维加斯，前卧推世界纪录保持者，在地下室练出破纪录实力后才首次登台参赛 --- ### [01:04:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3896s) 为什么腕力是一项“格斗运动” 节目最后，说话者们就腕力的本质展开了一场深刻的辩论。当被问及为什么将腕力视为一项“格斗运动”（combat sport）时，说话者坦言，腕力虽然无法直接应用于街头实战，但所谓的“真实格斗”本身就很难定义。现代战争早就发明了枪支，如今更是进入了无人机和“大拇指操作”的时代，纯粹的肉体搏杀在现实战争中已经变得不再核心。因此，腕力完全符合格斗运动的定义，因为它是两个人之间百分之百的直接肉体对抗，是一场“隐喻性的搏斗”。与传统的纯力量举重项目那种僵硬的指标测量不同，腕力包含着大量的调整、去适应、即时决策以及战术博弈。如果一个选手空有蛮力而不会思考、不会变通、不会在比赛中与对手“对话”，那就注定会失败。腕力的竞技魅力和巴西柔术一模一样：一个训练了四五年的柔术练习者，哪怕面对Brian Shaw那样的单纯巨汉，也能轻松将其绞杀。在腕力桌上也是如此，只要经过四五年的专业训练，技术和肌肉记忆形成的效率就能让你轻松击败任何没有练过的壮汉，这也是为什么在腕力世界里“小个子碾压大块头”的场景屡见不鲜。 * 运动定性：腕力被强调为“100%的格斗运动”，核心在于两人的直接博弈与隐喻性战斗 * 竞技要素：包含调整、适应、决策、战术游戏，而不仅仅是力量的绝对大小 * 技术价值：四五年的专业训练足以击败任何未经过训练的纯力量巨汉，如同柔术对力量的克制 ### [02:08:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7716s) 掰手腕与格斗运动的心理博弈 Devon 谈到，真正的竞技不仅仅是力量的对抗，更在于理解对手的错误、明确自己的位置与行动、顺应对方的攻势流动，而不是单纯硬碰硬。对方对此深表赞同，并指出 Devon 确实把掰手腕当成了一项格斗运动，尤其是在心理层面上，他总是在试图引入这种博弈。Devon 坦言自己确实在努力将这些元素融入进去。随后，话题转向了 Devon 丰富的军旅生涯。Devon 透露，他在加拿大军队一支名为 JTF2（第二联合特遣部队）的精锐特种部队服役了长达 20 年，其中有 16 年都待在该单位。他坦言自己非常热爱那段时光，如果可以的话，他至今都想留在那里，但后来的局势变得太复杂，迫使他不得不选择离开。 --- ### [02:09:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7763s) 在特种部队与职业掰手腕之间的艰难抉择 Devon 解释说，离开军队的主要原因与掰手腕以及这项运动日益增加的曝光度有关。尽管他一生都在掰手腕，但在 2014 年左右，他的比赛开始在 ESPN 上播出。在这之前，他在公众眼中并未公开其军人身份，为了确保行动安全（OPSEC），大家都以为他只是个农民。作为一名现役的 JTF2 队员，匿名性至关重要——你不能在坐飞机时随时被别人拍照。随着 Devon 在掰手腕领域的名声大噪，部队首长明确告诉他：“Devon，你必须做出选择。” 面对这个从小就热爱的运动和深爱的军旅生涯，Devon 陷入了极大的纠结。最终，部队给他提供了一个折中方案：一年的无薪假期。Devon 接受了。在那段艰难的无薪日子里，他和妻子甚至不得不靠摘苹果、吃沙丁鱼度日，甚至给去上学的孩子们带的零食都是干苹果。夫妻俩常常焦虑地自问：“我的天，我们是疯了吗？” * 2014 年，Devon 的掰手腕比赛登上 ESPN 频道，导致其现役特种部队身份面临曝光风险。 * 为了维持行动安全，Devon 此前在公众面前一直伪装成一名普通的农民。 * 部队最终开出了“一年无薪假”的最终条件，迫使他在 39 岁时为了掰手腕而选择冒险。 --- ### [02:10:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7851s) 使命感的幻灭与体育运动的救赎 Devon 提到自己曾经历过 7 次海外部署。当一个人执行了太多次任务后，很多事情的界限就会开始变得模糊。他认为生命中的一切都关乎“使命”，如果没有一个好的使命，生活就会陷入一团糟。在特种部队生涯的后期，他开始对这些使命产生怀疑。大多数人加入并留在军队，是因为发自内心地相信自己正在某种程度上造福人类或文明，没人是为了钱留在那里。但当你在那个世界驻留得足够久，事情就会变得令人困惑，你会开始怀疑自己做的是否正确。相比之下，“体育是美丽的”，它在清晰地构建文明；而战争走到最后，会变成一种让人迷失方向的雇佣兵层面。与此同时，由于其他单位出现了行动安全问题并波及到了全队的政策，部队全面叫停了所有队员的业余活动。首长对他说：“Devon，你不能再掰手腕了。” Devon 彻底震惊了，因为他当时正是现役的世界公开组冠军。面对部队“要么放弃，要么接受一年无薪假”的最后通牒，他决定和妻子放手一搏。 --- ### [02:13:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8031s) 39 岁时的豪赌：不赢便无以为家对于一个出身平凡、没有家庭背景的人来说，放弃稳定的军队收入是一场巨大的赌博。Devon 此时已经 39 岁，作为运动员来说已经不再年轻。这意味着在那一年里，掰手腕不再只是他的业余爱好，而变成了关乎生存的饭碗——“如果我不赢，我的孩子们就……我可能不得不卖掉房子。” Devon 回忆起当时在 WAL 决赛时的巨大压力。那是在 225 磅级别，第一名可以获得 20,000 美元的奖金，同时他有一位非常棒的赞助商，承诺只要他赢了，赞助费就翻倍。但如果输了，他将一无所有。在后台的热身区，Devon 正紧张地调整呼吸，准备迎战决赛对手 Ron Bath。这时，相识多年、待他如亲长兄般的导师 Mike Gould 走过来对他说：“Devon，你 18 岁的时候可是跑步去训练的。你今天来到这里只是因为你热爱它，别担心那些，去享受比赛吧。” 这句话点醒了 Devon，他放下包袱上场享受比赛，最终成功赢得了胜利。 * 2014 年 WAL 决赛：Devon 参加 225 磅 division 级别，冠军奖金为 20,000 美元。 * 赞助协议：赞助商承诺对他的比赛奖金进行等额匹配（Double 奖金），但前提是必须夺冠，失败则毫无收益。 * 心理转折点：导师 Mike Gould 在后台的一番话，帮助 39 岁的 Devon 缓解了“输掉一切”的极端焦虑。 --- ### [02:15:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8123s) 结束 20 年军旅，开启第二人生在 Devon 休无薪假期间，军方突然改变了态度，要求他公开自己的特种部队身份，并将他推到了征兵宣传的第一线。当他一年后返回部队并询问能否回到原先的岗位时，上级问他：“你还会继续掰手腕吗？” 得到肯定的答复后，他被直接分配去了征兵部门。当时这恰好是他在加拿大军队服役的第 19 年。按照当时的规定，服役满 20 年即可获得基础退休金。于是，在第 19 到第 20 年间，Devon 跑遍了整个加拿大，向人们宣讲 JTF2 有多传统和优秀。满了 20 年后，他的军旅生涯便正式画上了句号。截至接受采访时，Devon 已经做了 10 年的全职职业掰手腕运动员。他承认在 39 岁做出这样的转变是极度令人心惊肉跳的，他曾觉得自己非常自私和不负责任，担心会因此断送了孩子们的大学学费。但庆幸的是，一切都挺过来了。现在他过着简单而美丽的平民生活，每天都能待在家里陪伴家人，而以前特种部队的生活则极其复杂和难以平衡，他甚至不知道自己和妻子当年是如何熬过来的。 --- ### [02:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8286s) 战火的洗礼与心理“开关”的建立 Devon 认为特种部队那种“不容失败”的残酷环境和终极代价，是他一生中最好的老师，其中的纪律至今仍在滋养和启发着他的体育生涯。谈到在阿富汗坎大哈的海外部署，Devon 笑着回忆起一段往事：当时外界并不知道他的现役特种兵身份，有些选手在网上嘲讽说“Devon 是害怕了才不敢来参加这项比赛”。Devon 当时在战区心里暗骂：“老子现在正在真刀真枪的战场上搏命呢，我会害怕去打一个 Nearro Cup？” 战火不仅塑造了他的性格，也带来了创伤。第一期任务结束回国后，Devon 饱受创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）的折磨，每天醒来心跳暴速。他意识到，人可以任由心理创伤摧毁自己，也可以选择治愈并发展出韧性。Devon 找到的方法是学会“在心理上分离出另一个自己”，即人们常说的建立一个“开关”（Switch）。在后方基地或陪伴母亲时，他是一个温和的普通人；但一旦到了前线或赛场上，他会彻底切换人格，创造出一个极度渴望暴力、渴望攻击性并以此为乐的冷酷角色，因为只有这种心理状态才能让你在极端的环境中活下来并发挥失常的战力。 > "你并不是一成不变的某一个东西。你想成为什么，你就可以是什么，你能够去改变并成为那个角色。而你在那个角色里扮演的时间越长，你在上场时就能发挥得越自如。" --- ### [02:23:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8582s) 直面恐惧的极端脱敏法为了建立起那种在战场上高效执行任务的强悍人格，Devon 分享了他的具体步骤：首先是必须在脑海中彻底接受最坏的结果。比如在面对跳伞恐惧时（他其实并不喜欢从飞机上跳下来），他的做法是反复、不间断地观看各种降落伞发生故障失败的视频。通过这种极端的视觉刺激，他让自己对这种恐惧彻底脱敏并习以为常。在面对战争的生死时，他也采用了同样的心理机制。他首先在内心接受了“自己可能会死”的宿命，并说服自己这没关系，因为他相信这个事业和使命。一旦解决了对死亡的恐惧，剩下的问题就是如何达到最佳的执行状态。Devon 总结道，你必须在内心深处找到一种方法去热爱你所做的事，去热爱那种暴力与攻击性。这种潜能存在于每个人的身体里，关键在于根据不同的场景去激活对应的心理机制。 ### 理论与实践的鸿沟：心理学无法解释的战场体验戴文（Devin）谈到他如何将某种心理状态融入到自己的掰手腕比赛中。罗根（Joe Rogan）顺着这个话题指出，没有任何一个心理学家能够真正理解这种极端体验。罗根认为，书本上的理论和学校里的学习，与现实世界中随时可能丧命或必须夺取他人生命的极端场景之间，有着巨大的鸿沟。他对于那些指导拳手备战的运动心理学家或格斗心理学家一直持怀疑态度，直言如果没有亲身经历，“那纯粹只是理论”。罗根情绪有些激动地表示，在人类能做出的最疯狂的事情——跳伞降落并枪击敌人时，试图保持理智，这完全是另一回事，“地球上还有比这更疯狂的事吗？依我看，没有。” 戴文承认自己以前也有过同样的看法，但他现在的态度有所改变。他认为人生的意义在于追求“卓越与精湛的掌控力”（excellence and mastery）。无论身处哪个领域，是当兵、做生意、搞艺术还是务农，都有不同的境界。戴文打趣说，有的农民地里长满杂草、不愿早起，而有的农民则像个“疯子”一样极致敬业，戴文认为自己就是后一种级别的狂热者，在掰手腕领域找到了让自己舒适的节奏并成为了大师。他甚至幽默自嘲道：“现在我是掰手腕界的蓝衣鲍尼（Bonnie Blue），大家都放马过来吧，我能和任何人过招。” --- ### 阿富汗遭遇“坎大哈巨型军阀” 罗根将话题转到了一个看似荒诞却引人入胜的传闻上，询问戴文在坎大哈服役时是否听说过“坎大哈巨人”（Kandahar Giant）的传说。戴文立刻回答“当然听说过”，并分享了一段自己亲眼目睹的震撼经历。戴文解释说，当时他所在的部队正在帕格威（Pangway）以北一个被群山环绕的大山谷中进行为期两天的机动演习。他坦言自己非常讨厌这种开着卡车到处晃荡、主动寻找交火点的任务。作为一名负责重机枪的枪手，戴文虽然并不掌握所有高层情报，但他的视野极好，能看清前方发生的一切。当时他们正准备前往一个村庄，并与当地的一位军阀会面。戴文解释说，阿富汗当地的政治体制与北美完全不同，那里遵循丛林法则，“该地区最厉害的狠角色就会成为老大”。那名军阀带着随从从村子里开出来大约 500 米，而戴文所在的军车则停在距离会面点约 200 米远的地方。当他们的军官带着几个人走上前去时，戴文通过光学瞄准镜看到了震惊的一幕：那个军阀极其魁梧，身形足足有普通人的两倍大，身高看起来足足有 8 英尺（约 2.44 米）多。 * **目击细节**：戴文回忆，他们的军官站在那个阿富汗大汉面前，身高才刚到对方的胸口下沿。那人留着大胡子，异常宽阔，而他身边的随从全都是正常体型。 * **对于体型的争论**：罗根惊叹“8 英尺太疯狂了”。戴文坚定地坚称：“我通过瞄准镜看得清清楚楚……他绝对不可能比这矮，他太巨大了，肩膀甚至有普通人的两倍宽。”戴文表示，尽管这听起来很疯，但那是该地区结构化领导层的产物，最强壮的人才能当老大。幸运的是，那次会面很讲道理，双方最终“解决了问题”，并没有爆发冲突。 --- ### 加拿大克里族森林里的隐藏巨人与基因异数听到戴文在阿富汗的见闻，罗根感到难以置信。然而戴文接着透露，他不仅在阿富汗见过巨人，在加拿大北部的一个名为奥吉布莫（Ojibumo）的克里族（Cree）村庄里，他也遇到过颠覆认知的高大人类。当时戴文去那里参加一场掰手腕比赛，当他走上当地冰球馆的楼梯时，迎面走来一个壮汉。身高 6 英尺 5 英寸（约 1.96 米）的戴文抬头望去，发现自己的头顶居然只到对方的乳头位置。戴文描述那个克里族人拥有硕长而畸形的大手，面部轮廓异于常人，仿佛电影《七宝奇谋》（The Goonies）里的角色。当戴文震惊地问对方多高时，那人只是笑笑，并随口说：“我爸身高 8 英尺 11 英寸（约 2.72 米）。”戴文严肃地对罗根说，世界上确实存在很多不为吉尼斯世界纪录所知的隐世巨汉，他们住在深山老林里。罗根随后让助手杰米（Jamie）在电脑上搜索相关记录，查到了一名来自该地区、体重 367 磅、身高 8 英尺 2.5 英寸的 33 岁男性的资料。戴文指出，克里族人本就体型高大，如果能坚持传统饮食而不是现代垃圾食品，他们的基因优势会更明显。 * **坎大哈巨人传说**：罗根提到了网络上盛传的美国军方在阿富汗山区遭遇 12 英尺（约 3.66 米）高、长着六根手指和六个脚趾的巨人的故事，并询问其真伪。 * **超自然看法**：戴文坦言自己相信这些传闻，认为世界上总有打破常规的“异数”。他甚至幽默地开玩笑说，神话中的“拿非利人”（Nephilim）或者某些外星造物曾造访地球并留下了后代，也有可能是隐性基因结合的结果。戴文赞叹阿富汗气候完美、河流丰沛、土地肥沃，非常适合农业发展，“如果我是个 12 英尺高的巨人，想选个世外桃源生活，我也会选在那里”。 --- ### 伊拉克埃尔比勒的恶魔附身与驱魔事件虽然戴文在阿富汗服役时没碰到过坎大哈巨人的当事人，但他分享了另一个让他距离更近、更加毛骨悚然的真实故事——发生在伊拉克古城埃尔比勒（Erbil）的恶魔附身事件。戴文强调，他的战友圈子很小，当事人是他非常信任、甚至曾住同一个寝室的亲密搭档。这位年轻士兵平日里超级聪明、表现优秀，却在某次战区任务中突然遭遇了“恶魔附身”。根据战友们的回忆，异状发生时，那名士兵全身冰冷、关节锁死，随后开始疯狂地“说方言”（speaking in tongues）。令人恐惧的是，他突然间掌握了自己从未学过的多种语言，并且能够准确说出在场每一个人的生活秘密和从小到大犯下的所有“罪行”。部队起初将他送往医疗系统，但医生束手无策。随后，随军的神父（Padre）介入并现场对其进行了驱魔仪式（exorcism）。 > "那名神父说，他居然认识那个恶魔。因为神父之前已经在三四个不同的人身上为这个恶魔做过驱魔了，那个恶魔就像在不同的士兵之间跳来跳去一样。" * **事件的后遗症与现状**：戴文透露，这场附身持续了大约一周到十天的时间。虽然士兵最终恢复了意识，但整个人的精神彻底垮了，无法再继续服役，最终选择了因病退伍（medical retirement）。直到现在，他每周都必须去教堂向教会报到并接受观察。 * **体验的质感**：当事人后来告诉戴文，在被附身期间，他能清晰地记得发生的一切，但他就像是一个无法控制自己身体的“乘客”，只能眼睁睁看着恶魔操纵自己。罗根听后感到脊背发凉，坦言自己绝不想和这种当事人面对面交谈。罗根最后总结道，如果恶魔真的要造访人间，战争频发且历史悠久的古老地带（如伊拉克），确实是最有可能的选择。 ### [02:40:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9643s) 独特的马丁与潜在的节目邀约谈话在一种略带神秘与轻松的氛围中继续。讲者提到某位名叫马丁（Martin）的人，言语中充满敬意与调侃。他坦言生活中有许多事情自己无法完全解释，甚至有时会觉得被误解，但他现在的态度非常豁达，直言“无论如何，我知道自己并非无所不知”。他开玩笑说，自己现在就像是在地下室里独自做着手腕卷举练习一样，专注于自己的世界。这番话引发了现场的阵阵笑声。随后，大家开始探讨让马丁上节目的可能性。讲者坚定地认为马丁一定会愿意来节目上分享他的故事，而这让旁边的杰米（Jamie）感到有些紧张。讲者极力赞赏马丁，称他是一个“很酷的家伙”和“伟大的士兵”，言语间流露出对他的喜爱。 - 讲者表达豁达的生活态度，开玩笑说要在地下室独自练手腕。 - 众人讨论邀请马丁上节目的可能性，杰米表现得有些紧张。 - 讲者对马丁给予高度评价，称其为伟大的士兵。 --- ### [02:41:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=9696s) 狂野人生、兄弟的蜡烛与温暖谢幕乔（Joe）感慨地对讲者说，他经历了一段“相当狂野的人生”。讲者则非常乐观地回应道，这一切都棒极了，充满了乐趣，并且很高兴能来到这里。随着谈话接近尾声，讲者动情地表示，这次对话在某种 serious 的意义上，帮他完成了一个关于他兄弟的心愿，像是“闭合了一个循环”。乔随即向观众解释了其中的缘由。原来，在网络上结识讲者之前，乔就已经认识了讲者的兄弟。随后，乔展示了一支由讲者兄弟亲手制作的蜡烛。虽然讲者的兄弟已经不在人世，但乔郑重承诺“这支蜡烛将一直留在这里”。最后，讲者热情地邀请乔体验腕力运动，开玩笑说要帮他提升握力，乔则笑着婉拒了。大家互相祝愿，并提到讲者在未来16个月内将面临一场与“巨人”的对决，大家相约在此之前可能再次相聚。 - 讲者认为自己的人生是一段“充满乐趣”的狂野旅程。 - 乔展示了讲者已故兄弟制作的蜡烛，并承诺会将其一直保留在演播室。 - 讲者向乔发出腕力训练的邀请，遭到乔的幽默拒绝。 - 众人提及16个月后的重大比赛，并在温馨的道别声中结束了录制。 ## Notable quotes > [00:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=54s) 我把这称作‘武器化关节炎’（Weaponized Arthritis）。因为在某些时候，你可以利用这种丧失的活动范围来为你服务。 — Devon Larratt > [11:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=677s) 在我的视角里，腕力运动的开局核心动作被称为‘rising’（起手/扬后手）。就像电影《超越巅峰》（Over the Top）里演的那样，这是争夺更好把位的关键。一旦你能迫使对手的指尖发力来抓紧你，他们的身体效能就会大幅下降。 — Devon Larratt > [19:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=1190s) 两个 Leavonne 我一个都赢不了。 — Devon Larratt > [49:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=2990s) 我真正看重的是成为冠军。我可以选择做一个能跑步、能深蹲、能硬拉的健康人；或者，我也可以选择当个‘混蛋’，去拼一把世界冠军的头衔。 — Devon Larratt > [53:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3220s) 从自负和傲慢的角度来说，我的训练比他更精准。 — Devon Larratt > [01:00:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=3604s) 如果不是他，我早就快乐地当我的冠军了。但当你不是最强的那一个时，你不会开心，你会竭尽全力。 — Devon Larratt > [01:18:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=4685s) 完美的表现，往往存在于混乱与秩序的平衡点之间。 — Devon Larratt > [01:32:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=5521s) 如果我能做任何事让我的右手更进一步，哪怕这会让我的左手萎缩，也是一笔划算的交易。 — Devon Larratt > [01:57:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=7054s) 力量是一种技能 — Mark Coleman > [02:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8286s) 老子现在正在真刀真枪的战场上搏命呢，我会害怕去打一个 Nearro Cup？ — Devon Larratt > [02:18:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8286s) 你并不是一成不变的某一个东西。你想成为什么，你就可以是什么，你能够去改变并成为那个角色。而你在那个角色里扮演的时间越长，你在上场时就能发挥得越自如。 — Devon Larratt > [02:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0&t=8700s) 那名神父说，他居然认识那个恶魔。因为神父之前已经在三四个不同的人身上为这个恶魔做过驱魔了，那个恶魔就像在不同的士兵之间跳来跳去一样。 — Devon Larratt ## Mentioned Joe Rogan, Devon Larratt, John Brzenk, Thor, Hafþór Björnsson, Crazy George, Dr. Pollock, JujiMufu, John Call, David Goggins, Vitaly Laletin, Leanne Drain, Johnny Roberts, Troy Eaton, Ryan, Brian Shaw, Eddie Hall, Louis Simmons, Vitor Belfort, Mike Gould, Levan Sagashvili, Sylvester Stallone, PAL, WAL, ESPN, WAF, Mack, Jod, Oleg Zhokh, Matthias Schlitte, Eddie Bravo, Magnus Midtbø, Yves Gravelle, Nick Kersonen, Adam Ondra, Derrick Lewis, Michael Eckert, Smay, Leonitis Arona, Marcelo Garcia, Tom Havlin, Eric Spot, Ron Bath, Jamie, Martin [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmejzHXudq0)

Source quotes

[0:54] Devon Larratt: 我把这称作‘武器化关节炎’（Weaponized Arthritis）。因为在某些时候，你可以利用这种丧失的活动范围来为你服务。 [11:17] Devon Larratt: 在我的视角里，腕力运动的开局核心动作被称为‘rising’（起手/扬后手）。就像电影《超越巅峰》（Over the Top）里演的那样，这是争夺更好把位的关键。一旦你能迫使对手的指尖发力来抓紧你，他们的身体效能就会大幅下降。 [19:50] Devon Larratt: 两个 Leavonne 我一个都赢不了。 [49:50] Devon Larratt: 我真正看重的是成为冠军。我可以选择做一个能跑步、能深蹲、能硬拉的健康人；或者，我也可以选择当个‘混蛋’，去拼一把世界冠军的头衔。 [53:40] Devon Larratt: 从自负和傲慢的角度来说，我的训练比他更精准。 [60:04] Devon Larratt: 如果不是他，我早就快乐地当我的冠军了。但当你不是最强的那一个时，你不会开心，你会竭尽全力。 [78:05] Devon Larratt: 完美的表现，往往存在于混乱与秩序的平衡点之间。 [92:01] Devon Larratt: 如果我能做任何事让我的右手更进一步，哪怕这会让我的左手萎缩，也是一笔划算的交易。 [117:34] Mark Coleman: 力量是一种技能 [138:06] Devon Larratt: 老子现在正在真刀真枪的战场上搏命呢，我会害怕去打一个 Nearro Cup？ [138:06] Devon Larratt: 你并不是一成不变的某一个东西。你想成为什么，你就可以是什么，你能够去改变并成为那个角色。而你在那个角色里扮演的时间越长，你在上场时就能发挥得越自如。 [145:00] Devon Larratt: 那名神父说，他居然认识那个恶魔。因为神父之前已经在三四个不同的人身上为这个恶魔做过驱魔了，那个恶魔就像在不同的士兵之间跳来跳去一样。

Source quotes

[0:53] Devon Larratt: weaponized arthritis [17:53] Devon Larratt: the high rep training heals me... it's a form of healing almost [21:11] Devon Larratt: Never underestimate the power of a grandmother [68:04] Devon Larratt: the last of the small super heavyweights [128:36] Devon Larratt: Part of being an operator is you know you have to you have to be anonymous, [130:51] Devon Larratt: things start to gray out a little bit. [140:41] Devon Larratt: completely scared shitless [145:07] Joe Rogan: the craziest thing a human being can do [147:28] Devon Larratt: the baddest dude in the region becomes in charge. [161:36] Joe Rogan: pretty wild life. [161:36] Devon Larratt: closing the loop for something with my brother,

Original transcript

[0:01] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. [0:03] >> The Joe Rogan Experience. [0:06] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY [0:08] NIGHT. All day. [0:12] >> Check. Check. [music] What's happening, [0:13] my man? [0:14] >> I'm so happy. [0:15] >> So happy to see you. [0:16] >> Wow. [0:17] >> What's going on? [0:18] >> Thank you so much. First of all, [0:19] >> pleasure. [0:20] >> Feel like uh you know, you are the [0:23] loudspeaker of the planet, man. And I'm [0:25] so honored to be here. [0:26] >> That's a very uncomfortable position to [0:28] be in. I'll tell you that. It's very [0:29] weird. [0:30] >> Yeah, I bet. [laughter] I bet. But look [0:32] at I mean, you've talked to everybody in [0:34] the planet and uh I think I'm honored to [0:36] be your first arm wrestler. [0:38] >> Well, if I'm going to have an arm [0:39] wrestler, it has to be the GOAT. [0:41] >> Oh, highly debated. Highly debated, but [0:44] uh I'll take it. [0:45] >> You're in the conversation. [0:46] >> Yeah, I'm in the conversation. There's a [0:48] couple of us, I think. [0:49] >> Um John Bzen, I don't know. How How [0:52] close do you follow arm wrestling? [0:53] >> Very little. [0:54] >> Yeah, [0:54] >> I follow you. Well, I'm I'm most [0:56] fascinated by the fact that you can't [0:57] extend your arm. [laughter and gasps] [1:00] >> You don't Yeah. [1:01] >> His arms don't straighten out. [1:03] >> No, they don't. Unfortunately, that [1:05] didn't work. Yeah, [1:07] >> it didn't work when I was trying to [1:08] fight Thor either. It kind of limited [1:10] [laughter] the extension. [1:13] But [snorts] [1:13] >> when did that start happening? [gasps] [1:16] >> So, I was uh I got into club arm [1:20] wrestling. I arm wrestled with my when I [1:22] was a kid, but I got into club arm [1:24] wrestling around like 18. By the time I [1:27] was 20 or so, we have this champion [1:30] called Crazy George. Okay. He's like a [1:34] very old, very decorated champion. And [1:37] um he famously at the time for me, he [1:39] couldn't straighten his elbows. And I [1:42] was like, "Oh man, I can't wait till my [1:44] elbows don't straighten." [laughter] [1:46] Like a silly a silly wish, right? So it [1:49] started early like I think I was like [1:52] probably like in my late 20s and it just [1:56] the the range started to shrink [1:58] >> and but how what is that from? [2:00] >> It's just pressure mostly like just the [2:03] constant pressure on the elbow joint [2:05] causes you know osteopites potentially [2:08] like and it doesn't happen to all the [2:10] arm wrestlers. [2:11] >> Have you gotten an MRI on it? I've had [2:13] three surgeries [2:14] >> to straighten them out [2:15] >> to remove uh bone and scar tissue, [2:19] >> just chip bones and stuff. [2:20] >> Chip bones. Um Dr. Pollock, bless his [2:24] soul, at the uh Ottawa Hospital has [2:26] extended my career till this age, you [2:30] know. Uh yeah, it can that's probably [2:33] one of the worst chronic conditions that [2:35] arm wresters get is uh you know if the [2:38] if the bone growth gets bad enough it [2:40] can start to constrict your nerves or [2:42] blood flow and that's when it becomes a [2:44] problem. [2:44] >> Has that happened to you? [2:45] >> 100%. Yeah. [2:46] >> Yeah. I So I was what I was probably um [2:50] it was like 2013 so like 13 years ago is [2:54] when I had my first surgery and at that [2:56] point like trying to move forward trying [2:59] to move forward and Pull it out as far [3:00] as you can go. That's it. [3:02] >> That's it, buddy. That's it. [3:04] >> Wow. [3:04] >> The left is a little more than the [3:06] right. It looks like [3:07] >> probably a little bit. [3:08] >> Yeah. [3:09] >> Yeah. And I've had two surgeries on the [3:11] right, one on the left. But in my mind, [3:13] you know, it's a small price to pay, you [3:16] know, like I'm I'm as allin in arm [3:18] wrestling as you can possibly be. And [3:21] this is our cost of admission for some [3:24] of us, [3:25] >> you know. And [3:25] >> does does that happen to every arm [3:27] wrestler? [3:27] >> No. [3:28] >> No. [3:28] >> No. Well, there's lots of arm wrestlers. [3:30] It's it's a style thing. It's a it's a [3:33] genetic predisposition. It's I rolled [3:35] the dice wrong one day and had a bad [3:37] match. You know, I think what happens is [3:40] um it's really it's the pressure, it's [3:43] the bones over time if you're and then [3:46] it's if you're a dummy and you know, [3:49] keep on doing it when you should [3:50] probably rest. [3:51] >> That probably doesn't help. And I'm I'm [3:54] guilty, you know. So, [3:55] >> like most of the greats [3:58] Anyways, it it doesn't affect me in the [4:01] sport. I I actually I call it weaponized [4:04] arthritis. [laughter] [4:06] >> Okay. Because there are ways you can [4:09] kind of make your loss of range work for [4:12] you at times. [4:13] >> Really? [4:13] >> Yeah. Because there's like right, you [4:16] know, like if you're doing an arm bar, [4:17] okay, like your body resists with the [4:20] ligaments and the tendons. [4:22] >> So that starts higher for me. And I [4:24] think that there's a muscular strength [4:26] component that kicks in as well right at [4:28] the end of the range to protect you. So [4:30] I just have a higher uh you know arm [4:34] bar, you know. [4:35] >> Does it did it help you in arm bars as [4:36] well? [4:37] >> Oh god. No, it doesn't. A good jiu-jitsu [4:39] guy is still going to he's still going [4:41] to arm bar me. No, [4:42] >> it's also the bones would just snap. [4:44] >> Yeah, it's just going to snap higher. [4:46] >> Yeah, snap in bad places. [4:47] >> Yeah. [4:48] >> Do you ever try hanging from like a [4:50] chin-up bar to straighten it out? Um, [4:52] I've tried a lot of things. [4:54] >> I saw a video with you and uh Juju Mufu. [4:57] Yeah. [4:57] >> Is that how you say his name? [4:58] >> Yeah. Juji. [4:59] >> Juji. Jujim Mufu. [5:00] >> Yeah. Jujim Mufu. John Call. Yeah. He's [5:03] great. [5:03] >> He's great. He's he's such a character. [5:06] But they were rolling. They were trying [5:08] to like do some stuff with like these [5:10] big metal bars to roll out your muscles [5:12] and you were in [ __ ] agony. [5:15] >> I was like, that is crazy to watch. Like [5:17] you really can't straighten your arm. [5:19] And when they were trying, you were [5:20] screaming. Yeah. Yeah. It's terrible. Uh [5:24] I've kind of just accepted it. [5:26] >> Did you ever try to hang? [5:27] >> I've tried so many things, but I when I [5:32] was young, when I was 20, I was wishing [5:35] for the day that I could be like Crazy [5:37] George. [5:37] >> Wait, your arm doesn't straighten out. [5:39] >> It's It's interesting, you know, like [5:41] I'm not If I was like all about [5:44] straightening my arm, I could probably [5:46] still do it because the bone is actually [5:48] removed now. It's a sheath. There's like [5:50] a capsule that surrounds a joint. Um, [5:54] that is probably the root cause of it. [5:56] Um, [5:57] >> what is the capsule made out of? [5:58] >> I believe it's uh was it fascia? U just [6:02] connective structure. I think it [6:03] encapsulates the joint. [6:05] >> So everything is just sort of condensed [6:07] to hold the joint together. [6:08] >> I think so. [6:09] >> Wow. Yeah. It's kind of a unique study. [6:12] If you were like a physiologist or [6:14] you're studying human anatomy, you would [6:16] say, okay, like what is possible? [6:19] >> Yeah. You know, like do you know about [6:21] David Gogggins's knees? [6:23] >> I know David Gogggins. I don't know [6:24] about his knees. [6:26] [snorts] [6:26] >> His knees are so crazy. He's bone on [6:28] bone. Yeah. With both knees. And he went [6:30] to the doctor and the doctor said, "I [6:32] don't know how you can walk with these [6:34] knees. Forget about run thousands of [6:36] miles." [6:37] >> So his knees had the it's it's what is [6:40] it called, Jamie? It's like wolf [6:42] something. It's like there's a condition [6:44] when you're bone on bone for so long [6:46] where the bone actually spreads out. And [6:49] the doctor said, "I'd heard about this [6:51] in theory. I've never seen it on an [6:53] actual human being where his knee, the [6:56] bone had grown out so weird that his [6:59] knees were moving at like odd angles. So [7:01] they had to saw his tibia and move his [7:06] knee down. So he's still bone on bone, [7:08] but now he has a flat surface. And so [7:11] they cut it and then screwed it into [7:14] place and then he just rode a stationary [7:16] bike for like [ __ ] five months like a [7:18] maniac and then started running again. [7:20] Bone on bone. [7:22] >> Beautiful. Love it. [7:23] >> It's crazy. [7:24] >> He's wild, man. [7:25] >> See if you can see if you can find what [7:28] the condition is. [7:29] >> Says it's called Wolf's law. Biological [7:32] principle stating that bones adapt and [7:33] grow thicker and denser physical stress. [7:35] Is that [7:36] >> I think that's it. Yeah. And his grew [7:38] thicker and like kind of mushroomed out. [7:41] Yeah. [7:41] >> At the top of the knee because there's [7:43] nothing there. There's no And it's just [7:45] bang bang bang bang bang. So it just [7:48] kept growing out. And if you see see do [7:51] we have the images of the surgery? [7:53] >> It's [7:54] >> I know I sent it to you a long ass time. [7:55] >> Yeah. I mean it's showing a bunch of [7:57] pictures from when he was on here. [7:58] >> See that where he the fingerprints on [8:01] his shin. That's cuz he had so much [8:03] edema on his leg that he could squeeze [8:05] it and put his That's after the surgery. [8:07] >> Awesome. [8:08] >> Yeah. But look at the actual Yeah. Look [8:10] at that. The photo of what the knee [8:12] looks like. [8:12] >> That's not him. [8:13] >> That's not him. Where's [8:15] >> That's the That's like an image of what [8:16] it looked like. [8:17] >> Okay. So, they saw it and then they [8:20] screw it down in place. They saw it [8:23] slightly, you know, like a wedge off a [8:25] piece of wood. [8:26] >> You lower it, level it out, and then [8:28] screw it in place. [8:31] Yeah, for sure. I have something [8:32] similar. I've been bone on bone for [8:35] probably two decades. [8:36] >> Really? All the cartilage is gone. [8:38] >> Nothing. So when when I went and got my [8:41] surgery, uh doctor told me I have no [8:44] like there's there's nothing there but [8:46] bone. He said, Devin, maybe we can [8:49] extend maybe we can give you another [8:50] couple years on your on your career. [8:53] Maybe. [8:53] >> How long ago did he say this? [8:55] >> That was uh like 15 years ago. [8:58] [laughter] [8:59] I'm probably, no kidding, I probably [9:01] pulled off my best show ever 6 weeks [9:03] ago. So, [9:03] >> really? [9:04] >> How old are you? [9:05] >> I'm 51. [9:06] >> That's amazing. [9:07] >> And and and I have another shot at the [9:09] world title. I'm still number one in the [9:11] divisions. Uh so, you know, I'm I'm [9:14] lucky, but I think it's all it's the [9:18] doctors will say something, but it's [9:19] just not true. You can you can do [9:21] anything, you know. [9:22] >> Well, Gogggins is a perfect example of [9:24] that, and I guess so are you. It's like [9:26] the idea that you can't do something is [9:29] based on when most people quit. [9:32] >> Yeah. Uh pain is a interesting thing to [9:35] try and master, you know. Um it's it's [9:39] information and you have to be able to [9:40] live with it and work with it, but it's [9:43] it's it's good. It's good to have this [9:45] pain because it's kind of a guide on [9:47] where you need to get better. Um, you [9:50] know, the tendons and the tendonous [9:52] structures of the elbow are super super [9:55] taxed in arm wrestling and the process [9:58] of rehabilitation [9:59] and development of these structures [10:02] under great duress and trauma is is is [10:05] difficult and it it requires a lot of [10:08] time and monotony which a lot of people [10:10] aren't willing to put in. [10:11] >> I'm shocked at how much time grip [10:13] training takes. [10:15] >> Yeah, [10:15] >> it takes forever. I've I've been trying [10:18] to jack my my the those grip strength [10:21] things. The strongest I ever got to is [10:23] 164. And I'm like, I want to get to 200. [10:26] I feel like in my lifetime I can get to [10:28] 200. I can't get past 164. And the thing [10:31] is like I keep lifting weights with my [10:33] arms. I keep and I'm always tired. So [10:35] like every time I squeeze that thing, [10:37] I'm my hands are always sore. So I'm [10:40] like [ __ ] I got to take some time off [10:41] to see if I can get it stronger. And so [10:43] I'm doing all these wrist curls and I've [10:45] got the forearm finisher from Golden [10:48] Grip and I've got these big fat things [10:50] that I use for for cables to rotate [10:53] wrist and my hands got bigger. I'm [10:55] definitely stronger, but it's like I [10:58] don't know when to lay off of it and [11:00] when to put like how many days a week do [11:02] you do grip training? [11:04] >> What's your guess? [11:05] >> Every day. [11:06] >> Of course. [11:06] >> Every day. [11:07] >> Every day. [11:08] >> And is that the way to do it? Is that [11:10] the smart way to do it? cuz I know you [11:11] talked to a lot of those rock climber [11:13] guys and they have the craziest grip [11:15] strength. [11:15] >> Yeah. [11:17] One of the things that I'll just say [11:18] right away is a lot of people associate [11:21] grip with arm wrestling and 100%. It's [11:24] it's of massive importance. But the real [11:27] technical nuance of the sport is to try [11:30] and make the other person hold on to [11:32] you. [11:33] >> Right? So it's not necessar grip is more [11:37] like defense and added offense. But the [11:40] first step is to try and tax the other [11:42] person's grip. But [11:43] >> how do you do that? [11:44] >> Uh I think that everything there's we [11:47] are opening up like technical arm [11:49] wrestling. Okay. [11:50] >> Open it up. Let's go. [11:52] >> Okay. So I think in from my position the [11:56] opening move in arm wrestling is a [11:58] concept called rising. Like you know the [12:01] movie Over the Top. [12:02] >> Okay. This is the opening step of the [12:05] sport. And what it is is basically an [12:08] attempt to get a better grip. And if I [12:11] can the concept of making the other [12:13] opponent hold on to you, that's the [12:15] first step in technical supremacy. Okay? [12:18] If you can make the other person hold on [12:20] to you, if you can touch their fingers, [12:22] if you can get their fingers activated [12:25] and they're holding on to you, that's [12:28] they're they're less efficient. [12:30] >> Okay. [12:30] >> Yeah. So, it's about attacking weakness [12:33] more than it is about going where you're [12:34] strong. So, they're the most efficient [12:36] when it's palm to palm and everything's [12:38] gripped nice and tight and as soon as [12:39] you get like out here, [12:41] >> you want the pressure uh interaction to [12:45] be unfair to your advantage. Right. [12:47] >> Right. Like if if we were to arm [12:48] wrestle, you would want to put the [12:50] pressure in my fingertips like with like [12:52] almost like a hammer type motion. Right. [12:55] So, you're basically it's almost like a [12:56] curl. It's it's more complicated, but [12:59] that's like the first way to start to [13:00] think about it. Like people think about [13:02] arm wrestling, they think about pinning [13:04] each other. [13:05] >> And this is this is a very short-sighted [13:07] way to think about the sport. [13:09] >> You you think about pulling the match [13:10] close to you. This this concept of [13:12] rising is this upwards spinning slipping [13:17] motion where the end result is you have [13:19] a better grip and anything that they try [13:22] and do it's going to go through the [13:24] weakest system they have which is their [13:26] fingertips. [13:27] >> Yeah. So it is great to have an awesome [13:29] grip. really. [13:30] >> That's not everything. [13:31] >> I I so like proportionately in my [13:34] workload, if I was doing 21 sets, 21 or [13:38] I think I do 21 working sets typically [13:40] in my workouts. Um, one of them is [13:43] dedicated purely to grip [13:44] >> every day. [13:46] >> All day. [13:47] >> All day. So, you just do them throughout [13:48] the day. [13:50] >> I I lead a very simple life at the [13:52] moment. [13:53] >> So, structure it like how do you do it? [13:56] uh my structure right now and I think [13:59] that I'm probably one of the most [14:01] dedicated arm wrestlers in the world in [14:03] time in in terms of like what I do with [14:06] my life and how much energy I give the [14:08] sport is I I base it off of a week. [14:12] Okay? So I train with the club probably [14:15] twice a week. This changes, but [14:18] typically I'm going twice a week and [14:19] these are my hardest days. And I go in [14:21] there and I just completely redline and [14:24] max out in the sport. Okay. All the the [14:28] exactly what I got to do, I'm doing at [14:30] my highest highest capacity. I I have uh [14:34] my my family where all my friends are. [14:36] So my kid uh I mean he's a pro, too. [14:39] He's Yeah, he's competing this weekend. [14:41] >> That's crazy. [14:42] >> Yeah, it's crazy. So we like we we have [14:44] our own thing where we'll hit a hit a m [14:46] like we'll train together. Um but really [14:49] two hard sessions uh a week and then [14:52] whatever I fit in with my kids. Uh and [14:54] then uh the rest of the days are like [14:57] mindless. Not just the monotony level is [15:01] extreme. Uh my wife and I I'm retired, [15:04] right? So I have nothing but time. Uh [15:07] and I try to make I just try and put [15:10] everything into it. So, like it's all [15:13] day, man. It's all day. I wake up and [15:16] I'm training like all day. Uh, [15:19] >> so these machines, like this is some of [15:21] the [ __ ] that you have. Now, is this a [15:23] machine that's specifically designed for [15:25] arm wrestling? This did this exist or [15:27] did you go did you help create this? [15:30] >> Uh, this actually machine is handed down [15:32] for me from uh the best female arm [15:35] wrestler ever to exist, uh, Leanne [15:38] Drain, uh, Johnny Roberts. So, this is [15:40] like a very standard arm wrestling [15:42] equipment. It's basically an arm [15:43] wrestling table with a cable system. And [15:46] this is super old. Okay, this this table [15:48] you're looking at here, that's like 40y [15:51] old table and it's it's still working. [15:53] But yeah, you can buy pulley system on a [15:55] table. And that's really like this is [15:57] basically all I do. I work on off of a [15:59] table, different angles, different [16:01] pressures that all just replicate the [16:03] pressures in arm wrestling. So, you have [16:05] a a fat grip, looks like a PVC tube, and [16:08] then you're using that to work your [16:11] fingertips and roll your wrists and just [16:14] get to be really strong at that position [16:16] where you're turning someone's wrist [16:17] over. [16:18] >> We call that a multi- spinner. And [16:21] what's interesting about it is you see [16:22] it's a single point attachment. [16:24] >> So, it's a little bit like Swiss ball [16:26] for the wrist. So, it's it's [16:28] >> Swiss ball. What's that? [16:29] >> You know, like a Swiss ball like uh [16:30] people do like squats on them like the [16:32] ball in the gym. People do like [16:35] >> Oh, like a Bosu ball. Is that what it's [16:37] called? [16:37] >> Bosu is like a half, right? [16:38] >> Oh, is that what it is? Okay. [16:39] >> Swiss ball is like just the big round [16:41] balls that you Okay. [16:43] >> Yeah. And you see people [16:44] >> like a yoga ball, whatever they they [16:46] call them, [16:46] >> right? You ever jumped on a Swiss ball [16:48] and done squats or anything? [16:49] >> No. [16:50] >> Okay. Well, [16:51] >> I have the the half one that I do stuff [16:53] on. [16:53] >> Yeah. Swiss ball is way more unstable. [16:56] So, it's a similar concept where it's [16:58] it's very unstable through the wrist. [17:01] Uh, and there's different wraps, but [17:03] there's like a few base moves in arm [17:05] wrestling. Probably top rolling, [17:08] hooking, and pressing. [17:09] >> And you just do [ __ ] like this all day. [17:11] >> All day. And this is in my taper. Okay. [17:14] I know it's crazy. Uh, that's the [17:17] hardest part. [17:18] >> This is in your what room? [17:19] >> This is in my basement. [17:20] >> Oh, your base room. [17:21] >> Yeah. And what you see here, this was [17:23] actually my final workout um before I [17:27] pulled the Russian champion Vitalia [17:29] Leton like six, seven weeks ago. Um so [17:32] I've tapered. Normally all these [17:34] movements you see I'm doing like a 100 [17:37] repetitions. [17:38] So lots of blood flow. [17:40] >> And when you're doing 100 repetitions [17:42] like a what 50% max weight? Like what do [17:45] what do you weigh? [17:46] >> Nothing. [17:47] >> Nothing. Like 20 pounds something light. [17:49] >> Yeah. [17:50] >> Really? Is that the key? [17:53] >> I'm a b I experiment a lot. Okay. I've [17:56] done so many different systems, but this [17:58] is what I've come up with that I think [18:00] is best. So, I basically it all revolves [18:02] around these arm wrestling practice days [18:05] where um it's 100% this is what I want [18:08] my body to to to maximize about. But the [18:11] off days, the Tuesday, the Wednesday, [18:13] the it's all day just doing blood flow, [18:17] just increasing the amount of blood that [18:20] flows through the fascia, flows through [18:22] these chains in armresting motions. And [18:26] the 100 is all all I'm trying to do is [18:29] increase my circulation, especially [18:31] through my connective structures. And [18:33] movement is so essential. [18:36] Why that over why is that more [18:38] beneficial than like hard strength [18:40] training like small uh reps like low [18:43] numbers of reps but high weight? [18:44] >> So super debatable. Okay. And I've done [18:48] all of it. [18:49] >> Mhm. [18:50] >> Um what I've found is in my opinion you [18:54] only have so much energy. And this is [18:55] something we got to really weigh in [18:57] because if I could just smash, you know, [18:59] heavy stuff all the time and take steps [19:01] forward, I'd do it. But um I I've found [19:04] that you don't want to detract from the [19:07] thing that you're really really trying [19:08] to do. So anything that takes away from [19:10] your ability to do that, I think you [19:12] should look at cutting. The best part of [19:14] my training is on the table. So anything [19:16] that kind of messes with that, I don't [19:17] want to do it. I've done a lot of [19:19] systems where I'm lifting heavy, but the [19:21] thing is is they take energy, they take [19:23] resources, and what I really want to do [19:25] is prepare my body so I can do that [19:27] specific task as as good as possible. [19:31] the the high rep training heals me. It [19:35] heals me. A lot of people are like, "Oh, [19:36] that's a lot of work." And I'm like, [19:37] "It's really not." Um, it's just it's a [19:41] form of healing almost. [19:43] >> Yeah. [19:43] >> Interesting. [19:44] >> Yeah. [19:44] >> Just the blood flow and the consistent [19:47] movement and high repetitions. [19:50] >> Yes. Um, it's this is highly debated, [19:54] okay? But I'm proving it over and over [19:58] over the years. I I I started doing cuz [20:00] arm wrestling is a strength sport. No [20:02] doubt about it. Uh so right away people [20:05] think, oh, you know, heavy weight and [20:08] you know, high reps is dangerous because [20:10] you're going to become an endurance guy [20:12] and it's it's going to make you weaker. [20:14] Um but when you go low, your your work [20:19] volume is tremendous. Okay? If you're [20:21] doing light light weight all day long, I [20:24] mean, the amount of total weight that [20:25] you're lifting becomes astronomical. And [20:28] I think that that adaptation over long [20:31] periods is wonderful. And you can't get [20:34] the blood flow through the connective [20:36] structures without movement. So this is [20:39] this is really why I do it. The healing [20:41] aspect, the overall metabolic [20:44] conditioning that you get. Um yeah, and [20:47] and the taper is a big part of it as [20:50] well, you know. Uh but yeah, I'm doing [20:53] all my heavy lifting specifically in the [20:56] sport. like I'm not I'm not doing my [20:58] heavy lifting at this time in my career. [21:01] >> Uh and also Joel, I'm 51 and I'm plagued [21:04] with injuries. So I have to be very [21:06] specific. I have to be very precise. Uh [21:09] yeah, this is the best formula I've come [21:10] up with. [21:11] >> And when you were younger, did you [21:13] approach it differently? [21:14] >> I have made so many mistakes. [21:15] >> What was the initial approach? Just lift [21:17] as heavy as you can. [snorts] [21:19] >> Yeah, lift as heavy as I can. [21:21] >> Well, you're a giant dude already, [21:22] right? So you already naturally have [21:24] like big bones, big genetics. So did you [21:27] powerlift? Like what did you what did [21:29] you do initially? [21:30] >> I was a a judo guy. I was a basketball [21:34] guy. Um I was a military guy. So I did a [21:39] lot of different stuff. I was very cross [21:40] trained. I even I even did um Iron Man [21:43] for a bit. Uh but [21:45] >> that's got to be so hard for you. [21:47] >> Yeah. [21:47] >> All that weight. [21:49] >> H Yeah. I so I would when I say iron man [21:52] apologies uh not traditional military [21:54] Iron Man. So [21:55] >> what's the difference? [21:57] >> Military iron man you're doing it with a [21:58] backpack you're portaging a canoe you're [22:01] paddling you're running with a backpack. [22:03] So that race you know a winning time is [22:07] you know probably anything under 6 hours [22:09] like 5 and 12 to 6 hours. So it's long [22:11] duration but it's slightly heavier. So [22:14] I'm still big even for that. like most [22:18] champions, most guys who win the Iron [22:19] Man are, you know, average size or even [22:22] smaller, but uh yeah, the side I mean [22:25] I'm a bigger person, [laughter] [22:28] but yeah, I I did a lot of different [22:29] sports, but I've I've always loved arm [22:31] wrestling. It's always been the one I've [22:33] come back to. It's you know, what is it [22:36] about it? [22:37] >> I I think that there's a lot of things [22:39] about it. You know, for me personally, [22:41] it was my first sport. Like I started [22:43] arm wrestling with my grandmother when I [22:44] was like four years old. with your [22:46] grandmother? [22:47] >> Yeah. Yeah. Really? [22:48] >> Never underestimate the power of a [22:50] grandmother. [snorts] [22:51] Yeah. [laughter] [22:52] >> Yeah. Yeah. Um I was a rowdy little kid [22:56] and you know in a in a with a German [22:58] mother who didn't let me do too much [23:00] crazy stuff around the house and my [23:02] grandmother used to come over and it was [23:05] a reward system. She'd tell me to do [23:07] chores and uh the result was uh I got to [23:10] arm wrestle with her. [laughter] [23:13] >> Yeah. I never beat her. That's crazy. [23:15] >> I never beat her. Uh it's it's funny. Um [23:20] her name was Leavonne. [23:22] Um and the current super heavyweight [23:25] world champion is Leavonne. So I've [23:28] never beat either of them. [laughter] [23:29] Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit trippy. Uh but [23:33] yeah, so I started I started young. Um I [23:36] I love arm wrestling because it's uh [23:39] it's a very safe fight. Okay. Okay. Like [23:42] I I I I love fighting. Everything in my [23:45] life has been about fighting. And um arm [23:48] wrestling is one of those fight sports [23:50] that has super low cost. Like we don't [23:52] punch each other in the head. Uh I'll be [23:54] able to walk. Uh nothing on my spine. Uh [23:58] my elbows don't straighten, you know? So [24:00] it's low cost. You can do it your whole [24:03] life. Like we have we've had world [24:05] champions in the open division who are [24:08] almost 70. [24:09] >> What? [24:09] >> Yeah. [24:10] >> What? [24:11] >> Yeah. That's cool, right? [24:12] >> That's incredible. [24:13] >> I love it. [24:13] >> How's that possible? [24:14] >> Yeah, it the hand is weird. Like this [24:17] thing here is designed for volume and it [24:22] just slowly builds. You know, the hand [24:24] is the structure is has so much [24:27] connective tissues in it, so much [24:29] tendon, and that's just it takes so long [24:32] to build. You know, age is an advantage [24:35] in a lot of ways because you just have [24:37] more time to get further in arm [24:39] wrestling. Yeah. I'm 51. I'm telling [24:41] you, I I probably competed at the [24:43] highest level and I I believe I can [24:46] still go further. Uh it's non-typical, [24:49] you know. It's non-typical. And I the [24:51] the thing that I love most about it the [24:54] very most is is the family and the [24:56] bonds. Uh arrest and clubs are special [24:59] places. Uh it's very bluecollar. [25:03] Open doors, man. There's there's not a [25:05] lot of money associated with the sport [25:07] in terms of membership fees. we we are [25:09] wrestling in each other's garages and [25:11] houses and um and it it breeds a very [25:14] tight family like I consider the club [25:17] that I train with like they're my family [25:19] like so um that's my I mean that's what [25:22] sport's all about you know [25:24] >> Mhm. [25:24] >> Yeah. Yeah. And arm wrestling is very [25:26] conducive to that. [25:27] >> So when you say it's non-typical that [25:29] you could compete at this level this at [25:31] this age what what how old are like most [25:35] of the top guys? I'd say that you hit [25:38] your probably peak typically when you [25:41] are low 30s. So very standard, you know. [25:45] Oh, that's my buddy Pork Chop. Oh, [25:47] there's Crazy George. This is the guy. [25:48] Okay, so [snorts] this guy, [25:50] >> which one's Crazy George? [25:51] >> The dude who's down there. Uh, not the [25:53] guy in the green shirt. So these are [25:55] both my good buddies. [25:55] >> And this is the guy who can't straighten [25:56] his arms out. [25:57] >> Uh, he can't. No, he's super locked up. [25:59] Okay, but so he's doing this move called [26:02] a king's move or outside top roll. And [26:05] you see Pork Chop's wrist is bent back. [26:07] I I love Porky. I train with Porky twice [26:10] a week. Um, but yeah, Crazy George. And [26:14] Crazy George is like 160 lbs. And Pork [26:17] Yeah. And Porky's like 230 completely [26:20] tremendously jacked and strong. [26:22] >> Yeah. And Pork Chop is like a [26:24] professional arm wrestler pulling at [26:25] East versus West. Okay. That's our [26:27] highest league. And Crazy George is [26:31] [laughter] Yeah, [26:32] >> he's incredible. [26:33] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's completely incredible. [26:34] Um, yeah, there's another guy from our [26:38] club, Matt Smith, against Crazy George. [26:40] I think Matt actually may have beaten [26:41] him here. This is actually the time [26:43] period of Crazy George's downfall. Okay, [26:46] so [26:46] >> how old is Crazy George in this film? [26:48] >> He'd probably be late 60s here. Okay. [26:51] >> Wow. [26:51] >> Yeah. He's an absolute legend to me in [26:54] the sport. Like technically, so this [26:56] guy, he spent the first like 20 years in [26:59] the sport. Two up, two down. Okay. Go to [27:02] tournament, double elimination. And he's [27:03] and that's the Canadian champ. These [27:05] guys are all champions that you see him [27:06] arm wrestling with. And he invented [27:10] basically he didn't invent it, but there [27:12] were very few people doing this style of [27:14] arm wrestling. Okay, we call it an [27:17] outside top roll or a kings move. And he [27:20] really figured it out. And um [27:24] very difficult, very difficult to deal [27:26] with. [27:27] >> And what is he doing? He's dropping down [27:30] and lowering his body weight. [27:33] >> Yeah. So, there's many kind of main [27:36] strengths in arm wrestling. Okay. [27:39] There's uh rising strength, there's [27:42] pronational strength, there's cupping [27:45] strength, and this pronational, you see [27:48] this like this is like my favorite [27:49] example. [27:50] >> Jesus Christ. Look at that thing. That's [27:51] so weird. Show that. Show that. Look at [27:54] that. Who the [ __ ] has that muscle [27:56] armrest? muscle. So weird, right? So [27:58] that turn [27:59] >> I don't even think I have that. Where is [28:00] that? [28:01] >> Yeah, it's right there. [28:02] >> That's nuts. [28:03] >> Right. [28:04] >> That's mine is non-existent. [28:05] >> I was going to interrupt. I saw it on [28:06] this thumbnail and I was going to say, [28:08] what is that? [laughter] [28:09] >> Yeah, [28:10] >> I couldn't figure it out. [28:11] >> [ __ ] crazy. [28:12] >> It's one of my dreams to have [28:14] bodybuilders when they're, you know, [28:16] IFBB just to be doing pronator poses one [28:19] day. One day. It's the [28:21] >> even have that. [28:22] >> You got to first turn turn [28:23] [clears throat] your thumb down [28:24] >> like that. [28:25] >> Yeah. And [28:26] Pop your wrist back. There it is. See [28:28] it? There is There you go. [28:30] >> This little [ __ ] ass [ __ ] little [28:34] [ __ ] ass muscle. [28:36] >> God, that's hilar. That's gigantic. [28:38] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like different [28:40] styles in arm wrestling, okay? Like they [28:43] have different roots. Okay. And the [28:46] king's move top rolling in general, [28:49] outside top rolling is super dependent [28:52] on pronation. [28:53] >> So, it's all this [28:54] >> turn twisting. Yeah. [28:56] >> Twisting. Yeah. It's it's it's [28:58] weaponized, right? We get really strong [29:01] to and and there's a relationship [29:04] between all the angles in the hand. The [29:05] hand is very complex, right? All sorts [29:07] of stuff it can do. And the main two [29:11] drivers, [29:12] cupping, we call it flexion and [29:15] pronation. And these two interact. So [29:18] when one pronates, it attacks the other [29:20] one's cup. [29:22] >> So there's a relationship between them. [29:24] So Crazy George is like the master of [29:30] pronational styles. King's move is [29:32] pronation styles. I over the course of [29:35] my career change techniques, change [29:37] techniques. Probably my best technique [29:40] is a open top roll or a king's move now. [29:43] Yeah. And and I learned a lot. It's like [29:45] the guy that one of my first coaches, [29:47] guy called Troy Eaton. Um he he could [29:51] never beat George. He couldn't be [29:54] George. We tried, we tried, we tried for [29:56] years to figure him out. So, and that [29:58] was back when I was like 20, right? So, [30:00] I've been I've been studying this style [30:02] for 30 years. Uh, and yeah, it's it's a [30:07] combination of locks and giveaways and [30:10] balancing. Arm wrestling things happen [30:12] really quickly, very, very quickly. But [30:14] it's a balancing act of of all these [30:16] different strengths. So, what is it [30:18] about you that's able to keep competing [30:21] at a very high level into your 50s? [30:23] [sighs] [30:23] >> I think uh [30:24] >> is it this approach where you're just [30:26] doing all these reps all day long? Do [30:28] you think that's a big part of it? [30:29] >> Huge, [30:30] >> huge, [30:31] >> huge part of it [30:32] >> because you're constantly forcing your [30:34] muscles to work, you're constantly [30:35] getting blood flow, and you're not [30:36] losing any strength. [30:38] >> Yeah. [30:38] >> As you get older, [30:39] >> it's a huge part of it. Yeah. the the my [30:41] my work volume probably exceeds [30:45] most people in in the sport with that. [30:48] So, metabolically and from a health [30:50] perspective, it keeps my tendons and [30:52] ligaments really functional. Um, and you [30:55] know, I'm I'm just I'm just a very [30:56] simple and obsessed person and I just I [30:59] I arm wrestle at every opportunity. [31:01] >> Don't you also have some very freaky [31:03] genetics? Like, didn't Ryan [31:05] >> Yeah. [31:05] >> Yeah. What is his last name? [31:07] >> Rosner. He's This guy is the best. very [31:10] interesting guy, [31:10] >> smartest person I know, [31:11] >> geneticist. And uh he was explaining to [31:14] me how unusual your genes are. [31:18] >> We all have unusual genes. [31:20] >> Yeah, but you have like really unusual [31:22] genes. [31:23] >> Uh well, there that's that topic is so [31:27] big, you know, the genetic uh piece. I [31:30] think that what a massive piece going [31:33] forward for our species. You know, um [31:36] the mastery of genetics. Uh it's right [31:40] at the top, I think, of our highest [31:42] priorities. You know, [31:43] >> there was a thing that they were talking [31:45] about last night in the green room. See [31:46] if you could find this. They think they [31:48] might have figured out a way to end down [31:51] syndrome. [31:53] They think they might have figured out a [31:54] way with genetic engineering with [31:57] crisper or whatever they're using, [31:58] whatever modalities they're using to end [32:00] down syndrome. [32:01] >> Sure. [32:02] >> Which is wild. [32:03] >> I think that there's so many answers [32:05] with genetics, you know, from I [32:08] personally believe that uh and you know, [32:09] this is a big topic with freedom and [32:11] everything like that, but I I really [32:14] believe that when you're born, you [32:16] should be swabbed and it should [32:17] accompany your health, you know, card or [32:19] whatever. And just as a information. You [32:23] know, there's so much [32:24] >> Well, it probably will be in the future [32:25] as these all these techniques and all [32:28] this new stuff comes out. Crisper takes [32:30] a bold leap toward silencing Down [32:32] syndrome's extra chromosome. Wow. So, [32:35] [clears throat] scientists have taken an [32:36] important step towards a gene therapy [32:38] that could one day turn off the genetic [32:40] material that causes Down syndrome. Down [32:42] syndrome is a genetic condition caused [32:44] by an extra chromosome 21 and [32:47] consequently hundreds of triplicate [32:49] genes that lead to developmental and [32:51] neurological issues. According to [32:53] Washington-based National Down Syndrome [32:55] Society, one in every 640 babies in the [32:59] United States is born with Down [33:00] syndrome. That makes it the most common [33:01] chromosomal condition. [33:04] So there So what is it doing here? Um [33:07] okay. So Beth Israel Deaconist Medical [33:10] Center and Harvard Medical School found [33:12] a way to silence much of the extra [33:15] chromosomes activity in the cell at [33:16] once. Details of the research are [33:19] published in a paper in the journal [33:20] Proceedings of the National Academy of [33:22] Sciences. Wow. So what is weird about [33:25] your genes though? Ryan told me, but I [33:27] don't remember. He was He goes, "You got [33:28] to talk to him about his jeans." [33:29] [laughter] [33:30] Well, Ryan's actually got to talk to. I [33:32] mean, I'm a high school educated guy and [33:33] I I've been down to Austin several times [33:37] to hang out with Ryan. I I absorb [33:38] everything I can from this guy. But, um [33:42] I think that my genetics uh I think I'm [33:46] predisposed to um endurance actually. [33:50] >> Endurance. [33:50] >> I think so. Well, I think if you take an [33:52] overall look at my genetics, I think I [33:55] have a lot of, you know, favorable [33:57] mutations that are, you know, predispose [34:00] me to to good. But it's weird. I don't [34:03] know, man. Listen, the genetic side of [34:05] things, I I I'll sound silly if I try [34:07] and talk too much about it. I'll just [34:10] tell you that there are there are [34:12] favorable genetics for sure. you know, [34:14] there's favorable mutations and it's [34:17] amazing, you know, if you could capture [34:21] all of them from everybody and [34:24] >> you know, put it together and you never [34:26] know what [34:27] >> you'd get. Brian Shaw, [34:28] >> we've we've scanned Brian. [34:30] >> Yeah, [34:31] >> that's the thing. So, this this this [34:32] project that Ryan is doing and I I like [34:34] to help him out a little bit. Uh we've [34:38] been um we've been looking at elite [34:41] performers and with the with the goal to [34:44] find favorable mutations. And yeah, we [34:47] scanned Brian. [laughter] [34:50] >> He's in the Bible. [34:51] >> That guy's in the Bible. He's like, you [34:54] know, David and Goliath, that's they're [34:56] real people out there like that. [34:57] >> Yeah. Yeah. Brian. [34:58] >> So his genetics are one out of every 500 [35:02] million people. Isn't it something crazy [35:04] along those lines? [35:06] >> Yeah. He's he's completely a um an he's [35:10] he's right at the peak of human [35:12] performance right from a genetic [35:14] standpoint. [35:14] >> Just freakish freakish [35:16] >> bone density. Yeah. Everything. [35:18] >> Everything. And it's not just his bone [35:19] density, the dude's mindset. Like [35:22] there's many pieces of Brian's genetics [35:24] that that make him a champion. Um but [35:27] yeah, he has some stuff in him that that [35:30] Ryan's never seen. Yeah. No, nobody no. [35:33] He has, and [snorts] I probably [35:35] shouldn't be speaking about other [35:36] people's medical stuff, but I love Brian [35:38] and he he can sue me if he wants. Uh, [35:41] nobody has his uh growth hormone. He has [35:44] a different type of growth hormone. [35:46] >> What do you mean? [35:47] >> I don't think it's the same. [35:48] >> What? [35:49] >> I don't think he has a We're opening [35:51] something so cool cuz you talked about [35:53] the the Down syndrome and there's some [35:55] very interesting stuff with that. But uh [35:58] um yeah, Brian, I don't believe that uh [36:01] Brian's growth hormone is the same as [36:03] yours and mine. [36:04] >> What does that mean? [36:05] >> It might be molecularly different or it [36:08] might have uh You're going to have to [36:10] talk to Ryan, [36:11] >> but his growth hormone is different. [36:13] Like different kind of growth hormone. [36:15] >> He has a mutation in his growth hormone. [36:18] >> Well, that makes sense. [36:19] >> Yeah, it does. [36:19] >> I mean, he's almost 7 feet tall and he's [36:21] 400 lb. [36:22] >> Yeah. And and he and he doesn't stop. He [36:25] doesn't stop. But it's weird the the [36:27] whole like Down syndrome thing, they can [36:29] do stop codes like some genes like some [36:31] mutations that you get from what I [36:33] understand there's like a stop code on a [36:35] gene. So whatever your gene is uh when [36:37] the I guess M lands on it and starts to [36:41] do its thing like there can be a stop [36:43] code or something that just stops that [36:45] gene from expressing. And I think that [36:48] that's likely what they they do with [36:49] that. They'd somehow insert a stop code. [36:52] But I mean there's people out there who [36:55] have like world records like for things [36:57] like deadlift [36:59] that don't have fast twitch muscle [37:02] according to their genetics. So it's [37:04] really weird. [37:05] >> What do you mean they don't have fast [37:06] twitch? [37:06] >> Like they have a stop code on their fast [37:09] twitch genetics [37:10] >> just naturally. [37:11] >> Doesn't make any sense at all. [37:12] >> They're just born weird. [37:13] >> Born super weird. Yet they're capable of [37:15] beating world records on the deadlift. [37:18] So [snorts] [37:18] >> wouldn't you think that deadlift is a [37:20] fast twitch thing? [37:21] >> Yeah. So I don't understand. [37:23] >> I don't know either. Um it's an amazing [37:26] field. Genetics is an amazing field. [37:28] >> Is that a lack of understanding of what [37:30] fast twitch do or is it they can [37:33] compensate with the other muscles in [37:35] some way? [37:36] >> I don't think it's other muscles cuz I [37:38] think that it would probably apply to [37:40] all the musculature. So there's [37:42] something that we don't understand. [37:44] There's something weird going on. Uh [37:46] Eddie, you can sue me. Eddie Hall, I [37:49] love you. I love you. [37:51] Uh Eddie's got a stop code [37:54] >> in his jeans [37:55] >> on fast switch muscle. Makes no sense. [37:57] >> Well, that doesn't make any sense. [37:58] [clears throat] He moves so fast. [38:00] >> I know. [38:00] >> And he hits so [ __ ] hard. That's [38:02] crazy. [38:02] >> It's crazy. [38:04] >> How is that possible? I've seen that guy [38:05] hit MITs and you're like, Jesus Christ. [38:08] >> Is this what the the Hercules mean? Not [38:10] that something else. Okay. [38:12] >> Oh, that's myostatin. That's myostatin [38:14] inhibitors. [38:15] >> Yeah. [38:15] >> So, it regulates the production of [38:17] myostatin, a protein that stops muscles [38:18] from growing too large. So with [38:20] myostatin inhibitors, they've done that [38:22] with I'm sure you've seen those [38:24] whippetss that have it. So whippets are [38:27] a weird dog. It's a very skinny fast [38:29] dog. And some whippetss are born with [38:32] this genetic mutation. That's a [38:34] myostatin inhibitor. And they look like [38:36] the Hulk. It's the cra Show show an [38:38] image of that please. It is the craziest [38:41] [laughter] that doesn't look like a real [38:42] dog. [38:43] >> That doesn't look like a real dog. [38:45] That's a crazy bodybuilder dog. Because [38:48] if you see a regular whippet, show me a [38:50] regular whippet now, please. [38:52] >> Yeah, [38:52] >> regular whippets. That's a Yeah, look at [38:55] a regular whippet. Like a real fast like [38:57] almost like a greyhound looking dog. And [39:00] then you see the ones with the mystatin [39:01] inhibitor gene and you're like, what the [39:04] hell is going on? They look like like [39:07] the most freakish bodybuilder of all [39:09] time, but in a dog form. [39:11] >> And some humans have that. [39:12] >> Belgian blues. Also, the Belgian uh [39:14] >> the cows. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. [39:16] >> And they have it too. [39:17] >> Yeah. [39:17] >> So they offer already genetic genetic [39:20] therapy that gives you folstatin. [39:24] So there's a balance between folstatin [39:27] and myostatin. From what I understand [39:29] like the key that turns on the cell for [39:32] for growth [39:34] >> is um is folstatin. [39:37] And myostatin tells the cell to stop [39:40] growing. You're big enough. [39:41] >> Right. [39:42] >> Important. Very important. And so if you [39:45] don't have myostatin, all that that [39:48] turnkey gets is folstatin. So the only [39:51] thing signal that you're ever getting [39:53] with a myostatin deficiency is full [39:54] statin. And so yeah, so they offer a [39:57] genetic therapy that increases your full [40:00] statin. [40:00] >> They offer it to who? [40:05] >> Anybody? Anybody ready to get [40:07] >> anybody with enough money with [40:10] >> Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a bunch of [40:11] genetic therapies that they've already [40:13] created. Folstatin is one of them. [40:15] >> And so that would be for powerliffters [40:17] or football players or someone who just [40:18] wanted to get [ __ ] huge. [40:20] >> I think initially it was created for [40:22] longevity because as you age your [40:26] folstatin drops and that's why people [40:28] get smaller, they shrink as they get [40:30] older, right? [40:31] >> And folstatin just helps you maintain [40:34] muscle mass. [40:35] >> Yes. So, it's it's I think it's mostly [40:38] um promoted as a anti-aging remedy, but [40:41] absolutely like you want to get your [40:43] performance up. Yeah. Increase it. [40:45] >> They're doing so many wild things now. [40:47] They've got this new therapy now for [40:50] people with disc degeneration. I'm sure [40:51] you have it. I have it. A lot of people [40:53] have it. Especially anybody who does [40:55] jiu-jitsu has it. [40:56] >> Your your discs just get worn out from [40:58] getting cranked on and like heavy [41:01] lifters always have it. Lower back [41:03] issues. your the disc is the soft [41:06] cushion in between the spinal columns [41:08] and those those big bones push down that [41:11] disc and over time and all that [41:13] compression it squashes. But now they've [41:15] got stuff that they can inject into the [41:17] disc that inflates the discs. [41:19] >> Yeah. [41:20] >> And so all these people that have been [41:21] getting artificial discs and fusions and [41:24] all the problems that come with that [41:26] because there's massive problems, [41:28] they're going to be able to eliminate [41:29] that which is amazing. [41:32] >> Super cool. Oh, so super cool. And I [41:34] tell everybody, if you could avoid back [41:35] surgery, please avoid back surgery. [41:37] Don't [ __ ] do it. There's a lot of [41:39] different way like I always tell [41:40] everybody and I'll tell everybody again. [41:42] Louis Simmons, his invention, that that [41:45] invention, the reverse hyper. [41:47] >> Yeah. [41:48] >> [ __ ] incredible. One of the the [41:49] greatest invention ever for people with [41:51] lower back problems. I have one here in [41:53] the studio. I have one at my house. I [41:56] [ __ ] swear by that machine. It's so [41:58] good. It decompresses the spine on the [42:01] on the del and on the uplift when you're [42:03] lifting up the weights, it it [42:05] strengthens the muscles out. It's like a [42:07] perfect exercise for lower back issues. [42:09] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's wild when we look at [42:12] the future uh in terms of performance [42:15] and how far the age is being pushed. [42:18] like we see crazy George, but uh I think [42:22] I I I'm optimistic that all the ages are [42:24] just going to be pushed and pushed until [42:27] >> you're probably maybe not going to be a [42:29] champion until you're 60. [42:30] >> That's crazy, [42:31] >> right? [42:32] >> That's crazy. Well, that's for arm [42:34] wrestling. [42:34] >> Well, I wonder what's going to happen [42:35] with reg Well, the thing is with regular [42:37] sports, the stuff that's pushing this [42:39] stuff is performance-enhancing drugs. [42:42] you know, peptides, stem cells, not [42:44] really that's not really performance [42:46] sensing drug, but for injuries, but [42:48] testosterone, all the all these [42:50] different steroids, all these different [42:52] things. The thing about like combat [42:55] sports in particular is that you can't [42:57] use those things. They're not allowed. [42:59] But when you can use them, you see these [43:02] older athletes that have the mind of an [43:04] older athlete, but the body that works [43:05] like a young guy, [43:06] >> right? [43:07] >> My favorite example of that is Vtor [43:08] Belffort when he was in his prime. TRT [43:11] Belffor. [43:12] >> Yeah. [43:12] >> TRT Vtor was the scariest [ __ ] guy [43:15] ever. [43:15] >> Yeah. [43:16] >> Because he was jacked up with [43:18] testosterone, but he was also 37 years [43:20] old with a lifetime of combat sport [43:22] experience, a lifetime of intelligence, [43:24] but hadn't lost any speed, hadn't lost [43:26] any strength, and in fact had like [43:27] superhuman speed and strength [43:29] >> because he was [43:31] >> juicy. Super juicy. But yeah, [43:34] >> but it makes you think like, man, what [43:36] would the sport look like if that was [43:39] open to everybody, [43:40] >> right? Yeah. [43:42] >> Interesting. [43:43] >> It is interesting because there's a lot [43:45] of guys that want to keep competing, but [43:47] their body just doesn't respond the way [43:49] it used to to training because they're [43:51] 37 or 38 or 39 or [43:53] >> Yeah. [43:54] >> But if you could get them on the sauce. [43:56] >> Yeah. Right. Where's the limit? [43:58] >> Yeah. [43:58] >> Right. [43:59] >> And why not let them? [44:01] >> Absolutely. Why not? You know, I I I'm a [44:04] big believer in tested sport. You know, [44:06] I think that that's wonderful. Uh and I [44:09] think that that'll never go away and I [44:11] think it's it's important, but I I'm [44:13] also a believer in open up the gates and [44:15] let everybody play. [44:16] >> Well, that's why I really love this [44:17] whole idea of doing the enhanced games. [44:20] It didn't really pan out the way [44:22] everybody hoped. Nobody really won any [44:24] records other than the one guy in the [44:25] swimming, but he wore a prohibited suit [44:27] that lets you swim quicker apparently. I [44:29] don't understand swimming. [44:30] >> Yeah. But I was hoping like you're going [44:33] to see some freakish superhuman [44:35] performances, but I feel like if that's [44:37] going to happen, that's going to take [44:39] years. I don't think you would get the [44:41] kind of gains that these people are [44:43] hoping to get to achieve like world [44:44] record super freak human performance [44:47] unless you're doing that stuff for a [44:49] long like you know as well as anybody [44:51] that training takes forever. Takes to [44:54] build strength, to build speed, to build [44:56] endurance takes a long ass time. You [44:58] think you're going to get strength in [44:59] three months. Like you get a little [45:01] stronger [45:02] >> for sure. [45:02] >> But you're not going to get freakish [45:04] strength for [ __ ] years. It takes [45:07] years. [45:08] >> Years. Decades. [45:10] >> Like Juju Mufu. Like how long has that [45:11] guy been lifting weights? That guy's a [45:13] [ __ ] freak. [45:14] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can't build this [45:16] stuff overnight. [45:16] >> And I bet he would melt a piss cup. [45:20] >> Listen, I I think [45:21] >> Not a chance. [45:23] >> Juji. Juji, look at so many. Look at [45:24] myself included. You know, I I care [45:27] about performance. This is this is what [45:30] what I care about. And so many people [45:32] fall into the same boat. [45:33] >> Look at that guy. Damn. Chance in hell [45:34] that dude's natural. [45:35] >> You know, I'll tell you, uh Juji is [45:37] probably [45:38] >> That's amazing though that he can do [45:39] that. That kind of flexibility with that [45:41] kind of mass is Look at that while [45:44] overhead pressing a full side squat or [45:47] side split. That's nuts on chairs. [45:50] JeanClaude Vanam style. [45:52] >> Juji started out tricking. [45:54] >> Okay. What does that mean? [45:55] >> Uh, like it's a form [45:57] >> because that sounds like, [45:58] >> you know what I'm saying? [45:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] So, so he [46:01] actually started off [46:02] >> Sounds like he's picking up guys. [46:03] >> Yeah. No, no, Juji is super cool. Uh, [46:06] it's like flipping. [46:08] >> Oh, he was on America's Got Talent. [46:09] >> Yeah. [46:10] >> Oh, wow. [46:10] >> It's like a form of uh like acrobatics [46:14] or gymnastics, [46:15] >> right? [46:16] >> Yeah. [46:16] >> Well, I've seen him do acrobatic stuff [46:18] and it's really nuts, [46:19] >> right? like his physical ability like it [46:23] defies what you expect from a guy with [46:24] that kind of mass, [46:25] >> right? Yeah. So, he's a com combined [46:29] like almost gymnast and bodybuilder [46:32] >> and he's probably better now than ever [46:35] and he's I mean I think Juji's in his [46:37] 40s. [46:38] >> Wow. [46:38] >> Yeah. And uh yeah, he's massive and [46:41] healthy and, you know, absolutely [46:43] kicking ass. Probably the most positive [46:46] human being that I've met. Well, he [46:48] seems super positive in his YouTube [46:50] videos and we have snorted his [ __ ] [46:52] smelling socks like all [46:54] >> he's got the best stuff. He does. [46:55] >> We've snorted his stuff about a hundred [46:57] times on this show. [laughter] [46:59] >> Yeah. Actually, [47:00] >> look at him doing flips. I mean, that's [47:02] crazy that a guy with that kind of mass [47:04] can move like that. [47:06] >> Juji is actually the inspiration for [47:10] this modern uh this this latest way that [47:13] I'm training. It was actually [47:14] >> really [47:15] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Juji came up to my [47:17] place uh probably about a year and a [47:18] half ago and we were just redlinining in [47:22] our two-hand work. Okay. And it was so [47:25] good. [47:25] >> Two hand work. [47:26] >> Yeah. So, okay. So, I would be [47:28] considered like the senior guy in in my [47:31] club. Okay. So, and we have this kind of [47:33] rule in the in the club just to make [47:35] things work properly. Senior holds, [47:38] junior works. Okay. So, so the senior is [47:42] kind of staying with you, floating with [47:44] you, and the junior is able to control [47:47] their intensity. So, the guy who would [47:50] normally win the match doesn't win. [47:52] >> You're just holding him in place. Okay. [47:54] Right. Like defense work in jiu-jitsu. [47:56] >> Exactly. Okay. But just to help out the [48:00] that guy typically um will do two arm [48:03] work. [48:04] >> Okay. to kind of flip the script for him [48:06] so somebody can hold like me with two [48:09] arms and kind of let me get to red line. [48:12] >> Yeah. So Juji and I were doing that like [48:15] a year and a half ago and it was so good [48:17] and it was so much fun. I was like what [48:19] am I doing you know having anything kind [48:23] of cut into this and that's when I [48:25] stopped doing heavy lifting. It was it [48:28] was as a result of training with Juji. [48:30] So this two arm work of just holding and [48:33] just work on that you feel is more [48:35] important than all the lifting and all [48:36] the other stuff. Yeah, because it's [48:37] sport specific. [48:38] >> Exactly. [48:40] >> And does he arm wrestle? [48:41] >> He does a little bit. Juju does [48:43] everything. [48:43] >> But why did you working with him make [48:46] you train differently? [48:48] >> Juji is a special guy. Um I think that [48:51] just you don't have to be the best in [48:54] your field. If you have a certain energy [48:55] or certain thing with you, Juji is a [48:59] wonderful, creative, hardworking guy and [49:02] when you get a chance to train with him, [49:04] it doesn't matter that his skill level, [49:06] it's just his level of energy is so good [49:08] >> that when we work together, it it helps [49:11] me. Um, I don't know. He I don't know [49:13] how it happened, but he unlocked this [49:16] understanding of the priority of that [49:18] training for me. I've always done it, [49:20] but never [49:21] >> How did he unlock it? I'm not not [49:23] getting it. [49:24] >> I think that our training session uh I [49:27] Okay, so what happened was Juji came [49:29] over and I normally on days that I do [49:33] table work, I do not hit the gym, okay? [49:38] Because I don't want anything to kind of [49:39] impact my my my table work. And because [49:43] I only had a day with Juji, I wanted to [49:45] show him how I was training. And at the [49:48] time, I was training very heavy. I was [49:50] training very heavy. So we did this [49:51] circuit. I showed him all my latest [49:53] exercises that I was prioritizing and [49:55] then we went to the club that night and [49:57] we had this awesome two- arm work, but I [49:59] felt as though, you know, the singles [50:01] and everything that I'd done earlier in [50:02] the day had a slight effect and I was [50:04] like, I can't ever let that happen [50:05] again. I I need to put make sure I put [50:07] all my energy into this table table [50:09] training. And it's funny, you know, [50:11] being 51 and having over 30 years [50:14] competitively in the sport, I still feel [50:16] like I learn, you know, I still feel [50:18] like I change things from from event to [50:21] event. [50:22] >> Yeah. [50:22] >> Well, that's a sign you're doing [50:23] something fun. [50:24] >> Yeah. [50:24] >> Right. As you can continue to get better [50:26] at it and continue to grow at it. [50:28] >> Key to life. [50:29] >> So, just the one training session with [50:31] him changed your perspective on that [50:34] because you just weren't performing as [50:35] well. [50:36] >> That was a tipping point. That was a [50:38] tipping point for me. So, I generally [50:41] have a protocol, like a training kind of [50:44] balance, a recipe that I'm going to [50:46] follow pretty much from event to event. [50:49] >> And this is all made by you? [50:51] >> Is made by me. Um, and I I watch [50:54] everything, you know. I I love arm [50:56] wrestling, but I'm looking at sports. [50:57] I'm always trying to get better. Um, so [51:00] yeah, it's my protocol that I come up [51:01] with, and then I'll tweak it based off [51:04] of my results. Okay? Okay. So, if I'm [51:07] doing good, not much changes. If if uh [51:10] if I don't do as good as I think I [51:12] should do or there's like something, [51:13] I'll tweak it from event to event. And [51:16] yeah, and that night uh was the night [51:19] that I decided I need to get rid of [51:22] heavy weights because this is so good. [51:23] This training is so good when done [51:25] properly. And that's the key when done [51:27] properly. Like two arm work can suck. [51:30] Like if you do two arm work wrong, it [51:32] can hurt you. It can set you back. But [51:34] when done properly, it's the best [51:36] training that there can be. Yeah. [51:38] >> Specifically for [51:39] >> super specific. [51:41] >> And do you do stuff that's not specific [51:43] for arm wrestling just for overall body [51:45] strength? Like do you feel like there's [51:46] a balance to be achieved? [51:48] >> This is uh the greatest um criticism [51:52] that I always receive as an athlete uh [51:55] is because I don't really [51:57] >> just arm wrestling stuff. I [51:58] >> I go for walks. [52:00] >> That's it. [52:01] >> I'm terrible. [52:02] >> Really? No lunges, no legs. [52:04] >> I'm trying a little bit to work it back [52:07] in in some minimal way. Uh but it's it's [52:11] interesting, you know, cross trainining [52:13] versus specialization. Uh I have a long [52:16] background in in very broad training. [52:19] Okay. Like I I once upon a time was a [52:22] fit human being in many aspects, but I [52:25] really care about being a champ, you [52:27] know, and I could probably be a [52:30] healthier guy and be able to run and [52:33] squat and deadlift. Uh or I can be a [52:37] little bit of a [ __ ] and be pulling [52:39] for world title shots is the way I kind [52:41] of look at it. And I chose that. Uh [52:44] >> wow. [52:44] >> I should do more squats. Well, my only [52:46] thought would be that if you conditioned [52:49] and strengthened your overall body, it [52:51] would just help your overall strength. [52:54] >> Yeah. [52:54] >> I mean, that is the thought about [52:55] deadlifting and squatting is that it [52:58] helps everything because your whole body [53:00] just becomes stronger and it would just [53:02] n like naturally like your base, [53:04] everything, your core, everything would [53:07] just be much more your foundation would [53:11] be stronger. [53:12] >> I I hear you. [53:13] >> But I don't know. I don't I'm not [53:15] obviously I'm not an arm wrestler. [53:16] >> I don't know either. Okay. Everything. [53:18] I'm I'm playing with everything. Uh [53:21] >> this is constantly what pretty much [53:23] every reasonable person tells me and I [53:26] just I'm like I get to a point where I [53:28] do my arm wrestling work and I'm like, [53:29] "Okay, here I am. [53:30] >> If I want to beat Leavonne, [53:33] um what do I do from here?" And I just [53:35] I'm like more wrist curls, [53:38] you know? Uh look at mine. [53:40] >> What does he do? [53:41] >> Uh he's a bit more balanced than me. He [53:43] He Leavonne lifts super heavy weights. [53:46] Uh like stupid. [53:47] >> What does this dude looks like? Show me [53:49] Show me Leavonne. [53:50] >> What is his last name? [53:52] >> Sag Philly. [53:53] >> Whoa. [53:54] >> This is the pinnacle of our sport. [53:56] >> Okay. This is the guy. [53:57] >> How big is this dude? [53:59] >> He gets about 420. [54:01] [laughter] [54:01] >> Yeah. [54:02] >> Oh my god. [54:03] >> I love this guy. [54:04] >> Look at the size of this [ __ ] [54:06] >> This This is [54:08] That can't be real. Is that AI? Is that [54:10] picture AI? That one right there. Okay, [54:12] that's real. [54:13] >> Oh my god, this is real. [54:16] >> I don't know, Jamie. That might be real. [54:17] He might just be pumped. [54:18] >> Leavonne is the pinnacle. Okay, we [54:22] scanned him, too. [laughter] And [54:23] surprise, he's a weirdo, also. [54:25] >> Oh, yeah. Duh. [54:27] >> Yeah. Yeah. [54:28] >> Look at the size of that [ __ ] [54:30] >> He's in Little Rock in two days. [54:32] >> In Little Rock, Arkansas. [54:33] >> Yeah. [54:33] >> Where does he live right now? [54:34] >> Georgia. [54:35] >> Georgia. The country. [54:36] >> There's so many weirdos that come from [54:38] Georgia. [54:39] >> Really? [54:40] >> Yeah. proportionately their strength is [54:41] is not normal. Jo Leavonne is uh he [54:45] hasn't nobody has beat this guy since [54:48] 2017. [54:49] He has absolutely [laughter] [54:51] flattened the field. Okay. Like [54:53] >> he's so hairy, too. He He looks like a [54:56] primitive man. He looks like a science [54:59] project. Look at the [ __ ] size of [55:01] that guy. [laughter] Oh my god. [55:04] >> Smart guy. Very cool guy. Um I I [55:08] absolutely love Leavonne. Um he has [55:11] beaten the piss out of me at every [55:13] opportunity. [55:14] >> Oh, he's so big, though. [55:15] >> Yeah, he is. He is so big and uh and [55:17] he's so good. He's like he grew up in [55:20] the trenches arm wrestling. Okay. He [55:22] didn't he's not one of these guys who [55:24] came in uh you know, he he made his way [55:27] through the world championships. [55:29] >> Yeah. He hasn't lost in 10 years, man. [55:31] >> And so he does he do different stuff [55:33] than you do? [55:34] >> He does. Um, a lot of the guys have [55:37] different formulas. Okay, Leavonne does [55:40] a lot of pull-ups, really heavy ones, [55:43] and he does a lot of really heavy curls. [55:46] >> This is the base, but he does all the [55:48] same, like we do all the same exercises, [55:50] just different different formulas. Um, [55:53] >> now when you hear the best guy is doing [55:56] things different than you, [55:58] >> Yeah. [56:00] >> what keeps you from doing what he does? [56:02] >> So, we are all different, [56:04] >> right? Um, [56:05] >> that's what he used to look like. That's [56:06] [laughter] crazy. [56:08] >> Shout out to steroids. [56:11] >> Shout out Shout out to all the [56:13] scientists out there. [56:14] >> He's very young in that first photo, of [56:16] course. [56:17] >> You know, he he slowly evolved through [56:20] the world championships to what he is [56:22] today. Um, [56:25] yeah, it's interesting when when you see [56:27] different champions, and I try and learn [56:29] from everybody. I I I watch what [56:30] everybody does. I I see what they're [56:33] doing. Uh, you have to also consider [56:36] where your body's at. Okay. I can't do [56:38] the things I did when I was 25 [56:40] >> physically. [56:41] >> I just can't. I I I have I have, like I [56:44] said, I've had surgeries. Um, [56:46] >> but yet you can still arm wrestle. [56:48] >> Yeah. [56:49] >> So So obviously you're very strong in [56:51] these particular areas and it's not [56:53] holding you back at all. So what what is [56:55] holding you back? Um, [56:57] >> when you say injuries, [57:00] >> well, arm wrestling is a big thing. [57:03] Okay. There's several things that you [57:05] can kind of choose to focus on. [57:08] Probably my biggest limiting factor is [57:10] my elbow because I've had multiple [57:13] surgeries on it. I burn it out. Like at [57:15] the beginning of my career, I was more [57:17] of a a hook style arm wrestler. That's [57:19] where like the primary kind of drive in [57:22] the sport is is the flexion of the wrist [57:24] and and you're moving forward with your [57:25] shoulder and you're kind of trying to [57:27] attack the person's arm more. Uh but [57:30] over time, my elbow just got broke down [57:32] to the point where, you know, I just [57:34] don't have a lot of stability. Now, I [57:36] continue to work on it [57:37] >> and and quite honestly, my hooking now, [57:40] my this stability is probably pretty [57:43] good. Um, [57:45] I think I think that we do we all as [57:48] athletes do the best thing we think we [57:50] can and um I think that the work that I [57:55] do is very precise. Like the way that [57:59] Leavonne trains and I and and please I [58:02] don't like to criticize Leavonne. He's [58:04] the best. Okay. Um but egotistically and [58:08] arrogantly I'm going to say that my [58:10] training is more precise than his. Okay? [58:12] So, I'm working on very precise angles [58:15] where he's a sledgehammer at times, you [58:18] know, um like I'm working on very fine [58:21] angles through my wrist. Uh you know, a [58:23] lot of pronation in my style, a lot of [58:25] hand control, a lot of table time. Like [58:28] I'm doing a lot of skill-based training. [58:30] uh Leavon's base movements, his his row, [58:34] his is I mean he's doing he's doing a [58:38] 180 kilo curl, [laughter] [58:41] you know, [58:42] >> two hands or one hand, [58:44] >> two, but that's a crazy but he's the the [58:47] amount of weight that he's wrist [58:48] curling. Okay, I'm ne I'm I'm never [58:51] going to get there. Okay, I'm never [58:53] gonna catch him there. Okay, I need to [58:56] catch him through something smaller. [58:58] Like I need to be able to like a pitbull [59:00] like somehow nip onto like his fingertip [59:03] and not let it go. [59:05] >> Um [59:05] >> because you're never gonna be as big as [59:06] him. [59:07] >> Probably not. [59:09] >> But do you think that it would benefit [59:11] you at all to add size to get [59:15] >> I I try it for every single prep that I [59:19] do? I'm trying in the super heavyweight [59:21] division. I'm trying to get as big as [59:22] strong as I can. [59:23] >> What do you weigh now? [59:24] >> Today I'm probably 265. And so you're [59:27] giving up a a considerable amount of [59:30] weight. [59:30] >> When I compete, I can I can get up to [59:32] 300, okay, when I'm competing. Uh and [59:36] hopefully by the time I face him again, [59:37] I'll be my biggest ever. I hope when I [59:40] pull him, I'll be 310 or 320, you know. [59:43] >> And when you do that, what would you do [59:44] to get that big? Would you add a bunch [59:46] of weightlifting stuff? [59:48] >> No. [59:49] >> No. What would you do? Just eat? [59:51] >> Eat. Stay in my basement, you know? [59:54] [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, [59:56] >> but he's doing all this other stuff. [59:57] This is why I'm confused. Like, have you [60:00] tried adding all those chin-ups and all [60:02] the different things that he does? [60:04] >> I am very far down the road. I'm very, [60:06] very far down the road. I've been doing [60:08] this for like 32 years competitively. [60:12] I've gone through so many systems. Um, [60:16] while it is incredible to have a great [60:18] row, while it is incredible to have a [60:21] great um a great wrist flexion, while [60:25] it's incredible to have great legs, like [60:26] I go to tournaments sometimes and my [60:28] legs are sore, but typically the reason [60:30] why you win and lose the match is very [60:33] small things in the hand and the wrist. [60:35] Like this is typically the failure [60:36] point. So I just try and put everything [60:40] into the most valuable pieces that I [60:43] think is actually going to determine my [60:44] victory. And look at apart from [60:46] Leavonne, [60:47] >> it's working. You know, [clears throat] [60:49] this guy has raised he's raised the [60:52] sport, you know, and I continue to chase [60:55] him. I continue to try and beat this [60:58] dude. You know, my wife, [60:59] >> you gotten close. [sighs] [61:02] [laughter] [61:05] The first time, the first time he tore [61:07] my bicep. [61:08] >> Oh, whoa. [61:09] >> You know, see, see that tattoo? [61:11] >> Uhuh. [61:11] >> See, it's a cat with 415. I used to call [61:14] him a a 415 pound [ __ ] you know, in [61:16] the workup to the match. I was teasing [61:18] him and and George and it says Leavonne [61:20] was here because he ripped it. Second [61:23] round. Uh so that was the first time was [61:25] a wash. Uh the second time I pulled him, [61:29] uh I stopped him. I stopped him round [61:32] one. What does that mean? [61:35] >> So, a lot of times in arm wrestling, get [61:37] everything straight, don't move, go. And [61:42] uh to stop a match means there's no [61:45] movement. [61:46] >> So, no one's winning. [61:47] >> Nobody's winning. [61:48] >> And you don't just keep going to the [61:50] death. [61:50] >> Oh, yeah. [61:51] >> You do. [61:51] >> Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. But I I got like [61:54] if you look up the second time that I [61:56] arm wrestled for round one. Yeah. Okay. [61:59] So, this is this is the last time I [62:00] pulled him, which is 2024. And when you [62:03] say pulled them, it means you have a [62:04] match with them. [62:05] >> Yeah, that's right. [62:05] >> Okay. [62:06] >> So, everything goes to the straps. [62:11] >> And I'm telling you, like [62:12] >> So, is that what happens when the match [62:14] doesn't work out and the hands slip away [62:16] from each other? [62:17] >> Straps. [62:18] >> Straps. Do you guys put powder in your [62:20] hands or anything? Yeah. [62:21] >> Yeah. Use chalk. But [62:24] yeah, every this sport is a strap-based [62:26] sport at this point. Like rules are [62:28] evolving in arm wrestling. It used to be [62:31] well in some leagues still you get a [62:33] foul if you if there's a slip somebody's [62:35] intentionally did it or it's a neutral [62:37] slip and then they go to the straps. Um [62:40] but yeah so we get to the straps and [62:42] this first round is the closest I've [62:44] gotten to him. Um and in this match I [62:48] think he I think he might have ripped my [62:51] spine apart like [laughter] Yeah. I [62:54] couldn't walk properly for like four [62:56] months after Yeah. Yeah. [62:59] Okay. So, I'm top rolling. I get into [63:02] his wrist and uh and I'm just like I'm [63:05] in shock. I'm like I can't believe. So, [63:07] I kind of I think I had the opportunity [63:09] here to do a little bit more like to [63:11] seize the initiative, but I was in such [63:13] shock that I got him to this point. Um [63:16] you know, I'm just And then here we go. [63:19] His wrist is starting to go and so [63:21] that's a flop wrist press. And I get a [63:23] foul. Okay. For See, my shoulder goes [63:26] below the table. [63:27] >> Uhhuh. This is called decline humorous [63:30] and it's and it's a foul. You can't you [63:32] can't do that. [63:32] >> So you start from scratch. [63:34] >> Well, I'm actually on my second foul. So [63:36] that's a loss because I was being too [63:38] much of an idiot in the setup and they [63:40] and they gave me a foul and then from [63:42] here on he just he just runs me. [63:44] >> So it's a loss. What do you mean? [63:46] >> So in arm wrestling if you get two fouls [63:49] >> Uhhuh. [63:49] >> it's a loss. [63:50] >> So the match is over. [63:51] >> Match is over. But see this is best of [63:53] seven. So from here he runs me over. But [63:57] this is the closest I've gotten. Okay, [63:59] we've practiced since then. We've we've [64:02] we've gone on to I'll probably practice [64:03] with him this weekend. Um, but I'm [64:06] slated to pull this monster again. It's [64:09] going to happen one more time for sure. [64:11] It's uh it's what keeps me in my [64:13] basement. It's [64:15] >> that one guy. [64:16] >> This guy, [64:17] >> the size of that [ __ ] [64:18] >> He's awesome. Oh, he's a he's a [64:20] beautiful human. I I I love I love this [64:23] guy. He's he's the he's lifting the [64:26] sport in terms of performance, you know, [64:28] like he's so hard to deal with. Yeah. [64:33] And that's it, man. It just gets worse. [64:35] It just gets worse. [64:37] >> But, uh, [64:39] yeah. So, I I can still win in like the [64:41] 115 kilo division, in the 105 kilo [64:44] division. I think I've got those ones [64:46] pretty much wrapped up. It's But but [64:49] it's the open, man. To be the best. [64:51] >> Yeah. [64:51] >> Regardless of weight. Um, [64:53] >> that's so much weight to give up. [64:55] >> I know. But [64:55] >> you giving up what? 135 lbs. [64:59] >> Yeah. [64:59] >> But it's so cool to try, [laughter] you [65:02] know? It's so cool to try. And what he [65:05] does is he cleans my life up. If it [65:07] wasn't for him, I wouldn't do all this. [65:09] >> Really? [65:10] >> Oh, no. I'd be happy being the champ, [65:13] [laughter] you know. But when you're not [65:14] the champ, you're not happy. And you're [65:16] going to do everything you can. So, [65:18] >> so even though you're a champ at your [65:19] weight class, it's the open that [65:22] >> open [65:22] >> haunts you. [65:22] >> Haunts me. Yeah, I've been there before. [65:26] Like, so in 2008, I was actually I I won [65:29] against this legendary figure of the [65:31] sport, John Bzen. He's considered the [65:33] greatest of all time. John Bzen uh [65:36] basically for 40 years, 40 years from [65:40] the time he was like 18 to like almost [65:44] 60. Okay. He He went undefeated for like [65:47] basically undefeated for like 25 years. [65:51] Yeah. Ain't American. This guy This guy [65:55] super cool. Okay. Different era and [65:56] you'll see the difference. Okay. So, [65:58] you'll see that this sport has changed. [66:00] >> Can we pull him up? [66:01] >> John Bzink. John Bzink's the goat. Yeah. [66:05] Yeah. He'll be there this weekend, too. [66:07] >> And is he still competing? [gasps] [66:09] >> John is not really competing, but he's [66:12] just so tied into the sport. I think [66:14] it's inevitable that he comes back. But [66:16] >> how old is he? [66:17] >> He's like 60 61 or Yeah. [66:19] >> Wow. [66:20] >> Yeah. Yeah. He's the man. This guy's the [66:22] man. So, you know the movie Over the [66:23] Top? [66:25] >> Uh, so Sylvester, that's actually John. [66:29] The tournament was real. [66:31] >> Over. Yeah, that was a real The movie [66:34] followed the tournament [66:35] >> and John is actually the guy who won it. [66:38] >> And John's not that big. [66:39] >> No, he's not. [66:40] >> How much does John weigh [66:42] >> on a good day? On a great day, John's [66:44] like 230. But but but when he was young [66:47] and healthy, probably 195 like [66:50] >> so when he was winning [66:51] >> when he like he went like he went like [66:55] 25 years around 210 lbs beating every [66:59] single person on the planet. How? He's [67:01] awesome. He's awesome. John Bzen. So [67:04] John started arm wrestling was when he [67:05] was a kid with his dad and he's one of [67:08] the first guys. Can [67:09] >> we see him do it? [67:10] >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying. [67:10] >> John's one of the first guys who arm [67:14] wrestling has kind of evolved in its [67:17] respectedness, okay, as a sport. I think [67:19] if you went back like 40 years and you [67:22] talk about arm wrestling, uh people [67:24] would be like, "Oh, that's cool. Yeah, [67:25] let's go arm wrestle." Like, and I'm [67:27] going to get better by arm wrestling by [67:29] doing pecs and glutes and, you know, get [67:31] my whole body strong. And John was kind [67:33] of one of the first guys who was like, [67:35] I'm an arm wrestler. I I practice arm [67:37] wrestling. I go to tournaments. I don't [67:39] need to lift weights. Okay. So, he [67:41] started young. Uh the dude's thumb is [67:44] probably like bigger than mine and he's [67:46] like, you know, 6'1, 6'2. So, he's to a [67:50] certain degree built for it. But, um [67:53] masterful technician. Um [67:55] >> so, he doesn't lift weights. [67:57] >> No. [67:58] >> So, all he did was arm wrestle to train [68:00] for arm wrestling. [68:01] >> Isn't that wild? [68:02] >> That's crazy. [68:02] >> Right. So, so it gave [68:04] >> He's not a big guy. [68:04] >> No, he's not. That's a former Russian [68:07] champion, Zhour. Uh, actually, no, Zar [68:09] might be Georgian. He might have been [68:11] Russian at this time, but he's a he's a [68:12] Georgian. Um, yeah. Yeah, John's [68:16] technique was way above everybody's. Way [68:20] way above. Uh, I remember coming up like [68:25] I had heard about John Bersink for years [68:28] before I ever saw him because, you know, [68:30] it's pre- internet, right? John Berszen [68:33] like silently ruled the arm wrestling [68:35] world for decades, you know, pre- [68:37] internet, pre pre uh pre- all this [68:40] stuff. And yeah, and he went around the [68:42] world beating all the monsters, all the [68:46] and this is who I actually got the the [68:48] world title from. So I beat John in 2008 [68:51] for the world title [68:53] and it looks very different now, you [68:55] know, like so before. So, I was probably [68:58] the last of the small super heavyweights [69:01] if you call if you call me small. Like, [69:02] I'm bigger than John, but not by a lot. [69:05] Not by a lot. Um, see Dennis Slankoff on [69:08] the left. That guy's a really famous arm [69:10] wrestler. He was one of the guys who [69:12] really raised the level. So, that guy [69:14] had a strength level. Dennis, he came in [69:16] and he won the world title without [69:18] really doing anything. [69:20] >> Yeah. [69:21] >> I can't believe he doesn't lift weights. [69:22] >> He doesn't lift weights. [69:24] >> All he does is arm wrestle. All he does [69:26] is arm wrestle. [69:27] >> No other kind of physical training at [69:28] all. [69:29] >> He's a mechanic. [69:31] [laughter] [69:35] >> He's a special guy. Listen. Listen. [69:37] >> That's incredible, man. The the the arm [69:39] wrestling world loves and worships John [69:41] Bzink. He's he's the goat. He's like the [69:43] forefather. Like um I remember when I [69:45] was coming up, I read everything this [69:47] dude wrote. He is the one of the reasons [69:51] why we all kind of respect table time. [69:54] don't need weight so much. [69:56] Specialization, John is kind of the [69:58] poster boy for for specialization. [70:01] >> And what kind of training did he do? [70:03] >> Dude, he arm wrestled. [70:04] >> Just arm wrestled. Do specific things [70:07] when he was arm wrestling? [70:08] >> And that we keep asking the same [70:10] questions about John. Um, like we think [70:13] like some people think he had like a [70:14] secret setup in his basement and stuff [70:16] like, but everything kind of points [70:19] towards um, even if he's kind of kidding [70:22] us and tricking us, it's certainly not a [70:24] lot. Uh, he arm wrestled with his dad as [70:27] a kid, okay? And you know, they're [70:30] practicing all the time. So this Iceman, [70:32] okay, that's the that's the guy who John [70:34] beat to become kind of the best. Okay, [70:37] this guy is like the guy before John. [70:41] So, he was the original king of arm [70:43] wrestling. [70:44] >> He is. Yeah. [70:45] >> Johnny Walker. [70:45] >> Johnny Walker. Yeah. Iceman. Uh, and he [70:49] he was the best for a long time, but [70:51] John eventually beat him, [70:53] >> you know. You see, that's John is like a [70:54] kid, [70:55] >> right? John's probably like 17 there. [70:58] >> Wow. [70:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. But no, John arm wrestled [71:01] all John like arm wrestling is going to [71:03] make you strong. Make Oh, imagine. [71:05] >> Oh, you you will get that. And that's a [71:08] lot of reason why we get guys into the [71:10] sport who are in the strength field. [71:12] Like if you're a strong man, if you're [71:13] powerlift, you try arm wrestling, you'll [71:15] be so sore. You'll be like, "Oh my god." [71:17] Cuz people look for that, right? Like [71:19] people want [71:20] >> something that can get you really sore. [71:21] >> Arm wrestling will get you so sore that [71:24] you can barely move. I I've been so sore [71:26] from arm wrestling matches. I can't even [71:28] walk. I can't even get up for for days. [71:31] For for days. Like wow. Yeah. Yeah. [71:34] Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable. Because it's [71:36] something about the way the body is [71:38] designed. Like we are actually probably [71:41] designed to resist things from happening [71:44] more than we are to make things happen. [71:46] So we're very very strong to stop things [71:49] from happening. And arm wrestling is [71:51] what that that's the strength we really [71:53] hone in on, right? Because we're [71:54] locking. We get into these locked [71:56] positions and then we're trying to open [71:58] the other person up. M [72:00] >> and this process of being ripped open is [72:04] super taxing. Super super t tax taxing. [72:07] So yeah, John John ruled the arm [72:10] wrestling world for like 25 years. Uh [72:13] he's still around. Yeah, I'll get to [72:15] I'll get to talk to him tomorrow. Yeah. [72:19] >> And so do you think he thinks about [72:20] competing again? [72:22] >> Of course he does. Of course he does. [72:25] >> But he doesn't When was the last time he [72:26] did it? [72:27] >> Last time he competed was in Dallas. He [72:29] competed against a guy called Yoshi [72:30] Kana. Uh who's the number one guy from [72:33] Japan. Um John is way past his prime. [72:37] Okay. Like John John uh when John was [72:40] like in his 30s, he was like the [72:44] Leavonne but 210 lbs. Nobody could beat [72:48] him. It It took a while, but the thing [72:50] is arm wrestling got cool, you know, to [72:53] a degree where we were on ESPN. [72:56] uh governments started to recognize it. [72:59] So if you were from the right country, [73:01] you know, you could be a pro arm [73:02] wrestler like if you're from Georgia or [73:04] Turkey or Kazakhstan, you know, so the [73:07] level started rising. [73:09] >> When did this start happening? [73:10] >> Um I think that governments started to [73:13] recognize it. I'm going to guess here [73:15] that a lot of them started to do it [73:17] around the turn of the millennia. Okay. [73:20] probably they started around then, but [73:22] it takes a long time for the it all to [73:24] like get in and and some countries are [73:26] still switching over. I think Sweden [73:28] just got recognized like I think within [73:30] the last year or so, but once a country [73:33] recognizes it as a sport, it's a massive [73:35] influx of cash and support. So, that'll [73:39] raise the level. Um, but what happened [73:44] was we got there was all these leagues [73:47] like there was uh the PL in Europe, [73:50] there was the W in in North America and [73:53] it and it and it got the sport to a [73:55] point where if you were the best, you [73:58] could probably quit your job. [74:01] >> Okay. And that was a huge step forward [74:03] because you know um Yeah, that's a big [74:07] step, right? And that happened around uh [74:11] 2015. [74:12] >> And do you think that's because of the [74:13] internet like YouTube videos like [74:16] popularity increases, Tik Tok, [74:18] Instagram, that kind of [ __ ] [74:19] >> I that was massive, but that happened a [74:22] bit later. Um first what happened a lot [74:25] of small little steps. Uh you know there [74:28] was a documentary pulling John that came [74:31] out. Uh there was a couple rich guys who [74:34] thought arm wrestling was cool and they [74:36] just started to run leagues. Uh Robert [74:39] Drank with the UA uh Ultimate Arm [74:41] Wrestling League out of California. I [74:43] mean it went from like when I first [74:45] started the sport, Mike Ghoul Classic, [74:47] if we won 500 bucks, it was the greatest [74:49] day of our life, you know. It was so [74:51] cool. We won 500 bucks like you know. Um [74:54] that was it. Uh, and then with by by by [74:59] 2010 or so, even before that, the PLA, [75:03] we were talking about thousands of [75:04] dollars, $10,000, [75:07] WA came along and we got a massive [75:09] influx of money. You were talking about [75:11] $20,000. Okay? And then we were on ESPN, [75:14] so there were sponsors. Okay? So, you [75:16] could get some sponsor money. If you [75:17] were the best, you could barely make it. [75:20] You could barely make it. And then, uh, [75:23] and then CO happened. and COVID burnt [75:26] down everything. Burnt down all the [75:28] leagues which were kind of fractioning [75:30] the sport, right? We had the best guys [75:32] from Europe competing together, best [75:35] guys from North America when all the [75:37] leagues burnt down from the ashes and a [75:40] lot of people and that's when Tik Tok [75:41] and YouTube really started kicking [75:43] because everybody was locked in their [75:44] house and somehow arm wrestling got [75:46] found and our views went through the [75:48] roof. People started to follow. Arm [75:51] wrestling is good for Tik Tok attention [75:52] span. you know, you can see a whole [75:55] Yeah. [75:56] >> And uh and then Yeah. So, East versus [75:57] West came along and [76:00] >> now we're everything UFC, we're like the [76:04] UFC of of arm wrestling now, East versus [76:06] West. All the best guys in the world all [76:08] pull it east versus west. And there's an [76:10] event every seven weeks international. [76:13] >> So, like what does a top guy make to win [76:15] a tournament? No. [76:16] >> Um, [76:18] you know, it's it's tricky when we talk [76:20] about money, but you will make like if [76:22] you're a if if you're a top arm wrestler [76:24] now, you're you're definitely you [76:26] definitely don't need a side job. You [76:28] definitely don't. Um, and you're and [76:31] you're you're probably definitely making [76:33] a healthy a healthy six figures, you [76:35] know, definitely. Um, so yeah, so East [76:40] versus West kind of raised the level [76:43] after CO. It's not the same sport. It's [76:46] not like the champions now. Like, [76:49] [gasps] [76:50] it's tough. It's tough to win a world. [76:52] Way harder to win a world title now than [76:53] it was 10 or 15, 20 years ago. [76:56] >> Yeah. Yeah. Now we have Leavon, [76:58] >> right? Is there any drug testing [77:01] >> at East versus West? There's not. Okay. [77:02] So, it's it's F1, you know, everything [77:05] everything goes. But [77:06] >> what does F1 mean? [77:08] >> You know, like indie car, [77:09] >> everybody's got the same car, [77:11] >> right? F1 like in innovation, [77:14] >> right? [77:14] >> Innovation. Um [77:17] >> um WFT government funded that has [77:20] testing. [77:21] >> What is WFT? [77:21] >> Oh, sorry. World Arm Wrestling [77:23] Federation. So, World Arm Wrestling [77:25] Federation is kind of like the base of [77:27] the sport. Okay. It's it's uh a world [77:31] level. So, every country kind of plugs [77:34] into it. They have uh state or [77:36] provincial. Uh then they have national. [77:39] They have like Europeans or North [77:41] Americans and then they have a world [77:43] championships annually different part of [77:46] the world every year that's tested. [77:50] >> It's such a universal thing. Like I [77:53] remember arm wrestling kids in high [77:55] school. Yeah. [77:55] >> You know, everybody knows how to arm [77:57] wrestle. It's always been around. It's [77:58] always been a thing. So, it's really [78:00] interesting to think that it's becoming [78:02] more popular now than ever. [78:05] >> It is. It's wonderful. I I love the [78:07] sport. Uh I I think that it's a great [78:12] sport because of its safety, its [78:14] longevity, um its simplicity. Yeah. [78:19] Beautiful sport, [78:20] >> but there's a lot of aspects to it. It's [78:22] simple, but you're still learning. [78:23] >> It is. [78:24] >> So, it can be that simple. [78:25] >> Like anything, you know, the more you [78:28] dive into something, the more it opens. [78:30] >> Yeah. [78:31] >> Yeah. at at the level that I'm at now, [78:34] uh, you know, I continue to learn [78:36] subtleties on a technical level, but it [78:39] overflows more now into more vague and [78:42] kind of like lifestyle principles. Uh, [78:44] and I feel like that's how I get my big [78:46] gains now is, uh, you know, is is the [78:49] way I live my life. Like the sport, you [78:51] know, kind of cleans up my whole life. [78:53] >> Yeah. [78:55] >> Because you want to perform well. [78:56] >> That's it. And so you're just so [78:58] dedicated that like you're on top of [79:00] your nutrition, your sleep, everything. [79:02] >> Everything. Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere [79:05] between a balance between chaos and [79:07] order, perfect performance is found. [79:10] Yeah. [79:11] >> Yeah. [79:12] >> The balance between chaos and order is [79:13] interesting because you kind of to [79:15] become great, you kind of have to have [79:17] some chaos. [79:18] >> You It's so essential. [79:20] >> Yeah. [79:20] >> Chaos is a huge part. [79:22] >> Talk to me about that. What is that? [79:23] >> This is this is I love this one. This is [79:27] so good. Um, this is one of my latest [79:31] learning points that I I've taken into [79:33] account. Uh, and it's massively affected [79:36] my planning, um, the way I the way I [79:39] plan events. Uh so I have met many [79:43] people in my life and I've met probably [79:47] in my entire life probably like two [79:49] people who I would consider completely [79:52] pure, you know, like basically like a [79:54] Jesus Christ kind of person like no sin. [79:57] Okay. But and then and on the other [79:59] side, I've met only like a couple people [80:01] who I thought were genuinely pure evil [80:04] or you know uh but I think most people [80:06] are somewhere in the middle. Okay. and [80:08] and they need that balance in their [80:10] life, you know. Um, and I think that you [80:14] need to if you're talking about [80:16] performance on a single date, this [80:18] balance of what you are needs to be [80:20] structured. Um, so I think that actually [80:24] in the fight, like when you're actually [80:25] fighting, um, a lot of people I think [80:29] perform best in chaos. Okay? So when you [80:31] get into the stage, you have to be [80:32] completely wild. Uh, no rules, like you [80:35] need to be completely unhinged. Um, but [80:39] leading up to it, you need to structure. [80:41] You need to really become very ordered. [80:45] And the more you can bring order into [80:46] your life, the better. Um, I went to a [80:51] um kind of a a presentation [80:54] uh by this by this guy Mack, okay? He's [80:57] a geneticist as well, and he was talking [80:59] about how life only exists in this [81:01] balance between chaos and order. And [81:03] from that I I brought that into my [81:07] training by making sticker charts. [81:10] So when I was young, my mom used to [81:13] motivate me through sticker charts. So [81:16] when I did a good job, she'd give me a [81:18] sticker and I loved it. So I have [81:22] brought this concept into my training [81:24] where uh there's only two stickers. [81:27] There's there's a blue sticker which is [81:29] uh you didn't quite make it. It's [81:31] representative of chaos and uh and and a [81:35] white sticker which is representative of [81:37] order. And after I compete, I I [81:42] purposefully move into chaos. And it's [81:44] not as though like, oh, I'm in chaos and [81:46] I let everything catch on fire. I just I [81:49] don't need structure. I can go wherever. [81:52] I can learn new things. I can try new [81:54] things. I can open up my mind to [81:56] whatever I want. Nothing's required. But [81:59] [snorts] really I'm trying to gather [82:01] data, put together a plan so that when I [82:03] move into structure, I have a new kind [82:05] of plan. Um, [82:08] >> so how do you structure that like when [82:11] when you say you move into chaos like [82:13] you allow yourself to not have a plan? [82:15] Yeah. Like what? [82:16] >> So this is obviously very planned. [82:19] >> Yes. Yeah. So I will move from major my [82:23] life is structured that I'm move it's in [82:26] blocks. Okay. So, I move from major [82:29] event to major event. I am now at the [82:33] very beginning of probably the longest [82:37] block that I've ever had in my life. I'm [82:40] going to face that guy Leavonne in like [82:43] 16 months. It's forever. It's an [82:45] eternity, [snorts] you know. So, I am [82:49] now in this period when I can travel. I [82:52] can I can just I can be more open. Um, [82:55] in a way it it helps get me there. You [82:59] know, I am trying to come up with what I [83:01] think is the perfect blend so that when [83:03] I lock into my basement, I'm being super [83:05] accurate. But I do believe that if you [83:09] just try and be good every day, if you [83:11] try and live a certain way every day, it [83:13] creeps into your life. I need like a [83:15] finish line. Okay? Like if I know I only [83:19] have to be like this for four months or [83:20] five months, [snorts] I can make it. you [83:24] know, if I'm like, I have to be like [83:25] this for my whole life, everything [83:27] creeps in. It falls apart. But it's a [83:30] it's a aid for me psychologically to [83:32] remain disciplined and it's and it's a [83:34] way for me to fit chaos into my life [83:37] where it satisfies me as a human being [83:40] and I get to have fun and uh I get to go [83:43] outside of my box. But um that's the [83:47] hardest thing to be a world champion at [83:49] 51 is to put all your energy into [83:52] something so simple. This is the most [83:55] difficult piece is the psychological [83:58] dedication to do 10 hours of wrist curls [84:01] in a day. You know, this is the [84:03] difficult. [84:03] >> You do 10 hours of wrist curls in a day. [84:05] >> I do. I I'll go I'll get up in the [84:08] morning and my wife Jod will help me. [84:13] Okay. they will have food and I'm doing [84:16] like and and that's the thing. So, right [84:19] now I'm coming up with the formula for [84:21] the next one, but I was doing 14 [84:25] uh seven times two uh cuz I was doing [84:28] right and left. I'm going back to [84:29] pumpkin training, which is right hand [84:31] only. Uh [84:32] >> they call that pumpkin training. [84:33] >> You know about growing giant pumpkins? [84:35] >> No. [84:36] >> You know those you know you ever seen [84:38] those fairs where they have like a 800 [84:41] pound, right? [84:41] >> Yeah. So what that tells what that [84:45] teaches is if you want to have a giant [84:47] pumpkin, you pinch off all the flowers [84:50] on the vine except for one. [84:52] >> Oh [84:52] >> yeah. [84:53] >> My giant pumpkin. [laughter] [84:55] >> Yeah. So I try and put everything into [84:58] the right. I try and put all And this is [85:00] So this is specialization. [85:03] So I've done this project for like I did [85:05] it for like six years before. So when [85:07] you're saying you put everything in the [85:09] right, you mean you don't do li wrist [85:10] curls or anything with your left hand? [85:12] >> Nothing. [85:12] >> Nothing. [85:13] >> Nothing. [85:14] >> Really? [85:15] >> Yeah. [85:17] >> Yeah. Now [85:18] >> is this a energy resource allocation? [85:22] Yes. [85:22] >> Yeah. [85:23] >> It's interesting. [85:24] >> Interesting. [85:25] >> Yeah. [85:25] >> Is the difference between your right and [85:27] your left? [85:27] >> Yeah. [85:28] >> Jesus Christ. [85:29] >> So you see, and I I came up with this [85:31] theory, you know, a little bit because [85:33] of just nature, okay? And I see how [85:35] nature works. And um but um [85:38] >> yeah, you have one giant form. Look at [85:42] the size of the difference. Put those [85:43] up. [85:43] >> It's a bit It's a bit bigger. [85:45] >> It's twice as big. [85:46] >> Okay. And and I was balanced. Okay. I [85:50] was equal. I I was left-hand world [85:52] champion also. Okay. I I've But but as [85:55] I've aged, I'm like, how can I remain at [85:58] the top of the sport? I'm going to have [85:59] to cut things, you know. But why does [86:02] training your left arm take away from [86:04] your right arm? [86:06] >> I think we only have so much energy. I [86:08] think there's like a finite amount of [86:10] energy that we have. And if I tell my [86:13] body that my energy goes here, more of [86:16] it will go there and more development [86:18] will happen. I don't think it's like I [86:20] have this limitless amount of energy [86:23] where I can be like a proportionate [86:25] bodybuilder and be a world champion. I [86:27] think that to be at the very top, you [86:29] need to be very specialized and very [86:31] focused. [86:32] >> That's that's what I believe. This comes [86:34] like a lot of people criticize me for [86:36] this. Okay. I get I get heaps of [86:38] criticism and and I I'm very well aware [86:40] of it. Um and I think that if you were [86:44] >> when you can I stop you there. When you [86:45] say heaps of criticism by who and is it [86:47] valid? [86:49] >> Uh I don't think it's valid. [86:51] >> So who's criticizing you? I think that [86:53] most of the criticism comes from more [86:56] junior players. Okay? I think that most [86:59] senior arm wrestlers, most guys who are [87:02] like on my level, uh they understand it [87:04] and to a certain degree we all do it. [87:07] Okay? I'm just an extreme example. But a [87:09] lot of guys do it. Okay? A lot of guys [87:11] do this in the sport. [87:14] >> There's a couple things that lead me to [87:16] this. Okay? The the the pumpkin is just [87:18] a fun metaphor. Okay? But um when you [87:23] get hurt in the one side, I think that a [87:26] lot of people notice that somehow [87:27] there's this amazing compensation that [87:30] happens. Um another thing is we have [87:33] freaks in the sport. We have we attract [87:37] some real weirdos, okay? A guy called [87:39] Oleg Zach or uh or Matias Schliti. Okay. [87:44] And these are hellboys. [87:47] Real life Hellboys. Okay. So they have [87:49] like one arm that is crazy jacked. [87:52] >> I've seen this one cat. He's a small [87:55] dude. Yeah. [87:55] >> And he has one arm that's like a leg. [87:58] >> Yeah. [87:58] >> What is his name? [87:59] >> Probably Oleg. It's Oleg or Matias. [88:02] There are best examples. Oleg is is [88:04] better. Like Oleg. Oleg's a world [88:06] champion. [88:06] >> What's his last name? [88:07] >> Zach. [88:09] >> What a great name. [88:10] >> Oh, he's so cool. [88:10] >> What a great name. Oh, that's the dude. [88:12] Yeah, that's the dude. [88:13] >> And I've fought him. I've [88:14] >> Look at the size of his [ __ ] left [88:16] arm. That is That is insanity. [88:19] >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I actually pulled this [88:21] guy at the U many years ago and he was [88:23] like 165 lbs and I was and I was the [88:27] current world champion and the kid [88:28] almost beat me. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. [88:30] >> Left-handed. [88:31] >> Left-handed. Yeah. Um [88:33] >> Jesus Christ, his arm is insane. [88:35] >> Isn't that awesome? [88:36] >> That is so crazy. Yeah. He has the arm [88:39] of a 300lb man, [88:40] >> dude. at at 170 pounds, he was almost [88:45] not even the the world champion in his [88:48] division. He was almost the world [88:50] champion in the open. [88:52] Okay. [88:53] >> God, look at his left arm. And it's [88:55] crazy. [88:56] >> And what's extra crazy about it is the [88:58] insertion points. It's not just that [89:01] he's hypertrophied and blown up. Like [89:03] the insertion points are different. He's [89:06] like the angles of his musculature, the [89:09] development like it's it's wild. [89:11] >> And how is that genetic? Is that built? [89:14] >> He was born like that to a certain [89:16] degree. He [89:17] >> But his right arm looks normal. [89:18] >> Normal. [89:19] >> So how is it so different on his left [89:21] arm? [89:21] >> So it's my theory, okay, that he has a [89:25] bit of a blood flow disorder. Okay. I [89:28] believe that. So the arterial spread in [89:32] the body for most of us is all all the [89:34] same. and we have like an even [89:36] distribution across our body, but I [89:39] believe that his arterial spread is [89:41] different. I I think he's got a heavy [89:44] heavy arterial flow to one side. [89:46] >> This is just your own personal theory. [89:48] >> I I've heard M I talked to Matias. [89:51] Matias is another guy with this [89:53] disorder. He was the one who kind of led [89:56] me to believe that this was what was [89:57] going on with him. And um so this made [90:02] me believe [90:04] that there was so much value in blood [90:07] flow alone when it comes to the [90:09] expression of of what you are like I [90:12] think anything that just gets more blood [90:15] flow enhances. [90:17] >> Yeah. The expression of the human being [90:20] uh is largely determined by the [90:22] circulation of that the genetic you know [90:25] piece receives. Um, and I think with [90:28] guys like this, it happened like in [90:31] uterro. [90:32] >> That is cra that left arm is [ __ ] [90:35] crazy. [90:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. And he got in a vicious car [90:39] crash. A horrible one. Almost killed [90:41] him. Um, and he's he rehabbed and he's [90:44] and once again he's he's the world champ [90:47] again in the 85 kilo division completely [90:49] and he like he should be dead. like he [90:52] broke everything like super trauma and [90:55] he's still the best. Uh [90:57] >> just pieced it back together again. [90:58] >> Yeah, pieced them back together and he's [91:00] still he's still the man. Um but yeah, [91:03] but what what he taught me and what [91:06] other people taught me is the value and [91:08] I believe it's all theories, okay? I [91:10] could be wrong on everything, but I I [91:12] think that it's the blood flow that [91:14] really it heals, it strengthens. [91:18] Um, and a lot of the thing is is um, the [91:21] heart isn't strong enough [snorts] to [91:24] feed all the structures and that's where [91:26] movement comes in. So that's why I train [91:29] this way, [91:31] increase circulation. [91:33] Yeah. [91:34] >> Wow. So, but I still don't understand [91:38] like clearly he's working that one arm [91:41] more than he's working the left arm or [91:42] excuse me, the right arm. [91:43] >> Yeah, I think to a certain degree. Um [91:46] but because of the way he was Yeah. This [91:49] is Matias, right? [91:50] >> Same deal. [91:51] >> Yeah. And he's and he's like German [91:53] German national champion kind of level. [91:56] >> Yeah. And like it's just it's hard to [91:58] compete with, [91:59] >> right? But how much of that is just work [92:01] with the right side over and over and [92:02] over again? And how much of it is you [92:04] think a genetic component [92:06] >> with these guys? It's a lot of genetic [92:09] >> really. [92:10] >> Yeah. With them. I believe the reason [92:12] why it's expressing that way is because [92:14] of an art arterial spread. Okay. And [92:16] talking to Matias, he's the one that led [92:18] me to believe that initially. [92:20] >> Is that arterial spread influenced by [92:22] work? Like does it change the expression [92:25] of the arteries in the in the muscles? [92:27] >> I think you can influence blood flow for [92:30] sure. Like I think if you are repeatedly [92:32] working one region very heavily, your [92:35] your circulatory system is going to [92:37] adapt. like my endurance capabilities on [92:40] my right and my left are completely [92:42] different. And that's from years of [92:44] doing this. And so I have to think that [92:47] uh you know it's not just a a cellular [92:49] thing. It's got to be the blood flow. [92:51] It's got to be everything that is [92:52] adapted over years. [92:54] >> Yeah. And look at I I really care about [92:56] being the best. And all the information [92:59] that I have makes me I'm doing it again. [93:02] like I laid off it for a couple years, [93:05] but I've started to do it again as I do [93:07] my final prep. One more time for [93:09] >> When you say do it again, what are you [93:10] doing differently? [93:11] >> I'll go back to so my work um capacity [93:15] work work amount that I'm doing between [93:18] my right and left arm. It's sometimes [93:21] it's equal. Sometimes is what I do with [93:24] the right is what I do with the left. Uh [93:26] sometimes when I go to the club, I'll do [93:27] right arm, I'll do left arm. And now [93:30] I've just swung it back. So, I go to the [93:32] club and I'm basically arm wrestling [93:34] everybody I can right hand until people [93:36] are kind of bored and then I'll do some [93:37] left-hand work. But the right is the [93:38] priority. And the same thing when I do [93:40] my homework in the in the basement, I'm [93:43] doing like 85 to 90% work on the right [93:47] and maybe like just 10% like just, you [93:49] know, just for timing and whatever on [93:50] the left. Yeah. [93:52] >> Wow. [93:53] >> Yeah. Yeah. Super specialized. Yeah. [93:55] >> Yeah. It's It's insane. [93:57] >> I I was I'm sorry. Uh, I was so worried [94:00] like that I was going to develop like [94:03] back issues, imbalance issues. [94:05] >> Yeah. [94:06] >> None of that ever happened. [94:07] >> Huh. [94:08] >> Yeah. [94:08] >> Guys do that from archery. They develop [94:11] imbalance issues just from pulling a bow [94:13] one-sided. Like my friend Evan, he got a [94:15] left-handed bow just so he could [94:17] practice left-handed as well because he [94:20] felt like it would balance them out. [94:21] >> Right. I think balance is overrated. [94:24] >> Really? [94:24] >> Yeah. I think balance is a nice concept [94:28] for like some imaginary world that you [94:32] live in. But if I live in a world where [94:35] I'm trying to win a world title [94:37] right-handed, then I need to let my body [94:39] know that this is what I'm getting ready [94:40] for and not confuse it. [94:41] >> There's an interesting comparison in [94:43] jiu-jitsu because there's a lot of guys [94:44] that have like a very strong right side [94:46] attack. [94:47] >> Like Eddie Bravo for instance. Eddie [94:49] Bravo's attack is almost always on the [94:51] right side of the body. Obviously, he [94:52] has a black belt level attack on the [94:54] left, but his right side attack is where [94:56] he puts all his energy to and his [94:59] philosophy was along those same lines. [95:01] If you just develop this one side, like [95:04] so lethal. [95:05] >> Yeah. I think that um so much is about, [95:09] you know, being able to have an [95:10] icebreaker, you know, something that [95:12] stops a match or wins you the match. And [95:16] at at a world level, it's it's [95:18] everything. Like if you can if you can [95:20] bring something from a 99 to 100, you [95:23] know, but it takes 15 points off your [95:25] left, that's a trade that a lot of [95:27] people are willing to make. You know, if [95:28] I can do anything to push my right a [95:31] level up, if it let makes me, you know, [95:34] wither away in my left, [95:37] good trade. [95:38] >> One of the things that I watched that I [95:39] thought was really interesting, I've [95:40] been watching a lot of uh these rock [95:43] climbers and their ridiculous grip [95:45] strength. Yeah, [95:46] >> a lot of these guys. There's that cat [95:47] that has a YouTube channel. I know [95:49] you've been on it. Magnus. Magnus. [95:50] Magnus. How do you say his last name? [95:52] Midbow. Midbow. And he had that one dude [95:55] who's just a super freak. [95:56] >> Eve Grall. [95:57] >> Yes. [95:58] >> He trains with me. [95:59] >> Okay. That guy went right into arm [96:02] wrestling and was [ __ ] people up [96:04] >> right away, [96:04] >> which is crazy. Which makes me think [96:07] that maybe that kind of specialized [96:09] training is like a cheat code. [96:11] >> It's close. It's close. Yeah. Right. [96:14] That guy also has like enormous legs [96:16] sized forearms. [96:18] >> Eve Grall. [96:19] >> See, you can find him training with [96:21] Magnus because they're in uh Eve's [96:24] basement where he does all of his [96:25] training and he's doing these like how [96:27] many millimeters is the holes? [96:28] >> Two. [96:29] >> Okay. So, he's doing two millimeter [96:31] holes with his fingers where he's [96:32] hanging. [96:33] >> Yeah. [96:33] >> I'm I'm telling you, it makes no sense. [96:36] >> He's such a freak. [96:37] >> It makes zero sense. Um like Magnus is [96:41] is super stud. Okay. Magnus is like [96:43] worldle climber. Eve when it comes to [96:46] the strength component of climbing, it's [96:49] it doesn't even make strength. I don't [96:51] even understand how it's how anybody [96:53] could even do it. Like it's like credit [96:55] card. [96:56] >> He can do pull-ups off of a credit card. [96:59] >> That's insane. [97:00] >> Yeah. [97:00] >> How [97:01] >> I I I don't know. I don't know how he [97:02] does it. It doesn't And like he has like [97:05] rounded surfaces where there is nothing [97:08] to bite on. Right there. There's [97:10] nothing. So, he's just chalking up his [97:12] fingers and he hangs off of those. I [97:14] want to see that. [97:15] >> There's nothing there. I I I don't know [97:16] how he does it. Um there's nothing to [97:19] bite. There's nothing. And he's pulling [97:21] up off. I I can't [snorts] even [97:23] understand how he does it. So, he came [97:26] into arm wrestling um and he's like 150 [97:29] lbs. And [97:30] >> but it's 40 lbs of his forearms. [97:33] >> So, we have a tournament in in Ottawa [97:35] where we both live. It's called the [97:37] Ottawa Open. And it attracts the [97:40] strongest dudes in the region. To win [97:41] the Ottawa Open is is really tough. He [97:44] won it his first year after arm [97:45] wrestling six six weeks. [97:47] >> What? [97:47] >> Yeah. [97:49] >> He's completely and he weighs what? [97:52] >> 150 lbs. [97:53] >> Oh my god. Eve Grall is a complete [97:56] weirdo. Uh I I've never in my life met [98:00] somebody who can do the stuff with grip [98:02] that he can do. [98:03] >> And it's all that training that he's [98:04] doing. He's doing all this insane grip [98:06] training. Yeah. Which makes me think [98:08] like what if you did that stuff? [98:10] >> Yeah. [98:12] Yes. Let me tell you, as good as Eve is [98:14] now, he's gonna get even better. Okay. [98:17] >> I can only imagine. [98:18] >> Yeah. Nobody is touching Eve's fingers. [98:22] But [98:24] like I talked about earlier. So if you [98:26] kind of relate it to climbing. Okay. Can [98:29] you show me some stuff with that guy [98:31] doing things? Well, I was trying to find [98:32] that one. [98:33] >> But just show me some of the other [98:34] freakish things he does cuz he could [98:36] pick up things from the ground that [98:37] nobody could pick up. [98:38] >> Yeah, he does grip competition, too. So, [98:40] so that's another world that's closely [98:42] tied to arm wrestling is the grip [98:44] championships, [98:45] >> right? Where they're just It's like [98:46] powerlifting for grip, [98:48] >> right? [98:48] >> Yeah. And he's the best at that, too. [98:50] >> Yeah. [98:51] >> It's just nuts, man. [98:52] >> Yeah. It's really nuts. Yeah. So, there [98:54] is a high degree of crossover, right? [98:56] There there is. But there are slight [98:59] intricacies like a kind of way to think [99:02] about it in climbing. If you have a [99:03] great grip, you are able to climb the [99:06] wall. Okay. But in actual arm wrestling, [99:11] you actually don't want to be the [99:12] climber. You want to be the wall. Right. [99:16] Right. [99:17] >> You want to make it hard for the other [99:18] person's grip. [99:20] >> You don't necessarily He's capable of [99:22] climbing any wall. Okay. But once he [99:24] figures out how to be the wall instead, [99:27] he's going to be so so difficult. [99:29] [snorts] [99:30] >> It's fun to work with him. Our club in [99:32] Ottawa, we have like super freaks now. [99:34] We have all these new guys with [99:36] ridiculous potential. We got a guy come [99:37] in who's bigger than Brian Shaw. Did you [99:40] ask this? Can you show me some video of [99:41] this guy? [99:42] >> He wasn't doing anything there. He was [99:43] like, [99:43] >> there's a bunch, [99:44] >> right? [99:44] >> And I'm on not his channel, too. I'm [99:46] like it's bouncing back in between that [99:49] >> doing fat grip one arm chin-ups. Did you [99:52] see the uh the Thomas Inch? [99:55] >> You know, see see the Thomas inch on the [99:57] left. [99:57] >> Yes. [99:57] >> Right. Nobody picks up the Thomas inch [99:59] when they're 150, [100:01] >> you know? [100:01] >> That's nuts. [100:02] >> That's crazy. [100:04] >> Like this kind of grip is just insane. [100:06] Oh my god, that's crazy. He's pinch [100:08] gripping. [100:09] >> Yeah. [100:09] >> And that guy Magnus is strong as [ __ ] [100:11] too. Like I saw a video of him training [100:13] with Eddie Hall. [100:14] >> Crazy strong. [100:15] >> And he's doing these one arm rows with [100:17] like 180 lbs on each side. And I'm like, [100:19] that is bananas. cuz he's not a big guy. [100:22] >> No, but he's ridiculously strong as [100:24] well. And that [100:25] >> and even him, he's dwarfed by this guy's [100:28] strength. Yeah. Which is crazy. [100:30] >> Yeah. Eve is considered the strongest [100:31] climber in the world. [100:34] >> And did you ask him when he started this [100:36] and how he got that strong? [100:38] >> I've talked to Eve a lot about his [100:40] training. He's so detailed. Like the way [100:44] he trains is very interesting, very [100:46] progressive, very science-based. Um, [100:49] >> look at those forearms. That's bonkers. [100:52] >> Yeah. Yeah. Eve is uh and and he's an [100:56] artist, too. He makes masks. [100:58] >> Masks. [100:58] >> Yeah. You know, like movie movie masks [101:00] like [101:01] >> Oh, wow. [101:01] >> Yeah. That's that's his main job. He he [101:03] makes masks and he and he can climb [101:06] anything. [laughter] Yeah. He's super [101:09] cool guy. Yeah. [101:10] >> Wow. Well, it just so seeing that though [101:13] makes me think if a guy is that small [101:15] and he has that kind of grip strength [101:17] that that has to be a massive factor. [101:20] >> It is [101:20] >> in your ability to arm wrestle. So why [101:22] wouldn't everybody do that? If a guy is [101:24] 150 pounds that he could do that [ __ ] [101:27] and he's doing it with two arms. I mean [101:29] both of his arms are super jacked. [101:32] >> There are levels of specialization, [101:34] >> right? Do you think it's maybe too late [101:37] for you to do what he's doing because [101:39] he's been doing this for decades and [101:41] decades? [101:43] >> I believe that he [101:46] is so good at all his grip work and his [101:49] grip work [clears throat] is so high and [101:51] it does have a lot of crossover. It [101:53] does. Would I want that strength? Yes, [101:55] of course. I just think that the motions [101:58] that I'm doing are actually even more [102:00] dangerous for the sport of arm [102:01] wrestling. Like if I was to advise Eve, [102:04] and I do I talk to Eve like every week, [102:07] um I tell Eve, you know, the way he's [102:09] going to progress his game is by [102:11] probably doing these more precise [102:13] movements to become the wall, you know, [102:14] to become the thing that's hard to hold [102:16] on to, right? [102:17] >> He has an amazing ability to hold on to [102:19] anybody. Okay? And that's going to take [102:21] him really, really far in the sport. Uh, [102:24] but I think that as he's Eve, I've told [102:28] him he he's older in terms of entry, but [102:32] he has world championship potential, you [102:34] know? He's less than a year in the [102:36] sport. [102:37] >> Wow. [102:38] >> Yeah. He's been arm wrestling since like [102:39] last November. [102:41] Yeah. Give him give him like a uh give [102:44] him like a a year or two or three and [102:47] he's going to be knocking on the North [102:48] American like, you know, top pro level. [102:52] >> Wow. [102:52] >> Yeah. It won't take him long. Yeah, he's [102:54] he's a freak for one and he's super [102:56] smart and arm wrestling is a very nice [102:59] crossover for climbers because so many [103:01] of the strengths are similar. [103:02] >> Really similar. [103:04] >> Um, [103:04] >> and when you say so, he's very [103:06] scientific about his training. Like what [103:08] does he do? [103:09] >> The thing that struck me when I spoke to [103:11] him about his training is he kind of [103:13] does testing. I found that very very [103:16] different from the way I train. Uh, so [103:18] before he does his workout, he does [103:21] these tests like with his grip and he [103:23] like says how easy or hard they are and [103:25] if and if he's not feeling right, he [103:28] won't do the training. So he'll continue [103:30] to rest. He'll abort a training session [103:32] because it doesn't feel right. [103:33] >> Well, [103:34] >> yeah. Yeah. And I and I like I'm doing [103:36] it no matter [103:38] >> interesting. [103:38] >> Yeah. Look at whatever I've seen it. [103:40] It's very detailed. It's um [103:43] >> And where did he learn this from? [103:45] I think he's he's crazy. He loves armor. [103:49] Sorry. He loves he loves climbing and I [103:51] think he's just obsessed and I think he [103:53] probably digests everything. I probably [103:56] I think he's probably studies everything [103:57] about climbing and strength and he just [103:59] put it all together. [104:01] >> So, what is he doing here? [104:02] >> It looks like a static wrist uh test. [104:05] Looks like he's measuring it through a a [104:08] weight to see how much in a static [104:10] capacity he can generate. [snorts] [104:13] >> Wow. [104:14] >> Yeah. pushing isometrics for arm [104:16] wrestling. [104:16] >> Yeah. [104:17] >> So, all just wrist curling ability. [104:20] >> Isometric. [104:21] >> Yeah. Maximum output, which is really [104:24] the main strength that arm wrestlers [104:27] need. That locked isometric or even [104:29] negative strength. [104:31] >> Um, and all his squeezing. [104:35] >> That's crazy. [104:36] >> Yeah. Yeah. He's very special. [104:39] >> That is crazy. [104:42] >> Yeah. So, that's the thing. He's got all [104:44] these charts. [104:46] >> And so he's doing this all himself [104:48] because there's probably no one that [104:50] could teach him this stuff. [104:52] >> Yeah. [104:52] >> Cuz he's probably at the top of the food [104:54] chain with this. [104:55] >> Yeah. [104:56] >> Wow. [104:57] >> Yeah. [104:59] >> Yeah. He's a gift to have come around. [105:01] We We love that. We love that he we've [105:04] kind of got him cuz uh [105:06] >> Oh, I'm sure. Because when you get a [105:08] freak like that like out of nowhere, [105:12] >> what is he doing here? [105:13] >> Right. So, he's working his curls and [105:14] he's adding resistance through the [105:16] elastic. So, you can see he's This is [105:19] not a climber exercise, I don't think, [105:20] anymore. He's really switching, you [105:23] know. I think I think he's got the bug. [105:26] [laughter] [105:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. [sighs and gasps] [105:29] >> Wow. [105:30] >> It won't be long. It won't be long. [105:32] He'll be at East versus West for a 70 [105:34] kilo world title. [105:35] >> Well, it's such a an enormous advantage [105:38] to have these [ __ ] gigantic forearms [105:40] and insane strength. [105:42] >> Yeah. And it's just so weird that you [105:44] could get these guys that are so [105:46] physically small that are so damn [105:48] strong. Like when Magnus was doing rows, [105:51] you're like, where's the force coming [105:53] from? You have 150 lb, 160lb body, and [105:57] you're doing these 180 lb single arm [106:00] rows. [106:01] >> Yeah. [106:01] >> Like where's the force coming from? Like [106:04] where's the is it tendon strength? Is it [106:07] where's the tissue? Right? Like you look [106:09] at Eddie Hall, you're like, "Okay, it [106:10] makes sense that that guy could lift [106:12] that much weight. He's massive." [106:13] >> Yeah. [106:13] >> This guy's not massive. If you saw him [106:16] in a t-shirt, you wouldn't even unless [106:18] you looked at his forearms, you wouldn't [106:19] even think he was strong. [106:20] >> You' say, "Oh, it probably runs or [106:22] something." Looks like a normal guy that [106:24] spit. He doesn't look like a guy who can [106:26] do 180 lb one- arm rows. So, what what [106:31] is that? How do you do that? [106:32] >> Where's it coming from? [106:34] >> Yeah. I think that for I think that arm [106:37] wrestlers, climbers, a lot of athletes, [106:39] fighters too, they start to recognize [106:42] the value of the hand. You know, uh, a [106:45] lot of guys, you know, in the in the [106:47] communities like strongman, [106:49] powerlifting, other strength [106:51] disciplines, they get immense strength [106:54] through their body and through their [106:55] shoulders and different parts that by [106:58] the time it goes through the chain, [107:00] through the elbow, through the wrist, [107:01] into the fingers, only a small portion [107:04] of that is able to get managed, [107:06] >> right? I see that with guys when they [107:08] work out with straps. I've never used [107:10] straps, right? Cuz to me with jiu-jitsu, [107:13] grip is so important. I never wanted to [107:15] rely only on my muscles and not have a [107:17] strong grip. Like it didn't make any [107:19] sense to me. [107:20] >> In so many functional things, the hand [107:23] is the shortcoming. [107:24] >> Or the feet. [107:25] >> Or the feet. [107:26] >> Yeah. I talked to Nick Kersonen once [107:27] who's a strength and conditioning [107:29] trainer and I said, "What do you think [107:31] is like the number one thing that [107:33] fighters uh lack on?" He said, "Foot [107:35] strength." Yeah. [107:36] >> I said, "Foot strength." He goes, "Yeah, [107:38] foot strength." Because it once foot [107:40] strength breaks down, everything breaks [107:42] down. Your movement breaks down, your [107:43] power breaks down, your ability to get [107:45] out of the way of things, the ability to [107:47] close the distance. [107:48] >> Yeah, [107:49] >> there's a score on the grip strength. [107:50] >> What is it? What did he get? [107:51] [clears throat] [107:51] >> 160. [107:52] >> Oh, that's crazy. I got more than him. [107:54] >> Yeah, he just did it really hard, too. [107:56] >> That's crazy. But that makes sense. I'm [107:58] 200 lb, right? [108:00] >> But it's it's it's a chain and grip is a [108:04] part of the functional hand chain, [108:06] right? you know, [108:07] >> well, it's clearly he's way stronger [108:09] than me with Rose. [108:11] >> The the interesting thing with grip is [108:14] grip is only a small part of control. [108:18] Oh, this guy uh what's that guy's name? [108:20] He's he's actually the best Andra, [108:22] right? [108:23] >> What did he get? [108:23] >> He's actually the best climber in the [108:25] world right now. [108:25] >> 161. Same thing. [108:28] >> Yeah, I saw. [108:28] >> Okay. That's crazy. [108:30] >> Yeah. [108:30] >> Derrick Lewis got 218. [108:32] >> Derrick Lewis, the guy who fights in the [108:34] UFC and he did it casually. [108:36] >> Yeah. He just I mean Derrick's got giant [108:38] paws like catcher Smith paws. [108:41] >> Yeah. [108:41] >> And he he pulled 218. He got higher than [108:43] anybody. And it didn't even look like he [108:44] was trying. [108:45] >> The guy I just arm wrestled I think had [108:47] the world record for for some time. [108:49] Vitali Lettin. [108:50] >> What was that? [108:51] >> I don't know what the number is. It was [108:52] but I know he had the world record. [108:54] Vitali Lettin. He So I I'm actually not [108:58] big on grip. I'm not [109:00] >> really [109:00] >> I'm not. But most people are. [109:02] >> There's a guy that I follow on [109:04] Instagram, Jamie. Pull him up. His name [109:06] is Michael Eert and 351. [109:09] >> Boom. [109:10] >> Is that Vitali? [109:11] >> Yeah. [109:11] >> Yeah. [109:12] >> Oh my god. [109:14] >> So listen. So listen. So mine is [109:16] probably like 70 lbs, but I beat him. [109:19] >> Wait a minute. You You don't [109:20] >> No. No. No. It's terrible. [109:21] >> No. No. [109:22] >> I'm crippled. [109:23] >> Shut the [ __ ] up. [109:23] >> I'm telling you. There's no way I [109:26] squeeze stronger. Yeah, you do. That's [109:27] not possible. You probably do. [109:28] >> That is literally not possible. I'm [109:30] telling you. [109:30] >> Look at the size of this guy. [109:31] >> Yeah. He's like 6'9. Like he's about [109:34] three. Yeah. [laughter] [109:36] Yeah. Yeah. [109:36] >> That is so crazy. 154 kg is so bananas. [109:41] >> Yeah. [109:41] >> That's so strong. You can only do 70. [109:44] That doesn't make any sense. [109:45] >> When I was younger, I could do like [109:47] eight or nine reps of the number three [109:49] Captains of Crush. [109:51] >> Wow. I have this sucker here on the [109:53] table. [109:54] >> I don't know what [clears throat] this [109:55] is. You tell me. Squeeze it. Tell me [109:56] what you think. [109:57] >> Oh my god. [109:59] >> 200 lb. So, this isn't a Captain the [110:01] Crush. This is a [110:02] >> I think it is. It's not. No, I bought [110:04] those. They just have a number on the [110:06] bottom. [110:06] >> Can't do it, Joe. Can't I can't do it. [110:11] >> I do that all day long, [110:12] >> man. You should come and arm wrestle [110:13] with us. [110:14] >> No, I could beat people who suck. [110:16] [laughter] [110:17] >> Grip is interesting. Okay, grip is a [110:19] part of control, but so much of the [110:22] control through your hand has to do with [110:24] the ability to control the angles. You [110:26] know, can you control this way, this [110:27] way, this way, this way? You know, can [110:29] you spin? You know, the grip is like the [110:32] final inflection point. It's the final [110:35] piece to add, [110:36] >> right? [110:36] >> Yeah. [110:37] >> Well, I understand that it's not [110:38] everything. I It's a thing that I've [110:39] been obsessed with lately because I'm [110:41] not strong at it. [110:42] >> Grip's beautiful. [110:43] >> So, this 162 kg [110:47] this guy Michael Eert on uh Instagram, [110:50] he's a guy that I follow and he has all [110:53] these grip strength tutorials. He's a [110:55] marine and I guess has a that's him. and [110:58] he can do 220. And he doesn't look like [111:01] a very big guy either, but he does like [111:02] crazy one- arm pull-ups and and he has [111:05] massive forearms, but like look at his [111:07] thing right there. [111:08] >> This thing I don't see. [111:10] >> Uh there's a thing below it. You see [111:11] numbers. There it is. [111:14] >> Oh, so this is what he's lifting. This [111:16] is he's doing this for chin-ups. [111:19] >> But he has uh the grip strength thing. [111:23] The really good one is the one that has [111:25] knurled metal. It has very little play [111:27] in it. And so you get a real accurate. [111:30] He said it's the most accurate one of [111:32] all of them. Um, gold. That one right [111:34] there. See it says 119. So I think [111:37] that's 119 kilograms. [111:44] >> Hand. [111:46] >> Yeah. [111:47] >> What is that? 262. So he could do 262. [111:51] And he's not a very big guy. So he does [111:54] 100 pounds more than me. And he's not a [111:56] big guy. Yeah. [111:58] >> I mean, when you're looking at him, [111:59] >> but he does crazy like chinup stuff. [112:03] 256. That's [ __ ] nuts. [112:06] >> So, his It's uh Michael Eert. Uh [112:12] >> Elart. [112:13] Yeah. [112:14] >> No, Eert. E E C K E R T. E C K E R T. [112:19] So, it's Michael Eert uh_fitit on [112:22] Instagram. And uh this guy's uh turned [112:25] me on to a bunch of stuff. told me stuff [112:27] to get and what to work out with. But I [112:30] just I'm blown away because I I look at [112:32] him and I go, "Well, you're not that [112:34] big." That's what's crazy. Like, you [112:36] look at his [112:37] >> forearms are obviously very big, very [112:39] strong, but he's not like this massive [112:41] guy. Like, who's that giant Russian cat [112:43] that Yeah, [112:45] >> boy. [112:47] >> He's He's something real. [112:48] >> That makes If that guy pulled 262, I go, [112:51] "Okay, that makes sense." But I look at [112:53] Michael and I'm like, he's not the [112:55] biggest guy in the world, but he does so [112:58] much grip stuff. [113:00] >> Yeah. We're praying for Smay to come [113:02] into the sport. [113:03] >> Oh my god. [113:04] >> Yeah, [113:04] >> that guy's a [ __ ] freak. [113:07] >> Freakiest. Not just freak, freakyest. [113:10] >> Yeah. Yeah. [113:10] >> How is he alive? Like, you got to think [113:13] there's not a lot of time on that [113:14] hourglass. [113:16] [snorts] [113:16] >> Live hard, die fast. [113:18] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's pushing. There [113:20] he is. [113:21] >> Yeah. [laughter] [113:22] But um yeah, [snorts] I mean all these [113:25] strengths for our sport, they all add [113:28] together. [113:29] >> His hands. [screaming] Look at his [113:30] [ __ ] hands. [113:32] >> They don't even look real. [113:34] >> Oh, he's [113:36] >> and he's open about all the sauce that [113:38] he's on. He's on everything. [113:40] >> I mean, someone who was in here that was [113:42] explaining how much uh growth hormone he [113:44] takes. [113:45] >> I heard he debunked that. [113:47] >> Oh, really? I I saw a video where he [113:49] said it wasn't true, [113:50] >> but I have no idea [113:52] >> that he wasn't taking that much. [113:53] >> Yeah. I mean, [113:54] >> someone was saying he was taking [113:56] >> 100 or something. [113:56] >> Some crazy thing like 10 units of growth [113:58] a day. [113:59] >> I No, I heard it was 100 [114:00] >> 100 units. [114:01] >> Yeah, I heard it was like [114:02] >> Well, that doesn't even make that seems [114:04] like you would just grow. You would just [114:06] become a giant. Like that's like a [114:07] pituitary disorder, right? [114:09] >> Yeah. More than [114:10] >> Right. Cuz that's what you're getting. [114:12] >> It's a lot. [114:14] >> Clearly, he's done a bunch of stuff [114:16] though. I mean, if you see him when he [114:17] was younger, he looked like a normal [114:18] athlete. [114:19] >> I never saw him normal. I mean, I've [114:21] been following him for probably like six [114:22] or seven years. [114:24] >> Yeah. [114:24] >> I mean, I think the first time I saw [114:25] him, he was doing chin-ups with like 250 [114:28] lbs strapped to him, [114:30] >> you know? I think that's the first time [114:31] I saw him. [114:32] >> Uh, he's not normal. [114:33] >> Yeah. Look at his [ __ ] side. So, the [114:36] is the left size. Who's What's the left [114:38] >> when he's 17? [114:39] >> Yeah. I mean, he was Look at that's not [114:41] a se that's not a normal 17-year-old. [114:43] No, clearly he's pretty jacked. But I [114:46] that makes sense. Like that guy on the [114:48] left makes sense. Like I've seen guys [114:49] like that before. 17. No, but go to that [114:52] photo again. But the guy on the right, [114:55] he looks like the Incredible Hulk. Like [114:57] he looks like a superhero. Like it [114:59] doesn't look like a real human being. [115:01] Like the size of his forearms, the size [115:03] of his biceps. That doesn't look like a [115:06] regular human being. It looks like a [115:08] complete freak of nature or science. [115:10] >> And he's training for arm wrestling. I [115:12] could only imagine. So he's like, if you [115:15] follow his Insta or whatever, he's doing [115:17] the arm wrestling lifts like the [115:18] pronation and his lifting is already at [115:22] a level of like world world. [115:24] >> Go to his Instagram, please. [115:25] >> I was trying to [115:26] >> It's his Instagram got taken down. So [115:28] it's like some new That's right. He [115:30] didn't have it last. [115:31] >> Why'd it get taken down? [115:32] >> I don't know. I don't know. But I heard [115:34] it was taken down, but he does have a [115:36] new one. Whether it's his or it's a fan [115:38] one. I know. I just saw it yesterday. [115:39] Why would they take down his Instagram? [115:42] >> Yeah, the only one I could find is this. [115:44] It's like SM of official and it's 27 [115:47] weeks ago. There's a tag and that's all [115:48] that. [115:49] >> But no, there is there I know cuz I saw [115:51] it like yesterday. [115:52] >> Oh, so it's gone. The page is gone. [115:55] >> There's some fan page where he's doing [115:57] pronation lifts. [115:59] >> What the [ __ ] What is wrong? Why would [116:01] they take this guy's Instagram down [116:04] >> cuz he's inspiring people to turn into [116:07] monsters? Do you think that's what it [116:09] is? I [116:09] >> I don't know. I don't know. There. This [116:11] is what I'm talking about. See, now this [116:13] is a much more normal like for arm [116:16] wrestling. This is actually more [116:18] functional than anything through the [116:19] grip, I think. [116:21] >> So, this is all pronation. [116:22] >> That's pronation. [116:23] >> Turning the wrist, [116:24] >> lifting insane weight. [116:26] >> Yeah. And just based off of that [116:28] information that I see there, I already [116:30] know. [116:31] >> Click on that one that you got your [116:32] Yeah. [ __ ] size of this guy. [116:35] >> Yeah. That is so crazy. Explosive jumps. [116:39] >> Yeah. [116:40] >> And the the crazy thing about him is [116:42] he's not competing in anything, [116:46] >> right? [116:46] >> But I think that this is a guy who's [116:49] just going to show up whether it's in [116:51] anything. He gets to pick and he's [116:54] probably going to show up at like a [116:56] world level [116:58] >> like anything like what besides [117:00] >> I'd say anything whether powerlifting, [117:02] right? [117:03] >> Strong man. Um I I'd be terrified if he [117:06] even got to like blue belt in [117:08] >> Oh my god. [117:09] >> Like what are you gonna do? [117:09] >> What are you gonna do? How much does he [117:11] weigh? [117:11] >> I think like 340 350 [117:13] >> 340 and preposterous strength. Like [117:15] >> yeah, [117:16] >> strength, you know, Mark Coleman always [117:18] used to say that strength is a skill. [117:20] And there's something to to that because [117:22] if you are that strong, there's only so [117:24] much you can do with that guy's body. [117:26] >> Yeah. [117:26] >> Especially if he developed actual skills [117:28] and understanding of leverage positions. [117:31] >> There you go. Even just the base [117:32] movement patterns that are really [117:34] >> 52 Lee. [117:38] >> He was supposed to pull there was a [117:40] proposal for him to pull one of our guys [117:42] called Leonitis Arona. He [117:44] >> What a great name. [117:45] >> Yeah, [laughter] it's a German guy. He [117:47] just competed against Brian Shaw like [117:49] six weeks ago. He beat Brian. [117:51] >> What? Yeah. [117:51] >> Someone beat Brian Shaw in an arm [117:53] wrestling match. [117:55] >> Leonitis, uh, young German champion. Uh, [117:58] they competed in Germany. It was a great [118:00] fight. Big is Leonitis. [118:02] >> Leonitis is pretty awesome. Okay. [118:04] Leonitis. [118:04] >> This is Leonitis and Brian Shaw. [118:06] >> Yeah. Yeah. [118:08] >> Oh my goodness. [118:10] That is crazy. [118:12] >> Yeah. Right. And nobody's got a staring [118:14] grip than Brian either. Brian's grip is [118:16] completely wild. But [118:17] >> seeing someone beat Brian Shaw in [118:18] anything physical seems ridiculous. It [118:21] doesn't even make sense. [118:22] >> How much does this guy weigh? [118:24] >> He like 285 when he's in good shape. But [118:27] again, stupid strength. He's like a [118:30] bodybuilder/arm [118:32] wrestler. He's not a [118:34] >> picture of me reacting. [118:36] [laughter] [118:38] >> Yeah. He's been in the sport like, [118:40] >> "Oh my god, he's going to curl a dude." [118:41] >> Yeah. [laughter] [118:44] >> Yeah. Crazy strength. [118:46] >> Oh my god. He's massive. [118:47] >> Massive. [118:49] >> I just can't believe that he beat Brian [118:50] Shaw. That is nuts. [118:52] >> And that's where skill comes in. [118:53] >> Well, because Brian Shaw is 100 pounds [118:54] heavier than him. [118:55] >> Yeah. But it's it's levels, you know, [118:57] like it's and that's the thing. Like arm [118:59] wrestling has enough technique to it. [119:01] It's not just how strong you are. Look [119:02] at you can look at me, okay? [119:04] >> I'm not on any of these guys' levels. [119:07] They're all stronger than me, but I'm [119:09] the number two in the world in the open [119:10] division. [119:12] >> Everybody in the top 50 is stronger than [119:14] me, you know, but there's a there's a [119:16] high degree. That's a great picture. [119:18] >> Wow. That is crazy. [119:21] >> The size difference is so massive. But [119:23] I'll tell you, Brian probably has a [119:26] higher potential than Leonitis, right? [119:28] Brian's been arm wrestling less than two [119:29] years, [119:30] >> right? And Leonitis has been arm [119:32] wrestling. [119:33] >> Okay. [119:33] >> Yeah. So, [119:34] >> so there's a lot of technique to it. [119:35] >> There's a ton of technique [119:36] >> and a lot of just repetition, [119:38] understanding the positions, where to [119:40] go, what to do, how to hold. [119:42] >> Yeah. [119:43] >> Miniature martial art. [119:45] >> Interesting. Yeah. [119:46] >> Makes sense. Yeah. Because there's some [119:48] people that are not that. Like Marcelo [119:49] Garcia, for instance, not not a [119:51] physically imposing guy. has the [119:53] craziest squeeze, [119:54] >> right? [119:55] >> Like there's something about a squeeze, [119:57] like learning a position over and over [119:59] and over again, [120:01] fine-tuning it. That's what's [120:03] interesting about power in general. It's [120:05] like the repetition of movement creates [120:08] more power. [120:09] >> Yeah. [120:09] >> And some of it is genetic, but some of [120:11] it is also just fine-tuning that motion [120:15] to just this like perfect chain of [120:17] energy from the floor to the strike. And [120:21] it's and it's two of us, [120:23] >> you know, and it's that interaction. [120:25] It's what you're doing, what I'm doing. [120:27] >> And the more you're doing it, the more [120:29] you understand what to do and when to do [120:31] it and what's happening and how to [120:33] counter it and when to push, when to [120:35] pull, when to hit the gas [120:37] >> and somebody's leading the dance [120:39] >> and someone's following [120:41] >> and the efficiency just changes very [120:43] quickly and before you know it, you're [120:44] gassed out. [120:45] >> I'm sure you're aware of that guy in [120:47] Australia, that Tom Havlin. [120:48] >> Tom Han. [120:49] >> Yeah. [120:51] He's another one. [120:51] >> That's another one who's doing this [120:53] stuff in his backyard with a [ __ ] [120:55] shirt on and jeans and work boots. [120:57] >> Yeah. [120:57] >> And all the images, most of them are [121:00] just his back. [121:01] >> Yeah. [121:02] >> Awesome. He's another one. He's another [121:05] one of these strength giants that lives [121:06] out there that everybody kind of wants [121:08] to pull in. I I message Tom every once [121:11] in a while like, "Dude, when are you [121:13] coming in arm wrestling? When are you [121:14] coming in?" [121:14] >> And what did he say? [121:15] >> Yeah, I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic. [121:19] What? Is he interested? [121:20] >> I think so. [121:21] >> Well, he's also crazy lean, too, which [121:23] is really weird. [121:24] >> He's a strange character. [121:25] >> Oh, the strangest because like this is [121:27] most of his images are his back. [121:30] >> Yeah. [121:31] >> Which I don't understand why he's doing [121:32] that. [121:33] >> Well, I had the theory that he was an SF [121:35] guy. [121:36] >> You know, I I had the theory that he [121:38] belongs to some organization that [121:40] requires him to be discreet, [121:42] >> but there are photos of him. [121:44] >> Yeah. Not many. [121:45] >> There's But there's plenty where you [121:46] could see his face. [121:47] >> Yes. But he doesn't go around [121:49] broadcasting it too much, does he? I [121:51] don't know. Look at I I don't know what [121:52] he is. I I've I've asked and guys say [121:54] he's not. I don't know what the deal is, [121:56] but for whatever reason, and he could, [121:59] right? This is a guy who could probably [122:00] again go to any one of the strength [122:02] disciplines and compete happily. Yeah, [122:04] >> cuz he's almost 400 lb. He's 6'8. [122:08] >> Yeah. [122:09] >> And [ __ ] shredded. [122:12] See if you could find some of the [122:13] images. There are images on this page of [122:15] him with his shirt off doing stuff where [122:17] he's like walking with, you know, doing [122:19] like farmer carries there. So, there's [122:22] some images of him with his shirt off. [122:23] Yeah. Like there he is. [122:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. He's he's a he's a Brian [122:28] Shaw type. He's a He's a Smay type, you [122:32] know, just where the baseline level of [122:34] strength, [122:34] >> but looks more athletic than those guys. [122:38] Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's [122:39] it's He's not as massive. He's massive, [122:43] but he looks massive in a more mobile [122:45] way. [sighs] [122:47] >> Do you know what I'm saying? [122:48] >> I do, but you know, Brian Shaw won [122:50] strong man and like there's a lot of [122:52] athleticism in strongman. [122:54] >> Oh, for sure. I'm not saying there's [122:55] not. I mean, but Brian Shaw looks like [122:58] an ape. He looks like a [laughter] giant [123:00] ape, whereas this guy looks like a super [123:02] athlete. [123:03] >> He does. [123:03] >> You know, he looks like Look like Look [123:04] at that image of him with his shirt off [123:06] on the far right. Like he's shredded. [123:08] >> Yeah. [123:09] >> He looks different. [123:10] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [123:12] >> And he it seems like he's just working [123:15] on his strength. [123:17] >> He's just like constantly [123:18] >> Yeah. [123:19] >> Look at his [ __ ] forearm muscles. [123:21] Like what the [ __ ] is going on with the [123:23] the top of the forearm where it meets [123:25] the bicep? What the [ __ ] is that? [123:27] >> Tom, if you're watching this, come to [123:29] East versus West, buddy. We love you. We [123:31] love you. [123:31] >> Has he ever done anything? Yeah. [123:33] >> Any arm wrestling stuff? Yeah, I know he [123:35] has because uh so down in Australia, the [123:37] the president there, Phil Rasmmanson, um [123:40] he's good friends with him and I know [123:43] that they're arm wrestling a little bit, [123:44] but yeah, there's something with him [123:45] where he doesn't kind of he doesn't want [123:47] to kind of show up. I think I don't know [123:49] what it is with some of these people [123:50] where they they have this amazing [123:53] ability, but they don't really pop. You [123:56] know, um do you know who Eric Spot is? [123:58] >> No. [123:59] >> Eric Spot is a guy out of Vegas. um [124:02] former uh number one in the world bench [124:04] guy, okay? Like he broke the world [124:06] record for bench. Okay. But he didn't go [124:09] to a powerlifting meet until he could [124:11] break the record. He didn't even [124:12] [laughter] show up. He just showed up [124:14] and he beat the world. He was he was [124:15] doing the world record in his basement. [124:17] >> Wow. [124:18] >> And and everybody's like, "Yo, Eric, why [124:20] don't you go and make it legit?" [124:22] >> You know, but these guys exist out [124:24] there. these guys in their basements or, [124:26] you know, wherever they're living and [124:28] they and they for whatever reason that [124:30] they don't show up until they're the [124:32] best. Yeah. Eric, this guy. Yeah. And [124:37] he's an amazing arm wrestler, too. Same [124:39] theory, though. Like, it was hard to get [124:41] him into competition, but I I personally [124:44] know that he's like one of the strongest [124:45] arm wrestlers. Um, but he doesn't [124:48] compete. [124:49] >> Doesn't compete. Yeah. Yeah. [124:52] >> Yeah. Strength's amazing, man. It's It's [124:54] fun to chase strength. [124:56] >> It's not everything in your sport, [124:58] though, which is interesting. [125:00] >> Yeah. Strength, combat. So, we're we're [125:02] a combat sport that relies heavily on [125:04] strength. [125:05] >> Yeah. [125:06] >> It's interesting you consider it a [125:07] combat sport. [125:08] >> It's 100% combat sport. [125:10] >> Why? So, because it's not applicable to [125:12] real fighting. So, why do you call it a [125:14] combat sport? [125:14] >> I mean, real fighting is hard to define [125:16] anyways. I mean, [125:17] >> is it? [125:17] >> Well, there's levels, you know, there's [125:20] levels of real fighting. I mean, what we [125:22] look at, I I love UFC. It's cool, but we [125:24] invented guns long ago, you know, [125:26] >> of course, but that's not a sport. I [125:29] mean, it is a sport in terms of like [125:31] being able to shoot accurately and stuff [125:33] like that, but you're using an external [125:35] device. You're using a weapon, [125:36] >> right? [125:37] >> With your physical body, combat sports. [125:40] Why would you consider arm wrestling to [125:41] be a combat sport? [125:43] >> [sighs and gasps] [125:44] >> Well, because it's between two people [125:47] and um there's so much interplay and you [125:52] know there's not the rigidity of a lot [125:55] of sports that measure strength. Okay, [125:57] it's very much adjustment uh adaption uh [126:02] decision- making um a lot of games, a [126:06] lot of a lot of technique, a lot of [126:08] adaptation. [126:09] uh you can be super strong but if you [126:11] can't adapt, if you can't think, if you [126:13] can't speak, if you can't play, [126:16] >> right? [126:16] >> Yeah. You're [126:17] >> But in that sense, do you consider [126:18] football a combat sport? [126:20] >> Yeah. [126:20] >> Okay. [126:21] >> Yeah. [126:21] >> There's there's two sides and you're [126:23] fighting. It's metaphor. Okay. Look at [126:25] all this stuff. Uh I I love the UFC, but [126:29] I consider it a combat sport, you know. [126:31] >> Well, it definitely is a combat sport. [126:33] >> 100%. probably one of the best examples [126:34] of but [126:36] >> the primary example [126:37] >> if I was going to put together like you [126:39] know the ultimate like you know we were [126:42] going to take out like like if we were [126:44] going to go to war against another [126:46] nation or whatever you know yeah for [126:48] sure I'm looking at UFC guys for sure [126:49] I'm looking at football guys you know um [126:51] looking at whoever can get the job done [126:54] and um there's a lot of pieces to that [126:57] >> well that's different I mean you're look [126:58] if they're going to war with just bodies [127:00] only using your body that's one thing [127:02] but you know obviously with war, [127:04] >> weapons, rule above all. [127:07] >> Absolutely. [127:07] >> Yeah. [127:08] >> I think that that's where we're at these [127:09] days. [127:10] >> So, [127:11] >> well, now we're with thumbs because now [127:13] it's basically drones. [127:14] >> Yeah. [127:15] >> You know, I mean, that's the you're [127:17] going to get to a point soon where human [127:19] beings are going to be irrelevant. So [127:21] when it comes to sport, arm wrestling is [127:25] falls for me it falls into that combat [127:27] sector, you know, where two people are [127:30] are engaging in a a fight, a [127:33] metaphorical fight against each other. [127:35] >> I get it. [127:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. you'll you'll I mean if if [127:39] it wasn't um a combat sport then the [127:43] stronger guy would normally win and and [127:45] it normally does but as soon as you I [127:47] can get like if I could get like a guy [127:49] who's been practicing arm wrestling for [127:50] like four or five years they'll beat [127:52] anybody anybody that's not practicing. [127:56] It's the same thing as like a jiu-jitsu [127:58] guy. If you if you give a jiu-jitsu guy [128:00] like four or five years on the mat and [128:02] you get Brian Shaw or like some giant [128:05] come in, who's going to win? [128:07] >> It really depends. I could teach Brian [128:10] Shaw a few things real quick. You could [128:12] strangle pretty much anybody. [128:14] >> And Brian Shaw is an extreme example. [128:16] >> Yeah. But someone your size [128:19] Yeah. It's like size the size is [128:21] commensurate. Yeah. The person who's [128:23] training [128:23] >> Yeah. [128:24] >> they're going to win every time. and and [128:25] small people dominate big people all the [128:27] time, [128:28] >> right? Because it's that technical, it's [128:30] that skill-based. [128:32] >> It's just it's also repetition under [128:34] understanding the positions, [128:36] understanding mistakes, understand, you [128:37] know, knowing where to be and what to [128:39] do, how to flow, how to move with [128:41] someone. So, you're not just going [128:42] strength for strength against them. [128:44] You're you're flowing with them. [128:46] >> I think I think of it as a combat sport [128:48] as well because I try and make it that [128:51] way, [128:51] >> right? Yeah. [128:52] >> Well, you definitely do. And you [128:53] definitely make it like psychologically. [128:55] >> I try. [128:56] >> Yeah. [128:56] >> I try and pull all that stuff in. [128:58] >> Well, you have a extensive military [128:59] experience, too. Like you started off [129:01] like when what what is the Canadian [129:04] version of what you what what branch of [129:06] the military you were in? [129:08] >> I was with a unit called JTF2 for 16 out [129:11] of my 20 years. [129:13] >> Yeah, [129:14] >> it was great. I' I'd still be there if I [129:16] could really, but it got too complicated [129:19] and I had to leave. But, uh, [129:22] >> how so? What do you mean? [129:23] >> Uh, it w, you know, I don't want to say [129:26] it was entirely one thing or another, [129:28] but it it really probably had a lot to [129:30] do with arm wrestling and and the [129:31] visibility of arm wrestling. Like, I've [129:33] been arm wrestling my whole life, but [129:35] uh, jeez, it was 19, I think. Um, or [129:38] sorry, not 19. It was 200 [129:41] 14 and we were on ESPN at the time. And [129:46] up to that point, I was not declared [129:48] military in the public eye. like I was a [129:51] farmer as far as everybody was [129:52] concerned. You know, I tried to play the [129:55] operational security as as well as I [129:57] could and uh you know um I was an active [130:01] active JTF2 member. Um but there were a [130:04] lot of concerns about the growth of arm [130:06] wrestling for me and my you know [130:09] exposure and you know part of being an [130:12] operator is you know you have to you [130:14] have to be anonymous. you get on an [130:16] airplane, you can't have people taking [130:17] pictures of you and [130:19] >> Oh, right. [130:20] >> Right. So, arm wrestling because of [130:21] where where I was and it was on ESPN and [130:24] going further, they're like, "Devon, you [130:25] have to choose." And I'm like, "Oh my [130:27] god, I've been armor since I was a kid." [130:29] So, the long and short of that is uh [130:31] they offered me a year off. Uh no pay. I [130:34] took it. I took it. I took the year off. [130:36] And we were I was gathering apples and [130:40] eating sardines and sending my kids to [130:43] school with dried apples. And me and my [130:45] wife were like, "Oh my god, are we [130:47] crazy?" Like, "Are we crazy?" [130:48] >> Just so you try to make it in arm [130:50] wrestling. [130:51] >> It was uh It was complicated. It was [130:53] complicated. Yeah. I I' I'd done like [130:55] seven tours and um [130:59] it's weird when you do a lot of tours, [131:01] you know. Um things start to gray out a [131:04] little bit. [131:05] >> And so [131:06] >> everything is about mission in life, [131:08] right? Like everything. Like if you [131:11] don't have a good mission, your life is [131:13] going to fall to [ __ ] And as soon as [131:17] you start to question any kind of that [131:22] and you know you you you play in that [131:25] realm long enough, most guys start to at [131:28] the beginning I mean you're just either [131:30] so patriotic or you know just so down to [131:34] uh you know help your country or [131:36] whatever or the people around you that [131:37] you don't really you're undeterred. And [131:40] I think that probably sometime around [131:43] that point in my career um maybe I was [131:47] struggling slightly and that combined [131:49] with the uh them telling me that I [131:52] wasn't able to do something that was [131:55] like the only thing I did you know when [131:57] I left work uh was kind of the thing [132:00] that kind of make me take kind of a [132:03] stand in my life that I was going to you [132:06] know [132:08] follow sport instead of [132:10] Um, [132:12] sport's beautiful. Sport's very clearly [132:16] building civilization and war, you know, [132:18] the further you go and it just gets to a [132:20] level of merc where you're not sure. So, [132:24] yeah. So, [132:24] >> when you say you're not sure, you're not [132:25] sure if you should be doing what you're [132:27] doing. You're not sure if the mission [132:28] should be happening. [132:30] >> Yeah. Because I think most people join [132:32] the military and stay in the military [132:34] because they genuinely believe that [132:36] they're benefiting mankind or [132:38] civilization to some degree. It's a big [132:40] part of it. Not nobody's there for the [132:42] money, you know? I mean, some at the [132:44] beginning some people are cuz we're [132:45] broke, right? [132:46] >> But I mean, once you spend like 10 [132:48] years, I mean, u you're you're probably [132:50] okay. And [132:51] >> um yeah, so it start I mean you you you [132:54] play enough in that world and it starts [132:56] to get confusing that you're maybe [132:58] you're not doing the right thing. So, [133:01] uh, and look, it I I loved my work. I [133:04] thought it was great. I loved all the [133:06] people I worked with. Some of the best [133:07] people in the world. Um, but yeah, it [133:10] came to a point where there was some [133:13] issues, you know, with OBSC, not even in [133:16] my career, but in others, and it kind of [133:18] trickled down into unit policy, and they [133:20] shut down everybody's extracurricular. [133:22] And yeah, they're like, Devin, you can't [133:24] arm wrestle anymore. And I'm like, oh my [133:26] god, I'm a current world champion. like [133:28] I I am currently the open world champion [133:30] and you're telling me I can't do it. [133:33] >> So I was like, "Yeah, we're going to [133:35] have to come up with some other [133:36] solution." They're like, "Yeah, okay. [133:37] Years leave without pay. Here's your [133:39] final offer." So we took it and my wife [133:41] and I were like, "Oh my god." So yeah, [133:44] so I I went from making money and I had [133:46] and I didn't come we didn't have money, [133:48] you know. Uh [133:50] >> but you were getting by. [133:51] >> Yeah. Getting by. Uh but it meant that [133:54] on that year I like had to win. It was [133:56] no longer like my hobby. It was like if [133:59] I don't win like my kids are like not [134:02] I'm gonna have to sell a house or like [134:04] I'm gonna have to It was a gamble. Uh it [134:08] worked out. [134:09] >> Yeah. [134:09] >> What was that stress like, [134:11] >> dude? It was a lot. [134:12] >> How old were you at the time? [134:14] >> Uh Okay, that was 2014, so I'd be 39. [134:18] >> Oh, wow. So, you're already older as an [134:20] athlete? [134:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. [134:22] >> Wow. [134:23] >> Yeah, it was totally trippy. I remember [134:26] being so stressed out. I was I was So it [134:30] was uh it was a W finals. Okay. I was in [134:32] the 225lb division, 20,000 bucks for [134:36] first place. Uh right hand, left hand. [134:39] And um and I had a great sponsor. Okay. [134:41] They were matching uh my pay. So [134:43] anything I won, they doubled it and they [134:45] were doing some other stuff, too. So But [134:47] but if I lost, I got nothing. [134:49] >> Right. So I'm I'm in the back. I'm in [134:52] the back in the warm-up area and I'm [134:54] [snorts] [134:55] I'm breathing. I'm getting ready. I'm [134:56] going against this guy Ron Bath in the [134:58] finals. And uh longtime mentor of mine, [135:02] guys like my older brother, this guy [135:04] Mike Gould comes over to me. He's like, [135:06] Devin, he's like he's like, "You used to [135:08] run to practice when you were 18." He's [135:10] like, "You're just here cuz you love it. [135:12] Don't worry about it. Just go and have [135:13] fun." And I'm like, "Okay, you're right. [135:15] You're right." And I went out and I just [135:16] had fun and worked out. But but yeah, so [135:20] I ended up uh I ended up um doing my [135:23] year's leave without pay as soon as I [135:25] was taking my leave. They're like, "We [135:27] want you to declare like we want you to [135:30] tell people that you're special forces [135:31] now." So I went from [135:33] >> Why' they want you to do that? [135:34] >> Cuz they pushed me into recruiting. [135:37] >> Yeah. So when I got back, I tried again [135:39] to I think they'd already made up their [135:40] mind. Uh when I got back, I'm like, [135:43] "Yeah, can I have my old job back?" And [135:44] they're like, "You going to keep arm [135:46] wrestling?" And I'm like, well, you [135:48] know, and they're like, okay, you're [135:50] going to recruiting. And I was on, so at [135:52] that point, I was on my 19th year. Okay. [135:57] And you only in the Canadian Forces at [136:01] that time. Now, I think you need 25, but [136:03] it 20 years continuous service and you [136:05] get like a base pension. [136:08] So, I did my 19th to 20th year, I went [136:11] around Canada and I told people how [136:13] great the JTF was and that was it. That [136:16] was my career done. Yeah. [136:17] >> Wow. [136:17] >> Yeah. Now full-time armorist for the [136:19] last 10 10 years. [136:21] >> What a what a jump [laughter] at 39. [136:23] >> Yeah. [136:24] >> That had to be so [ __ ] [136:25] nerve-wracking. [136:26] >> It was I I just, you know, I thought it [136:30] was very selfish of me, you know. Um I I [136:34] thought that I was being very [136:36] irresponsible. I thought, you know, [136:39] because I really believed in soldiering. [136:41] I did. And you know to leave it you know [136:45] made me question very much whether I was [136:47] doing the right thing with my life and [136:50] and then on a family level I was like [136:54] I'm being am I being irresponsible [136:56] chasing this you know thing that I love [136:59] to do and it's costing my my kids you [137:01] know their their university education [137:03] it's costing my kids you know um but [137:07] yeah we we we believed in it we went for [137:10] it and uh it's all worked out. It's all [137:13] worked out. I mean, um, it's been a [137:16] second life for me. Um, I still love all [137:21] the guys I work with, some of them are [137:23] still working. My god, guys do like 30 [137:25] year careers in the special forces. It's [137:27] crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. A lot of the [137:29] guys that I went through with are now in [137:31] senior positions and I bump into them [137:33] every once in a while and it's I just [137:36] tell them how much I love them and how [137:37] great they are and [137:39] yeah I'm I live a civil simple life now. [137:43] It it's beautiful you know like uh [137:45] before life was very complicated going [137:48] on tours you know special forces life is [137:50] is super complex you know you're it's [137:52] it's difficult to balance how my wife [137:54] and I made it through that I have no [137:56] idea. I have no idea what we did. But uh [137:59] yeah, now now I'm at home every day. I [138:02] wake up unless I'm on, you know, going [138:04] to some arm wrestling tournament. It's [138:06] beautiful. [138:06] >> Well, I got to think that the discipline [138:08] that came from that life transferred [138:10] over to the discipline of becoming a [138:12] great arm wrestler. [138:14] >> I think I'm still learning today from my [138:17] career. I'm still digesting some of the [138:21] greatest days and some of the stuff that [138:23] I did. I'm still integrating it into my [138:25] life. Yeah. It's a great teacher. [138:29] >> Well, you can't fail. [138:31] >> No, you can't. [138:32] >> It's just like you can't [138:33] >> the ultimate consequences, the ultimate [138:35] stakes. [138:36] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. I I I [138:39] love the concept of soldiering. I think [138:41] I I have it as one of the highest things [138:44] that you can do. Like there's being a [138:47] mother and there's being a fighter, you [138:49] know. And I I personally have always [138:51] believed that one of the highest orders [138:53] of fighters are the guys in the [138:54] military, you know, the SF guys. Like [138:56] it's it's it's it's pretty awesome. Um [139:00] but uh yeah, it's it's it's I try and [139:05] take all those lessons and bring them [139:06] into the sport and I try to um well, I [139:11] try and let that chapter of my life, you [139:14] know, feed and inspire me today. Do you [139:18] talk much about your tours? The [139:19] different [139:20] >> I I don't a lot. Um I it's not that uh [139:26] you know anything matters at this point. [139:28] And I mean it's all like it's all in the [139:30] past and you know there's nothing that I [139:32] could really say now that influences too [139:33] much but um yeah I don't make it part of [139:37] my general promotion too much but [139:40] everybody knows that I was you know uh [139:43] it's a it's a it's a wild time in my [139:45] life you know uh it's a huge chapter you [139:48] know the military stuff the tours that I [139:50] did you know we we did a lot of work in [139:53] Afghanistan so you know the highlight of [139:56] my career is working in Kandahar [139:59] um you know working with the American [140:01] forces working with the indage forces [140:03] you know we JTF does like [140:05] counterterrorism so we're doing hits [140:07] doing hits at night you know going out [140:09] and various kinds but yeah it was always [140:13] funny to me people would because people [140:15] didn't know I was you know widely and oh [140:18] Deon's scared to come to this tournament [140:21] you know and I was like [ __ ] [140:23] [laughter] I am in a goddamn war right [140:25] now like I am not scared scared to go to [140:28] Nearro Cup, you know. [140:30] >> But yeah, [140:31] >> that's funny. [140:32] >> Yeah, it was that must have been [140:33] hilarious. [140:34] >> It was so funny for me. I'm like, you [140:36] have no idea how scared I am right now, [140:38] what I'm doing, you know. [laughter] [140:41] War war is a war is a wild thing, you [140:44] know. Um [140:45] the degree that it's psychologically [140:48] affected me is uh it's been it's been [140:50] neat, you know. I think that a lot of [140:54] who I am was shaped by combat, you know, [140:58] by the fear um and um and the lacking [141:04] that I had like the the the the not [141:08] being enough to to be everything I could [141:11] be in combat uh shaped me so much. you [141:15] know, um, you know, when you go on a [141:20] tour and there's different people, [141:22] there's different dudes, okay? I know [141:23] some dudes who really don't get scared. [141:26] They really don't. Like, they're like so [141:29] down for it. Like, they can't wait to go [141:31] on the next mission, you know? Uh, and I [141:33] was kind of the guy who was like [141:35] completely scared shitless, but I'd go [141:37] anyways, you know? Um, and what I kind [141:42] of learned to do, which I have a great [141:46] value in, is kind of the separation of [141:49] of myself. You know, I am a very [141:52] different person dayto-day than when I [141:55] compete or when I, for example, went and [141:57] actually did the job. You know, I I [142:00] would completely transform my character. [142:02] And this is something that I learned. [142:03] The first tour was hard. you know, [142:05] you're a regular dude with a regular [142:06] brain and a regular mindset doing this [142:08] terrifying thing. Um, and then, you [142:11] know, you come back and you, you know, [142:13] you've seen a lot of [ __ ] and you you [142:15] got PTSD. You wake up and your heart's [142:18] going and it's like an injury and you [142:21] can let an injury kill you or you can [142:25] heal and develop some kind of resilience [142:28] to it. And I think that I to some degree [142:31] did that by learning how to become a [142:35] different person. Uh people call it a [142:39] switch, you know, where you like all [142:42] your values, the person that you are is [142:44] different. You're not the same person [142:46] when you're out in the field than you [142:48] are when you're you're back on base. And [142:52] I created a persona that loved it, that [142:56] looked forward to it, that lusted for [142:58] it, because that's what you need to be [143:00] to actually perform properly. [143:02] >> When you say you created a persona, what [143:04] was the steps like? What did how did you [143:06] do that? [143:07] >> Well, [sighs] [143:08] um I think that one of the things is to [143:11] really wrap your mind. I think the first [143:13] step is to wrap your mind about the [143:16] worst possible outcomes um with any [143:18] fear. And I don't know if a psychologist [143:21] is going to tell you to do this, but [143:23] like for example, like um I I'll take it [143:26] a step back. We'll talk about jumping. [143:28] Okay, I I don't like to jump at [143:30] airplanes. Okay, didn't really, you [143:32] know, it's kind of scary. Uh so I had a [143:35] certain fear there. Okay, now I got over [143:37] it. I've got, you know, I've got [143:39] hundreds of jumps. Um, but what I did [143:43] was I used to watch parachute fails over [143:46] and over and over and over and over and [143:48] I just kind of desensitized myself to it [143:50] and kind of became okay with it. Uh, and [143:53] I think to a certain degree I did the [143:56] same thing with the overall concept of [143:58] worst case scenario with the war. You [144:01] know, kind of accepted that I'm I'm [144:04] going to die. It's okay. I I believe in [144:06] the cause. Believe in the mission. It's [144:07] it's okay. So now I have to solve how to [144:10] actually how do I get to the best [144:12] performance state to do that? And you [144:15] have to love what you do. You got to [144:17] love what you do. So you have to find a [144:19] way to love the violence. You have to [144:21] find a way to love the aggression. You [144:25] have to find a way to and I think it's [144:28] inside all of us. I think that the [144:30] person that you are is, you know, who [144:32] you've kind of created for a certain [144:34] circumstance. But the truth is is you [144:36] might act a little bit different when [144:37] you're sitting at the table with your [144:39] mother than when you're sitting at the [144:40] table with your best friend to when [144:43] you're going out and doing a hit on the [144:44] front lines, you know, and it's a [144:46] different psychology that's going to [144:48] perform best, you know, in each of [144:50] those. And it's it's learning that you [144:52] are not necessarily one thing. You are [144:56] whatever you want to be, you know, and [144:58] you can you can change that. You can and [145:00] you can become that. And the more time [145:02] that you spend as that role, the more [145:05] you [snorts] roll it out, the more you [145:07] build it out, the more you're [145:08] comfortable with it, the more you might [145:11] even look forward to doing it again, you [145:13] know. Um, I certainly rolled that [145:16] psychology into my arm wrestling. [145:19] >> What's interesting you say, I don't know [145:20] if a psychologist would tell you to do [145:22] that. I don't think a psychologist would [145:24] have the ability to understand what that [145:26] experience even is. There's one thing [145:29] about theory and about books and about [145:31] learning in school. There's a giant [145:33] difference between that and application [145:35] in a real world scenario where you might [145:38] lose your life and you have to take a [145:40] life. [145:40] >> That's I don't think there's a [145:42] psychologist in the world that could [145:43] explain that. That's why I'm always very [145:46] hesitant about even sports psychologists [145:49] or fight psychologists that like teach [145:52] people how to prepare for fight. Like [145:54] you could probably give a fighter some [145:56] tools, but for you to actually tell them [145:59] what needs to be done and you if you're [146:01] not doing that, how can you what you [146:05] It's just theory. [146:06] >> Theory. [146:07] >> Yeah. And there's a giant difference [146:08] between theory and application where you [146:11] are trying to keep your [ __ ] brain [146:13] together in the craziest thing a human [146:16] being can do. [146:17] >> Yeah. [146:17] >> Parachute down and gun people down. Like [146:20] what what is [ __ ] crazier on earth [146:23] than that? I say nothing. [146:26] >> Well, look, I I used to have that [146:28] attitude as well. Um but I I've I've [146:31] changed my attitude when it comes to [146:32] that. I think that [146:34] >> it's about um excellence and mastery. I [146:38] think that that's what life is about. [146:39] And if you're in the soldiering realm, [146:42] yeah, that's that's excellence and [146:44] mastery in that field. But I think [146:46] wherever you are, if you're a [146:48] businessman, if you're an artist, if if [146:50] you're a farmer, um there's levels. You [146:53] know, you can be you can be a farmer [146:54] that, you know, has weeds and, you know, [146:57] kind of, you know, doesn't get up at the [146:59] crack of dawn or whatever, and then you [147:00] can be a completely psychotic farmer [147:02] that does. And I think that you're on [147:04] that level. [147:05] >> Yeah. [147:05] >> You're just you're on that level of [147:07] mastery. And I think that that is what [147:09] life is really about is finding that [147:12] thing that you're comfortable doing and [147:14] becoming a master at it. [147:16] >> Yeah. [147:16] >> Yeah. [147:17] >> Yeah. [147:17] >> And now I am the Bonnie Blue of arm [147:20] wrestling. [laughter] [147:23] Come one, come all. [147:25] >> I got I get the first base with [147:27] everybody. [147:28] >> I got to ask you about this and this is [147:29] a silly thing to ask you because you [147:31] said Kandahar. [147:32] >> Have you heard of the legend of the [147:34] Kandahar giant? [147:35] >> Of course. [147:36] >> Yeah. What did you hear? [147:38] >> When did you hear? [147:39] >> Oh, I've seen Okay. [laughter] There's [147:41] some freaks out there, man. There's some [147:43] freaks. Uh, so yeah, I mean, I've seen [147:46] the YouTube video. I've I've heard about [147:49] it from other people, but legit legit. [147:53] Okay. Um, hard for me because I was far [147:57] away. Okay. I was probably about 200 [148:01] meters away. We were doing a mobility [148:04] exercise. Okay. Mobility. I hate [148:06] mobility. Okay, mobility was my least [148:09] favorite op. Mobility basically you get [148:11] a bunch of trucks and you kind of roll [148:13] out and you kind of look for a fight. [148:15] Okay, so we were doing like a two-eek [148:17] mobility in this this region kind of [148:21] north north of the Pangway. [148:24] [sighs] I don't remember exactly what it [148:25] was called. There's this surrounded by [148:27] mountains, this big valley and we were [148:29] rolling around [148:31] and um [148:34] and so there was a village that we were [148:36] going to check out and I'm I'm like a [148:40] gunner, okay? So I don't know everything [148:43] that's going on. I'm a dude on a machine [148:45] gun, okay? But I can see everything [148:47] that's happening. I kind of know what [148:48] we're doing all but I know that there's [148:51] a meeting and what they have is they [148:53] have these warlords. It doesn't it's not [148:55] the same kind of political system or [148:57] anything that we have in like North [148:59] America. Kind of the baddest dude in the [149:03] region becomes in charge. Okay. So we [149:07] were meeting with one of the local [149:10] warlords [149:12] and so the town was like 500 meters [149:15] away. They drove out from the town about [149:18] 500 meters and we had our our trucks [149:20] about 200 mters from the meeting point. [149:24] our officer and a couple dudes went [149:26] forward and we're looking. [149:29] [sighs] This guy, I mean, he was maybe [149:32] twice as big. He was huge. He was a [149:35] massive dude. [149:36] >> Like how big? [149:37] >> I I I I think he was 8 feet. I think he [149:40] was 8 foot something. And it's [149:41] embarrassing. It's It's like Devin, [149:43] you're crazy. And he's big. [149:45] >> How And he was 200 meters away. [149:47] >> He's about 200 meters away, but I can [149:48] see the guys. We've got We got optics. [149:51] Um he was our officer was probably [149:54] somewhere between at the bottom of his [149:56] chest. Um great big Afghan dude, big [150:00] beard, big dude. Big dude. And his [150:03] lackeyis around them were normal size. [150:05] Great big warlord. Um so they're out [150:08] there. There's big people. There's [150:10] >> 8 feet is nuts. [150:11] >> I have personally seen um people who [150:14] were probably over eight feet. [150:16] >> What? [150:17] >> Yeah. In Afghanistan. [150:18] >> No. No. I saw these guys up north, [150:21] northern Canada, Cree. Um, I was up in [150:25] Ojibumo. Okay, this Cree village. Uh, I [150:29] remember walking up. I'm there for arm [150:30] wrestling. We're having an arm wrestling [150:32] tournament and I'm looking up. We're [150:35] walking up the stairs in this hockey [150:36] arena and this dude, I'm like, that's a [150:37] really big dude. And by the time I got [150:39] there, I was about me and I'm like 6'5. [150:42] I was about at his nipple. Okay. [150:44] >> What? [150:44] >> Yeah. Big big hands. big long hands like [150:49] out of the Goonies like misshapen face. [150:52] I'm like my god. I'm like like how big [150:54] are you? He's like just laughed at me [150:56] and he's like my brother my he's like my [150:58] dad's 8 foot 11. He's like like [151:00] >> what? [151:01] >> Yeah. Big [sighs and gasps] big [151:03] >> my dad's [clears throat] 8 foot1. [151:04] >> I tell you there's big people and and [151:06] people don't know about him. Guinness [151:07] doesn't know about them. They live up in [151:09] the woods. There's big people out there [151:11] and not all [151:12] >> that guy Jamie. [151:12] >> He's from that region apparently. I [151:14] don't know how to say that. Edward [151:17] Papri. [151:18] >> So there's just giants that live in that [151:20] region. [151:21] >> There's the CRE are very big people. And [151:23] the thing is is when they get to eat [151:25] what they're supposed to eat. The [151:27] problem is so many of them eat junk now, [151:29] right? Because they, you know, they grow [151:31] up [151:32] >> maybe or 367, sorry. [151:34] >> 8 foot 2 and a half, 367bs, [151:37] age 33. [151:39] >> Whoa. Yeah. I forget the name of these [151:42] brothers, but there there's a bunch of [151:43] them. Yeah. Yeah. There's some weird [151:46] genetics out there, you know. [151:48] >> Yeah. [151:48] >> Yeah. And we're gonna try and swab them. [151:50] I'll give it to Ryan [laughter] before [151:53] you know it. [151:54] >> But so this guy in Afghanistan was this [151:56] uh one isolated incident. [151:59] >> I saw one. [152:01] >> Yeah. I just saw the one [152:02] >> and he had to be 8 feet tall. [152:03] >> He is big. He's big. Yeah. He's big big [152:07] human being. Far out of the standard. [152:09] Yeah. And he was a warlord. [152:11] >> Wow. [152:12] >> Yeah. Yeah. They're big. There are big [152:14] people out there. [152:16] >> And so the Kandahar giant story, the guy [152:18] is supposed to be even bigger than that. [152:20] >> Yeah. Yeah, I heard it. [152:21] >> Can you believe it? [152:22] >> Uh I I do. Yeah, I do. There's freaks [152:25] out there. There are. Uh [152:27] >> but this guy supposedly had like six [152:29] fingers and six toes. [152:31] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I believe I believe [152:34] that stuff. I I just I mean I think that [152:37] we get so used to normal people and [152:39] every once in a while there's a weirdo. [152:40] Um [152:41] >> and these people are not being studied. [152:43] There's no one there. Like the that [152:45] region of the country is extremely [152:48] remote. [152:48] >> Extremely [152:50] extremely like they don't it's it's like [152:52] going back to like the 15th century. [152:55] Like there's there's motorcycles and [152:57] some people have gas. I mean, but they [152:59] don't have electricity. Um [snorts] [153:02] Yeah. There's not even really roads. [153:04] Yeah. [153:04] >> And there was this one guy who was a [153:06] warlord that was 8t tall. [153:08] >> I saw him. [153:09] >> You saw him? [153:10] >> I saw him. Yeah. From a distance. But I [153:13] mean, there's no way he was any shorter. [153:15] Like, he was huge. He was a massive And [153:17] he was broad across his shoulders, too. [153:19] He was probably twice as broad. Um, [153:22] massive massive human. Yeah. [153:25] >> What [snorts] was that like just seeing [153:26] something like that? [153:27] >> It's wild, man. Yeah. You know, it's [153:31] it's neat. Um [153:33] Yeah. Yeah. It it was it was shocking, [153:37] but uh but you know, it's neat how they [153:40] structure their leadership. That's the [153:42] guy in charge. [153:43] >> The most massive guy. [153:44] >> I hope he was a nice guy. [laughter] [153:46] >> Probably wasn't. [153:47] >> I don't know. I don't know. I mean, he [153:49] seemed reasonable. Like, we didn't get [153:51] in the fight. [153:52] >> Like, we didn't there was no fight [153:54] there. [153:54] >> Wow. [153:54] >> So, we worked it out, whatever it was. [153:57] But, [153:58] >> yeah, there's there are anomalies and [154:00] and it's it's neat. It's kind of cool [154:02] that he made it to a leadership [154:03] position. So, he must have been a smart [154:05] guy, too. And he must have been a good [154:06] guy because a I don't think a a dick [154:09] could have been in charge. So did you [154:11] hear of that story? The Kandahar giant [154:14] story. So supposedly what happened is [154:16] it's American military guys encountered [154:19] this guy in the mountains. [154:21] >> Yeah. [154:21] >> That was just absolutely enormous. They [154:23] said he was like 12 feet tall. [154:25] >> Yeah. Well, what happened with the [154:28] Nephilim, you know, [154:29] >> right? That's the thing. Well, that was [154:30] [snorts] the thing is like supposedly [154:33] they had six fingers and six toes as [154:35] well. [154:36] Look, it I I believe that uh things come [154:39] to visit and sometimes things get left [154:42] behind and who knows who knows, you [154:45] know, there's a good chance that he's [154:47] maybe just a little bit closer to all [154:49] that or somehow a recessive and a [154:51] recessive somehow found their ways [154:54] together. And there you go. [154:56] >> And somehow there's a surviving [154:58] population of these people still in the [155:00] world that are undiscovered. It's a [155:02] beautiful part of the world that region, [155:05] perfect climate, super fertile like if [155:08] you were going to like if there was [155:10] nothing uh what a beautiful place to [155:12] start life. Afghanistan's beautiful [155:15] country, so rich for agriculture. The [155:18] climate is perfect, you know, with the [155:20] mountains and the rivers, uh the [155:23] seasons, it's it's tough to beat, you [155:25] know. I would understand why people [155:26] would fight so hard to have that [155:28] territory. And uh you know if you were a [155:31] giant 12t tall and you could live [155:34] anywhere you wanted you know in a valley [155:36] where the rivers fed your land I could [155:39] pick there. Yeah. [155:41] >> Did you hear that story when you were [155:43] over there? [155:43] >> That story is famous. [155:45] >> Yeah. And I asked around. I've never met [155:47] anybody who was involved in that op. I [155:50] haven't. But [155:52] >> but it seems like a story that has [155:54] something to it because there's too many [155:57] people telling that story. There's only [155:59] only one story like that. [156:02] >> There are a lot of stories. [156:03] >> There's more stories like that. [156:05] >> There are [156:06] >> I mean I should say there's only one [156:07] story like that online that people [156:09] repeat over and over again. This one [156:11] encounter. [156:12] >> There are fascinating stories out there. [156:14] Uh some that I'm closer to um [156:17] >> like what [156:18] >> probably the most interesting story that [156:20] I'm in any way kind of close to is um [156:23] from that region of the world. And this [156:25] is a whole another can of worms, but [156:27] it's um it's so weird. Uh demonic [156:31] possession, you know, we've we had a guy [156:34] a guy he was my he I I worked with him [156:37] very closely for super smart guy, great [156:40] guy, awesome dude, awesome soldier. [156:42] [snorts] And uh and yeah, I mean he got [156:44] possessed by a demon. He started [156:46] speaking in tongues. He knew everything [156:48] about everybody. He could speak [156:50] different languages. Uh he uh [156:54] [sighs and gasps] [156:55] He knew everything about everybody's [156:56] life. He knew all their sins. [156:59] >> Yeah. He knew he knew all the sins [157:00] people did even from their childhood. [157:02] And [157:02] >> what [157:03] >> that he got taken to uh he got taken to [157:07] the medical through the medical system [157:10] before they knew it. He was out of the [157:12] medical system and he was with uh the [157:13] padre the like the priest that comes [157:16] along on some military missions. They uh [157:19] they did a what what do you call that [157:20] when you cleanse a demon from what do [157:23] you call it? [157:24] They did an exorcism. [snorts] He he [157:26] they sent him back to Canada. He uh he's [157:30] now watched by the church. He has to go [157:32] and check in with the church every every [157:34] every week. [157:36] I don't know what to tell you, Joe. [157:38] There's a lot. I don't know. Uh but [157:40] yeah, and and the crazy thing was is the [157:42] priest who did the exorcism said he knew [157:45] the demon. [157:46] >> He he'd already exorc he'd already done [157:49] the exorcism like three or four times. [157:52] Different people. Yeah. That demon was [157:53] like popping in and out other guys. [157:56] Yeah. So I look I Joe, I don't know [157:57] what's going on in the world. I'm an arm [157:59] wrestler. Okay. [158:00] >> But this guy knew things about you. [158:03] >> No, I wasn't on the tour. But the unit's [158:06] very small. Okay. I All the guys who [158:08] were there I have very close personal [158:10] relationships with and there's no reason [158:11] for me not to trust him. And this is the [158:14] all the and and the guy who had it done [158:16] to him I'm very close with. Like he [158:19] comes over my he was my stall partner. [158:21] Okay. Uh, and I see him all [158:23] >> when you say had it done to the guy who [158:24] was possessed. [158:25] >> Yes, [158:25] >> you knew him. [158:26] >> I know him very well. [158:27] >> And what did he say about it? [158:29] >> Yeah, he doesn't like it very much. [158:31] Yeah, he's he it scared him a lot. Yeah. [158:35] Yeah, he [158:36] >> does he recall being able to speak [158:38] different languages? [158:38] >> Yeah, he can remember it. Yeah, he can [158:41] remember. [158:41] >> But he can't speak those languages [158:42] anymore. [158:43] >> Speak those languages. [158:44] >> No, it was like he was aware of [158:46] everything happening, but he was like he [158:48] was a a visitor. He was like there for [158:50] the ride. Whoa. [158:52] >> Yeah. Yeah. Apparently he when it [158:54] started it started to like it started he [158:56] was freezing. He was locking up and then [158:59] he was locking and then he started [159:01] speaking in tongues and then he was like [159:02] fully [159:04] Joe. It's it's it's it's weird stuff out [159:07] there, man. There's a lot of things that [159:08] we don't understand, right? And um yeah. [159:12] Uh yeah. I don't know what to tell you. [159:15] I don't know. It wasn't me. Uh, but I [159:18] trust the story because I know the [159:20] people. Um, I know them. I know them [159:23] very I could hook you up with them. You [159:25] want to talk to him? [159:26] >> Tell you. [159:27] >> I'm nervous. [159:27] >> Tell you all about it. [159:28] >> I don't think I would. [159:30] >> Yeah. [159:30] >> Wow. [159:31] >> Yeah. [159:32] >> And how long was he possessed for? [159:34] >> He was possessed, I think, for a couple [159:36] of weeks. Maybe like a week or 10 days. [159:40] Something like that. Wasn't super long, [159:42] but he was all messed up afterwards. [159:45] Like he got like he was done working [159:46] after that. [159:47] >> Really? He retired [159:49] >> medical. [159:50] >> Wow. [159:51] >> Yep. [159:53] >> But psychologically like it wasn't like [159:55] he had a schizophrenic break. [159:58] >> So whatever it was he came back from. [160:01] >> I don't know that schizophrenia can [160:03] explain the languages. I don't know. [160:05] >> No, I don't think it it can. But what [160:06] I'm saying is they didn't diagnose him [160:08] as having [160:09] >> No, the diagnosis was he had to go to [160:11] church. [160:12] >> Jesus Christ. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. [160:14] Yeah. Right. Isn't [160:16] >> that wild? [160:16] >> That's so crazy. [160:17] >> That's one of the craziest ones that [160:19] I've seen personally. [160:21] >> Have you heard of other experiences like [160:22] that where people have been possessed? [160:25] >> That's it. [160:26] >> Well, you would think that if a demon [160:27] was going to visit someone, war would be [160:29] the place to visit him. [160:30] >> And and that's an ancient that was in [160:32] Iraq. That was in Urbil. [160:35] >> Okay. And I mean that's a ancient [160:37] ancient part of the world. [160:39] >> Yeah. So whatever's like history is long [160:43] and [160:44] misunderstood and um something's going [160:48] on. Something's going on. I can't [160:52] explain it. And I've kind of just been [160:54] like I'm kind of like at this point in [160:56] my life I'm like whatever. I know I [160:57] don't know everything. I'm just going to [160:59] I'm just going to do wrist curls in my [161:00] basement for myself. [laughter] [161:04] Yeah. He's awesome. Martin, if you're [161:06] watching, come over. Let's party. Yeah. [161:08] Yeah. I love this guy. [161:09] >> Does he talk about it? [161:11] >> A little bit. A little bit. I I'm so [161:13] curious about [161:14] >> Do you think he would come on here and [161:15] tell the story? [161:16] >> Yep. [161:17] >> Really? [161:18] >> Sure. Of course. [161:19] >> Jeez. [161:20] >> Of course he [snorts] would. [161:22] >> I'm nervous. You [laughter] [161:24] >> are you nervous, Jamie? [161:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Martin. Yeah. [161:29] He's a cool dude. [161:30] >> Wow. [161:30] >> Yeah. I love him. I love him. Yeah. [161:33] Great soldier. [161:34] >> Yeah. [161:36] Brother, you've had a pretty wild life. [161:38] >> It's been great. Really? Um, ton of fun. [161:42] Happy happy to be here. Um, yeah, it's [161:45] been good. It's been good. [161:47] >> Well, I really enjoyed this [161:48] conversation, man. I'm glad we did it. [161:50] >> Joe, thank you so much. And, uh, really [161:52] like I feel like it's kind of closing [161:54] the loop for something with my brother. [161:56] >> Yeah. Well, you should we should tell [161:57] everybody uh I knew your brother uh [162:00] before I met you online and this is from [162:02] your brother. Your brother made this [162:03] candle and this candle will now sit [162:06] here. He uh is no longer with us, but [162:09] the candle will remain. [162:11] >> Thank you so much for your time, Joe. [162:13] >> My pleasure, brother. [162:14] >> Anytime you want to get into arm [162:15] wrestling, [162:16] >> come on over. We'll get your grip [162:18] strength working for you. [gasps] [162:20] >> No, no, I'm good. But thank you. I [162:23] appreciate it. [162:24] >> Wonderful. [162:24] >> And good luck. [162:25] >> Yeah. [162:26] >> Good luck beating that giant dude. [162:28] >> I'm going to need it. [162:28] >> 16 months. [162:29] >> 16 months, man. [162:30] >> Maybe we'll talk to you before then. [162:31] We'll do it again. Yeah, cool. Yeah. [162:33] Thank you so much. [music] Thanks, [162:34] brother. All right. Bye, everybody. [162:41] [music]