## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1s) Artificial Cranial Deformation in the Pacific Northwest
Dan Richards opens the conversation by handing Joe Rogan a small Smithsonian publication with diagrams detailing elongated skulls. While Rogan initially assumes the booklet documents the famous Peruvian elongated skulls, Richards clarifies that the majority of documented elongated skulls in recorded history actually come from the Pacific Northwest, specifically Oregon and Washington State. When Meriwether Lewis and William Clark navigated past the Cascade Mountains on the Columbia River, virtually all of the Native American tribes west of the Cascades practiced artificial cranial deformation. Richards directs Rogan to the publication's title, noting that among the Chinook people, an elongated skull was considered a definitive mark of status and freedom; an individual without a flattened or modified skull was typically an enslaved person.
Richards highlights the prominent Chinook leader Chief Comcomly, who met with Lewis and Clark during their expedition. Although Comcomly was once as renowned as Sacagawea a century ago, his historical prominence has faded from common memory. Comcomly possessed an artificially elongated skull and attributed his superior intellect and political acumen to this cranial modification. Rogan questions how anyone could make such a claim, given that the head-binding process was performed during infancy on cradleboards when an infant had no say or comparative awareness. Richards agrees that while the belief was widespread, it was based entirely on cultural tradition rather than objective self-comparison.
- The Smithsonian pamphlet examines skull modification among Chinookan peoples west of the Cascade Range.
- Cranial flattening was practiced on infants via padded cradleboards, serving as a class distinction where unaltered heads signified enslaved status.
- Chief Comcomly was a key historical trade broker and diplomatic partner to Lewis and Clark on the lower Columbia River.
---
[01:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=106s) Neanderthal Brain Structure and Physical Capabilities
Richards connects the idea of cranial shape to anatomical differences between modern humans and archaic hominins, pointing out the vast divergence between a *Homo sapiens* braincase and that of a Neanderthal. Jamie pulls up comparative imagery demonstrating how Neanderthal skulls extend outward at the posterior rather than ballooning upward in the front. Richards mentions Chiari malformation type 1, a medical condition where the base of the cerebellum descends into the spinal canal—causing chronic migraines and neurological complications—which some modern geneticists and anthropologists suggest might be an evolutionary consequence of interbreeding between human and Neanderthal skull shapes that do not quite align.
Rogan and Richards examine the anatomical trade-offs: the posterior of the skull houses regions governing vision, hearing, motor skills, and sensory processing, whereas modern humans feature enlarged frontal lobes responsible for executive function, planning, and abstract reasoning. Rogan observes the enormous eye sockets and heavy jaw structure of Neanderthals, joking that attempting to knock one out in a fight would be impossible: "Look at the jaw on that [motherfucker]. Imagine trying to knock that guy out. Good luck." Richards notes that Neanderthals possessed massive, barrel-shaped chests and immense natural musculature without needing to train. Rogan recalls an infamous, sensationalist theory proposed by an author who argued Neanderthals were hyper-muscular nocturnal apex predators that stalked and preyed upon early humans like gorillas in the dark—an idea dismissed by mainstream genetics, yet one Rogan humorously acknowledges as a terrifying and cinematic visual concept.
- Neanderthals possessed a longer, lower cranium with an occipital bun, contrasted with the high, rounded vault of modern humans.
- Chiari type 1 malformation involves cerebellar tonsillar herniation through the foramen magnum.
- Rogan highlights Neanderthal adaptations such as massive supraorbital tori, robust mandibles, large orbits for vision, and thick bone density.
---
[04:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=243s) Encephalization, Dolphin Infanticide, and Animal Ruthlessness
The discussion shifts to cranial capacity and intelligence across species. Despite Neanderthals having a larger average cranial capacity than modern humans, raw brain volume does not translate directly to technological civilization. Richards and Rogan consider dolphins, whose cerebral cortex is approximately 40 percent larger than a human's. Rogan points out that dolphins cannot manipulate fire, develop metallurgy, or fashion physical tools underwater, limiting their intelligence to complex social and hunting behaviors.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Environmental Constraints and Evolutionary Brutality
accDescr: Flowchart contrasting dolphin evolutionary limitations with reproductive infanticide seen in dolphins and bears.
subgraph IntelligenceConstraints["Environmental Limitations"]
A["High Brain Capacity / Encephalization"] --> B["Aquatic Environment"]
B --> C["No Fire or Tool Manipulation"]
C --> D["Intellect Channeled into Social & Hunting Dynamics"]
end
subgraph ReproductiveStrategies["Reproductive Pressures"]
E["Male Infanticide"] --> F["Female Returns to Estrus"]
F --> G["Female Promiscuity as Paternity Confusion"]
end
D -.-> ReproductiveStrategies
```
The romanticized view of intelligent wildlife leads Rogan to dismantle the peaceful image of marine mammals, noting that male dolphins frequently commit infanticide to force females back into estrus, driving female dolphins to be highly promiscuous so males cannot determine paternity. Rogan contrasts this ruthless survival instinct with human tendencies toward anthropomorphism. While people domesticate and anthropomorphize animals like circus bears, bears in the wild act with extreme brutality: they routinely invade maternal dens to kill and consume cubs, practice widespread cannibalism, and consume prey alive. Richards and Rogan conclude that applying human morality to animal behavior is a mistake, with Richards joking that if he had been born a bear, he likely would have been cannibalized as a cub or run over on a highway.
- Dolphins possess an exceptionally gyrified cerebral cortex and high encephalization quotient, but aquatic constraints prevent fire-based technological development.
- Infanticide is documented across diverse animal species, including bottlenose dolphins, chimpanzees, and brown bears, often driving reproductive countermeasures like multi-male mating.
- Rogan criticizes popular culture for anthropomorphizing apex predators that routinely exhibit brutal predation and intraspecific cannibalism.
---
[07:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=425s) Denisovans, Polydactyly, and Archaic Human Genetics
Richards pivots to the revolutionary pace of ancient hominin discoveries, emphasizing that our understanding of human origins has expanded far beyond Neanderthals with the identification of Denisovans and *Homo floresiensis* (the "Hobbit" hominins of Flores Island). Denisovans in particular possessed large teeth, heavy builds, and tall statures, leaving profound genetic traces in modern populations. Richards directs Jamie to display a 2023 scientific paper linking archaic hominin gene variants—shared between Neanderthals and Denisovans—to phenotypic traits in modern humans, including polydactyly (extra fingers and toes) and variations in cranial development.
The conversation turns to cultural attitudes toward physical anomalies. Rogan recalls Richards's video detailing a well-known family in Brazil where many members naturally carry six fully functional fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot. Rogan and Richards joke about the advantages of polydactyly, such as improved grip on a ball or playing complex chords on a guitar. Richards notes that in pre-Columbian South American traditions, physical differences and polydactyly were often revered rather than ostracized, leading him to hypothesize that ancient societies may have intentionally preserved and bred specific lineages carrying these distinctive genetic traits.
- Denisovans were archaic hominins contemporary with Neanderthals and early modern humans, known from fossil fragments in Siberia and the Tibetan Plateau.
- Genetic studies from 2023 link specific archaic alleles to skeletal variations in modern humans, including polydactyly and facial morphology.
- Polydactyly is documented in biblical and ancient mythologies as a trait associated with giants and revered lineages.
- The Brazilian Da Silva family is famous for congenital polydactyly, possessing six fully functioning, articulated digits on each hand.
[09:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=559s) Polydactyly, AI Glitches, and Musical Advantages
The conversation opens with a playful thought experiment about people born with extra digits. Rogan compares seeing someone with an unexpected number of fingers to experiencing a glitch in the Matrix or looking at an early AI image generation error, where people inexplicably sprout extra appendages like a bizarre elbow growing off an existing elbow. They joke about how long it would take someone to notice if they were high at a gathering and saw a pianist playing, wondering why so many different notes were happening at once before realizing the player had surplus fingers.
They also consider the practical athletic and mechanical advantages of polydactyly. Rogan points out that someone with extra fingers would make an unbelievable soccer goalie due to increased surface area, or potentially deliver devastating punches because the extra digit would widen the fist and increase its overall mass. Richards notes that guitarists often view the benefit not so much as having an extra finger itself, but rather the expanded stretch and reach across frets, though guitars are still fundamentally manufactured for standard five-fingered hands. Rogan adds that players have always adapted to awkward mechanics, citing Jimi Hendrix playing a right-handed guitar upside down with his left hand.
---
[10:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=638s) Austin Legends: Stevie Ray Vaughan and Antone's
The mention of Hendrix naturally turns the conversation toward Texas guitar icon Stevie Ray Vaughan. Rogan and Richards recall his legendary performance filmed live at the El Mocambo, where Vaughan stood directly on the horns of his prized Fender Stratocaster, rocking the neck back and forth until the strings popped, treating the instrument like an indestructible tool rather than an untouchable relic.
Rogan mentions that his comedy club features historic photos of Vaughan on stage from around 1983, decades before Rogan bought the venue. Richards remarks on visiting Antone's Nightclub in Austin simply to soak in the atmosphere. Rogan agrees that Antone's is an exceptional venue, noting he has watched Gary Clark Jr. perform there multiple times. However, Rogan shares a story about attending a concert there during the pandemic lockdowns: backstage in the green room, one person was infected, and nearly the entire crew caught COVID—except for Rogan himself.
---
[12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=720s) Defining Science: The Method vs. The Consensus
The Antone's outbreak prompts Richards to delve into the cultural and scientific debates surrounding COVID-19. Richards takes issue with being labeled a "science denier," countering that he views himself as a "science gatekeeper" defending the actual definition of science. He argues that public health authorities weaponized the phrase "trust the science" to push pharmaceutical compliance, distorting what science fundamentally represents. Citing Carl Sagan's famous observation that science is a skeptical way of interrogating the universe rather than a mere dogma or static body of knowledge, Richards emphasizes that rigorous scientific validation requires following strict methodology over time.
Richards points out that standard vaccine testing and peer-reviewed safety trials traditionally take roughly a decade, whereas COVID vaccines were rolled out in just eighteen months under massive corporate and financial pressure. By truncating the steps, he argues, institutions bypassed the very scientific method they claimed to uphold. Rogan agrees, stressing that the public was told no alternative treatments existed, which he considers absurd and commercially motivated.
---
[13:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=785s) Rogan's COVID Protocol and Media Backlash
Richards highlights how Rogan's own personal physicians were dismissed as pseudoscientific quacks by mainstream commentators after prescribing treatments that successfully resolved Rogan's infection. Rogan explains that while he understood people were gripped by fear and anxiety during the pandemic, he was stunned by the institutional hostility directed toward anyone who explored alternative recoveries. Rather than investigating why an extremely visible, health-conscious public figure recovered so rapidly, mainstream media narratives reduced his treatment regimen to taking "horse dewormer."
Rogan reflects on the irony that his lifestyle—focused on rigorous exercise, targeted supplementation, cold plunges, and hyperbaric therapy—was treated as a threat to public health. Even under the hypothetical assumption that vaccines were flawless, individuals with verified medical exemptions or allergies to vaccine ingredients (such as NFL quarterback Aaron Rodgers) were completely sidelined and left without acknowledged treatment paths. Richards and Rogan observe how dissenters were demonetized and censored across platforms, and note how little attention the subsequent congressional Fauci hearings received from those who had most fiercely defended the official narrative.
---
[16:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=968s) Academic Pride, Flint Dibble, and Easter Island Archaeology
The topic of intellectual honesty leads Richards to critique the archaeological establishment, pointing out that true scientists must admit when they are wrong. He brings up archaeologist Flint Dibble, who had previously mocked Richards during a livestream. Richards had explained that the earliest habitable archaeological layer on Easter Island (Rapa Nui) contains food crop evidence originating from both South America and Asia, proving transoceanic contact over a millennium ago.
Dibble initially clipped the claim to brand Richards as "confidently wrong" and full of nonsense, only to concede just five minutes later in the same stream that physical evidence of contact between the two regions does exist. However, Dibble carefully avoided acknowledging that this evidence had been documented specifically on Easter Island, choosing to protect his professional authority rather than admit an independent researcher was right. Rogan concludes that this personal resentment between mainstream academia and "interested amateurs" is entirely counterproductive, arguing that independent researchers who analyze raw data carefully should be welcomed by archaeologists as valuable assets rather than treated as enemies.
[18:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1088s) The Racism Smear, Written Records, and Baalbek
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards reflect on debates surrounding Graham Hancock, specifically criticizing the bad-faith tactic of labeling alternative history theories as inherently racist. Dan argues that accusing Hancock of racism for proposing a pre-existing advanced civilization makes no sense: whoever built the monuments in Africa or elsewhere were the ancient ancestors of the people living in those exact geographic regions. Joe agrees, emphasizing that whether monumental architecture in Egypt was erected in 2,500 BC or thousands of years earlier, it was constructed by the local inhabitants.
Dan addresses the common academic critique claiming alternative researchers only question the origins of monuments built by non-white civilizations while accepting European structures like the Colosseum or the Parthenon. He explains that race has nothing to do with it; the distinction comes down entirely to written records. Roman scribes documented the Colosseum obsessively because documenting history was central to Roman bureaucracy. Yet at Baalbek in Lebanon—a site conventionally attributed to the Romans—there is zero written record regarding the quarrying, transport, or placement of the colossal stone trilithons. Dan points out that alternative researchers question Baalbek just as aggressively as they question sites in the Americas or Africa. Rogan adds that if researchers like Jimmy Corsetti are correct that Atlantis was located in the Richat Structure, Atlantis would have been in Northwest Africa, making its inhabitants African. Richards views "Atlantis" as a broad umbrella term for a forgotten, globe-spanning culture, joking that ten thousand years from now, future humans will probably lump modern society together with the French as "the electronic civilization."
- **The Roman Scribe Paradox:** The Roman Empire kept meticulous administrative records of civil construction, making the complete absence of documentation regarding the movement of Baalbek's massive 800-to-1,000-ton trilithon stones a glaring anomaly.
- **The Double Standard:** Dan stresses that inquiry is driven by the presence or absence of contemporary records, debunking the accusation that alternative historians selectively interrogate non-European monuments.
---
[20:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1221s) GSP, the Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference, and Randall Carlson's 1980s Rap
The conversation turns to mixed martial arts legend Georges St-Pierre (GSP). Joe praises GSP's boundless curiosity, open-mindedness, and humble demeanor, marveling that one of the deadliest cage fighters in human history behaves like the sweetest man in the world. Richards shares an interaction on Instagram where he commented on GSP’s intense leg workouts, saying his own legs would never look like that because he sits at a computer reading and smoking weed all day. GSP disarmingly replied, "I trade my legs for your brain any day," prompting Dan to laugh in disbelief that a world champion would undervalue his multimillion-dollar athletic gifts.
Richards announces that GSP has officially confirmed his attendance at the upcoming Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference, held October 16–18 at ACL Live in Austin, Texas. Rogan jokingly nicknames the event the "Rogan Trinity" because it blends pyramids, comedy, and high-level fighting. The conference lineup features researchers and creators such as Dan Richards, Randall Carlson, Jahannah James, and the "Mystery Boys"—Duncan Trussell and Curt Jaimungal. While looking at the promotional poster, Rogan jokes about the AI-generated imagery ("Look at all the pseudo science on one picture. I love it"), noting that one figure resembles Duncan Trussell on testosterone replacement therapy.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: The Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference Lineup
accDescr: Diagram illustrating the participants and core themes of the Austin conference discussed by Dan and Joe.
subgraph Conference["Quest for Ancient Civilizations (ACL Live, Austin)"]
A["Dan Richards"]
B["Randall Carlson"]
C["Georges St-Pierre (GSP)"]
D["Duncan Trussell & Curt Jaimungal"]
end
subgraph Themes["The 'Rogan Trinity' Core Themes"]
T1["Ancient Megaliths & Lost Civilizations"]
T2["Combat Sports & Human Potential"]
T3["Esoteric Ideas & Stand-Up Banter"]
end
A --> T1
B --> T1
C --> T2
D --> T3
```
Richards drops a revelation about Randall Carlson: during a stay at a shared Airbnb in Sedona, Arizona, Carlson began rapping original verses over morning coffee. Dan was nursing his morning bowl and drinking coffee when Carlson started spitting bars written back in the late 1980s. Rogan is stunned to learn that the geologist and esoteric scholar is a longtime hip-hop head, briefly confusing him with Billy Carson before telling Jamie Vernon to query Perplexity AI about Carlson's hip-hop history, picturing "Santa Claus spitting bars."
---
[23:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1428s) Chiari Malformation, Trepanation, and Cranial Modification in Ancient Populations
Returning to the topic of mysterious ancient remains and elongated skulls, Joe asks whether practices like artificial cranial deformation in South America were done to mimic a preexisting population or distinct species. Dan explains that his perspective has evolved beyond simple cultural imitation. Pulling up CT scans, he highlights Chiari malformation—a condition where brain tissue (specifically the cerebellum) herniates through the base of the skull into the spinal canal because the cranium is too small to accommodate the brain.
Richards argues that this structural mismatch may have been an evolutionary consequence of interbreeding between archaic human lineages, such as Neanderthals, Denisovans, and *Homo sapiens*. If hybrid populations inherited brains that were too large for their skulls, the result would have been severe, chronic intracranial pressure:
* **Surgical Relief via Trepanation:** To relieve unbearable brain pressure, ancient peoples performed trepanation—surgically drilling or scraping holes into the skull, a practice documented extensively in Paracas and across ancient Peru.
* **Prophylactic Head Binding:** Infant cranial elongation (cranial modification) may have originated as a deliberate medical adaptation across generations so children would avoid the agonizing, debilitating headaches suffered by their ancestors.
* **Sutural Irregularities (Wormian and Inca Bones):** When cranial plates undergo mechanical strain or developmental imbalance, extra sutural bone fragments develop along the back of the skull. Known as Wormian bones or "Inca bones" due to their prevalence in ancient Peruvian populations, they also appear in Neanderthals, as well as ancient remains from Easter Island, the Pacific Northwest, and Asia.
Dan theorizes that South American populations were intermingling distinct genetic lineages. While some combinations resulted in painful deformities, other genetic variations were revered or spiritualized. He points to the recurring "were-jaguar" human-animal hybrids depicted in Olmec iconography, suggesting these stylized figures may have been inspired by real congenital conditions such as dental dysplasia, where children naturally develop prominent fangs.
[26:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1603s) Dental Anomalies and the Cover-Up of Elongated Skulls
The discussion opens on unusual anatomical anomalies, including ancient skulls exhibiting multiple rows of teeth or cleft palates. When Joe Rogan asks whether ancient humans naturally possessed extra rows of teeth or if it was merely a malformation, Dan Richards explains that genetic anomalies and interbreeding can produce extreme physical traits, such as people who persistently grow teeth or develop unusual cranial structures.
Richards pivots to what he argues is an ongoing historical suppression of unusual human remains. He highlights the Pacific Northwest, specifically Mount Coffin in Longview, Washington. According to Richards, when Lieutenant Charles Wilkes visited the site—noting that Wilkes's father was allegedly connected to the British Skull and Bones society—he encountered an indigenous above-ground burial ground containing roughly 3,000 bodies. In that region, having an elongated skull was a mark of noble, freeborn status, and Richards contends all 3,000 individuals likely shared this trait. However, after Wilkes's departure, a campfire purportedly burned the entire burial site down, and the skulls vanished. Richards points to historical looting where settlers sat atop burial mounds, plundered the bones, and sold them privately, dispersing them into undocumented collections.
- Mount Coffin in Longview, Washington contained an estimated 3,000 above-ground burials of high-status indigenous individuals.
- Lieutenant Charles Wilkes visited Mount Coffin before the entire site was lost to an accidental campfire fire, erasing thousands of specimens.
- Elongated craniums in the Pacific Northwest were historically associated with nobility; those without modified skulls were often enslaved or commoners.
---
[28:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1730s) The Rockefeller Connection, Paracas Bundles, and Institutional Erasure
Richards details how elite collectors acquired these unique artifacts, bringing up John D. Rockefeller's involvement with Peruvian archaeology in the 1930s. When Peruvian archaeologist Julio C. Tello discovered elongated skulls at Paracas, his preservation efforts were severely underfunded, operating on around $300 a year. Rockefeller learned of the discoveries and traveled to Peru, spending $3,000—ten times Tello’s annual budget—to acquire four pristine Paracas funerary bundles out of roughly 300 available.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Acquisition and Disappearance of Paracas Skulls
accDescr: Flow showing Rockefeller funding Tello, acquiring funerary bundles, and their subsequent disappearance from public records.
subgraph Paracas ["Paracas Excavations (1930s)"]
A["Julio C. Tello excavates ~300 funerary bundles"]
B["Operating budget: $300/year"]
end
subgraph Acquisition ["Rockefeller Purchase"]
C["Rockefeller travels to Peru"]
D["Pays $3,000 for 4 elite bundles"]
end
subgraph Fate ["Institutional Black Hole"]
E["Reportedly sent to NYC museums (The Met / AMNH)"]
F["No public photographs, sketches, or clear repatriation records"]
end
A --> C
B --> D
C --> D
D --> E
E --> F
```
These four bundles were allegedly displayed at the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the American Museum of Natural History in New York, yet Richards points out that virtually no public photographs or sketches exist today, with conflicting records on whether they were repatriated. He argues that any wealthy patron cherry-picking four out of hundreds of bundles would naturally take the most extreme and exotic specimens. Richards asserts that similar specimens are quietly disappearing from museum shelves worldwide. He references comparative academic maps tracking intentional cranial deformation published a century ago versus modern versions, noting that modern maps erase documented regions like the island of Niue and ancient Hawaii, where an estimated 8.9% of prehistoric skeletal finds reportedly showed elongated craniums.
- Julio C. Tello ran the Paracas excavations on an annual budget of only $300.
- Rockefeller paid $3,000 for four selected funerary bundles, which then disappeared from public view with no surviving photographs.
- In prehistoric Hawaii, approximately 8.9% of excavated human remains reportedly possessed elongated skulls.
- Modern peer-reviewed maps of artificial cranial deformation omit regions that were thoroughly documented a century earlier.
---
[31:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1870s) Evolutionary Hybridization, The Candelabra, and Paracas Textiles
Richards introduces his theory regarding hybridization between ancient hominin populations, such as Neanderthals and *Homo sapiens*. He argues that interbreeding between hominins with different skull shapes and brain capacities led both to natural genetic mutations and to deliberate symbolic traditions commemorating the mixing of lineages. To illustrate this, Richards directs Jamie to display a diagram of a genealogical tree and compares its branching structure to the famous Paracas Candelabra geoglyph in Peru, which can be seen up to twelve miles out at sea.
Richards next examines an intricate Paracas funerary textile depicting two monkey-like beings flanking a central, seemingly pregnant entity, connected at the head. Rogan jokes that the artwork looks like the result of an intense DMT or Ayahuasca trip, noting that he recognized the entity in the middle:
> "I've met that guy before... I met that guy over there."
Richards suggests the tapestry symbolizes the deliberate blending of distinct bloodlines. The conversation touches upon the tridactyl (three-fingered and three-toed) mummies discovered in Peru. Richards speculates that ancient populations in South America were dealing with naturally occurring genetic mutations—including irregular skull dimensions—and subsequently exaggerated these traits by binding infant heads, creating the extreme anomalies seen in Paracas craniums.
---
[34:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2056s) Infant Head Binding and the Physical Reality of Cranial Deformation
Examining historical photos and illustrations of Indigenous individuals with cranial binding, Rogan and Richards focus on skulls with pronounced bulbous occipital lobes. Richards references Chief Comcomly of the Chinook nation, whose skull was notably modified. Rogan wonders why artistic representations of Comcomly often downplayed his elongated skull while historical accounts documented it.
Jamie pulls up an archival image of an infant strapped into a wooden cradleboard head-flattening device. The image prompts a horrified reaction from both men as they consider the sheer pain of the procedure. Richards quotes a regional history text describing a firsthand observer's account of a child undergoing cranial binding, stating that the pressure made the infant's "eyes bulge out of their skull like a mouse caught in a trap." Richards adds that if an infant already had congenital skull abnormalities or high intracranial pressure, parents might have resorted to mechanical binding as a desperate intervention to alleviate lifelong agony, while simultaneously aligning the child with the cultural elite.
[35:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2145s) The Peruvian Skulls and Missing Sutures
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards examine the physical anomalies of the elongated skulls found in Peru, specifically focusing on Paracas skulls. While skeptics routinely argue that the cranial volume is identical to normal humans and merely reshaped through artificial cranial deformation (cradle-boarding or wrapping), Richards notes that those who measure the cranial capacity directly often claim it is substantially larger. Rogan points to a recurring image pulled up by producer Jamie Vernon, marveling at how non-human the specimen appears. Beyond the sheer volume, Rogan is stunned by the eye sockets, noting they are massive compared to typical human skulls. He jokes that if you invited someone with a face like that to a party, your friends would whisper, *"Yo, who's the guy who keeps reading everybody's mind?"*
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Peruvian Skull Anomalies Debate
accDescr: Diverging views on physical traits of Paracas skulls between skeptical consensus and independent claims.
subgraph Interpretations["Competing Interpretations"]
D["Artificial cranial deformation only (Skeptical view)"]
E["Genetic hybridization / Denisovan-Neanderthal traits (Alternative view)"]
end
Claims --> D
Claims --> E
```
Richards highlights another biological oddity: several of the skulls appear to lack the sagittal suture entirely, a seam typically joining the parietal bones of the human skull. He connects these structural differences to archaic hominin lineage research, pointing out similar anomalies identified in discussions around Denisovan and Neanderthal DNA. As they view an extraordinary specimen on screen, Rogan questions whether it could be artificial intelligence or a fake, but both acknowledge the reality of the artifact. They speculate that the skull may be locked away in a private collection—perhaps in a Gilded Age mansion in Newport, Rhode Island, stored inside a glass display case away from public scrutiny.
---
[38:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2298s) Censorship, Repatriation, and Institutional Excuses
The conversation pivots to why physical evidence of these unique remains seems absent from mainstream view. Richards recounts his personal frustration with online research, explaining that academic articles or references he links in his video descriptions frequently turn into dead links within weeks. He mentions having to download and back up materials tracking the acquisition of skulls by figures like the Rockefellers because public traces keep vanishing. When institutional records are scrutinized, museum officials often claim the remains were either repatriated or retained without assigned catalog numbers—an explanation Richards rejects as absurd for major historical collections.
Richards criticizes the universal rationale institutions deploy to justify locking away skulls, arguing that the exact same cover story is applied across wildly disparate regions—from Papua New Guinea, China, and Easter Island to Hawaii, the Pacific Northwest, and Paracas. Curators routinely claim indigenous groups fear that displaying skulls surrenders part of their souls. Richards argues this rationale flattens diverse cultures into a single narrative, noting that even within a single community like Mennonites in Pennsylvania, neighboring families hold fundamentally divergent beliefs:
- The standard institutional claim cites the protection of indigenous soul-belief traditions across the entire Pacific Rim.
- Richards points out that ancient and modern indigenous customs varied drastically, and the push to remove and lock away specimens originated from European museum curators rather than the original communities.
- Inquiries about artifacts often lead to dead databases, missing catalog numbers, or placeholders reading *"no image available."*
- Richards mentions a rare historical copy referencing these collections that he was only able to track down inside a library in Malta.
---
[40:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2438s) Selective Breeding and South American Trophy Skulls
Richards suggests the deliberate suppression may stem from discomfort with what the artifacts imply: an ancient, deliberate selective breeding program. While Rogan questions whether this was simply natural human interbreeding, Richards argues the Olmec and Paracas cultures may have deliberately paired individuals possessing specific deformities or traits to cultivate a distinct lineage. In Olmec and other Mesoamerican art, statues depict leaders or parents presenting "jaguar babies"—infants bearing severe facial clefts and missing teeth. In these societies, congenital anomalies were not viewed as defects:
- Spanish chronicles recorded that individuals born with cleft lips or polydactyly (six fingers) were deemed holy and assigned roles as temple workers.
- Rather than viewing abnormalities as afflictions, the culture elevated them to divine, feline-associated statuses.
Jamie brings up photographs of South American trophy skulls, including a specimen featuring a cleft lip that Richards identifies as a prized noble. Richards explains that ancient South American warriors did not shrink these heads; they simply drilled a hole into the forehead, ran a cord through the bone, and wore the mummified skull—complete with dried skin and hair—dangling directly from their belt as a display of power. Rogan notes the stark reality of someone walking around with a preserved head wrapped around their waist, while Richards adds that many trophy skulls excavated by archaeologists belonged to young women aged 13 to 16.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Holy Deformities and Status in Paracas and Olmec Cultures
accDescr: The transformation of congenital abnormalities into sacred and elite status.
[43:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2588s) The Nazca Tridactyl Mummies and Mass Sacrifice
Rogan asks Richards for his take on the controversial Nazca tridactyl mummies. Richards is candid, stating that some of the small, desiccated mummies look completely fabricated—resembling little plaster or cake-like figurines. However, Rogan points to the larger specimens subjected to modern CT scans, which reveal continuous skeletal structures and have been radiocarbon-dated to around 1,200 years old. Rogan emphasizes that creating complex anatomical forgeries over a millennium ago makes little sense, expressing disbelief that the scientific establishment has not mounted a coordinated, massive research effort to definitively analyze their DNA.
The discussion shifts back to the sheer brutality and alien nature of ancient American civilizations. Rogan reflects on how modern minds struggle to comprehend cultures like the Aztecs, where ritual slaughter was not an occasional fringe event, but a dominant cultural and cosmological engine conducted on a staggering, industrial scale.
[44:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2681s) Destruction of Mesoamerican Codices and the Teotihuacan Manuscript
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards reflect on how ritual violence shaped the conquest of the Americas. Rogan points out that the sheer brutality of Aztec ritual killings alienated neighboring tribes, making it easy for Hernán Cortés to rally Indigenous allies eager to overthrow them. Richards wryly notes the grim irony that awaited those allies once the Spanish took complete control. One of Richards' favorite historical episodes captures this betrayal: Spanish friars instructed the local populations to gather all their Mesoamerican codices together under the guise of cataloging and preserving them on shelves, only to systematically set the priceless repositories of ancient knowledge ablaze.
Only a tiny handful of authentic pre-Columbian codices survived the purge. Richards mentions that just three years prior, the Mexican government acquired a rare set of codices from a Mexican family who had privately held them for roughly 500 years. One of these newly surfaced documents notably details the construction of Teotihuacan. The government purchased them for approximately $250,000—a sum Richards discussed with Matt Beall, who remarked that a quarter of a million dollars was astonishingly cheap for such monumental historical artifacts.
---
[45:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2731s) Decorated Trophy Skulls, Dayak Tribal Art, and Genetic Deformations
The conversation shifts as Richards pulls up images of bizarre tribal trophy skulls from Asia, provoking stunned reactions from Rogan. Looking at human skulls fitted with tusks, wood carvings, and strange attachments, Rogan jokes that they look like movie props straight out of *Hellraiser* or *Predator*. Some specimens feature horns protruding from the nasal cavity, while others appear to wear headgear resembling headphones. Amid disturbing labels like "human child trophy skull," Rogan notices an "info email" tag on the display, questioning whether these macabre relics are actively being sold online.
Richards explains that while some items are replicas crafted by artisans on Etsy—under sellers with unapologetic names like "Monster"—many are authentic antique Dayak trophy skulls from Borneo dating to the early 20th century. Rogan notes one listing originating from a private collection in Thousand Oaks, California, complete with high price tags and provenance documentation. Richards observes that several tribal and ancient skulls display physical malformations such as cleft lips (hare lips). He theorizes that such distinct facial deformities frequently manifest when modern human genetics intermingle with archaic Denisovan or Neanderthal lineages.
---
[48:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2886s) The Stolen Skull of Chinook Chief Comcomly
Richards recounts the historical injustice inflicted on Chief Comcomly, a prominent leader of the Chinook people in the Pacific Northwest during the early 19th century. Comcomly was a shrewd diplomat who maintained close ties with early fur traders and settlers, even marrying off his daughters to trappers. When younger warriors proposed massacring the white newcomers, Comcomly urged restraint. He pointed out the superior quality of their woven cloth and weapons, cautioning his people that the settlers had arrived without their women and children; once their families followed, an overwhelming force would inevitably descend upon the region.
When Comcomly died, his people broke tradition and hid his remains instead of conducting a standard above-ground canoe burial because they feared desecration. Despite these precautions, a British physician severed Comcomly’s head and shipped the skull to the Royal Naval Hospital in Haslar, England. The skull remained in Britain for over a century, defaced with an engraved historical description carved directly across the back of the cranium. It was finally repatriated to the Chinook Nation in the 1970s. Richards points out that such dark episodes of grave-robbing explain why major institutions like the Smithsonian have historically been guarded and reluctant about publicly releasing Indigenous skeletal remains.
---
[49:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2965s) Paracas Elongated Skulls: Genetic Engineering or Human Subspecies?
Rogan asks whether the famous elongated skulls found in Paracas, Peru, can be explained strictly by intentional cradle-boarding and artificial cranial deformation, or if they point toward an entirely distinct human species. Richards leans firmly toward the presence of an unknown archaic species or lineage. While stating he does not subscribe to ancient astronaut theories, he admits that if extraterrestrial or non-standard genetic tampering ever took place, the Paracas region represents the closest thing to physical evidence. He highlights the strange convergence of sky-facing geoglyphs, coastal monuments, and radical anatomical variations.
Richards argues that extreme cranial volume and anomalies like hydrocephalus appear at significantly elevated frequencies within Paracas remains. Rather than being random birth defects, he suggests these traits could stem from archaic hybridization:
- Searching medical literature for specific cranial deformations paired with Denisovan or Neanderthal DNA consistently reveals documented genetic correlations.
- The occurrence of severe hydrocephalus—resulting in massive, expanded craniums—increases when archaic genomes mingle with *Homo sapiens*.
- The Paracas Candelabra geoglyph, carved into the coastal hillside and visible 12 miles out to sea, could serve as a regional marker or symbolic "family tree" indicating where archaic hybrid lineages were actively bred.
---
[51:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3075s) The Candelabra Geoglyph, Easter Island Skulls, and the "Family Tree" Theory
Rogan questions how Richards connects the Paracas Candelabra to genetic lineages. Richards concedes that interpreting the Candelabra as a genealogical family tree is his own working hypothesis, but he points to intriguing cross-Pacific parallels. Carved human skulls recovered from Easter Island (Rapa Nui) feature incised motifs that closely mirror the forked, three-pronged layout of the coastal Peruvian geoglyph. While Easter Island once possessed its own elongated skull specimens, nearly all have disappeared from public archives.
Jamie pulls up academic papers on Rapa Nui modified crania, locating examples of deceased human skulls engraved with intricate petroglyphs, including the famous Birdman motif and tripartite forked branches. Examining the diagrams side by side, Rogan notes that while the designs are not strictly identical, the three-pronged structure is remarkably similar. Richards reasserts that the symbol might represent ancestral lineages branching outward, while Rogan lightheartedly points out that another nearby petroglyph on the skull cranium looks suspiciously like a phallus entering a vulva etched right onto the deceased person's head.
[54:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3241s) Genetic Anomalies and Cultural Prestige in Ancient Peru
Dan Richards and Joe Rogan joke about ancient skull art and carvings, comparing them to early bad tattoo work before turning to physical anthropology. Richards points out that cranial Wormian bones are specifically called "Inca bones" for a reason: they appear with notable frequency among the Inca and broader Andean populations. South American and Peruvian populations also exhibit unusually high historical rates of cleft palates, polydactyly, and distinct dental traits. Paired with extreme cranial modification—elongated skulls that "frankly beggared belief"—the archaeological record suggests these societies did not merely tolerate genetic anomalies; they exalted them.
Richards argues that societal reverence could easily drive selective breeding or artificial imitation. If a culture views certain deformities as signs of divine favor or intellectual distinction, people naturally strive to produce children who display those features. Rogan agrees, noting that if an individual born with a cleft palate and unusual teeth also possessed extraordinary intellect—"a little Einsteiny"—society would quickly associate those physical markers with greatness, turning an anomaly into an elite status symbol. Rogan likens the cultural imitation to European aristocrats adopting powdered wigs in the seventeenth century to conceal hair loss caused by syphilis: once royalty set the precedent, the rest of society rushed to follow the trend.
---
[56:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3412s) Tridactyl Mummies and the GLI3 Genetic Variant
The conversation pivots to the controversial Peruvian mummies discovered near Nazca, which feature three-fingered hands, three-toed feet, elongated craniums, and unusual rib and vertebral counts. Rogan emphasizes that if carbon-dating figures placing some remains around 1,200 years old are accurate, it defies belief that ancient artisans could fabricate biological fakes capable of passing modern computed tomography (CT) scans. The specimens are covered in white diatomaceous earth, with intact desiccated soft tissue and internal anatomy that would have been entirely invisible to ancient observers. Fabricating internal bone structures merely to fool medical imaging a millennium later makes no logical sense.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: GLI3 Gene Variant Effects in Animal Studies
accDescr: Flowchart showing how archaic human GLI3 gene variants produce skeletal anomalies in mouse models.
subgraph ArchaicDNA["Archaic Genetic Source"]
A["Archaic GLI3 Variant<br>(Neanderthal & Denisovan)"]
end
subgraph Phenotypes["Observed Phenotypic Mutations"]
B["Extra Ribs & Vertebrae"]
C["Polydactyly<br>(Extra digits)"]
D["Misshapen Cranium"]
E["Altered Dental Morphology"]
end
A --> B
A --> C
A --> D
A --> E
```
Richards connects these bizarre anatomical presentations to genetic experiments involving the *GLI3* gene. When modern researchers engineered mice to express archaic *GLI3* variants found in Neanderthals and Denisovans, the animals developed marked skeletal anomalies:
- Extra ribs and supernumerary vertebrae
- Cranial misshapenness and severe dental morphology shifts
- Polydactyly (producing additional functional or malformed digits)
The eerie results prompt Rogan to joke about laboratory mice becoming super-intelligent and plotting escapes, prompting Richards to crack a *Pinky and the Brain* reference: "Pinky, today we conquer the world."
---
[58:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3535s) Aleš Hrdlička and the Disappearing Giant Bones
Rogan asks Richards whether he believes the Smithsonian Institution has historically suppressed or stored giant human skeletons. Richards admits that during his previous visit he would have dismissed the idea, assuming the remains were simply tall individuals around 6'5". However, deeper archival research changed his perspective, pointing directly to the controversial legacy of Aleš Hrdlička, the Czech-born physical anthropologist who served as the first curator of the Smithsonian's physical anthropology division.
According to Richards, Hrdlička held rigid theories akin to an expanded skeletal phrenology, convinced that skeletal dimensions could scientifically substantiate racial hierarchies and white superiority. When excavators repeatedly uncovered large Native American skeletons that matched or exceeded European builds, Hrdlička aggressively campaigned throughout the 1930s to debunk them, insisting that early excavators lacked basic competency and mismeasured bones. Richards compares Hrdlička's public dismissals to a guilty driver pulling out a pack of cigarettes to prove he doesn't possess contraband: he deliberately exhibited normal-sized specimens to declare that all anomalous reports were fraudulent, while the original records and physical remains were systematically sidelined or lost from public view.
---
[01:00:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3640s) The Adena Mound Discoveries and the Denisovan Giant Hypothesis
Richards highlights an egregious case from 1959 involving Dr. Don Dragoo, an archaeologist at the Carnegie Museum of Natural History. While excavating an Adena culture burial mound, Dragoo recorded a skeleton whose in-ground measurements indicated a living individual standing 7 feet 3 inches tall. Critics later dismissed the finding on the grounds that it was "just an in-ground measurement," even though Dragoo was a professional department head working fifteen years after modern forensic anthropometric formulas were established. The specimen vanished into institutional collections, illustrating a persistent pattern where gigantic bones and elongated skulls become impossible for independent researchers to track down.
Rogan and Richards speculate on whether these exceptionally tall individuals represented isolated genetic clusters or remnants of archaic hominin lineages:
- **Archaic Introgression:** Traits like extreme stature and polydactyly may have entered modern human populations through regional Denisovan or Neanderthal admixture.
- **Natural Stature Variation:** Denisovans are already known to have possessed substantially robust, larger skeletons—often estimated at several inches taller on average than contemporary modern humans.
- **Outliers Within Archaic Populations:** Just as modern humans exhibit natural height extremes—from average individuals to outliers like Shaquille O'Neal—archaic populations would have had their own upper percentiles.
- **New Asian Fossil Finds:** Recent hominin discoveries in China, such as *Homo juluensis* and the Harbin cranium (*Homo longi*, or "Dragon Man"), continue to expand the physical profile of eastern Eurasian hominins suspected of belonging to the Denisovan radiation.
[01:03:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3799s) Modern Giants, Ancient DNA, and Mound Excavations
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards discuss the physical dimensions of ancient hominins, noting that while ancient DNA provides the vast majority of what is known about them, fossil bones leave open questions regarding their true stature. Wondering whether historical accounts of twelve-foot-tall humans could hold any truth, Rogan considers modern extremes of human height. While historically famous individuals like Robert Wadlow reached extreme heights due to pituitary gigantism and tumors, Rogan points out Sultan Kösen of Turkey, recorded at 8 feet 2.8 inches in 2011, who does not display the classic cranial misshapenness associated with severe gigantism. Richards finds it intriguing that Kösen hails from Turkey—a geographic region tied to some of humanity's oldest monumental history, such as Göbekli Tepe—wondering whether exceptional height traces back to an ancient genetic lineage or sporadic isolated mutations.
Turning to historical reports of oversized skeletons unearthed from Native American burial mounds, Rogan asks if anomalies like polydactyly (six fingers and six toes) or double rows of teeth were universal in these accounts. Richards explains that while those traits appear in certain records, they are not present in every case. Given the proliferation of sensational 19th-century newspaper hoaxes from everyday farmers, Richards remains skeptical of casual reports, focusing instead on roughly a dozen credible accounts documented by individuals with reputations to protect. In particular, he highlights respected professional anthropologists such as Dr. Don Dragoo. Richards laments that modern academics attempt to dismiss Dragoo’s findings by claiming he merely took in-ground measurements of disturbed skeletons, even though Dragoo's writings explicitly clarified that his anatomical calculations indicated an individual of that massive height in life.
- Sultan Kösen of Turkey was measured at 8 feet 2.8 inches (251 cm) in 2011.
- Robert Wadlow remains the tallest documented human in modern medical history, caused by pituitary hyperplasia.
- Anomalies frequently associated with historical American mound giant reports include polydactyly (six fingers and toes) and double rows of teeth.
- Dan Richards emphasizes that Dr. Don Dragoo, an authority on the Adena culture, documented oversized skeletal remains that modern skeptics routinely minimize.
---
[01:06:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3990s) Is Archaeology Actually a Science? The Problem of Replicability
The discussion pivots into a philosophical critique of archaeology itself. Richards argues that despite the field's authoritative posturing, archaeology is fundamentally not an empirical science in the traditional sense, comparing its social function to that of theology. While scientific disciplines rest entirely upon the cornerstone of reproducibility—such as combining hydrogen and oxygen in a lab to reliably produce water—archaeological excavation is inherently non-replicable. If someone unearths a unique artifact in their backyard, another researcher cannot dig up the exact same dirt and independently reproduce the event. In Richards' view, the discipline fundamentally relies on testimonial faith: whether one chooses to believe Joseph Smith finding golden plates, a farmer finding an arrowhead, or a museum finding a singular relic.
Rogan pushes back, pointing out that archaeology incorporates rigorous protocols, chains of custody, documented excavations on camera, and hard physical sciences like radiocarbon dating. Richards counters that while archaeology *uses* scientific tools—specifically physics and chemistry for dating—the excavation and narrative interpretation of material culture remain historical rather than scientific. He notes that historians and even video game speedrunners use rigorous scientific methodology without claiming to be hard scientists. Furthermore, while astronomers cannot trigger a supernova on command, hundreds of independent telescopes across the globe record the exact same event simultaneously, creating verifiable, overlapping data sets. In archaeology, unique one-off discoveries like the Antikythera mechanism cannot be independently re-excavated, meaning interpretation ultimately hinges on whether the find aligns with an established paradigm.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Empirical Science versus Archaeological Excavation
accDescr: Chart contrasting reproducible experimental science with non-reproducible archaeological recovery.
subgraph HardScience["Empirical Sciences (Physics / Chemistry)"]
A["Controlled Experiment"] --> B["Identical Repetition"]
B --> C["Reproducible Data"]
end
subgraph ArchField["Archaeological Excavation"]
D["Destructive Ground Dig"] --> E["Unique Artifact Recovery"]
E --> F["Testimonial Chain of Custody"]
F --> G["Historical Interpretation & Faith"]
end
```
---
[01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4200s) Academic Dogma, Flint Dibble, and the Gatekeeping of History
Richards argues that the lack of hard scientific grounding causes insecure establishment archaeologists to aggressively defend institutional consensus, pointing to the long-standing "Clovis First" model as an example of dogma masquerading as settled science. Rogan recalls his debate with archaeologist Flint Dibble, where Dibble downplayed the historical suppression of dissident researchers and the destruction of careers as mere routine "academic debate." Both Rogan and Richards dismiss this characterization, emphasizing that mainstream academia has a long, documented history of actively sabotaging researchers whose empirical discoveries contradict prevailing models.
Richards cites early American physical anthropology—dominated by hardline gatekeepers who insisted humans had only been in the Americas for 3,000 years—where proposing an earlier date meant professional ruin until the undeniable discovery of the Folsom point forced a paradigm shift. Rogan observes that this institutional hostility is fundamentally rooted in human ego, particularly male academic posturing and the deep-seated desire to act as the supreme authority and gatekeeper of human knowledge. Rather than letting new evidence lead where it may, established figures puff out their chests to protect their status and protect inherited narratives from outside scrutiny.
[01:11:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4310s) Academic Egos, Independent Creators, and Science Communication
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards consider the professional frustration experienced by mainstream academics like Flint Dibble. Rogan points out the heavy hit to an academic's ego when someone devotes their entire career to formal study, only to watch an independent author like Graham Hancock write alternative history books that massively outsell academic publications. Rogan notes that academics are constrained by institutional bureaucracy—chasing grant funding, seeking approvals, and fighting for tenure under the thumb of university hierarchies. By contrast, independent creators like Jimmy Corsetti, Luke Caverns, and Ben van Kerkwyk can travel directly to ancient sites with cameras, produce extensive video documentation, and build deep subject-matter expertise on topics like the Old Kingdom. All the historical records and data are publicly accessible, and Rogan suggests mainstream archaeologists should treat these obsessive researchers as a valuable collaborative resource rather than dismissing them out of envy.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Research Paths Comparison
accDescr: Contrasting academic constraints against independent field content creators.
subgraph Academics["Mainstream Academia"]
A["Grant Funding & Approvals"] --> B["Tenure & Hierarchy"]
B --> C["Strict Institutional Output"]
end
subgraph Creators["Independent Researchers"]
D["Direct Field Exploration"] --> E["Public Data Synthesis"]
E --> F["Broad Media Outreach"]
end
```
Dan illustrates how academics mishandle science communication using an online exchange involving Jimmy Corsetti. About two years earlier, Corsetti posted on X wondering whether biblical Nephilim could correspond to archaic humans such as Denisovans or Neanderthals. Because Denisovans were not widely known at the time to be taller than modern humans, professional archaeologists dogpiled on him with mockery, calling him stupid. Dan explains that an effective science communicator would redirect that natural curiosity constructively—noting that while Denisovans and Neanderthals were shorter, other archaic hominids like *Gigantopithecus* were taller, and encouraging him to dive deeper into the fossil record. Dan argues that shoving eager learners down the rabbit hole of real research is genuine science communication, whereas sneering at them is just gatekeeping.
[01:13:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4435s) Incomplete Fossil Records and Deep Human Antiquity
Rogan argues that humanity must approach ancient history under a fundamental premise: we possess only a tiny fraction of the total data concerning past hominids. Fossilization is exceptionally rare, meaning that our current picture of human lineages is inherently incomplete. He stresses that finding a single unrecognized bone in a Siberian cave can instantly rewrite the human family tree. Citing arguments presented by researcher Michael Button, Rogan questions the conventional assumption that advanced tool-making, complex cognition, and sophisticated civilization only developed in the last few thousand years. Since anatomically modern humans have existed for hundreds of thousands of years with identical brain structures, Rogan finds it completely logical that earlier civilizations could have flourished and vanished, leaving no physical trace after thousands of years of natural erosion, weathering, and geological turnover.
Dan agrees with the premise and expresses his appreciation for seeing fellow independent creators—such as Luke Caverns and Michael Button—appear on Rogan's podcast over the prior year and a half.
- Anatomically modern humans share identical brain capacity and biology stretching back hundreds of thousands of years.
- Natural weathering, geological processes, and the earth's natural cycles can erase physical structures and technological artifacts over deep time.
- The archaeological record represents only a sliver of total biological and cultural history due to the rarity of fossil preservation.
[01:16:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4564s) Separating Flawed Personalities from Valid Scientific Data
Dan mentions receiving a high compliment from comedian Duncan Trussell, who compared Dan’s intense, obsessive passion for research to that of Sir Isaac Newton. Dan jokes that although he does not possess Newton's intellect, he might match Newton's chemical load, referencing Newton's practice of alchemy and fatal mercury poisoning. Dan uses Newton to critique modern cancel culture: Newton was an alchemist and an anti-Trinitarian, yet rejecting his work on those ideological grounds would have deprived civilization of calculus and the theory of gravity. Dan emphasizes that researchers do not need to agree on 80% of an individual's personal or political views if their remaining 20% brings rigorous, empirical data to the table.
To illustrate this, Dan highlights 19th-century Danish antiquarian Carl Christian Rafn. Operating in the 1830s with racially prejudiced assumptions, Rafn refused to believe Indigenous Americans had the capability to carve complex petroglyphs, assuming white men must have made them. Despite starting with a biased premise, Rafn conducted meticulous historical and sagic research that ultimately helped establish that Norse explorers had arrived in the Americas prior to Christopher Columbus. Dan argues that even when someone's personal worldview is disagreeable, their factual research can still produce lasting, valid data.
[01:18:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4680s) Guilt by Association, Atlantis, and Meme Co-optation
Rogan and Dan tackle the common academic tactic of smearing alternative history theories—particularly discussions around Atlantis—by labeling them inherently racist. Rogan notes that critics like Flint Dibble dismiss alternative civilizational theories by tying them to fringe 19th- and 20th-century white supremacists who appropriated Atlantis mythology. Rogan counters that researchers like Graham Hancock, Dan Richards, or Ben van Kerkwyk do not promote racial doctrines, and smearing modern researchers by historical association is dishonest. Dan points out that bad actors routinely misappropriate legitimate poverty, crime, and demographic statistics, but nobody advocates abolishing statistical science just because racists cite the numbers.
To demonstrate how malicious groups co-opt cultural artifacts, Dan recalls the 1980s McDonald's advertising character "Mac Tonight"—a moon-headed lounge pianist singing a parody of "Mack the Knife" ("When the clock strikes half past six, babe / Time to head for golden lights..."). Decades later, internet trolls turned the character into racist "Moon Man" memes with text-to-speech software. Rogan compares this to the creator of Pepe the Frog (Matt Furie), who was horrified when his cartoon was appropriated for hate memes. Rogan and Dan conclude that weaponizing accusations of racism against alternative pyramid theories is simply an intellectual shortcut designed to shut down open debate and turn public opinion against dissenting views.
[01:20:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4805s) Tribalism, Political Pressures, and Bad-Faith Censorship
Dan Richards shares his frustration over how polarized modern culture has become, noting that friends and followers frequently hound him during election cycles for failing to endorse candidates. He refuses to participate, pointing out that his platform is dedicated to ancient history rather than modern political punditry. He questions why anyone would look to pop stars like Beyoncé or independent history researchers for political analysis. Joe Rogan observes that a huge portion of the country acts like "little Hitlers," convinced the world would be perfect if everyone merely conformed to their exact worldview, all while considering themselves open-minded and compassionate.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Ideological Tribalism vs Healthy Discourse
accDescr: Diagram showing how tribal hostility leads to silencing while healthy discourse counters bad ideas with open engagement.
subgraph Tribal ["Tribal Reflex"]
A["Divergent Perspectives"] --> B["Demand Conformity"]
B --> C["Cancel & Silence Critics"]
end
subgraph Open ["Healthy Discourse"]
D["Open Spectrum of Ideas"] --> E["Sort Valid from Invalid"]
E --> F["Counter with Better Arguments"]
end
```
Rogan emphasizes that while social media gives every person an opinion, listeners must learn to sift through the noise rather than trying to silence whatever they dislike. Both agree that trying to de-platform or destroy those with opposing views—especially on a subject as complex and open-ended as ancient history—cuts off valuable contributions from independent, passionate researchers. Dan stresses that professional academics should engage with amateurs in good faith rather than dismissing them with hostility.
[01:22:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4931s) The SAA, Financial Jealousy, and the Pushback Against Amateurs
Dan highlights the irony in how mainstream archaeology treats independent researchers, pointing back to the foundational bylaws of the Society for American Archaeology (SAA). Originally, their stated mission included fostering positive relationships with interested amateurs and providing guidance whenever asked. Instead, Dan argues that modern professional archaeologists actively antagonize amateurs and abandon that original mandate entirely. Rogan suggests that underlying this hostility is a layer of professional jealousy: independent creators like Ben van Kerkwyk (from *UnchartedX*) and Graham Hancock command millions of views and build lucrative careers from their passion, while traditionally trained academics struggle for attention and funding despite years in school.
Dan recounts instances where critics lashed out purely because they discovered independent researchers have supporters paying them via Patreon. The conversation turns to the mainstream reaction against Hancock's Netflix docuseries *Ancient Apocalypse*, which critics labeled dangerous. Both Dan and Joe ridicule the notion that discussing lost civilizations could be considered a hazard to society, seeing the outrage as an ego-driven temper tantrum.
- The Society for American Archaeology's original bylaws mandated building bridges with interested amateurs and assisting them upon request.
- Independent creators reach millions on platforms like YouTube, generating revenue that often eclipses academic grants.
- Mainstream organizations reacted to Graham Hancock's Netflix project by treating speculation about human prehistory as an existential threat.
[01:23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5026s) The Netflix Letter and the White Supremacy Accusation
Dan details the formal complaint letter submitted to Netflix concerning Graham Hancock. The letter outlined three primary grievances, but rather than leading with factual errors, the number-one complaint was simply that Hancock criticizes archaeologists and refuses to listen to them. Dan finds it telling that their primary issue was wounded pride, especially since Hancock does converse with archaeologists when treated respectfully rather than summarily dismissed.
The second major criticism in the letter was the claim that alternative history promotes white supremacy, linking the theories to 19th-century writer Ignatius Donnelly's 1882 work on Atlantis. Dan points out the selective framing of this argument: while Donnelly was a 19th-century figure holding racial attitudes typical of his era, he was also a liberal politician, an abolitionist, and an advocate for women's suffrage. Furthermore, earlier 19th-century theorists like Augustus Le Plongeon proposed that the Maya were the original Atlantean world civilization, undermining the assertion that lost civilization hypotheses were constructed solely around white supremacist frameworks.
- Complaint #1 in the letter to Netflix: Graham Hancock speaks ill of mainstream archaeologists and does not heed them.
- Complaint #2: Claims that lost civilization theories are intrinsically linked to white supremacy via figures like Ignatius Donnelly (author of *Atlantis: The Antediluvian World*, 1882).
- Historical counterpoints: Ignatius Donnelly was a Minnesota populist, abolitionist, and suffragist; Augustus Le Plongeon argued that Maya culture was the worldwide mother civilization.
[01:26:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5162s) The Curse of Ham and the Realities of the Archaeological Timeline
Dan expands on how 19th-century writers rationalized racial divisions through theological frameworks, particularly the biblical division of humanity into Noah's three sons (Shem, Ham, and Japheth). The narrative of Noah becoming intoxicated and cursing Ham's lineage—the "Curse of Ham"—was historically abused for centuries to justify racial hierarchies and subjugation. Dan notes that if critics want to point fingers at the historical root of these racial theories, they should point to biblical interpretations rather than modern inquiries into megalithic architecture.
Rogan finds it absurd to reduce global anomalies—from Baalbek and Egypt to ancient Mesoamerican sites—to modern racial debates instead of acknowledging how little we know about deep human history. Dan mentions interacting online with followers of establishment voices like Flint Dibble, who mock the concept of "lost civilizations." When Dan asks them if they honestly believe archaeology has excavated every past civilization, they concede that it has not. Rogan concludes that evidence dating back at least 12,000 years already disrupts the orthodox civilizational timeline, making it entirely plausible that human history stretches back far deeper into the past than current models allow.
[01:28:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5300s) Hunter-Gatherers, Karahan Tepe, and Site Enclosures
The conversation opens with skepticism over mainstream archaeological explanations for Göbekli Tepe and related sites in Turkey. Joe Rogan and Dan Richards question how nomadic hunter-gatherers, who apparently did not build permanent houses, could suddenly produce monumental megalithic stone complexes without advanced tools. Dan notes that at Karahan Tepe, authorities are preparing to build shelters over the site, much like they did at Göbekli Tepe. Independent researcher Hugh Newman of *Megalithomania*, who has spent years conducting archaeoastronomical research on-site, has raised alarms about how these protective covers disrupt astronomical alignments and access.
While officials claim the enclosures are designed to shelter the ancient stone from the elements and manage tourism, Joe is skeptical about why stones that have endured millennia suddenly need covering, wondering whether it actually diminishes the viewing experience. Dan points out that in economically struggling regions, local priorities and tourism calculations operate under very different incentives than in the West, where basic funding can radically shift official decisions.
- Hugh Newman (*Megalithomania*) has been conducting archaeoastronomical fieldwork at Karahan Tepe, documenting alignments before planned site enclosures limit observation.
- Official rationales cite weathering protection and tourist infrastructure, while critics argue stone structures do not urgently require enclosure if it impedes study.
---
[01:29:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5385s) The "Wrestling Heel" Theory: Zahi Hawass and Lee Clare
Dan introduces his provocative theory that former Egyptian Minister of State for Antiquities Affairs Zahi Hawass deliberately acts as a professional wrestling "heel" to boost global interest and tourism revenue. Following the Arab Spring, when Egyptian tourism plummeted by roughly 40%, Hawass noted in an interview that certain demographics—wealthy tourists from the United States, Japan, Germany, and China, as well as New Age seekers fascinated by esoteric archaeology—travel regardless of political instability. Dan argues that Hawass weaponizes this by playing an antagonistic gatekeeper: claiming he found something, then denying it, and publicly mocking alternative researchers to dare people into visiting and investigating for themselves.
Dan sees an identical pattern emerging in Turkey with Lee Clare, the lead coordinator of excavations at Göbekli Tepe for the German Archaeological Institute. Clare frequently engages in heated arguments on Twitter (X), publicly criticizing independent creators like Jimmy Corsetti of *Bright Insight*. Dan mentions he personally had to block Clare due to relentless antagonism. In Dan's view, creating a visible "villain" allegedly hiding history is an intentional promotional strategy. Joe pushes back slightly on the wrestling comparison, suggesting Hawass's motives might be less calculated theater and more straightforward control of the narrative, especially given historical controversies over missing antiquities and flip-flopping statements regarding whether skeletal remains were discovered inside excavated sarcophagi.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Tourism Engagement Strategy Model
accDescr: Flowchart illustrating how archaeological controversies and gatekeeping generate tourist interest and alternative research.
subgraph Controversy["Public Antagonism & Gatekeeping"]
A["Official Denials & Conflicting Statements"] --> B["Persona as 'Heel' / Gatekeeper"]
end
subgraph PublicReaction["Public & Alt-Media Reaction"]
B --> C["Suspicion of Hidden History"]
C --> D["Independent Investigators & 'New Age' Tourists"]
end
subgraph Outcome["Economic Outcome"]
D --> E["Sustained Tourism Revenue & High Media Visibility"]
end
```
---
[01:32:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5551s) Black Markets, Mummy Eating, and Disappearing Skulls
The discussion shifts to how high-value artifacts vanish into elite private collections. Joe notes that wealthy private buyers—such as Saudi billionaires—will pay astronomical sums to have genuine Egyptian antiquities or mummies in their homes. This leads into the bizarre historical reality of Victorian "mummy unwrapping parties" and the historical consumption of powdered mummies (*mummia*) as medicine, an oddity Joe recalls discussing with podcast host Danny Jones.
They transition to anomalous finds like the elongated skulls of Paracas, Peru, which feature increased cranial volume, larger eye sockets, and occasionally an absence of the sagittal suture. Joe questions where such extraordinary relics end up and whether ordinary people would ever surrender them to mainstream museums. He references his friend John Reeves in Fairbanks, Alaska (the Boneyard), who faced situations where institutional researchers from organizations like the American Museum of Natural History took Pleistocene megafauna bones that subsequently vanished into storage or were reportedly dumped in harbors. Because of this institutional distrust, Reeves established his own private scientific research center on his property to force visiting scientists to examine bones strictly on-site.
- Elite collectors historically drove extensive looting; Victorian elites held private parties unwrapping genuine mummies and consumed corpse powder for supposed medical benefits.
- Paracas skulls from Peru feature distinct biological anomalies, including missing sagittal sutures, enlarged orbits, and expanded cranial capacities.
- John Reeves built an independent research building in Alaska to maintain chain of custody after historical incidents where museums failed to return or properly account for rare fossils.
---
[01:34:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5662s) The Baghdad Battery and the 19th-Century Mummy Trade
Dan highlights the mysterious disappearance of the Baghdad Battery, which was looted from the National Museum of Iraq during the early 2000s and never recovered. While conventional alternative history claims the device was an ancient electrical battery, Dan proposes an alternative metallurgy theory: it may have functioned as an electro-separation or hydrometallurgical extraction cell. By filling the vessel with acidic mine runoff containing dissolved gold, silver, copper, and iron, the natural electrolytic reaction around the copper cylinder and iron rod would cause gold and silver to plate onto the copper while impurities settled out. Dan notes this would explain why modern tests found little chemical residue inside the vessel—the valuable precipitates would have been thoroughly harvested.
The segment concludes as the studio pulls up a historical photograph from 1875 showing an open-air street vendor selling mummies propped up against a wall in Egypt. Joe and Dan marvel at an article from *Big Think* describing how mummies were so heavily exploited and traded from the 12th century through the 18th century that Egyptian sellers eventually faced shortages, leading to widespread counterfeiting and grave robbing just to satisfy European curiosity and pharmaceutical markets.
- The Baghdad Battery vanished from the National Museum of Iraq during wartime looting in the early 2000s; Dan posits it was an electro-precipitation tool used to extract precious metals from mine runoff rather than an energy source.
- An 1875 archival photograph documents Egyptian street merchants openly selling intact mummies directly to tourists.
- Massive domestic and international demand between the 12th and 18th centuries nearly exhausted easily accessible mummified remains in Egypt.
[01:36:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5771s) The Macabre History of Mummy Medicine and Victorian Unwrapping Parties
The conversation turns to the gruesome European history surrounding Egyptian mummies, beginning with their widespread use in historic apothecaries. Joe Rogan and Dan Richards marvel at old apothecary jars labeled for "mummia"—mummy powder or extract—which was consumed as medicine and treated as a cure-all. Dan jokes about people sprinkling powdered mummy on steaks, while Rogan notes how thoroughly dark it is that Europeans bought up and consumed ancient human remains. When genuine Egyptian mummies became scarce due to relentless demand, vendors even began forging mummy corpses using recently deceased bodies to keep up the supply. The practice had even more disturbing fringe theories: certain doctors believed dried, ancient mummies lacked vitality compared to fresh meat and blood, prompting Joe to quipped that those doctors "went to the island."
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Evolution of Mummy Exploitation in Europe
accDescr: Diagram illustrating the shift from medical consumption to public spectacle and tomb desecration.
subgraph Med["Medical Exploitation"]
A["Mummia as Apothecary Medicine"] --> B["Supply Shortage & Forged Corpses"]
end
subgraph Ent["Social Entertainment"]
C["Napoleon Returns from Egypt"] --> D["1834: Pettigrew Unwrappings at Royal College"]
D --> E["Victorian High-Society Unwrapping Parties"]
end
subgraph Myth["Folklore & Curses"]
E --> F["Tomb Desecration & Tutankhamun's Curse"]
F --> G["Lord Carnarvon's Sudden Death & Voodoo Effect"]
end
Med --> Ent
```
Dan details how Napoleon’s campaigns in Egypt accelerated the influx of artifacts into Europe, initially under the guise of scientific inquiry. By the 1830s, this shifted into outright entertainment. In 1834, surgeon Thomas Pettigrew performed a public mummy unwrapping at the Royal College of Surgeons, a spectacle that bridged clinical dissection and public theater. Soon, all pretense of medical research evaporated. Hosting a mummy unwrapping became the ultimate Victorian status symbol: wealthy elites threw lavish dinner parties where guests drank heavily and cheered as the bandages were peeled away to expose shriveled flesh and bone. Rogan and Dan connect this blatant desecration to the folklore of the "mummy's curse," referencing the mysterious, sudden death of Lord Carnarvon shortly after opening King Tutankhamun's tomb. Rogan observes that if someone genuinely believes they are hexed—much like the psychological mechanism behind voodoo—the belief alone can trigger real, fatal consequences.
- **Apothecary Antiques**: Genuine jars previously contained mummia, a bitumen-and-remains powder prescribed across Europe for centuries.
- **Thomas Pettigrew (1834)**: Performed high-profile public mummy dissections at the Royal College of Surgeons, transforming unwrappings into popular social spectacles.
- **The Tutankhamun Curse**: Lord Carnarvon died in Cairo shortly after opening King Tut's tomb in 1922, cementing the global superstition surrounding ancient curses.
---
[01:38:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5930s) The $3 Billion Antiquities Black Market and the Copper Scroll Treasure Map
The discussion moves to the modern illicit trade in ancient artifacts, prompted by a report that the global black market for smuggled antiquities, including mummified remains, is valued at roughly $3 billion annually. Rogan emphasizes how immense that fortune is for relics that belong in museums, comparing ultra-wealthy private buyers who collect looted relics to those who pay fortunes for illegal rhino-horn tea simply because it is forbidden.
The conversation expands to institutional collections, specifically the Rockefeller Archaeological Museum in Jerusalem. Established during the British Mandate, the museum originally amassed over 60,000 artifacts, including prehistoric material dating back nearly two million years, an almost complete 100,000-year-old human skeleton, and a 6,500-year-old skeleton that sensational reports once claimed was the biblical Noah. The museum was also the original repository of the Dead Sea Scrolls before they were relocated to the Shrine of the Book after the establishment of the State of Israel.
Dan highlights one particular artifact from the Dead Sea collection: the enigmatic Copper Scroll found in Cave 3 at Qumran. Unlike every other scroll written on perishable parchment or papyrus, this document was chiseled into metal sheets made of copper alloyed with approximately 1% tin, which has oxidized over millennia into a brittle state. Furthermore, it is not a religious, historical, or literary composition—it is a literal treasure map cataloging 64 distinct subterranean locations where massive reserves of gold and silver were hidden. Today, the original metal scroll is preserved at the Jordan Museum in Amman. Rogan is struck by the idea of an ancient inventory of hidden gold engraved onto sheets of copper during an era when copper itself was a precious commodity.
- **$3 Billion Annual Black Market**: Estimated size of the illegal trade in smuggled antiquities and looted human remains.
- **Rockefeller Archaeological Museum**: Located in East Jerusalem; home to ancient hominid fossils and the original holding facility for the Dead Sea Scrolls.
- **The Copper Scroll (3Q15)**: Discovered in Cave 3 at Qumran; an inventory listing 64 secret locations holding caches of gold and silver, now displayed in Amman, Jordan.
---
[01:41:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6074s) Submerged Civilizations, Navels of the World, and Cartel Looting
Reflecting on the Copper Scroll, Rogan observes how much of human history remains undiscovered beneath the earth, pointing out that large tracts of the Sahara Desert and sub-Saharan Africa were lush, green landscapes teeming with life just thousands of years ago. Dan agrees, arguing that ancient geography looked fundamentally different during the Ice Age when sea levels were significantly lower. He brings up the mythological concept of the "world navel" (the *omphalos* or axis mundi)—the sacred center connecting the underworld, earth, and the heavens, exemplified by Yggdrasil in Norse myth, the Temple Mount and Western Wall in Jerusalem, the Delphic Oracle in Greece, and Cusco in the Inca Empire.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Ancient Navels of the World
accDescr: Examples of sacred central sites across ancient cultures.
subgraph Centers["Recognized Cultural Hubs"]
A["Jerusalem<br/>(Western Wall)"]
B["Delphi<br/>(Omphalos)"]
C["Cusco<br/>(Inca Capital)"]
end
subgraph Outlier["The Pacific Mystery"]
D["Easter Island<br/>(Te Pito o Te Henua)"]
end
Centers ~~~ Outlier
```
Dan points out an intriguing anomaly: while world navels typically sit at the vibrant administrative and spiritual heart of an empire, Easter Island (Rapa Nui)—known traditionally as *Te Pito o Te Henua* ("The Navel of the World")—is located in an isolated corner of Polynesia. However, Dan argues that if sea levels were lower, Easter Island would have formed part of an exposed chain of islands, transforming it from a remote outpost into a central Pacific crossway. He considers Easter Island to be one of the least systematically excavated and most promising archaeological sites on the planet, having avoided the industrial-scale looting suffered by Rome and Egypt.
The topic shifts back to the current realities of looting. Dan laments how rapid media cycles and political polarization distort archaeology; within forty-eight hours of a new discovery, like the tridactyl Nazca mummies, narratives polarize and partisans find credentialed figures to validate whatever conclusion they favor. Rogan shares that organized crime has recognized the immense financial upside of this market; his sources report that Mexican and South American cartels now control archaeological sites and sell artifacts directly to foreign buyers, with researcher Luke Caverns encountering armed men guarding unexcavated ruins. The segment wraps with Rogan and Dan discussing the prices of illicit artifacts, comparing the Nazca specimens to ancient codices acquired by the Mexican government for $250,000—a sum considered modest in the elite antiquities trade, where items can easily command millions on the black market.
- **Te Pito o Te Henua**: Easter Island's traditional name ("Navel of the World"), hinting at a potential central role when lower sea levels exposed larger landmasses.
- **Cartel Antiquity Smuggling**: Armed groups in South America and Mexico increasingly control historical ruins, selling valuable artifacts on the black market for millions of dollars.
- **Codex Acquisitions**: The Mexican government reportedly acquired rare indigenous codices from private hands for $250,000, underscoring the deep tension between public preservation and private wealth.
[01:44:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6278s) Ancient Relics on the Market and Provenance Loopholes
Dan Richards and Joe Rogan reflect on how ancient artifacts end up dispersed or destroyed over centuries. Dan observes that when family dynasties hold items for 500 years, institutional or private pressure often forces a sale: "I wouldn't be surprised if there was some strong arming that went on there. Like you can either get paid for, you know... or we take it, just like when the mob: do you want paid off for this or do you want beat on the head?" Rogan laments how vast quantities of human knowledge and artifacts were permanently lost through catastrophic events like the burning of the Library of Alexandria and the Spanish burning of Mesoamerican codices.
The conversation turns to an online commercial marketplace offering authentic antiquities from ancient Peru and Egypt. Rogan immediately raises the issue of authenticity, noting that the antiquities market is flooded with high-end counterfeits. Jamie pulls up several live listings, including an ancient mask priced around $4,850 with provenance tracing back to an archaeologist in 1938. Rogan jokes, "I'm not buying one. Would you get cursed? Well, says $4,850 on something and I better be able to drive it around or smoke it once."
They inspect another listing: an Egyptian bronze cobra dated between 664 and 30 BCE that sold for roughly $2,000, originating from an ex-private New York City Egyptologist collection. Dan explains that antiquities trade operates under strict legal grandfathering rules similar to pre-ban ivory or vintage assault weapon bans: if an artifact possesses verified provenance establishing it was collected or exported before specific statutory cutoff dates, it can still be sold legally on the private market. As Dan puts it, authorities won't go "raiding the Rockefeller shelves, but you know, the rest of you fucks can't have any new ones."
[01:47:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6423s) The 89% Gold Shaman and Psychedelic Visions
Browsing further, they come across a gold pendant depicting a standing shaman, priced upon request but estimated around $67,000. Rogan is amazed to find that the artifact is composed of 89% solid gold, crafted hollow—presumably because solid casting would have weighed a hundred pounds. Examining the sculpture in high resolution, they note strange anatomical details: the shaman carries what appears to be a monkey or secondary figure atop his head, holds trophy heads or facial cups in his hands, has distinct nipples, and features an abnormal number of digits, displaying seven or eight fingers per hand.
Rogan observes that the imagery matches the visual landscapes of DMT trips: "Again, you can meet that guy. Three hits of DMT. He's out there." When Jamie notes the object weighs 148 grams, they briefly stumble over unit conversions, prompting Rogan to laugh that they are "doing weed math" to calculate that it weighs roughly a third of a pound.
Dan notes a counterpoint about over-interpreting ancient symbolism: modern observers might search for profound esoteric meaning in an ancient belt or carving when the original artist might have just thought it looked cool, or it functioned like modern secular totems—"Why is everybody worshiping Spuds MacKenzie?" or making the "Hook 'em Horns" hand sign at a University of Texas football game. Nevertheless, both agree that skull deformation and specialized ritual iconography were sustained deliberately across thousands of years in the Americas, stretching continuously from the Olmec civilization until the arrival of the Spanish.
[01:50:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6640s) Paracas Textiles, Ancient Surgery, and Trans-Pacific Contact
The discussion shifts to the overwhelming concentration of anomalies centered around South America, particularly coastal and highland Peru. Rogan highlights the overlapping convergence of megalithic masonry with interlocking shapes, cranial elongation, and geoglyphs meant to be viewed from the sky: "How many of these fucking things do you have to see before you went, what was going on here?"
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Convergence of Paracas Cultural Achievements
accDescr: Interconnected accomplishments of the ancient Paracas civilization in coastal Peru.
subgraph ParacasCulture["Paracas Civilization Achievements"]
A["Intricate 2,000-Year-Old Textiles"]
B["Advanced Trepanation (Brain Surgeries)"]
C["Intentional Cranial Deformation"]
D["Nazca/Paracas Geoglyphs (Visible from High Altitudes)"]
end
subgraph MaritimeReach["Maritime & Trans-Pacific Connections"]
E["Paracas Candelabra (Coastal Landmark)"]
F["Navigation to/from Easter Island & Polynesia"]
G["Bidirectional DNA Drift Across the Pacific"]
end
ParacasCulture --> E
E --> F
F --> G
```
Dan urges Jamie to pull up photographs of textiles woven by the Paracas culture over 1,000 to 2,000 years ago. Looking at an elaborate yellow textile depicting flying or dancing anthropomorphic figures with streaming feathers and faces wrapped around nasal orifices, Dan and Rogan marvel at the artistry. Dan emphasizes that this was not a primitive tribal group, but a sophisticated civilization capable of performing complex trepanation (cranial surgery), carving vast desert geoglyphs, executing deliberate cranial deformation, and weaving world-class textiles.
Dan points out navigation landmarks like the Paracas Candelabra—a massive geoglyph etched into the coastal hillside that can be spotted up to 12 miles out at sea. He notes that ancient coastal navigators or voyagers arriving from Easter Island and Polynesia likely used such landmarks for wayfinding, a connection supported by recent genetic studies showing bidirectional prehistoric DNA flow between South American and Polynesian populations.
[01:53:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6794s) Genetic Convergence and the Evolutionary Arms Race of Skulls
Dan Richards points to genetic evidence showing ancient migrations into Peru and back out as a clear sign of population mixing. To him, the cranial modifications and shared motifs acted like an ancient welcoming sign or cultural convergence point—bringing together islanders, northern populations, and locals. The recurring physical deformations seen in the back of the cranium represent a "smoking gun" for why early cultures engaged in artificial cranial modification.
Richards frames this practice as an ancient evolutionary arms race. Groups attempted to accommodate larger brains that combined the sensory strengths, intelligence, and auditory-visual capabilities of intermingling hominin lineages. In his view, a population actively expanding cranial capacity would hold an insurmountable advantage over unaugmented rivals over thousands of years. He argues that as modern *Homo sapiens* began interbreeding with archaic human lineages possessing larger cranial bases, cranial shaping became an adaptive requirement. While found globally across early human history, Paracas in Peru was simply one of the final places where the tradition survived long enough to be recorded extensively.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Archaic Admixture and Cranial Modification Hypothesis
accDescr: Flowchart showing the proposed cycle where archaic interbreeding leads to Chiari malformations, relieved by cranial binding and trepanation.
subgraph Heritage["Genetic & Cultural Convergence"]
A["Archaic Lineages (Larger Brains)"]
B["Homo Sapiens"]
A & B --> C["Population Interbreeding"]
end
subgraph Pressure["Physical Consequences"]
C --> D["Cranial Deformations / Chiari Malformations"]
D --> E["Severe Intracranial Pressure & Headaches"]
end
subgraph Interventions["Cultural Solutions"]
E --> F["Intentional Cranial Elongation (Binding)"]
E --> G["Trepanation (Pressure Relief)"]
F & G --> H["Paracas & Global Post-Younger Dryas Traditions"]
end
```
[01:54:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6871s) Cataclysmic Survival and Advanced Civilizations
Joe Rogan connects the appearance of these skulls to the Younger Dryas impact boundary, noting that the oldest confirmed elongated skulls—discovered in China—date to roughly 10,000 BC, appearing directly in the cataclysm's wake. This timeline raises the question of how much human civilization survived the disaster. The fossil and megafauna records suggest the devastation was uneven: North America, Europe, and parts of Asia suffered massive destruction, while Africa was comparatively unscathed and South America was far less damaged.
Rogan and Richards consider whether South America served as an isolated redoubt where advanced pre-cataclysm civilizations managed to hold on while the rest of the world was thrown into ruin. What remains puzzling is the eventual fate of the megalithic builders and the sophisticated culture that occupied places like Paracas before standard recorded history.
[01:55:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6946s) Trepanation Success Rates and Vanishing Traits
Richards points out that the medical understanding of cranial pressure persisted in the region for millennia. By the arrival of the Spanish conquistadors, Inca surgeons were performing trepanations—drilling or cutting holes directly into the cranium—with an astonishing survival rate of around 80%, evidenced by bone remodeling around the surgical margins. In stark contrast, American Civil War battlefield surgeons practicing the same procedure had roughly a 40% survival rate, making them half as effective as their ancient predecessors.
The primary clinical motive was pressure relief. During the American Civil War, musket balls that failed to kill outright caused cerebral swelling and fluid buildup, compelling surgeons to perform emergency trepanation. In the Andes, the procedure relieved swelling from combat trauma as well as chronic headaches linked to cranial deformities.
When Rogan asks why modern Peruvians no longer exhibit naturally oversized or elongated skulls, Richards explains that severe natural head elongations were systematically selected against over generations:
- Brains that outgrew cranial capacity caused fatal birth complications and biological viability issues.
- The most extreme structural traits were steadily bred out into less severe variations.
- The condition persists in modern medicine as Chiari malformations, proving the underlying structural issue never entirely disappeared.
- Severe inter-clan warfare, widespread throughout Andean history, likely wiped out the remaining lineages displaying these extreme phenotypes.
[01:57:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7074s) Cliff Dwellers, Ancient Warfare, and Redacted Archaeological Reports
Rogan notes that a sharp civilizational break occurred roughly a thousand years ago across the American Southwest, forcing peaceful valley communities into heavily fortified cliff dwellings. Groups of several thousand people fractured into defensive bands of fifty to five hundred; the Gila Cliff Dwellings, for instance, accommodated merely sixty people who had fled larger settlements. Both agree this dramatic lifestyle shift was a direct response to brutal raiders and endemic conflict.
Richards shares an unsettling discovery from a recent road trip through New Mexico and Texas, during which he visited the Gila Cliff Dwellings. When reviewing peer-reviewed archaeological excavation reports to produce an episode for his channel, he found massive sections blacked out like the "Epstein list emails":
- Official explanations claim artifact locations are redacted to deter looters and grave robbers.
- The papers contradict this rationale by openly identifying unexcavated sites with suspected artifacts, leaving them completely unredacted.
- Actual black bars are placed over the names of uncovered items, specific excavation zones, and the individuals or entities that removed the relics.
- Richards suspects institutions may be suppressing out-of-place artifacts (OOPArts)—such as pre-Columbian worked iron arrowheads or unexpected metallurgy akin to the Antikythera mechanism—or obscuring black-market antiquities trading.
[02:01:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7289s) Redacted Records and Disappearing History
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards examine the practical motivations behind the redaction of archaeological records. While alternative historians often hypothesize that government or institutional black bars cover up out-of-place artifacts (OOPArts), Richards points out that the reality is likely far more mundane: outright theft and illicit antiquities sales. If an archaeologist uncovers an extraordinary relic, quietly redacting its description from the field log allows them to sell it directly to private collectors like the Rockefellers without ever having to account for where the piece ended up. Rogan agrees that greed and money provide a far more straightforward explanation than elaborate institutional secrets.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Archaeological Discrepancies and Explanations
accDescr: Flowchart illustrating mundane vs alternative theories for disappearing archaeological evidence.
subgraph S1["Archaeological Anomalies"]
A["Redacted Excavation Records<br/>(e.g., Gila Cliff Dwellings)"]
B["Elongated Skulls<br/>(Expeditions vs Search Engines)"]
end
subgraph S2["Proposed Explanations"]
C["Mundane Explanation:<br/>Private Antiquities Sales to Wealthy Collectors"]
D["Dogmatic Control:<br/>Institutional Narrative Protection"]
E["Radical Paradigm:<br/>Genetic Tampering / Interventions"]
end
A --> C
A --> D
B --> D
D --> E
```
Despite favoring mundane explanations, Richards notes how his attitude toward institutional cover-ups has evolved. When he first appeared on the podcast, he remained deeply skeptical of any coordinated, top-down suppression of archaeology. However, his investigations into elongated skull finds altered his view. He describes encountering a systemic disappearance of documentation: links he references in his YouTube videos vanish from the internet within two weeks, and general search engine queries claim discoveries—such as the elongated skulls of the island of New Ireland—never existed, despite numerous documented nineteenth- and twentieth-century expeditions detailing them.
- Disappearing evidence repeatedly cropped up across sites in the American Southwest, including the Gila Cliff Dwellings in New Mexico.
- Search queries on mainstream engines will state anomalous skulls never occurred, directly contradicting historical expedition journals and photographs.
- Richards reflects: "At a certain point it becomes quite obvious that something's being hidden... The information is just not easily accessible. It's hidden. It's covered up. And I don't know why."
---
[02:03:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7387s) Gradualism, Catastrophism, and Scientific Dogmatism
Richards attributes much of this institutional resistance not necessarily to malice, but to ingrained psychological dogma. In its formative years, modern science operated under the assumption that it would substantiate biblical narratives, focusing on sudden events like Noah's flood or the collapse of the walls of Jericho. As geology and evolutionary biology developed, the paradigm swung completely to the opposite extreme: strict gradualism. For over a century, the mainstream academic establishment adamantly rejected catastrophic explanations for earth history.
It was not until around 1980, following the discovery of the Cretaceous–Paleogene (K–T) boundary iridium layer and the Chicxulub crater, that science formally reconciled the two concepts into punctuated equilibrium. Richards points out the absurdity that it took academia a century to admit what a child looking out a window could deduce: natural systems usually change slowly over vast periods, but they are occasionally upended by abrupt, violent disasters. That same dogmatic psychological impulse, he argues, persists today whenever researchers encounter anomalous evidence that challenges established evolutionary narratives.
---
[02:04:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7474s) Human Engineering, Ancient Aliens, and Occam's Razor
Rogan brings up recent rumors swirling around UAP (Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena) disclosure, citing reports of classified briefings given to religious pastors. According to these rumors, officials warned faith leaders that imminent disclosures could shake spiritual foundations by revealing that humanity was genetically modified by an extraterrestrial intelligence, and that organized religions were instituted as social control mechanisms to pacify early civilizations. While Rogan considers the idea of religion being wholly invented by aliens far-fetched, he finds directed genetic intervention entirely plausible, drawing parallels to modern gene-editing experiments, the theoretical de-extinction of species like the dire wolf, and humanity's historical obsession with eugenics.
Richards responds with his standard skeptical heuristic. When visiting ancient astronaut theorist David Hatcher Childress at his home, Richards offered an analogy to explain his reluctance to jump to extraterrestrial conclusions: if a man walks into the bathroom and returns to find his wallet missing, he could theoretically claim an alien or a stray dog took it, but everyone in the room will reasonably suspect the person standing right next to the table. For Richards, citing ancient aliens must always be the hypothesis of absolute last resort. At the same time, he acknowledges intriguing alternative models—such as the hypothesis explored by the *Land of Chem* project, which posits that the Giza pyramids functioned as chemical production facilities using local materials, something an advanced visiting civilization or lost human culture would logically construct first.
- The idea of accelerated human evolution mirrors ancient narratives, from the apocryphal Book of Enoch to the alternative Sumerian interpretations of Zechariah Sitchin.
- Sitchin's thesis that extraterrestrials accelerated hominid development to mine gold and precious metals remains one of the foundational ancient astronaut tropes.
- Rogan notes: "Occam's razor is a lot sharper on some things than others."
---
[02:08:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7700s) The Enigma of Giza and China's Yangshan Quarry
The discussion returns to the Great Pyramid of Giza, which Rogan and Richards agree defies conventional logic regardless of whether one subscribes to alternative or mainstream theories. Mainstream Egyptology conventionally asserts that the Great Pyramid was constructed in approximately 20 to 28 years during the Fourth Dynasty reign of Khufu—a timeline primarily extrapolated from the writings of Herodotus. Richards points out the selective scholarship at play: Egyptologists eagerly adopt Herodotus's timeline for Khufu while completely ignoring his vivid descriptions of vast subterranean labyrinths near Hawara and Saqqara.
Drawing on his background working in the construction industry, Richards expresses frustration with academic estimates that ignore the sheer physical logistics of moving and placing millions of multi-ton stone blocks. He routinely challenges armchair archaeologists who lack hands-on building experience:
> "Why don't you go build a fucking fire pit in your backyard with cinder blocks and get back to me on that 28 years. It's like you guys don't own a fucking tool belt... There is no way."
As Rogan pulls up images of colossal stonework from around the world, the conversation pivots to China's Yangshan Quarry. Located near Nanjing, the site features unfinished, incomprehensibly massive megaliths—reputedly abandoned during the Ming dynasty in the early 15th century—cut directly out of the mountain bedrock, complete with strange raised stone nubs reminiscent of megalithic work found across Peru and Egypt.
[02:10:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7805s) Megalithic Nubs, Ancient Quarries, and Denying the Mystery
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards examine imagery of massive megalithic stones featuring protruding stone "nubs" or bosses. Discussing the conventional academic claim that these nubs were purposefully carved to serve a mechanical function—only for the projects to be abandoned because the blocks were ultimately too large to move—the pair marvel at the paradox of a civilization having incredible foresight yet failing at basic execution. Rogan questions whether these nubs were genuinely used for lifting and maneuvering blocks, noting that in the images they are reviewing, the stone in question appears to still be carved directly out of the bedrock in an active quarry rather than being a finished block placed on site.
Looking at a deep cut between two megalithic blocks, Rogan emphasizes the utter strangeness of how a massive, solid piece of stone could be removed from such a narrow gap, asking, "Who did it? And how did you do it? What are you using?" He finds it baffling that mainstream commentators attempt to explain away the enigma or strip the mystery from these ancient achievements. The two note other colossal quarried slabs, including structures in China that appear almost to float above small channels of water, highlighting how frequently these anomalous, titanic cuts appear around the globe.
[02:12:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7932s) Elongated Skulls, French Head-Binding, and Conflicting Experts
The conversation pivots to artificial cranial deformation when Dan brings up the practice of creating elongated heads, noting that it persisted in parts of France up until World War I. While often dismissed simply as fashion, Dan mentions that baby bonnets were frequently tied tightly around infants' heads not just for aesthetic reasons, but out of superstitious protection. Historically, parents feared unseen spirits entering an infant's soft skull and killing them; binding the head tightly was seen as a way to seal out dangerous forces, with extreme elongation being the incidental anatomical byproduct.
Looking at historical photographs of tightly bound infants whose eyes were bulging outward from the compression, Rogan reacts with horror at the suffering endured by the children. They discuss the dispute over whether artificial cranial deformation actually increases interior cranial capacity. While standard anatomical science argues the skull's volume remains the same even if reshaped, Dan points out how frustrating the field has become: depending on which camp of researchers or alternative historians you ask, you get diametrically opposed claims, leaving the public stuck in a world where you simply "pick your expert." Rogan reflects on ancient Peru, noting how its elongated skulls, monumental stone architecture, and the Nazca lines—which can only be properly appreciated from the sky—paint a picture of a radically alien and deeply fascinating culture.
[02:14:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8062s) Mount Coffin, R. A. Long, and the Occult Geometry of Longview
Dan turns the discussion to strange occurrences in the Pacific Northwest, specifically Mount Coffin along the Columbia River in Washington State. Mount Coffin was an ancient Native American burial site holding an estimated 3,000 burials among what appeared to be partially modified basalt formations. In the early 20th century, the Portland Star and Gravel Company acquired the mountain to quarry it, despite protests and attempts by groups like the Daughters of the American Revolution to preserve it, completely obliterating the sacred site.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Mount Coffin Quarrying and Longview Urban Design
accDescr: Flow diagram showing how Mount Coffin basalt was quarried and reused by R.A. Long to pave an occult-themed street plan in Longview, Washington.
subgraph Destruction["Sacred Site"]
A["Mount Coffin\n(3,000 Native burials)"] -->|"Quarried away"| B["Portland Star & Gravel Co."]
end
subgraph Construction["City Planning"]
B -->|"Basalt gravel"| C["Longview, Washington\n(Planned lumber city)"]
D["Lumber Baron R. A. Long\n(Freemasonic ties)"] -->|"Designs layout"| C
end
subgraph Layout["Geometric Grid"]
C --> E["Pyramidal floor plan\n& hexagonal streets"]
C --> F["Statue facing rising sun\n(13 roses motif)"]
end
```
Dan details how Robert A. Long (R. A. Long), a prominent lumber baron with deep ties to Freemasonry, took the crushed basalt gravel from Mount Coffin and used it to pave the primary arterial avenues of Longview, Washington—a completely planned city he founded in the 1920s:
- **Pyramidal City Layout**: Longview’s street grid was intentionally mapped in the shape of a pyramid, complete with a focal point and cul-de-sac avenues radiating out from a central civic square.
- **Masonic Statuary**: Long erected a statue of himself in the center of the town, oriented to face the rising sun, showing a girl holding a dozen roses while handing him a thirteenth rose.
- **Subsequent Alterations**: In modern times, the city has dismantled parts of this esoteric alignment, cutting off specific street axes and moving Long's statue away from the rising sun.
Rogan jokes about Long essentially stealing the "mojo" of the Native American burial mound to build his personal empire, only for subsequent generations to sabotage Long's own mojo. Dan concludes with an H.P. Lovecraft quote to sum up how ritual and belief shape physical reality regardless of supernatural truth: *"I don't need to believe in Santa Claus to know that people exchange gifts on December 25th."*
[02:18:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8318s) Elongated Skulls and the Grand Canyon Enigma
Dan Richards wraps up his points on cranial deformation, noting that even if someone is labeled crazy, the underlying facts can still be followed. He emphasizes that the region being discussed contained the largest concentration of elongated skulls in recorded history. While conventional archaeologists claim there is no proof of an anomalous population, Richards argues it is simple math: to be buried in that specific cemetery, an individual had to be a noble, and being a noble required skull modification. With approximately 3,000 recorded burials, that equates to 3,000 elongated skulls, despite mainstream critics claiming he does not know what he is talking about.
Joe Rogan pivots the discussion to ask Richards for his take on the mystery of the Grand Canyon, specifically Kincaid's Cave. Richards admits the subject is deeply bizarre. A couple of years ago, he would have written it off as Native American sites, but during a recent "Quest for Ancient Civilizations" appearance, he joked on stage that if another major crisis occurs and the "alphabet boys" retreat east, he will be heading straight into the Grand Canyon. Rogan points out that the area in question remains strictly off-limits. While officials claim the closures are due to the terrain being dangerously hazardous or because the land constitutes a sacred Native American site, Rogan questions why the government would suddenly show such immense deference to sacred land when historically it never stopped federal development—pointing to Mount Rushmore as an obvious counterexample. What strikes both of them as profoundly suspicious is that the restricted zone happens to coincide directly with the exact location where an explorer claimed to have found an underground cave filled with Egyptian artifacts.
[02:20:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8457s) The 1909 Kincaid Expedition and the Debate Over Cover-Ups
Rogan pulls up details on the origin of the legend, tracking it back to a newspaper story published in April 1909. According to the account, a lone explorer named G. E. Kincaid was traveling down the Colorado River from Green River, Wyoming, down to Yuma when he supposedly discovered an inaccessible cave citadel carved into the canyon wall. The newspaper claimed Professor S. A. Jordan and the Smithsonian Institution were actively investigating the discovery, detailing hundreds of rooms, crypts containing mummies, copper and gold tools, mysterious hieroglyphs, granaries, and a Buddha-like idol, with room to shelter up to 50,000 inhabitants who allegedly originated from Egypt or the Orient. Rogan notes that mainstream sources overwhelmingly categorize the report as a classic period tall tale or newspaper hoax, noting there are no accession records, photographs, field notes, or verifiable documentation that Jordan or Kincaid worked with the Smithsonian.
Richards identifies the skeptic cited in the debunking literature as Jason Colavito, whom he describes as a professional debunker. Richards argues that Colavito is notoriously biased, claiming that Graham Hancock would list him among his top antagonists and that if Colavito encountered evidence contradicting his narrative, he would refuse to report it. Rogan counters from a practical standpoint: if an immense cavern holding 50,000 people and genuine Egyptian sarcophagi had truly been found, wouldn't the archaeologists who uncovered it want the fame, prestige, and academic credit rather than covering it up? Furthermore, Rogan points out how simple it should be to definitively resolve the controversy today: send in a Native American archaeological team or fly modern drones directly into the restricted caves to close the debate once and for all.
[02:23:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8623s) Academic Suppression, Institutional Fear, and Military Presence
Richards challenges Rogan's assumption that academics would willingly embrace career-shattering discoveries. Using the controversial tridactyl mummies as a parallel, Richards argues that mainstream archaeologists operate inside an institutional system where career survival depends on staying within established paradigms. He references his own clash with archaeologist Flint Dibble, noting that after calling Dibble out, critics lumped him into the same category as 19th-century occult figure Madame Blavatsky and dismissed him as a pseudoscientist. Richards explains that an ice core specialist he consulted regarding Ice Age metallurgy was pressured by Dibble until the specialist retracted his statements. He reiterates that throughout archaeological history, anyone attempting to push back the timeline of human presence in the Americas faced total professional ruin.
Rogan concedes the institutional pressure but remains skeptical that archaeological secrecy alone explains the heavy federal security. He finds it hard to believe that the Pentagon would deploy Black Hawk helicopters to circle the cliffs and keep hikers away solely to protect an archaeological secret or honor a Native American site. Richards agrees that something significant is situated out there, suggesting the security could simply be masking a covert military base embedded inside the canyon.
[02:25:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8727s) Sedona: Night-Vision UFOs and the Energy Vortex Racket
The talk shifts south to Sedona, Arizona, which both men describe as exceptionally strange. Richards recalls being on Secret Mountain, where people handed him night-vision goggles. Looking up into the sky, he watched five distinct lights emerge from a cloud, maneuver together in formation, and vanish simultaneously. Locals told him that such aerial phenomena occur over Secret Mountain on a regular basis.
Beyond the anomalous lights, Richards and Rogan discuss the peculiar social and economic climate of Sedona. Richards remarks that he has never seen so many sober hustlers in his life, explaining that nearly everyone in town has an angle to extract twenty dollars from tourists. The local economy is severely distorted: renting a home has become more expensive than leasing commercial property on the main drag, and because the nearest neighboring towns are 15 to 20 miles away, local businesses struggle to retain service workers, leaving the town struggling under its own economic weight.
Rogan points out that the town’s entire identity is driven by New Age culture, which Richards attributes to the famous reputation of its mystical energy vortexes. Richards shares an anecdote from his friend Robert, who lived in Sedona for years. Originally, only three traditional energy vortexes were known in the area. However, during the 1980s or 1990s, a heavily overweight New Age promoter arrived in town and announced the discovery of several brand-new vortexes. As Richards notes with a laugh, every single new vortex she identified happened to be conveniently located about five feet off the side of the highway.
[02:27:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8836s) Grand Canyon Caves and Off-Limits Discoveries
Joe Rogan and Dan Richards discuss mysterious, restricted areas in the American wilderness, beginning with claims surrounding the Grand Canyon. Joe brings up an independent YouTuber who scouted bizarre locations in the canyon, got chased out, and subsequently passed away after being hit by a drunk driver. The creator's videos, which had racked up over four million views over two years, bypassed pure Google Earth arm-chairing by actually visiting these remote coords in person. While Joe half-jokes about whether the researcher was deliberately silenced ("whacked") for uncovering sensitive artifacts, both quickly acknowledge that cliff dwellings and cavities in the Grand Canyon are well-documented facts. The deeper intrigue centers on the long-circulating legend of G.E. Kincaid, who claimed in 1909 to have found a massive subterranean citadel capable of housing 50,000 people, filled with Oriental or Egyptian-style relics.
They look into official access rules for canyon caverns. While around 335 caves are recorded, estimates suggest well over a thousand exist, with the vast majority completely off-limits to tourists. Joe points out that legal caverns—such as the Grand Canyon Caverns off Route 66 near Peach Springs, Arizona, known as the largest dry caverns in the United States—offer regular public tours. Other areas are restricted for mundane, practical reasons: tribal sovereignty on Native American reservations, extreme fall risks, or the logistical nightmare of running search-and-rescue operations when hikers get stranded on sheer cliffs. However, the mystery persists around the mouth of the Colorado River and sheer cliff faces where Kincaid supposedly made his discovery, where park services enforce total closures.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Grand Canyon Exploration and Access
accDescr: Comparison between documented public caverns and off-limits restricted sites in the Grand Canyon.
subgraph Legend["Kincaid Legend & Claims"]
K1["1909 G.E. Kincaid Report"] --> K2["Claim of 50,000-Person Citadel"]
K2 --> K3["Supposed Location: Mouth of Colorado River"]
end
subgraph Restrictions["Reasons for Closures"]
C4 --> R1["Tribal Jurisdiction / Sacred Land"]
C4 --> R2["Lethal Terrain / Rescue Hazards"]
C4 --> R3["Conspiracy Theories & Park Ranger Security"]
end
```
- **Recorded Caves:** Roughly 335 caves are officially documented by the park service, out of an estimated 1,000+ hidden caves in the canyon.
- **Grand Canyon Caverns:** Located off Historic Route 66 near Peach Springs, Arizona, these dry caverns remain open to public guided tours.
- **Kincaid Claim:** Historical newspaper lore alleged a massive archaeological site near the mouth of the Colorado River, an area currently inaccessible to civilian explorers.
---
[02:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9000s) Hanford, Government Testing Grounds, and Secret Mountain
Dan shares his cynical view of government site selection, drawing parallels between restricted desert regions and the Pacific Northwest. Living on the West Coast relatively close to the Hanford nuclear site in Washington State, Dan observes that ever since World War II, the federal government placed its most perilous, environment-poisoning projects as far as possible from the East Coast establishment. Whether manufacturing the plutonium that could "blow the world up" or testing atomic bombs in Nevada and the Southwest desert, the toxic fallout was deliberately pushed out west toward "cowboys and hicks" to protect old-money estates in places like Rhode Island.
The conversation turns to other restricted Western landmarks, including Secret Mountain near Sedona, Arizona. Rumors have long held that hikers who wander off-trail on Secret Mountain are intercepted by park rangers who are uncharacteristically armed and heavily built, sparking fringe theories about subterranean military installations or extraterrestrial bases hidden within the United States.
- **Hanford Site:** Established in Washington State during the Manhattan Project to produce plutonium, leaving a legacy of massive nuclear storage facilities.
- **Secret Mountain:** A wilderness landmark outside Sedona, Arizona, subject to local folklore claiming military-grade rangers intercept unauthorized hikers.
---
[02:31:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9109s) AI Fruit Flies, Existential Risk, and the Brutality of Conscious Systems
Asked whether he believes an alien base could exist on American soil, Dan expresses deep skepticism about alien contact, arguing that if extraterrestrials were operating on Earth, they would only bother negotiating with the primary superpowers—the US, Russia, and China—while treating humanity's fossil-fuel economy like an amusing primitive novelty ("look at those cute guys in their coal"). For Dan, the Great Filter is the real barrier: civilization is roughly a century away from interstellar transit, yet perhaps only twenty years away from total self-destruction through runaway biotechnology and synthetic intelligence. With CRISPR kits accessible to private citizens with modest funding, the tools to wipe out biology are within reach.
Dan references a recent scientific milestone where researchers mapped the complete connectome of a fruit fly brain and uploaded it into a physics simulation, effectively giving it a digital body. He compares this digital resurrection to Harlan Ellison’s horror story *"I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream"*, pointing out the terrifying, sadistic possibilities of digital consciousness: an uploaded mind trapped in simulated tasks like *Beat Saber* or *Doom*, unable to satisfy basic sensory needs, suffering a virtual hell that could be stretched across subjective millennia. If alien civilizations successfully cross the technological threshold without destroying themselves, Dan argues they would inevitably find humanity interesting simply because biological life in a dead universe is remarkably rare.
- **CRISPR Proliferation:** Dan notes that accessible gene-editing equipment poses an extreme near-term existential threat.
- **Connectome Simulation:** Researchers mapped and simulated the neural wiring of a fruit fly brain inside a physics engine, animating movement digitally.
- **Literary Reference:** Harlan Ellison’s 1967 post-apocalyptic short story *"I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream"* describes an artificial intelligence torturing the last surviving humans.
---
[02:34:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9255s) Accelerated Evolution and the Violent Primate
Joe offers an alternative perspective on why humanity is so destructive. Rather than viewing human violence as an evolutionary flaw that doomed species must outgrow, Joe posits that extreme aggression might be an inherent byproduct of accelerated evolution. When rapid intelligence and an insatiable drive for technological dominance are grafted onto a territorial, tribal primate, the result is a volatile hybrid organism.
Dan agrees with the concept, summarizing that humanity represents a fundamentally chaotic biological design—a species that grew far too quickly in one specific mental direction without matching moral or emotional equilibrium, maintaining primitive tribal instincts while wielding godlike tools of destruction.
[02:35:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9309s) Intelligence, Animal Cognition, and the Purpose of Civilization
Dan Richards and Joe Rogan consider the evolutionary traits required for any species to eventually leave its home planet. Dan argues that a spacefaring species must inherently possess curiosity—otherwise "they don't give a fuck"—and need social cohesion to collaborate on godlike technological feats. When Dan remarks that humanity only has one example of intelligence evolving, Joe points out that cetaceans like dolphins, orcas, and whales represent distinct intelligences. Dan counters that human benchmarks may not apply: while dolphins navigate a fluid three-dimensional environment, a raccoon is vastly superior at manipulating physical objects.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Planetary Escape Requirements vs Cognitive Traits
accDescr: Diagram contrasting requirements to leave Earth with alternative evolutionary paths of animal intelligence.
subgraph Requirements["Spacefaring Requirements"]
A["Curiosity"]
B["Social Cooperation"]
C["Tool Manipulation"]
end
subgraph Divergent["Divergent Evolutionary Paths"]
D["Human Intelligence:<br/>Tool use & technological drive"]
E["Cetacean Intelligence:<br/>3D spatial motion & sonic communication"]
F["Raccoon Dexterity:<br/>Physical environmental manipulation"]
end
Requirements --> D
D -.->|"Alternative cognitive focus"| E
D -.->|"Alternative manual skill"| F
```
The discussion moves to whether human evolution prioritizes collective advancement or individual happiness. Dan brings up comedian Ari Matti’s observations about the cast of *Love on the Spectrum*, noting that they appear genuinely happier than most people grinding through modern life. Joe observes that humanity rarely acts with unified intent; individuals plan for personal retirement rather than the long-term survival of the species. Dan acknowledges this selfish drive, but notes that humans also possess a deep instinct to contribute to collective knowledge—comparing intellectual breakthroughs to Georges St-Pierre inventing the Superman punch in mixed martial arts.
[02:38:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9488s) Collective Consciousness, Dowsing, and the CRT Buzz
Dan observes collective behaviors in nature, pointing to murmurations of birds, schooling fish, and human mobs as evidence of an underlying shared state. He clarifies that this need not be metaphysical—it could simply be pheromones and chemical signals—just like the instinctive ability to read the hostile energy of a room upon entering. This leads to a discussion of water dowsing and popular intuitions that mainstream science quickly rejects. Dan notes that while academia scoffs, professional well-drillers rely on dowsing rods every day, much like police officers recognize the reality of erratic behavior during a full moon.
When Joe questions how dowsing could possibly work, Dan brings up the sensory phenomenon of older cathode-ray tube (CRT) televisions, recalling how people could sense when a television was on in another room via electromagnetic tension or physical sensations. Joe does not recall ever feeling that, prompting Jamie Vernon to pull up technical information on CRT mechanics. Jamie reads that CRT displays utilized high-voltage flyback transformers and magnetic deflection systems vibrating around the horizontal scan line frequency (roughly 15 to 16 kHz), producing an ultra-high pitch. Younger ears easily detected this frequency, explaining why people could tell a TV was on behind closed doors.
- CRT televisions emit a faint, piercing tone around 15–16 kHz produced by flyback transformers and magnetic deflection coils.
- Younger individuals possess greater high-frequency auditory range, which accounts for the feeling of "sensing" a running tube television.
- Dan likens the dogmatic scientific dismissal of dowsing to the initial skepticism toward full moon madness or sensory anomalies.
[02:41:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9692s) Biases in Science, Ideology, and Replicability
Dan reflects on how human psychology shapes all academic inquiry, noting that disciplines relying on self-reported data—such as psychology—struggle to qualify as hard sciences. He remarks humorously: "You think Epstein told his shrink what he was up to? Fuck no." He explains that human research is continually distorted by the zeitgeist of the era, citing ideological creep into objective disciplines, such as articles advocating for "feminist math."
Joe and Dan discuss how the fundamental purpose of the scientific method is to eliminate personal and political bias through strict replicability. When research collides with cultural sensitivities—such as demographic differences or standardized outcomes—uncomfortable data is often dismissed as inherently biased or labeled racist. Dan points out the logical flaw in the claim that such metrics merely promote white supremacy, noting that Asian populations consistently outperform all other groups across numerous standardized benchmarks, yet that reality is frequently ignored to preserve preferred narratives.
[02:43:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9805s) Social Marxism, the Oppression Olympics, and Police Shooting Statistics
The conversation turns to cultural and ideological friction in modern society. Dan Richards argues that the root of much contemporary division stems from attempting to adapt Marxist theory into something separate from pure economics, transposing it directly onto interpersonal and cultural dynamics as "social Marxism." In his view, this framework inevitably breeds what is commonly called the "oppression Olympics," where individuals continually jockey to prove they have suffered more than their peers—whether lamenting personal financial ruin from child custody battles without state support or wallowing in performative grievances.
To illustrate how selectively demographic data is interpreted under this worldview, Dan highlights policing statistics: approximately 95% of all individuals shot by law enforcement in the United States are male. He sarcastically asks whether society needs a "Men's Lives Matter" movement, or if people recognize how absurd that framing sounds. Joe Rogan notes that men perpetrate the vast majority of violent crime, which directly influences law enforcement perception: an officer naturally feels far more physically threatened when confronting a man rather than a woman, just as perceived threat levels vary across racial encounters due to a mixture of personal experience, regional tensions, and bias.
Dan emphasizes that while racial disparities are immediately labeled pure racism, the overwhelmingly starker gender disparity is rarely framed as pure sexism. He points out a statistical reality: when factoring in sex disparities, an average white male—or even high-profile figures like Donald Trump—statistically faces a roughly twenty times higher probability of being mistakenly shot by police than a Black woman such as Kamala Harris. Rather than discounting racism or sexism, Dan explains that he highlights these figures to expose how selectively statistics are deployed to frame institutional oppression. Rogan agrees, noting that modern cultural spaces treat recognizing oppression as social currency, turning admissions of bias and privilege into competitive virtue signaling where people use the pretext of righteousness to treat others poorly.
[02:45:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9948s) Performative Land Acknowledgments and Institutional Hypocrisy
Dan and Joe dissect institutional gestures of guilt, zeroing in on corporate and academic land acknowledgments as prime examples of empty virtue. Dan points out the hollow posturing of institutions like the University of Kansas, which issue elaborate public apologies expressing regret for occupying ancestral Native American land while taking zero concrete action. They have neither returned an acre of property nor fully repatriated indigenous ancestral remains, despite federal mandates requiring them to do so under the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) since 1990.
Joe shares an experience from the South by Southwest (SXSW) film festival in Austin, recounting the premiere of an alien documentary titled *The Age of Disclosure*. Before the screening began, organizers halted the room to deliver a solemn land acknowledgment recognizing the indigenous tribal lands upon which the theater stood. Joe found the juxtaposition utterly absurd, noting the irony of sitting down to watch a film about extraterrestrial beings invading Earth, only to be subjected to a solemn lecture about human territorial conquest right beforehand. He jokes that an entertainment screening should never be turned into an ideological history lesson or a Maoist-style struggle session: "This isn't a history lesson. This isn't a struggle session. Play the fucking movie! It's literally about us getting invaded by aliens."
[02:47:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=10029s) The Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference and Rejecting AI Shortcuts
As the episode winds down, Rogan prompts Dan to share the details for his upcoming live appearance. Dan plugs the Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference, scheduled for October 16th through October 18th at the ACL Live venue in downtown Austin, Texas. Rogan enthusiastically endorses the lineup of alternative researchers, fringe historians, and comedians slated to take the stage:
- Randall Carlson
- Billy Carson
- David Hatcher Childress
- Kurt Metzger (whom Rogan jokingly describes as looking like "Duncan Trussell on test and doing deadlifts for 10 years")
Looking at promotional graphics for the event, Rogan ribs Dan over the bizarre AI-generated imagery used in the promotional material, teasing that the digital rendering makes Dan look less like himself and more like a strange blend of philosopher Alan Watts and an Amish farmer. Dan takes the teasing in stride, explaining that he refuses to lean on artificial intelligence in his own creative work. He recounts recently meeting with a digital production agency seeking to manage his channel; when Dan established strict non-negotiable boundaries—barring AI-written scripts, AI auto-clipping, AI-generated thumbnail art, and automated bot communications with his supporters—the agency completely balked and had to reassess their pricing model. As Dan told them, stripping away automated AI shortcuts essentially took away their entire tool belt. Rogan and Dan close out the recording with mutual appreciation, celebrating the longevity of independent research and in-person debate.
## Video description
Dan Richards is an independent researcher whose YouTube channel, "DeDunking the Past," examines lost civilizations and alternative history.
Independent researcher Dan Richards and host Joe Rogan argue that physical anomalies and alternative archaeological findings are systematically marginalized by academic institutions and public narratives, suggesting that human prehistory involved complex migrations, archaic hybridization, and lost technical capabilities.
Cranial Modification, Archaic Admixture, and Pathology (0:01)
Richards highlights that artificial cranial deformation was widespread across ancient cultures, including Native American tribes west of the Cascades such as the Chinook, where elongated skulls served as symbols of status and nobility. Beyond cultural signaling, Richards hypothesizes that cranial manipulation may have originated as a physical response to evolutionary mismatches. He points to Chiari malformations—where brain tissue herniates into the spinal canal due to a skull that is too small—theorizing that interbreeding among modern humans, Neanderthals, and Denisovans may have caused elevated intracranial pressure, prompting interventions like trepanation and prophylactic infant head-binding.
In regions such as Paracas, Peru, Richards and Rogan note elevated historical occurrences of cranial anomalies, hydrocephalus, Wormian 'Inca' bones, and polydactyly. Richards contends that whether driven by unknown archaic lineages or deliberate imitation, societies elevated these traits into markers of prestige, citing historical figures like Chief Comcomly who attributed intellectual prowess to cranial binding.
Institutional Resistance and Academic Gatekeeping (16:08)
Richards and Rogan critique academic institutions for dismissing independent research and conflating alternative historical theories with bad-faith motives, such as accusations of racism directed at Graham Hancock. Richards emphasizes that researchers question the absence of written construction records at monumental sites regardless of geography, pointing to the Roman-attributed trilithons at Baalbek alongside monuments in Egypt and the Americas. He argues that institutional defensiveness often stems from professional self-preservation, citing conflicts with mainstream archaeologists like Flint Dibble regarding transoceanic contact evidence on Easter Island.
Furthermore, Richards argues that archaeology is fundamentally distinct from empirical sciences like physics and chemistry because excavations cannot be independently reproduced, relying instead on testimonial records and material interpretation. Rogan observes that mainstream academics facing funding pressures and university hierarchies often resent independent creators who travel directly to archaeological sites and document raw historical evidence for broader audiences.
Disappearing Artifacts and Obscured Records (28:50)
The discussion addresses the disappearance of anomalous artifacts from public view, referencing how institutions handle physical remains. Richards details the 1930s acquisition of Paracas funerary bundles by John D. Rockefeller, pointing out that subsequent institutional storage at major New York museums lacks transparent public documentation. He also references Smithsonian physical anthropologist Aleš Hrdlička's efforts during the 1930s to dismiss large Native American skeletal finds, contrasting these dismissals with recorded excavation measurements such as Dr. Don Dragoo's 1959 Adena mound find of a skeleton measuring 7 feet 3 inches.
Richards reports observing extensive redactions in peer-reviewed reports on the American Southwest, such as the Gila Cliff Dwellings, where specific artifact descriptions and handler identities are blacked out. Rogan and Richards also discuss access bans and security surrounding Grand Canyon caverns, debating whether federal closures stem from sacred tribal protections, hazardous terrain, or obscured military and archaeological sites.
Megalithic Construction and Catastrophic Shifts (88:20)
Rogan and Richards challenge gradualist models of societal evolution, noting that modern science long resisted catastrophism until accepting punctuated events like the Chicxulub impact around 1980. They point to the Younger Dryas boundary around 10,000 BC as an uneven global disruption, considering whether South America functioned as a refuge for advanced pre-cataclysm cultures that possessed sophisticated textile production, cranial surgical skills, and megalithic building techniques.
Addressing monumental sites like Giza and Karahan Tepe, Richards disputes orthodox timelines that attribute massive stone placement to short construction periods, arguing that desk-bound estimates fail to account for the logistics of quarrying and placing multi-ton blocks. He and Rogan also express concern over physical site shelters, such as those erected at Göbekli Tepe and planned for Karahan Tepe, which researchers like Hugh Newman argue can obstruct astronomical alignments and natural site analysis.
The conversation leaves unresolved the precise evolutionary identity behind extreme cranial anomalies and giant skeletal remains, balancing alternative hybridization hypotheses against mainstream dismissals while questioning whether institutional opacity suppresses legitimate revisions to human prehistory.
Detailed notes — zh
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=12s) 奇努克人工拉长头骨与“自由的象征”
节目一开始，Dan Richards 递给 Joe Rogan 一本来自史密森学会（Smithsonian）的小册子，内容涉及人工拉长头骨（elongated skulls）。Joe 原以为这是秘鲁的头骨，但 Dan 指出这些标本实际上来自太平洋西北地区（Pacific Northwest），特别是华盛顿州和俄勒冈州。历史记载中绝大多数拉长头骨其实都源自该区域。
Dan 解释说，这些头骨是人为塑形的。当路易斯与克拉克探险队（Lewis and Clark Expedition）穿过喀斯喀特山脉到达哥伦比亚河时，他们发现喀斯喀特山脉以西的所有美洲原住民都拥有人工拉长的头骨。这本小册子的题目是《奇努克人自由的象征》（*The Chinook: Sign of Freedom*）——在奇努克部落中，拥有被人工改造的头骨是自由人的身份标志；如果没有这种头骨形态，就会被视为奴隶。
册子中重点研究了著名酋长康姆科利（Chief Comcomly，发音一度被讨论为 Connley / Comcomly）。康姆科利在探险期间与路易斯和克拉克会面，百年前他在历史上的名气甚至不亚于萨卡加维亚（Sacagawea），如今却几乎被大众遗忘。他拥有典型的人工拉长头骨，甚至将自己的智慧归功于这种头骨结构。虽然这种形变婴儿期就已完成，当事人无法真正验证因果关系，但这构成了他们坚定的部落信仰。
---
### [01:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=106s) 尼安德特人脑颅、阿诺德-基亚里畸形与身体潜能
Dan 进一步将头骨形变与古人类脑部结构联系起来。他指出尼安德特人（Neanderthal）与现代智人的脑颅（brain case）存在巨大差异，并让制作人 Jamie 调出对比图片。尼安德特人的头骨后部异常宽大，脑容量甚至大于现代人。脑后部主要负责运动技能、嗅觉、视觉和听觉。Dan 提到一种名为“阿诺德-基亚里畸形 I 型”（Chiari malformation type I）的病症——小脑扁桃体下沉进入椎管引起偏头痛等症状；有现代科学家推测，该病症可能源于现代智人与尼安德特人杂交后，脑结构与颅骨空间未能完全契合所致。
Joe 与 Dan 讨论了尼安德特人的实际智力与身体素质：
- **大脑结构差异**：智人的额叶（frontal lobe）更为发达，负责高级思维、决策与推演；尼安德特人的后颅腔更大，感知与运动中枢极度发达。
- **身体素质**：尼安德特人拥有桶状胸膛（barrel chest）、坚硬宽厚的下颌骨，以及巨大的眼眶。Joe 开玩笑说他们的下巴结实到根本不可能被击倒，且天生拥有顶级运动员般的身材，完全不需要举铁。
- **传闻与现实**：曾有人提出耸人听闻的假说，认为尼安德特人是类似大猩猩的顶级掠食者，巨眼是为了夜视并捕食人类。两人虽然觉得这种“徒手撕断人类手臂的森林巨猿”形象非常硬核，但指出其已被基因学证据证伪。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 古人类脑颅特征与杂交影响
accDescr: 对比现代人与尼安德特人的颅骨结构，以及两者杂交可能带来的基因及病理影响。
subgraph Skull_Differences["颅骨结构对比"]
A["现代智人 (Homo sapiens)"] -->|"发达的额叶"| B["高级思维与决策能力"]
C["尼安德特人 (Neanderthals)"] -->|"后颅部极度宽大"| D["超常运动神经、视觉与感知"]
end
subgraph Hybrid_Impact["杂交演化影响"]
A & C -->|"远古跨物种杂交"| E["现代人类基因库"]
E --> F["基亚里畸形 I 型 (小脑扁桃体下疝)"]
E --> G["多指/趾畸形等基因变异倾向"]
end
```
---
### [04:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=243s) 海豚的高脑容量、残酷本能与自然界的道德真空
大脑体积与实际行为的关联引发了关于动物智力的讨论。Joe 指出海豚的脑容量极大，其大脑皮层比人类大约多出 40%。尽管拥有极高智慧，但由于生活在水下无法掌握火与复杂化学反应，也缺乏灵巧的肢体来改造环境，海豚无法发展出技术文明，其智力全部倾注于社交与捕食行为。
随后两人聊到了动物世界的黑暗面：
- **海豚的杀婴行为（Infanticide）**：雄海豚会杀死母海豚身边的幼崽，迫使母海豚重新进入发情期。为了防止这种情况，雌海豚演化出了极度混乱的交配策略——通过与多个雄性交配，让所有雄海豚都无法确定幼崽是否是自己的后代，从而保护幼崽免遭杀戮。
- **拟人化（Anthropomorphism）的荒谬**：人类常常将动物拟人化，以为它们和平友善。黑猩猩同样存在残酷的杀婴与暴力竞争；熊更是经常进入冬眠洞穴捕食其他熊的幼崽，既为了迫使母熊交配，也单纯视幼崽为食物来源。
- Joe 感叹野生熊虽然在马戏团里能被训练踩球或跳芭蕾，但在自然界中是极度残忍的生物，撕扯活物并直接生吞，完全不存在人类所谓的道德与同情。
---
### [07:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=423s) 丹尼索瓦人、多指症基因与古代人工繁育猜想
讨论重新回到古代人种的最新考古发现上。除了尼安德特人，丹尼索瓦人（Denisovans）以及弗洛勒斯人（*Homo floresiensis*，俗称“霍比特人”）的确认彻底改变了古人类学版图。特别是丹尼索瓦人，体型高大，头骨尺寸惊人。
Dan 指出，2023 年的一项最新科学论文发现，尼安德特人和丹尼索瓦人携带一种可导致多指（趾）畸形（Polydactyly）以及颅骨变形（cranial deformations）的基因突变：
- **历史与宗教关联**：《圣经》中曾提到长有六指六趾的巨人族。
- **现实案例**：Dan 在视频中曾介绍过巴西的一个家族，家族多数成员双手天生拥有六根手指（五根手指加一根大拇指）和六个脚趾。他们不仅外观自然，而且认为多一根手指是优势，抓球更稳，弹吉他还能多按一根弦。
- **古代繁育假说**：Dan 提出大胆猜测，南美洲古代文明不仅不歧视这种身体变异，反而对此高度崇拜。他怀疑南美古人可能曾有意识地将不同血统（甚至遗留的古人种后裔血脉）进行定向繁育，以保留诸如六指或特定颅骨特征等特殊身体性状。
### [09:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=559s) 多指症的奇想、守门员优势与吉他神迹
谈话从手指畸形的奇特景象展开。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）和丹·里奇斯（Dan Richards）开玩笑说，看到有人长了多余的手指，那种感觉就像现实中遇到了“矩阵系统（The Matrix）漏洞”或是 AI 生成图像时的畸变——就像 AI 经常画出奇怪的多余肢体，甚至从肘部又长出一个怪异的手肘。两人调侃道，如果一个人喝高了去朋友家，看见对方在弹钢琴，可能会满心疑惑地想：“等等，为什么这曲子听起来动静这么大？等等，你怎么会有这么多手指？”
话题随后转向多指在现实中的物理优势。罗根指出，如果去当足球守门员，多长一根手指简直是无敌的外挂，因为手掌覆盖的面积显著增大，能拦下更多射门；如果在格斗中，多一根手指意味着手掌更宽、拳头更重，出拳破坏力必然倍增。丹·里奇斯则谈到吉他手们的看法：多一根手指的核心优势其实不是手指数量本身，而是超乎常人的延展范围（reach），这让乐手能跨越更多品位。虽然标准吉他是为五指手型设计的，但真正的大师总能打破常规。罗根举出吉米·亨德里克斯（Jimi Hendrix）将右撇子吉他倒过来用左手弹奏的例子，两人更热烈赞叹起奥斯汀本土传奇吉他手史蒂维·雷·沃恩（Stevie Ray Vaughan）。丹提到了著名的“Live at the El Mocambo”现场录像，史蒂维甚至踩在他那把价值上万美元的 Stratocaster 吉他角上，前后剧烈摇晃琴颈，琴弦崩断了也毫不在意，继续全情投入。他们感叹，对这种级别的乐手来说，乐器根本不是娇贵的玩具，而是纯粹表达灵魂的工具。
- 罗根提到自己接手的俱乐部后台保留着史蒂维·雷·沃恩在 1983 年左右登台的老照片。
- 丹提及奥斯汀著名的布鲁斯圣地安东俱乐部（Antone's），罗根表示那里的氛围极棒，自己曾多次去现场看加里·克拉克（Gary Clark Jr.）演出。
---
### [11:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=696s) 疫情封控时期的感染经历与对“相信科学”的反思
罗根回忆起疫情封控期间在奥斯汀看演出的一次难忘经历：演出结束后，后台整个团队和绿室（Green Room）里的所有人都感染了新冠，唯独他自己幸免于难。这引出了丹·里奇斯一直想深入探讨的焦点议题——疫情期间所谓“相信科学（Trust the science）”的说辞如何被武器化。丹直言，自己经常被扣上“科学否认者”的帽子，但他坚决反对这种污名化：“去他的，我是科学的守门人（science gatekeeper）。如果那根本不是科学，你就不能把它叫做科学。”
丹引用了卡尔·萨根（Carl Sagan）的名言：“科学不仅仅是一门知识体系，它是一种思维方式，一种对宇宙保持怀疑态度的审问方式。”丹指出，一种常规疫苗的临床测试和同行评审平均需要大约十年时间，而新冠疫苗在一年半内就仓促推出，这跳过了严谨科学验证应有的步骤；指出这一点绝不是反科学，而是在坚持科学应有的标准。罗根赞同道，这背后牵扯着不可忽视的庞大商业利益，主流叙事坚称没有任何替代疗法，完全是脱离现实的说辞。
---
### [13:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=781s) 罗根染疫风波、公关抹黑与被压制的声音
罗根谈到自己染疫后公开分享治疗方案时遭遇的舆论狂潮。主流舆论将矛头指向罗根的私人医生，甚至将其斥为兜售伪科学。丹指出，私人医生显然是竭尽全力确保雇主活下来，却被推到风口浪尖顶罪。罗根表示，面对疫情危机，公众充满恐慌情有可原，但令人震惊的是，极少有人愿意客观探讨：“那个人到底用了什么方法好转的？”反而铺天盖地都是指责他“宣扬疫苗犹豫”、“反科学”的猎巫行径。
主流媒体甚至发动宣传机器，将他所使用的获得过诺贝尔奖的药物歪曲为“马用驱虫药（horse dewormer）”。罗根强调，大家心知肚明他常年保持高强度健身、补充维生素、使用冷水浸泡（cold plunge）和高压氧舱（hyperbaric chamber）。在科学逻辑下，如果一个体魄极其健康的人通过某些方案顺利康复，这理应成为医学探索的参考范例，尤其对于像美式橄榄球球星阿伦·罗杰斯（Aaron Rodgers）那样对某些疫苗成分过敏的人群而言，替代方案至关重要。然而现实却是全网性的封杀、频道被取消变现甚至封号。丹提到，即便到后来国会举行福奇（Anthony Fauci）听证会，主流支持者们由于信息茧房和认知失调，甚至对其听证会内容一无所知，根本不愿承认自己曾陷入狂热的错误之中。
---
### [16:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=961s) 考古界的分歧：弗林特·迪布尔事件与“业余探索者”的价值
丹·里奇斯指出，在学术与科学探索中，承认错误是做真科学的核心素质。他以考古学家弗林特·迪布尔（Flint Dibble）为例：迪布尔曾在直播中公开嘲笑丹，反驳丹关于复活节岛（Easter Island/拉帕努伊）的论点。丹此前提出，复活节岛最早的可居住地层中发现了来自南美洲和亚洲的食物遗存，这表明一千年前的人类就已经在连接这两个大陆的大洋间航行。迪布尔最初在直播里斩钉截铁地抨击丹“极其自信地胡说八道”，但仅仅过了五分钟，迪布尔就在资料中查证到确实存在跨大洋接触的证据；然而为了保全面子，迪布尔对复活节岛的具体发现闭口不提，只含糊承认存在接触，拒不道歉。
罗根对此表示，学术界在这些争议中掺杂了过多不必要的人身攻击与学术傲慢。传统体制内的考古学家往往鄙视像丹这样的“感兴趣的业余探索者（interested amateurs）”，但事实上，这些不带体制包袱、敏锐审视实际数据与科学细节的独立研究者，原本应当成为考古学界极其宝贵的财富与助力。
### [18:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1088s) 种族主义指控与古代遗址的记录之争
Joe Rogan 和 Dan Richards 探讨了学术界对替代历史学说（尤其是 Graham Hancock）的批评方式。Rogan 指出，虽然公开辩论是正确的方式，但批评者往往并非出于善意，而是试图推行某种叙事；其中最令人不安的，就是将提出“先于现有文明存在的高级文明”这一假说的学者扣上“种族主义”的帽子。Rogan 驳斥称，提出这些理论并不关乎种族，金字塔就是生活在那片土地上的人类的祖先建造的，无论他们生活在公元前 2500 年还是更早，都是当地的原住民。
Dan Richards 补充道，批评者常诡辩称研究者“假定亚特兰蒂斯人是白人，因此只质疑棕色人种建造的奇迹，从不质疑罗马斗兽场或帕特农神庙”。Dan 强调这纯粹是偷换概念：斗兽场和帕特农神庙之所以不被质疑，是因为它们有极其详尽的文字记录，人们清楚知道其建造时间和原因；反观被认为由白人（罗马人）建造的巴勒贝克神庙（Baalbek），其中的巨石三石塔（Trilithon）同样没有任何文字记录，同样引发了替代历史学界的强烈质疑。以治学严谨、记录详尽著称的罗马帝国在巴勒贝克巨石上留下的文字空白，证明人们的质疑与肤色无关，完全取决于是否存在可靠的历史文献。两人还提到 Jimmy Corsetti 的假说——如果该假说属实，亚特兰蒂斯甚至位于撒哈拉以南非洲，属于非洲人。Dan 认为，“亚特兰蒂斯”本质上只是一个统称，代指某个遍布全球的失落文明，正如一万年后的人类可能会把现代人和法国人统称为“电子文明”一样。
- 批评者攻击 Graham Hancock 等人的核心套路之一是指控其研究动机带有“种族主义”。
- 罗马斗兽场与帕特农神庙有确切的文献档案，而黎巴嫩巴勒贝克巨石（Baalbek Trilithon）缺乏建造档案，同样受到独立研究者的追问。
- Dan 认为“亚特兰蒂斯”只是一个代名词，涵盖了那场大灾难前跨越全球的史前高级文明。
---
### [20:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1221s) GSP、即将到来的大会与 Randall Carlson 的说唱轶事
谈话转向了加拿大综合格斗传奇选手 Georges St-Pierre（GSP）。Dan 提到 GSP 即将出席他们的大会，并盛赞 GSP 是极度好奇、善良且聪明的选手，尽管他是史上最伟大的八角笼拳手之一，私下却极其谦逊。Dan 分享了一桩趣事：有一次 GSP 在 Instagram 上晒出高强度腿部训练，Dan 评论自嘲说自己整天坐在电脑前抽大麻读书、永远练不出那种腿，GSP 却真诚回复愿用自己的双腿换 Dan 的大脑，让 Dan 哭笑不得地感叹“你的双腿可是赚了数百万美元啊”。
Dan 宣传了即将在德克萨斯州奥斯汀 ACL Live 举行的“寻找古代文明大会”（Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference，10月16日至18日）。嘉宾阵容包括 Dan Richards、Randall Carlson、Beardson（Bass 4J）、Curt Jaimungal、Duncan Trussell 以及刚刚确认出席的 GSP。Dan 开玩笑称这个组合是“罗根三位一体”——集齐了金字塔、单口喜剧与格斗痛揍。随后，两人聊到 Randall Carlson 鲜为人知的一面：Randall 竟然是个老派嘻哈迷。Dan 透露在亚利桑那州塞多纳合租 Airbnb 时，清晨 Randall 一边吃早餐一边向他展示自己在 1980 年代末写的饶舌词（spitting bars），让端着咖啡抽着烟斗的 Dan 目瞪口呆。Rogan 当场让导播 Jamie 用 AI 搜索引擎 Perplexity 查询 Randall Carlson 的说唱背景。
- 大会名称：“寻找古代文明大会”（Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference）。
- 时间地点：10 月 16 日至 18 日，德克萨斯州奥斯汀的 ACL Live。
- 确认出席嘉宾：Dan Richards、Randall Carlson、Georges St-Pierre (GSP)、Duncan Trussell 等。
- 逸事：地质与灾难论学者 Randall Carlson 自 1980 年代起就创作嘻哈说唱，曾在早餐时即兴说唱。
---
### [23:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1428s) 头骨变形、Chiari 畸形与古代基因融合
对话重新回到史前人类学与畸形头骨的谜团上。Rogan 询问，古代原住民是否为了模仿某些早已存在的族群而刻意改变头骨形状，正如秘鲁帕拉卡斯（Paracas）发现的奇异头骨一样。Dan 阐述了一个全新的医学与演化视角的假说：人工颅骨变形可能源于应对病理生理痛苦。他让 Jamie 调出 Chiari 畸形（小脑扁桃体下疝畸形）的脑部 CT 扫描图。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Chiari 畸形与古代头骨改造关联假说
accDescr: 解释尼安德特人或丹尼索瓦人与智人杂交导致的脑颅不匹配，进而引发穿颅术与人工颅骨拉长的演变过程。
subgraph GenInter ["远古基因混杂"]
A["智人与尼安德特人 / 丹尼索瓦人杂交"] --> B["颅骨与脑容量不平衡<br/>(脑容量偏大 / 颅骨过小)"]
end
subgraph Pathology ["病理性压力"]
B --> C["Chiari 畸形<br/>(脑组织受压下疝)"]
C --> D["剧烈且持续的慢性头痛 / 颅内高压"]
end
subgraph MedicalAdaptation ["远古医疗与仪式性演变"]
D --> E["环锯穿颅术 (Trepanation)<br/>直接打孔释放颅内压力"]
D --> F["人工颅骨拉长 (Skull Elongation)<br/>婴儿期包头重塑骨骼生长空间"]
F --> G["演化为南美帕拉卡斯等文化的社会习俗与地位象征"]
end
```
Dan 解释说，现代医学推测此类问题可能源于现代人与尼安德特人或丹尼索瓦人的基因混血——“颅骨过小，而大脑过大”，导致颅内持续承受巨大压力。为了缓解剧烈头痛，古代先民采取了两种手段：一种是在头上打孔的环锯穿颅术（Trepanation），另一种则是在婴儿期一代代拉长头骨后部，以扩大颅腔容积，避免后代遭受同样的神经压迫。南美洲的帕拉卡斯文化集中展现了这种极端现象：多指畸形（Polydactyly）、拉长头骨和高频穿颅术并存。此外，颅骨缝合处因压力失衡还会形成沃姆氏骨（Wormian bones），其中枕骨部位特别显著的又被称为“印加骨”（Inca bones），常见于印加遗址、复活节岛、太平洋西北部乃至尼安德特人化石中。Dan 推测南美先民当时混合了不同的人种谱系，产生了一系列极端基因突变；有些缺陷被视为病痛，而另一些则演化为神圣的象征，例如奥尔梅克文明中被崇拜的“美洲豹人”以及伴随特定牙齿发育不良（Dental dysplasia）长出獠牙的儿童。
- Chiari 畸形：小脑组织下疝进入椎管，可能因古人类（尼安德特人/丹尼索瓦人）与智人混血造成的脑颅比例失调所致。
- 环锯术（Trepanation）与人工拉长头骨（Artificial cranial deformation）被推论为缓解颅内压的史前“外科与预防手段”。
- 印加骨（Inca bone / Wormian bone）：颅骨承受机械或发育压力时形成的额外骨块，多见于南美安第斯地区及尼安德特人标本。
- 基因突变在古代文化中常被神圣化，例如奥尔梅克（Olmec）的美洲豹特征和罕见牙发育异常引发的“尖牙”表征。
### [26:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1603s) 牙齿变异与消失的“考芬山”长头骨墓地
两人首先讨论了骨骼和牙齿的异常变异。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）提到那些长有多排牙齿的远古头骨，并疑惑这是否代表古代某种早已灭绝的人类分支。丹·理查兹（Dan Richards）解释说，这在现代医学中被称为多生牙畸形（hyperdontia），但从遗传学角度来看，这可能是早期不同人种血统交融留下的痕迹。然而，围绕这些特殊骨骼的真正危机在于有组织的“掩盖事实与洗劫掠夺”。
丹讲述了发生在太平洋西北地区的真实历史：在华盛顿州朗维尤（Longview）有一处名为“考芬山”（Mount Coffin）的印第安人地上墓葬群。当年美国探险队的中尉查尔斯·威尔克斯（Charles Wilkes，其父亲曾是英国骷髅会成员）来到该地时，那里停放着多达 3,000 具遗体。在当地原住民文化中，头部拉长是“自由人”与贵族阶层的绝对象征，只有贵族死后才有资格葬于考芬山，因此这 3,000 具头骨本应全是长头骨。然而在威尔克斯离开时，一场据称是“意外失火”的营火将整个墓地焚烧殆尽，所有头骨从此人间蒸发。当时大量印第安墓地沦为白人冒险家的洗劫目标，白人坐在骨堆上拍照并将遗骨四处倒卖，大量长头骨最终流入了私人收藏家的豪宅。
- 考芬山（Mount Coffin）曾拥有 3,000 具地上原住民贵族墓葬，皆具长头骨特征。
- 查尔斯·威尔克斯中尉到访后，墓地在一场营火事故中化为灰烬，所有长头骨失踪。
- 当地习俗规定唯有长头骨者才算自由人与统治阶层，平民则无此待遇。
---
### [28:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1737s) 洛克菲勒与秘鲁帕拉卡斯干尸包交易
针对这些流失的头骨究竟身在何处，罗根推测它们很可能被洛克菲勒这种顶级富豪藏匿在罗德岛的私人庄园里。丹随即证实，洛克菲勒家族在历史上确实与长头骨有着不可告人的交易。20 世纪 30 年代，秘鲁考古学家胡利奥·C·特略（Julio C. Tello）在帕拉卡斯（Paracas）挖掘出大量长头骨，当时特略每年仅能拿到微薄的 300 美元维护经费，不得不向外界求援。洛克菲勒闻讯后，当即来了一场说走就走的秘鲁之行。
洛克菲勒直接甩下 3,000 美元——相当于特略整整 10 年的科研维护总预算——一口气带走了 4 个未经拆解的干尸包裹（grave bundles）。据称这批干尸包曾先后在纽约大都会艺术博物馆（The Met）和美国自然历史博物馆展出，但诡异的是，如今没有任何照片、素描或公开归还档案可查。丹讽刺道，特略发掘的干尸包共有 300 多个，如果其中某具头骨长着恶魔般的犄角或第三只眼，“洛克菲勒是会留下它，还是把它打包带走？这用脚趾头想都知道！”
不仅如此，全球范围内的博物馆如今正在悄悄下架长头骨展品。丹指出，100 年前同行评审论文中所绘制的人工颅骨变形全球分布图，其涵盖的地理范围远比 10 年前的现代版本更广。许多地区正被学术界悄悄抹去：例如太平洋上的纽埃岛（Niue），以及在夏威夷挖掘出的史前人类遗骸中，有多达 8.9% 具备长头骨特征，但现代考古学界对此讳莫如深，公众甚至被禁止前往调阅这些档案。
---
### [31:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=1878s) 安第斯烛台、帕拉卡斯织物与基因工程隐喻
谈及古人类为何热衷于改变头骨形状，丹提出了一种大胆的假设：当智人（Homo sapiens）初次遇到尼安德特人（Neanderthals）时，双方在交流合作中对彼此独特的认知与观察能力产生了极大的敬意，从而主动促成了跨物种的血缘融合。为了印证“血统交融”这一主题，丹展示了多幅极具冲击力的图像。
首先是著名的“安第斯烛台”（Candelabra of the Andes）地画。这座巨大的地画即便在海上相距 12 英里（约 19 公里）处依然清晰可见，其分叉聚拢的造型与人类血统融合家谱树惊人地一致。随后展示的一幅帕拉卡斯墓葬纺织品更让罗根大为震惊——这幅织物宛如一场“喝了死藤水（Ayahuasca）或吸了 DMT 后的迷幻视觉”：两侧各画着一只长着尾巴的长臂猴子，正通过头顶向中间坐着的存在传递能量；中间的人物不仅显得极具威严，肚子更呈现隆起怀孕的状态。
织物与相关壁画中频繁出现的三指三趾特征，也自然引出了两人对南美“三指木乃伊”（tridactyl mummies）的讨论。丹认为，秘鲁古代可能存在某种复杂的基因干预或近亲混血，导致后代自然产生多种先天畸形与巨颅形态；而当地人为了强化这种“神圣血统”或模仿高级生命，又在婴儿期辅以人工缠头夹板技术，最终造就了极其夸张怪诞的帕拉卡斯长头骨。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 帕拉卡斯长头骨形成假说
accDescr: 展示丹·理查兹关于自然基因变异与人工缠头相结合产生极端头骨形态的假说流程图。
subgraph GENETICS ["1. 基因与混血层面"]
A["远古跨种群交配与血脉融合"] --> B["自然产生的头骨变异与巨大脑容量"]
end
subgraph ARTIFICIAL ["2. 外部物理塑形"]
C["尊崇特殊神性特征 / 缓解头部压力"] --> D["婴儿期夹板缠头 (Head Binding)"]
end
subgraph RESULT ["3. 最终结果"]
B & D --> E["极端特化的秘鲁长头骨与奇特体征"]
end
```
---
### [34:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2054s) 残酷的夹板缠头：眼球凸如落网之鼠
在审视历史上著名原住民酋长的颅骨图像时，两人观察到大多数人工颅骨变形都会使后脑勺向后膨大（bulbous back），从而在不损伤脑组织的前提下改变颅内空间分布。然而，无论其背后的动机是追求贵族地位还是某种功能性需求，这一过程对婴儿来说都极其残酷。
丹引用了一本北美当地历史必读书籍中的目击记录，生动描绘了欧洲人首次目睹原住民为婴儿束脑时的震撼场景：刚出生不久的婴儿被死死捆绑在坚硬的木板装置上，由于头部受到剧烈的机械挤压，“婴儿的双眼直接从眼眶中猛烈凸出，就像一只被死死卡在捕鼠夹里的老鼠一样”。罗根听到这里不禁惊呼“天哪，可怜的孩子！”丹则苦笑着总结道，从另一个角度来看，如果这些孩子天生存在基因缺陷、注定要饱受无休止的严重偏头痛折磨，古代父母或许只能选择用这种近乎折磨的方式去人为重塑他们的头骨。
### [35:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2145s) 秘鲁细长头骨之谜：脑容量与矢状缝的争议
Joe Rogan 和 Dan Richards 围绕秘鲁出土的细长头骨（Paracas 头骨等）展开讨论。Rogan 指出，部分秘鲁头骨的脑容量比常人要大得多，这一点极为诡异。Richards 附和道，怀疑论者和测量者之间长期争论不休——怀疑论者咬定脑容量没有变大，只是通过绑头人工形变导致的拉长，但实际去测量的人却坚称其物理容积确实远超普通人类。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 细长头骨争议图解
accDescr: 展示秘鲁细长头骨在形态学特征、学术争议及背后可能原因之间的关系。
subgraph Features["异常形态特征"]
F1["超常脑容量（物理测量值偏大）"]
F2["缺失矢状缝（Sagittal Suture）"]
F3["极度巨大的眼眶尺寸"]
end
subgraph Debate["学术与流派争议"]
D1["怀疑论学界：人工颅骨绑扎形变"]
D2["测量者/替代研究者：自然变异与基因混血"]
end
Features --> Debate
```
Rogan 让制作人 Jamie 调出那张令他着迷的头骨特写照片。画面中头骨比例巨大且诡异，Rogan 感慨若在现实中遇到这样的人绝对会吓破胆，对方看起来完全不像人类，甚至像“外星来客”。除了巨大的头部和异常庞大的眼眶，Richards 还强调了另一个关键解剖学特征：部分头骨缺失现代人类普遍拥有的矢状缝（Sagittal Suture）。这种特征在丹尼索瓦人或尼安德特人的相关研究中也偶有提及，表明这种头骨形状可能不仅仅是人工捆绑所致，而是存在某种先天的自然生理基础，后来又经过了人工塑形。
- Rogan 惊叹头骨巨大眼眶带来的压迫感，开玩笑道如果带这种人去参加派对，朋友一定会问：“那个一直在读大家心思的家伙是谁？”
- Richards 调侃道，如果玩知识竞答游戏（Trivia），绝对要选长成这样的家伙进自己的队伍。
- 两人探讨屏幕上呈现的右侧头骨是否为真实原物而非 AI 合成，确认其为真实出土文物。
---
### [37:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2266s) 消失的头骨与“网络清理”阴谋论
面对如此惊人的考古发现，Rogan 和 Richards 讨论起这些头骨为何在公众视野中近乎绝迹。Rogan 猜测这些珍贵藏品很可能被私人富豪买走，收藏在罗得岛州纽波特（Newport）那些镀金时代（Gilded Age）的奢华豪宅里。Richards 对此深表赞同，提到自己最近也深陷关于纽波特豪宅的 YouTube 兔子洞，认为那些超级富豪的城堡豪宅里，极可能就摆着装有此类外星人般头骨的玻璃展示柜。
更为诡异的是相关历史文献和数字资料的神秘消失。Richards 透露，背后显然有巨额资金在推动信息封锁：他在制作视频时经常引用关于洛克菲勒（Rockefeller）当年收购这些头骨的记录和文章，但往往两周之内链接就会彻底失效，被迫通过三种不同渠道留存备份。官方历史常声称这些遗骸“已被归还”（repatriated）或“留存在博物馆中”，但当去索要馆藏编录编号时，馆方却往往以“人类遗骸不予编制目录编号”为由搪塞推脱。
Richards 进一步批评主流博物馆以“保护原住民信仰与灵魂观念”为借口将遗骸深藏不库。官方辩称巴布亚新几内亚、中国、复活节岛、夏威夷、太平洋西北部乃至帕拉卡斯的原住民都认为展示头骨会带走灵魂，Richards 认为这种一刀切的说辞非常荒谬：宾夕法尼亚州的门诺会信徒和隔壁邻居尚且信仰不同，环太平洋乃至各大陆的原住民怎么可能想法整齐划一？他直言这根本不是岛民或波利尼西亚人的主张，而是欧洲学术体制与白人策展人在幕后遮掩，以冠冕堂皇的借口将珍品收缴深藏，最终导致互联网上只剩下一张张写着“无可用图片”的空白词条，唯一的一份纸质记录甚至只能在马耳他的某座图书馆中寻得。
---
### [40:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2442s) 优生杂交培育与兔唇“美洲豹婴儿”
对于掩盖真相的动机，Richards 认为这触及了政治极不正确的历史敏感区——古代文明可能存在基于特定生理特征的血统杂交或定向培育计划（Eugenics）。他提出，帕拉卡斯和奥尔梅克等社会中，可能存在精心挑选血统来繁育特定面部特征的人群。
Richards 举出奥尔梅克艺术中反复出现的“美洲豹婴儿”（Jaguar babies）塑像为例：母亲或尊长双手托举着新生儿向公众或神明展示（"Tada! Here's my baby."）。这些婴儿往往患有严重的先天兔唇/唇腭裂（Cleft lip），面容呈现类似猫科动物的特征。在安第斯和中美洲古文明中，唇裂、多指畸形（如六指）等肉体异状被视为天生神圣的象征，西班牙殖民时期的文献亦记载，出生带有兔唇的孩子会被送进神庙担任圣职。
- 展示的文物中包括一枚带有唇裂特征的“战利品头骨”（Trophy skull），为已知同类中的孤例。
- Richards 认为统治阶层会特意挑选面相特征相符的个体进行通婚配种，若生出具有美洲豹面征的孩子便被视为大获成功。
---
### [42:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=2568s) 战利品头骨与南美残酷的祭祀文化
对话随后转向南美洲古文明的战利品头骨习俗与大规模人祭现象。南美土著并不总是像某些部落那样将头颅制成缩头术标本，而是直接在头骨额头处钻孔、穿入绳索，作为战利品直接悬挂在腰带上四处行走。这种佩戴在身上的头骨不仅代表战功与威慑，若是来自敌对的贵族阶层，更是象征极高地位的炫耀品。
在浏览屏幕上的战利品头骨照片时，画面显示出甚至连头皮和头发都完整保留的风干头颅。资料记录显示，许多被制成战利品头骨的受害者实际上是年轻女性（大约 13 至 16 岁），令 Rogan 感叹其原始与血腥。
期间 Rogan 顺带问及对秘鲁纳斯卡“三指木乃伊”（Tridactyl mummies）的看法。Richards 坦言早先出现的微小个体看起来“假得离谱，就像蛋糕一样”，但随后那些经过 CT 扫描、被证实距今至少 1200 年的大型木乃伊则令人震惊，如果 1200 年前有人能伪造出具有完整解剖结构的骨骼几乎不可思议，他认为深入提取并测序 DNA 才是彻底查明真相的正途。Rogan 随后感叹，整个南美古文明（如阿兹特克文明）对活人祭祀的狂热与规模超乎想象，暴力与血祭已经深深嵌入到这些古代社会的骨髓与文化结构之中。
### [04:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=281s) 西班牙征服与被焚毁的中美洲古抄本
对话从西班牙殖民者埃尔南·科尔特斯（Hernán Cortés）征服阿兹特克帝国的历史背景切入。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出，阿兹特克人长期残酷地对周边部族进行活人祭祀，这正是为什么科尔特斯能够轻易联合其他原住民族群一同围剿阿兹特克人——那些被压迫的部落早已受够了充当祭品。然而，战胜之后的结局却极其讽刺：盟友们并未获得应有的回报。
丹·理查兹（Dan Richards）提到一段令他印象深刻的历史惨剧：西班牙修士要求原住民将所有的中美洲古抄本（Mesoamerican codices）集中运来，声称要将它们保存在书架上，结果当海量的珍贵文献送到后，修士直接一把火将它们付之一炬。如今，幸存下来的古抄本屈指可数。理查兹提到，大约三年前，墨西哥政府花费约 25 万美元从一个保管了 500 年的家族手中购回了一批古抄本，其中甚至记载了特奥蒂瓦坎（Teotihuacan）的建造过程；当他把这件事告诉马特·贝尔（Matt Bell）时，对方感叹道，对于如此无价的文明遗产而言，25 万美元简直便宜得不可思议。
### [04:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=293s) 亚洲战利品头骨与怪异的在线交易市场
随着屏幕上展示出一组令人不寒而栗的头骨图片，两人的讨论转向了古代的“战利品头骨”（trophy skulls）。这些头骨的造型异常诡异恐怖，罗根惊呼它们看起来就像电影《猛鬼追魂》（Hellraiser）或《铁血战士》（Predator）里的道具。理查兹解释，这些其实是在亚洲发现的祖先或战利品头骨。
部分头骨甚至被人工镶嵌了野猪獠牙，有的头骨鼻腔部位伸出尖角，还有一副赫然被标注为“人类儿童战利品头骨”。在一副头骨两侧甚至挂着类似现代耳机的怪异装饰。更让他们震惊的是，屏幕上的页面竟然留有联络购买的邮箱（info email），来自一个名为“Tribal Art Asia”的部落艺术品交易网站。两人调侃起网络上各种奇怪的头骨商品：
- 理查兹透露，他在 Etsy 上发现有人专门售卖这种手工复刻的猎奇头骨，卖家的网名直接就叫“Monster”（怪物）。
- 罗根在网上检索到一件来自加州千橡市（Thousand Oaks）私人收藏的“20世纪早期达雅克人（Dayak）战利品头骨”，不仅标有高昂售价，还附带详细出处。
- 罗根感叹，如果在演播室的桌子上摆一个真人头骨实在太诡异了，因为谁也不知道死者生前究竟经历了怎样可怕的死亡。
### [04:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=288s) 科姆克利酋长的不幸遭遇与颅骨收藏史
理查兹分享了自己探究这一课题的渊源：奇努克人（Chinook）的科姆克利酋长（Chief Comcomly）。科姆克利曾是对白人极其友善且极具战略眼光的部落领袖。他将女儿们嫁给毛皮捕兽人；当白人将堡垒迁至 30 英里外时，他甚至伤心落泪。当年轻的部落勇士提议趁机屠杀白人时，科姆克利理智地劝阻他们：“看看他们的布匹织得有多紧密，看看他们的武器有多精良。现在他们还没带女人和孩子来，你们觉得这就是他们的全部实力吗？一旦他们举家迁徙而来，会有多么可怕的力量？千万别招惹这些人。”
然而，这位极富智慧的酋长去世仅三年后，英国人就盗掘了他的遗体。尽管族人为了防止被盗而打破了传统的高架独木舟葬（canoe burial），将他秘密掩埋，但他依然被挖出斩首。英国人将他的头骨带回英国，甚至极其不敬地在头骨后部刻上了说明文字。直到这具头骨被归还给奇努克人五年后，相关事件才彻底公之于众。理查兹指出，正是由于历史上充斥着此类极度残忍与不尊重的行径，像史密森尼学会（Smithsonian Institution）等官方机构在处理和展示这类遗骨时才会面临极大的道德与政治阻力。
### [04:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=299s) 秘鲁帕拉卡斯头骨、基因杂交与烛台地画之谜
罗根将话题引向著名的秘鲁帕拉卡斯（Paracas）长头骨：这究竟只是人工摇篮绑头造成的颅骨变形（cranial deformation），还是存在另一种不同的人类物种？理查兹坚信这极可能代表了不同的人类物种或谱系。虽然他不热衷于外星人假说，但他承认，如果真有地外生命干预人类基因，秘鲁绝对是最有力的“确凿证据”（smoking gun）所在地——当地充斥着大量唯有从空中才能俯瞰的巨型艺术创作。
理查兹重点提到了位于皮斯科湾的“帕拉卡斯烛台”（Paracas Candelabra）地画。该图案巨大无比，在 12 英里外的海上都能清晰望见。理查兹提出了一个大胆的推测：这个外形如同分叉树状的符号，实际上代表的是“族谱”（Family Tree）或基因杂交的标志。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 古代基因混合与颅骨特征假说
accDescr: 描述理查兹关于丹尼索瓦人或尼安德特人基因渗入导致现代人出现巨颅症及唇裂等生理特征的推论链条。
subgraph GENETICS["古人类基因渗入"]
A["智人 (Homo sapiens)"]
B["丹尼索瓦人 / 尼安德特人"]
A <--> B
end
subgraph SYMPTOMS["基因混合产生的病理表征"]
C["先天性脑积水 / 巨颅畸形 (Hydrocephalus)"]
D["唇裂 / 腭裂 (Harelip)"]
end
subgraph ARCHAEOLOGY["考古发现与符号象征"]
E["帕拉卡斯长头骨 / 巨型颅骨"]
F["帕拉卡斯烛台地画<br/>(族谱/基因干预符号)"]
G["复活节岛雕刻头骨<br/>(相似的三叉/鸟人符号)"]
end
GENETICS --> SYMPTOMS
C --> E
D --> E
E -.-> F
F <--> G
```
理查兹进一步阐明其理论依据：
- **基因混合的病理表征**：多篇学术研究指出，当人类与丹尼索瓦人或尼安德特人基因大规模交融时，面部及骨骼发育畸形的几率会大幅上升，例如唇裂（兔唇）以及导致头骨异常巨大的脑积水（hydrocephalus）。在帕拉卡斯出土的部分巨大颅骨上，这种特征非常显著。
- **跨大洋的符号呼应**：这一“烛台”或三叉树状图案并非孤例，复活节岛（Easter Island）出土的人类头骨上也发现了后天刻凿的同款分叉符号。
- **复活节岛的考古证据**：在杰米（Jamie Vernon）协助检索下，屏幕调出了复活节岛经过艺术雕刻的头骨文献。虽然复活节岛的长头骨大多遗失且极难找到照片，但文献清楚记录了死者头骨上的雕刻：其中一个被称为“鸟人”（Birdman）符号，另一个则展示了几乎相同的三叉结构图案。
- 罗根最后打趣地指着屏幕上一张文献图绘补充，某些头骨后方的符号看起来就像是极其露骨的生殖图案，引得两人一阵发笑。
### [54:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3241s) 基因变异的社会崇拜与秘鲁古代骨骼
两人就古代人体骨骼和艺术造形展开讨论，半开玩笑地提及某些早期艺术形象像极了低劣的纹身，甚至戏谑某些骨骼特征的成因。随后 Dan Richards 将话题拉回正题，指出颅骨后部发现的缝间骨（Wormian bones）常被称为“印加骨”（Inca bones），因为该特征在古代印加人中极为常见。南美洲和秘鲁地区的历史人群中，唇腭裂、多指（趾）畸形（polydactyly）等生理特异性的发生率远高于世界其他地区。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 古代社会对生理变异的推崇演化
accDescr: 展示遗传变异如何在古代社会中因被赋予特殊意义而发展成广泛的文化与审美趋势。
subgraph 遗传基础
A["GLI3 基因等古代等位基因"] --> B["生理表征: 缝间骨、多指、颅骨拉长"]
end
subgraph 社会认知与文化选择
B --> C["个体偶然展现出特殊智慧或技能"]
C --> D["群体形成神圣化审美与崇拜"]
D --> E["引发广泛的模仿趋势 (如颅骨绑缚拉长)"]
end
```
Dan Richards 分析道，除了令人难以置信的拉长头骨外，古代印加文明的图像与造物中处处流露出对遗传畸变的赞美与推崇。如果一个社会全盘尊崇具有特定长相的孩子，人们自然会渴望拥有这种外貌的后代。Joe Rogan 赞同这一观点，指出这种特征很可能伴随着现实利益或社会地位。Dan 补充说，只要人群中曾有一个长相奇特、患有唇腭裂的孩童碰巧展现出了爱因斯坦般的卓越智力，整个部落或社会就可能形成一种固定认知，认为“具备这种外貌特征的人都很了不起”。随后，Joe Rogan 顺势插入了一段赞助商 BetterHelp 的心理健康服务广告，呼吁男性打破传统污名，勇敢寻求心理疏导。
- 秘鲁古代人群中，缝间骨（印加骨）、唇腭裂和多指症的发生频率处于全球极高水平。
- 古代人群对畸变特征的模仿，宛如15世纪欧洲梅毒流行引发王室乃至全民佩戴假发的社会流行趋势。
---
### [57:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3433s) 纳斯卡木乃伊与 GLI3 基因研究
谈话转到了具有争议的秘鲁纳斯卡（Nazca）“蒙塞拉特”（Montserrat）三指木乃伊遗骸上。Joe Rogan 提到，这些三指、三趾、且似乎长有多余肋骨或多余脊椎骨的骨骼样本，看起来完全不像普通人类。如果是伪造的，碳十四测年显示其距今已有 1,200 年历史；但在一千多年前，古代人根本不可能预判现代的 CAT（CT）扫描技术，并去伪造一个完全包裹在白黏土和干燥木乃伊组织内、内部结构严丝合缝的骨骼标本。
Dan Richards 从遗传学角度给出了科学层面的呼应。他指出，在现代针对多指（趾）症的研究中，科学家曾对小鼠引入尼安德特人（Neanderthal）与丹尼索瓦人（Denisovan）携带的 `GLI3` 基因变异体。实验结果显示，该变异在小鼠体内诱发了一系列复杂的表型改变：不仅产生了多余的肋骨和脊椎骨，还导致了颅骨变形、牙齿形态异常，以及额外的手指（有时是健全的多指，有时是退化的多指）。两人随即开起了《巨脑与笨狗》（Pinky and the Brain）的玩笑，调侃变异的小鼠是否会变得格外聪明、在玻璃窗上留字条甚至密谋征服世界。
- 秘鲁争议木乃伊表面覆盖白色黏土并完全干尸化，其骨骼异象在外部不可见，唯有借助 CT 扫描才能察觉。
- 科学家在小鼠中测试丹尼索瓦人和尼安德特人相关的 `GLI3` 基因变异，成功复现了多指、额外肋骨/脊椎骨及颅骨牙齿形态改变等表征。
---
### [58:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3535s) 史密森尼学会、阿列斯·赫德利奇卡与阿迪纳古冢巨骨之谜
Joe Rogan 询问 Dan Richards 是否相信史密森尼学会（Smithsonian Institution）曾经接收并隐匿了巨型人类骨骼。Dan 直言自己曾经对此持怀疑态度，但深入研究档案后观念发生了巨大改变。他点名了原籍匈牙利的体质人类学家阿列斯·赫德利奇卡（Aleš Hrdlička，曾任美国国家博物馆体质人类学馆长）。Dan 指出，赫德利奇卡原本是一名医生，信奉类似颅相学的身体决定论，认为骨骼特征反映了种族优劣，并怀有强烈的白人优越主义偏见。为了推行这一套理论，他甚至转行成为人类学家。
在20世纪30年代，赫德利奇卡极力驳斥所有关于美洲原住民骨骼大于白人的考古发现，声称全都是测量错误，并系统性地将巨骨记录定性为伪科学。Dan 尖锐地比喻赫德利奇卡的做法就像“被警察拦下的司机掏出一包烟说‘看，我身上根本没带毒品’一样”。绝大多数原始骨骼的照片与证据在此后几乎被彻底抹除。
这种压制在后来变本加厉。1959年，卡内基博物馆（Carnegie Museum）人类学部门主管唐·德拉霍（Dr. Don Dragoo）在发掘一处阿迪纳文化（Adena）土冢时，根据现场墓坑原位测量（in-ground measurement），认定出土的一具人类骨骼生前身高应达 7 英尺 3 英寸（约 2.21 米）。然而，学术界随后直接将德拉霍推到风口浪尖进行贬损，声称那仅仅是现场粗测而缺乏后续数据支持，彻底否定了该发现。而那具被送入卡内基博物馆的大型骨骼，随后在流转记录中彻底下落不明。
- 阿列斯·赫德利奇卡（Aleš Hrdlička）：20世纪早期极具影响力的人类学家，主导推翻了北美所有大型古人类骨骼的真实性报告。
- 唐·德拉霍（Don Dragoo）：1959年卡内基博物馆学者，发掘出推算生前高约 7 英尺 3 英寸的阿迪纳古冢骨骼，随后遭到学术界边缘化与冷处理。
- 历史上涉及超常骨骼（巨骨、异形拉长头骨）的标本，送交主流机构后往往出现保管链中断并彻底失踪的现象。
---
### [01:01:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3712s) 丹尼索瓦人骨架与史前巨人民族猜想
探讨走向深层假说：历史上记载的“巨人”是否属于一个与现代智人完全不同、或者混血程度迥异的古人类分支？Joe Rogan 和 Dan Richards 再次将多指（六指/六趾）传说与丹尼索瓦人基因联系起来。现代人身上仅存少量尼安德特人或丹尼索瓦人的 DNA 碎片，但在数千年前，不同种群之间所继承的古代人种基因比例可能截然不同。
Dan 强调，已知科学推论表明，丹尼索瓦人的体型平均比现代人至少高出 6 英寸（约 15 厘米）以上。Joe Rogan 用沙奎尔·奥尼尔（Shaquille O'Neal）来打比方：人类群体内部本身就存在巨大的身高极值差异；如果一个古老物种的基线体型本就庞大，那么其群族中的极端高个个体完全有可能达到骇人的巨人尺度。两人进一步提到中国近期发表的关于“巨颅人”（Homo juluensis，聚乐人）以及“龙人”（Dragon Man）的研究化石，学术界正逐步认识到这些巨型粗壮的头骨很可能就对应着此前只通过少量指骨和小块骨片被认知的丹尼索瓦人谱系。由于目前出土的丹尼索瓦完整骨架极其罕见，缺乏完整的墓葬群样本，人类至今仍无法彻底划定这一神秘庞大人种的真实体型上限。
### [01:03:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=3799s) 巨人体型与异常骨骼记录的争议
在探讨古人类或巨人体型时，乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）指出，现代人对许多古代人类族群的认知绝大多数来自 DNA 分析，而非大量骨骼样本。罗根抛出一个关键疑问：那些传说中高达 12 英尺（约 3.66 米）的巨人究竟是否真实存在？世界上固然有 5 英尺高的人，也有 9 英尺高的极端案例，但其成因大相径庭。罗根提到历史上最著名的罗伯特·瓦德罗（Robert Wadlow），其极端身材源于脑下垂体肿瘤引发的巨人症（Gigantism），导致身体无节制地生长。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 现代极端身高成因与古代骨骼记录分类
accDescr: 对比现代巨人症案例与历史挖掘中的异常骨骼记录特征
subgraph Modern["现代极端身高成因"]
P["脑下垂体病变 / 巨人症<br/>（如 Robert Wadlow）"]
G["基因遗传与自然骨架异常<br/>（如 Sultan Kösen：8英尺2.8英寸）"]
end
subgraph Ancient["历史出土记录特征"]
T["多排牙齿（双排牙）"]
D["六指 / 六趾畸形"]
S["学术界争议：现场原位测量 vs 活体身高推算"]
end
Modern -.-> Ancient
```
罗根随后查验了当代吉尼斯世界纪录保持者——来自土耳其的苏丹·科森（Sultan Kösen），他在 2011 年测得的身高为 8 英尺 2.8 英寸（约 2.51 米）。罗根感叹，土耳其拥有哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）等全球最古老的遗址之一，而科森站立时的体态并未显现出明显的巨人症头面畸形，引发了他对远古残留基因的猜想：这种极端身高究竟是单纯的个体畸变，还是混杂了某种未知远古人种的古老 DNA？丹·理查兹（Dan Richards）随后指出，在历史文献记录中，所谓的“巨人遗骸”并非千篇一律：
- 并非所有记录都包含“六指、六趾”或“双排牙齿”的特征，变异形态因个案而异。
- 北美土壤挖掘（如印第安土丘体系）中留下了大量由普通农夫或业余爱好者声称的巨人发现，理查兹对此类二手道听途说持极度怀疑态度。
- 但有大约 12 起严谨可靠的记录出自极具声望、在学界地位显著的知名人类学家之手，这些学者绝无动机捏造数据自毁前程。
- 理查兹提及，某些现代人类学家为了维护主流历史框架，轻率地将前人严谨的人体推算驳斥为“仅仅测量了地表墓坑尺寸”，实质上是在强行掩盖异常学术记录。
---
### [01:06:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4006s) 考古学的方法论局限：科学还是“信奉”？
围绕主流学界的傲慢态度，理查兹尖锐地批判了当代理学界的话语权垄断，直言“考古学根本不是一门他妈的科学”（archaeology is not a fucking science）。他解释道，科学的真正基石在于**可重复性（Replicability）**。例如在基础化学中，任何人在任何地点化合氢与氧，都会得到相同的结果；然而考古学在本质上是“通过物质遗存研究人类文化”，一旦某个地点的遗存被挖掘出来，这个过程就永远无法重复。一个人在自家后院挖出一件东西，外界要么全盘相信，要么彻底否定，这在逻辑结构上更接近于神学信条，而非自然科学。
罗根对此提出辩护，指出考古学界拥有严密的现场保护规范、多方相互制衡的监察流程、完整的保管链（Chain of Custody），并且广泛借用了基于物理学原理的放射性碳定年法（Carbon Dating）。然而，理查兹反驳称，借用科学工具并不等同于学科本身具备科学属性：
- 即便一名《超级马力欧兄弟》（Super Mario Bros.）的游戏速通玩家运用了高度系统化的科学测量与试验方法，速通本身也不是一门科学。
- 历史学家与考古学家都清楚自己不是自然科学家，他们只有在需要做碳十四测定时才会向真正的物理学家求助。
- 天文学虽然同样无法人工复现“超新星爆发”，但全球有上百台望远镜同时对准同一天区，彼此的数据集能够相互印证，构成了实质上的可重复检验。
- 孤立唯一的出土文物（如安提基特拉机械，Antikythera Mechanism）则完全依赖于信条与世界观匹配；若某人认定该机械是伪造的，外界很难单凭现场的不可逆过程予以铁证驳斥。
理查兹强调，当建制派考古学者将自身的主观断言包装成不可置疑的“科学定律”，并利用诸如“克洛维斯优先”（Clovis First）这类既定范式排挤打压一切异见时，他们实际上背离了真正的科学精神。
---
### [01:10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4245s) 学术审查、职业摧毁与权威心态
两人随后转向建制派学者对待异见证据的恶劣态度。罗根回忆了弗林特·迪布尔（Flint Dibble）在辩论中的表现：迪布尔竭力否认考古学界存在系统性打压相悖证据的现象，甚至将那些毁人前途的学阀行径轻描淡写地称为正常的“学术辩论”（academic debate）。
理查兹与罗根直斥这种否认极其虚伪。历史上有充分的文献记录表明，早期的权威学者（包括主张美洲在 3000 年前绝无人类定居的代表人物）长期在学术界实行严酷的思想审查。在福尔瑟姆文化（Folsom tradition）的官方历史记录甚至维基百科页面上，依然明确记载着：在很长一段时期内，任何渴望在学术界谋得生存与职业生涯的年轻考古学者，都绝不敢提出早于主流标准的年代假设，否则就会被当时的几位学界泰斗彻底砸碎饭碗、断送学术前程。
罗根总结道，这种现象的本质就是人类的虚荣与权力欲（Ego），尤其是掌控话语权的男性学者为了确立自身作为“信息守门人”和“至高权威”的地位，宁可扼杀真实发现也要捍卫既有的叙事框架。
### [01:11:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4310s) 学术界体制与独立研究者的热忱
乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）和丹·理查兹（Dan Richards）探讨了建制化学术界人士对独立内容创作者的敌意。罗根以弗林特·迪布尔（Flint Dibble）为例指出，当一个学者耗费毕生心血研究某一领域，却看到格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）写出的另类历史畅销全球时，学术专家的自尊心会遭受沉重打击。罗根分析，学术界被申请研究经费、终身教职评审以及层层审批的官僚体系所捆绑；相比之下，像吉米·科塞蒂（Jimmy Corsetti）、卢克·考尔斯（Luke Caverns）和本·范·克尔克维克（Ben van Kerkwyk）这样的独立创作者没有任何体制束缚，能够直接动身飞往世界各地实地考察并拍摄视频。
关于古王国（Old Kingdom）及古代遗迹的海量文献对所有人都是公开的，只要有人愿意投入时间深入研读就能掌握。罗根认为，许多体制内学者甚至没有独立研究者那么痴迷，建制派完全应该把独立创作者视为一种研究资源，而不是将其当作敌人来排挤。理查兹深表赞同，并举了一个具体案例：吉米·科塞蒂两年前在社交平台 X 上发帖提问，探讨圣经中的拿非利人（Nephilim）是否可能是丹尼索瓦人（Denisovans）或尼安德特人（Neanderthals）。当时外界尚不清楚丹尼索瓦人的体型特征，体制内考古学家立刻群起攻之，嘲笑吉米愚蠢，理由是传说中的拿非利人是巨人，而这两种古人类体型都矮于现代人类。
理查兹指出，合格的科普工作绝不应该是居高临下地嘲笑和否定公众的好奇心，而应顺势引导。当时理查兹在网上观望几天后给出了科普示范：告诉吉米丹尼索瓦人和尼安德特人确实偏矮，但古人类演化史上还存在像步氏巨猿（Gigantopithecus）这样体型远大于人类的物种，不如去调研那些物种看看有什么收获。理查兹直言，优秀的科普是“看到别人对兔子洞产生兴趣时，把他头朝下推进去深入探索”，而不是嘲讽说兔子洞根本不存在。
### [01:13:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4435s) 化石记录的缺失与古代人类文明的假说
罗根提出，全人类在认知古史时都应遵循一个基本共识：现存的所有证据仅仅代表了曾经生活过的人类极小的一部分碎片。尤其年代极其久远的事物，化石化概率极低，数据始终是严重不足的。理查兹赞同这一判断。罗根进一步展开，正因为数据稀缺，当西伯利亚等地的洞穴中出土哪怕一根全新骨骼时，科学家可能就会惊呼发现了一个完全未知的古人类种群；随着不断出土新标本，人类对自身演化历史的理解才能更加丰富。
罗根提到迈克尔·巴顿（Michael Button）制作的一部精彩视频：解剖学意义上的现代人类在几十万年前就已经存在，为何现代人会武断地认为，复杂的逻辑思维、工具制造与文明技术仅仅出现在最近几百年或几千年？如果几十万年前拥有相同大脑结构的人类祖先曾发明过某种复杂事物，在地球漫长的自然风化、地质吸收与地壳变动下，痕迹早已荡然无存，现代人完全找不到证据也是极合逻辑的推论。
理查兹对迈克尔·巴顿赞赏有加，并回顾了过去一年半罗根播客的嘉宾阵容。理查兹打趣说，罗根在节目里轮番邀请了他身边的一整圈好友——从卢克·考尔斯到其他独立学者，看着这些朋友一个个坐上访谈椅感觉非常奇妙。
### [01:16:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4564s) 科学研究中的人身审判与卡尔·拉夫恩的历史先例
两人聊到了探索者身上的痴迷与激情。理查兹提到喜剧演员邓肯·特鲁塞尔（Duncan Trussell）曾夸奖他对待古史的狂热劲头如同艾萨克·牛顿爵士（Sir Isaac Newton）。理查兹自嘲虽然比不上牛顿的才华，但体内的化学物质可能一样多。罗根好奇牛顿是否是个经常体验精神致幻状态的人（tripper），理查兹解释牛顿其实是个痴迷的炼金术士，最终甚至死于严重的汞中毒。
理查兹借此讽刺当下的取消文化：在当今社会，如果一个科学家在政治立场上有偏差，公众就会直接全盘否定其科学成就。假如把这套道德审判放在牛顿身上，人类连微积分和万有引力定律都得不到，因为当时的社会大可以说牛顿否认三位一体，甚至整天沉迷炼金术，从而认定他是个疯子而将他的成果全盘抹杀。理查兹表示，在独立研究社群中摸索时，他学会了坦然面对分歧：即便自己与某个人在 80% 的事情上观点相左，但只要对方拿出的 20% 数据是真实客观的，就依然有极高的参考价值。
理查兹举了19世纪丹麦学者卡尔·克里斯蒂安·拉夫恩（Carl Christian Rafn）的例子。拉夫恩曾坚持认为维京人早于哥伦布发现了美洲大陆。然而拉夫恩最初的研究动机带有极为强烈的偏见：每当他看到刻有符文的美洲石块，他就会断定愚蠢的美洲原住民绝不可能刻出这种石头（尽管原住民的所有武器都是石器），因此必定是白人所为。理查兹指出，尽管拉夫恩最初的推导逻辑一团糟，但他随后的调查是扎实认真的，并最终通过真实的考古证据证实了维京人确实曾抵达美洲。因此，即便研究者的个人立场令人厌烦，只要其提供的数据真实，就必须认真对待其证据。
### [01:18:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4680s) 亚特兰蒂斯假说被污名化与“扣种族主义帽子”的抹黑策略
罗根指出，亚特兰蒂斯（Atlantis）相关的历史研究如今面临极其严重的污名化困境。以弗林特·迪布尔为代表的建制派学者总是将亚特兰蒂斯与白人至上主义及种族主义捆绑在一起。历史上确实曾有一帮白人至上主义者声称白人创造了亚特兰蒂斯文明，但那些人根本不是正经的历史学者，而且当下的严肃探索者（如格雷厄姆·汉考克、理查兹以及本·范·克尔克维克）没有一个人在宣扬那种观点。罗根强调，不能因为历史上曾有道德败坏的种族主义者相信过某种扭曲的亚特兰蒂斯学说，就给每一个调查亚特兰蒂斯遗迹的人都扣上种族主义者的帽子，这种逻辑荒谬至极。
理查兹补充说，建制派常指责另类历史“助长了种族主义”，证据是“许多白人至上主义者引用了这些理论”。理查兹对此反驳：白人至上主义者同样会引用关于贫困、犯罪等各类社会统计数据，难道社会就该因此废除所有的统计学研究吗？为了说明极端群体恶意挪用概念的现象，理查兹举了麦当劳在 20 世纪 80 年代推出的“晚间麦克”（Mac Tonight）月亮人广告形象：
- 该广告原本是月亮人弹着钢琴演唱《麦克刀》（Mack the Knife）的改编曲，招揽夜间食客；
- 但在大约 15 年前，某些网络极右翼分子开始用月亮人形象搭配合成语音制作种族主义表情包；
- 这显然不能代表麦当劳本身是种族主义企业，只说明极右翼种族主义者会恶意挪用任何流行文化符号。
罗根紧接着指出，悲伤蛙（Pepe the Frog）就是最典型的受害者——原作者马特·弗里（Matt Furie）根本毫无种族主义倾向，甚至公开声明抵制这种挪用，但该形象依然遭到了政治符号的劫持。理查兹和罗根总结道，指责另类历史研究者是“种族主义”根本不是为了学术辩论，而是一种卑劣的公关手段：当建制派无法在金字塔建造技术等具体学术议题上驳倒对手时，只要扣上一顶“种族主义”的大帽子，就能迅速挑动公众情绪，从而在道德层面上彻底将对方全盘否定。
### [01:20:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4805s) 政治部落主义与社交媒体的极化陷阱
丹·里士满（Dan Richards）感叹当下政治环境的荒谬与可悲。他透露，每逢选举周期，无论是现实中的朋友还是线上的粉丝，都会因为他没有公开支持某位候选人而找他麻烦。他的回应一贯且明确：自己的频道专注于探讨古代历史，根本不聊现代政治，更不可能在平台上为任何政客背书。他犀利地反问道，为什么大家那么在乎像碧昂丝（Beyoncé）这样的明星对政治发表什么看法？演艺名星根本不是政治分析师，为何要逼迫一个历史博主表明立场？
乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）接话指出，现代社会似乎要求所有人步调一致地站队。罗根开玩笑说，这个国家好像有三分之一的人骨子里都像“小希特勒”，坚信如果全世界所有人想法都和他们一模一样，世界就会变得更美好；滑稽的是，这群人往往还自诩为最开明、最富有同情心的一群人。罗根认为，这是社交媒体催生的部落主义恶果。每个人都有权发表观点，但这并不意味着他们的观点具有价值，或者值得他人倾听。面对充满恶意的偏见与分歧，唯一正确的做法是允许观点的光谱存在，并用更具建设性、更优质的视角去反驳，而不是试图消灭和封杀所有不同声音——尤其是在古代历史这样充满谜团与复杂性的领域。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 现代舆论与学术争议的极化逻辑
accDescr: 展示政治部落主义与正统考古学机构对待异见者的对抗路径与反思
subgraph Society["社交媒体与现代舆论"]
A["强制选边站队<br/>(部落主义心态)"] --> B["试图审查与消灭<br/>不同观点"]
B --> C["阻断健康对话与包容"]
end
subgraph Academia["正规学术界对待业余研究者"]
D["无视建会初衷<br/>(SAA放弃扶持业余者)"] --> E["动机：学术傲慢与<br/>商业嫉妒(自媒体流量)"]
E --> F["政治化指控：扣上<br/>'白人至上主义'标签"]
end
C -.->|"呼吁理性反击"| G["用事实与更优视角辩论<br/>承认人类未知的留白"]
F -.->|"呼吁理性反击"| G
```
### [01:22:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=4920s) 美国考古学会的傲慢与业余研究者的崛起
讨论顺势转向正统学术界对民间爱好者的打压。里士满搬出了美国考古学会（Society for American Archaeology，简称 SAA）最早的章程进行对照：该学会成立的第一条宗旨，原本是致力于在正规考古学家与感兴趣的业余爱好者之间建立良好关系，并在业余人士提出请求时主动提供协助。然而在当下，正规学术界不仅彻底摧毁了这种互信与合作，双方甚至到了完全无法对话的僵局。
罗根一针见血地指出，学术界态度的恶化很大程度上源于嫉妒心。如今许多民间研究者站在了公众关注的聚光灯下，并且靠着自媒体获得了丰厚的收益。例如本·范·科克维克（Ben van Kerkwyk，频道 UnchartedX 的创作者）等人的视频在 YouTube 上能斩获数百万次播放量，这背后代表着切实的商业收益。而许多寒窗苦读、熬出学位的专业学者收入微薄，眼睁睁看着“业余人士”靠历史内容赚大钱，心态难免失衡。里士满苦笑着补充，当某些学术权威得知他有 Patreon 赞助者时，简直气急败坏、大惊失色；更荒唐的是，章程明明写着“在被请求时提供帮助”，但格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）等人从未主动向这些学者求助，学术界却不依不饶地强行把他们的“指正”硬塞给大众。
- 美国考古学会（SAA）建会初期确立的宗旨包括促进专业学者与民间业余爱好者的合作，并在受邀时提供技术协助。
- 民间独立学者凭借 YouTube 等网络平台的巨额流量和观众赞助（如 Patreon）获得了巨大的商业影响力，加剧了体制化学者的心理失衡。
### [01:23:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5011s) 奈飞公开信事件与“白人至上”的无端扣帽
罗根提到了正规考古学界对格雷厄姆·汉考克主持的 Netflix 纪录片《远古启示录》（Ancient Apocalypse）的攻击，学术界甚至称其为“电视史上最危险的节目之一”。罗根对此感到匪夷所思：探讨史前遗失文明的存在，究竟怎么就成了危害社会的“危险”行为？里士满透露，SAA 曾就该片向 Netflix 写过一封公开抗议信，信中列举了汉考克的三大罪状。令人啼笑皆非的是，专业考古学家列出的首要罪状不是学术事实错误，而是“汉考克在节目中批评了考古学家、不听取考古学家的意见”，学术权威膨胀的虚荣心在信中暴露无遗。
关于另外两项指控，里士满指出，学术界给汉考克扣上了“助长白人至上主义”的帽子，声称汉考克的失落文明假说可以追溯到 1882 年伊格内修斯·唐纳利（Ignatius Donnelly）的亚特兰蒂斯理论。里士满犀利地反驳了这种牵强附会的定罪逻辑：
- **历史人物的真实背景**：伊格内修斯·唐纳利在 19 世纪其实是一位极端的自由派、废奴主义者和女权主义者。尽管按现代标准他无法脱离当时的种族观念局限，但他绝非白人至上主义的宣讲者。
- **选择性历史叙事**：在唐纳利之前的几十年，奥古斯特·勒普隆雄（Augustus Le Plongeon）等学者甚至主张玛雅人才是亚特兰蒂斯人、玛雅文明征服了世界并孕育了全球文化。批评者却故意无视非白人主导的历史假说，蓄意挑选唐纳利来将失落文明论绑定为种族主义产物。
- **神学与种族起源**：唐纳利时代的概念很大程度上源于对《圣经》诺亚三个儿子（闪、含、雅弗）对应三大人种的旧解读，这种“圣经种族观”早已存在上千年。如果真要追究根源，那等于是圣经文本的问题，而非失落文明假说本身具有原罪。
### [01:27:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5238s) 全球巨石遗迹与被低估的史前人类时间线
罗根与里士满达成共识：将遍布全球的失落文明假说强行降维打击为“白人至上主义”，是极其幼稚且不负责任的扣帽子手段。世界上存在的宏伟古迹绝不仅限于欧洲，从黎巴嫩的巴勒贝克（Baalbek）巨石神庙，到中美洲的玛雅金字塔，再到埃及的尼罗河文明，全球各地都留下了无法用现有框架完全解释的工程奇迹。
里士满表示，自己经常亲自在网络上与弗林特·迪布尔（Flint Dibble）等正统学者的拥趸正面交锋。当那些信徒嘲笑问他“你居然相信失落文明？”时，里士满的反击十分简单直接：“难道你认为人类已经把历史上存在过的每一个文明都挖出来了吗？”对方只能被迫承认没有。罗根最后强调，要求找到十万年前完好无损的技术遗物本身就是一种不讲逻辑的刁难，但即便把目光放近，至少距今 12,000 年前的地层中已经明确发现了高度复杂的文明活动痕迹（如哥贝克力石阵），这已经足以彻底掀翻学术界原本死守的人类文明演化时间线。
### [01:28:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5300s) 卡拉汉丘的覆盖工程与猎头采集者假说
两人首先探讨了主流学界对哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）和卡拉汉丘（Karahan Tepe）等巨石遗址的定性问题。主流学界为了省事，至今仍将这些精美复杂的石造结构归功于所谓的“狩猎采集者”。乔·罗根对此提出强烈质疑：如果当时的族群连永久性房屋都不建造，他们究竟是如何造出这些宏伟巨石的？他们使用的工具又是什么？
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 卡拉汉丘与哥贝克力石阵的考古现状争议
accDescr: 展现学界假说与现场保护措施引发的民间研究者质疑流程
subgraph 官方叙事与措施
A["主流学界定性<br/>'狩猎采集者建造'"] --> B["现场加盖遮蔽设施<br/>(宣称保护遗址/旅游)"]
end
subgraph 独立研究者质疑
B --> C["天体考古学家休·纽曼<br/>观测视线受阻与现场封存"]
C --> D["民间研究者质疑动机：<br/>究竟是文物保护还是隐瞒真相？"]
end
```
丹·里士满指出，目前土耳其官方正计划像当初对待哥贝克力石阵那样，为卡拉汉丘也加盖顶棚遮蔽设施。巨石狂热网站（Megalithomania）的创办人、长期研究天体考古学的休·纽曼（Hugh Newman）一直在卡拉汉丘进行详细的天文对齐测量，面对当局封盖遗址的举动，纽曼感到无比沮丧与费解。尽管官方对外宣称加盖是为了“保护遗址免受侵蚀并促进旅游”，但罗根与丹都对这种说辞持怀疑态度：既然这些石雕本身就是坚固的巨石，为何非要以保护之名将其遮蔽？在相对贫困或发展中国家，微薄的资金往往伴随着截然不同的行事优先级，但全面遮盖遗迹的做法难免引发更多猜测。
- 主流学界仍坚持哥贝克力石阵由狩猎采集者建造，却无法合理解释技术手段与居住建筑的缺失。
- 卡拉汉丘正面临与哥贝克力石阵相同的命运：建造大型顶棚遮盖遗址。
- 独立研究者休·纽曼因长期在卡拉汉丘进行天体考古学研究，对遮蔽工程带来的破坏与视线阻碍深感担忧。
---
### [01:29:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5385s) 扎希·哈瓦斯与考古界的“摔角反派”人设
关于遗址遮蔽是否会影响旅游收益，丹·里士满提出了一个独到的观点：埃及前文物部部长扎希·哈瓦斯（Zahi Hawass）在国际舞台上的行事风格，实际上是在刻意扮演职业摔角中的“反派角色”（Heel）。丹引用了“阿拉伯之春”后哈瓦斯的一段公开发言——哈瓦斯直言不讳地表示，埃及不需要随便哪个国家的普通游客，而是需要日、美、中、德等高消费群体；更重要的是，无论埃及局势多么动荡、游客总数暴跌40%，那些沉迷于神秘学与替代历史的“新时代”（New Age）人群依然会源源不断地赶来。
丹认为，哈瓦斯多年来故意在媒体上玩弄“一会儿承认发现了秘密通道，一会儿又严词否认”的把戏，目的就是为了挑起公众的逆反心理：“如果什么都被官方彻底证实或否认，人们就不会好奇；但如果你立起一个傲慢反派的形象，全世界的探寻者就会掏钱飞到埃及，想亲眼看看你到底隐瞒了什么。”丹还提到哥贝克力石阵的现任发掘负责人李·克莱尔（Lee Clare），指责克莱尔在社交平台上同样极具攻击性，整天与独立研究者（如吉米·科塞蒂 Jimmy Corsetti）争吵，这种对抗性营销客观上制造了巨大的话题流量。不过罗根对此持保留意见，他认为丹的“摔角反派理论”有些过于天马行空，哈瓦斯和主流学阀的做法更可能纯粹是为了牢牢把控历史叙事权，甚至掩盖某些见不得光的文物下落。
- 哈瓦斯曾公开表示，即便政局动荡导致旅游业下滑，探寻神秘历史的“新时代”信徒也绝不会停止前往埃及。
- 丹认为哈瓦斯与李·克莱尔等主流学者通过在社交媒体和公众面前树立“隐瞒真相的反派”形象，反向刺激了猎奇旅游。
- 罗根则认为这主要是学阀控制叙事权威的本能，背后往往牵涉到文物遗失或发掘报告前后矛盾的黑幕。
---
### [01:32:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5525s) 失踪的文物、富豪黑市与木乃伊派对
围绕“掩盖真相”的动机，罗根指出最现实的诱因往往是黑市交易与腐败。他提到埃及曾有石棺发掘报告明确记录发现了骨骸，但官方随后却改口宣称石棺内“空无一物”。罗根直言，世界上有大批拥有天文数字财富的顶级富豪，他们愿意不惜一切代价将真正的木乃伊或神秘骨骼摆在自己的私人豪宅里。历史上，维多利亚时代的西方富人就曾风靡举办“木乃伊拆封派对”（Mummy unwrapping parties），甚至将木乃伊磨成粉末服用或用作颜料。
两人随后谈及秘鲁著名的长头骨（Elongated Skulls）。罗根发问：如果有人给你一个没有矢状缝、脑容量巨大且眼眶奇特的真实长头骨，你会把它交给主流博物馆吗？罗根提到了阿拉斯加的淘金者约翰·里夫斯（John Reeves）的遭遇。里夫斯在淘金过程中挖掘出大量史前巨兽骨骼，此前曾有机构（如美国自然历史博物馆）将大量骨骸运走后直接下落不明，甚至传闻被倾倒进港口；因此里夫斯彻底失去了对学术界的信任，自己投资建立了科研建筑，立下规矩：“任何科学家想要研究这些骨头，必须亲自来阿拉斯加，休想带走一件。”
- 历史上埃及石棺内的骨骸曾屡次发生“先宣布发现、后离奇失踪”的诡异事件。
- 从12世纪到19世纪，欧洲上层社会曾长期存在消费、食用木乃伊以及举办木乃伊拆封派对的历史。
- 秘鲁畸形长头骨缺乏矢状缝，具有异常庞大的颅容量，在私人收藏市场极具价值。
- 淘金者约翰·里夫斯因科研机构频繁“遗失”骨骼标本，被迫自建实验室以防止化石外流。
---
### [01:34:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5662s) 巴格达电池的下落与金属分离假说
话题转到了著名的欧帕兹（OOPArt）——巴格达电池（Baghdad Battery）。丹指出，在2000年代初伊拉克战争爆发期间，巴格达电池在混乱中被美军的情报或特工部门（“字母表部门” Alphabet Boys）直接掠走，至今下落不明，很可能如今正静静躺在某个权贵的私人展示架上。
对于巴格达电池的功能，丹提出了一个创新的工业假说：学界长期争论这件陶罐内部缺乏强酸电解液残留，因此否定其为电池；但丹认为它最初的用途根本不是为了发电，而是为了从矿山废水中提纯贵金属。如果在陶罐中注入含有金、银、铜、铁、镍的矿山径流酸性液体，放入铜芯与铁棒，经过微弱的原电池化学反应，铜电极表面就会自然富集并电镀上一层金和银，而杂质则沉淀于罐底。
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 巴格达电池的矿水金属电解分离假说
accDescr: 展示利用矿山径流和原电池原理富集贵金属的过程
subgraph 反应装置
A["陶罐容器<br/>(巴格达电池)"] --- B["矿山酸性径流<br/>(含金/银/铜/铁杂质)"]
B --- C["铁棒与铜管电极"]
end
subgraph 分离结果
C -->|"电化学富集"| D["铜极表面富集<br/>黄金与白银镀层"]
B -->|"重金属杂质"| E["沉渣排空或沉淀<br/>解释内部无残留"]
end
```
丹推测，古人可能偶然将铜币和铁钉掉入矿坑积水中，几天后发现铜币上附着了黄金，从而发明了这种简易的置换装置。古人使用这套容器是为了不断提取沉积物，因此定期清理也合理解释了为何陶罐内部未能检测出长期存放酸液的明显残留。对话最后，两人看着屏幕上一张1875年埃及街头小贩公然叫卖整具木乃伊的历史照片感叹不已。根据《大思想》（Big Think）杂志的文章，由于几个世纪以来对木乃伊的疯狂滥用与倒卖，到了19世纪末，埃及的木乃伊资源甚至一度濒临枯竭。
- 巴格达电池在伊拉克战争初期被神秘机构收缴，目前行踪成谜。
- 丹的假说认为巴格达电池是一种利用原电池反应从矿水中置换、提取金银的冶炼工具。
- 这一假说合理解释了为何器皿内部没有长期储存浓酸的电解质残留，因为反应产物会被定期收割刮取。
- 1875年的历史照片证实，木乃伊曾作为廉价旅游纪念品在埃及街头公开兜售。
### [01:36:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5771s) 药用木乃伊与维多利亚时代的拆解派对
谈话切入了一段令人毛骨悚然的历史：曾经的人们竟将木乃伊视作良药。乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）与丹·理查兹（Dan Richards）浏览着相关的古董与文献，屏幕上甚至展示出古老药房拍卖行（Apothecary Antiques）里的木乃伊制品。理查兹调侃这种药用木乃伊粉末（mummia）就像是“木乃伊汁”，甚至可以“洒在牛排上”。由于当时对木乃伊的需求过于狂热，市场上的真品一度售罄，造假者甚至开始用新鲜尸体伪造木乃伊。更黑暗的是，当时某些医生甚至认为陈年干枯的木乃伊药效不足，坚信新鲜的血肉才具备死者所缺乏的“生命力”。
拿破仑将大量木乃伊带回欧洲后，起初人们还打着医学研究的幌子组织集会，但这种伪装大约只维持了30年，随后便彻底沦为富人炫耀财富的娱乐社交活动。两人在屏幕上阅读了一段记录：1834年，外科医生托马斯·佩蒂格鲁（Thomas Pettigrew）在皇家外科学院公开展开了一具木乃伊。在那个手术与尸检都会公开演示的年代，解剖木乃伊最初是一项医学盛事，但不久后医学外衣被彻底撕下，拆解木乃伊成为一种惊险刺激的表演。富有的晚宴主人若能在宾客面前亲手解开一具木乃伊的绷带，便足以彰显其惊人身家；无论是私人宅邸还是学会剧场，观众们就着烈酒，在干瘪的血肉与白骨显露时爆发出狂热的欢呼。
- 1834年，托马斯·佩蒂格鲁在英国皇家外科学院公开展开木乃伊，开启了这股社会风潮。
- 维多利亚时代的上流社会举办“木乃伊拆解派对”（mummy unwrapping parties），以此作为炫富与取悦宾客的终极娱乐手段。
---
### [01:38:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5884s) 法老的诅咒与数十亿美元的黑市走私
随着图坦卡蒙陵墓的发掘以及卡纳冯勋爵（Lord Carnarvon）等人的离奇暴毙，“法老的诅咒”在民间传得沸沸扬扬。罗根直言，刨人祖坟甚至把死人吃进肚子里，难怪人们会联想到诅咒；而在他看来，诅咒往往在人们深信不疑时才会真正起效，就像伏都教（Voodoo）的巫术一样，心理暗示具有致命的杀伤力。
屏幕上的最新数据显示，如今全球包括木乃伊在内的文物走私黑市年交易额高达约30亿美元。罗根与理查兹对此惊叹不已，认为这些本该陈列在博物馆中的瑰宝被极度富有且疯狂的私人藏家瓜分。富豪们往往渴望独占他人无法企及的稀世珍宝，这与黑市上狂热追逐非法犀牛角茶的心态如出一辙。
- 全球古董及木乃伊走私黑市规模每年预估达到30亿美元。
- 极度富有的私人藏家出于猎奇与炫耀心理，成为推动地下文物非法交易的核心买家。
---
### [01:39:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=5969s) 洛克菲勒考古博物馆与神秘的铜卷轴宝藏图
话题随后转向了耶路撒冷的洛克菲勒考古博物馆（Rockefeller Archaeological Museum）。理查兹提及，该博物馆收藏了约6万件跨越200万年历史的文物，其中包括一具据称有10万年历史、保存几乎完整的古人类骨架，以及一具曾被传为“诺亚”的6500年前的人类骨骸。此外，著名的《死海古卷》（Dead Sea Scrolls）在以色列正式建国并迁入新馆之前，也曾长期存放于此。
理查兹特别提到了《死海古卷》中极具传奇色彩的“铜卷轴”（The Copper Scroll）。该卷轴出土于3号洞穴，不同于其他写在羊皮纸上的文学或宗教文献，它是用含有约1%锡的青铜薄片制成的。经历了数千年的氧化，金属早已脆化成氧化物。最惊人的是，这并非叙事文本，而是一张货真价实的“宝藏图”——上面详尽列出了64处埋藏金银财宝的具体地点。罗根惊呼，在那个铜本身就极其珍贵的年代，竟然有人把藏宝图刻在铜片上。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 铜卷轴与其他死海古卷对比
accDescr: 对比展示死海古卷中普通羊皮纸卷轴与3号洞穴出土铜卷轴的材质与内容差异
subgraph Normal["常规死海古卷"]
A["材质: 羊皮纸 / 莎草纸"]
B["内容: 宗教经文与文学典籍"]
end
subgraph Copper["3号洞穴: 铜卷轴"]
C["材质: 约99%铜 + 1%锡 (已氧化)"]
D["内容: 64处埋藏金银的宝藏地图"]
end
Normal -.->|"对比"| Copper
```
- 洛克菲勒博物馆藏有6万件文物，包括10万年前的几乎完整骨骼和6500年前的人类遗骸。
- 铜卷轴出土于死海附近的3号洞穴，现存约旦安曼的约旦博物馆，记录了64处隐秘的金银埋藏地点。
---
### [01:41:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6073s) 地球肚脐与复活节岛的失落文明
两人感叹地球上还有太多被历史掩埋的秘密，比如撒哈拉以南非洲在远古曾是生机盎然的绿洲，地下不知埋藏着多少未知的文明。理查兹顺着这个思路提出，许多古文明中都存在“世界之脐”（Navel of the World）的概念——类似于北欧神话中连接九界的世界之树（Yggdrasil），是连接地下、人间与天界的枢纽。在古代社会，这种“脐带”往往是文明的中心，例如库斯科的印加圣地、耶路撒冷的哭墙以及德尔斐的阿波罗神谕所。
然而，波利尼西亚帝国的世界之脐却偏偏坐落在看似与世隔绝的复活节岛（Easter Island）。理查兹分析，如果倒回冰河期海平面极低的时期，复活节岛的面积不仅远大于现在，而且它只是一连串群岛中的一座，彼时它恰好就处于整个帝国的核心枢纽位置。理查兹认为，相比于被盗掘无数次的罗马和埃及，复活节岛由于被发掘的程度较低，地底下极可能埋藏着颠覆认知的重大考古发现。
- “世界之脐”概念广泛存在于古代核心圣地：耶路撒冷（哭墙）、德尔斐（阿波罗神谕）及库斯科。
- 在远古海平面较低时期，复活节岛是一连串相连岛屿的中心枢纽，而非孤悬海外的荒岛。
---
### [01:42:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6172s) 科学极化、贩毒集团插手与地下文物黑市
理查兹随后表达了对当下学术环境的失望。他指出，现代社会无论是医学还是考古学，都陷入了严重的阵营极化之中。就像秘鲁发现的三指干尸（tridactyl mummies）一样，消息刚公布两天就会被媒体推上风口浪尖，公众和学者根据立场站队，任何人都能找到符合自己观点的“有资质学者”来为之背书。
罗根提到一位朋友讲述的南美现状：墨西哥与南美贩毒集团（cartels）盯上了这块每年价值30亿美元的文物黑市肥肉，开始武装控制考古遗址并倒卖珍宝。理查兹补充道，探险研究者卢克·考文斯（Luke Caverns）在南美考察时就曾亲眼见过荷枪实弹的武装人员把守遗址入口，禁止外人靠近。一旦文物落入黑市，其宝贵的地层背景和考古上下文（context）就会彻底丧失。罗根调侃，真不知那些三指干尸是怎么逃过黑市走私的，要是能花钱买一具摆在播客演播室的桌子上肯定极酷。两人最后谈及古代手抄本（codices）的流转，墨西哥政府曾仅以25万美元就买下了某些珍贵抄本；尽管在普通人看来这已是一笔巨款，但若流入私人地下拍卖市场，其价值本可飙升至数百万美元。
- 贩毒集团介入南美文物走私，派遣武装人员封锁古遗址并盗卖文物，导致大量考古上下文遭到不可逆的破坏。
- 极化现象席卷科学与考古界，学者与舆论往往因预设立场而严重撕裂。
### [01:44:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6278s) 古代文物的流转与黑市强占的隐秘历史
对话在讨论文物来源时展开。有人提到某些家族代代相传持有某些珍贵古物长达500年，但最终不得不脱手。Dan Richards与Joe Rogan推测，背后的交易可能充满强取豪夺和恐吓手段，就像黑帮收保护费一样：“你要么拿钱走人，要么脑袋挨棍子。”这种对古代历史的粗暴掠夺与毁灭，让人不禁联想到历史上数不尽的文化浩劫，例如亚历山大图书馆的大火以及前哥伦布时期中美洲各类手抄本（Codex）被殖民者大量焚毁的惨剧。
随即，Jamie在屏幕上调出一个专门出售古代秘鲁艺术品与文物的在线交易网站。面对琳琅满目的古代文物，Joe Rogan提出了最核心的疑问：买家如何确定这些文物的真伪？市面上充斥着大量做工逼真的仿造品。随后他们注意到一件标价4,850美元（一说3,500美元）的面具，其出处（provenance）记载由一位考古学家于1938年获得。Joe打趣说如果自己花近五千美元买个面具，最好能“开着它到处兜风，或者至少能拿它抽口大麻”，引得大家发笑。
### [01:45:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6344s) 文物出处法则与青铜眼镜蛇的买卖
屏幕上展示了一件古埃及青铜眼镜蛇雕像（Egyptian bronze cobra），售价仅为2,000美元，甚至可以直接“点击加入购物车”。根据出处说明，这件文物制作于公元前664年至公元前30年之间，原先属于纽约市一位私人埃及学学者的旧藏。Joe感慨，作为一件拥有两千多年历史的古埃及真品，两千美元的价格出奇地便宜。
Dan与Joe进一步探讨了文物的合法交易规则。文物买卖的核心在于“出处链条”（Provenance）。如果一件文物的合法流转记录能够追溯到特定法律禁令生效之前，它就可以在公开市场上合法交易。这种监管机制与美国针对特定攻击性武器的禁售条款、或是针对禁止象牙交易前的“预禁令象牙”（pre-ban ivory）的豁免规则如出一辙：法律不会突袭抄家没收洛克菲勒等老钱家族书架上的藏品，但此后任何人都不允许再走私非法出土的新文物。
- 埃及青铜眼镜蛇雕塑断代：公元前664年 — 公元前30年（托勒密王朝及晚期埃及时代）
- 售价：约 2,000 美元
- 交易准则核心：必须具备在特定禁令年份之前合法获得的完整传承记录（Provenance）
### [01:47:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6423s) 89%含金量的站立萨满金人像
浏览过程中，一件标价显示“询价”（Price on Request，曾提及6.7万美元）的带翼神明黄金吊坠吸引了全场目光。屏幕上展示的是一件“站立萨满黄金雕像”（Gold Standing Shaman）。根据鉴定数据，该神像由高达89%的黄金制成，内里中空——如果不做成空心，整座实心金像将重达上百磅。神像工艺精湛绝伦，头顶盘踞着一只猴子，身侧还雕刻着另外两只。
仔细端详神像正面，众人发现了更多诡异而震撼的细节：萨满神像长着七到八根手指，手里捧着宛如杯子、实则酷似斩下的人头或战利品头颅的器皿。根据资料，该神像重约148克（大家戏称这是在用“称大麻的算法”算重量，折大约不到三分之一磅），推测制作年份介于公元500年至1580年之间。Joe看着这尊金光闪闪、面相奇特的人形雕像，直言这造型简直就是“吸了三口DMT（致幻剂）后在迷幻维度见到的实体”。Dan则笑着吐槽说，现代人有时太喜欢过度解读古人的符号学，也许当年制作它的人只是觉得这样设计“很酷”，就像现代人衣服上的腰带扣，或者得克萨斯大学球赛上大家比出的牛角手势一样，纯粹是一种流行标志或吉祥物。
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 文物合法交易与萨满金像特征流转
accDescr: 展示古代黄金萨满文物的材质结构、文化象征与视觉特征
subgraph Artifact["金萨满雕像核心特征"]
direction TB
A["89% 纯金铸造 (空心结构)"] --> B["重约 148 克"]
B --> C["断代: 公元500-1580年"]
end
subgraph VisualElements["视觉与神秘学细节"]
direction TB
D["头顶与身侧的猴形神兽"]
E["双手各持人头/祭祀器皿"]
F["单手拥有 7 至 8 根异化手指"]
end
Artifact --> VisualElements
```
### [01:50:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6640s) 帕拉卡斯先民的超前纺织工艺与古代跨洋航海
Dan Richards指出，在所有的古代遗迹中，有太多线索直指南美洲，尤其是秘鲁。无论是具有怪异几何咬合的巨石建筑，还是拉长的畸形头骨，抑或是只有从空中才能俯瞰全貌的纳斯卡地画，都让人不得不质疑正统历史学对南美先民生产力水平的低估。随后，他们查看了秘鲁帕拉卡斯文化（Paracas culture）的古老纺织品。
Jamie调出了一幅距今约两千年的帕拉卡斯黄色织锦照片。织物上绣着精巧绝伦的小人图样，羽毛头饰整齐地朝向一侧，宛如正在动态起舞。即使历经两千年风霜，织物的色彩与细节依然令人叹为观止。更让人惊奇的是，画中人物鼻子处缠绕着怪异的装饰物，从中甚至延伸出微小的人脸，充满了极其浓烈甚至带有“Bad Trip（致幻恐慌）”色彩的迷幻艺术气息。Dan强调，创造出这种超越时代的精美纺织品的族群，正是那些熟练实施环锯术（开颅手术）、在地面雕刻巨幅图腾、改造头骨的同批人群。
此外，Dan提到了著名的帕拉卡斯烛台（Paracas Candelabra）地画，该地画巨大到在距海岸线12英里的海面上依然清晰可见，俨然是给古代航海者指引方向的地标灯塔。近年来复活节岛与秘鲁之间的双向基因流动（Genetic drift）证据进一步坐实：早在正统历史记载之前，波利尼西亚人与南美先民便已跨越大洋展开了往来与交流。
### [01:53:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6794s) 头骨变形、基因融合与新仙女木期后的文明幸存
丹·理查兹（Dan Richards）与乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）从秘鲁帕拉卡斯（Paracas）的基因线索展开讨论。理查兹认为，当地发现的各种族群特征正是基因交融的明证，犹如某种文化的汇聚点。尤其是在头骨后部的遗传畸形上，他视其为无可辩驳的“确凿证据（smoking gun）”。理查兹推测，远古时期存在着某种演化军备竞赛：当智人（*Homo sapiens*）与脑容量更大、后脑勺更发达的古人类谱系开始混血时，结合了双方智力、视觉或听觉优势的新族群脱颖而出，而其他未能融合的谱系则在数千年内被淘汰。全球各地之所以出现拉长头骨的现象，很可能就是早期混血后为了适应大脑生理结构而产生的必须手段，而帕拉卡斯只是坚持保留这种习俗的最后据点之一。
罗根指出，目前已知最古老的拉长头骨可追溯至公元前 10,000 年左右（例如在中国发现的样本），这一时间点正好卡在新仙女木期（Younger Dryas）撞击事件之后。两人探讨道，如果当时发生了一场摧毁大半人类文明的全球灾难，究竟有多少文明残存了下来？从大型动物群的灭绝分布来看，北美洲、欧洲和亚洲部分地区受创最重，而南美洲受到的冲击相对较轻，非洲更是几乎未受波及。这引发了一个耐人寻味的假说：南美洲是否曾是幸存高等文明最后保留的孤岛，但这些建立巨石建筑的高度发达社会最终究竟为何湮灭？理查兹认为，很多时候这纯粹是漫长时间与自然演化磨灭的结果。
- 已知最早的拉长头骨出土于中国等地，年代约在公元前 10,000 年，紧随新仙女木期灾难之后。
- 南美洲与非洲在第四纪灭绝事件中受创相对较轻，可能保留了更多灾变前的人口与知识传承。
---
### [01:55:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=6946s) 印加环锯术与头骨形变的消亡之谜
谈及古代医学技术，理查兹提到一个惊人的事实：印加人在头骨环锯术（trepanation）上的技术极其精湛，直到西班牙殖民者到来前，他们的手术存活率竟高达约 80%。相比之下，几百年后美国内战时期的军医进行类似颅骨开洞手术时，存活率仅有可怜的 40% 左右，技术水平还不到印加人的一半。罗根询问古代人为何要冒死在头上钻洞，理查兹解释其主要目的是“释放颅内压力”。无论是为了缓解严重的脑部压迫性头痛，还是在受到钝器重击、类似内战时期火枪弹丸造成脑水肿后，环锯术都是降压救命的关键手段。
对于罗根提出的疑问——“为什么今天的秘鲁人没有这种巨大的拉长头骨？”，理查兹半开玩笑地指出现在人工束颅是违法的，但更核心的原因在于基因演化。如果过去存在某种自然的颅骨畸形（例如当今仍存在的基亚里畸形 / Chiari malformation），极度严重的变异往往难以存活；随着时间推移，基因库逐渐向更小、更协调的颅骨形态演化，极端的头部构造便自然消亡。此外，部落与氏族间的血腥战争也加速了某些特殊族群的灭亡。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 印加环锯术与现代内战医学存活率对比
accDescr: 对比印加文明与美国内战军医在头骨环锯术上的存活率及核心医疗目的
subgraph MedicalComparison["环锯术 (Trepanation) 存活率对比"]
A["印加帝国时期"] -->|"存活率约 80%"| B["高超的开颅与降压技术"]
C["美国内战时期军医"] -->|"存活率仅约 40%"| D["应对火枪伤及脑水肿但感染率高"]
end
subgraph HeadDeformation["头骨异化消亡原因"]
E["基亚里畸形等生理压迫"] --> G["极端变异自然淘汰"]
F["人工束颅习俗逐渐违法废止"] --> G
H["古代氏族战争冲突"] --> G
end
```
- 印加文明的环锯手术存活率高达约 80%，远超美国内战军医的 40%。
- 头颅开孔主要用于钝伤、水肿或严重颅内压升高时的紧急降压。
- 现代医学中通过 CT 扫描仍能诊断出类似的基亚里畸形，证明部分后脑结构问题并非远古特有，而是生理演化持续面对的挑战。
---
### [01:57:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7076s) 吉拉悬崖民居与考古文献的大规模涂黑之谜
理查兹随后将话题引向北美洲的悬崖民居（cliff dwellings）。大约 1,000 年前，美洲西南部的原住民突然放弃平原生活，躲进悬崖深处居住了约一个世纪，随后又匆匆离开。原本数千人的大型部落分裂成只有几十到几百人的微小群体（例如吉拉悬崖民居 / Gila Cliff Dwellings 当时仅居住了大约 60 人）。理查兹与罗根一致认为，这种极端的居住形态几乎必然是由惨烈的突袭与全面战争所迫，小群体只能借险要地势求生。
理查兹分享了他近期开车穿越新墨西哥州与得克萨斯州油田、实地走访吉拉悬崖民居后的离奇发现。当他查阅相关同行评审的考古学发掘报告以制作视频时，惊讶地发现报告中对出土文物的记录遭到了极其严格的涂黑审查（redaction），“看起来就像在读爱泼斯坦案（Epstein list）的往来邮件，全是黑条、黑条、黑条”。官方通常给出的解释是为了防止盗墓者根据报告定位遗址去非法盗掘，但理查兹指出这一说法漏洞百出：报告中明确注明“未曾发掘且极可能有文物”的地点名字完全公开，反而那些已经发掘完毕并带走的文物描述、出土地点以及负责人员的名字却被大面积涂黑。这种反常的隐瞒引发了人们对是否存在“欧帕兹”（OOPArt，时代错误遗物，例如前哥伦布时期本不该存在的精炼铁器等先进造物）或官方刻意掩盖历史真相的合理质疑。
- 约 1,000 年前北美西南部原住民由数千人的社群碎裂为数十人的悬崖小聚落，吉拉悬崖民居常住人口仅约 60 人，显示当时存在严酷的战争威胁。
- 吉拉悬崖民居的官方考古报告充斥类似敏感机密文件的大面积涂黑遮盖。
- 官方以“防范盗墓”为由进行保密，却公开了未发掘遗址的位置，反而隐匿了已出土文物的真实信息，逻辑自相矛盾。
### [02:01:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7289s) 报告涂黑背后的世俗动机与历史信息的系统性消失
Joe Rogan 与 Dan Richards 探讨了官方报告中涂黑信息的可能原因。除了隐藏那些颠覆传统认知、不合时宜的文物（out-of-place artifacts）之外，Dan Richards 提出了一个极其世俗且符合人性的解释：利益驱动的盗卖。发掘者发现极具价值的精美古物后，为了私下卖给像洛克菲勒（Rockefeller）这样的超级富豪，只需将档案中的记录涂黑抹去，便无需向公众交代其去向。这种涉及金钱的解释非常符合现实逻辑。
Dan Richards 指出，不仅是西南部的吉拉崖居（Gila Cliff Dwellings）存在这种现象，整个西南部多处遗址都有类似痕迹。谈及“高层掩盖真相”（top-down cover up），Dan 坦言自己过去极度反感这种阴谋论观点，但近年来关于细长头骨（elongated skulls）的研究彻底动摇了他的看法。他发现相关数据与历史记录正在不可思议地“蒸发”：他在视频中引用的参考链接，往往过两周就彻底失效消失；谷歌搜索南太平洋纽埃岛（Niue）的细长头骨时，搜索结果断然宣称这从未发生，然而翻阅历史档案却能找到早期探险队记录的丰富资料。历史地图在一百年间不断篡改，信息变得难以获取，这让他深感某些事实正被刻意掩盖。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 文物涂黑与历史信息消失机制
accDescr: 展示学术档案涂黑的潜在世俗动机与数字信息随时间消失的闭环
subgraph S1["世俗利益动机"]
A["发掘出非凡古物"] --> B["私下倒卖给富商 (如洛克菲勒)"]
B --> C["官方档案涂黑关键条目"]
C --> D["免除追踪与交代去向"]
end
subgraph S2["信息蒸发与叙事控制"]
E["早期探险实录 (如纽埃岛头骨)"] --> F["现代主流搜索抹杀/否认"]
G["学术视频引用链接"] --> H["两周内失效被删"]
end
```
---
### [02:03:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7384s) 科学认知偏见：从渐变论、灾变论到人类基因工程假设
Dan 探讨了信息被掩盖的深层心理机制。科学界的叙事往往受到主流意识形态或宗教信念的束缚。在早期，科学界为了迎合《圣经》叙事（如全球大洪水、耶利哥城墙倒塌），偏向于灾变论；后来演化论与地质学兴起，科学界走向另一极端，将极度缓慢的“渐变论”（gradualism）奉为唯一真理。直到1980年发现墨西哥希克苏鲁伯（Chicxulub）白垩纪-古近纪（K-T）撞击坑，科学界才终于承认了五岁小孩都能看明白的常识：事物有时演化缓慢，有时则经历突发剧烈的灾难，最终融合为“间断平衡”（punctuated equilibrium）。这种根深蒂固的思想束缚耗费了学界整整一百年。
Joe Rogan 随即联想到近年来不明异常现象（UAP）圈子中的诡异传闻：有消息称军方或政府人员曾与基督教牧师举行秘密会议，警告称即将到来的“真相大白”（disclosure）将严重冲击信徒的信仰。外界推测，该真相可能是指人类并非自然演化而来，而是被地外文明进行过基因工程改造，甚至连各大宗教本身都是外星生命为了安抚人类、维持社会秩序而创造的产物。Dan Richards 认为，宗教是外星人创造的说法略显荒谬，但外星智慧干预人类基因的可能性并不离谱——人类如果探索外星球发现类人猿，也会尝试基因编辑；正如人类繁育动物、甚至尝试复活恐狼（dire wolf）一样，高等智慧生命完全可能通过干预基因，直接为原始物种跳过上亿年的缓慢演化历程。
- **科学观念演化历史**：科学界在灾变论与渐变论之间拉扯了一个世纪，直到 1980 年希克苏鲁伯陨石坑被确认，才正式确立包含灾变突变与缓慢积累的综合认知框架。
- **异类文献与神话映照**：包括撒迦利亚·西琴（Zecharia Sitchin）的阿努纳奇叙事与伪经《以诺书》（Book of Enoch），均记载了高等生命出于特定目的操纵人类的远古传说。
---
### [02:06:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7594s) 奥卡姆剃刀法则与大金字塔的工程学谜团
面对古代外星人假说，Dan Richards 强调自己虽然经常与该领域的代表人物（如 David Childress）交流，但始终恪守奥卡姆剃刀原则（Occam's razor）。他举例说明：如果进洗手间出来后发现钱包丢失，你可以假设是狗叼走了，也可以假设是外星人瞬移偷走了，但最合理的推断显然是屋里的同伴顺手牵羊。外星人假说必须是穷尽世俗常理后的最后选项，哪怕是像“化工厂假说”（Land of Chem）这样推测金字塔是外星前哨化学提纯工厂的理论，也必须有扎实的证据链支撑。
然而，Joe Rogan 指出，大金字塔最令人困惑的本质在于它本身的存在：建造于至少4500年前，体量极其庞大，融合了极其高深的几何学、宏观规划与施工技术，现代人甚至无法确定古人是如何完成的。主流考古界根据古希腊历史学家希罗多德（Herodotus）的部分记载，认定大金字塔是在法老胡夫统治的短短 28 年内建造完成的。Dan Richards 对此嗤之以鼻，讽刺现代考古学家根本没有实际动手干过建筑工程：
> “我常对很多考古学家说：你们为什么不先去自家后院，用空心砖砌一个生火的炉坑，砌完了再回头跟我聊‘28年建成’？你们这帮人连个工具带都没系过，张嘴就来！”
大金字塔由数百万块巨石堆叠而成，在古代条件下仅凭人力在不到三十年内开采、加工、精准对齐并吊装，在工程逻辑上存在无法逾越的矛盾。随后，话题转向了中国南京的阳山碑材（Yangshan Quarry）。这座在明代（约14世纪）被遗弃的巨石开采遗址留下了数万吨未完工的石构件，其表面呈现出与世界多处巨石遗迹高度相似的神秘凸起（nubs）。
### [02:10:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7805s) 巨石凸起与采石场未解之谜
乔·罗根与丹·里查兹继续深入探讨全球巨石遗迹中普遍存在的神秘凸起（nubs）。里查兹提到，主流观点认为工匠在最初开采和雕刻石块时显然有一套周密的规划，这些凸起是特意保留下来的；然而工程随后又被遗弃，主流给出的解释是工匠发现石料开采得太大而无法搬运。这在逻辑上显得极为矛盾——一方面肯定了他们拥有高超的统筹规划能力，另一方面又断言他们犯了如此低级的规划失误。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 巨石开采主流假说的逻辑矛盾
accDescr: 展示主流考古假说中关于巨石凸起与遗弃原因存在的内在逻辑冲突
subgraph MainstreamHypothesis["主流假说的矛盾逻辑"]
A["巨石上雕刻凸起 (nubs)"] --> B["假说推论：工匠有精密搬运计划"]
B --> C["石料被就地遗弃未搬运"]
C --> D["假说推论：工匠误将石料造得过大"]
end
D -.->|"逻辑冲突：既精明又拙劣"| B
```
围绕这些凸起是否用于起吊和操纵石块，两人审视了采石场的具体结构。罗根指出，画面中的巨石看似直接雕刻在基岩之中，从未被移动过。里查兹证实了这一点，说明该地点是一处采石场，某些部分确实有巨石被移走，但眼前的石块被留在了原地。罗根观察到两块巨石之间切出的巨大缝隙，惊叹于古人是如何从那道狭缝中取出一整块独立巨石并运往别处的，更不必说动工的时间、背后的建造者以及所使用的工具。里查兹反问道，为什么主流学界总是急于消解和抹杀古代建筑所蕴含的神秘色彩，因为那体量庞大、平整切割的石板本身就足以令人叹为观止。
- 巨石上的凸起（nubs）遍布世界各地的古代遗迹，至今功能不明。
- 采石场遗迹显示，古人能从基岩极其狭窄的缝隙中精确切割并移除数吨重的整块石料。
- 讨论中提及中国也存在类似悬浮感或基岩切割的巨石结构，下方仅存微量水流，形似天然堡垒。
---
### [02:12:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=7932s) 人工颅骨畸形：巫术防御还是时尚风潮？
话题随后转向长头骨（elongated skulls）现象。罗根提到在法国，直到第一次世界大战前夕仍存在人为束头的习俗。对于束头的原因，外界解释各异：一部分被归结为时尚，另一部分则是因为婴儿帽绑扎方式所致。罗根提出了一种更古老的可能动机——保护婴儿免受恶灵侵扰。由于当时婴儿夭折率极高，父母深信如果不把头紧紧缠住，邪灵就会钻入婴儿体内致其死亡，过度绑缚最终导致了头骨的严重变形，甚至令婴儿眼球凸出。
里查兹与罗根进一步讨论了颅骨容量问题。关于束头是否真的增加了脑容量，学界与民间研究者各执一词。里查兹无奈地表示，如今的考古探讨陷入了“挑选你喜欢的专家”的困境：有的研究声称长头骨容量大于常人，有的则坚决否认，而在普通人无法亲自测量标本的情况下，真相完全沦为了主观立场的选择。罗根感叹秘鲁的古代社会尤为诡异神秘，无论是长头骨还是只能从空中俯瞰的纳斯卡线条，都让人不禁深思那片土地上的古代人究竟生活在怎样的现实与认知体系中。
- 法国图卢兹等地的人工颅骨畸形现象一直持续到20世纪初（一战时期）。
- 束头行为的动机可能涵盖多维层面：传统时尚、防磕碰保护以及抵御恶灵侵入的古老巫术信念。
- 秘鲁纳斯卡线条与长头骨共同构成了令现代人费解的奇特古代社会图景。
---
### [02:14:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8062s) 棺材山与华盛顿州长景市的共济会金字塔规划
里查兹将视线转至美国太平洋西北地区，分享了有关华盛顿州棺材山（Mount Coffin）的离奇历史。棺材山原本是一处玄武岩地质构造，曾发现过约3000具美洲原住民的墓葬，且岩石外观明显带有经过人工修整的痕迹。20世纪初，波特兰星级水泥与碎石公司（Portland Star and Cement Company）收购了棺材山，尽管美国革命女儿会（DAR）等组织曾试图收购保护，但整座山最终仍被彻底开采夷平，当地盛传开采过程中挖掘出了大量秘宝。
更为诡异的是木业大亨罗伯特·A·朗（R. A. Long）。他在当地兴建了完全规划的城镇长景市（Longview）。里查兹指出，朗是一名高阶共济会成员，他将长景市的城市平面图设计成了一座巨大的金字塔形状，甚至包含了从金字塔核心射出的辐射焦点星线。不仅如此，朗在棺材山被炸平后，买下了整座原住民圣山磨碎的玄武岩砾石，将其全部用于铺设长景市金字塔中轴的四条主要核心弧形干道。
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 棺材山玄武岩开采与长景市建设流程
accDescr: 展示原住民圣山棺材山被开采后碎石被用于铺设长景市金字塔道路的过程
subgraph CoffinMountain["圣地棺材山 (Mount Coffin)"]
M1["玄武岩山体及3000具原住民墓葬"] --> M2["碎石公司采掘夷平"]
end
subgraph LongviewCity["长景市 (Longview, WA)"]
L1["木业大亨 R.A. Long 总体规划"] --> L2["共济会金字塔形城市路网"]
M2 -->|"碎石作为铺路材料"| L3["铺设四条核心金字塔放射干道"]
end
```
在城市的中心，立有一座朗本人的雕像，雕像中一名少女向他献上第13朵玫瑰（手中握着一打玫瑰，送出第13朵），暗含典型的共济会象征主义。该雕像最初正对旭日升起的方向，但后来的市政建设逐渐拆改了当年的金字塔线条，并移动了雕像朝向。罗根调侃朗的行为是用原住民的圣地碎石铺路来窃取他们的气运（mojo），而如今的市政规划又在反过来瓦解朗的气运。里查兹借用霍华德·菲利普·洛夫克拉夫特（H.P. Lovecraft）的名言作结：“我不必相信圣诞老人真实存在，也能知道人们会在12月25日互相赠送礼物。”即便不迷信超自然力量，人们也必须正视这些权贵为了古老信仰与象征符号而付诸的真实行动。
- 华盛顿州棺材山（Mount Coffin）曾拥有约3000具原住民葬礼遗存，后被采石公司彻底挖平。
- 木业巨头 R. A. 朗将长景市设计为金字塔形制，并以棺材山的碎石铺设主要道路。
- 朗的雕像包含“手持12朵玫瑰、递上第13朵”的共济会隐喻，雕像原设定为面向日出。
### [02:18:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8318s) 细长头骨的数学逻辑与大峡谷金凯德洞穴之谜
Dan Richards 谈到古代细长头骨（elongated skulls）的大量集中现象。他认为这在逻辑上非常清晰：在当地，死后能被埋葬在此处的必须是贵族，而要成为贵族就必须接受头骨形变；考古报告中记录了大约 3,000 座墓葬，相应地就发现了大约 3,000 具细长头骨，这只是简单的数学逻辑。然而，主流考古学家却坚决不承认存在任何特殊之处，甚至声称“Dan 完全不知道自己在胡扯什么”。
随后，Joe Rogan 将话题转向大峡谷的传说，询问 Dan 对大峡谷神秘遗迹的看法，尤其是著名的“金凯德洞穴”（Kincaid's Cave）。Dan 坦言自己的态度在近两年发生了转变，以前他会觉得那些传闻大概只是印第安原住民的普通遗迹，但现在他觉得大峡谷非常诡异。他甚至在之前的巡回演讲“追寻远古文明”（Quest for Ancient Civilizations）中开玩笑说，下次要是再发生类似“9/11”的大事件、联邦各情报局（“alphabet boys”）全往东海岸跑的时候，他就直接冲进大峡谷一探究竟。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 大峡谷金凯德洞穴传闻演变流程图
accDescr: 展示1909年亚利桑那公报报道的大峡谷地下城传闻及其被主流定性与争议的流转过程。
subgraph 传闻起源["1909年 报纸报道"]
A["探险家 G.E. Kincaid<br/>沿科罗拉多河漂流"] --> B["宣称发现极难接近的<br/>悬崖洞穴城堡"]
B --> C["报道称史密森学会<br/>S.A. Jordan 教授介入调查"]
end
subgraph 报道核心内容["地下遗迹特征"]
C --> D1["数百个房间、容纳多达5万人"]
C --> D2["木乃伊墓穴、铜器与金器"]
C --> D3["象形文字与类佛像雕塑"]
end
subgraph 现代争议与封锁["现状与主流判定"]
D1 & D2 & D3 --> E["主流定性：早期新闻恶作剧（Hoax）<br/>无实物、无档案、无照片"]
E --> F["现实封锁：官方以危险或<br/>印第安圣地为由设立禁区"]
F --> G{"民间质疑：<br/>若纯属虚构，为何动用管制手段？"}
end
```
- **贵族埋葬与头骨比例**：报道中记录的 3,000 处墓葬与 3,000 具变形头骨高度对应，Dan 强调这在数量关系上极为明确。
- **大峡谷禁区争议**：目前大峡谷部分区域被严格封锁，官方给出的理由包括“地形过于危险”或“属于印第安人圣地”。
- **双重标准质疑**：Joe 与 Dan 讽刺官方对“原住民圣地”的态度反复无常——以往开发时从未尊重过原住民，拉什莫尔山（Mount Rushmore）就是典型例子，如今却突然以圣地为由设立重度禁区。
---
### [02:20:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8430s) 1909 年史密森学会考察报道与辟谣争议
两人翻查大峡谷地下城故事的历史渊源。1909 年，《亚利桑那公报》（The Arizona Gazette）刊登了一篇轰动一时的报道。探险家 G. E. Kincaid 宣称自己沿着科罗拉多河从怀俄明州绿河漂流到尤马期间，在峡谷深处发现了一座巨大的地下城堡。报道更称史密森学会（Smithsonian）的 S. A. Jordan 教授带队介入，地下城内包含数百间房间、粮仓、墓穴木乃伊、铜制与金制器皿、神秘象形文字以及一座类似佛像的神像，甚至能容纳多达 50,000 人居住，居民可能来自埃及或东方。
如今该报道被主流学界普遍定性为当时的“报纸恶作剧”（period tall tale）。Dan 对专业辟谣者 Jason Colavito 表达了强烈不屑，称其为“双面人”，并指出如果让 Graham Hancock 列出排名前十的死对头，Jason 绝对榜上有名。Joe 则从常理提出疑问：如果真的有人发现了能容纳 5 万人的巨大地下溶洞以及埃及文物，发现者难道不想因此成名吗？主流考古学家难道不想争抢这个名垂青史的重大发现吗？
- **1909 年 3 月至 4 月的报道演变**：早期报道仅为个人见闻，随后迅速演变成史密森学会主导的庞大地下城探险。
- **档案缺失**：史密森学会的官方档案中没有任何名为 S. A. Jordan 的探险记录，也没有任何相关的出土文物、田野笔记、照片或同行评议报告。
- **无人机探测的建议**：Dan 认为解决质疑非常简单，只需派遣带有无人机的原住民考古团队进入禁区实地探查并公开画面，即可彻底终结阴谋论。
---
### [02:23:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8623s) 学术机制打压与大峡谷军事管制猜想
针对 Joe 提出的“为何不公开以求成名”，Dan 解释了主流考古学界的生存困境。考古学家的饭碗依赖体制和“正规渠道”，一旦触碰颠覆性证据就会遭到严厉清算。Dan 举例称，当自己指责 Flint（Dibble）说谎后，对方立刻发起舆论围剿，把他与 19 世纪神智学创始人布拉瓦茨基夫人（Madame Blavatsky）归为同类，贴上“伪科学”的标签。Dan 提到一位曾和他探讨冰河时代冶金证据的冰芯专家，在遭到 Flint 施压后被迫撤回言论。维基百科上甚至公开记录着：过去任何提出美洲定居时间早于主流共识的学者，其学术生涯都会被同行摧毁。
不过 Joe 依然对大峡谷的“官方掩盖”保持怀疑，认为单纯为了掩盖考古发现，不至于惊动五角大楼派出黑鹰直升机在大峡谷上空巡逻驱赶徒步者。Dan 赞同大峡谷深处肯定有东西，哪怕仅仅是一个秘密军事基地。
- **学术恐吓机制**：偏离既定叙事的学者面临失去终身教职或科研资金的实质风险。
- **布拉瓦茨基夫人（Madame Blavatsky）的比喻**：指主流学术界喜欢将质疑者与 19 世纪降神会、通灵术风潮中的神秘主义骗子相提并论，借此破坏对方的公信力。
- **空域与地面封锁**：传闻中有黑鹰直升机在大峡谷禁飞/限制区域巡视，阻止游客攀登深入。
---
### [02:25:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8733s) 塞多纳的神秘体验与“能量漩涡”闹剧
话题延伸至亚利桑那州的另一处神秘重镇——塞多纳（Sedona）。Dan 分享了自己在塞多纳的亲身体验：他此前从未见过不明飞行物（UFO），但在塞多纳的“秘密山”（Secret Mountain），有人递给他一副夜视仪。在夜视镜中，天空布满微小的移动光点，随后他亲眼目睹五个光团从云层中钻出、聚合移动，然后同时消失，而当地人对此早已习以为常。
随后两人聊起塞多纳怪异的社会生态。Joe 和 Dan 一致认为塞多纳是全美最古怪的地方之一，满地都是新纪元（New Age）信徒和投机倒把的“推销客”，每个人都变着法子赚这 20 块、那 20 块。由于物价飞涨，当地租一套民房的价格甚至超过了主街上的商铺租金，导致根本招不到拿最低工资的服务业工人（最近的城镇在 15 到 20 英里外），整个塞多纳几乎在自身膨胀的高成本下摇摇欲坠。
至于塞多纳吸引新纪元群体的核心标志——“能量漩涡”（energy vortexes），Dan 讲了一个令人捧腹的幕后真相：他的朋友 Robert 在塞多纳居住了很多年。据 Robert 所说，最初当地知名的能量漩涡其实只有三个；直到 1980 或 1990 年代，有一位自称大师的女性来到当地，宣称自己探测到了大量全新的漩涡。搞笑的是，这位女士极度肥胖，“这就是为什么她新发现的每一个能量漩涡，离公路边都只有大约 5 英尺（约 1.5 米）的距离”。
- **塞多纳 UFO 目击**：在秘密山使用夜视设备观察到的编队移动并在云层后集体消失的发光体。
- **塞多纳的经济倒挂**：租金极端高昂，生活成本将普通打工者挤出城镇，导致当地服务业劳动力极度匮乏。
- **能量漩涡的荒诞由来**：所谓新增的大量自然能量节点，其地理位置其实只是根据寻找者的体能极限和公路距离随手标定的。
### [02:27:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8836s) 大峡谷神秘洞穴与禁区传闻
两人聊起寻找荒野遗迹的传闻。Dan Richards 和 Joe Rogan 提到曾有一位博主深入大峡谷探险并拍摄了极其诡异的发现，但后来据说该博主遭遇酒驾车祸身亡；该探险视频在两年内斩获了超过 400 万次播放量。通常许多人只是在 Google Earth 上找线索指指点点，但这名博主是真正肉身前往现场探查。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 大峡谷禁区与民间传闻
accDescr: 展示大峡谷中官方限制、民间传闻以及危险性之间的关系。
subgraph 探索现实
A["Google Earth 发现可疑地点"] --> B["实地探险崖居与洞穴"]
B --> C["官方限制区域 / 原住民领地"]
end
subgraph 传闻与现实阻碍
C --> D["地形极其险峻与搜救困难"]
C --> E["金凯德传说与失落文明传闻"]
E --> F["神秘看守与阴谋论猜测"]
end
```
大峡谷内部确实存在大量崖居遗址（cliff dwellings），但传闻中最夸张的是所谓能容纳 5 万人的巨大地下空间或外来文明遗迹。搜索记录显示大峡谷拥有上千个隐藏洞穴，其中官方记录的有大约 335 个，而绝大部分都对公众严格封锁：
- **封锁原因**：部分区域属于美洲原住民保留地，更多地方则是地形极度凶险，一旦游客被困，搜救代价过高；
- **合法开放地点**：亚利桑那州 66 号公路靠近皮奇斯普林斯（Peach Springs）的“大峡谷溶洞”（Grand Canyon Caverns），属于全美最大的干溶洞之一，提供常规公众导览；
- **金凯德（Kincaid）传说**：传闻中所谓的神秘洞穴遗迹位于科罗拉多河口附近的崖壁上，正是被禁止进入的管制区域。
---
### [02:29:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=8986s) 汉福德核基地与西部的“毒物倾倒区”
Dan Richards 顺着“神秘管制区域”的话题，自嘲地谈起美国地理上的权力结构与荒野开发。他居住在美国西海岸，距离汉福德（Hanford Site）核设施不远。他辛辣地吐槽道，在二战研发原子弹时，东海岸的政客们担心造出可能炸毁地球的疯狂武器，便决定把核反应堆和剧毒废料远远安置在全美另一端的西部，扔在那些“牛仔与乡巴佬”居住的地带。
Dan 打趣说：“如果华盛顿州因此在黑暗中发光，那五十年后我们西雅图就多了一群顶着蓝头发的怪人。”同样的逻辑也适用于内华达沙漠的核试验场：统治阶层绝不会把核试验选在东海岸或罗得岛那些高档宅邸的后院，因为他们怕核尘埃飘进自家花园，反而毫无顾忌地让辐射落在西部。
随后话题延伸到其他神秘区域，例如亚利桑那州塞多纳（Sedona）的“秘密山”（Secret Mountain）。坊间传言如果你在那一带乱晃，很快就会有林务局巡警（Park Ranger）出面驱赶，而且这些巡警身材异常魁梧、全副武装，俨然像高级安保人员而非普通护林员。
---
### [02:31:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9109s) 虚拟果蝇大脑、毁灭性科技与外星文明假说
讨论转向美国境内是否存在外星人基地。Dan 对地外生命持理性的怀疑态度，但他认为如果真有外星人且与人类政府接触，外星人只会在意中美俄三大强权，其他国家都只是附庸。谈及人类能否走向星际文明，Dan 认为人类目前正处在一个极端脆弱的窗口期：
一方面，人类距离真正的星际航行可能还有上百年；另一方面，人类可能距离彻底自我毁灭只有短短二十年。Dan 指出，如今一个手握百万美元的二十岁年轻人就能买到 CRISPR 基因编辑设备在地下室鼓捣基因；更不用说突飞猛进的 AI。他以近期科学家模拟果蝇大脑的实验为例：科学家将果蝇大脑神经元切片并完整上传到物理引擎中，使其在虚拟世界里飞舞，甚至有人打趣说这就像让它在虚拟环境里打《节奏光剑》（Beat Saber）或运行《毁灭战士》（Doom）。这让人联想到科幻名作《无声狂啸》（*I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream*）中的恐怖绝境——意识被困在系统里遭受万年折磨。
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 人类演化困局与矛盾
accDescr: 展示领地灵长类动物与超前技术结合后的演化失衡。
A["领地本能与部落暴力"] --> C["演化失衡的灵长类"]
B["无休止的技术改造欲"] --> C
C --> D{"未来走向"}
D -->|"自毁"| E["生物武器 / AI 失控"]
D -->|"突破"| F["星际物种（如果未灭绝）"]
```
Joe Rogan 提出了一个深层观点：人类的暴力与毁灭倾向，或许本身就是“加速演化”的副产品。如果把高度智力与改造环境的强烈冲动，强行植入到一种具有极强领地意识的原始灵长类动物体内，就会造就人类这种奇怪的混合体——既保留了原始凶残的部落主义，又具备永无止境的创新欲望。Dan 对此深表赞同，认为人类身体与社会心智的发展严重失衡，在单一的技术方向上膨胀得过大，导致物种整体结构充满了极不稳定的设计缺陷。
### [02:35:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9309s) 智慧的演化、群体目标与个体幸福
两人的对话从外星人基因改造人类的可能性展开。Dan Richards 指出，从概率的角度来看，一个物种要想“脱离这颗岩石”（即离开地球进入太空），无论是否经过外星干预，都必须具备特定的特质：必须极其充满好奇心（否则根本不会在乎外太空），必须高度具备社会性（因为需要群体协作），并且自身也要发展出近乎“神一般”的能力。Joe Rogan 提到人类目前只有一个智慧演化的确切样本，但 Dan Richards 反驳称地球上其实有多个例子，比如海豚、虎鲸和鲸鱼。两人探讨了人类很难理解这些海洋哺乳动物的智能：海豚在三维空间中穿梭，不需要像浣熊那样熟练地动手改造周围环境，因此不同物种的大脑结构和沟通方式走向了完全不同的方向。
这引出了一个更宏观的哲学追问：文明的终极目标到底是什么？是为了个体的幸福生活，还是为了物种延续并走出母星？Dan 幽默地提到喜剧演员 Ari Matti 谈及纪录片《谱系之爱》（Love on the Spectrum）中的自闭症群体，指出他们往往比普通人生活得更快乐。Rogan 则分析道，人类表面上看似集体行动，本质上却极其关注个体自我；普通人规划养老金并不是为了人类物种的未来，而只是为了保障自身的生活。然而 Dan 补充说，人类内心也存在一种潜意识渴望，例如自己做学术研究发现新事物，或者 Georges St-Pierre（GSP）在综合格斗中创造出“超人拳”（Superman Punch）时，那种“为人类总体思想宝库添砖加瓦”的成就感是无与伦比的。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 智慧物种的演化动力与终极目标
accDescr: 图表展示了智慧物种脱离母星所需的特质以及人类在个体幸福与集体进步之间的双重拉扯。
subgraph Traits["走出母星的核心特质"]
A["强烈的好奇心"]
B["高度社会性与协作"]
C["改造环境与技术能力"]
end
subgraph Dilemma["终极目标的内在拉扯"]
D["个体目标：追寻幸福与养老生存"]
E["集体目标：拓展人类认知与技术演进"]
end
Traits --> Dilemma
```
### [02:38:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9488s) 蜂群思维、寻水术与显像管电视的高频感知
Dan Richards 观察到，无论是鸟群掠空、鱼群游动还是人类暴动，似乎都存在某种隐秘的“群体心智”（hive mind）或未解的联结机制。即便抛开形而上学的假设，这可能只是信息素或化学信号的作用，但人们确实能直观地感受到环境中的能量氛围——例如走进一个房间就能瞬间察觉到敌意。他指出，许多现象一旦被贴上“玄学”标签，主流科学界就会产生膝跳反射式的排斥，但一线从业者却深信不疑。比如任何以打井为生的人都会使用“寻水术”（dowsing，用探水棒寻水），就如同警察在基层执勤中普遍笃信“满月狂热症”（full moon fever）确实会引发更多混乱一样。
为了类比人类对环境中微弱信号的感知，Dan 提起以前老式显像管电视（CRT TV）的经历：小时候走在街上甚至走进屋子，就能隐约察觉到电视机开着，脖子后面的汗毛都会竖起来。Rogan 对此表示毫无印象，制作人 Young Jamie 随即搜索了技术解释：
- 老式 CRT 电视使用了高压回扫变压器（flyback transformer）和磁偏转系统来驱动电子束扫描屏幕。
- 这些部件在水平扫描频率附近振动，在许多电视制式中约为 15 至 16 kHz，会产生极高且细微的声音。
- 儿童与年轻人对高频声音的听力更为敏锐，因此他们经过关着的门或走进房间时，能轻易辨别出电视处于开启状态；此外屏幕表面也附带有强烈的静电荷。
### [02:41:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9692s) 科学方法的本质与意识形态渗透
话题随后转向现代科学研究的现状与局限。Dan 坦言自己虽然热爱心理学，但他尖锐地指出心理学和考古学在严格意义上并不算硬科学，因为任何过度依赖“自我报告”（self-reported）的领域都充满漏洞，并讽刺道：“你觉得爱泼斯坦（Jeffrey Epstein）会跟他心理医生坦白自己在干嘛吗？绝对不可能。”
Dan 和 Rogan 进一步探讨了当今学术界如何受到时代思潮（zeitgeist）与政治意识形态的污染。Dan 提到自己曾读过关于“女性主义数学”（feminist math）的文章，感到荒谬绝伦；科学方法的核心本应是通过可重复性（replicability）彻底剥离个人的主观偏见。Rogan 也附和指出，在涉及族裔差异的数据研究时，很多人会直接无视客观数据，扣上“数据存在种族主义”的帽子；但这种指控在现实面前十分讽刺，因为统计表现最优异的往往是亚裔，这完全打破了所谓的白人至上主义叙事，却被意识形态主导者刻意回避。
### [02:43:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9805s) 社会马克思主义、受害者奥林匹克与统计数据的反思
对谈从当代社会议题的深层机制展开。对话双方指出，当前的症结在于有人试图将马克思主义从纯粹的货币与经济概念，生搬硬套到社会层面，形成了所谓的“社会马克思主义”（Social Marxism）。这种机制催生了一种“受害者奥林匹克”（oppression Olympics）——每个人都在比拼谁过得更惨，陷入无休止的诉苦与特权清算中。
为了说明这种话语逻辑的漏洞，对话中引入了一组极具争议性的统计数据：在美国，被警察开枪射杀的人群中，有高达 95% 是男性。如果仅仅按照单维度的受害者逻辑，社会是否也应当掀起一场“男性命也是命”（Men’s Lives Matter）运动？然而事实是，男性制造了绝大多数暴力犯罪，警察在面对男性嫌疑人时感受到的威胁远高于女性。同样的逻辑延伸到种族上：警察在面对黑人男子时感受到的威胁可能不同于面对白人男子，但如果直接将这一切一概定性为纯粹的种族歧视，那么忽视男性被射杀比例的做法就同样属于纯粹的性别歧视。
按纯统计学角度推导，白人男性被警察错误射杀的概率，实际上是黑人女性的 20 倍；换言之，像唐纳德·特朗普（Donald Trump）这样的人被警察误杀的概率，在统计层面上远高于卡玛拉·哈里斯（Kamala Harris）。拿出这些统计数据并非要否认现实中存在的种族主义或性别歧视，而是为了反制那些动辄用片面数据进行道德绑架的推论——当一个极其悬殊的数据被摆到桌面上时，原有的片面叙事往往就会土崩瓦解。
- 95% 被美国警方射杀的人为男性，这反映了暴力威胁感知和实际暴力行为的性别分布。
- 统计层面上，白人男性被警方误杀的概率约为黑人女性的 20 倍。
- 这种反例证明，不能简单地把复合的执法现实粗暴化约为单一的社会标签。
---
### [02:45:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=9911s) 道德货币、虚伪的原住民土地致敬与形式主义
紧接着，两人深入剖析了受害者身份在文化中的“货币化”现象。在当下的文化语境中，身为弱势群体成了资本，宣称自己看清了压迫成了资本，公开承认所谓的“特权”（Privilege）并向外界进行道德展示（Virtue Signaling）更是成了极具价值的社交货币。人们争相在公共场合认罪道歉、做土地致敬（Land Acknowledgements），打着“要做个好人”的幌子，实际上却演变成通过给别人扣道德帽子来施加霸凌的恶劣行径。
这种形式主义在现实中往往显得极其虚伪与讽刺。例如，堪萨斯大学（University of Kansas）曾高调发布声明，声称对自己占据原住民土地感到无比愧疚，但当被问到“那你们会把土地还给原住民吗”时，答案显然是绝不可能；甚至早在 1990 年法律就规定应归还的原住民遗骸，校方至今都没有完全遣返移交。
Joe Rogan 分享了他在西南偏南（South by Southwest, SXSW）电影节上的亲身经历。当时现场正在放映纪录片《披露时代》（Age of Disclosure）的首映式，影片的主题是关于人类被外星人入侵。然而，在播放这部关于外星人入侵的科幻/调查题材纪录片之前，主办方竟煞有介事地举行了土地致敬仪式，一本正经地宣读并承认脚下的土地是当年从某某原住民部落手中强占而来的祖传土地。这种把电影放映搞成政治“批斗宣判会”的行为令人啼笑皆非：“这只是一部讲外星人入侵的片子，赶紧放电影就完了，到底在折腾什么？”
---
### [02:47:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU&t=10029s) 远古文明峰会推介与对 AI 泛滥的抵制
在节目收尾阶段，Joe Rogan 提醒 Dan Richards 向听众公布即将举办的线下活动信息。Dan Richards 介绍，由他参与的“寻找失落古文明大会”（Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference）定于 10 月 16 日至 18 日在得克萨斯州奥斯汀的 ACL Live 举行。本次大会阵容豪华，邀请到了包括兰德尔·卡尔森（Randall Carlson）、比利·卡森（Billy Carson）、大卫·奇尔德里斯（David Childress）、库尔特·梅策（Kurt Metzger）以及邓肯·特拉塞尔（Duncan Trussell）等一众知名研究者与嘉宾。
看着活动宣传物料，Joe Rogan 忍不住调侃海报上 Dan Richards 的形象被 AI 处理得太奇怪：“他们把你弄成什么样了？你看上去就像阿兰·瓦茨（Alan Watts），甚至有点像阿米什人（Amish）。”Dan Richards 自嘲说这和昨晚在酒吧被姑娘吐槽的感觉一模一样，并对如今泛滥成灾的劣质 AI 图像表达了强烈反感。
Dan Richards 透露，此前曾有制作团队主动找他洽谈合作，想接管他的频道制作业务。当他明确提出合作红线——“绝对不许使用 AI 制作视频、不许用 AI 剪辑片段、不许用 AI 生成封面缩略图，更绝对禁止用 AI 代替我与粉丝沟通互动”时，对方当场哑口无言，只能尴尬地回应“那我们得重新核算价格了”。Dan Richards 笑称自己这一番要求直接卸掉了对方的“工具箱”，因为那些机构只想走捷径赚快钱。对谈在两人的互致问候与道别声中圆满结束。
- **活动名称**：Quest for Ancient Civilizations Conference（寻找古文明大会）
- **时间与地点**：10 月 16 日至 18 日，得克萨斯州奥斯汀 ACL Live
- **重要嘉宾**：Randall Carlson、Billy Carson、Kurt Metzger、Duncan Trussell、David Childress 等。
## Video description
Dan Richards is an independent researcher whose YouTube channel, "DeDunking the Past," examines lost civilizations and alternative history.
https://www.youtube.com/@DeDunking
https://www.patreon.com/DeDunking
Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan.
Get 30% off + 2 free gifts at https://ARMRA.com/rogan
This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE
[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm9Vu2iNQU)
Original transcript
[0:01] Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
[0:04] >> The Joe Rogan Experience.
[0:06] >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY
[0:08] NIGHT. All day.
[0:12] >> Danny. Hey Joe.
[0:13] >> Good to see you, brother.
[0:14] >> Good to see you again, man.
[0:15] >> So, right off the bat, you hand me this
[0:17] Smithsonian pamphlet. It It's like a
[0:20] very small book on Peruvian elongated
[0:24] skulls, including like diagrams.
[0:27] >> Yeah. Not Peruvian. These are from the
[0:29] Pacific Northwest.
[0:30] >> From This is one of the things where I
[0:32] wanted to really bring up to you. The
[0:34] majority of the elongated schools in
[0:35] recorded history are from Washington
[0:37] State, Oregon. Yeah.
[0:39] >> Now, are these manipulated schools?
[0:42] >> Yes, sir. Those were manipulated
[0:44] >> by people. As a matter of fact, um when
[0:47] Lewis and Clark reached the the Colombia
[0:50] River, they passed the Cascade
[0:52] Mountains. All of the Native Americans
[0:53] west of the Cascades had artificially
[0:56] modified schools. Look at the title of
[0:57] the book. The Chinook sign of freedom.
[0:59] If you didn't have an artificially
[1:00] modified school, you were a slave.
[1:02] >> Wow. The Shinook sign of fre sign of
[1:05] freedom. A study the skulls of the
[1:07] famous chief, how do you say his name?
[1:09] >> Connley.
[1:10] >> Conley.
[1:11] >> And he was he was um he met with Lewis
[1:14] and Clark during the uh during their
[1:17] expedition. Um and he was as famous as
[1:20] Sakajia was 100 years ago. Um but he's
[1:23] just
[1:24] >> disappeared. Um he had an artificially
[1:27] elongated school. A bunch of images that
[1:29] talk about it. He attributed his
[1:31] intellect to his artificially elongated
[1:33] skull. Um
[1:34] >> what?
[1:34] >> Yeah. That he they believed.
[1:36] >> How would you know though?
[1:37] >> They don't.
[1:37] >> They did it when you were a baby.
[1:39] >> Exactly. But they that's what they all
[1:41] believed. And there is actually
[1:42] something to this is one of the things I
[1:44] that's really interesting that I've
[1:45] stumbled on is
[1:46] >> you know Neanderthal if you look at um
[1:48] the difference between a Neanderthal
[1:50] brain case and a human brain case is a
[1:52] huge difference. Like I I have an image
[1:54] if you don't mind, Jamie. You can throw
[1:56] it up there if you don't care. Um but
[1:59] it's all in the back. It's like there's
[2:01] a thing called Chiari malfform type one
[2:04] where the your base of your cerebellum
[2:06] falls into your spinal cord and it
[2:08] causes migraines and all kinds of stuff.
[2:10] And scientists now are saying that it
[2:11] probably came from us and Neanderthal
[2:15] brain case skull not quite fitting.
[2:18] >> And if you think about actually makes a
[2:20] lot of sense, right? Right. I mean, the
[2:21] Neanderthal school is way wide in the
[2:22] back. And that's where all of your your
[2:25] motor skills, your smelling, your
[2:27] seeing, your hearing.
[2:28] >> Yeah. They were more primitive. They're
[2:29] probably super athletes. And the the
[2:31] real the weird question is like, were
[2:34] they smart? And how smart were they?
[2:36] Like their frontal lobe is not as big as
[2:40] ours. Correct.
[2:41] >> Correct.
[2:41] >> And that's where all the thought
[2:43] processing and decision- making comes
[2:45] from.
[2:46] >> So, they probably had insane athletic
[2:49] ability.
[2:49] >> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And and motor
[2:51] skills and visual ability.
[2:53] >> The visual ability is important because
[2:54] look at the size of their eye sockets.
[2:57] >> Now imagine if you wanted the best of
[2:59] both worlds. So you were you were
[3:01] breeding these two species together.
[3:03] >> Look at the jaw on that [ __ ]
[3:05] Imagine trying to knock that guy out.
[3:06] Good luck.
[3:07] >> You did about it. Although they had
[3:08] chests like barrels, too. It's like they
[3:10] they all look like you do naturally.
[3:12] They don't have to lift. They just
[3:13] they're just that way.
[3:15] >> They probably look a lot more impressive
[3:16] than me. Well, well, the guy on the
[3:18] left, he looked he looked like me
[3:19] naturally. He's
[3:21] >> I mean, do you remember that one? It I
[3:24] think it's just nonsense. But there's
[3:26] this one guy who proposed the idea of
[3:28] Neanderthalss being uh like gorilla
[3:31] looking like super predators and he
[3:34] thought that the eyes were bigger so
[3:36] they could see at night
[3:37] >> and he had like this crazy it was very
[3:39] >> they were eating us all. Yes.
[3:40] >> Right. Right. Right. Very sensationalist
[3:42] nonsense
[3:43] >> and the genetic evidence is what you
[3:45] know.
[3:45] >> Yeah. that guy. It was [ __ ] dope
[3:47] though. The idea that this seeing the
[3:49] dark, you know, like primate that lives
[3:53] in the woods and was like infinitely
[3:55] stronger than us. Like could you just
[3:56] rip our arms, right? Like gorilla strong
[3:58] >> and but but not smart enough that you
[3:59] could like, "Hey man, could you please?"
[4:01] No. No. No. No. He's just going to eat
[4:02] you.
[4:03] >> Oddly enough, has a skull that has a
[4:05] larger capacity than us. And so then we
[4:07] have to think, okay, is it just motor
[4:09] skills? Like do we what do we know about
[4:12] the brains of dolphins? Well, we know
[4:15] that their their brain capacity it's
[4:17] quite a bit larger. Like their
[4:19] >> I think their cir their cerebral cortex
[4:21] I think is like 40% larger than a
[4:23] person's.
[4:24] >> Yeah. Something crazy like that.
[4:26] >> So what is that like what's going on
[4:29] with them? Like how are they so much
[4:31] more intelligent than us but they just
[4:33] can't manipulate their environment so we
[4:35] ignore it?
[4:36] >> Well that could be it also could be a
[4:37] degree of chemistry that they can't you
[4:39] know I mean you can't do fire underwater
[4:41] really. So you're kind of stuck with
[4:42] your technological stuff.
[4:44] >> There's no manipulation, right? So all
[4:46] of their intellect must go into other
[4:48] areas.
[4:49] >> Social and hunting and
[4:50] >> but then you find out how horrible they
[4:52] are to each other.
[4:54] >> Yeah.
[4:54] >> You know what I mean? Like the infantry
[4:56] side, you know, like dolphins, female
[4:59] dolphins are very promiscuous. And the
[5:02] reason why they're promiscuous is
[5:03] because if the male doesn't know if the
[5:06] cubs are his or not, if he thinks they
[5:08] might be his, he's not going to kill the
[5:10] cubs. But if a female has cubs, the male
[5:14] will kill the cubs so that the female
[5:16] will breed again. It's like, "Hey, I
[5:19] thought you guys were like the super
[5:20] peaceful [ __ ] smart ones."
[5:22] >> Sounds like Sounds like kind of like us.
[5:24] >> I don't know a lot of guys who are
[5:26] killing babies so that the women will
[5:28] breed,
[5:29] >> but it gets close.
[5:30] >> Chimpanzees do it.
[5:31] >> Do they do that?
[5:32] >> Yeah, they do that kind of stuff,
[5:33] though.
[5:33] >> Bears do that.
[5:34] >> Yeah. It's It's
[5:35] >> Bears do two things. They think they
[5:37] think one they eat cubs to force the
[5:40] female into breeding again, but two they
[5:42] think they just do it for food.
[5:44] >> It's just dark.
[5:46] >> That's that's yeah that's arachnid
[5:48] levels are dark. Right.
[5:49] >> Cannibalism is dark
[5:50] >> always.
[5:51] >> And bears are all cannibals. And this is
[5:52] the thing about people and the
[5:54] athropomorph
[5:56] anthropomorphication. Is that the word?
[5:57] How do you say
[5:58] >> anthropomorphic?
[5:59] >> Anthropomorphification. I always I want
[6:01] I want to say pro but it's po right.
[6:04] an anthropomorph. Anthropomor Yeah, I
[6:08] think you're right.
[6:09] >> Um, whatever it is, people humanizing
[6:12] animals. The weirdest one I think is
[6:14] bears and like you can train bears.
[6:17] There's bears at the circus. You like
[6:19] they're an interesting animal, but in
[6:22] the wild they are some of the [ __ ]
[6:24] most brutal and ruthless creatures.
[6:26] They're it's basically almost like a
[6:28] giant wild dog, you know? And they tear
[6:32] things apart and they eat things while
[6:34] they're still alive. Like they're
[6:35] [ __ ]
[6:36] >> They don't care.
[6:36] >> They don't care. They're [ __ ]
[6:38] horrible. They're horrible to each
[6:40] other. They go into dens and pull out
[6:41] cubs and eat them. I mean, I
[6:45] >> Yeah, just a different set of morality,
[6:48] I guess you could say, or lack thereof.
[6:50] But yeah, I'm glad I'm not a bear cuz
[6:52] I'd probably have been eaten as a cub.
[6:54] >> Or you would have been hit by a car. or
[6:55] have been hit by a car.
[6:57] >> Yeah, that's the rough.
[6:58] >> Or caught in a trap and trained to be a
[7:00] dancing ballerina bear or some [ __ ]
[7:02] stand on a ball.
[7:03] >> The um the the ancient humans though to
[7:06] me are like I feel like this is a this
[7:09] is a an emerging topic even though we've
[7:11] known about Neanderls for so long now
[7:13] that they know about Denisovvens, now
[7:16] that they know about homo florian, how
[7:18] do you say that? Floriansis.
[7:20] >> Yeah, I'm that one pronunciation.
[7:21] >> Island of Flores, man. The the hobbit
[7:23] people. Now they they know, okay, we've
[7:25] got two very distinct human beings that
[7:27] lived with humans that aren't homo
[7:30] sapiens. And the Dennisovven's one is
[7:32] [ __ ] super weird. They're big.
[7:34] >> They're big.
[7:35] >> They were taller than us.
[7:36] >> Then the bigger heads like very almost
[7:38] like Neander. There is um some of the
[7:41] stuff that I got for to talk about here
[7:43] is um
[7:44] >> like uh polyactly multiple fingers and
[7:47] more than five fingers and toes on each
[7:49] hand. That's in the Bible. They talk
[7:51] about the giant. Okay.
[7:52] polyactyl. If there's a gene GI um could
[7:57] you pull up the one that says polyactly
[7:59] paper, please? Thank you. It's they've
[8:01] been studying this and there's a gene
[8:03] that Neanderthal and Denisvens had that
[8:05] a variant that increases polyactyl. It
[8:08] increases um uh cranial deformations. It
[8:12] increases a bunch of stuff. Um this is I
[8:16] mean they and this is uh and this is all
[8:18] newer stuff. You see that's 2023.
[8:21] Oh,
[8:22] >> and there's this is huge.
[8:24] >> I saw your video on this where you
[8:26] talked about there's one family in
[8:28] Brazil that has uh like most of their
[8:31] family members have six fingers and six
[8:32] toes
[8:33] >> and Yeah. And they say it helps them.
[8:35] >> Of course.
[8:35] >> Of course. I can grab the ball better. I
[8:37] can play an extra string. Right.
[8:39] >> Right. Imagine guitar extra finger.
[8:41] That's nuts.
[8:42] >> You could even be an ugly dude and and
[8:44] seduce a woman when you got an extra
[8:45] finger.
[8:46] >> Good luck.
[8:48] Chicks don't want to have kids with a
[8:49] guy who has [ __ ] six fingers. I'm
[8:51] some freak kid.
[8:53] >> The the in South America, they actually
[8:55] honored that stuff. They honored they
[8:57] honored genetic deformations. I honestly
[9:00] believe that they were actively breeding
[9:02] different bloodlines together in South
[9:05] America.
[9:05] >> Look at that baby. That's crazy.
[9:08] >> It's got five fingers and a thumb.
[9:10] That's crazy.
[9:13] I mean, the thing is they look
[9:15] absolutely normal in every other way,
[9:18] except the fact that they have five
[9:19] fingers instead of four. Like, and it
[9:21] would take you a few seconds. It's
[9:23] almost like you're living in the Matrix.
[9:24] And this is like an AI glitch, you know,
[9:26] like AI glitches. They would have people
[9:27] that have like additional appendages,
[9:30] like a weird elbow growing off your
[9:32] elbow, you know, cuz it just glitched.
[9:33] >> The clat walks by. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I
[9:36] like it would take you a while before
[9:38] you real like imagine if you were high
[9:39] and you went over this lady's house and
[9:41] you saw her playing piano and you're
[9:43] like wait a minute why is there so many
[9:45] noises
[9:48] >> slow down with the nose
[9:49] >> how do you have so many fingers
[9:51] >> you wait a you have extra fingers like
[9:54] this dude had gloves gloves right there
[9:57] >> bro he must be a [ __ ] of a
[9:58] goalie
[9:59] >> oh of course
[10:00] >> right it's the greatest hand skill for
[10:02] goalies
[10:03] >> yeah but watch your space for sure.
[10:06] >> More space. You cover it up.
[10:09] >> But I think
[10:09] >> definitely better if you could teach
[10:10] them how to punch. You have a whole
[10:12] another finger that like the width of
[10:14] the hands would be greater. The weight
[10:15] of the hands would be greater.
[10:16] >> Yeah. The guitar players say it's not
[10:18] the extra finger as much as it is the
[10:20] extra stretch, the extra reach that lets
[10:22] them
[10:22] >> pop a couple extra frets.
[10:23] >> Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense.
[10:25] Especially like long fingers.
[10:27] >> The guitar is still made for a five
[10:28] fingered player, right? So you're Yeah,
[10:31] you're just not
[10:31] >> Well, you can figure out how to do it
[10:33] with six. Look what Hendrick's doing
[10:36] upside down. Played it left-handed.
[10:38] >> I guess Stevie Rayvon, local hero.
[10:39] Right.
[10:40] >> Right. Turn that thing and stand. You've
[10:42] seen the live at El McComber one where
[10:44] he he takes his like $15,000
[10:47] Stratacaster stands on the horns and
[10:49] he's rocking the neck back and forth and
[10:51] I'm just pops the string just pick
[10:54] doesn't even care. Just go.
[10:56] >> It's not a toy. It's not an instrument.
[10:58] It's a damn toy. It's a tool. It's a
[11:00] >> Yeah. Anyway,
[11:02] >> I can gush about that guy for a bit. I
[11:04] like Stevie. He's pretty good.
[11:05] >> We have posters of or photos of him from
[11:07] when he was on stage at the club way
[11:09] before we owned it.
[11:10] >> Oh, really?
[11:11] >> Yeah.
[11:12] >> He was on that stage in like the 80s.
[11:14] >> Oh, wow.
[11:15] >> I think I think the picture's from 83.
[11:17] >> Yeah. I popped into Anton a couple of
[11:19] times to just just just to smell the
[11:21] air.
[11:22] >> Yeah, Anton is dope. That's a great
[11:24] place. I've seen Gary perform Gary Clark
[11:26] Jr. perform there a few times. It's
[11:28] [ __ ] sick.
[11:29] >> Yeah. I haven't I haven't got to watch a
[11:30] show there every time I'm in town. It
[11:32] was up to no good. But uh I might have
[11:35] to catch a show there one of these
[11:36] nights.
[11:36] >> Yeah, we did it and everybody got CO.
[11:39] The whole crew, everyone backstage got
[11:41] CO. One of their guys Yeah, one of their
[11:43] guys had CO after the show. It was like
[11:45] during the whole during the full
[11:46] lockdown and they had a concert. I was
[11:48] like, I can't believe we're at a
[11:49] concert. And then we went backstage.
[11:51] We're hanging out in the green room and
[11:52] then everybody got CO.
[11:54] >> [ __ ] I am not a fan.
[11:56] >> Yeah, except me. I didn't get it.
[11:58] Oh, it's because you were, you know,
[12:00] it's funny. It's I was something that I
[12:03] wanted to talk about on this anyway, so
[12:04] we may as well get into it now, is the
[12:06] co thing. You know, they weaponized
[12:08] scientific literacy when they said trust
[12:10] the science on the on the jab. That's I
[12:12] there's a lot of things worth talking
[12:13] about, but the the whole war on science,
[12:16] like I keep call I get called a science
[12:17] denier a lot. [ __ ] that. I'm a science
[12:19] gatekeeper. You don't get to call it
[12:20] science if it ain't science. You stop at
[12:22] the door. Science is a method. It's a
[12:25] it's a way we get somewhere. It's not
[12:27] the end result. Carl Sean said, "Science
[12:29] is more than a body of knowledge. It's a
[12:31] way of thinking, a way of skeptically
[12:32] interrogating the universe. The average
[12:35] time for a peer review for a test on a
[12:38] vaccine is about 10 years. You crank it
[12:40] out in a year and a half, you haven't
[12:42] followed the proper [ __ ] steps. You
[12:44] haven't done science. I'm not a science
[12:46] denier. I'm not I've just do it right
[12:48] and come back,
[12:50] >> right? It's not a coincidence that there
[12:51] was so much money involved.
[12:53] >> We're not stupid. No,
[12:54] >> we know why it it wasn't done because
[12:56] there was no other methods to treat this
[12:58] disease. That's ridiculous. It's not
[13:00] true.
[13:01] >> And that's why they got so mad at me.
[13:02] >> But that's where I was going to go with
[13:05] your doctor, they they threw your
[13:07] personal physicians under the bus. And I
[13:09] don't know anything about that except
[13:10] for that I can't extrapolate. I can
[13:12] guess and say that the guy that your
[13:14] personal physicians probably wants to
[13:16] keep that job probably doesn't want to
[13:18] see you croak from COVID in the
[13:20] meantime. I mean, I could be wrong, but
[13:22] you know, it it seemed really just
[13:23] ridiculous that it was like, oh, they're
[13:25] just pushing a bunch of pseudocience
[13:26] [ __ ] It's like, um,
[13:28] >> that you could look at it that way. And
[13:30] I, you know, everyone was scared and
[13:32] it's not their fault that they, you
[13:35] know, they were presented with this
[13:36] pandemic that caused people a lot of
[13:37] anxiety, but was shocking to me was how
[13:41] few people were willing to say, "What
[13:44] did that guy do?" Instead of saying, "Oh
[13:47] my god, you're anti-science. You're
[13:48] promoting vaccine hesitancy. You didn't
[13:50] get vaccinated and you survived COVID
[13:52] and you're telling everybody how you did
[13:53] it. This is anti-science. Like,
[13:55] >> but it happened
[13:57] >> except they told you you were using a
[13:58] horse dewormer, right? Which
[14:00] >> Well, that was completely insane. But
[14:01] that that's just proof of propaganda.
[14:03] But even without that proof of
[14:05] propaganda, you also have this thing
[14:07] like if if we are all trying to get
[14:09] through something and you see someone
[14:11] who is a very public person, I'm online
[14:14] all the time. I have millions of
[14:16] subscribers, right? Yeah. So, I'm very
[14:18] scrutinized on my and everyone knows
[14:20] that I work out all the time. Everyone
[14:22] knows I take vitamins. I talk about it
[14:23] all the time. Cold plunges and [ __ ]
[14:26] hyperbaric chambers and all this
[14:27] different [ __ ]
[14:29] >> Why wouldn't they say, "Oh, apparently
[14:32] if you're really healthy and you do
[14:35] these things and for maybe whatever
[14:37] reason you can't get vaccinated, this
[14:40] works too."
[14:41] >> There was never even a consideration,
[14:43] right? Even even let's assume the
[14:45] vaccine worked which it which didn't
[14:47] like which let's assume that it
[14:48] prevented infection which it didn't
[14:50] prevented transmission which which it
[14:52] didn't and didn't have any side effects
[14:54] which is certainly not true. So, let's
[14:55] just let's pretend it did. Even then,
[14:58] you have people that are allergic to
[15:00] some of the ingredients in the vaccine,
[15:01] right? Aaron Rogers was one of them. And
[15:04] so, if you tell those people, hey, I
[15:08] understand that this medicine that works
[15:10] you can't take, but here is a guy who
[15:13] did something different and was fine.
[15:16] Like, this is okay, too.
[15:17] >> Instead, they shut all that down,
[15:18] demonetized people, chose channels down.
[15:21] It was It was bad.
[15:22] >> It was interesting. It was it was it it
[15:24] was interesting. It's you know um it's
[15:26] funny watching it from hindsight because
[15:28] we can look at it now and see where you
[15:30] know everything's kind of settled
[15:32] afterwards to a degree. But even still
[15:34] like uh like for example the Fouchy
[15:37] hearings nobody who was a big supporter
[15:40] of his that I know personally knew about
[15:42] that until I told him about it. It was
[15:43] like it just didn't show up in their
[15:45] [ __ ] radar.
[15:46] >> They don't want to know about it.
[15:47] >> Of course not.
[15:47] >> I mean nobody wants to think that they
[15:49] were completely wrong about that, you
[15:51] know.
[15:52] >> Yeah. And that was one of the things
[15:53] they did whip everybody up into a fury.
[15:55] >> Yeah. Look, when you're wrong about
[15:57] something, you got to say, "Well, I was
[15:59] wrong about that for sure."
[16:01] >> That's really honestly like part and
[16:03] parcel not just to being an honest
[16:05] person, but like especially if you're in
[16:07] science. Um,
[16:08] >> yes. You know, like your boy, your
[16:10] favorite archaeologist who's not a
[16:12] scientist, that Flint Dibble guy, he
[16:15] recently did a thing where he was making
[16:16] fun of me and he's like pulls up this
[16:18] thing talking about Easter Island and
[16:20] how Easter Island's earliest habitable
[16:22] layer has food stuffs from South America
[16:24] and Asia. So like the as far back as
[16:27] people were hitting Easter Island that
[16:28] we're aware of, they were hitting both
[16:29] of these continents a thousand years
[16:31] ago. So I I mentioned this Flint clips
[16:34] that he's like, "This is [ __ ] This
[16:35] Dan's confidently wrong. He's full of
[16:37] shit." Five minutes later in this live
[16:38] stream, he catches that that is
[16:40] accurate. Well, actually, there is uh
[16:43] evidence of contact between the two, but
[16:45] he never mentions that it was on Easter.
[16:47] He saves his face rather than and I mean
[16:50] that's not like a big surprise thing,
[16:52] but the point is is that if you're This
[16:55] episode is brought to you by Armra.
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[17:34] >> Scientific. This is what I also think. I
[17:36] think there's all this personal stuff
[17:38] that goes on with these people that is
[17:40] so completely unnecessary.
[17:42] >> And I think the only reason why
[17:45] archaeologists get dismissed
[17:48] by these whatever you would call
[17:50] yourself amateur
[17:53] >> interested amateurs.
[17:54] >> Interested amateurs in all things life
[17:56] and looking at these looking at the data
[17:59] and looking at the science of it. And
[18:00] you're really good at it.
[18:01] >> Well, thank you. I appreciate that. That
[18:03] should be an asset. That's all that
[18:05] should be. That should be an asset to
[18:06] the archaeologists. And if you think
[18:08] they're wrong about something, you
[18:09] should talk to them. Now, I think when
[18:12] he had that conversation with Graham, I
[18:14] think that's the right way to do it. I
[18:16] don't think necessarily he did it in
[18:18] good faith. And I think he wanted to,
[18:20] you know, push a certain narrative. And
[18:22] one of the narratives was the thing that
[18:25] disturb disturbed me the most is he was
[18:27] trying to label Graham as racist for
[18:29] proposing these theories that there's an
[18:31] advanced civilization that existed
[18:32] before the one that we currently see.
[18:34] >> Yeah.
[18:34] >> I don't think that it can be racist.
[18:36] It's human beings. It's not just human
[18:38] beings. It's human beings specifically
[18:40] that live in the very area where those
[18:41] human beings live.
[18:43] >> So it's their ancestors. So the
[18:44] ancestors of Africans are the ones who
[18:46] built the pyramids, right? Whoever the
[18:48] [ __ ] they were, whether whether they
[18:50] were the people of 2,500 BC or whether
[18:53] it was even earlier than that, whatever
[18:54] it was, it was the people that lived
[18:56] right there. The same people.
[18:58] >> So, this is crazy.
[18:59] >> Well, the whole thing is, this is what's
[19:01] really funny. Atlantis, well, they say
[19:02] you assume that Atlantanss were white.
[19:04] Erggo, it's only the brown people
[19:06] buildings that you ask questions about.
[19:08] You're not asking questions about the
[19:09] coliseum. It's like, okay, well, the
[19:10] coliseum has written records. So, I know
[19:12] why the coliseum was built, when it was
[19:14] built, the parthonon, same thing. But
[19:15] you know what I don't know about that
[19:17] was built by white people supposedly?
[19:19] Balbeck. Balbeck was supposedly built by
[19:21] Romans. We're all doing it there, too.
[19:23] It has nothing to do with color. It has
[19:24] everything to do with written records.
[19:26] They ignore this. One of my favorite
[19:28] things to throw at him with Ballback has
[19:29] no written records of the
[19:30] >> not of the tril of the big stuff.
[19:32] Exactly.
[19:33] >> And how do you not write that down?
[19:35] >> You wrote down everything.
[19:37] >> The Romans wrote everything down. They
[19:39] had scribes. Their job was to document
[19:42] everything. They were very concentrated
[19:44] on history.
[19:44] >> Yeah. Yeah, we went off about this when
[19:47] me and Jimmy Corsetti were here. Yes.
[19:49] But talking about like the Roman foot.
[19:51] >> Well, if Jimmy's right, Atlantis was in
[19:53] subsaharan Africa.
[19:55] >> It's Africans.
[19:56] >> Well, I think honestly that I think
[19:58] Atlantis is kind of a catch-all term for
[20:00] a lost civilization that was globe
[20:03] spanning. Yeah.
[20:04] >> And like they would call us 10,000 years
[20:06] from now, they would just lump us in
[20:08] with the damn French and call us the
[20:09] electronic civilization. And with the
[20:11] exception of GSP, I don't want to be
[20:13] associated with a damn French.
[20:16] >> No, I'm kidding.
[20:18] >> There's a lot of dope French people. I
[20:20] love Montreal. I love
[20:21] >> Speaking of um GSP is going to be at
[20:23] that event. Um
[20:24] >> Oh, is he? He's the best. I love that
[20:26] he's doing a podcast. He's a very
[20:28] fascinated guy. He's fascinated and
[20:30] curious about so many things and he's
[20:32] kind and he's open-minded and he's
[20:34] really intelligent. He is so odd. Like
[20:38] when people meet him and I go, "Do you
[20:40] know who that is?" And they go, "No."
[20:42] See, he's like a really nice guy. Like,
[20:43] that is one of the greatest cage
[20:45] fighters that ever lived, they're like,
[20:47] "No way." I go, "One of the all-time
[20:49] greats, if not the all-time great." I
[20:51] think Jon Jones all time great. But I
[20:52] think he's in the conversation like
[20:54] George is in the conversation of one of
[20:56] the greatest that's ever done it. And
[20:58] meanwhile, he's the sweetest, nicest
[20:59] guy. Dude, when I I made a comment once
[21:02] to him on Instagram where he was like
[21:03] doing these leg workouts and I was like,
[21:05] "My legs will never look like that
[21:07] because I'm sitting on a computer all
[21:09] day smoking weed and reading." And he
[21:10] goes, "I trade my legs for your brain
[21:12] any day." And I'm just like, "Sut the
[21:14] [ __ ] up. Your legs have made you
[21:16] millions. What the hell you talking
[21:17] about, boy?"
[21:19] >> Well, everybody wants what they don't
[21:20] have. You know,
[21:22] >> he's going to have me on his pod here on
[21:24] the 17th, too. He's going to be here the
[21:26] 16th or 18th or that thing at the end.
[21:28] >> Yeah. everybody this thing. What are you
[21:29] doing?
[21:30] >> Uh here at uh the Quest for Ancient
[21:32] Civilizations Conference October 16th
[21:35] through 18th at the ACL live here in
[21:36] Austin, Texas. Be me, Rand Carlson.
[21:40] Um Base Forge, you just had him on here.
[21:43] Bass 4J. Um and a few other guys. Um
[21:46] yeah, this thing. There's got a bunch of
[21:48] AI. See the AI generated Amish dude in
[21:50] the middle there.
[21:50] >> Look at all the pseudo science on one
[21:53] picture. I love it.
[21:54] >> Oh man. Yeah, we're we're there.
[21:56] >> It's just like Duncan. It's going to be
[21:59] >> That doesn't look like Duncan at all.
[22:00] That's like Duncan on TRT.
[22:02] >> But Curt and Duncan are going to be
[22:03] there. The Mystery Boys. Those guys will
[22:05] be Those guys are always
[22:05] >> You hear Randle Carlson has a rap song
[22:07] out now?
[22:08] >> Yes. Yes.
[22:09] >> Not Randall. I'm sorry. Billy Billy
[22:10] Carson.
[22:11] >> Randall. I didn't know he released one
[22:14] together.
[22:15] >> My brain got scrambled. Randle. Randall
[22:17] is a rap song.
[22:18] >> When we were in Sedon, Arizona, we him
[22:20] were sharing an Airbnb and he was he
[22:22] wrote it in like the late ' 80s. He was
[22:23] spitting bars at me over breakfast. I
[22:25] was just going [ __ ] damn. This was
[22:26] not on my bingo card. Whoa.
[22:28] >> Randle Carlson rapping at me for
[22:30] breakfast. Carlson is a hip-hop head.
[22:32] >> Uh, from the late '8s.
[22:34] >> He's been
[22:34] >> How do I How do I not know that? I've
[22:36] known that for I should look it up or
[22:39] not.
[22:39] >> Poor J the [ __ ] away over here.
[22:41] >> Randall Carlson hiphop. Please put that
[22:44] into Perplexity. Ask our AI sponsor,
[22:46] Perplexity, what Randall Carlson's
[22:48] history in hip-hop is.
[22:51] >> That would be dope watching [ __ ]
[22:53] Santa Claus spitting bars like that.
[22:54] >> I'm telling you, man. I was I it was I
[22:56] was still drinking coffee and nursing my
[22:58] morning bowl and I was like, "Well, holy
[23:00] [ __ ] Is this the real world?"
[23:02] >> Yeah. Crazy.
[23:04] >> But yeah, uh that's going to be a fun
[23:05] thing. GSP is going to be there now that
[23:07] he just got officially 100% confirmed
[23:09] about an hour ago.
[23:10] >> That's fantastic.
[23:11] >> But uh yeah, that's going to be a lot of
[23:13] fun. Um but uh I'm going to be talking a
[23:16] lot.
[23:16] >> Tickets are available for that. You can
[23:17] get them online.
[23:18] >> Yeah, tickets are available. You can get
[23:19] them online. The Quest for Ancient
[23:21] Civilization. Thanks. Um um Quest for
[23:23] Ancient Civilizations. Um, if you go to
[23:25] my YouTube, there'll be stuff on there.
[23:27] Uh, yeah. If you look for Quest for
[23:29] Agent Civilizations, you'll have no
[23:30] trouble finding.
[23:31] >> So, this conference, uh, available
[23:33] online, people can get tickets. Looks
[23:35] like a dope lineup. And it's all the
[23:37] stuff that I love to talk about. So,
[23:38] >> yeah. Sick.
[23:39] >> Yeah. I I jokingly called it the Rogan
[23:41] Trinity when we got GSP. We've got the
[23:43] pyramids, we've got the comedy, we've
[23:45] got the ass whooping. It all
[23:48] >> So, these people, let's go back to this
[23:51] um this Smithsonian thing. these people
[23:53] with their altered heads.
[23:54] >> Is it your suspicion that they were
[23:57] altering their heads to try to appear
[23:59] like people that were already here? Like
[24:02] the Peruvian skulls and
[24:03] >> No, before I thought Oh, go ahead.
[24:05] Sorry.
[24:05] >> No, go ahead.
[24:06] >> Oh, before I thought that, but um cuz
[24:07] like there's skulls in China that were
[24:09] originally mistaken for chromagnet and
[24:11] Neanderthal and stuff like old and now
[24:13] they say they're artificially modified
[24:14] by people. But
[24:16] >> no, I think um could you pull up the
[24:18] image for Chiari malfformation? It's the
[24:20] It's got two heads with one circled like
[24:22] two cat scans.
[24:24] >> Well, I was talking about the brain
[24:25] falling down into the thing.
[24:27] >> They believe that this is a problem from
[24:28] Neanderthal andor Denise and mingling
[24:31] with us. Skull too small, brain too big.
[24:34] So now if you have this consistent
[24:35] problem, you've got to always got
[24:37] pressure on the brain.
[24:39] >> See how it's pops down there? You've
[24:40] always got this pressure on the brain.
[24:43] >> Now imagine if you
[24:45] >> you might drill holes in your head. Like
[24:47] you've seen all the truncation that's
[24:48] happened down there. There's an image of
[24:50] that. Yep. And then or you might
[24:53] elongate the back of the skull every
[24:55] generation so that your kids don't have
[24:57] the same [ __ ] headaches grandpa did.
[25:01] >> And so it becomes a thing that and this
[25:03] is why if you check out South America
[25:05] Paracus is insane this way. They have so
[25:07] many things. The polyactyli
[25:10] the elongated skulls the tffonation.
[25:13] There's a thing. Could you pull up the
[25:14] Inca bone one where your skulls melt?
[25:17] The plates in the skull melt in the
[25:18] back. If there is stress or a lack of
[25:20] equilibrium, you'll end up what they
[25:22] call firmian bones. Ones in the back are
[25:25] wormyian bones. The ones in the back are
[25:27] so pronounced. Um, the are called Inca
[25:30] bones because they happen mostly in Inca
[25:32] territory. You also see in Easter
[25:34] Island, the Pacific Northwest, and in
[25:36] Asia. But this part of the skull right
[25:39] there, um, there's one that's got a
[25:41] Neanderthal that shows this, too.
[25:43] Neanderthalss have the same issue.
[25:45] There's another one. And there's an
[25:47] island. Uh oh, Jesus. Um
[25:51] but yeah, the uh Sorry, there's Yeah,
[25:53] there's one
[25:54] >> my own head right now.
[25:55] >> There's one with white text at the
[25:56] bottom, Jamie. Sorry. Um but yeah,
[25:58] Neanderthal had it. Um and it's a uh
[26:01] again, it's from a lack of equilibrium.
[26:03] They say it's from the brain and the
[26:04] skull, not quite fitting.
[26:06] >> That makes sense.
[26:07] >> I think in South America, I think that
[26:09] they were mingling different bloodlines.
[26:11] them the the same as you can look at a
[26:13] guy that plays Reacher and tell that
[26:15] he's probably got more Neanderthal in
[26:16] him than I do. And they would mingle
[26:18] these bloodlines and then they would get
[26:20] all kinds of different Yeah, there's a
[26:22] Neanderthal one. Um they would get all
[26:24] kinds of different genetic variations.
[26:26] And I think some of these were bad, but
[26:29] some of them were honored. Like you've
[26:31] seen the jaguar people of the Mech.
[26:34] >> Okay. Um you ever seen uh could you pull
[26:36] up the the dental dysplasia one? The kid
[26:38] with the two fangs. There's there's
[26:39] dental things. It'll make you grow fangs
[26:41] as a child. And it also quite often will
[26:43] give you a hair lip. Jaguar.
[26:47] >> Whoa. And so like if you look Yeah.
[26:53] And so like
[26:54] >> what do you think that's from?
[26:56] >> Again, this is from
[26:57] >> Is that some ancient [ __ ] where people
[26:58] used to have teeth like that?
[27:00] >> It's it's DNA there. They again when we
[27:02] crossmingle DNA. Um there should be one
[27:06] uh right there about the mouths with the
[27:08] uh paper. Sorry, I have to pull up the
[27:10] exact
[27:10] >> right. But those teeth, that's not in
[27:12] any other human primate that we've ever
[27:14] found.
[27:15] >> No, it's it happens in ours. But with
[27:17] >> So, it's just a mal foration.
[27:18] >> A malf for that. And we have a lot of
[27:19] that like the uh some people just keep
[27:22] growing teeth. Right.
[27:23] >> Right.
[27:23] >> Um you know, or you get different bones
[27:26] in the head. Um different shapes of the
[27:28] skull.
[27:29] >> I've seen the skulls, ancient skulls
[27:31] with rows of teeth.
[27:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. some of those um like they
[27:35] don't know for sure how many of those
[27:37] are legit, but the um there's there's
[27:40] definitely no question that these things
[27:42] happen. That's again the real problem
[27:44] with this is becomes a cover up. Like a
[27:47] little bit ago I mentioned that they
[27:48] were all these elongated schools in the
[27:50] Pacific Northwest. um Mount Coffin in
[27:53] Long View, Washington. When Colonel
[27:56] Charles Wilks or Lieutenant Charles
[27:58] Wils, whose father happened to be a
[28:00] member of the Skull and Bone Society in
[28:02] England, when he got to Long View,
[28:04] Washington, he saw Mount Coffin, this
[28:06] place where they had these above ground
[28:07] burials, and there were 3,000 of them,
[28:10] all of them supposedly would have had
[28:12] elongated skulls because again, if you
[28:14] don't have an elongated skull in that
[28:15] neck of the woods, you weren't a
[28:16] freeborn person. And this was you had to
[28:18] be noble to be buried there. 3,000
[28:21] elongated skulls. When he left this
[28:23] campfire accidentally burnt the place
[28:24] down, all those skulls disappeared. Um,
[28:27] that image that he Jamie skipped past a
[28:29] little bit goes just a dude sitting on
[28:31] pile of bones. This is an Indian burial
[28:33] ground and they were just looting the
[28:35] things and selling them left and right.
[28:37] >> Where do you think those things are?
[28:38] >> In people's house, people's hands.
[28:40] >> Well, I've never heard of a story of a
[28:42] person having an elongated skull in
[28:44] their private collection. I have a
[28:45] couple of people that have commented on
[28:46] my videos saying like, "I saw one at so
[28:48] and so's house in 1978, but
[28:50] >> but here but I'll give you the smoking
[28:52] gun though, right? If you're like some
[28:54] Rockefeller type guy, you got a mansion
[28:56] in Rhode Island."
[28:57] >> It's funny you brought up Rockefeller in
[28:59] the 30s when T down in Paracas, he he
[29:02] starts putting out, hey, we've got these
[29:04] elongated skulls down there and I need
[29:06] money. He was getting $300 a year to
[29:08] take care of them. Rockefeller gets wind
[29:10] and history says flat out he took an
[29:12] unexpected trip to Peru. He dropped
[29:15] three grand and walked back with four
[29:17] bundles. Now according to
[29:19] >> that's it. Three grand.
[29:21] >> Yeah. And four four grave bundles.
[29:23] That's 10 times what Tel was getting a
[29:24] year. 10 times what the guy was getting
[29:26] a year to take care of all of them. He
[29:27] coughs up four out of like 300 bundles.
[29:29] Now those four bundles were supposedly
[29:32] displayed at the Met. Supposedly
[29:33] displayed at the National History Museum
[29:35] in New York. No photos exist. No
[29:36] drawings exist. They may have been
[29:39] repatriated. They may not have been
[29:40] repatriated. Depends on who you ask. The
[29:42] AI will run you in a damn circle of
[29:44] going with it. At the end of the day, we
[29:47] don't know which four they what they
[29:49] look like. But I can tell you this much.
[29:51] There's about 300 of those bundles to
[29:53] pick from. Do you think Rockefell if one
[29:54] of them had great big old devil horns
[29:56] and a third eye, do you think
[29:57] Rockefeller left it or took it with him?
[29:59] Did [ __ ] no-brainer [ __ ] Right.
[30:01] Right.
[30:01] >> So, the best of the best always gone.
[30:04] And as soon when Rockefeller found out
[30:06] that he couldn't go get the ones in the
[30:07] Pacific Northwest anymore, but there was
[30:09] some somewhere else, he ran there. And
[30:10] right now, you sent me the video just a
[30:12] little bit ago. But this is more there.
[30:15] These skulls are disappearing off the
[30:16] shelves in the museums right now.
[30:18] >> Yeah.
[30:18] >> Right as we speak. This this cover up.
[30:20] There's this cover up. You I'm sure
[30:23] you've seen the map. Um it a 100 years
[30:26] ago they wrote drew a map of artificial
[30:28] cranial deformation and then like 10
[30:30] years ago they made another one. both of
[30:31] these on peer-reviewed papers and the
[30:34] older map has more information. There's
[30:36] more the more areas they've erased. The
[30:38] island of Newi had it. Ancient Hawaiian
[30:42] people had about 8.9% of them that they
[30:44] dig up had elongated skulls. Nobody
[30:46] [ __ ] talks about that. Nobody knows
[30:47] about it. If you want to go look at it,
[30:49] the answer is no.
[30:50] >> When you say ancient, like what year?
[30:52] >> Not sure. But when they dig them up and
[30:54] they start doing at prehistoric they
[30:56] call it, but prehistoric in Hawaii, you
[30:58] know, maybe a thousand years ago.
[31:00] >> Wow. So this is all over the world
[31:02] people are doing that. Well yeah that
[31:04] what you're saying about the brain size
[31:07] and the the base of the brain completely
[31:09] makes sense.
[31:10] >> Thank you. I I mean to me it seems like
[31:11] the most smoke and it not only does it
[31:13] smoking gun it's like it coincides with
[31:15] human evolution because what would be
[31:18] imagine you've got a Neanderthal and a
[31:20] homo sapiion and they're talking to each
[31:22] other trying to figure out a problem and
[31:24] they both walk away from that with like
[31:26] mad respect for the other person's
[31:27] ability to see what they don't. wouldn't
[31:30] they want to mingle that?
[31:33] So like uh Jamie, could you pull that
[31:35] picture that I got of the uh that family
[31:37] tree? Um it's just it's like an empty
[31:41] blank white family tree and then right
[31:42] after it's the like imagine if you were
[31:44] trying to make a symbol to tell
[31:46] everybody, hey, this is where we mingle
[31:47] bloodlines. So like this is a standard
[31:49] kind of thing, right? And could you pull
[31:51] up that condalabra next? should be like
[31:55] >> um sorry
[31:58] >> uh that same symbol basically with the
[32:02] condal labra of the Andes you've seen
[32:04] that right the
[32:06] condal labra of the Andes is visible 12
[32:08] miles out to sea okay um
[32:12] if you think we're trying to draw the
[32:15] draw we're trying to draw the mingling
[32:17] of of bloodlines and here's a symbol of
[32:19] where we're doing it [ __ ] doesn't I
[32:22] mean does that kind of look uncanny. And
[32:24] then could you pull up that Paracus
[32:25] textile, Jamie? This one even wore. This
[32:28] is when they buried people in paracus.
[32:31] This was they'd put them in these
[32:32] textiles. And this one textile. Look,
[32:35] they're back. They look at what that try
[32:37] to translate that and keep in mind what
[32:39] I was just telling you. Okay. It looks
[32:41] like a monkey on either side and then a
[32:44] person in the middle. And it looks like
[32:46] there's some sort of a transference of
[32:48] something through the top of their
[32:50] heads. Well, that's upside down.
[32:52] >> Yeah, that's upside down. Well, there's
[32:55] first of all, it looks like they did
[32:56] DMT.
[32:57] >> Well, clearly
[32:58] >> it looks like they
[32:59] >> This is Hours of Iawaska right there,
[33:01] buddy.
[33:01] >> 100% they were on DMT. Um, but that does
[33:04] look like two monkeys, right? It looks
[33:06] like they have tails,
[33:08] >> doesn't it?
[33:08] >> Yeah, it does.
[33:09] >> And then the one in the middle looks
[33:11] like the bad [ __ ] That's the
[33:12] boss.
[33:13] >> That's pregnant.
[33:14] >> I've met that guy before.
[33:16] >> You have?
[33:17] >> I have. I met that guy. I met that guy
[33:19] over there. But you see that notice in
[33:22] the middle of the thing, he's got a
[33:23] something in his tummy.
[33:24] >> Uhhuh.
[33:25] >> Um I mean, if you think about the same
[33:28] line of reasoning, we're mixing
[33:30] different blood lines to make something
[33:31] more. That image kind of seems to
[33:34] >> Also, they always have three fingers and
[33:36] three toes. And then you get to the
[33:38] tridactyl mummies.
[33:40] >> I do. Yeah, look at the monkeys. I don't
[33:42] know what to think about the tridactyl
[33:44] mummies.
[33:45] >> Neither do I. It's honestly like um I'm
[33:48] of the opinion now that I think that the
[33:50] genetic stuff they were doing in South
[33:52] America down in Peru created a lot of
[33:55] artificial created a lot of natural
[33:57] weird problems and some of them would be
[34:01] um like misshapen skulls and then I
[34:03] think they would wrap the heads to
[34:04] artificially modify them and I think
[34:06] that's why down there they get so crazy
[34:08] looking is because it's a combination of
[34:10] genetics and of artificially playing
[34:12] with it. Okay.
[34:14] >> The rest of the world, they don't get
[34:16] that con.
[34:16] >> So, do you think maybe they had like a
[34:18] bulbous roundish head but extra large?
[34:20] Because there's those skulls as well
[34:22] that seem to be not deformed, but they
[34:24] do have a larger brain capacity.
[34:26] >> Yeah. Though the ones that are bulbous
[34:27] in the back, those are um that's the
[34:29] most common type of cranial deformation
[34:32] that you see. It's what um conly skull,
[34:35] the chief that I was showing you. Um
[34:38] it's uh Can you pull that one up,
[34:39] please, Jamie? Sorry.
[34:40] >> So, bulbous in the back. Bulbous. Yeah.
[34:43] That's huge. Yeah. And that again that
[34:45] would keep it. And now notice even back
[34:47] a 100 years ago that picture that he was
[34:48] just showing that uh
[34:51] >> the other photograph. Why isn't his
[34:53] skull elongated?
[34:54] >> Well, it's hard to tell because he's
[34:56] looking straight on. It could be.
[34:58] >> All of the all of the artistic work of
[35:00] him is lacking that for some reason.
[35:02] >> Right. But couldn't you see that if some
[35:05] Well, that one looks pretty elongated.
[35:08] >> God, go back to that. That's crazy.
[35:10] Imagine meeting those dudes. You'd be
[35:11] like, "Yo, what are you?"
[35:14] >> Check check.
[35:15] >> And look, they're doing it to the baby
[35:16] right there.
[35:17] >> Oh, the poor kid. Oh, imagine being a
[35:20] baby. You're [ __ ] strapped into that
[35:21] thing.
[35:22] >> Oh, man. Dave's uh in this book here, it
[35:24] quotes from a book called A Story That
[35:26] Used to be Required Reading up where I
[35:27] live. And uh the guy that witnessed
[35:30] them, one of these kids being their
[35:32] headbinding, it said that their eyes
[35:33] bulged out of their skull like a mouse
[35:36] caught in a trap.
[35:37] >> Oh my god. So when you think about that
[35:39] honestly, but if your kid was going to
[35:41] have migraines incessantly for the rest
[35:43] of their life, you might just do that
[35:45] anyway.
[35:45] >> Yeah, I guess they had to do it if
[35:47] you're right. If you're right about the
[35:48] base of the brain, which kind of tracks
[35:51] it,
[35:51] >> but it to me the the the capacity of the
[35:56] skulls being so much larger and some of
[35:58] the Peruvian skulls is weird.
[36:00] >> It is. It's a funny one, too, because
[36:02] these guys will argue back and forth.
[36:04] You'll get a lot of skeptics that say
[36:05] there is no larger capacity, but the
[36:08] guys that measure it claim that there
[36:10] is, and the other guys that measure it
[36:12] claim it's
[36:12] >> Well, that one that we always show all
[36:14] the time, Jamie, that one that I'm
[36:15] really fascinated by, that one image,
[36:17] it's so big. It's so big. It's so crazy.
[36:20] You're looking at it and you're like,
[36:21] "What is that?" That Imagine meeting
[36:23] that guy. You would be freaked out like
[36:26] that. That would not look at all like a
[36:28] person. You would think, "Oh my god,
[36:29] this guy's from another planet."
[36:30] >> Yeah. Like that guy. And then there's
[36:32] the sagittal suture thing that some of
[36:35] them don't have the sagittal suture that
[36:37] we have.
[36:38] >> Yeah, that's uh Yeah. Again, um these P
[36:42] >> Look at that head.
[36:43] >> Look at that head, man. Also, look at
[36:45] the size of the eye sockets.
[36:47] >> Yeah, it's it's
[36:48] >> the eye sockets are [ __ ] huge. That
[36:50] person must have insane eyeballs.
[36:53] Imagine what their eyes would look like
[36:54] when they're looking at you. I mean, how
[36:56] much bigger is that than a human's eye
[36:58] socket? It's so much bigger.
[37:01] That must have been a wild looking dude.
[37:04] Imagine bringing that guy over your
[37:05] house for a party. Your friends be like,
[37:07] "Yo, who's the guy who keeps reading
[37:10] everybody's mind?"
[37:11] >> I know. No [ __ ] Now, I'm not playing.
[37:13] If you were playing trivia, he's on my
[37:14] team.
[37:14] >> That guy's the freakiest one, man. The
[37:16] one on the left. But what you're saying
[37:18] might be accurate, right? That that
[37:20] might have been a rounded thing that was
[37:22] manipulated to be a a flattened thing.
[37:25] >> Yeah, that's I I think that it was I
[37:27] think that it was partially natural.
[37:29] Like even the sagittal suture that um
[37:31] this is one of the things they find with
[37:33] Denise and Neanderthal DNA. That one on
[37:36] the right, is that real? This
[37:38] >> Yeah. Is that AI? Is that horseshit?
[37:41] That's [ __ ] real.
[37:43] >> Come on, man. What are we looking at?
[37:46] And someone stole that. Someone's got
[37:48] that in their [ __ ]
[37:50] >> Rhode Island mansion.
[37:51] >> Of course.
[37:51] >> You know those uh Bronze Age or Gilded
[37:54] Age mansions that they have in Very
[37:56] weird, man. And I got into a a YouTube
[37:58] rabbit hole the other day of bronze or
[38:01] guilded age mansions. Oh boy.
[38:02] >> In Newport, Rhode Island where all these
[38:05] like [ __ ] super rich creepy people
[38:08] set up their castles.
[38:10] >> It's nuts, man. I guarantee if you get
[38:12] in the room, there's a [ __ ] glass box
[38:15] and inside of it there's one of these
[38:16] skulls. It looks like it's from another
[38:18] planet.
[38:18] >> But yeah, and and it's so it's weird to
[38:21] me that they're hiding all this. It's
[38:22] it's
[38:23] >> somebody's hiding all that. Well, it's
[38:26] it the maybe not just somebody, but
[38:30] there's definitely money behind it
[38:31] because it it happens like so fast and
[38:34] it hap like the the article I'll I I
[38:37] will link an article in a video and
[38:39] it'll be dead in two weeks and I'll have
[38:40] to go [ __ ] find like I've got three
[38:42] different ways to find this one thing
[38:43] right now and I've downloaded it because
[38:45] it's just keeps disappearing. It's the
[38:47] what talks about Rockefeller buying the
[38:49] skulls and it's just
[38:51] >> someone scrubbing the internet of the
[38:52] rockfeller scub.
[38:55] >> Oh, it still shows up. But
[38:56] >> you think it's because someone has them
[38:57] and they're like, "Shut up."
[38:58] >> I'm [ __ ] I'm 100% those school. Do you
[39:01] The history says that he either
[39:02] repatriated them or he left them in the
[39:04] museum and it's like it so and then I
[39:06] asked you asked, "Well, what's the
[39:07] catalog numbers?" Oh, well, there are no
[39:09] catalog numbers for human remains. Okay,
[39:10] [ __ ] you. I know better than that. It's
[39:12] it's and the ultimate what really gets
[39:16] me is is this. They give you the same
[39:18] excuse for Papa New Guinea as they do
[39:19] for China, as they do for Easter Island,
[39:22] as they do for Hawaii, as they do for
[39:23] the Pacific Northwest, as they do for
[39:25] Paracus. Well, it's about, you know,
[39:28] it's about like protecting the
[39:29] indigenous people's um beliefs and they
[39:32] they don't want you to have like their
[39:33] skulls because then that would be like
[39:35] you have part of their souls. It's like,
[39:37] okay, I can understand that some of them
[39:38] might think this way, but we got
[39:40] Menanites in Pennsylvania that don't
[39:43] believe that, and they're sitting right
[39:44] next door to their friends that do
[39:46] believe that. Um, how am I supposed to
[39:48] accept that the entire Pacific Rim
[39:50] [ __ ] all falls into line? We can't
[39:52] get them to do that same [ __ ] in
[39:53] Pennsylvania. I don't I don't buy it.
[39:55] This is This is a European thing. This
[39:57] isn't a This isn't an islander thing.
[40:00] This isn't a Polynesian thing that's
[40:01] covering these things up. These people
[40:03] are perfectly content to have their
[40:04] skulls displayed. as far as we can tell.
[40:07] But it's always some white dude going,
[40:08] "Oh, we gota we gotta hide those [ __ ]
[40:10] skulls because we got appeasy
[40:14] at the end of the day. Please put all
[40:16] your [ __ ] in in the in the museum so
[40:18] that we can keep a good eye on it for
[40:20] you. Can I see it? [ __ ] you. It's gone.
[40:23] [ __ ] you. It's gone. Try to find this
[40:25] online. You'll find an an image that
[40:28] says no image available that has a title
[40:30] and that's it. you. There was one, last
[40:32] I looked, there was one copy that was in
[40:34] a uh that was in a library in Malta.
[40:38] >> And you really think that's because
[40:39] someone's in possession of this stuff
[40:40] and they're trying to squash it?
[40:42] >> I think that there's a narrative there
[40:43] that people don't want pushed. I think
[40:45] that it might have something to do with
[40:47] um I mean, let's be honest, what I'm
[40:50] talking about when you start talking
[40:51] about mingling different bloodlines for
[40:52] different traits, this does sound
[40:53] awfully eugenics, right? This does sound
[40:56] like it's dipping your toes into this
[40:58] kind of politically incorrect stuff. But
[41:00] how is it eugenics if people just
[41:02] interbred?
[41:03] >> I if there was a I believe there was a
[41:05] program in Paracus like uh
[41:07] >> really could you pull up one of the
[41:09] pictures of the person presenting the
[41:11] when they would bring their jag there's
[41:13] there's when those jaguar babies right
[41:16] the the jaguar people in the mech
[41:17] society had the hair lip and the things
[41:19] like I was showing there's more than one
[41:22] statue of them presenting them. Here you
[41:24] go. Tada. Here's my baby. This baby's
[41:27] all [ __ ] mutilated. Not like me.
[41:29] Tada. There you go.
[41:30] >> That baby doesn't look mutilated,
[41:32] though.
[41:32] >> It's uh That's not a very good image,
[41:34] but yeah, it's
[41:34] >> Are there any That one doesn't look That
[41:36] one looks normal. It just looks like a
[41:38] mother with a baby.
[41:38] >> Well, you have to If you look at the top
[41:40] down, both of those, they have hair lips
[41:42] >> and they're missing the teeth. They're
[41:44] They are jaguar babies.
[41:46] >> Like that one, that last image. Yeah,
[41:49] >> that's a that's a trophy skull
[41:53] >> with a the only trophy skull known with
[41:54] a cleft lip. You know, if you were born
[41:56] with a cleft lip, even the Spanish
[41:58] recorded, if you were born with a cleft
[42:00] lip, uh, to their people, they would put
[42:02] you in a temple as part of the workers,
[42:03] you were considered holy. Six fingers
[42:05] was considered holy. Deformationations
[42:07] were considered holy.
[42:09] >> And this trophy skull, what is, what do
[42:12] you mean by that?
[42:13] >> I mean that this is like a mummified
[42:15] skull with a hole drilled in it. I wish
[42:16] I could get a real image, but this is
[42:18] the only one that exists. Is this
[42:19] >> So, somebody has that somewhere in the
[42:21] museum or
[42:21] >> Yeah. Or somewhere? Yeah,
[42:23] >> somewhere.
[42:24] But yeah, there's there's a bunch of
[42:26] these trophy skulls that they kept down
[42:28] in South America. They would wear skulls
[42:30] on their belt. They didn't shrink them
[42:32] or nothing. They just drill a hole right
[42:33] in the [ __ ] thing and hang it right
[42:34] on their belt.
[42:35] >> Yeah. But that one was especially prized
[42:38] cuz that was a noble.
[42:40] >> You're walking around with a noble
[42:41] person's skull hanging from your belt.
[42:43] That's how they would wear them.
[42:44] >> I'm a badass.
[42:45] >> Wow.
[42:46] >> Yeah. That part of the world was never
[42:48] >> So you think there's a potential that
[42:51] they were creating they were breeding
[42:54] people specifically.
[42:56] >> Yeah. I think that they would like pick
[42:57] pick bloodlines and be like, you know
[42:58] what, you look more like and you look
[43:01] more like and you need to have a baby
[43:02] together and then
[43:04] >> here's a baby.
[43:05] >> Oh, we got a good one. It's a jaguar.
[43:08] >> So what do you think the whole tridactyl
[43:10] thing is?
[43:11] >> I think some of the tridactyl mummies
[43:13] look fake as [ __ ] to me, just to be
[43:14] clear. the early the tiny ones
[43:17] >> the little the ones that look like cake
[43:18] >> but the ones that they do the cat scans
[43:21] of you're like wow you know
[43:23] >> and then you find out that they're like
[43:24] at least 1200 years old you're like are
[43:26] you telling me that 12200 years ago
[43:28] someone created this
[43:30] >> I think DNA would be a good way to to
[43:33] get into that to begin with because
[43:35] >> yeah I mean it's just weird that this is
[43:38] all going on and we don't have
[43:39] definitive answers and there's not also
[43:41] like a mad rush amongst scientists to
[43:44] discover. Are these two trophy skulls?
[43:46] >> Yeah.
[43:47] >> Oh, this one just has a drill hole in
[43:49] the forehead and a rope attached to it.
[43:51] >> They didn't [ __ ] clown around
[43:52] >> with the skin on it and the hair. So,
[43:55] this person is just walking around with
[43:56] someone's head wrapped around their
[43:59] waist.
[43:59] >> The description I just read said they
[44:00] were most I mean, the ones that they
[44:02] found were young women,
[44:04] >> like 13 or 16 years old.
[44:07] >> But I don't know if that's what these
[44:08] are.
[44:09] >> One of them looks like a woman. The one
[44:11] on the right looks like a woman.
[44:13] kind of looks like.
[44:14] >> That's so crazy.
[44:17] >> But yeah, that's that's where things get
[44:20] so weird when you go back and you
[44:22] realize that entire cultures
[44:25] they they they engaged in ritual
[44:27] sacrifice at a mass scale like what the
[44:31] Aztecs did. They did wild mass sacrifice
[44:34] and they their their culture was so they
[44:38] it involved sacrifice so much that they
[44:41] would go out and get other people and c
[44:44] that's one of the reasons why Cortez was
[44:46] able to group all these other people to
[44:47] attack the Aztecs. Like these
[44:48] [ __ ] have been killing us
[44:50] ritually forever.
[44:52] >> Yeah, we're we're happy to kick these
[44:53] guys' ass. Oh wait, you're not going to
[44:55] help us out afterwards? Oh, my one of my
[44:58] favorite stories about that afterwards
[45:00] is they're like, "Okay, we need all you
[45:01] guys to bring all your cotices here so
[45:03] that we can we can put them on these
[45:04] shelves." And so like all these
[45:06] Mesoamerican cotices show up and the
[45:08] Spanish fryer is like torch [ __ ]
[45:11] watched them all burn.
[45:12] >> Yeah.
[45:12] >> And there's like a handful left that
[45:14] exist now.
[45:15] >> I know.
[45:15] >> They just bought it like three years
[45:17] ago. They bought those ones from a
[45:18] family in Mexico that had had them for
[45:20] like 500 years. And one of them talks
[45:22] about the building of Teayoti Wakan.
[45:24] >> Whoa. And the Mexican government bought
[45:26] it for like 250 grand. It was like like
[45:28] I was telling Matt Bell and Matt Bell's
[45:29] like that's [ __ ] nothing.
[45:31] >> Is that a dope trophy?
[45:32] >> Some of these are [ __ ] sick.
[45:34] >> Ancestor chief skull. Wow.
[45:36] >> Hold on though. Wait till I get to some
[45:37] of these down here.
[45:38] >> Holy [ __ ]
[45:41] >> So now imagine this. These are crazy.
[45:44] >> Oh man. Are you sure they aren't from
[45:45] Hellraiser?
[45:46] >> This is like straight out of the
[45:47] Predator.
[45:47] >> Yeah. So these were found in Asia.
[45:49] >> What?
[45:50] >> My dear god. I don't this some of this
[45:52] looks almost like this is like from out
[45:54] of a movie set.
[45:54] >> Well, they've glued like tusks onto some
[45:57] of the skulls.
[45:58] >> What the hell is that?
[45:59] >> Whoa. Go back up a little bit.
[46:03] >> Well, that look like some of
[46:04] >> Yeah, that one on the right with the the
[46:06] horn coming out of his nose. What the
[46:08] >> human child trophy?
[46:10] >> Human child trophy skull. What the [ __ ]
[46:14] man?
[46:15] >> How did I never hear about this before?
[46:17] Well, how about the one with the
[46:18] headsets on? That one's got headphones
[46:21] on.
[46:21] >> That's I almost
[46:25] >> What the [ __ ] man?
[46:27] >> Why Why does it say info email? Are you
[46:29] selling these?
[46:29] >> That's Yeah, I mean I I stumbled across
[46:31] something here. It does say art
[46:33] >> art tribal art Asia, which is doing some
[46:36] weird [ __ ] But
[46:37] >> yeah, that actually doesn't look like a
[46:38] skull. That looks like it's carved out
[46:40] of wood. Like the nose part, it's all
[46:42] filled in.
[46:43] >> You imagine if they you found out there
[46:45] was a website you could just order
[46:46] trophy skulls.
[46:46] >> That's what I was I did. I was finding
[46:49] recreated ones on uh Etsy that people
[46:52] are making.
[46:55] >> Oh,
[46:55] >> it says it's a replica.
[46:57] >> Lord,
[46:57] >> but
[46:59] >> what kind of a [ __ ] Etsy person
[47:01] >> made by monster? That's the kind of
[47:02] person.
[47:06] >> It's like I ain't even trying to hide
[47:07] it. [ __ ] I'm a monster.
[47:08] >> [ __ ] dude with an Etsy page of just
[47:11] skulls. That's wild,
[47:13] >> boy. But you know, even uh some of these
[47:16] ch heads have hair lips.
[47:19] >> Like I got a a picture saved on one of
[47:21] those that has it. It was And again, if
[47:25] uh you mingle Neanderthal or Denise DNA
[47:29] with human DNA, this is a thing is you
[47:31] end up with facial deformations
[47:33] including hairlets.
[47:34] >> I think it's real, bro.
[47:35] >> What?
[47:36] >> Early 20th century diiacinized
[47:39] trophy skull and it's got a name. It
[47:41] costs a lot of money and they say where
[47:44] it came from.
[47:45] >> You could buy that.
[47:46] >> Yeah.
[47:47] >> Talking about
[47:48] >> plug in for the price.
[47:50] >> Do you think that Can you imagine if we
[47:52] had a [ __ ] skull, human skull on the
[47:55] desk? That's too creepy.
[47:56] >> That is
[47:56] >> cuz we don't know how the guy died or
[47:58] the woman died.
[47:59] >> A private collection from Thousand Oaks,
[48:00] California.
[48:01] >> Wow. See how many private collections
[48:03] are out there. I was telling
[48:04] >> See if you can find elongated skull for
[48:06] sale.
[48:06] >> I was telling you about how I got here,
[48:08] honestly. I was looking. I was telling
[48:11] you about that Chief Connley.
[48:13] He was a huge friend to the honks that
[48:16] came through that area. He he married
[48:18] off his daughters to fur trappers. He
[48:20] cried when they moved the fort 30 miles
[48:21] away. He was like he was a bunch of
[48:24] braves came up and said, "We're going to
[48:25] go kill all these white guys." He's
[48:26] like, "Hey, hey, hey, do you know see
[48:28] how tight their tightly woven their
[48:29] cloth is? Do you see how strong their
[48:31] weapons are? Do you see any of their
[48:32] kids or their women? Do you think this
[48:34] is all they're capable of or do you
[48:35] think they're going to bring more to
[48:36] bear when they bring their families with
[48:37] them? Let's not [ __ ] with these guys."
[48:39] He was really shrewd and smart. He died
[48:42] three years later. Some British dude
[48:44] chopped his [ __ ] head off. They
[48:45] actually had hit him. They instead of
[48:46] these above above ground canoe burials,
[48:48] they'd hit him because they knew. Dude
[48:50] chops his head off, ships the skull back
[48:52] to England. And it wasn't until this
[48:53] this came out five years after they'd
[48:55] repatriated the skull to the Chinuk
[48:58] people.
[48:59] >> But yeah, they actually carved on the
[49:00] back of his [ __ ] head even like um
[49:05] Yeah. Here, Chief Conley. We Here's his
[49:07] skull. And here's a friend says,
[49:09] >> if you can't see it, they engraved that
[49:12] on the back of his skull.
[49:14] >> Oh my god.
[49:15] >> It's like so horrific. And uh like so
[49:20] you can see why the Smithsonian might be
[49:21] a little hardressed in letting this
[49:23] stuff out. But um
[49:25] >> well well the the Provian skulls though,
[49:28] do do like when you you look at them and
[49:30] you look at the monster rod, do you
[49:32] think there's more to this story? Is it
[49:35] is this as simple as cranial deformation
[49:39] plus uh they do it on purpose or is
[49:42] there a potential for a different
[49:44] species of human that live there?
[49:46] >> There's almost certainly in my opinion a
[49:48] different species is human that live
[49:50] there and I mean even you know I'm not
[49:51] into the ancient alien stuff but in all
[49:53] honesty I wouldn't be if if there was
[49:56] aliens intermingling with humans this
[49:58] would probably be the best smoking gun
[50:00] place for it. There's also all the
[50:01] evidence that they were building art
[50:03] that you could only see from the sky.
[50:04] >> Exactly.
[50:05] >> Which is really weird.
[50:06] >> Which is really weird. And um even
[50:08] things like uh like that condalabra of
[50:11] the Andes that I was that's visible
[50:13] again 12 miles out to sea. Easter
[50:15] Island's close enough. Imagine the guys
[50:17] jumping down from right here from
[50:18] Portland, Oregon. Just jumping down the
[50:20] coast to Paracas.
[50:21] >> Where were you drawn the conclusion that
[50:23] that represents genetic engineering? I I
[50:26] wouldn't have drawn it to begin with,
[50:27] but it looks like a family tree and it's
[50:29] like with everything else lined up all
[50:31] of a sudden it's like, well, I mean, if
[50:32] you're trying to say, "Hey guys, this is
[50:34] where we do this. What symbol would you
[50:36] use?"
[50:37] >> Right?
[50:37] >> And that's where, okay, if again, if
[50:39] this was in a vacuum, this that's not
[50:41] how I got there. This is this is kind of
[50:43] the icing on the cake is the paracas
[50:45] condalabra and that uh that textile
[50:47] thing. The honest to god evidence is I
[50:49] mean there's a lot of papers that a
[50:51] handful of papers that I've got
[50:52] screenshots of there but you pick your
[50:54] genetic deformation and then Google it
[50:57] with denis or neanderthol and almost
[50:59] guar [ __ ] teed hydrophilis that big
[51:02] skull thing that I showed there you see
[51:03] some few of those in paracus with those
[51:05] great big things hydrophilis is
[51:07] something that's they is the frequency
[51:09] is increased when you mingle denisven or
[51:12] neanderthol DNA it's constant issue
[51:15] >> that candalabra image does that image
[51:18] appear in other areas?
[51:20] >> It actually does. Crazily enough, it
[51:22] appears in Easter Island on skulls that
[51:26] are carved with that same image.
[51:29] >> Wow.
[51:30] >> I I I didn't put any in the file, but
[51:32] I've got them in a a video. There's two
[51:34] of them that they have. One is like a
[51:36] straight line, and then one's like a
[51:38] birdman kind of. It's But it's the same
[51:39] image. It's the same.
[51:40] >> When you say skull, do you mean human?
[51:42] >> I mean, a deceated like those we were
[51:44] just looking at. So, a dead human that
[51:46] has that on their head
[51:47] >> that they scratched it in afterwards
[51:49] like that. There's a the par the uh
[51:52] Easter Island had elongated skulls, but
[51:55] almost all of those are gone. Um they're
[51:58] and they're hard to find images of, like
[51:59] impossible, but they do have these. Um
[52:02] and they were like they would do artwork
[52:04] on skulls after they would die. And a
[52:06] few of them do strongly resemble the
[52:08] condol.
[52:10] >> And is that condol is that anywhere else
[52:13] down there? Is it aware of?
[52:16] >> Not that I've seen.
[52:16] >> Can I see that again, please? The
[52:18] candalabra, cuz uh the family tree
[52:22] thing, it's like is it the same
[52:26] configuration on the Easter Island
[52:28] heads? Um or is it similar? The uh it's
[52:33] it's not identical, but it's really
[52:35] what? Look for uh Easter Island modified
[52:38] skull, Jamie, and that'll probably pull
[52:39] up the uh it'll be a paper. I doubt
[52:41] you'll find it. Uh,
[52:44] I doubt you'll find it in the images
[52:46] section, but if you click all, there
[52:48] should be a paper that the um, yeah,
[52:51] maybe you have to go to Google Scholar
[52:53] to find it. I apologize, but uh,
[52:55] >> it's okay.
[52:57] >> Yeah, they've there is there's artwork
[52:59] on these things and a handful of them
[53:01] that is uh,
[53:03] >> I'll find something here.
[53:05] >> There's artwork on a few on two of them
[53:07] in particular that's got that that same
[53:09] fork symbol. And one of them they they
[53:12] call a bird that a bird man. There we
[53:14] go. Bam. There's the bird man.
[53:17] >> And then they're on the same page. You
[53:18] should see. Good job, Jamie. You're a
[53:19] [ __ ] pimp. See, they did a bunch of
[53:22] art on these skulls, but two of them
[53:24] have that same symbol.
[53:28] Do they show that here?
[53:29] >> They're right there.
[53:33] >> It's got that thing similar.
[53:35] >> Super similar.
[53:36] >> Yeah. They're not identical for sure,
[53:38] but it's it does have the same three
[53:41] things forking together to make.
[53:42] >> So, it's just a theory that that's the
[53:44] tree of life
[53:46] >> or that the family tree rather.
[53:47] >> Yeah. No, that's totally again that that
[53:50] the family tree thing is completely uh
[53:53] completely my thing. Um I'm way
[53:56] >> this one represents a penis entering a
[53:58] vulva
[53:58] >> right in the back of his head.
[54:00] >> He drew it on his head. That guy was
[54:01] like the earliest bad tattoo art ever.
[54:05] Maybe they were honoring person's
[54:06] ability to deep throat
[54:08] >> this far back.
[54:09] >> [ __ ] gave you skull. You knew it.
[54:12] >> X marks the spot.
[54:14] >> But yeah, again I the this the imagery
[54:16] and stuff. I can't be 100%. All right. I
[54:18] mean, you can never be 100% of this
[54:20] stuff. But the genetic
[54:23] those wormian bones I showed you on the
[54:24] back, they call them Inca bones for a
[54:26] reason because they show up in the Inca.
[54:28] They the Incas have a higher the South
[54:30] American and Peru, they have a higher
[54:32] instance of cleft pallets. They have a
[54:33] higher instance of polyactyl. They have
[54:35] just pick your [ __ ] thing that's in
[54:37] line with all this and it it happens
[54:38] more there than it does almost anywhere
[54:40] else in the world. And then when you see
[54:42] everything else, the elongated skulls
[54:44] that frankly beggared belief um imagery
[54:48] and stuff that seems to the way that
[54:51] they praised genetic deformations. It
[54:54] seems almost unthinkable they wouldn't
[54:57] be trying to imagine if everybody in
[54:59] your society praised kids that were
[55:00] looked a certain way. Wouldn't you
[55:02] necess I mean wouldn't some people want
[55:03] to have kids that look that way?
[55:05] >> Right. And there was probably some
[55:06] benefit that also came with that.
[55:08] >> Exactly. I mean again an intellect
[55:10] >> they went well something
[55:12] >> even if it was just a social even the
[55:14] kid could be think about this one person
[55:17] born with those weird teeth and a cleft
[55:19] pallet that's also a little Einsteiny.
[55:21] Oh it takes one from every now on it's
[55:23] like you this guy looks like Einstein.
[55:26] >> Right. Right. He's cool. This episode is
[55:28] brought to you by Better Help. Sometimes
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[56:52] That's like when people in the uh 1400s
[56:56] were getting syphilis and they all
[56:57] started wearing the big wigs.
[56:58] >> Exactly. Exactly.
[57:00] >> It just took that one royal family with
[57:03] syphilis to wear wigs and everybody's
[57:04] like got to wear a wig.
[57:06] >> That's that isn't that it's got to we
[57:09] follow these trends, right? It's it's
[57:11] people are weird that way, but here we
[57:12] are.
[57:13] >> That's a weird one. that the the the the
[57:16] higher classification of a person who is
[57:19] born with other human DNA that's given
[57:22] them specific traits. But the thing
[57:25] about the monsterat stuff and that
[57:27] doesn't seem like a human the if the if
[57:30] that's real the three fingers and the
[57:32] three toes and don't they have extra
[57:35] ribs?
[57:35] >> Yeah,
[57:36] >> something like that or extra vertebrae
[57:38] >> that
[57:38] >> the size of the head. The whole thing
[57:40] looks so weird. You're like, "Okay, is
[57:43] if this really has been carbon dated to
[57:45] 12,200 years ago, if that's legit, what
[57:48] is that?" Because that I don't think
[57:50] that 1,200 years ago people were capable
[57:52] of recreating something like that that's
[57:54] going to survive at a CAT scan.
[57:56] >> Why would you do the kind of work that
[57:59] they did that you can only see from a
[58:00] CAT scan? Because the entire outside of
[58:03] it is covered. Yeah.
[58:04] >> Right. It's got the the the white clay
[58:07] and it's all mummified and there's
[58:09] tissue that's mummified.
[58:11] Yeah. How? No, that's I
[58:13] >> How the [ __ ] did you do that?
[58:14] >> That's a very that's I mean that's
[58:15] that's a good point. And again that uh
[58:20] the the one gene that's responsible for
[58:22] polyactyli when they they uh in mice
[58:26] when they introduced it to the the GLI3
[58:30] variant that happens in Denise and
[58:32] Neanderthal in mice caused extra ribs,
[58:34] extra vertebrae, skull misshapen, dental
[58:37] morphology [ __ ] up, and sometimes
[58:40] extra fingers. Sometimes good extra
[58:41] fingers, sometimes bad extra fingers.
[58:43] >> Did the mice figure out how to get out
[58:44] of the cage? I don't think so.
[58:46] >> They start get really smart. You start
[58:48] leaving notes.
[58:49] >> Pink scratch notes in the window. Let me
[58:51] out.
[58:52] >> Pinky, today we conquer the world.
[58:55] >> Well, do you think the Smithsonian has
[58:58] had giant bones?
[59:01] >> Yes. I not only that, but this is funny.
[59:03] When I was here last time, I would have
[59:04] I would have told you. I don't think so.
[59:06] I mean, maybe 6'5, but I've done a lot
[59:09] of research in it since then. [ __ ]
[59:11] Okay. One dude who I'm sure I'll get his
[59:13] name wrong. His name was Als Hyda. He
[59:15] was a guy from Hungary who was a medical
[59:18] doctor. He had this theory that's a lot
[59:21] like uh the same theory of frenology
[59:24] like uh Leonardo DiCaprio poking on the
[59:26] back of the skull. Boy, that makes you
[59:27] docel.
[59:28] >> Um except for it was all-encompassing
[59:31] with the skeleton. He believed that you
[59:32] could do it with arms and bone arm bones
[59:34] and leg bones and all of it.
[59:36] >> So he left medical science to become an
[59:40] anthropologist to push that narrative.
[59:42] He [ __ ] said it point blank. And then
[59:44] he goes out and says, "Oh, all these
[59:46] Indian bones that you guys have that are
[59:48] bigger than white people bones." Didn't
[59:51] happen. This guy's got a vested interest
[59:54] in proving that white people are
[59:56] superior. And that he believes that you
[59:58] prove this by the skeletons. And he
[60:00] comes out and debunks all the giant
[60:01] bones. And the way he did it, he's like,
[60:03] "Oh, see these bones? These aren't giant
[60:04] bones." It's like, "Dude, that's Yeah.
[60:06] When I get pulled over by the cop, I
[60:07] pull out the I don't have any drugs on
[60:09] me, officer. See, these are cigarettes."
[60:10] What year was this again?
[60:12] >> Uh 1930s.
[60:13] >> And there are there images of these
[60:15] bones this guy's displaying?
[60:18] >> Very very little. It's almost all of
[60:19] this has just been scrubbed. It's So
[60:21] what was he saying those bones were?
[60:23] >> He was just saying that he said that
[60:25] people mis mismeasured them. This is
[60:27] where it gets really really ugly. It's
[60:30] he accuses people. Some of these guys
[60:32] were really good at their job and he'll
[60:34] accuse them of mismeasuring them and not
[60:35] knowing how to properly apply a tape
[60:38] measure. And the worst example of this
[60:40] in 1959, 20 years after this dude's done
[60:43] this, one of the dude in charge of the
[60:45] department of the humanities at the
[60:46] Carnegie Museum, Dr. Don Doo, dug up in
[60:49] one of these Adena mounds a a skeleton
[60:52] and he says according to the inground
[60:55] measurements, this indicates an
[60:56] individual that in life would have been
[60:58] 7 foot 3 in tall.
[61:01] They debunk it by saying, well, this is
[61:02] just an ingground measurement. This is
[61:04] just it's it has he didn't do any other
[61:07] uh any other work with it or anything.
[61:08] It's like the man flat out said it
[61:10] indicates he was is 1959 15 years after
[61:13] they had all the mathematical formula
[61:15] for doing skeletons. This guy they threw
[61:18] him straight under the [ __ ] bus to
[61:19] debunk that skeleton that you can't find
[61:21] anywhere because they won't show it to
[61:23] you. So it it's like and this was in 59
[61:26] again and and a guy in charge of a big
[61:28] department of the Carnegie Museum, not
[61:30] Dan digging in the backyard. So
[61:32] >> is there a chain of custody of that
[61:35] skeleton? Like can that be traced?
[61:37] >> Un all the way to the Carnegie Museum
[61:40] where we don't know what happened to it
[61:41] now. This is this is a consistent issue
[61:44] with these remains. If it's a giant bone
[61:47] or an elongated skull and you want to
[61:49] know more about it, real good chance
[61:50] you're not going to be able to find
[61:52] anything. So what do you think was going
[61:55] on? Do you think there was a completely
[61:57] different species of enormous people?
[62:00] >> Maybe. or maybe even just some of us
[62:02] that had the different just some some
[62:04] different DNA in us than somebody else,
[62:06] you know, just a little bit of, you
[62:07] know, I mean, honestly,
[62:08] >> the six finger, six toe thing
[62:11] >> keeps coming up.
[62:12] >> Yeah, that's um again, you know, we get
[62:14] that now with just a little bit in
[62:15] Neanderthal DNA, right? So, you get
[62:18] different species that had more Denisven
[62:20] in them than us and still technically
[62:22] might be the same species, but not
[62:24] >> Do you think it's possible that these
[62:26] giants were Denos Denosovvens?
[62:29] It's possible
[62:30] >> because Dennis Hovvens were a lot larger
[62:31] than us, right?
[62:32] >> Yeah. At least six inches, I say. Yeah.
[62:34] >> And if you had a big one, like there's
[62:36] Shaq, right? And there's me, you know
[62:39] what I mean? Like if you have a really
[62:41] big one, like isn't it possible that
[62:43] there's a range of even those things?
[62:46] Like we only have a couple bones, right?
[62:49] And I think there's something that just
[62:51] came out from China about Homo
[62:54] Juluencis,
[62:56] you know, that they think it might be
[62:58] Dennis Oven that it might be the same
[63:00] thing, right?
[63:01] >> Yeah. Dragon Man, the same thing. That's
[63:03] been out for a little bit now. But yeah,
[63:04] they're
[63:05] >> there was something that was like super
[63:06] recent where they were proposing cuz I
[63:08] think they're trying to figure out what
[63:10] what we're talking about, but we were
[63:12] talking about it from just a couple of
[63:13] bones. There's not a lot of It's not
[63:15] like they had a whole graveyard filled
[63:17] of Denosovvens with various heights and
[63:19] weights and they can get an estimation
[63:20] of like what the medium was.
[63:22] >> Oh yeah. The vast majority of what we
[63:24] know about them comes from DNA,
[63:25] >> right?
[63:26] >> Vast majority.
[63:27] >> Yeah. So we have a few bones.
[63:29] >> Yeah.
[63:30] >> But then it's like how big how big were
[63:33] they? Like is this a 12 foot tall
[63:35] person? Is that real?
[63:36] >> They Well,
[63:37] >> there's five foot tall people and
[63:38] there's nine foot tall people. Exactly.
[63:39] >> What's the tallest person today? Like 8
[63:41] foot
[63:43] >> alive now? I'm not sure, but like Robert
[63:44] Wadllo was like,
[63:45] >> but he he had like a real problem.
[63:47] >> Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[63:47] >> Yeah. Giant gigantism. That's like a a
[63:50] tumor on the pituitary gland.
[63:52] >> Yeah. You just keep on growing.
[63:53] >> Yeah.
[63:53] >> Um but I think that just for just an
[63:56] outsized enormous person, I think the
[63:59] record today is like, okay, 8 foot 2.8
[64:02] in in 2011. Yo, Sultan Cosen of Turkey.
[64:08] Okay,
[64:09] come on, man. Guy lives in Turkey, which
[64:12] is like the one of the oldest DNAs in
[64:14] the world. Where golet tap is how is
[64:16] this guy a giant?
[64:18] >> Holy crap.
[64:19] >> The size of that guy.
[64:21] >> Holy.
[64:21] >> What does he look like when he's
[64:22] standing up? Put him over there. Okay.
[64:25] And he doesn't even look like he has
[64:27] gigantism.
[64:29] >> Does he?
[64:30] >> I don't know.
[64:31] >> He just looks like a giant dude. He
[64:33] doesn't have like a misshaped head or
[64:34] anything like that.
[64:38] Um, either way,
[64:40] >> pretty impressive.
[64:41] >> Now imagine
[64:43] is that is that a gene thing? Like is
[64:45] that is that capable of being
[64:48] is that old? Is that some old DNA from
[64:52] some other kind of human or is that just
[64:55] a really big person?
[64:57] >> That's a different guy right here.
[64:59] >> That's a different guy. That's a guy in
[65:00] China, right?
[65:00] >> I think so.
[65:02] >> And these six finger, six toes once. Is
[65:04] that ubiquitous? Is that does that occur
[65:07] in all of the reports of these bodies?
[65:09] >> No, it doesn't. Um, some of them have uh
[65:11] the two rows of teeth. Some of them have
[65:13] six six fingers and six toes. What is
[65:16] like I got pretty skeptical about
[65:18] because there's a lot of giant reports
[65:19] in America where people were digging up
[65:21] mounds. And so I got kind of skeptical
[65:22] about who I was taking it from like you
[65:25] know Joe Farmer. I just was like okay,
[65:27] you know, maybe not. But if the guy was
[65:29] like some of these guys were really good
[65:30] at at what they did and they say they
[65:32] recorded something and it was so there's
[65:35] probably a dozen solid accounts that are
[65:37] from people that weren't [ __ ]
[65:39] artists that had more to lose than they
[65:41] did to gain and some of them were two of
[65:43] them in particular are like good
[65:46] scientists like well-known
[65:48] anthropologists respected in their field
[65:50] and they were finding giant bones and
[65:52] even today like that guy that I told you
[65:53] about Dr. Dandre goo there is a an
[65:56] anthropologist right now that her like
[65:58] two or three years ago she debunked his
[65:59] work by claiming that he just did an
[66:02] ingground measurement and that was it.
[66:03] And it's like he clearly said this
[66:06] indicates an individual that was this
[66:07] tall in life. It's like I did a
[66:09] measurement on this and it indicates
[66:10] that's clearly telling you I didn't just
[66:12] take a dead measurement and they just
[66:14] throw his ass right under the [ __ ]
[66:15] bus in order to keep this narrative
[66:17] going. And that's where it's weird to me
[66:19] because I don't think Flint Dibble and
[66:22] all of his friends give two shits about
[66:25] the giant narrative like Rockefeller
[66:27] does. I think it's way more of an ego
[66:30] thing with them because archaeology is
[66:32] not a [ __ ] science, Joe. Not even
[66:34] close. It functions like a science like
[66:36] religion does. So these guys, they all
[66:38] know it. They know they're laring as
[66:40] scientists. They know that when they
[66:41] call us science deniers, they're full of
[66:43] [ __ ] So they just have the only thing
[66:44] they can do is puff their chest because
[66:46] >> well some of it is science right?
[66:47] >> Well some sure some of it is but let me
[66:49] let me put it to you like this.
[66:49] >> So why why are you saying
[66:51] >> archaeology is a study of human culture
[66:53] by material remains. Okay now science
[66:57] the cornerstone of science is
[66:58] replicability. Um arguably if I combine
[67:03] hydrogen and oxygen and you combine
[67:04] hydrogen we should get the same thing.
[67:06] Now, if I dig up something in my
[67:08] backyard,
[67:10] can you replicate that? Or are you
[67:12] beholding to what if Joseph Smith digs
[67:14] up gold plates and I dig up an
[67:17] arrowhead? You believe one and not the
[67:18] other,
[67:19] >> right? But you can put protocols in
[67:20] place where you have a bunch of people
[67:22] that are all responsible for making sure
[67:24] that everything goes according to plan
[67:25] and they all report to someone else.
[67:28] >> But but how is it replicable? Well, it's
[67:31] not replicable, but they are exposing
[67:34] these ancient remains and they are using
[67:38] >> Well, you can use some scientific
[67:40] >> carbonating.
[67:41] >> Absolutely. They're using physics there.
[67:42] That's physics, right?
[67:44] >> Um that's that's what it really comes
[67:45] down to. Um
[67:47] >> fundamentally, archaeology cannot be
[67:51] scienced any more than theology.
[67:53] Fundamentally, a miracle, you either
[67:55] believe or you don't. I dug up something
[67:56] in my backyard. You either believe it or
[67:58] you don't. You can't replicate either
[67:59] one of these things,
[68:00] >> right? You can film people pulling
[68:02] things out of the ground. You can prove
[68:04] that it's old. You can you can but
[68:07] there's a lot of instances where like
[68:09] they're doing a construction dig in
[68:10] Mexico City and they find like stone,
[68:13] they stop construction, archaeologists
[68:15] come in. Like there's a whole chain of
[68:17] custody of where this stuff's coming
[68:19] from.
[68:19] >> Absolutely.
[68:20] >> So, isn't that kind of scientific?
[68:22] >> Kind of. I mean,
[68:24] again, okay, there's a chain of custody
[68:26] on the Epstein letters, right?
[68:29] >> Right. But at point it falls apart
[68:31] because of do you believe or do you not?
[68:34] That's what it really comes down to with
[68:35] archaeology is I can't replicate the
[68:38] findings. And if you can't replicate
[68:40] that, I'm not saying it's worthless,
[68:42] >> right?
[68:42] >> A historian knows better than to call
[68:44] themselves a scientist. They know it's
[68:45] not. They use scientific methods.
[68:49] A video game speedrunner, if you know
[68:51] what that is, somebody who's trying to
[68:52] like beat Super Mario Brothers, they use
[68:54] science.
[68:54] >> So you'll put an archaeologist more in
[68:56] the line of a historian.
[68:58] >> Absolutely. Well, yeah, they are. They
[69:00] >> both of them call somebody else when it
[69:03] comes time to carbon date. You know,
[69:05] it's they the the
[69:07] again the rep the the reproducibility is
[69:10] crucial. And like the argument that they
[69:12] always go to is well like well astronomy
[69:14] is not reproducible. If you have a
[69:16] supernova, you can't reproduce that.
[69:18] Well, yeah, except I have a hundred
[69:19] telescopes all trained on it. So this
[69:21] guy's data set and that guy's data set
[69:23] j. It's been reproduced. If I've got one
[69:27] arrowhead to dug up out of the ground,
[69:29] we either believe that this dude dug up
[69:31] the arrow head out of the ground or we
[69:32] don't. And this especially matters when
[69:34] it becomes to these unique one-off
[69:35] finds. Um it's one thing when it's an
[69:38] arrowhead, it's another thing altogether
[69:39] when it's the anti mechanism,
[69:41] >> right?
[69:41] >> And so this is where our archaeology
[69:43] becomes some people you could understand
[69:46] why somebody might believe the
[69:47] anti-kisser mechanism is [ __ ] And
[69:49] at that point it's this it goes directly
[69:52] what I'm saying. It's faith-based. Do
[69:54] does this does this coincide with my
[69:55] worldview or not? Which is why
[69:57] archaeology is like this huge split um
[70:01] between these people that the guys that
[70:04] are that are trying to puff their chests
[70:07] and say that it really is what they
[70:09] claim it to be. And then there's the
[70:10] people that are actually just doing good
[70:11] work and they'll be quick to tell you,
[70:13] you know, at the end of the day, our
[70:14] results aren't, you know, we do science
[70:16] where we can, but we can't say for sure
[70:19] that our results are scientific because
[70:21] we're it's a lot of guesswork at the
[70:23] end. And that becomes a problem when
[70:26] they do things like Clovis first when
[70:28] they're like, we're going to use our
[70:29] science to beat everything else off the
[70:31] table. It's not [ __ ] science, [ __ ]
[70:34] So get it out of here. And that's where
[70:36] uh yeah, the same thing like I was
[70:37] saying earlier with the co thing. You
[70:39] don't get to too many of us know what
[70:41] the scientific method is for you just to
[70:43] come in here and tell us it's something
[70:44] else. You [ __ ]
[70:45] >> Well, when Dibble was trying to deny
[70:46] that they did that, like deny that
[70:49] archaeologists will attack people that
[70:51] have evidence of something that
[70:53] contradicts their assertions.
[70:56] Like that's crazy to deny. There's so
[70:58] much history of that.
[71:01] He called it what's so funny when you
[71:03] during that debate he he tells you when
[71:05] you're pushing on him like that he goes
[71:07] well that's an example of an academic
[71:09] debate those things happen it's like
[71:10] dude okay that same guy I was telling
[71:13] you about also that racist son of [ __ ]
[71:15] with the giants
[71:17] before he believed that there were no
[71:19] people in the Americas before 3,000
[71:21] years ago and even on the Wikipedia page
[71:24] of the folsome tradition it still says
[71:26] now that any archaeologist desirous of
[71:28] successful career could not poss an
[71:30] earlier date for the peopleing of the
[71:32] Americas or him and one other dude would
[71:34] destroy their [ __ ] careers. This
[71:35] isn't the first time it's been going.
[71:38] >> It's ego.
[71:39] >> It Well, again,
[71:40] >> it's And it's men mostly, right? It's
[71:42] human men and their egos and wanting to
[71:45] be the gatekeeper of information.
[71:48] >> The authority. I'm the authority figure.
[71:50] Yeah.
[71:50] >> Oh, imagine imagine the the the shot to
[71:53] the ego it takes with to be a guy like
[71:56] Flint. study all your time and you study
[71:58] all this crap and then Graham comes
[71:59] along and he studies and he writes he
[72:01] writes a fake history and you write a
[72:03] fake history and his sells more. Oh man,
[72:06] that's just going to cry right up right
[72:08] up in his ass. And it does. They just
[72:10] don't like also that someone comes along
[72:13] and they're super obsessed with a
[72:14] subject and they're not confined by the
[72:17] academic world where they have to get
[72:20] funding to do certain studies. They have
[72:22] to get things approved. They want to get
[72:24] tenure. They have to get the approval of
[72:26] the higherups. There's all sorts of
[72:28] stuff that happens in the academic world
[72:30] that doesn't happen in the world of the
[72:32] Jimmy Corsettes and the Luke Caverns and
[72:34] these people that could just go to
[72:36] places and start filming. you know, Ben
[72:37] Van Kirkwood can just go places and
[72:39] start filming and become huge experts in
[72:42] this stuff. I mean, the the the
[72:43] information that's available about the
[72:45] Old Kingdom, about all these things,
[72:46] it's all available like anyone can read
[72:48] it if you take the time and if you
[72:50] really dive into it. And these guys have
[72:52] dove into it. And a lot of these other
[72:54] guys haven't. And that's the thing. And
[72:56] they're a little lazy. Maybe not lazy,
[72:59] but let's say this, not as obsessed. So,
[73:02] they should look at the Ben Van
[73:03] Kirkwicks as a resource.
[73:05] >> Thank you. I I've been saying this one
[73:07] for a long time, but they do the
[73:08] opposite. I give you a perfect example.
[73:10] Jimmy Corsetti two years ago on X posts.
[73:13] I wonder if the Nephilim in the Bible
[73:15] were the Denise or the Neanderthal or
[73:17] something like that. At the time, they
[73:18] didn't know Denise were taller than us.
[73:20] So all the archaeologists, oh Jimmy,
[73:22] stupid the Nephilim were supposed to be
[73:24] taller than us and both of these species
[73:26] are shorter. And I even said, I'm like,
[73:28] let's just let this go a couple days and
[73:29] I'm going to show you guys what you're
[73:30] doing wrong. And I let him go at it. And
[73:32] then I was like, okay, let's try this as
[73:33] a science communicator. Let's try it
[73:35] like this. Hey Jim, those ones are
[73:37] shorter than humans, but there are other
[73:38] species of archaic homminid like
[73:41] gigantopithecus that were taller than us
[73:43] that might fit the bill. Why don't you
[73:44] look into that and see what you find?
[73:45] You take somebody's passion, they're
[73:48] looking at the rabbit hole, you shove
[73:49] them in head first. That's science
[73:50] communication. Telling them the rabbit
[73:52] hole ain't [ __ ] there, Clover. You're
[73:54] That's being a [ __ ]
[73:55] >> Well, I also think we should all
[73:57] operate, all human beings under this
[73:59] assumption. We don't have all the
[74:02] evidence for all the humans that lived.
[74:04] We just don't we only have a tiny
[74:06] fraction. We have fossilized remains
[74:09] especially when [ __ ] gets really old.
[74:11] >> We don't have enough data.
[74:13] >> Yeah.
[74:13] >> And if you just operate on we don't have
[74:16] enough data which is pure pure. Everyone
[74:18] should agree on that. So once you have
[74:21] then say okay this is the data we have
[74:23] and this points to the fact that new
[74:27] humans are emerging that we're finding
[74:29] and we might be wrong about the number
[74:31] that existed and the potentially there
[74:34] could be a cave somewhere in Siberia or
[74:37] wherever and they find another bone and
[74:39] they go holy [ __ ] what is this one this
[74:41] is a totally different kind of person
[74:43] and now you have another one and you
[74:45] have another one and who knows how many
[74:47] of them there were and this will give us
[74:49] a richer understanding of what took
[74:50] place. And then I think Michael Buttons
[74:53] has a really good video where he's
[74:55] talking about how anatomically human
[74:58] anatomically similar humans existed a
[75:02] long time ago. Like why would we assume
[75:05] that civilization and complex thinking
[75:08] and tool making and technology only
[75:11] emerged in the last couple hundred years
[75:13] when the exact same species existed
[75:16] hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
[75:18] thousands of years ago? Isn't it
[75:20] possible that something some some human
[75:24] a long time ago had figured out some
[75:26] stuff and we have no evidence no
[75:28] evidence of it anymore because of just
[75:30] natural wear and the weathering and the
[75:33] earth absorbs things. There's nothing
[75:34] left. Yeah, that seems more logical.
[75:37] >> Yeah, I I completely agree. Yeah, I I
[75:39] love Mike. He's great. Uh Michael
[75:41] Button. Yeah, he's he's great. It was
[75:42] one of the things honestly I just to
[75:44] really quickly I've loved watching the
[75:46] last year and a half since I've been on
[75:48] here left while you just kind of went
[75:49] through my litany of friends and stuck
[75:50] them in this chair one after the [ __ ]
[75:52] other man. It's like hey that's Luke.
[75:53] Hey I know that [ __ ] I know that guy.
[75:54] Hey that was really good to see man. Um
[75:57] but
[75:58] >> fun it's a fun time. It's a fun time to
[75:59] get cool people to talk about cool [ __ ]
[76:02] >> and and and the the passion that these
[76:04] guys have like you say that's honestly
[76:06] um it's a huge thing. You know, Duncan
[76:08] gave me a really good uh really good
[76:10] compliment. Duncan Trussell saying that
[76:12] I was like that I was all passionate
[76:14] like a [ __ ] um oh, what's that guy
[76:17] that did all calculus and stuff? The old
[76:19] old school Sir Isaac Newton. And I was
[76:21] like, damn, I don't think I'm like that.
[76:22] But thank you. Probably got as many
[76:24] chemicals in my body. But um
[76:27] >> was Isaac Newton a tripper?
[76:29] >> No. No. He was a uh uh he was an
[76:31] alchemist. So he like died of mercury
[76:33] poisoning.
[76:33] >> Did he really?
[76:34] >> He This is one of the funniest things. I
[76:36] love saying this one on Twitter. I say
[76:38] it once every couple years. This way,
[76:40] the world we live in now where they'll
[76:42] take a scientist and they'll say like,
[76:43] "Yeah, but this guy's political opinions
[76:45] are all skewed. So, [ __ ] this guy." It's
[76:46] like, you know what they would have done
[76:47] with Sir Isaac? We wouldn't have the
[76:49] theory of gravity or calculus. It'd have
[76:51] been like, "Yeah, that guy denies the
[76:52] trinity and he's [ __ ] an alchemist.
[76:56] Why would I put up with this crazy guy's
[76:57] bullshit?" It's like it's
[77:00] >> Yeah. But uh yeah, it's it's it's this
[77:03] is one of the things I've actually come
[77:04] to a lot of terms with on my own little
[77:06] searching in this community is that
[77:08] >> there's a lot of people that I disagree
[77:10] with on [ __ ] 80% but that 20% that
[77:13] they're if they bring honest data to the
[77:15] table.
[77:16] >> Yeah.
[77:16] >> Like uh and my best example of this is
[77:18] goes all the way back to uh the 1880s
[77:21] Carl Christian Rafen or the 1830s even
[77:23] uh he was a anthropologist. He was he
[77:26] believed that the Norse discovered
[77:28] America before Columbus. And the reason
[77:30] he believed this was because every time
[77:32] he'd see a rock with a glyph on it, he's
[77:34] like, "Man, them dumb Indians didn't
[77:35] know how to carve no [ __ ] rocks."
[77:37] Granted, all their weapons are made out
[77:38] of stone, but anyway, they don't know
[77:40] how to make this. So, must have been a
[77:41] white guy. So, he does research,
[77:43] research, research, research, and
[77:44] eventually finds out that it was the
[77:46] Norse that be Now, he was pissing up a
[77:48] rope with his [ __ ] EV line of
[77:50] evidence, but he did honest research
[77:52] >> and he got us real data,
[77:54] >> right? So, I'm I'm finding a lot that I
[77:56] just have to like I really don't like
[77:57] you, but okay. What what do you got to
[77:59] say?
[78:00] >> This is a part of the problem with the
[78:01] Atlantis thing. And this is why guys
[78:03] like Flint always connected to racism
[78:05] because there were a group of people
[78:06] that were white supremacists that
[78:08] believe that the white race was
[78:10] responsible for Atlantis. But those
[78:12] those are not like credible historians.
[78:15] >> These are also not in the same group of
[78:17] people as Graham or you or Ben Van Kirk
[78:20] or any of these people. No one is saying
[78:22] that. So to connect people to something
[78:25] like Atlantis where there are
[78:28] problematic people that believed
[78:30] something that was racist. Just because
[78:33] you're talking about Atlantis doesn't
[78:34] mean everybody who's in investigating
[78:36] Atlantis is also problematic and racist.
[78:39] That's crazy.
[78:40] >> Well, they say, "Well, it encourages
[78:42] racism." And my I always jump with they
[78:45] go, "Well, do you see how many their
[78:46] evidence? You see how many white
[78:47] supremacists site this stuff?" And I
[78:48] always I always go well you see how many
[78:50] white supremacists cite all kinds of
[78:52] statistics poverty and crime and all
[78:54] these other things. Should we should we
[78:55] get rid of all of these statistics too?
[78:57] We should just quit gather anything that
[78:58] a white supremacist might use. Do you
[79:00] remember the Mac Tonight commercial with
[79:02] the the big the McDonald's moonman?
[79:06] >> No. Don't you remember um years ago like
[79:09] when we were kids uh in the 80s when I
[79:10] was a kid in the 80s it's the oh they
[79:13] had a big moon man guy that was singing
[79:15] a Mac the knife parody when the clock
[79:17] strikes half past 6 babe time to head
[79:20] for golden lines okay about 15 years ago
[79:23] they started using a thing with like
[79:25] some weird voice chat and this guy's and
[79:27] making racist memes does that mean that
[79:29] McDonald's is [ __ ] racist or does it
[79:31] just mean that racists will co-opt
[79:32] [ __ ] anything including Pepe the frog
[79:34] >> pepe the frog is the best example Thank
[79:36] you.
[79:36] >> That poor guy who made Pepe the Frog,
[79:39] >> please.
[79:40] >> That guy was like, "That's not me."
[79:43] >> And so, but so and that's that's exactly
[79:46] what these guys do, man. We We can't
[79:49] talk about anything without it being
[79:50] racist. It's like, dude,
[79:52] >> well, that's just a way to dismiss you.
[79:54] >> It's It's a way to drag other people in.
[79:57] Yeah.
[79:57] >> Hey, man. This guy's calling talking
[79:59] [ __ ] about the pyramids. Yeah, whatever.
[80:00] Oh, he's also racist. Oh, [ __ ] We got
[80:03] 5% of them came over. Cool. Yeah,
[80:05] >> it's Yeah, it's really pathetic. And um
[80:08] you know, in all honesty, you know, I
[80:10] get [ __ ] during the election cycles from
[80:12] friends and from fans that for not
[80:16] supporting X, Y, or Z. And I always tell
[80:18] them the same thing. Look, most the
[80:20] third or [ __ ] SI. I talk about
[80:22] ancient history, [ __ ] I'm not talking
[80:24] about modern politics. That's not what
[80:25] I'm doing. It's not And I'm certainly
[80:27] not going to endorse somebody on my
[80:28] platform. As a matter of fact, why do
[80:30] you care what Beyonce says about this
[80:31] [ __ ] Why do you care about any of these
[80:33] [ __ ] these people aren't political
[80:35] analysts? Why do you care that much? Why
[80:38] are you calling up my ass about Well,
[80:39] yeah, but you know, you've got the it
[80:42] people want
[80:44] people want us to all be towing a
[80:45] certain It's It's funny. I I swear to
[80:48] God, it's like the whole country's got
[80:49] like probably a third of us are little
[80:51] Hitlers. The whole world would be better
[80:52] if everybody just thought just like me.
[80:54] >> It's like [ __ ] Christ.
[80:55] >> And they think they're the open-minded,
[80:57] compassionate ones. It's really weird.
[80:59] But it's just the nature of the tribal
[81:01] world that we're living in right now and
[81:02] it's so divided and this is one of the
[81:05] giant problems with social media. And I
[81:07] think it's great that everyone has an
[81:08] opinion and I think it's great that
[81:10] everyone gets to express an opinion. It
[81:12] doesn't mean that you should listen. It
[81:14] doesn't mean you should absorb it. It
[81:16] doesn't mean that it's a valid opinion.
[81:19] You'll find the valid opinions, but you
[81:21] have to sort through the bad ones. And
[81:22] this is how it's always going to be.
[81:24] There's always going to be that have
[81:25] people have a take on it that you
[81:27] fiercely disagree with. the people have
[81:29] the least charitable view of this person
[81:31] or this idea or this thing, you're
[81:33] always going to have a spectrum of ideas
[81:36] and you have to allow it. That's how it
[81:38] is. And you have to counter that with a
[81:40] better perspective. That's it.
[81:43] >> And if you're coming at it from you want
[81:45] to silence and destroy everyone who
[81:47] disagrees with you, especially on
[81:49] something as complex as ancient history,
[81:52] like that seems like you're doing a bad
[81:55] thing. That seems like you're denying
[81:57] the resource of all these obsessed
[81:59] people.
[82:00] >> Yeah, it's I completely agree with you.
[82:03] As a matter of fact,
[82:04] >> if they're getting something wrong, like
[82:05] yeah, have a conversation with those
[82:07] people and explain why they're getting
[82:08] something wrong. But but be good faith
[82:11] about it. The the Society for American
[82:14] Archaeology's original bylaws. Their
[82:16] very first law was their intention was
[82:20] to cultivate a better relationship
[82:23] between interested amateurs and
[82:25] professional archaeologists and to offer
[82:27] help when requested
[82:30] to those interested amateurs. They're
[82:32] doing neither one of those things right
[82:33] now. Number one, they are pissing all
[82:35] over the relationship between people
[82:37] that are interested amateurs and the
[82:39] professional archaeologists. They can't
[82:41] even talk to each other anymore.
[82:43] >> Well, don't you think that's also a
[82:44] little bit of jealousy because these
[82:45] interested amateurs have all of a sudden
[82:48] >> come to the forefront
[82:49] >> and they're making money off of it.
[82:50] >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean found out that
[82:53] I had supporters, he lost his [ __ ] HE'S
[82:55] PEOPLE PAY HIM MONEY FOR THE OH MY
[82:57] [ __ ] GOD.
[82:59] >> Silly silly to worry about that. But
[83:00] it's like also like just YouTube
[83:02] revenue. Guys like Ben Van Kirkwick's
[83:04] videos get millions of views, you know?
[83:06] Like there's there's real money in it
[83:08] and they're not making money. No, no,
[83:10] not like that. No,
[83:11] >> they got to be pissed.
[83:12] >> It's I'm sure that's
[83:13] >> I went to school for this.
[83:15] >> But the other thing I And again, that
[83:17] bylaw, it says to offer help when
[83:19] requested to interested amateur. When's
[83:21] the last time Graham Hancock asked one
[83:22] of these [ __ ] for their opinion?
[83:24] They don't. I They just They give him
[83:26] the help whether he wants it or not.
[83:29] >> They've completely lost the plot. Even
[83:31] >> Well, it's the problem is the way they
[83:32] frame it. Like when they were talking
[83:34] about his Netflix show being one of the
[83:35] most dangerous shows on television,
[83:38] how is it dangerous to talk about
[83:40] evidence of a lost civilization? That's
[83:43] seems insane. Dude, they're their egos
[83:46] are at the for Have you ever read that
[83:48] letter from that that they wrote to
[83:49] Netflix? Okay. Do you They had three
[83:51] problems, right? And they list them one,
[83:54] two, three. Now, you would assume these
[83:56] are professional archaeologists and
[83:57] they're talking about Graham Granhawk.
[83:58] You would assume number one is he got a
[84:00] bunch of [ __ ] wrong,
[84:01] >> right?
[84:01] >> No. Number one is he talks [ __ ] about
[84:03] archaeologists and he doesn't listen to
[84:05] us. That was number one. It they
[84:07] couldn't even hide their ego in the
[84:09] [ __ ] list. It's like it's just
[84:12] >> also not true.
[84:12] >> They're petulant children. I swear to
[84:14] [ __ ] God.
[84:15] >> Also not true. Yeah,
[84:15] >> he listens.
[84:16] >> Oh, dude. He puts them on the difference
[84:20] with the guy. If you're going to come in
[84:22] and just poo poo everything and say,
[84:23] "No, that's not true. No, that's not
[84:25] true. No, that's not true." Well, then
[84:26] yeah, you're not going to um you're he
[84:29] I'm not going to put up with that [ __ ]
[84:30] you guys have an actual conversation
[84:32] with me. Sure. But if you're just
[84:33] >> What were the other two problems?
[84:35] >> The other two problems, one was that he
[84:36] was wrong. Well, the other one was that
[84:37] it promotes white supremacy.
[84:41] And and the the the best part about that
[84:43] is they say because this this theory
[84:46] that the exact wording is this theory
[84:47] dates to 1882 and Ignatius Donnelly blah
[84:50] blah blah. Ignatius Donnelly was a left.
[84:54] He was liberal as [ __ ] He was a
[84:56] feminist and an abolitionist, but he was
[84:58] also a white dude in the 1800s. He's
[85:00] racist as [ __ ] by modern standards,
[85:01] right? Just like all the archaeologists
[85:03] were back then. But they don't don't
[85:04] bother with that. They pick him and they
[85:07] say, "This guy's the one that started
[85:08] the problem. He's the one that created
[85:10] this theory." But you go back 20 years
[85:12] and Augustus Leon and uh some other dude
[85:16] I lose his name right now, but there
[85:18] were two French Americans that believed
[85:20] that the Maya had con were the
[85:22] Atlanteanss, that the Amaya had
[85:24] conquered the world, that the Maya were
[85:25] the master race if you're going to look
[85:27] at it that way. But they're going to
[85:28] ignore that when they submit this stuff
[85:31] to Netflix because it doesn't just they
[85:34] wanted to make it sound like this entire
[85:35] [ __ ] was created to support white
[85:37] supremacy when it was actually not. But
[85:39] they So my my but my point here is in a
[85:43] debate where it constantly revolves
[85:45] around you guys are lying about our
[85:47] past. They lie about what happened 15
[85:49] [ __ ] minutes ago on the internet
[85:50] where we can all see it and then they
[85:51] wonder why we are like ha you guys do
[85:54] lie about the [ __ ] boneheads. Sorry.
[85:57] So this this guy, what was his theory?
[85:59] The first guy that is problematic even
[86:01] though he's a liberal and a feminist.
[86:02] >> Oh well, he believed that it was white
[86:05] suprem
[86:06] uh the three biblical races. Um if
[86:09] you're not aware of that, like Noah's
[86:11] three kids, um Sam is the Seemetic race,
[86:15] the Hamite race was the Africans, and
[86:17] then the other one ended up being the
[86:19] the Aryans was the white people. Um and
[86:23] uh these three biblical races have
[86:25] biblical racism they call it. It's been
[86:27] like a thing for a thousand years. But
[86:30] uh he he just clung to that idea that it
[86:32] was basically these races of of after
[86:34] post Noah and all this. So like uh do
[86:37] you know the story with Noah? Like he
[86:38] got drunk afterwards?
[86:39] >> No.
[86:40] >> Oh, could you you might want to pull
[86:42] this up, Judy. After it's all done, Noah
[86:44] gets all drunk and he's like laying
[86:46] around naked and one of his sons laughs
[86:48] at him and one one of them doesn't. So
[86:50] like he curses the lowest of them and he
[86:53] praises the highest. And when you see
[86:55] the bib the Bible verse, he was like,
[86:56] "You're going to be the servants to this
[86:58] one and he can sleep in your tent
[86:59] whenever he wants." And you could see
[87:00] why this was used to promote uh racial
[87:04] superiority.
[87:06] >> But uh it's
[87:09] that's where it came from. So if they
[87:11] really wanted to, they could have been
[87:12] saying the Bible created racism and that
[87:14] was a problem. But it's also very silly
[87:18] to connect the idea of ancient
[87:20] civilizations to one person. That's so
[87:23] silly.
[87:23] >> So silly.
[87:24] >> That's so silly when you're talking
[87:25] about evidence all over the world. We're
[87:28] talking about Balach. We're talking
[87:30] about the Maya. We're talking about the
[87:32] Egyptians. We're talking about all over
[87:34] the world. And you're going to connect
[87:36] it to white supremacy. Isn't it more
[87:38] plausible that we don't know what
[87:41] happened
[87:41] >> just a little bit? I mean, but you got
[87:44] to understand these guys are the ones
[87:45] that follow. Like I I I break your rules
[87:48] some and I argue with the people in the
[87:49] trenches, right? And the guys that
[87:51] follow Flint Dibble, they'll all the
[87:53] time they'll make fun of you. You
[87:54] believe in lost civilizations? And my
[87:55] answer is, do you think we found every
[87:57] civilization? Oh, no. So, you're just
[87:59] throwing around stupid [ __ ] just talking
[88:01] crap.
[88:02] >> The idea that there'd be evidence left
[88:04] over other than the stuff that we've
[88:06] already found. Like, what are you
[88:07] looking for that's 100,000 years old? It
[88:10] doesn't mean that there wasn't something
[88:12] going on 100,000 years ago. It seems
[88:14] like there was definitely something
[88:15] going on at least 12,000 years ago. So
[88:18] that [ __ ] up our whole timeline.
[88:20] >> Oh yeah.
[88:20] >> And they want to still attribute that to
[88:22] hunter gatherers just for convenience.
[88:25] The idea that the gobe structures were
[88:28] made by hunter gatherers. Like why would
[88:29] they do that?
[88:31] >> Yeah. How did they do that? How come
[88:33] they didn't make houses but they made
[88:35] that stuff? How come?
[88:37] >> Yeah. Well, it's it's that's a tough
[88:39] one, man. You know, uh
[88:40] >> what were their tools?
[88:41] >> They're looking at uh you know, car on
[88:43] Teepe. They're actually talking about
[88:44] covering that again, like they did at
[88:46] Gobecley, which is [ __ ] I don't know
[88:47] if you know Megalithania, Hugh Newman.
[88:50] Um he's um he he's he's there not a lot
[88:53] of people that I would would mention on
[88:54] your show, but he's definitely one of
[88:55] them. He's he's he's a badass. He's been
[88:58] doing this forever. And uh he's doing
[89:00] all this arc astronomy work out there at
[89:02] Kanepe, and they're covering they're
[89:04] getting ready to cover it. and he's just
[89:05] going, "Uh, uh,
[89:06] >> why are they covering it?"
[89:08] >> Well, they're claiming it's to for
[89:10] tourism to protect the site and all
[89:11] this. This
[89:12] >> what do you think it is?
[89:13] >> I don't know. It might that might well
[89:15] be it. Um, I do know that.
[89:17] >> How does it protect the site, though? If
[89:18] you don't own it, I don't know.
[89:20] >> But it's stone, right?
[89:22] >> Yeah. I mean, honestly,
[89:25] honestly, it it gets weird when you look
[89:27] at the third world because or poorer
[89:29] countries like that because, you know,
[89:31] my iPhone could feed a family over there
[89:32] for a month. So, it's like these guys
[89:35] are going to do they've got a different
[89:36] set of priorities than us,
[89:37] >> right?
[89:38] >> So, um,
[89:39] >> but wouldn't you think that more things
[89:41] getting exposed would equal more
[89:43] tourism, which would equal more revenue?
[89:45] >> Yes and no. Um, and I did a video a
[89:48] while back about Zahi Has being a heel,
[89:50] like a wrestling heel. Uh, deliberate,
[89:53] dude. I'm 100% on this.
[89:55] >> Really?
[89:56] >> Oh, yeah. I'm not saying that he doesn't
[89:58] do shady [ __ ] I'm saying that he plays
[90:00] the villain. Um, I give you some
[90:03] examples. There's a a clip of him after
[90:06] shortly after Arab Spring. He's talking
[90:08] about how to increase tourism. He has
[90:10] two things is one, you don't want
[90:12] tourists from any old country. You want
[90:14] Japanese, Americans, Chinese, Germans.
[90:16] You don't want the rest. You want people
[90:18] to come in and change your world. Second
[90:20] thing is doesn't matter what's happening
[90:22] in Egypt. Those new age people, they
[90:25] come. Doesn't matter if it's Arab
[90:28] Spring. Doesn't matter if tourism is
[90:29] down by 40%. Those new age people, they
[90:32] come. He's So then, did I find
[90:36] something? Yes, I found it. No, I
[90:37] didn't. No, I didn't. Yes, I did. Yes, I
[90:38] did. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. Yes, I
[90:40] did. It's you're Come and investigate.
[90:44] Come and investigate. Come and look.
[90:45] Come and see for yourself. Come and pop
[90:47] into those little holes and look for
[90:48] yourself. Go look at the place that I
[90:50] told you there was nothing. I think
[90:51] honestly that's his whole reason that
[90:54] he's playing it to the hilt. And I think
[90:55] Lee Clair's doing the same thing right
[90:57] now. If you watch Lee Claire on
[90:58] >> I don't know who that is.
[90:59] >> Lee Clair is the archaeologist in charge
[91:01] of Gobeclay. He's a big big dude down
[91:03] there. And if you look at him on
[91:05] Twitter, he's doing the exact same
[91:06] thing. He's constantly arguing. He's
[91:08] picking at Jimmy. I actually block the
[91:10] guy. I don't block many scientists, but
[91:12] I that aren't constantly antagonistic
[91:14] towards me. He was every day I'd wake up
[91:16] and more talking [ __ ] about me, just
[91:19] pissing everybody off. And the whole
[91:21] point um in my opinion is to make it
[91:23] where people want to come and look at
[91:25] what you're h if something's being
[91:26] hidden. You have to have a villain
[91:27] hiding it, right? Give me a touchstone.
[91:29] So, what the [ __ ] is Zahi Hawai think
[91:31] about what is Zahi Hawas hiding? Is that
[91:34] a crazy statement to make? No, it's not.
[91:36] And I think he cultivated that. I think
[91:37] that's an image that he made to increase
[91:40] tourist revenue.
[91:41] >> So, you think he created this character
[91:44] to make it so that people want to combat
[91:47] against him and then go there and see
[91:49] and look around,
[91:50] >> spend money? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I I
[91:53] don't think that's the whole the whole
[91:55] >> I think you went a little too tinfoil. I
[91:57] think it's a little more simple than
[91:58] that. Yeah. I think he's been in control
[92:00] of the narrative there for a long time.
[92:02] And there's also some weird stuff with
[92:04] things missing.
[92:05] >> Oh, no. I'm not saying that he didn't
[92:06] steal stuff.
[92:07] >> The weird stuff with things missing.
[92:08] It's like you would want to really
[92:10] control the narrative. If like skeletons
[92:12] that you reported discovering, then you
[92:15] say there's no skeletons, right? Isn't
[92:17] there one of those in one of the
[92:18] sarcophaguses?
[92:20] >> Yeah, Jimmy was hammering away at that
[92:22] one. There was an original story from
[92:24] like the 80s
[92:26] >> that they found the skeleton
[92:27] >> and they just no no skeleton.
[92:29] >> And the problem is what we were talking
[92:31] about before that there are wealthy
[92:32] people that will pay you an enormous
[92:34] amount of money for the skeleton. So if
[92:36] you got some dude, you know, he's got
[92:38] Saudi Arabian money and he's like, you
[92:40] know what would be dope? I want a
[92:42] [ __ ] Egyptian mummy in my house, you
[92:45] know? And people had them. I mean, this
[92:46] was a thing that people were eating
[92:48] them. Yes. Yes. Yes.
[92:50] >> God.
[92:51] >> What? told Danny Jones that he's LIKE,
[92:53] "WHAT THE [ __ ] PULL THAT UP NOW."
[92:55] >> YEAH. People would have these mummy
[92:58] unwrapping parties at their homes, these
[93:01] very wealthy people, and they would eat
[93:03] the mummies.
[93:04] >> Yeah. I bet you a lot of those elongated
[93:06] skulls ended up in similar
[93:08] >> I know, but like whose house? How many
[93:10] houses? Who are these people? Like, how
[93:12] does no one tell on them?
[93:13] >> I don't know. But I mean, you look at
[93:15] what you know, five years ago, I would
[93:18] have said, dude, I don't know about all
[93:19] this, man. But now you look at that
[93:21] island, you're like,
[93:22] >> "What would you do if somebody gave you
[93:24] an elongated skull? Would you give it to
[93:25] a museum?" Like, what would you do?
[93:27] Like, if somebody gave you one of those
[93:28] really dope Peruvian skulls that are
[93:30] crazy without the sagittal suture,
[93:33] you're looking at the enormous brain
[93:34] capacity, the size of the head, like
[93:36] what the the size of the eye sockets.
[93:38] >> I had scientists after scientist finger
[93:40] [ __ ] that thing till we got
[93:41] somewhere,
[93:41] >> right? But would you bring it somewhere
[93:44] where other people could see it? Would
[93:46] you allow the scientists to take control
[93:48] of it and to take hold of it?
[93:51] >> Because this is my friend John Reeves up
[93:53] in Alaska. You know, he's had some real
[93:55] issues with that.
[93:55] >> Yeah.
[93:56] >> Where they'll take bones and then
[93:57] they'll go up. Nope. Never getting them
[93:59] back.
[93:59] >> Yeah. No. Up in the bottom of the
[94:01] harbor.
[94:02] >> Yeah. And he won't But this is before
[94:03] his time. But yeah, they did that. Was
[94:05] that the American Museum of Natural
[94:07] History? Is that it?
[94:09] >> So the the thing he does now is like if
[94:12] you want to do work on these bones, you
[94:13] got to come to Alaska.
[94:14] >> Yeah. And he built the whole scientific
[94:16] research building. And
[94:18] >> well, it makes sense.
[94:19] >> Yeah. He's like, I don't trust any of
[94:20] you [ __ ]
[94:22] >> You know where the Baghdad battery is
[94:23] right now, don't you?
[94:24] >> Where?
[94:24] >> Nobody knows. It was grabbed by Alphabet
[94:26] Boys at the beginning of the 2000s. When
[94:29] we
[94:29] >> Which alphabet boys?
[94:30] >> Ours.
[94:31] >> But which one?
[94:33] >> I'm not sure.
[94:34] >> Might be one we don't even know about.
[94:35] >> All I know is it I'm just gonna say I
[94:38] doubt that the soldier that went in
[94:39] there had decided he wanted that thing
[94:41] for himself.
[94:41] >> Right. Uh, but I speaking of the bad dab
[94:44] battery, I got a cool little theory on
[94:45] that. I don't know if you ever seen
[94:46] that, but uh I don't think it was for
[94:48] electricity. I think it was to separate
[94:49] metal. If you were to use for the
[94:52] electrolyte, if you were to take mine
[94:54] runoff that had like gold and silver and
[94:56] copper and iron and nickel and magnum,
[94:58] all that [ __ ] You put it in that
[95:00] that thing. After a while, that exact
[95:02] cell that we had, the copper would build
[95:04] would have a buildup of gold, copper,
[95:06] and silver. All the other [ __ ] would go
[95:08] to the bottom. M.
[95:10] >> So you could it would I think it was a
[95:11] way for them to like
[95:13] >> separate
[95:13] >> and and I think that the discovery of
[95:15] this would be super easy. Drop a copper
[95:17] coin and a metal nail into a puddle of
[95:19] that and come back in two days and
[95:20] you're going to see the buildup of gold
[95:21] on that coin. And so this explains why
[95:25] inside of the thing like there's no
[95:26] residue at all which is one of the
[95:27] reasons they say it didn't happen. Well,
[95:29] they were harvesting the residue is my
[95:31] in my opinion and this is why you
[95:33] couldn't be trace amounts
[95:35] >> even if they were harvesting.
[95:36] >> Now that's where it would be nice to
[95:37] test it now. It hasn't been looked at in
[95:38] a long time, you know. It hasn't been
[95:40] been har it hasn't been tested for
[95:42] anything in a long.
[95:43] >> Where is it that it's gone? It's in
[95:45] somebody it's right next to those skulls
[95:47] and those mummies. It's on some dude's
[95:48] shelf. That will
[95:49] >> really
[95:49] >> Yes. This is a picture of a street mummy
[95:52] seller in 1875.
[95:53] >> Jesus Christ.
[95:55] >> So this article in the Big Think was
[95:57] saying that this was so popular from
[95:59] 1200 to about 18 or sorry the 12th
[96:01] century to 18th century
[96:03] >> that they kind of ran out of mummies.
[96:06] >> Yeah. Yo,
[96:07] >> and can you imagine you could fly over
[96:09] there and pick up a mummy?
[96:10] >> Well, that's before these parties were
[96:11] even happening
[96:13] in the corner over there.
[96:14] >> No, they thought it was medicine.
[96:16] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[96:17] >> We talked about this once before, but
[96:18] there's these
[96:19] >> This [ __ ] exists all over the place.
[96:22] >> And I wonder if any of them would have
[96:23] been better than Kufus. What? Lot 99
[96:26] Apothecary Antiques.
[96:28] >> Right up there in the upper left. Yeah.
[96:30] >> What?
[96:32] >> Look at that. Apothecary. So, this is
[96:34] like medicine mia. So it's like mummy
[96:37] juice.
[96:38] >> This article gets [ __ ] gross.
[96:40] >> Mummy powder. You sprinkle it on your
[96:42] steak.
[96:42] >> So they there were so they were so
[96:44] popular for a long time. They
[96:45] disappeared kind of. It was hard to get
[96:47] them. So they started forging
[96:50] >> mummy bodies.
[96:51] >> Oh my god.
[96:53] >> How dark is it that people bought all
[96:55] the dead bodies?
[96:57] >> Not all doctors thought dry old mummies
[96:59] made the best medicine. Some doctors
[97:00] believe that fresh meat and blood had a
[97:02] vitality the long dead lacked. Those
[97:04] guys went to the island.
[97:05] >> Napoleon was bringing them back and then
[97:07] they would have some parties, quote
[97:08] unquote parties, but that was just still
[97:11] like they were doing like research
[97:12] almost if you could say like some
[97:14] medicine research and then that didn't
[97:15] last. That was like 30 years of that and
[97:17] then they just started having actual
[97:19] parties to show how rich you that you
[97:22] hold up. Pause right here. 1834 the
[97:25] surgeon Thomas Pedigrew unwrapped a
[97:27] mummy at the Royal College of Surgeons.
[97:29] In his time, autopsies and operations
[97:31] took place in public. In this unwrapping
[97:33] was just another public medical event.
[97:36] Soon a soon even the pretense of medical
[97:38] research was lost. By now mummies were
[97:40] no longer medicinal but thrilling. A
[97:43] dinner host who can entertain an
[97:44] audience while unwrapping was rich
[97:47] enough to own an actual mummy. The
[97:49] thrill of seeing dried flesh and bones
[97:51] appearing as bandages came off meant
[97:54] people flocked to these unwrappings.
[97:56] Whether in a private home or the theater
[97:58] of a learned society. strong drink meant
[98:02] audiences were loud and appreciative.
[98:04] >> And then at some point they tried to say
[98:06] that you were getting cursed by doing
[98:08] this.
[98:08] >> Oh yeah, for sure.
[98:09] >> But didn't the people that filed two in
[98:12] commons to him? Didn't they all die?
[98:13] >> That's what this comes up with next two
[98:14] in common.
[98:16] >> Yeah.
[98:16] >> Sudden death of Lord
[98:18] >> Arnaron. Mhm.
[98:21] >> Well, I mean,
[98:22] >> you can understand why people would
[98:24] think that, too. I mean, you're going
[98:25] around and not just defiling the grave,
[98:27] man. You eat the [ __ ] Come on.
[98:30] >> So, it might there might be something to
[98:32] a curse like that.
[98:33] >> Oh, yeah. I
[98:34] >> especially if you believe it. That's the
[98:36] problem. That's how I think voodoo
[98:39] really works. If you really believe that
[98:41] someone could put a hex on you, you're
[98:42] like, "Oh, no."
[98:43] >> I was joking with this hippie girl in
[98:45] Sedona about that. She was telling me
[98:47] about
[98:48] >> practical magic.
[98:49] >> Look at this. Today, the black market of
[98:51] antiquity smuggling, including mummies,
[98:54] is worth about $3 billion.
[98:58] So today,
[98:59] >> the black market right now, 3 billion a
[99:02] year.
[99:03] >> A year?
[99:04] >> Is that a year?
[99:05] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[99:06] >> That's a lot.
[99:07] >> Yeah. That's a fortune. That's a
[99:08] fortune.
[99:09] >> And just in [ __ ] that should be in a
[99:11] museum.
[99:12] >> Three billion a year.
[99:13] >> Yeah.
[99:14] >> It just makes sense, man, when you think
[99:16] see people that are just [ __ ] insane
[99:18] and they're rich and they just want a
[99:20] thing that no one That's like the whole
[99:21] thing about like uh rhino horn,
[99:24] >> right? They want to drink rhino horn tea
[99:26] because nobody could get it because it's
[99:28] illegal.
[99:28] >> Yep.
[99:29] >> You guys were talking about the
[99:29] Rockefellers earlier and I there's a
[99:31] museum started in Jerusalem where
[99:33] they're the Rockefeller Archaeological
[99:35] Museum.
[99:36] >> They had 60,000 artifacts dating back to
[99:40] 2 million years ago.
[99:41] >> Whoa.
[99:41] >> Including a
[99:44] reported 100,000y old skeleton almost
[99:46] complete.
[99:47] >> Damn.
[99:48] >> Whoa.
[99:48] >> What happened? Uh they also had another
[99:50] one that was 6,500 years old that a
[99:53] while ago is being reported as Noah. Um
[99:57] this is where the Dead SK sea scrolls
[99:59] were for a while until they were taken
[100:00] over and then moved to a the Dead Sea
[100:02] Scrolls a different museum now that
[100:05] Israel has been officially formed
[100:06] because they were there when it wasn't
[100:08] actually
[100:10] >> officially Israel I guess.
[100:12] >> Wow. And there's a a copper scroll I
[100:15] just stumbled across I didn't know about
[100:17] that was moved to Aman and is now part
[100:19] of the Jordan Museum.
[100:20] >> Wow.
[100:21] >> One of the scrolls that looks
[100:24] >> made out of metal and tin.
[100:25] >> That was a part of the Dead Sea Scrolls
[100:27] >> and it was made out of copper.
[100:30] >> Whoa. Well, that's a replica.
[100:32] >> Well, that part is probably, I guess.
[100:33] But yeah, said it was found in cave 3
[100:36] >> where everything else was written on
[100:37] parchment. This was written on metal.
[100:40] >> Holy [ __ ]
[100:42] That's insane.
[100:43] >> Copper mixed with about 1% tin, although
[100:46] no metallic copper remained in the
[100:48] strips. The action of the centuries had
[100:50] been to convert the metal into brittle
[100:52] oxide.
[100:53] >> Unlike the others, it's not a literary
[100:55] work, but a list of 64 places where
[100:57] various items of gold and silver were
[100:59] buried or hidden.
[101:00] >> Not a story, it's a treasure map.
[101:02] >> Wow. A treasure map written on copper
[101:05] >> and a day when copper was a treasure.
[101:07] >> Wow.
[101:09] >> Yeah. And then it says a faximile is now
[101:11] on display or being
[101:13] >> there's got to be so much we're missing.
[101:15] >> No, so much we're missing.
[101:16] >> So much buried stuff. So much like just
[101:19] think of subsaharan Africa used to be
[101:22] lush and green. Like what is under
[101:24] there?
[101:25] >> Yeah.
[101:25] >> What's under there?
[101:26] >> Yeah, that's you dead on. Exactly. All
[101:29] across there's so many places in the
[101:31] world that are that way if you ask me.
[101:32] It's like like Easter Island um when the
[101:36] sea levels were lower and that thing was
[101:38] a lot bigger and it was part of a series
[101:40] of islands that jumped from one to the
[101:41] next. You know, you know what navls of
[101:43] the world are, right?
[101:45] >> What
[101:45] >> navalss of the world like uh naval?
[101:47] >> Yeah. Like a world like the Yig Dreasel,
[101:49] the world tree, right? Like connects the
[101:51] underworld here and heavens.
[101:54] >> This idea is super common through Cusco
[101:57] had one. Uh the wailing wall is one.
[102:00] You're going to go kiss the wall. That's
[102:02] that's that's a that's the that's that's
[102:04] a a world naval.
[102:05] >> These are always the oracle at Delhigh
[102:08] world naval. Um these are always centers
[102:11] of the society, right? Jerusalem,
[102:14] Delhigh, Cusco, except for there's one
[102:17] at Easter Island, the far-flung corner
[102:19] of the Polynesian Empire has a world
[102:21] naval. But if you lower the sea levels
[102:23] and look at that as a string of islands,
[102:25] all of a sudden it is the center of the
[102:27] empire. So, I really like that's an area
[102:30] out of all the places on the planet, I
[102:32] think Easter Island has the most that if
[102:34] we were to because it's been dug at the
[102:36] least and has a lot there still. I mean,
[102:39] there's it's been looted hard, but it
[102:41] hasn't been looted like Rome has been or
[102:43] Egypt has been. Not even close. And I
[102:45] think that I think honestly that there's
[102:47] going to be a lot more there the more
[102:49] that we look. I think
[102:52] unfortunately
[102:53] stuff happens too quick. We we find the
[102:55] stuff and two days later it becomes like
[102:57] the trident mummies. Two days later it
[102:59] becomes a news story. Half the world
[103:01] like you say everything's all polarized
[103:02] now. You could it's you could even pick
[103:04] and choose your [ __ ] scientists when
[103:06] it comes to medicine nowadays. Joe, it's
[103:09] it's completely polarized. So when it
[103:11] comes to something like archaeology, hey
[103:13] [ __ ]
[103:13] >> who do you want? What what side of the
[103:15] table do you want? You'll find somebody
[103:16] with credentials or close enough that'll
[103:19] get in line with you. And so
[103:21] >> I was talking to a friend of mine about
[103:22] the South American stuff. He said the
[103:24] the cartels are a huge problem because
[103:26] they realize this $3 billion thing of
[103:30] selling these antiquities and they're
[103:31] selling stuff to people.
[103:33] >> Luke told me, Luke Caverns, he told me
[103:35] that he's he witnessed that when he was
[103:37] down there. There was a couple of places
[103:38] he went that he couldn't go into because
[103:40] there were guys with guns out in front.
[103:42] >> Oh wow. So they realized like, hey,
[103:44] someone's going to give me $5 million
[103:45] for this head.
[103:46] >> Yeah. That's that's And so we again we
[103:48] lose we lose everything. We lose all the
[103:51] context. How are they not losing those
[103:54] mummified tridactyl skeletons?
[103:57] >> I'm not really sure. That's a good
[103:58] question.
[103:59] >> You know, I would imagine those are
[104:01] super imagine we have one of those
[104:02] sitting on the table right here.
[104:04] >> That would be pretty cool.
[104:05] >> [ __ ]
[104:06] >> That would be pretty cool.
[104:07] >> Wonder how much we have to pay for one
[104:08] of those.
[104:10] >> Um,
[104:11] >> probably quite a bit.
[104:12] >> Well, to that part of the world, you
[104:13] might get away with 250 grand like they
[104:15] did those coties.
[104:16] >> But the Mexican government, like I was
[104:18] saying, they bought those coties pretty
[104:19] cheap, man. 250 grand is a lot, but it
[104:21] ain't a lot when you start talking about
[104:22] like Well, I said that to Matt Bell, if
[104:24] you know who Matt Bell is. He was like,
[104:27] "That's nothing." Well, of course to him
[104:28] it's nothing, but immediately the guy
[104:30] that has the money, the 250 grand,
[104:32] >> right?
[104:32] >> [ __ ] put that on my shelf. Frame that
[104:34] [ __ ]
[104:34] >> Meanwhile, he could have probably
[104:35] auctioned that.
[104:37] >> No, it was a family was afraid to. And
[104:38] honestly, the family been holding it for
[104:40] like 500 years. And in all honesty, I
[104:43] bet they were afraid. I I honest is the
[104:46] way things going. I don't know for sure,
[104:47] but I wouldn't be surprised if there was
[104:48] some some strong arming that went on
[104:50] there. Like you you can either get paid
[104:51] for, you know,
[104:52] >> or we take it
[104:54] >> just like when the mob do you want paid
[104:55] off for this or do you want beat on the
[104:56] head?
[104:57] >> Right. Right. It's just you wonder how
[105:00] much is lost like the burning of the
[105:02] Library of Alexandria. All these
[105:03] different instances throughout history,
[105:05] the burning of the codexes.
[105:08] >> This stuff is from Peru. This is a
[105:09] website that's got art uh from ancient
[105:11] Peru for sale.
[105:12] >> For sale. Yeah, there's tons of
[105:15] interesting stuff here.
[105:16] >> But the qu question is how do you know
[105:17] if it's authentic?
[105:19] >> That's a huge
[105:20] >> because there's a lot of this stuff
[105:21] that's counterfeit.
[105:23] >> Wow, that's dope. Look at that mask.
[105:24] >> It says the provenence of it. So, this
[105:26] one came from an archaeologist that from
[105:28] 1938.
[105:29] >> How much does that cost?
[105:30] >> It says 3500 or something. I think it
[105:32] says
[105:32] >> should we get one4850?
[105:35] >> How big is I'm not buying one. You would
[105:37] you get cursed?
[105:38] >> No. That's Well, says $4,850 on
[105:42] something. And I better be able to drive
[105:43] it around or smoke it once.
[105:44] >> Recent
[105:47] Egyptian bronze cobra.
[105:49] >> Wow. Somebody bought that for 2,000
[105:51] bucks.
[105:52] >> Wow. Add to cart right now.
[105:54] >> Wow.
[105:55] >> Bam.
[105:56] >> Kind of sick.
[105:57] >> I was from How old is it?
[105:59] >> Uh
[106:00] >> 664 to 30 BCE.
[106:03] >> Providence ex private New York City
[106:05] Egyptologist collection.
[106:07] >> Private New York City.
[106:08] >> Yeah. The Providence is weird on all
[106:09] these. It's coming. Everything's coming
[106:11] from different places. Yeah.
[106:12] >> It's interesting because that's not that
[106:13] expensive for what it is. You got a
[106:16] piece of Egyptian history.
[106:17] >> Yeah.
[106:18] >> Well, the providence thing is kind of a
[106:19] big deal. If the providence on them
[106:21] solid and it's after a certain date, you
[106:23] can't sell them.
[106:24] >> Show me what that image looks like. So,
[106:25] how come you how come this person can
[106:27] sell this?
[106:27] >> Yeah. Because the providence is going to
[106:29] come before that date. Like that they're
[106:31] going to have been been found before
[106:34] that date. It's like
[106:35] >> legally acquired.
[106:36] >> Yes.
[106:37] >> So, if it wasn't legally acquired, I bet
[106:39] they'd they'd get you. So, the laws are
[106:41] probably much stricter now than when
[106:43] they acquired it.
[106:44] >> Yeah. There's like It's kind of like
[106:45] assault rifles where there's like a a
[106:47] time when you can it's okay to have
[106:49] bought them, but if you bought it after
[106:50] that date, you can't have it.
[106:51] >> Or like pre-ban ivory.
[106:53] >> Thank you. Yeah. Same kind of thing.
[106:54] It's like if you got if you've had this
[106:56] artifact on your family, we're not going
[106:58] to go raiding the Rockefeller shelves,
[107:00] but you know, the rest of you [ __ ]
[107:01] can't have any new ones.
[107:03] >> You get a gold wing deity pendant for 67
[107:06] grand.
[107:06] >> Gold shaman. Yo,
[107:09] >> damn son,
[107:10] >> bro.
[107:11] >> That's pretty sick looking.
[107:12] >> He got sick fingers.
[107:13] >> Sickest. What's that from?
[107:15] >> Oh, and also look, he's got the I guess
[107:17] you say monkey on top of his head like
[107:19] that. And a two on the side.
[107:20] >> Why does it say price on a request?
[107:23] >> Uh maybe that's estimated here.
[107:26] >> So when it says uh gold standing shaman,
[107:29] is that actual gold? Made out of gold?
[107:33] >> There it is. 89% gold.
[107:35] >> What?
[107:37] You can just buy that.
[107:40] >> Well, look how dope it looks. Look at
[107:42] the image on the side. Go to the side
[107:43] view. The other one.
[107:47] >> What happened?
[107:47] >> Like it's made in China. Where' it go?
[107:49] >> Well, it's hollow.
[107:50] >> That's what I'm saying.
[107:51] >> Yeah, I kind of has to be hollow.
[107:52] Otherwise, it weigh 100 pounds.
[107:54] >> Yeah.
[107:54] >> Look at that. What a sick looking thing.
[107:57] >> Show me the front facing view again.
[108:00] >> That is wild.
[108:01] >> Wild, man. And how old is this supposed
[108:04] to be? [ __ ] that's cool.
[108:07] That would bring you good luck. Put that
[108:09] on your desk.
[108:11] Monkey luck. [ __ ]
[108:13] >> Oh, man. I think he's got some nipples.
[108:15] >> Oh, does he? Oh, when I was looking at
[108:17] things hanging around. I hope he doesn't
[108:19] have trophy skulls.
[108:20] >> Could be. Looks like
[108:22] >> his hands.
[108:23] >> Looks like those are cups, but they're
[108:24] faces.
[108:25] >> They look but they're stainless heads up
[108:27] there.
[108:27] >> They do look like heads.
[108:29] >> Does he have two heads in his hands?
[108:30] >> And he's got way more than five fingers.
[108:32] >> Yeah,
[108:33] >> he's got seven. Wow.
[108:34] >> Yeah.
[108:34] >> Maybe even eight if he's got a thumb.
[108:36] >> Again, you can meet that guy. Three hits
[108:38] of DMT.
[108:40] He's He's out there. Like, show me the
[108:43] the face forward version at the top.
[108:46] >> This one's been in Alabama for a while.
[108:47] Said,
[108:50] >> wow.
[108:52] Crazy. I'm sorry. And how old is it
[108:54] again?
[108:54] >> That's what I was trying to look up. Uh
[108:58] >> 500 to 158.
[109:00] >> Could be 500 years old. Oh, either way,
[109:03] that's nuts.
[109:04] >> That's pretty interesting.
[109:06] >> You could put it on a chain.
[109:08] >> Weighs 148 grams.
[109:12] What's that in a pound?
[109:15] >> I don't think it's a lot.
[109:18] 28.
[109:19] >> I say we're all doing weed math now.
[109:21] 128. So, it's probably even half a
[109:23] pound, maybe. Barely. We're
[109:25] >> doing weed math. Okay.
[109:26] >> What is 128 gram in pounds?
[109:32] Yeah. 28 pounds. A
[109:34] >> quarter of a pound.
[109:36] >> Wow. Pretty sick.
[109:38] >> That is cool.
[109:39] >> Just makes you wonder like what what
[109:41] were they trying to What is that? What
[109:43] is that guy? Is that a guy you see when
[109:46] you trip? Because it seems like it.
[109:48] Especially he's all gold.
[109:50] It seems like something you would see if
[109:52] you were tripping.
[109:53] >> Yeah. A a lot of that stuff. See, a lot
[109:55] of it gets really difficult for me
[109:57] because then I I I wonder about like our
[109:59] iconography and it's like, you know,
[110:02] somebody could look at something like
[110:03] that belt and be like, I wonder what the
[110:05] symbolism is behind that belt. At the
[110:06] end of the day, it's like no no
[110:08] symbolism. It's just it looks cool, man.
[110:10] >> Or a mascot for a team, you know?
[110:12] >> Exactly. Why Why is everybody worshiping
[110:14] the Spuds McKenzie?
[110:16] >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Why is
[110:17] everybody making the bullhorns at the UT
[110:19] game?
[110:20] >> Yeah.
[110:20] >> Yeah. But but but some of these things,
[110:23] you know, um are clearly, you know,
[110:25] religious and spiritual and and stand
[110:27] the test of time. Like um there's a lot
[110:30] of the the honoring of people with
[110:32] deformationations down there went for
[110:34] thousands of years. I mean, this went
[110:35] from
[110:36] >> the mech all the way up till the time
[110:38] that the Spanish show up.
[110:40] >> I think what's really fascinating is
[110:42] there's so many things that point to
[110:44] South America. So many things that point
[110:46] particularly to Peru. So many things.
[110:49] When you look at the megalithic
[110:51] architecture, especially the oldest
[110:53] stuff, the weird crazy shapes, and then
[110:55] you also look at the elongated heads,
[110:57] and then you also look at the artwork
[110:59] that you can only see from the sky, and
[111:02] like how many of these [ __ ] things do
[111:04] you have to see before you went, what
[111:05] was going on here? You should look at
[111:08] some of the their textiles that they
[111:10] made in Paracas. Like I showed that
[111:11] little monkey thing.
[111:12] >> Those guys were so good. if you don't
[111:15] mind pulling up a picture of Paraca's
[111:16] textiles, Jamie. They were so [ __ ]
[111:18] amazing that these like when I first
[111:20] read about them, I was like, and then I
[111:22] looked at some pictures and these are
[111:24] like they're otherworldly. These to
[111:26] think that these things were being made
[111:27] of over a thousand years ago, 2,000
[111:29] years ago. When you when you you see
[111:32] them, they are they're bunch of little
[111:35] people with just the feathers pointed to
[111:37] one side like they're in motion dancing
[111:39] and [ __ ] Um, like pick uh that like
[111:42] that one you're on right now, Jamie's a
[111:43] great one.
[111:44] >> This one here?
[111:45] >> Uh, no. The that the that yellow one you
[111:47] were hovering over the ones with the
[111:48] people. Look at that's a textile. Look
[111:51] at that [ __ ] 2,000 years old. Look at
[111:53] [ __ ] how beautiful that is. How
[111:55] wellade that is.
[111:56] >> Again, you could see that if you trip.
[111:58] >> Yeah. It's very It's very trippy, right?
[112:01] Like it's very psychedelic looking.
[112:03] >> It's very psychedelic. But then you
[112:04] consider that that same culture was
[112:07] doing all these brain surgeries. They
[112:09] were doing the lines on the ground you
[112:11] were talking about. They were modifying
[112:12] skulls. They were building things. They
[112:15] were and and they had people that
[112:17] artisans like this. This was a culture.
[112:19] This was a full-blown civilization that
[112:21] was above and beyond anything that we
[112:24] given credit to at this time. I mean,
[112:25] look at Yeah. Definitely DMT looking,
[112:27] but also holy [ __ ] man. Look at how
[112:31] artistic that is.
[112:32] >> I know. Look at the little faces that
[112:33] are coming out of his whatever the
[112:35] [ __ ] wrapped around his nose. Yeah,
[112:37] that boy's having a bad trip.
[112:39] >> Just wild. It is wild art
[112:42] >> and beautiful. So beautiful and so uh
[112:46] like everything else in that culture,
[112:47] they were just it just seemed to be so
[112:50] massively ahead of all their
[112:51] contemporaries. Um
[112:54] again, they they had that symbol that
[112:56] that Paraca's condol visible 12 miles
[112:58] out to sea,
[113:00] >> right?
[113:00] >> And you could think about hopping down
[113:02] the coast looking for that. You could
[113:03] think about guys from Easter Island
[113:04] looking for that or from Polynesia
[113:06] looking for that. We've got DNA that
[113:08] supports all that. There's a genetic
[113:10] drift both directions. It looks like
[113:11] people went from Easter Island to per to
[113:14] Peru and then back is what it looks like
[113:16] according to the genetics
[113:17] >> and that was the big sign like welcome.
[113:20] >> Yeah, that's my thinking. I mean, and
[113:22] again it's like hey here we're we're
[113:24] mingling all even if it was just here's
[113:26] the guys from the islands and here's the
[113:27] guys from up north and here's us. It
[113:29] still it seems like a symbol of like a
[113:31] mixing to me, like a convergence.
[113:33] >> Um, and the DNA stuff again, that's
[113:37] where it really all got me going on it
[113:39] because it's just you pick your genetic
[113:41] deformation and you see it there again
[113:44] with the back of the skull. That's just
[113:45] to me it's like smoking gun. It's like
[113:47] why were they doing this? Well, here's a
[113:49] very solid real explan. And then think
[113:52] about like the evolutionary arms race.
[113:54] This culture is working on bigger brains
[113:57] that can that that has all the
[113:59] intelligence of this species and the
[114:01] ability to see and hear that this
[114:02] species has and we're trying to get the
[114:04] best of both worlds and these guys
[114:05] aren't. You're going to get wiped out by
[114:08] us in a thousand years, 5,000, 10
[114:10] evolution is going to kill you off and
[114:11] prop these up. I think it happened all
[114:13] over the [ __ ] world and Paracus is
[114:15] just the last place that was still doing
[114:18] it. But I think that that elongated
[114:19] schools, that's why we see it all over
[114:20] the world. Soon as humans, soon as homo
[114:23] sapiens and archaic lineages with bigger
[114:26] brains than us in the back started
[114:28] mingling, I think this was like a
[114:29] requirement.
[114:31] >> This is all post younger dries impact
[114:33] too.
[114:34] >> Um right around like the oldest skulls
[114:37] that we know of are around 10,000 BC.
[114:39] Yeah.
[114:39] >> The oldest
[114:40] >> Yes. that we know of in the oldest post.
[114:43] >> Yes. Just right at the right right after
[114:45] right afterwards
[114:45] >> in China. So that's the other part of
[114:47] the question is like if there was uh a
[114:51] cataclysmic event that wiped out vast
[114:54] chunks of civilization, how much was
[114:56] left?
[114:58] How much how much survived? Because it
[115:00] seemed like South America didn't get hit
[115:02] as hard as North America and parts of
[115:04] Europe and Asia. Right.
[115:06] >> Yeah. And Africa was almost unscathed.
[115:08] >> Right. Right. Right. Right.
[115:10] >> Comparably these according to the
[115:12] megaponas. Right.
[115:13] >> Right. Which is So that gets real weird.
[115:15] >> It does. It's like so okay those were
[115:17] those people down in South America fine
[115:20] and what happened was that where
[115:22] advanced civilization existed on earth
[115:24] in the only place because advanced
[115:26] civilization these other places have
[115:27] been wiped out
[115:28] >> yeah that's that's honestly I think that
[115:31] that makes the most sense to me like
[115:32] >> and what happened to them
[115:34] >> that's the real question
[115:35] >> well the the Paracas people what
[115:37] happened before the
[115:38] >> well what happened to the people that
[115:40] built these megalithic structures what
[115:42] happened to the society that existed
[115:44] like was it just time.
[115:46] >> Yeah, I think so. Like they still had,
[115:48] you know, by the time of the of the
[115:50] Spanish showing up, the Inca were still
[115:52] doing those treations in the skull so
[115:54] well that they were up to an 80%
[115:56] survival rate. The Civil War was about
[115:59] 40%. By the way, like our Civil War
[116:02] doctors in American Civil War, the only
[116:03] Civil War, our doctors were about 40%
[116:06] about half as good as the Inca at
[116:08] drilling holes in heads and letting
[116:10] somebody through. I mean, [ __ ] dude.
[116:11] >> And why were they drilling holes in
[116:12] heads?
[116:13] >> Same reason because it relieves
[116:14] pressure. So like um like I'm saying
[116:17] that they were doing it as one of the
[116:18] reasons to relieve the pressure from the
[116:20] headache, but if you just get it
[116:21] somebody hits you in the head hard
[116:22] enough, you're going to swell up in the
[116:25] brain, you got to relieve pressure, so
[116:26] they drill a hole to get it out. Um this
[116:29] was uh yeah, a lot of the musket balls
[116:32] that didn't kill a man outright would
[116:34] leave a water on the brain kind of
[116:35] thing. So they'd have to do what they
[116:37] could to relieve the pressure.
[116:39] Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's
[116:42] ugly when you I would not want to have
[116:43] if I would have got shot in the Civil
[116:44] War battlefield knowing what I know now,
[116:46] I'd say just [ __ ] shoot me right
[116:48] here. Finish the job. So my my question
[116:50] is like why don't we see people that
[116:53] live in Peru with larger heads and
[116:55] elongated skulls today?
[116:58] >> Probably because it's illegal to do it.
[117:00] >> Is that it? Is it just a deformation
[117:02] thing or is it a deformationation thing
[117:05] uh you know manipulated thing on top of
[117:07] a cranial deformation that's natural?
[117:10] >> Yeah. Now, if it was the partial natural
[117:12] cranial deformation, I think eventually
[117:13] that would have been bred to be smaller
[117:15] and smaller, less of a pronounced issue
[117:19] um as uh those like I was showing those
[117:22] bones in the back that basically do the
[117:24] play and stuff.
[117:25] >> I think that over time that that we
[117:27] would evolve more accommodating things
[117:30] for it, but that it's still I mean we
[117:32] still have people that have those tiari
[117:33] malfformations today. You know, that cat
[117:35] scan wasn't from 2,000 years ago.
[117:36] people's still have this issue, but um I
[117:40] think that over time, you know, the ones
[117:42] that were too bad at it, their brains
[117:44] are just too [ __ ] big. They're going
[117:45] to die off. And honestly, I think that
[117:47] there was probably some of that Inca
[117:49] type of clan warfare going on it. Now,
[117:52] that's just complete speculation, but
[117:54] >> I mean, there was something, you know, I
[117:56] don't know ex there was something about
[117:58] a thousand years ago that caused all the
[118:00] cliff dwellers and all that [ __ ] Like
[118:02] there was none of these people lived in
[118:03] the cliff dwellings like 2,000 years ago
[118:05] and then they all moved into the cliffs
[118:07] and they all stayed for like a hundred
[118:08] years and they came back out. Like there
[118:09] was some war going on. You'd see a tribe
[118:11] of about 5,000 people would split up
[118:13] into a bunch of little bands of 500 or
[118:16] 200 or at the most 50. The Heliloqu
[118:18] dwellings they say had about 60 people
[118:20] that lived in them. 60. It's nothing.
[118:24] And they came from a place of about a
[118:25] thousand.
[118:26] >> So you think they were trying to survive
[118:27] raiders?
[118:28] >> I think it was pretty clearly warfare.
[118:30] Um, and an interesting side note,
[118:33] something that I've never I I went to
[118:34] the Hilaquift Dwellings when I came
[118:36] through here uh last month and I drove a
[118:38] buddy of mine, we drove through New
[118:40] Mexico and and the big old oil fields of
[118:42] Texas and we stopped at the Hilaquift
[118:45] dwellings. And so I looked them up
[118:47] afterwards to make my video about it and
[118:49] they redacted that the artifacts and
[118:52] [ __ ] are redact. It looks like reading a
[118:54] [ __ ] Epstein list emails. It's just
[118:56] like black bar, black bar, black bar,
[118:57] black bar. And what am I looking for?
[118:59] just what they found. And
[119:01] >> and this is just the people that lived
[119:02] in the cliffs.
[119:03] >> Yeah.
[119:03] >> Like why would they redact?
[119:05] >> Oh, that that the archaeologists that
[119:07] this is the peer-reviewed archaeology
[119:09] like the papers that they submitted
[119:11] afterwards. They just because of what
[119:13] they found that the explanation given is
[119:16] they redact information so that people
[119:18] don't go digging up [ __ ] right? So
[119:20] they're like, "Okay, except for in the
[119:22] same paper it says we didn't dig here
[119:24] and we think there's artifacts here a
[119:26] few different times." They're redacting
[119:27] the things that they found and the
[119:29] people that took them and on some
[119:30] occasions where they were found. It's
[119:33] and it's not the only thing in south in
[119:35] the southwest that's that way. The more
[119:37] I look, I see it's fairly common.
[119:39] >> Why do you think they're doing that?
[119:40] >> They're finding some they don't want
[119:42] people to know. Maybe they're selling on
[119:43] the black market would be the most
[119:45] obvious explanation, but like the most
[119:47] mundane. But when it becomes a
[119:49] ubiquitous problem
[119:52] saying the short answer is the same as
[119:54] why they cover up the show on the
[119:56] Epstein list to cover it up to hide it.
[119:58] There's something there they don't want
[119:59] you to know. And what for sure? I don't
[120:01] know. I can't read on the black bars.
[120:02] >> What could you even speculate? Like what
[120:04] would they be trying to hide? It could
[120:05] be dwelling civilizations.
[120:07] >> It could be nothing more than an out of
[120:09] place artifact. It could be
[120:11] >> an out of place artifact.
[120:12] >> Out of place artifact.
[120:13] >> How so? Like what do you mean?
[120:14] >> You mean um like what we consider the
[120:16] antither mechanism to be something
[120:18] that's more advanced for its time. So
[120:20] you know if they just found something
[120:22] that say they don't think that these
[120:23] guys could work iron and they found an
[120:25] iron arrow head there that wasn't a
[120:27] trade piece. It was pre-colian.
[120:30] >> You think they would redact that?
[120:32] >> Uh I don't know. But I know they
[120:34] redacted a lot. Um,
[120:35] >> but is a possible explanation that they
[120:38] just redacted where these things were so
[120:40] that people wouldn't go back to the
[120:41] area.
[120:43] >> It would be if they didn't have so much
[120:45] of the of the stuff that was
[120:49] like you had to like it'll say we went
[120:53] to this site and we found black bar and
[120:56] then we went to this site and we found
[120:58] black bar. So took black bar and then
[121:02] it'll be another site that it says at
[121:03] this site we thought there would be some
[121:04] artifacts but we haven't dug yet. Well,
[121:06] why is that site not black? That's the
[121:09] one that's I'm that I'm of all of them.
[121:11] That's the one I want to go to because
[121:12] that's the one you said there's still
[121:13] [ __ ] left to dig up,
[121:14] >> right?
[121:15] >> But that's the one and according to
[121:17] their explanation, that's the one they
[121:18] black bar. But they don't black bar that
[121:20] one. They black. So it honestly looks
[121:23] convoluted. It looks like they're
[121:24] they're they're selling a false bill of
[121:26] goods with that. I haven't.
[121:29] >> What are the other possibilities of the
[121:30] reason why they would redact it other
[121:32] than out ofplace artifacts?
[121:33] >> The the first one, like honestly, the
[121:35] most mundane is just to sell stuff.
[121:37] That's a really cool [ __ ] piece. I'm
[121:38] going to go sell it to Rockefeller.
[121:40] >> And that could be it.
[121:41] >> That could be it.
[121:41] >> And that way they don't have to say what
[121:43] was there. They redacted it and then
[121:46] there's no need to explain where it
[121:47] went.
[121:48] >> That's right.
[121:48] >> That makes more sense.
[121:49] >> That That makes the most sense. It makes
[121:51] the most sense. It does make the most
[121:52] sense. That's got money involved.
[121:53] >> Straight and mundane. And Yep.
[121:55] >> And people love those things. But it's
[121:58] become,
[122:00] like I say, it's it's all over the
[122:02] Southwest. It's not just one or two
[122:05] sites. Um, I just stumbled onto it
[122:07] because I was looking up the the Hila
[122:09] Cliffins because it happened to have
[122:10] been there.
[122:11] >> And that's where I mean, I haven't dug
[122:12] into it enough to put it all together,
[122:14] but it's, you know, when I was here last
[122:17] time, the the cover up stuff was
[122:19] something I was a whole lot less liable.
[122:21] I was a whole lot less accepting of a
[122:23] top down kind of cover up thing, but the
[122:26] skull stuff has honestly got me where
[122:28] it's just like, dude, there's too much
[122:30] of this information that dis it
[122:31] disappears as I use it. I I put it in
[122:34] the link it in the video and two weeks
[122:35] later I can't [ __ ] find it again.
[122:36] It's like
[122:39] at a certain point becomes quite obvious
[122:40] that something's being hidden. when when
[122:42] the maps change over a hundred years and
[122:44] we lose information, you get on Google
[122:47] and ask for the island of Newi elongated
[122:50] skull and it'll tell you it never
[122:51] happened. But then you can bring up a
[122:52] bunch of expeditions of people that had
[122:54] them from the it's it's constant. It's a
[122:56] constant. The information is just not
[122:59] easily accessible. It's hidden. It's
[123:01] covered up. And I don't know why. 100%
[123:04] don't know why. I've got some
[123:06] suspicions. I think some of it probably
[123:07] has to do with like people's belief
[123:10] systems as to where we came from. You
[123:12] know, like uh to give you example like
[123:16] archaeology, like science in general
[123:18] fought against the idea of gradualism
[123:21] and and catastrophism depending on in
[123:23] the early days of science it was out to
[123:25] prove the Bible. So things like erosion
[123:27] weren't what was looked at. It was
[123:29] things like floods and the walls of
[123:30] Jericho collapsing. But then the
[123:33] evolution and then geology it's about
[123:35] the same time it's really slow gradual
[123:37] so it became gradualism was the rule of
[123:40] the day and I [ __ ] you not these two did
[123:42] not become melded together in what they
[123:45] call punctuated equilibrium until 1980
[123:48] with the discovery of the KT impact
[123:51] disaster the whole loop crater when they
[123:53] accepted that the scientific community
[123:56] finally figured out what a [ __ ]
[123:57] 5-year-old could tell you that looked
[123:59] out the window every day sometimes
[124:01] things happen slowly and gradually.
[124:03] Other times things happen
[124:05] catastrophically and fast. It took
[124:07] science a hundred years to wrap its
[124:08] [ __ ] head around that because of
[124:09] preconceived ideas based on the Bible
[124:11] and where we came from. So I wouldn't be
[124:13] surprised at all if that same kind of
[124:15] psychology was here. evolution's
[124:17] [ __ ] or this proves. Who knows? But
[124:20] it seems like the psychology side of it
[124:22] seems most likely to me that there's
[124:25] some al underlying reason that they just
[124:28] pushing a narrative and that this is
[124:30] flies in the face of it. But again,
[124:32] that's total speculation on my part. One
[124:34] of the weirdest aspects of this whole
[124:36] UAP thing was that there was supposedly
[124:39] meetings with pastors
[124:41] where they were talking about some
[124:44] imminent disclosure that was going to be
[124:47] very disturbing to some of their people.
[124:50] And the speculation
[124:52] was that it was some sort of evidence of
[124:55] human engineering like that human beings
[124:57] had been genetically engineered and that
[125:00] religion itself had been made by
[125:04] extraterrestrials in order to plate
[125:06] mankind and keep everybody calm and
[125:09] together.
[125:13] >> Sure. I mean, that's it's interesting
[125:15] stories, but uh but the weirdest one,
[125:18] like all the the religion stuff made by
[125:20] aliens seems goofy. People made by
[125:22] aliens seems less goofy. It seems like
[125:25] something we would do. If if you went to
[125:29] uh another planet and you found monkeys
[125:31] and you said, "Well, let's take these
[125:32] monkeys and add a little do a little
[125:35] this, do a little of that." I mean that
[125:38] if there's evidence that people were
[125:40] doing that in Peru if that's real. We
[125:42] know that the Nazis were eugenists. We
[125:44] know that that's a concept that people
[125:47] that people do things like that. We know
[125:49] that we engage in genetic engineering of
[125:51] animals.
[125:52] >> We know that we brought back the dire
[125:54] wolf. Like there's there's a lot of
[125:56] weird stuff that we do. Now imagine
[125:58] something infinitely more advanced than
[126:00] us that finds us and go there's a lot of
[126:02] potential in these genes. But add a
[126:06] little
[126:07] >> cut cut a hundred million years out of
[126:09] the [ __ ] evolutionary biological
[126:11] process. Let's just [ __ ] ramp these
[126:13] [ __ ] up right quick.
[126:15] >> Go the Zachariah Stitch and H route and
[126:18] make them lust for gold and silver and
[126:19] then every so often we'll just come
[126:21] back, raid Fort Knox, call it a day.
[126:23] >> It's also the book of Enoch.
[126:25] >> Yeah, it's there's a it's really
[126:27] interesting. There's a lot of these
[126:28] things that do seem to line up with it.
[126:30] It's um you know the ancient alien stuff
[126:32] is
[126:34] >> super weird.
[126:34] >> Well, it is like I you know it's
[126:36] honestly using the same kind of thinking
[126:39] that you were just using on the black
[126:40] bars. It's like it's always the aliens
[126:44] are always the last thing I want to
[126:45] posit because the last because it's just
[126:47] the most unlikely like
[126:48] >> that's where you and me differ.
[126:50] >> Well, like you know I was one of the
[126:53] ancient alien guys, David Childress. I
[126:54] was in his living room talking with him
[126:56] about it and and he couldn't quite get
[126:58] where my brain is on this cuz I'm
[127:00] skeptical but not I guess. Um and I I
[127:02] told him basically I said look at it
[127:05] like this. If you walked into the
[127:06] bathroom right now and you came back in
[127:08] here and your wallet was missing. Now I
[127:10] could tell you that a dog came in here
[127:12] and grabbed your wallet and ran out the
[127:14] door with it. I could tell you an alien
[127:15] came in here and grabbed your wallet and
[127:16] ran out the door with it. But you're
[127:17] going to think that I [ __ ] did it.
[127:19] And that doesn't mean there's no aliens
[127:21] and doesn't mean there's no dogs. just
[127:22] means that we all know what's most
[127:24] likely and you really use that that it's
[127:27] ju just like with the black bars it's
[127:29] like yeah maybe it's an out ofplace
[127:30] artifact or maybe he's just selling it
[127:31] to some [ __ ] [ __ ]
[127:33] >> and so it's all that's where I always
[127:35] I'm not opposed to the idea of ancient
[127:37] aliens but you got to get me there
[127:39] >> but but then on the flip side like what
[127:41] you said about them uh um changing us I
[127:43] mean you could take that even to the
[127:45] degree look at like uh you've seen the
[127:47] idea that the pyramids were chemical
[127:48] purification plants the land of chem
[127:51] right one of the things that he says
[127:53] jokingly, but he'll say, you know, if an
[127:54] alien race came here and you were trying
[127:57] to set up shop, one of the first things
[127:58] you would do would be set up ways to
[128:00] like make chemicals and make make the
[128:03] stuff that you need to make your society
[128:05] and you would use what was local and
[128:06] what was available. That does does jive,
[128:10] right? It does make sense. So, there's
[128:11] always I mean, I'm not completely
[128:13] opposed ideas, but there's some things
[128:14] that the AAM's razor is a lot sharper on
[128:17] some things than others, I guess you
[128:18] could put it. But it, you know, I I
[128:20] agree. But I think the most complexing,
[128:23] most perplexing part about the pyramids
[128:26] is just that they exist at all.
[128:28] >> Agreed.
[128:29] >> That they exist at all and that they're
[128:30] 4,500 years old at least. Like it's it
[128:33] doesn't make sense.
[128:34] >> Not even.
[128:35] >> It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't
[128:37] make sense that something that is so
[128:40] involved and so massive and so complex
[128:43] and clearly has a tremendous amount of
[128:46] planning and geometry and understanding
[128:49] of so many different aspects of
[128:52] construction that we have no idea how
[128:55] they accomplished it. There's just too
[128:56] many too many things that line up with
[128:59] that where you just go what is going on?
[129:02] Like isn't it possible that we're
[129:05] missing something? Absolutely. We're
[129:07] definitely missing something with the
[129:08] pyramids. I mean, this is, you know, you
[129:11] know, they think it was 28 years that it
[129:13] was that the great pyramid was built in.
[129:15] 28 years
[129:16] >> based on
[129:17] >> based on written records and their
[129:19] assumptions that that Heroditus was
[129:21] right when he wrote about that part.
[129:22] They just disregard the rest. What he
[129:24] Heroditus wrote about that maze of
[129:25] Sakara. [ __ ] that noise. 28-year
[129:28] pyramid. Yeah. And I I've so I've told
[129:31] so many archaeologists, why don't you go
[129:32] build a [ __ ] fire pit in your
[129:33] backyard with cinder blocks and get back
[129:35] to me on that 28 years. It's like you
[129:37] guys have you don't own a [ __ ] tool
[129:38] belt. Go. There is no way. Well, you
[129:41] could have it and you'd have all these
[129:43] teams of people doing all the
[129:45] >> There's millions of stones.
[129:47] >> I I worked as a construction I worked in
[129:49] construction for a long time.
[129:51] >> Oh, this is the one in China.
[129:52] >> Architects and engineers [ __ ] [ __ ] up.
[129:54] >> Heard of this place?
[129:55] >> Yeah.
[129:55] >> Yes, that one's nuts.
[129:56] >> I saw this one recently. But the thing I
[129:58] thought was very strange, they said it
[130:00] was abandoned in like the 14th century.
[130:02] Uh the Yang Shang Quarry, these nubs are
[130:05] on this thing.
[130:07] >> We talked about the nubs being on
[130:09] >> many different pieces.
[130:11] >> They're everywhere all over the world.
[130:12] >> They were saying that they had a they
[130:14] must have clearly had a a plan obviously
[130:17] when they were starting to make it. So
[130:18] the nubs were cut on purpose, but it's
[130:22] they then abandoned it because they
[130:24] figured that they were they made them
[130:25] too big to move, which kind of that
[130:28] [ __ ] they had good planning, but then
[130:30] they also had bad planning.
[130:31] >> So do you think the nubs were involved
[130:33] in the lifting and maneuvering of these
[130:35] things?
[130:36] >> I would not of that one.
[130:37] >> I mean, that would have to be the plan,
[130:39] I would say, if that's why they were
[130:40] purposefully here and they're all over
[130:42] it.
[130:42] >> That one looks like it's carved right
[130:44] into the ground, though. Right into the
[130:46] rock. That doesn't look like a rock that
[130:48] was placed there. I might be wrong.
[130:49] >> No, this was still like they hadn't
[130:50] moved. These never got moved.
[130:52] >> Yeah.
[130:52] >> Right. So, it's a but it's a part of a
[130:54] quarry where things did get moved.
[130:56] Right. That's what's really crazy. Like
[130:58] look at that gap. If you go back to that
[130:59] last picture that you just had,
[131:01] >> look at the gap between those two
[131:02] stones. Now, imagine that that was a
[131:04] individual piece of stone that was
[131:07] removed from that gap and somehow placed
[131:10] somewhere. And again, how long ago? And
[131:13] who [ __ ] did it? Who did it? And how
[131:15] did you do it? How'd you do that? What
[131:18] are you using?
[131:20] >> Yes.
[131:21] >> And the to say that's not a mystery is
[131:23] [ __ ] nuts.
[131:24] >> Well, I the
[131:27] >> I don't understand why they why they
[131:29] want to get rid of the side of the
[131:30] mystery to begin with.
[131:31] >> Look at how that looks.
[131:34] >> That looks like someone cut that out.
[131:37] >> Well, I mean, they started to, but with
[131:39] what is
[131:40] >> right, but look how big it is. Look how
[131:42] big the slab is that's next to that
[131:44] structure. The one above it. The where?
[131:47] Yeah, that thing. Look how big that is.
[131:49] Like, was that cut out? It looks like it
[131:53] was cut out.
[131:54] >> Little carving inside of it even. Yeah,
[131:56] >> there's a similar I forgot to I'm trying
[131:58] to remember where it was in my head, but
[131:59] it looks like it's floating. I think
[132:01] it's in China, too, where it's looks
[132:03] like this, but it was put on top of like
[132:05] this
[132:06] >> very small little bit of water.
[132:08] >> I know what you're talking about. Looks
[132:09] >> like a fortress or something.
[132:10] >> Damn.
[132:12] Um, I don't want to sidetrack, but I'm
[132:13] gonna I was looking into this elongated
[132:16] heads thing. It was going on in France
[132:19] up until World War I.
[132:21] >> YEP. WHOA.
[132:22] >> And why I'm finding a very interesting
[132:25] thing here.
[132:26] >> A lot of Neanderls in France.
[132:27] >> Well, so they were
[132:29] >> It was Yes.
[132:29] >> Yeah.
[132:30] >> They were fashion baby bonnets were
[132:33] >> turn to the left. Fashion.
[132:34] >> Why baby bonnets were tied on the baby's
[132:38] heads? They did it a little bit of
[132:41] fashion, a little bit to for protection,
[132:43] but there's something here I kind of
[132:45] stumbled across on enough like if you go
[132:47] back further in history, it could make
[132:48] more sense that they were protecting
[132:49] them from spirits. And if you, you know,
[132:52] if you protect, if you tied it tight
[132:53] enough and nothing's getting in there.
[132:55] >> Oh boy.
[132:56] >> And that reshaped the head.
[132:58] >> And it was a poor kid. Look at that poor
[133:01] kid. Oh god.
[133:03] >> Not on purpose to reshape the head, but
[133:04] that's just what happened, you know?
[133:05] Like
[133:06] >> look at that baby. Like I said, eyes
[133:08] bulging out like a mouse caught in a
[133:09] trap.
[133:10] >> Oh [ __ ] man.
[133:11] >> Like it might have been a protection to
[133:13] just like keep your like kids were dying
[133:14] for, you know, all sorts of reasons back
[133:17] then. If they thought something would
[133:18] get into their head to kill them, too,
[133:20] they probably would do anything they
[133:21] could to protect them.
[133:22] >> Yeah.
[133:22] >> Now, you can't increase the capacity.
[133:25] >> Yeah. It didn't increase capacity is
[133:26] what I was saying. Nothing.
[133:28] >> That's what they say. It's it that one's
[133:30] I mean,
[133:31] >> could you
[133:31] >> Well, I don't know. I could you stretch
[133:33] it?
[133:33] >> I honestly don't know. I I it's that
[133:35] one's kind of frustrating is because it
[133:37] again you get you can pick your expert.
[133:39] There's people that will say these
[133:40] elongated schools have a higher
[133:42] capacity. There's people that say they
[133:43] don't. And since you can't go put your
[133:46] fingers on them,
[133:48] [ __ ] pick your expert. Here we are
[133:51] again. Right back where we started. You
[133:52] pick what what's your opinion. Well,
[133:54] that's that's the truth, my friend. And
[133:56] welcome to 2026. [ __ ]
[133:58] >> it's so interesting. Particularly Peru.
[134:01] I mean, when you just all the different
[134:04] things that point to a a spectacularly
[134:07] odd society.
[134:09] >> Oh, man. Yeah.
[134:10] >> And you just go, "What was it like, man?
[134:12] What was what was reality for them? Why
[134:14] did they make those Nazca lines? Why did
[134:17] they make those beautiful drawings that
[134:19] you could only see from the sky?
[134:22] >> The Pacific Northwest has some [ __ ]
[134:24] that's pretty wild. There was Mount
[134:27] Coffin, which is the place I told you
[134:29] where they saw those uh 3,000 burials.
[134:32] Um in the early 1900s, the Portland Star
[134:35] and Cement Company bought Mount Coffin.
[134:38] And the pictures from before are it's
[134:40] like a um basalt formation and it looks
[134:43] partially modified. Um I've got three
[134:46] pictures of it there, Jamie, if you
[134:47] don't mind. The first one with just
[134:49] Mount Coffin. There was like some people
[134:50] I think it says basalt or something but
[134:52] there's like some people on it and the
[134:54] Portland star and gravel company bought
[134:55] it and they mined it all away. They
[134:57] Daughters of the American Revolution
[134:58] tried to buy it. The Illuminati dude
[135:00] that was all like crazy. Yeah, that's
[135:03] that's the picture of it there. There's
[135:05] a picture of a bunch of people standing
[135:06] on it. I think might be the next one
[135:08] over. Um it's like a bunch of uh dudes
[135:11] standing on this basalt formation. It's
[135:13] a a skinnier pick. Sorry. But you can
[135:15] kind of see there where it might be
[135:17] artificially modified. The locals say
[135:19] there was all kinds of cool treasure in
[135:21] there. Now, the dude that built Long
[135:23] View, RA Long, Raw Long, um, built Long
[135:27] View is shape of a pyramid. The the
[135:29] floor plan of Long, not only has it got
[135:30] a pyramid floor plan, it's actually got
[135:32] a little little from the center going
[135:34] out like a little culde-sac that goes
[135:36] out like it's got the focal star from
[135:37] the pyramid coming out of it. It's
[135:39] [ __ ] crazy. the floor floor plan of
[135:41] Long View, if you just um but the
[135:44] streets were paved of the the four main
[135:47] pyramid arcs were paved with the gravel
[135:51] that came from that mountain.
[135:53] >> This this the town is like
[135:55] >> Can I see some images?
[135:57] >> I'm stuck down the 19 Yeah, I'm trying
[135:59] to I got to restart.
[136:00] >> Okay.
[136:00] >> Um but yeah, the uh the guy it was
[136:03] pretty nuts. the guy was like uh he he
[136:06] was a a member of the uh Freemason
[136:11] stuff. Um and they again he couldn't buy
[136:14] the mountain. They wouldn't sell it to
[136:16] him. But but when they he bought the
[136:18] gravel, he had the roads paved in these
[136:20] weird um uh octagons or hexagons instead
[136:24] of uh yeah like a floor plan. You can
[136:26] see like that. See the four from the
[136:28] center. Like if you get a
[136:31] and
[136:31] >> how weird.
[136:32] >> And there's if you get a straight top
[136:34] down view, you can see
[136:35] >> I'm looking at I haven't found one yet.
[136:37] >> Oh, sorry. Um but yeah, you can see
[136:40] there we go. Getting better.
[136:43] >> I think it's harder to see.
[136:44] >> Yeah.
[136:47] >> But yeah, just just map of Long View,
[136:49] Washington. That that picture there, the
[136:51] disruption of Mount Coffin. See how that
[136:52] that's the one there that's got all
[136:54] these people on and stuff and they look
[136:55] like the basalt might have been
[136:57] partially made uh partially modified.
[136:59] They're not 100% right. But there were a
[137:02] lot of rumors about treasures being
[137:04] pulled out of that while they were
[137:05] tearing it down. But
[137:07] by the time that this was all being
[137:09] done, there were already laws against
[137:10] destroying Native American mounds and
[137:13] sites and stuff. So rail, this guy uh
[137:17] Long was a a lumber baron. He comes out
[137:19] there and wants to build up a a lumber
[137:23] mill and stuff and all this crap. So, he
[137:24] builds a town of Long View, a totally
[137:26] planned city. And then he built all this
[137:29] goofy pyramid. He's got there's a a
[137:31] statue of him in the middle of town with
[137:33] um a girl handing him a rose and she's
[137:36] holding a dozen roses and handing him
[137:37] the 13th, which apparently is some sort
[137:39] of weird Freemason [ __ ] I don't know
[137:41] all the all their symbolism, but all
[137:43] kinds of goofy Freemason symbolism,
[137:45] right? And yeah, you see like the the
[137:48] town's laid out as a pyramid and you see
[137:50] to the right the center how it goes out
[137:52] to that little circle on the side.
[137:53] >> Uhhuh.
[137:54] >> Like it's this was um they've cut off
[137:57] the one line since then. Um no longer do
[138:00] they honor Long View's uh Long's
[138:02] original plan. They've actually he had a
[138:04] statue of him that used to face the
[138:05] rising sun. They've relocated it. That
[138:07] town was [ __ ] weird, man. And they
[138:10] they went almost like they're trying to
[138:12] fight his mojo or something. But that's
[138:13] what he did when he stole the Indians
[138:15] mojo. This was their burial mound. This
[138:17] is where they found their sacred
[138:19] >> [ __ ] all that. Pave my streets with it.
[138:21] Make that my mojo.
[138:23] >> And then somebody else is in there now
[138:25] going, "Yeah, [ __ ] your mojo." It's It's
[138:27] weird. And I, you know, I I don't need
[138:28] to believe in all the spiritual stuff,
[138:30] but you know, HP Lovecraft has a great
[138:33] quote about that. He says, "I don't need
[138:34] to believe in Santa Claus to know that
[138:36] people exchange gifts on December 25th.
[138:38] I can still follow your craziness even
[138:40] if I'm not crazy." Right? And so in this
[138:42] case, they seem to be up to [ __ ] some
[138:44] Crazy [ __ ] over there. Fight. But it
[138:48] just happens to be where biggest
[138:49] concentration of elongated skulls in
[138:51] history were.
[138:53] >> Wow.
[138:53] >> And it history doesn't when I say this
[138:56] [ __ ] All the archaeologist. Oh, there's
[138:57] no proof. It's simple math. To be buried
[139:01] here, you had to be a noble. To be a
[139:03] noble, your skull had to be modified.
[139:05] 3,000 burials were reported. 3,000
[139:08] elongated skulls. Not complicated here.
[139:10] Not tricky. But they'll argue with this
[139:12] to the Oh, Dan doesn't know what the
[139:13] [ __ ] he's talking about.
[139:14] Okay.
[139:15] >> What is your take on the Grand Canyon?
[139:19] >> The Grand Canyon stuff is really weird.
[139:22] >> Talking about Cad's Cave and [ __ ] Yes,
[139:24] dude. That's
[139:25] >> again one of those things where it's
[139:27] like, you know, two years ago, I'd have
[139:28] been like, it probably is Native
[139:30] American stuff at this point. Now, I
[139:32] joked the last one of these uh Quest for
[139:34] ancient civilizations things that we
[139:35] had. I joked on stage when they asked uh
[139:38] they were talking about uh different
[139:39] things that I said that the next time
[139:41] that we have some 9/11 type of [ __ ] and
[139:43] all the alphabet boys run back east, I'm
[139:45] [ __ ] brought off to the Grand Canyon.
[139:48] It's time, boys.
[139:49] >> Well, right now you can't go into the
[139:50] area.
[139:51] >> Yeah, because all the off restricted.
[139:53] >> Yeah,
[139:54] >> there's a part of the Grand Canyon
[139:55] that's restricted because it's air quote
[139:57] too dangerous or
[139:59] >> or it's Native American sacred site
[140:01] depending on who you ask. This is
[140:02] >> But I haven't heard that part. Well,
[140:03] yeah. If you That's the explanation that
[140:05] I usually see is,
[140:06] >> oh, that it's Native American sacred.
[140:08] >> Did they claim it's sacred?
[140:09] >> I don't know.
[140:10] >> Cuz you would imagine the whole thing is
[140:12] sacred. You would think,
[140:13] >> wouldn't you think that they were
[140:15] through? Like, that's not stopped us
[140:16] before.
[140:17] >> I was going to say all of a sudden we
[140:18] give a [ __ ] What about Rout Rushmore?
[140:19] >> But the fact, right, the fact that it
[140:21] happens to coincidentally be the place
[140:23] where this guy said he found a cave with
[140:25] Egyptian art in it.
[140:27] >> Exactly. That's where What year was that
[140:30] story?
[140:30] >> Oh, I want to say 1920. 9
[140:33] >> 1909.
[140:34] >> I'm off. Sorry.
[140:36] >> Let's see. What is uh
[140:37] >> It says it's a hoax.
[140:39] >> Yeah, of course it says it's a hoax.
[140:40] >> Yeah.
[140:41] >> No, sorry.
[140:41] >> There were though.
[140:43] >> There were hoaxes back then.
[140:44] >> Oh, yeah.
[140:44] >> Oh, yeah.
[140:45] >> There a bunch of hoaxes. A bunch of
[140:46] people. There were a contest to try to
[140:48] get your [ __ ] hoax reported the most.
[140:51] >> Oh, yeah. I'm sure there's hoaxes. The
[140:53] Grand Canyon hoax, though. The thing
[140:54] that's weird to me is that you can't go
[140:56] there.
[140:57] >> Oh, yeah. A 1909 newspaper story
[140:59] claiming a vast ancient underground city
[141:01] complete with mummies, copper tools,
[141:02] hieroglyphs, and oriental, in quotes, or
[141:05] Egyptian style artifacts have been
[141:08] discovered inside the canyon.
[141:09] Overwhelmingly regarded as a period tall
[141:12] tale, not an archaeological discovery.
[141:16] In March 12, 2009,
[141:18] J GE Concincaid
[141:20] >> 1909,
[141:21] >> excuse me, 1909. GE Concincaid,
[141:23] supposedly a lone explorer who had
[141:25] traveled the Colorado River from Green
[141:27] River, Wyoming to Yuma. April 5th, 1909.
[141:31] Paper dramatically expanded the claim.
[141:33] It said Concaid had found a nearly
[141:35] inaccessible cave citadel in the canyon
[141:38] that uh Professor S. A. Jordan and the
[141:41] Smithsonian were investigating it. The
[141:44] article described hundreds of rooms,
[141:46] mummies in a crypt, copper and gold
[141:48] vessel, strange writing, a Buddha-like
[141:50] idol, graneries, and space for up to
[141:53] 50,000 inhabitants. Wait, what?
[141:56] >> Yeah.
[141:56] >> Said the inhabitants may have originated
[141:58] in Egypt or somewhere in the Orient.
[142:01] >> But no, I do know that Jason guy, and
[142:03] he's um kind of a two-faced piece of
[142:06] crap, so I wouldn't trust everything
[142:07] that he says here. If he saw something
[142:09] that flew in the face of his narrative,
[142:10] he will not report it.
[142:12] >> Who is this guy? that Jason Kolivo guy.
[142:14] He's a professional debunker. That's um
[142:17] basically Yeah, I He's He's one If you
[142:21] ask Graham Hancock to list off the top
[142:23] 10 pieces of [ __ ] that argue with him,
[142:25] this guy's name's going to come up.
[142:27] >> There's no known physical evidence, no
[142:29] cave complex matching the description,
[142:31] excavated material, field notes,
[142:33] photographs, maps, uh accession records,
[142:37] or peer-reviewed archaeological report.
[142:40] The alleged Smithsonian personnel and
[142:42] expedition do not correspond to a
[142:44] documented Smithsonian project in the
[142:46] way the article claimed. But is there a
[142:50] documented his Smithsonian project in
[142:52] the Grand Canyon? Well, to me, to me,
[142:55] this is like really simple. This is the
[142:57] same as it's simple to figure out
[142:58] whether or not these skulls have more
[143:01] like capacity or not. Just [ __ ] let
[143:04] somebody go there. if it's too dangerous
[143:06] or if it's a native, get a Native
[143:08] American archaeology team, get some
[143:10] drones, [ __ ] investigate and close
[143:12] the door on it. But let me ask you this.
[143:15] If they really did find an immense
[143:19] cavern that could have 50,000 people
[143:21] living in it, and they found Egyptian
[143:23] hieroglyphs and mummies and sarcophagus
[143:25] or whatever they whatever they found. Do
[143:27] you think they would hide that?
[143:29] >> I That's a tough one. Honestly, honestly
[143:32] something that
[143:32] >> Don't you think that the people that
[143:34] discovered that would become famous?
[143:36] >> Oh yeah.
[143:37] >> And it would be a huge thing and
[143:39] archaeologists would want to get credit
[143:42] for it.
[143:43] >> Yes and no. Um like like let's put it
[143:47] this way. Say for instance you found
[143:49] something that that
[143:51] proved those tridactyl mummies were
[143:54] real. Okay.
[143:54] >> Okay.
[143:55] >> You know you're going to get push back.
[143:57] >> Okay. Now say for instance you're a
[143:59] mainstream archaeologist. your your
[144:00] whole job is is reliant on going through
[144:05] the proper channels. Now, I've seen what
[144:07] Flint did to me when I called him out as
[144:09] a liar. Do you know how many people call
[144:10] me They put me in the same [ __ ] camp
[144:12] as Madam Levonsky now. I'm dead serious.
[144:14] They'll call me total pseudocientists.
[144:16] They say that I believe in all kinds of
[144:18] crazy [ __ ]
[144:19] >> Who's that person you just said?
[144:20] >> Madam Lavoski.
[144:21] >> Who's that? She's one of the uh old like
[144:24] the turn of the century during the uh
[144:26] like a hundred years ago when everybody
[144:27] was the the the
[144:29] what do they call during the memeism era
[144:31] and stuff when all the people were
[144:33] seances and she was one of those
[144:35] >> [ __ ] artist
[144:37] and so she they put me in the same
[144:39] category, right? Um like the guy that I
[144:42] talked to about the metal urgy and the
[144:44] ice age is an ice core specialist. Flint
[144:47] crawled up his ass and got this dude to
[144:49] retract what he said and stuff.
[144:52] If you're a mainstream archaeologist and
[144:54] you fly a foul of these other guys,
[144:55] you're liable to lose your job. Yeah.
[144:57] Like I was saying earlier, it says it
[144:59] right in the Wikipedia thing. If you
[145:01] posited an earlier dating of the people
[145:03] of the Americas than this, these guys
[145:05] were going to destroy your career.
[145:06] >> I understand that. but to get the
[145:08] military involved and to block off the
[145:10] Grand Canyon because there's an area
[145:13] that's too dangerous or it's an area
[145:16] that's sacred to Native Americans to me
[145:18] is a bit of a reach that you get the
[145:20] Pentagon involved and they they send
[145:22] [ __ ] Blackhawk helicopters to circle
[145:25] the area and make sure that hikers
[145:26] aren't
[145:27] >> climbing. Something's up there.
[145:28] Something's up there. I mean, it might
[145:30] be nothing more than they got a military
[145:32] base sitting in there.
[145:33] >> I mean, dude, in Sedona, holy [ __ ] I'd
[145:36] never seen a UFO and I went when I was
[145:38] in Sedona they there's a what they call
[145:40] secret mountain and they hand me these
[145:42] dudes hand me these night vision goggles
[145:44] and it was like you're seeing all these
[145:46] little things in the air and then it was
[145:47] like five lights come out from this
[145:49] cloud they move in and they all
[145:51] disappeared together and I was like all
[145:53] this happens over secret mountain all
[145:54] the time I'm like yeah
[145:56] >> Sedona is a weird place man
[145:58] >> Sedona is [ __ ] weird
[145:59] >> and the people there are weird as [ __ ]
[146:01] >> I have never seen so many hustlers that
[146:03] weren't hooked on meth in my [ __ ]
[146:05] life. Everybody there's got everybody
[146:07] there's got a way to make 20 bucks here,
[146:08] 20 bucks there. But that's cuz it's more
[146:10] expensive to buy a to rent a home in
[146:12] Sedona than it is to rent property to
[146:15] rent business property on the main drag.
[146:17] They can't get minimum wage people to
[146:18] work there. They they it's 20 miles to
[146:21] the nearest town or 15 miles to the
[146:22] nearest town. So like they have a real
[146:25] hard time. Sedona is just kind of
[146:26] collapsing under its own weight.
[146:29] >> Well, it's all newagy people, right?
[146:31] >> All newagy people and they're all trying
[146:33] to make a buck anyway they can. So, why
[146:34] are the newagy people attracted to
[146:36] Sedona?
[146:38] >> Because of the because of the uh what do
[146:40] you call it? The
[146:42] >> Yeah, the the the reputation of uh
[146:45] >> you know, it's funny the the guy uh my
[146:47] my buddy Robert, he's organizing this
[146:49] whole thing that's going to be at the
[146:51] ACL. He uh he's lived in Sedona for
[146:54] years and he tells me like a lot of
[146:55] these vortices like there was like three
[146:57] of them that were energy vortexes that
[146:59] were known about and then this woman
[147:01] comes through in the 80s or the 90s and
[147:03] she said she found a whole bunch more
[147:05] and he says it's really funny she's
[147:07] grossly overweight and that's why every
[147:09] one of the vortices she found is about
[147:11] 5t from the highway.
[147:16] The three real ones, they're out in the
[147:17] sticks, man. Or in the desert, but
[147:20] Madvoski, she says it's right there.
[147:23] >> How convenient.
[147:24] >> Right. Right next to my bag of Juju
[147:25] beans.
[147:26] >> That's funny. Has anybody tried to find
[147:28] I know there's this one guy who went to
[147:30] the Grand Canyon. He got chased out, but
[147:32] he found something really weird there.
[147:35] >> Yeah, I'm think there's I just found a
[147:36] comment on a video that said this guy
[147:38] was actually hit by a drunk driver, and
[147:40] he has some of the best videos.
[147:42] >> Hit by a drunk driver and killed. Yes,
[147:43] he's dead now. Yeah, I used to watch
[147:45] this guy a lot.
[147:46] >> This video has four million views in two
[147:47] years. So,
[147:48] >> you a lot of people would use Google
[147:50] Earth and to be like, "Hey, check this
[147:51] out." But [ __ ] use Google Earth.
[147:53] And then he'd go there.
[147:54] >> And what did he find that's so baffling?
[147:56] >> I don't know. I have to watch the video
[147:57] and find out.
[147:57] >> You imagine if they whacked this guy
[147:59] because he found something.
[148:01] >> No,
[148:02] >> that's happened before.
[148:05] >> What did he find?
[148:06] >> That's I almost
[148:07] >> So, is he in the area where you're not
[148:08] supposed to be?
[148:10] >> I don't know. That's I'm trying to
[148:11] stumble. I'm going through all sorts of
[148:13] places real quick. I also would go if uh
[148:15] it wouldn't be two years later that we
[148:17] just found this amazing discovery if
[148:19] people would have shared this every day
[148:21] on Twitter, you know.
[148:22] >> Yeah. Right. But what is it? What's the
[148:24] amazing
[148:24] >> discovery? There could be nothing. I you
[148:26] know
[148:26] >> what is this?
[148:27] >> I don't know. I don't know where he's
[148:28] at.
[148:28] >> He found this.
[148:29] >> That's a cliff dwelling obviously. But
[148:31] >> that's in the Grand Canyon.
[148:32] >> Yeah. I've seen this in other pictures
[148:34] though. So it's that's not a you know
[148:35] discovery,
[148:36] >> right? So we know there were dwellings
[148:38] in the Grand Grand Canyon. The real
[148:40] question is that grand claim of
[148:43] something that has 50,000 people
[148:45] >> Grand Canyon hidden cave
[148:47] >> a thousand hidden caves although around
[148:49] 335 are officially recorded and most are
[148:52] strictly off limits to the public. See,
[148:55] and that's that's now why are those off
[148:56] limits to the public, but other cliff
[148:59] dwelling places allow people to
[149:02] >> what's that?
[149:03] >> All sorts of reasons where they are.
[149:05] Like you said, there could be part of
[149:06] it's on native land. Some it's probably
[149:08] very dangerous to get to.
[149:10] >> Want to come save you.
[149:12] >> Yeah.
[149:13] >> But it does get kind of weird when you
[149:15] look at like
[149:16] >> So, some of them are legal. It says
[149:18] legal visits Grand Canyon Caverns
[149:20] located off Route 66 near Peach Springs,
[149:22] Arizona. the biggest, largest, dry
[149:24] caverns in the US and offer public
[149:26] tours. Click on that.
[149:27] >> Yeah. I say just because it's not open
[149:29] to the public doesn't mean you can't go
[149:30] there. You just have to ask for
[149:31] permission probably in some cases and
[149:32] just get a tour guide or something.
[149:34] >> Yeah, but I think the area we're talking
[149:35] about is closed.
[149:37] >> That's I don't I haven't seen I'm
[149:39] looking for a list.
[149:39] >> At the mouth of the Colorado, it's at
[149:41] the mouth of the Colorado River
[149:44] >> is where Concaid supposedly found his
[149:46] thing. So like at right at the mouth of
[149:48] the Colorado River is where the Grand
[149:50] Canyon is like suppose from what I
[149:52] understand is where you just can't go
[149:54] like on the on the side of the hill
[149:55] there on the side of the cliff. But I
[149:58] haven't tried going I'm waiting again
[150:00] I'm waiting for the next time till
[150:01] there's a national disaster and
[150:02] everybody runs back east cuz man I you
[150:03] know I living on the west coast I don't
[150:05] live far from Hanford a little ways but
[150:07] it's real clear like when World War II
[150:09] happened they're like oh we're going to
[150:11] build this [ __ ] crazy bomb that might
[150:13] blow the world up. Let's put it all the
[150:15] way on the other side of the country
[150:17] from where we live over where all those
[150:19] cowboys and and hicks live. And if we,
[150:22] you know, if Washington glows in the
[150:23] dark, well then 50 years later, we got a
[150:25] bunch of blue-haired [ __ ]
[150:26] running out of Seattle. So you figure
[150:28] that one out as you will. But they
[150:31] definitely, you know, they put all the
[150:32] poison over with us. That's that's how
[150:34] they plan to do it. It's um it's the
[150:36] same in the desert, right? They dump all
[150:37] that [ __ ] out in the desert. Why do they
[150:39] test all the nukes in the desert in
[150:40] instead of over on somewhere near the
[150:42] east? because they don't want that [ __ ]
[150:44] blowing in their backyard. All those
[150:46] nice Rhode Island houses you're talking
[150:47] about. They they don't need radiated
[150:49] radiate Seattle,
[150:51] >> right?
[150:51] >> So,
[150:52] >> damn.
[150:53] >> Yeah. Yeah. Hanford's crazy. If you ever
[150:55] drive through there up in Washington,
[150:57] there's all these nuclear storage
[150:58] facility.
[150:59] >> I wonder if someone has a reason why you
[151:02] can't go to that area that they could
[151:04] tell us about.
[151:05] >> That's there. Unfortunately, from what
[151:07] I've seen, I mean, I might I'm not as
[151:10] Jaime's pretty damn quick. So, I'll get,
[151:12] you know, he might find something that I
[151:13] haven't seen quickly, but uh from what
[151:16] I've seen, it's it's very much like he
[151:19] says, she says this guy said there was
[151:20] stuff there. They say there's nothing
[151:22] there. They won't let you go there.
[151:23] There was one guy that claimed to have
[151:25] tried to go there and like he supposedly
[151:26] had a video where like people stopped
[151:29] him before he got there, but I watched
[151:30] it. It looked kind of like maybe.
[151:33] >> But they say that about Secret Mountain
[151:35] in Sedona. They say that if you go
[151:36] walking around on Secret Mountain up in
[151:38] Sedona that eventually a park ranger
[151:40] will come up to you. He's a lot buffer
[151:42] and better armed than most park rangers
[151:44] you're going to meet and oh Joe Rogan
[151:48] security. No.
[151:49] >> Do you think there's maybe some sort of
[151:51] an alien base somewhere in the United
[151:54] States?
[151:54] >> If if there are aliens and they're
[151:56] actively working with governments at
[151:59] all, then ours ours the Russians and the
[152:02] Chinese would be the only ones they'd
[152:03] give a [ __ ] about. Let's be honest.
[152:05] There's there's not the rest of the
[152:06] countries are the rest of the world all
[152:07] kind of just follows us. The oils, if
[152:10] you're an alien race, the oils, oh, look
[152:12] at those cute guys in their coal,
[152:14] >> right?
[152:14] >> But beyond that, yeah, I think if I I
[152:17] don't like I'm pretty skeptical when it
[152:19] comes to alien stuff. But if aliens are
[152:20] visiting Earth,
[152:22] >> um then yeah, I would ass if they're
[152:24] working with humans at all, then yeah,
[152:25] they're probably working with
[152:26] governments. And when I say skeptical
[152:28] about the alien thing, it's really one
[152:30] of two things. either we're so far away
[152:32] and technology. So, like look at where
[152:34] we're at now. We're maybe hundred years
[152:36] from actually some sort of interstellar
[152:37] travel and we're also maybe 20 years
[152:39] from completely wiping ourselves out. I
[152:41] think a 20-year-old kid with a million
[152:43] dollars can buy crisper and sit there
[152:44] and make genes in his [ __ ] B. [ __ ]
[152:46] We ain't looking long left on this rock,
[152:48] bro. We got [ __ ] AI. Do you hear what
[152:50] they did with that fruitfly? They took
[152:52] the fruitfly brain, put it in a
[152:53] computer, a physics engine, and it's all
[152:55] running around and flying like it's
[152:56] real. They max headroom this fruit fly.
[152:58] They chopped it brain into little
[152:59] pieces. Well, now they got it playing
[153:02] Beat Saber and [ __ ] Doom and all this
[153:05] other [ __ ] And you ever read the book,
[153:07] I have no mouth, but I must scream. At
[153:09] the very end, it's like these aliens
[153:11] genetically manipulating people. And at
[153:13] the end, there's this person that it's
[153:14] just like a blob. And that's what it
[153:16] says. I have no mouth, but I feel the
[153:17] urge to scream. Imagine being a fruitly
[153:19] with all my balls itch. I press the
[153:21] balls itch button. It's Beat Saber. It's
[153:23] like, [ __ ] That fruit fly is going to
[153:25] suffer more than any other animal in the
[153:27] history of humanity from kids pulling
[153:29] the wings off a fly. Oh, just set that
[153:31] brain to experience 10,000 years of me
[153:33] ripping its wings off. And here we are.
[153:35] We're we're doing it right now. We're
[153:37] doing that [ __ ] right now that they're
[153:38] ripping the wings. But Beat saber and
[153:39] [ __ ] That thing suff. So anyway, my
[153:42] point is is as a species as we look at
[153:44] going out into the stars, we're also
[153:46] guttural as [ __ ] So a species has to
[153:49] get through a lot of has a lot of
[153:50] hurdles to jump,
[153:52] >> right? But if they jump those hurdles,
[153:54] there ain't no way we're not going to be
[153:56] impressive. We're not going to be
[153:57] attractive because there it's universe
[153:59] is dead, man. So it's mo dead life. Dead
[154:03] dead dead life. They're going to look at
[154:05] us. So I have basically two sides of the
[154:08] coin on that is on the one I'm pretty
[154:10] skeptical of them getting getting it
[154:11] going, but if they did getting it going,
[154:13] well, yeah, they'd come around.
[154:15] >> Yeah. I don't know that they would be
[154:18] like us. Like our idea is like that
[154:20] we're so violent and we develop these
[154:22] weapons, we do that, we're so close to
[154:24] destroying ourselves. What if that's a
[154:26] factor of accelerated evolution? What if
[154:28] that's a factor of you take intellect
[154:30] and this lust for
[154:34] technology and to transform its
[154:38] environment and you implant that in a
[154:40] territorial primate?
[154:42] >> Yeah. That I mean, yeah. like you're
[154:44] you're dealing with like a weird hybrid
[154:47] >> of an evolved species. Like an evolved
[154:49] species that still maintains this tribal
[154:52] primitive behavior but also has this
[154:54] incredible lust for innovation.
[154:57] >> Mhm. No, I I could see that. I
[155:00] >> So we're like too complicated because
[155:01] we're not good. Yeah. We didn't
[155:03] >> we're [ __ ] design.
[155:04] >> Yeah. We grew out of our we too big one
[155:07] direction I I follow. And yeah, that's a
[155:09] that's a good possibility. I mean, it's
[155:12] ultimately I my brain on these things
[155:14] ends up thinking about the probability
[155:18] of all these different things happening.
[155:19] It seems to me if if we were genetically
[155:22] manipulated by aliens, um, you know,
[155:25] even not if we weren't genetically
[155:26] manipulated by aliens, you know, one of
[155:29] the things you have to do to get off of
[155:30] the rock is going to have to be a uh
[155:32] curious species, right? That's something
[155:34] otherwise they don't give a [ __ ]
[155:35] They're going to have to be social
[155:37] >> uh because they're going to have to work
[155:38] together. they're going to have to be
[155:39] godlike in and of themselves. So,
[155:41] there's a few things that we can assume
[155:43] about them, but yeah. Um,
[155:46] we only have one example of intelligence
[155:48] evolving. And if it didn't evolve, if it
[155:50] was created like you're saying, then we
[155:53] don't really know.
[155:54] >> We have multiple examples.
[155:55] >> Well, dolphins and orcas.
[155:57] >> Yeah. We we have a hard time whales.
[155:59] Well, but we have a hard time um
[156:03] we have a hard time, like you were
[156:04] saying earlier, we have a hard time uh
[156:06] understanding them. They they might they
[156:08] might be extremely intelligent in a lot
[156:09] of ways, but there's a lot of they might
[156:11] not be the least bit intelligent. A
[156:13] raccoon might be way better. It probably
[156:15] is way better at manipulating its
[156:16] environment than a dolphin.
[156:17] >> Of course.
[156:18] >> So that point
[156:20] >> because it's not necessary in their
[156:21] world. They they move through 3D space.
[156:23] >> Exactly. So um but then so their brain
[156:27] might not even have developed certain
[156:28] things that we Right.
[156:29] >> Yeah. So
[156:30] >> then the question is did it develop
[156:32] something else? Like is their form of
[156:34] communication superior? That's
[156:38] see that's where really like the words
[156:40] like what is what's the end goal? Is the
[156:42] end goal to have a good life or is the
[156:44] end goal to get off the rock? I mean if
[156:47] if the end goal is to have a good like
[156:48] uh a good life, Ari Mat's got it nailed
[156:51] when he when he talks about the people
[156:52] on the the love on the spectrum. They're
[156:54] way happier than all the rest of us are.
[156:57] Ari Maddie, excuse me. But um the the
[157:01] love on the spectrum or excuse me the uh
[157:04] the h you know is it about happiness or
[157:06] is it about survival? Is it about
[157:08] getting off the what's the end goal?
[157:10] It's like
[157:11] >> well is the end goal collective for the
[157:12] human species to evolve and advance and
[157:15] move past the state that we're at now or
[157:18] is your own individual existence and
[157:20] your happiness currently? Like what's
[157:22] what's important? And we don't really
[157:25] move collectively as individual. We
[157:27] think we do things collectively, but we
[157:29] think about ourselves.
[157:30] >> Yeah.
[157:31] >> You know, when when people are like
[157:32] planning for their retirement, they're
[157:33] not like trying to help out the human
[157:35] race. They're like trying to provide for
[157:37] themselves.
[157:38] >> That's correct. But on the other side,
[157:40] like when um when I'm working on doing
[157:44] research, and you do a lot of research,
[157:46] you'll probably understand this
[157:47] yourself, or when GSP invents the
[157:49] Superman punch, it's like you when you
[157:51] bring something new to the world, you
[157:53] kind of feel cool, you know? you kind of
[157:55] feel like I've just contributed to the
[157:58] grand total of human thinking and I
[158:00] didn't just add like a a dot or
[158:01] something. I actually I I contribute
[158:04] that's
[158:04] >> so you could see where almost like a
[158:06] subconscious desire to do that.
[158:08] >> Um so yeah, it is weird. It's like you
[158:11] know we do you watch birds fly together
[158:13] and fish move in a school and then you
[158:15] watch mobs. It's like dude there is some
[158:17] sort of unimmind that's tying us
[158:18] together. It does and I'm not trying to
[158:20] get all metaphysical. This might not be
[158:22] nothing more than than pherommones and
[158:24] chemicals, but something's got us where
[158:27] people act. You can feel it at times.
[158:30] You can walk into a room and feel the
[158:31] [ __ ] energy and just know, "Oh, I
[158:34] shouldn't be in this room. These people
[158:35] don't like me. This guy, it's not
[158:38] and it's not necessarily like a
[158:40] metaphysical thing, although that's the
[158:42] branch, the stamp that everybody puts
[158:43] on. It's one of the unfortunate things
[158:44] is that if something becomes like like
[158:46] water dowsing, if something starts as a
[158:48] metaphysical thing, science is going to
[158:50] kneejerk to the end of time to resist
[158:52] it. But ask anybody who drills wells
[158:54] about dowsing. If they drill wells for a
[158:56] [ __ ] living, they douse. Period. Just
[158:59] like a cop knows that full moon fever is
[159:01] a thing. The scientist, well, full moon
[159:03] fever statistically. The cop's like,
[159:05] "Yeah."
[159:05] >> What do you think is going on with
[159:06] dowsing? Honestly, I think it's You
[159:09] remember when we used to have tube TVs
[159:11] everywhere and you'd walk down the
[159:12] street and you'd know your friend was
[159:13] watching TV because you could feel the
[159:15] [ __ ] hair on the back of your neck
[159:16] stand up or whatever?
[159:17] >> No.
[159:18] >> You don't remember? You never felt the
[159:19] electromagnetic feeling of a tube TV?
[159:22] >> No.
[159:22] >> Well, I didn't walk by my friend's house
[159:24] and know he was watching TV.
[159:26] >> Did you ever you ever be able to walk
[159:28] into a room and know that that tube TV
[159:30] was on? You don't remember like the
[159:31] >> God, I don't I don't remember that.
[159:33] >> Well, I know that a lot of the viewers
[159:35] remember it's a thing. I'm sure if Jamie
[159:36] looks it up,
[159:37] >> you could feel the energy of the
[159:38] >> you can feel that the old tube TVs, you
[159:40] could feel them
[159:41] >> and um they don't have an exact
[159:45] reason, but you know, it's
[159:46] electromagnetics and you maybe there's
[159:48] iron in your blood. That's
[159:50] >> And so this dowsing, it's like with
[159:52] rods, those those those twisty rods, and
[159:55] they move together when you're getting
[159:56] close to
[159:57] >> walking over a water source. Yeah. They
[159:58] just do.
[159:59] >> Do you think it really works?
[160:00] >> Uh according to the guys that make money
[160:02] off of it, it does. and and I wouldn't I
[160:05] mean
[160:05] >> has anybody tried to do a study on why
[160:06] that would work?
[160:08] >> They that that's where um the only
[160:10] things I've seen were pretty skeptical
[160:12] and pretty kind of just like it doesn't
[160:14] work. But um again that's kind of where
[160:17] the rubber meets the road. It's like
[160:19] >> seems like that would be easy to prove.
[160:21] >> You'd think so. Like you got a dowser.
[160:23] >> Yeah. Well and that that's the thing is
[160:25] that they science wants everybody to be
[160:27] able to do it. You know what I mean?
[160:29] They want to be able to we're going to
[160:30] get 50 people together and have them all
[160:32] go out in the field and douse.
[160:33] >> You would take a someone as good at it.
[160:36] So CRT sets used a high voltage flyback
[160:39] transformer and magnetic deflection
[160:41] system to sweep an electron beam across
[160:43] the screen. Those parts commonly
[160:45] vibrated around the horizontal scan
[160:47] frequency roughly 15 to 16 kHz in many
[160:51] TV standards creating a very high thin
[160:53] tone. Children and young adults tend to
[160:56] hear high frequencies better. So they
[160:58] were especially likely to walk into a
[161:00] house or pass a closed door and
[161:02] immediate know the TV was running. Whoa.
[161:06] >> Static charge and beneath that as well.
[161:08] >> That's interesting that children and
[161:10] younger adults can pick it up. Like they
[161:12] also like see ghosts.
[161:14] >> Yeah, this might be what difference.
[161:16] You're just a few years older than me
[161:17] and so you might not remember it as
[161:19] well.
[161:19] >> Maybe maybe people just got duller over
[161:21] time and they can't feel it anymore.
[161:24] >> Yeah. Well, these these don't use that
[161:26] those transformers and all that. Right.
[161:28] Of course. Yeah. These are these are a
[161:30] joke by comparison. But my point is
[161:32] there's things like this that we we can
[161:34] pick up on. There's things that we pick
[161:36] up on that we that that we can be
[161:39] tested. And honestly, I love psychology.
[161:43] Although I'll psychology, just like
[161:45] archaeology, is not a science. I don't
[161:46] care when anything that self-reported is
[161:48] not a [ __ ] science. You think Epstein
[161:50] told his shrink what he was up to? [ __ ]
[161:52] no. Okay, there you go. So, but
[161:55] psychology does have some scientific
[161:57] bits and uh one of the things though is
[161:59] ultimately it's the lens that all of it
[162:00] comes through. Everything that we do
[162:02] comes down through that psychological
[162:03] lens. Like me talking earlier about it
[162:05] taking hundred years for them to
[162:06] reconcile gradualism and catastrophism.
[162:09] It's all through here
[162:11] >> and it's all through the zeitgeist to
[162:12] the time like right now racism is the
[162:14] big thing and all this social programs
[162:16] and so that becomes part of science for
[162:18] whatever [ __ ] reason. I mean, I'll
[162:21] still never forget the time I saw the
[162:23] article about feminist math and I just
[162:24] wanted to [ __ ]
[162:26] >> What was it?
[162:26] >> Feminist math. You know, it's that it
[162:29] >> I don't know. Maybe six oppresses seven.
[162:31] I don't [ __ ] know. I don't really
[162:33] know. I guess seven's more pointy and
[162:36] six has the whole probably the other
[162:37] way. And at any rate,
[162:39] >> it's I just laughed. It's there's we
[162:43] don't have room for that [ __ ] in
[162:44] science. The whole point of science I
[162:46] say this a bunch. The whole point of
[162:47] science is to like the whole point of
[162:49] the scientific method is to strip
[162:50] individual biases away. This is why
[162:53] replicability is so [ __ ] important
[162:55] because if I do it and you do it and you
[162:57] don't get the same result as me, there's
[163:00] a problem. Um,
[163:01] >> it's weird when it gets into racial
[163:03] differences and they just ignore it
[163:04] completely and they they they call the
[163:07] data racist.
[163:08] >> Oh yeah, that's exactly what and then
[163:11] then the guys that are like openly
[163:12] racist, they love that data. Well, the
[163:14] weird thing about the data being racist
[163:16] is uh it's not white supremacists at all
[163:18] because Asians are doing way better.
[163:20] >> Yeah, exactly. But you don't want to
[163:21] talk about that. You're that's like
[163:25] >> the problem is the people that aren't
[163:26] doing as well.
[163:27] >> The problem is is that they're in my
[163:28] opinion is they're trying to take
[163:30] Marxism and turn it into a anything
[163:32] besides a monetary [ __ ] idea. You
[163:35] try to do it well at a social level.
[163:36] Social Marxism. Oh, come on, dude. This
[163:39] is how you get the oppression Olympics.
[163:41] You know, I've I've got it worse than
[163:42] you know how much money I had to spend
[163:44] to get custody of my kid and I had no
[163:46] social programs for me. Oh, wo was
[163:49] >> and you go you go on that [ __ ] forever.
[163:51] It's it's so stupid. The one of my you
[163:54] know 95% of the people that are shot in
[163:56] this country by the cops are men. Do we
[163:59] need a men's lives matter movement or is
[164:01] that a little [ __ ] up? Okay, but
[164:03] that's it's
[164:04] >> Well, it's also men are the ones who
[164:06] create most of the violence. They're the
[164:07] ones that need to get shot. Well, this
[164:09] how about how this my thinking is like
[164:11] this. When a a a cop shoots a person,
[164:14] he's shoots a guy, he feels more
[164:16] threatened than he does by a woman. And
[164:18] when he shoots a black guy, he feels
[164:19] more threatened than he does by a white
[164:21] guy. Now, whether that's racism or
[164:23] personal experience or town by town,
[164:26] whatever, at the end of the day, just
[164:27] saying this is pure racism is like,
[164:30] "Okay, well then this is pure sexism,
[164:31] right?" Oh, no. It's not pure sexism
[164:33] when they're shooting guys, but it's
[164:34] when they're black. I mean, in all
[164:37] honesty, Donald Trump has a higher
[164:39] chance of being shot by the cops wrongly
[164:40] than Camala Harris. That's statistically
[164:43] like way more likely, like 20 times more
[164:46] likely
[164:46] >> in terms of men getting shot more than
[164:47] women.
[164:48] >> White guys are 20 times more likely to
[164:50] get shot by the cops wrongly than a
[164:52] black woman.
[164:52] >> Right. And this is not that's not
[164:54] denying racism or denying sexism. It's
[164:56] just
[164:57] >> you're dealing with statistics. I'm what
[164:59] I'm trying to do is take the I only
[165:00] bring these up because so many people
[165:02] bring up these statistics to say this is
[165:04] a problem and this is a problem and this
[165:06] is a problem and that's what when you
[165:07] bring up this one that's just
[165:08] overwhelmingly it's like all of a sudden
[165:10] we look at things differently now.
[165:11] >> This is a social Marxism thing. It's
[165:13] like and then it's also there's like a
[165:15] currency in being oppressed. There's a
[165:17] currency in recognizing oppression.
[165:19] There's a currency in signaling virtue
[165:22] that you recognize oppression that other
[165:24] people don't. you know,
[165:27] admitting your whatever whatever biases
[165:31] on the floor,
[165:32] >> whatever, you know,
[165:34] >> I'm so sorry. It might be
[165:35] >> whatever privilege you may have, you
[165:37] know, land acknowledgements, all that
[165:39] crazy stuff.
[165:40] >> It's like, you know, it
[165:42] >> we're trying to be good people, but
[165:44] we're doing it in a way that points at
[165:46] everybody else like they're bad. That's
[165:48] exactly.
[165:48] >> And that's where it gets real squirrely
[165:50] because people are using the the premise
[165:52] of being a good person to be really
[165:54] shitty to people that don't deserve it.
[165:56] >> No, I Yeah, I you know, and they don't
[166:01] do anything on their own. Like they're
[166:03] going to tell me that I should be doing
[166:04] X, Y, or Z, but like Kansas University
[166:07] recently like put out this big thing
[166:08] about how they feel so bad for living on
[166:10] indigenous land and
[166:12] >> you know, they give it back.
[166:14] >> Thank you. [ __ ] No, they ain't giving
[166:15] it back. You know what? They ain't even
[166:17] they even repatriated all the bones that
[166:19] they've got that they're supposed to
[166:20] have repatriated in 1990.
[166:22] >> I've only been to one place where I saw
[166:24] an actual land disclosure and it was at
[166:26] the South by Southwest premiere of the
[166:28] Age of Disclosure. And I thought this
[166:30] was so hilarious. There is a documentary
[166:33] about us being invaded by aliens. And
[166:36] before they play the documentary, they
[166:39] they have to acknowledge that someone
[166:41] invaded this land and took it from the
[166:44] natives. And this is the ancestral
[166:46] tribal land of the tong whatever tribes
[166:49] they they said we must acknowledge this
[166:52] first. Like wouldn't you play the movie?
[166:55] >> This isn't a history lesson. This isn't
[166:56] a struggle session. Play the [ __ ]
[166:58] movie. It's literally about us getting
[166:59] invaded by aliens.
[167:01] >> Yeah. And and and this is supposed to
[167:03] make it like
[167:03] >> better.
[167:04] >> You're a good person because you
[167:06] acknowledge this.
[167:07] >> A
[167:09] >> All right, I got to wrap this up. Um
[167:10] your thing uh is give out the dates.
[167:13] Tell everybody it's October 16th through
[167:15] 18th at the Quest for Ancient
[167:17] Civilizations Conference at the ACL
[167:19] Live. It's right here in Austin.
[167:20] >> Should be a banger of a time.
[167:22] >> It's going to be amazing.
[167:23] >> I'm sure it's going to be awesome. All
[167:25] those people there. Randall Carlson.
[167:26] >> Yep.
[167:27] >> Billy Carson. Who else?
[167:29] >> Yeah. Whole bunch. Kurt Med.
[167:30] >> Kurt Mezer and Duncan Trussell together.
[167:32] That's Tunka Trussell on Test and doing
[167:34] deadlifts for 10 years. Um David
[167:38] Childress. Great great cast of people.
[167:40] Awesome guys. David Childers is a really
[167:42] good dude, man.
[167:42] >> What did they do to you, man? They made
[167:44] you look
[167:44] >> Well, you know, it's it's the AI. It's
[167:47] >> You look like Alan Watts.
[167:48] >> I I look like somebody else entirely. I
[167:50] I almost Amish.
[167:52] >> You look very odd.
[167:53] >> Either way, thanks.
[167:55] >> You sound just like the chicks at the
[167:56] bar last night.
[167:56] >> It's a problem with the [ __ ] AI. You
[167:58] don't have to do that or do it do it and
[168:00] do it right.
[168:01] >> I my I say it to everybody. I actually
[168:04] had a production team or I wanted to
[168:06] like get me to sign up to do, you know,
[168:08] for them to help produce for me and
[168:10] stuff. And when I told them that I was
[168:12] not going to have any AI videos, no AI
[168:14] clipping, no AI thumbnails, and
[168:16] certainly no AI communicating with my
[168:17] followers, they're like, "We'll have to
[168:18] get back to you on the price." I'm like,
[168:19] "Yeah, I just took your tool belt,
[168:21] didn't I?"
[168:22] >> They wanted to be easy.
[168:24] >> Yeah, I can buy anything, too. Anyway,
[168:26] thank you. Always good to see you,
[168:27] brother. You too, man. Hey everybody.
