Food Makers Deploy Tobacco Playbook to Drive Addiction, Gearhardt Says

University of Michigan

Ultra-processed foods trigger compulsive consumption because industrial formulations combine refined carbohydrates, added fats, and synthetic flavor chemicals to hijack evolutionary dopamine pathways using design tactics inherited from tobacco conglomerates.

AI-assisted summary of Ashley Gearhardt: Fake flavors, real cravings create an addiction to processed foods — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2026-09-15

Key ideas

Ultra-processed foods now constitute an estimated 67% to 70% of the American food supply, directly correlating with the nation's high rates of metabolic illness. (14:45)
Modern food formulations stem partly from the 1970s and 1980s acquisition of major food brands by tobacco giants Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds, who transferred expertise in behavioral hooks and craving design to packaged foods. (14:45)
Ultra-processed foods hijack evolutionary reward pathways by pairing concentrated refined carbohydrates with added fats—a nutrient combination virtually nonexistent in nature—and reinforcing them with synthetic flavor chemistry. (10:03)
Controlled trials in a simulated fast-food laboratory demonstrate that ambient environmental cues like the smell of frying oil trigger dopamine surges that prompt consumers to eat approximately 400 additional calories. (17:26)

Detailed notes

## Background Published on YouTube by the University of Michigan on September 15, 2026, this episode of the Michigan Minds podcast features psychology professor Ashley Gearhardt discussing how ultra-processed foods drive overeating. The show notes highlight how industrial food formulations combine artificial flavors with concentrated carbs and fats to overstimulate brain reward pathways and generate intense cravings.

## TL;DR Clinical psychologist and addiction researcher Dr. Ashley Gearhardt examines whether ultra-processed foods meet the scientific diagnostic criteria for addiction, drawing parallels between industrial food engineering and past research on tobacco and alcohol. She explains that modern formulations hyper-concentrate refined carbohydrates, added fats, and synthetic flavor chemicals in combinations never found in nature, effectively hijacking evolutionary dopamine circuits. Gearhardt details the historical influence of major tobacco conglomerates acquiring food companies, compares global public health interventions against U.S. regulatory inaction, and shares findings from Michigan's FAST Lab, where environmental cues in a simulated fast-food restaurant prompted subjects to consume roughly 400 additional calories.

## Atmosphere & style The conversation carries an accessible, conversational academic tone, balancing relatable dietary anecdotes with rigorous neurobiological and public health insights. Host Jared Wadley and Dr. Gearhardt share an engaging, easygoing dynamic, shifting smoothly between humorous asides about office candy bowls and grave observations regarding severe metabolic illness and child-targeted corporate marketing. Listening feels illuminating and grounded, demystifying personal struggles with overeating by reframing cravings through the lens of evolutionary mismatch and behavioral architecture.

## Bulletin - [14:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=885s) Ultra-processed foods now constitute an estimated 67% to 70% of the American food supply, directly correlating with the nation's high rates of metabolic illness. - [14:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=885s) Modern food formulations stem partly from the 1970s and 1980s acquisition of major food brands by tobacco giants Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds, who transferred expertise in behavioral hooks and craving design to packaged foods. - [10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=603s) Ultra-processed foods hijack evolutionary reward pathways by pairing concentrated refined carbohydrates with added fats—a nutrient combination virtually nonexistent in nature—and reinforcing them with synthetic flavor chemistry. - [17:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1046s) Controlled trials in a simulated fast-food laboratory demonstrate that ambient environmental cues like the smell of frying oil trigger dopamine surges that prompt consumers to eat approximately 400 additional calories.

## Key takeaways - [01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=90s) Clinical observations of patients recovering from nicotine addiction revealed individuals substituting cigarettes with soda and donuts, persisting in compulsive consumption even when facing severe diabetes complications like blindness and amputation. - [03:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=194s) Scientific definitions of addiction do not require gross intoxication or physical withdrawal seizures, but rather center on compulsive loss of control, strong behavioral reinforcement, mood alteration, and intense cravings. - [03:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=194s) Substances can inflict catastrophic population harm without addicting every user; only 14% of alcohol consumers and 18% of smokers meet clinical addiction criteria, yet widespread product availability exerts a powerful subclinical pull on the broader public. - [07:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=426s) While neuroimaging shows that ultra-processed foods stimulate the mesolimbic dopamine pathway, brain scans cannot serve as standalone diagnostic tests because that same circuitry evolved to reinforce basic survival behaviors. - [10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=603s) Natural whole foods package carbohydrates or fats separately within fibrous, watery matrixes that slow absorption, whereas industrial formulations deliver unnaturally concentrated, rapidly absorbable combinations of both. - [10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=603s) Food manufacturers employ synthetic flavor bouquets to mimic natural evolutionary cues—such as fruit profiles in cereals containing no fruit—conditioning the brain to crave specific branded products like sodas and processed snacks. - [12:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=759s) Corporations exploit consumer wellness goals through 'health washing' marketing campaigns, such as promoting high protein on ultra-processed pastries, confusing shoppers seeking nutritious alternatives. - [12:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=759s) Lower-income households are disproportionately vulnerable to food-related health disparities because ultra-processed items are engineered to be the cheapest, most accessible, and most heavily marketed options available. - [14:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=885s) Major tobacco firms acquired food manufacturers like Kraft and General Foods in the 1970s and 1980s, integrating specialized knowledge of habit formation, product formulation, and consumer hooks into modern packaged foods. - [14:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=885s) While nations such as Chile and the United Kingdom have instituted front-of-package warning labels and marketing bans to protect public health, U.S. policy efforts remain stalled in part by a food lobby that outspends tobacco, alcohol, and gambling lobbies combined. - [17:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1046s) Ecological testing in the FAST Lab demonstrates that environmental cues like restaurant scents shift selections from healthy meals to fast food and drive an additional 400 calories of intake without foods tasting measurably better.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=0s) Introduction to Food Addiction and Ashley Gearhardt's Work

On the *Michigan Minds* podcast, host Jared Wadley, lead public relations representative at the Michigan News Office, introduces University of Michigan clinical psychology professor Ashley Gearhardt. Affiliated with the Institute for Healthcare Policy and Innovation, Gearhardt focuses her research on why humans are so powerfully drawn to calorie-dense, nutrient-poor foods, and what those consumption habits mean for mental health, obesity, health disparities, and chronic diet-related conditions.

Central to her work is the provocative question of whether certain ultra-processed foods meet the established scientific diagnostic criteria for addiction. If so, that classification carries sweeping ramifications for food policy at local, state, national, and global levels. Wadley notes that while he personally focuses on fitness and nutrition, he readily admits to indulging in classic comfort foods—whether that means craving a thick strawberry milkshake, savoring crispy hot onion rings, or snagging an Almond Joy or Snickers bar from his boss's communal candy dish.

[01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=90s) From Alcohol Research to the Clinic: The Spark for Food Addiction Studies

Gearhardt traces the roots of her career back to her initial training as an addiction scientist in an alcohol research laboratory. There, she studied how alcoholic beverages—which fundamentally consist mostly of plain water—are engineered through fermentation, distillation, and the addition of ethanol and sugar into hedonic products that no longer serve the purpose of hydration, but instead exist to trigger cravings and alter mood.

While learning the neurobiology and pharmacology of alcohol addiction, she simultaneously treated patients as a clinical psychology trainee. Her clinical work exposed her to people battling binge eating disorder and bulimia nervosa, as well as patients preparing for invasive bariatric surgery. These patients repeatedly described feeling an uncontrollable, addictive pull toward the ultra-processed items flooding the modern food landscape.

One striking pattern emerged among former smokers: clients who had successfully kicked severe cigarette habits substituted nicotine with constant soda consumption and boxes of donuts. Even when faced with catastrophic, unmanaged type 2 diabetes complications—including impending blindness and limb amputation—they found themselves entirely unable to stop. This glaring disconnect prompted Gearhardt to investigate whether industrially engineered foods had crossed the evolutionary boundary from sustenance into agents capable of driving compulsive, out-of-control consumption.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Transition from Natural Food to Compulsive Consumption accDescr: Diagram illustrating how industrial processing of base substances shifts human behavior from survival hydration/nutrition to mood-altering compulsive use.

subgraph Base["Natural Baseline"] A["Hydration / Nutrition"] --> B["Natural Reward Pathways"] end

subgraph Processing["Industrial Engineering"] B --> C["Added refined sugars, fats, flavor chemicals"] C --> D["Rapid absorption & amplified hedonic intensity"] end

subgraph AddictionCascade["Addiction Cascade"] D --> E["Mesolimbic Dopamine Activation"] E --> F["Mood alteration & intense craving"] F --> G["Compulsive use despite severe harm\n(e.g., diabetes, amputation)"] end ```

[03:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=194s) Defining Addiction: Lessons from Cocaine and the Tobacco Benchmark

Addressing what "addiction" actually means from a scientific standpoint, Gearhardt explains that the medical definition has evolved dramatically through decades of fierce controversy. Historically, medical authorities erroneously assumed cocaine was non-addictive because its withdrawal profile lacked severe physical symptoms seen with alcohol or opiates; only after watching people compulsively destroy their lives did the consensus change.

A similar battle played out over tobacco. Cigarettes are made from a poisonous plant engineered to deliver nicotine without causing gross intoxication or an overt high. Because smokers did not get drunk or display dramatic physical withdrawal seizures, the addictive nature of cigarettes was contested for decades, even as tobacco became the deadliest addictive product in human history. Science resolved these debates by establishing that intoxication and severe physical withdrawal are not the true defining features of addiction.

Instead, the scientific gold standard rests on a specific cluster of behavioral and psychological experiences: - **Compulsive loss of control**: An inability to cut back or stop consuming despite knowing the substance causes physical or psychological harm. - **Strong reinforcement and reward**: A willingness to spend significant time, effort, and money to acquire the substance. - **Mood alteration**: The product produces acute pleasure or provides relief from negative emotional states. - **Intense cravings**: Persistent, distressing urges that drive consumption cues.

Gearhardt emphasizes that possessing addictive potential does not mean every consumer becomes addicted. Just as most people can drink a glass of wine with dinner or take prescription opioids post-surgery without developing a substance use disorder, grabbing a single candy bar from the office dish is not pathology: - Approximately **14%** of alcohol consumers meet diagnostic criteria for addiction. - Approximately **18%** of cigarette smokers develop an addiction.

The real danger emerges when an addictive substance becomes ubiquitous. Drawing a parallel to modern sports betting—where pervasive advertisements saturate athletic broadcasts—she notes that when an engineered product floods the everyday environment, it captures a core group of severely addicted individuals while inflicting a "subclinical pull" on the broader public. Even individuals who are not clinically addicted find themselves routinely eating that extra cookie or drinking a soda they know is harmful, accumulating significant population-level physical and mental health consequences.

[07:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=426s) Brain Imaging, Dopamine, and the Search for Biomarkers

When asked whether neuroscience can pinpoint addiction via brain scans, Gearhardt clarifies that extensive neuroimaging research already exists, including studies conducted in her University of Michigan laboratory. Her team scans participants' brains while they view fast-food commercials and then observes their actual eating behavior in a simulated fast-food restaurant lab. In current experiments, participants undergo functional neuroimaging while drinking chocolate milkshakes.

The research confirms that all addictive substances act upon the brain's mesolimbic dopamine system—the ancient circuit responsible for motivation, salience, and craving. However, brain imaging cannot serve as an easy diagnostic test or standalone gold standard:

- The mesolimbic dopamine system naturally evolved to reinforce vital survival behaviors; it activates when someone drinks water, listens to music, or hugs a loved one. - Industrial processing hijacks this evolutionary system, supercharging reward signals to drive consumption of harmful products. - Dopamine spikes cannot simply be measured on a fixed numerical scale (e.g., declaring a 200% dopamine increase as an automatic marker of addiction) because responses fluctuate widely based on recent food intake, hunger levels, and individual genetics. - As with gambling or prescription opioids, behavioral loss of control and compulsive craving remain the definitive criteria for diagnosing addiction, while brain imaging serves as supporting mechanistic evidence.

[09:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=571s) Natural Foods vs. Industrial Formulations

Moving into the nutritional mechanics of ultra-processed products, Gearhardt contrasts factory-created foods with items found directly in nature. Whole foods provided by nature carry distinct nutritional signatures; they typically deliver carbohydrates in the form of whole starches or sugars accompanied by water, fiber, and specific micronutrients, but they virtually never combine concentrated refined sugars and added fats into a single, rapidly absorbable package.

[10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=603s) Evolutionary Biology vs. Engineered Food Chemistry

In nature, the human brain evolved to prize energy-dense foods because calories were historically scarce. When consuming natural whole foods like strawberries, bananas, nuts, or meats, energy is packaged with protective matrix components. A real strawberry provides a burst of sugar, but that sweetness is diffuse, bound up in water and dietary fiber, and packed with vitamins. As Gearhardt notes, "You can't, you know, mainline a bunch of strawberries into your stomach and into your mouth." Furthermore, nature almost never combines high concentrations of rapidly absorbable carbohydrates and fats within the same whole food. Human reward neurobiology pays exceptional attention to fats and carbohydrates because securing them was once essential for survival.

The modern food system short-circuits this evolutionary wiring through ultra-processing. Ultra-processed foods present unrecognizably altered ingredient lists containing compounds impossible to produce in a domestic kitchen. They deliver unnaturally intense, hyper-concentrated combinations of rapidly absorbable refined carbohydrates and added fats:

> "Many of those products are delivering these unnaturally intense and concentrated combos of rapidly absorbable carbohydrates and added fats. That combination just does not exist in nature, and our brain never evolved to handle that amount of intense reward stimulation in a food."

Beyond macro-nutrients, industrial food manufacturers deploy sophisticated chemistry to supercharge the sensory profile. By engineering synthetic flavor bouquets, products mimic the signals of natural foods that ancestral circuits evolved to crave—yet contain none of the actual substance. For example, Froot Loops cereal delivers an intensely fruit-like flavor without containing any real fruit. When synthetic flavors are paired with rapid hits of refined carbs and fats, the brain wakes up in an exaggerated state of reward signaling. Consumers develop targeted, hyper-specific cravings for industrial formulations: the unique flavor of Coca-Cola, the chemical burn of Flamin' Hot Cheetos, or the artificial sweetness of a fast-food strawberry milkshake.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Natural vs. Ultra-Processed Food Reward Processing accDescr: Diagram contrasting how natural whole foods dilute rewards while industrial ultra-processed foods hyper-stimulate dopamine.

subgraph Natural ["Natural Whole Foods"] A["Single Energy Source\n(Carbs OR Fats)"] --> B["Food Matrix\n(Water & Fiber)"] B --> C["Slow, Diffuse Reward Signaling"] end

subgraph Processed ["Ultra-Processed Formulations"] D["Refined Carbs + Added Fats\n(Unnatural Combination)"] --> E["Engineered Flavor Profile\n(e.g., Froot Loops, Cheetos)"] E --> F["Rapid, Intense Dopamine Hit\n& Deep Sensory Craving"] end ```

---

[12:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=759s) Food Policy, Corporate Accountability, and the Public Health Divide

Addressing the national discourse surrounding food policy and the Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) movement led by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Gearhardt highlights that public frustration over food additives cuts across traditional political lines. Speaking both as an addiction researcher and as a mother, she observes how grocery store aisles are inundated with ultra-processed products masked by manipulative "health washing." A striking example is driving past a Dunkin' Donuts and seeing advertisements plastered with "protein, protein, protein" designed to mislead well-intentioned consumers.

Gearhardt stresses that politicians, advocates, and regulatory agencies risk losing touch with the electorate if they do not recognize how exhausted Americans are with corporate profits being prioritized over child and family health. Public opinion data consistently demonstrates that Americans across the spectrum agree the industrial food supply and major food corporations do not have their best interests at heart.

This disconnect hits lower-income families hardest. When households are scraping together funds to survive each month, the foods that are readily accessible, cheap, and relentlessly marketed are ultra-processed formulations that Gearhardt argues "isn't even real food in many cases." Meaningful progress requires sweeping, upstream public health policies designed to fundamentally reshape the default dietary environment from which Americans draw their daily calories.

---

[14:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=885s) Global Precedents and the Big Tobacco Blueprint

Reflecting on her participation as one of 43 international experts co-authoring a seminal three-paper series on ultra-processed foods, Gearhardt explains that the overconsumption crisis is systemic rather than an aggregate of individual failures. Globally, the United States represents an extreme outlier:

- **Ultra-Processed Caloric Share:** An estimated 67% to 70% of the entire American food supply consists of ultra-processed items. - **Metabolic Illness:** The U.S. is the most metabolically ill nation on the planet, with disease metrics rising in direct correlation with the industrialization of the food supply over recent decades.

Gearhardt uncovers a critical historical factor: during the 1970s and 1980s, major tobacco conglomerates Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds acquired leading food and beverage giants, including Kraft and General Foods. These companies designed iconic staples like Hawaiian Punch, Fig Newtons, and Lunchables. While tobacco giants divested in the 2000s as public backlash over obesity accelerated, they successfully transferred their institutional expertise—specifically around formulation, craving, and behavioral hook design—directly into the DNA of the modern American food supply.

While countries worldwide actively counter these practices, the United States remains an outlier in regulatory inaction: - **Chile:** Mandates high-visibility black octagonal warning "stop signs" on the front of food packaging to alert shoppers to excessive sugar, sodium, saturated fat, and calories. - **United Kingdom:** Enacted regulations barring junk food advertising across broadcast and digital channels prior to 11:00 p.m. to protect children from relentless marketing cues. - **The U.S. Power Dynamic:** In the United States, ultra-processed food and beverage corporations outspend the tobacco, alcohol, and gambling lobbies combined, entrenching the power structures that block protective legislation.

---

[17:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1046s) Inside the FAST Lab: Cue Reactivity and Behavioral Architecture

At the University of Michigan, Gearhardt directs the Food and Addiction Science and Treatment Lab (FAST Lab). To rigorously test addictive food behaviors, she drew on her clinical training in alcohol addiction—where researchers employ simulated bars within psychology departments—and proposed building a fully simulated fast-food restaurant on campus. Michigan approved the design, creating an ecologically valid testing ground complete with industrial equipment to prepare hot french fries, cheeseburgers, and milkshakes.

The lab's empirical work demonstrates the dramatic power of environmental cues: - When study participants are presented with food menus in neutral office environments, they readily select healthier, whole-food options. - Once placed inside the simulated restaurant, immersed in the ambient aroma of hot fryer oil and commercial fast-food visual triggers, their selections shift overwhelmingly toward cheeseburgers and french fries. - In this cued environment, participants consume roughly **400 additional calories** compared to un-cued settings.

Participants report that the food itself does not taste measurably better inside the simulated restaurant; rather, the environmental cues instantly activate their brain's dopamine reward circuitry, generating compelling cravings that override baseline dietary intentions.

Undergraduate and doctoral students play a vital, hands-on role in running these trials. Undergrads regularly don fast-food uniforms, aprons, and paper hats to run fryers and serve study participants. Gearhardt notes with humor that when she walks down the lab hallway and catches the smell of frying oil, she knows instantly: *"Smells like french fries. We must be getting data."* This student-led infrastructure is central to deciphering why modern food cues prove so difficult to resist and provides the foundational data needed to design effective public interventions, clinical treatments, and regulatory policies.

[20:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1231s) Concluding Thoughts and Podcast Outro

As the conversation draws to a close, the focus settles on the lasting importance of this work—not just for current consumers trying to understand their cravings, but also to protect and support "the next generation as well." The host remarks enthusiastically on the research being done, calling it a "cool operation" and jokingly telling Dr. Gearhardt to let them know as soon as there is an opening to become a tester in the lab. Dr. Gearhardt warmly welcomes the idea with an "Absolutely," before receiving heartfelt thanks for coming on the show and sharing her groundbreaking insights into food addiction and ultra-processed ingredients. She expresses her gratitude in return, noting how much she appreciates the opportunity to talk about her research.

The episode concludes with the official sign-off for the *Michigan Minds* podcast, thanking listeners for tuning in. The production is credited to Michigan News, a division of the Office of the Vice President for Communications at the University of Michigan.

- **Guest:** Ashley Gearhardt, psychology professor at the University of Michigan - **Production Credits:** Produced by Michigan News, within the Office of the Vice President for Communications

## Notable quotes > [10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=603s) Many of those products are delivering these unnaturally intense and concentrated combos of rapidly absorbable carbohydrates and added fats. — Ashley Gearhardt

> [10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=603s) That combination just does not exist in nature, and our brain never evolved to handle that amount of intense reward stimulation in a food. — Ashley Gearhardt

> Because of this, people often keep going back to those foods and craving them again and again. — Ashley Gearhardt

> [10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=603s) You can't, you know, mainline a bunch of strawberries into your stomach and into your mouth. — Ashley Gearhardt

> [12:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=759s) protein, protein, protein — Ashley Gearhardt

> [12:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=759s) isn't even real food in many cases — Ashley Gearhardt

> [17:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1046s) Smells like french fries. We must be getting data. — Ashley Gearhardt

> [20:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1231s) the next generation as well — Jared Wadley

> [20:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1231s) cool operation — Jared Wadley

> [20:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o&t=1231s) Absolutely — Ashley Gearhardt

## Mentioned Almond Joy, Ashley Gearhardt, Chile, Coca-Cola, Dunkin' Donuts, FAST Lab (Food and Addiction Science and Treatment Lab), Fig Newtons, Flamin' Hot Cheetos, Froot Loops, General Foods, Greta Guest, Hans Anderson, Hawaiian Punch, Institute for Healthcare Policy and Innovation, Jared Wadley, Jeremy Marble, Kraft, Lunchables, Michigan Minds, Michigan News, Philip Morris, R.J. Reynolds, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Snickers, United Kingdom, University of Michigan

## Video description Many people love to eat ultra-processed foods. Think about those crispy French fries, or the delicious strawberry milkshake. Ultra-processed foods are heavily changed from their original form and made mostly in factories rather than kitchens. Instead of simple ingredients you might recognize—like flour, eggs, or milk—these foods often contain long lists of additives, preservatives, artificial flavors, and chemicals designed to improve taste, texture, and shelf life.

Ashley Gearhardt, a University of Michigan psychology professor, studies how addictive processes may drive overeating. She joins the Michigan Minds podcast to share her insights on the impact of these foods on a global level and what drives over-consumption.

"Many of those products are delivering these unnaturally intense and concentrated combos of rapidly absorbable carbohydrates and added fats," she explained. "That combination just does not exist in nature, and our brain never evolved to handle that amount of intense reward stimulation in a food."

But it doesn’t stop there. Gearhardt explains that the food industry uses special ingredients and descriptions to “wake up” your brain and make food taste more exciting. Scientists can create strong flavors—like something that tastes like a strawberry—even if there’s no real strawberry in it. For example, the Froot Loops cereal tastes fruity, even though they don’t actually contain fruit.

Many of these foods send signals to your brain that remind you of natural foods your body is wired to enjoy, but they’re actually made in factories using chemicals, she said.

When these intense flavors are combined with things like refined carbs and fats, they stimulate your brain even more. This can make you start craving those specific tastes. You might find yourself wanting the flavor of Coca-Cola, the spicy “burn” of Flamin' Hot Cheetos, or the sweetness of a strawberry milkshake.

"Because of this, people often keep going back to those foods and craving them again and again," she said.

Michigan Minds is produced by Greta Guest and hosted by Michigan News staff. Jeremy Marble is the audio engineer, and Hans Anderson provides social media animations. Listen to all episodes of the podcast.

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfU3S4Du-4o)

中文简报

Gearhardt称食品制造商沿用烟草业手段诱发成瘾超加工食品会引发强迫性进食，因为工业配方结合了精制碳水化合物、添加脂肪和合成风味化学物质，利用源自烟草巨头的设计策略劫持了演化形成的的多巴胺通路。临床心理学家兼成瘾研究学者Ashley Gearhardt博士探讨了超加工食品是否符合成瘾的科学诊断标准，并将工业食品工程与以往针对烟草和酒精的研究进行了对比。她解释说，现代食品配方高度浓缩了精制碳水化合物、添加脂肪和合成风味化学物质，构成了自然界中从未存在过的组合，有效劫持了演化形成的多巴胺回路。Gearhardt详细阐述了主要烟草巨头收购食品公司这一历史影响，比较了全球公共卫生干预措施与美国监管不作为的现状，并分享了密歇根大学FAST实验室的发现：在模拟快餐店环境中，环境线索促使受试者额外摄入了约400卡路里热量。超加工食品目前估计占美国食品供应的67%至70%，与该国高发时代谢性疾病直接相关。 (14:45) 现代食品配方部分源于20世纪70年代和80年代烟草巨头Philip Morris和R.J. Reynolds对主要食品品牌的收购，他们将行为诱导和渴望设计的专业经验转移到了包装食品中。 (14:45) 超加工食品通过将高浓度精制碳水化合物与添加脂肪配对——这种营养组合在自然界中几乎不存在——并通过合成风味化学物质予以强化，从而劫持了演化奖赏通路。 (10:03) 在模拟快餐实验室进行的对照试验表明，油炸油气味等周围环境线索会引发多巴胺激增，促使消费者额外摄入约400卡路里热量。 (17:26)

Reading summary

University of Michigan clinical psychology professor Ashley Gearhardt argues that ultra-processed foods are industrially engineered to trigger the brain's reward pathways, meeting scientific diagnostic benchmarks for addiction and driving population-scale metabolic illness. Diagnostic Criteria and the Tobacco Analogy (3:14) Gearhardt explains that scientific definitions of addiction evolved through historical debates over cocaine and tobacco, establishing that overt intoxication and severe physical withdrawal seizures are not required for diagnosis. Instead, the medical gold standard centers on behavioral markers: compulsive loss of control despite physical or psychological harm, intense cravings, mood alteration, and strong reinforcement. In clinical settings, Gearhardt observed former smokers who replaced nicotine with donuts and soda, unable to stop even when facing severe type 2 diabetes complications such as blindness and limb amputation. Addictive substances do not affect all users equally; approximately 14% of alcohol drinkers and 18% of cigarette smokers meet clinical criteria for addiction. However, Gearhardt notes that when an engineered product saturates the everyday environment, it exerts a subclinical pull on the broader public alongside severe addiction in a vulnerable subset. While functional neuroimaging in Gearhardt's laboratory confirms that ultra-processed foods activate the mesolimbic dopamine system, she emphasizes that brain scans cannot serve as standalone diagnostic tests, because dopamine naturally fluctuates and evolved to reinforce basic survival behaviors like hydration and social bonding. Evolutionary Wiring Exploited by Industrial Chemistry (10:03) Natural whole foods present energy packaged within a protective matrix of water, dietary fiber, and micronutrients, virtually never combining concentrated refined carbohydrates and fats in the same item. While ancestral human neurobiology evolved to prize scarce calories, modern industrial manufacturing circumvents these biological constraints by delivering hyper-concentrated, rapidly absorbable combinations of refined sugars and added fats that do not exist in nature. Beyond macronutrient ratios, manufacturers employ synthetic flavor bouquets to hyper-stimulate sensory receptors. Products like Froot Loops deliver an intense fruit-like sensory signal without containing real fruit. When paired with fast-absorbing refined carbohydrates and fats, these engineered flavor profiles awaken an exaggerated dopamine response, fostering targeted cravings for branded formulations such as commercial sodas, chips, and fast-food milkshakes. Big Tobacco's Playbook and Policy Inaction (14:45) Gearhardt highlights an underlying corporate history: during the 1970s and 1980s, major tobacco conglomerates, including Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds, acquired food and beverage companies such as Kraft and General Foods. Tobacco executives applied their institutional expertise in behavioral hooks, product formulation, and craving design to mainstream food lines like Lunchables and Hawaiian Punch before divesting in the 2000s. Today, an estimated 67% to 70% of the U.S. caloric intake comes from ultra-processed formulations, coinciding with the nation leading global rankings in metabolic illness. While international governments have implemented binding statutory countermeasures—such as Chile's front-of-package black octagonal warning labels and the United Kingdom's pre-11:00 p.m. junk food advertising restrictions—the United States lags in regulatory action. Gearhardt points out that food and beverage industry lobbying expenditures in the U.S. now exceed those of the tobacco, alcohol, and gambling lobbies combined, entrenching resistance to public health policies that could reshape the default food environment. Environmental Cues and Lab-Measured Caloric Surges (17:26) To empirically measure cue reactivity, Gearhardt established the Food and Addiction Science and Treatment Lab (FAST Lab) at the University of Michigan, constructing a simulated fast-food restaurant fitted with commercial fryers and branded visual markers. In trials comparing identical menus, participants tested in neutral office environments consistently chose healthier whole-food options. In contrast, participants placed inside the restaurant environment—exposed to the scent of frying oil and commercial cues—overwhelmingly selected cheeseburgers and french fries, consuming approximately 400 additional calories. Participants reported that the food did not taste measurably better in the restaurant setting. Rather, the ambient environmental cues directly activated dopamine reward circuits, producing acute cravings that bypassed baseline dietary intentions. Gearhardt uses this laboratory model to demonstrate that overconsumption is heavily mediated by external sensory architecture rather than isolated individual willpower. Gearhardt maintains that because modern overeating stems from industrial formulation and environmental cues rather than personal failure, addressing diet-related disease requires structural, upstream public health reforms rather than relying solely on individual behavioral restraint.

Source quotes

[10:03] Ashley Gearhardt: Many of those products are delivering these unnaturally intense and concentrated combos of rapidly absorbable carbohydrates and added fats. [10:03] Ashley Gearhardt: That combination just does not exist in nature, and our brain never evolved to handle that amount of intense reward stimulation in a food. Ashley Gearhardt: Because of this, people often keep going back to those foods and craving them again and again. [10:03] Ashley Gearhardt: You can't, you know, mainline a bunch of strawberries into your stomach and into your mouth. [12:39] Ashley Gearhardt: protein, protein, protein [12:39] Ashley Gearhardt: isn't even real food in many cases [17:26] Ashley Gearhardt: Smells like french fries. We must be getting data. [20:31] Jared Wadley: the next generation as well [20:31] Jared Wadley: cool operation [20:31] Ashley Gearhardt: Absolutely

Original transcript

[0:00] [music] [0:04] >> Welcome to the Michigan Minds podcast, [0:06] where we explore the wealth of knowledge [0:08] from the University of Michigan's [0:09] faculty experts. [0:11] I'm Jared Wadley, [0:12] >> [music] [0:12] >> lead public relations representative at [0:15] the Michigan News Office. [0:17] I'm thrilled to welcome Ashley Gearhardt [0:19] to the studio. [0:21] Ashley's a professor of clinical [0:22] psychology and an expert with the [0:24] Institute for Healthcare Policy and [0:27] Innovation. Her work explores why we're [0:29] drawn to calorie-rich, nutrition-poor [0:31] foods, and what those eating patterns [0:34] mean for mental health, [0:36] obesity, [0:38] health disparities, and other [0:39] diet-related diseases. [0:42] She also examines a provocative [0:43] question, [0:45] whether certain highly processed foods [0:47] meet scientific criteria for addiction, [0:50] and what that might [music] mean for [0:51] food policy at the local, state, [0:54] national, and even global levels. [0:57] Ashley, thank you for joining us. [0:59] >> My pleasure. I'm happy to be here. [1:01] >> I've wanted to talk with you in depth [1:03] for a while about your work. [1:04] >> Yeah. [1:05] >> I'm personally interested in exercise [1:07] and nutrition. [1:08] Like many people, I like foods that [1:11] don't always make the healthy choice [1:12] list. [1:14] I love a thick strawberry milkshake. [1:17] I savor the taste of hot, crispy onion [1:19] rings. [1:20] And I even enjoy an Almond Joy or [1:22] Snickers bar that I may or may not grab [1:25] from my boss's candy dish, available to [1:27] my colleagues. [1:29] So, let's start from the beginning. [1:31] What drew you to study highly processed [1:33] foods and their impact on mental health [1:36] and behavior? [1:37] >> Yeah, so I actually trained to be an [1:40] addiction scientist. I was in an alcohol [1:42] addiction lab, and we were learning all [1:45] about how this product that's mostly [1:47] water, most alcoholic beverages are [1:49] mostly water, that with a little bit of [1:51] processing and engineering, add a little [1:53] ethanol, add a little sugar, suddenly [1:55] it's something that isn't about [1:57] hydration anymore. It's about craving [1:59] and altering one's mood. [2:01] And while I'm learning all these things [2:03] about alcohol addiction, I, as a [2:05] clinical psychologist, was training to [2:07] see patients. And I was in a clinic [2:10] where I was seeing people with binge [2:12] eating disorder and bulimia nervosa and [2:14] people getting ready to undergo [2:16] bariatric surgery, a really an invasive [2:19] but effective weight loss surgery. [2:21] And I was hearing from the clients I was [2:24] seeing there that they really felt an [2:27] addictive pull towards many highly [2:29] processed foods that are now dominant in [2:32] our food environment. I actually had [2:34] some clients who said, you know, I used [2:35] to have a problem with cigarettes and I [2:37] quit smoking but I picked up this habit [2:39] now and I just I have, you know, just [2:42] drink soda all day long and I have all, [2:45] you know, a whole thing of donuts and [2:47] this is happening even though I have [2:48] unmanaged diabetes and now I'm facing [2:50] down amputation and blindness. [2:54] And so it really got me thinking about [2:57] whether some of these highly processed [2:59] foods through those same engineering [3:02] hedonic processes had actually crossed [3:04] the threshold from something that [3:06] nourishes and energizes us into [3:08] something that can really trigger that [3:10] compulsive out of control pattern of [3:13] behavior. [3:14] >> So that brings us to a big question [3:16] about your work. When scientists talk [3:18] about something being addictive, what [3:21] does that actually mean and how does [3:23] that definition apply to food? [3:25] >> Oh, it's a good question because it has [3:27] changed dramatically over the [3:30] over history. You know, we used to [3:32] actually think cocaine wasn't addictive [3:35] because cocaine's withdrawal syndrome [3:38] doesn't have a lot of physical symptoms. [3:40] Alcohol and opiates do. So like, oh, [3:43] cocaine isn't addictive. And then, you [3:44] know, we saw people would consume it [3:46] compulsively and it'd be ruining their [3:48] lives and they couldn't stop. Then our [3:50] next big controversy was about [3:52] cigarettes. You know, here's this [3:53] poisonous plant that they're able to [3:56] engineer into something that people they [3:59] don't get high, they're not intoxicated, [4:01] but the cravings and the desire for that [4:03] cigarette even when we knew how deadly [4:06] it was really prevented people from [4:08] stopping. And actually that is the most [4:10] deadly addictive drug in the history of [4:12] human existence. [4:14] Well, [4:15] how we have resolved these sorts of [4:17] controversies about when a new substance [4:20] comes on the market doesn't look exactly [4:23] like the drugs that we know are [4:25] addictive, we usually spend decades and [4:27] decades debating it. Even though people [4:30] are showing all the classic signs of [4:32] addiction that loss of control, the [4:34] craving, the continued use despite [4:36] negative consequences and we miss it for [4:38] so long. And so I really look at tobacco [4:42] as this true benchmark of how we [4:44] resolved a huge controversy about what [4:46] does addiction mean if you're not high, [4:48] if you're not going through horrible [4:50] physical withdrawal. [4:51] And it really comes down to the idea [4:54] that people consume it compulsively, [4:57] they want to stop, they know it's [4:58] hurting them and they can't. [5:00] It's that they find it really rewarding [5:02] and reinforcing. They'll they'll seek it [5:04] out, they'll pay good money, they'll go [5:05] out of their way to get it. It it alters [5:08] their mood. It gives you pleasure, it [5:10] shifts you out of a negative mood and [5:13] it's impacting the brain. We don't have [5:15] any really clear biomarker. We can't [5:17] look at a someone's brain and say, oh, [5:19] this happened exactly in this brain [5:21] region so we know it's addictive. That [5:23] doesn't exist, we haven't been able to [5:24] use that, but we use this sort of [5:27] cascade of loss of control. [5:30] It's all about the mood altering reward [5:32] properties and there's intense craving. [5:35] That's really kind of the scientific [5:37] benchmark for when we understand when a [5:39] substance or a behavior like gambling [5:42] has crossed the threshold where it can [5:44] be addictive. Now I think it's really [5:46] important to understand just because a [5:48] substance or a behavior has an addictive [5:50] potential, doesn't mean that everybody [5:52] who uses it is an addict, right? You're [5:54] sneaking some Unless it's going to get [5:56] you fired, uh you're sneaking it out of [5:58] the candy jar is is not the problem. [6:00] Most people consume addictive substances [6:03] like opiates after a surgery or, you [6:06] know, a glass of wine with dinner, and [6:08] they don't get addicted. But, a sizable [6:12] portion of our society does. Um usually [6:15] when we look at alcohol, it's about 14% [6:18] of users get addicted. Uh with [6:20] cigarettes, it's about 18%. [6:23] And And the thing that really happens, [6:25] though, is that when the environment is [6:26] totally flooded with it. Uh right now, I [6:29] feel like this is happening with sports [6:30] betting. I mean, I love sports, and but [6:32] I'm so sick of seeing sports betting [6:34] advertisements every 5 minutes. There's [6:37] going to be a sizable portion who are [6:39] fully addicted, but when it's so [6:42] ubiquitous, a lot of us have this kind [6:45] of subclinical pull. You know, oh, I [6:48] shouldn't have had that extra cookie. [6:49] Oh, I know I shouldn't have this Coke, [6:51] you know, it's bad for my teeth. And And [6:53] you're not totally out of control, but [6:55] on a population level, it's getting [6:57] enough people sucked into that, having [7:00] more than you really should, that it [7:02] really has significant health [7:04] consequences and mental health [7:05] consequences. [7:06] >> Mhm. [7:07] You had touched on the there's no [7:10] studies or there hasn't been any focus [7:13] on brain activity. Is that something [7:15] that's going to be seen in research um [7:18] down the road? [7:19] >> Yeah, so actually, the the good news is [7:20] there's tons of brain research. Um we [7:24] actually do some of it here and my lab [7:26] here at Michigan. Um we've done things [7:28] like look at people's brains while they [7:30] watch uh fast food commercials, and then [7:33] we bring them into I have a little [7:34] simulated fast food restaurant lab, and [7:36] we see how their brain response predicts [7:38] what they're going to eat. Um Um, and we [7:40] we've done similar things where right [7:42] now we're giving people a chocolate [7:43] milkshake while we scan their brain. [7:46] And there is strong brain evidence that [7:49] all addictive substances seem to [7:52] activate the mesolimbic dopamine center [7:55] of the brain. Um, this is the brain that [7:57] makes you crave and feel motivated and [8:00] to see that cue and suddenly want it. [8:03] All addictive agents seem to really [8:05] converge on that system. The problem is [8:09] lots of things converge on that dopamine [8:11] system. When you drink water, when you [8:13] listen to music, when you hug a loved [8:15] one, addictive substances and behaviors [8:17] are acting on the reward and motivation [8:21] system that evolved to make sure that we [8:24] took care of ourselves and we did things [8:25] that were good for us. The problem is [8:28] with enough enough industrial [8:30] engineering, suddenly that reward and [8:32] motivation system instead starts driving [8:35] people to consume things that aren't [8:37] good for them and and they really [8:39] struggle to get control of it even if [8:42] they really want to. But we don't it's [8:44] not as simple as being able to put [8:46] somebody in a brain scanner and give [8:47] them something and say, "Oh, we had 200% [8:50] dopamine. That's addictive." Because it [8:53] you know, it's very hard to measure and [8:55] it's very sensitive to how much food [8:58] you've eaten that day, what your genes [9:00] are. So we really have been able to [9:02] resolve, you know, these controversies [9:05] about whether prescription opioids were [9:07] addictive, whether gambling was [9:08] addictive. Our our real gold standard [9:11] has been is it triggering that cascade [9:14] of behavioral and psychological [9:16] experiences of that loss of control and [9:19] cravings. So the brain is really an [9:21] important part of it, but it isn't the [9:23] black and white you just go gold [9:26] standard, we scan the brain, now we know [9:27] it's addictive, you know, debate over. I [9:29] wish it was that easy, but it's not. [9:31] >> Yeah. [9:33] >> And building on that, are there certain [9:34] ingredients or characteristics of highly [9:37] processed foods that make them likely to [9:40] drive overconsumption? [9:41] >> Yeah, so [9:43] the thing that's really interesting is [9:44] that we see if you get food from Mother [9:47] Nature, food that it's pretty close to [9:49] its natural form, [9:51] it really has a certain signature. You [9:53] know, you you see products that will [9:55] give you will be a source of [9:58] carbohydrate, let's say, a sugar or a [10:00] starch. [10:01] Um but they're almost always like if you [10:03] think of berries, like a strawberry, [10:04] it's going to give you a rush of sugar, [10:06] but it's in this delivery package where [10:09] there's lots of water, there's, you [10:11] know, these vitamins, um there's fiber. [10:15] You can't you know, mainline a bunch of [10:17] strawberries into your stomach and into [10:19] your mouth. They also aren't very like [10:22] densely packed. That sugar is really [10:24] diffuse and the water and the fiber. And [10:27] you often in nature do not get [10:29] carbohydrates and fats in the same food. [10:33] We see that our reward system pays a lot [10:36] of attention to when you're getting [10:38] carbohydrates and fats because they're [10:40] energy rich. [10:41] And that's great. That's why we like [10:43] nuts and meats and strawberries and [10:46] bananas and why we've been able to get [10:47] enough energy to survive an environment [10:51] that's generally been really scarce with [10:53] calories. [10:54] If you didn't care about that stuff, [10:56] you're not going to survive. But the [10:58] problem is that now with the processing, [11:00] the delivery mechanism for those carbs [11:03] and those fats is now mostly these [11:05] ultra-processed foods. And by that, this [11:07] is a food that when you look at the [11:09] ingredients, you know, many of them you [11:11] don't know what the heck they are, you [11:12] can't name them, you can't make it in [11:14] your own kitchen. Many of those products [11:16] are delivering these unnaturally intense [11:18] and concentrated combos of rapidly [11:22] absorbable carbohydrates and added fats. [11:26] That combination just does not exist in [11:29] nature and our brain never evolved to [11:32] handle that amount of intense reward [11:34] stimulation in a food. But it doesn't [11:36] just stop there. [11:38] The industry is really able to take a [11:40] lot of of strategies and do things where [11:44] they can enhance the sensory profile [11:47] through very intense chemistry where you [11:50] can get flavors that tell you ooh, this [11:52] is like a strawberry. But actually [11:55] there's no strawberry in it. Like I [11:56] always love Fruit Loops. Like there's no [11:58] fruit in Fruit Loops. You know so many [11:59] of these products give you the signal of [12:02] a food that exist in nature that your [12:04] brain was wired to care about. But it's [12:07] chemically engineered and and and a [12:10] factory. And when you get that that [12:13] really intense sensory flavors combined [12:16] with this really intense hit of refined [12:18] carbs, often refined carbs and fats, [12:21] it it really wakes the brain up in a way [12:24] where you start to crave that sensory [12:27] profile. You want the taste of the [12:28] Coca-Cola. You want the burn of the [12:30] Flaming Hot Cheeto. You want the [12:32] strawberry of the strawberry milkshake [12:34] that might not have any strawberries in [12:35] it. And and so you seek that out and you [12:38] crave that. [12:39] >> And there's a growing national [12:40] conversation about food policy. [12:43] What are your thoughts on Health and [12:45] Human Services Secretary Robert F. [12:47] Kennedy Jr.'s Make America Healthy Again [12:50] movement, particularly when it comes to [12:52] targeting certain food ingredients? [12:54] >> Yeah, so I I think they are tapping into [12:58] a real desire in this country that I [13:01] think goes across [13:03] political lines. I I again, I'm a mom [13:07] and I find when I go to the grocery [13:09] store, like the amount of [13:11] ultra-processed food that is flooding [13:13] the shelves and most of it is health [13:15] washed. There's a health claim. I mean, [13:17] I just drove by Dunkin' Donuts and it [13:18] was protein protein protein. It's it's [13:21] confusing for consumers out there. I I [13:25] any a party that doesn't really hear how [13:28] sick Americans are of feeling like [13:31] corporate profits are being [13:34] put ahead of [13:36] us and our children thriving and living [13:38] healthy lives is is going to miss the [13:40] boat. And I I would I would encourage [13:42] all of our political [13:45] um and and uh you know, kind of advocacy [13:47] and regulators to really attend to that. [13:49] We have polling um that if there's one [13:53] thing Americans can agree on is that the [13:54] food industry that the food supply and [13:56] the food industry don't have their best [13:58] interest at heart right now. [14:00] Um and so I it's it's encouraging to see [14:04] movement in this area. Um I think that a [14:09] lot of us really attend to the fact that [14:12] if you if we don't call out the role of [14:16] the industry and the way they're [14:18] flooding the environment and making it [14:20] really hard, especially if you don't [14:21] have a lot of money, if you are really [14:25] uh scraping to get enough food every [14:26] month, what's cheap, accessible, [14:28] affordable, and heavily marketed to you [14:31] I would argue isn't even real food in [14:34] many cases. So, I I'm really hoping to [14:36] see upstream policies that help change [14:40] change the the default of where [14:42] Americans get their calories. [14:45] >> And you were one of 43 global experts [14:48] who recently authored a three-paper [14:50] series on ultra-processed foods. [14:53] The research argued that the problem [14:54] isn't just an individual choice, but a [14:57] broader system shaped on corporate [14:59] interests rather than nutrition and [15:00] sustainability. [15:03] Can you give us like one or two of the [15:05] key findings and how the United States [15:07] compares to other countries? [15:08] >> Yeah, so [15:10] um the United States, we're such an [15:12] outlier. We're so bad. We're totally the [15:15] worst of the worst when it comes to how [15:17] much of our food supply is [15:18] ultra-processed. Um the current estimate [15:20] that it's about 67 to 70% of our food [15:23] supply as ultra-processed. [15:26] Um we see that we are most certainly the [15:29] most metabolically ill country [15:33] of any country in the world. And when [15:34] you track um how that has [15:38] gone up over time, it tracks with the [15:40] transition of our food supply to being [15:43] more ultra-processed. Um one thing a lot [15:46] of people don't know is in the 1970s and [15:48] '80s Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds, the [15:50] big tobacco companies, actually bought [15:52] up many of the major uh processed food [15:55] and beverage companies like Kraft and [15:58] General Foods. Um they created products [16:00] like Hawaiian Punch and Fig Newtons and [16:03] Lunchables. Uh they divested when the [16:05] heat started coming in the 2000s with [16:08] the obesity epidemic, but the science [16:10] really finds, especially in America, [16:13] that the know-how of the tobacco [16:15] industry in shaping our food supply has [16:18] just changed the DNA of the food that we [16:20] have available to us in grocery stores [16:22] and and corner stores and all of that. [16:25] Um and [16:27] where I see that we are also probably an [16:30] outlier in what we've done about it. I [16:32] mean, many other countries are really [16:34] taking this on in force. Um Chile is a [16:37] big one that puts big warning labels on [16:40] these products on the front, these huge [16:41] octagon stop signs that really help you [16:44] make an informed choice as a consumer [16:46] about it. Um the UK just passed a big [16:49] law about um you can't market these [16:51] unhealthy products anytime before 11:00 [16:54] p.m. to reduce exposure to children to [16:56] constantly getting these messages. Uh I [16:59] think there's so much we could do. We [17:01] also see in America that the [17:03] ultra-processed food and beverage [17:05] company uh spends more money lobbying [17:08] than tobacco, alcohol, or gambling. So, [17:10] there's a big reason why I think um the [17:12] power structure of why we haven't seen [17:15] the change that people really want and [17:17] need. Um, I really hope that's changing [17:20] and I I really see um [17:22] the motivation that people have for [17:24] wanting a better future for our kids. [17:26] >> Before we wrap up, let's bring it back [17:28] home to the University of Michigan. [17:30] Can you tell us about the Food and [17:32] Addiction Science and Treatment Lab, [17:34] also known as FAST Lab, located here on [17:36] campus? [17:38] When did it open and what have you [17:40] learned so far from its operations? [17:42] >> Oh, I feel so supported by Michigan and [17:45] building me this lab. Uh, [17:46] when I first got here, I they asked me, [17:48] you know, what are you thinking for a [17:49] lab? And I sent them a picture of a fast [17:51] food restaurant and I said, I want to [17:53] build a simulated fast food restaurant [17:55] um where it looks like you're walking [17:57] into a fast food restaurant. We can make [17:59] our own french fries and strawberry [18:01] milkshakes and cheeseburgers. And [18:03] Michigan said, okay. And uh you know, [18:05] scientifically that's really important. [18:07] Um, again, I trained in alcohol and we [18:10] had simulated bar labs and so it looked [18:12] like you were in a bar in the psych [18:15] department. And so I saw firsthand how [18:17] powerful it was to be in that cued [18:20] context space um to really be able to [18:24] make our research translate to the real [18:26] world. And so we've seen in the FAST Lab [18:28] that it, you know, we can I think it's [18:31] helpful to have the science, but we all [18:32] inherently know this that when people [18:35] are given a menu of food options and [18:37] they're and you know, uh a normal space, [18:41] uh you know, kind of office space, they [18:42] can make healthier choices. Once we get [18:44] them into our cued french fry smelling [18:47] simulated fast food restaurant, people [18:49] overwhelmingly choose the the [18:52] ultra-processed french fries and [18:54] cheeseburgers. Um, they eat about 400 [18:57] more calories um than in other [18:59] environments and it's driven really by [19:01] that craving. That the food doesn't [19:04] taste any better in our fast food [19:05] restaurant according to our [19:06] participants, but when they walk in and [19:09] they see all those cues, it gets that [19:10] dopamine system going and it makes you [19:13] crave. And it's part of why what we've [19:16] learned about why our modern food [19:17] environment can be so tricky is those [19:20] cues and those triggers are now [19:22] everywhere. And um so I think we have a [19:25] really nice scientific way to understand [19:27] how those cues kind of get in under the [19:29] skin and really set you up despite your [19:32] best intentions to uh not get the salad, [19:35] but instead get the the the [19:37] cheeseburger, french fry, strawberry [19:39] milkshake meal. [19:40] >> And then in the lab uh you're working [19:42] with students. Like how's that going so [19:43] far? [19:44] >> Yeah. [19:44] >> Oh, it's so good. Uh my students uh are [19:47] are so smart. They're such team players. [19:49] We actually, as part of really wanting [19:51] to set that environment, have our [19:53] undergrads dress up as little fast food [19:55] restaurant workers with the apron and [19:57] the little hat, and they make french [19:59] fries. I always walk down, and I'm like, [20:01] "Smells like french fries. We must be [20:03] getting data." [20:04] Uh and so I I the University of Michigan [20:07] undergrads and our doctoral students are [20:09] just fundamental in really making the [20:12] science work and allowing us to really [20:15] peel back uh the layers of understanding [20:18] why it's so hard to make healthy choices [20:21] in the modern world that we're living [20:23] in, so we can develop tools, strategies, [20:26] and policy suggestions, so people can [20:29] really live healthy and happy lives um [20:31] for, you know, themselves and the next [20:33] generation as well. [20:35] >> Yeah, sounds like a cool operation, and [20:36] uh definitely let me know when I can be [20:38] a tester there. [20:39] >> Absolutely. [20:40] >> Ashley, thank you so much for joining us [20:42] today and sharing about your research. [20:44] >> Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank [20:46] you for talking to me about it. [20:48] >> [music] [20:49] >> Thank you for listening to this episode [20:51] of Michigan Minds, which is produced by [20:53] Michigan News, a division of the Office [20:56] of the Vice President for [20:57] Communications.