【Muddy waters】纪录片——2000互联网泡沫：创业之神难逃泡沫幻影（下）

【Muddy waters】纪录片——2000互联网泡沫：创业之神难逃泡沫幻影（下） — 浑水摸鱼清源

浑水摸鱼清源

AI-assisted summary of 【Muddy waters】纪录片——2000互联网泡沫：创业之神难逃泡沫幻影（下） — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published:

Key ideas

  • 资本狂热与产品交付脱节：govworks.com在累计融资5000万美元并试图寻求高达1亿至2亿美元后续轮次期间，核心政务搜索功能在上线前夕频发低级错误，在产品体验与落地速度上面临被对手EZGov彻底超越的威胁。 (17:34)
  • 总部遭遇精准盗窃危机：公司曼哈顿总部在凌晨遭遇高度疑似商业间谍的恶意破门入侵，CEO办公室被翻乱且关键法律策略文件失窃，引发高层对平台遭恶意破坏与机密泄露的极度恐慌。 (25:00)
  • 创始人矛盾演变为权力清洗：伴随董事会因营收停滞施加的严厉问责，高管层权力分配与管理边界彻底失控，持有120万股的核心联合创始人Tom Herman最终被正式解雇并遭遇严格门禁安保驱逐。 (40:00)
  • 泡沫瓦解致公司归零破产：2000年4月股市暴跌与漫长的市政销售周期彻底掐断了外部造血路径，公司最终走向破产清算，股东权益清零，两位创始人的发小情谊亦化为乌有。 (57:30)

Detailed notes

## Background 该视频由UP主“浑水摸鱼清源”于2026年10月12日发布在哔哩哔哩平台，聚焦复盘2001年经典商业纪录片《Startup.com》所呈现的互联网泡沫历史。视频简介指出，曾估值近5000万美元的明星初创公司govworks.com在高光之后，因内部权力斗争、产品失控、风投施压及资金链断裂，最终演变为核心创始人出局与破产清算的创业挽歌。

## TL;DR 记录片下半部分展现了govworks.com在初期庆祝与宏大愿景之后，迅速遭遇核心功能故障、办公室被盗窃谍战阴影以及竞对EZGov步步紧逼的严峻现实。随着2000年4月资本市场暴跌与营收停滞，CEO Kalail与技术联合创始人Tom在产品范围、指挥权分配与家庭投入上的分歧彻底爆发，导致董事会介入并将Tom扫地出门。内耗平息后公司仍未能解决销售周期过长、基础设施成本臃肿及造血能力匮乏等致命缺陷，最终在资本泡沫破灭中资金链断裂破产，给创业者留下了资产归零与少年友情彻底毁灭的惨痛代价。

## Atmosphere & style 全片充斥着从盲目狂热跌入冰冷现实的窒息感与宿命悲凉，镜头近距离记录了从意气风发向总统递名片到被逐出办公室的巨大落差。两位自少年时代相识的发小创始人之间由信任互托演变为法律对峙、下达解雇函和门禁戒备，空气中弥漫着压抑的权术算计与深深的情感背叛。整部作品如同一场被资本与野心裹挟的慢动作车祸，在狂欢退潮后唯余一无所有的荒诞与人际纽带断裂的痛楚。

## Bulletin - [17:34](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1054s) 资本狂热与产品交付脱节：govworks.com在累计融资5000万美元并试图寻求高达1亿至2亿美元后续轮次期间，核心政务搜索功能在上线前夕频发低级错误，在产品体验与落地速度上面临被对手EZGov彻底超越的威胁。 - [25:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1500s) 总部遭遇精准盗窃危机：公司曼哈顿总部在凌晨遭遇高度疑似商业间谍的恶意破门入侵，CEO办公室被翻乱且关键法律策略文件失窃，引发高层对平台遭恶意破坏与机密泄露的极度恐慌。 - [40:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2400s) 创始人矛盾演变为权力清洗：伴随董事会因营收停滞施加的严厉问责，高管层权力分配与管理边界彻底失控，持有120万股的核心联合创始人Tom Herman最终被正式解雇并遭遇严格门禁安保驱逐。 - [57:30](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=3450s) 泡沫瓦解致公司归零破产：2000年4月股市暴跌与漫长的市政销售周期彻底掐断了外部造血路径，公司最终走向破产清算，股东权益清零，两位创始人的发小情谊亦化为乌有。

## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=0s) Kalail在28岁生日庆祝与公司夏令营团建中展现出急迫的雄心，Tom Herman的父亲回顾了首笔天使投资并见证两人从高中发小走向共同创业。 - [03:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=225s) 在电视台早间节目的镜头与公关包装面前，联合创始人Tom拒绝配合带有极权隐喻的口号手势，折射出光鲜企业包装下的个人分歧与心理重压。 - [08:15](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=495s) 主要竞争对手EZGov联合创始人Bryan Mundy突访govworks总部，表面看似友好的互赠文化衫互动之下，充斥着对彼此上线进度与商业间谍的暗中刺探。 - [11:15](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=675s) 面对EZGov抢先召开产品发布会的市场压力，Kalail发表“绝不认输”的全员讲话稳定军心，但私下里两位创始人均对风投回报考核与生存危机深感焦虑。 - [15:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=900s) 两位创始人在产品定义权与融资优先级上爆发激烈争吵，Tom坚持参与产品顶层设计并设立照顾女儿的家庭底线，拒绝全天候无休工作。 - [17:34](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1054s) 公开发布前夕核心“Ask”搜索引擎出现荒唐的匹配错误，Kalail对无法交差的半成品勃然大怒，并警告团队已有董事会成员对此极度不满。 - [22:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1365s) Kalail在高级别论坛上描绘互联网政务宏图，甚至在会后大胆向克林顿总统推销期权并邀请其卸任后加盟公司，将政治名流公关运作推向顶峰。 - [25:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1500s) 公司总部凌晨遭遇专业破门盗窃，系统日志显示工作站在3点21分被强制关机，CEO办公室及核心法律文件遭针对性窃取，引发恶性商业间谍恐慌。 - [30:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1800s) 2000年4月14日华尔街遭遇历史性暴跌拉开互联网泡沫破裂序幕，Kalail私下警告Tom，由于营收增长停滞，董事会已开始酝酿撤换管理层。 - [31:37](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1897s) 支付结算核心代码陷入返工困局，缺乏正式任命但享有同等话语权的“双CEO”模糊架构导致政令混乱，团队面临决策瘫痪。 - [34:10](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2050s) 因网站体验和稳定性落后于EzGov与Link2Gov，Kalail在华尔街和硅谷寻求2亿美元高估值融资时屡遭投资机构当面拒绝。 - [36:12](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2172s) 面对Kalail集权单核领导的要求，Tom指责对方不尊重自身20年的技术资历与联合领导地位，并下达退出通牒后选择休假离场。 - [38:40](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2320s) 在律师指导下，Tom拒绝接受董事会提出的三个月带薪休假缓冲方案，坚持不主动离职并要求换取大额现金买断补偿。 - [40:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2400s) Kalail正式送达书面解雇函，Tom在警告对方犯下毁灭性错误后被迫离职，彻底失去对其所参与创立公司的日常控制权。 - [45:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2700s) 管理层在解雇Tom后下达前台安保禁令并分发照片防范其进入，董事会更以没收剩余股权为威胁要求其彻底服从出局安排。 - [48:38](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2918s) 全员大会上Kalail回顾少年发小情谊宣布Tom离职，并试图通过恢复久违的晨间口号打气来掩饰组织内部难以愈合的信任裂痕。 - [53:30](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=3210s) 高层私下复盘承认人事斗争仅是次要矛盾，漫长的市政销售周期、臃肿的基础设施成本与造血循环的彻底缺位才是导致商业模式崩盘的死结。 - [57:30](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=3450s) 伴随泡沫破灭资本退潮，公司走向破产清算使所有股东与团队权益归零，昔日估值5000万美元的神话破灭，创始人的多年发小情谊亦不可逆转地瓦解。

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=0s) Birthday Toasts, Camp govWorks, and Early Momentum

The mood inside govWorks is euphoric as the team catches co-founder and CEO Kalail Isaza Tuzman by surprise with a company-wide birthday celebration. Visibly moved and momentarily speechless, Kalail reflects on turning 28, declaring with ambitious urgency that he still has a tremendous amount to accomplish before hitting 30. Raising his glass, he toasts his co-founder and lifelong friend Tom Herman—warmly referring to him as his "partner and Brother Rat"—before honoring the entire staff for turning their shared venture into a reality. The celebratory atmosphere peaks as an internal award is announced to a mock drumroll: the grand prize is presented to Jose and Ken for successfully closing the ACP deal.

The camaraderie extends out of the office into a rustic company retreat in New Hampshire designed like an authentic summer camp adventure. Welcoming the bleary-eyed employees early on a Saturday morning is Tom’s father, Richard Herman, serving as the honorary "camp director." Standing alongside Tom's mother, Susan Herman, Richard shares his deep personal pride in seeing Tom and Kalail build the company, recalling how the two spent their formative high school years under both family roofs, dreaming and scheming about their futures. Richard proudly reminds the room that he had the distinction of writing the very first seed check for the company. Despite the team having driven through the night, Richard rallies the room at five minutes to nine in the morning for a spirited camp song about purple lilacs and New Hampshire breezes, later leading them into a pine grove that carries a sacred, cathedral-like atmosphere ideal for quiet reflection and meditation.

Behind the joyful retreat, executive strain is already beginning to surface. In a heartfelt voicemail left for Tom immediately after the weekend, Kalail hails Tom as a "superhero" for pulling off such a morale-boosting retreat for the staff. However, he also thanks Tom for showing patience and flexibility while the two of them grapple with lingering tensions over leadership structure and executive authority—a preview of the friction brewing at the top. Kalail also mentions an upcoming PR coup arranged by his girlfriend Dora: a television crew from Univision’s national morning show, *Despierta América* ("Wake Up America"), is scheduled to film inside the govWorks office the next morning.

- **Founders' Milestone:** Kalail turns 28, expressing urgency to achieve monumental goals before turning 30. - **Key Win Celebrated:** Jose and Ken awarded grand recognition for closing the ACP deal. - **First Investor:** Richard Herman, Tom's father, reminisces on funding their high school dreams with govWorks' first check.

---

[03:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=225s) TV Cameras, Corporate Posturing, and Personal Doubts

The govWorks office transforms into a bustling television set as production begins for *Despierta América*. Staff members are coached to crowd tightly together toward the center of the frame so the camera captures maximum energy and visual density. The organizers instruct the staff to pump their fists and shout enthusiastic Spanish slogans on cue—booming out "¡Sí!", "¡Ganar!" (Win!), and "¡Trabajando!" (Working!). The staged enthusiasm turns briefly awkward when an organizer suggests raising clenched fists in unison; Tom Herman flatly refuses, objecting that it resembles a totalitarian gesture: "That's the symbol of the Nazi party. I'm not doing that. I'm serious. I'm not doing that."

Amid the corporate stagecraft, Kalail’s girlfriend, Dora, offers a candid and piercing perspective on the tech bubble's young elite. She observes the young men running govWorks donning sharp suits, cuff links, and executive pens, brandishing corporate credit cards, and playing the part of seasoned, worldly gentlemen. "They look so... grown-up gentlemen," she observes. "But you know what? They're not." Dora also speaks candidly about her domestic negotiations with Kalail. She desperately wants a puppy, but Kalail hedges, promising a dog only if she commits to moving into his apartment, only to pull back whenever she agrees. She hopes that if he gives the dog a name, he will bond with it and even take it to the office, but the rapid pace of the startup constantly complicates their relationship.

Late that night, around 1:00 AM, Kalail phones his mother, Annie, seeking an emotional sounding board. His mother gently questions whether he is truly in love with Dora. Kalail admits he is torn by emotional ambivalence, confessing that while he never stops caring for Dora, his attraction fluctuates unpredictably between intense attachment and emotional distance. He admits to being terrified of long-term commitment, particularly when Dora issues ultimatums that she either needs a puppy or a child. "That kind of thing freaks me out, Mom," he confesses, "because I don't want a puppy or a child." Later, Annie visits the govWorks office and is introduced to executive David Klein. When David praises Kalail for doing a decent job, Kalail jokes that his mother only values internal moral virtue over flashy outward corporate accomplishments, prompting Annie to note that outward success should ideally reflect inner integrity.

---

[08:15](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=495s) An Unexpected Visitor: EZGov Drops by govWorks HQ

The high-stakes nature of the emerging e-government sector suddenly arrives at govWorks’ front doorstep in the form of Bryan Mundy, co-founder and chairman of their arch-rival, Atlanta-based EZGov.com. Mundy drops by unannounced at the Manhattan headquarters while visiting New York from his 17th and Peachtree office. His surprise entrance creates immediate buzz and suspicion across the floor; govWorks employees instantly recognize his face from the competitor's website they monitor obsessively every day, unsure whether this is an olive branch or an aggressive act of corporate espionage.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Competitive Encounter at govWorks HQ accDescr: Flow showing the surprise encounter between EZGov chairman Bryan Mundy and the govWorks team.

subgraph Competitor["Rival: EZGov.com"] BM["Bryan Mundy\n(Chairman / Co-Founder)"] end

subgraph GovWorks["govWorks.com HQ"] Staff["Office Staff\n(Recognizes Mundy from website)"] DK["David Klein\n(Inquires about launch plans)"] SC["Sean Corr\n(Jokes about planted listening bugs)"] end

BM -->|"Surprise Drop-in Visit"| Staff Staff -->|"Alerts Executives"| DK DK <-->|"Exchanges corporate swag & banter"| BM SC -->|"Humorous tension & probing questions"| BM ```

David Klein greets Mundy with cautious, barbed courtesy, asking what major trade secret he has come to uncover and bluntly pressing him on EZGov's impending public launch schedule. Mundy deflects effortlessly with Southern charm, claiming he dropped in out of pure goodwill and curiosity. "You’ve got to get to know me then. That’s exactly the kind of person I am," Mundy insists, adding that farther down the road they might look back and appreciate his friendly disposition.

The interaction walks a razor-thin line between genial networking and corporate rivalry. Sean Corr joins the conversation, jokingly asking Mundy whether he has already planted listening bugs in their office. Mundy laughs it off, assuring the team that EZGov has never slandered govWorks and only recently learned about them in the press. Before departing, the competitors exchange branded company t-shirts. Klein playfully cautions Mundy against wearing a govWorks shirt back into his own Atlanta office, while Mundy promises to send back an EZGov shirt in return as a friendly souvenir before slipping out the door.

---

[11:15](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=675s) "I Refuse to Lose": Kalail Rallies the Troops Amid Market Pressure

Shortly after Mundy’s reconnaissance visit, EZGov holds an aggressive press conference announcing the launch of its online government portal, eager to position EZGov.com as the definitive digital destination for public sector transactions. Facing an anxious govWorks workforce rattled by their competitor beating them to public launch, Kalail Isaza Tuzman gathers the entire team for an electrifying, defiant town hall address. Kalail completely flips the narrative, telling his employees that EZGov’s rush to market is not a display of power, but an unmistakable sign of panic.

Kalail argues that EZGov is simply imitating govWorks’ terminology, concepts, and footsteps, noting that "imitation is the best form of flattery." Then, with intense, raw conviction, Kalail delivers an ultimatum of sheer will: > "I refuse. Refuse. Refuse to lose. Some people in this room who have known me for quite a long time [know] when I get my fingernails into the wall, you have to drag me away. I will not, not lose this fight. So hang with me. This is going to be a fun ride."

Tom Herman steps forward to reinforce Kalail's leadership. Acknowledging that the room felt significantly more anxious just moments earlier, Tom credits Kalail’s magnetic ability to galvanize a team, remarking that he has never seen Kalail lose a fight either—"except possibly with me." Tom cautions the company that when pursuing a massive, lucrative market, turbulence is inevitable: "I could feel it’s going to get bumpy... rough and tumble." Yet behind the defiant speeches, the brutal realities of venture capital and software delivery weigh heavily on leadership. The founders privately acknowledge waking up every morning with a morbid dread about whether the company will survive another day, knowing full well that their venture capital backers expect massive returns, not charity, while grueling disputes over software feature scoping threaten their strategic roadmap.

[15:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=900s) Strategic Scope, Founder Bandwidth, and Personal Sacrifices

A sharp strategic friction emerges between co-founders Tom Herman and Kaleil Isaza Tuzman over the definition of the product scope and the allocation of executive bandwidth. Tom argues that product scoping cannot simply be outsourced or handed off, asserting, "I think that my strategic input into the building of our product is important." When challenged on whether product strategy outweighs securing venture capital, Tom maintains that while it is not more important than fundraising, he was deeply involved in creating the original vision and cannot feel comfortable moving forward without hands-on involvement. Kaleil counters that the issue stems from executive capacity and perhaps pride: "Now, we might be at a place where we have to compromise to a certain degree... I think part of it is a compromising ego." Tom firmly denies it is an ego issue, reiterating that product vision requires his direct stamp.

When the discussion turns toward scheduling late-night or weekend blocks to hammer out product specs, the demands of startup life collide directly with family commitments. Kaleil suggests working overnight from 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. or blocking out the entire weekend. Tom flatly refuses to surrender his personal life: "I'm not available for weekend blocks. I'm with my daughter on weekends. End of story." The emotional toll of this boundary is immediately evident in an intimate scene at home with his young daughter, Tia. Sitting together as she plays and climbs onto his lap, Tom gently breaks the news that he has to leave again that very night. Tia is visibly upset, asking where he is going, while Tom tries to comfort her by reading a quick book before handing her off to her grandmother, noting sadly that she is not usually this distressed when he departs for work.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Product Scoping vs Executive Bandwidth Conflict accDescr: Diagram illustrating the founder conflict between product vision and venture financing bandwidth. subgraph S1["Founder Conflict"] A["Tom Herman<br/>Insists on shaping product scope & vision"] B["Kaleil Isaza Tuzman<br/>Pushes to prioritize financing & speed"] end subgraph S2["Bandwidth Impasse"] C["Work Schedule Clashes<br/>Late-night & weekend crunch proposed"] D["Family Boundary<br/>Tom refuses weekends to care for daughter Tia"] end A --- B B --> C A --> D ```

[17:34](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1054s) Pre-Launch Testing and the Broken "Ask" Search Engine

As the team prepares for a critical public rollout scheduled for Monday, internal testing reveals severe, embarrassing failures in the platform's natural-language search functionality, dubbed "Ask." The QA schedule calls for rigorous site testing over Saturday and Sunday, but the real-world queries produce comically broken results. When testers enter "parking tickets," the engine prompts back: "Help us refine your question. By Park, do you mean last name Park or first name Park?" Even worse, typing in "speeding tickets" produces the contact information for Charles Speed, the personnel director in Amarillo, Texas. Previous tests had similarly asked whether "Mayor" was a user's first or last name.

Kaleil is beside himself with fury at the prospect of presenting an unusable product to stakeholders and high-profile investors. Addressing the room, he declares bluntly that the "Ask" search feature simply does not work and that releasing the site in its current state is out of the question. With tensions running high, he lays out the massive financial and strategic stakes on the line:

- GovWorks has already raised $50 million and is currently in the market attempting to secure an additional $100 million. - The company is racing to dominate what Kaleil terms "the largest uncharted territory on the net," where the ultimate market leader will become a multi-billion-dollar enterprise. - Kaleil warns the team that board members are already irate, emphasizing, "There's some very angry board members. And I don't want that anger to come onto my head."

[20:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1200s) Crunch Time Friction and the Live Launch of GovWorks

The pressure cooker of launch weekend sparks logistical spats among the leadership over testing protocols and vendor management. David, leading aspects of site readiness, attempts to dismiss the testing team from the office, telling them testing on-site is closed and they can finish monitoring from home. Tom vehemently pushes back, insisting that the entire test team remain in the office to maintain focus and momentum: "This is much more efficient. We have a lot of people here. We have momentum. We're going into a big week. We're paying them eight and a half million dollars." Although the back-and-forth breeds temporary confusion on the floor, Kaleil steps in, decides to keep the floor open, and apologizes to the staff for the mixed signals.

Momentum builds as the team executes a crucial end-to-end trial: paying an actual parking ticket through the system. After nervous anticipation, the screen flashes "Transaction complete," prompting relieved praise for the underlying engine ("It is a cool little engine"). With the live deployment greenlit for that night, Tom gathers the exhausted engineering team to express profound gratitude for their around-the-clock weekend shifts, inviting everyone out for celebratory beers. Looking back on the grueling marathon, Tom acknowledges Kaleil's persistence: "Kalil was right, we should have pushed for this, and we did, and we're there."

[22:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1365s) Kaleil's High-Profile Moment with President Clinton

Basking in GovWorks' burgeoning profile, Kaleil takes the stage at a prominent public forum, sharing a panel with distinguished figures including Harvard Professor Robert Putnam, the former dean of the Kennedy School of Government where Kaleil had previously studied. Addressing the audience, Kaleil delivers a grand vision of civic tech, declaring that when it comes to democratic participation, "there's nothing that can fulfill really... atomic level representative democracy like the Internet."

Following the panel, Kaleil enjoys an extraordinary one-on-one conversation with President Bill Clinton. Back among colleagues, the team jokes about Kaleil's shameless networking and audacity. Team members rib him about reports that he boldly handed the President of the United States a GovWorks business card. Kaleil gleefully confirms the rumor, admitting he went so far as to pitch Clinton on joining the startup: - Kaleil outlined the company's executive structure and stock option packages. - He told Clinton that when he finished his term and moved to New York—especially if Hillary Clinton won her Senate race—he should consider taking an executive role at GovWorks.

[25:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1500s) Romantic Strain and the Mysterious Office Break-In

The relentless operational tempo takes an escalating toll on Kaleil's personal life. His partner, Dorita, laments how completely startup duties consume him, noting that while Kaleil accuses her of "measuring love in phone calls," all she asks for is a brief, reassuring check-in to confirm he is safe when disappearing for days at a time. The emotional strain only intensifies during brief, distant interactions where planned vacations are continuously postponed, and personal time is swallowed up by emergency emails and jailhouse municipal processing tasks.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: GovWorks Office Break-in Incident accDescr: Sequence of events surrounding the suspected corporate espionage break-in at GovWorks. A["Night Break-in<br/>Between 1:00 AM & 6:00 AM<br/>PC logged shutdown at 3:21 AM"] --> B["Targeted Infiltration<br/>5th floor broken lock exploited<br/>Security cables detached"] B --> C["Compromised Assets<br/>Kaleil's office ransacked<br/>Legal strategy files stolen"] C --> D["Critical Threat Assessment<br/>Fears of corporate espionage &<br/>site redirection to adult content"] ```

That domestic strain is suddenly overtaken by corporate catastrophe. Early in the morning, Kaleil urgently telephones board member and advisor Andres to report that GovWorks' headquarters has suffered a targeted break-in:

- **Targeted Sabotage:** Kaleil's private office was forcibly entered and ransacked, with hardware security cables deliberately disconnected and specific legal files stolen from his desk and filing cabinets. Patrick's office was similarly targeted. - **Premeditation:** System logs confirm a workstation was forcibly shut down at precisely 3:21 a.m. The perpetrators appeared to exploit a malfunctioning lock on the fifth-floor elevator access, knowing exactly whose desks to search. - **Threat Assessment:** Rather than a random burglary, leadership interprets the intrusion as corporate espionage. Founders worry the thieves acquired proprietary data that could allow competitors to sabotage the company or hijack the live platform (such as redirecting traffic to pornographic websites). - **Founder Reactions:** Faced with the chilling realization that the breach could be a "fatal lesson," Tom attempts to project pragmatic resilience, reminding Kaleil that they still have their health, comfortable homes, and external security experts arriving to handle remediation.

[30:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1800s) Wall Street Plunge and the Impending Boardroom Reckoning

On Friday, April 14, 2000—ominously coinciding with the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic—Wall Street suffered a historic, record-setting crash. Financial commentators framed the brutal drop as a "Titanic struggle" for shell-shocked investors, noting that market losses had never been this messy or severe. Against this grim macroeconomic backdrop, Kalail Isaza Tuzman pulls his co-founder Tom Herman aside to deliver a grim assessment of govworks.com's internal health. Kalail makes it clear that the enterprise is in grave jeopardy, driven not merely by stock option depreciation, but by stagnating revenue figures and mounting operational headaches. He confides that he intentionally withheld the full severity of the situation from the broader executive committee, but felt Tom needed to grasp the urgency firsthand.

Kalail reveals that he has weathered brutal confrontations with board members over the preceding days, directly warning Tom: "I think we're personally at risk." When Tom asks if the board is seriously considering firing them, Kalail flatly confirms it is the board's prerogative. While Tom admits deep concern about missed revenue milestones, he remains outwardly detached and unbothered by board politics, asserting that while he could theoretically lose his job, it would surprise him and "wouldn't be the end of the world." Kalail, visibly frustrated by his partner’s casual demeanor during an existential payroll crisis, emphasizes that this is an immediate, full-blown emergency.

- **Macroeconomic Shock:** April 14, 2000 market plunge (anniversary of the Titanic disaster) initiates the collapse of the dot-com bubble. - **Executive Threat:** Kalail warns Tom that the board of directors is openly questioning executive leadership and weighing terminations over missed revenue targets.

---

[31:37](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1897s) Product Breakdowns and the Co-CEO Identity Crisis

As the executive team debates the fundamental specifications of the govworks portal, deep fractures emerge between executive expectations and technical reality. The core functional requirements of the platform are stripped down to their most basic transactional elements: processing credit cards, debit cards, and electronic checks, capturing payment data, and transmitting those records securely to local municipalities. Despite the apparent simplicity of these goals, engineering deliverables are severely behind schedule. When an engineer insists that the current codebase simply does not work, Tom pushes back defensively, claiming the software functions adequately and only requires refinement for future scalability. Accusations fly that developers are being forced to stop work and wait ten days for shifting management directives rather than building a cohesive system from scratch.

This friction spills into a tense philosophical dispute over operational hierarchy. Tom speaks openly about the confusion regarding overlapping leadership boundaries, revealing the ambiguous nature of his partnership with Kalail. While they do not officially share the title of co-CEO on paper, Tom asserts that an informal founding pact grants them equal say over every major strategic decision. Because of this arrangement, Tom routinely exercises authority far beyond engineering architecture, touching general operations and management. However, as stress mounts and senior staff members approach nervous breakdowns from conflicting directives, the lack of a defined single leader paralyzes the organization.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Co-Founder Friction at govworks accDescr: Diagram illustrating the escalating leadership divide between Kalail and Tom over strategic priorities and control.

subgraph ExternalPressure["External Market Pressures"] A["Dot-Com Market Crash<br/>(April 2000)"] --> C["Board of Directors Scrutiny"] B["Rival Platforms Surging<br/>(EzGov, Link2Gov)"] --> C end

subgraph InternalDivide["Co-Founder Operational Split"] C --> D["Kalail Isaza Tuzman<br/>(Focus: $200M Raise, Board Demands)"] C --> E["Tom Herman<br/>(Focus: Tech Architecture, Co-CEO Authority)"] D <-->|"Clashing Priorities & Authority"| E end

subgraph CrisisOutcomes["Product & Governance Impasse"] D --> F["Engineering Friction & Leadership Consolidation"] E --> G["Legal Standoff & Termination Letter"] end ```

---

[34:10](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2050s) Competitive Humiliation: Falling Behind EzGov and Link2Gov

Kalail sounds an urgent alarm to the executive staff, warning that govworks is being completely outclassed by direct competitors such as EzGov and Link2Gov. In visceral terms, he tells the team: "Right now... we are getting blown out of the water. Our site is not as good as our competitors' site... and that should scare the living daylights out of all of us." Staff members express mutual frustration, countering that engineering needs clear, concrete marching orders rather than vague demands to simply "make the site fantastic."

Kalail counters by describing the harsh reality of pitch meetings on Wall Street and Silicon Valley. When trying to solicit $200 million in venture funding at an aggressive valuation, prospective investors inevitably open their browsers to inspect the live portal. Upon encountering a clunky, unstable interface, investors immediately benchmark govworks against slicker competitors like EzGov and Link2Gov. Kalail laments that he and Jose are trapped on the front lines absorbing these devastating rejections daily, warning the team that product deficiencies are inflicting damage that could soon deliver a fatal blow to the firm.

- **Key Competitors:** EzGov and Link2Gov are highlighted as having vastly superior, fully functioning municipal portals. - **Capital Raising Barrier:** Kalail's efforts to secure a $200 million funding round are derailed whenever investors test the unpolished govworks website.

---

[36:12](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2172s) The Partnership Fractures: Authority, Resentment, and Ultimatum

The tension culminates in an intimate, raw confrontation between Kalail and Tom. Tom concedes that he is not a day-to-day project manager or hands-on software coder, which was why he initially championed hiring Vasu to run engineering operations. However, Tom feels increasingly sidelined and undermined by Kalail's unilateral management style. He confronts Kalail directly over a fundamental lack of respect for his executive standing: "You don't respect my authority... I spent the last 20 years of my life on technology, and now after I get to the point where I'm able to build an organization to do that... If we're co-CEOs, then we're co-CEOs. But don't tell me anything different."

Tom issues a sharp ultimatum: if Kalail no longer views him as a full co-leader, he is willing to walk away rather than endure diminished status. Kalail expresses personal affection—telling Tom, "You know that I love you"—yet remains unyielding about the business necessity of a single command structure. Emotionally exhausted, Tom announces he will take a two-week vacation to step away from the escalating drama, while privately planning his next legal and financial maneuvers.

---

[38:40](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2320s) Legal Posturing and Demands for a Cash Settlement

Realizing his position inside the company is collapsing, Tom contacts an external advisor named Alex to navigate his exit strategy. He explains that the board and Kalail are aggressively working to consolidate corporate leadership under a single CEO, making Tom's independent nature an inconvenient obstacle. While the board formally requests that Tom take a three-month paid leave of absence with continued stock vesting, Tom views this as a stalling tactic designed to weaken his leverage. Instead, he decides to negotiate a comprehensive severance settlement immediately rather than waiting out a probationary exile.

Meanwhile, other team members reflect bittersweetly on Tom's contributions, acknowledging that he was the visionary who gave them their initial start and logged grueling 20-hour workdays for over a year. Despite this loyalty, they reluctantly concede that removing Tom may be the correct institutional move for govworks' survival. Upon consulting an independent attorney, Tom’s strategy hardens. His legal counsel issues strict instructions: do not voluntarily abandon the office premises, demand all disciplinary actions in writing, and condition any voluntary exit on formal terms.

- **Board Proposal:** Three months of paid leave with continued stock vesting to ease Tom out of management. - **Tom's Counter-Strategy:** Retains legal counsel, refuses to vacate his desk, and demands a substantial cash buyout before executing any departure agreement.

---

[40:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2400s) Formal Eviction: The Final Confrontation in the Office

Adhering strictly to his attorney's counsel, Tom returns to the govworks offices and informs Kalail that he will not take a voluntary leave or step down until formal written notice is delivered. Kalail expresses disappointment that their friendship has devolved into legal sparring, urging Tom to keep the dispute quiet so as not to destabilize morale among rank-and-file employees. Tom remains defiant, insisting on an exit package that includes a significant cash settlement. When friends suggest he simply step away for a month to clear his head, Tom highlights his massive financial stake, arguing that with 1.2 million shares on the line, he cannot sit idly while Vasu’s management risks provoking an engineering mutiny.

Tom continues reporting to work, busying himself with municipal integrations, including the Louisiana State Portal project alongside AMS (American Management Systems) and Microsoft. The uneasy standoff ends abruptly when Kalail delivers a formal written letter requesting Tom's termination. Facing the official paperwork, Tom makes one last attempt to negotiate, warning Kalail that without a cash payout, the separation will become exceptionally bitter. Defending his actions, Tom asserts that Kalail is making a monumental mistake, but ultimately concedes: "I understand that you need to run the business... so that's your prerogative. Thanks for the letter. Bye." With the handover of the letter, Tom Herman is officially ousted from the company he co-founded.

- **Equity Stake:** Tom holds 1.2 million shares in govworks.com, raising the stakes of his potential forfeiture or settlement. - **Key Accounts Worked:** Tom's final assignments include the Louisiana State Portal partnership with AMS and Microsoft. - **Resolution:** Kalail and the board bypass further informal mediation, serving Tom with a written request for termination and sealing his departure.

[45:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2700s) 驱逐联合创始人与安保升级

公司内部的权力清洗进入白热化阶段。管理层迅速启动了针对联合创始人 Tom Herman 的全面安保防范措施。办公室内部气氛高度紧绷，行政人员与安保人员在走廊和前台频繁交接，确认 Tom 已经离开公司大楼。管理层下达指令，从即刻起启动严格的门禁流程：所有员工进出大楼必须出示工卡证件；前台安保人员被分发了带有 Tom 照片的安保备忘录，并获得明确警告，"无论在任何情况下，绝不允许任何人花言巧语蒙混过关"，一旦被解雇的当事人强行出现，安保必须立即将其强行驱逐出大楼。

在电话与私下交谈中，Kaleo 和董事会资深成员 Joel 的强硬立场被彻底暴露。Kaleo 引述了投资人兼董事 Joel 的原话：如果 Tom 表现得像个明事理的成年人（a mensch），并且继续做对公司有建设性的事，董事会愿意极其慷慨地保留其约半数的权益（在一年半的时间内折算为其全部所有权的约三分之二）；但如果 Tom 胆敢像个无赖般到处找麻烦、表现得像个在成年人世界里胡闹的小孩，那他就将一无所获，"得到他应得的下场"。董事会对 Tom 的信任已彻底归零。

在与 Tom 的最后摊牌与通话中，Kaleo 将责任推卸为 Tom 听信了"糟糕的法律咨询"： - Tom 拒绝在没有正式解雇信（termination letter）的情况下主动休假或离开办公室，导致局势失去缓冲余地。 - Kaleo 坚称自己"绝不想解雇你"，但认为 Tom 的暂时离场是公司运转的绝对前提，坚称这不是要夺走 Tom 的金钱或尊严。 - Kaleo 声称哪怕公司最终失败，也必须确保管理层尽到了所有促成成功的义务。

[48:38](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2918s) 全员大会通报与晨间口号的讽刺

Kaleo 召集了全体员工大会，正式宣布联合创始人 Tom Herman 自即日起不再参与公司的任何日常运营管理。站在台前的 Kaleo 表现得极度沉重而复杂，向全体员工深情回顾了他与 Tom 自十四五岁相识至今的深厚发小情谊，坦言这是自己人生中最艰难的时刻之一，"他和我一起白手起家建立了这家公司，就像大家共同建立它一样"。

面对台下员工关于两位创始人私人关系现状的疑问，Kaleo 坦承自己"真的不知道"。为了掩盖团队内部撕裂的尴尬，并试图安抚动荡的人心，Kaleo 提议"为了向 Tom 致敬"，由他亲自带领大家重温公司传统的晨间打气口号（cheer）。在长达数月未曾喊口号之后，Kaleo 强颜欢笑地在台上高声领喊，而台下稀稀拉拉的回应更显苍白与荒诞。

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 创始人决裂与权力重组流程 accDescr: 展现联合创始人Tom被董事会与Kaleo联合驱逐并剥夺日常管理权的流程。

subgraph 冲突激化 A["战略路线分歧<br/>与高管信任危机"] --> B["Tom拒绝主动休假<br/>要求正式解雇函"] end

subgraph 权力清理 B --> C["管理层下发解雇信<br/>启动安保戒备/封锁门禁"] C --> D["董事会下达最后通牒<br/>(妥协保留部分股权 vs 净身出局)"] end

subgraph 秩序重整 D --> E["全员大会正式通报<br/>解除Tom一切日常职权"] E --> F["Kaleo重揽领导权<br/>形式化晨会打气掩盖裂痕"] end ```

[51:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=3060s) 母子夜谈：权谋政治与失落的价值观

离开 GovWorks 之后，Tom 回到母亲家中借宿休养。脱离了充满高压与欺瞒的办公室斗争，母子之间展开了一场直击心灵的长谈。看着身穿紫色新睡衣的 Tom，母亲直言不讳地指出，GovWorks 那种充斥着权术政治（power politics）的环境让她极度反胃。

在母亲眼中，Kaleo 是一个极端进取、不择手段达成目的的"马基雅维利主义者"（Machiavellian）。母亲提醒 Tom，他从小接受的家庭教育是"人永远高于事物"（people came before things），人生的重心在于关怀他人的情感与福祉，而那个充斥着资本贪婪的新兴商业世界完全不在乎个人的真实情感。

Tom 承认自己此前一直对母亲报喜不报忧，哪怕周四晚上刚被公司清洗出局，在电话里也仅仅轻描淡写地回答"一切都好"。母亲心疼地表示，她为儿子终于结束了那段不健康的生活而感到欣慰，因为那种冷酷的商业环境已经严重扭曲了 Tom 的本性；而 Tom 也若有所思地承认，潜意识里自己或许早就想要寻找一个解脱的出口。

[53:30](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=3210s) 泡沫破裂前夕的业务崩溃死局

就在管理层忙于内斗排挤 Tom 时，GovWorks 的真实基本面正在以惊人的速度滑向深渊。公司高层在私下复盘时承认，Tom 的人事危机在公司面临的一连串致命问题中"仅仅排在第八位"，核心业务早已经全线溃败： - **营收停滞不前（Flat revenues）**：无论前期估值炒得多高，真实的政务收费转化率极低。 - **臃肿的基础设施成本（Bloated infrastructure）**：过早搭建昂贵的服务器架构与庞大的人员配置，持续吞噬流动现金。 - **漫长失控的销售周期（Protracted sales cycles）**：与地方政府官僚机构打交道的谈判周期远超最初预期。 - **极其复杂的系统实施（Complex implementation）**：各地政府的旧有系统数据兼容极难落地。 - **造血功能彻底缺失**：公司完全没有一条清晰的现金流回正路径（no clear path to cash），原本寄希望于挽救局面的几起外部收购方案也处于告吹边缘。

在与伴侣 Tia 的交谈中，Tom 倾诉了自己被迫出局的不甘。面对被剥夺权力的屈辱，Tom 坦言这从来不是为了股权或钱，而是为了自己倾注全部心血所建造的事业；然而他也痛心地表示，如果继续下去必须以彻底牺牲个人情谊为代价，他"宁愿看到 GovWorks 彻底倒闭，也不愿摧毁人性与感情"。在这一场狂热的资本豪赌中，他最无法忘怀的，正是合伙人当面告诉他"大家不再信任你"的那一刻背叛。

[57:30](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=3450s) 财务破产、一无所有与幻影终章

GovWorks 的命运无可挽回地走向了终点。随着 2000 年互联网泡沫彻底瓦解，资本市场彻底对没有造血能力的互联网初创公司关闭了大门。公司的残局只剩下三个残酷的选项：卖身变卖资产、寻求无人愿意提供的接盘融资，或者直接申请破产清算（sell, finance, or bankruptcy）。原本指望逐步平稳收尾的幻想破灭，尽管业务端好不容易在部分城市落地出现了一丝转机，但资金链断裂让一切努力化为泡影。

在历经数千万美元的融资狂欢与近 5000 万美元的虚幻估值巅峰后，留给创业团队的结局是残酷的： - **资产清零**：最终的清算结果是所有股东和创始人拿到"绝对的一无所有（Zero. Absolutely nothing）"，甚至连股票残值都不复存在。 - **人际纽带的彻底毁灭**：面对曾经共事的伙伴 Dora 远走佛罗里达等惨烈代价，两位核心创始人最终承认，整整两年的创业狂热中，最惨痛的代价不是失去资本，也不是辜负投资人的信任，而是他们两人之间自少年时代起建立的珍贵友谊被彻底摧毁。

GovWorks 最终沦为互联网泡沫时代最具代表性的一曲创业挽歌。从野心勃勃颠覆政务服务、享受政商名流追捧，到内耗夺权、业务停滞、资金枯竭与破产清算，创业神话在泡沫幻影的碎裂声中惨淡谢幕。

## Notable quotes > [03:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=225s) That's the symbol of the Nazi party. I'm not doing that. I'm serious. I'm not doing that. — Tom Herman

> [03:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=225s) They look so... grown-up gentlemen. But you know what? They're not. — Dora

> [03:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=225s) That kind of thing freaks me out, Mom, because I don't want a puppy or a child. — Kalail Isaza Tuzman

> [08:15](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=495s) You’ve got to get to know me then. That’s exactly the kind of person I am — Bryan Mundy

> [11:15](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=675s) I refuse. Refuse. Refuse to lose. Some people in this room who have known me for quite a long time [know] when I get my fingernails into the wall, you have to drag me away. I will not, not lose this fight. So hang with me. This is going to be a fun ride. — Kalail Isaza Tuzman

> [15:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=900s) I think that my strategic input into the building of our product is important. — Tom Herman

> [15:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=900s) I'm not available for weekend blocks. I'm with my daughter on weekends. End of story. — Tom Herman

> [17:34](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1054s) There's some very angry board members. And I don't want that anger to come onto my head. — Kaleil Isaza Tuzman

> [22:45](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1365s) there's nothing that can fulfill really... atomic level representative democracy like the Internet. — Kaleil Isaza Tuzman

> [30:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=1800s) I think we're personally at risk. — Kalail Isaza Tuzman

> [34:10](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2050s) Right now... we are getting blown out of the water. Our site is not as good as our competitors' site... and that should scare the living daylights out of all of us. — Kalail Isaza Tuzman

> [36:12](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2172s) You don't respect my authority... I spent the last 20 years of my life on technology, and now after I get to the point where I'm able to build an organization to do that... If we're co-CEOs, then we're co-CEOs. But don't tell me anything different. — Tom Herman

> [40:00](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC?t=2400s) I understand that you need to run the business... so that's your prerogative. Thanks for the letter. Bye. — Tom Herman

## Mentioned govWorks.com, Startup.com (2001), Kalail Isaza Tuzman, Tom Herman, Dora, Annie, Richard Herman, Susan Herman, David Klein, Sean Corr, Bryan Mundy, EZGov.com, Link2Gov, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Robert Putnam, Harvard Kennedy School of Government, Despierta América, Univision, American Management Systems (AMS), Microsoft, Joel, Vasu

## Video description 【Muddy waters】 纪录片——2000互联网泡沫：创业之神难逃泡沫幻影（下） Startup.com (2001)

互联网创业浪潮下，早期企业经历着野蛮生长与残酷洗牌。govworks.com作为当年备受瞩目的初创公司，曾一度冲刺达到近5000万美元的估值，并身处586亿美元的广阔垂直市场中。然而，从最初的激情口号到内部权力斗争，从风投的步步紧逼到最终核心创始人的出局与公司破产，光鲜外表下隐藏着怎样的致命危机？本文带你深度复盘互联网泡沫时代的真实创业挽歌。

市场机遇与初期高光 govworks.com瞄准了地方政府与公众交互的庞大垂直市场，仅纽约一地的停车罚单业务就拥有约5亿美元的市场规模，整体潜在市场空间高达586亿美元。在获得多轮融资后，公司估值一路飙升至近5000万美元，团队一度踌躇满志，试图彻底颠覆传统政务办理模式，成为21世纪最具标杆意义的互联网巨头。

内部权力冲突与核心裂痕 随着业务快速推进，两位核心创始人Tom与Kaleo在公司战略、产品方向及日常管理上逐渐产生严重分歧。频繁的公开争吵与路线之争削弱了团队凝聚力。伴随风投机构的介入以及董事会压力的陡增，内部派系斗争不断升级，最终演变成针对联合创始人Tom的残酷驱逐与离职风波，友情与信任在利益纠葛中被消磨殆尽。

业务执行困境与资金链断裂 尽管前期融资高达数千万美元，但由于产品功能频繁返工、网站核心搜索功能故障频发、销售周期过长以及巨额的基础设施开销，公司始终未能建立健康的盈利和现金流循环。随着2000年互联网泡沫破裂和行业竞争对手的步步紧逼，公司最终陷入财务绝境，走向了无可挽回的破产清算结局。

投资启示： 严格把控现金流：在企业运营中切忌盲目烧钱，需建立清晰的现金流回正路径，确保财务健康。 明确团队分工与决策机制：合伙人之间必须建立高效且统一的权责划分与沟通闭环，避免内部矛盾公开化。 聚焦核心产品体验：确保上线产品的稳定性和用户核心需求的高效交付，切忌因盲目扩张而忽视基础功能质量。

简洁时间轴 [00:00] 公司估值突破5000万美元并举办庆祝活动 [25:01] 办公室遭遇神秘盗窃与潜在商业间谍危机 [30:36] 营收增长停滞与董事会信任危机彻底爆发 [45:29] 联合创始人Tom被解除职务并遭驱逐出局 [58:16] 互联网泡沫破裂导致最终财务破产清算

[Source](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1W1hD6YEtC)

中文简报

Muddy Waters纪录片——2000年互联网泡沫：创业之神难逃泡沫幻影（下） 纪录片下半部分展现了govworks.com在初期庆祝与宏大愿景之后，迅速遭遇核心功能故障、办公室被盗谍战阴影以及竞对EZGov步步紧逼的严峻现实。随着2000年4月资本市场暴跌与营收停滞，CEO Kalail与技术联合创始人Tom在产品范围、指挥权分配与家庭投入上的分歧彻底爆发，导致董事会介入并将Tom扫地出门。内耗平息后公司仍未能解决销售周期过长、基础设施成本臃肿及造血能力匮乏等致命缺陷，最终在资本泡沫破灭中资金链断裂破产，给创业者留下了资产归零与少年友情彻底破裂的惨痛代价。 资本狂热与产品交付脱节：govworks.com在累计融资5000万美元并试图寻求高达1亿至2亿美元后续轮次期间，核心政务搜索功能在上线前夕频发低级错误，在产品体验与落地速度上面临被对手EZGov彻底超越的威胁。 (17:34) 总部遭遇精准盗窃危机：公司曼哈顿总部在凌晨遭遇高度疑似商业间谍的恶意破门入侵，CEO办公室被翻乱且关键法律策略文件失窃，引发高层对平台遭恶意破坏与机密泄露的极度恐慌。 (25:00) 创始人矛盾演变为权力清洗：伴随董事会因营收停滞施加的严厉问责，高管层权力分配与管理边界彻底失控，持有120万股的核心联合创始人Tom Herman最终被正式解雇并遭遇严格门禁安保驱逐。 (40:00) 泡沫瓦解致公司归零破产：2000年4月股市暴跌与漫长的市政销售周期彻底掐断了外部造血路径，公司最终走向破产清算，股东权益清零，两位创始人的发小情谊亦化为乌有。 (57:30)

Reading summary

本片记录了2000年互联网泡沫破裂前后政务数字化初创公司govWorks的兴衰历程。在资本狂热与高调公关的掩盖下，公司因核心技术无法交付、地方政务落地周期漫长以及治理架构混乱而陷入全面危机，最终导致两位发小创始人决裂，并在宏观资本退潮中落得股权清零与破产清算的结局。 公关狂热与表象下的治理隐患 (3:45) 在早期融资与宣传造势期间，govWorks沉浸于明星创业公司的狂热氛围中。首席执行官Kalail Isaza Tuzman在28岁生日聚会上宣称要在30岁前达成巨大成就，公司不仅接受了Univision电视台晨间节目的现场录制、获得联合创始人Tom Herman父亲的早期投资，Kalail更在公共论坛上向时任美国总统克林顿递交名片并当面力邀其加盟。然而，这种精心编排的对外形象掩盖了内部的情感与管理撕裂。Kalail的女友Dora直言高管们只是穿着西装、拿着公司信用卡“扮演成熟绅士”；而高强度的创业节奏也让Tom不得不牺牲陪伴女儿的个人生活。 更深层的危机在于最高治理权的模糊。Kalail与Tom虽未在正式文件上设立双CEO架构，但Tom坚称两人拥有对等决策权，并深度介入技术构架之外的日常运营。这种缺乏单一指挥中枢的权能重叠，导致管理指令反复冲突，早早埋下了团队内耗与高层互信破裂的隐患。 产品研发瘫痪与竞争激化 (17:34) 尽管govWorks已累计筹集5000万美元并试图寻求高达1亿至2亿美元的新一轮融资，其实际技术交付能力却严重脱节。在关键上线测试中，核心自然语言搜索引擎“Ask”出现严重故障，输入违章停车甚至被系统误判为查询姓氏。高管与工程团队因需求频繁变更和850万美元的外包支出陷入争执。与此同时，亚特兰大竞争对手EZGov的创始人Bryan Mundy突然到访曼哈顿总部进行侦察，EZGov与Link2Gov随后以更稳定流畅的政务门户率先抢占市场。 面对投资人在尽职调查实测网站时因界面卡顿而屡屡拒绝注资的窘境，Kalail虽在全员大会上宣称“绝不认输”，并将对手抢跑定性为恐慌性模仿，但公司随即遭遇神秘夜间失窃案。Kalail与高管办公室的硬件被拆解、法律与战略文件被盗，加剧了管理层对商业间谍渗透与平台被恶意篡改的恐慌，令本已脆弱的技术团队承受巨大压力。 权力清洗与创始人反目出局 (36:12) 随着融资受阻与董事会施压，两位创始人之间的矛盾迅速激化为不可调和的权力清洗。Kalail力图确立单一CEO的绝对管理权，董事会亦提议让Tom接受为期三个月的带薪休假以淡出日常运营；持有1.2万股权益的Tom则坚决拒绝自愿离场，要求必须提供书面解雇函并支付大笔现金离职补偿，同时聘请独立律师展开法律周旋。这场博弈最终以制度性驱逐告终：Kalail正式向Tom送达解雇信，公司随即升级安保门禁，前台分发印有Tom照片的备忘录，严令安保人员在任何情况下禁止其踏入大楼。 在随后的全员通报会上，Kalail一方面深情回顾两人自少年时代以来的深厚情谊并试图以喊口号安抚军心，另一方面董事会资深成员Joel向Tom发出最后通牒，威胁若不配合妥协将让其净身出局。被迫离开后的Tom在与母亲的长谈中坦言，公司内部充斥着马基雅维利式的权术政治，残酷的资本博弈已经彻底践踏了个人情感与尊重。 商业模式死局与泡沫破灭清零 (53:30) 2000年4月14日华尔街股市遭遇历史性暴跌，彻底击碎了互联网资本泡沫，而govWorks的基本面缺陷也在此刻全面爆发。管理层事后承认，Tom的离职在公司诸多致命危机中仅排在次要位置，核心商业模式早已全面崩盘：公司前期过早搭建了极其庞大的人员配置与昂贵服务器，导致基础设施成本极度臃肿；而地方政府漫长拖沓的采购审批周期与老旧遗留系统的极高实施难度，使得实际交易抽成收入始终停滞不前，缺乏明确的现金流回正路径。 在外部风险投资骤然停滞、挽救性的资产收购方案接连告吹后，govWorks迅速耗尽流动现金，只能走向出售资产或破产清算。最终清算结果使得所有创始人与投资人的股权价值归零，未留下任何资产残值。整场历时两年的创业狂欢落幕之际，不仅数千万美元资本化为泡影，两位创始人自少年时代起建立的珍贵友谊亦被彻底毁灭。 govWorks的崩塌生动展现了2000年互联网泡沫时期盲目追逐估值与公关声量、忽视底层软件可用性与政府销售周期的系统性缺陷；这场狂热最终表明，当商业模式失去真实造血功能时，资本退潮不仅会迅速抹去虚幻的财富估值，更会对团队人际纽带造成不可逆的毁灭性打击。

Source quotes

[3:45] Tom Herman: That's the symbol of the Nazi party. I'm not doing that. I'm serious. I'm not doing that. [3:45] Dora: They look so... grown-up gentlemen. But you know what? They're not. [3:45] Kalail Isaza Tuzman: That kind of thing freaks me out, Mom, because I don't want a puppy or a child. [8:15] Bryan Mundy: You’ve got to get to know me then. That’s exactly the kind of person I am [11:15] Kalail Isaza Tuzman: I refuse. Refuse. Refuse to lose. Some people in this room who have known me for quite a long time [know] when I get my fingernails into the wall, you have to drag me away. I will not, not lose this fight. So hang with me. This is going to be a fun ride. [15:00] Tom Herman: I think that my strategic input into the building of our product is important. [15:00] Tom Herman: I'm not available for weekend blocks. I'm with my daughter on weekends. End of story. [17:34] Kaleil Isaza Tuzman: There's some very angry board members. And I don't want that anger to come onto my head. [22:45] Kaleil Isaza Tuzman: there's nothing that can fulfill really... atomic level representative democracy like the Internet. [30:00] Kalail Isaza Tuzman: I think we're personally at risk. [34:10] Kalail Isaza Tuzman: Right now... we are getting blown out of the water. Our site is not as good as our competitors' site... and that should scare the living daylights out of all of us. [36:12] Tom Herman: You don't respect my authority... I spent the last 20 years of my life on technology, and now after I get to the point where I'm able to build an organization to do that... If we're co-CEOs, then we're co-CEOs. But don't tell me anything different. [40:00] Tom Herman: I understand that you need to run the business... so that's your prerogative. Thanks for the letter. Bye.

Original transcript

[0:00] Thank you. Surprise! Maybe I'm speechless. Thank you all very much. This is wonderful. And I don't think that I could ask for a lot more to happen on my birthday. And I have a lot to do before I turn 30. How old do you now? I'm 28. I want to toast my-- partner and Brother Rat. Tom? And back at you. and all of you for... All of the wonderful, wonderful work in making this dream a reality. And the other one, we need a drum roll for this. a serious drama. And the grand prize goes to Jose and Ken for closing ACP. . . I'd like to welcome you all. And thank you for coming all this distance this morning. And it wouldn't be a true summer camp adventure. without a camp director. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Richard, Richard Herman. And this is a very proud moment for me, as it is for Tom's mom. Susan Herman, right there. Tom and Kaleo, who spent their high school years under my roof and under Khalil's mother's roof, dreaming and scheming about their futures. So I was very excited and proud to have that honor of being the first one to write the first little check. Um. Woo! I am Tom's dad, in case you were wondering. Now I know it's kind of peculiar probably for me to expect you to sing at-- Five minutes of nine. on Saturday morning after you've been driving all night. But let's do it anyhow. From the beginning, I want to wake up in the morning where the purple lilacs grow, where the sun comes peeping into where I'm sleeping and the songbirds say hello, hello. I want to wander through the wildwood where the fragrance breezes glow. and respect here in Hampshire. Well, Purple Island... I'd love to tell you guys a little bit about this This place that we're in right now, because it's one of the more special places actually in my life, it has somewhat of a cathedral feel to it. And it's always been one of the places that I've come to meditate. if you're all really silent you can hear the wind going through the pine needles up above and it really remarkable fashion, and it makes it An even more special place to meditate. . Hey, Tommy, Tommy, it's Kalail. Wonderful weekend. You're a superhero for what you did this weekend. I thought it was Fantastic for the team and thank you for Your flexibility with me as we struggle some of these leadership issues. and tomorrow. we have a news crew in from a national television show called Despierta America, which means Wake Up America. This is all Dora's wonderful doing. Senator Gonzales can't know my daughter and I are dating. Could I ask the people that are on both ends to get closer because we're looking for the visual effect of a lot of people screaming together. If you can use your hands as excited as you can get, as visual as you can get, you'll get it. I'm going to say the lines here. Don't worry about what I'm saying. You just have to say the big ones. C is the first one. C. - Sí! I'll be Ganar! Yeah! [5:00] - Travallando! - Okay, the J is a huh. - Can I imagine when you say that nationalists have a huh, fist up. No, no. That's the symbol of the Nazi party. I'm not doing that. I'm serious. I'm not doing that. I want him to get me a dog. I want him to get me a dog, but he doesn't want to get me a dog. And he's telling me that if I move in with him, he'll get me a dog. And then every time I get close to making this decision, he kind of backs out on the dog a little bit. I really want him to get me a dog and I think that he can Take the dog to work. And I figure that if he gives the dog the name, then maybe he will be more attached to the dog. I really want to be with Khalil for many, many years. And I'm proud of him. And I'm sure that this is going to slow down a little bit. And I'm sure that he will be proud of my career as well, and I will be proud of his career. But this has been a very interesting time. And this whole gov work situation has a very human side to it because a you see a whole bunch of guys acting very very grown up with their ties. and the. cuff legs and their little pens and there's the their credit cards. They look so... They-- There's such-- grown-up Gentlemen. But you know what? They're not. I'm in the zone, mom. So... I am. I'm doing what I want to be doing. Okay. I'm so happy. So is everything alright? Everything's fine. Why are you calling me at 1 in the morning? I could have been sleeping. Well, are you in love with Doris? Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I'm taking it slow. Take it slow. That's great. No hurry. I know Zyde... The problem is I go into zones of like being attracted and not being attracted. You go through, I'm sorry. I go through ups and downs of being attracted to her. Like, I never don't like her. I never don't... lover even, but I That's important to be aware of. Well, yeah, it is. I don't know, maybe it's fear, you know, maybe it's like getting to commitment, you have fear. Dora says some things like, you know, You have to buy me a puppy because... You know, it's either a puppy or a child. and That kind of thing freaks me out, Mom. Because... I don't want a puppy or a child. Bye. Hi. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. David, this is my mother Annie. This is David Klein. Hi. Pleasure to meet you. You too. He's been doing a decent job. Thank you. She's only proud when I do something... felling when I do something "Nice, this kind of stuff doesn't make it bad." - Now, what do you mean by that? - I mean, the outward accomplishment stuff is, I don't know. - So you know, the outer accomplishments are a reflection of the inner, too. - Oh, all right. - Good point, mama. - So it's not like, you know what I mean? It's not like netty net, you know, I mean it is. . - It's nice of you. give us a bus. I didn't think I was going to be able to stop by, and I didn't think he wanted me to. So I called and said, "Well, if you want me to stop by, just tell me I understand if you don't." Why not? No, we're the same way. That's how I am, man. I don't know Atlanta that way. You guys on Peachtree? Is that... 17th Peachtree. Thank you. DM. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. totally strategic move on. Lance Park. to sort of invite the competitor in and see like, and see how we operate, especially if They're not at the level. that recognize his face from the website that I look at every day. And I thought, oh my goodness, what is happening here? Thank you. Mr. Cam. Yes. This is Brian Money. Brian Money. David Cam. Your name is familiar. Chairman of Easy Go. That's why it's familiar. How are you? Good. Thank you so much. Excellent. What's the big trade secret that you're dying to ask of us and that we're dying to ask of What's the big launch plan? question of the day. I don't have any. [10:00] Come on. No, I don't. You've got to, I mean, you came in here, I can't believe that you came in here just out of, you know, pure, you know, Goodwill and curiosity. You've got to get to know me then. That's exactly the kind of person I am. You'll be surprised. further down the road you say, "Man, why did Brian do that? That really helps." I'll help. I'll help anybody I can. I mean, that's just the way we owe it. - Nice to meet you. Sean Corr. Hi Sean. Brian Mundy. How are you? Brian is the chairman of our our chief competitor, EZGov. So you got the bugs planted now or what? You're getting a lot of flack. We didn't go out and slander your company or anything. We wouldn't either. We just heard about you. the public a week ago. that I don't know what I did. freak everybody out. You probably don't want to go home wearing this. I think you should. That's awesome. I love your logo too, by the way. Okay. Is it? Yeah, it's what David's doing. I don't know if that's the right size, and I can adjust it. Let's make sure we get this right. Are people going to be surprised if you walk into your office? The only thing I ask for is a trade. I want-- I'll get you on it. I got your car. We'll send mine up. Perfect. Good deal. These are great. Anyway, I'm going to disappear. It was a pleasure to see you. Yeah, good to meet you. I appreciate everybody being here. I know we're real excited about... government going online. We're real excited about easygov.com being that destination. We will be available next door for interviews and we'll certainly look forward to developing a relationship with you all. in months and years to come as we deliver more and more applications over the Internet. The TheseAgo.com Revolution again. see this, ironically, as a positive event. in this marketplace. Not... THERE'S NO Smoke and mirrors in that comment. They see it as a sign of fear. Cheers. They see it as a sign of fear. They know we're launching. They're launching something that... is Not comparable. They are... following our footsteps, they're using our language, They're using our ideas. And it's OK. Imitation is the best form of flattery. I refuse. refused Refused. To lose. I will... Derek? Some people in this room who have known me for quite a long time. and I get my fingernails into the wall. You have to drag me away. I will not not lose this fight. So... hang with me. This is going to be a fun ride. I was trying to, I felt it in my bones, I was trying over the last couple of weeks, Yeah. Tell people that I could feel it's gonna get bumpy. You know, that's what happens when you've got a great idea and we're in a big market. It's going to get bumpy. It's going to get rough and tumble. Let's stick to who we are. Before we cheer for Kaleil because-- Don't cheer for me. Because I think that his leadership in this kind of situation is what is really going to-- make this happen. I know that a lot of you feel very differently now than you did about three minutes ago. And that's because of his ability to lead a group. I also wanted to add a couple of things to that, not the least of which is that I've never seen Kalail lose a fight either, except possibly with me. All these markets are big. It's a matter of who's going to make money in them. That's a big question. Mr. Rockefeller before he sits down. People keep saying, like, "Oh, it's just a... It's great and it's just amazing how it's growing and all the rest. And yet each morning I wake up with like a morbid fear of like, you know, Just making sure the business survives another day. the VCs are not in this for charity. you Scoping is strategy. It's what you're going to do. If we make scoping decisions and you come back and say, [15:00] - I don't like how this ended up getting scoped. Let's re-scope it. - There's a certain point at which you do have to give up a little bit. of the strategy to us. We can't all do everything. I totally trust you. uh, in the venture capital space. I think that my strategic input into the building of our product. is important. And I think it's-- Is it more important than getting the money? it's not more important than anything. I agree. Now, we might be at a place where we have to compromise to a certain degree, and you just-- I think part of it is a compromising ego. It's not an ego thing. And I'm not saying that you're not important in the process. But I do strongly feel that there's limited bandwidth, and there's a lot of stuff to get done. and you need to focus on the on the financing stuff. The scope of our product which I was... a a person that was deeply involved with creating the vision of the product is a point in which I need to be involved. Thank you. and I won't feel comfortable moving forward if I'm not involved. So let's set up... say it at time when it's convenient for you, And maybe it's like, you know, from eight o'clock at night to eight o'clock in the morning. we should do a weekend block. I'm not available for weekend blocks. I'm with my daughter on weekends. End of story. I didn't tell Tia that I wasn't going to see her this weekend. *sad music* Sit down and I get a lap. Sit down and I get a lap? Yes. And look. Look, look, catmails. You can't jump up? See it here? I laughed. Do you want to read a book with me before I go? Where are you going? I have to go tonight. I have to go. Thank you. - Oh, what did you say? Oh no, but I can't. You're gonna hang out with Nana. You're not usually as upset about this. *music* We'll be right back. that build. Obviously we'll test that build. We'll test it all day today, all day. We'll go live onto the site. We'll test it all day on the site Saturday, Sunday. and then obviously it would go public on Monday. Well, I really... In the ask, I said parking tickets. And it says-- Help us refine your question. By Park, do you mean last name Park or first name Park? Thank you. That's horrible. Parking tickets? You mean the last name or the first name? Now. Yeah. No, but the last name Park-- A good answer to anything in that? Let's try speeding together. sort of this. Okay, I put speeding tickets in and it gave me the name of the personnel director in, I don't even know what town. Charles Speed, the personnel director in Amarillo, Texas. Oh, this ask functionality is embarrassing. Yesterday was asking me, "Mayor first name or mayor last name?" The next biggest issue I think is, which everyone here in the room discovered, is ask. Ask just simply doesn't work. I can't release this site. I can't put it into the market. There's some very angry board members. And I don't want that anger to come onto my head. We've raised $50 million. We're out in the market raising another $100 million. We're in a market space that could have the leader in this market space is going to be a multi-billion dollar company. It's the largest uncharted territory on the net. Thank you. Thank you. God is alive and you can pass the man Janya Visham Shra. Thank you. [20:00] David, when are we gonna have a chance to see the final site because I'm still wearing stuff on the homepage. It's not done yet. Actually, you can see it from home. As soon as it's up, it's up. But I don't know when to call and tell you and say, okay, that's it. That's the final one. And I'd like to sign off before it - Goes up. go downstairs and close testing. Close it off. Thanks very much. Testing is over. You may continue from home. Okay, good. Let's do that then. Hey guys. I've asked the entire GovWorks test team to continue their work from GovWorks. This is stuff that can be done from a different facility. But this is much more efficient. We have a lot of people here. We have momentum. We're going into a big week. We're paying them eight and a half million dollars. I understand. Who cares what they, I mean... Seriously, Tom, it doesn't matter. The least it can do is keep the damn floor open. Thank you. I'm going to take one first. I'm just going to piss everyone off. I forget. in your life. - David, I wanna keep this flow up. Okay, great. We're keeping the floor open, guys. I'm sorry guys about the back and forth. I'm sorry about the confusion. All right? Got it. Thank you. I'd like to pay my parking ticket before we go live. So you don't want to pay it on the live site? Thank you. Thank you. Any fear of why? Thank you. Thank you. Transaction complete. It is a cool little engine. Can I take my two seconds right now then as people are leaving and just say thank you? It's been an incredible weekend. the engineers who are here working for the last however many days. It's been Amazing. Thanks a lot. Let's go drink some beer. We're live tonight. We did it. What an amazing weekend. Kalil was right, we should have pushed for this, and we did, and we're there. Thank you. I think it would be good now to... Go over to Khalil Tuzman, the co-founder and CEO of GovWorks.com. to talk and The floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. President. I have the great pleasure to be sitting next to Professor Putnam, who used to be the dean of the... school of government where I was intended to finished my graduate studies and didn't. I feel particularly empowered. When it comes to democratic representation, there's nothing that can fulfill really... atomic level representative democracy like the Internet. - It was, and afterwards they show you talking to, you know, Clinton one on one. Oh, really? And Speedo swears that you handed him a business card. I did. I did hit it. You see like you were cracking. And I also talked to him about the CEO, Jeff. This really-- and you're watching, like, oh, you're just-- Definitely telling him, like, you know. what the options package is. I told him that when he moved to New York that he should consider a job with us. If Hillary wins, that he'll be... It was unbelievable. Just call and say, I'm here, I'm okay, it's okay, I'm doing okay, you're doing okay. I love you, I will not be able to see you for about four or five days, but I'll call you tomorrow. one time I will call you and Kalel says you measure my love in phone calls. It's not in phone calls, it's that If you pick up the phone and say, Dorita, I'm gonna be working until crazy. I won't be seeing you for a couple of days. and I love you and everything's fine, I'm okay. Are you okay? Yes, I'm okay. Yeah. with with that [25:00] With that, you can keep me going. Three weeks. Hello? Hello? Andres, I'm terribly sorry to wake you at this hour. It's Kaleel. Um... We have a little bit of a situation. We had a break into the office last night. And it looks like it, from the dynamics of the break-in, it looks like it could be corporate espionage. They forced entry into my office went through the trouble of disconnecting my computer cable My security cable installed my computer. It's totally, totally ransacked. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Could be. You're assuming you're a coworker? I'm not assuming that, but I would say that it's likely given what I see so far and what I've heard. Most of these were opened and the fronts were ripped off a lot. Anybody has access? to be elevated? You have a shutoff, you have a key to Yeah, but fortunately-- yes, we do. But the lock on the fifth floor wasn't working. But there are only a limited number of people who are known. Mm-hmm. Thank you. and bad news. Okay. Okay. I have some files in my legal. section that are missing. And they went directly to your computer, to your desk, to your files, to And he calls Patrick's. Thank you. I've had better days. Thank you. Yeah, well, as I look around the office, it looks pretty clear to us that they were looking for specific information. It occurred sometime between 1 a.m. We believe between 1 a.m. and 6 a.m. I think I know what time they were here. This is when my computer was shut down. There was actually no security violations, but The computer had some weird... errors on it, like it was shut down and recorded around 321 a.m. That's totally premeditated. This is not a random burglary. They could definitely get in and they could definitely make a mess of our psyche. can redirect our site to. of corn cell. Very easily. if they had all this. Listen, Kalil, you know... We learned a lesson. And-- I hope it wasn't a fatal lesson. Yeah, I hope it wasn't a fatal lesson too. Maybe it was. Maybe it was a fatal lesson, but either way, I mean, we learned a lesson. And right now, we deal with it. We've got people that have come in that are helping us do the shit that we need to do. And as usual, we'll do the best that we can. whatever happens. Not? get too upset about it. We still live in nice places and we'll Great job. So-- That's like worst case scenario. Would have been a fun year. Thank you. Ay, ay, ay. Thank you. music We'll be right back. Thank you. What is this hand signal that you're doing? I'm sorry? What is this, like, hand signal? Thank you. You have to look to answer that question. Why are you being so mean to me today? Because I haven't seen you for a long time, and every time I call you, you're like, yeah, I'll call you back, and you never do. I do? No, you don't. No, because I left you like four messages in the course of like three days. And I said, leave me a message if you can't get a hold of me. And you didn't. And you didn't even call me. No, you're exaggerating. - Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, what are you doing? You're not like looking up things anymore. You're writing an email and I'm going to leave you. It was everything closed at 10:00, so I have to go to the jail. Oh, so you're going to write an email and not tell me that's what you're doing now and I'm sitting here waiting? Thank you. That sounds so stark when you put things out. Thank you. You know what? You're supposed to... already be on vacation with me right now, so... Almost. Amen. Bye. Can you take this back? Keep the balance. Thank you. [30:00] She's quite a legend. Well, not just a bad day on Wall Street, a record-setting bad day on Wall Street. Friday, the 14th of April, 2000, no less the anniversary. of the sinking of the Titanic, a Titanic struggle today for investors. In pointage terms, it has never been this messy and it has never been this bad. Our business is in serious trouble. Our businesses? You mean because of options? A lot of reasons. Okay? I just want you to know the degree of urgency. I don't think that I felt comfortable telling you the executive committee as a whole, and I just think you should know. You mean because of the revenue numbers? I think we're personally at risk. Thank you. Thank you. I've had some pretty ugly conversations with board members over the last couple days. And so what are you saying, that the board would consider getting rid of us because of this? Yep. Payroll list. their prerogative. Thanks, Paul. I'm concerned about the problem. I'm concerned about the revenue. I don't want to give you the wrong idea. I'm deeply concerned about the revenue, but I'm not concerned about the board. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um... I'm not personally at risk. Anyway. You? Okay? I mean, I could be at risk for losing the job. Potentially, theoretically. Again, that would surprise me, but... That's possible. Um... Bye. That wouldn't be the end of the world for me at this point. I think this is a serious crisis. Which one is heavy-gauge? Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of the things that I've been doing of a lot. What are the requirements that we're trying to afford? feel Eh... you know, and at a very bare minimum level. you know, At a very bare minimum level, our business requirements are very simple, and they haven't changed. We need to be able to collect credit cards, we need to be able to collect electronic checks, we need to be able to collect debit cards, we need to be able to collect data on these things, and we need to be able to pass it to municipalities. Right. Listen. I hear you, I want to involve you guys, And I understand that you guys think that you know better than me. But... We don't know better, but we know that what we have today doesn't work. No, you don't know that. What we have today does work. Then why are we fixing it? We're fixing it because there are problems, because it's not going to do everything that we want it to do for the future. It's a great first step. All right? We built-- We're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. It's quite clear. And it's not like we have a bunch of geniuses learning code here. I just don't want you guys to tell us, stop doing what you're doing, wait 10 days for us to figure out what we want, so that you can rebuild something totally from scratch based on what you're doing. If you ever want us to work together... Is this a conversation that you want to end by walking out? just I guess tension, you know, at least confusion about, you know, the areas that you're gonna take on, the areas you're not gonna take on. I do want you to know a little bit about how my relationship with Kalail works because You know, we're not really co-CEOs. but in some ways We really are. Because at the end of the day... we have an agreement that uh, They decisions regarding the company are made by the two of us together. And as a result, I find myself functionally responsible for a lot of things that go way beyond technology. That's fine. But... Yeah. Respect that. There's a structure for a reason. Roy just sounded like he was about to have a nervous breakdown. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just talking up front right as we speak. I'll see you there. Right now... There's no other way to put it. we are getting blown out of the water. Our site. is not... as good as our competitors' sight. Sights. It's not. And that should scare the living daylights out of all of us. I'm a little frustrated as well, Tom, that that it has to be laid out as a paradigm. It should be the MDFs. priority all the time. It needs the competition. We need to be given clear direction so that we can focus our energy on Whatever it is... [35:00] that is the most important thing. - Very fair point. - And it can't just be, you know, make the site fantastic. That's just simply not specific enough. When I talk to somebody out there and I tell them, I want to raise 200 million bucks at a humongous valuation that gives you no speed, You know, they look, go into, the first thing they're gonna do is go into our site. And then after they go to the site, they go, hmm, who they compete with? Easy Go, Link2Go. And that happens to me every day. Every day today. Too far behind, we're getting hurt. We're getting hurt in ways that you guys don't see. I see it. Because where Jose and I are on the front lines of that kind of pain. And we know how How it could be, it could be a fatal blow. *thud* Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What do we do? what I'm hearing from you. is that Thank you. is a You think I'm not the right person to leave this company strategically untechnology. I know that on the ground, I'm not the person to manage technology day to day. I'm not the engineer. and I'm not the project manager and And that's why I'm so excited about VASA. because he knows how to operate a technology partner. And he's going to do a great job. I don't want this conversation to be about basketball. and the goodness of being better. Yeah. Amen. You don't respect my authority. And it's safe to say it's still a botany now because Yeah. I get high off those you respected my authority. But because I just... I had a job that I'm than I'm trying to perform. And it's very difficult. to form that job. when that's the case. You know, I spent the last-- 20 years of my life. on technology and now after I get to the point where I'm able to build an organization to do that, I'm just going to-- If we're co-CEOs, And we'll go see those. But don't tell me anything different. And if that's the way it works, that I need to know that that's the way you think it works. And you know what? I'll leave. It's the same discussion we had before. You know, it's not going to work. I... I... I... So, I need to know you know, what are these you want to do? And then I'll make a decision about whether I stay. I'm-- I'm going to go on vacation for two weeks. and I'll communicate with you and I'll communicate with you. Thank you. is to come. very difficult. you know that I love you. These are difficult things to say because... and you just to sure that you know why is it tough? is really received on the 20th. Amen. I'll listen. Alex, this is Tom Herman. How are you? imperative. Good, I haven't spoken to you for a while. I'm at a point where the company is considering bringing in some uh, some more senior talent. And so there's a very good chance that I'll be leaving and I need to negotiate a settlement with our board. Basically. as they try to sort of consolidate leadership with one CEO. I become more and more of a problem and I understand that. I am. That's my nature. They've asked me to take three months Time off. paid time off with continued vesting. So I feel like I should settle now instead of settle in three months. Tom is a friend of mine you know? we've been working 20 hour days for a year change on them. on this stuff. So it's tough. but it's important to separate the business from [40:00] It's the right thing to do, you know, from the company's perspective. He was basically the one that got me started, gave me the chance, you know, and... I have gotten legal counsel at this point, and my counsel has told me, don't leave the office. He said, go back in and tell them, and this is what I'm basically telling you, go back in, tell them that you're ready to work things out and that you don't want to take a vacation until you're given formal notice of something or other that is in writing and is sent to my council. Well, I wish we weren't on this path. I understand you're following counsel and you're doing what you need to do. So I know that in death. And so I would do the same thing. I just please, as you go about this process, anything you can do to keep the team, even if you don agree with what being done I trying to keep it as positive as possible It not something that the rest of the company needs to know about It could be between you and me and the board All right. I mean, it could have a settlement attached that includes a significant cash component. I've requested that. I'm assuming that the board is working on that. But now I'm also telling the board that I will not leave the office until that is dealt with. Please don't take my change in attitude as anything personal. I still honestly have, as first and foremost in my mind, the interests of GovWorks, but not to the exclusion of doing what my own legal counsel suggests I should do. Okay. Thanks, Tom. I feel like I'm on the verge of becoming, of getting into a sort of a nasty fight with the board. About what? About my termination. Just take a month and like get some perspective you know Get some perspective Yeah But what going to happen in a month I mean I can leave if Vasu has everyone pitted against each other and the entire tech team's going to quit while I'm away. That's my problem. No, it's not anymore. Well, but it is my problem if I have 1.2 million shares in the company. Hey. Hey, guys. I wanted to let you know where I am and what I'm doing. Okay, let me write... There's not much to write down. I've been working on... You can pass this message on to Clay if you want or not, whatever. I've been working on the Louisiana State Portal thing with AMS and with Microsoft, and I am continuing to finish that stuff. I'm here to work. I like my job, so I'm doing it. Okay. This letter is a request for termination Why don you want to negotiate this or talk about it before you go to this And you and the board are on board with that. Okay, because you understand that if there is no possibility for a cash settlement, it's going to get very ugly. And I would add that I would much prefer that you chill out a little bit instead of precipitating this and let me stay in the office while you try and work out an adjustment to my employment agreement so that I can comfortably take a leave of absence, which is obviously I want to support you in making that happen. I don't know, you're making a mistake, but I understand that you need to run the businesses, you need to run it, so that's your prerogative. Thanks for the letter. Bye. Sorry guys. Go ahead. [45:00] Actually, I... All right, why aren't you on the executive committee call right now? Because I'm officially just walking around with you to make sure everything's cool. They asked me to do that, so I said, great. Here. I don't know what that meant, so... Yeah, I'm going to hit the road. Thank you. Have you just been downstairs? Yes. Have you been all set? Yes. Tom Herman has left, and we've started the security measures. Do you know where that is? Darren is out of the office. We're just on the phone with him and Karen. Okay, dare to start the security process. is. no longer with the company. and he has been escorted out of the building. And measures are being put in place, people are going to have to share their ID coming in and stuff like that. No, no, we're not. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. . I love you so much. Amen. Amen. Thank you. - Good night. Keep an eye out tonight, okay? No problem. Because we dismissed someone today, and we've had security issues in the past. All right. Okay? And let me give you my card. Under no circumstances, I'll let anybody sweet talk you to death. If the person shows up whose picture you have there or anything, it doesn't matter what Yeah, if you have to force somebody removed from the building, All right. Thanks, man. Okay. Thanks. Oh, God. Thank you. This sucks so badly. Thank you. Thank you. he said I mean I could not have I could not have Thank you. Thank you. - Me. He said, if Tom's acting like a mensch and he's acting like a grown-up, And he's doing things that are productive for this company. that I'm going to be supportive. of him having what I think is an outlandishly generous offer. of half of what he remembers. I mean that would basically, that would give him in a year and a half two thirds of his total ownership. I'm not sure. But I'll tell you, if he's acting like a shit, And he's calling and he calls me. He's acting like a pain in the ass. that he's gonna get exactly what he deserves because he's a kid. Acting like a kid in a grown-up world. And the thing is that he's being, Joel's being harsh. I mean, Joel is harsh. Joel is very harsh, but he's right. Thank you. He doesn't trust me. He doesn't trust me. Thank you. Trust me. Thank you. . Thank you. That was painful for both of us, Tom. I think that you got that counsel. I'm not sure. And I know-- I say that not with a lot of information, but with some conversations about it as well. I don't say it with no information. And I told you that yesterday when I was on the plane from Pittsburgh. I think that was bad counsel, and I think it put me in a really difficult position. There was basically no alternative. You wouldn't leave the office. on a vacation or on a leave or anything unless there was a termination letter in hand. Bye. I did not want to, you've got to believe me, Joe. I did not want to terminate you. But I did feel strongly enough about the need for your absence But that doesn't mean I want you out of the business. It doesn't mean that I want you to lose anything. Amen. money or pride or anything. Thank you. I want, even if this business is a failure, I want... everybody who's involved to know that we did all the things that we should have done to make it as successful as possible. Thank you. All right. As some of you may know... Right now, as of yesterday. Tom Herman. is no longer part of the operational day-to-day of the business. Thank you. I've known Tom since we were... 15, 14 or 15. I love him. And this has been one of the more difficult experiences, really, of my life. And I think that's what we're going to do. [50:00] - I think that for him it has been as well. All right. He and I have built this company. Together. Just as we have all built this company. Together. It just so happens that... He and I had built it together since the first day. There's probably a natural question because what's your relationship with Tom? right now. And The answer to that, honestly, is I don't know. As difficult as it might seem, in Tom's honor here, and with respect to him, I'd like to do the cheer. I'll lead it this morning. I haven't done it in months. Yeah! Thank you. Thank you. Hey. Boy, those are new pajamas, huh? They're purple. Hi. - Come on. - Come on in. - Hi. - Mmm. Next week will be my first week out of the office. MS. That must feel good. Thank you. It's the power politics part that It's a little hard to stomach to see people you started with who are engaged in that. He's aggressive. and he's going to get what he wants and he's certainly Machiavellian. Bye-bye. the values that you grew up with were that people came before things And that the intensive energy that goes into anybody's personal life and professional life has to do with caring for people and how they are and how they feel. Thank you. And that didn't seem to be part of this new world. people's personal feelings. Right. I disagree. Well, you didn't share very many of your personal feelings. For example, that you were no longer at Govix. And I had spoken with you the night before, Thursday night. And I said, how are things going at work? And you said, fine. And I had actually... That was Thursday night, you said? Yeah. Yeah, I had already gone through all of this. I just wasn't ready to talk about it. I didn't see any point because I was Thank you. I was, uh... It wouldn't have been a nice conversation. Does it have to be a nice conversation? I'm your mother. But all I'm saying is I'm not sorry that that part of your life is over because I don't think that's a healthy way of life. And I... I didn't like... Thank you. what it did to you. Thank you. Maybe I wanted a way out. The issue with Tom is not what's happening in the company. The issue with Tom is like number eight of what's happening in the company. The issue with Tom will work itself out. What's happening in the company is we have flat revenues. We have bloated infrastructure. We have sales cycles that are much longer than we anticipated. We have implementation processes that are more complex. We don't have a clear path to cache. Yet. We have some acquisitions that we are working on, but may not work out. and we have a bunch of bullshit personal stuff that takes up people's time when none of it's going to mean anything at all, successful company. That's what's happening. - Hey Tia, was it a good show? - Don't you understand that I'm being pushed out? - Yes I do. - So why should I sit back and let that happen? rational about it. It is rational. Our employment agreements don't protect us. We don't have any legal [55:00] Ace, that's fine. The only thing you can do is screw up the company and screw up yourself. Clay, you think this is about equity. First of all, let me tell you two things. First of all, it's not about equity for me. It's not about ownership. It's about the business. It's about what I'm doing, what I'm building, what I've been building. I think that's about you. Yes, that is about me. It's about growing and learning and building a business. And they don't care whether we grow and learn. I understand that. that's... I'd rather see GovWorks. fail. Thank you. Then risk. Thank you. personal relationships. They're just more important. you know Thank you. Thank you. The thing that I'll probably remember Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. more than anything else about the last year and a half Tom Thank you. Thank you. is the moment with when I And he told me they didn't trust me. Thank you. Things change. That's the best part. Yes, Tia. Not yet, but close. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I also want you to know despite... any and all the other things that may or may not be happening. have had a great time over the last year and I love you. I really do. So... Thank you. I'm sorry that things are the way they are, but... Even if I'm angry. . Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Help. A little help. A little more. Okay, I got it now. I got it. No help. I got it. No help. I got it. Thank you. You okay? Yeah. Amen. Thank you. sell, finance, or bankruptcy. There's not going to be an orderly wind-out. Are you guys still implementing cities? Well, the sad thing about it is the business is finally going to turn the corner in that respect. It's very, very, very tragic. Thank you. We'll end up with zero. Not even stop. We'll end up with... Huh? Right. Zero. Absolutely nothing. I'm sorry. Wow. You ever talk to Dora? Dora, no, not since she moved to Florida. Have you? A little bit. That was the... saddest. fallout of-- of the entire two years from my perspective. But no, it's not. The saddest fallout was us. Yes. Thank you. from my perspective. Thank you. Then Dora. than... all the investors and people that believe in us. You're never going to go anywhere. It's your It is your baby. It's going to stay that way. Even if you set it up for adoption, doesn't There's the genetic link. - Don't worry. Thank you. So if I turn this up, You had to pay royalty? So [60:00] Remember. Remember. Remember. Remember. Remember. Remember. Remember. Remember. Remember. See you next time. you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back.