Behar, Abou Shmeiss Confront Gaza War Trauma Across Hebrew and Arabic

Can Israelis and Palestinians Talk Through Poetry? — University of Michigan

University of Michigan

Authentic dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians demands confronting raw fear and mutual destruction directly rather than smoothing over trauma for polite coexistence.

AI-assisted summary of Can Israelis and Palestinians Talk Through Poetry? — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published:

Key ideas

  • The Samantha Woll Dialogues at the University of Michigan convened poets Almog Behar and Ayat Abou Shmeiss to examine whether poetic expression can bridge deep Israeli-Palestinian fractures amidst ongoing war. (0:01)
  • Ayat Abou Shmeiss explained her choice to write primarily in Hebrew as an organic outcome of living in mixed Jaffa, which she leverages to bypass political gatekeeping and directly address Israeli society regarding Palestinian lived realities. (22:51)
  • Almog Behar highlighted how aggressive 1950s Israeli assimilation policies severed Mizrahi families from ancestral Judeo-Arabic, forcing later generations to reclaim the language through contemporary Palestinian speech and literature. (27:20)
  • Both writers presented searing poetry addressing the war in Gaza, with Abou Shmeiss memorializing nine extended family members killed in airstrikes and Behar linking ancient biblical temple lamentations to modern destruction in Gaza and Jerusalem. (51:09)

Detailed notes

## Background Published on YouTube by the University of Michigan on October 12, 2026, this event is part of the Samantha Woll Dialogues at the Raoul Wallenberg Institute. The panel features poets Almog Behar and Ayat Abou Shmeiss in conversation with scholar Stephanie Kraver, exploring identity, language politics, and whether Israelis and Palestinians can converse through poetry.

## TL;DR Convened on the eve of October 7 at Rackham Amphitheater, Jerusalem-born Mizrahi poet Almog Behar and Jaffa-born Palestinian poet Ayat Abou Shmeiss read multilingual works in Hebrew, Arabic, and English. The discussion traces Behar's reclamation of his family's suppressed Arab-Jewish heritage and Abou Shmeiss's strategic use of Hebrew to voice everyday Palestinian female reality and confront systemic silencing. Both writers address the devastating emotional impact of the war in Gaza, reading searing works on personal loss, fear, and shared ruin while candidly assessing the limits of cross-cultural solidarity. The panel concludes with reflections on bilingual publishing, untranslatability, and poetry's role as an unflinching internal mirror rather than a superficial bridge.

## Atmosphere & style The atmosphere is solemn, heavy, and intensely intimate, opening with tributes to the late Holocaust survivor Irene Butter and grassroots organizer Samantha Woll. A palpable, quiet vulnerability fills the room as Abou Shmeiss recounts the names of her young relatives killed in Gaza and expresses raw fury toward militarism, complemented by Behar's measured, liturgical meditations on ancient temple destruction and modern ruins. The rapport among the speakers and moderator is candid and unvarnished, steering clear of facile optimism to hold space for genuine grief, fear, and the complexities of shared survival.

## Bulletin - [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1s) The Samantha Woll Dialogues at the University of Michigan convened poets Almog Behar and Ayat Abou Shmeiss to examine whether poetic expression can bridge deep Israeli-Palestinian fractures amidst ongoing war. - [22:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1371s) Ayat Abou Shmeiss explained her choice to write primarily in Hebrew as an organic outcome of living in mixed Jaffa, which she leverages to bypass political gatekeeping and directly address Israeli society regarding Palestinian lived realities. - [27:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1640s) Almog Behar highlighted how aggressive 1950s Israeli assimilation policies severed Mizrahi families from ancestral Judeo-Arabic, forcing later generations to reclaim the language through contemporary Palestinian speech and literature. - [51:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3069s) Both writers presented searing poetry addressing the war in Gaza, with Abou Shmeiss memorializing nine extended family members killed in airstrikes and Behar linking ancient biblical temple lamentations to modern destruction in Gaza and Jerusalem.

## Key takeaways - [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1s) The Raoul Wallenberg Institute hosted the Samantha Woll Dialogues on the eve of October 7 to explore cross-cultural dialogue through multilingual poetry. - [04:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=258s) Almog Behar's poetry, notably 'My Arabic,' interrogates the domestic suppression and state-enforced erasure of Arab-Jewish identity in Israel. - [11:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=679s) Ayat Abou Shmeiss utilizes bilingual and trilingual poetry to give voice to silenced women and articulate her dual identity as a Palestinian citizen of Israel. - [18:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1128s) Both poets initially turned to writing as an intimate personal escape from domestic rules and strict schooling before developing it into a public medium of political negotiation. - [22:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1371s) Abou Shmeiss was taught Hebrew through the Jewish curriculum at a French private school chosen by her mother for defensive literacy, which later allowed her to address the Hebrew-speaking public directly. - [27:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1640s) State-driven assimilation in the 1950s made Behar's mother passively bilingual and alienated Behar from his grandmother Louise, prompting his decision at age twenty-three to formally study Arabic. - [33:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2003s) Cross-cultural literary solidarity has been heavily strained post-October 7, though rare bilingual gatherings in Jaffa and Tel Aviv have provided spaces for joint grief and anti-war dissent. - [38:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2291s) Behar noted that reclaimed Arabic among second- and third-generation Mizrahim fundamentally relies on Palestinian Arabic and literature rather than vanished ancestral Baghdadi dialects. - [42:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2559s) Abou Shmeiss's poem 'A Rock in the Feminine Form' leverages grammatical gender differences between Hebrew and Arabic to explore female resilience under systemic pressure. - [47:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2876s) Composing poetry simultaneously across Hebrew and Arabic recovers ancestral cadences while generating bilingual works that deliberately resist conventional translation. - [51:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3069s) In 'Eyes on the Road,' Abou Shmeiss chronicles the agonizing cognitive dissonance of commuting in Israel while mourning nine relatives killed in airstrikes across Gaza. - [01:00:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3629s) Behar's poem 'Tisha B'Av 2025' links the liturgical commemoration of ancient temple destruction directly to the mutual devastation of Gaza and Jerusalem today. - [01:10:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=4241s) Both writers regard translation as an act of release where texts take on independent communal lives, generating fresh meaning rather than merely suffering linguistic loss. - [01:14:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=4484s) Publication of Behar's work in Cairo legitimized his literary pursuit of Arabic in the eyes of his parents, showing how translation can cross rigid political frontiers. - [01:24:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=5056s) Abou Shmeiss argued that authentic dialogue requires confronting fear directly, emphasizing that military uniforms and weapons that signal safety to Israelis evoke acute terror for Palestinians. - [01:24:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=5056s) Following three months of creative paralysis after October 7, Behar re-entered writing by compiling Hebrew Bible verses featuring the word 'war' to construct text when personal expression failed.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1s) Opening Remarks, Tributes, and the Mission of the Samantha Woll Dialogues

Jeffrey Veidlinger, director of the Raoul Wallenberg Institute at the University of Michigan, opens the event by welcoming attendees to Rackham Amphitheater. He gives a special nod to students from the ALA 259 course, reminding them to head to their regular classroom for their post-event discussion, while inviting students not enrolled in the class to join a moderated conversation over free food in the East Conference Room. Veidlinger expresses gratitude to the institute's staff—Miriam Mora, Eleanor Camp, Alexis Gideon, and Joe Johnston—for bringing the program together.

The afternoon begins on a somber and reflective note as Veidlinger honors the memory of Irene Butter, a local Holocaust survivor, educator, and activist who passed away just days earlier on Friday, and whose funeral several attendees had attended just hours before. Butter was a foundational figure in Ann Arbor, serving as co-founder of Zeitouna—a long-running dialogue group of local Jewish and Palestinian women who gathered for decades—and helping establish the Raoul Wallenberg Medal and Endowment. Veidlinger highlights her enduring optimism despite childhood horrors, noting that she had addressed the institute's inaugural gathering and remained a dedicated supporter.

Veidlinger contextualizes the event within the broader scope of the Raoul Wallenberg Institute, founded by the university in December 2023 to combat antisemitism and religious hatred while fostering inclusion. Named in honor of the 1935 Michigan alumnus who rescued thousands of Hungarian Jews before perishing in Soviet custody, the institute houses the Samantha Woll Dialogues. This series commemorates Samantha Woll, a grassroots organizer and interfaith champion murdered in 2023 at age 40, made possible by her family, Margo and Douglas Woll, along with Monica and Ben Rosen. Taking place on the eve of October 7, the panel convenes to explore a fundamental query: can Israelis and Palestinians talk through poetry?

- **Raoul Wallenberg legacy**: 1935 U-M alumnus who worked in Budapest alongside Swedish and U.S. authorities to save thousands of Jews from Auschwitz before his capture and death in a Soviet prison. - **Event structure**: Two participating poets read selections of their work across multiple languages, followed by a moderated panel and audience questions submitted via index cards.

---

[04:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=258s) Almog Behar: Performing Linguistic Fractures and Longing

Veidlinger introduces Almog Behar, born in Netanya in 1978 and currently residing in Jerusalem. Teaching in the Department of Literature at Tel Aviv University, Behar's scholarship and creative work bridge Hebrew and Arabic literatures, traditional Jewish liturgical poetry (*piyyut*), modern Mizrahi writing, Judeo-Arabic, and Jewish literary engagement with Islamic traditions. Author of four poetry collections, a short story collection, and a novel, his writing directly confronts the displacement of his family's Arab-Jewish roots from Iraq and Turkey.

After a brief, lighthearted exchange over microphone logistics, Behar begins reading his poetry, first reciting in Hebrew before presenting the English translation by Dimi Reider of his celebrated poem, "My Arabic":

> "My Arabic is mute / Strangled at the throat / Cursing itself without uttering a word / Sleeps in the earliest shelters of my soul / Hiding from relatives behind the Hebrew blinds / And my Hebrew is raging / Running between rooms and neighbor's balconies / Making its voice heard in public / Prophesying the coming of God and of bulldozers..."

The poem constructs a vivid domestic landscape of cultural suppression, where Arabic hides behind closed blinds, pretending to be Hebrew, whispering *"Ahlan Ahlan"* at visitors, and showing an ID card to police on the street to verify its Jewish status, while Hebrew paces deaf and restless in the living room. Behar explains that Rima Jaber translated the piece into Arabic, while he translated his second selected poem into Arabic himself. He reads in Arabic before sharing Shoshana Olidort's English translation of a shorter piece inspired by iconic Egyptian singer Umm Kulthum:

> "Amal is hope / Hayati is my life / And when they meet / Between the lips of Umm Kulthum and my own ears / A great many longings will dig wells in my heart."

---

[11:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=679s) Ayat Abou Shmeiss: Giving Voice to the Mute and Encased Burdens

Veidlinger welcomes Jaffa-born poet and activist Ayat Abou Shmeiss, born in 1984. Abou Shmeiss is the author of two bilingual Hebrew-Arabic collections, *A Basket Filled with Mute Tongues* (2013) and *I am Two* (2018), and heads the independent publishing house Mi'tan. Her third collection, *An Unmothered Tongue*, marks her English-language debut. Her writing and cultural work center on everyday Palestinian female experience, duality, silencing, and archival recovery of women's historical narratives.

Taking the podium with an opening greeting of *"Marhaba"* and hello, Abou Shmeiss confesses her nervousness and playfully cautions the room about her language fluency, noting that English is neither her first, second, nor third language, but her fourth: "sometimes I mix between languages, so just be aware." She presents her poetry trilingually, reading first in Arabic, then Hebrew, and concluding with Lisa Katz's English translation of the title poem from *A Basket Filled with Mute Tongues*:

> "I dragged the words I haven't learned yet / My language drown / My teeth storming like the sea in a wintry day / I can't snare a single word with my palate / Raise my voice like a fishing rod / And bear a basket filled with mute tongues / Mute as fish / That I place / On the counter / In your kitchen."

She follows with a reading of "A Rock in the Feminine Form", delivering the verses in Arabic, Hebrew, and English translation. The poem traces an intimate, enduring weight:

> "I have a rock on the back of my neck, / Encased in silk / I don't remember who put it there / But I remember that I wrapped it myself / So it would at least look nice / I go everywhere with it / Disabled, but imagine without a wheelchair / People around me stare but don't comment / Apparently they think / That I like it or it's good for me / Perhaps because I wrapped it / I remember that it's been there / Since it was just a pebble."

---

[17:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1055s) Welcoming Stephanie Kraver to Lead the Discussion

Veidlinger returns to acknowledge the shared motifs of silencing, bodily tension, and linguistic duality between the two poets' readings. He then introduces the panel's moderator, Stephanie Kraver, a fellow at the Raoul Wallenberg Institute. Kraver is a scholar of modern Hebrew and Arabic literature whose research investigates transcultural exchange, trauma theory, translation, and expressions of mourning.

Her current book project, *Writing Past Difference*, interrogates the political and linguistic partitions dividing Arab and Jewish literary histories. As Kraver, Behar, and Abou Shmeiss take their seats and sort out their handheld microphones on stage, Kraver opens the discussion by sharing what an immense privilege it is to convene the dialogue.

[18:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1128s) Finding Poetry as a Refuge and a Secret

Moderator Stephanie Kraver opens the discussion by expressing how meaningful it is to hear the poets' words spoken aloud in Hebrew, Arabic, and English. Before analyzing specific verses, she invites both panelists to reflect on their artistic origins and explain how they originally found their way to poetry as a medium of expression.

When offered the microphone, Ayat Abou Shmeiss frankly admits that she did not grow up in a literary household surrounded by bookshelves or reading the works of renowned poets like Fadwa Tuqan with aspirations of following in their footsteps. Instead, her poetry began as an outlet for mundane domestic friction:

> "Actually, it was because I have some tensions and some arguments, very foolish, with my mom, and to write it was just kind of a expression and it just felt free. I had the freedom to write whatever I want in the way that I wanted."

She explains that this sense of absolute freedom was something sorely missing from her daily life, particularly at her strict and demanding school. Writing became a private space of liberation, and she seized upon it.

Taking the microphone, Almog Behar jokes that Kraver has started with the most difficult question imaginable: "Where are we going from here?" He traces his own writing back as far as his memory stretches, describing it as having begun as a deeply guarded "personal secret." For decades, he simply wrote into the drawer, spurred by a sense of envy toward what he read and tentatively imitating the literary models before him. This insular habit continued until his early twenties, when poetry suddenly transformed from a hidden diary into a direct vehicle to "negotiate with the world directly and not as a secret." Stepping into the public realm in Hebrew immediately brought questions of language, lineage, and politics to the forefront of his craft.

---

[22:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1371s) Writing in the Language of the Other: Hebrew in Jaffa

Kraver directs the conversation toward the complex linguistic reality of writing in Israel, asking Abou Shmeiss about her experience as a Palestinian writing in Hebrew, and Behar about his advocacy for the preservation and restoration of Arabic within Jewish culture.

Abou Shmeiss recalls that when she first started writing, she never consciously framed her work in political categories as "a Palestinian who writes in Hebrew." Hebrew was simply an organic part of her environment, a language she grew up with, understood deeply, and loved. The political friction surrounding her choice only became obvious after she published her first book. During an early interview, an Israeli journalist bluntly asked her whether writing her poetry in Hebrew was akin to "sleeping with the enemy." The question left her dumbfounded:

> "Really, I didn't realize that this is an issue. So I live in Jaffa, and Jaffa it's a mixed city... Hebrew was everywhere. The language was like everyday language... It wasn't kind of military language or something like that."

She illustrates how thoroughly Hebrew permeated daily life in Jaffa—from doctor appointments to the neighborhood grocery store. She notes with irony that virtually no one in Jaffa even uses the Arabic word for the post office anymore; everyone defaults to the Hebrew word, *Do'ar*.

However, the journalist's provocation forced Abou Shmeiss to confront the painful reality of her linguistic medium: Hebrew is the official tongue of the state that occupies her people, enforces systemic racism, and dictates whether she is permitted to visit her own relatives in Gaza or the West Bank. Although she experimented with writing in Arabic, she felt her expressive strength remained in Hebrew. Recognizing that Israeli society reflexively reduces Palestinians to narrow political boxes based on their appearance, language, or identity cards, she realized Hebrew could serve as an indispensable tool: by writing in the dominant language, she could bypass political gatekeeping and directly address the Israeli public on her own terms.

---

[27:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1640s) Linguistic Eradication and Reclaiming Arabic

Behar reflects that in his family, the politics of language unfolded inside the domestic sphere long before it met the street. His mother was born in Baghdad under the name Samira and immigrated to Israel at age five; today, her legal name is Mirabella. Growing up, Behar listened to his mother converse with her parents and aunts in Iraqi Arabic, but she always responded to them exclusively in Hebrew. When she was ten years old, a school educator visited their home and formally instructed her parents to cease speaking Arabic to her—a reflection of the state's aggressive 1950s assimilationist policies:

> "Her parents, of course, didn't stop speaking with her in Arabic. They didn't have another language. But from that day, she stopped answering them in Arabic. She became passive in Arabic. She heard it, but answered in Hebrew."

The linguistic tapestry of Behar's household was extraordinarily dense, spanning four distinct ancestral languages: - **Baghdadi Judeo-Arabic:** Spoken by his maternal grandparents. - **Judeo-Spanish (Ladino):** Spoken by his paternal grandfather's family, who came from Istanbul. - **German:** Spoken by his paternal grandmother, who was born in Einbeck. - **Danish:** Spoken by his father's parents after fleeing Nazi persecution to Copenhagen in 1939.

Despite this heritage, the unspoken social contract dictated that home languages should never spill into the street. Behar’s parents expected their children to master only modern Hebrew and English. When Behar was around twelve, he suggested to his parents that it was a waste not to learn any of their family tongues. After deliberating for a full week, his parents replied that he could study Danish—an absurd conclusion, given that his family had spoken Arabic for a thousand years, Ladino for five hundred, German for two hundred, and Danish for merely ten.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Generational Language Severance and Reclamation accDescr: Diagram tracing the multi-generational shift from diverse diaspora languages to forced Hebrew monolingualism, culminating in the poet's deliberate reclamation of Arabic.

subgraph Ancestral_Roots ["Ancestral Languages at Home"] A1["Baghdadi Judeo-Arabic<br>(1,000 years)"] A2["Ladino / Judeo-Spanish<br>(500 years)"] A3["German<br>(200 years)"] A4["Danish<br>(10 years)"] end

subgraph State_Assimilation ["State Assimilation (1950s)"] B["School policy demands parents drop Arabic"] C["Mother becomes passively bilingual<br>(hears Arabic, answers in Hebrew)"] end

subgraph Severance ["Linguistic Severance"] D["Grandmother Louise suffers dementia at 17<br>Reverts strictly to Iraqi Arabic"] E["State policy severs intergenerational bridge<br>Behar unable to converse with her"] end

subgraph Reclamation ["Poetic Reclamation"] F["Decides to study Arabic formally at 23"] G["Writes 'My Arabic is Mute'<br>Reclaims belonging and breaks repetitive cycle"] end

A1 --> B B --> C C --> D D --> E E --> F F --> G ```

The decisive turning point arrived when Behar was seventeen. His maternal grandmother, Louise, began suffering from dementia, forgot her Hebrew entirely, and reverted solely to Iraqi Arabic. While older cousins could still converse with her, Behar found himself completely cut off:

> "And that was the moment that I understood that someone from outside the family, that the state decided that we wouldn't be able to talk with her in the last month of her life."

This profound realization drove him to study Arabic formally at age twenty-three. Later, when composing his celebrated poem *My Arabic is Mute* (*Aravit Ilemet*), he recognized the transformative weight of its opening words: claiming the tongue as "my Arabic" allowed him to step beyond passive loss and actively reforge his belonging, ending the cycle of endlessly mourning an inherited silence.

---

[33:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2003s) Solidarity and Literary Spaces After October 7

Kraver asks the poets to assess the contemporary literary landscape in Israel in the shadow of October 7. She asks whether joint spaces still endure where Jewish and Palestinian writers can share their work, build community, and organize together, or whether the terrain for cross-cultural solidarity has fractured beyond repair.

Abou Shmeiss, currently residing in London for her second year, acknowledges that the present cultural climate is profoundly strained. As director of the *Mita'an* publishing house, she has remained committed to amplifying Palestinian voices, particularly those inside the Gaza Strip. She recounts partnering with educator Dr. Rachel Korazim roughly two years prior to organize a public literary evening dedicated to showcasing Gazan poetry.

Reaching writers inside the enclave amidst the ongoing devastation was an agonizing logistical and emotional challenge. While several Gazan poets consented to have their verses read, some firmly requested that their words not be translated into Hebrew, unwilling to be embraced by the language of their occupiers at that moment. Nevertheless, Abou Shmeiss and Korazim mounted a major bilingual event at the Jaffa Theatre (*Teatrot Yafo*), reading the texts in both Arabic and Hebrew:

> "And it was like the first time when I saw during the genocide, like Israeli and Palestinian together, like gathering through poetry. It was very excited."

The gathering proved to be a rare, emotionally charged instance of collective presence and shared grief amidst escalating violence, prompting Abou Shmeiss to seek further ways to build cultural bridges despite severe funding shortages and mounting political hostility.

[36:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2162s) Bilingual Publishing and the Literary Response in Israel

Ayat Abou Shmeiss recounts a significant publishing project undertaken through her press. An author approached her wanting to publish a poetry collection and requested that his work be translated into Hebrew. When she inquired which languages the book should include, he replied, "like your book. Bilingual." Abou Shmeiss pressed him on the specifics, and he confirmed: "Arabic and Hebrew." Stunned by the boldness of the request, she asked, "are you sure?" He stood firm, and they brought the collection to print, following up with a series of public events that proved deeply moving and powerful.

Outside of their own efforts, however, Abou Shmeiss found the broader literary scene in Israel profoundly disappointing. She had expected widespread organizing and a surge of publications taking a stance against the genocide in Gaza, yet very little materialized. She highlights one standout exception: an evening organized by her Israeli friends in Tel Aviv. The gathering brought together numerous Israeli poets who read works condemning the crimes and military actions. That single gathering proved to her that dissent and shared humanity within literature are possible, even if one must actively search for them amidst the current landscape.

[38:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2291s) The Shift in Jewish-Arab Identity and Linguistic Return

Almog Behar reflects on the fluctuating relationship between poetry, politics, and language. He explains that when he is optimistic, he believes in the power of poetry to effect change and sees the bridge between Hebrew and Arabic as holding transformative potential. Yet in pessimistic moments, he recognizes that while poetry and the Hebrew-Arabic connection profoundly changed him personally, personal transformation does not automatically translate into changing the world at large.

Behar contextualizes this dynamic through the history of Arab Jews (Mizrahim). Before 1948, approximately one million Jews spoke Arabic, but intense systemic pressures to assimilate forced the rapid erasure and forgetting of the language over the subsequent two to three decades. For second- and third-generation descendants of these immigrants, reclaiming Arabic was only possible through Palestinian Arabic and Palestinian literature: - The path back to Arabic expression did not lead to ancestral Baghdadi Judeo-Arabic, but to the living dialect and literary corpus of Palestinians. - Behar notes that two decades ago, he maintained the optimistic view that spreading knowledge alone could resolve historical fractures. - Today, he realizes the conflict stems from far deeper human and societal currents that sheer awareness cannot easily heal. - A decade ago, he might have concluded with the hopeful prediction that Hebrew and Arabic would merge within 50 years; today, he admits he no longer knows how to offer an easy, optimistic ending.

[42:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2559s) Gender, Survival, and Language Choice in Poetry

Moderator Stephanie Kraver introduces a discussion focused on the mechanics of their verse. She asks Abou Shmeiss about her poem *A Rock in the Feminine Form*, noting its footnote on how stone/rock is grammatically masculine in Hebrew (*even*) and feminine in Arabic (*sakhr* or *hajar*). She simultaneously prompts Behar about his bilingual poem *Amal is Hope* (*Tikva he Amal*), asking about his linguistic choices and the themes of longing within it.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Linguistic Evolution Across Generations accDescr: Diagram illustrating how historical conditions shaped the language acquisition and poetic choices of Abou Shmeiss and Behar.

subgraph AbouShmeiss["Ayat Abou Shmeiss: From Survival to Poetic Reappropriation"] A["Illiterate mother (Nakba survivor)"] -->|"prioritizes defensive literacy"| B["Enrollment in French school"] B -->|"taught Hebrew as native, lose spoken Arabic"| C["Writes in Hebrew while centering Palestinian identity"] C -->|"plays with gender differences"| D["'A Rock in the Feminine Form'"] end

subgraph Behar["Almog Behar: Polyphony and Reclamation"] E["Erosion of Baghdadi Judeo-Arabic"] -->|"learns Palestinian Arabic"| F["Bilingual composition"] F -->|"translation flattens bilingualism into monolingualism"| G["Simultaneous dual-language writing"] end ```

Responding first, Abou Shmeiss explains the personal history behind why she writes primarily in Hebrew. Her mother, a second-generation Nakba survivor who is illiterate, was consumed by the urge to protect her children through education. This ambition was not rooted in dreams of university degrees or literary fame, but in elemental survival: she wanted her children to be able to read formal letters issued by the Israeli state. Because underfunded schools in Jaffa lacked basic resources, her parents sacrificed financially—her father working overtime—to send them to a private French school.

At the French school, Hebrew was taught to students as a primary language (the Jewish curriculum), rather than the secondary curriculum designated for Arab schools. As a consequence, Abou Shmeiss lost much of her fluency in Arabic literacy, occasionally making reading mistakes that she stresses were not her fault, but the outcome of survival choices. When she began publishing poetry, she resolved to embed her Palestinian and Jaffa heritage into Hebrew verse—inserting Arabic words, cultural references, and everyday intimacy (such as greeting her husband with *salamu alaykum*). In *A Rock in the Feminine Form*, she capitalized on the grammatical gender divide between Arabic and Hebrew to spotlight womanhood, resilience, and identity.

[47:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2876s) Polyphony and Untranslatable Verse

Almog Behar explains that his poem *Amal is Hope* was conceived nearly simultaneously in both languages while he was listening to the legendary Egyptian singer Umm Kulthum. He was struck by an earlier experience when his bilingual poem *My Arabic is Mute* was translated into Arabic by Rima Abu Jaber: because the original Hebrew sections became Arabic while the Arabic sections remained unchanged, the resulting text flattened into a monolingual poem.

This realization prompted Behar to compose directly in both tongues at once. In Arabic and Hebrew, the wordplay unearths layered ancestral resonance: - The Hebrew word for hope (*tikva*) was pronounced *tikwah* by his Iraqi Jewish grandparents, carrying their Arabic phonology into Hebrew speech. - Reclaiming Arabic opened a portal allowing him to re-experience the specific Hebrew cadence of his family's past. - This experimental path eventually led him to compose poems where each individual line is split evenly between Hebrew and Arabic—works that defy translation entirely, which he jokes with a laugh that "only Ayat will understand."

[51:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3069s) Memorializing Lost Kin and Driving Through Grief

Abou Shmeiss prepares to share her newest piece, composed about a year prior, pausing briefly to put on her reading glasses so she can navigate the lengthy text. Before reading, she addresses the room in solemn silence, reading aloud the names and ages of her extended family members killed in Gaza during the war: - Ages 28, 25, 5, 3, 26, 6, 4, 13, and 22.

Following an Arabic recitation, she recites the poem in English. The piece captures the harrowing internal rupture of an ordinary morning commute: holding hands on the steering wheel, eyes fixed on the pavement, and feet toggling the gas and brakes, while her consciousness and heart are pulled completely to the bloodshed in Khan Yunis and Shuja'iyya.

Looking into her rearview mirror, the speaker studies her own reflection—eyes, nose, cheeks—desperately insisting: "I swear I look like a human being / We look like this / We are human beings / But they are slaughtering us." Overcome by tears and mounting fury, she forces herself to maintain control of the car so she does not crash among other people on the road. Arriving at her workplace consumed by shame and bitterness, she looks around at those around her, tormented by the agonizing realization of where she is: wondering which of her colleagues or neighbors had just served in Gaza and pulled the trigger on the weapons that took her family's lives.

[58:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3480s) Between the Classroom and Gaza: A Teacher's Grief

Ayat Abou Shmeiss concludes her poem with an agonizing depiction of cognitive dissonance and mourning in the wake of an airstrike. She recounts the collapse of a seven-story residential building that buried human beings alive: the granddaughter Rania, along with Haron, Hind, Julia, and their grandmother Rania—a woman with whom Abou Shmeiss had sat before the war at her own grandmother’s home. Gazing at the Israeli faces around her, she is overwhelmed by suspicion and sorrow, wondering who among them might have dropped the bomb: "Perhaps it's he / Or that one / Or that one / Or this one's husband / Or that one's brother / Or he / Perhaps his nephew / They they they." Losing her composure for a moment, she retreats to a restroom to splash running water over her face, whispering, "We are human beings."

Gathering herself, she walks into a classroom to teach the Arabic language to Jewish, Hebrew-speaking Israelis. When the lesson ends, the school principal convenes an urgent faculty meeting to discuss pedagogy. As the meeting wraps up, someone suddenly calls out for a round of applause for "Moshe"—she notes that is not his real name—who has just returned from months of military reserve duty. The room erupts with praise for "our hero," and everyone claps.

Abou Shmeiss contrasts that celebration with her own internal exile as she gets into her car to drive away. Her hands grip the steering wheel, her eyes watch the road, and her foot presses the pedals, but her spirit is trapped elsewhere: "My head remains in Gaza / My blood flows in Shuja'iyya / Where my grandmother was born in Gaza / Where Haron, Hind, and little Rania were martyred." She closes her reading by describing the lingering agony of that displacement: "And ever since, my eyes remained wide open / And it burns, ya rabby / It burns."

[59:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3597s) "If I Were a Jewish Mother"

Before yielding the microphone, Abou Shmeiss recites a brief, searing verse directly addressing the maternal sacrifice demanded by Israeli militarism. Speaking in a quiet, deliberate cadence, she imagines what her love would look like if she occupied the position of an Israeli mother ordered to surrender her child to the army. Rather than comply, she would unleash a desperate, physical resistance to anchor him home:

> "If I were a Jewish mother > And I had to send > My son to the army > I would fight > I would tie his tongue to his ears > I would glue my hands to his legs > I would hang my heart on his eyes > So he would not go."

The audience receives the short poem with sustained applause as she whispers her thanks.

[01:00:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3629s) "Tisha B'Av": Ancient Ruin and Present Slaughter

Almog Behar takes the lectern, announcing that he is changing the order of his scheduled readings. He first delivers a poem in Hebrew before reading its English translation by Vivian Eden, titled "Tisha B'Av 2025." To frame the piece for the audience, Behar explains that Tisha B'Av is the solemn Jewish fast day commemorating the catastrophic destruction of the First and Second Temples in Jerusalem, first by the Babylonians and later by the Romans.

In the first movement of the poem, Behar evokes the traditional rituals of the fast day. In prior years on the eve of the 9th of Av, he would walk to the ancient ruins of Jerusalem to recite the Book of Lamentations (*Eicha*), abstaining from offering or returning the traditional greeting of *shalom* (peace). He would place a rough stone beneath his pillow at night so he would not fall asleep in a destroyed Jerusalem only to wake up comfortably in a rebuilt city; instead, he sought the right to remain in mourning, accompanied in sleep by visions of messiahs born and slain, before searching the streets at midday for genuine seekers of peace.

The second and third sections shatter this historical commemoration against the backdrop of present-day violence. Today, Behar laments, "the destruction isn't 2000 years old / The destruction is a hungry newborn babe." The ancient scripture speaks in an unsparing present tense, but his mouth is so dry that "no spit remains on my tongue to grind its words." People sigh and plead for bread, but the bread tastes like gravel, and not only is the soul in shreds, but human flesh is torn to pieces. Echoing traditional liturgy, he asks how the living can praise God when the dead cannot speak from the dust, concluding with a haunting realization of mutual annihilation:

> "And the destruction of Jerusalem > Is amid the ruin of Gaza > And the Destruction of Gaza > Is amid the ruin of Jerusalem > Amid the already dead > And the soon to be dead."

[01:06:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3993s) "A Woman Awaits the Bombardment"

Behar introduces his next reading, "A Woman Awaits the Bombardment," dedicated to the Gazan writer Manal Miqdad and translated into English by Vivian Eden. After reciting the text in Hebrew, he presents the English version, which centers on the quiet, domestic terror of anticipating an airstrike.

The poem unfolds around a woman lying awake in bed, struggling through the night to fall asleep while mentally cataloging how her personal library should be distributed after her death: - Her travel and nature books should go to her closest school friend, who nurtures dreams of exploring streams and deserts the following summer. - The children's books still resting on her shelves should be donated to the orphanages that the ongoing war will inevitably create. - Her personal diaries must be burned by her father—or by neighbors, if he cannot—provided the bomb blast has not already incinerated them. - The unread English books are earmarked for her cousin, who confided in her his simple dream of surviving and living. - Books previously borrowed by friends should simply stay in their care, provided they promise never to dog-ear the corners or mark the pages, leaving them free to bequeath the volumes to others in the event of another bombardment.

Around her mattress, Behar reads, "no heroes surround it / Just fear in the nights." The mute books have no say in who inherits them. She lies waiting, hoping for a dreamless sleep that is spared the thunder of explosions—content instead to be kept awake by the ordinary sounds of neighboring children playing, even as their stomachs churn with sheer panic.

[01:10:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=4241s) What Is Lost and Gained in Translation

Moderator Stephanie Kraver opens the final fifteen minutes of the event to audience questions, beginning with an inquiry into the translation process and asking how much personal truth is inevitably lost when poems cross linguistic boundaries.

Ayat Abou Shmeiss reflects on how translation introduces an intermediary into what is fundamentally an intimate, private encounter between author and reader. While translators strive to preserve original intentions, subtle emotional nuances and linguistic textures inevitably shift. However, she notes that translation provides an indispensable bridge to readers who cannot access her original tongues. Furthermore, she embraces the idea of artistic release: once she publishes a poem, it no longer belongs solely to her. Just as she cannot keep tight possession of the original text once it enters the public sphere, she accepts that a translated poem takes on its own communal life.

Almog Behar echoes this sentiment by citing Kahlil Gibran’s observation that children do not truly belong to their parents, applying the maxim to poems once they leave the author's desk. Drawing on Salman Rushdie’s concept of what is *gained* in translation, Behar recounts his early experiences collaborating with Palestinian translators to bring Hebrew works into Arabic. Rather than feeling diminished, he found that working across languages opened surprising avenues of meaning and fresh interpretations that enriched the original poems. He likens the translation process to setting a lyric to music: someone else composes an accompaniment or creates an alternative arrangement, granting the poem a vibrant second life.

[01:14:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=4484s) Writing Arabic, Crossing Borders, and Family Reckonings

Kraver turns to the practical and psychological hurdles of writing in Arabic, asking the panelists about the obstacles they face and how Arabic-reading audiences receive their work.

Abou Shmeiss admits that she wrestles continually with language, dialect, and grammar, feeling an ongoing tension between Arabic and Hebrew—though she struggles even more intensely with Hebrew. When she began publishing, the Palestinian community in her native Jaffa embraced her warmly, accepting her bilingual voice without hesitation. Other Palestinian readers, however, were initially suspicious, questioning her motivations and asking whether writing in Hebrew meant she was trying to assimilate and "be Israeli." Yet, as Abou Shmeiss explains, once skeptics actually opened the books and read the poems, they recognized that her voice was authentic and uncompromised, shifting their criticism to genuine understanding.

Behar responds through the lens of family history, recalling how his parents initially reacted with bewilderment when he began returning to the Arabic language in his prose and poetry: - His parents felt that their family had spent decades shedding their Middle Eastern mother tongue in order to assimilate into Israeli society, and they would have preferred he pursue a bilingual project in Albanian or another unrelated language. - They viewed his cultural journey as an inexplicable "obsession," questioning why anyone would deliberately resurrect a language they had worked so hard to leave behind. - Their perspective shifted completely when Behar's short story, *Ana Min Al-Yahoud* ("I am from the Jews"—born out of the poem of the same name), was translated into Arabic and published in Cairo.

Because Cairo remained the undisputed cultural capital of the Arab world, publication there bestowed undeniable prestige. Behar recalls that seeing his work celebrated in Egypt finally legitimized his literary obsession in his parents' eyes, illustrating how translation can breach political and geographical borders even where physical barriers remain rigid.

[01:18:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=4715s) Translating Judeo-Arabic and Rabbinical Hebrew for an Egyptian Audience

Almog Behar reflects on the experience of stepping outside the local Israeli literary sphere when his novel was translated into Arabic in Cairo, Egypt. Because the novel contains distinct linguistic layers—specifically Judeo-Arabic and rabbinical Hebrew—the process demanded extensive dialogue with his Egyptian translator. Behar felt it was crucial to preserve the presence of Judeo-Arabic within the Arabic version rather than smoothing it out. To prevent it from looking bizarre to readers while signaling its specificity, the translator set those sections in side margins or distinct visual layouts, making it clear that it represented a dialect they were not necessarily expected to know fluently.

Equally challenging was translating the passages informed by rabbinical Hebrew. Behar and the translator engaged in deep discussions comparing rabbinical registers with classical Arabic Sufi sources to discover linguistic equivalents that carried the appropriate mystical and spiritual weight. The collaborative process felt like creating the work anew, editing and recalibrating phrasing to determine exactly what the novel should sound and look like for an Arabic-speaking audience.

---

[01:20:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=4829s) Advice for Young Poets: The Internal Truth and the Sudden Rush

Moderator Stephanie Kraver reads an audience question asking what advice the speakers have for young poets who wish to tackle controversial topics, and how to write for a broader audience. Almog Behar takes the first part of the question. He explains that for him, writing does not start by identifying an issue or a political stance and setting out to cover it; instead, it is rooted deeply in personal lived experience. Writing—poetry in particular, more so than prose—serves as a tool when it is difficult to speak honestly with oneself. For Behar, controversy is secondary: if a poem allows him to conduct a rare, successful dialogue with himself and discover a new internal truth, he considers the poem a success.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Approaches to Writing Poetry Under Pressure accDescr: Diagram illustrating Almog Behar's internal truth method versus Ayat Abou Shmeiss's raw kinetic capture method.

subgraph BeharApproach ["Almog Behar: Internal Dialogue"] A["Personal Experience & Difficulty"] --> B["Poetic Exploration"] B --> C["Uncovering Internal Truth"] end

subgraph AbouShmeissApproach ["Ayat Abou Shmeiss: Kinetic Impulse"] D["Anger & Emotional Intensity"] --> E["Opening the Door to Flowing Words"] E --> F["Immediate Recording Without Erasing"] end ```

Behar passes the microphone to Ayat Abou Shmeiss to address reaching audiences and writing raw material. Her advice is visceral: "when you're angry. Write a lot. Don't erase anything that you write." She encourages aspiring writers to invent unusual words and coin new expressions from unexpected sources. She recalls a time when poems would flood her mind during a brief 15-minute commute to work while riding a motorbike. The moment poetic phrases begin knocking on the mind, one must simply "open the door" and record them immediately without self-censorship.

---

[01:24:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=5056s) "Eyes on the Road": Fear, Uniforms, and Unfiltered Realities

Stephanie Kraver brings the conversation back to the readings earlier in the session, noting an audience question regarding the strong, direct language used in the poems and asking what it meant to read them today. Abou Shmeiss addresses her poem *Eyes on the Road*, stating that she wrote it in a state of intense anger and did not want to soften its impact. She explains that Israeli Jews often express that they fear Arabs, fear the Arabic language, and carry intense historical trauma. While she accepts that fear is a valid emotion that cannot be argued away, she insists that Israelis must recognize that fear flows both ways.

Abou Shmeiss shares the terror that uniforms and weapons evoke for her as a Palestinian: - Uniforms and guns do not represent security or bravery to her; they evoke death, blood, and the vulnerability of her own family. - She recalls arriving in London for the first time and being struck with immediate relief that there were no armed soldiers or uniforms on the streets. - She points out the stark contrast in perspective: while Israelis view the armed soldier as a symbol of bravery ("brave for you"), to her it represents a terrifying reality. - Authentic dialogue cannot occur by making things "nice" or "cutey"; genuine conversation requires putting raw fears directly in front of each other’s faces and confronting oneself honestly in the mirror.

Almog Behar adds that writing poetry is not an omnipresent state, especially amidst devastating trauma. For the first three months following October 7, 2023, he found himself completely unable to write original poetry. To break the silence, he combed through the Hebrew Bible, collecting every verse that contained the word "war" (*milchama*). His first composition of that period was an assemblage constructed entirely of those biblical verses without a single word of his own. Borrowing the biblical text allowed him to enter back into language when his own words had failed, creating a pathway to eventually address the ongoing reality directly.

---

[01:29:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=5350s) Concluding Remarks and Upcoming Events

Moderator Stephanie Kraver thanks both poets for their candor and invites the audience to applaud. Jeffrey Veidlinger then takes the microphone to close the Samantha Woll Dialogues event, directing students enrolled in ALA 259 to their regular classroom and inviting remaining participants to join the post-event discussion in Conference Room East.

Veidlinger announces the upcoming campus event on October 27, which will explore the question "Should universities strive to bridge division?" featuring three prominent academic leaders: - Mary Sue Coleman, former President of the University of Michigan - Brian Rosenberg, former President of Macalester College - Teresa Sullivan, former President of the University of Virginia

The session concludes with final words of appreciation for the guest poets and the moderator.

## Notable quotes > [04:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=258s) My Arabic is mute / Strangled at the throat / Cursing itself without uttering a word / Sleeps in the earliest shelters of my soul / Hiding from relatives behind the Hebrew blinds / And my Hebrew is raging / Running between rooms and neighbor's balconies / Making its voice heard in public / Prophesying the coming of God and of bulldozers... — Almog Behar

> [04:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=258s) Amal is hope / Hayati is my life / And when they meet / Between the lips of Umm Kulthum and my own ears / A great many longings will dig wells in my heart. — Almog Behar

> [11:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=679s) I dragged the words I haven't learned yet / My language drown / My teeth storming like the sea in a wintry day / I can't snare a single word with my palate / Raise my voice like a fishing rod / And bear a basket filled with mute tongues / Mute as fish / That I place / On the counter / In your kitchen. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

> [11:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=679s) I have a rock on the back of my neck, / Encased in silk / I don't remember who put it there / But I remember that I wrapped it myself / So it would at least look nice / I go everywhere with it / Disabled, but imagine without a wheelchair / People around me stare but don't comment / Apparently they think / That I like it or it's good for me / Perhaps because I wrapped it / I remember that it's been there / Since it was just a pebble. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

> [18:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1128s) Actually, it was because I have some tensions and some arguments, very foolish, with my mom, and to write it was just kind of a expression and it just felt free. I had the freedom to write whatever I want in the way that I wanted. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

> [22:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1371s) Really, I didn't realize that this is an issue. So I live in Jaffa, and Jaffa it's a mixed city... Hebrew was everywhere. The language was like everyday language... It wasn't kind of military language or something like that. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

> [27:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1640s) Her parents, of course, didn't stop speaking with her in Arabic. They didn't have another language. But from that day, she stopped answering them in Arabic. She became passive in Arabic. She heard it, but answered in Hebrew. — Almog Behar

> [27:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=1640s) And that was the moment that I understood that someone from outside the family, that the state decided that we wouldn't be able to talk with her in the last month of her life. — Almog Behar

> [33:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=2003s) And it was like the first time when I saw during the genocide, like Israeli and Palestinian together, like gathering through poetry. It was very excited. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

> [51:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3069s) I swear I look like a human being / We look like this / We are human beings / But they are slaughtering us. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

> [59:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3597s) If I were a Jewish mother And I had to send My son to the army I would fight I would tie his tongue to his ears I would glue my hands to his legs I would hang my heart on his eyes So he would not go. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

> [01:00:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=3629s) And the destruction of Jerusalem Is amid the ruin of Gaza And the Destruction of Gaza Is amid the ruin of Jerusalem Amid the already dead And the soon to be dead. — Almog Behar

> [01:20:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI&t=4829s) when you're angry. Write a lot. Don't erase anything that you write. — Ayat Abou Shmeiss

## Mentioned Jeffrey Veidlinger, Irene Butter, Raoul Wallenberg, Samantha Woll, Margo Woll, Douglas Woll, Monica Rosen, Ben Rosen, Miriam Mora, Eleanor Camp, Alexis Gideon, Joe Johnston, Almog Behar, Ayat Abou Shmeiss, Stephanie Kraver, Dimi Reider, Rima Jaber, Shoshana Olidort, Umm Kulthum, Lisa Katz, Fadwa Tuqan, Dr. Rachel Korazim, Vivian Eden, Manal Miqdad, Kahlil Gibran, Salman Rushdie, Mary Sue Coleman, Brian Rosenberg, Teresa Sullivan, University of Michigan, Raoul Wallenberg Institute, Zeitouna, Samantha Woll Dialogues, Tel Aviv University, Mi'tan, Jaffa Theatre, Rackham Amphitheater, My Arabic, A Basket Filled with Mute Tongues, I am Two, An Unmothered Tongue, A Rock in the Feminine Form, Writing Past Difference, Amal is Hope, Tisha B'Av 2025, A Woman Awaits the Bombardment, Ana Min Al-Yahoud, Eyes on the Road, Book of Lamentations

## Video description Can Israelis and Palestinians Talk Through Poetry?

This conversation, part of the Samantha Woll Dialogues, brings together two writers, Almog Behar and Ayat Abou Shmeiss, both of whom use the language of poetry to explore their own identities: Jerusalem-born Behar looks to his family roots in Iraq and Turkey to advocate for the restoration of Arabic to its place in Jewish culture, and Jaffa-born Abou Shmeiss expresses her dual identity as a Muslim-Palestinian and as an Israeli citizen in her award-winning poetry and human rights advocacy. The panel will be moderated by Raoul Wallenberg Institute Fellow Stephanie Kraver, a scholar of modern Arabic and Hebrew literature who specializes in transcultural exchange, expressions of mourning, trauma theory, and translation.

October 6, 2026 Rackham Amphitheater

A version of this video with audio descriptions is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x6VSWnIiYI

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-98iEuHfI)

中文简报

Behar与Abou Shmeiss跨越希伯来语与阿拉伯语直面加沙战争创伤 以色列人与巴勒斯坦人之间的真诚对话需要直接面对原始的恐惧与共同的毁灭,而不是为了客套共存而掩盖创伤。 10月7日前夕,在拉克姆露天剧场(Rackham Amphitheater)举行的一场活动中,出生于耶路撒冷的米兹拉希犹太诗人Almog Behar与出生于雅法的巴勒斯坦女诗人Ayat Abou Shmeiss用希伯来语、阿拉伯语和英语朗诵了多语种作品。讨论梳理了Behar对其家族被压制的阿拉伯裔犹太人传统的重新寻回,以及Abou Shmeiss如何巧妙运用希伯来语来表达巴勒斯坦女性的日常现实并对抗体制性沉默。两位作家都谈到了加沙战争带来的毁灭性情感冲击,朗诵了关于个人丧失、恐惧和共同毁灭的灼痛人心的作品,同时坦率评估了跨文化团结的局限性。该研讨会最后反思了双语出版、不可翻译性,以及诗歌作为直面内心的镜子而非流于表面的桥梁所扮演的角色。 密歇根大学的萨曼莎·沃尔对话(Samantha Woll Dialogues)汇聚了诗人Almog Behar和Ayat Abou Shmeiss,共同探讨在持续的战争中,诗歌表达是否能够弥合以色列与巴勒斯坦之间的深刻裂痕。 (0:01) Ayat Abou Shmeiss解释称,她主要选择用希伯来语写作是在混居城市雅法生活的自然结果,她利用这种语言绕过政治把关,就巴勒斯坦人的现实生活直接向以色列社会发声。 (22:51) Almog Behar强调了20世纪50年代以色列激进的同化政策如何切断了米兹拉希家庭与祖传犹太阿拉伯语的联系,迫使后代通过当代巴勒斯坦人的口语和文学来重新寻回这门语言。 (27:20) 两位作家都展示了涉及加沙战争的灼痛诗篇,其中Abou Shmeiss悼念了在空袭中丧生的九名大家族成员,Behar则将古代圣经中对圣殿毁灭的哀叹与加沙和耶路撒冷当代的毁灭联系起来。 (51:09)

Reading summary

Speaking at the University of Michigan's Samantha Woll Dialogues, poets Almog Behar and Ayat Abou Shmeiss examined how Arabic and Hebrew reflect systemic political divides, personal grief, and the precarious possibility of cross-cultural dialogue amid ongoing war. Linguistic Estrangement and Reappropriation (22:51) Both writers traced how state-level pressures and survival strategies alienated them from their ancestral languages. Abou Shmeiss, a Palestinian from Jaffa, recounted that her illiterate mother enrolled her in a private French school so she could master Hebrew to read official Israeli state correspondence. While this prioritized defensive literacy, it weakened her formal Arabic, ultimately prompting her to write poetry in Hebrew to bypass political gatekeeping and directly address Israeli society. When critics questioned if writing in the dominant tongue compromised her identity, readers subsequently recognized her authentic focus on Palestinian womanhood and everyday life. Behar, an Israeli of Iraqi Jewish heritage, described how Israel's 1950s assimilationist policies suppressed his mother's Baghdadi Judeo-Arabic, restricting her to Hebrew responses. The cost of this systemic erasure became starkly apparent when his grandmother developed dementia and reverted entirely to Iraqi Arabic, leaving the 17-year-old Behar unable to speak with her. Reclaiming Arabic at age 23 required learning living Palestinian Arabic rather than his family's lost dialect, an effort that enabled him to confront inherited silence and compose polyphonic, bilingual works. Shared Trauma and Divergent Perceptions of Violence (51:09) The poets engaged directly with the human costs of war, contrasting their internal grief with everyday surroundings. Abou Shmeiss read the names and ages of extended family members killed in Gaza—ranging from toddlers to young adults—and shared verse capturing her commute to work while picturing airstrikes in Khan Yunis and Shuja'iyya. She highlighted the painful cognitive dissonance of teaching Arabic to Jewish Israelis while school colleagues celebrated soldiers returning from reserve duty. She noted that while armed soldiers symbolize bravery to Israeli Jews, uniforms and weapons evoke existential terror and family slaughter for Palestinians, arguing that authentic dialogue requires confronting these asymmetric fears rather than softening them. Behar addressed contemporary destruction through historical and liturgical reframing. Reading his poem 'Tisha B'Av 2025,' he linked the traditional Jewish fast day mourning Jerusalem's ancient ruins to modern bombardments, stating that the destruction of Jerusalem and Gaza are mutually entangled. In another piece dedicated to Gazan writer Manal Miqdad, Behar depicted a woman cataloging which friends and orphanages should inherit her books before an airstrike, illustrating the domestic reality of civilians awaiting bombardment. Bilingual Publishing and Fraught Cultural Solidarity (33:23) Examining the cultural landscape following October 7, 2023, both panelists assessed the viability of shared literary initiatives. Abou Shmeiss, director of the Mi'tan publishing house, noted that organizing readings of Gazan poetry in Jaffa created rare moments of shared presence, though some Gazan authors firmly refused to have their works translated into the language of their occupiers. While Abou Shmeiss expressed disappointment at the broader lack of response within Israel's literary community against the military campaign in Gaza, she cited an exception in Tel Aviv where Israeli poets gathered publicly to condemn military actions. Behar reflected that while cross-linguistic work transformed him personally, personal change does not automatically solve deep-seated geopolitical conflicts. After October 7, he experienced three months of poetic paralysis, only resuming writing by compiling biblical verses containing the word 'war' (milchama). Both authors agreed that translation provides an essential, if imperfect, bridge: Abou Shmeiss viewed published translation as surrendering work to communal life, while Behar recounted that translating his writing into Arabic in Cairo—requiring careful preservation of Judeo-Arabic and rabbinic registers—legitimized his artistic reclamation across hardened borders. While poetry offers a medium to voice suppressed histories, personal bereavement, and mutual fears, both Behar and Abou Shmeiss acknowledged that artistic engagement faces severe strain under active wartime devastation, leaving the broader political impact of cross-cultural dialogue unresolved.

Source quotes

[4:18] Almog Behar: My Arabic is mute / Strangled at the throat / Cursing itself without uttering a word / Sleeps in the earliest shelters of my soul / Hiding from relatives behind the Hebrew blinds / And my Hebrew is raging / Running between rooms and neighbor's balconies / Making its voice heard in public / Prophesying the coming of God and of bulldozers... [4:18] Almog Behar: Amal is hope / Hayati is my life / And when they meet / Between the lips of Umm Kulthum and my own ears / A great many longings will dig wells in my heart. [11:19] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: I dragged the words I haven't learned yet / My language drown / My teeth storming like the sea in a wintry day / I can't snare a single word with my palate / Raise my voice like a fishing rod / And bear a basket filled with mute tongues / Mute as fish / That I place / On the counter / In your kitchen. [11:19] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: I have a rock on the back of my neck, / Encased in silk / I don't remember who put it there / But I remember that I wrapped it myself / So it would at least look nice / I go everywhere with it / Disabled, but imagine without a wheelchair / People around me stare but don't comment / Apparently they think / That I like it or it's good for me / Perhaps because I wrapped it / I remember that it's been there / Since it was just a pebble. [18:48] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: Actually, it was because I have some tensions and some arguments, very foolish, with my mom, and to write it was just kind of a expression and it just felt free. I had the freedom to write whatever I want in the way that I wanted. [22:51] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: Really, I didn't realize that this is an issue. So I live in Jaffa, and Jaffa it's a mixed city... Hebrew was everywhere. The language was like everyday language... It wasn't kind of military language or something like that. [27:20] Almog Behar: Her parents, of course, didn't stop speaking with her in Arabic. They didn't have another language. But from that day, she stopped answering them in Arabic. She became passive in Arabic. She heard it, but answered in Hebrew. [27:20] Almog Behar: And that was the moment that I understood that someone from outside the family, that the state decided that we wouldn't be able to talk with her in the last month of her life. [33:23] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: And it was like the first time when I saw during the genocide, like Israeli and Palestinian together, like gathering through poetry. It was very excited. [51:09] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: I swear I look like a human being / We look like this / We are human beings / But they are slaughtering us. [59:57] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: If I were a Jewish mother And I had to send My son to the army I would fight I would tie his tongue to his ears I would glue my hands to his legs I would hang my heart on his eyes So he would not go. [60:29] Almog Behar: And the destruction of Jerusalem Is amid the ruin of Gaza And the Destruction of Gaza Is amid the ruin of Jerusalem Amid the already dead And the soon to be dead. [80:29] Ayat Abou Shmeiss: when you're angry. Write a lot. Don't erase anything that you write.

Original transcript

[0:01] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: Hello, everybody. [0:02] Welcome My name is Jeffrey Veidlinger, [0:05] and I'm the director of the Raoul Wallenberg Institute [0:08] here at the University of Michigan. [0:10] Thank you all for joining us this afternoon. [0:13] Thank you in particular to the students who are with us. [0:17] I want to remind all the students, those of you who [0:19] are in ALA259, in the class that it revolves around these, [0:23] to go to your usual classroom afterwards for continuing [0:26] discussion. [0:27] And if there are students here who [0:28] are not enrolled in that class and would [0:30] like to continue the discussion afterwards with free food, [0:35] you can do so next door in the East Conference room over there. [0:40] There will be free food for students and the opportunity [0:42] to have moderated discussion about what we're seeing here [0:46] on the stage afterwards. [0:48] So again, thank you, and I encourage you to come. [0:51] Thank you as well to the staff of the Wallenberg Institute, [0:54] Miriam Mora, Eleanor Camp, Alexis Gideon, and Joe Johnston, [0:59] for helping make this event possible. [1:02] I want to begin today by noting the passing on Friday [1:07] of Irene Bader, a local Holocaust survivor, educator, [1:11] social activist, and inspiration for so much good in the world. [1:16] And some of us in this room attended her funeral [1:19] just a few hours ago today. [1:21] She was one of the founders of détenu, [1:23] a group of local Jewish and Palestinian women [1:26] who have been meeting together for decades to foster dialogue [1:30] and to share in each other's humanity. [1:34] She was also one of the founders of the Raoul Wallenberg Medal [1:36] and Endowment, which each year recognizes [1:39] an outstanding humanitarian who has shown how one person can [1:44] make a difference. [1:45] Irene regularly spoke to classes around the university [1:49] and shared her optimism in humanity, [1:51] despite the horrors that she had endured as a child. [1:55] She will be missed and leaves behind a remarkable legacy. [1:59] We were very pleased to have her speak [2:02] at the very first one of these events [2:03] that we did at our inaugural event [2:05] for the Raoul Wallenberg Institute, [2:07] and grateful for her support in the last two years [2:11] since we've been in existence. [2:13] The Raoul Wallenberg Institute was established [2:16] by the University in December 2023 [2:19] as part of a university-wide effort [2:22] to combat anti-Semitism and advance religious diversity [2:25] and inclusion on all three campuses. [2:28] Over the years, our mission has come [2:31] to embrace fighting, combating, and studying [2:34] ethnic and religious hatred of all kinds around the globe. [2:38] Raoul Wallenberg, the institute's namesake, [2:40] was in 1935 Michigan alum who worked with the United States [2:45] and Swedish governments in Budapest [2:47] to save thousands of Jews from deportation to the Auschwitz [2:50] death camp. [2:51] After the war, he was detained by the Red Army [2:54] and died in a Soviet prison. [2:57] The Samantha Wall dialogues are an important part [2:59] of our mission. [3:01] This series of conversations on contemporary issues [3:04] of consequence was established to honor [3:07] the memory of Samantha Wall, a passionate community [3:10] leader, committed grassroots organizer, and advocate [3:13] for interfaith conversations who was tragically murdered [3:16] in 2023 at the age of 40. [3:19] Thank you to her family, Margo and Doug Wall, [3:22] and Monica and Ben Rosen for helping us realize [3:25] the vision of this series. [3:28] This afternoon, on the Eve of October 7, [3:32] we've brought together three individuals committed [3:35] to the principles of dialogue and intergroup understanding [3:38] through poetry in order to help us address [3:41] the fundamental question of can Israelis and Palestinians talk [3:45] through poetry. [3:49] What we're going to do is we're going to have each of the poets [3:52] or two poets come up and read some poetry first, [3:57] and then I'll invite Stephanie up to engage in dialogue, [4:01] to have a conversation, to ask them some questions. [4:04] And after she's done, after she has asked a few questions, [4:08] we will be distributing index cards in which you [4:10] can write your own questions that Stephanie will then [4:14] ask our ask our guests. [4:18] So first I'll invite up Almog Behar. [4:22] Almog was born in Netanya in 1978. [4:25] He is a poet. [4:27] He is a poet, novelist, translator, researcher [4:30] and scholar. [4:31] Bahat lives in Jerusalem and teaches [4:33] in the Department of literature at Tel Aviv University [4:36] about the connections between Hebrew and Arabic literatures, [4:40] the connections between the Jewish liturgical poetry [4:42] traditions and modern Mizrahi literature, Jewish writing, [4:46] and Judeo-Arabic, and literary Arabic, and the way [4:49] Jewish writers negotiate with Islamic traditions. [4:52] He has published four poetry collections, a collection [4:55] of short stories, and a novel, many of which [4:57] explore his relationship with Arabic and his own Middle [5:01] Eastern roots. [5:02] So, Almog, I'll invite you up. [5:03] ALMOG BEHAR: Thank you. [5:04] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [5:07] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: You have your own? [5:09] ALMOG BEHAR: Yeah. [5:14] Thanks a lot, and I'm happy to be here. [5:19] And I will read first in Hebrew. [5:24] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: Do you have a microphone? [5:26] Are you wearing the microphone? [5:28] ALMOG BEHAR: Yeah, as well. [5:29] I think it works. [5:30] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: You can hear? [5:31] AUDIENCE: No. [5:34] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: Hold this the old fashioned way. [5:37] ALMOG BEHAR: [SPEAKING HEBREW] [8:19] My Arabic [8:22] My Arabic is mute [8:24] Strangled at the throat [8:26] Cursing itself without uttering a word [8:30] Sleeps in the earliest shelters of my soul [8:34] Hiding from relatives behind the Hebrew blinds [8:39] And my Hebrew is raging [8:41] Running between rooms and neighbor's balconies [8:44] Making its voice heard in public [8:47] Prophesying the coming of God and of bulldozers [8:51] And then it holds up in the living room [8:55] Thinking itself so open in the language of its skin [9:00] So hidden between the pages of its flesh [9:04] A moment naked [9:06] A moment later dressed [9:08] It curls up into the armchair [9:11] And begs itself for forgiveness [9:14] My Arabic is petrified [9:17] It quietly pretends to be Hebrew [9:19] And whispers to friends [9:21] Whenever somebody knocks at her gate [9:26] Ahlan Ahlan [9:27] And whenever a policeman passes it in the street [9:31] It produces an ID card and points out the protective clause [9:36] [SPEAKING HEBREW] [9:39] And my Hebrew is deaf [9:42] Sometimes very deaf [9:45] The translator into English was Dimi Reider [9:50] and into Arabic Rima Jaber. [9:56] And the first poem I translated myself into Arabic. [10:03] [SPEAKING ARABIC] [10:41] And it's translated into English by Shoshana Olidort and "Amal [10:47] Hayati" is one of the famous songs of Umm Kulthum [10:51] and my favorite. [10:54] Amal is hope [10:56] Hayati is my life [10:58] And when they meet [11:00] Between the lips of Umm kulthum and my own ears [11:04] A great many longings will dig wells in my heart. [11:10] Thank you. [11:11] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [11:19] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: Thank you, Almog. [11:20] That's really lovely and great to hear the languages [11:24] and how they play off each other is really beautiful. [11:28] Our next speaker will be Ayat Abou Smeiss. [11:32] Ayat Abou Shmeiss was born in Jaffa in 1984. [11:36] She's a poet and an activist. [11:38] She's the author of two bilingual Hebrew Arabic poetry [11:42] collections, A Basket Filled with Mute Tongues from 2013 [11:46] and I am Two from 2018. [11:49] Her third poetry collection, An Unmothered Tongue, [11:53] is her first book in English and was just published, [11:56] I understand. [11:57] Just came out or is not yet. [11:58] Is soon coming out, is on its way out very soon, [12:02] and brings together poems from her previously published [12:05] two books alongside previously unpublished work. [12:09] Her poetry explores issues of identity, language, silence, [12:13] everyday life and duality, with a focus on women's experiences. [12:18] Alongside her literary work, she develops cultural projects [12:22] on Palestinian women, both contemporary and historical. [12:26] She heads the independent publishing house Mi'tan, and her [12:29] work has received recognition through awards for both her [12:32] literary writing and her feminist cultural activism. [12:36] So please welcome Ayat. [12:38] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [12:46] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: Well, marhaba. [12:48] Hello. [12:50] OK. [12:50] I'm so excited. [12:52] First, really thank you for inviting me. [12:57] Second, I just want to say that-- [13:01] I'm so excited-- that my English is not my first language. [13:05] Neither my second, neither my third. [13:08] It's my fourth language. [13:10] And sometimes I mix between languages. [13:13] So just be aware. [13:17] That's it. [13:17] I'm going to read two poems. [13:19] I'm going to read in Hebrew, Arabic and in English. [13:22] The Arabic, I just today decided to read it. [13:30] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [13:59] From Arabic, it was translated by [INAUDIBLE]. [14:05] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [14:36] The English was translated by Lisa Katz. [14:42] I dragged the words I haven't learned yet [14:45] My language drown [14:47] My teeth storming like the sea in a wintry day [14:51] I can't snare a single word with my palate [14:55] Raise my voice like a fishing rod [14:57] And bear a basket filled with mute tongues [15:01] Mute as fish [15:03] That I place [15:04] On the counter [15:06] In your kitchen. [15:07] Thank you. [15:09] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [15:14] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: Thank you. [15:22] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: I told you that I too excited. [15:28] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [16:46] Again, the English translated by Lisa Katz. [16:50] A rock in the feminine form [16:52] I have a rock on the back of my neck, [16:56] Encased in silk [16:57] I don't remember who put it there [16:59] But I remember that I wrapped it myself [17:01] So it would at least look nice [17:04] I go everywhere with it [17:06] Disabled, but imagine without a wheelchair [17:09] People around me stare but don't comment [17:13] Apparently they think [17:16] That I like it or it's good for me [17:18] Perhaps because I wrapped it [17:21] I remember that it's been there [17:25] Since it was just a pebble [17:27] Thank you. [17:28] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [17:35] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: Lovely. [17:37] Thank you so much. [17:38] And we can see the similarity in style, similarity [17:41] in themes a little bit and differences [17:42] that we'll talk about I'm sure, in the next segment [17:45] of our program. [17:46] So at this point, I'll introduce Stephanie Kraver. [17:50] Stephanie is a fellow at the Raoul Wallenberg Institute [17:53] and a scholar of modern Arabic and Hebrew literature [17:56] who specializes in transcultural exchange, expressions [18:00] of mourning, trauma theory, and translation. [18:03] Her current project, Writing Past Difference, [18:06] challenges the linguistic and sociopolitical cleavages [18:10] that characterize Arab Jewish writing and identity politics. [18:14] And so I'll call up Stephanie and Almog and Ayat, [18:18] and I'll turn things over to Stephanie. [18:21] And maybe use the microphones just in-- [18:23] We can see how-- [18:25] we can start with those and see if there's two of these. [18:38] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Whichever you prefer. [18:42] OK. [18:43] Wow, I want to start off by saying [18:45] that it's such an immense honor and privilege to be [18:48] in conversation with you both today, [18:50] and I'm so glad we could start with your words, [18:53] your words in Hebrew, Arabic and English, no less. [18:57] Before we delve into discussing your poems, [19:00] I thought we could commence our dialogue with you both, [19:02] talking a bit about your backgrounds [19:05] and how you found your way to writing poetry. [19:08] How did you each come to poetry as your form [19:11] of artistic expression? [19:15] Whoever wants to go first. [19:17] ALMOG BEHAR: You hold the microphone. [19:20] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: OK, so. [19:23] Here? [19:27] No? [19:29] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Yes, yeah. [19:30] That's OK. [19:31] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: So my background. [19:34] Actually, I don't have a lot of background. [19:38] Like in my house at home, we didn't have shelves or poetry [19:42] books. [19:43] I didn't open a Fadwa Tuqan books or any other and read it [19:49] and say, OK, I'm going I want to be like Fadwa [19:53] Tuqan or any other poet. [19:55] Actually, it was because I have some tensions [20:00] and some arguments, very foolish, with my mom [20:04] and to write it was just kind of a expression [20:10] and it just felt free. [20:13] I had the freedom to write whatever I want in the way [20:17] that I wanted. [20:19] And this freedom was something that it was missing a bit also [20:25] at my school because I went like to a very tough school. [20:28] And just in writing, it was kind of very free. [20:33] So I took it. [20:36] Thank you. [20:40] ALMOG BEHAR: Thank you. [20:42] So you started from the hardest question. [20:46] Where are we going from here? [20:50] I think I started to write from whenever I remember myself [21:00] from a very young age in a way of a personal secret. [21:17] You write to the drawer for decades, in a sense. [21:24] And in I think, for me, writing was an act of envy what you read [21:40] and you start to write, maybe also in the beginning, [21:47] in the footsteps of others or in the other models that you [21:55] see there. [21:58] But it was very secretive in that sense until much later [22:08] in my early 20s, when it became a way to negotiate with [22:16] the world directly and not as a secret. [22:23] And that was also the moment in which, of course, [22:29] I started to write in Hebrew and when it became in conversation [22:36] with the world, it was also the time [22:38] when thinking about the different languages [22:46] became a central question for me. [22:51] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you both so much. [22:53] On this topic of writing in different languages, [22:56] can you share more about your experiences writing in Israel? [23:00] Ayat as a Palestinian who writes in Hebrew, [23:03] and Almog as a Jewish Israeli who [23:05] upholds the importance of Arabic in his works. [23:08] What is the reception of your verses in Israel and elsewhere? [23:15] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: You know that when I started to write, [23:18] I didn't thought about it that it was in Hebrew, [23:21] or that I'm Palestinian who writes in Hebrew. [23:25] So for me, it was this is the language that I know very well. [23:31] I was surrounded by this language. [23:34] I love this language. [23:36] And I just started from very action [23:40] that it was normal for me, very nature. [23:47] But when I published my first book, [23:50] I realized that it was an issue that mean, [23:56] I remember after like publishing my book, the first one, [24:01] a journalist made an interview with me, and she asked me, [24:06] is writing in Hebrew like sleeping with the enemy [24:09] or something like that? [24:10] I don't know what the question was, but something like that. [24:13] And me like what? [24:16] Really, I didn't realize that this is an issue. [24:21] So I live in Jaffa, and, Jaffa it's a mixed city. [24:25] And from, I opened my eyes-- from the moment [24:30] that I opened my eyes, I were living with Jews. [24:34] Hebrew was everywhere. [24:36] The language was like everyday language were simple. [24:42] It wasn't kind of military language or something like that. [24:45] Doing shoppings in Hebrew, going to my doctor, [24:49] it was in Hebrew, to the clinic to the post office. [24:53] Now, if I remember, there is no single person in Jaffa [24:57] that know or use the word post office in Arabic. [25:01] We all use Doha in Hebrew. [25:04] You just need to understand how much the Hebrew was inside [25:08] of us. [25:10] But there is one more reason that maybe later I'll share it. [25:15] So I didn't realize at the first. [25:20] So when she asked me, I say, OK, this is an issue. [25:24] I'm Palestinian and I write in Hebrew, [25:28] and Hebrew is a language of, the official language of Israel, [25:34] the state of the Jewish. [25:36] And this is a state that occupies us. [25:40] This is a state that is racist. [25:43] It is racist. [25:44] This is a state that actually tells me where to go, how to go. [25:51] If I can meet my relatives in Gaza on the West Bank or not. [25:57] So I just understand it that it was very, very difficult for me. [26:06] But I couldn't not try write in other language. [26:18] I try to it wasn't so good. [26:23] So I say OK, because usually the Israeli society, when [26:29] they look at us, the Palestinian, [26:32] they looked at us through political lens. [26:35] Even before I write something, even [26:37] before I say something that opened my mouth, [26:41] they put us in a political frame, [26:45] in a political box, just the way I maybe look [26:48] or my language or my ID. [26:52] And I say, OK, I have here some tools [26:59] that I can use to just reach to the audience, [27:06] to just reach to Israeli side and to speak whatever I want. [27:10] I just can use these tools that I really have. [27:15] That's it. [27:17] Welcome. [27:20] ALMOG BEHAR: Thank you. [27:22] So for me, the question of language [27:27] was there at home before the street, [27:32] meaning that in my family, my mom was born in Baghdad [27:40] and came when she was five years old. [27:45] And I heard the Arabic of my grandparents speaking [27:49] with her and the aunts. [27:54] My mother would answer her grandpa, her parents in Hebrew, [28:00] as she was born in the name Samira. [28:06] Today she is Mirabella. [28:08] So names change identity. [28:11] When she was 10 years old at school, [28:15] the educator came to the house and asked her parents [28:20] to stop speaking with her in Arabic. [28:23] That was the policy in the '50s. [28:26] In a way like changing the languages of the people [28:31] through the children, through schools. [28:34] Her parents, of course, didn't stop [28:36] speaking with her in Arabic. [28:38] They didn't have another language. [28:40] But from that day, she stopped answering them in Arabic. [28:44] She became passive in Arabic. [28:46] She heard it, but answered in Hebrew. [28:50] So Arabic was one language that I heard at home, [28:55] and there were three other languages. [29:01] My father's father family came from Istanbul [29:07] and Judeo-Spanish Ladino was his language. [29:12] And my grandmother, my father's mother, [29:15] was born in Einbeck in Germany and spoke German. [29:21] And my grandparents fled at 39 to Denmark, to Copenhagen. [29:27] So my father spoke with his parents, Danish and German. [29:34] And what was clear for me was that those are languages [29:39] of home, but that it's preferred not [29:43] to hear them on the street or not to speak in them. [29:48] And anyways, it was very clear, like my parents expected [29:54] us to learn Hebrew and English, not any of the other languages [30:00] at home. [30:01] And in that sense, as a child, everything you meet is normal. [30:07] So you think that grandparents talk in different accents [30:12] than their grandchildren. [30:14] And, maybe my grandchildren will speak Albanian and I wouldn't [30:18] know their language. [30:21] There was a moment a bit later, when [30:24] I was 12 or 13, that I did tell my parents it's a waste. [30:31] Like, maybe I should learn one of the languages. [30:35] And they took the time. [30:38] They didn't answer me immediately. [30:41] Yeah, it's a great idea. [30:43] They thought for a week and then they said, you can study Danish. [30:51] And it was clear to me, the family spoke 1,000 years Arabic, [30:56] 500 years Judeo-Spanish, 200 years German, 10 years Danish. [31:04] it was clear to me that it's funny. [31:07] Now I regret it that I didn't study Danish at that stage, [31:11] but I didn't do it. [31:13] When I was 17, my grandmother from Baghdad, Louise, [31:19] was dementing and she forgot Hebrew, [31:24] and she went back to speaking only Arabic. [31:28] And that was the moment for me that I understood that it's not [31:33] natural, like my older cousins could speak with her in Iraqi [31:41] Arabic and I couldn't. [31:45] And that was the moment that I understood that someone [31:49] from outside the family, that the state decided [31:54] that we wouldn't be able to talk with her [31:57] in the last month of her life. [32:00] And that was when I decided to study Arabic, [32:05] but of course I was lazy, so it took me then, [32:08] like I decided at the age of 17, but I started when I was 23, [32:13] so it wasn't immediate, but it was clear to me to sum it up [32:23] in a sense that from that moment, [32:31] that as a writing person, like the poem I read, [32:39] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], My Arabic is Mute, [32:41] like only a few months after I wrote it, [32:45] I understood that it starts with the words my Arabic, [32:51] that it's the first time that I could relate to Arabic as mine, [32:56] or to myself, as belonging to Arabic. [33:00] And I understood that if I wouldn't study Arabic, [33:05] if I wouldn't read or write, I would [33:08] continue to knock on this door. [33:12] I will continue to write variations on this poem. [33:17] So I didn't want to continue writing variations. [33:22] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you so much. [33:24] And to continue on this thread of the private and the public, [33:29] I'm wondering if you can talk a bit [33:31] about the current literary scene in Israel. [33:35] Are there still spaces where Palestinians and Jews [33:38] can share works, be in community, [33:40] and attend protests together? [33:43] What do the landscapes for solidarity and activism [33:47] look like after October 7? [33:53] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: Again, I guess. [33:55] Yeah, of course. [33:56] So comfortable to drink right now. [34:00] OK, so it's my second year that I'm away, that I'm in London. [34:08] But I can say that it's hard. [34:12] It's a hard scene. [34:15] As a head of the publishing house, [34:18] Mi'tan, I think what I wanted to do and what we wanted to do is [34:24] to give space and voice from Palestinian from Gaza. [34:32] And we was in this publishing house, [34:34] like, truly in this focused on these voices. [34:39] So I think a year or two years ago, I think it's two years ago, [34:46] I was me and my friend Rahel, Dr. Rahel Korazim, [34:52] we just made we were thinking about [34:54] made a kind of event, a literature event like poetry [34:59] event like voices from Gaza. [35:02] And I started to just send some messages to poets from Gaza. [35:08] And you can imagine how much it was difficult. [35:12] And just to ask them if we can show their poems. [35:20] So some of them say yes, but some of them just say, [35:24] but please don't translate it to Hebrew. [35:25] We don't want Hebrew right now. [35:27] And we put it in Arabic and Hebrew. [35:30] And we make a very big event in Jaffa, in Teatrot, Jaffa. [35:36] And it was like the first time when I saw during the genocide, [35:42] like Israeli and Palestinian together, [35:45] like gathering through poetry. [35:48] It was very excited. [35:50] Then I said, OK, maybe I'm going to do something with it, [35:53] but I didn't have so much money to do. [35:56] After had a poet from Gaza, we spoke about a couple of things [36:02] and he told me that he wanted to publish a poetry book [36:10] and to translate his poems to Hebrew. [36:15] Firstly, of course, he didn't tell me. [36:16] I want to translate my points to Hebrew. [36:18] He say, I want to translate it and that it will be published [36:21] in your publishing house. [36:22] I say, yeah, of course. [36:24] And then I ask him, which language. [36:27] He told me, like your book. [36:29] bilingual. [36:29] I say, yeah, but which language? [36:32] He say Arabic and Hebrew. [36:34] I say, are you sure? [36:36] He say yes. [36:37] It was very strong thing and yes, we did it. [36:43] And through this we made a lot of events for him [36:48] and it was really very powerful events. [36:54] But accept this that we made in this publishing house. [37:02] The scene was a little bit like disappointing. [37:08] I expected that it would be more organizing events and more [37:13] publishing about against the genocide in Gaza. [37:17] It wasn't so much, but it was one event [37:20] that it was really important from my Israeli friends that [37:23] made it. [37:24] And it was in Tel Aviv and all the events. [37:28] They just invited a lot of poets, Israeli poets mainly, [37:34] and it was really exciting because they [37:38] were reading against all this crimes and all these actions. [37:45] And I felt that of course it could be. [37:49] So maybe we need a little bit to look for and to search. [37:53] But it's definitely can be. [37:57] So this is my own experience with the literature scene [38:02] in Israel in during this horrible days. [38:06] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you so much. [38:11] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: I would say, when I'm optimistic, [38:16] I think that poetry can change. [38:21] And I think that the connection between Hebrew and Arabic [38:27] is the potential for changing. [38:35] When I'm pessimistic, I know that poetry changed me. [38:42] But it doesn't matter. [38:44] It doesn't mean that it can change the world [38:50] and the connection between Hebrew and Arabic [38:54] changed me and is transformative to many people. [39:00] But maybe not as optimistically. [39:09] I would say in a different way. [39:15] For Jews from the Arab world, there [39:22] was a lot of pressure to forget Arabic, [39:27] to erase Arabic in that sense. [39:32] If 1 million Jews spoke Arabic before '48, [39:38] it became dramatically less 20, 25 years later. [39:48] So when I'm thinking about the Jewish Arab culture, [39:56] the only way that was to return to Arabic [40:03] as a second and third generation to immigration [40:09] was through the Arabic of the Palestinians. [40:14] For us, the only way to learn, to return, [40:26] to communicating to thinking about creation in Arabic [40:33] was through Palestinian literature, Palestinian Arabic, [40:40] in a sense. [40:40] I didn't return to speak in Baghdadi Judeo-Arabic, [40:46] but speaking Palestinian Arabic. [40:52] So in that sense, it is something [40:59] that was very important to me and to many others. [41:05] And there is still potential with it. [41:10] Because I'm not everyday optimistic, [41:18] it's harder than that. [41:22] I think that for me, like 20 years ago, [41:29] I could say that if only the knowledge will [41:35] solve our problems. [41:38] I think that many of us across the world [41:41] see that the problem is not only knowledge. [41:46] It's not only that you open yourself and open others [41:52] to another perspective, and then the situation is resolved. [41:58] It's in a much deeper place in us [42:05] as humans or as societies, which is hard to solve. [42:12] So I didn't leave poetry because of all of that. [42:19] But if you would if I had answered [42:23] this question 10 years ago, I would end optimistically. [42:27] Like in 50 years, Hebrew and Arabic will merge and people-- [42:34] now, I don't know how to end my answer. [42:39] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you so much [42:41] for those very thoughtful words and reflections. [42:44] I wanted to give you an opportunity [42:48] to answer a couple questions about the poems you shared, [42:52] and then I'll give you the chance [42:54] to share a couple more poems, and then [42:57] we'll open up to the audience for questions. [43:00] So, Ayat, in your poem, A Rock in the Feminine Form, [43:04] you specify in your footnote that [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], [43:07] the word for rock or stone in Hebrew, [43:10] is masculine and the Arabic is feminine. [43:13] I'd love for you to share more about this poem [43:16] and the diverse ways in which you're [43:17] thinking about gender here. [43:20] And Almog, I'll ask you a question as well. [43:23] In your poem, Amal is Hope, you play with language quite a bit. [43:27] Can you speak to how you decided to construct the poem [43:30] with both Hebrew and Arabic? [43:32] And also, what are the great many longings [43:35] that you describe in the work? [43:42] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: OK, so I think before that, [43:46] I need to say why I didn't have another option except [43:51] like to write in Hebrew. [43:53] So my mom, she's second generation of Nakba, [43:58] so she had a very hard time. [44:03] She couldn't study. [44:06] She's illiterate. [44:07] And when she became a mom, she say, [44:12] I want that my children will have the best education. [44:16] But you know why? [44:17] Because she wanted us to know to read. [44:20] And what she wanted us to read? [44:23] She wanted us to read the letters that the state sometimes [44:27] may send. [44:29] That means she never imagined about university. [44:32] She never imagined about poetry, literature or anything. [44:37] She just imagined about something [44:38] that is kind of terrifying and surviving. [44:43] So she was looking for a good school for us in Jaffa. [44:48] And at that time, that school was not so good [44:52] because there wasn't like, good-funded [44:54] and there were very few resources. [44:58] So she sent us to a French school. [45:02] And French school, of course, it's French. [45:07] It's a private school. [45:08] My dad had to work an extra hours. [45:11] And the Hebrew that they teach in this school, [45:15] they teach Hebrew for Jewish as first language, [45:18] as not in the Arab school, as Hebrew for Arabs, they call it, [45:24] or second language. [45:26] So in this school, I lost a little bit more [45:30] than a little bit my Arabic. [45:32] Maybe those who are Arabs and know Arabs [45:36] could a little bit see how I read a little bit the Arabic. [45:43] So sometimes I have mistakes and it wasn't my fault [45:47] and it wasn't my mom fault. Like mistake. [45:53] Fault it's in French, I think. [45:56] So it just kind my mom, she forced to do this [46:03] as an act of surviving. [46:09] So that is it. [46:11] So when I started to write in Hebrew [46:14] and realize these issues about me, [46:18] Palestinian and Arab natives, that speaks in Arabic [46:23] but write in Hebrew, I wanted to put my ID also in the poetry, [46:29] and not only by using the Arabic words. [46:33] For example, I use Jaffa sometimes [46:36] in my poems as an expression of Jaffa, the Palestinian city that [46:42] were before the Nakba. [46:45] And sometimes I use, for example, other words in Arabic [46:51] in a very kind of maybe situation [46:55] that it's like everyday thing, for example, [46:58] having lunch with my husband. [47:00] But I put this thing, for example, [47:02] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] or for example, salamu alaykum, [47:04] something like that. [47:05] But I wanted something more. [47:07] I wanted something that it is, or it [47:10] could put a zoom about the gender, my gender, and luckily [47:18] that Arabic and Hebrew are gendered language. [47:23] So I just thought that I can write the word rock, [47:29] that it in Arabic, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [47:31] it's in feminine form, and in Hebrew it's an masculine form. [47:36] So I just wrote it A Rock in the Feminine Form. [47:42] And that's what this poem just was born. [47:50] I hope that I answered. [47:51] OK, thank you. [47:56] ALMOG BEHAR: So the poem, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] Amal is [48:03] Hope, was written in a way like in Hebrew and in Arabic about [48:12] the same time. [48:15] And in a sense, like the poem I read, [48:20] My Arabic is Mute, that was translated [48:24] by Rima Abu Jaber in Hebrew. [48:28] It has Hebrew and Arabic in. [48:32] It when it was translated into Arabic, it's monolingual. [48:38] It's only Arabic because the Hebrew [48:40] was translated into Arabic and the Arabic stayed in Arabic. [48:46] And when I saw this, I understood [48:51] that it's not only that I want to write Hebrew differently. [48:57] I want to write Arabic differently. [49:01] So I decided to translate myself or to write [49:06] at the same time in Hebrew and in Arabic. [49:09] And I was listening to Umm Kulthum. [49:14] And here, the poem in Hebrew. [49:23] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [49:27] In Arabic, when I read it, by the way [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [49:33] So [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] the word in Hebrew for hope, [49:39] when my grandparents used it, they said [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], [49:45] Iraqi pronunciation of Hebrew. [49:48] Like in a sense, like the Arabic allows [49:51] me also to hear or to sound a different kind of Hebrew, [49:59] the Hebrew that I heard from them. [50:04] So that was, in a sense, like a stage for me [50:08] from translation, which is done outside of me, in a sense [50:16] and I accept it. [50:18] In a poem later on that I wrote it half in Hebrew and half [50:24] in Arabic. [50:25] I didn't bring it because it's untranslatable, but in a sense, [50:32] it was like for a second, maybe I [50:37] don't want to translate myself. [50:39] I want to write a poem in which each line will be half in Hebrew [50:46] and half in Arabic, and only Ayat will understand me. [50:50] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Wonderful. [50:52] Thank you both so much. [50:53] And I'll give you the opportunity [50:55] to share a couple more poems. [50:58] ALMOG BEHAR: OK, go ahead. [51:09] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: OK. [51:10] I realized that I don't have my [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. [51:14] My glasses. [51:16] Just a moment. [51:20] Sorry. [51:27] Thank you. [51:45] A long poem and I need to see it well, but before that. [51:53] It's a very difficult poem, and before [51:56] that it's like the newest poem that I have. [51:59] I wrote it maybe a year ago or something like that. [52:03] Before that, I want to read out names of my family members [52:11] that were killed in Gaza range in age from 3 until 28. [52:20] [MENTIONING NAMES, AGES] 28, 25, 5, 3, 26, 6, 4, 13, [52:49] 22 years old. [52:52] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [56:26] I'll try to do it in English. [56:29] Eyes on the road. [56:31] Eyes on the road [56:33] Hands on the wheel [56:34] Foot on the gas [56:36] Or the brakes [56:37] And the head and heart in Khan Yunis [56:39] And the blood that flows in Shuja''yya [56:43] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [56:45] We are human being, human being [56:48] We are human being [56:51] In the rearview mirror I see my face [56:55] With eyes, nose, cheeks [56:57] Everything points to [57:00] I swear I look like a human being [57:05] We look like this [57:06] We are human beings [57:09] But they are slaughtering us [57:10] Slaughtering us [57:11] Slaughtering [57:12] My voice became louder [57:15] I repeated this [57:16] My eyes filled with tears [57:18] And my anger rose higher and higher [57:21] I tried to catch my breath [57:23] My tears fell [57:24] And I wiped them with my hand [57:27] I must see [57:29] I am driving [57:31] I'm on the road [57:32] Where there are people [57:34] There are human beings [57:38] I took a breath [57:39] I tried with all my trust to dismiss [57:42] This feeling that had taken over me [57:44] I got to work [57:46] Filled with anger, [57:48] Bitter [57:48] Ashamed [57:49] Here they are [57:51] Here they are [57:52] I'd like to know who was in Gaza [57:56] Who pulled the trigger [57:58] The trigger that set off a bomb [58:00] That felled a seven story building [58:02] In which human beings lived [58:04] Rania, the granddaughter, [58:06] Haron, Hind, Julia and Rania, their grandmother, [58:09] With whom I said before the war [58:11] At my own grandmother's home [58:14] Perhaps it's he [58:16] Or that one [58:18] Or that one [58:20] Or this one's husband [58:22] Or that one's brother [58:23] Or he [58:24] Perhaps his nephew [58:27] They they they [58:28] I lost my mind for a moment [58:31] Went to the restroom to rinse my face [58:33] In running water [58:34] I washed my face [58:37] We are human beings [58:39] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [58:41] I entered the classroom to teach [58:43] Arabic [58:44] I taught Arabic to Jews, [58:46] To Israeli, Hebrew speakers [58:48] I finished. [58:49] The principal called an urgent meeting [58:51] Spoke about pedagogy [58:53] He finished [58:54] Went out [58:56] One person said [58:57] Let's give round of applause to Moshe-- [59:00] not his real name [59:02] His return from months of serve duty [59:05] Our hero [59:07] And everyone clapped [59:10] Me, my hands still on the wheel [59:13] My eyes on the road [59:14] And my feet on the gas [59:16] Or the brakes [59:17] My head remains in Gaza [59:19] My blood flows in Shuja''yya [59:21] Where my grandmother was born in Gaza [59:23] Where Haron Hind and little Rania were martyred [59:27] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [59:28] And ever since, my eyes remained wide open [59:37] And it burns, ya rabby [59:40] It burns [59:41] Shukran. [59:43] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [59:57] If I were a Jewish mother [60:00] And I had to send [60:01] My son to the army [60:04] I would fight [60:06] I would tie his tongue to his ears [60:08] I would glue my hands to his legs [60:11] I would hang my heart on his eyes [60:15] So he would not go. [60:19] Shukran. [60:19] Thank you. [60:21] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [60:29] ALMOG BEHAR: I changed the order. [60:38] Tisha B'Av. [60:39] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [63:09] It was translated into English by Vivian Eden. [63:14] Tisha B'Av is a day of fasting in memory [63:18] of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem [63:22] by Babylon, and then by the Romans. [63:26] Tisha B'Av 2025 [63:28] One [63:30] On prior eves of the 9th of Av [63:35] I would recite the book of lamentations [63:38] At one of the ruins of Jerusalem [63:42] And walking there. [63:43] I'd never greet [63:45] Anyone with shalom good day [63:48] Nor greet with shalom on my way back [63:52] But see all around me Jerusalem built up [63:56] All around surrounding my ruins [64:01] I would place a stone under my pillow at bedtime [64:06] So as not to doze off in a Jerusalem destroyed [64:12] And then awaken into seeing the city rebuilt [64:17] But rather to open my eyes entitled to grieve [64:22] And dreams of messiahs born and murdered [64:27] Would accompany me during my sleep [64:31] And at noontime on the day of the 9th of Av [64:36] I would look for seekers of peace in the streets [64:41] Who would meet me with shalom and greet [64:44] Them back with Shalom peace [64:47] Two [64:49] In this year, this Tisha B'Av today [64:54] The destruction isn't 2000 years old [64:59] The destruction is a hungry newborn babe [65:03] And a book is speaking in the present tense [65:09] But no spit remains on my tongue to grind its words [65:15] All the cities people sigh [65:18] They seek bread [65:20] And the bread is gravel in my mouth [65:24] As now not only is the soul in shreds [65:29] But the flesh is also in shreds [65:33] And how shall we lament the destruction [65:37] In the time of destruction [65:40] Three [65:42] And the dead won't die again [65:46] But how shall the living praise the Lord [65:50] The skies are the heavens [65:53] But is this land the Earth [65:57] The dead do not praise the Lord [66:01] Nor do any that go down into silence [66:06] And the destruction of Jerusalem [66:09] Is amid the ruin of Gaza [66:12] And the Destruction of Gaza [66:14] Is amid the ruin of Jerusalem [66:17] Amid the already dead [66:20] And the soon to be dead. [66:26] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [66:33] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [66:36] A Woman Awaits the Bombardment [66:41] To Manal Miqdad, a Gazan writer, translated from Hebrew [66:48] by Vivian Eden. [66:51] [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] [68:34] A Woman Awaits the Bombardment [68:39] Lying in bed at night in the long attempt to fall asleep [68:46] She thinks about the books she's taken into her library [68:51] The travel books and the nature books [68:54] should go to her best school friend [68:58] Who dreams about seeing streams and deserts next summer [69:03] The children's book still on her shelves [69:07] Should be taken to the orphanage the war will engender [69:13] The diaries she should ask for her father to burn [69:18] If the blast doesn't destroy them [69:21] And maybe also ask the neighbors [69:24] The books she bought in English and hasn't yet read [69:29] should go to her cousin [69:32] Who told her about his dream of living [69:36] The books she has lent to friends should remain with them [69:41] If they promise not to dog ear or write on their pages [69:47] And they'll choose to whom to bequeath them [69:51] in case of another bombardment [69:54] Here is her bed [69:57] No heroes surround it [69:59] Just fear in the nights [70:01] The books are mute, oblivious of to whom [70:06] they'll want to go after her [70:10] And she hopes to manage to fall into dreamless sleep this time [70:17] Undisturbed by the noise of the bombings [70:20] And disturbed by the noise of the games of the neighbor's [70:24] kids, [70:25] Whose tummies are wholly panic. [70:30] Thank you. [70:31] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [70:41] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you both so much [70:43] for those extremely powerful and moving verses. [70:46] I want to turn now to questions from the audience [70:50] for the last 15 minutes that we have. [70:53] There are a couple of questions about translation. [70:56] How much of your truth is lost in translation? [71:00] And can you speak a bit about the translation process? [71:16] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: For me, the translation, [71:17] it's another person enter and share [71:21] this space that I have me with the audience with the readers, [71:27] by writing. [71:29] So usually it's very intimate, me and the readers and there's [71:34] another person and it's difficult to me [71:37] a little bit because sometimes there [71:40] are meanings I'm not sure that it can last, totally lost, [71:44] but a little bit change. [71:46] So this is kind of thing that I feel that it always happen. [71:53] Some translators try really hard not to do this, [71:57] but sometimes it's just a language. [71:59] Sometimes it's just like the emotions of the poems. [72:01] So sometimes it happens. [72:05] But also like it's the opportunity that other people [72:09] that I cannot reach my own language that I write in to read [72:17] it and to think about it. [72:20] But usually, after I read a poem and from the moment [72:24] that I publish it, it's not so much mine anymore. [72:29] I can say it's mine, it's mine. [72:31] I can just hold it. [72:32] But everybody can took it and so also in the translation. [72:36] Thank you. [72:39] ALMOG BEHAR: Yes. [72:40] So I identify also with the fact that Gibran Khalil Gibran said, [72:48] our kids are not our kids or not our own. [72:52] Our poems are not our own after they go from us. [73:01] But also, in a sense, we talk many times [73:05] about what's lost in translation. [73:08] There is the quote of Salman Rushdie, [73:10] of what is gained in translation. [73:13] And I think that for me, the first experiences [73:17] of translation of working together [73:22] with the Palestinian translators in translating [73:26] into Hebrew, into Arabic. [73:28] And I did feel this thing that is gained through translation, [73:35] that is gained through the dialogue with them [73:40] like the options of how to translate [73:44] and what new meanings are gained by the poem [73:50] and I like sometimes those new meanings. [73:55] So I can tell that each of the times [73:58] that my poems were translated, I liked the translations. [74:04] It's like I see it, but in music. [74:09] Like someone writes and then someone else, [74:16] Malkin, writes the music for it or there is another version. [74:23] So the poem or song in that case, [74:28] gains another life in a sense. [74:31] It's not exactly the same. [74:35] Until now, most of the time I enjoyed the difference. [74:43] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you. [74:44] Another question about writing in Arabic. [74:48] You both mentioned trying to write in Arabic [74:50] but finding it difficult. Can you talk more [74:53] about the obstacles and also how are your poems received [74:58] by Arabic reading audiences? [75:07] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: He's not making my life easy. [75:18] Oh, my God, I forget the question. [75:20] Please, again? [75:21] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Yes. [75:22] How are your poems received by Arabic reading audiences [75:26] and also the difficulties of writing in Arabic. [75:28] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: So difficulty, I [75:30] think I spoke about it, but also it's [75:32] something like not only language the dialect [75:36] and the grammar and all of this, but also [75:38] something that I sometimes fight with myself with. [75:42] You know I fight with both languages, [75:44] but more with the Hebrew. [75:48] And for example, how they receive it. [75:52] I think firstly the Palestinian, for example, from Jaffa, [75:57] they didn't so much mind. [75:59] That mean they opened their arms and just [76:02] have me as I am with my Hebrew, with my everything. [76:05] Other Palestinians, they just what is she doing? [76:10] Why? [76:11] What she's trying to do, she's trying to do to be Israeli. [76:15] What she's trying to be what? [76:17] But then when they open the book, [76:19] they say, OK, wait a minute, there's something here. [76:23] She's not trying to boost something else that she is like. [76:27] So at first, it was a little bit of critics and something [76:31] very weird what you're doing. [76:33] But then they understand it. [76:36] So I'm glad that they open actually the book [76:40] and read the poems to reach and to understand. [76:46] ALMOG BEHAR: So I will answer maybe [76:49] not through poetry, but prose to continue, in a sense, [76:58] like the family story. [77:00] When I returned to Arabic, my parents I think, [77:05] would have felt better if I would go and write bilingually [77:10] with Albanian or another language. [77:15] So for them, it was, what is this obsession like. [77:18] It took us years to get rid of this Arabic. [77:21] Why to go back? [77:25] And the first moment that their perspective about that changed [77:31] was when a story of mine called Ana Min Al [77:35] Yahoud, it was born from the poem I read, [77:39] was published in Cairo in Arabic translation. [77:43] And at that moment, Cairo is still the capital of the world [77:51] and it was still something. [77:56] OK, so this obsession means something. [78:02] So that translation first for me was like the first translation [78:11] into Arabic outside Israel, because it's also [78:15] a question of translation. [78:19] Is a mode of going or opening to another audience, [78:27] but there are still borders. [78:29] So translation in a local newspaper or so on [78:35] is not really open to other audiences. [78:40] And in Cairo, Egypt, was stepping outside the local. [78:50] Later on when I worked with a translator [78:55] from Egypt, translated my novel and in the novel [79:01] there is a Judeo-Arabic, and there are parts in Hebrew [79:08] that are in rabbinical Hebrew. [79:11] So we had a long conversations about that. [79:16] Like, it was important for me to keep [79:20] the Judeo-Arabic inside the book in Arabic as well. [79:25] And he did like so it wouldn't look weird to the readers. [79:33] The letters are like on the side that it will be clear [79:38] that it's a different dialect that they are not [79:41] supposed to completely know. [79:44] And we spoke about the rabbinical sources [79:49] and we spoke about the kind of Arabic of Sufi sources [79:55] that can relate to them and be the equivalent [80:00] translation to them. [80:02] So again, it was in a sense, working anew, in a sense, [80:12] in the book, like editing some of the senses in it [80:17] in order for the translation to make sense [80:20] or even how do I want my book in Arabic to look like [80:26] or to sound like. [80:29] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Fascinating. [80:30] Thank you. [80:32] This is a question that's asking for advice. [80:35] What advice do you have for young poets who [80:38] want to write on controversial topics [80:41] and what advice do you have for writing to a wider audience? [80:47] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: Please. [80:52] ALMOG BEHAR: For advice. [80:55] I'm not sure which advice. [80:59] I will give one. [81:01] And so I'll do the first half. [81:08] I think that when we write-- [81:17] the main sense is not like I find it [81:22] at least like it's not that I have an issue [81:26] and then I write about the issue. [81:30] It's like writing is more connected for me [81:36] to the experiences I have that some of them relate to issues. [81:45] And then write as close as, in a sense, [81:53] I think I sometimes, in a sense, when it's hard for you [82:03] to speak with yourself, like to tell yourself the truth about. [82:09] I don't know if it's a shared experience or only mine. [82:12] But sometimes, there is a gap or there [82:17] are things that are hard for you to put into words. [82:23] And in a sense, those are many times [82:26] that I go to writing specifically more to poetry tree [82:32] than to prose. [82:34] And in that sense, I feel that if I [82:40] feel that I succeeded to tell myself [82:44] something new about something, I'm happy with that poem. [82:52] So it can be controversial or not controversial, [82:59] but if I feel that I succeeded in dialogue with myself [83:06] because most of the time, I don't succeed with dialogue [83:09] with myself, now you are about the wide audience. [83:13] You answer. [83:14] Let's see. [83:17] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: Really, I try to see, [83:19] just maybe when you're angry. [83:22] Write a lot. [83:23] Don't erase anything that you write. [83:26] This is a question like just to give an advice on this. [83:34] Try to create new words from other things, maybe something [83:42] that it's not usual. [83:45] And when you have words and poems that knock in your mind, [83:49] just write it down. [83:51] Because I remember that I have this period of time when [83:57] I was just on my way to work and I was driving in a motorbike. [84:02] And exactly in this minutes it was only maybe 15 minutes, [84:06] all the poems came here. [84:09] I had opened the door. [84:10] So please open the door to all the words and all the poems. [84:13] That's it. [84:14] Don't have anything else to say. [84:16] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you. [84:17] Before we end, I just wanted to turn back [84:20] to the very powerful poems that you just read and invite you [84:24] to share anything about these poems [84:28] and what it meant for you to read them today. [84:32] And there was a question about the strong language that [84:36] was used and perhaps you could say more about the poems. [84:44] AYAT ABOU SHMEISS: I think the poems, [84:47] like maybe the two like what I read, there were very direct. [84:56] I don't feel and I cannot try to explain them because it was [85:04] really, really direct. [85:05] But I can say that, for example, I [85:08] don't know if they refer to the poem Eyes on the Road. [85:12] So this poem, I wrote it when I was really, really, [85:16] really angry. [85:18] And I always hear from Israelis that they [85:23] say that they are scared from Arabs, [85:28] or they are scared from the Arab language, [85:30] or they are scared from us because there [85:33] are a lot of traumas, a lot of things. [85:35] And I can understand this. [85:37] I never argue with a person who is in front of me [85:41] and say he's scared because it's a feeling. [85:43] What you're doing with this is something else we can argue, [85:47] but I wanted just to put all my fears in a very direct way. [85:54] I scare, too, I scare when I see people with the uniforms. [85:59] The first day when I came to London, [86:02] I just was like, wow, there's no uniforms, really. [86:08] There's no guns. [86:10] These things, like with people, with uniform, always take me [86:18] to killing, always take me to blood. [86:20] And if it's my family, so of course. [86:23] So I wanted to put this. [86:24] So the Israelis that they always, for example, they [86:28] say the soldier is a brave, brave for you. [86:33] But for me, I have another very different opposite reality. [86:39] So I wanted to put it in a way not to educate a person, [86:44] just to put it. [86:46] We are human beings. [86:48] You are afraid from something. [86:49] I am afraid also. [86:51] It's a fear. [86:52] We just put it here and thus we can talk. [86:55] This way we can talk if we just put things not very nice cutey. [87:00] No, we have to put the things as they [87:03] are in front of the face of each other [87:07] and also to remember to look ourselves also. [87:11] That's it. [87:12] Thank you. [87:21] ALMOG BEHAR: I would say that first I [87:25] don't write poetry of the time. [87:30] And we don't-- now, I say we. [87:34] We don't write poetry about everything. [87:39] And, and sometimes it is hard to write poetry. [87:45] Sometimes, it's very easy. [87:48] But sometimes it's hard. [87:50] So I can tell about before the period [87:55] before I wrote the first poem I read, like in the first three [88:05] months after October 7, 2023, I didn't write poems. [88:12] And then I looked for all the verses in the Bible [88:20] with the word war in them and wrote them [88:25] and the first poem that I wrote at that period [88:32] was like with no word of my own, it [88:36] was mingling together all those verses with the word war. [88:44] And in that sense, it was a way for me [88:48] to return to writing without writing. [88:53] So sometimes, it's very hard to put yourself into words. [89:02] And this was like the process and then [89:06] I could write more directly. [89:09] STEPHANIE KRAVER: Thank you both so much. [89:10] And please join me in thanking our esteemed guests. [89:13] [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING] [89:24] JEFFREY VEIDLINGER: Thanks, everybody. [89:25] And thank you, Stephanie, as well [89:27] for leading such a great discussion. [89:29] And thank you both for coming. [89:31] And I just want to remind the students, again, those [89:33] in ALA.259 to go to your regular class [89:35] and those who want to participate [89:37] in the after discussion in the conference room East. [89:41] And our next event, I'll-- [89:44] whoops, I think there should be a slide here. [89:46] We'll on October 26-- [89:49] somewhere here. [89:51] I don't know which way the end is. [89:54] There we go. [89:54] On October 27, we will be having a Mary Sue [89:57] Coleman, the former president of the University [90:00] of Michigan, together with Brian Rosenberg, former President [90:02] of Macalester College, and Teresa Sullivan, [90:05] former President of University of Virginia. [90:07] Talking about should universities [90:09] strive to bridge division. [90:10] So hope to see you all again there. [90:11] And again, thank you to both of our visitors and Stephanie. [90:15] Thank you, all.