邓亚萍复盘国乒奥运对决 称顶峰胜负系于心理韧性而非技术差距

邓亚萍复盘国乒奥运对决：顶峰胜负系于心理韧性而非技术差距 国际乒联改换大球虽削弱了前三板的技术壁垒，但顶尖选手能否在高压僵局中克服“目的性颤抖”并专注当下动作，才是决定金牌归属的根本分野。 节目围绕竞技体育的心理高压对抗与乒乓球技战术的历史演变展开深度拆解。嘉宾们深入复盘了东京奥运会许昕/刘诗雯对决水谷隼/伊藤美诚等焦点战役，剖析了想赢怕输导致的“目的性颤抖”魔咒以及通过剥离杂念、聚焦过程来进入“心流”的破解之道。同时，对谈细致梳理了国际乒联从小球到大球、从21分到11分制改制后对前三板技术的削弱与台内拧拉力量相持的兴起，展现了顶尖赛场上技术与心力博弈的残酷与魅力。 国际乒联从38毫米小球改至40+毫米大球并推行11分制，显著削弱了旋转与速度，倒逼乒乓球技术从细腻的前三板终结转向以台内反手拧拉和多板强力量相持为主导的对抗模式。 (9:17) 顶峰对决的关键在于克服“目的性颤抖”：对胜负结果的过度执念会破坏精细肌肉控制，唯有将注意力全面拆解为“过程导向”、聚焦手头每一分的微小动作才能抵抗崩盘。 (13:27) 东京奥运混双决胜局中，水谷隼与伊藤美诚在毫无心理包袱下针对许昕侧身习惯果断变线，利用中国组合背负的巨大冲金心理枷锁瞬间打出7-0并锁定胜局。 (29:36) 进入“心流”（Flow）状态是顶尖运动员发挥极限潜能的核心标志，该状态会消除内在自我评判的声音，并带来感官上来球变慢的时间感知扭曲。 (32:36)

节目围绕顶尖竞技体育中的心理博弈与技战术演变展开，前奥运冠军邓亚萍等嘉宾深度解析了乒乓球从“小球时代”到“大球时代”的规则重塑，并探讨了高压对抗下选手如何克服“目的性颤抖”与心理惯性以实现对决。 器材与赛制改革重塑击球逻辑与技术门槛 (9:17) 国际乒联将传统的38毫米小球改为40+毫米大球，并将21分制改为11分制，直接导致球速与旋转双重骤降。过去的小球时代极其依赖细腻的前三板发球抢攻与极限旋转，往往两三板即可一锤定音，构成了中国队牢固的技术壁垒。大球不仅削弱了这种微观球感优势，还将胜负重心转向十多板甚至几十板的多板相持与纯力量对抗。 旋转大幅弱化直接催生了现代乒乓球的“台内反手直接拧拉”（霸王拧）。在小球时代，强烈的下旋让手腕力量无法直接在台内起板，接发球只能以摆短或搓长过渡；现代大球则允许选手在台内迎击来球直接造弧线展开上旋对抗。这虽然降低了精细手法的技术门槛，但对运动员的身体素质、肌肉力量以及相持厚实度提出了极高要求。 高压下的“目的性颤抖”与微观算球法门 (13:27) 顶尖赛场上对胜负结果的过度执念常会引发“目的性颤抖”：如同穿针时越用力专注手指越抖，当“太想赢”的杂念闪现，运动员微观肌肉记忆便会变形并出现失误。化解这种重压的唯一法则在于“过程导向”，即强行剥离对奖金或成败的计算，把全副注意力拆解并投射到当下的每一个具体球上，做到“胜不足喜，败不足忧”。 在具体的实战博弈中，邓亚萍提出顶级选手打球本质是在“算球”。发球轮次必须牢牢掌握主动权，力争打出2-0；接发球轮次则要具备北京俗话所谓“平地抠饼”的韧劲，在对手的主场优势中生生“抠”出至少一分，从而累积出3-1或4-0的心理优势。当战局进入双方都无计可施的窒息僵局时，技术差距已不复存在，胜负完全取决于谁能在“黎明前的黑暗”中更顽强地“顶住”。 东京混双决胜局复盘与大比分领先的心理陷阱 (23:13) 复盘东京奥运会混双决赛许昕、刘诗雯对阵水谷隼、伊藤美诚的较量，嘉宾指出开局2-0领先反而埋下了心理隐患。中国组合晋级之路较为顺遂，而日本组合在四分之一决赛经历过多记赛点逆转，早已具备向死而生的下克上心态。第三局起日本队全面转入超高风险的“搏杀”战术，伊藤以标志性拍击提速，打破了中国队的旋转压制。 在决胜第七局中，日本组合毫无退路地采取针对性战术，前两分直接算准许昕侧身正手攻的移动路线，分别以直线突击和斜线空档得分，打出7-0的压倒性开局。面对决胜局的殊死一击，保守与保领先往往致命；日本组合在零包袱状态下打出远超常规水准的表现，而中国组合背负不可输球的沉重社会期许，肢体僵硬导致战术应变滞后，最终丢掉金牌。 伊藤美诚的战术短板与竞技生态的文化差异 (37:56) 邓亚萍指出，伊藤美诚的球风兼具多变古怪的发球与前三板极速凶狠的搏杀，极易在前几板击溃对手节奏。然而，其底层技术的相持纵深不足，一旦对手像孙颖莎在单打半决赛那样迎难而上、顶住前三板并将回合拖入深层相持，中国选手在速度、旋转与力量上的综合厚度便会彻底终结悬念。孙颖莎在第二局3-9落后时的逆转，成为击溃伊藤心理防线的关键转折。 围绕伊藤美诚极具表演性质的发球准备动作，讨论指出中日体育文化存在务实与仪式感的显著差异：中国体系讲究动作精炼实用并杜绝多余花架子，而日本体育常承载武道式的仪式寄托。尽管发球动作夸张，但其物理本质始终脱离不了侧上旋、侧下旋或不转等有限规律。嘉宾呼吁对球场上的个性表达抱持包容心态，鲜明的对手特征不仅打破了国际乒坛长期的单调格局，也为赛事赋予了必要的戏剧张力与商业观赏价值。 在技术水平日益逼近的顶尖竞技时代，外在规则调整与微观心理控制成为了界定胜负的核心边界；如何在背负全社会极高期待的同时保持纯粹专注的竞技初心，依然是中国体育顶尖梯队面临的长久命题。

[0:00] 哎呦，那一下给我干崩了。到了第四局就不是我了，顶不住了。就叫崩盘了。 [4:31] 过去叫心手相应嘛，所以只要这个心平静的水面稍微一动荡，手上就差了。 [44:24] 邓亚萍: I just feel like shouting 'Sa' is so satisfying. [56:29] 邓亚萍: When you are strong, I am strong. When you go for it, I will also go for it.

[0:00] Not many people could handle it, [0:01] including the men and women at that [0:02] time. We had training partners, right? [0:04] Even they found it very tough to handle [0:06] . [0:06] Even the men couldn't handle it. [0:08] It was very hard to take, so I thought [0:11] it was fine; since he lost, let's just [0:13] play in the final. Oh, that day of the [0:16] match. I felt it was Seiya Kishikawa. [0:20] Kishikawa was loose, he really got into [0:23] the zone. [0:24] That day, I honestly couldn't finish [0:26] him off. It was incredible. The match [0:29] that day was very bizarre. My attacks [0:31] just wouldn't put him away, and he kept [0:34] returning everything from all over the [0:36] table, forcing me to run everywhere to [0:38] hit the ball. I eventually started [0:40] missing shots because I got anxious. [0:42] Once you can't put someone away, you [0:44] start to panic, and the more you panic [0:46] ... [0:46] Once you panic—we call it "getting [0:48] anxious"—your heart gets flustered. [0:50] When you strike the ball, you end up [0:52] hitting it too hard when you shouldn't. [0:53] Maybe you should have waited a split [0:55] second longer, but because you're [0:57] anxious, you rush your shot. [0:58] It’s an extremely subtle difference. [1:00] Exactly. That's why we sometimes say, " [1:03] Oh, watch out, he's getting anxious, [1:05] don't let it happen." You absolutely [1:07] have to keep yourself calm. [1:09] Yes, you have to hit the ball exactly [1:10] when you should and with the right [1:12] amount of force; you have to handle the [1:14] ball reasonably, very reasonably. The [1:15] moment you get anxious and don't handle [1:17] the ball properly, you're prone to [1:18] errors, what we call unforced errors. [1:20] Once you start making those unforced [1:22] errors, the match is impossible to win. [1:24] So, that match was a real roller [1:26] coaster. I remember in the third game, [1:29] I was trailing by a large margin—I'd [1:31] never been in that position—then I [1:34] fought back, took the lead, and reached [1:36] 20-17 or 18, but I couldn't close it [1:39] out and ended up losing. Oh, that [1:41] completely shattered me. By the fourth [1:44] game, I wasn't myself anymore; I [1:46] couldn't hold on. It was just a total [1:48] collapse, as they say. [1:50] Plus, having fought back from such a [1:52] large deficit and still failing to win [1:54] it, it was an incredibly frustrating [1:56] experience. For me, I rarely ever [1:58] failed to win crucial points. So, [2:00] having fought back and still not [2:02] closing it out, wow, it was really [2:04] painful. In the fourth game, I was [2:06] completely overwhelmed; the momentum [2:09] had shifted. [2:10] I was just suppressed; he had found his [2:12] rhythm, you know. I, on the other hand, [2:14] had no idea how to play anymore; I was [2:17] just really hesitant. At the start, I [2:19] held my own, but by the fourth set, [2:21] there was nothing left to play for. It [2:23] became completely one-sided, and I felt [2:25] I had basically lost. For me, looking [2:28] back at that match, I feel I gave it my [2:30] all because, during a game, none of us [2:31] ever wants to lose. [2:33] That's for sure, right? Absolutely. [2:36] Everyone wants to win, but since I lost [2:38] , I really—I mean, I truly used every [2:40] method I had, and all my back-up plans [2:43] were exhausted. [2:44] Right, there were really no moves left, [2:46] and in the end, I lost. Given the [2:48] intense public discussion back home at [2:49] the time, were you even able to sleep [2:51] at night? [2:51] Right, it's just that, at first, I [2:53] actually felt quite calm about it. I [2:55] thought, well, I lost—it's just one [2:58] match, right? Doesn't everyone lose [3:00] sometimes? The problem is, [3:01] but the problem was that you lost to [3:03] Japan. [3:03] Is that so? Well, that's a different [3:06] matter, isn't it? So, at first, I just [3:07] thought, hey, isn't it just losing a [3:09] single match? Regardless, I felt I had [3:11] done my best, but later I realized it [3:12] wasn't that simple. There was pressure. [3:14] It really wasn't that simple. So that [3:16] doesn't change the outcome of the match [3:18] ; that's something you only realize [3:19] after the fact. Right, right, but [3:20] during the match, we didn't know. [3:22] Exactly, we didn't know. During the [3:24] match, I was completely focused on the [3:26] process, and I was determined to do my [3:28] absolute best to play well. But if, in [3:29] the end, the opponent was just a notch [3:31] better, then we take the loss, come [3:32] back, and train harder. That is [3:34] definitely the athlete's mindset. But [3:36] after coming back, once I got to the [3:38] village and learned about the situation [3:40] back home, oh, that’s when I realized [3:42] : so, the loss was seen like that. [3:43] Right, what I’m concerned about is, [3:45] how did you get through that mental [3:47] pressure at the time? [3:48] I think, for an athlete, we actually [3:51] look at matches with a very calm [3:53] mindset. If I didn't play at my usual [3:55] level and lost, then I would indeed [3:58] have to look for many faults within [4:00] myself. But this match wasn't about me [4:02] failing to perform or not trying hard [4:04] enough. I did everything I was supposed [4:07] to do, and I exerted all the effort I [4:09] could. He simply performed better than [4:11] me that day, so I felt I could face it [4:14] calmly. [4:14] Wow, that's the mark of an elite [4:16] athlete. [4:17] It means keeping everything focused on [4:19] being professional. [4:20] Yes, yes, exactly, you're right— [4:22] professionalism. [4:23] Even though sports often carry many [4:24] additional layers of meaning, [4:25] they always remain centered on the game [4:27] itself. [4:27] Exactly. [4:28] We must always maintain that kind of [4:30] mindset. [4:31] What he just said reminded me of a film [4:32] I saw a long time ago, which was very [4:33] interesting and really illustrates this [4:35] point. [4:35] Mm-hmm. It was an American film that [4:38] studied the psychological quality of [4:40] sprinters. It featured an athlete who [4:42] ran exceptionally well and very fast [4:45] during training, but every time he went [4:47] to compete, he would slow down. Why was [4:50] that? They analyzed his movements. What [4:54] did they find? In major competitions, [4:56] because he was just a little bit [4:58] nervous, his stride shortened slightly. [5:01] He was supposed to finish the 100-meter [5:03] dash in 47 or 48 steps, but he ended up [5:05] taking one extra step, and that one [5:08] step was fatal. [5:09] Because in those 40-plus steps, every [5:10] single one was just a little bit short. [5:12] He stumbled. He stumbled. He was off by [5:15] that one step, so his speed...he [5:17] stumbled. [5:18] He couldn't get his stride right; he [5:20] tripped over his own feet. [5:23] Even the calculation had to be [5:25] questioned. [5:25] It was just that... [5:27] He just couldn't adjust his pace, so... [5:30] So, in this... [5:32] Yes, exactly, that's the Beijing way of [5:34] putting it. So for an athlete, that [5:36] subtle change he mentioned cannot be [5:38] altered by sheer willpower. Look, he [5:40] keeps using a term, a word we don't [5:42] usually say; it's both technique and [5:44] tactics. It's in... [5:47] Listening to him talk about [5:48] storytelling just now, it felt like a [5:51] battle between two sides. And you [5:55] remember so much; you've played so many [5:58] matches, it's impossible to play every [6:00] match... [6:02] This is an essential quality for an [6:05] excellent athlete. [6:06] How every critical point in every match [6:08] was won or lost—we keep it all in our [6:11] heads. How many years has that been? [6:13] Right, he hasn't finished yet. You say [6:15] you keep talking to him about tactics, [6:17] but he talks about neither tactics nor [6:19] technique. You can't win by relying [6:21] solely on technique, and you can't win [6:23] by relying solely on tactics and [6:25] playing mind games. You only win when [6:27] you possess superior technique while [6:29] simultaneously performing at your [6:31] tactical best. [6:32] I learned that from him. What I learned [6:35] from him today is this mindset: when in [6:38] a state of high focus, it seems there [6:40] is an old Chinese saying: "Use your [6:42] mind like a mirror." Your focus is [6:45] specifically on the act of playing [6:47] itself; your mind is like a mirror, but [6:50] if you feel even the slightest ripple [6:52] in your mindset, your hand will [6:54] immediately lose its touch. [6:55] This mind and hand connection. [6:58] We used to call it "the mind must be in [7:00] sync with the hand," so as soon as that [7:03] calm surface of the mind ripples, your [7:05] hand goes off. [7:06] That’s brilliant, truly brilliant! To [7:09] add to what you said, when we play [7:11] those crucial points—when it's a [7:13] make-or-break moment—do you know the [7:15] only thing the coach tells us to remind [7:18] us? [7:18] Just get the ball on the table. [7:22] Oh, it sounds so simple. [7:24] It’s too simple to say, but too [7:27] complex to execute. I don’t care what [7:29] method you use, just land the ball on [7:31] the table. [7:32] That’s exactly right. [7:34] Because back when I was young and [7:36] playing table tennis, I knew that all [7:37] those technical issues were just like [7:39] that. [7:39] No matter how difficult it is, you have [7:41] to hit it on the table. [7:42] Otherwise, you won't even reach the [7:44] critical point; you'd be out before [7:45] then. You can’t play these kinds of [7:47] matches; when they are in those [7:49] high-stakes moments, their hand [7:51] movements— [7:52] The two attempts are never the same. [7:54] Only they know it; even the cameras [7:56] can’t see it. The gap is so tiny, and [7:59] — [7:59] Even less visible is the mind. For [8:01] example, just like hitting that ball on [8:03] the table—take the recent talk about [8:05] Quan Hongchan breaking records with [8:06] multiple perfect scores. It’s the [8:08] same thing; you have to complete this [8:10] —— [8:11] action. How can she keep her mindset so [8:14] calm? But what is it that they actually [8:18] say? In her interview, the young girl [8:20] said the coach told her it’s just [8:22] like our daily training. Some people [8:24] say—though I don’t think they’re [8:26] necessarily right—that because [8:28] she’s so young, she doesn’t even [8:30] realize she should be nervous. Could [8:32] that be true? [8:33] Let’s talk about her advantages. [8:34] First, her young age is an advantage [8:36] here; it’s not a weakness. Once she [8:37] gets older—You mean, her mindset is [8:39] simple. [8:39] From her thoughts to the pressure she [8:41] faces, once she’s 18, it won’t be [8:42] the same. Second, she has no baggage. [8:45] Also, from the interviews I’ve seen, [8:46] her training and living environment are [8:48] very closed off. She said, "I’ve [8:50] never been to Disneyland," she hasn’t [8:51] been anywhere, so her life is quite [8:53] simple. [8:54] If all these complex factors were added [8:56] in, it would be terrifying, you know? [8:58] So she must have excellent coaches and [9:01] sports psychologists to guide her in [9:03] the future. [9:04] This time you’ve certainly brought [9:05] honor, but you still have a future [9:07] ahead—four years from now. Do you [9:09] agree with this analysis? [9:10] Well, I think it’s possible that our [9:13] young athlete Quan Hongchan truly has [9:15] exceptional mental fortitude, perhaps [9:17] she is just a natural talent, but at [9:20] the same time, as Ma says, it’s also [9:22] a case of "ignorance is bliss." She [9:24] also has that kind of advantage. [9:27] Over these many years, have the [9:28] technological developments and changes [9:30] been significant? For example, from [9:32] your generation to their generation now [9:34] . [9:34] Excluding the factor of physical [9:36] stamina, [9:37] Mm. Could you beat them? These athletes [9:41] . [9:41] It’s completely different. Back then [9:43] we used the small ball, now it’s [9:45] changed to the large ball; we played to [9:46] 21 points, they play to 11. So where is [9:48] the biggest difference? It’s that the [9:50] small ball had higher demands on us. [9:52] Because the small ball was faster and [9:54] had stronger spin. [9:55] The large ball is more pleasant to [9:57] watch; yes, the speed actually dropped, [10:00] and the spin dropped too. For us, the [10:02] technical requirements aren't as high [10:05] anymore. Oh, does that mean "each [10:07] generation is worse than the last"? [10:09] That’s not the point, that’s not [10:12] what I mean. But lowering the technical [10:16] requirements like this is actually [10:18] meant to allow more people to have the [10:20] ability to compete with us. I don’t [10:23] know if you’ve noticed, but if you [10:25] watch all these matches, including the [10:27] commentary, it’s completely different [10:29] from the past. In the past, the focus [10:30] was always on the first three shots, [10:32] does anyone still emphasize that now? [10:33] It’s not important; now the emphasis [10:35] is on rallies, whether you can hold [10:36] your own later on. It’s hard to talk [10:38] about "attacking the first eight balls" [10:39] anymore; it’s useless, unlike the [10:40] past. Back then, if you made one bad [10:42] return, they’d smash it and it would [10:43] be over. Now? You absolutely must not [10:46] think you can finish it with one smash; [10:47] if you think that way, you’re done [10:49] for. [10:49] Now, it’s all about an athlete’s [10:52] ability to rally, being in a passive [10:54] position and still being able to return [10:56] the ball during 10-plus shot rallies— [10:59] that was rarely seen in the past. [11:01] The key lies here, Ma is right, the key [11:04] is that the technical requirements have [11:06] been lowered. Because the Chinese team [11:08] is the strongest in that technical area [11:10] ; we are exceptionally good at the [11:11] technical game. [11:12] If they hadn't changed the rules, it [11:13] would be even more impossible to play [11:15] against us. Even more impossible, [11:16] because we Chinese are masters of [11:18] technique; our first three shots, our [11:20] serves, our control over the table—no [11:22] one can compete with us in these small, [11:25] technical details. So, when playing [11:27] with the small ball, if our serve is [11:29] good, we attack immediately. By [11:30] attacking, we can score directly, right [11:33] ? Then with two or three more shots, [11:35] I'm the one in control. Conversely, for [11:37] others, it's very difficult because [11:39] technique is hard to improve. Why is it [11:41] that even if Mima Ito practices hard [11:43] through the night, she still can't [11:45] catch up to our level of technique? Why [11:47] is that? [11:48] The technical gap is quite wide; many [11:50] aspects of technique truly require a [11:53] good coach to teach them. You really [11:55] need someone to teach you hand-in-hand [11:57] how to play. Your sense of touch, the [12:00] subtle feel for the ball—there are so [12:03] many nuances, including tactics and [12:05] your overall playstyle. As we were [12:08] saying, what Cai Ma said is correct, [12:10] which is what? Once the ball got bigger [12:13] and the spin decreased, it became [12:15] harder to serve with heavy spin. Since [12:17] it's hard to serve with heavy spin, [12:19] attacking becomes more difficult, which [12:21] led to the development of the direct [12:23] over-the-table flick. You might know [12:25] this technique, where you use your [12:26] backhand to flick the ball right over [12:28] the table. [12:29] Snap, just like that. [12:30] Right. You see, why didn't we have this [12:34] before? You couldn't lift the ball. You [12:37] didn't have the wrist strength to lift [12:40] it because the spin was too heavy. [12:42] Now the spin isn't as heavy, so you [12:45] have the strength to lift it. So you [12:47] see, what is it like now? There’s [12:50] more topspin than backspin now. [12:52] Back in our day, there was relatively [12:53] more backspin, so you couldn't lift it, [12:55] you had to control it. You could only [12:57] drop shot or push long. Now you don't [12:59] need to—you just flick it and the [13:01] rally starts immediately. [13:02] Oh, I see. [13:03] So what do our young players need now? [13:06] They need power. Now power is needed, [13:08] and the demands on your technique [13:10] aren't as high. It’s a relative [13:12] relationship; in our day, you had to [13:14] have technique, or you couldn't even [13:16] get the ball over the net. Would you [13:18] say you were the type of female athlete [13:20] with a lot of power? [13:21] I also had very good technique. [13:23] I wasn't lacking in anything. [13:25] You couldn't afford to be, yeah. [13:27] So I feel when I see you commenting on [13:29] their matches, I notice you often say [13:31] something when it reaches match point. [13:33] You often say, "Mima Ito wants to win [13:36] so badly right now." [13:38] And because of that, her form gets a [13:39] little distorted. [13:41] Mm-hmm. [13:41] It's about the mindset, yeah. Right, he [13:44] would say, once the score reaches a [13:45] certain point, he’d say, "Look, see? [13:47] At this moment, he’s starting to want [13:49] to win." Is wanting to win wrong? [13:51] Does wanting to win mean you’re going [13:53] to lose? [13:53] It just means your performance might [13:55] not be normal. " [13:55] Wanting to win" means that once you [13:57] have too many thoughts, you stop [13:58] handling the ball at your normal level, [14:00] or when you should be playing [14:01] aggressively—which you should be, [14:03] right? Once you start wanting to win, [14:05] your shots just aren't as decisive [14:07] anymore. This is what we often mean; [14:09] when he starts wanting to win, in [14:11] reality, his shots are no longer as [14:13] decisive as they were at the beginning. [14:15] If his shots aren't as decisive, for a [14:17] style like his, he could never beat the [14:19] Chinese players, because his playstyle [14:21] relies on going for the kill. If he [14:23] doesn't play aggressively, he simply [14:25] can't win against the Chinese. [14:26] Hey, you see, all paths lead to the [14:28] same truth. Today, Yaping brought this [14:31] book, and I think it perfectly [14:32] addresses this very thing. Look, it [14:34] talks about...his nickname is the "Big [14:37] Heart" world champion. I’m telling [14:39] you, that’s not good. Cardiac [14:41] hypertrophy isn't great, a "big heart." [14:43] Looking at this, I’ve found that we [14:45] are kindred spirits. I’ve talked [14:47] about this on the show several times [14:48] before. [14:49] It’s called "purpose tremor." Purpose [14:52] . [14:52] And what he says is very interesting, [14:54] so I say we... [14:54] You’ve really done your homework. [14:56] You’re... [14:57] It’s not just thrown together; it [14:58] really is. What is "purpose tremor"? [15:00] It’s like when you’re threading a [15:01] needle, a sewing needle, you know? [15:03] Mm. The more you try to aim for that [15:05] eye, the more you shake. That’s " [15:08] purpose tremor." If you didn't care at [15:10] all, you’d just thread it, and it [15:12] would go right in. [15:13] You explain this to us, and I’ve [15:15] noticed that in every industry as we [15:17] approach success, including hosting [15:19] shows, we experience this. It’s when [15:21] you feel like this show is going to be [15:23] a success. [15:23] That’s when a bit of a problem arises [15:25] . [15:26] You start to get "purpose tremor." [15:28] Exactly, "purpose tremor." Or, for [15:30] instance, in a speech, right? You’ve [15:33] given two-thirds of it. [15:35] When you feel like you’re doing a [15:37] great job, you really can’t have any [15:39] distractions; you must stay immersed in [15:41] your speech. But some people, [15:42] two-thirds of the way through, suddenly [15:44] think, "Oh, this is going to be a [15:46] successful speech." [15:47] Immediately. [15:48] Speak, Mr. Luo. [15:50] That’s it, you see, is it the same [15:52] for athletes? How do you avoid wanting [15:54] to win too much? Hmm, it’s actually [15:56] quite difficult. Honestly, this isn't [15:58] something you can just teach. If it [16:00] were that easy, it would be simple. He [16:02] has methods in this book, what do you [16:04] mean? [16:04] It’s actually quite difficult, [16:06] because everyone feels that I have a [16:08] very strong mental game. Maybe it’s [16:10] because people have felt reassured [16:11] watching me play since I was young. [16:13] That’s the feedback I get from most [16:15] people, whether they are good fans or [16:16] people I meet. They say that no matter [16:18] if I’m in a good position or a tough [16:20] one, they feel at ease and know I can [16:22] bounce back. But actually, that’s why [16:24] this book exists, to see if I can [16:25] summarize things, like the on-the-spot [16:27] experience I might have during a match. [16:30] I know how to control myself. Of course [16:32] , when we were playing back then, we [16:34] mainly relied on our coaches and [16:36] ourselves. We didn't have special [16:38] psychological counselors to [16:39] specifically tell us how to think. We [16:41] relied more on our own experience, [16:43] including coaches telling us how to [16:45] manage our nervous emotions. But at the [16:47] same time, I feel that from a [16:48] psychological perspective, some modern [16:50] psychological principles are completely [16:52] consistent with what we experienced. [16:53] What modern psychology tells you aligns [16:56] perfectly with what we practiced. [16:58] Because with both theory and practice, [17:00] it seems like people just don't know [17:02] how to eliminate these kinds of nervous [17:04] feelings. For example, when you go for [17:05] a job interview or take an exam, these [17:07] are all processes where you face a lot [17:09] of tension. Indeed, like the college [17:11] entrance exam, you might only face it [17:12] once or twice in your life, right? So, [17:14] how do you control yourself? How can I [17:16] make myself relatively less nervous? [17:18] It’s just like us athletes [17:20] participating in the Olympics. [17:22] I mean, who doesn't want to win at the [17:24] Olympics? As athletes, isn't the goal [17:26] we’ve trained for since we were young [17:28] to be an Olympic champion? But when [17:30] you’re actually there, if you keep [17:31] thinking about winning, you definitely [17:33] won't. You definitely won't, but how do [17:35] you let it go? We often say: [17:37] You only win when you stop trying to [17:38] win. [17:39] How could you possibly not want to win? [17:41] How could you possibly not want to win? [17:43] That is why it’s so difficult. [17:45] I know I’ve been working towards this [17:46] goal every single day, and now that [17:48] I’m finally here. But you still can't [17:50] think about it, you have to let it go. [17:52] This is a difficult thing to do. But [17:54] there are methods, there are definitely [17:56] methods. This method, really, is about [17:59] focusing on every part of the process. [18:02] For me, I focus on playing every ball [18:04] well, every game, and every match; I [18:07] don't worry about the outcome. If I win [18:10] today, so what? If I lose today, so [18:13] what? Thinking about the result is [18:15] useless because there will inevitably [18:17] be one. As time passes, in half an hour [18:20] or an hour, there will definitely be a [18:22] result. Don't worry about the prize [18:23] money for now. The more you think about [18:25] it, the worse it gets. Let me tell you, [18:28] I see how it starts, right? And really, [18:30] it’s about focusing on playing every [18:32] game well. Simply put, play every point [18:35] well. Within every point, there are [18:37] individual shots, and since there are [18:39] many rallies now, the transition [18:41] between offense and defense is very [18:43] fast. [18:43] If one shot lacks quality, you [18:45] immediately become passive; if you hit [18:46] one shot well, you immediately become [18:48] active, right? Ma is also very [18:50] knowledgeable; the transition between [18:51] offense and defense is incredibly fast. [18:53] If my serve isn't good and I can't hold [18:55] my two service points, I'll be down 0-2 [18:57] . If my return of serve is good, then [18:59] we call it "calculating." We don't call [19:01] it competing or just playing; we call [19:04] it calculating. First, in my service [19:06] turn, I must score because serving is [19:07] the most proactive part—I can dictate [19:09] the match according to my intentions. [19:11] Where I want to serve, my tactical [19:13] moves, where I hit, where I serve, and [19:15] where they wait for me—this is all [19:17] calculated. I call this "calculating [19:19] the game." So, in these two service [19:21] points, we must try our best to take [19:23] both. I take two points on my serve, [19:25] and then, it's your turn to serve, [19:27] right? When it's your turn to serve, [19:29] the logic is the same in the return [19:30] turn; the opponent wants to score too, [19:32] so what do you do? You have to "dig" [19:34] for points. That’s why during matches [19:35] , I often hear myself saying, "I have [19:37] to dig, I have to hold on." [19:38] Right, hang in there. [19:39] You have to really grind for it, point [19:42] by point. [19:42] Grind for every single point; we call [19:44] it "digging." You have to dig. [19:47] It means to steal; it's not about [19:49] breaking the opponent's serve. [19:51] No, no, that's not yours, because [19:52] you're in the return turn—you're in [19:54] the passive turn while they are in the [19:56] active turn—you just need to claw [19:57] those points back. [19:58] Right, so how do we calculate this? We [20:01] need to take at least one point from [20:03] them. Ah, at least scrape off one point [20:05] . In that case, wouldn't I be leading [20:07] 3-1? It's the same idea, right? If I [20:09] can take two points from you, I'd lead [20:10] 4-0. Is that what you mean? Alright, [20:12] now it’s my serve. I’ll make it 6-0 [20:15] . You know, that's how we play these [20:17] matches. No, how does an 11-point game [20:19] work? [20:20] It’s still early. [20:21] It’s early, and the points come one [20:23] by one like this. When you focus on [20:25] every process and every detail, you [20:27] actually forget your nervousness [20:29] because you are focused. You need to [20:31] play every point well; are you still [20:33] nervous? It doesn’t exist anymore. [20:36] You’ve forgotten everything, cleared [20:37] your mind of everything, and you’re [20:39] just focused on this very moment, this [20:40] moment, this moment. [20:41] It’s like taking the college entrance [20:43] exam. [20:43] You’re just doing this problem, it's [20:45] just this one problem. [20:46] Giving your all to focus on this one [20:48] problem after another. [20:49] You can’t think about anything else. [20:51] Yaping mentioned an interesting word, " [20:53] kou"(to scrape). In Beijing dialect, [20:55] there's an expression: "scraping a [20:56] pancake off flat ground." [20:58] The opponent is taking the point. What [21:00] does "scraping a pancake off flat [21:01] ground" mean? It means the pancake [21:03] isn't yours, but you scrape it out [21:04] anyway. She says "scraping" a point [21:06] also means, theoretically, the point [21:07] belongs to the opponent, but you have [21:09] to scrape it out. That’s the meaning. [21:11] So the word "kou" is special, but you [21:13] have to understand its cultural [21:15] implications. If a player isn't from [21:17] Beijing, they have to learn that first [21:19] before they can play, right? What is... [21:22] How to "kou," so they don't understand [21:25] this "kou" part. [21:26] It's simple in tennis, it’s called a [21:28] "break point." You serve... [21:30] You serve, I score, that’s a "break [21:33] point" scrape. It means you have to [21:36] make an extraordinary effort to get [21:38] that thing out. It means if peanuts [21:42] fall together, picking them out one by [21:44] one is not that easy. [21:45] Players from the south might think it [21:47] means "to slam." [21:48] I learned two words today. One is "sa," [21:51] right? And the other... [21:53] I’m telling you, this spirit of " [21:55] scraping" isn't about spending money. [21:56] This "scraping" spirit is truly about [21:59] the person. Have you noticed in matches [22:01] , sometimes it’s like a total [22:02] collapse? [22:03] Sometimes I can feel that the coach [22:04] just wants to pause the rhythm; [22:06] otherwise, how can I put it? This thing [22:08] is very subtle, yes. [22:09] If you lose your focus for a second and [22:11] stop "scraping," it goes 1-0, 2-0, 3-0. [22:13] Coach, you’re being very professional [22:16] . I think there’s a term we often use [22:19] — "hang in there" or "grit it out," [22:21] just "hold the line." [22:23] Mm. [22:24] So, when do you actually use that? [22:26] When you're at a disadvantage, right? [22:28] Like what the coach just mentioned— [22:30] those really tough, uncomfortable [22:32] moments. [22:33] At the most difficult times. [22:35] When things are at their toughest, you [22:36] have to hold on and grit it out. What [22:38] does that mean? It means you try your [22:40] best to score points from that position [22:42] . It’s all part of the process, but [22:45] when a match gets extremely intense and [22:47] neither side has a great solution, what [22:50] do you rely on then? [22:51] Holding on. [22:52] Oh, hanging in there. [22:54] Pushing through a bit longer. [22:55] Exactly, hanging in there. It’s like [22:58] the darkness before dawn—it’s very [23:00] tough, especially when the match is so [23:02] intense. When you don't have a reliable [23:04] way to score, and neither do they, [23:06] that’s when coaches and we ourselves [23:09] tell each other to hang in there, just [23:11] hold on. [23:12] So, like in the seventh game of the [23:14] mixed doubles, what should the coach [23:16] have said to them? [23:17] But before that, they should have been [23:19] told to go for it. [23:21] Go for it. [23:22] If you're talking about the seventh [23:24] game, then at that point, you have to [23:26] gamble—just go for it. [23:27] Gosh, I watched that match. [23:29] Exactly, just go for it. In high-level [23:32] competition, when you reach that state, [23:34] it’s like two people wrestling until [23:36] they're both completely exhausted. [23:38] You can’t take me down, and I can’t [23:40] take you down, so it’s just a matter [23:42] of who lasts until the very end. [23:44] But in that seventh game, Ito and her [23:46] partner played way above their level— [23:48] it caused an uproar among the fans. It [23:51] was just that one moment, but they [23:54] suddenly...for our side, it was... [23:56] Right. [23:58] Should they have been shouting [24:00] something like "Hold them off"? [24:03] Just shouting isn't enough; they need a [24:06] method, a specific way to win the point [24:08] . It didn't reflect their actual level [24:11] of ability, this... [24:12] It's like that. That’s why these [24:15] matches are so full of variables. [24:17] This uncertainty and variability [24:20] permeate the entire match. For instance [24:23] , let’s look back: in the first two [24:25] games of the mixed doubles, we played [24:28] incredibly well. We were very [24:30] well-prepared, Xu Xin and Liu Shiwen. [24:33] But then, the Japanese players [24:35] tightened up their game and really [24:37] pushed back. [24:38] Playing very tight, they didn't perform [24:40] at their expected level. We were 2-0 up [24:42] , it was clear-cut, nothing much to [24:44] play for, they dropped a couple of [24:46] points, didn't really get going. And we [24:48] were leading 2-0. Leading into the [24:50] third game. We felt that if they played [24:52] like that, they wouldn't be much of a [24:54] test. You know, they hadn't made us [24:56] nervous yet; earlier on, they were just [24:57] not resilient, what we call "not [24:59] standing up to the challenge." And [25:00] looking at their performance throughout [25:02] the tournament. Xu and Liu hadn't faced [25:04] any really tough opposition, or strong [25:07] opponents. They played against the pair [25:09] from Hong Kong, [25:10] but that was nothing. You have to [25:13] realize that the Japanese players, [25:15] Mizutani and Ito, had crawled their way [25:17] out of the jaws of death. [25:19] Right, they should have lost earlier [25:21] but managed to escape. When you've gone [25:23] through such setbacks, you've already [25:25] adapted your mindset to such [25:27] unfavorable situations. Hmm, that’s [25:29] quite profound, yes. [25:31] Right, they've gotten used to being the [25:33] underdogs. [25:34] Exactly. [25:35] When you're having it too easy, you [25:37] start thinking it's all fine, that [25:38] feeling starts to creep in. [25:40] So after hitting the third game, [25:42] we thought it was fine, everything was [25:44] great, they just couldn't handle the [25:46] pressure, right? But then, these [25:48] Japanese players realized something was [25:51] wrong, that it shouldn't be like this. [25:53] They aren't just pushovers, you know? [25:55] So, they turned it around and started [25:57] to go all out—that’s when they [25:59] started taking risks. And when they do, [26:01] because these two young Japanese [26:03] players have drive, their aggressive [26:06] shots—like Ito’s—are their [26:08] specialty—all-out attacks. [26:10] It’s all about power and speed. [26:12] That’s what makes it difficult for us [26:14] . [26:14] And it gets them excited. [26:16] If they don't use power and speed, they [26:18] can't compete with us. It’s something [26:20] they have to do; it’s the only way [26:22] they can win. Frankly, in the first two [26:24] games, they didn't have that kind of [26:25] play, so how could they win? [26:26] Mizutani’s shots were also very soft, [26:28] so neither of them was performing. By [26:30] the third game, they probably thought, [26:31] "I've come this far, if I don't go for [26:33] it now, when will I?" So, they just [26:35] went for it, right? Meanwhile, our side [26:37] thought there was no issue, that it was [26:39] fine. They eased up a little bit; I [26:40] observed their expressions, they were [26:42] just a bit too relaxed. Alright, let's [26:44] go, it's come to this, let's start over [26:46] . It's a do-or-die situation. [26:49] Exactly. [26:50] And then they fought back and won, [26:52] taking the third game to make it 2-1. [26:54] Hey, our side thinks, this is [26:55] impossible, let's just play normally, [26:57] wait, we lost a game, and now we're [26:59] starting to get rattled. Our mentality [27:01] begins to shift, and when we are [27:04] leading and someone fights back, it's [27:06] actually worse than just playing a [27:09] tight match where we go back and forth, [27:11] like you win one, 1-1, I win one, 2-2, [27:14] that's not a big deal. We really fear [27:16] having a big lead and then getting [27:18] caught up, not knowing how to handle [27:20] the balance between being aggressive [27:22] and staying steady. Then, how you [27:24] handle your mentality and how you [27:26] handle your technique, I actually don't [27:28] like those situations. If we are [27:30] playing a close match, we stay calm, [27:33] but at 2-2, it's very easy to be [27:35] overtaken, so at that moment, you need [27:37] to hit the brakes, but those two have [27:39] already caught fire. Their momentum is [27:41] up, and their confidence is growing. So [27:44] it goes to the third game, trailing 2-3 [27:46] , right? [27:47] But we won a game back. [27:48] Right. Trailing 2-3, let's be honest, [27:51] Xu Xin and Liu Shiwen are no pushovers. [27:53] Right, veteran athletes still have that [27:55] kind of ability. [27:56] Their mentality shifted as well. [27:58] I need to turn this around too, that's [28:00] right, I can't keep going like this. [28:01] I'm losing, about to lose, I'm going [28:03] for it, time to take a gamble, right? I [28:06] have to go for it. Hey, look at the [28:08] sixth game, look at how decisive their [28:10] shots are. The shots are decisive. Once [28:12] you're decisive, the other side starts [28:14] overthinking, thinking they can win, [28:16] they have a chance, then they soften up [28:18] , and boom, we're at 3-3, that's how it [28:20] happened, but in the seventh game, it [28:22] completely comes down to mentality. [28:24] Because everyone is back to square [28:26] one. [28:27] It's pulled back, it's pulled back, hmm [28:29] . [28:29] Once it's pulled back, it's about who [28:31] can be more daring, as we say, those [28:33] who dare can take the gamble. And who [28:34] plays it safe. [28:35] Whoever plays it safe, [28:37] whoever plays it safe, [28:38] plays it safe and they're done. [28:39] Whoever plays safe is done for. But, [28:41] there is also a possibility. What kind [28:43] of possibility could there be? If you [28:45] play a bit more steadily and let the [28:47] younger players go for risky shots, [28:49] they might miss, and you could pick up [28:51] some points; that's a possibility, and [28:53] we do use that kind of tactic against [28:55] them sometimes. But you also have to [28:57] observe, and athletes must observe [28:59] their opponents at all times. If these [29:01] two players come out aggressively, [29:03] determined to go all out, and they are [29:04] actually hitting their shots, you [29:06] absolutely cannot go soft; you have to [29:07] go for it with them. You must fight [29:09] back. Counter-attack. [29:11] You have to fight; you need to maintain [29:13] that momentum, because in the end, [29:15] it’s a trial of strength. [29:16] If you get suppressed, it becomes very [29:18] difficult to play. So by the seventh [29:22] set [29:22] those two felt they were going to go [29:25] all out, totally determined, regardless [29:28] of the outcome, with that "burn the [29:30] boats" mentality, while we were still [29:33] playing a bit too by-the-book. So right [29:36] from the start, they had studied us [29:38] very thoroughly. I remember it vividly; [29:41] Ito served, Ito served a hook shot. [29:47] Then, Liu Shiwen flicked a ball that [29:49] was pressed a bit low, giving it to [29:51] Mizutani’s backhand, and Mizutani [29:54] immediately punched a straight shot [29:56] down Xu Xin’s line. Without even [30:00] thinking, they knew Xu Xin’s forehand [30:03] is incredible, right? Single-sided. [30:06] Single-sided loop. [30:08] A single-sided loop relies on the [30:09] forehand, including stepping around to [30:11] hit it. So he definitely wants to use [30:13] his forehand to take the initiative, [30:14] that’s where his power comes from. So [30:16] they were just trying to get you to [30:18] step around, right? They had already [30:20] figured you out, and they just pushed [30:21] to your forehand. If you try to move, [30:23] they hit a straight shot. On that first [30:25] point, Xu Xin wanted to step around and [30:27] counter a straight shot, but it was [30:28] over. Just like that, that first point [30:30] was gone. The second point, Ito did the [30:33] same thing. Then Liu Shiwen flicked one [30:36] to the middle, right to Mizutani’s [30:38] middle; because there had already been [30:40] a straight shot, Xu Xin didn't dare to [30:42] move and had to cover the middle, right [30:45] ? Then they punched a cross-court shot, [30:47] a wide diagonal. And Xu Xin didn't even [30:50] touch it. [30:51] Both times it was the male player's [30:53] attack, and he didn't defend well. [30:55] He just couldn't return it. He didn't [30:58] react in time. Being down 0-2 right [31:01] away—it was really tough. These two [31:03] points were too fragile, looking back, [31:06] they were just too fragile. [31:07] Too fragile. [31:09] That move was sharp, right? They didn't [31:11] even touch the ball, didn't return it [31:13] at all, this is just... [31:15] It shouldn't be, it shouldn't be like [31:16] that, right. [31:17] Playing at this level, it shouldn't be [31:19] this standard. [31:19] But it's like if I went up there, I [31:21] wouldn't even be able to touch the ball [31:23] . [31:23] This kind of pressure from their [31:25] momentum is really annoying, yes, [31:26] it’s a pressure of momentum. [31:28] Mizutani was also performing way above [31:30] his level. Can we say that? [31:32] Anyway, he just went for broke. Don't [31:34] worry about my shot, I hit it, anyway [31:35] I’m just playing like this, I don't [31:37] care, it’s a bit like... [31:38] Oh, they were a bit stunned all of a [31:39] sudden. [31:40] Then this momentum, oh boy, those two [31:42] just surged, it was like they couldn't [31:44] be held back, starting to get [31:45] unstoppable. [31:46] Then they turned around and served, [31:48] straight to a 7-0 lead, falling behind, [31:50] putting yourself in their shoes. [31:52] Speaking of their mindset at the time, [31:54] I don't know much about the technique, [31:55] but if you put yourself in the shoes of [31:57] both athletes. [31:58] Right. [31:59] Those two Japanese players. [32:01] Right. [32:02] Even if they lose, it doesn't matter, [32:03] so it’s... [32:04] Already a great achievement, reaching [32:05] the seventh game against you. [32:06] That’s right, you’re telling it [32:07] like it is. [32:08] If they win, that's a bonus. [32:10] Right. [32:11] For them, it's a bonus. [32:13] But for Liu Wen and the others, as they [32:15] said afterward, this is unacceptable. [32:17] Right. Losing this medal for the entire [32:20] Chinese table tennis team, I believe [32:22] this is impossible, so by the seventh [32:24] game, I think they were mentally tense [32:26] because they couldn't back down. [32:28] Right. [32:29] Yes, but when you can't back down, [32:31] there are two results: one is a [32:32] desperate counterattack, and the other [32:34] is getting beaten because you were [32:35] nervous. [32:36] Yes. [32:37] See, what is this? [32:38] Psychology. We’ve found a, a, a, a [32:41] truth, I think it is that distracting [32:44] thoughts are the root of all trouble. [32:46] Some people, I would even go so far as [32:49] to say, that talent is actually the [32:51] ability to focus all your attention on [32:53] one single point. Hey, I want to ask [32:56] you about a state of mind, because [32:58] you’ve experienced those peak moments [33:00] , like you always talk about this [33:02] momentum, right. [33:04] Let's talk about this "energy" and [33:06] whether you hit the ball in the end, it [33:09] seems like once this person has this " [33:11] energy"... [33:12] It’s all correct, you know there is a [33:14] study in psychology now confirmed by [33:16] science, they use EEG scans, there is [33:19] also an English term called "flow". [33:21] We translate it as "xin liu"(mental [33:23] flow), but in English it's actually [33:25] called "flow". [33:26] I have experienced this state he refers [33:28] to, and I believe you have too. What [33:31] does it feel like when a person is in [33:33] this state? It feels like everything is [33:36] right on beat; the transition from one [33:39] movement to the next is seamless, as if [33:42] the world is revolving around you, with [33:44] everything obeying your command to do [33:47] as you please. Furthermore, it has [33:49] several characteristics, one of which, [33:52] for example, is that self-judgment [33:54] disappears. Self-judgment disappears [33:56] because you…Self-judgment disappears [33:58] because you…You see, a lot of the [33:59] time, when you are speaking, there is a [34:01] self-judgment in your mind, or when you [34:03] are playing ball, you have a sense of " [34:05] me," right? "What am I doing?" Another [34:08] feeling is the loss of time. Some [34:10] people feel that time has slowed down, [34:12] while others feel that time has…… [34:14] sped up. For instance, someone might [34:16] give a speech for several hours, doing [34:18] it brilliantly while in this state, and [34:19] after finishing, they might ask you, " [34:21] Was I really speaking for four hours?"" [34:23] It felt so short." In any case, you… [34:26] If you are selecting gymnasts, you have [34:28] to look at their parents 'height; if [34:30] they are too tall, it won't work. For [34:31] basketball or volleyball, you also have [34:33] to look at the parents to see how tall [34:34] you might eventually grow. These [34:36] objective conditions—indeed, when [34:38] starting out, you can only select based [34:39] on the objective, but no one can see [34:41] your inner self, and no one can see [34:43] your strength of character. Right? [34:45] So that is the hardest part. You can [34:47] only choose based on their external [34:49] physical conditions, but you might [34:51] think they are training well, yet once [34:53] they get to a competition, they freeze [34:55] up; some athletes are prone to [34:56] nervousness. And then there are those [34:58] athletes who thrive on the crowd; the [35:00] bigger the stage, the more they perform [35:01] , while other athletes… [35:02] Yes, I belong to that type. Yes, the [35:05] more people there are, the more excited [35:06] I get. I am not afraid; I am not afraid [35:09] to go compete. I enjoy competing, but [35:11] many girls are afraid of competing, so [35:13] that is different. [35:14] Good thing I didn't go this time; no [35:16] one was watching. [35:17] With no one watching, I might not have [35:18] been as excited; that’s how it is. [35:20] It is that kind of quality, I think. So [35:22] , this is very hard to see from a young [35:24] age; our grassroots, foundational [35:26] coaches find it very difficult to see [35:28] this kind of innate nature in a child. [35:30] This is nature; we call it a talent. [35:33] This child simply has good mental [35:34] toughness; they are good at playing [35:36] tough matches, they dare to step up, [35:38] and they dare to take on the challenge. [35:39] They might not be great at the sport, [35:42] but when things get tough, they’re [35:44] the ones who step up; some athletes [35:46] just have that drive. [35:47] That comes from training. Some of it [35:50] isn't trained, [35:51] They can't force it. If it’s not in [35:54] their heart, they just can’t fake it. [35:58] But I've noticed something when [36:00] watching sports broadcasts in the [36:02] Mainland— [36:03] The commentators [36:05] place a huge emphasis on mental [36:07] toughness, [36:08] whereas when you listen to English or [36:10] Cantonese commentary, they rarely [36:12] mention it. We're very familiar with [36:15] phrases like, "At this point,"" [36:17] it’s all about mental state," yeah. [36:20] Right? "Technique doesn't matter [36:22] anymore; what’s most important now is [36:25] staying calm." [36:25] It’s like they're giving [36:27] psychological counseling, and they even [36:28] try to coach them, right? "The athlete [36:30] should forget the previous score and [36:32] start fresh," and so on. I don't know [36:34] why this is. Is it because we value [36:36] that more? [36:37] I think it is the most important thing. [36:39] For top athletes, including coaches and [36:42] players, it really comes down to [36:44] mindset and mental toughness in the end [36:46] . Everyone is really quite similar, [36:48] especially within the same generation [36:50] of opponents; people of our generation [36:53] played each other every single day. [36:55] Like Sun Yingsha and Ito Mima right now [36:57] ; this time, and for the next ten years [36:59] , it’s going to be the two of them. [37:02] Oh, they're going at it. [37:03] Looking at them, they’re just [37:05] baby-faced kids, part of the post-2000s [37:07] generation, really. [37:08] It’s like our era; Qiao and I played [37:10] against each other for about eight to [37:12] ten years, just constantly trading the [37:13] world number one and two spots, just [37:15] like that. And our opponents from North [37:17] Korea, South Korea, and other places— [37:19] that whole generation, including Koyama [37:22] and Chire. Exactly, this generation— [37:23] what we call a generation—is this [37:25] specific group, and they are always [37:27] there, like Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei [37:29] in badminton. [37:30] Yeah, [37:30] The logic is the same; they are going [37:32] to be playing each other for a long [37:34] time. [37:34] When two people are evenly matched, it [37:36] comes down to mentality. Some say Sun [37:39] Yingsha is stronger than Ito Mima, but [37:42] by what standard are you saying one is [37:44] stronger than the other? [37:46] Strength usually refers to technique, [37:48] but can you really say where Ito’s [37:50] technique is worse than Sun’s? [37:52] Exactly. [37:54] For example, in what way? [37:56] For instance, I did some post-match [37:58] analyses after the Olympics. [38:00] And of course, everyone loved watching [38:03] them, but many people also left [38:04] comments asking, "Is your analysis too [38:07] detailed?""If it's this detailed, won't [38:10] the Japanese players learn from it and [38:13] steal our tactics?"" [38:15] Betraying national secrets"—that [38:18] answers your question. Generally [38:20] speaking... [38:22] What I said was fake. [38:24] Tell us something fake. It was meant to [38:27] trick the Japanese. [38:28] Let's tell them something fake. [38:30] They are saying, "I want to hear this." [38:32] Well, overall, Ito's game, her [38:34] variations, and especially her serve— [38:37] her serves have quite a lot of variety. [38:39] You might have noticed her movements [38:41] are also... [38:42] Very exaggerated. Yes, yes, exactly. [38:45] There are more variations, and they are [38:47] different from how we serve. It's, uh, [38:49] quite exaggerated; as you said, her [38:51] movements are large, and her speed is [38:53] quite fast. These are her [38:54] characteristics. She plays very [38:56] aggressively and hits quite hard. Uh, [38:58] her overall playing style is very [38:59] similar to mine. [39:00] Her overall style is very similar to [39:02] mine. [39:03] Oh, I'm embarrassed to say it, it feels [39:05] like I’m lowering your status by [39:07] saying that, but I think she has that [39:09] drive. [39:09] Yes, her overall strength isn't deep [39:12] enough. Oh, she relies on variations, [39:15] speed, and ferocity, attacking [39:17] aggressively in the first two or three [39:20] shots. Plus, she's quite intense. Once [39:23] you get a feel for it, after playing a [39:25] few points, you might feel [39:27] uncomfortable because you're caught up [39:29] in her momentum. But in reality, if you [39:31] get deeper into the match... [39:32] Once you open up the game, then... [39:34] Just hang in there a bit longer. If you [39:37] can withstand the first one or two [39:38] shots, adapt to her speed and her [39:40] aggressive style, and turn it into a [39:41] game of pure strength, we will [39:43] definitely win. Because our overall [39:45] style currently combines spin and speed [39:47] —it's an attacking style. We have [39:49] spin, speed, and power, so we have the [39:51] advantage when the rally goes on. So, [39:53] in terms of overall depth—we are [39:55] talking about strength here, real [39:57] strength in the later stages—we are [39:59] stronger than her. But, so in this [40:01] match, what was it that Sun Yingsha did [40:04] well? It's about being strong when [40:06] they're strong, and bold when they're [40:07] bold. In a clash of titans, I don't [40:09] give an inch—you just can't let them [40:12] pin you down. There was one game where [40:14] they were leading, maybe the second [40:16] game, 9 to 3, and then we brought it [40:17] back. After we came back, their [40:19] momentum just collapsed. [40:21] Exactly. [40:22] This was crucial, that game. [40:24] Actually, it was quite dangerous back [40:26] then because the Chinese public was [40:28] paying such close attention. [40:30] Right? If we had lost that match, the [40:32] pressure on Chen Meng later would have [40:34] been even greater, the whole thing. [40:36] Of course, the international community [40:38] must have been happy, right? It [40:39] promotes table tennis worldwide, good. [40:42] It makes a huge contribution, saying. [40:44] That's right. [40:46] And they did a lot of those Dunhuang " [40:49] flying apsaras" poses, really a lot. [40:52] For years, the ITTF's main goal has [40:55] been to defeat China. They want table [40:57] tennis to be a competitive sport again. [41:01] In their eyes, it wasn't competitive [41:03] anymore, since the Chinese team kept [41:05] playing against the "overseas corps," [41:07] right? The overseas corps would sweep [41:10] everyone else aside first, then the [41:13] elite left would face China, which is [41:15] how we got Mima Ito. [41:17] Objectively speaking, for the [41:18] development of table tennis, [41:20] it has been a contribution, but the [41:23] public's sentiment— [41:25] the high click rates, look at how many [41:28] people watched that semifinal of hers [41:30] later on, it really did contribute a [41:32] lot. [41:33] Speaking of which, I... [41:35] I can show you a short video. What [41:39] Yaping brought, look, she's a " [41:41] noblewoman" now. [41:43] I want to change the subject, let's [41:45] reminisce about those days, and then, [41:47] look at her talking about Mima Ito's [41:49] serve, I find it quite funny, let's [41:51] watch. [41:52] Oh, you guys came prepared. [41:54] Yes, yes, of course. Look. This. Zhang. [42:04] Nian. Deng. [42:13] Who is that on the other side? [42:15] Korea, South Korean. [42:18] How old were you then? [42:20] Uh, different, this is from '97, '97, [42:23] this is...wait, there's another one, [42:26] look at this one. [42:27] Now, look at our athletes' movements. I [42:30] won't even mention the other players; [42:32] the Japanese ones are especially [42:34] exaggerated, right? Taking forever to [42:37] get set, you don't need to mind that, [42:39] just focus on that one moment. [42:41] What are the characteristics of the [42:43] Chinese team's serves? The initial [42:45] movements are all very small. And then [42:48] the release is extremely fast. That's [42:51] how we're different from them. There [42:54] are definitely feints afterward; we [42:57] were puzzled by it, but the Chinese [42:59] team didn't make much of a mistake [43:01] earlier. Hey, I realized that if you [43:05] look at old Japanese martial arts films [43:07] , don't you notice there are so many [43:10] preparatory movements? [43:12] Is he doing this on purpose, or is it [43:15] genuinely necessary for his personal [43:17] technique? It's just showing off. [43:20] No, no, it's actually part of the [43:22] technique. I was watching Mima Ito, and [43:24] when she serves, she even turns her [43:26] head. She’s standing, then she turns [43:29] around—here is the table—she does [43:31] this, looks at the table first, as if [43:33] the table has nothing on it, then looks [43:36] at the ball. It feels like a sense of [43:38] ritual; it’s really a valid question. [43:41] Wu Yizhong hit on a point; it’s [43:43] actually a cultural thing. In Japanese [43:45] culture, they place great importance on [43:48] this kind of ritual. [43:49] We prioritize practicality. You see, [43:51] when they serve, it’s very practical, [43:53] so all those previous movements are [43:55] useless, completely useless. Right, [43:57] that’s it. It’s just their culture. [44:00] If one of our athletes tried doing that [44:02] , their coach would definitely walk up [44:04] and say, "Don't give me that useless [44:06] posturing." [44:07] Empty posturing, but for them, it's not [44:10] . They want that. Just look at Japanese [44:13] swordsmanship—take Miyamoto Musashi [44:15] for example—before they start, they [44:17] must go through a set of rituals. Oh, [44:19] right, exactly. And I noticed how she [44:22] spins around in all these different [44:24] ways. [44:24] With all those different spins, I’d [44:26] say we must have a broader attitude [44:28] toward this sport. It’s their style; [44:31] as long as you enjoy watching it, isn't [44:33] that enough? You can’t expect [44:35] everyone to serve in the exact same way [44:37] . It’s rare now, but in the past, [44:39] people would throw the ball so high [44:41] during high-toss serves, and many [44:43] people enjoyed watching that process, [44:45] right? I think we should allow for [44:47] variety among players. Ping pong has [44:49] developed to where it should be a " [44:51] hundred flowers blooming." The more [44:54] such athletes appear, but what I’m [44:56] actually saying now is...It’s because [44:58] I’ve seen on this platform, and [45:00] various others, that most people are [45:02] giving negative feedback about this. [45:04] Is that so? [45:06] Of course, the public may have a [45:07] negative view of him, but I feel your [45:09] personal negativity is your own [45:11] business; it shouldn't be stirred up [45:12] into a collective sentiment. Look at [45:14] the appearance of this Japanese athlete [45:16] this time; we were all very excited, [45:18] right? After having a competition, [45:21] especially a high-intensity one—if [45:23] every match just starts 9-0 or 11-0 and [45:25] everyone gets eliminated, there's [45:27] really no fun in watching that, right? [45:30] So, I think this is a good thing for [45:31] the overall improvement of the sport; [45:33] isn't it allowed to have a few unique [45:35] personalities? Everyone, every athlete [45:38] has their own little quirks. [45:40] And there's another question, what is [45:42] it? I think in a high-intensity sport [45:44] like this, it adds—yes, yes, yes— [45:46] it's so fun to watch. Imagine if [45:48] everyone on court had a super solemn [45:50] face, right? We need someone to liven [45:53] things up, even with some funny antics. [45:55] No, you're right, and I'm not even [45:57] talking about entertainment value. I [45:59] was genuinely amazed. If you say it's [46:02] Japanese culture, well, I learned [46:04] something from our own athletes, [46:06] because my weakness is mental toughness [46:09] . [46:09] I found that in this Olympic Games, I [46:11] feel our Chinese athletes also have a [46:13] way to boost their morale. Mm. [46:16] I love them. [46:17] Mm. [46:18] Look at the women's volleyball team; [46:20] they lost the previous matches, but [46:22] didn't they win the last two? [46:23] Their shouting was clearly louder than [46:25] the opponent's. [46:26] Mm. [46:27] Every time they won a point, those [46:29] girls—I wonder if the coach told them [46:32] to. Hey, what is it that you shout? [46:35] Back in your day, people said some [46:37] tried to spell out the sound "shu," but [46:40] I couldn't imitate it. What is it that [46:43] you shout? " [46:44] Sa!" Why shout "Sa"? " [46:47] Sa" is just—I just feel like shouting [46:50] "Sa" is so satisfying. What does "Sa" [46:53] mean? It's satisfying, "Sa" is [46:55] satisfying. [46:56] No, is this something you did [46:57] instinctively when you played as a kid? [46:59] Or did you just follow the team [47:00] tradition to shout like that? [47:02] Well, in the team, everyone shouts to [47:04] boost their own morale. There are all [47:06] kinds of shouts, but I think "Sa" is [47:08] just easier to say. [47:10] Badminton is different now. They said [47:12] that... [47:13] Teacher Xu is truly something. [47:16] They say that when Zhang Jike shouts " [47:18] You," it means he's getting ready. [47:22] And if he holds that cool pose for [47:25] three seconds, he’s won. [47:27] It’s that complicated. [47:30] That’s the shouting. [47:32] It’s to help get into the zone. [47:34] It’s definitely like that; they’re [47:36] constantly reminding themselves, even [47:38] talking to themselves sometimes. [47:39] You’ll notice athletes constantly [47:41] self-reminding. You [47:43] Look at tennis, that’s the clearest [47:45] example. It’s a very restrained sport [47:48] ; they can’t celebrate until the [47:50] final point. But during the match, the [47:52] expressions they make and the way they [47:55] encourage themselves after every point [47:57] ......show their state of mind. But let [48:00] me ask this quickly: now that we have [48:02] people role-playing as opponents for [48:04] training, do they have to do all those [48:06] fancy tricks too? [48:07] That’s not necessary. Why would you [48:09] care about that? Just watch their hand. [48:12] No matter how much they change, the [48:13] essence is the same—they still have [48:15] to serve the ball. Why bother with all [48:17] those tricks? Just focus on the ball. [48:20] Otherwise, there are only so many ways [48:22] the ball can spin, right? [48:23] Sidespin-topspin, sidespin-backspin, [48:26] then straight spin or no spin, and [48:29] heavy backspin. Take that reverse hook [48:31] serve, it spins like this, this [48:33] sidespin spins like that—it’s [48:36] always just these few types of spin. [48:38] The rest isn't important. It's just [48:41] that the reverse hook serve is served [48:43] this way, and the spin comes across [48:45] like this. You just need to know how to [48:47] return it and practice it. Then the [48:50] left sidespin comes across. [48:52] How to return that sidespin, how to [48:54] handle a flat or no-spin ball, how to [48:56] return a regular serve, how to handle [48:58] heavy backspin—it really just comes [49:00] down to these variations in service [49:02] spin. [49:02] The things we express are all based on [49:05] true stories, or at least 80 or 90 [49:07] percent true, with some parts polished [49:10] up by us. And we also want to use these [49:13] stories to express our views on the [49:16] world and our values. We wouldn't want [49:19] you to take them as fake. [49:21] If you treat them as fake, it wastes [49:24] our efforts. Because, because I [49:27] So, for performers, it’s like this: [49:29] if you criticize us, I’ll say the bit [49:32] wasn’t good, but if you say the bit [49:34] was good, then all the things I wanted [49:36] to express have been said by you. [49:38] Very flexible performance style. [49:41] Hey, that’s just his space, it’s [49:44] very interesting, with every move and [49:46] every stance. [49:47] Hey, this is very interesting. [49:50] I'm mostly just putting on an act. No, [49:52] no, I'm just telling you about this [49:54] kind of role-switching. I don't have [49:56] much academic knowledge, but one day I [49:58] happened to see a teacher talking about [50:01] "Teacher's Heartfelt Words." [50:02] Hmm. " [50:04] Teacher's Heartfelt Words" was about [50:05] how in Tokyo, we talk about people of [50:06] talent and grace. There was an old Mr. [50:08] Fan— [50:09] and a young Mr. Wang. Old Mr. Fan was [50:11] old but held a minor position. Young [50:14] Mr. Wang was young but held a high [50:16] position. They were going to visit [50:19] someone, and one said, "You, you are [50:21] senior, you should go first, walk ahead [50:24] , right?" The other said, "No, your [50:27] position is higher, so you should go." [50:29] The two of them, you see, were being [50:32] polite to each other, but in the end, [50:34] the old one finally walked ahead. As [50:38] soon as he started walking, Mr. Wang [50:40] immediately teased him, saying, "Look [50:42] at that, it's always the chaff that [50:44] goes first." The old man reacted very [50:48] quickly and said, "Look at panning for [50:51] gold, the sand is always what's left [50:54] behind." Just think about the [50:57] interaction between them at that time; [50:59] they observed etiquette, but weren't [51:01] bound by it, and they could banter [51:03] right away. I think this kind of life [51:06] attitude. [51:07] Is a bit like a stand-up comedian. [51:09] Yes, and furthermore. [51:10] They have to have equal intelligence [51:12] and be on good terms. [51:13] Yes, and in stand-up comedy, you're [51:15] either the old Mr. Fan or the young Mr. [51:18] Wang. You can't really stand on stage [51:20] and tell a story about Mr. Fan and Mr. [51:22] Wang that has nothing to do with [51:24] yourself. Actually, I think when it [51:26] comes to offending others, you feel [51:28] like everything is at a safe distance, [51:30] but some people are already sleeping in [51:32] your hallway or at your doorstep. You [51:34] just walk out your front door and step [51:36] on them. What do you do when you offend [51:39] someone like that? Do I correct this [51:40] distance next time and not say certain [51:42] things to avoid offending someone [51:44] easily again? Or do I not care? For me, [51:47] I don't care. If you lie at my door [51:49] next time, I'll still step on you. [51:50] Anyway, I'll go about my business [51:52] normally. My theory is the same; I [51:53] definitely won't go to your house to [51:55] step on you, right? That’s my bottom [51:57] line. But if you're lying at my [51:59] doorstep, I'll still step on you. I [52:00] keep my bottom line and boundaries [52:02] clear, right? You come to me, and I [52:04] handle it with the same set of values [52:06] next time; that’s all it takes. [52:07] Otherwise, if everyone shows up at my [52:09] doorstep, how can I leave the house? [52:10] How can I even live my life? [52:12] Right, if you try to make adjustments [52:13] for every single person, you’ll end [52:14] up with nothing. [52:15] Exactly. [52:16] There is a kind of talent that is [52:18] physical, like height and things like [52:20] that, yes, yes. But I feel like at the [52:22] high level of competition you reach, is [52:24] there also a kind of psychological [52:26] talent? [52:26] There definitely is. [52:28] Especially when the margin between [52:29] victory and defeat is razor-thin, right [52:31] ? [52:31] I feel like someone like us would [52:33] definitely crumble under that pressure. [52:35] You wouldn't even make it that far [52:36] before crumbling; you'd be nowhere near [52:38] that point, honestly. It's mental [52:40] toughness; we just call it mental [52:41] toughness for short. When scouting for [52:43] competitive sports at a young age, the [52:45] difficulty lies in selecting for mental [52:47] toughness. Because when you’re young, [52:49] as just mentioned, you’re looking at [52:51] a child objectively. When scouting, you [52:53] look at their arm and leg length. If [52:55] you're picking gymnasts, you have to [52:57] look at their parents 'height. If [52:59] they're too tall, that won't work, and [53:01] for basketball or volleyball, you have [53:03] to look at their mother’s height to [53:05] see how tall they'll actually grow. [53:06] These objective conditions are indeed [53:09] all you can look at initially, but no [53:11] one can see into your heart or gauge [53:13] your strength of character. Right. [53:16] So that’s the hardest part. You can [53:18] only choose based on their external [53:20] physical conditions. You might think [53:22] they're training well, but once they [53:24] reach a certain level and start [53:26] competing, they freeze. Some athletes [53:28] are "crowd players"—the bigger the [53:30] venue, the more motivated they get, [53:32] whereas others... [53:33] Right, I’m that type. The more people [53:36] there are, the more excited I get. [53:38] I’m not afraid to compete; I enjoy it [53:40] . But many girls are actually afraid of [53:42] competition. So that’s where they [53:44] differ. [53:45] It’s a good thing you didn't go this [53:46] time; there was no one watching. [53:48] With no one watching, I was actually [53:49] less excited; that’s how it is. Yes. [53:51] I think that kind of quality exists. [53:53] And so, this is very hard to see at a [53:55] young age. Our grassroots coaches, our [53:57] introductory coaches, find it very [53:59] difficult to spot this kind of inherent [54:01] nature in a child. This is innate; we [54:03] call it a gift. It’s that the child [54:05] inherently has good mental toughness; [54:07] they thrive under pressure and dare to [54:09] step up and push forward. They might [54:11] not be great at the game initially, but [54:13] sometimes when everyone is struggling [54:14] and someone says "I'll go," they have [54:16] that drive, that kind of athlete spirit [54:18] —no. [54:18] It is something that’s cultivated. [54:20] Some of it isn't cultivated, [54:23] they can't force it, they just can't— [54:25] if their heart isn't in it, they can't [54:28] just pretend. I've noticed that when [54:31] watching sports in mainland China, the [54:34] commentators place a huge emphasis on [54:37] mental toughness, [54:39] but when you listen to English or, for [54:41] example, Cantonese commentary, they [54:43] rarely talk about this. We are very [54:45] familiar with phrases like, at this [54:47] point, [54:48] it's a battle of mental strength, [54:50] right? Technique and such don't matter [54:53] anymore; the most important thing now [54:55] is to keep a level head. It’s like [54:57] psychological counseling, and they [54:58] actually guide them, right? "Athletes [55:00] should forget the previous scores, [55:02] start fresh from now on," etc. I don't [55:04] know why that is, maybe we just value [55:06] this aspect more. [55:07] I think it's the most important thing. [55:10] For top athletes, including coaches and [55:12] players, in the end, it really comes [55:14] down to mindset—it comes down to your [55:16] mental strength. It's just that, [55:17] honestly, there isn't much of a [55:19] difference between everyone. Especially [55:21] since your opponents are in the same [55:22] phase; for example, our generation, [55:24] this generation plays against each [55:25] other every single day. Like Sun [55:26] Yingsha and Ito Mima, these two, well, [55:28] this time around, the two of them will [55:30] have to play each other for the next [55:32] ten years. [55:32] Oh my, [55:34] that's set in stone. Looking at them, [55:36] they have baby faces, they're Gen Z, [55:38] it's really [55:39] It's just like in our era, like Qiao [55:41] and I, we played for nearly eight to [55:43] ten years. We were basically world [55:45] number one and two, just like that. And [55:48] our opponents from North Korea, South [55:50] Korea, and others, that generation... [55:53] Yes, this generation is them. We call [55:55] it a generation, this group, they are [55:57] always there, just like Lin Dan and Lee [55:59] Chong Wei in badminton. Mhm. [56:01] The principle is the same; they’ll be [56:03] playing each other for a long time. [56:04] When two people are equal in skill, it [56:06] comes down to mental toughness. Some [56:08] people say, for instance, this time [56:10] regarding Sun Yingsha, that Sun Yingsha [56:12] is actually stronger than Ito Mima. By [56:14] what standard do you say her skill is [56:16] stronger? [56:17] Skill refers to technique. [56:19] What is it? Then can you say in what [56:21] way Ito’s technique is inferior to [56:23] Sun Yingsha’s? Yes. For example, in [56:26] what way? [56:27] For instance, I did some post-match [56:29] analyses after the Olympics, yes. [56:31] And of course, everyone really enjoyed [56:34] watching them, but many people also [56:37] left comments saying, "Is your analysis [56:39] too detailed? If it's this detailed, [56:42] won't the Japanese learn from it and [56:44] steal our tactics?" [56:45] Betraying state secrets. [56:47] That's exactly what I was going to [56:49] address to answer your question. [56:51] Generally speaking, this— [56:53] What I mean is—Tell us something real [56:57] . [56:57] It was to trick the Japanese. [56:59] Tell us something fake. [57:01] After saying that, I want to emphasize [57:03] this. [57:03] Hmm, overall, Ito's game, her [57:05] variations and her serves—especially [57:08] her serves, she has quite a lot of [57:10] variety, and everyone might see her [57:12] motions are also— [57:13] Very exaggerated. Yes, yes, yes. There [57:17] are more variations, including how her [57:18] serves are different from ours; they [57:20] are quite exaggerated. Just as you said [57:22] , her motions are big, and her speed is [57:23] relatively fast. That is her [57:25] characteristic. She plays very [57:27] aggressively, hitting quite hard. Uh, [57:29] her overall playing style is very [57:30] similar to mine. [57:31] Her overall playing style is very [57:33] similar to mine. [57:33] Oh, I'm embarrassed to say it, saying [57:35] it like this might be a bit—a bit of [57:37] an insult to you, but—oh, I say this, [57:39] but she has that intensity. [57:40] Yes, her overall foundation isn't quite [57:43] solid enough. Oh, she relies on [57:45] variations, speed, and ferocity, [57:47] relying on all-out attacks in the first [57:49] two or three strokes, plus that, that [57:52] aggressiveness of hers, perhaps. Once [57:54] you get a feel for it after playing a [57:56] few points, you might feel [57:58] uncomfortable being overwhelmed by her [58:00] momentum, but in reality, if you play a [58:02] bit longer— [58:03] Once the rally opens up, it's not— [58:06] Just play a bit longer, withstand the [58:07] first one or two shots, then adapt to [58:09] her speed and her all-out style, and [58:11] when it comes to a contest of pure [58:13] strength, we definitely have the upper [58:14] hand. Because our overall style right [58:17] now is a combination of loop and [58:19] fast-attack, we have spin, speed, and [58:21] power, so we hold the advantage as the [58:23] rallies go on. So, in terms of overall [58:25] depth—we are talking about strength [58:27] —this is true strength; the real [58:28] strength is in the long rallies, and we [58:30] are stronger than her there. But, so, [58:31] for this competition, where exactly did [58:34] Sun Yingsha do well? It means when you [58:36] are strong, I am also strong. When you [58:38] go for it, I will also go for it. In a [58:40] battle between giants, you can't show [58:41] any weakness; you can't let them pin [58:43] you down. There was a game, I think it [58:45] was the second game, where they were [58:47] leading 9-3, but we caught up. Once we [58:49] caught up, their momentum weakened. [58:51] Right. [58:53] That [58:53] This is very important, this game. [58:55] Actually, it was quite dangerous at [58:57] that time because the Chinese public [58:59] was paying close attention. [59:00] Right? If this match had been lost, the [59:03] pressure afterward would have been even [59:05] greater, the whole situation. [59:07] Of course, the international community [59:08] must have been very happy, right? Yes, [59:10] it promotes table tennis globally. [59:13] Made a huge contribution, one could say [59:15] . [59:15] Exactly. [59:17] And she did a lot of those Dunhuang " [59:19] flying apsaras" movements; she really [59:22] has many. [59:22] The main goal of the ITTF for so many [59:25] years has been to defeat China. They [59:28] want to make table tennis a competitive [59:30] sport. From their perspective, it [59:32] wasn't competitive anymore. When the [59:34] Chinese team goes out, they are always [59:36] playing against the "overseas legion," [59:39] right? The overseas legion clears out [59:41] the rest of the world first, then the [59:43] remaining elites play against China, so [59:46] someone like Mima Ito emerged. [59:48] Objectively speaking, for the [59:49] development of table tennis, [59:51] it has made a contribution, but the [59:54] public's sentiment... [59:55] The click-through rate was so high. [59:58] Look at the number of people watching [60:00] her semifinal match in the singles [60:02] later; it really made a huge [60:04] contribution. [60:05] Speaking of which, I can show you a [60:07] short video. What Yaping brought, look, [60:11] she is basically a noblewoman now. I [60:14] want to at least evoke our memories [60:16] from back then, and then you can see [60:18] her talking about Mima Ito's serve. I [60:20] find it quite funny. Let's take a look. [60:23] Oh, you guys came prepared. [60:25] Yes, yes, yes, of course. Watch. This [60:32] is the year. [60:44] Who is on the other side? [60:46] South Korea. [60:47] South Korean. [60:49] How old was she then? [60:51] Uh, different, this is from '97, '97. [60:54] This is '29, right. And another one, [60:57] here is another one to watch. [60:58] Some of our current athletes' movements [61:01] . I won't name the specific athlete, [61:02] but it's the Japanese one, right? [61:04] Especially exaggerated, right? Just [61:07] doing all that stuff. You don't need to [61:09] pay attention to it, just focus on that [61:12] one moment. [61:12] What are the characteristics of the [61:14] Chinese team's serve? The initial [61:16] movements are very small. And then the [61:19] release is extremely fast. This is how [61:22] we are different from them. There are [61:26] some fakes after the shot, which we [61:28] find confusing, but the Chinese team [61:31] didn't make many mistakes earlier. [61:35] Actually, if you look at Japanese films [61:37] from the 50s, you'll notice they have a [61:40] lot of preparatory movements. [61:43] Is he doing this on purpose, or is it [61:46] genuinely necessary for his personal [61:48] technique? It’s just for show. [61:51] No, no, it's actually part of the [61:53] technique. I’ve seen Mima Ito do this [61:55] ; she even turns her head when serving, [61:58] like she's looking back. Here's the [62:00] table, she does this, then looks at the [62:02] table to make sure there's nothing [62:04] there, then looks at the ball. Why does [62:06] she actually do that? I think it’s [62:08] like a sense of ritual; that’s the [62:10] real question. Wu Yizhong hit the nail [62:13] on the head; it’s actually a cultural [62:15] thing. In Japanese culture, they place [62:17] a great emphasis on this sense of [62:19] ritual. We focus on practicality, so [62:22] when you see that, you think it's all [62:24] useless, completely useless. Exactly, [62:27] right? It’s just their culture. In [62:29] our culture, every coach would tell you [62:32] , if one of our athletes did that, [62:34] they'd definitely say, "Stop messing [62:36] around with those useless tricks." [62:38] Just empty showmanship, but over there, [62:41] it’s different; they value it. Take [62:43] Japanese kendo, for instance—before [62:46] they start, they must go through a [62:48] series of rituals, like Miyamoto [62:50] Musashi. [62:50] Right, and I noticed the different ways [62:53] she spins around, left, right, and [62:55] backwards, it’s all different. [62:58] I think we need to have a broader [63:00] attitude toward this sport; it’s [63:02] their style, as long as you enjoy [63:04] watching it, right? You can’t expect [63:06] everyone to serve in the exact same way [63:09] . You rarely see it now, but in the [63:11] past, players would toss the ball so [63:13] high, and many people loved watching [63:15] that. That’s why I think we should [63:18] allow athletes—our sport has [63:19] developed to a point where it should be [63:22] diverse, especially with such players [63:24] emerging. But what I am saying now is [63:28] ......is that on this platform, and [63:31] many others, I see that most people [63:33] have a negative opinion about it. [63:36] Really? [63:37] Of course, the public may have a [63:38] negative view of him, but I feel your [63:41] negativity is a personal matter; it [63:42] shouldn't be stirred into a collective [63:44] sentiment. Look, the appearance of this [63:47] Japanese athlete actually made us quite [63:49] excited, right? Everyone went through [63:51] this confrontation, and it was a [63:53] high-intensity one. If you start off [63:55] 9-0 and then quickly win 11-0 to [63:57] eliminate everyone, people will find it [63:59] a bit boring, right? So, I think this [64:01] is a good thing for raising the profile [64:03] of the sport of table tennis again. Is [64:05] it okay to allow some winking and [64:07] gesturing, right? Every athlete has [64:09] their own little quirks. [64:10] And there is another question, what is [64:13] it? I feel that in such high-intensity [64:15] sports, it actually enhances the [64:16] entertainment value. It's so much fun [64:19] to watch! If everyone on the court had [64:21] a grim expression, wouldn't it be [64:23] better to have someone act out or be a [64:25] bit quirky? [64:26] No, you're right. And I'm not just [64:28] talking about entertainment; I was [64:30] truly amazed watching it. If you say [64:33] that's Japanese culture, well, I [64:35] learned something from our own athletes [64:37] because my weakness is my mental state. [64:40] I discovered that in this Olympic Games [64:42] , I feel that our Chinese athletes also [64:44] have a way to boost their spirits. I [64:46] noticed they love to... [64:48] Mm-hmm. [64:49] Look at the women's volleyball team. [64:51] They lost the early matches, but didn't [64:53] they win the last two games? [64:54] Their shouting was clearly louder than [64:56] the opposing side's. Mm-hmm. [64:58] Whenever they win a point, those girls [65:01] ...I wonder if the coach told them to? [65:03] Why, what is it that you shout? Back in [65:07] your day, some people said others tried [65:09] to spell the sound as "shu," but I [65:11] don't think it sounds like that. What [65:13] is it that you shout? " [65:14] Sa!" Why do you shout "Sa"? " [65:17] Sa" is just...well, it feels right. "Sa [65:20] !" It’s satisfying. What does this " [65:23] Sa" mean? Satisfying, "Sa!" [65:26] Is this an instinct you had when [65:28] playing ball as a child? Or is it a [65:30] tradition of the team to shout like [65:32] that? [65:32] Well, everyone on the team shouts to [65:34] boost their own morale. There are all [65:37] kinds of shouts, but I feel "Sa" is [65:39] just easier to say. [65:40] Now badminton is different. They say [65:43] that... [65:44] Professor Xu is truly sharp. [65:47] They say that for Zhang Jike, when he [65:49] shouts "Yo," it means he is preparing. [65:53] And if he holds a long, three-second " [65:56] Shuai," that means he’s won. [65:58] So complicated, hey, this is the [66:01] shouting. [66:02] It's to get themselves into the zone. [66:05] It definitely is, they're constantly [66:07] reminding themselves, sometimes they [66:09] even talk to themselves; you’ll often [66:11] see athletes continuously [66:12] self-reminding. You [66:14] look at tennis, tennis is the clearest [66:16] example. These athletes, tennis is the [66:19] most restrained sport; they can't show [66:21] emotion until the very last point, but [66:23] during the match, the expressions they [66:25] make after every ball and how they [66:27] encourage themselves. It shows their [66:29] state of mind at the time. But I have a [66:32] question I need to ask, for those now [66:34] specifically acting as training [66:35] partners, do they also need to do all [66:37] that fancy stuff? [66:38] That's not necessary, why would you [66:40] care about that? You just need to watch [66:43] their hands. No matter how much they [66:45] change, the ball still has to be served [66:47] . Why worry about all those tricks? [66:49] Just keep your eyes on the ball. I mean [66:51] , there are only so many types of spin [66:53] on their serves, right? Side-top spin, [66:55] side-back spin, then straight spin and [66:58] no spin, then extreme spin and extreme [67:00] back spin. Like this hook serve, the [67:02] ball rotates this way, and this side [67:04] spin rotates that way. It's really just [67:07] those few spins and those few things; [67:09] the rest isn't important. What's left [67:12] is how this hook serve is delivered, [67:14] the spin coming at you, once you know [67:17] how to return it, you just practice it, [67:19] and then how the left side spin comes [67:22] over. [67:22] How to return the side spin, how to [67:24] return the flat spin or no-spin balls, [67:26] how to return the extreme spin, how to [67:29] return back spin; it's basically just [67:31] those serve spins and variations. Have [67:33] the technical developments changed much [67:35] over these years? For example, from [67:37] your generation to the later ones, and [67:39] to the current players? [67:40] Aside from the physical factors, [67:42] Hmm. [67:43] Could you beat them? These athletes are [67:46] completely different. We played with [67:48] the smaller ball back then, now it’s [67:50] the larger ball. We played to 21 points [67:52] , now they play to 11. So where is the [67:54] biggest difference? It's that the small [67:56] ball had higher demands for us. Because [67:58] the small ball was faster and had more [68:01] spin; the larger ball was introduced [68:03] for comfort, so the speed actually [68:05] dropped, and the spin dropped too. For [68:07] us, the technical requirements aren't [68:10] as high anymore. [68:11] Oh, so does that mean each generation [68:13] is worse than the last? No, I mean, [68:16] that's not what I meant. But, saying [68:19] that lowering the technical [68:21] requirements like this is actually [68:23] mainly to help more people have the [68:26] ability to compete with us. Also, I [68:29] don't know if you've noticed, look at [68:30] all these matches, including the [68:32] commentary, it's completely different [68:33] from the past; in the past, they [68:35] emphasized the first three strokes, but [68:37] does anyone emphasize that now? It's [68:38] not important. Now the emphasis is on [68:40] rallying, which is whether you can hold [68:42] your own later on. It's hard to talk [68:44] about serving and attacking now; it's [68:45] useless, unlike in the past. Back then, [68:47] if you returned a ball poorly, one [68:49] smash would end it, but now. You [68:50] absolutely must not think you can end [68:52] it with one smash; if you think that [68:54] way, you're done for. [68:55] Now, it's about an athlete's ability to [68:57] rally, meaning even when passive, you [68:59] can often see rallies of over a dozen [69:01] strokes where athletes can return the [69:03] ball under extreme pressure; that was [69:05] rare in the past. Yes. [69:07] Where is the key? Master Ma is right, [69:09] what is the key point here? It's that [69:11] the technical requirements have been [69:13] lowered. Because this technique is [69:14] where the Chinese team is strongest; we [69:16] are exceptionally good at the technical [69:17] aspect. [69:18] If they hadn't changed the rules, it [69:19] would be even more impossible to play. [69:20] Even harder to play, because we Chinese [69:22] are great at technique. Our first three [69:25] strokes, our serving, our control over [69:27] the table—these small things, these [69:29] small technical skills—no one can [69:31] compete with us. So, when playing with [69:33] the small ball, we served well, we [69:35] attacked, and we could finish you off [69:37] directly, right? Then after two or [69:39] three strokes, I would be in control. [69:42] Conversely, it's very difficult for [69:44] others, because technique is hard to [69:46] improve. Why is it that even if they [69:48] practice bitterly day and night, they [69:50] still can't catch up to our level of [69:52] technique? Why is that? [69:54] The technical gap is quite wide; many [69:56] of these technical things really [69:58] require a good coach to teach them. It [70:00] really takes hands-on guidance to tell [70:02] you how to play. Your feel for it is [70:04] made up of very subtle things; the feel [70:07] for the ball, these subtle sensations [70:09] are very. Numerous, including tactical [70:11] styles and patterns; as I was saying, [70:14] Master Ma was right just now, which is [70:16] what? Once the ball got bigger and the [70:19] spin decreased, it became hard to serve [70:21] with heavy spin, and without heavy spin [70:23] , the follow-up attacks became [70:25] difficult. It would create significant [70:27] difficulties, which is why the " [70:28] in-table banana flick" has now emerged. [70:30] You might be familiar with this [70:32] technique, where you use the backhand [70:33] to flick right over the table. [70:35] Just like a snap, [70:36] Right, you see, why couldn't we flick [70:39] those balls before? You just couldn't [70:41] lift them; without that kind of wrist [70:44] strength, you couldn't get it over, the [70:46] spin was just too heavy. [70:48] The spin today isn't as heavy, so you [70:51] have the power to lift it. So, you see [70:53] what it's like now? There are more [70:55] topspin balls than backspin ones, [70:57] Back in our day, we actually had [70:59] relatively more backspin balls.