窦文涛首次泪崩：早想退出圆桌派！全因这个人死撑到现在！现场听懂的人都哭了！ #圆桌派 #窦文涛 #坚持 #认知 #纪实 #热门

窦文涛现场泪崩谈坚持《圆桌派》：粗粝真实胜过语言快餐 在这场杭州线下对谈中，窦文涛携手许戈辉、许子东与马家辉，从李叔同的“人生三境界”切入，深入探讨了审美机制、财富流动对品味的影响以及AI与流量时代的算法妥协。面对现场观众关于容貌衰老、审美匮乏与阶层焦虑的提问，嘉宾们分享了从“被审视的花”转变为“主动看花人”的心境释然，以及将焦虑转化为精进动力的实践。窦文涛最终借“粗陶与精瓷”的比喻点明《圆桌派》的核心哲学：节目不追求表演性质的流利表达与“语言快餐”，而是致力于在笨拙、口吃与沉默的真性情中开掘真正的思想质感与洞见。 窦文涛在杭州线下对谈中坦言，《圆桌派》选拔嘉宾向来注重见识、视角与性情，而非脱口秀式的流利口才；质朴粗粝的真实表达远比流水线般的“语言快餐”更具智慧价值。 (46:45) 针对财富流转与大众品味的关系，对谈指出美是一种需要后天刻意习得的能力；突然暴富并试图用金钱直接替代审美劳动，往往是滋生文化尴尬的根源。 (17:50) 许子东与席瑞就审美高低之分展开辨析，指出算法与点击率正在迫使短视频及影视行业走向流水线式妥协，但严肃纯文学探索未知表达的独立追求依然不可替代。 (31:20) 对谈探讨了容貌衰老与品味焦虑的解法，指出随着人生阅历沉淀，个体会从被外部审视的“审美客体”（花）转变为主动品赏世界的“审美主体”（看花人），从而获得心理自足。 (39:31)

窦文涛与嘉宾在对谈中探讨了语言、艺术、财富与容貌的多维审美机制，指出真正的审美不依赖平滑无瑕的表演或对物的占有，而是源于主体向内的心性修养、对不完美的接纳以及突破自我设限的精神探索。 语言质感：反对流利霸权与粗陶美学 (0:00) 窦文涛结合自身经历反思播音专业对金属般纯正音色与即兴成文的刻板训练。他认为，若私人说话皆如写好的文章般严丝合缝反而令人感到虚假不适；过于精修的演说如同光滑无瑕的“精瓷”或考究的燕尾服，而带有停顿、结巴与寻词过程的口语则像表面粗粝的“粗陶”或做旧牛仔裤，蕴含着更本真的生活质感与鲜活神采。 在《圆桌派》的选人与主持实践中，窦文涛强调节目从不考核嘉宾的口才与台词流畅度，而是看重思想见解、独到视角与性情风骨。他坦言自己常在仅有一人观看的直播间里，专心聆听带有浓重苏北口音且言语结巴的教师讲课，并从中汲取极具分量的知识。他认为现代观众过度追求“语言快餐”，容易因浅薄的流利偏好而错失真知灼见，听者应主动提升自身的理解力和包容度，而非将沟通苛求为舞台表演。 超越占有：非功利性与李叔同三层境 (5:32) 结合丰子恺关于李叔同（弘一法师）出家缘由的“人生三层楼”说，对谈将人生境界划分为物质生活（满足温饱与财富累积）、艺术审美（投身戏剧音乐等精神创造）与宗教解脱（追求超越生死的终极超越）。李叔同早年作为富家子弟投身艺术，后期因其极致的完美主义转向佛教中戒律最严苛的律宗，坐椅前轻摇藤椅以防误伤小虫，展现了走向极致的精神专注与对终极解脱的向往。 对谈指出，审美之所以能成为安顿身心的避难所，在于许子东引述的康德式“无功利性”——纯粹的美与个人财富或银行账户毫无干系。欣赏山间明月或江上清风不需花费分文，而一旦将审美异化为据为己有的占有欲，便会受制于金钱限制并滋生情感折磨。此外，心理学实验表明，将普通人身上最平凡无奇的五官融合成的“平均脸”常被大众判定为极美，这种和谐消除了威胁感与嫉妒，为观者提供了接纳自我的心理认同。 阶梯与代价：流量妥协、孤独与见众生 (17:50) 财富流动与审美能力的养成并不必然同步。窦文涛分析，暴富者往往试图用金钱替代审美的学习与劳动，以出资外包室内设计或全身堆砌奢侈品牌作为审美捷径，反而暴露出文化的滞后与尴尬。而在算法与短视频生态中，许子东持相对悲观立场，指出大众艺术以普及和娱乐为核心，在点击率和资本驱使下，使得网红妆发乃至好莱坞大片普遍走向流水线式的妥协；相反，严肃纯文学的核心在于开拓前所未有的表达，其高度与博物馆中历经数千年筛选的经典一样，注定只被极少数人参透。 窦文涛则认为，审美的进阶由永不自满的探索驱动，人应当打破所谓的“行业天花板”，保持孩童般的好奇心。然而技艺与境界越往高处走，同道之人便越少，这是登顶的孤独宿命。现场嘉宾进一步指出，审美的顶级境界是曹雪芹创作《红楼梦》般的“见众生”，既具备自身的审美品位，又能体察并包容千万普通人的审美取向。 容貌解绑：从被审视客体走向审美主体 (35:48) 针对现场关于容貌衰老与品味焦虑的提问，许戈辉分享了从早年在凤凰卫视恐惧被斥为“花瓶”，到如今坦然希望观众欣赏花瓶中盛开之花的经验。她认为真正的衰老迹象恰是心理上不再觉得自己老，并因医美无法一劳永逸而放弃技术干预。对谈提炼出一种心理跨越：女性年轻时往往作为“被审视的花”（审美客体）承受外部严苛打量，成熟后则转变为自主的“看花人”（审美主体），摆脱外部评价压力。 马家辉将审美焦虑视为自我提升的动力，通过听取造型建议与增加阅读来克服本领恐慌。窦文涛援引顾恺之《女史箴图》中“人咸知饰其容，而莫知饰其性”的名句，强调审美修养最终指向内在道德与精神气韵，懂得欣赏言语迟缓、内敛羞涩乃至沉默之美，才是消解外貌与技巧焦虑的根本解法。 整场对谈揭示了大众流量妥协与小众极致追求、外在修饰与内在性情之间的张力。尽管嘉宾对于算法时代审美能否抵御资本平庸化持有乐观与悲观的不同预判，但一致认同审美是一种需要长期习得的认知能力，唯有克服占有欲与速成心态，方能在向内自省与包容多样中获得精神自由。

[0:00] Dou Wentao: If everything a person says could be written down as an essay, that would be horrifying. We don't speak like that in private; this isn't real-life conversation. We should speak as if we’re talking, not writing essays—are you an essay? [2:55] Dou Wentao's mother: If Gehui won't do, Luyu will. [2:55] Ma Jiahui: Isn't there a saying that choices are for children? [5:32] Li Shutong: I told you eight o'clock, you're five minutes late, I'm not seeing you [13:51] beauty is subjective; beauty has no objective reality [17:50] Dou Wentao: Wealth replacing labor is the origin of awkwardness. [19:40] Dou Wentao: God’s favorites can only be a select few. [23:21] 窦文涛: 你们都住在一楼吗？哪来的天花板？ [37:20] Xu Gehui: the true sign of aging is when you don't feel old anymore. [43:24] Gu Kaizhi: People know how to adorn their faces, but do not know how to adorn their character. [46:45] This person can't even speak clearly, why should I listen to him?

[0:00] I remember when I was a kid, my brother [0:02] suddenly turned around and slapped me [0:04] in the face, and I asked him, "What are [0:06] you doing?" He said, "I heard this can [0:09] cure stuttering." So, if I may ramble a [0:12] bit, why do I say that beauty is the [0:15] only thing that doesn't cause you [0:17] anxiety, but only makes you more [0:19] successful and open-minded? Because [0:21] look, aesthetic sense is so important. [0:24] For instance, in the past at the [0:25] Beijing Broadcasting Institute, our [0:27] department of voice also had an [0:29] aesthetic, a vocal system. They trained [0:31] us for a resonant, metallic tone, and [0:33] to be eloquent enough to compose essays [0:35] on the spot. But when it comes to our [0:37] chat shows, I find that kind of instant [0:39] eloquence actually quite terrifying. If [0:41] everything a person says could be [0:43] written down as an essay, that would be [0:45] horrifying. We don't speak like that in [0:47] private; this isn't real-life [0:49] conversation. We should speak as if [0:51] we’re talking, not writing essays— [0:54] are you an essay? And look, let me tell [0:56] you, for those who are always so [0:58] eloquent, how do you appreciate their [1:00] language? They are just like the fine [1:02] porcelain I mentioned earlier, right? [1:04] Their exterior is very smooth, their [1:06] pronunciation is graceful—porcelain [1:08] is beautiful, it's one kind of [1:10] aesthetic. But for those who stutter or [1:12] stumble over their words, don't you [1:13] think they resemble the surface of [1:15] rough pottery? Their language has a [1:17] sense of texture. Right? Nowadays, some [1:20] people don't like listening to that, [1:22] thinking, "This person stutters, why [1:24] are they on the show?" You are missing [1:26] out on something good. If you have a [1:28] broader sense of aesthetics, you'll see [1:30] they are like rough pottery. Some [1:32] people speak with such practiced [1:33] eloquence that it’s like they’re [1:35] wearing a suit or a tuxedo—that is [1:37] one kind of beauty. But why is it that [1:40] we sometimes also like jeans with a few [1:42] holes in them? If you apply this [1:44] artistic synesthesia to human language, [1:46] you will find that when some old [1:48] farmers in the fields speak in a blunt, [1:50] straightforward way, I think it’s so [1:53] beautiful. We see this when filming [1:55] documentaries. I don’t want to hear [1:57] those sharp-tongued people; I prefer [1:59] this kind of stuttering. I’m talking [2:01] about the rustic texture, like raw clay [2:04] , where they might not even find the [2:06] right words. Yet, for example, when we [2:09] give an award on stage, we see an old [2:11] model go up, unable to speak, just [2:13] saying "Thank you all" and walking off [2:16] —I find that so vivid. In Chinese [2:18] aesthetics, we talk about "vivid spirit [2:20] "—what does "vivid" really mean? [2:22] You're here, just as I told you. Dear [2:24] audience, you've all made it today, and [2:26] we four are here to serve you. This [2:28] isn't live, is it? Some people keep [2:31] trying to improve their eloquence, [2:33] asking why they can't speak like others [2:35] . I often tell them, maybe you should [2:38] first consider what's charming about [2:40] the way you speak. Perhaps you have [2:42] your own unique charm. Exactly, see how [2:45] simply that solves the problem! [2:48] Sometimes, when you change your mindset [2:50] , something people think is ugly can be [2:53] appreciated as something beautiful. [2:55] Just go ahead and say hello to everyone [2:58] . I heard that among those here today, [3:00] we have friends from Ant Fortune Black [3:03] Card and also our Yuanzhou faction, is [3:05] that right? Oh, look, everyone—hey, I [3:09] saw you yesterday! Ah, yes, yes, there [3:12] were a few fans on stage yesterday who [3:14] were... [3:15] Oh, really? [3:17] They were better than you all. I think [3:19] we could invite them up. [3:21] Sure, we can invite them up later. So, [3:24] being here today, this is a fun event. [3:27] Hui is mine, you all know our [3:29] relationship, right? It’s been [3:31] ambiguous for so many years, hasn't it? [3:34] We haven't seen each other in a long [3:36] time. Right, I’ve always been the [3:39] secret crush Wentao talks about. Today, [3:44] since my other strong rivals aren't [3:47] here—only Zidong and Jiahui are—I [3:50] can be a bit more bold. Hello, everyone [3:55] . [3:55] Every time she comes here, I can't help [3:58] but repeat my mother's classic line. [4:02] Back when Hui and Luyu were always [4:04] hanging out with me, my mom asked, "Why [4:07] don't you pursue her?" I said, "She’s [4:10] out of our league." Then my mom’s [4:13] classic line came out: "If Hui won't do [4:16] , Luyu will." [4:17] Can tell who isn't here. [4:19] The vibe is probably different [4:20] depending on who's here. [4:22] True, true, true. Hello everyone, I’m [4:25] Ma Jiahui from Hong Kong. Actually, [4:29] Wentao once asked me, regarding his " [4:32] distress"—whether it's better to be [4:34] lucky or to be good at it? He asked me, [4:40] "Is it better to have Hui or Luyu?" And [4:45] I told him then, "Isn't there a saying [4:48] that choices are for children?" [4:52] Also, I think everyone coming here [4:55] today is truly a perk from Ant Fortune [4:57] Black Card and our Youku platform. Why [5:00] is that? Because let me tell you, [5:03] online and offline are really not the [5:06] same. True conversation is spontaneous; [5:08] it doesn't need a specific topic. [5:11] Usually, we have a starting point, a [5:14] lead-in, and then we can wander off [5:16] completely, which is just like how we [5:18] chat in real life. So you see, it's [5:23] only in an setting like today's that we [5:26] can truly chat like we used to, so you [5:28] all really lucked out with me today. [5:32] Lately, I’ve also been reflecting on [5:35] the profound significance that patrons [5:37] have for us. I passed by earlier and [5:40] saw the Liuhe Pagoda. It suddenly [5:43] reminded me to talk about someone [5:46] connected to the West Lake: Li Shutong. [5:50] We all know Master Hong Yi—you recall [5:52] when we filmed at the Xihu Seal Art [5:55] Museum, before he became a monk, he [5:57] sealed all his stamps in a box, [5:59] essentially abandoning his wife and [6:02] children to join the monastery. There [6:06] have always been many studies regarding [6:08] why Li Shutong chose to become a monk. [6:11] His disciple, Feng Zikai, offered an [6:14] explanation—just as Professor Xu [6:16] mentioned Kant’s three realms, Mr. [6:18] Feng Zikai also used three reasons to [6:21] explain his teacher. He said, at first, [6:26] a person naturally seeks to make a [6:28] living, and after they are well-fed and [6:31] provided for, they want a black credit [6:33] card, and once they have one, they want [6:36] two. But one day, you’ll realize, [6:42] what’s the difference between having [6:44] 99 cards and 100? Eventually, you will [6:48] want something else. For instance, take [6:51] Li Shutong; everyone knows he was a [6:53] brilliant and dashing scion of a [6:55] wealthy family, a young master who even [6:58] spent time in brothels at one point, [7:00] right? Later, he dedicated himself to [7:03] art, seeking his true calling within it [7:06] . This guy was one of the first people [7:09] to introduce modern drama to China, and [7:12] also one of the first to bring Western [7:14] music—you know, the "twinkle" style [7:16] —to China. For a person like him, his [7:20] personality was such that he had to do [7:23] everything to the best of his ability. [7:27] Sometimes, how extreme could this [7:29] personality be? For example, he once [7:33] arranged for a friend to visit him at [7:35] 8:00 AM the next day. The friend [7:37] arrived five minutes late, at 8:05, and [7:40] no matter how hard he knocked, the door [7:42] wouldn't open. His friend assumed he [7:44] wasn't home and started to leave, but [7:46] he hadn't gone more than a few steps [7:47] when a small window on the second floor [7:49] popped open, and Li Shutong said, "I [7:51] told you eight o'clock, you're five [7:52] minutes late, I'm not seeing you." And [7:54] he slammed it shut. You can see this is [7:57] a person who demands perfection in [7:59] everything, right? Even at the end, he [8:02] became a monk in the Vinaya school. [8:04] Yes, the most difficult school of all. [8:07] The most difficult, the Vinaya school, [8:10] where you cannot break any precepts. It [8:12] even reached the point where, before [8:14] sitting on a chair, he would shake it. [8:16] He was afraid there might be a tiny [8:19] insect inside that he would crush, [8:21] accidentally taking a life. You can [8:23] actually see a consistent character [8:25] trait here: this is a person who pushes [8:28] everything to the extreme. Feng Zikai [8:30] once said that people have different [8:32] levels of existence. Survival is met, [8:36] material needs are met, and next comes [8:39] the aesthetic realm, where I seek [8:41] spiritual fulfillment in art. For Li [8:46] Shutong, even aesthetics and art [8:48] weren't enough; the next step was [8:51] religion. He wanted to transcend life [8:53] and death; as you said, he wanted to [8:56] cultivate that—to transcend life and [8:58] death. Do you see? Man is an insatiable [9:02] animal. Regardless of what we have, we [9:05] are never truly satisfied. Beauty, as [9:07] Professor Xu said, is disinterested, [9:10] and it doesn't care how much money you [9:13] have. It truly provides us with a place [9:16] to find solace in life, right? No [9:19] matter how bad your mood is, if you [9:21] think the mountains look nice, or even [9:24] just appreciating a beautiful woman on [9:26] the street—that is beauty too, right? [9:29] But when you want to possess that [9:31] beauty, trouble begins, and suffering [9:34] follows, right? For instance, when you [9:36] admire a work of art and find it [9:38] beautiful, you want to buy it, and [9:40] that’s when a lack of money becomes a [9:42] problem, right? That’s where the [9:44] distress lies. But beauty doesn't [9:46] necessarily mean possession. Beauty is [9:49] like what Su Dongpo once said: the [9:51] breeze and the bright moon cost nothing [9:53] at all. Yet I get a night of [9:55] satisfaction, especially when shared [9:57] with a few close friends. That’s what [10:00] they call its non-material nature. For [10:03] example, in human perception, those [10:05] involved in or studying art understand [10:08] concepts like the golden ratio, golden [10:11] section, and color contrast. Of course, [10:14] there is also the spiritual realization [10:17] ; tragedy can be a form of beauty, and [10:19] desolation is a form of beauty. There's [10:22] Eileen Chang, and our Professor Xu [10:24] knows that best—anything can be [10:25] beautiful, even what we often call the [10:28] "aesthetics of violence" in Takeshi [10:30] Kitano's films. [10:31] Exactly. [10:32] It seems natural, but when you look [10:34] back, how can violence be beautiful? [10:37] That's a point to ponder. Isn't [10:39] violence just bloodiness? Regardless of [10:42] whether you kill a villain or a good [10:44] person, there's blood, death, and [10:46] destruction. Where does the beauty come [10:48] from? Is beauty a sense of completion? [10:51] Or is beauty something you find [10:54] impossible? Some even say that beauty [10:57] is a kind of hidden desire. This desire [11:02] is connected to death; only in a [11:05] certain moment, when you feel the [11:07] manifestation and completion of that [11:10] desire, does that moment become the [11:12] existence of beauty—that's another [11:15] perspective. So it's hard to say, but I [11:18] find it quite fascinating. There’s a [11:21] theory about beauty, but what is "most [11:24] beautiful"? The most universally [11:26] accepted beauty is harmony. You might [11:29] ask why, but aside from physical or [11:31] biological factors, don't forget there [11:34] is another dimension, another aspect: [11:37] sociality, right? Different classes, [11:40] different ethnicities, different eras, [11:42] different genders, and so on. They have [11:45] their own requirements for beauty. As [11:49] long as they feel that a person or [11:51] thing is in harmonious alignment with [11:54] their environment, then for them, it is [11:56] already a completion of beauty. That is [12:00] the social aspect. It’s actually [12:03] quite fun. Psychologists once conducted [12:06] this experiment on what constitutes a [12:08] handsome man or a beautiful woman, as [12:11] we all seem to think there is a [12:13] specific, pleasing proportion. Some [12:18] psychologists took hundreds of photos [12:20] of men and women, then asked thousands [12:22] of people to look at them and select [12:24] which parts they considered the most [12:27] ordinary, the most average. For this [12:31] person in the photo, the eyes are [12:33] ordinary; for that one, the nose or [12:35] mouth is ordinary—they marked them [12:37] all down. Then, they took all these [12:40] parts that thousands of people had [12:42] identified as very ordinary. They [12:49] combined these plain, mediocre, and [12:51] ordinary parts to create an image of a [12:55] man and an image of a woman. Then they [13:01] showed these to another group of [13:03] thousands, and they all thought they [13:05] were so beautiful! It turns out that [13:08] adding up all the most ordinary, [13:10] mediocre parts makes something most [13:13] easily perceived as beautiful. That’s [13:15] very interesting—we realize that the [13:18] most ordinary parts are the most [13:20] beautiful to us. Is it because they [13:23] pose no threat to you? You don't feel [13:27] jealous, or is it because you see [13:29] yourself in that image of an ordinary [13:32] person? You see your own sense of [13:36] satisfaction; that is also me. We [13:39] always need to affirm that we possess [13:41] some kind of beauty. Every day I look [13:44] in the mirror and think I'm the most [13:46] handsome; others must encourage me, so [13:49] beauty is hard to define. [13:51] You see, when people ask about the [13:52] difference between humans and animals, [13:54] there is actually no evidence that any [13:56] animal has an aesthetic sense. The [13:58] definition given by Plato in the past [14:00] has been repeated to this day, stating [14:02] that beauty is "difficult." Many have [14:04] explored this; it’s not that beauty [14:06] is "female," it’s that beauty is " [14:08] challenging." We just can't find a [14:10] single definition. Everyone present can [14:13] think about this: we humans are always [14:15] saying this thing or that is beautiful, [14:18] and we even look down on others ' [14:20] aesthetics. Right? "Oh, how vulgar they [14:23] are," or "How ugly that is." The [14:25] implication is that we ourselves [14:27] understand beauty best, but in reality, [14:29] we don't know what beauty is. I think [14:31] this is a topic for you, Professor of [14:33] Literature. [14:34] To summarize simply: it is completeness [14:37] , harmony, and vividness. If you’re [14:39] missing an ear, your nose is crooked, [14:42] or it's too dark, those just won't do. [14:44] So, there is a set of rules. There is a [14:47] value system that suggests beauty [14:50] represents a kind of benefit. [14:52] Ultimately, it means it is useful to [14:55] humanity. Nude women in paintings are [15:00] depicted as plump because their breasts [15:03] represent nursing children and [15:05] symbolize reproduction, so there is an [15:07] ulterior motive and purpose behind it. [15:12] But the British approach, which we [15:14] accept most today, is that "beauty is [15:17] subjective; beauty has no objective [15:19] reality." The topic is the relationship [15:22] between wealth and aesthetics. As [15:25] mentioned today, it is related to our [15:27] social background and our human nature. [15:30] There are a thousand Hamlets in a [15:32] thousand people's eyes. For example, [15:34] like myself... [15:36] What is your question? [15:37] It’s like this: if you look at China [15:40] in the 1970s, before the reforms. [15:42] Before the opening up, we used fabric [15:44] coupons to get materials, and then used [15:46] those coupons to go. Make clothes, [15:48] which formed a standardized aesthetic. [15:51] Then, after the reform and opening up, [15:53] the entry of Shanghai-style culture [15:56] began. After that, the Chinese people's [15:58] aesthetic shifted, and we began to have [16:00] various perceptions, for instance, [16:02] regarding trend culture. Then, after [16:04] the year 2000, luxury goods brought [16:06] about a transformation in Chinese [16:08] fashion aesthetics, and the Chinese [16:10] lifestyle changed—for example, we [16:12] would buy luxury goods to represent [16:15] one's social status. After 20 years of [16:17] development, 20 years later, when the [16:19] millennial generation was born, their [16:22] perception of beauty changed. They now [16:24] seek a kind of individuality. In the [16:28] design process, we may try to satisfy [16:31] the aesthetic needs of our clients and [16:33] our consumers to a certain extent. So [16:36] my question today is, what is the [16:38] relationship between the flow of wealth [16:41] and the standards of aesthetics? [16:43] Alright, who wants to answer Hamlet's [16:45] question? [16:46] How about Ophelia? Ophelia? Hey, isn't [16:50] your English name Ophelia? [16:52] Olivia? Olivia. Right, that's his [16:55] partner. Olivia, the one who drowned [16:58] herself, that's you guys. Then it's [17:00] Olivia, right? [17:01] No. [17:02] It's not that one? Oh, I'm uncultured, [17:06] I apologize. Go ahead. [17:08] What was the question? [17:09] The question Hamlet asked. [17:11] His question is roughly about the [17:13] changes in fashion trends. Is it [17:15] related to money? [17:17] Yes, is there any direct relationship [17:19] with wealth? [17:20] Our aesthetics are indeed related to [17:23] wealth now. The reason for this [17:26] relationship is that our translation [17:28] was not good back then. It's the [17:31] world's strongest currency. We call it [17:35] the US Dollar. It's the root of all [17:38] evil. The day we break its [17:40] international monopoly, money won't be [17:43] beautiful anymore; it will be real, [17:45] right? This is the simplest answer to [17:49] your question. [17:50] No, let me add to that. You mentioned [17:53] the flow of wealth; the keyword I heard [17:56] was "flow." It makes me think of all [17:58] the comedies and tragedies in the world [18:01] . As wealth moves from much to little, [18:04] or little to much, what is the [18:06] relationship with beauty? I think it's [18:09] often awkward. You want to buy this [18:12] beauty, you want to decorate, but oh, [18:14] you're short on cash; that's awkward. [18:17] There's another kind of awkwardness [18:19] related to the flow of wealth too. Okay [18:23] , you go from having no money to [18:25] suddenly being what they call "filthy [18:28] rich." Beauty is a learned skill. [18:31] Beauty, like art, has a definition. [18:35] What is art? It is acquired. An [18:39] acquired ability. It is acquired. It [18:42] requires effort. You have to pay effort [18:45] ; it's an ability that must be learned. [18:48] Going from broke to suddenly wealthy, [18:51] but without the upbringing or the [18:53] social class's shared standards of [18:55] beauty. That's why we heard of some [18:57] newly rich friends who tried to learn [18:59] —learning to buy clothes, learning to [19:02] decorate, or saying, "I'll give you [19:04] however much money, just decorate this [19:07] room for me as beautifully as possible. [19:09] " But what even is beauty to you? I [19:12] don't get it either. I'll give you [19:14] money, you design it for me, or buy me [19:16] luxury brands—that’s also awkward. [19:19] Wealth replacing labor is the origin of [19:21] awkwardness, you know? Here is how [19:23] I’d answer that. Is Hamlet satisfied [19:27] now? Why are you dressed like Hamlet [19:30] today? You look really good. Alright, [19:34] host, please arrange the next part. [19:40] Uh, the lady in the red top. [19:46] Don't be nervous, take a deep breath. [19:49] Teacher, am I a bit oxygen-deprived? [19:52] Yes, yes, I’ve been like this all day [19:54] . Teacher, the first time I heard you [19:57] speak in person, I was still in [19:59] elementary school, at the Central [20:01] Newsreel and Documentary Film Studio. [20:03] You're exposing how old I am. [20:07] I just felt like this perspective was a [20:09] flashback to those days, I’m actually [20:12] quite excited. I’m a cinematographer [20:14] and director now. [20:16] Oh, impressive, very impressive. Yes, [20:19] so I’m thrilled to be able to talk [20:21] about aesthetics with you today, [20:23] Teacher Dou. I’d like to ask you a [20:25] question. Having listened to your first [20:30] session regarding short-form videos, AI [20:33] , and the era of self-media. The [20:39] development of aesthetics has become a [20:42] bit wild, and we find it hard to grasp [20:44] what future beauty will look like. [20:50] Since beauty is now such a powerful [20:52] dividend for future growth, what is [20:55] your take on it? Thank you. [21:00] Honestly speaking, please sit down, [21:02] please have a seat. Sometimes I feel [21:06] there is something quite helpless. That [21:11] is, in the end, God’s favorites can [21:14] only be a select few. Historically [21:19] speaking, look at every generation— [21:21] those who reached the peak of [21:23] aesthetics and those who appreciated it [21:26] were, you have to admit, a minority. [21:32] Even the things the masses liked, [21:34] though very popular at the time, were [21:36] likely forgotten by the next century or [21:39] dynasty. For example, the items we see [21:43] in the museum today have been vetted by [21:46] 5,000 years. For 5,000 years, the [21:49] brilliant minds of every dynasty have [21:51] certified them as worthy of [21:53] preservation, as eternal, as the gold [21:56] standard, which is why they appear in [21:58] our National Museum. Many other things [22:01] have vanished into thin air, even [22:03] though they might have been far more [22:05] popular at the time than what is in the [22:07] museum today. Right? That is why we say [22:10] beauty is difficult. That’s the [22:13] difficult part, and sometimes it even [22:15] depends on whether you have that bit of [22:17] luck. I believe those of us here today [22:21] are definitely among the few, or at [22:24] least we have this aspiration; humans [22:26] are never satisfied, which is both a [22:29] good and a bad trait. For example, in [22:33] your first year, you might be perfectly [22:36] content just singing karaoke. But once [22:39] you’ve had enough of that, people [22:41] naturally like to explore further. [22:43] Actually, this is the driving force [22:45] behind aesthetics. You might say, I [22:47] shouldn't just do karaoke; one day I [22:49] want to be able to sing for my friends [22:51] without looking at the lyrics and blow [22:53] them away with just my voice. Now [22:55] you're satisfied, but this comes with a [22:57] bit of a threshold; you’ll improve, [23:00] right? Then you find that everyone [23:02] really welcomes your singing. You say, [23:05] I also need to read music, and I want [23:07] to play the piano while I sing for them [23:10] —now you've developed a real skill. [23:13] You won't be satisfied; many people, [23:16] due to the pressures of life, or [23:18] perhaps because they reach middle age, [23:21] I feel sometimes suddenly lose their [23:23] curiosity. They lose that drive and [23:26] just want to sleep their days away. [23:29] It’s not necessarily that they lack [23:31] time, but rather that they've lost that [23:33] spirit. But in my opinion, if you lose [23:36] that spirit, the flavor of life is [23:38] diminished significantly. If you have [23:40] that spirit, you’ll have joy even in [23:43] your old age. Some of my friends who [23:45] are collectors have this feeling; even [23:48] when they are very old, they seem [23:50] incredibly young. It’s because they [23:52] still have an interest, like when they [23:55] see something and exclaim, "Oh, I love [23:57] this so much!" you know? At the very [24:00] least, they have this childlike quality [24:02] about them, regardless of what it is [24:04] they love, right? This quality is very [24:07] important for people; it's about [24:09] whether, no matter how old you get, you [24:11] can still love something like a child. [24:14] Because you love it, you will improve. [24:17] It's like loving to play a sport, right [24:19] ? You always hope your level will [24:21] gradually rise; after finishing a game [24:24] with a first-dan player, you want to [24:26] play against a second-dan player. [24:28] People are always improving, so what I [24:30] can say is that aesthetics, including [24:32] your photography, are all the same. Why [24:34] do I say that people who are always [24:36] full of themselves don't necessarily [24:38] make much progress? It's because they [24:40] are too easily satisfied, thinking, " [24:42] I'm the best, I'm number one in the [24:44] country, everyone listens to me, I'm [24:46] the authority." Actually, if you define [24:49] yourself in that way, I really doubt [24:51] how much progress you can make. It's [24:53] like when we were doing "Qiang Xing [24:55] Tian Xia," I was chatting with Zhou [24:58] Qimo and said, "Everyone nowadays loves [25:00] talking about so-called' ceilings '." I [25:02] asked, "Do you all live on the first [25:05] floor?" How could there be a ceiling? [25:07] Look above our heads, like in that poem [25:10] by Bei Dao, what is actually up there? [25:12] It's the stars, flickering, an [25:15] unobstructed, wide-open sky, right? Our [25:19] sky is unobstructed. Why do people now [25:23] love to label someone as an "industry [25:25] ceiling"? What about our blue skies and [25:28] white clouds? There is no limit to [25:31] anything. How can there be a ceiling? [25:34] Ceilings are meant to be broken through [25:36] , aren't they? Because we humans are [25:39] never satisfied; we always want to move [25:41] upward. This human lack of contentment [25:43] —in my own experience—is that once [25:46] you play with something, you get bored. [25:48] This isn't great when applied to [25:50] relationships—that makes you a " [25:52] playboy"—but it's excellent for [25:54] aesthetics, because you naturally [25:56] remain unsatisfied. You naturally feel [25:59] that you must become better, reaching [26:02] the very top. For instance, there is a [26:04] certain kind of joy in this world; why [26:07] do I say it belongs to a minority? It [26:09] seems it was Einstein, or perhaps [26:11] another physicist, who said that those [26:13] who can truly talk to me and understand [26:16] my theory of relativity number no more [26:18] than five. Have you noticed? There is [26:21] that kind of pleasure. There are only [26:24] five people in this world who can [26:26] discuss it. It reaches such a level of [26:27] sophistication that we have no way to [26:29] participate. But they must be really [26:31] thrilled, right? They must be very [26:34] happy, right? No matter which field you [26:36] delve into—here in Hangzhou, we have [26:38] people playing the guqin, the xiao, the [26:40] tea ceremony, and more—these are all [26:42] different levels. The higher you play, [26:44] the fewer the people, fewer and fewer. [26:47] So you know, the literati of the [26:49] Jiangnan region back in the day loved [26:51] to say, "Who will listen to the broken [26:54] strings of a soulmate?" You will keep [26:57] advancing, but at the same time, you'll [27:00] find fewer and fewer people around you [27:02] to talk to. This is a destiny. You will [27:07] inevitably improve, and your soulmates [27:10] will inevitably become fewer, but you [27:12] will also inevitably reach higher [27:15] levels. I have just one addition. In [27:18] the future, when you ask questions [27:20] about "playboys," don't look at me. [27:23] I’d like to add a bit to that, as it [27:26] makes me a little embarrassed. [27:29] Historically, aesthetics have favored a [27:32] lucky few, largely because wealth held [27:35] absolute influence. But we must realize [27:39] that our era is changing. Aesthetics [27:42] are becoming increasingly diverse and [27:45] flattened. Thanks to the rise of social [27:48] media and the internet, we’ve found [27:50] that everyone now has the power and [27:52] opportunity to voice their own opinions [27:54] . Take Gen Z, for example; they [27:58] aren’t afraid to forgo designer [28:00] labels or luxury goods just to flaunt [28:03] their wealth and status, right? Another [28:07] great example: you are a female [28:09] photographer, and women are actually a [28:12] minority in this field, right? So, your [28:15] involvement creates an opportunity to [28:18] express your perspective. Whether you [28:21] call it a female perspective or a [28:24] personal one, as these opportunities [28:26] and phenomena grow, we can foresee a [28:28] shift in future aesthetics. [28:31] Last time I was at the Chinese [28:33] University of Hong Kong, they brought [28:35] this up. In the end, I said that [28:37] perhaps in the future, the difference [28:39] and opportunities for biological humans [28:41] will lie in aesthetics—though I also [28:44] mentioned character is even more vital, [28:46] which is also related to aesthetics, [28:48] but we won’t go into detail there. I [28:51] mean, think about it: in the future, [28:54] many things can be replaced, but humans [28:57] have to make choices. What do you rely [29:00] on to make a choice? When you buy [29:02] clothes, why do you choose this one? [29:04] The only difference is aesthetics. And [29:07] what’s even more impressive is " [29:10] seeing all beings." If I want to run a [29:13] business or a company, that is truly [29:16] remarkable—knowing not just my own [29:18] aesthetics, but everyone else's as well [29:21] . That is the superior aesthetic [29:23] ability of Cao Xueqin. I always talk [29:26] about Dream of the Red Chamber. Lin [29:28] Daiyu’s lines sound just like her, [29:31] Jia Zheng’s lines sound just like him [29:33] , and Jia Da’s lines sound just like [29:36] his. It’s having a hundred different [29:38] personas in one’s heart; like you [29:40] mentioned about your school, it’s [29:42] about having everyone in your heart— [29:44] the ability to understand them all, you [29:46] , them, and me. So, if you want to help [29:52] customers or users make a choice, and [29:54] you know both what I like and what they [29:57] like, then you’ll succeed and earn [29:59] that "black card." [30:05] All right, thank you very much to our [30:07] young lady. Now, today, I also spotted [30:11] a familiar face here. Can you guess who [30:14] it is? Rui, is that you? I didn't see [30:17] wrong, did I? It must be Xi Rui, [30:19] because I used to watch*I Can I BB*a [30:22] lot, so I recognized you in our [30:24] audience. You must have a question too, [30:26] right? [30:27] First of all, thank you. Hmm. [30:29] Alright. Hello, professors. I am a [30:32] debater; *I Can I BB*is a debate show, [30:34] and my major is literary aesthetics. I [30:36] truly have a question. I’d like to [30:38] ask Professor Xu Zidong, since you [30:40] teach modern literature: my question is [30:42] brief—is there a hierarchy in [30:44] aesthetics? Because in literature, we [30:46] have "classic literature," which we [30:48] generally consider to be more worth [30:50] reading. If literature has a hierarchy, [30:52] Professor Xu just said we’ve entered [30:54] an era of diverse aesthetics, where [30:56] there are a thousand Hamlets for a [30:58] thousand readers. Many people use this [31:01] aesthetic relativism to deny that [31:03] aesthetics can be divided into high or [31:06] low. In this era, is it still necessary [31:08] to distinguish between high and low [31:11] aesthetics? If so, are there any [31:13] standards we can discuss to distinguish [31:16] between high and low aesthetics? [31:18] Please, take a seat. [31:20] What they just said was relatively [31:22] optimistic. [31:23] Wentao’s general point was that our [31:25] aesthetic needs are never fully [31:27] satisfied, which ultimately leads to an [31:30] overall rise in standards, breaking [31:32] through ceilings and rising even [31:34] further. Ge Hui encourages us by saying [31:37] that as we face a new era that [31:39] emphasizes diversity, everyone with a [31:42] smartphone is an art photographer, [31:45] right? Everyone is creating. I am more [31:48] pessimistic; I tend to believe in Liang [31:51] Shiqiu's perspective. That is, great [31:54] art in this world will always be [31:56] appreciated by only a few. It’s not [32:00] about elitism, it’s just that even [32:02] when people read*Dream of the Red [32:04] Chamber*, everyone reads it from a [32:07] different angle. So, do you need to [32:10] distinguish between classic literature [32:13] and popular literature? There’s no [32:15] need to create an artificial divide, [32:18] but it will always exist. It has some [32:21] fundamental principles that won’t [32:23] change regardless of time or AI. The [32:29] most basic point is that the key to [32:31] popular literature is popularity and [32:34] entertainment; it’s meant to make [32:36] people happy. The hallmark of pure [32:41] literature is that I must create [32:43] something different from what already [32:45] exists in literature. These two goals [32:48] are fundamentally different, so it's [32:51] fine for them to go their own ways; it [32:53] doesn't mean pure literature is [32:55] inherently better than popular [32:57] literature. For instance, I have always [33:01] considered Jin Yong a popular novelist, [33:04] and while he is better than most [33:06] serious literary authors, categories [33:08] still need to be distinguished. [33:13] Returning to the photographer's [33:15] question just now, how should we [33:17] approach the dividends of this [33:19] miraculous ability? His question is [33:22] truly a thorny one. What is it? If we [33:25] were to shoot a short video right now, [33:28] would you dare to design the [33:30] protagonist’s clothing according to [33:32] your own aesthetic taste? Why do these [33:35] short videos now all look the same— [33:37] not to mention the content, even the [33:39] clothes and hair are styled almost [33:42] identically? When you look at those [33:46] influencers, they are all the same; [33:48] it's not that the photographers or [33:50] artists are foolish, but rather they [33:52] are considering the maximum sales of [33:55] their product. It follows the same [34:01] logic as KFC and McDonald's; for me, [34:03] shooting this requires click-through [34:06] rates, and right now, traffic is lethal [34:09] . So you go on to pursue your own [34:12] beauty, right? I must pursue my traffic [34:15] , and that traffic means catering to [34:18] the masses; there's no way around it. [34:20] This isn't just a problem in China— [34:23] look at Netflix and Hollywood movies in [34:25] the U.S. today, the quality is [34:27] increasingly declining. Do you really [34:30] think those people are stupid? It’s [34:33] simply about facing the public, facing [34:35] traffic, facing economic pressure, and [34:38] the demand for the black card. We all [34:41] know that the relationship between [34:43] money and beauty, between dollars and [34:45] aesthetics, is quite terrible. Don't [34:49] think I'm joking; this is symbolic, [34:52] it's something representational. My [34:56] perspective is relatively pessimistic, [34:59] but that doesn't stop us from being [35:01] faithful to what we do. We each define [35:05] our own position: I want to be a [35:08] bestselling author, I want to be a [35:10] pioneer in short videos, I want to be [35:13] the ceiling here, or I simply write my [35:16] own things—perhaps no one values them [35:19] now, but in 20 years people will [35:21] discover my worth, or I’ll be buried [35:24] forever. I don’t care. Everyone's [35:30] self-positioning leads to our different [35:33] views on beauty, and you must never [35:35] underestimate mass traffic, because it [35:38] represents public sentiment, national [35:40] conditions, common opinion, and even [35:43] aesthetics, right? It all comes back to [35:48] that. Alright, let’s take the next [35:50] question from the young lady in the [35:52] back row. Thank you. We held a session [35:56] on money this morning. Because money [35:58] causes anxiety, we are here; we worry [36:01] that our money will decrease or grow [36:03] too slowly, so we came to listen to [36:06] this talk, and then this afternoon, we [36:08] will have another session on aesthetics [36:11] . But beauty can actually cause anxiety [36:13] too—worrying that you aren't [36:15] beautiful enough, that you lack the [36:17] ability to appreciate beauty, or that [36:19] you don't possess enough of it. Today, [36:21] the teachers here have all shared [36:23] points about how beauty brings joy, [36:26] happiness, and relaxation. I’m not [36:29] sure if you teachers have ever felt [36:31] anxious because of beauty, and whether [36:34] there’s a way to break free from it, [36:36] since there are ways to resolve [36:38] financial anxiety. It’s either that [36:41] it’s actually grown to the point [36:43] where the difference between 100 cards [36:44] and 99 cards doesn't matter anymore, or [36:46] I’ve given up because I can’t have [36:48] that much. Right. Your question of [36:51] anxiety is the anxiety of beauty. [36:53] Anxiety about beauty, the anxiety of [36:55] not having enough beauty, the aesthetic [36:57] — [36:57] There must be anxiety about beauty, [36:59] surely. What are you afraid of? Well, [37:02] Becoming ugly or aging. [37:03] I didn't say that. [37:04] Ask everyone—do we women all have [37:06] this anxiety? Do you? [37:08] Yes. [37:09] We do, right? [37:10] Please, take a seat. Everyone, about [37:12] your question. [37:13] Of course it exists. [37:14] So what can be done? [37:16] And it's always going to be there. So [37:18] what can be done? [37:20] There doesn't seem to be any [37:22] particularly effective way, only [37:24] self-reassurance. I remember when I was [37:30] around 20, I thought I wouldn't live [37:33] past 35. I had planned even earlier, [37:35] because I thought I would... [37:39] 35 is so old. [37:42] Well, I’m way past 53 now. And I [37:45] actually feel so young. Sometimes I [37:49] even forget how old I actually am. [37:51] Really, I’m telling you, the true [37:53] sign of aging is when you don't feel [37:56] old anymore. [37:57] Look, she dyed her hair this color. Yes [38:00] , avant-garde. How cool is that? [38:03] Yes, yes, exactly. When I first started [38:07] at Phoenix, I remember being most [38:09] afraid of being called a "vase," but [38:11] now, I just hope people see me as the [38:14] flower blooming in that vase. Actually, [38:17] I can share with everyone whether you [38:19] should do things to become more [38:21] beautiful. Like getting some cosmetic [38:25] enhancements—I’ve consulted many of [38:28] my girlfriends, and they’ve given me [38:30] a lot of advice. It’s not that I [38:34] don’t want to do it; I often think [38:36] about it. I just want to know if I can [38:39] do it once and for all. They all shook [38:42] their heads and said no, so I didn't do [38:44] it. I am definitely waiting for the day [38:47] when beauty becomes effortless. I'm [38:49] really, really looking forward to the [38:52] development of this technology. For [38:54] example, I've often thought, wouldn't [38:57] it be great if makeup just meant [38:59] applying a face mask, and that mask [39:02] instantly provided your entire look? I [39:05] think if you're working in, what do you [39:07] call it, bio-beauty, or whatever it's [39:10] called, right? If you're in the beauty [39:14] industry, or bio-cosmetics—not [39:16] plastic surgery, just inventing a [39:18] makeup mask—where you just slap it on [39:21] your face, and boom, your makeup is [39:23] done. That has been my biggest dream [39:27] throughout my career. [39:28] Right. Mm. [39:31] I think what everyone said is quite [39:33] good, and it sparked a thought for me. [39:36] I hadn't considered the issue from that [39:38] perspective before, but I remember [39:41] hearing Li He talk about women, and I [39:43] found his point very interesting. He [39:49] said that when a woman is young, you [39:51] are the object of aesthetic [39:53] appreciation, right? You have that kind [39:59] of self-perception, he said. But then, [40:02] at a certain age, you might no longer [40:04] be that object of aesthetic [40:06] appreciation, but you become the one [40:09] who appreciates. He said, "I think [40:11] that's actually quite stress-free and [40:14] quite nice." It means I don't have to [40:17] feel anxious about whether others are [40:19] admiring me, because before, it felt [40:22] like I was the flower myself. But, [40:24] after reaching a certain age, I start [40:26] to feel like I am the one viewing the [40:28] flowers. I think so, he said. [40:30] Going from being the viewed to the [40:32] viewer. [40:33] Is that the right way to understand it? [40:35] Especially since Wentao is often a [40:37] judge for beauty pageants. [40:38] I'm the host, okay? He's a judge, he's [40:42] a judge! Should we talk about the [40:45] choice of beauty? [40:46] Are you talking about anxiety over [40:48] beauty...... [40:49] or anxiety over aesthetic sensibility? [40:52] Anxiety over beauty? Or the possession [40:54] of aesthetic sensibility? You're trying [40:57] to add another question for him. [40:59] Aesthetic sensibility, because if I [41:01] were to hear...if I heard anxiety about [41:04] aesthetic sensibility—not [41:06] understanding beauty or how to [41:08] appreciate it. To me, that’s just [41:11] like being anxious about any other [41:13] ability. Like, I often wonder if I am [41:18] kind enough, good enough, or [41:20] compassionate enough toward someone. [41:23] And if I realize I was a bit harsh or [41:26] had a bad attitude toward someone today [41:29] , it's the same thing; I feel anxious. [41:32] And what about that anxiety? I will do [41:36] better, thinking about what I should [41:38] have done last time, like being more [41:41] polite to people and more careful, or [41:43] how I dress, for instance, wearing this [41:45] outfit on a round table before. I [41:50] always dressed like this. Then a good [41:54] stylist friend of mine said, "Jiahui, [41:56] you can't do that, it's too dowdy," and [41:59] suggested this instead. He told me to [42:03] dress like this, so I listened, and [42:05] that's what I did in the last episode. [42:08] I opened up like this, and later I saw [42:10] the effect was quite good, so I [42:13] followed his advice. So, as I mentioned [42:15] in my response earlier, it's something [42:18] learned, a skill, just like anything [42:21] else, so what I mean is that beauty [42:23] must also be learned. I am trusting; [42:26] when they say things, like that stylist [42:29] friend saying, "Teacher Jiahui, you [42:31] should wear white sneakers with that." [42:34] Then I made a request of him since he [42:36] was wearing white shoes, asking him to [42:39] give me his to wear, but he wouldn't. [42:41] So I learned, and next time I wore [42:44] white shoes. What I mean is, life for [42:47] me is just like everything else. Am I [42:50] kind enough to people? Have I read [42:53] enough books? Are my essays and novels [42:56] written well? I demand more of myself [42:58] if I write poorly; what else can I do? [43:01] Should I go and plagiarize? Right? That [43:05] wouldn't be right; plagiarism wouldn't [43:07] help, so if not, I just write, work [43:10] hard, read, read Professor Zidong's [43:12] latest collection, right? Read how he [43:15] critiques literature, so I think if [43:18] there's anxiety, let it be; anxiety is [43:21] a driving force that pushes you forward [43:24] , or perhaps Guo Hui—I always [43:26] mispronounce it, is it Guo Hui or Ge? [43:30] Guo Hui is a different substance. [43:34] Ah, that Ah Hui, Xiao Hui says that his [43:37] experience of time sometimes changes, [43:40] and we see that friends in life have [43:43] two currencies: one is money, the other [43:46] is time. My answer to your question is [43:53] that I feel beauty is the only thing in [43:56] life that does not make me anxious. [44:00] Because it is truly an enjoyment, a [44:03] blessing, and a great piece of good [44:06] fortune. Because beauty is primarily [44:10] intuitive; it is experiential. It first [44:13] makes you feel comfortable, but as I [44:16] just said, it is a form of [44:18] dissatisfaction that goes from shallow [44:21] to deep. Your progress is inevitable; [44:24] as you keep improving, you will never [44:26] be satisfied, and the blessings brought [44:29] to you by this wonderful world will [44:31] grow ever greater. You will even find [44:35] yourself able to appreciate more and [44:37] more things. Given this, how could you [44:41] possibly feel anxious? For instance, [44:44] what was just mentioned reminded me of [44:47] the "Admonitions of the Court [44:49] Instructress" scroll by Gu Kaizhi. It [44:54] depicts stories of women from that era, [44:56] including some of the moral [44:58] expectations placed on women at the [45:00] time, right? There are two lines [45:03] written there that are very profound; [45:05] they go something like, "People know [45:07] how to adorn their faces, but do not [45:08] know how to adorn their character"—I [45:10] don’t recall the exact wording. It [45:12] shows a woman looking in a mirror, and [45:15] he expresses a sentiment that everyone [45:17] knows how to beautify themselves. [45:19] Everyone knows how to make their face [45:22] look a little better. But he says no [45:24] one knows how to make their character [45:27] more beautiful. You see, within this, [45:29] there is a progression from the [45:31] superficial to the profound, a process [45:34] from the outer to the inner; you will [45:37] grow, and why? You will become [45:39] increasingly broad-minded. For example, [45:42] hearing Jiahui speak suddenly gave me [45:44] an idea. What has my aesthetic sense [45:47] opened up for me? It's whether you can [45:50] appreciate different types of people. [45:53] For instance, we’ve developed a [45:56] culture where you are a master of talk [45:58] shows, and I've noticed people now [46:00] expect everyone to speak with that same [46:02] standard of eloquence. Everyone expects [46:06] fluent oratory. But do I not find [46:10] stuttering speech beautiful? Is it not [46:13] beautiful when someone’s Mandarin is [46:15] imperfect, or when they have a Hong [46:18] Kong accent? Is it not? Right? Even [46:21] someone who is shy by nature and not [46:23] good with words. Someone who struggles [46:26] for ages and can't get a word out—I [46:28] might fall in love with them. Just as [46:30] the Chinese saying goes: " [46:32] Everyone loves you."" [46:34] Separated by a single stream, silent [46:36] and unable to speak." Sometimes, you [46:38] might actually fall in love with [46:40] someone who knows how to be silent. So, [46:43] you see, once you have such aesthetic [46:45] breadth, to be honest, people often ask [46:48] who is qualified to be on "Round Table. [46:50] " I say we aren’t a performance-based [46:54] show; we don't judge by eloquence. [46:57] Honestly, my own speech isn't great—I [46:59] stumble over my words too—so I don't [47:02] prioritize that. What I value is your [47:05] insight, your perspective, and even [47:08] your temperament. Even your character. [47:12] I’m interested in this. You mentioned [47:14] stuttering, which is fine. Sometimes we [47:17] are too used to expecting people to [47:19] speak perfectly, to be articulate, [47:22] fluent, and precise with every word. [47:24] You’re looking for linguistic fast [47:26] food, right? Only professional actors [47:29] could satisfy you. But you’re missing [47:32] out on a lot of opportunities. For [47:35] example, I often listen to teachers [47:38] online, but sometimes there’s only [47:40] one student because the teacher might [47:42] have a Subei accent and stutters while [47:45] speaking. Did you see that? Because [47:49] today’s netizens say, "This person [47:51] can't even speak clearly, why should I [47:53] listen to him?""I want to listen to [47:55] someone who speaks fluently." But do [47:58] you know what? Many things I share on [48:01] this show. Often come from these [48:04] stuttering teachers I hear online. What [48:07] they teach is the real deal. Perhaps [48:10] you don't need to demand eloquence from [48:13] them, but rather improve your own [48:15] ability to understand. Friends, [48:18] Improve your own receptivity, improve [48:20] your own ability to digest information. [48:22] Many people who aren't good at speaking [48:24] have something truly precious within [48:26] them. If you treat them like some kind [48:28] of contestant, analyzing how they [48:30] perform, that isn't the most important [48:31] thing, just as a person's appearance [48:33] isn't the most important thing. You [48:35] need to learn to understand them. Some [48:38] people talk for a long time. You see, [48:40] those lazy listeners might say, what is [48:42] he even talking about? I can't [48:44] understand him at all, but I will [48:46] listen carefully with my ears, and from [48:49] his unclear expression and his mediocre [48:52] eloquence. I have found a treasure. And [48:55] then I relay it to all of you. Who is [48:58] this? [48:58] Thank you, Wentao, for your praise. [49:01] Thank you.