[09:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=567s) The Brutality of Initiating a Breakup and the Rationality of Love
The conversation begins with an examination of the hidden psychological toll borne by the person who initiates an emotional separation. Proposing a breakup is likened to "shooting someone who is unarmed"—a cold, one-sided strike that inflicts immense guilt. Society universally sympathizes with the person who gets dumped, yet rarely considers the traumatic "recoil" felt by the dumper, whose lingering distress and psychological weight can be equally terrifying. When asked whether she has dumped others or been dumped more, Professor Li Meijin readily admits that she has almost always been the one to walk away. She attributes her decisive nature to her academic training in philosophy, which instilled an unyielding, almost clinical rationality into her emotional life. Having truly loved only once, she chose to step away proactively after soberly evaluating the practical disparities between them, concluding that lasting relationships require compatible, symmetrical backgrounds rather than reaching for someone situated "higher."
Recalling a past relationship where she ended things ruthlessly, Li Meijin acknowledges the sharp pain she caused, yet maintains that when a dynamic has no future, an immediate internal severance is necessary. Turning to the story of a lover walking endless miles through the streets to cope with a breakup, she provides a dual physiological and psychological analysis. Physically, sustained walking stimulates the nervous system and provides a somatic release for bottled-up tension. Psychologically, however, she notes that such prolonged wandering possesses a distinctly "theatrical" quality: it is a solitary performance wherein the heartbroken person actively savors their own sorrow, secretly yearning for the estranged partner to witness their suffering. Yet, in modern relationships, excessive emotional gestures often backfire; when a partner feels something is irretrievably over, dramatic displays of loyalty and devotion are perceived merely as suffocating clinginess, provoking fear and retreat rather than rekindling affection.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Breakup Response Mechanisms
accDescr: Flowchart illustrating the divergent psychological coping mechanisms following a romantic breakup.
subgraph Destructive["Pathological Fixation (The Case Study)"]
B --> C["Obsessive Attachment & Entitlement"]
C --> D["Inability to Let Go"]
D --> E["Lured Meeting & Anesthetic"]
E --> F["Retaliatory Crime / Homicide"]
end
subgraph Constructive["Rationality & Sublimation (Wendao & Meijin)"]
B --> G["Somatic & Creative Redirection"]
G --> H["Physical Movement & Pacing"]
G --> I["Instrumental Practice (Violin)"]
G --> J["Reflective & Philosophical Writing"]
H & I & J --> K["Emotional Resolution & Personal Elevation"]
end
```
---
[11:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=676s) The "Bird in Hand" Metaphor and Satie’s *Vexations*
The discussion transitions to the painful dynamics of letting go, anchored by an earnest piece of folk philosophy once offered by a partner: "If you're holding a bird in your hand, you should let go and let it fly. It might fly back after it leaves, but if you hold onto it like this, it's suffocating." While people often chuckle at such relationship clichés in retrospect, the panel agrees that heartbreak is not a trivial joke but a fundamental livelihood issue that shatters a person's core. Dou Wentao reflects on the profound empathy he feels toward the brokenhearted, recalling the French avant-garde composer Erik Satie, whose eccentricities were deeply shaped by romantic devastation. Satie composed a notorious short piano piece titled *Vexations*, which spans barely a minute of music but includes an explicit performance instruction: the theme must be repeated 840 times consecutively.
This marathon of repetition creates an auditory trance; performers and listeners have noted that after roughly three to four hours—or by the 300th cycle—the mind begins hallucinating sacred, hymn-like overtones out of the monotonous acoustic loop. Satie channeled through *Vexations* a specific emotional condition best described as "chilling loneliness" (彻骨的孤独). The participants relate this to the universal agony of the morning after a devastating separation: the precise moment of awakening, when for a brief, deceptive few seconds the conscious mind still assumes the beloved partner is sleeping right beside them. Then, the full reality of abandonment crashes in, bringing a paralyzing void that can render people incapable of functioning for months or years.
- **The Myth of the Clinging Partner**: Grand demonstrations of enduring suffering—such as tracking down an ex or walking all night to their door—typically generate repulsion rather than rekindled romance.
- **Erik Satie’s *Vexations***: A one-page musical score designated to be played 840 times in succession, translating personal heartbreak into a grueling, surreal acoustic manifestation of chilled isolation.
- **The Morning Awakening Phenomenon**: The split-second cognitive lag upon opening one's eyes after a fresh breakup, where the memory of loss hasn't yet caught up to reality, followed instantly by overwhelming grief.
---
[13:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=822s) The Trauma Defense Mechanism and Criminal Retaliation
Following such devastating grief, a person's psychological architecture is permanently altered. To prevent future emotional collapse, the psyche constructs a protective defense mechanism: an absolute vow never again to place one's happiness entirely upon the presence of another human being. While this self-reliance offers survival, peers often view it as a tragic condition, remarking that once a person adopts this armor, they become incapable of unreserved vulnerability or wholehearted commitment. Li Meijin grounds this observation by sharing a chilling criminal case from her career in psychological assessment and behavioral analysis. At university entrance, a student had achieved an exceptionally high mental health profile—scoring 25 or 26 on a standardized metric where 21 represented the baseline norm. Because of his outstanding character and academic performance, he was retained after graduation to serve as a counselor and class advisor.
During his tenure, the counselor entered into a romantic relationship with an undergraduate under his care, spending several years together. However, upon the girl's graduation, her father insisted she return to their distant hometown, prompting her to end the romance. Incapable of reconciling with the abandonment, the former counselor arranged a final farewell meeting, lured the young woman to a hotel room, incapacitated her with an anesthetic, and murdered her. Li Meijin emphasizes that this tragic outcome illustrates the anatomy of retaliatory crimes (报复性犯罪). The ancient legal adage "crimes of passion have long existed" (自古奸情出人命) highlights how acute romantic rejection frequently triggers lethal violence. These retaliatory crimes systematically fall into three domestic patterns:
1. Retaliation perpetrated by a woman following a bitter abandonment.
2. Retaliation enacted by an entitled or possessive man after being dumped.
3. Violent retribution stemming from marital infidelities and third-party entanglements.
---
[16:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=961s) The "Clothes Shopping" Philosophy of Dating and Sublimation
To prevent young people from falling into fatalistic fixation, Li Meijin shares the practical dating philosophy she instills in her students and shared with her own children during their teenage years. She insists that love is often merely a transient subjective sensation rather than an ultimate, unchangeable reality. When people list their ideal romantic criteria—demanding a partner who is striking, gentle, fair-skinned, or refined—they must recognize that these traits describe an entire *category* of human beings, not a singular, irreplaceable individual. She illustrates this through the metaphor of shopping for clothes: one may enter a boutique, fall in love with a particular garment, and feel an urge to buy it immediately; however, if one continues walking past other racks, they will inevitably discover another piece that fits even better. Dating requires patience and broad observation; it makes no sense for unmarried youths to "hang themselves from a single tree" when even married couples trapped in dysfunctional unions manage to navigate their lives.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: The Category vs. Individual Dating Model
accDescr: Metaphorical progression illustrating Li Meijin's clothes shopping dating philosophy.
A["Desire for Ideal Partner"] --> B["Defined Criteria<br>(Appearance, Temperament, Values)"]
B --> C["Broad Demographic Category<br>(Multiple Matching Individuals)"]
C --> D["Exploration & Observation<br>('Shopping Down the Rack')"]
D --> E["Mature, Non-Fixated Selection"]
```
The discussion turns to Liang Wendao, who is jokingly called out for seeming outwardly "heartless" and unflappable. Wendao counters that he has suffered through numerous breakups, but because each person he loved belonged to a completely different type, every heartbreak became a portal for radical self-education and positive personal transformation. Rather than descending into possessive anguish, he sublimated romantic distress into acquiring new technical and creative skills. In one instance, he channeled the ache of a breakup by picking up the violin, sawing away at the strings until the visceral physical exertion dissolved the heaviness in his chest. As he matured, this sublimation shifted into intellectual inquiry: after every emotional rupture, he committed himself to rigorous writing. By transforming raw personal sorrow into analytical essays exploring broader cultural, social, and semi-philosophical questions, he discovered genuine intellectual joy, realizing that when personal misery is translated into universal problems of human existence, all suffering can ultimately be dissected, understood, and resolved.
[18:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1125s) The Silver Lining of Emotional Distress and Healthy Breakups
The conversation shifts toward the pragmatic side of emotional pain, specifically how heartbreak can inadvertently lead to weight loss because one becomes too distressed to eat or drink. The speakers explore whether emotional distress is a universal human struggle, prompting a lighthearted debate about whether anyone truly escapes sobbing in the middle of the night. While one participant claims to have "never, not once" sobbed, others joke that this makes them "truly heartless."
This leads into a discussion on how different people handle breakups. One speaker shares her experience of being dumped by someone who felt unready for a long-term commitment like marriage. Because both were Capricorns prone to overthinking, they calmly sat down and discussed future incompatibilities, leading her to sincerely appreciate his honesty and view the breakup as entirely healthy. The group contrasts this mature, pragmatic approach with the intense pain others experience when relationships unravel.
[20:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1237s) Redefining Love, Attachment, and Possession
The discussion deepens into an philosophical exploration of what "falling in love" actually means. A speaker distinguishes between common affection and rare "attachment" (恋), suggesting that true attachment represents a profound, lifelong bond that does not necessarily have to end in marriage. Conversely, casual dating is compared to making friends—a lower-stakes relationship where, if things do not work out, the friendship remains intact.
The speakers also analyze the psychological illusion of possession in romance, comparing it to the impulse of buying jewelry or coveted items: once you acquire them, the thrill fades, and they may even become useless. To illustrate how people cope with devastating losses—such as the tragic death of a pet—a speaker shares a personal anecdote about replacing a beloved puppy immediately, noting that holding a new puppy instantly revived feelings of warmth and helped alleviate the grief.
[23:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1389s) The Aftermath of Breakups and an Absurd Tale of Performative Despair
The group debates whether former partners can genuinely remain friends after a breakup. One speaker firmly rejects the idea, explaining that maintaining contact feels unnatural and pointless when both parties know the uncomfortable truth. Another suggests that time heals, making friendship possible only after many years have passed.
Transitioning from heartbreak to extreme emotional reactions, a speaker shares a bizarre, darkly humorous news story about a man in a rural village who faced severe distress after a failed engagement and the loss of a 200,000 yuan dowry. Seeking internet attention through a dramatic, performative suicide attempt, the man climbed into a traditional large iron pot outdoors in the early spring, lit firewood underneath, and prepared to "boil" himself. However, because the spring air was freezing and the pot conducted heat slowly with insufficient firewood, the experience turned unexpectedly comfortable—resembling a Japanese snow hot spring or a relaxing sauna. After lying in the warm pot for two hours, the man emerged completely unharmed, laughing about the ordeal and posting photos online, leaving the panel amused by the absurdity of the event.
[27:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1655s) Heartbreak as a Physical Pathology and Dou Wentao’s Confidante
Reflecting on personal hardship, Dou Wentao revisits a past romantic breakup that plunged him into what felt like "hellish pain." He describes severe heartbreak not merely as a sentimental sadness, but as an acute, quasi-medical condition. At its peak, the grief manifested as an authentic, physical ache directly inside the chest—a heart-wrenching pressure so intense that it left him struggling to draw breath. Desperate for relief, he reached out to a close female confidante who possessed the hard-earned wisdom of someone who had survived deep emotional turbulence herself.
Instead of offering shallow platitudes, his friend diagnosed the condition with calm, steady realism. She acknowledged the sheer depth of his suffering, assuring him: "I know, I know you are in immense pain right now... no matter what we say, it won't take your pain away." Her prescription was purely temporal: "Wentao, but you must listen to me: time. It’s just about enduring the time; there is no other way." She urged him to hold onto faith that whether it took one, two, or three months, the agony would pass until he could look back and tell the story like a joke. They ended up speaking every single day. Only later did Wentao discover the secret behind her profound empathy: she was going through a painful breakup of her own at the very same moment, turning their daily phone calls into mutual lifelines.
[29:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1773s) The Trap of Social Media: Digital Surveillance and Reopening Wounds
The panel contrasts the natural healing process of the past with the unique torture of modern breakups, where digital technology keeps emotional wounds perpetually open. In earlier eras, parting ways meant a clean physical break, but today’s ubiquitous digital footprint traps people in cycles of self-inflicted surveillance. One guest admits to having obsessively tracked an ex after separating—scrolling through their Weibo updates, refreshing their profile feeds, and even scrutinizing music streaming apps to examine what songs they were listening to and at what hours, desperately wondering if the choices signaled lingering regret or nostalgia.
This continuous exposure acts like rubbing salt or setting fire to an unhealed scar. Instead of moving forward, the grieving partner repeatedly triggers their own distress until a catastrophic revelation occurs, such as seeing a photo announcing an engagement or a new partner. Shared technological ecosystems exacerbate this boundary failure; couples frequently remain linked on social platforms or continue sharing iCloud accounts where newly captured photos sync automatically to each other’s devices, creating a relentless stream of emotional stimulation that makes true closure nearly impossible.
[30:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1846s) Professor Li Meijin’s Three Questions: Reframing a Bitter Custody Dispute
Professor Li Meijin shares a harrowing case from her consulting career involving a 28-year-old woman who had built a life with her college classmate. After graduation, the couple migrated to a new city, successfully established an enterprise, and had a son. The marriage unraveled when the husband became involved with his secretary, spending less and less time at home until a divorce became inevitable. While the mother secured custody of the child, the husband retained the company and major financial assets. Resentful over the perceived injustice, the mother launched further litigation in the child’s name. In retaliation, the ex-husband abducted the boy during a routine scheduled visitation, liquidated the entire business, and vanished without a trace.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Li Meijin Cognitive Reframing Model
accDescr: Contrasting conventional legal retaliation with Li Meijin's psychological reframing for long-term recovery.
subgraph Trap["Conventional Confrontation Trap"]
A["Disappearance & Retaliation"] --> B["Endless Litigation & Manhunt"]
B --> C["Child Caught in Crossfire"]
C --> D["Decades of Bitterness Consumed"]
end
subgraph Healing["Li Meijin's Three-Question Reframing"]
E["Question 1: Past Independence<br/>20 of 28 years lived well without him"] --> F["Question 2: Internal Reflection<br/>Analyze relationship breakdown objectively"]
F --> G["Question 3: Future Outlook<br/>Prioritize next 40 to 50 years of life"]
G --> H["Outcome: Rebuild self-worth & live better"]
end
```
Left with no company, no money, and no trace of her child, the distraught mother approached a newspaper to coordinate a public search campaign. A panel of sociologists, legal scholars, and attorneys offered tactical measures such as freezing accounts and mobilizing authorities. Observing the woman’s fragile demeanor, Professor Li chose not to provide tactical instructions, but rather introduced three cognitive reframing questions:
- **Perspective of Past Independence:** "You are 28 years old now. You've known him for eight years, which means for 20 of those 28 years, this person wasn't in your life. Did you live well, or were you able to live?" The woman acknowledged that she had.
- **Critical Self-Reflection:** Despite co-founding a successful company and having a child, the union collapsed. Li urged her to analyze what went wrong internally rather than remaining purely in reactive victimhood, warning that unexamined grief keeps the pain unresolved.
- **Evaluating the Next 40 to 50 Years:** Assuming a lifespan of 70 or 80, the woman faced decades ahead. Li challenged her to consider the realistic outcome of an exhaustive manhunt: continuous lawsuits, mutual destruction, and a child torn apart by hostility.
Li advised her to cut the endless cycle of suffering immediately and redirect her energy toward rebuilding an independent life, summarizing the ultimate goal: "make it so that if you ever see me again, I’m living better than I was when I was with you."
[34:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=2050s) Normalizing Unrequited Love: The Psychologist’s Dining Hall Experiment
The discussion turns to how young people can navigate intense romantic obsessions, highlighting the crucial role of sensible older mentors. Professor Li illustrates this with the psychological treatment of a college student paralyzed by an unrequited crush. Too timid to confess his feelings, the student followed the woman everywhere—attending all her lectures and sitting at contorted angles just to watch her. Terrified that his behavior made him a "pervert" with a mental illness, he sought psychological counseling in utter despair.
Instead of lecturing the student, the psychologist escorted him directly to the entrance of the campus dining hall to conduct a spontaneous field experiment. The doctor stopped three random passersby to ask their opinion on the boy's behavior:
- **The Elder's View:** An older gentleman responded with classical wisdom, quoting the *Classic of Poetry* (*Shijing*): "A fair lady, a gentleman's choice" (窈窕淑女，君子好逑), reassuring the student that his feelings were completely normal for his age.
- **The Male Peer's View:** A young male student chuckled and admitted that young men are always studying pretty girls and finding it hard to approach them, validating that the struggle is universal.
- **The Young Woman's View:** A young female student dismissed the shame entirely, asking: "What era is this? Love however you want to love, just be bold."
By exposing the student to broad societal consensus, the psychologist dismantled the young man's internal shame, demonstrating that his intense longing was neither abnormal nor deviant, and rescuing him from a downward spiral of private misery.
[36:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=2208s) Seeking Help and Perspective in Heartbreak
The speakers discuss the emotional vulnerability of romantic distress, noting that people should never be ashamed to ask for help when facing a crisis in their heart. Sharing a personal anecdote, one speaker recalls comforting a friend through a painful divorce years earlier. Later, during their own deep pain, they reached out to that same friend to ask how he felt now. The friend's simple reassurance—saying "It's fine, I don't even think about her now; she's completely out of my mind" after previously crying his eyes out—brought immense comfort, much like knowing that the pain following surgery will inevitably get better with time.
Transitioning to a broader societal context, the conversation explores how heartbreak differs in the internet age. With constant connectivity and social tools, individuals struggle to cut ties or step away. Furthermore, many people tie their sense of self directly to their online persona, turning their suffering into a performative broadcast akin to livestreaming. When egos become too inflated, outside help cannot get in, highlighting the vital need for alternative perspectives—such as the wisdom of time or an age-gap friendship with someone roughly ten years older who has already navigated similar life hurdles.
- Emphasizes the psychological parallel between emotional healing and surgical recovery, where knowing time heals makes the pain endurable.
- Highlights how modern social tools and online personas can turn personal heartbreak into a performative spectacle.
- Suggests seeking friendships with individuals about ten years older to gain valuable perspective from someone who has lived through similar challenges.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
subgraph Challenge ["The Trap of Modern Heartbreak"]
A["Heartbreak in the Internet Age"] --> B["Performative Suffering & Online Persona"]
B --> C["Inflated Ego Blocks Outside Help"]
end
subgraph Solution ["The Path to Healing"]
A --> D["Seeking Help & Asking Friends"]
D --> E["Gaining Perspective from Older Mentors"]
E --> F["Realizing Time Heals All Wounds"]
end
accTitle: The Dynamics of Heartbreak and Healing in the Digital Age
accDescr: A flowchart contrasting the modern digital pitfalls of heartbreak with constructive methods for healing through perspective and time.
```
[40:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=2409s) Obsession, Childhood Roots, and Independent Identity
The discussion turns to obsessive attachments and extreme reactions to heartbreak, referencing Hollywood comedian Jim Carrey whose former girlfriend tragically died by suicide after their turbulent three-year relationship, leaving a note expressing exhaustion. This extreme attachment reflects a deeper psychological deformity where someone pins their entire existence on another person, convinced they can never find anyone better or experience love again. Such vulnerability often stems from early childhood backgrounds—such as growing up without a father—leading to premature dating and a distorted attachment style where a partner's presence becomes the sole proof of one's own existence.
True maturity, the speakers argue, lies in developing the confidence to be alone, recognizing that everyone enters and leaves the world by themselves. A healthy marriage functions more like a family relationship rather than a state of perpetual, mad infatuation, which is merely a fleeting feeling rather than reality. Real life is found in quiet companionship, such as two people sitting together reading newspapers in silence. While one speaker humorously confesses to enjoying the intoxicating, sleepless turmoil of crazy infatuation—noting that intense romantic obsession and witnessing close death are two powerful catalysts for sudden self-discovery—they ultimately agree that resolving these crises requires overcoming underlying narcissism and the devastating blow to self-confidence.
- Examines extreme emotional dependency, noting how unresolved childhood attachment issues can make a partner feel like the sole anchor of one's existence.
- Contrasts the exhausting performance of "mad infatuation" with the quiet, sustainable reality of a mature family-like marriage.
- Notes that intense infatuation and experiencing close loss are rare, powerful catalysts for sudden personal growth and self-awareness.
[44:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=2654s) The Devastating Impact of Middle-Aged Heartbreak
Middle-aged heartbreak carries a uniquely complex and devastating weight that often surpasses youth's suffering, often triggering a complete life collapse akin to a "nuclear explosion." Citing Wang Shuo's novels, the speakers explain that a major breakdown in middle age reminds individuals of all their past accumulated breakdowns. At this stage of life, people frequently grapple with mid-life crises: doubting their past, losing faith in the future, worrying about insufficient retirement funds, facing job obsolescence, and watching younger generations surpass them.
Under these immense pressures, a romantic relationship often becomes a middle-aged person's last lifeline and final anchor. When that anchor vanishes, it destroys their remaining confidence, leading to profound despair. The conversation connects this phenomenon to psychoanalytic theories by Freud, noting that extreme symptoms like jealousy delusions are often internal projections used as desperate mechanisms for self-comfort.
- Highlights how middle-aged heartbreak intertwines with financial anxiety, career obsolescence, and doubts about the future to cause total psychological collapse.
- Explains that relationships often serve as the ultimate lifeline and anchor for middle-aged individuals facing a mid-life crisis.
- References Freud's psychoanalytic theories regarding jealousy delusions as internal projections functioning as desperate forms of self-comfort.
[55:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=3348s) Letting Go, Children, and the Complexity of Marital Misery
The discussion opens with a reflection on how futile it is to exhaust oneself over things outside one's control. Worrying incessantly about what has not yet occurred is simply not worth the emotional toll, and obsessing over past events that cannot be rewritten is equally wasteful. The speakers turn to examine troubled partnerships from a different perspective: a healthy union requires reciprocal joy—seeing the other person happy makes you happy, and vice versa. However, when one partner's happiness exists alongside the other's sheer misery, being bound together turns into mutual torment. In circumstances where shared life has degraded into distress, holding on tightly causes far more damage than choosing to let go.
A crucial boundary is drawn around whether or not children are involved. If a couple has brought a child into the world, the moral calculus changes completely. The child was brought into existence without giving consent, creating an absolute parental duty; parents cannot simply walk away on a whim saying "I’m done with this" and split up. For the child's sake, parents ought to make every effort to sustain the unit until the children have reached near adulthood. Yet, if there are no children, an unhappy couple should not force prolonged suffering. True love, in its mature form, requires acceptance: acknowledging that "I really love you, I love you so much, so if you feel you’ll be happier without me, then I will let you leave," even if that means bearing the pain alone ("I'd rather suffer through it myself").
When one partner no longer loves the other and the rejected party responds by creating constant drama, both lives become unbearable under the same roof. This dynamic explains why domestic violence and chronic hostility are so devastating: the partners are trapped together in an intimate shared space day after day, subjecting each other to ongoing emotional or physical abuse. Marriage is inherently fragile and fraught—spouses are deeply intertwined, making them uniquely vulnerable to devastating wounds. Rather than languishing in agony, the couple must confront the truth through honest communication. Even in the face of an affair or a third party, clear answers must be sought: does the straying partner regret it, do they genuinely love the new person, or are there lingering feelings for the spouse? If love remains, forgiveness is possible; if the emotional bond is truly broken, letting go paves the way for both individuals to find broader life opportunities rather than mutually self-destructing.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Navigating Marital Conflict and Resolution
accDescr: Decision pathway outlining actions based on children, emotional reciprocity, and open communication.
Start["Marital Discord / Unhappiness"] --> KidsCheck{"Are there children involved?"}
KidsCheck -->|"Yes"| PreserveDuty["Fulfill parental obligation<br/>Stay and sustain family until adulthood"]
KidsCheck -->|"No"| HeartCheck{"Can happiness be shared?"}
HeartCheck -->|"Both miserable / unloving"| HonestConvo["Open, direct dialogue<br/>Clarify genuine feelings"]
HonestConvo --> RegretCheck{"Does love still remain?"}
RegretCheck -->|"Still loves spouse"| Reconcile["Forgiveness & reconciliation"]
RegretCheck -->|"In love with third party / over"| Release["Graceful release & letting go<br/>Preserve dignity and seek new path"]
```
[57:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=3476s) The Haunting Cost of Vengeance and Choosing Peaceful Parting
To illustrate the horrifying extremes of marital vindictiveness, a speaker recounts what they describe as the most tragic divorce story they had ever encountered. It involved an ill-matched couple: an educated husband and a wife who worked as an ordinary factory laborer. In time, the husband fell in love with a woman of similar background and intellectual compatibility. Unable to bear the rejection and heartbreak, the wife resorted to an unfathomable act of retaliation: one day, she fed sleeping pills to her twin children, took the pills herself, and set their home on fire, killing all three of them in the blaze.
Although the husband eventually married the woman he had fallen in love with, the devastation obliterated any chance of genuine joy. His new wife later shared that living with him felt like living with a lifeless "stone wall"—he had become completely emotionally shut down and hardened by trauma. Even if the original wife intended to punish the straying husband and the other woman, the horrific price paid by innocent children and herself demonstrated the total vanity and tragedy of destructive revenge. When a relationship turns toxic, poisoning everyone involved in an effort to inflict retribution brings zero solace.
Echoing an earlier point raised by Jiang Fangzhou, the panel agrees that the healthiest approach to irreconcilable differences is straightforward dialogue. Instead of harboring vindictive fury, partners should communicate honestly and directly: if affection has run out, it is far better to part gracefully, accept the reality of the situation, and perhaps even remain friends moving forward, opening the door to a peaceful and dignified next chapter.
- **Tragic Case Study**: A factory-worker wife murdered her twin children and committed suicide by arson after her educated husband fell in love with another woman; the husband's subsequent marriage was hollowed out, leaving him an emotionally numb "stone wall."
- **Core Realization**: Inflicting extreme punishment on an unfaithful partner ultimately destroys the self and innocents without producing happiness or vindication.
- **Jiang Fangzhou's Approach**: Honest confrontation, verbalizing feelings clearly, accepting the end of romantic attachment, and smoothly transitioning into friendship rather than mutual destruction.
> [11:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=676s) If you're holding a bird in your hand, you should let go and let it fly. It might fly back after it leaves, but if you hold onto it like this, it's suffocating.
> [27:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1655s) Wentao, but you must listen to me: time. It’s just about enduring the time; there is no other way. — 窦文涛的女性好友
> [30:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1846s) You are 28 years old now. You've known him for eight years, which means for 20 of those 28 years, this person wasn't in your life. Did you live well, or were you able to live? — 李玫瑾
> [30:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rcdL7foBc&t=1846s) make it so that if you ever see me again, I’m living better than I was when I was with you. — 李玫瑾
[7:59] 梁文道: 如果你真的去死，我愿意拿命陪你一起死，但我绝不可能跟你复合。
[11:16] If you're holding a bird in your hand, you should let go and let it fly. It might fly back after it leaves, but if you hold onto it like this, it's suffocating.
[13:42] 李玫瑾: 自古奸情出人命
[27:35] 窦文涛的女性好友: Wentao, but you must listen to me: time. It’s just about enduring the time; there is no other way.
[30:46] 李玫瑾: You are 28 years old now. You've known him for eight years, which means for 20 of those 28 years, this person wasn't in your life. Did you live well, or were you able to live?
[30:46] 李玫瑾: make it so that if you ever see me again, I’m living better than I was when I was with you.
[34:10] 老先生: 窈窕淑女，君子好逑
[34:10] 女大学生: What era is this? Love however you want to love, just be bold.
[46:25] 就因为你窝囊、没钱、没房、没车、没有前途，我才跟你分手
[48:01] 李玫瑾: 我不占你便宜
[48:01] 四川木匠: 要结婚可以，把钱还我
[52:28] 我已经陪了他五年，现在分手，那这五年不就全打水漂了吗？
[52:28] 过去心不可得，现在心不可得，未来心不可得
Original transcript
[0:00] For example, I once held the view that
[0:02] you shouldn't underestimate divorce.
[0:03] Divorce has a huge impact on people's
[0:06] livelihoods and national welfare; think
[0:08] about how many resources it consumes.
[0:10] Now, let's talk about this.
[0:12] Breakups, right? I just realized,
[0:14] Does that also affect national welfare?
[0:16] Oh, it impacts the minds of an entire
[0:18] generation of young people. You have no
[0:20] idea how painful a breakup can be; it
[0:21] shouldn't be taken lightly. Hey, it’s
[0:23] like you’ve all never had your hearts
[0:25] broken. Fangzhou, you go first, right?
[0:27] Wasn't it painful when you went through
[0:29] a breakup? I was okay. The last time I
[0:32] had a breakup, the other person used
[0:34] the silent treatment, and afterwards
[0:36] asked a friend to tell me they didn't
[0:37] want to continue the relationship. I
[0:41] said fine, but I kept thinking about it
[0:43] ; I couldn't let it go, could I? So I
[0:47] wrote "petition letters" to him, then
[0:49] went to see him in person, and only
[0:51] when I got the final reason did I
[0:53] finally feel at peace. For two whole
[0:57] months, I was really struggling with
[0:59] why it happened, completely unable to
[1:01] do or think about anything else.
[1:04] Professor Li, you mentioned preventing
[1:07] teenagers from...Are there teenagers,
[1:09] surely there must be, who haven't
[1:11] handled breakups well?
[1:12] Yes.
[1:13] And ended up turning to crime? That’s
[1:15] too heavy. I think, just like what
[1:18] Fangzhou said, everyone has experienced
[1:20] a breakup. It's just that when you're
[1:24] in the middle of it, you feel
[1:25] incredibly painful and don't know what
[1:27] to do.
[1:29] But when you look back on it, you
[1:31] realize it was actually a quite
[1:32] endearing time of life, right?
[1:34] Yeah.
[1:35] I think a breakup is actually a very
[1:37] important part of the maturing process
[1:39] in life.
[1:39] Yeah. Look, aren't we talking about
[1:42] this? Even someone as strong as him
[1:45] once admitted in an article—
[1:48] In college, because of some girlfriend,
[1:50] maybe someone with the surname Luo, or
[1:52] simply losing his girlfriend—
[1:54] He took sleeping pills. Yeah.
[1:57] I’ve seen research questioning
[1:59] whether he did it once or three times,
[2:01] but regardless, some have
[2:03] psychologically analyzed that if people
[2:05] go through this level of heartbreak at
[2:07] a young age,
[2:10] It sometimes affects how they view
[2:12] women and their future patterns in
[2:13] relationships. Do you think there’s
[2:15] any truth to that?
[2:16] It’s possible. It’s possible, but I
[2:19] think the first time is just that
[2:20] initial relationships are particularly
[2:22] prone to breakups. Why is that? Take a
[2:24] child's growth process, for example.
[2:26] When they're young, there's a toy they
[2:28] really want, and once they get it, they
[2:29] fear others might take it away, mm. So,
[2:31] when they grow to a certain age and
[2:32] take a fancy to someone, this person
[2:34] becomes, in their heart, that favorite
[2:36] toy.
[2:37] Toy.
[2:37] So at that moment, they really want to
[2:39] possess them, yet they don't truly
[2:40] understand the other person.
[2:42] That’s why many people's first loves
[2:43] are often unsuccessful.
[2:44] So, I think heartbreak is a process of
[2:46] maturation. When you realize they are
[2:48] an independent person, you cannot
[2:50] influence them; you can only express
[2:52] your affection. As for whether the
[2:54] other party accepts it,
[2:55] it takes time. I think some people
[2:57] mature through this process, but others
[2:59] , on the contrary, develop hatred
[3:01] during it.
[3:01] Mm.
[3:02] Because after they fail, they feel they
[3:04] are worthless.
[3:05] So I believe many people who struggle
[3:07] to move on during heartbreak often
[3:09] haven't fully matured themselves.
[3:12] Then how do you prevent it? How do you
[3:14] guard against it? That...
[3:16] I think "preventing" is a bit early.
[3:18] It's about this process; there are two
[3:20] issues, really, about mental health—
[3:22] one is having friends.
[3:24] Mm.
[3:25] When you have friends, in such
[3:26] situations, perhaps a few words from a
[3:28] friend can pull you out of it, right? I
[3:31] feel that love is...just at the
[3:32] beginning, it's...
[3:34] I feel like a few words won't pull you
[3:36] out. I really...I find it strange how
[3:39] you all seem to take heartbreak so
[3:41] lightly. Based on my own experience,
[3:45] I feel that what I call heartbreak
[3:47] isn't like what Teacher Li says, where
[3:49] you become mature and have an objective
[3:51] view of it. For example, I remember my,
[3:54] let's call it a first love, my college
[3:57] first love,
[3:58] I was actually scared by myself at the
[4:00] time.
[4:00] Mm.
[4:00] I couldn't get over it.
[4:01] Mm.
[4:02] I really couldn't get over it. You know
[4:05] , this inability to move on made me
[4:07] become something...you would think I
[4:09] was a lunatic. A lunatic, exactly.
[4:12] I remember, did you walk?
[4:13] Yes. I was...
[4:15] Self-torture?
[4:16] Self-torture.
[4:17] I mean, I only took 80 yuan with me, I
[4:19] only took 80 yuan.
[4:20] I saw the travelers...when winter break
[4:22] started, in college, during winter
[4:24] break, I just started walking. I didn't
[4:26] know the direction at first; I said I
[4:28] wanted to go to Western Hubei, to the
[4:30] Enshi Tujia and Miao Autonomous
[4:32] Prefecture. Did you just walk and
[4:34] forget everything else?
[4:35] He started from Wuhan.
[4:36] It actually turned into a form of
[4:38] self-torture. I insisted on walking
[4:41] through the mountains and waters, even
[4:43] staying in a Tujia farmer's house to
[4:45] spend the Spring Festival there. That
[4:48] year, the Spring Festival Gala featured
[4:51] that song, "Gui lai ba, gui lai yo,"
[4:53] that "Clouds of Hometown" song. I
[4:55] remember walking on the road, listening
[4:57] to it, and my eyes welled up with tears
[4:59] . Then I kept walking until I finally
[5:00] reached Hunan.
[5:01] I walked to Zhangjiajie back when it
[5:02] was still completely undeveloped.
[5:04] Finally, I walked to Fenghuang and
[5:05] reached the former residence of Shen
[5:07] Congwen.
[5:08] Eventually, I reached Huaihua, and then
[5:10] I realized...
[5:10] You had become a part of the "migrant
[5:12] vagrant" army of that era.
[5:13] Exactly. No, this was actually the best
[5:16] way to process it.
[5:17] He at least got out. If he had stayed
[5:21] indoors drinking his sorrows away, he
[5:23] would have truly been ruined.
[5:26] But it wasn't until the end that I
[5:28] realized the destination. I walked from
[5:30] Hunan to Changsha because my
[5:32] girlfriend's home was in Changsha at
[5:34] the time.
[5:34] Right.
[5:35] In a way, fate was...
[5:37] Subconsciously, it was to...
[5:39] To go find her, you know? And that
[5:42] wasn't the end of it. That was during
[5:44] winter break. When the semester started
[5:46] , the president of Wuhan University was
[5:48] Liu Daoyu. Students had a very high
[5:50] opinion of him, and President Liu
[5:52] Daoyu’s educational approach was very
[5:54] liberal. For instance, teachers
[5:55] wouldn't take attendance in class; it
[5:58] was all based on earning credits. So
[6:00] back then, many of us students would be
[6:02] away from campus for months at a time,
[6:04] off doing internships.
[6:05] I remember that as soon as the semester
[6:07] began...
[6:08] Ah, I saw this female classmate again.
[6:10] I couldn't even bring myself to look at
[6:12] her, I really couldn't. So I left again
[6:14] . And this time? I took a boat to Wuhan
[6:18] . I went up Mount Lushan for the first
[6:21] time by myself. I just went up there to
[6:24] get it all out of my system. I remember
[6:28] I was wearing my clothes, and the heavy
[6:30] rain on Mount Lushan soaked me through
[6:32] completely. Finally, I came back to
[6:35] Jiujiang. Walking down the street in
[6:38] Jiujiang with the sun beating down on
[6:40] me, people were staring, wondering if I
[6:42] was a chimney, as I was steaming and
[6:44] letting off white vapor. Why did I say
[6:47] I scared myself, Teacher Li? It’s
[6:51] because I finally realized that if you
[6:53] lose a girl you love, it could unleash
[6:55] such a massive......
[6:58] this crazy, powerful force within me. I
[7:00] believe it really had an impact on me.
[7:02] While you were going through that
[7:04] process, what problem were you trying
[7:05] to solve? Were you chewing on that
[7:07] bitterness, or were you ruminating on
[7:09] it? Or were you hoping to let them know
[7:11] and touch their heart?
[7:12] You put that very well, it’s
[7:14] insightful.
[7:16] Oh, I remember going through this
[7:17] ordeal,
[7:18] and in the end, they knew.
[7:20] Actually, they didn't know; after I
[7:22] finally went through that hardship, I
[7:24] returned to Wuhan University and stood
[7:26] for a long time in front of that
[7:28] dormitory window,
[7:29] staring at the desk lamp.
[7:31] Yes, I had returned. Until that lamp
[7:34] finally went out.
[7:35] It’s a struggle; you just can’t get
[7:37] past it, you just can’t. That’s why
[7:41] , when I hear many young people talk
[7:43] about this, I feel it’s a problem
[7:45] bigger than the world itself—during
[7:47] that time, some people need half a year
[7:50] .
[7:51] Mm.
[7:51] Mm.
[7:52] Some people need three months.
[7:53] Mm.
[7:54] And as you said, some people even
[7:56] commit suicide.
[7:56] Mm.
[7:57] True.
[7:57] They just can’t move past it.
[7:59] Haven’t you had such an experience,
[8:00] Wendao?
[8:01] I have, I have—how could I not? But
[8:03] it wasn't as severe as yours. Sorry,
[8:05] just now, while listening, I couldn't
[8:07] help but laugh. I was thinking that if
[8:08] the girl found out in the end, I don't
[8:10] think she would be moved; she would
[8:12] probably say, "Oh, thank goodness I
[8:14] left.""He's a lunatic." I think there
[8:17] is another layer to some of these
[8:18] suicides; it’s not just that they
[8:20] can’t get past it. Sometimes, you
[8:23] actually hope your death will punish
[8:24] the other person. I once had an
[8:27] experience like that, where I was on
[8:29] the phone breaking up with someone, and
[8:31] we talked for seven hours, it was
[8:32] really...even...
[8:34] Was she the one wanting to break up
[8:35] with you? No, I was the one breaking up
[8:38] with her, and she said, "I'm on our
[8:39] balcony right now, I'm dropping a wine
[8:41] bottle, and as I watch it shatter, I'm
[8:43] thinking of myself." She hadn't
[8:46] finished, and I said, "If you're going
[8:47] to die, I'll give my life with you, but
[8:49] I won't, I won't get back together with
[8:51] you." I felt...because I thought she
[8:54] seemed to hope that she could use her
[8:56] death to...yes, or perhaps she wanted
[8:57] to leave some kind of mark on my life.
[9:00] Then she finally said, "Let's do this,
[9:01] we count 3, 2, 1, and after hanging up,
[9:03] we'll completely block each other and
[9:05] never contact one another again." I
[9:07] said, "Fine," then we counted 3, 2, 1,
[9:10] and really hung up. She called back and
[9:12] said, "Hey, did you hang up because you
[9:14] lost signal?" Then I was very cowardly
[9:16] and said, "Yeah, I lost signal, lost
[9:18] signal." And then we ended up talking
[9:20] for a long time again. But I must say,
[9:22] I feel that when I dump someone, the
[9:23] pain of hurting another person is no
[9:25] less than the pain felt by the one
[9:27] being hurt. Because when you break up,
[9:30] I think proposing a breakup is
[9:31] essentially like shooting someone who
[9:33] is unarmed. No one ever thinks about
[9:36] how the experience of dumping someone
[9:38] causes great psychological harm to the
[9:40] dumper. It’s not just the person
[9:42] being dumped who feels hurt; the recoil
[9:44] of that pain back onto the dumper can
[9:46] be terrifying.
[9:47] Do you do the dumping more, or do you
[9:49] get dumped more?
[9:50] I do the dumping more. Yes, I do the
[9:52] dumping more.
[9:53] You're so lovely, surely many people
[9:55] like you.
[9:56] It’s just that, you know, life has
[9:58] many emotional hurdles.
[10:00] Mm.
[10:01] What should someone do if they can’t
[10:02] get past them?
[10:03] Mm. I think this might be because you
[10:06] literature types have more of that
[10:08] sentimental nature. Mm.
[10:10] Maybe it's because I studied philosophy
[10:12] , so...
[10:13] Have you never practiced love?
[10:14] I, I haven't. I’ve only truly loved
[10:16] one person, but it didn't work out, so
[10:18] I proactively stepped away. Because I
[10:20] am very rational here; once I compare
[10:22] things, I feel—I don’t know why—
[10:24] but I’m extremely rational about this
[10:26] issue. I feel I must find someone with
[10:28] a background similar to mine; I cannot
[10:30] look for someone "higher" than me.
[10:32] So, it was a choice. Of course, I also
[10:35] had one time I did the dumping.
[10:36] Listening to you now, I recall one time
[10:38] I was quite ruthless, which probably
[10:39] caused the other person a lot of pain,
[10:41] but I just felt that if it wasn't going
[10:43] to work, I had to move on and cut it
[10:44] off immediately in my heart. However, I
[10:46] personally think your method just now
[10:48] was already a very good one. Because in
[10:51] the process of walking, first,
[10:53] You have a certain transmission through
[10:55] your nervous system. Mm.
[10:57] You are moving, right, you keep walking
[10:59] , so your emotions have actually
[11:01] already been vented quite a bit.
[11:03] And second, actually, we could say
[11:05] it’s a bit "theatrical," that is...
[11:07] Right? In the process of this "
[11:09] performance," you are actually still
[11:11] savoring this relationship, and hoping
[11:13] to let them know. But the key is, why
[11:16] didn't you find a way to let them know?
[11:18] Perhaps communication back then wasn't
[11:20] like it is now...
[11:21] I mean, now you can just track a
[11:22] location to know where someone is.
[11:24] And then you tell them how far you’ve
[11:25] traveled for them, right?
[11:26] But I personally think women generally
[11:28] have a characteristic, which is that
[11:29] once they feel something isn't going to
[11:31] work out...
[11:32] He generally won't do that easily; he
[11:34] just feels that the more you do, the
[11:35] more you're being clingy, and the more
[11:37] afraid he gets. Exactly, exactly. I
[11:41] remember my girlfriend at the time gave
[11:43] me some earnest philosophical advice,
[11:45] saying—
[11:47] If you're holding a bird in your hand,
[11:49] right?
[11:52] Then you should let go and let it fly.
[11:56] It might fly back after it leaves, but
[11:58] if you hold onto it like this, it’s
[12:00] still telling me to let go, isn't it?
[12:04] Right? I think this is a major issue
[12:08] concerning people's livelihoods; don't
[12:10] laugh just because it sounds ridiculous
[12:12] when we talk about it. For example,
[12:16] when I see the sentiments of many
[12:18] people who are heartbroken, I truly
[12:20] feel so much sympathy. It’s because
[12:23] I’ve had that experience myself, and
[12:25] you know what it’s like sometimes.
[12:28] There was a French composer named Satie
[12:30] , a bit of an eccentric.
[12:33] This Satie had a piece called "
[12:35] Vexations."
[12:36] This piano piece...
[12:38] It only takes about a minute to play.
[12:41] But the composer added a note under the
[12:43] score to play it 840 times.
[12:46] Yes.
[12:47] Believe it or not, someone actually
[12:49] performed it. They say it took about
[12:54] three hours and 40 minutes, and some
[12:56] even said that by the 300th repetition,
[12:58] they heard a melody like a hymn. Anyway
[13:03] , it’s surreal. He actually wrote
[13:06] this piece because of heartbreak.
[13:09] What kind of feeling does it express?
[13:13] It's called chilling loneliness.
[13:15] Hmm.
[13:16] I’ve had that feeling too, where...
[13:19] The most heartbreaking moment is the
[13:21] next morning, when you open your eyes.
[13:24] Hmm.
[13:24] For that moment, you still think you
[13:26] haven't been dumped.
[13:27] Hmm.
[13:28] There are those few minutes.
[13:29] You know? Thinking they are still there
[13:31] . Then you immediately realize that
[13:34] kind of chilling loneliness; it takes
[13:36] many people a long time...
[13:37] To actually move on.
[13:39] Move on, and many people just can't go
[13:41] on living.
[13:41] Is this just first love, just
[13:43] adolescence, that only happens once?
[13:45] It’s impossible to be like that the
[13:46] second time. I think the power of this
[13:49] is terrifying; why does it affect
[13:51] people moving forward? Ever since then,
[13:55] I feel like there’s a...
[13:57] Defense mechanism in my heart, saying
[13:59] ...
[14:00] I can never...
[14:02] Place my happiness...
[14:04] Hmm.
[14:05] On the company of another person.
[14:07] Hmm.
[14:08] I think from that point on, this has
[14:10] been my biggest creed, so I can be
[14:12] alone...
[14:14] But there are also people who say
[14:15] you're quite—I have a friend who said
[14:17] , you're pathetic, that you can never
[14:19] commit again,
[14:20] saying if it's gone, you can't go on
[14:22] living.
[14:23] You won't commit yourself again. Is
[14:24] this what you're saying about the
[14:26] impact on people?
[14:27] While you were speaking, I was thinking
[14:29] about a real case I encountered
[14:31] personally; this student had taken
[14:32] psychological assessments when they
[14:34] enrolled, using a specific scale at the
[14:36] time.
[14:37] This child had a very high mental
[14:39] health score back then, meaning if 21
[14:41] was the standard, they might have
[14:42] reached 25 or 26. Hmm.
[14:44] So, we had a record of this at the time
[14:46] , but it wasn't because we were
[14:48] concerned about the student; they went
[14:50] to school normally, and eventually,
[14:52] because of their excellent performance,
[14:54] they were kept on to be a class advisor
[14:56] , or a counselor.
[14:57] As it turned out, they fell in love
[14:59] with a student, and they spent a few
[15:00] years together since they were managing
[15:02] the class, but after the student
[15:04] graduated, because their home was very
[15:06] far away,
[15:06] her father felt uneasy about having a
[15:08] daughter so far off and told her to
[15:10] come back, so she left.
[15:11] This boy, just like you said, couldn't
[15:12] get over it. Hmm, and then,
[15:14] unable to let it go, he eventually
[15:16] found the girl and asked to meet one
[15:17] last time, lured her to a hotel, gave
[15:19] her an anesthetic, and then killed her.
[15:24] After the murder occurred, I said at
[15:25] the time that this student definitely
[15:27] hadn't attended one of my lectures
[15:29] where I specifically discussed
[15:30] retaliatory crimes.
[15:34] In retaliatory crimes, the most
[15:36] important motive is related to emotions
[15:38] , so the ancients had a saying that "
[15:40] crimes of passion have long existed,"
[15:42] meaning that homicides triggered by
[15:43] emotional relationships are very common
[15:45] , and there are several types of this
[15:47] retaliation.
[15:48] There's retaliation by the woman after
[15:49] a breakup, retaliation by the man after
[15:51] a breakup, and there's also retaliation
[15:53] involving a third party in a marriage.
[15:55] Hmm.
[15:55] So, this is especially common in
[15:57] post-breakup retaliation, which is why
[15:59] I later taught them a principle, saying
[16:01] that in a person's life, really,
[16:03] you meet different people through fate,
[16:07] so when you are dating, there is a
[16:08] saying that has been mentioned before,
[16:11] which is that the person you date is
[16:13] one type, and the person you marry is
[16:15] another. You can state what kind of
[16:16] person you love, you can talk about
[16:18] your standards,
[16:19] For example, if I want someone who is
[16:20] prettier, gentler, has fair skin, and
[16:22] so on, you could list so many qualities
[16:23] ; there is absolutely more than one
[16:25] person in this world who fits your
[16:26] criteria.
[16:27] Yes, exactly, it’s a whole category
[16:29] of people.
[16:29] It’s about requirements.
[16:30] So I tell my students—and this
[16:32] includes when I was talking to my own
[16:34] children during their early teenage
[16:36] years about dating—I’ve always said
[16:38] , love is sometimes just a feeling, but
[16:40] that feeling isn't necessarily reality.
[16:43] And I’ll say, for example, if you go
[16:44] to a store to buy clothes, you might
[16:46] really love this one piece. But then
[16:48] you turn around, walk a little further,
[16:50] and you see another one. If you have to
[16:52] choose between the two, you might find
[16:53] the second one is even better than the
[16:55] first.
[16:55] Mm.
[16:55] I use this metaphor to guide them. And
[16:57] what does this mean? It means that when
[16:59] you like someone, don't be in a rush.
[17:01] Mm.
[17:02] Take your time to savor it and look
[17:03] around.
[17:04] Mm.
[17:04] In society, there are actually many
[17:06] excellent people, or people who fit
[17:08] your criteria. Mm.
[17:09] That’s why I say many men are already
[17:11] married and can't even get a divorce if
[17:12] they wanted to.
[17:13] Mm.
[17:13] You aren't even married yet, so why
[17:14] hang yourself from a single tree? Mm-hm
[17:16] .
[17:16] That’s the point.
[17:17] That is a rational voice. Hey, Wendao,
[17:20] do you have any experience with
[17:21] enduring the pain of a breakup?
[17:24] I have plenty.
[17:25] How heartless. He looks very heartless,
[17:27] doesn't he? How could he be?
[17:28] Very heartless.
[17:29] But the thing is, I feel that every
[17:31] person I’ve loved has been a
[17:33] completely different type, and after
[17:35] every breakup, I’ve found that I
[17:36] could learn a lot of things. It brings
[17:39] a lot of positive things to myself;
[17:41] it’s a very good experience. For
[17:43] example, sometimes after a breakup,
[17:45] I’ll suddenly learn skills I didn't
[17:47] have before, or sometimes—
[17:49] Uh, for instance, I once learned a
[17:51] piece of music because of a breakup,
[17:54] partly as a way to vent. Instead of
[17:57] just going for a walk, I would play the
[17:59] violin.
[18:00] Oh.
[18:00] Right? And then, or perhaps—
[18:02] The more they play, the more it feels
[18:03] like it's playing on their heart. Right
[18:04] , but as you keep playing, you
[18:05] eventually become fine, and you stop
[18:07] being so heavy-hearted.
[18:08] Exactly. And then, as I grew up a bit
[18:11] more, I tried writing. Every time after
[18:14] a breakup, I would write something,
[18:15] whether I published it or not, but as I
[18:18] wrote, I felt very happy. Why is that?
[18:20] My writing habit is that as I write, I
[18:22] start thinking about issues, because my
[18:24] writing isn't just standard prose;
[18:26] I’m always exploring certain problems
[18:28] or uncovering new things.
[18:30] Right, that’s a very classic
[18:32] elevation. Yes, and then through a lot
[18:35] of semi-philosophical reasoning or
[18:37] something, I feel that all problems in
[18:39] the world can be solved.
[18:41] That’s a high level to reach. I think
[18:43] the biggest benefit of heartbreak for
[18:45] me is weight loss. I also say that one
[18:47] should be pragmatic, to make good use
[18:49] of this—well, not exactly Western,
[18:52] but Eastern—anyway, within that
[18:54] immense pain of heartbreak, I found
[18:56] that the benefit to me was losing
[18:58] weight, getting thin, because I
[18:59] couldn't eat or drink.
[19:01] But you still have to maintain that
[19:03] result. Actually, my point is, it’s
[19:06] not really just about heartbreak; I
[19:08] mean, I think for all living beings
[19:10] today, emotional distress is a huge
[19:13] problem. We all, we all...aren't you
[19:16] saying you've never sobbed in the
[19:18] middle of the night?
[19:21] Never, not once.
[19:23] So you’re the one who’s truly
[19:25] heartless.
[19:25] I don’t know, I just feel that I’ve
[19:27] always ended my breakups quite
[19:29] healthily. Have you never been dumped?
[19:31] I have been dumped, but I just asked to
[19:32] talk to the other person. I said,
[19:34] let’s sit down and talk, let me know
[19:36] why, and then...
[19:37] Why would you dump me?
[19:38] Right, why did you dump me? We talked
[19:41] about it, and he said he didn’t feel
[19:42] ready to commit to something long-term,
[19:44] like marriage. Since he’s a Capricorn
[19:48] like me, he thinks a lot; he felt he
[19:49] wasn’t prepared and didn’t want to
[19:51] hold me back. I said, "Wow, you really
[19:54] are a good person," and I was very
[19:56] sincere.
[19:56] And so you just took it as him doing it
[19:58] for your own good.
[19:59] I really felt that way. So I think
[20:01] I’ve ended things very healthily.
[20:03] You really know how to appreciate that.
[20:04] That’s so good, that’s so Capricorn
[20:07] .
[20:07] I just think those were healthy
[20:09] breakups, and looking back, every
[20:10] relationship I've had ended quite
[20:12] healthily. Because it wasn't about two
[20:14] people fighting until things got ugly;
[20:16] it was about both of us anticipating
[20:18] future problems, acknowledging the high
[20:20] probability of them happening, and
[20:22] discussing that we truly couldn't go on
[20:24] . Was it painful? Isn't it painful?
[20:27] How did you get through the pain?
[20:29] Others might find it painful.
[20:30] Don't you feel any pain?
[20:31] I don't feel pain. Oh, that is a sign
[20:33] of an extremely healthy mind.
[20:35] Or perhaps something deeply problematic
[20:37] .
[20:37] Actually, when I just saw you all
[20:38] looking at this topic, I was thinking,
[20:40] how do you understand "falling in love"
[20:41] ?
[20:41] What does "falling in love" really mean
[20:43] ?
[20:43] Hmm, what does it mean?
[20:45] The character for "love"(恋) in
[20:46] emotions refers to a one-on-one bond.
[20:49] Uh-huh.
[20:49] This one-on-one bond—actually, "love"
[20:51] (爱) is very common, but this "
[20:53] attachment"(恋) is very rare.
[20:55] In other words, true "attachment"
[20:57] rarely succeeds in life; it means, for
[20:59] instance, in my own journey of growth,
[21:01] there is that one person.
[21:03] There is always a place for them in my
[21:04] heart, even if it doesn't lead to
[21:05] marriage.
[21:06] Hmm.
[21:06] So I think true "attachment" doesn't
[21:08] have to end in marriage, but I like you
[21:10] in my heart, and seeing you happy makes
[21:12] me truly happy.
[21:13] Hmm.
[21:14] Then there is another type—I think we
[21:16] often just get people to make friends.
[21:18] Hmm.
[21:18] That counts as a kind of emotion, but I
[21:20] don't think it qualifies as "attachment
[21:22] ."
[21:23] Hmm.
[21:23] That's why some people can break up
[21:25] with you and immediately be with
[21:26] someone else; if it were a true "
[21:27] attachment," it would be painful.
[21:29] It would feel like a real attachment, a
[21:31] feeling of being deeply hurt, so I
[21:32] think if we had a little bit of
[21:34] knowledge about that, we shouldn't head
[21:35] toward "attachment" at the very
[21:37] beginning.
[21:37] Hmm.
[21:38] We should first head toward making
[21:39] friends.
[21:40] Hmm.
[21:40] Making friends means that we aren't in
[21:42] that kind of relationship; we are just
[21:43] friends.
[21:44] If the deal doesn't work out, the
[21:45] friendship remains.
[21:46] Right, just a friendship. To what
[21:48] extent should this friendship
[21:49] eventually go? It's just that two
[21:51] people get along very comfortably; it
[21:53] means I'm not with you for the sake of
[21:55] "attachment," but I feel comfortable
[21:57] with you, so if we're not comfortable,
[21:59] we break up, but we're still good
[22:00] friends.
[22:01] I think this kind of emotion is more
[22:03] mature.
[22:03] Because it really does involve the
[22:05] question of compatibility.
[22:06] Hmm.
[22:07] So for many young people, they think
[22:09] this is just love, "I love," but they
[22:11] don't realize that love is actually
[22:12] about giving and about tolerance.
[22:14] Hmm.
[22:15] For many people, love just means "I
[22:16] want to possess." So I think women
[22:18] should understand this feeling men have
[22:20] , like when I see jewelry.
[22:22] Sometimes you see something and really
[22:23] want to own it, but once you have it,
[22:25] it’s actually useless.
[22:26] But you just want to get it; the less
[22:28] you can get it, the more you want it,
[22:29] and once you really buy it, it doesn't
[22:31] matter anymore.
[22:31] Also, there's the feeling of losing
[22:33] something you really care about and
[22:34] treasure.
[22:35] Hmm.
[22:35] Yes, exactly. How do you deal with the
[22:38] pain of that loss?
[22:39] Just get another one, right? Doesn't
[22:41] buying a new one solve it? For example,
[22:43] my first puppy, I brought it out and
[22:45] loved it dearly, but then it got hit by
[22:47] a car.
[22:48] After it was hit, I didn't dare see
[22:49] anyone for a day; I would start crying
[22:50] the moment I opened my mouth or
[22:52] answered the phone. I’m a person who
[22:53] never cries, but my daughter was very
[22:55] understanding, so the next day she took
[22:57] me out to buy another one. Once we got
[22:58] back, the moment I held it in my arms,
[23:00] I immediately fell in love with it. Mm.
[23:03] So, I think this is a way you can use
[23:05] to help yourself relieve that pain.
[23:08] So, can you generally stay friends with
[23:10] someone after a breakup?
[23:11] No.
[23:12] Why is that?
[23:13] I just can’t see them.
[23:14] I just can’t see them anymore. Why is
[23:16] that?
[23:19] Is it because it's awkward, or...
[23:22] I just can't see them because I can't
[23:24] pretend to be ignorant when I know the
[23:26] truth.
[23:26] It's just that seeing them again feels
[23:29] so unnatural, you know? It's like,
[23:30] despite everything we've been through
[23:32] together,
[23:33] we'd have to act like, "Hey, what books
[23:35] have you been reading lately?" It's not
[23:37] that we can't be friends—if we really
[23:39] wanted to fake it, we could—but I
[23:41] don't see the point. I have plenty of
[23:43] friends, and I don't need to make
[23:45] things awkward for myself just to have
[23:47] this one friend.
[23:47] Well, I think Teacher Wendang could
[23:49] definitely remain friends.
[23:50] Sure, sure.
[23:52] Yes.
[23:53] Yes, and I think the main issue, or the
[23:56] difficult part, is that you might not
[23:58] know the right dynamic or, say, how
[24:00] deep your interaction should be. But in
[24:03] my own experience, it's usually much
[24:05] easier to become friends after many
[24:06] years have passed since the breakup.
[24:08] It's much easier to become friends
[24:10] after many years.
[24:11] Of course, it’s unlikely—for
[24:13] instance, breaking up today and being
[24:14] friends tomorrow, that’s quite a
[24:16] challenge.
[24:18] Let's talk about it, let's discuss if
[24:20] we can be friends tomorrow. I really
[24:22] doubt if anyone actually reaches that
[24:24] level, just like Teacher Li. I tell you
[24:26] , there really are people who just
[24:28] can't move past it. For example, why do
[24:31] some people turn to suicide? Let me
[24:33] tell you a story—some people have
[24:35] actually found enlightenment through
[24:37] suicide, did you know that? This is
[24:40] supposed to be a real news story,
[24:41] because there was a village online
[24:43] called Dashui Village—it’s quite
[24:45] amusing. He had his eye on someone, and
[24:48] his family had even paid a dowry of
[24:50] 200,000 yuan, you know? They were even
[24:52] getting ready to start a family. But
[24:54] then the woman suddenly changed her
[24:55] mind and didn't want to be with him
[24:57] anymore. She wouldn't be with him, and
[24:59] he was in so much pain, so much pain.
[25:01] He said, I think this is truly the
[25:02] internet generation; it's like, not
[25:04] only am I going to commit suicide,
[25:06] I’m going to choose a way to do it,
[25:08] and I’m going to film it and
[25:09] livestream it online. There really are
[25:11] cases like this abroad, there really
[25:13] are, like there was this young guy,
[25:15] maybe from Turkey or somewhere, who was
[25:17] like, "You think I'm faking it?""Do you
[25:19] think I'm faking it?" He just went for
[25:22] it, this guy was also like, "Hey, I'm
[25:24] going to boil myself."
[25:28] Isn't there?
[25:28] This is incredible, this really is
[25:30] something else.
[25:31] And then? That day, he went out and got
[25:34] one of those big iron pots from the
[25:35] countryside. Put some firewood
[25:38] underneath,
[25:40] Then he took his shirt off and lay down
[25:42] inside the pot. He lay in the pot, and
[25:44] the fire was burning.
[25:46] Uh-huh.
[25:47] But at first, he actually felt
[25:49] comfortable. Yeah,
[25:51] Because it was early spring, and spring
[25:53] is very cold. This boiling life was
[25:57] actually quite comfortable, quite
[25:59] comfortable, but it was just too cold,
[26:01] and my final analysis is that it was
[26:03] one of those big rural iron pots.
[26:07] It conducts heat, I think it conducts
[26:09] heat, but it was too cold outside, just
[26:11] early spring, and the firewood
[26:13] underneath probably wasn't enough, he
[26:15] lay in there for two hours and it just
[26:17] wouldn't cook.
[26:19] No one was adding firewood, right? The
[26:21] longer he lay there, the more
[26:23] comfortable he felt. The temperature
[26:26] was just right; I’d guess it was like
[26:28] those hot springs in the snow in Japan,
[26:30] that kind of feeling. Blocked it, and
[26:33] in the end, he came out, he was fine,
[26:35] and he posted the news online. See, he
[26:37] was actually quite comfortable; why did
[26:39] I say it wasn't fake? You can see these
[26:41] photos I’m giving you, look, look at
[26:43] this guy, look at him boiling himself,
[26:45] boiling himself like this.
[26:47] Look at that smile.
[26:49] Right, happy.
[26:51] Happy boiling. You talk about this, and
[26:53] the first thing that comes to my mind
[26:55] is how he came up with this method of
[26:57] suicide; I feel like he must have seen
[26:58] pigs being slaughtered and dehaired,
[27:00] and he used that method, right?
[27:02] It’s so bizarre to think of this
[27:03] method; I’ve never heard of this
[27:05] suicide method, boiling oneself.
[27:07] Right. No, some people just hope to
[27:10] attract attention online. Ah, it’s
[27:12] performative like that.
[27:13] Performative, and as a result, he
[27:14] boiled for a long time without getting
[27:16] cooked, and it was actually quite
[27:17] comfortable, so, hey.
[27:18] So he wasn't in pain, is that it? After
[27:20] it was over?
[27:21] He just had a laugh, and this is just a
[27:23] ...
[27:23] It was just like taking a sauna, you
[27:24] enjoyed it, didn't you?
[27:25] So it really is what Teacher Li called
[27:28] "sublimation."
[27:29] Sublimation is for literature and art.
[27:32] That doesn't really seem like
[27:33] sublimation, does it?
[27:35] But bad things turned into good ones.
[27:38] You know, we were just joking around,
[27:40] but I personally had been in a state of
[27:43] what I felt was hellish pain. Losing
[27:46] the person you love, why did that
[27:48] happen? So, I am especially grateful to
[27:51] those who helped me get through that
[27:53] time. Since we’re discussing success
[27:55] stories, many young people just can't
[27:57] endure this pain. So, I share my own
[27:59] experience. Looking back, during that
[28:02] time of immense pain, there was a close
[28:04] female friend who is still my good
[28:06] friend today. Mm.
[28:08] You can tell that this woman had been
[28:10] through it all. Mm.
[28:12] Listening to the tone she used when she
[28:14] spoke to me, you could tell that this
[28:16] kind of emotion is a pathological
[28:17] condition. Heartbreak is a sickness.
[28:20] It's a pathological state because, at
[28:22] the time, you just feel like you can't
[28:24] go on. This is truly what it means to
[28:26] have a heart-wrenching pain. It
[28:28] actually hurts right here in the heart,
[28:30] it really does hurt, to the point where
[28:32] you can’t catch your breath. When the
[28:36] news came, I called her—my close
[28:38] confidante—and I still remember what
[28:40] she said. I am so grateful to her. She
[28:44] said, "I know, I know, I know, just
[28:47] don't rush it." She said, "I know, I
[28:50] know you are in immense pain right now.
[28:52] " She said that no matter what we say,
[28:55] it won't take your pain away. She said,
[28:57] "Wentao, but you must listen to me:
[28:59] time. It’s just about enduring the
[29:02] time; there is no other way." She said,
[29:05] "Maybe it’ll take a month, maybe two,
[29:08] maybe three, but you must have faith."
[29:11] Mm.
[29:12] One day,
[29:14] when you look back on this, just as she
[29:16] said, you’ll be able to tell it like
[29:17] a joke. Mm.
[29:19] And then, she would talk with me every
[29:20] single day.
[29:22] Mm.
[29:22] Later, I realized what a magnificent
[29:24] woman she was. Why was she able to be
[29:26] so comforting? Because she had just
[29:28] gone through a breakup too. We would
[29:30] call each other every day to talk about
[29:31] it. But I feel that many people can't
[29:34] get over it nowadays, and you were the
[29:35] same back then, because you see that
[29:37] girl and get triggered by a bunch of
[29:39] other people too. I think that because
[29:42] of social media and such, our
[29:43] connection to another person has become
[29:45] even more intense. For example, I’ve
[29:48] been there too—after a breakup, I’d
[29:50] still look them up, checking their
[29:52] Weibo every day, browsing their social
[29:53] media updates, and even peeking at
[29:55] their music app to see what they’d
[29:57] been listening to, guessing what time
[29:59] they heard certain songs, and wondering
[30:01] if they were thinking about me. It’s
[30:03] because we keep exposing ourselves to
[30:05] triggers—sometimes you just can’t
[30:07] help it, you keep searching for things
[30:08] to hurt yourself—until one day you
[30:10] see it, maybe they’ve gotten married
[30:12] or have a new girlfriend, and the
[30:14] moment you see her photo, you finally
[30:15] realize, "Okay, it’s really over."
[30:18] But throughout this process, because
[30:20] you keep using these things to provoke
[30:21] yourself, your wound can never heal.
[30:24] Just as it’s getting better, you go
[30:26] and rub salt in it or burn it with fire
[30:27] , so I think that has a lot to do with
[30:29] it. Nowadays, it’s not like breaking
[30:32] up means you’ll never see each other;
[30:34] we still follow each other on social
[30:36] media, we share everything, and we
[30:38] might even share an iCloud account
[30:39] where I can see every new photo you
[30:41] take, so the stimulation is incredibly
[30:43] persistent.
[30:46] Actually, I’ve encountered cases like
[30:49] this, where a girl and her college
[30:51] classmate started dating, and after
[30:53] graduation, they moved to a city
[30:54] together to start a business,
[30:56] eventually founding a company, and it
[30:58] all went smoothly until they had a son.
[31:02] Later on, the man got involved with his
[31:05] secretary, and the woman noticed he was
[31:07] coming home less and less. She was in
[31:09] so much pain that it eventually led to
[31:11] a divorce.
[31:13] After the divorce, the woman got
[31:15] custody of the child, but the assets
[31:17] and the company went to the man.
[31:19] The man may have given her some money,
[31:20] but the more the woman thought about it
[31:22] , the angrier she got, feeling that
[31:23] after everything they had been through
[31:25] together, it had come down to this. So,
[31:27] she filed another lawsuit in the name
[31:28] of the child, but during a scheduled
[31:30] visitation, the man just took the child
[31:32] away.
[31:32] After taking the child, he liquidated
[31:34] the company and vanished from the city.
[31:36] The woman was left with no company,
[31:37] couldn't find her ex-husband, and
[31:39] couldn't find her child either, leaving
[31:41] her in absolute agony.
[31:42] This happened many years ago, and she
[31:43] went to a newspaper office hoping they
[31:45] could help her, sort of like how people
[31:47] do "human flesh searches" on the
[31:48] internet today.
[31:49] Mm. The newspaper invited several
[31:52] experts, including sociologists, gender
[31:54] specialists, legal scholars, and
[31:56] attorneys. Many of the experts offered
[31:58] various ideas, suggesting things like
[32:00] freezing accounts or contacting certain
[32:03] authorities, and discussed many options
[32:05] .
[32:06] Since I work in psychology, I observed
[32:08] the girl. She was quite delicate, from
[32:10] the south, and looked like a very
[32:12] clean-cut person, but because she was
[32:15] so sorrowful, her complexion wasn't
[32:17] great.
[32:18] I hadn't said anything, and after a
[32:20] while, they asked, "Professor Li, why
[32:22] don't you share your opinion?" I
[32:24] replied, "I'm afraid what I have to say
[32:26] might not be easy for you to accept,
[32:28] but..."
[32:29] They insisted, "Come on, just say it."
[32:31] I turned to the girl and said, "
[32:33] They’ve all given you a lot of advice
[32:35] , but these suggestions will only lead
[32:37] you to keep suffering and keep putting
[32:38] in effort to no avail." I told her, "I
[32:40] want to ask you a few questions." In
[32:42] the process of psychological counseling
[32:44] , we generally don't tell people what
[32:46] to do; instead, we pose questions to
[32:48] them. The first question is: You are 28
[32:51] years old now. You've known him for
[32:53] eight years, which means for 20 of
[32:55] those 28 years, this person wasn't in
[32:57] your life.
[32:58] Did you live well, or were you able to
[33:00] live?
[33:00] Yes.
[33:01] Secondly, I said, compared to other
[33:03] women, you actually have many
[33:05] advantages. You built a business
[33:07] together for four years, succeeded, and
[33:09] had a son. Why did he eventually leave
[33:12] you? I asked, "Have you considered the
[33:14] issues there? If you don't, you will
[33:16] remain in pain without understanding
[33:18] what caused it."
[33:19] Yes.
[33:20] Thirdly, you are 28 now. If you live to
[33:22] be 70, you have over 40 years left; to
[33:24] 80, over 50. If you keep searching for
[33:26] him and the child, what will the
[33:28] outcome be when you find him? I said,
[33:30] you will just keep suing each other,
[33:32] and the child will be torn between you.
[33:34] Yes.
[33:34] Right? So, I told her, if you answer
[33:37] these three questions yourself, you
[33:39] will know what to do next.
[33:40] Yes.
[33:41] That is the kind of advice psychology
[33:43] gives. If she has to choose, she has 40
[33:45] more years ahead; if she finds him and
[33:47] keeps fighting, how many years will
[33:48] that consume?
[33:49] Right? It would be better to hurt now
[33:52] and just put an end to it. I will live
[33:54] a better life.
[33:55] Yes.
[33:56] That is to say, make it so that if you
[33:57] ever see me again, I’m living better
[33:59] than I was when I was with you. I said
[34:00] that’s the direction you should
[34:02] strive for, instead of trying to find
[34:03] them. Oh, so having made that rational
[34:05] decision, one still has to go through
[34:08] the necessary pain.
[34:10] Is there a good way to get through this
[34:11] painful process?
[34:12] This process is exactly as you just
[34:14] said; sublimation is one way, but the
[34:17] most important thing comes from friends
[34:19] . If you had a companion during that
[34:21] journey, things would be much better.
[34:24] Mm.
[34:24] I mean, including some cases I've seen,
[34:27] I feel that for college students who
[34:29] have relationship issues, breakups, or
[34:31] arguments with classmates, it's all the
[34:33] same. I always say that if they have
[34:35] some sensible older mentors around them
[34:37] .
[34:37] They can lead them out of it.
[34:38] Mm.
[34:39] Mm.
[34:39] There are some funny stories in
[34:41] psychology too, like one college
[34:42] student who was in a similar situation,
[34:44] but he was in an unrequited love.
[34:46] You know, unrequited love is also very
[34:48] painful. Mm.
[34:49] He loved that girl so much, but he
[34:51] didn't dare to confess.
[34:52] What could he do? He would just follow
[34:54] her wherever she went.
[34:55] He’d take whatever classes she took,
[34:56] sitting crookedly just to watch her. He
[34:58] was afraid others would stare or the
[35:00] teacher would notice, and eventually,
[35:01] he was in so much pain he went to see a
[35:03] psychologist, asking, "What should I do
[35:04] ?"
[35:05] Mm.
[35:05] The psychologist was quite charming.
[35:07] The student asked him, "Am I a pervert?
[35:09] Is there something wrong with me
[35:10] mentally?"
[35:11] Then the doctor took him to the
[35:12] entrance of the dining hall.
[35:14] He said, "Just call over three people,
[35:16] one by one." He didn't understand why.
[35:21] In the end, the doctor took the
[35:23] initiative to call an old gentleman
[35:25] over, who came up and asked, "What's
[35:27] the problem?" Then he said, "This young
[35:33] man has fallen for a girl and wants to
[35:35] watch her wherever she goes. Do you
[35:37] think this is normal?" The old man said
[35:40] , "A fair lady, a gentleman's choice.
[35:42] It’s normal, it’s normal, child.
[35:44] Your psychology is normal." He said, "
[35:46] Oh, it's normal? It's normal." And he
[35:49] said, "Thank you, thank you, you can go
[35:51] now." Then he called over a second
[35:54] young man. He repeated the story,
[35:56] saying, "He fell for a girl but didn't
[35:58] dare to tell her, so he follows her
[36:00] wherever she goes. Do you think this is
[36:03] normal psychology?" The boy replied, "
[36:05] Hey, we're all like that. We're all
[36:07] studying who's pretty and how to
[36:09] approach them, but it’s just so hard
[36:11] to get close to her." And then, he said
[36:13] , "Oh, it's not just that you have this
[36:15] love, but how are you discussing it?"
[36:18] And then he asked, "Have you ever
[36:20] discussed this with anyone else?"
[36:22] If he discusses it, then that's the end
[36:24] of it.
[36:24] Hmm. And then he said, "Thank you, you
[36:26] may go." The third teacher calls a girl
[36:29] over and asks, "Here's the situation:
[36:31] do you think this guy is annoying or a
[36:33] pervert?" The girl says, "What era is
[36:35] this? Love however you want to love,
[36:37] just be bold."
[36:38] After the three of them left, the
[36:40] teacher asked, "They all think it's
[36:42] normal. Do you still think you're
[36:44] normal now?"
[36:45] And then he took this kid out.
[36:46] Otherwise, he would be very miserable;
[36:48] he was in love but didn't know what to
[36:50] do.
[36:50] So sometimes, it's just like what I
[36:52] said, he's just in that stage.
[36:53] Looking back, he felt he was very
[36:55] immature. So, do not be ashamed to seek
[36:58] help. When you face a crisis in your
[36:59] heart, right, do not be ashamed to ask
[37:01] for help. Sometimes, others really...I
[37:04] remember that even just a word from a
[37:06] friend can be incredibly helpful to me.
[37:08] For example, I know a friend of mine
[37:11] who went through a similar emotional
[37:13] situation a few years ago—a divorce,
[37:15] it was very painful—and when I was in
[37:18] my deepest pain, I asked him about it.
[37:20] Hmm.
[37:20] I said, "Back then..." because I was
[37:22] the one comforting him when he was in
[37:24] so much pain. I asked, "How do you feel
[37:26] now?" Actually, I found that this one
[37:28] simple sentence from my buddy put me at
[37:30] ease. He said, "It's fine, I don't even
[37:32] think about her now; she's completely
[37:34] out of my mind." He was crying his eyes
[37:36] out back then, and he said that time
[37:37] has passed and it’s like nothing
[37:39] happened at all.
[37:39] Don't underestimate that.
[37:41] Hmm.
[37:42] Why can you endure the pain after
[37:43] surgery in your heart? Because you know
[37:46] it will slowly get better, it’s
[37:48] inevitable.
[37:49] Hmm. Doesn't it come down to that same
[37:51] logic?
[37:52] Yes, of course, and I think the harder
[37:54] part is actually what? I'm curious
[37:58] about the situation Fang Zhou mentioned
[38:00] , the social context of heartbreak.
[38:04] Because technological conditions are
[38:06] different today, is heartbreak in the
[38:08] internet age any different from before?
[38:11] For example, like the one earlier
[38:12] wanting to boil this, and there was an
[38:14] audience, right? It had a performative
[38:16] aspect, because he wanted to show it to
[38:18] everyone. In today’s internet age,
[38:22] with so many social tools and so much
[38:24] we share, it seems we can neither cut
[38:26] ties nor step away. Secondly, many
[38:31] people today—and I’m no expert in
[38:33] psychology, but I feel there's an issue
[38:35] with how many people build their sense
[38:37] of self.
[38:40] They tie their sense of self directly
[38:42] to the persona they project online. So,
[38:45] for many, their suffering has become—
[38:47] I’ve seen this myself—a kind of
[38:49] performance.
[38:50] Yes, like livestreaming.
[38:52] Livestreaming, or perhaps they feel a
[38:54] need to broadcast it.
[38:57] So, what can be done in this situation?
[39:00] From a psychological perspective,
[39:02] it’s a matter of perspective.
[39:04] When someone is too wrapped up in their
[39:06] own feelings, their ego, as you just
[39:07] mentioned, becomes too big.
[39:09] Mhm.
[39:09] And when that ego becomes too big,
[39:11] nothing from the outside can get in.
[39:12] It becomes invisible. That’s why you
[39:14] really need another person's
[39:16] perspective—an outside point of view
[39:18] —most importantly, the perspective of
[39:20] time. That’s why I say it’s best to
[39:22] have an age-gap friendship as you grow.
[39:25] Mhm.
[39:26] Find someone about ten years older than
[39:28] you.
[39:28] To be a friend.
[39:29] That way, they’ve already experienced
[39:31] many of the things in life that you are
[39:32] currently going through.
[39:33] A person with experience. They might be
[39:35] able to set you straight with just one
[39:36] sentence.
[39:37] Take that 2004 Ma Jiajue case at Yunnan
[39:39] University. Like I said, it was a
[39:42] privacy issue, but it couldn't be
[39:43] hidden and was exposed by classmates,
[39:45] and he just couldn't handle it. If only
[39:47] an older mentor had been there to say,
[39:49] "Hey, what’s the big deal? Men make
[39:51] mistakes sometimes. Look at [famous
[39:54] figure], even they went through
[39:55] something like that." He might have
[39:58] realized it was common—like the
[40:00] teacher I mentioned earlier who said "
[40:01] look at those three, you're fine"—so
[40:03] when you get another person's
[40:05] perspective, you realize, "Oh, that's
[40:06] not what it's about."
[40:09] For example, when we look at a group
[40:11] photo, who does everyone look for first
[40:13] ? They always look for themselves.
[40:15] So, while you think it’s a huge deal,
[40:16] to everyone else—since they’re all
[40:18] busy looking at themselves—nobody is
[40:20] really looking at you.
[40:21] Mhm. Mhm.
[40:22] So, it's your turn now; you feel this
[40:24] matter is a huge deal, but others might
[40:26] not see it that way.
[40:27] So sometimes, others might say one
[40:28] thing from a different perspective that
[40:30] really gets to you. Also, there’s
[40:33] this deep obsession people have. Take
[40:36] the Hollywood comedian Jim Carrey, for
[40:39] example; his girlfriend once committed
[40:41] suicide. She took all of Jim Carrey’s
[40:45] sleeping pills. They had been together
[40:50] for three years, broken up many times,
[40:52] and her final note essentially said, "I
[40:54] know I could have pulled through, but
[40:56] this time, I’m just tired." It’s
[41:01] like she tried living on her own like
[41:03] that. But do you think this is a
[41:05] deformity? Meaning, she pinned
[41:09] everything she had on one person,
[41:10] essentially concluding that she could
[41:13] never find...anyone better, or anyone
[41:15] who would love her as much, to the
[41:17] point where living on seemed
[41:18] meaningless.
[41:21] Yeah.
[41:22] I think this likely has to do with
[41:23] their background.
[41:25] Yeah.
[41:25] It's just that people seek out what
[41:27] they lack in their emotional lives.
[41:29] Some people, for instance, might grow
[41:31] up without a father, so they start
[41:33] dating early, looking for a man, and
[41:35] often they end up finding someone much
[41:38] older.
[41:39] So, tying your entire life to someone
[41:41] else like that suggests their
[41:43] attachment development didn't go well.
[41:45] Hmm, does this relate to their
[41:47] relationship with their parents growing
[41:48] up?
[41:49] Right, it's about those early years,
[41:50] because I believe that as a person
[41:52] matures, the more confident they are,
[41:54] the more they can be alone.
[41:55] Yeah. Only those who lack confidence
[41:58] feel they can't be without someone else
[42:00] .
[42:00] As if that person’s presence is the
[42:02] only proof of their own existence.
[42:05] So they are desperate to maintain that
[42:07] relationship; I tell people sometimes
[42:09] that we all come into this world alone,
[42:11] and before we turn twenty, most of us
[42:13] are on our own. And in our later years,
[42:15] it's not guaranteed that two people
[42:17] will leave at the same time.
[42:18] That's true. Yeah.
[42:19] You’ll still have a significant
[42:21] amount of time alone—even if you love
[42:22] someone, you won't necessarily go
[42:23] together; one comes alone, one leaves
[42:25] alone.
[42:25] Exactly, so I think what people need to
[42:27] understand is...first and foremost, you
[42:28] are an independent individual.
[42:30] And throughout this process, you have
[42:31] to believe in fate.
[42:32] Hmm.
[42:33] If it’s meant to be, two people will
[42:34] have a wonderful life together.
[42:36] Actually, I think a good marriage is a
[42:38] relationship between family members;
[42:40] it’s not just a romantic one. So,
[42:42] being madly in love is just a feeling,
[42:44] it’s not reality. Mm-hmm.
[42:46] Real life is when two people are
[42:48] together, like you read the paper, I
[42:49] read the paper, we don't say a word,
[42:51] but I just want to be with you while we
[42:52] read.
[42:53] That is the real stuff. Conversely,
[42:55] being constantly, you know, talking or
[42:57] expressing things to each other all day
[42:59] long,
[43:00] But I actually quite enjoy that.
[43:01] It's performative, like you just said.
[43:05] I actually enjoy that feeling of crazy
[43:07] infatuation, because I later realized
[43:09] that from a writing or literary
[43:11] perspective, two things can trigger an
[43:13] instant growth—where you suddenly
[43:15] discover you know yourself much better.
[43:20] One is observing a loved one’s death
[43:22] up close; the stimulation and the speed
[43:24] at which you grow overnight is immense.
[43:27] The other is crazy infatuation, where
[43:29] you can't sleep or eat. That might only
[43:32] happen once in a lifetime. But I think,
[43:35] since it’s so rare for me personally,
[43:37] I really want to talk about it.
[43:39] How long?
[43:41] Probably about three or four months,
[43:43] just not being able to sleep, then
[43:44] starting to miss them and stuff. I was
[43:46] so immersed in it, I felt like I
[43:48] discovered new psychological
[43:49] capabilities.
[43:50] Then, for example, at the three-month
[43:52] mark, boom, they’re gone.
[43:54] Mm-hmm.
[43:54] It vanished.
[43:55] Mm. Well, it can’t just vanish; I
[43:57] need a reason. I’m the type that
[43:59] needs closure. You have to tell me
[44:01] clearly if it’s my fault. Once I find
[44:04] out it isn’t me, I’m fine. So maybe
[44:06] at its core, it’s still a form of
[44:08] narcissism. I can’t let the other
[44:10] person…for me, the biggest
[44:11] destruction in a breakup is the
[44:12] destruction of self-confidence.
[44:14] Oh. That’s quite a mature thing to
[44:17] say. What do you mean? You know? It's
[44:21] just that people my age
[44:23] can also get their hearts broken.
[44:25] Interesting, right? Isn't it? We had an
[44:30] old buddy who wasn't married, and he
[44:32] fell in love with a young girl.
[44:36] You think middle-aged people are fine,
[44:38] don't you? A few years ago, he was in
[44:40] such pain because the girl left him. Mm
[44:43] .
[44:43] He was losing hair in clumps. I hadn't
[44:45] seen him in a long time, and I wondered
[44:47] why he had gone bald.
[44:48] Mm.
[44:48] A middle-aged man, around 40, 40-
[44:50] something, losing hair in clumps from
[44:53] the pain. And I thought, wow, this is
[44:55] serious! So, I was talking to them and
[44:57] working with them, trying to figure out
[44:59] what was really going on. After talking
[45:01] it all through, I realized that a
[45:02] middle-aged person's heartbreak is
[45:04] actually quite complex. Why is it so
[45:06] devastating?
[45:07] Yeah.
[45:09] I remember Wang Shuo once wrote in a
[45:11] novel that a breakdown happens because
[45:13] it reminds you of all your past
[45:14] breakdowns, you know? I realized that
[45:18] the pain of heartbreak for them, why is
[45:21] it, in my opinion, even worse than for
[45:23] young people?
[45:25] Why is it so much more intense than for
[45:27] the young? It’s linked to their
[45:28] mid-life crisis.
[45:30] You know, when people reach middle age,
[45:32] they often start to doubt their own
[45:34] past.
[45:35] They lose confidence in the future. No
[45:38] faith in the future, haven't made
[45:40] enough money, don't know how they'll
[45:42] manage in retirement, their current job
[45:44] is becoming obsolete, and young people
[45:46] are surpassing them. A middle-aged
[45:49] person in this situation, you know?
[45:51] Their relationship is their last
[45:53] lifeline.
[45:54] Right.
[45:55] It’s the anchor for their entire life
[45:56] .
[45:57] Once that’s gone, it actually
[45:59] triggers a nuclear explosion.
[46:00] A life,
[46:01] a total collapse. It’s exactly like
[46:04] you said about confidence; they feel
[46:06] like everything is over, absolutely
[46:08] everything. That’s why Freud
[46:11] mentioned in his psychoanalytic
[46:13] theories that delusions—like the
[46:15] jealousy delusions we often see—are
[46:17] actually a form of self-comfort. It’s
[46:21] something internal that they project
[46:23] onto others.
[46:25] So, what you just said is quite right.
[46:28] If someone faces this kind of emotional
[46:31] setback, the important question isn't "
[46:33] Why did you break up with me?" but
[46:36] rather that you don't even understand
[46:38] yourself.
[46:39] Mm.
[46:40] Mm.
[46:41] For instance, I think when looking for
[46:43] a partner, you need to know who you are
[46:45] before you can accurately find the
[46:46] right person. If you don’t consider
[46:49] yourself at all and just chase after
[46:51] someone you think is great, the success
[46:53] rate is extremely low. But I do wonder,
[46:55] does how you break up affect whether or
[46:57] not you can move on? For example, some
[46:59] people break up—like Teacher Li just
[47:01] mentioned, perhaps out of spite—could
[47:03] it be that the other person doesn't
[47:05] even bring up a breakup but suddenly
[47:07] shows up with a new girlfriend? They
[47:08] lack communication, just appearing with
[47:10] a new girlfriend, or it’s a
[47:12] accusatory breakup where they say, "
[47:13] Because you're a failure, you have no
[47:15] money, no house, no car, no future, I'm
[47:17] breaking up with you." So I ask, why
[47:19] does one's self-confidence collapse?
[47:21] It’s because you are constantly being
[47:23] accused during the breakup process. So,
[47:24] I later concluded that a breakup—
[47:26] actually, the best way to break up is
[47:28] just what I told Teacher Wen before—
[47:30] it’s the same as resigning. If you
[47:33] are still blaming and accusing, then
[47:35] the breakup isn't clean. But if you
[47:37] only have gratitude, like "Thank you,
[47:39] thank you for your mentorship, thank
[47:41] you..." No, in this part, thank you,
[47:43] thank you, only gratitude, thank you
[47:45] boss. "Right, thank you, thank you,
[47:47] thank you boss, and then I'm going to
[47:49] start my life's journey." If it's only
[47:51] gratitude, it's basically...it makes
[47:53] the breakup even more troublesome.
[47:55] Really? Oh my.
[47:56] Teacher Li, what kind of breakup method
[47:58] do you think is better and more
[48:00] rational?
[48:01] Well, I don't have much experience with
[48:03] this question, and I think my first
[48:05] breakup was quite hurtful to the other
[48:07] person. I feel that it needs to be
[48:09] quick and clean; first, you must keep
[48:11] things separate from the early stages
[48:13] of dating,
[48:14] I don't take advantage of you, and I
[48:16] think many breakups are so painful for
[48:18] the other party because they have
[48:20] invested
[48:21] It's like...I remember when I first
[48:22] started working in the 80s, there was a
[48:25] major case where a person killed 12
[48:26] people in one day.
[48:27] At that time, it was right around the "
[48:29] Strike Hard" campaign, so our superiors
[48:31] attached great importance to it, saying
[48:32] we must investigate if the case was
[48:34] resisting the campaign, but later we
[48:36] found that...It was a young carpenter.
[48:37] He grew up without parents, from
[48:39] Sichuan, learned a craft, and worked as
[48:41] a carpenter. That carpenter would go
[48:42] house to house, village to village. He
[48:44] would go around and earn some money.
[48:46] Back then, a few hundred yuan was
[48:47] equivalent to hundreds of thousands
[48:49] today, just at the beginning of the 80s
[48:50] reform and opening up. As it turned out
[48:52] , there was a woman in the village who
[48:54] had a daughter, and she wanted her
[48:55] daughter to date him, even though this
[48:57] young carpenter was actually very short
[48:59] .
[49:00] But she didn't really want her to marry
[49:01] him; she just wanted to get his money.
[49:03] So this girl, her mother started seeing
[49:05] him too, and she’d demand money to
[49:06] sleep with him. They bought a sewing
[49:08] machine—you know, the "three big
[49:10] items": a bicycle, a sewing machine,
[49:11] and a radio. They bought everything. It
[49:13] got to that point. The mother was
[49:15] sleeping with him too, and she’d
[49:16] demand money as well.
[49:17] Buying clothes.
[49:18] In the end, this girl basically spent
[49:20] all his money, and then her mother
[49:21] introduced her to another boy in the
[49:23] village to get married.
[49:24] The guy finally realized what was going
[49:26] on, and he said, "Fine, go ahead and
[49:28] get married, but you have to pay me
[49:29] back."
[49:29] Yeah. So, in cases like this, a lot of
[49:32] them are scams, as I said. The woman
[49:34] loses her virtue, and the man loses his
[49:36] wealth. Since you didn't have those
[49:38] kinds of losses, you really are a true
[49:40] romantic.
[49:41] That is to say.
[49:42] But, many breakups...
[49:44] Some people really go all in.
[49:45] Right, many breakups actually lead to
[49:47] people losing everything they have.
[49:49] Exactly. Some girls think, "You were
[49:51] deceived, and now you won't marry me,"
[49:53] and for the men, most of them lose
[49:55] their wealth. These breakups get very
[49:58] messy.
[49:58] True. You know, I heard about this
[50:01] businessman, you know? He found a woman
[50:04] .
[50:05] I don't know how it happened, but he
[50:07] really treated her well—bought her a
[50:09] house, land, and a car. Then the woman
[50:11] suddenly disappeared.
[50:12] You know?
[50:13] Marriage fraud.
[50:14] Marriage fraud.
[50:15] They weren't even married, just dating.
[50:17] In the end, how did this boss get his
[50:19] property back?
[50:21] He sued. Do you mean he actually took
[50:24] it to court? His lawyer told him, "I
[50:26] didn't know you could sue for this,"
[50:28] arguing it was emotional fraud.
[50:30] Hmm.
[50:30] He brought out proof: "Look, I bought
[50:32] this for you, I bought this for you,
[50:34] and I bought this for you." But in the
[50:36] end, the woman left so coldly—just
[50:39] like what Teacher Li said, a clean
[50:41] break—she blocked him on everything.
[50:43] He couldn't find her.
[50:45] How do you think that boss planned it?
[50:48] Is that really possible?
[50:50] It exists, yes. But in these cases, in
[50:53] the past, they would usually ask if it
[50:55] was a gift or not. If it was a gift,
[50:59] it's very hard to get back.
[51:01] But if it really was for the sake of
[51:03] marriage, and it wasn't a gift, then
[51:05] there might be some hope. It just
[51:07] depends on how he proves they were
[51:09] building this for marriage at the time.
[51:12] Oh my. But I think there's another
[51:14] issue here, which is that for anyone—
[51:16] especially men—it’s not just about
[51:18] the money. No one should ever pin their
[51:22] own happiness or pain on someone else.
[51:24] Especially through deception.
[51:25] Especially since deception is just not
[51:27] —
[51:28] You can’t just put your money on
[51:30] someone else, because everyone is an
[51:32] independent, complete individual. And
[51:36] personally, I don't think anything is
[51:38] permanently fixed, so why would you
[51:40] force that kind of permanence onto
[51:42] someone else? I think it’s more like,
[51:45] enjoy the moment, that’s great, but
[51:47] you shouldn't obsess over whether it
[51:49] will last forever. Right. Actually,
[51:51] many breakups these days aren't about
[51:53] the emotions ending.
[51:55] It’s more like—for example, some
[51:57] girls who don't have much to their name
[51:59] —
[52:02] They look for someone to rely on,
[52:03] thinking, "As long as you provide for
[52:05] me, that's enough."
[52:07] If they get the money and then betray
[52:09] the person, the man is definitely going
[52:11] to feel like he was cheated. Mm.
[52:13] And it’s the same the other way
[52:14] around. Some men say, "You slept with
[52:16] me, and now you’re just walking away
[52:18] and not taking any responsibility." So,
[52:20] once these types of relationships end
[52:22] and there’s conflict, it gets really
[52:23] ugly. Yeah, it really boils down to the
[52:26] economic relationship.
[52:28] Not just economic; I think it also
[52:30] includes the time invested. I often see
[52:32] my friends, especially female friends,
[52:34] stuck in a wrong relationship but
[52:36] refusing to break up. They just keep
[52:39] dragging it out because of sunk costs.
[52:42] They think, "I've already been with him
[52:44] for five years. If I break up now,
[52:46] those five years were for nothing." So,
[52:50] the result is that they keep adding
[52:52] costs to a mistake—five years, eight
[52:55] years, ten years—until you're in so
[52:57] deep you can't even get out.
[53:00] Like waiting for someone who isn't
[53:02] coming home.
[53:02] Exactly. It’s because they feel
[53:04] they’ve already wasted those five
[53:06] years and they can’t let that time go
[53:07] to waste. But I think that just leads
[53:09] to an even bigger mistake. Look,
[53:11] honestly, take this girl for example.
[53:13] We don't fully understand women, but
[53:15] for a girl—
[53:16] I don't care how much people talk about
[53:19] gender equality now, I feel that if a
[53:21] girl, say, from age 21—
[53:23] Hmm.
[53:24] is with you until she's 29,
[53:25] Hmm.
[53:26] and then you break up.
[53:27] Hmm.
[53:28] This whole thing—
[53:29] Right.
[53:31] Can you really expect her to say, "Oh,
[53:33] it's fine, let's just be friends, our
[53:35] past is precious"?
[53:38] Do you really think that's—
[53:39] It's very hard. Anyway, I've also been
[53:41] in a long-term relationship, and you
[53:43] really do feel like you should get
[53:44] something out of it in the end.
[53:46] Otherwise, you feel like you've wasted
[53:48] your youth, and there's also the loss
[53:49] of other possibilities. You feel like
[53:52] you've been with him so long, even
[53:54] though others were pursuing you—like
[53:55] you could have been with them instead
[53:57] —so you'll inevitably have some
[53:59] resentment, or you'll think, "No, I'll
[54:00] keep waiting, maybe I'll get something
[54:02] better." But later, I realized that
[54:05] this mindset isn't healthy. This
[54:08] mentality is actually a bit like
[54:10] wanting to win, wanting to outdo the
[54:12] other person, which just leads me to
[54:13] keep pouring time and energy into the
[54:15] wrong place. I’d be better off with
[54:18] no hard feelings and just breaking up.
[54:22] But if a girl truly gives her prime
[54:24] years to a man and they end up with
[54:26] nothing, how should she view this?
[54:29] I think there is still gain and
[54:31] personal growth. I personally feel this
[54:34] way, and my mom raised me like this too
[54:35] —don't always think that love is just
[54:37] about giving and being taken advantage
[54:39] of. The things you gained—the
[54:43] happiness you experienced and the
[54:45] growth you achieved during that process
[54:47] —isn't that your reward? Must it all
[54:50] be measured by the final outcome, like
[54:52] getting half of his assets? I don't
[54:55] think so; you have grown yourself.
[54:58] And I agree that, yes, in our society
[55:01] today, given various conditions, it
[55:03] might be that a woman who breaks up or
[55:05] gets divorced in her 30s finds it
[55:07] harder to find another chance, or at
[55:09] least relatively harder than it might
[55:11] be for a man. But if you look back at
[55:15] the past ten-plus years, as just
[55:17] mentioned, have you been happy at all?
[55:20] Have you gained anything at all?
[55:22] Actually, what you've already attained
[55:24] is yours, so if you are calculating
[55:26] what you’ve lost, you haven’t truly
[55:28] lost those things yet; you’ve only
[55:30] lost potential opportunities. Since
[55:33] they were only potential, they might
[55:35] have happened, or they might not have.
[55:37] Mm.
[55:39] As I practice Buddhism—pardon me for
[55:41] bringing this up—it's true that the
[55:43] past is unattainable, and the future is
[55:45] also unattainable. If I worry now about
[55:48] things that haven’t happened yet,
[55:50] it’s just not worth it. And what has
[55:53] already happened cannot be changed; if
[55:55] I continue to worry about that, it’s
[55:57] equally not worth it.
[55:59] Mm.
[56:00] Mm. I think you should look at it from
[56:03] another angle. If you see them happy,
[56:06] and they see you happy, then you are
[56:08] both happy together.
[56:10] But if you see them happy, and they see
[56:11] you miserable, you have to think about
[56:13] what it’s like for these two to be
[56:14] together.
[56:15] What kind of feeling is that? In such a
[56:17] situation, you might as well let go.
[56:19] Mm.
[56:19] Therefore, I think no matter how many
[56:21] years have passed, provided there are
[56:22] no children involved.
[56:24] If there are children, it’s a
[56:25] different story, because at that point,
[56:27] you’ve brought a third person into
[56:29] this world without their consent. And
[56:31] since you brought them here, you
[56:33] can’t just say "I’m done with this"
[56:35] and split up. That is something I am
[56:37] strongly against. Even if it's just for
[56:39] the children, we should make it work
[56:41] until they are nearly adults. But if
[56:43] there are no children, if two people
[56:45] are unhappy, they should separate. I
[56:48] think one party just has to learn to
[56:49] accept it, thinking: "
[56:51] I really love you, I love you so much,
[56:53] so if you feel you’ll be happier
[56:54] without me, then I will let you leave."
[56:57] Mm. "
[56:57] I'd rather suffer through it myself."
[56:59] Right? Conversely, if they don't love
[57:01] you anymore and you insist on causing a
[57:03] scene, you make them miserable too, and
[57:05] because of this, these feelings are
[57:07] confined under one roof. Take domestic
[57:10] violence—why is it so terrifying?
[57:13] It’s because you have to see this
[57:15] person every day in the same space, and
[57:17] if they bully you—whether it's
[57:19] emotional or physical abuse. So,
[57:21] marriage is a very complex emotional
[57:24] state; you are close, yet it is easy to
[57:26] get hurt. Therefore, on this issue, if
[57:29] one of the two is truly in pain, [then
[57:32] it’s time to move on]. You should
[57:34] have a good talk with the other person,
[57:36] right? For example, even if there's a
[57:37] third party involved, I’d ask you: do
[57:39] you regret it or not? Are you really in
[57:41] love with them, or do you still have
[57:42] feelings for me?
[57:43] Get that question cleared up. If you
[57:44] still love me, I'll forgive you. If you
[57:46] truly love them, I’ll let you go.
[57:47] Hmm.
[57:48] Hmm.
[57:48] Oh. I think that way, your path in life
[57:50] might be much broader.
[57:52] Yeah.
[57:52] Because you’re doing so poorly, who
[57:53] knows, there might be another
[57:54] opportunity waiting for you.
[57:56] True. I once heard about the most
[57:57] tragic divorce. It was a man and a
[58:01] woman who got married, but they weren't
[58:02] really compatible to begin with. The
[58:06] man was quite educated, while the woman
[58:08] was just a regular factory worker.
[58:11] Later, the man fell in love with a
[58:13] woman more compatible with him. His
[58:16] wife couldn't handle it, so one day,
[58:18] she gave her twin children sleeping
[58:20] pills, took some herself, and set the
[58:22] house on fire. All three of them died.
[58:27] The man still went on to marry his new
[58:29] girlfriend, but he said that there was
[58:30] simply no possibility of happiness in
[58:32] their life together. His new wife then
[58:37] said that she felt like he was a stone
[58:39] wall every day; she felt she was facing
[58:41] a man who had turned into a wall. I was
[58:46] thinking, even if she "punished" the
[58:48] so-called cheater and the mistress, was
[58:50] it really worth it? That’s why I
[58:54] think that’s the most tragic story
[58:55] I’ve ever heard. Rather than seeing
[58:58] pain and being in pain yourself, it's
[58:59] better to just let go.
[59:01] Right, just like Fang Zhou said, right?
[59:03] Talk it out. Keep talking. If you don't
[59:06] like me anymore, that’s fine, let’s
[59:08] be friends tomorrow. That’s great,
[59:10] really great, really great.
