## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=0s) The Tetris Economy and the Illusion of the Iron Rice Bowl
The conversation opens on the unsettling nature of the modern economy: schools and universities are currently training young people for jobs that do not even exist yet, preparing them to wield technologies that have not been invented to solve problems no one has yet identified. In this climate, the old logic of simply "putting in your time" has completely broken down. Workers can spend decades painstakingly mastering a single craft or profession only to see the entire sector eliminated overnight. It is compared to manufacturing a mobile phone to be virtually indestructible, only for the product line itself to become utterly obsolete in the blink of an eye. The speakers observe that for today's youth, life no longer resembles stacking wooden building blocks to build a solid tower; rather, it has turned into a game of *Tetris*—where your achievements disappear the moment a line is completed, mistakes accumulate, and everything can vanish in a flash.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Evolution of Career Security Models
accDescr: Chart contrasting the predictability of the old state institutional system with the volatility of the modern Tetris economy.
subgraph Old["Traditional Institutional Model"]
A["State-Assigned Job / Danwei"] --> B["Guaranteed Housing & Meals"]
B --> C["Linear Path to Babaoshan Cemetery"]
end
subgraph Modern["The Tetris Economy"]
D["Specialized Training & Hard Work"] --> E["Sudden Technological Disruption"]
E --> F["Complete Skill Obsolescence"]
end
```
Dou Wentao reflects on his own formative years within the state-owned media system, admitting that back then, he never once spared a thought for what his next career step would be. Everything was arranged by the organization: even when crammed into a seven-square-meter bachelor dormitory, employees took comfort knowing the work unit would eventually allocate an apartment once they married. Living on cheap stir-fried beef ho fun day in and day out felt completely secure. Dou recounts a story he heard from a Beijing radio guest who explained why he eventually resigned from his comfortable institutional post: the man joked that sitting at his office desk, he could already picture every single intersection on the route from his office to the Babaoshan Revolutionary Cemetery. While that man fled from such suffocating predictability, the speakers note that ironically, this very predictability has become the unattainable dream of today's younger generation.
The panel pushes back against romanticizing this nostalgia, pointing out an inherent paradox in Dou's storytelling. Telling young people to simply accept their limits and "fish only in a pond as big as their reach" falls flat because Dou's own biography is a textbook narrative of upward mobility. Young people do not want to hear about eating beef chow fun in a cramped dormitory; they want to know the exact formula for how one moves from that seven-square-meter room to sitting in the host's chair on a prominent broadcast.
- **The Stacking Blocks vs. Tetris Analogy**: The previous generation built their lives by stacking stable bricks, whereas modern careers function like *Tetris*, where lines vanish and one miscalculation cascades into collapse.
- **The Seven-Square-Meter Dorm**: Dou Wentao's early accommodation in Guangdong, shared or endured as a bachelor, was made bearable by the institutional promise of eventual housing allocation.
- **The Babaoshan Cemetery Quip**: A Beijing office worker's realization that his career was so rigidly predetermined that his daily commute was effectively an uninterrupted path to his grave.
---
[02:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=155s) Globalization, Automation, and the Retreat into Identity
The discussion widens to examine why widespread economic precarity has fueled political upheaval across the globe. Job instability is not merely an individual misfortune but the signature consequence of globalization. The speakers argue that the resurgence of Donald Trump's base in the United States, the resurgence of right-wing parties across Europe, and the rise of trade protectionism all stem from a profound social anxiety. When economic anchors, institutional safety nets, and career guarantees evaporate, the only remaining source of certainty people can cling to is identity—primarily national, ethnic, or cultural identity. This dynamic explains the explosive rise of aggressive nationalism seen in India and across the West: when people cannot secure their livelihoods, they double down on identity as their psychological fortress.
Technological displacement accelerates this anxiety on a daily basis. A prominent domestic example is the phased elimination of bus conductors on Beijing's bustling Route 300; as soon as automated contactless IC transit cards were introduced, hundreds of human conductors suddenly found their lifelong roles declared redundant. Europe similarly attempts to pass legislation to artificially preserve human jobs, but the relentless tide of automation and artificial intelligence makes long-term resistance futile. Actuarial science, once considered an untouchable, ultra-lucrative pinnacle of professional study requiring grueling years of advanced exams, now faces obsolescence within a matter of seasons.
The physical reality of this contraction is captured in an image of a major stock exchange: an enormous trading hall spanning over a thousand square meters, which once hummed with thousands of shouting brokers, paper tickets, and glowing screens, has been hollowed out. Today, that vast, echoing cavern sits empty, managed entirely by a single computer humming quietly in the center of the floor. This ubiquitous terror of obsolescence explains the runaway commercial boom of "paid knowledge" platforms and self-help apps. These platforms do not merely sell practical skills like building PowerPoint decks; they profit directly by weaponizing future insecurity, convincing anxious professionals that failure to consume continuous micro-credentials will result in immediate social elimination.
- **Nationalism as an Anchor**: Intense nationalism in India, the US, and Europe operates as a psychological substitute for lost economic stability.
- **Beijing Route 300 Bus Conductors**: A prime domestic case of automation wiping out service workers through the introduction of card-swiping terminals.
- **Actuaries Under Threat**: A discipline long regarded as an academic gold standard now faces rapid marginalization due to algorithmic risk modeling.
- **The 1,000-Square-Meter Trading Floor**: Replaced entirely by a single centralized server, symbolizing the evaporation of white-collar finance jobs.
- **Knowledge-Payment Boom**: Platforms peddling self-improvement prosper by monetizing structural career dread.
---
[05:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=304s) The Anxiety of Missing Out: Blockchain, Insomnia, and Corporate Burnout
The speakers contrast the generational stakes of unemployment: in decades past, a laid-off worker might face hardship, but they typically owned their modest welfare home and carried minimal debt. If an urban youth loses their job today, they are immediately confronted with massive monthly mortgage obligations and exorbitant living costs. The fragility of contemporary professional life was driven home to one speaker whose daughter recently reached her 100-day milestone. The photographer hired to document the celebration turned out to be an accomplished photojournalist from a prestigious weekly magazine that had recently folded, forcing him to scramble for commercial freelance gigs in Beijing.
This pervasive fear of being left behind fuels frantic rushes into speculative trends. The speakers recount speaking with participants in the blockchain boom who admitted they were desperate to climb aboard because they had already missed the property speculation boom and missed the mobile internet startup wave. Failing to catch the blockchain train felt like an irreversible ticket to the economic scrapheap. Dou Wentao recalls listening to an impassioned speech by an internet tycoon who boldly proclaimed that with the simultaneous arrival of artificial intelligence and blockchain, "even sleeping has become a waste of time." Dou dryly mocks this hyper-competitive bravado, noting that the tycoon clearly does not suffer from insomnia; anyone who actually experiences insomnia knows that staring at the ceiling unable to sleep is an infinitely greater waste of time. Yet beneath the hubris lies genuine terror: people who are already wildly successful are working round-the-clock out of sheer panic that someone hungrier will supplant them.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: The FOMO Speculation Cycle
accDescr: Linear progression showing how missing prior economic booms forces professionals into frantic speculative bubbles.
M1["Missed Real Estate Boom"] --> M2["Missed Internet Startup Wave"]
M2 --> M3["Desperation for Blockchain / AI"]
M3 --> M4["Around-the-Clock Burnout & Sleep Deprivation"]
```
Even within traditional corporations, the dream of keeping one's head down and peacefully earning a living has vanished. A guest notes that theoretically, an employee in a large enterprise ought to be able to survive simply by swallowing their pride, minding their own business, not offending their managers or colleagues, and diligently executing their duties. In reality, internal corporate resources are limited, transforming office life into a ruthless zero-sum game with only one slot available for survival. When an exhausted worker attempts to step back and find solace in modest personal hobbies—such as tending flowers or going fishing—their social ecosystem revolts: their spouse complains, their parents object, and their children are trapped in high-stakes academic peer competition, dragging the individual right back into the competitive meat-grinder.
- **The Photojournalist's Pivot**: A veteran staffer at a beloved print magazine forced into commercial baby photography after the publication shuttered.
- **The Speculative FOMO Chain**: The psychological drive pushing professionals into blockchain and AI after missing previous real estate and internet wealth windfalls.
- **The "Sleep is a Waste of Time" Trope**: A celebrated tech mogul's slogan used to illustrate how extreme hustle culture masks deep existential anxiety.
- **The Zero-Sum Office**: Why basic diligence no longer protects workers when departmental quotas pit colleagues against each other for a single survival spot.
---
[07:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=447s) The Tyranny of Continuous Growth vs. The Wisdom of "Brother Six"
The conversation turns to the relentless escalation of corporate performance metrics, where simply maintaining a profitable, healthy status quo is treated as a managerial failure. Dou Wentao compares this environment to his television production days, when producers were "chased like dogs by ratings," but notes that today's corporate pressure is far more punitive. Dou recounts a conversation with an enterprise department manager who explained the company's internal incentive structure: within the final two months of the second half of the year, their division must post a mandatory 10% performance increase. Hitting that 10% threshold opens the door to promotion and potential stock options; missing that 10% target means the manager will be phased out and discarded entirely. Under such relentless ratchets, an employee cannot enjoy a single day of satisfaction—every milestone reached merely becomes the new baseline that must be exceeded the following month.
When the panel wonders whether taking the civil service exam (考公) offers an escape route, they concede that while the civil service offers comparative stability, it carries its own structural risks and internal constraints. Dou Wentao expresses deep admiration for figures like "Brother Six" (Zhang Lixian, founder of the independent cultural publishing studio *Duku*). When private venture capital came knocking with bags of cash, Brother Six deliberately refused to jump on the investment bandwagon. He chose instead to protect his employees from breakneck hyper-growth, prioritizing a steady, dignified workplace where the books balance, the business yields modest and sustainable profits, and workers have the room to take a breath. The segment concludes with Dou questioning the modern economic dogma: why is a stable, sustainable business that breaks even considered an embarrassment, and why must society insist that every month must violently outperform the last?
- **The 10% Bi-Monthly Ratchet**: A corporate department head must achieve a continuous 10% growth rate every two months to qualify for equity and retain their job; failing to hit the mark results in immediate termination.
- **Ratings Chased Like Dogs**: Dou Wentao's metaphor for the chronic, anxiety-driven working conditions inside traditional television broadcasting.
- **The Civil Service Alternative**: Recognized as a safer harbor than private tech, yet recognized as having its own administrative limits and systemic pressures.
- **The Model of "Brother Six" (Zhang Lixian / Duku)**: A deliberate rejection of venture capital in favor of steady margins, deliberate scale, and humane employee rhythms over manic financial expansion.
[09:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=567s) The Trap of Endless Desires and the Hidden Cost of Venture Capital
The conversation opens with a reflection on the endless rat race of ambition and whether the pursuit of expansion ever reaches a natural stopping point. One speaker explains their personal philosophy: in life, "you get what you lose." Gaining something inevitably means sacrificing something else. Having already achieved enough, they deliberately chose to step back from the perpetual chase, observing that when you spend your life running after success, you often don't realize that "actually it’s chasing you." By intentionally lowering their desires, they discovered a peaceful, autonomous life where they no longer have to report to or appease anyone. Conversely, when founders rush into aggressive comparisons and aim to make their enterprises big and strong right from the start, they lock themselves into an exhausting ride that quickly turns deeply uncomfortable.
To illustrate this dilemma, an anecdote is shared about meeting an investor who offered an unusually blunt reality check before any capital changed hands. Referencing another prominent industry figure, the investor asked plainly: "Are you prepared to change your current life?" He warned that accepting venture capital completely upends one's daily existence. Instead of enjoying personal freedom and creative autonomy, a founder suddenly has to be at the office by 8:00 AM every single morning and might not leave until 10:00 PM at night. The days are consumed by back-to-back meetings, entertaining stakeholders, managing relationships, answering to outside boards, and constantly being hounded by performance metrics and return-on-investment targets—all while still carrying the burden of actually producing the creative content. The investor framed it as a stark life choice: is making big money truly worth surrendering your lifestyle? The panel agrees that taking outside funding fundamentally transforms your mindset into that of a debtor: "once you get financing, it's like being in debt... You owe money."
- **The Investor's Dilemma**: Taking capital trades creative freedom for an 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM routine dominated by stakeholder appeasement and relentless KPI targets.
- **Financing as Debt**: Accepting investment creates a psychological and operational obligation that feels indistinguishable from owing money.
---
[11:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=678s) The Flight from Tier-1 Cities and the Economics of Creative Work
Turning to the pressures facing modern businesses, the discussion shifts from conventional corporate turnover to a broader demographic shift occurring in Beijing. The core staffing challenge is not ordinary job-hopping, but the reality that an increasing number of exceptionally bright, promising young professionals can no longer sustain a life in the capital. They arrive in Beijing, spend two or three years completing degrees or launching their careers, find a partner, marry, or have a child, and then promptly decide to leave. Their departure is not driven by moving away to spend wealth accumulated in Beijing, but by the sheer, suffocating cost of living.
This observation leads to a question once posed during a public lecture: "What tier would you say the city you live in is?" An unexpected discovery arose when examining cultural and editorial contributors (such as writers for literary platforms): the vast majority of long-form authors do not hail from Tier-1 metropolises like Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangzhou. Theoretically, Tier-1 cities should harbor the greatest concentration of talent and cultural devotion. In reality, urbanites trapped in Tier-1 cities can no longer afford to produce deep, long-form writing because the relentless cost of living forces everyone to evaluate every minute through a strict cost-benefit lens. In major cities, easy money is ubiquitous—attending promotional press events or planning sessions yields quick red envelopes (*hongbao*)—so few are willing to endure the grueling, low-paying craft of sustained writing. Nurturing one's intellectual and creative depth requires the breathing room of second- or third-tier cities, whereas Tier-1 cities simply drain young people of their blood and sweat before pushing them out.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Urban Environment vs Creative Depth
accDescr: Comparison of how living costs and pace of life influence creative output in Tier-1 cities versus smaller cities.
subgraph Tier1["Tier-1 Cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou)"]
A["High Cost of Living & Fast Pace"] --> B["Strict Cost-Benefit Thinking"]
B --> C["Quick Commercial Gains<br>(PR events, red envelopes)"]
C --> D["Erosion of Deep, Long-Form Creative Work"]
end
subgraph SmallerCities["Tier-2 & Tier-3 Cities / Hometowns"]
E["Lower Living Expenses & Slower Pace"] --> F["Reduced Financial Anxiety"]
F --> G["Space for Intellectual Cultivation"]
G --> H["Prolific, High-Quality Long-Form Writing"]
end
```
---
[13:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=789s) First-Tier Cities vs. First-Tier People: Defining True Caliber by "Reliability"
The conversation moves beyond the geographic classification of cities into first-, second-, and third-tier to pose a provocative personal question: "Are you a first-tier person, a second-tier person, or a third-tier person?" The speakers clarify that this distinction has nothing to do with elitism or social pedigree. Rather, it reflects innate caliber, personal poise, perspective, and breadth of vision. A person can reside in a glittering first-tier metropolis while possessing a narrow, third-tier mentality; conversely, an individual living in a third-tier provincial town can exhibit first-tier depth and sophistication. While subjective labels like "vision" can be difficult to quantify, the speakers agree that in daily life and professional management, personal caliber ultimately boils down to one fundamental quality: whether someone is truly "reliable" (靠谱).
Specialized technical skills—such as drafting news copy—are relatively easy to teach and acquire quickly. The true differentiator among workers lies in thoroughness and accountability. A frequent workplace failure occurs when an employee equates merely going through the motions with actually achieving an outcome: "Doing something doesn't mean you've accomplished it." Mediocre workers drop the ball and make excuses like, "Well, I told him." In contrast, a top-tier colleague anticipates friction points and closes every communication loop proactively, telling a colleague: "Fangzhou, did you understand? Be here tomorrow at three. Right, it might take a bit of time to get upstairs; you'll need an extra ten minutes to make it here." This instinctual diligence applies universally, even to menial tasks like cleaning a restroom. To illustrate how deep-seated craftsmanship can be, a speaker cites the memoir of an Italian writer (such as Primo Levi) who witnessed Jewish concentration camp prisoners meticulously laying brick walls with flawless precision, even though the prison walls they were erecting were part of the very camp where they were slated to be executed—because thoroughness was simply an ingrained personal standard that external misery could not erase.
- **Outcome vs. Effort**: Emphasizing the golden rule of accountability: performing an action (*doing*) is fundamentally different from ensuring the objective is achieved (*accomplishing*).
- **Proactive Communication**: High-caliber colleagues anticipate variables, budget extra travel time, and confirm mutual understanding rather than assuming verbal instructions suffice.
- **Dignity of Craft**: Meticulous execution is an internal habit of character, visible whether one is cleaning a restroom or laying bricks under extreme adversity.
---
[15:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=937s) Everyday Mastery: From Thoughtful Assistants to Street Vendors and Business Titans
To demonstrate what genuine reliability looks like on a micro level, the host shares a concrete experience from the recording set. Being exceptionally sensitive to heat and disliking sweating under the studio lights, he asked the crew to check the room temperature. An attentive young staff member didn't simply shout out an estimate; he placed a physical thermometer directly on the table, snapped a photo of it showing 22 degrees Celsius, and messaged it to the host's WeChat. Crucially, knowing the hosts were boiling water to brew hot tea, the staff member added a thoughtful note: "When I drink this tea, I feel my body temperature will rise a bit." That degree of empathy and proactive foresight represents the kind of indispensable employee everyone desires. While systemic social inequities certainly exist, the speakers argue that "there are bankrupt companies but no 'bankrupt' individuals"—someone with this level of conscientiousness and care will never starve, regardless of whether they are running a company or delivering lunch boxes.
The discussion illustrates this principle with everyday examples of people who turn humble roles into masterclasses of professionalism:
- **The Hyper-Observant Real Estate Agent**: The speaker chose his property agent primarily because the young man projected absolute trustworthiness and possessed extraordinary observational habits. The agent quietly memorized the homeowner's schedule, noted which days he left the neighborhood, identified the car he drove, and actively inquired if he needed assistance finding parking spots. Every Chinese New Year, he sent thoughtful, practical gifts such as rice, spring couplets, or fresh flowers. Naturally, he outpaced all his peers in career advancement.
- **The Jianguomen Cold Noodle Vendor**: A memorable cold noodle vendor operated a small street cart near Beijing's Jianguomen around a decade earlier. Customers willingly traveled long distances out of their way just to buy from him because he kept his attire immaculate and maintained his metal serving basins in an exquisite, spotless state, commanding immediate respect for his craft.
- **Wang Yung-ching’s Humble Beginnings**: The legendary Taiwanese industrialist Wang Yung-ching (founder of Formosa Plastics and once Taiwan's wealthiest tycoon) began his career running a modest rice shop alongside his brothers. His legendary rise was rooted in the same meticulous ethos: picking small gravel and husks out of the rice before selling it and providing detailed, personalized home delivery to his customers.
[18:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=1102s) The Art of Meticulousness: From Wang Yung-ching's Rice Shop to Hotel Housekeeping
The panel opens with an exploration of how extraordinary success often stems from attentiveness rather than innate genius. The discussion highlights the legendary Taiwanese industrialist Wang Yung-ching (王永庆), who got his start running a humble rice shop in an era when Taiwanese rice was notoriously mixed with gravel and sand. Ordinary households had to spend exhausting amounts of time washing and sifting through grains before cooking. Wang recognized this daily friction and painstakingly cleaned all the rice himself so customers could cook it immediately without extra labor. When he expanded to home delivery, he went even further: upon arriving at a customer’s home, he would inspect their rice container, pour out the remaining old rice, pour the fresh batch into the bottom, and place the older rice back on top so it would be consumed first and not spoil. By eliminating waste and building ironclad trust, his small enterprise flourished into an empire.
The conversation draws a parallel between Wang's conscientiousness and contemporary professional standards. Not everyone needs to be a once-in-a-generation polymath like Leonardo da Vinci; true distinction often reveals itself in basic craftsmanship. In publishing, for example, attentive editors like "Lao Liu" (Zhang Lixian) will consult authors over changing a single word out of deep respect for original intent, whereas sloppy editors arbitrarily slash text without notice. Similarly, frequent hotel guests notice that while housekeeping is often treated as entry-level manual labor, exceptional staff stand out through keen observation. One guest recalls staying at a hotel where a room attendant noticed he always pulled the tucked blanket ends out from under the mattress. The attendant adapted immediately, making the bed neatly without tucking the blanket ends in. Years later, that observant cleaner had risen to become the general manager of the entire housekeeping department.
- **Wang Yung-ching’s Rice Innovation**: Sifted out stones and sand beforehand, offered home delivery, and rotated customer rice stock (old rice on top, fresh rice on the bottom) to prevent spoilage.
- **The Editorial Parallel**: Respecting nuance by debating single-word edits versus thoughtlessly hacking text.
- **Service Mastery**: Housekeeping staff advancing to managerial roles simply by paying close attention to guest-specific living habits.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Detail-Oriented Habits to Long-Term Trust
accDescr: A process showing how small, thoughtful actions build professional reputation and career advancement.
subgraph Habit["Attentive Habits"]
A["Identify Hidden Friction"] --> B["Deliver Proactive Service"]
end
subgraph Impact["Compounding Trust"]
B --> C["Build Unshakeable Credibility"]
C --> D["Career Advancement & Growth"]
end
```
---
[21:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=1260s) The "Outstanding Ordinary Person" and the Deficits of Schooling
The dialogue pivots to an anecdote from nearly thirty years earlier during an exchange camp between Hong Kong and mainland middle school students. When asked to share their aspirations, the mainland students delivered grand, lofty speeches about world-changing ambitions. In stark contrast, one Hong Kong teenager simply stated that his dream was to become an "outstanding ordinary person" (卓越的普通人). In the mainland China of the 1980s and early 1990s, this concept was almost incomprehensible: culture only recognized grandiose heroics, leaving people to wonder how an ordinary person could ever be deemed outstanding.
Jiang Fangzhou reflects that true distinction comes from the unintentional, uncalculated moments of life. In an age dominated by social media posturing, people obsess over curating their outward image, yet life-altering breakthroughs often occur when someone notices you completely off-guard. Fangzhou recalls how her own editorial career began unexpectedly: an executive named Mr. Feng happened to watch her on a television broadcast, invited her in for an interview, offered her a job on the spot, and soon promoted her to deputy editor-in-chief—all stemming from work she had done without calculating any specific career payoff.
At the same time, the panel critiques conventional education. The years spent transitioning from middle school through university fail to equip young adults with fundamental vocational competencies, and in many respects, school conditioning directly opposes workplace needs. Young people entering society must find the courage to "reinvent themselves," unlearning academic habits to acquire basic life skills that universities never teach: how to collaborate with colleagues, how to articulate ideas clearly, and how to genuinely comprehend what others mean.
- **The Hong Kong Student's Goal**: Aiming to be an "outstanding ordinary person" contrasted sharply with the heroic, sweeping rhetoric common among mainland students in the late 20th century.
- **Jiang Fangzhou’s Career Path**: Discovered organically through an unscripted TV appearance, leading directly to an interview and an unexpected appointment as deputy editor-in-chief.
- **Educational Mismatch**: Higher education’s failure to instruct students in interpersonal coordination, clear professional communication, and office dynamics.
---
[23:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=1408s) Reliability in the Workplace: Decency Over Grand Ambition
Continuing the critique of post-graduate readiness, Liang Wendao observes a glaring discrepancy when traveling between Hong Kong and Beijing. Despite having degrees, recent college graduates in Beijing often lack the foundational capability to integrate into a functional work environment immediately, requiring an extended buffer period because they have never internalized what a professional attitude entails.
The speakers contrast eccentric, naturally gifted "geniuses" with reliable professionals. While society often romanticizes colorful personalities who disregard rules, such figures are prone to repeated stumbles. In everyday reality, the bedrock of any functioning enterprise is reliability (靠谱) and mutual responsibility. Being responsible is not about putting on an obsequious performance or flattering superiors; it is an ingrained habit of taking ownership of one’s choices, respecting boundaries, and treating peers with consideration. An individual who cultivates this decency may never possess grand historical ambitions, but their reliability makes them rare and invaluable, guaranteeing them a stable circle of trusted friends and a solid career footing.
- **Workplace Readiness**: Fresh graduates frequently struggle with basic professional demeanor, confusing academic completion with workplace competence.
- **Reliability vs. Genius**: Flamboyant, convention-defying figures frequently falter, while steady, accountable individuals build enduring social and professional capital.
- **Decency and Ownership**: Genuine professionalism requires taking full responsibility for one's output without relying on sycophancy.
---
[25:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3Akj3x8ak&t=1531s) A Global Crisis of Youth: Generation Z, Diminishing Dividends, and "Kenlao"
The conversation shifts from individual habits to macroeconomic headwinds, examining whether younger generations are struggling due to lack of character or structural economic shifts. Dou Wentao shares sobering statistics that he initially found difficult to believe. According to the International Labour Organization's *Global Employment Trends for Youth*, out of roughly 1.3 billion young people worldwide, 267 million are classified as NEET (neither in employment, education, nor training), relying directly on parental financial support.
This disillusionment is particularly pronounced among Generation Z (born 1995–2010). A 2023 US survey reveals that 65% of Gen Z—and 74% of those born after 2000—feel their personal financial progress lags far behind where their parents were at the same age. While older cohorts often accuse younger workers of being soft or lazy, young employees in cities like Shenzhen push back, pointing out that their parents rode the historic wave of explosive economic growth dividends. Today’s youth often clock longer, more grueling hours while taking home significantly less real wealth, forcing higher percentages to cohabitate with their parents. A Peking University China Family Panel Studies (CFPS) survey reports an astonishing jump in working-age adult children relying on parents ("kenlao" / 啃老), surging from less than 2% in 2010 to over 40% in 2018.
The discussion wraps up with wry domestic banter among the hosts. When Dou Wentao asks Xu Zidong and Ma Jia-hui whether they still give their grown daughters money, Ma Jia-hui jokes about a memorable movie line where a daughter tells her father: "You should cherish the fact that we still ask you for money." Both fathers reflect on how unimaginable it would have been during their own youth to graduate from college and remain financially tethered to their parents, underscoring the deep generational rupture between their past and today's reality.
- **ILO Youth Statistics**: 267 million out of 1.3 billion young people globally are disconnected from work or education and financially dependent on family.
- **US Gen Z Sentiment**: 65% of Gen Z and 74% of post-2000 respondents feel their financial trajectory lags behind their parents' generation.
- **Growth Dividends vs. Exhaustion**: Modern young professionals work longer hours under harsher pressures but miss out on the macroeconomic tailwinds enjoyed by previous generations.
- **China Family Panel Studies (CFPS)**: The measured adult parental dependency rate among the working-age population leaped from under 2% in 2010 to over 40% in 2018.
[9:27] actually it’s chasing you
[9:27] Are you prepared to change your current life?
[9:27] once you get financing, it's like being in debt... You owe money.
[13:09] Doing something doesn't mean you've accomplished it.
[15:37] there are bankrupt companies but no 'bankrupt' individuals
[21:00] 卓越的普通人
[25:31] You should cherish the fact that we still ask you for money.
[28:01] 我不可能过得像我父母那样好了
[33:54] 与其在外面被不靠谱的老板PUA，不如回家被亲生父母PUA。
[39:03] 只有迈出了第一步，才会有第二步和第三步
[52:16] 这样确实能活着，但他不会快乐。
Original transcript
[0:00] We are currently training students for
[0:03] jobs that don't even exist yet. In the
[0:06] future, they will use technologies we
[0:08] don't know about yet to solve problems
[0:10] we don't yet know exist.
[0:12] >> Yeah.
[0:13] >> That is this current era; no one can
[0:15] just "put in their time" anymore. If
[0:17] you keep waiting around, you'll end up
[0:19] unable to do anything—you'll just be
[0:21] obsolete. You may have worked deep in a
[0:23] profession for years, only to find it
[0:25] suddenly phased out. It's like building
[0:27] a mobile phone to be incredibly sturdy
[0:29] and durable.
[0:30] >> You make it perfectly. Then you realize
[0:33] it's obsolete in the blink of an eye.
[0:35] So, I don't think you can tell people,
[0:37] "Just hang in there, and you'll find
[0:39] the security you imagine." I think for
[0:41] young people today, life isn't about
[0:43] stacking blocks; it’s like Tetris—
[0:46] things can just disappear overnight.
[0:48] You’ve made that clear to me. I now
[0:51] realize that back when I was at a
[0:53] state-run institution, I honestly never
[0:56] thought about the next step. Yeah.
[0:59] >> I just didn't think about it.
[1:00] >> Everything was already arranged. For
[1:02] instance, it didn't matter that you
[1:04] lived in a seven-square-meter bachelor
[1:06] dorm; even if you started a family
[1:08] later,
[1:09] >> the station would eventually give you a
[1:11] place. If not, many couples just lived
[1:13] in that seven-square-meter room for a
[1:16] while.
[1:16] >> But it was stable, or rather, as I put
[1:19] in my years,
[1:20] >> Yes.
[1:21] >> Right? I could live like that my whole
[1:23] life, eating stir-fried beef and
[1:24] noodles forever, and no one would
[1:25] bother me. Recently, while taking a cab
[1:27] , I heard a guest on the radio
[1:28] recalling why he quit his job. Since he
[1:30] was a Beijinger with a great sense of
[1:32] humor, he said, "At that office, I knew
[1:34] exactly every intersection on the way
[1:36] to the Babaoshan cemetery." So he
[1:37] couldn't take it anymore and had to
[1:39] quit. Yet, that is exactly the kind of
[1:41] life so many people yearn for today.
[1:43] >> But going back to your experience,
[1:45] there is actually a problem with it.
[1:47] >> It's as if you want to tell young
[1:49] people, "At every stage, just look at
[1:51] yourself and accept that this is all
[1:52] your ability can handle." I'll just
[1:54] settle for this. Assume you can only
[1:56] fish in a pond as big as your own reach
[1:58] .
[1:59] >> But the problem is, your own story is
[2:00] one of constant upward progress. Yes.
[2:03] >> Then the next question those kids will
[2:05] immediately ask is, "How can I follow
[2:07] your path of constant growth? Why can't
[2:10] I?"
[2:10] >> It’s not that I mean it was a smooth
[2:12] path upward; it’s just that when I
[2:14] was eating beef chow fun back then,
[2:16] >> I thought it would be like that for my
[2:18] whole life.
[2:18] >> You think it's a commentary, I think
[2:21] it's a life-long problem. But the thing
[2:23] is, today's young people don't want to
[2:25] see you eating beef chow fun; they want
[2:27] to see the you who is sitting here
[2:29] today.
[2:30] >> They care about how you made it from
[2:31] eating beef chow fun to where you are
[2:33] now; that’s the first thing. I feel
[2:35] this is a desire everyone has, and it
[2:38] cannot, it cannot be extinguished. But
[2:40] you just mentioned job instability;
[2:42] actually, that has long been the
[2:44] greatest impact brought about by
[2:46] globalization. Otherwise, look at why
[2:48] there are so many Trump supporters in
[2:50] the U.S. now, including many young
[2:52] people, and the return of right-wing
[2:54] politics in European countries, or the
[2:56] rise of trade protectionism—it’s
[2:58] all because society feels so insecure.
[3:00] So, the nationalist tides in many
[3:02] countries around the world are getting
[3:04] stronger; for example, it's very
[3:05] intense in India and many other places.
[3:07] Why is it so intense? It’s because
[3:10] when there is nothing in society that
[3:12] makes you feel secure, you still have
[3:13] one thing left that makes you feel
[3:15] secure, and that is identity.
[3:16] >> My national identity, my only sense of
[3:19] certainty.
[3:20] >> A couple of years ago, the conductors
[3:22] on the 300 bus route, they sort of
[3:25] expressed their wish because people can
[3:27] swipe cards now, so buses no longer
[3:30] need conductors.
[3:31] >> Right.
[3:32] >> So they lost their jobs.
[3:33] >> Hmm.
[3:34] >> Yes.
[3:35] >> They want to keep their jobs; it’s
[3:36] like how Europe is still trying to save
[3:38] some jobs for humans.
[3:38] >> And it will only get worse in the
[3:40] future. For example, with the
[3:41] development of AI and automation, more
[3:43] people will be unemployed. For instance
[3:44] , a couple of years ago, I remember
[3:46] many people were still studying to be
[3:47] actuaries.
[3:48] >> Hmm.
[3:49] >> Yes, it was very popular. And how hard
[3:51] it is to study actuarial science! You
[3:53] study for years, keep taking exams for
[3:55] certifications, yet now, perhaps
[3:56] starting next year, the actuarial
[3:57] profession will gradually fade away.
[3:59] There was a news photo a few years ago
[4:01] of a certain stock exchange. When it
[4:03] was built, it was a massive hall of
[4:05] over a thousand square meters.
[4:06] >> It was filled with thousands of people
[4:09] and thousands of computers.
[4:10] >> Now, that huge hall has just one
[4:13] computer sitting quietly in the middle.
[4:15] >> And then, if you look at why "paid
[4:18] knowledge" platforms or self-help
[4:20] courses are so popular now, if you look
[4:22] closely, they aren't just teaching you
[4:25] simple skills like how to make a
[4:27] PowerPoint. They emphasize, tell you,
[4:29] that it's because the future is just
[4:31] too insecure.
[4:32] >> You never know what else you might need
[4:34] to prepare for.
[4:35] >> It's not just that the future is
[4:37] insecure; what you're saying makes me
[4:38] realize the present is, too.
[4:40] >> Exactly.
[4:41] >> If you lose your job nowadays, you
[4:42] still have a house.
[4:43] >> Right?
[4:44] >> You don't have too many monthly
[4:45] payments, but what if a young person
[4:47] loses their job?
[4:48] >> Hmm. Yeah, look, if I were back in my
[4:51] day, that issue compared to today might
[4:54] mean this platform or medium.
[4:56] >> It might not survive and could be
[4:58] replaced by other media immediately.
[5:00] Your job, you wouldn't even be able to
[5:01] afford a stir-fried beef ho fun;
[5:03] that’s the problem.
[5:04] >> A while back, when my daughter turned
[5:06] 100 days old, I hired a photographer.
[5:08] That photographer was from a weekly
[5:10] magazine I really liked back in the day
[5:12] .
[5:12] >> Hmm.
[5:16] >> That photojournalist, after the
[5:18] magazine folded, came to Beijing to
[5:21] work for a commercial company. It’s
[5:26] like me asking someone in blockchain, "
[5:28] Why are you so desperate to get on this
[5:30] train?" Because he said he missed out
[5:33] on real estate speculation and internet
[5:35] startups, he felt if he didn't get on
[5:37] the blockchain train, he'd be left
[5:39] behind and totally eliminated. Exactly,
[5:42] and now, this kind of feeling about the
[5:45] future. Like, I heard an internet
[5:47] tycoon speaking calmly to everyone,
[5:50] sounding very excited, you know,
[5:52] talking about blockchain and all that.
[5:54] He said, with blockchain technology and
[5:57] artificial intelligence right before
[5:59] our eyes, I tell you, starting tomorrow
[6:02] , even sleeping is a waste of time. I
[6:04] think he definitely doesn't suffer from
[6:07] insomnia, you know? He probably doesn't
[6:10] know what it's like to sleep.
[6:11] >> Right, if you have insomnia, you’d
[6:13] know that being unable to sleep is an
[6:15] even bigger waste of time, you know?
[6:17] But his point is, he's afraid of being
[6:20] left behind.
[6:20] >> People more successful than you are
[6:22] working even harder than you. Right,
[6:24] and actually, take brother Liu, for
[6:27] example, back to the most basic state,
[6:30] when a person works, let's not even
[6:32] talk about hobbies. They should be able
[6:35] to support themselves.
[6:37] >> I feel that in a stable, large
[6:39] organization, if you work hard. You
[6:42] know, swallow your pride, get along
[6:44] with those around you, don't offend
[6:45] your boss, don't offend colleagues.
[6:47] >> Complete the tasks assigned to you
[6:49] earnestly and carefully. I feel, isn't
[6:52] that stable? Can't that last for a long
[6:55] time?
[6:55] >> It's not easy, because why? His unit
[6:58] has limited resources, so it leads to a
[7:00] zero-sum game or something, you know?
[7:03] For example,
[7:04] >> there’s only one spot for survival.
[7:06] >> What do you do?
[7:07] >> Exactly.
[7:09] >> You end up in a miserable state. Some
[7:11] people have hobbies—like growing
[7:13] flowers or fishing—to balance their
[7:14] mindset.
[7:15] >> But the people around them won't have
[7:16] it, and their wives won't have it.
[7:18] Right, right. Or your parents won't
[7:21] have it, and your kids won't either, as
[7:23] they're busy competing with others. So
[7:25] it affects a person's...And you know,
[7:28] the way I feel now is that market
[7:30] competition is becoming increasingly
[7:33] fierce. I feel there's this issue where
[7:36] maintaining the status quo is
[7:38] impossible. You know, for instance,
[7:41] when I deal with people in the business
[7:43] world, I notice their employees are
[7:46] under immense pressure.
[7:47] >> This immense pressure is like how we at
[7:50] the TV station used to say we were
[7:52] chased like dogs by the ratings, right?
[7:54] >> The problem lies in the layers of
[7:56] pressure; the issue is that, you see...
[7:58] For example, if you make a profit.
[8:00] >> Yeah.
[8:01] >> Profit is good, right?
[8:03] >> But,
[8:03] >> the goal...
[8:05] >> This department manager told me that
[8:06] their incentive mechanism works like
[8:08] this:
[8:08] >> I must increase by 10%in the next two
[8:11] months of the second half of the year.
[8:13] Once I hit that 10%, my position
[8:15] improves, and with the flexible
[8:18] distribution mechanism, I might even
[8:20] get company shares.
[8:22] >> But if I don't reach that 10%...I might
[8:25] not even be able to stay, right?
[8:27] >> I'd be pushed out.
[8:29] >> So I feel this is troublesome; there
[8:31] isn't a single happy day.
[8:33] >> Your work makes progress,
[8:35] >> Yeah.
[8:36] >> But it never stops; next month it has
[8:37] to be even higher.
[8:38] >> Would taking the civil service exam
[8:40] solve it? No, there are issues there
[8:42] too. Are civil servants okay?
[8:44] >> Civil service is considered relatively
[8:46] stable. But there are still risks.
[8:49] That’s why I, for instance, like a
[8:52] boss like Brother Six, right? He makes
[8:55] me, the employee, feel like I can take
[8:58] a breath. Like with his book studio,
[9:01] they've encountered venture capital and
[9:04] all that, but he didn't jump on that
[9:06] bandwagon.
[9:08] >> Right? You just keep doing it this way.
[9:13] Can't you just have stable profits and
[9:15] balance your books today?
[9:17] >> Just like this,
[9:19] >> and keep going like that. Why wouldn't
[9:22] that work? Why is everyone always
[9:23] thinking about more, wanting this month
[9:25] to exceed last month, and next month to
[9:27] exceed this month? Don't you think this
[9:29] is endless? Is it?
[9:31] >> Well, my own philosophy is that you get
[9:33] what you lose, right? Whatever you gain
[9:36] , you will also lose something. For me,
[9:38] I felt I had already gained enough, so
[9:40] I didn't want to keep chasing; because
[9:43] if you keep chasing, it’s like
[9:44] you’re chasing after it, but actually
[9:47] it’s chasing you.
[9:48] >> Mm.
[9:49] >> So if I lower my own desires, I find
[9:51] that I live quite well, and I don't
[9:54] have to report to anyone anymore.
[9:57] >> If you want to grow big and strong and
[9:59] engage in all sorts of comparisons
[10:02] early on, you’ll enter a state where,
[10:04] once you're on that ride, it becomes
[10:07] very uncomfortable.
[10:09] >> That's true. I met an investor last
[10:11] time who I thought was quite
[10:13] interesting. He told me, he said, "
[10:15] You're preparing for some kind of
[10:17] financing or whatever, but Mr. Du, let
[10:20] me give you a heads-up first." He gave
[10:22] an example of another big shot in the
[10:25] industry. He asked, "Are you prepared
[10:27] to change your current life?" I asked
[10:30] what he meant, and he said that once
[10:32] you get funding and want to grow, you
[10:34] go from not having to work to...
[10:37] >> Now, you're in the office at 8 AM every
[10:39] day.
[10:40] >> And you might not leave until 10 PM.
[10:42] >> What are you doing? You're meeting all
[10:45] kinds of people all day long, because
[10:47] you have to provide returns for various
[10:48] interests, deal with them, socialize
[10:50] with them, report to people, and be
[10:52] chased by performance metrics at the
[10:54] same time. Right, chased by performance
[10:56] . At the same time, you still have to
[10:58] produce the show. He said you have to
[11:00] make that choice: do you want to live
[11:01] this life just to make big money? Mm.
[11:03] >> Yes.
[11:04] >> I think once you get financing, it's
[11:06] like being in debt.
[11:08] >> What do you mean?
[11:09] >> You owe money.
[11:11] >> That's a way to put it.
[11:12] >> You mean like debt, right?
[11:14] >> Yes, it's very uncomfortable, really
[11:16] uncomfortable.
[11:17] >> Maybe you'll end up liking it, though.
[11:19] I think the situation my own company is
[11:21] facing isn't really about people
[11:23] job-hopping; I think that's actually
[11:25] fine. But what is it then? I can
[11:27] clearly feel that the issue in Beijing
[11:29] is actually...
[11:29] >> Mm.
[11:30] >> More and more young people today—very
[11:32] bright, excellent young people—come
[11:34] to Beijing for two or three years,
[11:36] maybe finishing their studies here or
[11:38] finding a job here. Or coming from
[11:40] other places to look for opportunities.
[11:42] Uh, they might have a partner, get
[11:44] married, or even have a child, and at
[11:46] that point, they choose to leave
[11:48] Beijing. I’ve noticed this situation
[11:50] happening more and more, and it starts
[11:52] right here—
[11:52] >> Earning money in Beijing to go live
[11:54] elsewhere.
[11:55] >> No, actually, the biggest reason he
[11:56] wanted to leave our company was simply
[11:58] that he couldn't stay in Beijing
[12:00] anymore.
[12:00] >> Oh.
[12:01] >> Because the cost of living in Beijing
[12:03] is just too high, so he went elsewhere.
[12:05] I’ve noticed more young people making
[12:07] that choice now. When you mention that,
[12:09] it reminds me of a time he asked people
[12:11] during a speech: "What tier would you
[12:14] say the city you live in is?"
[12:15] >> Oh, right, right, exactly.
[12:17] >> Yeah, that’s quite interesting. Hmm.
[12:21] >> Why would I ask that? Because I
[12:23] discovered—I suddenly realized one
[12:25] day that most of the authors on "Du"
[12:26] are not from Beijing, Shanghai, or
[12:27] Guangzhou. Theoretically, people from
[12:29] those cities should be the most
[12:30] talented.
[12:30] >> Hmm.
[12:31] >> And love culture.
[12:32] >> Love culture, but why aren't they?
[12:34] Because people in Beijing, Shanghai,
[12:35] and Guangzhou can no longer write such
[12:37] long-form texts. That's true.
[12:39] >> They can no longer do things without
[12:40] worrying about the cost-benefit ratio.
[12:41] >> Right.
[12:42] >> Besides, it’s so easy for people in
[12:44] those cities to make money. You just
[12:45] attend planning meetings or press
[12:46] conferences all day and walk away with
[12:48] a red envelope. Who would still do this
[12:49] kind of grueling work? So most people
[12:51] just nurture—
[12:52] >> Hmm.
[12:53] >> Nurturing oneself, you still have to be
[12:55] in a smaller city.
[12:56] >> Hmm, in second or third-tier cities,
[12:57] you can fully cultivate your knowledge
[12:59] and what you have inside you.
[13:01] >> Or, you can flee to Beijing and get
[13:03] your blood and sweat drained away. Hmm.
[13:05] >> Or you can just keep living a
[13:07] comfortable life in your hometown.
[13:09] >> But right, there’s also this concept
[13:11] where you always love talking about
[13:12] first-tier cities, second-tier cities,
[13:14] and third-tier cities.
[13:15] >> But—
[13:16] >> Have you ever thought about people?
[13:18] >> Are you a first-tier person, a
[13:19] second-tier person, or a third-tier
[13:21] person?
[13:21] >> How do you explain that?
[13:23] >> I think, let’s put aside any talk of
[13:26] elitism here.
[13:27] >> Why, we’re all Chinese.
[13:29] >> Right, because it’s not that. It
[13:32] really is true that in terms of poise,
[13:34] perspective, and personal style, there
[13:36] are definitely differences in caliber.
[13:38] >> Hmm.
[13:40] >> Some people live in first-tier cities,
[13:42] but they are third-tier people. And
[13:44] some live in third-tier cities, but
[13:46] they might be first-tier people.
[13:47] >> Right. Right? And of course, we aren't
[13:50] necessarily encouraging Beijing.
[13:51] >> What’s the difference between
[13:52] first-tier and third-tier? It’s about
[13:54] perspective, vision, breadth of view,
[13:55] and interests.
[13:56] >> I can't put it perfectly into words,
[13:58] but maybe the person you see as
[13:59] first-tier looks third-tier to someone
[14:01] else. This whole "first-tier vs.
[14:04] third-tier" thing is very subjective.
[14:06] >> Let me put it this way: let's just talk
[14:08] about whether someone is reliable or
[14:11] not.
[14:11] >> For example, if I'm hiring an employee,
[14:14] when I talk about whether someone is
[14:16] reliable, I might not understand highly
[14:18] specialized technical skills, but for
[14:21] most of the work I've encountered, I've
[14:23] found it all comes down to whether that
[14:26] person is reliable or not.
[14:29] >> Honestly, take writing news, for
[14:31] instance—these are all skills you can
[14:33] learn quickly. But you'll find, and I
[14:38] often tell my colleagues this, that the
[14:40] difference between some of you is...
[14:43] well, what is it? It's about
[14:45] thoroughness in getting things done.
[14:47] Just because I said it doesn't mean you
[14:49] heard it.
[14:49] >> Hmm.
[14:50] >> Hmm.
[14:51] >> Doing something doesn't mean you've
[14:53] accomplished it. I often say this
[14:55] because I've noticed many people mess
[14:57] up and then just say, "Well, I told him
[14:59] ."
[14:59] >> Hmm.
[15:00] >> But another colleague—you'll notice a
[15:02] difference in their personality, or
[15:04] perhaps their caliber—they would say:
[15:06] "
[15:06] >> Fangzhou, did you understand?""
[15:08] >> Be here tomorrow at three.""
[15:10] >> Right, it might take a bit of time to
[15:12] get upstairs; you'll need an extra ten
[15:14] minutes to make it here."
[15:15] >> Yeah. People like that, I think
[15:18] everyone likes to hire them. It’s
[15:20] just that, even when you're asked to do
[15:22] a task, many people will say after the
[15:24] fact when being held accountable, "Hey,
[15:26] I did it, I didn't know it would end up
[15:27] like this." And I tell them, doing
[15:29] something doesn't mean you've
[15:30] accomplished the goal.
[15:31] >> Don't make excuses; it's not about
[15:33] being a first-class or second-class
[15:34] person. Sometimes you can see these
[15:36] fundamental differences in your
[15:37] employees.
[15:37] >> Some people can clean a restroom better
[15:39] than anyone else.
[15:40] >> Right.
[15:41] >> That’s their ability, that’s their
[15:43] caliber. I remember reading about an
[15:45] Italian writer who was imprisoned in a
[15:47] concentration camp. He noticed that the
[15:50] Jewish prisoners would build the walls
[15:52] —even the walls of their own prison
[15:54] —incredibly well, even though it was
[15:56] their own place of confinement.
[15:58] >> And in the end, it was the place where
[16:00] they were to be executed.
[16:01] >> Exactly, but they were so thorough in
[16:03] doing it because that was just their
[16:05] habit.
[16:06] >> We have an employee who works with us
[16:08] here. Let me tell you, for example,
[16:10] while we're recording this, I'm more
[16:13] sensitive to heat than you are; I
[16:15] really hate sweating.
[16:16] >> So I tell them, "Tell me what the
[16:18] temperature is," and you can see it
[16:20] right there in my WeChat.
[16:21] >> Hmm, hmm.
[16:23] >> He took a thermometer, placed it right
[16:25] here, and took a picture for me, saying
[16:27] it was 22 degrees,
[16:28] >> but then he wrote something else for me
[16:30] . However, we were here boiling water
[16:32] to make tea,
[16:33] >> and he said, "When I drink this tea, I
[16:36] feel my body temperature will rise a
[16:38] bit." Mm.
[16:39] >> Hey, would you want an employee like
[16:41] this? Mm.
[16:42] >> I would.
[16:44] >> It’s very simple; just look at the
[16:46] situation and how this person handles
[16:48] things. You ask why I’m so interested
[16:50] in what he says; well, on one hand,
[16:52] there are many social reasons that need
[16:55] to be acknowledged, but on the other
[16:57] hand, why are there bankrupt companies
[16:59] but no "bankrupt" individuals?
[17:01] >> Sometimes you feel that it shouldn't
[17:03] get to that point; if you are this kind
[17:05] of person, I don't believe you would
[17:06] ever go hungry.
[17:07] >> Even if you were just delivering lunch
[17:09] boxes, you would stand out. For
[17:11] instance, the real estate agent I used
[17:13] to buy my house—a major reason I
[17:15] chose him was that he looked incredibly
[17:18] trustworthy, like a younger version of
[17:20] a loyal friend. Also, he was
[17:22] exceptionally observant. He knew which
[17:24] days I left the neighborhood, when I
[17:26] wasn't around, what kind of car I drove
[17:28] , and even asked if I needed help
[17:30] finding a parking spot. He was very
[17:32] detailed. Every Chinese New Year,
[17:34] he’d send rice, spring couplets, or
[17:36] flowers. You eventually realize that
[17:38] among his peers in the same industry,
[17:40] he’s the one who gets promoted the
[17:42] fastest.
[17:43] >> I don’t know if anyone watching our
[17:45] show remembers a small stall that sold
[17:47] cold noodles near Jianguomen about 10
[17:49] years ago.
[17:50] >> Ah.
[17:51] >> It left such a deep impression that you
[17:53] were willing to travel far just to buy
[17:54] his noodles because he dressed so
[17:56] cleanly and neatly, and the whole—
[17:57] >> Even the little basin he used to sell
[17:59] the food was just, you know—
[18:00] >> Exquisite.
[18:02] >> Right, you just felt that he was truly
[18:04] worthy of your respect. Mm.
[18:06] >> Take Wang Yung-ching, for example. I
[18:08] saw something about him the other day
[18:10] —he was the richest man in Taiwan
[18:11] back then. I forgot what industry he
[18:13] went into later, was it selling rice?
[18:15] >> Selling rice. The street where he and
[18:18] his brothers grew up—whether it was
[18:20] Taipei or another Taiwanese city—was
[18:22] full of rice shops.
[18:23] >> What was his unique talent? He noticed
[18:27] that a lot of the rice sold in Taiwan
[18:29] at the time was full of sand.
[18:32] >> So, before cooking, people in Taiwan
[18:34] had to put in a lot of effort to wash
[18:37] and pick through the rice first.
[18:39] >> After realizing this, he made sure his
[18:42] rice was the cleanest, picking it all
[18:44] out for you.
[18:45] >> People used to say that the rice Wang
[18:47] Yung-ching sold could be washed and
[18:48] cooked directly, without needing that
[18:50] extra process.
[18:51] >> And then, what did he think of next? He
[18:54] offered to deliver it to their homes,
[18:56] back in the early days, right?
[18:58] >> But you couldn't really call him sneaky
[19:00] or cunning. When he delivered to their
[19:03] homes, he would check their rice
[19:04] storage.
[19:06] >> He was so detail-oriented that he would
[19:09] first pour out their old rice.
[19:11] >> Then he’d put the new rice at the
[19:13] bottom.
[19:14] >> And place the old rice back on top.
[19:15] >> To keep the old rice from getting even
[19:17] older.
[19:17] >> To keep the old rice from getting even
[19:19] older.
[19:20] >> By doing this, he built trust, everyone
[19:21] bought from him, his rice shop took off
[19:23] , and eventually, he built an even
[19:25] bigger business.
[19:25] >> So I’m saying, it really comes down
[19:28] to two aspects.
[19:29] >> The objective environment matters, but
[19:31] you also notice there are always
[19:33] certain individuals.
[19:34] >> You realize they don't necessarily need
[19:37] to be a genius like Da Vinci. I’m not
[19:39] saying you have to be a genius—that's
[19:42] not it at all. Often, when I work with
[19:44] people—take publishers, for example
[19:47] —some editors are just incredibly
[19:49] meticulous! They are so thoughtful that
[19:52] even when they change one word.
[19:53] >> They discuss it with you first, fearing
[19:55] they might have misunderstood your
[19:56] intent.
[19:57] >> That's how Lao Liu would change things.
[19:59] >> Yeah. But then some people just slash
[20:01] and delete everything without even
[20:03] asking you; that’s where the
[20:04] difference lies.
[20:05] >> Yeah.
[20:06] >> That’s why I sometimes pay attention,
[20:08] for instance, when I frequently stay at
[20:10] hotels. I’ve discovered that when you
[20:12] stay at a hotel, everyone thinks of the
[20:14] housekeeping staff. These cleaners.
[20:16] >> Yeah, right.
[20:18] >> Most people probably view it as a very
[20:20] basic, entry-level service job, don't
[20:22] they? But even in that kind of work,
[20:24] some people are just different. And
[20:26] because I’ve stayed at a few hotels
[20:28] for years, I’ve witnessed this
[20:30] difference firsthand. I noticed how
[20:32] this person cleaned my room—I got to
[20:34] know them—every day after they
[20:36] finished and I returned, I noticed they
[20:38] paid attention to my habits. For
[20:40] example, you know how many hotels tuck
[20:43] the blanket ends in? They saw I always
[20:45] pulled them out, so later, they stopped
[20:47] tucking them in but still made the bed
[20:49] neatly underneath. Yeah.
[20:51] >> One time, I wondered, who is this
[20:53] person? Many years ago I noticed
[20:54] someone at a hotel, and when I returned
[20:56] a few years later, he had already
[20:57] become the manager of the entire
[20:58] housekeeping department.
[20:59] >> Right.
[21:00] >> It’s that kind of person—almost 30
[21:02] years ago, I was covering a summer camp
[21:05] for Hong Kong middle school students
[21:07] visiting the mainland, where they were
[21:09] having a joint event with a school
[21:11] summer camp in one of our cities.
[21:13] >> Mm.
[21:14] >> Everyone was talking about their dreams
[21:17] . The mainland kids’ dreams were all
[21:19] very lofty and ambitious.
[21:21] >> Mm.
[21:21] >> One kid from Hong Kong said he wanted
[21:23] to be an "outstanding ordinary person."
[21:25] >> Mm.
[21:26] >> Mm.
[21:27] >> Mm.
[21:29] >> Honestly, if you think back to the 80s
[21:31] or early 90s, the phrase "outstanding
[21:34] ordinary person" was almost
[21:36] non-existent in our history.
[21:38] >> Mm, right.
[21:40] >> Right?
[21:41] >> We were, at that time, his...How can an
[21:43] ordinary person be outstanding?
[21:45] >> Mm, I think perhaps being an
[21:47] outstanding person is exactly what
[21:49] Master Wendao just mentioned. In
[21:51] today’s society, you never know what
[21:53] you’re doing or where you are when
[21:55] someone might see you. We seem to focus
[21:57] on showing our best side to others
[22:00] because of social media, but actually,
[22:02] sometimes the unintentional details in
[22:05] your life, or the points that trigger
[22:07] your transformation, are exactly when
[22:09] you are being seen by someone you
[22:12] didn’t expect, without you even
[22:14] noticing. Take my career path, for
[22:17] example—it was because Mr. Feng
[22:19] happened to watch an episode of my show
[22:21] at the magazine and thought, "Let’s
[22:23] interview him.""After interviewing me,
[22:26] he thought," Why don’t you come work
[22:27] for us? "" Then after I started working
[22:29] , he said, "Why don’t you be the
[22:30] deputy editor-in-chief?""It was
[22:32] completely unexpected. So, things you
[22:34] don’t see and don’t pay attention
[22:36] to, even the work you do without a
[22:38] specific purpose—these details might
[22:40] be the biggest catalyst for changing
[22:42] your life. Actually, I also want to
[22:44] remind young people today that the
[22:45] education we received from middle
[22:47] school to university isn't actually
[22:49] very good.
[22:49] >> Right.
[22:50] >> In fact, much of that education is even
[22:52] contrary to their future career
[22:54] requirements and professional training.
[22:56] >> Mm.
[22:57] >> So a young person needs to have enough
[22:59] courage to reinvent themselves.
[23:00] >> Mm, mm.
[23:02] >> They have to get rid of the concepts
[23:04] and habits they formed during middle
[23:06] school and university.
[23:08] >> For example?
[23:09] >> Uh, I think it’s about how a person
[23:13] works.
[23:13] >> Mm.
[23:14] >> Right, universities probably never
[23:16] taught that.
[23:17] >> Exactly.
[23:18] >> How to get along with colleagues.
[23:20] >> Right.
[23:20] >> How to express what you mean and how to
[23:22] understand what others mean—these are
[23:24] the most basic things that university
[23:26] ...
[23:26] >> I completely agree. I find that, as I
[23:29] travel back and forth between Hong Kong
[23:32] and Beijing, what strikes me most is
[23:34] that in Beijing, these recent college
[23:36] graduates—everyone is a college
[23:38] graduate.
[23:39] >> Often, the graduates here don't have
[23:41] enough ability to enter the workplace
[23:44] immediately.
[23:45] >> You feel they still need some time.
[23:47] >> Because they have never truly learned
[23:49] what work is, or what attitude to take
[23:51] toward work; this point really
[23:53] surprises me.
[23:53] >> Yes. Yes, and actually, I think one can
[23:57] draw inferences about other cases from
[23:59] this one point.
[24:00] >> Regarding this" excellent ordinary
[24:02] person "you mentioned, I think there is
[24:05] a type of person in human society who
[24:07] has personality.
[24:08] >> Right? They don't follow conventions,
[24:10] and we find them quite lovable.
[24:12] >> Natural-born geniuses. Natural-born
[24:15] geniuses or those who don't sweat the
[24:16] small stuff; I like these kinds of
[24:18] people too. Many of my friends are like
[24:20] this, but it seems they are also more
[24:22] prone to stumbling. Uh, generally
[24:25] speaking, I think, for example, the
[24:27] person we were just talking about, is
[24:29] reliable at work. Hmm.
[24:31] >> And then, it’s actually about being
[24:33] responsible to others.
[24:34] >> Just as Fang Zhou said, it’s not that
[24:36] you are intentionally putting on a show
[24:38] .
[24:38] >> It’s that it has become a habit; this
[24:41] is how you treat people and things, and
[24:43] your work is the same. Even in the end,
[24:47] when you make friends, you might not
[24:49] have such a big personality, but over
[24:52] time, friends feel that this person is
[24:54] trustworthy, responsible for me,
[24:57] thoughtful, caring, and considerate of
[24:59] a friend's needs. If you go on living
[25:02] like this, I don't think you need to
[25:03] have grand ambitions.
[25:05] >> You will have a circle of friends in
[25:07] society. And you shouldn't be doing
[25:09] poorly at work.
[25:10] >> Right? Because I don't think there are
[25:12] many such people; they are too rare.
[25:13] >> Right?
[25:14] >> Hmm.
[25:15] >> This means once a person enters the
[25:17] workplace, it’s not that you have to
[25:18] flatter others to be considered a good
[25:20] employee.
[25:21] >> Yes, they act with self-respect and are
[25:23] very decent. Responsible for their own
[25:26] actions, right? Taking responsibility
[25:28] for your own choices is already very
[25:31] good. So, Brother Liu, even if you are
[25:33] in a third-tier city, you have to think
[25:35] about whether the people in the
[25:37] first-tier are changing; this includes
[25:39] the West, which is also actually
[25:41] changing. I recently looked at some
[25:43] figures. I really doubt these figures.
[25:46] >> So much so that I question whether
[25:48] these numbers are real, even though
[25:49] they seem quite authoritative.
[25:51] >> Hmm. Can you imagine? The International
[25:54] Labour Organization released the 2020
[25:57] Global Employment Trends for Youth—it
[25:59] might be worse now—out of 1.3 billion
[26:01] young people globally. How many are not
[26:04] working? 267 million.
[26:07] >> That's a lot.
[26:09] >> 267 million rely on their parents for
[26:13] care and financial support. Also, a
[26:17] 2023 survey on Generation Z in the US
[26:21] shows. Do you know what Gen Z is?
[26:24] >> 1995 to 2010. See, Mom knows better,
[26:28] right? 65%of Gen Z and 74%of those born
[26:32] after 2000 feel their financial
[26:34] progress is far behind their parents '
[26:37] generation. Yeah.
[26:39] >> Understand? It means we used to think
[26:42] kids were lazy and couldn't endure
[26:44] hardship, but now, many young people in
[26:46] Shenzhen say," I...you...the truth is,
[26:48] you were the generation that enjoyed
[26:50] the dividends of economic growth. We
[26:52] young people today sometimes work
[26:54] harder than our parents and work longer
[26:56] hours, but we can't make that much
[26:58] money anymore. "In other words, you see
[27:00] , this is a global phenomenon. They
[27:02] believe their financial progress is far
[27:04] behind their parents' generation, and
[27:06] the percentage of them living with
[27:07] their parents is also much higher than
[27:09] in the past. Right, data from a China
[27:11] Family Panel Studies survey by Peking
[27:13] University regarding the rate of adult
[27:14] children relying on parents among our
[27:16] working-age population. I...I can't
[27:19] believe this number. It says the rate
[27:22] of relying on parents jumped from less
[27:25] than 2%in 2010 to over 40%in 2018.
[27:28] >> 40%. I think there might be an issue
[27:32] with how they define" relying on
[27:34] parents. "Professor Zidong, do you give
[27:36] your daughter money now? Jiahui, do you
[27:38] give your daughter money?
[27:40] >> I don't give her money, but I remember
[27:42] a line from a movie, spoken by a
[27:45] daughter." You should cherish the fact
[27:47] that we still ask you for money. "
[27:49] >> Yeah, exactly.
[27:50] >> If she really asks me for money, I
[27:52] should cherish the opportunity, right?
[27:55] >> When we were young, this was
[27:57] unthinkable.
[27:57] >> Like, right after college graduation.
[28:00] Back when we were in college, it was
[28:01] already very difficult for our parents
[28:03] to support us.
[28:03] >> What's the reason? Do you know? For
[28:06] most Chinese families today, the source
[28:09] of their wealth is housing.
[28:10] >> And housing was something only the
[28:12] parents 'generation—the ones now in
[28:14] their 40s and 50 s—managed to acquire
[28:17] during that transition period. But for
[28:19] young people today, those under 30, it
[28:21] is extremely difficult to buy a house
[28:23] relying solely on their own income.
[28:26] Therefore, once real estate becomes the
[28:28] primary family asset, the children's
[28:30] generation cannot surpass their parents
[28:32] '.
[28:32] >> Right, right, that's true.
[28:34] >> They can't surpass their parents, no
[28:35] matter how hard they work.
[28:37] >> Even if your salary is high, you still
[28:39] might not be able to surpass your
[28:41] parents, so that explains this 40%
[28:43] figure. But there is a bigger situation
[28:46] worth worrying about. You just
[28:48] mentioned—I recently had a French
[28:50] friend return. He is the only Asian, or
[28:53] Chinese, person in a high-level
[28:56] administrative position at a European
[28:59] university. I asked him," When did
[29:01] European young people start feeling
[29:04] that tomorrow wouldn't be better? "He
[29:07] said after the 90s.
[29:09] >> Hmm.
[29:11] >> He said that after the 90s, young
[29:13] people in Europe didn't think about
[29:15] whether the world would be better in 20
[29:18] years; instead, they thought," I won't
[29:20] be able to live like my parents. ""
[29:24] >> I can't have a house like them. "They
[29:27] weren't wealthy people, you see.
[29:30] >> They weren't business people; they
[29:32] likely had professional jobs, graduated
[29:35] from college, and by the time they were
[29:38] 50 or 60, they generally had two houses
[29:40] —one in the city, one in the suburbs,
[29:43] and so on. But young people now, in
[29:45] their twenties and thirties, feel that
[29:48] when they grow old, they won't reach
[29:50] that state, nor do they have the luxury
[29:52] of passing one of those houses down to
[29:55] their children. You have two sons
[29:57] waiting for you; think about it, how
[29:59] can you live better than your parents
[30:02] did?
[30:02] >> But think about it—how can your
[30:05] little children expect to live the way
[30:07] you do in the future? This is a global
[30:10] problem.
[30:13] >> Let me ask you, not about your kids
[30:16] with Iron Man—I mean, aside from your
[30:19] cute five and seven-year-old—let's
[30:21] not talk about the Nordic conditions,
[30:24] but say we are in China, then...
[30:28] >> People see that Iron Man has a good job
[30:31] , earns a good living, and you have
[30:33] property and savings. When this child
[30:35] grows up in the future...The money he
[30:38] earns can only afford him a, say,
[30:40] relatively average life. Then, if he
[30:42] wants to further pursue his ideals,
[30:44] wants to continue his education, or
[30:46] even just wants to drift for a few
[30:48] years, even until he is 30. But you
[30:50] clearly have the means to support him.
[30:52] Would you support him?
[30:54] >> Support, parents.
[30:56] >> Just a moment ago, you said you might
[30:58] not necessarily leave a house for your
[31:00] son, right? I have discussed it with
[31:02] Iron Man, too, saying we might not be
[31:03] able to do what our parents did—you
[31:05] know," Here's a house for you. "However
[31:07] , I want to give him the chance to have
[31:09] options. What I mean is, if he tells me
[31:11] today," I want a house, "I might not be
[31:13] able to give him one. But if you tell
[31:15] me," I need a bit of money, I want to
[31:17] study abroad, "or" I want to drift for
[31:19] a few years, as long as you aren't at
[31:21] home... "I just hope the effort I put
[31:23] in now is to allow you the chance to
[31:25] choose. Technically speaking, one
[31:27] should create these opportunities for
[31:29] oneself.
[31:30] >> Right, you should work on yourself or
[31:32] something, but as I said earlier,
[31:34] relying on your parents to build upon
[31:37] what you already have is reasonable,
[31:39] but being completely dependent on them,
[31:41] I don't think that's okay. I mean, if
[31:44] they said they wanted to come back to
[31:45] take care of me, I wouldn't want that;
[31:47] after I had kids, I studied psychology.
[31:49] >> Had kids and studied psychology, was
[31:51] there a problem? After having kids,
[31:53] >> Because you know, I'm terrified that
[31:55] one day—parents are like this, right?
[31:57] This love is so deep, but have you ever
[32:00] thought that giving so much love is
[32:02] ultimately to prepare them to leave?
[32:04] And they'd better not look back. Just
[32:06] like a bird spreading its wings to fly
[32:08] high, right? It just leaves us.
[32:10] >> Exactly, not looking back and not being
[32:13] attached; that is successful parenting,
[32:15] right? And you know, letting go is
[32:17] necessary. I don't want to use my tears
[32:20] or my eventual mental instability to
[32:22] make them feel guilty, thinking I
[32:24] shouldn't have left, I shouldn't have
[32:26] flown away, I shouldn't have gone so
[32:29] far, and I should have kept coming home
[32:31] . No, my feeling is that I need to be
[32:35] independent myself, and then, let you
[32:38] fly comfortably. Right, so that's why I
[32:41] say I studied psychology. If you want
[32:43] to come back, as I said before, it
[32:45] shouldn't be about money; it should be
[32:47] a purely clean relationship. Only if
[32:49] you truly feel that this home brings
[32:52] you joy and mental support would you
[32:54] want to return, and then we absolutely
[32:56] would. What if they don't want to work?
[32:59] >> Would you keep supporting them?
[33:00] >> So, the values we want to cultivate now
[33:03] are—well, you know I lived at home
[33:04] until I was 27 before I left for Hong
[33:06] Kong. Before that, I didn't think there
[33:09] was any problem with a girl living at
[33:10] home until 27, especially since I
[33:12] wasn't married. But when I got to Hong
[33:15] Kong, and now abroad, when people heard
[33:18] I lived at home until 27, everyone was
[33:20] incredulous, asking why I stayed so
[33:23] long; 27 isn't 12, right? And I said,
[33:26] what's the problem? It's very normal in
[33:29] Asia. They said, but if you don't leave
[33:31] —like a bird not flying out of the
[33:33] nest—you don't know what's out there,
[33:35] and you don't know your own reality. It
[33:37] means these children at home are very
[33:39] comfortable, and parents provide what
[33:41] is needed, right? But I think you'll
[33:43] end up forgetting your own capabilities
[33:45] . You won't have the chance to
[33:47] experience failure. Only when you have
[33:49] the ability can you truly dare to start
[33:51] the next family. No, many full-time
[33:54] adult children today face the reality
[33:57] that going out isn't as wonderful as
[34:00] they imagined; they feel they lack
[34:02] opportunities to train or excel. That's
[34:07] their perspective. They suffer, getting
[34:11] scolded by bosses, working 996, earning
[34:14] low wages. It's different from the
[34:17] previous generation because for the
[34:20] past decade or so, we've entered a
[34:22] so-called" risk society. "
[34:25] >> In the past, you could map out a path,
[34:28] enter a field, and know roughly how
[34:30] much you'd earn or what stage you'd
[34:33] reach. Now, that's gone. Every three or
[34:36] four years, there's some crisis or
[34:39] economic collapse. They face so many
[34:42] things, and there's a 90%chance that
[34:44] after working for a few years, their
[34:46] personality will become more twisted
[34:49] than yours, right? You might see a
[34:52] therapist or study psychology, but they
[34:55] are twisted. Not to mention the
[34:58] physical toll; it's very painful, a
[35:00] huge difficulty for them. So, from this
[35:05] perspective, if parents have the means
[35:07] to ease their children's hardships, I
[35:09] personally don't see any problem with
[35:12] that, but there really aren't many good
[35:14] options out there. Exactly.
[35:18] >> This is definitely a retreat, a
[35:20] compromise. When I see some reports now
[35:23] , I imagine that lonely little boy from
[35:25] contemporary paintings, standing in the
[35:28] wilderness of Northern Europe,
[35:30] seemingly desolate, just like those
[35:32] working as full-time children at home.
[35:36] Actually, the main problem is not
[35:39] finding an ideal job; that's the
[35:41] biggest issue. Few people truly believe
[35:44] this is a long-term solution, but look,
[35:47] they have a saying. They say," Rather
[35:49] than being gaslit by an unreliable boss
[35:51] outside, I'd rather be gaslit by my
[35:54] parents. "But I think, aren't they
[35:56] being gaslit? Just by taking their
[35:59] parents 'money, you know? I think this
[36:02] exposes a lot of things deep within
[36:04] human nature. If you don't take your
[36:06] parents' money. The way your parents
[36:09] treat you has a certain limit. But once
[36:12] you take their money, or they support
[36:15] you, or they help pay your mortgage,
[36:17] the level of their interference is
[36:19] completely different.
[36:21] >> Right? So some young people swear,"
[36:24] I'll never take their money again, I'm
[36:27] done with it. "But when they end up
[36:29] taking the money again the next month,
[36:31] it feels terrible. Many parents start
[36:33] nagging the moment they give you money:
[36:35] " Why don't you have a boyfriend yet? "
[36:37] " You, what, no, we're getting old,
[36:39] don't you need to leave us a grandchild
[36:41] ? "" That grandchild, and you're just
[36:43] drifting out there all day, what are
[36:44] you even doing? "You can choose not to
[36:47] listen. But on one hand, you're still
[36:49] taking their money. And on the other,
[36:51] they’re lecturing you about it every
[36:53] single day. Oh, when I think about
[36:55] these kids, these young people,
[36:57] they’re really something. Living at
[37:00] home means relying on your parents '
[37:02] finances, staying under their
[37:04] protection. Regarding parents helping
[37:07] you pay the mortgage, I think that's a
[37:10] different matter; supporting a mortgage
[37:12] is really helping a child become
[37:14] independent. It's crystal clear, and
[37:19] the goal is for the property to
[37:21] appreciate and for you to have assets
[37:24] later, which is different from hiding
[37:26] at home to avoid the struggles of the
[37:28] world. If you think about it, life is
[37:33] really made up of two currencies. One
[37:36] currency is money. And what is the
[37:39] other one? Time. When people look back
[37:48] at their middle age or youth, if
[37:51] there’s one thing they regret, it's
[37:53] seeing people on the subway and in the
[37:56] streets trading their time for a
[37:58] pittance just to survive.
[38:07] >> So when we look back, I completely
[38:09] agree with your point about values:
[38:11] parents want their children to succeed,
[38:13] to be independent, to be strong, and
[38:16] they believe that's worth supporting.
[38:23] But to get a bit abstract and
[38:25] philosophical, if what you do isn't
[38:27] driven by interest or meaning, but
[38:30] purely by profit, then you’re just
[38:33] trading your time for money.
[38:38] >> Avoid it if you can. There’s a
[38:41] paradox in finding one’s way that is
[38:43] very hard to prove; what is there to
[38:45] prove? The so-called meaning—you have
[38:48] to find the meaning of work, your own
[38:50] interests, and so on. Sometimes you
[38:53] have to—let's be more abstract—you
[38:55] have to figure it out through hardship;
[38:58] it's hard to say," Okay, I'll support
[39:01] you for two years. ""
[39:03] >> Stay home and think about what I want
[39:05] to do, where my interests lie, what my
[39:07] capabilities are, and calculate it all
[39:09] out. "" Then, okay, two years are up,
[39:11] now I'll go out. "It’s very difficult
[39:14] . Those of us who have worked for
[39:16] decades all know that the first step
[39:18] you take leads you to the second, and
[39:20] the second leads you to the third. I
[39:23] often say this to young people when
[39:25] they ask," Mr. Ma, what kind of job
[39:28] should I look for? "" Should I take
[39:30] this job or not? "I always remind them.
[39:35] It’s often about whether this job has
[39:37] the chance to lead you to the next step
[39:39] , though I’m just preaching—most of
[39:41] the time, we don't know either.
[39:46] Sometimes you just get what you get, so
[39:49] just take that first job; you might get
[39:52] manipulated, overworked, or underpaid.
[39:55] But inside that job, you might discover
[39:57] where your mentors are. You learn from
[40:00] those mentors, and then you find your
[40:02] opportunity. I did a boring job for ten
[40:06] months, and on the first day of the
[40:09] 11th month, I suddenly met a partner—
[40:11] and Youting, I learned so much from him
[40:14] ; he was discussing a project and asked
[40:16] me to collaborate, you know, you never
[40:19] know.
[40:22] >> This is a very positive outlook on life
[40:25] .
[40:26] >> It means you can’t just ask if
[40:28] you’re interested or if what you’re
[40:30] doing has meaning. It might look like I
[40:34] have no interest and no purpose, and
[40:37] I’m just doing it for a little money,
[40:39] but it could transform—for example,
[40:42] say I’m a ticket taker at a cinema,
[40:44] right? After taking tickets for ten
[40:47] months, I end up knowing how to write
[40:49] short stories. You really don’t know;
[40:52] life is an accumulation. I truly
[40:54] believe that, from when I left home at
[40:57] 27 for Hong Kong, looking back, that
[40:59] time in Hong Kong was my lowest point.
[41:02] But without that...
[41:03] >> Hong Kong was your low point?
[41:05] >> Really.
[41:06] >> Is that so? What do you take me for?
[41:09] What do you take us for? So, are we
[41:11] your low point in life? There’s no
[41:14] real parent company, yeah, right. But I
[41:17] mean, I hit my lowest point, and now
[41:19] looking back, I truly feel that without
[41:22] all of that—life needs a story to be
[41:25] interesting, right? Your story can’t
[41:29] always be at the peak, so I think you
[41:32] must go out and explore, and you must
[41:34] encounter lows, just like beating a
[41:36] level in a game. In a game, if you feel
[41:39] like you died, you just turn the
[41:41] machine on again the next day, and
[41:42] you’re alive again. Fully resurrected
[41:45] .
[41:45] >> Fully resurrected, exactly, everything
[41:46] is just a matter of perspective.
[41:48] >> Youting, using video games as an
[41:49] analogy is great, playing games...
[41:51] >> Speaking of your hobbies.
[41:53] >> There’s a key element in gaming:
[41:55] unlocking.
[41:55] >> Exactly.
[41:57] >> Unlocking, unlocking new abilities or
[41:59] weapons. It is very hard to just sit in
[42:02] one place and suddenly unlock
[42:04] achievements, skills, or ideals. It is
[42:07] difficult. You have to be out there
[42:10] colliding with the world, even during
[42:13] your so-called low points or when you
[42:15] feel burnt out, that is when certain
[42:18] parts can be unlocked. But when it
[42:20] comes to being a full-time daughter,
[42:23] let's not forget that there is a large
[42:25] group of people who want to be
[42:27] full-time daughters but have no way, no
[42:30] ability, no parents with the means, or
[42:32] the right conditions. I've heard from
[42:35] some young friends that there is
[42:36] actually quite a bit of conflict
[42:38] between these two groups. Seeing my
[42:40] friends or my besties quitting their
[42:42] jobs to become full-time daughters, I
[42:44] think," Hey, I want that too, okay? I
[42:46] want it too, but I don't have the
[42:48] luxury. My parents don't have money,
[42:50] and I still have to work. "In a way,
[42:52] this complaint is a bit of a humblebrag
[42:54] . Right.
[42:56] >> No, in a sense, this complaint also
[42:58] shows that social wealth is increasing.
[43:01] Come to think of it, in an absolute
[43:03] sense. Compared to when we were young,
[43:05] wouldn't you say that the proportion of
[43:07] people who don't have to worry about
[43:08] food and clothing is much higher?
[43:09] Hasn't China eradicated poverty? Right?
[43:13] So, just like what Ma mentioned before,
[43:14] having you home for dinner is just an
[43:16] extra pair of chopsticks. There is a
[43:18] concept in Japan called" parasite
[43:20] singles. "
[43:20] >> It refers to this group of people who
[43:22] don't want to get married. But they
[43:24] live with their parents, covering their
[43:26] main living expenses with their parents
[43:28] ' support, while maybe picking up a
[43:30] part-time job for pocket money. In
[43:31] Japan, many people live like this their
[43:34] entire lives. So this is also a
[43:36] lifestyle—a symbiosis with parents,
[43:39] you know? Nowadays, some parents are
[43:43] quite interesting, too. They say," I
[43:45] don't want my child to go out and
[43:48] suffer. If you want to work, go work,
[43:50] but if you want to stay here, that's
[43:52] fine. My pension can support you, "
[43:54] giving them a choice, right? But behind
[43:57] the scenes, besides the conflict
[43:59] between these two groups—the jealousy
[44:01] , envy, and resentment—
[44:03] >> Right.
[44:04] >> We should also note that the so-called"
[44:07] shared family "has different lifestyles
[44:09] . They can be together; it's not just
[44:11] about you acting as my domestic
[44:13] assistant, we can actually plan things
[44:16] together. Certain things, especially in
[44:18] the internet age—I know in Hong Kong,
[44:21] where life is perhaps too tough,
[44:23] everyone is trying to find ways to make
[44:25] money. Some families have children
[44:27] living at home who open online shops
[44:29] together. It's quite fun; they find
[44:31] small items to wholesale. Parents and
[44:34] daughters—the parents may not
[44:36] understand the platform's operation,
[44:38] but they have the capital. The daughter
[44:40] understands it. Instead of being my
[44:42] full-time daughter at home, why not try
[44:45] doing some side gigs? Look, your
[44:47] full-time job is being my daughter, but
[44:50] on the side, we can partner up. Let’s
[44:53] start a small online shop; I’ll cover
[44:55] the costs. What do many other Hong Kong
[44:58] families do then? Daughters stay home
[45:01] to help trade stocks and flip houses,
[45:03] you know? You have free time, Mom
[45:06] doesn't. Since you're free, go house
[45:08] hunting every day; it’s Hongkongers '
[45:11] favorite activity, looking at
[45:13] properties. Checking listings online
[45:15] every day—if it were me, Mom would
[45:18] definitely say," Take a break. "House
[45:21] hunting. Since real estate is out, they
[45:23] trade other things.
[45:24] >> Just take a break. Hey, this is fun,
[45:27] and it makes sense. Because in Hong
[45:29] Kong these past two years, real estate
[45:31] has been sluggish, and people still
[45:32] want to invest and make money, so they
[45:34] find fun ways to do it. Looking for
[45:36] bank fixed deposits. Because every bank
[45:38] has different interest rates, and they
[45:40] change every day.
[45:41] >> Changing every day.
[45:43] >> Hey, you kids keep an eye on it for me.
[45:45] Compare rates for me daily." Oh, Bank A
[45:49] is higher today, up to 3.7%for a
[45:51] two-month term, "tell me immediately,
[45:54] and I’ll move that money over."
[45:56] Tomorrow, that bank is 3.8%, "I’ll
[45:59] move it again. It’s fun; I’ve even
[46:02] played it.
[46:04] >> You’ve played it? Which bank? Let me
[46:07] tell you, in Hong Kong, I actually made
[46:10] some interest. A bank finance manager
[46:14] told me that if you convert your money
[46:16] to British pounds, the interest for
[46:18] these two months is much higher than
[46:20] the Hong Kong dollar rate. I don't know
[46:24] why, but the interest is clearly higher
[46:27] . So, I deposited a bit. I later found
[46:30] out it was true, but it’s all
[46:32] short-term—just one or two months. I
[46:34] thought this was a great trick. It
[46:36] basically felt like financial freedom,
[46:38] right? I said, I won't do anything else
[46:40] , I'll just flip this, isn't that good?
[46:42] Just doing it every day. So that day, I
[46:44] bit the bullet, right? Then I just
[46:46] moved the money in.
[46:47] >> Quickly invest, quickly.
[46:49] >> Invest, but you know, because we work
[46:51] every day, our brains...
[46:52] >> Hmm.
[46:53] >> Already forgot.
[46:55] >> Already forgot, and then?
[46:57] >> In and out.
[46:58] >> One day, I checked my account and there
[47:00] was only a few dollars left. Ah.
[47:03] >> How could that be?
[47:04] >> Just the savings account.
[47:05] >> Oh.
[47:07] >> It scared me! You know, I at least
[47:10] gained this experience—have you ever
[47:12] experienced your money in the bank
[47:14] suddenly becoming zero?
[47:17] >> Wow, my mind just went blank, thinking,
[47:20] " What do I do? Should I call the bank?
[47:23] "
[47:23] >> Right.
[47:24] >> Couldn't explain it clearly at all.
[47:26] >> Hmm.
[47:27] >> My whole day, my mental state, it felt
[47:30] like—even in broad daylight, it felt
[47:32] pitch black, I was truly seeing stars,
[47:35] I thought my life was over.
[47:36] >> Hurry up and tell us how it ended, the
[47:38] suspense is killing me!
[47:40] >> It was just another situation where I
[47:42] moved all my existing savings into that
[47:45] one-month account.
[47:46] >> I switched to a different account.
[47:48] >> Right, I don't really get how this
[47:50] works, but when you check, your savings
[47:52] account just looks empty, you know?
[47:54] This whole thing just goes to show how
[47:56] clueless I am.
[47:57] >> This just proves how clueless I am, I
[47:59] was scared to death. Their strategy is
[48:02] to attract money from other banks, so
[48:04] they give you high interest for three
[48:06] months, but after that, you have to
[48:08] transfer it back in time—aren't you
[48:10] busy enough?
[48:11] >> Right? I’m just getting more and more
[48:13] forgetful these days, you know?
[48:14] You’ll have completely forgotten
[48:16] about something that happened two
[48:17] months ago.
[48:17] >> Humumblebragging again—if you have
[48:19] enough money to forget about, then my
[48:22] retirement depends on that, too. I
[48:24] thought I’d run into some kind of
[48:26] scam. You and your scam rings, really.
[48:29] >> That’s because you’re a busy,
[48:31] important person; many of my friends,
[48:33] including me, actually enjoy it. When
[48:35] they ask what I’ve been up to lately,
[48:37] I say I'm busy filling out forms,
[48:39] moving money here and there every day,
[48:42] and I find it so fulfilling, like I’m
[48:44] actually making a profit. The banks
[48:46] have had me pinned down for years;
[48:48] rates used to be so low, it’s only
[48:50] been two years since they’ve been
[48:52] high. Finally, I’m getting my own
[48:54] back! 3.8%here, fill out a form, 3.85%
[48:57] there, fill out another form, 3.9%!
[49:00] It’s incredibly satisfying.
[49:02] >> What is the financial relationship
[49:04] between children and parents in Finland
[49:06] like?
[49:06] >> I would say they don't dare to.
[49:09] >> Originally they didn't want to rely on
[49:11] them, but in the last year or two,
[49:13] because the global economy is doing so
[49:15] poorly, the news keeps talking about
[49:18] how Finnish children now need their
[49:20] parents' help to afford a home. But if
[49:22] this has been headline news for the
[49:24] past two years, that means it’s a new
[49:26] trend, right? Meaning in the past
[49:28] >> It will soon become a common value,
[49:31] exactly.
[49:31] >> But what I find interesting is their
[49:33] final conclusion: government-subsidized
[49:35] housing in Finland isn't just something
[49:37] you can buy or live in whenever you
[49:39] want. In many places, within a single
[49:42] community, one building might be
[49:44] reserved exclusively for artists; you
[49:46] need a music conservatory degree or
[49:48] proof of performance credentials just
[49:50] to be eligible to buy into that
[49:52] building. And in one building, in a
[49:55] good district, there might be floors
[49:57] reserved only for people below a
[49:59] certain income level to buy, and the
[50:02] property price can't be market rate;
[50:04] that's the artist's building, it's not
[50:06] the same building. It's different.
[50:10] Artists are artists, but if you zoom in
[50:13] , if you look at it with a drone, you
[50:15] get the sense that when they planned it
[50:18] , they wanted to mix different people
[50:20] together.
[50:22] >> So you wouldn't know which one, you
[50:24] wouldn't walk over and say this is
[50:26] where the poor live, right? No. And
[50:28] then, he...they want the wealthy to
[50:30] live here too, because they believe
[50:32] that once anyone is connected to the
[50:34] community, they will be invested in it.
[50:37] Once you identify with it, you want to
[50:38] build it up, or your children—some
[50:40] children, as we say, have better
[50:41] resources—will have better
[50:43] development, and they will influence
[50:44] the kids around them because you are
[50:46] all playing in the same school, right?
[50:48] So the idea is that this way, we can
[50:50] all improve together.
[50:52] >> Professor Xu, let me ask you a question
[50:54] .
[50:54] >> This is a big philosophical question:
[50:57] is economic independence a necessary
[50:59] prerequisite for spiritual independence
[51:02] ?
[51:02] >> Without economic independence, is it
[51:04] impossible to have spiritual
[51:06] independence? There are certainly rare
[51:08] exceptions, but generally speaking, it
[51:09] should be the case. Then which one must
[51:12] be independent first?
[51:13] >> Huh?
[51:14] >> Which independence leads to the next
[51:15] one?
[51:15] >> It is generally believed that without
[51:16] economic independence,
[51:17] >> one cannot have spiritual independence.
[51:19] >> Could there be spiritual independence?
[51:21] What do you think?
[51:22] >> But what is the meaning of this
[51:23] independence? I mean, we've talked so
[51:25] much, I think we've set the bar very
[51:27] high, for example, saying you need a
[51:29] house, or a certain level of income.
[51:31] But just now we mentioned that the
[51:33] Finnish government seems to give a lot
[51:35] of money, but they give a very basic
[51:36] amount, meaning they won't let you
[51:38] spend more than you need.
[51:39] >> I was just about to ask, how much can a
[51:42] mother receive?
[51:43] >> First-time mother,
[51:44] >> First-time mother total.
[51:46] >> First child, not first-time mother,
[51:47] becoming a mother for the first time.
[51:49] >> Around 600 Euros.
[51:50] >> Per, per month?
[51:52] >> Per month.
[51:53] >> 600, that's about 5,000 Hong Kong
[51:54] dollars. Five or six thousand dollars,
[51:56] yeah.
[51:56] >> Right.
[51:57] >> Hey, that's not bad. If you have more,
[52:00] you get a bit more for each additional
[52:02] one.
[52:02] >> But it's not like 600 Euros becomes
[52:03] 1,200 Euros for the second one; it's
[52:04] not that kind of addition, right, right
[52:06] , right. As in, have ten and get 60,000
[52:08] .
[52:09] >> No, no, no, no, no, no.
[52:11] >> Stop acting like an Iron Man, just
[52:13] focus on one thing every day.
[52:16] >> Europeans don't see China's system this
[52:19] way; they have many different details.
[52:23] It’s really about this issue of
[52:25] parents financially supporting their
[52:27] children. I actually think that despite
[52:31] all this talk of an economic downturn,
[52:34] I’m an optimist—parents nowadays
[52:36] really do have some spare money. Back
[52:39] in my college days, my parents gave me
[52:42] maybe 50 yuan for a month or a semester
[52:45] , which wasn't even enough to cover
[52:47] food. That’s completely different. I
[52:50] ran into a couple I know the other day,
[52:52] and I realized how much mothers plan
[52:55] for their kids now. She told me," My
[52:57] husband makes tens of thousands a month
[53:00] , and I put away thousands for our
[53:02] child’s insurance. When he mentions
[53:05] investing in property, I tell him he
[53:07] has to put the child’s name on it. "
[53:10] She said she’s even pushing her
[53:11] husband to write a will that says he
[53:13] can’t leave anything to his parents,
[53:15] only to their child. Worrying about
[53:17] inheritance taxes and leaving
[53:18] everything to the kid—I think this
[53:20] mother is really going out of her way.
[53:22] The husband replied," I can’t just
[53:24] ignore my parents in the future, right?
[53:26] "She said," You can write at most that
[53:29] if your parents are in financial
[53:30] trouble, our child can help them out. "
[53:33] Anyway, talking about stuff like this
[53:35] was pretty funny. It made me realize
[53:37] that even if you're a middle-income
[53:39] family, if you plan as meticulously as
[53:41] that mother does, your child really
[53:43] wouldn't need to work, as long as they
[53:46] aren't extravagant. She’s even
[53:48] looking into retirement insurance for
[53:50] her kid, something that pays out a
[53:52] certain amount from the bank every
[53:54] month after a certain number of years.
[53:56] I started thinking about that
[53:58] possibility: if they aren't extravagant
[54:00] , they could potentially go their whole
[54:02] life without working, just relying on
[54:04] the financial plans their parents made.
[54:06] >> They could, but they wouldn't be happy.
[54:09] >> That’s the key point. I’m saying
[54:13] that if you look at the data, it’s
[54:15] truly different from our time—they
[54:17] all receive some level of support from
[54:19] their parents. It’s not a small
[54:22] number.
[54:23] >> Times are different. Our generation
[54:27] went through years of economic
[54:29] development and managed to accumulate
[54:31] some wealth. From the perspective of
[54:36] the children, isn't it all meant to be
[54:39] shared? I mean, what else, right? Why
[54:42] have children?
[54:43] >> I want you to...
[54:45] >> Shared bicycles.
[54:47] >> Should we share our wealth? Common
[54:49] prosperity, that sounds good.
[54:51] >> Yes, but look at it from the child's
[54:53] perspective, the child's perspective.
[54:55] You have it, I'm not asking to manage
[54:57] all the money now. I mean, if I'm
[55:00] facing the difficulties we just
[55:02] mentioned outside, and I'm in a bind, I
[55:04] don't necessarily have to rely on you
[55:06] forever; sharing can be an option too.
[55:09] The question is, what do you do after
[55:12] sharing? For example, I have a friend
[55:14] whose children also rely mainly on the
[55:17] family, but his children take on a very
[55:19] important responsibility—I think
[55:21] it’s excellent—they plan the
[55:24] family's annual trips, about two or
[55:26] three times a year, to places that are
[55:28] harder to get to. The children handle
[55:32] the itinerary, flights, and hotels,
[55:34] allowing the parents to enjoy a very
[55:37] happy trip beyond their busy work
[55:39] schedules. This, I think this is also
[55:43] very good. Having a period like this in
[55:47] your life is great. What else is a
[55:50] family for? The children are
[55:52] responsible for the food and dining.
[55:55] They plan the culinary experiences,
[55:57] deciding which restaurant to try or
[56:00] what dishes to eat this weekend,
[56:02] allowing parents who lack that
[56:04] knowledge or the time to plan to enrich
[56:07] their lives. So, the children aren't
[56:10] just freeloading; they bring a rather
[56:13] rich and wonderful life back to their
[56:15] parents. So the point is, beyond what
[56:18] teachers say about children not working
[56:21] and just taking money at home. Parents
[56:26] should be equal, but every family has
[56:28] its own situation; the point is, given
[56:30] those conditions, can you make full use
[56:33] of them to enrich the lives of both
[56:35] generations?
[56:37] >> I think this is important.
[56:40] >> It has a greater impact on the younger
[56:42] generation, which is often overlooked.
[56:44] We talk more from the parents '
[56:46] perspective, and honestly, as long as I
[56:49] have the money and you don't drain my
[56:51] bank account to zero. Do whatever you
[56:53] want, spend it on your kids, what's the
[56:55] big deal? But the problem is, for the
[56:58] younger generation...
[56:59] >> The impact is very profound. Think back
[57:04] carefully—how you viewed your parents
[57:07] when you were young and how you
[57:09] evaluated them affects the younger
[57:11] generation's basic view of society.
[57:14] >> Truly.
[57:16] >> It influences their fundamental
[57:18] worldview. In recent decades, many
[57:23] protagonists in literature have been
[57:25] young boys. Their attitude toward their
[57:30] fathers has changed; to put it simply,
[57:33] they pity them. These young people
[57:36] can't rely on their parents—there's
[57:39] nothing to rely on. Their parents are
[57:43] pathetic, and they feel their parents
[57:45] ’ loyalty is very naive. So I
[57:49] discovered a thread: in both novels and
[57:52] real life, how you judge your father is
[57:55] basically the worldview of the young
[57:58] person themselves.
[58:00] >> Yes, it is.
[58:02] >> It's that your father was wronged by
[58:04] society; we often—I recall myself
[58:07] being this way too. Often when our
[58:09] fathers are pitiable, we didn't see
[58:12] them as pitiable back then. Back then,
[58:14] we would blame them:" Why are you so
[58:16] useless? You…why…how could you be
[58:18] standing in this position at a time
[58:20] like this? Standing here, when you
[58:22] clearly could have had a higher
[58:23] position, why like…this? "Years later
[58:25] , many years later, I found myself
[58:27] retracing my steps, walking the path my
[58:29] father walked, only then learning to
[58:30] respect my own pitiable father. H
