## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1s) Rejecting the "Savior Complex": Service Recipients over Beneficiaries
Chen Xingjia establishes a foundational rule for his philanthropic work at the Henghui Foundation: language defines mindset. In foundation monthly reports, people receiving assistance are never labeled "beneficiaries," but rather "service recipients," and what the team provides is never termed "relief," but simply "service." Operating under the identity of a "savior" inherently places an individual on an assumed moral high ground, breeding a subtle sense of superiority—the self-congratulatory belief that *"I'm here to save you,"* *"you have nothing, I provide for you,"* or *"you are suffering, I'm here to rescue you."* Chen warns that assuming the mantle of a savior is not just ethically flawed, but psychologically exhausting; it actively depletes and drains a person's inner energy.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: The Psychological Divergence in Philanthropy
accDescr: Compares the savior complex trap with the professional service model in charitable work.
subgraph SaviorTrap["The Savior Complex (Energy Draining)"]
A["Moral High Ground / Superiority"] --> B["Expectation of Gratitude & Deference"]
B --> C["Encountering Raw Reality / Hostility"]
C --> D["Disillusionment & Emotional Breakdown"]
end
subgraph ServiceModel["Professional Service (Sustainable)"]
E["Service Recipient Mindset"] --> F["Equal Dignity & Mutual Accompaniment"]
F --> G["Resilience Against Resentment"]
G --> H["Reciprocal Energy & True Fulfillment"]
end
```
To illustrate how devastating this savior complex can be to frontline workers, Chen recounts the painful story of A-Liang, a seven-year-old boy suffering from leukemia. During treatment, A-Liang's father had already abandoned the family, leaving the mother alone to cope with both the emotional burden and crushing medical debts. One day, the mother told hospital staff she was stepping out to buy medicine for the boy’s mouth ulcers; she walked away and never returned. When Henghui Foundation answered the hospital's distress call, volunteers tracked down the runaway father after an exhaustive search. Instead of exhibiting relief, concern, or remorse for his dying son, the father treated the volunteers with open cynicism, refusing to assume responsibility and demanding that the foundation pay off all outstanding hospital bills: *"Your foundation is so big, can’t you just cough up 80,000 or 100,000?"*
The confrontation completely broke the young frontline team member. In a recorded exchange, the volunteer cried out in anguish: *"I can't understand it, we are all... human beings!"* When he called Chen from the hospital stairwell, he was speaking incoherently, utterly traumatized by the lack of human decency. Chen immediately pulled him from the case, stepped in to handle the situation personally, and brought in professional psychological counseling. Yet Chen emphasizes that counseling alone is not what heals volunteers; they heal only when they deconstruct why they felt so deeply injured. The agony arose because the volunteer had subconsciously placed himself in the role of a savior, harboring an implicit expectation of gratitude or, at the very least, basic acknowledgment. When met instead with crass entitlement, the savior's moral framework inevitably collapses.
- **Terminology shift**: Replacing "beneficiaries" and "relief" with "service recipients" and "service" to eradicate hierarchical moral superiority.
- **The Case of A-Liang**: A 7-year-old leukemia patient deserted first by his father, then by his mother on the pretext of buying mouth ulcer ointment.
- **The Father's Demand**: Refused responsibility, demanding the foundation cover 80,000 to 100,000 yuan in back hospital expenses.
---
[03:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=216s) Lessons from Badong: Weathering Online Hostility and Disillusionment
Chen Xingjia explains that his immunity to this emotional drain stems from his prior trial by fire as the County Party Secretary of Badong. When he first took office, he discovered that public trust in local governance had already been thoroughly demolished. Regardless of how earnestly he labored or how positive his initiatives were, his efforts were met online by an unrelenting torrent of public abuse, suspicion, and cold indifference. In the beginning, he struggled with immense confusion and internal turmoil, feeling deeply misunderstood while giving his all for the community.
Over time, Chen worked through this mental hurdle. In his eventual farewell address upon leaving Badong, he made a point of publicly thanking the very netizens—singling out pseudonyms like "Chongzi" (虫子) and "Xiao Zhi" (小智)—who had spent years relentlessly attacking and criticizing him online. He recognized that these critics were simply ordinary people voicing deep-seated grievances. By the end of his tenure, the online hostility had almost completely evaporated; the public had watched him walk directly among them for years and recognized that his commitment was not a political performance.
Having survived that crucible, Chen had completed his psychological armor before ever entering the philanthropic arena. He understood from day one that genuine public service cannot be an exercise in moral grandstanding or an emotional fix for one's own ego. He expresses sharp contempt for the common, performative model of charity: commodifying the agony of the poor to tug at the heartstrings of the wealthy, taking money from affluent donors to settle hospital bills, posing for staged photographs with impoverished recipients, and calling it a day. In Chen’s view, that is deeply hypocritical—it reduces vulnerable people to props merely used to help the wealthy polish their own moral egos.
- **Badong netizen critics**: Commentators like "Chongzi" and "Xiao Zhi" persistently attacked Chen during his early term, yet received his sincere gratitude in his farewell address.
- **Shift in public sentiment**: Hostility only subsided toward the end of his tenure, after the community observed consistent, unpretentious action on the ground.
- **Critique of performative charity**: Exploiting tragic narratives of the poor solely to allow affluent benefactors to burnish their moral self-image.
---
[05:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=337s) Mutual Energy and True Charity: Beyond the Drain of Negativity
Responding to Chen’s resilience, host Zhou Yijun wonders aloud whether people like him are "made of some special material," drawing a parallel to an interview she conducted with 90-year-old primatologist Jane Goodall. Despite her advanced age and the availability of modern livestreaming technology, Goodall still spends over 300 days a year traveling across the globe to give in-person lectures. When asked why she undertakes such grueling physical travel, Goodall replied: *"I need to go to the venues to also feel the energy that other people give me."* Zhou suggests that genuine public welfare functions on this exact principle: giving and receiving are not a one-way transaction from the elevated to the lowly, but a unified, reciprocal circulation of human energy.
Chen enthusiastically embraces this framing, defining the deeper essence of charity through the lens of human fragility. In the span of a lifetime, anyone can encounter devastating misfortune. Some individuals are fortunate enough to experience light setbacks that pass quickly; others are struck by catastrophes so massive that neither they nor their families can endure alone. Professional charity workers do not arrive as saviors, but as companions who walk alongside these families through the darkest, most desolate stretches of their lives. When a worker looks beyond a patient's withered, disease-ravaged face and recognizes the sacred dignity of life, an authentic bond is formed. In that shared presence, the helper realizes an essential truth: *"While you have blessed them, you are even more deeply blessed by them."* Only when this level of understanding is achieved does the emotional exhaustion vanish.
To demonstrate the consequences of failing to reach this mindset, Chen shares the story of an exceptional young team member who worked alongside him for more than three years before suddenly resigning. Chen did not pressure him to stay and even helped him secure his next job. The departure stemmed from an admission the young man had made in confidence to another colleague: after getting married, he and his wife had struggled for years to conceive, and he had come to believe that spending so much time in pediatric cancer wards around terminally ill children had infected him with an unfortunate, negative "aura." Chen realized immediately that despite outward competence and surface-level professional dedication, the young man subconsciously viewed the suffering of others as a contaminating force. Carrying that latent fear, any continued involvement would only result in severe internal depletion.
The discussion closes as Zhou Yijun poses a provocative question: If an individual feels zero negative drain when immersed in profound human tragedy, is there perhaps some internal void or unresolved need inside them that drives them to seek out that intense energy in the first place?
- **Jane Goodall's philosophy**: Traveling 300+ days annually at age 90 to physically exchange living energy with audiences rather than communicating remotely.
- **The departure of a core teammate**: A dedicated employee left the foundation after attributing his marital infertility to a negative "aura" acquired inside children's cancer wards.
- **The paradox of accompaniment**: Charity sustains itself only when workers realize that walking alongside people in their darkest hours leaves the caregiver more blessed by the recipient than vice versa.
[10:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=639s) The Driving Force of a "Sense of Mission"
The conversation opens with a probing philosophical question about the internal engine that drives people to undertake demanding paths: does a person keep pushing forward because of an abundance of innate energy, or is it paradoxically because they feel a deep inner lack—an emptiness they are restlessly searching to fill? The host observes that human beings rarely embark on relentless crusades simply because they possess limitless vitality. More often, they are searching for an elusive force to propel them forward, an urge to reach for something beyond themselves.
Chen Xingjia connects this searching to the term "sense of mission" (使命感), offering his own distinct interpretation. He explains that one does not simply stumble upon a mission and suddenly feel driven; rather, the "sense of mission" must exist first, long before the concrete mission is ever identified. It manifests as a persistent, indefinable sensation—an inner conviction that there is a purpose waiting to be served, even if one cannot yet name the specific cause or object to which it attaches. Eventually, that abstract urgency finds its anchor in real-world duty. This discussion of purpose segues back into the raw, tragic human reality that anchored his charitable work: the story of a young patient named A-Liang and his mother.
[11:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=695s) A Mother's Desperate Fight and the Meaning of Forgiveness
The panel revisits the initial judgment surrounding A-Liang's mother, who had seemingly vanished from the hospital and left her critically ill child behind. On the surface, the act appeared callous, heartless, and even criminal—a clear-cut case of child abandonment that outraged onlookers. Yet the narrative underwent a profound, heartbreaking reversal once Chen and his team intervened. After an agonizing week of absence, A-Liang's mother reappeared at the hospital. She was visibly withered and haggard, her hollow face bearing the weight of immense, unspoken suffering and suffocating guilt. Despite the frantic medical efforts of the volunteers and doctors, A-Liang could not be saved and eventually passed away.
In the aftermath, a female volunteer broke down in uncontrollable sobs, having uncovered the truth of the mother's week-long disappearance. The mother had not abandoned her son out of malice; she had run out of every possible avenue to borrow money for his medical care. Driven into absolute desperation, she had turned to sex work as a last-ditch attempt to raise the funds needed to keep her child alive. In his memoir, Chen Xingjia wrote forcefully that her actions were not shameful: this was an impoverished mother waging a desperate, solitary war against fate for her child's survival, and she deserved compassion rather than moral condemnation. Reflecting on this in the studio, Chen is visibly moved, his voice breaking:
> "How should I put it, she is truly a great mother... It’s not that we have fully forgiven them. I feel it is she who has forgiven us. She has forgiven society."
The studio falls into a heavy, emotional silence as someone asks for tissues to wipe away tears, acknowledging the unbearable tragedy of a mother pushed to the absolute edge of human dignity.
[13:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=822s) The True Bottom Line of Civilization
Moving from A-Liang's tragedy to the systemic purpose of philanthropy, Chen explains why modern charity must evolve far beyond episodic disaster relief. The true purpose of charitable organizations is to construct a resilient social safety net capable of catching those who slip into life's deepest, most catastrophic abysses. While individuals experiencing such extreme suffering may appear to be a small minority among the vast general population, Chen argues that their treatment is the ultimate moral barometer of any culture:
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: The Civilization Bottom Line Framework
accDescr: A diagram contrasting conventional metrics of civilization with Chen Xingjia's bottom-line social support net.
subgraph Conventional["Conventional Metrics"]
A["Wealth of the Elite"]
B["Technological Innovation"]
end
subgraph TrueStandard["The True Measure of Civilization"]
C["Height of the Societal Bottom Line"]
D["Institutional Social Safety Net"]
E["Protection for the Voiceless & Desperate"]
end
Conventional -.->|"Incomplete without"| TrueStandard
C --> D
D --> E
```
Chen asserts that the civilizational height of a society cannot be judged merely by how opulent its billionaires are or how cutting-edge its technological inventions seem. Instead, the true measure of civilization is "how high its bottom line really is"—how humanely and thoroughly it protects those trapped in acute distress. The tragedy of the most marginalized is that they often lack the voice, education, or social capital even to articulate their pain or ask for help. When people are entirely voiceless, their suffering remains invisible until they are driven to catastrophic choices like abandoning a child on a hospital bed.
[15:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=913s) Empathy Over Retribution: Understanding Absolute Desperation
When asked whether he ever felt anger or resentment toward parents who abandon their children in hospital wards, Chen admits that his very first instinct upon encountering such a case was fury. Younger volunteers and staff members initially reacted with righteous indignation, declaring the act a crime and demanding that lawyers be brought in to notify the police. However, Chen was the first to intervene and stop them from pursuing punitive action. He realized that no parent takes such a step unless pushed to the absolute limits of human endurance:
- Rather than dragging parents back through legal coercion, Chen believed that parents would return on their own accord, drawn back by the bond of their suffering children.
- When A-Liang's mother returned days later, her face was completely drained of color and etched with exhaustion, proving she had not slept a wink during her absence.
- Recognizing her sheer, unadulterated desperation dissolved any desire for retribution; Chen insisted that the only humane response was to find such parents, listen to their grief, and offer support rather than judgment.
[16:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1001s) Breaking Down Stigma: The Onset of Severe Depression
The discussion pivots toward Chen's personal life and psychology. Friends from his university days remembered him as a bright, sunny, and endlessly optimistic young man. Yet across different crossroads of his life, people often viewed him as somewhat unconventional—jokingly comparing him to a pair of old-style police trousers with an extra non-standard stripe running down the side, always standing slightly apart from bureaucratic conformity. But when asked to identify the single most transformative turning point of his existence, Chen states without hesitation that it was his battle with severe clinical depression.
Chen describes this episode as dividing his life into two completely separate existences: the person he was before the illness, and the person reborn after recovery. Drawing on Buddhist terminology, he likens his recovery to "Nirvana," having literally descended into hell and witnessed what it looks like from the inside. Following his breakdown, he was admitted to a psychiatric facility. He openly critiques the deep social stigma that surrounds mental illness, noting how people nervously avoid the term "psychiatric hospital" and soften it to "Mental Health Center" to feel comfortable. A panelist references the poignant metaphor from Chen's book describing moderate depression: the feeling of being trapped inside a frosted glass house—translucent enough to see outside, yet completely sealed, with the walls constantly contracting and suffocating the occupant.
[18:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1103s) The Frosted Glass Coffin and the Mother's Voice
Chen elaborates on the visceral horror of that period. For months, severe insomnia stripped him of rest. Sleeping pills steadily lost their efficacy until they ceased working altogether, leaving him trapped in agonizing nightly battles with exhaustion. One morning around 5:00 or 6:00 AM, just as the sky began to pale with dawn, he finally drifted into a state of sleep and entered a haunting dream:
- He found himself trapped inside a tiny enclosure made entirely of frosted glass on all four sides, measuring barely one square meter.
- The space was so tight he could not even turn his body around, an experience he later recognized as the exact sensory equivalent of being sealed inside a coffin.
- Suddenly, amidst the oppressive claustrophobia, he heard light, gentle footsteps outside, followed by a soft knock on the invisible wall.
- A voice called out his childhood nickname: *"Jia'er, come out. Jia'er, be a good boy and come out"* ("甲儿，出来。甲儿，乖乖地出来"). It was the unmistakable voice of his deceased mother.
Chen woke up instantly, drenched in cold sweat, his body overheated and nearly paralyzed with terror. Calming his racing pulse, he reached for his phone on the nightstand and called his wife, who was living 500 kilometers away. For months, wanting to shield his family from worry, he had kept his deteriorating condition completely hidden. In that moment of awakening from the glass coffin, he finally broke his silence and made a desperate call for help, admitting aloud: "I am sick. I am really sick."
[20:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1216s) The Void of Grief and the Warning Signs of Collapse
Chen reflects on the underlying emotional fracture that paved the way for his mental breakdown: the immense, irreparable void left behind by his mother's death. Although the overwhelming professional pressures and responsibilities of his career acted as immediate triggers, the unhealed grief of losing his mother remained a permanent shadow over his psyche. Yet even in his darkest moments, when he felt plunged into the deepest abyss, he could still feel her presence and hear her footsteps walking toward him.
When he called his wife to confess how sick he was, her response was immediate and unconditional: *"Come back immediately... Don't be afraid, just come back."* She told him to drop every responsibility on the spot. Chen boarded a plane and flew home. Stepping out to see his wife waiting downstairs with a joyful face, he felt an initial surge of relief, believing that being home would cure him. But his neurological and emotional collapse ran far deeper than fatigue.
His wife recognized the terrifying gravity of his condition through a single, alarming incident: their son was preparing for the demanding third year of middle school (senior high entrance exams), and she had to step out briefly, asking Chen to look after him at home. When she returned, she found Chen and his son sitting together in utter, frozen silence. Chen had been completely incapable of uttering a single word to his own child. That complete shutdown of basic emotional communication was the undeniable proof that he had sunk into severe clinical depression.
[21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1310s) The Depths of Depression, a Dismissive Doctor, and a Lifeline Phone Call
The true severity of Chen Xingjia's depression became terrifyingly undeniable through his relationship with his son. His son was his entire world, yet he suddenly realized they could sit together in the exact same room and have absolutely nothing to say to one another. Seeing him reduced to an empty shell, his wife recognized the crisis and urged him to seek medical help immediately. However, his initial hospital consultation proved disastrous. Within less than three minutes of listening, the doctor casually brushed him off with a detached, dismissive glance, saying, "Alright, alright, I've seen many cases like yours. Let me write a note; just go ahead and get admitted to the hospital, go handle the admission procedures." That cold, indifferent gaze shattered what little resolve Chen had left. Completely devastated, he knew instinctively that this doctor would never be able to heal him.
Refusing to complete the admission paperwork, Chen stood in the hospital hallway and called his wife in tears, confessing that the doctor's demeanor had broken him and that he wanted to come home. His wife did not hesitate; she had already researched alternatives before he even left. She instructed him firmly not to turn back, but to travel through the night without stopping to the PLA Mental Health Center in Jiangsu. Drained and hollow, Chen felt utterly dissociated during the journey, describing his spirit as detached and floating outside his physical body.
Upon finally arriving and getting admitted at the Jiangsu facility, Chen phoned his wife to let her know he had settled in. Her reaction on the other end of the line was brimming with pure, unadulterated joy: "Oh, that's great, that's wonderful! I'm walking toward the river now. I just bought the things I needed, and I'm going to burn offerings for Grandma by the river, then I'll be there first thing tomorrow morning." Hearing her speak with such optimism and warmth about burning paper offerings for his late mother moved him to uncontrollable tears the moment he hung up. That call served as his ultimate spiritual anchor, pulling him back from the abyss just as he felt himself slipping away.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Chen Xingjia Crisis and Intervention Flow
accDescr: Diagram illustrating the emotional breakdown and the wife's decisive intervention leading to admission.
subgraph Crisis["Descent into Crisis"]
A["Emotional Numbness<br/>(Cannot speak to son)"] --> B["First Hospital Visit"]
B --> C["Cold, Dismissive Doctor<br/>(<3 min consultation)"]
C --> D["Total Psychological Collapse<br/>in Hospital Hallway"]
end
subgraph Intervention["Spiritual Anchor"]
D --> E["Call to Wife"]
E --> F["Wife Directs Overnight Journey<br/>to Jiangsu PLA Center"]
F --> G["Safe Arrival & Check-in"]
G --> H["Wife's Grounding Joy<br/>(River offerings & reassurance)"]
end
```
[25:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1505s) Shedding a Layer of Skin: Transforming Through Trauma and Grief
Acknowledging that he was extraordinarily fortunate to have survived that dark period, Chen identifies the death of his mother and his subsequent battle with severe depression as the absolute turning points of his life. Emerging from that debilitating illness felt like a total metamorphosis—a painful, profound process of "shedding a layer of skin" (*脱了一层皮*). When asked to describe who he was before versus after this transformation, he reflects on the classic philosophical paradox of perception.
Rather than viewing himself as an entirely different person, he explains that he returned to simplicity through trial. In his youth, he saw mountains as mountains and water as water. As he encountered trauma, disillusionment, and agony, he entered the disorienting phase where mountains were no longer mountains and water was no longer water. Ultimately, having stared into the void and survived, he arrived back at a place of clarity where mountains are once again mountains, and water is once again water—embodying the truth that what did not kill him left him profoundly resilient.
[26:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1587s) The Mountain Boy and the City Girl: Overcoming Deep-Seated Inferiority
Shifting to a lighter memory, the conversation turns to the romance between Chen and his wife during their days at Hubei University. Chen had fallen for her during their freshman year, but he harbored a crushing sense of inadequacy that kept him from confessing his feelings for years. Coming from an impoverished, remote mountain village, he felt an insurmountable class divide between them. To him, she was an unattainable figure; even watching her walk away from behind filled him with longing and envy.
This self-doubt was reinforced by his physical and socioeconomic background:
- **Physical growth and malnutrition:** In junior high, Chen stood at just 1.56 meters (approx. 5'1"). During his first year of high school, a sudden growth spurt brought him to 1.74 meters (he is 1.75 meters today).
- **Extreme thinness:** Arriving at university, he weighed a mere 114 jin (approx. 57 kg / 125 lbs), carrying visible physical markers of rural childhood hunger and thin arms, compared to his healthy adult weight of 140 jin (70 kg).
- **Contrasting backgrounds:** It took Chen two days and two nights of arduous travel just to leave his mountain home and reach the university city for the first time. By contrast, she was a poised city native from an educated, cultured family, boasting top academic grades and serving as a student leader.
Subconsciously, Chen felt completely unworthy of someone so accomplished, believing that even admitting his feelings to himself was an overstep. When asked how one ever overcomes such deep-seated inferiority, the answer boiled down to the transformative power of love—and the unexpected grace of her reaching out first.
[28:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1699s) A Handwritten Poem, a Night Without Sleep, and the Library Letter
The breakthrough arrived during their junior year in an otherwise unremarkable college classroom. Typically, conscientious female students claimed the front rows while the male students slacked off in the back. Because the class that day was particularly dry, she arrived right at the final bell and slipped into an open seat in the back directly beside Chen. When the lecture ended, she casually passed him a slip of paper containing a poem she had transcribed from a popular campus magazine like *Readers* (*读者*) or *Youth Digest* (*青年文摘*), remarking offhandedly that the lecture was boring and the verse was worth reading.
Having practiced calligraphy since age six, she was certified by the China Calligraphers Association, and her penmanship was striking and professional. The poem centered on themes of fated encounters and unspoken, earth-shaking yearning. Though she handed it over casually and walked away, the gesture threw Chen into an emotional whirlwind. He lay awake the entire night, unable to sleep, reading and re-reading the poem dozens of times until morning.
The following day, Chen skipped class entirely to camp out in a quiet corner of the university library, determined to craft his very first love letter. Lacking modern aids like generative AI, he poured every ounce of his literary ability into writing a profound, heartfelt commentary on the poem and lavishly praising her calligraphy. Discontented with his initial draft, he meticulously recopied the text over and over to ensure flawless handwriting. Afterward, he staged an "accidental" encounter in the hallway, nonchalantly handing her the letter alongside a book, saying, "You wrote that poem so well yesterday. Look, I wrote a little reflection on it." She accepted it calmly, cementing the first bridge across the divide between them.
[31:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxFW8z8aewQ&t=1885s) Spikes on the Volleyball Court and the 20th Anniversary Album
That handwritten reply gradually dissolved the distance between them, leading to everyday conversations while fetching hot water, walking along campus paths, or eating meals. Chen’s confidence was further buoyed by his athletic prowess; he was an ace spiker for both the mathematics department and the university volleyball team. During matches, he would spot her among the crowd on the sidelines, jumping and enthusiastically applauding whenever he landed a powerful spike, signaling that his feelings were fully reciprocated.
This youthful exchange remained sacred to Chen decades later. For their 20th wedding anniversary, he designed a commemorative photo album containing exactly 20 photographs—one for each year of their marriage arranged in reverse chronological order, opening with the present day and ending on their wedding portrait. On the back cover of the album, he printed a high-resolution photograph of the very poem note she had slipped him in that boring university classroom two decades earlier. When she received the gift, she was overwhelmed with joy, calling him that evening with an excitement so intense it felt like a pot of boiling water bubbling over.
陈行甲强调，践行关怀与公益并不意味着一定要辞职跑到深山支教或是去癌症病房当义工，这本身就是孩子人格成长中必不可少的心灵维度。而一个人要能够“看见他人”，前提是其内心必须先体验过被爱滋养的温暖。这契合了现代西方心理学的基石——正如弗洛伊德所揭示的，**“爱与工作是治愈一切的良药”**（Love and work are the cures for everything）。唯有在充满爱的环境中成长，拥有爱人的能力，个体才能摆脱孤独与抑郁的深渊，建立起健全的精神世界。
[0:01] Take Yixun, for instance, he is my
[0:03] mentor, but you’ll notice in my
[0:05] monthly reports that we don’t use the
[0:08] term "beneficiaries" for those we help;
[0:10] we call them "service recipients." We
[0:13] don't offer "relief," only "service."
[0:16] You see, the identity of a "savior" is
[0:18] often rooted in a foundation of moral
[0:21] superiority. I am standing on the moral
[0:23] high ground.
[0:24] >> Even harboring a sense of superiority.
[0:26] >> Feeling superior, thinking "I'm here to
[0:28] save you,""you have nothing, I provide
[0:30] for you,""you are suffering, I'm here
[0:31] to rescue you." In fact, this actually
[0:34] drains one's energy. Let me tell you,
[0:37] the role of a savior, the identity of
[0:39] being a savior, will deplete your
[0:42] energy.
[0:42] >> How do you know that? Have you felt it
[0:45] or stood in that position yourself?
[0:47] >> I have felt it. For example, let's look
[0:50] at the first story in the book, the
[0:52] father of A-Liang. That is why I had to
[0:54] coach my team members on how to move
[0:57] past it. You see, my team members on
[0:59] the front lines felt deeply hurt. We
[1:02] work so hard, and yet, you abandoned
[1:04] your own child in the first place. We
[1:06] have been taking care of the child, we
[1:09] found you and brought you back, all in
[1:11] the hope of working together to save
[1:13] the child. And you show no gratitude.
[1:16] Then what? Actually, no, it wasn’t
[1:18] just a lack of appreciation. He even
[1:21] took advantage of you. A-Liang was a
[1:23] seven-year-old child suffering from
[1:26] leukemia. During the treatment, his
[1:28] father ran away, leaving only his
[1:30] mother to care for him. The family
[1:32] faced financial hardship and couldn't
[1:34] afford the medical expenses. One day,
[1:37] A-Liang's mother said the child had
[1:39] mouth ulcers and needed to go buy
[1:42] medicine, but she left and never
[1:44] returned. The Henghui Foundation
[1:46] received a request for help from the
[1:48] hospital and acted quickly; after much
[1:51] searching, volunteers found A-Liang's
[1:53] father. But he wasn't concerned about
[1:55] the child's condition; he only kept
[1:57] demanding that the volunteers pay the
[1:59] outstanding hospital fees. He even said
[2:01] , "Your foundation is so big, can’t
[2:03] you just cough up 80,000 or 100,000?"
[2:05] This made the volunteers feel extremely
[2:07] disheartened. I remember hearing the
[2:09] recording of what our team member said
[2:12] to the father; he said, "I can't
[2:14] understand it, we are all...""Human
[2:16] beings," my team member even said
[2:18] something like that. When he came
[2:20] downstairs and called me, he was
[2:22] already speaking incoherently. Right.
[2:26] We pulled him off the case, and I took
[2:28] over so we could finish this together.
[2:31] Afterward, we naturally invited
[2:33] psychological experts to provide
[2:34] counseling and support, but I feel what
[2:37] truly helped them move past this was
[2:39] clarifying things for them, helping
[2:41] them reason through why they were hurt,
[2:43] and why they felt that pain.
[2:45] >> Because you wanted to be thanked.
[2:47] >> Exactly. It’s because you see
[2:50] yourself in the role of a helper or
[2:53] savior. So, when they don't respond as
[2:56] expected, you get upset. Since you are
[2:59] in that "savior" role, feeling a sense
[3:02] of moral superiority, you
[3:04] subconsciously harbor an expectation to
[3:06] receive their gratitude and
[3:08] appreciation. Right?
[3:10] >> At the very least, recognition.
[3:12] >> At least recognition. If you don't get
[3:15] that, or if they even get annoyed with
[3:17] you, that’s when you end up having a
[3:19] breakdown. You’d wonder, "Did I get
[3:21] this wrong?" That right there is the "
[3:23] savior" complex. It drains you. I’m
[3:26] curious, have you ever had the
[3:28] experience of being in the wrong
[3:30] position like that? Have you ever stood
[3:32] in the wrong place? Or rather, have you
[3:34] ever been in that kind of position?
[3:36] >> Well, let me tell you, I have been
[3:38] there in the past.
[3:39] >> So that’s why you have this feeling
[3:40] and can empathize so deeply with what
[3:42] they are going through?
[3:43] >> Yes, I have been there. For example,
[3:47] during my first year as a county party
[3:49] secretary, I found that no matter what
[3:52] I did as secretary...The public would
[3:54] just flood the internet to scold me.
[3:58] >> Because trust had already been
[4:00] destroyed. As you were saying back then
[4:03] , yes, internally I was very confused.
[4:06] I was working so hard and doing my best
[4:08] to do things for them, yet I was
[4:10] completely misunderstood. No matter how
[4:13] positive your words were, how positive
[4:15] your efforts, or how hard you tried to
[4:17] reach out to them, you were met with
[4:19] cold, indifferent rejection. Even being
[4:21] cold and indifferent—when I said
[4:23] goodbye to Badong, there was a part
[4:25] where I specifically thanked a few
[4:26] people: thank you, Chongzi, thank you,
[4:29] Xiao Zhi, thank you for speaking up.
[4:31] Thank you for all these years. Actually
[4:33] , I finally got over that hurdle in my
[4:35] heart; these were the very people who
[4:36] insisted on scolding me on the internet
[4:38] for so many years. No matter what I did
[4:40] , they would always scold me. But in
[4:42] reality, they were just ordinary folks.
[4:44] Later on, toward the end of my term,
[4:47] they basically stopped criticizing me
[4:49] because they saw the changes and knew I
[4:51] wasn't putting on an act—I was truly
[4:53] walking among them. Right. So, I have
[4:56] encountered situations like this before
[4:58] . In my heart, I had already completed
[5:00] that kind of psychological preparation.
[5:02] When I decided to dedicate my life to
[5:04] public service, when I decided to
[5:06] engage in philanthropy, the first thing
[5:08] I knew clearly in my heart was that I
[5:10] am not a savior. If you engage in that
[5:12] kind of moral grandstanding, standing
[5:14] on a moral high ground to move yourself
[5:16] , to get a self-indulgent high, telling
[5:17] stories of the poor's suffering to gain
[5:19] the sympathy of the rich, then having
[5:21] the rich give you money to pay for the
[5:23] poor's medical bills and expenses, only
[5:25] to take photos with the poor and call
[5:26] it a day—you are just helping the
[5:28] rich polish their own morality.
[5:30] >> That is very immoral. You cannot do
[5:33] that. From the start, I knew that is
[5:35] not the kind of philanthropy I wanted
[5:37] to do.
[5:37] >> This...Yi Li is asking you that
[5:39] question, about how some people in the
[5:41] team might suffer trauma.
[5:42] >> You don't have that feeling. Actually,
[5:44] we both just wanted to ask on
[5:46] everyone's behalf: are you made of some
[5:49] special material? It sort of feels like
[5:51] that. But I don't know if I can share a
[5:54] feeling: before speaking with you, our
[5:56] program previously interviewed...
[5:59] >> Jane Goodall, do you know her? The
[6:01] zoologist, yes. I asked her a question
[6:04] back then. Since she spends over 300
[6:06] days a year flying to different places
[6:08] to give lectures, and she is already 90
[6:10] years old, I asked her, "The internet
[6:12] is so advanced now, right? Wherever you
[6:14] are...""...you could actually go online
[6:16] to livestream and talk to people, so
[6:17] why do you keep flying to the venues?
[6:19] Isn't it exhausting?"
[6:21] >> She shared a feeling with me. She said,
[6:23] "I need to go to the venues to also
[6:25] feel the energy that other people give
[6:27] me." Oh, this feeling—I understand
[6:29] now, you are that kind of person,
[6:31] meaning you need to receive feedback
[6:34] from the crowd, to be given energy. And
[6:36] there was another person who talked
[6:38] about public welfare, saying that no
[6:41] matter if it's a big or small matter,
[6:43] the core is that you actually need more
[6:45] people to participate. The essence is
[6:48] to mobilize more people, so in this
[6:50] process, giving and receiving are
[6:52] actually one thing; it's not that I
[6:54] give to you or I help you, but that
[6:56] giving and receiving are the same thing
[6:59] . Is that so?
[7:02] >> Yijun, you've summarized this very well
[7:04] , and I think we can build on your
[7:06] summary to follow through and answer
[7:08] this question you just raised. True
[7:15] charity, at a deeper level, is
[7:17] something any one of us will encounter
[7:19] in the course of a long life. Some
[7:26] people are luckier, their difficulties
[7:29] are smaller or they pass quickly;
[7:31] others face very great difficulties,
[7:33] sometimes so great that it's hard for
[7:36] them to hold on alone, or even for
[7:38] their entire family to hold on. At this
[7:43] moment, we, as professionals in charity
[7:46] , go to their side to accompany them
[7:49] for a while. To accompany them as they
[7:56] walk through those particularly dark
[7:58] days of their lives. From the
[8:06] perspective of empathy, from the
[8:08] feeling of what it means to be human,
[8:10] you see the preciousness of life behind
[8:13] their withered face. Then you walk to
[8:21] their side to be with them. You and
[8:25] they share the most authentic parts of
[8:28] each other's lives. And after going
[8:32] through this layer, you will feel that
[8:35] while you have blessed them, you are
[8:37] even more deeply blessed by them. This
[8:40] is true charity. It is to say that only
[8:44] after reaching this level will you
[8:46] realize that you are truly in harmony,
[8:49] you are truly well at this level. So,
[8:51] let me tell you this: I once had a very
[8:54] outstanding young person among my
[8:57] charity partners. He eventually left.
[9:00] He left after we had been together for
[9:02] more than three years. I didn't try to
[9:04] force him to stay when he left. He was
[9:06] a very excellent kid, and why? Because
[9:10] he didn't tell me, but told another
[9:12] partner, and then I found out. Knowing
[9:14] the situation, I said let it take its
[9:16] natural course, and I even helped him
[9:18] find his next job. It is because of
[9:20] this sentence he said to his partners.
[9:23] He, he found that after he got married,
[9:25] for years they couldn't conceive. He
[9:29] felt, he said maybe it was because of
[9:32] our teacher, my teacher, going to
[9:34] hospitals, to cancer wards, and being
[9:36] with these children, that he had caught
[9:39] some, he didn't say bad energy, he said
[9:42] he had caught some kind of aura. He
[9:45] said exactly that. Right. It means that
[9:50] even if you think you’ve adjusted
[9:53] mentally, can face these scenes, and
[9:55] can complete this work of ours, deep
[9:58] down, in your subconscious, you still
[10:00] hold that kind of perception. I knew
[10:03] right then that this person could only
[10:05] walk with us for a part of the journey.
[10:08] So I had to let him go. If he stays
[10:10] here, he will continue to be drained.
[10:13] Even if it's not much, it's still a
[10:15] drain. But if it's the state I'm
[10:17] describing, there's no drain, you only
[10:19] have negative energy.
[10:21] >> May I venture to ask, is there
[10:22] something missing in you that makes you
[10:25] need this kind of negative energy from
[10:27] others? Why would you need this kind of
[10:29] negative energy from others?
[10:31] >> That is a good question you’ve asked.
[10:33] What exactly is missing in me? Why do I
[10:37] need to seek out this feeling to be
[10:39] able to go on? Or rather, what exactly
[10:43] is it that I’m missing? I’m lacking
[10:46] , I’m lacking—it's precisely
[10:48] because I'm lacking something.
[10:51] >> I don’t mean to target you with this
[10:52] question; I feel that every one of us
[10:54] who comes into this world to do things,
[10:56] sometimes it's not because we have
[10:58] immense energy, but because we are
[11:00] truly missing something, searching for
[11:02] something,
[11:02] >> searching for something to push us
[11:04] forward, to keep us reaching, right?
[11:06] >> This thing, for instance, you—I’ve
[11:08] heard you sometimes use the term "sense
[11:10] of mission."
[11:10] >> Yes. How do I interpret this term? I
[11:13] say you must have the sense of mission
[11:15] before you find the mission. This sense
[11:18] of mission is a feeling that something
[11:19] exists, but you aren't sure what
[11:21] specific thing it attaches to. Maybe
[11:23] later you find that thing you must do,
[11:25] but this sense of mission seems to be a
[11:27] kind of
[11:28] >> indescribable feeling, a sensation that
[11:30] is just there, compelling you to move
[11:32] forward. I actually really want to go
[11:33] back to what you said earlier about
[11:35] A-Liang's story.
[11:36] >> At that moment, everyone might feel
[11:38] that this mother is a
[11:39] >> bad mother,
[11:40] >> right,
[11:42] >> and that it’s even a criminal act, an
[11:44] act of abandonment.
[11:45] >> But what happened later? Because of
[11:48] that reversal—that is, the whole turn
[11:51] of events after you intervened. Oh, I
[11:53] feel there is something in there that
[11:55] transcends what we can ordinarily
[11:57] comprehend.
[11:58] >> After a week away, A-Liang's mother
[12:01] finally appeared; she looked extremely
[12:03] haggard, clearly having suffered deeply
[12:06] during these days. She expressed her
[12:09] gratitude to the volunteers, her
[12:11] expression full of guilt. Despite all
[12:14] efforts to save him, A-Liang eventually
[12:17] passed away. A female volunteer broke
[12:19] down in tears afterward. She said she
[12:23] wasn't just grieving for the child's
[12:25] passing, but also learning that when
[12:27] A-Liang's mother couldn't borrow money
[12:30] and had no other options, she had once
[12:32] worked as a sex worker. Chen Xingjia
[12:36] wrote in his book that he does not
[12:38] believe this is a shameful thing. This
[12:41] was a mother’s desperate struggle
[12:43] against fate for her child, and it
[12:46] should not be condemned.
[12:48] >> How should I put it, she is truly a
[12:51] great mother. She is a great mother,
[12:54] yes, that’s all I can say. It’s not
[12:57] that we—it’s not that we have fully
[13:00] forgiven them. I feel it is she who has
[13:04] forgiven us. She has forgiven society.
[13:07] So, she is truly great. Sigh, that's
[13:11] all I can say, really. Mm. Excuse me,
[13:15] does anyone have a tissue? Here, take
[13:18] mine.
[13:19] >> Oh my, this, oh my. I’m sorry, I
[13:23] don't have any today, it's my fault for
[13:25] making you...
[13:27] >> Alright, alright, as we were saying, as
[13:30] we were saying.
[13:33] >> Oh my, alright, oh my, this, oh my. Yes
[13:42] , I think this is what charity is about
[13:44] ; we need to move beyond traditional
[13:47] disaster relief and try to build a
[13:49] social support system to catch people
[13:52] like this. People like this might not
[13:57] seem that common in the vast crowd,
[13:59] right? Those who suffer to the extreme,
[14:02] they may be few, but honestly, isn't
[14:05] the height of a society's civilization
[14:07] measured by whether it can catch those
[14:10] in the most extreme, miserable cases?
[14:12] That is the true mark of a civilized
[14:15] society; it's not about how wealthy the
[14:17] rich are, or how cutting-edge their
[14:20] inventions are in leading the future.
[14:22] That's one aspect, but the true height
[14:24] of a society's civilization is actually
[14:27] how high its bottom line really is.
[14:29] Right? It’s about how well those
[14:33] suffering the most extreme hardships
[14:35] are cared for; you notice that these
[14:37] very vulnerable people don't even know
[14:40] how to express themselves, right? If
[14:45] they knew how to express themselves,
[14:47] they wouldn't have reached the point of
[14:50] abandoning their child, right? They
[14:54] can't even make a sound to ask for help
[14:56] .
[14:57] >> In this process, have you ever felt
[15:00] puzzled? For example, why a mother
[15:02] would abandon her own child. In this
[15:04] process, have you ever felt puzzled?
[15:07] >> I have, but I understood it later.
[15:09] >> Have you ever held any grudges?
[15:12] >> No. To be honest, at the very beginning
[15:14] , when I first encountered a situation
[15:17] like this, of course, I was extremely
[15:20] angry. The kids were saying it was a
[15:22] crime and that we should find a lawyer
[15:25] to report it, but you see, I was the
[15:27] first one to stop them. I just knew he
[15:30] must have been going through something
[15:32] very difficult; he must have
[15:34] encountered something really hard. I
[15:35] wanted to go and ask him to come back,
[15:37] to summon him back, but truthfully, I
[15:39] feel that rather than us bringing him
[15:41] back, it was actually him coming back
[15:43] on his own. I think he—perhaps his
[15:46] son, Wu Zi, his son’s calls from the
[15:48] hospital bed—he must have been able
[15:50] to hear them. I knew he could feel it.
[15:55] When I came over a few days later and
[15:57] saw his bloodless face, I knew he
[16:00] definitely hadn't slept for those days.
[16:05] So, that’s why I didn’t, I didn’t
[16:07] , I didn’t hold any grudges at all.
[16:11] >> He was desperate.
[16:15] >> He wouldn't have done that unless it
[16:17] was an absolute last resort, so we had
[16:19] to find him and listen to what he had
[16:22] to say. For instance, we’ve seen your
[16:30] friends’ comments about you, saying
[16:32] you were a very sunny and optimistic
[16:34] person in college, and so on.
[16:39] >> Has it always been like that?
[16:41] >> Actually, as for major shifts—if I
[16:43] were to name the most significant
[16:44] change, just one—of course, people go
[16:46] through many changes. At many
[16:48] crossroads in my life, people would see
[16:50] me as being a bit unconventional,
[16:52] saying I was like a police officer’s
[16:54] trousers with an extra stripe. You know
[16:56] , in our day, police uniforms had a
[16:58] stripe down the side; it just meant
[17:01] being different. But if you’re asking
[17:04] for the most important turning point,
[17:07] if I can only pick one, it would
[17:09] definitely be when I suffered from
[17:11] severe depression.
[17:15] >> I was a different person before I had
[17:18] depression and after I recovered. I was
[17:23] reborn. At that moment, I truly
[17:27] understood a term from Buddhism. What
[17:33] does it mean? Like Nirvana.
[17:36] >> Mhm.
[17:37] >> It means I have truly seen what hell
[17:40] looks like. I know what that’s like.
[17:42] After my severe depression, I became
[17:44] someone who had been to a psychiatric
[17:46] hospital. Don't be scared. Let's change
[17:48] the name to "Mental Health Center,"
[17:51] that sounds a bit more central and
[17:53] better, right? Yes, I’ve noticed that
[17:56] many friends, even in conversation,
[17:59] will avoid this word.
[18:00] >> Stigma.
[18:02] >> It is stigma; yes, that’s it, exactly
[18:05] .
[18:05] >> There is a very detailed description in
[18:07] that book, saying that when he had
[18:10] moderate depression, he felt like he
[18:12] was inside a frosted glass house. It
[18:14] looked transparent, yet he couldn't get
[18:16] out, and it kept getting narrower. I
[18:18] was deeply impressed by that
[18:19] description at the time; I could truly
[18:21] feel that suffocating sensation.
[18:23] >> Actually, I had that feeling myself
[18:25] back then, because for a few months I
[18:26] couldn't sleep at all. I tried taking
[18:28] sleeping pills to sleep, but later, one
[18:30] day, I found that even with pills, I
[18:32] still couldn't sleep. Sigh, I just kept
[18:34] suffering through it like that,
[18:35] struggling along. I endured until five
[18:37] or six in the morning, when the sky was
[18:39] just starting to brighten, and when I
[18:41] finally dozed off, I entered a dream. I
[18:42] dreamt I was in a room made of frosted
[18:44] glass on all sides, only about a square
[18:46] meter in size. I could barely turn
[18:48] around, or rather, I had that feeling
[18:50] of not being able to turn at all.
[18:52] Looking back on it now, that was
[18:54] exactly what a coffin looked like. Ah.
[18:57] >> Do you think so? Isn't that exactly
[18:59] what it was? It was just like that,
[19:00] wasn't it? But I mention this because
[19:02] destiny is very strange. We definitely
[19:05] shouldn't be superstitious, and I don't
[19:07] think this has anything to do with
[19:08] superstition. I'm just telling my own
[19:10] true experience. At that moment, I
[19:13] clearly heard footsteps outside, gentle
[19:15] footsteps, and then someone gently
[19:17] knocking on the door—though I didn't
[19:19] even know where the door was—that
[19:21] kind of knocking sound. It was my
[19:23] mother's voice. My mother called out my
[19:26] childhood nickname. "Jia'er, come out.
[19:32] Jia'er, be a good boy and come out." I
[19:38] woke up instantly, drenched in sweat.
[19:43] You see, at that moment, it was really
[19:46] hot, and I was truly, almost completely
[19:48] paralyzed. But, I calmed myself down a
[19:51] little, reached for my phone on the
[19:53] bedside table, and called my spouse.
[19:55] Because my spouse was 500 kilometers
[19:58] away, and I was somewhere else. We
[20:00] hadn't been home for two or three
[20:02] months. Back then, I didn't want to
[20:05] worry them, so I hadn't told them
[20:06] anything throughout this whole process.
[20:09] But I decided I had to call and say I
[20:11] was sick, I was really sick.
[20:13] >> Calling for help.
[20:15] >> Calling for help.
[20:16] >> I was just wondering, for instance,
[20:19] with your mother's passing, do you feel
[20:21] like there is a hole in your life?
[20:24] >> Of course. That’s why I’m telling
[20:27] you, my depression is related to this.
[20:29] It's related, but I have truly suffered
[20:32] in life, enduring a great deal of
[20:34] pressure at the time, perhaps a weight
[20:36] too heavy to bear, which might have led
[20:39] me to...but you see, the huge void left
[20:41] after my mother passed away has never
[20:44] been filled, and that is actually also.
[20:46] >> It is a shadow. It is a shadow, so you
[20:50] see, at my most difficult times, when
[20:52] I’ve fallen into the deepest abyss,
[20:55] you see, I can feel my mother. Even
[20:57] though she is far away in heaven, I can
[20:59] hear her voice—it is so clear, so
[21:02] vivid; I can even hear her footsteps as
[21:04] she walks toward me. Including when I
[21:07] decided to go to the hospital, I called
[21:09] my wife, and she said, "Come back
[21:11] immediately." She said, "Don't be
[21:13] afraid, just come back," telling me to
[21:16] drop everything and return at once. I
[21:18] took a plane back, and when I arrived
[21:20] downstairs, my wife was waiting for me.
[21:23] I thought, "Finally, seeing her joyful
[21:25] face, I'm home, everything will be
[21:27] alright." But in truth, I was already
[21:30] very, very ill. My wife later told me
[21:32] that she knew I was severely ill based
[21:34] on one sign: at that time, my son was
[21:36] in his third year of middle school, and
[21:38] she had to go out, so she told me to
[21:40] look after our son at home. But when
[21:42] she returned, she found that my son and
[21:45] I had nothing to say to each other; I
[21:47] hadn't spoken to him at all. She knew
[21:50] then that I was ill, and severely so,
[21:52] because my son is my life; how could we
[21:55] be together and have nothing to say to
[21:58] each other? How could we, my son and I,
[22:01] be in the same space and have
[22:03] absolutely no words to exchange?
[22:05] That’s when she knew I was already in
[22:07] a very bad state. I was essentially a
[22:09] shell of myself, so I decided to check
[22:12] into the hospital. However, the doctor
[22:14] who received me was, perhaps I was just
[22:17] unlucky, but truthfully, that doctor
[22:19] was unprofessional. Why? Because while
[22:22] listening to me, he didn't even wait
[22:24] three minutes before looking at me like
[22:26] this—and I'm not exaggerating, this
[22:28] left a deep mark on me—he just said,
[22:30] "Alright, alright, I've seen many cases
[22:32] like yours. Let me write a note; just
[22:34] go ahead and get admitted to the
[22:36] hospital, go handle the admission
[22:38] procedures." I felt that look in his
[22:40] eyes, and I was instantly in total
[22:42] despair; I completely broke down,
[22:44] knowing right then that this doctor
[22:46] could never cure my illness. At any
[22:49] rate, deep down inside, I just knew it.
[22:52] I didn't even go through the admission
[22:54] process; I stood right there in the
[22:56] hallway and called my partner, telling
[22:58] them this doctor wasn't the one. I said
[23:00] the look in this doctor's eyes made me
[23:03] collapse, and I felt he couldn't treat
[23:06] me, so I said I wanted to come back. My
[23:09] partner immediately replied, saying, "
[23:11] I've already done the work; before you
[23:14] even went, I had looked it all up. Go
[23:17] to Jiangsu right away, to the PLA
[23:19] Mental Health Center. Leave immediately
[23:21] , travel through the night, don't stop,
[23:24] go now." Oh, I was absolutely exhausted
[23:27] ! At that moment, I felt...I was just
[23:30] drained, as if my whole being was in a
[23:33] floating state. I felt that my soul, my
[23:36] spirit, and everything else weren't
[23:38] even in my body; it was that kind of
[23:40] state, a state of being completely
[23:42] detached. When we finally arrived at
[23:45] that hospital and got settled, I called
[23:48] my partner, because they had asked me
[23:50] to call once I arrived. Once everything
[23:54] was settled, I called and said, "Hey,
[23:57] I've arrived, I've checked in." There
[23:59] was this look of pure joy, a voice full
[24:02] of joy, saying, "Oh, that's great,
[24:04] that's wonderful!""I'm walking toward
[24:07] the river now. I just bought the things
[24:11] I needed, and I'm going to burn
[24:12] offerings for Grandma by the river,
[24:14] then I'll be there first thing tomorrow
[24:16] morning." It was such a joyful thing,
[24:20] hearing them say they were going to
[24:22] burn offerings for Grandma. After I
[24:29] hung up the phone, I just started
[24:32] crying so hard, I really just broke
[24:35] down. But, truly, that was exactly what
[24:41] I needed. At that time, that was the
[24:45] lifeline in my life's reality, the
[24:47] final straw for my spirit, the anchor
[24:50] that kept me from drifting into the
[24:52] abyss. And you see, you see, they were
[24:56] able to reach out and hold onto me.
[25:00] They were able to catch me. So
[25:03] >> You are also very lucky.
[25:05] >> I am lucky, I am very lucky. The
[25:12] turning point in my life was actually
[25:14] when my mother passed away, and after I
[25:16] went through that serious illness and
[25:19] recovered, I felt that I had gone
[25:21] through a transformation, I shed a
[25:23] layer of skin.
[25:27] >> What were you like before you shed that
[25:30] skin? If you had to describe yourself
[25:33] in a few words.
[25:37] >> Well, if you want me to describe the
[25:40] difference between before and after, I
[25:42] actually find it hard to pinpoint. But
[25:48] what I just want to tell you is, um...
[25:50] >> Or forget the difference.
[25:52] >> Okay, okay, no difference then, right,
[25:54] no difference, so just simple. Just
[25:57] simple, but it is simple, meaning if
[25:59] you dare to say it, I dare to believe
[26:01] you. Isn't it the same now? You...
[26:04] >> Even now I still dare to say it, I am
[26:05] still like this, I was like this in the
[26:07] past, and I am still like this now.
[26:09] >> I was in the past, but it's different
[26:11] now. It's like seeing mountains as
[26:13] mountains and water as water; after I
[26:15] went through a process of seeing
[26:16] mountains not as mountains and water
[26:18] not as water, I now see mountains as
[26:19] mountains and water as water again.
[26:21] >> So that means what didn't kill you made
[26:24] you stronger, right?
[26:25] >> That's the feeling.
[26:27] >> You mentioned your spouse earlier,
[26:29] let's talk about something lighter.
[26:31] Your story with your spouse is really
[26:34] interesting. You liked her since
[26:36] freshman year at Hubei University,
[26:38] right, but you never dared to confess
[26:40] your feelings?
[26:41] >> Yes.
[26:42] >> And then, until senior year, or junior/
[26:44] senior year, you both developed some
[26:46] feelings for each other?
[26:48] >> Yes.
[26:49] >> Why didn't you dare to confess earlier?
[26:51] I liked her since freshman year, but I
[26:53] never dared to confess. That was
[26:55] actually due to the deep-seated
[26:57] inferiority I felt as a child from a
[26:59] mountain village, that kind of feeling
[27:01] of not daring. I felt like there was a
[27:03] class divide between us, even just
[27:06] looking at her back was something I
[27:08] envied—it was that kind of feeling.
[27:11] Think about it, when I graduated from
[27:13] junior high, I was 1.56 meters, then in
[27:16] my first year of high school I suddenly
[27:19] grew to 1.74 meters, and I’m only
[27:21] 1.75 meters now. I weigh 140 jin now,
[27:24] but I was 114 jin when I started
[27:27] college. Can you imagine? Being this
[27:30] tall at 114 jin, what do you think I
[27:32] looked like? You see, growing up in the
[27:35] countryside, I was a person who went
[27:37] hungry, can you see that? Look, my arms
[27:39] were very thin, and like that, just
[27:41] like that, I went to the city to fish.
[27:43] It was my first time getting into
[27:45] college, and my first time leaving my
[27:47] hometown. It took two days and two
[27:49] nights to get there. She grew up in a
[27:51] big city, had excellent grades, was a
[27:53] student leader, and came from an
[27:55] educated family—it was everything.
[27:58] >> She was really well-rounded in every
[28:00] way.
[28:00] >> It was truly just like that, honestly.
[28:03] You wouldn't even dare to admit you
[28:04] liked her in your subconscious; you
[28:06] wouldn't dare say it. Were you even
[28:08] worthy of liking someone like her?
[28:10] Actually, deep down, that was still the
[28:12] feeling. May I ask, how can a person
[28:15] overcome this kind of inferiority and
[28:18] move past it?
[28:19] >> Well, love.
[28:20] >> Speaking for myself, love is, of course
[28:23] , a very beautiful and magical thing.
[28:26] For me personally, it was my spouse who
[28:29] helped me get through it. It was in my
[28:31] junior year during a class. Back then,
[28:34] the girls always sat in the front and
[28:36] the guys sat in the back. The girls
[28:38] were always more attentive in class,
[28:40] while the guys were a bit slack, but
[28:42] that specific class was quite boring. I
[28:45] guess she also felt that class wasn't
[28:47] important, so she wasn't eager to grab
[28:49] a front seat. She walked in right at
[28:52] the last minute and just happened to
[28:55] sit next to me. Then, when class ended,
[28:58] she handed me a small piece of paper.
[29:02] On the note was a poem. She said, "Hey,
[29:05] this class is really boring.""I just
[29:08] saw this in a magazine—back then we
[29:10] had 'Readers' and 'Youth Digest' as our
[29:12] campus staples—and this poem is quite
[29:14] good." It was a poem. You see, she had
[29:17] been practicing calligraphy since she
[29:19] was six years old. Her handwriting was
[29:21] excellent, on the level of a
[29:22] professional calligrapher. She was
[29:24] someone certified by the China
[29:26] Calligraphers Association. She likely
[29:29] had the habit of practicing, so she
[29:31] wrote this poem in pen; it was about a
[29:34] kind of fate. She gave it to me. Seeing
[29:37] that poem, seeing that title about a
[29:39] fate that makes one yearn, a longing
[29:42] that cannot be hidden, a feeling that
[29:44] moves heaven and earth—I just looked
[29:47] at it and...
[29:47] >> Anyway, she just handed it to me
[29:50] casually. She didn't say much else, and
[29:52] after we left the classroom, we each
[29:54] went our separate ways. But for me, I
[29:57] stayed up the entire night. I couldn't
[30:00] sleep at all. I just kept reading that
[30:03] poem over and over again, countless
[30:05] times. The next morning, I skipped
[30:07] class. I decided to skip class and went
[30:10] to the library. I wanted to find a
[30:12] quiet corner to write the first letter
[30:14] of my life. A letter to my beloved, to
[30:17] go with the book I gave her. Honestly,
[30:19] I wanted to muster all my wit and
[30:22] talent—that meager bit of talent I
[30:25] had. There was no AI back then, so I
[30:29] poured my full understanding of the
[30:32] poem into writing my most sincere
[30:34] feelings, expressing just how much I
[30:36] loved it. Actually, that was the first
[30:40] time I had read it. And then, I made
[30:42] sure to compliment her handwriting. I
[30:45] praised how well she wrote. That’s
[30:47] just how it was, anyway. After I wrote
[30:49] it, I wasn’t satisfied with the first
[30:51] draft, so I copied it over again and
[30:53] again. I was very meticulous and tried
[30:55] my absolute best to write clearly. Then
[30:57] , after class, I pretended to walk by
[31:00] her side inadvertently. She didn't seem
[31:03] surprised to see it. I just said, "You
[31:07] wrote that poem so well yesterday," and
[31:10] then added, "Look, I wrote a little
[31:12] reflection on it." I gave it to her,
[31:16] she took it, and that was that.
[31:20] Afterward, it seemed like there wasn't
[31:22] much between us, but at least it was a
[31:25] starting point. Then, gradually, we
[31:29] started to have things to talk about.
[31:31] Slowly, on the way home from school,
[31:33] while getting water, on the way to eat,
[31:36] or on the playground, I would notice—
[31:38] at that time, I was a member of the
[31:40] school and department volleyball teams,
[31:42] and the star player for the math
[31:44] department. And I would occasionally
[31:46] notice, after I made a good spike, that
[31:48] she was among the people on the
[31:50] sidelines jumping up and applauding.
[31:52] Well, that’s when I slowly started to
[31:54] get the feeling that something was
[31:55] there. Anyway, that’s basically how
[31:58] our story began. So let me tell you,
[32:00] the main point comes later. For our
[32:02] 20th anniversary, I carefully selected
[32:05] 20 photos. These were from our 20 years
[32:08] of marriage. The first page was from
[32:10] this year, then I turned the page to
[32:11] last year, and kept going until the
[32:13] very last year. The very last page was
[32:16] the photo from our wedding. On the back
[32:20] cover, I printed a photo of the note
[32:22] she had given me all those years ago.
[32:27] >> Ah.
[32:28] >> It was carefully chosen, and I handed
[32:30] it to her on our wedding anniversary.
[32:33] Of course, she was incredibly happy
[32:35] when she received it. He called me in
[32:37] the evening, feeling so joyful, just so
[32:39] joyful. It was like a pot of boiling
[32:41] water bubbling over, a kind of joy you
[32:43] simply couldn't contain. Then I asked
[32:45] him, "Are you happy?" He said yes, so I
[32:48] asked, "Did you see my design?" The
[32:51] part at the very end, the mountain wind
[32:53] . He said, "Yes, I saw it." He asked, "
[32:57] Does that have any special meaning?" I
[32:59] said I actually wanted to tell our son,
[33:02] and for him to tell our grandchildren
[33:04] in the future. "An iron fortress, like
[33:06] a mountain." Back then, you were the
[33:09] one who gave it to me first. And do you
[33:11] know how my partner reacted? My partner
[33:13] said, "What do you mean?""Back then,
[33:15] the class was just so boring, I
[33:17] casually wrote down, or rather copied,
[33:19] that poem.""Then I just shared it with
[33:21] you because you were sitting next to me
[33:23] , and seeing that you usually wrote
[33:25] poetry or were in the campus literary
[33:27] club, I just shared it. You're
[33:29] overthinking it." But it was so
[33:31] blissful, truly blissful. That’s you
[33:34] being humble-bragging on a grand scale.
[33:36] >> But why do you think today's college
[33:38] students and so on don't really date
[33:40] anymore? It’s said that the cost of
[33:42] expressing interest or facing rejection
[33:43] is too high. Like, if I can’t be sure
[33:45] of the result, why bother putting in
[33:47] the effort? Can you understand that?
[33:49] >> I can understand it, I truly can. Is it
[33:52] possible that if a person can receive
[33:54] love from someone they value, love is
[33:56] actually a form of validation? I don't
[33:58] know if it's right to see it that way,
[34:00] that love is a form of self-validation.
[34:02] >> That’s why I sometimes wonder why
[34:04] some people feel so incredibly
[34:05] desperate when they experience
[34:07] heartbreak.
[34:07] >> Some people even take extreme paths,
[34:09] maybe because that validation is gone?
[34:11] Because the person they love, the
[34:13] person they validate, doesn't validate
[34:15] them back, and their self-validation
[34:17] crumbles. I don’t know, I don’t
[34:18] have that kind of psychological insight
[34:20] , but back then, you...
[34:22] >> You received that validation, the
[34:24] ultimate validation.
[34:25] >> Do you know what? This extreme form of
[34:28] validation is simply that the person
[34:30] you like happens to like you back. The
[34:32] person you really like—later on,
[34:35] before our wedding, I finally confirmed
[34:37] that he really, truly liked me.
[34:39] >> Wow.
[34:40] >> Oh, the feeling! I'm telling you, there
[34:43] is a kind of happiness in life where
[34:45] you end up with your first love, and
[34:47] we’ve walked this path all the way to
[34:49] today, right?
[34:50] >> So, later on, in your interactions with
[34:52] your partner, do you rely on him a lot?
[34:54] For instance, like you mentioned
[34:56] earlier, when you...
[34:57] >> Mm.
[34:58] >> When your mental state was so
[34:59] completely broken.
[35:00] >> Mm.
[35:01] >> Would you call him for help at those
[35:03] times? Mm.
[35:04] >> Yes, at such critical moments, and
[35:07] while reading your book, we saw that
[35:09] whenever you faced various hardships, a
[35:12] single word from him or a phone call to
[35:15] him for help was all it took. Is he
[35:18] your spiritual pillar? I honestly
[35:21] haven't thought about this question. No
[35:23] friend has ever asked me this before,
[35:26] so let me ponder it. I am thinking, yes
[35:29] , I...Since my mother passed away, my
[35:34] wife, Wu Yizhong, has actually taken on
[35:37] that role. The women in your life are
[35:39] very important to you.
[35:43] >> Yes, yes, that’s just how it is.
[35:51] That’s how it is. Are they my support
[35:58] system?
[36:02] >> I saw this in your book, a statistic
[36:04] from back then. You mentioned that in
[36:07] 2020, the detection rate of depression
[36:09] among teenagers in our country was 24.6
[36:12] %, meaning one in four.
[36:13] >> So, one child is unhappy.
[36:15] >> Right, and I also learned that in
[36:17] elementary school, it's about 10%,
[36:18] meaning one out of every ten elementary
[36:20] students.
[36:20] >> One is unhappy.
[36:21] >> My goodness, that's unhappy.
[36:23] >> Your childhood was so difficult. You
[36:26] were able to overcome that sense of
[36:27] inferiority—I don't know if
[36:29] inferiority is a driving force—but
[36:31] since their material conditions are
[36:32] surely better than yours were, why are
[36:34] they so unhappy?
[36:35] >> Mm-hmm. Sigh, every generation has its
[36:38] own struggles, but I feel that children
[36:40] today really have it harder than our
[36:41] generation did. Mm.
[36:43] >> Today's young people all have it harder
[36:46] than our generation. You see, even
[36:48] though our starting point in life was
[36:51] very low, I still represent the
[36:53] generation that most fully enjoyed the
[36:55] dividends of this era.
[36:57] >> The dividends of that era were
[36:59] completely, absolutely enjoyed by us.
[37:02] Think about it, I was born in '70. When
[37:04] I just started school, just started
[37:06] elementary school. When the Cultural
[37:09] Revolution began and I entered middle
[37:11] school—good heavens—that beautiful
[37:13] 80s era, the age of poetry and song,
[37:15] right? Then we started college in '88,
[37:17] and when we graduated in '92—at the
[37:19] beginning of '92—I remember the front
[37:21] pages of all the newspapers in China
[37:23] were talking about "The spring breeze
[37:25] from the East," the vigorous reform and
[37:27] opening up. It was all sorts of things.
[37:30] Even though rural areas were still a
[37:32] bit dilapidated back then, and city
[37:34] infrastructure was nothing like what it
[37:37] is today, you could feel that the era
[37:40] was full of vitality. The society was
[37:42] overflowing with opportunities; there
[37:45] were chances everywhere. Not to mention
[37:48] after joining the WTO, as China's
[37:50] reform and opening-up entered deep
[37:53] waters, my goodness, how many human
[37:55] miracles were created? But overall, our
[37:58] status back then was "developing."
[38:00] >> Mm-hmm.
[38:02] >> Honestly speaking, objectively speaking
[38:04] , we are now "developed." We have
[38:06] already developed. You mentioned that
[38:09] your era seemed to be one that allowed
[38:10] for romance. To be romantic, you first
[38:13] have to be slow; if it's fast, it just
[38:15] doesn't work. But it was great to
[38:17] discover that.
[38:18] >> Great to discover. What you're talking
[38:20] about isn't just happening in China.
[38:22] Many college students—I remember you
[38:24] once used the term "lost generation,"
[38:25] meaning people who have lost their
[38:27] direction. They have a great education,
[38:29] right? They come from good family
[38:31] backgrounds, yet they can't seem to see
[38:33] that long-term direction in life.
[38:35] >> This isn't just in China. I once saw
[38:38] that even the elites at Ivy League
[38:40] schools are the same.
[38:41] >> There was a university president who
[38:43] said that many of these kids are
[38:45] graduates of prestigious schools from
[38:47] well-off families, but he felt that
[38:49] while they could solve immediate
[38:51] problems because they are smart, they
[38:53] didn't know why they were solving them
[38:55] or why they were doing these things.
[38:57] Everyone felt lost regarding their
[38:59] direction and motivation in life; they
[39:01] just didn't know.
[39:02] >> And I think there's a good reference
[39:03] point, like your son.
[39:05] >> Yes.
[39:06] >> He is a young person. Is he...
[39:08] >> A post-90s kid?
[39:09] >> He was born at the end of '96. Born at
[39:11] the end of '96. If you compare him to
[39:13] the majority of young people today—
[39:15] and you have the corresponding data
[39:17] since you are an authority on this—
[39:19] >> Where do you see the difference between
[39:21] him and most of the young people you
[39:23] observe today? Not even comparing your
[39:25] era to the current generation.
[39:31] >> You asked about this, and it is indeed
[39:34] something I am quite proud of: my son
[39:37] is a whole person. How do I explain the
[39:44] word "whole"? Even though he doesn't
[39:47] have a job yet because he's still
[39:48] pursuing his PhD, I don't really expect
[39:51] him to achieve great career success,
[39:52] nor do I expect him to be famous in the
[39:54] future. But I can still draw the
[39:59] conclusion even now that he is a whole
[40:02] person. How do I put it? Although he
[40:08] has many flaws, his values are very
[40:11] sound. We are working on this charity
[40:16] project together, reading books, taking
[40:19] me to the mountains and the sea. This
[40:21] project was conceptualized by my son,
[40:23] asking: what are we really trying to
[40:26] achieve with this new era of
[40:28] philanthropic education? Look at these
[40:30] nine characters he proposed. I’ve
[40:33] been thinking about why he came up with
[40:36] these nine characters. Because he
[40:38] embodies these nine characters. Ability
[40:41] to think. Compassion and freedom. Just
[40:45] these nine characters. My son fits
[40:47] these nine characters perfectly. May I
[40:50] interpret this as your observation of
[40:52] today's young people, such as the high
[40:54] incidence of depression, anxiety, and
[40:56] emotional disorders, which are much
[40:58] more prevalent than in the past?
[41:00] >> Much higher.
[41:01] >> So, when you mention these nine
[41:03] characters, do you feel that they are
[41:05] actually missing one of these aspects?
[41:07] >> Yes, exactly. I find this program today
[41:11] very interesting. If we can use your
[41:15] platform to spread this educational
[41:17] philosophy, I think it would be great.
[41:21] First, regarding "ability to think,"
[41:23] its deeper meaning is having a pair of
[41:26] eyes that can see the world.
[41:28] >> Is that a high requirement?
[41:31] >> It’s not high. You don't have to go
[41:34] abroad to see the world, but you must
[41:36] have a broad perspective. Don't sit at
[41:40] the bottom of a well feeling
[41:42] sentimental; don't be misled by those
[41:44] whose families are actually in the U.S.
[41:47] while they earn "patriotic" money
[41:49] domestically. That is the ability to
[41:52] think; that is the most basic form of
[41:54] thinking. Right? And as for compassion,
[41:58] it is especially important. Beyond your
[42:05] own academic grades, your future family
[42:08] , your house, your money, your
[42:10] promotion, your career advancement, and
[42:13] your business ventures—deep down, do
[42:15] you have concern for the vulnerable in
[42:18] society? There will always be someone
[42:24] weaker than you, no matter how weak you
[42:26] are. It’s really true, this is not
[42:30] just empty talk. It’s also about
[42:32] perception.
[42:33] >> Being able to see others.
[42:35] >> Being able to see others—that’s it.
[42:36] That is what we call compassion.
[42:38] Actually, I don’t require you to quit
[42:41] your job to do charity, like insisting
[42:43] you must go to a mountain village to
[42:45] teach or work in cancer wards; that’s
[42:47] not what charity is. In fact, this
[42:49] sense of care is really about a child's
[42:51] developmental process. That’s a
[42:53] dimension I believe must exist. The
[42:56] prerequisite is that they see others,
[42:58] and going a step further, if they are
[43:00] to see others, they must first have
[43:01] love within themselves.
[43:03] >> So, it’s about having a growth
[43:05] experience filled with love, is that it
[43:07] ?
[43:07] >> Yes, that’s right. You see, you
[43:09] touched on a key point, which aligns
[43:12] with one of the tenets of modern
[43:13] Western psychology. As Freud would say.
[43:17] Actually,
[43:18] >> Love and work are the cures for
[43:19] everything. Do you understand? Do you
[43:22] see? That’s why I emphasize that this
[43:24] sense of care is so important, right?
[43:26] >> Then what do you mean by this "love for
[43:28] freedom" you mentioned?
[43:29] >> Yes, love for freedom. Freedom is a
[43:33] good word, an incredibly, incredibly
[43:36] beautiful word. We should shout it out
[43:42] loud—loving freedom means I do not
[43:45] accept being passively bound; I refuse
[43:49] all passive constraints. It means I am
[43:53] my own person. That’s why I say
[43:56] it’s not just about freedom, but
[43:58] loving freedom.
[43:59] >> Hmm.
[44:01] >> For example, in 2018 and 2019, I
[44:03] brought children from mountain villages
[44:05] in Guizhou to the seaside in Shenzhen
[44:07] to see the ocean. After the special
[44:10] difficulties arose in 2020, none of the
[44:12] children were allowed to travel. I
[44:14] didn't want to stop the project, so I
[44:17] brought scientists, professors,
[44:19] musicians, painters, and volunteers to
[44:21] pack up the wonders of the ocean and
[44:24] take them to the mountain villages
[44:26] since the kids couldn't attend the camp
[44:29] . It turned out that one child, just
[44:31] after attending our opening ceremony in
[44:33] the afternoon, lost the spark in her
[44:36] eyes during our evening activities and
[44:38] came to me, saying, "Teacher Chen, I—
[44:40] I have to go back. I have to go back
[44:43] tomorrow." I asked, "Why?" She said, "
[44:47] My father has come to find me.""Because
[44:49] my father is working in the township,
[44:51] and my mother is also working in the
[44:53] town cooking for others. Plus, my
[44:56] grandfather at home isn't in very good
[44:58] health, and we have a little brother, a
[45:01] nine-year-old, so I have to go back to
[45:03] cook for him.""To take care of him."
[45:08] For this girl, I only asked her one
[45:11] thing. I said, "Tell me, do you want to
[45:15] stay?" He didn't say a word. He just
[45:20] kept nodding like that, with tears
[45:23] running down his face. I said, "I'm
[45:28] fine." When I went there, the local
[45:31] deputy county magistrate came to see me
[45:33] , so I entrusted this task to him. I
[45:37] knew I couldn't persuade him, so I told
[45:39] the deputy magistrate, "Find out this
[45:41] child's name, which town and village
[45:44] she's from, and her father's name, then
[45:46] help me convince him.""Allow his
[45:49] daughter to stay and finish our program
[45:52] ." The deputy magistrate resolved it
[45:54] immediately. I was actually thinking
[45:57] about this, about the love of freedom.
[46:01] We can look at this girl; she didn't
[46:03] talk back to her father, nor did she
[46:06] offend him. Although she was forced to
[46:10] obey at that moment, within her
[46:12] upbringing, she felt she had no choice
[46:15] but to obey, right? But before she
[46:18] decided to go back with her father, she
[46:21] could have just grabbed her things at
[46:23] the door and left. She decided to wait
[46:26] until we finished our session to come
[46:28] and find me and Chen privately. Mmh.
[46:34] >> She came to seek help, and she knew I
[46:36] could help her. She was sensitive
[46:40] enough to feel that only I could help
[46:43] her. Let me put it this way. This is
[46:47] what freedom is. I think any child, as
[46:50] we grow into adulthood, will face
[46:52] countless constraints, but you
[46:54] shouldn't love those constraints. You
[46:56] shouldn't easily accept them; it's
[46:58] wrong to reach the point where you love
[47:01] those bonds.
[47:01] >> But this requires immense awareness and
[47:04] observation.
[47:05] >> So, this is where we educators come in.
[47:07] I feel that as educators in this new
[47:09] era, especially from the perspective of
[47:10] our charity work, do we still need to
[47:12] lecture children on formulas? Lecture
[47:14] children on memorization and recitation
[47:16] ? If those are things that can be
[47:17] learned within the school system, then
[47:19] I think, as you mentioned, there is
[47:21] this word: "awareness."
[47:23] >> You think even a child that small has
[47:25] it naturally; you just have to talk to
[47:27] them. You actually have to draw it out.
[47:30] >> Yes, you need to draw it out, you need
[47:33] to light it up. So, how should I put it
[47:36] ? This is it—what is education?
[47:40] Education is, it is about taking that
[47:43] thing every child has inside them, you
[47:46] help them find it, you nurture that
[47:48] heart, let it slowly burn brighter,
[47:51] until it can blaze fiercely. If you can
[47:54] help add fuel to that fire, that is
[47:57] what education is. So, I actually
[48:00] really love a line by Xi Murong.
[48:03] >> Mm-hmm.
[48:04] >> Let’s just keep walking on like this,
[48:07] on this road filled with wind and sand.
[48:09] We must protect that burning hope
[48:12] within our hearts. We must protect that
[48:14] flickering hope of burning in our
[48:17] hearts. Have you noticed that so many
[48:19] young people today fall into spiritual
[48:22] confusion? These teenagers, they
[48:27] actually have that burning hope within
[48:29] them too, but it needs to be...Actually
[48:32] , I would like to share this with my
[48:34] young friends: your Teacher Chen here,
[48:37] your fifty-something-year-old Teacher
[48:39] Chen, the fire in my heart has never
[48:42] gone out, and right now it’s in a
[48:44] state of blazing glory. I want you to
[48:49] see that.
[48:50] >> You truly have a way about you. Hearing
[48:53] this, I feel you are truly a chosen one
[48:56] . We say you understand the suffering
[48:58] of the people, the needs of the masses,
[49:00] you've worked in government departments
[49:02] , and you know how to deal with all
[49:05] kinds of institutions. One could even
[49:08] say your person, your life story,
[49:10] aligns perfectly with our traditional
[49:13] moral and value systems—look at
[49:16] filial piety. Loyalty to family, to
[49:19] your work, right? Dedication to public
[49:21] service, right? All these values that
[49:24] we consider beautiful are embodied in
[49:26] you. Your fans, I've heard it said, are
[49:29] very loyal. Among your monthly active
[49:31] users are delivery drivers and so on;
[49:33] everyone is willing to help because
[49:35] they trust you.
[49:35] >> Yes.
[49:37] >> Right? It's just trusting you; they
[49:39] don't necessarily know much about the
[49:40] organization, but they trust you.
[49:42] >> We actually all know that in an ideal
[49:44] state, one shouldn't just trust an
[49:45] individual,
[49:46] >> but rather trust the entire
[49:48] organization or its design.
[49:50] >> Exactly. I actually really hope now to
[49:59] gradually shift this trust my friends
[50:01] have in me toward the organization I
[50:04] founded and the cause I am dedicated to
[50:06] . I truly hope I can accomplish this
[50:16] transition. To be honest, what you said
[50:19] is exactly right. I can see the
[50:22] profiles of my users in the backend,
[50:24] and their keywords are simply "Teacher
[50:27] Chen." Right, they are here for me. So
[50:31] I thought, through public welfare
[50:33] communication, I want to share my
[50:35] methodology with the public, to show
[50:38] that Chen Xing's approach to public
[50:40] welfare isn't about moral posturing. He
[50:44] doesn't stand on a moral high ground to
[50:47] self-aggrandize; instead, he faces real
[50:50] needs with scientific design, precise
[50:52] execution, standardized management,
[50:55] transparent finances, and independent
[50:58] third-party oversight and evaluation.
[51:01] Through my public communication, I want
[51:03] everyone to know what a truly good
[51:06] public welfare and charity project
[51:08] looks like. It should be like this: the
[51:12] calling of a true philanthropy
[51:14] professional is to conduct professional
[51:17] charity, not to move society. Using
[51:21] suffering to move society, or even hold
[51:24] it hostage—that shouldn't be the way.
[51:29] Therefore, professional philanthropists
[51:32] must be people capable of improving the
[51:34] overall efficiency of society,
[51:36] significantly and effectively. Rescuing
[51:41] those in distress. You can save one or
[51:44] two people. That is very good for the
[51:46] individuals, but for professional
[51:48] charitable organizations, if you only
[51:50] focus on emergency rescue, you will
[51:53] never be able to save everyone. And you
[51:55] won't be able to achieve balance either
[51:57] . I am curious, through your efforts
[52:00] over these many years, you previously
[52:02] mentioned that the keyword for the
[52:04] donor profile was "Teacher Chen." Has
[52:06] that changed after all this time?
[52:08] >> It has changed, which is why I'm quite
[52:10] heartened; I wanted to share this with
[52:13] everyone because I see hope for the
[52:15] entire philanthropic cause in China.
[52:17] Seeing this change is why I say this.
[52:19] For instance, our project keywords will
[52:22] emerge. Yes, among them, because we
[52:24] have nearly 40,000 monthly donors—
[52:27] people donating 10 or 20 yuan a month
[52:29] —the maximum is actually only 500.
[52:31] This monthly donation design is
[52:32] particularly wonderful; even if you are
[52:34] a billionaire, you can only donate 500
[52:36] yuan, because you cannot donate more
[52:37] than that. That’s how it’s designed
[52:39] ; it’s actually not about raising
[52:40] money, but about gathering people. Yes,
[52:42] people who share the same heart and
[52:44] vision as you along the way. So, the
[52:47] data behind them is vast. From your
[52:49] feedback and comments, you can see this
[52:52] big data. In fact, there are months
[52:54] where you would see that "Teacher Chen"
[52:57] is not the top, or even in the top nine
[52:59] . Yes, of course, I am still at the
[53:01] front, but that is ultimately the final
[53:04] keyword. For example, this month, we
[53:06] have been working intensively for the "
[53:08] Spark Baby" project and for the
[53:10] children of those heroes. You will see
[53:12] that keywords like "passing the spark,"
[53:14] "new spark," and "hero" will see a
[53:16] significant upward trend.
[53:18] >> Mm-hmm.
[53:19] >> That's how it is.
[53:20] >> I previously asked a friend who also
[53:22] works in public welfare, and he said
[53:24] that, how should I put it, the hardest
[53:26] part of doing this is that people still
[53:28] prefer hearing stories and having their
[53:30] emotions stirred.
[53:31] >> Rather than, say, discussing how this
[53:34] might impact the social level; people
[53:36] don't like listening to theories. They
[53:38] like emotion.
[53:39] >> Yes.
[53:40] >> Those words you mentioned earlier
[53:41] actually do hit on certain emotions.
[53:43] >> Yes, yes, yes.
[53:44] >> It's very interesting. Listening to
[53:47] your stories today, I feel there is a
[53:49] very dialectical and complex sensation
[53:51] within them. We carry a kind of—you
[53:53] could call it a pure heart or whatever
[53:55] you like. But as you navigate through,
[53:57] you are bound to encounter many gray
[53:59] areas.
[53:59] >> Yes, yes, yes.
[54:00] >> But in this, one also really needs to
[54:03] gain wisdom. Like you, I noticed that
[54:05] when you do public welfare, you don't
[54:06] just do it blindly. You know how to
[54:08] find a focal point, the scope can't be
[54:10] too big at first, and you have to find
[54:12] a place where perhaps...
[54:13] >> I can develop it, and maybe I even have
[54:15] some rapport with the officials there,
[54:16] and they are willing to help.
[54:18] >> It's a must. Look, every single one of
[54:20] my projects is done in cooperation with
[54:21] the government.
[54:22] >> See, this is mine—this is what makes
[54:23] me different. I cooperate with the
[54:25] government on every single project. I
[54:27] always cooperate with local governments
[54:29] .
[54:29] >> Is this a path you've learned from your
[54:31] past experience?
[54:32] >> No. This is my observation of Chinese
[54:36] society. The original underlying logic
[54:39] of my projects is all like this. And
[54:42] why? I want to integrate and complement
[54:45] the government. I am doing public
[54:47] welfare and charity, not trying to
[54:49] steal the limelight from the government
[54:52] , nor am I trying to build a presence
[54:54] in areas the government neglects. It's
[54:57] not like that. I want to integrate and
[55:00] complement them. First, my most basic,
[55:02] bottom-line requirement is that I must
[55:04] report and inform them, then obtain
[55:07] their permission to operate there. That
[55:09] is the bare minimum. But all my
[55:12] projects go beyond that baseline. So,
[55:14] what does going beyond the baseline
[55:16] mean? We hope to gain their trust and
[55:19] work with them. I have achieved this
[55:21] step in every single one of my projects
[55:23] .
[55:23] >> Isn't this something your previous
[55:25] professional experience taught you? The
[55:27] advantage my professional experience
[55:30] gives me isn't that I feel I must act a
[55:32] certain way because I was once an
[55:34] official, but rather that I know I
[55:36] should act this way. In China, the
[55:42] government acts as the head of the
[55:44] family providing basic public services,
[55:47] and we truly rely on it. I’ve seen
[55:55] some charitable initiatives led by
[55:57] influential, energetic, and visionary
[56:00] idealists who started off well, so why
[56:02] did they eventually go downhill?
[56:07] Actually, there is a very important
[56:10] factor here—it might be intentional
[56:12] in some cases, though I’d say it is
[56:14] likely unintentional for the majority.
[56:20] When they approach those vulnerable
[56:22] groups to offer help, they sometimes,
[56:25] to highlight their own presence,
[56:27] intentionally or unintentionally frame
[56:29] the suffering of the poor and weak as a
[56:32] failure of the government. They say to
[56:36] them, "You are suffering so much, look,
[56:38] the government doesn't care about you."
[56:40] They don't just say the government
[56:42] isn't helping; they say, "No one cares
[56:43] about you, I will." In doing so, they
[56:45] are effectively casting aspersions on
[56:48] the government. This is not right. Even
[56:51] if most are unintentional, being
[56:53] unintentional doesn't make it correct,
[56:56] does it? Take any major social issue,
[56:59] like the "orphan" crisis; such
[57:01] deep-seated problems are never the
[57:04] result of just one day. The government
[57:07] gives its all, but relying solely on
[57:10] the government isn't enough. This is
[57:12] why private efforts are so precious;
[57:15] they serve as a valuable supplement to
[57:18] our social governance system and
[57:20] capacity. When you get involved, your
[57:22] role is to help, not to create chaos.
[57:25] You must be a constructive partner.
[57:28] Regarding this, one might ask: "Is it
[57:30] just because you were a government
[57:32] official that you know how to do this?"
[57:35] It is not just that; it is truly more
[57:37] than that. I have seen through to a
[57:40] deeper layer. At the foundational level
[57:42] of logic, I understand the nature of
[57:44] the work I am doing. From the moment I
[57:46] first dedicated myself to charity, I
[57:49] planned before acting. I thought it
[57:51] through clearly and analyzed the
[57:53] underlying logic of the cause I was
[57:55] entering. Only then did I set out.
[58:01] >> If you have been doing charity work for
[58:03] a while, have built a very solid
[58:05] foundation, and have met your
[58:07] expectations, as you move forward into
[58:09] the second half of your life, what then
[58:11] ? Would you ever return to the
[58:13] government?
[58:13] >> Do you think the government is like a
[58:15] vegetable market? You don't just go
[58:17] back whenever you want; you aren't just
[58:18] "you, you, you." That's a cute question
[58:20] to ask, because you have indeed spent a
[58:22] lot of time abroad. This—this is just
[58:25] a joke, really, yes. This, this isn't a
[58:30] question that one can decide on their
[58:32] own. But what I can decide for myself
[58:35] is, if my charity work is truly going
[58:38] very well, then why should I go back?
[58:40] Wouldn't I be serving the people just
[58:43] the same? I am serving the people
[58:45] highly efficiently by integrating and
[58:47] complementing the government's efforts;
[58:50] from that identity and perspective, how
[58:52] precious is that? So, the government
[58:55] doesn't lack a good official like Chen
[58:57] Xinjia. But perhaps charity does lack
[58:59] someone like Chen Xinjia, someone who
[59:01] currently still has the courage to be
[59:03] very innovative. Someone moving forward
[59:05] with a spirit that doesn't fear failure
[59:07] .
[59:07] >> Since we're talking about how everyone
[59:09] has desires, what are your desires?
[59:11] >> Oh, that is a sharp question. Yes, let
[59:14] me think; you're right, I certainly
[59:17] must have desires. I can't—it's
[59:20] impossible for me not to have desires;
[59:23] wouldn't not having any desires mean
[59:25] being dead? But until I can think of a
[59:29] better answer, I am still willing to
[59:31] tell you this. It really follows
[59:35] Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I have
[59:37] that fifth-level need, which is the
[59:40] need for self-actualization.
[59:42] >> That need at the very top. Meaning, why
[59:45] did I come to this world for a visit?
[59:49] >> Did this need emerge only after you
[59:51] satisfied all the lower-level needs, or
[59:54] did you have it from very early on?
[59:57] >> It’s actually like this: it might
[59:59] have been there early on, but if I said
[60:01] it was very early, I think that
[60:03] wouldn't be realistic. I was actually
[60:05] walking along my life's journey, and
[60:08] slowly I discovered that I am so
[60:11] ordinary, yet so lucky. How should I
[60:15] understand that?
[60:16] >> It's that my life started from such a
[60:18] low point, and the gifts I've received
[60:20] in life have been more than I ever
[60:22] wanted. Look, for example, I grew up in
[60:25] the mountains; could I have imagined I
[60:27] would go to college? Right? I went to
[60:30] college, and could I have imagined that
[60:32] I would like a city girl and actually
[60:35] end up falling in love and marrying her
[60:37] ? After we had our child, to be honest,
[60:40] I just thought, oh, as long as the
[60:41] child is healthy and well, that’s
[60:43] enough. I never expected—my goodness
[60:46] —and I won't be humble here, my child
[60:48] is truly exceptional. I really, as a
[60:50] father, I hope everyone can understand
[60:53] a father's......
[60:54] >> a sense of pride. Yes, that's exactly
[60:57] it. So, I never imagined that in my own
[61:00] life, while I certainly had many pains
[61:02] and imperfections, like losing my
[61:04] mother too early, there are so many
[61:06] others in this world who also have no
[61:08] mother. Right? Among the children we
[61:11] serve in our "Chuanxin" program, 90%
[61:13] have lost their fathers, and 10%have
[61:15] lost their mothers. Right, so I then
[61:17] become their father and mother.
[61:19] >> But there might be many, many people
[61:21] with experiences similar to yours. But
[61:23] the things they eventually carry on
[61:25] their shoulders might be quite
[61:27] different. I think there are actually
[61:31] quite a few such people. As we go along
[61:38] , I feel I should take the good fortune
[61:41] of my individual life and use it to
[61:43] empower those who were once like me.
[61:49] >> And now you have become the light that
[61:51] shines upon them.
[61:52] >> Yes, that’s exactly what I mean.
[61:55] That’s how it is. So I say, if you
[61:59] ask about desires, in this state of
[62:01] being, I think the good fortune of my
[62:04] past life—as I slowly reached a
[62:07] certain stage—has actually already
[62:09] been realized.
[62:11] >> I saw a sentence in your book, in the
[62:13] afterword of "Xia Jiang," that says: "
[62:15] Firmly believe that empathizing with
[62:17] the cries of the vulnerable is one of
[62:18] the meanings of being alive." Yes.
[62:21] >> Is that what you are saying?
[62:23] >> Yes, yes, exactly. Yes, it’s this
[62:26] very sentence, this kind of calling.
[62:28] >> The words you use make me wonder if you
[62:31] have a kind of belief, one that isn't
[62:34] necessarily a specific......
[62:37] >> ism or anything else, but rather your
[62:40] ultimate outlook on life or your values
[62:43] .
[62:43] >> Something that transcends the mundane.
[62:46] >> Right, is there a word or a phrase you
[62:49] would use to describe it? Ah, if I had
[62:59] to use one word to describe my ultimate
[63:02] state of life—that is, if there is a
[63:05] destination that shines at the end of
[63:07] my life—it would be "ease and joy,"
[63:18] just pure joy.
[63:21] >> Is this influenced by your mother?
[63:23] >> Yes, it is my mother's influence. I
[63:26] truly feel it is my mother's influence.
[63:28] So, you know...The reconciliation I
[63:30] reached with my mother, with my
[63:32] memories, is that I accept it. I accept
[63:35] that my mother is no longer here. I
[63:37] accept it. I finally reached the most
[63:40] important reconciliation with this
[63:42] secret. It is the one thing I came to
[63:44] realize. I am a piece of her, flesh and
[63:48] blood. She raised me, so if I live my
[63:50] life just like her, doesn't that mean
[63:53] she's still alive?
[63:55] >> I must be very honest with you, your
[63:57] words have healed me. Because I also
[64:00] lost my mother, and these words healed
[64:02] me instantly, yeah.
