Horowitz, Nas Back Hip-Hop Pioneers With Cash Grants and Healthcare

Horowitz与Nas为嘻哈先驱提供资金资助与医疗保障 主流唱片公司与商业品牌从嘻哈音乐中榨取数十亿美元，却未给早期奠基人提供养老金或版税，迫使私人支持者建立属于自己的行业安全网。 科技创业家Ben Horowitz联手音乐高管Steve Stoute及说唱偶像Nas，详细介绍了Paid in Full基金会的成立初衷。该基金会旨在纠正历史不公，为早期嘻哈先驱提供体面的经济与医疗安全网。Grandmaster Caz谈到，在经历数十年未获补偿的文化影响力输出后，基金会提供的五年期资助与切实关怀彻底改变了他的生计，使他摆脱了无休止的生存压力，迎来了长久稳定。该团队还探讨了从Adidas、Sprite到Tommy Hilfiger等企业巨头如何利用嘻哈创新创造数十亿美元收益，却未向先驱们提供任何股权或养老金。通过审慎的治理模式、摒弃虚荣的颁奖典礼以及2.5比1的配比捐赠，该基金会既是一个由艺术家主导的家庭式安全网，也是一场年度跨代聚会。 Paid in Full基金会由Ben Horowitz、Steve Stoute和Nas共同创立，旨在为嘻哈音乐的奠基人提供正式认可，以及持续五年的资金资助和医疗保险。 (0:00) 该机构旨在解决长达数十年的行业剥削问题；此前，像Grandmaster Caz这样的先驱其歌词被《Rapper's Delight》等热门歌曲借用，却未获得任何版税或体制性安全保障。 (5:00) 除音乐本身外，早期嘻哈还为各大商业品牌带来了巨大的企业价值——包括通过Run-DMC让Adidas重焕生机，以及通过Grand Puba促成Sprite的“服从你的渴望”（Obey Your Thirst）口号——却未对这些创新者给予相应补偿。 (42:47) Ben与Felicia Horowitz夫妇对基金会获得的外部捐款按2.5比1的比例进行配比追加，所筹资金100%直接提供给受资助者。 (55:20)

Ben Horowitz, Steve Stoute, and Nas established the Paid in Full Foundation to rectify hip-hop's historical lack of a safety net, pairing direct financial backing and healthcare advocacy with public cultural honors for the genre's earliest innovators. Replacing Charity with Cultural Dignity (0:00) The foundation originated after Ben Horowitz calculated that he had extracted over $100 million in career value from hip-hop records like Eric B. & Rakim's *Paid in Full*, purchased for just ten dollars. In conversations with Steve Stoute and Nas, Horowitz initially floated a grant model inspired by Quincy Jones's Jazz Foundation. Nas pushed back against pure cash charity, explaining that unadorned handouts feel patronizing in hip-hop culture. To respect the dignity of the pioneers, the founders established the Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards, uniting public reverence with substantial financial grants disbursed over a five-year period. The initiative also had to overcome deep-seated skepticism across the hip-hop community. Because the music business has a long history of abandonment and exploitative arrangements, early outreach was frequently met with suspicion. Multiple prospective honorees initially declined contact under the belief that promises of no-strings-attached financial support were a scam. The organization validated its credibility through Nas's presence on the board, volunteer execution without paid staff, and the induction of inaugural honorees Rakim and Scarface. The Disparity Between Cultural Impact and Compensation (20:00) Early architects altered global language, fashion, and commercial advertising without receiving equitable financial rewards or institutional security like pensions and healthcare. Grandmaster Caz pointed out that while his uncredited lyrics were lifted to create the Sugarhill Gang's 'Rapper's Delight'—the genre's first commercial hit—the industry offered no royalties or compensation. Similarly, Stoute and Horowitz noted that Run-DMC revitalized Adidas when the company held only a 2% domestic market share, Sprite adopted Grand Puba's lyric 'First things first, obey your thirst' as its global slogan, and Tommy Hilfiger built a streetwear empire after observing style trends in Harlem. Despite generating massive corporate fortunes, foundational artists were left to hustle continuously to survive. Grandmaster Caz noted that prior to his foundation grant, which enabled him to buy a house in Pennsylvania, he spent a decade fearing he would die in the Bronx projects. The founders contend that major labels and corporations profited off these innovators and largely abdicated their duty to support them, relying instead on artists to survive through endless park jams, tours, and independent hustle. Direct Intervention, Healthcare, and Peer Governance (46:18) The foundation's model emphasizes personal advocacy beyond ceremonial tributes, exemplified by critical medical interventions. When Scarface required an urgent kidney transplant, the foundation intervened to cover his expenses and secure a surgical team. Later, when Scarface resisted treatment for a life-threatening heart condition, foundation president Felicia Horowitz flew directly to Houston and escorted him to the hospital, where his aorta ruptured just as he arrived, allowing surgeons to save his life. To keep the institution artist-governed and enduring, honorees are integrated directly into the voting committee. Icons such as Roxanne Shanté and Grandmaster Caz evaluate and vote on subsequent recipient classes alongside the founders. Committee votes require spontaneous unanimity, ensuring that recipients are selected based on artistic impact and integrity rather than commercial industry metrics. Bridging Generational and Cultural Divides (31:05) The music industry traditionally isolated artists across distinct, hyper-compressed eras that shift every three to four years, often discarding veterans as 'old school.' The foundation's gatherings function as cross-generational reunions where historic peers reconnect. Nas and Stoute observed figures like Dr. Dre using the event to seek introductions to foundational inspirations such as Kool Moe Dee and Slick Rick, while Scarface and Rakim engaged in rare, direct dialogues dissecting their craft as writers. The foundation also established the Quincy Jones Award, created in partnership with Quincy Jones III (QD3) after mainstream institutions like the Grammys mishandled tributes to legendary creators. Awarded to hitmaker and Chic co-founder Nile Rodgers, the honor reflects the founders' commitment to historical accuracy and artistic excellence. The events intentionally unite Silicon Valley executives, philanthropists, and artists without industry pretense, educating non-traditional audiences about hip-hop's foundational history. The Paid in Full Foundation relies on an operational model with no paid staff, where public contributions made via paidinfullfoundation.org are matched 2.5-to-1 by Ben and Felicia Horowitz so that 100% of donor funds reach honored artists. While the founders emphasize that their platform cannot solve every systemic inequity across the music business alone, they argue it establishes a working framework for corporations, labels, and successful creators to support the architects of the culture.

Ben Horowitz、Steve Stoute、Nas 与 Grandmaster Caz 共同阐述了设立 Paid in Full Foundation 的初衷：嘻哈先驱塑造了全球语言、时尚与巨额商业价值，却长期缺乏行业养老与医疗保障；该机构旨在通过实质经济支持与文化荣誉，为早期奠基人提供体面与应有的回报。 从施舍转向尊严：基金会的创立初衷 (0:00) Ben Horowitz 指出，自己在科技领域的成功中，至少汲取了来自 Eric B. & Rakim 经典专辑《Paid in Full》价值 1 亿美元的精神与策略养分，而当年购买唱片仅花费 10 美元。嘻哈行业长期存在碎片化竞争与无保障机制，缺乏社会保障或养老金系统，导致许多年长先驱在年迈或生病时仍不得不为生计奔波，甚至被舆论贬低。尽管曾考虑过 Quincy Jones 设立的爵士基金会模式，但 Nas 明确反对单纯的慈善捐赠，强调嘻哈文化的核心在于尊严与敬意，绝不能办成施舍式的经济救济。 为此，Horowitz 与 Stoute、Nas 联合创立了 Paid in Full Foundation 及其主办的 Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards，确立了在经济、精神与文化三方面向先驱全额偿付（paid in full）的目标。首批致敬的两位标杆为 Rakim 与 Scarface。基金会还设立了自我造血式的治理循环，被表彰者如 Grandmaster Caz 和 Roxanne Shanté 在获奖后直接加入评审委员会，负责后续候选人的提名与投票，确保评审由艺术家完全自主主导。 商业掠夺与行业断层：先驱者的现实困境 (5:00) 对话直指主流音乐产业对早期创作者的系统性剥削与忽视。最为典型的案例是 Grandmaster Caz：作为嘻哈历史上首支商业大热单曲《Rapper's Delight》的核心歌词创作者，其韵脚甚至包括其名字均被 The Sugarhill Gang 直接使用，但 Caz 在数十年来未获得任何版税与创作者署名。主流厂牌对此长期熟视无睹，从未主动纠错。此外，早期的商业尝试如 VH1 的电视致敬往往流于表面符号化，并未给创作者带来任何实质资金支持。 由于行业内长期充斥着欺诈与盘剥，基金会在早期接触先驱时遭遇了极高的信任门槛。Stoute 和 Nas 回忆，包括 Kool Rock-Ski 和 Scarface 在内的多位受邀者起初甚至误以为这是骗局或推销商品，部分人因疑虑直接拒绝联络。直到首届颁奖典礼确立了高端体面的基调，社区才逐渐确信这是毫无附加条件的真诚回馈。Grandmaster Caz 直言，在获得该基金会分 5 年发放的长期资助前，他几乎一生都住在布朗克斯的公租房中，过去 10 至 15 年始终活在可能死在公租房的恐惧中；该资助终于让他和妻子在宾夕法尼亚州购入住房，摆脱了日复一日被迫奔波的生存危机。 无偿输出的百亿文化：商业品牌的搭便车 (42:47) Steve Stoute 与 Horowitz 剖析了美国主流商业巨头如何无偿收割嘻哈文化的红利。在 Run-DMC 出现前，Adidas 在美国本土市场份额仅剩 2%，且七成以上集中于美东城市走廊；正是由于黑人社区年轻人的追捧和演唱会上万众举鞋的现象，该品牌才得以起死回生。类似地，Tommy Hilfiger 早年在模仿 Ralph Lauren 卖领带陷入困境，正是通过观察哈莱姆区街头青年露出的内裤边，推出了宽边品牌内裤，借由街头服饰浪潮拯救了企业。 在广告营销领域，可口可乐旗下 Sprite 长期使用的全球知名标语“Obey Your Thirst”，实际上直接源自 Grand Puba 的说唱词“First things first, obey your thirst”。Stoute 强调，这些依靠嘻哈街头文化发展成百亿美元规模的企业与时尚品牌，理应承担社会责任，向 Paid in Full Foundation 提供捐助，回馈这些为其品牌注入灵魂但未曾持有股权的创作者。 超越奖项的行动力：个体关怀与跨代弥合 (31:05) 基金会不仅提供资金，更深入到先驱的个人健康与生活危机中。在 Scarface 突发危及生命的心脏病且因文化背景恐惧就医时，基金会主席、Ben Horowitz 的妻子 Felicia Horowitz 亲自飞往休斯敦，强行陪同其前往医院。就在抵达医疗设施时，Scarface 的主动脉破裂，急诊手术将其从生死边缘救回；此前，基金会亦介入承担了其肾移植手术的高额医疗开支。Caz 指出，Felicia 在典礼后依然持续关心受助者家庭生活，体现了真正的家庭式温情，而非冷冰冰的企业公关。 与此同时，该平台促成了历史上极其罕见的代际聚合与艺术交流。在活动现场，商业上极为成功的 Dr. Dre 主动请求结识 Slick Rick 和 Kool Moe Dee；Scarface 与 Rakim 两位传奇作词人展开了彼此职业生涯中首次面对面的深入对谈；83 岁的放克先驱 George Clinton 登台一字不差地背诵 Rakim 的复杂韵脚。因不满格莱美对音乐教父 Quincy Jones 的粗劣致敬，基金会还与 Quincy 之子 QD3 合作设立了年度 Quincy Jones 奖，最新一届授予了对早期嘻哈采样及全球流行乐有奠基贡献的 Nile Rodgers。 Paid in Full Foundation 当前完全依靠志愿者运转，不设立带薪岗位。Ben Horowitz 与妻子 Felicia 为通过 paidinfullfoundation.org 筹集的每一笔外部捐款提供 2.5 倍的资金配比（match），以确保所有款项 100% 直达先驱艺术家手中。发起团队呼吁主流商业机构与公众积极参与，让这种私人发起的关怀逐步制度化，彻底扭转嘻哈文化忽视奠基者的行业宿疾。

## Background 本期节目由 Ben Horowitz、Erik Torenberg、Nas、Steve Stoute 与 Grandmaster Caz 共同呈现，于 2026 年 9 月 20 日通过播客平台发布。节目主要围绕 Paid in Full 基金会的成立背景展开，深入探讨了其表彰与资助嘻哈开拓者的核心使命，以及 Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards 如何将实质经济支持与应有的崇高荣誉相结合。 ## TL;DR 节目详述了 Ben Horowitz 与音乐产业领袖 Nas、Steve Stoute 联手创办 Paid in Full 基金会的始末。针对嘻哈先驱创造了巨大的全球文化与商业价值、现实中却缺乏医疗与养老保障且饱受剥削的困境，基金会通过设立 Grandmaster Awards 盛典，为老一辈开拓者提供体面的大额资金与五年期资助。作为获奖者兼委员会成员的 Grandmaster Caz 现身说法，讲述了资助如何让他免于贫困晚年，同时披露了包括挽救 Scarface 生命在内的幕后动人细节。对谈深刻剖析了嘻哈对 Adidas、雪碧等商业帝国的塑造力，呼吁全行业打破冷漠与割裂，用实质行动回馈文化的奠基人。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场对谈兼具厚重的历史沉淀感与真挚的情感浓度，彻底褪去了名利场的光环与防备。嘉宾们的交流极其松弛却又句句掷地有声，既有嘻哈老炮儿围炉夜话般的惺惺相惜，也有直面行业残酷现实时的犀利与叹息。从早期先驱怀疑善意是“诈骗”的荒唐心酸，到生死救援与安居晚年的动容自白，整段对话洋溢着纯粹的敬意与爱，让人深切体会到迟来正义得以伸张时的尊严与力量。 ## Bulletin - `00:00` Ben Horowitz 联合 Nas 及 Steve Stoute 成立 Paid in Full 基金会，设立 Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards，旨在为缺乏养老及医疗保障的嘻哈开拓者提供体面的历史荣誉与经济资助。 - `35:00` 基金会采取零雇员成本的运作模式，所有外部捐款均由 Ben 与 Felicia Horowitz 夫妇提供 2.5:1 的资金配捐，确保款项全额直接发放给受助艺术家。 - `37:32` Grandmaster Caz 证实基金会提供的 5 年期资助彻底改变其晚年境遇，让他得以在宾夕法尼亚州购房并摆脱终老于廉租房的困境。 - `43:08` 嘻哈文化催生了庞大的全球消费产业，包括逆转 Adidas 在美困境、启发雪碧“服从你的渴望”广告语及 Tommy Hilfiger 的标志性内裤设计，但早期元老却长期未能分享相应的商业红利。 ## Key takeaways - `00:00` Paid in Full 基金会的初衷源于商业利益与文化贡献的严重脱节，嘻哈音乐深刻影响了全球语言、时尚和商业，但奠定该文化的先驱却晚景凄凉。 - `00:00` Nas 提出关键文化洞见：嘻哈先驱极其看重尊严，单纯塞钱会被视为施舍甚至羞辱，援助必须与最高规格的历史名誉绑定。 - `05:00` 长期遭受行业剥削导致老一代音乐人形成极强的戒备心理，初期多位先驱甚至将巨额资助联系误判为金融诈骗。 - `05:00` Grandmaster Caz 作为嘻哈首支大热金曲《Rapper's Delight》的核心词作者，长期被剥夺署名权与商业版税，成为行业漠视先驱的典型案例。 - `10:00` 奖项机制形成了先驱评选先驱的良性传承，Grandmaster Caz 与 Roxanne Shanté 等获奖者均已进入后续评选委员会。 - `15:00` 盛典打破了商业机制人为制造的代际与阶层隔阂，促成了 Dr. Dre 首次结识童年偶像 Kool Moe Dee 及 Slick Rick 等历史性会面。 - `15:00` 传统行业往往流于表面致敬（如电视致敬秀），而未将真金白银放进缺乏社会保障与医疗福利的先驱口袋中。 - `25:00` Ben Horowitz 的行动哲学主张“从什么是正确的出发，而非从现实可能性出发”，其《创业维艰》等商业管理智慧深受说唱歌词的启迪。 - `27:00` Grand Puba 连续跨越 Masters of Ceremony、Brand Nubian 及独唱三大世代，展现了在极其严苛的说唱演进史中罕见的艺术生命力。 - `30:00` 因格莱美对 Quincy Jones 的致敬环节存在严重失误，基金会特设“昆西·琼斯奖”，并将新一届奖项授予传奇制作人 Nile Rodgers。 - `35:00` Rakim 与 Scarface 在现场就说唱文字技艺展开史诗级深度交流，展现了顶尖创作者之间放下自负的纯粹敬意。 - `40:00` 嘻哈行业不存在制度化的社会保障网络，即使是元老先驱也必须长期依靠广播主持、带团巡游等方式在街头奔波糊口。 - `46:08` 基金会的关怀超越了财务资助，基金会总裁 Felicia Horowitz 曾亲赴休斯敦强行送医，及时化解了 Scarface 心脏主动脉破裂的生死危机。 - `50:00` Ben Horowitz 与 Nas 因对音乐细节的极致鉴赏与拆解结为挚友，Nas 卓越的艺术感知力更与其家族深厚的爵士乐传承紧密相连。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### `00:00` 缘起与使命：Paid in Full 基金会的诞生 在节目的开篇，嘉宾们阐述了成立 Paid in Full 基金会的核心动力：在嘻哈文化（Hip-Hop）深刻改变全球音乐、时尚、语言与商业格局的同时，那些亲手奠定这一艺术形态的元老先驱们，却往往既没有得到应有的名誉认可，也没有获得相匹配的经济回报。正如 Grandmaster Caz 所言：“嘻哈可没有社会保障（Hip-hop don't have social security. You have to work）”，先驱们至今仍必须在第一线拼搏。本期节目由 Ben Horowitz 与 Erik Torenberg 主持，邀请到传奇说唱歌手 Nas、嘻哈开创者 Grandmaster Caz 以及音乐产业泰斗 Steve Stoute，首次公开详述基金会的创立背景与运作理念。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Paid in Full 基金会创立历程 accDescr: 展示 Ben Horowitz 发起概念、Steve Stoute 与 Nas 完善方案并最终落地 Grandmaster Awards 的全流程。 subgraph Ideation ["灵感萌芽"] A["Ben Horowitz 购买《Paid in Full》专辑<br/>收获数千万美元人生价值，渴望反哺"] B["致电 Steve Stoute<br/>直面先驱被嘲讽'落魄'却无人作为的行业痛点"] end subgraph Concept ["模式重塑"] C["致电 Nas<br/>借鉴 Quincy Jones 爵士基金会模式"] D["Nas 洞察：说唱文化重尊严<br/>不能仅给钱，必须将经济援助与崇高荣誉绑定"] end subgraph Execution ["落地执行"] E["设立 Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards<br/>首届表彰 Scarface 与 Rakim"] end A --> B B --> C C --> D D --> E ``` Ben Horowitz 回忆了自己发起这个构想的初衷：他早年花区区几美元购买了 Eric B. & Rakim 的划时代专辑《Paid in Full》，而在自己之后的整个科技与投资生涯中，这张唱片为他提供了至少价值数千万美元的精神力量与底层价值，但他却没有任何途径把这笔回报反馈给创作者。Ben 指出，创造嘻哈这门艺术的元老总共就那么多人，人数并不庞大，整个行业早就应该把他们聚集起来予以表彰。当他致电多年好友 Steve Stoute 时，Steve 明确表示这极具现实紧迫性——播客和网络上充斥着对老一辈说唱歌手贫困、落魄的嘲弄，却没有任何人真正站出来采取行动。 随后 Ben 致电 Nas。起初，Ben 设想借鉴他们共同的好友 Quincy Jones 资助老一代爵士音乐人的“爵士基金会（Jazz Foundation）”模式，直接向陷入困境的先驱发放资金。但 Nas 提出了决定性的洞见：嘻哈有着极其独特的街头文化与自尊体系，单纯塞钱行不通，它必须是一场对他们历史地位与伟大成就的正式加冕。Nas 强调：“不能只给某人钱，必须超越单纯的给钱，必须是对他们所做的一切以及他们是谁的认可（In hip hop you can’t just give somebody money. It has to be more than that. It has to be a recognition of what they did and who they are）。”这催生了“嘻哈宗师奖（Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards）”的构想——通过极具规格的盛大颁奖典礼，召集全行业见证先驱荣光，并将资金支持作为荣誉的一部分体面送出。首届获奖者便锁定了两位传奇：Scarface 与 Rakim。 --- ### `05:00` 信任危机、破除偏见与为先驱正名 Steve Stoute 补充了第一届颁奖典礼前一个极具戏剧性却令人心酸的插曲。当时 Scarface 正面临严重的肾衰竭危机，急需接受其儿子的肾脏移植手术，但昂贵的医疗费用和顶级专家的短缺让他陷入绝境。Steve 在法国南部度假时突然给两年未联系的 Scarface 打去电话，告诉他基金会准备在经济上全力兜底其医疗开销。面对这通突如其来的越洋电话，Scarface 整个人陷入了震惊与难以置信。Steve 随后向 Ben 感慨，嘻哈圈长期以来的残酷现实让大家习惯了人人自危的防备心理：“在早期，人们处于极度怀疑之中，他们甚至不相信这是真的；我们在帮助别人时遇到了很大困难，因为他们根本不信（In fact, early on, people were in such disbelief, they didn't believe that. It was real. We had a hard time. We had a hard time actually helping people because they didn't believe it）。” 这种长期的被剥削感与孤立无援，导致先驱们在初期极为警惕，甚至有人因为怀疑是诈骗而错失了奖项。但这也反过来验证了 Nas 的洞见：这绝不能被办成一种居高临下的“施舍”或“历史赔偿（reparations）”，而必须是一场捍卫尊严的盛典。随着拥有 Nas 等行业领袖的董事会背书，首届典礼在如同初创公司般“用大力胶布硬拼（duct tape）”的艰苦筹备下拉开帷幕。当 Scarface 和 Rakim 登上领奖台，消息迅速在整个嘻哈社群中传开，原先弥漫在同行间的防备和猜忌终于被彻底击碎，先驱们开始意识到这是一场真真切切的尊重与守护。 在谈到 Grandmaster Caz 时，现场氛围转入肃穆与敬重。作为嘻哈最早期的缔造者之一，Caz 创作的唱词直接被挪用并造就了嘻哈历史上第一首真正意义上的商业大金曲——Sugarhill Gang 的《Rapper's Delight》，词里甚至还保留着 Caz 自己的名字，然而 Caz 却被夺走了署名与应得的版税财富。全行业对此心知肚明，但在几十年的时间里没有任何人为此站出来发声。Ben 与 Steve 盛赞 Caz 历经如此不公却依然没有心怀怨恨，步入任何场合依然散发着无可替代的巨星气场。关于打破行业麻木、重塑先驱尊严的行动，Ben 总结道：“历史大抵如此，人们总觉得事情的发展是不可避免的，但事实并非如此，必须得有人挺身而出做点什么（People act like things are inevitable, but they’re not. Somebody’s got to do something）。” - **Scarface 的紧急医疗救助**：在首届奖项筹备期间，基金会及时介入为 Scarface 的肾脏移植手术提供经济与医疗资源保障。 - **初期的反诈疑虑**：多位早期元老因为长年遭受音乐产业剥削，起初将基金会的巨额善意联络误判为金融骗局。 - **Grandmaster Caz 的历史公案**：嘻哈史上首支爆款单曲《Rapper's Delight》中的核心歌词原作者正是 Grandmaster Caz，但他在名誉和商业上均被长期边缘化。 ### `10:00` 全票通过的选择与拒绝苦涩的先驱者 基金会挑选获奖者的过程充满共鸣。当某个名字被提出来时，全场常常全票赞同，大家甚至会争相辩论谁赞成的理由更充分，为终于精准选对了人而欣喜若狂。真正感人的是这些先驱者走进房间的那一刻——他们身上完全没有“怎么到现在才想起我”的怨念，而是带着明朗灿烂的微笑。 Nas 特别提到了 Roxanne Shanté 的故事。当 Shanté 获得该奖项时，她的孩子曾问她，看到其他女性说唱歌手拿走所有主流奖项时是否会感到苦涩不平，她的回答极为干脆：“不，我并不想要那些奖，我想要的是真正对的奖。” 让获奖者加入后续评选委员会，构成了这项基金会生生不息的良性循环。Nas 谈到 Shanté 对自己的深远意义：他们来自同一个街区，当她在 1984、1985 年左右凭借《Roxanne's Revenge》一鸣惊人时还只是个孩子。在那个女性在嘻哈圈几乎毫无立足之地的年代，她敢在电台上面对全盛时期的男性团体展开正面反击，宛如一位无畏的女权行动者，彻底改变了整个文化的发展轨迹。如今能与她一同参与基金会的运作，对 Nas 而言依旧感到不可思议。 - 选拔过程呈现出高度一致的共识与兴奋感，候选人到场时带着极大的善意与光彩。 - Roxanne Shanté 的孩子曾问她：“Mom, you see all these rappers, these female rappers getting all these awards. Don't you ever feel bitter about that or you don't feel anything about that?” - Shanté 的坚定回应让全场动容：“No. I didn't want that award, I wanted the right award.” - Grandmaster Caz 等获奖者已正式加入评选委员会，参与投票决定未来的受奖先驱。 ### `12:30` 跨越世代的构想：从杂志畅想到硅谷会面 Grandmaster Caz 回忆起最初被引荐的情景：某天他接到了多年未联系的老友 Quincy Jones III（QD3）含糊其辞的电话，邀请他去曼哈顿下城一趟。到达现场后，他才见到 Ben Horowitz 等人。Caz 意识到自己正在接受某种深层考察，团队想要了解他的心态与精神面貌，因为此前确实有人因遭遇不公而心生怨怼，而 Caz 展现的只有纯粹的文化精神。 Nas 在此打断并回忆道，早在 1990 年代末或 2000 年左右接受杂志采访时，当被问及若有能力会为嘻哈做些什么，他当时描绘的蓝图与现在的 Paid in Full 基金会一模一样，直到最近有人提醒他才重拾这段记忆。Swizz Beatz 等音乐人此前也曾公开呼吁应该给老一辈先驱每人一百万美元。这表明给先驱者应有回报的想法早已深植在多位核心人物心中。 Nas 进一步谈到他对 Ben Horowitz 的敬佩。Nas 经常与 Steve Stoute 争论嘻哈到互不理睬，也常与 Ben Horowitz 深入拆解某张专辑，但当看到来自湾区（Bay Area）的白人科技投资人 Ben 竟然如此深入探究 Sugar Hill Gang 以及嘻哈起源的历史细节时，他深受震撼。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 先驱奖项构想的发展脉络 accDescr: 从早期艺术家的公共倡议与杂志构想，到 QD3 联络 Caz 并在下城与 Ben 团队会面，最终促成 Paid in Full 基金会。 subgraph Ideation["早期萌芽与共识"] A["Nas 在 1990/2000 年代<br>杂志采访中描绘设想"] B["Swizz Beatz 等艺术家<br>公开呼吁回馈百万美元"] end subgraph Connection["接线与考察"] C["Quincy Jones III (QD3)<br>致电 Grandmaster Caz"] D["曼哈顿下城会面：<br>考察 Caz 的心态与精神"] end subgraph Execution["基金会成型"] E["Ben Horowitz 与团队<br>倾注对嘻哈起源历史的热爱"] F["Paid in Full 基金会<br>建立先驱奖项机制"] end A --> E B --> E C --> D D --> E E --> F ``` Nas 在谈及对文化根源的探寻时感慨道：“Bid from the Bay about the origin story of some of the greatest hip hop history ever, but I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was just like the care that we have for the culture and, is the same.” ### `15:00` 破除行业藩篱：巨星之间的世纪会面与实质回报 盛典现场的气氛宛如一场盛大的校友聚会（Class Reunion），打破了嘻哈圈长久以来的代际与阶层隔阂。最令人难忘的一幕发生在上一届活动中：如日中天、坐拥极高地位的 Dr. Dre 亲自来到现场，竟然请求 Nas 帮忙引荐 Kool Moe Dee，随后又在拉斯维加斯拜托他们引荐 Slick Rick，因为这位西海岸传奇巨头在过去几十年间从未有机会与他们面对面结识。 Grandmaster Caz 直言，音乐产业往往利用商业成功、热度、签约状态等标签将艺术家们人为拆散，导致他与 Nas 过去只能偶尔偶遇，如今这个盛会让他们每年都能固定碰面、建立起随时能通电话的紧密纽带。 Steve Stoute 指出，不论是商业体系刻意为之，还是老派（Old School）与新派（New School）的代际割裂，真正的艺术家对自己墙上贴过海报、买过第一张磁带或 CD 的童年英雄永远保持着如同对待体育传奇一般的崇敬。过去虽然有 VH1 的《Hip Hop Honors》等电视致敬节目，但那些活动只是投射了镁光灯，从未把真正的资金放进先驱者的口袋里。Paid in Full 基金会与投资 UnitedMasters 的初衷完全一致，就是为了从根本上扭转文化贡献巨大却无法获得相应经济回报的不公现象。 - 音乐工业的冷漠机制长期以商业热度和阶层隔离艺术家，导致许多传奇彼此之间数十年未曾谋面。 - 盛典为 Dr. Dre 创造了历史性契机，使其得以首次结识 Kool Moe Dee 和 Slick Rick 等童年偶像。 - 传统奖项（如 VH1 Hip Hop Honors）往往流于表面光鲜，缺乏对艺术家的实质经济投资。 - Steve Stoute 犀利总结了过往致敬形式的局限：“And it's cool. It's putting a light on it, on these artists. But it's not putting anything in their pockets.” ### `20:00` 言行不一的文化困境与创作者的经济脱节 嘻哈音乐对全球文化产生了无可估量的影响，它重塑了全球的穿衣风尚、语言习惯乃至日常方言。然而，早期开创这一文化的先驱们在经济上却几乎一无所获，银行账户的微薄收益与其作出的巨大贡献形成了极度不平衡的反差。大众甚至逐渐麻木，将这种剥削视为理所当然的行业常态。这种付出与回报的严重脱离不仅打击了艺术创作的动力，更让先驱们产生被掠夺与被偷窃的苦涩感。 更具讽刺意味的是嘻哈音乐文本与现实行为之间的巨大鸿沟。歌词里充斥着打破壁垒、反抗体制、宣扬爱与企业家精神以及“保持真实”（keeping it real）的宣言；但在录音室之外，真实的行动却荡然无存。艺人在歌里唱得无比真诚，现实中相遇却冷眼相对，甚至在同行求助时报以嘲笑。极端的竞争意识压倒了团结，尽管 Grandmaster Caz 早已将开创性的艺术 DNA 注入这门文化中，并启发了后来的无数组合与巨星，但整个行业却未能践行歌词里的诺言。Nas 深刻地指出，嘻哈文化的核心应当是共同成长与变得更好： > “How are we going to be real when we say we're hip-hop, we're real, and then the actions are not happening? It's just going to be on record? It can't just be on record. The whole thing about hip hop is about to grow, to be better.” 理应由那些从中赚取暴利的唱片公司来扶持先驱，然而主流商业机构却从未担起责任。最终，是作为超级乐迷的 Ben Horowitz 与其妻子 Felicia 出资创立了 Paid in Full Foundation，用真金白银去匹配先驱们当年的付出，为那些应当被铭记的人夺回应有的尊重。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 嘻哈先驱经济价值脱节与基金会介入流程 accDescr: 展示嘻哈先驱创造巨大文化影响却遭遇经济剥削，并最终由基金会纠偏的过程 subgraph Culture["文化与商业割裂"] A["先驱创造文化资产<br/>（语言/时尚/艺术DNA）"] --> B["商业唱片公司获利"] A --> C["创作者回报匮乏<br/>（经济微薄/缺乏尊重）"] end subgraph Foundation["基金会纠偏机制"] D["Paid in Full Foundation<br/>（Ben & Felicia 出资）"] --> E["经济资助与表彰"] E --> F["Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards<br/>（重塑先驱历史地位）"] end C -.->|"唱片公司缺位"| D ``` --- ### `22:45` Grandmaster Awards 的演进与全球聚光灯 基金会设立的 Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards 迎来第四个年头，正成为一个具有转折意义的里程碑。谈及盛典的打磨过程，团队坦言第一年还在摸索前行，流程略显冗长，但通过不断吸取经验、提炼细节，整个制作水准已变得极其成熟与紧凑。 举办这一盛典的核心目标，是让全世界看清这些奠基人的面孔并向他们致敬——不仅要让全球乐迷认识 Grandmaster Caz，还要向 Roxanne Shanté、Melle Mel、The D.O.C. 等传奇人物送上掌声。这不仅是一笔资助，更是搭建一个顶级的行业平台，让年轻一代亲眼看到自己的英雄在获得体面与应有的荣誉。团队希望将这台高水准的晚会推向更广阔的全球舞台，使其成为嘻哈历史上不可磨灭的文化坐标。 - **制作成熟度**：历经四年摸索与迭代，活动节奏大幅优化，第四届成为规模最大、制作最精良的一届。 - **致敬名单**：现场不仅表彰 Grandmaster Caz，更覆盖了包括 Roxanne Shanté、Melle Mel 和 The D.O.C. 在内的多位嘻哈先驱。 --- ### `25:00` 做正确的事而非可能的事：Ben Horowitz 的回馈哲学 面对为何没有大型机构抢先设立此类基金会的疑问，Ben Horowitz 分享了支撑其创业与慈善决策的核心处事哲学。他强调，如果做一件大事只从“现实可能性”出发，往往会一事无成；唯有从“什么是正确的”出发，才有机会创造卓越： > “I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. And if you start with what's right, then you have it.” 在 Ben 看来，真正创造嘻哈这门艺术形态的先导者人数其实并不庞大，解决他们的生存与尊严问题完全在能力范围之内。更重要的是，Ben 直言自己并不是无私的施予者，而是先驱们精神财富的直接受益者。在硅谷创业经历极度灰暗和艰难的时刻，正是 Grandmaster Caz、Nas 和 Rakim 等人的歌词支撑着他度过难关。 这份灵感促成了他写出商业畅销书《创业维艰》（*The Hard Thing About Hard Things*）。尽管当时硅谷很多人质疑他在商业书籍里引用说唱歌词是搞营销噱头，但 Ben 坚持将说唱歌词放在每个章节的开头，因为他的许多商业智慧直接源于这些歌词。创办基金会就是为了兑现“功归其主”（credit where credit is due）的原则，为真正启迪过他的人提供回馈。面对外界的流言蜚语或质疑声，他一概充耳不闻，全心投入到搭建基金会的实际行动中。 --- ### `27:00` 破圈共鸣与 Grand Puba 跨越三个时代的传奇 颁奖典礼不仅吸引了核心嘻哈圈内人，更成为了跨界人群的精神转化场。许多原本对嘻哈毫无兴趣、纯粹为了给 Ben 捧场的商业人士来到现场后，被现场的真实故事所震撼，深刻理解了先驱被掠夺的过往并产生强烈共情。但整场晚会的基调并非单纯诉苦或清算历史不公，而是一场昂首挺胸的庆祝——庆祝这些迟到的认可终于到来，庆祝真正的英雄终于被置于镁光灯之下。 对话重点提到了上一届接受表彰的传奇人物 Grand Puba。在说唱历史中，一个“时代”（era）往往短至三到四年就会发生颠覆性的风格迭代，大多数艺人根本无法跨越这道鸿沟，极易被迅速贴上“过气”（washed）或老派的标签淘汰出局。而 Grand Puba 展现了惊人的艺术生命力，接连跨越了三大截然不同的时期： 1. **Masters of Ceremony 时代**：作为早期硬核说唱团体的核心崭露头角。 2. **Brand Nubian 时代**：引领具有高度社会意识与独特风格的黄金年代团体。 3. **个人独唱生涯（Solo Career）**：成功转型为极具个人魅力的独唱巨星。 看着 Grand Puba 登台接受全场掌声与行业殊荣，现场所有人无不肃然起敬。如果 Paid in Full Foundation 不去搭建这个舞台，主流音乐界绝不会有人主动站出来为这些跨时代的奠基人补办这场迟到的加冕仪式。 ### `30:00` 纯粹的爱、昆西·琼斯奖与奈尔·罗杰斯 嘉宾们深入探讨了“Paid in Full Foundation”与其他慈善或颁奖机构的根本区别。开出一张支票打钩交差固然简单，但基金会倾注了大量时间与心血，只为把事情做得真正到位。这种严谨的源头是爱——活动现场没有任何明星架子，亿万富翁与传奇音乐人同桌而坐，所有人都抛下自负，全神贯注地在台下学习并感受舞台上发生的历史。现场的情感浓度极高，比如去年 83 岁的放克巨匠乔治·克林顿（George Clinton）不仅登台带来标志性的“母舰”（Mothership）表演，还在台上动情背诵了拉金（Rakim）的歌词。 嘉宾们还透露了设立“昆西·琼斯奖”（Quincy Jones Award）的初衷。本·霍洛维茨与纳斯等人回顾道，昆西·琼斯是无可争议的殿堂级泰斗（triple OG），但格莱美奖（The Grammys）对他的致敬环节却办得极其糟糕。昆西的儿子 QD3（Quincy Delight Jones III）对此极为不满并表示必须纠正这种遗憾，于是基金会正式设立了这一年度奖项。史蒂夫·斯托特（Steve Stoute）随后公布了新一届昆西·琼斯奖的得主：传奇吉他手兼制作人奈尔·罗杰斯（Nile Rodgers）。罗杰斯不仅写出了无数被 Hip-Hop 疯狂采样的经典吉他连弦（riff），更操刀了从 Chic、Sister Sledge 到蠢朋克（Daft Punk）的《Get Lucky》等横跨数十年的伟大金曲。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 昆西·琼斯奖设立背景与传承 accDescr: 展示格莱美失误如何促成昆西·琼斯奖的诞生以及首届与新一届获奖情况 subgraph Origin["设立缘起"] A["格莱美致敬环节严重失误"] --> B["QD3 与基金会联手介入"] B --> C["设立年度 Quincy Jones Award"] end subgraph Honorees["历届与当期致敬"] C --> D["往期传奇：George Clinton 现场背诵 Rakim 歌词"] C --> E["本期获奖者：Nile Rodgers（采样源泉与金曲制作人）"] end ``` - 格莱美对昆西·琼斯的致敬失误直接促成了该奖项的诞生：“The idea for the Quincy Jones Award was literally because of how bad the Grammys did it.” - 奈尔·罗杰斯被选为新一届获奖者，以表彰他在 Hip-Hop 采样历史及跨时代流行音乐中的非凡贡献。 --- ### `33:04` 消除先驱者的戒心与打破行业虚伪 长久以来，许多老一代嘻哈音乐人饱受剥削与冷遇，以至于当基金会向他们伸出援手时，他们本能地怀疑这是场骗局。纳斯和斯托特回忆，大家一开始难免心存戒备，甚至私下怀疑基金会是不是在借机敛财、“在后备箱卖 T 恤”。例如当致电 The Fat Boys 组合的 Kool Rock-Ski 时，对方甚至不敢相信这是真的，直到走下领奖台依然觉得恍如梦境。 当纳斯亲自致电传奇 MC Kool G Rap 时，对方表现出极大的感动与感激。纳斯强调，Kool G Rap 是自己最重要的灵感源泉之一，基金会举办这一切完全是为了这些开拓者，没有私心，更不是为了自我炒作。当这些饱经沧桑的前辈来到现场，感受到不掺杂商业利益的纯粹敬意时，所有的防备与怀疑都融化在了真挚的爱与感动中。 > “I think it's surprising for them to feel like it's nothing like, like you said, we're not selling shirts out in the back.” —— Nas --- ### `35:00` 顶尖词作人的惺惺相惜与基金会的运作机制 尽管说唱文化历来充满竞争与好胜心（现场的即兴麦克风环节也依然火花四射），但在这个房间里，自负被彻底放下。两年前 Ice Cube 来到现场时曾直言，自己当年发专辑前一定要先听 Scarface 说了什么，以确保自己能跟上顶尖水准。随后，Scarface 与 Rakim 这两位嘻哈史上公认最伟大的词作巨匠，在现场就说唱写作与文字技巧展开了史无前例的深度交流与互敬。目睹这两位神级人物坐在一起畅谈创作，令在场的所有音乐人震撼不已。 本·霍洛维茨借此机会介绍了“Paid in Full Foundation”官方网站（paidinfullfoundation.org）的筹款模式。为了确保透明与纯粹，他和妻子菲莉西亚（Felicia）为每一笔外部捐款提供 2.5:1 的配捐匹配（即每捐 1 美元，霍洛维茨夫妇追加 2.5 美元）。此外，基金会没有任何受薪员工，全员皆为无偿志愿服务，确保进入基金会的每一分钱都能百分之百直接交到先驱艺术家手中。 > “To watch Scarface and Rakim acknowledge each other's writing skills... you're talking about two of the greatest writers in anything.” —— 嘉宾对两大传奇对话的感慨 - 资金完全直达：基金会零雇员成本，霍洛维茨夫妇提供 2.5 比 1 的配捐比例。 - 史诗级同框：Rakim 与 Scarface 在活动中首次面对面公开切磋探讨写作技艺。 --- ### `37:32` Grandmaster Caz 的自白：改变一生的五年资助与离开廉租房 作为实际获奖者，Grandmaster Caz 讲述了这份资助如何从物质与尊严层面彻底改变了他的命运。早前 LL Cool J 曾拉他进入电台工作以改善生计，但 Paid in Full Foundation 提供的是一份为期五年的长期资助（grant）。这份经济保障不仅缓解了他多年来只能在街头奔波糊口（run out, grind, hustle）的日夜焦虑，更让他实现了人生夙愿。 Caz 坦言，除了曾在加利福尼亚生活过三年，他大半辈子都生活在纽约布朗克斯（The Bronx）。过去 10 到 15 年间，他心头挥之不去的梦魇就是“不想死在廉租房（projects）里”。如今，凭借这笔资助，他和妻子终于在宾夕法尼亚州买下了一套属于自己的漂亮房子。他感慨道，外界总以为自己 60 多岁还在台上充满激情是因为热爱，但残酷的现实是他过去是“不得不拼命”。基金会不仅赋予了他前所未有的生活安全感（cushion），更让这位 Hip-Hop 奠基人得以体面、有尊严地安度晚年。 > “And the last thoughts in my head for the last like 10, 15 years, I don't want to die in the projects... and it didn't end here.” —— Grandmaster Caz ### `40:00` 嘻哈没有社保：从谋生尊严到公开致敬 Grandmaster Caz 直言不讳地指出，嘻哈文化内部根本不存在任何制度化的社会安全网：“嘻哈没有社保，嘻哈没有任何健康福利，你必须去工作，你必须始终守在外面。”对他而言，为了维持生计、保持活跃，他必须持续不断地工作：做广播电台节目、跑街头公园演出（park jams）、带嘻哈观光巴士团。他非常感恩自己的态度和待人接物的方式，让人们始终记住了他。谈及 Paid in Full Foundation 的资助时，Caz 透露最初有些人甚至怀疑这是诈骗，或者出于自尊心回绝说“我不需要这个，我自己挺好”，误以为这是一种施舍。但 Caz 强调，这绝对不是施舍，奖金只是一部分，“最关键的是荣誉，是将你放在你理应身处的聚光灯下”。他特别致敬了 LL Cool J，提到 LL Cool J 当年在完全没有义务的情况下，创办了电台节目并把 Caz 和 Sha-Rock 推上广播席，让他们周一到周五常驻主持，开辟了全新的生存空间；当业界有头有脸的重要人物站出来给予前辈应有的认可时，其他人也会感受到这种道义上的责任。 Nas 对此深有感触，指出这种认可正是“能够持续滋养的馈赠”（the gift that keeps giving）。因为这份举动出于纯粹的爱，它能激励更多人意识到大家必须互相关照。Nas 透露，早在 90 年代末期，就陆续有嘻哈同行向他求助，他也私下里默默资助过不少人，甚至包括最近刚刚过世的一位嘻哈音乐制作人。Nas 坦言自己一直在想，圈内到底还有多少人像他一样在暗地里悄悄接济同道；而 Paid in Full Foundation 的伟大之处在于，它将这种帮扶从台面下的私下接济，变成了堂堂正正、面向全世界展示的公开致敬——“我们在照料我们自己的人，我们在回馈那项曾经养育了我们的文化”。 - 嘻哈行业缺乏医疗福利与养老保障，元老级先驱必须常年依赖广播、带团巡游和巡回走穴维持生计。 - 部分先驱起初将经济资助误判为骗局或施舍，基金会的核心宗旨是用殿堂级荣誉匹配实质帮扶。 - LL Cool J 曾主动为 Grandmaster Caz 与 Sha-Rock 设立周一至周五的电台黄金时段，展现了后辈对先驱的公开回馈。 - Nas 证实自己从 90 年代末便长期在私下低调接济陷入困境的音乐人与制作人，而基金会将其升华为公开、宏大的行业行动。 --- ### `43:08` 嘻哈重塑全球商业：从 Adidas、Sprite 到时尚帝国 大家谈到 Ben Horowitz 的书中经常引用嘻哈歌词作为灵感来源，话题随之延伸到嘻哈先驱对主流商业品牌的惊人塑造力。Steve Stoute 谈及自己撰写的《The Tanning of America》（美国的古铜化）一书，其初衷正是记录嘻哈文化如何从无到有创造了现代消费帝国。例如在 Run-DMC 标志性的演唱会上，成千上万的歌迷在演出时齐刷刷举起脚上的 Adidas 运动鞋。当时 Adidas 在美国市场的份额仅有区区 2%，且这 2% 中有四分之三全集中在美东东北部；德国管理层完全搞不懂为什么当地人都在疯狂抢购某一个特定鞋款（Superstar），而且为什么买回去后第一件事是把鞋带抽掉扔掉。正是嘻哈文化一手挽救了当时濒临死局的 Adidas。 不仅如此，Grand Puba（来自 Brand Nubian）早期的经典歌词“First things first, obey your thirst”，后来直接成为了雪碧（Sprite）风靡全球的招牌广告语“服从你的渴望”（Obey Your Thirst）。Steve Stoute 进一步剖析了 Tommy Hilfiger 的发家史：最初 Tommy Hilfiger 只是在卖男士领带，苦苦模仿 Ralph Lauren 却根本没人买账，商业上走投无路。由于他住在康涅狄格州的格林尼治（Greenwich），下班离开纽约市时，他选择抄近道穿过哈林区（Harlem）开往威斯特彻斯特（Westchester）。在哈林街头，他目睹黑人青年们把裤子拉得极低（sagging），露出 Calvin Klein 内裤的边缘。Tommy 受到启发，立即做出了标志性的加宽、加厚松紧腰带内裤，将“Tommy Hilfiger”巨大字样印在上面，品牌随即引爆全美街头。Steve 指出，嘻哈先驱们开创了今天路易威登（Louis Vuitton）都在售卖、由 Pharrell Williams（Skateboard P）和已故的 Virgil Abloh 执掌的高端街头服饰（streetwear）潮流，但这些最初奠定文化基础的开拓者，却从未获得过属于他们的商业红利。 - **Adidas 商业逆转**：Run-DMC 推广前，Adidas 在美市场份额仅 2%，其中 75% 销量来自受嘻哈影响的美东地区。 - **雪碧广告语起源**：Grand Puba 的原创说唱词“First things first, obey your thirst”直接演变为雪碧的全球营销核心口号。 - **Tommy Hilfiger 的哈林灵感**：品牌创始人途经哈林区目睹低腰垮裤露内裤边现象，改良推出加粗品牌松紧带内裤，使原本滞销的领带生意转型为现象级街头品牌。 - **高端街头潮流演进**：从哈林街头原生态穿搭演变为 Virgil Abloh 与 Pharrell Williams 操盘的 Louis Vuitton 顶级奢侈品产品线。 --- ### `46:08` 菲莉西亚与生死救援：超越合同与奖金的真爱 Steve Stoute 强调，Paid in Full 并不是要包揽解决世界上所有的问题，而是为了形成一种势头，号召大品牌和行业后来者加入捐赠，或者成立类似机构，怀着“爱与尊重”去回馈那些启发了自己商业帝国的开拓者。为了说明这种爱与尊重如何深入骨髓，Ben Horowitz 分享了一段关于传奇说唱歌手 Scarface 的生死故事。Scarface 当时患有严重的心脏病，需要接受开胸手术，但他出身于一个人们极度畏惧就医、甚至生病根本不去医院的街头环境。Ben 的妻子、同时也是基金会总裁的 Felicia Horowitz 在电话中察觉到了 Scarface 的恐惧与抗拒。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Felicia Horowitz 救援 Scarface 流程 accDescr: 展示 Felicia 察觉 Scarface 病情危险、飞往休斯敦强行送医并及时救治主动脉破裂的全过程。 subgraph SG1["察觉危机"] A["Scarface 患严重心脏病<br/>需进行开胸手术"] --> B["源自街头心理产生就医抗拒<br/>坚决拒绝前往医院"] B --> C["Felicia 电话沟通察觉异样<br/>感知其内心极度恐慌"] end subgraph SG2["强行介入"] C --> D["Felicia 立即飞往休斯敦<br/>现场直面 Scarface"] D --> E["'恶霸'姿态硬核施压<br/>强行将其押送上车送医"] end subgraph SG3["生死一线"] E --> F["刚抵医院诊室瞬间<br/>Scarface 主动脉当场破裂"] F --> G["医疗团队极限抢救成功<br/>生死时速挽救生命"] end ``` 身高仅五英尺（约 152 厘米）、体重刚过 100 磅的 Felicia 毫不犹豫地飞往休斯敦。面对坚称“我不看医生”的 Scarface，被他戏称为“小霸王”（the bully）的 Felicia 强硬地命令道：“不行，我现在就要带你去看医生。”就在两人刚刚迈入医院大门的瞬间，Scarface 的主动脉突然破裂（aorta burst）。医生抓住了千钧一发的抢救窗口，成功挽救了他的生命。Ben 直言：“如果不是因为她如此深切地在乎他，这一切根本不可能发生。” Grandmaster Caz 对此充满敬意，感叹道：“这当中倾注的是真真切切的爱。”在 Paid in Full Foundation，关怀完全超出了奖杯和支票的范畴：仪式结束后联系从不间断，Felicia 会冷不丁打电话询问先驱们的生活近况、问候家里的妻子；一旦得知谁的妻子生病，第二天鲜花便会送到门口，甚至还会贴心送上 Dior 墨镜等慰问礼物。Caz 动情地表示，这种毫无功利、真诚纯粹的爱与牵挂，是他过去在任何其他奖项、资助或基金会中从未体会过的，这也让即将到来的下一届 Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards 具有无可替代的历史分量。 > “在刚到医生那里的那一刻，他的主动脉破裂了。他们抢救及时，救了他的命。如果不是因为她如此在乎他，这一切都不会发生。” —— Ben Horowitz 讲述妻子 Felicia 飞赴休斯敦挽救 Scarface 生命的经历。 - **生死救援**：Scarface 因心理抗拒拒绝心脏手术，Felicia Horowitz 亲赴休斯敦强行押送其就医，入院瞬间其主动脉破裂，抢救及时脱险。 - **文化掌舵者**：基金会总裁 Felicia 确立了超越合约的救助文化，将医疗救助与长期关怀置于奖项运作的核心。 - **日常细节温情**：Grandmaster Caz 证实基金会会在颁奖后长期随访，日常关怀包括问候家属、赠送鲜花与 Dior 太阳镜等定制心意。 ### `50:00` 始于餐桌的终生友谊与共同的音乐狂热 对谈转向了 Ben Horowitz 与 Nas 最初相识并成为挚友的过往。主持人询问 Steve Stoute 是在哪一刻意识到 Ben 和 Nas 会成为终生好友的，Nas 回忆说，这始于多年前 Steve 组织的一场晚宴。那是在曼哈顿下城的知名餐厅 Mr. Chow，整间包厢里汇聚了一群非常精彩的人物，包括 Fab 5 Freddy 等人也在场。Nas 坦言自己此前就听说过 Ben，而正是在那场聚会上两人初次相见。他们之所以一拍即合并维系至今，完全是出于对音乐以及对美食由衷的狂热与共鸣。 Ben 补充表示，他与 Nas 在一起最美好的时光，就是坐下来一起细细拆解音乐。比如两人一起听传奇说唱歌手 Rakim 的作品，Nas 能在 Rakim 的曲目中捕捉到常人根本察觉不到的微妙细节；他们还会一起深入分析 Prince 的音乐，甚至一同前往拜访被称为“Triple OG”（元老级传奇）的 Quincy Jones。Ben 感慨道，Nas 本人作为一名殿堂级艺术家已经足够卓越，但在光环之下，他对音乐的狂热与鉴赏力同样处于最高水准。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Ben Horowitz 与 Nas 的友谊纽带 accDescr: 展示了促成 Ben Horowitz 与 Nas 建立深厚关系的催化剂与共同支柱。 subgraph S1["联结契机"] A["Steve Stoute 牵线晚宴<br/>(Mr. Chow Downtown)"] end subgraph S2["核心纽带"] B["美食文化"] C["极致的音乐热情"] end subgraph S3["共同体验"] D["拆解 Rakim & Prince 音乐细节"] E["拜访音乐传奇 Quincy Jones"] end A --> B A --> C C --> D C --> E ``` ### `51:43` Quincy Jones 家中的试镜录像与 Nas 家族的爵士血脉 Steve Stoute 分享了一段在 Quincy Jones 家中的难忘经历。当时 Quincy 刚搬入新宅（或刚完成翻修），在场的还有喜剧演员 Chris Tucker。Quincy 现场给他们播放了电影《紫色》（The Color Purple）当年的选角试镜录像。录像里，导演 Steven Spielberg 亲自举着摄像机，而年轻的 Whoopi Goldberg 坐在镜头前；她刚开始还在非常随意、正常地对着镜头闲聊，但一拿到剧本开始读台词，仅仅一秒钟之内，泪水就夺眶而出。Steve 震撼地表示，那是他人生中第一次亲眼目睹何为真正的演技，这种表演技巧完全超乎常人。 随后众人聊到 Nas，Steve 顺口提起了 Nas 的父亲——著名爵士乐音乐家 Olu Dara。话音刚落，尽管年纪已高，Quincy 却行动极其敏捷地起身走向他的黑胶唱片收藏区，很快翻出了一张泛黄的照片：那是 Quincy Jones 与 Olu Dara 早在 1960 年代在法国圣特罗佩（Saint-Tropez）的合影。Steve 惊叹于两位音乐大师早有如此深厚的交集。Nas 笑着回忆道，小的时候父亲经常提到自己认识各种大人物，比如 1983 或 1984 年放克乐团 Mtume 的热门单曲《Juicy Fruit》火遍全球时，父亲就说他和对方是哥们，但自己当时以为父亲只是随口说说、想哄孩子开心，根本没当真。直到多年后他才明白，父亲早在年轻时就深居那个顶尖音乐圈子的中心。Steve 动情地指出，这展现了艺术基因的力量，Nas 惊人的才华正是源自他家族深厚的音乐传承——正如 Nas 所言，其家族根植于密西西比州的纳奇兹（Natchez），祖父当年也是乐队乐手，音乐流淌在整个家族的血脉之中。关于对 Whoopi Goldberg 演技的震撼，Steve Stoute 感叹道：“I was like, it was the first time I seen acting, and I was like, I mean, I knew for a fact, this is fucking a skill that is beyond.” - Steve Stoute 见证的《紫色》试镜录像由 Steven Spielberg 手持摄像机拍摄，展现了 Whoopi Goldberg 瞬间落泪的殿堂级演技。 - Quincy Jones 珍藏着自己在 1960 年代与 Nas 的父亲 Olu Dara 在法国圣特罗佩的珍贵合影。 - Nas 回忆大约在 1983 至 1984 年间，当金曲《Juicy Fruit》风靡全球时，其父亲 Olu Dara 就与创作者交情甚笃，但年幼的 Nas 以为父亲只是吹牛。 - Nas 的父亲 Olu Dara 出生于密西西比州纳奇兹，其家族多代皆为职业音乐人。 ### `55:18` 支持 Paid in Full 基金会与尾声 对谈在对 Paid in Full 基金会的最后号召中迎来尾声。嘉宾们呼吁大众访问官方网站 `paidinfullfoundation.org` 参与支持。所有筹集到的资金都会以 2.5:1 的比例进行配捐并直接发放给嘻哈先驱艺术家手中。正如参与者所指出的，该基金会举办的年度颁奖典礼不仅是一场慈善活动，更是全球独一无二的盛事。任何亲临现场的人都能感受到几代嘻哈人齐聚一堂的震撼与感动，这将成为参与者终生难忘的珍贵记忆。Ben Horowitz 总结道：“Everybody who's ever been to it will tell you it's the greatest charitable event in the world.” ## Notable quotes > `00:00` In hip hop you can’t just give somebody money. It has to be more than that. It has to be a recognition of what they did and who they are. — Nas > `00:00` Hip-hop don't have social security. You have to work — Grandmaster Caz > `25:00` I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. And if you start with what's right, then you have it. — Ben Horowitz > `05:00` People act like things are inevitable, but they’re not. Somebody’s got to do something. — Ben Horowitz ## Mentioned Ben Horowitz, Erik Torenberg, Nas, Grandmaster Caz, Steve Stoute, Felicia Horowitz, Paid in Full Foundation, Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards, Scarface, Rakim, Eric B. & Rakim, Quincy Jones, Quincy Jones III (QD3), Sugarhill Gang, Roxanne Shanté, Swizz Beatz, Dr. Dre, Kool Moe Dee, Slick Rick, UnitedMasters, Melle Mel, The D.O.C., Grand Puba, Brand Nubian, Masters of Ceremony, George Clinton, Nile Rodgers, Chic, Sister Sledge, Daft Punk, Kool Rock-Ski, The Fat Boys, Kool G Rap, Ice Cube, LL Cool J, Sha-Rock, Run-DMC, Adidas, Sprite, Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, Louis Vuitton, Pharrell Williams, Virgil Abloh, Fab 5 Freddy, Prince, Chris Tucker, Steven Spielberg, Whoopi Goldberg, Olu Dara, Mtume ## Video description Ben Horowitz and Erik Torenberg sit down with Nas, Grandmaster Caz, and Steve Stoute for a conversation about the Paid in Full Foundation and its mission to recognize and support the pioneers who built hip-hop. Ben, Nas, and Steve share how the foundation began, why simply giving artists money wasn’t enough, and how the Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards became a way to pair financial support with the recognition many foundational artists never received. Caz brings the perspective of one of those pioneers, reflecting on his role in hip-hop’s earliest history and what receiving the award has meant for his life and legacy. They also discuss the enormous cultural and commercial impact of hip-hop beyond music, from language and fashion to some of the world’s biggest brands, why so many of its pioneers captured so little of that value, and what happens when generations of hip-hop finally come together in the same room. [Source](https://mgln.ai/e/1344/afp-848985-injected.calisto.simplecastaudio.com/3f86df7b-51c6-4101-88a2-550dba782de8/episodes/bde9dcba-b188-4612-9f1b-1d14c1fd0bd8/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=3f86df7b-51c6-4101-88a2-550dba782de8&awEpisodeId=bde9dcba-b188-4612-9f1b-1d14c1fd0bd8&feed=JGE3yC0V)

[0:00] Nas: In hip hop you can’t just give somebody money. It has to be more than that. It has to be a recognition of what they did and who they are. [0:00] Grandmaster Caz: Hip-hop don't have social security. You have to work [25:00] Ben Horowitz: I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. And if you start with what's right, then you have it. [5:00] Ben Horowitz: People act like things are inevitable, but they’re not. Somebody’s got to do something.

[0:00] Ben Horowitz: I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. [5:00] Ben Horowitz: People act like things are inevitable, but they're not. Somebody's got to do something.

[0:00] I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. Hip-hop's not that big. Like, the guys who made the art form are not that many. And so why can't we honor them? Acknowledging and celebrating and then bringing this group of people together is something that the industry should have done a long time ago. When people see me and they see my passion, this nigga still got it. He's still doing it because I have to. Hip-hop don't have social security. You have to work. The whole thing about hip-hop is about to grow to be better. And I think we are living our lyrics with Peyton Floor. I want everybody to know around the world what Grandmaster Kaz looks like and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's done and celebrate Roxanne and celebrate Melly and the DOC and everybody else who's had these achievements. The thing is the honor. The thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in. If you're watching this and love hip hop, hip hop changed music, fashion, language, and culture. But many of the people who built it never received the recognition or financial rewards that matched their impact. In this episode Ben Horowitz and I sit down with Nas Grandmaster Kaz and Steve Stout to tell the story behind the Payton Full Foundation and its mission to honor hip pioneers We discuss why the foundation pairs financial support with recognition, what happens when generations of hip-hop artists come together, and why giving these artists their flowers is about more than an award. and Kaz shares what that recognition has meant firsthand from his place in hip-hop history to how Paid in Full helped change his life. So this is the first time this group has gotten together to publicly talk about the Paid in Full Foundation. Guys, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So Ben, why don't you introduce the foundation and maybe let's get into the origin story as far back as you want to go as to how this came to be. Yeah, so Paid in Full is an organization meant to honor the legacy of the people who created one of the most important musical art forms of all time, hip hop, and make sure that they're paid in full financially, spiritually, and culturally. And the idea kind of started with me, Steve, and Nas. So it always bothered me that I bought paid in full the album for And I got you know in my career and you know people in tech know this I probably got at least million worth of value out of that record but there was no way to pay it back and it needed to be paid back. And so I had the idea originally and I called Steve. Steve and I have been friends for many, many years. And I said, Steve, I have this idea. What do you think? And he said, well, it's not only a good idea, but is a very timely idea because people are talking about this right now, but they're not doing anything. So if you listen to the podcast, people are saying, oh, these rappers, these old guys, they don't have any money. They're dusty. They're this, they're that, and all these kinds of things. And these are very, very important guys, but nobody's doing anything. And so I thought, well, let's do something. And then the next call I made was to Nas. And Nas had a great insight because a lot of the concept, our dear friend, all of our friend, Quincy Jones, had a thing called the Jazz Foundation where he would get money to the old jazz guys. And I told it to Nas and Nas said that not going to work that way in hip hop because in hip hop you can just give somebody money It has to be more than that It has to be a recognition of what they did and who they are And so that's when we got the idea of, well, let's have a big awards show, have this idea of the Grand Master Award for the true greats of hip-hop, and then invite everybody to honor these guys. And we started it off with two all-time greats, Scarface and Rakim. Well, let's add to that, if you don't mind. Before we even got to the first show, it was also timely because Scarface was going through a medical condition. Yes. And I remember I was in south of France, and I called him, and he needed to get his kidney. He had to get his kidney from his son, a kidney transplant. And it wasn't the right doctors, and obviously there's a lot of care and concern on that anyway. But more specific was the money and the doctor who was performing the surgery. And I called him, and I've known Scarface for years, but like when I called him literally from the south of France in June, and he got that phone call from me about what we were going to do, he was in shock. [5:00] Imagine the phone call come randomly from a guy you hadn't spoken to in two years. and I'm calling you about your medical condition, and I'm telling you that we got you financially. We're going to help you. And I remember calling Ben after that and saying, look, I spoke to Scarface, man. He was in disbelief. In fact, early on, people were in such disbelief, they didn't believe that. It was real. We had a hard time. We had a hard time actually helping people because they didn't believe it. Yeah, I have some stories on that. I don't even know if I can mention the names. We had people who literally didn't get the award because they thought it was a scam. They just didn't want to mess with it. And that's actually... What reinforce the belief that If you celebrated the artist and it didn't feel like you were Giving them something... like reparations, but you were actually celebrating them and give them the honor and dignity they deserve that they had not received properly. then that would be the way that it would be accepted and celebrated. And it wasn't until we did the first one And it was, you know, like any other startup, you duct tape and whatever we got to do to get this thing going. But we had. Scarface and Rakim. and then Obviously, the support of the board and having Nas on the board, that all helped. And then it was started to go through the community. There is something that's happening, and that's when it worked. But literally it was disbelief. from the initial phone calls and just initial reach out like why would anybody do this that's how fucked They've been for so long. Like, why would anybody come look and try to help us now? Yeah, and how the rap community has been like to not show love. to be so divided. to act like it's every man for itself. Rap is competitive. But at some point, we got to bring it around to what it's supposed to be. And it was funny, like nothing like this ever existed. It's sort of like when you were talking to me, I was like, why hasn't this happened? Like, I'm in the right. circle of people to be talking about the right thing. And it was almost like it was daring for us to even to do something like this. Yeah. Well, it's one of those things where I think somebody got to step up at some point. And that's the thing about... history in general is People act like things are inevitable, but they're not. Somebody's got to do something. And that's been the thing that's, you know, once it's done, it's very obvious. But until somebody steps up, it doesn't happen. And actually, I met Kaz in New York, kind of right around the first year. And I I remember we had a great conversation, but then kind of going back and re-understanding how important CAS was. Like, Steve, let me ask you this. In a different circumstance and a different kind of timing, how big would it have been? Kaz... I talked about you After I met you. I speak about you. The fact that you are So charismatic. Still, right now. Right now. That you hold no bitterness in your heart. and you present yourself as a star. I mean, it's clear. if you would have been, I mean, 12 years later? I mean, just forget it. By the way, if you would have actually just got the credit you deserve in the beginning, we wouldn't even have to fast forward at 12 years. But I'm just saying that When you walk into a room, it shifts. you have that level of presence and talent and star power. So I think it's definitely ageless. the time period, but... It was shocking to me. that Again, Everybody had known. what had happened to Cass. Everybody. It's the original. Not enough people knew though. Yeah. At the same time. Not enough people knew. But the right people knew, the industry knew, In the music industry, knew that. 100%. The music industry knew. Yeah. I mean... Kaz... wrote. the rhyme that became Rap is Delight. I mean, those were his rhymes. - With his name. - With his name in the rhymes. - The first hit. - And it was, the first hip hop hit. was stolen from him. And he didn't get what he deserved and everybody knew it and But no one ever did anything about it, never said anything about it, didn't give a fuck about it. When we were having our board calls and we were thinking about who we were going to honor, I mean... One of the privileges of having this group of people looking at the cases. and deciding who we're going to give the award to You say certain people [10:00] names and it's unanimous. It's like, it's like, it's like everybody, it's like, yes. And then everyone's arguing why their yes is more. Yes. Right. Yo, Kaz. Yes. But you don't understand why I said, because everybody's so delighted that we nailed the person. and Then you meet the person and it is so beautiful when they walk in the room. Right. And I like... we've been blessed. Um, to have honored people who not only deserve it, But when they got the phone call, They didn't come in... with about time or, you know, any of that kind of energy, they came in, uh, smile bright glowing You know, I think about Kaz and Shantae when I just think about you know, that, like just glowing. When Roxanne got the award, And she said, you know, her child. A child never said, you know, Mom, you see all these rappers, these female rappers getting all these awards. Don't you ever feel bitter about that or you don't feel anything about that? She's like, no. No. I didn't want that award, I wanted the right award. - Yeah. - Paid in full. And I was like, - - Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome that we were able to do that and to be able to give... "These artists, not recognition." right now. And then having the artist... be a part of voting for the future recipients. Right. So Kaz is now a recipient and he's part of the committee who's voting for future recipients. And that's the gift that keeps giving about this foundation. And Shantae is one of the reasons I'm here. You know, she's from my neighborhood, same neighborhood. And when she released Roxanne's Revenge back in 1984, 1985, she was a kid. Older than me, but a kid. And... when I saw that she could be on the radio rapping and going after men, it was like she was like an activist and beating them. She was like an activist, a woman's activist, you know, because that was unheard of in hip-hop. And when I saw her be that bold and to challenge a whole established rap group and change the course of this whole thing, for me, that was incredibly inspiring, you know. So to have her be a part of this, to me, it's still crazy. I love it. When I was kind of brought in You know what I mean? On, on, you know, I had no idea what was going on. I just know somebody that I know from a while back reached out to me. I hadn't heard from in years and that was Quincy QD three. And I'm like, Q, what's up? Yo, this and that, such and such. He's like this and that. He was pretty vague, but he was like, I want you to come downtown and you know what I mean? This and that. And that's when I met Ben and everybody. And I really didn't, wasn't, Wasn't fully you know what I mean, but I was being vetted To some degree, you know what I mean? We want we want this guy. Let's see what is you know? Let's see where his head is at. Let's see where is attitude because I've seen or heard about you know other people who deserve but don't you know what I mean? I Just I just came just with my spirit and the fact that I So many people these guys had alluded to earlier had had brought this up earlier or brought up the subject. You know, we should give the old school dudes, you know, a million dollars. You know, I mean, I think Swiss Beast made it public. Shout out to Swiss. Not to interrupt you, but I just did. Sorry, but I had to say it. When you were saying that, you reminded me of something. I spoke about this in a magazine, I think in the 90s. They asked, what would I do? Or maybe the year 2000, they asked a bunch of hip hop artists. And I described this to a T. So I just saw somebody pointed that out to me like last month. I forgot I even said that. You planted this. So we all been wanting this type of thing. Sorry to cut you off again, because I just got excited at that memory. And... I would debate. hip hop with Ben. I would debate hip hop with Steve, forever. Me and Steve will stop speaking disagreeing. Me and Ben will analyze the album to death. Ben got with you and sent me a video of your conversation and about Sugar Hill Gang and everything. I couldn't believe that you cared so much. [15:00] Bid from the Bay about the origin story of some of the greatest hip hop history ever, but I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was just like the care that we have for the culture and, is the same. Like, Kaz, like I talk to you about history. Every time I approach you, I'm stalking you about what happened this year and that year and the other. So it's not just the pay the full thing is like a it's a way that we convinced. ourselves that we can be together And we can get together and not just talk about it from afar. We can actually talk to Cass. We could actually be in a room with Rakim. And it's not just this thing that's so spread out. It's bringing us together. It feels like a... Like a class reunion. Yes. And... Last year. when Dr. Dre Heard about Peyton Fuller decided to come. Oh, that's all. I was in shock. that he Ask me. Could I introduce him to Kumo D? He never met him before. Yeah. And I was like, this is... First of all, I would never even think of that. You know, not that... That Dr. Dre never met Kumu D before? So Dre did this to me too. In Vegas. He said, could I introduce him to Slick Rick? He never met him before. Yeah. . Oh my God. Thank you. It took this foundation to bring these happy people together. And the bond is that strong. The bond is so strong that 25, 30 years removed. Dr. Dre... with all of his glory and success, It's like, man, could you Could you please introduce me to Slick Rick and Kumo D? But... At the same time, that it took this... Celebration. in order to bring these legends together in the same room. - Agreed. - To create that moment. - Yeah, I think the industry itself like separates us, you know, by success, status, you know what I mean? Who's hot, who's signed, who this and that, you know what I mean? So I, I, I haven't if I see Nas, it's like by happenstance or something all these years. You know what I mean? Mutual respect. You know what I mean? But I don't see him all the time. If he reaches out or something, as he's did in the past and done a project and say, yo, Kaz, I want you to be a part. I'm on it. automatically I ain't got to see them or none of that just say it and I'm there you know what I mean Now I see him every year. I can call him on the phone. Steve Stout. You hear about Steve Stout, big businessman. He done made this person rich. He done. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a special thing. Moment. that is growing every year. - Yeah. - It's growing every year. Thank you. To Kaz's point, This idea of separating artists Mm. I'm not sure why that happened. I'm not sure if it was the industry doing the industry's doings on purpose. Or was it just... the fact that rap was broken into like old school, new school, this, that, and the third. So they just, it was just no connection. But... The truth of the matter is that the real artist... have respect for the person that they had their posts on their wall, definitely. The first CD they bought or the first CD, the first tape that they bought. And that respect that inspired Either... me as a businessman or Nas as an artist or Ben as a businessman, whatever it is, that'll never, ever go away like sports heroes. It never goes away. And so the foundation acknowledging and celebrating And then bringing this group of people together is something that the industry should have done a long time ago. And like there's been attempts like the VH1 thing. Yeah, to be hip hop honors. Hip hop honors. Yeah. And it's cool. It's putting a light on it, on these artists. But it's not putting anything in their pockets. Yeah. It's not... It's not investing money. in the artist. It's not making them feel like they've gotten acknowledged for everything that they contributed. That was a point... it was two things that It was starting paid in full. but also... been investing in United Masters. The idea was like, how do you contribute so much culturally? [20:00] But yet... the financial take is so meaningless. How do you pour so much in and get so little out? No respect, I'll tell you. You know, and everybody became comfortable with that idea. They just accepted it. as, oh, that's just the way it is. That's just the way it is. Meanwhile, you're changing the way people are dressing. You're changing dialect. You're changing so much in the world and yet you Your bank account or acknowledgement for what you've contributed to, is not even... It doesn't add up. It's not, that's not inspiring. And it doesn't incentivize. creativity. It doesn't incentivize anything. It incentivizes people to feel like they've been robbed and stoned from. And not to cut you off, in the lyrics of hip-hop, we speak about the total opposite. We speak about breaking down barriers. We speak about changing the system. We speak about We speak about love. being entrepreneurs and taking this thing into our hands and keeping it real. But then the action of keeping it real wasn't happening outside the studio. You play a record, this dude sounds like he's the realest ever. Then you see him, he won't speak to you. You see him, he's posted up and he's not talking to you. You see him, you could be like, yo, I need some help. He's looking at you, he's laughing at you. You know what I'm saying? It's a competitiveness to the max. And it doesn't like what the lyrics said you hear the lyrics of rap we since the beginning since Kaz was talking what he was talking and inspiring and putting his DNA into this thing and and and bigger groups will come from Kaz and bigger soloists and the rap game will be shifted with what Kaz put down and the lyrics represent one thing but How are we going to be real when we say we're hip-hop, we're real, and then the actions are not happening? It's just going to be on record? It can't just be on record. The whole thing about hip hop is about to grow, to be better. And I think we are living our lyrics. We're paid in full. And it takes the courage of... Ben and his wife Felicia and that foundation to put the money up. um, to match... the contribution of, to be able to fund something like this. I mean, you would Think. that or you would hope, that it would come from an organization that benefited financially from. You would write a label. One would guess. One would guess. If you just say, who do you think will help these guys? You'd be like, oh, definitely the record company. No one sold this person. No, it takes somebody. It is hard for me to sell them a ticket. It's a crazy rap fan. That's crazy. A crazy rap fan. And Felicia. who is a entrepreneur who has deep soul and belief in what, in respect for creativity, um, That made this one of his missions to help solve this and make sure the right guys get properly awarded and and and the respect they deserve. Bye. And I think this year I think this year is going to be a pivotal year for the organization. Um, This is our fourth year. And we have a great, great, great, great lineup. It's. Very well produced. You don't walk in. First year, lucky you wasn't there. You know, we were feeling our way through. It was a little long. It was a little this, that, and the third time. will be learned Like anything else, we learn... refined, got tighter, got smarter. And I think we got it now. Um, in year four Where... It's going to be our biggest year. And hopefully... This thing, I believe that as well as produced as this show will be, that is something that we could take forever. wider. At the same time, I feel like... I want everybody to know around the world what Grandmaster Kaz looks like and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's done and celebrate Roxanne and celebrate, you know, Melly and the DOC and everybody else who's. you know, had these achievements... these achievements that they've done and contributed so much to their culture that they get a chance to see their heroes on the platform that they respect. I think when you do something big and important, not only [25:00] in hip-hop, but in anything. People are going to emulate. People are going to want to follow. If they see a formula that works, Ben, you're a testament to this. See a formula that works, you want in, and you're going to want to try to do something. And a lot of people lost, I don't know, face or whatever, because all of these, nobody did it yet. And Steve and I have conversations about this kind of thing all the time, but I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. And if you start with what's right, then you have it. It may not be possible, but at least you have a chance to do something great. And so, you know, that's always how I came at it. I was like, look, we ought to be able to figure this out. It's not... Hip-hop's not that big. Like, the guys who made the art form are not that many. And so why can't we honor them? Like, it just didn't make any sense to me. And then by the way I mean you guys were very kind saying you know I wasn a beneficiary I a big beneficiary of Kaz and Nas and Rakim in that they were you all were the inspiration to my career And one, what got me through like a very, very difficult times in business, so hard that I wrote like a bestselling book about how hard it was. And in the book, you know, I had the rap lyrics, which in Silicon Valley, I actually got a lot of criticism for it. It's like, what are you doing with hip hop? You know, is that some kind of gimmick and so forth? And I was like, no, this is credit where credit is due. The ideas that I had in business came from those lyrics. And that's why the chapters, that's why the idea started with the lyric, because that's where the idea started. And it was just credit where credit was due. And so it was my, you know, my chance to, in my mind, just do what was right and pay it back. and, you know, look, I'm an entrepreneur. I know how to build things. So, you know, building a foundation didn't seem that hard. Yeah, no, I haven't. If I got pushed back or like people talked about it bad, I don't listen. I can't even hear it. No, he doesn't. He doesn't hear it. And what you do you bring people you invite people who would probably be like have no interest in this topic yeah and you and you bring them there and you know what they do i seen it convert yeah yeah they go there and they're like on their i'll go i'll go for ben i mean whatever i'll go for ben that's a lot of the tickets it's been then they go there and they're like oh shit i I didn't even know this, that, that. I didn't know that. And it connects a lot of dots. And there's obviously a lot of empathy. How do you not feel empathy for somebody who's invented something and didn't get what they deserve? But we don't. The theme of the night isn't that. The theme of the night isn't get what you deserve. That's the underlying foundational truth. and on top of that we celebrate the fact that you are getting now what you deserve you are getting the acknowledgement you and the light put on you in the right way by a bunch of people who respect you and that you were chosen to do it i mean come on man last year i met my man grand poobah for so long to see poobah out there yeah that made me feel so proud to have a you know like why would you will skip that It easy to skip it It just like oh no not that And you got Graham Puba At one point, the greatest rap. Oh, by the way, did it over three different. It's funny about rap. I don't know if you errors. It's not like decades, but errors could be four years. Right. It could be a four year where it just changed. And if you don't even if you're not part of it, you don't even realize how fast it changes right so masters of ceremony fran nubian poobah solo career yeah solo career yeah three eras three he went through three eras crazy and got through that and got to the other side very few artists had done that um and those changes during that period of time were drastic like it was like you were out there a lot of our favorite artists couldn't jump that fence and they got stuck on the other side. And then you all of a sudden, you're considered old school or you're considered washed or considered not dope anymore, whatever the thing was. And grand poop, I did that. No one's going to sit in it to turn around and watch this man go on stage and get his props. No one else is going to do that and no one else is going to put [30:00] time and have the people that understand that nuance. It's easy to write a check. You have people write checks of things and they checked that box Right. It's so love. The check is being written, and there's so much time going into making sure we get it right. Because of the love. And in the room there's love. Even if you didn't think you'd be walking in a room like that, you think it's going to be like some type of typical award show or something like that. It's genuine love. There's no egos. Nobody's putting their chest out in front of nobody. It doesn't matter if billionaires are over there and over here at that table and that table. Everybody's here on a real thing of learning what's happening on the stage. You're being educated. about our man Quincy Jones, who I spent a lot of time with Ben before he passed and then QD3 being there. And we're getting to see a Quincy Jones award happen through this because Quincy, had he been here, he would have been a part of this. Right. And and we get this last year, George Clinton went. He did. He brought the mothership. He did. He did a mothership thing for us. And it is George Clinton. He is the outer space guy. He is the guy who shifted music. And then him reciting at 83 years old, Rakim's lyrics on stage. This is like... This is a room of love on another level. Well, to the Quincy Jones Award... Quincy Jones, obvious legend, the legend of legends, the triple OG, the, you know, the foundation of it all. No disrespect. But the Grammys, botched his botched his Celebration. The idea for the Quincy Jones Award was literally because of how bad the Grammys did it. It wasn't like we thought we had to check that box. We couldn't believe... They got that wrong. They didn't pay tribute to this man properly, Uh... to the point that his son was like, QD3 was like, Let's do this. And now it's part of... What we do in the foundation on an annual basis. That's love. Can we say who the new recipient of the Chrissy Jones Award is? We got to let Steve say it. She works so hard on it. No, no. It's a funny story. We're not. We're not going to get into the detail of that story. But yeah. But who? Nile Rodgers, man. Yes. How do you not? Nile Rodgers. Yes. This is great. Nile Rodgers, who came up with a guitar lick that's been used. That's been used. Tom's. Mm-hmm. By the way, I mean, hip hop. That's his hip hop connection. Look at Sheik. Look at all the sister sledge. Look, I mean, go down the myriad of his songs he's produced. All the way up to Get Lucky. For Daft Punk, he's that guy. You know what I'm saying? So, boom. So we got Nile Rodgers this year getting the Quincy Jones Award. So, What we're doing is obviously we're making sure within our purview, whether it's... old school hip hop or... Quincy Jones, who... Should have gotten celebrated a little bit more properly with his Grammys. That. We're making a contribution to make sure we get it right. We're holding ourselves accountable to get it right. This is obviously a big thing to do. Because... You got families, estates, other artists looking at this Do you know? a side eye like Are these, are these, is this real? Is this going away anytime soon? Is this another facade? What are they selling on the back of this? They must be selling t-shirts off the trunk. Right? Yo, I called Kurok's key from the Fat Boys and like, yo, man, we want you in this. And I think for a second, he didn't think it was real. Yeah, I heard. I ain't gonna lie to you. He was there last year. Yeah. And you wouldn't think it was real. He walked off the stage not thinking it was real. Right, right, right. Where did Gucci rap say? - I want you to jump out. - G-Rap was very, very appreciative. G-Rap, I called him, he was very appreciative. I mean, you're one of the greatest MCs of all time, man. One of my biggest inspirations. And when people come again, it's love, man. It's real love. You know, it's your time. It's your show. [35:00] We're here for you. And I think it's surprising for them to feel like it's nothing like, like you said, we're not selling shirts out in the back. This is not for us. It gives us joy that We're doing this, but it's beautiful to see these people show up and be appreciated and showing. So you just talked about the ego thing. Of course it is. I mean, first of all, at the end you start going crazy on the mic, right? I mean, you and Moti last year. - Oh yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Y'all go crazy on the mic. So that's still there. Let's be clear. It's a celebration, but that part, the park jam part, is not going anywhere. - Hell of it. Yeah. because there's so much ego in rap, at least in this moment, in this room, it comes down to the point where Ice Cube came two years ago. Yeah. And he says... I wouldn't even put out an album until I listened to what Scarface had to say. I knew. You remember when he said this? Yeah, hell yeah. He's like, I knew before I dropped anything, I'd have to make sure what this guy was saying. And Scarface came after... - Yeah, Scarface came out the Cube. - But when Scarface came, whoa! "To watch Scarface and Rakim acknowledge each other's writing skills." Oh! Yo, dude, that's like... What's happening? If you love hip-hop... What's happening? If you love hip-hop... . If you're watching this and love hip-hop, You got to know to have Rakim and Scarface have a conversation about writing. And respect. that they have for each other, you know, real pure way is, um, You're talking about two of the greatest writers in anything. I don't give a fuck what it is. And anything. having a real discussion And every... hip-hop guy in the world before a sense would acknowledge what you said nobody would even yeah Some of the greatest writers of all. In hip-hop, Scarface and Rakim, like, not even a question. Nothing to discuss. Nothing to discuss. And they're discussing it for the first time at Paid in Full. That's how special this room is. Okay, let me give the plug. Paid in Full Foundation. dot org. You can come and be a part of it. And, uh, And Felicia and I match every donation two and a half to one, which means that All your money. goes to the artist. There are no paid employees at the foundation. Everything is volunteer. And so, you know, if you want to be part of it, if you want to contribute, paidandfullfoundation.org. And that's my plug. And I want to ask Kaz. That was pretty good. That's like a radio host. Thank you. We've been talking about it, but like... Being a recipient, What did it What has it meant to you from an honor standpoint, from a financial standpoint? How did it affect you personally? Tell us from that side. Yeah, I definitely was going to address that at some point because it's not – specifics, you know what I mean? Like, yo, this and that, this one gets that, this one gets that. It's like you get a... grant, you know what I mean, so to speak, and it's over a five-year period and it's helped change my life. You know, I mean, I was on a path to, you know, for self-improvement and trying to get things that, you know, LL Cool J called me a few years back and was like, yo, it's time. I want you on a radio. You know what I mean? But, you know, When Peyton Foo called me, You know what I mean? It was like, yo, now this is going to change your life. I bought a house. Wow. I mean, I moved out. And I lived in the Bronx all my life. Yeah. I only did a three year stint in Cali for a while, but I lived in a Bronx all my life. And I thought I would always I would end up here. And the last thoughts in my head for the last like 10, 15 years, I don't want to die in the projects. I don't want to I don't want to end here. I don't want it to end here. And it didn't. And it's not, you know what I mean? I got a nice house in Pennsylvania, you know what I'm saying? Me and my wife and I My life has improved drastically. I got a comfort. You know, I got like a cushion that I never had. You know what I mean? Everything was day to day. Everything was run out, grind, hustle. And when people see me and they see my passion, they see my, you know what I mean? This nigga still got it. He's still doing it because I have to. [40:00] I didn't have no no you know what I mean hip-hop don't have social security you know hip-hop don't have no Health benefits or none of that you have to work you got to stay out there for me anyway I got to keep working so when you see me on radio you see me doing park jams you see me doing hip-hop sightseeing tours and all All that was to maintain it keep me up and at it and I think my attitude is That went along with it. And the way that I deal with people, kept me in people's consciousness, you know what I mean, which I'm so fucking grateful for, you know what I mean? And like I said, I can't speak for everybody, but I'm sure what it's done for me, it's done for everybody, you know what I mean? I know one thing I want to say, and I don't want to say which person, but... We used talking about some people didn't know if it was a scam or whatever, you know, a couple people thought was like, yo, I don't. I don't need this. I'm good. You know what I mean? You know, like a hand, like I don't need nobody to give me. Nah, it's not about that. It's not all about that. That ain't about that. That's a... Part of it. Yeah, I mean the thing is the honor the thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in and I got a salute LL Cool J for that too. You know what I mean? He he put us me he put shot rock on the radio when I'm He didn't have to. He didn't have to. And he created a whole lane. He's like, now that's y'all. Go. Monday through Friday, y'all on the air. You know what I mean? So that kind of recognition, it resonates. And when people see important people giving you your props, they feel obligated. You know, I got to say that what this does is. how you just ended it, is it brings recognition. And that's the gift that keeps giving. Because it's done out of love. it kind of inspires more people to think, that we can do things like this too. We got to remember, let's take care of each other. I'll say this. I was... getting reached out. to by a few hip-hop artists for a while, probably the later end of the 90s on, and I would do things for different artists. and won't say it, I won't even mention the names, even up to someone who passed away recently. a musical hip-hop producer, whatever. Like, I was there. And You know, I wonder how many more of us were doing that, but it's on the low. This is on the high. Right. This is on a high on an even bigger level and that that it's you can show it. You can show the world. We're taking care of our own. We're taking care of the thing that took care of us. In Ben's book, he has pieces of lyrics. In one of his books, he has pieces of lyrics. that inspired him. These things are important because if we forget, if we sweep it all under the rug, if you don't know that Puba took Hillfinger to another level, if you don't know... Sprite. Sprite. Son of a... Say this. The fashion industry, period. By the way, that's exactly why I wrote The Tanning of America. It was specifically so that all of the things that hip-hop created... And your book, when you talk about at the concert, at the Run DMC concert, when everybody holds up their Adidas... - What that did for Adidas. - What it did for Adidas, when-- He might go. Adidas was kind of dead at the time. Dead. Oh yeah, 2% market share in America. 2% market share in America. And Three quarters of that 2% was coming from the Northeast region. And all they knew is that why everybody up there buying this one specific skew and why they throwing away the shoelaces? Hip hop, baby. But Puba... Obey your thirst is his line. First things first, obey your thirst. That's his line. That's their tagline. Like it no one would ever pay attention to these things. These guys are like Pioneers above and beyond hip hop, they created The culture, around the music that lives on to this day, the fashion, the language, the brands that have... only exists as a result of their contribution. I love Tommy Hilfiger. Tommy Hilfiger is a great guy. He's done a lot. Um, with artists. He should be part of... contributing to paid in full. If it wasn't for... hip hop for sure he was dead in the water they were selling ties he was [45:00] He says that. They were actually selling ties. He was trying to be Ralph Lauren. And they were like, you're not Ralph LaVrenda. And on his way, and listen, on his way home, As he lived in Greenwich, when you leave the city, you can obviously get to Greenwich by... the traditional way, taking the highway, or you can cut through Harlem. and get up to Westchester. So he's cutting through Harlem. And he's seen everybody wearing their pants low. And that Calvin Klein Top of the Calvin Klein brief show. And literally that's where he got the idea to make underwear and use that - Where would Calvin, the Tommy. - Yeah, Tommy there. The top of the underwear, whatever this shit is called. Yeah, the elastic band. And he put Tommy Hilfiger there. It made the waistband bigger. thicker. so that you could really see it. And that's how the whole thing got going. Seriously. That's literally, and he talks about it and he'd seen it driving through Harlem. That's crazy. And that's when the brand took off. It went from, you know, selling ties that wasn't working to now selling ties. Streetwear. the hottest fashion trend in the world. streetwear that Louis Vuitton sells. designed by Skateboard P. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. God bless and Virgil. And these are the things that these guys... have been a part of contributing. Right. that they never got their fair share of. And by the way, What we're doing is a... We're just trying to get momentum. We're not trying to solve the world's problem here. We need others. to either come and donate to the organization for sure, or start other organizations that also have the same motive. To help. Celebrate. Give back to. the guys who have helped contribute to your business. contribute to inspire you with love and respect Yes. With love and respect. Yes, sir. And actually, I want to tell a story because... the the love and respect part goes beyond even the award so Scarface had a heart condition. And, you know, look, he comes from a place where people don't even really go to the doctor, let alone go in for open heart surgery, which is what he needed. And he was on the phone with my wife, Felicia. and she knew he was scared. And she flew out to Houston. to see him. before he went to the doctor, and he didn't want to go in. And he's like, no, I don't want to go to the doctor. I'm not going to the doctor. And she said... Nah. And he calls her the bully. She's about five feet tall ways, maybe a buck or five. And she says, no, I'm taking you to the doctor right now. And. that Right as I got into the doctor, his aorta burst. And they got him in just in time. and saves his life. And That doesn't happen without her caring so much about him. And a lot of what the foundation is about, because she runs it, she's the president, is how much... She cares about these artists and how much, you know, She's committed to taking care of them. Regardless, Regardless, like forget the award, forget what the actual contract is and all that kind of thing. She's going to do that work. And that creates the whole culture of the thing. which is why that feeling at the ward is so different. - Agreed. I have nothing more serious. - I have to say that. - And I have to, you know. Definitely kudos to Felicia. Nothing more serious than that. She makes it, she makes it, you know. Like it's love involved here. Yeah. And like it's like beyond the award, beyond the check. You know what I mean? It's not over. You get a call. How are you doing? How's your wife? You know what I mean? Oh, she's sick. Give me her address. She said the next day flowers come. You know what I mean? The next day, like some glasses from Dior glasses. That's how Felicia is. And it's not about what's going on. She'll randomly call you just to check on you and see if everything's good. And that's the difference between this and anything I've ever experienced. in an award, grant, found it, or anything like that. You know, the love, the genuine love. I don't know. I just can't speak enough about the event that's coming up, the next Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards. It's going to be monumental. And if you haven't been abreast of what's going on with Paid in Full, definitely check in. Okay. [50:00] this year and then look back at what we've done in the past four years. All right. And then get on board. Don't play with it. Stay with it. Yeah. Yes, sir. Nah, Steve, I'm curious if you could talk about when was the moment you knew that you and Ben were going to be friends for life? Steve, Invited me to a dinner years ago. That's crazy. Oh, yeah. It was an interesting room of people, right? He put together a great room, great restaurant. It was Mr. Chow's downtown. Mr. Chow's. Half-bye, Freddie. So this room was dope, right? And he put this together. And I heard about Ben through him. And I met Ben right there. And, you know, just our love for music. And love for food was was a thing that kind of that connected me and Ben at that point. And we've just been cool. Yeah, since then. Yeah, we're... Some of my best times listening to... Rakim with Nas. By the way, Nas hears things in Rakim's songs that nobody else hears. It's unbelievable. And then listening to Prince, we listened to Prince together. We break it down. Yeah, and going to visit Triple OG, Quincy Jones together. music fans who just, Nas is like as, Great an artist as he is. He's that great music fan. By the way, I was at Quincy's house when he had just moved into the house. Yeah. Or redecorated the house, rather. And it was me... and Chris Tucker. And he goes... And he was showing us the... the rehearsal tape, the casting tapes for... Color Purple? Color Purple. Right. He's showing us. Yeah. And There was... What? Whoopi Goldberg. And she's talking... She's just talking to camera like this, whatever, whatever. And then she starts reading the script. And then within a second starts crying. I was like, it was the first time I seen acting, and I was like, I mean, I knew for a fact, this is fucking a skill that is beyond. She was like regular, normal talking, and he said, all right, and Steven Spielberg's holding the camera. This is that. Boom, she just starts crying. So anyhow... She was great in that role, by the way. Yeah. So she just starts crying. So anyhow. Um... Chris Tucker, we were all blown away by just like that, that fact that she did that. And we started talking about a bunch of different shit. And I talk about bring up Nas. and Naz is that. Oludar. Yo, this guy gets up. And Quincy Jones, at that age was still moving very quickly. Like he just was like a very, like a quick guy. Quickly went and go grab, went to a bunch of vinyls and came back And he showed me a picture of him with Nas' dad in Saint-Tropez in the 60s. That's amazing. I was like, holy shit. I knew Nas' dad was... Look, obviously a jazz legend. But I didn't know at what level it was that these guys were running around. He tells me he would tell me stories of people he'd been around, but I didn't listen. I'm like, oh, yeah, OK, pop. Yeah, my pop told me about him to me. The song Juicy came out. He's like, yeah, that's my man. I'm like, come on. You probably met him in passing. You know what I'm saying? I ain't thinking nothing about it. What year was that? 83, 84 or something. He's like, "Yo." your dad is my man and I said you know I didn't believe him when he told me that not that he's a liar or anything but I didn't know it was like y'all were like that he's like that's my guy man I was like yo you don't understand Juicy Fruit was the biggest song in the world so how could I believe that at the time I'm a kid I don't know I think he's just trying to make me feel good or something like that but uh he knows he knew a lot of people he's even when he was younger man And Quincy was, Quincy knew everybody. That's going to be you. No, no, no. That's definitely going to be him. Everybody knows. Everybody knows. Your kids. Yeah, we know. The fact that Olu... Now, you gotta understand, like... Like in anything else, you know, the DNA thing, right? Your dad's a famous football player, right? The son, this. I didn't know. I mean, obviously I know Nas is a brilliant artist. I had no idea. The connection was that his dad, was that level of brilliant. I didn't know it was that level of brilliant that Quincy Jones within a second [55:00] go find a picture of them together. And I'm like, these guys were in Saint-Tropez. in the 60s doing their thing. The whole thing was like profound to me, that whole evening of going from the color purple to Oludara and then reflecting on the fact that Nas comes from this great lineage of talent. Yeah, they come from Mississippi, my pops. He comes from Natchez, Mississippi, and his dad was in a band, and it's just music in the family. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. So one more time. Paid in full. Paid in full. Foundation.org. All your money goes directly to the artist. Two and a half times. Put up that bread. We imagine two and a half times to one. And it is... Everybody who's ever been to it will tell you it's the greatest charitable event in the world. There's nothing like it. I guarantee nobody's ever gone and not had a great time. And a time that will be a memory for the rest of your life. All right. All right. Thank you, guys. That was great. Thanks for listening to this episode of the A16Z podcast. If you liked this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, and share it with your friends and family. For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Follow us on X and A16Z and subscribe to our Substack at a16z.substack.com. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode. and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast. For more details, including a link to our investments, please see a16z.com forward slash disclosures. you Thank you.