Harvey Adds 1,000 Staff in Year as Legal AI Startup Drops Consensus

法律AI初创公司Harvey年增千人，摒弃共识决策模式 要将企业级AI团队规模扩充至千人以上，必须让优秀人才摒弃完美主义并绕过共识，转而依赖快速迭代与个人判断。 Maggie Landers详细介绍了Harvey如何打造一家旨在变革法律行业的AI原生公司，并在12个月内将员工规模从约300人扩充至1,000人以上。为了在大规模人员涌入的情况下保持行进速度，该公司主动抛弃完美主义的“尖子生”习惯，敦促团队重进展轻完美，并围绕极简、果断和“任务尚未完成”的核心价值观开展运作。联合创始人Winston Weinberg和Gabriel Pereyra推行极度透明的机制，直接向全公司共享董事会幻灯片和坦诚的备忘录，以此推动扁平化、高能动性的工作环境。随着Harvey向全球多个工程和市场拓展枢纽扩张，其成功取决于赋予员工高度的自主权，以及在无需官僚式共识的情况下执行任务所需的敏锐个人判断力。 Harvey在一年内经历了极速扩张，新入职员工超过1,000人，年底总规模达到约2,000人，其中逾70%的员工是在1月1日之后加入的。 (1:46) 为支持覆盖16个市场的全球企业级业务扩张，Harvey在12个月内将其专职人才招聘团队从16人扩充至80人。 (24:45) 该公司针对400多个开放职位对应聘者进行筛选，采用标准化的现场价值观评估环节，重点考察果断性、极简思维和“任务尚未完成”的心态。 (29:45) 工程、产品与设计（EPD）中心已从旧金山拓展至纽约、多伦多和班加罗尔，并辅以专注于本土化法律工程及市场拓展的国际分支办事处。 (35:00)

Scaling enterprise AI at Harvey relies on high employee autonomy, direct executive access, and a conscious rejection of perfectionism in favor of rapid execution, according to talent leader Maggie Landers. Hypergrowth Velocity and Discarding Perfectionism (1:46) Founded in 2022 by Winston Weinberg and Gabriel Pereyra, Harvey celebrated its fourth anniversary while expanding at an unprecedented rate. Landers, who joined as an employee in the 300s, notes that the company added more than 1,000 employees within a single year, with over 70% of the workforce joining after January 1st and headcount projected to reach roughly 2,000 by year-end. This intake frequently leaves recruiters, hiring managers, and department heads all new to the firm at the same time, forcing teams to discard legacy playbooks from previous employers and adapt in real time. Succeeding at this pace requires overcoming the perfectionism common to high-achieving legal and tech professionals. Because Harvey is developing novel workflows rather than established products, employees operate on compressed cycles where failing fast, gathering market feedback, and course-correcting take precedence over crafting polished, error-free work. Landers asserts that rather than fostering a cutthroat dynamic, this environment encourages deep collaboration and rapid reps, contrasting it with bureaucratic corporate structures. Flat Leadership and Radical Organizational Transparency (12:00) Harvey maintains high operational velocity by bypassing traditional corporate hierarchies. Rather than preparing decks weeks in advance for formal executive reviews, employees communicate with founders Winston and Gabe directly over Slack for immediate input. The executive suite—including COO Katie Burke, VP of Product Anique Drumwright, Head of Marketing Rachel Hepworth, and CISO Brooks Evans—operates as hands-on collaborators rather than distant figureheads. To preserve trust and context as the firm expands across domestic and international markets, the founders employ radical transparency practices. Weinberg shares unvarnished memos outlining market developments, predictions, and operational failures directly to general Slack channels. Harvey’s interns host company-wide Ask Me Anything sessions to ask uninhibited questions, while full board presentation decks and follow-up discussion channels are published to all employees immediately following board meetings. Evaluating Culture via Decisiveness, Simplicity, and Humility (29:45) To handle over 400 open requisitions and support expansion into 16 global markets, Landers expanded the recruiting team from roughly 16 to 80 members within 12 months. Across diverse technical and sales interview pipelines, Harvey anchors its candidate assessment in a mandatory onsite values interview testing three core principles: decisiveness, simplicity, and 'job's not finished.' Decisiveness reflects Weinberg's mantra that 'we don't take the square root of the weather,' demanding individual judgment and a bias toward action over paralysis by analysis or consensus-seeking committees. Simplicity mandates shipping minimum viable solutions instead of overbuilding, while 'job's not finished'—inspired by Kobe Bryant—encourages humility, open debate, and continuous refinement. Landers notes recruiting prioritizes transparently showcasing the company's high-ambiguity 'teenage' phase so candidates who prefer predictable, settled environments can opt out. Jurisdictional Immersion and Global Office Strategy (35:00) Unlike pure foundation model labs or software wrapper tools, Harvey operates deeply embedded within legal practice. To honor the profession's exacting standards and local regulatory nuances, the company incorporates customer testimonials at the start of all-hands meetings and integrates former practicing attorneys throughout the company as applied legal researchers, legal innovation partners, and sales-aligned legal engineers. Geographically, Harvey concentrates its Engineering, Product, and Design hubs across San Francisco, New York, Toronto, and Bengaluru, while deploying regional outposts in financial and legal centers such as London, Dublin, Paris, Madrid, Milan, Sydney, Singapore, Chicago, and Dallas. While the San Francisco headquarters observes a three-day hybrid guideline driven by organic attendance rather than badge-tracking, Landers emphasizes that individual judgment remains the linchpin across all offices, allowing employees to operate autonomously without squandering executive trust. Harvey’s operational model depends on sustaining startup-level trust and speed through its transition into a multi-thousand-person global firm. The primary operational test remains whether incoming employees can consistently balance high autonomy and rapid experimentation with the rigorous judgment demanded by a conservative, highly regulated legal vertical.

法律人工智能初创企业 Harvey 招聘负责人 Maggie Landers 指出，重构法律底层工作流需要超越常规软件封装模式的高速迭代；在团队一年内激增千人的扩张中，公司依靠极度透明的扁平化沟通、破除优等生完美主义的容错文化，以及高度授权但重在个人判断力的信任机制来维持组织战斗力。 人员极速倍增下的文化凝聚与未完成心态 (1:46) Harvey 迎来创立四周年之际，其估值、员工规模与产品覆盖面均实现跳跃式增长。Maggie Landers 透露，自己作为工号在 300 多号的员工入职仅一年多，期间公司已新增超过 1000 名员工，当年底团队规模预计将接近 2000 人，目前超过 70% 的在职员工都是在当年 1 月 1 日之后加入。为配合年内开拓 16 个全球市场的业务目标，人才招聘团队本身也在 12 个月内由约 16 人迅猛扩展至 80 人，且全公司常态化维持着 400 多个在招岗位。 面对新主管、新招聘官与新团队成员多方同时磨合的结构性挑战，Harvey 坚守“工作尚未完成”（Job's not finished）这一核心价值观。Landers 表示，团队内部不会沉溺于过往经验或阶段性胜利，Slack 全球市场渠道虽会实时同步产品与销售成果，但全员迅速将视线转回未来目标。这种自我筛选与对内在驱动力的考核，确保了即便海量新员工涌入，组织依然维持着早期创业公司般的敏捷与凝聚力。 破除优等生包袱与行动先于完美的价值考核 (6:05) 由于 Harvey 探索的是前所未有的法律垂直工作流，公司需要大量吸纳来自顶尖律所、大型科技企业或科研机构的高精尖人才。然而，这类往往具备耀眼履历的“全 A 等生”在进入高频迭代环境时常面临心理摩擦。Landers 强调，由于缺乏现成行业规范，员工必须放下自负与对绝对完美的执念，接受频繁试错并在实践中反推打法，追求“进展胜于完美”（progress over perfection）。 这一理念被深度植入所有岗位的标准化现场价值观面试中，重点考核三项特质：果断（Decisiveness）、简约（Simplicity）以及谦逊精进的“工作尚未完成”。联合创始人 Winston Weinberg 常以“我们不对天气求平方根”告诫团队杜绝过度分析导致的决策瘫痪。公司明确反对耗时冗长的数百人共识机制，倡导员工依靠最小可行解快速交付市场验证，并在犯错后坦诚复盘，以此促成开放协作而非内部恶性竞争。 创始人高透明度示范与基于信任的自主授权 (12:00) 在管理模式上，联合创始人 Winston Weinberg 与 Gabriel Pereyra 展现出兼顾宏观战略与微观执行的双重穿透力。Harvey 摒弃了传统大企业动辄等待数周的层级汇报壁垒，员工可通过 Slack 直接联系创始人并获得即时反馈。每次董事会结束后，管理层会向全员公布完整的投资者演示材料并举行答疑，实习生还会受托主持全员 AMA，促使年轻员工直接提出尖锐问题。此外，创始人每逢 AI 行业出现巨变或季度复盘时，都会撰写详尽备忘录，公开讨论失策教训与盲目侥幸之处。 Weinberg 明确将“信任”列为公司扩张过程中绝不妥协的文化基石。Landers 说明，这种信任直接转化为员工推进工作时的巨大自主权，使个体能够清晰感知自身对大局的直接影响。但她同时警示，高自主权对个体的“判断力”（judgment）提出了严苛要求——优秀的判断力不是拉扯 20 人的委员会求取平庸共识，而是敏锐感知何时该独立决断、何时应在关键节点精准引入对应的领域专家进行把关。 法律专业深度融合与全球研发销售网格布局 (20:00) Landers 指出，改造法律行业这一社会底层运行支柱，与开发轻量级 AI 包装层或通用大模型具有本质差异。为保持对法律行业严格标准的敬畏，Harvey 每次全员大会均以真实客户证言开场，并在各业务线广泛嵌入前执业律师——包括产品团队的应用法律研究员、面向律所高管的法律创新合伙人，以及直接配合销售的法律工程师与产品专家，确保技术切实击中一线痛点。 在地域分布上，工程、产品与设计（EPD）团队已从 18 个月前的旧金山单点，发展为涵盖旧金山、纽约、多伦多与印度班加罗尔的四大全球研发枢纽。针对伦敦、都柏林、巴黎、马德里、米兰、悉尼及新加坡等区域前哨，Harvey 则重点部署本地法律工程与市场团队，以应对复杂的属地司法程序与语言差异。尽管旧金山总部推行每周三天在岗的混合办公制，但紧贴法务核心区的实体协作与高频互动，为大批新人提供了远程办公难以复制的高速成长曲线。 Landers 将当前的 Harvey 描述为介于零到一混沌期与成熟大企业官僚期之间的“青少年阶段”。这种环境不仅对渴望按部就班规范的求职者构成挑战，也留下了一个核心管理命题：在向数千人规模扩张及覆盖多元司法管辖区的过程中，组织能否在不设立层级路障的前提下，长期保持以信任驱动的高速试错与精细判断平衡。

## Background 本期内容由 a16z 的 Katie Kirsch 与法律 AI 领头羊 Harvey 的人才副总裁 Maggie Landers 于 2026 年 9 月 27 日在播客平台发布。节目聚焦 Harvey 在一年内扩招超 1,000 名员工、以“AI 速度”狂飙突进的背景下，组织内部如何平衡高强度与高自主权，以及如何在剧烈扩张中守护团队文化与凝聚力。 ## TL;DR Maggie Landers 详细拆解了 Harvey 在迈向 2,000 人规模和全球 16 个市场过程中的组织演进策略。面对 70% 以上全员皆新人的现状，Harvey 践行“果断决策”、“大道至简”与“使命未竟”三大核心价值观，引导原本习惯零失误的“优等生”员工卸下精英包袱，拥抱快速试错与敏捷迭代。节目深入探讨了创始人极度透明的沟通机制、现场办公的高效协同优势，以及在高度放权的环境中，员工如何依靠敏锐的“判断力”在保持闪电般推进速度的同时维系团队间的信任纽带。 ## Atmosphere & style 对话充满创业一线的蓬勃朝气与真实的实战质感，语气真诚、务实且毫无官僚说教。两位对谈者在默契的互动中既坦承了急速规模化带来的混沌与高压挑战，又生动展现出置身历史级技术浪潮中心的兴奋感与团队战斗情谊。整场交流既像是一堂高管层面的深度组织管理大师课，又散发着科技先锋战壕中那种专注、清醒且敢于破局的冒险家风貌。 ## Bulletin - `00:00` Harvey 在成立四周年之际迎来爆炸式人员扩张，自 Maggie Landers 加入以来已新增逾 1,000 名员工，全公司超过 70% 的员工工龄不足一年，预计年底总人数将达约 2,000 人。 - `25:00` 为支撑进军 16 个全球市场的业务目标，Harvey 的招聘团队在一年内从 16 人激增至 80 人，高管层将人才招聘直接视为业务核心职责而非甩给 HR 的支持性工作。 - `30:00` Harvey 面试设定了统一的“价值观面试”，以果断决策（拒绝过度分析推演）、大道至简（拒绝过度设计）以及“任务还没完成”（始终反思精进）作为核心考察标准。 - `35:00` 研发（EPD）团队已在 18 个月内拓展为旧金山、纽约、多伦多和班加罗尔四大枢纽，并在欧洲和亚太设立由法律工程师和 GTM 构成的分支办公室，以应对本地司法管辖和语言差异。 ## Key takeaways - `00:00` Harvey 奉行“任务还没完成”（Job's not finished）的核心文化，将阶段性胜利仅视作对既有工作的认可，庆祝后随即迅速复位并放眼下一步。 - `05:00` 面对 70% 以上全员新人的现状，旧有大厂经验在新范式前迅速贬值，公司倡导“进度重于完美”（progress over perfection），所有人在同一起跑线上敏捷试错。 - `05:00` 习惯拿全 A 的精英必须打破“全优生包袱”和个人 Ego，接受高频未知探索中“失败多于成功”的现实，通过快速纠错和深层团队协作赢下全局。 - `10:00` 高自主权（Agency）让员工能够直接看到工作在真实市场中的影响闭环，有效消解了超高速与高强度带来的职业消耗感。 - `12:35` 联合创始人 Winston 与 Gabe 保持极高的可触达性与透明度，不仅在 Slack 上即时回复，还公开行业备忘录、复盘弯路并向全员共享董事会 Deck。 - `18:40` Harvey 正步入“青春期”，介于未定型的微型初创团队与高度结构化的大企业之间，不适合追求绝对稳定或享受完全混沌的两极人群。 - `20:00` 作为专注于应用层的 AI 公司，Harvey 深度融合法律行业，每周全员会均以客户证言开场，并吸纳大量前执业律师担任法律工程师与研究员。 - `30:00` 招聘考核推崇“果断决策”（算天气的平方根毫无意义）和“大道至简”，反对 300 人共识驱动的低效文化，鼓励个体在不完全信息下迅速定夺。 - `35:00` 公司拒绝因害怕犯错而增加繁琐流程，将创始人极力守护的“信任”与自主权视作保持组织高速运作的底层基石。 - `35:00` 全球布局不仅是软件落地，更是推动客户深层组织变革，因此研发依托四大枢纽，海外前端则重兵部署懂当地司法管辖与语言的团队。 - `40:00` 混合办公政策采用“胡萝卜胜过大棒”，依靠面对面交流的活力、走廊偶遇协作以及新人加速融入的实际收益来吸引员工到岗，杜绝警察化考勤。 - `45:00` 在缺乏预设规范的快速增长期，最核心的人才特质是具备开拓者心智以及优秀的商业判断力（Judgment），在不拖延决策与不鲁莽冒险之间维系信任。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### `00:00` AI 速度下的野心与“任务尚未完成”的文化 Maggie Landers 加入 Harvey 刚刚一年多，但公司的变化用翻天覆地来形容绝不为过——不仅体现在估值上，更体现在客户规模、团队人数以及产品迭代的惊人飞跃上。尽管公司刚刚庆祝了成立四周年，但内部没有任何人产生“大功告成”的懈怠感，整个团队依旧保持着初创公司那种紧绷而饥渴的敏锐度。Maggie 明确指出：“我认为内部没有任何人觉得自己已经完全成功，或是已经彻底实现了全部潜力。”在她看来，Harvey 团队心里清楚，他们现在所达到的阶段，与他们真正渴望构建的那家伟大企业之间，依然相差甚远。 在谈到公司内部如何平衡高强度工作与庆祝成绩时，Maggie 表示 Harvey 既会郑重其事地大肆庆祝，也会在日常琐碎中给予即时肯定。无论是全球 Go-to-Market（市场拓展）团队专属的胜利战报频道里员工们持续不断的喝彩与互相认可，还是全员齐聚一堂庆祝周年纪念、重要产品发布或业务里程碑，团队从不吝啬掌声。然而，庆祝过后往往是快速的归零与再次出发，因为 Harvey 的核心价值观之一就是“任务还没完成”（Job's not finished）。正如 Maggie 所强调的：“我想说的是，庆祝始终是对我们所完成的出色工作的一种认可，但随后我们立刻就会思考下一步需要做什么。”这种文化并没有让环境变得死气沉沉，反而因为每个人随时随地注入的幽默感而充满活力，但大家始终在向前看。 伴随着业务的狂飙突进，团队规模正在经历极其罕见的爆炸式扩张。Maggie 的员工编号在 300 多号，而自她入职以来，Harvey 已经增加了超过 1,000 名员工；按照目前的增长势头，到今年年底公司总人数极有可能达到约 2,000 人。更令人震撼的数字是：全公司超过 70% 的员工都是在今年 1 月 1 日之后才入职的。如此高比例的新人涌入，让每周的入职培训班（Onboarding classes）规模肉眼可见地持续膨胀。 - 成立年限：Harvey 刚刚迎来四周年纪念日。 - 员工规模增长：Maggie 入职时是 300 多号员工，其在职期间新增员工超过 1,000 人，预计本自然年年底将达到约 2,000 人。 - 新人占比：全公司超过 70% 的员工工龄不足一年（均在今年 1 月 1 日后加入）。 - 核心文化符号：“任务还没完成”（Job's not finished），在庆祝胜利的同时时刻放眼下一个目标。 ### `05:00` 新人带新人：抛弃“全优生包袱”与拥抱敏捷试错 面对如此庞大的新人潮，Harvey 却依然能够保持其独特的组织内核，这很大程度上归功于其精准的用人画像与强烈的自我筛选机制。加入 Harvey 的人大多抱有一种极高的野心，渴望打造具有时代跨度（generational）的产品，这种使命感自然吸引了那些内在驱动力极强、追求深度价值实现的顶尖人才。但新人占绝大多数的现状也带来了前所未有的管理挑战：在招聘端，经常会出现招聘专员（Recruiter）、用人经理（Hiring Manager）和业务主管三个人全部都是刚来不久的新员工的情况。他们必须一边在实践中摸索如何高效协同，一边界定角色的最佳画像，并在很多时候不得不亲手抛弃在老东家行之有效的现成套路，实时摸索最契合 Harvey 当前阶段的打法。 对于这种“完全陌生的面孔在培训另一群全新面孔”的混乱感，Maggie 却看到了其背后的独特优势。作为一家原生 AI 驱动、并且推崇“进度重于完美”（progress over perfection）的公司，老经验在全新范式面前往往会迅速贬值。Maggie 总结道：“你三年前或五年前做过什么，或者你是怎么做的，其实几乎已经无所谓了；我认为更重要的是，你正在积极协作，努力去弄清楚在这个新世界以及当下这个时间节点上，什么才是有意义的。”因为 Harvey 正在试图颠覆法律行业的运作模式，做前人从未做过的事，所以无论资深员工还是新员工，本质上大家都在同一起跑线上进行前所未有的探索。 这种快节奏迫使许多习惯了做“全优生”（A-plus students）的精英迅速打破自我认知。Harvey 的节奏之快，用 Maggie 的话来说就是：“你在 Harvey 一个月做的事情，比你在其他地方一个季度做的还要多；我在这里一年做的事，大概比在别处几年做的还要多。”进入 Harvey 的人无论之前是在传统顶尖律所执业，还是在知名科技公司或学术机构深造，过往往往都是顺风顺水的佼佼者。但面对全新未知领域的海量实验，失败率必然远远高于成功率。他们必须放下过去一定要拿到“A”的执念与精英包袱，学会快速试错、敏捷纠错，为了探索未知而把个人 Ego 放在一边。 面对外界关于 Harvey 节奏过快、文化过于严苛甚至可能“残酷无情”（cutthroat）的担忧，身为职场母亲的 Maggie 给出了不同的视角。她承认外界在加入前都会担心这种高强度会对个人生活产生怎样的冲击，但真正置身其中后，她所体验到的团队协作深度超越了以往任何一家公司。在这里，高要求并没有转化为零和博弈，取而代之的是强烈的集体荣誉感，全员都在致力于作为一支团队共同赢下这场战斗。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Harvey 的文化驱动与人才蜕变机制 accDescr: 展示 Harvey 如何在高强度和高速扩张下通过抛弃旧经验与优等生包袱实现创新与团队共赢。 subgraph MindsetShift ["心智重塑 (Mindset Shift)"] A["传统精英背景<br/>(习惯拿 A / 零犯错)"] -->|"放下 Ego，摆脱优等生包袱"| B["聚焦进度重于完美<br/>(Progress over Perfection)"] B -->|"面对未知，高频实验"| C["快速试错与实时纠偏<br/>(Fail Fast & Correct)"] end subgraph OperatingStyle ["运作与组织范式 (Operating Style)"] D["70%+ 成员全员新人<br/>(含招聘官与管理层)"] -->|"抛弃旧公司成规"| E["实时探索 AI 时代新解法"] E -->|"一个月产出抵一个季度"| F["超高频业务实战积累"] end C --> G["深层团队协作与赢下全局<br/>(Team Win & Support)"] F --> G ``` - 迭代速度对比：员工在 Harvey 单月完成的工作量相当于在其他企业一个季度，一年相当于其他企业的数年。 - 文化破局点：打破“优等生包袱”，接受在海量实验中“失败多于成功”的客观现实，以敏捷迭代代替盲目追求一次性完美。 - 团队氛围真相：打破外界对高压文化等于“内卷互踩”（cutthroat）的误解，强调深度协作与彼此支撑的团队护航机制。 ### `10:00` 个人影响感与高自主权：在高强度与快节奏中平衡职业成就感 Maggie Landers 谈到，员工在 Harvey 能够真切感受到自己的影响力，这种职业成就感让所有高强度的付出变得值得。她坦言：“我认为没有什么比这更糟糕的了：努力工作，却知道你来不来根本无所谓，就像你的工作其实无关紧要、无法带来任何改变或贡献一样。”（“I think that there is nothing worse than, I can't imagine there'd be anything worse than working really hard and knowing it doesn't matter if you show up or not.”）Harvey 即使处在极速扩张期，所招募的每一个人依然是公司迈向下一阶段不可或缺的关键角色。 公司赋予员工极高的自主权（Agency），不会给行动设限，而是让大家放开手脚去奔跑和尝试。这种自主权有效平衡了工作带来的巨大压力：虽然工作节奏飞快、强度极高，但反馈来得同样迅速。这种反馈不仅来自传统的上下级沟通，更来自于亲眼见证自己构建、发布、推广或销售的产品真正推向市场并产生现实影响。这种“快速迭代练习”（reps）的闭环让人持续保持动力。 Katie Kirsch 对此表示赞同，指出看到自己的工作直接推动更大愿景实现是极具感染力的。Maggie 补充道，在 Harvey 几乎找不到任何一个人觉得自己只是庞大机器里随时可被替代的齿轮，每个人都对自己正在攻坚的任务怀有深层的连接感，清楚自己的作为能带来货真价实的改变。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 员工自主权与高影响力的正向循环 accDescr: 展示 Harvey 如何通过高自主权驱动快速落地，并藉由高可见度反馈转化为高成就感。 subgraph 运作模式 A["高自主权与信任<br/>(High Agency)"] --> B["快速执行与上线<br/>(Fast Reps)"] end subgraph 心理与文化回报 B --> C["即时市场反馈与影响<br/>(Real-world Impact)"] C --> D["深层职业成就感<br/>(Career Fulfillment)"] D --> A end ``` ### `12:35` 创始人的双重维度与扁平的高管团队协作范式 Katie 谈到，尽管 Harvey 如今的体量已经远远超出了初创期，但联合创始人 Winston Weinberg 与 Gabriel Pereyra（于 2022 年创立公司）依然深刻塑造着组织文化。Maggie 指出，这两位创始人最独特的特质在于他们能够在“超高战略高度”与“超级微观细节”之间自由切换。 在很多大型或繁琐的公司里，向管理层汇报项目往往意味着要花数周做 Deck，并排期等上八周才能进会汇报。但在 Harvey 完全不是这种作风，Maggie 强调：“在 Harvey，你完全可以在 Slack 上给 Winston 或 Gabe 发消息，并立刻收到回复。”（“You can Slack Winston or Gabe and get a response immediately.”）创始人的平易近人以及对业务细节的深入参与，为整个扩充后的高管团队奠定了行动基调。 随着团队壮大，Harvey 引入了一批兼具战略远见与一线执行力的高管： - 负责市场营销的 Rachel Hepworth - 掌管产品线的 Anique Drumwright - 新任首席信息安全官（CISO）Brooks Evans - 首席运营官（COO）Katie Burke（Maggie 的直接主管） Maggie 指出，向这些具备丰富经验但绝不当局外“挂名领袖”（figureheads）的管理者学习，就像是在上高阶大师课（masterclass），员工加入这里正是看重能与他们作为真正的协作者共同打仗。 ### `15:00` 极度透明与脆弱感：从实习生主持的 AMA 到董事会材料公开 在办公日常中，Winston 和 Gabriel 始终保持着好奇且亲近的姿态。他们不仅会在午餐时随意坐在新员工身边自我介绍，公司还会定期举办创始人 AMA（Ask Me Anything）问答活动。值得一提的是，这些 AMA 通常由 Harvey 的实习生担任主持，由实习生代表全员向两位创始人抛出大家当面不敢问的敏锐问题。 两位创始人性格互补、极具“阴阳”平衡感，但在对外与对内沟通时都保持极高透明度： - **市场观点备忘录**：当行业出现动向时，Winston 会迅速起草一份备忘录直接发在公司的公开大群（General Channel）中，详述他对行业演变的判断与归因。 - **季度复盘备忘录**：每个季度结束后，Winston 同样会写总结备忘录，坦诚指出哪些做对了、哪些没做好。 - **全员开放董事会 Deck**：在董事会会议结束后，公司会把完整的 Board Deck 共享给全体员工审阅，并在 Slack 上开启配套答疑。 Maggie 提到，创始人非常愿意展现“脆弱感”（Vulnerability），公开反思走过的弯路、犯过的错误，甚至直言哪些成绩只是单纯运气好而不是计划内的成果。对于哪里做得很棒、哪里还需要更多尝试、哪些问题尚未解决，整个高层完全没有信息黑箱。 ### `18:40` 进入“青春期”的 Harvey：并非适合所有人的组织生态 针对 Katie 提出的“这样公开、支持、低 Ego 的文化下，为什么有人会不适应甚至离开”，Maggie 打了个生动的比方：Harvey 正在步入“青春期”（teenage years）。 Maggie 剖析，Harvey 当下既不是那个连 Product-Market Fit（PMF，产品市场匹配）都还没有找到的微型初创团队，也不是流程规整、节奏平稳的成熟大型上市公司： - 一部分人更习惯超大型企业的结构化、稳定感和可预测的生活节奏； - 另一部分人则专属于早期探索阶段，更享受在角色完全未定义、连 PMF 都没有的混沌初创期从零摸索。 处在极速扩张期与青春期的 Harvey，处在二者之间独特的临界点上，这必然要求身处其中的人既要能承受高速演进的压力，又要在逐渐清晰的体系中保持强悍的自驱力。 ### `20:00` 介于初创与巨头之间的“青少年期”与法律 AI 的客户中心主义 Maggie Landers 指出，Harvey 当前所处的成长阶段非常微妙：它已经脱离了最初那种“几个人做所有事、一切野蛮生长且毫无定义”的极早期状态，但也没有沦为庞大、僵化、运转如机器的大型成熟企业。这种“青少年期”伴随着清晰的愿景、战略以及能够让人学到极多东西的领导团队，但工作方式并非适合所有人。有人渴望严密的制度与条框，有人则喜欢完全没有约束的混乱。对 Maggie 的招聘团队而言，核心职责就是让候选人在面试过程中尽可能真切地体验到 Harvey 的真实日常，“让度假村的实际样貌与宣传册完全一致”，从而促使人选主动决定加入还是退出。 作为一家专注于应用层（application layer）的 AI 企业，Harvey 与底层大模型公司或纯技术基础设施公司截然不同，它极度依赖并扎根于具体的客户场景。在 Harvey，每周的全员大会（All Hands）都必然以一段真实的客户评价（customer testimonial）开场。为了真正改变法律行业，公司吸纳了大量曾经执业的律师，并将他们分置在各个业务条线中： - 产品团队中设有应用法律研究员（Applied Legal Researchers）； - 业务前线有与各大律所 CIO 及创新社区对接的法律创新合伙人（Legal Innovation Partners）； - 销售团队中则深度配备了法律工程师（Legal Engineers）与法律工程产品专家（Legal Engineering Product Specialists）。 正因如此，Maggie 强调说：“有些公司可能更专注于技术栈的其他层级，比如自己训练基础模型或搭建底层基础设施，他们的技术非常酷，但未必能以同样的方式触达终端客户。”Harvey 吸引的正是那些对法律行业怀有崇高敬意、渴望深入行业肌理、解决具体痛点的实干家。 ### `25:00` 极速扩张的挑战：16 个市场与团队从 16 人到 80 人的飞跃 谈到当初为何加入 Harvey，Maggie 回忆起在上一家公司任职近十年的平稳状态，直到一位猎头打电话给她，笑着说找到了一个完美适合她的职位。吸引她的核心要素有两个： 1. **导师级领导者**：她的直接上级 Katie（时任人事负责人，后升任为 Harvey 的首席运营官 COO）。Katie 的管理广度极高、横跨多项业务重点，能够让她跳出招聘与人力资源的传统框框，学习全方位的商业运营。 2. **极具挑战性的扩张规模**：Harvey 面对的是极度偏向高端市场（upmarket）的法律机构，除了产品研发，更需要重度的人员服务投入。Harvey 针对每个大客户都配备了一支庞大的预售与售后 Go-to-Market 团队，且规划在一年内迅速进军 16 个国家和区域市场。 这种在极高执行质量要求下的超高速规模化扩张（hyperscale），对人才团队而言几乎像是一场不可能完成的任务。Maggie 直言不讳地回忆：“你加入进来，被要求去完成一些你甚至不知道是否可能做到的事情，无论是在有限的时间内，还是在那种你认为理应保持的高质量与执行标准下。但接着你就是直接去做。”a16z 的 Katie Kirsch 对此深有同感，笑称 a16z 新媒体团队也常挂在嘴边一句话：“你直接做就完事了（You can just do things）。” 公司管理层对招聘职能给予了高度战略重视与充分的资源倾斜。他们不把招人看作“甩给人资的脏活”，而是高管本职的一部分。为了支撑全公司的业务扩张，Maggie 的人才招聘团队在短短一年内就从最初的约 16 人扩充到了 80 人。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Harvey 跨市场规模化扩张模式 accDescr: 展示 Harvey 如何从领导层支持扩展到 GTM 与交付团队以覆盖 16 个市场 subgraph Strategy["核心战略与高管支持"] L1["高管将人才招聘视为核心业务职责"] L2["人才团队规模从 16 人扩张至 80 人"] L1 --> L2 end subgraph Execution["GTM 团队与客户服务体系"] G1["售前支持 (Pre-sale)"] G2["售后深度交付 (Post-sale)"] G3["法律工程师与专职顾问随行支持"] G1 --- G2 G2 --- G3 end subgraph Impact["业务落地与全球覆盖"] M1["覆盖 16 个全球市场"] M2["服务高端大客户 (Upmarket Legal)"] M1 --> M2 end L2 --> Execution Execution --> Impact ``` ### `30:00` 400 个在招岗位与三大企业核心价值观 目前 Harvey 在全球各区域、各部门开放了超过 400 个岗位。虽然不同工种的面试流程差异巨大（例如软件工程师的面试环路与销售开发代表 SDR 截然不同），但所有来到现场面试的候选人都必须经历一轮统一的“价值观面试”（Values Interview）。这一轮面试旨在考察人选过去的行为模式，同时也让候选人提问并深度了解 Harvey 的文化底色，考察他们能否适应这种高速迭代。 Maggie 逐一拆解了 Harvey 的三项核心价值观： - **果断决策（Decisiveness）**：联合创始人 Winston 常说一句话：“我们不算天气的平方根（We don’t take the square root of the weather）。”Maggie 解释，这意味着公司宁愿迅速试错并在错误中学习，也绝不把时间浪费在无休止的过度分析与清谈推演上。Harvey 坚决反对“300 个人就一个决策共同权衡”的共识驱动文化，而是赋予个体极高的担当与自主权；“你不可能在保持我们这种推进速度的同时，还畏首畏尾、生怕犯一点错误。” - **大道至简（Simplicity）**：为了与决策力配合并保障速度，Harvey 拒绝过度设计（overbuilding）。团队的行动法则是尽快拿出简单的产品雏形推向真实世界，收集反馈，再据此迭代推进。 - **使命未竟（Jobs Not Finished）**：这不仅代表工作永远在进行中，更代表一种深层次的谦逊。团队始终以开放的心态反思如何把事情做得更好，承认曾经的不足。 Maggie 总结道，这三项价值观紧密结合，要求那些习惯了事事拿全 A 的“优等生们”主动剥离完美主义倾向，换取对行业的巨大影响力与个人职业生涯的超常规成长。这种机制建立了一种高度开放的探讨文化（culture of discourse）：人人都能公开谈论失误，敢于在信息不完全的条件下迅速做出判断并全力以赴，彻底摆脱了职场假面与论资排辈的虚伪姿态。 ### `35:00` 信任、自主权与 Harvey 的全球化办公布局 很多公司在度过早期阶段后，往往会迅速陷入害怕犯错的心理，进而开始人为放慢节奏并制造大量内部摩擦，以防止团队跑得太快而出问题。Maggie Landers 明确强调 Harvey 绝不依凭恐惧来运转。联合创始人 Winston 最近在一次全员问答（AMA）中就曾直言，随着公司不断扩大，他最想守护的核心就是“信任”。Maggie Landers 评价道：“Winston said recently in one of our co-founder AMAs that the thing that he wants to hold onto most as we grow is trust.” 这种对员工的高度信任以及给予员工放手执行、无需层层监督和监管的自主权（agency），正是 Harvey 能够持续吸引杰出人才、维持超高迭代速度并大胆实验的关键基石。虽然人们有时会淡忘这家公司才成立四年，但核心价值观依然在有力支撑着这种敢于犯错、快速前行的敏捷文化。 Katie Kirsch 随后聊起 Harvey 令人惊叹的全球扩张速度。除了旧金山大本营，公司已在纽约、芝加哥、达拉斯、伦敦、都柏林、巴黎、马德里、米兰、悉尼和新加坡等地开设了办公室。Maggie Landers 介绍称，各地的办公室既保留了 Harvey 统一的核心品牌调性与氛围，又兼具贴合当地市场的独特风貌，其职能配置也各不相同： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Harvey全球办事处职能布局架构 accDescr: 展示 Harvey 的四大 EPD 枢纽以及各区域分支办公室的职能配置与本地化角色 subgraph Hubs["四大 EPD (研发) 枢纽"] H1["旧金山 (San Francisco)"] H2["纽约 (New York)"] H3["多伦多 (Toronto)"] H4["班加罗尔 (Bengaluru)"] end subgraph GlobalOffices["全球其他分支办公室"] G1["欧洲 / 亚太各大城市"] G2["法律工程 (Legal Engineering)"] G3["市场拓展 (Go-To-Market)"] G1 --> G2 G1 --> G3 end Hubs -->|"技术与业务协同"| GlobalOffices GlobalOffices -->|"本地化司法实践与语言"| Customers["客户深层次组织变革"] ``` 在工程、产品与设计（EPD）方面，Harvey 在过去约 18 个月内从旧金山单点扩张为四个核心研发枢纽：旧金山、纽约、多伦多以及印度班加罗尔。而其他海外办事处通常由法律工程（Legal Engineering）与市场拓展（GTM）团队驻扎。由于全球各地的法律执业模式差异极大且使用不同语言，Harvey 的目标不仅仅是帮客户部署一套软件，而是协助企业完成深层次的组织变革。因此，派遣深谙当地司法管辖权细节和语言习惯的人才驻扎一线至关重要。此外，Harvey 的职场和不动产团队通常会选址在律所林立的核心商圈，打造高品质空间，以便客户随时登门交流。 - **EPD 研发四大枢纽**：旧金山、纽约、多伦多、班加罗尔。 - **业务核心驱动**：不仅是软件实施，而是通过懂本地司法管辖体系的现场团队推动法律机构的整体转型。 --- ### `40:00` 线下协作的“胡萝卜与大棒”以及法律 AI 的独特性 在招聘策略上，Harvey 并没有将资源单方面倾斜给某一个办公室，而是全盘发力。当进军一个新市场时，团队会采取“蜂拥而上”（swarm）的战术，早期通过密集举办活动深入当地人才市场摸排环境。Maggie Landers 指出，搭建强大的本地创始团队是重中之重，优秀负责人与高质量的员工内推能迅速形成招纳贤才的飞轮效应。 谈到旧金山办公室的日常运作时，Maggie Landers 透露公司推行的是每周三天到岗的混合办公制度。不过，团队在执行该政策时完全是靠吸引力而非强制施压，也就是典型的“胡萝卜胜过大棒”。Maggie Landers 强调：“It is very much 'carrot versus stick' when it comes to that hybrid in-office policy. We are not a place that has to do policing in terms of how many days a week have you come in.” 办公室内有一种充满活力的蜂鸣感（buzz），大家在走廊偶遇、即兴提问、互通有无，协作极其紧密。鉴于公司绝大多数员工都比较新、处于入职融入期，能够坐在比自己早来六个月甚至四周的同事旁边随时请教，其学习效率远非居家办公可比，很多人甚至自愿每周来四到五天。 对于有志加入 Harvey 的候选人，Maggie Landers 提醒大家必须跳出常规视角去审视法律行业的 AI 变革。改变法律行业与改造客服中心、搭建通用 AI 框架截然不同，虽然 Harvey 现在也开始自研模型，但其业务重心与 Anthropic、OpenAI、ElevenLabs 或 Sierra 差异极大。Maggie Landers 解释道：“Understanding what we are truly trying to achieve and how that is going to make your job different than working at Anthropic or at OpenAI or at ElevenLabs or at Sierra, I think is super important because it will be different.” 法律是人类现代文明的基石，有着数百年甚至上千年的漫长演进历史，同时伴随着极其严苛的数据安全与合规要求。候选人必须真正理解并渴望去重塑这一底层行业，而不是仅仅奔着泛 AI 概念而来。 - **出勤机制**：每周三天混合制，依靠空间吸引力与协作效率自然驱动，杜绝考勤警察化管理。 - **新人融入优势**：密集面对面交流能够让处于 ramp-up 阶段的新人快速向资深同事汲取经验。 - **行业壁垒认知**：明确区分垂直法律大模型与通用基础模型厂商在安全合规及业务深度上的不同追求。 --- ### `45:00` 快速成长期的“击球机会”、混沌中的开拓精神与决断力 针对候选人的动机，Maggie Landers 直言快速成长的公司固然极具吸引力，因为“当一家公司在飞速增长时，你获得的击球机会（at-bats）远多于停滞或萎缩的公司”。但她也提醒求职者认清现实：Harvey 本质上依然是一家初创企业。很多新加入的人往往会索求某些成熟规范的流程，然而这些流程在现阶段根本不存在。Maggie Landers 认为最契合 Harvey 的人才特质，是那种渴望成为流程“开创者”的内在激情，他们面对混沌甚至噪音不仅不会沮丧，反而能从中汲取能量。成功的员工身上必须带有一点“特立独行的冒险家精神”（adventurous kind of maverick attitude），并且具备强大的驾驭未知与模糊性的能力（managing ambiguity）。 Katie Kirsch 总结这就像在寻找能够一同跳进战壕、卷起袖子解决重大未知难题的战友。Maggie Landers 对此深表认同，并补充了另一项至关重要却极难量化考核的能力——“判断力”（judgment）。在 Harvey 这样一个推崇高自主权、行动迅速且击球机会极多的组织里，员工必须具备敏锐的第六感。Maggie Landers 形象地描绘道：“Having that judgment in an environment that does move really quickly, where there is a lot of agency and autonomy is kind of a critical part of success and also being able to maintain that trust.” 这种判断力并非在点击“发送”或上线前去向二十个人征求意见造成推诿延误，而是在脑海中自然亮起警示灯：在关键时刻能精准感知到底哪一位核心同事必须事先过目，或者在系统上线前快速完成那一处最关键的抽检。正是这种恰到好处的分寸感与判断力，才让员工在高速运转与充分放权的环境中保持高效，并长久维系团队间珍贵的信任纽带。 - **初创心态**：不抱怨流程缺失，而是将空白和混沌视作施展拳脚的机遇。 - **特立独行的冒险精神**：具备在高度模糊和动态变化中独立开拓业务的耐受力。 - **敏锐的判断力（Judgment）**：在“过度请示导致效率低下”与“鲁莽推进造成系统风险”之间找到最佳平衡，守护彼此间的信任。 ## Notable quotes > `30:00` 你不可能在保持我们这种推进速度的同时，还畏首畏尾、生怕犯一点错误。 — Maggie Landers > `05:00` 你三年前或五年前做过什么，或者你是怎么做的，其实几乎已经无所谓了；我认为更重要的是，你正在积极协作，努力去弄清楚在这个新世界以及当下这个时间节点上，什么才是有意义的。 — Maggie Landers > `00:00` 庆祝始终是对我们所完成的出色工作的一种认可，但随后我们立刻就会思考下一步需要做什么。 — Maggie Landers ## Mentioned Harvey, Maggie Landers, Katie Kirsch, Winston Weinberg, Gabriel Pereyra, Rachel Hepworth, Anique Drumwright, Brooks Evans, Katie Burke, a16z, Anthropic, OpenAI, ElevenLabs, Sierra, Slack ## Video description a16z’s Katie Kirsch sits down with Harvey VP of Talent Maggie Landers to discuss what happens inside a company growing at AI speed, and how you preserve culture while adding more than 1,000 employees in a year. Maggie explains why Harvey prioritizes progress over perfection, how its values of simplicity, decisiveness, and “job’s not finished” shape the way people work, and why moving quickly requires giving employees significant trust and autonomy. For people accustomed to being the “A student,” that can mean learning to experiment, make mistakes, and course-correct quickly. They also get into how Harvey identifies people who can thrive in that environment, what changes when most of your company is relatively new, the role its founders play in maintaining culture, and why judgment becomes increasingly important when employees are given the freedom to move fast. [Source](https://mgln.ai/e/1344/afp-848985-injected.calisto.simplecastaudio.com/3f86df7b-51c6-4101-88a2-550dba782de8/episodes/aa2d03fd-277b-4e4f-9bdc-153aca2190a0/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=3f86df7b-51c6-4101-88a2-550dba782de8&awEpisodeId=aa2d03fd-277b-4e4f-9bdc-153aca2190a0&feed=JGE3yC0V)

[30:00] Maggie Landers: 你不可能在保持我们这种推进速度的同时，还畏首畏尾、生怕犯一点错误。 [5:00] Maggie Landers: 你三年前或五年前做过什么，或者你是怎么做的，其实几乎已经无所谓了；我认为更重要的是，你正在积极协作，努力去弄清楚在这个新世界以及当下这个时间节点上，什么才是有意义的。 [0:00] Maggie Landers: 庆祝始终是对我们所完成的出色工作的一种认可，但随后我们立刻就会思考下一步需要做什么。

[10:00] Maggie Landers: I can't imagine there'd be anything worse than working really hard and knowing it doesn't matter if you show up or not. [20:00] Maggie Landers: Our goal, especially on my team, as a recruiting team is to make sure the resort matches the brochure. [29:45] Maggie Landers: We’d rather make mistakes and learn than overanalyze and spend all this time pontificating on how is this going to go or what do you think of this thing or that thing? [1:46] Maggie Landers: I don’t think there’s any part of us that feels that we are anywhere close to the company we aspire to build.

[0:00] Transforming the legal industry is very different than trying to transform customer support or build an AI harness or create a model. You're going to do more in a month at Harvey than you would in a quarter somewhere else. There's a lot of experimentation, so you're going to fail more than you're necessarily going to get it right. And so I think the emphasis is on both failing fast and correcting to make something or build something that has never been built before. nothing inspires people more than actually seeing their impact in the world and knowing that even being part of a really large organization, they still feel like everything they're doing is working towards a much bigger vision. The right sort of mentality for Harvey is that passion to be part of creating it. What about the legal industry gets you so fired up? I think that what happens when you add more than 1000 employees in a year, but still want to operate like a To discuss how the company is approaching hiring and culture as it scales, Maggie explains Harvey's focus on progress over perfection, giving employees the autonomy to move quickly, make mistakes, and learn. They also discuss what Harvey looks for in new hires and why succeeding in a fast-moving environment requires comfort with ambiguity and strong judgment. Welcome to the A6NZ podcast. I'm so excited. Yes, I'm a little over one year. It's been insane, not just the valuation, but the company growth, the customer growth, our growth, I think our product growth, our But I would say that We don't take any of it for granted. I don't think there's anyone internally who feels like we've fully made it or actualized our potential. It definitely still exists. Feels like a startup. We just celebrated our fourth birthday as a company. Congratulations. Happy birthday, Harvey. Yes. Happy birthday, Harvey. But... Yeah, I don't think there's any part of us that feels that we are anywhere close to the company we aspire to build. Yeah. Are you celebrating wins in any way or it's just hard work, pedals to the metal? I would say we definitely are. I think we celebrate in big ways. I think we celebrate in small ways. I think that whether it's sort of our global go-to-market company sort of wins channel where folks are constantly sort of celebrating the accomplishments and sharing kudos. I think we come together as a company for celebrations like this anniversary, product launches, milestones, but we also have... a jobs not finished culture. It's one of our core values and so I would say the celebration is always... an acknowledgement of the great work that we've done, but then also, We're thinking about what we need to do next and I think that's just a very kind of core... fundamental part of what Harvey is about. I do think the team likes to have fun and there's a lot of humor. in everything, kind of injected in everything that we do. But We're always thinking ahead. Yeah. And I think you mentioned earlier, so are you employee number, is it 340? I'm somewhere in the 300s. Yeah. I'm somewhere in the 300s. And yeah, we've added over 1,000 employees since I've joined. And we'll likely be about 2,000 employees before that. the end of this calendar year, which is insane. Oh, more than 70% of the company started after January 1st of this year. Wow. Wow. What does that feel like on the inside? Is so many new faces? Are you all in person? Yeah. What's it like? A lot of new faces. Those onboarding classes just feel big. They're growing. Yeah. They're growing for sure. I would say... It's still... feels like Harvey and I can explain what that means but I do think that we've done a good job of understanding kind of what make somebody successful at Harvey and looking for a lot of those sort of characteristics when we go to market and we bring new people on board. I also think that we have a Pretty good. kind of self-selection in that I think folks know that Harvey is a really ambitious company and that we are [5:00] looking to be generational in what we build. And I think that also attracts folks who are very sort of for the most part, intrinsically motivated and want to do something super fulfilling. But at the same time, it creates... a ton of unique challenges. When the majority of folks on board are relatively new, under one-year tenure, I think you have this unique dynamic where, especially on the recruiting side, I see situations where a recruiter and a hiring manager and a leader are all relatively new. Yeah. And kind of actively working together to try to figure out how to run the process effectively, what the right fit for the role is going to be. And in many cases, leaving behind what worked at their old company and in real time trying to figure out what is going to work at Harvey. The beauty of working at a company like Harvey, both sort of AI-driven, native and frankly, a place that values kind of progress over perfection and wants to move quickly. is that It almost doesn't matter. what you did three years ago or five years ago or how you did it, I think it's more important That you're sort of like actively collaborating and working to figure out what is going to make sense in this new world. And yeah. at this moment in time. We're genuinely trying to transform how... the legal industry works and operates and do something unprecedented. And so, Everyone's experimenting and trying to figure it out for the first time, whether you're a tenured employee or not. It sounds like exciting, but also overwhelming. And you've got completely new faces now training other completely new faces. But you mentioned, I love what you said about Harvey still feels like it's Harvey. It does. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me more about that. I think that Harvey is unique in certain ways. I think our pace is pretty unique. We move very quickly. If you come from an environment that you thought moved quickly, you join Harvey and you're like, wow. Harvey moves fast. Yeah, you're going to do more in a month at Harvey than you would in a quarter. Somewhere else, I'll do more in a year than you probably would. Would. over a few years elsewhere. So you actually have a lot of reps quickly in terms of trying to figure things out and figure out what works. I think... think that Most folks at Harvey have been successful. in whatever... it is that they were doing previously, whether they were practicing law in a more sort of traditional environment, if they worked at a tech company previously, if they came from school or an academic program. And I think that there's a bit of kind of ridding yourself of needing to be an A student when you join Harvey, where most people probably were A students and super- successful at whatever it was that they were doing previously. Because what we're trying to do is... A, like, pretty brand new, and B, there's a lot of experimentation. So you're going to fail more than you're necessarily going to get it right. And so I think the emphasis is on both the failing fast and correcting experimentation and also kind of putting that ego aside for kind of the greater good of figuring out, OK, how do we all work together? to, make something or build something that has never been built before. Yeah, I like this piece around like progress over perfection, especially when you're talking about A-plus students who were used to distinguishing between right and wrong and knowing what it takes to do something well. And they're being thrust into an environment that's growing so fast, they have to almost rewrite the rules as they go. For sure. I also think that what we have to offer is this opportunity to learn and to grow and do something really meaningful. A lot of People before they join, whether they're working parents like I am, if they're sort of concerned about this like They've heard that it's an intense culture. I think folks... have questions about sort of how Harvey might impact their lifestyle. What's it going to be like? Is it really cut the road? Is it really intense? And the reality is, I have seen more sort of true collaboration and teamwork at, than I would have ever imagined, probably more so anywhere. that I've ever kind of worked, people are really... looking to support their colleagues. There is a big emphasis on us sort of winning as a team. And I also believe that [10:00] what we're doing and the impact each individual is able to have. creates this sort of career fulfillment that makes... The... Effort. required. to put in worth it. I think that there is nothing worse than, I can't imagine there'd be anything worse than working really hard and knowing it doesn't matter if you show up or not. Like if that work doesn't actually matter, if it's not going to contribute, if it's not going to make a difference. And so what we have to offer is this opportunity to really come in, even as we're growing so quickly and know that every single person we bring in is so kind of critical. in our ability to get to the next level. And we give folks a lot of agency. So you're not going to be held back. You're going to be able to sort of run and do things, which I think makes it kind of balances out that Yes, it's intense and yes, it moves fast, but at the same time, you're going to get a lot of feedback, you know, both. Feedback in the traditional sense, but also just feedback from like an impact perspective in seeing whatever it is that you build or that you launch or that you market or that you sell kind of get out into the world. And those reps happen quickly. Yeah, it's amazing. It's like nothing inspires people more than actually seeing their impact totally in the world and knowing that even being part of a really large organization, they still feel like everything they're doing is working towards a much bigger vision. There is nobody. I would be hard pressed to find anybody at Harvey who feels like they're part of a machine that could be running. without them in the same way. I think everybody feels deeply connected to whatever it is that they're working on and knows that, you know, they have an opportunity to Make a real. impact on whatever, whatever that is. It's amazing. You know, I often think that the culture of a company comes from, I mean, initially, the founders. And obviously, Harvey is so much bigger than just the founders today, but they're still a massive part of what Harvey is. And, you know, Winston and Gabriel only started Harvey in 2022, which was four years ago. And now we're When you think about their leadership style, you know, what is, What does that look like? What kinds of leaders... are they and how do they show up in the company to help create that culture for everyone. I think they definitely set the tone. They're both incredibly... Brilliant. and driven and motivated, which I think you expect from founders. What I would say is unique about Winston and Gabe is this quality to be both sort of Very, very, like operate at a very high level, strategic, strategic, future... facing altitude, And then... get super into the details. and be able to do both. They... R. very involved in the day-to-day. Very. Harvey is not a place where in order to present something to the executive team or to the founders... you're submitting a DAC and waiting to get on. some calendar to present. to the exec team eight weeks out and have it be sort of reviewed and buttoned up. you can Slack Winston or Gabe and get a response immediately. Amazing, yeah. That is attitude and I think the accessibility and frankly the fact that they are still so in the details, shapes, I think, the broader sort of executive... team ethos. So as we've added to the executive team and we have some incredible new leaders on the team. Rachel Hepworth is running marketing. Anique Drumwright on the product side. Brooks Evans is our new CISO. We have brought in some incredible experienced leaders. Katie Burke, COO, my boss, amazing. These folks all have that really really unique combination of strategic vision and, but real day-to-day involvement and execution. So learning from folks who... have both the vision and the vision. And that sort of, detailed understanding of how to run, you know, how to build a product or how to market a product or how to, you know, build world class security into everything we do is super unique. And I think people, a lot of people join to work for one of these leaders because it's essentially [15:00] a masterclass in how to do some of these jobs, not just as figureheads, but as true collaborators. I'm imagining like Winston Gabe you know they're walking around the office, you know, looking over people, you know, what are you working on? You know, that's like the kind of curious mentality. I'm getting, do I have the right vision? Yeah. Like help totally sitting with new hires at lunch, introducing themselves. They also do founder AMAs, which I think is great. We actually have our interns host these, which is amazing seeing them sort of up in front of the company, asking Gabe and Winston, everybody's questions that they might be, might be, uh, too shy to ask in person. Yeah. They have a great dynamic. I think, co-founders tend to have. A bit of a yin and yang. Mm-hmm. And I would describe them as kind of having sort of, a yin and yang. vibe, but... They speak so openly about how they see the company evolving, how they see the space evolving, how they see the space evolving. people feel very close to them because I think they understand what, what, their thought processes because they share it. When something's happening in the market, It's not unusual for Winston to put a memo together quickly with all of his thoughts and put it in the company general channel. And everyone can just read what he thinks is going to happen, why he thinks it's going to happen, what his take on something is. After every quarter, he'll put together a quarterly memo for the whole team on what he thinks worked and didn't, etc. And so I think sharing... that as broadly as we do. it's pretty open. I mean, the company is very open in terms of what the leaders share, We post board decks for the whole company to review after board meetings so they can see what's been shared. in those board meetings and host AMAs in Slack so that people can ask questions or get clarification. I do think that keeps folks very connected to the leaders. As we scale globally, as we add so many folks, it gives you a chance to kind of get inside the, their brains a little bit. Yeah. Thank you. Love that. What's a recent story or something that the founders recently shared that people were amused by or that stands out for you? I don't know if there's a single anecdote. I think that it's... pretty normal to hear them... Speak about. mistakes that they've made, things that they look back on, that they think we should have done completely differently. Times maybe where as a company, we got lucky, but it was not on purpose. Or times where, you know, we made the wrong call. There's a lot of, I guess, vulnerability, for lack of a better word. Transparency in terms of, how they think things are going. Two, there's no mystery. And I think that all the leaders sort of share that mentality. There's no mystery in terms of where we think we are going, nailing it, where we need to put in more work or more reps, what we haven't figured out yet. And, There's a lot of just kind of openness at the company level. And I don't think that people could be as impactful if there wasn't. People know what... we're all kind of working toward. Yeah. It sounds like Harvey's Harvey's culture is open and transparent and vulnerable and supportive and low ego. It's got all these amazing qualities. And obviously, not every company is right for everyone. you know, it's clear why people would want to join Harvey. I'm curious, you know, why would people leave? Or why do you tend to see people not be as great of a fit for Harvey? Okay. Harvey is entering... teenage years, I would describe it as such because we are not this teeny tiny startup that hasn't found product market fit. Um, And we're also not. this fully actualized sort of old, long-standing, mega- public company. And I think that there are a lot of people who... either prefer this sort of structure and stability and pace of life. one of those massive companies. And I also think that there are people who want to be at really, really early companies. startups where, you know, Maybe they haven't found product market fit. Maybe the role is undefined. Maybe you're kind of figuring out What? [20:00] to work on, working across everything. We're just not at that. phase anymore. So I think that given that we're that in between, which frankly, I'm I love and I know a lot of people love where you've... got this Vision and strategy and strategy. leadership team that folks can learn a ton from, but you also have, aren't this big sort of behemoth that's working as a machine. That's not for everybody. Some people want more structure. Some people want less structure. And I think that's okay. Our goal, especially on my team, is... as a recruiting team is to... make sure the resort matches the brochure. We want people to... basically get as close to life as within Harvey during that interview process as possible for them to be able to make the call. Does this feel right? Does this feel exciting? Does this feel like, you know, this is the kind of work I want to do? This is the work that gets me excited. And if not, I think that's, We're doing our job also by... showcasing, I think, what the role is, entails with a company. is about and knowing that people are going to self-select in, they're going to self-select out. Yeah. Um, But yeah, I think that This is. the industry and the stage and the size of, And the way of working is not. for everyone. Yeah, like I described as kind of you're in this in between period. And so you're looking for other people who are down for that. ride of taking a company from its teenage years all the way into adulthood and who have kind of passed the point where everything is scrappy and undefined, but not yet at the point where there's systems for everything. And so new people who are willing to and excited about creating those more scalable systems. Totally. That's absolutely right. And I also think that... AI application layer companies in general, are trying to transform industries. I think that We... attract folks who have a certain customer centricity and an interest and a desire to sort of genuinely sort of reshape the, something like, the legal industry. It is very tangible. We are very close to our customers. We start off every all hands with sort of a customer testimonial. It doesn't matter what team you're on. You're very, very connected to... what our customers are doing. trying to do. And. We have so many lawyers or folks who are no longer practicing law, but once were within Harvey and all sorts of roles. Of course, we have an internal legal team, but we also have applied legal researchers who sit in product. We have legal innovation partners who sort of liaise with various, you know, CIOs and the innovation community. We have our legal engineers. and legal engineering product specialists who sit on the sales team. And so there's this like deep admiration and respect for the legal industry, for these law firms, for these in-house legal teams. what they're trying to do. And the folks at Harvey are genuinely looking to be part of transforming all of it. And I think that there are a lot of companies that whether they're focus more on sort of the other layers of the stack, maybe Purely. you know, building models themselves or, you know, infrastructure companies, etc. that have very cool technology, but don't necessarily touch the customer in the same way. Yeah. I think it takes a certain person to be, I think certain folks are motivated to work on these customer problems. And that might look different at different places. Yeah. Is that what in part inspired you to join Harvey or actually tell me about the story of you first hearing about Harvey and deciding to join? I had been at my previous company for almost a decade and I I had gotten a call from a recruiter. He kind of laughed and basically said, I have the perfect role for you for two reasons. One being... Katie, my boss, being probably one of the most sort of inspiring leaders in the people space she's now taken on the COO role. [25:00] at Harvey, but I knew that her scope with very, very big and she was working across. many different priorities and that I could learn a ton from her. not just in the recruiting or HR space, but just about, business in general. And, uh, The other piece was... what Harvey was doing. in the legal industry, but also in AI. I felt like it was a massive, a massive opportunity. And frankly, we have a very upmarket motion. And we are super customer-centric and AI. transformation is more than just building a great product. But we have essentially this like heavy people motion where for all of our customers, we have essentially an army of go-to-market resources for them, both pre-sale and post-sale. And we had plans to get to 16 markets in a year. So, yeah. the growth that was going to be required to sort of actualize our potential and essentially... give our customers the attention they needed created a very unique recruiting challenge. Yeah. in terms of how quickly we were going to have to hyperscale across so many different markets. And... do it with a level of quality and care. while maintaining a really high bar. So, the opportunity for for impact in my role in particular was... pretty unique. I knew what the growth plans were. the growth plans, the growth plans, expanded quickly after I started. And I definitely wasn't sure it was possible. I wasn't sure we could pull it off. And I think that That's sort of the story of Harvey. You join and you're being asked to do something that you don't actually know is... maybe, whether or not it's like maybe possible or possible in that amount of time or possible at the level or quality and execution that you think you... should be able to operate, but then you just, Do it. You just do it. We have a funny saying on the new media team at A16Z. We always say, you can just do things. And you just got to do it. Someone's got to do it. And you just got to get in there, roll up your sleeves and figure it out. It sounds like that's what the role was, you know. Like, Maggie, we think you can do it. For sure. And also, we're going to help you do it. So, yeah. That was a big part of it too. I think that... And... a head of recruiting role or a head of talent role, it's important. how the leaders look at the function, it's important that they... actually believe that it matters to go out to market and hire some of the best, you know, people in the industry, it's important that they believe that part of their job is doing that. It's not another team's job to just go out and, you know, bring folks in. And also, you know, they were willing to resource it and staff it. I mean... that, you know, is a very important component of, I think, asking people to push themselves is to give them the resources and the support and the, We do that across the board. So, my team, went from Thank you. I want to say about 16 to 80 folks in a year in order to support that growth. That's incredible. If you look across other teams, whether it's engineering teams or product teams or marketing teams, I think that they would all agree that they're being given all the tools that they need in order to... Do what they do. need to do and build something great for our customers. and you're hiring hundreds of people right now. Yeah. What, how does that work? What teams are you hiring for? What roles? I want to hear about the interview process. Yeah. We have over 400 jobs open right now. So, I won't go into the specific roles, but... We are hiring across every team. We are hiring pretty much across every region. We have added things. many new regions. We will continue to add some new regions. I won't share any today, but stay tuned. The interview process definitely differs. by team. The engineering loop looks very different than the [30:00] SDR loop as you would expect. I would say that the commonalities across groups. that processes and different regions, we have a values interview. for all candidates when they come on site. the values interviews structured around our three values. So simplicity, decisiveness, and jobs not finished. It's an opportunity both to understand how people have worked in the past, but also to give candidates the chance to like dig in and dive into our values and ask questions about what they mean and how they show up. And frankly, as we talked before about self-reporting, self-selection think about is this the kind of environment where I want to work and how they might approach how they might approach scenarios that come up with those values in mind. Can you give me a quick one-liner on each of these values and... and what you look for. Absolutely. So for decisiveness, Winston loves to say we don't take the square root of the weather. What does that mean? What it basically means is... We want to move fast. We'd rather make mistakes. and learn than overanalyze and spend all this time pontificating on how is this going to go or what do you think of this thing or that thing? It's almost about just... being willing to build and put things out into the world and then react really quickly. And so... That is great. I think, sort of the underlying value or mentality that drives our pace. You can't, operate at the pace we do and be completely afraid to make a mistake. You can't move at our pace and Get. 300 people to weigh in on every decision that you want to make. It's not a consensus-driven place. It's really about... people being able to take ownership and leverage and make those decisions and move forward and be able to own when they were the wrong decisions, but also understand that if we don't act, we're never going to move things forward. Simplicity, again, I think is, one of the reasons why we are able to move fast, right? It goes hand in hand with the decisiveness, but let's not overbuild Let's put something out into the world. Let's get feedback. Let's go from there. Let's go from there. Let's make this simple. I think that those two things, in conjunction with this sort of "Jobs not finished." mentality, which is really about the fact that kind of not just the work is, is, is, never done, but that we have a sense of humility and openness to the ways that it could be done better or could have been done better. I think those three things are, hand in hand, create that environment I was describing to you about sort of the straight A student. giving up some of the perfectionist tendencies. Yeah. Ultimately, for the satisfaction of being able to. have this massive impact on the industry and frankly drive their career forward incredibly quickly. It also creates... a real culture of discourse. I think that... the ability to speak openly about mistakes, the ability to put things out in front of people before they're completely perfect, the ability to make a decision without. all the necessary information, just doing the best that you can. is, this sort of like hotbed for growth and learning. It's not a place about sort of posturing and. Yep. sharing. you know, all the things that you've done right. So yeah, I think for folks who genuinely want to kind of go through this crash course of essentially like learning and growing and getting all this feedback and building a bunch of stuff and seeing what works and seeing what doesn't work and doing it with other people who are also just like kind of, in the same boat, It's... It's. Pretty amazing. Yeah. Sounds like a very like iterative. Let's experiment. Let's just see how it goes. You know, there's only goes back to what you said about you can't take the square root of weather. You just need to run with it. Break it down. Make decisions. Learn by doing. Yeah. Most companies move. [35:00] out of that phase really quickly. And they're very afraid to make mistakes. And they slow things down. and create a bunch of friction so that people can't move so fast. And I would say that we don't operate out of fear. Winston said recently in one of our co-founder AMAs that the thing that he wants to hold onto most as we live, grow. is trust. And the trust that we have for our employees and frankly, the agency that we give folks to just run and execute without a lot of the policing and without a lot of the friction. is what continues to allow us to hire the amazing folks that we do and move as quickly as we do and experiment the way that we do. And so... People forget that we're only four years old, but We still... have held on to. that trust, we still allow folks to have that level of agency and autonomy. and the values. enable it. They allow you to move quickly. They allow you to make mistakes. And... Without that, you know, I think that we would not be seeing the success that we have. Yeah. I love that it all comes down to trust. I have maybe one or two last questions. So one, you mentioned the team is opening up new locations. I won't pry. We'll have to wait to get the reveal on where you're opening up. But you already have offices here in San Francisco. New York, Chicago, Dallas, London, Dublin, Paris, Madrid, Milan, and many more. Correct. which is crazy. Sydney, Singapore. Yep. I missed a few Sydney, Singapore. It's wild. I probably missed a few too. But yes. Are all the offices different? Have you been to all of them? You're based in San Francisco? What is that office? You know, give me a sense of just the different locations and what that's looked like for your team. I have not been to all of the offices. I... plan to get to a few more this fall, but I've spent a lot of time. I'm based in our San Francisco office. I've spent a lot of time in our New York office as well. I've been out to our London office. I would say that... We do a great job of... having sort of a core level, Harvey, brand and vibe, but also each office feels distinct for that market. And not every office has a like the same mix of functions. Mm-hmm. So EPD, which is our engineering product design team, went from one location to another. just in San Francisco about 18 months ago to four locations. So San Francisco, San Francisco, Toronto, Toronto, New York and Bengaluru, India are sort of the home of our four EPD hubs. And Those offices have that mix of EPD and go-to-market. A lot of the other global offices start out with our legal engineering function, some of our go-to-market function. And because... lawyers practice law differently in different parts of the world and speak different languages. And as I mentioned, we do so much to sort of help our customers, not just to, you know, implement Harvey, but truly transform their organizations. Yeah. We want to make sure that the folks that are on the ground in those regions understand how law is practiced there. You know, they have experience working within that jurisdiction and speak the language, etc. And so a lot of our growth has been around providing... our customers with this amazing. experience and They take that knowledge and sort of the local nuances, and that definitely shapes sort of the differences in how the office is working. feel. But Thank you. We have a great workplace team. We have a great real estate team. And we tend to find... The right. spots. We tend to find great locations, we have beautiful spaces. And it's also important, I think, for our customers to know that, you know, they can come visit us and spend time with employees in like a beautiful space. typically near where a lot of law firms are. work, but there's more that we're going to continue to do and build out so that our customers can access us wherever they need to. And are there certain locations where you're hiring [40:00] more aggressively than others? Or is it pretty spread across the board? It's spread across the board. We tend to swarm new markets. And that's, do events and kind of go that extra mile early on when we're entering a new place to sort of deep dive with the talent there and sort of understand the landscape. But, The founding teams are super important. I think we put these strong founding teams in place and then through referrals and great sort of leaders there, they tend to have this sort of flywheel effect in bringing a lot of great folks in. And you're based in the San Francisco office. Right. Tell me about the San Francisco office. Yeah. Do you work in there like five days a week? Is the team pretty hybrid? We have a hybrid. We have a hybrid. three day a week policy, but I I would say people are in... Typically, I'm not going to be able to do that. More than that, It is very much... "tear it versus stick" when it comes to that hybrid in-office policy. We are not a place that has to do policing in terms of how many days a week have you come in, We have... a and energy and I can speak for the San Francisco office. There is... a buzz for sure in the office. People are there. They're collaborating. It's a beautiful space to work in. There's always something going on. You're running into somebody in the hall. You're asking questions. Somebody's like, oh, I forgot to tell you this thing or that thing. You get a lot done. I think you learn from your team members. As I mentioned, so many people are new and most people are frankly... onboarding or ramping in some way. And so being able to sit next to somebody who's maybe six months ahead of you or four weeks ahead of you and ask questions is so important. I actually see people who tend to come in sort of more than those three days because they'd rather be in the office than working from home. Anything you want candidates to know? If you actually take a step back, transforming the legal industry is, is very different than trying to transform people. customer support or, Build. an AI harness, more... create a model, even though we're now building some of our own. models. But Understanding what we are truly trying to achieve and how that is going to make your job different than working at, anthropic or at OpenAI. or at 11 Labs. or at Sierra, I think is super important because it will be different. And so I think taking the time to actually Think about that. What is unique about this industry? What is unique about the way law is practiced? How long it's been practiced for? The security requirements. You know, when we think about the fact that law is essentially like the basis of civilization as we know it and our aspirations to essentially transform this whole space. Taking the time to think about it does... I believe, help folks start to differentiate some of these opportunities. So what I feel like I'm hearing is the thing you love to hear most from candidates. is What about the legal industry gets you so fired up? I think that's a big part of it. I also think that people are attracted to growth companies, and they should be because it opens up a lot of opportunities. When a company is growing... You just get more at-bats than if a company is... shrinking or remaining flat. I think that what people... should understand is that we are. still a startup. as well. And so what you're getting sort of while you're getting all these apps, like, While you're going to have all these at-bats, I think that, you know, People sometimes ask for processes that don't. exist yet. And the right sort of mentality, I think for Harvey is that passion to like be part of creating it. And yeah, the ability to work through some of the, what might be seen as noise and not get frustrated, but frankly, get like energized by it. You can call it chaos. You can call it, you know, opportunities. I think that thinking about the kind of environment that you'd be excited to be a part of is super important. [45:00] I think that there has to be a little bit of this sort of adventurous kind of maverick. attitude. I think that like sort of managing the ambiguity is so important. So kind of key and critical to being successful at Harvey. Yeah, you want, it sounds like you're looking for people you can pull into the trenches with you and who are excited to find their way through and that have a lot of resources and a lot of momentum behind them. But there's still these big questions that your company is asking and that you're looking for people who... are eager to roll their sleeves to help you answer them. Okay. Absolutely. Judgment's an important one as well. And it's hard because... It's hard to assess and it's hard to measure, but I also think, think that when you're given agency. autonomy and opportunity for impact and you're going to get a lot of at-bats because we do move relatively quickly. You have to have... that sort of spidey sense, right? You have to have good judgment. You have to have that like voice in the back of your head that's saying, hey, before I like press send on this thing, I'm going to have a good judgment. Is there somebody who I should have like run through this with? And it's not 10 people, right? It's like that perfect balance of I'm not going to go out and ask for 20 people's feedback on this. But like, who is the right person who should have seen this before I press send? Or is there like one spot check I want to do here before pushing this live? I think, again, hard to assess and hard to put your finger on it. But having that judgment in an environment that does move really quickly, where there is a lot of agency and autonomy is kind of a critical part of success and also being able to maintain that trust. comment subscribe leave us a rating or review and share it with your friends and family for more episodes go to youtube apple podcast and spotify follow us on x a16z and subscribe to our sub stack at a16z.substack.com thanks again for listening and i'll see you in the next episode as a reminder the content here is for informational purposes only should not be taken as legal business tax or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any A16Z fund. Please note that A16Z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast. For more details, including a link to our investments, please see a16z.com forward slash disclosures. Bye.