President Zelenskyy: Peace Is A Huge Compromise, The Horrific Atrocities Of Russian War Crimes!

The Diary Of A CEO

AI-assisted summary of President Zelenskyy: Peace Is A Huge Compromise, The Horrific Atrocities Of Russian War Crimes! — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published: 2026-10-22

Key ideas

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy rejected Western evacuation offers at the onset of Russia's full-scale invasion, choosing to direct defenses from Kyiv while domestic volunteer mobilization rapidly expanded Ukraine's military from 200,000 to approximately 800,000 personnel. (0:00)
Russia currently occupies an estimated 18 to 19 percent of Ukrainian territory, with ongoing peace demands from Moscow insisting on the surrender of uncaptured defensive bastions like Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, and Druzhkivka. (93:06)
Zelenskyy firmly rejects calls for quick concessions or frozen frontlines, framing any unconditioned ceasefire as an immense compromise following widespread civilian massacres and torture uncovered in liberated cities like Bucha. (79:50)
Ukraine's retaliatory strikes against Russian oil refineries are defensive measures against electrical grid destruction, with Zelenskyy noting he previously proposed a reciprocal energy ceasefire that Moscow rejected. (100:00)

Detailed notes

## Background This interview was published on October 22, 2026, on the YouTube channel The Diary Of A CEO, hosted by Steven Bartlett, following an interview recorded on October 16, 2026. The episode features Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy discussing the personal psychological toll of wartime leadership, the strategic miscalculations behind Russia's full-scale invasion, and the geopolitical realities of pursuing peace without compromising accountability.

## TL;DR President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reflects on his path from Soviet-era childhood and comedy acting to steering Ukraine through full-scale invasion, detailing his decision to remain in Kyiv and reject foreign evacuation offers. He recounts the early military battles for Hostomel and the capital, the severe trauma of discovering Russian atrocities in Bucha, and the daily grind of coordinating air defenses on fragmented sleep. Addressing current geopolitical pressures, Zelenskyy analyzes Vladimir Putin's imperial ambitions, refutes Donald Trump's claims regarding Ukrainian refinery strikes and battle tactics, and explains why territorial concessions without ironclad security guarantees invite further aggression. Throughout, he emphasizes that a ceasefire is already a profound compromise that must be paired with genuine justice for war crimes.

## Atmosphere & style The dialogue carries a somber, intimate, and emotionally intense weight, stripping away conventional political polish to reveal an exhausted yet resolute leader. Zelenskyy speaks with raw candor, shifting between visceral outrage over murdered civilians and quiet vulnerability when describing his family, his mother's persistent calls, and the profound loneliness of wartime command. Steven Bartlett adopts a measured, listening posture that allows long silences and heavy reflections to settle, creating an atmosphere that feels less like a standard geopolitical press briefing and more like an unfiltered human reckoning with existential survival.

## Bulletin - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=0s) President Volodymyr Zelenskyy rejected Western evacuation offers at the onset of Russia's full-scale invasion, choosing to direct defenses from Kyiv while domestic volunteer mobilization rapidly expanded Ukraine's military from 200,000 to approximately 800,000 personnel. - [01:33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5586s) Russia currently occupies an estimated 18 to 19 percent of Ukrainian territory, with ongoing peace demands from Moscow insisting on the surrender of uncaptured defensive bastions like Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, and Druzhkivka. - [01:19:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4790s) Zelenskyy firmly rejects calls for quick concessions or frozen frontlines, framing any unconditioned ceasefire as an immense compromise following widespread civilian massacres and torture uncovered in liberated cities like Bucha. - [01:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6000s) Ukraine's retaliatory strikes against Russian oil refineries are defensive measures against electrical grid destruction, with Zelenskyy noting he previously proposed a reciprocal energy ceasefire that Moscow rejected.

## Key takeaways - [02:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=127s) The psychological toll on Ukrainian families who have suffered the violent loss of children and relatives far exceeds the executive burdens of wartime leadership. - [17:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1041s) Zelenskyy's transition from satirical television to the presidency was driven by public disillusionment and personal anger over Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea and aggression in Donbas. - [27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1650s) Modern Russian aggression stems from Vladimir Putin's imperial nostalgia for the Soviet Union, viewing independent Ukraine as an existential ideological threat to his autocracy. - [40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2400s) Pre-invasion Western policy fell short by relying on post-factum sanctions rather than delivering preemptive deterrence and defensive armaments requested by Kyiv. - [55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3300s) Refusing foreign evacuation was critical to prevent nationwide collapse, panic, and a constitutional vacuum during the opening assaults on Kyiv. - [01:05:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3907s) Russia's 72-hour blitzkrieg strategy failed because Moscow miscalculated Ukrainian national identity and expected nonexistent public submission, even packing formal parade uniforms. - [01:12:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4347s) The successful Ukrainian defense of Antonov Airport in Hostomel prevented Russian airborne forces from establishing an air bridge to decapitate Kyiv. - [01:14:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4491s) The discovery of systematic war crimes and mass graves in Bucha fundamentally changed the conflict, making moral forgiveness or unprincipled compromise impossible. - [01:23:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5023s) A sustainable end to the war requires a 'just peace' rooted in legal accountability and trials for perpetrators rather than appeasement or frozen borders. - [01:37:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5822s) Territorial concessions in Donetsk Oblast would fatally compromise the industrial heartland of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast without binding security guarantees such as NATO membership. - [01:39:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5964s) Russian nuclear weapon deployment remains strategically improbable because it would permanently isolate Moscow from essential global trade partners and normalize atomic warfare globally. - [01:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6000s) Domestic fuel price fluctuations in the United States stem from Middle East turmoil rather than targeted Ukrainian retaliatory strikes on Russian oil refineries. - [01:45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6300s) American leadership could accelerate peace negotiations by directing the same uncompromising public pressure against Vladimir Putin as is applied to democratic allies.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=0s) Intro: Surviving the Invasion and the Cost of Compromise

The conversation opens with an intense montage reflecting on the existential crisis Ukraine has faced since February 24, 2022. When the full-scale Russian invasion began, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy recalled telling his wife to let the children know that war had broken out, saying his goodbyes with a hurried promise to call before rushing into action. As satellite imagery captured a massive 64-kilometer Russian military convoy descending toward Kyiv and roughly 200,000 enemy troops advanced across the borders, defending the capital seemed nearly impossible while missiles rained down continuously. Zelenskyy worked from a bunker built directly inside his office, facing immense international pressure. When United States President Joe Biden called offering to evacuate him, Zelenskyy famously refused, declaring that he needed ammunition rather than a ride. The Russian leadership had banked on the Ukrainian government fleeing in panic, but Zelenskyy stayed put, inspiring a surge of domestic volunteers that expanded Ukraine’s armed forces from 200,000 to roughly 800,000 personnel.

Reflecting on the darkest days of the conflict, Zelenskyy points to the horrific human cost revealed in liberated areas such as Bucha. He recounts witnessing streets littered with the bodies of butchered children, adults, and the elderly—victims with hands tied, bearing marks of torture before being dumped into mass graves. Contrasting Ukraine's reality with the Western perspective on diplomacy, he explains why calls for quick territorial or moral concessions fail to grasp the depth of the atrocity. Confronting the prospect of mass graves containing hundreds of tortured civilians, Zelenskyy insists that normal forgiveness is impossible:

> “And that’s why when President Trump says we need to find a compromise, well, you can’t just forgive everything like that.”

[02:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=127s) "How Are You Doing?": Surviving with Optimism and Hope

Steven Bartlett moves past conventional pleasantries to ask Zelenskyy how he is truly coping on a raw, personal level. Zelenskyy pauses, acknowledging that his daily existence is defined by the ongoing collective survival of the Ukrainian people, where every dawn brings an existential question of whether tomorrow will come at all. He explains that his identity is inextricably tied to his family, his loved ones, and the country as a whole, meaning he cannot separate his private emotional state from the nation's struggle. Despite the overwhelming weight, he chooses to approach this grueling reality with love and persistent hope, anchored in a fundamental conviction that good ultimately defeats evil.

When Bartlett asks if his emotional state fluctuates like a rollercoaster with varying degrees of hope, Zelenskyy emphasizes that hope is the only thing that keeps human beings alive. While acknowledging the deep internal fracturing caused by wartime trauma—particularly for families who have lost a child, spouse, or parent—Zelenskyy remains humble about his own position. He stresses that whatever he carries as president pales in comparison to the agony borne by ordinary citizens grieving the violent loss of their closest relatives:

> “It’s much harder for them, I believe, just so much harder than it is for me, with all these challenges.”

[03:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=225s) The Horror of Missile Strikes on Children and Families

Looking through photographs brought by Bartlett, Zelenskyy stops on an image documenting the immediate aftermath of a Russian strike on a residential neighborhood. He recounts the harrowing details of a missile that slammed directly into a children's playground. Because of the weapon's extreme velocity, air raid sirens provided virtually no advance warning; within mere seconds of detection, the strike detonated among families playing outside and passersby who were simply out for an afternoon walk. Both children and nearby adults were killed instantly on the pavement.

Nearby apartment complexes directly overlooked the playground, forcing parents to witness the slaughter of their own children through their living room windows. Zelenskyy recalls visiting the blast site, where local residents observed the solemn Ukrainian tradition of laying flowers for deceased adults and toys for slain children. He reflects on the tragic reality of an entire generation of Ukrainian youth who have never known what peaceful life feels like, having spent their entire conscious lives running into subterranean bomb shelters night after night under screaming sirens. Expressing his grief, Zelenskyy remarks:

> “Do you understand what it’s like to see through a window one of your children just torn apart?”

[06:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=375s) "I Don't Sleep": Nightly Military Duty and the Agony of Bereaved Parents

Bartlett notes Zelenskyy’s earlier remark in the war that he felt he had not yet earned the right to sleep, asking about the physiological and psychological toll of four to five years of non-stop crisis. Zelenskyy admits candidly that restful sleep remains an impossibility. Every single night, he maintains active, real-time messaging channels with Ukraine’s air defense operators, constantly coordinating resource allocations and shifting protective assets from one region to another to counter incoming Russian drone and missile barrages. Operating without the standard eight hours of sleep has become his baseline reality, though he refuses to frame it as a complaint.

When pressed on the heaviest emotional burden of his office, Zelenskyy singles out the solemn state ceremonies where he must personally bestow the Hero of Ukraine—the country's highest military honor—posthumously to the parents of fallen soldiers. In those moments, he feels his own ego completely vanish into their bottomless grief. He describes powerful, physically imposing fathers whose hands tremble as they grip his, quietly asking for a simple hug because their world has shattered. While these parents understood their sons and daughters were soldiers facing lethal risks on the front line, intellectual awareness does nothing to dull the catastrophic pain of actual loss. Seeing tears in Zelenskyy's eyes, Bartlett highlights his vulnerability, prompting Zelenskyy to explain:

> “I’m a human being. I’m not ashamed to be who I am. I’m not the strongest man in the world. I try to set an example, but I’m definitely not a perfect person.”

[09:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=593s) What Keeps Him Going: Setting an Example for His Children

Bartlett asks what keeps the president resilient amidst such relentless emotional trauma and isolation. Zelenskyy answers without hesitation that his children are his primary anchor and motivation. He feels a profound parental duty to model strength, courage, and integrity, showing them how to navigate immense adversity without hardening his heart or concealing his authentic emotions. He rejects the notion that a wartime leader must appear emotionless, arguing that denying one's suffering is a denial of life itself. In his view, human sensitivity is paradoxically where genuine endurance originates:

> “Because human beings, by nature, they’re alive, and that’s their weakness, but it’s also where a person’s strength lies.”

[11:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=684s) Growing Up in Soviet Ukraine and Values from Kryvyi Rih

Shifting back into his origins, Bartlett presents photographs of Zelenskyy’s youth and his mother, exploring the formative environments that shaped his moral compass. Zelenskyy reflects on belonging to a transitional generation that straddled two entirely different epochs: he was born while Ukraine was absorbed within the Soviet Union, but he reached adulthood in an independent, sovereign nation. He notes that while his own generation had to navigate ideological contradictions and Soviet ambiguities, his children have grown up with clear patriotic certainty, viewing their Ukrainian national identity in unambiguous, black-and-white terms.

Zelenskyy grew up in the industrial city of Kryvyi Rih in a modest, hardworking household. His father was a professor, though he notes that working in academia within the Soviet system carried none of the financial wealth or prestige typical of Western academic institutions. Despite their limited material means, his parents instilled rigorous personal integrity, provided him with a solid education, and surrounded him with steadfast love. For Zelenskyy, these fundamentals laid the foundation for his entire worldview:

> “I got an education and I got raised right, and my parents' love—I think those three things are enough to be grateful to your parents.”

[13:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=818s) From Law School to Writing, Comedy, and Television

When Bartlett asks what his childhood aspirations were, Zelenskyy admits his career goals were constantly shifting like the wind. At various points in his youth, he dreamed of becoming a diplomat or serving his country as a border guard. He ultimately enrolled in law school and graduated with a law degree. However, during the course of his legal studies, he realized his true creative passions lay within media and storytelling.

By age 17, Zelenskyy had thrown himself into comedy, joining performance troupes where he spent years writing scripts and performing as an actor. He continued this artistic journey through his early twenties, focusing heavily on scriptwriting while taking on acting roles. By the time he turned 26, he leveraged his creative and business experience to establish his own independent media and television production company. Bartlett also highlights the eclectic nature of his pre-political public career, noting that at age 28, Zelenskyy competed in and won Ukraine’s inaugural season of *Dancing with the Stars*.

- Ambitions in childhood shifted between foreign diplomacy and military border guard service. - Earned a formal law degree before pivoting completely to creative media production. - Acted, wrote scripts, and performed in comedy troupes from age 17 to 26. - Founded his own media production company at age 26. - Won the Ukrainian edition of *Dancing with the Stars* at age 28.

[15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=900s) From Voicing Paddington Bear to Starring in Servant of the People

The conversation turns to Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s earlier career in performance and entertainment, starting with lighthearted questions about whether he can dance and his voice-acting role as Paddington Bear in the Ukrainian-language release. Zelenskyy reflects fondly on voicing the character, noting that while many consider it children's entertainment, the character resonated deeply with him on a personal level. Even after he was elected president, producers reached out to gauge his interest in returning to voice another installment, but his presidential duties made that impossible.

Between the ages of 34 and 37, Zelenskyy appeared in numerous feature films before landing the defining satirical role of his creative career: playing Vasily Petrovych Goloborodko, a high school history teacher who unexpectedly becomes president in the television series *Servant of the People*. The host points out the bizarre, almost unbelievable irony that Zelenskyy played an ordinary citizen accidentally propelled into the presidency, only to experience that exact trajectory in real life. Zelenskyy confirms that he never anticipated entering politics while creating the show:

> “The person from the people, without any history, without any political background, becomes president.”

Zelenskyy explains that the underlying premise had actually lived with him for 10 to 12 years. He felt the world and Ukrainian society were shifting in a direction where an outsider story would resonate strongly with the public.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Zelenskyy's Trajectory from Entertainment to Politics accDescr: Chart illustrating the transition from television and media projects to the political realm following geopolitical disruption.

subgraph Media ["Creative & Satirical Projects"] A["Voice acting & film roles (Paddington Bear)"] --> B["Political satire projects & media production"] B --> C["'Servant of the People' (History teacher elected President)"] end

subgraph Disruption ["Geopolitical Catalysts"] D["2014 Annexation of Crimea & Donbas War"] E["Severing business ties with Russia & sense of betrayal"] end

subgraph Governance ["Political Entry"] F["Registration of 'Servant of the People' party"] G["2019 Presidential Victory"] end

C --> D D --> E E --> F F --> G ```

[17:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1041s) Why Zelenskyy Left Entertainment for Politics

Addressing speculation that *Servant of the People* was a calculated, pre-planned stepping stone to launch a real-world political party, Zelenskyy rejects the idea of a master strategy. He had already established a firm grasp on politics through long-running political satire shows that predated the television series. Instead, the true catalyst was the geopolitical upheaval of 2014—specifically Russia's annexation of Crimea and the military conflict in the Donbas.

Prior to 2014, Zelenskyy’s media business operated across the region, maintaining offices and production sets in Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia. The sudden Russian aggression and the resulting sense of betrayal led him to abandon those ventures entirely. As his own priorities shifted, the broader Ukrainian public began seeking fresh leadership outside the traditional political class:

> “It coincided: the mood in society coincided with my inner mood and with my determination and desire, so it's a coincidence of many things.”

- *Servant of the People* emerged as an artistic response to societal dissatisfaction rather than a premeditated campaign vehicle. - Zelenskyy's production company severed ties with Russian projects following the initial 2014 aggression. - Four years after the annexation of Crimea, Zelenskyy formally announced his candidacy for the Ukrainian presidency.

[20:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1224s) When Did the Russia-Ukraine War Really Begin?

When asked when the war truly started—whether centuries ago during the era of Kyivan Rus, in 2014, or with the full-scale invasion in 2022—Zelenskyy points squarely to 2014 for modern, independent Ukraine:

> “Our mistake was not pushing them back. And of course, if there had been an order to defend the country, I'm sure that, I think a full-scale war in the form it has today wouldn't have happened.”

Zelenskyy describes the 2014 annexation of Crimea as a slow, "creeping occupation." Russian forces deliberately concealed their involvement using unmarked troops widely referred to as "little green men," allowing Moscow to deny state culpability. At the time, Ukrainian leadership failed to issue clear orders to defend state borders by force. Because Ukraine did not confront the initial incursions militarily, the early phase of the conflict did not resemble a conventional war to outside observers, creating an opening that ultimately emboldened Moscow to pursue a full-scale invasion years later.

[22:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1335s) Family History in World War II and the "Nazi" Disinformation

The discussion shifts to Zelenskyy's ancestry and the loss of his relatives during World War II. Zelenskyy’s grandfather fought against Nazi Germany from the start to the finish of the war; his grandfather’s brothers and his great-grandfather were all murdered by the Nazis. Because of the Holocaust and fascist atrocities, very few relatives survived on either his father's or his mother's side.

Given his family's personal trauma and Ukraine's collective history, Zelenskyy forcefully condemns Vladimir Putin's rhetoric claiming that modern Ukraine is governed by fascists or requires "denazification":

> “That's why all of our people in Ukraine saw it, well, you know, as barbaric and an outrage when Putin attacked us and said we have fascism and he's liberating Ukraine from fascists.”

Zelenskyy stresses key historical realities that counter Russian propaganda: - Ukraine was 100% occupied by Nazi Germany during World War II, bearing immense civilian and military casualties alongside Belarus. - Russia's territory was not fully occupied in the same way, whereas Ukrainian soil saw relentless devastation on the front lines. - Having sacrificed millions of lives to defeat Nazi fascism, the notion that modern Ukrainian society embraces fascism is both absurd and offensive to the memory of those who liberated Europe.

[25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1500s) The Nature of Empires and the Collapse of the Fish Tank

The host asks President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to explain the entire conflict in the simplest possible terms, as if speaking to an inquisitive 16-year-old with zero geopolitical background: why did Vladimir Putin invade Crimea, what is driving his worldview, and why does he believe he has the right to conquer Ukraine? Zelenskyy accepts the framing and strips the geopolitical jargon away, beginning with the universal life cycle of all empires. Throughout human history, he explains, vast empires hold disparate peoples and territories together strictly through autocratic force, tyranny, feudalism, and slavery—never through freedom. The moment liberty or awareness enters the system, an empire is doomed to collapse because human beings naturally look beyond their borders, comparing their daily lives to free societies where people can choose their own clothing, listen to any music, dye their hair any color, and pick whatever partners they wish.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: The Mechanics of Imperial Control vs. Freedom accDescr: Diagram illustrating how imperial information control fails once citizens experience freedom and diversity.

subgraph EmpireControl["Imperial Control Mechanism"] A["Autocracy & Tyranny"] --> B["Iron Curtain & Censorship"] B --> C["'Fish Tank' Reality"] end

subgraph Breakdown["Breakdown & Identity"] C --> D["Desire for Freedom & Outside Awareness"] D --> E["Collapse of the Empire"] E --> F["Independent Nations & Cultural Identity"] end ```

Zelenskyy illustrates life behind the Soviet Union's Iron Curtain with the vivid metaphor of a fish tank. By sealing off the outside world, banning the internet, and maintaining an absolute monopoly on television broadcasts, an imperial regime keeps its populace trapped in an artificial information vacuum. While North Korea represents a small fish tank, the Soviet Union was simply a colossal one, yet still an enclosure where people lived like captive fish unable to witness life in the United States, Britain, Western Europe, or Asia. When that tank shattered, nations broke away in relief to reclaim their distinct identities, languages, and cultures, mirroring the rich global diversity that travelers celebrate when visiting places like Thailand or Japan.

* “Empires don't survive on freedom.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy * “The fish tank can be massive like the Soviet Union, but it's still a fish tank.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

[27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1650s) Putin’s Soviet Nostalgia and Ukraine as the "Forge of Talent"

While newly independent nations celebrated their autonomy, deep imperial nostalgia lingered among former regime operatives, most notably Vladimir Putin. Characterizing Putin as a “purely Soviet man” shaped by his years as a KGB intelligence officer stationed in East Germany, Zelenskyy points to Putin's well-known declaration that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century. In Putin’s worldview, Russia on its own was never enough; he harbored an obsessive ambition to resurrect the fallen empire and exact revenge on the United States, whom he blamed for orchestrating the Soviet downfall during the Cold War.

To rebuild that empire, reabsorbing Ukraine was an absolute existential requirement. Within the Soviet hierarchy, Ukraine was universally recognized as "country number two" and revered as the imperial "forge of talent." It was the intellectual powerhouse and industrial backbone of the USSR, supplying the union with its premier scientists, engineers, ministers, elite universities, and intelligentsia. Ukraine manufactured the Soviet Union's largest rockets and was the custodian of a massive nuclear arsenal before voluntarily surrendering it. Putin recognized that if Ukraine permanently integrated into the European Union and embraced Western democratic values, the modern Russian Federation—an unstable federation of distinct ethnic and religious groups—would face internal reckoning and eventual disintegration.

* “He said... And this is his very famous phrase, that the greatest collapse of the 20th century in the world was the fall of the Soviet Union.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy * “That's what they said, that for the Soviet Union, Ukraine was the forge of talent.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

[30:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1830s) The Chechnya Blueprint and the Weaponization of Language

Zelenskyy explains that Putin’s campaign to reconstruct the Soviet sphere followed a ruthless blueprint first tested in Chechnya. Russia pulverized the small republic, obliterating entire cities until no standing buildings remained and killing vast numbers of civilians. Zelenskyy points out that the exact same Russian military commanders who orchestrated the total destruction of Chechnya were later deployed to wage war in eastern Ukraine.

To execute an imperial land grab, an autocrat invariably requires a manufactured pretext, and Putin chose to weaponize language. In 2014, Moscow launched its initial incursions into Crimea and the Donbas under the cynical guise of "protecting" Russian-speaking citizens. Zelenskyy condemns this tactic as utterly despicable and dishonest, noting that no one's rights had been infringed upon. In Crimea, this narrative erased the reality of a multi-ethnic peninsula and ignored the historical trauma of the indigenous Crimean Tatars, who had endured repeated mass deportations. By dividing society along linguistic lines, Putin created a convenient, localized justification to slice away territory directly bordering the Russian Federation.

* “Everything that's happening in eastern Ukraine, it's... The very same commanders, military commanders who fought in Chechnya, who destroyed Chechnya completely.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy * “And when you want to divide society, it's totally unfair. It's totally despicable toward the people. You start bringing up the language issue.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

[32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1920s) Refuting Putin's Revisionist History with Kyivan Rus

The host brings up the televised speech Putin delivered just prior to the full-scale invasion of February 24, 2022, where the Russian leader claimed that modern Ukraine was an artificial construct entirely invented by Bolshevik communist Russia and Vladimir Lenin, alleging that Ukraine possessed no authentic historical tradition of independent statehood. The host asks Zelenskyy why, after taking Crimea in 2014, Putin ultimately decided on February 24 to send his armies across the border to subjugate the entire nation.

Zelenskyy scoffs at Putin’s historical fabrications, calling the idea that a nation’s history arbitrarily began in 1917 plainly ridiculous. He points out that Ukraine is the direct historical heir to Kyivan Rus, an advanced European civilization boasting a distinct culture, traditions, and masterfully painted churches that have stood for over a thousand years. By the time Kyivan Rus was flourishing as a recognized European power, Moscow and the Russian state were not even close to existing.

* “In Ukraine, there are churches, everyone knows, we have very beautiful churches that are a thousand years old.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy * “Russia wasn't even close to existing. Russia came after Ukraine already existing.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

[35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2100s) Soviet Nostalgia and the Launch of the Full-Scale Invasion

Volodymyr Zelenskyy explains that Vladimir Putin deliberately distorts history by starting his narrative with the October Revolution of 1917 rather than the genuine history of Russia or Ukraine. By framing history strictly through the prism of the Soviet Union, Putin aims to indoctrinate Russian schoolchildren with the idea that their true national identity belongs to that bygone era and that re-establishing the Soviet empire is where they are heading.

When the full-scale invasion was launched on February 24, 2022, missile barrages immediately struck Ukrainian territory from multiple directions. Ground forces pushed across borders simultaneously, including from Belarus along the shortest geographical corridor directly toward Kyiv. Zelenskyy outlines that Moscow's overarching strategic objective was the swift capture of the capital, relying on both Russian conventional forces and separatist elements already entrenched in the occupied Donbas.

Addressing whether perceived weakness from President Joe Biden created an opening for the attack—a frequent political claim—Zelenskyy looks back to the 2021 Biden–Putin summit. Following that meeting, intelligence and rumors of a potential Russian military escalation mounted. Ukraine pressed American officials for months: if severe risks existed, Ukraine needed defensive weaponry immediately. Yet Ukrainian leadership could not conceive that Russia would unleash an unprovoked, overnight missile blitz across the entire country, expecting instead an expansion similar to the 2014 localized conflicts in Crimea and the Donbas.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Russia's Multi-Axis Initial Invasion Vector accDescr: Diagram illustrating Russian invasion routes targeting Kyiv, Donbas, and nationwide missile strikes in February 2022. subgraph Staging["Invasion Staging Areas"] BY["Belarus (Northern Route)"] RU["Russian Federation (Eastern / Multi-axis)"] Donbas["Occupied Donbas & Crimea"] end

subgraph Assault["Initial Assault Mechanisms"] Missiles["Mass Pre-dawn Missile Strikes Nationwide"] GroundNorth["Rapid Mechanized Advance on Kyiv"] GroundEast["Eastern Offensive Anchoring Ukrainian Troops"] end

subgraph Objective["Primary Strategic Objective"] Capital["Encircle and Seize Kyiv"] end

BY --> GroundNorth RU --> Missiles RU --> GroundEast Donbas --> GroundEast GroundNorth --> Capital Missiles --> Capital ```

- At approximately 4:00 AM on February 24, 2022, Russian missiles rained down nationwide, triggering mass panic and chaos before Ukraine developed its later capability to down thousands of incoming drones and missiles. - In the initial days of the assault, President Biden offered to assist in evacuating Zelenskyy from Kyiv, an offer the Ukrainian leader rejected, demanding defensive weapons instead: “I said, give us weapons, help us defend the country.” - Zelenskyy emphasizes that Western allies harbored doubts about Ukraine's ability to survive: “The United States back then, I don't know, maybe they did consider that it could turn out that there'd be a conflict and we might be occupied, but nobody counted on us holding out for sure.” - Just one day prior to the assault, European leaders held conversations with Putin, who outright lied and promised no military offensive would occur.

---

[40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2400s) Western Warnings, Preemptive Sanctions, and the Intelligence Disconnect

Zelenskyy clarifies that Western intelligence was never delivered as an exact, day-and-hour operational itinerary for a total war. Instead, warnings arrived via cautious diplomatic signals. The mounting geopolitical dread took an immediate toll on Ukraine’s stability, devaluing the national currency and shaking the economy. In response, Kyiv persistently asked Washington for two concrete deterrents: immediate defensive weapon shipments and preemptive sanctions.

The Biden administration, however, maintained that sanctions would only be triggered *post factum*—after Russian troops crossed the border. Zelenskyy views this policy as a critical strategic misjudgment: “I asked President Biden, impose sanctions on Russia now, preemptively... But President Biden said, we'll impose sanctions if there's an invasion. Post factum, not preemptive sanctions, but post factum. I'm not God to judge a president, but I believe that was a mistake in my view.”

The host reviews the documented timeline of declassified warnings leading to the invasion: - **October 2021:** Director of National Intelligence and the CIA Director briefed US leadership and top NATO allies on concrete Russian plans for a multi-front invasion, accompanied by satellite imagery of 100,000 troops, tanks, and field hospitals. - **November 2021:** The CIA Director traveled directly to Moscow to caution Putin against an offensive; declassified intelligence maps subsequently outlined a planned strike force of up to 175,000 personnel. - **Late January / Early February 2022:** The US National Security Advisor issued public alerts that an invasion could begin at any moment, advising foreign citizens to evacuate.

Despite these warnings, Zelenskyy explains why European capitals and Ukrainian leadership remained skeptical of a total war. Russian troops were engaged in what were framed as routine joint military exercises in Belarus, where even the Ukrainian Minister of Defense had been invited to observe. Many interpreted the troop build-up as coercive diplomacy—saber-rattling intended to force Ukraine into conceding Donbas and Crimea under the Minsk agreements. Zelenskyy acknowledges that he did not anticipate a multi-front assault aimed at total subjugation because unprovoked, full-scale imperial conquest seemed completely irrational in the modern era.

---

[45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2700s) The Morning the World Changed: “Wake Up Quickly, the War Has Started”

When the invasion began, Russian mechanized forces advanced toward Kyiv with relentless speed, described by Zelenskyy as an "avalanche." He recalls the intimate, abrupt rupture in his personal life the morning the strikes began. Woken during the night by incoming missile detonations, he received a phone call from his presidential office confirming the worst.

He dressed immediately, awakened his family, and delivered the reality in a matter of seconds. Recalling his parting words to his wife, Olena, he remembers the rush: “I told my wife, wake up quickly, the war has started. I love you, I'll call you, and... ran out.” He arrived at the presidential offices as one of the first two people in the building, summoning his staff to begin what he describes as a terrible first workday of full-scale war. He affirms that from that single morning forward, life altered completely and irreversibly.

---

[46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2808s) Would the War Have Happened Under Trump?

The conversation turns to the claim made by Donald Trump that the 2022 full-scale invasion never would have occurred under his administration. Zelenskyy weighs the argument carefully, taking a heavy sigh before noting the immutable timeline: the invasion happened under Joe Biden, and it did not happen under Donald Trump. He suggests Trump’s personal rapport with the Russian leader might have delayed or temporarily averted a full-scale clash: “Maybe it really is possible that Trump being on friendly terms with Putin could have prevented a full-scale invasion.”

However, Zelenskyy underscores the deeper systemic reality: national leaders are temporary, whereas Putin’s revanchist goals are permanent. Even if an administration had postponed open hostilities for a few years, Putin’s obsession with dominating Ukraine remained unchanged: “Neither I nor Trump, we're not eternal in these presidential seats. And so either way... Trump's presidency would have ended and Putin still wouldn't have been able to change his main goal: the occupation of Ukraine. So I think that honestly, it doesn't matter who the president is, as long as Putin is there.”

---

[48:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2933s) Russian Troop Numbers and the Drive on Kyiv

The host highlights the scale of the Russian force, noting reports of 150,000 to 200,000 troops assembled along the borders—a figure roughly equal to Ukraine's entire active-duty standing military at the time—including massive columns of armor, such as the infamous 65-kilometer-long convoy advancing on Kyiv.

Zelenskyy details the structural challenge Ukraine faced on day one. Moscow was fully aware of the deployment of Ukraine’s best combat units: the vast majority of Kyiv’s seasoned, active-duty forces were entrenched in the East, defending the contact lines across Donetsk and Luhansk against Russian-backed proxy forces. Russia sought to exploit this eastern troop concentration by launching a direct northern strike out of Belarus to seize the capital before Ukraine could reposition its defenses.

[50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3000s) The Defense Imbalance and the 40-Mile Russian Convoy

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy outlines the troop distributions prior to the full-scale invasion, noting that Ukraine’s strongest forces were entrenched facing the occupied Donbas region. Because Donetsk was held by heavily equipped Russian forces alongside local separatists who viewed the region as their homeland, Ukraine’s elite units were committed there to prevent a breakthrough. Consequently, the northern border along Belarus was left sparsely defended because a direct assault on the capital from that direction was completely unexpected.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Force Disparity and Defense Flow accDescr: Russian northern thrust on Kyiv faced small Ukrainian units before mobilization shifted the balance.

subgraph PreInvasion ["Pre-Invasion Troop Disparity"] A["Ukrainian Pre-War Army (~200k–250k)"] B["Russian Invasion Force (~700k across all axes)"] A -.->|"Elite units committed"| C["Donbas Defense Line"] B -->|"Unexpected axis via Belarus"| D["Kyiv Northern Axis"] end

subgraph CrisisAndResponse ["Mobilization & Northern Counter-Offensive"] D --> E["Siege & Blockade of Kyiv (40-Mile Convoy, Chornobyl occupied)"] E --> F["Rapid Mobilization (Army expands to ~800,000)"] F --> G["Pushback & Liberation (Kyiv & Chernihiv fully restored)"] end ```

Zelenskyy explains that Ukraine simply lacked the military size at the time to guard all borders simultaneously. Although he had earlier amended legislation to expand the armed forces from 200,000 to 250,000, facing an onslaught of roughly 700,000 Russian troops across all operational directions made an initial defense near Kyiv exceptionally difficult. Russia initially capitalized on this deficit, occupying the Chornobyl nuclear plant and advancing a 40-mile (64-kilometer) armored convoy down a highway toward the capital. However, Russia soon encountered the inverse problem: they lacked the manpower required to capture and hold a hostile metropolitan center. As citizens queued up at recruitment centers, the Ukrainian army surged to 800,000 volunteers and mobilized personnel, enabling Ukrainian forces to sever Russian logistics, beat back the convoy, and fully liberate the Kyiv and Chernihiv regions.

- Ukraine’s pre-war army stood around 200,000 to 250,000 soldiers, while Russia deployed approximately 700,000 troops across all operational axes into Ukraine. - Popular wartime mobilization swelled the Ukrainian military from roughly 200,000 to an estimated 800,000 personnel. - The 64-kilometer (40-mile) armored column backed up along the single highway leading toward Kyiv was visually terrifying, yet it became unsustainable once Ukrainian forces targeted its flanks and logistical support. - Russian forces succeeded in blockading access routes, capturing Chornobyl, and severing water and food supplies, prompting some internal intermediaries to urge capitulation. - Regarding those who advised surrendering the capital, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy recalls: “Naturally, I told those people where to go. Let's put it that way.”

---

[55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3300s) Refusing Evacuation: "I Need Ammunition"

As Kyiv was being surrounded and gunfire echoed directly outside the presidential office, international partners reached out with urgent evacuation plans. United States President Joe Biden was the first to offer assistance to fly Zelenskyy and his family out of the country, an offer soon repeated by several European heads of state and suggested by voices within domestic political circles. Zelenskyy rejected every proposal, delivering his well-known reply: “I need ammunition.”

His family was relocated by state security to a separate, undisclosed safe location, while Zelenskyy descended into the fortified, deep underground bunker beneath Bankova Street. From this bunker—guarded above by snipers and special operations units—he conducted critical video calls with European leaders, successfully imploring them to unite and deliver military support. Simultaneously, the Kremlin unleashed a fierce disinformation campaign alleging that the Ukrainian president had fled the country or was spotted at the border. To dismantle these claims, Zelenskyy made a deliberate command decision to leave the bunker multiple times every day to film himself on the streets of Kyiv, proving to both citizens and the armed forces that their leadership had stayed put.

> “I couldn't abandon Kyiv, the office, the people. It's just impossible. That would be betrayal. Betrayal of my human decency and the constitution of Ukraine.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

- President Joe Biden was the very first foreign leader to phone Zelenskyy with an offer to evacuate him and his family from the surrounded capital. - Armed clashes and gunfire took place in the immediate vicinity of the presidential office during the opening hours of the assault. - Zelenskyy established his operational center in the deep bunker beneath the presidential administration, orchestrating emergency diplomacy and coordinating military defense from underground. - Ukrainian soldiers later confided to Zelenskyy that seeing their Commander-in-Chief on the streets of the capital was the primary moral catalyst that inspired them to stand firm and defend Kyiv. - Dismissing any notion of personal heroism, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy insists: “It was my duty. I don't see it as some kind of very special choice of mine. I believe that this was the only way I could act.”

---

[01:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3600s) Crisis Mode, Fifteen-Minute Sleep, and Realization of War

Asked whether he was gripped by terror when confronting a massive nuclear power advancing on his doorstep, Zelenskyy explains that fear was entirely displaced by extreme, hyper-focused adrenaline. Faced with colleagues and advisors paralyzed by initial shock, his immediate instinct was to take charge and enforce relentless operational momentum. He describes sprinting through the presidential corridors, making dozens of high-stakes phone calls every hour, coordinating the immediate opening of besieged supply corridors for food and water, and stabilizing essential civilian infrastructure.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Early War Crisis Management Priorities accDescr: The four urgent operational pillars handled simultaneously during the first 20 days.

subgraph Pillars ["First 20 Days: Crisis Management"] direction TB P1["Logistics & Arms (Night calls to Poland / Andrzej Duda)"] P2["Civilian Systems (Food, water, banking & digital cards)"] P3["Information Warfare (Street videos shattering Russian claims)"] P4["Tactical Military Ops (Unblocking supply roads around Kyiv)"] end ```

During those initial weeks, rest was virtually nonexistent; Zelenskyy slept in sporadic bursts of roughly 15 minutes before plunging back into diplomacy and logistical crises. He would call foreign counterparts at all hours of the night, including Polish President Andrzej Duda, waking leaders up directly to coordinate cross-border weapons shipments through Polish warehouses. Beyond military hardware, the administration worked frantically to protect Ukraine’s digital and civilian backbone, ensuring supermarket food supplies, emergency water networks, and electronic banking cards continued to operate smoothly across partially severed cities. It was only after approximately 20 days—when the initial push on Kyiv was shattered, Russian disinformation was contained, and operational routines stabilized—that the sheer speed slowed down enough for him to fully process the catastrophic grief and human toll of the war.

- In the opening phase, Zelenskyy slept in fragmented increments of roughly 15 minutes because round-the-clock international negotiations and logistical decisions were continuous. - Emergency supply chains were established in real-time, with midnight phone calls placed to leaders like Poland's President Andrzej Duda to clear cross-border weapons transfers. - Digital infrastructure and banking systems were maintained under intense strain so ordinary citizens cut off in threatened towns could still purchase food and essentials using their cards. - The psychological defense mechanism took over completely in the opening weeks; President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reflects: “I only realized it all about 20 days into the war. I just realized that something happened, something terrible and and the speed, you know, when the speed slightly began to shift, you started to realize, my God, well, this is war.”

[01:05:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3907s) Russia's Big Mistake: Parade Uniforms and the Three-Day Illusion

Steven Bartlett brings up the widely reported fact that Vladimir Putin expected Ukraine to collapse almost instantly. Russian assault units crossed the border carrying only three to ten days of combat rations, alongside formal dress uniforms tailored for a triumphant military parade, while Russian state media even accidentally published a pre-scheduled victory declaration on the third day of the invasion. Asked what the Kremlin fundamentally underestimated, Volodymyr Zelenskyy answers that it all stems from a refusal to accept reality: “That's his problem, refusing to recognize a separate nation, refusing to recognize a separate country.” In Putin’s imperial mindset, Ukraine was simply a regional extension of Russia. He assumed that an intimidating mass of hundreds of thousands of troops, accompanied by a heavy fist slammed on the table, would send Ukraine’s leadership packing, force the civilian population into hiding, and allow Russian tricolors to replace Ukrainian flags in seventy-two hours.

Zelenskyy confirms the bizarre reality of what Ukrainian defenders encountered when ambushing the vanguard forces. Inside tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, Ukrainian soldiers found actual dress uniforms meant for a staged celebration on Khreshchatyk and Independence Square (Maidan Nezalezhnosti). The Russian high command genuinely believed their soldiers would be marching in a ceremonial display rather than engaging in a grinding, bloody battle for survival. Because Putin refused to acknowledge that Ukrainians are a distinct people with an unyielding will of their own, the entire invasion was predicated on a delusional political fantasy.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Russia Blitzkrieg Plan vs Reality accDescr: Russian initial assumptions for taking Kyiv compared to the ground reality of Ukrainian resistance.

subgraph Plan["Russian Plan"] A["Airmobile Assault & Encirclement"] --> B["Capture Airports & TV Towers"] B --> C["Flight of Leadership & Swift Surrender"] C --> D["Victory Parade on Khreshchatyk"] end

subgraph Reality["Ground Reality"] E["Hostomel Airport Contested & Runway Destroyed"] --> F["Towns Resist: Armor Burned by Civilians & Military"] F --> G["Russian Troops Require 300k–400k to Occupy"] G --> H["Catastrophic Supply & Combat Failure"] end

Plan -.->|"Collapses against"| Reality ```

---

[01:07:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4035s) Debunking Donald Trump’s "Mud and Wrong Turn" Theory

Bartlett points out that only twelve hours prior to their conversation, Donald Trump offered his own explanation for why Russia failed to seize the capital. Trump claimed that Russian tank columns were speeding along a concrete highway directly into Kyiv when an incompetent general ordered a fateful right turn into surrounding farmland soaked by the heaviest rains in a decade, bogging down the tanks in mud like quicksand. According to Trump, had the convoy stayed on the highway, the war would have concluded in a single day.

Zelenskyy dismisses this theory as disconnected from the facts on the ground, explaining that the outcome had nothing to do with a single navigational mishap or an idiot commander taking a wrong turn. Russian armor actually reached the outskirts and several vehicles even breached the streets of the capital itself. Furthermore, Russian forces systematically surrounded Kyiv, attempted to bypass settlements that mounted ferocious defenses, and occupied towns across the northern approaches. Instead of rolling unopposed along highways, Russian forces were ambushed at every bottleneck, with ordinary local residents hurling incendiary mixtures and burning debris onto Russian armor from their doorsteps.

Zelenskyy stresses that the Kremlin’s operational math was fundamentally flawed from day one: - **Manpower requirements:** Capturing and holding a hostile city of millions, while securing the towns along the supply corridor, would have required a occupying force of 300,000 to 400,000 troops—at least double what Russia deployed. - **The cost of civilian resistance:** An invading force can bypass garrisons only if the occupied population remains passive; the moment citizens actively fight back, every single town demands an entire garrison to suppress rebellion. - As Zelenskyy puts it bluntly: “They didn't even realize there would be resistance. That's it. That was their mistake.”

---

[01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4200s) The Lesson of Crimea 2014: Why Putin Expected No Fight

Reflecting on the psychological origins of Putin’s miscalculation, Zelenskyy traces it back to the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014. In Crimea, a region with two to three million inhabitants, the Kremlin deployed only dozens or at most hundreds of masked soldiers without insignia—the so-called "little green men"—and seized control virtually without firing a shot because nobody mounted an armed defense. This easy takeover taught Putin the dangerous, false lesson that Ukraine would never stand up to armed aggression.

Zelenskyy notes a point of genuine agreement with Donald Trump regarding the handling of the 2014 invasion. He explains that had Ukraine and the international community struck back with decisive force when those first Russian soldiers appeared, the full-scale invasion of 2022 might never have materialized. Zelenskyy states: “On this, I agree with President Trump. Not because I'm blaming anyone, no. It's just that dozens of people went into Crimea, dozens. For a country like this, that's zero, that's nothing.” Because Russia faced no military resistance back then—even while brazenly claiming the operatives were not Russian soldiers—Putin convinced himself that capturing Kyiv in 2022 would be equally trivial, entirely unprepared for a nation that met invading columns with total resistance.

---

[01:12:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4347s) The Pivotal Battle for Antonov Airport in Hostomel

Bartlett turns to what many military analysts consider the true turning point in the defense of Kyiv: the ferocious battle for Antonov Airport in Hostomel. Zelenskyy outlines the classic decapitation strategy the Russians attempted to execute. The objective was to paralyze the capital by blockading road access, taking down television broadcasting towers to shut down information flow, and capturing key airfields near the city so that heavy transport aircraft could rapidly land massive echelons of elite airborne troops, weapons, and heavy armor right on Kyiv's doorstep.

Hostomel became the center of this clash when elite Russian airborne forces (VDV) conducted a daring helicopter assault and initially seized the runway. Ukrainian National Guard units and special operations forces responded immediately with brutal, relentless counterattacks. The airfield changed hands repeatedly in close-quarters combat. Crucially, Ukrainian defenders deliberately shelled and demolished their own runway while air defense units brought down several Russian transport helicopters, rendering the airfield unusable for heavy Il-76 transport planes carrying reinforcements. Asked how the war would have unfolded had Russia retained the airfield, Zelenskyy does not sugarcoat the stakes: “They could, likely, they could have, they could have taken most of the capital. They could have broken through and captured it. That's true. That was an utterly heroic battle.”

[01:15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4500s) The Battle for the Towns Around Kyiv and the Horrors of Bucha

Volodymyr Zelenskyy reflects on the early, pivotal clashes in the small towns encircling Kyiv—Hostomel, Moshchun, and adjacent settlements—where Ukrainian forces engaged in a desperate fight for survival. Because regular army formations could not immediately cover every axis, units of the National Guard stepped into the breach, holding off advancing Russian columns in an utterly heroic effort until reinforcements arrived. Yet the true horror of the invasion became undeniable in Bucha. Once the Russian forces occupied the town, they unleashed systematic terror and genocide. Ukrainian forces later uncovered mass graves containing approximately 500 tortured civilians with their hands tied behind their backs, buried in shallow pits.

Beyond the executions, Zelenskyy emphasizes the barbaric nature of the occupation forces, whom he describes as scavengers driven by pure looting. Russian soldiers broke into private residences, murdered residents, and stripped homes of household appliances, hauling away refrigerators, microwaves, and television sets. Widespread sexual violence accompanied systematic torture. Upon the liberation of these towns, Zelenskyy made the deliberate decision not to touch the crime scenes until international journalists arrived, insisting that the entire world witness the dead bodies of children, adults, and the elderly lying abandoned on the pavements.

The president recounts an encounter with an elderly man who had lived through the Nazi occupation of Bucha during World War II. The survivor noted a chilling contrast: while the German forces were brutal occupiers, they had not subjected local civilians to the senseless, sadistic hunting sprees and torture inflicted by modern Russian troops, who shot civilians and household animals from armored vehicles for amusement. Witnessing these atrocities permanently altered Ukrainian society:

> “People understood what this war was and what Putin did personally when we found those mass graves.”

[01:19:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4790s) Why a Ceasefire and Negotiations Are a "Huge Compromise"

Zelenskyy addresses rhetoric from international politicians, including former U.S. President Donald Trump, who insist that Ukraine must sit down and find a compromise. For Ukrainians who lived through the terror of occupation, simply agreeing to a ceasefire or freezing the frontline is an agonizingly bitter sacrifice. The deep hatred felt toward the Russian military is not an abstract political emotion; it stems directly from parents having to bury tortured children and entire families being wiped out.

No outside leader or government can compel a population that has endured such atrocities to forgive their abusers. While political leaders may discuss lines on a map, real peace cannot be achieved without time, accountability, and genuine justice. Zelenskyy explains that he has repeatedly tried to convey this reality to American leadership:

> “A ceasefire and sitting down at the negotiating table, there's a huge compromise.”

[01:21:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4868s) The Hardest Day: Standing in Bucha and Feeling Pure Revenge

When asked to name his single hardest day throughout the years of full-scale war, Zelenskyy points without hesitation to his first visit to newly liberated Bucha. He had spent his entire life in a civilian world where people made mistakes and conflicts were resolved through reason or forgiveness. Seeing human bodies scattered across streets and dumped in pits—mutilated like butchered meat—shattered that worldview entirely.

Facing that level of demonic cruelty triggered a primal response he had never experienced before: a visceral desire for vengeance. Standing over the bodies of murdered civilians, the urge to personally track down the perpetrators and kill them eclipsed everything else. Yet as a head of state, he is forced to govern that rage, compose himself, and adopt a diplomatic posture. He rejects the cynical notion that the international community can simply forgive Moscow, normalize relations, and resume trading in oil and natural gas:

> “I mean, I had never wanted to kill a single human being. I had never felt anything like that... pure revenge.”

[01:23:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5023s) Irreversible Change, the Meaning of "Just Peace," and Loneliness in Leadership

The trauma of leading a country through wartime atrocities irreversibly alters a person's inner life. Zelenskyy observes that his prior life and his current existence are two entirely distinct worlds governed by fundamentally different values. He stresses that an end to the war is meaningless without a "just peace"—one where the perpetrators are formally brought to trial and punished. Without legal and moral justice, the void left in families whose loved ones were murdered will never heal, inevitably fueling uncontrolled personal vendettas and future violence.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: The Cycle from Atrocity to Sustainable Peace accDescr: Diagram illustrating how accountability and justice are required to prevent personal revenge and achieve genuine peace.

subgraph Atrocity["Wartime Reality"] A["Liberation of Atrocity Sites (Bucha Mass Graves)"] --> B["Deep Trauma & Visceral Urge for Revenge"] end

subgraph FlawedPath["False Resolution"] B --> C["Premature Ceasefire & Business as Usual"] C --> D["Unhealed Wounds & Cycles of Retaliation"] end

subgraph JustPath["True Resolution"] B --> E["Accountability & Trials ('Just Peace')"] E --> F["Moral Solace for Families"] F --> G["Long-term Stability & Authentic Peace"] end ```

On a personal level, the war has brought profound loneliness. While his pre-war life was surrounded by friends, colleagues, business, and normal social connections, wartime leadership isolates him behind the crushing weight of existential responsibility. When asked what his wife, First Lady Olena Zelenska, would say about how he has changed, he admits she often reminds him of how deeply altered he is. Even when his family is physically present, the ingrained habit of relentless work and hyper-focus on the war makes it difficult to mentally step away:

> “Even when they're near, I miss them sometimes, meaning... I chose my own path. And of course, I didn't choose the war, but I chose this path.”

[01:27:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5238s) Fatherhood, Stolen Childhoods, and Staying Connected

Zelenskyy laments that an entire generation of Ukrainian youth, including his own children, has been forced to grow up overnight. His daughter is no longer a child but a grown young woman, and he notes with a trace of humor that her English has surpassed his own. He considers her a close friend, yet feels a deep sadness that her formative adolescent years were defined by air raid sirens, destruction, and separation.

Despite the constant pressures of statecraft, he attempts to preserve connections with his children through phone calls, video chats, and brief meetings whenever time allows. While building businesses in his earlier life often created distance from loved ones, attempting to maintain genuine emotional presence as a father while defending an invaded nation represents an entirely incomparable burden. Nevertheless, he insists that his core faith in the future remains unshaken:

> “And all the children of Ukraine, and it's true, I've said this, the children of Ukraine grew up during the war.”

[01:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5400s) Realizing What Matters: Family and Marriage Under Wartime Strain

Reflecting on how personal priorities shift during a crisis, Volodymyr Zelenskyy discusses the illusion of being constantly consumed by work versus true, meaningful presence. Having worked intensely since he was 18, he acknowledges that in business and public life, personal relationships often get pushed into the background as professional ambitions swallow everything whole. However, the visceral horrors of war and the constant threat to survival have completely overturned that outlook. The brutal imagery of the conflict forced an immediate reevaluation: career accomplishments, business, and politics all pale in comparison to human life and the loved ones who remain by your side.

When asked about his wife, Olena Zelenska, Zelenskyy describes her as a steady anchor throughout the chaos of wartime leadership. Their bond is grounded not in superficial public roles, but in deep mutual respect, enduring affection, and an authentic intellectual connection. In his view, the essential foundation of any enduring partnership is that both partners never stop being genuinely intrigued and stimulated by each other.

> “And this reevaluation from this war and these images and these horrific moments definitely shows me that business is secondary. Everything is secondary. These people right here, that's what matters most.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

> “I think that's the most important thing, people need to find each other interesting. And we find each other very interesting.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

[01:32:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5530s) Daily Check-ins: Twelve Missed Calls from His Mother

Zelenskyy shares an affectionate, relatable window into his family dynamic, noting that his parents remain in Ukraine and that his mother reaches out with relentless regularity. Regardless of the geopolitical gravity of his schedule, she calls him practically every single day, refusing to stop dialing until he finally answers the phone. Whenever he glances down at his screen during a packed schedule of war briefings and diplomatic negotiations, he frequently discovers up to a dozen missed calls waiting for him.

When he finally answers, her opening line is not about military strategy, but sheer surprise that her son actually picked up. Beneath the persistent pestering lies an anxious mother worried sick about his well-being, his children, and the impossible weight resting on his shoulders. Her conversations always circle back to the same urgent, heartfelt maternal inquiries about how he is holding up and when the invasion will finally be brought to an end.

> “She'll call you all day long until I pick up. So we make sure to speak once a day. She asks, 'How I'm feeling?' And is she worried about you? Oh, yeah.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

> “Mom, I'm working. I tell her 12 calls. How can you call someone so many times?” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

- His mother calls continuously throughout the day until he answers, regularly leaving as many as 12 missed calls. - Her routine questions focus on his health, his fatigue, the welfare of the grandchildren, and when Vladimir Putin will end the war. - Zelenskyy's standard response to comfort her remains: “Mom, we're doing everything we can.”

[01:33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5586s) The Frontline Map: 18 to 19 Percent Under Occupation

Attempting to provide a clear picture of the situation on the ground for an international audience, Zelenskyy sketches out a map illustrating the occupied territories across the south and east. Russia seized Crimea in 2014 and proceeded to annex coastal areas during the full-scale invasion, effectively converting the Sea of Azov into a Russian inland sea by capturing Mariupol and Berdyansk, while cutting off Kerch. He highlights the humanitarian crisis in occupied towns like Oleshky on the left bank of the Dnipro River, where around 2,500 civilians and children were left trapped without access to food, isolated by Russian forces blocking humanitarian corridors.

Tracing the frontlines through Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, he explains that while Ukrainian forces successfully fought back and liberated the city of Kherson, the front remains divided by the Dnipro River, exposing residents on the Ukrainian-controlled side to constant, deadly artillery barrages from Russian positions on the opposite bank. In aggregate, the territories under Russian control—encompassing Crimea, swaths of the Donbas (Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts), and southern defense corridors—amount to approximately 18 to 19 percent of Ukraine's total sovereign landmass.

> “All of this is roughly 18 to 19 percent of our territory. That's roughly, roughly it.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Territorial control and frontlines in southern and eastern Ukraine accDescr: Diagram illustrating Russian-controlled areas, contested boundary lines, and key liberated Ukrainian hubs.

subgraph Occupied["Russian-Controlled (18-19% of Territory)"] direction TB CR["Crimea"] AZ["Sea of Azov Coastline (Mariupol & Berdyansk)"] LU["Luhansk & Donetsk Oblasts (Parts of the Donbas)"] OL["Oleshky (Left bank: 2,500 civilians trapped)"] end

subgraph Frontline["The Dividing Line (Dnipro River & Contact Line)"] direction TB DNP["Dnipro River Division (Heavy artillery shelling across banks)"] end

subgraph Liberated["Ukrainian-Controlled Frontline Hubs"] direction TB KH["Kherson City (Liberated major regional capital)"] ZP["Zaporizhzhia City (Under Ukrainian control)"] end

Occupied -.-> DNP DNP -.-> Liberated ```

[01:35:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5759s) Nationwide Missile Strikes and Strategic Targets

Beyond the active trenches and static contact lines, Russia continuously wages an aerial campaign using long-range cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and suicide drones against civilian and infrastructure targets far behind the front. Zelenskyy points out strikes in western regions such as Lutsk, along with consistent bombardments of Kyiv, Zhytomyr, and Odesa. He recounts visiting the aftermath of a devastating strike alongside a British secretary, where 23 people were killed in an instant.

While western cities like Rivne and Lviv experience comparatively fewer massive barrages due to their geographic distance from the Russian border and the contact line, nowhere in the country remains entirely immune. Russia’s overarching operational aim behind targeting ports like Odesa and southern cities like Mykolaiv is to degrade Ukraine's economy, terrorize civilian populations, and coerce the Ukrainian military into pulling back completely from the fortified defense networks in the east.

> “Well, honestly, you could point everywhere here. They've already started today. Right here, they kill people in Lutsk. That's the western part of our country. Right here, a missile struck and they're hitting Kyiv.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

[01:37:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5822s) What Putin Demands and the Peril of Concessions

Dissecting Moscow's actual territorial ambitions, Zelenskyy underscores that Russian negotiators and backchannels demand full Ukrainian capitulation across the eastern region. Russia's strategic sights are locked onto the heavily fortified belt of Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, and Druzhkivka. These fortified strongholds serve as the gateway directly into the Dnipropetrovsk region—threatening industrial and engineering centers like Pavlohrad, Dnipro, Nikopol, and Zelenskyy's hometown of Kryvyi Rih, which represent the beating heart of Ukraine's domestic manufacturing economy.

Handing over these deeply fortified defense lines in exchange for an unverified pause in fighting would invite total catastrophe. A ceasefire under current conditions is already the maximum compromise Ukraine could ever contemplate after absorbing hundreds of thousands of casualties. Surrendering fortified positions without ironclad security guarantees—such as full NATO integration—would simply leave the nation undefended when Moscow decides to launch its next offensive.

> “And if we hand these cities of ours over to them, then the risk is huge. If he wants to keep going, he could seize everything.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

> “On top of that, like I told you, the biggest compromise with so many dead, the biggest compromise we're already making is a ceasefire. Let's just stop this war. But they want us to pull out even further. And if we pull out, where are the security guarantees?” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

- Russia specifically demands the handover of Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, and Druzhkivka in the Donbas. - Ceding these fortresses opens a direct military vector into Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, jeopardizing key manufacturing centers like Pavlohrad, Nikopol, and Kryvyi Rih. - Zelenskyy insists that without firm security guarantees like NATO membership, any territorial withdrawal would be an invitation to further invasion.

[01:39:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5964s) Assessing the Risk of Russian Nuclear Escalation

Addressing whether Moscow's brutality might culminate in the deployment of tactical or strategic nuclear weapons, Zelenskyy concedes that Russian atrocities force everyone to contemplate the worst possible outcomes. The demonstrated disregard for human life and international law creates perpetual unease about what weapons the Kremlin might turn to if conventional methods stall.

Nevertheless, based on present intelligence and strategic calculations, he evaluates the probability of Russia deploying nuclear weapons as unlikely. Crossing the nuclear threshold would permanently alienate the few remaining diplomatic partners and neutral nations that Moscow relies upon for economic survival, completely shattering any remaining global alliances and leaving the Russian regime entirely isolated.

> “Well, it crosses everyone's mind after what they've done that they might do something worse. But as of today, well, I don't think they'll take the risk of using nuclear weapons, because then I think they won't definitely, I'm sure they won't have any allies left.” — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

[01:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6000s) Nuclear Deterrence, Russian Power, and Trump's Diesel Accusations

Addressing whether Vladimir Putin would ever risk using nuclear weapons, Volodymyr Zelenskyy explains that the danger extends far beyond the immediate region to global nuclear powers like the United States and China. If any nation normalizes the operational use of a nuclear weapon, it breaks an absolute taboo, signaling to the rest of the world—whether in the Middle East or across another theater—that such weapons can be deployed repeatedly. For this reason, Zelenskyy argues Putin will not take that risk. However, the fundamental problem remains the nature of the Russian regime itself: a system inextricably bound to one man. Zelenskyy observes that Putin will retain absolute control until his dying breath, insisting that only physical death will compel him to leave the Kremlin or allow any natural transfer of power.

The discussion shifts abruptly to recent developments involving Donald Trump, energy markets, and direct pressure placed on Kyiv. Steven plays a clip of Trump criticizing Zelenskyy, claiming that the war could have been avoided or settled, that Russia supplies crucial diesel globally, and that Ukraine's strikes on Russian refineries are directly hurting American farmers and ranchers. In the clip, Trump warns that Zelenskyy had "better damn well stop" and suggests Ukraine needs a new president.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Energy Strike and Retaliation Dynamics accDescr: Diagram illustrating the cycle of Russian strikes on Ukraine's grid, Ukrainian retaliation against diesel refineries, and diplomatic friction. subgraph RussiaAction["Russian Assault"] A["Strikes Ukrainian Grid"] --> B["Ukrainian Civilians Lose Electricity"] end subgraph UkraineResponse["Ukrainian Response"] B --> C["Retaliatory Strikes on Russian Refineries"] C --> D["Impairs Russian Diesel Revenue used for Weapons"] end subgraph DiplomaticFallout["Geopolitical Blame"] D --> E["Trump Blames Ukraine for Global Diesel Costs"] E --> F["Refusal of Energy Ceasefire & Air Defense Misallocation"] end ```

Zelenskyy forcefully dismantles this narrative. He stresses that the volume of Russian diesel exports has virtually no bearing on domestic fuel prices within the United States, calling the claim completely false. Ukraine's strikes on refineries are not wanton economic sabotage; they are strictly retaliatory:

> “It makes no sense for us to strike Russia's energy infrastructure. We retaliate because they strike our energy infrastructure.”

Russia targets Ukraine’s electrical grid, leaving civilians in the dark and cold, while selling diesel to finance weapons of war. Zelenskyy recounts repeatedly proposing a bilateral energy ceasefire to Trump—urging him to broker a deal where both sides halt attacks on energy infrastructure entirely to give ordinary people light. Yet because Putin refused to accept an energy truce, Trump deflected the failure onto Kyiv instead. Zelenskyy notes the unfairness of the situation, particularly given the disruption in the Middle East and the Strait of Hormuz, where the true global energy bottlenecks lie.

- Russian diesel export volumes are negligible relative to US domestic pricing dynamics. - Ukrainian strikes on refineries directly target the revenue streams Russia converts into munitions. - A proposed energy ceasefire would have halted strikes on both sides, but Putin rejected it. - Global fuel pressures stem heavily from Iranian disruptions and the blocked Strait of Hormuz, not Ukrainian defense actions.

---

[01:45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6300s) Air Defense Inequities and the Path to Ending the War

Zelenskyy outlines the double standard Ukraine faces regarding defense supplies. Having offered to stop hitting Russian refineries if Ukraine were provided adequate air defense missiles to protect its own power grid, he notes that Ukraine was not even asking for them as charity: European allies had agreed to fund the purchases. Instead, Ukraine was told the systems were unavailable, while massive shipments of Patriot missile batteries were routed to the Middle East. Describing the absurdity of being told not to retaliate while being denied the tools to defend against aerial bombardment, Zelenskyy points out that domestic surveys indicate roughly 76% of Ukrainians oppose holding elections during wartime, rejecting external suggestions that the country simply needs new leadership.

When asked whether a realistic path to ending the war exists, Zelenskyy insists that Trump holds the leverage to bring Putin to the negotiating table swiftly—provided he changes his posture:

> “Trump can bring Putin to the negotiating table very easily. Because he needs to—the way he talks about me, President Trump—he needs to adopt that kind of rhetoric about Putin.”

Zelenskyy reflects on why this has not happened, noting that while Congress voted for severe sanctions that sit ready on Trump's desk, Trump has chosen not to wield them with that intensity. While Steven speculates that upcoming midterm elections and domestic fuel prices might dictate American posture, Zelenskyy reiterates that US energy companies operate privately and export without presidential bans, meaning domestic prices are governed by broader market realities rather than Russian export levels. Convinced that truth and transparency prevail over political maneuvering, Zelenskyy notes that time remains on the side of those who fight openly and honestly.

- Around 76% of Ukrainian citizens surveyed oppose holding national elections during active wartime conditions. - Congressional sanctions packages remain fully available for executive deployment against Russia. - Patriot missile allocations have heavily prioritized Middle Eastern security requirements over Ukrainian grid defense.

---

[01:48:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6489s) Final Message to America and Reflections on Global Turmoil

Asked for his final thoughts to an audience where roughly half the viewers reside in the United States, Zelenskyy quips that he hopes these are only his "last words for today" rather than the end of his life. Turning serious, he expresses deep empathy for the American people during an era of global volatility:

> “I wish America, which finds itself in a very tough situation, I believe because the world has gone crazy... I wish America would stay a great nation, be strong, be peaceful, have the chance—someone works, someone wants to be home with the kids, pray, have a family dinner. I wish America tranquility, peace, and we're grateful for everything America has done for Ukraine. We won't forget this.”

Steven concludes the conversation by acknowledging the immense strain under which the interview occurred, citing the difficult week of military developments, technical disruptions involving Starlink, and internet connectivity hurdles. Both express mutual gratitude for an open, substantive dialogue amid ongoing adversity.

## Notable quotes > [25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1500s) Empires don't survive on freedom. — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

> [46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2808s) Trump's presidency would have ended and Putin still wouldn't have been able to change his main goal: the occupation of Ukraine. So I think that honestly, it doesn't matter who the president is, as long as Putin is there. — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

> [25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1500s) The fish tank can be massive like the Soviet Union, but it's still a fish tank. — Volodymyr Zelenskyy

## Mentioned Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Steven Bartlett, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Olena Zelenska, Andrzej Duda, Vladimir Lenin, Servant of the People, Paddington Bear, Dancing with the Stars, Hero of Ukraine, Kyivan Rus, Soviet Union, KGB, CIA, NATO, Patriot missile system, Starlink, United States Congress, National Guard of Ukraine, Russian Airborne Forces (VDV), Bucha, Hostomel, Antonov Airport, Moshchun, Kyiv, Khreshchatyk, Independence Square (Maidan Nezalezhnosti), Chornobyl, Crimea, Donbas, Chechnya, Sea of Azov, Mariupol, Berdyansk, Oleshky, Dnipro River, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Lutsk, Zhytomyr, Odesa, Rivne, Lviv, Mykolaiv, Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, Druzhkivka, Pavlohrad, Dnipro, Nikopol, Kryvyi Rih, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Strait of Hormuz

## Video description What does it truly cost a human being to lead a nation through an existential war while the world watches from afar? President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reveals the psychological toll of continuous survival, the grim realities of geopolitical negotiation, and what keeps him still standing.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy is the President of Ukraine, having led the nation through its darkest historical hours following the full-scale Russian invasion in 2022. A former lawyer, comedian, and actor turned wartime leader, he transitioned from satirical television to the global stage. His current administration focuses on securing Ukraine's sovereignty, managing international diplomacy, and defending democratic freedom against imperial aggression.

In this episode, he explains: ■ The Burden of Command: How constant psychological pressure and nightly military briefings push his endurance to its limits under relentless wartime pressure. ■ The Fatal Miscalculation: Why Russia's catastrophic military mistake came from a failure to recognize Ukrainians as a distinct people willing to fight for their freedom. ■ The Turning Point of Atrocity: How witnessing the aftermath of war in liberated towns transformed a political conflict into deeply personal tragedy where easy forgiveness became impossible. ■ The Cost of Staying: Why the refusal to evacuate Kyiv was driven by the absolute need to remain visible and prevent the nation from surrendering out of fear. ■ The Geopolitical Reality: How true diplomatic peace requires holding aggressive regimes fully accountable for their crimes rather than shifting the blame onto global energy markets.

This episode was recorded on October 16, 2026.

00:00 Intro 02:07 How Is Zelensky Really Doing? 06:15 "I Don't Sleep": The Human Cost of War 09:53 What Keeps Zelensky Going 11:24 Growing Up in Soviet Ukraine 13:18 His Family Killed by the Nazis 13:38 From Law Student to Comedian 15:50 He Played a President on TV, Then Became One 17:21 Why Zelensky Left Comedy for Politics 20:24 When Did the Russia-Ukraine War Really Start? 24:59 Putin's Plan to Rebuild the Soviet Union 33:19 Why Putin Invaded in 2022 36:34 Did Biden's Weakness Let Putin Invade? 40:00 The Warnings Before the Invasion 41:46 Where Zelensky Was When Russia Invaded 46:48 Would This Have Happened Under Trump? 48:53 How Russia Planned to Take Kyiv 53:19 The 40-Mile Convoy: Why Russia Failed 55:13 Biden's Evacuation Offer: "I Need Ammunition" 59:38 Was Zelensky Scared? 1:02:24 The Moment the War Became Real 1:05:07 Russia's Big Mistake: Parade Uniforms 1:12:27 The Battle for Hostomel Airport 1:14:51 What Happened in Bucha 1:21:08 His Hardest Day: "I Wanted Revenge" 1:23:43 How the War Has Changed Him 1:29:02 Being a Father During the War 1:32:10 His Mum's Daily Phone Calls 1:33:06 Map: What Russia Occupies Now 1:35:59 Russia's Strikes Across Ukraine 1:37:02 What Putin Really Wants 1:39:24 Will Putin Use Nuclear Weapons? 1:40:56 Trump Says Ukraine Needs a New President 1:45:48 How This War Ends: Trump, Putin & a Ceasefire 1:48:09 Zelensky's Message to America

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[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58)

中文简报

泽连斯基总统：和平是巨大的妥协，揭露俄军战争罪行的骇人暴行！乌克兰总统弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基回顾了自己从苏联时期的童年、喜剧演员生涯，到带领乌克兰应对全面入侵的历程，详细讲述了他决定留在基辅并拒绝外国撤离提议的经过。他回忆了早期争夺霍斯托梅尔和首都的军事战斗、发现布恰俄军暴行所带来的沉重创伤，以及在睡眠破碎的日常中协调防空工作的艰辛。针对当前的地缘政治压力，泽连斯基分析了弗拉基米尔·普京的帝国野心，反驳了唐纳德·特朗普关于乌克兰炼油厂袭击和作战战术的说法，并解释了为何在没有牢不可破的安全保障下进行领土退让只会招致进一步的侵略。在整个过程中，他强调停火本身已是巨大的妥协，必须与追究战争罪行的真正正义并行。在俄罗斯发动全面入侵之初，弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基总统拒绝了西方提出的撤离提议，选择留在基辅指挥防御；与此同时，国内志愿者的动员迅速将乌克兰军队从20万人扩大到约80万人。 (0:00) 目前俄罗斯占领了乌克兰约18%至19%的领土，莫斯科持续提出的和平要求坚持要乌方交出斯洛维扬斯克、克拉马托尔斯克和德鲁日基夫卡等尚未被占领的防御堡垒。 (93:06) 泽连斯基坚决拒绝迅速让步或冻结前线的呼吁；在布恰等收复城市发现广泛的平民屠杀和酷刑之后，他认为任何无条件的停火都是巨大的妥协。 (79:50) 乌克兰对俄罗斯炼油厂的反击是对其电网遭破坏所采取的防御措施，泽连斯基指出，他此前曾提议双方互不攻击能源设施的停火协议，但遭到了莫斯科的拒绝。 (100:00)

Reading summary

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy argues that an unconditioned ceasefire or territorial concession represents an agonizing compromise for a traumatized nation, warning that Vladimir Putin's imperial ambitions will persist regardless of who occupies foreign offices. Imperial Ambition and Lessons from 2014 (27:30) Zelenskyy traces the origin of the conflict to Vladimir Putin's Soviet nostalgia and imperial worldview, which regards Ukraine not as a separate sovereign nation, but as an indispensable intellectual and industrial powerhouse required to restore the Russian empire. Rejecting Moscow's revisionist claims that Ukraine was an artificial construct born in 1917, Zelenskyy points to the thousand-year heritage of Kyivan Rus, which flourished centuries before Moscow existed. He contends that autocratic empires inevitably collapse once subject populations encounter open, democratic societies, making Ukraine's European integration an existential threat to Putin's domestic control. He identifies Ukraine's failure to militarily resist the 2014 annexation of Crimea as a catastrophic turning point. Because Russian forces covertly seized Crimea without drawing an armed Ukrainian response, the Kremlin concluded that a wider invasion would meet negligible resistance. This miscalculation led Russian high command to expect a three-day collapse in February 2022, prompting vanguard units to advance with ceremonial dress uniforms intended for victory parades on Kyiv's Independence Square. Decapitation Strategy and the Battle for Kyiv (72:27) When roughly 200,000 Russian troops launched a multi-front invasion in February 2022, the operational priority was the rapid decapitation of the Ukrainian government. As Russian forces advanced down the northern corridor toward Bankova Street, international leaders—led by U.S. President Joe Biden—offered to evacuate Zelenskyy and his family. Zelenskyy refused, declaring he needed ammunition rather than transport, and operated from a fortified bunker while making regular street appearances to dismantle Russian disinformation claiming he had fled. This defiance stimulated a mobilization that expanded Ukraine's armed forces from 200,000 to approximately 800,000. Zelenskyy identifies the defense of Antonov Airport in Hostomel as the critical military turning point around the capital. Elite Russian airborne units attempted to capture the airfield to establish an airbridge for heavy transport planes laden with armor and reinforcements. Ukrainian forces responded with relentless counterattacks, deliberately destroying their own runways to deny Russian landings and repelling the assault. Zelenskyy dismisses alternative explanations—such as Donald Trump's claim that a single commander's wrong turn into muddy farmland doomed the advance—noting that Russian forces were methodically blocked, ambushed, and contested across northern settlements by military units and armed civilians alike. Human Toll, Atrocities, and Genuine Justice (79:50) For Ukrainians, Zelenskyy explains, simply pausing the conflict or entering negotiations without accountability constitutes an enormous compromise. His perspective was permanently altered upon visiting liberated Bucha, where Ukrainian authorities discovered mass graves containing approximately 500 tortured civilians with their hands tied behind their backs, accompanied by widespread looting and sexual violence. Witnessing such brutality provoked a visceral desire for vengeance, which he insists must be governed and channeled into formal international justice. Zelenskyy asserts that a sustainable peace cannot exist on paper alone while grieving families lack accountability for murdered loved ones. Postponing or bypassing legal trials risks fostering long-term vigilante retaliation. He contrasts the public and diplomatic duties of the presidency with the unbearable domestic agony borne by citizens, such as bereaved parents receiving posthumous Hero of Ukraine honors or families who watched their children die in missile strikes on neighborhood playgrounds. Frontline Defense, Nuclear Risks, and Allied Support (93:06) Russian forces currently occupy approximately 18 to 19 percent of Ukrainian territory, encompassing Crimea, large swaths of Donetsk and Luhansk, and southern corridors across the Dnipro River. Zelenskyy emphasizes that Moscow continues to demand the handover of the fortified defense belt spanning Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, and Druzhkivka. Conceding these fortifications would leave central industrial hubs such as Dnipro, Pavlohrad, and Kryvyi Rih completely vulnerable to future offensives without any meaningful deterrent. While assessing the likelihood of Russian nuclear escalation as low—largely because crossing that threshold would alienate remaining neutral trading partners and break a global taboo—Zelenskyy criticizes strategic double standards in allied defense assistance. He questions why Ukraine was pressured to halt strikes on Russian oil refineries and denied air defense missile purchases while systems were routed to the Middle East. Furthermore, while Donald Trump has suggested Ukraine needs new leadership, Zelenskyy cites domestic polling showing roughly 76 percent of Ukrainians oppose wartime elections, asserting that Trump holds the leverage to force negotiations swiftly if he adopts a similarly firm posture directly against Putin. Zelenskyy maintains that enduring peace cannot be secured through unreciprocated territorial concessions or premature freezes that reward aggression. While acknowledging the fatigue of global partners and expressing gratitude for American support, he argues that deterrence requires continuous military supplies, judicial accountability for war crimes, and confronting the imperial ambitions driving the Russian leadership.

精炼阅读摘要

乌克兰总统弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基（Volodymyr Zelenskyy）指出，俄乌战争是俄罗斯企图重建帝国的必然结果；对经历惨重伤亡的乌克兰而言，单方面停火已是巨大妥协，唯有建立在司法追责与安全保障基础上的“正义和平”，才能真正终结冲突并阻断侵略循环。帝国野心与苏联怀旧：战争的历史根源 (25:00) 泽连斯基将俄方的侵略置于帝国兴衰的客观规律中剖析。他指出，历史上的帝国皆依靠专制与封闭维持统治，一旦民众接触到外部世界的自由，帝国便不可避免走向解体。在泽连斯基看来，普京带有深刻的苏联克格勃烙印，将苏联解体视作地缘灾难，并抱有重建帝国的执念。乌克兰曾是苏联的“人才熔炉”，提供了核心工程师、火箭制造技术和工业根基；乌克兰迈向民主与欧盟一体化，直接粉碎了莫斯科重塑势力范围的图谋。针对普京所谓的“去纳粹化”和现代乌克兰由列宁捏造的言论，泽连斯基予以严厉驳斥。他援引二战历史指出，乌克兰全境曾遭纳粹占领并付出数百万生命，其曾祖父与多位亲属均惨遭屠杀。乌克兰直接承续拥有千余年文明的基辅罗斯，而当时莫斯科公国尚不存在。他强调，战争实际始于2014年克里米亚危机，当时俄方以保护俄语人口为借口派遣无标识武装蚕食领土，乌方未在边境果断动武反击，使普京得出乌克兰不会武装抵抗的致命误判，最终诱发了2022年的全面侵略。基辅保卫战：从速胜幻觉到全民抵抗 (65:07) 回顾2022年2月24日全面入侵之初，泽连斯基透露俄军意图通过多路突袭迅速攻占基辅并颠覆政权。莫斯科部署了约15万至20万兵力，企图在乌军精锐防守顿巴斯东线之际，利用白俄罗斯走廊南下实施斩首。然而俄方陷入了速胜幻觉：先头部队仅携带3至10天口粮，坦克内甚至装有准备在基辅独立广场举行胜利阅兵的礼服。针对特朗普关于“俄军因将领拐入泥潭才错失一日灭乌”的说辞，泽连斯基反驳称，战局取决于整体抵抗而非偶然失误，俄军装甲部队在首都被全线伏击，平民甚至自发投掷燃烧瓶阻截敌军。泽连斯基将霍斯托梅尔（安东诺夫机场）争夺战视作决定基辅命运的关键转折。当时俄空降兵突袭夺取跑道，企图以此作为重型运输机运送精锐与装甲的核心枢纽。乌军在激烈交火中果断炮击并摧毁自身跑道，击落多架直升机，彻底挫败俄军空中增援计划。面对美总统拜登等西方领袖提出的撤离提议，泽连斯基以“我需要弹药而非搭车”予以回绝，选择留守基辅地堡并持续在街头录制公开视频击碎逃亡谣言。这种坚守激发了全国抵抗决心，使乌克兰正规与志愿兵员迅速扩充至约80万人。布查惨案与人道代价：正义和平不可或缺 (79:50) 面对外界关于立即停火与妥协的施压，泽连斯基强调不可忽视乌克兰人承受的毁灭性人道灾难。在解放布查等周边城镇后，乌方发现了埋有约500名平民的万人坑，受害者生前双手被反绑、饱受残酷虐待，伴随着全城掠夺与性暴力。泽连斯基坦言，目睹布查街头堆积的平民遗体是他任内最艰难的一天，一度激发起前所未有的纯粹复仇冲动。然而作为国家元首，他必须克制个人愤怒推进外交，但他坚决拒绝国际社会在未追究战争罪责任的情况下重归旧态、继续与莫斯科开展油气贸易。泽连斯基直言，对于痛失亲人的乌克兰民众而言，仅坐在谈判桌前同意冻结战线，本身就已是一场极其苦涩的“巨大妥协”。日夜不停的导弹空袭迫使整整一代乌克兰儿童在防空洞中成长。他强调，没有法律与道德追责的停火无法带来长久和平，若战争罪犯未能被正式送上法庭审判，受害者家庭的心灵创伤将演变为不可控的私力复仇与未来冲突。因此，乌克兰坚守的核心底线是必须实现兼具正义与审判的“正义和平”（Just Peace）。领土现状与防空博弈：要塞存废与外部压力 (93:06) 在当前战场态势上，泽连斯基指认俄军目前占领了乌克兰约18%至19%的主权领土，封锁了亚速海出海口，并持续跨第聂伯河对赫尔松等解放区实施炮击。他揭示了莫斯科在非正式渠道中的核心要价：要求乌方全面放弃东部顿巴斯地区，交出斯洛维扬斯克与克拉马托尔斯克等重度设防的要塞带。泽连斯基警告，这些要塞是掩护第聂伯罗彼得罗夫斯克州工业心脏（包括其家乡克里沃罗格等制造重镇）的防线；若在缺乏加入北约等铁律级安全保障下弃守，将给未来的全面入侵敞开大门。泽连斯基进一步指责西方在支援中的双重标准与战略脱节。乌方曾承诺若能获得充足防空导弹以保护本国电网，愿停止袭击俄境内炼油厂，且采购资金已由欧洲盟友承担，却遭拒称系统紧缺，而大批爱国者导弹却被转运至中东；乌方甚至反遭指责打击炼油厂推高了美国能源成本。针对核威胁，泽连斯基评估普京动用核武的概率极低，因破除核禁忌将彻底失去包括中立国在内的全部外部伙伴。针对特朗普宣称能快速调停战事的说法，泽连斯基认为特朗普握有关键筹码，但前提是必须将对乌克兰的施压姿态完全转向普京，方能实质迫使其重返谈判。泽连斯基的陈述勾勒出乌克兰将抵抗定性为捍卫国家存亡与国际法秩序的双重努力。然而，东线坚固防线的存废抉择、西方关键防空武器供应的政治博弈、战时体制下乌克兰国内坚决反对草率举行大选（民调显示约76%反对）的政治现实，以及大国领导层更迭带来的不确定性，使得这场关乎“妥协”与“正义”的博弈依然充满未决风险。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 该视频由 YouTube 知名商业与访谈频道 The Diary Of A CEO（主持人为 Steven Bartlett）于 2026 年 10 月 22 日发布，录制于 2026 年 10 月 16 日。视频简介指出，乌克兰总统弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基在访谈中揭示了在举世瞩目的生存之战中领导一个国家的心理代价、地缘政治谈判的严酷现实，以及支撑他坚守阵地的内在力量。 ## TL;DR 在长达近两小时的深度对话中，泽连斯基回顾了从演艺与喜剧生涯走向战时最高领导人的历程，并详细拆解了 2022 年俄军全面入侵基辅的战术溃败与布恰大屠杀带来的不可逆创伤。他坚决回击了唐纳德·特朗普关于“换总统”以及指责乌克兰袭击炼油厂推高全球柴油价格的言论，指出乌方是在民用电网遭轰炸后的正当自卫，并揭露普京曾直接拒绝美方提出的“能源停火”倡议。泽连斯基强调，仅仅接受现有战线停火对经历惨烈牺牲的乌克兰而言就已是巨大的妥协，真正的长久和平绝不能以牺牲司法正义、纵容战犯为代价。此外，他详细分析了当前占领 18% 国土的前线僵局、核风险评估以及普京对克里姆林宫权力的病态执念，呼吁美国保持强硬遏制并珍惜平凡的和平生活。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场访谈充盈着一种极度克制却又暗流涌动的悲壮感，泽连斯基神态疲惫而坚毅，卸下了所有政客的修饰，在讲述布恰惨案时甚至坦言自己平生第一次涌现出想要亲手开枪杀人的纯粹复仇冲动。主持人 Steven Bartlett 以极富同理心且不避尖锐的提问步步深入，从开篇探讨近五年严重缺眠的身体极限，过渡到直面特朗普公开批评的激烈交锋，再沉淀为谈及母亲每日连环来电与儿女迅速长大的温情脆弱。对话在冰冷的战场沙盘推演与滚烫的人性创伤之间来回切换，让观众能够直观感受到一位身处历史暴风眼中心的普通人所承受的无尽孤独与灵魂重压。 ## Bulletin - [01:40:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6056s) 泽连斯基直言普京拒绝“能源停火”，乌方袭击俄炼油厂是对民用电网遭轰炸的对等自卫，将美国柴油价格波动归咎于乌克兰在事实上和经济学上均站不住脚。 - [01:33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5586s) 乌克兰当前约18%至19%的领土处于被占领状态，俄方仍企图逼迫乌军撤出东部坚固防线，但任何没有实质安全保障的撤退都将危及其中部工业腹地。 - [55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3300s) 在开战初期直面64公里装甲车队逼近时，泽连斯基拒绝了拜登等多国领导人的撤离提议，坚持留守基辅并通过公开发声打破了俄方的心理舆论战。 - [01:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4800s) 在布恰等解放城镇发现的严重战争暴行让任何轻易的停火与妥协都变得极具道德争议，泽连斯基强调正义的和平必须建立在对战争罪犯追责的基础之上。 ## Key takeaways - [02:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=127s) 战争对国家领导层施加了极限的心理与生理消耗，支撑泽连斯基坚持履职的核心动力在于对正义必胜的信念及对家庭与下一代的责任。 - [15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=900s) 从演艺讽刺剧《人民公仆》走向实体政治的分水岭是2014年克里米亚与顿巴斯危机，俄罗斯的潜行蚕食促使泽连斯基决意投身政治改变国家命运。 - [22:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1350s) 普京所谓“去纳粹化”借口在历史上极度荒谬，乌克兰在二战中曾遭纳粹全境占领并付出惨烈伤亡，泽连斯基家族亦有大批亲人惨遭屠杀。 - [25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1500s) 普京对乌克兰的执念植根于苏联解体的情结与大帝国野心，试图用封闭的“铁幕”信息真空阻断乌克兰融入欧洲的自由民主道路。 - [40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2400s) 西方战前未能采取先发制人的实质制裁与足额军援是一大战略失误，助长了俄方通过白俄罗斯借道直插基辅的速胜幻想。 - [55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3300s) 在基辅危如累卵且劝降通牒频至的时刻，泽连斯基选择拒绝撤离并多次走向街头自拍视频，稳固了乌克兰军民殊死抵抗的士气与凝聚力。 - [01:05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3900s) 俄军初期闪击基辅失败的根本原因在于严重误判乌克兰民族的反抗意志，其后勤崩溃与低估守城兵力需求导致攻城企图彻底流产。 - [01:12:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4347s) 霍斯托梅尔安东诺夫机场的殊死阻击战破坏了俄军空降装甲部队的大型空桥计划，成为守住基辅并改写战局走向的关键转折点。 - [01:15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4500s) 布恰发现的大规模酷刑与乱坟坑暴行是国际公认的种族灭绝，直接摧毁了盲目妥协的基础，使得停火必须伴随国际司法审判与惩戒。 - [01:36:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5760s) 战时坚守现有战线与停火本身对承受巨大人员创伤的乌克兰已是巨大妥协，强迫乌军进一步退出东部防线将彻底动摇其国防纵深。 - [01:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6000s) 由于全球核大国难以承受打破核禁忌的连锁恶果，泽连斯基研判普京当前不敢动用核武，但其政权交接恐将维系至其自然生命终结。 - [01:40:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6056s) 针对特朗普指责乌军打击炼油厂引发全球能源危机的言论，泽连斯基澄清俄柴油出口微不足道，乌方反击是对俄军摧毁民用电网的必要防御。 - [01:45:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6348s) 结束战争的关键在于美国能否对普京施展同等强硬的施压与既定制裁，乌方呼吁国际盟友在能源与防空支持上秉持公平原则。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=0s) 战争的残酷与抉择访谈在一段令人屏息的预告中拉开帷幕。泽连斯基总统坦言，自2022年2月24日全面战争爆发以来，他几乎无法入睡，承受着常人难以想象的巨大痛苦。当时，卫星图像捕获到了长达64公里的俄罗斯庞大军事车队直逼基辅。面对20万大军的压境，防守似乎是一项不可能的任务。在防空洞中，面对美国总统拜登提出的撤离协助，泽连斯基给出了那句载入史册的回答：“我需要的是弹药，而不是搭便车。”（"I need ammunition, not a ride."）面对俄罗斯的入侵，乌克兰人民展现出了超乎想象的凝聚力。无数志愿者挺身而出，乌克兰军队在极短时间内迅速扩张。然而，随着乌军收复失地，战争的残酷真相也随之暴露。在布恰等被解放的城镇，随处可见被酷刑折磨并杀害的平民尸体。这些惨无人道的暴行，让任何轻易的政治妥协都变得不再可能。 - **军队扩张**：乌克兰军队在战争爆发后迅速扩张，从最初的20万人志愿者激增至80万人。 - **布恰暴行**：在被解放的地区，发现了大量万人坑，死者包括老人、妇女和儿童，许多人双手被反绑，生前遭受了残酷的折磨。 > 面对特朗普提出的“妥协”方案，泽连斯基坚定地指出：“当你在美国或英国发现一个埋有500名受尽折磨之人的万人坑时，你又该如何原谅？这就是为什么当特朗普总统说我们需要寻找妥协时，你不能就这样轻易原谅一切。” --- ### [02:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=127s) 总统的内心世界：在痛苦与希望中挣扎当主持人史蒂文·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）极其真诚地询问泽连斯基“你最近过得怎么样”时，泽连斯基展现出了极大的坦诚与脆弱。他承认日子非常艰难，因为他正与整个国家和人民一起在生死边缘挣扎，每天都在面对“明天是否还会到来”的终极拷问。尽管内心时常感到破碎，但他依然抱着乐观的态度，坚信正义终将战胜邪恶。泽连斯基提到了一张令他心碎的照片，那是一枚导弹击中儿童游乐场的惨烈现场。由于导弹速度极快，防空警报根本来不及起作用，悲剧在短短几秒钟内发生。一对路过的年轻夫妇和正在玩耍的孩子瞬间被夺去了生命。更残忍的是，有些父母甚至隔着窗户亲眼目睹了自己的孩子被炸得粉碎。如今，人们习惯在悲剧发生地为逝去的成人献上鲜花，为孩子送去玩具。 > 泽连斯基动情地说道：“我感到艰难，但心中充满爱。在理解艰难现实的同时保持乐观，因为我仍然相信正义会战胜邪恶。我真的相信这一点。” --- ### [06:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=375s) “我无法入睡”：战争对人性的极限压榨战争对泽连斯基个人的身体和精神造成了极大的摧残。他透露自己几乎无法入睡，在将近五年的战争中，睡满八小时对他来说已经成了奢望。每天夜里，他都要通过现代通讯技术与防空部队的操作员保持实时沟通，根据战况动态调整不同地区的防空力量部署。他强调自己并非在抱怨，而是在尽一个负责任领导人的本分。在所有职责中，最让泽连斯基感到灵魂震颤的，是向牺牲士兵的父母颁发乌克兰最高荣誉——“乌克兰英雄”勋章。他描述了那种自己仿佛在瞬间“不复存在”的空洞与剧痛。许多坚强的父亲在接过勋章时，会紧紧握住他的手，低声请求“我们能抱一下吗”。这些瞬间让他难以承受，也让他看到了战争最深重的悲剧。 > 面对这些失去子女的父母，泽连斯基红了眼眶，他说道：“我是一个普通人。我不为展现真实的自我而感到羞耻。我不是世界上最强壮的人。我试着树立榜样，但我绝对不是一个完美的人。” --- ### [09:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=593s) 支撑他前行的力量：孩子与家庭的羁绊在如此沉重的精神压力下，泽连斯基透露，是他的孩子们支撑着他继续前行。他深知自己必须为孩子们树立一个坚强、勇敢的榜样，但这种坚强并不意味着要伪装冷酷。他认为，人类的脆弱恰恰也是力量的源泉，坦然面对和表达痛苦才是真正的勇敢。他希望自己的孩子能以他为傲，这也成了他在黑暗中坚守的灯塔。 > 泽连斯基解释道：“如果你感到痛苦，你不应该说‘我什么都感觉不到’。因为人类天生就是有血有肉的，这是他们的弱点，但也是一个人的力量所在。” --- ### [11:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=684s) 红色阴影下的童年与独立乌克兰的曙光访谈的话题转向了泽连斯基的成长背景。主持人展示了他童年时期以及他母亲年轻时的珍贵照片。泽连斯基出生于苏联时期的乌克兰，成长于独立的乌克兰，这让他这一代人天然地跨越了两种截然不同的生活。他认为自己的孩子们非常幸运，因为他们出生在一个没有灰色地带、黑白分明的独立国家，是纯粹的爱国者。泽连斯基出生在工业城市克里维里赫（Kryvyi Rih）的一个知识分子家庭。他的父亲是一位受人尊敬的大学教授。在苏联时期，学术家庭并不意味着大富大贵，生活条件相当普通，但他非常感激父母给予他的良好教育、正确引导以及无私的爱。 > 谈到自己的成长环境，泽连斯基回忆道：“我来自跨越了两种不同生活的那一代人。也就是说，我出生在乌克兰还是苏联一部分的时期，而我在独立的乌克兰长大。” --- ### [13:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=798s) 从法学高材生到喜剧明星的华丽转身泽连斯基坦言，自己小时候的梦想经常像风一样摇摆不定。他曾渴望成为一名外交官，也曾梦想当一名边防军人。后来，他考入法学院并顺利毕业，但在求学期间，他逐渐发现自己对媒体和传播更感兴趣。 17岁时，泽连斯基开始接触喜剧，并加入了一个喜剧表演团体。在26岁创立自己的媒体公司之前，他主要担任编剧，偶尔也参与演出。28岁时，多才多艺的他甚至还赢得了乌克兰版《与星共舞》（Dancing with the Stars）的冠军。这段丰富的演艺和商业经历，为他日后走向更大的政治舞台奠定了独特的基础。 ### [15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=900s) 从《帕丁顿熊》配音到《人民公仆》：偶然还是必然？访谈中，主持人提到泽连斯基过去的演艺生涯，不仅参加过舞蹈比赛（泽连斯基笑称“我想当时我确实会跳，不过现在能不能跳就不确定了”），还曾在乌克兰语版院线电影中为深受大家喜爱的经典角色“帕丁顿熊”配音。泽连斯基对此充满感情地表示，自己真的非常喜爱这只小熊，认为帕丁顿熊的形象非常酷、极其纯粹且贴近大众，甚至不仅仅是拍给儿童看的，这种特质深深打动了他。他透露，即使在自己当选总统之后，新的《帕丁顿熊》续集准备上映时，片方还私下向他传递信号，探询他是否还愿意为下一部配音。泽连斯基幽默地坦承：“我当时说，我真的很想配，但我没去配成。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 泽连斯基从文化演艺走向政治现实的轨迹 accDescr: 描绘泽连斯基从演艺、配音，到策划《人民公仆》，再到因2014年克里米亚危机与顿巴斯战事决意弃商从政的发展历程。 subgraph Phase1["文化演艺沉淀 (2014之前)"] A["演艺与配音事业 (含为《帕丁顿熊》乌克兰语配音)"] B["沉淀10-12年的剧作创意: 平民无政治背景逆袭当选总统"] end subgraph Phase2["《人民公仆》与社会共鸣"] C["主演电视剧《人民公仆》 饰演历史教师瓦西里·戈洛博罗德科"] D["乌克兰社会情绪巨变 对腐败政坛强烈不满与求变"] end subgraph Phase3["地缘转折与从政决心"] E["2014年克里米亚与顿巴斯遭占领 感受俄罗斯的深重背叛"] F["斩断俄白哈跨国影视生意 正式注册政党并宣布参选总统"] end A --> B B --> C C --> D D --> E E --> F ``` 在 34 岁到 37 岁之间，泽连斯基出演了多部故事长片，其中最为全球瞩目的是政治讽刺喜剧《人民公仆》（*Servant of the People*）。在剧中，他饰演一名意外被选为乌克兰总统的高中历史老师瓦西里·戈洛博罗德科（Vasily Goloborodko）。针对外界觉得“戏如人生、演员误打误撞真成了总统”极其离奇甚至不可思议的观感，泽连斯基坦言自己当时绝无料到会有今天： > “我绝对没有料到会是这样。这个创意其实在我脑海里构思了大概十到十二年……我与这个想法共同生活了很久。在某一个时刻，我感觉到世界在变，乌克兰也在变，这个题材非常契合当下，会引发强烈的共鸣并受到民众欢迎——一个没有任何政治背景与历史包袱的普通平民，最终当选了国家总统。” 主持人和外界普遍有一种推测：是否因为电视剧大火且政局不稳，团队才精明地将剧名顺势注册为同名实体政党并一举夺权？泽连斯基驳斥了这种“精心算计的剧本论”。他指出，在《人民公仆》之前，他的工作室（Kvartal 95）就长期制作极受欢迎的政治讽刺节目，他早已对乌克兰政治了如指掌。真正促使他走出荧幕、迈向权力中心的分水岭，是 2014 年俄罗斯对克里米亚和顿巴斯地区的占领。战争的阴云与现实彻底颠覆了以往的平静。当时泽连斯基的影视商业版图遍及白俄罗斯、哈萨克斯坦和俄罗斯，不仅在多地设有办事处，还有庞大的合拍项目在运转。然而，俄罗斯的军事侵占让他感受到了彻头彻尾的“背叛”，他内心毅然决定放弃这一切跨国商业利益。社会情绪的求变渴望与他个人的内生决心在此刻发生了同频共振，最终推动他组建“人民公仆党”并投身总统大选。 ### [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1200s) 战争究竟何时爆发？克里米亚的“温水煮青蛙”与历史教训对于这场战争的起始点，国际社会与历史学者各执一词，有人甚至追溯到千年前的基辅罗斯，有人归咎于 2022 年的全境入侵，而泽连斯基坚定地将时间锚定在 2014 年。他强调，如果以 1991 年重新获得独立的现代乌克兰视角来审视，所有灾难的开端正是 2014 年俄罗斯强行吞并克里米亚半岛： > “在 2014 年，我们所有人都无法相信这样的占领真的在发生。战争确确实实始于对克里米亚的占领。只是在那时，那场占领推进得非常缓慢，看起来不太像一场典型的战争，因为乌克兰当时并没有发起反击……那是一种潜行蔓延的匍匐占领。” 泽连斯基分析道，2014 年的局势之所以没有立刻演变成大规模热战，是因为俄罗斯在初期坚决不承认这些入侵者是正规军，而是动用了没有军队标识的“小绿人”（little green men），伪装成普通民兵。更为致命的是，当时的乌克兰最高领导层严重失职，未能下达坚决保卫领土的明确军事命令，眼睁睁看着敌人持械侵犯边境并逐步蚕食国土。泽连斯基痛切地反思道，未能当机立断将俄军击退是乌克兰历史上极其惨痛的错误；如果当时政府果断下达抵抗军令，今天这种烈度与规模的全面战争或许根本就不会发生。 ### [22:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1350s) 家族历史与二战烙印：回击荒谬的“去纳粹化”谎言针对普京政权开战时所谓“乌克兰充斥着纳粹”并宣称要“从法西斯手中解放乌克兰”的借口，泽连斯基表达了极度的愤慨与荒谬感。他提到了自己家族沉重而惨烈的历史创伤：他的祖父（父亲的父亲）作为红军战士完整参加并走过了第二次世界大战的始末，而祖父的四名亲兄弟全部惨死在纳粹手下；无论是父系还是母系家族，绝大多数亲戚都在二战中遭到了法西斯的残酷屠杀。泽连斯基家族几乎被二战的硝烟彻底摧毁，仅留下极少数幸存者。 | 历史与现实对比维度 | 乌克兰的二战历史记忆与现实地位 | 俄罗斯的侵略修辞与宣传谎言 | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **二战沦陷与抵抗程度** | 国土 100% 遭到纳粹德军全面占领，军民进行了彻底而惨烈的抵抗，伤亡惨重 | 宣称自己拥有反法西斯专有权，但在二战中其本土并未被纳粹全境占领 | | **战火代价与牺牲** | 纳粹德国的大量兵力深陷并阵亡于乌克兰与白俄罗斯土地，当地创伤深入骨髓 | 借由当年的反法西斯叙事，对外发动侵略战争并掩盖帝国扩张本质 | | **当下的指控与悖论** | 总统本人为二战红军老兵后代、家族曾惨遭屠杀，法西斯主义在乌毫无根基 | 诬蔑乌克兰政权为“纳粹”，声称发动全面进攻是为了“解放乌克兰” | 泽连斯基指出，任何稍具历史常识的人都会明白这种指控是何等荒谬狂妄。在第二次世界大战期间，乌克兰全境遭到纳粹百分之百的彻底占领，白俄罗斯同样全面沦陷，纳粹德国最惨重的兵力伤亡正是消耗在乌克兰与白俄罗斯军民殊死抵抗的泥潭中；相比之下，俄罗斯本土并未遭到全境沦陷。正因如此，乌克兰民众从血脉和根源深处无比清楚沦为法西斯奴役意味着何种惨剧。泽连斯基义愤填膺地反驳： > “所有乌克兰人都觉得，当普京攻击我们、声称我们是法西斯、声称他要从法西斯手中解放乌克兰时，这简直是野蛮而令人发指的无耻狂言。这太荒唐了。我们才是与法西斯浴血奋战的人，当年解放这片土地的人恰恰是我们。” ### [25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1500s) 帝国的本质与“鱼缸”隐喻：为何帝国注定崩塌主持人史蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）向泽连斯基提了一个假想性的问题：如果我是一个 16 岁的少年，对地缘政治毫无概念，请您用最直白的方式解释，眼下到底发生了什么？俄罗斯为什么进入克里米亚？普京到底是怎么想的，他为什么认为自己有权入侵乌克兰？泽连斯基耐心地给出了他的历史全景分析。他从帝国的演变规律切入，指出曾经存在过一个名为苏联的庞大帝国，它包含了如今许多独立的国家。帝国天然无法依靠自由存续，只能通过暴政、专制、封建制度和奴役将辽阔的土地与庞大的人口维系在一起。“Empires don’t survive on freedom.”（“帝国无法依靠自由生存。”）泽连斯基断言。当被统治的人民开始将自己的生活与其他国家进行对比，看到别人即便在小国也能自由生活、自主选择伴侣、随心所欲改变发色、聆听自己喜欢的音乐、穿着个性的服饰时，自由的渴望便会摧毁帝国。为了阻止这种对比，帝国制造了“铁幕”（Iron Curtain）。泽连斯基用了一个极其生动的比喻：铁幕旨在打造一个信息真空，让人看不见西方、欧洲、美国、英国乃至亚洲的世界。在这样的体制下没有互联网，只有国家掌控与播出的电视节目，“人们就像鱼缸里的鱼一样活着。苏联是一个巨大的鱼缸，朝鲜是一个较小的鱼缸，但本质上都是鱼缸。”当苏联解体时，各个加盟共和国获得了自由，重新找回属于自己的语言、音乐、服饰与文化独特性。而这种多元性与寻求自身身份认同的渴望，正是帝国必然四分五裂的根源。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 帝国控制与解体逻辑 accDescr: 展现帝国通过信息控制维系统治，但在自由意识觉醒后必然解体的过程。 subgraph 帝国维系机制 A["专制与奴役统治"] --> B["信息真空与铁幕遮蔽"] B --> C["“鱼缸”式封闭社会"] end subgraph 觉醒与崩溃 C -.->|"接触外部世界与自由观念"| D["追求个人与民族身份认同"] D --> E["帝国解体与各民族独立"] end ``` ### [27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1650s) 普京的苏联情结与对乌克兰的病态执念泽连斯基指出，苏联虽然解体了，但有些人心中的苏联怀旧情结从未消失，普京就是典型的代表。普京骨子里是一个“纯粹的苏联人”，曾在克格勃（KGB）担任情报军官，长年派驻东德等地。普京曾公开声称，20 世纪最严重的地缘政治灾难就是苏联的解体。在普京的叙事框架里，俄罗斯现有的版图远远无法满足他的野心，他坚信美国必须为苏联的解体负责，美俄之间始终处于冷战式的对立状态。为了重塑帝国，普京必须夺回乌克兰，因为在苏联版图内，乌克兰是仅次于俄罗斯的“二号国家”，更是苏联不可或缺的基石与支柱： - **人才与智力熔炉**：乌克兰被誉为苏联的“人才锻造炉”（forge of talent）。大批顶尖科学家、工程师与学者均出自乌克兰的高校与科研机构，大量乌克兰精英直接掌管着苏联的部委和各类核心国家机关。 - **重工业与军工中心**：苏联规模最大的火箭制造基地就设在乌克兰，乌克兰还曾保管并制造了大量核武器（后在《布达佩斯备忘录》框架下移交）。 - **帝国的生死命门**：乌克兰独立后逐步走向欧洲，这击中了俄罗斯的软肋。泽连斯基分析，如果乌克兰成功融入欧洲成为自由民主国家，包含众多不同民族、宗教的俄罗斯联邦内部就会受到震动并面临解体。因此普京视阻断乌克兰的欧洲道路为维系其大帝国梦想的关键一战。 ### [30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1800s) 从车臣战争到以“保护俄语人口”为借口的入侵在开启宏大帝国拼图之前，普京选择的第一个试验场是车臣。泽连斯基回顾道，普京在车臣发动战争，将这个较小的地区彻底摧毁夷为平地，无数建筑化为废墟，大批民众惨遭杀害。后来在乌克兰东部战场上指挥俄军作战的高级将领，许多正是当年在车臣实行残酷毁灭战术的原班人马。拿下车臣后，普京将扩张的目标对准了向往欧盟、崇尚自由的乌克兰。而每一次对外占领，侵略者都需要寻找借口。“The pretext is always language.”（“借口永远是语言。”）泽连斯基愤怒地指出，普京选择从克里米亚半岛和顿巴斯东部地区下手，打着“保护俄语人口”的旗号挑起冲突。这种手段极其卑劣： - **操弄语言矛盾撕裂社会**：语言问题向来敏感，普京蓄意将讲俄语的乌克兰人描绘成受害者，宣称他们的权益受到侵害，但这完全是凭空捏造的谎言。 - **抹杀克里米亚的原住民历史**：克里米亚是一个多民族聚居的半岛，历史上曾发生过数次针对克里米亚鞑靼人等原住民族的大规模残酷驱逐与流放。普京选择克里米亚，仅仅是因为当地有大量俄语人口，且乌克兰东部紧邻俄罗斯边界，便于军事渗透与占领。 ### [32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1920s) 驳斥“列宁创造乌克兰”论：基辅罗斯的千年纪元主持人提到，就在下令全面入侵乌克兰的前几天，普京发表了长篇电视讲话，宣称现代乌克兰完全是由俄罗斯——准确地说是布尔什维克共产主义时期的列宁一手创造的，因此现代乌克兰可以被称为“弗拉基米尔·列宁的乌克兰”，以此否定乌克兰拥有真正的国家传统。主持人追问，既然普京早在 2014 年就占领了克里米亚，为什么会选在 2022 年 2 月 24 日全面越境进攻、企图吞并整个乌克兰？泽连斯基对普京的荒谬历史观进行了正面驳斥： - **跨越千年的国家根基**：任何一个拥有基本历史常识的人都会觉得所谓“乌克兰始于 1917 年革命”的说法荒诞不经。乌克兰大地上伫立着拥有上千年历史的古老教堂，那些精美绝伦的壁画皆由千年前的乌克兰大师亲手绘制。 - **基辅罗斯的正统继承者**：乌克兰是基辅罗斯（Kievan Rus）的合法继承者。基辅罗斯当年曾是欧洲大陆上文明高度发达、拥有独特艺术与法治传统的著名强盛国家。 - **历史先后顺序的扭曲**：泽连斯基强调，在乌克兰的文明与国家形态早已繁荣昌盛之时，所谓的现代俄罗斯甚至连雏形都尚未形成，“Russia wasn't even close to existing. Russia came after Ukraine already existing.”（“俄罗斯当时连存在的影子都没有。俄罗斯是在乌克兰早已存在之后才出现的。”）普京试图抹去乌克兰作为独立文明与主权实体的历史事实，纯粹是为其帝国扩张野心炮制的拙劣借口。 ### [35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2100s) 普京的历史叙事与全面入侵的爆发泽连斯基指出，普京在谈论历史时刻意抹去大量事实，直接从1917年的十月革命切入，原因在于他想讲述的根本不是俄罗斯或乌克兰的真实历史，而是苏联的历史。在俄罗斯国内，学校的孩子们接收到这种历史教育后便全盘接受，根本不会深入探究背后的真相；普京正是借此向俄罗斯民众发出明确信号：他们的生活就是苏联，而俄罗斯现在正全面倒退回那个时代。2022年2月24日，普京正式发动了全面战争。导弹在清晨从各个方向密集袭来，俄军部队同时自白俄罗斯领土长驱直入。选择白俄罗斯不仅因为那是直插乌克兰首都基辅的最短路线，更因为俄军的第一要务就是闪击并攻占基辅。除了多路穿插的俄军正规部队，莫斯科方面还寄望于在顿巴斯被占领土上盘踞已久的俄罗斯武装人员及分裂势力协同配合。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 2022年俄军全面进攻基辅态势图 accDescr: 展示俄军从白俄罗斯等多方向直扑基辅，同时乌军主力受制于东部顿巴斯的进攻态势 subgraph North ["北部战线：最短闪击路线"] A["白俄罗斯领土集结"] -->|"装甲长蛇阵推进"| B["直扑首都基辅 (目标斩首与占领)"] end subgraph East ["东部战线：牵制与策应"] C["顿巴斯被占领区俄军与分裂武装"] -->|"牵制乌军主力部队"| D["顿涅茨克与卢甘斯克防御线"] end subgraph SouthAir ["全境立体打击"] E["全境多空军基地与边境"] -->|"2月24日清晨密集导弹覆盖"| F["全境陷入混乱与恐慌"] end ``` ### [36:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2194s) 2022年2月的时间节点与拜登的应对主持人询问，为何普京偏偏选择在2022年2月动手，以及唐纳德·特朗普指责乔·拜登表现软弱才让普京有机可乘的说法是否属实。泽连斯基回顾道，局势的恶化更早可以追溯到2021年那场著名的美俄日内瓦峰会。会后外界并不清楚会谈的所有细节，但随后有关俄乌局势可能发生大规模军事升级的传闻开始四处蔓延。乌克兰在接下来的几个月内反复向美方求证并提出警示：既然这种风险切实存在，乌克兰就必须获得自卫所需的重型武器。然而，当时乌方虽然预料到可能会有某种形式的冲突或占领，但未曾料到会演变成一场铺天盖地的全面战争。泽连斯基坦言，乌克兰见识过克里米亚以及顿涅茨克、卢甘斯克部分地区被蚕食的样貌，却很难想象导弹会无差别地倾泻在全境城市上空，引发全国性的大混乱。在战争爆发的最初几天，拜登曾致电泽连斯基并提出协助他撤离，但泽连斯基回绝了这一提议并要求提供军援：“我当时对他说，给我们武器，帮我们保卫国家。” 泽连斯基感慨，当时以美国为首的西方情报部门普遍评估乌克兰无法坚持太久，而欧洲领导人在开战前一天与普京通电话时，普京还在当面撒谎否认有任何入侵打算。 - 2021年美俄峰会后，关于俄罗斯可能大规模军事升级的情报迅速发酵。 - 乌方反复要求提供充足的防御装备，但欧美多方最初深信乌克兰防线会在几天内崩溃，甚至准备了领导层撤离方案。 - 欧洲领导人在开战前夕仍试图通过外交接触斡旋，换来的却是普京彻底的欺骗。 ### [40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2400s) 徒劳的预警与“事后制裁”的战略失误谈及战前情报与预警，主持人罗列了美方情报体系在2021年秋季至2022年初发出的一系列具体警告，包括中情局局长飞赴莫斯科、公开卫星图像与兵力评估等。泽连斯基澄清，美方在私下沟通中从未给出过“某年某月某日将发起全面入侵”这样明确直接的通报，大多是极其谨慎的外交措辞。更严重的问题在于，这种长期笼罩在战争阴影下的拉锯直接重创了乌克兰经济，造成资本外逃和货币汇率剧烈震荡。乌克兰当时向西方盟友提出了极为明确的两项诉求：如果认定战争不可避免，就必须立刻提供足以抵御进攻的实质性军援，并对俄罗斯实施“先发制人”（preemptive）的经济制裁，以此打消普京的侵略念头。然而拜登坚持只有在入侵事实发生后才启动制裁。谈及这一决定，泽连斯基评价道：“我不是上帝，无权审判一位总统，但依我看，那是一个错误。”（“I'm not God to judge a president, but I believe that was a mistake in my view.”）与此同时，俄罗斯在白俄罗斯境内举行的联合军演为大军压境提供了绝佳掩护。由于这类演习每年都常规举行，乌克兰国防部长甚至受邀前往观摩，这让西方及乌克兰内部许多人倾向于认为普京只是在“炫耀武力”，企图通过军事讹诈逼迫乌克兰在《明斯克协议》上彻底屈服，割让顿巴斯并承认克里米亚属于俄罗斯。泽连斯基承认，自己当时也不相信普京真的会孤注一掷发动全面入侵，因为如果西方明知战争迫在眉睫，却不对普京采取严厉的先发制人施压并当头棒喝，逻辑上根本说不通。 ### [41:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2506s) 2月24日清晨：改变一切的第一通电话当俄罗斯军队越过多道边境线全线突入时，泽连斯基正与家人在一起。凌晨时分，来自总统办公室的紧急电话骤然响起，通报全境多处遭到导弹袭击。一切发生得快如雪崩，几乎没有留给任何人喘息和消化的时间。他迅速收拾整顿，来到妻子和孩子面前。泽连斯基回忆起那个与家人诀别的瞬间，他当时对妻子说：“快醒醒，战争开始了。我爱你，我会给你打电话的。”（“I told my wife, wake up quickly, the war has started. I love you, I'll call you, and... ran out.”）随后他飞速奔向总统办公室，成为当时整栋大楼里最早到达的一两个人之一。他立即召集所有核心幕僚和内阁成员就位，拉开了那场漫长而残酷的战时工作序幕。泽连斯基直言，从那一刻起，所有人的生活轨迹都被彻底斩断，“那完全是另一种人生了，一切都变了。” ### [46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2808s) 特朗普掌权是否能阻止这场战争？针对美国国内频繁争论的“如果特朗普在任战争绝不会爆发”这一论调，泽连斯基给出了极其客观而克制的剖析。他表示，事实摆在眼前：全面入侵确实发生在拜登任内，而在特朗普执政期间确实没有发生。同时，普京与特朗普之间过去和现在都维持着某种特殊关系，特朗普凭借这种私交或许确实有可能暂时阻止或推迟全面入侵的脚步。然而，泽连斯基强调这并不能从根本上解决问题：“无论是我还是特朗普，我们都不可能永远坐在总统的位子上。不管是哪种情况，特朗普的总统任期终究会结束，而普京依然不会改变他的根本目标——那就是吞并乌克兰。”（“Neither I nor Trump, we're not eternal in these presidential seats. And so either way, Trump's presidency would have ended and Putin still wouldn't have been able to change his main goal: the occupation of Ukraine.”）在他看来，归根结底，只要普京依然掌权且其帝国野心未减，谁担任美国总统都无法从长远上消除乌克兰面临的生存威胁。 ### [48:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2933s) 俄军兵力部署与东线防务陷阱主持人提到，各方情报估计俄罗斯在战前集结了15万至20万的庞大兵力，这一数字几乎与乌克兰当时全部现役正规军的总兵力相当，相当于俄方投入了与乌军等体量的作战力量进行全方位突袭。泽连斯基解释了当时极为严峻的战术困境：俄罗斯之所以能长驱直入逼近基辅，很大程度上是因为他们清楚乌克兰最精锐、最庞大的主力作战部队全部被牵制在顿巴斯东线战场。 - 自2014年顿巴斯战争爆发以来，乌克兰最核心的防御工事与精锐常备力量长期驻扎在顿涅茨克和卢甘斯克前线，防止防线崩溃。 - 莫斯科正是利用了乌军主力深陷东部泥潭的战局分布，选择从北方的白俄罗斯开辟全新战线直插防御空虚的基辅，企图以此实现快速斩首与瘫痪国家指挥体系的目的。 ### [50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3000s) 意料之外的白俄罗斯突袭与基辅保卫战在谈到全面入侵初期的兵力部署时，泽连斯基指着地图解释乌克兰当年的战略困局。此前，由于顿涅茨克和马里乌波尔等东部地区已被占领，亲俄分离主义武装与俄军在此驻扎了极其庞大的兵团。这些分离主义分子将顿涅茨克视为家园，与正规俄军混编，构成了敌方最具战斗力的主力。乌克兰最精锐的部队也常年部署在该防线正面，日复一日地死死抵御其突破。正因如此，乌克兰完全没有预料到俄军竟会借道白俄罗斯直接挥师南下，直扑首都基辅。在北方战线上，乌克兰几乎没有任何成建制的精锐驻军；战前乌克兰正规军规模甚至不到20万人（后来才立法扩充至20万到25万），面对全面涌入的20万大军，防线在最初阶段根本难以维系。随着俄军占领切尔诺贝利核电站并切断干道，基辅迅速陷入被包围、断水断粮的险境。然而战局很快迎来了不可思议的逆转。当全世界震惊地注视着卫星影像中长达64公里（40英里）的庞大俄军装甲车队堵死在直通基辅的公路上时，俄军的后勤崩溃与乌克兰的全面动员同时发生了。虽然第一天有大量平民避难前往西乌克兰或出国，但更多的人选择留下来排队志愿入伍。乌克兰军队在极短时间内从20万人暴增至80万人，而俄军在全线战场投入的总兵力约为70万人。泽连斯基强调，俄军攻打基辅的根本败因在于兵力不足以维持并控制如此庞大的占领区，在乌军持续反击下只能被迫撤退，乌克兰随后彻底收复了基辅州和切尔尼戈夫州全境。在基辅最危险的时刻，乌克兰内部甚至有人试图劝降。有人走进泽连斯基的办公室，神情凝重地通报基辅已被切断且彻底包围，并传达俄方的通牒：“Kiev is cut off. And Kiev is surrounded and the Russians are suggesting you hand over your powers and that's it, meaning Kiev must surrender.” 泽连斯基对此毫不妥协，直接用最严厉的语气把那些劝他放弃政权、交出国家的人逐出了办公室。 - **战前与动员兵力对比**：乌克兰正规军在战前仅有20万至25万人；战事爆发后全民动员，军队迅速激增至80万人；俄军在乌全境各战线投入的总兵力约为70万人。 - **北线致命空缺**：精锐部队全部被牵制在东部顿涅茨克前线对抗俄军主力与分离主义武装，白俄罗斯方向几乎无重兵把守。 - **40英里车队受挫**：俄军虽一度攻占切尔诺贝利并切断基辅补给，但因兵力分散和顽强抵抗无法啃下首都，最终全线从基辅和切尔尼戈夫溃退。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 乌克兰战初兵力分布与基辅保卫战逆转 accDescr: 展示乌克兰东部主力被牵制、俄军借道白俄罗斯闪击基辅，以及乌军动员反击的过程。 subgraph EastFront ["东部前线（长期对峙）"] E1["顿涅茨克及分离主义武装主力"] <--> E2["乌克兰战前精锐主力（长期驻防）"] end subgraph NorthInvasion ["北方突袭与围困"] N1["俄军借道白俄罗斯南下"] --> N2["占领切尔诺贝利"] N2 --> N3["64公里车队逼近基辅"] N3 --> N4["切断水电，围困首都并劝降"] end subgraph DefenseCounter ["全民动员与全线收复"] D1["泽连斯基拒绝交权并坚守"] --> D2["民众排队志愿入伍（扩充至80万人）"] D2 --> D3["阻截俄军补给线与后勤打击"] D3 --> D4["收复基辅州与切尔尼戈夫州全境"] end NorthInvasion -.->|"利用北方防线空虚"| EastFront N4 --> D1 ``` --- ### [55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3300s) 地下掩体中的抉择：“我需要弹药，而不是搭便车” 随着基辅枪声四起，各国领导人纷纷打来电话，要求在所有通道彻底封死之前帮助泽连斯基撤离。美国总统乔·拜登是第一个打来电话提议协助撤离的，表示美方已准备好营救泽连斯基及其全家；随后多位欧洲领导人以及泽连斯基本地政治圈子内部的一些人也提出了同样的建议。然而泽连斯基给出了举世闻名的回答：“I need ammunition. Not a ride?” 在大楼周围已有交火、狙击手四处潜伏的极度危险情势下，安保团队护送他的家人撤离到隐秘安全地点，而泽连斯基本人则被要求下到办公室地下深处构筑的掩体中。在冰冷阴暗的地下掩体中，泽连斯基架起通信设备，开始了不分昼夜的高强度外交战。他与拜登在此通话，也是在这里第一次与欧洲各国领导人进行视频连线，声泪俱下地恳请欧洲团结起来援助乌克兰、不要抛弃乌克兰。但更关键的战场在信息层面：俄罗斯当时正开动庞大的虚假宣传机器，散布泽连斯基已经弃国潜逃、出现在边境甚至逃往国外的谣言。泽连斯基意识到，如果国家领导人弃城逃跑，整个国家的防线和民心瞬间就会崩溃成一盘散沙，所有人只能被迫自谋生路。为了击碎敌人的心理战，泽连斯基坚持每天两到三次走出掩体，直接来到基辅街头自拍视频，向全国人民和全世界展示自己依然留在原地。泽连斯基坦言，留在首都根本不是什么深思熟虑的英勇壮举，而是自己作为总统和个人的唯一底线，正如他断言：“I couldn't abandon Keeve. The office, the people. It's just impossible. That would be betrayal.” 后来前线作战的将士们告诉他，正是看到总统寸步未离地留在基辅，军队才坚信自己保卫的不只是一座孤城，而是自己的首都、家园以及从未抛弃他们的总统，这种信念成了守住基辅的精神支柱。 - **多方撤离提议**：美国总统拜登首个提出协助撤离泽连斯基及其家人，随后多位欧洲政要和乌克兰内部政客也密集提出撤离方案。 - **信息战反击**：俄方反复宣称泽连斯基已逃往境外，逼迫他每天多次冒险走上基辅街头录制视频自证在场，稳定军心与民心。 - **坚守的底线**：泽连斯基认为擅离职守等于背叛《乌克兰宪法》与做人最基本的尊严，留下是履行职责的本能选择。 --- ### [01:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3600s) 战时危机管控：从应激冲刺到悲剧的真正沉淀当被问及面对拥有核武的世界级军事强权、64公里的钢铁洪流以及扑面而来的空袭和导弹时内心是否害怕，泽连斯基沉思后否认了单纯的“恐惧”。他表示那一刻大脑进入了一种极致的激光聚焦状态（laser focused），根本没有留给恐惧的时间。当时他在办公室里来回奔跑，每分每秒都在做生死攸关的决断：刚刚走出掩体录完视频，又跑回来与军方研判战况；每个小时都要打几十通国际长途，甚至在半夜直接叫醒别国首脑——例如在深夜紧急致电波兰总统安杰伊·杜达，协调波兰境内仓库的武器后勤走廊。他笑称虽然在平时半夜叫醒外国元首极其失礼，但在生死存亡的关头，一切繁文缛节都被抛到了脑后。在入侵最初的那些日子里，泽连斯基几乎完全不睡觉，每次只能眯大约15分钟，整个人如同高强度运转的危机管控机器。当时周围的许多人因惊恐而陷入瘫痪与崩溃，他敏锐地察觉到了这种情绪，反而促使他彻底稳住阵脚，逐一拆解危机：基辅被围困，就命令军队砸开通路；物资断供，就协调水与粮食的补给线；不仅如此，乌克兰作为一个高度数字化的国家，还必须在战火中力保全国银行借记卡系统不瘫痪、通信网络不中断。在这场速度的较量中，乌克兰在第一时间的危机应对和信息传播上彻底超越了俄军，打破了俄方的舆论闪电战。这种疯狂的肾上腺素冲刺一直持续到了开战后的第20天左右。泽连斯基回忆说，直到战局的急迫节奏稍微放缓，基辅的围困被逐步打破，大家从极度紧绷的机械状态中稍微回过神来时，战争残酷的冰冷全貌才真正击中了他。正如他所描述的那种心理滞后：“Well, because it's a terrible war, I pull myself together completely. And only later... relate once you've relaxed you realized that a terrible tragedy occurred.” 直到那一刻，他才真正开始面对生命逝去的巨大空洞与国家深陷浩劫的无尽悲痛。 - **高强度运转作息**：开战初期泽连斯基近乎全天候工作，每次仅断断续续睡眠约15分钟，靠极度专注维系危机应对。 - **午夜外交与物流通道**：为了建立无缝的武器补给线，他多次在深夜直接致电波兰总统杜达等领导人，紧急调度边境仓库与物流。 - **全方位基础设施维稳**：除正面军事指挥外，初期重点还包括保障通信基础设施、供水、食品供应以及维持全国数字化银行支付系统的正常运作。 - **心理感知拐点**：前20天完全依靠危机应对本能支撑，直到战局稍显平稳、俄军攻势受阻后，战争造成的生命损失与巨大悲剧才在心理上全面爆发。 ### [01:05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3900s) 普京的致命误判与装满阅兵礼服的装甲车泽连斯基指出，国际社会真正开始提供实质援助的关键，在于乌克兰人证明了自己绝不屈服。外界常提及弗拉基米尔·普京曾深信自己能在短短数日内攻陷基辅并拿下乌克兰。被俘的俄军突击部队甚至仅随身携带了 3 到 10 天的作战口粮，车辆里甚至装满了准备在基辅举行胜利阅兵的礼服制服；俄官方媒体更是在开战第三天误发了预先排期的“胜利宣言”。尽管普京本人未公开讲出“三天拿下”，但俄官方媒体的核心人物此前屡次公开吹嘘数日即可完成征服。泽连斯基直指普京最大的误判核心：“That's right, exactly what you started with today, that Ukraine is not Russia. That's his problem, refusing to recognize a separate nation, refusing to recognize a separate country.” 普京至今仍将乌克兰视为俄罗斯的附庸，以为只要派遣数十万大军压境、自己重重拍桌恐吓，乌克兰总统就会闻风潜逃、民众便会蜷缩躲藏，乌克兰国旗随之被换上俄罗斯国旗。乌克兰军方击毁俄军坦克与装备时，在车内搜出大量崭新的阅兵服，足见俄军当时确信自己是在奔赴一场阅兵式，企图在三天内夺下基辅并在基辅独立广场（Maidan Nezalezhnosti）上演一场虚伪的胜利庆典。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 普京的入侵误判与现实破灭流程 accDescr: 展示普京预设的三天速胜设想与乌克兰军民顽强抵抗导致计划崩溃的对比过程 subgraph 普京的原始设想["普京的原始设想（三天速胜论）"] A["不承认乌克兰是独立国家"] --> B["装甲部队快速突入基辅"] B --> C["总统逃亡、民众屈服"] C --> D["在基辅独立广场身着礼服阅兵"] end subgraph 现实战局破灭["前线现实遭遇"] E["乌克兰军民激烈抵抗"] --> F["突入基辅的装甲车遭平民焚毁"] F --> G["后方城镇未屈服，兵力严重不足"] G --> H["夺取基辅计划彻底流产"] end 普京的原始设想 -.->|"遭遇全面阻击"| 现实战局破灭 ``` --- ### [01:07:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4050s) 反驳特朗普言论：夺取基辅不是转错弯的问题，而是兵力与抵抗针对唐纳德·特朗普不久前公开声称“俄军原本可以一天拿下基辅，只是因为愚蠢的将军在暴雨泥泞中转错了弯、开进农田陷进流沙般泥潭”的说法，泽连斯基予以了坚决反驳。泽连斯基强调，特朗普完全没有弄清前线的实际战况。俄军当时已合围并直抵基辅外围，占领了沿途的诸多城镇，并在霍斯托梅尔等地损失了数十乃至上百辆装甲战车，俄军的一些装甲先头部队甚至已经冲入了基辅市内街道。但结果是，乌克兰军民直接用燃烧物与各种武器在街头将这些装甲车彻底焚毁，令俄军彻底陷入震惊。泽连斯基解释道，这绝非某个将军转错弯的愚蠢失误，而是下达入侵命令的决策层根本不明白吞下一个拥有反抗意志的国家的真实代价：“They needed around thousands, thousands, I think three to four hundred thousand to take Kiev. They needed twice as many men.” 沿途每占领一座城镇，只要当地平民不顺从、敢于反抗，占领军就必须留下大量兵力进行维稳。俄军完全没有预料到会有全民族的顽强抵抗，这才是他们遭遇毁灭性挫败的根源。 - 特朗普言论的核心观点：认为俄军若是沿着水泥高速公路直行而非拐入泥地，战争在一天之内就能结束。 - 泽连斯基指出的兵力缺口：俄军当时若想彻底攻占并守住基辅，至少需要 30 到 40 万兵力，相当于他们当时投入兵力的两倍以上。 - 占领的实际代价：没有顺从的民众，每座沿途城镇都会成为需要重兵驻守的泥潭。 --- ### [01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4200s) 2014年克里米亚的教训：无抵抗助长了全面入侵的野心泽连斯基回顾了 2014 年克里米亚被吞并的历史，指出在这点上他认同特朗普的一个逻辑——如果当年在克里米亚没有任由俄罗斯得手，后来很可能就不会有全面战争。克里米亚有约 300 万人口，基辅同样有 300 万人口。当年进入克里米亚的俄军“小绿人”只有区区几十人、至多几百人，而 2022 年乌克兰面对的则是数十万大军。泽连斯基感慨道：“And if they'd been smacked in the head back then, the Russians... Well, it wouldn't have happened. Well, at least there wouldn't have been a chance of a full-scale war.” 当年那些没有佩戴正式徽章的俄军潜入时，莫斯科官方甚至公开狡辩称那不是俄罗斯军队；如果乌克兰与国际社会在当时就迎头痛击入侵者，普京就会明白侵略必遭回击。正是因为 2014 年夺取克里米亚的过程太过轻易，才直接导致了普京产生能够同样轻而易举拿下基辅的虚妄经验与狂妄自大。 --- ### [01:12:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4347s) 霍斯托梅尔安东诺夫机场血战：守住基辅的生死转折点谈到保卫基辅的关键战役，泽连斯基与主持人聚焦于霍斯托梅尔（Hostomel）安东诺夫机场的争夺战。俄军夺取基辅的标准特种作战预案是：空降兵突袭夺取机场建立空桥、控制电视塔与信息渠道、切断首都的水电和物资供应，随后引导运送重型装甲与大部队的重型运输机大规模降落，迅速合围基辅。战役爆发时，俄军精锐空降兵搭乘直升机强行空降，并在最初阶段一度控制了安东诺夫机场。乌克兰国民警卫队与特种部队随即发起了果断而惨烈的绝地反击。乌军防空部队击落了多架俄军直升机，并毅然用炮火摧毁了己方机场的跑道，阻断了俄军大型运输机的后续降落通道。机场在双方手中数次易手，乌军最终成功清剿并重创了这批俄军精锐，收复了霍斯托梅尔。泽连斯基动情地评价道：“They could, likely, they could have, they could have taken most of the capital. They could have broken through and captured it. That's true. That was an utterly heroic battle.” 倘若机场当时彻底失守，基辅市区极大概率会被俄军装甲洪流直接冲垮，正是前线将士在一系列生死关头的壮烈牺牲，彻底改写了乌克兰的国家命运。 ### [01:15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4500s) 布恰的惨剧与对俄军暴行的震惊乌克兰军队与国民警卫队在霍斯托梅尔（Hostomel）、莫斯秋恩（Moshchun）以及基辅周边的一系列小镇中展开了殊死搏斗。由于正规正规军主力当时难以迅速回撤到位，最初正是驻扎在当地的内政部国民警卫队部队死守阵线，随后再配合赶来的正规军部队打出了极其英勇的阻击战。然而，当乌克兰军队收复布恰（Bucha）等被占领城镇时，眼前展现的是完全超乎战争常理的人间炼狱。泽连斯基强调，布恰发生的一切是被国际社会公认的种族灭绝，俄军实施了极其系统化的酷刑折磨与集体屠杀。在布恰的一处乱坟坑中，乌方发掘出了大约500具遗体。死难者生前双手被紧紧反绑，遭受过残忍的拷打后被推入土坑掩埋。泽连斯基回忆，俄军在这些通往基辅的沿线城镇中所表现出的行径根本不是一支正规军队在打仗，而纯粹是一帮丧失人性的掠夺者与野兽（scavengers）。他们闯入平民家中，杀害当地居民，掠夺微波炉、冰箱、电视机等家电，肆意施加性暴力。在村庄里，俄军士兵甚至拿活人当奴隶一样肆意玩弄，驾驶军用车辆对平民甚至动物进行打靶消遣。泽连斯基指出，正是亲眼目睹了这些被屠杀的平民与儿童，乌克兰人内心才彻底爆发了对俄军刻骨铭心的仇恨——全面开战之初大家尚且未曾预料到战争会以这种形式展开，直到乱坟坑被揭开的这一刻，世界与乌克兰才真正看清普京的本质。为了击碎俄罗斯方面所谓“布恰是摆拍演戏”的无耻谎言，泽连斯基在收复布恰后第一时间赶赴现场，并下令媒体全面介入。 > “Don't touch anything, just bring the journalists. The whole world simply has to see this.” > ——泽连斯基在布恰现场下达的指令一位经历过第二次世界大战并幸存下来的布恰当地老人曾对泽连斯基说，当年纳粹法西斯占领这里时固然是凶残的敌人，但也绝未对平民施加过如此灭绝人性的酷刑。 - 霍斯托梅尔、莫斯秋恩等基辅周边重镇的防守由乌克兰国民警卫队与正规军紧密配合完成 - 布恰单处乱坟坑内即发现约500具遭反绑、酷刑后被掩埋的尸体，其中包括大量成年人与儿童 - 俄军沿路洗劫微波炉、冰箱和电视机，将平民视同奴隶肆意折磨，并猎杀当地牲畜和宠物 - 乌克兰政府主动邀请全球媒体进入未遭清理的原始现场，向国际社会揭露战争罪行确凿证据 --- ### [01:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4800s) “停火是巨大的妥协”：一生中最艰难的一天与复仇欲望谈及外界（包括特朗普等政治人物）反复呼吁的“妥协与谈判”，泽连斯基表达了极度沉重而坚决的态度。他指出，对于无数痛失子女、亲历酷刑的乌克兰家庭而言，任何强迫他们原谅施暴者的要求都是不道德且不可能做到的。人们心中深植的仇恨不会平白消失，唯有时间和公义能够回应这种创伤。泽连斯基曾多次向美国总统及西方政要强调，仅仅是同意停火、坚守在现有的战线上并坐到谈判桌前，对乌克兰而言就已经是一个极其巨大、饱含血泪的妥协。当被问及执政这几年来最艰难、永远铭刻在脑海中的一天时，泽连斯基坦言，那正是他亲眼目睹布恰街头散落平民尸体的那一天。在此之前，他一生从未见过如此惨烈的地狱场景，那一刻彻底颠覆了他对人性和世界的认知。泽连斯基承认，自己以往始终认为凡是人都会犯错，从没有无法原谅的事物，也从未想过要剥夺任何人的生命；但在布恰，当看到同胞像牲口一样被肆意屠宰（chopped meat）时，他平生第一次从心底涌起不可遏制的纯粹复仇冲动——他渴望亲手找到那些丧失人性的凶手并将他们击毙。作为国家元首，他又不得不强行压抑这种复仇的本能，强迫自己冷静下来，维持必要的外交理性。他痛心地反驳那些主张“迅速翻篇、重归于好”的国际政客：绝不能因为俄罗斯是一个大国、因为大家还要购买天然气或柴油，就轻率地选择遗忘与宽恕。 > “I had never wanted to kill a single human being. I had never felt anything like that... pure revenge.” > ——泽连斯基谈及在布恰目睹惨剧后的心理转变 --- ### [01:23:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5023s) 正义和平的底线与战火下的灵魂蜕变战争不可逆转地重塑了泽连斯基的整个人格与价值观。他表示，现在的自己与战前相比完全处于“两个截然不同的世界”。他当下唯一的梦想就是终结这场战争，但他所追求的必须是一场“正义的和平”（just peace）。乌克兰有无数民众被生生撕裂了心灵，如果无法通过公正的审判让罪犯受到严惩、给受害者提供起码的道德慰藉，那道淌血的伤口就永远无法愈合。泽连斯基警告，如果缺少正义的惩戒，被剥夺一切的民众心中滋生的复仇之火迟早会引发新的武装冲突与安全风险，和平绝不可能轻易达成。 > “The guilty must be punished. At the very least, you have to show a path that it will happen.” > ——泽连斯基谈及为何停火必须伴随司法正义 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 乌克兰寻求正义和平的逻辑链路 accDescr: 图表展示了从暴行创伤到最终实现持久和平所必需的司法正义路径，强调缺乏审判将导致复仇循环。 subgraph Trauma["战争创伤与社会心理"] A["布恰等地的暴行与酷刑"] --> B["民众心灵遭遇无法弥补的撕裂"] B --> C["不可遏制的复仇情绪"] end subgraph Resolution["解决路径的分歧"] C -->|"若强行妥协、遗忘罪行"| D["仇恨长期淤积，引发未来冲突与军事风险"] C -->|"坚持正义和平 (Just Peace)"| E["战争罪行调查与国际审判"] end subgraph Outcome["长远结果"] E --> F["罪犯受罚，提供受害者道德抚慰"] F --> G["真正实现长久与可持续的和平"] end ``` --- ### [01:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5100s) 战火中的孤独、家庭羁绊与早熟的一代在谈及家庭与个人生活时，泽连斯基流露出罕见的脆弱与温情。如果去问他的妻子奥莱娜·泽连斯卡娅（Olena Zelenska），妻子肯定也会直言他整个人改变了极多。在战争年代，即便领导着整个国家、身边下属环绕，身为战时总统内心依然承受着深重的孤独感；与战前拥有丰富社交圈、商业伙伴和政治圈子的生活相比，现在的日常唯有高强度的国家运转与军事决策。在极度的孤独与压力中，家庭的温暖成为了唯一的支柱。泽连斯基感叹，由于常年沉浸在高负荷的工作惯性中，即便家人偶尔在身旁，他依然会难以自抑地想念他们。但他坚决表示自己绝不是在自怨自艾，因为这是他自己选择的人生道路，只是残酷的历史与战争恰好砸在了他这一代人的头上。谈到孩子们，泽连斯基欣慰又心酸地提到，他的女儿在这四年间已经长成了一位亭亭玉立的大姑娘（young lady），英语水平甚至比自己还要好，两人更像是无话不谈的挚友。然而，他也为整个国家的下一代感到由衷的心碎——乌克兰所有孩子的童年都被迫在防空警报与硝烟中飞速耗尽，以残酷的方式提前长大成人。尽管如此，泽连斯基依旧坚信和平终将降临，平日只要挤出哪怕几分钟的时间，他都会通过电话或网络视频与孩子们保持联系，努力在国家存亡的巨大重压下维系身为父亲的那份真实守望。 ### [01:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5400s) 战争带来的价值观重塑与家庭的情感支柱在经历战争与死亡的残酷洗礼后，泽连斯基对人生的优先事项有了截然不同的体会。主持人提到，泽连斯基从18岁起就投身商界与演艺事业，在那种全情投入的状态下，工作往往吞噬了全部生活，其他人际关系难免沦为次要。泽连斯基坦言自己过去确实如此，但亲眼目睹战争带来的惨绝人寰的废墟与杀戮后，他的价值观被彻底颠覆：“这一刻让我深切明白，事业是次要的，一切都是次要的，唯有眼前的人才是最重要的。”那些逝去的岁月无法挽回，唯有在极端残酷的考验中，人才会顿悟真正无可替代的是什么。谈及妻子奥莱娜·泽连斯卡娅（Olena Zelenska），泽连斯基将其视为自己度过惊涛骇浪的磐石。他动容地表示，两人的关系建立在深厚的爱意、尊重以及互为支柱的基础之上：“最重要的事情是，两个人必须依然觉得彼此很有趣，而我们至今依然觉得对方非常有趣，我们在一起感觉很好。” 泽连斯基还分享了母亲每天坚持给他打电话的家庭日常。母亲住在乌克兰，每天不断拨打他的电话，常常一打就是十几次。泽连斯基笑着回忆道： - 经常一开手机就看到多达12通未接来电，回拨过去抱怨“妈妈，我在工作呢，你怎么能连打这么多次”，母亲接通后的第一反应总是惊讶地反问：“天哪，你竟然真的接电话了？！” - 只要泽连斯基不接，母亲就会一直拨打，所以现在他雷打不动每天至少和母亲通一次话。 - 母亲在电话里反复关切的三件事：“你感觉怎么样？”“孩子们怎么样？”以及“普京到底什么时候才会结束这场战争？”泽连斯基只能安慰她：“妈妈，我们正在尽一切努力。” --- ### [01:33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5586s) 乌克兰战场态势手绘图：被占领的18%与前线僵局泽连斯基在纸上画图向主持人详细拆解乌克兰当前的实际战局。俄罗斯不仅占领了克里米亚半岛，还夺取了亚速海沿岸，控制了马里乌波尔（Mariupol）和别尔江斯克（Berdyansk），将亚速海变成了俄罗斯的内海，同时扼守黑海门户刻赤（Kerch），切断乌克兰出海通路。在第聂伯河下游的奥列什基（Oleshky）等地，大约2500名平民和儿童被困在缺乏食物与物资的绝境中，俄军封锁路线不予放行，乌方仍在竭尽全力尝试解救。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 乌克兰前线控制区与战略态势 accDescr: 展示乌克兰各区域当前的控制权、第聂伯河对峙及全境面临的远程空袭威胁。 subgraph Occupied ["俄军占领区（约占国土 18%-19%）"] Crimea["克里米亚半岛"] Azov["亚速海沿岸：马里乌波尔、别尔江斯克"] Donbas["顿巴斯核心区：卢甘斯克州全部、顿涅茨克州大部"] end subgraph Frontline ["交火与隔河对峙线"] KhersonDnipro["赫尔松市：乌方收复市区，隔第聂伯河与俄军对峙遭持续炮击"] ZaporizhzhiaCity["扎波罗热市：乌方牢固控制，俄军长期觊觎但无法攻克"] end subgraph DefenseZone ["顿巴斯乌控重镇与工业腹地"] Strongholds["坚固防线：斯拉维扬斯克、克拉马托尔斯克、德鲁日基夫卡"] IndustrialHub["工业命脉：第聂伯罗彼得罗夫斯克、帕夫洛格勒、尼科波尔、克里沃罗格"] Strongholds -->|"一旦失守威胁"| IndustrialHub end subgraph WesternStrikes ["全境远程空袭威胁"] AirAttacks["导弹与无人机袭击：基辅、卢茨克、日托米尔、敖德萨等"] end ``` 谈及关键战局时，泽连斯基指出： - **赫尔松方向**：乌军历经艰苦战斗收复了赫尔松主城区。第聂伯河横贯其间，乌军驻扎在一岸，俄军盘踞在对岸并不断向城区倾泻炮弹。 - **总体占领面积**：俄军目前控制了克里米亚、卢甘斯克州绝大部分以及顿涅茨克州大片地区，总计占乌克兰领土的约18%到19%。俄罗斯官方对内宣传的地图与实际控制线存在巨大差异，乌方掌握着精确的前线态势图。 --- ### [01:35:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5759s) 俄军全境空袭与普京的领土野心除了前线阵地战，俄罗斯持续使用巡航导弹和无人机对乌克兰纵深发起无差别打击。就在采访当天，乌克兰西部的卢茨克（Lutsk）遭遇空袭造成平民丧生；首都基辅以及日托米尔（Zhytomyr）也处于频繁的轰炸之下；泽连斯基提及曾陪同英国大臣目睹一处被击中地点，现场有23人惨遭杀害；黑海重要港口敖德萨也反复遭到炮击。唯有罗夫诺（Rivne）和利沃夫（Lviv）等距离接触线和俄罗斯本土极远的极西部地区，遭受的大规模空袭相对较少。泽连斯基揭示了普京尚未公开宣扬的战略图谋： - 普京不仅意图长期霸占顿巴斯，更企图占领乌克兰控制下的扎波罗热市、赫尔松市和尼古拉耶夫（Mykolaiv），只是俄军在战场上根本无力推进。 - 俄方的实际要求是要乌克兰彻底退出东部，拱手交出斯拉维扬斯克（Sloviansk）、克拉马托尔斯克（Kramatorsk）和德鲁日基夫卡（Druzhkivka）。 - 这片区域不仅是乌军精心构筑的重兵防御中枢，更是通往第聂伯罗彼得罗夫斯克州平原的门户。其后方紧邻帕夫洛格勒（Pavlohrad）、尼科波尔（Nikopol）以及泽连斯基的家乡克里沃罗格（Kryvyi Rih），这些城市构成了乌克兰的重工业、机械制造与经济命脉。泽连斯基严正指出放弃东部防线的致命后果：“如果把我们的这些城市拱手让人，风险将无法估量。一旦他决定继续向前推进，他就能夺取我们大量的城市。” --- ### [01:39:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5964s) 停火妥协的危险、安全保障与核武器威胁针对外界要求乌克兰接受停火协议的声音，泽连斯基做出了犀利的回击。他指出，乌克兰在承受了如此惨重的伤亡之后，仅仅“同意停火、让战争停下来”本身就已经是一个巨大的妥协。然而俄罗斯却贪得无厌，要求乌军从现有阵地进一步撤退： - 泽连斯基质问：“如果我们撤退了，安全保障到底在哪里？更不用说这本身就极其不公。” - 乌克兰对安全保障持完全开放态度，明确提出加入北约是最佳选择；但西方某些势力却总是对俄罗斯的反应瞻前顾后，不敢给出切实的安全承诺。面对俄军的野蛮行径，主持人询问乌克兰是否担忧俄罗斯可能孤注一掷使用核武器等更具毁灭性的终极手段。泽连斯基坦言，在目睹了俄军犯下的种种暴行之后，任何人都会闪过这种担忧，但他认为目前俄罗斯不敢越过核门槛：“就目前而言，我认为他们不敢冒使用核武器的风险，因为那样一来，我确信他们将失去所有仅存的盟友。” ### [01:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6000s) 核风险评估与普京对克里姆林宫权力的执念泽连斯基深入分析了俄罗斯动用核武器的现实可能性。他指出，对于包括美国和中国在内的全球核大国而言，打破核禁忌的危险性实在太高；一旦某一个国家在局部冲突中使用核武器，哪怕是在中东或其他大洲的战场上，就意味着核武器可能被二次甚至三次投入实战，这种连锁反应是任何核大国都无法承受的。基于这种地缘政治制约，他判断普京不会冒天下之大不韪去动用核武器。然而，泽连斯基话锋一转，提醒外界不要忽视面对的是怎样一个人以及怎样的政治体系。他确信普京和这套体系将互相捆绑、至死方休：“因为只有当他的生命走向终点时，他才会离开克里姆林宫，并将权力——从肉体层面、以自然演替的方式移交出去，我对这一点深信不疑。” ### [01:40:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6056s) 特朗普的指责、柴油风波与乌克兰能源反击的真相主持人斯蒂芬·巴特利特（Steven Bartlett）将话题转向当周备受争议的一场外交风波：由于全球面临能源紧张，特朗普据称与俄罗斯就柴油供应达成了某种共识，并要求乌克兰不要袭击俄罗斯境内的能源基础设施。巴特利特随后在现场播放了一段特朗普此前公开发表的视频片段。视频中，特朗普严厉批评泽连斯基：“泽连斯基原本可以多次解决这场战争，但他选择不解决……我们对他们说，你可以对俄罗斯做任何事，但不要打击炼油厂，因为那会引发全球性问题。而他却想给全世界制造麻烦，想用柴油给我们的农民、农场主制造麻烦，因为俄罗斯向全世界供应了大量的柴油……可他做了什么？他转头就去炸柴油设施……他最好立刻停下来。”特朗普在视频结尾甚至直言，乌克兰需要换一个新总统。针对特朗普的猛烈抨击，泽连斯基逐一进行了坚决反驳。首先在数据与事实上，他明确表示俄罗斯出口柴油的总量微不足道，对美国国内的柴油价格产生的影响“绝对为零”，所谓乌克兰打击炼油厂推高美国油价的说法完全是虚假信息。其次在战术逻辑上，乌克兰打击俄罗斯能源基础设施绝非无端挑衅，而是对俄军系统性摧毁乌克兰电网的自卫反击：“他们打击我们的电力系统，我们的人民生活在黑暗与断电中；我们没有油气与柴油去承受这种打击，而他们靠柴油赚钱并把钱砸进武器里，所以我们回击他们的柴油。” 泽连斯基透露，他曾多次向特朗普提出建立“能源停火”（energy ceasefire）机制的建议，只要俄方停止轰炸乌克兰的民用电网，乌克兰绝不会主动去碰俄罗斯的炼油厂，然而普京根本不同意任何能源停火。泽连斯基批评特朗普不敢向普京施压，反而将矛盾转嫁给乌克兰，并将中东霍尔木兹海峡受阻引发的全球能源困局推卸到乌克兰头上：“普京拒绝了他提出的能源停火，于是这位总统决定不把问题归咎于普京，而是扣在我头上，向本国人民解释说这就是美国柴油价格上涨的原因，这完全不是事实。” 泽连斯基随后提出了一个极其务实的解决方案：如果美国无法强迫普京停火，那就向乌克兰提供足够的防空导弹来保护变电站和电网，乌克兰甚至承诺不仅不需要白送，而且由欧洲国家全额出资购买。但令乌克兰感到寒心的是，美方以“库存受限”为由拒绝向乌克兰提供爱国者导弹，转头却将大批导弹送往中东：“欧洲人出钱资助这一切，资金已经到位，协议也有了，但他们却说不能给我们。他们把所有东西都送给了中东……给中东送去爱国者导弹，跟普京做柴油交易，却期望我面对乌克兰境内的能源袭击时打不还手，这极不公平。”针对特朗普称乌克兰“需要换总统”的言论，主持人补充道，近期民调显示约76%的乌克兰民众反对在战时举行大选。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 乌俄能源交锋与特朗普指责的逻辑链条 accDescr: 展示俄军袭击乌克兰电网、乌方反击炼油厂、特朗普将美国油价归咎于乌方以及泽连斯基提出解决方案的逻辑全过程。 subgraph Conflict ["战局前线交锋"] A["俄军轰炸乌克兰民用电网"] --> B["乌克兰平民断电受冻"] B --> C["乌军反击俄炼油厂削弱其军费"] end subgraph US_Reaction ["美国政坛反应"] C --> D["特朗普指责乌军推高全球柴油价格"] D --> E["特朗普声称乌克兰需要更换总统"] end subgraph UA_Proposal ["泽连斯基的解决方案"] F["方案一：促成美俄乌‘能源互不袭击停火’（被普京拒绝）"] G["方案二：美方提供爱国者防空导弹（欧洲出资购买）"] F -.-> H["美方拒绝提供导弹，指责仍由乌克兰承担"] G -.-> H end ``` ### [01:45:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6348s) 终战的现实路径与被地缘政治绑架的美国政策探讨到这场战争的终局与现实路径时，泽连斯基强调，结束战争的主动权很大程度上依然掌握在美国手里。只要特朗普拿出公开抨击乌克兰的强硬态度去面对普京，就完全有能力迅速将俄罗斯逼回谈判桌前。他指出，美国国会早已通过了严厉的对俄制裁法案，法案就摆在总统办公桌上，随时可以签署执行。但特朗普为何迟迟不对普京采取同样激烈的言辞和行动？泽连斯基坦言自己无法理解：“我不知道原因。也许他们之间有某种特殊关系，也许是其他原因……可能涉及一些经济交易，或者老交情，我无法揣测。” 面对主持人提出的“中期选举临近，美国政客可能更关心国内油价而非乌克兰命运”的说法，泽连斯基深深叹了一口气。他再次重申，美国是能源净出口国，私营能源巨头在全球市场上自由出口赚取暴利，白宫既没有也不会禁止能源出口，将国内物价波动怪罪于乌克兰反击俄炼油厂在经济学上根本站不住脚。泽连斯基神色严峻但充满底气地总结道：“时间终究站在坦诚、准备好进行诚实对话并顽强抗争的人这一边，这意味时间最终将站在我们这边。” ### [01:48:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6489s) 致美国听众的临别赠言：珍惜和平与铭记援助在访谈步入尾声之际，主持人请泽连斯基向以美国观众为主的全球受众留下最后一番话。泽连斯基先是幽默地打趣希望这不要成为自己人生中的“遗言”，随后收起笑容，向身处政治动荡与撕裂中的美国人民致以诚挚的祝福。他感慨当前的世界陷入了一种狂乱状态，俄罗斯与伊朗的挑衅让战火与流血四处蔓延。正因如此，他更加珍视普通人平凡生活的可贵：“我祝愿美国能够继续保持为一个伟大的国家，保持坚强，享有和平；让人们能够正常工作，能够回家陪伴孩子，能够祈祷，享受家庭晚餐。我祝愿美国拥有宁静与和平。” 最后，泽连斯基代表乌克兰人民向大洋彼岸表达了由衷的感激，明确表示无论当下的外交风波如何波折，乌克兰绝不会忘记美国在至暗时刻所给予的巨大支持与援助。巴特利特对泽连斯基在面临星链网络中断及诸多内部危机的情况下依然坚持完成深度对话表示了感谢，两人在互致问候中结束了长达近两小时的访谈。 - 泽连斯基判断普京绝不会主动交出克里姆林宫的权力，政权交接只可能在其自然生命终结时发生。 - 俄罗斯出口柴油规模极小，对美国国内油价无实质影响，将油价上涨归咎于乌克兰反击俄炼油厂属于偷换概念。 - 乌克兰曾向美方提议建立能源互不侵犯协议，但遭到普京拒绝；乌克兰提出由欧洲出资向美国购买爱国者防空导弹，但被美方拒绝交付。 - 民调显示约76%的乌克兰民众反对在当前战时状态下举行总统选举。 - 泽连斯基强调美国国会已通过强力对俄制裁案，只要美方对普京施加同等强硬的态度，促成和谈并非难事。 ## Notable quotes > [46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2808s) 无论是我还是特朗普，我们都不可能永远坐在总统的位子上。不管是哪种情况，特朗普的总统任期终究会结束，而普京依然不会改变他的根本目标——那就是吞并乌克兰。 — 泽连斯基 > [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=0s) 当你在美国或英国发现一个埋有500名受尽折磨之人的万人坑时，你又该如何原谅？这就是为什么当特朗普总统说我们需要寻找妥协时，你不能就这样轻易原谅一切。 — 泽连斯基 > [09:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=593s) 如果你感到痛苦，你不应该说‘我什么都感觉不到’。因为人类天生就是有血有肉的，这是他们的弱点，但也是一个人的力量所在。 — 泽连斯基 > [01:45:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6348s) 时间终究站在坦诚、准备好进行诚实对话并顽强抗争的人这一边，这意味时间最终将站在我们这边。 — 泽连斯基 > [06:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=375s) 我是一个普通人。我不为展现真实的自我而感到羞耻。我不是世界上最强壮的人。我试着树立榜样，但我绝对不是一个完美的人。 — 泽连斯基 ## Mentioned 泽连斯基, 史蒂文·巴特利特, 弗拉基米尔·普京, 乔·拜登, 唐纳德·特朗普, 安杰伊·杜达, 奥莱娜·泽连斯卡娅, 瓦西里·戈洛博罗德科, 列宁, 人民公仆, Kvartal 95, 帕丁顿熊, 爱国者导弹, 星链, 布达佩斯备忘录, 明斯克协议 ## Video description What does it truly cost a human being to lead a nation through an existential war while the world watches from afar? President Volodymyr Zelenskyy reveals the psychological toll of continuous survival, the grim realities of geopolitical negotiation, and what keeps him still standing. Volodymyr Zelenskyy is the President of Ukraine, having led the nation through its darkest historical hours following the full-scale Russian invasion in 2022. A former lawyer, comedian, and actor turned wartime leader, he transitioned from satirical television to the global stage. His current administration focuses on securing Ukraine's sovereignty, managing international diplomacy, and defending democratic freedom against imperial aggression. In this episode, he explains: ■ The Burden of Command: How constant psychological pressure and nightly military briefings push his endurance to its limits under relentless wartime pressure. ■ The Fatal Miscalculation: Why Russia's catastrophic military mistake came from a failure to recognize Ukrainians as a distinct people willing to fight for their freedom. ■ The Turning Point of Atrocity: How witnessing the aftermath of war in liberated towns transformed a political conflict into deeply personal tragedy where easy forgiveness became impossible. ■ The Cost of Staying: Why the refusal to evacuate Kyiv was driven by the absolute need to remain visible and prevent the nation from surrendering out of fear. ■ The Geopolitical Reality: How true diplomatic peace requires holding aggressive regimes fully accountable for their crimes rather than shifting the blame onto global energy markets. This episode was recorded on October 16, 2026. 00:00 Intro 02:07 How Is Zelensky Really Doing? 06:15 "I Don't Sleep": The Human Cost of War 09:53 What Keeps Zelensky Going 11:24 Growing Up in Soviet Ukraine 13:18 His Family Killed by the Nazis 13:38 From Law Student to Comedian 15:50 He Played a President on TV, Then Became One 17:21 Why Zelensky Left Comedy for Politics 20:24 When Did the Russia-Ukraine War Really Start? 24:59 Putin's Plan to Rebuild the Soviet Union 33:19 Why Putin Invaded in 2022 36:34 Did Biden's Weakness Let Putin Invade? 40:00 The Warnings Before the Invasion 41:46 Where Zelensky Was When Russia Invaded 46:48 Would This Have Happened Under Trump? 48:53 How Russia Planned to Take Kyiv 53:19 The 40-Mile Convoy: Why Russia Failed 55:13 Biden's Evacuation Offer: "I Need Ammunition" 59:38 Was Zelensky Scared? 1:02:24 The Moment the War Became Real 1:05:07 Russia's Big Mistake: Parade Uniforms 1:12:27 The Battle for Hostomel Airport 1:14:51 What Happened in Bucha 1:21:08 His Hardest Day: "I Wanted Revenge" 1:23:43 How the War Has Changed Him 1:29:02 Being a Father During the War 1:32:10 His Mum's Daily Phone Calls 1:33:06 Map: What Russia Occupies Now 1:35:59 Russia's Strikes Across Ukraine 1:37:02 What Putin Really Wants 1:39:24 Will Putin Use Nuclear Weapons? 1:40:56 Trump Says Ukraine Needs a New President 1:45:48 How This War Ends: Trump, Putin & a Ceasefire 1:48:09 Zelensky's Message to America Follow President Volodymyr Zelenskyy: The Diary Of A CEO: ◼ Join DOAC circle here - https://doaccircle.com/ ◼ Buy The Diary Of A CEO book here - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/BWjLTZK ◼ Shop The Diary Of A CEO collection: https://thediary.com/collections/shop ◼ Get email updates - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/5IB1H6E ◼ Follow Steven - https://link.thediaryofaceo.com/AGU9QP4 SYNCID MB01M4DAH6EHQX0 [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58)

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[46:48] 泽连斯基: 无论是我还是特朗普，我们都不可能永远坐在总统的位子上。不管是哪种情况，特朗普的总统任期终究会结束，而普京依然不会改变他的根本目标——那就是吞并乌克兰。 [0:00] 泽连斯基: 当你在美国或英国发现一个埋有500名受尽折磨之人的万人坑时，你又该如何原谅？这就是为什么当特朗普总统说我们需要寻找妥协时，你不能就这样轻易原谅一切。 [9:53] 泽连斯基: 如果你感到痛苦，你不应该说‘我什么都感觉不到’。因为人类天生就是有血有肉的，这是他们的弱点，但也是一个人的力量所在。 [105:48] 泽连斯基: 时间终究站在坦诚、准备好进行诚实对话并顽强抗争的人这一边，这意味时间最终将站在我们这边。 [6:15] 泽连斯基: 我是一个普通人。我不为展现真实的自我而感到羞耻。我不是世界上最强壮的人。我试着树立榜样，但我绝对不是一个完美的人。

Source quotes

[25:00] Volodymyr Zelenskyy: Empires don't survive on freedom. [46:48] Volodymyr Zelenskyy: Trump's presidency would have ended and Putin still wouldn't have been able to change his main goal: the occupation of Ukraine. So I think that honestly, it doesn't matter who the president is, as long as Putin is there. [25:00] Volodymyr Zelenskyy: The fish tank can be massive like the Soviet Union, but it's still a fish tank.

Original transcript

[0:00] President Zelensky, how are you doing? Well, it's hard I'll be honest I Don't sleep. It's a huge, terrifying pain that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I can see the tears in your eyes. Yeah. Yeah. The war started February 24th. Of 22, I didn't think there would be a full-scale invasion. I was with my family, told my wife that to the kids, the war has started. I love you, I'll call you. And ran out. Satellite imagery captured a massive 64-kilometer long Russian military convoy leading to Kiev. And just imagine, 200,000 people are coming at you. It's simply impossible to defend. The missiles were raining down on your head. Those were absolutely horrifying moments. I was in the bunker built right inside my office. Biden called me. We are ready to help you evacuate. What did you say to Biden? I need ammunition, not a ride. They expected people to run and me. I couldn't abandon the people. And then people showed up as volunteers. And our army grew from 200,000 to an army of 800,000. Day after day, we pushed back harder. What was your hardest day through the last four years? I went there, dead bodies lying everywhere. Kids, adults, elderly people chopped meat, butchered them, hands tied, tortured, and then buried in pits. When you see a mass today finding a grave in the US or in Britain, God forbid, with 500 tortured people, how do you forgive? And that's why when President Trump says we need to find a compromise, well, you can't just forgive everything like that. Is there a realistic path to the end of this war? President Zelensky. Sometimes... the question I'm about to ask you, we answer it flippantly when people ask, but I really want you to answer it in the fullest honest context you possibly can. How are you doing? Well, it's hard. Uh... Hard because it's like I'm surviving along with my country and with the people. And it's like really a question like, will tomorrow come or not? And the answer to that is, yes, it will. You can't answer it any other way because I am, that means my family, my relatives, my country, I'm an inseparable part of it. And so how do I feel? Hard, but with love. Understanding the difficult reality with optimism because I still believe good wins. I believe in that. Truly. Is it a bit of a rollercoaster on a human level for you? Are there days where... Thank you. There's more hope and days where there's less hope. You can't live without hope. I understand sometimes inside, you know, you can be shattered inside, especially during wartime, especially. um, families who, you know, lose some, someone close in the, in their family, um, child God forbid or a wife a husband a mother that is it's just an internal breakdown it's very hard and and It's much harder for them, I believe. just so much harder than it is for me. with all these challenges. The weight of all of this sits... often on your shoulders and when someone does lose a child or a loved one or a wife or a sister or daughter I imagine... As I've seen from some of these photos I have here of you, I mean, this photo in particular stands out to me. Oh, that's a terrible story. It's just a terrible story that was... That's when a missile hit a playground. And the missile speed was such that the siren didn't help at all. So it was a matter of seconds. And the missile struck and children were killed. And both children were killed there. Mostly and adults just adults right there a couple I remember they were just out walking passing by and Because they were walking by and and and were killed and Parents, You know? Like, Right on this side, there are homes too, and parents there, they... [5:00] Some of them saw through the window. Do you understand what it's like to see through a window one of your children just torn apart? And toys, during such a tragedy, it's a tradition to bring flowers for adults and toys for children. I went there. It's pain. I'll say it again. My pain can't even, it's not even 10% of the parents' pain. It's terrifying. Just terrifying. A missile that cut short the life of a child who had seen nothing yet. Imagine. By the way, and there are children, a lot of them, among the fallen as well, who never lived in peace. i mean we we lived in in in a different time we understand what it's like to live when there are no sirens no shelling and so on but there are kids every night they go down to the bomb shelter when the alarm goes off and the alarm goes off every night then they come back up and some of them have died and just imagine there are children who never knew what peace was that horrifying absolutely you said at the start of this invasion this war that you weren sleeping You said early in this invasion you said you not earned the right to sleep. And I'm really curious about the sort of human toll that all of this has taken on you over the last four or five years, because it never stops. It never ends. And you are a human being, just like all the rest of us. You have a family, you have kids, but you have the the burden of this kind of horrific incident taking place in your country at all all the time what is what is the sort of human burden there and are you sleeping uh i'll be honest i uh don't sleep i'm a responsible person i have different traits good ones not so good ones like every person nobody's perfect yeah and every night i speak with our air defense operators, with our guys who run the air defense. Every night we talk. Well, yeah, thanks to modern technology, it's very easy. And we text back and forth what's needed right now. Let's pull some over from another region. So it an active discussion which obviously well doesn let you sleep Yeah getting eight hours of sleep like that is something totally new to me during these years almost five years of war I'm not complaining. I'm not complaining at all. And that's how I live. The burden, the strongest emotion. I once answered this honestly. There's a moment when I present awards. And there's this moment when I award, and personally the hero of Ukraine, it's the highest honor, when I present this award to parents who lost a child, a boy or a girl, soldiers. That feeling, you know, well, how I cease to exist in that moment. I'm just, well, it's not pain, it's something terrible. I look at these people, at their eyes, at what they say. Many of them say something. And there are people who just ask for a hug. Imagine you give an award to a father whose very strong hand you can feel. He a strong man You feel his strong hand and he just quietly says to you can we hug So they well you know they gone Gone as people anymore. Well for a time. Then strong people try to survive. And these moments, on the one hand, I respect them, I do it. But on the other hand, it's hard to bear. I understand them. It's a huge, terrifying pain that I wouldn't wish on anyone. What these parents feel, having lost a child, a soldier. These parents didn't lose a child on a playground. They lost a soldier. They knew that could happen. But knowing and losing are completely different things. I can see the tears in your eyes as you describe this. I'm a human being. I'm not ashamed to be who I am. I'm not the strongest man in the world. I try to set an example, but I'm definitely not a perfect person. Is there anything that you – because this is a lot to deal with. I hear you recounting the stories of dealing with these parents. [10:00] that you you do to take care of yourself what is it that keeps you strong my kids. my kids. I, I just... I have to be An example. I told myself, maybe I don't have to, but that's what I told myself. I have to set an example for my kids. This is the way, That is not, and you have to set an example, be strong, be as brave as possible, but Don't. Mm-hmm. Don't hide the pain. If you have it, you shouldn't say, I don't feel anything. Because human beings, by nature, they're alive. And that's their weakness. But it's also where a person's strength lies. That really is where our strength is. And so my kids keep me grounded, very much so. I want to set an example. I want them to be proud of me. We'll talk about that later. But there's one big outstanding question, which is who is President Zelensky? And I've been through hundreds and hundreds of photos and stories from your childhood. I've got some wonderful photos here. of your... earliest days and yeah and this is a beautiful one if you're wonderful mother as well That's my mom. Yeah. Mom was very beautiful. Well, she still is, but she's gotten older. Can you take me into your earliest context, just so I can get a sort of a view of what childhood was like for you? What's the context in which you grew up? And really, I want to understand how that context works. and early experience fed into the man you are today the perspective you have the values that you cherish I'm from the generation that straddled to, let's say, two different lives. Meaning I was born in the Soviet Union when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and I grew up in an independent Ukraine. And I've always said that my kids, They're lucky because they were born in an independent country without all these shades of gray. This is great. That's something else. No, it's black and white. Totally clear. They're patriots. They love their country and their country is Ukraine. While we were born in the Soviet Union and, you know, we were. kids from a fairly, let's say, not, I don't want to offend anyone. So my dad doesn't get upset. Well, from a regular, very ordinary family, not family. Not very well off. Let's put it that way. Yeah, let's put it that way. Well, that's and I think it's totally clear from the photos. Kai was born in Krivi Rih, an academic family. in Soviet era Ukraine wasn't not like, you know, in Europe or in the United States, an academic family with everything provided. Usually our academics didn't make a lot of money. But again, I'm not complaining. I respect my father, an honest man, a professor. Well, values. again and again. I got an education and I got raised right. And my parents love. I think those three things are enough to be grateful to your parents. I'm not sure people find this interesting, so let's move on. When you were a young boy in those photos, when you're under the age of 10, Had I asked you what you wanted to be when you grew up, what would you have answered? Because and to be honest, I changed like the wind. Honestly, there was a time when I really wanted to be a diplomat, wanted to be a border guard. Yeah. And then I went to law school, graduated from law faculty. And while studying, I realized that I was more interested in Media. So I got out and started working that exact field. I mean, at 17 years old, you became interested in comedy. Yeah. And you joined a comedy group. And from what I read, you did that up until the age of about 26 years old. So you were a comedian up until the age of 26 years old. before starting a media company? I, yeah, but I was more, I enjoyed, I was a script writer. And so sometimes as a writer, I also did a little acting. I enjoyed it. Until I was 26 and then at 26 I got my own company. There's some. Interesting stats I found. 28 years old, you won Ukraine's Dancing with the Stars. Yeah. Yeah. [15:00] So you can dance? I think yes. I'm not sure I did now I can. And later you voiced Paddington Bear in the Ukrainian language film. Yeah. I really... really loved. I think Paddington is a very cool thing. really right and for the people. I'm not sure all of it is just for kids, to be honest, but nonetheless... That character resonated deeply with me. And even after I became president of... the next Paddington installment was coming out. And all this was before the war. And they were sending me signals, would you consider voicing another Paddington movie? I said, well, I'd really love to, but I didn't. No. And then between 34 years old and 37 years old, you appeared in a bunch of different feature films. And most interestingly, you starred as one particular character, a schoolteacher. who accidentally becomes president in the satirical TV series called Servant of the People. I think I have a photo. Yeah, teacher of history. You've got to explain the context here because people can't believe that this is true. They can't believe that you actually acted as an actor who accidentally becomes president. And you must find this... Bizarre. you that you then became president? Because presumably at that time you weren't expecting to become president when you became an actor pretending to be president. Absolutely. I definitely didn't expect it. Absolutely. And this idea, this idea was about 10 to 12 years old. Once... this idea came to me and I thought about it. I lived with this idea for a long time. I love doing that. And at some point, the feeling was that The world is changing. Ukraine is changing. And right now, this idea is relevant. It will resonate and people will like it. What was the idea? When you say the idea. The person from the people. without any history, without any political background, becomes president. And that's how it turned out. to be honest. so you uh playing a character... in a TV series called Servant of the People and the character was pretending to be the president and you, and you realise that actually the idea of there being a sort of servant of the people party or president was probably quite a good idea based on what was going on in Ukraine at that time. And because of the government instability at the time, you actually registered servant of the people as a real political party in Ukraine. Well, that sounds basically like a pretty good script, but it wasn't honestly calculated like that. The series was very popular. In parallel, there were a few other projects. We had a political satire project. It was very popular. It was even before that series. So I already had my bearings in politics anyway. The point was that indeed I decided. to try my hand in this direction. I really wanted, after the occupation of Crimea, after the occupation of Donbass, this whole situation changed us. And you started to feel like something was going wrong here. and it's war, but there still wasn't that feeling yet because it wasn't a full-scale war. And so... I, I, didn't want to. We were doing business with Belarus and with Kazakhstan and with Russia as well. We had offices and projects that we were filming and so on. So life changed. I wanted to drop it all. And this sense of betrayal by Russia. Well, all of that happened, and that's why And you changed this whole period, changed you as well. And so it's not like it was some calculated plan. The TV show comes out and then a political party. I know about that. I know about that. Some people might think that. And that's fine. That's normal. People have their own opinions. That's normal. Okay. It coincided. the mood in society. coincided with my inner mood and with my determination and desire so it's a coincidence of many things there should be a button just down below here and if it says subscribe you're already subscribed if it says subscriber that means you're not yet and if you're not subscribed please could you do us a favor and hit that button it helps to show more than you know and according to the algorithm you're someone that watches our show but you haven't yet hit it [20:00] that button. Thank you so much. So. You talked about how It was really sort of a change in the climate in Ukraine that caused you to move closer to politics because everything that was going on at the time, Russia invaded Crimea here in 2014. Yeah. The annexed Crimea. And this is, and so four years after this point, You... announce that you're going to run for president. Thank you. Is this really when the war began? in your view because there's been lots of people that have posited when the war began some people say the war began a thousand years ago and they talk about the old crimea and the everything that took place there with the ruse um some people say it began in 2014 and some people say it began in 2022. in your mind when did the war begin I think... For many people that time really is different, but if we take take. the new Ukraine that regained its independence in 1991 in the 20th century, then I think that in 2014, all of us just couldn't believe it that this kind of occupation was happening. The war really started with the occupation of Crimea. That's true. It's just that it was slow. that occupation. It didn't look much like a war. Why? Well, because Ukraine wasn't fighting back at that point, meaning when they occupied Crimea, there were shots fired there, of course, but for a very long time, Russia wouldn't admit these were its people. They looked like regular people. They even called them little green men. That's what they called them because you couldn't tell what And the problem was that there were no clear orders from the Ukrainian authorities that you need to defend your land, that someone violated your borders with weapons and is seizing, seizing, gradually seizing Crimea. So it was really that kind of creeping occupation. Looking at that time today, not back in 2014, not in 2015, but today you realize that that's when the war really began. Our mistake was not pushing them back. And of course, if there have been an order. an order to defend the country. I'm sure that I think a full-scale war that, in the form it has today wouldn't have happened. Well, at least that's how it seems to me. I read that your great-grandfather and his grandfather's four brothers were killed by the Nazis, and his grandfather was the only brother to survive the war. And I wondered how that experience of having... that in your... family tree has... changed how you think about this moment in time when you're facing a war with Russia and My grandfather went through World War II. from start to finish. My grandfather, my father's dad, And he was from a family where there were several brothers and all of them were killed by the Nazis. I have very few relatives in general on both sides of my family on my father's and my mother's. Many relatives were killed by the fascists. And that's all. That's why it always sounded so bizarre when Russia accused us Ukraine of supposedly having Nazis. completely wild. If people all knew even a little bit of history, they would realize that fascists in Ukraine, fascism as such doesn't exist. Why? Because Ukraine understands deep in its roots what it means to be under the fascists. Because during World War Two, Ukraine was occupied 100% completely. Completely, totally. Whereas Russia, Ukraine, Belarus was occupied, Ukraine and Nazi Germany, it lost a huge number of its soldiers who died specifically in Belarus, Ukraine, because we all well, because our countries or our lands, they stood and fought. Russia was not occupied. And that is also very important to understand. That's why all of our people in Ukraine saw it. Well, you know, as barbaric and an outrage when Putin attacked us and said we have fascism and he's liberating Ukraine from fascists. I mean, it's absurd. We fought against the fascists. We were the ones liberating it. A lot of people don't have the historical context on how this all began. [25:00] If I was a 16 year old, and I had no understanding of geopolitics, and I asked you, President, I said, could you explain to me the background context that I need to understand to understand what the hell is going on at the moment? Why are Russia going into Crimea? What is... Vladimir Putin's perspective. Why does he think that that's okay? Why does he think that he can invade Ukraine? What is the historical context explained in the simplest terms to a 16-year-old about what the hell is going on here? And I'm going to give you all the time in the world to inform me. There was a An empire called the Soviet Union. and that empire, it included a large number of what are now independent states. It's always like that with empires. Without getting into the historical context, everyone will understand this. It's always like that with empires. Empires exist for a while. and then they... collapse. Thank you. Because you can only hold everything together through autocracy, a territory like that. So many people through Tyranny? through feudalism, through slavery, certainly not through freedom. Empires don't survive on freedom. And this is very important. Why do empires fall apart? Because people want to be free. Because people compare their lives in an empire with life in other countries, even small ones. They see how things develop there. They see how things develop there, how they live, walk freely, choose any partner they want, whatever hair color you like, music, clothes, and so on. While the Soviet Union, these empires, like everyone always said, the iron curtain. Why an Iron Curtain? So you wouldn't see what's out there in the West. in Europe, in the United States of America, in Britain, or anywhere in Asia. So people couldn't see. In terms of information, An empire is... Hold. control everything, right? So a complete information vacuum. There you don't exist. Nothing exists. No internet, nothing. Television that you run and control, and people get the information. People live like fish in a fish tank. That's all it is. The fish tank can be massive like the Soviet Union, but it's still a fish tank. North Korea is a smaller fish tank, but it's a fish tank. And that's what happened with the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union fell apart. Countries were happy. countries became independent, smaller. Ukraine is one of those countries. And When identity emerges, You have your own language, your own music, your own clothes, and so on. What exists all around the world, it's great. Tourism. You travel to Asia. You travel to Thailand. You travel to Japan. You travel to the United States. Different culture, different music, food, people, and everyone lives freely. And it's really cool to soak in another culture. That's the diversity. Why does an empire fall apart because it's made up of these kinds of people. nations that want to have their own thing. The Soviet Union fell apart. but nostalgia for the Soviet Union. Stayed with people. you Putin. was the president of Russia. And he set a goal for himself. And he's a purely Soviet man. a very Soviet man. He was an intelligence officer. He worked in the KGB, in the KGB in Germany and so on. He said... And this is his very famous phrase, that the greatest collapse of the 20th century in the world was the fall of the Soviet Union. And all of that shows that Russia just wasn't enough for him and he had the ambition to to go back to that, to bring back the empire, to bring back the Soviet Union, because he believes that another major country is to blame for the collapse of the Soviet Union. Which one? the United States of America. Because this has always been a geopolitical war. They're enemies. the Soviet Union, and the United States of America, they were allies during World War II. And after that, You know. their enemies, the Cold War and so on. So it's very simple. Putin wanted to bring back the Soviet Union. And what is the Soviet Union? It is above all Ukraine. Ukraine, it's Ukraine. Ukraine is country number two. Why? Thank you. They called the Soviet Union a forge of talent. in Ukraine, there were so many people who later had that kind of education. Because there were many scientists, many engineers, many universities, [30:00] a huge intelligentsia. That's what they said, that for the Soviet Union, Ukraine was the forge of talent. In other words, In other words, many people who came from Ukraine, who then ran various institutions, ministries in the Soviet Union and so on, meaning it's the intellectual part of the Soviet Union. Ukraine was always the biggest rocket manufacturing was here. Nuclear weapons, which Ukraine handed over. A lot of things were made in Ukraine. And... What's the problem? for Russia. If Ukraine becomes part of Europe, And without the Soviet Union, Ukraine started taking gradual steps in the other direction. Meaning if Ukraine becomes part of Europe, then Russia will collapse. it will fall apart. There are many different peoples, different religions, entirely and simply different nations into many different countries. And Putin decided to piece this whole empire back together. This ambition, where do you start piecing it together? He started the war in Chechnya. He occupied Chechnya. a small country. that is now part of Russia. He destroyed it completely. Everything that's happening in eastern Ukraine, it's... The very same commanders, military commanders who fought in Chechnya, who destroyed Chechnya completely. There was nothing left, no buildings, nothing. People were killed, killed. A huge number of people, by the way, were killed in Chechnya. And he occupied it. And then he decided to bring back the Empire. starting with Ukraine, with a free state, one that wants to be in the European Union, one that is smart, intellectual, other countries too. But here, here's what it is. Well, and the start, there always has to be a pretext. to start an occupation. What pretext? It's always a pretext. The pretext is always language. And he starts with Crimea. He starts the occupation with Crimea. Why? In Crimea, there were a lot of Russian speaking people, Russian speaking Ukrainians. But. to understand this and to In Crimea, there was deportation. There was more than one deportation, expulsion of the Tatars. In other words, Crimea has indigenous peoples and it's a multi-ethnic peninsula. But what happened is he started the occupation with Crimea. and with Domba, with the East. Why? Because he divided society, unleashed this war based on language. Because language is always such an issue, a painful issue. And when you want to divide society, it's totally unfair. It's totally despicable toward the people. You start bringing up the language issue. So he brought it up, said that I'm protecting Russian speaking people, which wasn't true. Nobody took anything from anyone. Yeah, but it was just easier. The east of the country borders with the Russian Federation. Days before, I think it was the day before Vladimir Putin. ordered troops to invade Ukraine, he did a statement where he said modern Ukraine was entirely and completely created by Russia, more precisely Bolshevik communist Russia. This process began almost immediately after the 1917 revolution. Soviet Ukraine is the result of Bolshevik policy and can rightly be called Vladimir Leans Ukraine. Ukraine never had a tradition of genuine statehood. So He's very much denying that Ukraine is a nation of... Why did he choose to invade Ukraine? February 24th, Why did he choose then to invade? If he had invaded Crimea in 2014, why was, in your view, that the moment where he decided to cross the border and try and, by the looks of it, take control of the whole of Ukraine? First of all, notice he talks about the Soviet Revolution of 1917. That's ridiculous to anyone. Your country's history can't start in 1917. In Ukraine, there are churches, everyone knows, we have very beautiful churches that are a thousand years old. Ukrainian churches painted by Ukrainians, total master professionals, a thousand years old. Ukraine is. It's the heir to Kivan Rus, a great state that was very well known in Europe, on the European continent, at least, with an advanced civilization. It really, with its own art, with its own traditions and so on. Russia wasn't even close to existing. Russia came after Ukraine already existing. [35:00] But he cuts all that out, starts with the revolution. Why from the October Revolution of 1917? Because he's talking about the history of the Soviet Union. Not about the history of Russia. and not about the history of ukraine the soviet union why because he's signaling to people who are in russia who honestly the kids they get information in schools and they take it they don't go any deeper he's signaling to them that their life is the soviet union and that's where we're heading back to that's what he's doing He started a full-scale war. The war started... 24th, 24th of 22 February 24th missile strikes were launched. immediately from the territory. it was flying from every every side troops were also entering from the territory of belarus right from here because it's the closest route to the capital. They were advancing on Kyiv and also came from all directions. The main goal was to seize Kyiv. the capital of Ukraine. That was their main goal. Naturally, they were counting on the tough guys who were both Russian and the separatists already in the occupied territory of Donbass. Why in February 2022? Why not later? Why not sooner? Why was that the moment? What had happened? Because part of the reason I asked this question is because President Donald Trump often blames Joe Biden for being weak and that giving Vladimir Putin an opportunity to invade because he didn't respect Trump. President Biden, that's what's claimed. Is there truth in that? I'll explain. I think that it was a little bit earlier. In 21, There was a summit. I don't remember when anymore. I think I don't remember. There was a Biden-Putin summit. Remember that famous summit? We didn't have all the details. They came out and started talking about something publicly and so on. Then, rumors started that they discussed the issue of a possible escalation against Ukraine. and we kept bringing up this issue over the next few months. We kept bringing it up with the Americans. And this could really happen. And they were saying, well, it could happen. We asked them, then please give us what we need to defend ourselves if there are such risks that some kind of occupation could start. We couldn't imagine, though, that full-scale invasion would start because we saw what Russian occupation looked like with Crimea and with Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. So you imagined it differently. You couldn't imagine that overnight missiles would just start flying. Nobody had ever seen anything like that. Why were kids screaming? Why were people fleeing? Why was there absolute chaos? Those were absolutely horrifying moments because missiles are literally flying at you. Nowadays, a thousand drones fly in and we shoot them down. We fight. But back then, right around four in the morning, missiles were raining down on your head. Everyone was in shock. So he... did it in February because that's what he wanted to do. That was his plan. I think he told Biden a whole lot of things. I remember, unfortunately, I think, unfortunately, President Biden stepped in later in the first minutes or days of the war. I had a call with him back then when he offered to evacuate me. Back then, a lot of people offered me help. I said, give us weapons, help us defend the country. to occupy us. That's what I think happened. I think that... The United States back then, I don't know, maybe they did consider that it could turn out that there'd be a conflict and we might be occupied, but nobody counted on us holding out for sure. I remember that, uh, I think a day before. God, that was so long ago. I've forgotten so much already. A day before the invasion, the Europeans, who knew less than the Americans, they were talking about. with Putin. And Putin promised them there wouldn't be an invasion. Oh, he lied to all of them back then. Just he knew there would be an invasion. He knew everything. When did you first get a phone call telling you that Russia were a plan [40:00] Running to invade Ukraine. How many days before it happened did you get that call and who was the call from? It was never direct like Russia plans an invasion on such and such day and there will be a full scale war like this and that. It was never like that. These were very cautious diplomatic signals and so on. And this, how can I put it? We kept bringing up this issue. Why? Because people were worried. And people were worried. That affected the economy and affected the currency. And the stability of the national currency started to drop, which affected the country's economy. And we asked the Americans, give us a clear signal. If you believe this is war, then give us weapons urgently. was like. Yeah, well, but nobody would give anything. And I asked, impose sanctions. That's something everybody in Europe knew about. They knew. I asked President Biden, impose sanctions on Russia now. preemptively. If you know there could be an invasion, impose sanctions. And then he won't go in if he's really decided to. But President Biden said, we'll impose sanctions if there's an invasion. Post factum, not preemptive sanctions, but post factum. I'm... not God to judge a president, but I believe that was a mistake in my view. Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022, but in October 2021... the Director of National Intelligence and CIA Director, briefed US leadership and top NATO allies that Putin was making concrete plans for a multi-front invasion. And European media published satellite imagery showing 100,000 Russian troops, tanks and field hospitals that had started to emerge. And CIA Director flew to Moscow to warn Putin directly against invading in November 2021. maps and troop estimates predicting an invasion force of up to 175,000 troops to prevent Russia from using a false flag operation as a pretext. And then in late January, early February 2021, the US National Security Advisor publicly warned that an invasion could begin at any time, urging foreign citizens to evacuate Ukraine. And then on February 24th, 2022, Russia launched the focus on Kiev. Yes. Can you remember where you were? when you realise that they had crossed... multiple borders of ukraine at the same time i'm i want to if i was a fly on the wall in whatever room you were in wherever you were what would i have seen where were you How did you find out? First of all, I'd like you to know that in Belarus, The Russians were conducting drills, training. These were annual drills. That's very important, because when we talk to our partners, and they briefed, like you're saying, folks from NATO and so on, nobody fully believed it. Why? Because everybody said, They were just saber-rattling. Putin was intentionally trying to scare everyone. He wouldn't launch an invasion. What I just told you, European leaders called him. He said, I won't invade. He had exercises in Belarus, military exercises. On top of that, our defense minister was invited there. to these exercises, and he was there. just so you understand. Imagine that he went there, came back, and so on. And then the full scale invasion started from multiple directions. And What the Europeans said, echoing my messages, was impose sanctions and give weapons to the Ukrainians. If you know an invasion is coming, the Americans didn't do that. They didn't give them and didn't impose sanctions. And that's why everyone had doubts. Everyone thought the Russians were just bluffing. Why? Because he wanted to push us. into the Minsk agreements and so on, so that we'd give them Donbass and recognize Donbass as not Ukraine and also recognize Crimea as not Ukraine. That's what, in other words, that was the format of pressure. but What happened happened. What did you believe? I didn't think there would be a full-scale invasion. and so on. So that we give them Donbass and recognize as not Ukraine and also recognize Crimea as not Ukraine. That's what, in other words, that was the format of pressure. But what happened, happened. I didn't think there would be a full-scale invasion. I didn't think [45:00] So because I believe that if people know there's going to be a full scale invasion. partners and so on, and they don't take preemptive steps. Don't sit him down at the table. Don't tell him, are you out of your mind? Have you lost your mind to wage war in the 20th century to kill people? You're completely unhinged. But even so, a full scale invasion happened and And they approached Kyiv very quickly. Like, really quickly. I mean, it was just, it was, well, an avalanche. And I was... I was with my family. N. I was with my family, I got a call from the office, saying that before that, during the night missiles. or flying missiles, I got ready, told my wife, told the kids, told them the war has started. And I went to the office. I arrived at the office. I was the first or second the second person i think in the office and i called everyone in and we started Uh... uh Started the workday. Such a terrible... Workday. the first one during the full-scale war. What did your wife say? Thank you. I don't remember. It was very fast. Everything happened so fast. I told my wife, wake up quickly, the war has started. I love you, I'll call you, and... Ran out. And life has not been the same since. Absolutely. It's just a different life. Everything is different. Everything's different. 100%. When I was doing my research on that day when Russia invaded, what I couldn't believe is just the volume of troops that rolled across the border. I read one thing that said there was 65 kilometers of armored vehicles and troops on one particular road as they tried to take Kiev. I want to talk about that, but I really want to also get an answer to this sort of outstanding question in my head, begun. It never would have happened if he was president. Do you believe that? Oh. uh, *sigh* I think that nobody knows the answer, honestly. Um, The fact that Remains that this happened during Biden's presidency. That's a fact. It's a fact that this didn't happen under... Trump. a fact. But it's... also a fact that putin chose the moment for A full occupation, that's also a fact. Thank you. I think Trump had a special relationship with Putin. and still does And. Maybe. it really is possible that Um... Trump being on friendly terms with Putin could have prevented a full-scale invasion. But, One thing you have to know for sure... Neither I nor Trump, we're not eternal in these presidential seats. And so either way... Trump's presidency would have ended and Putin still wouldn't have been able to change his main goal. the occupation of Ukraine. So I think that Honestly, it doesn't matter who the president is. As long as, Putin is there. on February the 24th when Russia invaded Ukraine, it is reported that they sent, there's different numbers, but some of the numbers go up to 200,000 troops that were assembled across the Ukrainian border. It varies between 150,000, 190,000. And when I look at the total active number of troops in Ukraine at the time, it's almost the same number. So it's almost as if Russia deployed... the full size of the the number of active duty personnel you had into ukraine to attack ukraine and specifically to take kiev can you can you just explain to me in simple terms how they staged that attack you said that some troops came in from belarus there was uh support that came in trying to take kiev as well i think uh they knew that our main forces uh our main forces were in the East of our country, Donetsk and Luhansk regions. Yes, Donetsk Luhansk region. Why were Donetsk Luhansk regions where our main units were? Look. [50:00] There is Kharkiv, which was also their target. Look, this whole, all this all this whole part Mariupol, which was very important to them, Donetsk, which was already occupied and so on. So what was the bottom line? Because when part of it was occupied, when Donetsk was occupied, look, all of that was after the occupational crime. All of this was occupied, this entire part. Very strong troops were stationed here. Strong both in terms of numbers and strength and the separatists and they were fighting against us. Meaning you have to understand these are people who consider the Netsk their homeland. These aren't just Russians. These are separatists. So there were both separatists and Russians here. So this was their strongest grouping. And our strongest grouping was stationed right here. And that was constantly, they were here, they were stationed right here. Why were they stationed here? Because they were holding back the strongest Russian grouping so it wouldn't break through. And Nobody expected that they would go through Belarus and advance on the capital. And that's why. We didn't have any strong troops here. That is an absolute fact. We simply didn't have that kind of army. The entire Ukrainian army was, well, excuse me, it was later I changed the law to make it 200,000 plus up to 250. But before that, it was an even smaller force. And just imagine 200,000 people are coming at you. Well, it's simply impossible to defend. You need an army like the one we have today, 800,000, which was actually the main problem for the Russian troops when they couldn't take our capital. We held out and destroyed them. The... Couldn't. They didn't have enough troops. to hold the occupied territories here. And they had to. Pull back. We were hitting them and they were pulling back. And that's how we fully took back Kyiv region, Chernihiv region, and that whole front. We completely restored it and pushed them out entirely. So, It's completely obvious they just didn't have enough troops. Just like at first when they pushed in, we didn't have a strong army here. We didn't have enough troops. And later the same happened to them. Naturally, when the full-scale invasion started, there was mobilization and people... There were lines, people showed up as volunteers and our army grew from 200,000 to an army of 800,000. While the Russian presence was around, by the way, the Russian presence was around 700, probably at that moment around 700,000 across all directions on Ukrainian territory. meaning this was a massive onslaught coming in, a massive onslaught. There's, in late February, satellite imagery captured a massive 64 kilometer, which is 40 mile long Russian military convoy. Yeah, it was terrifying footage of that. backed up along a single highway leading to Kiev. And when you see 64 kilometres of military vehicles and armoured vehicles heading to one city, and then you hear that they failed to take that city, the question is like, How? How? Um... They captured, by the way, the Chernobyl nuclear plant where the disaster happened. All of that was occupied. That whole route was occupied. they occupied it and blockaded Kyiv. How Did we... People stepped up. people went to mobilize yes a huge number on the first day we we Left-to-head. left the country. headed toward western Ukraine, the western part of our country, they left. But a lot of people stayed. mobilized and we brought up our troops and started fighting them. Day after day, we pushed back harder. They cut off our food, cut off our water. Cut everything off completely. So that was their... That was their mission. They expected people to to run and, me. And certain people came to me and they said, Kiev is cut off. And Kiev is surrounded and the Russians are suggesting you hand over your powers and that's it, meaning Kiev must surrender. uh, Naturally, I told those people where to go. Let's put it that way. [55:00] out of my office. And then as you know leaders were calling, offering to evacuate. before all the roads were blocked. uh to get out of kiev who called you and asked you if you wanted to be evacuated and did they make you an offer to evacuate you themselves why didn't Joe Biden asked you if you wanted to be evacuated? He was the first. The first. What did he say? We are ready to help you evacuate because naturally, well, the invasion, Kiev is surrounded and we are ready to help you, you and your family. Likewise, many Europeans offered me that later Several Europeans did And people around me as well, let's say people around me. from our political circle also. suggested yeah doing all that. What did you say to Biden? I need ammunition. Not a ride? Did you tell your wife and your family to leave? Thank you. Um... uh Thank you. They all... Nobody could go anywhere because that was a choice that was... the families and there's... And naturally, they weren't in the office with me or the security detail took them and they went to another location. Yeah. Well, because it was clear that there was just shoot, there was shooting right around the president's office and it was obvious how this could all end. And they asked me to go down to the bunker. Down there, I had... It was... very deep underground built right inside my office. And in that bunker, I started working. That's where Biden called me. All around my office was secured by snipers, various guys of ours, special services. And I was in the bunker. Down there, I had... communications and I spoke with all the leaders from there. That's where I first did a video call with the Europeans pleading with them to unite, help Ukraine not abandon us. And it worked. Yeah. And I continued being there, going out into the street, talking to the people, showing myself, because there were so many in those first few days, there were so, so many narratives. Russia was putting out a lot of information claiming I had fled. So basically, their whole idea was for people to run and people would run if they saw that their leader abandoned them. Well, I mean, excuse me, if the leader abandoned the capital, well, then everyone has to. survive on their own. So that was the whole story. They wanted me to run And for them, that was... Yeah, obviously that was their goal. I couldn't abandon Keeve. the office, The people. It's just impossible. That would be betrayal. betrayal of my human decency and the constitution of Ukraine. So, I couldn't, uh do that well and and that's it that's it and then and they put the russians constantly pushed information that i wasn't there then that i was spotted at the border then that i was seen somewhere else then in other countries and all of that forced me to go out into the street all the time two three times a day i made a decision to constantly communicate constantly say something hadn't run away. That was important for the military too. Later on with time, the military told me that it meant a lot to them. They stood strong, fought, defended, and liberated Kyiv because they believed they were liberating their capital, their home, and their president, meaning that he didn't abandon us, that he stayed with us. That's what they said. Well, Thank you. It was my duty. I don't see it as some kind of... very special choice of mine. I believe that this was the only way I could act. Thank you. Were you scared? Because if you have a nuclear power, one of the biggest militaries in the world, that have 64 miles of military equipment heading towards where you are, And you have them invading also by air. firing missiles into the cities that you're in and your family are in. You've made [60:00] the decision you're going to stay. Were you scared? Mmm. Scared? It's a different feeling. It's not about fear. It's about being... being laser focused on what needs to be done right now. We were working at such speed. I can't even tell you. I was just running around the office. I was running, making decisions, calling leaders. I just had no breaks. I had, I don't know, dozens of calls with leaders every single day, every hour, every second. I'd run outside, come back, talk to the military, come back. So I just didn't have time for that. I only realized it all about. 20 days. into the war. I just realized that something happened. something terrible and And the speed, you know, when the speed slightly... slightly began to shift, you started to realize, my God, Well, this is war. This is, and it's without a doubt, a horrible war. Yeah, but at first I was just working. Honestly, I have this trait. I don't even think it's just Me, people have this trait to pull yourself together when, you know, shock. People around you are in shock and you see it in their eyes. You see that they, you know, well, they're in shock and you realize that you need to act right now. Just act. Act every second. Draw. conclusions, Kiev is blockaded, open it up, tell the military, open the road, we need food to get in, water and so on. That's what crisis management is. And in tough situations, basically, that's usually how I act in tough situations. And it's not like I'm, again, the bravest person, it's just when this kind of thing hits, I see people around me falling apart, you know, falling apart. Well, because it's a terrible war, I pull myself together completely. And only later... relate once you've relaxed You realized that a terrible tragedy occurred. A war and... End. It's just immense grief. Pretty much like that. When did things slow down enough for you to realise the severity and the impact of the tragedy that had taken place in the lives that were lost? Was there a particular moment? The first few days, I didn't... Sleep at all? The first few days we just worked, I was sleeping about 15 minutes. Sleeping 15 minutes because my entire job was... Communication. I was talking in circles with every leader, deliver this over there, do that there. We set up flawless logistics for weapons. We were able, I was talking at night with Poland, with Andrzej Duda. There was a warehouse there. We were waking leaders up, meaning in the middle of the night. So it was, well, it's improper to say this today. You shouldn't treat people like that. But that's how it was. And about... 20 days later, into the war. Everything started coming together into some steps that needed to be taken into some kind of. well like the realization that Well, A war had begun. war, tragedy, and we have to move forward. And well, that's about how it was. At first it was Crisis management. Unblock. bring back troops, break the siege of Kyiv, strike back at them. And definitely the most crucial things were Communications. Food. water, the population so many cities were cut off. It wasn't just the banking system, cards, making sure cards worked. I mean, we're a pretty digitalized country. So a lot of things were done. A lot of things were done in those first weeks. we were faster than the Russians. They broke through quickly toward Kyiv. And once we stopped them at Kyiv, We became much faster in the information space and so on. We shattered their whole wave of disinformation and just broke them down step by step, step by step. Until uh, they realize that They lost the capital to us. and And then it became clear that we had to push harder. Our partners helped. Our partners realized that [65:00] We wouldn't give up. And they started helping. That was definitely it. I remember how it happened. It is often said that Vladimir Putin believed he would be able to take Kiev and Ukraine in just a number of days and actually captured Russian assault units carried only three to 10 days of combat rations alongside formal dress uniforms meant for a victory parade, while state media accidentally released a pre-scheduled victory declaration on day three although putin never never publicly uttered the phrase three days will said a sort of time frame himself there are top russian state media figures who openly bragged that the conquest would take only a few days what is it that they miss underestimated about ukraine that's right exactly what you started with today, that Ukraine is not Russia. That's his problem, refusing to recognize a separate nation, refusing to recognize a separate country. That's what did him in. He still doesn't understand that he looks at Ukraine as Russia, as part of Russia, that I'll march in with an army, we have hundreds of thousands of men he slam his fist on the table the president will run away people will hide and the Ukrainian flag will be swapped for the Russian flag And that it Three days We showed a military operation that was supposed to take three days That how it is When our guys hit their tanks and stuff, we found parade uniforms. It's true. They found parade uniforms in their various military vehicles. They were literally marching to a parade. They specifically wanted to capture kiev in three days and symbolically hold some well some kind of uh regular spectacle uh of pseudo victory on krasatik on independent square well i mean that's the most important thing he still doesn't understand and doesn't want to admit that this is a different nation a different people just 12 hours ago trump weighed in on what he believed happened with kiev and why Vladimir Putin wasn't able to take Kiev. This is what he said. I'll throw it up on the screen for the listeners. But then it was supposed to be a very quick war. And if you remember, the tanks going up the highway right into Kiev had the general, who was obviously not a very good general, not made a right turn into farmland, which was soaked and soaking wet from the heaviest rain in 10 years they say He went right up into the mud and it was like quicksand and those tanks So they got I guess I don know if you call it lucky or not lucky, frankly, because it's been five years and Ukraine has lost a tremendous, you know, Ukraine has lost so many of its men. Number one, had they not taken the right turn onto dirt instead of going up a concrete highway, it would have ended in one day. So Trump says that it was a Russian mistake taking a wrong turn that stopped this war being over in a day no they surrounded kiev they they reached kiev they occupied towns on the way to kiev uh some they didn't occupy towns fought back they bypassed them no if someone took a wrong turn i don't know what president trump is talking about it's in overall it doesn't matter with all the armor they lost near kiev hostimal and so on In other words, dozens, hundreds of armored vehicles burned. They just trapped us and then we started hammering them and they didn't know what to do about it because some of their armor breached into Kyiv, right into the capital. Armored vehicles drove through the streets and people burned it all down They were especially shocked when they drove toward the capital and people were just throwing burning debris I mean people were setting their armor on fire. It wasn't a matter of some general being an idiot. I believe the one who gave the order just didn't fully realize what was happening, didn't really get what it would take. And that's the main point. They needed around thousands, thousands, I think three to four hundred thousand to take Kiev. They needed twice as many men. Why? Because taking Kiev, what does taking Kiev mean? When you've taken those towns on the way to Kiev, you have to leave troops behind to hold those towns. And that takes a huge number of people. It's a pretty large territory. And you can avoid leaving many troops there only if there's no resistance. But if the people inside offer resistance, then you need an army to hold every town. That was their mistake. They didn't estimate, right? Didn't estimate. They didn't even realize there would be resistance. That's it. That was their mistake. [70:00] her main mistake. Thank you. Oh. And then that's it. That's all. For example, If you take that operation back in 2014, when they went in and seized uh, Crimea. Then pardon me in Crimea. There are 3 million people. And Kyiv had 3 million people. Dozens of people... Entered. Crimea. at most hundreds. and here hundreds of thousands. It's not... about the operation. The difference is people defended it, stood up and fought. And the difference is no one fought back. Which is why I said when dozens of people showed up here, where Trump is right. is that if Crimea hadn't been allowed to fall, there would be no war. On this, I agree with President Trump. Not because I'm blaming anyone, no. It's just that dozens of people went into Crimea, dozens. For a country like this, that's zero, that's nothing. We handled hundreds of thousands. Here's what happened. And if they'd been smacked in the head back then, the Russians, those people wearing uniforms, meaning the Russians would have even said, hey, that's, they were already saying, that's not our army. Look at the uniforms. You can't tell us the Russian army. And if they'd been hit back then, Well, it wouldn't have happened. Well, at least there wouldn't have been a chance of a full-scale war. Why? Because Putin would have known there would be A blow. there would be a response. But what was his mistake here. First of all, When he saw how Crimea was seized so easily, so easily. That's why he thought he could seize Kyiv just as easily. That was his experience. And there's quite a famous battle that took place to secure the... Anitonov Airport. Hostomel. uh hostomel antonov that's what i just told you that's a battle there's a terrible battle in hostomel a brutal battle the airport in hostomel can you explain that to me um because i watched a documentary on this a couple of months ago and it feels like it was a really pivotal moment in defending kiev what were russia trying to do where is this when they land for them it was crucial to massive landing force could land and so on. So here's how a takeover works. Block Kiev, capture the airports, basically, TV towers and so forth. In other words, seize information, logistics, and cut off supplies of food, weapons, and so on. That's basically the plan. And you need There was a terrible battle in Hostomel. Our people burned them there, and they had very tough combat units. They couldn't land a large force there. They were destroyed. Hostomel was taken back. Our troops controlled it. that was one of the striking battles a terrible battle one of the most striking battles so we did everything possible not to let them capture us and seize our logistics they they flew in with paratroopers so they parachuted people into that airport to try and claim it and they originally did seize the airport That's right. you And then there was an immediate counterattack. were ukrainian national guard units and special forces our national guard Thank you. you shelled and destroyed the runway yourself. You destroyed your own runway while air defense units' forces shot down several Russian transport helicopters. And from what I understood, you know, you took the air port back they fought you took it back that's right changed hands back and forth that's how it was And if they had been able to seize that airport... How would that have changed the situation with KFG, do you think? They could, likely, they could have, they could have taken most of the capital. They could have broken through and captured it. That's true. That's true. That was an utterly heroic battle. Thank you. When you hear these stories, you realize that, the future of ukraine comes down to both heroism but also several small battles. Some big battles but also several small moments. When you reflect, [75:00] von Das war das, was er noch kleine Momente, die du denkst wirklich definiert die Zukunft der Ukraine in dieser regard? Well, just so you know, Today, Um, Places like Hostomel, then further up Moschum, and several small towns around Kyiv. There was a desperate battle for every single one of those towns. Warum die National Guard? Weil, nachdem, die vollen Armee nicht mehr erreichen konnte. Aber die National Guard waren die Internal Troops. So they were there and brought in army units and so on. But nonetheless, that's why it was an utterly heroic battle. There was Bucha. You know, right? That they occupied it. It was terrible. It was a genocide recognized by everyone. They buried hundreds of people. They tortured people. I mean, tortured them. And hundreds of people were in a mass grave. They found a grave. There were, I believe, around 500 people. Half a thousand people in the grave like that. Just imagine. Hands tied. tortured, and then buried in pits. Das ist was passiert. Seeing all this. Hab. Das war nichts wie ein Krieg. Es war definitiv pure looting. Wenn sie die Stadt auf der Weg zu Kyiv und um Kyiv. Sie just went into Homs, just killed Kyiv. took microwaves. ... some refrigerators... TV's. They acted like just a... Well, I can't even describe it. Well, they're just scavengers. Und all diese Menschen, sie haben ihre Hände, Torture them. Oh. Es war alles, was Sexual Violence. Und sie haben Menschen in der Hände gelegt, sie haben Menschen und so weiter. Liberated those towns. There emerged this kind of Such hatred for the Russians. Right at that moment. Not even at the moment when they started the full-scale war. Back then nobody understood what it really was yet. People understood what this war was and what Putin did personally when we found those mass graves. of tortured adults Children. Ich meine, sie nicht nur killen, sie... und die Kinder haben. Das ist richtig. Das ist richtig. Und dann ist das, ich meine, das ist... Imagine what they went through. Well, there's no, no... You can't even compare what all these people lived through. Why Bucha is so horrifying and why the Russians immediately started saying, it's a staged performance. We brought in journalists. The entire world press was there. They saw the bodies. Ich habe es nicht. Deliberately, when we liberated Bucha, I went there. Once I saw it, Vielen Dank. Ich sagte, bring every journalist hier. Don't touch anything, just bring the journalists. The whole world simply has to see this. und sie haben die Journalisten. Die Leute waren auf der Pavelle. Dead bodies lying everywhere. Kids, adults, elderly people, and so on. Witnesses who had stayed behind in Bucha, an old man, An elderly man, this was a very famous story there. It's one of those moments you're talking about. This elderly man, he survived the occupation of this town, the town of Bucha, during World War II. Und er sagt, die Faschisten nie... Treated people like that. Yes, they were enemies. ES occupiers, But they didn't torture people like that. Das ist absoluter Realität. Und da sind testimonien, da sind evidence, da sind criminalen Begründungen. Und wie, nach all dies, es ist schon ein lange Zeit, in der ersten Jahr der Full-Scale War. Und manchmal müssen die Menschen sich bemerkt, wenn Sie ein Mass heute finden, eine Grave, In the US or in Britain, God forbid, mit 500 tortured people. Adults, kids, dogs. Animals shot dead. I mean, they held hunting sprees there. Von Militärer Vehikeln, die Leute, die sie schütten, sie sind, sie sind, sie sind, sie sind, sie sind, sie sind, sie sind, sie sind. The whole time they were blockading Kyiv, right up until the moment we liberated it, they There were people in those villages and so on. They literally just played with people. Like slavery. Imagine that. So how after this can you listen to Putin and how after this can you forgive? Und das ist, wenn Präsident Trump gesagt, [80:00] We need to find a compromise and believe me, this, We live with this. A ceasefire. and sitting down at the negotiating table, there's a huge compromise. It is a huge compromise. Nobody can step into the shoes of all these people in the relative zoos. children were tortured nobody nobody wants to forgive them for anything Nobody wants to forgive anything and you can't force people to forgive. How can you force them? when their child was tortured. How do you forgive? Well, it's impossible. But that's why we say a ceasefire is the only step. Because... people have such hatred it it's not going away it that hatred isn't going anywhere It takes time and justice. And that's why it's a huge compromise. I've always really wanted, I've tried many times to tell the president of the United States, just understand us. This is a huge compromise. just to hold the lines where we are. that to stay Well, look, that's what it feels like. What was your hardest day? through the last four years. What's the day that, you know, will live long in your brain, your mind, your memory? you Butcha, what I just told you, that was a terrible day because I stood there. I had never seen people's bodies just scattered on the... on the street in my entire life i had simply never seen anything like that in my life and after that everything changed completely and once again everything changed in life everything has changed absolutely and what way. Well... You want... You want... Revenge. Thank you. I had never had it. where I couldn't forgive someone and by and large I think people make mistakes. This is about something else evil like that, you know? A devil like that. Just came in like that, did that to people. Like, like. Chopped meat. butchered them, you know? I mean, that's what it looks like. and you just can't fathom how that's possible and you want to find these people who aren't human you want to find them and you want to you just want to kill them. I mean, I had never wanted to kill a single human being. I had never felt anything like that. *ahem* pure revenge. Thank you. With time, you can't forget that. And in moments like this, and our conversation brings back moments like that. And you have to be president and you have to... calm down and be more, how to put it, Diplomatic. Yeah, well, you can't... Forgive, just forgive everything like that and say, Well? Sorry, that's Putin, a powerful country? Let's just forget everything. Let's forgive everything. and somehow, well, we'll buy and sell gas or diesel or whatever. That's difficult. You understand? Do you ever worry about how this experience has changed you? Because you have been irreversibly changed by this. I can tell both from meeting you, looking at how you used to be three, four, five years ago, you've been irreversibly changed. And you're a father and you're a husband and at some point this war will be over. You know, God... God willing. But do you ever think about how You're irreversibly changed. you can bring it back. It's just, it's... two different worlds. A re-evaluation of values. My only dream is... to end this war. I desperately want justice. I just really want, I know so many people had their hearts ripped out and there won't be a new heart. You have to give them at least something. So some trial, some justice, you know, at least some moral solace is an absolute must. You can't just leave it because... that hole inside them, it won't heal. And there will be revenge, like I told you. And And the revenge of so many people who lost everything, that naturally brings, uh, Risks. of some kind of ongoing military or combat actions, and so forth. So it's not that simple. It doesn't just [85:00] End like that. Why do we talk about a just peace? Some people ask, well, what is a just peace? Welp. Somehow there has to be justice. The guilty must be punished. At the very least, you have to show a path that it will happen. Maybe not right now, but that it will happen. It's just totally impossible to simply forgive. And that... And you realize that You want... to be with your kids, with your wife. Generally, you just want to end the war and get a little bit... of a life. But if... If I asked Alina, your wife... How you have changed. Thank you. On a human level, because of all of this, what might she say to me? I don't know. She'd definitely say I've changed a lot. Yeah, she tells me sometimes. Yeah, well, What is she saying? Well, you know how it is. *sigh* She focuses on different things, you know, different values. You just want. Somehow. You want to hold onto something. The. The people close to you. You really crave that warmth. You want to break through this... Ah. In a war you fight. And you're lonely. you know, In life before this war, you're definitely not lonely because you have friends, company, business, then maybe politics. But you're not lonely. I... I run a country and this is about something completely different right now. But when you hug your family, it's just like that. Well, it means there are people who love you. That matters. Did you miss them? very much. very much pointless sentimentality. Maybe that's it. Slap. That's how it is. Years have passed, you know. between this and this years, years. I miss them constantly. And it feels like that even when they're right next to me. It's just this habit. this habit of doing work and focusing exclusively on work. Even. When they're near, I miss them sometimes, meaning... Well. Thank you. Again, I don't like to complain and I'm not complaining. chose my own path. And of course, I didn't choose the war, but I chose this path. Well, This war, it fell on my head. my lifetime and on the lifetime of our generation. Yeah. Beautiful wife and beautiful kids. Your daughter is not a child anymore. Yeah, yeah. Suck that. They've all grown up in the last four years. She's a young lady now. Very much so. She really has, yeah, grown up. Yes. And all the children of Ukraine, and it's true, I've said this, the children of Ukraine grew up during the war. Totally true. They are all so grown up. And it's so sad that childhood passed during a war. Well, but nonetheless, we believe in peace. Peace will prevail anyway. 100%. And my daughter and I... are really great friends. She's grown up now. and Well, her English is better. Ha ha ha. Do you get to spend a lot of time with the kids? When there's time, I try to be with them, to call, we talk. These days, there are plenty of options. We talk online, we talk in different ways. That's how it is. Is it possible? You know, gosh, I've spent, since I was 18 years old, been running businesses. And, you know, running a startup, I thought, you know, was a challenge. But it is incomparable from, you know, and I say this because I think about how that pulled me away from the people in my life, my relationships, business, but it's just totally incomparable to think about what that must be like to try and maintain those important relationships, especially with children, when your country is being invaded and you are the leader of that country. I almost can't fathom how you can find moments of presence. with them like true presence. I understand how one might be able to like fake [90:00] for a short period of time, but true sort of intellectual presence. Is it possible? Differently, but differently now, absolutely. But yes, that presence matters. And those moments you mentioned, you've been in business since you were 18. And some I imagine of your relationships become secondary, probably, while business always consumes your whole life. Well, at least it was that way for me. And this reevaluation from this war and these images and these horrific moments definitely shows me that business is secondary. Everything is secondary. These people right here, That's Hmm. What matters most. Now, that you can't get back. These years slip away and in these intense moments, You remember. These people. It's important. you And your wife Alina has been... You'll rock through it all, I've heard you say. She's been your stability throughout all of this. All of these crazy, crazy times. Well, we support each other. That's true. We, we, I think that I have a very... Smart. wife and she is So... *sigh* Real, we have real, we have real feelings. We have love and respect. I think that's very important. to respect each other. And you know, how should I put it? People should find each other interesting. I think that's The most important thing, people need to find each other interesting. And we find each other very interesting. We feel good. I feel very good. The other very important woman in your life... Your parents are still here, but your mother, I heard she calls you almost every day. Still a single date. Every day, every single day, every day. Where does she she's living in Ukraine? Yeah, when your mother calls you, what does she say every day? What is she asking you? Her first question is, Did it? Did you actually pick up? Ha ha ha ha. She's already like that because I so often she I look, God, 12 missed calls. Mom, I'm working. I tell her 12 calls. How can you call someone so many times? And she keeps dialing. She'll call you all day long until I pick up. So we make sure to speak once a day. She asks, "How I'm feeling?" And is she worried about you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How are you? How are you feeling? How are the kids? Tell me. Right? When is Putin... going to end the war And I say, Mom, we're doing everything we can. you And as things stand at the moment, for the people don't understand what's actually going on on the ground in Ukraine, where the Russian troops currently are, what life is like on a day-to-day basis if you're a Ukrainian, can you explain to me which parts of Ukraine are currently occupied and generally what life is like for Ukrainians at the moment? Thank you. I think it's a good thing. occupied you occupied was Crimea? Then they took the Azov, That's an inland sea of ours. And that's our sea. They made it. Yes. They turned it into an inland sea. They took. Mariupo. They took Mariupol. They took Berdyansk, all of the Azov. Kerch is a city on the Black Sea. They made it so we can't get out next day olashki is where right now Uh... people and children are trapped. without food, without anything, they won't let them through. Right now we are working to unblock it. There were 2500 people. Left. Kherson, we fought to take back the major city of Kherson. We reclaimed it. Her son is split. by the Dnipro River. Our people live on one bank, the enemies on the other bank, and that's why they shell house also and Zaporizhia is also under under our control. So they took, Crimea, Donetsk region, Luhansk region. They couldn't take like, you can call it, I have, so on. This part, this part is ours. So upside, the map is just upside down. from Kharkiv here. This is what they call Luhansk [95:00] All blessed. right here. This is our Kramatorsk, like, This right here, they took Biennaki as I took Matifta. So let's go blast right here. Zaporizhia is ours. So basically, people can see that all of this is... All of this is mum. This is... roughly, Roughly, sorry, I'm not very good at drawing. All of this is roughly 18... 18 to 19. percent. of our territory. That's roughly, roughly it. Roughly, because their maps are one thing, to be honest, they sell one story to the people. people we have different maps we believe we're right well naturally they have their own their own approach to talking with society and presenting information. But roughly, that's what it is. And they're attacking via missiles and drones other parts of Ukraine constantly, right? Completely. Yes. Yes. See, they're focused on... Well, honestly, you could point everywhere here. They've already started today. Right here, they kill people in Lutsk. That's the western part of our country. Right here, a missile struck and they're hitting Kyiv. uh, Pellucci right here. We went with the British secretary, saw 23 people killed. Jitomir, is under constant shelling, Uh... Well, Rivne has fewer strikes. Lviv, This... Talk. Fewer strikes here. this part To be honest, all of this part is... far away from the line of occupation from the contact line and from the Russian Federation. So obviously the distance is great, which is why there are no massive strikes there. Yes, well, that's roughly it. What are they trying to accomplish? Adessa is being shelled. Diff Alive, or they want it. to pull out of out of the east of our country so that Putin and the east is here's what he wants. He wants basically he wants to take the city of Zaporizhia but he can't. That's a target for him. Zaporizhia and Kherson and Mikolaev, all targets. But he doesn't say that. He doesn't say it. But after all, we liberated Zaporizhia. Those cities. We liberated Kherson. And. But have you heard directly from them as to what their demands are, what they say that they want to stop... Launching missiles. Yes. They basically say... right here. this entire piece. They want to take pretty much the east of Ukraine. Yes, the east. That means they want Sloviansk. Well, these are key. Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, Drushkivka, and that leads right out into the Dnipropetrovsk region, into Kramatorsk. Pavlohrad, Dnipropetrovsk, these are the most, Krivi Riech is my hometown. Nikopol is an industrial hub, an engineering hub, a manufacturing hub. It's the economy, of our country. And so it's very dangerous because if you surrender this part to them, and this is heavily reinforced defense of our nation right here. like this. And if we hand these cities of ours over to them, then the risk is huge. If he wants to keep going, he could seize everything. a huge Number. of our cities if he pushes further. The risk is real. Nobody guarantees anything. You understand? Everyone talks about security guarantees and we're open. We're completely open to that. We say, "Well, okay, security guarantees. Let's do NATO." Well, NATO, you know, the Russians, well, again, they keep sending signals to the Russians. Because, You have to give security guarantees. On top of that, like I told you, the biggest compromise with so many dead, the biggest compromise we're already making is a ceasefire. Let's just stop this war. But they want us to pull out even further. And if we pull out, where are the security guarantees? Aside from the fact that it's unfair. you talked about the barbaric nature of how they've treated people. Ukrainians, are you at all concerned that they might escalate to using more... horrific weapons like nuclear weapons at any point. Has that ever crossed your mind? Well, it crosses everyone's mind after what they've done that they might Do something worse. But... As of today, Well, I don't think they'll take the risk. of using nuclear weapons, because then I think they won't definitely, I'm sure they won't have any allies left. [100:00] including countries like America, China, China, Well, excuse me, but that's far too dangerous even for nuclear powers. That means if one country can do it, then if there's a conflict somewhere else on another continent in another theater, I don't know, the Middle East, whatever. That means if a nuclear weapon is used once, it might be used a second and a third time. So I don't think Putin will risk nuclear weapons. Then again, we're dealing with Look, we're dealing with with a man and with a system that until the end of his days. will hold on to him and he to it. Because only when his life ends, will he leave the Kremlin and hand over, well, physically hand over, naturally transfer power? I'm... more than certain of that. Regarding the current situation this week with Trump, with Russia, and this deal that's been done, from my understanding, because... There's an energy crisis globally. Trump has now done a deal with Russia for diesel. He then asked you not to attack any energy infrastructure in Russia. There's a video that I actually have here of him describing this, which a lot of people have now seen. I'll play it. Well, I look at it differently. Zelensky could have settled this war many times. He chooses not to. very difficult. It's a war that should have never been started. If I were president, if the election weren't rigged, I would have been president. And that war would have never started. we said you can do whatever you want to russia don't hit the refineries because that's a world Problem that's caused. And he wants to make problems for the world. He wants to make problems for our farmers, our ranchers. with diesel fuel because Russia supplies a large portion of the diesel fuel throughout the world. And we told them, do whatever you want, but don't hit the diesel fuel because there's a big crop and what does he do? He goes and hits the diesel fuel. Do what you want, don't hit refineries. There's plenty of target. And he went out and he's not going to affect our farmers. And he's not going to affect our ranchers. And he's not going to affect the rest of the world. So he's better damn well stopped. And in that, he says that he thinks the Ukraine needs a new president. Now, first of all, diesel exports have no impact. The volume of diesel exports is so negligible from Russia that it has zero impact on prices in the United States of America. That is totally false information. That's first. Second, It makes no sense for us to strike Russia's energy infrastructure. We retaliate because they strike our energy infrastructure. We've spoken a lot about this. The Russians hit our energy grid. Our people live without power. We don't have... Oil, gas, diesel, and so on. That hurts them. What hurts us is electricity. They hit our electricity. We strike back at their diesel. They make money on diesel and spend it on weapons. My offer, Excuse me, but I don't need this. I've always told President Trump, broker an energy ceasefire, at least on energy. At least let's give people light. And good for the Russians. They'll sell their oil if they want to, if that's what you need. But President Trump can't reach an agreement with Putin on this. Putin refuses him an energy ceasefire. And so the president, decided to pin this problem not on Putin but on me. explaining to his people that because of this, Diesel. prices in America are going up. That is completely untrue. And I don't understand. I have a good relationship with him, with Trump. And I think it's wrong and unacceptable that he pins Russia's aggression and Russia's killings on me. He is shifting. the context and that's not fair and that's why i honestly said that's unfair ceasefire he says It's not what they can't work it out. Well, if you can't work it out, but you need diesel, Though, again, I think this is just deflecting the focus away from Iran, from what's happening in the Middle East. The entire volume is blocked over there. That's exactly where nothing is working out. The energy, the Strait of Hormuz is blocked. That's the root of the problem. everything gets shifted onto us and I made the target as the leader of our country. So I said, okay, You can't force Putin. to stop the war and make an energy truce, Give me Air Defense. Missiles. I won't fire at anyone. I'll protect our energy sector. So where am I being unfair? In what way? I asked him, give us missiles, not for free. Again. Not even for free. [105:00] Europeans are funding this, funding all of it. There's an agreement. But they won't give them to us. They say we can't. They give and have given everything to the Middle East. Look, it's just kind of, well, it's just like, like, But it's unfair. to the Middle East, Patriot missiles. with Putin, a diesel deal. I'm expected not to respond to an energy attack inside Ukraine. And diesel prices are rising in America because of... But it's unfair. And you need a different president. Well, Diesel prices, I guarantee you 100%. Diesel prices don't depend on the volume that Russia. South. They just don't. And about 76% of Ukrainians say they wouldn't want an election now, according to some recent surveys as well. My last question to you, Mr. President, is... Is there a realistic path to the end of this war? And what does that look like? A realistic path. Trump can... Bring Putin. to the negotiating table very easily. Because he needs to the way he talks about me. President Trump. He needs to adopt that kind of rhetoric about Putin. Why do you think he's not... I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. He's got sanctions on his desk. It wasn't him voting. Congress voted for strong sanctions. He can do it. I don't know why. Maybe they have a special relationship. Maybe something else. I can't tell you. I don't know everything. I can only guess some economic deals and so on. An old rely. I don't know. I don't want to. The midterms are coming up and I think he might be a little bit concerned about energy prices in America more so than. Maybe Ukraine. *sigh* Yeah, well, look... Diesel prices, I give you a 100%. Diesel prices don't depend on the volume russia sells they don't americans Export energy resources. Americans' energy exports aren't banned. for Americans. American companies export, It's interesting, why do American companies export energy? Well, because how can the President of the United States ban private sector exports? Well, I don't think you can. And why would he? It sells? And money comes in. Well, just, well, you know how... Thank you. Life, time, you know, all secrets, all mysteries always come to light. It just takes time. Time is definitely on the side of those, Who? are open, and ready for honest dialogue and fight. Yes, which means time will be... on our side. What are your last words to our audience? I hope that it's not last words. Last words for today. I hope that I have some time in my life. Last words today. Half of our audience are in America. I wish... America, which finds itself in a very tough situation, I believe because the world... Has gone crazy. What's happening with the Russians. With Iran. The fact that people want blood. People want wars. I wish America. would stay a great nation, be strong, be peaceful, have the chance, someone works, someone wants to be home with the kids, pray, have a family dinner. I wish America tranquility peace and we're grateful for everything america has done for ukraine we won't forget this President, thank you so much. Thank you so much. I know you've had a really rough week and it's been very tough. So I really appreciate you taking the time. I've had everything going on with Starlink and the internet and all the challenges. Thank you so much. And we really do wish you the best. We really wish you the best. Yes. And I was happy to hear to see you and to have a dialogue. We had good dialogue. I think I think we spoke very good. So thanks so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out. you, you might love it.

President Zelenskyy: Peace Is A Huge Compromise, The Horrific Atrocities Of Russian War Crimes!

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Detailed notes

[02:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=127s) "How Are You Doing?": Surviving with Optimism and Hope

[03:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=225s) The Horror of Missile Strikes on Children and Families

[06:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=375s) "I Don't Sleep": Nightly Military Duty and the Agony of Bereaved Parents

[09:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=593s) What Keeps Him Going: Setting an Example for His Children

[11:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=684s) Growing Up in Soviet Ukraine and Values from Kryvyi Rih

[13:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=818s) From Law School to Writing, Comedy, and Television

[15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=900s) From Voicing Paddington Bear to Starring in *Servant of the People*

[17:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1041s) Why Zelenskyy Left Entertainment for Politics

[20:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1224s) When Did the Russia-Ukraine War Really Begin?

[22:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1335s) Family History in World War II and the "Nazi" Disinformation

[25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1500s) The Nature of Empires and the Collapse of the Fish Tank

[27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1650s) Putin’s Soviet Nostalgia and Ukraine as the "Forge of Talent"

[30:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1830s) The Chechnya Blueprint and the Weaponization of Language

[32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=1920s) Refuting Putin's Revisionist History with Kyivan Rus

[35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2100s) Soviet Nostalgia and the Launch of the Full-Scale Invasion

[40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2400s) Western Warnings, Preemptive Sanctions, and the Intelligence Disconnect

[45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2700s) The Morning the World Changed: “Wake Up Quickly, the War Has Started”

[46:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2808s) Would the War Have Happened Under Trump?

[48:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=2933s) Russian Troop Numbers and the Drive on Kyiv

[50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3000s) The Defense Imbalance and the 40-Mile Russian Convoy

[55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3300s) Refusing Evacuation: "I Need Ammunition"

[01:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3600s) Crisis Mode, Fifteen-Minute Sleep, and Realization of War

[01:05:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=3907s) Russia's Big Mistake: Parade Uniforms and the Three-Day Illusion

[01:07:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4035s) Debunking Donald Trump’s "Mud and Wrong Turn" Theory

[01:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4200s) The Lesson of Crimea 2014: Why Putin Expected No Fight

[01:12:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4347s) The Pivotal Battle for Antonov Airport in Hostomel

[01:15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4500s) The Battle for the Towns Around Kyiv and the Horrors of Bucha

[01:19:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4790s) Why a Ceasefire and Negotiations Are a "Huge Compromise"

[01:21:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=4868s) The Hardest Day: Standing in Bucha and Feeling Pure Revenge

[01:23:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5023s) Irreversible Change, the Meaning of "Just Peace," and Loneliness in Leadership

[01:27:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5238s) Fatherhood, Stolen Childhoods, and Staying Connected

[01:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5400s) Realizing What Matters: Family and Marriage Under Wartime Strain

[01:32:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5530s) Daily Check-ins: Twelve Missed Calls from His Mother

[01:33:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5586s) The Frontline Map: 18 to 19 Percent Under Occupation

[01:35:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5759s) Nationwide Missile Strikes and Strategic Targets

[01:37:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5822s) What Putin Demands and the Peril of Concessions

[01:39:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=5964s) Assessing the Risk of Russian Nuclear Escalation

[01:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6000s) Nuclear Deterrence, Russian Power, and Trump's Diesel Accusations

[01:45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6300s) Air Defense Inequities and the Path to Ending the War

[01:48:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=6489s) Final Message to America and Reflections on Global Turmoil

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[15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x9dkYIRb58&t=900s) From Voicing Paddington Bear to Starring in Servant of the People