Alpha School Condenses Academics to Two Hours, Guarantees $1M Ventures
a16z
Because AI automates foundational curriculum ten times faster than standard classrooms, schools must replace passive lectures with collaborative project building to prepare students for an automated workforce.
Alpha School utilizes an AI learning engine to compress foundational academic instruction into two hours daily, freeing four to five hours for collaborative life skills, entrepreneurship, and leadership workshops. (0:00)
Alpha's Founder School offers a full tuition-back guarantee if enrolled high school students do not launch a business that generates $1 million in profit before graduation. (48:31)
To keep students in optimal cognitive flow and prevent disengagement, Alpha's learning engine calibrates difficulty to sustain an 80% to 85% accuracy rate, noting that engagement collapses when success rates fall below two-thirds. (10:40)
In a summer poll of over 70 elite interns from MIT, Stanford, and UT Austin, only one student believed their university was adequately preparing them for the AI-altered post-graduation workforce. (15:14)
Detailed notes
## Background
Published by a16z on YouTube on October 27, 2026, this episode features host Erik Torenberg, Horowitz Andreessen Academy co-founder Gagan Biyani, and Alpha School principal Joe Liemandt. The discussion explores how AI can accelerate core academics to just two hours a day, freeing students to master real-world skills like agency, teamwork, and entrepreneurship across K–12 and higher education.
## TL;DR
Joe Liemandt outlines the educational framework of Alpha School, where an AI-driven learning engine compresses traditional foundational academics into a two-hour morning block so students can spend the afternoon engaged in real-world collaborative projects and life skills. Alongside Gagan Biyani, who is applying complementary principles to college-age students at Horowitz Andreessen Academy, the conversation critiques the passive lecture model of legacy universities and highlights the pervasive career anxieties of current students facing an AI-driven workforce. Liemandt explains Alpha's expansion across 50 campuses, the psychology of setting high expectations through an 80–85% challenge sweet spot, and programs like Founder School that challenge teenagers to build real profitable ventures. Ultimately, both leaders argue that modern schooling must shift from defensive credentialism to an offensive builder mindset centered on raising student ambition.
## Atmosphere & style
The discussion carries an energetic, pragmatic, and highly optimistic tone, blending the cadence of Silicon Valley startup strategy with passionate educational reform. Liemandt speaks with rapid-fire entrepreneurial conviction, drawing on candid personal anecdotes—such as his father calling him a moron after dropping out of Stanford—to illustrate the transformative power of self-directed agency. The rapport between Torenberg, Biyani, and Liemandt feels collaborative and urgent, exchanging a mix of sharp institutional critiques and palpable excitement for a future where young learners operate as empowered, capable builders.
## Bulletin
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=0s) Alpha School utilizes an AI learning engine to compress foundational academic instruction into two hours daily, freeing four to five hours for collaborative life skills, entrepreneurship, and leadership workshops.
- [48:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2911s) Alpha's Founder School offers a full tuition-back guarantee if enrolled high school students do not launch a business that generates $1 million in profit before graduation.
- [10:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=640s) To keep students in optimal cognitive flow and prevent disengagement, Alpha's learning engine calibrates difficulty to sustain an 80% to 85% accuracy rate, noting that engagement collapses when success rates fall below two-thirds.
- [15:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=914s) In a summer poll of over 70 elite interns from MIT, Stanford, and UT Austin, only one student believed their university was adequately preparing them for the AI-altered post-graduation workforce.
## Key takeaways
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=0s) Accelerated AI learning engines compress standard K-12 academic curricula into two hours per day while consistently placing students in the top 1% on standardized tests.
- [06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=370s) High standards and collaborative, challenging projects drive genuine student motivation far more effectively than gamified entertainment or unstructured leisure.
- [08:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=532s) Alpha quantifies life skills by using AI audio analysis to monitor escape room challenges, requiring an 85% team-oriented dialogue score to pass.
- [10:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=640s) Adaptive learning systems must maintain an 80% to 85% accuracy rate, mirroring video game mechanics where drops below 66% trigger immediate frustration and abandonment.
- [13:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=787s) Higher education institutions suffer from administrative bloat and political infighting, leaving university leadership focused primarily on adult stakeholders rather than student development.
- [15:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=914s) Top-tier college interns report immense anxiety over AI eliminating entry-level jobs, thriving only when challenged with intense, applied technical projects instead of passive lectures.
- [17:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1077s) Foundational lecture halls at top universities have seen attendance plummet to under 10%, indicating that students find traditional curriculum delivery obsolete while still valuing the peer network.
- [22:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1364s) The current shift toward AI-native education parallels the 1910 high school movement, where 130,000 towns self-taxed to build high schools after tractors displaced agricultural field labor.
- [27:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1635s) Alternative education models face an adoption curve where early-stage 'magnet marketing' must intentionally filter for high-conviction families before mainstream adoption accelerates.
- [38:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2331s) Employers increasingly prioritize maturity, adaptability, and systems thinking over GPAs and technical skills that AI commoditizes.
- [42:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2532s) Students are often positioned to design more effective AI-assisted educational software than commercial publishers, as demonstrated by peer-built curricula achieving perfect AP exam pass rates.
- [45:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2706s) Approaching education defensively to avoid AI displacement is a flawed strategy; students must adopt an offensive, optimistic builder mindset across their chosen fields.
- [51:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3064s) Direct exposure to industry leaders demystifies success, teaching young builders that prominent figures face similar uncertainties and are accessible human beings.
- [54:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3268s) As noted by Tyler Cowen, the primary responsibility of an educator is raising a student's personal ambition rather than merely delivering static course material.
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=0s) The 2-Hour Learning Engine and Alpha’s Core Commitments
The conventional structure of K-12 schooling—placing a single instructor in front of a classroom—has remained largely unaltered for over a century. By synthesizing decades of cognitive science and learning science with large language models, Alpha School constructed a learning engine capable of teaching foundational academics ten times faster. When core subjects can be mastered in a fraction of the historical timeline, the fundamental operational question for educators shifts: what should the remainder of the school day look like?
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Alpha School Daily Structure and Commitments
accDescr: Diagram illustrating the two-hour academic morning followed by afternoon life skill development.
subgraph Morning ["Morning: Accelerated Academics (2 Hours)"]
AI["AI Learning Engine + Cognitive Science"]
Academics["Twice as Much Academic Progress<br/>(Top 1% Standardized Test Scores)"]
AI --> Academics
end
subgraph Afternoon ["Afternoon: Master Life Skills (4-5 Hours)"]
Projects["Collaborative Group Projects Led by Adults"]
Skills1["Leadership & Teamwork"]
Skills2["Entrepreneurship & Financial Literacy"]
Skills3["Socialization & Relationship Building"]
Skills4["Storytelling & Public Speaking"]
Skills5["Grit & Hard Work"]
Alpha organizes its educational program around three specific commitments to students and families:
1. **Loving School**: Over 90% of Alpha students report loving school on internal surveys, while 50% state they would rather attend school than go on vacation (reaching 65% at one specific campus).
2. **Accelerated Academics**: Students spend only two hours each day on core academics, yet learn twice as much as they would during six hours of conventional seat time plus homework. Compounding this rate of progress regularly elevates students to the top 1% on standardized tests.
3. **Mastering High-Impact Life Skills**: Because parents need a full-day care environment and sending children home after two hours is not viable, Alpha dedicates the remaining four to five hours of the six-to-seven-hour school day to real-world competencies.
Alpha categorizes these essential afternoon life skills into five pillars: leadership and teamwork, entrepreneurship and financial literacy, socialization and relationship building, storytelling and public speaking, and grit and hard work. Students tackle these competencies through peer projects guided by adult leads.
Joe Liemandt emphasizes that this structural reassessment will eventually become unavoidable across all tiers of education:
> “I believe now every school—and it doesn't matter, K-12, university—has to say: if the traditional way and the traditional curriculum is now 10 times faster, what do you do with the rest of the day?”
---
[04:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=287s) Productizing Education and Scaling Quality
Gagan Biyani notes that while learning science concepts have existed for decades, Alpha's primary breakthrough is establishing believable proof points showing that an accelerated academic model works at scale. Liemandt explains that when he stepped into the role of principal four years ago, he approached school design through the lens of product development and entrepreneurship. The historical roadblock for alternative school models has been the difficulty of scaling without degrading quality.
Alpha leverages artificial intelligence to scale instructional quality predictably. Under the operating philosophy that "we get better as we get bigger," the network has expanded from its initial location in Austin, Texas, by adding 12 campuses in a single year to reaching 50 campuses. Standardized test scores, customer satisfaction, student sentiment, and workshop rigor have systematically improved across the network as the operational data and system size have expanded.
---
[06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=370s) High Standards as the Engine of Student Motivation
Educational technology has historically produced underwhelming results in primary and secondary classrooms because institutions attempt to paste digital software onto an unchanged century-old schedule. When educators ask Liemandt how to adopt Alpha's model, he asks them a singular prerequisite question:
> “Are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation?”
Skeptics frequently assume that creating a school environment students prefer over vacation implies turning school into an undisciplined entertainment center full of video games and television. Liemandt rejects this view, arguing that true student motivation arises from tackling genuine difficulty in a collaborative social setting.
> “The key to your child's happiness is high standards. Kids want to go do hard things, right? They love to do hard things and they love to do hard things with their friends.”
Liemandt points out that traditional classrooms routinely foster an "anti-pattern" of teamwork. Traditional group assignments usually devolve into one student doing all the labor while everyone else sits idle, leaving kids with no functional framework for collaboration outside of after-school sports. As evidence of this systemic failure, Liemandt cites the Wharton MBA Mount Everest simulation challenge, where roughly 50% of adult business students fail the teamwork exercise because they were never explicitly taught how to cooperate throughout their prior academic careers. Rather than waiting for graduate school to introduce collaborative dynamics, Alpha begins training students in collective problem-solving as early as the third grade.
[08:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=532s) The Escape Room Challenge and the 85% Teamwork Threshold
To teach genuine collaboration rather than theoretical teamwork, Alpha School mics up students and places them directly into an escape room. At the end of the exercise, an AI analyzes the audio transcript to evaluate what percentage of their spoken language was genuinely team-oriented, supportive, and helpful, versus fighting, pushing individual agendas, or arguing over whose idea is best. Initially, less than 20% of the students' language qualifies as uplifting or collaborative. Alpha runs an eight-week workshop around this dynamic where students repeatedly return to the challenge until they reach an 85% threshold of constructive team behavior in order to pass the course.
The shift in communication delivers immediate, measurable performance gains: once the students adopt this collaborative posture, they solve the escape room three times faster. Joe Liemandt stresses that life skills at Alpha are treated with the exact same measurable rigor as core academics, such as passing a physics or math exam. For example, fourth and fifth graders at Alpha are tasked with completing a Wharton MBA challenge that 50% of actual MBA students fail. Liemandt argues that because students finish their core academic requirements in a fraction of the time, schools finally have the margin to teach these vital capabilities at a dramatically younger age: “And I believe as we look at the world, you know, we haven't had the capability to teach kids, you know, all this at a much younger age... but now that we can, of course, you know, we must.”
- Students start with under 20% collaborative language in the escape room challenge.
- The passing benchmark requires reaching 85% team-oriented dialogue.
- Achieving proper teamwork enables students to finish escape rooms 3x faster.
- Fourth and fifth graders successfully complete a Wharton MBA challenge failed by half of Wharton graduate students.
---
[10:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=640s) The 80–85% Rule and Engineering Academic Wins
Addressing why students often grow to dislike traditional schooling, Liemandt separates the problem into academics and life skills. In traditional American schools, the system is fundamentally time-based: a class moves on regardless of whether an individual student grasped the foundational concepts. Once a student falls behind, every subsequent class becomes an agonizing experience. Drawing an analogy to youth sports, Liemandt notes that parents often hold kids back so they can be bigger, win games, receive positive feedback, and build momentum, whereas academic systems routinely force struggling students forward without mastering prerequisites.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: The Zone of Proximal Engagement
accDescr: A diagram illustrating student engagement across different accuracy zones.
A -->|"No challenge"| Disengage1["Boredom"]
B -->|"Engineered wins"| Flow["High Agency & Excitement"]
C -->|"Video game failure limit"| Disengage2["Frustration & Quitting"]
```
Alpha solves this through an adaptive learning engine that tailors instruction entirely to the student's personal level. If an eighth grader missed a fifth-grade concept before arriving at Alpha, the software serves up a fifth-grade lesson so the student can achieve mastery and progress without shame. Liemandt points out that human psychology mirrors video game mechanics: if a player succeeds 100% of the time, the game is boring; if they fail more than a third of the time (falling below roughly 66% accuracy), they disengage entirely. Alpha continuously calibrates lesson difficulty to keep students in an 80% to 85% accuracy sweet spot, inserting scaffolding lessons if problems get too difficult and accelerating progression when they become too easy. As Liemandt puts it, “One of the things that, you know, a learning engine can do that a teacher in front of a classroom with 30 people can't do is make sure the kid gets an unending stream of lessons and questions that's 80 to 85% accurate.”
- Traditional time-based schooling traps students who fall behind in persistent academic struggles.
- Alpha's personalized engine supplies foundational lessons irrespective of grade level.
- 100% accuracy yields stagnation and disengagement from lack of challenge.
- Accuracy dropping below two-thirds (66%) triggers frustration and abandonment, matching video game engagement drop-offs.
- The 80–85% target range maintains optimal flow, engagement, and confidence.
---
[13:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=787s) Applying K–12 Insights to Higher Education at Horowitz Andreessen Academy
Gagan Biyani reflects on how Alpha School's model directly inspires the mission of Horowitz Andreessen Academy (HAA). Biyani argues that when educational environments are reimagined from the ground up using modern tools, outcomes can be improved by an order of magnitude across every dimension. While people frequently attend elite universities solely for the social network or character development, Biyani insists HAA intends to engineer an environment that makes a student's network ten times stronger, encourages them to become positive-sum contributors, and cultivates high agency to tackle hard challenges.
The crucial design constraint, Biyani explains, is that educational strategies cannot simply be copied across age brackets; K–8, high school, and college require distinct pedagogical approaches. The primary failure of contemporary higher education is an organizational misallocation of attention. Biyani observes that university presidents and senior leadership are almost completely consumed by institutional politics rather than student development: “Unfortunately, there aren't many... because most university leaders are required to spend 90% of their time focused on all the adults around them and not enough on the students.” In contrast, effective programs maintain an uncompromising, student-centric focus.
---
[15:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=914s) Why Elite College Interns Are Terrified and What Reinvented Higher Ed Looks Like
Liemandt explains why he chose to back HAA as an investor and advisor: higher education desperately needs structural reinvention, and Alpha needs high-caliber institutions where its graduates can thrive. He rejects the notion that college will become completely obsolete or that high schoolers will simply stop pursuing higher degrees. Rather, students will demand schools that actually equip them for the future instead of saddling them with obsolete preparation.
To illustrate this crisis, Liemandt shares an experience from the previous summer, when Alpha brought in over 70 interns from top-tier institutions including MIT, Stanford, and the University of Texas at Austin. When Liemandt polled the room and asked how many believed their university was preparing them for the post-graduation world, only a single student raised their hand. The cohort voiced profound anxiety, sharing that after grinding for 12 years to earn admission to elite universities, they feared that the entry-level junior jobs they anticipated would be eliminated by AI before they graduated.
During their internship, these students were given the opportunity to work 80 hours a week designing an educational small language model (SLM) capable of running locally on devices so individual nations could have free, sovereign educational AI models. Engaging directly with serious, cutting-edge engineering transformed their morale. The interns realized that university should not be passive lecture consumption, but an intense collaborative crucible where students tackle world-changing technical problems together. As Liemandt recounted from the interns' reactions, “This is what we would love the university to be where we're all working together on this super hard thing, right, that has meaningful impact to the world, right, that could could really help change the world.”
- Cohort included 70+ interns sourced from MIT, Stanford, and UT Austin.
- Only 1 out of 70+ students believed their university prepared them adequately for post-grad careers.
- Students expressed deep fear that AI would eliminate traditional 1- to 2-year entry-level roles.
- Interns worked 80-hour weeks developing a sovereign, edge-compatible educational small language model (SLM) to conduct original research and earn publication.
[17:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1077s) Moving Beyond Lecture Halls: Real-World Building as Curriculum
Joe Liemandt and Gagan Biyani discuss the sharp contrast between traditional university curricula and the project-based environment students need to thrive. Liemandt points out that while the deep work done by Alpha School students—such as conducting research into learning science and building an internal data structure called the "brain lift" while developing an LLM—could theoretically be taught at elite institutions like MIT, Stanford, or the University of Texas, it simply is not handled that way in practice. Rather than assigning textbooks during an intense 80-hour work week in Austin, the students were tasked with self-directed research to solve real-world problems. Liemandt stresses that higher education must shift from mere studying to learning how to apply knowledge as an active builder.
Biyani emphasizes that ambitious 18-year-olds are entering the workforce within three to four years and need to make mistakes, encounter obstacles, and get their hands dirty. He notes that motivation accounts for 90% of learning: at 18, students care about building products people will actually use, generating revenue, and securing employment. Yet the traditional format fails to engage them. While Biyani observed classes that were about half-full twenty years ago, attendance in large lecture halls on campuses like Stanford has plummeted to well under 10%, with students either skipping entirely or sitting disengaged on laptops and TikTok. Reinventing the format around real-world building is the core mission behind the Horowitz Andreessen Academy.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Traditional University versus Applied Builder Model
accDescr: Comparison of traditional passive lecture formats against the hands-on builder curriculum.
subgraph Traditional["Traditional Lecture Model"]
direction TB
T1["Textbook Reading & Passive 100-Series Lectures"]
T2["Low Motivation (<10% Class Attendance)"]
T3["Abstract Knowledge Disconnected from Application"]
T1 --> T2 --> T3
end
subgraph Builder["Applied Builder Model"]
direction TB
B1["Hands-on Problem Solving (e.g., LLM & Brain Lift Research)"]
B2["Intrinsic Motivation (Revenue, Live Users, Shipping)"]
B3["Applied Mastery & Real-World Resilience"]
B1 --> B2 --> B3
end
```
- When visiting high-tier college campuses today, Biyani observes that attendance in foundational lecture halls has dropped from around 50% two decades ago to under 10% today.
- Liemandt explains that during their Austin internship, high school students researched learning science fundamentals directly to construct LLM software rather than reading preassigned course textbooks.
---
[20:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1233s) The Unbundled University and the Dropout Perspective
Reflecting on feedback from Alpha High’s first graduating class three years prior, Liemandt shares that the alumni were excelling with 4.0 GPAs at their respective colleges, but found large 100-series lecture courses entirely obsolete. Five of those students even authored op-eds in their student newspapers criticizing the charade of distracted peers and disengaged instructors. The students reported that while the lectures were a waste of time, they deeply valued the other parts of the college bundle: small-group seminars, student clubs, and extracurricular collaboration. Biyani highlights the paradox that the non-academic aspects students value most are entirely peer-driven, while the university’s formal offering—the lecture curriculum—consumes roughly 50% of an attendee’s scheduled time.
Liemandt recalls his own days before dropping out of Stanford, noting that the real value of the university was not sitting in lecture halls, but the serendipitous environment and the caliber of people around him. He reminisces about attending talks by Steve Jobs, watching friends leave to work at NeXT, and having direct conversations and lunches with Silicon Valley figures like Bill Joy and Scott McNealy. “That eventually became our company, right? That was what was great about the product to me and sitting in these lecture classes were, you know, the opposite of that,” Liemandt states, emphasizing that peer networks and building projects alongside friends were the true drivers of his entrepreneurial success.
---
[22:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1364s) The 1910 Tractor Analogy: Why Parents Are Rethinking the Ivy League
Turning to the parental side of education decisions, Erik Torenberg asks how conversations with parents are evolving across K–12 and higher education. Liemandt, having spoken with tens of thousands of parents, notes a major divide. While some kindergarten parents still seek a pipeline to elite credentials, an increasing number of Harvard and Stanford alumni are proactively seeking alternative paths because they know the world is changing too fast for legacy credentials alone to prepare their children. While parents of 11th and 12th graders are typically at the "5-yard line" and reluctant to upend the college-application track, parents of younger children realize that simply following the historical route will leave their kids unprepared for an AI-altered workforce.
To explain this cultural inflection point, Liemandt draws a historical parallel to the American high school movement of 1910:
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Historical Parallel 1910 Farm Shift to 2020s AI Shift
accDescr: Flow diagram showing how the 1910 displacement of agricultural labor by tractors mirrors today's displacement of knowledge work by AI.
subgraph Era1910["1910: Agricultural Disruption"]
direction TB
A1["Case Gas Tractor Arrives"] --> A2["Displaces Field Hands (30% of US Workforce)"]
A2 --> A3["130,000 Towns Self-Tax to Build High Schools"]
end
subgraph Era2020s["Present: AI Disruption"]
direction TB
B1["Modern AI & LLMs Arrive"] --> B2["White-Collar & Entry-Level Roles Displaced"]
B2 --> B3["Parents Seek New Educational Models Built for Builders"]
end
```
In 1910, roughly 90% of Americans had only an eighth-grade education, and over 30% of the population worked on farms. When the Case gas tractor arrived on the scene—featuring marketing copy that Liemandt compares to modern Anthropic advertisements touting that one system does the work of 50 laborers—families realized the multi-generational agrarian career path had vanished overnight. Rather than doubling down on what they knew, citizens across 130,000 American towns voted to tax themselves to fund an institution they had never experienced: the modern secondary high school. That industrial-era schooling system served society for a century, but Liemandt argues that today’s parents face an identical obligation: they must support an unfamiliar model of education if their children are to thrive in the coming economy.
- In 1910, approximately 90% of the American populace stopped their formal education at the eighth grade, and more than 30% worked in agriculture.
- Across the United States, citizens in 130,000 distinct towns voluntarily raised their local taxes to build and fund high schools, creating a completely novel curriculum to prepare youth for industrial jobs.
- Liemandt observes that while parents of high school seniors are locked into traditional college admissions, parents of younger children are actively hunting for non-traditional paths that teach real-world problem-solving.
[27:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1635s) The Adoption Curve and the Myth of the "Safe" Path
When discussing why families should take a risk on a brand-new educational institution like Horowitz Andreessen Academy (HAA), Joe Liemandt reflects on four years of navigating the exact same challenge at the K-12 level with Alpha School. He emphasizes that the adoption curve works in distinct phases: an innovative school does not need everybody at the beginning, only the initial cohort who already intuitively senses that traditional schooling has failed. Liemandt recalls that when his own daughters reached eighth grade, people warned him that attending Alpha would destroy their chances of getting into college and that they had to follow the traditional route. Yet looking back four years later, the parents who chose the standard high school track often find themselves full of regret, watching Alpha students thrive while their own children struggle in a model they thought was secure.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: The Educational Innovation Adoption Loop
accDescr: Flowchart illustrating how initial early adopters validate a new school model, leading to mainstream surge.
subgraph EarlyStage["1. Early Pioneer Stage"]
A["Info Sessions: 1,000+ Attendees"] --> B["First Adopters Join: 10-25 Students"]
B --> C["Hiccups Handled by High-Conviction Families"]
end
subgraph ValidationStage["2. Validation & Proof"]
C --> D["Year 1 Proof of Thriving Students"]
end
subgraph GrowthStage["3. Mainstream Demand"]
D --> E["Late Adopters Realize 'Safe Path' Failed"]
E --> F["Demand Skyrockets & Campuses Fill (e.g., 150 Students)"]
end
```
Liemandt admits that he himself was initially an educational skeptic. When Mackenzie Price and Brian Price co-founded Alpha twelve years earlier, Liemandt had his own kids enrolled in Catholic school—the exact environment he grew up in. Even though he had dropped out of college and built a successful company out of a garage, he initially judged Alpha harshly, thinking schools had no business operating out of garage-style spaces. It took him two full years to come around and enroll his children ten years ago—a delay his daughters still tease him about today, asking why he took so long.
Across Alpha’s expansion to 50 campuses nationwide, that same initial hesitation repeated itself constantly. A year prior, while launching 12 new campuses, Alpha would host informational sessions packed with over 1,000 parents, yet barely scrape together 10 to 12 students to open in places like New York City. Once those original pioneers proved the model worked after their first year, demand exploded, and the New York City campus filled up completely to 150 students. As Liemandt puts it:
> “You just need someone to go first and once you get that first and it works, the demand just skyrockets.”
- Alpha has opened 50 campuses nationwide using this early-adopter model.
- Early informational sessions routinely drew over 1,000 parents, but initial cohorts often began with only 10 to 25 students.
- The New York City location started with just 10 or 12 students and subsequently expanded to reach full capacity at 150 students.
[31:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1863s) Magnet Marketing and Lowering Downside Risk
Gagan Biyani highlights that early adopters inherently benefit from positive self-selection. Drawing parallels to early cohorts of the Thiel Fellowship, Biyani notes that the students and parents willing to jump into an unproven model possess the courage of their convictions, creating a community of exceptionally bright and driven individuals. Liemandt agrees wholeheartedly, warning that early-stage education ventures must embrace "magnet marketing"—actively attracting high-conviction families while deliberately repelling skeptics who complain about AI or screen time. Because startups inevitably face early hiccups, bringing in late-adopter parents who lack conviction will only lead to panic and friction, whereas founding families who share the vision become an enduring institutional asset.
Reflecting on HAA's launch strategy, Biyani explains that the academy plans to remain extremely selective regarding admissions rather than trying to optimize for a large class size. Crucially, the collegiate program is structured as a one-year experience with no tuition for its inaugural year. That distinction makes experimenting at the college level far less risky than missing a formative grade like eighth grade: students can always defer admission, take a one-year detour, and return to an elite university if they choose. Liemandt reinforces that this removes nearly all parental downside, arguing that the true risk lies in forcing students down a path they hate rather than letting them chase something they care about.
> “Let's even just say it doesn't work out for him, right? And whatever and it's not—it'll be the best learning experience of their life, right? And they'll be right ready to do the other.”
[34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2074s) Student Agency and Joe's Dropout Story
Reflecting on their own shared distaste for traditional schooling, Biyani notes that he, Liemandt, and Erik Torenberg all hit a point in adolescence where they rebelled against being forced to do work without personal buy-in. Biyani recalls that around age 13 to 15, his sense of personal agency kicked in; he began to see through the institution, realizing his teachers did not even understand the best ways to teach math, yet he was still forced to take standardized tests. In response, Alpha and HAA design their pedagogical models around the student to foster genuine ownership rather than provoking instinctive defiance.
Liemandt validates this by sharing his personal backstory: throughout K-12, he was constantly in trouble, regularly skipped classes, and did only the bare minimum required to get accepted into Stanford University. Once there, he dropped out to start his first company, Trilogy. The decision outraged his father, resulting in a widely publicized remark in the media:
> “When I dropped out, my dad had a famous quote that was like on Forbes or whatever, you know, 'my son's a moron,' and you know, and sort of, right? And he was not happy.”
What the original press coverage failed to capture was the aftermath. After dropping out, Liemandt threw himself into startup life, working 100-hour weeks alongside his team and sleeping on the floor under desks. Observing this unprecedented drive and relentless work ethic, his father completely reversed his stance within two years, admitting that dropping out had been the single best decision his son ever made.
[36:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2187s) The Shift from Academic Coasting to Purpose-Driven Struggle
Reflecting on his own path, Joe Liemandt recounts how terrified his father was that he would end up a lazy failure because of his mediocre academic record. The transformation only arrived once he threw himself into work he loved. Liemandt draws a direct line between his own upbringing and the founding ethos of Alpha School: when children are centered around what genuinely interests them, the transformation is almost immediate. As Liemandt puts it: “It's because we have them doing hard things that they want to do, right? And all of a sudden it does change and it's that quick.” Rather than seeking out an easy ride in a standard school setting, kids naturally rise to challenging environments when they have chosen the struggle themselves.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Intrinsic Motivation vs Academic Drift
accDescr: A comparison showing how passion-led challenges produce agency whereas standard schooling produces either burnout or detachment.
subgraph StandardModel["Traditional Schooling"]
A["Focus on Grades & Structure"] --> B{"Student Reaction"}
B -->|"Disengaged"| C["Labeled Lazy / Unmotivated"]
B -->|"Compliant"| D["Straight A's but Lacks Direction"]
D --> E["Struggles in Ambiguous Work World"]
end
subgraph AlphaModel["Agency & Project-Based Model"]
F["Choose Passions & Hard Things"] --> G["Rapid Cognitive Onload via AI"]
G --> H["Build Real Projects & Solve Problems"]
H --> I["Deep Ownership, Resilience & Drive"]
end
```
Liemandt illustrates this appetite for hardship with Alpha High’s "World School" initiative, in which students spend a full year performing service abroad in Africa. To participate, every student is required to sign an explicit agreement acknowledging the difficulty ahead: “I realize this will be the hardest year of my life.” Far from deterring them, every single student signs willingly and shows up energized. Gagan Biyani jokes that after his own travels through Africa, Liemandt should send students to India or Sri Lanka if he wants them to experience an even steeper test, an idea Liemandt readily accepts.
- At Horowitz Andreessen Academy (HAA), the founders have allocated a $5,000 travel stipend per student.
- Biyani's personal objective is for students to travel solo to countries with a per capita GDP under $20,000 to gain perspective and self-reliance that will inform their business careers.
[38:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2331s) Beyond the GPA: What Employers Really Want
Biyani and Liemandt observe a glaring asymmetry in traditional education: students who appear unmotivated in school will easily pour 100 hours a week into something they actually care about, whereas straight-A students often falter when external structures are removed because they have never developed an internal compass. Liemandt contends that modern parents already sense that a high GPA does not guarantee real-world success; they simply lack an educational alternative that integrates practical life skills into the core curriculum rather than relegating them to extracurricular clubs.
Employers are equally dissatisfied with the conventional college graduate. Biyani emphasizes that companies are rarely worried about hard technical skills like basic coding or UI design. Instead, hiring managers routinely cite a shortage of maturity, people skills, and systems thinking. Because intelligence itself is increasingly commoditized by AI, the human competencies that can only be forged through live projects—navigating ambiguity, absorbing harsh feedback, weathering rejection, and managing group dynamics—are what distinguish top candidates.
> “And you can max, you know, score max on just your grades, but that is not something that means you do well in the real world.” — Joe Liemandt
[42:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2532s) If You Were 18 Today: Superpowers and Peer-Built Learning
When asked how he would direct his own education if he were an 18-year-old entering Horowitz Andreessen Academy, Liemandt outlines a framework centered on rapid cognitive onboarding and building. With AI tools accelerating domain comprehension tenfold, an ambitious student can absorb foundational material—effectively mastering the equivalent of a graduate degree—in under a year while working toward an applied goal. In his high school, students are already using AI to overhaul the Timeback software stack he originally built, mastering complex learning science along the way.
Far from sharing the despair of adult tech doomers, the teenagers Liemandt works with look at the older generation and assert that incumbent professionals are obsolete. Liemandt predicts that within two years, the majority of effective learning software will be created by students rather than educational publishers, because students inherently understand how to make digital content compelling. He highlights an Alpha High student named Austin who built an AP World History curriculum using an S-tier event ranking system and a GeoGuessr-style game run by a snarky AI. Every student who took Austin's student-built course achieved a score of 5 on their AP exam, proving that peer-built, AI-assisted learning tools will outcompete traditional adult educational design.
> “If you talk to our high school kids at Alpha High, they're definitely not doomers about like AI in the future. They're like, you adults are cooked like we're coming for you and we have superpowers.” — Joe Liemandt
[45:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2706s) Offense Over Defense: Cultivating AI-Native Builders
Gagan Biyani addresses an underlying anxiety among modern students, arguing that asking which career path is “safe” from artificial intelligence is completely the wrong framing. The right question is simply identifying what one is genuinely passionate about, because being AI-native in any chosen domain provides tremendous leverage. While traditional practitioners who rely exclusively on old methods like chalkboards, pencil, and paper will struggle, a new generation of AI-native mathematicians, coders, and specialists will accomplish things previously thought impossible. Biyani explains that Horowitz Andreessen Academy actively filters against applicants seeking defensive safety nets.
As an illustration, Biyani points to his own background in education. Historically, education has been an exceptionally difficult, non-lucrative market for startup founders, yielding only a handful of genuine wins over the last fifteen to twenty years. Despite those head winds, pursuing the domain with full commitment allowed him to operate at the caliber of top founders in artificial intelligence or enterprise SaaS and build a rewarding, high-impact life. Joe Liemandt concurs, stressing that raising high-character children requires shifting them away from the passive posture of waiting to see what the world imposes on them. Instead, educators must foster proactive creators who view the future through an optimistic lens.
“It's a very defensive way of approaching the world and we want you to be on offense.” — Gagan Biyani
“We need to create a generation of builders who look at this optimistically, right? All our kids read Rational Optimist, right? And they sit there and say, 'Yes, I'm in control of it.' Right? And we need to build our future.” — Joe Liemandt
- Traditional academics who refuse to adapt to AI tools will be left behind, whereas AI-native scholars will push the boundaries of their fields.
- Horowitz Andreessen Academy explicitly screens out applicants seeking safe harbor, preferring students eager to play offense.
- Students at Alpha School read Matt Ridley’s *The Rational Optimist* to cultivate agency and conviction over passive resignation.
---
[48:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2911s) Alpha Founder School: The $1M Profit Guarantee
Turning to Alpha’s high school initiatives, Joe Liemandt details Founder School, a specialized program designed for teenagers who want to spend their high school years launching real enterprises. Liemandt notes that while AI will likely cause Fortune 500 corporations to shrink headcounts, it will simultaneously unlock a massive explosion in entrepreneurship. Rather than treating venture creation as an inexplicable bolt of lightning, Alpha approaches it as an actionable, step-by-step life skill that begins as early as kindergarten with basic personal finance concepts like earning, saving, spending, investing, and donating, facilitated by an internal currency called "alphas."
For high schoolers, the stakes are raised significantly through a performance guarantee that skeptical parents struggle to believe: students will either build a business generating $1 million in profit while enrolled in high school, or Alpha refunds their entire tuition. Having opened its doors in August following four years of preliminary data from Alpha High students, the curriculum scaffolds progress in stages from earning $100 to $1,000, $10,000, $100,000, and ultimately $1,000,000. Liemandt observes that several freshmen are already speedrunning through the milestones so rapidly that the program risks running out of curriculum within year one, prompting students to set their sights on even larger ventures.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Founder School Scaffolding Milestones
accDescr: Step-by-step revenue and profit benchmarks taught at Alpha Founder School leading up to the $1 million guarantee.
subgraph Traction ["Early Traction"]
B["$100 Profit"] --> C["$1,000 Profit"]
end
subgraph Scaling ["Scale & Mastery"]
D["$10,000 Profit"] --> E["$100,000 Profit"]
E --> F["$1,000,000 Profit<br/>(Tuition-Back Guarantee)"]
end
A --> B
C --> D
```
“The part that's crazy that parents don't believe, you know, is we guarantee that you'll start a business that will earn a million dollars of profit while you're in high school or we give you all your tuition back, right?” — Joe Liemandt
“Kids are speedrunning it, and we're like, okay, they're going to earn a million dollars in the first year. Like I'm out of curriculum and they're freshman, right?” — Joe Liemandt
- Alpha School instills financial fundamentals starting in kindergarten, utilizing an internal school currency known as "alphas."
- Founder School high schoolers must progress through specific revenue milestones: $100, $1,000, $10,000, $100,000, and $1,000,000.
- Failure to reach $1 million in business profit results in a 100% money-back tuition guarantee for families.
---
[51:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3064s) Demystifying Luminaries Through Direct Access
Beyond technical execution, Liemandt emphasizes that learning how to build relationships and network is critical for young entrepreneurs. Reflecting on his own days at Stanford University, he notes that the primary benefit of campus visits from prominent industry titans was demystifying them, realizing that these world-renowned leaders were ordinary human beings, which gave ambitious young students the confidence to pursue similar paths. Alpha fosters this same dynamic: Liemandt shares an anecdote about a 14-year-old student who cold-called NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang. Jensen returned the call, realized he was speaking to a teenager, granted him a ninety-second pitch, and then provided sharp, direct feedback explaining that using precious phone time for basic qualification questions was poor prep that should have been handled by researching his team in advance.
The student received an "F on call prep," yet the real-world critique served as an invaluable masterclass that reverberated across the school community. Biyani and Liemandt note that traditional universities rarely facilitate this depth of industry immersion. Biyani credits Erik Torenberg with building an expansive network of top operators across various disciplines for HAA, mirroring how Alpha engages mentors. Biyani recalls Max Levchin recently explaining how closely collaborating with peers like Elon Musk, Reid Hoffman, and David Sacks during PayPal's early days normalized high ambitions. Exposing young students to candid war stories from leaders like Jensen Huang, Sam Altman, and Satya Nadella shows them that tech icons face the same uncertainties and failures, ultimately elevating what these students believe they can achieve.
“I mean, they're obviously really impressive, but they're just like a normal human. And it makes it accessible to you to be able to say, 'Well, I can do that, too.'” — Joe Liemandt
“So, you know, kudos for aggressiveness, but you get an F on call prep.” — Joe Liemandt, summarizing Jensen Huang's feedback to a 14-year-old student
“Max Levchin was in this chair a few weeks ago and he was talking about how hey, you know, he was inspired to think so big and so ambitiously because he worked with Elon, he worked with Reid Hoffman, with David Sacks, and he saw that they went through the ups and downs. They were just like him.” — Gagan Biyani
[54:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3268s) Raising Ambition and Reimagining Education
The conversation turns to the foundational role mentorship plays in shaping what young people believe is possible. Reflecting on an idea famously voiced by economist Tyler Cowen, Joe Liemandt highlights that “the number one thing a teacher can do is raise a student's ambition for themselves.” At Alpha School, this principle forms the bedrock of everyday operations, and Joe points out that the Horowitz Andreessen Academy is deliberately architected around the exact same premise. By intentionally curating peer cohorts, building an empowering culture, and surrounding students with people who expect great things, educational environments can permanently reset the ceiling on what individuals strive to achieve throughout their lives.
Looking across the broader educational landscape, the hosts observe that despite clear operational differences between K–12 and higher education, both sectors have remained remarkably stagnant. Since around 1910, the fundamental institutional models have seen virtually no real disruption, and higher education in particular has witnessed almost no major new entrants willing to challenge the status quo. What both Alpha School and HAA are undertaking is an effort to elevate the ambition of what education itself can look like, pioneering new frameworks over the past decade rather than accepting outdated century-old structures. Joe expresses deep confidence in the latent capability of the next generation, concluding with optimism: “Well, kids are kids are awesome. They can do way more than all of us expect and I believe that coming out of yours, you're going to just raise that to the next level.”
- **The Primary Task of an Educator**: Citing Tyler Cowen, the group emphasizes that raising a student’s personal ambition matters far more than merely dispensing static curriculum.
- **A Century of Institutional Stagnation**: Higher education and K–12 schooling have gone roughly a hundred years without fundamental structural disruption or prominent new institutional entrants.
- **Shared Mission**: Both Alpha School and Horowitz Andreessen Academy are designed around creating cultures of agency, high standards, and expanded horizons for young builders.
## Notable quotes
> [06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=370s) The key to your child's happiness is high standards. Kids want to go do hard things, right? They love to do hard things and they love to do hard things with their friends. — Joe Liemandt
> [54:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3268s) the number one thing a teacher can do is raise a student's ambition for themselves. — Joe Liemandt
> [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=0s) I believe now every school—and it doesn't matter, K-12, university—has to say: if the traditional way and the traditional curriculum is now 10 times faster, what do you do with the rest of the day? — Joe Liemandt
## Mentioned
Joe Liemandt, Gagan Biyani, Erik Torenberg, Alpha School, Alpha High, Horowitz Andreessen Academy, Stanford University, MIT, University of Texas at Austin, Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, Trilogy, Jensen Huang, NVIDIA, Steve Jobs, NeXT, Bill Joy, Scott McNealy, Max Levchin, Elon Musk, Reid Hoffman, David Sacks, PayPal, Sam Altman, Satya Nadella, Tyler Cowen, Mackenzie Price, Brian Price, Anthropic, The Rational Optimist, Matt Ridley, Thiel Fellowship, Timeback
## Video description
What should school look like if AI can help students learn dramatically faster? Alpha School principal Joe Liemandt argues the answer isn’t to fill the extra time with more academics, but to redesign school around the skills traditional classrooms struggle to teach: agency, teamwork, entrepreneurship, communication, and doing hard things.
Joe joins Erik Torenberg and Horowitz Andreessen Academy co-founder Gagan Biyani to discuss Alpha’s model, where students spend two hours a day on core academics and the rest developing real-world skills through projects. They explore what that approach can teach higher education, why motivation may matter more than curriculum, and how HAA is applying similar principles to college-age students by putting building, relationships, and real-world experience at the center of the learning experience.
They also discuss what parents need to believe before choosing a new educational model, why Joe expects AI to drive an explosion in entrepreneurship, and why the most important question for students may not be which field is safest from AI, but what they care enough about to build.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:40 How Alpha Teaches Kids 10x Faster
6:44 Why Kids Love School More Than Vacation
10:40 The 85% Rule That Keeps Kids Engaged
15:14 Why This Summer's Interns Are Terrified
23:01 Why Ivy League Parents Are Switching
27:21 You Just Need Someone to Go First
35:37 "My Son's a Moron": Joe's Dropout Story
42:12 What You'd Study If You Were 18 Today
48:31 Founders School: Earn $1M or Get Tuition Back
Resources:
Learn more about Horowitz Andreessen Academy: https://www.theacademysf.com/
Learn more about Alpha School: https://alpha.school/joe-liemandt-and-the-future-of-education/
Follow Joe Liemandt on X: https://x.com/jliemandt
Follow Gagan Biyani: on X https://x.com/gaganbiyani
Follow Erik Torenberg on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg
Stay Updated:
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Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16z
Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z
Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYX
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## Background
该视频由 a16z 频道于 2026 年 10 月 27 日发布在 YouTube 平台上。视频中，Alpha School 校长 Joe Liemandt 与 Erik Torenberg 以及 Horowitz Andreessen Academy（HAA）联合创始人 Gagan Biyani 展开深入对谈，探讨如何借助 AI 和认知科学将核心学术学习压缩至每天两小时，并彻底重塑学校作息，转向以自主能动性、团队协作、创业实践等真实技能为中心的创新教育模式。
## TL;DR
对谈探讨了传统 K-12 与高等教育模式在百年来面临的根本滞后，并详细拆解了 Alpha School 借助 AI 驱动引擎实现 10 倍速学习的实践机制。学生每天仅需投入两小时即可完成学术课程并保持全美前 1% 的优异表现，剩余时间则用于开展严苛的生活技能工作坊、商业实践与硬核挑战。嘉宾们还结合 HAA 的新型大学实践与历史上的教育大转型，指出 AI 时代教育的终极要义并非培养被动的应试人才，而是通过进攻型思维、动手造物和提升自我雄心，塑造出对未来充满乐观与掌控力的新一代实干家。
## Atmosphere & style
整场对谈洋溢着科技乐观主义与破局者的充沛激情，兼具深度的认知思辨与犀利的教育体制批判。三位嘉宾以创业者和教育实践者的内行视角坦诚碰撞，言辞间既有对名校光环失效与学生现状的清醒洞察，也穿插了诸如退学往事、冷启动电话对线黄仁勋等生动鲜活的轶事。探讨层层推进，从底层学习心理学自然延伸至宏大的社会与代际重塑，给听众带来兼具思想震撼与感染力的高能体验。
## Bulletin
- [01:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=114s) Alpha School 结合认知科学与大语言模型打造自适应学习引擎，使学生每天仅需 2 小时学术学习即可达到传统教学 10 倍速的掌握效率，并在标准化考试中稳步进入全美前 1% 梯队。
- [01:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=114s) Alpha 颠覆了传统教学作息，将下午时间全部重塑为团队协作、创业财商、公开演讲等五大未来生活技能训练，推动超过 90% 的学生热爱学校，甚至有 50% 至 65% 的学生表示爱上学胜过休假。
- [13:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=807s) 在针对斯坦福、MIT 等顶尖名校的 70 余名夏季实习生调研中，仅有 1 人认为大学课程为真实世界做好了准备，AI 导致初级白领岗位迅速萎缩已引发名校生普遍的就业恐慌。
- [48:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2911s) 旗下特色高中 Founders School 推出对赌式学费保障：通过阶梯式技能拆解确保学生在高中期间创立赚取 100 万美元净利润的企业，否则全额退还学费。
## Key takeaways
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=0s) 过去百年 K-12 教学模式停滞不前，而认知科学与 LLM 的结合使人类首次拥有构建十倍速自适应学习引擎的能力。
- [01:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=114s) 通过每天 2 小时高密度核心学术学习与下午关键生活技能工作坊的重构，Alpha 实现了学生规模与教学质量的正向飞轮扩张，目前已拓展至 50 个校区。
- [06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=370s) 儿童真正的幸福感源于攻克艰巨任务与高标准挑战，而非缺乏约束的娱乐放任；严苛的团队协作训练从小学三年级便可通过 AI 语言分析进行量化考核。
- [10:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=640s) 自适应学习引擎借鉴游戏机制，将学生答题正确率严格维持在 80% 至 85% 的心流区间，避免了低于 66% 导致的挫败放弃与 100% 导致的无效重复。
- [20:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1233s) 传统名校阶梯大课出勤率与教学效能暴跌，大学的核心价值正在退化为社交人脉与社团副产品，倒逼高等教育必须重新围绕真实造物展开重塑。
- [22:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1364s) 越来越多自身毕业于常春藤的精英家长开始坚决抛弃传统名校路线，清醒认识到工业时代的旧应试教育无法适应未来 AI 社会的发展需求。
- [25:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1505s) 当前教育变革与 1910 年代拖拉机自动化引发的全美高中创办潮高度相似，社会必须投资并信任一种家长自身未曾经历过的全新教育模式。
- [27:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1635s) 创新教育在早期依靠极具信念感的小群体实现冷启动，一旦渡过缺乏数据的首年并验证了学生的茁壮成长，市场需求将呈爆发式增长。
- [31:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1863s) 新型办学应采取磁吸营销法则，果断劝退抗拒科技的保守家长，以严控门槛凝聚共识，同时大学阶段的间隔年探索在机制上几乎没有下行风险。
- [36:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2187s) 传统体制在缺乏主观认同下的强制规训容易压抑学生的潜能，而一旦将学习与自主选择的硬核难事深度绑定，学生能在一个月内完成蜕变并爆发出百小时的奋斗动力。
- [40:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2423s) AI 时代纯智力与专业知识面临商品化，雇主真正渴求的是必须在复杂项目实战中才能磨炼的人际交往、心智成熟度与系统性思维等核心特质。
- [42:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2532s) 认知装载速度借助 AI 提升 10 倍，高中生即可自主研发前沿软件，年轻一代不再是末日悲观派，而是充满进攻性与自豪感的构建者。
- [45:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2706s) 在 AI 时代无需防御性地猜测哪个专业最安全，关键在于带着进攻型心态深耕热爱领域，并成为该领域的 AI 原生代前 1% 构建者。
- [54:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3268s) 教育最根本的使命并非灌输机械知识，而是如同泰勒·考恩所指出的，通过设计赋能的环境与文化，持续拔高学生对自我抱负与潜力的期望值。
## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=0s) 颠覆传统教育：利用认知科学与LLM打造十倍速学习引擎
对谈在对当代学校教育的大胆反思中拉开序幕。Joe Liemandt 提出，过去一百年里，K-12 教学的设计与交付形式几乎停滞不前——依然是一名教师站在讲台前面对整间教室的学生。然而过去几十年来认知科学与学习科学的积淀，结合大语言模型（LLM）的爆发，让人类第一次有能力构建出一套全新的学习引擎，使孩子们的学习速度达到过去的十倍。面对这样颠覆性的效率提升，核心问题随即变成了：当传统的学术内容在极短时间内就能掌握时，学校到底该如何重新设计孩子们的一整天？
Gagan Biyani 和 Erik Torenberg 谈到，这种模式不仅颠覆了基础教育，也深刻启发了他们创立的 Horowitz Andreessen Academy（HAA）。随着 AI 的普及，年轻一代不应在焦虑中被动应对未来，而应该成为充满乐观与自主能力的创造者。正如 Joe Liemandt 在开篇所强调的愿景：“I want this next generation to be the ones who are optimistically capable with AI and saying, we're going to build an awesome future.”（我想让下一代成为对 AI 充满乐观与驾驭能力的人，并敢于说我们要去构建一个了不起的未来。）
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 传统教学与 Alpha School 学习引擎对比
accDescr: 对比传统百年未变的单向讲授模式与结合了认知科学及大语言模型的现代学习引擎。
subgraph Traditional["传统教学模式（过去100年）"]
T1["教师讲台单向讲授"] --> T2["整班步调一致推进"]
T2 --> T3["全天6-7小时灌输 + 课后繁重作业"]
end
subgraph AlphaEngine["Alpha School 学习引擎"]
A1["认知科学与学习科学"] & A2["大语言模型 (LLMs)"] --> A3["自适应个性化引擎"]
A3 --> A4["每天仅需2小时学术核心学习"]
A4 --> A5["达成传统模式10倍速的掌握效率"]
end
```
---
### [01:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=114s) Alpha School的三大核心承诺：学术两小时与全天重构
在 Alpha School 的办学框架中，团队向学生和家长做出了三个明确的承诺：
1. **让孩子发自内心热爱学校**：在最新的全校满意度调查中，超过 90% 的学生明确表示热爱学校；多达 50% 的孩子甚至表示自己宁愿去上学也不愿去休假；在其中一个分校校区，这个数字甚至高达 65%。
2. **每天仅需两小时的学术学习，收获翻倍**：利用 AI 驱动的高效学习引擎，学生每天只花两小时在核心学术课程上，学到的知识却是传统学校坐满六七个小时加做作业的两倍。依靠这种长期的复利效应，学生无论初始水平如何，标准化考试成绩最终都会稳步进入全美前 1% 的顶尖梯队。
3. **下午彻底重塑：全面培养面向未来的五大生活技能**：如果两小时就能学完学术内容，剩下的五六个小时该如何安排？校长 Joe Liemandt 幽默地指出，家长最不能接受的事情就是学校在两小时后就把孩子送回家。因此，整个下午被重塑为针对未来世界生存与发展的关键生活技能工作坊。
下午的实践项目围绕五大核心技能展开，学生们在成年导师的带领下，与同伴组队完成具有现实意义的挑战：
- **领导力与团队协作**（Leadership and Teamwork）
- **创业精神与财商素养**（Entrepreneurship and Financial Literacy）
- **社交能力与人际关系构建**（Socialization and Relationship Building）
- **故事叙述与公开演讲**（Storytelling and Public Speaking）
- **坚毅品格与硬核实干**（Grit and Hard Work）
凭借这套模式，Alpha 从最初在奥斯汀的一所学校，迅速扩展到新增 12 个校区，如今已发展至 50 个校区，市场需求极其火爆。Joe 坚信，无论基础教育还是高等教育，全球教育界终将意识到百年前的旧体系已不再适用，重新设计上学日的浪潮势不可挡。
---
### [04:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=287s) 产品化与可扩展性：“规模越大，表现越好”
Gagan Biyani 回忆起自己六年前初次探访 Alpha School 的经历。当时他虽然一眼看懂了其教育理念的先进性，但真正令人赞叹的，是 Joe 后来将这套理念变成了让大众确信且落地的现实。Gagan Biyani 评价道：“The shift that I think you've been able to make is the believability of it.”（我认为你所实现的真正转变，是让这一切变得令人信服。）
Joe Liemandt 解释说，自己在四年前全职出任校长，而他的个人背景是科技产品设计与商业创业。以往的新型教育理念往往停留在实验阶段，很难在保持质量的同时实现规模化扩张。他进入学校后的核心工作，就是将这套教学体系“产品化”（Productize），设计出既易于家长理解、又能高效标准复制的系统。引入 AI 带来了显著的飞轮效应，使学校能够打破“规模扩大必然导致教学质量稀释”的传统魔咒。
- **规模与质量正相关**：学校的核心运作理念是“越壮大，越卓越”（We get better as we get bigger）。
- **持续上升的指标**：过去四年里，伴随分校数量从 1 所扩展到 50 所，Alpha 学生的标化考试成绩、客户满意度、学生幸福感以及下午工作坊的质量每年都在持续提升。
---
### [06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=370s) 激发动力的核心秘诀：高标准与挑战困难事物
针对传统教育科技（EdTech）在学校中往往成效不彰的现象，Joe 直言，如果仅仅把一套先进的学习引擎生硬地塞进现有的传统教学作息里，它注定会沦为平庸的鸡肋。面对前来取经的教育管理者，他总是抛出同一个直击灵魂的问题：“Are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation?”（你是否愿意重新设计你的上学日，让孩子们爱上学胜过爱休假？）如果校长的回答是肯定的，变革才真正具备起点。
很多人在初次听说“孩子爱学校胜过度假”时，常误以为学校像迪士尼乐园一样放任自流，或者充斥着打游戏、看电视等低幼娱乐，缺乏严格的学术纪律。但 Joe 强调现实恰恰相反，儿童获得真正快乐与成就感的源泉在于挑战自我：“The key to your child's happiness is high standards.”（让你孩子获得快乐的关键在于高标准。）孩子们天生渴望和朋友一起去克服困难、完成艰巨的任务；如果只是打电子游戏，他们在家就能做，根本不会产生“比起度假更想去学校”的内驱力。
作为对比，传统学校几乎从不系统性地教授团队协作。常见的课堂“小组作业”往往沦为反面教材：通常是一个人累死累活做完全部内容，其余人袖手旁观，导致学生学到的全是团队合作的负面模式。为了印证传统教育体系在协作能力培养上的缺位，Joe 举例指出，在沃顿商学院（Wharton）著名的攀登珠穆朗玛峰 MBA 模拟挑战中，竟有高达 50% 的 MBA 高材生无法通过团队协作考核。而在 Alpha School，团队合作的严苛训练从小学三年级就已经全面展开。
### [08:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=532s) 密室逃脱、AI 语言分析与严苛的人生软技能训练
在 Alpha School，生活技能课程并不是表面功夫，其考核标准与物理或数学测试一样严苛。Joe Liemandt 介绍了一个具体的训练场景：学校会给孩子们佩戴麦克风，把他们丢进密室逃脱（escape room）中。在孩子们解密通关后，系统会利用 AI 深度分析录音转录文本，精准计算其语言中支持团队的比例。在基线状态下，结果往往令人沮丧：只有不到 20% 的发言具有支持和鼓励性质，绝大部分时间孩子们都在互相争吵、推诿责任或坚持“按我的想法来”。针对这一现象，Alpha 设计了为期 8 周的工作坊，学生们必须不断重复团队协作训练，只有团队导向语言占比达到 85% 才能顺利通过该课程并“毕业”。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Alpha 密室逃脱团队训练闭环
accDescr: 展示学生进入密室逃脱、AI 语言分析到反复训练并达标 85% 的全过程
subgraph Phase1["基线测试与分析"]
A["佩戴麦克风进入密室逃脱"] --> B["AI 深度分析转录文本"]
B --> C{"团队支持语言占比"}
C -->|"低于 20% (争吵/推诿)"| D["进入 8 周协作工作坊"]
end
subgraph Phase2["循环训练与达标"]
D --> E["重复团队演练"]
E --> F{"达标检测: 语言是否达到 85%?"}
F -->|"否"| E
F -->|"是"| G["通关课程: 团队解密速度提升 3 倍"]
end
```
这种训练带来了立竿见影的效果：当孩子们学会积极的团队协作时，通关密室的速度提升了三倍。不仅学生乐在其中，家长们也极为推崇。Joe Liemandt 指出，四年级和五年级的学生甚至被要求去挑战沃顿商学院的 MBA 商业案例挑战（Wharton MBA challenge）——这项挑战就连 50% 的顶尖 MBA 学生都无法通过，但小学生却能成功解出。这种挑战不仅激发了孩子们的极度自豪与兴奋，更证明了只要不再把他们整天死死按在传统课桌上，很多硬核技能完全可以在更年轻的时候被掌握。正如 Joe Liemandt 所强调的：
> “过去我们没有能力在这么小的年纪教会孩子这些，因为他们整天都要坐在教室里；但现在我们既然能做到了，当然必须去做。”
- **AI 语言指标**：初始状态下团队积极/支持性语言占比低于 20%，结课毕业门槛为 85%。
- **实际效能提升**：在团队协作机制成熟后，学生完成密室逃脱的速度提高了整整 3 倍。
- **高阶挑战实践**：四、五年级学生直接参与并攻克 50% 沃顿商学院 MBA 学生都无法通过的商业挑战。
---
### [10:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=640s) 80-85% 成功率区间：AI 学习引擎如何终结传统课堂的挫败感
孩子们讨厌学校的一个核心原因在于没人喜欢一直经历失败。这就像美国的体育训练常常让孩子留级一年（hold back），以凭借更强壮的体格赢得比赛、收获赞誉并建立正向循环一样；而在美国基于固定进度的传统学术体系中，一旦某个知识点掉队，后续的学习就彻底沦为了折磨。Alpha School 依靠自主研发的自适应学习引擎打破了这一宿命。无论学生的生理年龄是几年级，如果一个八年级学生因为转学前漏掉了五年级的知识点，引擎就会精准推送五年级的内容，确保他们彻底理解并通过后，再平稳推进。
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 自适应学习引擎难度调节机制
accDescr: 根据学生正确率在过易、心流区和过难之间动态调节
A["题目流推送"] --> B{"正确率判定"}
B -->|"100% 过于简单"| C["加速推进难度"]
B -->|"80% - 85% 黄金心流区"| D["保持自适应题目流"]
B -->|"< 66% 濒临挫败"| E["自动补充脚手架辅导课"]
E --> A
C --> A
D --> A
```
该系统的精髓在于借鉴了电子游戏的设计理念，将学生的答题正确率严格控制在 80% 到 85% 的“黄金区间”。如果正确率达到 100%，意味着内容太简单，学生只是在机械背诵旧知识，根本学不到新东西；但如果正确率跌破三分之二（约 66%），任何游戏设计师都会明白，玩家频繁受挫就会彻底放弃。传统面对 30 个学生的班级教师绝不可能做到按人定制，而学习引擎却能持续提供动态调整的题库：难度过高时插入脚手架（scaffolding）辅助课程帮其追赶，过于简单时则快速跳级。当学生发现自己能够高标准地攻克学业任务，而不是在落后中挣扎时，学习就变成了令人兴奋的成就感来源。
- **挫败阈值**：正确率低于三分之二（< 66%）会导致学生心理脱节并彻底放弃学习。
- **黄金心流区**：将题目正确率锁定在 80% 至 85%，兼顾挑战性与成就感。
- **动态调节机制**：通过自动插入脚手架课程（scaffolding lessons）补齐知识断层，或加速跳过已掌握内容。
---
### [13:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=787s) 重塑大学教育：顶级高校实习生的 AI 时代恐慌
Gagan Biyani 谈到 Alpha School 的模式给 Horowitz Andreessen Academy（HAA）带来的巨大启发。他指出，如果能够用现代工具重构现代教育体系，学生不仅能获得高出传统体系 10 倍的人脉网络，更能养成强大的自主能动性（high agency）和迎难而上的能力。全美顶尖大学之所以难以做到这点，根源在于传统高校管理层将 90% 的精力花在了周遭的成年人（教职员、官僚机构）身上，极度缺乏以学生为中心的思维。
作为 HAA 的投资人与顾问，Joe Liemandt 明确表示大学同样亟待彻底重塑。为了探究现状，Alpha 在夏季招募了 70 多名来自斯坦福（Stanford）、麻省理工（MIT）以及德克萨斯大学（UT）的学生作为实习生。当 Joe 询问他们中有多少人认为所在的高校让自己为毕业后的真实世界做好了准备时，全场竟然只有一名学生举手。面对 Joe 的震惊，这群天之骄子吐露了内心的巨大恐慌：他们寒窗苦读 12 年才考入顶级名校，如今却发现由于 AI 的迅猛发展，原本留给应届生起步的一至二年级初级岗位正在大面积消失，传统的名校光环已无法提供安全感。
在 Alpha 实习期间，这些大学生展现了惊人的自驱力。他们每周工作超过 80 个小时，自主立项研发一款可在本地设备上离线运行的轻量级开源教育小语言模型（SLM），旨在让全球每一个主权实体都能拥有完全免费的专属 AI 教育工具。学生们深入钻研学习理论、编写底层架构，并准备正式发表学术论文。这次经历让他们深刻意识到，大学本该是大家聚在一起攻克硬核问题、对世界产生实质性影响的熔炉。正如 Joe Liemandt 引述实习生们的切身心声：
> “我们吓坏了，我们真的不觉得在大学里做好了准备，我们苦读了十二年才考进这些顶尖名校，可现在我们非常害怕毕业时根本不会再有过去那种入门级工作了。”
- **名校调研样本**：来自斯坦福大学、麻省理工学院、德州大学的 70 余名顶尖本科实习生。
- **就业信心崩塌**：仅有 1 名名校实习生认为大学课程能让自己适应毕业后的真实世界工作。
- **超高强度实战**：实习生自发每周工作 80 小时，开发专为本地设备定制的开源轻量级教育小语言模型（SLM），并推动研究论文的正式发表。
### [17:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1077s) 真正的学习靠动手造物，而非死磕教科书
Joe Liemandt 与 Gagan Biyani 探讨了传统名校课堂与真实实践之间的巨大脱节。在谈及奥斯汀为期一周、长达 80 小时的沉浸式实习项目时，Gagan 惊讶地发现学生们不仅在实操，还在进行深度的学术“学习”，但他推测 Joe 并没有给他们布置任何死板的教科书。Joe 证实了这一点：学生们完全没有教科书，而是为了亲手构建一个 LLM（大语言模型）而自主进行所有科研调查。他们一头扎进学习科学，研究团队内部被称为“Brain Lift”的数据结构，夜以继日地解决硬核问题。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 构建驱动学习流程图
accDescr: 展示学生从动手造物动机出发，主动钻研前沿学术知识，最终转化为真实世界生产力的循环过程。
subgraph S1["核心内在驱动力"]
A["18岁学生的真实动机<br/>（打造有用产品 / 创造收入 / 获得岗位）"]
end
subgraph S2["自主研究与探索"]
B["自驱动攻关学术理论<br/>（深入学习科学 / 脑力结构数据）"]
C["技术工程实战<br/>（自主攻关构建 LLM 系统）"]
end
subgraph S3["落地闭环"]
D["具备真实生产力与适应力的造物者（Builder）"]
end
A --> B
B --> C
C --> D
```
这种学习强度完全不亚于 MIT、斯坦福或得克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校（UT Austin）的高难度课程，但本质区别在于其目标不是被动通过考试，而是解决真实问题。Gagan 指出，真正的学习有 90% 取决于动机。一个 18 岁的年轻人最强烈的动力并非坐在教室里背理论，而是打造能被大众使用的产品、创造真实收入或争取到一份优秀的工作。Gagan 回忆自己当年在大学就觉得学不到东西，上课出勤率仅有一半左右，而现在的名校课堂到课率甚至远低于 10%，学生普遍对陈旧的授课模式失去兴趣，重构教育范式迫在眉睫。
- 学生自主研发 LLM 涉及认知科学与复杂数据结构，完全自驱完成。
- 传统名校基础课出勤率暴跌，学生在课堂上普遍走神或根本不出席。
- 学习的 90% 由动机驱动，脱离实际造物的被动灌输无法激发年轻人。
> “在 18 岁的时候，你的动力来自于打造人们会去使用的东西。你的动力来自于收入、来自于找到一份工作诸如此类的事。那么，为什么不让整套学习体验都由这种动力来驱动，并利用这种动力去真正学到东西呢？” —— Gagan Biyani
---
### [20:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1233s) 大学产品的拆解：崩溃的大课与真正有价值的“副产品”
Joe Liemandt 分享了 Alpha 高中第一届毕业生升入大学后的真实反馈。在他们大一寒假返乡时，Joe 召集这些学生询问大学适应情况。这批学生在大学里如鱼得水，全都拿到了 4.0 的满分绩点，但他们毫不留情地抨击大学体系：那些容纳数百人的 100 号段阶梯大课（Hundred-series lecture classes）纯粹是在浪费生命。有五名毕业生甚至直接向大学校报撰写专栏文章，痛批这种教学形式就是一场“彻头彻尾的骗局”——台下的学生不是在漫无目的地刷 TikTok，就是在笔记本电脑上摸鱼，教授照本宣科，根本没有教学互动。
相反，学生们真正喜欢的，是高密度的小型研讨会（Small group seminars）、学生社团以及各种自发组织的实践活动。Joe 分析指出，大学本质上是一个“产品打包组合（Bundle of products）”。然而荒谬的现实在于：大学官方正式收费并提供的核心产品恰恰是那套正在崩溃、占用学生 50% 时间的课堂教学；而学生真正受用的人脉网络、社团生态和同伴成长，几乎全靠学生自发构建。
Joe 以自己从斯坦福大学退学的亲身经历佐证了这一点。他在斯坦福的几年时光之所以弥足珍贵，完全不在于枯燥的阶梯大课，而在于周遭的环境与机遇：史蒂夫·乔布斯（Steve Jobs）来校做演讲，同侪能直接拿到 NeXT 的工作；升阳电脑（Sun Microsystems）的创始人比尔·乔伊（Bill Joy）和斯科特·麦克尼利（Scott McNealy）会来到校园交流，学生们甚至能和他们共进午餐。正是与志同道合的朋友共同开发项目、亲身体验真实世界的商业脉搏，才孕育了他日后创立的商业帝国。
> “大学本质上是一个产品打包组合，对吧？他们喜欢那个组合包，但是真正的学术部分——比如那些大型阶梯课之类的——在他们看来完全应该被扫进垃圾堆。” —— Joe Liemandt
---
### [22:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1364s) 精英家长的剧变：从追逐常春藤到寻找 AI 时代的替代路径
当话题转向决定择校的关键决策者——家长时，Joe 透露了他在与数以万计的 K-12 阶段家长沟通中所目睹的惊人认知转变。过去，家长们普遍执着于从幼儿园直升常春藤盟校的传统精英路线；如今，越来越多的常春藤或斯坦福毕业生家长反而开始坚决摒弃这条老路。这些自身拥有顶级名校背景的家长深知，传统教育培养出的技能早已无法适应未来十几年后的世界，他们急切地向创新教育机构寻求替代方案，甚至直言：“如果你们给我的还是走向常春藤的老路，我就不需要你们的 K-12 学校。”
Joe 指出，家长的态度在不同学龄阶段呈现出鲜明的分水岭：
1. **高年级家长（11 至 12 年级）**：往往处于放弃全面变革的心态。他们已经在这条传统赛道上拼杀了十几年，如同“站在五码线前”，不愿在临门一脚时掀翻全盘计划，只求让孩子稳妥拿到大学文凭。
2. **低年级家长（幼儿园到小学阶段）**：由于需要展望孩子未来 12 年乃至更久的人生周期，他们深刻意识到旧轨道已然坍塌，对颠覆性教育方案的接受度与渴望程度极高。
因此，像 Horowitz Andreessen Academy 这样的新型大学在招生时面临着双重任务：一方面，年轻一代学生天生就能敏锐感知到新教育模式的优越性，需求将呈现爆发式增长；另一方面，机构必须向家长展开一场深度认知说服，向他们证明一种他们自己从未亲身体验过的道路才是通往未来的正确方向。
> “我自身毕业于常春藤盟校，但这绝不适合我的孩子。我不认为那能让他做好面对未来的准备。如果你给我的就是那套东西，那我根本不想要你的 K-12 学校。” —— Joe Liemandt（引述名校背景家长的原话）
---
### [25:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1505s) 1910 年的拖拉机革命与今日 AI：教育重塑的历史先例
为了让现代家长理解为何必须押注于未知的全新教育模式，Joe 引用了 1910 年代美国农业与教育转型的深刻历史先例。在 1910 年，全美 90% 的人口仅拥有初中（八年级）受教育水平，全国几乎不存在现代意义上的高中，超过 30% 的美国劳动力是农民，世世代代依靠土地为生。
这一格局在凯斯公司（Case）的现代拖拉机驶入农田时被彻底打破。当时的拖拉机广告语与今天 Anthropic 等 AI 公司的宣传惊人相似——“一台机器干完 50 个程序员的活”变成了“一台拖拉机干完 50 个农工的活”。美国社会瞬间意识到，30% 的农业岗位即将永久消失，祖辈延续的生存之道荡然无存。面对生存危机，全美 13 万个城镇的居民做出了非凡抉择：他们集体投票支持提高自身税收，全力兴建并资助一种他们从未经历过的全新教育——高中体系。那些仅有八年级文凭的农村父辈，倾尽财力让下一代接受全新教育，最终奠定了美国过去一百年工业繁荣的人才基石。
| 历史维度 | 1910 年农业自动化转型 | 当代 AI 驱动的教育范式变革 |
|:--- |:--- |:--- |
| **技术催化剂** | 现代拖拉机（如 Case 拖拉机）普及 | 人工智能与大语言模型（LLM）爆发 |
| **被替代劳动力** | 替代 50 名农工 / 30% 农业岗位消失 | 替代基础脑力劳动 / 传统初级白领岗位萎缩 |
| **旧有受教育背景** | 90% 人口仅接受过八年级教育 | 传统名校文凭与单向大课讲授模式 |
| **社会应对机制** | 13 万城镇自主增税创办高中教育体制 | 抛弃旧式填鸭教育，开创基于造物与实践的新型学院 |
| **核心家长期望** | 尽管自己从未上过高中，仍全力支持下一代转型 | 尽管自己是传统常春藤受益者，仍清醒探索全新路线 |
Joe 强调，今天的精英大学毕业生在面对 AI 时感受到的职业恐慌，与当年面临拖拉机的农工毫无二致。一百年前适应工业时代所建立的教育制度已经完成了它的历史使命。如今教育创业者必须承担起当年乡村布道者的角色，说服心存疑虑的父母：即便眼前的新型教育与家长昔日的升学经验截然不同，它却是孩子在未来智能社会立足繁荣的唯一途径。
> “他们给从未见过的全新教育提供资金，他们从未见过高中课程，自己也从未上过高中，对吧？他们只有八年级文化，但他们清楚地知道，自己必须做一些与自身背景完全不同的事情。” —— Joe Liemandt
### [27:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1635s) 破局先锋：创新教育的采用曲线与冷启动困境
在探讨学生为何要冒风险加入新创办的大学（Horowitz Andreessen Academy）时，Joe Liemandt 指出自己在 K-12 阶段已经深耕了四年，教育变革的本质同样遵循典型的新技术采用曲线。学校在起步阶段并不需要争取所有人，而只需锁定那些深刻意识到现有体制早已崩塌的家庭。他回忆道，自己的两个女儿在读八年级时，身边几乎所有人都警告她们：如果去读 Alpha School 这种非传统学校，未来绝不可能考上大学，必须走传统升学路线。然而四年之后，当初选择 Alpha 高中部与留在传统名校的家庭之间形成了极其鲜明的对照——那些当初认为体制内才是“安全道路”、嘲笑 Alpha 离经叛道的家庭，眼看着 Alpha 的学生全面茁壮成长，如今纷纷陷入巨大的悔恨之中。
Joe 坦言，新学校在第一年没有过往数据支撑时最难熬，但只要撑过第一年，让外界亲眼目睹学生的成长，局面就会彻底逆转。他甚至用自己的亲身经历现身说法：12年前 Mackenzie Price 和 Brian 创立 Alpha 时，Joe 本人也是保守迟钝的家长之一。他从小读天主教学校，自己的孩子也读天主教学校；即便他自己当年从大学退学、在车库里创办了独角兽企业，他依然对“把学校开在车库里”充满了刻板偏见的抗拒，甚至当面吐槽 Mackenzie 的学校简陋古怪。结果，他足足犹豫了两年才下定决心把孩子转过去，以至于到现在孩子们还在抱怨他当年行动太慢。
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 新型学校招生破局路径
accDescr: 展示从起步期少数种子家庭验证模式，到需求爆发扩展至满员校区的过程。
subgraph Phase1["冷启动阶段（种子期）"]
A["千人宣讲会筛选"] --> B["获取前 10-12 名先锋家庭"]
end
subgraph Phase2["验证与爆发（扩散期）"]
B --> C["完成第 1 年教学验证"]
C --> D["口碑效应扩散至满员（150人）"]
end
```
- **办学规模与冷启动对比**：Alpha 在全美已开设 50 个校区。一年前筹备 12 个新校区时，每场线上宣讲会（Info Session）都有上千人参加，但最初甚至连 25 个人都招不满，纽约校区开办时仅仅招到了 10 到 12 名学生。
- **验证后的爆发**：如今纽约校区已经满员至 150 人。事实证明，大众普遍需要有人率先试水，“人们只是需要有人先走第一步；一旦你迈出了第一步并且证明它行得通，需求就会呈爆发式飙升。”
- **Joe Liemandt 的核心断言**：“我认为你必须熬过第一年，因为你没有任何数据。但只要一年过去，人们就会看到学生正在茁壮成长；一旦看清这一点，对比就成立了。”（“I believe that you you have to get through the first year because you don't have any data. But one year in people are going to see that the students are thriving, right? And once you see that, then you that's the comparison.”）
---
### [31:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1863s) 磁吸营销法则：正向自我筛选与大学试错的零下行风险
谈到最早期参与者的特质，Gagan Biyani 和 Joe Liemandt 一致认为早期申请具有极强的“正向自我筛选”（Positive Self-selection）效应，这与当年的泰尔奖学金（Thiel Fellowship）如出一辙——敢于在缺乏社会背书时加入的孩子与家长，都拥有强大的信念勇气与卓越才智。Joe 强调办学必须贯彻“磁吸营销”（Magnet Marketing）逻辑：不仅要吸引对的人，更要坚决排斥错的人。凡是那些在宣讲会上抱怨“我不喜欢 AI”、“我反感屏幕时间”的落后迟钝型家长，Alpha 会明确劝退，因为学校在初创期必然会遭遇磕磕绊绊，这类缺乏信心的家长不仅承受不住波动，还会对社区产生破坏。相反，清晰定义产品边界并凝聚共识，初创家庭就会成为学校最大的护城河与核心资产。
Gagan 随后指出，Horowitz Andreessen Academy（HAA）吸取了这一经验，将招生策略定为“严格把控门槛，而非追求班级规模”。与初升高阶段不能耽误八年级学业不同，HAA 在大学层面的制度设计极大降低了风险：第一年实行免学费政策，且只设立一年的探索项目。即便学生之后想回归主流，也随时可以重返大学体制、办理延期入学或重新申请。Joe 极其赞同这一设计，并向犹豫不决的家长呼吁：如果孩子真心渴望尝试，就该全力放手支持，因为在这类高浓度实践中，哪怕最终没有成功，也必将是孩子一生中最宝贵的学习历程。
- **产品边界定义**：学校必须清晰传达“我们是什么，我们不是什么”。对于排斥科技工具的家长，绝不应为了凑人数而妥协。
- **大学阶段试错成本的对比**：高中升学试错具有不可逆的恐慌感，但大学间隔一年（Gap Year）在机制上“毫无下行风险”（No downside），既不关闭主流选择通道，又能换取极高的自驱力锤炼。
- **Gagan Biyani 关于生源定位的判断**：“这是那种你不会希望大多数人都想要的事物；你只想要那些真正渴望它的人来做这件事。”（“This is the type of thing where you don't want most people to want it. You want the people who really want it to do it.”）
---
### [34:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2074s) 逃离被动规训：从叛逆退学生到百小时奋斗的转变
三人随后探讨了传统教育体系最令人窒息的核心痛点：强迫学生在毫无认同感（Buy-in）的情况下机械服从。Gagan 回忆道，自己在 13 至 15 岁期间独立意识全面萌芽，逐渐看穿了体制的“皇帝新衣”，发现很多老师根本不会教数学，现行的灌输也非最佳教学法，却被迫为了愚蠢的考试而埋头刷题。Alpha 与 HAA 的核心教学哲学，正是通过“以学生为中心”的个性化设计，彻底消除这种强加意志带来的对抗与叛逆，用深度共鸣唤醒自驱力。
为了佐证这一观点，Joe 分享了自己极具戏剧性的个人成长史。在中小学阶段，他是一个经常惹祸、逃课的刺头，只花了极少的时间应付课业并勉强混入斯坦福大学，随后便果断选择退学创业。当年退学消息传出时，他的父亲愤怒至极，甚至在接受《福布斯》（Forbes）采访时公开痛斥“我儿子是个蠢货（Moron）”。然而几年之后，当父亲亲眼看到退学后的 Joe 充满激情地投入创业，每周疯狂工作 100 个小时，困了就直接睡在办公室办公桌底下时，态度发生了 180 度大转弯。父亲不得不当面向他承认，当年的判断完全错了，退学创业其实是他这辈子做过的最正确的决定。
- **教学理念共识**：传统教育将 90% 的精力花在管束与服从上，而新式教育的核心是将系统围绕学生重构，依靠学生的主观认同感激发潜能。
- **关于退学的心态反转**：高自驱的个体在被动接受规训时表现为消极懈怠，一旦进入自主掌控的高挑战领域，往往能爆发出远超常人的拼搏耐力。
- **Gagan Biyani 关于厌恶传统学校的剖析**：“对我来说，最让我厌恶的，就是我被迫去做那些我自己根本不认同的事情。”（“And for me, it was that I was being forced to do things that I was not bought into.”）
### [36:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2187s) 当孩子做热爱且艰难的事情时：一个月内的彻底蜕变
Joe Liemandt 回忆起父亲当年对自己的担忧：在学业时期，父亲曾一度害怕他会变成一个懒散无用的人，甚至自责是否是自己教育失败；但当看到 Joe 真正做起热爱的事情并全情投入时，父亲才恍然大悟。Joe 指出，这也正是 Alpha School 能够建立一所“让孩子们爱到胜过放假”的学校的原因：将学生与他们热爱的事物深度绑定。许多家长常常惊呼“我的孩子在一个月内彻底变了样”，根本原因就在于学校引导他们去主动挑战他们自己渴望完成的“硬核难事（hard things）”。
这种转变之所以立竿见影，是因为优秀的孩子并不想在普通学校里混日子度日。Alpha School 在高中阶段设立了一个“世界学校（World School）”项目，安排学生赴非洲进行为期一年的公益服务。每位学生在出发前都必须白纸黑字签署一份协议，明确写着：“我明白这将是我人生中最艰难的一年。”令人欣喜的是，所有学生都毫不犹豫地签字，并对即将面临的严酷挑战感到无比兴奋。Gagan Biyani 开玩笑补充道，自己也在非洲待过不少时间，如果想让挑战加倍残酷，不妨把孩子们送去印度或斯里兰卡。
- Alpha 学生的蜕变核心在于主动选择难度极高的任务，而非被动接受常规应试灌输。
- 参加非洲项目的学生必须签署认可这是“人生最艰难一年”的自愿承诺书。
- Joe Liemandt 总结这种驱动力时强调：“It's because we have them doing hard things that they want to do, right? And all of a sudden it does change and it's that quick.”
---
### [38:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2295s) 真实世界与象牙塔的断层：5000 美元旅行津贴与“好学生陷阱”
Gagan Biyani 透露，Horowitz Andreessen Academy（HAA）已经为每位入学的大学生预留了 5,000 美元的专属旅行津贴。校方不会强行干预资金用途，但 Gagan 个人的期望是鼓励学生独自背包前往人均 GDP 低于 20,000 美元的国家。置身于完全陌生且资源有限的真实环境中，能够极大地锤炼年轻人的自我认知与世界观，而这种穿透现实的眼界日后也将在商业世界中产生不可估量的价值。
对话随即切入对传统“优等生陷阱”的尖锐剖析。Gagan 和 Joe 谈到，现实中存在两类截然不同的人：一类是像他们年轻时那样，在学校里拿不到 4.0 满绩，甚至被老师视作“懒散”，但一旦找到心之所向，就能毫不犹豫每周工作 100 个小时；另一类则是体制内的满分学霸，只要移除了条条框框的指令体系，他们就暴露出从未培养过内在动机与热爱的软肋，一旦踏入现实职场便手足无措。传统大学将这些核心素质推给可选的学生社团，而新型教育则致力于在大学课程的正中央为学生建立直面自驱力与现实世界的空间。
- Horowitz Andreessen Academy 为每位学生提供 5,000 美元津贴，鼓励前往人均 GDP 低于 20,000 美元的地区独旅。
- 缺乏内在热情的应试高分者在脱离外部规则后，往往难以适应不确定的工作环境。
- Gagan Biyani 评价很多偏科甚至被视为懒惰的创业型人才时说：“They don't get 4.0 because they're just not bought in. But when when they find the thing, they're willing to put 100 hour weeks.”
---
### [40:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2423s) 雇主真正在意什么：被 AI 衬托出的“人类独特优势”
从用人单位的反馈来看，企业雇主普遍对应聘毕业生的实战能力深感失望。Joe Liemandt 坦言，如果当年他在创办 Trilogy 之前直接去应聘，他根本无法胜任；但当他经历了两年校外真实项目的打磨与历练后，立刻就成了一名极其优秀的候选人。Gagan Biyani 补充说明，目前雇主遭遇的痛点根本不是技术硬技能的欠缺——不是学生会不会写代码、做设计或建产品，而是普遍缺失最核心的三大素养：人际交往能力（people skills）、心智成熟度（maturity）以及系统性思维（systems thinking）。
当 AI 正在将纯粹的智力与知识测试彻底商品化时，唯有深度的实战才能训练这些非认知技能。要习得人际交往与系统思维，年轻人必须亲自参与极其复杂的人际协作系统，直接经受被拒绝、被失败打击的洗礼，在没有既定轨道的情况下自己为项目搭建结构。Joe Liemandt 指出，领导力、团队合作、能动性（agency）、责任感以及虚心接受反馈的能力，全部来自亲手做项目，绝不可能从坐在教室听讲中产生。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 传统课堂技能与 AI 时代真实技能的对比
accDescr: 对比传统课堂通过被动听讲获取的标准化智力与真实项目中培养的人类核心技能
subgraph Classroom["传统应试教育（易被 AI 替代）"]
C1["纯理论与知识记忆"]
C2["标准化 GPA 测验"]
C3["被动接受固定体系"]
end
subgraph RealWorld["项目实战历练（AI 时代不可替代的人类特质）"]
R1["人际交往与领导力"]
R2["面对失败与拒绝的心智成熟度"]
R3["从无到有构建复杂系统"]
R4["高能动性与责任担当"]
end
Classroom -->|"AI 将知识与智力商品化"| Commodity["商品化/自动化"]
RealWorld -->|"赋能雇主真正渴求的核心人才"| HighValue["高价值领袖"]
```
- 雇主最看重的关键素养是心智成熟度、沟通协调力与系统性思维，而非单纯的技术硬指标。
- 传统坐在教室听课的教学场景完全无法传授“承受拒绝”和“自建结构”的能力。
- Joe Liemandt 谈到项目制学习与传统课堂的差别时强调：“All of those skills, right? That you have to have that you can get from doing projects. Yeah. But you don't get from sitting in class.”
---
### [42:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2532s) 18 岁的超级建筑师：认知装载加速 10 倍与同伴软件革命
面对“如果今天你只有 18 岁，你会学什么”这一问题，Joe Liemandt 提出了他的核心框架——“认知装载（cognitive onload）”。在 AI 的辅助下，知识装载到人类大脑的速度提升了 10 倍。原本在传统体系下需要读完硕士才能掌握的专门领域知识，现在的年轻人只需一年甚至在高中阶段就能完全掌握。在 Alpha High，高中生们已经在利用学习科学重构 Joe 当年亲手编写的 TimeBack 软件底层代码。
但极速吸收知识只是第一步，其最终目标是为了“构建（build）”。Joe 表示，Alpha High 的高中生绝对不是对未来充满悲观的“末日论者（doomers）”，相反，他们的心态是充满征服欲的：“你们这些成年人完蛋了，我们掌握了超级力量，正冲着你们而来。”Joe 做出预测：未来两年内，大部分教育学习软件都将由学生自己为同伴编写。因为年轻人更懂得如何将学习科学与令人着迷的体验结合。例如，高中生 Austin 独自开发了一款 AP 欧洲/世界历史课程，将历史大事件融入类似 GeoGuessr 风格的游戏，并引入带有毒舌讽刺性格的 AI 和 S 级天梯榜排名，最终让学这门课的学生在 AP 考试中全部斩获 5 分满分。这些完全来自年轻一代创造力与 AI 结合的产物，是成年人团队永远无法想象并复刻的。
- AI 让学生吸纳专业知识的“认知装载”速度提升 10 倍，高中生即可达到硕士级别的领域理解。
- Alpha 高中生使用 AI 并不是为了偷懒，而是将其作为超级杠杆进行产品开发与研究。
- 实例：高中生 Austin 开发的包含毒舌 AI 与游戏化机制的 AP 历史课程，帮助班级全部学生拿到 5 分满分。
- Joe 描述 Alpha 学生的自信与底气时转述道：“If you talk to our high school kids at Alpha High, they're definitely not doomers about like AI in the future. They're like, you adults are cooked like we're coming for you and we have superpowers, right?”
### [45:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2706s) 进攻型思维：在 AI 时代追寻真正感兴趣的领域
针对“面对未来应该学什么专业才能具备韧性”的提问，Gagan Biyani 指出这个问题本身的提问方式就是错的。真正的关键不是盲目猜测哪个专业最安全，而是“我到底对什么感兴趣”。只要一个人能成为某个领域的 AI 原生代（AI-native），具体从事什么学科其实无关紧要。外界目前非常担心编程和数学等领域会被 AI 取代，但事实是，未来将会涌现出一批全新的 AI 原生代数学家和程序员。那些坚持用黑板、铅笔和草稿纸的老派学者或许会被淘汰，但真正热爱数学的新一代学生不仅会过得很好，还会做出前人根本无法想象的成就。
Gagan Biyani 强调，Horowitz Andreessen Academy（HAA）在招生筛选时特别排斥防御性的心态，正如他所言：“这种只想确保自己能在未来生存下来的想法，是一种非常防御性的处世方式，而我们希望你处于进攻状态。”他以自己在教育领域的创业经历为例说明：过去十五到二十年间，教育绝对算不上一个赚钱的黄金创业赛道，甚至称得上是一个极其艰难糟糕的市场，但他依然打造出了少数几个成功的案例之一。他虽然不是亿万富翁，但依然感到充实与自豪，因为只要在自己热爱的领域做到前 1%，就绝对能过得很好。
Joe Liemandt 极为赞同这种“进攻型”态度，并将其与儿童教育和性格塑造紧密联系在一起。很多人的心态是被动的，总在担忧世界会变成什么样、未来会对个人施加怎样的压力；但优秀的教育必须培养创造世界的人。Joe Liemandt 表示，Alpha School 的孩子们都会阅读马特·里德利（Matt Ridley）的《理性乐观派》（*The Rational Optimist*），从中建立起自己能够掌控未来、主动创造未来的坚定信念。教育者的核心使命，就是培养出一代能熟练掌握 AI 并满怀乐观与雄心去构建精彩未来的实干家。
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: 防御型思维与进攻型思维的对比
accDescr: 对比在 AI 时代面对未来学科选择时的消极防御路径与积极进攻路径
subgraph Defensive["防御型思维 (Defensive Mindset)"]
D1["被动提问：哪个领域最安全、不会被 AI 淘汰？"]
D2["恐惧技术冲击，固守传统工具与老旧方法"]
D3["被动承受未来世界强加的变化"]
end
subgraph Offensive["进攻型思维 (Offensive Mindset)"]
O1["主动提问：我真正热爱并对什么领域感兴趣？"]
O2["成为 AI 原生代，借助先进技术探索前沿上限"]
O3["主动创造未来，跻身该领域前 1% 的顶尖构建者"]
end
```
### [48:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2911s) Founders School：高中赚到 100 万美元净利润，否则全额退费
针对高中生的培养，Joe Liemandt 介绍了他们创立的特色创业高中——Founders School。在 Alpha School 的综合生活技能体系中，“创业与财商”占据着极为核心的位置。随着 AI 推动生产力爆发，未来的财富 500 强企业规模可能会大幅缩减，从而引发前所未有的创业大爆发。然而传统教育体系几乎完全忽略了创业技能的传授。Alpha 从幼儿园阶段就介入财商教育，通过校内专属货币“Alphas”，教导孩子们赚钱、储蓄、消费、投资和捐赠的基本逻辑。
到了高中阶段，那些渴望把高中时光用来亲自做业务的学生便会进入 Founders School。Joe Liemandt 提出了一个令家长难以置信的承诺：“我们保证你在高中期间创立一家赚取 100 万美元净利润的企业，否则退还所有学费。”他坚信创业不是凭空降临的灵感闪电，而是一套可以被系统化拆解、稳定教授的技能框架。学校设计了清晰的阶梯式推进路径（Scaffolding）：
- 第一步：赚取 100 美元并掌握基础交易技能
- 第二步：进阶赚取 1,000 美元
- 第三步：拓展至 10,000 美元与 100,000 美元
- 最终目标：达成 1,000,000 美元净利润
该项目自 8 月正式开学仅几个月，部分高一新生的冲刺速度就彻底打乱了原定教学节奏。学生们在短短数月内飞速跨越各个盈利层级，甚至让教师感慨自己准备的课程储备都要被新生提前耗尽，而学生们已经在筹划达成百万目标后启动下一个更大的商业项目。
- **阶梯式盈利目标**：100 美元 $\to$ 1,000 美元 $\to$ 10,000 美元 $\to$ 100,000 美元 $\to$ 1,000,000 美元
- **学费退款保障**：高中期间未能实现 100 万美元净利润则全额退费
### [51:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3064s) 跌落神坛的行业巨擘：高中生电话冷启动 Jensen Huang 的教训
除了具体技能，人脉网络与关系构建也是商业教育中不可或缺的板块。Joe Liemandt 回忆自己在斯坦福大学求学时的感悟：当年学校最神奇的地方在于，那些常常来校演讲的顶尖名流，真正走到面前交流时，你会发现对方其实也是活生生的普通人。这种接触会破除对权威的光环崇拜，让年轻学生在那种初生牛犊不怕虎的傲气中产生“我也能做到”的自信。
为了给高中生建立这种底层视野，Founders School 鼓励学生直接向行业巨头进行冷接触（Cold Call）。学校一位 14 岁的高中生曾直接拨通了英伟达（NVIDIA）CEO 黄仁勋（Jensen Huang）的电话。令人意想不到的是，黄仁勋不仅回了电话，发现对方是个孩子后还慷慨给予了他 90 秒的陈述时间。展示结束后，黄仁勋给出了一段极其硬核的专业复盘反馈：“你刚才向我提的所有资格审查类问题，本可以通过事前调研或者向我公司里的其他人询问来获得答案。你刚刚把宝贵的沟通机会完全浪费掉了，你本应该做好充分的功课，那样的沟通效果会好得多。”
虽然这通电话在沟通准备上被黄仁勋打了个“不及格”，但敢于出击的魄力得到了肯定。这段经历成为了这名学生乃至整所学校最珍贵的实战教材。Gagan Biyani 指出，不仅是 Erik Torenberg 擅长为 HAA 搭建跨学科的人脉网络，行业内许多功成名就的顶尖人物也都十分乐意为下一代投入时间，为 Founders School 担任导师分享经验。
Erik Torenberg 补充提到，Max Levchin 几周前做客节目时曾谈到，自己之所以能树立如此宏大的野心，正是因为早年与埃隆·马斯克（Elon Musk）、里德·霍夫曼（Reid Hoffman）以及大卫·萨克斯（David Sacks）并肩作战，亲眼目睹了这些传奇人物在创业起伏中同样会经历挫折和挣扎，彼此并没有本质的区别。HAA 和 Founders School 邀请黄仁勋、山姆·奥特曼（Sam Altman）以及萨提亚·纳德拉（Satya Nadella）这类领袖面对面分享真实的实战伤疤与创业历程，正是为了将这种毫无保留的野心深度注入年轻一代的心中。
### [54:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3268s) 提高学生的雄心与重塑教育的可能
对话临近尾声时，嘉宾们探讨了教育最核心的使命——激发并拔高学生的志向。Joe Liemandt 引用了经济学家泰勒·考恩（Tyler Cowen）的著名观点，强调教育者的终极价值并不在于灌输死板的知识，而在于改变学生对自身潜力的认知。在 Alpha School，这种理念被深植于日常的教学与文化中。无论是基础教育还是高等教育，学校在环境设计、人才选拔和文化塑造上的核心目的，都是为了让年轻人看到自己未来在世界上所能企及的高度。正如 Joe Liemandt 所指出的那样：“I think it was Tyler Cowen who's like the number one thing a teacher can do is raise a student's ambition for themselves, right we try to live that at Alpha you know days and I believe that's very much when you sit here is that it's intentionally in your guys design of the people you're getting the culture you're building that you're going to be raising their ambition for what they can do in life.”
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: 教育模式对学生雄心的提升路径
accDescr: 展示从挑选人才与文化建设到拔高学生自我抱负，最终释放潜力的正向循环
subgraph Design["教育设计与环境构建"]
A["精心挑选的同伴群体"] --> B["挑战与赋能的校园文化"]
end
subgraph Impact["核心使命"]
B --> C["激发并提高学生的个人抱负"]
end
subgraph Outcome["释放潜能"]
C --> D["实现超越传统预期的真实成就"]
end
```
Erik Torenberg 随后总结指出，尽管 K-12 阶段与大学阶段存在诸多差异，但两者面对的行业现实却高度一致：自 1910 年代以来的过去一百年里，教育领域几乎没有发生过颠覆性的变革，尤其是在高等教育层面，鲜有真正破局的新进入者。现在，无论是重塑 K-12 的 Alpha School，还是探索新型大学教育的 Horowitz Andreessen Academy，大家共同做的事情都是在打破旧有教条，将教育的可能性推向全新的高度。最后，Joe Liemandt 满怀信心地表示，年轻人蕴藏着远超所有人预期的能量，伴随着新型教育理念与实践的落地，这种潜能必将被推向全新的水平：“Kids are awesome. They can do way more than all of us expect and I believe that coming out of yours, you're going to just raise that to the next level.”
- 泰勒·考恩（Tyler Cowen）的教育核心原则：教师能为学生做的第一要务，是提升他们对自我的雄心与期望值。
- 百年未变的教育格局：自 1910 年以来的一个多世纪里，教育模式缺乏实质性的颠覆，大学领域更是极度缺乏强有力的全新破局者。
- 对年轻一代的共同信念：青少年与大学生的真实潜能远超成年人与传统体系的常规预期，创新的教育生态正在重新定义“可能”的边界。
## Notable quotes
> [06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=370s) The key to your child's happiness is high standards. — Joe Liemandt
> [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=0s) I want this next generation to be the ones who are optimistically capable with AI and saying, we're going to build an awesome future. — Joe Liemandt
> [06:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=370s) Are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation? — Joe Liemandt
> [45:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2706s) 这种只想确保自己能在未来生存下来的想法，是一种非常防御性的处世方式，而我们希望你处于进攻状态。 — Gagan Biyani
> [40:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=2423s) All of those skills, right? That you have to have that you can get from doing projects. Yeah. But you don't get from sitting in class. — Joe Liemandt
> [31:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1863s) This is the type of thing where you don't want most people to want it. You want the people who really want it to do it. — Gagan Biyani
> [20:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=1233s) 大学本质上是一个产品打包组合，对吧？他们喜欢那个组合包，但是真正的学术部分——比如那些大型阶梯课之类的——在他们看来完全应该被扫进垃圾堆。 — Joe Liemandt
> [54:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw&t=3268s) Kids are awesome. They can do way more than all of us expect and I believe that coming out of yours, you're going to just raise that to the next level. — Joe Liemandt
## Mentioned
Joe Liemandt, Gagan Biyani, Erik Torenberg, Mackenzie Price, Brian, Austin, Steve Jobs, Bill Joy, Scott McNealy, Tyler Cowen, Matt Ridley, Jensen Huang, Sam Altman, Satya Nadella, Max Levchin, Elon Musk, Reid Hoffman, David Sacks, Alpha School, Horowitz Andreessen Academy, Founders School, Trilogy, Case, Anthropic, NVIDIA, NeXT, Sun Microsystems, Stanford University, MIT, The University of Texas at Austin, The Wharton School, Forbes, TimeBack, GeoGuessr, The Rational Optimist
## Video description
What should school look like if AI can help students learn dramatically faster? Alpha School principal Joe Liemandt argues the answer isn’t to fill the extra time with more academics, but to redesign school around the skills traditional classrooms struggle to teach: agency, teamwork, entrepreneurship, communication, and doing hard things.
Joe joins Erik Torenberg and Horowitz Andreessen Academy co-founder Gagan Biyani to discuss Alpha’s model, where students spend two hours a day on core academics and the rest developing real-world skills through projects. They explore what that approach can teach higher education, why motivation may matter more than curriculum, and how HAA is applying similar principles to college-age students by putting building, relationships, and real-world experience at the center of the learning experience.
They also discuss what parents need to believe before choosing a new educational model, why Joe expects AI to drive an explosion in entrepreneurship, and why the most important question for students may not be which field is safest from AI, but what they care enough about to build.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:40 How Alpha Teaches Kids 10x Faster
6:44 Why Kids Love School More Than Vacation
10:40 The 85% Rule That Keeps Kids Engaged
15:14 Why This Summer's Interns Are Terrified
23:01 Why Ivy League Parents Are Switching
27:21 You Just Need Someone to Go First
35:37 "My Son's a Moron": Joe's Dropout Story
42:12 What You'd Study If You Were 18 Today
48:31 Founders School: Earn $1M or Get Tuition Back
Resources:
Learn more about Horowitz Andreessen Academy: https://www.theacademysf.com/
Learn more about Alpha School: https://alpha.school/joe-liemandt-and-the-future-of-education/
Follow Joe Liemandt on X: https://x.com/jliemandt
Follow Gagan Biyani: on X https://x.com/gaganbiyani
Follow Erik Torenberg on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg
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[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4u2FoIm3pw)
Source quotes
[6:10] Joe Liemandt: The key to your child's happiness is high standards.
[0:00] Joe Liemandt: I want this next generation to be the ones who are optimistically capable with AI and saying, we're going to build an awesome future.
[6:10] Joe Liemandt: Are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation?
[45:06] Gagan Biyani: 这种只想确保自己能在未来生存下来的想法，是一种非常防御性的处世方式，而我们希望你处于进攻状态。
[40:23] Joe Liemandt: All of those skills, right? That you have to have that you can get from doing projects. Yeah. But you don't get from sitting in class.
[31:03] Gagan Biyani: This is the type of thing where you don't want most people to want it. You want the people who really want it to do it.
[20:33] Joe Liemandt: 大学本质上是一个产品打包组合，对吧？他们喜欢那个组合包，但是真正的学术部分——比如那些大型阶梯课之类的——在他们看来完全应该被扫进垃圾堆。
[54:28] Joe Liemandt: Kids are awesome. They can do way more than all of us expect and I believe that coming out of yours, you're going to just raise that to the next level.
Source quotes
[6:10] Joe Liemandt: The key to your child's happiness is high standards. Kids want to go do hard things, right? They love to do hard things and they love to do hard things with their friends.
[54:28] Joe Liemandt: the number one thing a teacher can do is raise a student's ambition for themselves.
[0:00] Joe Liemandt: I believe now every school—and it doesn't matter, K-12, university—has to say: if the traditional way and the traditional curriculum is now 10 times faster, what do you do with the rest of the day?
Original transcript
[0:00] Are you willing to redesign your school
[0:02] day so kids love it more than vacation?
[0:03] With cognitive science and learning
[0:05] science, plus the advent of LLMs, you
[0:07] can build a learning engine that teaches
[0:09] kids 10 times faster. The shift that I
[0:12] think you've been able to make is the
[0:13] believability of it. Pretty soon, people
[0:15] are going to ask, why would we ever do
[0:17] it any other way?
[0:18] >> I want this next generation to be the
[0:20] ones who are optimistically capable with
[0:22] AI and saying, we're going to build an
[0:25] awesome future. That's what our job as
[0:26] educators are, is to go build that
[0:29] world. What would you say to the parent
[0:30] who's saying, "I'm sending my kid to Ivy
[0:33] League school. I know it's not perfect,
[0:36] but this is a new institution. Why
[0:38] should I take a risk?"
[0:39] >> So,
[0:41] Joe, welcome to the podcast.
[0:43] >> Thank you very much.
[0:44] >> So, we've had the luxury of spending
[0:46] some time together this year and touring
[0:48] the schools and what you've built with
[0:50] Alpha is just incredible and it's
[0:51] inspired us at HA. We're grateful to
[0:53] have your your involvement. And for for
[0:55] people who are unfamiliar, what why
[0:57] don't you just briefly describe what you
[0:58] think of as this the central innovations
[1:00] or what you've really br to to the space
[1:02] with uh with Alpha.
[1:04] >> Sure. So, we're reinventing how K12
[1:07] school is um uh you know the the school
[1:10] day, right? How kids spend their six or
[1:13] seven hours that they're in class um uh
[1:16] or in a school building. What is that
[1:18] like? And sort of the the first part
[1:20] that you have to understand and buy into
[1:23] is that uh you know instructional design
[1:26] and delivery hasn't changed for a
[1:28] hundred years right you throw a teacher
[1:30] in front of the classroom and what's the
[1:32] right way to do this and now if you look
[1:35] you know over the last couple decades
[1:37] with cognitive science and learning
[1:39] science plus the advent of LLMs you can
[1:42] build a learning engine that teaches
[1:44] kids 10 times faster right and so as
[1:47] soon as you have that ability where kids
[1:49] can learn 10 times faster than they
[1:51] could the last hundred years with a
[1:52] teacher in front of a classroom model.
[1:54] >> The question is what do you do with it?
[1:56] And so that's what we're doing at Alpha,
[1:58] which is how do you reinvent the school
[1:59] day? And so, you know, in our model, um,
[2:02] you know, we make three commitments to
[2:04] the kids, which the first is they love
[2:06] school. Um, and I just got the surveys
[2:09] back uh last week. 90ome% of our kids
[2:11] say, "I love school." 50% of the kids at
[2:14] the school said, "I would rather go to
[2:17] school than go on vacation." I actually
[2:19] have one campus where it's at 65% of the
[2:21] kids are like, you know, uh, I'd rather
[2:24] go to school than vacation. Um, and so,
[2:26] you know, build a school where kids love
[2:28] it if you're going to be there for 12
[2:29] years. But then the second part with
[2:31] this engine, what we do is the kids
[2:33] learn twice as much in 2 hours a day as
[2:37] sitting in class for six and doing
[2:38] homework. And so, you know, it's it's
[2:41] two hours a day, right, of the academics
[2:44] and they learn more, which, you know, if
[2:46] you're compounding and learning twice as
[2:47] much as you would at your other school,
[2:49] right, you're going to get to top 1%,
[2:51] you know, sort of no matter where you
[2:52] start given time.
[2:54] >> And so, the kids crush it and all, you
[2:55] know, the best on standardized tests
[2:57] were the best academic performing
[2:58] school.
[2:59] >> And then the second and the sort of the
[3:01] third commitment is well, what would you
[3:03] do the rest of the day? And I think
[3:04] that's a whole thing of what we're
[3:06] talking about now. Mhm.
[3:07] >> I believe now every school and it
[3:09] doesn't matter K12 university has to say
[3:11] if the traditional way and the
[3:13] traditional curriculum is now 10 times
[3:15] faster what do you do with the rest of
[3:16] the day
[3:17] >> and as a principal I can definitely tell
[3:20] you the one thing parents would hate is
[3:22] if I sent the kids home after 2 hours
[3:24] >> right you got them all day you six six
[3:26] seven hours a day right and the kids
[3:28] want to be there right and they love it
[3:30] and and you make it so it's what we do
[3:32] is it's what are all the life skills
[3:34] that we consider critical to thriving in
[3:37] the world that's coming, right? The
[3:39] world's changing, right? What do we do?
[3:41] And so we have we have five categories
[3:44] uh of life skills, leadership and
[3:46] teamwork, entrepreneurship and financial
[3:48] literacy, socialization, relationship
[3:50] building, storytelling, public speaking,
[3:53] grit, hard work, right? And so then
[3:55] you're doing projects, you know, in a
[3:57] group with all your friends with an
[3:59] adult, right, who's who's writing them.
[4:01] And that's how you spend your
[4:03] afternoons, right? The rest of the day.
[4:04] And so we've, you know, so Alpha, you
[4:07] know, we started, we had, we were just
[4:09] in Austin, then, um, you know, we added
[4:11] 12 campuses last year. We're up to 50.
[4:13] You know, demand's insane. Uh, that, you
[4:16] know, people want this this new thing.
[4:18] But I think it's, you know, we're we're
[4:20] sort of first, but everybody's going to
[4:22] have to look at this. That is, you know,
[4:24] today no one believes, oh, does a 2-hour
[4:26] work and we have to get scale and and
[4:28] more proof points. But once you realize,
[4:30] wow, kids could learn, you know,
[4:32] everything they need to in 2 hours.
[4:33] >> Yeah. every family, you know, every head
[4:36] of school, everybody, every, you know,
[4:38] um, education minister around the world
[4:40] is going to say, "How do we rebuild the
[4:42] school day, right, for the next hundred
[4:44] years, because we don't need to do it
[4:45] like we did the last hundred?"
[4:47] >> Yeah. I I remember visiting Alpha 6
[4:50] years ago. Um, this is before you were
[4:52] full-time on it. And I immediately got
[4:55] it because I've been in learning science
[4:57] and sort of education for for 15 to 20
[5:00] years. But I will say that the shift
[5:03] that I think you've been able to make is
[5:04] the believability of it. And I think
[5:07] you've done a great job of figuring out
[5:08] how to show that not only does this
[5:11] work, but pretty soon people are going
[5:14] to ask, why would we ever do it any
[5:16] other way? Um, and that's really the
[5:18] brilliance of from a business
[5:20] standpoint, what you've accomplished
[5:22] over the last 5 years, I think.
[5:23] >> Yeah. I think I you know I became
[5:25] principal four years ago and my
[5:26] background is product right and
[5:28] entrepreneurship and this just needed
[5:30] sort of product packaging right which is
[5:32] how do you productize this into
[5:35] something that is understandable and
[5:37] scalable right that's the other part is
[5:39] it's really hard to scale schools how do
[5:40] you scale them to quality and so that's
[5:42] for my first three years right it was is
[5:45] how how to do that and that's actually
[5:47] one of the big benefits of you know
[5:49] bringing AI is it helps you scale um at
[5:53] at high quality. Um, you know, our
[5:55] phrase is we get better as we get
[5:56] bigger. And if you look at anything over
[5:59] the last four years, our test scores,
[6:00] customer s, you know, employ uh student
[6:04] uh happiness, the quality of the
[6:05] workshops, all of those get better every
[6:08] year because the system gets better as
[6:10] it gets bigger.
[6:10] >> Yeah, we have a number of uh, you know,
[6:12] teammates, colleagues, friends who send
[6:15] their kids off and just the Do you see
[6:17] the kids love it?
[6:19] >> What is it? And I remember you know,
[6:20] hating my you know, gay 12 experience.
[6:22] What is is it this two-hour, you know,
[6:24] sort of arrangement? Is it like what is
[6:27] it that you find is most contributing to
[6:30] kids uh loving it that other schools
[6:32] should should be adopting? And
[6:33] similarly, we were also talking off
[6:34] camera about how motivation is is
[6:37] underrated or or maybe, you know, nearly
[6:40] like one of the biggest elements in
[6:41] terms of what is separating outcomes for
[6:43] kids. How are you tackling that as well?
[6:45] Yeah, I I think the biggest thing is um
[6:47] you know, edtech historically hasn't
[6:49] done well in in schools, you know,
[6:51] hasn't had the impact uh that people
[6:53] wanted. And if you look at this learning
[6:55] engine and say, "Oh, this is like edtech
[6:57] and I'm just going to put it into a
[6:58] normal school day," it'll fail, right?
[7:00] It'll be just like everything else. And
[7:02] you know when I talk to somebody who
[7:04] hears about alpha and they hear all this
[7:06] learning engine I one question and this
[7:09] is the core of everything which is are
[7:11] you willing to redesign your school day
[7:13] so kids love it more than vacation and
[7:15] if you have a head of school who says
[7:16] that right then you're all set right but
[7:19] that that leap right and that motivation
[7:21] falls under that obviously which is if
[7:24] you are waking up and saying how am I
[7:25] going to make kids love this
[7:27] >> right that is the core of what allows us
[7:30] to do everything else and people are
[7:33] worried, you know, when they hear that
[7:35] of, oh, it's Disneyland and they're just
[7:38] running around and they're not learning
[7:39] or it's not rigorous video games or TV.
[7:41] >> Yeah. And all these things and it's
[7:42] literally just the opposite, which is,
[7:43] you know, one of the things we talk
[7:44] about is, you know, the key to your
[7:46] child's happiness is high standards.
[7:48] Kids want to go do hard things, right?
[7:51] They love to do hard things and they
[7:52] love to do hard things with their
[7:53] friends, right? If it was just playing
[7:55] video games all day, they can go do that
[7:56] at home, right? And but to sit there and
[7:58] say, "I want to do this instead of
[7:59] vacation." It's because they're doing
[8:01] challenging things with their friends
[8:03] that they love. Yeah.
[8:04] >> Um and it's and it's just it's not hard.
[8:07] Like an example like an easy example is
[8:09] you know so like teamwork right and you
[8:11] know uplifting your classmates as as a
[8:13] team. You know in traditional school
[8:16] they don't teach this right after school
[8:18] sports absolutely in America teamwork
[8:20] leadership. But in schools they don't.
[8:21] Actually most team projects in school
[8:23] group projects are terrible. One person
[8:25] does it everybody else just sits around
[8:27] right? You always remember those. They
[8:28] were terrible, right? And so you learn
[8:30] the opposite of Tabwork. You learn like
[8:32] the anti-attern. And you know, in our
[8:34] school,
[8:35] >> actually a good indication of that is,
[8:37] you know, the Wharton has an MBA
[8:38] challenge where they have a simulation
[8:40] that you take and it's go up Mount
[8:41] Everest. 50% of MBAs fail the teamwork
[8:45] >> because they never were taught teamwork
[8:46] sort of their whole, you know, stack
[8:48] through through school.
[8:49] >> We take every third grader, right, and
[8:52] we mike them up and we throw them into
[8:55] an escape room, right? and they're all
[8:57] getting through the escape room and at
[8:59] the end of it
[9:00] >> we have AI analyze the transcript what
[9:03] percent of your language right were you
[9:06] team oriented were you helping or were
[9:08] you and the answer I can I can give you
[9:10] the answer less than 20% of the language
[9:12] is uplifted fighting and pushing in my
[9:15] idea right all these different things
[9:18] and so we have an 8week right or 8week
[9:21] you know workshop for this and they go
[9:23] through it and they keep going back to
[9:24] the teamwork and to graduate right to
[9:26] pass the class, they have to get up to
[9:28] 85%.
[9:29] >> Yeah.
[9:29] >> Right. Of right. Team team behavior. And
[9:33] you know, we also show them that they
[9:35] finish the escape room three times
[9:36] faster.
[9:37] >> Yeah.
[9:37] >> Right. When you're doing team
[9:38] environment. And that's just a great fun
[9:41] way. Kids love it. It's a life skill
[9:43] that every parent's like, "Oh, that's
[9:44] the stuff I want my kids to learn."
[9:46] Yeah.
[9:46] >> And because they don't have to sit in
[9:47] class all day, they can do that. And
[9:49] then fourth and fifth grade, right? Our
[9:51] life skills curriculum is as rigorous as
[9:53] our Yeah. you know, core, you know,
[9:56] passing a physics test or a math test
[9:58] is, you know, you have to pass, you
[10:00] know, the escape room test. You know, in
[10:02] fourth and fifth grade, we actually make
[10:03] them pass the Wharton MBA challenge that
[10:05] 50% of the NBA's can't. And you take a
[10:07] fourth and fifth grader and they pass
[10:09] it, right? That back to being proud and
[10:11] excited and wanting to do it, right? You
[10:14] can engage them and teach these skills
[10:16] much younger. And I believe as we look
[10:18] at the world, you know, we haven't had
[10:20] the capability to teach kids, you know,
[10:23] all this at a much younger age. Um
[10:25] because you're sitting in class all day,
[10:26] but now that we can, of course, you
[10:28] know, we must.
[10:29] >> Yeah. So, so the reason they're they're
[10:31] enjoying is cuz they can feel themselves
[10:33] learning faster, growing faster,
[10:34] building deeper relationships, and just
[10:37] overall uh you know, that's something
[10:39] you can't get on vacation.
[10:40] >> Yeah. Well, and it's well, it's like
[10:41] that would you that escape room like
[10:43] it's it's a high bar for your parents.
[10:45] The second is to your point of what else
[10:48] kids you know kids don't like school a
[10:51] lot of ca let's talk academics versus
[10:52] life skill there's sort of two different
[10:54] different on the academic side
[10:56] >> kids don't like to do things they fail
[10:59] at that's true on academics that's true
[11:00] on anything that's why in America we
[11:02] hold kids back on sports right because
[11:04] you want to give them they're bigger
[11:05] right then all a sudden they're playing
[11:07] better and they win and then they get
[11:08] the accolades and okay right and you get
[11:11] them on that path and in academics in
[11:13] America because we're a time based
[11:15] system, right? Once you fall behind,
[11:18] >> right? Then it's just now it's torture
[11:20] the rest of the time, right? Wherever
[11:22] you fall behind, right? And it's just
[11:24] it's you're and
[11:26] >> in our system because our learning
[11:28] engine will give you a personalized
[11:30] lesson.
[11:31] >> Yeah.
[11:31] >> Right. It doesn't matter what your age
[11:33] grade is. You can be in eighth grade and
[11:35] if you need a fifth grade lesson cuz
[11:37] whatever before you came to Alpha, you
[11:39] missed it.
[11:40] >> It's going to give you the fifth grade
[11:41] lesson, right? And you're going to be
[11:42] able to do it. You're going to be able
[11:43] to get it. you're gonna be able to pass
[11:45] it and then move forward. And so, you
[11:47] know, we engineer wins for the kids in
[11:50] the academics that, you know, if you had
[11:52] to say the core value of what the engine
[11:55] does is, you know, for the kids, you you
[11:57] basically want kids in this 80 to 85%
[12:01] correct zone, right? Like just what
[12:04] percent of the time if you're engaging
[12:05] with something, is it too easy or too
[12:07] hard? If it's 100% correct, it's too
[12:10] easy. You're not even learning anything.
[12:12] and you're just regurgitating what you
[12:13] know. And any video game developer will
[12:16] tell you if you drop below 2/3 and
[12:18] you're failing more than 2/ird of the
[12:19] time, you're going to disengage. So, one
[12:22] of the things that, you know, a learning
[12:24] engine can do that a teacher in front of
[12:26] a classroom with 30 people can't do is
[12:28] make sure the kid gets an unending
[12:30] stream of lessons and questions that's
[12:34] 80 to 85% accurate, right? And we can
[12:37] just do it. And if it gets too hard,
[12:39] right, we can give them scaffolding
[12:40] lessons to catch up, right? Too easy,
[12:42] you progress them faster through the
[12:44] material. And if you keep kids engaged
[12:46] because you're giving them work they can
[12:48] do, right, then they like that. And when
[12:51] kids actually do well, right, and you
[12:54] hold them to high standards, right, they
[12:56] get very excited, you know, and just
[12:58] they see themselves crushing their
[13:00] academics instead of struggling with it.
[13:02] And when they're doing well, right, they
[13:05] they love that.
[13:07] >> Gagen, I'm I'm curious how you think
[13:09] about this conversation and what Alpha
[13:11] is doing, you know, in K2 and how that
[13:13] informs what we're doing with with AJ.
[13:16] >> Incredibly inspired. I think that I've
[13:18] been inspired by Alpha School since I
[13:20] first visited and it proves I think the
[13:24] thesis that we have at the Horowits and
[13:26] Academy that if you redesign the system
[13:30] for the modern era with modern tools
[13:33] that you can have everything that you
[13:36] want in terms of outcomes, you can have
[13:38] more network. A lot of people say you go
[13:40] to school for network. We're going to
[13:42] take your network and make it 10x
[13:43] better. Everyone says you're going to go
[13:45] to school to become a better person.
[13:47] Like Horwitz and Dre Academy absolutely
[13:50] wants you to become a better person.
[13:51] We're going to engineer the system so
[13:54] that you're more likely to become a
[13:55] positive somehum. You want to have high
[13:57] agency and you want to do hard things
[13:59] like Alpha has given me a lot of
[14:01] inspiration on how to ensure that
[14:03] students get that. I think the one
[14:05] difference is that at every age range
[14:07] you have to do something very different.
[14:09] So if you actually listen to Joe talk K8
[14:12] high school very different when you go
[14:15] from high school to college era very
[14:18] different and so now all of a sudden you
[14:20] have to make the right changes you can't
[14:23] just copy everything over that is uh and
[14:26] so ultimately if you have a student
[14:28] centric mindset you know if you just
[14:31] told the leaders of any major university
[14:34] in the country that their number one job
[14:36] and no other job was to make sure that
[14:38] the students were like succeeding. I'm
[14:42] sure that there would be many great
[14:44] schools in the United States. Um,
[14:46] unfortunately, there aren't many. Uh,
[14:48] because most university leaders are
[14:50] required to spend 90% of their time
[14:54] focused on all the adults around them
[14:55] and not enough on the students. And one
[14:57] of the things you see with Joe's is
[14:58] always talking about the kids.
[14:59] >> Yeah. Joe, I'm curious. You've, you
[15:02] know, very generously uh gotten involved
[15:03] with HA as an investor and adviser. what
[15:06] um what excited you about what what what
[15:08] we're up to and how how have you thought
[15:10] about the differences between you know
[15:12] college and uh and high school? So, I'm
[15:15] I'm super excited because I absolutely
[15:17] believe that university needs to be
[15:19] reinvented just like we have in K12,
[15:21] right? And so, I'm focused on K12, but
[15:23] I'm very excited uh that you guys jumped
[15:26] in and and said, "Let's do this." So,
[15:28] anything I could do to help I I I want
[15:30] it one I need places for alpha kids to
[15:32] go.
[15:32] >> Yeah.
[15:33] >> Right. that there's, you know, there's
[15:34] going to be a whole set of kids who are
[15:36] like, I I want to go there. Um, and uh,
[15:40] you know, and so what what have we done,
[15:41] you know, what have we thought about? To
[15:43] your point, it's completely different,
[15:44] right? Each each our high school is very
[15:46] different than our K8. Um, and I believe
[15:48] university needs to be different. And I
[15:50] don't believe the whole concept of, you
[15:52] know, is university is everybody just
[15:54] going to come out of high school and not
[15:55] go to university anymore? I actually
[15:56] don't think that's true. I believe
[15:58] there's a huge opportunity to reinvent
[16:00] university and make it awesome. No one
[16:02] wants to go to a bad school, right? And
[16:03] where it's terrible and it's not getting
[16:04] the kids ready. You know, as an example,
[16:07] we got we had um uh we had uh over 70
[16:11] MIT and Stanford kids and UT came to
[16:15] Alpha this summer um as interns and part
[16:20] of what we were saying is tell us about
[16:22] university. How's it going? You know,
[16:23] what do you think? And I was like, "How
[16:25] many of you guys expect that, you know,
[16:26] this university is getting you ready,
[16:28] whatever one you're going to, is getting
[16:30] you ready for the world when you
[16:31] graduate?" And one kid raised his head.
[16:35] Like, it was just like I was like,
[16:36] "Seriously?" Like, "None of you?" And
[16:38] they're like, "We're terrified. We do
[16:39] not feel, you know, we worked, you know,
[16:42] our 12 years really hard to get into
[16:44] these great universities." And now we're
[16:46] terrified that, you know, when it comes
[16:48] time to graduate, there's not going to
[16:49] be those jobs that you used to get
[16:51] coming out of it. you know, those first
[16:53] one and twoyear jobs aren't aren't
[16:55] there, you know, and AI is going to be
[16:57] doing it. So, what do what do we do? Um,
[16:59] and so we they spent a lot of time this
[17:02] summer as interns, you know, coming up
[17:05] with what they thought, you know, would
[17:06] be um, you know, reinvention of
[17:09] university and what they would want. Um,
[17:12] and, you know, and back to kids wanting
[17:15] to do hard things, right? you know,
[17:17] these they were interns and they came in
[17:19] and they came up, you know, we're going
[17:20] to build this educational LLM, you know,
[17:23] so we can make it free for everybody in
[17:24] the world because every sovereign is
[17:26] going to need its own, you know, uh,
[17:29] LLM, educational LM, small language
[17:31] model sit, you know, so not an small
[17:33] language model that sits on a on a
[17:35] device.
[17:36] >> And those kids worked 80 hours a week,
[17:38] right, figuring out, doing research,
[17:40] figuring out the concepts of learning,
[17:42] right? They're going to be published,
[17:43] right? Um and you know at the end of it
[17:46] they're like this is what we would love
[17:48] the university to be where we're all
[17:50] working together on this super hard
[17:51] thing right that has meaningful impact
[17:53] to the world right that could could
[17:55] really help change the world like I wish
[17:57] these could be classes at you know
[17:59] >> MIT and Stanford and UT um but they're
[18:02] they're not right and that's when I
[18:05] think about what you guys are doing of
[18:07] reinventing it and letting kids really
[18:10] build right it's not just about the
[18:13] classes it's about getting ready for the
[18:14] real world and all those skills you
[18:16] need. I believe those are different at
[18:18] university, but I'm very excited about
[18:19] what you're you're building around that.
[18:22] >> Yeah, I think it's really important to
[18:26] uh understand that an average student
[18:29] who's going to university who's really
[18:31] ambitious, they need to get their hands
[18:34] dirty. like they are entering the real
[18:36] world in 3 to four years and it's super
[18:41] critical for them to be going and
[18:43] building things and understanding what
[18:45] it's like and making mistakes and
[18:47] dealing with the challenges and you know
[18:49] I really love that you said that they
[18:51] were studying
[18:53] >> as part of the 80our so they're in
[18:55] they're in Austin for an 80hour week
[18:58] internship and you mentioned studying
[19:01] and I'm guessing you didn't assign any
[19:02] textbooks No, they and back to this,
[19:05] they had to go do all the research to
[19:07] build an LLM. So they literally are
[19:09] researching learning science,
[19:10] researching it the, you know, we have
[19:12] this data structure called the brain
[19:13] lift, you know, that they and they were
[19:15] working hard,
[19:17] >> right, on what would be considered
[19:18] classical, you know, stuff you need to
[19:20] do at a university, but it wasn't just
[19:22] the studying part. It was how do you
[19:24] apply it and be a builder,
[19:26] >> right? And I think your point of getting
[19:28] ready is is it's both. Well, you talk
[19:30] about learning as being 90% motivation.
[19:32] Yeah.
[19:33] >> And when you're 18 years old, you're
[19:36] motivated by building things that people
[19:39] will use. You're motivated by revenue
[19:41] and getting a job and that kind of
[19:43] thing. And so, why not make the entire
[19:45] learning experience uh driven by that
[19:49] motivation and using that motivation to
[19:51] actually go and learn things? Because my
[19:52] my concern with college is I I mean, I
[19:55] know Eric and I had this experience.
[19:56] We've talked about it like I didn't
[19:59] learn very much because I did not like
[20:01] the format and to be honest now I go to
[20:05] Stanford's campus or someone other
[20:06] someone else's campus. No one seems to
[20:09] like the format. So 20 years ago I was a
[20:11] little bit in the minority maybe 20% of
[20:13] students agreed with me. Um our classes
[20:16] were about half full I would say in
[20:18] attendance. I hear they're now way under
[20:20] 10% full. You know people are students
[20:23] are not finding the format to work. you
[20:25] need to reinvent the format in order to
[20:27] create motivation so they actually learn
[20:28] things. Yeah.
[20:29] >> Um and that's one of the main focuses of
[20:32] the academy.
[20:33] >> No, I think another example is, you
[20:35] know, our first graduating class from
[20:37] Alpha High was three years ago. And so
[20:39] at Christmas after they'd all been, you
[20:41] know, at at university, I you know, I
[20:44] got them together. I was like, "How's it
[20:45] going?" Like, "How do you do in real?"
[20:47] Because that's right. How do you do in
[20:49] university after you come out?
[20:50] >> And they're like, "Okay, we love it."
[20:52] They all had four O's. They were
[20:54] crushing it. And but they were like
[20:56] these hundred series lecture classes are
[20:58] a complete waste of time. Five of them
[21:00] had written editorials to their school
[21:01] paper about how it's just a charade. How
[21:04] the kids come in are like scrolling
[21:06] TikTok or, you know, on their computers
[21:07] not paying attention or not showing up
[21:09] and the teachers aren't, you know,
[21:11] teaching and they're just like that
[21:12] those don't need to exist anymore. Right
[21:15] now I was like, well, what do you like?
[21:17] And they're like, oh, there's all these
[21:18] great small groupoup seminars. were
[21:20] working on, you know, uh clubs and and
[21:23] all the activities around it. The, you
[21:26] know, a university is a bundle of
[21:28] products, right? And they liked, you
[21:30] know, the bundle, but the actual
[21:32] academic part of like these big lecture
[21:34] classes and stuff, they're like that
[21:36] needs to go away.
[21:37] >> Yeah.
[21:37] >> And what's crazy is that that academic
[21:40] part that you're talking about is the
[21:41] only thing the university formally
[21:43] provides.
[21:44] >> So, it's actually the the the rest of
[21:46] the bundle is student driven.
[21:48] >> Yeah. Um, and the academic stuff takes
[21:51] up about 50% of the time, right?
[21:53] >> Well, so I just, right, I dropped out of
[21:56] Stanford, right? And I was this kid,
[21:58] which was it didn't take up 50% of my
[22:00] time because I me but if you go if you
[22:03] go to the classes, it takes what you
[22:04] said. But back to I my experience there
[22:07] and you know for the couple years I was
[22:08] there. It was great because of all the
[22:10] other things the people I met you know
[22:12] Steve Jobs came down right was given a
[22:14] talk and one of my friends went and was
[22:16] working at next and you know uh Bill Joy
[22:19] and Scott Mcneely would come and and and
[22:21] talk and you'd go spend time with him
[22:23] afterward or have lunch. all of those
[22:25] experiences that you had of who you met
[22:28] and you know seeing the real world plus
[22:30] building stuff with my friends, right?
[22:32] Uh that eventually became our company,
[22:35] right? That was what was great about the
[22:37] product to me and sitting in these
[22:39] lecture classes were, you know, uh the
[22:42] opposite of that. Yeah. One thing we've
[22:44] talked about is how to make the students
[22:46] love it. But of course, uh you know,
[22:47] even more important constituent in terms
[22:48] of where where kids go to school is
[22:50] their parents. Yeah. And so talk about
[22:52] how the conversations you're having with
[22:54] parents are evolving whether it relates
[22:56] to, you know, uh, early education or or
[22:58] higher education and some of the advice
[23:00] that that you give them.
[23:02] >> Great. So, you know, Yeah. So, I I
[23:04] talked to tens of thousands of parents
[23:05] now, you know, sort of in the K12
[23:08] >> K12 range and I've been shocked actually
[23:11] at the at the switch, which is there's
[23:12] still some families who are like, you
[23:14] know, I'm a kindergarten parent and I I
[23:17] want to see the direct path right into
[23:18] the Audi league. Um, but an equal
[23:21] number, maybe even more, of parents who
[23:24] went to Stanford or Harvard who are
[23:27] like, "No, I know I don't want my kid on
[23:30] that path. How are you going to get them
[23:32] ready for a world that's not that?"
[23:35] Yeah.
[23:35] >> Right. And they absolutely want to see
[23:38] this alternative path cuz when they
[23:40] look, especially even in kindergarten,
[23:41] they're looking forward 12 years from
[23:42] now and they're like, you know, what am
[23:45] I going to do? you know, and how are you
[23:48] preparing my kid for the world? And my
[23:50] their vision of the world is yes, I went
[23:52] to the Ivy League, but that's not going
[23:54] to be for my kid. I don't think that's
[23:55] going to get him ready. And if you're
[23:57] telling me that, I don't I don't want
[23:58] your I don't want your K12 school. And
[24:00] so we're that that's happening a lot
[24:02] now.
[24:02] >> Um and they're they're looking for what
[24:05] what are they? Cuz I I think there's
[24:07] recognition now, you know, versus maybe
[24:09] the last 30 or 40 years that the world
[24:11] is really changing, right? And you know,
[24:14] if you're an 11th grade or a 12th grader
[24:16] and I'm talking to you, the parents are
[24:18] sort of done. They're like, just get my
[24:20] kid into college, right? Or, you know,
[24:22] they're sort of like, I've I've been on
[24:23] this route and I'm at the 5 yard line.
[24:25] I'm not throwing all the cards up in the
[24:27] air.
[24:27] >> But when you look younger, right, those
[24:30] parents are like, there's just no way
[24:32] that the current path is going to going
[24:34] to be the right one. And so when I think
[24:36] you know of of this I would expect and I
[24:39] don't know when you get your demand
[24:41] you're going to have massive demand from
[24:42] all the kids right who are going to be
[24:44] like okay I have to go do this it's so
[24:46] obvious this is awesome and then you
[24:48] will have to have a separate sales job
[24:51] right with the parents right to show
[24:54] them look while it wasn't the way you
[24:56] did it right this is the way and you
[25:00] know um you know there's there there
[25:03] there's a historical precedent for this
[25:05] that um you know might be useful for
[25:07] you, right? If if you want to go through
[25:09] it, which is you know in 1910, you know
[25:12] 90% of America had an eighth grade
[25:13] education.
[25:15] >> Um there was no high schools basically,
[25:17] >> right? And over 30% of America's a
[25:19] farmer,
[25:20] >> right? And so everybody's on the farm.
[25:22] Eighth grade was enough. You're working
[25:24] in the fields, right? In high school.
[25:26] And then um in 1910, the tractor case
[25:30] tractor rolled up on the American farm,
[25:33] right? And literally, you can go look at
[25:34] the ads. It literally looks like an
[25:35] anthropic ad. You know, does the work of
[25:37] 50 programmers, does the work of 50 farm
[25:39] hands and literally everybody in America
[25:42] realized 30% of the jobs are going away,
[25:45] right? My kids and grandkids, we've been
[25:48] doing this for generations. It's gone.
[25:50] That path is gone. And we have to get
[25:53] our kids ready for this new future.
[25:55] >> Yeah.
[25:55] >> Um and it was that same recognition I
[25:58] think that parents have today. The the
[26:00] traditional path is those jobs. It's the
[26:02] the hund the kids coming in the summer
[26:04] where they're like, "I'm going to get
[26:05] out of Stanford, MIT. I'm not going to
[26:07] have a job." Right? And um but what
[26:10] America did back then is 130,000 towns,
[26:14] right? We used to have a it was um they
[26:16] voted to actually raise their taxes and
[26:19] this is the key part, fund an education
[26:22] that they'd never experienced. They'd
[26:25] never seen a high school curriculum.
[26:26] They'd never been to high school, right?
[26:28] right? They had an eighth grade
[26:28] education, but they knew they had to do
[26:31] something different than their
[26:32] background, right? They had to see the
[26:34] world differently to get their kids
[26:36] ready, right? And get them the good
[26:38] jobs, which back then that school system
[26:40] became the industrial system we've had
[26:41] the last hundred years. It it served us
[26:43] really well for a hundred years. But now
[26:45] it's time for the next change. you're
[26:47] going to have to convince the families
[26:49] to be like those 1910, you know, uh,
[26:53] rural farmers who realized, while I
[26:56] haven't experienced it and it's
[26:57] different than what I did, this is what
[26:59] my kid needs to thrive in the future.
[27:02] >> Yeah. And and what would you say to the
[27:04] parent who's saying, you know, hey, I
[27:07] I'm sending my kid to a Ivy League
[27:10] school. Um, I know it's not perfect, but
[27:14] this is a new institution. you know, why
[27:15] why should I take a risk? Why why would
[27:17] you consider taking a risk on on uh the
[27:20] academy?
[27:21] >> Yeah. Um so I've been living this
[27:24] actually at the K12 level now for four
[27:26] years.
[27:26] >> Yes.
[27:26] >> And it it is one where you know back to
[27:31] >> the the lucky part is you don't need
[27:32] everybody, right? It's there's going to
[27:34] be that set and when we would talk when
[27:37] I talk to families you know it's there's
[27:39] a you know it's an adoption curve just
[27:41] like any other one and there's a set of
[27:43] families who absolutely realize the
[27:46] current system's just not there right or
[27:48] the people who sit there and say I feel
[27:51] it but I just need to be you know moved
[27:53] over
[27:54] >> um you know the number you know I both
[27:57] my daughters right you know were told
[27:59] they're not going to get into college
[28:01] you know when they were at eth paid, you
[28:03] know, if they went to alpha and they had
[28:05] to go to a traditional school, right?
[28:07] And there was just no chance that, you
[28:09] know, uh, that would occur. And so
[28:12] you're there there is that, you know,
[28:15] dichotomy, but for parents, you know, if
[28:18] you look, you know, sort of across the
[28:20] families who went to alpha four years
[28:22] ago, right, and the ones who didn't, you
[28:25] know, went to Alpha High versus not,
[28:27] there's a lot more families who are
[28:30] like, I totally should have sent my kid
[28:31] to Alpha, right? that I went the
[28:33] traditional path,
[28:35] >> right? I thought it was the safe path
[28:37] and it totally wasn't.
[28:39] >> And look at how those alpha kids are
[28:40] thriving and I thought those guys were
[28:43] crazy and risky, but now looking looking
[28:45] at the reality of what happened with my
[28:47] kid who didn't go to alpha versus those,
[28:49] they regret it. And you know, I believe
[28:52] that you you have to get through the
[28:54] first year because you don't have any
[28:55] data. But one year in people are going
[28:59] to see that the students are thriving,
[29:01] right? And once you see that, then you
[29:03] that's the comparison. And I'll I'll
[29:05] even go back to my own experience on
[29:07] this, which is I sort of am talking very
[29:09] positive and optimistic, but I I didn't
[29:11] start Alpha 12 years ago, right?
[29:12] Mackenzie Price and and Brian did.
[29:15] >> And you know, uh I had my I went to
[29:17] Catholic school. My kids were in
[29:18] Catholic school. I didn't like it, but
[29:20] you know, parents want their kids
[29:22] educated the way they are. That's the
[29:23] legacy. That's the problem, right?
[29:25] That's what we have you have to
[29:26] overcome. And so my kids are in Catholic
[29:28] school. And no, you know, and and
[29:30] Mackenzie's like, "Well, come to my new
[29:31] school, right?" And I I dropped out of
[29:34] college. Like I I started a startup in a
[29:36] garage. And I'm like, "Schools shouldn't
[29:37] be in a garage. Like this is so weird,
[29:39] right? You have a janky weird school,
[29:41] Mackenzie." And I was totally right. I
[29:43] was right. And then
[29:46] >> it took two years
[29:47] >> for me. So I was the slow I Right. It
[29:49] took me two years to move over.
[29:51] >> Um and uh and then finally, that was 10
[29:54] years ago.
[29:55] you know, obviously turned out great for
[29:57] uh you know, our family, but uh I look
[30:00] at that, my my kids still yell at me for
[30:02] being slow those two years, right?
[30:03] They're like, "You should have started
[30:04] earlier, Dad." Um but that concept of,
[30:08] you know, finding those families and so
[30:10] we travel all around the country, right?
[30:12] We've opened 50 campuses, you know, and
[30:14] you get, you know, a thousand people in
[30:16] the info session and you're like, who
[30:18] wants to be the first 10? Who wants to
[30:20] be the first 25 or 50, right? And a year
[30:22] ago when we were opening the 12 campuses
[30:25] literally thousand plus people in info
[30:27] sessions and we couldn't get 25 right we
[30:30] would get you know 10 right we opened
[30:32] New York City with you know 10 or 12
[30:34] >> and uh now the campus is full
[30:37] >> right the 150 you know total people and
[30:40] you know they had to go see
[30:42] >> the first ones that it works and then
[30:44] it's there so your first the first class
[30:46] is always those people who are like I
[30:48] know it's bad I want to jump in what you
[30:51] will see immed immediately and sort of
[30:52] what we're seeing on the demand is
[30:55] people just need someone to go first and
[30:58] once you get that first and it works the
[31:01] the demand just skyrockets
[31:03] >> and the benefits of being first are are
[31:05] high you know what I see in colleagues
[31:07] and friends who are sending their kids
[31:08] to alpha or even you know friends who've
[31:11] done something like teal fellowship um
[31:13] which is also small application numbers
[31:15] in the beginning is those people who are
[31:16] applying early have the courage of their
[31:18] conviction it's positive self- selection
[31:20] and so you're around some of the most
[31:22] brilliant people, some of the most
[31:23] courageous people both on the kid level
[31:25] and the parent level and uh it's really
[31:28] just a phenomenal experience.
[31:29] >> And I that is back to advice on that you
[31:32] absolutely want the families who are
[31:33] both sides, right? All in because it is
[31:36] there will be hiccups, right? There's
[31:38] just there's hiccups that happen and for
[31:40] sure and you know it's just it's part of
[31:42] it when you're starting and someone
[31:44] who's super skeptical and on the you
[31:46] know the late adopter side they're just
[31:48] going to not right they're it's going to
[31:50] destroy them right because they won't be
[31:52] able to handle it the people who are
[31:53] over here who really want the product
[31:55] >> right we talk about magnet marketing you
[31:58] want to attract the right people and
[31:59] repel the wrong and people who want to
[32:01] be laggers I don't like AI or screen
[32:03] time
[32:04] >> you know that's a set of people in the
[32:05] infosition say that I'm like I you
[32:07] shouldn't Um I I you know if you can't
[32:10] balance right what this offering is it's
[32:13] being clear on your product definition
[32:14] is a a thing that I don't think most
[32:16] schools do but if you're clear on your
[32:18] product definition this what we are this
[32:19] we're not it helps you find those right
[32:21] group and exactly what you talked about
[32:23] when the right groups together right
[32:25] because part of its community right
[32:27] you're building the community there all
[32:29] the kids who are there and the parent
[32:30] community does matter when you're doing
[32:32] startup our founding families are one of
[32:34] our biggest assets now
[32:36] >> um you know uh at our school and I
[32:38] believe it'll be the same for for what
[32:40] you're doing.
[32:40] >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that that makes me
[32:42] think of two things. One is I think
[32:44] we're going to be pretty uh like strict
[32:46] about who gets in and less about class
[32:49] size. You've told me this, I've heard
[32:51] this. I think that's a very important
[32:53] lesson. The second lesson I think is
[32:56] that um
[32:58] this is the type of thing where you
[33:02] don't want most people to want it. you
[33:05] want the people who really want it to do
[33:08] it. Um,
[33:10] and then actually I'll add one more
[33:12] thing which is we did make it one year
[33:13] and it's not no tuition the first year.
[33:15] So it is also a little bit less risky
[33:18] than you know you're missing eighth
[33:20] grade. Yeah.
[33:21] >> And you can't repeat you know you don't
[33:23] want to miss eighth grade but
[33:26] >> if you take one year uh detour from
[33:28] college you can always go back. It's
[33:29] it's really no different. So I do think
[33:31] that's one of the things we have the
[33:33] benefit. It's one of it's interesting to
[33:35] see the nuances of a college experience
[33:37] versus a high school experience because
[33:39] the stakes are different in different
[33:40] directions.
[33:41] >> I believe that is going to be one of
[33:42] your assets with the parents on the one
[33:44] year is there there's no downside,
[33:47] right? There's no downside to trying it,
[33:49] right? And uh you can always defer at
[33:52] some other college or reapply. And so
[33:55] you're not you're not, you know, um
[33:57] shutting down other options. And you
[34:00] know, and just to the parents stuff,
[34:02] what you'll see is,
[34:03] >> you know, when your kid loves it, back
[34:04] to schools being 90% motivation.
[34:07] >> I I I just, you know, if I was talking
[34:08] to the parents here and they were their
[34:10] kid really wants to go, I just give you
[34:12] advice for all the stuff is just let
[34:14] them go do it, right? Let's even just
[34:16] say it doesn't work out for him, right?
[34:18] And whatever and it's not
[34:19] >> it'll be the best learning experience of
[34:21] their life, right? And they'll be right
[34:23] ready to do the other. and fighting that
[34:26] the other way. It just is isn't as
[34:29] riskier in this.
[34:29] >> No, it's much riskier. And we can go to
[34:31] a lot of stories I have of of those at
[34:33] our high school level.
[34:34] >> Well, I I think that's actually if you
[34:36] if you think about the three of us and
[34:38] we're we're there are actually like many
[34:40] people we all know who are like us who
[34:42] didn't love school at some point.
[34:44] >> And what is the thing that that we
[34:47] dislike the most?
[34:49] >> And for me, it was that I was being
[34:51] forced to do things that I was not
[34:52] bought into.
[34:53] >> Yeah. like my agency had started to grow
[34:56] 13, 14, 15 years old and I started to,
[34:59] you know, see the emperor had no clothes
[35:01] and I started to to believe like, wait a
[35:03] second, my teacher doesn't actually know
[35:05] how to teach math. Like, this might not
[35:07] be the best way to teach math. Oh,
[35:10] shoot. So, I got to take this stupid
[35:12] test now, you know? And um a and and so
[35:16] I think that one of the pedagogical
[35:19] philosophies of the academy and of alpha
[35:23] is that you design it around the student
[35:27] to increase the chance that you or to
[35:29] decrease the chance that you get that
[35:31] rebellion.
[35:31] >> Yeah.
[35:32] >> And instead if you have buy in they're
[35:34] much more likely to thrive and do
[35:36] things. And so, you know,
[35:38] >> no, and I think that's I and I'll tell
[35:39] the personal story on this, which is,
[35:41] you know, um I during my K12, I was
[35:44] always in trouble, right? I was skipping
[35:46] school all the time. I did the minimum
[35:48] to get into Stanford, you know, and then
[35:50] I dropped out, right? And when I dropped
[35:51] out, my dad had a famous quote that was
[35:53] like on Forbes or whatever, you know, my
[35:55] son's a you know, and you know,
[35:58] and sort of, right? and uh he was not
[36:03] happy and um you know but then the part
[36:06] that didn't get in the article was you
[36:08] know a couple years later so I dropped
[36:10] out and then I started you know my
[36:11] company and it was awesome and then all
[36:13] a sudden I'm working 100 hours a week
[36:14] and we're sleeping under the desks and
[36:16] it's just you know it's crazy crazy and
[36:18] you know two years later he's like you
[36:20] know I I got to change my mind this was
[36:22] the greatest thing ever
[36:23] >> that you dropped out. He's like, he's
[36:25] like, you know, I I have to admit, you
[36:27] know, I was really worried that you were
[36:30] going to be a lazy little you
[36:33] know, and cuz that's was your academic
[36:35] career, right? And he was like, as a
[36:37] dad, you know, I was just terrified that
[36:38] I had, you know, done poorly. And he's
[36:40] like, now I see that now that you're
[36:42] doing what you love, right? You're fully
[36:44] engaged,
[36:45] >> go I should have, you know, gotten this
[36:47] done earlier. And I think that's the
[36:49] same thing when you have a student like
[36:51] when we talk about building a school
[36:52] they love more than vacation. You're
[36:54] engaging them around stuff they love,
[36:56] right? And when you do that, that's what
[36:58] causes all the parents who say, "My kid
[37:00] changed in a month." It's because we
[37:02] have them doing hard things that they
[37:03] want to do, right? And all of a sudden
[37:05] it does change and it's that quick,
[37:08] >> right? And and having a a school where
[37:10] your kid wants to go to it because
[37:12] they're going to be doing hard things,
[37:14] >> right? Is, you know, is as as is it's a
[37:17] great thing. And I believe that's why
[37:18] one of the reasons why I think this is
[37:20] going to be a home run because you're
[37:21] going to get all these kids, right, who
[37:23] are like, I know it's hard. I want to go
[37:26] do this.
[37:27] >> I can coast through normal school and
[37:29] I'm not going to pick that path.
[37:31] Instead, I'm going to pick this and this
[37:32] is going to be harder than all the other
[37:34] schools, right? In what you're doing in
[37:36] all of those. And and that's the, you
[37:38] know, that's part of it. And and kids
[37:40] love it. You know, we have we have in
[37:41] our high school, we have a world school
[37:42] where they're spending a year in Africa,
[37:43] a year of service, and they have to sign
[37:45] a contract that's like, I realize this
[37:46] will be the hardest year of my life,
[37:48] >> right? And they all sign it, and they
[37:49] all love it, and they're super excited
[37:51] to go, right? And I believe this is sort
[37:53] of the equivalent uh of that.
[37:55] >> By the way, one note, I've spent a fair
[37:57] amount of time in Africa. I would send
[37:59] some kids to India or Sri Lanka. It's
[38:01] going to be much harder.
[38:02] >> There we Okay. Well, that'll that'll be
[38:04] on the list. That'll be it's called
[38:06] World School, so they're going to be
[38:07] going, but I love that. I um I think
[38:10] Africa that's such an amazing thing that
[38:13] you're doing. One of our wishes that
[38:15] we've talked about, we we have a stipen,
[38:17] we don't talk about this too much, but
[38:18] we we've already allocated $5,000 per
[38:21] student to uh for a travel budget. And
[38:24] my personal goal, now they get to decide
[38:26] how they use the travel budget. I'm not
[38:28] going to force anything on anyone, but
[38:29] my personal goal is that a lot of them
[38:31] go solo to countries with less than
[38:34] $20,000 GDP per capita. Yeah, it's a
[38:36] great idea. Yeah,
[38:38] >> this perspective.
[38:39] >> No, I totally I think that is that's uh
[38:41] super valuable.
[38:42] >> Yeah, you you learn so much about
[38:44] yourself and about life and I think that
[38:47] it also will provide perspective that
[38:49] will help in business. Of course.
[38:50] >> Yeah.
[38:51] >> You know, it's so funny going back to
[38:53] this idea of, you know, kids who are the
[38:55] story you mentioned your parents reminds
[38:57] me, you know, kids like us when we were
[38:58] younger and and others who are quote
[39:00] unquote lazy in school and that they,
[39:02] you know, don't get 4.0 because they're
[39:04] just not bought in. But when when they
[39:05] find the thing, they're willing to put
[39:07] 100 hour weeks. Um there's so many
[39:09] people like that. And conversely, there
[39:10] are people on the other side who will
[39:12] get straight A's, but once you take away
[39:14] the structure, they haven't really
[39:15] cultivated this inner desire or this
[39:18] ability to find what they love. And when
[39:20] they get to the working world and in
[39:21] which the skills are just remarkably
[39:22] different, they they can't they can't
[39:24] operate in in the same way. And um it
[39:27] just strikes me that we're going to just
[39:28] create the space and you're you're
[39:29] creating the space, you know, from a
[39:30] much earlier age where people really get
[39:32] to get in touch with what they care
[39:33] about, be much more self-driven and um
[39:36] yeah, it's just really powerful.
[39:37] >> Yeah. No, that you know the correct that
[39:40] the those are what are all the life
[39:43] skills that's when you talk about a
[39:44] holistic person. It's not just what
[39:46] their GPA was and and you can you can
[39:48] max, you know, uh score max on on just
[39:52] your grades, but that is not something
[39:54] that means you do well in the real
[39:56] world. And I think parents actually
[39:58] realize that, you know, you need to be
[40:00] more well-rounded. They just don't have
[40:02] a path of of doing it. And I believe
[40:04] that one of the things back to
[40:06] reinventing university, you're going to
[40:08] show them here's all these things that
[40:10] should be part of the university
[40:12] curriculum, not a club after that the
[40:15] kids, you know, optionally do.
[40:17] >> Um, and so I think that's going to be a
[40:19] great a great thing. I I think employers
[40:21] obviously will realize the same thing.
[40:23] >> Yeah, I the employers seem very bought
[40:25] in honestly. Yeah, that that part's that
[40:27] part of the whole thing is there's no
[40:29] there's no there's no problem on that
[40:31] pitch which is right the number of
[40:32] employers are like these kids coming out
[40:34] right don't have
[40:36] >> the skills and capability to do it and
[40:38] it is that you know they uh well if you
[40:42] had just taken me you know before I
[40:44] actually started my company and looked
[40:45] at me and said you know are are you
[40:47] ready for a job I wasn't but then you
[40:50] know two years later after I was doing
[40:51] this outside project
[40:53] >> Yeah
[40:53] >> right this you know non non academic
[40:56] project, then I'm like, I'm probably a
[40:58] pretty good employee to hire.
[40:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's funny actually because
[41:01] the issue that most employers have is
[41:04] not one of a skills gap in the like do
[41:08] you know how to code or build products
[41:10] or design. It's I mean what we hear more
[41:13] than anything is uh people skills,
[41:16] maturity and systems thinking. You know
[41:18] those things are the the actual skills.
[41:22] So the only way to learn those things is
[41:24] to actually just interact with lots of
[41:26] people,
[41:27] >> have to build complex systems.
[41:29] >> Yeah.
[41:29] >> Right. Um and uh being able to forcing
[41:34] yourself to deal with the reality of
[41:36] rejection and sort of uh the maturation
[41:39] process of not having things structured
[41:41] for you, but having to structure them
[41:42] yourself.
[41:43] >> Yeah. No, those as back to AI
[41:46] commoditizing intelligence, right, and
[41:49] scoring on this when you can ask it,
[41:51] you're like, well, what is what are the
[41:52] human traits you want, right? And it is
[41:55] it's leadership, right? It's being able
[41:57] to work in a team. It's agency, right?
[41:59] It's ownership. It's receive feedback,
[42:01] as you say. All of those skills, right?
[42:04] Um uh that you have to have that you can
[42:06] get from doing projects. Yeah. But you
[42:09] don't get from sitting in class. Yeah.
[42:12] >> Yeah. There's a lot of questions around
[42:13] what is AI doing to coding? What is AI
[42:14] doing to math? You know, what's it going
[42:15] to do to to physics? If if you were, you
[42:18] know, knowing what you know now, but if
[42:19] you were 18 years old today with with
[42:21] with your interests, how would you think
[42:23] about, you know, if you had the
[42:24] flexibility at something like ha to kind
[42:26] of design your own ed education, how
[42:29] would you think about what you would be
[42:30] motivated to learn based on what where
[42:31] you see the world going and your own
[42:33] interest?
[42:33] >> Yeah. So I we I sort of have this this
[42:35] this framework, right? And um of you
[42:39] know load there's sort of cognitive
[42:41] onload, right? And AI allows you to fill
[42:44] your head with knowledge 10 times
[42:45] faster.
[42:45] >> Yeah.
[42:46] >> Right. So these these kids can become
[42:48] domain experts in their field that they
[42:50] want to faster than ever.
[42:52] >> Yeah.
[42:52] >> Right. I mean I I have kids in my high
[42:54] school who are rebuilding the timeback
[42:56] software stack that I wrote. Right. and
[42:58] they were becoming experts in learning
[43:00] science and and and being able to do
[43:02] this right
[43:05] >> which wasn't able to be done before in
[43:07] high school. So the cognitive onload
[43:08] part because it's 10 times faster you do
[43:10] it and it doesn't take that long
[43:12] >> right and so I can get the equivalent of
[43:14] a mast's you know while I'm you know in
[43:16] a year right and you know uh do that
[43:19] part but then the second part is the AI
[43:21] gives you a chance to be a builder right
[43:23] it gives you superpowers to build like
[43:25] no one else right and I believe that's
[43:27] the kids who are at your university is
[43:30] they're going to realize I want to build
[43:32] something and I'm going to learn faster
[43:33] than I ever have whatever prerec just
[43:35] like those the the interns this summer
[43:37] were doing it, right? They were doing
[43:38] research, right? Learning all this
[43:40] stuff, but they were doing it doing it
[43:42] to build. And I believe just, you know,
[43:44] if you talk to our high school kids at
[43:45] Alpha High, they're definitely not
[43:47] doomers about like AI in the future.
[43:49] They're like, you adults are cooked like
[43:53] we're coming for you and we have
[43:54] superpowers, right? And they do like
[43:57] that is these kids. No, these kids who
[43:59] are building like these apps, I'm like,
[44:01] you know, my, you know, I'm like, two
[44:04] years from now, I absolutely expect most
[44:06] learning software is going to be written
[44:08] by students. Your most students are
[44:11] going to learn from learning software
[44:12] written by their peers, right? Because
[44:15] it'll embed all the learning science
[44:16] concepts, all these things, and they
[44:18] will make it more much more engaging.
[44:20] >> Yeah.
[44:20] >> Right. And we have plenty of data around
[44:22] that already. You know, shout out to
[44:23] Austin who built our AP curriculum and
[44:26] he built this crazy great curriculum and
[44:28] all our kids who took it got a five on
[44:30] their APs, you know, and he built a
[44:33] world history one, but he did it cuz he
[44:34] built this geoging game where he took
[44:36] all these world history events and, you
[44:38] know, and did an S tier ranking with a
[44:40] snarky AI. Anyway, all these things that
[44:42] I I'm throwing those words out cuz I
[44:43] don't actually know what he really, you
[44:45] know, what they mean, but every kid was
[44:47] like engaged and loved it and did it.
[44:50] And I'm like, okay, me and the old adult
[44:52] team are never going to be able to build
[44:54] that ever, you know.
[44:55] >> And so I think that's that's what these
[44:58] kids are going to be able to do is
[44:59] they're gonna go build the future. Yeah.
[45:00] >> Right. And AI gives them the capability
[45:02] to build the future and start
[45:04] >> freshman year of college.
[45:06] >> Yeah.
[45:06] >> Um, just to take a stab at your
[45:08] question, Eric, you know, I think the
[45:10] question of what field should I study so
[45:13] that I can be sure that I'm resilient to
[45:16] the future is is not the right question.
[45:18] So the question is what field am I
[45:20] interested in?
[45:21] >> Yeah.
[45:22] >> And I think there's enough I have enough
[45:24] faith that if you're I AI native in any
[45:28] field it does not matter. You know a lot
[45:30] of people are concerned about coding or
[45:32] math. Look there's going to be a whole
[45:35] new type of coding and math that happens
[45:37] with the AI native mathematicians.
[45:40] It's just that the old school ones who
[45:42] are still doing chalkboard and pen
[45:44] pencil and paper are cooked. But the new
[45:47] students who love math, they're going to
[45:48] do just fine. In fact, they're going to
[45:50] go and do things none of us ever thought
[45:53] possible. And so there's going to be a
[45:54] whole new era of mathematicians are
[45:57] going to be successful. So I I think and
[46:00] that's actually by the way something
[46:01] that we we are trying to screen for a
[46:03] lot at HAA um which is that we really
[46:06] don't want someone who's like I want to
[46:09] make sure I'm resilient to the future.
[46:13] >> It's uh it's a very uh defensive way of
[46:16] approaching the the world and we want
[46:19] you to be on offense. We want you to say
[46:21] what are you interested in? I'm going to
[46:23] go figure it out. You know as an example
[46:25] I work in education. Education has not
[46:28] been the most lucrative founder field of
[46:31] the last 15, 20 years, right? Like it
[46:33] just so happens that I built one of like
[46:35] four wins in education in the last 15
[46:38] years, right? Like literally, it
[46:40] >> is a terrible market.
[46:41] >> Yeah. It's it's been historically a
[46:43] terrible market. We're going to change
[46:44] that.
[46:44] >> We absolutely are changing. Um, but I'm
[46:47] still super happy and proud that this is
[46:49] what I work on and I still get to, you
[46:51] know, I still feel like I know how to
[46:53] operate at the level and quality of
[46:55] someone who's doing something in AI or
[46:58] doing something in SAS or whatever. I've
[47:00] chosen a field. I love it. I have a very
[47:02] healthy and fulfilling life. I'm not a
[47:04] billionaire, but I'm I'm doing well. And
[47:06] you know, I think anyone who gets to
[47:08] that level in any field, if they're in
[47:11] the top 1% of their field, it's it's
[47:14] going to be fine.
[47:15] >> Yeah.
[47:16] >> And I love what you said, which is I I
[47:18] actually believe very much what we have
[47:19] to do with with, you know, back to
[47:21] raising kids, right? And building high
[47:23] character, you know, kids uh for the
[47:26] future. Your point of they're not
[47:29] >> this isn't passive, right? this back to
[47:32] what is going to happen to the world and
[47:34] it's going to be imposed on me. It's
[47:36] like no, we're going to go make the
[47:38] world, right? These kids are the ones
[47:40] who are creating it, right? And you can
[47:43] you can have the passive view of what
[47:45] happens, right? And oops, it's going to
[47:48] be bad. Or you can be the other, which
[47:50] is no, I'm building it, right? And we
[47:52] need to create a generation of builders
[47:54] who look at this optimistically, right?
[47:56] All our kids read rational optimist,
[47:58] right? and they sit there and say, "Yes,
[48:01] I'm in control of it." Right? And we
[48:03] need to build our future. Um, and we
[48:05] need to raise the next generation and
[48:06] have our kids coming out of university
[48:08] sort of, you know, as they they I look
[48:12] at the world and I'm like, I want this
[48:14] next generation coming out of university
[48:16] to be the ones who are optimistically
[48:18] capable with AI and saying, we're going
[48:21] to build an awesome future. Right?
[48:23] That's what our job as educators are, is
[48:25] to go build that world. um and uh make
[48:29] sure that our universities do that.
[48:31] >> Joe, this was an amazing conversation. I
[48:33] think the last thing that I'm thinking
[48:34] about is you're actually building an
[48:36] entrepreneurial school, right, for high
[48:38] school students called Founder School.
[48:40] Can you tell us a little bit about why
[48:43] you built it, how it how it works, and
[48:45] and why you think it's a good model for
[48:47] us to be inspired by?
[48:49] >> Sure. I mean I back to skills you know
[48:52] one of our our life skills stack is
[48:54] entrepreneurship and financial literacy
[48:56] you know we actually have a very strong
[48:58] point of view of when we look at the
[48:59] jobs of the future you know big Fortune
[49:01] 500 compan are going to be smaller you
[49:04] know because of AI but I believe it's
[49:06] going to be lead to an explosion of
[49:08] entrepreneurship right AI gives
[49:10] entrepreneurs this great opportunity and
[49:13] it's something we just don't teach right
[49:14] we just don't teach kids this so we we
[49:17] teach it we have a stack starting in
[49:18] kindergarten right We literally teach
[49:20] every kindergartener, you know, how to
[49:22] earn and save, spend, invest, donate,
[49:24] right? Get them get that foundational
[49:26] going, right? We have a currency called
[49:27] alphas to to start teaching them this.
[49:30] Um, but back to it's a entrepreneurship
[49:32] is not, you know, a bolt of lightning
[49:34] and it just happens. It's a set of
[49:36] skills, right, that you can teach
[49:37] people. And so, uh, you know, we teach
[49:40] them, but by the time you get to high
[49:41] school, we have a high school founders,
[49:44] uh, which is sort of our peak
[49:45] specialized school for that. This is for
[49:47] kids who want to spend their high school
[49:49] building businesses.
[49:51] >> Um, you know, the part that's crazy that
[49:53] parents don't believe, you know, is we
[49:55] you we guarantee that you'll start a
[49:58] business that will earn a million
[50:00] dollars of profit while you're in high
[50:02] school or we give you all your tuition
[50:04] back,
[50:05] >> right? That we absolutely believe that
[50:07] these are skills that can be taught,
[50:09] right, repeatably and reliably where I
[50:11] actually can build a business on that.
[50:13] And, you know, so it actually opened in
[50:15] August. We actually have from Alpha High
[50:17] kids, right? People who've been able to
[50:19] build businesses over the last four
[50:21] years. So, we have data points, but this
[50:23] is now a specialized school for that.
[50:25] And, you know, we it's scaffolded. You
[50:27] know, they come in and they have to earn
[50:29] $100, and there's a set of skills they
[50:31] have to learn, then $1,000, then
[50:33] $10,000, $100,000, and a million dollar.
[50:36] And, you know, we're only a couple
[50:37] months in, you know, to where the
[50:39] process is. And kids are speedr
[50:40] runninging it, and we're like, okay,
[50:43] they're going to earn a million dollars
[50:44] in the first year. like I'm out of
[50:45] curriculum and they're freshman,
[50:47] >> right? And I'm like, "Okay, well, you
[50:49] know, and the the the kids are like,
[50:51] okay, well, I'm going to then obviously
[50:53] just do a bigger one after that." But
[50:55] that concept of can they do this, you
[50:58] know, can you build it? And I believe a
[51:00] lot of it is just, you know, there's a
[51:02] set of skills around it. Um, there's
[51:04] also the the relationships and
[51:06] networking, right? And I think that's,
[51:08] you know, one of the things that uh I
[51:10] believe that you guys are bringing at
[51:13] the university level that we're trying
[51:14] to bring even down in the high school
[51:16] level is just is is um networking,
[51:20] relationship building, you know, on the
[51:22] networking side. A lot of it for kids.
[51:25] You know, I always thought a lot of the
[51:26] magic of Stanford was you had all these
[51:29] luminaries come and then you'd meet them
[51:32] and you'd be like, "Oh, this is like a
[51:33] normal human,
[51:34] >> right?" Yes.
[51:35] >> I mean, they're obviously really
[51:37] impressive, but they're just like a
[51:38] normal human. And it makes it accessible
[51:40] to you to be able to say, "Well, I can
[51:42] do that, too."
[51:43] >> Especially when you're young and dumb
[51:44] and super arrogant. You're like, "Oh, I
[51:46] could do that." Right? And that is that
[51:48] is part of it. And, you know, we're
[51:50] doing the same thing here at the high
[51:51] school level where they're able to build
[51:53] up relationships. You know, actually,
[51:55] one of the stories is one of our
[51:56] 14-year-olds cold called Jensen, right?
[52:00] Literally. and you know he was having a
[52:01] cold call thing and he literally called
[52:03] him and you know and uh Jensen returned
[52:06] the call and uh you know realized it's a
[52:10] kid you know gave him 90 seconds right
[52:13] for his pitch and then the end gave him
[52:16] like really good feedback
[52:17] >> which basically if I had to summarize
[52:19] was you know all these qualification
[52:21] questions you're asking me you could
[52:24] have done research or asked other people
[52:26] in my organization about it and you just
[52:28] used your bullet with me and you should
[52:31] have done your prep work and it would
[52:32] have been much better,
[52:34] >> right? Instead of wasting it by calling
[52:36] me. So, you know, kudos for, you know,
[52:38] aggressiveness, but you get an F on call
[52:42] prep. Y
[52:43] >> okay, that call, okay, that kid, right?
[52:45] He's tweeting about it, right? Everybody
[52:48] in the school, it's like the best
[52:49] learning lesson in that kid's life. And
[52:51] you know, the the the you know, adults,
[52:54] right, successful adults are willing to
[52:56] invest in the next generation. And um I
[52:58] believe that kind of of networking and
[53:00] relationship building that they're going
[53:02] to get um uh at HA is just going to be
[53:06] awesome. Awesome. And more valuable than
[53:08] what normal universities, traditional
[53:10] universities don't do.
[53:11] >> Yeah. It's something that you know Eric
[53:14] is is a true expert at if I may say so
[53:16] myself and uh you and have helped us
[53:20] galvanize this really large network of
[53:23] amazing people from all disciplines um
[53:27] to come and help the the uh HA students
[53:30] like succeed and I think it's really
[53:32] cool what you're doing with founder
[53:33] school as well because I actually know a
[53:35] bunch of people who are speakers or
[53:36] coming in and investing time at Founders
[53:39] School and it's just completely
[53:41] invaluable for a student who's in high
[53:44] school or college level to have the
[53:46] opportunity to get access to that.
[53:48] >> Yeah. No, that is that back to for me
[53:51] that's always that's the most valuable
[53:52] thing and you guys are putting it
[53:54] intentionally at the center of what you
[53:56] guys do and I that's really important.
[53:59] Max Levkin was in this chair a few weeks
[54:01] ago and he was talking about how hey,
[54:03] you know, he was inspired to think so
[54:05] big and so ambitiously because he, you
[54:07] know, worked with Elon, he worked with
[54:08] Reed Hoffman, with David Saxs, and he
[54:10] saw that they, you know, sort of went
[54:12] through the ups and downs. They were
[54:14] just like him. Um, and yeah, hopefully
[54:16] us having, you know, Jensen and Sam
[54:18] Alman and, you know, Satia and all these
[54:20] legends come and share war stories with
[54:23] the kids, share share their ups and
[54:25] downs will uh also Yeah. elevate their
[54:27] ambitions as well.
[54:28] >> It does. And that that point he also
[54:29] made which is your ambition is set you
[54:32] know when for kids
[54:35] >> somebody has to you know there's um I
[54:37] think it was Tyler Cowan who's like the
[54:39] number one thing a teacher can do
[54:41] >> is raise a student's ambition for
[54:43] themselves
[54:43] >> right we try to live that at alpha you
[54:46] know days and I believe that's very much
[54:48] when you sit here is that it's
[54:49] intentionally in your guys design of the
[54:52] people you're getting the culture you're
[54:54] building that you're going to be raising
[54:56] their ambition for what they can do in
[54:57] life And I think that's just so
[54:59] important.
[54:59] >> Yeah. Well, lastly, I'll say from my
[55:01] end, you know, we've been talking about
[55:03] some major differences between sort of K
[55:05] through 12 and college, but one
[55:06] similarity is that, you know, you
[55:08] mentioned 1910 in in the last 100 years,
[55:10] there hasn't been a ton of disruption in
[55:12] the model. There hasn't been a ton of
[55:14] major new entrance certainly on the on
[55:15] the on the college side. And what you
[55:17] guys are doing uh in K through2 and and
[55:20] and college and we're all doing is
[55:22] elevating the ambition of what's
[55:23] possible in in education. and you you
[55:25] guys are are pioneers of the work that
[55:27] you've been doing uh the last few years
[55:29] and and and decade plus. So so I'm
[55:31] inspired to to be part of your
[55:32] respective journeys and yeah, thank you.
[55:34] >> Well, kids are kids are awesome. They
[55:36] can do way more than all of us expect
[55:38] and I believe that coming out of yours,
[55:40] you're going to just raise that to the
[55:42] next level.
[55:43] >> Proud to do this with y'all.
[55:44] >> Yeah. Thank you, Tendon. Thank you.
