## Detailed walkthrough
### [00:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=7s) Emergency Response Infrastructure: The Lifeline and Smart Calling System
During a guided tour of the senior living community (Taikang Home), the guide explains the living rhythm of the residents: seniors remain in their private suites whenever they wish to relax in private, but congregate in the main clubhouse for shared meals, recreational activities, and organized courses. Over in Building 1, the community hosts therapeutic programming such as music therapy sessions and board games. As the visiting crew scouts the spacious facility and settles on spaces to record, the conversation turns directly to resident safety and emergency preparedness.
The staff highlights the physical and digital safety nets woven across the community. Indoor and outdoor spaces are heavily fitted with emergency pull cords, affectionately called the "Lifeline." Beyond fixed pull cords, the community developed portable alarm cards equipped with internal SIM cards for active seniors wandering outdoors. If a senior suffers a sudden fall, the card triggers an immediate location-based alarm to backend staff, revealing their exact coordinates so response teams can dispatch without delay. Inside the private suites, an interactive smart terminal—summoned by calling "Xiao Tai, Xiao Tai"—links residents directly via two-way video to an on-duty steward who monitors calls 24 hours a day, all year round.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Senior Community Emergency Alert Workflow
accDescr: Diagram illustrating how pull cords, wearable alarm cards, and smart room terminals route calls to 24/7 staff.
subgraph Trigger["Emergency Triggers"]
A["Lifeline Pull Cords<br>(12,000+ points across campus)"]
B["Wearable Alarm Card<br>(SIM-enabled outdoor fall detection)"]
C["In-Room Terminal<br>('Xiao Tai' voice call)"]
end
subgraph Response["Dispatch & Care"]
D["24/7 Backend Operations Desk"]
E["Duty Steward Two-Way Video Call"]
F["On-Site Caregiver Dispatch"]
end
A --> D
B --> D
C --> E
D --> F
E --> F
```
- Fixed pull cord points exceed 12,000 community-wide, averaging roughly 3.2 emergency points per 100 square meters both indoors and outdoors.
- The staff member proudly summarizes the density of their physical alert system: “We have over 12,000 of these points throughout the park, averaging 3.2 per 100 square meters, both indoors and outdoors.”
- Portable fall-alarm cards utilize SIM cellular location tracking to pin down elders who collapse while walking outside.
- The smart voice terminal responds immediately to distress calls: “Hello, this is the Tai Home online steward. We are processing your emergency call, please wait a moment.”
- The monitoring desk maintains 24-hour continuous shifts to verify resident condition and provide visual confirmation on screen.
---
[02:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=136s) Assistive Dining and Bathing Technology for Elderly Care
The tour moves to specialized daily-living aids customized to preserve personal autonomy. When age-related degeneration affects dexterity and finger strength, standard utensils become frustrating or impossible to use. The facility equips residents with heat-moldable adaptive spoons: by briefly soaking the utensil in warm water, caregivers can bend the handle to whatever angle matches the elder's residual grip strength. The guide emphasizes that maintaining self-sufficiency in eating carries immense psychological value, as “it promotes independent eating, which is better than being fed by others.”
For seniors living with neurological conditions like Parkinson's disease, the community provides active anti-tremor utensils. These battery-powered devices detect rhythmic involuntary shaking and produce counter-frequencies to stabilize the spoon head, canceling out the tremors so food reaches the mouth without spilling. The presentation also showcases specialized bathing equipment: traditional rigid plastic bath chairs often feel freezing and hostile to fragile seniors, so the community deployed temperature-sensitive, cushioned seating designs. These assisted bathing setups streamline the entire wash cycle, reducing the elder’s time exposed to cold air and dramatically cutting the risk of catching chills or respiratory infections.
---
[03:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=200s) The Aging Simulation Suit: Bridging the Generational Empathy Gap
The staff explains a central human resources challenge in modern senior living: frontline caregiving staff are increasingly young, with the facility's average frontline caregiver age falling to 27 years old. For a caregiver straight out of school, genuinely grasping what life feels like inside an 80-year-old body does not come naturally. To bridge this generational divide, the community mandates training with a comprehensive aging simulation suit that artificially recreates the physical decline, sensory dampening, and joint stiffness of advanced age.
Intrigued, Dou Wentao volunteers to try on the full rig. Caregivers begin strapping on the apparatus piece by piece, starting with restraint bands around his neck and chest designed to pull his posture forward into an involuntary, stooped hunch. As the staff tightens the harness, they explain that age-related vision loss is not just blurring; peripheral vision constricts into a narrow tunnel, often exacerbated by cataracts or glaucoma, meaning seniors literally cannot see someone approaching from the side. Weight packs, limb braces, and ear muffs are added to simulate stiff arthritic joints, chronic muscle depletion, and diminished hearing. The staff remarks: “For a young person fresh out of school, it’s actually quite hard to empathize with our 80-year-old residents, so we use this aging simulation system, which they are wearing now.”
- Frontline nursing and caregiving staff at the community now average 27 years of age.
- Vision goggles restrict the wearer’s sightline to a small, low-resolution circular tunnel.
- Weighted sandbags and joint restraints recreate the persistent, unrefreshing heaviness that older adults experience even after a full night of sleep.
- As the guide notes during the fitting: “Aging is a state where every part of the body experiences decline.”
---
[07:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=427s) Walking in an 80-Year-Old’s Shoes: Sensory Deprivation, Fatigue, and Parkinson's Reflection
Once fully fitted with the restraint bands, heavy vest, clouded goggles, and muffling headset, Dou Wentao jokes that he feels like he is being interrogated under duress. When told to stand up, the reality of the physical burden hits immediately: he cannot straighten his spine. Supported by the staff, he attempts to take small steps across the flat floor, discovering that his field of vision is restricted to a patch of ground right in front of his feet. “I can walk without the cane, but my field of view is too small,” Dou Wentao observes as he cautiously navigates a gentle incline and three small steps.
Every movement demands immense effort. His neck aches from fighting the harness, his lower back throbs, and his wrists and ankles feel as though they are weighted down with lead. Even with a walking cane, his equilibrium feels precarious—his upper body feels overwhelmingly heavy while his feet feel unstable and disconnected from the floor. Attempting a jog results in nothing more than slow, shuffling steps in place. Drenched in sweat after merely a few minutes, Dou Wentao is deeply shaken, remarking how terrifying it is to live in a world where sound is muted, sight is narrowed to a tiny circle, and the body feels perpetually exhausted. He reflects with raw emotion: “All the sounds seem like they are coming from behind a thick fog,” noting that experiencing this physical restriction firsthand brings back vivid, painful memories of his late father’s struggle with Parkinson's disease in his final years.
[22:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=1358s) The Dilemma of Bodily Failure vs. Mental Decline: Zhu Rui and Reagan
The panel examines the profound tragedy that occurs when a person's cognitive faculties remain razor-sharp while their physical body collapses, contrasting it with the reverse scenario of dementia. A poignant example raised is the late Renmin University philosophy professor Zhu Rui, who documented his final journey in *The Philosopher's Last Moment*. While receiving palliative care in the hospice ward at Haidian Hospital, Zhu was interviewed by a reporter and confessed that his greatest, most unreachable ambition had shrunk to something deceptively ordinary: just being able to get out of bed, slip across the street to a small restaurant, sit down, and savor a warm bowl of soup. He was physically unable to fulfill even that modest wish, highlighting the heartbreaking dilemma of whether extended life retains meaning when either the mind or the body completely deteriorates.
The conversation turns to public perceptions of intellectual decay, citing the death of former U.S. President Ronald Reagan after his protracted battle with Alzheimer's disease. Media obituaries and commentaries argued that Reagan had effectively passed away many years earlier, leaving behind merely an empty shell or a lingering shadow. Some commentators even claimed it would have been better for his family had he died earlier from an illness like cancer. Hu Yong strongly rejects this detached perspective, having published his own critique arguing that observers fail to comprehend the bond between a dying elder and their loved ones. Outside commentators measure an individual solely by their social utility and intellectual capacity, judging a person whose mind is gone as already departed from the world, yet family members still find deep, irreplaceable meaning in the mere presence of a demented or vegetative relative.
> “I specifically wrote something about how they all underestimate the significance of that person to their family, regardless of whether their body or brain is failing.” — Hu Yong
---
[24:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=1485s) The Complexity of Euthanasia and the "Cinderella" Dilemma
The debate expands to whether patients in vegetative states or advanced dementia should be kept alive solely for their families, prompting Hu Yong to address the widespread, naive enthusiasm for euthanasia on social media. Whenever end-of-life care is discussed publicly, comment sections overflow with demands to legalize euthanasia immediately. Hu explains that the public fundamentally oversimplifies an agonizingly intricate legal, ethical, and clinical issue, conflating euthanasia with assisted suicide and assisted dying. Beyond the constant danger of a slippery slope—where societal or familial pressure might inadvertently cause individuals to die who otherwise should not—jurisdictions that have legalized end-of-life assistance enforce stringent prerequisites. Typically, at least two certified physicians must confirm that a patient is in an irreversible terminal stage with less than six months to live.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: The Cinderella Dilemma in Cognitive Decline
accDescr: A decision flowchart showing the narrow window for choosing assisted dying before legal autonomy is lost.
subgraph PreTerminal["Early Stage (Autonomy Intact)"]
A["Lucid Diagnosis & Will"] --> B["'11:55 PM' Decision Window"]
end
subgraph Threshold["The Legal Cutoff"]
B -->|"Risk: Choosing premature death"| C["Preemptive Decision Made"]
B -->|"Hesitation or changing mind"| D["Cognitive Capacity Lost ('12:05 AM')"]
end
subgraph Terminal["Late Stage (Incapacitated)"]
D --> E["Transferred to Family / Legal Guardians"]
D --> F["Cannot Legally Request Euthanasia"]
end
```
For patients diagnosed with degenerative conditions like Alzheimer's disease, the legal requirement for autonomous, informed consent creates an existential bind compared to Cinderella leaving the royal ball before midnight:
- Patients realize that they must exercise their free will before cognitive decline strips them of legal decision-making capacity.
- They are forced to make an irrevocable choice at "11:55 PM," because past midnight ("12:05 AM"), their autonomy is legally extinguished and left entirely to family discretion.
- Making the decision early at "11:05 PM" presents a terrible hazard: patients might end their lives prematurely out of fear, without knowing how long their mild, dignified period might endure.
- The irreversible nature of the decision denies individuals the opportunity to change their minds as their feelings or circumstances evolve near the end.
> “They say you must make this decision by 11:55, because at 12:05 you can't, as it's then up to your family to decide.” — Hu Yong
---
[26:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=1606s) Facial Recognition: The Inhumanity of Digital Verification for the Dying
The philosophical discussion descends into the humiliating bureaucratic obstacles imposed on dying patients by modern digital administration. As an elderly parent loses consciousness, families are still required to settle administrative matters such as accessing bank accounts, verifying urban residency, or validating pension credentials. Modern software demands automated biometric facial recognition, oblivious to the reality of patients hooked up to life-support systems with feeding tubes jammed into their noses, oxygen tubes in their mouths, and adhesive tape plastered across their skin. Dou Wentao shares an agonizing personal memory of attempting to complete a mobile facial verification for his dying father, whose consciousness was fading and who could no longer sign his name on paper.
Dou recalls breaking down in tears in the hospital room after multiple failed attempts on the phone screen. Sympathizing with his distress, the attending doctor temporarily unplugged the feeding and breathing tubes and gently peeled back the medical tape. Dou held the phone over his father's face, following the on-screen prompts to capture his features. Miraculously, whether through a brief flicker of subconscious awareness or pure chance, his father aligned his gaze with the lens, blinked on cue, and successfully cleared the algorithm. Dou was overcome with pride and relief, marveling at how his father had remained meticulous and reliable down to his final moments. Another guest recounts experiencing an identical ordeal at an automated bank terminal that strictly prohibited surrogate verification, forcing families to rely on sheer luck that a deteriorating elder might blink or turn their head at the exact necessary second.
> “That facial recognition requires you to blink first and then shake your head; many elderly people can't do that.” — Dou Wentao
---
[28:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=1731s) Fearing Suffering Over Death: Zhou Yijun’s Three Savings for Old Age
Reflecting on these harrowing administrative encounters, the guests note that the core terror surrounding old age is not death itself, but the dread of protracted physical and psychological suffering preceding it. People can rationally accept the natural closure of human existence, yet the prospect of enduring helplessness, decay, and bodily pain provokes deep existential panic. Dou Wentao references an interview project in which Zhou Yijun spoke with 40 elderly individuals, leading to a headline where she claimed she was no longer afraid of getting old. Zhou clarifies her actual sentiment: she is not immune to fear, but speaking extensively with seniors transformed her abstract dread into a concrete understanding of what physical decay entails, replacing paralyzing resistance with realistic foresight.
Zhou explains that the only effective hedge against this future decline is to begin proactive preparation while still young by systematically accumulating three vital reserves:
1. **Saving Muscle**: Engaging in consistent physical training, such as weightlifting, to stave off the natural muscular loss and atrophy that cripples elderly independence.
2. **Saving Money**: Establishing financial security to cushion the substantial medical and caregiving costs required in later years.
3. **Saving Spiritual Life**: Cultivating inner resilience, hobbies, and psychological grounding so that one does not collapse when physical vitality diminishes.
The group engages in lighthearted banter over muscle preservation, debating whether aging inevitably brings muscle atrophy regardless of athletic history, while agreeing that proactive conditioning turns passive decay into manageable loss.
> “I realized there might be one thing you can do: start slowly now, while you're young, and begin saving up some muscle, some money, and some spiritual life for yourself.” — Zhou Yijun
---
[30:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=1817s) The Final Game of Mahjong: Preserving Passion and Dignity at the End
The mood shifts into intimate reflection as a speaker shares a memory of his late father's final months. Acknowledging that death arrives far more abruptly than one anticipates, he recalls watching his father waste away from severe illness, caught in that ambiguous "late stage" where no one knows exactly how much time remains. Wanting to grant his father genuine happiness before the end, he decided to organize one final game of mahjong. His father had loved the game passionately throughout his life, having first taught the speaker the rules when the child was merely five years old. Knowing his father possessed almost no physical strength left, the speaker and his sister sat down at the table, watching their father summon every reserve of energy he had left to play.
Understanding that this would be their final game together, the speaker made a conscious choice not to patronize his father by deliberately feeding him tiles or letting him win easily. Faking the match would have stripped away the authentic joy, competitive friction, and emotional thrill that define the game. Treating his father as a genuine competitor made the match the most emotionally agonizing yet beautiful game he had ever played, punctuated by raised blood pressure and intense concentration rather than polite pity. His father passed away eight or nine months later. While families inevitably harbor regrets after a loved one dies, the speaker finds enduring solace in having granted his father that final spark of competitive passion and vitality.
> “That game was the most painful one I ever played, knowing it was the last time I’d play mahjong with my father.” — Guest / Dou Wentao
嘉宾们从老年人沉迷短视频切入，聊到了轰动一时的“假靳东”诈骗案。全国政协委员靳东在两会期间曾郑重提及，有大量深爱他的老年影迷遭受了 AI 换脸诈骗。这种现象在银发群体中并不罕见，甚至形成了一种独特的现象。六七十岁的“黄大妈”因为深信网上的“靳东”在向自己表白，不仅跟老伴分房睡、特意染了头发，还执意要独自前往长春寻找“东弟”，闹着要与对方结婚；另有阿姨在短视频打赏中被骗了整整二十万元。视频中的 AI 假靳东通过“我虽然是明星，但我也是普通人，我也渴望真挚的情感”等温柔话术，精准击中了中老年女性空虚的内心。
[52:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=3159s) Redefining the Life Arc: Hong Kong Stars, the "Odyssey Years," and Bonus Decades
The discussion opens with the creeping realization of one’s own aging while navigating care for elderly parents. Looking around at cultural reference points, the panelists note that aging has become unmistakably visible in popular media and cinema. Cultural icons from Hong Kong cinema who defined previous generations—Andy Lau, Tony Leung Chiu-wai, and Chow Yun-fat—are now firmly in their sixties and seventies yet remain active A-listers. As one speaker reflects on this generational visibility: “When we see that these influential figures in the film industry are already in their 60s and 70s, how can you not think about yourself?” This cultural visibility, combined with broader surveys, is prompting younger cohorts to confront aging far earlier than previous generations ever did.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Modern Expanded Life Stages
accDescr: A breakdown of the modern life cycle showing extended transitions from youth to post-retirement bonus years.
subgraph Early["Youth & Drifting"]
A["Adolescence"]
B["Odyssey Years (18–35)<br>Drifting & Unsettled"]
end
subgraph Mid["Adulthood"]
C["Full Adulthood & Career"]
end
subgraph Later["Extended Later Life"]
D["Early Retirement (60–75)<br>'Bonus Time' / Active Health"]
E["Advanced Age (75–100)<br>Physical Decline & Care Needs"]
end
A --> B
B --> C
C --> D
D --> E
```
Traditional demographic categories—childhood, youth, middle age, and old age—no longer match lived reality. If the human lifespan stretches toward a 100-year horizon, the post-60 phase is no longer a brief twilight of quietly living out one's remaining years; it constitutes a forty-year span, effectively half a lifetime. At the other end of the spectrum, youth has expanded into what American sociologists term the "Odyssey Years" spanning ages 18 to 35. Graduating from college no longer signals immediate adult independence; many individuals in their twenties and thirties remain unsettled, drifting, and financially reliant on their parents. Consequently, the window between retirement at age 60 and the onset of steep physical decline around age 75 has emerged as a distinct, healthy "bonus time" that demands deliberate life planning.
- Hong Kong cinema icons illustrating modern longevity include Andy Lau (over 60), Tony Leung Chiu-wai (over 60), and Chow Yun-fat (over 70).
- Demographers and cultural critics identify the "Odyssey Years" between ages 18 and 35 as an extended period of unsettled pre-adulthood.
- The 60-to-75 window represents an active early retirement phase where individuals generally retain good health before advanced age sets in.
---
[55:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=3349s) Seneca’s Lesson: Muscle, Savings, and Cultivating Inner Passions
Addressing how to spend this extended lifespan, the speakers draw inspiration from classical philosophy, specifically Seneca’s essay *On the Shortness of Life*. Seneca argued that while life feels acutely brief, it is long enough if utilized meaningfully. The conversation touches on how young people often treat retirement as an abstract, impossibly distant prospect, failing to accumulate the resources required for later life. As one speaker urges: “That’s why I keep emphasizing that we need to start building muscle, saving money, and cultivating intellectual interests.” Neglecting early preparation leaves people arriving at later decades unprepared, resembling animals that failed to gather sufficient provisions before entering hibernation.
The panelists joke about their own physical condition, with one participant remarking that their recent training has left them thin rather than muscular, though still spirited. While financial anxiety often dominates public discourse—with viral internet discussions asserting that savings running into the millions may still prove insufficient—the speakers emphasize that inner psychological resources are just as vital as capital. Developing deep personal hobbies provides a stable mental sanctuary where a person can happily spend entire days engaged, buffering them against loneliness and emotional decline in old age.
- Seneca’s philosophical principle asserts that life is adequately long if one knows how to manage and employ their time productively.
- Three critical pillars must be prepared well before old age: physical muscle mass, financial savings, and intellectual or personal hobbies.
- Emotional resilience in retirement heavily depends on having absorbing interests that can sustain an active inner life.
---
[58:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=3488s) The Institutional Shift: Vacancy Paradox and the Myth of Raising Children for Old Age
Turning to institutional elderly care, the conversation examines the structural paradox facing China's nursing homes: a glaring mismatch between supply and demand. Rather than a simple shortage of beds, facilities suffer from high vacancy rates. Elite, high-end care facilities carry prohibitive price tags beyond the reach of ordinary families, whereas budget, low-end facilities offer inadequate conditions and substandard care that families reject. For grassroots populations, even modest institutional costs remain a heavy burden, compounded by lingering traditional mindsets.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: Structural Dynamics of Elderly Care
accDescr: The shift from traditional family-based care to institutional and market-driven solutions.
subgraph Traditional["Traditional Model (Failing)"]
F1["'Raise Children for Old Age'"]
F2["Life Savings & Energy Spent on Child"]
F1 --> F2
end
subgraph MarketMismatch["Current Market Bottleneck"]
M1["Premium Facilities<br>(Prohibitively Expensive)"]
M2["Low-End Facilities<br>(Substandard Conditions)"]
M3["High Vacancy Rates"]
end
subgraph Future["Future Demand"]
S1["Professionalized Caregivers"]
S2["Destigmatized Service Roles"]
end
Traditional -.->|"Demographic Decline"| Future
MarketMismatch -->|"Service Upgrades Needed"| Future
```
The speakers challenge the historical adage of "raising children to provide for old age," arguing that in modern society, parents expend their retirement savings, physical health, and energy raising children without any realistic guarantee of eldercare in return. With steep population declines underway, the burden will inevitably shift toward market services and institutions. This structural change will require professionalizing the caregiving sector. In contrast to places like Thailand, where younger and educated workers enter service and care industries, domestic care workers still face social stigma during events like blind dates, where jobs such as changing adult diapers are unfairly looked down upon despite impending severe labor shortages.
- The elderly care sector exhibits a high vacancy rate driven by an affordability gap at the top tier and quality deficits at the bottom tier.
- Demographic decline is eroding the traditional family safety net, forcing reliance onto commercial institutions and professional service markets.
- Caregiving professions suffer from social stigma, even though rising demand will make skilled elderly care workers indispensable.
---
[59:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=3580s) "Waiting for Death": Fieldwork Realities Inside County-Level Nursing Homes
The reality of grassroots eldercare is illuminated by sociological fieldwork conducted by a scholar from Wuxi who investigated a county-level nursing home in Southern Jiangsu. In this facility, monthly nursing and meal fees totaled over 3,000 yuan, accommodating residents from both town and rural backgrounds. The home was stratified by physical ability: mobile residents occupied floors one through four, while disabled and cognitively impaired seniors were concentrated on the fifth floor and above. In their local dialect, the residents described their daily existence with a grim idiom: "waiting for death." Their routine amounted to eating three meals a day and numbly watching the hours pass, evoking the opening imagery of Martin Scorsese’s film *The Irishman*, where elderly residents sit motionless in wheelchairs staring into space without even the television on.
Beyond social isolation, institutional risk management often strips residents of their basic agency. Caregivers, anxious about potential falls that lead to family disputes and liability claims, actively discourage residents from moving. When one resident dropped cookie crumbs and bent down to sweep them up, the attendant ordered her to freeze and keep eating. The staff—predominantly middle-aged rural women referred to as "Aunties"—perform exhausting physical labor, such as maneuvering heavy, immobile residents into wheelchairs, while enduring low social status. As one speaker sums up the systemic dynamic inside these county-level institutions: “So, what is the situation like in these county-level nursing homes? It means that, in a way, the elderly are actually having their freedom restricted.”
- A Southern Jiangsu county facility charges upwards of 3,000 yuan per month, separating mobile residents (floors 1–4) from disabled or cognitively impaired residents (floor 5 and above).
- Residents describe their life of passive routine as "waiting for death," spending long hours sitting immobilized in wheelchairs.
- Fear of financial liability and family compensation claims causes staff to severely restrict residents' movements and daily independence.
- Frontline caregivers are predominantly rural middle-aged women performing taxing physical labor under conditions of mutual frustration and limited social respect.
[01:11:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=4306s) The Human Procession, the Silver Economy, and the End of Childhood
The conversation opens with an image shared from a family member about the generational procession of life. At the very back of the line, the elderly grow increasingly hunched until they collapse onto the ground and cry out. A person in the prime of life standing in the middle turns around, helps the elder up, and tries to keep moving forward, but the elder falls again after just a few steps. The caregiver looks back once more as the elder calls out, but ultimately is forced to press forward because the children are leading the way ahead. While this represents a harsh biological law of succession, there is hope that modern society now has the conditions to soften its cruelty. Connecting this to Professor Hu Yong’s observations, the participants note the immense potential of the “silver economy.” Rather than viewing it as profiting off the aged, it reveals where care is still profoundly insufficient and demands products designed with the same attentive dedication that society gives to children.
```mermaid
flowchart LR
accTitle: The Generational Procession of Life
accDescr: Diagram illustrating the generational push and pull between aging parents, middle-aged caregivers, and children.
A["Aging Parents<br/>(Growing frail and falling behind)"] -->|"Calls for support"| B["Caregiver in Prime<br/>(Turns back to assist)"]
B -->|"Must move forward"| C["Children Ahead<br/>(Leading the way into the future)"]
```
The discussion turns to the emotional burden and persistent guilt adult children carry when they cannot remain by their aging parents’ sides. One speaker shares a hard-won peace of mind: “One thing I've realized is that as long as your parents are around, your childhood never really ends; you remain a child until the day they leave.” Because of this dynamic, adult children inevitably fall into being somewhat willful or dependent, expecting parents to cover restaurant bills even after entering the workforce, and finding it nearly impossible to care for parents with the unconditional devotion they once received. A speaker recalls spending an entire Mother’s Day taking the children out to play and expecting wishes from them, only to realize at nightfall with a pang of shock that they had not thought of their own mother the entire day. Rather than indulging in self-blame, the speaker recognized this as moving forward: stepping up to the very front line of responsibility, where no one else remains to carry the weight. When asked when memory catches them off guard, a speaker explains that they never dream of their mother, but at a public event, they took a photo with the wife of Mr. Xu Zizong (a beloved television star from their childhood), instinctively thinking, “I want to take this photo to show my mom,” before being struck by the sudden reality that she was already gone.
---
[01:15:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=4510s) The Temporal Nature of Guilt and Lessons from Shi Tiesheng
The conversation shifts directly to Professor Hu Yong, who famously stepped back from his routine duties as a university professor to provide hands-on, round-the-clock care for his mother at home until her final days. When asked whether paying such a profound personal price freed him from regret after her passing, Hu Yong reveals that he is frequently approached by family caregivers—especially as conditions like Alzheimer’s disease trend younger, leaving post-90s generation children to tend to sick parents. When they ask for guidance, Hu Yong gives them four words: “Do not feel guilty.” He explains that guilt is an emotion with an inherently temporal structure; it exists only looking backward in time. At the moment an event occurred, you acted according to your abilities and constraints; you feel guilty in hindsight because you now reflect with a maturity or understanding you did not possess then.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: The Retrospective Architecture of Caregiver Guilt
accDescr: Flow showing how past actions and limitations convert into present-day guilt through temporal reflection.
subgraph Past["At the Time of Caregiving"]
P1["Immediate Physical / Mental Exhaustion"]
P2["Conflict and Inevitable Frustration"]
P3["Doing the absolute best under the circumstances"]
end
subgraph Present["Hindsight and Reflection"]
R1["Temporal Reflection"]
R2["Growth in Subjective Awareness"]
R3["Emergence of Guilt"]
end
P1 --> R1
P2 --> R1
P3 --> R1
R1 --> R2
R2 --> R3
R3 -.->|"Reframed as"| E["Proof of growth and maximum effort given"]
```
Hu Yong stresses that no matter how much a caregiver sacrifices, guilt is impossible to escape entirely. Rather than the idiom of “the rabbit dies and the fox grieves,” he describes the caregiving journey as “seeing oneself in others”—watching one's parents gradually decline and die forces an encounter with one’s own inevitable aging. Through this lens, one learns that the present moment, however difficult, is the best it will ever be, because things only deteriorate further. He recalls drawing strength during those draining days from writer Shi Tiesheng’s *Fragments of Illness* (*Bing Xi Sui Bi*):
> “When I was in a wheelchair, I didn't feel like a person, because humans are meant to walk upright; how could I no longer walk? But when I was lying in bed, even when I was bedridden and developed bedsores, I missed the time when I was in the wheelchair.”
In the face of chronic decline, disaster can always worsen. Hu Yong describes how caregivers become overwhelmed by friction—arguing with parents who resist help or refuse to let them rest, losing control, and shouting in frustration, only to be flooded with regret afterward. Yet the most agonizing phase comes later: when the parent becomes silent and stops calling out entirely, leaving the caregiver longing desperately for the days when they still had the strength to argue. Hu Yong concludes that caregivers must trust they gave their utmost at each moment: feeling guilty in retrospect merely proves one’s subjective awareness and emotional capacity have deepened. Having been present to witness the final moments of both of his parents, Hu Yong reflects that walking through that ultimate threshold transforms how one chooses to live one's remaining life.
- Post-90s caregivers are increasingly facing early-onset Alzheimer’s diagnoses among their parents.
- Hu Yong highlights Shi Tiesheng’s formulation that every disaster can always have the qualifier “more” attached to it.
- Caregiver guilt is defined as a temporal phenomenon: hindsight judges past limitations with present-day awareness.
[01:21:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=4867s) Cognitive Reserve, Muscle Memory, and Preparing for Physical Decline
The discussion opens with reflections on how surviving adult children carry the legacy of their late parents. Continuing to live well serves as a profound signal that one is thriving despite loss, honoring what parents would have wished. The intense focus and energy devoted to examining elderly care is framed as an obligation driven directly by the strength drawn from them. Turning to Professor Hu Yong, who navigated the grueling, complete journey of caring for his parents, the panel asks whether this firsthand ordeal provided him with practical foresight and distinct preparation for his own inevitable aging. Hu Yong aligns his philosophy with Zhou Yijun's perspective, summarizing the core requirement into a single concept: reserve.
Hu Yong outlines the twofold significance of building reserve well before old age arrives. The first dimension is physiological: consistent physical training builds muscle memory, transforming conscious efforts into instinctive physical resilience so that the body acts reliably without deliberation. The second dimension is psychological readiness, echoing the idiom of having provisions on hand to ensure a calm heart. Facing extreme physical dependency—such as the unavoidable reality of having someone else clean and wipe you—demands cognitive reserve so an individual can surrender their bodily dignity without humiliation and simply think, "Whatever, let them clean me." To illustrate the consequences of lacking this cognitive preparation, a panelist recounts encountering an elderly patient unable to urinate who adamantly refused a necessary catheterization procedure, viewing it as unbearable torture because his mindset was anchored in decades-old medical memories. Although physicians pleaded that modern medical procedures are minor and designed to bring immediate relief, his rigid fear paralyzed him. The panel warns against falling into the tragedy of seniors in intensive care who only realize in hindsight that they should have trained their bodies and minds years earlier.
- Physical reserve relies on regular exercise to forge durable muscle memory, allowing older bodies to perform essential movements instinctively.
- Cognitive reserve provides the psychological buffer necessary to accept invasive personal assistance, such as diaper changes or bed baths, without devastating one's self-worth.
- As one panelist observed regarding medical panic and physical frailty, “We shouldn't wait until we're lying there waiting for someone to clean us up before wishing we’d worked on our muscles or something else.”
[01:23:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=5020s) Caregiver Bonds, the 'Three Nos,' and a Father's Secret Tears
The conversation turns toward Ma Ka-fai, teasing him about his strong attachment to personal pride and questioning how he would handle being bedridden and dependent for ten or twenty years. Ka-fai notes a popular Hong Kong maxim outlining the ideal aging condition: avoiding the "three nos"—no stroke, no Alzheimer's disease, and no prolonged bedridden state. He reflects on the complex, nuanced relationships that develop between vulnerable seniors and their caregivers. While sensational headlines frequently cover extreme disputes—such as a billionaire willing eighty percent of his vast estate to an attendant who nursed him during his final three years—the everyday reality often involves profound mutual dependence and quiet reciprocity, where older and younger caregivers care for others in the hope that society will return the favor when their own time comes.
```mermaid
flowchart TD
accTitle: Caregiver Dynamics and Vulnerability
accDescr: Diagram illustrating the emotional flow of elder care, parental vulnerability, and caregiving promises within the household.
subgraph HongKongIdeal["Hong Kong Ideal of Aging"]
ThreeNos["'Three Nos'<br/>• No Stroke<br/>• No Alzheimer's<br/>• No Bedridden State"]
end
subgraph HouseholdBond["Domestic Care Dynamics"]
Father["Father<br/>Concealed distress from children"]
Helper["Filipino Domestic Helper<br/>Recipient of raw emotional truth"]
Mother["Mother<br/>Cared for until the end"]
Father -->|"Broke down crying in hospital over wife's future"| Helper
Helper -->|"Solemn promise: 'I will see you through until the end'"| Mother
end
ThreeNos -.-> HouseholdBond
```
Ka-fai shares a deeply personal account regarding his family's long-term domestic helper from the Philippines, who previously looked after him and now tends to his aging mother with exceptional warmth and devotion. His mother continually harbored anxiety that the helper’s labor contract would expire, forcing her to return overseas to her own children. Only recently did the helper disclose an intimate moment that had occurred two years prior: Ka-fai’s father, a man Ka-fai had never once seen shed a tear, completely broke down weeping in his hospital room before passing away. He did not expose his despair to his son or daughter; instead, he unburdened his heart entirely to the foreign domestic helper, agonizing over what would happen to his wife after he was gone. In response, the helper pledged to him that she would remain and care for his wife until the very end before returning to the Philippines.
- Hong Kong's cultural benchmark for a dignified old age centers on escaping severe incapacitation: “In Hong Kong, people usually say that if you have 'three nos'—no stroke, no Alzheimer's, no bedridden state—life is much better.”
- Caregiver bonds routinely transcend commercial employment, establishing deep, non-romantic intimacy built on shared vulnerability and trust.
- The domestic worker honored the father's dying wish, reassuring the mother: “Don't worry, I promised him I would see you through until the end.”
[01:26:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=5189s) The Capacity for Love, Human Freedom, and Choosing Goodness
Examining the emotional demands placed upon care workers, the speakers cite academic research by Professor Wu Xingyue on nursing homes. When interviewing institutionalized elders, Wu discovered a recurring sentiment: residents insist above all that a caregiver must possess a heart full of genuine love. While social science researchers often brush aside this requirement as unrealistic for ordinary wage labor, the panel acknowledges that when someone is facing the end of life, technical skill alone feels insufficient. Professional caregivers, doctors, and nurses who sustain genuine warmth toward non-relatives perform a service that surpasses ordinary callings. This impulse connects directly to Mencius's famous observation that any human seeing an infant crawl toward the edge of an open well naturally experiences spontaneous alarm and compassion—an innate element of shared human nature.
The dialogue expands into literature and moral philosophy, invoking a book talk where author Zhang Dachun highlighted that being human is ultimately a matter of personal agency. Drawing on insights from philosopher Zhao Tingyang of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, the speakers trace the uniqueness of human freedom back to classical Confucian thought. Unlike animals ruled strictly by instinct, humans possess the freedom of negative restraint: the ability to state, "I don't have to be like this," or to intentionally yield to another. True human freedom is not about acquiring external fortune, wealth, or beauty, which remain beyond personal control, but about moral autonomy. As Confucius stated, benevolence arrives the moment one desires it. One speaker confesses to weeping during films like *Batman* and *Transformers* whenever a protagonist reminds an adversary that one always retains the choice to do good. Practicing kindness toward an elder costs nothing and requires no external permission, embodying what Wang Yangming identified as innate knowledge residing within every heart. The segment concludes with a panelist recalling a period television drama set in a 1970s or 1980s middle school, where an ostentatious, wealthy parent wearing gold chains barged into a classroom demanding to search students' bags for a lost item, setting up a confrontation over student dignity.
- Human moral freedom is defined through self-restraint and the conscious choice to act against selfish impulse: “Confucius meant that practicing benevolence depends on oneself, not others.”
- Material advantages like wealth or physical beauty depend on circumstance, whereas moral generosity is universally accessible: “And this is actually the easiest thing to do.”
- Wang Yangming's doctrine of "innate knowledge" confirms that the intuitive compass to act kindly and protect the vulnerable remains inherent in all people: “It resides in everyone's heart.”
[01:49:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=6558s) Digital Immortality, Anti-Aging, and the Urge to Live Longer
The discussion turns toward the rapid rise of artificial intelligence and the human obsession with conquering death. Dou Wentao reflects on how technologists and transhumanists are aggressively pursuing concepts like digital immortality and consciousness uploading, attempting to preserve the human mind within machines. In parallel, physical anti-aging interventions have become the playground of the super-rich; Wentao points to a prominent Silicon Valley tech executive who spends vast fortunes attempting to halt aging, resorting to regular plasma transfusions simply because he has the financial means to do so. This tech founder openly claims that mortality is unacceptable, questioning why human beings must die at all. Wentao, however, is deeply skeptical of this ambition, questioning what genuine benefit endless life would offer if one’s appetite for experience eventually runs dry. When a guest counters that the world is filled with unseen places and endless discoveries, Wentao notes that our fierce love for life only exists because mortality gives it urgency: we cherish living precisely because we know we will die.
Ma Jiahui immediately validates this connection between curiosity and the desire to live, recounting a poignant story about his doctoral advisor in the United States, whom he describes as the last true American socialist. Following the professor's death, his family and students compiled his personal notes and final interviews. In them, the professor confessed that he desperately wanted to cling to life just a little longer, not out of fear or hedonism, but to witness three specific things: first, to see whether his beloved granddaughter would grow up happy and follow a good moral direction; second, to discover where the dizzying frontier of human technology and AI—which now evolves in leaps every three months—will ultimately take mankind; and third, to see what historical stage the socialist ideals he championed his entire life would eventually reach. As Ma Jiahui underscores, the longing for continued existence among profound thinkers often transcends personal comfort: “So, not wanting to die isn't necessarily for one's own sake—to keep eating, drinking, and having fun.” Rather, it stems from pure intellectual curiosity and deep concern for humanity's shared destiny.
- Silicon Valley executives and transhumanists pursue biological anti-aging regimens, blood plasma transfusions, and digital consciousness uploading to evade physical death.
- Dou Wentao argues that human appreciation for life is fundamentally anchored in its finitude.
- Ma Jiahui's PhD mentor identified three reasons to extend life: watching his granddaughter mature happily, seeing the ultimate destination of rapid AI advancements, and witnessing the historical trajectory of socialism.
[01:52:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=6723s) The Curse of Immortality Without Connection and Acceptance of Death
When asked for her stance on eternal life, Zhou Yijun contends that achieving immortality would fundamentally rupture and reshape the human definition of living. To illustrate, she references a fantasy film centered on a biblical figure who lives undetected across centuries. In the narrative, the immortal protagonist is forced to pack up and move every ten years because everyone around him ages and dies while he remains unchanged. Far from being a blessing, his immortality turns into an exhausting, tragic existence where all personal reference points wither away, leaving him utterly isolated and longing for death. The panel links this fictional dilemma to the real-life case of a centenarian Australian biologist who chose to end his life via voluntary assisted dying in Switzerland; despite still possessing relatively functional physical health, the scientist explained that every contemporary he had ever loved or known was gone, completely draining his existence of connection and meaning.
The conversation deepens around the essential relationship between mortality and human dignity. One of the speakers puts the philosophical bottom line succinctly: “Right, I think we still have to die, because death gives everything meaning.” The panel recalls the ancient Greek myth of Tithonus, who asked the gods for immortality but forgot to ask for eternal youth, condemning himself to endless decay, decrepitude, and neglect. If extreme longevity merely translates to chronic illness and total physical dependency, living forever becomes a curse rather than a gift. Dou Wentao aligns himself with Confucian moderation, observing that while he would be curious to witness the future if science can prevent aging, he embraces the natural rhythm of mortality when his time arrives. For Wentao, death carries the comforting prospect of reuniting with his departed parents. The gathering closes with playful banter as the guests tease Wentao—imagining a scenario where his parents reincarnate as newborns searching for him just after he departs—before the table laughs off the existential weight and raises a toast to simply staying happy.
- Zhou Yijun illustrates the psychological burden of immortality through the story of a man compelled to relocate every decade as his friends age and pass away.
- A prominent Australian botanist over 100 years old traveled to Switzerland for assisted suicide after outliving all his contemporaries and losing his social connections.
- The myth of Tithonus serves as a cautionary tale: desiring endless life without guaranteed youth and vigor leads to perpetual decrepitude.
- Dou Wentao maintains a pragmatic, open-minded view on death, seeing mortality as an opportunity to reunite with late family members rather than an enemy to resist.
## Notable quotes
> [01:11:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=4306s) One thing I've realized is that as long as your parents are around, your childhood never really ends; you remain a child until the day they leave.
> [01:32:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=5555s) I truly believe that even if your parents didn't treat you well, you still have to take care of them. — 胡泳
> [01:38:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbmvtl4KA&t=5902s) people are really already selfish enough. Seriously, you don't need to teach selfishness. — 窦文涛
[71:46] One thing I've realized is that as long as your parents are around, your childhood never really ends; you remain a child until the day they leave.
[13:50] 窦文涛: 原本我们按照70岁平均寿命写的生命脚本，实际上必须重写了。
[63:41] 你不能说等制度完善了、培训跟上了，我再变老。
[66:59] 社会对小孩子是充满希望的，但对老人，有时候真的是一种人类的宿命。
[44:38] 周轶君: 在我的理想老境里——虽然我觉得我大概达不到——我想泯然于江湖。
[92:35] 胡泳: I truly believe that even if your parents didn't treat you well, you still have to take care of them.
[16:54] 胡泳: 少年夫妻老来伴，中年可能吵得不可开交，但是到了晚年，你开始体会到一种相互的温情。
[98:22] 窦文涛: people are really already selfish enough. Seriously, you don't need to teach selfishness.
Original transcript
[0:07] The seniors stay in their rooms if they
[0:09] wish, but for meals, activities, and
[0:11] classes, they come out to the clubhouse
[0:13] .
[0:17] Over in Building 1, we mostly have
[0:19] things like music therapy classes and
[0:21] board games.
[0:25] >> Film them, film that side, it's bigger
[0:27] there, you go there.
[0:30] >> Yes, yes, yes.
[0:31] >> Today's elder lamp.
[0:32] >> I've found your room for you.
[0:34] >> I found it, I've booked it, you're right
[0:36] , I've looked for it.
[0:38] >> Alright, here you go.
[0:46] This. This is our emergency pull cord,
[0:48] we call it the "Lifeline." We have over
[0:50] 12,000 of these points throughout the
[0:52] park, averaging 3.2 per 100 square
[0:54] meters, both indoors and outdoors.
[0:57] When our seniors are at risk, they can
[0:59] pull this cord to call for help
[1:01] immediately.
[1:04] Of course, you might wonder what happens
[1:06] if there's no cord nearby.
[1:10] We have another innovation we developed
[1:12] ourselves: an alarm card.
[1:15] Look, when our seniors are outside...
[1:17] ...and accidentally fall.
[1:20] >> Hmm.
[1:23] >> This contains a SIM card; it triggers a
[1:25] location alarm and connects to our
[1:26] backend staff so we know exactly where
[1:28] they are and can go to help.
[1:32] >> I can give it to you.
[1:33] >> This image is right in their room. Yes,
[1:35] it's standard in every resident's home,
[1:36] usually placed in the living room or by
[1:38] the bed. Xiao Tai, Xiao Tai.
[1:40] >> Where are you?
[1:41] >> Save me.
[1:44] >> Hello, this is the Tai Home online
[1:46] steward.
[1:48] We are processing your emergency call,
[1:49] please wait a moment.
[1:52] >> Hello, I am the duty steward. Do you
[1:54] need assistance? Are you feeling unwell
[1:56] ?
[1:56] >> He, he can see me.
[1:57] >> He can see me. Can you see this teacher
[1:59] here?
[2:00] >> Can you see me?
[2:01] >> Ah, yes, I can see you.
[2:03] >> Okay, thank you.
[2:04] >> Thank you.
[2:04] >> Right.
[2:05] >> How long are the shifts for this?
[2:06] >> 24 hours, all day long.
[2:08] >> So there is someone on duty 24 hours a
[2:10] day?
[2:10] >> Yes, okay, thank you, goodbye.
[2:12] >> Thank you, thank you.
[2:16] >> These were also chosen for some of our
[2:18] seniors; for example, if their hand
[2:20] function changes while eating, the angle
[2:22] of this spoon can be adjusted by soaking
[2:24] it in warm water, allowing it to better
[2:26] fit the strength and grip of our seniors
[2:28] 'hands.
[2:31] Mm, let me
[2:33] >> It promotes independent eating, which is
[2:35] better than being fed by others.
[2:39] For conditions like Parkinson's, these
[2:41] anti-tremor devices contain batteries
[2:43] that generate a frequency to counteract
[2:45] the tremors.
[2:47] >> Oh.
[2:48] >> It can counteract the hand tremors.
[2:49] >> Oh, so it achieves a balance with them.
[2:52] >> Exactly, this way they can feed
[2:53] themselves and get the food into their
[2:55] mouths.
[2:59] Standard bathing chairs can be cold to
[3:01] sit on, so we’ve developed products that
[3:03] are more comfortable and
[3:04] temperature-sensitive.
[3:11] These bathing facilities help reduce
[3:12] overall bathing time and lower the risk
[3:14] of catching a cold.
[3:20] The average age of our frontline nursing
[3:22] staff has dropped to 27. For a young
[3:24] person fresh out of school, it’s
[3:26] actually quite hard to empathize with
[3:28] our 80-year-old residents, so we use
[3:30] this aging simulation system, which they
[3:32] are wearing now.
[3:36] Once they have the whole suit on, they
[3:38] instantly transition from a 20-year-old
[3:40] to an 80-year-old state.
[3:42] This helps them better understand why
[3:44] elderly people might not hear well or
[3:45] why they react the way they do to our
[3:47] instructions.
[3:49] >> Oh, this can simulate the state of an
[3:51] elderly person? Can I give it a try?
[3:53] Help me put it on.
[3:55] >> Yes.
[3:56] >> Let's help him.
[3:57] >> Sir, would you like to experience the
[3:59] full set or...?
[3:59] >> The full set, yes.
[4:01] >> All right, please have a seat.
[4:03] Go ahead.
[4:05] So, its greatest benefit is that it
[4:07] allows one to instantly feel what it’s
[4:09] like to be 80.
[4:10] >> Oh, the state of an 80-year-old.
[4:12] >> This is the front restraint strap. It
[4:14] goes around your neck.
[4:15] So, you need to be careful when you
[4:17] stand up later; it will suddenly pull
[4:19] you into a stooped, hunched-over posture
[4:21] .
[4:22] >> Mm-hmm.
[4:31] >> To truly understand what it feels like.
[4:34] >> Aging is a state where every part of the
[4:36] body experiences decline.
[4:38] For example, eyesight weakens and the
[4:40] field of vision is impaired.
[4:43] Sometimes when we greet elders, if we
[4:45] pass by their side, they might not
[4:47] notice us; we can only greet them from
[4:49] the front.
[4:50] Oh, so their side vision...
[4:51] >> Their peripheral vision is actually
[4:53] impaired.
[4:53] >> Aging itself causes their field of
[4:55] vision to change.
[4:57] >> It becomes narrower, or they might have
[4:59] conditions like glaucoma or cataracts,
[5:01] which all exacerbate the loss and
[5:03] impairment of their vision.
[5:06] >> And then there are these leg restraints
[5:08] , which are...
[5:09] >> Joints, for example, arthritis leads to
[5:12] some stiffness, or he feels very heavy.
[5:16] Is this, this simulates the physical
[5:18] feeling of most 80-year-old elderly
[5:20] people, right?
[5:21] >> Yes, mm.
[5:22] >> In a moment, when you put on the sandbag
[5:24] , you will feel very heavy; actually,
[5:26] our elders feel very heavy from the
[5:28] moment they open their eyes and wake up
[5:30] .
[5:30] >> Why would they feel so heavy?
[5:33] >> Because their muscle strength and body
[5:34] aging all make them feel heavy and not
[5:36] relaxed.
[5:38] Mm.
[5:40] >> Your elbows, you just wake up and feel
[5:42] weak, feel very tired, right?
[5:46] >> Yes, lack of strength.
[5:48] >> Even if they don't usually do any labor
[5:50] , they still feel very exhausted.
[5:54] >> Yes, yes, it's different from young
[5:56] people who say "I'm tired" and then feel
[5:58] refreshed after sleeping; they will
[6:00] still feel very tired.
[6:04] >> Teacher, could you please take off your
[6:06] glasses?
[6:07] >> Sure.
[6:12] This simulates the visual part.
[6:15] >> Oh, I can only see such a tiny little
[6:17] circle.
[6:18] >> Yes, that's right.
[6:19] >> Mm, the field of view is also very small
[6:21] .
[6:21] >> Is the field of view this small?
[6:22] >> Yes. Okay, let me put our weighted vest
[6:25] on you first.
[6:26] >> Do I need to stand up?
[6:28] >> No need, no need, you can just sit.
[6:31] In a moment, when you get up...
[6:35] Oh, so this is all I can see; I can't
[6:38] see anything around me.
[6:39] >> Yes, that's right.
[6:42] >> Goodness.
[6:46] >> Okay, let me put this on you.
[6:50] >> This is an experience of hearing
[6:51] impairment.
[6:53] Can you hear? They......
[6:54] >> are listening to sounds.
[6:55] >> Yes, can you hear me speaking?
[6:57] >> Mm, it's very blurry, I can't hear
[6:59] clearly what you're saying.
[7:00] >> Yes.
[7:02] I feel like the two of you are
[7:03] interrogating me under duress.
[7:05] >> Okay, it's ready now.
[7:07] >> Mm.
[7:07] >> Slowly now.
[7:08] >> You must...when getting up.
[7:10] >> Yes, good.
[7:11] >> Oh. Ouch, I can't straighten up.
[7:13] >> Yes, that's right, come, let me support
[7:15] you. The road ahead is flat, feel free
[7:17] to walk forward.
[7:18] >> Hey, I really can't straighten up?
[7:21] >> Yes, that's right, mm.
[7:25] >> Can I try walking without the cane?
[7:26] >> Sure, you can.
[7:29] >> I can walk without the cane, but my
[7:31] field of view is too small.
[7:35] >> Mm.
[7:35] >> I can only see a small patch of ground
[7:37] right in front of me.
[7:39] >> Yes.
[7:39] >> Can I move forward?
[7:42] >> Yes, it's an upward slope now.
[7:46] >> Mm.
[7:47] I can hear sounds, but they are very
[7:49] blurry and very faint, mm.
[7:53] >> Okay, we can turn right now.
[7:56] There are three steps ahead.
[7:58] Go slowly, good, take it slow. Mm.
[8:01] >> Good.
[8:02] One more, good.
[8:05] >> My whole body feels like it's hunched
[8:07] over.
[8:08] >> Yes, exactly, constrained and feeling
[8:10] very heavy.
[8:11] >> Constrained, hmm, so that’s how they
[8:13] actually feel, right?
[8:14] >> Yes, it is.
[8:17] >> Oh my, I can’t even lift my head up. Hmm
[8:20] .
[8:20] >> Is my grandmother really unable to lift
[8:22] her head?
[8:22] >> Yes, my grandfather is in this exact
[8:25] state, always hunched over.
[8:27] >> It’s so inconvenient, and after a while
[8:29] , the lower back gets sore.
[8:30] >> It gets worse and worse, this sensation
[8:32] just intensifies.
[8:35] >> It’s so restrictive.
[8:38] Yeah, over time, the lower back just
[8:40] aches more.
[8:43] >> Wow, my hands, my hands feel so heavy,
[8:46] like my wrists are being pulled downward
[8:48] . My stride is very, it’s truly limited
[8:51] , my movement is very restricted.
[8:54] >> Hmm.
[8:55] >> I can't take steps freely, the range of
[8:57] motion is limited.
[8:59] >> Right.
[9:01] >> Yeah, and it’s a bit heavy. Do 80-
[9:04] year-olds feel this heavy burden on
[9:06] their backs all day long?
[9:07] >> Yes, they do, yes.
[9:09] >> This is so heavy.
[9:13] This is so uncomfortable.
[9:17] >> Here.
[9:25] Yeah, having a cane really helps a lot.
[9:28] A cane makes a big difference. It’s
[9:30] straining my neck.
[9:35] This really makes you feel top-heavy and
[9:37] light-footed.
[9:41] >> Yes.
[9:41] >> You really feel like the top part is
[9:43] especially heavy.
[9:44] >> But underneath, your feet feel a bit
[9:46] unstable.
[9:48] Okay, good.
[9:51] >> So, if I want to run, can I run?
[9:56] >> Well, you can move like this, you can
[9:58] exercise a bit, this is quite a workout
[10:00] .
[10:03] >> I can’t run fast, I can only take tiny
[10:06] steps in place.
[10:07] Oh, the elderly are so pitiful, the
[10:09] elderly are truly pitiful.
[10:12] >> Alright, is that enough?
[10:14] >> It's enough, please sit down. My neck is
[10:17] already sore.
[10:18] >> Yes, indeed.
[10:21] >> Hmm.
[10:22] >> That’s why many of our elders often say
[10:25] , "I feel tired, I need to lie down and
[10:27] rest for a while."
[10:29] >> Down.
[10:30] >> So, Professor De, we use this simulation
[10:32] system to let young children immediately
[10:35] develop empathy for our elders, so they
[10:37] can better serve them.
[10:39] They will understand why, when you tell
[10:41] them to look up, they just can't.
[10:44] You ask them to lift their legs higher,
[10:46] but they just can't, so you understand
[10:47] them better.
[10:49] >> Living in a world full of obstacles.
[10:51] >> Yes.
[10:53] Are we really going to be like this when
[10:55] we are 80?
[10:56] It’s that your world has become smaller
[10:58] .
[10:58] >> Yes.
[10:59] >> Suddenly.
[10:59] >> Receiving information, and so on.
[11:01] >> And then it’s all blurry.
[11:03] >> Yes.
[11:04] >> All the sounds seem like they are coming
[11:06] from behind a thick fog.
[11:08] That’s right.
[11:10] And then you can only see what's right
[11:12] in front of you, just a tiny area,
[11:13] unable to judge the surrounding
[11:15] environment.
[11:16] >> You can no longer judge the environment
[11:18] around you.
[11:19] >> Yeah, and look at the sweat all over my
[11:21] forehead.
[11:22] >> Right, so the physical exertion is
[11:24] extremely high.
[11:25] >> It's tiring. It's exhausting.
[11:28] Oh, it reminds me of my father; he had
[11:31] Parkinson's toward the end, you know, oh
[11:33] , I can imagine it.
[11:36] He just couldn't sit still, right. When
[11:39] he was sitting, he didn't feel like he
[11:41] was resting; he felt so tired, so tired
[11:43] , he would just—no, I said to him,
[11:46] you're sitting, why are your muscles so
[11:48] tense?
[11:49] >> Why do you have to keep your muscles so
[11:50] tight?
[11:51] >> The muscle tension is very strong.
[11:53] >> It's just like this, you see, even when
[11:55] he's sitting, he's just sitting.
[11:57] >> It’s not relaxed, even when he’s lying
[11:59] down, he’s tense; sometimes we need
[12:01] medication to change that muscle
[12:03] >> state. Relax—you see, this person just
[12:06] feels so tired, so tired, even when
[12:08] you’re lying on the sofa you’re
[12:10] exhausted, your body is stiff and tense
[12:12] .
[12:13] >> Right, so this is a process of aging and
[12:15] illness, so those who provide service
[12:17] must really understand this.
[12:19] >> Look, mine is still sore right now.
[12:21] >> Yeah, still sore, being like this all
[12:23] day is truly special.
[12:25] >> And your lower back gets sore very
[12:26] quickly, sitting like this, your back
[12:28] gets sore fast.
[12:29] >> Physical exertion is—it's okay, thanks
[12:31] for your—
[12:35] Oh.
[12:37] >> I thought you were staying there and
[12:38] wouldn't come out.
[12:39] >> I didn't get to shake your hand just now
[12:41] .
[12:42] >> Alright, now we are going on stage.
[12:44] >> Mr. Hu, today there is only one topic,
[12:47] and that is "The Twin Heavens."
[12:51] >> This is my novel.
[12:53] >> Isn't it? I thought I only came here for
[12:55] ...
[12:55] >> Yes, yes, you came here to sell the book
[12:58] .
[12:58] >> I thought so.
[12:59] >> I went to Shenzhen specifically for him
[13:01] two days ago. Thank you.
[13:03] >> No, no, no, the "Twin Heavens" trilogy
[13:06] is Jiahui's swan song.
[13:09] >> I heard about it during the talk at noon
[13:10] when he introduced it to me.
[13:12] >> So, once you're done writing it, you're
[13:14] ready to head to a nursing home.
[13:16] >> Right.
[13:20] I am in the nursing home.
[13:50] Today, Mr. Hu, is a special day for us;
[13:52] look, I specially arranged for Hui to
[13:55] meet his Xiaojun.
[13:58] And Xiaojun also met his Hui, yes.
[14:02] >> But I specifically want to arrange for
[14:04] both of you to be in the nursing home.
[14:06] >> Are you saying you've already picked out
[14:08] our rooms?
[14:08] >> Yes, yes.
[14:10] >> Did I choose a suite?
[14:12] Is it a servant visiting me?
[14:15] >> I need to explain this to Mr. Hu You; we
[14:18] are hosting this at Taiyan, and Tai is
[14:20] also the initiator and the sponsor.
[14:24] But you see, Chen is actually our senior
[14:26] fellow student from Wuhan University.
[14:29] >> I told him right from the start, I said
[14:31] , "Taikang's retirement model is just
[14:34] one of many options."
[14:36] To be honest, it's geared toward the
[14:38] middle class or those with higher
[14:40] incomes.
[14:43] I said we need to address the needs of
[14:45] those with average incomes, the vast
[14:47] majority of people in China, including
[14:49] the issues faced by the elderly in
[14:51] second-and third-tier cities and rural
[14:53] areas who aren't getting enough
[14:54] attention.
[14:57] But then I realized Brother Dongsheng
[14:59] has a high sense of purpose; he said
[15:00] there's no need to talk about us like
[15:03] that, he lives by the ideal of "The
[15:04] world belongs to everyone."
[15:08] He said that as initiators in the
[15:10] elderly care industry, we want to use
[15:12] this opportunity to have a good talk
[15:14] about this unprecedented era of
[15:16] longevity.
[15:19] He truly is one of China's earlier
[15:21] entrepreneurs.
[15:22] >> He noticed this matter.
[15:23] >> He noticed this issue, and he has a very
[15:26] interesting perspective.
[15:28] Professor Hu, you research this; he says
[15:31] that now, if people are looking toward a
[15:33] 100-year lifespan, If we take 100 years
[15:36] as the benchmark, 40 is considered young
[15:39] , 60 is...
[15:41] >> Middle-aged.
[15:42] >> Right? And 80 is elderly.
[15:45] He says in this case, the life script we
[15:48] originally wrote based on an average
[15:50] lifespan of 70 actually needs to be
[15:52] rewritten.
[15:54] >> But isn't everyone expecting to live to
[15:56] 150 now? Many people in Silicon Valley
[15:59] have basically set the bar at 150,
[16:02] between 120 and 150. Are they dreaming?
[16:05] >> No, it's biotechnology.
[16:07] >> Do you believe in this?
[16:08] >> What I've heard people talk about is 120
[16:10] , but is 150 also being discussed? I
[16:13] think it's possible to extend it, if you
[16:14] ...
[16:15] >> Your aging, the aging of bodily
[16:17] functions, can be slowed down, right?
[16:19] It's possible.
[16:21] Isn't our current aging just because our
[16:23] cells are accelerating in their decay?
[16:26] And I've found, from talking to many
[16:28] seniors, I've had this realization: the
[16:30] brain actually doesn't age that quickly
[16:32] .
[16:33] Well said.
[16:34] >> Exactly, the brain, even at over 90
[16:35] years old—like Xu Xiaohu and others who
[16:37] are in their 90 s—their brains are still
[16:40] very sharp, their memory is fine, and
[16:41] their mental energy is still quite good
[16:43] . Of course, they can't sprint 100
[16:45] meters, that's impossible, right?
[16:48] >> But in that state, you can see that at
[16:50] the very least, the brain ages much
[16:52] slower than the body.
[16:54] However, there is a contradiction here.
[16:59] I've met some elders recently, and last
[17:01] year I visited the mothers of some of my
[17:03] peers.
[17:05] I was deeply moved, as quite a few of
[17:07] them were like that; their minds were
[17:09] still very sharp.
[17:11] But the whole body is failing, movement
[17:13] is basically impossible, sitting there,
[17:15] you could even say the whole person is
[17:17] becoming more and more like a baby.
[17:19] But you think these great minds—I
[17:21] imagine they are in pain, that's just my
[17:23] speculation—they are in such pain.
[17:26] Their minds still want to write novels
[17:28] like me, but their bodies fail, they
[17:30] shake, they need care.
[17:32] Isn't that even more miserable?
[17:34] So I start to imagine, if I were given
[17:36] two options.
[17:39] A sharp mind but a failing body, or a
[17:41] body in great shape but a mind that's
[17:43] muddled, forgetting this and forgetting
[17:45] that—which would be happier?
[17:49] I don't have an answer.
[17:50] But it's not really up to us to choose;
[17:52] to be honest, nature has its own plans
[17:54] for us.
[17:56] >> You might choose to keep your body
[17:57] worthy of your mind.
[17:59] >> That’s not easy.
[18:01] As for the genetic part of the body,
[18:02] based on my observations, you can
[18:04] clearly see the difference between a 40
[18:06] -year-old and a 60-year-old.
[18:08] Once you pass a certain age...so when
[18:11] Wentao talks about 100, 120, 150 years
[18:13] old, saying I'm "middle-aged," it sounds
[18:16] nice, but it's not that fair. It's not
[18:19] just divided by numbers.
[18:20] Now that I'm a middle-aged 60, and I'm
[18:22] actually older than 60, so for these two
[18:25] hours, none of you talk.
[18:27] Listen to me; I'm the oldest, so I have
[18:29] the floor.
[18:31] Right, and then, between 60 and 80, your
[18:33] overall state of mind, physical
[18:35] condition, and emotional life are
[18:36] different from when you were 40 to 60,
[18:39] and then again after 80.
[18:40] >> How is your emotional state different?
[18:43] >> Oh, emotional state—I met a friend, a
[18:45] young friend who has been on this
[18:47] journey.
[18:48] We naturally talked about life, kids,
[18:50] spouses, all that stuff. She said, "Hmm
[18:53] , I don't think I need a husband anymore
[18:55] . It’s as if marriage has caused love to
[18:58] fade away.""Wait," this is something we
[19:00] should all find easy to understand.
[19:02] I had to offer some words of comfort,
[19:04] which were also sincere.
[19:07] I said, "Don't worry, once you get past
[19:09] this stage and get a bit older, you will
[19:11] rediscover love, provided, of course,
[19:13] that you're lucky enough."
[19:15] It's just that midlife has so many
[19:17] frictions and so many dilemmas that make
[19:19] you exhaust love very quickly, sometimes
[19:21] even leading to hate.
[19:23] But after a certain stage, you
[19:25] understand love better.
[19:28] I often say that love is a form of
[19:30] learning; you learn to love, and you
[19:31] also learn to understand how to be loved
[19:34] and seek love.
[19:37] Then, you also learn to appreciate
[19:39] things in your partner that you had
[19:40] previously overlooked.
[19:43] >> Then, where is that partner? At that
[19:44] time.
[19:45] >> Then, where—where is that partner? At
[19:47] that time, would you—would you still be
[19:49] lovable?
[19:51] >> Well, of course, if you’re lucky,
[19:53] there’s still one, and if not, then...
[19:58] >> Whether it's fortunate or not, when you
[20:00] relearn how to love, you hope to do new
[20:02] things with that same familiar person.
[20:08] It’s a greater joy than constantly
[20:10] finding new people to repeat candlelit
[20:12] dinners and beach walks with.
[20:17] While doing the same things with someone
[20:19] new might be fun, it doesn't compare to
[20:21] doing something fresh with, say, your
[20:24] long-time partner.
[20:27] They say young couples become old
[20:29] companions.
[20:32] You might fight incessantly in middle
[20:34] age, but in your later years, you start
[20:37] to feel a mutual tenderness.
[20:41] That mutual care, perhaps realizing that
[20:43] you are each other's only reliance, is
[20:46] truly touching.
[20:48] It’s like how my father cared for my
[20:50] mother every single day.
[20:54] His doctor even said it moved every
[20:56] nurse in our hospital.
[20:58] All of our nurses would say, "Oh, I wish
[21:00] I could have a partner like that when I
[21:02] grow old."
[21:04] But the way different generations view
[21:06] each other, Jiaohui, I think that’s an
[21:08] issue. Jiaohui sent me something on my
[21:10] phone to celebrate the holiday, you know
[21:12] , Children’s Day on June 1st.
[21:14] >> Right.
[21:15] >> On June 2nd, he said, "Let's celebrate'
[21:17] Old Lamp Day 'together."
[21:19] >> I said, "That's right." I asked you to
[21:21] send me a red envelope, but you didn't.
[21:23] >> Right, but don't get too smug.
[21:27] Look at the comments we're getting now.
[21:29] People say only those born in the 80s
[21:31] can celebrate "Old Lamp Day." By the
[21:34] time we reach this age, we’re already
[21:36] considered "Ancient Holy Lamps." Or even
[21:38] worse, "Ancient Beacon Lamps." You guys
[21:41] are still called "Old Lamps"? You're way
[21:43] past that. You don't even qualify as "
[21:45] Old Lamps" anymore. What about him? Is
[21:47] he the "Oldest"? But I think I still
[21:50] have some say because I'm the "Second
[21:51] Oldest," right? You are, and so am I.
[21:54] I'm the eternal "Second Oldest," yes.
[21:56] >> Actually, there are two situations: one
[21:58] is having a healthy body but a failing
[22:00] brain.
[22:01] >> Hmm.
[22:02] >> The other is having a poor body but a
[22:04] perfectly sharp brain.
[22:06] >> Hmm.
[22:08] >> I actually think both situations are
[22:10] equally cruel.
[22:11] >> Hmm, hmm.
[22:12] >> Neither is better than the other.
[22:15] Yi Jun said he met someone over 90 whose
[22:18] brain was still excellent.
[22:20] >> But so many people are suffering from
[22:22] dementia now.
[22:25] >> The number in China alone accounts for a
[22:27] third of all dementia patients worldwide
[22:29] .
[22:32] >> Whether their life is still truly "a
[22:33] life" is a question that needs a big
[22:35] question mark.
[22:36] >> Hmm, hmm, hmm.
[22:38] >> But looking at it the other way, for
[22:40] those whose brains are still sharp but
[22:43] whose bodies are failing—take the former
[22:45] Renmin University philosophy professor,
[22:47] Zhu Rui.
[22:50] Didn't he write "The Philosopher's Last
[22:52] Moment"?
[22:53] >> Right.
[22:53] >> Oh, was it that right before he passed
[22:56] away, while still in his hospital bed,
[22:58] he recorded some things?
[23:02] >> He gave an interview to a reporter while
[23:04] in the palliative care ward at Haidian
[23:06] Hospital, saying his biggest dream at
[23:08] the time was just to get out of bed,
[23:10] slip out, and go to the restaurant
[23:12] across the street from the hospital to
[23:14] sit down.
[23:18] And then, have a bowl of soup.
[23:21] But he couldn't make that happen.
[23:24] So I feel that these two types of
[23:26] dilemmas—if you live a long life and
[23:28] your body or your brain eventually just
[23:30] ...fails...and whether your life is
[23:33] still meaningful—are both really hard to
[23:35] say.
[23:39] Take Reagan, for instance; when he
[23:41] passed away, many media outlets wrote
[23:43] commentaries saying he had effectively
[23:45] died many years earlier, and that what
[23:48] remained in this world was just a shadow
[23:50] .
[23:54] >> Some even wrote that if he had passed
[23:56] away earlier from something else, like
[23:58] cancer, it might have been better for
[24:00] his family.
[24:03] Of course, I disagree with those things
[24:05] ; I specifically wrote something about
[24:07] how they all underestimate the
[24:08] significance of that person to their
[24:10] family, regardless of whether their body
[24:13] or brain is failing.
[24:14] >> Outsiders really don't understand this.
[24:20] >> But you see, social evaluation is such
[24:22] that if your mind is already gone, they
[24:24] consider you gone as well, so I think
[24:26] that is just how cruel life can be.
[24:31] >> But, for example, for a person with
[24:33] dementia, or even let's say someone in a
[24:35] vegetative state,
[24:36] >> their existence is meaningful to their
[24:38] family.
[24:40] >> Does that mean they should just keep
[24:42] living like that for their sake?
[24:45] >> Uh, I have a personal experience with
[24:48] this; whenever I speak or post a video,
[24:50] there are tons of comments saying they
[24:52] hope China legalizes euthanasia soon. Mm
[24:55] .
[24:55] >> But everyone fails to realize that the
[24:57] topic of euthanasia is actually not
[24:59] simple at all; it's extremely complex.
[25:01] >> Right.
[25:02] >> Because first of all, the definition of
[25:04] euthanasia is different from assisted
[25:06] suicide.
[25:06] >> It’s also different from assisted dying
[25:08] .
[25:10] And then, there’s the whole issue of
[25:12] whether euthanasia might lead to a
[25:13] slippery slope, where people who
[25:15] shouldn't die end up dying anyway.
[25:19] Many people also have a misconception,
[25:21] saying that some places in the world
[25:23] have already legalized things like this
[25:25] —they don't even call it euthanasia;
[25:28] euthanasia is actually a more colloquial
[25:30] term.
[25:31] In reality, there are usually additional
[25:33] conditions, such as being in the
[25:35] terminal stage with only six months left
[25:37] .
[25:38] You need someone to issue a certificate
[25:40] stating that your condition will reach
[25:42] its terminal stage within six months,
[25:44] plus signatures from at least two
[25:46] doctors.
[25:47] And you know, many people seeking this,
[25:49] like Alzheimer's patients, feel they
[25:51] won't be able to make their own
[25:53] decisions later on. I need to decide in
[25:55] advance, because now I have the will,
[25:57] but by the end, I won't have it anymore
[26:00] . So what do they call it?
[26:03] They compare it to Cinderella going to
[26:05] the ball, where you have to be back by
[26:07] midnight, right?
[26:08] They say you must make this decision by
[26:11] 11:55, because at 12:05 you can't, as
[26:13] it's then up to your family to decide.
[26:15] But making that choice at 11:05 actually
[26:18] involves very complex issues. For
[26:20] example, you might die earlier than
[26:22] necessary. Because you don't really know
[26:24] how long this state of being unable to
[26:26] decide for yourself will last, right?
[26:28] >> Or some people might actually change
[26:30] their—
[26:31] >> Change their minds,
[26:32] >> Change their minds.
[26:33] >> Yes.
[26:34] >> Right. So, I also feel that euthanasia
[26:36] isn't that simple.
[26:38] >> It's very complicated. Very, very
[26:40] complex, the concepts of autonomy and
[26:42] consciousness you mentioned.
[26:46] >> Oh, it just flashed through my mind,
[26:48] back when my father was also losing his
[26:51] full consciousness.
[26:53] Right.
[26:54] >> You know, often with things like bank
[26:56] passwords. Hmm.
[26:58] >> And other procedures, like those for
[27:00] urban residency.
[27:04] >> I remember a specific, troublesome
[27:06] procedure we had; software nowadays
[27:08] really should be designed for the
[27:09] elderly, especially those in late stages
[27:11] —what do you think they need?
[27:16] Face recognition—you think it's just
[27:18] advanced tech?
[27:19] But you can't imagine, he had a feeding
[27:21] tube in his nose, a tube in his mouth,
[27:23] taped up—how was he supposed to face the
[27:25] camera?
[27:27] And he didn't even know, his
[27:28] consciousness wasn't entirely clear.
[27:31] Oh, but the paperwork just wouldn't go
[27:33] through.
[27:34] It was so difficult, I tried several
[27:36] times; the last time, I remember, I was
[27:39] nearly crying, I don't even know why,
[27:41] but then the doctor said, let's unplug
[27:43] the tubes for a moment.
[27:45] We peeled off the tape, and I held the
[27:47] phone, following the instructions step
[27:49] by step.
[27:50] >> Finally, my dad, whether consciously or
[27:53] unconsciously, aligned his face, blinked
[27:55] —and it just passed, yes.
[27:57] >> Oh my, Dad, you were such a meticulous
[27:59] person your whole life, and you were so
[28:01] reliable right to the end, I'm so proud
[28:04] of you. I just remember that because,
[28:06] you know, at the time, he sometimes
[28:08] couldn't even sign his name. And this
[28:10] thing
[28:10] >> That facial recognition requires you to
[28:12] blink first and then shake your head;
[28:14] many elderly people can't do that.
[28:16] >> I've had the exact same experience as
[28:18] you.
[28:18] >> How did you finally overcome it?
[28:21] >> This was at the bank.
[28:24] It was on one of those terminals; now
[28:26] those terminals all require facial
[28:27] recognition, and it has to be the person
[28:29] themselves, so I couldn't do it for him
[28:31] .
[28:34] >> Right.
[28:36] Just like you said, you have to hope for
[28:38] some kind of miracle, that they happen
[28:40] to blink.
[28:42] >> I didn't even have the chance to do that
[28:44] ; when my mother passed away, I didn't
[28:46] get the opportunity to handle it, so I
[28:48] mean, it’s really troublesome.
[28:51] Listening to Mr. Hu, I’m thinking about
[28:53] something: we all have a fear, not
[28:55] knowing whether physical aging or mental
[28:57] decline will come first, but this fear
[28:59] of aging seems different from the fear
[29:01] of death.
[29:02] It is different.
[29:03] >> Right, it's more that we are actually
[29:05] afraid of suffering.
[29:07] >> You can understand the final natural
[29:09] stage of a person's life, but the
[29:11] thought of having to endure suffering
[29:12] before that makes everyone particularly
[29:14] anxious.
[29:16] >> I saw a headline saying Zhou Yijun
[29:18] interviewed 40 elderly people and said,
[29:20] "I'm not afraid of aging anymore."
[29:22] >> It's like this: it’s not that I’m not
[29:23] afraid at all, but rather that I have a
[29:25] concrete idea of the various
[29:27] possibilities aging might bring. Because
[29:29] before, I was quite resistant to this
[29:31] topic, and I didn't want to imagine what
[29:33] it would be like to get old or what to
[29:34] do about it; I really didn't want to
[29:36] think about it.
[29:37] Everyone is actually afraid of a sudden
[29:39] decay in their state of being, not
[29:41] knowing what to do.
[29:43] Sometimes I wonder if maybe I should
[29:45] learn about it in advance.
[29:47] About what it might be like.
[29:50] I realized there might be one thing you
[29:52] can do: start slowly now, while you're
[29:54] young, and begin saving up some muscle,
[29:56] some money, and some spiritual life for
[29:58] yourself.
[30:00] Just those three things.
[30:01] >> How do you save them?
[30:02] >> Well, you can certainly train for muscle
[30:04] ; I often lift weights now.
[30:06] >> But by that age, the muscles will have
[30:08] atrophied.
[30:10] >> I've already atrophied. No.
[30:11] >> Is it because you didn't train? Well,
[30:13] you would have trained when you were
[30:14] young.
[30:14] >> If you keep training, it’s not atrophy,
[30:17] it’s loss.
[30:17] >> No, that topic was too heavy. As I was
[30:20] listening, so many images were filling
[30:22] my mind. For instance, talking about my
[30:24] father.
[30:25] Death is an eternal difficulty; when you
[30:28] reach that threshold, it’s even more
[30:30] terrifying.
[30:32] Old age comes faster than you imagine,
[30:34] and the end may come quite suddenly.
[30:36] We truly never know.
[30:38] Not knowing has its sorrows, and knowing
[30:40] has its sadness.
[30:42] Take my father, for example. My father
[30:45] passed away a few years ago. He went
[30:47] through a period of illness.
[30:49] During his late stage—though you never
[30:51] really know when it's truly the "late
[30:53] stage"—it’s possible that if I had left
[30:55] first, he might still be here.
[30:58] That’s entirely possible.
[31:00] >> But seeing how frail he was, I did one
[31:03] thing.
[31:04] I wanted to make him happy by playing
[31:06] one last game of mahjong with him.
[31:08] My father loved mahjong; he played all
[31:10] the time.
[31:11] Can you imagine?
[31:13] In my heart, I knew. He had no strength
[31:15] left to play, but I said, "Let's play,"
[31:17] so my sister and I sat down to play with
[31:20] him. He summoned all his energy to play
[31:22] .
[31:23] I don't know what he was thinking, but I
[31:25] knew this was his last game of mahjong
[31:27] in this life, and the last one I would
[31:29] ever play with him.
[31:31] The very first game I ever played was
[31:33] when I was five; my father taught me.
[31:36] Oh, that’s not good, is it? Five years
[31:39] old? Don't gamble. Okay, mahjong doesn't
[31:41] have to be about gambling.
[31:43] >> Right.
[31:44] Playing that last game, imagine how I
[31:46] felt.
[31:48] But I couldn't just throw games on
[31:50] purpose, because that wouldn't be fun.
[31:54] I played with him to let him feel the
[31:56] joy of the game, the competition of it.
[31:59] You might win, you might lose. Exactly,
[32:01] if I just kept letting him win, it
[32:03] wouldn't be fun at all. Blood pressure
[32:05] went up.
[32:06] >> He left right after. I took it very
[32:08] seriously.
[32:10] For all these years, we always laughed
[32:12] while playing; it was always so much fun
[32:14] .
[32:15] That game was the most painful one I
[32:17] ever played, knowing it was the last
[32:19] time I’d play mahjong with my father.
[32:23] About eight or nine months later, he
[32:24] passed away.
[32:28] It’s always like that; when elders pass
[32:29] , you always look back and feel you
[32:31] could have done more.
[32:35] But I can comfort myself by saying, "
[32:36] Well, at least I did that one thing with
[32:38] him."
[32:39] What you said was excellent.
[32:41] It reminded me of what I wanted to say:
[32:43] the end of life is about passion. Just
[32:45] like I mentioned earlier about
[32:47] interviewing these elderly people,
[32:48] regardless of their past, they've
[32:50] actually endured so much hardship, and
[32:52] many are living while battling illness.
[32:54] Ultimately, if we talk about winners—
[32:56] so-called life winners—it's those who
[32:58] still have a passion, like you playing
[33:00] mahjong with your father.
[33:03] >> No matter what it is, having something
[33:05] they love that can spark their interest
[33:07] ,
[33:09] >> that is a little bit of the meaning of
[33:11] being alive.
[33:12] Do you remember, Teacher Hu? You were
[33:14] last on Season 7 of*Yuanzhou Pai*. Yes.
[33:18] >> We were both talking about you taking
[33:20] care of your mother back then, and I
[33:22] said my father was also showing initial
[33:24] signs.
[33:25] >> They have both passed away now.
[33:26] >> They’ve both passed away now.
[33:29] I don't know how you feel, but for this
[33:31] show, for example, if I hadn't found an
[33:33] excuse for myself to be surrounded by
[33:35] the world...I actually don't like
[33:37] talking about this.
[33:39] >> Hmm.
[33:40] >> Just as you said, I don't like to
[33:41] discuss these things. Uh, there is a
[33:44] conflict in my heart. I remember Lu Yu
[33:46] always noticed a problem with me; she
[33:48] said whenever we went out somewhere, if
[33:50] I ate something delicious, I would
[33:52] always say, "Oh, my mom and dad can't
[33:54] eat this."
[33:55] >> Hmm.
[33:58] >> I don't say this to show how filial I am
[34:00] —in fact, I didn't take good care of my
[34:02] parents—but I found that this feeling
[34:05] has haunted me to this day.
[34:08] I can't listen to people talk about this
[34:10] because I start comparing.
[34:14] For example, at this place...Oh, for
[34:16] instance, when I saw a chair for elderly
[34:18] people to bathe in, I thought, why
[34:20] didn't I think to buy my father one back
[34:23] then?
[34:25] I remember on the last show, I mentioned
[34:27] a son bathing his father. When I saw
[34:29] this, I said, "Hey, how did I not find
[34:31] this?" It turns out there's this chair,
[34:34] a special kind for the elderly to bathe
[34:36] in.
[34:37] >> It has a frame, so they can bathe
[34:39] frequently on their own, right?
[34:43] You made me put on those restrictive
[34:44] garments, letting me experience what
[34:46] it’s like to be 80 years old.
[34:49] >> That feeling.
[34:51] I really think—of course, what Yijun
[34:53] talked about is the ideal; some elderly
[34:55] people are like that, meaning their
[34:58] brains—prefrontal cortex studies show
[35:00] that 60 to 80 is the peak of their brain
[35:02] power.
[35:03] >> Right, right.
[35:05] >> They wrote the most books they ever had
[35:07] or something, but that's not true for
[35:09] everyone.
[35:11] Many people...I just strongly feel, are
[35:13] we really going to live like that one
[35:16] day, in a severely restricted world?
[35:19] Hey, you can try it on in a moment, it's
[35:21] just this big.
[35:23] >> You can't see anything to the sides, you
[35:25] can only see what’s right in front of
[35:27] you, and this weight prevents you from
[35:29] lifting your head. I was wondering, are
[35:31] the elderly really unable to lift their
[35:33] heads? Is that what this weight is for?
[35:35] If it's like that, can you still scroll
[35:37] on your phone?
[35:37] >> Well, you can actually scroll on your
[35:39] phone, you don’t need to look up.
[35:41] >> You can keep your head down forever.
[35:43] >> That’s good then, that’s good, the rest
[35:45] doesn’t matter.
[35:46] >> That suit is meant to help those of us
[35:48] who haven't reached old age yet develop
[35:50] some empathy and understand roughly what
[35:52] it's like.
[35:54] It really is. I remember an author, I
[35:56] think her name is Wu Xinyue, right?
[36:00] She conducted some surveys, visiting
[36:02] nursing homes in county-level cities in
[36:04] southern Jiangsu, and I think she
[36:06] brought up a point that you have
[36:07] mentioned before.
[36:09] I didn't quite understand it in the past
[36:11] . She said our society today has become
[36:14] obsessed with admiring strength.
[36:18] We promote strength all day long, and we
[36:20] promote independence all day long,
[36:22] treating the elderly, the sick, those
[36:24] with dementia, or the disabled as
[36:26] special cases, as if they should even be
[36:29] hidden away.
[36:32] But in reality, what is human
[36:34] independence anyway?
[36:36] You might reach a stage in life.
[36:39] Where you don't even have the energy to
[36:41] feel ashamed, where you can't survive
[36:43] without care, and you are completely
[36:45] immobile.
[36:46] Yes, that’s right.
[36:47] I’ve said this before because society
[36:50] has a default, a "standard human" preset
[36:52] .
[36:53] >> Mm.
[36:54] >> This standard human is usually young and
[36:56] healthy. They are fully mobile and have
[36:58] no problems whatsoever. Society uses
[37:00] this standard for so many spaces,
[37:02] including the digital spaces we
[37:04] mentioned earlier.
[37:06] >> Mm.
[37:07] >> Everything is designed according to this
[37:09] standard.
[37:10] Anything that doesn't fit is categorized
[37:12] as a "special group."
[37:14] But there is a huge problem with this "
[37:16] special group" label, because they
[37:18] aren't a special group; everyone will
[37:20] reach that stage eventually.
[37:23] Everyone follows this path, so it’s
[37:25] actually everyone.
[37:28] For example, when I go to an airport, I
[37:30] often observe that for those with
[37:32] limited mobility, it's simply boundless
[37:34] and endless.
[37:36] >> Take Pudong Airport, for instance, go
[37:38] try walking through it.
[37:41] The design of the airport back then
[37:43] wasn't wrong, the standard design was
[37:45] fine for office workers and white-collar
[37:47] professionals carrying their bags,
[37:49] walking very quickly.
[37:56] Take this airport, if it doesn't have a
[37:58] large amount of those moving walkways,
[38:00] or if they don't provide plenty of
[38:02] things like chairs along the way, or
[38:04] once you reach the restrooms, because
[38:05] one benefit we have now is...Nowadays,
[38:07] nursing rooms are considered, and many
[38:09] places have started to set up
[38:11] specialized areas for them,
[38:18] but they haven't yet considered the
[38:19] elderly who often need to do things like
[38:21] change their diapers when they go out.
[38:24] >> Yeah.
[38:26] >> Because they're wearing diapers, and
[38:28] when they get to those places, they need
[38:30] a lot of handrails; if there are no
[38:32] handrails, they simply can't stand, and
[38:34] they can't squat either, and so...And,
[38:36] including many places we have now that
[38:38] aren't barrier-free, it's honestly a
[38:40] disaster for the elderly.
[38:43] You see, I think what are these things?
[38:46] When the whole society was young, it
[38:47] wasn't a problem. Because the main
[38:50] structure of society was very young. Now
[38:52] , if the elderly population becomes 25%
[38:54] or more. All these spaces have to be
[38:57] completely renovated for me. If they
[38:59] aren't renovated, the elderly really
[39:00] can't go out, and every senior will be
[39:02] stuck at home. Like you said, you don't
[39:04] want them to be hidden, but it's useless
[39:06] , they are forced to be hidden away.
[39:08] Because they can't go out. Yeah.
[39:10] >> A friend of mine recently used a new
[39:12] type of equipment; he tried out an
[39:13] exoskeleton.
[39:15] >> Oh.
[39:16] You know, when you get old and it's
[39:18] inconvenient, it's mainly this middle
[39:20] section, whether your bones can run or
[39:21] walk.
[39:24] He's about a dozen years older than my
[39:26] big brother, and he felt his legs
[39:28] weren't so mobile, and he really loves
[39:30] using these new products, so he bought
[39:32] one, and he said walking felt really
[39:34] easy.
[39:36] No, I'm telling you, right.
[39:38] >> Right, but then he had some issues.
[39:40] >> Did he end up struggling? He went to
[39:41] hike Tiger Leaping Gorge, and first, he
[39:43] found the battery life wasn't enough,
[39:45] and then he ran out of power.
[39:47] >> And carrying a spare battery is heavy,
[39:49] right?
[39:50] >> Second, he said this thing is truly a
[39:52] first-generation product; the design
[39:53] didn't account for things, for example,
[39:55] the battery should be designed to go in
[39:57] from the top, but they designed it from
[39:59] the bottom up, okay? One jump and it
[40:01] fell out.
[40:02] That's a problem, and also, once you get
[40:04] used to it, when you turn off the power
[40:06] and walk on your own, you actually feel
[40:08] like your legs have even less strength.
[40:11] So, this is the first generation, where
[40:13] as an optimist—an optimist gradually
[40:15] growing older—one hopes that these
[40:17] products will get better in the future
[40:19] and help us move more freely.
[40:21] Because I have a student who works on
[40:23] exoskeletons,
[40:24] >> and I discovered a problem, which isn't
[40:26] the same problem Yijun mentioned earlier
[40:28] .
[40:28] >> These exoskeletons currently place quite
[40:30] high demands on the lower back.
[40:32] >> Oh.
[40:33] >> Oh.
[40:33] >> They are trying their best to make the
[40:35] materials lighter and lighter, because
[40:36] if it's heavy, it definitely won't work
[40:38] , but even if it is light, it still
[40:39] affects your waist.
[40:40] >> This is because the lower back is a
[40:41] load-bearing part of the body.
[40:43] >> Right.
[40:43] >> For someone like me, since we are always
[40:45] sitting down, we all have back issues.
[40:48] After a while, you'll find your waist
[40:49] can't take it. When you walk, your legs
[40:52] can be lifted quite high, and it even
[40:54] feels a bit like you're floating.
[40:56] >> But the problem is that this
[40:57] load-bearing area...
[40:58] >> It cannot solve this lower back issue.
[41:00] >> It basically feels like you have to rely
[41:02] on your lower back to control it.
[41:04] >> Right, it's because when you wear it,
[41:06] the entire center of force is
[41:08] concentrated on the lower back area.
[41:10] Yes, the lower back is the most
[41:12] important; that's why I now...
[41:13] >> I feel it deeply. Now that I’ve reached
[41:16] this age, I visit my mother regularly,
[41:18] and we usually do two things together—
[41:20] it's no longer playing mahjong; one is
[41:22] hitting each other's backs, I hit hers
[41:24] for a round, and she massages mine for a
[41:26] round.
[41:27] >> And, of course, I find that very sad.
[41:30] Basically, my mother and I belong to the
[41:32] same life stage.
[41:34] The second thing we do together is
[41:35] scrolling on our phones.
[41:38] She’ll scroll and show me what she sees
[41:40] , like your little drama clips; she is
[41:42] very much aware of what we’re doing,
[41:44] okay.
[41:46] Then I also tell her what I’ve seen.
[41:51] So, when I came to Taiyuan, in the parks
[41:53] outside, I saw seniors older than me
[41:55] sitting there, and I felt happy for them
[41:57] because nine out of ten were scrolling
[41:59] on their phones.
[42:05] I feel there is no difference between
[42:06] them and the young people in shopping
[42:08] mall plazas; the young people have their
[42:10] heads down scrolling, and the seniors
[42:12] here also have their heads down
[42:13] scrolling, so I thought of a saying: the
[42:15] phone is the most fair thing; everyone
[42:17] just sits there and scrolls.
[42:22] As we said before, whenever I see my
[42:23] mother scrolling through her phone,
[42:25] seeing all kinds of new knowledge and
[42:27] entertainment, I think, "Oh, without
[42:29] this phone, without this internet, I’d
[42:31] be miserable."
[42:33] I used to sing to her, but now she
[42:35] watches her phone and listens to songs.
[42:38] >> Right, but here he keeps scrolling and
[42:40] finds that Jin Dong.
[42:41] >> You know, National Committee member of
[42:44] the CPPCC, Comrade Jin Dong, he’s our
[42:47] famous actor.
[42:48] At last year’s Two Sessions, he
[42:50] seriously mentioned that many fans who
[42:52] love his shows have been severely
[42:54] scammed by AI face-swapping.
[42:57] >> Scammed really badly. I mean, a lot of
[43:00] them. Because Jin Dong seems to have a
[43:02] special "middle-aged lady appeal."
[43:04] There’s this woman in her 70s, Grandma
[43:06] Huang, who actually started sleeping in
[43:09] a separate room from her husband and
[43:11] dyed her hair, saying, "Jin Dong has
[43:13] already confessed his love to me online
[43:15] , I’m going to marry Jin Dong." Then she
[43:17] wanted to go to Changchun to find her "
[43:19] brother Dong." And there was another
[43:21] auntie who spent 200,000 just scrolling
[43:24] through this stuff. The AI-swapped Jin
[43:26] Dong would say, "Although I’m a
[43:28] celebrity, I’m also just a regular
[43:30] person, and I want a sincere
[43:32] relationship." Oh my, those ladies went
[43:35] crazy for it. It’s not just Jin Dong.
[43:38] Sometimes there’s someone called "
[43:40] Xiucai" who got banned, and it really
[43:42] makes you feel that older people just
[43:44] have emotional needs.
[43:47] The grandpas seem to like someone called
[43:49] Yiqingcheng, or I can't quite remember.
[43:53] Hearing you talk about it, you’ve
[43:55] already entered their fan circles.
[43:58] >> First, my mom doesn't speak Mandarin, so
[44:00] she doesn't understand it.
[44:03] Second, I often remind and warn my mom,
[44:05] "Don't go scamming people!"
[44:08] She has a real knack for knowing how to
[44:10] tell lies. I’m afraid she might scam
[44:12] others online, you know?
[44:13] >> You told her not to scam people? I told
[44:15] her not to scam others, not to go online
[44:17] to scam anyone.
[44:18] >> You don't want her to scam "Dong," is
[44:19] that it? Exactly.
[44:21] >> So I feel very relieved and happy.
[44:23] Also, when I came in, I saw people who
[44:25] were just scrolling on their phones
[44:27] outside, but inside, it’s completely
[44:29] different.
[44:32] I’m not advertising this place, but I
[44:33] haven't been here much before, and it
[44:35] was eye-opening.
[44:38] When I came in, I saw four or five
[44:40] people of the same age chatting, and the
[44:42] joy they had, that genuine happiness—
[44:44] what did it make me think of?
[44:47] For example, in university, when we hold
[44:49] student activities, we sometimes split
[44:52] into groups. How do we split them up? On
[44:54] one hand, we might let them form groups
[44:56] freely, and on the other, we pair them
[44:58] up ourselves.
[45:01] A group shouldn't just be full of gloomy
[45:03] people; you need some lively ones,
[45:05] people with different personalities to
[45:07] liven things up and make it fun.
[45:12] I'm wondering if this kind of space
[45:14] should be called a nursing home or a
[45:16] retirement home.
[45:20] >> Actually, when accepting new residents,
[45:22] it wouldn't hurt to do a personality
[45:24] assessment for them first.
[45:28] >> That's what I said! I told you I've
[45:30] already arranged a room for you at your
[45:32] place, but Yi-jun said, "I don't like
[45:33] nursing homes."
[45:34] >> Oh, no, that won't do. How do I feel
[45:36] about it?
[45:37] Well, on one hand, I know you'd be well
[45:40] taken care of, which is something I'd be
[45:42] truly grateful for.
[45:44] I think we might really need that when
[45:46] the time comes, right?
[45:48] But as a so-called "Plan B," when I get
[45:50] old, I really don't want to live a
[45:52] collective life.
[45:55] It's taken me so long to break free from
[45:57] all of life's constraints.
[46:01] Think about it: when you reach that age
[46:03] , most of your so-called
[46:04] responsibilities are finished—the kids
[46:06] are grown, your work is done—wouldn't
[46:08] you want to do something else and live a
[46:10] different kind of life?
[46:15] For example, in my ideal old age—though
[46:17] I don't think I'll ever reach it—I'd
[46:19] want to disappear into the mountains and
[46:21] rivers.
[46:22] But who would give me...
[46:23] >> Drift away, right? Exactly. Who would
[46:26] bathe me then?
[46:27] >> Better to stay closer to the hospital.
[46:30] Look at our mutual friend, the great
[46:32] writer Chang Ta-chun.
[46:34] He has a book called "Listening to
[46:36] Father" about caring for his elderly
[46:38] father.
[46:40] There's a scene at the beginning that
[46:41] really moved me: he was bathing his
[46:43] father.
[46:45] He touched the most private parts of his
[46:47] father's body.
[46:50] Then, when he touched his father's back
[46:52] .
[46:54] His hands made him recall how his father
[46:56] used to carry him on his back and how
[46:57] they survived those tough times.
[47:01] By then, the physical contact is no
[47:03] longer about those youthful thoughts, so
[47:05] you can rest assured, I will still...
[47:08] >> You don't have that either.
[47:10] >> I forgot if I was young, or who knows.
[47:14] >> I'm not building muscle now, so maybe.
[47:16] See, speaking of building muscle, you
[47:18] mentioned using your lower back just now
[47:20] ; there’s definitely a lot to it. I
[47:22] suddenly remembered, regarding what I
[47:24] said about "storing" muscle, I
[47:26] previously interviewed many seniors here
[47:28] , and one sentence really struck a chord
[47:30] with me. They said, "Illness is actually
[47:32] the best teacher." It's just that, if
[47:34] you discover you're ill—actually, many
[47:36] people have had very serious illnesses.
[47:38] You know you're sick, so you start
[47:40] exercising, you start preventing other
[47:41] diseases. For me, I started back in my
[47:43] 20s, my lower back was never good; I
[47:45] couldn't, couldn't carry heavy things.
[47:47] At airport security, I'd always have to
[47:49] ask someone nearby, "Could you help me
[47:51] lift that suitcase up?" Or when boarding
[47:52] a plane, I definitely couldn't do it
[47:54] myself. And every time I had to explain
[47:56] to others—people look at you, you have
[47:57] hands and feet, why would you need help
[47:59] ? But every time I still had to ask
[48:00] someone. Later, I started training,
[48:02] really training, just to work on this
[48:05] back—am I better now? You mean like "
[48:07] iron shirt" kung fu or something, right
[48:09] ?
[48:10] >> My point is, it’s never too late to
[48:12] start training.
[48:13] >> Also, take my grandmother who's over 90.
[48:15] For a period, she was at home by herself
[48:18] , living alone.
[48:20] Although she could still take care of
[48:22] herself, because she hadn't talked to
[48:23] anyone for a long time, you noticed she
[48:25] started to fade a bit.
[48:28] We often think that for an elderly
[48:30] person, as long as they can eat and
[48:32] sleep, it's fine, but that’s not true—
[48:34] they definitely need interaction.
[48:38] After we put her in that nursing home,
[48:40] at first we thought she might not adapt
[48:42] to a new collective life, wondering if
[48:43] she could really socialize with so many
[48:45] people.
[48:47] Hey, you found she suddenly became much
[48:49] more talkative. Just doing some crafts
[48:52] every day, throwing a ball back and
[48:53] forth, and suddenly she's talking more.
[48:56] You'd think at over 90, her brain
[48:57] neurons—I feel they can still reconnect
[49:00] . Yes, exactly.
[49:02] >> Have you ever thought about our own old
[49:04] age?
[49:06] Just like you said, these past few
[49:08] decades, we’ve never really planned for
[49:11] it.
[49:12] >> Yeah, that’s right, because it feels so
[49:14] distant.
[49:14] >> True. Will we all live there in the
[49:16] future? Right now, it seems like those
[49:18] in nursing homes are still the minority
[49:20] .
[49:20] >> Most Chinese families are still taking
[49:22] care of them at home.
[49:23] >> Yes, that’s right.
[49:25] >> So what will happen in the future?
[49:28] Children will be even less able to take
[49:29] care of their aging parents.
[49:32] >> Uh, this was first proposed by Shanghai
[49:34] , because in terms of aging cities,
[49:36] Beijing and Shanghai are among the
[49:38] oldest, meaning they have a larger
[49:40] elderly population. So Shanghai was the
[49:43] first to propose this "9073" plan.
[49:48] It’s a ratio; it basically means 90%of
[49:51] people stay at home, right?
[49:55] >> Yes, and 7%rely on community-based care
[49:57] , which in essence is still staying at
[50:00] home. It's just that the community
[50:02] support might be a little more
[50:03] substantial. And only 3%of people are in
[50:05] nursing homes, so we are here talking,
[50:08] and they are likely among the top tier
[50:10] of that 3%, which is actually very, very
[50:12] small. If you put that into the context
[50:14] of China's entire large population, it
[50:16] is completely negligible.
[50:17] >> Right.
[50:19] >> So the reality is that both exist.
[50:22] And of course, I am not saying it will
[50:23] always be this way, because it is very
[50:25] clear that there are fewer people at
[50:27] home to provide care.
[50:28] >> Exactly.
[50:28] >> There simply aren't enough people left
[50:30] at home to take care of others.
[50:31] >> Right, so what will happen to this
[50:32] society in the future?
[50:33] >> So it definitely has to shift from being
[50:35] at home to being in society. But moving
[50:38] it to society involves a lot of
[50:40] complexities.
[50:42] For instance, going to a nursing home
[50:44] versus staying at home but having strong
[50:46] support within the community—I think
[50:48] those are two paths.
[50:54] You know, I saw a social survey saying
[50:56] that for 18 to 35-year-olds—these are
[50:59] young people—a few years ago, when asked
[51:01] if they had considered their future
[51:03] old-age care, about 70-something percent
[51:06] said they hadn't, because of their age.
[51:13] But in the latest survey from a couple
[51:15] of years ago, that dropped to 40-
[51:17] something percent, meaning more than
[51:19] half of the current 18 to 35-year-old
[51:21] demographic has already started
[51:23] consulting about things like pension
[51:25] insurance.
[51:27] Right, because—it's like a rabbit hole,
[51:29] but maybe we shouldn't call it a rabbit
[51:31] hole, what should we call it? It's just
[51:33] thinking, starting to think, what will
[51:35] we do when we're old? Who can we count
[51:37] on?
[51:37] >> Right, you...
[51:38] >> Seeing more makes a difference, seeing
[51:40] more is very important.
[51:41] >> Can you count on your daughter, or how
[51:42] will you rely on your daughter in the
[51:43] future? Do you, do you count on them?
[51:45] Let's see.
[51:46] I count on myself, I count on the stock
[51:48] market.
[51:51] >> Because seeing things is very important
[51:52] .
[51:54] To return to my experience just now,
[51:56] every time I go to places with many
[51:57] elderly people.
[52:00] I see two elderly issues: one is my
[52:02] elder, which is my mother now, and the
[52:04] other is myself.
[52:06] So, the meaning of an aging society is
[52:08] that it is too common for the elderly to
[52:10] take care of the elderly.
[52:11] >> Right. My mother is over 80, I look at
[52:14] her spirit and her health now.
[52:16] >> You now have 60-somethings taking care
[52:18] of 80-somethings.
[52:19] >> In the past, it was 70-somethings taking
[52:21] care of 80-or 90-somethings.
[52:24] I used to take my father to the hospital
[52:26] many times, and I'd see an 80-something
[52:28] pushing a 100-year-old, someone who had
[52:30] become like a baby sitting in a
[52:32] wheelchair; the elderly caring for the
[52:34] elderly.
[52:36] So as soon as I walked in, I was
[52:37] reminded of those two elderly issues
[52:39] again.
[52:43] I’m considering my mother, wondering
[52:45] when to find a suitable nursing home for
[52:46] her, and at the same time, I’m
[52:48] immediately thinking about how to plan
[52:50] for my own later years.
[52:55] That’s why I said visibility is so
[52:57] important, especially when we look at
[52:59] our films, our Hong Kong cinema, and the
[53:01] stars of our movies.
[53:03] Hey, Andy Lau is over 60, and Tony Leung
[53:06] is around that age too, right? OK, he’s
[53:09] over 60 too.
[53:12] They are still A-listers in their 60s,
[53:14] even older, and Chow Yun-fat is over 70.
[53:16] When we see that these influential
[53:18] figures in the film industry are already
[53:21] in their 60s and 70s, how can you not
[53:23] think about yourself?
[53:26] So, the survey you mentioned shows more
[53:28] and more people are thinking about it
[53:30] because they’ve heard more, seen more,
[53:32] and experienced more.
[53:35] Because what I mean is this: If we take
[53:37] Professor Chen’s view and set 100 years
[53:39] as the human limit, there is indeed a
[53:41] problem; in the past, we imagined the
[53:43] last stage of life as just "living out
[53:45] one’s remaining years."
[53:49] >> Not worth mentioning, right?
[53:51] Just fading away in one's twilight years
[53:53] , but now, if human lifespans are
[53:55] actually extending, with many living
[53:57] into their 80s, 90s, or even 100.
[54:00] Then this final stretch, starting from
[54:03] 60, is 40 years long. Those 40 years are
[54:05] enough for a whole lifetime, or at least
[54:07] half a lifetime.
[54:08] >> The question is how to plan and how to
[54:10] spend it, even though, in reality, the
[54:12] body is gradually declining. Have you
[54:14] ever pondered this issue?
[54:15] >> Because life stages are different now;
[54:18] they used to be clearly divided into
[54:20] childhood, adolescence, then
[54:22] >> middle age, and then old age. Now, I
[54:25] think at least four stages, or even six
[54:27] , would be completely accurate.
[54:31] It’s that there is now a very long
[54:33] period before adulthood where people are
[54:35] not yet truly "adult."
[54:37] >> Hmm.
[54:37] >> Isn't there that popular internet term
[54:39] now, the "Odyssey Years"?
[54:41] >> Hmm.
[54:41] >> The Odyssey Years are from 18 to 35,
[54:43] just as you said.
[54:45] >> That period.
[54:45] >> Right, as you mentioned, it used to be
[54:47] that once you got them through college,
[54:49] they would be independent; now,
[54:51] graduating from college doesn't mean
[54:53] much.
[54:54] For instance, they graduate in their 20s
[54:56] , but they still aren't truly adults in
[54:58] their 30s.
[54:59] >> So, after adolescence, there’s this
[55:01] extra phase; I don’t know what
[55:03] demographers call it, but on the
[55:05] internet, it’s known as the "Odyssey
[55:07] Years," a term coined by an American
[55:09] author.
[55:10] >> And of course, how you...
[55:11] >> Still drifting, you mean? Just nothing
[55:14] set, nothing settled, yeah, nothing at
[55:16] all.
[55:17] >> And what's more, quite a few people
[55:19] around me are living off their parents.
[55:24] >> Then, as you look further ahead, you
[55:26] reach what we might call the early years
[55:28] of retirement.
[55:32] For instance, with China’s current
[55:34] policy at 60, let’s say from 60 to 75.
[55:38] During this period, one is generally
[55:40] still quite healthy.
[55:41] >> Yes.
[55:42] >> It’s hard to say what happens after, but
[55:44] this is essentially bonus time, and how
[55:46] to spend it is truly a major matter. Hmm
[55:48] .
[55:49] >> Right.
[55:49] >> How would you like to arrange it?
[55:52] >> I’ve been wanting to suggest lately that
[55:54] when you’re young, you should read a
[55:55] book—Seneca’s "On the Shortness of Life
[55:57] ."
[55:59] >> Hmm.
[56:00] >> He starts by telling you—Seneca, that is
[56:03] .
[56:05] >> He tells us something right off the bat
[56:07] that I found truly eye-opening: we all
[56:09] feel that life is exceptionally short.
[56:11] Actually, it’s true. You mentioned those
[56:13] 18-to 25-year-olds starting to plan for
[56:15] old age, because everyone is realizing
[56:17] this now.
[56:19] But he says life is short, yet if you
[56:21] make good use of it, it is a life worth
[56:23] living.
[56:24] So, what does "making good use of it"
[56:26] mean?
[56:27] Actually, when you're young, you really
[56:29] should plan for the future, not waste
[56:31] your time, or avoid doing meaningless
[56:33] things.
[56:35] Of course, a lot of time in life has to
[56:38] be "wasted" in a sense; like wandering
[56:40] or being lost, it’s also a way of
[56:42] accumulating experience.
[56:44] But once you realize this, you’ll keep
[56:46] the words "make good use" in your mind.
[56:49] That’s why I keep emphasizing that we
[56:51] need to start building muscle, saving
[56:53] money, and cultivating intellectual
[56:55] interests.
[56:56] This isn't a joke; I've found you really
[56:58] need to do it.
[56:59] When we were young—like me, when I was
[57:01] young—I’d think, "Social security?
[57:04] Savings? Who knows where I’ll be in 20
[57:07] years?" You really think that way, and
[57:09] you just forgo those things. It’s true,
[57:11] but then you suddenly find that 20 years
[57:13] have passed in a flash, and wow, you
[57:15] didn’t prepare at all.
[57:17] >> Yes, yes.
[57:18] >> And you end up with regrets.
[57:20] >> I am now...
[57:21] >> Like an animal that didn't gather enough
[57:23] food for hibernation.
[57:24] >> Exactly that, exactly that.
[57:26] >> Honestly, for me now, I can't even store
[57:28] up muscle anymore. Haven't you been
[57:30] training lately? You look quite thin.
[57:32] >> I’m just left with being thin, no muscle
[57:34] .
[57:34] >> I said he looks very sharp and spirited
[57:36] today.
[57:36] >> And hobbies are alright, it's just this
[57:38] , yes. I think hobbies will become a
[57:40] very important mental world for me in
[57:42] the future.
[57:43] If you like something, you can stay
[57:45] inside all day.
[57:47] I've also noticed that my friends who
[57:49] have hobbies are truly in better
[57:50] emotional states, though I haven't
[57:52] seriously considered the finances. It is
[57:54] finances, and it's also a risk. Some
[57:57] people—not everyone—need that much
[57:58] wealth to support their retirement.
[58:00] There are people online saying "
[58:01] millions might not even be enough for
[58:03] retirement," right? But that doesn't
[58:05] mean everyone must reach that kind of
[58:06] status. Just now, Mr. Hu mentioned the
[58:08] issue of nursing homes. I saw a figure
[58:10] that in our country, it's not that we
[58:12] don't have enough nursing homes, but
[58:13] that the vacancy rate is actually very
[58:15] high.
[58:15] >> Ah.
[58:16] >> Yes, why is that? Top-tier nursing homes
[58:18] are too expensive for people to get into
[58:20] , while the lower-end ones aren't good
[58:21] enough, so people don't want to go there
[58:23] either. That's the issue; elderly care
[58:25] services probably haven't kept up.
[58:27] >> And for those at the grassroots level,
[58:29] they find even those nursing homes too
[58:31] expensive.
[58:32] >> Yes, or their mindset doesn't keep up.
[58:34] But China's population is inevitably
[58:36] facing a significant decline, right?
[58:39] At this point, our generation can't rely
[58:41] solely on our children to provide for us
[58:43] in the future. I always say people talk
[58:45] about "raising children to provide for
[58:47] old age.""
[58:47] >> Raising children, but not for old age,"
[58:50] exactly, that’s just how it is.
[58:51] >> You've spent all your retirement savings
[58:53] .
[58:53] >> Yes, that's exactly what it is,
[58:55] including your energy and your health—
[58:57] everything is poured into the kids, it's
[58:59] true.
[59:00] >> So, you can't rely on that, which means
[59:02] in the future, it will definitely be
[59:04] institutions or the market that we rely
[59:06] on. Therefore, we should focus on the
[59:08] elderly care industry, and elderly care
[59:10] services must keep up. And I think in
[59:12] the future, China—I always say this—I
[59:14] personally believe three major
[59:16] industries will see growth. First, the
[59:18] service industry. You know, many of the
[59:20] service staff here in Thailand are
[59:22] university students.
[59:24] Their jobs weren't recognized before.
[59:26] If you ask someone, "What do you do for
[59:28] a living?" They say they go on blind
[59:30] dates, but they're discriminated against
[59:31] , being told they just change diapers
[59:33] for the elderly; they feel stigmatized.
[59:35] But these people will be in high demand
[59:37] later on; there aren't enough of these
[59:38] job positions. Yes.
[59:40] >> Yes, you know, I'm talking about a
[59:42] scholar from Wuxi who specifically went
[59:44] to a nursing home in a county-level city
[59:46] in Southern Jiangsu to conduct an
[59:48] investigation. Once you look into it,
[59:50] you'll find that nursing fees, meal
[59:52] costs, and everything else add up to
[59:54] over 3,000 yuan, and some people living
[59:56] there are even from rural areas. For
[59:58] instance, the first to fourth floors are
[60:00] for those who are still mobile. Those
[60:02] who are more disabled or cognitively
[60:04] impaired are on the fifth floor and
[60:05] above.
[60:06] He discovered that these elderly people
[60:08] love to use a certain phrase, which in
[60:10] their dialect sounds like "waiting for
[60:12] death."
[60:14] >> Oh.
[60:15] >> Is it "waiting for death"?
[60:18] It's basically that these seniors have a
[60:20] feeling, just breakfast, lunch, and
[60:22] dinner.
[60:23] After eating, it's like, "Sigh, another
[60:25] day has passed." You know, a while ago,
[60:28] I watched that Martin Scorsese film, *
[60:30] The Irishman*.
[60:32] At the beginning, I thought of that
[60:34] image, and it reminded me of some
[60:36] nursing homes where, honestly, one old
[60:38] man after another might sit in a
[60:40] wheelchair for hours without even
[60:42] watching TV.
[60:43] >> Just staring blankly.
[60:44] >> Staring blankly.
[60:47] And you know, there's this caregiver,
[60:49] and an elderly woman dropped some cookie
[60:51] crumbs on the floor and reached out to
[60:53] sweep them, but the caregiver just said
[60:55] , "Don't move, just keep eating."
[60:58] Because they're afraid of accidents.
[61:01] For example, if an old man falls and
[61:03] breaks his leg, the family will come to
[61:05] the nursing home claiming he was
[61:07] exercising, and we'd eventually have to
[61:09] pay compensation.
[61:11] So, what is the situation like in these
[61:14] county-level nursing homes? It means
[61:16] that, in a way, the elderly are actually
[61:18] having their freedom restricted.
[61:21] Including the nursing staff; they tell
[61:23] you, "Don't move, just stay there."
[61:26] They don't encourage you to move; if you
[61:28] do anything, you're better off staying
[61:30] put.
[61:31] These so-called nursing aides are
[61:33] actually mostly older women from rural
[61:35] areas; we just call them "Auntie."
[61:38] They themselves feel looked down upon
[61:40] for doing this kind of work. For example
[61:42] , during his investigation, he saw a
[61:45] nursing aide, an auntie from the
[61:47] countryside, moving a grandma—a rather
[61:49] heavy one, not easy at all. You know,
[61:52] lifting takes technique, I've learned
[61:54] that, right?
[61:56] You have to hold them like this, let
[61:58] them hug you, and drag them to move them
[62:00] into a wheelchair.
[62:02] After a huge effort to get her into the
[62:04] chair, she seemed to vent a bit,
[62:06] pointing at the grandma and saying, "
[62:08] Only we do this kind of work. Look at
[62:11] college students and PhDs, they would
[62:13] never do the work we do."
[62:16] She looks down on cleaning up waste and
[62:18] nursing, so he mentioned that language
[62:20] is important.
[62:22] >> He suggested that they should be called
[62:24] "care specialists" from now on.
[62:25] >> Because when you say "nursing aide"...
[62:27] >> Caregivers in Japan.
[62:29] >> Oh, "caregivers"—that's a profession.
[62:32] It really is much more professional than
[62:34] what family members do, just...
[62:35] >> Could US universities open a major like
[62:37] this?
[62:38] >> They probably have it.
[62:39] >> Actually, no. What's needed first is a
[62:41] reform of medical schools.
[62:44] They already have a nursing major.
[62:46] >> Mm-hmm. But the nursing major still
[62:48] focuses on serving people within the
[62:50] hospital.
[62:52] What we really need now is for people
[62:54] with this kind of professional
[62:55] caregiving training to reach into the
[62:57] community.
[62:59] Even into the home.
[63:01] >> Mm-hmm.
[63:02] >> It’s like this, because...
[63:04] >> Because medical and nursing staff are
[63:06] still all in hospitals.
[63:07] >> They aren't outside.
[63:10] When you're at home, if you need this,
[63:12] first, there must be enough people
[63:14] coming out of hospitals, and second,
[63:16] there's definitely the issue of
[63:18] qualifications.
[63:21] Because once you're in the hospital,
[63:22] everything seems controllable. If
[63:24] something happens at home, who bears the
[63:27] risk?
[63:29] >> They need the qualifications, and there
[63:30] needs to be authorization for these
[63:32] people to perform this role in the home
[63:34] .
[63:36] I think this would solve a great many
[63:37] problems.
[63:41] There are technical issues, language
[63:42] barriers, and the mindset of caregiving
[63:44] —all are needed, but we can't wait for
[63:46] the whole system to catch up before we
[63:48] grow old.
[63:50] Aging won't stop.
[63:53] You can't say, "Since the system isn't
[63:55] ready and training isn't caught up, I
[63:57] won't grow old."
[63:59] It's not that simple; it's not perfect.
[64:02] So, you still have to plan for yourself
[64:04] and think ahead. Look at resources—I
[64:06] read reports that large numbers of
[64:08] elderly people in Hong Kong are moving
[64:10] to Guangdong.
[64:10] >> Right.
[64:12] >> And Germans are moving to Poland.
[64:16] >> Do the British go to India?
[64:18] Yes.
[64:18] >> To warmer places, I suppose. Well, that
[64:21] depends on everyone's individual
[64:23] circumstances, abilities, and options.
[64:25] I mean, you have to plan ahead yourself
[64:27] ; you can't wait for the system to
[64:29] change, so your mindset is very
[64:30] important.
[64:33] I have personally started adjusting my
[64:35] own mindset, realizing that even before
[64:37] you're old, life isn't necessarily
[64:39] perfect.
[64:41] >> Mm-hmm.
[64:42] >> In your teens, you have teen health
[64:44] issues and psychological problems.
[64:47] The confusion about the future is just
[64:49] as painful.
[64:51] Then in middle age, work is exhausting,
[64:53] and you face many interpersonal
[64:55] relationship and emotional blows.
[64:59] So when you're old, whether you live at
[65:01] home or in a nursing home, if it's not
[65:02] what you hoped for, then just let it be
[65:04] .
[65:07] Sometimes we see those who are miserable
[65:09] ; it's suffering for them, and life is
[65:11] nothing but suffering.
[65:14] And that kind of suffering, especially
[65:16] the suffering of old age, sometimes we
[65:18] feel for them even if we aren't old
[65:20] ourselves, or when we see the elderly,
[65:22] we feel their pain.
[65:24] I’ve mentally prepared myself by saying
[65:26] that every age has its own suffering.
[65:29] I’ve also divided my next 20 years, for
[65:32] instance, from 63 to 83, into two phases
[65:34] —what I can do from my 60s to 70s, as I
[65:37] just mentioned about cultivation.
[65:41] You might wonder what I want to do.
[65:43] People often think I’m joking.
[65:45] Professor Hu might be hearing this for
[65:47] the first time: after I finish writing
[65:49] my novel, can I talk about it? "
[65:51] Chronicles of Two Heavens." But if I
[65:53] talk about it, others will steal the
[65:55] idea.
[65:55] >> No, they won't, I’ll help you protect it
[65:58] .
[65:58] >> I often say that once I finish my book
[65:59] and pen my final work, I’ll hold a
[66:01] concert. Yes, hold a concert. My friends
[66:03] all laugh, but you’re the only one who
[66:05] didn't. I really mean it, I'm going to
[66:07] hold a concert.
[66:08] >> I’m currently trying to process this.
[66:10] >> A concert.
[66:11] >> It’s hard to digest.
[66:12] >> I'm going to sing, too.
[66:15] >> I’ve even thought of the setlist; the
[66:17] first song is "I Have a Pair of
[66:18] Skateboard Shoes."
[66:20] Why not?
[66:21] Why can’t I?
[66:23] It’s just about giving myself a
[66:24] challenge.
[66:26] Alright, after passing the first stage
[66:28] of old age and finishing these
[66:30] challenging tasks, I’ll move on to the
[66:32] second.
[66:35] I’m not sure what it will be then; maybe
[66:36] I’ll really focus on building muscle.
[66:40] >> I think what you’re saying aligns with
[66:42] what Yijun said, about storing muscle
[66:44] and storing money.
[66:46] Exactly.
[66:46] >> Storing brainpower, right? Storing
[66:49] hobbies—it all comes down to storing.
[66:51] >> I’m not just storing; I’m acting on it.
[66:53] I’m really going to hold a concert, and
[66:54] I’ll give you a ticket when the time
[66:56] comes.
[66:56] >> Then I’ll definitely have to go.
[66:57] >> By then, you’ll be coming in a
[66:59] wheelchair.
[66:59] >> Tell me, Wentao, what about your next 40
[67:01] years? How do you plan to live it out?
[67:03] Tell us.
[67:04] >> I really don’t have such a rich
[67:05] imagination. Because it’s hard for me to
[67:08] imagine a phase—have you ever thought
[67:10] about it?
[67:11] —where perhaps for a long time, you
[67:13] won’t be able to handle your own bodily
[67:15] functions?
[67:17] >> A caregiver helps you every day; it
[67:19] seems everyone is used to thinking that
[67:21] it’s usually women who do this kind of
[67:24] work, and indeed, it is mostly women.
[67:28] >> That’s true, but even the caregivers
[67:30] feel embarrassed at first.
[67:33] I just think about that day, if for a
[67:35] long period you are stuck in bed, having
[67:37] to use the toilet in bed, just lying
[67:39] there, and in reality, you only have
[67:42] half your consciousness left.
[67:45] You might not be able to think clearly;
[67:47] you could experience hallucinations, or
[67:49] even psychiatric symptoms—this is
[67:51] entirely possible, like with dementia.
[67:55] Do you think you'll still be in control
[67:56] of yourself?
[67:58] >> You will be controlled by these
[67:59] psychiatric symptoms. You might become
[68:01] suspicious.
[68:03] You might become paranoid.
[68:06] You might feel that all the doctors and
[68:07] nurses are trying to harm you. This is a
[68:09] state we haven't reached yet, but it's a
[68:11] possibility. How long would you want to
[68:13] live in that state?
[68:14] >> Like, you...
[68:15] >> Would you be willing to live in that
[68:16] state?
[68:16] >> I actually have a bit of a say on this.
[68:18] >> Yes, I've been looking into—well, not
[68:20] researching exactly, but paying
[68:22] attention to the issue of adult diapers
[68:24] for the elderly.
[68:26] Right, it sounds like a simple thing,
[68:28] but it’s actually not.
[68:32] In those caregiver support groups I'm in
[68:34] , they discuss every day what kind of
[68:36] diapers they should use.
[68:38] But many times, I can't use regular
[68:40] diapers; I have to use what are called
[68:43] pull-up pants.
[68:44] >> Hmm.
[68:44] >> Do you know the difference between
[68:46] pull-ups and diapers? I...
[68:47] >> Yes, I do. I often buy them for my
[68:49] grandmother, so I know.
[68:50] >> There are also the ones that go
[68:51] underneath.
[68:51] >> And the pads that are placed on top are
[68:53] called underpads. Hmm.
[68:55] >> Sometimes, inside the diaper, there's
[68:57] also something called a liner.
[69:00] Or a booster pad.
[69:02] Do you know why they discuss this every
[69:03] day?
[69:06] It's because incontinence......is every
[69:08] caregiver's nightmare.
[69:11] Because it means you have to wash things
[69:13] over and over again.
[69:15] You have to keep cleaning the elderly
[69:17] person's body repeatedly.
[69:19] And if this happens a couple of times
[69:21] during the night, you just can't get any
[69:23] sleep at all.
[69:24] >> You've experienced this firsthand.
[69:27] >> Yes, or when you go out, because
[69:28] sometimes you have to go to the hospital
[69:31] .
[69:33] Right, this issue, strictly speaking, is
[69:35] just about a small piece of non-woven
[69:38] fabric.
[69:41] But you have to make that non-woven
[69:42] fabric highly absorbent.
[69:46] And the side leak guards need to be wide
[69:48] enough.
[69:50] And it shouldn't hold odors.
[69:54] In the summer, it can't be too thick, or
[69:57] you'll develop rashes.
[70:01] >> There are so many things—just like what
[70:03] you mentioned about the caregiver
[70:05] looking after an elderly man.
[70:07] >> Yes.
[70:08] >> Actually, for elderly women, due to
[70:10] physiological reasons, it might be...
[70:12] >> It's actually a bigger challenge for
[70:14] them than for elderly men.
[70:16] >> Yes.
[70:18] So, this is the concrete and subtle
[70:21] reality of life; I mean, you’ll
[70:23] eventually reach that point.
[70:28] That’s why I’m saying manufacturers
[70:30] really need to research how to develop
[70:32] the best diapers for the elderly, just
[70:34] like they do for babies.
[70:38] >> Mm.
[70:40] >> There are famous brands and various
[70:42] tiers for baby products, but for the
[70:44] elderly, diapers are cheap, and the
[70:46] materials aren't high quality.
[70:49] Thirdly, there are hardly any brands
[70:51] even now.
[70:52] It just goes to show that we don't value
[70:54] the market for the elderly at all.
[70:57] >> Yet, the probability of elderly people
[70:59] needing to use adult diapers is
[71:01] extremely high.
[71:03] >> What you’ve said really resonates with
[71:05] me.
[71:06] Actually, this society...
[71:08] ...
[71:09] >> toward children...
[71:10] ...
[71:11] >> is full of hope.
[71:13] But regarding the elderly, it’s
[71:15] sometimes truly a human fate.
[71:20] My brother once told me about a
[71:21] documentary he saw, featuring an
[71:23] animation.
[71:26] It illustrated that some things are just
[71:28] unavoidable.
[71:30] He said the animation depicted humans,
[71:32] from primates......marching forward in a
[71:34] line.
[71:36] The children are at the front, while the
[71:39] elderly behind them gradually stoop over
[71:41] , falling further and further behind the
[71:43] group.
[71:46] My brother said that image really struck
[71:48] him—the elderly at the very back
[71:50] becoming more and more hunched, until
[71:52] they finally collapsed on the ground.
[71:55] They cry out, and someone in the prime
[71:57] of life in the middle of the line turns
[72:00] back, helps the elderly person up, and
[72:02] continues walking, but the elder falls
[72:04] again after just a few steps, and that
[72:06] person looks back once more.
[72:09] The elder calls out again, but the
[72:10] person eventually keeps moving forward
[72:12] because the children are still leading
[72:14] the way.
[72:16] This is the human procession; in the end
[72:19] , the elderly just...but...
[72:22] >> Mm.
[72:25] >> But I always feel that maybe now we have
[72:27] the conditions to soften this cruel
[72:29] biological law.
[72:33] I think what Professor Hu just said
[72:35] perfectly illustrates that there is
[72:36] great potential in the silver economy.
[72:39] The silver economy doesn’t mean you have
[72:41] to profit off the elderly, but it does
[72:43] show that our care for them is
[72:44] insufficient.
[72:45] How can we develop products that truly
[72:47] meet their needs, just like we care for
[72:49] children?
[72:50] It shows there is great potential.
[72:53] I also really empathize with what you
[72:54] said about your mom.
[72:57] I also feel a lot of guilt because I
[72:59] can't be by her side, and I often blame
[73:00] myself, but I’ve recently come to terms
[73:02] with it.
[73:05] >> Do you know why?
[73:06] One thing I've realized is that as long
[73:08] as your parents are around, your
[73:09] childhood never really ends; you remain
[73:11] a child until the day they leave.
[73:13] When my mother passed away, I became
[73:15] very clearly aware that my childhood had
[73:17] come to an end.
[73:20] When they are there, you are always
[73:22] essentially a child, so you can never
[73:24] take care of them the way they took care
[73:25] of you, because in your heart, you are
[73:27] still that child.
[73:31] You see many people today who are
[73:32] already working, yet when they go out to
[73:34] eat with their parents, they expect the
[73:36] parents to pay, and it feels normal,
[73:38] because as long as your parents are
[73:39] there, you are still a child.
[73:42] You cannot manage to take care of them
[73:43] the way they took care of you.
[73:45] Right, you are always that willful,
[73:47] selfish child.
[73:48] >> You are allowed to be a child. Another
[73:50] thing is, this year on Mother's Day—in
[73:52] the past, whenever that holiday came
[73:54] around, I would definitely think of my
[73:56] mom, right? But this year, for the whole
[73:58] day, I took my kids out to play, and I
[73:59] said, "Hey, you should wish me a happy
[74:01] holiday or something." When the day was
[74:03] coming to an end, I suddenly woke up to
[74:05] the realization: "Wait, this didn't
[74:06] happen today!" I felt—on one hand, I
[74:08] wondered if I should blame myself, how
[74:10] could I have forgotten her?
[74:12] >> On Mother's Day, I only thought of
[74:13] myself as a mother, how could that be?
[74:16] >> Yes, exactly, it shows I’ve moved on.
[74:20] I feel like I'm now on the front line of
[74:22] responsibility, and everything is up to
[74:24] me; there is no one left to carry things
[74:26] for me.
[74:28] That's actually a great comfort, really
[74:30] .
[74:32] So, I'm curious, under what
[74:33] circumstances do you suddenly think of
[74:35] her?
[74:36] Or, when do you suddenly think of her?
[74:39] I'll tell you, I never even dream about
[74:41] her, which makes me feel guilty.
[74:44] But once, at an event, I met the wife of
[74:46] Mr. Xu Zizong, and I took a photo with
[74:48] her.
[74:50] At the time, because she was a TV star
[74:52] we all loved during our childhood, I
[74:54] thought to myself, "I want to take this
[74:56] photo to show my mom."
[74:58] In that moment, I suddenly remembered
[74:59] she wasn't there anymore. Hmm.
[75:02] >> So, it's not that you think of her
[75:04] absence, but rather that you assume she
[75:06] is still there, and that hits you hard.
[75:10] Professor Hu, I want to ask you a
[75:11] question, because we all know that you
[75:13] took care of your mother.
[75:15] >> Yes.
[75:16] >> That was truly a life with no regrets, I
[75:18] feel. I mean, you sacrificed your job as
[75:20] a university professor, basically...
[75:23] >> You can't really say it like that.
[75:24] >> Essentially, you were caring for your
[75:26] mother at home the whole time.
[75:30] I feel that because you paid such a high
[75:32] price to care for her until her final
[75:35] days, perhaps it was easier for you to
[75:37] move on after she passed, feeling that
[75:39] ...
[75:41] >> You had fulfilled your duty, so you have
[75:43] no regrets in life, right? Your topic is
[75:46] really interesting, because previously,
[75:48] due to this experience, I’ve been in
[75:50] contact with many caregivers. They often
[75:52] ask for my advice. Especially now,
[75:54] Alzheimer's is trending toward younger
[75:56] patients, so many caregivers are
[75:58] actually quite young—some are even from
[76:01] the post-90s generation.
[76:03] The age of the parents getting sick is
[76:05] dropping, and when they ask me for
[76:07] advice, my answer is four words: do not
[76:09] feel guilty.
[76:11] Do not feel guilty.
[76:12] >> Do not feel...
[76:14] >> Just don't feel guilty.
[76:15] First, guilt is an emotion.
[76:18] But this emotion is time-bound.
[76:21] It is an emotion tied to a specific time
[76:24] .
[76:25] Yes, meaning it’s only when you look
[76:27] back later and think about it.
[76:30] That you feel guilty, because if you had
[76:32] felt that way at the time, you would
[76:34] have done those things then. You would
[76:36] have done them; so you feel guilty
[76:38] because, for whatever reason, you didn't
[76:40] do them back then.
[76:40] >> Right.
[76:41] >> You didn't do it, and later when you
[76:43] reflect on it,
[76:43] >> you no longer have the chance to do it.
[76:45] So your guilt stems from that, which is
[76:47] why I say it is...
[76:48] >> something with a temporal structure.
[76:50] >> Yes.
[76:51] >> It just proves that later on, you are
[76:52] actually reflecting on yourself to some
[76:54] degree.
[76:55] You have a reflection, thinking that you
[76:57] didn't do well in the past.
[76:59] >> Yes, I could have done better, but for
[77:01] various reasons, I didn't. Right.
[77:09] >> And this, on one hand, I feel allows you
[77:11] to grow, because after reflecting, you
[77:12] realize to some extent that there are
[77:14] many things you could have worked harder
[77:16] on.
[77:22] And furthermore, I think it’s useful for
[77:24] other aspects of life.
[77:26] That’s one point.
[77:28] The second point is, no matter how much
[77:30] you do, you will still...Do you
[77:31] understand what I mean?
[77:34] >> Like you, having done everything you did
[77:36] ...
[77:37] >> I would still feel guilty.
[77:39] >> What else could you have failed to do?
[77:40] You did everything.
[77:41] >> There are so many points of guilt.
[77:44] For instance, I often have this deep
[77:46] realization about a term you used that
[77:48] wasn't quite appropriate, that "rabbit
[77:51] dies, fox grieves" expression—it just
[77:53] doesn't fit. So what is the best, most
[77:56] fitting term? It’s "to see oneself in
[77:58] others."
[77:59] >> Hmm.
[77:59] >> Is it originally "to extend empathy to
[78:01] others"? It's about seeing oneself in
[78:04] others; it means that by caring for your
[78:06] parents, you see your own future in them
[78:08] .
[78:09] Because they fall ill step by step, they
[78:11] grow frail, and then they pass away.
[78:15] In truth, this process is just how life
[78:17] goes for everyone, so you end up
[78:19] reflecting on it in relation to yourself
[78:22] , don't you?
[78:24] When you think about this, strictly
[78:26] speaking, you might gain a certain kind
[78:29] of lesson—which is why I say reflection
[78:31] is so important—and what lesson do you
[78:33] gain?
[78:34] That today, right now, is actually the
[78:36] best it’s going to get.
[78:38] Because things will only get worse than
[78:40] they are now, if we’re truly going to
[78:42] shatter some of those romantic illusions
[78:44] .
[78:45] It’s like when Shi Tiesheng wrote his "
[78:47] Fragments of Illness"—I read a lot of
[78:49] things back then because I had to
[78:51] sustain myself.
[78:54] Exactly. Then I read a passage by Shi
[78:56] Tiesheng where he said, "When I was in a
[78:59] wheelchair, I didn't feel like a person
[79:01] , because humans are meant to walk
[79:03] upright; how could I no longer walk?"
[79:06] He said, "But when I was lying in bed,
[79:08] even when I was bedridden and developed
[79:10] bedsores, I missed the time when I was
[79:12] in the wheelchair."
[79:14] That is, in the face of any disaster,
[79:16] you can always add the word "more"—it
[79:19] can always become a "greater disaster."
[79:21] That brings me to this guilt.
[79:23] For example, in the beginning of this
[79:26] process, I was completely overwhelmed
[79:28] because I would argue with them, as they
[79:30] were often, you know, just not being
[79:32] cooperative.
[79:33] You...
[79:34] >> Right.
[79:34] >> They go against you, or when you need to
[79:36] rest, they won't let you, and then you
[79:38] can't help it—you can't help but yell
[79:40] and shout at them, and afterwards, you
[79:42] feel so regretful.
[79:44] >> Right.
[79:44] >> And the most critical thing is, what
[79:46] happens in the end is that they stop
[79:48] calling out.
[79:49] >> They become quiet, and that's when you
[79:50] long for the days they would call out to
[79:52] you, even if it meant arguing with you
[79:54] all day. So, how could you not feel
[79:56] guilty?
[79:59] I think this guilt is a core, core issue
[80:01] , so, you shouldn't feel guilty;
[80:03] strictly speaking, just trust that you
[80:05] did your very best at the time and gave
[80:07] it your all.
[80:11] Some areas where you couldn't do more
[80:12] might have been due to objective reasons
[80:14] , or perhaps my own subjective
[80:15] understanding wasn't good enough back
[80:17] then.
[80:18] But now that I feel guilty looking back
[80:20] , it proves my subjective awareness has
[80:22] improved; otherwise, I wouldn't feel
[80:24] guilty.
[80:26] >> What you said really touches me.
[80:29] >> Because, perhaps for me, I truly
[80:31] witnessed the very end, for both my
[80:33] parents.
[80:35] And actually, strictly speaking, among
[80:37] all the children, it was me.
[80:40] It just so happened that I was present
[80:42] and witnessed both of their final
[80:44] moments completely, for instance, seeing
[80:46] them pass away. Exactly, that...
[80:48] >> Yes, yes, that, that...
[80:53] >> So, it's equivalent to the final layer,
[80:55] being there, so maybe as I said, "put
[80:58] yourself in their shoes," I might think
[81:00] more about how to live my own life well
[81:02] from now on.
[81:07] >> Because by living well, strictly
[81:09] speaking, you are sending a message that
[81:11] even though your parents are gone, you
[81:13] are still doing quite well.
[81:16] And they would also want you to be well
[81:17] ; it’s certainly something they would
[81:19] hope for you.
[81:21] Even including the fact that I spend so
[81:23] much energy now talking about elderly
[81:25] care, I feel it’s all driven by them.
[81:29] >> It’s a kind of strength or something
[81:31] I’ve gained from them, which I think is
[81:33] also quite important.
[81:35] Mm.
[81:38] Professor Hu, I'm curious, since you've
[81:39] gone through the whole caregiving
[81:41] process, do you have more experience or
[81:43] more advance preparation for your own
[81:45] aging than the rest of us?
[81:49] >> Because what Yijun just mentioned is
[81:51] actually quite consistent with my own
[81:53] thinking, so I’ll summarize everything
[81:55] in one word.
[81:57] I call it, eh...
[82:01] >> The significance of this reserve is
[82:03] twofold: first, if you exercise, it
[82:05] builds muscle memory.
[82:09] It’s actually the same principle; if I
[82:11] persist in practicing everything, I can
[82:14] form memory.
[82:17] Once memory is formed, then perhaps many
[82:19] times I won't even be conscious of it; I
[82:21] might just do it unconsciously, and then
[82:23] the second thing is, having provisions
[82:25] on hand...what do they call it?
[82:29] "A calm heart."
[82:30] >> Yes, you mentioned that just now, and I
[82:32] actually deeply relate to it, because
[82:34] you will inevitably face a day where
[82:36] someone has to wipe your bottom for you
[82:38] .
[82:39] >> Right, exactly. Yes, you will definitely
[82:42] face this.
[82:44] But if you have enough of this "reserve
[82:45] ," you might be able to accept someone
[82:47] cleaning you up.
[82:50] You’d just think, "Whatever, let them
[82:52] clean me," right?
[82:53] >> Exactly.
[82:55] I met an older gentleman who got sick
[82:56] and couldn't urinate.
[82:59] The doctors at the hospital said he
[83:01] needed surgery to insert a catheter, but
[83:03] he refused.
[83:04] Even when the doctors told him, "You
[83:06] can't just let yourself die from this,"
[83:08] he still insisted, "I won't do it." He
[83:10] thought it was torture. They told him, "
[83:12] What you're thinking of is outdated.
[83:14] That was years ago and might have been
[83:16] painful, but it's not that bad anymore.
[83:18] A small procedure would actually bring
[83:20] you relief." I completely agree with
[83:23] what you said about "cognitive reserve.
[83:24] "
[83:26] Sometimes our approach to aging is just
[83:27] like the seniors in the ICU you
[83:29] mentioned.
[83:30] When that day finally comes, they regret
[83:32] not doing this or that sooner. We
[83:34] shouldn't wait until we're lying there
[83:35] waiting for someone to clean us up
[83:37] before wishing we’d worked on our
[83:38] muscles or something else.
[83:40] >> It’s about the state you're in. Look at
[83:42] Ka-fai; he’s very concerned about his
[83:44] pride.
[83:45] I wonder, have you ever imagined what it
[83:48] would be like if you were bedridden for
[83:50] 10 or 20 years, unable to take care of
[83:52] yourself?
[83:53] >> In Hong Kong, people usually say that if
[83:55] you have "three nos"—no stroke, no
[83:57] Alzheimer's, no bedridden state—life is
[83:59] much better.
[84:02] I’ve heard many stories about the
[84:03] relationships between caregivers and the
[84:05] elderly.
[84:09] Of course, we sometimes see strange news
[84:11] stories, but they are often
[84:13] understandable.
[84:15] Like the billionaire who left 80%of his
[84:16] fortune to the person who took care of
[84:18] him during his final three years, which
[84:20] naturally led to disputes later on.
[84:22] There are also cases of mutual support.
[84:27] Since some caregivers are young and
[84:29] others are older, there's a sense of "
[84:31] helping each other out"—I'll take care
[84:32] of you today, hoping someone will take
[84:34] care of me later.
[84:39] There’s a kind of affection between them
[84:40] , but it’s not the same as the intimacy
[84:42] of a romantic relationship.
[84:46] I felt this deeply because about a month
[84:48] ago, I went to visit my mother.
[84:51] I’m quite fortunate.
[84:53] I have a foreign domestic helper, we
[84:55] call them household assistants, she's
[84:57] from the Philippines.
[85:00] She looked after me before and was so
[85:02] dedicated, so thoughtful and warm, and
[85:04] now she takes care of my mother.
[85:07] My mother was always afraid that her
[85:09] contract would end and she would have to
[85:10] go back to the Philippines.
[85:14] She told my mother in broken Cantonese,
[85:16] "Don't worry, I'll take care of you
[85:18] until the end."
[85:21] I’d only go back home then; she had a
[85:23] daughter, children of her own, back in
[85:25] the Philippines.
[85:29] >> A month ago, while chatting, she
[85:31] mentioned something I hadn’t known for
[85:33] two years—she suddenly talked about how
[85:35] I’d never seen my father cry, but then
[85:37] it happened—my father, before he passed
[85:39] , was in the hospital crying one day,
[85:41] and do you know why?
[85:45] He was just crying, feeling sad,
[85:47] worrying about my mother— "Oh, when I'm
[85:49] gone, what will happen to her?"
[85:52] He was opening up and crying in front of
[85:54] a migrant domestic worker, his home care
[85:56] assistant.
[85:59] He didn’t cry in front of my sister.
[86:01] He didn’t cry in front of me; he cried
[86:03] in front of that domestic assistant.
[86:06] "I can't bear to leave Mom, I'm worried
[86:08] about Mom," and so that assistant told
[86:10] my mother, "Don't worry, I promised him
[86:12] I would see you through until the end."
[86:16] Only then would she go back home, back
[86:17] to the Philippines, so I’m reflecting on
[86:19] that relationship between the elderly
[86:21] and their caregivers.
[86:23] There are so many stories; what you’re
[86:25] saying is so important.
[86:29] That’s why I mention Professor Wu
[86:31] Xingyue; when he was studying nursing
[86:33] homes, he mentioned an old person told
[86:35] him something—I realized my father said
[86:37] the same thing—though social science
[86:39] researchers usually disregard it, it’s a
[86:41] universal sentiment: the caregiver must
[86:43] have a heart full of love.
[86:48] >> Mm.
[86:50] >> But we all know how can you demand that
[86:51] ?
[86:52] It’s a job, yet that is exactly how it
[86:55] is.
[86:57] That’s why I say that professional, good
[87:00] doctors, nurses, or caregivers—I truly
[87:02] think they are so great, even greater
[87:05] than our own profession.
[87:08] But this is also the hardest thing to
[87:10] put into words. How can you demand that
[87:12] from someone who is neither kin nor
[87:13] relative? Yet, in reality, when people
[87:15] reach that final stage, for example—I
[87:17] sometimes think like Mencius said, when
[87:19] you see a child falling into a well, you
[87:22] naturally have the heart to save them.
[87:24] This is something shared by all of
[87:25] humanity, isn't it? It's something in
[87:27] our nature. I just thought, oh, I’ll
[87:29] help promote your book. I was thinking
[87:32] that day at his book event, he talked
[87:33] about Zhang Dachun.
[87:35] >> He talked about his book, and there was
[87:37] one point that really moved me, though I
[87:39] didn't say it at the time.
[87:42] It was that in his book, in his novel,
[87:44] he wrote that people actually have a
[87:46] choice.
[87:49] You can choose to be a human or not.
[87:52] >> Like a good person,
[87:53] >> a good person or a bad person.
[87:55] >> The other day, I was with a philosopher
[87:57] from the Academy of Social Sciences
[87:59] named Zhao Yang. He had an inspiring
[88:01] point, which I actually traced back to
[88:03] Confucius. That is, have you noticed
[88:05] this negative term?
[88:08] Only humans, among all animals, can say
[88:10] , "I don't have to be like this."
[88:14] "On this matter, I can yield to you."
[88:16] This is what they call true human
[88:18] freedom.
[88:19] Human freedom.
[88:21] Don't we all want freedom?
[88:23] Where is this freedom manifested?
[88:25] Freedom is manifested, as Confucius said
[88:28] , "If I desire to be virtuous, then
[88:30] virtue will arrive."
[88:32] >> Right.
[88:33] >> What do these words mean?
[88:35] Confucius meant that practicing
[88:37] benevolence depends on oneself, not
[88:39] others.
[88:40] It means being a good person is my own
[88:42] freedom. You cannot decide this. This is
[88:44] the only thing, for example, "wealth and
[88:46] rank cannot corrupt, force and power
[88:48] cannot subdue." This is something I can
[88:50] decide for myself. No, just now I said I
[88:52] was very pessimistic about human nature
[88:54] , but actually, you see, there is also
[88:56] this side to human nature. Why did I say
[88:58] before that I love to cry when watching
[89:00] movies? They say I even cry watching
[89:02] Transformers, which is true. I also cry
[89:04] watching Batman, but what kind of scenes
[89:07] make me cry? I remember one time, Batman
[89:09] said to the villain as a good person
[89:11] sacrificed himself, "You have a choice.
[89:13] "
[89:14] >> Hmm.
[89:15] "
[89:15] >> And you can always choose to be a good
[89:17] person," and then he died.
[89:19] Why do I well up with tears at that
[89:21] moment? It's just as Confucius said, "
[89:23] If I desire to be virtuous, then virtue
[89:26] will arrive."
[89:27] And this is actually the easiest thing
[89:29] to do.
[89:30] Why? If I want money, you might not give
[89:32] it to me, right? If I desire beauty, I
[89:35] might not necessarily have it.
[89:37] >> But many times, what you think is hard
[89:39] is actually the easiest.
[89:42] If I want to be a bit kinder to the
[89:44] elderly.
[89:45] If I want to take better care of the
[89:47] elderly, this is something you can do
[89:48] immediately.
[89:50] It’s freer than wanting anything else.
[89:52] It is just as Confucius said, "I want to
[89:55] be good" is actually the easiest.
[89:58] You can't just think of money and get it
[90:00] , but I can say a good word for Jiahui's
[90:02] book, which I can do at no cost.
[90:05] Just say a couple more words.
[90:07] >> This is also what Wang Yangming called "
[90:09] innate knowledge." It resides in
[90:10] everyone's heart.
[90:12] I recently watched a show, I'm just like
[90:14] you, I always watch dramas.
[90:17] The beginning is really just about how
[90:19] things were at a middle school, with
[90:20] different teachers having different
[90:22] styles, recreating that 70s or 80s vibe
[90:24] where teachers might even hit students.
[90:26] But there’s this one plot point where a
[90:28] wealthy guy suddenly comes into the
[90:30] classroom saying his son lost something
[90:32] . He was wearing gold chains, looking
[90:33] very flashy, and insisted on searching
[90:35] their backpacks. The teacher just said
[90:37] one thing, telling them to let him look
[90:39] through it himself, and if it wasn’t
[90:40] there, he should just leave. He said, "
[90:42] I have to protect these children."
[90:45] Then all the kids—the voice-over said
[90:46] that he might have forgotten what he
[90:48] learned back then or any of the
[90:49] knowledge he was taught, but he
[90:51] remembered that day when a teacher
[90:52] protected them.
[90:54] At that moment, I just felt that,
[90:56] honestly, what we call education, in the
[90:58] end, is really about awakening the
[91:00] conscience. You're saying...
[91:01] >> It seems this conscience really does
[91:03] exist.
[91:03] >> Yes, and once you mention it, it can
[91:05] instantly awaken. But after it's
[91:07] awakened, I’m thinking about another
[91:09] issue.
[91:11] If we pull ourselves back from this
[91:13] ideal state to reality, we often face a
[91:15] problem—that person might be a "bad
[91:17] person."
[91:20] A so-called bad person doesn't
[91:22] necessarily mean a criminal; they might
[91:24] be a father or mother who, when I was a
[91:26] child, I felt didn't treat me very well
[91:28] .
[91:30] If you look back and think, "Oh, I must
[91:31] have done something wrong."
[91:33] Sometimes, some people might also think
[91:35] .
[91:36] They didn't treat me right either.
[91:39] When I needed love and care as a child,
[91:41] they weren't there; they went off to
[91:43] play mahjong.
[91:45] When I needed a harmonious family as a
[91:47] child, it wasn't there; they fought with
[91:49] my mother, and I’ve even seen their—I
[91:51] won't say me, I'll say I've even seen
[91:53] their father.
[91:55] Give me a light, saint!
[91:57] I’ve seen them act a mess.
[91:59] Now they are old and need care, which
[92:01] brings up a test of conscience and
[92:03] judgment.
[92:04] It’s not just conscience; as Kant said,
[92:06] you need judgment.
[92:08] Having a conscience isn't enough, you
[92:10] need judgment, and that’s hard to define
[92:12] —it depends on your personality and your
[92:14] values regarding elders.
[92:17] >> All these old grudges and grievances—
[92:18] can you honestly say you’ve never
[92:20] thought about the ways your mother
[92:21] didn't treat you well? Did your dad not
[92:23] treat you well?
[92:25] >> How do you exercise judgment then?
[92:27] That is the real test of your conscience
[92:29] , a test of your humanity—what you can
[92:31] do and what you can't. So, it really
[92:34] isn't easy.
[92:35] >> As for human nature, if it goes to the
[92:38] extreme, there are certainly many
[92:40] terrible things, but generally speaking
[92:42] , if we don't discuss that, or if we
[92:44] don't discuss great benevolence, because
[92:46] great benevolence is also rare. Both
[92:49] great evil and great benevolence are
[92:51] rare. Let's just discuss the basics. I
[92:53] want to follow up on what Jia said
[92:55] earlier: I truly believe that even if
[92:57] your parents didn't treat you well, you
[92:59] still have to take care of them.
[93:02] At this moment, it's not about
[93:03] calculating past love or hatred, but
[93:05] there is definitely an ethical issue
[93:07] involved here.
[93:09] There is a matter of responsibility.
[93:12] And you have to realize what?
[93:14] In a sense, it's actually unfair to your
[93:17] parents.
[93:18] Why? Because when you needed care as a
[93:20] child, you don't remember anything
[93:22] before the age of three, even though
[93:24] that was when you needed care the most.
[93:26] >> Right, that's about the same as dementia
[93:28] .
[93:28] >> It's about the same, it's about the same
[93:30] . All the things they invested in you
[93:32] back then, you actually have no feeling
[93:33] for them at all. In the end, you slowly
[93:35] , perhaps by the time you reach puberty
[93:37] , have conflicts with your parents. When
[93:40] you clash, you feel like they are your
[93:41] enemies.
[93:42] >> Yes.
[93:44] >> But in fact, during that period from
[93:46] your childhood to puberty, your parents
[93:48] had to sacrifice to raise you well.
[93:53] Of course, I'm speaking in general; I
[93:55] believe there are always exceptions.
[93:59] So what you will discover is...I just
[94:01] find various resources to support myself
[94:03] . For example, I read Zhuangzi, because
[94:06] Zhuangzi discusses the big perspective
[94:08] on life and death.
[94:09] >> Oh, you relied on Zhuangzi to get
[94:11] through it back then.
[94:12] >> Not just Zhuangzi, I also read Heidegger
[94:14] , because Heidegger was always talking
[94:15] about being-toward-death.
[94:16] >> Yes, exactly, and Shi Tiesheng, finding
[94:19] a bunch of books as if taking medicine—
[94:21] reading Zhuangzi today.
[94:23] >> Really.
[94:26] >> But actually, the one I believe in the
[94:28] most is Levinas.
[94:32] >> Oh.
[94:33] >> Levinas was a student of Heidegger, but
[94:35] Levinas advocated what is called
[94:37] phenomenological ethics.
[94:38] >> Hmm.
[94:40] >> What did he say?
[94:44] He used simple terms to say that the
[94:46] face of the "Other" is what evokes your
[94:48] desire to help them.
[94:53] >> The face of the Other?
[94:54] >> Exactly, when people see a human face,
[94:56] they have empathy. Is that what it means
[94:58] ?
[94:58] >> Not quite, but...
[94:59] >> What if you see a person and don't feel
[95:01] that way, but just want to hit them?
[95:03] >> No, just a simple example: that little
[95:05] girl from Project Hope.
[95:06] >> Oh, the "Big Eyes" girl.
[95:08] >> The "big eyes" thing isn't some folklore
[95:10] ; this is Levinas.
[95:11] >> It's just to make this concept easier to
[95:13] understand.
[95:14] >> Right, right, right.
[95:16] Yes, his core point is that in life, one
[95:19] cannot be self-centered; one must be
[95:21] centered on others.
[95:24] So when others need your care, he calls
[95:27] that a "summons."
[95:29] >> Mm.
[95:30] >> A summons; you are essentially called
[95:32] over.
[95:33] Strictly speaking, he feels you have no
[95:35] choice because you are being summoned.
[95:37] >> Mm.
[95:39] >> But at the same time, he says something
[95:41] very interesting: whenever you provide
[95:43] care, you are always late.
[95:47] It is impossible to arrive exactly when
[95:49] they need you.
[95:51] Because between their summons and your
[95:53] arrival, there is a
[95:54] >> time lag.
[95:55] >> There is a time gap, so you are always a
[95:57] latecomer.
[95:57] >> Always one step behind.
[95:59] >> Always one step behind, so I think this
[96:01] partially explains why you always feel
[96:02] guilty. Because you can never catch up
[96:04] with
[96:04] >> their needs.
[96:05] >> Their needs, exactly. Why I say he had a
[96:08] great impact on me, it helped me realize
[96:10] a principle, which is actually quite
[96:12] simple when you break it down.
[96:15] It's that the person you are caring for
[96:16] is in more pain than you are.
[96:20] >> Mm, many people disagree when I say this
[96:22] , thinking, "Why should that be?"
[96:24] For instance, people might say an
[96:26] Alzheimer's patient doesn't feel pain.
[96:29] I don't think that's true; regardless of
[96:31] their illness.
[96:32] The one you care for is always in more
[96:34] pain than you; once you think it through
[96:36] , you'll realize something.
[96:39] You should put their needs before or
[96:41] above your own.
[96:43] I'm not saying everyone can do this, but
[96:45] I think you can strive in that direction
[96:47] .
[96:48] Because that is "aiming for the highest
[96:50] ."
[96:51] >> Mm.
[96:51] >> If you have this intention, even if you
[96:53] don't do it perfectly, you've still made
[96:55] the effort. But if you lack this
[96:56] intention, it’s a completely different
[96:58] story, or you might think you are always
[97:00] in more pain than them, like, "I'm the
[97:02] one working, I'm the one earning money.
[97:03] "
[97:04] Ah, you see, Professor Hu, this is one
[97:07] way to settle the accounts between
[97:09] people.
[97:10] >> Oh, I'm humbled; I mean the stage when
[97:12] you were three or losing your memory.
[97:15] The stage when you couldn't be
[97:17] responsible for your own actions; in
[97:19] most cases, your parents tolerated you.
[97:22] So, this ethical account, can you do the
[97:25] same for them one day?
[97:28] Including the "face of the other," I
[97:30] think this is a bit like "universal love
[97:33] " or this kind of profound compassion.
[97:37] >> You look at their face and feel nothing
[97:39] , but the moment they need you, like if
[97:41] they need a blood transfusion, you’d
[97:43] rush over.
[97:45] It’s because they have that need, and if
[97:47] , for instance, they were just…
[97:49] >> Lying there.
[97:49] >> Right, when they’re lying there and need
[97:51] you, you’d definitely go immediately.
[97:53] >> I’m not so sure. If you published a book
[97:55] , I’d fly over, let alone if you were
[97:57] lying in bed.
[98:00] >> He might come over and say let’s film
[98:02] one last show.
[98:03] >> Right, right, right, got to post it on
[98:06] Xiaohongshu.
[98:07] >> Exactly, drumming up traffic isn't easy
[98:09] .
[98:11] Professor Hu, I’ve realized we need a
[98:13] few copies of Zhuangzi at home, and who
[98:16] else?
[98:18] >> Flip through it when you’re angry at
[98:20] your mother.
[98:22] >> Right, you can’t just read Freud.
[98:25] I want to say, your, well, you already
[98:27] have a big temper, right.
[98:30] >> I really think Professor Hu is right,
[98:32] the call of another's face—there are
[98:34] actually many people who need us.
[98:40] Look, a while ago, I kept feeling that
[98:42] this current self-media, this algorithm
[98:45] of theirs, sometimes fosters a kind of
[98:47] value system that’s almost like a
[98:49] consumerist one.
[98:53] The other day I told them, I said
[98:55] everywhere you look people are talking
[98:57] about "being yourself."
[98:58] >> Mm.
[98:58] >> Like, don't worry about others. You need
[99:01] to boldly be yourself, saying things
[99:02] like...
[99:03] >> Love yourself always.
[99:04] >> Right, love yourself, right.
[99:07] Actually...I later thought, people are
[99:10] really already selfish enough.
[99:12] Seriously, you don't need to teach
[99:15] selfishness. You know, you know why
[99:17] self-media says that?
[99:19] For example, if I tell Hui, "Hui, your
[99:21] shortcoming is that you're too selfish
[99:23] and don't consider others," he
[99:25] definitely wouldn't want to hear that.
[99:28] But if I say, "Hui, my biggest issue
[99:31] with you is that you don't cherish
[99:32] yourself enough."
[99:34] "
[99:34] >> You're always thinking about others,"
[99:36] he'd definitely love to hear that.
[99:38] >> You know? The self-media algorithm. But
[99:40] this kind of talk makes everyone feel
[99:42] like, "I've already been so wronged."
[99:45] But, but this kind of thing, I really
[99:47] think it’s indulgent.
[99:49] In reality, many people, including even
[99:52] our own parents compared to us, are
[99:54] actually the vulnerable ones.
[99:57] When I think about my regrets toward my
[99:59] parents, honestly, it’s because my own
[100:02] life has been too flashy and extravagant
[100:04] .
[100:05] Living too intensely. Just think about
[100:08] it: whether you want to call them,
[100:10] whether you want to go back and visit,
[100:12] or where you want to go for fun—we
[100:13] actually prioritize our own lives too
[100:15] much, right?
[100:16] >> In reality, we really haven't thought
[100:18] much about them. For me, in my own
[100:20] personal case, I really feel I haven't
[100:22] done enough.
[100:24] It’s precisely because I've focused too
[100:26] much on my own life, but in reality,
[100:28] between people, you can't forget others
[100:30] , because you will face that day
[100:32] yourself.
[100:34] >> I want to share a true story, though
[100:36] it’s a bit sad. Everyone knows that
[100:37] human empathy was apparently discovered
[100:39] because of a certain bone that was...
[100:41] what did he say?
[100:42] >> Oh, it was what he said.
[100:43] >> An anthropologist said it.
[100:45] >> OK, he said they discovered a bone that
[100:47] had healed.
[100:49] >> Later on, something happened that day. I
[100:51] had actually been to a museum and seen
[100:53] some bones, and then the next day I went
[100:55] to record a show.
[100:56] >> There were several teachers there, and
[100:58] one of them was quite elderly.
[101:00] Then, while walking on stage, he took a
[101:02] fall.
[101:03] After he suddenly fell, his leg was a
[101:05] bit...it wasn't as serious as a fracture
[101:08] , but a huge group of people rushed up
[101:10] to help, and I thought, "Oh my, the
[101:12] goodness of humanity."
[101:13] But then people said, "Keep recording!"
[101:16] It’s like humans helping their own kind
[101:18] just to squeeze out the last bit of
[101:20] their value.
[101:22] >> There’s no other way.
[101:24] No, just like Wentao mentioned the weak
[101:26] —they are weaker than me.
[101:33] So you can talk about ethics or whether
[101:34] you treat me well or not, but when it
[101:36] comes to conscience or heart, it’s just
[101:38] saying that when you see someone weaker
[101:40] than you, you just do what you can.
[101:46] But it’s never enough.
[101:49] I hear Teacher Hu has done so well, and
[101:51] you said even you get tired sometimes.
[101:54] Honestly, hearing that makes me feel
[101:56] less tired.
[101:58] If even someone like you gets exhausted
[102:00] , what right do I have to be tired?
[102:03] Just do what you can.
[102:05] It will always be like that, and you did
[102:07] say it's a lifelong struggle.
[102:11] >> I think Yijun comforted me by saying
[102:13] that, as a child to your parents, some
[102:15] debts just remain debts.
[102:18] Sometimes that’s just how it is.
[102:21] However, from you, I feel like you
[102:23] project from your parents onto yourself
[102:25] .
[102:27] Whenever I think of my parents, I always
[102:29] feel they were shortchanged—I don't even
[102:31] know what this "shortchanged" really
[102:34] means.
[102:35] >> They must be so proud of you.
[102:36] >> No, I just feel their lives were so
[102:38] bitter. They raised three sons from
[102:40] childhood, struggling to make ends meet
[102:42] . Whenever they had food, they wouldn't
[102:44] eat it themselves; they’d give it to the
[102:46] children. They had no enjoyment their
[102:48] whole lives.
[102:49] >> I remember a long time ago, wow, seven
[102:51] or eight years ago, one time we were
[102:53] recording a show.
[102:56] I forget what the topic was, but Wentao
[102:58] said something that left a deep
[102:59] impression on me.
[103:03] He basically said that he couldn't stand
[103:05] it—he couldn't drink orange juice while
[103:06] watching his parents drink plain water.
[103:11] I was truly moved at the time, seeing
[103:13] how much he cared for his parents.
[103:18] After the shoot, I went home and thought
[103:20] , if your parents saw this recording, I
[103:22] think even if you kept serving them
[103:24] plain water, they’d still feel happy and
[103:26] satisfied.
[103:30] They'd think, "Oh look, our son keeps
[103:32] giving us water, but he still cares
[103:33] enough to talk about us; he has us on
[103:35] his mind."
[103:38] >> Conversely, if you gave them orange
[103:39] juice, they might just set it aside;
[103:41] they wouldn't really drink it, they
[103:43] wouldn't use it.
[103:44] >> In the end, what you call an inheritance
[103:46] is actually just money I’ve given them
[103:48] over the years, and they won't even
[103:49] spend it.
[103:50] >> They just keep saving it, so what are
[103:51] you supposed to do about that?
[103:53] >> But that’s no longer your problem; it’s
[103:55] about the era and mindset. Maybe the
[103:56] younger generation doesn’t think that
[103:58] way, but the older generation certainly
[104:00] does. They actually lived very happy
[104:02] lives.
[104:03] Now, I sometimes think about my own
[104:05] children, how I pour so much energy into
[104:07] them, and it’s exhausting.
[104:10] For instance, I wonder, do I expect them
[104:12] to pay me back?
[104:14] No. In this relationship, when I get old
[104:16] , I won’t receive anything, nor do I
[104:18] expect to receive anything, so why do I
[104:20] put in all this effort? I just can’t
[104:22] figure that part out. Why do I bother
[104:24] giving so much? I've thought about it
[104:25] for a long time. For example, if someone
[104:27] asks me now, "What's the point of having
[104:28] kids? Is it good or bad?" I honestly
[104:30] can't think of a single reason. If you
[104:32] ask me, "Do you love your children?"
[104:34] I’d say, in a general sense, I feel that
[104:37] human relationships can be maintained by
[104:39] oneself.
[104:41] Or perhaps you don’t need to think about
[104:43] the next generation, but if you ask me
[104:45] if I love these two specific individuals
[104:47] , I’d say I love them dearly.
[104:50] You give them everything, and you don’t
[104:52] want to ask for anything in return—
[104:54] truly, you don’t.
[104:56] Maybe it's because I'm getting older.
[104:57] >> Watching your child eat is sweeter than
[104:59] tasting the food yourself.
[105:00] >> Well, that’s not necessarily true.
[105:02] >> See, you’ve already changed.
[105:04] >> Right, this generation has changed, and
[105:06] I have to eat too.
[105:07] >> I have to eat too, right? I have to be
[105:09] myself too, don't I? But, maybe from far
[105:11] away, you give me a call or something,
[105:13] just having that connection, I already
[105:15] feel great.
[105:16] I don't need to count on them to wait on
[105:18] me hand and foot, you don't need to
[105:19] think about that.
[105:21] But, let me tell you, you know sometimes
[105:23] giving is true happiness. Really, they
[105:25] gave for you, they gave for you three
[105:27] brothers.
[105:28] They took care of you, raised such a
[105:30] great child like you, they already feel
[105:32] this life has been very happy.
[105:35] Happy...you saying this reminds me of
[105:37] their generation.
[105:38] Take Qian Liqun and his wife, they're
[105:41] very famous.
[105:42] I discovered he entered a phase of
[105:44] reflection.
[105:45] He said after they reached this age,
[105:47] they sold their house, sold it and moved
[105:49] here.
[105:51] He said, what stage did he enter?
[105:53] I think he realized the tragedy of his
[105:55] youth and prime years.
[105:57] >> Uh-huh.
[105:59] >> He said our generation, from childhood
[106:01] we fought against heaven and earth.
[106:04] He felt his youth was lived not like
[106:06] himself at all.
[106:08] He said in old age, you shed all your
[106:10] titles.
[106:11] Whatever official or professor you were
[106:14] outside, it's all gone.
[106:16] He said, instead, he advocates for a
[106:18] life where you can be yourself again. He
[106:21] even advocates returning to innocence.
[106:23] I'm old now, what else do I care about?
[106:26] So I want to find my true childhood
[106:28] again.
[106:30] You see, our whole lives, we lived for
[106:33] others.
[106:34] For what? The only thing he rarely did
[106:36] was look inward at himself, at my own
[106:38] life. So, like he said, his wife was in
[106:41] the late stages of cancer.
[106:44] I really admire her.
[106:47] Knowing her time was running out, she
[106:48] wanted to find meaning in her life.
[106:52] She wanted to sing in this nursing home
[106:54] .
[106:55] She loved singing.
[106:57] >> She held a concert.
[107:00] >> Wait, let me go see Mr. Qian.
[107:03] >> A bit...look, look, he said she endured
[107:05] the pain, with an IV drip, and behind
[107:07] her was a QR code you could scan to hear
[107:09] her songs.
[107:11] Really?
[107:12] >> Yes, he said at that time she actually
[107:15] needed an IV, enduring agonizing
[107:17] physical pain, but she wanted to sing
[107:19] the final song of her life for her
[107:21] fellow seniors.
[107:23] He said this is, this is what it means
[107:25] to create meaning in old age.
[107:28] I was thinking, I feel like these people
[107:30] are somewhat heroic.
[107:32] I myself might not have any interest in
[107:34] doing that.
[107:36] >> Uh, I think you can see that in the end
[107:38] , they are celebrating this life force.
[107:41] You can feel it. For example, I see many
[107:43] parents today who demand their children
[107:45] be top of the class and get into
[107:47] prestigious schools. Sometimes I think,
[107:49] well, of course, that’s understandable
[107:51] and natural. To strive to be the best.
[107:54] But a question always pops into my mind
[107:56] : okay, if you do that, if you spend
[107:58] your first 20 years fighting to be
[108:00] number one, there’s still another 100 or
[108:03] 130 years to go.
[108:04] You can't be number one forever, right?
[108:07] If the track of life is so long, then
[108:08] that final vitality in old age, that
[108:10] thing you mentioned...
[108:12] >> What will it be like? Have you ever
[108:13] thought about what your final state
[108:15] might be?
[108:17] >> Well, I speculate, I don’t know if my
[108:19] mind will still be clear then, but it’s
[108:21] somewhat close to what was said before.
[108:23] I just feel that from birth to death,
[108:25] from start to finish, it’s a phenomenon
[108:28] one can be curious about.
[108:29] In fact, we’ve always been—I feel like
[108:32] we’ve always been like a live broadcast
[108:34] .
[108:35] For example, right now as we talk, I’m
[108:37] experiencing it, undistracted, perhaps
[108:40] you’re noticing it, noticing it as it
[108:42] happens.
[108:44] He even said that when it comes to that
[108:46] final moment, I also want to know what
[108:48] it’s like—how my physiology, my
[108:50] psychology, and my spirit will end step
[108:53] by step.
[108:54] I want to keep this experience, this
[108:57] very experience, right up to the last
[108:59] breath of life.
[109:00] >> Curiosity.
[109:01] >> Right, right, but I think it definitely
[109:03] can’t be too painful. If it’s too
[109:05] painful, I’m afraid you won’t be able to
[109:07] pay attention. In reality, many of the
[109:09] awkward situations I’ve seen are muddled
[109:11] or excruciatingly painful, where you
[109:12] just can’t focus anymore. Do you
[109:14] currently avoid thinking about your own
[109:16] end?
[109:16] >> I don’t really anymore, because, well,
[109:18] I’ve been through those things.
[109:20] >> So your point is that we should accept
[109:22] it.
[109:23] Because haven't I often been pondering
[109:25] the matter of artificial intelligence?
[109:30] >> This AI, many people have ideas about
[109:32] things like digital immortality and so
[109:35] on.
[109:36] >> It’s a fantasy—or maybe not even a
[109:38] fantasy, since many people are actually
[109:40] driving it forward. Or things like
[109:42] consciousness uploading, which refers to
[109:44] working on the brain. As for working on
[109:46] the body, take that boss of the Silicon
[109:49] Valley company, for example; he spends a
[109:51] lot of money trying to stop aging. If he
[109:53] needs a blood transfusion, he gets one.
[109:56] Well, anyway, he has the money. Right.
[109:59] >> He said he finds the fact that people
[110:01] die unacceptable, asking why must people
[110:03] die?
[110:05] It’s because he earned too much money,
[110:07] so he can be like that.
[110:09] But I wonder, why seek immortality?
[110:12] What is the point of being immortal?
[110:15] Why bother with immortality?
[110:18] Can you tell me what the benefits of
[110:20] immortality are? Hmm.
[110:25] Always having new discoveries—I don't
[110:27] have that like you do, up until now I
[110:29] feel like life...
[110:31] >> Oh, there are so many places I haven't
[110:33] been, always things to see; I really
[110:36] love being alive.
[110:37] >> But you love being alive because you
[110:39] have to die.
[110:41] >> Is that right, Jia-hui?
[110:42] >> Exactly.
[110:44] That curiosity—it immediately reminds me
[110:47] of my professor back in the U.S. during
[110:49] my PhD, a socialist, the last socialist
[110:51] in America.
[110:55] After he passed, his family and students
[110:57] organized his notes and interviews, and
[110:59] in one, he said, "I don't want to die."
[111:03] Or, I forget his exact wording, but it
[111:05] was, "I want to keep living a little
[111:07] longer." Why? To see two or three things
[111:09] .
[111:11] First, to see his descendants—his
[111:12] granddaughter, his cute granddaughter—
[111:15] whether she grows up to be happy.
[111:18] >> Or whether she follows his teachings and
[111:20] moves in a good direction.
[111:24] Then the second thing is wanting to see
[111:26] where the future of human technology
[111:28] will lead.
[111:31] This is a huge question mark in my mind
[111:33] .
[111:35] AI is evolving in phases every three
[111:37] months.
[111:39] Where will it actually end up?
[111:41] That's the second question mark.
[111:44] The third is wanting to see what stage
[111:46] the socialism he pursued his whole life
[111:48] would reach.
[111:50] So, not wanting to die isn't necessarily
[111:52] for one's own sake—to keep eating,
[111:54] drinking, and having fun.
[111:58] >> It might truly be living on for the sake
[112:00] of humanity's future.
[112:02] >> Desire for knowledge.
[112:03] >> What about you, Yi-jun?
[112:05] >> What did you say? Since I'm the last one
[112:07] ...
[112:07] >> Regarding this, do you wish for eternal
[112:09] life?
[112:10] >> I think if there were eternal life, it
[112:12] would completely change your definition
[112:13] of living.
[112:15] It definitely would.
[112:16] I saw a movie once—it was fantasy—about
[112:19] a biblical figure living among us.
[112:22] During a conversation, they discover
[112:24] this person is immortal.
[112:26] >> Oh, I know that movie.
[112:28] >> But this person, how did he live? He had
[112:30] to move every ten years because he
[112:32] wouldn't age, but the people around him
[112:34] did, and then they passed away. Since he
[112:36] didn't age, he kept moving. In the end,
[112:39] he found such a life very boring. He
[112:41] wanted to die.
[112:42] >> It's sad, very sad.
[112:44] Because your reference points are all
[112:46] withering away while you remain immortal
[112:48] .
[112:49] So...
[112:50] >> There was that Australian biologist over
[112:53] 100 years old who eventually chose to go
[112:55] to Switzerland for assisted suicide.
[112:58] He said that even though his body was
[113:00] still okay...He said there was no one
[113:02] left that he knew.
[113:04] >> Right.
[113:05] >> Not a single person he knew left.
[113:07] His life had completely lost its joy.
[113:10] There was no human connection left.
[113:12] >> Without connections, you see, perhaps
[113:14] people only achieve immortality through
[113:16] connection.
[113:17] >> Right, I think we still have to die,
[113:19] because death gives everything meaning.
[113:21] >> I’ll just stick with what Confucius said
[113:23] : nothing is absolute.
[113:25] >> Coincidence.
[113:27] >> If you guys figure out how to keep us
[113:29] from aging, I’d be curious to live
[113:31] forever, but if it’s my time to go,
[113:33] that’s fine too.
[113:34] I feel I have one more reason now: I can
[113:36] reunite with my parents. No, what is the
[113:39] key point for you? You can’t just have
[113:41] the desire not to die; you also have to
[113:43] desire not to get sick and not to age,
[113:44] most of all.
[113:45] >> Wasn't that mentioned in Greek mythology
[113:47] ?
[113:48] He only asked for immortality and forgot
[113:50] to ask not to age, so he became a
[113:52] decrepit old man that everyone despised
[113:54] .
[113:55] Being immortal only made it worse.
[113:57] Exactly. If you have to have someone
[113:59] manage your bodily functions your whole
[114:00] life and you live forever, what kind of
[114:02] life is that?
[114:03] >> Be careful, Wentao.
[114:05] You just said that if you die, at least
[114:07] you can reunite with your parents.
[114:10] From one perspective, what if your
[114:11] parents were reincarnated as babies to
[114:13] find you, but you were already gone?
[114:16] They’d be looking for you, Wentao, and
[114:18] you wouldn't be there.
[114:19] >> Don’t just talk about me; you should be
[114:20] careful with your concert too.
[114:22] >> Oh, right, that’s true, thank you.
[114:24] >> Okay, thank you, thank you. Thank you,
[114:26] thank you, thank you, as long as we're
[114:28] happy.
[114:29] >> Right, as long as we're happy.
[114:30] >> As long as we're happy, as long as we're
