Bay 12 Pushes Dwarf Fortress to Steam to Survive US Healthcare Costs

Dwarf Fortress Creator Explains its Complexity & Origins | Noclip Interview — /noclip

/noclip

Rising prescription expenses and a cancer scare forced Bay 12 Games to end 16 years of free development and launch a commercial Steam edition to survive the American healthcare system.

AI-assisted summary of Dwarf Fortress Creator Explains its Complexity & Origins | Noclip Interview — original source. Check the original for full context.

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Key ideas

  • Bay 12 Games pursued a paid Steam release with pixel graphics and sound primarily to build a financial safety net against catastrophic American healthcare costs following a cancer scare and ongoing prescription expenses. (20:10)
  • By relying on low-fidelity ASCII text over expensive 3D asset pipelines, Dwarf Fortress enables rapid modular implementation of systemic rules and emergent narrative mechanics that have expanded continuously for over 16 years. (3:16)
  • To solve complex espionage and intrigue without exploding memory overhead, the engine tracks plots subjectively inside individual character minds rather than relying on a global ledger, naturally simulating partial information and deceit. (12:42)
  • Bay 12 Games maintains full development parity between versions, ensuring the traditional ASCII release remains entirely free alongside the commercial Steam launch. (20:10)

Detailed notes

## Background Published on YouTube by Noclip on June 9, 2020, this documentary interview is hosted and edited by Danny O'Dwyer. According to the video description, the feature chats with Bay 12 Games co-founder Tarn Adams about the origins, inner workings, and complexity of their legendary ASCII simulation Dwarf Fortress, as well as their plans for a commercial Steam release with footage courtesy of community animator Kruggsmash.

## TL;DR Tarn Adams recounts the decades-long evolution of Dwarf Fortress alongside his brother Zach, explaining how dispensing with high-fidelity graphics enabled an intricate web of modular, emergent simulation systems. Through hilarious technical mishaps like alcohol-poisoned tavern cats and lifelong euphoric dwarves, Adams illustrates how independent mechanics collide to create rich procedural storytelling and precarious psychological 'tantrum spirals.' The discussion explores the divide between the hands-on players who act like quality assurance testers and the vast audience who enjoys community chronicles, such as Kruggsmash's battle with an undead hydra. Finally, Adams addresses the real-world healthcare costs and medical scares that prompted the upcoming commercial Steam release, while reaffirming that his fascination with encoding global history and human psychology remains inexhaustible.

## Atmosphere & style The interview has an intellectually curious, warm, and candid atmosphere that oscillates effortlessly between nerdy technical comedy and sobering real-world vulnerability. Danny O'Dwyer's relaxed, conversational rapport allows Adams to delight in the comedic absurdity of cascading systemic bugs—such as engineering feline eyelids and fluid dynamics—before gently transitioning into the financial anxieties of American health insurance. Complemented by Kruggsmash's evocative storytelling footage, the piece feels like an affectionate, reverent portrait of an obsessive lifelong craft driven by pure curiosity.

## Bulletin - [20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1210s) Bay 12 Games pursued a paid Steam release with pixel graphics and sound primarily to build a financial safety net against catastrophic American healthcare costs following a cancer scare and ongoing prescription expenses. - [03:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=196s) By relying on low-fidelity ASCII text over expensive 3D asset pipelines, Dwarf Fortress enables rapid modular implementation of systemic rules and emergent narrative mechanics that have expanded continuously for over 16 years. - [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) To solve complex espionage and intrigue without exploding memory overhead, the engine tracks plots subjectively inside individual character minds rather than relying on a global ledger, naturally simulating partial information and deceit. - [20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1210s) Bay 12 Games maintains full development parity between versions, ensuring the traditional ASCII release remains entirely free alongside the commercial Steam launch.

## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=0s) Modular systems frequently collide in unexpected ways, illustrated by a bug where eyelid anatomy, fluid physics, and ingested poisons combined to cause cats to die of alcohol poisoning from grooming spilled beer. - [03:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=196s) ASCII presentation removes visual production bottlenecks, allowing two developers to integrate complex systemic concepts that high-fidelity studios cannot afford to model. - [04:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=288s) Dwarf Fortress grew out of earlier ambitious projects like Slaves to Armok and Mutant Miner, shifting from an unwieldy 3D engine to a fast-iterating ASCII roguelike management loop. - [09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) World generation simulates hundreds of years of procedural history before gameplay begins, retaining characters, physical battle damage, and site history across persistent fortresses and Adventure mode. - [09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) Emergent narrative relies on human cognition acting as a story-building engine, assembling meaningful drama from interconnected, unscripted simulation data points. - [11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=675s) Combat granularity eliminates traditional biological vulnerabilities—such as pain, exhaustion, and bleeding—when engaging reanimated undead creatures like hydras. - [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) Systemic interconnectedness resembles a house of cards bound by string: modular and resilient, yet prone to unexpected administrative ripples when introducing new features like human-sized clothing. - [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) Deception and espionage are handled via subjective 'intrigue perspectives' within individual agent memory, avoiding the memory bottlenecks of tracking absolute truth globally. - [15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=929s) A substantial portion of the game's community and financial backers functions purely as spectators, turning active players into an informal QA department that surfaces emergent stories. - [16:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1011s) Social contagion in the form of 'tantrum spirals' presents a greater existential threat to forts than external military sieges, cascading individual grief into fortress-wide collapse. - [16:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1011s) Short- and long-term memory systems permanently modify dwarven personalities based on annual trauma, though logic errors have historically triggered infinite euphoria or rumination loops. - [20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1210s) The decision to launch on Steam was prompted by Zach Adams' cancer scare and the harsh financial realities of private health insurance policies. - [21:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1318s) Tarn Adams avoids burnout across three decades of game development by treating the open-ended simulation as a direct outlet for researching personal interests, from historical legal codes to magic treatises.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=0s) The Anatomy of a Bug: Drunken Cats and Eyelids

Tarn Adams illustrates the nature of *Dwarf Fortress* development by walking through a notorious player bug report: dead cats were mysteriously piling up inside tavern locations. Adams had players send in their save files to investigate. What he uncovered was an absurd cascade of independently developed, modular simulations colliding with one another. He had recently introduced bar service to taverns, where a tavern keeper fills a mug from a barrel, brings it to a table, and hands it to a patron dwarf. However, dwarves are routinely pulled away by job assignments, and lacking any programmed sense of cleanliness, they simply pitch their mugs onto the floor. This covered the tavern floorboards in puddles of spilled alcohol.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: The Dwarf Fortress Cat Alcohol Poisoning Bug accDescr: A sequence showing how independent game systems cascaded to cause cats to die of alcohol poisoning.

subgraph BarSimulation["Tavern Dynamics"] A["Tavern keeper serves alcohol"] --> B["Dwarf drops mug on floor"] B --> C["Spilled alcohol covers floor"] end

subgraph FluidAndGrooming["Physical & Behavioral Systems"] C --> D["Cat walks through spilled alcohol"] D --> E["Fluid sticks to paws (Lava/fluid tech)"] E --> F["Cat grooms paws with tongue (Grooming tech)"] end

subgraph IngestionBug["Numeric Oversight"] F --> G["Ingested poison system triggers"] G --> H["Scale error: Cat drinks full mug per lick"] H --> I["BAC spikes: Respiratory failure & death"] end ```

The issue escalated through systems originally designed for completely different mechanics. Years earlier, while refining fluid dynamics to make lava behave realistically, Adams made it so substances on the ground stick to creature surfaces, meaning the spilled floor alcohol soaked right into the cats' paws. Later, to resolve a visual and logical absurdity where characters were cleaning splattered combat blood off their open eyes with soap, Adams created distinct eyelid body parts across the game's creature catalog. Because of the game's modular code architecture, Adams decided it would be charming to give cats an autonomous grooming mechanic where they lick their paws. Compounding this, the engine had just gained support for ingested poisons. When the cats licked their alcohol-soaked feet, the game processed it as an ingested substance.

The true bug was entirely a numeric scaling error: Adams had not anticipated paw-cleaning interacting with drinks, so every single paw lick made the cat ingest an entire dwarf-sized mug of alcohol. Their blood alcohol content skyrocketed according to seven or eight real-world symptoms of alcohol poisoning Adams had pulled straight from Wikipedia. The cats progressed directly to respiratory failure and dropped dead across tavern floors. Danny O'Dwyer laughs at the sheer absurdity of the outcome: “Like the punchline of the story is all these cats were getting drunk. But like on the way there, you made a system for cats to have fucking eyelids.” Adams confirms that every eyelid-bearing creature among their 500 cataloged species had to be accounted for in the data.

[03:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=196s) The Power of ASCII and Low-Fidelity Systems

Danny introduces the broader documentary by addressing why Noclip held back the interview for so long: traditional video game B-roll cannot easily convey what is happening on screen to an uninitiated audience. Visually, *Dwarf Fortress* presents as a dizzying sea of raw ASCII text and punctuation characters that resembles the tumbling code from *The Matrix*. Danny confesses that even after logging multiple hours of playtime and watching dozens of community tutorials, he can still only decipher about half of what is happening.

Yet, the raw text presentation is precisely what gives *Dwarf Fortress* its unmatched depth. Modern high-fidelity titles are constrained by the sheer cost of audiovisual assets. If an annual franchise like *Madden NFL* wanted to introduce something like dogs playing football, the production team would have to model, rig, texture, animate, program complex behavior routines, and record vocalizations for the animals. In *Dwarf Fortress*, features are modular data points. Tarn Adams and his brother Zach can implement a mechanic simply by coding the underlying logic and determining how it branches into the rest of the game's existing simulation rules. By working this way for roughly seventeen years, the brothers created an interconnected web of emergent narrative systems. To help illustrate the game visually, the documentary incorporates gameplay storytelling footage from community animator Kruggsmash.

[04:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=288s) The Origins: From *Drag Slay* to *Slaves to Armok*

Tarn Adams details the foundational history of Bay 12 Games, which he runs alongside his brother Zach Adams. The studio website had been online for eighteen and a half years at the time of recording, with sixteen of those spent building *Dwarf Fortress* (two years of part-time experimentation followed by fourteen years of continuous, full-time development). Their ambition to create an all-encompassing fantasy role-playing world began in their childhood:

- In elementary school, the brothers developed an early project titled *Drag Slay*. - They loved the map generation of *Civilization* and the procedural generation of traditional roguelikes, but felt unsatisfied by the scope of both genres: “There was the roguelike games, which of course we were heavily into where they make their own dungeons and so forth. But we were, we just wanted to make the whole world. Why not make the whole world?” - Around the turn of the millennium, they launched the Bay 12 website to give away their projects for free, focusing on the fifth iteration of their fantasy concept: *Slaves to Armok: God of Blood*. - *Slaves to Armok* was an unwieldy, highly ambitious 3D game designed completely from the bottom up. Characters had stance variables permitting them to walk on one hand or a single foot, accompanied by rudimentary animations. - The game simulated anatomical tissues, featuring gruesome experimental magic that could strip a target's skin off or magically displace their nose.

Because *Slaves to Armok* was an exhausting technical slog, Tarn turned to short, three-day game jams to refresh his creativity. These brief sprint projects produced titles like *WW1 Medic* and the ASCII-based tactical simulation *Liberal Crime Squad*.

[06:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=413s) The Birth of *Dwarf Fortress* and the Core Loop

*Dwarf Fortress* originally began as another minor side diversion inspired by the 1990s cross-section mining title *VGA Miner*, in which players take an elevator underground, dig out minerals, handle flooding, and use dynamite around outhouses to recover lost rings. Adams conceptualized an arcade spin-off called *Mutant Miner*, where players would dig subterranean tunnels, stumble across Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles-style mutagen canisters, and mutate additional arms to dig even faster. Realizing real-time gameplay was necessary to manage multiple workers, the concept shifted toward fantasy dwarves who dig too deep, trigger catastrophes, and leave abandoned ruins behind.

The planned design was a self-contained, two-month arcade loop: players would run a dwarven settlement until its collapse, leaving behind generated diaries and workshops; they would then send a solo adventurer into those same ruins to recover artifacts and investigate the fortress's fate. The dwarf management phase determined the maximum potential high score, and the dungeon-crawling adventurer phase determined how much of that score was realized. However, because it was a fantasy framework rendered entirely in ASCII, it bypassed the slow graphical bottlenecks of *Slaves to Armok*: “Because it's ASCII graphics, so it's so much faster to put stuff in there than I suppose like this 3D thing we were working on and yeah, so just every, every little idea that we had for the other game that we hadn't gotten to in five years, just slot it right into Dwarf Fortress.”

The project quickly swallowed their primary development efforts, growing into the colony management game it is today. In play, the user acts as an overseer rather than controlling individual dwarves directly, directing tasks like excavating the mountain, farming underground mushrooms, crafting trade goods like golden goblets, maintaining alcohol supplies, and weathering catastrophes—all set inside an entirely generated, persistent world.

[09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) Emergent Narrative and Persistent Worlds

When a player launches *Dwarf Fortress*, the game does not simply generate a static map; it runs a historical simulation that calculates hundreds of years of procedural events across the world map before play even begins. Once that history is established, a player can build multiple fortresses over time within the exact same world, allowing earlier settlements to directly influence future ones. Dwarves from an abandoned or fallen outpost can migrate to a brand-new settlement, retaining their specific identities, personal histories, and physical states—down to whether a pinky finger was lost in an earlier battle. Players can also enter the world in a single-player RPG Adventure mode, wandering through their retired fortresses to talk with former subjects who recount what they have been doing. Adams notes that while there is no scriptwriter penning bespoke dialogue, the immense layering of data makes the world feel profoundly alive.

At the very core of this architecture is the concept of emergent narrative. Rather than delivering a pre-scripted storyline, the game presents interconnected systemic threads that allow dramatic stories to coalesce organically in the player's imagination. Adams explains that game design can intentionally cultivate this phenomenon by providing rich circumstantial data for the player's brain to assemble. As Tarn Adams explains: “It's the idea that you can be playing a game without a story, but a story will still arise as you follow the different threads and pieces of information that are presented to you.” This dynamic turns the game into a mutual storytelling canvas between the simulation and the community, which has spawned countless legendary internet chronicles.

- World generation computes centuries of procedural history, establishing lineages, wars, and regional legends before the player unpauses. - Historical continuity persists across runs: past fortresses can be visited in Adventure mode, and previous citizens can migrate to new forts with their physical conditions intact. - Adams views human cognition as a natural "story-building engine" that collaborates with systemic data to produce emergent narrative.

[11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=675s) Kruggsmash and the Undead Hydra of Scorchfountain

Illustrating the wild emergent scenarios generated by these intertwined systems, footage from creator Kruggsmash showcases the perilous everyday existence of his fortress, Odlestifon (known as Scorchfountain). The settlement faces an unexpected terror: an undead seven-headed hydra named Kenam Sport Torches. The colossal, dragon-like abomination ambles across the hillside outside the fortress gates, momentarily distracted by chasing local capybaras. While this buys the settlement time, it forces an immediate lockdown, preventing any dwarves from stepping outside.

The strategic nightmare of facing an undead monster highlights the terrifying granularity of the combat engine. A standard, living hydra is already a fortress-ending threat, but players can exploit biological vulnerabilities—inflicting sufficient pain to trigger exhaustion, causing the beast to collapse, or severing veins until it bleeds out. Undead status completely strips away these bodily weaknesses: the monster does not tire, feels no pain, and has no blood to lose. Decapitation, the standard shortcut for slaying monstrosities, is rendered absurdly difficult by the fact that the creature possesses seven distinct biting heads. As Kruggsmash explains when evaluating his grim tactical options: “On the best of days, the hydra is a powerful foe, but this one's undead, which makes it a lot more dangerous.” Unable to lure the monster into an easy confrontation, the fort is left watching the undead beast prowl the surrounding hills.

- Kenam Sport Torches: an undead, seven-headed dragon-like hydra threatening the fortress of Scorchfountain (Odlestifon). - Living combat mechanics (exhaustion, pain collapse, bleeding out) cease to function against reanimated foes, eliminating standard defensive tactics. - Severing the head of a foe is the most reliable lethal strike, a tactic heavily complicated by a hydra's multiple heads.

[12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) The House of Cards: Systems, Intrigue, and Subjective Truth

Danny O'Dwyer observes that the immense volume of data feels like an emergent "house of cards," a comparison Adams initially balks at because it implies the entire structure is constantly on the verge of collapsing. Adams admits, however, that the analogy is not far off given the persistent bug reports, though he prefers picturing a house of cards bound together by intricate webs of string. The strings grant the structure surprising resilience, yet pulling on a single rogue thread can unravel the entire apparatus. Adams points to the introduction of human residency petitions: when humans were permitted to settle in dwarven fortresses, an immediate logistical failure occurred because all manufactured dwarven clothing was far too small for them. Players suddenly had to micromanage dedicated human-sized apparel lines, introducing fiddly administrative friction into a game already burdened by complex interfaces.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Subjective Intrigue Perspective Model accDescr: Diagram contrasting an objective global ledger with Dwarf Fortress's subjective mental model for intrigue and plots.

subgraph Objective["Global Ledger Approach (Rejected)"] GL["Global Objective State"] -->|"tracks all truth"| A1["Agent Knows Everything"] GL -->|"prohibitive memory cost"| A2["Memory Overhead Explodes"] end

subgraph Subjective["Intrigue Perspective (Implemented)"] V["Villain Mind"] --> IP["Intrigue Perspective"] IP --> P["Active Plot Scheme"] IP --> M["Subjective Roster of Actors"] IP --> D["Partial Info & Deceptions"] end ```

Adams highlights how the team implements modular architecture to resolve deep simulation challenges without exploding memory limits. When designing villain plots and espionage, instead of building a monolithic global tracking object that knows everything objectively, they implemented an "intrigue perspective" directly inside individual characters' minds. This mental framework tracks the plots, conspirators, and actions known specifically to that person. This subjective design natively allows for partial information, deception, and contradictory beliefs between characters while maintaining performance. As Tarn Adams notes regarding systemic psychology: “Lies are traditionally very hard to do in simulations because you have to track so much extra data about like, who knows what and who believes what, but if it's something like a plot, there's not that many plotters, right?”

When asked whether playing standard modern video games bores him given his obsession with microscopic simulation, Adams laughs off the idea. He points out that he regularly enjoys PlayStation 4 titles like hunting mechanical beasts in *Horizon Zero Dawn* without needing to worry about whether the machine's surface paint is chipping realistically.

- The interconnected systems function like cards tethered by strings: robust until a single system tension cascades into unintended consequences. - Human residents petitioning for dwarven citizenship triggered a clothing mismatch crisis, requiring dedicated human-tailored garments. - The "intrigue perspective" isolates plots and known conspirators within an individual agent's memory, sidestepping memory-heavy global ledgers. - Adams maintains a varied appetite for commercial console games, valuing them for escapist entertainment rather than deep systemic modeling.

[15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=929s) Fortress Architecture and the Player-Spectator Divide

Returning to Scorchfountain, Kruggsmash outlines the spatial design of his thriving stronghold. The entrance utilizes an engineered defensive chokepoint featuring a trade depot flanked by raiseable drawbridges capable of sealing off the subterranean world. Below the fortified surface gate, a grand central meeting hall is carved into the living rock. Off to the side, residential quarters span two separate tiers, comprising 20 uniform bedrooms furnished with a personal bed, cabinet, coffer, and statue. Flanking the living areas are crafting and agricultural facilities: looms, farmer workshops, plant stockpiles, brewing stills, and kitchens, with dedicated farming plots and seed stores excavated high above in an upper clay soil stratum to support a growing population of 13 dwarves.

Watching the widespread enthusiasm for projects like Kruggsmash's led Adams to reconsider what constitutes the *Dwarf Fortress* player base. A substantial portion of the community—including many of Bay 12 Games' Patreon supporters—does not actively play the software at all. Instead, they interact exclusively by reading write-ups, watching narrative-focused YouTube chronicles, and enjoying the bizarre tales generated by other players. Adams humorously reframes the social ecosystem: the active player base, constantly wrangling clunky interfaces, performance bottlenecks, and game-breaking bugs, functions less like an ordinary audience and more like an unpaid quality assurance crew feeding stories to the spectators. As Tarn Adams quips: “I joke sometimes that the people that watch videos and listen to people's stories and so forth are the players and the people who are actually playing are more like the QA department, right?”

- Scorchfountain layout: fortified perimeter with raised bridges, 20 fully-furnished bedrooms across two levels, subterranean food production, and surface-layer clay farming. - A significant demographic of the game's financial supporters and fans never touches the executable, consuming the game entirely through serialized content. - Adams jokingly characterizes active players as a collective QA department who endure brutal mechanics so audiences can enjoy emergent storytelling.

[16:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1011s) Tantrum Spirals, Floods, and the Eternal Drink Euphoria Bug

When discussing the many ways a fortress meets its end, Adams points to classic catastrophes that catch overseers off-guard. Accidental subterranean flooding is an omnipresent hazard requiring miners to immediately wall off breached tunnels. Trapped dwarves are frequently abandoned to drown, leaving the overseer to carve memorial slabs to prevent their vengeful ghosts from haunting the halls. External sieges by goblin armies, surface dragons, underground forgotten beasts, magma breaches, and starvation can all quickly raze a colony. Yet Adams notes that experienced players typically have tactical counter-measures for brute-force threats; the truly insidious collapse is the social "tantrum spiral." If a dwarf suffers a tragedy, their grief disturbs their kin and circle of friends. If the settlement lacks lavish dining halls or favorite foodstuffs to offset the sorrow, mounting misery spills into violent tantrums, triggering fights that traumatize bystanders and unleash an escalating chain reaction of societal ruin.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: The Tantrum Spiral Feedback Loop accDescr: Diagram illustrating how isolated dwarven misery cascades into the complete collapse of a fortress.

T["Initial Tragedy / Loss"] --> U["Dwarf Becomes Unhappy"] U -->|"insufficient luxury amenities"| G["Rage / Tantrum Triggered"] G --> V["Violence & Property Destruction"] V --> F["Friends / Relatives Traumatized"] F -->|"distress spreads"| U V -->|"social collapse"| D["Fortress Falls"] ```

Balancing this psychological engine has produced some of the game's most memorable technical blunders. Adams recalls implementing an emotional overhaul featuring approximately 120 granular emotional states, which included the mild sensation of contentment felt after drinking alcohol. A faulty logic flag caused the post-drinking state to stick permanently, rendering every dwarf blissful for the remainder of their natural life after their very first swig of booze. As Tarn Adams remembers with amusement: “And we had a flag that was wrong on that. So after your first drink, you would be euphoric for the rest of your life.”

The bug eliminated all unhappiness throughout the game until Adams discovered the mistake and restored the community's usual baseline of misery. To create richer character development, the developers also implemented short- and long-term memory architectures designed to generate distinct character arcs: significant events experienced over the course of a year transfer into long-term memory and fundamentally shift the dwarf's personality traits. However, this system introduced new behavioral quirks, as idle dwarves began obsessively ruminating on their traumatic memories in cyclical loops whenever they ran out of chores.

- Flooding accidents require sealing off sections of the fort and carving memorial slabs to lay the spirits of drowned dwarves to rest. - Tantrum spirals function as cascading social contagion: personal grief spreads through familial and friendship networks, causing violent outbreaks that topple the fortress. - A logic bug in an update featuring 120 distinct emotional states caused the post-drinking euphoria flag to become permanent, making the entire dwarven world perpetually happy until patched. - Short- and long-term memory systems track emotional traumas over annual cycles to permanently alter dwarf personalities, occasionally causing idle dwarves to dwell in cyclical rumination loops.

[19:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1175s) Emotional Trauma and Dwarven Psychology

The simulation of emotional health inside *Dwarf Fortress* operates on cascading psychological arcs where past traumas never completely vanish. As Tarn Adams explains, negative memories periodically resurface in a dwarf's mind. When a dwarf has endured a grueling or miserable life, those recollections can quickly become overwhelming as the memories trigger more and more frequently, driving them down destructive mental spirals. Tarn remarks that the virtual inhabitants ultimately lack the fortitude of real human beings, noting dryly: “I mean, these dwarves are not as resilient as they should be.”

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Dwarven Psychological Trauma Loop accDescr: Diagram illustrating how negative life events lead to memory resurfacing, emotional overwhelm, and psychological decline in Dwarf Fortress.

subgraph TraumaLoop["Mental Breakdown Cycle"] A["Adverse Life Events / Hardships"] --> B["Memories Pop into Dwarf's Mind"] B --> C{"Resilience Threshold"} C -->|"Overwhelmed"| D["Memory Triggers Accelerate"] D --> E["Psychological Downward Spiral"] E --> B end ```

[20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1210s) The Steam Version and Healthcare Realities

Tarn and his brother Zach Adams spent nearly two decades creating *Dwarf Fortress* for a dedicated community entirely free of charge. Originally, the brothers resisted monetization until players repeatedly badgered them to add a donation button to their website. That grassroots backing later expanded into a healthy Patreon following. However, the announcement of a commercial Steam release featuring integrated sprite graphics and sound was driven by serious personal circumstances rather than a desire for quick profit.

Zach had already been reliant on an expensive daily prescription for over a decade—what Tarn characterizes as a classic American healthcare dilemma. The tipping point arrived with a recent cancer scare that generated substantial medical bills. Reviewing his own health insurance policy, Tarn realized that if he had experienced the medical emergency instead of Zach, his differing coverage terms and out-of-pocket percentages would have financially wiped him out. Confronted with the harsh arithmetic of American healthcare, the brothers decided they needed a financial safety net. Tarn summarized the shift in priorities: “So we were just like, okay, it's time to, you know, enter our forties a little more responsibly.”

Even while moving into commercial distribution, Bay 12 Games remains committed to keeping the classic game completely accessible. The traditional ASCII version will continue to be free, and its feature set will be maintained in lockstep with the Steam edition. Tarn notes that the development timeline remains flexible, joking that while they hope to assemble the Steam version within a matter of months, game development reality means those months could easily stretch past a year.

- **Monetization history**: Shifted from purely free software to adding a website donation button after player pressure, followed by Patreon support, and eventually the commercial Steam release. - **Steam vs. Classic parity**: The paid Steam release provides graphical tilesets and audio, but the core engine, gameplay features, and updates will remain identical and completely free in the classic build. - **Healthcare catalyst**: Zach's ongoing expensive medications and a severe cancer scare forced a review of their private insurance policies, exposing catastrophic financial risk.

[21:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1318s) Thirty Years of Development and Endless Curiosity

When asked if he ever burns out or grows tired of working on the exact same project for decades, Tarn rejects the idea outright. Having written predecessor games like *dragslay* when he was ten years old, game development has been his central craft for thirty years, to the point where he cannot envision doing anything else. The open-ended, expansive nature of *Dwarf Fortress* ensures that work never feels repetitive, because whatever subjects capture his personal curiosity can simply be researched and converted into game systems.

Tarn shares that he has recently been immersed in 1,500-year-old Chinese legal codes to prepare for an upcoming justice and law update scheduled four or five years in the future, just as he reads treatises on occult magic systems to design the future magic release. Because any topic can be codified into mechanics, he explains that developing the simulation remains inexhaustible: “You can always find a way to put anything you're interested into a video game just by making it into a video game when you read about it or whatever. So it's, it's like if, I would have to be bored of everything.”

## Notable quotes > [15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=929s) I joke sometimes that the people that watch videos and listen to people's stories and so forth are the players and the people who are actually playing are more like the QA department, right? — Tarn Adams

> [09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) It's the idea that you can be playing a game without a story, but a story will still arise as you follow the different threads and pieces of information that are presented to you. — Tarn Adams

> [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) Lies are traditionally very hard to do in simulations because you have to track so much extra data about like, who knows what and who believes what, but if it's something like a plot, there's not that many plotters, right? — Tarn Adams

## Mentioned Dwarf Fortress, Bay 12 Games, Tarn Adams, Zach Adams, Danny O'Dwyer, Kruggsmash, Noclip, Civilization, Slaves to Armok: God of Blood, Drag Slay, WW1 Medic, Liberal Crime Squad, VGA Miner, Mutant Miner, Horizon Zero Dawn, PlayStation 4, Steam, Patreon, Wikipedia, Madden NFL, Scorchfountain (Odlestifon), Kenam Sport Torches

## Video description SUBSCRIBE for More Free Game Docs ► http://bit.ly/noclipsubscribe Become a PATRON to unlock more videos ► https://www.patreon.com/noclip

We chat to Bay 12 Games co-founder Tarn Adams about their remarkable ASCII simulation Dwarf Fortress - the game's origins, how it works, and their plans for steam. Thank you to Kruggsmash for allowing us to use his footage. Subscribe to his wonderful channel here: https://www.youtube.com/kruggsmash/

Noclip's work is 100% crowdfunded. Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/noclip Website: https://www.noclip.video Store: https://store.noclip.video Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/noclipvideo/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/noclipvideo Twitch: https://twitch.tv/noclip Podcast: https://noclippodcast.libsyn.com/ Podcast Channel: http://youtube.com/noclippodcast

Hosted & Edited by Danny O'Dwyer Filmed & Colored by Jeremy Jayne Filmed by Esteban Martinez Closed Captions: Megan Carnes

Timestamps: 0:00 - Cold Open 03:11 - Danny's Intro 04:48 - The Origins of Dwarf Fortress 08:54 - The Design of Dwarf Fortress 20:00 - Steam Version

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY)

中文简报

为应对美国医疗费用,Bay 12将《矮人要塞》推向Steam 不断上涨的处方药开销与一场癌症惊魂迫使Bay 12 Games结束长达16年的免费开发模式,推出商业化Steam版本以在美国医疗体系中求存。 塔恩·亚当斯(Tarn Adams)回顾了自己与兄弟扎克(Zach)共同开发《矮人要塞》数十年的历程,解释了放弃高保真画质如何催生出一套错综复杂、模块化的涌现式模拟系统。通过诸如酒馆猫酒精中毒、矮人终身情绪亢奋等令人捧腹的技术故障,亚当斯说明了相互独立的机制如何交织碰撞,创造出丰富的程序化叙事以及脆弱危险的心理“崩溃螺旋”。讨论还探讨了像质检测试员一样的亲手实操型玩家,与热衷于欣赏社区编年史(例如Kruggsmash大战亡灵九头蛇)的海量受众之间的划分。最后,亚当斯谈到了促成此次商业化Steam版发行的现实医疗成本与健康惊魂,同时重申他对编写全球历史和人类心理学代码的痴迷依然源源不竭。 在经历了一场癌症惊魂并面临持续的处方药费用后,Bay 12 Games推出带有像素画风和音效的Steam付费版本,主要是为了建立应对灾难性美国医疗费用的经济安全网。 (20:10) 通过依靠低保真的ASCII文本而非昂贵的3D资产管线,《矮人要塞》能够快速模块化地实现系统性规则与涌现式叙事机制,并在16年多的时间里持续拓展。 (3:16) 为了在不导致内存开销激增的情况下解决复杂的间谍活动与阴谋,该引擎选择在单个角色的心智中主观追踪图谋,而非依赖全局账本,从而自然地模拟了信息不对称与欺骗。 (12:42) Bay 12 Games在各版本之间保持完全一致的开发同步,确保在商业化Steam版本推出的同时,传统的ASCII版本仍然完全免费。 (20:10)

Reading summary

Bay 12 Games co-creator Tarn Adams explains that Dwarf Fortress achieves its unmatched simulation depth by prioritizing modular, text-based systems over high-fidelity visuals, allowing independently coded rules to produce complex emergent narratives. However, this microscopic interconnectivity also produces delicate cascades, where slight numerical errors or psychological feedback loops can unravel entire virtual societies. Low-Fidelity Architecture and Modular System Collisions (0:00) By presenting Dwarf Fortress in raw ASCII text rather than high-cost 3D graphics, Bay 12 Games bypassed the production bottlenecks that constrain conventional audiovisual game development. Tarn and Zach Adams treated every mechanic as modular data, steadily layering simulation rules into the engine over nearly two decades. Because these systems function without scripted boundaries, independently developed mechanics regularly collide in unexpected ways. This modularity was demonstrated by a notorious bug where tavern cats died en masse from alcohol poisoning. The incident stemmed from a multi-system cascade: tavern patrons spilled alcohol on the floorboards; fluid mechanics originally created for lava caused the liquid to stick to passing cats' paws; an eyelid-cleaning update led cats to lick their paws; and a newly implemented ingested-poisons mechanic interpreted each lick as consuming an entire dwarf-sized mug of alcohol. Scaled against real-world blood alcohol thresholds, the cats experienced acute respiratory failure and dropped dead across tavern floors. Procedural History and Emergent Storytelling (9:44) Before a player starts an outpost, Dwarf Fortress computes centuries of procedural history, establishing regional lineages, historical wars, and cultural legends across the map. This persistent continuity connects multiple playthroughs: abandoned fortresses can be explored in single-player Adventure mode, and former citizens can migrate into new settlements while retaining their specific identities, memories, and physical battle scars. Adams observes that human cognition naturally acts as a story-building engine, assembling this granular circumstantial data into dramatic narratives without requiring bespoke scriptwriting. This emergent depth heavily shapes tactical gameplay, as shown by community creator Kruggsmash's encounter with an undead seven-headed hydra. Standard survival tactics against living beasts—inducing pain collapse, exhaustion, or fatal blood loss—are ineffective against reanimated monsters that lack biological vulnerabilities, while multi-headed anatomy makes lethal decapitation remarkably difficult. These dramatic dynamics have cultivated a distinct community where many supporters consume the game entirely through serialized player chronicles, leading Adams to joke that active players operate like an unpaid quality assurance team generating stories for spectators. Psychological Modeling and the Fragility of Intrigue (12:42) Adams compares the game's layered data to a house of cards bound together by intricate strings: surprisingly resilient, yet prone to cascading failures whenever a single thread is pulled. To integrate complex villain plots without exhausting memory, the developers avoided a global ledger that tracks all objective truths. Instead, they implemented a subjective 'intrigue perspective' inside individual character minds, modeling deception, partial information, and contradictory beliefs by recording only what each specific agent knows. However, microscopic psychological modeling often generates catastrophic social contagion. If an aggrieved dwarf lacks offsetting luxury amenities, their sorrow can erupt into violent tantrums that traumatize bystanders, sparking an escalating chain reaction known as a tantrum spiral. Tuning this emotional engine has also produced major logic glitches: an update introducing 120 emotional states mistakenly gave dwarves permanent lifelong euphoria after their first drink of alcohol. Subsequent memory systems successfully enabled long-term personality shifts based on annual traumas, though idle dwarves occasionally fell into obsessive rumination loops. Development Longevity and the Commercial Steam Pivot (20:10) Despite spending over thirty years building games together since childhood, Tarn Adams rejects the concept of creative burnout. Because Dwarf Fortress serves as an open-ended framework where any real-world interest can be translated into mechanics—from 1,500-year-old Chinese legal codes to occult magic treatises—Adams states that he would have to become bored with everything in reality to tire of development. While Bay 12 Games operated for decades offering the title for free through donations and Patreon support, personal healthcare vulnerabilities forced a shift toward commercial distribution. Zach Adams's expensive daily prescriptions and a serious cancer scare made the brothers realize that catastrophic out-of-pocket medical bills could bankrupt them under private insurance terms. This financial risk prompted the decision to create a paid Steam release featuring graphical sprites and audio, though the developers committed to keeping the classic ASCII version free and mechanically identical. Dwarf Fortress demonstrates how relentless, modular simulation can transform raw computational data into deeply engaging emergent storytelling, even as its development history illustrates the fragile financial realities that long-term independent creators confront outside commercial publishing models.

精炼阅读摘要

在接受 Noclip 采访时,《矮人要塞》(Dwarf Fortress)创作者 Tarn Adams 阐述了游戏如何通过庞杂的模块化模拟碰撞出独一无二的涌现式叙事,并披露了这款长期坚持免费的纯 ASCII 字符实验最终走向商业化 Steam 版本的现实动因。 模块化模拟碰撞与涌现叙事机制 (0:00) Adams 以著名的“猫咪离奇酒精中毒死亡”漏洞阐释了游戏深层模拟的连锁反应:酒馆矮人将酒杯扔在地上形成酒渍,由于早年为模拟岩浆设计的“地表液体附着毛发”机制,经过的猫爪沾满了酒精;随后,为了修正此前角色睁眼用肥皂洗眼部血迹的荒唐逻辑,开发者为全图鉴 500 种生物添加了眼皮,并赋予猫咪用舌头舔爪梳理的自主行为;恰逢游戏刚刚上线摄入型毒物系统,猫咪舔爪被判定为摄入酒精。由于数值缩放遗漏,猫咪每舔一次爪子便等同于喝下一整大杯矮人麦酒,血液酒精浓度飙升引发呼吸衰竭致死。这一连锁反应展示了独立系统相互嵌套的荒诞结果。 这种底层架构构成了《矮人要塞》的核心魅力——涌现式叙事。游戏不设预设剧本,而是在开局前模拟数百年世界历史,并在持续存在的世界中保留每一处细节,旧遗址的残疾矮人甚至会携带旧伤迁移到新定居点。创作者认为人类大脑本身就是一个“故事构建引擎”,能够主动拼凑丰富的数据细节。例如在创作者 Kruggsmash 的游戏实况中,一只拥有七颗头颅、对疼痛、疲劳与失血完全免疫的亡灵九头蛇袭击要塞,迫使整个聚落进入生死闭锁,展现了严苛战斗模拟所迸发的戏剧张力。 极简ASCII架构与主观视角设计 (3:16) 面对难以直观理解的 ASCII 字符界面,Adams 解释这正是游戏能拥有无与伦比深度的关键。早年开发 3D 前作《Slaves to Armok》时,繁重的建模与动画成了产能泥潭;而转向 ASCII 字符后,任何新机制都可以剥离视听资产成本,纯粹以模块化数据逻辑的形式在几天内嵌入游戏框架。近二十年来,兄弟二人借此绕过了商业大作高昂的资产管线壁垒,自由实现各种天马行空的系统模拟。 然而,高度交织的机制也如同一座“用细绳捆绑的纸牌屋”,牵一发而动全身。例如允许人类居民申请矮人要塞居留权后,系统立刻爆发了衣服尺寸不匹配的物流灾难,迫使玩家建立独立的人类制衣线。为了在复杂社会模拟中控制内存爆炸,Adams 在间谍与阴谋系统上拒绝使用无所不知的全局账本,转而在每个角色的脑内构建主观的“阴谋视角”(intrigue perspective),仅追踪该个体知悉的密谋与同谋者。这种设计以极低算力开销自然实现了信息差、谎言与偏见模拟。 心理崩溃螺旋与“测试员”玩家生态 (16:51) 在要塞管理中,最致命的威胁往往不是外敌侵袭或地下洪水,而是社会层面的“发脾气螺旋”(tantrum spiral)。矮人的悲伤与创伤会通过亲属与社交圈呈传染性扩散,若缺乏优质餐饮和娱乐对冲,绝望会转化为暴力破坏,最终引发整个聚落的社会崩溃。心理系统的校准伴随着诸多幽默漏洞:在一次引入约 120 种情绪状态的更新中,由于布尔标记错误,矮人在喝下第一口酒后的轻微愉悦状态被锁定为永久属性,导致整个世界一度陷入永恒狂喜;而长短期记忆系统的加入,又导致无所事事的闲散矮人频繁陷入创伤记忆的反刍死循环。 这种极端的机制复杂度塑造了独特的社群结构。Adams 发现,许多经济资助者和粉丝其实从未亲自运行过游戏,而是完全通过阅读图文战报、观看实况视频来体验故事。Adams 戏称,这部分享受叙事的旁观者更像是真正的“玩家”,而那些在繁琐界面、性能瓶颈与恶性 Bug 中挣扎的活跃操作者,反而扮演着一支未领薪水、持续向外界输送故事素材的“质量保障部门”(QA)。 现实医疗危机与长线开发的驱动力 (20:10) Bay 12 Games 多年来依靠玩家捐助与 Patreon 赞助维持基本生计,并长期坚持软件完全免费。然而,兄弟二人最终决定在 Steam 发行包含图形材质与音频的商业版本,其直接推手是严酷的美国医疗体系困境。兄弟 Zach 长期依赖昂贵的每日处方药,随后的癌症排查更带来了高昂账单;Tarn 在评估自身的商业医疗保险后意识到,若同等医疗灾难降临在自己头上,现行保险的自付比例足以令其彻底破产。步入四十岁的不安全感迫使他们建立财务缓冲,但团队同时承诺,经典的 ASCII 版本将永久免费并保持与商业版功能完全同步。 谈及长达三十年的开发长跑,Adams 表示自己从未感到厌倦或职业倦怠。由于游戏的开放式架构能够吸收任何感兴趣的知识领域,他近期甚至在研读 1500 年前的中国古代法典以为未来的司法系统做准备,同时研究神秘学法术书来构建魔法机制。在他看来,只要对现实世界万物依然抱有好奇,将其转化为游戏底层模拟的过程就永远没有终点。 《矮人要塞》证明了深层算法模拟与模块化系统能够绕过现代图形工业的资产束缚,催生极具生命力的涌现叙事;而其走向 Steam 商业化的过程,亦展现了独立开发者在理想主义创作与现实生存保障之间达成的务实平衡。

Detailed notes — zh

## Background 该视频由游戏纪录片频道 Noclip(Danny O'Dwyer 主持)于 2020 年 6 月 9 日发布在 YouTube 平台上。视频简介指出,本期节目深入对话了 Bay 12 Games 的联合创始人 Tarn Adams,探讨了传奇 ASCII 模拟游戏《矮人要塞》(Dwarf Fortress)的起源、极其复杂的底层机制运作原理,以及他们计划进军 Steam 平台的未来愿景,并致谢了实况作者 Kruggsmash 提供的要塞画面素材。 ## TL;DR 访谈回顾了《矮人要塞》从早期的 3D RPG《Slaves to Armok》与小型采矿侧面项目演变为庞大模拟系统的历程,揭示了模块化逻辑与涌现式叙事如何引发猫咪酒精中毒、永生狂喜等荒诞系统 Bug。Tarn Adams 深入解析了去全局化的 NPC“阴谋视角”、记忆塑造角色弧光以及要塞因情绪雪崩和水灾而走向毁灭的艺术。此外,Tarn 坦诚透露了决定走向 Steam 商业化的核心诱因是美国高昂医疗成本与现实健康危机带来的经济重担,同时承诺经典 ASCII 版将永远免费更新。最后,他分享了自己三十年如一日将现实中的古法典与秘术知识拆解为游戏机制的创作哲学——只要对世间万物尚存好奇,就永远不会对开发《矮人要塞》感到厌倦。 ## Atmosphere & style 整场访谈散发着技术极客与独立开发者特有的真诚、温和与幽默感,既有剖析精妙系统时的会心一笑,也有面对现实生活重压时的坦率与坚韧。主持人 Danny 充满敬意的引导与 Tarn 语速飞快、举重若轻的生动拆解形成了绝妙的节奏,让抽象复杂的代码逻辑与荒诞残酷的矮人故事跃然眼前。观众在聆听过程中不仅能感受到那种几十年如一日将万物化为模拟机制的纯粹匠心,也会在听到兄弟俩因医疗保单危机而步入商业化的段落时,体会到一种极为真实、触动人心的成年人现实主义色彩。 ## Bulletin - [20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1210s) 《矮人要塞》将走向商业化并在 Steam 上发售,核心诱因是主创兄弟俩面临的沉重美国医疗保险与昂贵医药费负担,但经典的 ASCII 原版仍将永远免费且在机制上保持同步更新。 - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=0s) 游戏的涌现式叙事由极度模块化的系统驱动,任何微小的机制互动(如眼睑自洁、酒精物理溢出与毒性代谢)都可能引发像“猫舔爪子导致整杯酒精中毒暴毙”等难以预料的连锁连锁反应。 - [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) 开发团队摒弃了传统模拟游戏的全局真相设计,转而在 NPC 脑中建立主观的“阴谋视角”,通过仅记录少数策划者的信息差与欺骗机制,大幅压缩了海量认知数据的内存开销。 - [18:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1115s) 为了赋予角色真正的弧光,游戏加入了短期与长期记忆机制,但这也导致矮人极易反复反刍创伤性记忆,甚至因此诱发无法遏制的情绪崩溃螺旋。 ## Key takeaways - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=0s) 系统间的模块化化学反应产生了独特的“涌现式叙事”,猫咪因舔爪子摄入过量泼洒酒精而暴毙的著名漏洞正是眼睑清洁与代谢系统碰撞的产物。 - [03:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=196s) 低保真的 ASCII 字符界面免去了现代 3D 游戏繁琐的美术与动画负担,让开发者得以将 17 年的精力全部聚焦于底层模拟逻辑的无尽堆叠。 - [04:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=288s) 《矮人要塞》脱胎于早期 3D 项目《Slaves to Armok》的侧面小游戏《Mutant Miner》,原本仅计划开发两个月,却因极高的迭代效率成了吸收所有创意的无底洞。 - [09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) 生成的世界具有深度的历史连续性,旧要塞不会随开新局消失,其存活的矮人甚至会带着昔日的断指伤残迁移至新要塞,或者在冒险模式中接受玩家的旧址探访。 - [09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) Tarn Adams 认为玩家的大脑本身就是一台“故事构建引擎”,游戏机制的意义在于输出非预设的数据线索,让叙事在玩家心中自然生长。 - [11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=675s) 怪物的物理机制极其严谨,如 Kruggsmash 实况中面对的亡灵九头蛇,因失去流血、疲劳与疼痛等生理常数,常规战术完全失效。 - [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) 游戏的庞大逻辑宛如用细线相连的“纸牌屋”,牵一发动全身;例如允许人类入住要塞后,因体型差异导致必须繁琐下达专属订制服装指令。 - [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) “恶棍系统”采用主观认知而非全局上帝视角构建,让 NPC 可以拥有不同认知与说谎能力,兼顾了叙事复杂度与计算性能。 - [15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=929s) 受众中存在独特的断层现象:大量 Patreon 资助者与视频观众从不上手游戏,Tarn 戏称真正承受操作折磨的玩家更像游戏的“QA 质检部门”。 - [15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=929s) “情绪雪崩”是要塞从内部瓦解的核心威胁,一个矮人的不幸会迅速传染给亲友圈,最终引发公物破坏与暴力循环,导致整个群体彻底瘫痪。 - [18:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1115s) 短期与长期记忆系统的引入使矮人能够沉淀重大经历并永久改变性格,但同时也导致其极易反刍痛苦创伤,暴露出远逊于常人的心理脆弱性。 - [20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1210s) 走向商业化并非为了敛财,而是面临长期沉重的医药依赖及防范潜在医疗破产风险的现实选择;Steam 版仅增加高清精灵图与音效,核心功能与免费版一致。 - [21:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1318s) 三十年来主创从未对该项目感到厌倦,因为其包容万物的系统架构允许他将任何现实兴趣(从一千五百年前的中国古代法典到神秘学体系)直接转化为游戏机制。 ## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=0s) 猫咪醉酒与模块化模拟的代价 Tarn Adams 分享了一个经典的《矮人要塞》(Dwarf Fortress)漏洞案例,生动地展示了游戏复杂模拟系统如何产生意想不到的“紧急情况”。问题始于玩家报告酒馆里莫名其妙出现了一堆死猫。经过排查,Tarn 发现这并非简单的程序错误,而是多个相互独立的系统互动的结果。由于他在酒馆系统中加入了酒吧服务,矮人如果被召去干活,会随手将酒杯丢在地板上,导致酒液溅出。而在这个世界中,酒精不仅仅是背景装饰,它拥有物理属性。 当猫走过这些溢出的酒精时,它们的小爪子会沾上酒。随后,由于 Tarn 此前为了解决战斗中血液飞溅导致的清理逻辑问题(比如防止矮人用肥皂洗眼球的尴尬情况),他专门为生物编写了“眼睑”和“自我清洁”的模拟代码。为了让猫看起来更可爱,他允许猫舔自己的爪子。于是,猫舔食了爪子上的酒精,触发了游戏中针对摄入毒素的代谢系统。由于计算出现误差,猫一次舔食摄入的酒精量相当于“整整一杯酒”,最终导致了悲剧性的酒精中毒。 * “Their blood alcohol content shoots up to who knows what, and they didn't make it, you know? And we had like the seven or eight, we just go on Wikipedia and have like the seven or eight different symptoms of alcohol poisoning.” —— Tarn Adams * 这一事件不仅是游戏设计逻辑的体现,也成为了游戏开发中“模块化”复杂性的一个绝佳注脚:一旦为一个系统(如眼睑)添加功能,它就会立刻与世界中的其他所有机制发生化学反应。 ### [03:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=196s) ASCII 艺术与系统叙事 主持人 Danny O'Dwyer 认为《矮人要塞》是史上最有趣的电子游戏之一,但它的门槛也极高。对于未接触过的观众来说,屏幕上闪烁的 ASCII 字符几乎不可理解。然而,这种低保真度恰恰是游戏的优势所在。与现代 3D 游戏不同,如果《Madden》系列想在游戏中加入狗踢足球,开发团队必须处理模型、纹理、动画和 AI 行为等繁琐工作;而在《矮人要塞》中,功能是模块化的,Tarn 和 Zach Adams 只需实现该功能的逻辑并将其放入系统,它便会自动与其他机制交织。 这种开发方式持续了 17 年,造就了一个极其复杂的互联模拟系统,能够产生极具深度的叙事。 * “It's kind of hard to explain to a theoretical person that's like, do they know what Sim City is? Do they know what Tropico is? Do they know what these other kind of games that are vaguely like it are, right?” —— Tarn Adams ### [04:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=288s) 起源:从《Slaves to Armok》到《矮人要塞》 Tarn 讲述了 Bay 12 Games 的历史以及《矮人要塞》的诞生过程。早在开发《矮人要塞》之前,他和弟弟 Zach 就在开发一款名为《Slaves to Armok: God of Blood》的 3D RPG。那是一个充满了底层逻辑的“大型实验场”,不仅能模拟身体组织、撕裂皮肤的法术,甚至通过复杂的变量设置,能让角色实现“单手或单脚站立”等奇怪的动作。 在开发《Slaves to Armok》的过程中,他们习惯通过制作小型“三日项目”来调剂枯燥的开发节奏。最初,《矮人要塞》只是一个受《VGA Miner》启发的小型侧面项目,最初计划命名为《Mutant Miner》,核心玩法是挖矿和突变。随后,他们决定将其转向“矮人”题材,并引入了“挖掘过深导致死亡”、“生成日记”以及“冒险模式”等概念。 * “So we hadn't really seen a kind of RPG fantasy type game that really indulged in the same things that like Civilization was doing or whatever, where you can make a whole map or whatever.” —— Tarn Adams * 随着开发深入,这个原本仅计划两个月完成的“小项目”因为其 ASCII 图形处理效率极高,开始像“黑洞”一样不断吸走他们五年来未能实现的各种创意,最终演变成了今天的模样。 ```mermaid flowchart TD A["Slaves to Armok (3D RPG)"] -->|底层模拟尝试| B["侧面项目(Side Projects)"] B -->|灵感来源: VGA Miner| C["Mutant Miner (原型)"] C -->|转变主题| D["矮人要塞 (Dwarf Fortress)"] D -->|模块化合并| E["吸收了主项目的所有特性"] style D fill:#f9f,stroke:#333,stroke-width:2px accTitle: 矮人要塞的开发路径 accDescr: 矮人要塞从早期的 3D 项目和多个侧面项目演变而来,最终成为了集大成者。 ``` ### [09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) 涌现式叙事与世界的历史积淀 在《矮人要塞》(Dwarf Fortress)中,玩家启动世界生成(world generation)时,程序会运行一段历史推演算法,在专门为玩家生成的整张世界地图上铺陈出长达数百年的历史。随后,玩家可以在同一个世界中建造任意数量的要塞。旧要塞并不会随新游戏的开始而消失,它们会对新要塞产生切实的影响:之前要塞中的矮人可能会作为移民搬迁到新要塞,玩家甚至能一眼认出他们,甚至连他们当年断掉的小拇指是否完好这种身体细节都完整继承。 玩家还可以开启单人角色扮演模式(RPG / Adventure Mode),亲自造访自己退役或废弃的旧要塞,与当年的老矮人们交谈。虽然游戏并没有专业编剧去为每个矮人手写整套剧本,但这些矮人会向玩家讲述他们过往经历的种种琐事。随着系统年复一年的扩展,这种交织变得无比庞杂,并直接支撑起整款游戏的核心——涌现式叙事(emergent narrative)。在没有预设脚本的情况下,玩家只需跟随游戏中不断浮现的信息线索,故事就会自然诞生。Tarn Adams 强调说:“'Cause your own mind is a story-building engine.”(因为你自己的大脑就是一台构建故事的引擎),游戏设计机制正是为了促进这种自发体验,使游戏最终成为开发者与玩家共同书写故事的协作过程。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 矮人要塞涌现式叙事机制 accDescr: 展示从底层世界生成、持久化状态到玩家脑内构建故事的运作流程 subgraph WorldGen["底层推演:世界与历史"] A["世界生成算法<br/>(模拟数百年历史)"] --> B["持久化世界地图<br/>(保留阵营、历史事件)"] end subgraph Modes["玩家交互与世界持久化"] B --> C["要塞模式 (Fortress Mode)<br/>老矮人带伤迁移至新要塞"] B --> D["冒险模式 (Adventure Mode)<br/>探访退役旧要塞并与老矮人对话"] end subgraph Narrative["涌现式叙事产出"] C --> E["离散事件与状态数据"] D --> E E --> F["玩家大脑拼凑线索<br/>(故事构建引擎)"] F --> G["丰富的玩家社区故事<br/>(如 Kruggsmash 等实况创作)"] end ``` --- ### [11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=675s) Kruggsmash 遭遇战:不死的七头九头蛇 实况创作者 Kruggsmash 展示了他经营的要塞“灼泉”(Scorchfountain / Odlestifon)所遭遇的严峻危机。要塞外游荡着一位危险访客——名为“Kenam Sport Torches”的九头蛇(hydra),准确来说是这只拥有七个噬咬头颅的巨龙状怪物的尸体。此刻它正在山坡上追赶水豚(capybara),虽然暂时没有冲向大门,但全体矮人已经被迫全面禁止外出。 Kruggsmash 详细拆解了这只怪物的致命之处:普通九头蛇已是非常强悍的对手,但这只偏偏是亡灵(undead)。在面对常规巨兽时,击杀的最快途径通常是摧毁头颅,可九头蛇足足有七个头;如果面对的是活体九头蛇,矮人们尚且可以通过持续打击使其精疲力竭、因剧痛陷入昏厥,或者最终令其失血过多而死;然而亡灵生物既没有体力消耗,不知疼痛,也不会流血,这些常规战术在它面前彻底失效。 - 怪物名称:Kenam Sport Torches the perfect growth(已死去的亡灵九头蛇尸体)。 - 特征与难度:拥有 7 个不断噬咬的头颅,免疫疲劳、疼痛击倒及流血致死。 - 要塞现状:全体矮人龟缩在防线内部,等待它主动接近防御工事。 --- ### [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) 相互牵扯的纸牌屋:系统复杂性与阴谋视角 主持人 Danny 评论道,《矮人要塞》庞大的数据体系就像是用涌现机制搭建的一座“纸牌屋”(house of cards)。Tarn 苦笑表示这比喻听起来有点吓人,因为纸牌屋意味着一碰就倒,不过他也承认游戏中确实时刻充斥着 Bug 报告与各种乱子。他修正了这个比喻:如果说它是纸牌屋,那每张纸牌之间其实都系着细线,细线一方面维系了整体的稳定,但只要用力扯错其中一根线,整个系统也会轰然崩塌。 系统模块化带来的连带负担随处可见。例如近期游戏允许人类申请入住矮人要塞,玩家可以选择是否接纳其成为居民。然而人类入住后产生了一个尴尬问题:矮人的衣服他们根本穿不上。玩家必须在工坊里极度繁琐地单独下达指令,为体型较大的人类量身制作衣物,无形中给玩家增添了操作重担。 为了处理更复杂的逻辑,Tarn 转向更精巧的模块化设计。在开发“恶棍与反派”(villains)系统时,他在 NPC 的大脑中开辟了一块名为“阴谋视角”(intrigue perspective)的数据结构,用于独立记录该角色掌握的阴谋、参与者及局势看法: - **去全局化设计**:没有使用全局对象来保存客观真相,而是将认知放进各个 NPC 的主观头脑中。 - **信息差与欺骗机制**:两个 NPC 对同一局势可以拥有截然不同的理解,为“不完整信息”与“谎言欺诈”奠定了系统基础。Tarn Adams 直言:“Lies are traditionally very hard to do in simulations because you have to track so much extra data about like, who knows what and who believes what, but if it's something like a plot, there's not that many plotters, right?”(在模拟游戏中实现谎言向来极其困难,因为你必须追踪海量的额外数据来判断谁知道什么、谁相信什么;但如果是针对阴谋,策划者本来就没几个,这样就能把内存开销压下来)。 当 Danny 追问这种极致复杂的开发是否让 Tarn 对现代商业游戏索然无味时,Tarn 澄清自己依然会玩很多 PS4 游戏。他表示这就像听不同风格的音乐一样,玩商业大作并不是为了追求与《矮人要塞》相同的东西:“Like if I want to go hunt metal dinosaurs or whatever, and go hunt metal dinosaurs and not worry about whether or not like their paint is chipped properly and that kind of thing, right?”(如果我想去猎杀机械恐龙,我就专心去打机械恐龙,根本不会去在乎它们身上的油漆到底有没有逼真地剥落)。 --- ### [15:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=929s) Kruggsmash 的地下工程与要塞毁灭的艺术 画面切回 Kruggsmash 的要塞内部建设。灼泉要塞的防御体系初具雏形:入口处设有贸易站(trade depot)以及数道一旦拉起即可彻底封闭要塞通道的防卫吊桥,上方屋顶也接近完工。在要塞地下,开凿出了整齐的会议大厅(meeting hall),虽然桌椅尚未齐备,但居住区已经建好两层共 20 间卧室,每间均配备了床、柜子、箱子和雕像。右侧布局了织布机、农夫工坊与作物仓库,下层是酿造蒸馏间和厨房,顶部的黏土层则开辟为农田与种子库。随着新一波移民涌入,矮人总数达到 13 人,新的卧室扩建已迫在眉睫。 谈到游戏的受众时,Tarn 提出了一个耐人寻味的见解:有些人在 Patreon 上持续赞助,也热衷于观看《矮人要塞》实况与背景故事,但自己根本不上手玩。Tarn 开玩笑说,那些看视频、听故事的人更像是真正的“玩家”,而那些每天忍受操作折磨、亲自在游戏里摸爬滚打的人,本质上更像是游戏的“QA 质检部门”。 随后,Tarn 列举了要塞走向崩溃与灭亡的经典方式: 1. **大洪水(Flooding)**:最常见的毁灭方式之一。一旦挖穿水体,必须分秒必争地封死受灾区域。有时部分矮人会被活活困死在水下,玩家甚至无法回收尸体,只能尽快立石设立纪念碑(memorials),以防其亡魂化为恶灵在要塞作祟。 2. **外部围城与深层恐怖**:外部有恶龙与围城军队突袭,地下深处则有程序生成的被遗忘的野兽(forgotten beasts)、岩浆以及恶魔。对于毫无防备的新手而言,可能一只突然现身的巨型河马就能将要塞彻底夷平。 3. **情绪雪崩(Tantrum Spiral)**:这是要塞内部崩盘的核心机制。如果一小撮相互有关联的矮人遭遇不幸,其亲朋好友的心情会急剧恶化。若没有杰作级的雕花餐厅、优质美食来弥补,不满便会压倒快乐。个别矮人一旦情绪失控大发脾气、毁坏公物或殴打同伴,又会彻底激怒周围更多人,从而引发无法遏制的连锁崩溃。 --- ### [18:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1115s) 酒精永生 Bug 与记忆驱动的角色弧光 Tarn 随后分享了一个因情绪系统失误而导致的荒诞代码漏洞。在某个测试版本中,他们惊讶地发现要塞里竟然完全没有任何情绪不稳定的矮人,整个社区呈现出一片诡异的祥和。深入排查后,Tarn 找到了根本原因: - 团队曾一口气向游戏内加入了约 120 种不同的情绪反应。 - 其中一种情绪是矮人饮酒后产生的“微醺欣快感”(euphoria)。 - 由于代码中一个状态标签(flag)写错了逻辑,导致矮人在喝下人生的第一口酒之后,那股极度愉悦的欣快感就永远不会消退。这使得全要塞的矮人终其一生都处在酒精带来的极乐状态中,任何负面创伤都无法撼动他们分毫。 修复这个标志后,一切瞬间恢复了残酷常态,矮人们重新变回了那个极度易怒、随时可能暴走的群体。 为了让角色表现出更深度的成长与心理变化,开发团队近期引入了短期与长期记忆系统(short and long term memory system)。矮人的大脑会筛选出一整年内对自己刺激最强烈的重大事件,并将其固化保存至长期记忆中。这种长久记忆的留存会直接触发矮人个性的永久改变,从而在系统层面为矮人创造出真正的“角色弧光”(character arcs)。然而这套机制同样带来了新的怪异问题:当矮人无所事事闲坐发呆时,他们的大脑会周期性地循环反刍那些长期记忆中的执念与创伤。 ### [19:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1175s) 矮人的心理创伤与情绪崩溃螺旋 矮人在游戏中的心理机制极其精密,以至于过去的创伤会持续对他们产生心理反噬。Tarn Adams 描述了矮人的记忆如何冷不防地重新浮现:如果一个矮人过着糟糕惨淡的生活,那些灰暗的遭遇便会时不时窜入脑海,有时甚至彻底将他们压垮。这种反复的痛苦回忆会形成恶性循环,将矮人推向难以逆转的心理下行轨迹。Tarn Adams 带着几分无奈与幽默反思道:“And then people just aren't as resilient as regular people most of the time. I mean, these dwarves are not as resilient as they should be.”(而且大多数时候这些人根本没有正常人那么坚韧,我是说,这些矮人远没有他们本该表现出的那样坚强。)这种对心理脆弱性的真实模拟,往往会让玩家在毫无防备的情况下目睹矮人陷入彻底的疯狂与悲剧。 ### [20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1210s) 告别纯免费时代:医疗重担与走向 Steam 的商业抉择 近二十年来,Tarn Adams 与兄弟 Zach Adams 一直在为死忠玩家群体倾注心血,而最不可思议的是,《矮人要塞》(Dwarf Fortress)在极长的时间里完全免费开放。在玩家多年的再三催促下,他们才在官网上挂出了捐赠按钮,后来也建立了运转良好的 Patreon 众筹。然而,决定在 Steam 推出带有官方像素画面与配乐的商业版本,绝非为了快钱,其背后隐藏着极其现实乃至沉重的个人健康危机。Zach 一直需要依赖极其昂贵的药物,Tarn 直言不讳地指出这是典型的“美国式医疗困境”,这种情况已持续了十余年。更惊险的是不久前遭遇的一场疑似癌症的医疗惊魂,检查与应对消耗了大笔积蓄。当他们审视 Tarn 的健康保险计划时,脊背发凉地意识到不同的保单条款中那些细小的百分比与数字极其残酷。Tarn Adams 直言当时的心路历程:“And we looked at my health insurance plan and were like, you know, if that had been me instead of my brother that time then I'd have been wiped out, I mean that's just, my plan is different from his or whatever.”(我们看了我的医保方案,心想如果当时生病的是我而不是我兄弟,那我早就彻底破产被扫地出门了;我的方案和他的不一样,那些零碎的数字和报销比例根本算不过来。) 面对医疗系统的不确定性,兄弟俩意识到必须有所转变,正如 Tarn 所说,是时候“以更负责任的姿态步入四十岁”了。但即便商业化,他们也坚决不违背初心: - 经典的 ASCII 字符版本将永远保持免费提供。 - 无论未来核心机制如何更新,免费版在功能与系统层面上始终与 Steam 版保持完全同步。 - Steam 付费版的主要差异在于提供了官方集成的高清精灵图画(sprites)与全新音效音乐。 - 关于 Steam 版的具体发售日,他们并未设定死板的截止日期,仅希望在数月之内准备就绪;Tarn 调侃道,如果这个时间拖延超过一年,那也是游戏开发的常态。 ### [21:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=1318s) 三十年如一日:将世间万物化为模拟系统 当被问及常年扑在这款游戏上是否曾感到厌烦时,Tarn Adams 毫不犹豫地给出了否定回答。他从十岁起就着手制作类似《Dragslay》的项目,整整三十年的开发生涯早已成为本能,他甚至不知道自己除了做游戏还能从事什么。支撑这种无限耐心的核心在于《矮人要塞》无所不包的架构——任何他在现实中钻研的冷门领域,都可以顺理成章地拆解为游戏机制。为了规划三到五年后才会上线的法律系统更新,他正在大量研读一千五百年前的中国古代法典;如果对神秘学感兴趣,他就会翻阅秘术魔法体系的专著,为日后的魔法版本打基础。对于 Tarn 而言,这款游戏是他认知世界的终极载体,他在访谈最后精辟地总结道:“You can always find a way to put anything you're interested into a video game just by making it into a video game when you read about it or whatever. So it's, it's like if, I would have to be bored of everything.”(你总能找到办法把任何感兴趣的事物做成电子游戏,只要在阅读了解它们的同时顺手将其转化为游戏机制就行;所以,除非我对这世上的一切都感到厌倦,否则我绝不可能厌烦做这个。) ## Notable quotes > [09:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=584s) Cause your own mind is a story-building engine. — Tarn Adams > [12:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&t=762s) Lies are traditionally very hard to do in simulations because you have to track so much extra data about like, who knows what and who believes what, but if it's something like a plot, there's not that many plotters, right? — Tarn Adams ## Mentioned Tarn Adams, Zach Adams, Danny O'Dwyer, Kruggsmash, Dwarf Fortress, Bay 12 Games, Slaves to Armok: God of Blood, VGA Miner, Mutant Miner, Madden, Civilization, Sim City, Tropico, Steam, Patreon, Noclip, Dragslay, PS4 ## Video description SUBSCRIBE for More Free Game Docs ► http://bit.ly/noclipsubscribe Become a PATRON to unlock more videos ► https://www.patreon.com/noclip We chat to Bay 12 Games co-founder Tarn Adams about their remarkable ASCII simulation Dwarf Fortress - the game's origins, how it works, and their plans for steam. Thank you to Kruggsmash for allowing us to use his footage. Subscribe to his wonderful channel here: https://www.youtube.com/kruggsmash/ Noclip's work is 100% crowdfunded. Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/noclip Website: https://www.noclip.video Store: https://store.noclip.video Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/noclipvideo/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/noclipvideo Twitch: https://twitch.tv/noclip Podcast: https://noclippodcast.libsyn.com/ Podcast Channel: http://youtube.com/noclippodcast Hosted & Edited by Danny O'Dwyer Filmed & Colored by Jeremy Jayne Filmed by Esteban Martinez Closed Captions: Megan Carnes Timestamps: 0:00 - Cold Open 03:11 - Danny's Intro 04:48 - The Origins of Dwarf Fortress 08:54 - The Design of Dwarf Fortress 20:00 - Steam Version [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY)

Source quotes

[9:44] Tarn Adams: Cause your own mind is a story-building engine. [12:42] Tarn Adams: Lies are traditionally very hard to do in simulations because you have to track so much extra data about like, who knows what and who believes what, but if it's something like a plot, there's not that many plotters, right?

Source quotes

[15:29] Tarn Adams: I joke sometimes that the people that watch videos and listen to people's stories and so forth are the players and the people who are actually playing are more like the QA department, right? [9:44] Tarn Adams: It's the idea that you can be playing a game without a story, but a story will still arise as you follow the different threads and pieces of information that are presented to you. [12:42] Tarn Adams: Lies are traditionally very hard to do in simulations because you have to track so much extra data about like, who knows what and who believes what, but if it's something like a plot, there's not that many plotters, right?

Original transcript

[0:00] - Bug reports are always like this in Dwarf Fortress It's like, [0:04] I have a problem in my tavern. [0:06] There's a bunch of dead cats in there and I don't know why. [0:08] [DANNY LAUGHING] [0:10] And so they send me a save or whatever, [0:12] what we ended up discovering was that the cats-- [0:15] So I had just added this new feature in the taverns where [0:18] there's actual service at the bar, right? So the tavern keeper will [0:22] get a mug, fill it at the barrel, bring it over to the table, [0:26] hand it to a dwarf, and the dwarf will drink. But I mean, oftentimes [0:29] the dwarves were like called out to go do a job, right? [0:31] And so they'll take their mug, just pitch it on the floor, [0:34] 'cause they don't care about cleanliness. 'Cause I'd have [0:36] to teach them how to be clean, right? So they pitch it on the floor. [0:39] And of course that spills the contents onto the floor, right? [0:42] So now you got like alcohol all over the floor of the bar. [0:44] That's fine, right? That's how bars are sometimes. [0:47] But the cats would walk in there and because of this other thing we added to [0:51] make like lava more realistic or whatever the alcohol would actually get on [0:54] their little feet, right? [0:55] So the cats have this alcohol now soaked in on their little feet, [0:59] and because of this other, you know-- So there was this whole [1:02] other thing that I added back when stuff was getting like, when you'd [1:06] get like blood splattered on you during a fight or something, [1:10] we had this problem where it would be like there's blood [1:13] on your eyes or whatever, and there's blood. [1:16] And so when people would go to like clean with soap, it was really weird. [1:19] 'Cause they'd be like soaping their eyeballs or whatever. And we're like, okay, [1:22] so we just need to make eyelids work, right, so that-- [1:25] So we go to the eyelid body part, and we're like, [1:27] the eyelid just cleans like the eye. And at this time, of course, [1:32] because of how the thing works, modularly like, [1:34] well we can make cats clean themselves 'cause it's so cute, right? Like, [1:37] oh, they're just licking their paws and so forth and it's charming, right? [1:40] And so we had these cats now that are in the bar with the [1:45] alcohol soaked in their feet. And now they're licking them. [1:48] They're like licking their paws. And of course, because we had [1:52] just finished like ingested poisons not too long ago-- [1:55] DANNY: Yes, of course. [1:56] - They're now getting drunk, right? [2:00] And this is the bug. The actual bug is just, there was a numeric problem. [2:04] 'Cause I didn't expect this at all. [2:06] And so they were like drinking a whole mug every time they would lick their hand, [2:10] like an actual mug for a poor cat, and the other calculations were all [2:15] fine. So that just wasn't good for them. [2:17] Their blood alcohol content shoots up to who knows what, and they didn't [2:22] make it, you know? And we had like the seven or eight, we just go on Wikipedia [2:27] and have like the seven or eight different symptoms of alcohol poisoning. [2:31] And they eventually get to respiratory failure, and the cats respiratorily failed [2:35] and keeled over in the bar, and that was the bug report. And... [2:44] DANNY: Like the punchline of the story is all these cats were getting drunk. [2:48] But like on the way there, you made a system for cats to have fucking eyelids. [2:52] - Yeah. Yeah. Oh, everybody's got eyelids. Yeah. I mean, everybody who has them, [2:56] We actually had to go through the creature list and be like, who has eyelids, who doesn't. [3:00] We're not that careful with that because we have like 500... [3:04] [MUSIC PLAYING] [3:16] DANNY: Dwarf Fortress is one of the most interesting games ever made. [3:19] But the reason we've been sitting on this interview for so long is that our [3:22] usual trick of using gameplay B-roll to explain what the developer is talking [3:27] about doesn't really work here. You see, Dwarf Fortress looks like this. [3:32] To the average viewer, the action that's taking place here is incomprehensible. [3:36] In fact, it's only after playing hours of the game and watching dozens of YouTube [3:40] tutorials that I can decipher half of what's going on here. [3:43] - I don't even see the code. All I see is blonde, brunette, redhead. [3:48] DANNY: But the ASCII graphics are part of the reason Dwarf Fortress is so interesting. [3:52] You see, a lot of modern games are burdened by their fidelity. [3:55] If, say, Madden wanted to add a feature where dogs could play football, [3:59] they'd have to model the dogs, and texture the dogs, and change a bunch of AI and [4:03] animations, and add lots of barks. For Dwarf Fortress, features like this are [4:08] modular. Tarn and his brother, Zach, [4:10] just add it and then choose how it interacts with the rest of the system. [4:13] And that's what they've been doing for about 17 years now, and such they've [4:17] created this complex, bizarre interconnected simulation, [4:22] which is capable of producing some of the wildest emergent gameplay and [4:25] narrative in all the video games. I played Dwarf Fortress here and there, [4:29] but I mostly watch YouTube videos. In fact, to help illustrate [4:32] some of how this game works, we've gotten permission to use some [4:35] footage from my favorite Dwarf Fortress storyteller, Kruggsmash. [4:38] We have a link in the description to his channel, [4:40] which you should absolutely check out and subscribe to. But like any good story, [4:43] we have to go back to the start. So how did Dwarf Fortress come to be? [4:48] - Yeah, so my name is Tarn Adams and I'm the co-founder of Bay 12 games. [4:53] And I'm making a game called Dwarf Fortress with my brother Zach. [4:57] The website's been up for 18 and a half years. [5:00] Been working on Dwarf Fortress for 16 of those, the first two on and off, [5:04] but steady for about 14. We'd always been working on a kind [5:09] of fantasy role playing simulation type game. Even when I was like, [5:13] you know, very, very young. [5:15] I remember in elementary school we had a game called Drag Slay. [5:18] So we hadn't really seen a kind of RPG fantasy type game that [5:23] really indulged in the same things that like Civilization was doing or whatever, [5:26] where you can make a whole map or whatever. There was the rogue like games, [5:29] which of course we were heavily into where they [5:31] make their own dungeons and so forth. But we were, [5:33] we just wanted to make the whole world. Why not make the whole world? [5:36] So I created the Bay 12 website. [5:38] I like started giving away the game we were working on at the time for free. [5:41] And at that time it was like the fifth iteration of this Dray Slay game was [5:44] called Slaves to Armok: God of Blood, [5:46] this really terrible 3D game where we had changed [5:49] our philosophy\ at that point to like, oh, [5:52] let's build from the bottom up. So we were like, okay, [5:54] now we're constructing this 3D model of this person who can like walk on [5:57] one hand or one foot if you set the stance variables that way. [6:01] DANNY: Wow. [6:01] - It's got these really terrible animations, like terrible. Don't wow too much here. [6:05] And uh, but it had like tissues and so forth. [6:07] There were spells that would like strip the skin off of people or teleport [6:10] people's noses over. And the little models would move and stuff. [6:13] It was like a fun little playground, not much of a game at all. [6:16] And it took us years to get that far, 'cause we didn't know what we were doing. [6:19] But that was the game we were working on at the time. [6:22] And so we had this other kind of side of games, [6:27] that we were doing. 'Cause that's just, you know, [6:30] it's a slog where you're adding features very slowly. And so I'm like, okay, [6:34] side project, three days, side project, three days. And this is [6:37] where things like WW1 Medic, which is [6:41] one of our games that's gotten like a small amount of press. [6:44] There's Liberal Crime Squad, which is another game. That's [6:46] an ASCII game, right? Text graphics or whatever. [6:50] There are several of them. And that's what Dwarf Fortress was going to be. [6:53] Dwarf Fortress was like, you know, a few years in. We're like, [6:56] I wanted to make a game kinda like Dig Dug or something. [6:59] It was, actually there's this game called VGA Minor, VGA Minor, [7:02] which is it's got like this cross section you'd [7:05] go down in an elevator, and you dig and you get like just your minerals, [7:08] and you bring them back. And this is from like the 90s or something. [7:11] There's a little bit of flooding, if I recollect. You're supposed to put dynamite under [7:15] the outhouse to get your wedding ring out of there or something like that, [7:18] which is the plot of the game, I guess. I vaguely remember. And so we were like, [7:22] okay, let's make a game called Mutant Miner. You go down and dig just like that [7:27] except you find like Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles, munition canisters, [7:30] and you grow extra arms so you can mine faster. [7:33] And now you have progression, right? Or whatever, this is a game now. [7:35] So we're like, we're going to need to make it real time, right? [7:38] It's gotta be real time in order to deal with this, [7:41] these multiple things. So now you've got multiple little people running around, [7:44] digging and so forth, and this is still a side project. [7:47] And then we had like this, okay, we're going to make it about dwarves. [7:51] You dig. Dwarves always screw up and dig too deep. They die. [7:55] They leave behind their little workshops and things. [7:57] And we were going to like generate diaries and things like that. [8:00] And then you'd bring an adventurer in to go and find out, you know, [8:04] as many little things as they could about the game you had just played. [8:08] And so the Dwarf mode makes your maximum score [8:11] and then the adventure you send, it gets the realized portion [8:15] of the maximum score. Tight little almost arcade game, right? [8:19] We were really excited about this idea. So we scoped it out two months. [8:23] And, well, you see now that's gone. [8:26] It just started like, because it was a fantasy game. [8:29] That was probably our mistake. It started to siphon the [8:33] features from the main one, right? Because it's ASCII graphics, [8:37] so it's so much faster to put stuff in there [8:40] than I suppose like this 3D thing we were working on and yeah, [8:44] so just every, [8:45] every little idea that we had for the other game [8:49] that we hadn't gotten to in five years, just slot it right into Dwarf Fortress. [8:55] Yeah. So Dwarf Fortress is a colony management game. [9:01] I mean, it's kind of hard to explain to [9:04] a theoretical person that's like, do they know what Sim City is? [9:07] Do they know what Tropico is? [9:08] Do they know what these other kind of games that are vaguely like it are, right? [9:13] But you basically have a group of dwarves, and they mine in the mountain. [9:18] You don't control any specific dwarf, but you just kind of order their [9:23] general activities and [9:26] just make the best of things as trouble comes your way, [9:28] make sure that you have enough alcohol to drink and make sure that you're farming [9:32] mushrooms and making little golden goblets and so forth. [9:35] But when it comes to like, [9:37] what makes the game more unique is that it actually takes place [9:41] in a persistent world that the game will cook up for you each time. [9:44] So you can run a world generation, which has sort of this historical [9:50] procedure that runs out, you know, [9:51] some hundreds of years of history in a world map [9:56] that's been cooked up just for you. [9:58] And then you can play as many fortresses as you want. And the old ones will [10:02] impact the new ones and so forth. [10:04] You might have a dwarf from your old fortress come and migrate to your new [10:07] fortress, and you'll recognize them. It'll be the same dwarves, you know, [10:10] whether or not they're missing their pinky finger is intact. [10:13] You can also play a single player RPG. So you can visit your retired fortresses, [10:17] talk to your old dwarves. I mean, it's not, it's not that great, right? [10:20] We don't have like a script writer like writing like [10:22] this whole story of your dorms or whatever, but they'll talk to you about, [10:25] you know, what they've been doing and so forth. And over the years, [10:28] it's become incredibly complicated and so forth. And that, [10:31] that feeds into this whole [10:34] notion that's at the center of the game, which is emergent narrative, right? [10:38] It's the idea that you can be playing a game without a story, [10:43] but a story will still arise as you follow the [10:48] different threads and pieces of information that are presented to you. [10:52] 'Cause your own mind is a story-building engine. [10:56] And we can help that by, you know, in our [10:59] game design processes to encourage that kind of thing to happen. [11:03] So it's really sort of a collaboration with the player [11:06] to produce a bunch of stories. And you can just look up [11:08] "Dwarf Fortress stories" as a Google search, and you'll see what we mean. [11:11] [MUSIC PLAYING] [11:15] KRUGGMASH: Well, hello, you bearded bastards. [11:16] Welcome back once again to Odlestifon, the Scorchfountain. [11:22] And as you could see, we have ourselves a little guest, [11:25] a guest by the name of Kenam Sport Torches, the perfect growth, [11:30] or should I say the corpse of Kenam Sport Torches, [11:33] the hydra, a giant dragon like monster with seven biting heads, [11:38] an interesting foe to be sure, showed up just moments ago and is now just [11:43] kind of wondering around the fortress. [11:45] It caught sight of some capybara out here and it's just chasing them around the [11:48] hillside, and that's absolutely fine. But we can't go outside for the time being. [11:53] I have reason to believe this creature will be kind of dangerous. I mean, [11:57] I guess that's probably pretty obvious. On the best of days, [12:00] the hyrda is a powerful foe, but this one's undead, [12:03] which makes it a lot more dangerous. [12:05] Oftentimes the easiest way to kill a foe is by destroying their head, [12:09] but this one has a seven of them. However, if this was a living hydra, [12:12] we could potentially do enough damage to it [12:14] to exhaust it or possibly make it collapse in pain and then eventually [12:19] bleed out. But none of those are going to be factors in combating this foe. [12:23] So I'm not too sure what our plan is. [12:25] If the thing would just come to the fortress, [12:27] that might make things a little bit more straightforward, but no, [12:30] it seems to be perfectly fine just wandering around out here. Well, [12:33] that's fine. Wander our way, you bastard. And in the meantime, [12:36] we can address our bustling fortress. Ah, Scorchfountain, [12:40] what a fine place for a dwarf to call home. [12:42] DANNY: You seem to have built this just like this, it's like an emergence [12:46] like house of cards, like just so much data in this system. [12:51] - Well, it's not, a house of cards is such a scary way to say it though. [12:54] DANNY: It implies it's all gonna fall apart. May not be very flattering. [12:59] - Well, it's not untrue with, you know... [13:02] 'Cause I mean that was a bug report we were talking about there [13:05] and there are issues all the time, but yeah, no, I mean, it, [13:07] is a very intricate machine and it can have, yeah. I mean, it's [13:12] interconnections everywhere. [13:13] It'd be more like if the house of cards had little strings connecting all of the [13:16] cards too, and you know, that makes it more stable in a sense because they, [13:21] the strings hold it together. [13:23] But also if you pull the wrong string too hard or something, [13:25] you're going to go, and then we go oftentimes. [13:28] Recently we allowed humans to move into your fortress, and [13:33] they can petition for residency based on various criteria. [13:37] And you kind of decide o let them join or not. [13:39] But then the problem is like none of the clothes fit them. [13:42] And so you have to like explicitly say, I want to make some human clothing, [13:45] clothing for human sized people. As you can imagine, that's fiddly, right? [13:48] That's really fiddly. [13:50] And just another burden that the Dwarf Fortress player has to assume, [13:53] which is a problem, right? I mean, we really like to help people, [13:55] but at the same time, [13:56] we're adding more stuff. And then we're not helping people by doing so, and so [13:59] forth. But it's more about just general modularity, I think. [14:05] For instance, with villains now we have this piece of their mind, [14:08] that's called their intrigue perspective, and it holds the different plots [14:11] they have, the different actors in the plots and so forth. [14:15] And that's in their own mind as opposed to being a-- [14:19] Another way to do it would have been to make a global object outside of the [14:22] minds of people and just have more of an objective scheme. [14:26] And even if we're not doing much with it, [14:27] now the fact that two different people can have two different ideas about what's [14:31] going on is really important when you start thinking about, [14:36] you know, partial information or deceiving people, that kind of thing. [14:40] Lies are traditionally very hard to do in [14:44] simulations because you have to track so much extra data about like, [14:48] who knows what and who believes what, but if it's something like a plot, [14:52] there's not that many plotters, right? [14:54] So you can keep the memory usage down and so forth. [14:58] DANNY: Do modern games bore the shit out of you? [15:01] - Well, I mean, it's like I still listen to music, you know? [15:04] I have a, I mean, I do, I play a lot of PS4 games and stuff. [15:08] And I don't, I just don't play them for like the same reason that I play them. [15:13] Like if I want to go hunt metal dinosaurs or whatever, [15:16] and go hunt metal dinosaurs and not worry about whether or not like their paint [15:21] is chipped properly and that kind of thing, right? I don't care. Yeah. [15:25] People are allowed to have all kinds of varied interests and stuff. [15:27] So it's cool. [15:29] KRUGGSMASH: Alrighty. Now then anyways, our fortress. [15:32] Here you can see that little entryway, pretty much all set up. [15:35] We have a trade depot here, [15:36] as well as a couple of protective bridges that can be raised to protect the [15:39] entryways. The roof up top is almost all completed. [15:42] And then down in the actual fortress, you can see that the meeting. [15:45] hall is all carved out, [15:46] although we don't have any tables or chairs in place quite yet. [15:49] That's because we've been working on the bedrooms of which we have 20, and each [15:52] has his own bed, cabinet, coffer, and statue. There are two levels of them. [15:57] And then over here to the right, [15:58] you can see some looms and farmer workshops, storage for plants, underneath [16:03] we have some stills and kitchens. [16:04] And then way up top in this clay layer here, [16:07] you can see the farm plots and storage for seeds as well. [16:10] So we're looking pretty good. We have had a couple of migrant waves at this point, [16:14] so we're up to 13 dwarves. [16:16] So we're going to have to start making some more bedrooms before long, I'm sure. [16:20] TARN: Yeah. I mean, it's hard to even define what the community is, right? [16:24] If someone watches Dwarf [16:25] Fortress videos and stuff, contributes on like the Patreon, [16:29] because I have lots of people contributing that do not play. [16:33] They just love the stories and stuff. And that's [16:36] like they're part of the community, right? I mean, [16:38] I joke sometimes that the people that watch videos and listen to people's [16:41] stories and so forth are [16:43] the players and the people who are actually playing are more like the QA [16:47] department, right? [16:48] 'Cause they have to deal with so much crap. [16:51] DANNY: Can you give us some examples of like, how are ways that like, you know, [16:54] fortresses tend to just collapse? [16:57] TARN: So yeah, you can, I mean, a [17:00] very common way that fortresses collapse is flooding. Yeah. [17:03] That section of the fortress needs to be sealed off as quickly as possible. [17:07] And occasionally there's a few dwarves that are just kind of stuck in there and [17:10] you build the memorials to them so that their ghosts don't haunt the fortress. [17:14] DANNY: Of course. [17:17] -And then they're fine. You don't need to reclaim their bodies. [17:20] It helps if you can find and bury them, but sometimes it's not possible. [17:24] There are sieges and like monsters coming from [17:27] outside, dragons and so forth. [17:29] And then from below the ground or the procedurally generated forgotten beasts. [17:34] Those are not necessarily common ways [17:37] fortresses fall. If you're an experienced player, [17:40] you have a lot of tricks up your sleeve. If you're not, then sometimes you, [17:42] yeah, that's it. You know, oh, I wasn't expecting the giant like [17:45] hippopotamus to come and destroy my fortress. [17:48] Magma down below, demons down below, starvation [17:53] can kick in if you aren't watching out. And also the, in different versions, [17:58] there's a different amount of effect of a thing called a tantrum spiral where [18:02] something goes horribly wrong for a small number of dwarves, [18:05] but they're all related to each other. They're all friends. [18:08] The people that know them get disturbed by that. [18:12] And then if you don't like give them enough, you know, nice [18:16] masterpiece dining rooms and feed them the right type of food or whatever, [18:21] the grumpiness will outweigh [18:24] the happiness. And then if they start throwing fits and causing trouble, [18:28] that'll piss off more people. And then the whole thing, [18:31] just kind of spirals out of control. We're having a [18:35] issue with no unhappy dwarves at all. [18:38] And it turned out it's because when they, when we added emotions to the game, [18:41] we added like 120 different emotions to the game. [18:44] And one of them was the euphoria you feel after you've been drinking. [18:48] And we had a flag that was wrong on that. So after your first drink, [18:52] you would be euphoric for the rest of your life. [18:54] DANNY: Oh my god. [18:55] - And so they never had trouble again. [19:00] And so I fixed that and then suddenly we're back down in the, you know, [19:03] everyone's pissed off again. And we've been, we [19:06] recently introduced the kind of short and long term memory system to do like [19:10] character arcs so that you would like, remember the [19:13] strongest things that have happened to you over like a year, [19:17] and then it would save them to your long term memories. [19:19] And that also causes a personality change when it does it [19:21] so that we kind of get like actual character arcs for the dwarves. [19:26] But there's been some issues with that too, [19:29] 'cause they have this kind of thing where they remember the longterm memory like [19:32] cyclically when they're doing nothing. I mean, [19:35] it'll occasionally pop into their mind. [19:36] And if someone's had a crappy life that sometimes overwhelms them, and they [19:40] just remember these things. And they just do it more and more. So it sets them [19:44] on these arcs, right? [19:46] And then people just aren't as resilient as regular people most of the time. [19:49] I mean, these dwarves are not as resilient as they should be. [19:52] [MUSIC PLAYING] [20:10] DANNY: Tarn and Zach have been making this game for a [20:12] diehard community of players for almost two decades. [20:15] But perhaps the craziest thing about all of this is that the Dwarf Fortress is [20:18] free. After a few years of people badgering them, [20:21] they eventually put a donation button on their website and started getting [20:25] support from their community. [20:26] And in more recent years they've developed a pretty healthy Patreon. [20:30] But the reason for creating a commercial steam version complete with actual sprites [20:34] isn't just about making a quick buck. For Tarn and his brother it's a lot more personal. [20:40] - Yeah. So the... [20:42] We had been giving away the game free for a very long time. [20:46] And, just recently-- I mean my brother has always [20:50] had a, you know, he's on a medication that's expensive. [20:55] That's the kind of, yeah, typical US problem or whatever. [20:59] And that's been, you know, for more than a decade or whatever. [21:04] And then we just recently had like a kind of cancer scare thing [21:09] that ended up costing, you know, a bit of money and so forth. [21:12] And we looked at my health insurance plan and were like, you know, [21:15] if that had been me instead of my brother [21:16] that time then I'd have been wiped out, I mean that's just, [21:19] my plan is different from his or whatever. [21:21] And just the little numbers and percentages don't add up favorably or whatever, [21:24] that kind of crap. So we were just like, okay, [21:27] it's time to, [21:29] you know, enter our forties a little more responsibly. But [21:33] at the same time we wanted to keep, you know, [21:36] try and stay as close to what we were doing as we always had. [21:39] So there's always going to be a free version. Features will always be updated [21:43] and in line with the Steam version. The Steam version has a graphics and sound. [21:47] There's no specific date for the Steam release where we're hoping to get it [21:52] together in X number of months. [21:54] And if X is longer than 12 than a year and months or whatever, [21:57] it's game development, [21:58] DANNY: You probably get asked this question all the time, but are you, [22:02] do you ever get sick of working on it, or is it just always entertaining? [22:05] - No. I mean, like I said, [22:07] I was working on Drag Slay when I was 10 years old and that's 30 years. I mean, [22:11] I didn't even know what else I'd do. Because the way the game is, [22:16] there's always something new to work on, right? I mean, [22:18] I was reading like Chinese law codes from 1500 years ago [22:25] for the law update that's coming like four years down the line or [22:28] five years down the line or something. And you know, if I want to read about that, [22:33] I can do that. If I want to read books about like occult magic systems for [22:37] the magic release I can read about that. [22:39] You can always find a way to put anything you're interested into a video game [22:43] just by making it into a video game when you read about it or whatever. So it's, [22:47] it's like if, I would have to be bored of everything. [22:53] [MUSIC PLAYING]